The Heineken Cup Thread

[johnneycool]

Let battle commence

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/heineken-cup-doomed-as-tv-war-breaks-out-16210416.html

Heineken Cup doomed as TV war breaks out

1 6 106By Chris Hewett
Thursday, 13 September 2012


The landscape of professional club rugby across Europe is likely to change dramatically as a result of a highly lucrative deal between England's leading teams and the telecoms giant BT – the latest big-money player in the sports broadcasting market, ambitious enough to have splashed out £1bn on rights over the last three months.

The contract, worth up to £152m to the Premiership teams over four years, threatens to transform the politics of the game in the northern hemisphere, as well as its economics.


Premier Rugby, the umbrella organisation representing the 12 top-flight sides in the country, announced yesterday that BT had bought exclusive rights to league matches, starting next season. Negotiations were also held with the current broadcasters, BSkyB and ESPN, who have been splitting live broadcasts between them, but they either would not or could not match the BT bid. For BSkyB, the broadcasters who helped drive the sport towards professionalism in the mid-1990s and have been at the heart of the action ever since, it appeared to be a particularly heavy defeat.


As part of the new deal, BT will also have exclusive rights to any European matches involving Premiership clubs – and this is where the controversy begins. Premier Rugby, at serious loggerheads with Heineken Cup administrators over both the format and the commercial status of the world's leading club tournament, have, together with the French clubs, threatened to walk away from the competition in 2014 unless significant changes are agreed. This new money will strengthen their position when negotiations begin in earnest next week.


According to the Premiership clubs, the new money ring-fenced for European broadcasts will go into the common pot if agreement is reached, thereby increasing the financial take for all those involved. But by selling their European rights unilaterally, the English are effectively saying to the three Celtic nations and the Italians: "You can either see things our way, or you can do without our money."


The immediate response was very sharp indeed. Within hours, Heineken Cup officials upped the political ante by announcing that they had reached a new exclusive agreement with their existing broadcasters, BSkyB, until the end of the 2017-18 European campaign. Two rival TV companies: two exclusive deals. Something will have to give.

Is this not the second time the English clubs have thrown the toys out of the pram?

I presume the ring fenced part of the BT deal will obviously require the ERC to forfeit some or all of the Sky deal if it comes to it.

It's a real game of poker for the English clubs now. If the ERC buck them out then they'll lose their current ERC money and not get the BT money for the HC aspect of the deal and with most being cash strapped, its a pretty big gamble.

The ERC itself will need to decide on its next course of action, buck out the English clubs and then the Heino Cup isn't as lucrative to Sky and they'll maybe want to re-negotiate the current deal with the franchises in Scotland, Ireland and Wales losing out more than most due to the lack of revenue from the rabo direct 12 or whatever its called now!

[Hound]

England have the ERC over a barrel. They will have to compromise to allow a higher proportion of French/English clubs in, otherwise the French/English will set up their own European Cup and invite a few of the Rabo teams to participate. 

[GalwayBayBoy]

How can BT buy the rights for English clubs in the Heineken Cup? Only the ERC can sell those rights surely as it's their competition. Don't see how the English clubs and BT have a leg to stand on here.

[GalwayBayBoy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/22/premiership-top-14-breakaway-heineken-cup

The leading clubs in the Aviva Premiership in England and Top 14 in France are ready to organise an alternative tournament to the Heineken Cup because they feel European rugby's premier club competition is weighted too heavily in favour of the Celtic nations.

Strangely enough they never brought this up when their clubs were winning the HEC.

[Canalman]

England have the ERC over a barrel. They will have to compromise to allow a higher proportion of French/English clubs in, otherwise the French/English will set up their own European Cup and invite a few of the Rabo teams to participate.

You have hit the nail on the head there. Without English and French clubs the competition is finito and ERC know it.
Might be a compromise whereby only two Irish clubs (ahem) allowed in every season to be decided by the Rabo placings . Certainly would concentrate the Irish teams' minds in the league and give the English and French clubs the satisfaction that the Irish clubs aren't swanning  through the league and nailing them in the EC.

[deiseach]

If the Irish, Welsh and Scottish hang together they might just have a chance (the Italians will do as they are told). Sure, the English and the French can play each other, but it'd be about less interesting than the Calcutta Cup. I can see a concerted effort though on the part of the English to woo the Welsh. Play in our European Cup and we'll give you a bigger slice than you are getting from their European Cup. If the Welsh agree, the others will have to fall in line and Ireland would be the big losers. Interesting times ahead.

[johnneycool]

England have the ERC over a barrel. They will have to compromise to allow a higher proportion of French/English clubs in, otherwise the French/English will set up their own European Cup and invite a few of the Rabo teams to participate.

You have hit the nail on the head there. Without English and French clubs the competition is finito and ERC know it.
Might be a compromise whereby only two Irish clubs (ahem) allowed in every season to be decided by the Rabo placings . Certainly would concentrate the Irish teams' minds in the league and give the English and French clubs the satisfaction that the Irish clubs aren't swanning  through the league and nailing them in the EC.

Are the ERC, not members of the 6 nations competing countries ruling authorities like the IRFU, WRU etc, etc and sanctioned by the IRC?

I think the English premier league and the English ruby union rulers may be two separate organisations as there's been an uneasy peace between the two since the inception of professional rugby in England. This allows the league teams to negotiate their own commercial agreements and holds the contracts of the top players. Not sure how French rugby is structured

I really can't see the IRC allowing a split to occur.

[Capt Pat]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Poor old sky, what did they ever do to anyone? Sky though are like a cat with nine lives. They will fight tooth and nail for this and usually come out on top.

They need Leinster, Munster and Ulster to have an elite European competition. They are 3 of the 6 best teams in Europe. So there isn't too much to worry about there.

[deiseach]

Are the ERC, not members of the 6 nations competing countries ruling authorities like the IRFU, WRU etc, etc and sanctioned by the IRC?

I'm pretty sure that the English clubs are independent of the English RFU. I haven't got anything definitive to confirm that, but the fact that the RFU must negotiate the release of players - for example, the clubs have ensured that no player gets to play in each of the autumn internationals at Twickenham - shows that the clubs have, at the very least, a lot of autonomy. Maybe the IRB could blackball anyone who plays for such 'rebels' from playing international rugby.

[trileacman]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Poor old sky, what did they ever do to anyone? Sky though are like a cat with nine lives. They will fight tooth and nail for this and usually come out on top.

They need Leinster, Munster and Ulster to have an elite European competition. They are 3 of the 6 best teams in Europe. So there isn't too much to worry about there.

Would disagree with that, if Ulster or Munster were thrown into the French or English leagues would they qualify regularly for the HC?

[Dubh driocht]

Big win for Ulster at the Rec without Ferris.Slow but steady progress. Nevin Spence is one for the future- I remember seeing him play for Ballynahinch Under 16s 4 years ago and he had that bit of star quality. A potential long-term replacement for BOD ?

Terrible news about Nevin Spence, his brother and father. As he was so brave in the tackle, I can just imagine him trying to save his brother and father. While his career had stalled slightly since  I posted this, he remained a great prospect and this is a sad day for Ulster and Irish rugby.

[Capt Pat]

I see no reason why they wouldn't do quite well.

The English and French clubs are in the wrong here in the sense they need to reduce the number of games they play. In the NFL with all the body armour it is 16 games a year. This is all about money. The English want a game evrry saturday like the premier league. It doesn't really work like that pro rugby. There is no real Italian, German Spanish Eastern European competition  to bail them out.

This is all about the money but they will need two rosters to play every week which is twice as expensive. They need the Welsh and Irish clubs who are rugby

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Poor old sky, what did they ever do to anyone? Sky though are like a cat with nine lives. They will fight tooth and nail for this and usually come out on top.

They need Leinster, Munster and Ulster to have an elite European competition. They are 3 of the 6 best team :)s in Europe. So there isn't too much to worry about there.

Would disagree with that, if Ulster or Munster were thrown into the French or English leagues would they qualify regularly for the HC?

[trileacman]

I see no reason why they wouldn't do quite well.

The English and French clubs are in the wrong here in the sense they need to reduce the number of games they play. In the NFL with all the body armour it is 16 games a year. This is all about money. The English want a game evrry saturday like the premier league. It doesn't really work like that pro rugby. There is no real Italian, German Spanish Eastern European competition  to bail them out.

This is all about the money but they will need two rosters to play every week which is twice as expensive. They need the Welsh and Irish clubs who are rugby

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Poor old sky, what did they ever do to anyone? Sky though are like a cat with nine lives. They will fight tooth and nail for this and usually come out on top.

They need Leinster, Munster and Ulster to have an elite European competition. They are 3 of the 6 best team :)s in Europe. So there isn't too much to worry about there.

Would disagree with that, if Ulster or Munster were thrown into the French or English leagues would they qualify regularly for the HC?

Still disagree, the English and French are doing this with or without the Irish provinces, i.e they think they can do this without them. It's funny you're saying it's all about money and it won't work. That's exactly what was said about Rugby League, 100 odd years ago.

[Dubh driocht]

Ulster were too good too soon tonight but through an amazing twist of fate ended up with a 24 point win plus the all important bonus point win. The new coach Anscombe has made a difference and they were strong out of the traps- dominant up front and the backs on fire on a perfect night for rugby. Paddy Jackson is a revelation after the nightmare at Twickenham- he is the real deal. So is Iain Henderson in the second row- 20 years of age and a student at Queens but these guys most be contenders for the Ireland squad this year. Marshall was great and two excellent tries earned him MoM but it was inevitable that (there's only one ) Pieno came on to steal the show. Strange decisions to take off Tommy Bowe, allow Court to remain off after the sin-bin and to substitute Rory but it all worked out in the end. Castres (with the tyre mark shirts) may well fold now so a win in Glasgow will set up Ulster nicely to progress for the third consecutive year. Saw the 'real' Ulster flag with a tricolour included at the game; may have been the Italian variety but these European nights at Ravenhill are good value for Gaels at a loose end in Belfast.

[Celt_Man]

Mother of jaysus but it is a dose to have to watch Hightlights on TG4