The Heineken Cup Thread

[INDIANA]

A technically good tight-head will always have the edge on an equally technical loose-head because he is by nature generally heavier, 20 stone coming down on your neck is still 20 stone. Tight-head is one of the best paid positions in Europpean Rugby hence the likes of Carl Haymens, CJVL and Botha etc all plying their trade over here. Healy is probably 8 years from his prime, his scrummaging this year has been poor but he will learn from it.

Leinster rugby team spend far too much time out and about. Thats 50% of their problem. and its no bullshit. I've seen some who shall remain nameless on the razzle 4 days before an important game.

Absolute nonsense....   

Sure ladyboys don't drink 

. Unfortunately some of them are near professionals at it.

[Main Street]

But we know you are an attention seeking spoofer, prone to gossip on an internet discussion board.

[Capt Pat]

The thing I noticed about the scrum was that the refs would not allow any messing around. This meant the stronger scrummaging side was simply allowed to drive forward all day. This killed the Irish teams at the weekend. Munsters lineout also failed badly and they really missed O'Connell on a number of levels.

[INDIANA]

But we know you are an attention seeking spoofer, prone to gossip on an internet discussion board.

Bit difficult to gossip when they are sitting down skulling pints 2 feet away from you 4 days before a big game. I don't suffer from snow blindness and I don't gossip. I leave gossip to Monaghan people. By the way you'll find it under G in the dictionary.

[INDIANA]

The thing I noticed about the scrum was that the refs would not allow any messing around. This meant the stronger scrummaging side was simply allowed to drive forward all day. This killed the Irish teams at the weekend. Munsters lineout also failed badly and they really missed O'Connell on a number of levels.

Munster current team are finsihed Pat. Simple as. They face a huge rebuilding job now. Some of the older lads have about 18months left but thats it. Leinster have a far better academy and far more players coming through and will rebuild a lot quicker than Munster. The dearth of scrummaging options underlines the small playing base. But when you can't beat Scotland you can't do much at any level or expect gto do much at HEC level.

[Main Street]

Bit difficult to gossip when they are sitting down skulling pints 2 feet away from you 4 days before a big game. I don't suffer from snow blindness and I don't gossip.
- you'll find it under G in the dictionary.

Gossip
casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details that are not confirmed as being true - chiefly derogatory.

[Hound]

While of course Ireland does have a problem on the front row, to blame the two H Cup defeats on the scrum is a fierce over simplification. Toulouse and Biarritz both have very good front rows, it can't have been a surprise to anyone that they won the scrum battle in the two games.

I was at the Leinster game. Tremendous atmosphere. Personally I think there is very little between Toulouse and Leinster. On their day I believe Toulouse are the best team in Europe and that Leinster are the second best. IMO Leinster lost because they made too many mistakes. Kearney missing touch with a penalty was a serious error and punished with a try moments later. Leinster missed more important tackles than Toulouse (far more critical to the end result than the scrum) and Leinster had more handling errors and knock-ons. Toulouse were very good, very disciplined and gave nothing easy to Leinster. You have to take your hat off to them.

The scrum was more important in the Munster-Biarritz game, because when you add no scrum to no lineout it means no ball. Biarritz are a limited side, but they certainly did their stuff in the second half. If Munster had any ball they would have walked through them, but they couldnt get it unfortunately. A real pity as I think Munster would give Toulouse a better game in the final, but either way Toulouse will be champs.

[muppet]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8685351.stm

Rob Howley is the only Welshman in an all-time great Heineken Cup side chosen to mark 15 years of the competition.
The ex-scrum-half, now Wales' attack coach, scored 12 tries in 38 Heineken games and won both the Challenge Cup (2003) and Heineken (2004) with Wasps.
Players from five nations and six clubs were selected by a nine-man European Rugby Cup panel of former players, coaches and members of the media.
Wales flanker Martyn Williams was given the ERC Fair Play Award.
"It was widely felt that Williams is the embodiment of the player who upholds the values of the game of rugby in these European club competitions and in so doing is an inspirational role model as to how the game should be played," said an ERC statement.
Toulouse's Guy Noves was unanimously hailed as the best European coach of the last 15 years.
The ERC selection panel comprised Sir Ian McGeechan, Lawrence Dallaglio, Ieuan Evans, Fabien Galthie, Donal Lenihan, Michael Lynagh, Stuart Barnes, Stephen Jones and Jacques Verdier.
ERC European Dream Team: Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers); Josh Lewsey (London Wasps), Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster), Yannick Jauzion (Toulouse), Vincent Clerc (Toulouse); Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Rob Howley (London Wasps); Christian Califano (Toulouse), William Servat (Toulouse), Sylvain Marconnet (Stade Français Paris), Martin Johnson (Leicester Tigers), Fabien Pelous (Toulouse), Rocky Elsom (Leinster), David Wallace (Munster), Anthony Foley (Munster).

5 Irish is a good return since only one judge was Irish. Foley deserves his place but while he was a very good number 8 I think Heaslip will set the standard for the position in the same way Keith Wood and Brian O'Driscoll did for 2 and 13.

[Hoof Hearted]

O'Gara was also named as the best player of this era in the Heineken Cup.

Sky Sports are running 3 No. hour long shows tonight, tomorrow and Wed celebrating 15 years of the H Cup, taking 5 years per programme. Meant to post this earlier cause the first one is over. This would have contained Ulster's win in 99. Will probably repeated in the morning for those with Sky Plus

[GaillimhIarthair]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8685351.stm

Rob Howley is the only Welshman in an all-time great Heineken Cup side chosen to mark 15 years of the competition.
The ex-scrum-half, now Wales' attack coach, scored 12 tries in 38 Heineken games and won both the Challenge Cup (2003) and Heineken (2004) with Wasps.
Players from five nations and six clubs were selected by a nine-man European Rugby Cup panel of former players, coaches and members of the media.
Wales flanker Martyn Williams was given the ERC Fair Play Award.
"It was widely felt that Williams is the embodiment of the player who upholds the values of the game of rugby in these European club competitions and in so doing is an inspirational role model as to how the game should be played," said an ERC statement.
Toulouse's Guy Noves was unanimously hailed as the best European coach of the last 15 years.
The ERC selection panel comprised Sir Ian McGeechan, Lawrence Dallaglio, Ieuan Evans, Fabien Galthie, Donal Lenihan, Michael Lynagh, Stuart Barnes, Stephen Jones and Jacques Verdier.
ERC European Dream Team: Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers); Josh Lewsey (London Wasps), Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster), Yannick Jauzion (Toulouse), Vincent Clerc (Toulouse); Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Rob Howley (London Wasps); Christian Califano (Toulouse), William Servat (Toulouse), Sylvain Marconnet (Stade Français Paris), Martin Johnson (Leicester Tigers), Fabien Pelous (Toulouse), Rocky Elsom (Leinster), David Wallace (Munster), Anthony Foley (Munster).

5 Irish is a good return since only one judge was Irish. Foley deserves his place but while he was a very good number 8 I think Heaslip will set the standard for the position in the same way Keith Wood and Brian O'Driscoll did for 2 and 13.

I dont think Rocky Elsom deserves to be in there on the basis of one great season with Leinster!  Dallaglio should be in that team ahead of him IMO based on the past 15 years and the fact that he was instrumental in Wasps winning 2 HC's during this period.

[Hoof Hearted]

Good point about Dallaglio, but he maybe wasnt allowed to select himself. I thought elsom was a strange choice alright

[tyroneboi]

Tough draws for Munster and Leinster, not as bad for Ulster but still tough:

POOL 1: Cardiff Blues, Northampton Saints, Edinburgh, Castres Olympique

POOL 2: Leinster, ASM Clermont Auvergne, Saracens, Racing Metro 92

POOL 3: Munster, Ospreys, London Irish, RC Toulon

POOL 4: Biarritz Olympique Pays Basque, Bath Rugby, Ulster, Aironi Rugby

POOL 5: Leicester Tigers, Scarlets, Perpignan, Benetton Treviso

POOL 6: Toulouse, London Wasps, Glasgow Warriors, Newport Gwent Dragons

[Hoof Hearted]

I have tickets bought for Cardiff 2011, my 3rd H Cup final experience, and Munster (08) and Leinster (09) were victorious. Would love to see at least one, or both in next years final, but that draw is tough.

My early group winners predictions re :

1. Northampton
2. Clermont
3. Munster
4. Biarritz
5. Leicester
6. Toulouse.

Possible alternatives are Cardiff in 1 and Bath in 4.

Some great games in prospect, roll on October, December and January !!

[muppet]

I have tickets bought for Cardiff 2011, my 3rd H Cup final experience, and Munster (08) and Leinster (09) were victorious. Would love to see at least one, or both in next years final, but that draw is tough.

My early group winners predictions re :

1. Northampton
2. Clermont
3. Munster
4. Biarritz
5. Leicester
6. Toulouse.

Possible alternatives are Cardiff in 1 and Bath in 4.

Some great games in prospect, roll on October, December and January !!

Might see you there again. Ulster's turn this time.

[Capt Pat]

Tough group for Munster, but they are made for a group like that. They will finsih top and nobody else will qualify from it.
Leinster get Clermont again, Clermont have just won the French league and will be hungry for European glory next year. Ulster will be competing for second place behind Biarritz or they should be.

To be honest none of the Irish teams got a handy draw.