Starts tomorrow.
Prior to the Munster game really thought this could be Leinster's year but after the Connacht debacle, not a chance.
Really can't see beyond Munster and begrudgedly (as is my Irish right) I am really admiring their direction, awesome defence with 15 man rugby in attack, if they sustain this they will be unbeatable. And Keith Earls, wow!!!! This kid is going to be a super-star, reminds me of an Irish Christian Cullen.
Stade Francais would be outside tip, relative easy group and are electric in France at the moment. Can't wait.
Heineken Cup Round 1 - Friday Teams
POOL 1
Munster: K Earls; D Howlett, R Tipoki, L Mafi, I Dowling; R O'Gara, P Stringer; M Horan, J Flannery, J Hayes, D O'Callaghan, P O'Connell (capt), A Quinlan, D Wallace, J Melck.
Replacements: D Fogarty, F Pucciariello, D Ryan, J O'Sullivan, M Prendergast, P Warwick, B Murphy
Fancy Stade Francais to win it outright and hae done this accum to win their pools: Stade Francais, Toulouse, Wasps and Gloucester
Whats the background to this fella Earls dinny?
Never heard his name even mentioned
For a team with ambitions of winning a Heineken Cup, Leinster were absolutely brutal last Sunday evening in the Sportsground. I actually thought we would be doing well to get within 20 points based on our recent performances but I could not believe how rudderless that Leinster team looked. Sexton was poor at OH and to be honest, Keatley looked the much more accomplished player. Contempomi only seemed to be going through the motions, much to Luke Fitzgeralds detriminent, and Leo Cullen's only meaningful contribution was to nail Keatley with an elbow after Mike McCarthy's try. Need to step it up a couple of gears for their bogey side this weekend or it could all go pear shaped very quickly........................
He's from good Limerick/Tipperary stock, his Dad called Ger Earls, played for Young Munster and Munster back in the day. He's just breaking onto the team, but has been sensational in his first few games. Very dangerous on the counter, and runs a great line. He's very fond of the chip and chase, though, which might burn him at some stage. I still have a bit of doubt about him under the high ball, but he does look like the real deal.
That's a strong Munster team, roll on tomorrow!!
Is Denis Hurley injured or out of favour? WOuld Earls be ahead of himin any case?
He seems a fair size for a young back.
Hurley has suffered a savage loss of confidence since his poor HEC final. He can't catch a cold at this stage. But Keith Earls is a far better prospect in any case.
Earls has been a prodigy for a numbers of years but as is the Munster way he was blooded in the AIL first for a couple of seasons. The new law ammedments suit him to a tee.
Lots of promising Irish backs coming through. Also watch for a kid called Felix Jones from Leinster, very close to breaking into the Leinster set-up. Although the most promising kid in Leinster is a forward from Tullow in Carlow, Sean O'Brien.
I think Leinster will win in Edinburgh but Sexton is suffering a little from 2nd season itis. Will do well to get out of the group though.
Can anyone explain these ELVs?
If Clermont Auvergne get through the group stages I find it hard to see them stopped!
the main ones-
if you receive the ball in your own 22 from a player outside the 22, you cant kick directly into touch anymore
you can throw a quick lineout to a team-mate who is standing behing behind you, doesnt have to straight anymore
at scrum time, the defence has to be 5 metres behind the back foot of the last man in the scrum.
there are a few offences which you previously got penalties before, you only get a free kick now. not sure what these offences are.
you can collapse a maul without conceding a penalty.
you can put as many men in a line out as you want. before, if the opposition had only 3 in a lineout, thats all you could have too.
clear as mud ???
anyone know if theres munster tickets available for tomorrow night? munster are worth a few bob tomorrow as they will go all out to start with a win in the revamped thomond
Quoteat scrum time,
???
would that not be a big ask after rucktime so soon after kick off time.
go on the Ospreys a team who play to the spirit of the game but munster will probably win by boring the f**k out of every one again. though if the ref ref the ELVs correctly and make teams play rugby thatll be the end of that band wagon
Quote from: rosnarun on October 09, 2008, 10:21:06 PM
Quoteat scrum time,
???
would that not be a big ask after rucktime so soon after kick off time.
go on the Ospreys a team who play to the spirit of the game but munster will probably win by boring the f**k out of every one again. though if the ref ref the ELVs correctly and make teams play rugby thatll be the end of that band wagon
no at scrum time is correct
Quoteanyone know if theres munster tickets available for tomorrow night?
Yes there should be plenty around , the corporates have given back loads and weather will be shite, am going myself thankfully will be a good evening's craic.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 09, 2008, 05:39:31 PM
He's from good Limerick/Tipperary stock, his Dad called Ger Earls, played for Young Munster and Munster back in the day. He's just breaking onto the team, but has been sensational in his first few games. Very dangerous on the counter, and runs a great line. He's very fond of the chip and chase, though, which might burn him at some stage. I still have a bit of doubt about him under the high ball, but he does look like the real deal.
That's a strong Munster team, roll on tomorrow!!
Why is an Offaly person supporting Munster?
Just to get the annual AZ has to explain his rugby allegiances out of the way ;)
Don't be getting AZ started, deep down he is just ashamed to be a Ladyboy supporter !!!
Quote from: rosnarun on October 09, 2008, 10:21:06 PM
Quoteat scrum time,
???
would that not be a big ask after rucktime so soon after kick off time.
go on the Ospreys a team who play to the spirit of the game but munster will probably win by boring the f**k out of every one again. though if the ref ref the ELVs correctly and make teams play rugby thatll be the end of that band wagon
That shows how much rugby you watch rosnarun. I suppose give a dog a name and all that, but Munster's game is completely different over the past 2-3 years, and this year looks like moving on again. Even Dinny is praising it for Jaysus sake :D
And KM, I would be ashamed to be a Ladyboy supporter were I, in fact, a Ladyboy supporter :D What time you heading up at? Traffic was bananas last weekend, so I'm leaving work about 4.30, heading into Boh's bar behind the West Stand. See you for a pint?
Half time. Munster 10, Montauban 3
Fulltime. Munster 19, Montauban 17.
That was hard to watch... Not for me though as I had took the french side and Treviso plus the points in the handicaps
8)
Stringer has fairly fallen down the pecking order and rightly so.........jeez he was rubbish last night. You could clearly see O'Gara muttering away to himself after some of the passes he received (or didn't receive in a lot of cases!). The lad Earls seemed to be trying too hard..........poor performance all round.
Munster played for the bonus from the start, very un-Munster like. Would consider that a point dropped rather than 4 gained.
What I can't understand is the way some of these French sides play weakened sides. Maybe you could understand it towards the end once a chance of qualification but, I assume they bust a gut to get into one of the qualification places and then to play a weakened team seems like a waste of all that effort. Which French sides constantly take it seriously? Stade, Biarraitz, Toulouse, Perpignan?
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 11, 2008, 01:10:56 PM
What I can't understand is the way some of these French sides play weakened sides. Maybe you could understand it towards the end once a chance of qualification but, I assume they bust a gut to get into one of the qualification places and then to play a weakened team seems like a waste of all that effort. Which French sides constantly take it seriously? Stade, Biarraitz, Toulouse, Perpignan?
To them the French Championnat is just more prestigious. It's a bit like the EPL soccer teams sending out slightly weakened sides in the FA Cup to save players for the League.
Some French sides don't have the strenght on dept to compete on two fronts, the Top 14 is a savage competition minimum 26 games. Throw in Internationals and Europe and some French players are looking at nearly 40 games, no rugby player could play that amount of games.
Great win for Leinster, scrappy performance which I put down to an awful ref but to get 5 points off their bogey team is a fantastic achievement.
Sale away for Munster has now become a must win, great bloody competition.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 11, 2008, 03:35:27 PM
Some French sides don't have the strenght on dept to compete on two fronts, the Top 14 is a savage competition minimum 26 games. Throw in Internationals and Europe and some French players are looking at nearly 40 games, no rugby player could play that amount of games.
Great win for Leinster, scrappy performance which I put down to an awful ref but to get 5 points off their bogey team is a fantastic achievement.
Sale away for Munster has now become a must win, great bloody competition.
Dinny how does the number of games in the French Championship compare with the Guinness Premiership? The resting players seems to be only a French phenoneum rather than English?
8 teams qualifying from 24 does make it fiercely competitive right enough.
Great win for Leinster, need to make it count with a win over Wasps next week tho!
QuoteDinny how does the number of games in the French Championship compare with the Guinness Premiership? The resting players seems to be only a French phenoneum rather than English?
The Guinness Premiership is a minimum 22 game season and in fairness the Premiership cubs don't rotate unless in the latter rounds when they can't qualify. Personnally I would rate the Top 14 the hardest competition followed by the GP and then the HEC.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 11, 2008, 03:35:27 PM
Some French sides don't have the strenght on dept to compete on two fronts, the Top 14 is a savage competition minimum 26 games. Throw in Internationals and Europe and some French players are looking at nearly 40 games, no rugby player could play that amount of games.
Great win for Leinster, scrappy performance which I put down to an awful ref but to get 5 points off their bogey team is a fantastic achievement.
Sale away for Munster has now become a must win, great bloody competition.
brilliant competition. best about in any sport. i have a sore ass though cause i have watched all 6 live games !! cant wait until next weekend. Leinster Wasps Sat evening the pick.
Another thrilling finish in Toulouse. If ever someone snatched defeat from the jaws of victory it was Bath. Skrela hit a last kick penalty to win by two after Bath were turned over clinging on to a lead with 7 seconds of time remaining.
i went for bath to win their group in my accumulator >:(
i was screaming at the tele to kick the fuckin thing into touch
ah well, like the ospreys, who i also have to win their group, a losing bonus point away from home against the top side isnt the worst
Great win for Leinster, but what a win for Sale in Clermont? Jaysus. It's almost must win for Munster now in Edgely park next week.
Munster were very poor on Friday night, and steeped to get away with it. Dinny is spot on, completely un-?Munster like. Win the game first, then win the bonus point. You can't do it the other way around. On a wet evening like that, kicking for corners and contesting their lineout was the way forward, and then when you get on top, let Howlett, Mafi, Tipoki and Earls try to find gaps. Very odd.
I was uneasy when I heard McGahan talking about bonus points during the week, that's very un Munster like. Hopefully he's learnt his lesson, and we'll hear all about how brilliant Sale are before next Sunday. Thomond Park looks great, but there was a general air of disrespect to the Montauban team. Not in terms of booing or anything, that was as good as ever, but in terms of not being fired up for the game in the crowd. An expected win almost. The empty seats reflected that as well I'd say. All in all a very strange and 'un-HEC' type night in Limerick. Felt more like Magners League.
Well done to Leinster too.
anyone hear Mark Robson tonight on the commentary of the Leinster game ?
after Rob Kearneys kick on for O'Driscolls first try, Will Greenwood said " it looked like Heskey to Owen, im struggling to think of any Irish players here, help me out".
What did Robson say, "DAVID HEALEY". in the name of fcuk. If Tony F was watching he would have been throwing stuff t the TV !!
PS Some performance, real contenders now.
QuotePosted by: Hoof Hearted
Insert Quote
anyone hear Mark Robson tonight on the commentary of the Leinster game ?
after Rob Kearneys kick on for O'Driscolls first try, Will Greenwood said " it looked like Heskey to Owen, im struggling to think of any Irish players here, help me out".
What did Robson say, "DAVID HEALEY". in the name of fcuk. If Tony F was watching he would have been throwing stuff t the TV !!
Yeah unfortunately i heard it. Jesus it was cringeworthy. I'm surprised that considering Greenwood made the comparison with Heskey and Owen, that Robson didnt throw in Lafferty with Healy!
In my opinion superior to Champions League, it is dog eat dog from day one of competition. Stade Francais have impressed me the most so far, though Leinster on last nights performance are a close second
Super win for Leinter lastnight, still early day but good signs for both Leinster and Ireland.
Munster and Sale 16-16. Sounds like O'Gara just missed a sitter - 12 minutes left to play.
Super weekend for the two big boys. Leinster looked imperious in swatting aside Wasps yesterday, and Munster dug deep for a fantastic away win against the Premiership leaders. When O'Gara missed the penalty after Sale drew level, I was a bit nervous, but fair play they picked it up again and got the win. Limiting Sale to not getting a losing bonus point was great as well. After Sale's demolition job of Clermont Auvergne last weekend in France, I was very nervous about this game, but Munster looked much better after a flat outing last weekend.
Leinster and Munster are in good shape now. Must keep it going though. Clermont away will still be rough, because they'll fancy they are right back in it with the result today.
Was O'Garas kick that rolled over the top of the post with the scores level actually a score it seemed to deflect off the top of the post and hit the target. What about Marcus Horans intercepted pass tat helped save the game?
brilliant stuff by the 2 irish sides this weekend. I have my tickets for Murrayfield booked 5 months ago and to have 1 or maybe 2 irish teams there would be fantastic
lets hope now with Kidney in charge, this form can be transferred to Ireland and the Autumn Internationals
Great win for Leinster , 10 points after 2 games is far better than i had hoped
Does anyone know the reason for Henson's much publicised recent disciplining?
QuoteDoes anyone know the reason for Henson's much publicised recent disciplining?
Got a bollicking of the coaches for his poor performance, didn't like that and took unauthorised leave. Interestingly enough it was his team-mates that decided the suspension although due to injuries he had to be recalled for Saturday's game.
Leinster were very good on Saturday and should win the pool now, however this is Leinster expect an implosion in the quarter-final.
Depends on the draw probably. i think leinster can be a bit like armagh in that they take their eye off the ball against teams that don't motivate them automatically. if leinster could draw premeirship sides til the final they could with it
Interesting observation, could will be right although Leinster rugby is better to look at than Armagh football :P
Well they certainly have more money!
the big question will be - Where will the possible Leinster v Munster semi - final take place?
It would be some same to send 80k Irishmen to Cardiff!!!!!
howll things pan out for the irish sides this weekend? Just home from ravenhill there. great win for Ulster. Humphreys Og very im pressive at 10 and is surely worth a look at being ROG back up for the 6N. Not in love with Sexton of leinster. Diack and Boss when introduced were very good!
What was the score?
Jesus, Munster pulled it out of the fire this evening. 13-11 down with less than 5 minutes left but hit back with two late tries to win 23-13. They have an incredible "never say die" attitude.
Great game! Is that them through now?
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 13, 2008, 07:45:18 PM
Great game! Is that them through now?
Still very tight Lecale. They're only 2 points ahead of Sale and 5 ahead of Clermont so defeat at home to Sale or away to Mountaban would make things very tight.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on December 13, 2008, 07:56:36 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 13, 2008, 07:45:18 PM
Great game! Is that them through now?
Still very tight Lecale. They're only 2 points ahead of Sale and 5 ahead of Clermont so defeat at home to Sale or away to Mountaban would make things very tight.
Montauban beat Sale this evening in France so you would think that its job on if they beat Sale in Thomond after Xmas. Clermont are a savage side though.....14 men for the majority to the game in Thomond, plus missing a class winger like Rougerie, and you would expect a serious pasting. Cudmore, the lad dishing out the haymakers, has an interesting past - a "debt collecter" for a drug dealer earlier in life in British Columbia........
Well done too ROG on the 1000 points . That is some total and he is still going. Leinster should be made to sit down and watch replays on Munster's match yesterday until they learn how to grind out results .
That was very uncomfortable. This assumption that Munster will always pull it out of the fire is very dangerous.
On Saturday, for about 60 minutes, Munster were outfought, out thought and out played by a very dangerous Clermont team. They deserved to win the game, no doubt about it. They bossed Munster around, and Munster are struggling with the ELV about kicking for touch. It's no longer easy to play the possession game, because now a pass back from outside the 22 to O'Gara cannot go directly into touch. This is leading to a huge amount of kicks straight down the field from defensive positions, and these kicks are not being very well executed.
Munster will have to up it by 20-30% in terms of performance level to even get out of the pool, never mind do anything in the knockout stages.
However, they are a fantastic bunch in terms of honest endevour and hard work. They tackled like demons on Saturday, under a right old onslaught, and then to somehow pick themselves up and take advantage when Clermont finally tired under their own immense workrate was just brilliant.
They are old dogs for the hard road, no doubt about it, but some young pup will beat them unless the wrinkles are ironed out. Monteban's win over Sale should serve as a warning. Sale is a must win game, and it won't be easy either.
How come superman wasn't red carded on Saturday?
Good point turk. I can only assume that the ref and touchjudge saw Cudmores lunacy, and saw O'Connell not swinging back initially, until Cudmore hit him again, right in front of the touchjudge.
O'Connell threw several digs when he wrestled him to the ground, and if they were caught, I think O'Connell would be sent off as well. I just hope nothing comes out of it this week.
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 15, 2008, 12:55:45 PM
That was very uncomfortable. This assumption that Munster will always pull it out of the fire is very dangerous.
At least it is reassuring to know that they don't accept their apparent fate and will push methodically and with determination for a winner, abstaining from the panic that afflicts some other well known province from time to time.
That's certainly true. And there have been many, many times when they have beaten a better team. Saturday was another.
munster looking good. Thomond park looks in some order
Munster are awesome.
complete humilitation of sale. 37-14. a win in montabaun will should give them a home q f
Munster absolutely superb tonight. Totally overwhelmed Sale all over the pitch. They are guaranteed top spot in this group now.
Munster really have learned from Wasps and Leicester, they play right on the edge giving away heaps of penalties, very cynical but it's what you have to do. Some result some performance. Hope Leinster can match that tomorrow.
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 16, 2009, 10:35:30 PM
What an anti-Munster commentary on Sky by former Ulster Unionist councillor and Ulster player Tyrone Howe!
I was shocked and taken aback at that really - is there an election coming up that I don't know about.
Quote from: orangeman on January 16, 2009, 10:52:37 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 16, 2009, 10:35:30 PM
What an anti-Munster commentary on Sky by former Ulster Unionist councillor and Ulster player Tyrone Howe!
I was shocked and taken aback at that really - is there an election coming up that I don't know about.
What did Tyrone say?
Is that him co commentating today!
Ulster have started well, lead Harlequins 10 -0 20 mins gone!
aye thats tyrone howe commentating today.ulster 16 to nil up here at half time but very strong wind for harlequins in the 2nd half.im gona look about a price here for 'quins to come back and win it!!
Harlequins dont look that good but!
Crazy decision!! He has to be injured!
Have they done it!!! :D
Fair play to them, dont watch much rugby but have to say have enjoyed this game!
Malone was a great replacement!
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 17, 2009, 03:23:48 PM
Quins falling apart!
Dean Richards deserves any beating given to him on a rugby pitch!
Maybe this is the reason for me enjoying it, never liked him as a player!
Leinster are on their usual implosion ::)
Quote from: Tankie on January 17, 2009, 05:55:38 PM
Leinster are on their usual implosion ::)
Not a good start. They need to get some terriority and slow the game down
Some beating for the west today.
Leinster are struggling to get a foothold in this game. Wasps are imposing themselves on them
A strange call by the ref. A very soft yellow card.
Glorious bonus point from Leinster, magnificent performance to go the English Champions and to lose by only 7.
Anyway terrible performance in the non-Munster world and Leinster have serious issues at half-back, Whitaker is too slow and Nacewa is not a controlling 10 but will take the losing bonus and group is in our hands.
Don't know what Wasps were thinking in the last couple of minutes, when they elected to kick for points rather than go for the corner and then the try. Good result for Leinster. Kearney was immense.
Another good result for Ulster earlier on. Miserable conditions. They had to evacuate the temporary stand half way through the second half, because they feared it was about to blow away!
Leinster were weak at 8/9/10 today, but considering they were playing with a patchwork front row, it was far from a disaster. They showed plenty of character when in previous times they would have rolled over.
Why did they not play Contempomi at 10 in the 2nd half? Baffling.
Quote from: ONeill on January 17, 2009, 05:59:27 PM
Some beating for the west today.
Ya we knew it would be tough but that was some hammering
In fairness Bradleys focus is more on topping ulster in the magners league, which is looking good with the form they are in
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on January 18, 2009, 02:22:56 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 17, 2009, 05:59:27 PM
Some beating for the west today.
Ya we knew it would be tough but that was some hammering
In fairness Bradleys focus is more on topping ulster in the magners league, which is looking good with the form they are in
Can't see that happening at all. Ulster look to be getting their act together with recent wins over Munster and Harlequins. There's also quite a large points difference between them already.
Magners League table
10 January 2009 21:19
Team P W D L F A BP PTS
1 Munster 10 7 0 3 207 166 3 31
2 Ospreys 10 6 0 4 222 155 5 29
3 Leinster 10 6 1 3 214 151 3 29
4 Scarlets 10 6 0 4 215 192 2 26
5 Edinburgh 10 5 0 5 210 184 6 26
6 Glasgow 10 5 0 5 183 183 5 25
7 Ulster 10 4 0 6 191 172 6 22
8 Newport-Gwent D'gons 10 4 0 6 175 235 5 21
9 Cardiff Blues 10 3 1 6 186 202 3 17
10 Connacht 10 3 0 7 111 274 1 13
Have to agree with screenexile, cant see the connacht challenge here !
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on January 18, 2009, 02:22:56 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 17, 2009, 05:59:27 PM
Some beating for the west today.
Ya we knew it would be tough but that was some hammering
In fairness Bradleys focus is more on topping ulster in the magners league, which is looking good with the form they are in
Played a second string side yesterday. Still a very bad beating mind. Concentrating more on the Dax game next week rather than the ML I would say.
Sorry that should have read which isn't looking good the form Ulster are in
If the final games results go right today Leinster may only need a win to qualify next week as 20points could see you you through as best runner up. If leinster and Wasps do both finish on 21points it looks like both will go throught with Leinster topping the group but they should know exactly what is required on Sunday before kick off!
1 round to go and so many teams still in with a chance. Its a super competitive competition which is great to watch.
Great result for cardiff, sheer daftness from their winger james in headbutting the gloucester hooker, even though he went down like he was shot
great finish from cardiff
Could be a Munster v Leinster Q/F if leinster get 5points the way things are shaping up. its gonna be a pain in the ass getting tickets as it will have to be played in Thomand or outside the country!
If it's Munster v Leinster, it will be in Thomond Park, or at least it should be assuming Munster have home advantage. (Big assumption with Montauban upcoming). Thomond Park holds 26k, so it should be ok for it, given that Munster played the Q/F in Kingsholm last year.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 19, 2009, 03:24:23 PM
If it's Munster v Leinster, it will be in Thomond Park, or at least it should be assuming Munster have home advantage. (Big assumption with Montauban upcoming). Thomond Park holds 26k, so it should be ok for it, given that Munster played the Q/F in Kingsholm last year.
Well it would be the IRFU's decision, i'm sure if they could get Croker thats where it would be, i cant see them taking it outside the country tho if it was to happen. Where with a Semi-final they would have no choice if Croker was not available!
Croker only available for Internationals , so no HC games will be played there. Savage performance by Munster on Friday night, setup nicely for a home 1/4 if they can do the business in France will be tough but its in their hands now.
The 40:1 from Ladbrokes on O'Connells first try was warmly welcomed too in these cold & hard economic times :)
Quote from: Kerry Mike on January 19, 2009, 07:39:12 PM
Croker only available for Internationals , so no HC games will be played there. Savage performance by Munster on Friday night, setup nicely for a home 1/4 if they can do the business in France will be tough but its in their hands now.
The 40:1 from Ladbrokes on O'Connells first try was warmly welcomed too in these cold & hard economic times :)
Doesnt really make sense when you look at it now that Croker cannot host this game (if it was to happen) but there you go!
I dont think Munster have much to worry about this weekend, where as I could see Leinster losing!!!!
Quote from: Tankie on January 20, 2009, 12:33:37 AM
Quote from: Kerry Mike on January 19, 2009, 07:39:12 PM
Croker only available for Internationals , so no HC games will be played there. Savage performance by Munster on Friday night, setup nicely for a home 1/4 if they can do the business in France will be tough but its in their hands now.
The 40:1 from Ladbrokes on O'Connells first try was warmly welcomed too in these cold & hard economic times :)
Doesnt really make sense when you look at it now that Croker cannot host this game (if it was to happen) but there you go!
I dont think Munster have much to worry about this weekend, where as I could see Leinster losing!!!!
It makes sense to Munster. In this hypothetical situation, why would you take the game away from Thomond Park, where Munster would have home advantage? What would be the point in building this new stadium that comfortably meets the HEC Q/F attendance requirements, only to give any advantage away when you play your biggest rivals? That would stick in my craw.
The game would be in Turnip Park, why would Munster give up home advantage, the IRFU would not dictate otherwise. Anyway lot of rugby before that happens, I can see Munster losing in France and although I can Leinster winning I think they won't get the bonus but a win should get them at least a best loser place which wouldn't be too bad, an away quarter to Cardiff is a better option that Turnip Park.
Turnip Park ? :D I wouldn't be overly confident in Montauban either Dinny, certainly not overly confident about getting 4 tries. As for Leinster, I'm sure they'll handle Edinburgh handily enough. It could end up with Leinster at home :D (Where would that be played?)
Anyway, I heard a much better description of Leinster a couple of weeks ago. I was always uncomfortable calling them the Ladyboys, it was a bit OTT. But from now on I will happily refer to them as the Latte Boys.
Edinburgh is a tough ask. surely contepomi will have to play at stand off?
As a long time admirer of munster and the munstr way i'm thinking of jumping ship. as muh as i admire the ability and charachter of men like o'connell and wallace the media love in is sickening me. maybe i just like to be in the underdog's camp. feck it, part of me wants armagh to take micko's advice and to dissapear back to the wilderness at a faster rate than they currently are...
I can see where you are coming from Uladh. There was a good article in the paper (may have been the Tribune) last week headlined. 'Leinster's greatest crime is that they are not Munster'. In other words they are being completely given a hard time in the media, compared to the soft soap that Munster get when they have a bad performance. Munster get criticised, but it's much more analytical in terms of what's going on. Leinster are criticised for lack of leadership, heart, spirit etc etc. And it gets personal too. I think too many people in the Irish media try to hide it, but they don't really like the likes of Contempomi etc.
There's no doubt that Munster are a great team at competing and now winning trophies, and have been for a few years. There's also no doubt that a good atmosphere at Thomond Park is something to be experienced, but make no mistake, as this recession hits, and when Munster hit the inevitable wall in terms of performance and achievement, the Munster phenomonen will drift away. I just hope that when it does we have a core of 10-15k that will still go to the games and cheer on Munster, with the fervour that they have now. I think that's what you will see, and the media will get off the bandwagon completely then.
Munster are a great story. The teams trials, tribulations and finally, triumphs. The heartbraeaking stories, interspersed with glorious victories agains the odds, and seismic moments like Gloucester, Sale, Saracens, Toulouse etc. The carnival that follows them in terms of fans. The aura of Thomond Park. All of that stuff makes a great story, but a lot of what is written is just like a spin off series from that story. The bare truth is that Munster fans, and bandwagonners, have been very lucky to have a team that inspires all of us, but that team will not be there forever. What happens after that will be the real test of the 'Munster' that the media has portrayed.
Is there any truth in the english/scottish/welsh accusations that munster and leinster enjoy an unfair advantage in terms of their geographical areas of pull and therefore the financial muscle?
i don't know what ulster's excuse is
Well the Welsh and Scottish RFUs have also set up regional teams. Glasgow and Edinburgh are not the Glasgows and Edinburghs of 20 years ago, and Welsh rugby has done the same. I suppose those countries wouldn't have the same regional identity that is such a part of Ireland (promoted by the GAA!!).
In terms of finance, I'm not sure of the numbers, but English clubs were paying big money, and French clubs crazy money, and I don't think Irish contracts apart from the likes of O'Discoll, O'Connell, etc are in the hundreds of thousands or anything like that. In terms of demographics, I suppose Munster would have a million or so people in it's catchment area, whereas Leinster slightly more than that. The English Clubs like Sale and 'Quins and Wasps and Leicester would have more than that. The West Country region in England (Bristol, Gloucester, Bath) would probably be weakest in terms of catchment area because they are relatively small cities, and the population centres around them would be split as all clubs are close enough together.
The real unfairness would be Garryowen taking on huge clubs like Sale, without any sort of comparable finances, which is what the English clubs would like. I think it's fair enough at the moment, the problem is the English clubs are playing poorly.
Fair enough. i'm not well up on irfu structures and its a charge that these scots throw up at me regularly. i'll have a half assed defence now.
i'd imagine the leading irish players could command relative fortune n england or france then and stay for the betterment of irish rugby?
Quotei'd imagine the leading irish players could command relative fortune n england or france then and stay for the betterment of irish rugby?
Yes but once an Irish professional finishes playing rugby in Ireland he's entitled to get all his tax back that he paid over his professional career, a massive incentive plus player burn-out and management is handled far better in Ireland, professionals in Ireland are capped at 33 games, in France or England they could end up playing closer to 40, the more games the more chance of injury.
The Irish are very parochial and reallly bought into the Provinces, no surprise really when considers the success of the Railway cup in the 30s, 40s, 50s etc. This was all helped by the failed success of Munster which build a legacy and the 99 success of Ulster which provided a benchmark to the other provinces and demonstrated we could compete afer decades of failure at International level. The Welsh need Cardiff or the Ospreys to get to a final this year, if that happens the Regions will take off, still very divisive at the moment. Scotland is a strange fish, traditional the Borders was the rugby stronghold but the clubs refused to support the franchise and SRFU threw their all into Edinburgh and Glasgow and with 12K at their recent xmas derby the outlook is at least positive.
The problem in England is that there is very little rugby shown on Terrestrial TV and the growth of the game has stagnated particulary with the 24/7 Premiership Soccer saturation, England should have pushed on from the World Cup win in 2003 but they haven't, still the population base alone means they will always be competitive..
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2009, 10:28:44 AM
The game would be in Turnip Park, why would Munster give up home advantage, the IRFU would not dictate otherwise. Anyway lot of rugby before that happens, I can see Munster losing in France and although I can Leinster winning I think they won't get the bonus but a win should get them at least a best loser place which wouldn't be too bad, an away quarter to Cardiff is a better option that Turnip Park.
If the IRFU could get 83k into Croker the game would be played in Croker. In 2006 Munster played their Q/F in LR!
Quote from: Uladh on January 20, 2009, 11:31:25 AM
Edinburgh is a tough ask. surely contepomi will have to play at stand off?
Yeah, well Cheika ignored the Magners League form in the run up to the Wasps game, but maybe he'll finally cop on now. Nacewa is a quality player, but doesnt have the kicking game to be an out half IMO. I'd have Felipe at 10 and Nacewa at 12.
Quote from: Uladh on January 20, 2009, 11:51:40 AM
Is there any truth in the english/scottish/welsh accusations that munster and leinster enjoy an unfair advantage in terms of their geographical areas of pull and therefore the financial muscle?
i don't know what ulster's excuse is
Thus is only coming from England surely? The Welsh are talking about setting up the region they folded again and pulling out of the powergen cup. If 2 regions in Scotland can't compete why would splitting that up help.
Quote from: Tankie on January 21, 2009, 12:22:56 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2009, 10:28:44 AM
The game would be in Turnip Park, why would Munster give up home advantage, the IRFU would not dictate otherwise. Anyway lot of rugby before that happens, I can see Munster losing in France and although I can Leinster winning I think they won't get the bonus but a win should get them at least a best loser place which wouldn't be too bad, an away quarter to Cardiff is a better option that Turnip Park.
If the IRFU could get 83k into Croker the game would be played in Croker. In 2006 Munster played their Q/F in LR!
That was because Thomond Park only held 13k at that stage which was less than the minimum the ERC specified for Q/F ties.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2009, 10:09:41 AM
Quote from: Tankie on January 21, 2009, 12:22:56 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2009, 10:28:44 AM
The game would be in Turnip Park, why would Munster give up home advantage, the IRFU would not dictate otherwise. Anyway lot of rugby before that happens, I can see Munster losing in France and although I can Leinster winning I think they won't get the bonus but a win should get them at least a best loser place which wouldn't be too bad, an away quarter to Cardiff is a better option that Turnip Park.
If the IRFU could get 83k into Croker the game would be played in Croker. In 2006 Munster played their Q/F in LR!
That was because Thomond Park only held 13k at that stage which was less than the minimum the ERC specified for Q/F ties.
That was not the case, the IFRU run and own Irish Rugby, that includes Leinster and Munster. In 2007 Leinster played Wasps in a Q/F @ Adams park and that holds less than 11k. There is no minimun for a Q/F but the ERC would 'encourage' games to be played in bigger stadiums, Wasps felt they had a better chance at home that play in Reading where it hold 30k so they played in Adams Park. For the S/F the ERC pick the stadium and that must be a minimum 25k (or is it 35k).
So if Croke Park was available you can be sure regardless of who ot the home draw (Leinster or Munster) it would be played in Croke Park.
On the game this sunday, Dr Phil must play 10 and hope he controls the game, if we dont put Edinburgh out of the game after 30mins the game could easily be lost!
Big weekend for Irish Rugby, lets hope we can have 3 Irish wins with two teams in the Q/F, best of luck to the boys from the West too against Dax!
I see Edinburgh are sending a 'B' team. Serves Wasps right, Leinster should coast this now.
As for Munster, it depends on what Montauban team decides to turnip. (:)) I'd imagine they'd like to get one over Munster, and prove their performance in Thomond Park was no fluke. I expect Munster to be up for it, but a win in France is always tough enough to get, so they'll have to be ready. Montauban collapsed against Clermont last weekend, but we'll see..
Quote from: Tankie on January 23, 2009, 10:38:27 AM
Big weekend for Irish Rugby, lets hope we can have 3 Irish wins with two teams in the Q/F, best of luck to the boys from the West too against Dax!
The support is much appreciated Tankie. We are at full strength this evening so no excuses, especially as I believe DAX have only included 7 players that played against Toulouse recently. They are more concerned with maintaining the Top 14 status in France as progression in this competition is now beyond. The Sportsground will be a unique experience for a lot of the french lads :D :D :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2009, 11:26:52 AM
Turnip Park ? :D I wouldn't be overly confident in Montauban either Dinny, certainly not overly confident about getting 4 tries. As for Leinster, I'm sure they'll handle Edinburgh handily enough. It could end up with Leinster at home :D (Where would that be played?)
Anyway, I heard a much better description of Leinster a couple of weeks ago. I was always uncomfortable calling them the Ladyboys, it was a bit OTT. But from now on I will happily refer to them as the Latte Boys.
I used to despise leinster for being that latte D4 jet set, but with so many 'culchies' now on the team and throughout the ranks , coupled with the bandwaggoning with munster and the posery ethos that seems to have afflicted their player in the past few years, I have jumped ship and now support the latte bunch!
Not sure what has happened them though, they have good talent and at one point I thought Cheika seemed like a very astute man that was unfortunate with injuries. Now with mostly his first XV available most of the time this past season and a half, I am not so sure.
Dont think leo cullen is playing well either....imo their form has dipped since he came back (could be bias I know).
Turnip park though :D :D
Cheika gets a lot of flak but Leinster currently have the best defence domestically and in Europe, he's really gone back to basics and Leinster's attacking flair has suffered immensely however this new style is more conducive to winning tight games which is what you need to progress in Europe. It's what Munster and Leicester have been doing for years. There are actually very few Dubs on the Leinster team, BOD, Jennings and Dempsey being the only regular starters from the Capital with Kildare, Louth, Carlow, Wicklow, Wexford, Meath all well represented. Anyway I think Cheika will move on this season but he will leave a good legacy imho and Leinster are least starting to shake the ladyboy image...
Leinster to win no bonus but will still win the goup.
Munste to win no bonus.
Ulster to lose...
Connacht to win...
Munster v Leinster in the quarter-finals, imagine been from Leinster trying to get tickets for that :o
Munster game off. Re-fixed for tomorrow @ 1.00pm.
FT
Stade Francais 24
Ulster 19
Bid game today for Leinster, if Leinster do not qualify today i fail to see how the current management team will survive at the end of the season.
Also a 1pm kick of is a ridiculous time to be heading to a match!
Halftime scores
Leinster 12 Edinburgh 3
Montauban 6 Munster 10
i see the "baby elephant" Ollie Le Roux has turned into an adult !
Fulltime scores
Leinster 12 Edinburgh 3
Montauban 13 Munster 39
Do ya see the state of the pitch for Bath v. Toulouse? Easy pen just missed. A complete lottery.
What result could make us have a Munster v. Leinster quarter final?
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 25, 2009, 03:38:39 PM
Do ya see the state of the pitch for Bath v. Toulouse? Easy pen just missed. A complete lottery.
What result could make us have a Munster v. Leinster quarter final?
Need Bath to win with bonus pt or Toulouse to win and get 5 tries. Neither going to happen in that weather!
Leinster will be away to Bath if they beat Toulouse, otherwise it'll be Harlequins. Munster home to Ospreys
Quarter final draw,games to be played April 10-12.
Cardiff Blues (1) v Toulouse (8)
Munster (2) v Ospreys (7)
Harlequins (3) v Leinster (6)
Leicester Tigers (4) v Bath Rugby (5)
Is that the first time there's only been 1 French team in the quarter finals?
Long break now but both Irish sides look like they've got a good chance.
Leinster were poor enough and looked as if they could have been there till next Sunday and not scored a try. However they are through and of all the away draws they could have gotten Harlequins looks like the handiest if there is such a thing as a handy draw in the quarters. On the plus side Kearney looked excellent. Munster look to be in good form as well
Wasps must be kicking themselves, how they failed to achieve a result out there is beyond me . I agree the draw against quinns in the best Leinster could of gotten but Cardiff must be thinking who they pissed off to get Toulouse. I can see 2 Irish teams in the semi's
QuoteWasps must be kicking themselves, how they failed to achieve a result out there is beyond me
Why? Catres have some very good players, beat Leinster at home and like all French tend to have a good record at home. Castres would always have been favourites for that game.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 26, 2009, 10:30:03 AM
QuoteWasps must be kicking themselves, how they failed to achieve a result out there is beyond me
Why? Catres have some very good players, beat Leinster at home and like all French tend to have a good record at home. Castres would always have been favourites for that game.
Because when the French teams are out they normally don't give a toss any more. Before the game i thought there was a very real chance of Wasps not only winning but picking up the 5 points
Quote from: Declan on January 26, 2009, 08:00:25 AM
Leinster were poor enough and looked as if they could have been there till next Sunday and not scored a try. However they are through and of all the away draws they could have gotten Harlequins looks like the handiest if there is such a thing as a handy draw in the quarters. On the plus side Kearney looked excellent. Munster look to be in good form as well
Little bit harsh given Fitzgerald had what looked a perfectly good try chalked off by a poor decision.
The first half I thought they played well, albeit the second, especially the last 20, they didnt have any penetration.
Agree re Kearney, and nice to see Heaslip finally show a bit of form. Plus Leinster will be a lot better in spring conditions than they are in winter conditions.
QuoteLittle bit harsh given Fitzgerald had what looked a perfectly good try chalked off by a poor decision.
dunno Hound - sure even that one was the result of a brutal pass by the doctor - To me they never looked like finishing a move off with a try
QuoteBecause when the French teams are out they normally don't give a toss any more. Before the game i thought there was a very real chance of Wasps not only winning but picking up the 5 points
French teams never play a wekened side at home and always target their home games, Castre and Montauban would have small squads and would not pick their strongest teams on their travels as they can't compete on two fronts but their fans demand their strongest teams at home. In fairness that makes Munsters result all the more impressive however I'm thinking they've peaked too early as Munster generally don't qualify with such ease.
Leinster were poor in attack but just to emphasise again their defence was very impressive, they have the best defensive record in Europe, if that was Munster they would be commended for a very professional performance.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 26, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
In fairness that makes Munsters result all the more impressive however I'm thinking they've peaked too early as Munster generally don't qualify with such ease.
I think they peaked at the same time they have in previous years. They didnt qualify with ease because they played well throughout the tournament, they were poor enough early on but had some outragous luck.
But scoring 5 tries in Mountabaun shows, in my opinion, they are clearly the best team left in the tournament. Feck all between the other 7 at this moment in time.
Munster are the best team in Europe over the last few years. It still amuses me to hear some media portraying them as plucky underdogs and to hear Munster fans shaking their head forlornly when talking about their upcoming matches! Imagine how sick other teams must be when they are drawn to play Munster!!
QuoteI think they peaked at the same time they have in previous years. They didnt qualify with ease because they played well throughout the tournament, they were poor enough early on but had some outragous luck.
I don't know about that Hound, this I think is the easiest they have had ever to qualify, last year they had to dig deep away to Clermont in the 2nd last game and were very patchy against Wasps in their final group game and can thank the condtions for their win. The year before they lost their last game to Leicester and the year before that they needed a miracle match performance against Sale to qualify.
Anyhow they are clear favourites but the Ospreys are a cocky team and will fancy their chances in Turinp Park.
I think that the draw has been very kind to both Munster and Leinster, I think we will have two Irish teams in the Semi-Final. Quinns is a support away fixture for Leinster when you consider what they coul have drawn against!
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 26, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
QuoteBecause when the French teams are out they normally don't give a toss any more. Before the game i thought there was a very real chance of Wasps not only winning but picking up the 5 points
Leinster were poor in attack but just to emphasise again their defence was very impressive, they have the best defensive record in Europe, if that was Munster they would be commended for a very professional performance.
I don't think even Munster would be commended for having something like 73% territory for the second half yesterday and failing miserably to get over the try line against a very understrength Edinburgh side with nothing to play for except pride. Leinster's performances have been going steadily downhill all tournament and in truth they were a bit lucky in the end that Wasps were a little bit worse than they were. The backline is malfunctioning spectacularly at the moment. At least they have a break now until the quarter-finals because if that game was next weekend they would probably be going out.
QuoteLeinster's performances have been going steadily downhill all tournament and in truth they were a bit lucky in the end that Wasps were a little bit worse than they were
Ridiculous, they won the group because they were the best team in the group. Edinburgh are actually a decent side and Castres have a fantastic home record including I think two victories over Munster. The criticism Leinster receive is unbelievable, they are through to the quarter-finals, are second in the Magners and have the best defence in Europe and domesictally (lead the inter-pro table as well). I think as AZ mention Leinster's biggest crime is that their not Munster.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 26, 2009, 06:11:55 PM
QuoteLeinster's performances have been going steadily downhill all tournament and in truth they were a bit lucky in the end that Wasps were a little bit worse than they were
Ridiculous, they won the group because they were the best team in the group. Edinburgh are actually a decent side and Castres have a fantastic home record including I think two victories over Munster. The criticism Leinster receive is unbelievable, they are through to the quarter-finals, are second in the Magners and have the best defence in Europe and domesictally (lead the inter-pro table as well). I think as AZ mention Leinster's biggest crime is that their not Munster.
Fair enough if you are happy with their displays. Many Leinster fans certainly don't seem to be. Their defence has held up but right now they look like they couldn't score a try to save their lives.
With 12 minutes to go yesterday Wasps managed to blow a certain try which would have left them needing one more for a bonus point win and left Leinster in real trouble. Thankfully for Leinster they made a balls of it and Castres went down the field and scored themselves.
Leinster will be grateful of the few months break before the Harlequins game because they are not playing well and limped over the line in their group. However they are a very talented bunch and got a pretty decent draw in Harlequins. Certainly a winnable game but not on their current form.
QuoteFair enough if you are happy with their displays. Many Leinster fans certainly don't seem to be. Their defence has held up but right now they look like they couldn't score a try to save their lives.
I'm not happy with the attacking performance but very happy with the defence and organisational structure of the team. Leinster's attacking allingment is too flat for my liking and they need more depth of 2nd phase but considering they aren't generating that much go forward off 1st phase they're always going to struggle. I never buy into doom and gloom negativity, a pointless excercise in my opinion and I would always try to accenuate the positive. Leinster mentally are heading the right direction which is far more important to this team's development than the all dancing trying scoring rugby of old, Leinster need to believe that they can win ugly tight games and that's exactly what they are starting to do. Wasp's lost a game yesterday they deserved to lose, if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle. Leinster won the group by 4 clear points and had a much better head to head against the 2nd place team, they lost two games 1 away to the current European Champions and 1 away in France, claiming 2 losing bonus points, they also won away against their bogey side claiming a winning bonus. So they far from limped over while not been impressive Leinster comfortably won the group.
By the way I don't thnk Leinster will win the HC, they will bow out at the semi-final stage but they will be serious contenders next year once they get the scrum half situation sorted. Toulouse would be my choice as winners.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on January 26, 2009, 06:35:42 PM
With 12 minutes to go yesterday Wasps managed to blow a certain try which would have left them needing one more for a bonus point win and left Leinster in real trouble. Thankfully for Leinster they made a balls of it and Castres went down the field and scored themselves.
Even if Wasps had scored two more tries and won with a bonus point, Leinster would still have qualified as one of the best runners up.
Draw for the semi-finals take place today.
Apparently each team has to nominate a "home venue" for the semis but it can't be their actual home ground and it must be able to hold 20,000.
Therefore Munster's home venue for a semi final will be the RDS (normal capacity is 18k but its reckoned they can up it to 20k).
And Leinster's home venue for a semi final will be Thomond Park - which would be gas craic!
And that leads to the question what happens if Leinster are drawn at home to Munster in the semis (assuming both win their quarters).
Would the game have to take place in Limerick, but Leinster get 70% (or whatever the home allocation is) of the tickets?
Hardly, but then the rules state you are not allowed play in your own venue. Is Ravenhill an option? It would be fun to play in Thomond with a majority of Leinster fans and minority of Munsters.
Croke Park is not an option as things currently stand, but no doubt it'll be the possibility that gets the most media attention.
I'm not sure where I stand on that. I was for opening it up for Ireland internationals, but would certainly be against using it for say Bohs to play a Champions League game in. This is somewhere in the middle.
Quote from: Hound on January 27, 2009, 09:42:42 AM
Draw for the semi-finals take place today.
Apparently each team has to nominate a "home venue" for the semis but it can't be their actual home ground and it must be able to hold 20,000.
Therefore Munster's home venue for a semi final will be the RDS (normal capacity is 18k but its reckoned they can up it to 20k).
And Leinster's home venue for a semi final will be Thomond Park - which would be gas craic!
And that leads to the question what happens if Leinster are drawn at home to Munster in the semis (assuming both win their quarters).
Would the game have to take place in Limerick, but Leinster get 70% (or whatever the home allocation is) of the tickets?
Hardly, but then the rules state you are not allowed play in your own venue. Is Ravenhill an option? It would be fun to play in Thomond with a majority of Leinster fans and minority of Munsters.
Croke Park is not an option as things currently stand, but no doubt it'll be the possibility that gets the most media attention.
I'm not sure where I stand on that. I was for opening it up for Ireland internationals, but would certainly be against using it for say Bohs to play a Champions League game in. This is somewhere in the middle.
Its a rediculous situation to be in when there is a stadium in the country that should be hosting the game!
Quote from: Tankie on January 27, 2009, 10:14:12 AM
Its a rediculous situation to be in when there is a stadium in the country that should be hosting the game!
Does a decision to use Croke Park need to go to Congress or are Central Council now empowered to make such decisions?
Quote from: Hound on January 27, 2009, 12:04:48 PM
Quote from: Tankie on January 27, 2009, 10:14:12 AM
Its a rediculous situation to be in when there is a stadium in the country that should be hosting the game!
Does a decision to use Croke Park need to go to Congress or are Central Council now empowered to make such decisions?
i would assume it needs to go through Congress so it aint even worth debating as they will never beable to make a decision! If it was a Leinster or Munster home draw I wouldnt be surprised if the ERC refused to play it in Ireland due to stadium restrictions!
Central Council has the say-so on the use of Croke Park for soccer and rugby for the duration of the Lansdowne Road development. This power was was given to them by a Congress vote. Central Council decided that they would make CP available for international matches only. I don't think there's anything to prevent them making another decision to make it available for some other type of competition. Myself, I can't see why they wouldn't, if asked and if it's available. What would be the point of refusing the money?
Munster v Leinster in the Semi.......
Gentleman prepare for another round of open Croke Park speculation.........
Quotebut would certainly be against using it for say Bohs to play a Champions League game in.
Why's that Hound? As opposed to Munster -v- Leinster, why are the Phibsboro mob less worthy?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 27, 2009, 01:04:31 PM
Munster v Leinster in the Semi.......
Gentleman prepare for another round of open Croke Park speculation.........
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, its like all my dreams have come true. Cancel the Kinsale 7's accom!!!!
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 27, 2009, 01:09:49 PM
Quotebut would certainly be against using it for say Bohs to play a Champions League game in.
Why's that Hound? As opposed to Munster -v- Leinster, why are the Phibsboro mob less worthy?
Just my views Billy. And in fairness "certainly be against" would be over-stating it, but my gut is No, and I'd need to be persuaded.
Its not beyond the bounds of possibility that Bohs (or whoever the champs are) could draw say AC Milan in a final qualifer for the CL knock out stages. If we allowed them to use Croker it would enable them to really market the game and create a lot of interest in their club, thus giving them the opportunity to be a real rival/competitor to the GAA.
Whereas playing Munster v Leinster or internationals at Croker doesnt give them any more exposure than they would get be playing elsewhere.
There might be flaws in that logic! But its what comes to mind...
QuoteMunster and Leinster may clash in semis
Tuesday, 27 January 2009 13:41
Irish provinces Munster and Leinster could meet in the semi-finals of the Heineken Cup after being placed in the same side of the draw.
The draw, made at Murrayfield this afternoon, saw the Irish provinces come out of the pot third and fourth.
Munster emerged first of the pair, meaning they will get 'home country advantage' if they can beat the Neath-Swansea Ospreys in the quarter-final. Leinster must beat Guinness Premiership side Harlequins to progress.
If both sides win, they will then meet in the semi-final in early May.
Due to competition rules which mean they must move the match to a different venue than their Pool and quarter-final match home ground, Munster do not have a convenient stadium in which to play their 'home country advantage' semi-final.
The redevelopment of Lansdowne Road is not due to be completed until later in the year and Croke Park is only open to international matches.
That means that the dual winners may be forced to play their semi-final at the RDS in Dublin, where Leinster normally play their home games.
Munster would still be treated as the home side, meaning Munster supporters would receive the majority of tickets for the match.
In the other side of the draw, the winners of the clash between Cardiff and Toulouse will face the winners of the all Premiership meeting of Leicester and Bath in the semi-final.
This is really gonna be an interesting one for the GAA and the IRFU to work out, I have no faith in the GAA to allow this game be played in Croke Park, even if its not a Leinster v Munster Semi final if Munster get there they should be allowed to use Croke Park imo.
Quote from: Hardy on January 27, 2009, 12:58:26 PM
Central Council has the say-so on the use of Croke Park for soccer and rugby for he duration of the Lansdowne Road development. This power was was given to them buy a Congress vote. Central Council decided that they would make CP available for international matches only. I don't think there's anything to prevent them making another decision to make it available for some other type of competition. Myself, I can't see why they wouldn't, if asked and if it's available. What would be the point of refusing the money?
I wasn't sure if Hardy was right but reading the rule I see nothing stopping Central Council from allowing a potential Munster v. Leinster HC semi final in Croke Park. They were cute the way they worded it. So long as they get a good fee I wouldn't be too bothered. I would wager that this WILL happen if the two teams progress.
Quote from: Hound on January 27, 2009, 01:25:15 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 27, 2009, 01:09:49 PM
Quotebut would certainly be against using it for say Bohs to play a Champions League game in.
Why's that Hound? As opposed to Munster -v- Leinster, why are the Phibsboro mob less worthy?
Just my views Billy. And in fairness "certainly be against" would be over-stating it, but my gut is No, and I'd need to be persuaded.
Its not beyond the bounds of possibility that Bohs (or whoever the champs are) could draw say AC Milan in a final qualifer for the CL knock out stages. If we allowed them to use Croker it would enable them to really market the game and create a lot of interest in their club, thus giving them the opportunity to be a real rival/competitor to the GAA.
Whereas playing Munster v Leinster or internationals at Croker doesnt give them any more exposure than they would get be playing elsewhere.
There might be flaws in that logic! But its what comes to mind...
Thanks Hound, wsn't winding, was genuinely interested. I'd prefer to see Bohs (and Irish soccer) getting more exposure than rugby, myself - I think it's less of a threat. From what I've seen, people will gravitate towards the 'major' sport they're best at, irrespective of the 'marketing', and far more dependent on the folk they meet when playing the games. Like Hound, it's only a personal opinion.
They should be allowed to use Croke Park no doubt! How about a round figure of 3million for the privilege though!!!!!!!! Sure the Munster are well able to afford that with all the people in the supporters club!
Quote from: cicfada on January 27, 2009, 02:25:18 PM
They should be allowed to use Croke Park no doubt! How about a round figure of 3million for the privilege though!!!!!!!! Sure the Munster are well able to afford that with all the people in the supporters club!
i think the standard fee would be a fair price. its no wonder the country is in the shitter with everyone just wanting to rip everyone off when they have the upper hand!
Quote from: cicfada on January 27, 2009, 02:25:18 PM
They should be allowed to use Croke Park no doubt! How about a round figure of 3million for the privilege though!!!!!!!! Sure the Munster are well able to afford that with all the people in the supporters club!
I'd even say €3 mill was a bit steep. something in the €1.5-2 mill bracket would be fair enough {(82000-55000)*€70 = €1,890,000}.
The Heineken Cup quarter-finals, to be played on the weekend of 11 / 12 April, 2009, are:
Cardiff Blues (1) v Toulouse (8) : Saturday 15.30
Leicester Tigers (4) v Bath Rugby (5) Saturday 18:00
Munster (2) v Ospreys (7) Sunday 13:00
Harlequins (3) v Leinster (6) Sunday 15:30
Where is the Harlequins v leinster game being played?
Quote from: thebandit on January 27, 2009, 03:09:33 PM
The Heineken Cup quarter-finals, to be played on the weekend of 11 / 12 April, 2009, are:
Cardiff Blues (1) v Toulouse (8) : Saturday 15.30
Leicester Tigers (4) v Bath Rugby (5) Saturday 18:00
Munster (2) v Ospreys (7) Sunday 13:00
Harlequins (3) v Leinster (6) Sunday 15:30
Where is the Harlequins v leinster game being played?
Twickenham stoop i should imagine although i suppose they could move it next door. Likewise Cardiff Blues.
This is Easter Saturday/Sunday so the pubs should do quite a trade too. Semis on Bank Holiday May weekend
A possible problem with Croker for the semis. The National Hurling League finals are scheduled for the same weekend.
Though they may not be scheduled for Croker. Although whether the game is in Croker or not, the GAA would presumably fix the NHL finals so they wouldnt clash to avoid a decrease in attendances.
Quote from: thebandit on January 27, 2009, 03:09:33 PM
The Heineken Cup quarter-finals, to be played on the weekend of 11 / 12 April, 2009, are:
Cardiff Blues (1) v Toulouse (8) : Saturday 15.30
Leicester Tigers (4) v Bath Rugby (5) Saturday 18:00
Munster (2) v Ospreys (7) Sunday 13:00
Harlequins (3) v Leinster (6) Sunday 15:30
Where is the Harlequins v leinster game being played?
I think Quins will move it to Twickenham proper, which wil be good for the Leinster fans travelling, there'll be no shortage of tickets. Delighted Munsters game is Easter Sunday rather than Easter Saturday, as I'll be travelling to Kerry on Friday, would have made for a crazy drive up the next day!!
QuoteCentral Council has the say-so on the use of Croke Park for soccer and rugby for the duration of the Lansdowne Road development. This power was was given to them by a Congress vote. Central Council decided that they would make CP available for international matches only. I don't think there's anything to prevent them making another decision to make it available for some other type of competition. Myself, I can't see why they wouldn't, if asked and if it's available. What would be the point of refusing the money?
Hardy is spot on. Peter McKenna confirmed on Newstalk tonight that it's up to Central Council if they receive a request from IRFU/ERC. Mentioned without prejudicing any future requests that he imagined they would be looking at a similar financial arrangement as exists for internationals. At pains to state that its all hypothetical at the moment
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/7851441.stm
wonder if the Bull is part of this campaign??
The possibility of an all Irish s/f has surely been totally jinxed already.
QuoteThe possibility of an all Irish s/f has surely been totally jinxed already.
True Leinster will probably play the Ospreys in the Millenium Stadium....
Apologies if this has been brought up in another thread
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GAA backs use of Croke Park for Heineken Cup semi-final
Saturday, 14 February 2009
GAA officials have this afternoon overwhelmingly given their backing to the use of Croke Park for a Heineken Cup semi-final, following a meeting of the GAA's Central Council at Hayes' Hotel in Thurles.
The IRFU's application to host a potential semi-final, should Munster win their quarter-final tie against Welsh side Ospreys; was discussed in length at the meeting and was met with little opposition.
No vote was required and a decision was taken to allow Croke Park to be used should Tony McGahan's charges emerge victorious from their quarter-final.
Six speakers spoke on the motion, with the majority of those in favour of allowing the game take place at GAA Headquarters, including incoming GAA President Christy Cooney.
Cooney stated that the decision was in accordance with Rule 4 of the GAA's Official Guide.
The semi-final has the potential of being an all-Irish affair, with Leinster taking on London Harlequins in the corresponding quarter-final.
Munster into the Qtr finals, 43-9 with 10mins to go. Made easy work of Ospreys in the 2nd half. Just need Leinster to do the biz later now.
Quote from: thejuice on April 12, 2009, 02:29:32 PM
Munster into the Qtr finals, 43-9 with 10mins to go. Made easy work of Ospreys in the 2nd half. Just need Leinster to do the biz later now.
Munster were superb. A Munster Leinster semi final in Croke Park would be amazing
Leinster defending extremely well. Harlequins with plenty of possession but its not showing on the scoreboard. Hopefully Leinster can build on this lead in the second half
Absolutely brilliant by leinster! ended 6-5
What date wil the Semi be.
Let's hope Leinster and Contempomi get revenge for the last semi meeting, it's the doc's last game against Munster, let's hope he gets the last laugh.
Jesus that was tough stuff... both on the pitch and having to watch it! Leinster defended extremely well though and should maybe have ahad a couple of tries at a few stages. Munster will be a totally different proposition. I can actually see no way that Leinster will win that one. Their pack will not be able to compete with Munster and Jackman is a complete liability!
Quote from: Bogball XV on April 12, 2009, 05:34:54 PM
Let's hope Leinster and Contempomi get revenge for the last semi meeting, it's the doc's last game against Munster, let's hope he gets the last laugh.
I wouldn't put my money on it.
He looks even more flaky lately.
QuoteI can actually see no way that Leinster will win that one. Their pack will not be able to compete with Munster
Eh! Leinster dominated against Munster recently up front, the difference between the sides is at half-back and Munster hold all the aces there though.
that was incredible by leinster defensively - I mean they were beaten all ends up for most of the game yet still won. I'd hate to be munster going into that game after today-unbackable. You never know Leinster are a due a performance sometime against them.
Leinster are playing well up front and defending well, but below par at 9 and we don't let our backs play.
Typical example when Luke was charging forward with the ball with a great chance of a counter attack, loads of space to run into, and O'Driscoll roars at him to kick it. Very frustrating. Lucky in the end that Quins had no kicker. We were the better team in the first half and a tad unlucky with Kearney's try that was disallowed - but 2nd half was generally one way traffic in the wrong direction.
Stunning performance by Munster earlier in the day.
That was great stuff by Leinster today. But what a year for Irish rugby, there will be some serious hype around this game, lets hope the Leinster bandwagon turns up to support the team as we know the Munster one will be there in full force.
Will the semi final at Croker be an instant sellout or should tickets be easily available?
What do yus think?
Quote from: Gaffer on April 12, 2009, 07:41:27 PM
Will the semi final at Croker be an instant sellout or should tickets be easily available?
What do yus think?
Just noticed that they have gone on sale on Tickemaster at 6pm although when you select tickets they are not available ??? ??? ???
Quote from: Gaffer on April 12, 2009, 07:41:27 PM
Will the semi final at Croker be an instant sellout or should tickets be easily available?
What do yus think?
Definite sellout. Greatest occasion in Irish sport, Grand Slam year, binmen vs. lawyers etc. ;)
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 12, 2009, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on April 12, 2009, 07:41:27 PM
Will the semi final at Croker be an instant sellout or should tickets be easily available?
What do yus think?
Definite sellout. Greatest occasion in Irish sport, Grand Slam year, binmen vs. lawyers etc. ;)
Greatest?
Irish Provinces have already won the HC 3 times
Munster have already tanked Leinster in the HC s/f or q/f
The Rugby success is very welcome but it's a sideshow, more like bonus entertainment.
You'd have 2 million peole welcoming home the soccer team if they won the EC.
You get about 20k welcoming home the Rugby boys after an outstanding gritty display at Cardiff.
Leinster looked very very fortunate to scrape by a poor looking bedraggled Quinns.
Munster look to be in another class altogether.
Munster by a Kerry mile.
Would love it if Leinster won the semi - Are they due a good one?
Quote from: Main Street on April 12, 2009, 09:50:17 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 12, 2009, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on April 12, 2009, 07:41:27 PM
Will the semi final at Croker be an instant sellout or should tickets be easily available?
What do yus think?
Definite sellout. Greatest occasion in Irish sport, Grand Slam year, binmen vs. lawyers etc. ;)
Greatest?
Irish Provinces have already won the HC 3 times
Munster have already tanked Leinster in the HC s/f or q/f
The Rugby success is very welcome but it's a sideshow, more like bonus entertainment.
You'd have 2 million peole welcoming home the soccer team if they won the EC.
You get about 20k welcoming home the Rugby boys after an outstanding gritty display at Cardiff.
Leinster looked very very fortunate to scrape by a poor looking bedraggled Quinns.
Munster look to be in another class altogether.
Munster by a Kerry mile.
Jaysus BNM you caught a big one there, the semi will be a great occasion but rugby is still a minority sport that probably gets more media coverage than it deserves but professional soccer has had it's day in the sun and Euro 88 and World Cup 90 will never be repeated, the common man has long departed from that scene.
QuoteLeinster looked very very fortunate to scrape by a poor looking bedraggled Quinns.
Yea a fantastic defensive performance against the form team in England yet it was fortunate, yet if it was Munster it would be epic, seriously some people haven't a clue if they thought Leinster were fortunate.
Was in Thomond yesterday for the stroll in the sunshine. Seriously though, it was only that Munster got all the breaks that made it such a beating. Ospreys threw in the towel after Munsters second try, and Munster took advantage of it. Definitely some lucky breaks though. Earls first try could have been forward from Mafi's brilliant offload, O'Connell's try came from two very tight decisions regarding ball in/out, Earls second try must have been millimetres from being tackled into touch. One of those days. Munster were impressive though, and i thought Warwick, Mafi, Wallace, Leamy and the Locks were immense. The ovation Bull got coming off was huge, and well deserved. Tony Buckley looked hungry when he came on as well.
As for Leinster, that was a great game, and a great defensive performance. They do seem to have gone into their shell regarding running rugby, but no one can question their heart. I watched in the Locke Bar yesterday after the Munster game, and someone called them ladyboys. About 10 people turned around to him and one of them said 'Are you f*cking Joking? Are you watching this?'. And it wasn't me :)
The Locke was full of Munster fans, watching away, and when 'Quins scored the try, about 15 of them in the middle of the crowd went mad, come on 'Quins. The reaction of the rest of the crowd was funny. It was like someone farted at a funeral. When they missed the conversion, the penalty and the drop goal, the Pub went mad.
I think this thing of hating Leinster for the sake of hating Leinster is going away a bit. I know we'll be very nervous heading up to Croker on the 2nd May, that's for sure, but if Munster can't win another one, I'd like to see O'Driscoll pick up one. The fear for me was always that Leinster would win one before Munster, and defeat in 2006 would have been sickening.
This would be sickening too, but I think Munster would get over it. I'm not sure they would have in 2006.
Still doesn't mean they won't be going all out to win it mind :D
Got tickets for the Semi - Final this morning. I aint even sure if i am looking forward to it as i fear the worst but it will be a great day for Irish Rugby.
AZ,
were you in the gang singing the black velvet band at the game?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 13, 2009, 03:39:28 AM
QuoteLeinster looked very very fortunate to scrape by a poor looking bedraggled Quinns.
Yea a fantastic defensive performance against the form team in England yet it was fortunate, yet if it was Munster it would be epic, seriously some people haven't a clue if they thought Leinster were fortunate.
Leinster defended magnificently and deserved it, I don't know what a form team mean in England but it did not show in Quin's kicking and their guile in front of the posts yesterday.
Only a blind person :) could fail to see that Quins were unfortunate not to get the ball grounded in a much better position for conversion than where they did eventually get their try. In such a game that is what is defined as fortune and misfortune - not the late drop goal attempt or long range penalty.
I couldn't give a real toss for either Munster or Leinster, I have no axe to grind with either, I am equally impressed with either when they perform.
Will the fact that Munster won so comfortably and Leinster had to scrap to win have a bearing on the mindset for the semi. I know Munster are the masters of preparation but there may be a certain level of complacency in their game.
BTW AZ, an Offaly man from cheering against Leinster, you are a true bandwagoner :P
TO be honest, i dont know if many beyond the Pale follow Leinster. I cant say I do. I would watch it and hope they win of course but wouldnt be calling myself a supporter. Think Munster appeal more to us cultchies though I wouldnt be a supporter of them either.
Maybe its the 'Come On You Boys In Blue' cheer that subconciously puts me off ;)
Anybody know where to get a few tickets?
If you hold a 10-year croke park ticket, would that give you an option to buy one?
Quote from: tyrone exile on April 13, 2009, 02:17:56 PM
Anybody know where to get a few tickets?
If you hold a 10-year croke park ticket, would that give you an option to buy one?
They are supposedly on sale on ticketmaster from yesterday but when I went to buy a couple it said none were available. ??? ??? ???
Quote from: ludermor on April 13, 2009, 11:59:53 AM
AZ,
were you in the gang singing the black velvet band at the game?
Most of Thomond Park was. In fairness Tommy got a good reception, just like the Leinster lads did last week. He had a little smile and a clap when that song was sung.
Quote from: Gaffer on April 13, 2009, 02:58:35 PM
Quote from: tyrone exile on April 13, 2009, 02:17:56 PM
Anybody know where to get a few tickets?
If you hold a 10-year croke park ticket, would that give you an option to buy one?
They are supposedly on sale on ticketmaster from yesterday but when I went to buy a couple it said none were available. ??? ??? ???
yeah heard the 5000 available were sold out with in 30 minutes.
Any other way of getting hold of a ticket?
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 13, 2009, 03:08:08 PM
Quote from: ludermor on April 13, 2009, 11:59:53 AM
AZ,
were you in the gang singing the black velvet band at the game?
Most of Thomond Park was. In fairness Tommy got a good reception, just like the Leinster lads did last week. He had a little smile and a clap when that song was sung.
Aye thought it was a lovely touch and fair play to him for playing along with it!
Quote from: thejuice on April 13, 2009, 01:30:22 PM
TO be honest, i dont know if many beyond the Pale follow Leinster. I cant say I do. I would watch it and hope they win of course but wouldnt be calling myself a supporter. Think Munster appeal more to us cultchies though I wouldnt be a supporter of them either.
Maybe its the 'Come On You Boys In Blue' cheer that subconciously puts me off ;)
When we sing Molly Malone your blood must run cold so. I know a good few from beyond the pale who support Leinster.
Quote from: tyrone exile on April 13, 2009, 03:35:22 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on April 13, 2009, 02:58:35 PM
Quote from: tyrone exile on April 13, 2009, 02:17:56 PM
Anybody know where to get a few tickets?
If you hold a 10-year croke park ticket, would that give you an option to buy one?
They are supposedly on sale on ticketmaster from yesterday but when I went to buy a couple it said none were available. ??? ??? ???
yeah heard the 5000 available were sold out with in 30 minutes.
Any other way of getting hold of a ticket?
Appears to be the ticket situation :-\ :-\ :-\
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2009/0413/1224244584170.html?via=mr
Quote from: Gaffer on April 13, 2009, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: tyrone exile on April 13, 2009, 03:35:22 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on April 13, 2009, 02:58:35 PM
Quote from: tyrone exile on April 13, 2009, 02:17:56 PM
Anybody know where to get a few tickets?
If you hold a 10-year croke park ticket, would that give you an option to buy one?
They are supposedly on sale on ticketmaster from yesterday but when I went to buy a couple it said none were available. ??? ??? ???
yeah heard the 5000 available were sold out with in 30 minutes.
Any other way of getting hold of a ticket?
Appears to be the ticket situation :-\ :-\ :-\
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2009/0413/1224244584170.html?via=mr
Got 6 of the finest this morning ;D ;D
Not a great fan of Rugby. Cant stand the Munster "best fans in the World" @( official copyright) attitude. Binmen v Lawyers.......mmmmmm Imo the Munster team attract the small town Golf Club jersey type ........ think they are better than everyone else.
Hope Leinster win to shut these hooray Henrys up and also have 2 mates who suport Leinster and would be delighted for them. From what I hear there is more of a GAA background in the Leinster lads and that is good enough for me.
Another "greatest day ever in history of Croke Park" heap of drivel to listen to in the next few weeks together with listening to that cliche ridden clown Gerry Thornley on the wireless.
Will also have to bite my lip when Ryle calls kicking a ball over the sideline as "pure class".
Quote from: Canalman on April 13, 2009, 07:15:44 PM
Not a great fan of Rugby. Cant stand the Munster "best fans in the World" @( official copyright) attitude. Binmen v Lawyers.......mmmmmm Imo the Munster team attract the small town Golf Club jersey type ........ think they are better than everyone else.
Hope Leinster win to shut these hooray Henrys up and also have 2 mates who suport Leinster and would be delighted for them. From what I hear there is more of a GAA background in the Leinster lads and that is good enough for me.
Another "greatest day ever in history of Croke Park" heap of drivel to listen to in the next few weeks together with listening to that cliche ridden clown Gerry Thornley on the wireless.
Will also have to bite my lip when Ryle calls kicking a ball over the sideline as "pure class".
Like the Murphy's he's not bitter. ;D
Quote from: Gnevin on April 13, 2009, 07:08:28 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on April 13, 2009, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: tyrone exile on April 13, 2009, 03:35:22 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on April 13, 2009, 02:58:35 PM
Quote from: tyrone exile on April 13, 2009, 02:17:56 PM
Anybody know where to get a few tickets?
If you hold a 10-year croke park ticket, would that give you an option to buy one?
They are supposedly on sale on ticketmaster from yesterday but when I went to buy a couple it said none were available. ??? ??? ???
yeah heard the 5000 available were sold out with in 30 minutes.
Any other way of getting hold of a ticket?
Appears to be the ticket situation :-\ :-\ :-\
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2009/0413/1224244584170.html?via=mr
Got 6 of the finest this morning ;D ;D
Nice one !!!
Quote from: Canalman on April 13, 2009, 07:15:44 PM
Not a great fan of Rugby. Cant stand the Munster "best fans in the World" @( official copyright) attitude. Binmen v Lawyers.......mmmmmm Imo the Munster team attract the small town Golf Club jersey type ........ think they are better than everyone else.
Hope Leinster win to shut these hooray Henrys up and also have 2 mates who suport Leinster and would be delighted for them. From what I hear there is more of a GAA background in the Leinster lads and that is good enough for me.
Another "greatest day ever in history of Croke Park" heap of drivel to listen to in the next few weeks together with listening to that cliche ridden clown Gerry Thornley on the wireless.
Will also have to bite my lip when Ryle calls kicking a ball over the sideline as "pure class".
I have to agree. Have to listen to more cliched bullshit about rugby being the heartbeat of the nation when we won the grand slam and 15k turned up. But there is an element of the leinster support that I can't stand either, but I'll be hoping they win. They'll probably let us all down like they invariably do. They could at least throw a leg at it this time round.
Living here in the heart of Munster I should really be shouting for them but I am hoping that Leinster win to be honest! The amount of shite being spouted by the Munster fans is unreal i.e the best fans in the world, the win over the All-Blacks, the heartbeat of a nation etc etc. I was told over the weekend that the GAA is fucked that rugby will be Ireland's biggest sport and the Leinster team is only a shower of west brits, and if you're any kind of man you'll be shouting for Munster! I am sick and tired of it to be honest. These people by the way are not members of any rugby club, nor do they coach youngesters in rugby nor have they ever played rugby at any level! But they are members of the Munster Supporters Club and have tickets for every match! The closer the game comes the more the hype will be and I am sure it will be a great day for Irish sport but save me this drivel!
Quote from: cicfada on April 13, 2009, 09:56:28 PM
Living here in the heart of Munster I should really be shouting for them but I am hoping that Leinster win to be honest! The amount of shite being spouted by the Munster fans is unreal i.e the best fans in the world, the win over the All-Blacks, the heartbeat of a nation etc etc. I was told over the weekend that the GAA is fucked that rugby will be Ireland's biggest sport and the Leinster team is only a shower of west brits, and if you're any kind of man you'll be shouting for Munster! I am sick and tired of it to be honest. These people by the way are not members of any rugby club, nor do they coach youngesters in rugby nor have they ever played rugby at any level! But they are members of the Munster Supporters Club and have tickets for every match! The closer the game comes the more the hype will be and I am sure it will be a great day for Irish sport but save me this drivel!
And that is precisely why the Gaa have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Would like to see Leinster win it - the Munster lot are so up themselves they can be hard to stick. Also don't like the fact that for some of them, Munster comes before Ireland on their loyalty list.
Fully expect Ulster to be involved in the final stages of the HC next season.
It would be a mercy killing if someone shafted that Nugent guy with his hyperbole "Glory Glory Munster".
Even more ridiculous is Brand Leinster criticing Munster for their Brandness or vice versa.
It's unfortunate for Irish people that if we look forward to and want to watch some top class rugby from the countries best players we have to be treated as if our brains were in our arse, pummelled with the most inane commentary drivel and peppered with 'stereohype' about Brand Leinster and Brand Munster.
Quote from: Main Street on April 14, 2009, 12:04:25 PM
It would be a mercy killing if someone shafted that Nugent guy with his hyperbole "Glory Glory Munster".
Even more ridiculous is Brand Leinster criticing Munster for their Brandness or vice versa.
It's unfortunate for Irish people that if we look forward to and want to watch some top class rugby from the countries best players we have to be treated as if our brains were in our arse, pummelled with the most inane commentary drivel and peppered with 'stereohype' about Brand Leinster and Brand Munster.
:D :D :D My Brandness is better than your brandness!!!
Not bothered that much either way but If i had to choose then I hope Munster win.
Clever move by Leinster re Tickets. After the red invasion last time around, they are allowing their season ticket holders buy 6 each for this game, which should ensure most Leinster tickets end up in the hands of Leinster fans.
Munster season ticket holders are only allowed buy 1 each.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 02:06:07 PM
Not bothered that much either way but If i had to choose then I hope Munster win.
Teams in red do it for you?
;)
I'm a complete neutral when it comes to the semi-final. I've got my ticket for the final and I've booked the accomodation so just looking forward to the weekend in Edinburgh in May. The success of both teams is great for Irish rugby and hopefully Ulster will be more competitive next season as well. It's amazing how strong Ireland is internationally with such few professional sides.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 13, 2009, 03:39:28 AM
QuoteLeinster looked very very fortunate to scrape by a poor looking bedraggled Quinns.
Yea a fantastic defensive performance against the form team in England yet it was fortunate, yet if it was Munster it would be epic, seriously some people haven't a clue if they thought Leinster were fortunate.
new to this thread but couldn't agree more with this comment from previous pages....
If Munster had of beaten one of the form sides with an excellent home record in the way Leinster did, everyone would be creaming themselves saying it was a typical Munster work man like performance and that all those fairies from Leinster who never have managed to win a game like that.
I think it will be a great game on May 2nd and that all the pressure, given the margin of their quarter final win will be on Munster, nothing new to them I know but it will mean that the pressure will be off Leinster to a certain extent and that can only be a good thing.
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 14, 2009, 03:41:53 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 13, 2009, 03:39:28 AM
QuoteLeinster looked very very fortunate to scrape by a poor looking bedraggled Quinns.
Yea a fantastic defensive performance against the form team in England yet it was fortunate, yet if it was Munster it would be epic, seriously some people haven't a clue if they thought Leinster were fortunate.
new to this thread but couldn't agree more with this comment from previous pages....
If Munster had of beaten one of the form sides with an excellent home record in the way Leinster did, everyone would be creaming themselves saying it was a typical Munster work man like performance and that all those fairies from Leinster who never have managed to win a game like that.
I think it will be a great game on May 2nd and that all the pressure, given the margin of their quarter final win will be on Munster, nothing new to them I know but it will mean that the pressure will be off Leinster to a certain extent and that can only be a good thing.
To be honest lads, I think you are overplaying this persecution complex. There's no doubt Leinster had a reputation for being soft a few years ago, but I don't think anyone would seriously level that at this Leinster side. In fact the Examiner's report of the Harlequins game was 'If you want thrills and spills, watch munster, but for grit and determination, Leinster are the team for you'.
this is the same Leinster team that didn't show up in Thomond a few weeks back. Grit etc? Are you having a laugh?
No persecution complex AZ I was just responding to Minder's fortunate tag and in fairness apart that c*nt Neil Francis the media coverage has turned for the better and Leinster are receiving more balanced reporting. Leinster went to Musgrave and won with grit and detemination last season, this year in Thomond Munster were at their clinical best and demonstrated why they are the best team in Europe.
Anyway AZ, nothing wrong with a persecution complex as you should know, sure it's Munsters success built on it ;)
QuoteIt's unfortunate for Irish people that if we look forward to and want to watch some top class rugby from the countries best players we have to be treated as if our brains were in our arse, pummelled with the most inane commentary drivel and peppered with 'stereohype' about Brand Leinster and Brand Munster.
Best post on this thread by a mile :D
Quote from: INDIANA on April 14, 2009, 04:29:00 PM
this is the same Leinster team that didn't show up in Thomond a few weeks back. Grit etc? Are you having a laugh?
That same Leinster team bullied the bejaysus out of Munster for a good half hour. Only for Doc couldn't kick his own arse that day, it would have been a different game. This particular Leinster team are not your father's team, including that big soft Shite Francis.
QuoteAnyway AZ, nothing wrong with a persecution complex as you should know, sure it's Munsters success built on it Wink
And passion. Don't forget the passion. :D
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 02:06:07 PM
Not bothered that much either way but If i had to choose then I hope Munster win.
It wouldnt surprise me that you would support Munster ahead of your own province when you support British soccer ahead of your own country... ;) it must be a British soccer fan thing where they can just pick what team they like to support or follow ???
Quote from: Tankie on April 14, 2009, 08:50:54 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 02:06:07 PM
Not bothered that much either way but If i had to choose then I hope Munster win.
It wouldnt surprise me that you would support Munster ahead of your own province when you support British soccer ahead of your own country... ;) it must be a British soccer fan thing where they can just pick what team they like to support or follow ???
Care to explain the bit in bold?
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 10:00:58 PM
Quote from: Tankie on April 14, 2009, 08:50:54 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 02:06:07 PM
Not bothered that much either way but If i had to choose then I hope Munster win.
It wouldnt surprise me that you would support Munster ahead of your own province when you support British soccer ahead of your own country... ;) it must be a British soccer fan thing where they can just pick what team they like to support or follow ???
Care to explain the bit in bold?
well you choose to support British soccer ahead of the Irish game and with this you enhance and fund the English game and soccer team. hence I would not be surprised that you would just choose to pick Munster ahead of your own province....
Lets not ruin this thread though as we have been down this road before and that just they way you soccer lads work i guess!
Quote from: Tankie on April 14, 2009, 11:29:13 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 10:00:58 PM
Quote from: Tankie on April 14, 2009, 08:50:54 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 02:06:07 PM
Not bothered that much either way but If i had to choose then I hope Munster win.
It wouldnt surprise me that you would support Munster ahead of your own province when you support British soccer ahead of your own country... ;) it must be a British soccer fan thing where they can just pick what team they like to support or follow ???
Care to explain the bit in bold?
well you choose to support British soccer ahead of the Irish game and with this you enhance and fund the English game and soccer team. hence I would not be surprised that you would just choose to pick Munster ahead of your own province....
Lets not ruin this thread though as we have been down this road before and that just they way you soccer lads work i guess!
First off you started it with your usual bullshite,you are like a broken record
Secondly what Irish game do I choose to support a British soccer team over?
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 11:30:56 PM
Quote from: Tankie on April 14, 2009, 11:29:13 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 10:00:58 PM
Quote from: Tankie on April 14, 2009, 08:50:54 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 02:06:07 PM
Not bothered that much either way but If i had to choose then I hope Munster win.
It wouldnt surprise me that you would support Munster ahead of your own province when you support British soccer ahead of your own country... ;) it must be a British soccer fan thing where they can just pick what team they like to support or follow ???
Care to explain the bit in bold?
well you choose to support British soccer ahead of the Irish game and with this you enhance and fund the English game and soccer team. hence I would not be surprised that you would just choose to pick Munster ahead of your own province....
Lets not ruin this thread though as we have been down this road before and that just they way you soccer lads work i guess!
First off you started it with your usual bullshite,you are like a broken record
Secondly what Irish game do I choose to support a British soccer team over?
i aint getting into this in this thread as it has been a great thread all season. I really dont really care too much for Lunsters anyway!
Quote from: Tankie on April 14, 2009, 11:36:58 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 11:30:56 PM
Quote from: Tankie on April 14, 2009, 11:29:13 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 10:00:58 PM
Quote from: Tankie on April 14, 2009, 08:50:54 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 02:06:07 PM
Not bothered that much either way but If i had to choose then I hope Munster win.
It wouldnt surprise me that you would support Munster ahead of your own province when you support British soccer ahead of your own country... ;) it must be a British soccer fan thing where they can just pick what team they like to support or follow ???
Care to explain the bit in bold?
well you choose to support British soccer ahead of the Irish game and with this you enhance and fund the English game and soccer team. hence I would not be surprised that you would just choose to pick Munster ahead of your own province....
Lets not ruin this thread though as we have been down this road before and that just they way you soccer lads work i guess!
First off you started it with your usual bullshite,you are like a broken record
Secondly what Irish game do I choose to support a British soccer team over?
i aint getting into this in this thread as it has been a great thread all season. I really dont care to much for Lunsters anyway!
Why did you start it then?
Typical Dub ::)
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2009, 02:18:46 PM
Clever move by Leinster re Tickets. After the red invasion last time around, they are allowing their season ticket holders buy 6 each for this game, which should ensure most Leinster tickets end up in the hands of Leinster fans.
Munster season ticket holders are only allowed buy 1 each.
There is some serious trouble over this, alot of fans have not got tickets as some bought more than 6 etc. but i think if there were 25k Leinsterfans at the game i will be very happy.
Quote from: Tankie on April 14, 2009, 11:41:40 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2009, 02:18:46 PM
Clever move by Leinster re Tickets. After the red invasion last time around, they are allowing their season ticket holders buy 6 each for this game, which should ensure most Leinster tickets end up in the hands of Leinster fans.
Munster season ticket holders are only allowed buy 1 each.
There is some serious trouble over this, alot of fans have not got tickets as some bought more than 6 etc. but i think if there were 25k Leinsterfans at the game i will be very happy.
Same craic down here. We got this email from Munster Supporters Club this morning. Also, Leinster Fans Passwords were doing the rounds down here. I'd say they are all cancelled now. Luckily I only purchased what I was entitled to.
*****
Dear Member,
We would ask that all members read this email
1. Multiple Tickets Purchased
An email was issued to all members on Thursday last 9th April with a link to a news item regarding the allocation of tickets to members for the HC semi-final. Although it clearly stated that All Full Members and All Associate Members with Combined Season Tickets were entitled to purchase ONE ticket each, we had a number of members who today purchased more than one and in some cases numerous tickets. All EXTRA tickets purchased have been cancelled. This was allowed to occur due to an error on the Ticketmaster system.
Those members who purchased more than once will be allocated one ticket ONLY and this will be posted. We have been given details of members who have purchased over their allocation and will be contacting them in due course.
Because some members purchased more than one ticket ALL E-TICKETS are now being cancelled. Every member who has purchased a ticket or who does so this week will now be issued with a paper ticket for the match. Those who have already purchased will be allocated the same seat/terrace ticket. These tickets will be sent by post. This also applies to those who purchased through the public sale.
We apologise to any members inconvenienced by the above. Ticketmaster have issued the following statement;
TICKETMASTER
Statement re Heineken Cup Semi-Final
<i>As a result of human error customers who were issued passwords to purchase their Heineken Cup tickets today (Tues) were able to use their password more than once. This error has been corrected and these passwords can now only be used a single time.
All customers who were entitled to purchase tickets for the Heineken Cup semi-final in Croke Park were issued with clear guidelines as to their ticket entitlement. At Ticketmaster we run post sales checks on all purchases and where any customer has been found to have purchased more than their allocation, any additional tickets will be cancelled and blocked from entry. These tickets will be put back on-sale to ensure that other customers receive their fair entitlement</i>.
Very quiet here, given that the biggest club game in irelands history will take place in little over a week.
Does anyone know how much the tickets for the game are?
Quote from: Mickey Linden on April 24, 2009, 05:57:04 PM
Does anyone know how much the tickets for the game are?
20 or 25 for the hill , 45 for the stand . Plus Tout master get a €5 per stand ticket.
Quote from: fred the red on April 24, 2009, 05:53:16 PM
Very quiet here, given that the biggest club game in irelands history will take place in little over a week.
Not that many Rugby fans on here. I'm sure it will pick up, this weekend should be interesting in terms of avoiding injury's as both teams are playing their best tonight and tomorrow .
Quote from: Gnevin on April 24, 2009, 06:03:39 PM
Quote from: fred the red on April 24, 2009, 05:53:16 PM
Very quiet here, given that the biggest club game in irelands history will take place in little over a week.
Not that many Rugby fans on here. I'm sure it will pick up, this weekend should be interesting in terms of avoiding injury's as both teams are playing their best tonight and tomorrow .
True, better chat happening on rugby forums though if you want to chat about it. no point posting much here til a few days before the game
Quote from: Tankie on April 24, 2009, 06:28:09 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 24, 2009, 06:03:39 PM
Quote from: fred the red on April 24, 2009, 05:53:16 PM
Very quiet here, given that the biggest club game in irelands history will take place in little over a week.
Not that many Rugby fans on here. I'm sure it will pick up, this weekend should be interesting in terms of avoiding injury's as both teams are playing their best tonight and tomorrow .
True, better chat happening on rugby forums though if you want to chat about it. no point posting much here til a few days before the game
Looks like rob kearney is going to miss the game he has the mumps. Di i hear it announced that Eoin Reddan is Joing Leinster from Wasps on a 3 year deal.
Quote from: the Deel Rover on April 28, 2009, 02:32:31 PM
Quote from: Tankie on April 24, 2009, 06:28:09 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 24, 2009, 06:03:39 PM
Quote from: fred the red on April 24, 2009, 05:53:16 PM
Very quiet here, given that the biggest club game in irelands history will take place in little over a week.
Not that many Rugby fans on here. I'm sure it will pick up, this weekend should be interesting in terms of avoiding injury's as both teams are playing their best tonight and tomorrow .
True, better chat happening on rugby forums though if you want to chat about it. no point posting much here til a few days before the game
Looks like rob kearney is going to miss the game he has the mumps. Di i hear it announced that Eoin Reddan is Joing Leinster from Wasps on a 3 year deal.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/irish/8021389.stm
Reddan agrees deal with Leinster
Eoin Reddan did not figure in Ireland's Six Nations Grand Slam
Ireland scrum-half Eoin Reddan has agreed a three-year deal with Leinster and will join the province this summer.
Reddan joined Wasps from Munster in 2005 and has won the Powergen Cup, the Heineken Cup and the Guinness Premiership during his four-year stay.
The scrum-half made his debut on the international stage against France as part of the Ireland Six Nations squad.
He has won 14 caps, including two at the 2007 Rugby World Cup, and is eager to regain a place in the Irish set-up.
Reddan was not part of the Ireland squad which won the Grand Slam last month.
"It's tough for me leaving Wasps as I've thoroughly enjoyed myself over the last four years and I can't overstate how great a club it is," said Reddan.
"I would like to thank everyone for their support, particularly in my decision to go home to look to further my international career.
"I am looking forward to representing Leinster next season - they are a top club and have proved that year in, year out on the European stage.
"The biggest thing I will take from time at Wasps is the experience of playing on the biggest days of the season, playing in the biggest games and performing consistently as a team - that is an experience that will stay with me forever."
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2009, 03:34:44 PM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on April 28, 2009, 02:32:31 PM
Quote from: Tankie on April 24, 2009, 06:28:09 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 24, 2009, 06:03:39 PM
Quote from: fred the red on April 24, 2009, 05:53:16 PM
Very quiet here, given that the biggest club game in irelands history will take place in little over a week.
Not that many Rugby fans on here. I'm sure it will pick up, this weekend should be interesting in terms of avoiding injury's as both teams are playing their best tonight and tomorrow .
True, better chat happening on rugby forums though if you want to chat about it. no point posting much here til a few days before the game
Looks like rob kearney is going to miss the game he has the mumps. Di i hear it announced that Eoin Reddan is Joing Leinster from Wasps on a 3 year deal.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/irish/8021389.stm
Reddan agrees deal with Leinster
Eoin Reddan did not figure in Ireland's Six Nations Grand Slam
Ireland scrum-half Eoin Reddan has agreed a three-year deal with Leinster and will join the province this summer.
Reddan joined Wasps from Munster in 2005 and has won the Powergen Cup, the Heineken Cup and the Guinness Premiership during his four-year stay.
The scrum-half made his debut on the international stage against France as part of the Ireland Six Nations squad.
He has won 14 caps, including two at the 2007 Rugby World Cup, and is eager to regain a place in the Irish set-up.
Reddan was not part of the Ireland squad which won the Grand Slam last month.
"It's tough for me leaving Wasps as I've thoroughly enjoyed myself over the last four years and I can't overstate how great a club it is," said Reddan.
"I would like to thank everyone for their support, particularly in my decision to go home to look to further my international career.
"I am looking forward to representing Leinster next season - they are a top club and have proved that year in, year out on the European stage.
"The biggest thing I will take from time at Wasps is the experience of playing on the biggest days of the season, playing in the biggest games and performing consistently as a team - that is an experience that will stay with me forever."
Should be a good signing
Reddan will bring Leinster on a couple of notches, he is a very good player and Leinsters scrum half play from Witaker and others has simply not been good enough. A pity they don't have him on sunday to help them make a game of it.
Quote from: fred the red on April 24, 2009, 05:53:16 PM
Very quiet here, given that the biggest club game in irelands history will take place in little over a week.
The whole build up seems low key.
I wonder did the Lions announcement divert attention away from this?
Also RTE have nothing to gain from pumping the event, since Sky have the rights.
I have a feeling Leinster could spring a surprise.
Munster are playing champagne rugby and look like a team that no longer has the element of fear.
Perhaps they were better off when they had those doubts in their back their minds and were going out in games with something to prove.
Judging by the small sample of fans I know, the Leinster ones are determined to get behind their team and not have a repeat of 2006 when Munster owned Lansdowne.
The Munster ones seem to have half an eye on Edinburgh and it was mentioned that this would be the last time they get to see Dr Phil bottle it at the sight of the red jersey. :D
Ultimately it matters not a hoot what a couple of random fans think, but maybe, just maybe a bit of complacency could infect the Munster players' minds.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 28, 2009, 08:01:30 PM
Quote from: fred the red on April 24, 2009, 05:53:16 PM
Very quiet here, given that the biggest club game in irelands history will take place in little over a week.
The whole build up seems low key.
I wonder did the Lions announcement divert attention away from this?
Also RTE have nothing to gain from pumping the event, since Sky have the rights.
I have a feeling Leinster could spring a surprise.
Munster are playing champagne rugby and look like a team that no longer has the element of fear.
Perhaps they were better off when they had those doubts in their back their minds and were going out in games with something to prove.
Judging by the small sample of fans I know, the Leinster ones are determined to get behind their team and not have a repeat of 2006 when Munster owned Lansdowne.
The Munster ones seem to have half an eye on Edinburgh and it was mentioned that this would be the last time they get to see Dr Phil bottle it at the sight of the red jersey. :D
Ultimately it matters not a hoot what a couple of random fans think, but maybe, just maybe a bit of complacency could infect the Munster players' minds.
Hard to get excited for what I think it going to be a hammering
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on April 14, 2009, 02:06:07 PM
Not bothered that much either way but If i had to choose then I hope Munster win.
Jeez Louise. That's like a Laois man saying before an upcoming Laois v Offaly Leinster championship match:
"I'm not that bothered about GAA, but if I had to choose I hope Offaly win - they have the tradition and passion".
Its a credit to the Munster bandwagon and propaganda machine that so many Leinstermen think similarly. Despite the team and squad being represented by so many counties. There'd probably be less counties represented if a proper Leinster football side was picked! (Definitely the case in hurling).
It would be lovely for Leinster to win just once, and up to Christmas I was sure this was going to be Leinster's year. But Leinster haven't been playing well, while Munster are playing out of their skins.
Kearney is a huge loss I think. Girv wasn't good last week, hopefully he's a good performance inside him. If Luke had a few more games this year in the position, I'd nearly be tempted to have him at 15.
Leinster's pack have nothing to fear in the scrum or in open play - but we could get an awful hammering in the line-out. I'd be very tempted to play Toner and leave Big Mal in reserve for a big final 20 minutes. I hope Jackman is practising hitting Heaslip and Elsom with his darts, just to keep it away from POC.
If Jennings doesnt perform, then Sean O'Brien better get the call sooner rather than later. The Carlowman is continuing to improve and this time of game should suit him.
I'd definitely play Sexton. He made such a difference last week that it surely can't be ignored.
Horgan has been pretty pants this year, but just because its Munster I think I'd start him ahead of Nacewa. Though if Sexton's at 10, Contepomi at 12, then Darcy should get 14.
Contepomi was poor again from penalties v Glasgow at the weekend, and given its his first game at Croker, I think the only way we'll break even in kicking is of O'Gara misses as many as the Doc, rather than Doc nailing as many as O'Gara! Contepomi really needs his first couple to be straight in front of the posts from 20 yards.
Quote from: Gnevin on April 29, 2009, 12:39:12 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 28, 2009, 08:01:30 PM
Quote from: fred the red on April 24, 2009, 05:53:16 PM
Very quiet here, given that the biggest club game in irelands history will take place in little over a week.
The whole build up seems low key.
I wonder did the Lions announcement divert attention away from this?
Also RTE have nothing to gain from pumping the event, since Sky have the rights.
I have a feeling Leinster could spring a surprise.
Munster are playing champagne rugby and look like a team that no longer has the element of fear.
Perhaps they were better off when they had those doubts in their back their minds and were going out in games with something to prove.
Judging by the small sample of fans I know, the Leinster ones are determined to get behind their team and not have a repeat of 2006 when Munster owned Lansdowne.
The Munster ones seem to have half an eye on Edinburgh and it was mentioned that this would be the last time they get to see Dr Phil bottle it at the sight of the red jersey. :D
Ultimately it matters not a hoot what a couple of random fans think, but maybe, just maybe a bit of complacency could infect the Munster players' minds.
Hard to get excited for what I think it going to be a hammering
I know how you feel. Where are you in the ground?
Any of ye hear this from Gift Grub
http://audiostore.todayfm.com/audio/breakfast/Gift_munster09.mp3
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/AJB_photo/Brokeback-Mountain.jpg)
Need to build up some spite....
(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3692/phpu3ne6ppm.jpg)
On that vein, Leinster unveiled a new boot deal this week....
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SQ0eRaM1qsg/SQBSUeBKezI/AAAAAAAABow/DICyzQzeejM/s320/pic25547.jpg)
http://audiostore.todayfm.com/audio/breakfast/Gift_munster09.mp3 (http://audiostore.todayfm.com/audio/breakfast/Gift_munster09.mp3)
and the response
http://audiostore.todayfm.com/audio/breakfast/Gift_Leinster.mp3 (http://audiostore.todayfm.com/audio/breakfast/Gift_Leinster.mp3)
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 29, 2009, 03:30:34 PM
On that vein, Leinster unveiled a new boot deal this week....
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SQ0eRaM1qsg/SQBSUeBKezI/AAAAAAAABow/DICyzQzeejM/s320/pic25547.jpg)
And do Lunsters wear half-heels??? ;D
3 days to go getting excited now.
From Cormac Hayes Earlier, if anyone knows who wrote it please contact me, Id love to credit the right person:
Can I bring to your attention a new service that is on offer to you to co-incide with the Heineken Cup semi-final in Croke Park between Munster and Leinster on May 2 2009.
We understand that the lofty levels of the competition at this stage can be bewildering to Leinster supporters hoping to attend the match given their paucity of experience at this, the business end of the competition, compounding this is the fact that the match will be held in our great pantheon of the GAA, Croke Park, otherwise known as Headquarters by us, your provincial brethren from the non metropolitan parts of this great island of ours. We understand that crossing that gaping physical and metaphysical divide of your Metropolis known as the Liffey is an epic journey from the leafy suburbs that you are more familiar with.
We can empathise with you. We can hope that you can learn from our great odyssey to secure our holy grail.
In the spirit of the great grand slam and in preparation for our unity behind the Green Lions Tour we can help you.
*** Hire a Munster Buddy for the day!! ***
Our Munster supporter will meet with you at a prearranged venue on the Southside of the Liffey of your choice.
He will advise you on the best departure times and pitstop venues between your rendezvous point and Headquarters that will ensure that you make your seat between the end of the minor match and before the kickoff. ( Have no fear that your Buddy will be better acquainted with this part of the city than he is of the back of his hand.) Note: How well can you see the back of your hand when drinking pints)
He will ensure safe passage to (and possibly from, depending on result) the Stadium.
He will cover the costs of all the drink you can consume between rendezvous time and kick off (Our volunteers have been informed to expect that this will involve a maximum of 4 pints. At this point you will probably collapse and your buddy has been instructed to carry you to your seat)
Your Buddy can regale you with stories of our epic campaigns in 2006 and 2008, revisit the debate on Cardiff roof open roof closed and outline the treatment we had envisaged for Paddy Wallace had Stephen Jones's kick gone over or outline the finer details of what is required of a Lions Captain. A huge menu of subjects many of which have nothing to do with rugby are available for discussion which your buddy will have an opinion on. (Warning: these opinions are unlikely to be informed or based on any established fact and may not bear any relevance to reality)
Your Buddy will make the ultimate sacrifice and not wear red at the match to conform to the daft e-mail circulated by your Provincial Branch. ( However the Buddy is not obligated to remain silent or refrain from abusing the referee, any officials other Leinster supports, RTE, Leicester, random punters they encounter at any stage during the day or singing songs from provinces that are still playing Rugby with round balls during training)
This premium service can be secured at a value for money recession price of a SPARE TICKET. This unique offer will enable you to gain maximum value from your Buddy by choosing to have them seated beside you throughout the game or for as long as you are still attending.
Don't miss this incredible offer. When is the next time you will be in a semi-final!!
Contact the Leinster Munster Buddy Service by return e-mail if you wish to avail of this offer.
*** Early bird bonus ***
For any Leinster supporters who avail of this service there is a winners bonus. In the unlikely and unforeseeable event of Leinster winning the Semi-final, your Munster Buddy will have available to purchase at face value a ticket to the Heineken final in Edinburgh on May 23 2009. In fact many will be able to offer you full travel packages at rock bottom prices and will be able to source at least 20 other tickets should you wish to bring your fellow Leinster supporters to Murrayfield. But lets not contemplate that horror story
http://www.bruffrfc.com/new-service-to-leinster-rugby-supporters/2009/04/30/
:D :D
not sure who i want to win this one. Being a Derry man and never having played rugby in my life, im totally neutral. I have supported both provinces in this competition over the years. I have my final tickets bought 11 months ago so im in a win win situation. Irish team going to be there. Having been to Cardiff last year, i saw first hand the colour and atmosphere Munster fans bring to an occassion, it was fantastic. But as Leinster haven't won it yet, i might sway toward them a bit. Then again, i would love to see Munster win back to bqck to equal Leicester and Toulouse. Cant wait for it, nor the 23rd !!
So who's heading lads? I hope to be up for about 2 o'clock around Croker. Maybe the Iveagh House or somewhere like that.
I'll be there but finding it hard to get excited. 2006 will never leave me :'(
Not going to the game, have a stag down in Cork of all places, should be fun as some of the lads are diehard Leinster fans including Shane Horgans cousin.
Team Just announced
LEINSTER:
15: Isa Nacewa
14: Shane Horgan
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Felipe Contepomi
9: Chris Whitaker
1: Cian Healy
2: Bernard Jackman
3: Stan Wright
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Malcolm O'Kelly
6: Rocky Elsom
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip
REPLACEMENTS:
16: John Fogarty
17: Ronan McCormack
18: Devin Toner
19: Sean O'Brien
20: Simon Keogh
21: Jonathan Sexton
22: Girvan Dempsey
Thats a big call at 15! Has Nacewa played there before for Leinster? Has he EVER played at 15 before?
Munster team to play Leinster in the Heineken Cup semi-final at Croke Park on Saturday 2 May:
P Warwick, D Howlett, K Earls, L Mafi, I Dowling, P Stringer, R O'Gara, M Horan, J Flannery, J Hayes, D O'Callaghan, P O'Connell capt, A Quinlan, D Wallace, D Leamy.
Replacements: D Fogarty, T Buckley, M O'Driscoll, N Ronan, M Prendergast, B Murphy, D Hurley
QuoteThats a big call at 15! Has Nacewa played there before for Leinster? Has he EVER played at 15 before?
He was signed as a full back outstanding for the Auckland Blues in that position in the Super 14.
Personally I think it's a great move.
QuotePersonally I think it's a great move.
Agreed. Is it just me or are the Munster fans overly confident. Everyone of them I've spoken to doesn't give Leinster a chance of getting within a score of them?
QuoteAgreed. Is it just me or are the Munster fans overly confident. Everyone of them I've spoken to doesn't give Leinster a chance of getting within a score of them?
It's not you, every Munster fan I've talked to really believe they'll wipe the floor with Leinster. The thing that has given me the greatest hope for Saturday is O'Driscolls interview on The Rugby Club, he looked very relaxed and just radated confidence. With the backline picked I think Leinster are going to go for the jugular and if they can silence the 50K odd Munster fans they really can pull this off. Here's hoping...
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/AJB_photo/obama.jpg)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 01, 2009, 01:48:05 PM
QuoteAgreed. Is it just me or are the Munster fans overly confident. Everyone of them I've spoken to doesn't give Leinster a chance of getting within a score of them?
It's not you, every Munster fan I've talked to really believe they'll wipe the floor with Leinster. The thing that has given me the greatest hope for Saturday is O'Driscolls interview on The Rugby Club, he looked very relaxed and just radated confidence. With the backline picked I think Leinster are going to go for the jugular and if they can silence the 50K odd Munster fans they really can pull this off. Here's hoping...
Dinny,I watched that interview, he seemed remarkably calm, and looking forward to the day. i suspect his first tackle might just be a very big hit
QuoteDinny,I watched that interview, he seemed remarkably calm, and looking forward to the day. i suspect his first tackle might just be a very big hit
i thought the contrast with the Munster players DOC and Flannery in particular was interesting as both of them came across very nervous and almost tetchy.....
Fingers crossed for a Leinster win.
I actually feel sick thinking about the game, i even find it hard to watch interviews and programs talking about the game.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 01, 2009, 01:48:05 PM
QuoteAgreed. Is it just me or are the Munster fans overly confident. Everyone of them I've spoken to doesn't give Leinster a chance of getting within a score of them?
It's not you, every Munster fan I've talked to really believe they'll wipe the floor with Leinster. The thing that has given me the greatest hope for Saturday is O'Driscolls interview on The Rugby Club, he looked very relaxed and just radated confidence. With the backline picked I think Leinster are going to go for the jugular and if they can silence the 50K odd Munster fans they really can pull this off. Here's hoping...
Not this one!!!
Agreed about the rugby club interviews - BOD was very cool. Flannery came across as jumpy and nervous. both himself and O'Callaghan were at great pains to point out Leinsters strengths and achievements - almost reading from a list and stopping to think what they'd left out fromthe script!
I think this will be a leinster win. i like the look of their starting xv but the bench is very weak - an area munster have a big advantage.
It'll probably rest on the doc's goal kicking and given it his last dance for leinster i expect a big game from him.
Quotei suspect his first tackle might just be a very big hit
Something like this would set the tone nicely
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_9_y5gYgvY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_9_y5gYgvY)
QuoteNot this one!!!
Feck off!!! Lunsters don't count..
I wonder are their any Munster born and bred that are supporting Leinster? I suppose whoevers winning there'll bound to be some bandwagoners jumping.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 01, 2009, 03:11:00 PM
QuoteNot this one!!!
Feck off!!! Lunsters don't count..
it must be his Leinster blood holding him back from calling for a mass slaughter of hi own people ;)
Quote from: thejuice on May 01, 2009, 03:27:20 PM
I wonder are their any Munster born and bred that are supporting Leinster? I suppose whoevers winning there'll bound to be some bandwagoners jumping.
No there a Lunsters because Munster were the first dominant provincial side and alot of Leinster people generally from Laoise/off/KK areas jumped on the bandwagon, the would be alot in the west too. But it would be rare that you got a Meinster as Munster were the team to support. Also you gotta remember most Lunsters only discovered rugby in the past 5years..
(http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq241/isaac4leinster/Healy_Robocop.jpg)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 01, 2009, 01:33:39 PM
QuoteThats a big call at 15! Has Nacewa played there before for Leinster? Has he EVER played at 15 before?
He was signed as a full back outstanding for the Auckland Blues in that position in the Super 14.
Personally I think it's a great move.
Cheers for the heads up on Nacewa DB. I havent really paid too much attention down under since it was the Super 12! Is not as good as it used to be IMO and the southern hemisphere version of the ELV's has turned most games into a try fest, which is probably what some people want to see, but its not my cup of tea :-\
Quote from: Tankie on May 01, 2009, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: thejuice on May 01, 2009, 03:27:20 PM
I wonder are their any Munster born and bred that are supporting Leinster? I suppose whoevers winning there'll bound to be some bandwagoners jumping.
No there a Lunsters because Munster were the first dominant provincial side and alot of Leinster people generally from Laoise/off/KK areas jumped on the bandwagon, the would be alot in the west too. But it would be rare that you got a Meinster as Munster were the team to support. Also you gotta remember most Lunsters only discovered rugby in the past 5years..
To be honest I didnt know there was inter-provincial rugby till Ulster won the HC. I thought you just had the likes of Bucaneers, Cork Con and Navan with the next level being International. And in that sense I've never felt compelled to suddenly start cheering either team. I'll watch the game and as I said earlier I'll cheer whichever Irish team get to the final.
If Leinster people who support Munster are called Lunsters,
what do you call Connacht people who support them? ???
huge game ahead tomorrow really looking forward to it, just on the road to croker now (yerra its a home game for me ;) ),
I'd expect some great early tackling with big hits to set the tempo for the game. The friendships made with Ireland will mean nothing tomorrow at 5.30.
Paul O'C is backed for first try 40/1. Twice this year he has paid out for me....
Hard to know how it will go but if Munster really front up like they did against the Ospreys it could make a long day for the Lady's but I dont think they will , both teams know each other well, but i'd expect an advantage in the Munster forward to win enough ball from both scrum and lineout.
Looking for a big game from Earls who has been on fire recently and backed up by Dougie and Mafi and the very underrated Dowling there is a backline who will expose any chinks in the Leinster armour and a powerful boot of Warwick to keep Leinster pinned backed.
Leinster have named an attacking backline , I would try and expose Horgan though defensively. But would expect a huge game form BOD he has had a great year so far.
Leinster really need Comptipomi to show up in this game, its his last chance to perform against Munster on the big stage, but he will be targetted early and often as will O'Gara on our side. Thats the nature of playing No 10.
O'Leary is a big loss but stringer will provide great cover. However I am worried about Mike Prendegast and his lack of game time if he needs to come on.
Time to STAND UP AND FIGHT...
What is the ticket situation like now?
Are some coming available like the All Ireland Final tickets inevitably do the day before or are they still like hen's teeth?
Quote from: Gaffer on May 01, 2009, 07:35:54 PM
What is the ticket situation like now?
Are some coming available like the All Ireland Final tickets inevitably do the day before or are they still like hen's teeth?
pretty much like all events, if you are involved in the club game etc you should be fine but if you are on a bandwagon its a good bit tougher!
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2009, 06:26:30 PM
If Leinster people who support Munster are called Lunsters,
what do you call Connacht people who support them? ???
Cunsters.
Quote from: thejuice on May 01, 2009, 05:30:31 PM
To be honest I didnt know there was inter-provincial rugby till Ulster won the HC. I thought you just had the likes of Bucaneers, Cork Con and Navan with the next level being International. And in that sense I've never felt compelled to suddenly start cheering either team. I'll watch the game and as I said earlier I'll cheer whichever Irish team get to the final.
For me that's about the time when inter-pro rugby died. Now there are just four senior clubs with a load of foreigners making up the teams. Used to be Ulster rugby supporters would have preferred Munster, now I know no one here that wants Munster to win.
Quote from: Roger on May 01, 2009, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: thejuice on May 01, 2009, 05:30:31 PM
To be honest I didnt know there was inter-provincial rugby till Ulster won the HC. I thought you just had the likes of Bucaneers, Cork Con and Navan with the next level being International. And in that sense I've never felt compelled to suddenly start cheering either team. I'll watch the game and as I said earlier I'll cheer whichever Irish team get to the final.
For me that's about the time when inter-pro rugby died. Now there are just four senior clubs with a load of foreigners making up the teams. Used to be Ulster rugby supporters would have preferred Munster, now I know no one here that wants Munster to win.
lies.
im from ulster and i want them to win. I know lots more in the same boat.
i cant understand why anyone wouldn't support another irish team in the final !
Quote from: fred the red on May 01, 2009, 10:10:01 PM
Quote from: Roger on May 01, 2009, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: thejuice on May 01, 2009, 05:30:31 PM
To be honest I didnt know there was inter-provincial rugby till Ulster won the HC. I thought you just had the likes of Bucaneers, Cork Con and Navan with the next level being International. And in that sense I've never felt compelled to suddenly start cheering either team. I'll watch the game and as I said earlier I'll cheer whichever Irish team get to the final.
For me that's about the time when inter-pro rugby died. Now there are just four senior clubs with a load of foreigners making up the teams. Used to be Ulster rugby supporters would have preferred Munster, now I know no one here that wants Munster to win.
lies.
im from ulster and i want them to win. I know lots more in the same boat.
Well you're the first. In my club and those I know in rugby circles they all prefer Leinster to Munster. My dad is old school and he prefers Munster.
Btw, do I know you? About which bit do you feel the need to call me a liar?
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 01, 2009, 10:35:34 PM
i cant understand why anyone wouldn't support another irish team in the final !
It's only a semi-final tomorrow.
yeah i know but there is going to be an irish team in the final. so if its Munster, very few from Ulster will support them but if it's Leinster they will support them ?
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 01, 2009, 10:42:08 PM
yeah i know but there is going to be an irish team in the final. so if its Munster, very few from Ulster will support them but if it's Leinster they will support them ?
Don't really know to be honest. I just think there is a general preference in Ulster rugby circles for a preference of Leinster and Connaught over Munster these days. My dad can't understand that. It used to be a general thing in rugby circles that Leinster were considered as 'the establishment' or the 'fancy dans' or something and there was a general Munster, Ulster and Connaught binding against them. Nothing sinister, just a preference.
Quote from: Roger on May 01, 2009, 10:38:36 PM
Quote from: fred the red on May 01, 2009, 10:10:01 PM
Quote from: Roger on May 01, 2009, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: thejuice on May 01, 2009, 05:30:31 PM
To be honest I didnt know there was inter-provincial rugby till Ulster won the HC. I thought you just had the likes of Bucaneers, Cork Con and Navan with the next level being International. And in that sense I've never felt compelled to suddenly start cheering either team. I'll watch the game and as I said earlier I'll cheer whichever Irish team get to the final.
For me that's about the time when inter-pro rugby died. Now there are just four senior clubs with a load of foreigners making up the teams. Used to be Ulster rugby supporters would have preferred Munster, now I know no one here that wants Munster to win.
lies.
im from ulster and i want them to win. I know lots more in the same boat.
Well you're the first. In my club and those I know in rugby circles they all prefer Leinster to Munster. My dad is old school and he prefers Munster.
Btw, do I know you? About which bit do you feel the need to call me a liar?
thankfully, i dont know you.
You said that you know 'no one here' wants munster to win. obviously theres loads in ulster that want munster to win.
maybe it's just a general thing in sport that when a team gets established as winners, i.e Man U in Soccer, Armagh and Tyrone in Gaelic then people start despising them. I remember growing up and cheering against the likes of Steve Davis, Stephen Hendry, Eric Bristow, John McEnroe etc, for the simple reason that they were winners
Quote from: fred the red on May 01, 2009, 10:51:35 PM
thankfully, i dont know you.
My loss then ::)
QuoteYou said that you know 'no one here' wants munster to win. obviously theres loads in ulster that want munster to win.
I'm fairly involved in rugby circles and that is the case here. I'm sure there are people who want Munster to win apart from my dad, but I just don't know them.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 01, 2009, 10:51:50 PM
maybe it's just a general thing in sport that when a team gets established as winners, i.e Man U in Soccer, Armagh and Tyrone in Gaelic then people start despising them. I remember growing up and cheering against the likes of Steve Davis, Stephen Hendry, Eric Bristow, John McEnroe etc, for the simple reason that they were winners
That's quite possibly a big contributor.
Quote from: Roger on May 01, 2009, 10:56:07 PM
Quote from: fred the red on May 01, 2009, 10:51:35 PM
thankfully, i dont know you.
My loss then ::)
QuoteYou said that you know 'no one here' wants munster to win. obviously theres loads in ulster that want munster to win.
I'm fairly involved in rugby circles and that is the case here. I'm sure there are people who want Munster to win apart from my dad, but I just don't know them.
awwww so what you meant was that you
know of no one here who wants munster to wn, rather than you know no one here who wants munster to win.
you should make yourself clearer in future :-*
up Unster ;)
Quote from: fred the red on May 01, 2009, 10:59:31 PM
awwww so what you meant was that you know of no one here who wants munster to wn, rather than you know no one here who wants munster to win.
To me it means the same. What a difference a 2-letter word can make to some people.
Quoteup Unster ;)
:D
Have to say I've never heard of these terms like Lunster etc.
Is an Unster a support of both tomorrow??
Quote from: Roger on May 01, 2009, 11:03:03 PM
Quote from: fred the red on May 01, 2009, 10:59:31 PM
awwww so what you meant was that you know of no one here who wants munster to wn, rather than you know no one here who wants munster to win.
To me it means the same. What a difference a 2-letter word can make to some people.
Quoteup Unster ;)
:D
Have to say I've never heard of these terms like Lunster etc.
Is an Unster a support of both tomorrow??
Some people need edumacated.
on sunday i will be supporting Cardiff, for the simple reason that Leicester are winners, been there done that. If i wasnt from Ireland, i wouldnt be a big Munster fan either. Roger, i can understand Ulster Rugby supporters supporting Leinster tomorrow, but if Munster play Leicester/ Cardiff in the final, will you back Leicester/ Cardiff ?
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 01, 2009, 11:07:37 PM
on sunday i will be supporting Cardiff, for the simple reason that Leicester are winners, been there done that. If i wasnt from Ireland, i wouldnt be a big Munster fan either. Roger, i can understand Ulster Rugby supporters supporting Leinster tomorrow, but if Munster play Leicester/ Cardiff in the final, will you back Leicester/ Cardiff ?
If it was Leicester I'd want Munster to win. If it was Cardiff, I'd be indifferent. Before the break-up of the provincial set-up, as I see it, I'd have supported Munster. Too many foreigners and stuff these days and the professional game has diluted the Irishness of these teams. Don't draw any big Political conclusions about that, since 1999 I haven't really supported Ulster either. I am a season ticket holder at Ravenhill but I don't really care if the team wins too much, it's just a good night out. Tbh I support Ireland, I take an interest in clubs if it's a good game.
it has been interesting reading the rugby threads on this board over the last year or two. I thought that the bitchiness and bitterness that exists in soccer and GAA didnt exist in rugby. No matter, im not involved with any club or province, i just love the game and cant wait until Edinburgh 23rd May, i will be in Murrayfield with a Leinster or Munster scarf around my neck ! At this stage i dont care which
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 01, 2009, 11:29:36 PM
it has been interesting reading the rugby threads on this board over the last year or two. I thought that the bitchiness and bitterness that exists in soccer and GAA didnt exist in rugby. No matter, im not involved with any club or province, i just love the game and cant wait until Edinburgh 23rd May, i will be in Murrayfield with a Leinster or Munster scarf around my neck ! At this stage i dont care which
I don't think it does exist. There is no bitchiness or bitterness from me. Only slight preference as I like Cardiff. I'm happy enough whoever wins. My support for all Irish provincial teams has simply been diluted since the provincial sides went professional. If you have a good day out in Endinburgh and enjoy a good game, it's a good day for the sport as far as I'm concerned.
wasnt referring to you lad, was referring to the likes of people who support another province instead of their own and things like that for a change the bitterness doesnt totally refer to us up here :D
Well lads its been a good laugh chatting about the game and having the bit of banter, hope everyone enjoys the game tomorrow and for the lads coming up from the country have safe trip.
C'mon Leinster!!!!!!!
C'mon Leinster!
I woke up with a seriously bad feeling about this game. I'm having visions of the Doc having a big game, and Leinster lads talking about how great it is to beat a fantastic team like Munster, and now they need to go on and win the final. Jaysus.
Anyway, I have faith that Munster will be ready, and will not be any way complacent. I have faith they will, as always, give 100%, which is all we can ask of them.
They might play badly, or Leinster might play brilliantly, and Leinster may well win. If they do, i won't begrudge them one iota, although it will be an awful sickener. I would then obviously hope Leinster go on and win it out.
But I think Munster are big enough and good enough to beat Leinster most days, and I hope today is one of them.
Cuige Mumhan Abú
Stand up and Fight
Who, as a Longford man with a Cork mammy, should I cheer for? I have no inherent grá for Leinster yet I am 'from' there.
I like the Munster set up and, while there may be a few bandwagoners aboard, I find their supporters top class.
Feck it. I'll cheer on both teams cos the winnner of this will win the Heino, roysh!
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on May 02, 2009, 09:51:49 AM
Who, as a Longford man with a Cork mammy, should I cheer for? I have no inherent grá for Leinster yet I am 'from' there.
I like the Munster set up and, while there may be a few bandwagoners aboard, I find their supporters top class.
Feck it. I'll cheer on both teams cos the winnner of this will win the Heino, roysh!
I think people are mixing up their sports here.
Gaa is about where you're from.
Rugby is about who you identify with.
Soccer is about who was good when you were 7.
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2009, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on May 02, 2009, 09:51:49 AM
Who, as a Longford man with a Cork mammy, should I cheer for? I have no inherent grá for Leinster yet I am 'from' there.
I like the Munster set up and, while there may be a few bandwagoners aboard, I find their supporters top class.
Feck it. I'll cheer on both teams cos the winnner of this will win the Heino, roysh!
I think people are mixing up their sports here.
Gaa is about where you're from.
Rugby is about who you identify with.
Soccer is about who was good when you were 7.
Is there an applause smiley here?
In fairness, I think Leinster Rugby *now* is a different animal, and i would expect most newbies from Leinster, or at least the eastern part of Leinster, to be able to identify with the Leinster brand now, much moreso than 10 years ago say.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2009, 09:37:54 AM
I woke up with a seriously bad feeling about this game. I'm having visions of the Doc having a big game, and Leinster lads talking about how great it is to beat a fantastic team like Munster, and now they need to go on and win the final. Jaysus.
Anyway, I have faith that Munster will be ready, and will not be any way complacent. I have faith they will, as always, give 100%, which is all we can ask of them.
They might play badly, or Leinster might play brilliantly, and Leinster may well win. If they do, i won't begrudge them one iota, although it will be an awful sickener. I would then obviously hope Leinster go on and win it out.
But I think Munster are big enough and good enough to beat Leinster most days, and I hope today is one of them.
Cuige Mumhan Abú
Stand up and Fight
I had a poor sleep lastnight, woke up at 7.20am thinking about the game with alot of mixed feelings. Could this be our day? i feel sick in the stomach at the mo...
Will be on the Hill today cheering on the team in blue - nothing new there - just hope for a different result than I'm used to in semi finals!!!
Quote from: Declan on May 02, 2009, 11:19:01 AM
Will be on the Hill today cheering on the team in blue - nothing new there - just hope for a different result than I'm used to in semi finals!!!
i'll second that!!!!!!!
Who has coverage of the game...Skysports?
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2009, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on May 02, 2009, 09:51:49 AM
Who, as a Longford man with a Cork mammy, should I cheer for? I have no inherent grá for Leinster yet I am 'from' there.
I like the Munster set up and, while there may be a few bandwagoners aboard, I find their supporters top class.
Feck it. I'll cheer on both teams cos the winnner of this will win the Heino, roysh!
I think people are mixing up their sports here.
Gaa is about where you're from.
Rugby is about who you identify with.
Soccer is about who was good when you were 7.
Rugby is about where your from . I don't see how it's any different to GAA some lads like to pretend it is as they are bandwagon Jumpers. Something you lot love spouting one about during the summer
Quote from: Gnevin on May 02, 2009, 12:25:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2009, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on May 02, 2009, 09:51:49 AM
Who, as a Longford man with a Cork mammy, should I cheer for? I have no inherent grá for Leinster yet I am 'from' there.
I like the Munster set up and, while there may be a few bandwagoners aboard, I find their supporters top class.
Feck it. I'll cheer on both teams cos the winnner of this will win the Heino, roysh!
I think people are mixing up their sports here.
Gaa is about where you're from.
Rugby is about who you identify with.
Soccer is about who was good when you were 7.
Rugby is about where your from . I don't see how it's any different to GAA some lads like to pretend it is as they are bandwagon Jumpers. Something you lot love spouting one about during the summer
Nacewa, Van Der Linde, Jowitt, Whittaker, Wright, Contepomi and Elsom might disagree.
Quote from: Gnevin on May 02, 2009, 12:25:37 PM
Rugby is about where your from . I don't see how it's any different to GAA some lads like to pretend it is as they are bandwagon Jumpers. Something you lot love spouting one about during the summer
Have to agree with that, what ever province you're from is the one you should support, hence I support Ulster.
Still don't know who I want to win todays game though. On the one hand I want Leinster to win cause they haven't won it yet and are underdogs but on the hand want Munster to win it back to back to prove there greatness. Whoever does win though I definitely be supporting them in the final. Would love to see either team stick it up to Leicester
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2009, 12:34:23 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 02, 2009, 12:25:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2009, 10:01:06 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on May 02, 2009, 09:51:49 AM
Who, as a Longford man with a Cork mammy, should I cheer for? I have no inherent grá for Leinster yet I am 'from' there.
I like the Munster set up and, while there may be a few bandwagoners aboard, I find their supporters top class.
Feck it. I'll cheer on both teams cos the winnner of this will win the Heino, roysh!
I think people are mixing up their sports here.
Gaa is about where you're from.
Rugby is about who you identify with.
Soccer is about who was good when you were 7.
Rugby is about where your from . I don't see how it's any different to GAA some lads like to pretend it is as they are bandwagon Jumpers. Something you lot love spouting one about during the summer
Nacewa, Van Der Linde, Jowitt, Whittaker, Wright, Contepomi and Elsom might disagree.
The Dublin Hurling and Football teams have plenty example of non navies playing for them . The Core of the team is Leinster .
Well the time is now, i'm heading off to the game, enjoy the game everybody!
I am shitting it!!!!!
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2009, 10:04:37 AM
In fairness, I think Leinster Rugby *now* is a different animal, and i would expect most newbies from Leinster, or at least the eastern part of Leinster, to be able to identify with the Leinster brand now, much moreso than 10 years ago say.
That type of description has become common parlance now, so common that no one bats an eye towards its use, that fills up my sick bucket.
But I'd have to admit that they have been very good at managing the Leinster thing, can't argue with the quality on offer and imo a welcome influx of some superb players.
I suppose I'll make the sacrifice today and block out all sports news until RTE show the game.
Roll on Ryle,
'For he today that sheds his blood with me....'
Anyone got a decent link to the game?
http://www.justin.tv/kostaz007/popout
a cracking game
Leinster doing rightly but god Jackman is an awful lineout thrower. It could cost them! Good kick from the Doc as well.
Was that not a good shoulder ???
Quote from: milltown row on May 02, 2009, 05:49:18 PM
http://www.justin.tv/kostaz007/popout
a cracking game
Good link, cheers
Leinster playing some stuff here.
Croker looks awesome
Great try!
For some reason i am cheering for leinster ???
Great game and as good an atmosphere as I've experienced in Croke Park
Leinster on fire
Shane needs a hair cut
Is it just me or is the Lions captain out on that pitch?? Done absolutely nothing all game. Cullen and big Mal are giving DOC and POC a lesson!!
some game Leinster are playing
GAME OVER!!!
That's a turnip for the books.
Kieleys and the Bookies laughing all the way to the bank.
Roysh.
Anyway great Leinster performance and I, for one, am happy now.
Good man Sexto!!!
Glad Leinster won, they were much the better team.
Would've been interesting to listen into the conversation that Cullen and Quinlan were having at the end :P
Very well done leinster. Awesome defense and fantastic pack performance. Yer fans turned up too. I'm sick but I'm glad for lads like BOD. Well done again. The Munster post mortem can wait, its yer day. Go win it now.
The commentator kept refering to Croker Park. That eye gouging was a bit naughty but good to see Leinster in final. Is a bit tiresome at this stage Munster and the Fields of Athenry... are they not in Connaught?
What the hell happened here ?? I was out at a match - watched the first few minutes and Munster were all over them like a rash.
The closer the game came, the more I felt Leinster could turn over Munster.
They had all of psychological advantages.
I can imagine the stuff about "Ladyboys" helped rile them up to prove a point.
The highlighting of Lunsters stuff reared its head for the first time, but it showed the sort of mindset that developing in Leinster.
An us against the world type vibe.
I think Cardiff will win it out though.
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2009, 08:09:36 PM
What the hell happened here ?? I was out at a match - watched the first few minutes and Munster were all over them like a rash.
Most matches that are nill all after a few minutes are not considered to be a foregone conclusion. Leinsters defence and slowing down of Munster possession was the key as well as tactical kicking in the first half. They went in at half time leading 11 points to 6 or 3? and got a try straight away after the restart to stretch the lead to 18- 6. From there there was only going to be one winner.
To those of you who questioned why Tomas O'Leary got picked ahead of Stringer I think you got your answer today. Stringers passing is better but it is predictable what he is going to do and you do not have to worry too much about him making breaks, his kicking is well short of O'Learys standard as well. Defensively Stringer really gets stuck in but O'Learys defence is a lot stronger.
What is the story with the injuries suffered by Conteponi and Fitzgerald and any other Leinster players, How is Kearney recovering from the mumps. After getting to the final these guys better not be missing.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on May 02, 2009, 08:38:15 PM
The closer the game came, the more I felt Leinster could turn over Munster.
They had all of psychological advantages.
I can imagine the stuff about "Ladyboys" helped rile them up to prove a point.
The highlighting of Lunsters stuff reared its head for the first time, but it showed the sort of mindset that developing in Leinster.
An us against the world type vibe.
I think Cardiff will win it out though.
I in fact hope they are playing Cardiff and not Leicester in the final. If Leinster play defensively as well today and slow down the oppositions possession like they did today I think they will beat Cardiff. Hopefully the uinjured lads will be back in action for the final. Time for me to change myslef back into a Leinster fan after todays match.
munster were brutal, fair play to leinster-hope they go on and win it
good to see them keeping a lid on things and not celebrating like they had won the thing!
That was a quare auld gouge yer man had at the Leinster captain.
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2009, 09:42:11 PM
That was a quare auld gouge yer man had at the Leinster captain.
aye wonder will he will cited for that, seen they were chatting at the end.cullen seemed to take it in good spirit considering, maybe would have done him a favour taking the eyes out of his head :D
Just home from Pub.
have to say Leinster were superb. No arguments. Our boys never got going. Munster badly beaten up physicallly. This wont do the Lions squad any good unless Leinster go and win the H cup.
Great game of rugby. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
Cullen, Heaslip, and Elsom were simply immense and D'Arcy and O'Driscoll were outstanding. Fitzgerald was pretty good to say the least and loved his intelligent rugby with the foot over the deadball before picking it up. Not a big thing but it's wee bits like that that show a man in the heat of things using his head and understanding the laws properly and using them to his advantage. Loved the way this guy Sexton stepped into the breach, can only be good for Irish rugby in a problem position.
Btw where did all the flags in the stands come from, were they giving them away or are flags normal in Leinster/Munster now. Very colourful and looked a great day out. Apparently the attendance was a record for a northern hemisphere club game.
Downside was again the exposure at #10 the Lions are going to have when O'Gara is actually put under pressure. Also, I'm worried about this 'gouging' allegatoin on Quinlan. If cited he could be out of the Lions tour :(
I'd say Quinlan is in big trouble. I don't think it was deliberate but it was certainly reckless. I've seen large bans given out for less. Would be surprised if he makes the Lions tour now to be honest. I believe Cheika has already tried to gloss over it but the match citing commissioner might have other ideas.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 03, 2009, 02:01:31 AM
I'd say Quinlan is in big trouble. I don't think it was deliberate but it was certainly reckless. I've seen large bans given out for less. Would be surprised if he makes the Lions tour now to be honest. I believe Cheika has already tried to gloss over it but the match citing commissioner might have other ideas.
Agree. He'll be lucky to get away with that. It will be a terrible pity for him to miss the tour.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 03, 2009, 02:01:31 AM
I'd say Quinlan is in big trouble. I don't think it was deliberate but it was certainly reckless. I've seen large bans given out for less. Would be surprised if he makes the Lions tour now to be honest. I believe Cheika has already tried to gloss over it but the match citing commissioner might have other ideas.
I think it was deliberate - and I think he's in trouble.
I've haven't seen too much of Keith Earls this year, mainly due to the time difference, and I'm loathe to judge a young man on one game but if he can't lassoo Gordon D'Arcy to prevent a try he's going to get eaten alive in South Africa. Is that harsh or is his defence genuinely suspect?
Anyway, well done to Leinster, they were superb today. Given the Kearney was out and they lost Felipe and Fitzgerald during the game they never stood back and allowed Munster to come at them. I think Munster are a fantastic team and have a huge respect for them, but all their crowing about D4 Ladyboys from some sections of their support is downright disrespectful to some of the players that these same yahoos were cheering in Cardiff a few months ago.
Forgot to add - Rocky Elson, WOW, simply awesome and easy to see why the ARU are pulling out all the stops to get him back
Here is Quinlan incident again - I'd be shocked if he makes the Lions now, and to be honest, good enough for him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZYbZQQ3q0Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZYbZQQ3q0Q)
Quote from: stephenite on May 03, 2009, 02:38:43 AM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 03, 2009, 02:01:31 AM
I'd say Quinlan is in big trouble. I don't think it was deliberate but it was certainly reckless. I've seen large bans given out for less. Would be surprised if he makes the Lions tour now to be honest. I believe Cheika has already tried to gloss over it but the match citing commissioner might have other ideas.
I think it was deliberate - and I think he's in trouble.
I've haven't seen too much of Keith Earls this year, mainly due to the time difference, and I'm loathe to judge a young man on one game but if he can't lassoo Gordon D'Arcy to prevent a try he's going to get eaten alive in South Africa. Is that harsh or is his defence genuinely suspect?
Earls has been very impressive this season with ball in hand but his defence is still very suspect. Munster usually dominate possession to such a degree that it's not an issue but he really needs to work on it. No doubt he'll improve but I can't help thinking that his Lions call up was slightly premature.
I think Quinlan will be ok with that, a short suspension maybe. When people talk about eye gouging and long suspensions I think they mean the really nasty jobs you sometimes see photos of, what Quinlan did was a hand in the face and a bit of a squeeze. I do not think he will miss the Lions for that. it was fairly minor and mybe they will just gloss over it. Some other people on the BBC website are looking for him to be suspended, I think they just want rid of him to bring Ryan Jones or Tom Croft.
With regarde Earls, he has been a very effective attacker for Munster this year. He had munsters only effective attack today and he is a bit young and maybe defensively naive.
Horrible headline on the front of the sindo. "It was the day the ladyboys decided to be men" I don' think that is a term of affection for a rugby team.
As far as I'm aware gouging is seen as gouging and there is a minimum ban of 6 weeks handed down for it - severity doesn't come into it, you either gouge or you don't. I think this is an IIRC directive?
Quote from: stephenite on May 03, 2009, 02:50:13 AM
Here is Quinlan incident again - I'd be shocked if he makes the Lions now, and to be honest, good enough for him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZYbZQQ3q0Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZYbZQQ3q0Q)
Quinlan is a fuggin disgrace and should see a long ban for that.
Filthy altogether from Quinlan. Maybe I'm being a bit cynical but thought that is precisely why he was being picked for the Lions - abrasive, confrontational and not afraid to "mix it".
Quote from: CiKe on May 03, 2009, 10:58:05 AM
Filthy altogether from Quinlan. Maybe I'm being a bit cynical but thought that is precisely why he was being picked for the Lions - abrasive, confrontational and not afraid to "mix it".
There is a difference between being confrontational and trying to take someones eye out!!
You're right though - he just got caught
Low act by Quinlan. Let him off on the Lions tour. he'll be no more than a midweek dirtracker at any rate. There will be plenty of Yarpies willing to accommodate that sort of carry on if he wants to try it in the Free State Stadium in Bloemfontein on at cold Wednesday night.
Not a huge follower of the egg shaped ball game but happy with yesterdays result particularly for players like Cullen and O'Kelly who've had to put up with a fair bit over the past few years. This whole Munster thing was starting to turn into a small bit of a bandwagon scene and get a small bit tiresome. Say the Boks management wouldn't be too concerned at what they saw yesterday, will be looking forward to targeting O'Gara I would imagine.
A fantastic occasion and wonderful win by Leinster.
The weight of criticism which the Leinster players had to take the past few weeks clearly had to inspire them. There was never any doubt about their individual abilities. As a Mayo supporter I can see that their big task is now going to be to finish the job, otherwise yesterday is worthless.
The Munster bandwagon really did get out of control, the assumption of an easy win, mainly coming from those new to the oval ball game may have got in on the players. It seems Leinster have focused their minds for this season on getting to the knock-out stages and gearing their whole preparation around Heiniken Cup games rather than giving any real focus to the Magners League.
Good hard game.
Quote from: Roger on May 03, 2009, 01:27:45 AM
Btw where did all the flags in the stands come from, were they giving them away or are flags normal in Leinster/Munster now. Very colourful and looked a great day out.
The flags were given out and left on seats - presumably by ERC.What do youse think about the GAA doing something similar ?
Quote from: anglocelt39 on May 03, 2009, 11:36:51 AM
Low act by Quinlan. Let him off on the Lions tour. he'll be no more than a midweek dirtracker at any rate. There will be plenty of Yarpies willing to accommodate that sort of carry on if he wants to try it in the Free State Stadium in Bloemfontein on at cold Wednesday night.
Not a huge follower of the egg shaped ball game but happy with yesterdays result particularly for players like Cullen and O'Kelly who've had to put up with a fair bit over the past few years. This whole Munster thing was starting to turn into a small bit of a bandwagon scene and get a small bit tiresome. Say the Boks management wouldn't be too concerned at what they saw yesterday, will be looking forward to targeting O'Gara I would imagine.
would echo all that. Well put. I'll be hoping Leinster do it- not because of some of the ROK tossers that follow them but I'd like to see BOD win a HEC .We'll never see his like again.
Did Quinlan gouge ?? Is there a difference between attempting and actually doing it ??
It's like the joke I heard recently about the boy going to the confessions. Rubbing round it was the same as putting it in.
any one any links for todays game?
2nd period of extra time . 26 -26 each .
I hope it goes to kicks here, I don't think I've ever seen that before :P
Gone to kicks now!
that was very exciting, what a cruel way to lose but very exciting.
What a horrible, silly way to decide a game of such importance.
Quote from: orangeman on May 03, 2009, 05:45:56 PM
What a horrible, silly way to decide a game of such importance.
As silly as penalties in football?
Thought that was a class ending to a great match. The tension with the kicks was unreal. Leicester are of the same breeding as Munster and should make for a cracking final though with Leicester possibly having 2 big games (definitely 1 anyway) before the final it could be advantage Leinster.
A poor way for a game of rugby to end. They need to rweak it a bit. The forwards shouldn't be taking kicks. They should be movng the ball back 10 yards and letting the first 5 kickers go again. kicking is simply not part of the skill set of rugby forwards in general, some of them have never kicked a ball in their lfe and would fall over in the attempt due to lack of balance, I have seen it happen on the rugby field.
Delighted for the Leinster lads. It's a priivilege to see O'Driscoll play and we should be grateful for all that he has given the game. Munster were very poor and got beaten at every aspect of the game. Had a good few of the bandwagonners around me on the Hill - Thank God they left early though. Hope they go on and win it now
Jaysus I hate rugby.
Most nations that excel at it were or are colonial slaves to the British at some point in history. They forced the game on them and us and we embraced it with open arms. Shame.
Looking forward to the final though. Leinster/Leicester will be great craic for women to understand.
Quote from: ONeill on May 03, 2009, 11:53:24 PM
Jaysus I hate rugby.
Most nations that excel at it were or are colonial slaves to the British at some point in history. They forced the game on them and us and we embraced it with open arms. Shame.
Looking forward to the final though. Leinster/Leicester will be great craic for women to understand.
What the f**k are you talking about .
You wouldn't want to know, being a little Englander.
i thought the same Gnevin, but if you go through his posts, this man talks some shite
Jaysus lads, don't take it personally. Be confident in who you are.
All nations who have won the World Cup in rugby have been British colonies. Add to that Tonga, Western Samoa, Fiji etc and you get the picture. The compete for the William Webb Ellis Cup, the son of a British Army officer. It's a reminder in most countries that play it of the British hand print on their history.
At least soccer is a worldwide game originating in China.
Quote from: ONeill on May 04, 2009, 07:37:22 AM
It's a reminder in most countries that play it of the British hand print on their history.
It's not though - I've quite a few Fijians and Samoans here in the office. For them it's a game that they enjoy - end of.
Mmm, that's not the point at all. I wouldn't expect a Samoan today to know why they play rugby, the same as an Irishman. The majority of people ar unaware of their history unfortunately. Even New Zealanders acknowledge that rugby was a way of anglicising the natives. It introduced the British way of life to the unrulies and was more effective than any military strategy.
I don't think I've ever been so proud of a team I was supporting. Gave it absolutely everything.
Cheika got the team selection absolutely right, we targetted Munster's weaker areas and was delighted to see Jackman taking a quick pen from our own 22 early on - we were going to be brave.
Hard to pick out individuals when every man did his stuff. Healip and Elsom so much better than their opposite numbers, Cullen showing again how ridiculous his omission from Irish squads is, Contepomi had really laid down a marker with his physicality and boy Sexton did so well when he came on and Nacewa was absolute class - but all over the field it was Leinster's day (lineout was always going to be a weaker area but we always competed and never gave anything away easily).
Still, I have to say, Munster being Munster, even though 3 scores ahead for a long time I didnt think the game was over until about 5 minutes left!
But job only half done. The lack of big celebrations at the end was positive, very tough task ahead.
Quote from: ONeill on May 04, 2009, 08:36:58 AM
Mmm, that's not the point at all. I wouldn't expect a Samoan today to know why they play rugby, the same as an Irishman. The majority of people ar unaware of their history unfortunately. Even New Zealanders acknowledge that rugby was a way of anglicising the natives. It introduced the British way of life to the unrulies and was more effective than any military strategy.
Right, so your point is that all rugby playing nations are former British colonies?
Quote from: ONeill on May 04, 2009, 08:36:58 AM
Mmm, that's not the point at all. I wouldn't expect a Samoan today to know why they play rugby, the same as an Irishman. The majority of people ar unaware of their history unfortunately. Even New Zealanders acknowledge that rugby was a way of anglicising the natives. It introduced the British way of life to the unrulies and was more effective than any military strategy.
BTW - I'm sure the Maoiris would dispute your assertion that rugby was more effective than the murder of many of them and destruction of their culture. If you're going to introduce history go and read some before waffling
Quote from: stephenite on May 04, 2009, 09:19:56 AM
Right, so your point is that all rugby playing nations are former British colonies?
Nope.
Quote from: stephenite on May 04, 2009, 09:21:49 AM
BTW - I'm sure the Maoiris would dispute your assertion that rugby was more effective than the murder of many of them and destruction of their culture. If you're going to introduce history go and read some before waffling
It was the rugby. There's no doubt about that.
Try not to be touchy. It's a bank holiday (an English/Cricket tradition) and we're all typing in English anyway.
Quote from: ONeill on May 04, 2009, 07:37:22 AM
At least soccer is a worldwide game originating in China.
Sure it is . ::)
Quote from: stephenite on May 04, 2009, 09:19:56 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 04, 2009, 08:36:58 AM
Mmm, that's not the point at all. I wouldn't expect a Samoan today to know why they play rugby, the same as an Irishman. The majority of people ar unaware of their history unfortunately. Even New Zealanders acknowledge that rugby was a way of anglicising the natives. It introduced the British way of life to the unrulies and was more effective than any military strategy.
Right, so your point is that all rugby playing nations are former British colonies?
Reading a post from a WUM is something you should avoid. Responding to it is just silly!
re The Quinlan thing, it certainly looks like he went for Cullen, now he didn't really leave his hand there and gouge, but it was definitely a raking or scraping across the eyeball, and was filthy thing to do. I suspect he may get a month, but if he gets more and misses the Lions tour, he'll get no sympathy from me.
Had a look at it again today. It didnt last long, but his nails made their marks across Cullen's face, and Cullen's eyelid was also cut. Quinlan did seek Cullen out after the game and you could see he was apologising - but too little too late.
Quote from: ONeill on May 04, 2009, 07:37:22 AM
Jaysus lads, don't take it personally. Be confident in who you are.
All nations who have won the World Cup in rugby have been British colonies. Add to that Tonga, Western Samoa, Fiji etc and you get the picture. The compete for the William Webb Ellis Cup, the son of a British Army officer. It's a reminder in most countries that play it of the British hand print on their history.
At least soccer is a worldwide game originating in China.
You're in quare form this weekend O'Neill and you have the summer holidays to look forward to.
Quinlan Cited
4 May 2009, 3:16 pm
Alan Quinlan, the Munster back row forward (No 6), is due to appear before an independent Disciplinary Committee as a result of a citing arising from the Heineken Cup semi-final against Leinster at Croke Park.
The citing lodged by the Citing Commissioner for the match, John Byett (England), is for alleged contact with the eye / eye area of Leinster player Leo Cullen (No 4) in contravention of Law 10.4 (k).
The independent Disciplinary Committee will be appointed as soon as practicable.
Law 10.4 (k) - Acts contrary to good sportsmanship.
I think I might delirious from lack of stout.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 04, 2009, 03:58:25 PM
Quinlan Cited
4 May 2009, 3:16 pm
Alan Quinlan, the Munster back row forward (No 6), is due to appear before an independent Disciplinary Committee as a result of a citing arising from the Heineken Cup semi-final against Leinster at Croke Park.
The citing lodged by the Citing Commissioner for the match, John Byett (England), is for alleged contact with the eye / eye area of Leinster player Leo Cullen (No 4) in contravention of Law 10.4 (k).
The independent Disciplinary Committee will be appointed as soon as practicable.
Law 10.4 (k) - Acts contrary to good sportsmanship.
Will Cullen's defence of Quinlan help Quinlan avoid a suspension or will it be ignored ?. What length of a suspension can he expect if guilty ?.
Quote from: orangeman on May 04, 2009, 05:37:25 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 04, 2009, 03:58:25 PM
Quinlan Cited
4 May 2009, 3:16 pm
Alan Quinlan, the Munster back row forward (No 6), is due to appear before an independent Disciplinary Committee as a result of a citing arising from the Heineken Cup semi-final against Leinster at Croke Park.
The citing lodged by the Citing Commissioner for the match, John Byett (England), is for alleged contact with the eye / eye area of Leinster player Leo Cullen (No 4) in contravention of Law 10.4 (k).
The independent Disciplinary Committee will be appointed as soon as practicable.
Law 10.4 (k) - Acts contrary to good sportsmanship.
Will Cullen's defence of Quinlan help Quinlan avoid a suspension or will it be ignored ?. What length of a suspension can he expect if guilty ?.
Minimum of 12 weeks for eye gouging. Neil Best and Dylan Hartley of Northampton are the most recent examples I can think of and they got 18 weeks and 6 months respectively. Its one of those offences which is treated as one of the more serious in rugby.
Depends whether they call it gouging or raking/reckless hands. He'll be lucky to get a month.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 04, 2009, 05:51:19 PM
Depends whether they call it gouging or raking/reckless hands. He'll be lucky to get a month.
According to Sky Sports News, if found guilty its a minimum ban of 3 months, a maximum ban of 3 years.
Still cant believe it, what a performance!!!!!!
C'mon Leinster!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Tankie on May 04, 2009, 11:39:31 PM
Still cant believe it, what a performance!!!!!!
C'mon Leinster!!!!!!!!
:D
Fair do's, if I was a Leinster supporter I'd be still on cloud 9 too. It was very impressive.
Will they repeat it in the final ???
Quote from: Roger on May 05, 2009, 12:19:03 AM
Quote from: Tankie on May 04, 2009, 11:39:31 PM
Still cant believe it, what a performance!!!!!!
C'mon Leinster!!!!!!!!
:D
Fair do's, if I was a Leinster supporter I'd be still on cloud 9 too. It was very impressive.
Will they repeat it in the final ???
hard to say about the final, Leicester are a serious team and will be favorites but i need to sort out how i'm getting to the final first and I will then start thinking about the game.
but what a day, all the years of abuse are nearly over!
Fair play to Leinster, they certainly dug their heels in for that one.
Good luck to them in the final.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 01, 2009, 01:48:05 PM
QuoteAgreed. Is it just me or are the Munster fans overly confident. Everyone of them I've spoken to doesn't give Leinster a chance of getting within a score of them?
It's not you, every Munster fan I've talked to really believe they'll wipe the floor with Leinster. The thing that has given me the greatest hope for Saturday is O'Driscolls interview on The Rugby Club, he looked very relaxed and just radated confidence. With the backline picked I think Leinster are going to go for the jugular and if they can silence the 50K odd Munster fans they really can pull this off. Here's hoping...
Rarely do my prophecies come true but I knew after that interview Leinster were going to win, O'Driscoll without doubt is the greatest rugby player this country has ever produced, again he delivered when it mattered.
Something that doesn't seem to have been picked up is the debate over Lunsters in the lead up to the game, it seems quite deliberate that two recent Leinster players Reggie Corrigan and Shane Byrne (great to see him there in the crowd in his jersey) took time out to attack Lunsters and their reasons for supporting Munster, it really galvanised the Leinster support and although out-numbered they were certainly heard and I think the players have really bought into it and in the last two Heineken Cup performances they really have put their bodies on the line.
The Munster fans were shell-shocked, was there even a rendition of the FOA?, they were coming to Dublin to watch Munster destroy Leinster, they didn't rate Leinster and such is life complacency can be the worst thing that can happen to any sports team.
The discipline, the hunger and the belief in the Leinster team was fantastic and the coaching staff deserve all the plaudits for having a team so well prepared for a game. This game will be a watershed but they now have to deliver although they still have two goes if the final doesn't work out.
Devastated for Contepomi.
Quinline deserves to be banned, not gouging but very dangerous play, he has no excuse his hand should be no where near the face regardless of intent.
Nice that my 2000th post was after such a great win
How many did ONeill get? :D
Congrats Dinny.
Fair play Dinny - you certainly kept the faith.
The rugby club interviews were telling for me too but for the contributions of the munster players. they were at great pains to point out how great leinster were while not looking like they meant it at all.
Well done Leinster have to admit i found myself shouting for ye up for the underdog i suppose. Found george hook very un gracious regards Leinster Win said that Cheika (spl) was a lucky manager
Cheers AZ, GAA.
I mentioned it before but Cheika was building a team for knock-out rugby where defence is paramount, Leinster have the best defence in Europe and BOD is the cog that keeps that machine oiled. They have every chance in the final.
Yea I think we commented on Flannery and O'Callaghan's interviews as well, in hingsight you're probably right they were going through the motions with the Leinster praise.
For the record Munster are still the best team in Europe and it shows you how hard it is to do the double.
congrats Dinny
was thinking of how you would react to seeing your fave player quinlans disgraceful actions
lenster pack superb and cheika finally delivering a win that this team were hinting at providing over the past couple of years.
Reddan a fantastic addition for next season.
Elsom a huge loss though imo
I'd have preferred the hot/cold leceister over cardiff myself...think thats the best oppoent for leister imo
Quotewas thinking of how you would react to seeing your fave player quinlans disgraceful actions
He didn't let me down and it was for stupid things like that which always made me maintain that he should never be allowed near an Irish jersey, the ironic thing is that his wife is best mates with Leon Cullen's Mrs.
Quote
I'd have preferred the hot/cold leceister over cardiff myself...think thats the best oppoent for leister imo
Agree, think Cardiff would have been very dangerous, hopefully Johnny Murphy will be playing for Leicester, he's from Kildare Town and a sound bloke.
Anyone else think that penalty shoot-out was a terrible way to decide a game?
I thought it was a shocking way to decide a HEC semi final. To be honest it made a skit of the whole thing. It was like some novelty way of deciding the married versus singles game on Stephens' Day. To see forwards trying to kick penalties to decide a HEC final was shocking.
this sort of evens up Contepomi's absence in the final. Disappointing for both of them.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/leicester/8036156.stm
Any thoughts on Jonathan Sexton btw?
He seemed to take to the big occasion and looks to have lots of self belief.
He is young and can improve his penalty kicking and bulk up a bit.
He would be handy option for Ireland to have.
i see they're betting 4/9 that quinlan misses the lions - whilst he was wrong, i think it's very harsh on him - maybe good for the lions chances all the same, as Croft is expected to be called in.
Quote from: Bogball XV on May 06, 2009, 06:08:32 PM
i see they're betting 4/9 that quinlan misses the lions - whilst he was wrong, i think it's very harsh on him - maybe good for the lions chances all the same, as Croft is expected to be called in.
I personally would have had Croft before Quinlan, however McGeechin has picked a squad and places a lot of emphasis on team development when it comes to the Lions. I was speaking to an Ulster player the other night and he said it would be a bad thing for the tour as Quinlan is hateful to play against but as soon as the match is over he has an addictive personality and is great crack. He felt that Quinlans presence would benefit the Lions tour immensely.
Well done to Leinster - hungrier side won.
The Welsh want Ryan Jones and the English Croft instead of Quinlan ...he has no chance of making the Lions IMO.
It isnt a gouging but that won make any difference. His hand shouldn't have been there.
Have gift grub done anything on the match ? They did a classic one after last semi.
Am I blind or what happened to the Ryanair rips off Leinster fans thread. I had another alternative money saving route for anyone travelling. Ah well.
They will hardly be worrying about the cost of fares all the rusiness lawyers and doctors that will be going.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 07, 2009, 05:36:59 PM
They will hardly be worrying about the cost of fares all the rusiness lawyers and doctors that will be going.
They will be doing well to get 30,000 lawyers and doctors going to Edinburgh.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 07, 2009, 05:36:59 PM
They will hardly be worrying about the cost of fares all the rusiness lawyers and doctors that will be going.
is Gnevin a lawyer or a doctor?
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 07, 2009, 05:59:29 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 07, 2009, 05:36:59 PM
They will hardly be worrying about the cost of fares all the rusiness lawyers and doctors that will be going.
They will be doing well to get 30,000 lawyers and doctors going to Edinburgh.
At least all the cargo will get unloaded and the rubbish will be collected in Munster, since 30,000 dockers and binmen won't be heading.
It wouldn't be great weekend to have a heart attack and require surgery in the South Dublin area though.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 07, 2009, 05:59:29 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 07, 2009, 05:36:59 PM
They will hardly be worrying about the cost of fares all the rusiness lawyers and doctors that will be going.
They will be doing well to get 30,000 lawyers and doctors going to Edinburgh.
The lawyers might have heard there's going to be jobs picking spuds :D :D
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 07, 2009, 05:36:59 PM
They will hardly be worrying about the cost of fares all the rusiness lawyers and doctors that will be going.
+1 IT Professional ;D
Quote from: bcarrier on May 07, 2009, 11:17:15 AM
Well done to Leinster - hungrier side won.
The Welsh want Ryan Jones and the English Croft instead of Quinlan ...he has no chance of making the Lions IMO.
It isnt a gouging but that won make any difference. His hand shouldn't have been there.
Bad news for Ferris as well IMO. He had the test place wrapped up. Quinlan was no competition, but the replacement will be.
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2009, 08:23:05 AM
Quote from: bcarrier on May 07, 2009, 11:17:15 AM
Well done to Leinster - hungrier side won.
The Welsh want Ryan Jones and the English Croft instead of Quinlan ...he has no chance of making the Lions IMO.
It isnt a gouging but that won make any difference. His hand shouldn't have been there.
Bad news for Ferris as well IMO. He had the test place wrapped up. Quinlan was no competition, but the replacement will be.
Good point. Croft would certainly have been ahead of Ferris imo. Competition is no bad thing on a tour so it's actually better for the Lions although Quinlan seemed to be considered a better 'tourist'.
Anyone on the board heading to Edinburgh for the match!!!
Flights and hotel booked a few months back and looking forward to a mad weekend
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on May 09, 2009, 02:29:53 PM
Anyone on the board heading to Edinburgh for the match!!!
Flights and hotel booked a few months back and looking forward to a mad weekend
i'm heading over for the weekend, its gonna be savage!
i'm heading over myself, and i mean myself ! So if any of you guys dont mind someone tagging long like a gooseberry, PM me and i might meet up with yous
Quote from: Bogball XV on May 06, 2009, 06:08:32 PM
i see they're betting 4/9 that quinlan misses the lions - whilst he was wrong, i think it's very harsh on him - maybe good for the lions chances all the same, as Croft is expected to be called in.
Who the f**k is Tom Croft? You would swear he was tomb raiders(Lara Crofts) brother and kind of super human or something the way people are going on about him. You don't get a gig with the Lions that easily. He is not an automatic first choice on what is a below average England team. Why would he be going on a lions tour ahead of someone like Ryan Jones or why would some people be so desperate to replace Alan Quinlan with him? Answers on a post card please.
He is actually starring for Leicester at the minute at second row !So his vesatility may go in his favour.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 10, 2009, 11:57:06 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on May 06, 2009, 06:08:32 PM
i see they're betting 4/9 that quinlan misses the lions - whilst he was wrong, i think it's very harsh on him - maybe good for the lions chances all the same, as Croft is expected to be called in.
Who the f**k is Tom Croft? You would swear he was tomb raiders(Lara Crofts) brother and kind of super human or something the way people are going on about him. You don't get a gig with the Lions that easily. He is not an automatic first choice on what is a below average England team. Why would he be going on a lions tour ahead of someone like Ryan Jones or why would some people be so desperate to replace Alan Quinlan with him? Answers on a post card please.
The real question is how the hell did Martin Johnson not select him for the first few games of England's 6 Nations campaign. Maybe he wasn't full fit, but now that he's in the team, he'll be in for a long time. There is a question mark over his best position as he played 6 for England but is playing at lock for Leicester.
Speaking of Leicester I watched some of their victory over Bath in the English semis. They've a very good front 5. Ben Kay was man of the match, and they've an Argie prop who looks the absolute business. Pretty good back row too, Lewis Moody only on the bench, though he touched down within seconds of coming on so may be pushing for a start for one or both of the upcoming finals.
One benefit of not playing Cardiff in the final, is Leicester do not have a goal kicker of the calibre of Ben Blair. Their French scrum half is the kicker and he has good and bad days. Though he's keeping Harry Ellis out of the team at the moment, who is not bad replacement to have if things are tight going into the last quarter. Vesty is Flood's replacement at 10, and like Leinster they seem satisfied that the young 2nd choice is well up for the job. The rest of the backline is good, some very good finishers, but hopefully not as good as Leinster, especially in defence.
Very good performance by Leinster on Friday night v the Scarlets. Horgan had his best game of the season, and Big Mal was very good too. Lineout a little bit hit-and-miss, scrum was excellent. A few unforced knock-ons, one by Healy led to a Llanelli try, but generally the back play was good. Turned down 2 penalties in the first half from well inside the 22, but out wide. Cullen called for scrums both times, and both times it ended with Luke touching down in the corner. Will we be so brave in the final!!??
Sexton missed his first kick at goal, a pretty simple one from in front of the posts. But nailed both 1st half conversions from the sideline. In general play he could hardly have played any better. Controlled the game and won the MotM award (though personally I'd have given it to Horgan).
Anyone interested in a ticket for the final ?
I had two tickets bought in May last year, the monday after the Final, but my colleuge has had to go back to America for work so i have a spare ticket in a good seat in Murrayfield.
PM me if your interested.
Harlequins face ERC hearing to explain Evans' substitution
Sunday May 10 2009
Harlequins are likely have to appear before an ERC disciplinary hearing to explain their actions in the endgame of their Heineken Cup quarter-final against Leinster last month.
ERC are expected this week to confirm a date for the hearing on Harlequins' alleged misconduct. The hearing is expected to be in Dublin in the next fortnight.
The move follows an initial investigation by ERC's disciplinary officer following controversy surrounding the late substitution of Harlequins player Tom Williams -- himself a replacement -- supposedly for a blood injury. Taking Williams off on a blood replacement allowed Harlequins to bring back drop-goal expert Nick Evans.
As Williams was being led off the field, there was a theatrical spout of what might have been blood from his mouth, followed by a wink to Evans who was coming on. The episode infuriated Leinster officials who complained bitterly at the time, but to no avail.
The substitution could not have been made had Evans not been marked on the official sheet as having been taken off for tactical reasons, as injured players are not allowed to come back on the field. When Evans himself had been taken off, he was clearly suffering from a knee injury.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/harlequins-face-erc-hearing--to-explain-evans-substitution-1734510.html
Well lads the big game is only a few days away, I know for most posters on this board they are more worried about a British soccer team playing on Wednesday week but this Saturday is the big one for Irish sports fans. I'm struggling to get any work done this week with the excitment.
Are many heading over? I know myself, Hoof Hearted and Gnevin are heading over. it should be a cracking weekend...
Leicester will be favourites which might suit Leinster. They will miss Felipe Conteponi badly, I don't think our half backs are good enough. Having said that Leicester are missin their out half as well. Even though Leicester are to favourites I have a sneaky feeling Leinster will pull this off on saturday.
i think there is one more big game in them too. Last chance probably for the likes of BOD. Since the semi's Leicester have had two big games whilst Leinsters big names have been rested so hopefully that will stand them in good stead. Leinster by 5, cant wait.
Leinster will win this match.
Have a good weekend lads.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 19, 2009, 09:33:11 PM
i think there is one more big game in them too. Last chance probably for the likes of BOD. Since the semi's Leicester have had two big games whilst Leinsters big names have been rested so hopefully that will stand them in good stead. Leinster by 5, cant wait.
i am not so confident. I feel sick just thinking about the game....
Lad's I've 3 spare tickets 1 on it's own and 2 beside each other , anyone interested?
If Munster were in the final there would be no shortage of takers for those tickets I would say, there were even some returned by Leicester.
If Leicester turn the game into a dogfight then there'll only be one winner. They'll target the Leinster scrum with Castrogiovani and Julian White who can do serious damage in the tight. If Healy and Wright can hold their own there then Leinster have a big chance. Whittaker is going to be a massive player on Saturday. If he can get the ball away from the breakdown as quickly as he did against Munster then I'd fancy Leinster to shade it. If he's as slow and ponderous as he was in some of the earlier rounds though it'll be a long afternoon.
It'd be great for Irish rugby to see Leinster do it but as a Kildareman I'd also be delighted for Geordan Murphy to lift the cup as captain. He's shipped a lot of unecessary criticism from certain Irish rugby "supporters" over the last few years.
Is Ellistown's Johne Murphy going to be fit for the final? He was taken off in the Guinness Final last weekend
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 20, 2009, 12:58:15 AM
If Munster were in the final there would be no shortage of takers for those tickets I would say, there were even some returned by Leicester.
Shame they aint good enough to be in the final then, but the bandwagon can keep their money for next years final now ;)
Pretty poor outward displays of support evident for the team in or around Dublin. The odd car with a flag and I have seen only one house with a flag outside (a house between Kilteel and Eadestown). Some pubs have flags flying though.
Anyway, while not a rugby person I wish them well, especially the lads with GAA backgrounds. Only realized last week that I have been at 5 Leinster games at the RDS over the last 2 seasons (mate has season tickets) , all Magner lgue games.The Leinster supporters from what I see are a decent bunch, if a bit reserved in displaying their support.
Quote from: Gnevin on May 19, 2009, 11:31:39 PM
Lad's I've 3 spare tickets 1 on it's own and 2 beside each other , anyone interested?
WTF?
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2009, 09:27:26 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 19, 2009, 11:31:39 PM
Lad's I've 3 spare tickets 1 on it's own and 2 beside each other , anyone interested?
WTF?
Had someone for them but they pulled out and could of off loaded them several times before. >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: Gnevin on May 20, 2009, 10:48:05 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2009, 09:27:26 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 19, 2009, 11:31:39 PM
Lad's I've 3 spare tickets 1 on it's own and 2 beside each other , anyone interested?
WTF?
Had someone for them but they pulled out and could of off loaded them several times before. >:( >:( >:(
Any takers yet..........not interested just asking.
Quinlan's appeal stands.......
Halfpenny is out too
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 06:33:51 PM
Quinlan's appeal stands.......
Halfpenny is out too
Halfpenny will join up in two weeks though. feel sorry for Quinlan but he got the correct sentance!
Really disappointed that I can't make it but I had my stag in Madrid last weekend and another stag two weeks ago so absolutely smashed and honestly didn't expect Leinster to make the final.
Enjoy the trip lads.....
Delighted Johne (John Edward in case any of you were wonder where he got the name from) Murphy is available for selection and he should play even he did play midfield for Ellistown but we both played rugby at the same club so hopefully he plays well on a losing side. Nice Kildare connection in the final with the 2 Murphy's and Heaslip definitely involved and maybe Devin Toner and Fergus McFadden as well.
Musings and predictions on game tomorrow when teams are announced.
cant wait for this weekend!
Might go too. What's the weather forecast?
i'm sick just thinking about the game but heading off in about 5hrs and cant wait - safe travels everyone and hopefully the result goes our way!
Stuart Barnes
Leicester have the solid consistency and the ability to win matches when they have not played well. Having said that, they have played pretty well for the past few months and when they failed to find any sort of form last Saturday they still managed to beat London Irish to become English champions.
Leinster, in contrast, have not put together many cohesive efforts this season but their semi-final win against their great rivals from Munster was at a level of performance which the Tigers have been nowhere near emulating this campaign. If they can repeat the quality of that effort they will become the Heineken Cup champions unless Leicester produce their best 80 minutes of the season.
Having watched Leicester throughout the season and Leinster for most of their campaign I think it is fair to suggest that the Tigers lack the potential to match the Dublin side's best. Against that, Leinster have an awful lot to prove. They need to show that one epic performance was not just a staggering statement of anger aimed at a fellow Irish team who have garnered all the eulogies and trophies while Leinster have been mocked for their failure to deliver on the big day.
Their Heineken Cup campaign has been a muddling mediocre affair, with one dashing effort against London Wasps to go with the muscularity and accuracy of the semi-final. The win against Harlequins in the quarter-final was fortunate. Had Nick Evans been 100 per cent fit, he would probably have steered or booted the London team past Leinster but the luck and some sterling defensive work was with the Irish and it was they who sneaked into a semi.
Heineken Cup winners need lucky breaks and maybe that away quarter-final win was the moment for Leinster. In many ways that 6-5 victory had several similarities with Leicester's narrowest of Premiership final wins. Neither side played with profound belief but both harnessed the organisation of their defences to hang on.
Both sides indeed seemed short on self-belief but made it to the win. The first victory for Leinster in five attempts in England may have fuelled their deficit of confidence while the Tigers, so deadly at the semi-final stage but so poor in recent finals, needed any sort of trophy lift to lift their own belief. Geordan Murphy apart, the Tigers looked frozen in fear as they emerged from the Twickenham tunnel for their team photograph an hour before the final. This was not stony-faced concentration but a twitch of fear from a club used to losing big games.
Forget about the way the Tigers played, as we have all just about forgotten the nervousness of Leinster's quarter-final. The win, for both sides, was all that mattered. Murphy is right to say that the Tigers will stand no chance if they play as they did in the Premiership final (although this is predicated on an assumption that their Irish opponents will rise to the so far one-off levels of the Munster match) but there is little doubt in my mind that the Tigers will leave that form behind. The pressure, with one trophy in the bag, is off and the Tigers can shoot for Europe safe in the knowledge that this has been a successful season.
It places more pressure on Leinster who, should they lose, will be barracked as the team with the ability to touch for club greatness as they did in Toulouse in 2006 but not the appetite, the guts or the nerve to take the title. The Munster victory will mean nothing if they lose.
Who can Leinster rely on to guarantee a certain level of performance? Rocky Elsom would be the first name mentioned in terms of form and consistency but Brian O'Driscoll has been only a little way behind him and has that certain something on so many big occasions. If the Tigers tame both men they are halfway towards wrecking the Leinster game and bringing the match down a notch to a level where their collective excellence at the breakdown and knowledge of Heineken Cup history gives them an edge.
The decision whether to start Alesana Tuilagi after his harsh four-week ban is crucial. Johne Murphy has done well but the Samoan is a central cog in the Tigers attack game; without him they are patient in possession but occasionally short of a punch. Murphy's sinuous game at the back balances well with Tuilagi. In tandem they can threaten any opponent.
Inside them the ricocheting efforts of Dan Hipkiss has the Tigers midfield bouncing. If Gordon D'Arcy slows him down that becomes a big gain for Leinster. They might need it because the Tigers look to have an edge at half back where Julian Dupuy has been superb all season while Sam Vesty has been a revelation at fly half. Nerves got to him last Saturday but he will be all the better for the experience. Johnny Sexton was most impressive coming off the bench at Croke Park but this final represents unchartered waters for him.
He will be pressed throughout by Ben Woods, Leicester's invisible man on the flank who does so much work but is rarely noted. Jordan Crane has a higher profile but is essentially a conservative ball-carrier compared with Jamie Heaslip, who represents a massive threat alongside Elsom as a thunderous back-row runner, an area of the game where the Irish definitely eclipse the English.
The Tigers will want Martin Castrogiovanni back at prop but even if he fails to make the final, the English team will fancy their chances in the scrum although Cian Healy is a player of immense potential and Stan Wright deeply underestimated around the park. Shane Jennings and Leo Cullen, the strong captain of the side, are both former Tiger stalwarts and their knowledge of Leicester ways could play some part in a game which, as I write this preview, seems to get ever closer on the scoreboard.
The Irish will win if they are at their best but Leicester are more likely to play to their full potential. They will be a different team to the one that grasped the English title but with Elsom and that man O'Driscoll in their ranks I think Leinster will rise to the occasion and keep the Heineken Cup in Ireland.
Best of luck to Leinster tomorrow. Keep the cup in Ireland lads.
The Leinster team to face the Leicester Tigers in Saturday's Heineken Cup final in Murrayfield (KO: 5pm) has been named...
The side shows one change to the starting line up from the semi final victory over Munster with Jonathan Sexton set to partner Chris Whitaker at half-back, while Brian O'Driscoll resumes his centre partnership with Gordon D'Arcy.
In the pack Rocky Elsom starts in the back-row alongside Ireland duo Shane Jennings and Jamie Heaslip, with Leo Cullen leading the side for what is the province's first appearance in the Heineken Cup final.
Rob Kearney is named on a strong replacements bench alongside the likes of Girvan Dempsey, Devin Toner and Sean O'Brien.
LEINSTER:
15: Isa Nacewa
14: Shane Horgan
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Chris Whitaker
1: Cian Healy
2: Bernard Jackman
3: Stan Wright
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Malcolm O'Kelly
6: Rocky Elsom
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip
REPLACEMENTS:
16: John Fogarty
17: Ronan McCormack
18: Devin Toner
19: Sean O'Brien
20: Simon Keogh
21: Rob Kearney
22: Girvan Dempsey
Leicester: G Murphy (capt); Hamilton, Erinle, Hipkiss, Tuilagi; Vesty, Dupuy; Ayerza, Chuter, Castrogiovanni, Croft, Kay, Newby, Woods, Crane.
Replacements: Kayser, White, L Deacon, Moody, Ellis, Smith, J Murphy.
Having seen the two teams announced, I think if the Leinster Pack can front up and gain parity somewhat then I think the Leinster backline has to much guile for the Leicester backs. The Tigers are very much about power and grunt and are the typical template for English rugby but rugby has moved on since the glory days of 2003 and I think Vesty at 10 can be easliy exploited, he has a great eye for a break but Jennings, Sexton, D'Arcy and O'Driscoll are all excellent defenders and I just can't see Vesty breaking the gainline, his two centres are just bash them up as is Tuiliagi leaving only Hamilton and G Murphy to create. If Leinster can force the Tigers and Vesty down the wrong channels I can see them making hay at the breakdown but Leinster need to use their turn-over ball wisely, big onus on Sexton here, hopefully he won't be too nervous and he can ping Leicester back, hopefully he'll get an easy shot goal early on to settle his nerves.
A lot things need to happen for Leinster to win
- Jackman needs to be on the money with his darts
- Sexton needs to settle and enjoy the game
- Turnover ball needs to go wide early or into the corner via the boot, if they go up the middle Leicester will love this
- Clean and quick scrum ball
- Nacewa into the line as much as possible
- Heaslip and Rocky to get their paws on the pill at least 4/5 times each
- Leinster are patient in attack, Leicester cheat so as long Leinster don't panic the penalties will come
- And finally if the tempo is high and the intensity even higher then Leinster are fitter and fresher and could pull away in the end...
For anyone travelling enjoy the game and hopefully Saturday will be a blue just as Sunday will be a white day.....
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 22, 2009, 02:23:29 PM
Having seen the two teams announced, I think if the Leinster Pack can front up and gain parity somewhat then I think the Leinster backline has to much guile for the Leicester backs. The Tigers are very much about power and grunt and are the typical template for English rugby but rugby has moved on since the glory days of 2003 and I think Vesty at 10 can be easliy exploited, he has a great eye for a break but Jennings, Sexton, D'Arcy and O'Driscoll are all excellent defenders and I just can't see Vesty breaking the gainline, his two centres are just bash them up as is Tuiliagi leaving only Hamilton and G Murphy to create. If Leinster can force the Tigers and Vesty down the wrong channels I can see them making hay at the breakdown but Leinster need to use their turn-over ball wisely, big onus on Sexton here, hopefully he won't be too nervous and he can ping Leicester back, hopefully he'll get an easy shot goal early on to settle his nerves.
A lot things need to happen for Leinster to win
- Jackman needs to be on the money with his darts
- Sexton needs to settle and enjoy the game
- Turnover ball needs to go wide early or into the corner via the boot, if they go up the middle Leicester will love this
- Clean and quick scrum ball
- Nacewa into the line as much as possible
- Heaslip and Rocky to get their paws on the pill at least 4/5 times each
- Leinster are patient in attack, Leicester cheat so as long Leinster don't panic the penalties will come
- And finally if the tempo is high and the intensity even higher then Leinster are fitter and fresher and could pull away in the end...
For anyone travelling enjoy the game and hopefully Saturday will be a blue just as Sunday will be a white day.....
Agree with all of that except the last bit...
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k236/docathail/inglorbast.jpg)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 22, 2009, 02:23:29 PM
Having seen the two teams announced, I think if the Leinster Pack can front up and gain parity somewhat then I think the Leinster backline has to much guile for the Leicester backs. The Tigers are very much about power and grunt and are the typical template for English rugby but rugby has moved on since the glory days of 2003 and I think Vesty at 10 can be easliy exploited, he has a great eye for a break but Jennings, Sexton, D'Arcy and O'Driscoll are all excellent defenders and I just can't see Vesty breaking the gainline, his two centres are just bash them up as is Tuiliagi leaving only Hamilton and G Murphy to create. If Leinster can force the Tigers and Vesty down the wrong channels I can see them making hay at the breakdown but Leinster need to use their turn-over ball wisely, big onus on Sexton here, hopefully he won't be too nervous and he can ping Leicester back, hopefully he'll get an easy shot goal early on to settle his nerves.
A lot things need to happen for Leinster to win
- Jackman needs to be on the money with his darts
- Sexton needs to settle and enjoy the game
- Turnover ball needs to go wide early or into the corner via the boot, if they go up the middle Leicester will love this
- Clean and quick scrum ball
- Nacewa into the line as much as possible
- Heaslip and Rocky to get their paws on the pill at least 4/5 times each
- Leinster are patient in attack, Leicester cheat so as long Leinster don't panic the penalties will come
- And finally if the tempo is high and the intensity even higher then Leinster are fitter and fresher and could pull away in the end...
For anyone travelling enjoy the game and hopefully Saturday will be a blue just as Sunday will be a white day.....
neither team are prolific in the kicking dept, I think Leinster will win it if Sexton has a good day with the boot and leinster keep their discipline and not react to leicesters cheating. I agree penalties will come.
I resume Nacewa is backup kicker...
Kearney is generally the backup kicker but as he is only on the bench I assume D'Arcy is next in line, has kicked for Leinster before. Both teams are without their frontline kickers but I'd say Sexton would be better than Dupuy in that he has always kicked where Dupuy is just a stand-in. Interesting that Dupuy is rumoured to be off to to Stade Francis, not a good week for such speculation..
Leicester have really set their stall out by picking Tuilagi ahead of Johne Murphy. Geordan is the only player in their backline with any sort of guile or creativity. Hipkiss is a crash ball merchant a la most English centres. Erinle is quick but his footballing skills are quite poor. If Leinster can gain parity up front and force Leicester to go wide I'm not sure that backline will have the cutting edge against a Leinster defence that has been excellent. (Is Mauger injured or what? I've seen Leicester play a few times this season and he hasn't been featuring at all.)
The game is going to be won and lost up front. Healy, Jackman and Wright have to front up big time. If they can withstand the onslaught up front then Leinster will win. Quick ball is an absolute must though.
Best of luck to Leinster, went to a fair few Heinken cup games in Dublin when I worked there, and there are some team to watch, entertaining attacking rugby. Would love to see BOD get a heinken medal.
I reckon Nacewa is back-up kicker. He hasnt kicked for Leinster before but he did kick plenty of times in NZ.
While Leicester have the superior front row, I think Leinster have the best team on paper. Jamie, Rocky and Shane I'm hoping will all have massive games. And hopefully Sexton can be as good as he has been recently. Leicester have a very strong bench, much stronger than ours and you can count on it that if Plan A doesnt work, they also have a very strong Plan B and then Plan C. Harry Ellis looked like he was chewing a nettle in the after match celebrations last week when he was an unused sub. Its a guarantee that he'll be 100% fired up when he gets his chance.
I'm very hopeful of victory but finals are funny beasts. All kinds of things happen. Remember O'Gara's first HEC final, zero from four for his kicks at goal.
Good luck lads!
Best of luck to Leinster. Funnily enough I was more confident of beating Munster in the semi as I am of them winning this one.
Best of luck lads. What time is it on at?
its on at 5 Ziggy , Best of luck to the leinster lads
Any links to where you can watch it?
Yeh good luck Leinster...
Was talking to my mate whos a bookie earlier and this games a nightmare for him....
He says people are doing bets and writing Lie.....and a scribble after it...Then who ever wins they will come in and try to claim the money!!
There will be some arguements later ...LoL
13-9 to Leicester despite Leinster having the best of the first half.
Superb win for Leinster. Not a bad year for Irish rugby!!
Well done Leinster.
Well done leinster. Very happy for the likes of big mal, BOD and Horgan. Great touch by BOD to mention the old guard. Congrats to the leinster fans on here as well. Enjoy it lads.
Congratulations to Leinster. Fair play - they've taken a lot of stick over the years but its good to see them making their mark. O'Driscoll really is a class act - on and off the pitch.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on May 23, 2009, 09:55:01 PM
Congratulations to Leinster. Fair play - they've taken a lot of stick over the years but its good to see them making their mark. O'Driscoll really is a class act - on and off the pitch.
Wasnt it him who was playing pocket billiards in front of aul lizzie?
regardlress. Well done leinster, Irish rugby continues to go from strength to strength. ;D
Quote from: stew on May 23, 2009, 10:17:13 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on May 23, 2009, 09:55:01 PM
Congratulations to Leinster. Fair play - they've taken a lot of stick over the years but its good to see them making their mark. O'Driscoll really is a class act - on and off the pitch.
Wasnt it him who was playing pocket billiards in front of aul lizzie?
regardlress. Well done leinster, Irish rugby continues to go from strength to strength. ;D
Na that was O'Gara.
great win for leinster,fu*k sky had to listen on old radio,didnt realise it was only on sky sports 2,only have sky sports 1,sat down to watch it and then could have put the boot through the sky box!
I thought the Sky coverage was crap.
If BOD has a good Lions tour he has to be a strong candidate for international rugby player of the year.
I am pleased for Leinster rugby. Great day for Irish and Celtic rugby. Just back from an Ulster branch RFC. Each to a man was full-on for the guys. Big party to celebrate your/our victory. Delighted ;D
Well done Leinster on winning the Heineken Cup. Fantastic year for Irish Rugby.
Well Done to Leinster on keeping the Irish flag flying in Europe. Tremendous year for Irish rugby and in particular O Driscoll who is an icon of Irish sport.An example to the GAA how a winner can be shown as a role-model to all kids.Something the GAA dont do enough of IMO.
Delighted for Leinster, congrats. Delighted for BOD aswell and all the players O Kelly and Horgan who were great servants to Irish rugby.
the bookies could not split them yesterday, great win all the same for Leinster. never seen the match so'll settle for the highlights
Great win and fair play to them. O'Driscoll is one in a million and Rocky must be the best in the business.
brill game! BOD and rocky elsom were class!
Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 24, 2009, 11:13:57 AM
brill game! BOD and rocky elsom were class!
Thought Jamie Heaslip and Cian Healy were brilliant also.
Fantastic day.
What a fantastic result for Leinster, raging I wasn't there seemingly it was a fantastic occasion for everyone there, should have gone there on my stag :-[
Anyway I have serious man-love for Rocky Elson, what a player, have never witnessed a player have such an impact in one season as this guy across any sport, absolute legend. And speaking of Legends, delighted for BOD absolute class on and off the pitch speaks volumes for the guy that even in the mist of victory celebrations he took time out to mention Corrigan, Costello and Hickie.
I just noticed my first post I completely wrote off Leinster but as the season progress I'm quite chuffed with myself that I was able to idenify what Cheika was trying to do, i.e sacrafice flair for defensively solidity and making sure every person knew their defensive resposibility, defence wins cups and that's what won this HC for Leinster, best defensive record in Europe.
The game itself was as intense as they come and the last 20 was about trying not to lose rather than trying to win from both teams and I thnk Leicester's hard end of season caught up with them and physically and mentally they were too tired and in such a tight game that made the difference.
Still nice to Cheika keeping the feet on the ground, next season will be hard but with BOD (the new Keane) around I can see Leinster pushing on from here...
Just back from a great weekend in edinburgh. Dont need to say anytihng about the match or result, it speaks for itself
The only black spot for me was the behavior of the Munster fans. Id say they nearly outnumbered the Leicester fans! But they were there wearing their jerseys and roaring 'Munster' as if they were playing ( in pubs on friday night and on the streets!). It really was pathetic. At the game there was large pockets of lads in Munster fans shouting and cheering for Leicester. If that was the way they felt why the f**k go to the game? All this is coming from an impartial mayo man who would have a lot of grá for munster but my opinion of them has changed completely after this weekend.
Quote from: ludermor on May 25, 2009, 01:26:45 AM
Just back from a great weekend in edinburgh. Dont need to say anytihng about the match or result, it speaks for itself
The only black spot for me was the behavior of the Munster fans. Id say they nearly outnumbered the Leicester fans! But they were there wearing their jerseys and roaring 'Munster' as if they were playing ( in pubs on friday night and on the streets!). It really was pathetic. At the game there was large pockets of lads in Munster fans shouting and cheering for Leicester. If that was the way they felt why the f**k go to the game? All this is coming from an impartial mayo man who would have a lot of grá for munster but my opinion of them has changed completely after this weekend.
I dont think that there is anything wrong with that, it would have been nice it they supported Leinster but they are entitled to cheer for whoever they want.
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 25, 2009, 09:22:53 AM
I dont think that there is anything wrong with that, it would have been nice it they supported Leinster but they are entitled to cheer for whoever they want.
Its a long way to go at great expense to be sore, infantile losers.
Quote from: dublinfella on May 25, 2009, 10:30:18 AM
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 25, 2009, 09:22:53 AM
I dont think that there is anything wrong with that, it would have been nice it they supported Leinster but they are entitled to cheer for whoever they want.
Its a long way to go at great expense to be sore, infantile losers.
Agree with that, and disappointed if there were a lot of Munster fans at that craic. To be honest I'd say at least 8/10 fans that I know were shouting for Leinster on Saturday. Also the camera shots seemed to show Munster fans celebrating Leinster scores and all.
To be honest, wearing the Munster jersey I would see as a good touch, if they supported Leinster. It would show that Munster fans were behind Leinster. Of course chanting Munster is a bit daft, but maybe there was drink involved?
Any Munster fan that cheered for Leicester is badly wrong in my opinion. Any Munster fan that wore their Munster jersey, and cheered for Leinster is spot on.
Quote from: dublinfella on May 25, 2009, 10:30:18 AM
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 25, 2009, 09:22:53 AM
I dont think that there is anything wrong with that, it would have been nice it they supported Leinster but they are entitled to cheer for whoever they want.
Its a long way to go at great expense to be sore, infantile losers.
It is a long way to go but im sure they had the trips booked a long time ago.
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 25, 2009, 10:45:21 AM
It is a long way to go but im sure they had the trips booked a long time ago.
So add arrogant to the infantile loser tag. Cheering for brits over another Irish side?
I understand fans having a trip sorted, but you go and enjoy the day and if you can't bring yourself to cheer for your rivals, say nothing.
Its pathetic stuff.
I'm still in Edinburgh! Hoof Hearted made wisely made a run for it yesterday.
Quote from: muppet on May 25, 2009, 11:50:31 AM
I'm still in Edinburgh! Hoof Hearted made wisely made a run for it yesterday.
after the saturday i spent with you guys, it was more like a casual stroll i assure you !!
great day, both socially and at the match. I think everyone should post on here how great a weekend it was, just to make Dinny even more depressed coming up to his wedding ;)
PS muppet, have you left you the pubic triangle yet. The credit card must be taking some bashing at this stage !!
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 25, 2009, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: dublinfella on May 25, 2009, 10:30:18 AM
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 25, 2009, 09:22:53 AM
I dont think that there is anything wrong with that, it would have been nice it they supported Leinster but they are entitled to cheer for whoever they want.
Its a long way to go at great expense to be sore, infantile losers.
Agree with that, and disappointed if there were a lot of Munster fans at that craic. To be honest I'd say at least 8/10 fans that I know were shouting for Leinster on Saturday. Also the camera shots seemed to show Munster fans celebrating Leinster scores and all.
To be honest, wearing the Munster jersey I would see as a good touch, if they supported Leinster. It would show that Munster fans were behind Leinster. Of course chanting Munster is a bit daft, but maybe there was drink involved?
Any Munster fan that cheered for Leicester is badly wrong in my opinion. Any Munster fan that wore their Munster jersey, and cheered for Leinster is spot on.
Pathetic really but thats the mentality down there. I don't have a huge gra for Leinster rugby but I was delighted munster were stuffed this year just to shut up some of their fans.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 25, 2009, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 25, 2009, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: dublinfella on May 25, 2009, 10:30:18 AM
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 25, 2009, 09:22:53 AM
I dont think that there is anything wrong with that, it would have been nice it they supported Leinster but they are entitled to cheer for whoever they want.
Its a long way to go at great expense to be sore, infantile losers.
Agree with that, and disappointed if there were a lot of Munster fans at that craic. To be honest I'd say at least 8/10 fans that I know were shouting for Leinster on Saturday. Also the camera shots seemed to show Munster fans celebrating Leinster scores and all.
To be honest, wearing the Munster jersey I would see as a good touch, if they supported Leinster. It would show that Munster fans were behind Leinster. Of course chanting Munster is a bit daft, but maybe there was drink involved?
Any Munster fan that cheered for Leicester is badly wrong in my opinion. Any Munster fan that wore their Munster jersey, and cheered for Leinster is spot on.
Pathetic really but thats the mentality down there. I don't have a huge gra for Leinster rugby but I was delighted munster were stuffed this year just to shut up some of their fans.
I'm glad you said some of their fans, because I have to say most fans, by far, were hoping Leinster would win, and are glad they did. Of course they'll want to beat them next year, but that's natural.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 25, 2009, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 25, 2009, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 25, 2009, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: dublinfella on May 25, 2009, 10:30:18 AM
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 25, 2009, 09:22:53 AM
I dont think that there is anything wrong with that, it would have been nice it they supported Leinster but they are entitled to cheer for whoever they want.
Its a long way to go at great expense to be sore, infantile losers.
Agree with that, and disappointed if there were a lot of Munster fans at that craic. To be honest I'd say at least 8/10 fans that I know were shouting for Leinster on Saturday. Also the camera shots seemed to show Munster fans celebrating Leinster scores and all.
To be honest, wearing the Munster jersey I would see as a good touch, if they supported Leinster. It would show that Munster fans were behind Leinster. Of course chanting Munster is a bit daft, but maybe there was drink involved?
Any Munster fan that cheered for Leicester is badly wrong in my opinion. Any Munster fan that wore their Munster jersey, and cheered for Leinster is spot on.
Pathetic really but thats the mentality down there. I don't have a huge gra for Leinster rugby but I was delighted munster were stuffed this year just to shut up some of their fans.
I'm glad you said some of their fans, because I have to say most fans, by far, were hoping Leinster would win, and are glad they did. Of course they'll want to beat them next year, but that's natural.
Cork is in Munster.
Quote from: Billys Boots on May 25, 2009, 01:54:25 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 25, 2009, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 25, 2009, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 25, 2009, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: dublinfella on May 25, 2009, 10:30:18 AM
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 25, 2009, 09:22:53 AM
I dont think that there is anything wrong with that, it would have been nice it they supported Leinster but they are entitled to cheer for whoever they want.
Its a long way to go at great expense to be sore, infantile losers.
Agree with that, and disappointed if there were a lot of Munster fans at that craic. To be honest I'd say at least 8/10 fans that I know were shouting for Leinster on Saturday. Also the camera shots seemed to show Munster fans celebrating Leinster scores and all.
To be honest, wearing the Munster jersey I would see as a good touch, if they supported Leinster. It would show that Munster fans were behind Leinster. Of course chanting Munster is a bit daft, but maybe there was drink involved?
Any Munster fan that cheered for Leicester is badly wrong in my opinion. Any Munster fan that wore their Munster jersey, and cheered for Leinster is spot on.
Pathetic really but thats the mentality down there. I don't have a huge gra for Leinster rugby but I was delighted munster were stuffed this year just to shut up some of their fans.
I'm glad you said some of their fans, because I have to say most fans, by far, were hoping Leinster would win, and are glad they did. Of course they'll want to beat them next year, but that's natural.
Cork is in Munster.
Good point.
Well done Leinster!
Great to see young lads like Johnny Sexton and Cian Healy playing such a central role in the success. It bodes well for Irish rugby to see some new talent coming through. These two lads along with the likes of Earls, Ryan, Toner, O'Brien, Pollock and Cave are going to form the spine of the national side for the next decade.
Was some weekend . Still can't believe it .
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 25, 2009, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 25, 2009, 11:50:31 AM
I'm still in Edinburgh! Hoof Hearted made wisely made a run for it yesterday.
after the saturday i spent with you guys, it was more like a casual stroll i assure you !!
great day, both socially and at the match. I think everyone should post on here how great a weekend it was, just to make Dinny even more depressed coming up to his wedding ;)
PS muppet, have you left you the pubic triangle yet. The credit card must be taking some bashing at this stage !!
It has. I'll post it back to you today, but don't let the missus see it.
What a great weekend that was, winning the match getting to meet up with old school pals as well. The match itself was kind of unremarkable but that was not a proplem. Good to see guys like Healy and Sexton coming up good on such a big occasion. Healy is only 21 and has won a heineken cup playing at prop forward. The guy is a stud and a bit of a beast in the flesh. Was anyone else on the last train back from Edinburgh to glasgow on saturday night, that was an epic as well. They were having trouble giving away tickets outside the ground on saturday.
Twas dry on Saturday morning so I hopped on a flight to Edinburgh. Met ONeill in Edinburgh airport on his way home. Strange, I thought, that he wouldn't stay for the game.
Anyhow, great weekend, Edinburgh's a great city. Atmosphere at the match (the first time I have ever been at a game of rugby football) was excellent and certainly in much better humour than any other sporting crowd I have been in. However those who watched the game on television seem to think that it was a great spectacle - I thought it was enjoyable. IMO, rugby is a game better watched on tv than in the flesh. Leinster fully deserved their win. I thought BOD was obviously struggling with injury, he spent a fair bit of the second half on the wing. Elsom looks like some boy and I thought Luke Fitzgerald had a great game. Didn't see any instances whatsoever of Munster supporters behaving badly or supporting Leicester.
It was a great weekend - you'd have loved it Dinny.
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/12_12775.php
with this seasons final still fresh in the memory, watch the draw for the 2009/2010 tournament live here at 12.00 tomorrow Tue 9th June
Wasnt sure where to put this, but i see Munster have signalled their intent by signing SA centre Jean De Villiers. Good signing. Is either Tipoki or Mafi moving on ?
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on July 20, 2009, 09:22:23 PM
Wasnt sure where to put this, but i see Munster have signalled their intent by signing SA centre Jean De Villiers. Good signing. Is either Tipoki or Mafi moving on ?
Tipoki has gone, I think he may have retired.
Tipoki has gone back to NZ citing his ongoing hamstring troubles as the reason for his departure.
Not too sure about De Villiers to be honest. He's failed to reproduce his form of '05 & '06 in the past while. I suspect he might have more of a Christian Cullen like impact than a Dougie Howlett or Trevor Halstead like impact.
I'd like to see Keith Earls getting more game time in the centre this year because I think that's eventually going to be his best position in the long term. Looks like he'll be kept on the wing though with Mafi and De Villiers in the midfield and Warwick at full-back.
De Villiers will be a good signing for Munster but he's no Rocky Elsom. With BOD creeping closer to retirement (3 years max) I too would like to see Earls nail down the centre spot, Howlett, Warick, De Villiers and Mafi are all good enough to be certain starters for Munster, 2 too many Non-Irish Qualified backs for my liking.
Wasn't there talk a while ago that the IRB were getting rid of the rule that you couldn't play for another nation if you'd represented represented your home nation at 7s or u21 level? Paul Warwick would be eligible for Irish selection if this rule was changed. Considering the lack of options at 10 he'd be a useful addition to the squad.
I hope Felix Jones gets a decent run out during the new season. He looked a great talent during the Churchill Cup.
Played and coached against Felix Jones, amazing talent and if given the opportunity he'll shine just unfortunate that he had Kearney and Nacewa ahead at of him at Leinster but definitely the right move.
No those rules were never changed hence Warwick and Mafi just aren't eligible.
I think Gerry Thornley was on OTB some time last year saying that the IRB were considering doing away with that rule. Hard to see anything coming of it now though with no news about it since.
Mafi and BOD in the centre would be fairly formidable! :o
Pity.
News just in, gob-smacked
QuoteQuins stunned by fake injury fine
Williams has been banned for 12 months
Harlequins have been hit by a massive £215,000 fine for fabricating an injury to their winger Tom Williams in last season's Heineken Cup quarter-final.
Williams, who has been suspended for 12 months, came off the field in Quins' 6-5 defeat by Leinster on 12 April.
His departure, ostensibly for a blood injury, allowed Quins to bring specialist goalkicker Nick Evans back on the field for the last few minutes.
The club and Williams say they are "considering their position".
Harlequins director of rugby Dean Richards and two members of the club's medical team had misconduct complaints dismissed against them.
"We are both surprised and disappointed at this decision - particularly so in the light of the acquittal of Dean Richards, Steph Brennan and Dr Wendy Chapman on similar or identical charges," read a statement from the club.
"The club and the player will consider their position in the light of the written judgement due to be handed down by the disciplinary committee."
606: DEBATE
Blimey, it sounds harsh but sends out a warning
kingwfc4ever
Fly-half Evans departed injured in the 47th minute, before his replacement at number 10 Chris Malone was also helped off hurt later in the second half.
Evans then reappeared after Williams, who seemed to have blood around his mouth, departed the action.
Television footage - which formed part of the evidence looked at by the ERC panel, along with statements from several witnesses - appeared to show Williams winking as he left the pitch
With the match on a knife-edge, Evans had a late attempt at a drop-goal to put Quins into the semi-finals - but his effort was wide of the posts.
"It was the view of the committee that this was a very serious offence and one that damaged the reputation of the tournament and of rugby union," read a statement from ERC.
"Accordingly the committee imposed a fine of 250,000 euros (£215,000) on Harlequins, of which 50% is suspended for two years.
"The committee also suspended Mr Williams from playing rugby for a period of 12 months up to and including 19, July 2010."
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 20, 2009, 10:14:05 PM
News just in, gob-smacked
QuoteQuins stunned by fake injury fine
Williams has been banned for 12 months
Harlequins have been hit by a massive £215,000 fine for fabricating an injury to their winger Tom Williams in last season's Heineken Cup quarter-final.
Williams, who has been suspended for 12 months, came off the field in Quins' 6-5 defeat by Leinster on 12 April.
His departure, ostensibly for a blood injury, allowed Quins to bring specialist goalkicker Nick Evans back on the field for the last few minutes.
The club and Williams say they are "considering their position".
Harlequins director of rugby Dean Richards and two members of the club's medical team had misconduct complaints dismissed against them.
"We are both surprised and disappointed at this decision - particularly so in the light of the acquittal of Dean Richards, Steph Brennan and Dr Wendy Chapman on similar or identical charges," read a statement from the club.
"The club and the player will consider their position in the light of the written judgement due to be handed down by the disciplinary committee."
606: DEBATE
Blimey, it sounds harsh but sends out a warning
kingwfc4ever
Fly-half Evans departed injured in the 47th minute, before his replacement at number 10 Chris Malone was also helped off hurt later in the second half.
Evans then reappeared after Williams, who seemed to have blood around his mouth, departed the action.
Television footage - which formed part of the evidence looked at by the ERC panel, along with statements from several witnesses - appeared to show Williams winking as he left the pitch
With the match on a knife-edge, Evans had a late attempt at a drop-goal to put Quins into the semi-finals - but his effort was wide of the posts.
"It was the view of the committee that this was a very serious offence and one that damaged the reputation of the tournament and of rugby union," read a statement from ERC.
"Accordingly the committee imposed a fine of 250,000 euros (£215,000) on Harlequins, of which 50% is suspended for two years.
"The committee also suspended Mr Williams from playing rugby for a period of 12 months up to and including 19, July 2010."
Wow! Winking is a 12 months suspension in rugby. Spear tackles are ok but winking definately out.
that is crazy considering the doc and the coach got off...
Thats very harsh on the player himself. Im sure it wasn't his idea? Far worse things happen in rugby which get little or no punishment. This must be the first time this had ever happened?
Quote from: tyroneboi on July 20, 2009, 10:34:29 PM
Thats very harsh on the player himself. Im sure it wasn't his idea? Far worse things happen in rugby which get little or no punishment. This must be the first time this had ever happened?
yep and they are really making sure that somebody doesnt abuse the blood sub again...
Quote from: Tankie on July 20, 2009, 10:40:56 PM
Quote from: tyroneboi on July 20, 2009, 10:34:29 PM
Thats very harsh on the player himself. Im sure it wasn't his idea? Far worse things happen in rugby which get little or no punishment. This must be the first time this had ever happened?
yep and they are really making sure that somebody doesnt abuse the blood sub again...
Serves him right and am glad to see this . If you don't come out down out fore planned and tactical cheating Rugby will end up worse than soccer .
A bit harsh with that suspension for Williams but the 250,000 fine for Harlequins was well deserved.
below is a link to the Churchill Cup with Felix Jones and company. Jones, Sean Cronin the hooker and McFadden the hooker all looked good in this. Where is Cronin based? Jones is on his way to Munster as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BivmRbku5uE&feature=related
Cronin is with Connacht at the moment. He's originally from Limerick and played AIL for Shannon. Getting gametime and experience in the west before heading back to Munster (á la Jerry Fla) I suppose.
His throwing needs a bit of work but he should be knocking on the door of the international team in two or three years. Could see him travelling to the next RWC as backup hooker to Fla and Rory Best.
I watched all of Ireland's games in the Churchill Cup. McFadden was the star - I'd have absolutely no worries about him stepping into centre for a big Leinster game if either BOD or Darce were unavailable for some reason. Felix Jones wasn't far behind.
In the pack Cronin looked super in the loose. Sean O'Brien did very well at flanker until he got injured, then a Munster guy (who's name escapes me) came in for the last couple of games and was just as good if not better. The mad Best lad was good at 6, especially in the final v England when he was super.
I havent seen a whole lot of Johne Murphy with Leicester, but never been much impressed. But in fairness to him he looked good in these games.
Out half was a bit of a disappointment. An Ulster guy (Niall O'Connor I think was his name) got most game time and Sexton came in for the final - neither played particulary well.
As for the feigning injury, I heard Jonathon Davies talking about the first Lions test in the week between the 1st and 2nd tests. He said the Lions made a big mistake by not cutting Vickery after about 20 minutes, thereby allowing Vickery a rest for a blood injury and seeing how Adam Jones would fare :o He said they did it all the time in his rugby league days!
Fixtures out for next year.
http://mailer2.matchdaychat.com/lt/t_go.php?i=6157&e=MTUzOTEzOA==&l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ercrugby.com%2Feng%2F12_12877.php
Munster are not joking this season : DeVilliers and now this.
Munster have signed French international prop Julien Brugnaut from Dax, subject to medical clearance.
The three-times capped 27-year-old was a member of the France squad for the 2008 RBS Six Nations and made his debut against Scotland in that competition.
Brugnaut, who travelled to Ireland yesterday along with his agent, said: 'I was immediately impressed with what I saw and heard. It is a very professional set-up. I am of course well aware of Munster and their great history in the Heineken Cup and I am very happy to be joining them and looking forward to the challenge.'
Munster CEO Garrett Fitzgerald welcomed the deal, saying: 'It is the first time we have had a French international in the squad. We are delighted to be able to attract a player of Julien's quality and I believe it is a move that will reap dividends for both Munster and the player himself.'
Brugnaut joins on a one-year deal that includes an option for a second year. He returned home earlier this afternoon and will join up with the rest of the Munster squad next week.
Munster still have first choice pair John Hayes and Marcus Horan to call on in the propping department and their fellow Irish international tighthead Tony Buckley is also still with the province, although they have recently lost the services of province stalwart Federico Pucciarello.
With Hayes, Horan and Buckley all having international commitments for Ireland and Munster expected to mount a challenge for both the Magners League and the Heineken Cup the move has been taken to bolster front row resources.
The fall out rumbles on it seems . . . . . .
Richards resigns Harlequins post
Dean Richards
Harlequins appointed Richards in May 2005
Dean Richards has resigned from his position as director of rugby at Guinness Premiership side Harlequins.
His decision comes after the year's ban given to back Tom Williams for faking a blood injury in last season's Heineken quarter-final against Leinster.
The club was also fined £213,000 by the European Rugby Cup panel.
Richards offered to step down during the process and a club statement on Saturday confirmed that his decision had been accepted.
Quins are currently reviewing the whole incident, and the statement read: "During the course of this process Dean Richards unreservedly tendered his resignation from his post as director of rugby. The board of Harlequins has accepted his resignation."
Richards and two members of the club's medical team had misconduct charges dismissed but Williams, who has announced he intends to appeal, and Quins were both found guilty of fabricating a cut to the mouth in order to allow substituted fly-half Nick Evans to return to the field with five minutes remaining of the match.
Television cameras spotted Williams winking towards the bench with "blood" smeared around his mouth.
The statement continued: "Following the hearing held and decision made by the ERC panel on 20 July, the club has conducted its own review of the incident. This review is still ongoing.
"As part of this process, the club has waited for the written judgment to ensure it had considered carefully the concerns and position of the ERC disciplinary panel.
"The club fully accepts the verdicts and sanctions imposed upon the club since it is accountable for the failings of its staff.
The level of scrutiny [clubs] now find themselves under means that procedures and processes which may have served us well in the past are no longer adequate
Harlequins statement
"The club feels strongly that the severity of the sanction meted out to Tom Williams is unfair and disproportionate and the club will support him in the event of an appeal on his part against the 12-month playing ban currently in place.
"We acknowledge that this whole episode has tarnished the image of the club, which has always sought to uphold the highest standards.
"The level of scrutiny that clubs such as Harlequins now find themselves under means that procedures and processes which may have served us well in the past are no longer adequate.
"The club is urgently undertaking a thorough review of its internal policies with a view to establishing an appropriate ethics code for all staff (both playing and non playing) covering a wide range of areas including respect for the laws of the game.
"While this process is still progressing there will no further comment."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/harlequins/8191209.stm
We had Leinster in Wicklow last Wednesday, half of county Wicklow and every child in the town was there collecting autographs ,even the lions. The players were great and even had time for a kickabout with the lads after their training session and was a fantastic occasion but o'driscoll really showed his true personality. He arrived 30 minutes late, demanded free drink and left after 15 minutes after signing abut 10 peoples jerseys. It was really awful for all the kids who had come to see their hero and put a blotch on a great day.
Quote from: Eastern_Pride on August 08, 2009, 04:57:13 PM
We had Leinster in Wicklow last Wednesday, half of county Wicklow and every child in the town was there collecting autographs ,even the lions. The players were great and even had time for a kickabout with the lads after their training session and was a fantastic occasion but o'driscoll really showed his true personality. He arrived 30 minutes late, demanded free drink and left after 15 minutes after signing abut 10 peoples jerseys. It was really awful for all the kids who had come to see their hero and put a blotch on a great day.
Is this O'Drscoll's typical form?
Quote from: Gaffer on August 08, 2009, 05:15:10 PM
Quote from: Eastern_Pride on August 08, 2009, 04:57:13 PM
We had Leinster in Wicklow last Wednesday, half of county Wicklow and every child in the town was there collecting autographs ,even the lions. The players were great and even had time for a kickabout with the lads after their training session and was a fantastic occasion but o'driscoll really showed his true personality. He arrived 30 minutes late, demanded free drink and left after 15 minutes after signing abut 10 peoples jerseys. It was really awful for all the kids who had come to see their hero and put a blotch on a great day.
Is this O'Drscoll's typical form?
Well he was asked to appear in blackrock college one day after a junior cup win, signed a piece of paper and told them to photocopy it
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on July 23, 2009, 01:43:30 PM
Fixtures out for next year.
http://mailer2.matchdaychat.com/lt/t_go.php?i=6157&e=MTUzOTEzOA==&l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ercrugby.com%2Feng%2F12_12877.php
Have you booked in for the final?
nah was working out too expensive, and what with Derry being in AI Final next year, it would be too much !!
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on August 09, 2009, 02:09:32 AM
nah was working out too expensive, and what with Derry being in AI Final next year, it would be too much !!
Cool, you can have another weekend with the Mayo boys!
Leinster have added a few players to help out their squad including Eoin reddan, Nathan Hines, Sean Beirne, Mike Ross and Strauss a 23 year old South African hooker. Hines should replace O'Kellly and move ahead of Toner in the second row battle. They have put together a pretty nice team again. Reddan will be a big improvement at scrum half. The other key thing is that they seeme to have managed their resources to a point where there will be a lot of Irish players on the team. Sean O'Brien will replace Elson, Sexton will replace Contepomi and Reddan will replace Whitaker. Hynes will probably get in ahead of Toner or O'Kelly and Van Der Linde will be in the front row if fit but Mike Ross might get ahead of Wright in the pecking order. With Cian Healy there is going to be big competition for a place in the front row.
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 12, 2009, 05:57:05 PM
Leinster have added a few players to help out their squad including Eoin reddan, Nathan Hines, Sean Beirne, Mike Ross and Strauss a 23 year old South African hooker. Hines should replace O'Kellly and move ahead of Toner in the second row battle. They have put together a pretty nice team again. Reddan will be a big improvement at scrum half. The other key thing is that they seeme to have managed their resources to a point where there will be a lot of Irish players on the team. Sean O'Brien will replace Elson, Sexton will replace Contepomi and Reddan will replace Whitaker. Hynes will probably get in ahead of Toner or O'Kelly and Van Der Linde will be in the front row if fit but Mike Ross might get ahead of Wright in the pecking order. With Cian Healy there is going to be big competition for a place in the front row.
Looking at this it seems like a fairly tasty squad and I can see at least one piece of silverware going their way. This could be Sexton's year to really prove himself as European standard.
Plenty of competition in the front row it seems. I hope Cian Healy doesn't get squeezed out. He needs game time to keep up his development. I'm not convinced by Mike Ross but Ireland's options on the tight-head side beyond Hayes and Buckley are fairly non-existant so hopefully he'll come good.
I hope Seán O'Brien gets a good run of games now Elsom has gone home. He's looked a serious talent anytime I've seen him in action and I'd expect him to have broken into the national side before the World Cup.
Harlequins should discover on Monday if they have been ejected from next season's Heineken Cup as the fallout continues from the latest scandal to have rocked rugby.
And the club could be further damaged by the appeal of their winger Tom Williams, to be heard by the same independent committee, against the one-year ban he received for faking a blood injury.
Quins must appear before the hearing in Glasgow tomorrow after ERC disciplinary officer Roger O'Connor contested the level of sanction imposed for their role in the incident.
Williams was found to have faked a cut mouth during the closing stages of last April's Heineken Cup quarter-final defeat by Leinster.
The act enabled substituted fly-half Nick Evans, a drop-goal specialist, to return to the field with five minutes remaining and Quins trailing 6-5.
A late drop-goal attempt was engineered for Evans but the New Zealand fly-half was struggling with a knee injury and pulled it wide.
The ensuing disciplinary hearing banned Williams for 12 months and fined Quins £215,000, half of which was suspended.
O'Connor is appealing the decision to clear then Harlequins director of rugby Dean Richards, doctor Dr Wendy Chapman and physiotherapist Steph Brennan, and is believed to be seeking the club's expulsion from the Heineken Cup.
Richards resigned last weekend, an act that has been read as an acceptance of responsibility following the incident that has caused huge embarrassment to Quins and rugby in general.
The club's reputation could be further tarnished when Williams gives evidence to contest the ban that left him shouldering most of the blame.
It is inconceivable that Williams was not acting on directions from his team's management and reports have claimed he will say tomorrow that his mouth was deliberately cut moments after the match to cover up the scandal.
Such a confession would further implicate Quins, leaving the club to count the cost of an affair that has been dubbed 'Bloodgate'.
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_5494736,00.html
The fallout continues .
Dean Richards has been banned for 3 years. More news to follow
Title changed.
Have absolute no sympathy for Richards, once a cheat always a cheat, integrity is very important and by cheating in the professional game you are cheating fellow professionals and denying them opportunity to make money in what is a very short career. Williams suspension reduction is right as he was just the patsy.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 18, 2009, 10:48:59 AM
Title changed.
Have absolute no sympathy for Richards, once a cheat always a cheat, integrity is very important and by cheating in the professional game you are cheating fellow professionals and denying them opportunity to make money in what is a very short career. Williams suspension reduction is right as he was just the patsy.
Agreed what he did was to drag the whole game down.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 18, 2009, 10:48:59 AM
Title changed.
Have absolute no sympathy for Richards, once a cheat always a cheat, integrity is very important and by cheating in the professional game you are cheating fellow professionals and denying them opportunity to make money in what is a very short career. Williams suspension reduction is right as he was just the patsy.
Spot on Dinny. An absolute disgrace what he did had what has gone on at Harlequins in trying to cover this up subsequently. I cannot fathom how they are still in the Heineken Cup this season!
Apparently this is not the first time that Richards has been behind such a pathetic stunt. His coaching career at the highest level is in tatters and his reputation within the game is forever tarnished. A stupid stupid man.
Misconduct Appeal Hearing Decisions
17 August 2009, 6:29 pm
An independent Appeal Committee convened in Glasgow on Monday, 17 August, to hear the appeals lodged against decisions of the independent Disciplinary Committee regarding the Heineken Cup quarter-final match between Harlequins and Leinster at the Twickenham Stoop on 12 April, 2009.
The original independent Disciplinary Committee, which convened over three days (2, 3 and 20 July), found that the Club (Harlequins) and Mr Tom Williams were guilty of Misconduct under the Heineken Cup Disciplinary Rules by fabricating a wound or blood injury in order to allow Nick Evans (No 10), who had earlier been substituted, to return to the field of play during the match.
The original Committee imposed a fine of 250,000 Euro on Harlequins, of which 50 percent was suspended for two years, and the Committee suspended Mr Williams from playing rugby for a period of 12 months up to and including 19 July, 2010.
The Committee found that the Misconduct Complaints against club officials Dean Richards (Director of Rugby), Dr Wendy Chapman (Doctor) and Steph Brennan (Physiotherapist) had not been proven.
Mr Williams lodged an appeal against the sanction imposed on him and ERC Disciplinary Officer Roger O'Connor appealed the level of sanction imposed on the Club (Harlequins) and the decision of the Committee to dismiss Misconduct Complaints against the three Club officials.
Appeal Decisions
After almost 14 hours of hearings the independent Appeal Committee, chaired by Rod McKenzie (Scotland) and also comprising Professor Lorne D Crerar (Scotland) and Mark McParland (Ireland), issued the following decisions.
Tom Williams: Following the introduction of new evidence by Mr Williams where he admitted his guilt in the Misconduct and where he explained the part played by Mr Richards and Mr Brennan in fabricating the wound or blood injury, as well as disclosing full details of the steps taken by those involved to cover up what had happened in the period following the match, the Committee upheld the appeal and reduced the sanction to a suspension of four (4) months up-to and including 19 November 2009.
Dean Richards: Following the introduction of the new evidence by Mr Williams and an admission of guilt by Dean Richards, the Committee allowed the ERC appeal and found that Mr Richards was guilty of Misconduct in that he organised the fabrication of a wound or blood injury. Mr Richards acknowledged that he had orchestrated the subsequent cover up of the incident.
The Committee imposed a suspension of three (3) years on Mr Richards from participating in any capacity in ERC tournaments and will be requesting that other tournaments and Governing Bodies give effect to this suspension in their tournaments.
Steph Brennan: Following the introduction of the new evidence by Mr Williams and an admission of guilt by Steph Brennan, the Committee allowed the appeal and found that Mr Brennan was guilty of Misconduct in that he participated in the fabrication of a wound or blood injury. Mr Brennan acknowledged that he had been actively involved in the subsequent cover up of the incident.
The Committee imposed a suspension of two (2) years on Mr Brennan from participating in any capacity in ERC tournaments and will be requesting that other tournaments and Governing Bodies give effect to this suspension in their tournaments.
During the course of the hearing it was disclosed that there had been four previous occasions in non ERC tournaments in which Mr Richards and Mr Brennan had fabricated a wound or blood injury. Details of these incidents will be passed on to the relevant tournaments organiser.
The Club (Harlequins): The Committee found that the club were vicariously liable for the actions of its employees and that the level of Misconduct by its employees was of a greater magnitude than had been established in the original hearing based on the new evidence from Mr Williams and upheld the ERC appeal and increased the fine imposed on the Club to 300,000 Euro, which it must pay in full by 1 December 2009.
Dr Wendy Chapman: The Appeal Committee dismissed the ERCs Disciplinary Officer's appeal on grounds that the Appeal Committee lacked jurisdiction under the Disciplinary Rules in this particular case.
Notes
Independent Appeal Committee:
a) Following the decision(s) of an independent Disciplinary Committee all parties (the Club, player(s), individuals and ERC) have the right to appeal the decision(s) of the Committee.
b) The independent Appeal Committee is chosen by the Chairman of the independent Disciplinary Panel Professor Lorne Crerar.
c) None of the members of the independent Disciplinary Committee who issued the decisions being challenged in the appeal(s) may sit on the independent Appeal Committee.
d) The full written decision(s) for the original independent Disciplinary Hearing and the Appeal Hearing will be made available on ercrugby.com/disciplinenews at a later date when the full written decision(s) of the Appeal hearing have been completed and issued to all parties.
Shower of cheating bastards - 4 previous times and the doc got off on a technicality. Would love to see them thrown out. what would have happened if Evans had gotten that drop goal???
The ERC have made a recovery of sorts after literally being forced to pursue this case by the outcry after the original farcical disciplinary procedure.
Nothing sweeter than seeing cynical cheats get their comeuppance in public.
Have Harlequins escaped being thrown out of the HC?
Quote from: Main Street on August 18, 2009, 11:59:34 AM
The ERC have made a recovery of sorts after literally being forced to pursue this case by the outcry after the original farcical disciplinary procedure.
Nothing sweeter than seeing cynical cheats get their comeuppance in public.
Have Harlequins escaped being thrown out of the HC?
It looks like it at the moment >:(
I'd throw them out of the HC.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 18, 2009, 10:48:59 AM
Title changed.
Have absolute no sympathy for Richards, once a cheat always a cheat, integrity is very important and by cheating in the professional game you are cheating fellow professionals and denying them opportunity to make money in what is a very short career. Williams suspension reduction is right as he was just the patsy.
While i agree with all of that Dinny was there not noises that it was common enough practice for this carry on? Im nearly sure i read about lads getting cut on purpose late on in games? Didnt one of the commentators say during the lfirst ions game that Vickery should have been cut early on and subbed? iS it just a case of Rugby finally stamping this out once and for all or did i just hear things?
Quote from: ludermor on August 19, 2009, 08:50:45 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 18, 2009, 10:48:59 AM
Title changed.
Have absolute no sympathy for Richards, once a cheat always a cheat, integrity is very important and by cheating in the professional game you are cheating fellow professionals and denying them opportunity to make money in what is a very short career. Williams suspension reduction is right as he was just the patsy.
While i agree with all of that Dinny was there not noises that it was common enough practice for this carry on? Im nearly sure i read about lads getting cut on purpose late on in games? Didnt one of the commentators say during the lfirst ions game that Vickery should have been cut early on and subbed? iS it just a case of Rugby finally stamping this out once and for all or did i just hear things?
Not hearing things but their are a few differences which makes this case not worse but one they couldn't ignore. Most times a team will be out of subs and will "create" a blood injury to get a player on to replace a tired player for a few minutes and it wouldn't be so tactical
1) The wink
2) The use of fake blood
3) The attempted cover up
There were questions over this blood sub by Leicester in their HC semi final, as the journalist dryly observed with his description
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/may/03/leicester-cardiff-blues-heineken-crane (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/may/03/leicester-cardiff-blues-heineken-crane)
"The tournament's first penalty shoot-out beckoned as Leicester manoeuvred the replaced scrum-half Julien Dupuy back on, the centre Dan Hipkiss having specks of blood in his hair, and the Blues brought on the former Wales fly-half Ceri Sweeney"
Williams claimed Quins pressure to limit appeal
Tom Williams claimed he was offered a new four-year contract plus benefits by Harlequins in return for a limited appeal solely against the length of his 12-month ban incurred after the 'Bloodgate' scandal. He told an ERC appeals committee last week that chief executive Mark Evans warned him against a full disclosure and chairman Charles Jillings asked him to focus "on the sanction and not the findings of fact".
Williams was initially handed a 12-month ban - reduced to four months after appeal - for chewing a fake blood capsule during the April 12th game against Leinster in the Heineken Cup.
Following the initial ban, Williams said Evans told him the club could face expulsion from the Heineken Cup if he proceeded with a full disclosure appeal.
Williams said he had initially accepted the offer of a new contract - and even admitted demanding even more from the club - but ultimately decided to tell all during last Monday's hearing.
Williams's testimony, which was disclosed today, led to director of rugby Dean Richards being banned from coaching for three years and physio Steph Brennan being handed a two-year suspension, while the club were fined just under €297,000.
The appeals committee decided they did not have any jurisdiction in the case of club doctor Wendy Chapman, although Williams told the committee in his evidence that she had deliberately cut his mouth in order to cover up the offence.
The 25-year-old's testimony was made public when European Rugby Cup published the full written decision of the appeals committee, which convened for almost 14 hours in Glasgow a week and a half ago.
It exposes the degree of pressure Williams felt he was under from the likes of Richards, Evans and Jillings to not reveal the full details behind the series of events.
The wing explained he had met Jillings on the morning of August 5th, around two weeks after deciding to appeal his 12-month ban.
Williams said: "He started by apologising to me for the position I had been placed in. I am sure he was sincere.
"Charles then laid out a compensation offer to me. This consisted of payment of my salary while I was suspended, an assurance that I would be selected for the team on merit once my suspension ended, a two-year contract extension, a testimonial, a three-year employment opportunity with the club after I retired from playing, and an assurance that he would take a direct interest in my post-rugby career.
"He asked me what I was planning to do in relation to an appeal.
"Charles told me that he thought I should appeal, but that it should be on a limited basis focusing on the sanction and not the findings of fact.
"Charles said that if the ERC decided to convene a personal hearing and questions were asked of me that might incriminate other parties, I could simply refuse to answer those questions."
Williams revealed he had gone back to Quins demanding an apology, a contract extension on improved terms and that the club pay off the mortgage on his house.
He said Quins made a counter-offer which included an apology, a new-four year contract and extra holidays.
During his testimony, Williams detailed a conversation he said he had with Evans in which the chief executive tried to convince him not to tell the truth to the appeals committee.
"In that meeting, Mark was very friendly but outlined the consequences of my appealing on a full-disclosure basis," Williams said.
"He told me this route could result in the club being expelled from the Heineken Cup, they would lose sponsors, that Wendy and Steph could be struck off for life and would in turn sue the club. He said it would be worse than relegation. I assumed he was speaking in a financial sense."
Williams also claimed his team-mates had encouraged him not to tell the whole truth, while he said he and Chapman had initially decided to say he had cut his own lip in order to protect her.
He insisted Chapman had been placed in an "extremely hostile and tense environment" when he arrived in the physio room having faked injury to allow specialist kicker Nick Evans to return to the field.
Williams revealed the pressure he felt he was under to lie before July's original disciplinary hearing.
Explaining he was asked to sign a statement to back up the club's version of events, he said: "The way in which Dean presented it to me made it very clear that I had no real choice in the matter, and that I was expected to sign the club's statement and to toe the club's line."
Although Richards denied in the hearing that the player had no choice, Williams insisted in his testimony he had never felt able to challenge Richards' authority.
He claimed the Leinster game was the first time he had been asked to fake a blood injury and that he had no prior knowledge of blood capsules being used in that way.
Richards and Brennan have admitted employing the tactic on previous occasions.
Williams said he felt under pressure to comply to Richards's wishes, adding: "If I had refused to bite the capsule, Dean would have seen that I had disobeyed him and might refuse to play me again. This could have spelt the end of my career at Harlequins.
"And how would I face my team-mates if my refusal to come off was blamed by Dean for losing us the game?"
Quins chief Evans today declined to comment on Williams's testimony, saying he had yet to read the appeals committee's full written judgement.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/my_club/gloucester/8247788.stm
Gloucester set for financial loss
Ken Nottage has been at Gloucester since 1999
Gloucester Rugby is set to show a loss for last season, managing director Ken Nottage has revealed.
The news is a contrast to the 2007-08 season when Gloucester were the only Premiership club to make a profit.
Nottage told BBC Gloucestershire: "We are technically still in a recession and the areas that were hit most were attendances and the corporate market.
"At best the year to May 31 will be a break even position, but it's more likely to be a small loss."
During 2007-08 the opening of the club's new main stand increased capacity by more than a third, helping Gloucester to make a profit of about £650,000.
But last season they were knocked out of the Heineken Cup in the pool stages and Nottage said that had a significant impact.
"Had we progressed as we hoped to, that small loss would have been a small profit" he said.
Nottage also admitted the club would not look to develop the Shed side of the ground until attendances improved.
Sunday's clash with Bath attracted a crowd of just under 13,000 - more than 3,000 short of Kingsholm's capacity.
"We need to be seeing six or seven sell-outs a season before there is a demand to develop further," added Nottage.
"Arguably, it's down to the fans. When the demand is demonstrated, we'll be ready to develop the stadium."
Not one of the clubs in the premiership will break even this yea, how the f**k can they sustain that?? Do they all have backers that pump money into the clubs?
Does anyone know how the irish provinces fair out these days?
Well that was a brutal week-end for Irish rugby. 3 sides all well beaten by French oppostion. The root of all three's problems lie in the scrum, we're producing good back 5 players but our front row players just aren't good enough and the provinces are left in a catch 22 position to compete now they need to import foreign talent which has a knock-on with the national team. Scotland and Australia had this same problem but after three years of pain they now both have excellent front rows so much that I make the Aussies favs for the World Cup.
We need short term pain for long term gain but as the IRFU are smashed I can't see this happening to the detriment of the game as they waste another 300K on a South African or Kiwi prop.
I'm definitely not an expert on the scrum but these days there seems to be too much emphasis placed on a prop being good in the loose almost leading to neglecting his ability in the scrum. Without parity in the set piece then you are gonna come unstuck at some stage. I'm a fan of Cian Healy but all the talk I hear of him is what a fantastic rugby player he is in terms of his hands, work in the loose etc. Look at Julian White at Leciester - he doesnt offer much away from the set piece but by God does he make sure he holds his end of the scrum up and more. Its maybe time coaching got back to the basics and work on technique at scrum time. Heard yesterday that the Leinster pack was actually heavier than the Toulouse pack which actually proves that scrum is mainly down to technical ability. Maybe the losses this weekend will be a blessing in disguise in many ways in that it will show the IRFU that forking out the big money for international players is not helping the front row situation. Thats my 2 pennies worth anyway probably talking a whole load of crap!!
I only saw the Munster game, where the lineouts were as poor as the scrums.
Does a scrum creak under an onslought of muscle or is there a more than a bit of technique involved?
At 1/2 time I thought Munster were looking solid but Biarritz thoroughly deserved to power clear in the 2nd half, with or without Warwick's wanderlust. A Munster of old would never have stood down in that game. The old fire has faded and sad to see them getting mauled around the pitch, but all in context of some 10 or 12 great years at the top in European rugby.
Isn't it about time that semi finals be in a neutral place?
I can't think of another European competition where such an advantage is handed on a plate to a semi finalist.
A technically good tight-head will always have the edge on an equally technical loose-head because he is by nature generally heavier, 20 stone coming down on your neck is still 20 stone. Tight-head is one of the best paid positions in Europpean Rugby hence the likes of Carl Haymens, CJVL and Botha etc all plying their trade over here. Healy is probably 8 years from his prime, his scrummaging this year has been poor but he will learn from it.
I think what stood out this weekend was how lacklustre some of the longer established Irish internationals were. The likes of BOD, Darcy, Horgan, ROG, Wallace, DOC, Hayes and Horan all underperformed. These guys have been on the go since 2000 and it's going to be hard for them to reach the heights they were hitting three or four years ago. Although we didn't land the slam thanks to Vincent Clerc - I still think the best rugby I ever seen from an Irish team came during that 06-07 season. The reluctance of Eddie O'Sullivan to broaden the national squad and blood new players will come back to haunt us in the coming years. In fairness to BOD, ROG, DOC and Wallace today though, they all haven't had a proper break in about a year and a half because of their involvement with the Lions last summer. I fear for us Down Under in the summer because I think most of our main players need a proper break from the game for a few months.
The front-row is a massive problem area and all the provinces are culpable. For years they've all used stop gap imports instead of encouraging young Irish talent - Pucciarello, Stan Wright, Will Green, Robbie Kempson, Ollie Le Roux, Van Der Linde, Robbie Morris, Rod Moore, BJ Botha, Brugnaut, Gordon McIlwham. The likes of Peter Bracken and Mike Ross were starting for Wasps and Harlequins but they were deemed surplus to requirements over here. Tony Buckley has all the physical attributes but no one ever got a hold of him and coached him proper technique - I always think he'd have taken over from the Bull long ago if he his move to Bath hadn't fallen through. Darragh Hurley looked useful when he got a run of games a few years ago but he seems to have fallen completely off the radar since - why wasn't he shipped to Connacht for a few years along with Cronin to get some gametime? Healy is talented but he has to be given time to develop. Hopefully Timmy Ryan will come through at Toulon but apart from those few, our options look very thin on the ground.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 02, 2010, 08:02:53 PM
A technically good tight-head will always have the edge on an equally technical loose-head because he is by nature generally heavier, 20 stone coming down on your neck is still 20 stone. Tight-head is one of the best paid positions in Europpean Rugby hence the likes of Carl Haymens, CJVL and Botha etc all plying their trade over here. Healy is probably 8 years from his prime, his scrummaging this year has been poor but he will learn from it.
Leinster rugby team spend far too much time out and about. Thats 50% of their problem. and its no bullshit. I've seen some who shall remain nameless on the razzle 4 days before an important game.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 02, 2010, 08:19:11 PM
I think what stood out this weekend was how lacklustre some of the longer established Irish internationals were. The likes of BOD, Darcy, Horgan, ROG, Wallace, DOC, Hayes and Horan all underperformed. These guys have been on the go since 2000 and it's going to be hard for them to reach the heights they were hitting three or four years ago. Although we didn't land the slam thanks to Vincent Clerc - I still think the best rugby I ever seen from an Irish team came during that 06-07 season. The reluctance of Eddie O'Sullivan to broaden the national squad and blood new players will come back to haunt us in the coming years. In fairness to BOD, ROG, DOC and Wallace today though, they all haven't had a proper break in about a year and a half because of their involvement with the Lions last summer. I fear for us Down Under in the summer because I think most of our main players need a proper break from the game for a few months.
The front-row is a massive problem area and all the provinces are culpable. For years they've all used stop gap imports instead of encouraging young Irish talent - Pucciarello, Stan Wright, Will Green, Robbie Kempson, Ollie Le Roux, Van Der Linde, Robbie Morris, Rod Moore, BJ Botha, Brugnaut, Gordon McIlwham. The likes of Peter Bracken and Mike Ross were starting for Wasps and Harlequins but they were deemed surplus to requirements over here. Tony Buckley has all the physical attributes but no one ever got a hold of him and coached him proper technique - I always think he'd have taken over from the Bull long ago if he his move to Bath hadn't fallen through. Darragh Hurley looked useful when he got a run of games a few years ago but he seems to have fallen completely off the radar since - why wasn't he shipped to Connacht for a few years along with Cronin to get some gametime? Healy is talented but he has to be given time to develop. Hopefully Timmy Ryan will come through at Toulon but apart from those few, our options look very thin on the ground.
Hurlley got a serious eye injury DH won't be back till next season .Lucky he didn't lose it.
The best young prop is Hagan at Connacht. But he needs coaching now.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 03, 2010, 12:34:28 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 02, 2010, 08:02:53 PM
A technically good tight-head will always have the edge on an equally technical loose-head because he is by nature generally heavier, 20 stone coming down on your neck is still 20 stone. Tight-head is one of the best paid positions in Europpean Rugby hence the likes of Carl Haymens, CJVL and Botha etc all plying their trade over here. Healy is probably 8 years from his prime, his scrummaging this year has been poor but he will learn from it.
Leinster rugby team spend far too much time out and about. Thats 50% of their problem. and its no bullshit. I've seen some who shall remain nameless on the razzle 4 days before an important game.
Absolute nonsense....
Sure ladyboys don't drink ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: Celt_Man on May 03, 2010, 12:40:43 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 03, 2010, 12:34:28 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 02, 2010, 08:02:53 PM
A technically good tight-head will always have the edge on an equally technical loose-head because he is by nature generally heavier, 20 stone coming down on your neck is still 20 stone. Tight-head is one of the best paid positions in Europpean Rugby hence the likes of Carl Haymens, CJVL and Botha etc all plying their trade over here. Healy is probably 8 years from his prime, his scrummaging this year has been poor but he will learn from it.
Leinster rugby team spend far too much time out and about. Thats 50% of their problem. and its no bullshit. I've seen some who shall remain nameless on the razzle 4 days before an important game.
Absolute nonsense....
Sure ladyboys don't drink ::) ::) ::)
;D ;D. Unfortunately some of them are near professionals at it.
But we know you are an attention seeking spoofer, prone to gossip on an internet discussion board.
The thing I noticed about the scrum was that the refs would not allow any messing around. This meant the stronger scrummaging side was simply allowed to drive forward all day. This killed the Irish teams at the weekend. Munsters lineout also failed badly and they really missed O'Connell on a number of levels.
Quote from: Main Street on May 03, 2010, 10:51:03 AM
But we know you are an attention seeking spoofer, prone to gossip on an internet discussion board.
Bit difficult to gossip when they are sitting down skulling pints 2 feet away from you 4 days before a big game. I don't suffer from snow blindness and I don't gossip. I leave gossip to Monaghan people. By the way you'll find it under G in the dictionary.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 03, 2010, 11:37:04 AM
The thing I noticed about the scrum was that the refs would not allow any messing around. This meant the stronger scrummaging side was simply allowed to drive forward all day. This killed the Irish teams at the weekend. Munsters lineout also failed badly and they really missed O'Connell on a number of levels.
Munster current team are finsihed Pat. Simple as. They face a huge rebuilding job now. Some of the older lads have about 18months left but thats it. Leinster have a far better academy and far more players coming through and will rebuild a lot quicker than Munster. The dearth of scrummaging options underlines the small playing base. But when you can't beat Scotland you can't do much at any level or expect gto do much at HEC level.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 03, 2010, 02:12:29 PM
Bit difficult to gossip when they are sitting down skulling pints 2 feet away from you 4 days before a big game. I don't suffer from snow blindness and I don't gossip.
- you'll find it under G in the dictionary.
Gossipcasual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details that are not confirmed as being true - chiefly derogatory.
While of course Ireland does have a problem on the front row, to blame the two H Cup defeats on the scrum is a fierce over simplification. Toulouse and Biarritz both have very good front rows, it can't have been a surprise to anyone that they won the scrum battle in the two games.
I was at the Leinster game. Tremendous atmosphere. Personally I think there is very little between Toulouse and Leinster. On their day I believe Toulouse are the best team in Europe and that Leinster are the second best. IMO Leinster lost because they made too many mistakes. Kearney missing touch with a penalty was a serious error and punished with a try moments later. Leinster missed more important tackles than Toulouse (far more critical to the end result than the scrum) and Leinster had more handling errors and knock-ons. Toulouse were very good, very disciplined and gave nothing easy to Leinster. You have to take your hat off to them.
The scrum was more important in the Munster-Biarritz game, because when you add no scrum to no lineout it means no ball. Biarritz are a limited side, but they certainly did their stuff in the second half. If Munster had any ball they would have walked through them, but they couldnt get it unfortunately. A real pity as I think Munster would give Toulouse a better game in the final, but either way Toulouse will be champs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8685351.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8685351.stm)
Rob Howley is the only Welshman in an all-time great Heineken Cup side chosen to mark 15 years of the competition.
The ex-scrum-half, now Wales' attack coach, scored 12 tries in 38 Heineken games and won both the Challenge Cup (2003) and Heineken (2004) with Wasps.
Players from five nations and six clubs were selected by a nine-man European Rugby Cup panel of former players, coaches and members of the media.
Wales flanker Martyn Williams was given the ERC Fair Play Award.
"It was widely felt that Williams is the embodiment of the player who upholds the values of the game of rugby in these European club competitions and in so doing is an inspirational role model as to how the game should be played," said an ERC statement.
Toulouse's Guy Noves was unanimously hailed as the best European coach of the last 15 years.
The ERC selection panel comprised Sir Ian McGeechan, Lawrence Dallaglio, Ieuan Evans, Fabien Galthie, Donal Lenihan, Michael Lynagh, Stuart Barnes, Stephen Jones and Jacques Verdier.
ERC European Dream Team: Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers); Josh Lewsey (London Wasps), Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster), Yannick Jauzion (Toulouse), Vincent Clerc (Toulouse); Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Rob Howley (London Wasps); Christian Califano (Toulouse), William Servat (Toulouse), Sylvain Marconnet (Stade Français Paris), Martin Johnson (Leicester Tigers), Fabien Pelous (Toulouse), Rocky Elsom (Leinster), David Wallace (Munster), Anthony Foley (Munster).
5 Irish is a good return since only one judge was Irish. Foley deserves his place but while he was a very good number 8 I think Heaslip will set the standard for the position in the same way Keith Wood and Brian O'Driscoll did for 2 and 13.
O'Gara was also named as the best player of this era in the Heineken Cup.
Sky Sports are running 3 No. hour long shows tonight, tomorrow and Wed celebrating 15 years of the H Cup, taking 5 years per programme. Meant to post this earlier cause the first one is over. This would have contained Ulster's win in 99. Will probably repeated in the morning for those with Sky Plus
Quote from: muppet on May 16, 2010, 10:39:24 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8685351.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8685351.stm)
Rob Howley is the only Welshman in an all-time great Heineken Cup side chosen to mark 15 years of the competition.
The ex-scrum-half, now Wales' attack coach, scored 12 tries in 38 Heineken games and won both the Challenge Cup (2003) and Heineken (2004) with Wasps.
Players from five nations and six clubs were selected by a nine-man European Rugby Cup panel of former players, coaches and members of the media.
Wales flanker Martyn Williams was given the ERC Fair Play Award.
"It was widely felt that Williams is the embodiment of the player who upholds the values of the game of rugby in these European club competitions and in so doing is an inspirational role model as to how the game should be played," said an ERC statement.
Toulouse's Guy Noves was unanimously hailed as the best European coach of the last 15 years.
The ERC selection panel comprised Sir Ian McGeechan, Lawrence Dallaglio, Ieuan Evans, Fabien Galthie, Donal Lenihan, Michael Lynagh, Stuart Barnes, Stephen Jones and Jacques Verdier.
ERC European Dream Team: Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers); Josh Lewsey (London Wasps), Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster), Yannick Jauzion (Toulouse), Vincent Clerc (Toulouse); Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Rob Howley (London Wasps); Christian Califano (Toulouse), William Servat (Toulouse), Sylvain Marconnet (Stade Français Paris), Martin Johnson (Leicester Tigers), Fabien Pelous (Toulouse), Rocky Elsom (Leinster), David Wallace (Munster), Anthony Foley (Munster).
5 Irish is a good return since only one judge was Irish. Foley deserves his place but while he was a very good number 8 I think Heaslip will set the standard for the position in the same way Keith Wood and Brian O'Driscoll did for 2 and 13.
I dont think Rocky Elsom deserves to be in there on the basis of one great season with Leinster! Dallaglio should be in that team ahead of him IMO based on the past 15 years and the fact that he was instrumental in Wasps winning 2 HC's during this period.
Good point about Dallaglio, but he maybe wasnt allowed to select himself. I thought elsom was a strange choice alright
Tough draws for Munster and Leinster, not as bad for Ulster but still tough:
POOL 1: Cardiff Blues, Northampton Saints, Edinburgh, Castres Olympique
POOL 2: Leinster, ASM Clermont Auvergne, Saracens, Racing Metro 92
POOL 3: Munster, Ospreys, London Irish, RC Toulon
POOL 4: Biarritz Olympique Pays Basque, Bath Rugby, Ulster, Aironi Rugby
POOL 5: Leicester Tigers, Scarlets, Perpignan, Benetton Treviso
POOL 6: Toulouse, London Wasps, Glasgow Warriors, Newport Gwent Dragons
I have tickets bought for Cardiff 2011, my 3rd H Cup final experience, and Munster (08) and Leinster (09) were victorious. Would love to see at least one, or both in next years final, but that draw is tough.
My early group winners predictions re :
1. Northampton
2. Clermont
3. Munster
4. Biarritz
5. Leicester
6. Toulouse.
Possible alternatives are Cardiff in 1 and Bath in 4.
Some great games in prospect, roll on October, December and January !!
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 08, 2010, 01:16:59 PM
I have tickets bought for Cardiff 2011, my 3rd H Cup final experience, and Munster (08) and Leinster (09) were victorious. Would love to see at least one, or both in next years final, but that draw is tough.
My early group winners predictions re :
1. Northampton
2. Clermont
3. Munster
4. Biarritz
5. Leicester
6. Toulouse.
Possible alternatives are Cardiff in 1 and Bath in 4.
Some great games in prospect, roll on October, December and January !!
Might see you there again. Ulster's turn this time.
Tough group for Munster, but they are made for a group like that. They will finsih top and nobody else will qualify from it.
Leinster get Clermont again, Clermont have just won the French league and will be hungry for European glory next year. Ulster will be competing for second place behind Biarritz or they should be.
To be honest none of the Irish teams got a handy draw.
It doesn't matter who is there, will be a great weekend anyway. Is that another date :D
Hoof Hearted, as a matter of interest where did you get your tickets for the H Cup final from? How much were they? Have been to Cardiff a few times for rugby matches and it is a great weekend away and would seriously consider going to the final in 2011.
On ticketmaster tyroneboi. They can be bought from the Monday after the final each year.
Reasonable price too. i got the £65 ones. There is cheaper though.
http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/Heineken-Cup-tickets/artist/932881
Big win for Munster today, absolutely destroyed Toulon. After being 7 nil down inside 2 minutes, they dominated the rest of the game and won 45-18. Toulon are a good side too. Paul O'Connell still has to come back as well.
Great attacking rugby, really went at Toulon, even if frenchies don't travel well it was still a serious result after getting the late point last week. 5 points to Ospreys 4 over the next two matches should see them thru. All the doom & gloom surrounding them has been v premature.
Another great result for Leinster, really motoring since the munster match.
Good win for Connacht but really fucked up badly in Italy last week, talk is though that Elwood has targeted the magners & finishing in the top 3 Irish teams, here's hoping
Toulon made 12 changes from last week, calculated gamble, Ospreys will win that group....
Toulon make changes, apparently that's what Toulon do - rotate their players week in week out.
According to a French rugby journalist, the team against Munster contained more experienced top 14 players.
Great to see Munster in flow, showing some glimpses of their old prowess. Top class entertainment for the couch potato.
Munster in action @ the minute, 5-6 against the Ospreys, Leinster playing in Clermont after this. Ulster had a good win yesterday. Aironi beating last years runners up Biarritz yesterday was some shock
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on December 12, 2010, 01:18:41 PM
Munster in action @ the minute, 5-6 against the Ospreys, Leinster playing in Clermont after this. Ulster had a good win yesterday. Aironi beating last years runners up Biarritz yesterday was some shock
Some finish to the Munster game.
Quote from: mc_grens on December 12, 2010, 02:47:56 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on December 12, 2010, 01:18:41 PM
Munster in action @ the minute, 5-6 against the Ospreys, Leinster playing in Clermont after this. Ulster had a good win yesterday. Aironi beating last years runners up Biarritz yesterday was some shock
Some finish to the Munster game.
very poor standard. Hopefully the next game will provide more entertainment
Munster stepped up in the second half and did what they had to do.
O'Connell got sent off so won't play next week. It probably cost them a bonus point or two as well.
Leinster lost 20-13, what happened in that game?
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 12, 2010, 05:27:40 PM
Munster stepped up in the second half and did what they had to do.
O'Connell got sent off so won't play next week. It probably cost them a bonus point or two as well.
Leinster lost 20-13, what happened in that game?
leinster did very well considering the injuries. 10 each at the break. Clermont had a little more power. O Malley and mc fadden had great games along with O Brien. Heaslip went off injured at 50mins. So leinster did very well.
Much better game then the first one. I cant see Munster being at the business end of this. Semi finals at best
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 12, 2010, 05:27:40 PM
Munster stepped up in the second half and did what they had to do.
O'Connell got sent off so won't play next week. It probably cost them a bonus point or two as well.
Leinster lost 20-13, what happened in that game?
Leinster game was brilliant....Great attacking, good defending and Leinster with a massive injury list held on for the bonus point....
If this game didn't prove to Declan Kidney that having a strong scrum is a good idea and that Mike Ross is the best tighthead in Ireland then serious queries have to be raised
Quote from: INDIANA on December 12, 2010, 05:42:53 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 12, 2010, 05:27:40 PM
Munster stepped up in the second half and did what they had to do.
O'Connell got sent off so won't play next week. It probably cost them a bonus point or two as well.
Leinster lost 20-13, what happened in that game?
leinster did very well considering the injuries. 10 each at the break. Clermont had a little more power. O Malley and mc fadden had great games along with O Brien. Heaslip went off injured at 50mins. So leinster did very well.
Much better game then the first one. I cant see Munster being at the business end of this. Semi finals at best
Maybe I'm being pedantic Pat here but surely the Semi Finals would be considered the "business end"?
Quote from: mc_grens on December 12, 2010, 06:04:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 12, 2010, 05:42:53 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 12, 2010, 05:27:40 PM
Munster stepped up in the second half and did what they had to do.
O'Connell got sent off so won't play next week. It probably cost them a bonus point or two as well.
Leinster lost 20-13, what happened in that game?
leinster did very well considering the injuries. 10 each at the break. Clermont had a little more power. O Malley and mc fadden had great games along with O Brien. Heaslip went off injured at 50mins. So leinster did very well.
Much better game then the first one. I cant see Munster being at the business end of this. Semi finals at best
Maybe I'm being pedantic Pat here but surely the Semi Finals would be considered the "business end"?
Yep I would surely
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on December 12, 2010, 05:43:18 PM
If this game didn't prove to Declan Kidney that having a strong scrum is a good idea and that Mike Ross is the best tighthead in Ireland then serious queries have to be raised
As far as I can make out, I'd agree with that...
Interesting point made in last week's Sunday Indo... Kidney bemoaning the fact that Ross (and a few others) can't get more playing time with their provinces, meanwhile Ross is involved in the 4/5 week Ireland camp doesn't get a minute or even make the bench and misses out on 3 or 4 Leinster games in the same time... Doesn't make a lick of sense really
Did anybody catch Brendan Venters interview yesterday. I have to say he was very gracious in defeat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgchHlaSQE
Was at the Ulster-Bath game yesterday. Entertaining rather than good rugby and Ulster just about deserved it. Stephen Ferris is a monster- two men hanging off him at one stage and he was still moving forward. The thought of him and KK in midfield for Down would put the fear of God into all ! Pienarr just doesn't convince me and is supposed to be on big money. However, with Biarritz losing yesterday, next week's game at the Rec is a massive test- a win will set up the home game against Biarritz as a winner takes all.
Quote from: tyroneboi on December 12, 2010, 08:39:26 PM
Did anybody catch Brendan Venters interview yesterday. I have to say he was very gracious in defeat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgchHlaSQE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgchHlaSQE)
That was brilliant - nearly as good as Brian Cody.
Quote from: tyroneboi on December 12, 2010, 08:39:26 PM
Did anybody catch Brendan Venters interview yesterday. I have to say he was very gracious in defeat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgchHlaSQE
Yea meant to throw it up earlier, it was fecking priceless!!!
By the by, perhaps the biggest shock in Heineken Cup history... Aironi beating last year's runners up Biarritz
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/biarritz-stunned-by-aironi-2457867.html
Paul O'Connell got out of jail.....early with a 4 week ban, means he just misses one heineken cup game.
Racing - Sarries is a joke!! Can't even see the ball wouldnt like to be stuck in the middle of that!
Big win for Ulster at the Rec without Ferris.Slow but steady progress. Nevin Spence is one for the future- I remember seeing him play for Ballynahinch Under 16s 4 years ago and he had that bit of star quality. A potential long-term replacement for BOD ?
Quote from: Dubh driocht on December 18, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
Big win for Ulster at the Rec without Ferris.Slow but steady progress. Nevin Spence is one for the future- I remember seeing him play for Ballynahinch Under 16s 4 years ago and he had that bit of star quality. A potential long-term replacement for BOD ?
Great win for the Ulster men. Massive game coming up now against Biarritz.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ulster to beat Biarritz only to mess things up against Aironi! Great win today all the same. If only Piennar would do more of that break he made in the last 5 mins then he would justify his wages.
I thought bath would have cleaned Ulster
Quote from: Orior on December 18, 2010, 08:12:35 PM
I thought bath would have cleaned Ulster
Stop Raven you Rec.
Quote from: Orior on December 18, 2010, 08:12:35 PM
I thought bath would have cleaned Ulster
Always fancied Ulster to beat that shower. ;)
Three cheers for Sireli Bombo.
Quote from: tyroneboi on December 18, 2010, 07:03:26 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Ulster to beat Biarritz only to mess things up against Aironi! Great win today all the same. If only Piennar would do more of that break he made in the last 5 mins then he would justify his wages.
What sort of money is he on ?
Quote from: orangeman on December 18, 2010, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: tyroneboi on December 18, 2010, 07:03:26 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Ulster to beat Biarritz only to mess things up against Aironi! Great win today all the same. If only Piennar would do more of that break he made in the last 5 mins then he would justify his wages.
What sort of money is he on ?
He is on around £250k I have heard from people in round the Ulster branch whereas guys like Humphreys and Henry are in round the £70k to £100k mark. The guy is a class act no doubt about it but he is definitely capable of doing so much more. He is on a two year deal which would take him to the end of the 2011/2012 season but with a world cup in that time it will be interesting to see how much he plays during that season.
Im for the final again in May. the last 2 finals i have been at have seen Munster (2008) and Leinster 2009) wins. would love to see an Ulster win in 2011 would take any Irish win. as long as it's not an all French final i don't mind
Saracens are on a stag after today's game and are playing like they're already on it.
Poor intensity but even allowing for that Sean O'Brien is a beast. Poor Fitzy having a mare, shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish Squad at the moment.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 15, 2011, 03:02:16 PM
Poor Fitzy having a mare, shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish Squad at the moment.
Worrying with Geordan Murphy ruled out of the 6N. Who'll play full-back?
QuoteWorrying with Geordan Murphy ruled out of the 6N. Who'll play full-back?
Ellistown's finest else Tommy Bowe, Shane Horgans form is worthy of a recall.
Good win for the ulster men today, although with Biarritz getting a bonus point, they should still be favourites.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 15, 2011, 05:40:48 PM
Good win for the ulster men today, although with Biarritz getting a bonus point, they should still be favourites.
How does that leave Ulster now, Hoof. If they win their last game are they not thru?
Quote from: leaveherinsir on January 15, 2011, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 15, 2011, 05:40:48 PM
Good win for the ulster men today, although with Biarritz getting a bonus point, they should still be favourites.
How does that leave Ulster now, Hoof. If they win their last game are they not thru?
level with Biarritz, they have to get a bonus point win in aironi and hope Biarritz dont get a bonus point win against Bath. If they get 5 points each, it comes down to head to head, which stands at 1 win each, then its scores, which Biarritz are ahead, i think thats it anyway
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 15, 2011, 05:30:14 PM
QuoteWorrying with Geordan Murphy ruled out of the 6N. Who'll play full-back?
Ellistown's finest else Tommy Bowe, Shane Horgans form is worthy of a recall.
Ken Donnelly is still recovering from the knee injury Dinny or maybe you mean Aindriú MacLochlainn? ;D
Surely not Pádraig Mullarkey - never looked comfortable at full-back and could hardly be considered an Ellistown man these days!
What's the craic with Felix Jones. Is he still out injured?
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 15, 2011, 06:01:44 PM
Quote from: leaveherinsir on January 15, 2011, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 15, 2011, 05:40:48 PM
Good win for the ulster men today, although with Biarritz getting a bonus point, they should still be favourites.
How does that leave Ulster now, Hoof. If they win their last game are they not thru?
level with Biarritz, they have to get a bonus point win in aironi and hope Biarritz dont get a bonus point win against Bath. If they get 5 points each, it comes down to head to head, which stands at 1 win each, then its scores, which Biarritz are ahead, i think thats it anyway
Spot on Hoof.A bonus point win in Aironi will virtually guarantee that at worst they will qualify as one of the best second place teams but if Bath can do anything in Biarritz then Ulster should go through in first place.
Tight game in poor conditions.The Backs are game but there's not a lot of quality.D'Arcy and Paddy Wallace played well and Humphreys had some balls to put away the penalties.Ferris,Tuohy and Court were like bulls but Rory Best looked in a lot of pain with a rib injury.Biarritz were the best team I've seen at Ravenhill this year and I don't understand how they lost in Italy,
All down to the wire next week.
Munster fecked.
Munster will be back, their academy was a mess but McGahan has restructured it however it will be a few years before it really produces.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 16, 2011, 08:10:06 PM
Munster will be back, their academy was a mess but McGahan has restructured it however it will be a few years before it really produces.
are they out ? Can they not qualify as a runner up ?
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 16, 2011, 10:22:12 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 16, 2011, 08:10:06 PM
Munster will be back, their academy was a mess but McGahan has restructured it however it will be a few years before it really produces.
are they out ? Can they not qualify as a runner up ?
Only the best two runners-up qualify and Munster are well out of the reckoning. The next 3 best runners-up qualify for the Amlin Cup, so if they beat LIrish, they should get one of those spots.
Any kind of win for Ulster in Aironi will guarantee a quarter-final place, so they don't have to worry about the bonus point (albiet it would be nice if it came along of course)
I know this relates more to six nations but ir is based on H Cup form. Leinster are top of their group and playing great stuff.
Munster have been poor overall and O'Connell is only back so is under pressure to get game time. Although I must admit in terms of real knowledge I have to wonder how O'Callaghan is an automatic choice for Ireland and the 3rd choice Muntser second row is also getting caps in O'Driscoll.
Have I missed something or is Leo Cullen not gettin screwed if he doesn't start in the 6 Nations. Jesus like he captained Leicester and was left out. Surely he has to be first choice or have I been asleep and has he retired from Irish duty??
also if i was a munster fan is it not a bit worrying as leinster seem to have a serious amount of young lads coming through the ranks who seem good to go and make a step up.
munster are ageing and (although im sure they have lads coming up) don't seem to have such a conveyor belt.
It must have been a very sad day for true rugby aficionados to witness a faltering in the core heartbeat of the real spirit of Irish rugby on Sunday. All the other positive results paled into the background at the sight of the sad truth of a season's efforts was inevitably inflicted against Munster yesterday, like a pre-ordained appointment with the grim reaper. What could a father reply to the despairing cry of "say it ain't so" from his little boy?
Munster don't need any pity, they have had a great run in the Heineken Cup and it had to come to an end eventually. They will be back some day although they do need more young talent to come through. I was surprised to see them not really put up a big fight yesterday, a bad sign?
Received from a Lenister supporter (sung to the tune of the rubberbandits, Horse Outside)
I play in blue for Leinster, they call me Jonny Ten I'm lookin for a chance to beat those Munster boys again I know it won't be easy, it won't come as a gift The loikes of Isa, Drico, Luke & Shags will hafta shift But they aint getting nowhere without lineout scrum & maul The loikes of Leo, Jamie, Cian & Sean to win the ball And when I get that pass from Reds, and see what's in my way I'll drop my shoulder, chorge ahead and this is what I'll say
I'll say...
Fock your Strings & Warwick
I've got Dorce outsoide
Fock your Tuitupou
I've got Dorce outsoide
Fock your Earls & Mafi
I've got Dorce outsoide
When I'm lookin for a try
I've got the Dorce outsoide
He went to school in Clongowes, then at Lansdowne he was great He stepped up to the interpros in 1998 Tackles like a demon, blessed with blinding pace When he got that try at Croker I slagged Ronan to his face!
We've got world class backs, down the OarDeeEsh And our droive for foive showed em all who's best!
So when we get to Thomond, and I'm facing Wian du Preez I'll look that loose-head up and down and give 'im one of these
I'll say...
Fock your Bull & Quinny
I've got Dorce outsoide
Fock your Paul O'Connell
I've got Dorce outsoide
Fock your Fla & Leamy
I've got Dorce outsoide
When I'm lookin for a try
I've got the Dorce outsoide
C'mon Gordon D'Arcy, cross that loine
Let's play those fockers off the pork for yet another toime And if you think my taunting makes me sound a cruel bloke Don't worry; when we all wear green we'll laugh and have a joke Cos if rugby had no banter, it wouldn't be the same Its fans know how to keep control unlike some other games!
And if Munster thinks they own this tune, they don't and here is why - I've just got these four words for them - "The Fields of ATHENRY"???!!!
EVERYBODY...
Fock your Strings & Warwick
I've got Dorce outsoide
Fock your Tuitupou
I've got Dorce outsoide
Fock your Earls & Mafi
I've got Dorce outsoide
When I'm lookin for a try
I've got the Dorce outsoide
He's gonna move inside...
He's gonna cross that line...
He's gonna beat yiz down in Thomond Pearrrrrk (Limerick accent)
QuoteIt must have been a very sad day for true rugby aficionados to witness a faltering in the core heartbeat of the real spirit of Irish rugby on Sunday.
:D
Munster tried to evolve their game and failed, in my opinion this evolution failed because there was too much loyalty shown to the incumbents, no matter how well the squad played the likes of POC, Hayes, ROG, Wallace, Leamy, Quinlan, DOC were always parachuted in and these guys were grounded in the hardnosed aggressive 10 man game that was traditional Munster rugby. Leinster learned a harsh lesson on that black Sunday in 2006, their tippy tappy all dancing rugby was never going to win a HEC, they needed to evolve mentally and physcially, they always had the skill and Leinster are still evolving always looking forward, Munster have paid too much heed to the past. They need a new coach with the balls or else McGahan to grow a set and move on the Liginds or else Munster rugby will just stagnate
This failure is temporary, merely a blip to exaggerate shortcomings. Tradition, class and pioneering spirit is already proven beyond doubt, willingness to evolve is not up for serious question yet. You know the pioneers by the amount of arrows in their backs and shoulders. The failure tag does not stick to Munster rugby.
London Irish mid season collapse completely turned the Munster group on its head ...if they had performed as expected at home against Toulon then it would be all to play for next week. Winning in Touloun was always going to be unlikely . If anything it was in the other two away games where they should have expected more . That said they werent going to win this year and are a good bit short. As a team they have given me some of my best days in sport but all good things cant last forever. Its Leinsters time now . Felipe Contepomi is a flat track bully though.
Not to dance on Munsters grave but this is great news for Connacht, Munser win the Amlin and we're into the Heineken Cup, makes up for the patronising mid season loan rule......well almost.
QuoteFelipe Contepomi is a flat track bully though.
I thought he was excellent on Sunday for Toulon, controlled the game better from 12 than Wilko did at 10 and ripped the ball for a fanastic turnover for the 1st try unless you mean he was picking on poor speed bump again
(http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/images/galleries/Felipe-Ronan.jpg)
Maybe 'speed bump' could show him his medals and he'd leave him alone? Seriously Dinny, you need to get off O'Gara's case. What has the man done to you? And he's been a great servant to Munster and Ireland.
Concentrate on trying to get Jonny no class to sign a new deal with Leinster.
Nothing I find it amusing that Munster fans take a pop at the good Doc at every opportunity yet defend Ronan O'Gara, they just need to realise that both are assholes on the pitch.
Bit hypcritical to have a pop at me about my O'Gara bashing and in the same breath accusing Sexton of having no class. Sexton is trying to get the best deal for himself, I must have imagined all those O'Gara to the Miami Dolphins, O'Gara going to France stories.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2011, 02:31:03 PM
Nothing I find it amusing that Munster fans take a pop at the good Doc at every opportunity yet defend Ronan O'Gara, they just need to realise that both are assholes on the pitch.
Bit hypcritical to have a pop at me about my O'Gara bashing and in the same breath accusing Sexton of having no class. Sexton is trying to get the best deal for himself, I must have imagined all those O'Gara to the Miami Dolphins, O'Gara going to France stories.
Sexton having no class has nothing to do with him looking for a good deal. I don't like Sexton since he deliberately kicked Mafi in the head in Thomond Park a couple of years ago, and then taunted O'Gara after D'Arcy's try in Croker. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
As for El Doc, he's the one who should have got the bin on Sunday, third man in. Also, the only semi bright spark on a pretty sick day was when Leamy grabbed him by the lugs and pulled him off O'Gara.
It's Leinster's to lose. (see what I did there? ) :)
There's something seriously lame about rugby-fans' bitching - very amusing though, but I can't really explain why!
What do you want us to do? Behave like some of the kids on the Liverpool and Utd threads?
This is an A to B conversation so C your way out of it Boots....
So you don't like Sexton for a couple moments of immature petulance yet gloat over Leamys antics on Sunday. That moment was awful leadership from the Munster Captain and he deserved a yellow card as well as Contepomi.
If I took your logic John Hayes must have no class either for did deliberate and dangerous stamp on Cian Healy which he was red carded for or Quinlan for that matter (eye gouge on Cullen). The Leinster players had a hang up over Munster and put a lot of pressure on themselves to perform so those games in isolation take on a life of their own so I tend not to judge players too harshly on their antics in those games else I'd have no one to support on the Irish team.
O'Gara however I think is different, he has never liked competiton for his place and I think when he talks to the media he always comes across as bitter and not likeable. He has served Ireland well and I hope he continues his mentoring of Sexton whose game control is still not at O'Gara's level.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2011, 02:41:08 PM
What do you want us to do? Behave like some of the kids on the Liverpool and Utd threads?
Those clowns are just puerile and infantile - this, ahem, handbags is another kettle of fish altogether. As I say, I'm laughing at it, but can't really say why.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2011, 03:02:23 PM
This is an A to B conversation so C your way out of it Boots....
So you don't like Sexton for a couple moments of immature petulance yet gloat over Leamys antics on Sunday. That moment was awful leadership from the Munster Captain and he deserved a yellow card as well as Contepomi.
Disagree, it was the first and only time anyone decided to stand up in a very insipid display. It was not wise, but at least it demonstrated some sort of thickness. No Munster lad rushed in until Contempomi did, so I was happy to see him getting a thump for sticking his nose in there.
Quote
If I took your logic John Hayes must have no class either for did deliberate and dangerous stamp on Cian Healy which he was red carded for or Quinlan for that matter (eye gouge on Cullen).
Apples and oranges there. Hayes has demonstrated over many years that he is not an habitual sinner. But in that moment he was as bad or worse than sexton, and he apologised for it. Quinny was indefensible against Cullen, and has been many times, but I said the same thing at the time. Sexton has been on the scene two minutes, and in his brief career he has been involved in two incidents that stick in my craw, so apologies if I don't think he's a candidate for sainthood.
Quote
The Leinster players had a hang up over Munster and put a lot of pressure on themselves to perform so those games in isolation take on a life of their own so I tend not to judge players too harshly on their antics in those games else I'd have no one to support on the Irish team.
In general I agree, but most of them it's a belt or a row. Taunting publicly like that leaves a sour taste. If it was just the kick to Mafi, I'd probably just think it was one of those things. The kick and the taunting leaves me thinking he's a bit of knobeen.
Quote
O'Gara however I think is different, he has never liked competiton for his place and I think when he talks to the media he always comes across as bitter and not likeable. He has served Ireland well and I hope he continues his mentoring of Sexton whose game control is still not at O'Gara's level.
O'Gara doesn't do himself any favours when he's interviewed, I'll grant you that, but I think he has more than made up for that in his career in the way he has served his province and his country. He's not the best out half ever, but he is a perfectly serviceable one, and I find the Leinster (particularly) sour grapes against him to be quite annoying. I had thought you were more inclined to be open minded, but some of your comments 'speed bump' remind me of the over excitable Munster fans who call Brian O'Driscoll a lady boy. (Funnily enough they don't do that much any more).
Anyway, we'll hardly fall out over it, but I think the O'Gara bashing has gotten old.
I can't understand how you can defend Leamy's actions, he didn't go in to break it up and be the better man he went in to have a pop at Contepomi, no self control and very very poor leadership.
Sexton is no Saint but apart from those two isolated incidents when else has he behaved inappropiate shall we say. O'Gara wouldn't even shake Mike Philips hand after the recent Ospreys game, I don't know the chap from adam but based on his on-field antics and persona he's just not likeable and comes across as an asshole.
QuoteAnyway, we'll hardly fall out over it, but I think the O'Gara bashing has gotten old.
Never!
I only stick it to O'Gara when I see Leinster bashing or someone trying to claim that OGara should be the Irish 10, the speed bump comment is a just comment that highlights is defensive flaws in a terse way.
Anyhow better move on from this or someone will ask why does an Offaly man support Munster ;)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2011, 04:16:30 PM
I can't understand how you can defend Leamy's actions, he didn't go in to break it up and be the better man he went in to have a pop at Contepomi, no self control and very very poor leadership.
Maybe it's the Offaly in me, but when I see a teammate fighting with another lad, I'll let them off. If I see a third fella running in and jumping on my teammate, then I'm going straight over. That's what Leamy did, so it would be hypocritical of me to castigate him, I'd have done the same.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2011, 04:16:30 PM
O'Gara wouldn't even shake Mike Philips hand after the recent Ospreys game, I don't know the chap from adam but based on his on-field antics and persona he's just not likeable and comes across as an asshole.
I thought he was very gracious as a winner when he was consoling Stephen Jones after the Grand Slam. But maybe it's a kickers' union thing. I suspect O'Gara could cure AIDS and you'd blame him for taking this long :D
Maybe he's a bad loser, but that's not the worst thing in the world, and he's hardly unique in that. I just find that the bitter comments about O'Gara are OTT and very similar to the equally unnecessary comments about O'Driscoll that many Munster fans made. I'd have thought you could recognise the incongrous nature of an Irish Rugby fan taking unseemly delight in highlighting the flaws of one of the most important players of this past generation.
you two would be better off watching some decent rugby as in the zurich premiership rather than the never-quite-made-its and never-will-be's!
;)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 20, 2011, 04:37:49 PM
you two would be better off watching some decent rugby as in the zurich premiership rather than the never-quite-made-its and never-will-be's!
;)
I'd prefer to watch Leinster than Leicester :D
QuoteMaybe he's a bad loser, but that's not the worst thing in the world, and he's hardly unique in that. I just find that the bitter comments about O'Gara are OTT and very similar to the equally unnecessary comments about O'Driscoll that many Munster fans made. I'd have thought you could recognise the incongrous nature of an Irish Rugby fan taking unseemly delight in highlighting the flaws of one of the most important players of this past generation.
I think you need to contextualise here, the thread title is The Heineken Cup we're talking about Munster and Leinster and a very strong rivalary for such a young professional sport and their respective 10s. For me it's all about the Irish team, even though I would support Leinster and am involved at certain levels I am not what you call a fanatic, I have only gone to one game this year (The Munster game :D) so it's country first so when O'Gara puts on the green I am behind him 100%, he might be a c*nt but he's our c*nt. You don't need me to list his qualities it's just that Musnter fans eulogise their players I just like to point out their flaws.
Lynchbhoy, the rugby you like is called shock and awe, use your beasts to hammer the fringe for about 6 phases and then go wide. Has it's merits but very old school and these days very easy to defend against probably explains why the a AP side hasn't won the HC in a while...
well you know I like 'controlled' rugby, but the invention and swahbuckling style of play in the ZPL is light years ahead of the magners league and how the likes of munster play.
remember these are not 'clubs' these are combined clubs that are actually provinces !
th eonly thing stopping the England rugby side from winning 6N is their idiot of a manager.
France also mstly play power pack rugby but can use their superb backs - so its not all mammoths and behemoths pushing each other for the rudimentary requisite amount of phases before playing it wide !
you do the ZPL sides a huge dis-service !
Anyhow I enjoy it more.
Looks like 'we' are stuck in second place again this year and wont get into the ZPL !
Leinster did the double over Saracens, Ulster the double over Bath. The Magners league is a much better standard of rugby because teams aren't handicapped by the spectrum of relegation. The Aviva Premiership as it's called has about 2 teams that I like to watch, Northampton and Quinns.
I thought Richmond were your team.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 20, 2011, 05:32:44 PM
th eonly thing stopping the England rugby side from winning 6N is their idiot of a manager.
You'll see that rectified this year, 6 nations and most probably a grand aka
In the Aviva
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2011, 06:24:26 PM
Leinster did the double over Saracens, Ulster the double over Bath. The Magners league is a much better standard of rugby because teams aren't handicapped by the spectrum of relegation. The Aviva Premiership as it's called has about 2 teams that I like to watch, Northampton and Quinns.
I thought Richmond were your team.
nope I played for the mighty Blues !
Personal pref is watching the real rugby - pack and expansive play - wheras its kick for position in this country - mostly munster though Leinster have spasms where they try to do this but thankfully Sexton isnt a natural exponent of this and Leinster might call time on trying to turn him into one.
this kicking game just gives the ball away to the opposition unless they have a crap lineout. Not too many are as bad as they were, so its a poor tactic and horrible to watch.
Dunno M4S - England have the players but Johnson is the roy keane of rugby management.Great player but inexperienced manager and naive tactically.
Ulster have secured their try bonus, victory as good in the bag, it's all eyes on the Biarritz match, they have 3 tries with 20+ left. 1 more try will be the difference between ulster getting 1st or second
EDIT
Bonus point scored for Biarritz, Ulster cant top the group now
No worries I'd think.
If Ulster were told at the start that they would make it through to the knockout stages then they would have been happy with that. They will certainly give any team a game away from home. Could be a All Ireland quarter final
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2011, 03:02:42 PM
No worries I'd think.
If Ulster were told at the start that they would make it through to the knockout stages then they would have been happy with that. They will certainly give any team a game away from home. Could be a All Ireland quarter final
yes, at the aviva too i think
Munster 0-0 London Irish @ HT !!
Don't see that too often.
Next round,
Leinster Vs Leicester
Ulster Vs Northampton.
I live in Northampton now and I have an Ulster geansaà somewhere. Must dig it out and try work on the accent to wind up the cobblers.
Hoy noy, broyn coy.
Quote from: thejuice on January 23, 2011, 09:23:18 PM
Next round,
Leinster Vs Leicester
Ulster Vs Northampton.
I live in Northampton now and I have an Ulster geansaà somewhere. Must dig it out and try work on the accent to wind up the cobblers.
Hoy noy, broyn coy.
What ground is that at thejuice? MKDons?
tempted to go to the aviva. What's the dates?
9th-10th April
Saints-Ulster game scheduled for Northampton but the Ulster Rugby Fans forum seem to be convinced its on in MK.
The ERC give you a larger share of gate receipts if you move your home quarter final to a larger stadium, The Saints had already committed to playing theirs in MK.
semi draw - Saints/Ulster v Perpignan/ Touloun
Leinster/Leicester v Biarritz / Toulouse
Complete turnaround from last year when the french teams gor home advantage in the semi's.
So much for the great English teams, one team left in the comp!!!
Theres two, Saints and Tigers
Quote from: thejuice on January 23, 2011, 10:41:38 PM
Theres two, Saints and Tigers
Poor show from the Welsh sides, and so much for the French not taking it seriously.
in the midst of Munster's disappointment, it was easy to forget there was another epic failure by the Ospreys in that group. Was there ever a team so much less than the sum of it's parts?
QuoteWas there ever a team so much less than the sum of it's parts?
The All-Blacks in every WC since 1987. Saracens probably the nearest club side.
Sorry Two, but Ulster and Leinster may well come through their games
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 23, 2011, 11:12:33 PM
QuoteWas there ever a team so much less than the sum of it's parts?
The All-Blacks in every WC since 1987. Saracens probably the nearest club side.
Dinny, that was a rhetorical question :D
:-[
Genuine question for you AZ, Munster have tried to progress their style as we've discussed over the last couple of seasons, do you think they should persist or as written in the Sunday Tribune revert back to type. Imho I think they need to move forward but are been held back by their aging pack who seem to refuse to develop their skill set. It can be done the improvement in the skill levels of Sean O'Brien is the perfect example, he had awful hands up to two years ago but looking at him now he's the prototype for a modern back-row player, I'd almost say the complete package..
I don't think it's mutually exclusive. I think you have to evolve, but I don't think you have to sacrifice things like heart and desire. Munster this year have been hitting rucks softer and with less intent, especially in the counter rucking. They don't tackle to turn over people, they are happy to tackle to put them down. Watch O'Driscoll, O'Brien, even fecking Sexton trying to get to their feet and rip the ball. Only Mafi and some of the younger bucks consistently do that for Munster.
To answer your question, I think game management, i.e. the old Munster way, is only sustainable when it's used in certain scenarios like bad weather, protecting a lead, etc etc. I also think it has a part to play in establishing the field position, but when you are up there, you need to be a threat behind the scrum, so I'd persist with the evolution.
However, I'd get rid of Lawrie Fisher, the pack has regressed since he came on the scene, and I'd focus on the scrum, and making sure that the pack get back that agression that you need. If they can't get it back then you need to bring in new guys, to replace the likes of Hayes/Buckley/O'Callaghan and Wallace. Wally is nearly beat.
Funny you mention the ruck, I think Munster are very poor at the breakdown and haven't adapted to the new law variations at all. Munster would hammer you at the breakdown through numbers but these days you have to stay on your feet and if the opposition can get a man over the ball, narrow the gate using a full body ball presentation (dotting the i) it's very hard for the opposition to compete. The best way to slow the ball down is for the tackler to get his feet ignore the ball and just make a nuisance of himself, this is really about work-rate and attitude and I think in this regards the Munster forwards are just too lazy and slow, they really lack dynamic forwards, Wallace is a pale shadow of himself, and having watched him first hand in the Autumn Internationals I was shocked at how his work-rate had declined. Munster up front need an injection of youthful enthusiasm, you cite Fisher as an issue but surely the decline in Munster forward play is just due to old age - Hayes, Quinlan, Wallace, MOD all aged at the same time, POC also missed a year's rugby, they haven't been replaced and there is a distinct lack of competition in the Munster Squad. Munster have not planned for the future and Kidney has to take some of that blame (their representation at under-age level is awful over the last few years) but they are addressing those issues they just need to find a model that suits them.
Munster need to start trusting and putting faith in young players such as Archer, Williams, Zebo and Nagle etc Those guys if they were playing any other province would have had a lot more game time and would be genuine contenders for a HEC start. McGahan is the head coach, he has the players in my opinion to play a high tempo expansive game he needs to marry the Munster aggression and commitment (refuse to say passion ;)) , throw in the young bucks and keep the faith when mistakes are made which will happen. Munster needs to evolve to move forward and Ireland needs a strong Munster.
http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/sport/leinster-move-quarter-final-clash-to-aviva-stadium-490585.html (http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/sport/leinster-move-quarter-final-clash-to-aviva-stadium-490585.html)
Aviva it is
Dates, times and venues confirmed
Leinster get the prime Sat evening slot.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12332_6703198,00.html
not Heineken Cup, but one of it's former greats are playing great stuff at the minute in Brive in the Challenge Cup
EDIT: not anymore
Final score Brive 37- 42 Munster - Great game, play Harlequins @ Thomond in the semi's, O'gara kept taking the 3 pointers om offer when it looked like the game was over. Proved right in the end as Brive came back well
Stade Francais v Clermont Auvergne in the other semi, great line up, it's like another H Cup
Any good links?
http://vurund.net/live.php?id=RUG1723Lei&link=1&matchname=Leinster%20vs%20Leicester%20Tigers
Quote from: maximus on April 09, 2011, 07:12:02 PM
http://vurund.net/live.php?id=RUG1723Lei&link=1&matchname=Leinster%20vs%20Leicester%20Tigers
Legend thanks.
Another inevutable win for Leinster. Not a great game but on to the semis in Croke Park?
Quote from: Capt Pat on April 09, 2011, 08:17:41 PM
Another inevutable win for Leinster. Not a great game but on to the semis in Croke Park?
when will that game be on capt pat ? how tough would it be to get tickets
I see the semi's are down for the Sat/ Sun of the May Bank Holiday Weekend. When would Leinster be playing?
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on April 09, 2011, 08:34:19 PM
I see the semi's are down for the Sat/ Sun of the May Bank Holiday Weekend. When would Leinster be playing?
wont be decided until Monday. If it's Toulouse it will probably be the prime time game at 6.00 Sat evening. No Royal wedding now for BOD :P
Quote from: the Deel Rover on April 09, 2011, 08:23:28 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on April 09, 2011, 08:17:41 PM
Another inevutable win for Leinster. Not a great game but on to the semis in Croke Park?
when will that game be on capt pat ? how tough would it be to get tickets
That will depend on whether the game is on in the Aviva or Croke Park. It will be Croke Park if Ulster wins as they do not want 2 rugby games in the Aviva too close to the uefa cup final.
Quote from: Capt Pat on April 09, 2011, 10:59:34 PM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on April 09, 2011, 08:23:28 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on April 09, 2011, 08:17:41 PM
Another inevutable win for Leinster. Not a great game but on to the semis in Croke Park?
when will that game be on capt pat ? how tough would it be to get tickets
That will depend on whether the game is on in the Aviva or Croke Park. It will be Croke Park if Ulster wins as they do not want 2 rugby games in the Aviva too close to the uefa cup final.
dont know lad, it;s a 2/12 week gap to the Europa League final. I think it could be OK. Cant see Ulster winning tomorrow anyway, although obviously i hope im wrong. Heading to the final in 6 weeks time so an AI final would be brilliant !
Ulster putting it up to Northampton, after losing an early simple try they are leading 13 7 coming to half time
Edit - late pen to northamptopn 13 10 to ulster at half time.
20 13 to northampton. Ulster after missing a sitter .
Fair play to Ulster putting it up to an excellent Northampton team. Humphries showing that he will keep up the tradition of Ireland having 2 top level fly halves he was superb today and will push Sexton coming into the next World Cup in 2015 he was superb today.
Darcy must be gutted Ulster were definitely in for a try that time and who knows what might have happened has they gone over. No doubt Northampton were the better team their scrum was immense and if Lawes keeps up that form he will be one of the stars of the World Cup he was pretty close to having a perfect game he was awesome throughout. Leinster still in with a good shout at this stage though!
Not finishing that try and giving up 2 soft tries cost Ulster today. Their scrum got messed up a bit today by a strong Northampton pack.
Quote from: screenexile on April 10, 2011, 04:41:58 PM
Fair play to Ulster putting it up to an excellent Northampton team. Humphries showing that he will keep up the tradition of Ireland having 2 top level fly halves he was superb today and will push Sexton coming into the next World Cup in 2015 he was superb today.
Darcy must be gutted Ulster were definitely in for a try that time and who knows what might have happened has they gone over. No doubt Northampton were the better team their scrum was immense and if Lawes keeps up that form he will be one of the stars of the World Cup he was pretty close to having a perfect game he was awesome throughout. Leinster still in with a good shout at this stage though!
must be a name thing, Gordon dropped a few like that in Feb and March.
Didn't know where else to put it but anyone catch the Leicester-Northampton game today? More punches landed in that game than in the Haye-Harrison fight a few months back! Ashton did well to stay on his feet after them 3 punches! I can't see that Northampton team beating Leinster next saturday though I think it will be a superb game. In saying that Northampton have a hell of a front row.
Quote from: tyroneboi on May 14, 2011, 06:15:00 PM
Didn't know where else to put it but anyone catch the Leicester-Northampton game today? More punches landed in that game than in the Haye-Harrison fight a few months back! Ashton did well to stay on his feet after them 3 punches! I can't see that Northampton team beating Leinster next saturday though I think it will be a superb game. In saying that Northampton have a hell of a front row.
http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2011/05/manu-tuilagi-likely-to-be-cited-after.html (http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2011/05/manu-tuilagi-likely-to-be-cited-after.html)
Friend of mine has two lower tier tickets for sale for the Final on sunday
pm me if interested?
thanks
Well whats the opinions for Saturday's final. Leinster are going to made big favourites by the english media but i dont believe there are as big as favourites as they will be made out to be.
Taking it line line by line :-
Healy/Strauss/Ross v Tongihoua/Hartley/Mujati - Advantage Nhampton
Hines/Cullen v Day/Lawes - Even
JEnnings/Heaslip/O'Brien v Wood/Wilson/Dowson - Adv Leinster
All square up front.
Reddan/Sexton v Dickson/Myler - Adv Leinster
O'Driscoll/Darcy v Clarke/Downey - Adv Leinster
Fitxgerald/Horgan/Nacewa v Ashton/Diggin/Foden - Adv Northampton
Advantage Leinster. So Leinster to come out on top overall. IMHO obviously, will be interesting to hear your agreements/disagreements
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 19, 2011, 06:27:14 PM
Well whats the opinions for Saturday's final. Leinster are going to made big favourites by the english media but i dont believe there are as big as favourites as they will be made out to be.
Taking it line line by line :-
Healy/Strauss/Ross v Tongihoua/Hartley/Mujati - Advantage Nhampton
Hines/Cullen v Day/Lawes - Even
JEnnings/Heaslip/O'Brien v Wood/Wilson/Dowson - Adv Leinster
All square up front.
Reddan/Sexton v Dickson/Myler - Adv Leinster
O'Driscoll/Darcy v Clarke/Downey - Adv Leinster
Fitxgerald/Horgan/Nacewa v Ashton/Diggin/Foden - Adv Northampton
Advantage Leinster. So Leinster to come out on top overall. IMHO obviously, will be interesting to hear your agreements/disagreements
Wood is injured (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/13442290.stm).
Quote from: AFS on May 19, 2011, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 19, 2011, 06:27:14 PM
Well whats the opinions for Saturday's final. Leinster are going to made big favourites by the english media but i dont believe there are as big as favourites as they will be made out to be.
Taking it line line by line :-
Healy/Strauss/Ross v Tongihoua/Hartley/Mujati - Advantage Nhampton
Hines/Cullen v Day/Lawes - Even
JEnnings/Heaslip/O'Brien v Wood/Wilson/Dowson - Adv Leinster
All square up front.
Reddan/Sexton v Dickson/Myler - Adv Leinster
O'Driscoll/Darcy v Clarke/Downey - Adv Leinster
Fitxgerald/Horgan/Nacewa v Ashton/Diggin/Foden - Adv Northampton
Advantage Leinster. So Leinster to come out on top overall. IMHO obviously, will be interesting to hear your agreements/disagreements
Wood is injured (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/13442290.stm).
definate adv to Leinster in the back row. English prem's player of the season
If Leinster get enough ball they will destroy Northampton. Leinster's tackling and defensive line is normally brilliant, and the lines and speed at which they run their attacks is a cut above anything I've seen, bar a few of the French Teams in their pomp, at club level.
I really cannot see Northampton coming withing 14 points of Leinster, and I hope I'm right.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2011, 06:53:54 PM
If Leinster get enough ball they will destroy Northampton. Leinster's tackling and defensive line is normally brilliant, and the lines and speed at which they run their attacks is a cut above anything I've seen, bar a few of the French Teams in their pomp, at club level.
I really cannot see Northampton coming withing 14 points of Leinster, and I hope I'm right.
that's what im worried about. Northampton pack good at slowing it and front row in particular very strong. It's a final and win at all costs, so i cant see Nhampton allowing Leinster back line to run ragged. I hope they do cause i will stuck in the middle of it. Anyone else going ?
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 19, 2011, 07:00:26 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2011, 06:53:54 PM
If Leinster get enough ball they will destroy Northampton. Leinster's tackling and defensive line is normally brilliant, and the lines and speed at which they run their attacks is a cut above anything I've seen, bar a few of the French Teams in their pomp, at club level.
I really cannot see Northampton coming withing 14 points of Leinster, and I hope I'm right.
that's what im worried about. Northampton pack good at slowing it and front row in particular very strong. It's a final and win at all costs, so i cant see Nhampton allowing Leinster back line to run ragged. I hope they do cause i will stuck in the middle of it. Anyone else going ?
Not this year.
Be good!!
Paddy Power have already paid out on Leinster winning the final!!!
Ah muppet, Who's looking after me this weekend then ?
Look I think Northampton will have the edge in the front 5 but I am listening to Frano say the Northampton Half bacs Dickson and Myler are the worst to contest a Heineken cup final. Who is their number 8? The point is Leinster are miles better at 8,9 &10. How can Leinster lose. Unless it rains cats and dogs......scratch that as they will shut the roof in Cardiff. I suppose Northampton with a good pack and Foden and Ashton if he recovers from the boxing have a chance but it is slim.
It looks like a Leinster win.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 19, 2011, 07:44:57 PM
Look I think Northampton will have the edge in the front 5 but I am listening to Frano say the Northampton Half bacs Dickson and Myler are the worst to contest a Heineken cup final. Who is their number 8? The point is Leinster are miles better at 8,9 &10. How can Leinster lose. Unless it rains cats and dogs......scratch that as they will shut the roof in Cardiff. I suppose Northampton with a good pack and Foden and Ashton if he recovers from the boxing have a chance but it is slim.
It looks like a Leinster win.
Roger Wilson, former Ulster player who obviously wont need extra motivation. Half Backs are average OK. Myler went through a phase at the beginning of 2011 where he was missing pens from everywhere.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 19, 2011, 07:44:28 PM
Ah muppet, Who's looking after me this weekend then ?
The Heineken Cup.
There's a clue in that somewhere.
Quote from: muppet on May 19, 2011, 07:56:26 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 19, 2011, 07:44:28 PM
Ah muppet, Who's looking after me this weekend then ?
The Heineken Cup.
There's a clue in that somewhere.
it was the "Too Much Heineken" Cup in Edinburgh, that's what im afraid off !!
to get to the final, Leinster have beaten the reigning champions, the current, and winners of the 3 out of the last 4 English Prem Champions, the finalists in the last 2 English Prem finals (twice, and possible winners this year) last years French Top 14 champions (twice) and the finalists from this years French Top 14 final. No wonder their actually favourites !
Brian O'Driscoll passed fit for Heineken Cup final
O'Driscoll had to be substituted at half-time at the RDS against Ulster Brian O'Driscoll is named in Leinster's team for the Heineken Cup final against Northampton on Saturday after recovering from a knee injury.
The Irish captain was rated doubtful after sustaining the injury against Ulster last weekend.
O'Driscoll is a part of an unchanged line-up to face the Saints at the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff.
Hooker Richardt Strauss injured a hip in the Ulster game but he has also been passed fit for the decider.
Leinster skipper Leo Cullen, who lines up alongside Scotland's Nathan Hines at second row, is one of six Ireland internationals in a pack which includes Sean O'Brien, who has scored four tries in this year's competition.
O'Driscoll helped Leinster clinch an emotional final triumph over Leicester two years ago and he is hungry for more European success.
"It's a very different mentality now," he said. "By winning it a second time you copper-fasten the fact that you are a quality side."
O'Driscoll turned down an invitation to last month's royal wedding between Prince William and Kate Middleton to concentrate on his preparation for the semi-final against Toulouse.
"As big an honour as it was to be asked, the team ethos comes first," he said.
Leinster: I Nacewa; S Horgan, B O'Driscoll, G D'Arcy, L Fitzgerald; J Sexton, E Reddan; C Healy, R Strauss, M Ross, L Cullen (captain), N Hines, K McLaughlin, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.
Replacements: J Harris-Wright, H Van Der Merwe, S Wright, D Toner, S Jennings, I Boss, I Madigan, F McFadden.
Still 2-1 to Munster in European titles ;) but hopefully the Leinster Ladyboys Lions can equal up the score at the weekend.
O'Driscoll may be fit but he is a lucky boy that it was Ulster they where playing in the semi final and not a Welsh or Scotch team. The punch on Henry would have been a citing from any other team but an Irish one.
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 20, 2011, 02:05:37 PM
O'Driscoll may be fit but he is a lucky boy that it was Ulster they where playing in the semi final and not a Welsh or Scotch team. The punch on Henry would have been a citing from any other team but an Irish one.
Is it not an independent citing commisioner?
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2011, 02:07:15 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 20, 2011, 02:05:37 PM
O'Driscoll may be fit but he is a lucky boy that it was Ulster they where playing in the semi final and not a Welsh or Scotch team. The punch on Henry would have been a citing from any other team but an Irish one.
Is it not an independent citing commisioner?
He is independent of the competing teams but either team can cite an opponent.
Teams can only bring an incident to a citing commisioner's attention, thet cannot cite.
If BOD was cted for that we might as well give up as every game will have a dozen citings. It was no more than a gay slap.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 20, 2011, 02:15:54 PM
Teams can only bring an incident to a citing commisioner's attention, thet cannot cite.
If BOD was cted for that we might as well give up as every game will have a dozen citings. It was no more than a gay slap.
Dinny,
Don't get me wrong I don't want him to miss the final but it was a lot more than a gay slap. He tried to hit him as hard as he could, with a closed fist. Its an exaggeration to say there are a dozen of those punches throw in every match. Plenty of slapping of arms and pushing at the breakdown. If he had connected he could easily have broken his jaw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktG2aOEwNgk
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 20, 2011, 02:30:28 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 20, 2011, 02:15:54 PM
Teams can only bring an incident to a citing commisioner's attention, thet cannot cite.
If BOD was cted for that we might as well give up as every game will have a dozen citings. It was no more than a gay slap.
Dinny,
Dint get me wrong I dint want him to miss the final but it was a lot more than a gay slap. He tried to hit him as hard as he could, with a closed fist. Its an exaggeration to say there are a dozen of those punches throw in every match. Plenty of slapping of arms and pushing at the breakdown. If he had connected he could easily have broken his jaw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktG2aOEwNgk
I wonder will they go for O'Driscolls knee the first chance they get...i'd say so.
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 20, 2011, 02:30:28 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 20, 2011, 02:15:54 PM
Teams can only bring an incident to a citing commisioner's attention, thet cannot cite.
If BOD was cted for that we might as well give up as every game will have a dozen citings. It was no more than a gay slap.
Dinny,
Don't get me wrong I don't want him to miss the final but it was a lot more than a gay slap. He tried to hit him as hard as he could, with a closed fist. Its an exaggeration to say there are a dozen of those punches throw in every match. Plenty of slapping of arms and pushing at the breakdown. If he had connected he could easily have broken his jaw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktG2aOEwNgk
It was not a citing offence, he threw a punch and missed, if the ref saw it, it was a penalty at worst a yellow card. People are losing the run of themselves.
Good luck to Leinster from the impoverished 4th province of Ireland. Every time Leinster or Munster win it remember its money ye are stealing from Connacht that helps ye win it! Anyway, we're used to it.
As for the "punch" - I'd say Amy has given him worse.
If Leinster win don't Connacht then qualify for the Heineken next year which will be great having the 4 Irish temas involved for the 1st time however the transfer policy of the IRFU where they have allowed half the Connacht team to transfer to Leinster for next year could rebound on them if Connacht get tanked in every game.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on May 20, 2011, 05:43:38 PM
If Leinster win don't Connacht then qualify for the Heineken next year which will be great having the 4 Irish temas involved for the 1st time however the transfer policy of the IRFU where they have allowed half the Connacht team to transfer to Leinster for next year could rebound on them if Connacht get tanked in every game.
Do you honestly think they'll give a fcuk? They'd probably be delighted. Sure they were going to "discontinue" Connacht not long ago.
Settling down to watch it now in 3D. Rugby is good on 3D, especially the lineouts.
Best of luck to Leinster, ye shower of f**kers :D I hope ye are coming to Thomond Park next week looking for the double. I am confident ye will be.
Shite Romain Poite is ref?
Game on. Leinster need to be careful here early.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 21, 2011, 05:10:14 PM
Game on. Leinster need to be careful here early.
Redden has had a very poor start.
Lot of nervy mistakes by Leinster so far. Nacewa dropping kicks, Sexton over thumping one and getting it all the way back. Heaslip carrying in one arm and knocking on, etc etc. I still think they just need to settle. 10-3 is nothing. They don't want too many scrums though!
Good few missed tackles as well, which is very unusual for Leinster this past 4 or 5 years.
I was really hoping Northhampton wouldn't get a lead. Leinster forcing it, but 14 men now. Need to score during this. Ross is in serious trouble though.
It might help Leinster if their back row stayed in the scrum.
WTF? Seven man scrum and they lose it against the head? And then missed tackles, by O'Driscoll of all people.
Time for Leinster to gut check here. This is like a pre-breakthrough performance.
The Northampton scrum is well on top but they also look a lot more up for it they are more alive. Leinster were not expecting this.
O Driscolls missed tackle on Foden was disappointing. The first try involved cheating and should have been a penalty to Leinster. However Leinster need to fire things up at half time to get back into this. There is no excuse for playing so poorly.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 21, 2011, 05:56:59 PM
O Driscolls missed tackle on Foden was disappointing. The first try involved cheating and should have been a penalty to Leinster. However Leinster need to fire things up at half time to get back into this. There is no excuse for playing so poorly.
This is the reverse of the Ireland England 6N game. If they fix the scrum they can get back into it but it needs to happen fast or this will be a massacre.
Now that's better.
Whats the half time score ?
Was 22-6 at half time. Now 22-13
Wohhoo
Leinster cheat their way back in.
Game on
Sexton 23 Northampton 22.
Unbelievable turnaround.
What a turnaround. Gutcheck? Check!
23-22 Leinster after 56 mins. Sexton 23 points :)
The new miracle match?
Amazing from Leinster.
They played like drunks in the first half, and now its champagne stuff in the 2nd.
I was going to give up but said I'd give them a few minutes in the second half. I'd have hated to miss this. Incredible.
Quote from: muppet on May 21, 2011, 06:28:46 PM
I was going to give up but said I'd give them a few minutes in the second half. I'd have hated to miss this. Incredible.
did the same, turned it off, and came back in, couldn't believe it
In fairness Foden and Ashton are some men with the ball. But what happened Mike Ross at half time? I can't remember seeing a man so beaten in the scrum come out and reverse it like that.
Great comeback as I expected from this team at half time.
Superb.
Great stuff by Leinster. They got away with a poor display in the first half by proving how much better they were in the second. They were a 20 point + better team, and are the cream of Europe.
brilliant from leinster. what a 2nd half.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 21, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
Great stuff by Leinster. They got away with a poor display in the first half by proving how much better they were in the second. They were a 20 point + better team, and are the cream of Europe.
Feck it Sexton was inspired by Liverpool's comeback.
Bring back O'Gara.
That's why we have coaches, superb half-time turnaround, credit to the coaching staff. Feek obviously had a word with the front row, and Jennings ensured we kept the ball better.
Best 2nd half performance by an Irish team on the international stage ever I'd say.
Awesome ;D
"Ladyboys" no longer, quite simply one of the best teams ever to grace this competition. Well done to all connected. Roll on New Zealand. Poor Stuart barnes :D
That is a game for the dvd collection. To join Munster in 06 and Liverpool in 05.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 21, 2011, 07:13:39 PM
That's why we have coaches, superb half-time turnaround, credit to the coaching staff. Feek obviously had a word with the front row, and Jennings ensured we kept the ball better.
Best 2nd half performance by an Irish team on the international stage ever I'd say.
Awesome ;D
Paul Wallace was explaining how it could be done at half-time but they didn't listen to him.
Don't get the slagging of Barnes either, he is about as pro-Irish as any commentator I've heard.
Quote from: muppet on May 21, 2011, 06:52:50 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 21, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
Great stuff by Leinster. They got away with a poor display in the first half by proving how much better they were in the second. They were a 20 point + better team, and are the cream of Europe.
Feck it Sexton was inspired by Liverpool's comeback.
Bring back O'Gara.
That fecker is Liverpool fan as well, probably explains why they both like kicking long balls..
Quote from: muppet on May 21, 2011, 07:32:31 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 21, 2011, 07:13:39 PM
That's why we have coaches, superb half-time turnaround, credit to the coaching staff. Feek obviously had a word with the front row, and Jennings ensured we kept the ball better.
Best 2nd half performance by an Irish team on the international stage ever I'd say.
Awesome ;D
Paul Wallace was explaining how it could be done at half-time but they didn't listen to him.
Don't get the slagging of Barnes either, he is about as pro-Irish as any commentator I've heard.
I like Barnes too, very generous to the Irish in his praise. He just likes his rugby and will hype the AP a little but Sky are his paymasters so that's his job.
I think Leinster had a plan for the Northampton scrum but just didn't implement in the first half as they were not as a team mentally prepared for Northampton's intensity.
Oh yea, hello Heineken Cup - Meet Connacht!
Quote from: muppet on May 21, 2011, 07:39:20 PM
Oh yea, hello Heineken Cup - Meet Connacht!
Class, was in town watching the game, f**king unreal. Great day to be Irish.
Wonder will Munster give Leinster a guard of honour next week, Irish traditions and all that ;)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 21, 2011, 07:43:25 PM
Wonder will Munster give Leinster a guard of honour next week, Irish traditions and all that ;)
If it's a tradition I'm sure they will. I don't think there's too much bad feeling down here Dinny, we're more worried about our own future at this stage. We had written this one off to Leinster anyway, as they are clearly the class team in Europe at the moment.
Munster will have to raise themselves hugely to even make a game of it next week..
Only joking AZ I was liking the HEC to an AI and the Magners to the National league...
Anyhow, hard to know how Leinster will treat next week, if it's even on their radar.
It will be tight but I'd fancy Munster to win but long-term I think a defeat would be better for Munster..
Oh and Sexton is a Liverpool fan surely you must be feeling some love for him now ;)
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 21, 2011, 07:57:33 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 21, 2011, 07:43:25 PM
Wonder will Munster give Leinster a guard of honour next week, Irish traditions and all that ;)
If it's a tradition I'm sure they will. I don't think there's too much bad feeling down here Dinny, we're more worried about our own future at this stage. We had written this one off to Leinster anyway, as they are clearly the class team in Europe at the moment.
Munster will have to raise themselves hugely to even make a game of it next week..
I always thought Offaly was in Leinster. ???
Great day for Connacht rugby delighted for them. Well done too to Leinster took them a good few years to get up to speed in Europe but they are a great team now. Billy Keane will be even more unbearable to listen to but at least all those summers in Listowel paid off today for Sexton.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 21, 2011, 08:22:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 21, 2011, 07:57:33 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 21, 2011, 07:43:25 PM
Wonder will Munster give Leinster a guard of honour next week, Irish traditions and all that ;)
If it's a tradition I'm sure they will. I don't think there's too much bad feeling down here Dinny, we're more worried about our own future at this stage. We had written this one off to Leinster anyway, as they are clearly the class team in Europe at the moment.
Munster will have to raise themselves hugely to even make a game of it next week..
I always thought Offaly was in Leinster. ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QwbFBOyE2Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QwbFBOyE2Y)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/endafinn/250155_10150256850191660_625721659_8847491_3693163_n.jpg?t=1306007062)
Are you there Dinny? Who's medal is it?
By the way MGHU, if you're truly interested you can search for the multiple posts where I defend my Lunsterism :) Hence Dinny's post.
I wish AZ, used up my passes for last weekend.....
That would be a fellow Lilywhite from Naas...
Thats a nice medal Dinny, well done.
It got very quiet here in Northampton about 6pm and there wasn't a whimper out of the crowd in the second half.
Some second half from Leinster. I think Northamptons big forwards were too fucked after giving their all in the first half. A bit like Rocky's second fight with Clubber Lang.
The floor behind is funny :)
Is he on Twitter or something?
Quote from: thejuice on May 21, 2011, 08:51:02 PM
Thats a nice medal Dinny, well done.
It got very quiet here in Northampton about 6pm and there wasn't a whimper out of the crowd in the second half.
Some second half from Leinster. I think Northamptons big forwards were too fucked after giving their all in the first half. A bit like Rocky's second fight with Clubber Lang.
O'Neils in Liverpool, a group of Saints fans were very vocal in the first half, they said f**k all in the second.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 21, 2011, 08:51:37 PM
The floor behind is funny :)
Is he on Twitter or something?
Na, mate of a mate..
Quote from: thejuice on May 21, 2011, 08:51:02 PM
Thats a nice medal Dinny, well done.
It got very quiet here in Northampton about 6pm and there wasn't a whimper out of the crowd in the second half.
Some second half from Leinster. I think Northamptons big forwards were too fucked after giving their all in the first half. A bit like Rocky's second fight with Clubber Lang.
Prediction for this fight? ............PAIN.....
That was a good comeback, well done Leinster.
Fair play to Leinster. That should put paid to accusations of a soft centre that has been levelled at them for good.
I know Sexton will get the plaudits and rightly so but O'Brien is like the terminator when he gets going,it takes about 4 men to get him stopped.
People were saying over on planet rugby how much leinster will miss O Driscoll when hes gone. However today and other days have shown that this team has a lot more going for it than O Driscoll. Sexton Heaslip and O Brien are huge players for them now as well. O Driscoll was a bit of a liablity today. Leinster didn't have Kearney either and they seem to have more talent coming through.
I can't think of a better half of rugby that I've ever seen and certainly not from an Irish team. Just makes you wonder if we get our act together as an international team what we could do in the World Cup. Some of the play with ball in hand was most un-Irish in terms of speed, precision and tempo and frankly no defence will cope with the game played like that.
Delighted that Connacht now get in. Hope the IRFU make sure we get a decent crack at it.
O'Driscoll is the standard bearer of Irish rugby his mere presence gives his team mates a lift, his drive for perfection raises the standards of those around. He will never be replaced. His greatness will only truly be reflected upon when he does finally hang up the boots. Ireland's greatest ever player, when Will Greenwood mentioned to Sexton that O'Driscoll said Sexton's speech at half time was one of the catalysts for Leinster's come back, tears welled up in his eyes. That's how much O'Driscoll means to those around him. And he's a nice bloke too...
Ok. What about the scrums. One of the teams was clearly doing something wrong in the first half. Either Northampton were doing something illegal or Leinster were not scrummaging with the right technique and or attitude. There was a huge turn around in the performance of the scrums in the second half.
Northampton's forwards were banjaxed, like Tonga'uiha in the second half.
Quote from: thejuice on May 22, 2011, 01:06:41 AM
Northampton's forwards were banjaxed, like Tonga'uiha in the second half.
That was definitely a factor and other factors were
1. Leinster modifying their own scrum
2. It was probably pointed out to the ref at HT that the Saints wing-forwards were breaking their bind and driving in on the Leinster props, very illegal
Brilliant match....well done to both teams....but hearty congratulations to Leinster....have not enjoyed a Saturday evening as much in a long time.....my nerves are shrieking for a pint 8)
just home from Cardiff and all i can say now is....WOW ! Fuckin brilliant.
Leinster, the Heineken Cup champions, will be the first club allocated a Pool for the 2011 / 2012 tournament when the draw for the composition of the six Pools of four clubs each for the 17th tournament takes place at Twickenham Stadium on Tuesday, 7 June 2011
Share Leinster are also top of the ERC European Rankings, which determine the tiers of the clubs who have qualified for European club rugby's premier competition, and are joined in Tier 1 by three other Heineken Cup winners in Toulouse, Munster and Leicester Tigers.
Cardiff Blues and Biarritz Olympique, both former Heineken Cup finalists, complete the top group of six.
Once the Tier 1 clubs have each been allocated a different Pool no club from the same Tier will be drawn in the same Pool and no Pool will have more than one club from the same country with the exception of England, as there are seven English teams.
The draw will launch the countdown to a tournament which will climax at Twickenham Stadium on the weekend of 19 / 20 May, 2012, with the 17th Heineken Cup final.
CLUBS AND TIERS
TIER 1 - Leinster, Toulouse, Munster, Cardiff Blues, Biarritz Olympique, Leicester Tigers
TIER 2 - Northampton Saints, ASM Clermont Auvergne, Ospreys, Bath Rugby, Harlequins, London Irish
TIER 3 - Ulster Rugby, Saracens, Gloucester Rugby, Glasgow Warriors, Scarlets, Edinburgh
TIER 4 - Connacht Rugby, Benetton Treviso, Castres Olympique, Montpellier, Racing Metro 92, Aironi Rugby
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some potential brilliant groups here, Tier 2 has as many good teams as Tier 1. Tier 3 strong too bar the scottish teams. Tier 4 has 2 of the semi finalists of the French Top 14. Some top seeds are going to have a stinker of a group.
Toulouse heading to Galway !!
Defending champions Leinster will face Bath, Glasgow and Montpellier in the pool stages of the 2011/2012 Heineken Cup.
The Irish province beat Northampton 33-22 after an epic comeback to win their second title last month in Cardiff.
Northampton, who were among the second seeds, will play Munster, Scarlets and Castres Olympique.
Three-time winners Toulouse will play Harlequins, Gloucester and competition debutants Connacht.
POOL ONE: Munster, Northampton Saints, Scarlets, Castres Olympique
POOL TWO: Cardiff Blues, London Irish, Edinburgh, Racing Metro 92
POOL THREE: Leinster, Bath Rugby, Glasgow Warriors, Montpellier
POOL FOUR: Leicester, Clermont Auvergne, Ulster, Aironi Rugby
POOL FIVE: Biarritz Olympique, Ospreys, Saracens, Benetton Treviso
POOL SIX: Toulouse, Harlequins, Gloucester Rugby, Connacht Rugby
That should be a decent draw for Leinster. The others were not so lucky. On all known form Leinster will be the only Irish team in the knockout stages next year.
A good draw for Connacht in terms of getting a few full houses in Galway. We havent a notion of qualifying so next best thing is some attractive matches. Toulouse could probably sell out a few times and I would expect good crowds over from both Harlequins and Gloucester. I dont think the actual fixtures are out for another month or so though.
McHale park will be some craic for these games!!
Tough draw for Ulster, but some great matches in prospect too. Already looking forward to seeing CA at Ravenhill!
Going to look about tickets for the Leicester game. Clermont in the past have fielded reserve teams away from home. Leicester got beat at ravenhill the last time they were over i think. It was a sunday match and they had to make their way through Paisley and his men protesting !
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on June 07, 2011, 01:41:30 PM
A good draw for Connacht in terms of getting a few full houses in Galway. We havent a notion of qualifying so next best thing is some attractive matches. Toulouse could probably sell out a few times and I would expect good crowds over from both Harlequins and Gloucester. I dont think the actual fixtures are out for another month or so though.
Reminds me I must renew my season ticket. A good deal in fairness.
• Guaranteed entry to all 11 home matches in the Magners League, including the Inter-Provincial clashes with league winners Munster, Heineken Cup winners Leinster and league semi-finalists Ulster.
• Guaranteed entry to Connacht's 3 home Heineken Cup pool games at The Sportsground.
• Entry to all Pre-Season friendlies at the Sportsground
• Connacht Supporters Scarf and membership of the Supporters Club
• A free pint at all home games in the Magners League and Heineken Cup
is there no other ground they could take it to, try and make a few pound
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 07, 2011, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on June 07, 2011, 01:41:30 PM
A good draw for Connacht in terms of getting a few full houses in Galway. We havent a notion of qualifying so next best thing is some attractive matches. Toulouse could probably sell out a few times and I would expect good crowds over from both Harlequins and Gloucester. I dont think the actual fixtures are out for another month or so though.
Reminds me I must renew my season ticket. A good deal in fairness.
• Guaranteed entry to all 11 home matches in the Magners League, including the Inter-Provincial clashes with league winners Munster, Heineken Cup winners Leinster and league semi-finalists Ulster.
• Guaranteed entry to Connacht's 3 home Heineken Cup pool games at The Sportsground.
• Entry to all Pre-Season friendlies at the Sportsground
• Connacht Supporters Scarf and membership of the Supporters Club
• A free pint at all home games in the Magners League and Heineken Cup
If you are a regular attender and see some of your fellow supporters who keep throwing bottle tops and other rubbish onto the dog track would you kindly ask them to behave themselves.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 07, 2011, 08:47:03 PM
is there no other ground they could take it to, try and make a few pound
The Stoop or Loftus Road? ;)
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 07, 2011, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on June 07, 2011, 01:41:30 PM
A good draw for Connacht in terms of getting a few full houses in Galway. We havent a notion of qualifying so next best thing is some attractive matches. Toulouse could probably sell out a few times and I would expect good crowds over from both Harlequins and Gloucester. I dont think the actual fixtures are out for another month or so though.
Reminds me I must renew my season ticket. A good deal in fairness.
• Guaranteed entry to all 11 home matches in the Magners League, including the Inter-Provincial clashes with league winners Munster, Heineken Cup winners Leinster and league semi-finalists Ulster.
• Guaranteed entry to Connacht's 3 home Heineken Cup pool games at The Sportsground.
• Entry to all Pre-Season friendlies at the Sportsground
• Connacht Supporters Scarf and membership of the Supporters Club
• A free pint at all home games in the Magners League and Heineken Cup
How much is that going to cost?
Quote from: Capt Pat on June 07, 2011, 09:21:19 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 07, 2011, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on June 07, 2011, 01:41:30 PM
A good draw for Connacht in terms of getting a few full houses in Galway. We havent a notion of qualifying so next best thing is some attractive matches. Toulouse could probably sell out a few times and I would expect good crowds over from both Harlequins and Gloucester. I dont think the actual fixtures are out for another month or so though.
Reminds me I must renew my season ticket. A good deal in fairness.
• Guaranteed entry to all 11 home matches in the Magners League, including the Inter-Provincial clashes with league winners Munster, Heineken Cup winners Leinster and league semi-finalists Ulster.
• Guaranteed entry to Connacht's 3 home Heineken Cup pool games at The Sportsground.
• Entry to all Pre-Season friendlies at the Sportsground
• Connacht Supporters Scarf and membership of the Supporters Club
• A free pint at all home games in the Magners League and Heineken Cup
How much is that going to cost?
€200
Good value with the free pints especially.
anyone think Leinster can do a back to back ? Has only been done once, 10 seasons ago thanks to the "Hand of Back", but after that draw, a 1/4 final place is probable, and then after 6 Nations if the hunger is there i wouldnt back against them.
Any whispers of any new signings ?
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 08, 2011, 08:48:04 PM
anyone think Leinster can do a back to back ? Has only been done once, 10 seasons ago thanks to the "Hand of Back", but after that draw, a 1/4 final place is probable, and then after 6 Nations if the hunger is there i wouldnt back against them.
Any whispers of any new signings ?
Yeah they definitely would have lost that game if back hadnt stuck out his hand!!
2013 Final in Dubln
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/14577.php
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 09, 2011, 01:33:42 PM
2013 Final in Dubln
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/14577.php
Great news although considering there are only 6 countries involved in the Heineken Cup, 10 years is a bit long to wait for a final
Quote from: Celt_Man on June 09, 2011, 01:38:26 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 09, 2011, 01:33:42 PM
2013 Final in Dubln
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/14577.php
Great news although considering there are only 6 countries involved in the Heineken Cup, 10 years is a bit long to wait for a final
I'd say Croker would have been a bitteen risky all round.
Saracens to play Heineken Cup tie in Cape Town
Saracens will break new ground by playing their Heineken Cup Round 5 match against Biarritz Olympique in Cape Town on Saturday, January 14th, 2012. Share ERC, organisers of the Heineken Cup, and the IRB have both approved an application by the English champions to play the match in South Africa, further growing the club's brand, sponsor network and supporter base.
The decision means South Africa will become the 10th country to host action from European rugby's premier club tournament, which annually sees 24 elite teams from England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, France and Italy compete for the coveted trophy.
Nigel Wray, Saracens chairman, said: "The world is becoming increasingly smaller and well connected, and, as a club, we are committed to thinking big and creating major events that people want to watch. We look forward to proceeding with these exciting plans, expanding the footprint and commercial value of European rugby."
Two South African-born players, the Leinster duo of Richardt Strauss and Heinke van der Merwe, picked up winners' medals in last season's final against Northampton Saints at the Millennium Stadium.
They took the number of South African-born players to have won the Heineken Cup since the inaugural season in 1995 to 10. The full list is:
Mike Catt (Bath - 1998)
Gary Pagel (Northampton Saints - 2000)
Glen Gelderbloom (Leicester Tigers - 2001, 2002)
Stuart Abbott (London Wasps - 2004)
Trevor Halstead (Munster - 2006)
Shaun Payne (Munster - 2006)
Daan Human (Toulouse - 2005, 2010)
Shaun Sowerby (Toulouse - 2010)
Richardt Strauss (Leinster - 2011)
Heinke van der Merwe (Leinster - 2011)
Saracens have a strong South African connection in their side and have added legendary 2007 World Cup winning Springbok skipper John Smit to their squad for the new season. He will be one of 13 South African-born players in a squad which boasts former Springbok Brendan Venter as Technical Director.
Biarritz Olympique, who have contested two Heineken Cup finals, have two South African-born players in their squad - prop Eduard Coetzee and fellow front row man Albertus Buckle.
Quote from: Celt_Man on October 05, 2011, 11:24:34 AM
Saracens to play Heineken Cup tie in Cape Town
Saracens will break new ground by playing their Heineken Cup Round 5 match against Biarritz Olympique in Cape Town on Saturday, January 14th, 2012. Share ERC, organisers of the Heineken Cup, and the IRB have both approved an application by the English champions to play the match in South Africa, further growing the club's brand, sponsor network and supporter base.
The decision means South Africa will become the 10th country to host action from European rugby's premier club tournament, which annually sees 24 elite teams from England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, France and Italy compete for the coveted trophy.
Nigel Wray, Saracens chairman, said: "The world is becoming increasingly smaller and well connected, and, as a club, we are committed to thinking big and creating major events that people want to watch. We look forward to proceeding with these exciting plans, expanding the footprint and commercial value of European rugby."
Two South African-born players, the Leinster duo of Richardt Strauss and Heinke van der Merwe, picked up winners' medals in last season's final against Northampton Saints at the Millennium Stadium.
They took the number of South African-born players to have won the Heineken Cup since the inaugural season in 1995 to 10. The full list is:
Mike Catt (Bath - 1998)
Gary Pagel (Northampton Saints - 2000)
Glen Gelderbloom (Leicester Tigers - 2001, 2002)
Stuart Abbott (London Wasps - 2004)
Trevor Halstead (Munster - 2006)
Shaun Payne (Munster - 2006)
Daan Human (Toulouse - 2005, 2010)
Shaun Sowerby (Toulouse - 2010)
Richardt Strauss (Leinster - 2011)
Heinke van der Merwe (Leinster - 2011)
Saracens have a strong South African connection in their side and have added legendary 2007 World Cup winning Springbok skipper John Smit to their squad for the new season. He will be one of 13 South African-born players in a squad which boasts former Springbok Brendan Venter as Technical Director.
Biarritz Olympique, who have contested two Heineken Cup finals, have two South African-born players in their squad - prop Eduard Coetzee and fellow front row man Albertus Buckle.
I can't imagine the Super 12 organisers being too happy with that. The HEC is probably the most pushed club competition, and if it starts eating into the Southern Hemisphere market they'll be pissed.
Aye definitely - will the Super 15 be up and running by then?
Nice to see Connaught joining the Big League
Quote from: sans pessimism on October 05, 2011, 11:59:26 AM
Nice to see Connaught joining the Big League
Starts in half an hour - Connacht up first away to English Prem leaders Harlequins
The West's Awake
Come on the disenfranchised 4th province! Ah ballix, the jesters are in.
I thought Connacht were going to play their home games somewhere other than Galway?
Right back in it now
Great display by Connacht so far on their HEC debut.
They don't deserve that
Sickener for Connacht. Late pen denies them the bonus point.
Deserved at least a bonus point. Ref was definitely a hometowner. Quins got some very questionable decisions. Connacht should take heart from their performance though.
From my albeit passing knowledge of rugby it seems to me that refs are dodgy and an underdog will never get an even break. Pity we didn't get at least a bonus point.
Should be a great occasion aganst Toulouse next Saturday at the Sportsground anyway. Hopefully they put in another good display. They'll have too.
Leinster should be ahead at half time only for a stupid breakaway try. Down 13-6
Great to have the Heino back... Much better tournament than the World Cup!
Serious balls to nail that kick!!
Quote from: screenexile on November 12, 2011, 03:14:48 PM
Serious balls to nail that kick!!
Aye unreal especially with the boos nearly deafening!!
Great stones to kick the conversion after missing an easier kick less than 5 minutes before...
Sean Cronin changed the game when he came on. Their most effective player on the day. They really should have won but lacked a bit of direction, maybe they miss ODriscoll a bit.
O Gara drop goal 4 minutes into injury time wins it for Munster. Sensational. Thats twice in one day for the Irish team with last second kicks.
That was some claw back from Munster to nick the 4 points.
Unreal finish. Get out of jail free kicks from both O'Gara and Sexton today!
Great result for Ulster. At half time we were lucky to be still in the match, but second half was much more even. Humphries was having a mare, but still managed to come up with a try. Fair play.
Can't remember ever seeing so may visiting fans at Ravenhill. Clermont fans virtually took over the stand. The match wasn't a sell out, so makes me wonder what the attendance would've been had the French stayed at home.
Stand up for the Ulstermen!
I couldn't make it out on the dodgy stream but Northampton seemed to give O'Gara plenty of time to compose the drop kick.
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2011, 08:08:20 PM
I couldn't make it out on the dodgy stream but Northampton seemed to give O'Gara plenty of time to compose the drop kick.
They didn't really send anyone to run at him even to try and put him off. Granted they were probably fairly shattered by then.
They were probably out on their feet.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 12, 2011, 07:57:35 PM
O Gara drop goal 4 minutes into injury time wins it for Munster. Sensational. Thats twice in one day for the Irish team with last second kicks.
After 41 phases !! the commentators on Sky were having orgasms !
Just a thought on the signifigance of the Munster performance. Northampton are one of the favourites for the Heineken Cup. Munster had just 4 starters off the European Cup winning team of 2008. They seem to be managing the transition to a new team without turning to shit.
They have newer younger players like O Mahony, Ronan, Donacha Ryan, Varley Murray, Barnes, Hurley and Murphy all started tonight. Earls and Felix Jones are young guys who would have played if fit. Are any of them any good or elite? Maybe only murray might be close to a top level player but scrum half might be the most important position on the pitch.
Wallace and Quinlan were not there. Leamy and O Callaghan were droppped to make way for some of these players and Flannery could return to strengthen the playing resources. It is just a good sign that change and progress are being made at the same time with good young Irish players.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on November 12, 2011, 09:37:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2011, 08:08:20 PM
I couldn't make it out on the dodgy stream but Northampton seemed to give O'Gara plenty of time to compose the drop kick.
They didn't really send anyone to run at him even to try and put him off. Granted they were probably fairly shattered by then.
Yeah I just watched it on TG4 and the Northampton players were shattered, hardly had the energy to stand up, never mind close down O'Gara. That was classic Munster. What a finish.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2011, 08:06:49 PM
Great result for Ulster. At half time we were lucky to be still in the match, but second half was much more even. Humphries was having a mare, but still managed to come up with a try. Fair play.
Can't remember ever seeing so may visiting fans at Ravenhill. Clermont fans virtually took over the stand. The match wasn't a sell out, so makes me wonder what the attendance would've been had the French stayed at home.
Stand up for the Ulstermen!
Great win for ulster, i'd like to see them build on last year.
Miles why the apathy?
Recession?? I really think the people in the wee 6 are feeling the pinch more than most, incurring all the prices rises of the global downturn that the south and uk has felt but nowhere near the average take some salary
I will amend 4 starters to 5 starters from the Heineken cup final in 08 in my above piece and one out of seven on the 08 final bench was involved tonight. That is a big turnover in three years.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 12, 2011, 11:22:50 PM
Just a thought on the signifigance of the Munster performance. Northampton are one of the favourites for the Heineken Cup. Munster had just 4 starters off the European Cup winning team of 2008. They seem to be managing the transition to a new team without turning to shit.
They have newer younger players like O Mahony, Ronan, Donacha Ryan, Varley Murray, Barnes, Hurley and Murphy all started tonight. Earls and Felix Jones are young guys who would have played if fit. Are any of them any good or elite? Maybe only murray might be close to a top level player but scrum half might be the most important position on the pitch.
Wallace and Quinlan were not there. Leamy and O Callaghan were droppped to make way for some of these players and Flannery could return to strengthen the playing resources. It is just a good sign that change and progress are being made at the same time with good young Irish players.
Niall Ronan is 29, Donnacha Ryan is 28, Johne Murphy is 27, Denis Hurley is 27, Damien Varley is 28. Hardly young players now are they?
That in a nutshell is Munster's problem, under Declan Kindey they completely neglected their underage development, Connacht have surpassed them on that level. McGahan is turning that around but comes in from awful criticism from those Munster fans who believe that Munster have some sort of sense of self-entitlement up there with the Toulouses and Leicesters of this world. I think he is doing a good job, he has appointed Anthony Foley as forwards coach and now of course the Munster legend Foley is getting all the praise for turning things around up front and is been touted as heir apparent to McGahan's job.
Munster and Leinster showed their European experience to get something out of games they should have lost, The Saints and Montpelier were the better sides, abject refereeing, the last Leinster penalty was never a penalty for example and lack of composure did it in for them.
Ulster I thought were the most impressive province this weekend although I'd say Butch James hates coming to this island at this stage. One player to catch my eye was Eoin Griffin, looked the most impressive Irish 13 this weekend.
Still only the 1st game, lot of rugby to played yet, good to have it back.
Brock James ? Yes he must hate this place. Was it the RDS he shit himself recently ?
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 13, 2011, 09:15:45 AM
Brock James ? Yes he must hate this place. Was it the RDS he shit himself recently ?
Sorry Brock not Butch 'Clothesline' James, yea Brock was the reason Leinster beat Clermont in the quarter-finals last year.
Anyone have a link to the TG4 player highlights? Can only find the first half.
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 13, 2011, 12:05:02 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2011, 08:06:49 PM
Great result for Ulster. At half time we were lucky to be still in the match, but second half was much more even. Humphries was having a mare, but still managed to come up with a try. Fair play.
Can't remember ever seeing so may visiting fans at Ravenhill. Clermont fans virtually took over the stand. The match wasn't a sell out, so makes me wonder what the attendance would've been had the French stayed at home.
Stand up for the Ulstermen!
Great win for ulster, i'd like to see them build on last year.
Miles why the apathy?
Recession?? I really think the people in the wee 6 are feeling the pinch more than most, incurring all the prices rises of the global downturn that the south and uk has felt but nowhere near the average take some salary
Ulster haven't made the greatest of starts this year, so maybe that has something to do with attendances being fairly average so far. Usually though the HC brings people out, especially a game against a team like Clermont. Yet there was no temporary stand behind the posts as there often is to cater for the extra demand for tickets for HC matches, tickets were available to buy at the gate, and there were hundreds of Clermont fans in town. Maybe people are feeling the pinch a bit.
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2011, 11:56:50 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on November 12, 2011, 09:37:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 12, 2011, 08:08:20 PM
I couldn't make it out on the dodgy stream but Northampton seemed to give O'Gara plenty of time to compose the drop kick.
They didn't really send anyone to run at him even to try and put him off. Granted they were probably fairly shattered by then.
Yeah I just watched it on TG4 and the Northampton players were shattered, hardly had the energy to stand up, never mind close down O'Gara. That was classic Munster. What a finish.
saw this last night on tg4 brilliant stuff tbh. i thought northhamption were the better team but they just didnt have the resolve to finish the game
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 13, 2011, 08:56:48 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 12, 2011, 11:22:50 PM
Just a thought on the signifigance of the Munster performance. Northampton are one of the favourites for the Heineken Cup. Munster had just 4 starters off the European Cup winning team of 2008. They seem to be managing the transition to a new team without turning to shit.
They have newer younger players like O Mahony, Ronan, Donacha Ryan, Varley Murray, Barnes, Hurley and Murphy all started tonight. Earls and Felix Jones are young guys who would have played if fit. Are any of them any good or elite? Maybe only murray might be close to a top level player but scrum half might be the most important position on the pitch.
Wallace and Quinlan were not there. Leamy and O Callaghan were droppped to make way for some of these players and Flannery could return to strengthen the playing resources. It is just a good sign that change and progress are being made at the same time with good young Irish players.
Niall Ronan is 29, Donnacha Ryan is 28, Johne Murphy is 27, Denis Hurley is 27, Damien Varley is 28. Hardly young players now are they?
That in a nutshell is Munster's problem, under Declan Kindey they completely neglected their underage development, Connacht have surpassed them on that level. McGahan is turning that around but comes in from awful criticism from those Munster fans who believe that Munster have some sort of sense of self-entitlement up there with the Toulouses and Leicesters of this world. I think he is doing a good job, he has appointed Anthony Foley as forwards coach and now of course the Munster legend Foley is getting all the praise for turning things around up front and is been touted as heir apparent to McGahan's job.
Munster and Leinster showed their European experience to get something out of games they should have lost, The Saints and Montpelier were the better sides, abject refereeing, the last Leinster penalty was never a penalty for example and lack of composure did it in for them.
Ulster I thought were the most impressive province this weekend although I'd say Butch James hates coming to this island at this stage. One player to catch my eye was Eoin Griffin, looked the most impressive Irish 13 this weekend.
Still only the 1st game, lot of rugby to played yet, good to have it back.
They are yougnger generally. It is just for years we were lead to beleive that when Leamy Wallace and Quinlan and Strings adn Flans and O Callaghan were gone Munster would be completely uncompetitive
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 13, 2011, 12:05:02 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2011, 08:06:49 PM
Great result for Ulster. At half time we were lucky to be still in the match, but second half was much more even. Humphries was having a mare, but still managed to come up with a try. Fair play.
Can't remember ever seeing so may visiting fans at Ravenhill. Clermont fans virtually took over the stand. The match wasn't a sell out, so makes me wonder what the attendance would've been had the French stayed at home.
Stand up for the Ulstermen!
It not apathy, its because Rugby has a minority following in the north. The are only a certain number of public school boys to go around so maybe that's why the crowds are down. Has no impact in the wider society, its a very take it or leave it kind of sport for the masses.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 14, 2011, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 13, 2011, 08:56:48 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 12, 2011, 11:22:50 PM
Just a thought on the signifigance of the Munster performance. Northampton are one of the favourites for the Heineken Cup. Munster had just 4 starters off the European Cup winning team of 2008. They seem to be managing the transition to a new team without turning to shit.
They have newer younger players like O Mahony, Ronan, Donacha Ryan, Varley Murray, Barnes, Hurley and Murphy all started tonight. Earls and Felix Jones are young guys who would have played if fit. Are any of them any good or elite? Maybe only murray might be close to a top level player but scrum half might be the most important position on the pitch.
Wallace and Quinlan were not there. Leamy and O Callaghan were droppped to make way for some of these players and Flannery could return to strengthen the playing resources. It is just a good sign that change and progress are being made at the same time with good young Irish players.
Niall Ronan is 29, Donnacha Ryan is 28, Johne Murphy is 27, Denis Hurley is 27, Damien Varley is 28. Hardly young players now are they?
That in a nutshell is Munster's problem, under Declan Kindey they completely neglected their underage development, Connacht have surpassed them on that level. McGahan is turning that around but comes in from awful criticism from those Munster fans who believe that Munster have some sort of sense of self-entitlement up there with the Toulouses and Leicesters of this world. I think he is doing a good job, he has appointed Anthony Foley as forwards coach and now of course the Munster legend Foley is getting all the praise for turning things around up front and is been touted as heir apparent to McGahan's job.
Munster and Leinster showed their European experience to get something out of games they should have lost, The Saints and Montpelier were the better sides, abject refereeing, the last Leinster penalty was never a penalty for example and lack of composure did it in for them.
Ulster I thought were the most impressive province this weekend although I'd say Butch James hates coming to this island at this stage. One player to catch my eye was Eoin Griffin, looked the most impressive Irish 13 this weekend.
Still only the 1st game, lot of rugby to played yet, good to have it back.
They are yougnger generally. It is just for years we were lead to beleive that when Leamy Wallace and Quinlan and Strings adn Flans and O Callaghan were gone Munster would be completely uncompetitive
Sorry but their is no comparison between those group of players and interestingly O'Mahony and Murray who have big futures were developed by McGahan, the others are just solid professionals, Munster will pay a price for not building on their HEC success, it was severely neglected. Just look at the Irish underage teams for the last 4/5 years completely dominated by Leinster and Ulster with a good sprinkling of Connacht talent. The only Munster player you can confidently predict to be in the Irish team in four years is Murray and even will have Luke McGrath (he's a special un') to contend with. I admire your optimism but Munster are not in a good place looking down the short-term road.
But Munster have something special according to Donal Lenihan in D'examiner today. My point is and it applies to the Irish and Leinster rugby teams too. That we had a golden generation who got to the quarterfinals of a world cup twice and failed another time but it just seems to be continuing. It is not really taking a break. It is hard to prove you are a top level player when you are not consistently given a chance in the big games. Eventually for Munster it had to happen and what do you know but the sky didn't fall in on our heads. I know Niall Ronan is no Richie McCaw and Coughlan is no Harinordiquay but Munster have not gone over the edge they are still there at the top level. That is my point.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 14, 2011, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 14, 2011, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 13, 2011, 08:56:48 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 12, 2011, 11:22:50 PM
Just a thought on the signifigance of the Munster performance. Northampton are one of the favourites for the Heineken Cup. Munster had just 4 starters off the European Cup winning team of 2008. They seem to be managing the transition to a new team without turning to shit.
They have newer younger players like O Mahony, Ronan, Donacha Ryan, Varley Murray, Barnes, Hurley and Murphy all started tonight. Earls and Felix Jones are young guys who would have played if fit. Are any of them any good or elite? Maybe only murray might be close to a top level player but scrum half might be the most important position on the pitch.
Wallace and Quinlan were not there. Leamy and O Callaghan were droppped to make way for some of these players and Flannery could return to strengthen the playing resources. It is just a good sign that change and progress are being made at the same time with good young Irish players.
Niall Ronan is 29, Donnacha Ryan is 28, Johne Murphy is 27, Denis Hurley is 27, Damien Varley is 28. Hardly young players now are they?
That in a nutshell is Munster's problem, under Declan Kindey they completely neglected their underage development, Connacht have surpassed them on that level. McGahan is turning that around but comes in from awful criticism from those Munster fans who believe that Munster have some sort of sense of self-entitlement up there with the Toulouses and Leicesters of this world. I think he is doing a good job, he has appointed Anthony Foley as forwards coach and now of course the Munster legend Foley is getting all the praise for turning things around up front and is been touted as heir apparent to McGahan's job.
Munster and Leinster showed their European experience to get something out of games they should have lost, The Saints and Montpelier were the better sides, abject refereeing, the last Leinster penalty was never a penalty for example and lack of composure did it in for them.
Ulster I thought were the most impressive province this weekend although I'd say Butch James hates coming to this island at this stage. One player to catch my eye was Eoin Griffin, looked the most impressive Irish 13 this weekend.
Still only the 1st game, lot of rugby to played yet, good to have it back.
They are yougnger generally. It is just for years we were lead to beleive that when Leamy Wallace and Quinlan and Strings adn Flans and O Callaghan were gone Munster would be completely uncompetitive
Sorry but their is no comparison between those group of players and interestingly O'Mahony and Murray who have big futures were developed by McGahan, the others are just solid professionals, Munster will pay a price for not building on their HEC success, it was severely neglected. Just look at the Irish underage teams for the last 4/5 years completely dominated by Leinster and Ulster with a good sprinkling of Connacht talent. The only Munster player you can confidently predict to be in the Irish team in four years is Murray and even will have Luke McGrath (he's a special un') to contend with. I admire your optimism but Munster are not in a good place looking down the short-term road.
Irish teams fixtures for this week :-
Castres v Munster (Sat)
Connacht v Toulouse (Sat)
Leicester v Ulster (Sat)
Leinster v Glasgow (Sun)
3 very tough away games and a relatively easier game for the champions in Dublin.
Quote from: NAG1 on November 14, 2011, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 13, 2011, 12:05:02 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2011, 08:06:49 PM
Great result for Ulster. At half time we were lucky to be still in the match, but second half was much more even. Humphries was having a mare, but still managed to come up with a try. Fair play.
Can't remember ever seeing so may visiting fans at Ravenhill. Clermont fans virtually took over the stand. The match wasn't a sell out, so makes me wonder what the attendance would've been had the French stayed at home.
Stand up for the Ulstermen!
It not apathy, its because Rugby has a minority following in the north. The are only a certain number of public school boys to go around so maybe that's why the crowds are down. Has no impact in the wider society, its a very take it or leave it kind of sport for the masses.
If you'd said grammar school boys you might've got away with that without making yourself look like a total tit.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 14, 2011, 07:17:40 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 14, 2011, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 13, 2011, 12:05:02 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 12, 2011, 08:06:49 PM
Great result for Ulster. At half time we were lucky to be still in the match, but second half was much more even. Humphries was having a mare, but still managed to come up with a try. Fair play.
Can't remember ever seeing so may visiting fans at Ravenhill. Clermont fans virtually took over the stand. The match wasn't a sell out, so makes me wonder what the attendance would've been had the French stayed at home.
Stand up for the Ulstermen!
It not apathy, its because Rugby has a minority following in the north. The are only a certain number of public school boys to go around so maybe that's why the crowds are down. Has no impact in the wider society, its a very take it or leave it kind of sport for the masses.
If you'd said grammar school boys you might've got away with that without making yourself look like a total tit.
+1
List of public/ independent schools for example in Belfast alone;
BRA
RBAI
Campbell College
Methody
Victoria College
Are you seeing the correlation? Outside of this where is the power base of Ulster Rugby? As I said it has little of no impact outside of this Belfast centric media bubble.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 14, 2011, 04:56:02 PM
But Munster have something special according to Donal Lenihan in D'examiner today. My point is and it applies to the Irish and Leinster rugby teams too. That we had a golden generation who got to the quarterfinals of a world cup twice and failed another time but it just seems to be continuing. It is not really taking a break. It is hard to prove you are a top level player when you are not consistently given a chance in the big games. Eventually for Munster it had to happen and what do you know but the sky didn't fall in on our heads. I know Niall Ronan is no Richie McCaw and Coughlan is no Harinordiquay but Munster have not gone over the edge they are still there at the top level. That is my point.
You do realise that Donal Lenihan is chairman of the Munster Academy, he's hardly going to say anything different. Munster are no longer at the top table and with BOD and Hines I can't see Leinster doing much this year.
Just a question on Connaught, where is the blond speed merchant they used to have on the wing? Was he poached by a bigger team or did he just change his hair colour?
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 15, 2011, 11:51:03 AM
Just a question on Connaught, where is the blond speed merchant they used to have on the wing? Was he poached by a bigger team or did he just change his hair colour?
He parked his car at Leinster reserves.
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 15, 2011, 11:51:03 AM
Just a question on Connaught, where is the blond speed merchant they used to have on the wing? Was he poached by a bigger team or did he just change his hair colour?
He parked his car at Leinster reserves.
Not even in the HC squad along with Hagan I think? Surely the IRFU should have kept them both at Connacht?
Carr should tog out for Ardclough and try to get a place in the Kildare forward line for next summer.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on November 15, 2011, 12:02:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 15, 2011, 11:51:03 AM
Just a question on Connaught, where is the blond speed merchant they used to have on the wing? Was he poached by a bigger team or did he just change his hair colour?
He parked his car at Leinster reserves.
Not even in the HC squad along with Hagan I think? Surely the IRFU should have kept them both at Connacht?
Carr should tog out for Ardclough and try to get a place in the Kildare forward line for next summer.
That situation is a bit of a mess. 2 of our best prospects not getting any meaningful game time that is necessary to improve. I think they left Connach like a bad smell because when they go nowhere near the world cup training squad.
Any additions/ommissons from this little lot from planetrugby.com
Team of Round 1
15 Clément Poitrenaud (Toulouse) - We begin with one of the toughest calls as Poitrenaud and Ben Foden stood out. Foden created the try for Chris Ashton, but for his ability to draw Gloucester defenders and create something from nothing, the Toulouse man gets our nod.
14 Doug Howlett (Munster) - Anyone who thought he and Munster were over the hill were made to eat their words on Saturday. Howlett rolled back the years to prove he still has plenty of juice left in the tank for games to come. His try at the end of the first-half was key.
13 Owen Farrell (Saracens) - He has already had a glowing reference from former Springbok captain John Smit and why shouldn't he. Farrell is growing game by game and showed a great deal in the number thirteen jersey against an improved Treviso outfit. He amassed 22 points in Round One and seems to be thriving outside Charlie Hodgson.
12 James Downey (Northampton) - Another showing that has one scratching his head as to why he is not in the Ireland shake-up. Downey was excellent in Limerick and arguably raised his effort to a new level against his former employers. However, the powerful inside centre will be disappointed that his try ultimately proved fruitless in the result on Saturday.
11 Iain Balshaw (Biarritz) - The only player in the opening Heineken Cup weekend to claim a brace of tries was the former England wing. Balshaw brought Biarritz back from the brink and in fact they can't be downhearted by leaving Liberty Stadium with a losing bonus-point.
10 Ronan O'Gara (Munster) - It was a toss-up between Francois Trinh-Duc, Dan Biggar and Munster's favourite son. O'Gara used all of his knowledge of the Thomond Park pitch as he pushed and probed the hosts around the field and just when Munster needed the ERC Best Player of the last 15 years, O'Gara stood up to knock over a winning drop against the wind.
9 Kahn Fotuali'i (Ospreys) - While Luke Burgess enjoyed an impressive debut for Toulouse, warming Stade Ernest Wallon with his physical approach that was Byron Kelleher-esque, there was a certain Samoan causing a stir in Swansea. Fotuali'i set up the Ospreys' only try and looked good alongside the also impressive Dan Biggar at half-back. Excellent signing.
8 Ernst Joubert (Saracens) - It was tough to only pick one of the Montpellier back-row as Masi Matadigo and Fulgence Ouedraogo put in good shifts together with 'Gorgodzilla'. Gone are the days though of Treviso being a walkover and that is why Joubert gets in the mix.
7 Mamuka Gorgodze (Montpellier) - The Georgian forward was the first name down on the teamsheet after an heroic 80 minutes for Montpol. He started out at number seven and then shifted to eight, keeping Sean O'Brien uncharacteristically quiet at Stade Yves du Manoir.
6 Peter O'Mahony (Munster) - Who? Apparently he is the next big thing at Munster and proved just that in his man-of-the-match performance. The flank, who may not have started if the hosts were injury-free, was tireless in the loose and looks to have a very bright future.
5 Paul Tito (Cardiff Blues) - Emerging from the sidelines for James Down early into their away victory in Paris, former captain Tito was superb at lock, earning high praise from his coaches and team-mates alike. Cardiff Blues have now given themselves every chance.
4 Courtney Lawes (Northampton) - Yet another athletic showing from the England lock as he covered ample ground and made countless tackles, one of which stood out as he tracked across the line to foil an overlap. Saints should not be written off topping this Pool.
3 Taufa'ao Filise (Cardiff Blues) - A try for the tighthead sees him edge out Geoff Cross in this spot. Winning at Racing is no mean feat and the Welsh have done their qualification hopes a power of good, particularly as London Irish fell at home to Edinburgh.
2 Agustin Creevy (Montpellier) - Darren Dawiduik got the better of Gary Botha at Stade Ernest Wallon with an effective yet unflashy showing. However, Montpol's pack deserved more than just the solitary spot and that is why the industrious Argentine forces his way in.
1 Soane Tonga'uiha (Northampton) - Once again we witnessed the immense power of the Saints front-row as Munster found themselves wanting in many a scrum. Alongside Dylan Hartley and Brian Mujati, Tonga'uiha was strong both in the set-piece and around the field.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 15, 2011, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on November 15, 2011, 12:02:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 15, 2011, 11:51:03 AM
Just a question on Connaught, where is the blond speed merchant they used to have on the wing? Was he poached by a bigger team or did he just change his hair colour?
He parked his car at Leinster reserves.
Not even in the HC squad along with Hagan I think? Surely the IRFU should have kept them both at Connacht?
Carr should tog out for Ardclough and try to get a place in the Kildare forward line for next summer.
That situation is a bit of a mess. 2 of our best prospects not getting any meaningful game time that is necessary to improve. I think they left Connach like a bad smell because when they go nowhere near the world cup training squad.
Other than Cronin at Leinster and to a much lesser extent, Keatley at Munster, I cannot see any of the others getting too many opportunities. Jamie Hagan has a lot of potential IMO, but potential it will remain until he gets a decent run in the Leinster side and that doesnt look like happening any time soon. They should have at least stayed with Connacht for another season as all of them were 1st choice players down here and they would be getting massive exposure in the HCup. Right now they are no better off than last year from a playing perspective as it will be just bit part roles in the Rabo.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 15, 2011, 01:34:04 PM
Any additions/ommissons from this little lot from planetrugby.com
Team of Round 1
15 Clément Poitrenaud (Toulouse) - We begin with one of the toughest calls as Poitrenaud and Ben Foden stood out. Foden created the try for Chris Ashton, but for his ability to draw Gloucester defenders and create something from nothing, the Toulouse man gets our nod.
14 Doug Howlett (Munster) - Anyone who thought he and Munster were over the hill were made to eat their words on Saturday. Howlett rolled back the years to prove he still has plenty of juice left in the tank for games to come. His try at the end of the first-half was key.
13 Owen Farrell (Saracens) - He has already had a glowing reference from former Springbok captain John Smit and why shouldn't he. Farrell is growing game by game and showed a great deal in the number thirteen jersey against an improved Treviso outfit. He amassed 22 points in Round One and seems to be thriving outside Charlie Hodgson.
12 James Downey (Northampton) - Another showing that has one scratching his head as to why he is not in the Ireland shake-up. Downey was excellent in Limerick and arguably raised his effort to a new level against his former employers. However, the powerful inside centre will be disappointed that his try ultimately proved fruitless in the result on Saturday.
11 Iain Balshaw (Biarritz) - The only player in the opening Heineken Cup weekend to claim a brace of tries was the former England wing. Balshaw brought Biarritz back from the brink and in fact they can't be downhearted by leaving Liberty Stadium with a losing bonus-point.
10 Ronan O'Gara (Munster) - It was a toss-up between Francois Trinh-Duc, Dan Biggar and Munster's favourite son. O'Gara used all of his knowledge of the Thomond Park pitch as he pushed and probed the hosts around the field and just when Munster needed the ERC Best Player of the last 15 years, O'Gara stood up to knock over a winning drop against the wind.
9 Kahn Fotuali'i (Ospreys) - While Luke Burgess enjoyed an impressive debut for Toulouse, warming Stade Ernest Wallon with his physical approach that was Byron Kelleher-esque, there was a certain Samoan causing a stir in Swansea. Fotuali'i set up the Ospreys' only try and looked good alongside the also impressive Dan Biggar at half-back. Excellent signing.
8 Ernst Joubert (Saracens) - It was tough to only pick one of the Montpellier back-row as Masi Matadigo and Fulgence Ouedraogo put in good shifts together with 'Gorgodzilla'. Gone are the days though of Treviso being a walkover and that is why Joubert gets in the mix.
7 Mamuka Gorgodze (Montpellier) - The Georgian forward was the first name down on the teamsheet after an heroic 80 minutes for Montpol. He started out at number seven and then shifted to eight, keeping Sean O'Brien uncharacteristically quiet at Stade Yves du Manoir.
6 Peter O'Mahony (Munster) - Who? Apparently he is the next big thing at Munster and proved just that in his man-of-the-match performance. The flank, who may not have started if the hosts were injury-free, was tireless in the loose and looks to have a very bright future.
5 Paul Tito (Cardiff Blues) - Emerging from the sidelines for James Down early into their away victory in Paris, former captain Tito was superb at lock, earning high praise from his coaches and team-mates alike. Cardiff Blues have now given themselves every chance.
4 Courtney Lawes (Northampton) - Yet another athletic showing from the England lock as he covered ample ground and made countless tackles, one of which stood out as he tracked across the line to foil an overlap. Saints should not be written off topping this Pool.
3 Taufa'ao Filise (Cardiff Blues) - A try for the tighthead sees him edge out Geoff Cross in this spot. Winning at Racing is no mean feat and the Welsh have done their qualification hopes a power of good, particularly as London Irish fell at home to Edinburgh.
2 Agustin Creevy (Montpellier) - Darren Dawiduik got the better of Gary Botha at Stade Ernest Wallon with an effective yet unflashy showing. However, Montpol's pack deserved more than just the solitary spot and that is why the industrious Argentine forces his way in.
1 Soane Tonga'uiha (Northampton) - Once again we witnessed the immense power of the Saints front-row as Munster found themselves wanting in many a scrum. Alongside Dylan Hartley and Brian Mujati, Tonga'uiha was strong both in the set-piece and around the field.
James Downey is Irish??!! WTF?!! How in God's name did we go to a World Cup with D'arcy and James Downey is Irish... Jesus Wept!
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2011, 01:56:18 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 15, 2011, 01:34:04 PM
Any additions/ommissons from this little lot from planetrugby.com
Team of Round 1
15 Clément Poitrenaud (Toulouse) - We begin with one of the toughest calls as Poitrenaud and Ben Foden stood out. Foden created the try for Chris Ashton, but for his ability to draw Gloucester defenders and create something from nothing, the Toulouse man gets our nod.
14 Doug Howlett (Munster) - Anyone who thought he and Munster were over the hill were made to eat their words on Saturday. Howlett rolled back the years to prove he still has plenty of juice left in the tank for games to come. His try at the end of the first-half was key.
13 Owen Farrell (Saracens) - He has already had a glowing reference from former Springbok captain John Smit and why shouldn't he. Farrell is growing game by game and showed a great deal in the number thirteen jersey against an improved Treviso outfit. He amassed 22 points in Round One and seems to be thriving outside Charlie Hodgson.
12 James Downey (Northampton) - Another showing that has one scratching his head as to why he is not in the Ireland shake-up. Downey was excellent in Limerick and arguably raised his effort to a new level against his former employers. However, the powerful inside centre will be disappointed that his try ultimately proved fruitless in the result on Saturday.
11 Iain Balshaw (Biarritz) - The only player in the opening Heineken Cup weekend to claim a brace of tries was the former England wing. Balshaw brought Biarritz back from the brink and in fact they can't be downhearted by leaving Liberty Stadium with a losing bonus-point.
10 Ronan O'Gara (Munster) - It was a toss-up between Francois Trinh-Duc, Dan Biggar and Munster's favourite son. O'Gara used all of his knowledge of the Thomond Park pitch as he pushed and probed the hosts around the field and just when Munster needed the ERC Best Player of the last 15 years, O'Gara stood up to knock over a winning drop against the wind.
9 Kahn Fotuali'i (Ospreys) - While Luke Burgess enjoyed an impressive debut for Toulouse, warming Stade Ernest Wallon with his physical approach that was Byron Kelleher-esque, there was a certain Samoan causing a stir in Swansea. Fotuali'i set up the Ospreys' only try and looked good alongside the also impressive Dan Biggar at half-back. Excellent signing.
8 Ernst Joubert (Saracens) - It was tough to only pick one of the Montpellier back-row as Masi Matadigo and Fulgence Ouedraogo put in good shifts together with 'Gorgodzilla'. Gone are the days though of Treviso being a walkover and that is why Joubert gets in the mix.
7 Mamuka Gorgodze (Montpellier) - The Georgian forward was the first name down on the teamsheet after an heroic 80 minutes for Montpol. He started out at number seven and then shifted to eight, keeping Sean O'Brien uncharacteristically quiet at Stade Yves du Manoir.
6 Peter O'Mahony (Munster) - Who? Apparently he is the next big thing at Munster and proved just that in his man-of-the-match performance. The flank, who may not have started if the hosts were injury-free, was tireless in the loose and looks to have a very bright future.
5 Paul Tito (Cardiff Blues) - Emerging from the sidelines for James Down early into their away victory in Paris, former captain Tito was superb at lock, earning high praise from his coaches and team-mates alike. Cardiff Blues have now given themselves every chance.
4 Courtney Lawes (Northampton) - Yet another athletic showing from the England lock as he covered ample ground and made countless tackles, one of which stood out as he tracked across the line to foil an overlap. Saints should not be written off topping this Pool.
3 Taufa'ao Filise (Cardiff Blues) - A try for the tighthead sees him edge out Geoff Cross in this spot. Winning at Racing is no mean feat and the Welsh have done their qualification hopes a power of good, particularly as London Irish fell at home to Edinburgh.
2 Agustin Creevy (Montpellier) - Darren Dawiduik got the better of Gary Botha at Stade Ernest Wallon with an effective yet unflashy showing. However, Montpol's pack deserved more than just the solitary spot and that is why the industrious Argentine forces his way in.
1 Soane Tonga'uiha (Northampton) - Once again we witnessed the immense power of the Saints front-row as Munster found themselves wanting in many a scrum. Alongside Dylan Hartley and Brian Mujati, Tonga'uiha was strong both in the set-piece and around the field.
James Downey is Irish??!! WTF?!! How in God's name did we go to a World Cup with D'arcy and James Downey is Irish... Jesus Wept!
Downey was let go by Leinster years ago. In fairness he's mainly just a battering ram. Suits Northampton perfectly though as their scrum is usually dominant so he just runs straight and gets over the gainline. I suspect the Irish coaches don't feel he's international standard although worse have probably picked up caps down through the years and D'Arcy is certainly not too far from the end now.
screen, he is one of the Downey's from Lavey !
Quote from: NAG1 on November 15, 2011, 10:53:37 AM
List of public/ independent schools for example in Belfast alone;
BRA
RBAI
Campbell College
Methody
Victoria College
Are you seeing the correlation? Outside of this where is the power base of Ulster Rugby? As I said it has little of no impact outside of this Belfast centric media bubble.
All of those are grammar schools. That means, you pass an exam at the age of 11 and you can go there, free. Not a 100% sure about Victoria College, but it's a while since any of those girls played for Ulster in any case. So, no public schools then.
Northamptons Heineken Cup hangover continuing, lost at home tonight to Llanelli Scarlets, 1st loss at home in Europe in 4 years. Scarlets looked good all the same, will be a good battle now with Munster in their back to back games in December.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 18, 2011, 09:58:29 PM
Northamptons Heineken Cup hangover continuing, lost at home tonight to Llanelli Scarlets, 1st loss at home in Europe in 4 years. Scarlets looked good all the same, will be a good battle now with Munster in their back to back games in December.
Llanelli got 4 tries from 4 visits to their opponents 22 according to reports. George north also picked up an injury. Talk of him having pulled or torn a groin muscle. That would be a big help for Munster if he missed the next month.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 18, 2011, 11:17:29 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 18, 2011, 09:58:29 PM
Northamptons Heineken Cup hangover continuing, lost at home tonight to Llanelli Scarlets, 1st loss at home in Europe in 4 years. Scarlets looked good all the same, will be a good battle now with Munster in their back to back games in December.
Llanelli got 4 tries from 4 visits to their opponents 22 according to reports. George north also picked up an injury. Talk of him having pulled or torn a groin muscle. That would be a big help for Munster if he missed the next month.
fly half priestland was MOM, keeping Stephen Jones on the bench at club level as well as with Wales. I watched the game live and they were well worth the victory, good side. Jim Mallinder admitted it that he is interested in the England job.
Quote from: Blue and White on November 19, 2011, 02:27:27 PM
Have Connacht much of a chance this evening? Its a disgrace that so many of their players were poached by the other provinces in the summer. Surely it would be better if they were playing this evening instead of bench warming for leinster and munster. Hope my fellow county man Niall o'connor gets a good run out aswell, has looked impressive in the matches i've seen of connacht this season.
depends on what Toulouse turns up. Connacht are looking for the wind and rain, and if thats the case they have a 50/50 chance. Our boys are playing at the same time ;)
O'Gara again at the death.
another brilliant finish from munster. o'gara different class, legend.
The reason players left Connacht was because they were being ignored for national team selections.
O Mahony was top dog for Munster again. The victory was well deserved.
Lack of a losing bonus point for Ulster could prove costly.
Quote from: Blue and White on November 19, 2011, 05:35:05 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 19, 2011, 02:52:12 PM
Quote from: Blue and White on November 19, 2011, 02:27:27 PM
Have Connacht much of a chance this evening? Its a disgrace that so many of their players were poached by the other provinces in the summer. Surely it would be better if they were playing this evening instead of bench warming for leinster and munster. Hope my fellow county man Niall o'connor gets a good run out aswell, has looked impressive in the matches i've seen of connacht this season.
depends on what Toulouse turns up. Connacht are looking for the wind and rain, and if thats the case they have a 50/50 chance. Our boys are playing at the same time ;)
I'll be sure to tune in ;) Is the TJ Anderson named on the bench for connacht Willie Anderson's son? Recall him playing against the tones as an underage player for the loup.
thats him, played in the 2001 feile final for Loup in Ballymaguigan. He was a string of piss then. tall and lanky. Now he is a different animal. Built like a shithouse.
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 19, 2011, 06:17:25 PM
another brilliant finish from munster. o'gara different class, legend.
voted last year as best player of the Heineken cup as last 10/15 years. Not hard to see why !!
different class
Quote from: Myles Na G. on November 19, 2011, 08:10:51 PM
Lack of a losing bonus point for Ulster could prove costly.
a max 10 points is now required from the back to backs against Aironi. If clermont and leicester can take a win each against each other, it will leave ulster top for the new year games. clermont away and Leciester at Ravenhill. Tough but not impossible
Munster eh!
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on November 19, 2011, 02:52:12 PM
Quote from: Blue and White on November 19, 2011, 02:27:27 PM
Have Connacht much of a chance this evening? Its a disgrace that so many of their players were poached by the other provinces in the summer. Surely it would be better if they were playing this evening instead of bench warming for leinster and munster. Hope my fellow county man Niall o'connor gets a good run out aswell, has looked impressive in the matches i've seen of connacht this season.
depends on what Toulouse turns up. Connacht are looking for the wind and rain
Unfortunately it was the calmest dryest night in the Sportsground in ages. Good effort from Connacht but Toulouse were different class. 9,120 in attendance. Was absolutely packed. Maybe 300 or 400 Toulouse fans.
In fairness Toulouse showed Connacht some respect with the side they picked. Had their homework done and knew Connacht would be tough at home, took the early penalties and made Connacht chase the game.
Toulouse just a class act on and off the pitch I hoped they stayed the night and enjoy the city.
O'Gara at the death again.
It's becoming a bit of a pantomime, "watch out, O Gara's going to nail you!"
Quote from: Main Street on November 19, 2011, 10:59:37 PM
O'Gara at the death again.
It's becoming a bit of a pantomime, "watch out, O Gara's going to nail you!"
Were the defenders close enough for his detractors this time? Balls of steel. Different class.
Quote from: Main Street on November 19, 2011, 10:59:37 PM
O'Gara at the death again.
It's becoming a bit of a pantomime, "watch out, O Gara's going to nail you!"
That's kinda Keyser Sauzee-esque-
Rugby players tell their kids at night, "If you don't close the game out son, Ronan O'Gara will come and get you..."
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 20, 2011, 11:36:52 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 19, 2011, 10:59:37 PM
O'Gara at the death again.
It's becoming a bit of a pantomime, "watch out, O Gara's going to nail you!"
Were the defenders close enough for his detractors this time?
You should ask one of his detractors.
Brian who they are saying around the RDS !!
Eoin O'Malley is on a hat trick after half an hour of Leinsters game against Glasgow. 17 points when they were down to 14 men.
24-6, 1 more try for a bonus point
EDIT - Bonus secured, 31-6 @ HT
There's no disguising that Munster are well below the level they set themselves in the mid-late 2000s, but they are still a tough team to beat in Europe. Of all the great things that O'Gara and O'Connell have done for Munster, getting this Munster team two wins in a row is right up there with the best the've done.
There's no doubt that Kidney's success at senior level has masked a deficiency in the Acadamy, which Leinster have accentuated with their success in that area. McGahan's 'failure' at senior level in Europe may likewise be hiding the stirrings of something worthwhile at underage. Murray and O'Mahoney are the marquee players coming through, but Munster need more than that, and they will need them quickly. Danny Barnes doesn't have the pace at this level I believe. Zebo does, but does he have the rugby brain and defensive qualities?
Munster are off the pace of a Leinster, Toulouse and some of the other French teams, but they will try like the bejaysus, and that will give them some good days while they wait to be really a force again. It's almost like back in 1998/99 again. Hopefully this time the structures in place will give more continuity.
There is a deal of quality missing in their game but the power at the finish is "awesome".
if Munster have not already been put away at that stage, there are few teams that could find a hiding place.
Didn't Munster originally develop Mike Ross and Sean Cronin?
They have brought through O Mahony and Murray and if games are won up front and at half back Munster will continue to be strong for some time.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 21, 2011, 02:36:17 AM
Didn't Munster originally develop Mike Ross and Sean Cronin?
They have brought through O Mahony and Murray and if games are won up front and at half back Munster will continue to be strong for some time.
Munster did practically nothing to develop Ross. Cork Con is where he learnt his trade, Munster only gave him one or two starts and pretty much discarded him. It was at Harlequins that he developed into a proper prop.
On the other hand, Munster did want to keep Sean Cronin as back up to Flannery. But Cronin didnt want to be number 2 to Flannery (some tension between the two also), so chose to go to Connacht for first team action.
I like the fact McGahan is being brave and giving youth a chance. Before this season I would have said O'Mahony is twice the player either Coughlan or Leamy is, but will need plenty of game time to prove it. As it happened he proved it almost immediately.
O'Gara's two super drop goals have papered over two mediocre enough performances from himself and the team. But winning two games like that through force of character and being ice cool under intense pressure will definitely bring them on. They'll be two cracking games against the Scarlets in December.
Quote from: Hound on November 21, 2011, 09:15:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 21, 2011, 02:36:17 AM
Didn't Munster originally develop Mike Ross and Sean Cronin?
They have brought through O Mahony and Murray and if games are won up front and at half back Munster will continue to be strong for some time.
Munster did practically nothing to develop Ross. Cork Con is where he learnt his trade, Munster only gave him one or two starts and pretty much discarded him. It was at Harlequins that he developed into a proper prop.
On the other hand, Munster did want to keep Sean Cronin as back up to Flannery. But Cronin didnt want to be number 2 to Flannery (some tension between the two also), so chose to go to Connacht for first team action.
I like the fact McGahan is being brave and giving youth a chance. Before this season I would have said O'Mahony is twice the player either Coughlan or Leamy is, but will need plenty of game time to prove it. As it happened he proved it almost immediately.
O'Gara's two super drop goals have papered over two mediocre enough performances from himself and the team. But winning two games like that through force of character and being ice cool under intense pressure will definitely bring them on. They'll be two cracking games against the Scarlets in December.
Yea Dean Richards should take all the credit for Ross, Munster had nothing to do with his development. Cronin was 3rd choice behind Sheehan and Flannery, tough position in fairness so was right to move to Connacht. He also played minor football for Limerick.
The Munster games against the Scarlets will be interesting, unlike Castres and The Saints, the Scarlets are a very dynamic team who really play a 15 man game with the form 10 in World Rugby as well. You'd expect that if the Scarlets can get any kind of parity up front against Munster they'll win but that's a big if.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 21, 2011, 09:26:21 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 21, 2011, 09:15:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 21, 2011, 02:36:17 AM
Didn't Munster originally develop Mike Ross and Sean Cronin?
They have brought through O Mahony and Murray and if games are won up front and at half back Munster will continue to be strong for some time.
Munster did practically nothing to develop Ross. Cork Con is where he learnt his trade, Munster only gave him one or two starts and pretty much discarded him. It was at Harlequins that he developed into a proper prop.
On the other hand, Munster did want to keep Sean Cronin as back up to Flannery. But Cronin didnt want to be number 2 to Flannery (some tension between the two also), so chose to go to Connacht for first team action.
I like the fact McGahan is being brave and giving youth a chance. Before this season I would have said O'Mahony is twice the player either Coughlan or Leamy is, but will need plenty of game time to prove it. As it happened he proved it almost immediately.
O'Gara's two super drop goals have papered over two mediocre enough performances from himself and the team. But winning two games like that through force of character and being ice cool under intense pressure will definitely bring them on. They'll be two cracking games against the Scarlets in December.
The Munster games against the Scarlets will be interesting, unlike Castres and The Saints, the Scarlets are a very dynamic team who really play a 15 man game with the form 10 in World Rugby as well. You'd expect that if the Scarlets can get any kind of parity up front against Munster they'll win but that's a big if.
It was a great win for the Scarlets at Northampton alright but they scored some of the jammiest tries you'd ever see in one game of rugby. Nearly every one of their tries had an element of luck to it. Just seemed to be a night for them when the ball kept bouncing their way.
I think Northampton are the best team in the group to be honest. I can't believe the way they went down on Friday night. Ashton should be shot for the way he gave up the ghost on the knock on that ended in a try.
LLanelli away will be a huge game for Munster. If they can win there, then I'd be confident they could beat LLanelli and Castres at home and essentially be out of the group by the time they go to Milton Keynes.
A loss to LLanelli will probably see them finishing second at best, as that bonus point win is huge for the Scarlets.
Going to be a humdinger of a group. I'd can envisage after 5 rounds that Munster will be on 18 points, Scarlets on 13 points and the Saints on 15, leaving a winner takes all in Milton Keyes. Bonus points could be massive before then though.
round 3 starts in ten mins, cant wait, should be two good weekends of top class rugby, the back to back's
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 21, 2011, 12:14:37 PM
Going to be a humdinger of a group. I'd can envisage after 5 rounds that Munster will be on 18 points, Scarlets on 13 points and the Saints on 15, leaving a winner takes all in Milton Keyes. Bonus points could be massive before then though.
Munster picked up the win and a couple of key injuries. If they can beat the Scarlets at home in Thomond they should win all 6.
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 10, 2011, 07:07:55 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 21, 2011, 12:14:37 PM
Going to be a humdinger of a group. I'd can envisage after 5 rounds that Munster will be on 18 points, Scarlets on 13 points and the Saints on 15, leaving a winner takes all in Milton Keyes. Bonus points could be massive before then though.
Munster picked up the win and a couple of key injuries. If they can beat the Scarlets at home in Thomond they should win all 6.
Who?
BJ Botha but it might just have been cramp. O Mahony was off at half time I don't know why. It might have been a kick in the mouth.l
Botha would be a miss. Munsters only answer since the demise of Horan/Hayes is to buy a front row.
Munster had a good win today. It looks like they will get out of the group and maybe a home quarter final. Leinster are running away with their group and are likely winners of the competition.
Special mention for Conor O'Shea. . . After the madness of the last few years he has them in good shape and that is some run they are on at the minute. I thought the bubble had burst last week but to go to Toulouse and get a victory like they did is fantastic.
A successor to Kidney already?!!
lads, I have a few tickets got for next weekends game, Munster Vs Saints but lads are looking for more. For some reason Saints are selling only one ticket at a time on their website and you cant get 2 seats together. Its a stupid way of doing things but does anyone know a way of getting 2 or 3 together. We might just have to buy them and hope people are happy to swap seats.
Beyond that, I can't decide should I wear my Meath jersey(Green and Gold) or Atlanta Falcons(Red and White). I'm going along with Munster fans so I'm tempted to wind them up a bit.
Off to Thomond tomorrow for my first Munster match, any chance of Castre seconds putting up a game?
Some start from Ulster.
Uladh 10 - 7 Leicester
The usual jokers are there with the red and yellow ulster flegs
It's on live here for some reason on fox soccer plus, it's great.
Try here http://www.vipbox.tv/ (http://www.vipbox.tv/)
Ulster 10
Leicester 7
http://twitter.com/#!/McIlroyRory
@McIlroyRory Rory Mcilroy
Massive night for @UlsterRugby!! I'm standing up in Dubai for the Ulster Men! #SUFTUM
heres a veetle link as well
http://lsh.lshunter.tv/static/popups/7762502346860.html (http://lsh.lshunter.tv/static/popups/7762502346860.html)
18-7 Ulster at ht
not really sure about the rules and dont have sound, but surely grabbing someone round the neck and dragging them down like that deserved more that a free?
They claimed it was accidental I think.
Ulster look good, going by the commentators this shouldn't be happening.
Sweet chariot ?
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2012, 09:40:24 PM
Sweet chariot ?
sweet mother of god, another try. were Ulster not supposed to win this?
Quote from: Square Ball on January 13, 2012, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2012, 09:40:24 PM
Sweet chariot ?
sweet mother of god, another try. were Ulster not supposed to win this?
A friday night at Ravenhill is supposed to be legendary - in other words they rarely lose, but Leicester are one of the best teams in England !! Shows how the tides have turned in recent years, when the SUPPOSEDLY 3rd best team in Ireland have hammered them !!
Would be some achievement to qualify top from a group with Leicester and Clermont
Right enough, what the f**k is Sweet Chatiot all about.
Commentators maybe a little bias. " terrible night for English rugby"
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 13, 2012, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on January 13, 2012, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2012, 09:40:24 PM
Sweet chariot ?
sweet mother of god, another try. were Ulster not supposed to win this?
A friday night at Ravenhill is supposed to be legendary - in other words they rarely lose, but Leicester are one of the best teams in England !! Shows how the tides have turned in recent years, when the SUPPOSEDLY 3rd best team in Ireland have hammered them !!
Would be some achievement to qualify top from a group with Leicester and Clermont
I am only about 15 minutes walk from it and can hear the roars from the front door but have never been to a match in it.
Quote from: Square Ball on January 13, 2012, 09:49:46 PM
I am only about 15 minutes walk from it and can hear the roars from the front door but have never been to a match in it.
Might just be an angry badger looking in.
Quote from: Square Ball on January 13, 2012, 09:49:46 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 13, 2012, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on January 13, 2012, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2012, 09:40:24 PM
Sweet chariot ?
sweet mother of god, another try. were Ulster not supposed to win this?
A friday night at Ravenhill is supposed to be legendary - in other words they rarely lose, but Leicester are one of the best teams in England !! Shows how the tides have turned in recent years, when the SUPPOSEDLY 3rd best team in Ireland have hammered them !!
Would be some achievement to qualify top from a group with Leicester and Clermont
I am only about 15 minutes walk from it and can hear the roars from the front door but have never been to a match in it.
Well go and make judgement for yourself, I went during the holidays and it was a great night. Good game and Ulster played well. I think they just didn't think Ulster would have played as well in fairness and they were caught on the hop.
The stance by the IRFU with the internationals not playing certain games have paid off
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 13, 2012, 09:40:24 PM
Sweet chariot ?
Heard a story on the wireless this morning about Ulster fans singing this.. When they beat Leicester in 04 (year after England won the WC), Martin Johnson came on as a sub, so the Ulster fans changed the lyrics of Sweet Chariot to "coming for to carry you home!"..
Thought it was a clever one myself!..
Wow! That was some performance from Ulster - Tuohy, Henry, Trimble - put their hands up to Declan Kidney plus Ferris and Best are nailed on to start for Ireland. Irish rugby still riding high...
Quote from: ONeill on January 13, 2012, 09:57:21 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on January 13, 2012, 09:49:46 PM
I am only about 15 minutes walk from it and can hear the roars from the front door but have never been to a match in it.
Might just be an angry badger looking in.
:D
what a result...
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 13, 2012, 10:00:34 PM
Wow! That was some performance from Ulster - Tuohy, Henry, Trimble - put their hands up to Declan Kidney plus Ferris and Best are nailed on to start for Ireland. Irish rugby still riding high...
Id say Cave also put his hand up for what is a problem position.
Henry could be a very good bench option as he can play anywhere across the backrow whereas O Mahony and Jennings cant.
Great result for Ulster but they are always formidable at home and will need to back it up in France next week if they are to move to the next level. A bonus point defeat could see them through, even as a best runners up.
Was at the game and Ulster were up for it from the off, I wasn't sure about Pienaar last year but he has assumed the David Humphreys role to make them tick - Ian Humprhreys was also good but the forwards stole the show- destroyed the famous Leicester front-row-especially Afoa and Mueller as well as what has come to be a regular master-class from Ferris. Could do a job for us at FB atSt Tiernach's Park on Sunday to allow Dan forward,
Swing Low was a piss-take at how far the former English Greats have fallen- without Geordan Murphy they had no balls.
Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 14, 2012, 12:20:52 AM
Was at the game and Ulster were up for it from the off, I wasn't sure about Pienaar last year but he has assumed the David Humphreys role to make them tick - Ian Humprhreys was also good but the forwards stole the show- destroyed the famous Leicester front-row-especially Afoa and Mueller as well as what has come to be a regular master-class from Ferris. Could do a job for us at FB atSt Tiernach's Park on Sunday to allow Dan forward,
Swing Low was a piss-take at how far the former English Greats have fallen- without Geordan Murphy they had no balls.
On a similar note, former Ulster and Ireland great Andy Ward will attend his first GAA match on sunday when he will be part of the Antrim coaching staff at Casement against Tyrone
What does SUFTUM mean?
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 13, 2012, 11:58:52 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 13, 2012, 10:00:34 PM
Wow! That was some performance from Ulster - Tuohy, Henry, Trimble - put their hands up to Declan Kidney plus Ferris and Best are nailed on to start for Ireland. Irish rugby still riding high...
Id say Cave also put his hand up for what is a problem position.
Henry could be a very good bench option as he can play anywhere across the backrow whereas O Mahony and Jennings cant.
Great result for Ulster but they are always formidable at home and will need to back it up in France next week if they are to move to the next level. A bonus point defeat could see them through, even as a best runners up.
Ulster are through a bonus point defeat will see them top the group provided clermont dont score 4 tries
How will the others fair today? Munster at home and Connacht away to Toulouse, They will get some hammering there I'd say
Quote from: oisinog on January 14, 2012, 12:24:39 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 13, 2012, 11:58:52 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 13, 2012, 10:00:34 PM
Wow! That was some performance from Ulster - Tuohy, Henry, Trimble - put their hands up to Declan Kidney plus Ferris and Best are nailed on to start for Ireland. Irish rugby still riding high...
Id say Cave also put his hand up for what is a problem position.
Henry could be a very good bench option as he can play anywhere across the backrow whereas O Mahony and Jennings cant.
Great result for Ulster but they are always formidable at home and will need to back it up in France next week if they are to move to the next level. A bonus point defeat could see them through, even as a best runners up.
Ulster are through a bonus point defeat will see them top the group provided clermont dont score 4 tries
Ulster are on 19, Clermount on 11 with the expected 5 points coming against Aironi today to bring them to 16. Even if Ulster get a losing bonus point and stop Clermount scoring 4 tries both teams would finish on 20 and Clermount would go through as group winners on tries scored. Ulster would still have a decent chance of going through as best 2 runners up with 20 points. To avoid all this better just to go there and win in France for the first time ever!! Big ask I no but this is probably the best Ulster team ever, better than the European Cup winning team even.
I expect Munster and Leinster to have qualifying sowed up this wkend but unfortunately Toulouse at -28 was too tempting for me. The boys in green looked like they had ran out of steam last wk in aironi and a hammering could be on the cards.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2012, 01:20:39 PM
How will the others fair today? Munster at home and Connacht away to Toulouse, They will get some hammering there I'd say
Connacht up by 3 :-)
http://globalsports.netne.net/
Was at Ravenhill last night and have to say it was thoroughly enjoyable. Good hype before the game, great crowd, and a friendly enough atmosphere. The 'Rockette's were dire but the rest of the build up was pretty good.
I was slightly apprehensive about going and supporting Ulster but I needn't have been. Having read the explanation about sweet chariot (it did freak me out a bit although it did seem tongue in cheek) I am convinced there is not a hint of sectarianism in the ground. The chants of 'easy easy' were met by a man head to toe in Ulster gear shouting "hey, shut up your not in Windsor park now ya eejits" which got a lot of laughs around the place.
My only bugbear would be the Northern Ireland flags waving about but in fairness they are red and white and there were only about half a dozen.
The game itself was unreal. I'd followmy rugby so wasn't expecting that. To a man they were unreal and could have had more tries. Cave was brilliant, the pack, Pienaar Trimble everyone really and particularly in defence they handles Tuilagi well and only slipped up once. Thought Murphy was excellent also but by God did Ferris thump him in the 2nd half!
All in all a very good experience the main selling point for me was price. In the games premier competition and probably the tie of the round the ticket was £20. The GAA are charging £9 into county games against Uni sides which is ludicrous. I'd imagine the Championship will be another rip off this year too.
Anyway I am now a proud Ulsterman and I'm looking forward to my next Heineken Cup match ... SUFTUM!!!
Munster got through today a game early. I have seen a lot of criticism of them and their style and quality of play but to me it just looks like business as usual for them as they have always played unattractive winning rugby. They may well get a home quarter final now and that would have them almost in the semi finals. If they win the coin toss for a home semi final in the Aviva they might get to the final against Leinster.
I can see no flaws in Munsters game at the moment they are what they are and will be hard to beat.
Toulouse 24 Connacht 3 - I think you lost that bet WGM.
Quote from: screenexile on January 14, 2012, 06:03:31 PM
Was at Ravenhill last night and have to say it was thoroughly enjoyable. Good hype before the game, great crowd, and a friendly enough atmosphere. The 'Rockette's were dire but the rest of the build up was pretty good.
I was slightly apprehensive about going and supporting Ulster but I needn't have been. Having read the explanation about sweet chariot (it did freak me out a bit although it did seem tongue in cheek) I am convinced there is not a hint of sectarianism in the ground. The chants of 'easy easy' were met by a man head to toe in Ulster gear shouting "hey, shut up your not in Windsor park now ya eejits" which got a lot of laughs around the place.
My only bugbear would be the Northern Ireland flags waving about but in fairness they are red and white and there were only about half a dozen.
The game itself was unreal. I'd followmy rugby so wasn't expecting that. To a man they were unreal and could have had more tries. Cave was brilliant, the pack, Pienaar Trimble everyone really and particularly in defence they handles Tuilagi well and only slipped up once. Thought Murphy was excellent also but by God did Ferris thump him in the 2nd half!
All in all a very good experience the main selling point for me was price. In the games premier competition and probably the tie of the round the ticket was £20. The GAA are charging £9 into county games against Uni sides which is ludicrous. I'd imagine the Championship will be another rip off this year too.
Anyway I am now a proud Ulsterman and I'm looking forward to my next Heineken Cup match ... SUFTUM!!!
Have you no shame man? ;)
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 14, 2012, 08:37:12 PM
Munster got through today a game early. I have seen a lot of criticism of them and their style and quality of play but to me it just looks like business as usual for them as they have always played unattractive winning rugby. They may well get a home quarter final now and that would have them almost in the semi finals. If they win the coin toss for a home semi final in the Aviva they might get to the final against Leinster.
I can see no flaws in Munsters game at the moment they are what they are and will be hard to beat.
Toulouse 24 Connacht 3 - I think you lost that bet WGM.ko
Lost it alright, connacht fought hard but bit disappointed in toulouse.
Munster would have given that castre team a hidden a few yrs back, they let teams stay in games these days, that's the difference from their prime. They should reach the semi but one of leinster, clermount, toulouse would beat them and quins and saracens would also give them a rattle imo
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 14, 2012, 08:26:38 AM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 14, 2012, 12:20:52 AM
Was at the game and Ulster were up for it from the off, I wasn't sure about Pienaar last year but he has assumed the David Humphreys role to make them tick - Ian Humprhreys was also good but the forwards stole the show- destroyed the famous Leicester front-row-especially Afoa and Mueller as well as what has come to be a regular master-class from Ferris. Could do a job for us at FB atSt Tiernach's Park on Sunday to allow Dan forward,
Swing Low was a piss-take at how far the former English Greats have fallen- without Geordan Murphy they had no balls.
On a similar note, former Ulster and Ireland great Andy Ward will attend his first GAA match on sunday when he will be part of the Antrim coaching staff at Casement against Tyrone
Did he not bother with the Fermanagh game last week?
Started OK for Ulster
Friday, 20 January 2012
Connacht 3 - 0 Harlequins L
Penalties:
O'Connor
Galway Sportsground
Gloucester 7 - 0 Toulouse L
Tries:
May
Conversions:
Burns
Kingsholm
Spoke too soon
Gloucester 7 - 7 Toulouse L
Tries: May Tries: Dustautoir
Conversions: Burns Conversions: Beauxis
Harlequins strugging badly in the wind and rain in Galway - 9-5 down but still 1/2 hour to go and with a big breeeze. Toulouse 24-17 down in Gloucester.
the 2 leaders trailing.
Connacht doing well, watching it, they may win. hopefully they will grind out a result
Not looking good for them, its been some effort but as with all of their heineken cup games this year they have run out of steam and the better quality team has come through in the end.
Hope Im wrong for both their sake and Ulsters.
Gloucester have won, Ulster are in to the Q/Fs
Fair fcuks to Connacht, unbelievable committment and defensive work.
They have deserved it for the performances they have put in over the course of the tournament.
3 Irish teams through to the quarter final for the first time ever, am i correct in saying that??
and no english team by the looks of things!
Saracens likely to qualify
The guys in the Sky studio were in complete shock with that Connacht win.
(http://a1.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/037/Purple/09/d5/04/mzl.sjzypglu.320x480-75.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N_9wpfP3OA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N_9wpfP3OA)
;D
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/cicfada/Connachtdressingroompic.jpg)
Connacht dressing room after the match!!
Long time follower of Connacht rugby, in the shadows of the other provinces for so long and still but that was mighty tonight, its ridiculous how hard we make it for ourselves. I seen most of the heinken matches and i have to say looking back we could of been so much higher, our inability to close out matches cost us a win in gloucester and harlequins imo. Even gloucester at home was there for the taking. But give the players credit 4pts was no way a big enough lead with that wind but somehow only conceded 3pts 2nd half, unreal stuff. Is it ever not windy in Galway city?
A very good night for the Irish teams with Connachts win meaning Ulster qualufy and Munster and Leinster only needing one bonus point to secure home quarterfinals if Clermont beat Ulster without scoring 4 tries. It is maybe a pity that Toulouse didn't get knocked out though.
Sure noone can stop Leinster :-)
Quote from: cicfada on January 20, 2012, 10:37:23 PM
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/cicfada/Connachtdressingroompic.jpg)
Connacht dressing room after the match!!
GAA flags on the ceiling? Looks like Roscommon anyway and maybe Sligo to the left of it.
Ya, they had all the county flags up
Most of the English teams have been shite this year. Leicester were getting beat early on against the Italians Aironi
SUFTUM!
Some performance from Munster :o
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 21, 2012, 07:45:26 PM
Some performance from Munster :o
You could argue that the Saints had to nothing to play for but the Munster Forwards in particularly their back-row were rampant - superb 2nd half performance. Munster and Leinster 1 and 2, wonder who Ulster would prefer, probably Munster I'd say.
Would the Saints not still have been playing to get in the Challenge Cup? Even still they have more pride than to concede 50 pts at home in the HC.
Great weekend for Irish Rugby all 4 provinces doing themselves and supporters proud. I'm not sure how the permutations work but will it be Ulster v Leinster in the QF and will that be in the Aviva? Ferris v O'Brien will be an intriguing battle!!
Quote from: screenexile on January 21, 2012, 08:26:06 PM
Would the Saints not still have been playing to get in the Challenge Cup? Even still they have more pride than to concede 50 pts at home in the HC.
Great weekend for Irish Rugby all 4 provinces doing themselves and supporters proud. I'm not sure how the permutations work but will it be Ulster v Leinster in the QF and will that be in the Aviva? Ferris v O'Brien will be an intriguing battle!!
It will depend on the semi-final draw, if Leinster/Ulster (if it ends up like that) quarter is drawn at home then the quarter-final game will be at the RDS if away then they will probably play it at the Aviva.
:)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 21, 2012, 08:51:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 21, 2012, 08:26:06 PM
Would the Saints not still have been playing to get in the Challenge Cup? Even still they have more pride than to concede 50 pts at home in the HC.
Great weekend for Irish Rugby all 4 provinces doing themselves and supporters proud. I'm not sure how the permutations work but will it be Ulster v Leinster in the QF and will that be in the Aviva? Ferris v O'Brien will be an intriguing battle!!
It will depend on the semi-final draw, if Leinster/Ulster (if it ends up like that) quarter is drawn at home then the quarter-final game will be at the RDS if away then they will probably play it at the Aviva.
It would be poor form to have it in the RDS with the likely demand. Surely they could have it in the Aviva ir even Croker.
just finished watching Munster game - what a game and what a team !
Im going this year again to the final, 4th in 5 years, so far ive seen 2 Leinster wins (09, 11) and Munster (08).
Hopefully another Irish win in 2012, chances are good at the minuute. Lets hope for an injury free 6N
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 21, 2012, 08:51:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 21, 2012, 08:26:06 PM
Would the Saints not still have been playing to get in the Challenge Cup? Even still they have more pride than to concede 50 pts at home in the HC.
Great weekend for Irish Rugby all 4 provinces doing themselves and supporters proud. I'm not sure how the permutations work but will it be Ulster v Leinster in the QF and will that be in the Aviva? Ferris v O'Brien will be an intriguing battle!!
It will depend on the semi-final draw, if Leinster/Ulster (if it ends up like that) quarter is drawn at home then the quarter-final game will be at the RDS if away then they will probably play it at the Aviva.
Would be in the Aviva either way. Played Leicester last year in the qf in the Aviva. Would make no sense not to do same for Ulster.
You'd have to expect it'll be Munster v Ulster in Thomond Park.
If things go to plan tomorrow (a bit of a dangerous assumption I know) both Cardiff and Edinburgh would be expected to get wins against Racing Metro and London Irish who have nothing to play for.
If that is the case, it'll mean Ulster are the 8th seed and face Munster away in April.
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on January 21, 2012, 09:52:51 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 21, 2012, 08:51:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 21, 2012, 08:26:06 PM
Would the Saints not still have been playing to get in the Challenge Cup? Even still they have more pride than to concede 50 pts at home in the HC.
Great weekend for Irish Rugby all 4 provinces doing themselves and supporters proud. I'm not sure how the permutations work but will it be Ulster v Leinster in the QF and will that be in the Aviva? Ferris v O'Brien will be an intriguing battle!!
It will depend on the semi-final draw, if Leinster/Ulster (if it ends up like that) quarter is drawn at home then the quarter-final game will be at the RDS if away then they will probably play it at the Aviva.
Would be in the Aviva either way. Played Leicester last year in the qf in the Aviva. Would make no sense not to do same for Ulster.
Yea sorry was thinking that Leinster had to play a certain number of games in the RDS, this game is outside that commercial arrangement so it will be in the Aviva.
1/4 final weekend is 6/7/8/April - aka Good Fri Holy Sat and Easter Sun. The publicans will be hopeful Limerick and dublin avoid the Fri night slot - a big brown envelope to sky perhaps ?
Munster v Ulster winners at home in semi. Tough draw for Leinster away to Saracens or Clermont if they beat Cardiff in quarters
It set up for a Leinster Munster final.
Think Ulster would have preferred going to Munster rather than Leinster even taking fortress Thomand into consideration. Yesterdays performance from Munster was very impressive but Ulster will fancy their chances of causing the upset and will have nothing to lose. Think they will come up just short but should be a good tustle.
If Leinster and Clermount get through it will be some game between the two in the semi over in France. That being said Saracens away is a difficult game for Clermount and they could be easily beaten there.
You still gotta fancy Leinster to go all the way though.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 21, 2012, 11:08:26 PM
1/4 final weekend is 6/7/8/April - aka Good Fri Holy Sat and Easter Sun. The publicans will be hopeful Limerick and dublin avoid the Fri night slot - a big brown envelope to sky perhaps ?
Didn't ths happen before and there was a special dispensation?
I would be amazed if they got another dispensation! I don't rate their chances highly of getting one this time as this government seems to want to clamp down on alcoholic abuse judging by what the minister said there last week!
Easter Sunday at 1.45 in Thomond Park for Munster v Ulster.
Leinster get the primetime slot on Saturday evening.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 25, 2012, 10:13:28 AM
Easter Sunday at 1.45 in Thomond Park for Munster v Ulster.
Leinster get the primetime slot on Saturday evening.
Pubs will be happy to avoid good friday anyways!
True, it'll make for a long day though :D
Would this time give a very small advantage to Ulster? I would say you would rather play Munster at Thomand on a Sunday lunchtime rather than a saturday evening. It may be a small thing but cant see the atmosphere being as red hot on a sunday lunchtime as a saturday evening when Munster usually prefer to play.
Maybe Im clutching at straws for the ulstermen!!!
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 25, 2012, 01:08:42 PM
Would this time give a very small advantage to Ulster? I would say you would rather play Munster at Thomand on a Sunday lunchtime rather than a saturday evening. It may be a small thing but cant see the atmosphere being as red hot on a sunday lunchtime as a saturday evening when Munster usually prefer to play.
Maybe Im clutching at straws for the ulstermen!!!
I don't think Ulster need to clutch at straws, but yes, I think you have point there. On the other hand, it was the same timing when they played Ospresys in the QF there a couple of years ago and the place was rocking, and Munster hung 40+ points on them, so I don't think it would be an excuse from Munster.
Very valid I agree, they played Quins last year with a 1pm KO and it was very muted and Quins won comfortable enough. Ulster will bring a big support what will their ticket allocation be?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 25, 2012, 01:20:07 PM
Very valid I agree, they played Quins last year with a 1pm KO and it was very muted and Quins won comfortable enough. Ulster will bring a big support what will their ticket allocation be?
About 20 :D No they get an increased allowance alright. I'm expecting a good Ulster crowd down, which will spur on the Munster fans too I'd suspect. Anyone coming down? I'll buy ye a pint :D
Very tough draw for Munster, Ulster are one of the form teams in the HEC and are still pretty underrated.
Assuming they come through the Six Nations with a clean bill of health they'll be tough to beat.
Quote from: Keane on January 25, 2012, 02:34:22 PM
Very tough draw for Munster, Ulster are one of the form teams in the HEC and are still pretty underrated.
Assuming they come through the Six Nations with a clean bill of health they'll be tough to beat.
Kidney won't pick any of them so they'll be fine ;)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 25, 2012, 01:20:07 PM
Very valid I agree, they played Quins last year with a 1pm KO and it was very muted and Quins won comfortable enough. Ulster will bring a big support what will their ticket allocation be?
I was at that Amlin cup match if thats the one you are talking about and it was fair muted alright. Heineken cup will be a different story and the place will be jumping. Throat is still recovering from Milton Keynes last Saturday!
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on January 25, 2012, 02:36:48 PM
Kidney won't pick any of them so they'll be fine ;)
Ah don't get me started on that clown!
Quote from: Keane on January 25, 2012, 03:15:41 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on January 25, 2012, 02:36:48 PM
Kidney won't pick any of them so they'll be fine ;)
Ah don't get me started on that clown!
How quickly they forget!
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/grandslam.png)
Quote from: Hardy on January 25, 2012, 03:40:10 PM
How quickly they forget!
This isn't the thread for the discussion, but winning a Grand Slam on the lowest ebb of the RWC preparation curve for Wales, France and England was a moderate achievement.
A good few others tried and failed though Keane. I'd call it a good acheivement, but one that hasn't really been built on. A bit like the legacy in Munster really. Two great HEC wins, but no eye to the next crop.
Quote from: Keane on January 25, 2012, 04:09:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 25, 2012, 03:40:10 PM
How quickly they forget!
This isn't the thread for the discussion, but winning a Grand Slam on the lowest ebb of the RWC preparation curve for Wales, France and England was a moderate achievement.
Unbelievable, how the fcuk can you down play a team winning something like a grand slam, they beat everything in front of them no matter how poor they were. You would have been doing some giving off had they not won it. You really cant please some people
Fucks sake is it any wonder the Irish win nothing when the prevailing attitude is that we didn't win because we were good but because the opposition was shit.
Looks like Brad Thorn could be signing on the dotted line for Leinster for the rest of the season, that would be savage..
Jesus. Have ye not got enough? I presume this is because of Leo's ankle?
Ah here! Feck sake.....
Quote from: Up The Middle on January 25, 2012, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Keane on January 25, 2012, 04:09:07 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 25, 2012, 03:40:10 PM
How quickly they forget!
This isn't the thread for the discussion, but winning a Grand Slam on the lowest ebb of the RWC preparation curve for Wales, France and England was a moderate achievement.
Unbelievable, how the fcuk can you down play a team winning something like a grand slam, they beat everything in front of them no matter how poor they were. You would have been doing some giving off had they not won it. You really cant please some people
Absolutely no one is reading your posts btw ;)
zip up zip down zip up zip down :o
lads anyone know when do ticketmaster send out the tickets for the final ? Is it close to the final date or do they usually send them out fairly soon after you book them ?
For concets, it is usually about a month/6 weeks before the concert.
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 16, 2012, 09:46:51 AM
For concets, it is usually about a month/6 weeks before the concert.
I used to think that was the case Denn only that they issued the Bruce Springsteen tickets before christmas and mine got delivered to a different person altogether not ticketmasters fault an post's as it was my address on the envelope. Thankfully they contacted me and gave me the ticket otherwise i would be still waiting for them.
I don't understand it either.
Quote from: Capt Pat on February 17, 2012, 04:01:46 PM
I don't understand it either.
Wasn't the decision about McLaughlin not made in the summer? And I thought it was a sideways move, not a demotion.
Quote from: Blue and White on February 17, 2012, 05:50:10 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 17, 2012, 04:13:49 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on February 17, 2012, 04:01:46 PM
I don't understand it either.
Wasn't the decision about McLaughlin not made in the summer? And I thought it was a sideways move, not a demotion.
Surely if the decision was made in the summer it would have been announced and would have saved the embarassing situation ulster are in now. McLaughlin has done a great job and i for one wouldnt be surprised if they beat Munster in the H cup. I'd heard before that Humphreys was putting pressure on to ensure that the Humphreys jr keeps his place at fly half but then again it has never been confirmed.
I dont for a second believe that its a move sideways, theres no way McLaughlin will be on the same pay as the new coach.
I think the new role gives him a chance to get back into teaching. He was on a career brake from his last job so he might have been forced to make a decision give up teaching and take up coaching full time. Or coach the next generation for Ulster and retake his teaching position. I think McLaughlin decided himself not to renew the contract
No, I'm pretty sure I heard a statement that McLaughlin was 'disappointed' at the decision Ulster had made. He might be a good guy in the development area though.
McLaughlin went to the ulster branch last year and asked for a full time contract so he could give up the teaching and not have to worry about future income. The ulster branch agreed, he was awarded a full time contract and a one year extension to his head coach role.
Whatever way McLaughlin looked at the press conference, he knew his contract as head coach was up at the end of this season and he would revert to the hole as head of the academy. Maybe he thought after impressive performances since christmas they would reconsider but the decision was made well before christmas probably based on performances such as the loss at home to treveso and the away defeat to dragons early in the season.
McLaughlins history with school teams make him the ideal candidate to head the acadamy with Gary Longwell backing him up. He has done well over the 3 years but ulster have very lofty ambitions and they now want to move on to the next level and be consistently in semis and finals of competition. It is my understanding that Ulster think McLaughlin has done a good job and brought them to a certain level, they now want to move on and surpass that.
This nonsense of him falling out with Hump over the wee brother is complete rubbish. Hump isnt the type of man who would do that and Shane Logan wouldnt put up with it either.
Looks like Tony McGahan is heading back to Oz. Wonder will Declan Kidney be asked to come back (I'd prefer not), or Eddie O'Sullivan (please no). I'd like Michael Bradley or Conor O'Shea to get it, but I'd imagine Edinburgh and 'Quins would have something to say about that.
From the indo:
QuoteAnthony Foley is the early favourite to become the new Munster head coach, with Tony McGahan set to announce his departure to become the new Australian defence coach after the apparent breakdown of contract talks.
McGahan has already informed his squad of the decision to leave, even though he has led the side to the quarter-finals of the Heineken Cup and the top four of the Pro12.
Former Ireland coach Eddie O'Sullivan and the All Blacks World Cup-winning assistant Wayne Smith are also leading contenders, after contract talks between McGahan and his Munster bosses reached a dead end earlier this month.
Munster may also sound out Michael Bradley, although the Edinburgh coach has only just begun an initially successful spell with the Scots, leading them to the Heineken Cup quarter-finals.
Conor O'Shea would be a popular choice, although he has just signed a two-year contract extension as coach of English side Harlequins.
McGahan's decision to leave at the end of the season could persuade some players, such as Tomas O'Leary and Donnacha Ryan, to remain in Munster instead of seeking transfers.
McGahan, who initially joined Munster as a defensive coach for their debut Heineken Cup win in 2006, was reportedly keen to stay on after his side's success in reaching this year's knockout stages.
However, the lure of a prestigious role in a revamped Robbie Deans-led coaching set-up in his native country, twinned with the protracted contract negotiations, has persuaded the Queenslander to make his decision.
He had responded brilliantly to Munster's failure to qualify from their Heineken Cup pool last season, by guiding the province into this campaign's knockout stages with six wins from six.
His side also won the Magners League last year and, with Foley seemingly groomed to succeed him in the medium-term, it seemed that McGahan would prolong his stay after the successful introduction of emerging stars such as Simon Zebo and Peter O'Mahony.
- David Kelly
The players would favour Foley I'd imagine.
Yeah they would. Not sure about that though. He's definitely made the forwards better than they were under Laurie Fisher, but I don't know what he'd be like as a 'big picture' man. Conor O'Shea is definitely a big picture man.
McGahan I feel was not appreciated by the Munster faithful and only now are Munster fans realising that Kidney left an awful mess behind, too many old players and a wretched academy set-up. He was a good coach and will be a loss for Munster.
Foley has potential but that's it, would love to see him take a 2 year sabbatical and spend a year coaching NZ and England, just to broaden his horizons and then come back into the Munster fold.
Surprised you mention Bradley as a successor, has done surprisingly well with Edinburgh but wasn't a popular coach in Connacht but he does have the family connections...
Someone like Mark Hammett would be a great choice - schooled in the Crusaders way and now head coach of the Hurricanes, young and ambitious..
Nice addition to the Leinster cause for 3 months
(http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/images/news/Brad-Thorn-blue-12.jpg)
Big Brad
Brad Thorn?
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 07, 2012, 05:41:01 PM
Brad Thorn?
Old news
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 26, 2012, 05:22:19 PM
Looks like Brad Thorn could be signing on the dotted line for Leinster for the rest of the season, that would be savage..
Ulster have a new coach - Mark Anscombe
http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/10277.php (http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/10277.php)
Not on my radar but apart from an u/20 WC win is success rate ain't too hot, interesting choice.
back in action this weekend -
1 - Munster v Ulster
2 - Edinburgh v Toulouse
3 - Saracens v Clermont
4 - Leinster v Cardiff
Semis is 1 v 2 and 3 v 4
I will go with tradition and the 4 home wins, but where is the shock likely to come at. Thomond perhaps? Edinburgh ?
Id prob go for 3 home wins and Toulouse myself. Munster Ulster is going to be seriously interesting tomorrow.
Cave v Earls
Trimble v Zebo
Pienaar v Murrey
Tuohy v Ryan
Just a few of the interesting one on one match ups, a lot of them maybe playing for summer places to NZ.
If Ferris was fully fit which I just dont think is possibe I would have taken a chance on Ulster but him not being fully 100% tips it in Munsters balance with home advantage also a big factor.
What time's the Leinster match kicking off at?
Edinburgh after causing an unbelievable upset beating Toulouse in Murrayfield...
Micheal Bradley is after working a miracle to get the second to bottom team in the Rabo League to beat one of the Powerhouse in European Rugby...
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 04:52:07 PM
Edinburgh after causing an unbelievable upset beating Toulouse in Murrayfield...
Micheal Bradley is after working a miracle to get the second to bottom team in the Rabo League to beat one of the Powerhouse in European Rugby...
Toulouse were hopeless, how the mighty have fallen.
For the Leinster fans when was the last match were you thought "Heaslip was excellent today"?
All over before the half. 27-3 to Leinster.
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
If they don't win it I'll eat my hat!! Was a cracking game, they were unreal at times. Good to see BOD back in action
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2012, 10:23:29 PM
If they don't win it I'll eat my hat!! Was a cracking game, they were unreal at times. Good to see BOD back in action
Saracens in Twickenham of Clermont in Bordeaux will be tough, probably tougher than a potential final, so it's very 50/50 yet
Not according to Paddy ;)
6/5 fav with Munster next at 3/1
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!
Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?
Anybody have a good suggestion for watching Munster v Ulster online?
I use this:
http://mypremium.tv/
Click on "Play" next to Sky Sport 2 on the RHS.
It's usually reasonable quality.
Some start by Ulster.
Well done Ulster, great win. Ferris is a beast.
Brilliant game and fair play to the Ulster men.
Quote from: theticklemister on April 08, 2012, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!
Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?
Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.
Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.
Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."
Ah feck it was a joke!
Well done Ulster!
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 08, 2012, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!
Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?
Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.
Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.
Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."
Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.
A friend of mine on Facebook put up a big sweeping post on the Ulster win, saying "Roy Keane, Terry Wogan, Cillian Murphy, Countess Markiewicz, Michael Collins, your lads took one hell of a beating".
Please tell me I was ok to pull him on the Markiewicz thing, that she's not Munster's first daughter or something?
He wasn't happy with me anyway but hasn't contradicted me.
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2012, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 08, 2012, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!
Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?
Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.
Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.
Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."
Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.
I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.
Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2012, 09:39:11 PM
A friend of mine on Facebook put up a big sweeping post on the Ulster win, saying "Roy Keane, Terry Wogan, Cillian Murphy, Countess Markiewicz, Michael Collins, your lads took one hell of a beating".
Please tell me I was ok to pull him on the Markiewicz thing, that she's not Munster's first daughter or something?
He wasn't happy with me anyway but hasn't contradicted me.
Unless London or Sligo are now in Munster, he is way off.
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2012, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 08, 2012, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!
Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?
Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.
Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.
Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."
Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.
I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.
Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.
As the boys down our way would say "Ye've little to bother you."
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2012, 10:12:10 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2012, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 08, 2012, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!
Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?
Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.
Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.
Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."
Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.
I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.
Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.
As the boys down our way would say "Ye've little to bother you."
If you don't agree with me that's ok. Let's move on.
Ulster Abu.
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 08, 2012, 11:40:32 PM
Ulster Abu.
SUFTUM !
Like practically every thread on this board, it turns into a North v South, Hun V Taig, Man v Woman,
Farmer v City Slicker.
So, whether your from Derry, a prod, have balls or not and dig spuds or carry a briefcase :-
SUFTUM !!
What a victory !
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 08, 2012, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 08, 2012, 11:40:32 PM
Ulster Abu.
SUFTUM !
Like practically every thread on this board, it turns into a North v South, Hun V Taig, Man v Woman,
Farmer v City Slicker.
So, whether your from Derry, a prod, have balls or not and dig spuds or carry a briefcase :-
SUFTUM !!
What a victory !
What about the townies >:(
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 09, 2012, 01:18:49 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 08, 2012, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 08, 2012, 11:40:32 PM
Ulster Abu.
SUFTUM !
Like practically every thread on this board, it turns into a North v South, Hun V Taig, Man v Woman,
Farmer v City Slicker.
So, whether your from Derry, a prod, have balls or not and dig spuds or carry a briefcase :-
SUFTUM !!
What a victory !
What about the townies >:(
they tie in with the City Slcikers, probably only one handle on the the briefcase and un-gelled Cameron Diaz hairstyle are the big differences
The only problem is I don't think Barry McGoldrick would have the temperment, kicking ability, running ability or hands of Trimble............or more importantly the looks!!
Overall tis great win for Ulster and will surly be favourites to beat Edinburgh now. Ah hoof hearted your just making up excuses for a fight now; wouldn't be like ye Bellaghy Boys now would it. What about Bellaghy this year I hear yer gonna take up the oul rugby to make sure you win some medals this year!!!lol!!! Mind ye I wouldn't want to be stopping big Fergal Doc or Diver!!
The longer this season goes on the more embarrassing it gets for david humphreys
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 09, 2012, 10:32:08 AM
The longer this season goes on the more embarrassing it gets for david humphreys
Nail hit on head, I fully agree. Not only was Mclaughlin's 'sideways move' prematurely announced it was done disgracefully in PR terms. There's no disguising how the players feel...
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/ulsters-heroic-march-reaching-full-stride-3074620.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/ulsters-heroic-march-reaching-full-stride-3074620.html)
It would be f**king hilarious if they won it.
Absolute clowns in charge, inferiority complex as big as a house, getting rid of a man who's doing a great job.
Have to beat Edinburgh first.
Quote from: haranguerer on April 09, 2012, 11:17:04 AM
It would be f**king hilarious if they won it.
Absolute clowns in charge, inferiority complex as big as a house, getting rid of a man who's doing a great job.
There was a shot of them together talking during yesterdays game when at that stage the Ulster team were hammering Munster and you were all ' Humpreys what the feck are you at!' I think he might of been saying the same also. I had a lot of respect for Humphreys during his playing days and believed that he should have had a lot more game time ahead of Elwood and O'Gara but in recent months it has gone down the pan. The best thing now is for the coach to embarass Humphreys and the Ulster directorship by winning the Heinekin Cup!
Sat 28th April - Ulster v Edinburgh @ The Aviva 5.45PM
Sun 29th April - Clermont Auvergne @ Borduaux 3.00PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2012, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 08, 2012, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!
Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?
Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.
Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.
Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."
Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.
I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.
Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.
What do you mean his faith doesnt fit in with playing for Coleraine, bit of a narrow minded jibe there. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the club and shows your own insecurities. :P
Quote from: theticklemister on April 09, 2012, 11:51:47 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on April 09, 2012, 11:17:04 AM
It would be f**king hilarious if they won it.
Absolute clowns in charge, inferiority complex as big as a house, getting rid of a man who's doing a great job.
There was a shot of them together talking during yesterdays game when at that stage the Ulster team were hammering Munster and you were all ' Humpreys what the feck are you at!' I think he might of been saying the same also. I had a lot of respect for Humphreys during his playing days and believed that he should have had a lot more game time ahead of Elwood and O'Gara but in recent months it has gone down the pan. The best thing now is for the coach to embarass Humphreys and the Ulster directorship by winning the Heinekin Cup!
McLaughlin seems like a decent guy, mad about the sport and his team. I hope for his sake they go on and win it to sicken that fool humphreys. The team is playing great under him--why change? A new coach will bring new ideas and gameplan and will want time to implement his system--this will only serve to put Ulster backwards, not forwards.
I'd reverse the decision and let McLaughlin continue on.
What a win though--away to Munster. Some size in that Ulster team
Quote from: whiskeysteve on April 09, 2012, 03:04:31 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2012, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 08, 2012, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!
Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?
Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.
Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.
Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."
Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.
I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.
Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.
What do you mean his faith doesnt fit in with playing for Coleraine, bit of a narrow minded jibe there. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the club and shows your own insecurities. :P
Read my post first before replying, think you've misunderstood me. I am quite familiar with Coleraine and have few insecurities in that regard.
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2012, 10:12:10 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2012, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 08, 2012, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!
Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?
Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.
Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.
Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."
Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.
I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.
Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.
As the boys down our way would say "Ye've little to bother you."
Would agree 100%, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill
Leinster highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j4h_SCK-gQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j4h_SCK-gQ)
Ulster/Munster highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SvOMj9XESI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SvOMj9XESI)
Edinburgh highlight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69niQTdcypg&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69niQTdcypg&feature=relmfu)
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 09, 2012, 05:08:12 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on April 09, 2012, 03:04:31 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 09:45:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2012, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: Thefisherking on April 08, 2012, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on April 08, 2012, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 07, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on April 07, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty
just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully
Not for Derry
you wold never know :D
sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)
I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!
Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?
Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.
Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.
Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."
Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.
I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.
Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.
What do you mean his faith doesnt fit in with playing for Coleraine, bit of a narrow minded jibe there. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the club and shows your own insecurities. :P
Read my post first before replying, think you've misunderstood me. I am quite familiar with Coleraine and have few insecurities in that regard.
Alright Victor Meldrew :P, just using your own overblown language against you lad ;D Use of this face ( :P) would be a hint for a post not to be taken seriously!
Very well done to Ulster, and their fans were great too. Super result for them, and fully deserved. Munster started terribly, and then didn't have the creativity to break down Ulster when they were on top. Too many silly errors, and fantastic Ulster defense saw to that.
Back to the drawing board for Munster, but in truth they probably had a false sense of where they were because apart from Northampton away, they didn't really show great form in this competition, despite going 6 for 6 in the pool.
Few lads getting carried away with McLaughlin here, Ulster owe alot of there success to buying good players from the ANZAC. Pienaar is simply sublime, the best 9 currently left in the competition and a huge factor in Ulsters good season without him they would not be near to playing at this level. Any Ulster match I have seen this season he is dragging the team with him, in a different stratosphere to those around him.
There was a good piece in the Indo about the McLaughlin/Humphries situation. (There are a few good pieces once you stay away from the GAA stuff, there was an excellent one last week about Sean Foley and the Golf)
QuoteSunday April 08 2012
David Humphreys' ambitious plan for Ulster faces its litmus test this afternoon, says Brendan Fanning
We don't have definitive statistics to confirm this, but virtually every time we walk through the gate from Onslow Parade, it's cold and wet and thoroughly miserable. Ravenhill makes the Sportsground feel like LA. It is rarely anything other than grey.
Naturally enough, this is the topic of conversation with a member of the Ulster staff as we wait for David Humphreys, a man who, over a lifetime of rugby, managed to eke every advantage out of those familiarly bleak conditions.
"Hopefully it will be a bit brighter in Limerick," says the lady in reception. "It's a long trek, isn't it?" she asks, suggesting it's unbroken ground for her. Oh, it's that all right. And are hopes high of the 6,000 Ulster folk singing all the way home? "Well, they have to believe that's it's doable, don't they?"
That's been the recurring theme this past week. Aside from the fitness of Stephen Ferris on the one side, and the clutch of returning Munster men on the other, it's been all about what's going on in Ulster heads, and if they have come far enough along the road to cope with Munster in Limerick on a Heineken Cup day.
The man who is driving them down that road is David Humphreys. When Ravenhill was heaving on those heady days in the 1998/'99 campaign, the outhalf was the go-to man. He directed the operation; Simon Mason applied the finishing touches. From the moment Humphreys announced himself on the senior team in 1992 as a skinny, 11-stone-something replacement -- coincidentally at an interpro in Thomond Park -- and dropped a goal to clinch the tie, he has been at the heart of the operation.
Twenty years on and not a whole lot heavier, not that much has changed. As a player, Humphreys was expected to do the spectacular. As rugby director, he has swapped boots for sandals and taken on the role of Moses.
We don't know what the biblical bloke was like in getting the lads out of Egypt, but if he had the ruthless streak of David George Humphreys then there can't have been much doubt that they would arrive. It's a question of when.
The Ballymena man had barely signed off after his 162 provincial caps when he was cornered for a newly-created role to deliver his people to the Promised Land. That was 2008. For the first year or so he ran around getting his hands dirty on all the different bits of machinery that made up the Ulster operation. For the last two years he has been steering things from further up the production line, and evidently in the right direction.
"We had all felt that Ulster was on a bit of a slide," he says of the scene when he got the job first. "So at that point you're standing looking at the situation and going, you know what, there's two options here: we let Munster and Leinster run away from us and make the gap so big it'll never be closed and we become almost a feeder province to them or some of the English and French clubs, or else we really have a crack at trying to reestablish Ulster as a competitive force in what at that time was the Magners League, and then also the Heineken Cup.
"I've been involved since Ulster schools at 17, so I had 20 years in this organisation and it's something I feel very passionate about, and something I have a huge amount of pride in. And I think it hurt all of us who had been involved over that period, and these were people who had been involved with Ulster during that period when nobody beat them. And out of the blue I was offered this opportunity to stay involved and try and maybe help turn things around."
Let's sum up where they are now then. Off the field, their crowds are up modestly on last season, and a sustained spike will be required to match the planning-approved development of Ravenhill, supported to the tune of €18.2m by the NI Executive, into an 18,000-capacity stadium by autumn 2014. Humphreys accepts that with their ambition to be bigger and better comes the risk that the place could have the feel of a Welsh new-build, where the loudest noise is the echo.
On the field, their results since winning the Magners League in 2006 have read: 5th, 9th, 8th, 8th, 3rd. Currently they are just outside the play-off zone, with a point separating them from the two teams in third and fourth. Last season they qualified for the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup for the first time since winning it in 1999. And two months ago they repeated the trick.
The squad has been transformed by the arrival of men hand-picked by Humphreys. His overseas signings have all worked out very well, notwithstanding Jared Payne rupturing his Achilles after only three games -- he will play next season when Humphreys expects him to do for Ulster what Isa Nacewa has done for Leinster. Indeed, the only one of his signings you'd say has stalled has been Mike McComish, who was returning north from Connacht having had a sojourn in England in between.
Clearly, Humphreys is very good at this. He puts a lot of time into identifying the right man, and then hops on a plane to meet him before taking it any further. This is not standard practice in rugby recruitment. It is the part of the job he says he enjoys most. It might not be because he is such a good people person -- and some in Ravenhill would say he has a bit of work to do on this front -- but because he has such a clear understanding of what is needed to move the group forward. And he is driven by an ambition that owes something to the last days of the Roman Empire, as was London Irish in the earliest days of professionalism.
"I look back on it very fondly, but also with a sense of frustration because for me that was what summed up Irish rugby back then," he says.
"When you look at that group of players and what some of them went on to achieve with different clubs, but also with London Irish and with Ireland, it was actually a very, very competitive team when you look at it now. But because we were Irish and we were playing in an English league, right at the start we didn't believe we were good enough. And that showed in the results."
So he wasn't going there again. That would mean taking tough decisions in Ulster. The first, which didn't attract that much media comment at the time, was ditching his old pal Jeremy Davidson from the forwards coaching job last year. That was followed two months ago by the sideways shift -- which generated a storm up north -- of Brian McLaughlin from the head coach role to the Academy.
"When Brian first came in three years ago he and I both saw a long-term future for him in Ulster rugby because of the experience he's gained," Humphreys says, by way of background.
"The difficulty obviously is that the timing of it is hard but in professional sport is there a good time to make decisions? We had to make it halfway through the year to give some of the coaches the opportunity to look elsewhere so there were a whole lot of factors in it, but yes we could have done it differently. And if we ever have to do it again we will do it differently. But, as I say, we feel it was made for the right reasons and it's a decision we're very comfortable with."
You shouldn't suspect for a moment that the last sentence in that paragraph was media-speak. Nor should you think that Humphreys did not consult the senior players before he went through with the move. To sum it up: McLaughlin had been hired as a member of staff rather than a contracted head coach, and both Humphreys and CEO Shane Logan maintain it was always the plan to move him to the Academy at some point. McLaughlin understandably had the hump that the move came when his stock had never been higher.
It is ironic that the controversy should have echoes of Warren Gatland's shock parting from Ireland in 2001. The Kiwi was moved on because it was thought, correctly, that he had served his purpose with that group.
The thought process, right or wrong, with McLaughlin is exactly the same. Humphreys remembers meeting Gatland not long after he took over the reins in Ravenhill.
"He said, 'you know what, there'll be a lot of ups and downs along the way but it will take you a long time to establish what you want. Don't get frustrated'. There were times where, like the start of the season when we lost four games on the bounce and you're thinking: 'Jeepers, how can 80 minutes on a Friday night be such a determining factor in your whole week in the mindset of everybody involved?'"
They got over that early-season slump to reach a point where, with their best team out, they can go toe to toe with anyone. Their problem is getting a bench to match the starting XV. And then a support cast for the bench.
If you are in any doubt about the role of the replacements, then go back to Leinster's last-quarter demolition of Munster last weekend. In the background, Ulster have plans to raise the playing numbers in the province from 27,000 at all levels to 40,000 to support their production line.
They won't get out of the starting blocks in that race without pushing on in Europe. The return of Tommy Bowe and Roger Wilson next season will add to that drive, but mostly they need to kick-start it with success in Limerick today. Defeat would mean that the three biggest games of their campaign: Leicester and Clermont away, and then Munster, had all gone south.
"It's not about persuading our team they can win, it's about preparing the team that they go out and play to the best of their ability," says Humphreys.
"We've been tested at different stages. You know we didn't win at Welford Road, we didn't win at Stade Michelin, so going to Thomond Park is the biggest test we're going to face this year. Since round six of the Heineken Cup we've been talking about it and preparing for it; yes, we've had games in between but we all know this is the one we've all been looking towards, the one that everyone involved in Ulster rugby, whether administrator, player, staff, supporter, this is the one we've been looking forward to."
It's hard to say what percentage of those defeats could be ascribed to not being certain of themselves beforehand, or at key moments in the contests. There is no room for that sort of ambivalence today.
As the lassie in Ravers said, they have to believe it's doable. Otherwise, they'll get well and truly done.
It would seem Humphreys agrees the thing was handled wrongly but ultimately the right decision was made. If you think Humphreys somehow feels he has egg on his face I would highly doubt it. A lot of that victory is down to his work as well and he seems to be a man constantly looking to improve which is what someone in his position should be doing!
Quote from: trileacman on April 09, 2012, 09:47:09 PM
Few lads getting carried away with McLaughlin here, Ulster owe alot of there success to buying good players from the ANZAC. Pienaar is simply sublime, the best 9 currently left in the competition and a huge factor in Ulsters good season without him they would not be near to playing at this level. Any Ulster match I have seen this season he is dragging the team with him, in a different stratosphere to those around him.
The Irish Rugby board had a lot to do with getting Pienaar to Ulster. Not the managment at ravenhill.
The IRFU wanted to improve Ulster to help them perform in europe which is in the long run in Irelands best intrest
Quote from: oisinog on April 10, 2012, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: trileacman on April 09, 2012, 09:47:09 PM
Few lads getting carried away with McLaughlin here, Ulster owe alot of there success to buying good players from the ANZAC. Pienaar is simply sublime, the best 9 currently left in the competition and a huge factor in Ulsters good season without him they would not be near to playing at this level. Any Ulster match I have seen this season he is dragging the team with him, in a different stratosphere to those around him.
The Irish Rugby board had a lot to do with getting Pienaar to Ulster. Not the managment at ravenhill.
In the sense that they coughed up a large part of the money (from Ireland's International Match receipts), you are correct.
However, the following quotation from Fanning's article strongly suggests that so long as they keep within budget, plus the Irish-qualified quota etc, then authority to sign individual players is devolved to Provincial level:
"Clearly, Humphreys is very good at this. He puts a lot of time into identifying the right man, and then hops on a plane to meet him before taking it any further. This is not standard practice in rugby recruitment. It is the part of the job he says he enjoys most."Of course, with all the plaudits and sympathy currently being expressed for McLaughlin etc, I am not surprised that DH is particularly concerned to puff up his own part in the current success.
But since he clearly has great authority within Ulster Rugby, and is pretty ambitious with it, I am sure that when it comes to new signings, his role is not just a technical one (i.e. negotiating contracts etc); rather he, not McLaughlin or even the IRFU, has the final say in exactly who comes into Ravenhill and who goes out.
And so far, at least, he looks to have been pretty successful (imo).
Quote from: oisinog on April 10, 2012, 11:58:28 AMThe IRFU wanted to improve Ulster to help them perform in europe which is in the long run in Irelands best intrest
The same applies to the other three Provinces (even if their ambitions for Connacht are rather more modest).
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/563651_116473208484977_100003668957461_87265_1289174123_n.jpg)
Quote from: Blue and White on April 10, 2012, 09:25:29 PM
I posted on here a while back about how disappointed I was with the demotion of Brian McLaughlin but decided to wait and see who the new coach would be, expecting a big name or maybe someone with heineken cup experience. I hope the new guy Anscombe continues the good work of Brian but surely its a massive risk appointing someone with no experience of European rugby. Everyone wants to find the new Joe Schmidt but he came from france after a few years as the clermont number 2. Would be great to see a few of the Ulster guys make the summer tour to NZ, certainly Tuohy, Henry, Cave and Wallace (the form 12 in Ireland) deserve to go.
You raise something I want to question . . . I didn't even realise Paddy Wallace was playing on Saturday until the final whistle went and he was wearing no. 12. He contributed absolutely nothing going forward and I hardly remember him touching the ball or having any impact on the game at all!
Sunday was never going to be the type of game where Wallace skill set would shine at its best. However like the rest if his teammates he defended very well, something he has received fierce criticise of from the southern media.
It should be noted however that from Christmas he has been performing very well and is the form Irish 12. Having said that he is 32 and isn't the future and imo shouldn't therefore go to NZ imo.
Some shite spouted on here bout David humphreys. It pretty obvious that a few on here no nothing bout the man or Ulster rugby for that matter. Before humphreys and shane Logan came along Ulster were scrapping with the boys from the west as Ireland 3rd best team. mclaughlin deserves a lot of credit but so too does the other 2 guys.
Ulster up at the half despite being a man down for ten minutes, they have showed great defense so far.
Ah there the 2nd best team on the day. Luck and the absolutely peerless Ruan Pienaar was the winning of it for them. I was very impressed by Edinburgh, but for some bad luck ( the try, few knock-ons, no yellow for Ferris) they would have took the match today. They have few really outstanding players but their philosophy is brilliant and the key to their success. Bradley should really be given a bigger gig after this one. They copy Leinster in that they look to keep the ball moving, clear rucks quickly and move it on as soon as they can.
Laidlaw was terrific today, surpassed all expectation and fought to the bitter end. Match saving rip from a man almost 50% heavier than him and followed it with another one in the closing stages. Visser was also the best winger on display, great talent from a non-traditional rugby country.
Ulster play are pretty much the same as their mercenaries, big, rough and South African. Game is based upon a strong scrum, goal-kicker who can nail them from his own half and a big kicking Full-Back. After that it's all about crashing ball and making tackles. It has worked for them so far but I can't say it is particularly inventive or ground breaking. I think Leinster/Clermont will dispose of them with a relative ease in the final.
Bet them grapes tasted sour. :)
Think Trileacman"s analysis is pretty spot-on actually- with one disagreement though. I really enjoyed the Aviva atmosphere yesterday but the performance was not on a par with Thomond. Afoa and Henry were missed and the backs lacked creativity. Michael Bradley's stamp was all over Edinburgh- he should be a shoo-in to succeed Kidney.The weather made the occasion; it was like an AI semi-final but even Kerry would bring more supporters than Edinburgh. My one disagreement with TM is that whoever comes out of Bordeaux today will have their work cut out at Twickeham. If the medics can sort out the clear knee problems with Ferris, I reckon there is a destiny that Ulster are going to win it .
Yes, most of his points are correct. Didn't see a well done Ulster among the post. Sour grapes indeed.
Quote from: dillinger on April 29, 2012, 11:23:57 AM
Yes, most of his points are correct. Didn't see a well done Ulster among the post. Sour grapes indeed.
Am I from Edinburgh? Why would I have sour grapes?
As for Dubh I suppose that Ulster's defence will make them hard to beat and Pienaar's kicking will keep them within range of most teams. However I don't think they are operating near to the levels of Clermont and Leinster, two teams who have nailed down the traditional skills of the game and added some attacking flair to it. Edinburgh's scrum was weak and it cost them big time yesterday, Leinster proved a week ago that they can scrummage against Ulster and I'd say if Clermont are operating at the top end of the Super 14 they are bound to have a strong scrum.
Quote from: trileacman on April 29, 2012, 12:44:49 PM
Quote from: dillinger on April 29, 2012, 11:23:57 AM
Yes, most of his points are correct. Didn't see a well done Ulster among the post. Sour grapes indeed.
Am I from Edinburgh? Why would I have sour grapes?
As for Dubh I suppose that Ulster's defence will make them hard to beat and Pienaar's kicking will keep them within range of most teams. However I don't think they are operating near to the levels of Clermont and Leinster, two teams who have nailed down the traditional skills of the game and added some attacking flair to it. Edinburgh's scrum was weak and it cost them big time yesterday, Leinster proved a week ago that they can scrummage against Ulster and I'd say if Clermont are operating at the top end of the Super 14 they are bound to have a strong scrum.
The Leinster scrum creaked (and collapsed) more than once against Ulster last week, and that was without John Afoa - arguably the best tighthead operating in Europe at the minute - playing. As for Clermont, the Ulster scrum had the upper hand on them when they met at Ravenhill and both sides were full strength in the front row.
Yes, Ulster were poor yesterday, but they were still 10 points up during the final play of the game. In the past two games in Europe they've had to cut their cloth to suit what they were facing and they did it very well - because they won.
Clermont certainly weren't operating at a different level from Ulster when they played them in the pool - it was one win each from two very even games.
And knock-ons aren't bad luck - they're poor play.
Just a perception, but it seems to me the amount of booing by Ulster supporters is way beyond the norm for rugby (with Leinster second, but by a good bit). Just about every decision, right or wrong, against their team is booed. And, for the first time ever, I saw a rugby player coming on as a sub for the opposition being booed because he was formerly an Ulster player. Is it the siege mentality or what?
Quote from: Hardy on April 29, 2012, 02:20:46 PM
Just a perception, but it seems to me the amount of booing by Ulster supporters is way beyond the norm for rugby (with Leinster second, but by a good bit). Just about every decision, right or wrong, against their team is booed. And, for the first time ever, I saw a rugby player coming on as a sub for the opposition being booed because he was formerly an Ulster player. Is it the siege mentality or what?
Partitionist attitude. Are you Billy Sheehan in disguise?
Some game. Shocking drop by Fofana at the end!
Leinster lucky to get away there.
Clermont lost the game moreso than Leinster winning it - great excitement all the same.
Clermont will be kicking themselves and Fofana might get the same.
Quote from: trileacman on April 29, 2012, 03:59:35 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 29, 2012, 02:20:46 PM
Just a perception, but it seems to me the amount of booing by Ulster supporters is way beyond the norm for rugby (with Leinster second, but by a good bit). Just about every decision, right or wrong, against their team is booed. And, for the first time ever, I saw a rugby player coming on as a sub for the opposition being booed because he was formerly an Ulster player. Is it the siege mentality or what?
Partitionist attitude. Are you Billy Sheehan in disguise?
How can it be partitionist sure there are 3 ROI counties part of Ulster.
Quote from: Gazzler on April 29, 2012, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 29, 2012, 03:59:35 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 29, 2012, 02:20:46 PM
Just a perception, but it seems to me the amount of booing by Ulster supporters is way beyond the norm for rugby (with Leinster second, but by a good bit). Just about every decision, right or wrong, against their team is booed. And, for the first time ever, I saw a rugby player coming on as a sub for the opposition being booed because he was formerly an Ulster player. Is it the siege mentality or what?
Partitionist attitude. Are you Billy Sheehan in disguise?
How can it be partitionist sure there are 3 ROI counties part of Ulster.
That one tripped Mr Sheehan up against Donegal on one occasion, did it not?
brilliant performance by leinster. nailbiting stuff at the end.
;D ;D
I hear the same excuse when there is booing at GAA matches..
Sure they couldn't be real GAA/Rugby fans they have to be soccer fans :D
Amazing the amount of none GAA/Rugby fans that actually go to these games.
Where would one pick up a couple of tickets for the final?
Quote from: Hardy on April 29, 2012, 02:20:46 PM
Just a perception, but it seems to me the amount of booing by Ulster supporters is way beyond the norm for rugby (with Leinster second, but by a good bit). Just about every decision, right or wrong, against their team is booed. And, for the first time ever, I saw a rugby player coming on as a sub for the opposition being booed because he was formerly an Ulster player. Is it the siege mentality or what?
Leinster wouldnt be anywhere near 2nd in the booing stakes, nor would Ulster be top.
Thomond Park is one of the most intimidating grounds a visiting team can play in or a ref can ref in.
The wall of silence for kickers gets the most coverage, but opposition hookers can get a torrid time when throwing in, and if a ref gives what looks like a bad call against the redmen, then there'll be an enormous cacophony of boos.
But all the Irish teams are in the halpenny place when it comes to booing compared to the French club sides. There's absolutely no comparison. Its part of the game over there. They don't mean any disrespect, they just try and make it as hard as possible for the opposition players!
Interesting interview with Rory Best on Radio Ulster this morning when he said that winning with Ulster meant more to him than winning with Ireland
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 30, 2012, 05:11:17 PM
Interesting interview with Rory Best on Radio Ulster this morning when he said that winning with Ulster meant more to him than winning with Ireland
Seems fair enough. I'd say most in the GAA would cherish winning more with their club than their county to draw a parallel.
QuoteRob Penney was today confirmed as Munster's new Head Coach
The 48 year old has been Head Coach of Canterbury since 2006, and last season took them to their fourth straight ITM Cup national provincial title. He also has Super Rugby coaching experience with the Crusaders where he was assistant coach in 2005 when they won the Super 12 title and he has maintained his involvement with the Crusaders as Development Squad Coach.
A former Canterbury Academy Manager, Penney will coach the defending World Champion New Zealand Under 20 side during next month's IRB Junior World Championship in South Africa,and he is expected to arrive in Munster in mid July for the start of a two year contract subject to obtaining a valid work permit.
Anthony Foley will continue on as Forwards Coach while expected change in the rest of the management team will be finalised following consultation with the new Head Coach.
Commenting on the appointment Munster CEO Garrett Fitzgerald said, " We conducted a thorough search to find a replacement for Tony McGahan and were delighted with the calibre of the candidates. Rob Penney's record speaks for itself and we look forward to welcoming him to Munster."
Penney leaves Canterbury with reluctant best wishes according to Canterbury Rugby Football Union CEO Hamish Riach, "Rob has been a great servant for Canterbury rugby. We are very sorry to lose a talented coach, but this is a fantastic opportunity for him and we wish him all the best."
Very exciting appointment by Munster Rugby - great for Ireland as well.
http://www.ryanair.com/ie/notices/gops/120508-newskiesclosure-en-GB (http://www.ryanair.com/ie/notices/gops/120508-newskiesclosure-en-GB)
Be careful if travelling over this weekend and check in early!!
Quote from: Declan on May 14, 2012, 02:15:53 PM
http://www.ryanair.com/ie/notices/gops/120508-newskiesclosure-en-GB (http://www.ryanair.com/ie/notices/gops/120508-newskiesclosure-en-GB)
Be careful if travelling over this weekend and check in early!!
Feck good man, I'll have to get that sorted tomorrow so
Who is heading over to the game?
I hear next year's final is in the Aviva. Hopefully we'll have another All-Ireland.
But what is the Amlin Challenge Cup?
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/0514/320890-rds-will-host-amlin-challenge-final/
The RDS will host the 2013 Amlin Challenge Cup final, it has been confirmed.
The final will take place on Friday 17 May 2013 with the Heineken Cup showpiece going ahead the following day at the Aviva Stadium.
It will be the first time that the RDS has hosted the decider.
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 14, 2012, 05:15:47 PM
I hear next year's final is in the Aviva. Hopefully we'll have another All-Ireland.
But what is the Amlin Challenge Cup?
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/0514/320890-rds-will-host-amlin-challenge-final/
The RDS will host the 2013 Amlin Challenge Cup final, it has been confirmed.
The final will take place on Friday 17 May 2013 with the Heineken Cup showpiece going ahead the following day at the Aviva Stadium.
It will be the first time that the RDS has hosted the decider.
Secondary competition run by ERC... the 9th and 10th placed teams in the Heinken Cup get thrown into the Quarter stages to meet the 6 group winners
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 14, 2012, 04:51:23 PM
Who is heading over to the game?
I shall be the independent adjudicator from Connacht.
Flight over on Friday evening and back at 8am from Stansted on Sunday morning..... 8) No bags, just a passport, toothbrush and match tickets...the essentials.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 14, 2012, 04:51:23 PM
Who is heading over to the game?
going Friday afternoon - sunday afternoon. 4th in 5 years. Saw a Munster and 2 Leinster victories so far so another Irish victory guaranteed. My first AI Final in 19 years !
Ferris, Pienaar, Kearney, Sexton & Wilkinson up for European Player of the Year!!
A toss up between Ferris and Kearney imo.
Pienaar or Kearney I'd have said.
Very muted signs of the game here in Dublin at the moment. Only seen the one house (Clonskeagh) with a Leinster flag flying. The odd (very) car with a flag and that's it.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 15, 2012, 04:46:23 PM
Pienaar or Kearney I'd have said.
Kearney is in the form of his life but IMO Ulster wouldn't have left the pool stages without Pienaar in the side, without doubt he is the best scrum-half in the world by a considerable margin.
Don't care who wins,won't even be watching but will this come back to bite Leinster on the ass...?
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m266/laoislad/Leinster.jpg)
Quote from: laoislad on May 15, 2012, 06:40:21 PM
Don't care who wins,won't even be watching but will this come back to bite Leinster on the ass...?
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m266/laoislad/Leinster.jpg)
come on leinster beat the unionists
Being an Ulsterman :o and having watched Ulster this year a few times at Ravenhill I'll be cheering on the boys, they have a decent chance and the +8 they are offering seems generous, but if Leinster turn on the magic it could be over at halftime.
Lawseed, have a bitta wit please
Headin over sat morning back Sunday afternoon, can't wait.
SUFTUM!
Liverpool boat over Friday evening, back Sunday via Cairnryan. Long journey, but hopefully it'll be worth it.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2012, 09:35:59 PM
Being an Ulsterman :o and having watched Ulster this year a few times at Ravenhill I'll be cheering on the boys, they have a decent chance and the +8 they are offering seems generous, but if Leinster turn on the magic it could be over at halftime.
Lawseed, have a bitta wit please
Traitor.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 15, 2012, 10:43:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2012, 09:35:59 PM
Being an Ulsterman :o and having watched Ulster this year a few times at Ravenhill I'll be cheering on the boys, they have a decent chance and the +8 they are offering seems generous, but if Leinster turn on the magic it could be over at halftime.
Lawseed, have a bitta wit please
Traitor.
Who Lawnseed? Yeah i thought so myself
Kind of a difficult one to call on this one, it kind of who I would least mind to see win it really, the Ravenhill elite or the D4 elite.
Its one to ponder over. But maybe after the treatment of their coach Ulsters luck will finally run out.
What TV channels are showing this live? Is it available free to view?
Quote from: Sandino on May 17, 2012, 02:12:11 PM
What TV channels are showing this live? Is it available free to view?
Sky Sports 3, "live and exclusive".
Highlights in RTE that night.
Quote from: Hound on May 17, 2012, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: Sandino on May 17, 2012, 02:12:11 PM
What TV channels are showing this live? Is it available free to view?
Sky Sports 3, "live and exclusive".
Highlights in RTE that night.
You sure about that?? Thought TG4 have exclusive Heineken highlights.
TG4 at 22:00 on Saturday night.
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on May 17, 2012, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 17, 2012, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: Sandino on May 17, 2012, 02:12:11 PM
What TV channels are showing this live? Is it available free to view?
Sky Sports 3, "live and exclusive".
Highlights in RTE that night.
You sure about that?? Thought TG4 have exclusive Heineken highlights.
Jayz, didnt realise that.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2012, 11:11:24 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 15, 2012, 10:43:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2012, 09:35:59 PM
Being an Ulsterman :o and having watched Ulster this year a few times at Ravenhill I'll be cheering on the boys, they have a decent chance and the +8 they are offering seems generous, but if Leinster turn on the magic it could be over at halftime.
Lawseed, have a bitta wit please
Traitor.
Who Lawnseed? Yeah i thought so myself
will you be flying your 'ulster banner' milltown
Very interesting peice on radio Ulster this morning interviewing members of Rugby clubs in Monaghan and Cavan as to where their allegiance lay , they were all backing Ulster on Sunday but one said there would be a few from Monaghan Rugby club who would have support Munster if they played Ulster, when asked why " Well, I went to Thomond Park for Ulster versus Munster, and when you see guys carrying the Northern Ireland soccer flag to a game, it doesn't enthuse you to follow it,"
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on May 18, 2012, 01:53:36 PM
Very interesting peice on radio Ulster this morning interviewing members of Rugby clubs in Monaghan and Cavan as to where their allegiance lay , they were all backing Ulster on Sunday but one said there would be a few from Monaghan Rugby club who would have support Munster if they played Ulster, when asked why " Well, I went to Thomond Park for Ulster versus Munster, and when you see guys carrying the Northern Ireland soccer flag to a game, it doesn't enthuse you to follow it,"
Eunan McConville obviously is unfamilair with a Monaghan accent!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18111089
Heineken Cup final: Will Cavan and Monaghan rugby fans support Ulster?By Eunan McConville BBC News
It is the first time the Heineken Cup final has been an all-Ireland affair, with Ulster taking on neighbours and reigning champions Leinster on Saturday. While most of the Ulster support in Twickenham may come from Northern Ireland, there will be plenty of rugby people from the Republic of Ireland lending their voices to the choruses of 'Stand Up for the Ulster Men'. The Ulster Rugby branch administers the game throughout the whole province of Ulster - including Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan. There are nine clubs in the Republic affiliated to the Ulster branch. Just across the border, not far from Armagh city is the town of Monaghan - home to the only rugby club in the county. It was here that I met club stalwarts John Taylor and Seamus O'Neill.
Mr Taylor is an enthusiastic Ulster supporter. In fact, he is Monaghan RFC's representative to the Ulster Branch, and there is no doubt where his loyalties will lie. "Being in Monaghan, we're all part of Ulster and we go down and support Ulster as much as possible," he says. "Then there's the fact that Tommy Bowe is coming back home which is going to make it even better for us. We'll definitely be down in Ravenhill to watch Tommy playing."
I ask him if he's ever been mistaken for a Leinster supporter in Ravenhill because of his accent. With a wry smile, he is quick to correct me. "Ah no. Monaghan accent? Get away. It's different to a Leinster accent totally... I don't think so. We fit in very well." Mr O'Neill is a bit more circumspect when I ask him if Ulster would be his first choice when it comes to Irish provinces. "It depends who they're playing," he explains. In short, he says he and a few others in Monaghan RFC would support Munster first and foremost, then Ulster after that. "But on Saturday I'll be nailing my colours firmly to the mast and I'll be supporting Ulster against Leinster," he says.
So why does Ulster not feature as his favoured team? "Well, I went to Thomond Park for Ulster versus Munster, and when you see guys carrying the Northern Ireland soccer flag to a game, it doesn't enthuse you to follow it," he added. "But we do feel welcome at Ravenhill. There's absolutely no problem there and we're taken in with open hands there. We're perceived as Ulstermen in that respect."
Further west along the road lies Cavan town. Geographically, it's closer to Leinster Rugby's headquarters in Dublin than it is to Belfast and Ravenhill. County Cavan RFC lies in the middle of Gaelic football country and the oval ball code is certainly seen as a minority sport. But the people I meet at the club are as passionate about their rugby as anyone who will be in Twickenham. In some ways, Cavan RFC have to be - after all, at times they have to travel for four hours just to play a game. The incoming club president, Frank Walls, explains that in the 1970s Cavan RFC competed in the Leinster branch of the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU). "The club was reformed in 1977 and we still have members in the club who have won both the Towns Cup in Leinster, and leagues and cups in Ulster," he says. "Originally, when the club was reformed, the games in Leinster were played on a Sunday and because of the Troubles, the lads found it easier to travel and play in Leinster. "Until, that is, they made the mistake of going down and winning the Towns Cup and then Leinster said, 'bye bye'. "So we have now since 1978 been playing in Ulster, with a lot of success and a lot of great experiences." But as far as Mr Walls is concerned, that is ancient history and he says he has no split loyalties. "Without question, we'll be supporting Ulster," he says. Ladies team member Caroline O'Reilly is just as adamant about Cavan's support for Brian McLaughlin's men. She has even worn the white Ulster jersey herself through her involvement in the Ulster ladies development squad. "As a team, we'd be Ulster supporters all the way," she says. "We had a bit of training last night and I said to the girls, 'so girls are we representing Ulster at the weekend?' "And they said, definitely, SUFTUM (Stand Up For The Ulster Men) all the way. "We're all for Ulster, on the ladies team anyway."
Come on Ulster.
I would have a great love of Munster and Kerry in particular - Gaelic football at its best, holidays, greyhound and horse racing and all the stuff I am into. And what Irish sportsman couldnt love the way Munster lit the torch for Irish rugby over the last decade.
So when they recently faced Ulster in Thomond I had a bit of a tough choice to make.
I didnt have as much difficulty making that choice as I thought. Munster men honestly believe they are the Kingdom, and rule the roost in all aspects of Irish sporting life. The best way to earn their respect is to beat them now and again (ala Tyrone) to get a measure of respect from them. The thought of an Ulster team turning them over at fortress Thomond would have been unthinkable to most of them. So that was my own motivation for cheering Ulster on against them.
The fact that forward thinking Ulster rugby giants such as Willie Anderson and Trevor Ringland - and in particular the way they stood up squarly behind the GAA at a time when it would have been easier to look the other way - fortified my opinion that it was time to get behind our own province, in spite of some polar political views.
I think Ulster Gaa may have missed a trick here. I think we should have got out there a lot more publicly in our support for the Ulster team. At least those of the view that sports and politics shouldnt ever be allowed to mix, and those also of a view that there is still work to be done to continue building bridges in society.
The Harlequins/St Bridgids lead is another example of the forward thinking that is an example to all that there is plenty of genuine support in the rugby Community from those amongst them who are big enough to embrace Gaelic Games as a progressive influence in our times.
And as for the small percentage of Ulster supporters who produce their traditional Ulster flag, in a way that may cause offence - well I think maybe we should be big enough and secure enough in our own skins as not to allow this to become any sort of issue. There are still a few out there a bit slow in getting the message.
Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2012, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on May 18, 2012, 01:53:36 PM
Very interesting peice on radio Ulster this morning interviewing members of Rugby clubs in Monaghan and Cavan as to where their allegiance lay , they were all backing Ulster on Sunday but one said there would be a few from Monaghan Rugby club who would have support Munster if they played Ulster, when asked why " Well, I went to Thomond Park for Ulster versus Munster, and when you see guys carrying the Northern Ireland soccer flag to a game, it doesn't enthuse you to follow it,"
Eunan McConville obviously is unfamilair with a Monaghan accent!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18111089
Heineken Cup final: Will Cavan and Monaghan rugby fans support Ulster?
By Eunan McConville BBC News
It is the first time the Heineken Cup final has been an all-Ireland affair, with Ulster taking on neighbours and reigning champions Leinster on Saturday. While most of the Ulster support in Twickenham may come from Northern Ireland, there will be plenty of rugby people from the Republic of Ireland lending their voices to the choruses of 'Stand Up for the Ulster Men'. The Ulster Rugby branch administers the game throughout the whole province of Ulster - including Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan. There are nine clubs in the Republic affiliated to the Ulster branch. Just across the border, not far from Armagh city is the town of Monaghan - home to the only rugby club in the county. It was here that I met club stalwarts John Taylor and Seamus O'Neill.
Mr Taylor is an enthusiastic Ulster supporter. In fact, he is Monaghan RFC's representative to the Ulster Branch, and there is no doubt where his loyalties will lie. "Being in Monaghan, we're all part of Ulster and we go down and support Ulster as much as possible," he says. "Then there's the fact that Tommy Bowe is coming back home which is going to make it even better for us. We'll definitely be down in Ravenhill to watch Tommy playing." I ask him if he's ever been mistaken for a Leinster supporter in Ravenhill because of his accent. With a wry smile, he is quick to correct me. "Ah no. Monaghan accent? Get away. It's different to a Leinster accent totally... I don't think so. We fit in very well."
Mr O'Neill is a bit more circumspect when I ask him if Ulster would be his first choice when it comes to Irish provinces. "It depends who they're playing," he explains. In short, he says he and a few others in Monaghan RFC would support Munster first and foremost, then Ulster after that. "But on Saturday I'll be nailing my colours firmly to the mast and I'll be supporting Ulster against Leinster," he says. So why does Ulster not feature as his favoured team? "Well, I went to Thomond Park for Ulster versus Munster, and when you see guys carrying the Northern Ireland soccer flag to a game, it doesn't enthuse you to follow it," he added. "But we do feel welcome at Ravenhill. There's absolutely no problem there and we're taken in with open hands there. We're perceived as Ulstermen in that respect."
Further west along the road lies Cavan town. Geographically, it's closer to Leinster Rugby's headquarters in Dublin than it is to Belfast and Ravenhill. County Cavan RFC lies in the middle of Gaelic football country and the oval ball code is certainly seen as a minority sport. But the people I meet at the club are as passionate about their rugby as anyone who will be in Twickenham. In some ways, Cavan RFC have to be - after all, at times they have to travel for four hours just to play a game. The incoming club president, Frank Walls, explains that in the 1970s Cavan RFC competed in the Leinster branch of the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU). "The club was reformed in 1977 and we still have members in the club who have won both the Towns Cup in Leinster, and leagues and cups in Ulster," he says. "Originally, when the club was reformed, the games in Leinster were played on a Sunday and because of the Troubles, the lads found it easier to travel and play in Leinster. "Until, that is, they made the mistake of going down and winning the Towns Cup and then Leinster said, 'bye bye'. "So we have now since 1978 been playing in Ulster, with a lot of success and a lot of great experiences." But as far as Mr Walls is concerned, that is ancient history and he says he has no split loyalties. "Without question, we'll be supporting Ulster," he says. Ladies team member Caroline O'Reilly is just as adamant about Cavan's support for Brian McLaughlin's men. She has even worn the white Ulster jersey herself through her involvement in the Ulster ladies development squad. "As a team, we'd be Ulster supporters all the way," she says. "We had a bit of training last night and I said to the girls, 'so girls are we representing Ulster at the weekend?' "And they said, definitely, SUFTUM (Stand Up For The Ulster Men) all the way. "We're all for Ulster, on the ladies team anyway."
So he supported munster because of the ni soccer flags the fans brought to the game, Some logic there, if he sees the same fans with the same flags will he support Leinster this weekend. Oh it must only counts when there playing munster as he said hes definitly supporting Ulster this weekend.. ::)
Leinster 30 Ulster 20
Ulster have a chance if they get on top up front and take their chances. Leinster just have a lot more quality overall.
Any streams?
First row sports and atdhe should all have it.
I'm watching this on a foreign stream and don't have the benefit of analysts - but are Ulster not getting well and truly hanged by this ref?
Quote from: thewobbler on May 19, 2012, 06:13:04 PM
I'm watching this on a foreign stream and don't have the benefit of analysts - but are Ulster not getting well and truly hanged by this ref?
Nah they are getting battered because they're shit. Hen's have come to roost for Ulster, probably wouldn't be in the top 4 teams in Europe.
Leinster the greatest team in Europe ever. Fair play to them Ulster humbled.
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2012, 06:55:49 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 19, 2012, 06:13:04 PM
I'm watching this on a foreign stream and don't have the benefit of analysts - but are Ulster not getting well and truly hanged by this ref?
Nah they are getting battered because they're shit. Hen's have come to roost for Ulster, probably wouldn't be in the top 4 teams in Europe.
Did it not just go pretty according to plan?
Simply awesome....
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 19, 2012, 06:59:55 PM
Leinster the greatest team in Europe ever. Fair play to them Ulster humbled.
Tbh in the Cheika era I thought they were poor enough and I think the final they won against Leicster was a cheap enough final, as Dunphy would say not a stellar year. Now though they have evolved into one of the best teams around, making Ireland's poor form of late all the more annoying. Would love to see them go up against Toulouse at their prime or Munster with Tipoki/Mafi/Howlett going through the gears.
simply brilliant by leinster. what a team.
the unionist threat has been vanquished. ;) fairly one sided game. radio "ulster" will be worth listening to on monday.
Quote from: lawnseed on May 19, 2012, 07:58:20 PM
the unionist threat has been vanquished. ;) fairly one sided game. radio "ulster" will be worth listening to on monday.
If you are from Ulster but don't support them does that not make you a partitionist?
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2012, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 19, 2012, 07:58:20 PM
the unionist threat has been vanquished. ;) fairly one sided game. radio "ulster" will be worth listening to on monday.
If you are from Ulster but don't support them does that not make you a partitionist?
I think it's just good old fashioned sectarianism. I think its a huge shame that an Ulsterman would take joy in Ulster losing.
Congratulations to Leinster, 3 titles in 4 years is some achievement
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 19, 2012, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2012, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 19, 2012, 07:58:20 PM
the unionist threat has been vanquished. ;) fairly one sided game. radio "ulster" will be worth listening to on monday.
If you are from Ulster but don't support them does that not make you a partitionist?
I think it's just good old fashioned sectarianism. I think its a huge shame that an Ulsterman would take joy in Ulster losing.
we'll all get the chance to SUFTUM today and there wont be a loyalist flag in sight cavan v donegal
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 19, 2012, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2012, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 19, 2012, 07:58:20 PM
the unionist threat has been vanquished. ;) fairly one sided game. radio "ulster" will be worth listening to on monday.
If you are from Ulster but don't support them does that not make you a partitionist?
I think it's just good old fashioned sectarianism. I think its a huge shame that an Ulsterman would take joy in Ulster losing.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 19, 2012, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2012, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 19, 2012, 07:58:20 PM
the unionist threat has been vanquished. ;) fairly one sided game. radio "ulster" will be worth listening to on monday.
If you are from Ulster but don't support them does that not make you a partitionist?
I think it's just good old fashioned sectarianism. I think its a huge shame that an Ulsterman would take joy in Ulster losing.
sure is! c'mon leinster!!!!!!
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
All this competitive pro rugby stuff is relatively new. Fans don't know who to follow. A lot of Leinster people followed Munster when they were on top. There was no big match atmosphere in Dublin for this game. A lot of the fans would have been in Twickenham. Then it is all on sky sports with highlights on TG4,a lot of people won't get to see any of the game.
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
Exactly, I support Munster because around the time I started following rugby they were going through some dark days in semi's and H cup finals and I liked the history and tradition of the club. Connaught and Ulster were shit and to me Leinster seemed like a load of pampered D4 pricks who were talented but didn't have the balls to step up and win. In the end Ulster was an easy choice (especially because they started winning stuff shortly after). ;)
As you said why do you have to publicly blast Ulster just because they're mostly prods? If some orange man came on here and blasted Tyrone, Armagh or Derry and said that he is supporting Kerry or Dublin because the local team is full of taigs there'd be a holy war on here. Who was that Unionist who went to support Loughgiel in the club final? He had the right attitude and even if you do have reservations about supporting Ulster then keep them to yourself. The Ulster branch of the IRFU have done a decent job of trying to include Catholics and lose the trappings so the only major fault you could find with them is that they have alot of prods about the place.
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
I never have supported Ulster SE but religion has nothing to do with it, When i first starting following Rugby (20+ years ago) , with both them and Leinster I have always felt that you had to have went the right middle class school to feel included, I have always supported Munster as I had a " perception" ( rightly or wrongly?) that in certain parts of Munster anyway it was more of an inclusive game open to all classes., (whilst saying this I know that the Ulster Branch is doing fantastic work in reaching out to schools outside its traditional catchment area , probably the same in Leinster as well).I honestly didnt care who won yesterday , was just looking to see a good game of Rugby
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 20, 2012, 12:05:58 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 19, 2012, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2012, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 19, 2012, 07:58:20 PM
the unionist threat has been vanquished. ;) fairly one sided game. radio "ulster" will be worth listening to on monday.
If you are from Ulster but don't support them does that not make you a partitionist?
I think it's just good old fashioned sectarianism. I think its a huge shame that an Ulsterman would take joy in Ulster losing.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 19, 2012, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 19, 2012, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 19, 2012, 07:58:20 PM
the unionist threat has been vanquished. ;) fairly one sided game. radio "ulster" will be worth listening to on monday.
If you are from Ulster but don't support them does that not make you a partitionist?
I think it's just good old fashioned sectarianism. I think its a huge shame that an Ulsterman would take joy in Ulster losing.
sure is! c'mon leinster!!!!!!
At least your being honest.
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
Fixed that for you.
Where is this Connaught place some of you speak of? There is a province called Connacht.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 20, 2012, 04:34:15 PM
Where is this Connaught place some of you speak of? There is a province called Connacht.
And does anyone care?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 20, 2012, 04:34:15 PM
Where is this Connaught place some of you speak of? There is a province called Connacht.
Think it's a London Hotel.
Would the sectarian point scorers please f**k off to another thread? There's plenty to choose from.
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2012, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
Exactly, I support Munster because around the time I started following rugby they were going through some dark days in semi's and H cup finals and I liked the history and tradition of the club. Connaught and Ulster were shit and to me Leinster seemed like a load of pampered D4 pricks who were talented but didn't have the balls to step up and win. In the end Ulster was an easy choice (especially because they started winning stuff shortly after). ;)
As you said why do you have to publicly blast Ulster just because they're mostly prods? If some orange man came on here and blasted Tyrone, Armagh or Derry and said that he is supporting Kerry or Dublin because the local team is full of taigs there'd be a holy war on here. Who was that Unionist who went to support Loughgiel in the club final? He had the right attitude and even if you do have reservations about supporting Ulster then keep them to yourself. The Ulster branch of the IRFU have done a decent job of trying to include Catholics and lose the trappings so the only major fault you could find with them is that they have alot of prods about the place.
You support Munster in the same way Irish folk support Man Utd or Liverpool, because they are, of they were successful. And those 'dark days' of heineken cup semi's and finals!
Quote from: J OGorman on May 20, 2012, 07:37:53 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2012, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
Exactly, I support Munster because around the time I started following rugby they were going through some dark days in semi's and H cup finals and I liked the history and tradition of the club. Connaught and Ulster were shit and to me Leinster seemed like a load of pampered D4 pricks who were talented but didn't have the balls to step up and win. In the end Ulster was an easy choice (especially because they started winning stuff shortly after). ;)
As you said why do you have to publicly blast Ulster just because they're mostly prods? If some orange man came on here and blasted Tyrone, Armagh or Derry and said that he is supporting Kerry or Dublin because the local team is full of taigs there'd be a holy war on here. Who was that Unionist who went to support Loughgiel in the club final? He had the right attitude and even if you do have reservations about supporting Ulster then keep them to yourself. The Ulster branch of the IRFU have done a decent job of trying to include Catholics and lose the trappings so the only major fault you could find with them is that they have alot of prods about the place.
You support Munster in the same way Irish folk support Man Utd or Liverpool, because they are, of they were successful. And those 'dark days' of heineken cup semi's and finals!
Ah I don't know about that, at the time Leinster were the form team, they had the bigger names BOD/Horgan/Contemponi and by far they played a more exciting brand of rugby. For example going to Toulouse and tearing them up by running the length of the pitch was a more notable achievement than anything Munster had done before. Munster were the nearly men of Irish Rugby, it would have been like supporting Mayo because "they were successful".
Leinster were in a different league to Ulster. Top class stuff. Felt a bit sorry for that young outhalf. Not the best place to have a mare of a game
Well done Leinster, fantastic achievement to win back to back titles, and their third in 4 years. Exceptional team, and an exceptional set up. They are the standard bearer for European Rugby, not just for Irish Rugby, and it's up to everyone else, including Munster to try and get themselves in a position to challenge.
Quote from: J OGorman on May 20, 2012, 07:37:53 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2012, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
Exactly, I support Munster because around the time I started following rugby they were going through some dark days in semi's and H cup finals and I liked the history and tradition of the club. Connaught and Ulster were shit and to me Leinster seemed like a load of pampered D4 pricks who were talented but didn't have the balls to step up and win. In the end Ulster was an easy choice (especially because they started winning stuff shortly after). ;)
As you said why do you have to publicly blast Ulster just because they're mostly prods? If some orange man came on here and blasted Tyrone, Armagh or Derry and said that he is supporting Kerry or Dublin because the local team is full of taigs there'd be a holy war on here. Who was that Unionist who went to support Loughgiel in the club final? He had the right attitude and even if you do have reservations about supporting Ulster then keep them to yourself. The Ulster branch of the IRFU have done a decent job of trying to include Catholics and lose the trappings so the only major fault you could find with them is that they have alot of prods about the place.
You support Munster in the same way Irish folk support Man Utd or Liverpool, because they are, of they were successful. And those 'dark days' of heineken cup semi's and finals!
As a Munster supporting Ulsterman I must thank this poster for letting me know why I took this course of action ::) :o .
Quote from: bcarrier on May 21, 2012, 09:28:24 AM
Quote from: J OGorman on May 20, 2012, 07:37:53 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2012, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
Exactly, I support Munster because around the time I started following rugby they were going through some dark days in semi's and H cup finals and I liked the history and tradition of the club. Connaught and Ulster were shit and to me Leinster seemed like a load of pampered D4 pricks who were talented but didn't have the balls to step up and win. In the end Ulster was an easy choice (especially because they started winning stuff shortly after). ;)
As you said why do you have to publicly blast Ulster just because they're mostly prods? If some orange man came on here and blasted Tyrone, Armagh or Derry and said that he is supporting Kerry or Dublin because the local team is full of taigs there'd be a holy war on here. Who was that Unionist who went to support Loughgiel in the club final? He had the right attitude and even if you do have reservations about supporting Ulster then keep them to yourself. The Ulster branch of the IRFU have done a decent job of trying to include Catholics and lose the trappings so the only major fault you could find with them is that they have alot of prods about the place.
You support Munster in the same way Irish folk support Man Utd or Liverpool, because they are, of they were successful. And those 'dark days' of heineken cup semi's and finals!
As a Munster supporting Ulsterman I must thank this poster for letting me know why I took this course of action ::) :o .
Why do you support them, if Munster weren't constantly on RTE with their great romantic journey and heart breaking defeats with George Hook constantly saying they were going to lose and instead they were getting knocked out in the group stages not a hope in hell you would have supported them. People liked the romance and then the success, some people might even call it bandwagoning...
In all fairness Leinster never looked liked losing that game on Saturday. Their defence was immense and Dean Ryan at half time pointed out that Leinster concede very few tries and I could stand corrected, but I think he said that they'd not conceded a try in the first 60 minutes of any HC games this season.
Young Jackson had a poor game and made some basic errors like kicking to touch after the ball had been carried back into the 22, I think Terblance did the same thing. Not good for a struggling pack.
Is that the end of the road for Cullen?
Quote from: bcarrier on May 21, 2012, 09:28:24 AM
Quote from: J OGorman on May 20, 2012, 07:37:53 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2012, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
Exactly, I support Munster because around the time I started following rugby they were going through some dark days in semi's and H cup finals and I liked the history and tradition of the club. Connaught and Ulster were shit and to me Leinster seemed like a load of pampered D4 pricks who were talented but didn't have the balls to step up and win. In the end Ulster was an easy choice (especially because they started winning stuff shortly after). ;)
As you said why do you have to publicly blast Ulster just because they're mostly prods? If some orange man came on here and blasted Tyrone, Armagh or Derry and said that he is supporting Kerry or Dublin because the local team is full of taigs there'd be a holy war on here. Who was that Unionist who went to support Loughgiel in the club final? He had the right attitude and even if you do have reservations about supporting Ulster then keep them to yourself. The Ulster branch of the IRFU have done a decent job of trying to include Catholics and lose the trappings so the only major fault you could find with them is that they have alot of prods about the place.
You support Munster in the same way Irish folk support Man Utd or Liverpool, because they are, of they were successful. And those 'dark days' of heineken cup semi's and finals!
As a Munster supporting Ulsterman I must thank this poster for letting me know why I took this course of action ::) :o .
mon lad. If Munster were pants you wouldnt look near them. Like all rugby supporters , or most, I will root for whatever Irish team is playing, Munster, whoever. So you are from the North, and Munster is your team? I'd be affronted. go get 'em! Connaught are looking new fans, maybe throw you lot in with them next year. ( i hear they have a proud history of battering the English landowners in the front row and a few new signings could be the catalyst to great things)
2 Irish teams in the HC final played infront of the highest attendance ever, amazing stuff. O'Brien was on another planet on Saturday. O'Driscoll is something else. Rarely fails to deliver
Quote from: J OGorman on May 21, 2012, 11:24:28 AM
Quote from: bcarrier on May 21, 2012, 09:28:24 AM
Quote from: J OGorman on May 20, 2012, 07:37:53 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2012, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
Exactly, I support Munster because around the time I started following rugby they were going through some dark days in semi's and H cup finals and I liked the history and tradition of the club. Connaught and Ulster were shit and to me Leinster seemed like a load of pampered D4 pricks who were talented but didn't have the balls to step up and win. In the end Ulster was an easy choice (especially because they started winning stuff shortly after). ;)
As you said why do you have to publicly blast Ulster just because they're mostly prods? If some orange man came on here and blasted Tyrone, Armagh or Derry and said that he is supporting Kerry or Dublin because the local team is full of taigs there'd be a holy war on here. Who was that Unionist who went to support Loughgiel in the club final? He had the right attitude and even if you do have reservations about supporting Ulster then keep them to yourself. The Ulster branch of the IRFU have done a decent job of trying to include Catholics and lose the trappings so the only major fault you could find with them is that they have alot of prods about the place.
You support Munster in the same way Irish folk support Man Utd or Liverpool, because they are, of they were successful. And those 'dark days' of heineken cup semi's and finals!
As a Munster supporting Ulsterman I must thank this poster for letting me know why I took this course of action ::) :o .
mon lad. If Munster were pants you wouldnt look near them. Like all rugby supporters , or most, I will root for whatever Irish team is playing, Munster, whoever. So you are from the North, and Munster is your team? I'd be affronted. go get 'em! Connaught Connacht are looking new fans, maybe throw you lot in with them next year. ( i hear they have a proud history of battering the English landowners in the front row and a few new signings could be the catalyst to great things)
2 Irish teams in the HC final played infront of the highest attendance ever, amazing stuff. O'Brien was on another planet on Saturday. O'Driscoll is something else. Rarely fails to deliver
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2012, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2012, 12:11:07 PM
Going on the past I can see why some Nationalists in Ulster have supported Leinster as Ulster were heavily associated with Unionism at the beginning of the Proffessional era and were cack for a long time. For that reason I don't mind if someone has supported Leinster and have stayed with them.
I don't understand the mentality of people who have little or no interest in Rugby wanting to see Ulster getting beat. It's your province and all that Unionist crap has basically disappeared from the game so why do you feel the need to blast a team trying to be the best in Europe. The sectarianism that exists around the Ulster Rugby team is ridiculous!!
Exactly, I support Munster because around the time I started following rugby they were going through some dark days in semi's and H cup finals and I liked the history and tradition of the club. Connaught and Ulster were shit and to me Leinster seemed like a load of pampered D4 pricks who were talented but didn't have the balls to step up and win. In the end Ulster was an easy choice (especially because they started winning stuff shortly after). ;)
As you said why do you have to publicly blast Ulster just because they're mostly prods? If some orange man came on here and blasted Tyrone, Armagh or Derry and said that he is supporting Kerry or Dublin because the local team is full of taigs there'd be a holy war on here. Who was that Unionist who went to support Loughgiel in the club final? He had the right attitude and even if you do have reservations about supporting Ulster then keep them to yourself. The Ulster branch of the IRFU have done a decent job of trying to include Catholics and lose the trappings so the only major fault you could find with them is that they have alot of prods about the place.
Terblanche, Pienaar, Muller, Afoa, Court and Wannenburg were all born far enough to know little and to care less about our wee tribal squabbles. Tuohy and Fitzpatrick are English born, but it hardly sounds like they're from planter stock, do they? Gilroy's a former Gaelic footballer. Maybe the bigots on this board - you know who you are, Lawnseed - could at least start supporting Ulster for half a match, or half a season, given that only half the team seems to be made up of those dreadful Ulster prods?
For those that are too polite to ask the answer is,
Craig Gilroy, Paddy McAllister, Tommy Bowe and possibly Stephen Ferris. Also as the previous poster has pointed out Tuohy & Fitzpatrick by way of England.
Fantastic atmosphere at the ground - would have been unreal had it been close.
Lost count of the number of Ulster fans who offered congratulations to us after the match. A great bunch, a credit to their team.
Quote from: Feckitt on May 21, 2012, 06:03:43 PM
For those that are too polite to ask the answer is,
Craig Gilroy, Paddy McAllister, Tommy Bowe and possibly Stephen Ferris. Also as the previous poster has pointed out Tuohy & Fitzpatrick by way of England.
What's the question?
Quote from: Olaf on May 21, 2012, 07:13:24 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on May 21, 2012, 06:03:43 PM
For those that are too polite to ask the answer is,
Craig Gilroy, Paddy McAllister, Tommy Bowe and possibly Stephen Ferris. Also as the previous poster has pointed out Tuohy & Fitzpatrick by way of England.
What's the question?
What Ulster players might travel to Bundoran in July ?
Quote from: Olaf on May 21, 2012, 07:13:24 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on May 21, 2012, 06:03:43 PM
For those that are too polite to ask the answer is,
Craig Gilroy, Paddy McAllister, Tommy Bowe and possibly Stephen Ferris. Also as the previous poster has pointed out Tuohy & Fitzpatrick by way of England.
What's the question?
What Ulster players are avid readers of the Ireland's Own?
Quote from: Feckitt on May 21, 2012, 06:03:43 PM
For those that are too polite to ask the answer is,
Craig Gilroy, Paddy McAllister, Tommy Bowe and possibly Stephen Ferris. Also as the previous poster has pointed out Tuohy & Fitzpatrick by way of England.
Catholics at Royal School in Armagh? Really?!
enjoyed the match and the atmosphere but wont be in a hurry to get back to twickenham - great stadium ok, but nothing around it but houses. 15 minute walk to get to the first bar !
not a patch on murrayfield or millenium. roll on dublin 2013. havent been in Aviva before, but would imagine it would be more sociable in Ballsbridge !
Quote from: trileacman on May 21, 2012, 09:38:47 PM
Quote from: Olaf on May 21, 2012, 07:13:24 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on May 21, 2012, 06:03:43 PM
For those that are too polite to ask the answer is,
Craig Gilroy, Paddy McAllister, Tommy Bowe and possibly Stephen Ferris. Also as the previous poster has pointed out Tuohy & Fitzpatrick by way of England.
What's the question?
What Ulster players are avid readers of the Ireland's Own?
Ah ......but surely the correct answer is ................................Who Cares?
Not that it matters one jot to this particular poster and thousands of Ulster fans over the years... but the original poster was wrong re - McAllister and Ferris.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 21, 2012, 09:51:24 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on May 21, 2012, 06:03:43 PM
For those that are too polite to ask the answer is,
Craig Gilroy, Paddy McAllister, Tommy Bowe and possibly Stephen Ferris. Also as the previous poster has pointed out Tuohy & Fitzpatrick by way of England.
Catholics at Royal School in Armagh? Really?!
Now the sectarianism of some posters on here is on full unedifying display.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/0522/321934-leamy-to-retire-at-end-of-season/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/0522/321934-leamy-to-retire-at-end-of-season/)
Another good man forced out by injury
QuoteYou support Munster in the same way Irish folk support Man Utd or Liverpool, because they are, of they were successful. And those 'dark days' of heineken cup semi's and finals!
QuoteWhy do you support them, if Munster weren't constantly on RTE with their great romantic journey and heart breaking defeats with George Hook constantly saying they were going to lose and instead they were getting knocked out in the group stages not a hope in hell you would have supported them. People liked the romance and then the success, some people might even call it bandwagoning...
Sure what would be the point in explaining ...you both already know why I have chosen to support Munster. Some people might consider it arrogant presumption.
Quote from: bcarrier on May 22, 2012, 11:39:31 AM
QuoteYou support Munster in the same way Irish folk support Man Utd or Liverpool, because they are, of they were successful. And those 'dark days' of heineken cup semi's and finals!
QuoteWhy do you support them, if Munster weren't constantly on RTE with their great romantic journey and heart breaking defeats with George Hook constantly saying they were going to lose and instead they were getting knocked out in the group stages not a hope in hell you would have supported them. People liked the romance and then the success, some people might even call it bandwagoning...
Sure what would be the point in explaining ...you both already know why I have chosen to support Munster. Some people might consider it arrogant presumption.
Sure give it a try, enlighten us. To be honest I am fascinated by the support for professional rugby is this country when there was no history of it up until 15 years ago. Munster were the romantic story so people with no allegiance to the game started to follow them.
Even though I am from Leinster and am involved with Leinster Rugby, their fortunes have no emotional affect on me whereas the Kildare GAA rollercoaster of the last 5 years has left me an emotional wreck.
Surely you mean that Munster were the first to be successful Dinny? That's where the following came from, what does it say about our society that we are so easily manipulated by these big brands pushing rugby through those glowing boxes in the corner's of our rooms.
As Dinny said, the Munster story was pure theatre as well, so I'd imagine that captured the imagination a bit too. It's not just brand, there was all sorts of human failings and disappointments on show in that 'quest for the holy Grail'.
Now, it's just a rugby club with some great fans, and some shite ones.
Ulster Rugby have made great strides to make it a sport for all, gone are the days when it was posh prods at play, now it also includes posh taigs...Joking aside Ulster Rugby has tried to be inclusive and with the GAA is attempting to cross community barriers. True you see the few loyalists at games sporting the NI Soccer Flag as a man from Monaghan described it but most are there to support the team. I do not have the same emotional attachment to any of the Rubgy teams I would have to my club and county but when they play teams from outside Ireland you would naturally want them to win.
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 22, 2012, 01:55:21 PM
Ulster Rugby have made great strides to make it a sport for all, gone are the days when it was posh prods at play, now it also includes posh taigs...Joking aside Ulster Rugby has tried to be inclusive and with the GAA is attempting to cross community barriers. True you see the few loyalists at games sporting the NI Soccer Flag as a man from Monaghan described it but most are there to support the team. I do not have the same emotional attachment to any of the Rubgy teams I would have to my club and county but when they play teams from outside Ireland you would naturally want them to win.
I find it interesting that unionists are normally thought of as posh yet loyalists are perceived as working class.
Where does this myth originate?
Probably the wrong thread entirely for this.
QuoteMunster were the romantic story so people with no allegiance to the game started to follow them.
Also the Mick Galwey affect.
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 22, 2012, 02:27:08 PM
QuoteMunster were the romantic story so people with no allegiance to the game started to follow them.
Also the Mick Galwey affect.
What effect is that?
Good or bad?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 22, 2012, 12:15:52 PM
Quote from: bcarrier on May 22, 2012, 11:39:31 AM
QuoteYou support Munster in the same way Irish folk support Man Utd or Liverpool, because they are, of they were successful. And those 'dark days' of heineken cup semi's and finals!
QuoteWhy do you support them, if Munster weren't constantly on RTE with their great romantic journey and heart breaking defeats with George Hook constantly saying they were going to lose and instead they were getting knocked out in the group stages not a hope in hell you would have supported them. People liked the romance and then the success, some people might even call it bandwagoning...
Sure what would be the point in explaining ...you both already know why I have chosen to support Munster. Some people might consider it arrogant presumption.
Sure give it a try, enlighten us. To be honest I am fascinated by the support for professional rugby is this country when there was no history of it up until 15 years ago. Munster were the romantic story so people with no allegiance to the game started to follow them.
Even though I am from Leinster and am involved with Leinster Rugby, their fortunes have no emotional affect on me whereas the Kildare GAA rollercoaster of the last 5 years has left me an emotional wreck.
How could there be a history of professional rugby when the game was amateur until about 15 years ago?
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 22, 2012, 01:55:21 PM
Ulster Rugby have made great strides to make it a sport for all, gone are the days when it was posh prods at play, now it also includes posh taigs...Joking aside Ulster Rugby has tried to be inclusive and with the GAA is attempting to cross community barriers. True you see the few loyalists at games sporting the NI Soccer Flag as a man from Monaghan described it but most are there to support the team. I do not have the same emotional attachment to any of the Rubgy teams I would have to my club and county but when they play teams from outside Ireland you would naturally want them to win.
I know plenty of people who carry the NI flag to Ulster matches who wouldn't fit the term 'loyalist'.
Quote from: johnneycool on May 22, 2012, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 22, 2012, 01:55:21 PM
Ulster Rugby have made great strides to make it a sport for all, gone are the days when it was posh prods at play, now it also includes posh taigs...Joking aside Ulster Rugby has tried to be inclusive and with the GAA is attempting to cross community barriers. True you see the few loyalists at games sporting the NI Soccer Flag as a man from Monaghan described it but most are there to support the team. I do not have the same emotional attachment to any of the Rubgy teams I would have to my club and county but when they play teams from outside Ireland you would naturally want them to win.
I find it interesting that unionists are normally thought of as posh yet loyalists are perceived as working class.
Where does this myth originate?
Probably the wrong thread entirely for this.
The working class loyalist was most visible by doing the dirty work of the boys in the big houses.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 22, 2012, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 22, 2012, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 22, 2012, 01:55:21 PM
Ulster Rugby have made great strides to make it a sport for all, gone are the days when it was posh prods at play, now it also includes posh taigs...Joking aside Ulster Rugby has tried to be inclusive and with the GAA is attempting to cross community barriers. True you see the few loyalists at games sporting the NI Soccer Flag as a man from Monaghan described it but most are there to support the team. I do not have the same emotional attachment to any of the Rubgy teams I would have to my club and county but when they play teams from outside Ireland you would naturally want them to win.
I find it interesting that unionists are normally thought of as posh yet loyalists are perceived as working class.
Where does this myth originate?
Probably the wrong thread entirely for this.
The working class loyalist was most visible by doing the dirty work of the boys in the big houses.
Who's dirty work were Irish republicans doing then?
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 22, 2012, 09:01:32 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 22, 2012, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 22, 2012, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 22, 2012, 01:55:21 PM
Ulster Rugby have made great strides to make it a sport for all, gone are the days when it was posh prods at play, now it also includes posh taigs...Joking aside Ulster Rugby has tried to be inclusive and with the GAA is attempting to cross community barriers. True you see the few loyalists at games sporting the NI Soccer Flag as a man from Monaghan described it but most are there to support the team. I do not have the same emotional attachment to any of the Rubgy teams I would have to my club and county but when they play teams from outside Ireland you would naturally want them to win.
I find it interesting that unionists are normally thought of as posh yet loyalists are perceived as working class.
Where does this myth originate?
Probably the wrong thread entirely for this.
The working class loyalist was most visible by doing the dirty work of the boys in the big houses.
Who's dirty work were Irish republicans Provos/Dissidents/Officials doing then?
I'm an Irish republican, please do not think those feckers represent Irish republicanism.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on May 22, 2012, 06:53:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 22, 2012, 01:55:21 PM
Ulster Rugby have made great strides to make it a sport for all, gone are the days when it was posh prods at play, now it also includes posh taigs...Joking aside Ulster Rugby has tried to be inclusive and with the GAA is attempting to cross community barriers. True you see the few loyalists at games sporting the NI Soccer Flag as a man from Monaghan described it but most are there to support the team. I do not have the same emotional attachment to any of the Rubgy teams I would have to my club and county but when they play teams from outside Ireland you would naturally want them to win.
I know plenty of people who carry the NI flag to Ulster matches who wouldn't fit the term 'loyalist'.
Are they not loyal? It is a fact that that particular flag represents to Nationalists all the hurt and discrimination that this new dispensation has meant to have consigned to the past. Anyone carrying it cannot be unaware the message it delivers to nationalists, they might as well piss around Ulster Rugby to mark out their territory.
Back to Rugby - Will Leinster complete an historic double at the weekend?
Quote from: Declan on May 23, 2012, 08:57:53 AM
Back to Rugby - Will Leinster complete an historic double at the weekend?
Ospreys were surprisingly impressive against Munster in the semis. Leinster making all the right sounds re taking it seriously this year, but won't be easy.
In one way I'd love to see Madigan get the start, seeing as he's the 10 who's played the biggest part in Leinster reaching this final, but you can't really leave Sexton out. I would like to see Cronin, Toner and Kearney Jnr all get starts.
Discuss your politics somewhere else, this is a rugby thread.
Don't think Toner will make it tbh, his centre of gravity is too high which makes him ineffective at rucking, scrummaging and carrying. A good line-out operator he might be but I don't think it overrides his deficiencies in the engine room of the team.
Madigan seems a nice player, potential there. What you make of Kearney junior? What's his long term position? Unsure of Cronin too, is he capable enough at the line-out to be world class? I doubt it. What does Strauss have that Cronin doesn't?
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
Discuss your politics somewhere else, this is a rugby thread.
Don't think Toner will make it tbh, his centre of gravity is too high which makes him ineffective at rucking, scrummaging and carrying. A good line-out operator he might be but I don't think it overrides his deficiencies in the engine room of the team.
Madigan seems a nice player, potential there. What you make of Kearney junior? What's his long term position? Unsure of Cronin too, is he capable enough at the line-out to be world class? I doubt it. What does Strauss have that Cronin doesn't?
Toner improved by a large amount this year. In the group stages of the Heineken Cup he was very good. His ball carrying in particular has come on leaps and bounds. No question for example, as he gained more yards per carry than either of O'Callaghan or O'Connell this season. There's still improvements to be made, but I certainly wouldnt write him off.
Strauss wasn't as good this year as last year. I don't think there's a whole heap between himself and Cronin. I thought Strauss had a super final though, robbed a lot of dirty ball, which is one of his strengths.
Kearney can play full back, but I prefer him at wing. Didnt fancy him last year, but for me has been the most improved player over the last 12 months. Surprised Kidney picked Zebo ahead of him, given that it was Kearney who was called up as cover for the 6N rather than Zebo, and in Munster's two big games recently (v Ulster and Ospreys), Zebo was awful.
Toner is still filling out his body, his height is advantage come scrum and obviously line-out time. Like Hound I agree that his ball carrying has improved but Trileacman has pointed his biggest deficiency, his rucking and it's just not good enough but he is a better option than DOC. He will come good.
Interesting story about Cronin - he's not much of a drinker and after the England this year he was on the mic on the bus, making an eejit of himself, Mick Kearney (Team Manager) tried to take the mic off him and words ensued. After things had calmed down Kidney came down to Cronin for a quiet word and remind him off his responsibilities finishing up with "Going forward Sean if you want to be a part of the Irish Set up you will have to look at your behaviour today and apologise for it". Cronin's response was "After that display today Deccie it's not me that has to worry about been part of the Irish set-up going forward"
Not Leinster but Leamy is the 3rd Munster player to retire due to injury this year. Is this just a blip or is there something wrong with Munster training?
I think what you're seeing at Munster is the inevitable side effect of professionalism. The guys who are retiring were all in the firing line throughout Munster's most gruelling, most intensive glory days.
While it might have been normal for forwards to carry on into their thirties a generation or two ago, each week in the modern game they're coming up against 15 players of 15st+ of genuine power, for 80 minutes. The only way to do that is to put your body through unnatural preparation in terms of strength and fitness work.
I've a horrible feeling that Leinster will endure a similar spate of early retirements in a few year's time, and that top-level rugby will become a game of no place for old men.
Well, they're all older guys as well, and have a lot of Rugby played. The Irish pack was essentially the Munster Pack for a few years there, so the likes of Hayes, Horan, o'Callaghan, O'Connell, Leamy, Quinlan Wallace etc etc etc have all got a lot of miles on the clock in a very physical sport.
If this year was 'rebuilding', next year is rebulding, refurnishing and a nice paint job. I saw the following list of players that were in the squad this year, but are gone either through retirement or leaving the club for 2012/2013. A huge turnover.
Chambers, Cusack, Flannery, Fogarty, Hayes, Hurley, Leamy, Mafi, O'Driscoll, O'Leary, Wallace.
The age profile (front to back) of the Leinster team that started on Saturday is:
24 - 26 - 32
34 - 37
27 - 28 - 25
31 - 26
32 - 33
29 - 26 - 25
Avg: 29
I don't think I'd be particularly concerned as there's some decent talent coming through, key players like Sexton, Kearney, O'Brien, Healy have a good 5+ years left in them, but a bit of bad luck with injuries could potentially see a glut of first team retirements in a small space of time.
QuoteInteresting story about Cronin - he's not much of a drinker and after the England this year he was on the mic on the bus, making an eejit of himself, Mick Kearney (Team Manager) tried to take the mic off him and words ensued. After things had calmed down Kidney came down to Cronin for a quiet word and remind him off his responsibilities finishing up with "Going forward Sean if you want to be a part of the Irish Set up you will have to look at your behaviour today and apologise for it". Cronin's response was "After that display today Deccie it's not me that has to worry about been part of the Irish set-up going forward"
I'd say Deccie loved that ;D ;D
The main concern here is are we reaching a point where the physicality of the game is going to lead to more and more players retiring due to injury. The worse thing is that we won't hear of the most careers ending with an injury as those players will never reach their potential, I'm thinking along the lines of Thom Evans, Fogarty, Best, Jackman and some less publicised cases. I think rugby is now in the group of sports who must consider the long-term health implications for players.
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
Don't think Toner will make it tbh, his centre of gravity is too high which makes him ineffective at rucking, scrummaging and carrying. A good line-out operator he might be but I don't think it overrides his deficiencies in the engine room of the team.
If he keeps improving at the rate he did this year, him and Dan Tuohy will make a helluva good second row for Ireland.
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
Madigan seems a nice player, potential there.
He would be on the plane for NZ if it were not for that one-eyed clown picking the squad - what is Ronan O'Gara going to do in the next world cup? Madigan is widely recognised as the best passer in the country.
Over the next year, Jonny Sexton will increasingly be looking over his shoulder at Madigan. In 2014... one of them will have to leave Leinster to play regular HEC rugby. So Keatley and Jackson have until then to stake their claim in their respective provinces.
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
What you make of Kearney junior? What's his long term position?
Winger - as his bro is a better full back.
Again, if it weren't for the clown picking the squad, he'd be in ahead of Simon Zebo (who has so many big deficiencies to his game its astounding he has been picked).
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
Unsure of Cronin too, is he capable enough at the line-out to be world class? I doubt it. What does Strauss have that Cronin doesn't?
Strauss has the slightly better throw. Both need to work on it.
Cronin has searing pace though if he can sort his hands. Last year in Connacht, he was the quickest player there over the ground... for reference that squad included Fionn Carr.
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:05:54 PM
The main concern here is are we reaching a point where the physicality of the game is going to lead to more and more players retiring due to injury. The worse thing is that we won't hear of the most careers ending with an injury as those players will never reach their potential, I'm thinking along the lines of Thom Evans, Fogarty, Best, Jackman and some less publicised cases. I think rugby is now in the group of sports who must consider the long-term health implications for players.
What next, American football style padding?
Quote from: johnneycool on May 24, 2012, 08:57:52 AM
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:05:54 PM
The main concern here is are we reaching a point where the physicality of the game is going to lead to more and more players retiring due to injury. The worse thing is that we won't hear of the most careers ending with an injury as those players will never reach their potential, I'm thinking along the lines of Thom Evans, Fogarty, Best, Jackman and some less publicised cases. I think rugby is now in the group of sports who must consider the long-term health implications for players.
What next, American football style padding?
Quite a few players wear padding as it is.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 24, 2012, 08:46:57 AM
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
Don't think Toner will make it tbh, his centre of gravity is too high which makes him ineffective at rucking, scrummaging and carrying. A good line-out operator he might be but I don't think it overrides his deficiencies in the engine room of the team.
If he keeps improving at the rate he did this year, him and Dan Tuohy will make a helluva good second row for Ireland.
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
Madigan seems a nice player, potential there.
He would be on the plane for NZ if it were not for that one-eyed clown picking the squad - what is Ronan O'Gara going to do in the next world cup? Madigan is widely recognised as the best passer in the country.
Over the next year, Jonny Sexton will increasingly be looking over his shoulder at Madigan. In 2014... one of them will have to leave Leinster to play regular HEC rugby. So Keatley and Jackson have until then to stake their claim in their respective provinces.
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
What you make of Kearney junior? What's his long term position?
Winger - as his bro is a better full back.
Again, if it weren't for the clown picking the squad, he'd be in ahead of Simon Zebo (who has so many big deficiencies to his game its astounding he has been picked).
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
Unsure of Cronin too, is he capable enough at the line-out to be world class? I doubt it. What does Strauss have that Cronin doesn't?
Strauss has the slightly better throw. Both need to work on it.
Cronin has searing pace though if he can sort his hands. Last year in Connacht, he was the quickest player there over the ground... for reference that squad included Fionn Carr.
Should Gilroy not have been given a chance in New Zealand or at least been a part of the tour party for some experience?!
Quote from: trileacman on May 23, 2012, 11:05:54 PM
The main concern here is are we reaching a point where the physicality of the game is going to lead to more and more players retiring due to injury. The worse thing is that we won't hear of the most careers ending with an injury as those players will never reach their potential, I'm thinking along the lines of Thom Evans, Fogarty, Best, Jackman and some less publicised cases. I think rugby is now in the group of sports who must consider the long-term health implications for players.
In Fairness bar Tom Evans Fogarty, Best and Jackman had reached their potential. John Fogarty was 32 when he retired and he played over a 100 games with Connacht and while he was a good club pro he wasn't international standard( a legend for Connacht all the same). Simon Best again made 115 appearances for Ulster and captained them to a Celtic league title but had plenty of chances at international level particularly after Emmet Byrne retired. Bernard Jackman played for Connacht ( two stints) , Sale and Leinster( where he won a Heineken Cup). While he was dynamic in the loose and solid in the scrum his throwing let him down all through his career hence the relative few caps for Ireland.
Also Jackman was 34 when he retired , Best retired because of a rare heart condition which had nothing to do with physical exchanges and Fogarty(who was 32) retired due to recurring concussions which if the cognitive rules on concussion injuries were enforced by the IRB this would have be greatly reduced!
Quote from: screenexile on May 24, 2012, 03:43:13 PM
Should Gilroy not have been given a chance in New Zealand or at least been a part of the tour party for some experience?!
Yep - again, blame the one eyed clown that picks the squad.
Both Gilroy and DKearney are significantly further along in their development than Zebo. But, neither Gilroy or DKearney play for Munster...
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2012, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 24, 2012, 03:43:13 PM
Should Gilroy not have been given a chance in New Zealand or at least been a part of the tour party for some experience?!
Yep - again, blame the one eyed clown that picks the squad.
Both Gilroy and DKearney are significantly further along in their development than Zebo. But, neither Gilroy or DKearney play for Munster...
I personally would have Madigan in instead of O Gara and would leave Darcy at home so you could at least try McFadden or Drico at 12. Also I would have D. Kearney in and probably pick one of Gilroy/Zebo/Tiernan O' Halloran. In the forwards I would have taken Toner or maybe Ian Henderson instead of O' Callahan, Dominic Ryan instead of Ferris and Rhys Ruddock or John Muldoon instead of O' Brien ( purely becauuse both were carrying serious injuries into the Heiniken cup final). Also from left field I would have found space for Luke McGrath or more conservatively Paul Marshall at scrum half cause while Reddan is decent at club level he just can't cut it at international level unless getting an armchair ride form the pack!
This crap that to beat New Zealand we have to put out our full team in all three tests is a fairytale. Can anyone tell me what was the closest we came to beating New Zealand since the game started to go pro after the 87 world cup?.......................
Of course everybody knows it was the first test of the famous 1992 tour where we lost 24-21 in Carrisbrook after leading till the last 10 mins of the game! Still doesn't ring a bell? Well maybe all the batlled scared vertan players on the team will jog the auld memory :
15: Jim Staples (10th cap)
14: Ronnie Carey (first cap)
13: Philip Danagher (9th cap)
12: Vincent Cunnighham (7th cap)
11: Neville Furlong (first cap)
10: Peter Russell (first cap)
9: Mick Bradley (23rd cap)
8: Kelvin Leahy ( first cap)
7: Brian Robinson (10th cap)
6: Mick Fitzgibbon (first cap)
5: Paddy Johns (2nd cap)
4: Mick Galway (5th cap)
3: Paul McCarthy (first cap)
2: Steve Smith (16th cap)
1: Nick Popplewell (8th cap)
(Drico and ROG have more caps individually than all the above team :o)
And just if you think the all blacks had some backwater junior provincial team out that day it contained legends such as Sean Fitzpatrick, Ian Jones , Jamie Joseph, Walter Little , Frank Bunce , John Kirwan and ( just poached from Western Soma and the original Lomu) Inga Tuigamala!
Cannot disagree with one word of that post Crete Boom.
I suspect your watching this site with baited breath too...
http://www.kidneyclock.net/
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2012, 07:11:11 PM
Cannot disagree with one word of that post Crete Boom.
I suspect your watching this site with baited breath too...
http://www.kidneyclock.net/
I'm sure the leinster boys check in on that one daily ;D ;D
Seriously though I'm a fan of Kidney's I just think he was given the Irish job too late! Really I wanted him to take over from Gatland. For all Eddie O Sullivan's acheivements he was even more conservative than Kidney and while it would have been a hard call the IRFU should have made that call and chose Kidney there and then( shades of what my own county did with John O' Mahoney). The game has moved on rapidly fom the 2007 world cup and unfortunately while undoubtley a great leader and motivator Kidney is just an old school conservative first generation pro Rugby coach. He really should have been up for review after the World cup which looking at the 3 years previous ruthlessly he would have been replaced with someone like Wayne Smith if going for experience or for a home grown coach Connor o' Shea or Brian McLoughlin.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 23, 2012, 02:19:13 PM
Toner is still filling out his body, his height is advantage come scrum and obviously line-out time. Like Hound I agree that his ball carrying has improved but Trileacman has pointed his biggest deficiency, his rucking and it's just not good enough but he is a better option than DOC. He will come good.
Interesting story about Cronin - he's not much of a drinker and after the England this year he was on the mic on the bus, making an eejit of himself, Mick Kearney (Team Manager) tried to take the mic off him and words ensued. After things had calmed down Kidney came down to Cronin for a quiet word and remind him off his responsibilities finishing up with "Going forward Sean if you want to be a part of the Irish Set up you will have to look at your behaviour today and apologise for it". Cronin's response was "After that display today Deccie it's not me that has to worry about been part of the Irish set-up going forward"
Funny story alright, but is it even true?
Quote from: Crete Boom on May 25, 2012, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2012, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 24, 2012, 03:43:13 PM
Should Gilroy not have been given a chance in New Zealand or at least been a part of the tour party for some experience?!
Yep - again, blame the one eyed clown that picks the squad.
Both Gilroy and DKearney are significantly further along in their development than Zebo. But, neither Gilroy or DKearney play for Munster...
I personally would have Madigan in instead of O Gara and would leave Darcy at home so you could at least try McFadden or Drico at 12. Also I would have D. Kearney in and probably pick one of Gilroy/Zebo/Tiernan O' Halloran. In the forwards I would have taken Toner or maybe Ian Henderson instead of O' Callahan, Dominic Ryan instead of Ferris and Rhys Ruddock or John Muldoon instead of O' Brien ( purely becauuse both were carrying serious injuries into the Heiniken cup final). Also from left field I would have found space for Luke McGrath or more conservatively Paul Marshall at scrum half cause while Reddan is decent at club level he just can't cut it at international level unless getting an armchair ride form the pack!
This crap that to beat New Zealand we have to put out our full team in all three tests is a fairytale. Can anyone tell me what was the closest we came to beating New Zealand since the game started to go pro after the 87 world cup?.......................
Of course everybody knows it was the first test of the famous 1992 tour where we lost 24-21 in Carrisbrook after leading till the last 10 mins of the game! Still doesn't ring a bell? Well maybe all the batlled scared vertan players on the team will jog the auld memory :
15: Jim Staples (10th cap)
14: Ronnie Carey (first cap)
13: Philip Danagher (9th cap)
12: Vincent Cunnighham (7th cap)
11: Neville Furlong (first cap)
10: Peter Russell (first cap)
9: Mick Bradley (23rd cap)
8: Kelvin Leahy ( first cap)
7: Brian Robinson (10th cap)
6: Mick Fitzgibbon (first cap)
5: Paddy Johns (2nd cap)
4: Mick Galway (5th cap)
3: Paul McCarthy (first cap)
2: Steve Smith (16th cap)
1: Nick Popplewell (8th cap)
(Drico and ROG have more caps individually than all the above team :o)
And just if you think the all blacks had some backwater junior provincial team out that day it contained legends such as Sean Fitzpatrick, Ian Jones , Jamie Joseph, Walter Little , Frank Bunce , John Kirwan and ( just poached from Western Soma and the original Lomu) Inga Tuigamala!
Do you seriously believe Ferris is not 1st choice No.6 for Ireland?
Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2012, 12:11:22 AM
Do you seriously believe Ferris is not 1st choice No.6 for Ireland?
He is resting him and O'Brien after a long season. The way Ulster and its staff are treating Ferris' body he may not be playing in a Ireland shirt for much longer, I foresee a bad injury down the line if Ulster keep pushing him out at half fitness.
Quote from: Orchardman on May 26, 2012, 12:08:29 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 23, 2012, 02:19:13 PM
Toner is still filling out his body, his height is advantage come scrum and obviously line-out time. Like Hound I agree that his ball carrying has improved but Trileacman has pointed his biggest deficiency, his rucking and it's just not good enough but he is a better option than DOC. He will come good.
Interesting story about Cronin - he's not much of a drinker and after the England this year he was on the mic on the bus, making an eejit of himself, Mick Kearney (Team Manager) tried to take the mic off him and words ensued. After things had calmed down Kidney came down to Cronin for a quiet word and remind him off his responsibilities finishing up with "Going forward Sean if you want to be a part of the Irish Set up you will have to look at your behaviour today and apologise for it". Cronin's response was "After that display today Deccie it's not me that has to worry about been part of the Irish set-up going forward"
Funny story alright, but is it even true?
I like to disagree with Dinny on all rugby matters but I'd say this story you could believe.
Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2012, 12:11:22 AM
Quote from: Crete Boom on May 25, 2012, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2012, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 24, 2012, 03:43:13 PM
Should Gilroy not have been given a chance in New Zealand or at least been a part of the tour party for some experience?!
Yep - again, blame the one eyed clown that picks the squad.
Both Gilroy and DKearney are significantly further along in their development than Zebo. But, neither Gilroy or DKearney play for Munster...
I personally would have Madigan in instead of O Gara and would leave Darcy at home so you could at least try McFadden or Drico at 12. Also I would have D. Kearney in and probably pick one of Gilroy/Zebo/Tiernan O' Halloran. In the forwards I would have taken Toner or maybe Ian Henderson instead of O' Callahan, Dominic Ryan instead of Ferris and Rhys Ruddock or John Muldoon instead of O' Brien ( purely becauuse both were carrying serious injuries into the Heiniken cup final). Also from left field I would have found space for Luke McGrath or more conservatively Paul Marshall at scrum half cause while Reddan is decent at club level he just can't cut it at international level unless getting an armchair ride form the pack!
This crap that to beat New Zealand we have to put out our full team in all three tests is a fairytale. Can anyone tell me what was the closest we came to beating New Zealand since the game started to go pro after the 87 world cup?.......................
Of course everybody knows it was the first test of the famous 1992 tour where we lost 24-21 in Carrisbrook after leading till the last 10 mins of the game! Still doesn't ring a bell? Well maybe all the batlled scared vertan players on the team will jog the auld memory :
15: Jim Staples (10th cap)
14: Ronnie Carey (first cap)
13: Philip Danagher (9th cap)
12: Vincent Cunnighham (7th cap)
11: Neville Furlong (first cap)
10: Peter Russell (first cap)
9: Mick Bradley (23rd cap)
8: Kelvin Leahy ( first cap)
7: Brian Robinson (10th cap)
6: Mick Fitzgibbon (first cap)
5: Paddy Johns (2nd cap)
4: Mick Galway (5th cap)
3: Paul McCarthy (first cap)
2: Steve Smith (16th cap)
1: Nick Popplewell (8th cap)
(Drico and ROG have more caps individually than all the above team :o)
And just if you think the all blacks had some backwater junior provincial team out that day it contained legends such as Sean Fitzpatrick, Ian Jones , Jamie Joseph, Walter Little , Frank Bunce , John Kirwan and ( just poached from Western Soma and the original Lomu) Inga Tuigamala!
Do you seriously believe Ferris is not 1st choice No.6 for Ireland?
No Ferris if 60% fit is the first name in the backrow for Ireland but if you read the whole sentence I said the reason to leave him and O' Brien at home is that they were both carrying injuries into the Heineken Cup final with Ferris playing on one leg since the quarter final. The knee problem he has is well documented and has to be managed and from what I hear it's in especially bad shape at the moment. Just like they way Aston Villa let Paul McGrath do very light training to prolong his career I think Kidney should take a leaf out of Brain McLoughlin's book and way up the importance of keeping Ferris fit in the long term i.e next season's November's internationals/Six Nations not flog him on an end of year money making exercise especially since we have an abundance of young backrow talent chomping at the bit for game-time.
Quote from: trileacman on May 26, 2012, 12:51:48 AM
Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2012, 12:11:22 AM
Do you seriously believe Ferris is not 1st choice No.6 for Ireland?
He is resting him and O'Brien after a long season. The way Ulster and its staff are treating Ferris' body he may not be playing in a Ireland shirt for much longer, I foresee a bad injury down the line if Ulster keep pushing him out at half fitness.
Quote from: Orchardman on May 26, 2012, 12:08:29 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 23, 2012, 02:19:13 PM
Toner is still filling out his body, his height is advantage come scrum and obviously line-out time. Like Hound I agree that his ball carrying has improved but Trileacman has pointed his biggest deficiency, his rucking and it's just not good enough but he is a better option than DOC. He will come good.
Interesting story about Cronin - he's not much of a drinker and after the England this year he was on the mic on the bus, making an eejit of himself, Mick Kearney (Team Manager) tried to take the mic off him and words ensued. After things had calmed down Kidney came down to Cronin for a quiet word and remind him off his responsibilities finishing up with "Going forward Sean if you want to be a part of the Irish Set up you will have to look at your behaviour today and apologise for it". Cronin's response was "After that display today Deccie it's not me that has to worry about been part of the Irish set-up going forward"
Funny story alright, but is it even true?
I like to disagree with Dinny on all rugby matters but I'd say this story you could believe.
:-*
Anyhow Ferris is out, big Kev McLaughlin in. Feel sorry for Ferris but well deserved chance for McLaughlin, my man of the match last week.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 26, 2012, 09:41:54 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 26, 2012, 12:51:48 AM
Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2012, 12:11:22 AM
Do you seriously believe Ferris is not 1st choice No.6 for Ireland?
He is resting him and O'Brien after a long season. The way Ulster and its staff are treating Ferris' body he may not be playing in a Ireland shirt for much longer, I foresee a bad injury down the line if Ulster keep pushing him out at half fitness.
Quote from: Orchardman on May 26, 2012, 12:08:29 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 23, 2012, 02:19:13 PM
Toner is still filling out his body, his height is advantage come scrum and obviously line-out time. Like Hound I agree that his ball carrying has improved but Trileacman has pointed his biggest deficiency, his rucking and it's just not good enough but he is a better option than DOC. He will come good.
Interesting story about Cronin - he's not much of a drinker and after the England this year he was on the mic on the bus, making an eejit of himself, Mick Kearney (Team Manager) tried to take the mic off him and words ensued. After things had calmed down Kidney came down to Cronin for a quiet word and remind him off his responsibilities finishing up with "Going forward Sean if you want to be a part of the Irish Set up you will have to look at your behaviour today and apologise for it". Cronin's response was "After that display today Deccie it's not me that has to worry about been part of the Irish set-up going forward"
Funny story alright, but is it even true?
I like to disagree with Dinny on all rugby matters but I'd say this story you could believe.
:-*
Anyhow Ferris is out, big Kev McLaughlin in. Feel sorry for Ferris but well deserved chance for McLaughlin, my man of the match last week.
From a purely selfish, Ulster perspective I'm glad 1F is missing this tour. He'll be able to enjoy a proper rest and come back in August ready to motor.
Reigning champions, Leinster Rugby, will be the first club allocated a pool for the 2012/13 Heineken Cup when the draw for the composition of the six pools for the 18th tournament takes place at the Aviva Stadium, Dublin on Tuesday, 12 June (11.00am).The pool draw for the 24 qualified clubs, which will be streamed live on ercrugby.com, will launch the countdown to the Dublin 2013 Heineken Cup final at the Aviva Stadium on Saturday, 18 May.
Having won European club rugby's premier competition three times in the past four years, Leinster also sit proudly at the top of the ERC European Rankings with 40 points, the highest total achieved by any club since the system was introduced in 2007.
To view the current ERC European Rankings, please follow this link ERC European Ranking
The rankings aim to reward and incentivise clubs which consistently perform at the highest level in European competition over four seasons.
They are used for the purposes of the Heineken Cup pool draw to allocate the clubs that have qualified into four tiers of six clubs and to ensure the highest-ranked clubs are separated in the six pools.
Leinster are joined in Tier 1 by three Heineken Cup winners in Toulouse, Munster Rugby and Northampton Saints, while Biarritz Olympique and Cardiff Blues complete the top tier of six clubs.
Once the Tier 1 clubs have each been allocated a different pool, no club from the same tier will be drawn in the same pool, and no pool will have more than one club from the same country with the exception of France, as there are seven French clubs in next season's competition.
Exeter Chiefs from England have qualified for the first time while a second Italian club will be nominated by the Italian Federation.
2012/13 Heineken Cup clubs and tiers
Tier 1 - Leinster Rugby, Toulouse, Biarritz Olympique, Munster Rugby, Cardiff Blues, Northampton Saints
Tier 2 - ASM Clermont Auvergne, Ulster Rugby, Leicester Tigers, Harlequins, Toulon, Edinburgh Rugby
Tier 3 - Ospreys, Scarlets, Glasgow Warriors, Saracens, Connacht Rugby, Sale Sharks
Tier 4 - Castres Olympique, Benetton Treviso, Racing Metro 92, Montpellier, Exeter Chiefs, Italian club (to be confirmed)
• The draw for the 2012/13 Heineken Cup pools will take place at the Aviva Stadium, Dublin on Tuesday, 12 June at 11.00am
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of those Tier 4 teams are going to end up with bitches of Pool;s
eg Leinster, Clermont and Saracens or Toulouse, Leicester and Ospreys. Going to some groups of death !
Clermont are easily a tier 1 side.
Draw for 2012/2013 competition on within the hour
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18403809
Quote
Premiership Rugby announces possible Heineken Cup withdrawal
The governing body of England's top rugby union clubs has given notice of its intention to pull out of the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup.
The move comes amid disagreements over how the competitions are organised.
French clubs have also threatened to withdraw, but as two years' notice has to be given the move is perceived as an attempt to force others to negotiate.
"We hope that there will now be an urgent dialogue," said Premiership Rugby chief executive Mark McCafferty.
In May, Leinster beat Ulster 42-14 in the Heineken Cup final to retain the trophy.
Premiership Rugby's intention to exit the competition will affect such top English sides as Northampton, Saracens, Gloucester, Bath, Harlequins, Leicester and London Irish, all of whom competed in the 2011-12 tournament.
McCafferty added that he hopes discussions can commence soon regarding "the future of European cup rugby, including qualification, competition formats and ambition to expand into new markets".
The governing body's notice period extends to the end of the 2013-14 event, at which point they say they will exit the competitions.
:o :o :o :o
Defending champions Leinster have been drawn in Pool 5 for next season's Heineken Cup along with Clermont Auvergne, Scarlets and Exeter.
Pool 1: Munster, Edinburgh, Saracens, Racing Metro 92
Pool 2: Toulouse, Leicester, Ospreys, Benetton Treviso
Pool 3: Biarritz, Harlequins, Connacht, Zebre
Pool 4: Northampton, Ulster, Glasgow Warriors, Castres
Pool 5: Leinster, Clermont Auvergne, Scarlets, Exeter
Pool 6: Cardiff Blues, Toulon, Sale, Montpellier
Those could be two very tough groups for Leinster and Munstee. Leinster didn't want Clermont.
Biaritz and Harlequins will make the Quarter finals out of that group with Connacht and Zebra.
Apart from Clermont, Leinster have a soft enough group.
Munster in a bad group, Edinburgh are becoming a force, Saracens remain reasonably strong and Racing Metro are a decent French side. No soft away ties there.
Not a bad group for Ulster. Pedrie W. making a swift comeback to Ravenhill with Castres.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 12, 2012, 09:33:33 PM
Not a bad group for Ulster. Pedrie W. making a swift comeback to Ravenhill with Castres.
with Roger Wilson making a swift return to Franklins Gardens too.
Quote from: trileacman on June 12, 2012, 09:28:12 PM
Apart from Clermont, Leinster have a soft enough group.
Munster in a bad group, Edinburgh are becoming a force, Saracens remain reasonably strong and Racing Metro are a decent French side. No soft away ties there.
It is still a tough break for Leinster getting the second best team in the competition in their group. Munster didn't get much benefit from being top seeds either.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/22/premiership-top-14-breakaway-heineken-cup
The leading clubs in the Aviva Premiership in England and Top 14 in France are ready to organise an alternative tournament to the Heineken Cup because they feel European rugby's premier club competition is weighted too heavily in favour of the Celtic nations.
Quote from: seafoid on August 23, 2012, 12:35:31 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/22/premiership-top-14-breakaway-heineken-cup
The leading clubs in the Aviva Premiership in England and Top 14 in France are ready to organise an alternative tournament to the Heineken Cup because they feel European rugby's premier club competition is weighted too heavily in favour of the Celtic nations.
Those guys have a fair point!
Let battle commence
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/heineken-cup-doomed-as-tv-war-breaks-out-16210416.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/heineken-cup-doomed-as-tv-war-breaks-out-16210416.html)
QuoteHeineken Cup doomed as TV war breaks out
1 6 106By Chris Hewett
Thursday, 13 September 2012
The landscape of professional club rugby across Europe is likely to change dramatically as a result of a highly lucrative deal between England's leading teams and the telecoms giant BT – the latest big-money player in the sports broadcasting market, ambitious enough to have splashed out £1bn on rights over the last three months.
The contract, worth up to £152m to the Premiership teams over four years, threatens to transform the politics of the game in the northern hemisphere, as well as its economics.
Premier Rugby, the umbrella organisation representing the 12 top-flight sides in the country, announced yesterday that BT had bought exclusive rights to league matches, starting next season. Negotiations were also held with the current broadcasters, BSkyB and ESPN, who have been splitting live broadcasts between them, but they either would not or could not match the BT bid. For BSkyB, the broadcasters who helped drive the sport towards professionalism in the mid-1990s and have been at the heart of the action ever since, it appeared to be a particularly heavy defeat.
As part of the new deal, BT will also have exclusive rights to any European matches involving Premiership clubs – and this is where the controversy begins. Premier Rugby, at serious loggerheads with Heineken Cup administrators over both the format and the commercial status of the world's leading club tournament, have, together with the French clubs, threatened to walk away from the competition in 2014 unless significant changes are agreed. This new money will strengthen their position when negotiations begin in earnest next week.
According to the Premiership clubs, the new money ring-fenced for European broadcasts will go into the common pot if agreement is reached, thereby increasing the financial take for all those involved. But by selling their European rights unilaterally, the English are effectively saying to the three Celtic nations and the Italians: "You can either see things our way, or you can do without our money."
The immediate response was very sharp indeed. Within hours, Heineken Cup officials upped the political ante by announcing that they had reached a new exclusive agreement with their existing broadcasters, BSkyB, until the end of the 2017-18 European campaign. Two rival TV companies: two exclusive deals. Something will have to give.
Quote from: FermGael on September 13, 2012, 11:25:34 AM
Let battle commence
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/heineken-cup-doomed-as-tv-war-breaks-out-16210416.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/heineken-cup-doomed-as-tv-war-breaks-out-16210416.html)
QuoteHeineken Cup doomed as TV war breaks out
1 6 106By Chris Hewett
Thursday, 13 September 2012
The landscape of professional club rugby across Europe is likely to change dramatically as a result of a highly lucrative deal between England's leading teams and the telecoms giant BT – the latest big-money player in the sports broadcasting market, ambitious enough to have splashed out £1bn on rights over the last three months.
The contract, worth up to £152m to the Premiership teams over four years, threatens to transform the politics of the game in the northern hemisphere, as well as its economics.
Premier Rugby, the umbrella organisation representing the 12 top-flight sides in the country, announced yesterday that BT had bought exclusive rights to league matches, starting next season. Negotiations were also held with the current broadcasters, BSkyB and ESPN, who have been splitting live broadcasts between them, but they either would not or could not match the BT bid. For BSkyB, the broadcasters who helped drive the sport towards professionalism in the mid-1990s and have been at the heart of the action ever since, it appeared to be a particularly heavy defeat.
As part of the new deal, BT will also have exclusive rights to any European matches involving Premiership clubs – and this is where the controversy begins. Premier Rugby, at serious loggerheads with Heineken Cup administrators over both the format and the commercial status of the world's leading club tournament, have, together with the French clubs, threatened to walk away from the competition in 2014 unless significant changes are agreed. This new money will strengthen their position when negotiations begin in earnest next week.
According to the Premiership clubs, the new money ring-fenced for European broadcasts will go into the common pot if agreement is reached, thereby increasing the financial take for all those involved. But by selling their European rights unilaterally, the English are effectively saying to the three Celtic nations and the Italians: "You can either see things our way, or you can do without our money."
The immediate response was very sharp indeed. Within hours, Heineken Cup officials upped the political ante by announcing that they had reached a new exclusive agreement with their existing broadcasters, BSkyB, until the end of the 2017-18 European campaign. Two rival TV companies: two exclusive deals. Something will have to give.
Is this not the second time the English clubs have thrown the toys out of the pram?
I presume the ring fenced part of the BT deal will obviously require the ERC to forfeit some or all of the Sky deal if it comes to it.
It's a real game of poker for the English clubs now. If the ERC buck them out then they'll lose their current ERC money and not get the BT money for the HC aspect of the deal and with most being cash strapped, its a pretty big gamble.
The ERC itself will need to decide on its next course of action, buck out the English clubs and then the Heino Cup isn't as lucrative to Sky and they'll maybe want to re-negotiate the current deal with the franchises in Scotland, Ireland and Wales losing out more than most due to the lack of revenue from the rabo direct 12 or whatever its called now!
England have the ERC over a barrel. They will have to compromise to allow a higher proportion of French/English clubs in, otherwise the French/English will set up their own European Cup and invite a few of the Rabo teams to participate.
How can BT buy the rights for English clubs in the Heineken Cup? Only the ERC can sell those rights surely as it's their competition. Don't see how the English clubs and BT have a leg to stand on here.
Quote from: seafoid on August 23, 2012, 12:35:31 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/22/premiership-top-14-breakaway-heineken-cup
The leading clubs in the Aviva Premiership in England and Top 14 in France are ready to organise an alternative tournament to the Heineken Cup because they feel European rugby's premier club competition is weighted too heavily in favour of the Celtic nations.
Strangely enough they never brought this up when their clubs were winning the HEC.
Quote from: Hound on September 13, 2012, 01:10:06 PM
England have the ERC over a barrel. They will have to compromise to allow a higher proportion of French/English clubs in, otherwise the French/English will set up their own European Cup and invite a few of the Rabo teams to participate.
You have hit the nail on the head there. Without English and French clubs the competition is finito and ERC know it.
Might be a compromise whereby only two Irish clubs (ahem) allowed in every season to be decided by the Rabo placings . Certainly would concentrate the Irish teams' minds in the league and give the English and French clubs the satisfaction that the Irish clubs aren't swanning through the league and nailing them in the EC.
If the Irish, Welsh and Scottish hang together they might just have a chance (the Italians will do as they are told). Sure, the English and the French can play each other, but it'd be about less interesting than the Calcutta Cup. I can see a concerted effort though on the part of the English to woo the Welsh. Play in our European Cup and we'll give you a bigger slice than you are getting from their European Cup. If the Welsh agree, the others will have to fall in line and Ireland would be the big losers. Interesting times ahead.
Quote from: Canalman on September 13, 2012, 04:37:59 PM
Quote from: Hound on September 13, 2012, 01:10:06 PM
England have the ERC over a barrel. They will have to compromise to allow a higher proportion of French/English clubs in, otherwise the French/English will set up their own European Cup and invite a few of the Rabo teams to participate.
You have hit the nail on the head there. Without English and French clubs the competition is finito and ERC know it.
Might be a compromise whereby only two Irish clubs (ahem) allowed in every season to be decided by the Rabo placings . Certainly would concentrate the Irish teams' minds in the league and give the English and French clubs the satisfaction that the Irish clubs aren't swanning through the league and nailing them in the EC.
Are the ERC, not members of the 6 nations competing countries ruling authorities like the IRFU, WRU etc, etc and sanctioned by the IRC?
I think the English premier league and the English ruby union rulers may be two separate organisations as there's been an uneasy peace between the two since the inception of professional rugby in England. This allows the league teams to negotiate their own commercial agreements and holds the contracts of the top players. Not sure how French rugby is structured
I really can't see the IRC allowing a split to occur.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Poor old sky, what did they ever do to anyone? Sky though are like a cat with nine lives. They will fight tooth and nail for this and usually come out on top.
They need Leinster, Munster and Ulster to have an elite European competition. They are 3 of the 6 best teams in Europe. So there isn't too much to worry about there.
Quote from: johnneycool on September 14, 2012, 09:07:27 AM
Are the ERC, not members of the 6 nations competing countries ruling authorities like the IRFU, WRU etc, etc and sanctioned by the IRC?
I'm pretty sure that the English clubs are independent of the English RFU. I haven't got anything definitive to confirm that, but the fact that the RFU must negotiate the release of players - for example, the clubs have ensured that no player gets to play in each of the autumn internationals at Twickenham - shows that the clubs have, at the very least, a lot of autonomy. Maybe the IRB could blackball anyone who plays for such 'rebels' from playing international rugby.
Quote from: Capt Pat on September 14, 2012, 04:02:31 PM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Poor old sky, what did they ever do to anyone? Sky though are like a cat with nine lives. They will fight tooth and nail for this and usually come out on top.
They need Leinster, Munster and Ulster to have an elite European competition. They are 3 of the 6 best teams in Europe. So there isn't too much to worry about there.
Would disagree with that, if Ulster or Munster were thrown into the French or English leagues would they qualify regularly for the HC?
Quote from: Dubh driocht on December 18, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
Big win for Ulster at the Rec without Ferris.Slow but steady progress. Nevin Spence is one for the future- I remember seeing him play for Ballynahinch Under 16s 4 years ago and he had that bit of star quality. A potential long-term replacement for BOD ?
Terrible news about Nevin Spence, his brother and father. As he was so brave in the tackle, I can just imagine him trying to save his brother and father. While his career had stalled slightly since I posted this, he remained a great prospect and this is a sad day for Ulster and Irish rugby.
I see no reason why they wouldn't do quite well.
The English and French clubs are in the wrong here in the sense they need to reduce the number of games they play. In the NFL with all the body armour it is 16 games a year. This is all about money. The English want a game evrry saturday like the premier league. It doesn't really work like that pro rugby. There is no real Italian, German Spanish Eastern European competition to bail them out.
This is all about the money but they will need two rosters to play every week which is twice as expensive. They need the Welsh and Irish clubs who are rugby
Quote from: trileacman on September 14, 2012, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on September 14, 2012, 04:02:31 PM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Poor old sky, what did they ever do to anyone? Sky though are like a cat with nine lives. They will fight tooth and nail for this and usually come out on top.
They need Leinster, Munster and Ulster to have an elite European competition. They are 3 of the 6 best team :)s in Europe. So there isn't too much to worry about there.
Would disagree with that, if Ulster or Munster were thrown into the French or English leagues would they qualify regularly for the HC?
Quote from: Capt Pat on September 16, 2012, 03:27:44 PM
I see no reason why they wouldn't do quite well.
The English and French clubs are in the wrong here in the sense they need to reduce the number of games they play. In the NFL with all the body armour it is 16 games a year. This is all about money. The English want a game evrry saturday like the premier league. It doesn't really work like that pro rugby. There is no real Italian, German Spanish Eastern European competition to bail them out.
This is all about the money but they will need two rosters to play every week which is twice as expensive. They need the Welsh and Irish clubs who are rugby
Quote from: trileacman on September 14, 2012, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on September 14, 2012, 04:02:31 PM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Poor old sky, what did they ever do to anyone? Sky though are like a cat with nine lives. They will fight tooth and nail for this and usually come out on top.
They need Leinster, Munster and Ulster to have an elite European competition. They are 3 of the 6 best team :)s in Europe. So there isn't too much to worry about there.
Would disagree with that, if Ulster or Munster were thrown into the French or English leagues would they qualify regularly for the HC?
Still disagree, the English and French are doing this with or without the Irish provinces, i.e they think they can do this without them. It's funny you're saying it's all about money and it won't work. That's exactly what was said about Rugby League, 100 odd years ago.
Ulster were too good too soon tonight but through an amazing twist of fate ended up with a 24 point win plus the all important bonus point win. The new coach Anscombe has made a difference and they were strong out of the traps- dominant up front and the backs on fire on a perfect night for rugby. Paddy Jackson is a revelation after the nightmare at Twickenham- he is the real deal. So is Iain Henderson in the second row- 20 years of age and a student at Queens but these guys most be contenders for the Ireland squad this year. Marshall was great and two excellent tries earned him MoM but it was inevitable that (there's only one ) Pieno came on to steal the show. Strange decisions to take off Tommy Bowe, allow Court to remain off after the sin-bin and to substitute Rory but it all worked out in the end. Castres (with the tyre mark shirts) may well fold now so a win in Glasgow will set up Ulster nicely to progress for the third consecutive year. Saw the 'real' Ulster flag with a tricolour included at the game; may have been the Italian variety but these European nights at Ravenhill are good value for Gaels at a loose end in Belfast.
Mother of jaysus but it is a dose to have to watch Hightlights on TG4
Well that was another great finish in Thomond Park, but that Munster team is definitely one in transition. In transition in terms of players, and also in terms of playing style. They are a long way off the likes of Leinster at this point, and I can't see them getting out of this group.
Dinny, you'll be glad to hear the bandwagon is definitely grinding to a halt. I know it was an early kick off, but it was a beautiful autumn day, and there were empty seats around the place. If it had been pissing raining, I'd say it would have been at best 3/4 full, because the ticket vans were doing a great trade in last minute buyers. For those vans even to be there for a Heineken game is, in itself, a sign.
That said, I think Munster's bandwagon has translated into a good few thousand die hards, and I expect that rump to remain, such as myself. Then no doubt the reinforcements will arrive when Munster look like they have a chance of winning things again.
Liked this photo from the weekend - David Rushida with the Munster boys
(http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/550178_473769596000919_754122261_n.jpg)
Quote from: Declan on October 22, 2012, 12:33:11 PM
Liked this photo from the weekend - David Rushida with the Munster boys
(http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/550178_473769596000919_754122261_n.jpg)
Yeah, he was introduced yesterday. His coach is a Cork man.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 22, 2012, 10:32:49 AM
Well that was another great finish in Thomond Park, but that Munster team is definitely one in transition. In transition in terms of players, and also in terms of playing style. They are a long way off the likes of Leinster at this point, and I can't see them getting out of this group.
Dinny, you'll be glad to hear the bandwagon is definitely grinding to a halt. I know it was an early kick off, but it was a beautiful autumn day, and there were empty seats around the place. If it had been pissing raining, I'd say it would have been at best 3/4 full, because the ticket vans were doing a great trade in last minute buyers. For those vans even to be there for a Heineken game is, in itself, a sign.
That said, I think Munster's bandwagon has translated into a good few thousand die hards, and I expect that rump to remain, such as myself. Then no doubt the reinforcements will arrive when Munster look like they have a chance of winning things again.
It was the trimmings that came with the bandwagon, "Best fans in the World". "The Brave and the Faithful" etc etc that would do my nut in, bums on seats though are essential for any professional team and Irish rugby needs those bums.
Munster are paying the price for neglecting their academy, I will be surprised if they qualify out of their group, it will take at least a year before we see a truly competitive Munster side playing good rugby.
For what it's worth i think the 8 quarter-finalists are already known - Clermont, Toulon, Toulouse, Saracens, Harlequins, Ulster, Leinster, Leicester...
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 22, 2012, 12:48:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 22, 2012, 10:32:49 AM
Well that was another great finish in Thomond Park, but that Munster team is definitely one in transition. In transition in terms of players, and also in terms of playing style. They are a long way off the likes of Leinster at this point, and I can't see them getting out of this group.
Dinny, you'll be glad to hear the bandwagon is definitely grinding to a halt. I know it was an early kick off, but it was a beautiful autumn day, and there were empty seats around the place. If it had been pissing raining, I'd say it would have been at best 3/4 full, because the ticket vans were doing a great trade in last minute buyers. For those vans even to be there for a Heineken game is, in itself, a sign.
That said, I think Munster's bandwagon has translated into a good few thousand die hards, and I expect that rump to remain, such as myself. Then no doubt the reinforcements will arrive when Munster look like they have a chance of winning things again.
It was the trimmings that came with the bandwagon, "Best fans in the World". "The Brave and the Faithful" etc etc that would do my nut in, bums on seats though are essential for any professional team and Irish rugby needs those bums.
Munster are paying the price for neglecting their academy, I will be surprised if they qualify out of their group, it will take at least a year before we see a truly competitive Munster side playing good rugby.
For what it's worth i think the 8 quarter-finalists are already known - Clermont, Toulon, Toulouse, Saracens, Harlequins, Ulster, Leinster, Leicester...
I think the Brave and the Faithful refers to the players, not the fans :) I also think they are paying the price for neglecting the academy through Kidney's tenure(s). In fairness to McGahan that is one area he focussed on. I also think it will be at least, at least, a year before they are back as a serious force. However I am hopeful in what I see with regard to the younger lads (Dougall, Sherry, Hanrahan, O'Dea, Barnes, Dave O'Callaghan, Ian Nagle, Duncan Williams, Zebo, Butler, O'Donnell, O'Mahoney, Murray etc) and also in the style that Penney seems to want them to play. The problem with putting this style in is that when it doesn;t work, you get very lateral movement, slow passing, static lines of 'running' etc. The forwards are aggressive again, mostly, which is great to see, but the backs are still a long way from being able to cut opponents to shreds yet. Yesterday i thought it was noticeable how quick the ball was going wide, especially in teh first half. I'd like to see them using Downey in a crash carrier role, with a couple of back rowers at the same craic. Then when you suck in the opposition a bit, fire it out. Zebo, Earls, Howlett and co can all finish, but when you're running against a defensive line that's basically sitting there waiting for you, it requires magic, rather than numbers or lines of running to carve them open. At the moment Munster are running 5 v 5 movements instead of 5 v 4 or 5 v 3, or even 6 v 4 or 3.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 22, 2012, 12:48:02 PM
For what it's worth i think the 8 quarter-finalists are already known - Clermont, Toulon, Toulouse, Saracens, Harlequins, Ulster, Leinster, Leicester...
Agree re the 6 winners, and I think its fair to say Leinster are in pole position for a best runners-up (although only if they get a win v Clermont), but the second runners-up spot is wide open.
Wouldnt rule out Munster yet. 10 points v Racing and Edinburgh are almost guaranteed, then 4 or 5 points out of the two games v Saracens would see them on 20/21 points, which would be there or thereabouts in terms of a best runner up spot.
But a lot of those younger lads aren't that young, their development has been severely stunted and I'm not sure the majority have what it takes to be in a top 8 side in Europe (a place where Munster need to be). Apart from Hanrahan and O'Mahony I don't see any future Foleys, O'Garas, O'Connells, Wallaces, Stringers etc..
Dougall (23) - Don't think he will be anything more that a Squad player
Sherry (24) - Potential international
Hanrahan (20) - Future Star
O'Dea (22) - Squad Player
Barnes (23)- Squad Player
Dave O'Callaghan (22) - Squad Player
Ian Nagle (24) - Needs a move
Duncan Williams (26) - Just not good enough
Zebo (22) - He's getting better, good player and deserves to start in the Ai
Butler (22) - Squad Player
O'Donnell (25) - Is he even a squad player?
O'Mahoney (23) - Not a fan to be honest - earning international honours too soon but has potential
Murray (23) - Inconsistent at the moment but still the best scrum-half in Ireland
QuoteI'd like to see them using Downey in a crash carrier role, with a couple of back rowers at the same craic. Then when you suck in the opposition a bit, fire it out. Zebo, Earls, Howlett and co can all finish, but when you're running against a defensive line that's basically sitting there waiting for you, it requires magic, rather than numbers or lines of running to carve them open. At the moment Munster are running 5 v 5 movements instead of 5 v 4 or 5 v 3, or even 6 v 4 or 3.
I know what are you saying but you need to be careful, Munster are trying to playing heads-up rugby and identify where the space is, from watching them it's a bit obvious that the players are not sure of how to implement this and are going lateral to early, it will take time for them to learn. Munster have always played within a very rigid structure, keep it tight up front, attack narrow, recycle, attack narrow, kick to corner or up in the air, bring up disciplined line chase, force error or penalty and repeat. But rugby has evolved and teams were seeing Munster as an easy opponent to play against - defend narrow, commit bodies to the ruck - force turnover etc etc. The balance for Munster needs to be right, they in my opinion are missing David Wallace more than one else, brilliant on the ball but brilliant off it in terms of his effectiveness in the tackle and his pure strength at ruck time. Munster are torn between years of patterned rugby as opposed to the now more heads up approach it will come but will probably need the retirement of O'Gara and to lesser extent O'Connell to truly evolve.
I think you are right about the pattern of play, and sure hopefully we'll see it develop. I think you might be a bit hard on some of the lads on the list thought. They might not be top notch, but they are better than what was coming out of the academy 3 or 4 years ago.
I saw Duncan Williams a couple of times this season, and I think he's not as poor as you might think. His speed from ruck to ruck is very impressive, and he can generate very quick ball. Not nearly as strong as Murray, but he's a decent change of pace.
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2012, 02:12:22 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 22, 2012, 12:48:02 PM
For what it's worth i think the 8 quarter-finalists are already known - Clermont, Toulon, Toulouse, Saracens, Harlequins, Ulster, Leinster, Leicester...
Agree re the 6 winners, and I think its fair to say Leinster are in pole position for a best runners-up (although only if they get a win v Clermont), but the second runners-up spot is wide open.
Wouldnt rule out Munster yet. 10 points v Racing and Edinburgh are almost guaranteed, then 4 or 5 points out of the two games v Saracens would see them on 20/21 points, which would be there or thereabouts in terms of a best runner up spot.
Maybe but I'm struggling to be optimistic about Munster at home to Saracens, it's the kind of game Saracens will relish. Wouldn't rule out RM either, if their interested they could well get 10 points against Edinburgh leaving the final group games in that pool very interesting.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 22, 2012, 02:28:44 PM
I think you are right about the pattern of play, and sure hopefully we'll see it develop. I think you might be a bit hard on some of the lads on the list thought. They might not be top notch, but they are better than what was coming out of the academy 3 or 4 years ago.
I saw Duncan Williams a couple of times this season, and I think he's not as poor as you might think. His speed from ruck to ruck is very impressive, and he can generate very quick ball. Not nearly as strong as Murray, but he's a decent change of pace.
I'm not harsh AZ, if Munster want to be top 8 in Europe a lot of those players won't get them there or keep them there either. Duncan Williams is 26, compare him to Kieran Marmion 20 playing for Connacht, I can only see one of them playing for Ireland...
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2012, 02:12:22 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 22, 2012, 12:48:02 PM
For what it's worth i think the 8 quarter-finalists are already known - Clermont, Toulon, Toulouse, Saracens, Harlequins, Ulster, Leinster, Leicester...
Agree re the 6 winners, and I think its fair to say Leinster are in pole position for a best runners-up (although only if they get a win v Clermont), but the second runners-up spot is wide open.
Wouldnt rule out Munster yet. 10 points v Racing and Edinburgh are almost guaranteed, then 4 or 5 points out of the two games v Saracens would see them on 20/21 points, which would be there or thereabouts in terms of a best runner up spot.
They have already lost to Racing away and four tries against Edinburgh away is not a given.
Anyone think that the standard of the games seems to be well down this year, as does the level of individual player skill. The amount of basic mistakes in the matches has been unreal.
Quote from: Olaf on October 22, 2012, 03:43:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2012, 02:12:22 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 22, 2012, 12:48:02 PM
For what it's worth i think the 8 quarter-finalists are already known - Clermont, Toulon, Toulouse, Saracens, Harlequins, Ulster, Leinster, Leicester...
Agree re the 6 winners, and I think its fair to say Leinster are in pole position for a best runners-up (although only if they get a win v Clermont), but the second runners-up spot is wide open.
Wouldnt rule out Munster yet. 10 points v Racing and Edinburgh are almost guaranteed, then 4 or 5 points out of the two games v Saracens would see them on 20/21 points, which would be there or thereabouts in terms of a best runner up spot.
They have already lost to Racing away and four tries against Edinburgh away is not a given.
He means 5 points v Racing at home, and 5 points v Edinburgh away, + 5 points v Saracens out of 10 would make them be on 20 points. They have 6 points already.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 22, 2012, 02:24:42 PM
But a lot of those younger lads aren't that young, their development has been severely stunted and I'm not sure the majority have what it takes to be in a top 8 side in Europe (a place where Munster need to be). Apart from Hanrahan and O'Mahony I don't see any future Foleys, O'Garas, O'Connells, Wallaces, Stringers etc..
Dougall (23) - Don't think he will be anything more that a Squad player
Sherry (24) - Potential international
Hanrahan (20) - Future Star
O'Dea (22) - Squad Player
Barnes (23)- Squad Player
Dave O'Callaghan (22) - Squad Player
Ian Nagle (24) - Needs a move
Duncan Williams (26) - Just not good enough
Zebo (22) - He's getting better, good player and deserves to start in the Ai
Butler (22) - Squad Player
O'Donnell (25) - Is he even a squad player?
O'Mahoney (23) - Not a fan to be honest - earning international honours too soon but has potential
Murray (23) - Inconsistent at the moment but still the best scrum-half in Ireland
QuoteI'd like to see them using Downey in a crash carrier role, with a couple of back rowers at the same craic. Then when you suck in the opposition a bit, fire it out. Zebo, Earls, Howlett and co can all finish, but when you're running against a defensive line that's basically sitting there waiting for you, it requires magic, rather than numbers or lines of running to carve them open. At the moment Munster are running 5 v 5 movements instead of 5 v 4 or 5 v 3, or even 6 v 4 or 3.
I know what are you saying but you need to be careful, Munster are trying to playing heads-up rugby and identify where the space is, from watching them it's a bit obvious that the players are not sure of how to implement this and are going lateral to early, it will take time for them to learn. Munster have always played within a very rigid structure, keep it tight up front, attack narrow, recycle, attack narrow, kick to corner or up in the air, bring up disciplined line chase, force error or penalty and repeat. But rugby has evolved and teams were seeing Munster as an easy opponent to play against - defend narrow, commit bodies to the ruck - force turnover etc etc. The balance for Munster needs to be right, they in my opinion are missing David Wallace more than one else, brilliant on the ball but brilliant off it in terms of his effectiveness in the tackle and his pure strength at ruck time. Munster are torn between years of patterned rugby as opposed to the now more heads up approach it will come but will probably need the retirement of O'Gara and to lesser extent O'Connell to truly evolve.
Agree with most Dinny except the bits in bold. Luke O'Dea was a brilliant underage player and shone through on Ireland teams when there was barely any Munster representation especially in terms of backs! Any time he has played for Munster he has impressed as a back with real pace and finishing ability who is as comfortable at 13 as he is on the wing. Injuries have set him back a bit this season but expect to see him after Christmas in the Rabo games. He'll definitely benifit from the new game plan Munster are trying to play.
Also Butler was a top ball carring no. 8 for Ireland at u20 level and good footballer too straight out of the Anthony Foley mould of Munster backrows. It's widely known that he didn't get on with McGahan for whatever reason ( I was reliable informed it was just a simple personality clash ) and nearly walked last year which would explain why we haven't seen more of him uptil now but he should devlope into the ball carrying no. 8 Munster need over the next couple of seasons. He along with O'Dea are definitely potential future internationals from what I have seen of them albeit playing A and underage rugby!
Tommy O' Donnell is worth his place in the squad and while not a top tier seven he can do a job especially in a scrappy game but his body doesn't match his bravery which could be a problem re injuries. Nagle was always injury prone and this has always held him back since schools rugby so while he has the talent I'm not sure if he'll come good because of this. Also Munster will have a logjam at hooker soon enough which will probably benifit Leinster and hopefully Connacht with James Rael and Niall Scannell two top notch prospects coming through.Dave Kilcoyne (a Connacht man) is a cracking hard nosed ball carrying young loose head but with a good bit to learn at scrum time, He's is definitely one to watch and well capable of taking full advantage of Du Preez's injury. Then there is also Felix Jones to come back from injury so Penny has plenty of young talent to work with.
I do think as you have said they are going to have to be patient with the change in emphasis to heads up runnin rugby and if Penny can marry some fo the traditional mauling forward play to this they'll be onto a winner. I wouldn't be surprised if Rhy Ruddock ends up at Munster next year especially with the talent breathing down his neck from Leinster's underage ranks and he's the type of backrow Munster need at the moment along with Butler and O'Mahoney!
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 22, 2012, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 22, 2012, 02:28:44 PM
I think you are right about the pattern of play, and sure hopefully we'll see it develop. I think you might be a bit hard on some of the lads on the list thought. They might not be top notch, but they are better than what was coming out of the academy 3 or 4 years ago.
I saw Duncan Williams a couple of times this season, and I think he's not as poor as you might think. His speed from ruck to ruck is very impressive, and he can generate very quick ball. Not nearly as strong as Murray, but he's a decent change of pace.
I'm not harsh AZ, if Munster want to be top 8 in Europe a lot of those players won't get them there or keep them there either. Duncan Williams is 26, compare him to Kieran Marmion 20 playing for Connacht, I can only see one of them playing for Ireland...
No doubt, but what I'm saying is that it's better than what was coming out. There's the bones of a decent team there, but as you say the real superstars are missing. Are they going to be local lads, or imports? Leinster are obviously miles and miles ahead in their academy, but they had a huge head start because when Munster were making hay, Leinster were grooming Kearney, Fitzgerald, O'Brien, Sexton, Madigan, et al. Munster will catch up, but it is going to take time. Hopefully Earls, Zebo, Murray and Hanrahan can start the process.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 22, 2012, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 22, 2012, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 22, 2012, 02:28:44 PM
I think you are right about the pattern of play, and sure hopefully we'll see it develop. I think you might be a bit hard on some of the lads on the list thought. They might not be top notch, but they are better than what was coming out of the academy 3 or 4 years ago.
I saw Duncan Williams a couple of times this season, and I think he's not as poor as you might think. His speed from ruck to ruck is very impressive, and he can generate very quick ball. Not nearly as strong as Murray, but he's a decent change of pace.
I'm not harsh AZ, if Munster want to be top 8 in Europe a lot of those players won't get them there or keep them there either. Duncan Williams is 26, compare him to Kieran Marmion 20 playing for Connacht, I can only see one of them playing for Ireland...
No doubt, but what I'm saying is that it's better than what was coming out. There's the bones of a decent team there, but as you say the real superstars are missing. Are they going to be local lads, or imports? Leinster are obviously miles and miles ahead in their academy, but they had a huge head start because when Munster were making hay, Leinster were grooming Kearney, Fitzgerald, O'Brien, Sexton, Madigan, et al. Munster will catch up, but it is going to take time. Hopefully Earls, Zebo, Murray and Hanrahan can start the process.
The Leinster Academy is a little over-hyped - they produce players through sheer numbers playing the game in Leinster relative to the rest of the country. Ealrs and Zebo though are and Hanrahan I hope will be as good as anything Leinster have produced in the last 5 years.
I think this Munster squad is coming together nicely for the next couple of years. Hanrahan will be a class act, Murray is a fine young improving scrum half, O Mahony and Stander will give Munster a strong back row. Ryan will move into second row to partner O Connell. Botha and Kilkoyne will be props. They are well catered for at hooker with Varley, Sherry and Scannell for next year at hooker.
Onto the outside backs, they have Zebo, Howlett, Earls, Lalala?, Felix Jones.
No mention of O Gara or Keatley from me I am not excited by either at this stage although O Gara could still save a game for them.They still have a potentially strong team. Maybe not as good as Leinster but I think Saracens will know all about it in a months time.
Quote10 points v Racing and Edinburgh are almost guaranteed,
I wouldn't agree that bonus point wins against either are almost guaranteed. Sure they are achievable but are far from guaranteed.
True Edinburgh are most likely out of the competition already but it is very difficult to win away from home in the first place - let alone to score 4 tries.
As regards Racing in the last game - that would be highly dependant on how they do in the double header against Edinburgh. If they were to win both they'd be back in contention.
That said I would be more hopeful of the bonus point against Racing at home than Edinburgh away.
Did anybody see Munsters rabo 12 game tonight? Did JJ Hanrahan impress?
(http://cache.tcm.ie/media/images/i/IanKeatleyMunster2012_large.jpg)
JJ Hanrahan marked his first start for Munster with two tries and a man-of-the-match display as they beat Zebre at Thomond Park.
An uninspiring first half produced just six points, with Ian Keatley and Zebre's Australian centre Daniel Halangahu striking a single penalty apiece.
But Munster found an extra gear or two after that, inviting Hanrahan, twice, and Felix Jones through for tries and Luke O'Dea dotted down for a 76th-minute bonus-point score.
It was a penalty-riddled start to proceedings in Limerick. The Italians settled quickly, although their captain Gonzalo Garcia skewed a penalty from his own half well wide.
Munster took a quarter of an hour to get within striking distance and Keatley drew his first penalty attempt wide in the 18th minute.
Taking Casey Laulala out of the equation, the Munster back-line had an average age of 23 with Laulala's centre partner Hanrahan (20) making his full debut, while stand-in captain Peter O'Mahony led a back row averaging 22.
Munster number eight Paddy Butler was guilty of obstruction off the back of a scrum but Halangahu was unable to convert the resulting kick from the left.
Zebre, with their heavy pack putting their weight about, went off their feet at a central ruck in the 26th minute, allowing Keatley to kick the hosts ahead.
However, both sides struggled to retain possession and build attacks with referee Neil Hennessy eager to keep on top of a messy breakdown and scrum.
Halangahu had the final say before half-time, splitting the posts with his first successful kick after the Italians put pressure on in the scrum.
Five-and-a-half minutes into the second half, Munster finally unlocked the Zebre defence. Hanrahan backed himself, darting through a gap on the right and getting past Luca Martinelli near the line for a well-taken try.
Keatley converted and just before the hour mark, Jones jinked past four defenders on a eye-catching surge to the whitewash which will have pleased watching Ireland boss Declan Kidney.
With Rob Kearney sidelined through injury, the fit-again Jones looks set to earn a call-up in the coming days for Ireland's November internationals.
The full-back's 56th-minute try was converted by Keatley who supplied the assist and the extras for Hanrahan's second, as the Kerry youngster gobbled up a teasing grubber from the number 10.
With Zebre tiring and Munster finding holes out wide, O'Dea and Jones threatened again before Laulala drew a couple of defenders and passed for O'Dea to finish off the night's scoring in the right corner.
A big win for Connaught this evening against Biarritz.
I think the true spirit of Irish rugby has drifted from Thomond to the Sportsground.
Quote from: Main Street on December 07, 2012, 10:00:23 PM
A big win for Connaught this evening against Biarritz.
I think the true spirit of Irish rugby has drifted from Thomond to the Sportsground.
I'm sorry but Dan Parks outclassing Dimitri Yachvilli is a sign of the apocalypse, start praying. Amazing win for Connaught.
Great performance from Ulster tonight. How many teams get a bonus point win away to Northampton? A repeat performance next week and Ulster can start thinking about a home quarter final tie.
Wondering if any of ye can help, I'm home for christmas and I see Ulster are playing Glasgow on the weekend of the 12th of January and wouldn't mind heading to it. Though tickets aren't on sale (I suspect because a firm date has not been set) any idea when the date will be set and when tickets would go on sale?
Fair play to Connacht, that was a big scalp.
On a seperate note, what is it with people spelling the name of our province, both the team and the province are Connacht.
Spelling it Connaught is akin to spelling Derry as Londonderry as far as I am concerned.
Was at the Ulster game last night. Was like a home game with the Ulster crowd in full voice. Despite being very much in the minority. They completely dominated every facet of the game. Saints were pretty rubbish to be fair.
Went to the match last night. Expected more from Northampton but Ulster were dominant. From tactics, tackling and flair it was very impressive. It takes a bit of luck to get to back to back Heineken finals but who knows? Bowe and Trimble let Gilroy know what it takes to cement a place in a first class team...Best took one (two or three) for the cause from Hartley but I'm sure he has had worse in his time.
The Edgar Mobbs Way now links the soccer and rugby grounds....any chance of an extension to Sons of Erin (current Warks County Intermediate Champions) to complete the holy trilogy of sport?
Aw great game today, Clermont are a savage team, got fucked over a few times by the ref as well. Bonniare, Parra, Fofana, Rougerie and Zachvilli are world class. Leinster will take them at home next week though, a good result in the absence of some important players. Madigan looked composed but was very weak under the high ball, didn't compete for one all day.
The headlines should read 'Leinster win the bonus point' and 'Munster concede the bonus point'.
Munster may well rue their inability to hold onto the 9 point lead. Their play in that last 20 minutes was marked by degrees of sloppiness and poor decision making, a far cry from their trademark ability of old, to close out a game with 'anti-rugby' tactics.
Are these highlights on TG4 doing anyone else's head in??
Super performance by Ulster. Northampton aren't the team they used to be, but that doesn't take away from Ulster's play. I thought Trimble in particular was excellent.
Disappointing in the end from Leinster. If their lineout had held up, they'd probably have come away with the draw which would have left winning the group as an attainable objective. Now they are pretty much playing for one of the best runners up places. 3 wins should get that, but one mistake and they're out. And even then 3 wins will mean an away quarter-final against a top seed.
Quote from: lfdown2 on December 08, 2012, 12:15:47 PM
Wondering if any of ye can help, I'm home for christmas and I see Ulster are playing Glasgow on the weekend of the 12th of January and wouldn't mind heading to it. Though tickets aren't on sale (I suspect because a firm date has not been set) any idea when the date will be set and when tickets would go on sale?
Anyone?
Quote from: lfdown2 on December 12, 2012, 12:17:21 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on December 08, 2012, 12:15:47 PM
Wondering if any of ye can help, I'm home for christmas and I see Ulster are playing Glasgow on the weekend of the 12th of January and wouldn't mind heading to it. Though tickets aren't on sale (I suspect because a firm date has not been set) any idea when the date will be set and when tickets would go on sale?
Anyone?
usually the date and time of round 5/6 fixtures are set the monday/tuesday after round 4. so fixtures will be released by the ERC next monday or tuesday when the pools are decided and tv companies can pick which games they want to show and which games are the big games as to quarter final spots to put at prime time for tv
Quote from: ormond lad on December 12, 2012, 12:44:52 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on December 12, 2012, 12:17:21 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on December 08, 2012, 12:15:47 PM
Wondering if any of ye can help, I'm home for christmas and I see Ulster are playing Glasgow on the weekend of the 12th of January and wouldn't mind heading to it. Though tickets aren't on sale (I suspect because a firm date has not been set) any idea when the date will be set and when tickets would go on sale?
Anyone?
usually the date and time of round 5/6 fixtures are set the monday/tuesday after round 4. so fixtures will be released by the ERC next monday or tuesday when the pools are decided and tv companies can pick which games they want to show and which games are the big games as to quarter final spots to put at prime time for tv
Cheers,
I thought I heard on the sports news that Mike McCarthy was poached by Leinster from ConnACHT, effective immediately, but it's an end of the season move.
Not that I wouldn't put it past Leinster to poach the best Connacht players in mid-season, if they could. ;D
Connacht have nine former Leinster Senior or Leinster U20s in their senior squad: Matt Healy, Kyle Tonetti, Dave McSharry, Paul O'Donohoe, Davey Moore, Mick Kearney, Dave Gannon, Jason Harris-Wright and Nathan White.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 10:46:09 AM
Connacht have nine former Leinster Senior or Leinster U20s in their senior squad: Matt Healy, Kyle Tonetti, Dave McSharry, Paul O'Donohoe, Davey Moore, Mick Kearney, Dave Gannon, Jason Harris-Wright and Nathan White.
Ian Keatley was with Leinster but couldn't make the break through and switched to Connacht and his form then got him a move to Munster. Eric Elwood seems to get the best out of young talent, Tiernan O Halloran looks a very promising player. Elwood will be a big loss for Connacht at the end of the season.
How does this work? Does the IRFU, who own the player contracts, as I understand it, not have rules about transfers to prevent this kind of stuff? The stronger sides are allowed to treat Connacht as an academy, or a feeder club for themselves, thereby perpetuating their superiority over Connacht by cutting all development of talent there off at the root.
This isn't the GAA it's professional rugby, Mike McCarthy is English born of Irish heritage, he has played for Wasps, Newcastle and Connacht. He is now 31 and is entitled to get the best deal for him and this will be close to the last contract, Leinster offered him a better deal than Connacht. He is quite right to take it as he will be better coached, has a better chance of winning something and will help provide greater security for his young family.
If he didn't join Leinster odds are he would have joined a French club.
How does that work Dinny? I know some of the contracts at least are 'central' contracts, but how are they actually structured? Are you contracted to the IRFU who decide where you play, or is your contract to Leinster, Munster or whoever?
If the contracts are with the individual provinces, is there a limit on who can move where, or is it simple marked demand? i.e. if Leinster can afford to pay X euro for Craig Gilroy for example, are they free to make an approach to him?
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 12, 2012, 11:26:44 AM
How does that work Dinny? I know some of the contracts at least are 'central' contracts, but how are they actually structured? Are you contracted to the IRFU who decide where you play, or is your contract to Leinster, Munster or whoever?
If the contracts are with the individual provinces, is there a limit on who can move where, or is it simple marked demand? i.e. if Leinster can afford to pay X euro for Craig Gilroy for example, are they free to make an approach to him?
Just while we're on the subject of Leinster and wingers, what is the story with Luke Fitzgerald?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 11:17:41 AM
This isn't the GAA it's professional rugby, Mike McCarthy is English born of Irish heritage, he has played for Wasps, Newcastle and Connacht. He is now 31 and is entitled to get the best deal for him and this will be close to the last contract, Leinster offered him a better deal than Connacht. He is quite right to take it as he will be better coached, has a better chance of winning something and will help provide greater security for his young family.
If he didn't join Leinster odds are he would have joined a French club.
No need for the condescension, Dinny. I am aware that it is rugby and not GAA.
I was simply asking whether the IRFU had a policy on transfers. The current situation seems to put Connacht at a disadvantage and perpetuate their status as underdogs. The IRFU has control of contracts and thus could prevent this apparently unfair treatment of one of their units. So if anyone has a civil answer ...
I was curious once upon a time to find out about this central contract business on the IRFU site, but in vain.
The masons are more transparent ::)
The IRFU contracts the international standard players like O'Driscoll for varying amounts of cash.
All the contract players are somehow spread out amongst the 3 provinces, Connacht do not benefit from this directly but have another agreed system with the IRFU.
After that, comes so many questions.
McCarthy, is a free agent of sorts with no irfu contract, he can choose where to go, depending on his contract with Connacht of course.
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 12, 2012, 11:26:44 AM
How does that work Dinny? I know some of the contracts at least are 'central' contracts, but how are they actually structured? Are you contracted to the IRFU who decide where you play, or is your contract to Leinster, Munster or whoever?
If the contracts are with the individual provinces, is there a limit on who can move where, or is it simple marked demand? i.e. if Leinster can afford to pay X euro for Craig Gilroy for example, are they free to make an approach to him?
The thing to note about Irish Rugby is that the National Team account for 80% of revenues generated by the IRFU but only account for 25% of the costs. This is the key factor in all decisions, the welfare of the National Team is the bottom line. So the Professional Provinces who generate less than 20% of the IRFU revenue but account for 40% of the costs would not be able to exist without substantial funding. The IRFU spend in excess of €31m on professional costs, this would include all coaching costs of the Irish and Provincial teams.
Now the central contract thing is a weird one, I think there is approx 22 in circulation with the likes of POC and BOD earning in excess of €300k a year. The Player Advisory Group (PAG) decide what players get contracts based on the needs of the National team and not the provinces. The benefits of a central contract to the Provinces is that it it not included in their wage budget meaning in theory the more centrals contracts in their squad the more they can spend on other players. So in Leinster's case having Heaslip, Healy, Ross, O'Brien (I think), Sexton, D'Arcy (unbelievably got 2 year ext this year) BOD and Kearney on central contracts aligned to commercial revenues (16K+ season tickets, sponsorships, merchandising etc) means they can offer non-CC players better deals hence Mike McCarthy will get a much better deal at Leinster. The PAG can stop non-Irish eligible players from been signed and will also try and dictate where returning Irish players should sign for, i.e. you had the PAG pushing for Bowe to sign for Munster and instead we now have 3 Irish wingers playing for Ulster.
If Mike McCarthy had gotten a Central Contract he probably would have stayed at Connacht but as Ireland already have 3 centrally contracted 2nd rows they were never going to give out a 4th. It's a very flawed system but I'm not sure if the alternative completely empower the Provinces is any better.
Quote from: Hardy on December 12, 2012, 12:18:02 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 11:17:41 AM
This isn't the GAA it's professional rugby, Mike McCarthy is English born of Irish heritage, he has played for Wasps, Newcastle and Connacht. He is now 31 and is entitled to get the best deal for him and this will be close to the last contract, Leinster offered him a better deal than Connacht. He is quite right to take it as he will be better coached, has a better chance of winning something and will help provide greater security for his young family.
If he didn't join Leinster odds are he would have joined a French club.
No need for the condescension, Dinny. I am aware that it is rugby and not GAA.
I was simply asking whether the IRFU had a policy on transfers. The current situation seems to put Connacht at a disadvantage and perpetuate their status as underdogs. The IRFU has control of contracts and thus could prevent this apparently unfair treatment of one of their units. So if anyone has a civil answer ...
God your sensitive today, I was just making the point that Professional Sport without salary cap guidelines can be dog eat dog where the rich nearly always prevail. I have elaborated somewhat above, in that the IRFU do not have a internal transfer policy but everything is suppose to based on the National Team so in Mike McCarthy's instance they would be happier to see him play for Leinster (higher standard, better coaching etc). While I appreciate the perpetuation of that and can see why long term it would be better for Irish to really develop Connacht as a force the IRFU tend to view short-term as they need Irish rugby to be successful now.
I stated the GAA because although somewhat flawed they do have a transfer system that is somewhat kinder to the smaller clubs although that would vary from county to county.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 10:46:09 AM
Connacht have nine former Leinster Senior or Leinster U20s in their senior squad: Matt Healy, Kyle Tonetti, Dave McSharry, Paul O'Donohoe, Davey Moore, Mick Kearney, Dave Gannon, Jason Harris-Wright and Nathan White.
Lot of them were surplus to requirements though at Leinster. A few of them actually came to Connacht from clubs in England. At least one came from the AIL. McSharry I believe wasn't even offered a Leinster academy contract so Connacht offered him one.
The way Dinny put it, you'd think Leinster were doing Connacht a favour by throwing a few crumbs their way, from their rich IRFU subsided squad ;D
So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 12, 2012, 01:57:06 PM
So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?
That's it in a nutshell.
Connacht have a role to play in Irish Rugby and in fairness to them they are evolving on and off the pitch, whether they ever hit the heights of Munster/Leinster I don't know but from next season they'll be better served as the Professional game in Ireland will soon be run by a professional body and not the Blazers and their political agendas.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 02:06:07 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 12, 2012, 01:57:06 PM
So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?
That's it in a nutshell.
Connacht have a role to play in Irish Rugby and in fairness to them they are evolving on and off the pitch, whether they ever hit the heights of Munster/Leinster I don't know but from next season they'll be better served as the Professional game in Ireland will soon be run by a professional body and not the Blazers and their political agendas.
There'll be downsides to that too. Interested by your words on the PAG, can they only advise where players can go (i.e Bowe) and dictate what foreign players can sign? Any examples of foreign moves they have prevented? Who are the two Ulster PAG wingers and 3 current 2nd row's? Trimble, Gilroy - POC, DOC, Cullen?
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 12, 2012, 01:57:06 PM
So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?
In fairness unless all money was collected centrally and dispersed equally like the GAA you will always have rich and poor clubs. The lack of centrally contracted players would just weaken Irish rugby when it was in a lull. Commercial brand's like Munster/ Leinster will always have financial pull over Connaught for the foreseeable future. I understand the treatment of Connaught as a feeder club weakens it's commercial appeal to the public though. What's the point in development if you aren't allowed to get anywhere?
1 - It's Connacht :)
2 - I agree, I was just wondering how it was set up.
Quote from: trileacman on December 12, 2012, 02:41:48 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 02:06:07 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 12, 2012, 01:57:06 PM
So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?
That's it in a nutshell.
Connacht have a role to play in Irish Rugby and in fairness to them they are evolving on and off the pitch, whether they ever hit the heights of Munster/Leinster I don't know but from next season they'll be better served as the Professional game in Ireland will soon be run by a professional body and not the Blazers and their political agendas.
There'll be downsides to that too. Interested by your words on the PAG, can they only advise where players can go (i.e Bowe) and dictate what foreign players can sign? Any examples of foreign moves they have prevented? Who are the two Ulster PAG wingers and 3 current 2nd row's? Trimble, Gilroy - POC, DOC, Cullen?
More or less but Leinster wanted to sign Donnacha Ryan (your 3rd CC 2nd row) and it wasn't sanctioned a couple of season ago.
Leinster wanted to resign Nathan White but it wasn't sanctioned and the PAG moved him to Connacht instead. They were also only allowed offer Nathan Hines a 1 one year extension, needless to say he fecked off to France.
Gilroy isn't CC'd but Bowe and Trimble are.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 10:46:09 AM
Connacht have nine former Leinster Senior or Leinster U20s in their senior squad: Matt Healy, Kyle Tonetti, Dave McSharry, Paul O'Donohoe, Davey Moore, Mick Kearney, Dave Gannon, Jason Harris-Wright and Nathan White.
Kyle Tonetti was signed from Sale where had played since been let go by Leinster the previous season. Dave McSharry wasn't deemed good enough for a development contract with Leinster so Connacht picked him up when he impressed for St Mary's in the AIL. Paul O' Donohoe and Dave Moore were both released or about to be released by Leinster and this due to lack of game time was the reason the joined Connacht. Mick Kearney didn't have his short academy contract renewed so subsequently joined Connacht which was a surprise given Leinster short comings at second row both senior and at underage level. Dave Gannon wasn't even given a development contract at Leinster after captaining the Ireland U21's to a world cup final and told to play AIL but instead opted to play for Connacht instead before going on to be the first non New Zealand(or imported Islander) born player to play in a NPC final and is now in his second stint with Connacht.
Jason Harris-Wright was seen as a token sop to the peasants in the west over the way Leinster took advantage of Connacht being restricted to offerring one year contracts only to players when they signed Croinin. Nathan White is termed a project player (i.e. will qualify to play for Ireland under the 3 year residency rule ala C.J Stander , Richard Strauss etc...) and when Leinster signed Hagan at the same time as Croinin the IRFU restricted them from resigning White as they already had established players in Mike Ross and Hagan with young players like Jack McGrath, Jack O' Connell and Tagh Furlong to be developed.So they felt ,rightly so ,that a move to Connacht or Munster would be of greater benefit to White and the younger props so he signed for Connacht.
They point I am getting at is a lot of Leinster fans( on other forums) are a bit pissed off at the Connacht boys moaning about McCarthy's move and use the" sure they have loads of Leinster players anyway" stick to beat us with when in reality Leinster wanted none of these players with the exception of White when Connacht signed them and it was Connacht who developed their potential (or will develop) when Leinster, Munster or Ulster invariably come calling at a later stage. Also for us Connacht fans the real reason these players move is because they have to if they want a central contract from the IRFU (and regular international rugby) and all the big three provinces do is take advantage of this political discrimination. Mike McCarthy's only choice would be to take the view Gavin Duffy and Johhny O' Connor did as Connacht men and move to England or France rather than playing for a rival province but while they would gain more Irish caps than when playing for Connacht they would still be on the outside compared to playing for the big three and have to play much more games which would inevitably shorten your career!It was a catch 22 for Macca and I think he made the right choice for himself and Ireland so good luck to him with Leinster as long as he plays crap against Connacht next year ;D.
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 12, 2012, 11:26:44 AM
How does that work Dinny? I know some of the contracts at least are 'central' contracts, but how are they actually structured? Are you contracted to the IRFU who decide where you play, or is your contract to Leinster, Munster or whoever?
If the contracts are with the individual provinces, is there a limit on who can move where, or is it simple marked demand? i.e. if Leinster can afford to pay X euro for Craig Gilroy for example, are they free to make an approach to him?
IRFU centrally contracts around 22 players. They are the top players like Donnacha Ryan, Paul o Connell, Brian O Driscoll, Sexton, Bowe,
Each province then contracts the rest of their squad.
IRFU can influence players where they play. Players can be tempted to move province by being offered central contracts
Leinster are free to approach Gilroy if they wanted to but the IRFU have to approve all transfers so the move would be rejected
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 03:20:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 12, 2012, 02:41:48 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 02:06:07 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 12, 2012, 01:57:06 PM
So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?
That's it in a nutshell.
Connacht have a role to play in Irish Rugby and in fairness to them they are evolving on and off the pitch, whether they ever hit the heights of Munster/Leinster I don't know but from next season they'll be better served as the Professional game in Ireland will soon be run by a professional body and not the Blazers and their political agendas.
There'll be downsides to that too. Interested by your words on the PAG, can they only advise where players can go (i.e Bowe) and dictate what foreign players can sign? Any examples of foreign moves they have prevented? Who are the two Ulster PAG wingers and 3 current 2nd row's? Trimble, Gilroy - POC, DOC, Cullen?
More or less but Leinster wanted to sign Donnacha Ryan (your 3rd CC 2nd row) and it wasn't sanctioned a couple of season ago.
Leinster wanted to resign Nathan White but it wasn't sanctioned and the PAG moved him to Connacht instead. They were also only allowed offer Nathan Hines a 1 one year extension, needless to say he fecked off to France.
Gilroy isn't CC'd but Bowe and Trimble are.
Leinster did want to sign Donnacha Ryan and Donnacha seriously was looking at moving to dublin but eventually he decided to stay and fight it out in munster for a first team place. Leinster never got to stage of PAG sanctioning a move for Don Ryan
The reason why I listed those players is that it highlights how well Connacht have done out of the Leinster Academy with none of the expense of developing young talent. Connacht have developed as a team thanks to these players, you could argue that the Leinster Academy is an important cog in the Connacht system as their own academy, giving a player game time is only part of the development, skills and game understanding are developed at a very much younger age.
Some Leinster fans would annoy with the 'Man United' like syndrome of entitlement but the an béal bocht that comes from Connacht fans is equally annoying.
Anyhow Connacht are progressing and they should progress further under a new coach (have been at seminars with Elwood and to be honest he's not the greatest technical coach) and hopefully the Irish Rugby Tzar will give them more structure and a more equal footing.
Quote from: ormond lad on December 12, 2012, 05:31:39 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 03:20:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 12, 2012, 02:41:48 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 02:06:07 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 12, 2012, 01:57:06 PM
So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?
That's it in a nutshell.
Connacht have a role to play in Irish Rugby and in fairness to them they are evolving on and off the pitch, whether they ever hit the heights of Munster/Leinster I don't know but from next season they'll be better served as the Professional game in Ireland will soon be run by a professional body and not the Blazers and their political agendas.
There'll be downsides to that too. Interested by your words on the PAG, can they only advise where players can go (i.e Bowe) and dictate what foreign players can sign? Any examples of foreign moves they have prevented? Who are the two Ulster PAG wingers and 3 current 2nd row's? Trimble, Gilroy - POC, DOC, Cullen?
More or less but Leinster wanted to sign Donnacha Ryan (your 3rd CC 2nd row) and it wasn't sanctioned a couple of season ago.
Leinster wanted to resign Nathan White but it wasn't sanctioned and the PAG moved him to Connacht instead. They were also only allowed offer Nathan Hines a 1 one year extension, needless to say he fecked off to France.
Gilroy isn't CC'd but Bowe and Trimble are.
Leinster did want to sign Donnacha Ryan and Donnacha seriously was looking at moving to dublin but eventually he decided to stay and fight it out in munster for a first team place. Leinster never got to stage of PAG sanctioning a move for Don Ryan
Ah interesting so it was the player and not the PAG.
What's a Nenagh Ormond head doing on a GAA Board? Unless! is that you Donnacha? ;)
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 12, 2012, 02:51:51 PM
1 - It's Connacht :)
2 - I agree, I was just wondering how it was set up.
1- I know but it pisses Mayo@gmail off so I like spelling it that way. ;)
I see Connacht having a bit of a dig at Leinster in the papers today for 'persistantly' targetting their best players.
What do Connacht want? They have to make do with the current system or face not having a team!!!
I think that given the fact they were nearly scrapped a few years ago they are doing pretty well considering. The current system is flawed but it seems to be the best for Irish Rugby.
It's unseemly and unrugby-like for Connacht to be complaining about the class system.
How annoying it must be for those in the other provinces to have to listen to the Connacht wretches, whining about their condition.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 12, 2012, 05:39:26 PM
The reason why I listed those players is that it highlights how well Connacht have done out of the Leinster Academy with none of the expense of developing young talent. Connacht have developed as a team thanks to these players, you could argue that the Leinster Academy is an important cog in the Connacht system as their own academy, giving a player game time is only part of the development, skills and game understanding are developed at a very much younger age.
Some Leinster fans would annoy with the 'Man United' like syndrome of entitlement but the an béal bocht that comes from Connacht fans is equally annoying.
Anyhow Connacht are progressing and they should progress further under a new coach (have been at seminars with Elwood and to be honest he's not the greatest technical coach) and hopefully the Irish Rugby Tzar will give them more structure and a more equal footing.
The argument about the expense of developing these players in the academy is irrelevant as it's Leinster's problem if they weren't able to spot the talent in the likes of David Gannon/Mick Kearney/Dave McSharry etc... not Connacht's. The Connacht underage system was always efficient and effective in producing as many quality players as was possible but unlike the Leinster's didn't have the luxury of huge numbers piling in which even with terrible mismangement would still produce a decent 15 every year via the schools! Also when you have the big three even poaching talent from our academy like Munster with Sean Henry last year it doesn't help. In spite of this you have O'Halloran , Eoin McKeown , Eoin Griffin , Robbie Henshaw , Denis Buckley , Danny Qualter, Darragh Leader , Gavin Duffy , Ronan Loughney, Andrew Browne, Johnny O' Connor , Kieran Marmion , David Heffernan and many more in the first team squad. Then you have the like s of Shane Layden , Conor Finn , Jack Carty and Arron Coneely who were involved at Irish u 20 level and the fact Connacht won the last two u20 inter-provincial championships I would argue that Connacht get the best return on their investment and manage their scant resources the best of the provinces at the moment.
To level the Beal Bocht charge at us is a little harsh. It's hardly fair given the fact we have to operate with one hand tied behind our back. The IRFU tried to disband us twice. Then they refuse to allow us offer contracts of longer than one year to any of our players while we are under an IRFU review which Munster and Leinster used to their advantage to sign Keatly Croinin and Jamie Hagan by being able to dangle the huge carrot of three, yes three year contracts!!( I don't include Fionn Carr because he had planned to return to Leinster anyway). Also Connacht are forced to operate on a consistently smaller budget than the other three provinces. now you could say we didn't fight back enough and took most of this lying down but after Connacht took action and set up their own professional board to help develop the business and brand of Connacht rugby again the IRFU had to change the rules. When the board was asked to chose a CEO , the board , the finance committee and IRFU officer recommended and agreed to appoint a former Connacht player with a very impressive commercial business and marketing cv and lo and behold at the 11th hour an IRFU blazer pulled the name Tom Sears out of nowhere and informed Connacht if they wanted to keep the IRFU funding then this was the only man to put forward for final recommendation. Again could you imagine Munster , Ulster or Leinster being ordered by the IRFU to pick their man who wasn't even on a short list as their CEO?
So while you might think the Beal Bocht might be annoying it's even more annoying for Connacht fans and players to put up with the reality of the situation. Also while it's annoying for the rest of us to listen to the cocky arrogance of certain Leinster fans we can't really argue with 3 Heineken Cups in Four years 8).
PS I think Connacht put a bit of time and effort into developing Damien Browne and I don't hear many thanks from Leinster fans especially after his performance in Clermont! ;).
Any links to Leinster game?
Quote from: ApresMatch on December 15, 2012, 03:33:10 PM
Any links to Leinster game?
Using thefirstrow.eu
It's not it's usual self though, quite bitty.
Tough day at the office for Leinster.
Tight for Ulster.
How did the game go tonight compared to last week?. The score was very tight....amazing how a week can make a difference.
Quote from: hardstation on December 15, 2012, 11:36:38 PM
I watched this. Ulster were pure shite. Couldn't houl on to the ball if you put it up their jumper. Trimble was pathetic and was whipped aff. Peenour had a late kick to win her. Garbage.
Shite match. Ulster deserved to be beaten.
First time had seen Ulster this season. They were brutal and architects of their own downfall, so many handling errors it was ridiculous. Looked very far from a potential Heineken Cup winning team.
10 all in Munster match. Game on.
Munster laboured to that win over a poor enough Edinburgh team... Judging by that performance Munster will only get a bonus point win if Racing do the usual French away stunt and send the B team...
At the minute our Boys are the only ones in the Quarter Final positions at the end of Round 5
At the moment, Munster are effectively in the final qualifying position. Leicester play Toulouse next week, so that pushes the loser out of the reckoning
In terms of best 2nd placers, if teams finish level on points the first tie-break is tries scored, the next is points difference.
At the moment Munster have 9 tries and are +37, while Leinster have 8 tries and are +19.
Assuming Racing send over a depleted team, its highly likely Munster will remain ahead of Leinster, as they are playing the day after, so will know exactly how many tries they need.
Otherwise for Leinster to qualify, (in addition to gaining a bonus point victory over Exeter) they'll need either Montpellier or Saracens to get 1 point or less in their games v Toulon and Edinburgh.
One other potential (albeit unlikely) bananaskin for Munster/Leinster would be Leicester to beat Toulouse, but Toulouse obtaining 2 bonus points - that would put the runner-up on 20 points and well ahead of the Irish on try scoring.
So Munster in and Leinster out... Slightly disappointed for want of another word - even with their under-par group performances I think Leinster would have a better chance of winning it out than Munster...
However, how many times have Munster been written off before....
The Quarter Finals are:
Harlequins v Munster
Clermont v Montpellier
Toulon v Leicester
Saracens v Ulster
The winner of the first named quarter-final in each semi-final pairing will have home country advantage.
Semi-final 1: Saracens or Ulster Rugby v Toulon or Leicester Tigers
Semi-final 2: ASM Clermont Auvergne or Montpellier v Harlequins or Munster Rugby
Leinster into the Challenge Cup - I think Connacht need Leinster to win this competition out for them to get back into the Heineken Cup next year??
Or Ulster to win the HC I presume?
You'd have to think if they can get past Saracens then it's a Clermont Ulster final
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on January 20, 2013, 08:55:58 PM
Or Ulster to win the HC I presume?
You'd have to think if they can get past Saracens then it's a Clermont Ulster final
Looking at that draw Ulster are the best chance for an away team to win the 1/4. Hopefully the 2 Irish teams do it.
Clermont v Saracens final
Good atmosphere in Thomond Park yesterday, best I've seen for an early afternoon kick off. Munster are still caught between two stools though. They remind me of Liverpool trying to impose a new gameplan, with Brad Penney being Brendan Rodgers.
Trying to move the ball wide, without having created an extra man, lateral running instead of straightening up and breaking the line. Passes too lateral instead of flat. Basically everything that you need to do to have a good expansive attack is a struggle for Munster at the moment.
Seemed like a harsh red card where I was standing, but if he dropped the knee, he was always risking that.
Kilcoyne and Tommy O'Donnell were two bright spots for me yesterday. o'Mahoney and Ryan got through an amount of work, and Zebo is a good finisher.
That said, it is an achievement for them to come out of the group, and while I don't think they'll beat 'Quins away, I think they'll give them their bellyfull of it.
I agree that Leinster would probably be more dangerous if they had qualified, but at the end of the day you have to qualify. A few more tries last week against Llanelli and they'd have been home and hosed.
Yeah, it looked a harsh red card.
Only in Rugby would you call a cowardly knee into the back of the head of a player on his knees, a harsh red card ;D
But the ref was right there, saw it straight away and had no qualms at all. So I'd say it was just a fortunate situation for Munster, that it was gifted to them in the first few minutes.
Looked a harsh red to us on the terrace I mean. I haven't seen it on the TV at all. If he dropped the knee he deserved to go, but it didn't look too 'violent' from where we were.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2013, 11:12:57 AM
Looked a harsh red to us on the terrace I mean. I haven't seen it on the TV at all. If he dropped the knee he deserved to go, but it didn't look too 'violent' from where we were.
Dont think there was any sort of significant contact made, looked to be more for the intent than the actual action.
Quote from: NAG1 on January 22, 2013, 11:19:16 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2013, 11:12:57 AM
Looked a harsh red to us on the terrace I mean. I haven't seen it on the TV at all. If he dropped the knee he deserved to go, but it didn't look too 'violent' from where we were.
Dont think there was any sort of significant contact made, looked to be more for the intent than the actual action.
I think Tommy O'Donnell conned the ref. He let out a roar as if he'd been poleaxed, so Barnes must have thought that's what happened. There's no way he'd have given a red had he seen exactly what happened.
I don't think I've ever seen a red card in rugby for intent to hit somebody, while not hitting them (its hard enough to get a red when making good contact!) A yellow might have been justified for intent. But if he intended to knee a lad in the head from a distance of one foot, he wouldnt have missed. I think he might have intended it for a split second, but then pulled out of it, hence he didnt make contact.
Quote from: Hound on January 22, 2013, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 22, 2013, 11:19:16 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2013, 11:12:57 AM
Looked a harsh red to us on the terrace I mean. I haven't seen it on the TV at all. If he dropped the knee he deserved to go, but it didn't look too 'violent' from where we were.
Dont think there was any sort of significant contact made, looked to be more for the intent than the actual action.
I think Tommy O'Donnell conned the ref. He let out a roar as if he'd been poleaxed, so Barnes must have thought that's what happened. There's no way he'd have given a red had he seen exactly what happened.
I don't think I've ever seen a red card in rugby for intent to hit somebody, while not hitting them (its hard enough to get a red when making good contact!) A yellow might have been justified for intent. But if he intended to knee a lad in the head from a distance of one foot, he wouldnt have missed. I think he might have intended it for a split second, but then pulled out of it, hence he didnt make contact.
Bullshit. The ruck is stuck dead, the ref has blew the whistle and after that he makes an attempt to knee a man in the head whilst he's on the ground. If he did it on the street he'd go before the courts.
Consider the meek reaction of the Racing 6, he knew he was caught.
Quote from: trileacman on January 22, 2013, 04:00:21 PM
Consider the meek reaction of the Racing 6, he knew he was caught.
Sure the rugger boys all go meekly even if they feel they have been wronged, scared to say a word to the master sorry I mean referee.
I also thought there was no contact or very little from the two or three slow-motion views they showed immediately afterwards. But a few minutes later they showed it from a different angle and it looked much worse - there seemed to be contact and it did seem deserving of a red. Also, I don't see any reason to characterise O'Donnell's reaction as fake.
The Munster co-commentator was worried for the first few slow motion replays as it didn't look much, but the intrepid Sky camera director finally found the angle to nail the Racing player.
Quote from: Hardy on January 22, 2013, 04:20:56 PM
I also thought there was no contact or very little from the two or three slow-motion views they showed immediately afterwards. But a few minutes later they showed it from a different angle and it looked much worse - there seemed to be contact and it did seem deserving of a red. Also, I don't see any reason to characterise O'Donnell's reaction as fake.
Same, the view from behind shows the intent in it. The view from the side doesn't look like much at all. To be fair the best view of the lot would have been.
Quote from: NAG1 on January 22, 2013, 04:08:02 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 22, 2013, 04:00:21 PM
Consider the meek reaction of the Racing 6, he knew he was caught.
Sure the rugger boys all go meekly even if they feel they have been wronged, scared to say a word to the master sorry I mean referee.
Wish to hell the GAA was the same!
Quote from: Declan on January 21, 2013, 08:07:58 AM
Clermont v Saracens final
I think Ulster will beat Saracens, they have been in excellent form all season, they have had injuries and still managed to pull off some fine wins. The game will be tight but I think they won't mind being away to Saracens rather than Munster, Clermont or Toulon.
Ulster beaten . Not ideal .
Ulster were well beaten in the end 27-16. They got a late consolation try.
Munster are through to the semis after beating Quins 18-12. They will play Clermont next in France.
Quote from: Capt Pat on April 07, 2013, 04:05:28 PM
Munster are through to the semis after beating Quins 18-12. They will play Clermont next in France.
I know O'Connell will get the kudos but Tommy O'Donnell was my man of the match - he was David Wallacesque today.
It was Munster old school today, wonder what Penney thought of it all, they will need to score tries against Clermont or I would fear the worst.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/554986_566075706745928_1284164390_n.jpg)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 07, 2013, 07:41:39 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on April 07, 2013, 04:05:28 PM
Munster are through to the semis after beating Quins 18-12. They will play Clermont next in France.
I know O'Connell will get the kudos but Tommy O'Donnell was my man of the match - he was David Wallacesque today.
It was Munster old school today, wonder what Penney thought of it all, they will need to score tries against Clermont or I would fear the worst.
Yeah Tommy O'Donnell was at his destructive best along with some great carries on attack. I thought the Munster backrow stood up and really put the squeeze on Quins as a unit. 1 to 9 were immense for Munster and played the perfect game. Big worry is apart from Zebo and at a stretch Felix Jones nobody looks like giving any penetration out wide so as you said tries will be hard to come by in France. Delighted for O'Gara after the tough time he has had lately but while he had a good second half I did feel he was one mistake from a complete meltdown and struggled to dictate the game until the pack got totally on top in the third quarter.
A bit like in NFL you might make the playoffs with a dodgy QB but you rarely beat the top teams to go all the way and at this level in the Heineken Cup I'd liken the out-half to a QB in terms of influencing these semifinals. Think Sexton vs Myler in the 2011 final or O'Gara vs Perylonge in 2006 decider.
Quote from: Crete Boom on April 08, 2013, 12:48:44 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 07, 2013, 07:41:39 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on April 07, 2013, 04:05:28 PM
Munster are through to the semis after beating Quins 18-12. They will play Clermont next in France.
I know O'Connell will get the kudos but Tommy O'Donnell was my man of the match - he was David Wallacesque today.
It was Munster old school today, wonder what Penney thought of it all, they will need to score tries against Clermont or I would fear the worst.
Yeah Tommy O'Donnell was at his destructive best along with some great carries on attack. I thought the Munster backrow stood up and really put the squeeze on Quins as a unit. 1 to 9 were immense for Munster and played the perfect game. Big worry is apart from Zebo and at a stretch Felix Jones nobody looks like giving any penetration out wide so as you said tries will be hard to come by in France. Delighted for O'Gara after the tough time he has had lately but while he had a good second half I did feel he was one mistake from a complete meltdown and struggled to dictate the game until the pack got totally on top in the third quarter.
A bit like in NFL you might make the playoffs with a dodgy QB but you rarely beat the top teams to go all the way and at this level in the Heineken Cup I'd liken the out-half to a QB in terms of influencing these semifinals. Think Sexton vs Myler in the 2011 final or O'Gara vs Perylonge in 2006 decider.
Will Howlett be back for the semi?
I'm not sure Muppet but he'd be a huge boost to the back three if he was available in attack and especially in defence because while Munster can block up the midefield with Downey and Laulala Clermont have the option of a monster back three with pace to burn to get in behind Munster.
Any good links for the clermont v munster match today??
Check this link shorty before kick-off
http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=201731&part=sports (http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=201731&part=sports)
Leinster are still the best team in Europe, and by a considerable margin. It's a pity they sleepwalked the first four group stages because they would have won three-in-a-row. Circus rugby today, making Biaritz look like a schools team.
Eh they're not, you could argue subjectively the best XV but Clermont, Tolouse, Toulon even Saracens have better squads and that's what you need to succeed in Europe.
Biarritz are a schools team, far removed from their previous power.
Brilliant effort by Munster. Unlucky to lose the last lineout and the decision for the Clermont scrum at the end was wrong.
Nigel Owens, dear God why do we put up with him?
Great result for the final in Dublin . Clermont fans will arrive in throves with bands etc . Mate who knows more about this than me reckons they will all meet in town and march out to Ballsbridge en masse like they do in France.
Better craic than the" Munster 4 " golf/yacht club set that would have come otherwise.
Imvho of course.
Quote from: Canalman on April 27, 2013, 07:15:46 PM
Great result for the final in Dublin . Clermont fans will arrive in throves with bands etc . Mate who knows more about this than me reckons they will all meet in town and march out to Ballsbridge en masse like they do in France.
Better craic than the" Munster 4 " golf/yacht club set that would have come otherwise.
Imvho of course.
They only do that on
Throve Tuesday.
Some effort to come back like that in a game where they looked completely over-matched for the first 50 minutes. It'd be a pity if O'Gara went out like that, he's been an incredible servant for Ireland and Munster. The Reds have the scope to return to this stage again in the next few years.
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2013, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: Canalman on April 27, 2013, 07:15:46 PM
Great result for the final in Dublin . Clermont fans will arrive in throves with bands etc . Mate who knows more about this than me reckons they will all meet in town and march out to Ballsbridge en masse like they do in France.
Better craic than the" Munster 4 " golf/yacht club set that would have come otherwise.
Imvho of course.
They only do that on Throve Tuesday.
;D ;D
Have Connacht qualified for the HC next year or do they need Leinster to win the Amlin?
Munster were not good enough on the day. I wonder how long Rog and O Connell will hang around for?
Wilkinson should be on the Lions tour.
I seriously doubt they will pick him though
Quote from: Hound on April 28, 2013, 12:04:03 PM
Have Connacht qualified for the HC next year or do they need Leinster to win the Amlin?
I believe Leinster have to win it and so qualify for the Heineken as winners of the challenge cup, leaving the 3 other provinces taking the other 3 spots through the Rabo
Quote from: galwayman on April 28, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
Wilkinson should be on the Lions tour.
I seriously doubt they will pick him though
I think he should be there but when the father of his rival is part of the selection then you would have to doubt it!!
Munster are out of the Heinekn Cup, but worth a mention here. Doug Howlett forced to retire from Rugby http://t.co/q8YBdi9gKu Rugby
Munster Rugby today announced that current squad captain Doug Howlett will retire from professional rugby at the end of this season.
The decision was forced on the former All Black through injury sustained in the RaboDirect PRO12 game against Glasgow Warriors in the game played in Scotstoun at the end of March. At that time, 34 year old Howlett was in contract extension negotiations with Munster but hasn't been able to play since because of the shoulder injury he suffered in the course of scoring Munster's third try. He underwent surgery in a Dublin hospital earlier this month and acting on medical advice will retire at season end.
Howlett joined Munster in January 2008 and played a key role in their Heineken Cup success that season. He won his 100th cap in the October 2012 League game against Leinster and ends his Munster career as the all-time second leading try scorer with 35 tries after five and a half seasons.
he was nominated squad captain at the start of this season and became just the second overseas (Jim Williams the other) and the first back to achieve that honour.
Howlett has intimated that he will remain on in Cork, where he lives with his wife and three children, for the immediate future
Other departures from the current squad – besides Peter Stringer who remains with Bath, Marcus Horan who announced his retirement recently, Sean Scanlon (Rotherham Titans) and Sean Henry (Connacht) – include Wian du Preez who returns to his native South Africa, Scott Deasy and Christy Condon.
BJ Botha will continue on with Munster having signed a two year contract extension while Danny Barnes has not been re-contracted but is understood to have negotiated an opportunity to play abroad and news of that will be confirmed in the coming weeks."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl1TYOReb04&feature=player_embedded
Sad to hear that about Dougie. Always gave 100% and had mad, mad eyes. Obviously he was not the flying winger of All Black fame, even when he came to Munster, and his game had to change because of the way Munster play. Ironically he'd probably have flourished as a 26 year old in Penney's 'go wide' philosophy that was tried out earlier in the year.
A nice fella as well, very polite, and he'll be missed in Munster.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 14, 2013, 02:58:04 PM
Sad to hear that about Dougie. Always gave 100% and had mad, mad eyes. Obviously he was not the flying winger of All Black fame, even when he came to Munster, and his game had to change because of the way Munster play. Ironically he'd probably have flourished as a 26 year old in Penney's 'go wide' philosophy that was tried out earlier in the year.
A nice fella as well, very polite, and he'll be missed in Munster.
Some pro all the same.
Always enjoyed watching him play.
Rumours that O Gara will be linking up with Racing Metro next season on a 2 year deal, as Kicking coach. http://balls.ie/rugby/ronan-ogara-racing-metro-coach/
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 17, 2013, 05:27:44 PM
Rumours that O Gara will be linking up with Racing Metro next season on a 2 year deal, as Kicking coach. http://balls.ie/rugby/ronan-ogara-racing-metro-coach/
Fair play ROG and best of luck.
England and French clubs to set up new competition from next season to replace Heineken Cup.
Jeez, if that goes ahead it will be a serious, serious blow to rugby in Ireland. A HEC without the English and French will be a joke, and the fans will stop going. To be honest I think pro rugby in Ireland faces a testing time right now. Munster need to step up to the mark again, and the Irish team needs to move on from the 'Golden Generation'. Leinster will keep ticking over, and Ulster are certainly a force again, but you probably need the Munster hoo-haa to grab attention as well.
I've got my season ticket for Thomond Park again, year #10 I think or maybe 11 even, but I'll be interested to see how many times TP sells out.
Apparently they will invite teams from other countries to join but it's the end of the Heineken Cup as we know it.
Where did you see this?
If they invite other teams to join, I'm sure Leinster and Munster and Ulster will be invited, but I bet they make it a lot harder to qualify for it. their big rÃ-ra was because Munster and co could rest players for Rabo games, because Ireland was always going to have at least 3 teams in the HEC. English teams had to field full teams for Aviva games because only the top 6 or whatever made it in.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 10, 2013, 05:12:56 PM
Jeez, if that goes ahead it will be a serious, serious blow to rugby in Ireland. A HEC without the English and French will be a joke, and the fans will stop going. To be honest I think pro rugby in Ireland faces a testing time right now. Munster need to step up to the mark again, and the Irish team needs to move on from the 'Golden Generation'. Leinster will keep ticking over, and Ulster are certainly a force again, but you probably need the Munster hoo-haa to grab attention as well.
I've got my season ticket for Thomond Park again, year #10 I think or maybe 11 even, but I'll be interested to see how many times TP sells out.
Not on the wind but do fellas from rural Leinster tend to support Munster more than Leinster??
Used to Walter, but not any more. My home town is full of Leinster fans now, and that's good to see. There's also a smattering of Connacht and Munster fans, but in general, even with the Leinster lads, it's more casual fandom.
*PS before the usuals jump in, I'm living in Tipp and living in Limerick before that since 1995, a stint in Arizona apart. I'm not actually living up in Offaly. One good thing about Leinster's recent dominance is I can't be slagged as much for supporting Munster :)
The killing part of this is that the Heineken Cup was a very enlightened system. Do the RFU and FFR want rugby to thrive in the other Six Nations countries? Because unless they have some source of revenue from outside, the Pro12 countries are going to find it increasingly difficult to compete. It's very shortsighted, although the manner in which the IRFU et al have been sticking their head in the sand over this (WRU response (http://www.espn.co.uk/heineken-cup-2013-14/rugby/story/197763.html): "There has to be a European Cup next season. It's too good to lose"; some negotiating poistion) does them no credit.
Quote from: deiseach on September 10, 2013, 05:33:02 PM
The killing part of this is that the Heineken Cup was a very enlightened system. Do the RFU and FFR want rugby to thrive in the other Six Nations countries? Because unless they have some source of revenue from outside, the Pro12 countries are going to find it increasingly difficult to compete. It's very shortsighted, although the manner in which the IRFU et al have been sticking their head in the sand over this (WRU response (http://www.espn.co.uk/heineken-cup-2013-14/rugby/story/197763.html): "There has to be a European Cup next season. It's too good to lose"; some negotiating poistion) does them no credit.
The English and French want to have their cake (strong domestic league) and eat it (lucrative European Competition). And they want it for more of their teams at the expense of probably at least one each from Scotland, Italy, Wales and Ireland (who don't have the strong domestic leagues to fall back on). They have no interest in the other countries.
They will invite Leinster and probably one of Munster and Ulster along with maybe two Welsh clubs and call it a European Cup.
If the Welsh and Irish teams say no, a standoff could arise where there is no proper tournament for a couple of years. The English and French would be best placed to survive, given their strong local leagues.
If the Irish and Welsh teams say yes, they would be killing the game in Italy and Scotland and splitting the game in their own countries.
If the English and French had any interests other than their own they would be proposing a European Super League to replace the domestic and PRO12 Leagues.
Well we could have a Celtic-Italian Cup and an Anglo-French Cup -would either/both claim the title European Cup???
A Celtic-Italian Cup would be fairly underwhelming. But my money would be on the Welsh capitulating and joining up with the English and French, and then Ireland would follow suit, and then the Scots/Italians would have no choice.
With the ERC having the final decision is this not a case of the French/English playing hard ball in order to get higher representation??
The likely outcome will be 8 sides from each the Premiership, Top 14 and Pro 12 qualifying for the Heineken and the rest playing in the Amlin.
On another note that Stephen Jones (Times journalist) is an awful arrogant git. More or less blaming the Irish for the whole debacle.
He can rest easy, with the new overseas player ruling taking place I think it could be a while before we see an Irish side lift the European Cup!!
This is a bit of a conundrum. While it's easy to suggest that England are France are being shortsighted with regards to the development of rugby worldwide, or even european-wide, it also has to be unequivocally accepted that they are the financial powerhouses which drive the success of any European competition. So they should have more clout. That's life.
For my tuppence, I think the HC is a bit bloated with teams who can't win it - plus 6 pools delivering 8 quarter-finalists is an awful way to run any tournament. The argument that it has to be a European wide competition which brings in Italians and Scots is tempered in my mind by quality control; it's a premier tournament, so it should be played as one.
If money wasn't the overriding factor, it should be a straight-up 16 team tournament, 4 x pools of 4, with the first 5 sides in Pro 12, England and France making the HC cut every year, and the last place being decided arbitrarily by something along the lines of: HC winner (if not already qualified through league), else AC winner (if not already qualified), else one extra place for the HC winner's league. The AC would be run on similar lines, with the next 5 teams from each league, plus one arbitrary slot to reward previous season's performance.
The nice side-effect of this is that the Pro 12 would gain even more significance, and would become a genuinely competitive league for all fixtures.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 11, 2013, 09:01:00 AM
With the ERC having the final decision is this not a case of the French/English playing hard ball in order to get higher representation??
The English Premiership say ERC approval is not required in respect of their proposed new competition.
I can't believe the IRFU have let this come to pass. I wouldn't count myself an expert in rugby politics, but even I could see that the English and French clubs were determined to get a bigger slice of the ERC pie and resented bankrolling the success of Munster and Leinster. While Premiership/Top 14 clubs were knocking lumps out of each other in their respective domestic competitions, the provinces were able to mix and match teams in the Pro12, safe in the knowledge that they'd be in the Heineken Cup the following season. I think the IRFU really thought that the old farts in Twickenham would ride to their rescue. Come on chaps, let's not be so beastly about money. We've got loads already, let the Micks have a few extra quid for the sake of the reception they gave us at Lansdowne Road in '73. Well, those boys aren't driving English rugby forward any more. The sooner the IRFU take their heads out of the sand and hammer out a compromise, the better. It'll hurt, but not as much as if they don't compromise.
Quote from: Hound on September 11, 2013, 10:20:26 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 11, 2013, 09:01:00 AM
With the ERC having the final decision is this not a case of the French/English playing hard ball in order to get higher representation??
The English Premiership say ERC approval is not required in respect of their proposed new competition.
Whilst this is the brainchild of both the top English and French premiership clubs it looks like they'll need the approval of the respective rugby unions for it to come into fruition.
The IRFU has the most to lose out of this and their bargaining position has been eroded with this announcement ahead of the ERC meeting in a few weeks time.
Welsh clubs like their English and Welsh counterparts operate as separate entities, so they can individually be invited and the revenue split decided by the elite clubs.
The Irish provinces could be cut adrift and even if they do get invited to the party they're going to lose out financially in a big way.
Quentin Smith, Chairman of Premiership Rugby, reiterates this morning that the HC is dead and next year it'll be the new Anglo/French version, and that he's hopeful/confident other teams will join up. He says that if the unions don't sanction the new tournament, then there'll be no European tournament.
His final line shows what they think of the ERC:
What ERC should be doing is to concentrate on running the Heineken and Amlin Challenge Cups this season as successfully as they can and then a mechanism for running itself down because there will no longer be a need for it
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/10303551/The-European-phoney-war-is-over.-RFU-must-accept-that-lead-taken-by-top-English-and-French-clubs-is-real.html
Quote from: Hound on September 12, 2013, 09:01:25 AM
Quentin Smith, Chairman of Premiership Rugby, reiterates this morning that the HC is dead and next year it'll be the new Anglo/French version, and that he's hopeful/confident other teams will join up. He says that if the unions don't sanction the new tournament, then there'll be no European tournament.
His final line shows what they think of the ERC:
What ERC should be doing is to concentrate on running the Heineken and Amlin Challenge Cups this season as successfully as they can and then a mechanism for running itself down because there will no longer be a need for it
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/10303551/The-European-phoney-war-is-over.-RFU-must-accept-that-lead-taken-by-top-English-and-French-clubs-is-real.html
Money talks. I assume of the 4 Irish sides Connacht are most at risk. Surely the new tournament will want to attract Munster/Leinster/Ulster as they probably have the biggest travelling support in Europe!!
Pardon my ignorance, but why doesn't the ERC just let the English and French run their own little Anglo/French competition and continue with the Heiniken Cup. They could allocate the places to English and French clubs and if they don't take them up just go without them. Although I would say ala Champions League places should be allocated to the various leagues and the ratio preportional to the success of the entrants from the leagues.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 12, 2013, 09:45:44 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but why doesn't the ERC just let the English and French run their own little Anglo/French competition and continue with the Heiniken Cup. They could allocate the places to English and French clubs and if they don't take them up just go without them.
You mean like the PRO12.
From a French/English Ireland have won 5 of the last 8 Heineken Cups and there has to be a reason other than our Clubs have been better than the English and French clubs in this period and they see it as they automatic qualification into the Heineken Cup.
Personally I think that's nonsense but they have the financial clout to dig their heels in and work it more in their favour. Should it not be up to the IRB to step in here and say that an Anglo/French centred Tournament is not good for the promotion of Rugby throughout Europe and that if they don't play in the Heineken Cup then they can't set up on their own? Why should individual Countries be allowed to dictate the state of the game across the Continent?
The French and English clubs have all the money behind them. When they leave the money will follow them and the Celtic nations will be forced to join the new competition.
That is unless the Heineken cup makes the changes the English and French clubs are demanding.
Quote from: Capt Pat on September 12, 2013, 01:20:53 PM
The French and English clubs have all the money behind them. When they leave the money will follow them and the Celtic nations will be forced to join the new competition.
That is unless the Heineken cup makes the changes the English and French clubs are demanding.
It's that simple, isn't it? I doff my cap to your pithy style.
Quote from: deiseach on September 12, 2013, 09:51:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 12, 2013, 09:45:44 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but why doesn't the ERC just let the English and French run their own little Anglo/French competition and continue with the Heiniken Cup. They could allocate the places to English and French clubs and if they don't take them up just go without them.
You mean like the PRO12.
Well no the Pro12 would have a number of places in the HC as would the english and French or the Anglo french League.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 12, 2013, 02:26:23 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 12, 2013, 09:51:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 12, 2013, 09:45:44 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but why doesn't the ERC just let the English and French run their own little Anglo/French competition and continue with the Heiniken Cup. They could allocate the places to English and French clubs and if they don't take them up just go without them.
You mean like the PRO12.
Well no the Pro12 would have a number of places in the HC as would the english and French or the Anglo french League.
Your idea is about as insane as ice cream on toast.
I think the Irish and Welsh should give in and join.
Then we will say goodbye to the Italians, at least half of the Scots and a couple of teams from Ireland and Wales.
Then in a few years when the Premiership Egos decide they need more money we will go through this all over again. Will we lose the rest of the Scots, and more Irish and Welsh teams.
Eventually we will be left with amateur rugby in Italy, Scotland, most of Ireland and Wales. There will be two professional leagues, one in England and one in France. They will have only succeeded in reducing the revenue.
Seriously though, the Irish would be insane to capitulate now, but I am worried about the Welsh. I think they will do it.
Quote from: muppet on September 12, 2013, 07:22:35 PM
I think the Irish and Welsh should give in and join.
Then we will say goodbye to the Italians, at least half of the Scots and a couple of teams from Ireland and Wales.
Then in a few years when the Premiership Egos decide they need more money we will go through this all over again. Will we lose the rest of the Scots, and more Irish and Welsh teams.
Eventually we will be left with amateur rugby in Italy, Scotland, most of Ireland and Wales. There will be two professional leagues, one in England and one in France. They will have only succeeded in reducing the revenue.
Seriously though, the Irish would be insane to capitulate now, but I am worried about the Welsh. I think they will do it.
How do we resist though?
We'll have two European Cups. The Irish with shit Welsh/Scots sides. The money /media /hype machine will go to the French/English model and the HC form will fold.
All the c***ts need is Munster/Leinster and a strong Welsh side and they can push on and call their competition the premier rugby competition in Europe.
We'll just survive but the cnuts have spelled the death of Scottish and Italian rugby.
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 12, 2013, 07:22:35 PM
I think the Irish and Welsh should give in and join.
Then we will say goodbye to the Italians, at least half of the Scots and a couple of teams from Ireland and Wales.
Then in a few years when the Premiership Egos decide they need more money we will go through this all over again. Will we lose the rest of the Scots, and more Irish and Welsh teams.
Eventually we will be left with amateur rugby in Italy, Scotland, most of Ireland and Wales. There will be two professional leagues, one in England and one in France. They will have only succeeded in reducing the revenue.
Seriously though, the Irish would be insane to capitulate now, but I am worried about the Welsh. I think they will do it.
How do we resist though?
We'll have two European Cups. The Irish with shit Welsh/Scots sides. The money /media /hype machine will go to the French/English model and the HC form will fold.
All the c***ts need is Munster/Leinster and a strong Welsh side and they can push on and call their competition the premier rugby competition in Europe.
We'll just survive but the cnuts have spelled the death of Scottish and Italian rugby.
This could happen. But what happens when the English club owners threaten us again?
Lets be honest. This is the death of Connacht, Dragons and one of the Scottish clubs. To be honest the Scots will have to amalgamate the two clubs left.
Quote from: muppet on September 12, 2013, 09:13:35 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 12, 2013, 07:22:35 PM
I think the Irish and Welsh should give in and join.
Then we will say goodbye to the Italians, at least half of the Scots and a couple of teams from Ireland and Wales.
Then in a few years when the Premiership Egos decide they need more money we will go through this all over again. Will we lose the rest of the Scots, and more Irish and Welsh teams.
Eventually we will be left with amateur rugby in Italy, Scotland, most of Ireland and Wales. There will be two professional leagues, one in England and one in France. They will have only succeeded in reducing the revenue.
Seriously though, the Irish would be insane to capitulate now, but I am worried about the Welsh. I think they will do it.
How do we resist though?
We'll have two European Cups. The Irish with shit Welsh/Scots sides. The money /media /hype machine will go to the French/English model and the HC form will fold.
All the c***ts need is Munster/Leinster and a strong Welsh side and they can push on and call their competition the premier rugby competition in Europe.
We'll just survive but the cnuts have spelled the death of Scottish and Italian rugby.
This could happen. But what happens when the English club owners threaten us again?
I'd assume Munster/Leinster would be as strong even the richest of the English clubs and more able to defend their corner.
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:22:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 12, 2013, 09:13:35 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 12, 2013, 07:22:35 PM
I think the Irish and Welsh should give in and join.
Then we will say goodbye to the Italians, at least half of the Scots and a couple of teams from Ireland and Wales.
Then in a few years when the Premiership Egos decide they need more money we will go through this all over again. Will we lose the rest of the Scots, and more Irish and Welsh teams.
Eventually we will be left with amateur rugby in Italy, Scotland, most of Ireland and Wales. There will be two professional leagues, one in England and one in France. They will have only succeeded in reducing the revenue.
Seriously though, the Irish would be insane to capitulate now, but I am worried about the Welsh. I think they will do it.
How do we resist though?
We'll have two European Cups. The Irish with shit Welsh/Scots sides. The money /media /hype machine will go to the French/English model and the HC form will fold.
All the c***ts need is Munster/Leinster and a strong Welsh side and they can push on and call their competition the premier rugby competition in Europe.
We'll just survive but the cnuts have spelled the death of Scottish and Italian rugby.
This could happen. But what happens when the English club owners threaten us again?
I'd assume Munster/Leinster would be as strong even the richest of the English clubs and more able to defend their corner.
Unlike now?
Quote from: muppet on September 12, 2013, 09:26:51 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:22:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 12, 2013, 09:13:35 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 12, 2013, 07:22:35 PM
I think the Irish and Welsh should give in and join.
Then we will say goodbye to the Italians, at least half of the Scots and a couple of teams from Ireland and Wales.
Then in a few years when the Premiership Egos decide they need more money we will go through this all over again. Will we lose the rest of the Scots, and more Irish and Welsh teams.
Eventually we will be left with amateur rugby in Italy, Scotland, most of Ireland and Wales. There will be two professional leagues, one in England and one in France. They will have only succeeded in reducing the revenue.
Seriously though, the Irish would be insane to capitulate now, but I am worried about the Welsh. I think they will do it.
How do we resist though?
We'll have two European Cups. The Irish with shit Welsh/Scots sides. The money /media /hype machine will go to the French/English model and the HC form will fold.
All the c***ts need is Munster/Leinster and a strong Welsh side and they can push on and call their competition the premier rugby competition in Europe.
We'll just survive but the cnuts have spelled the death of Scottish and Italian rugby.
This could happen. But what happens when the English club owners threaten us again?
I'd assume Munster/Leinster would be as strong even the richest of the English clubs and more able to defend their corner.
Unlike now?
They're defending Aironi, Zebre, Dragons, Glasgow and Connacht. Not truly the same as defending your own existence as you predict may happen. What could they do? Banish Munster and Leinster from the competition (and the cash that they bring with them)?
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:17:45 PM
Lets be honest. This is the death of Connacht, Dragons and one of the Scottish clubs. To be honest the Scots will have to amalgamate the two clubs left.
Connact would be better off competitively speaking playing in the Amlin Cup or its successor and sure they only make the European Cup when Munster or Leinster win it anyways. Are Connacht even being particularly well-funded? I doubt this stuff will decide their future one way or the other. The IRFU has mulled over culling them long before any of this stuff came up.
Quote from: Syferus on September 12, 2013, 09:31:58 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:17:45 PM
Lets be honest. This is the death of Connacht, Dragons and one of the Scottish clubs. To be honest the Scots will have to amalgamate the two clubs left.
Connact would be better off competitively speaking playing in the Amlin Cup or its successor and sure they only make the European Cup when Munster or Leinster win it anyways. Are Connacht even being particularly well-funded? I doubt this stuff will decide their future one way or the other. The IRFU has mulled over culling them long before any of this stuff came up.
Connacht are financially better off playing in the HC. Fact.
It steals funding and revenue from the smaller rugby nations to be retained by the strongest French/English clubs. Be certain it spells the death of Connacht rugby.
It's my ball and I'm going home ....
Quote from: Syferus on September 12, 2013, 09:31:58 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:17:45 PM
Lets be honest. This is the death of Connacht, Dragons and one of the Scottish clubs. To be honest the Scots will have to amalgamate the two clubs left.
Connact would be better off competitively speaking playing in the Amlin Cup or its successor and sure they only make the European Cup when Munster or Leinster win it anyways. Are Connacht even being particularly well-funded? I doubt this stuff will decide their future one way or the other. The IRFU has mulled over culling them long before any of this stuff came up.
There's no doubt the English Premier clubs in particular are using the smokescreen of the ease of qualification of the Irish provinces as a chance to get a bigger slice of the TV monies pie. Not sure how the could agree a contract without IRB and their RFU approval. Are they a law onto themselves?
I can see a power struggle over this in England in particular.
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:31:02 PM
They're defending Aironi, Zebre, Dragons, Glasgow and Connacht. Not truly the same as defending your own existence as you predict may happen. What could they do? Banish Munster and Leinster from the competition (and the cash that they bring with them)?
That is what they are threatening.
I'd feel sorry for the IRFU . . . if it weren't for the fact that they went mental when the government proposed turning off the flow of money from Sky or alcohol sponsorship, roping in all their buddies in the media (of which there are many) for a full court press against any change to the status quo. All that effort, and they blithely ignored the threat that was there once BT became a player in the TV market. What was the strategy here? Hope it would go away?
Quote from: muppet on September 13, 2013, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:31:02 PM
They're defending Aironi, Zebre, Dragons, Glasgow and Connacht. Not truly the same as defending your own existence as you predict may happen. What could they do? Banish Munster and Leinster from the competition (and the cash that they bring with them)?
That is what they are threatening.
Not a runner, IMO. What are they gonna do? Throw out the top 2 clubs in Europe of the last 8 years and then go arrange a championship without them? Would be like Spanish, Italian and English telling the Krauts they couldn't play European soccer.
Quote from: trileacman on September 13, 2013, 08:10:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 13, 2013, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:31:02 PM
They're defending Aironi, Zebre, Dragons, Glasgow and Connacht. Not truly the same as defending your own existence as you predict may happen. What could they do? Banish Munster and Leinster from the competition (and the cash that they bring with them)?
That is what they are threatening.
Not a runner, IMO. What are they gonna do? Throw out the top 2 clubs in Europe of the last 8 years and then go arrange a championship without them? Would be like Spanish, Italian and English telling the Krauts they couldn't play European soccer.
Or the Spanish, Italian and Krauts banning English teams for over half a decade.
Oh wait.
Quote from: muppet on September 13, 2013, 08:15:13 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 13, 2013, 08:10:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 13, 2013, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 12, 2013, 09:31:02 PM
They're defending Aironi, Zebre, Dragons, Glasgow and Connacht. Not truly the same as defending your own existence as you predict may happen. What could they do? Banish Munster and Leinster from the competition (and the cash that they bring with them)?
That is what they are threatening.
Not a runner, IMO. What are they gonna do? Throw out the top 2 clubs in Europe of the last 8 years and then go arrange a championship without them? Would be like Spanish, Italian and English telling the Krauts they couldn't play European soccer.
Or the Spanish, Italian and Krauts banning English teams for over half a decade.
Oh wait.
Those South Dublin rugger types are fair oul' animals. As bad as Armagh hurlers.
Quote from: trileacman on September 13, 2013, 08:10:39 PM
Not a runner, IMO. What are they gonna do? Throw out the top 2 clubs in Europe of the last 8 years and then go arrange a championship without them? Would be like Spanish, Italian and English telling the Krauts they couldn't play European soccer.
That's exactly what they are planning to do. Do you really think the likes of Leicester and Toulouse live in awe of Munster and Leinster? They have their legends too, formed in a time when the provinces used play three times in a year against each other in front of a man and a dog. Think of it this way. The English and French clubs - and it's important we remember it's the clubs here, most of them owned by businessmen who see all taxation as theft - are jealous of the way the Irish provinces have gotten fat on the profits of the Heineken Cup without having to put in the bruising effort that each of their clubs has to do to qualify. And jealousy is a very powerful force. Even if it could be proven to them that they'd be worse off under a new regime, I think they'd still be inclined to proceed as long as The Other were
much worse off.
http://www.eddieosullivan.com/heineken-keg-nearly-empty/ (http://www.eddieosullivan.com/heineken-keg-nearly-empty/)
Eddie has his own blog now. It is quite informative actually.....
Is the Heineken keg nearly empty?
The first signs of real trouble appeared almost a year ago to the day, when Premiership Rugby announced they had signed a deal with BT Sport for €178 million (£152m). A deal between BT Sport and Premiership Rugby is in itself not an extraordinary development. But it includes the transmission rights of cross-border matches from 2014. Cross-border matches are what the Heineken Cup is all about.
This dispute, like any other dispute in sport, is about money. The English in particular and French have never been very happy about how the Heineken monies have been doled out. The English and French supply six teams to the tournament and each receive 24% of the pot. The Celtic nations and Italy receive the remaining 52% of the money, which is doled out between the four Unions.
That's a pretty good deal seeing as the Pro 12 Nations are only guaranteed ten teams into the tournament (Ireland 3, Wales 3, Scotland 2 and Italy 2). The remaining two spots go to the tournament winners and the Amlin Challenge winners.
So in essence the Anglo/French block gets 48% to share between twelve teams and the Pro 12 block get 52% to share between them. If an English or French team win the Heineken or Amlin it means more teams to share in an already smaller pot.
If you look at the Anglo-French proposals for a revamped European Cup, it would include just twenty teams. England and France continue to supply six teams with the Pro 12 supplying a further six, through qualification as in the Aviva and Top 14, and the remaining two spots taken by the previous year's winner and runner-up.
The financial remuneration would be a very simple three-way split between the Premiership Rugby, Top 14 and the Pro 12. So that would increase the take for England and France from 24% to over 33%. Quite a sizable increase in revenues.
The Argument the Anglo/French make is they believe they bring more value to the tournament. That sounds pretty arrogant but without them it would just be another Pro 12 Tournament. Hardly something that would set the pulse racing.
Also, without a Heineken the Aviva Premiership would probably increase the league from twelve to fourteen teams. The French already have fourteen teams and have to start their championship in August. They are already five games into their league, which included mid-week games last week, yes three rugby games in eight days.
With no Heineken the free weekends would be welcomed in both England and France. England could expand their Aviva Premiership and release their players to play an extra Autumn International each year. That would be worth a substantial chunk of change to the premiership clubs. The French would not have to start their season in August and would avoid mid-week games.
There is even the talk of a World Club Championship with the winners of each national tournament, including the Super Rugby champions playing off over a couple of weeks.
What also rankles with the English and French is their teams have to qualify by finishing in one of the top six spots in the Aviva Premiership and Top 14, leagues that have relegation. While the Pro 12 teams are guaranteed participation from a league with no relegation. Scotland and Italy get both teams in, while Ireland and Wales get three from four teams with a possibility of more teams based on the outcome of the Heineken and Amlin.
The argument about relegation is relevant. The English and French argue because their leagues have relegation they are extremely competitive throughout. To compete in their domestic leagues and Heineken requires bigger squads, which costs more money.
So it's a proper mess to say the least.
But is it a real mess or are the English and French just sabre rattling?
Well this could be the real deal. Remember back in 1998/'99 England withdrew from the European Cup as it was back then. The tournament was in its fourth year and Bath had won the tournament the previous year. At that stage the European Cup was tethering on the brink of implosion. Had the French joined the English back then it would have surely been the end of the European Cup.
At that time it was the Irish international and Lion, Tom Kiernan, who convinced the French to say on board. Tom was the visionary and the driving force behind the beginning of the European Cup. Without him the tournament may never have happened or survived.
Thankfully, without the French joining them, the English came back to the table the following year, Northampton won the cup and the rest is history. But it does prove the English will act if push comes to shove. As for the French it is harder to say.
It is also worth remembering that, apart form Toulouse, it took a long time for the remainder of the French clubs to embrace the Heineken Cup. We have all seen French club teams travel away from home with the 2nd XV. Especially when they are no longer going to qualify for the quarter-finals or are having a bad run in the Top 14. Although that has changed for the better in recent years with teams like Biarritz, Clermont, Stade Francais and Toulon really going after the tournament.
Money is not a huge problem for the French. With some teams running on budgets in excess of €30m the Top 14 is the richest rugby club competition in the World. But the financials are different for the English. Budgets are much tighter and the salary cap of £4.5m means limited squads and a talent drain to the Top 14. Also, their international players are not centrally contracted by the Union as they are in the Pro 12 nations. That puts a huge financial burden in the English clubs.
The announcement this week, that there will be a new Anglo/French European competition from next year, is definitely an aggressive move. The fact the announcement was made by Premiership Rugby is even more telling. In terms of calling the shots, at the moment the English are probably driving the bus, but the French are definitely on board.
As part of their statement, Premiership Rugby has quoted the French clubs as asking "Premiership Rugby to take immediate action to put in place a competition for 2014/15 to include the French and English clubs but which will also be open to teams from other countries."
This is enticing the Celtic nations to blink and break ranks. A divide and conquer tactic if you will.
But despite the English being the most vocal at the moment, ultimately the French will decide how this plays out. If the French are really committed to restructuring the Heineken Cup and entering a new European competition if they don't get their way, it could spell the end of the Heineken Cup as we know it.
This one is set to run and while the Pro 12 refuses to budge as a block, the BT Sport money Premiership rugby is waving may cause a break for the border!
Suprise, Suprise, the Welsh turkeys vote for Christmas.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/european/2013/1022/482090-welsh-lend-full-support-to-rugby-champions-cup/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/european/2013/1022/482090-welsh-lend-full-support-to-rugby-champions-cup/)
I've said it before but the Welsh are gobshites.
Quote from: trileacman on October 23, 2013, 12:05:42 PM
Suprise, Suprise, the Welsh turkeys vote for Christmas.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/european/2013/1022/482090-welsh-lend-full-support-to-rugby-champions-cup/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/european/2013/1022/482090-welsh-lend-full-support-to-rugby-champions-cup/)
I've said it before but the Welsh are gobshites.
Looks like its a done deal at this stage.
Maybe there'll be one last blast from the Irish/Scots/ERC at today's meeting, but I doubt it. I'd say the (mostly Irish I think) staff at the ERC will be simply put on notice that their time is up and the organisation will wither at the end of this season.
Outstanding questions seem to be:
Will the 6 qualifiers from Rabo be the top 6 or will each union have a guaranteed entrant?
Will an Irish team winning the Heino or Amlin mean an extra Irish team qualifies or the next best Rabo team?
Will Sky get an opportunity to bid to televise part of the new tournament?
This is depressing, and I don't really care that much for the Heineken Cup.The Welsh regions would rather live on their knees being fed scraps from the table of their betters across the Severn than die on their feet. Fecking Lundys the lot of them.
What sanction do the unions hold, should the clubs in the various countries go ahead and set up an unapproved competition? If the clubs and their players were suspended from their unions, would this have any practical effect? I presume it would mean the players couldn't play in internationals. Would it mean anything else? Would the death of international rugby reduce the audience for rugby sufficiently for this threat to be a deterrent to proceeding with the rogue league?
Quote from: Hardy on October 23, 2013, 02:52:10 PM
What sanction do the unions hold, should the clubs in the various countries go ahead and set up an unapproved competition? If the clubs and their players were suspended from their unions, would this have any practical effect? I presume it would mean the players couldn't play in internationals. Would it mean anything else? Would the death of international rugby reduce the audience for rugby sufficiently for this threat to be a deterrent to proceeding with the rogue league?
The Welsh and English Unions don't have any sanctions really as the clubs/regions are privately owned/run with the players contracted to and payed by the clubs as opposed to Ireland/Italy where the players have either central contracts to the national team or provincial contracts which are payed by the unions. I am not sure but I think the Scottish have the same setup or very similar as us and the Italians.
The French situation is the most interesting. While the clubs are privately owned and the players directly contracted to them they have to by law have any new competition they enter sanctioned by their sports minister and agreement by the Fédération Française de Rugby (FFR) otherwise the sanctions being that the games in a rogue competition cannot be shown on any TV station ( free to air or pay per view) in France eg. Canal Plus etc... and the clubs cannot use any ground owned by municipal councils ( I think Stade Francias are the only club to own their ground with the rest i.e Toulon , Racing , Clermont , Toulouse etc.. using ground provide by the city municipal council) which would make the participation worthless in exposure and financial terms.
Quote from: Crete Boom on October 23, 2013, 04:05:16 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 23, 2013, 02:52:10 PM
What sanction do the unions hold, should the clubs in the various countries go ahead and set up an unapproved competition? If the clubs and their players were suspended from their unions, would this have any practical effect? I presume it would mean the players couldn't play in internationals. Would it mean anything else? Would the death of international rugby reduce the audience for rugby sufficiently for this threat to be a deterrent to proceeding with the rogue league?
The Welsh and English Unions don't have any sanctions really as the clubs/regions are privately owned/run with the players contracted to and payed by the clubs as opposed to Ireland/Italy where the players have either central contracts to the national team or provincial contracts which are payed by the unions. I am not sure but I think the Scottish have the same setup or very similar as us and the Italians.
The French situation is the most interesting. While the clubs are privately owned and the players directly contracted to them they have to by law have any new competition they enter sanctioned by their sports minister and agreement by the Fédération Française de Rugby (FFR) otherwise the sanctions being that the games in a rogue competition cannot be shown on any TV station ( free to air or pay per view) in France eg. Canal Plus etc... and the clubs cannot use any ground owned by municipal councils ( I think Stade Francias are the only club to own their ground with the rest i.e Toulon , Racing , Clermont , Toulouse etc.. using ground provide by the city municipal council) which would make the participation worthless in exposure and financial terms.
Thanks for that. Does this not mean that if the FFR doesn't sanction the new competition, it's dead in the water?
All the rugby unions involved and the IRB have to sanction this tournament. The Welsh have obviously decided that the english and french unions will sanction it and they've jumped first.
The Irish, Scottish and Italians have no choice now and will get the shitty end of the anglo-french stick it seems.
Quote from: Hardy on October 23, 2013, 04:17:17 PM
Quote from: Crete Boom on October 23, 2013, 04:05:16 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 23, 2013, 02:52:10 PM
What sanction do the unions hold, should the clubs in the various countries go ahead and set up an unapproved competition? If the clubs and their players were suspended from their unions, would this have any practical effect? I presume it would mean the players couldn't play in internationals. Would it mean anything else? Would the death of international rugby reduce the audience for rugby sufficiently for this threat to be a deterrent to proceeding with the rogue league?
The Welsh and English Unions don't have any sanctions really as the clubs/regions are privately owned/run with the players contracted to and payed by the clubs as opposed to Ireland/Italy where the players have either central contracts to the national team or provincial contracts which are payed by the unions. I am not sure but I think the Scottish have the same setup or very similar as us and the Italians.
The French situation is the most interesting. While the clubs are privately owned and the players directly contracted to them they have to by law have any new competition they enter sanctioned by their sports minister and agreement by the Fédération Française de Rugby (FFR) otherwise the sanctions being that the games in a rogue competition cannot be shown on any TV station ( free to air or pay per view) in France eg. Canal Plus etc... and the clubs cannot use any ground owned by municipal councils ( I think Stade Francias are the only club to own their ground with the rest i.e Toulon , Racing , Clermont , Toulouse etc.. using ground provide by the city municipal council) which would make the participation worthless in exposure and financial terms.
Thanks for that. Does this not mean that if the FFR doesn't sanction the new competition, it's dead in the water?
As I understand it the sports minister needs the FFR to agree before he can sanction the new competition so yes if the FFR aren't convinced the Rugby Champions
more money for English Premier Teams Cup would be dead in the water.
There isn't really about the Rabo teams having guaranteed qualification it is about money full stop!!!!!!!
First of all the Welsh regions are broke without any European competition and would go under in the morning if it was only the Rabo for them even if this was only for one season. Throw in the fact that while the WRU have increased their profits over the last decade their policy is to pay down their debt on RWC 1999/the Millennium Stadium as soon as possible so they won't increase their funding of the regions to beyond 50% of their running costs. This means that the region have no safety net so the offer of 600k more a year more than they currently get for the HEC is better than oblivion so they were always going to jump ship to the English clubs and whatever scraps they throw their way.
Secondly the English clubs just want money and lots of it so they went out and landed the BT TV deal bonanza but BT wanted the rights to all games involving the clubs so here is where they conflict started. The ERC negotiates the TV rights for the HEC and the Unions deal with the ERC not the clubs so Premier League Rugby wanted rid of the HEC purely so the could have the exclusive deal with BT which would ensure that all the clubs would be profitable (only four clubs make a profit at the moment) which would make their sugar daddy owners (who make up the PRL board) happy. They don't really care if there is a European competition at all. Also they want the balance of power over the RFU akin to the soccer clubs over the FA using the TV rights blueprint of the Premier League to fund the clubs.Also more TV money and power means they can raise their salary cap and challenge the French clubs for the top players.
Thirdly the French clubs don't want a European cup unless the money matches what they get out of the top 14. A Quatar backed TV company has come on the scene this year which has sparked a bidding war with Canal Plus for the TV rights similar to BT and Sky in England. They don't mind the HEC per say but they would like to expand the top 14. If they could have less HEC weekends and more Top 14 matches they would but unlike the English , clubs the combination of Sugar Daddy owners and the huge TV money , they are in a surer financial position so they could be open to retaining HEC if the teams were reduced to 22 and ERC revamped to have some club representatives on it but really it's the top 14 they care about so again they don't live or die by the survival of European rugby. There stance is definitely not as antagonistic as the English though.
Really they ultimate aim of the English and the French is to do away with any competition controlled by the Unions and then take on the dominance of international rugby and the Six nations so they can make more money and have total control of the players they sign. If they succeed in taking down the Heineken cup , the Six Nations will be next in line!! They IRB won't get involved unless the RWC cup comes under threat as this is their main cash cow which is realatively safe as it only happens every four years.
Quote from: johnneycool on October 23, 2013, 04:26:06 PM
All the rugby unions involved and the IRB have to sanction this tournament. The Welsh have obviously decided that the english and french unions will sanction it and they've jumped first.
The Irish, Scottish and Italians have no choice now and will get the shitty end of the anglo-french stick it seems.
Well technically yes but in reality apart from the French, Irish, Italian and Scottish Unions they don't have any meaningful (financial) way of punishing the clubs. The IRB don't care as long as the RWC is left alone and have already acknowledged that they would sanction a new competition before quickly rowing back on their comments after the local Unions went nuts. They won't get involved in what they see as a local issue. The RFU won't follow through on any threats as the clubs would refuse to release the players for national team duty as the agreements over player availability are only a year long and are reviewed annually ( they are only worried about RWC 2015). Also the players pay cheques comes from the club's own coffers not the unions as in Ireland/Italy/Scotland. The WRU have the same problem with the players pay coming from the clubs so if they clubs refused to release them for the international team there isn't much the Union can do. The FFR have the same problem to an extent but having the sports minister having the deciding vote on this new champions cup does give them a bargaining chip but they and the clubs wouldn't shed a million tears if there was no European Cup competition so it's only really us , the Italians and the Scots who will be wiped out with the Welsh to follow or more likely be absorbed by the English like Swansea/Cardiff in soccer.
An informative synopsis, Crete Boom - thanks. Ultimately this seems to be a power play between the clubs/commercial interests and the governing body structure surviving from amateur days and it's hard to see it ending with this issue.
The commercial interests usually win battles like this. Does the IRB's ultimate sanction constitute an effective protection for the status quo? I presume there can't be international rugby without the IRB. But what's to stop the club owners setting up their own provisional IRB and running their own international competitions?
Quote from: Hardy on October 23, 2013, 05:18:00 PM
An informative synopsis, Crete Boom - thanks. Ultimately this seems to be a power play between the clubs/commercial interests and the governing body structure surviving from amateur days and it's hard to see it ending with this issue.
The commercial interests usually win battles like this. Does the IRB's ultimate sanction constitute an effective protection for the status quo? I presume there can't be international rugby with the IRB. But what's to stop the club owners setting up their own provisional IRB and running their own international competitions?
A split on the horizon?
Get your money on an Irish grand slam!
Excuse the typo (corrected) in post above which rendered the second paragraph into gibberish. I had "with the IRB" instead of "without the IRB".
Quote from: Hardy on October 23, 2013, 05:18:00 PM
An informative synopsis, Crete Boom - thanks. Ultimately this seems to be a power play between the clubs/commercial interests and the governing body structure surviving from amateur days and it's hard to see it ending with this issue.
The commercial interests usually win battles like this. Does the IRB's ultimate sanction constitute an effective protection for the status quo? I presume there can't be international rugby without the IRB. But what's to stop the club owners setting up their own provisional IRB and running their own international competitions?
Pretty much got it one there Hardy.
Well if France , Wales and England decided to supplant their Unions and create new international setups they would only have to convince South Africa to join them and this would cause the Kiwis/ Australia / Islanders/Argentina to follow fairly quickly so yes it is very plausible that they clubs could take on the IRB if they didn't side with them.
To top it all off here is a link to the ERC's proposed deal (well complete capitulation to the demands) ,
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/25300.php#.UmlHbHCsim4 .
They pretty much have ceded everything to the clubs but there is no mention of who will run the competition or the TV rights so there is a bit to go yet!!!
The English, French, Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Italian governing bodies have agreed to change the structure of European club rugby.
After meetings in Dublin, they agreed on the formation of two tweaked competitions of 20 teams each as well as a change in revenue distribution.
But top English and French clubs, who have proposed a breakaway competition from next season, were not present.
The Anglo-French plan has been backed by the four Welsh regions.
Premiership Rugby (PRL) in England and Ligue Nationale de Rugby (LNR) in France say they will have no involvement in the Heineken Cup or Amlin Challenge Cup from next season.
Instead of competing in European Rugby Cup (ERC) competitions, the PRL and LNR plan to form an alternative Rugby Champions Cup.
Details of this competition could be rolled out next month.
PRL and LNR are unhappy at how teams qualify for the Heineken Cup, especially from the RaboDirect Pro12 league, and how proceeds are shared.
Currently, only the top six clubs in England and France are guaranteed a place in the Heineken Cup, whereas at least 10 Pro12 outfits - including both Scottish teams (Edinburgh and Glasgow), both Italian teams (Treviso and Zebre) and a minimum of three sides each from Wales and Ireland - have automatic entry into the competition.
As part of the new proposals, only seven clubs from the Pro12 would qualify for the primary tournament.
In addition, the revenue would be split evenly between the three leagues - the English Premiership, France's Top 14 and the Pro12 - as proposed by English and French clubs in June of last year.
But PRL said Thursday's developments offer "no more than half a solution" to the crisis.
"It seems that the proposals we have made on competition formats and on financial distribution have been accepted," said its chief executive Mark McCafferty.
"Hopefully, it is a sign that in due course the whole approach we've been proposing is bought into. I guess time will tell.
"It is far from complete, but the pieces they have commented on are in line with what we've proposed.
"We have always said that there is no way we are going into any competitions that are run by ERC after the end of this season. That hasn't changed.
"We feel a fresh start has got to be made."
Remaining stumbling blocks are the rival television broadcasting deals between Sky and BT and the insistence of English and French outfits that clubs should run European competitions, rather than the unions.
Representatives from the Rugby Football Union, French Rugby Federation, Scottish Rugby Union, Welsh Rugby Union, Irish Rugby Union and Italian Rugby Federation were all present in Dublin.
They issued a statement which read: "Progress has been made on a number of issues relating to the future of European club rugby competition.
"The primary competition would be made up of 20 clubs, with six each from PRL and the LNR, and seven from the Pro12 tournament.
"The clubs would come through meritocratic qualification from their respective leagues and, in the case of the Pro12, there will be at least one club guaranteed from each country.
"In year one, the 20th place would be allocated through a play-off match between the seventh-placed PRL and LNR clubs.
"The secondary competition would consist of up to 20 clubs made up of the remaining 18 PRL, LNR and Pro12 clubs. Two places could be allocated to clubs qualifying from a third competition.
"There is also consensus that distributable revenues generated through the competitions would be divided one third, one third, one third per league with the stipulation that monies to be received by the Pro12 countries would not be less than the current levels."
The PRL, the LNR and the four Welsh regions have not yet been consulted on the proposals and it is unclear who will run these proposed European club competitions from next year.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/2013/1128/489759-heineken-cup/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/2013/1128/489759-heineken-cup/)
I know it wasn't a complete capitulation and we are looking at changes but it's delightful to see the climb down these poor bastards have had to make. Gives the four nations particular negotiating strength too since the English would be working at half levels without the HC. I wonder how the FFR got clubs onside?
What's the outcome now anyway, puts the ERC back in the driving seat and throws a spanner in the English plan for the Virgin Sports takeover.
Great win for Connacht in France against Toulouse!
Quote from: sans pessimism on December 08, 2013, 05:03:38 PM
Great win for Connacht in France against Toulouse!
equivalent of Cobh Ramblers beating Barcelona in the Nou Camp.
Hardly, given Connacht's record of results in Europe. Monetarily speaking there's obviously a massive ocean between the two.
Up the Wesht.
Super performance from Dan Parks. Massive win for Connacht. All 4 Irish teams won this weekend.
Quote from: Syferus on December 08, 2013, 05:42:58 PM
Hardly, given Connacht's record of results in Europe. Monetarily speaking there's obviously a massive ocean between the two.
Up the Wesht.
remind of their record in france in the HEC?
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 08, 2013, 05:44:32 PM
Super performance from Dan Parks. Massive win for Connacht. All 4 Irish teams won this weekend.
Are the highlights on anywhere, I don't see them on the rte schedule?
Quote from: Main Street on December 08, 2013, 06:13:26 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 08, 2013, 05:44:32 PM
Super performance from Dan Parks. Massive win for Connacht. All 4 Irish teams won this weekend.
Are the highlights on anywhere, I don't see them on the rte schedule?
Yeah, highlights on TG4 at the min.
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 08, 2013, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 08, 2013, 06:13:26 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 08, 2013, 05:44:32 PM
Super performance from Dan Parks. Massive win for Connacht. All 4 Irish teams won this weekend.
Are the highlights on anywhere, I don't see them on the rte schedule?
Yeah, highlights on TG4 at the min.
Thanks RT, just in the nick time for the Connacht match
#DanParksforIreland
Truly epic from Connacht.
Why was that try ruled out?
Quote from: INDIANA on December 08, 2013, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 08, 2013, 05:42:58 PM
Hardly, given Connacht's record of results in Europe. Monetarily speaking there's obviously a massive ocean between the two.
Up the Wesht.
remind of their record in france in the HEC?
When Leinster were getting bet out the gate by the might of Milan Rugby or drawing at home to Edinburgh Rievers , Connacht were the first Irish province to win a European game in France against Nice and the first Irish province to win a European game in England against Northhampton. There was rugby pre Leinster's Celtic league win in 2002 Indiana 8).
Quote from: Crete Boom on December 08, 2013, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 08, 2013, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 08, 2013, 05:42:58 PM
Hardly, given Connacht's record of results in Europe. Monetarily speaking there's obviously a massive ocean between the two.
Up the Wesht.
remind of their record in france in the HEC?
When Leinster were getting bet out the gate by the might of Milan Rugby or drawing at home to Edinburgh Rievers , Connacht were the first Irish province to win a European game in France against Nice and the first Irish province to win a European game in England against Northhampton. There was rugby pre Leinster's Celtic league win in 2002 Indiana 8).
heineken cup was it?
Quote from: Crete Boom on December 08, 2013, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 08, 2013, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 08, 2013, 05:42:58 PM
Hardly, given Connacht's record of results in Europe. Monetarily speaking there's obviously a massive ocean between the two.
Up the Wesht.
remind of their record in france in the HEC?
When Leinster were getting bet out the gate by the might of Milan Rugby or drawing at home to Edinburgh Rievers , Connacht were the first Irish province to win a European game in France against Nice and the first Irish province to win a European game in England against Northhampton. There was rugby pre Leinster's Celtic league win in 2002 Indiana 8).
Connacht actually have a decent record away in France. Albeit most of it was in the Amlin. Think they won over in Montpellier as well.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 08, 2013, 07:24:45 PM
Quote from: Crete Boom on December 08, 2013, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on December 08, 2013, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 08, 2013, 05:42:58 PM
Hardly, given Connacht's record of results in Europe. Monetarily speaking there's obviously a massive ocean between the two.
Up the Wesht.
remind of their record in france in the HEC?
When Leinster were getting bet out the gate by the might of Milan Rugby or drawing at home to Edinburgh Rievers , Connacht were the first Irish province to win a European game in France against Nice and the first Irish province to win a European game in England against Northhampton. There was rugby pre Leinster's Celtic league win in 2002 Indiana 8).
Connacht actually have a decent record away in France. Albeit most of it was in the Amlin. Think they won over in Montpellier as well.
Big difference though,beating the mighty Toulouse in the Hino
HC shaping up nicely. Imagine if all 4 teams qualified !!
Leinster looking great at the minute, Munster ticking along nicely but big game coming up on weekend. Ulster going ok but not setting world alight but may do when injuries clear up whilst Connacht can beat zebre and Toulouse at home then could qualify but honestly will be unlikely.
For Irish, 3 teams in last 8 will be good and the winner will come from either of the 3 if draw is favourable.
Outside Irish danger is sarries and clermont
Quote from: Mikhailov on December 09, 2013, 02:53:44 PM
HC shaping up nicely. Imagine if all 4 teams qualified !!
Leinster looking great at the minute, Munster ticking along nicely but big game coming up on weekend. Ulster going ok but not setting world alight but may do when injuries clear up whilst Connacht can beat zebre and Toulouse at home then could qualify but honestly will be unlikely.
For Irish, 3 teams in last 8 will be good and the winner will come from either of the 3 if draw is favourable.
Outside Irish danger is sarries and clermont
Was at Ravenhill on Sat night and to be honest the Italians weren't great but the performance put in by Ulster was top drawer, they never stopped and as you say they have a few boys on the injured list to come in, they more than doubled the handicap given to them by PP which was -22 points.
If they managed to get a home draw they would be a handful for most teams
Munster will regret that opening day defeat in Edinburgh I think. Perpignan were poor yesterday, but will be a different kettle of fish over there.
Quote from: trileacman on November 30, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/2013/1128/489759-heineken-cup/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/2013/1128/489759-heineken-cup/)
I know it wasn't a complete capitulation and we are looking at changes but it's delightful to see the climb down these poor b**tards have had to make. Gives the four nations particular negotiating strength too since the English would be working at half levels without the HC. I wonder how the FFR got clubs onside?
What's the outcome now anyway, puts the ERC back in the driving seat and throws a spanner in the English plan for the Virgin Sports takeover.
Are the English clubs definitely out at this stage?
Quote from: LeoMc on December 09, 2013, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 30, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/2013/1128/489759-heineken-cup/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/2013/1128/489759-heineken-cup/)
I know it wasn't a complete capitulation and we are looking at changes but it's delightful to see the climb down these poor b**tards have had to make. Gives the four nations particular negotiating strength too since the English would be working at half levels without the HC. I wonder how the FFR got clubs onside?
What's the outcome now anyway, puts the ERC back in the driving seat and throws a spanner in the English plan for the Virgin Sports takeover.
Are the English clubs definitely out at this stage?
Yeah, for next year.
Hissy-fit pricks.
Jamie Heaslip and Sean O Brien being heavily linked with moves to Toulouse and Clermont http://t.co/8y2BQjjx3n
Bit of a come down from last week - only 2/4 wins and Munster showing typical spirit to sneak it at the death but it is to expected from great clubs with super history. Leinster were poor and seemed complacent, whereas Connacht were up against a vengeful Toulouse and coming of the back of a virus hit squad. Ulster trundle along with 2 easy and expected victories and could go close. According to SS2 today their injury list in unbelievable - if all come back they will go close especially if home qtr final. Injured at the minute are best, ferris, bowe, Henry, Wallace, Williams, Henderson - all potential starters.
Next round will shape the comp with some qualifiers nearly home and hosed at that stage.
Some finish in Perpignan today. Some guts to pull that out. Huge game in Gloucester now. Basically a group decider and the loser probably won't get a best runner up spot.
Can highlights be seen anywhere?
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 14, 2013, 10:49:50 PM
Can highlights be seen anywhere?
The Heineken cup website has some highlights.
They pulled that game out of the fire, but was it not more of a shock that Munster made a last gasp winning score from a first phase of play?
I was all ready to settle down for 15 or 20 steam gushing phases.
Quote from: Main Street on December 15, 2013, 10:10:42 AM
They pulled that game out of the fire, but was it not more of a shock that Munster made a last gasp winning score from a first phase of play?
I was all ready to settle down for 15 or 20 steam gushing phases.
This is what they are trying to cultivate. Hell of a time to pull it off.
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 14, 2013, 10:49:50 PM
Can highlights be seen anywhere?
http://www.tg4.ie/ie/player/tg4-player.html
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 15, 2013, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 15, 2013, 10:10:42 AM
They pulled that game out of the fire, but was it not more of a shock that Munster made a last gasp winning score from a first phase of play?
I was all ready to settle down for 15 or 20 steam gushing phases.
This is what they are trying to cultivate. Hell of a time to pull it off.
It was brilliant, almost New Zealand-esque.
Casey Laulala leaving at the end of the year. Hard to know what to make of him really. I've never really warmed to him, but he has played a lot for Munster in his year plus here. But if I, and the other 26k at Thomond Park, know that he's going to do that stupid stutter step, and that he'll try at least one lunatic behind the back one handed offload, then I'm sure the opposition defences know it too.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 15, 2013, 01:29:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 15, 2013, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 15, 2013, 10:10:42 AM
They pulled that game out of the fire, but was it not more of a shock that Munster made a last gasp winning score from a first phase of play?
I was all ready to settle down for 15 or 20 steam gushing phases.
This is what they are trying to cultivate. Hell of a time to pull it off.
It was brilliant, almost New Zealand-esque.
It was brilliant, but I think the best part was the way Paul O'Connell just said 'Calm down lads'. After those two absolutely brutal passes coming off the scrum, I thought they had fizzled out. He got the ball, drove forward and set up quick ball. That was what stopped it from being a frantic throw it around madness episode, and helped it turn into a really devestating attack. Tommy O'Donnell's footwork on the touchline was unreal, and JJ Hanrahan's step was very good as well. Even Hurley, the big jinnet, managed a nice offload. That's what Penney wants to see, but Munster are just not that good at it unfortunately.
As it stands at the minute (and it is very hypothetical) the draw for the qtr finals would be as follows;
Ulster (1) v Leicester (8) - did meet in group
Sarries (2) v Toulouse (7) - did meet in group
Clermont (3) v Leinster (6)
Toulon (4) v Munster (5)
Lot of big teams still there and arguably the top 8 teams in the competition - no major teams missing out but you argue for Northampton.
Munster are well placed now with Edinburgh shocking Gloucester yesterday. I can still see Munster losing over there, but i can't see Edinburgh turning over Munster at Thomond Park.
Munster are in the quarter finals again with a game to spare. They beat Gloucester by 20 points to 7.
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 11, 2014, 11:42:28 PM
Munster are in the quarter finals again with a game to spare. They beat Gloucester by 20 points to 7.
They played very well too. Good to see Zebo back. Looked like a great atmosphere at Kingsholm. It must have been a sell out.
Ulster have qualified as well with Leinster next up this afternoon away to Castres. What's the story with Madigan?
Hasn't been the same since they surgically removed the dead stoat from his head. In all seriousness he's a fine 10, but he's victim of a very pragmatic club decision by Leinster to bring in Goppard. This is why when I hear talk of the provinces primary role being do develop Irish talent, I smile. If that were truly the case we'd have a lot less imports playing important roles at the provinces.
Would agree re the Madigan
Leinster are looking very shaky in France 14 -0 down
Back in it now, Copperth try and converts.
Yeah, pity he missed the conversion. Exciting first half
Great come back to win 29-22. Home match v Ospreys next Friday to win the group.
see in Irish news today that Ulster were 7/1 to win the HC outright last week but after last weeks win over Montpellier they are now 18/1 to win it. Strange, whilst admitting that Ulster failed to get bonus point the circumstances are still the same in that they have to win 2 games to get home qtr final. Leinster and Munster both dominant in their games after initial opening period and even though it looks like they will be away in quarter final, no other team will want to play them in April. Leinster will give it a real go and could go close, Munster would be very hard to beat in a tight game and Ulster could go close if they beat Leicester and secure home qtr final spot. Not sure if they have enough in the squad to go to Toulon / Toulouse or CA and gain a victory so it is critical that they win away this weekend.
Jordi Murphy looks a real find for Leinster and with O'Brien out for a while is certain to get plenty of game time and bring his game on. A certain Irish no.7/8 for the future but we are well served in this area anyway (Henry, Murphy, Ferris if fit, O,Mahony, O'Brien, Diack, Wilson, Jennings, Henderson, O'Donnell to name a few).
Quote from: Mikhailov on January 15, 2014, 04:30:42 PM
Jordi Murphy looks a real find for Leinster and with O'Brien out for a while is certain to get plenty of game time and bring his game on. A certain Irish no.7/8 for the future but we are well served in this area anyway (Henry, Murphy, Ferris if fit, O,Mahony, O'Brien, Diack, Wilson, Jennings, Henderson, O'Donnell to name a few).
What sort of a ridiculous name is Jordi?
You wouldn't get that in Munster.
He was born in Barcelona.
Big weekend for the boys from the Whest, after toying with Toulouse in France this should be a piece of cake. Then off to Belfast for the quarters
Maith thu Uladh!
How do Ulster pay the big named players like Peinaar, Aofoa & the like? Are they profitable in a business sense or is there a sugar daddy picking up their wages?
Quote from: bennydorano on January 18, 2014, 08:54:30 PM
Maith thu Uladh!
How do Ulster pay the big named players like Peinaar, Aofoa & the like? Are they profitable in a business sense or is there a sugar daddy picking up their wages?
Rory McIlroy
Quote from: glens abu on January 18, 2014, 09:01:48 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 18, 2014, 08:54:30 PM
Maith thu Uladh!
How do Ulster pay the big named players like Peinaar, Aofoa & the like? Are they profitable in a business sense or is there a sugar daddy picking up their wages?
Rory McIlroy
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-deny-mcilroy-is-bankrolling-provinces-big-earners-26727279.html
Have read that stuff, but would gate takings, sponsorship & TV money be enough in their own right? Hardly?
Quote from: redcard on January 18, 2014, 09:05:16 PM
Quote from: glens abu on January 18, 2014, 09:01:48 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 18, 2014, 08:54:30 PM
Maith thu Uladh!
How do Ulster pay the big named players like Peinaar, Aofoa & the like? Are they profitable in a business sense or is there a sugar daddy picking up their wages?
Rory McIlroy
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-deny-mcilroy-is-bankrolling-provinces-big-earners-26727279.html
That article is three years old in fairness
Have heard the rumours about McIlroy before but to what extent he is involved if any is debatable. Leinster have big non-Irish stars in current & previous times as did Munster so it is not a one off scenario. The puzzling thing is that with the increase in capacity = increase in revenue yet they have refused to meet the wage demands of Afoa and Court going forward and they both move on at end if this season. Both are experienced players so Ulster must have plan B in place - Muller reported to be retiring so that is 3 big time players gone and no immenent announcement of any replacements. I know they have Henderson, Fitzpatrick etc but needs numbers for the squad. How much is Zane Kirchner on with Leinster..? Highly rated full back on worldwide basis but so is Kearney so didn't see the logic in signing him especially as Leinster are not short of back line players.... Very expensive sub but a quality player all the same. BJ Botha wouldn't accept Ulster offer and went to Munster for bigger deal therefore money is readily available in all provinces if they deem it necessary.
Munster to win today and secure 4th and home draw against Leinster or CA ... Big game that would be....!!!!!!!
That was some performance from Ulster- a huge improvement from last week and , particularly, the poor show against Leinster at Christmas. I thought Henry and Wilson were outstanding and Pienaar is doing what David Humphreys did for years. It is interesting that they didn't push the boat out to keep Afoa and Court but clear that they did want to keep Pienaar and Best. Ravenhill will be rocking for the quarter-final; Saracens will be no pushover but with Bowe to come back, 18/1 to 13/2 is some drop after one game!
Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 19, 2014, 12:06:25 PM
That was some performance from Ulster- a huge improvement from last week and , particularly, the poor show against Leinster at Christmas. I thought Henry and Wilson were outstanding and Pienaar is doing what David Humphreys did for years. It is interesting that they didn't push the boat out to keep Afoa and Court but clear that they did want to keep Pienaar and Best. Ravenhill will be rocking for the quarter-final; Saracens will be no pushover but with Bowe to come back, 18/1 to 13/2 is some drop after one game!
It was never a question that Ulster didn't want to keep Afoa or that they couldn't afford him. His wife didn't take to Belfast and decided to stay in NZ, so John has spent much of the last season shuttling back and forth. That was never going to be a suitable arrangement for either the player or the club, so a move was inevitable. Tom Court got an offer he couldn't refuse, pure and simple. At 33, he was never going to get another long term deal from Ulster, but London Irish offered him a 3 year contract. He'll be a loss to Ulster, no doubt about it. Seeing him beating his chest last night after winning a vital scrum shows that he still has the desire to win big matches.
Assuming Racing don't get a miracle come back.
QF draw:
Ulster v Saracens
Clermont v Leicester
Toulon v Leinster
Munster v Toulouse
Heineken Cup Semi-Final draw:
Ulster/Saracens v Clermont Auvergne/Leicester
Toulon/Leinster v Munster/Toulouse
Ties to be played 25/26/27 April
If Ulster and Leinster both win then both semis will be in Ireland
Premature, I know (not that it's ever stopped anyone before), but any talk among the egg-chasers of a Munster-Leinster semi-final being played in Croke Park?
Quote from: deiseach on January 22, 2014, 09:28:54 AM
Premature, I know (not that it's ever stopped anyone before), but any talk among the egg-chasers of a Munster-Leinster semi-final being played in Croke Park?
Perhaps if Ulster also got there and they didnt think the Aviva could take 2 matches in 2 days, it might be considered. But I doubt it.
Mils Muliaina signing for Connacht one year deal, some coup for them http://t.co/RS37QMJ3zT
different name but same competition - and same old Munster !!
For Ronan O'Gara see Ian Keatley !!
Are Munster on the tv anywhere?
BT Sports 2
Looking forward to Ravenhill tomorrow. Any Back line with Halfpenny; Armitage, Bastareaud & Habana has to be worth seeing up close.
Keatley had a shocker tonight kicking, his general play was good though.
Ulster struggling badly all over the place. Pienaar a huge loss they're a shadow of what they were last year.
Can't believe England won't make an exemption for Armitage as well. He is a serious operator and I think they'd canter the 6N with him in the team and ruffle the Southern Hemisphere with his breakdown work @ the WC... Actually thank God they won't!!
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2014, 02:41:47 PM
Ulster struggling badly all over the place. Pienaar a huge loss they're a shadow of what they were last year.
Can't believe England won't make an exemption for Armitage as well. He is a serious operator and I think they'd canter the 6N with him in the team and ruffle the Southern Hemisphere with his breakdown work @ the WC... Actually thank God they won't!!
With Owen Farrell England won't canter to anything.
Good grinding win for leinster in France .intetesting that shane Horgan is not wearing a poppy, I would have thought that any analyst or presenter on British tv would have no choice in the matter!!
Quote from: cicfada on October 26, 2014, 02:48:13 PM
Good grinding win for leinster in France .intetesting that shane Horgan is not wearing a poppy, I would have thought that any analyst or presenter on British tv would have no choice in the matter!!
Is it that time of the year again?!
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 26, 2014, 03:17:30 PM
Quote from: cicfada on October 26, 2014, 02:48:13 PM
Good grinding win for leinster in France .intetesting that shane Horgan is not wearing a poppy, I would have thought that any analyst or presenter on British tv would have no choice in the matter!!
Is it that time of the year again?!
I was a meeting last Tuesday and there was a lad wearing a poppy , first I seen this year!
Quote from: cicfada on October 26, 2014, 02:48:13 PM
Good grinding win for leinster in France .intetesting that shane Horgan is not wearing a poppy, I would have thought that any analyst or presenter on British tv would have no choice in the matter!!
BOD is wearing one on BT Sport.
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2014, 02:41:47 PM
Ulster struggling badly all over the place. Pienaar a huge loss they're a shadow of what they were last year.
Can't believe England won't make an exemption for Armitage as well. He is a serious operator and I think they'd canter the 6N with him in the team and ruffle the Southern Hemisphere with his breakdown work @ the WC... Actually thank God they won't!!
Pienaar's a huge loss, but also missing through injury were Trimble, Henderson, Tuohy and Marshall, with O'Connor suspended. Ulster simply don't have the strength in depth to deal with that kind of injury / suspension list. And if that wasn't enough, there's the ongoing fiasco of Payne being played at 13 with Cave being left on the bench. Lots of arguments about whether or not that's at the request of Joe Schmidt, but whatever the reason, it's killing Ulster's season.