So League finals have passed us by, both teams suffered defeat at the hands of Munster teams, what sort of Omens do you think this has set out now for the Championship 1st round clash of the titans? Were both teams keeping their cards close to their chest in the hope of fooling their Ulster rival? Or were both teams simply just shockingly bad. Are the Bradley brothers and Freeman relied too much on and who has the strongest bench with the biggest number of options?
I would have Derry as favourites by quite a bit after yesterday. Thought Monaghan got exposed in the wide open spaces, hopefully a tighter Celtic Park will help them.
Our midfield is struggling and we don't have any options there at all. Lennon way off form and only 4 weeks to find it. Still think we need JP Mone out there but we don't have a FB either.
Derry are stronger than last year imo and have less reliance on Paddy Bradley. Still a bit wasteful in front of goal but will create plenty of chances.
Will take a massive Monaghan effot to win, akin to Casement Park two years ago. Derry will be ready and willing from the off I feel.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on April 27, 2009, 12:43:35 PM
So League finals have passed us by, both teams suffered defeat at the hands of Munster teams, what sort of Omens do you think this has set out now for the Championship 1st round clash of the titans?
No omens. Neither team got out of 3rd gear. In Monaghans case they had a near full strength team but they didnt seem interested in imposing themselves on the game. Derry were short a lot of players. I wouldnt read too much into the finals.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on April 27, 2009, 12:43:35 PM
Were both teams keeping their cards close to their chest in the hope of fooling their Ulster rival? Or were both teams simply just shockingly bad.
Monaghan were particularly bad played with no defensive system but whilst not suggesting that any team goes out to lose, they can be sent out not fully primed to win. Monaghan are now well established under Banty and they will definitely have a concrete system of play come match day. In many ways losing the league final is no worse than winning them, especially in Derrys case where we have had more than enough success in the league, and subsequent failure in the summer.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on April 27, 2009, 12:43:35 PM
Are the Bradley brothers and Freeman relied too much on and who has the strongest bench with the biggest number of options?
Every paper you read always goes over the 'too-reliant on the Bradleys' spiel. I think that quite often the case is that they are 2 quality players who are up there with the best in the country and naturally outshine the good players around them. Mark Lynch for example, is starting to look the part in the FF line. His powerful runs provide a good outlet and he brings balance as a right footer. Muldoon and Murphy will also chip in and under Cassidy we have more defenders chipping in, our half backs can all take scores. From what I have seen of Monaghan they too seem to have a good spread of scorers, Freeman, Woods, Finlay and McManus.
On the bench issue I would argue that Derry are superior in this sector. A lot of players have had 'GAMETIME', as Green man is fond of saying, and when these injuries clear up we now have back up for every sector. This is not to say Monaghan have a weak bench but they have had a relatively consistent starting 15 for a while now. I think if they lost say Finlay and Freeman it would hurt them more than us losing Paddy B and Doc, provided Patsy B and Skinner were there.
Despite how bad we were against Monaghan the past 2 years the games were still close. I think we are due to win this one, albeit marginally.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on April 27, 2009, 12:43:35 PM
So League finals have passed us by, both teams suffered defeat at the hands of Munster teams, what sort of Omens do you think this has set out now for the Championship 1st round clash of the titans? Were both teams keeping their cards close to their chest in the hope of fooling their Ulster rival? Or were both teams simply just shockingly bad. Are the Bradley brothers and Freeman relied too much on and who has the strongest bench with the biggest number of options?
Players like Freeman and Bradley are relied upon because they are very good players. If a team have others to take on the responsibility then fine. If not, you do your best. It's not as if a county like Monaghan can produce a player like T Freeman in twos and threes.
I don't see it as a weakness, it's just a reality.
Who can tell with Derry. Last year they won the league but by the time they came to Clones they looked a dishevelled dispirited bunch, beaten by a Monaghan team just warily putting the bits and pieces together to rediscover their shape. I'm told that this year will be different for Derry, that the new management will have sorted out a few important issues.
That's close enough to Monaghan's first team you saw on Sunday and some foolishly might say "if so, then Monaghan are fecked".
Not so in my opinion, no matter what best team you put out in a div 2 final, if they don't perform then they will look very inept.
The Monaghan team will not perform like that for the Derry game.
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2009, 02:10:40 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on April 27, 2009, 12:43:35 PM
So League finals have passed us by, both teams suffered defeat at the hands of Munster teams, what sort of Omens do you think this has set out now for the Championship 1st round clash of the titans? Were both teams keeping their cards close to their chest in the hope of fooling their Ulster rival? Or were both teams simply just shockingly bad. Are the Bradley brothers and Freeman relied too much on and who has the strongest bench with the biggest number of options?
Players like Freeman and Bradley are relied upon because they are very good players. If a team have others to take on the responsibility then fine. If not, you do your best. It's not as if a county like Monaghan can produce a player like T Freeman in twos and threes.
I don't see it as a weakness, it's just a reality.
Who can tell with Derry. Last year they won the league but by the time they came to Clones they looked a dishevelled dispirited bunch, beaten by a Monaghan team just warily putting the bits and pieces together to rediscover their shape. I'm told that this year will be different for Derry, that the new management will have sorted out a few important issues.
That's close enough to Monaghan's first team you saw on Sunday and some foolishly might say "if so, then Monaghan are fecked".
Not so in my opinion, no matter what best team you put out in a div 2 final, if they don't perform then they will look very inept.
The Monaghan team will not perform like that for the Derry game.
....and Derry have not had experienced the championship 'borderline' play that Monaghan and a few others do so well.
In the past Derry have lost the head shouting at the ref or resorting to retaliation and forgetting to play football and losing the game as a result.
Monaghan have been playing as a unit for the past few years and will find it easier to get back into that grove than a still experimantal Derry side with no continuity will have.
Derry have the talent, but teams win championship games.Can Derry get it together in time?
I think the most important aspect in this game is that the old rules will be back in place which will suit Monaghan a lot more than Derry I would think
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on April 27, 2009, 05:17:31 PM
I think the most important aspect in this game is that the old rules will be back in place which will suit Monaghan a lot more than Derry I would think
would agree
Monaghan are a lot more street wise and 'cuter' at the 'black arts' than Derry
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 27, 2009, 05:33:17 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on April 27, 2009, 05:17:31 PM
I think the most important aspect in this game is that the old rules will be back in place which will suit Monaghan a lot more than Derry I would think
would agree
Monaghan are a lot more street wise and 'cuter' at the 'black arts' than Derry
a first time for everything I guess... ;D
Monaghan are just apprentices when it comes to the dark arts as well as half the team are no bigger than skinny runts.
I wouldn't play poker against someone from Derry.
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2009, 06:12:58 PM
Monaghan are just apprentices when it comes to the dark arts as well as half the team are no bigger than skinny runts.
I wouldn't play poker against someone from Derry.
Corey, Clerkin, Freeman, Mc Quaid, Finaly, Woods etc :o Ok if you say so...
???
I said half the team.
Look like they have just been confirmed, still with the halos.
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2009, 06:23:22 PM
???
I said half the team.
Look like they have just been confirmed, still with the halos.
Well you;d be hard pushed to find as many burly men on most county teams.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on April 27, 2009, 06:18:22 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2009, 06:12:58 PM
Monaghan are just apprentices when it comes to the dark arts as well as half the team are no bigger than skinny runts.
I wouldn't play poker against someone from Derry.
Corey, Clerkin, Freeman, Mc Quaid, Finaly, Woods etc :o Ok if you say so...
I'd hardly call Freeman big or burly!
McQuaid?
Here he is trying to get to grips with one of Kerry's smallest players.
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s31/geithals/midgets.jpg)
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on April 27, 2009, 06:32:24 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2009, 06:23:22 PM
???
I said half the team.
Look like they have just been confirmed, still with the halos.
Well you;d be hard pushed to find as many burly men on most county teams.
Eh? Are you having a laugh? Monaghan are probably one of the smaller teams in Ulster. Compare Monaghan's lineout to that of Cork yesterday for example. And compare the height and weight of the Derry squad in yesterday's programme and tell me who has more of these 'burly men' you speak of.
I think he meant dirty.
You are missing the sarcastic smiley EG
or
are you saying we can't trust the clear written words of a Derryman.
We can't trust that a Derryman knows what the feck he is writing about. :)
We were well beaten by both Cork and Kildare, litterly pushed around the park both times as if we were a buch of Minors playing Seniors for the first time.
Taking candy from a kid.
The gentle giants that make up the Derry team should have no problem dealing with the 10 or so featherweights in the Monaghan squad.
Now we have even resorted to finding out the whereabouts of Vinny Corey's lost twin.
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2009, 11:33:28 PM
You are missing the sarcastic smiley EG
or
are you saying we can't trust the clear written words of a Derryman.
We can't trust that a Derryman knows what the feck he is writing about. :)
We were well beaten by both Cork and Kildare, litterly pushed around the park both times as if we were a buch of Minors playing Seniors for the first time.
Taking candy from a kid.
The gentle giants that make up the Derry team should have no problem dealing with the 10 or so featherweights in the Monaghan squad.
Now we have even resorted to finding out the whereabouts of Vinny Corey's lost twin.
you have now resorted , my good fellow, to the noble art of 'arseboxing'
all this deferential 'we are not worthy' and we are only a squad of wee boys craic !
As we all know, Banty has monaghan pumped up for playing for the county based on that 'nobody likes us' ' we are always written off' and that we are a small county that no one rates us craic - so the cute hoors that can play 'on the edge' of the rules have a field day.
Apart from one or two exceptions down the years (mcKeever springs to mind), Derry never had men to do that kind of craic, rather the straightforward 'mess with me , I'll deck you' attitude shown by McGilligan etc.
Its an annual worry for me to see how Derry will respond to eny subversive tactics. Will they retaliate and get sent off, will they ignore and play football, will they fight fire with fire.
the latter is usually never an option. I hope Derry can keep their heads on the gameplan and playing football .
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 28, 2009, 10:50:08 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2009, 11:33:28 PM
You are missing the sarcastic smiley EG
or
are you saying we can't trust the clear written words of a Derryman.
We can't trust that a Derryman knows what the feck he is writing about. :)
We were well beaten by both Cork and Kildare, litterly pushed around the park both times as if we were a buch of Minors playing Seniors for the first time.
Taking candy from a kid.
The gentle giants that make up the Derry team should have no problem dealing with the 10 or so featherweights in the Monaghan squad.
Now we have even resorted to finding out the whereabouts of Vinny Corey's lost twin.
you have now resorted , my good fellow, to the noble art of 'arseboxing'
all this deferential 'we are not worthy' and we are only a squad of wee boys craic !
As we all know, Banty has monaghan pumped up for playing for the county based on that 'nobody likes us' ' we are always written off' and that we are a small county that no one rates us craic - so the cute hoors that can play 'on the edge' of the rules have a field day.
Apart from one or two exceptions down the years (mcKeever springs to mind), Derry never had men to do that kind of craic, rather the straightforward 'mess with me , I'll deck you' attitude shown by McGilligan etc.
Its an annual worry for me to see how Derry will respond to eny subversive tactics. Will they retaliate and get sent off, will they ignore and play football, will they fight fire with fire.
the latter is usually never an option. I hope Derry can keep their heads on the gameplan and playing football .
Ah get over yourself Lynchbhoy. You're the one being deferential if you expect everyone on here to believe that Derry are in no way a physical side and just 'want to play football' (bless them). Kevin McCloy, McGuckian, Fergal Doc, Eoin Bradley are all physical lads and will push the likes of Gollogly, Dessie Mone, Damien Freeman, Conor McManus and even Paul Finlay about the place at ease.
I'm really gettin fed up with this Monaghan are dirty craic - sure they play a physical type of game but it is well proven (Kerry 07 & 08, Cork 08, Kildare 08) that they can be bossed about the place. Cork are not a dirty team IMHO and completely and totally bossed Monaghan out of it on Sunday last.
Do you think Damien Cassidy has not noticed theses type of things???
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on April 28, 2009, 12:38:23 PM
Ah get over yourself Lynchbhoy. You're the one being deferential if you expect everyone on here to believe that Derry are in no way a physical side and just 'want to play football' (bless them). Kevin McCloy, McGuckian, Fergal Doc, Eoin Bradley are all physical lads and will push the likes of Gollogly, Dessie Mone, Damien Freeman, Conor McManus and even Paul Finlay about the place at ease.
I'm really gettin fed up with this Monaghan are dirty craic - sure they play a physical type of game but it is well proven (Kerry 07 & 08, Cork 08, Kildare 08) that they can be bossed about the place. Cork are not a dirty team IMHO and completely and totally bossed Monaghan out of it on Sunday last.
Do you think Damien Cassidy has not noticed theses type of things???
calm down calm down, dont think theres much to be 'getting over'
Only Mccloy would be a rough/dirty player (sure he's from lavey) - the rest are the type that worries me - reactionary , the will retaliate but dont start fights (ok Eoin B would cause a row in heaven) but if left alone playing football wouldnt be like that at all. McGuckian - hes too much of an alter boy type for my liking.
I'd much prefer to have the 'dirty' monaghan style to be honest. so dont get yer knickers in a twist.
Cork are a big physical side and they have a manager who was a fantastic but dirty hoor in his day and you can bet yer dollars that he is teaching them how to not get invlved and how to deal with such play.
I am sure Cassidy has noticed, but how can he deal with it is part of his big test.
Take it from me Lynchboy, for different reasons Derry did not perform in the last 2 games against Monaghan but us (allegedly) being well versed in the dark subversive arts had little to do with it.
Surely home advantage will ease much of the chronic insecurities and pessimism engrained in the inveterate Derry supporter :)
Derry will deservedly be warm favourites.
From our point of view we know that this bunch of Monaghan lads have been here before. They will be well prepared mentally and physically for this encounter and it's hard to put a value on that. No whiff of the dark arts about the threat of a well prepared team coming to do battle on your own turf.
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2009, 01:28:54 PM
Take it from me Lynchboy, for different reasons Derry did not perform in the last 2 games against Monaghan but us (allegedly) being well versed in the dark subversive arts had little to do with it.
Surely home advantage will ease much of the chronic insecurities and pessimism engrained in the inveterate Derry supporter :)
Derry will deservedly be warm favourites.
From our point of view we know that this bunch of Monaghan lads have been here before. They will be well prepared mentally and physically for this encounter and it's hard to put a value on that. No whiff of the dark arts about the threat of a well prepared team coming to do battle on your own turf.
maybe not so much in the qualifier game in clones, but certainly in the ulster championship meeting it played a large and significant part.
I always believe that you play your own game and ignore the opposition, the other aspect that Derry were missing was a defined gameplan and method of playing , this was lacking under prev manager. any team has to be 'right' coming into a game , Derry have been guilty in the past two meetings of that. A third time would be inexcusable.
Dont know why monaghan lads are annoyed that a large portion of their side are thought to be 'dirty'. Meath used to love that mantra and I'd much rather a hard rough side than a team of prima donas any day.
Looking forward to this game thoroughly... Think it is far too close too call.
How will the minor game go?
I don't know how Monaghan minors are the year but it would seem Derry Minors have been performing poorly to date in the league.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 28, 2009, 02:00:02 PM
maybe not so much in the qualifier game in clones, but certainly in the ulster championship meeting it played a large and significant part.
I always believe that you play your own game and ignore the opposition, the other aspect that Derry were missing was a defined gameplan and method of playing , this was lacking under prev manager. any team has to be 'right' coming into a game , Derry have been guilty in the past two meetings of that. A third time would be inexcusable.
Dont know why monaghan lads are annoyed that a large portion of their side are thought to be 'dirty'. Meath used to love that mantra and I'd much rather a hard rough side than a team of prima donas any day.
I'm quite happy and inspired to see our pint sized warriors stand up tall to physically stronger opponents :) That's just basic survival, has to be taken for granted.
I'm bemused to read comments about the winning edge attributed to skullduggery and dark arts with not much on the blindingly obvious, the good football played by some very good players to score the points.
Will the Celtic Pk renovations be completed on target for this game?
Certainly will by the looks of it. Was past the other day and there's an impressive covered stand now on the road end.
Should be a cracker after the weekend's defeats, will definitely try to get to it.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on April 28, 2009, 03:39:32 PM
I don't know how Monaghan minors are the year but it would seem Derry Minors have been performing poorly to date in the league.
Monaghan will win I'd say. They were the only team not lose to Armagh in the league, while Derry shipped a couple of heavy defeats in the same competition.
Wouldn't know the most about the minors but our VEC team did win the All-Ireland so that's a good start! I think there's alot of those players on the team, as there was last year after they got to the AI VEC final. Still a few boys from last year like McCarey, Boyle, the Dooney's etc. Ray McCarron's son Jack on it now and seems to be scoring well, and did in the VEC run by the sounds of it, so it'll be interesting to see if he lives up to the aul boy!
Quote from: Schkite on April 28, 2009, 08:07:33 PM
Ray McCarron's son Jack on it now and seems to be scoring well, and did in the VEC run by the sounds of it, so it'll be interesting to see if he lives up to the aul boy!
He has a big pair of boots to fill there! (for a small man!)
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2009, 06:03:15 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 28, 2009, 02:00:02 PM
maybe not so much in the qualifier game in clones, but certainly in the ulster championship meeting it played a large and significant part.
I always believe that you play your own game and ignore the opposition, the other aspect that Derry were missing was a defined gameplan and method of playing , this was lacking under prev manager. any team has to be 'right' coming into a game , Derry have been guilty in the past two meetings of that. A third time would be inexcusable.
Dont know why monaghan lads are annoyed that a large portion of their side are thought to be 'dirty'. Meath used to love that mantra and I'd much rather a hard rough side than a team of prima donas any day.
I'm quite happy and inspired to see our pint sized warriors stand up tall to physically stronger opponents :) That's just basic survival, has to be taken for granted.
I'm bemused to read comments about the winning edge attributed to skullduggery and dark arts with not much on the blindingly obvious, the good football played by some very good players to score the points.
Will the Celtic Pk renovations be completed on target for this game?
some good football played alright, but its part and parcel of the game to put off good players by alternative means - hitting the 'softer' ones and putting them off wanting to get involved in the game through fear, getting the argumentative reactionary ones fighting and therefore not playing football
no I wouldnt agree that the game of football is as easily classified as the team playing better football won, plenty of times I'd have agreed that the team I played on or supported won games they should have lost - and it wasnt down to the playing of good football.
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on April 29, 2009, 08:38:04 AM
Quote from: Schkite on April 28, 2009, 08:07:33 PM
Ray McCarron's son Jack on it now and seems to be scoring well, and did in the VEC run by the sounds of it, so it'll be interesting to see if he lives up to the aul boy!
He has a big pair of boots to fill there! (for a small man!)
I've come across a few talented youngsters who tend to take after one of their uncles rather than their father.
Case in point with Paul Finlay, he looks to have cloned the style of his uncle.
Quote from: Main Street on April 29, 2009, 05:18:14 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on April 29, 2009, 08:38:04 AM
Quote from: Schkite on April 28, 2009, 08:07:33 PM
Ray McCarron's son Jack on it now and seems to be scoring well, and did in the VEC run by the sounds of it, so it'll be interesting to see if he lives up to the aul boy!
He has a big pair of boots to fill there! (for a small man!)
I've come across a few talented youngsters who tend to take after one of their uncles rather than their father.
Case in point with Paul Finlay, he looks to have cloned the style of his uncle.
dunno
young woods makes nudie look like a saint ! :D
I like the shirt slogan this year, FKM ;D
(http://www.monaghan.gaa.ie/sponsors/images/43152.gif)
Quote from: Main Street on April 29, 2009, 05:18:14 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on April 29, 2009, 08:38:04 AM
Quote from: Schkite on April 28, 2009, 08:07:33 PM
Ray McCarron's son Jack on it now and seems to be scoring well, and did in the VEC run by the sounds of it, so it'll be interesting to see if he lives up to the aul boy!
He has a big pair of boots to fill there! (for a small man!)
I've come across a few talented youngsters who tend to take after one of their uncles rather than their father.
Case in point with Paul Finlay, he looks to have cloned the style of his uncle.
Jim & Oisin McConville got the football from their uncle Gene Morgan.
On Jack McCarron, Hugo Clerkin is his uncle, Dick & Ben are his cousins, but he's the total image of his father on the field, in no way Clerkin-like, except he solos as much as Dick does ;D
I see the PP book has opened for the game.
Has Derry at luke warm odds on
Derry 8/13 Monaghan 13/8 draw 15/2
I would have expected that Derry be much warmer favs considering they are comfortably a top Div 1 team playing at home and Monaghan have just come in there by the side door.
Quote from: Main Street on April 30, 2009, 01:51:49 PM
I see the PP book has opened for the game.
Has Derry at luke warm odds on
Derry 8/13 Monaghan 13/8 draw 15/2
I would have expected that Derry be much warmer favs considering they are comfortably a top Div 1 team playing at home and Monaghan have just come in there by the side door.
Monaghan have beaten derry the past 2 meetings...how would anyone in their right minds suggest that Derryt could be favourites for this game with those stats. Monaghan are now a division 1 team also.
Max, are you insinuating that I (and Paddy Power) are not in their right minds?
No wonder you Derry lads have a bit of trouble getting that mental balance right :)
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on April 30, 2009, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 30, 2009, 01:51:49 PM
I see the PP book has opened for the game.
Has Derry at luke warm odds on
Derry 8/13 Monaghan 13/8 draw 15/2
I would have expected that Derry be much warmer favs considering they are comfortably a top Div 1 team playing at home and Monaghan have just come in there by the side door.
Monaghan have beaten derry the past 2 meetings...how would anyone in their right minds suggest that Derryt could be favourites for this game with those stats. Monaghan are now a division 1 team also.
And there is absolutely no way that Monagahan will play the way they did against Cork on the next day out. As far as I could see they weren't even trying half the time.
Quote from: Main Street on April 30, 2009, 02:04:13 PM
Max, are you insinuating that I (and Paddy Power) are not in their right minds?
No wonder you Derry lads have a bit of trouble getting that mental balance right :)
to use a similar analogy...Tyrone have beaten Kerry in their past 4 c'ship meetings......now if Tyrone were to meet Kerry in the c'ship, who would be favourite....my guess it would be the one who has not got beaten by the other team. Its a plain as the nose on your face
Would you offer 6/4 against Derry winning, considering Monaghan's recent championship record against Derry and their new Div 1 status?
Quote from: thebuzz on April 30, 2009, 02:07:35 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on April 30, 2009, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 30, 2009, 01:51:49 PM
I see the PP book has opened for the game.
Has Derry at luke warm odds on
Derry 8/13 Monaghan 13/8 draw 15/2
I would have expected that Derry be much warmer favs considering they are comfortably a top Div 1 team playing at home and Monaghan have just come in there by the side door.
Monaghan have beaten derry the past 2 meetings...how would anyone in their right minds suggest that Derryt could be favourites for this game with those stats. Monaghan are now a division 1 team also.
And there is absolutely no way that Monagahan will play the way they did against Cork on the next day out. As far as I could see they weren't even trying half the time.
Monaghan were outplayed by a Cork team trying harder and playing better, just like when they were beaten by Kildare.
Sometimes you just have to see games for what they are without looking for hidden meanings.
Will the 'home' aspect be much of an advantage to Derry? What's the new capacity of Celtic Park - is it likely to be all ticket? Unless the number of Monaghan fans is restricted (by capacity), them Monaghan will probably at least match Derry's support.
I think it is 22,000 - not sure what the score will be with the new stand. It definitely will be ticket only.
Celtic Park will hold massive advantage for Derry.
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 01, 2009, 09:22:34 AM
I think it is 22,000 - not sure what the score will be with the new stand. It definitely will be ticket only.
Celtic Park will hold massive advantage for Derry.
If it's 22,000 it wouldn't need to be ticket only. Brewster Park wasn't close to full last year for our first round and Monaghan/Fermanagh would probably be a bigger crowd.
Why will Celtic Park hold a massive advantage?
Playing at home usually offers an advantage so I can't see why this would be different for this game.
I agree that it holds advantages for the team but reckon it depends..
We played Down in '07 in a newly opened Park Esler. It's a fantastic setup and all of the crowd are very close to the action making the atmosphere close to electric. Because there was such a large 'vocal' Monaghan support there I reckon it was as advantageous for us as it was for Down. So it canceled out or offset the home advantage to a certain degree if you like..
On the other hand take St Tiernach's Park Clones, I don't feel that Monaghan get the same home advantage benefit from Clones as say Fermanagh do in Brewster or Derry in Celtic Park or Donegal in MacCumhaill park etc. etc. This is fairly obvious in that Tyrone and Armagh have played a lot more 'white hot championship' games there in the past 10 years than Monaghan have, therefore giving them as much if not more advantage by playing in Clones than any of their Ulster opponents.
Alot of it is psychological I reckon. If it's talked about that 'X' is a cauldron etc. etc. then it can have an effect on the away players. A large traveling support is key to offset the advantage of the usually large home support!
Fortunately Monaghan have that large traveling support, for a small county, and I reckon it can play a big part in the overall outcome (here's hoping anyways!)
Exactly right.
I didn't feel we had a harder job last year against Fermanagh (despite the way it went) or Donegal because we were away from home. Monaghan will bring big support and could well outnumber Derry in Celtic Park. It may be some advantage to Derry, but not a massive advantage.
(And before anyone accuses me of being cocky, i'm not talking about actually playing Derry - i expect that to be a very tough encounter - i just don't think their home advantage will be as significant a factor as some people think.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 01, 2009, 01:18:46 PM
Exactly right.
I didn't feel we had a harder job last year against Fermanagh (despite the way it went) or Donegal because we were away from home. Monaghan will bring big support and could well outnumber Derry in Celtic Park. It may be some advantage to Derry, but not a massive advantage.
(And before anyone accuses me of being cocky, i'm not talking about actually playing Derry - i expect that to be a very tough encounter - i just don't think their home advantage will be as significant a factor as some people think.
Agree Maguire01 but it should be noted that having a good record (which Derry have in Celtic Park) at a particular venue can be advantageous, if used right by the management. If it leads to complacency then it's VERY BAD!!
As I said, it depends. ???
Derry have a good record in celtic park - rarely beaten over the years.
Odds are getting stacked higher and higher against Monaghan.
Celtic park virtually guarantees us a 10 point victory
Derry at Celtic Park have a formidable record so don't know why some people don't think it's a big advantage for them.
Quote from: Main Street on May 01, 2009, 02:39:15 PM
Odds are getting stacked higher and higher against Monaghan.
...and we all know that Derry crumble any time they are hot favourites, so monaghan will surely win !
;)
Everything points towards a Derry win...
I hear that the Derry county board are employing those stewards from Casement Park - any monaghan supporter who cheers louder than his Derry opposite number will be ejected from the ground and and thrown to the local residents who will eat then alive in the bogside. That should give us massive advantage ;)
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 01, 2009, 05:05:57 PM
I hear that the Derry county board are employing those stewards from Casement Park - any monaghan supporter who cheers louder than his Derry opposite number will be ejected from the ground and and thrown to the local residents who will eat then alive in the bogside. That should give us massive advantage ;)
sure we all know that the monaghan support are more 'vociferous' (some say rough ;))
plus am hearing that 'the bogmen' are reforming to lead the monaghan chants in Celtic park that day !
Monaghan are home and dry :D
Well if we have a similar story to the last time we played Championship footnball in Celtic Park, I'll be happy enough!
That's a bit confusing there with the two Oakleafers!
I am 1993 - the other 93 only joined 2 months ago ???
The Farney Army pack a decent size punch, considering how small the county is and how relatively weak the GAA scene is there to the bigger counties..
Where did Max get to? I was hoping to get a decent size bet in?
Cant see anything other than a Derry win. Do you honestly think Cassidy will let this one slide? Me no thinky
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 01, 2009, 08:21:10 PM
I am 1993 - the other 93 only joined 2 months ago ???
i know what your saying Oakleafer1993! i say 93 should get the chop....
Got a run around Celtic Park today
Looks very impressive, i'm told the capacity for this game shall be around 18000
It looks similar to Omagh and Newry
However the changing rooms do need replaced.
Only disappointment is that the 'dug outs' shall now be in the stand as in Omagh and so there shall be no opportunity for the plebs to give bad maners to the opposition managers.
When Mayo played there in the qualifiers a few years ago John O'M got serious stick about being a'blue shirt'
No chance Derry will lose a bar brawl in Celtic Park, Derry to have 3 or 4 to spare.
I think this game will be one of the most interesting games this year - and certainly at the start of the season at least ...
I think Derry are physically too strong for Monaghan - if you look at Monaghan last year against Kerry and again against Cork they've poor physcial strength and size in defence where Derry against Kerry - in particular the Bradleys seem to be very strong and can win their own ball. I watched the bit where Paddy Bradley got injured and it was funny that Eoin looked far stronger than Paddy this year. I think Eoin is looking very dangerous and if he keeps going at the rate he's going he'll challenge for an All Star this year.
Midfield both teams will struggle. Monaghan have two players too similar and Derry have only one very good one Doherty - with two halves in Diver and Muldoon. I think on paper Derry should shade it - but if either dominate like Monaghan did last year then they'll swing it.
Also - This was interesting article from last week
https://www.tribune.ie/sport/gaelic-football/article/2009/apr/26/an-end-to-quibbling-rivalries/
An end to quibbling rivalries
Kieran Shannon talks to Derry's Eoin Bradley about how Damien Cassidy has helped him live up to his older brother
Blast to Kingdom come: Eoin Bradley will look to take his excellent form into the league final against Kerry today
As a rule Damien Cassidy is slow to laud his players in public when a word of caution can do but after his team blew Dublin off Parnell Park six weeks ago the Derry manager made an exception. "Listen," Cassidy told reporters, "you boys just don't know how good Eoin Bradley is. This guy's a class footballer. He's got the entire package. He was leading the Kerry full-back line a merry dance last week until he got yellow-carded. The guy has the full repertoire of skills."
Like all things Cassidy, there was a reason he was so effusive in his praise. For one Bradley's performance had been exceptional. In the space of a minute he pointed two sideline balls from 50 yards. How many other players in Ireland could have scored even one of those in training, let alone two in a match?
The lad also needed to hear how good he was. For too long he had been dismissed as some infuriatingly wayward, brainless player. When Cassidy saw Bradley he saw the ultimate confidence player and if that player understood that his manager believed in him, that ultimate confidence player could evolve into the ultimate forward.
It is, as Cassidy keeps telling us, still only the league, and Bradley has had good leagues before. In his first campaign in 2006 only Michael Meehan scored more from play in Division One yet when Derry were dumped out of the Ulster championship by Donegal that summer Bradley had been held scoreless. The following spring he was off the panel and even after he and Paddy Crozier came to an uneasy truce that allowed for his return for the 2007 All Ireland quarter-final against Dublin, Joe Brolly would attribute much of Derry's defeat that day to Bradley's introduction and errant shot selection. This past year though there are real signs that at 25, Bradley is blooming into a standout forward. Last summer he was Derry's most consistent performer, scoring a goal and a point in all three of their championship games. This spring he's been their best forward and best ball-winner, with his performance against Dublin rivalling Stephen O'Neill's as the best individual display of this year's league. Now he's the Bradley wearing number 14, with the brother having to fight for a spot in the corner. Growing up there seemed little chance that would ever happen. Up until he was 14 Eoin played all his football in goals, as if his raison d'être was to pick the ball out of the net for Paddy to blast past him again. Even after an experiment in the forwards with the Glenullin under-16s went spectacularly well, he seemed destined for a career on the margins. His McRory Cup days ended when he left St Pat's Maghera in fifth year to work as a plasterer for his uncle. "I was never a man for the books," he smiles diffidently. "That would be Patrick". In his first month with the Derry seniors he broke his leg in the McKenna Cup, keeping him out for the rest of 2004. Then in 2007 he was kicked off the panel.
"Me and Paddy [Crozier] never got on wild well. He'd say black and I'd say white. It wasn't over training or anything like that. I was always fine to train. We just didn't get on."
He will accept that at times his attitude left something to be desired. When Derry ambushed Tyrone in 2006, some of the team were still celebrating into the early hours of the following Tuesday morning and Bradley would have been at the heart rather than the fringes of the party. "We totally overdid it, me as much as anyone. There's no point in saying I didn't because I did."
He'll also appreciate that it was Crozier that introduced him to a couple of people that transformed his game. Last year Crozier enlisted the services of Armagh's physical trainer John McCloskey who in turn brought in a 30-year-old performance consultant from Monaghan called Fergus Connolly. Last autumn Connolly was snapped up by the Welsh Rugby Union as their sports science director and the Bradleys will testify as to why.
When Connolly and the Bradleys sat down at the start of last year about what they were trying to achieve, they agreed it was about one word: unmarkable. Connolly's job was to help make them unmarkable.
With Paddy that meant making him more explosive off the mark and making him stronger. With Eoin he could only make him marginally quicker than he already was but Connolly could make him a whole lot stronger. That didn't mean putting on biceps like Kieran McGeeney's but being stronger with the weight they were, an approach Connolly would use again with Bernard Dunne. For Eoin that meant cutting out the crisps and the bread and doing a pile of weights. The result was that last year the pair of them were rarely beaten to a ball and never brushed off a ball. One on one, as Fermanagh's Peter Sherry learned when conceding the goal of the Ulster championship, Eoin Bradley and his brother were virtually unmarkable.
The problem for Derry throughout the Crozier era was that the pair of them could be snuffed out by the kind of mass defences that Fermanagh, Monaghan and Tyrone would employ. This year Cassidy has impressed upon them that when they do get on the ball they're to make quick, smart decisions before they're not only closed down but the chance goes missing for everyone else. The result has been a more rounded, effective Eoin Bradley if a less spectacular one.
"A couple of years ago I'd try to do things on my own. Wild shots and that. This year I'm bringing other players into it far better. Damien had a word with me. We beat Westmeath well and I kicked something like five points but Damien got the DVD out and slowed down this piece when I shot from an impossible angle. He says, 'Eoin, there are times we have to come back.' It was in front of the whole group, aye, but it wasn't as if he was slagging me off. It was very factual the way he said it and I got the message."
A number of things strike you listening to Bradley: there's his refreshing openness, "To be honest, at half-time against Fermanagh [last year] I was already looking forward to playing in my first Ulster final"; the way he refers to his famous older brother as Patrick rather than Paddy, "My mother would kill me if I didn't"; but above all there's his respect for his new manager.
In the course of an hour-long interview he uses the phrase "Damien says" a dozen times. Damien tells them they've won nothing as just the Paddy Bradley Show. The league's not about winning but performance. If the forwards get the ball they're to turn and take their men on. And this is a mission they're on.
"There's a real belief this year that we're going to do something big. Damien has instilled that in us. We're properly trained, well drilled; everyone knows what they're doing and what's expected. Last year Fergus gave everyone programmes to do but if everyone is truthful, not everybody did it. Boys would have liked Paddy [Crozier] but Damien seems to have that bit more clout with the board and the players."
Cassidy has cultivated that respect by reciprocating it. He gave Bradley the McKenna Cup off. He gave him the captain's armband for the Donegal game. A few years ago people would have laughed at the idea but Cassidy felt that the father of three-year-old Cathayr would thrive on such responsibility.
There is one thing Cassidy and Bradley disagree on. Bradley's last game against Kerry was cut short with a yellow card for an innocuous if careless foul on Tom O'Sullivan that triggered even Paul Galvin to remark "God, that was harsh, ref", yet he's disappointed that today will be the last game under the experimental rules.
"I think they sped games up. Throwing out these rules will suit Monaghan, to be honest with you," he smiles. "Them boys like their hitting, pulling and dragging, speaking from past experience anyway. Look, fair play to Monaghan. They work hard, they're in your face and we've got to match that this year otherwise they'll beat us again. That's Ulster. If we were in any other province we'd be walking into Croke Park but in Ulster you could be gone in the first round."
Before Monaghan in four weeks' time, there's Kerry but early last week all the talk in Derry was of Conor McCusker who died last weekend. Eoin met him a few times in recent months. After the Tyrone game in Omagh, he and his cousin Gerard O'Kane had gone out in Cookstown with Conor and Niall McCusker and met up with Owen Mulligan. "Conor seemed a good fella," says Eoin shaking his head. "Poor Niall's devastated. You could tell the pair of them were very close."
Paddy and himself would be tight too. "There are times when we fall out. He would think I should have passed the ball to him and times I'll go, 'For feck's sake, Patrick! Why didn't you pass it?!' But a minute later, we'd be fine. He can be hard to play with because everyone is trying to hit him first but sure if I was playing out the field I'd be looking for him as well. But in all, he's been great for giving me advice and I still look up to him. You like to play with the best forwards and Patrick is one of the best forwards in Ireland."
And deep down you sense Cassidy and Patrick's kid brother know he's not far from being one of them himself.
kshannon@tribune.ie
April 26, 200
(http://media.tribune.ie/site_media/photologue/photos/2009/Apr/25/cache/Eoin_Bradley_1009549_display.jpg)
Another ...
http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/GL/free/334224768946288.php
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 10:16:37 AM
I think Derry are physically too strong for Monaghan
Have they become physically much stronger since 2007 and 2008, or have Monaghan become physically weaker?
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 02, 2009, 01:21:59 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 10:16:37 AM
I think Derry are physically too strong for Monaghan
Have they become physically much stronger since 2007 and 2008, or have Monaghan become physically weaker?
Sure it's the "pulling and dragging" that beat them those times, poor Eoin's had enough of it!
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 02, 2009, 01:21:59 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 10:16:37 AM
I think Derry are physically too strong for Monaghan
Have they become physically much stronger since 2007 and 2008, or have Monaghan become physically weaker?
VERY good question - Monaghan seem to have opted for smaller lighter men to run and cover ground more and I think many of them are not as physically intimidating as the Derry team.
I remember Monaghan getting an absolute plastering against Armagh and losing out badly in the physical stakes - but then again Armagh were an exceptional team then.
It's probably a combination of the two.
What are your thoughts?
Quote from: Schkite on May 02, 2009, 01:32:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 02, 2009, 01:21:59 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 10:16:37 AM
I think Derry are physically too strong for Monaghan
Have they become physically much stronger since 2007 and 2008, or have Monaghan become physically weaker?
Sure it's the "pulling and dragging" that beat them those times, poor Eoin's had enough of it!
He's a good man for a goal
One against Monaghan, Fermanagh and Donegal in championship ... not a bad return
Eoin's a good man for a goal alright, it'll be interesting to see who's on him, I'd imagine Dessie will have Paddy again.
You mention Monaghan getting an absolute plastering against Armagh, what game was that? 2004? If so then it's completely different to now.
Quote from: Schkite on May 02, 2009, 02:00:42 PM
Eoin's a good man for a goal alright, it'll be interesting to see who's on him, I'd imagine Dessie will have Paddy again.
You mention Monaghan getting an absolute plastering against Armagh, what game was that? 2004? If so then it's completely different to now.
I don't think Dessie started on him last year as he was on the 40 .... ::)
But after watching Dessie last week I think Monaghan have a problem there as even though the new rules are gone I think ref's are starting to look at the things Dessie Moen does off the ball more.
(Yeh, it's completely different now, Monaghan were like boys against men, McGrane and McGeeney etc.) But it's funny Monaghan have not changed that much I think.
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 10:16:37 AM
He'll also appreciate that it was Crozier that introduced him to a couple of people that transformed his game. Last year Crozier enlisted the services of Armagh's physical trainer John McCloskey who in turn brought in a 30-year-old performance consultant from Monaghan called Fergus Connolly. Last autumn Connolly was snapped up by the Welsh Rugby Union as their sports science director and the Bradleys will testify as to why.
When Connolly and the Bradleys sat down at the start of last year about what they were trying to achieve, they agreed it was about one word: unmarkable. Connolly's job was to help make them unmarkable.
With Paddy that meant making him more explosive off the mark and making him stronger. With Eoin he could only make him marginally quicker than he already was but Connolly could make him a whole lot stronger. That didn't mean putting on biceps like Kieran McGeeney's but being stronger with the weight they were, an approach Connolly would use again with Bernard Dunne. For Eoin that meant cutting out the crisps and the bread and doing a pile of weights. The result was that last year the pair of them were rarely beaten to a ball and never brushed off a ball. One on one, as Fermanagh's Peter Sherry learned when conceding the goal of the Ulster championship, Eoin Bradley and his brother were virtually unmarkable.
This was the bit I thought was most interesting.
And a Monaghan man too!
A bit ironic
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 01:36:31 PM
Monaghan seem to have opted for smaller lighter men to run and cover ground more and I think many of them are not as physically intimidating as the Derry team.
"Opted" assumes there is a choice.
"to run and cover ground more"
How about the wee lads can also play a bit and are the best footballers on offer.
"I think many of them are not as physically intimidating as the Derry team".
At last. the penny has dropped :)
But according to some (uninformed :)) opinion, it is the dark arts of the Monaghan lads which level that playing field.
Does the old Derry adage ever run out of fuel, the one that goes 'we are a good football team, if only the others would let us play'.
Well it's a contrast in styles.
Opted - yes - you can either spend time in the gym getting bigger and stronger or more time on the field running - Monaghan have opted to run.
Not that I think either is wrong (in fact I think it's more about the balance between the two) but that's the Banty's choice
Well I'm not sure what the dark arts bit is - but it's obvious that Dessie Moen is no angel and he would be classed as somewhat dirty etc. But I don't think you could class Monaghan as dirty (though McQuaid's outburst didn't help that cause). Nor Derry either for that matter.
I think Derry will do well this year if they have the bit of steel that Crozier was missing and Cassidy probably has - though time will tell.
Logan, how have Monaghan not changed since 2004? Take a look at that team and tell me. There may be maybe half the players still there but all have improved considerably and most bulked up alot too. Monaghan were at the very bottom rung of the ladder that year, of course it was boys against men, did you think it would be a tight contest?
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 02:37:07 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 02, 2009, 02:00:42 PM
Eoin's a good man for a goal alright, it'll be interesting to see who's on him, I'd imagine Dessie will have Paddy again.
You mention Monaghan getting an absolute plastering against Armagh, what game was that? 2004? If so then it's completely different to now.
I don't think Dessie started on him last year as he was on the 40 .... ::)
Did I say he started on him, no I said he was on him and he was after a bit! And he had him the year before anyway as you know.
Quote from: Schkite on May 02, 2009, 03:11:43 PM
Logan, how have Monaghan not changed since 2004? Take a look at that team and tell me. There may be maybe half the players still there but all have improved considerably and most bulked up alot too. Monaghan were at the very bottom rung of the ladder that year, of course it was boys against men, did you think it would be a tight contest?
Monaghan have improved, I'm not saying that.
The players are the same, yes, but sure they have changed and they have improved - But the
style is more or less the same
But while some may have improved - no they haven't 'bulked up alot too'
Quote from: Schkite on May 02, 2009, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 02:37:07 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 02, 2009, 02:00:42 PM
Eoin's a good man for a goal alright, it'll be interesting to see who's on him, I'd imagine Dessie will have Paddy again.
You mention Monaghan getting an absolute plastering against Armagh, what game was that? 2004? If so then it's completely different to now.
I don't think Dessie started on him last year as he was on the 40 .... ::)
Christ relax man - you not get a rub last night?
;D
Did I say he started on him, no I said he was on him and he was after a bit! And he had him the year before anyway as you know.
Just trying to convince myself I was right Logan, and you have to go confusing me telling me where Bradley was lined out! ;)
Anyway, on the bulking up thing, I suppose it's a matter of opinion. The weights have been hit more than they were under Coyle. Banty, and then McElkennon have changed things a good bit. If you looked at some of the players then and now you'd see a good difference I'm sure. Sure I suppose it doesn't matter much if they bulked a bit anyway, they're still a crowd of midgets!
I agree Monaghan look to be playing better football than under Coyle - or in fact in a long time. It's not even a case of looking - they are.
But without trying to insult any Monaghan people here I think (some) Monaghan people got a wee bit carried away with the Div 2 win a few years ago - Monaghan now are are not as good as the 70's and 80's team that was very physical and unlike Kerry, Cork and others who have played in Div 1 much more (Derry incuded), they have a bit more to improve before they challenge properly for All Irelands. The trophy lifted in Croker a few years ago is not the same one youse won in the mid 80's with a great team.
Of course the Div1 doesn't garauntee anything - look at Derry, but I do think the level of football is higher and would suit Monaghan alot better in the championship.
And the is the funny thing - I think Monaghan are height wise not too much smaller than the Derry boys overall - I still think they look weaker.
Would you not agree with those points???
I think Monaghan need to change their style a little - which was my original point and maybe work on the physical aspect a little more.
Anyway ... they're a good team to watch with some very good players who deserve a good run in Div 1.
By the way Schkite - do you know that Fergus Connolly guy from Monaghan or what exactly he did with the Bradleys?
Where is he from? Is he in Wales all the time?
Oh I agree about the league a few years ago. But you have to remember the state Monaghan football was in before that league campaign, that's why there was such a big deal made of it. And the pitch invasion was down to the dramatic finale more than anything else, it looked like it was gone but we were gifted it back! It was a big achievement considering how we performed the previous year. The same thing wouldn't happen now, there's bigger goals for the team now.
Fergus Connolly's from Scotstown, don't know a whole lot about him myself to be honest. Think he trained the Derry footballers for a bit, but don't know if that was a long-term thing or just a few sessions. He's the Welsh RFU's sport science co-ordinator at the minute so I'd say that would take up most of his time alright.
Logan
QuoteMidfield both teams will struggle. Monaghan have two players too similar and Derry have only one very good one Doherty - with two halves in Diver and Muldoon. I think on paper Derry should shade it - but if either dominate like Monaghan did last year then they'll swing it.
Are you for real? Derry have arguably one of the best midfield set-ups in the country with Fergal Doc and either Muldoon or Patsy Bradley able to play nu,mber 9. Throughout the entire league campaign Derrys midfield dominated, and Fergal only played 3 games!
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 02, 2009, 06:36:24 PM
Logan
QuoteMidfield both teams will struggle. Monaghan have two players too similar and Derry have only one very good one Doherty - with two halves in Diver and Muldoon. I think on paper Derry should shade it - but if either dominate like Monaghan did last year then they'll swing it.
Are you for real? Derry have arguably one of the best midfield set-ups in the country with Fergal Doc and either Muldoon or Patsy Bradley able to play nu,mber 9. Throughout the entire league campaign Derrys midfield dominated, and Fergal only played 3 games!
Come on - I'm being fair
Yes ... all of what you said is true - except that -
1. Fergal Doherty (a great player) has only played 3 games and is not at full fitness yet - should be close by the Monaghan game
2. Patsy is injured in case you didn't know - very good player but has been known to blow hot and cold
3. Joe Diver is a great player but not consistent over the full 70
4. Enda Muldoon is a fantastic player - one of the greats - but he also is not able for a full game
All of which means that Monaghan have their best chance ever to break even in midfield (which they did last year).
Quote from: Schkite on May 02, 2009, 04:39:11 PM
Oh I agree about the league a few years ago. But you have to remember the state Monaghan football was in before that league campaign, that's why there was such a big deal made of it. And the pitch invasion was down to the dramatic finale more than anything else, it looked like it was gone but we were gifted it back! It was a big achievement considering how we performed the previous year. The same thing wouldn't happen now, there's bigger goals for the team now.
Fergus Connolly's from Scotstown, don't know a whole lot about him myself to be honest. Think he trained the Derry footballers for a bit, but don't know if that was a long-term thing or just a few sessions. He's the Welsh RFU's sport science co-ordinator at the minute so I'd say that would take up most of his time alright.
Well according to that article the Bradleys seem to think enough of him - surprised he wasn't with Monaghan.
Did he train Scotstown also? They've been off the radar for a while.
fair enough point about the midfield there logan,thon oakleaf93 blade doesnt have a clue. just a quick question. have you left the house the day?ye havent been off this thing!
Quote from: Overthebar! on May 02, 2009, 09:54:28 PM
fair enough point about the midfield there logan,thon oakleaf93 blade doesnt have a clue. just a quick question. have you left the house the day?ye havent been off this thing!
Haha ... watched the rugby - feck all else on!
Just reading mostly - trying to learn a bit more about strength for football too so that's why I was so interested in the article about the Bradleys and Fergus Connolly
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 09:57:04 PM
Haha ... watched the rugby - feck all else on!
Just reading mostly - trying to learn a bit more about strength for football too so that's why I was so interested in the article about the Bradleys and Fergus Connolly
anyone i have spoke to seems to speak highly of him, you seen this?
http://www.hoganstand.com/Forum/MessagePage.aspx?TopicID=13622
he doesnt seem to be in the media spotlight much else mind
Thanks for that sur - that's a pretty impressive list of people to have trained.
It's rare to find someone not looking for the media spotlight too or not wanting to talk about themselves.
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 04:02:37 PM
But without trying to insult any Monaghan people here I think (some) Monaghan people got a wee bit carried away with the Div 2 win a few years ago
I don't think anyone in Monaghan is talking about the Division 2 final any more. Since then we've played one season in Division 1, reached and Ulster Final, reached the AI Quarter Finals and Round 3 (on both occasions going out narrowly to Kerry), beaten Down and Derry (twice) in the Championship for the first time in many years, beaten Donegal twice in the Championship, beaten the likes of Armagh, Dublin and Cork in the league, and now were back in Division 1.
As has been said, 2005 was exceptional because of what had gone before, but a lot more water has gone under the bridge since then.
Doire will take it with 4-5 points to spare, and going by the turn outs at championship matches in the past in CP and the fact Derry matched if not beat Donegals support in the first round of the champiohsip last year, i expect a good turn out from the Derry gaels ::)
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 02:37:07 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 02, 2009, 02:00:42 PM
Eoin's a good man for a goal alright, it'll be interesting to see who's on him, I'd imagine Dessie will have Paddy again.
You mention Monaghan getting an absolute plastering against Armagh, what game was that? 2004? If so then it's completely different to now.
I don't think Dessie started on him last year as he was on the 40 .... ::)
But after watching Dessie last week I think Monaghan have a problem there as even though the new rules are gone I think ref's are starting to look at the things Dessie Moen does off the ball more. :o :o
(Yeh, it's completely different now, Monaghan were like boys against men, McGrane and McGeeney etc.) But it's funny Monaghan have not changed that much I think.
About time, his main problem is he attemps to play UFC on a GAA pitch.
Quote from: billy the kid on May 03, 2009, 06:05:58 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 02:37:07 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 02, 2009, 02:00:42 PM
Eoin's a good man for a goal alright, it'll be interesting to see who's on him, I'd imagine Dessie will have Paddy again.
You mention Monaghan getting an absolute plastering against Armagh, what game was that? 2004? If so then it's completely different to now.
I don't think Dessie started on him last year as he was on the 40 .... ::)
But after watching Dessie last week I think Monaghan have a problem there as even though the new rules are gone I think ref's are starting to look at the things Dessie Moen does off the ball more. :o :o
(Yeh, it's completely different now, Monaghan were like boys against men, McGrane and McGeeney etc.) But it's funny Monaghan have not changed that much I think.
About time, his main problem is he attemps to play UFC on a GAA pitch.
What? The Ulster Football Championship?
It must be hard for the Derry supporter to stomach the though of another encounter with the fierce hard men from Monaghan.
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/311279/5000/ (http://www.sportsfile.com/id/311279/5000/)
Keep it up Main Street, from the looks of this thread it the Monaghan boys doing all the talking, that photo won't be much use to youse if you end up empty handed this year.
???
You're peculiar dummies.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 04, 2009, 05:29:15 PM
Keep it up Main Street, from the looks of this thread it the Monaghan boys doing all the talking, that photo won't be much use to youse if you end up empty handed this year.
:D This is great craic! How are the Monaghan boys doing all the talking? All Main Street is showing is a typical picture which shows Monaghan aren't a big or burly team, especially up against Derry, something that some posters were suggesting earlier(yourself included). On the contrary, most of the talking is being done by the Derry ones. Sure you started the thread yourself, and seem to building up Derry a good bit, like saying they've one of the best midfields in the country when someone else suggested they could improve there. And nearly all the predictions are for a handy enough Derry win, mostly by Derry people too. (And sure why not, everything points to a Derry victory)
But yeah, it's the Monaghan boys doing all the talking! ::)
Anyway, really looking forward to the match now, only 3 weeks away!
See Monaghan beat the Dubs in Corduff earlier. But more importantly, JP took off injured and it doesn't look the best. :-\
Quote from: Schkite on May 04, 2009, 06:53:31 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 04, 2009, 05:29:15 PM
Keep it up Main Street, from the looks of this thread it the Monaghan boys doing all the talking, that photo won't be much use to youse if you end up empty handed this year.
:D This is great craic! How are the Monaghan boys doing all the talking? All Main Street is showing is a typical picture which shows Monaghan aren't a big or burly team, especially up against Derry, something that some posters were suggesting earlier(yourself included). On the contrary, most of the talking is being done by the Derry ones. Sure you started the thread yourself, and seem to building up Derry a good bit, like saying they've one of the best midfields in the country when someone else suggested they could improve there. And nearly all the predictions are for a handy enough Derry win, mostly by Derry people too. (And sure why not, everything points to a Derry victory)
But yeah, it's the Monaghan boys doing all the talking! ::)
Anyway, really looking forward to the match now, only 3 weeks away!
See Monaghan beat the Dubs in Corduff earlier. But more importantly, JP took off injured and it doesn't look the best. :-\
Nonsense. Nearly all the predictions are for a tight game. Sure go ahead and build a siege mentality from thin air.
Any Derry posters not taking Monaghan seriously need to shown a couple of videos.
On behalf of the Derry folk id like to apologise for oakleafer93 who has a lethal combination of being both self righteous and thick ;)
Right fair enough whiskeysteve, to say "nearly all" predictions was an exaggeration, but a select few stuck in the mind when I was looking through the thread there, saying there's "no chance Derry will let this slip", and Derry would have 4-5 to spare and that type of thing.
I suspect that Banty will look at all angles to lift the Monaghan team up to Derry Size.
(http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/73000255/images/2/foammain.jpg)
Quote from: Captain Black on May 04, 2009, 08:58:30 PM
On behalf of the Derry folk id like to apologise for oakleafer93 who has a lethal combination of being both self righteous and thick ;)
Shut up you idiot.
leave 93 alone ;D
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 04, 2009, 10:34:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Black on May 04, 2009, 08:58:30 PM
On behalf of the Derry folk id like to apologise for oakleafer93 who has a lethal combination of being both self righteous and thick ;)
Shut up you idiot.
jog on to the hoganstand would ye. you talk a brave amount of dung. hope lavey draw slaughtneil and get stuffed with mckaigue playing a blinder after having a know it all like you run him down
Quote from: Captain Black on May 05, 2009, 12:03:08 AM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 04, 2009, 10:34:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Black on May 04, 2009, 08:58:30 PM
On behalf of the Derry folk id like to apologise for oakleafer93 who has a lethal combination of being both self righteous and thick ;)
Shut up you idiot.
jog on to the hoganstand would ye. you talk a brave amount of dung. hope lavey draw slaughtneil and get stuffed with mckaigue playing a blinder after having a know it all like you run him down
Here I have nothing against Mc Kaigue I do think he's a decent enough player but just that decent I don't think he's exceptional. Anyway, it appears you can't have an opinion on here without getting mauled for it.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 05, 2009, 12:18:47 AM
Quote from: Captain Black on May 05, 2009, 12:03:08 AM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 04, 2009, 10:34:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Black on May 04, 2009, 08:58:30 PM
On behalf of the Derry folk id like to apologise for oakleafer93 who has a lethal combination of being both self righteous and thick ;)
Shut up you idiot.
jog on to the hoganstand would ye. you talk a brave amount of dung. hope lavey draw slaughtneil and get stuffed with mckaigue playing a blinder after having a know it all like you run him down
Here I have nothing against Mc Kaigue I do think he's a decent enough player but just that decent I don't think he's exceptional. Anyway, it appears you can't have an opinion on here without getting mauled for it.
Oakleafer forget about Mr Captain...I'm perfect with a superior attitude...Black. His contribution to this Board is to question why anyone who should have an opinion on anything to do with the GAA. A pompous tool :D
I think Owen Lennon may have broken his nose against the dubs yesterday in Corduff. I thought that he was just replaced because he was poor but I read today that it was due to an injury. JP Mone also got some sort of a leg injury. He was carried off in the 2nd half and it didn't look too good. On the plus Hannratty looked quite dangerous and did score a good goal and won a penalty.
Quote from: Main Street on May 04, 2009, 09:51:41 PM
I suspect that Banty will look at all angles to lift the Monaghan team up to Derry Size.
'rough' players dont need to be skyscrapers of men to be effective - kieran mc keever, fergus caulfield, johnny mc gurk,nudie, moen, d freeman from monaghan and Derry alone spring to mind then you have the likes of Colm coyle, both canavans who also were not too big in height but bate the bejaysus outta much bigger lads...think some folks are thinking that big men are naturally the aggressors - when usually thats not the case...
derry may be taller, but monaghan have a lot of 'rough' players in their squad.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 05, 2009, 12:18:47 AM
Quote from: Captain Black on May 05, 2009, 12:03:08 AM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 04, 2009, 10:34:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Black on May 04, 2009, 08:58:30 PM
On behalf of the Derry folk id like to apologise for oakleafer93 who has a lethal combination of being both self righteous and thick ;)
Shut up you idiot.
jog on to the hoganstand would ye. you talk a brave amount of dung. hope lavey draw slaughtneil and get stuffed with mckaigue playing a blinder after having a know it all like you run him down
you are the same cuddy that is always on hoganstand that is for sure.
anyway get the house on derry -4 against monaghan. heard till it here first.
Here I have nothing against Mc Kaigue I do think he's a decent enough player but just that decent I don't think he's exceptional. Anyway, it appears you can't have an opinion on here without getting mauled for it.
cameltohil, I'm not on HoganStand I read it but don't post on it.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 05, 2009, 03:11:33 PM
cameltohil, I'm not on HoganStand I read it but don't post on it.
sure oakleaf93, and lavey will lift the john mclaughlin this year ;)
Infighting and discontent in the Derry camp.
Quote from: Main Street on May 06, 2009, 12:53:25 PM
Infighting and discontent in the Derry camp.
sure we havent a hope now !
Any word on JP and Lennon's injuries? Don't think Lennon's too bad but JP could be more serious. He'd be a big miss!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 06, 2009, 01:18:00 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 06, 2009, 12:53:25 PM
Infighting and discontent in the Derry camp.
sure we havent a hope now !
Max has already been spotted walking through the streets of Derry with a placard,
The End is Nigh
The Monaghan men are coming!
any word on lockhart?
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 06, 2009, 03:06:48 PM
any word on lockhart?
It's in todays Irish News... they reckon he'll b back doing full training the week before the monaghan game - don't hink he'll start though.
i would reckon he will start - unless he declares himself unfit.
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 06, 2009, 02:15:01 PM
Any word on JP and Lennon's injuries? Don't think Lennon's too bad but JP could be more serious. He'd be a big miss!
Lennon will be fine physically, but apparently he's in trouble 'mentally' from not having got enough match time and tough training.
JP will be a rush as far as I know.
Dessies form is a concern
Quote from: Overthebar! on May 02, 2009, 10:24:22 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 02, 2009, 09:57:04 PM
Haha ... watched the rugby - feck all else on!
Just reading mostly - trying to learn a bit more about strength for football too so that's why I was so interested in the article about the Bradleys and Fergus Connolly
anyone i have spoke to seems to speak highly of him, you seen this?
http://www.hoganstand.com/Forum/MessagePage.aspx?TopicID=13622
he doesnt seem to be in the media spotlight much else mind
Yeh it's very hard to find out much about him as he doesn't seem to do interviews and avoids the media like you said.
I remember I asked some of the Derry players last Christmas about him- they spoke very highly of him and said he was the best they'd met. They said he was an expert in every area - nutrition, strength and speed etc.
I've also heard some miracle stories too - like how I know he can fix hamstring injuries very fast - one guy last year coming up to an All Ireland semi final or final was supposed to be out for 6 weeks and he had him back playing better than ever in half the time, fixing dislocated shoulders without operations etc. I've also heard it said (though I don't know how true it is), that he advises a number of GAA coaches and some of the top players.
Looks like SML or JPM could do with someone like him now.
This is going to be a tight game!
We've a rash of injuries and niggles on both sides now!
Quote from: JMohan on May 06, 2009, 04:29:02 PM
This is going to be a tight game!
We've a rash of injuries and niggles on both sides now!
I'm not sure if that would necessarily make for a tight game as both would be a massive miss for Monaghan..
Lockhart is one of the finest man-marking defenders I have witnessed but reckon he's been struggling with form this past two seasons...
Why was Mark Lynch not playing for Bannagher in the SFC on Monday night? Is he injured or was it a *star* game thus not allowing him to play?
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 06, 2009, 04:58:44 PM
Why was Mark Lynch not playing for Bannagher in the SFC on Monday night? Is he injured or was it a *star* game thus not allowing him to play?
No such thing as Star games in Derry, club games are much to important to all concerned. wasnt aware he hadnt been playing but you can take it he was injured as there is no way any player in Derry, or anywhere im sure, would miss a club championship game otherwise.
Quote from: cameltohill on May 06, 2009, 11:22:40 AM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 05, 2009, 03:11:33 PM
cameltohil, I'm not on HoganStand I read it but don't post on it.
sure oakleaf93, and lavey will lift the john mclaughlin this year ;)
Honest to God I'm not I'd admit it if I was.
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 06, 2009, 04:53:56 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 06, 2009, 04:29:02 PM
This is going to be a tight game!
We've a rash of injuries and niggles on both sides now!
I'm not sure if that would necessarily make for a tight game as both would be a massive miss for Monaghan..
Exactly, there is no other way to read it.
Though Lennon did look a long way of his game physically against Cork, the last thing he needed was an injury to hamper training.
Hopefully as JMohan says, he is alright.
I'd be hopeful that Lennon will find his form again for the Derry game. He's a very important player for Monaghan. If it is a confidence thing, i don't think McElkennon making his views public is very helpful.
I dunno Maguire01, I read the article and thought that the 'meeja' took it out of contest slightly (for change). I thought McElkennon was just telling it how it is. The headline of the article is more dramatic than the contents.. I'll quote it for reference..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
McElkennon voices concern over Lennon form
06 May 2009
Monaghan coach Martin McElkennon has admitted he's been concerned by star midfielder Eoin Lennon's recent dip in form.
The Latton O'Rahillys clubman has been a focal figure for the Farney County in past seasons, which have saw Seamus McEnaney's charges reach an Ulster final and an All-Ireland quarter-final, as well as recently achieving promotion to the top tier of the NFL, after losing the Division Two decider to Cork last month.
However, McElkennon believes that much Lennon's loss of form comes down to the fact that he no longer training with the county squad week in, week out as a result of being based in Liverpool, where he is completing a teacher training course at John Moores' University.
"It's definitely been harder for Eoin this year," said McElkennon. "It wasn't too bad earlier in the season when he was able to train with the university team during the week, but their season ended a few months ago.
"He comes back on Friday and trains with us over the weekend. I also give him a programme to do when he's in Liverpool.
"It's the best we can do, but ideally you prefer your players to be at home, and while Eoin has worked very hard, his recent performances have probably suffered a bit," he added.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That sorta stuff gets pressed at this time of year in the vacuum between league and championship. I don't think there's much in it altogether and reckon it's better than a 'meeja-ban' ;) :o
Very poor form psychologically for McElkennon to be discussing Lennon's poor form in the papers at this stage.
Very funny comment is right! Hardly a great way to boost the fella's confidence?
Why would you say something like that at all unless you simply wanted to have something to say for the media? It's ironic too - because he's supposed to have been flying over to Liverpool to train him once a week. Banty loves the meeja too tho as we all know.
I guess it is better than the meeja ban Monaghan had from last year going into Fermanagh
Cassidy on the other hand has plenty of injury concerns with Pasty Bradley, Mark Lynch, Lockhart and probably one or two others but he's kept it more or less quiet.
Shaping up for a good one.
Stephen O'Neill and Dooher are on the way back too on the other side ...
I see Banty is ruling the roast again this year, taking games scheduled for this weekend forward to last night and leaving no more league matches before the Derry game. Star matches just till then. Club games midweek for players doing exams and tarvelling from round country to suit the manager of the county team. I'm all for preparation but most counties have played Championship games at this stage and tough, competitive club games are as good as preparation as you can get. Its good enough for most counties including Derry.
Was at Blayney V Clontibret last night and it was poor stuff. JP, McManus, McGuigan and M Corey among those missing for Clontibret but they still dominated with Anthony Rooney as good as anyone on pitch. Banty in crowd as well. Finished 0-6 a piece.
lads you should not read too much into what the papers say - remember who wrote the article yesterday in the Irish News? Damien Cassidy will playing the "old double think" game right up to the throw in.
I would bet that Lockhart will start or will play al good part in the game. Patsy Bradley would not be starting if Fergal Doc was playing - it will be Muldoon and Doc at mid field.Patsy and Doc are too similarin style of play. Mark Lynch is fine. As for stephen O Neill he has a reoccurrance of the same injury. Riding a mountain bike around gortin will not solve his knee problem.
Quote from: bingobus on May 07, 2009, 10:55:58 AM
I see Banty is ruling the roast again this year, taking games scheduled for this weekend forward to last night and leaving no more league matches before the Derry game. Star matches just till then. Club games midweek for players doing exams and tarvelling from round country to suit the manager of the county team. I'm all for preparation but most counties have played Championship games at this stage and tough, competitive club games are as good as preparation as you can get. Its good enough for most counties including Derry.
Was at Blayney V Clontibret last night and it was poor stuff. JP, McManus, McGuigan and M Corey among those missing for Clontibret but they still dominated with Anthony Rooney as good as anyone on pitch. Banty in crowd as well. Finished 0-6 a piece.
Did that Rooney guy walk off the Monaghan panel one year? Then again not hard to shine if there were no county men on show.
Dessie Moen playing?
The Monaghan County Board love Banty anyway by all accounts
Quote from: JMohan on May 07, 2009, 11:41:20 AM
Quote from: bingobus on May 07, 2009, 10:55:58 AM
I see Banty is ruling the roast again this year, taking games scheduled for this weekend forward to last night and leaving no more league matches before the Derry game. Star matches just till then. Club games midweek for players doing exams and tarvelling from round country to suit the manager of the county team. I'm all for preparation but most counties have played Championship games at this stage and tough, competitive club games are as good as preparation as you can get. Its good enough for most counties including Derry.
Was at Blayney V Clontibret last night and it was poor stuff. JP, McManus, McGuigan and M Corey among those missing for Clontibret but they still dominated with Anthony Rooney as good as anyone on pitch. Banty in crowd as well. Finished 0-6 a piece.
Did that Rooney guy walk off the Monaghan panel one year? Then again not hard to shine if there were no county men on show.
Dessie Moen playing?
The Monaghan County Board love Banty anyway by all accounts
Dessie, Vinny Corey playing for Clont and all players County men playing - strimmer in midfield against Rooney.
Rooney walked/pushed last year early on after an incident in training. Think he can throw towel in at any stage, as he didn't play too much last year with Clontibret either.
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 07, 2009, 11:10:38 AM
lads you should not read too much into what the papers say - remember who wrote the article yesterday in the Irish News? Damien Cassidy will playing the "old double think" game right up to the throw in.
I would bet that Lockhart will start or will play al good part in the game. Patsy Bradley would not be starting if Fergal Doc was playing - it will be Muldoon and Doc at mid field.Patsy and Doc are too similarin style of play. Mark Lynch is fine. As for stephen O Neill he has a reoccurrance of the same injury. Riding a mountain bike around gortin will not solve his knee problem.
I think there was a very good chance Patsy would have started going by the performances this year so far in the League, tho I agree they are similar. Patsy is a loss and Muldoon hasn't 70 mins in him. But possibly the biggest loss is Niall McCusker. What about that McGoldrick lad - is he injured?
Can't see Lynch lasting the full 70 either. Conlieth Gilligan was also a steadying influence but wouldn't have had 70 mins in himself either.
As for Lochart - it's only him will know I'd say if he's fit or not.
Funny I thought the guy who worked the hardest last year in the Monaghan match (after Gerard O'Kane) was Raymond Wilkinson who harried all day long and this is what you need against Monaghan. He's not involved this year by all accounts.
Quote from: bingobus on May 07, 2009, 11:48:07 AM
Quote from: JMohan on May 07, 2009, 11:41:20 AM
Quote from: bingobus on May 07, 2009, 10:55:58 AM
I see Banty is ruling the roast again this year, taking games scheduled for this weekend forward to last night and leaving no more league matches before the Derry game. Star matches just till then. Club games midweek for players doing exams and tarvelling from round country to suit the manager of the county team. I'm all for preparation but most counties have played Championship games at this stage and tough, competitive club games are as good as preparation as you can get. Its good enough for most counties including Derry.
Was at Blayney V Clontibret last night and it was poor stuff. JP, McManus, McGuigan and M Corey among those missing for Clontibret but they still dominated with Anthony Rooney as good as anyone on pitch. Banty in crowd as well. Finished 0-6 a piece.
Did that Rooney guy walk off the Monaghan panel one year? Then again not hard to shine if there were no county men on show.
Dessie Moen playing?
The Monaghan County Board love Banty anyway by all accounts
Dessie, Vinny Corey playing for Clont and all players County men playing - strimmer in midfield against Rooney.
Rooney walked/pushed last year early on after an incident in training. Think he can throw towel in at any stage, as he didn't play too much last year with Clontibret either.
Who were they playing?
Did they win?
Strimmer??
I watched hm play in Clones I think one year and thought he was good
What about that Conlon lad?
Strimmer is Dermot McArdle
James Conlon is gone off the panel.
Who won? Clontibtret?
Quote from: JMohan on May 07, 2009, 12:53:54 PM
Who won? Clontibtret?
Draw, as said in original post!
Didn't get to the game last night bingobus but it sounded like dour stuff alright, the scoreline alone would suggest a brutal game.
Anthony's a funny fella alright, he can just take a notion and stop playing, but when he plays he can be just brilliant. He'd only returned from America in the winter of 2007 and he was put on the county panel straight away, I've a notion he wasn't too bothered tbh, and he's definately not one of these lads who have football as their life. When he left the county he went into the club training, but by the start of the league he was in the crowd. I'd say he came back this year as Brennan is in charge again, a few players have returned in fact.
derry folk infighting and monaghan men discussing club football.....maybe we sould have a thread for the match itself? ;D
It's a change from the other way round! ;D
More like Monaghan men, united in purpose, discussing pertinent football issues, related to the serious matter of the County preparations for the Championship game.
Quote from: JMohan on May 07, 2009, 07:12:08 PM
It's a change from the other way round! ;D
touché :D
Quote from: Main Street on May 07, 2009, 07:14:00 PM
More like Monaghan men, united in purpose, discussing pertinent football issues, related to the serious matter of the County preparations for the Championship game.
no humor allowed here? :'(
No mercy and no prisoners.
Quote from: Main Street on May 07, 2009, 11:24:46 PM
No mercy and no prisoners.
as long as the same can be said of derry come may 24th then i'll be happy enough
Apparently, that is the question.
Are there any challenge games planned beforehand? Are Derry playin someone for the opening of the new Owen Roe's pitch in Coleraine? Have Monaghan any challenges planned or is it just training?
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 08, 2009, 01:18:26 PM
Are there any challenge games planned beforehand? Are Derry playin someone for the opening of the new Owen Roe's pitch in Coleraine? Have Monaghan any challenges planned or is it just training?
All Ireland Champions Derry play Antrim (its masters football).
How did u hear about the pitch opening GrandMasterFlash? Did you get The Message? We just got the pitch sorted with White Lines there... ho ho ho
If anyones interested heres details of the official opening of our pitch and new pavillion. Its also the opening weekend of the North West 200 (http://www.northwest200.org/) so Portstewart will be buzzing.
From http://www.eoghanrua.com/
Official opening of our Pitch & Pavilion
Sunday 17th May 2009
MAIN EVENT
DERRY MASTERS v ANTRIM MASTERS
Be sure to be there !!!
1:00pm : Assemble
1:15pm - 1:35pm: U10 Football & Hurling
1:40pm - 2:00pm: U12 Football & Hurling
2:30pm - 3:00pm: Official Opening
3:30pm - 3:45pm: Derry & Antrim Masters warm up
4:00pm : Derry & Antrim Masters throw in
BBQ • Snack Shop • Smoothie Bar • Bouncy Castles • Laser Maze
• Traditional Music • Band
what date do the winners of the monaghan derry game play again?they play winners of tyrone armagh?
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 08, 2009, 01:26:44 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 08, 2009, 01:18:26 PM
Are there any challenge games planned beforehand? Are Derry playin someone for the opening of the new Owen Roe's pitch in Coleraine? Have Monaghan any challenges planned or is it just training?
All Ireland Champions Derry play Antrim (its masters football).
How did u hear about the pitch opening GrandMasterFlash? Did you get The Message? We just got the pitch sorted with White Lines there... ho ho ho
I play football with an ex-Owen Roe's lad. Good club there. I'm impressed with the junior->intermedaite->senior jump in as many years.. I hear ya give Bellaghy a good oul run for it last week too..
Quote from: Tommy Tight Lips on May 08, 2009, 02:01:22 PM
what date do the winners of the monaghan derry game play again?they play winners of tyrone armagh?
-----------------------------------------------------
21/06/09: Tyr/Arm v Derry/Mon
ULSTER CHAMPIONSHIP, SEMI-FINAL
Venue: TBC Date: Sunday, 21 June Throw-in: 1400 BST (Minor 1215) Coverage: Live: Radio Ulster MW and on the BBC NI GAA website
-----------------------------------------------------
Taken from BBC GAA: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/7840342.stm
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 08, 2009, 01:18:26 PM
Are there any challenge games planned beforehand? Are Derry playin someone for the opening of the new Owen Roe's pitch in Coleraine? Have Monaghan any challenges planned or is it just training?
don't think derry will be playing any challenge games or opening any pitches. dont think the management are into that.
this thread has died a death. wont be near the game myself. £20 is a farce, sit in the house and watch it with the feet up
Quote from: cameltohill on May 13, 2009, 05:56:58 PM
this thread has died a death. wont be near the game myself. £20 is a farce, sit in the house and watch it with the feet up
That's the spirit.
Quote from: cameltohill on May 13, 2009, 05:56:58 PM
this thread has died a death. wont be near the game myself. £20 is a farce, sit in the house and watch it with the feet up
Swatragh man in 'Tight with money' shocker!!
From infighting to apathy.
£20 ;D
Quote from: Main Street on May 13, 2009, 10:01:16 PM
From infighting to apathy.
£20 ;D
And we have to pay more...
Looking forward to this, btw what are Derry minors like?
Quote from: cameltohill on May 13, 2009, 05:56:58 PM
wont be near the game myself. £20 is a farce, sit in the house and watch it with the feet up
Terrace tickets are £13.
But anyway, many people who will complain about £20 on the Sunday will have gone out and spent twice that on the Saturday night.
How much was the stand tickets for the League games, eg in healy Park, we were at the terraces I think they wer a 10er.
So the prices have taken up most of this weeks debate on this thread. Back to the match itself. Will there be many changes to the starting line ups from the league finals. I can't see monaghan making many. JP to start at full back if fully fit, Ronaghan maybe at FF but I doubt that. I would pick McBennett in goals. He played against Dublin in a challenge recently and was always looking for varied kick outs against a strong wind. If midfield wins as many balls as usual we will need plenty of quick / short kick outs during the match.
Quote from: thebandit on May 13, 2009, 10:15:52 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 13, 2009, 10:01:16 PM
From infighting to apathy.
£20 ;D
And we have to pay more...
Looking forward to this, btw what are Derry minors like?
dont think they are the best from what i have hearded, i know the league results mean nout but they havent been good.what way are your boys looking?
This thread has went very quiet given its only a week to the game!
Really looking forward to the match, think its about time we gave them Monaghan men a good tankin ;D
Someone has to bite :D
It'll pick up now that it's the next game up.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 17, 2009, 11:33:45 AM
This thread has went very quiet given its only a week to the game!
Really looking forward to the match, think its about time we gave them Monaghan men a good tankin ;D
Someone has to bite :D
Always ready to oblige ;D
(http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/corbis/DGT087/great-white-shark_~42-16424114.jpg)
Looks like home advantage will be bigger this year than any before in recent times.
lads do you think the game will pull the crowds? --- the brewster Park was only half full today.
The pitch in celtic park is in some shape - perfect condition.
I'd have though it will pull circa 20,000. Was just thinking today about Derry's record at Celtic Park - when was the last time we were beaten there? I know there hasn;t been games there this year but I can't recall a defeat there in the League in the past few seasons.
Rav W/Meath 07 I think, but the championship record that I can recall is pretty intact
1994 against Down?
I don't think that Derry have played many Ulster Championship matches in Celtic Park over the last 20years. So home advantage probably won't mean too much.
This is going to be a tough one for monaghan.
beating derry is tough enough. beating them in celtic park is gonna be tougher.
and to beat them 3 years on the trot would be a huge feat for this monagahn team.
Not exactly confident, but i will throw money on monaghan anyway (always do, win and the winnings always pays for the ticket for the next round, lose and its sod it, all back to club football!!).
Need Lennon to regain form. The 2 keepers done well in the league but for command of high balls in the square and better range of kickouts i'd go for mcbennet.
Hope mcmanus finds his form too. he was poor in the last few games.
This is a big game for both.
For Cassidy he has put all his eggs in one basket - the championship.
For Monaghan they have to do something big in Bantys last roll of the dice.
I think Derry are in transition, they are moving to a more mobile game, last year it was a more physical approach, but this year he's using smaller men.
Monaghan look not to be as overtrained going into this season as before and should be fresher than they were first day out against Fermanagh.
Lennon is supposedly going through a poor patch, Dick is still Dick
Derry are missing Patsy Bradley and both Enda Muldoon and Diver struggle to get through a full 70 each, Fergal will not be as fit as he was last year, but will still be a force.
I think they'll both break even here.
Up front Monaghan still rely on Freeman and if Derry stop him Monaghan will struggle. I think Cassidy will have enough men and a decent enough plan to snuff him out.
Derry have more options up front with Eoin Bradley the danger man this year. Paddy will also be a threat with one or two scores from others such as Muldoon.
I think Derry aren't as strong as last year, but better mentally prepared for this year.
On paper Derry are struggling with injury concerns over Lochart, Muldoon, McGoldrick, Lynch and O'Kane. It really depends on how many of these are fit or ready for the game.
If they are fit and heads are right, being at home etc, then it's a Derry win.
Otherwise, Monaghan to beat them.
It will also be a good test to see how things go when the going gets tight for Derry. In previous years we saw Paddy Bradley shouting at the bench against Fermanagh and coming off against Kerry after a knock - will he do the same against Monaghan if things get tough?
On another note - it's certainly a bigger game for Monaghan as Derry can't do the back door, no matter what people think, Monaghan generally improve in the backdoor.
Now Muldoon is definitely out for it.
Pressures on Joe Diver now.
With no Conway for back up.
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
For Cassidy he has put all his eggs in one basket - the championship.
So what, did he throw the league final? Both Monaghan and Derry got to their respective league finals. Disregard what Cassidy said about the league - all managers say the same. No difference here.
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
Lennon is supposedly going through a poor patch, Dick is still Dick
Dick has been one of the best players on the team so far this year. Long may it continue. But yes, we do need Lennon to find his form again. This would be a nice time for it to happen!
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
Up front Monaghan still rely on Freeman and if Derry stop him Monaghan will struggle. I think Cassidy will have enough men and a decent enough plan to snuff him out.
Ah, that old Tommy Freeman myth that those outside of Monaghan have. Take a look at the spread of scoring over this year's league. We have the likes of Downey, McManus, Finlay, Woods, Ronaghan... Tommy's a star forward, but we're not as reliant on his as we were a couple of years ago. But if Derry want to keep all of their backs concentrating on Tommy, that'll suit us fine. I'd imagine Cassidy has a handle on the reality however.
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
On another note - it's certainly a bigger game for Monaghan as Derry can't do the back door, no matter what people think, Monaghan generally improve in the backdoor.
Surely that means it's a bigger game for Derry?
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 11:53:20 AM
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
For Cassidy he has put all his eggs in one basket - the championship.
So what, did he throw the league final? Both Monaghan and Derry got to their respective league finals. Disregard what Cassidy said about the league - all managers say the same. No difference here.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 11:53:20 AM
Usually they do. But Cassidy moreso this year. He was dismissive of the league.
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
Lennon is supposedly going through a poor patch, Dick is still Dick
Dick has been one of the best players on the team so far this year. Long may it continue. But yes, we do need Lennon to find his form again. This would be a nice time for it to happen!
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
Up front Monaghan still rely on Freeman and if Derry stop him Monaghan will struggle. I think Cassidy will have enough men and a decent enough plan to snuff him out.
Ah, that old Tommy Freeman myth that those outside of Monaghan have. Take a look at the spread of scoring over this year's league. We have the likes of Downey, McManus, Finlay, Woods, Ronaghan... Tommy's a star forward, but we're not as reliant on his as we were a couple of years ago. But if Derry want to keep all of their backs concentrating on Tommy, that'll suit us fine. I'd imagine Cassidy has a handle on the reality however.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 11:53:20 AM
Sure - look at the scores. Freeman and Jap. Finaly mostly from frees on Freeman.
As for Ronaghan or Woods scoring! Come on! Downey may be a help though.
I think there was a stat last year that 60% of the scores for Monagahan come from Finlay and Freeman - snuff that out and your chances go up.
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
On another note - it's certainly a bigger game for Monaghan as Derry can't do the back door, no matter what people think, Monaghan generally improve in the backdoor.
Surely that means it's a bigger game for Derry?
Correct
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:29:07 AM
Now Muldoon is definitely out for it.
Pressures on Joe Diver now.
With no Conway for back up.
Patsy Bradley? ???
If he is out I think DC should put James Kilet in Midfield, he is a natural midfielder and played very well there for Derry Minors 2 years ago.
Starting to get worried about this game. Muldoon, Lockhart, Lynch, McCusker, Patsy Bradley all out!! I know we tried a lot of boys in the league but Monaghan are a Championship team who have been knocking on the door for a few years now and I think we will need to be closer to full strength to beat them.
Anyway my team for Sunday is:
Gillis
McGuckin McCloy GOK
Cartin BMG Sean Leo
Doc Diver
Lynn Murphy Mullan
P Bradley E Bradley S Bradley
E Bradley being out at HF with Murphy
You're kidding right?
You're going to do like last year and play the biggest threat to Monaghan in the half forward line?
Leave EB on the inside line last year Monaghan were delighted to see paddy bradley on the 40 and winning ball where he could do nothing.
Is BMG fit?
Gillis
Mc Guckin
Mc Cloy
G O Kane
SL Mc Goldrick
Barry Mc Goldrick
P Cartin
Doc
James kKelt
Lynn
Murphy
Lynch (If he is deemed fit) or else Mullan
Eoin Bradley
Paddy Bradley
Seamus Bradley
Quote from: screenexile on May 18, 2009, 01:09:12 PM
Starting to get worried about this game. Muldoon, Lockhart, Lynch, McCusker, Patsy Bradley all out!! I know we tried a lot of boys in the league but Monaghan are a Championship team who have been knocking on the door for a few years now and I think we will need to be closer to full strength to beat them.
Anyway my team for Sunday is:
Gillis
McGuckin McCloy GOK
Cartin BMG Sean Leo
Doc Diver
Lynn Murphy Mullan
P Bradley E Bradley S Bradley
E Bradley being out at HF with Murphy
Agree with your team except for one - Seamus Bradley. Thats not in a disrespectful way, I just think in terms of game time throughout the year he wouldn't be a starter come Sunday. Could be wrong!
I would probably play Barry McGuigan there.
I'd love to see GOK out further - he turned the game at the start of the second half last year by attacking and playing up tighter on Damien Freeman who had dropped back.
Also is SLMG ok to play?
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 01:28:01 PM
You're kidding right?
You're going to do like last year and play the biggest threat to Monaghan in the half forward line?
Leave EB on the inside line last year Monaghan were delighted to see paddy bradley on the 40 and winning ball where he could do nothing.
Is BMG fit?
If I am picking this up right, then I agree with you, don;t play the two Bradley together as Paddy is likely to be double marked, if they play him out further from goal it'll bring their defenders out and leave Eoin in on his own, a few goals could be the order of the day, eh Kind Larrson??
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 01:36:55 PM
I'd love to see GOK out further - he turned the game at the start of the second half last year by attacking and playing up tighter on Damien Freeman who had dropped back.
Also is SLMG ok to play?
Think Barry kitted out for Colreraine v Bellaghy and SL didn't, luckily enough we have a good lock of defenders i.e B Mc Alary
GoK usually does play far out in a Ricey type way they he often picks up a point or 2, he is a great sweeping defender.
OL93 - how can you advocate playing J Keilt at midfield in Ulster championship ahead of Diver? Not ready for that position at senior inter-county for a few years yet if ever. Wouldn;t have Seamy Breadley or B Mullan on either ideally but I suppose with the injuries there is a lack of options now in the forwards.
Quote from: Rav67 on May 18, 2009, 01:52:48 PM
OL93 - how can you advocate playing J Keilt at midfield in Ulster championship ahead of Diver? Not ready for that position at senior inter-county for a few years yet if ever. Wouldn;t have Seamy Breadley or B Mullan on either ideally but I suppose with the injuries there is a lack of options now in the forwards.
Diver can be a bit of a liability of times, I admit it's a bit of a gamble to put him into midfield after just being out of Minors 2 years but It might pay off, no harm in trying it and if it isn't working out then he could be moved to forwards and Diver put in Midfield. Any Kilrea people on here think this is viable?
Well with Lynch injured and E Bradley a viable option on the 40 I think Bumble is our best option as an inside forward along with Paddy. I suppose we will find out when the team is named I guess.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 18, 2009, 01:37:07 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 01:28:01 PM
You're kidding right?
You're going to do like last year and play the biggest threat to Monaghan in the half forward line?
Leave EB on the inside line last year Monaghan were delighted to see paddy bradley on the 40 and winning ball where he could do nothing.
Is BMG fit?
If I am picking this up right, then I agree with you, don;t play the two Bradley together as Paddy is likely to be double marked, if they play him out further from goal it'll bring their defenders out and leave Eoin in on his own, a few goals could be the order of the day, eh Kind Larrson??
No just play the two boys in the FF line and let the ball in ala Donegal last year
If they struggle, crowd it or double team, then move in either a bigger FF for the boys to play off or bring PB out.
But bringing the best Fwds in the game out the field is ludicrious
Quote from: screenexile on May 18, 2009, 02:01:40 PM
Well with Lynch injured and E Bradley a viable option on the 40 I think Bumble is our best option as an inside forward along with Paddy. I suppose we will find out when the team is named I guess.
I think you'll find out 2 minutes after the ball is thrown up
Pity there are no Derry fans slagging off Dick Clerkin this year,
worked very well for that Clones game :)
QuoteP Bradley E Bradley S Bradley
Bad enough for us to facing one Bradley, but 3 of them?
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 02:02:41 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 18, 2009, 01:37:07 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 01:28:01 PM
You're kidding right?
You're going to do like last year and play the biggest threat to Monaghan in the half forward line?
Leave EB on the inside line last year Monaghan were delighted to see paddy bradley on the 40 and winning ball where he could do nothing.
Is BMG fit?
If I am picking this up right, then I agree with you, don;t play the two Bradley together as Paddy is likely to be double marked, if they play him out further from goal it'll bring their defenders out and leave Eoin in on his own, a few goals could be the order of the day, eh Kind Larrson??
No just play the two boys in the FF line and let the ball in ala Donegal last year
If they struggle, crowd it or double team, then move in either a bigger FF for the boys to play off or bring PB out.
But bringing the best Fwds in the game out the field is ludicrious
But if they are played one on 40 on in full forward it'll make it harder for Monaghan to know which one to concentrate on marking, but if they are both in together it solves that problem as they can just crowd out the defence.
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 12:03:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 11:53:20 AM
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
Up front Monaghan still rely on Freeman and if Derry stop him Monaghan will struggle. I think Cassidy will have enough men and a decent enough plan to snuff him out.
Ah, that old Tommy Freeman myth that those outside of Monaghan have. Take a look at the spread of scoring over this year's league. We have the likes of Downey, McManus, Finlay, Woods, Ronaghan... Tommy's a star forward, but we're not as reliant on his as we were a couple of years ago. But if Derry want to keep all of their backs concentrating on Tommy, that'll suit us fine. I'd imagine Cassidy has a handle on the reality however.
Sure - look at the scores. Freeman and Jap. Finaly mostly from frees on Freeman.
As for Ronaghan or Woods scoring! Come on! Downey may be a help though.
I think there was a stat last year that 60% of the scores for Monagahan come from Finlay and Freeman - snuff that out and your chances go up.
Well let's look at some stats. Last year's game v Derry:
Finlay - out from suspension
Of Monaghan's 1-13, the following scores did not come from Freeman - Hanratty (0-03), Gollogly (0-02), Clerkin (1-00), McManus, Woods, Smyth (0-01 each)
As for Ronaghan, well he hasn't played too many full games, but he has scored goals in the league against Armagh and Cork - he's had a pretty good return for the amount of game time he's had.
Woods hasn't scored as much during the league as normal, but he knocked over 3 points v Donegal in a Man of the Match performance in last summer's qualifier. He also put over 3 points in the league game against Wexford and has also scored against Kildare and Armagh (there may be others - i can't recall).
Monaghan scored 4-16 against Laois. Of that, Tommy scored 1-06. 3-10 came from other players.
During the league, we've also had scores from Damien Freeman, Lennon, Clerkin, McManus, Hughes, Dessie Mone, Downey, Hanratty, McQuaid........... and scored 1-13 against Armagh with Freeman sent off in the opening minutes.
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2009, 02:07:18 PM
Pity there are no Derry fans slagging off Dick Clerkin this year,
worked very well for that Clones game :)
QuoteP Bradley E Bradley S Bradley
Bad enough for us to facing one Bradley, but 3 of them?
2 more in Patsy and Paul as well!!
Is Paul still injured or is no one giving him a chance after his poor enough showing in the league? I feel a bit sorry for him, he didn't really get the chance, while a great club player he has struggled at county level
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/8055696.stm
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 02:08:38 PM
Woods hasn't scored as much during the league as normal, but he knocked over 3 points v Donegal in a Man of the Match performance in last summer's qualifier. He also put over 3 points in the league game against Wexford and has also scored against Kildare and Armagh (there may be others - i can't recall).
I think we will need a big game from Rory in order to tip the scales our way
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 02:16:28 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/8055696.stm
Who won?
Derry v Monaghan
ULSTER CHAMPIONSHIP, FIRST ROUND
Venue: Celtic Park Date: Sunday, 17 May Throw-in: 1400 BST
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2009, 02:19:14 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 02:08:38 PM
Woods hasn't scored as much during the league as normal, but he knocked over 3 points v Donegal in a Man of the Match performance in last summer's qualifier. He also put over 3 points in the league game against Wexford and has also scored against Kildare and Armagh (there may be others - i can't recall).
I think we will need a big game from Rory in order to tip the scales our way
:D
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 18, 2009, 02:27:31 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2009, 02:19:14 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 02:08:38 PM
Woods hasn't scored as much during the league as normal, but he knocked over 3 points v Donegal in a Man of the Match performance in last summer's qualifier. He also put over 3 points in the league game against Wexford and has also scored against Kildare and Armagh (there may be others - i can't recall).
I think we will need a big game from Rory in order to tip the scales our way
:D
:D Hope he does better than the first round game last year though! He usually saves his best for later in the summer(MOTM Kerry 07, Donegal 08), but we really need him in this game as you say MS.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 12:03:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 11:53:20 AM
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
Up front Monaghan still rely on Freeman and if Derry stop him Monaghan will struggle. I think Cassidy will have enough men and a decent enough plan to snuff him out.
Ah, that old Tommy Freeman myth that those outside of Monaghan have. Take a look at the spread of scoring over this year's league. We have the likes of Downey, McManus, Finlay, Woods, Ronaghan... Tommy's a star forward, but we're not as reliant on his as we were a couple of years ago. But if Derry want to keep all of their backs concentrating on Tommy, that'll suit us fine. I'd imagine Cassidy has a handle on the reality however.
Sure - look at the scores. Freeman and Jap. Finaly mostly from frees on Freeman.
As for Ronaghan or Woods scoring! Come on! Downey may be a help though.
I think there was a stat last year that 60% of the scores for Monagahan come from Finlay and Freeman - snuff that out and your chances go up.
Well let's look at some stats. Last year's game v Derry:
Finlay - out from suspension
Of Monaghan's 1-13, the following scores did not come from Freeman - Hanratty (0-03), Gollogly (0-02), Clerkin (1-00), McManus, Woods, Smyth (0-01 each)
As for Ronaghan, well he hasn't played too many full games, but he has scored goals in the league against Armagh and Cork - he's had a pretty good return for the amount of game time he's had.
Woods hasn't scored as much during the league as normal, but he knocked over 3 points v Donegal in a Man of the Match performance in last summer's qualifier. He also put over 3 points in the league game against Wexford and has also scored against Kildare and Armagh (there may be others - i can't recall).
Monaghan scored 4-16 against Laois. Of that, Tommy scored 1-06. 3-10 came from other players.
During the league, we've also had scores from Damien Freeman, Lennon, Clerkin, McManus, Hughes, Dessie Mone, Downey, Hanratty, McQuaid........... and scored 1-13 against Armagh with Freeman sent off in the opening minutes.
First of all you can't look at the Laois match - that was a turkey shoot. I heard Banty even got a point that day - in fact going on League scoring is a poor idea.
The only guy there you've mentioned that scored anything substaintial was Hanratty - and he's not playing. As for Woods, maybe 2 points most.
Monaghan rely on Freeman too much and like I said if that is snuffed or he gets injured I think Monaghan will struggle.
Thats is a serious list fo injuries for Derry
Patsy Bradley, Niall Mc Cusker, Lockhart, Mark Lynch, Collie Devlin, Paul Bradley and now Muldoon. As I said on the Derry thread, is this possibly a bluff by the Derry management...thats 7 players who are very capable of playing.
Hardly a bluff
Patsy Bradley - Defo out - Another 3 weeks I'd say
Niall Mc Cusker - Defo out- Long term
Lockhart - Defo out
Mark Lynch - Defo out
Collie Devlin - Defo out
Paul Bradley - Defo out
Muldoon - Defo out
Missing cover -
Conway
Gilligan
Wilkinson
Fitness Question -
Doherty
Barry McGoldrick
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 18, 2009, 04:28:25 PM
Thats is a serious list fo injuries for Derry
Patsy Bradley, Niall Mc Cusker, Lockhart, Mark Lynch, Collie Devlin, Paul Bradley and now Muldoon. As I said on the Derry thread, is this possibly a bluff by the Derry management...thats 7 players who are very capable of playing.
Think your reading a bit much into it Max, the derry management arent the ones openly speculating on injuries, its ourselves with time on our hands on the gaaboard. So I dont think this is mindgames.
The simpler explanation is that they are all carrying genuine injuries, the question is to what extent.
I think we have seen in Derry before and with Down recently that playing mind games and muddying the waters vis a ve selection is at best ineffective and at worst counter productive.
Cassidy isn't someone who strikes me as interested in playing mind games
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 18, 2009, 01:35:05 PM
Gillis
Mc Guckin
Mc Cloy
G O Kane
SL Mc Goldrick
Barry Mc Goldrick
P Cartin
Doc
James kKelt
Lynn
Murphy
Lynch (If he is deemed fit) or else Mullan
Eoin Bradley
Paddy Bradley
Seamus Bradley
I dont mean to pick on your selection Oakleaf but picking kielt at midfield with his age, experience and ball winning ability shown to date is not wise
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 04:39:11 PM
Hardly a bluff
Patsy Bradley - Defo out - Another 3 weeks I'd say
Niall Mc Cusker - Defo out- Long term
Lockhart - Defo out
Mark Lynch - Defo out
Collie Devlin - Defo out
Paul Bradley - Defo out
Muldoon - Defo out
Missing cover -
Conway
Gilligan
Wilkinson
Fitness Question -
Doherty
Barry McGoldrick
???
Whiskey Steve, I have admitted it is a bit of a gamble but James have never looked comfortable on the wing and there is limited options for midfield with only other one Diver who hasn't been too productive of late. As I have said before, although not to compared, he captained Derry to an All Ireland Minor final from Midfield so he obviously has a degree of maturity about it, and regarding experience there is only one way you can get it!! For the past couple or 3 seasons Muldoon has been playing in the wing forward position, when moved into his natural midfield position he was dynamite. I'm not saying its a way to solve the midfield problem but it is certainly an option.
SLK I think he means plays not on the panel this year. However regarding Wilkinson I don't think he ever really made an impact on the county team aside the Fermanagh game where he kicked a couple of late points. He's more a club player, much like Paul Bradley seems to be.
Both the highlighted players never added much to the county. Two fantastic club players but just couldn't bring it into county. Though you could never fault Crooks effort, always tried right to the end.
Oakleafer you seem intent on getting Kilet a starting place evn if we have to put him in goals. I don't think he warrants a place on the team and would have Diver streets ahead for the middle of the field (and yes I know he can be a bit wild somtimes but he shows a bit of guts and hunger which I like).
I just think he has got a lot of Bad press SLK despite having a poor enough league campaign he still managed 1-12 and I think the fact he isn't comfortable playing where he is points to the reason why he maybe had a poor campaign.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 18, 2009, 05:11:53 PM
I just think he has got a lot of Bad press SLK despite having a poor enough league campaign he still managed 1-12 and I think the fact he isn't comfortable playing where he is points to the reason why he maybe had a poor campaign.
How much of that was from play?
BTW I have absolutely nothing against him, great footballer, but doesnt seem to show any hunger and struggles to win his own ball. I think to throw him into the middle of the field would be: a) madness in terms of his experience V Monaghans experience; and b) a kick in the goolies for the likes of Diver who has been the cover for this position.
you cant be serious thinking of playing kielt in midfield?
sure he couldnt even play there for the u21s-doc and diver it will have to be...
I don't know just a thought!
The only think about diver is, although he has the heart of a Lion, he often makes silly fouls which can turn the game on it's head, e.g. v Tyrone he was on 2 mins before being penalised for taking about 15 steps which resulted in a Tyrone Free and one of the turning points in the game. But then v Kerry in last years NLF he was practically flawless! It's hard to know.
Also, I know I'm not his biggest fan and have berated him a but in the past, but what is Mc Kaigue like in the forwards? He couple fill in one of the wing forward slots.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 18, 2009, 05:03:41 PM
Whiskey Steve, I have admitted it is a bit of a gamble but James have never looked comfortable on the wing and there is limited options for midfield with only other one Diver who hasn't been too productive of late. As I have said before, although not to compared, he captained Derry to an All Ireland Minor final from Midfield so he obviously has a degree of maturity about it, and regarding experience there is only one way you can get it!! For the past couple or 3 seasons Muldoon has been playing in the wing forward position, when moved into his natural midfield position he was dynamite. I'm not saying its a way to solve the midfield problem but it is certainly an option.
Totally disagree its not an option, not at this time anyway. I dont think you could seriously start Kielt ahead of Diver for his first championship game against Clerkin and Lennon in a position he has not played at senior. Kielt is a big lad but he is not a physical player, nor aggressive enough for this type of midfield battle, rarely saw him win a ball if he was being marked tightly during the league.
That minor team got cleaned out at midfield in the all ireland final.
Comparisons with Muldoons switch to midfield are irrelevant. Muldoon is a seasoned senior player with much greater experience, secondly he is an outstanding fielder of the ball. Kielt is not in his league in this respect.
I'd love it if Kielt played midfield!
Quote from: Schkite on May 18, 2009, 05:42:54 PM
I'd love it if Kielt played midfield!
Yep, i think it could only be good for Derry.
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 12:03:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 11:53:20 AM
Quote from: Logan on May 18, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
Up front Monaghan still rely on Freeman and if Derry stop him Monaghan will struggle. I think Cassidy will have enough men and a decent enough plan to snuff him out.
Ah, that old Tommy Freeman myth that those outside of Monaghan have. Take a look at the spread of scoring over this year's league. We have the likes of Downey, McManus, Finlay, Woods, Ronaghan... Tommy's a star forward, but we're not as reliant on his as we were a couple of years ago. But if Derry want to keep all of their backs concentrating on Tommy, that'll suit us fine. I'd imagine Cassidy has a handle on the reality however.
Sure - look at the scores. Freeman and Jap. Finaly mostly from frees on Freeman.
As for Ronaghan or Woods scoring! Come on! Downey may be a help though.
I think there was a stat last year that 60% of the scores for Monagahan come from Finlay and Freeman - snuff that out and your chances go up.
Well let's look at some stats. Last year's game v Derry:
Finlay - out from suspension
Of Monaghan's 1-13, the following scores did not come from Freeman - Hanratty (0-03), Gollogly (0-02), Clerkin (1-00), McManus, Woods, Smyth (0-01 each)
As for Ronaghan, well he hasn't played too many full games, but he has scored goals in the league against Armagh and Cork - he's had a pretty good return for the amount of game time he's had.
Woods hasn't scored as much during the league as normal, but he knocked over 3 points v Donegal in a Man of the Match performance in last summer's qualifier. He also put over 3 points in the league game against Wexford and has also scored against Kildare and Armagh (there may be others - i can't recall).
Monaghan scored 4-16 against Laois. Of that, Tommy scored 1-06. 3-10 came from other players.
During the league, we've also had scores from Damien Freeman, Lennon, Clerkin, McManus, Hughes, Dessie Mone, Downey, Hanratty, McQuaid........... and scored 1-13 against Armagh with Freeman sent off in the opening minutes.
First of all you can't look at the Laois match - that was a turkey shoot. I heard Banty even got a point that day - in fact going on League scoring is a poor idea.
The only guy there you've mentioned that scored anything substaintial was Hanratty - and he's not playing. As for Woods, maybe 2 points most.
Monaghan rely on Freeman too much and like I said if that is snuffed or he gets injured I think Monaghan will struggle.
16 Monaghan players scored during the league. (I'm not sure why going on league scoring is not relevant.) Yes, Freeman was out in front (5-18), but he's also a free taker and our penalty taker, so that's to be expected. Looking at the league final programme, during the league (before the final) Finlay scored 1-25 (only 6 points behind Tommy, including some from frees obviously), Downey scored 1-08, McManus scored 1-07 (from half-back), Woods scored 0-09, Ronaghan scored 2-02 (despite being a sub in most cases), Damien Freeman 1-03 (from half-back)...
Your reference to Hanratty being the only guy who scored anything substanial is irrelevant. Your first point as that Monaghan are over reliant on Tommy. Surely then it's better to have 10 men capable of scoring one point each in a game rather than one more 'Tommy' to score 10 points?
Whats the story with stand tickets?
What is the capacity of the stand?
Apparently Monaghan only received 500.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 18, 2009, 05:24:11 PM
I don't know just a thought!
The only think about diver is, although he has the heart of a Lion, he often makes silly fouls which can turn the game on it's head, e.g. v Tyrone he was on 2 mins before being penalised for taking about 15 steps which resulted in a Tyrone Free and one of the turning points in the game. But then v Kerry in last years NLF he was practically flawless! It's hard to know.
Also, I know I'm not his biggest fan and have berated him a but in the past, but what is Mc Kaigue like in the forwards? He couple fill in one of the wing forward slots.
C'mon ol93, drop this kielt at midfield craic - his father isn't even playing him at midfield for his club - enough said!
Quote from: Mid Mon on May 19, 2009, 08:17:48 AM
Whats the story with stand tickets?
What is the capacity of the stand?
Apparently Monaghan only received 500.
stand capacity is 3,000 - each derry club received 8each, that wipes about 400-500 out , derry players & mgt received about 200 between them, then u factor in club derrys stand tickets and other "personell" (ie) mccloys mates lol!!!
500 a little unfair to be honest, i thought 1,000 would have done the job!!!
are monaghan likely to bring big numbers??
Quote from: southoftheborder on May 19, 2009, 09:10:57 AM
Quote from: Mid Mon on May 19, 2009, 08:17:48 AM
Whats the story with stand tickets?
What is the capacity of the stand?
Apparently Monaghan only received 500.
stand capacity is 3,000 - each derry club received 8each, that wipes about 400-500 out , derry players & mgt received about 200 between them, then u factor in club derrys stand tickets and other "personell" (ie) mccloys mates lol!!!
500 a little unfair to be honest, i thought 1,000 would have done the job!!!
are monaghan likely to bring big numbers??
Season tickets also in the stand, and every season ticket had the option to buy 2 extra, so there coould be another few hundred Monaghan supporters in the stand.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 19, 2009, 09:29:56 AM
Quote from: southoftheborder on May 19, 2009, 09:10:57 AM
Quote from: Mid Mon on May 19, 2009, 08:17:48 AM
Whats the story with stand tickets?
What is the capacity of the stand?
Apparently Monaghan only received 500.
stand capacity is 3,000 - each derry club received 8each, that wipes about 400-500 out , derry players & mgt received about 200 between them, then u factor in club derrys stand tickets and other "personell" (ie) mccloys mates lol!!!
500 a little unfair to be honest, i thought 1,000 would have done the job!!!
are monaghan likely to bring big numbers??
Season tickets also in the stand, and every season ticket had the option to buy 2 extra, so there coould be another few hundred Monaghan supporters in the stand.
500 of youse monaghan hoors in the stand will be enough to listen to...and to look at for that matter :D
Its the official opening of the stand before the match on Sunday too so there will be "dignitaries" and the like there which probably wouldnt have been there otherwise. I'm sure that will take up a good chunk of stand seats.
Really looking forward to the match but at this stage its too difficult to make any sort of judgement on how it will go untill we see how many of the injured Derry players are actually available.
How are Monaghan fixed for injuries?
I can see this being a fairly low scoring game with a goal for either side quite possibly winning it.
looks like derry are up the creek with injuries if cassidy pulls this one out of the bag it will be a great acheivment. heres my team for sunday
gillis
okane - on hanratty but if monaghan play 2 inside this is the man to go out the field or sweep
mccloy
mcguckin - on freeman
cartin
b mcgoldrick - will be needed to kick frees from the left side with lynch injured
sl mcgoldrick
doc
diver - the man needs to be focused and shooting needs to be banned!!
lynn
mullan - these two up and down the wings mcguigan can switch with mullan after a time keep this role high octane
barry mcguigan - holding hf role, with kielt to come in here for mullan/mcguigan depending on how open the game looks
murphy - in for breaking ball
paddy bradley
skinner - needs to be careful hes not drwan into any shit with that mone hoor
also this talk about kielt at midfield is absurd! cant win a tight ball cant tackle wont track back would be at sea! young fella has an outrageous left peg and great vision if hes to be played needs to be near the posts!out the fields no good for him no good for the the team!
ball needs moved quick and wing backs need to be driving up the pitch every oppurtunity, if the shots on take it! we can take midfield need to get dominance down the flanks!
Doire abu!
Quote from: Captain Black on May 19, 2009, 01:50:18 PM
skinner - needs to be careful hes not drwan into any shit with that mone hoor
:D Dessie sure pisses people off! He'll not even be on him I wouldn't say. I'd imagine Vinny may be on Eoin Bradley given Dessie's record on Paddy, but sure you don't know what way it'll pan out.
Quote from: Captain Black on May 19, 2009, 01:50:18 PM
okane - on hanratty but if monaghan play 2 inside this is the man to go out the field or sweep
Hanratty
might come on as a sub, I don't think he'll start given his form but again Banty may see this as a good game for him, who knows.
Hanratty seems to be a bit of an enigma. Anytime I've seen him play its all c**k and no spunk.
Quote from: the green man on May 19, 2009, 02:42:51 PM
Hanratty seems to be a bit of an enigma. Anytime I've seen him play its all c**k and no spunk.
Id describe him as the way Diego Forlan used to play, scores the odd outrageous goal/point against the big teams and flops for the rest, Possibly a transfer to Spain would bring out the best.
Quote from: the green man on May 19, 2009, 02:42:51 PM
Hanratty seems to be a bit of an enigma. Anytime I've seen him play its all c**k and no spunk.
He's got potential but that's worth nothing if he can't build on it. He's got great speed but most of the time now he overplays the ball while going past a defender and a free out is given, teams know just how to deal with it. He still hasn't lived up to his performance against Down in '07 where he scored 2-2 and was across all the papers in the country afterwards, even now some people base their opinion of him on that game.
Personally I think Hanratty thinks he is better than he is. I think he could be a really good player if he didnt try to win so many headlines for himself and concentrate more on the team effort. This is why I think he hasnt been starting for the Monaghan TEAM...he plays as an individual and not as part of the team....something us Derry folk know a bit about. He's still quite young isnt he? Probably another year or two and you'd see the best of him then.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 19, 2009, 04:21:12 PM
Personally I think Hanratty thinks he is better than he is. I think he could be a really good player if he didnt try to win so many headlines for himself and concentrate more on the team effort. This is why I think he hasnt been starting for the Monaghan TEAM...he plays as an individual and not as part of the team....something us Derry folk know a bit about. He's still quite young isnt he? Probably another year or two and you'd see the best of him then.
While it might look a bit like that on the pitch, his nature wouldn't be like that at all... he'll come good.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 19, 2009, 04:21:12 PM
Personally I think Hanratty thinks he is better than he is. I think he could be a really good player if he didnt try to win so many headlines for himself and concentrate more on the team effort. This is why I think he hasnt been starting for the Monaghan TEAM...he plays as an individual and not as part of the team....something us Derry folk know a bit about. He's still quite young isnt he? Probably another year or two and you'd see the best of him then.
Please god! He has pace/energy to burn if it could be channeled.. Downey's a bette option in the corner for the team.
You have a point there Brick, though what he thinks about his own talents is an unknown.
He has his strengths and tries to play to them, a tough pacey fearless, a wee annoying fecker wiring his way around the defender in no space, either getting through or winning a free. In the leagues games this year that were on tv, he rarely made any progress and got lost up a few blind alleys. A good defender will brush him off easy enough.
He is limited, he could learn a few more common skills, like passing the ball.
Hanratty's far from the finished article, but he's still a very useful option. He hasn't been scoring much recently, but he does manage to win frees off defenders - when you have Freeman and Finlay to pop them over, that's as good as a score.
I think Hanratty has been playing terrible for his club too
The only fouls Hanratty will be involved in are when he fouls the ball, repeatedly.
The Derry team is due to be named tonight at a Club Derry function...so perhaps we will have some idea of how bad the injuries are in the morning.
Quote from: thebandit on May 19, 2009, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 19, 2009, 04:21:12 PM
Personally I think Hanratty thinks he is better than he is. I think he could be a really good player if he didnt try to win so many headlines for himself and concentrate more on the team effort. This is why I think he hasnt been starting for the Monaghan TEAM...he plays as an individual and not as part of the team....something us Derry folk know a bit about. He's still quite young isnt he? Probably another year or two and you'd see the best of him then.
While it might look a bit like that on the pitch, his nature wouldn't be like that at all... he'll come good.
The problem for Monaghan is he's running out of time for the 24th
Quote from: Schkite on May 19, 2009, 02:31:31 PM
Quote from: Captain Black on May 19, 2009, 01:50:18 PM
skinner - needs to be careful hes not drwan into any shit with that mone hoor
:D Dessie sure pisses people off! He'll not even be on him I wouldn't say. I'd imagine Vinny may be on Eoin Bradley given Dessie's record on Paddy, but sure you don't know what way it'll pan out.
Quote from: Captain Black on May 19, 2009, 01:50:18 PM
okane - on hanratty but if monaghan play 2 inside this is the man to go out the field or sweep
Hanratty might come on as a sub, I don't think he'll start given his form but again Banty may see this as a good game for him, who knows.
Considering the ball Paddy Bradley and Eoin Bradley won last year in Clones it didn't matter which of the Moens were on them.
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2009, 02:07:18 PM
Pity there are no Derry fans slagging off Dick Clerkin this year,
worked very well for that Clones game :)
Maybe it's going to be Hanratty this year!
Quote from: Logan on May 19, 2009, 08:54:01 PM
The problem for Monaghan is he's running out of time for the 24th
He'll come good in a year or two, we're not exactly counting on him for the Derry game.
Quote from: Logan on May 19, 2009, 08:55:39 PM
Considering the ball Paddy Bradley and Eoin Bradley won last year in Clones it didn't matter which of the Moens were on them.
??? What are you on about "which" of the Mones, I only mentioned Dessie. JP may not be fit for this one anyway.
Muldoon injury played down
Derry's Enda Muldoon
19 May 2009
Reports that Enda Muldoon has been ruled out of Sunday's Ulster SFC opener against Monaghan have been denied by Derry PRO Sean Gunning.
It was widely reported on Monday that the former All-Star broke a bone in his ankle during a weekend training camp in the Slieve Russell Hotel in Co. Cavan. It was believed to be a recurrence of the injury which ruled him out of Ballinderry's Ulster club football final replay defeat to Crossmaglen before Christmas, but this has been refuted by Gunning.
"As of now, he is not ruled in or out. There will have to be another check on the player before a decision is made," he said.
"He went over on the ankle alright, but there was no break. Damian Cassidy will give out his starting team at the Oak Leaf Restaurant on Tuesday night."
In the event of Muldoon not starting, Joe Diver is expected to come into midfield to partner his Bellaghy club colleague Fergal Doherty as Patsy Bradley is ruled out through injury and James has played little football since undergoing a groin operation.
The Oak Leaf management are also planning without injured defenders Sean Marty Lockhart and Niall McCusker.
Quote from: Logan on May 19, 2009, 08:54:01 PM
Quote from: thebandit on May 19, 2009, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 19, 2009, 04:21:12 PM
Personally I think Hanratty thinks he is better than he is. I think he could be a really good player if he didnt try to win so many headlines for himself and concentrate more on the team effort. This is why I think he hasnt been starting for the Monaghan TEAM...he plays as an individual and not as part of the team....something us Derry folk know a bit about. He's still quite young isnt he? Probably another year or two and you'd see the best of him then.
While it might look a bit like that on the pitch, his nature wouldn't be like that at all... he'll come good.
The problem for Monaghan is he's running out of time for the 24th
It's not a problem for Monaghan. If a player like Hanratty comes good (as he has the talent to do so), then it will be a bonus.
It all just goes to amplify that Monaghan are a blend of some quality, some erratic quality, the rest are decent honest players along with a few players who are good in parts.
It's a credit to the management team who have instilled a solid team spirit in this bunch and an unshakeable belief in their ability as a team. They will be well motivated as a team.
Maybe Derry have reached that level as well. If not, the individual superior merits of the Derry players will diminish as the game goes on and they will be beaten by a Monaghan team.
Monaghan have nothing to lose in this game. Nothing more is asked than they go out there and do themselves and their county proud.
The questions that will be answered on Sunday ...
Are Derry more of a TEAM than last year?
Have Derry serious injuries and will they count?
Have Derry added a different game plan other than 'Let 'er in to Paddy'
Have Monaghan still got the hunger or have the management voices dulled?
Is Eoin Lennon in form or not?
Have Monaghan added to the Jap and Tommy show?
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 19, 2009, 09:36:36 PM
Muldoon injury played down
Derry's Enda Muldoon
19 May 2009
Reports that Enda Muldoon has been ruled out of Sunday's Ulster SFC opener against Monaghan have been denied by Derry PRO Sean Gunning.
It was widely reported on Monday that the former All-Star broke a bone in his ankle during a weekend training camp in the Slieve Russell Hotel in Co. Cavan. It was believed to be a recurrence of the injury which ruled him out of Ballinderry's Ulster club football final replay defeat to Crossmaglen before Christmas, but this has been refuted by Gunning.
"As of now, he is not ruled in or out. There will have to be another check on the player before a decision is made," he said.
"He went over on the ankle alright, but there was no break. Damian Cassidy will give out his starting team at the Oak Leaf Restaurant on Tuesday night."
In the event of Muldoon not starting, Joe Diver is expected to come into midfield to partner his Bellaghy club colleague Fergal Doherty as Patsy Bradley is ruled out through injury and James has played little football since undergoing a groin operation.
The Oak Leaf management are also planning without injured defenders Sean Marty Lockhart and Niall McCusker.
Far too much secrecy and nonsense in the GAA. Don't know what they are all afraid of. Muldoon not in Derry team.
B Gillis; K McGuckin, K McCloy, G O'Kane; P Cartin, B McGoldrick, SL McGoldrick; F Doherty, J Diver; B McGuigan, P Murphy, E Lynn; E Bradley, P Bradley, J Kielt.
Exiled Gael, is the the team announced or is it your own suggestion?
Team was to be announced tonight
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 19, 2009, 11:05:18 PM
Team was to be announced tonight
Yeh i know do you know if EG's is the team that was named?
have not heard or seen anything yet. I would think it will be a standard line up - real team will line out on sunday.
Sounds like a damn good guess anyway
According to the bbc website exiledgaels team is that which was named last night. Muldoon not even on the bench but Lockhart is.
Derry: B Gillis; K McGuckin, K McCloy, G O'Kane; P Cartin, B McGoldrick, SL McGoldrick; F Doherty, J Diver; B McGuigan, P Murphy, E Lynn; E Bradley, Paddy Bradley, J Kielt.
Subs: J Deighan, D McBride, J Keenan, SM Lockhart, B Og McAlary, C McKaigue, J Conway, B Mullan, G McShane, P Young, S Bradley, M Lynch, E Brown, D Mulholland, C O'Boyle.
When are monaghan suppose to name their team?
Quote from: timmyot501 on May 20, 2009, 09:28:39 AM
When are monaghan suppose to name their team?
Today, apparently.
After getting this from Ulster GAA promoting new website and I went into the the matych info for this weekends games:
Ulster Senior Football Championship
Derry v Monaghan, Throw In 2.00pm at Celtic Park Derry
Ulster Minor Football Championship
Derry v Monaghan, Throw In 12.00pm at Celtic Park Derry
Official Re-Opening of Celtic Park will take place between the Minor and Senior games.
This is an All-Ticket Event – Valid Tickets will be required for entry.
Tickets available through County Boards
Derry: 028 7774 2990
Monaghan: 042 97 52033
Travel & Parking
Supporters are asked to allow extra time for their journey. It is recommended that they should arrive at the venue no later than 1.15pm.
Conventional Car Parks in the town centre will be available for use.
Patrons are advised to lock their cars and not leave valuables in sight.
Patrons should respect the residents in the area in respect of parking and litter.
Event Information
Gates will be open from 12.30pm
Patrons are asked to co-operate with stewards at all times and to adhere to the ground regulations, which will be printed in the match programme.
The're some pups... Minor game starting at 12 and gates not opening to 12.30pm. Lazy piece of copying and pasting me thinks?
Quote from: Joxer on May 20, 2009, 11:41:31 AM
Gates will be open from 12.30pm
Patrons are asked to co-operate with stewards at all times and to adhere to the ground regulations, which will be printed in the match programme.
The're some pups... Minor game starting at 12 and gates not opening to 12.30pm. Lazy piece of copying and pasting me thinks?
Lazy surely but why is the minor game starting two hours before the senior match? Surely 12 15 would have done? I always hate hanging around between the 2 matches. Does the minor championship go straight to extra time in the first round?
There will be extra time. Between the two matches the official opening of the new stand and pitch will take place.
Lynchboy...I haven't heard from you in a while. You going to the game? What do you think of the injury situatuion that is being reported
Crap. Thought this was a 3.30 throw in! Have to travel from Carlow on the morning of the match - an even earlier start than i had planned now.
Think this one is really hard to call.
Plusses for Derry are that playing at home in Celtic Pk they generally perform reasonably well and have generally got positive results. The new manager seems to have instilled greater belief and has established more options for covering injuries and loss of form. [TG as the list of injuries for Sun is as bad as i ever remember.]. There also seems to be a greater emphasis on playing to a team system rather tham as a collection of individuals.
Negatives for Derry are the injuries for Muldoon and McCusker in particular who are proven performers in championship football. Muldoon especially will be a big miss at midfield [no disrespect to Joe D] for ball winning and delivering quality passes. Also developments as listed above in belief, new players, tactics etc are relatively untested as they will undoubtedly be in the blazing white heat of championship action.
Monaghan seem to have a fairly clean bill of health and will be at near full strength for the game [JP Mone aside poss]. The purported loss of form by Eoin Lennon would be a big worry if accurate/not rectified.
Monaghan are proven championship performers over the past few years, i don't see this changing on Sunday. They will have a great sense of purpose which will mean they will contest every ball, a solid game plan which makes them very difficult to score against, and utilises the undoubted ability of their stand-out forward players. Generally they are sound tactiaclly during the game too, i cannot recall too many mistakes from Banty over the past few seasons.
For the result of the past 2 years to change Derry will need to exhibit a newfound sense of purpose and belief in their ability to deliver, plus a higher degree of tactical awareness along the line than on the last 2 occasions the teams met in c'ship. The series of glorified challenge games that the NFL has become is no longer a reliable indicator [if it ever was] of whether Derry has yet acquired these vital but ephemeral qualities, in the same way that it is no indicator of Monaghan's form.
In the belief [with zero evidence to back it up] that Derry have developed a greater degree of conviction over the past 6 months i'll give a hesitant vote to Derry. Winners by a point.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 20, 2009, 01:13:05 PM
Lynchboy...I haven't heard from you in a while. You going to the game? What do you think of the injury situatuion that is being reported
If Lynchboy does travel for the game, it will be with a heavy heart, laden with a foreboding.
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 20, 2009, 03:46:51 PM
Think this one is really hard to call.
Plusses for Derry are that playing at home in Celtic Pk they generally perform reasonably well and have generally got positive results. The new manager seems to have instilled greater belief and has established more options for covering injuries and loss of form. [TG as the list of injuries for Sun is as bad as i ever remember.]. There also seems to be a greater emphasis on playing to a team system rather tham as a collection of individuals.
Negatives for Derry are the injuries for Muldoon and McCusker in particular who are proven performers in championship football. Muldoon especially will be a big miss at midfield [no disrespect to Joe D] for ball winning and delivering quality passes. Also developments as listed above in belief, new players, tactics etc are relatively untested as they will undoubtedly be in the blazing white heat of championship action.
Monaghan seem to have a fairly clean bill of health and will be at near full strength for the game [JP Mone aside poss]. The purported loss of form by Eoin Lennon would be a big worry if accurate/not rectified.
Monaghan are proven championship performers over the past few years, i don't see this changing on Sunday. They will have a great sense of purpose which will mean they will contest every ball, a solid game plan which makes them very difficult to score against, and utilises the undoubted ability of their stand-out forward players. Generally they are sound tactiaclly during the game too, i cannot recall too many mistakes from Banty over the past few seasons.
For the result of the past 2 years to change Derry will need to exhibit a newfound sense of purpose and belief in their ability to deliver, plus a higher degree of tactical awareness along the line than on the last 2 occasions the teams met in c'ship. The series of glorified challenge games that the NFL has become is no longer a reliable indicator [if it ever was] of whether Derry has yet acquired these vital but ephemeral qualities, in the same way that it is no indicator of Monaghan's form.
In the belief [with zero evidence to back it up] that Derry have developed a greater degree of conviction over the past 6 months i'll give a hesitant vote to Derry. Winners by a point.
Kaiser you turned that piece on its head - i thought you where going to state that monaghan where the chamipionship team and they would win on sunday?
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 20, 2009, 11:27:04 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 20, 2009, 09:30:23 AM
Quote from: timmyot501 on May 20, 2009, 09:28:39 AM
When are monaghan suppose to name their team?
Today, apparently.
Don't 'houl' your breath..
That's according to today's Irish News, but yeah, it's a bit early for Banty!
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 20, 2009, 04:37:56 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 20, 2009, 03:46:51 PM
In the belief [with zero evidence to back it up] that Derry have developed a greater degree of conviction over the past 6 months i'll give a hesitant vote to Derry. Winners by a point.
Kaiser you turned that piece on its head - i thought you where going to state that monaghan where the chamipionship team and they would win on sunday?
But Keysir neglected to take into the reckoning that Monaghan have scored 2 points from 45´s this season, this is an entirely new phenomenon.
So that shaky hesitant one point win prediction for Derry has a 50% chance of being wiped out, should Monaghan get a 45.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 20, 2009, 01:13:05 PM
Lynchboy...I haven't heard from you in a while. You going to the game? What do you think of the injury situatuion that is being reported
I can't speak for Lynchboy but I can't see it being a problem. After all Cassidy has planned a system with this in mind and when ytou look closely at it, virtually no one was regulars. EG. how many games did Niall McCusker and Enda Muldoon and Mark Lynch play during the league?
As an Armagh man (totally neutral) I'm gonna tip Monaghan to win by 1-2pts. the reason for this i believe Derry have a few injury's to certain individuals and with Monaghan loosing in the 1st round last year they will be a bit more prepared...!!!
MS & TFAL. Please read that post again, i specifically stated that the league did not give any indication of what might happen in the championship!!
Don't make me have to speak to you again on this matter!! ;D
MS you mispelled my name. As i'm a newbie and i'm not entirely sure what the correct protocol is i'll keep everything shipshape by reporting you to the mods.
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2009, 05:01:15 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 20, 2009, 04:37:56 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 20, 2009, 03:46:51 PM
In the belief [with zero evidence to back it up] that Derry have developed a greater degree of conviction over the past 6 months i'll give a hesitant vote to Derry. Winners by a point.
Kaiser you turned that piece on its head - i thought you where going to state that monaghan where the chamipionship team and they would win on sunday?
But Keysir neglected to take into the reckoning that Monaghan have scored 2 points from 45´s this season, this is an entirely new phenomenon.
So that shaky hesitant one point win prediction for Derry has a 50% chance of being wiped out, should Monaghan get a 45.
:D
Yes, on fire with the 45s this year!
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2009, 05:01:15 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 20, 2009, 04:37:56 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 20, 2009, 03:46:51 PM
In the belief [with zero evidence to back it up] that Derry have developed a greater degree of conviction over the past 6 months i'll give a hesitant vote to Derry. Winners by a point.
Kaiser you turned that piece on its head - i thought you where going to state that monaghan where the chamipionship team and they would win on sunday?
But Keysir neglected to take into the reckoning that Monaghan have scored 2 points from 45´s this season, this is an entirely new phenomenon.
So that shaky hesitant one point win prediction for Derry has a 50% chance of being wiped out, should Monaghan get a 45.
But should Derry get a sideline ball from anywhere in the filed James Kielt or Eoin Bradley will slot it over ;)
QuoteBut should Derry get a sideline ball from anywhere in the filed James Kielt or Eoin Bradley will slot it over Wink
Maybe they will, but that's nothing new and it's already in 'all things considered'.
Whereas Monaghan demonstrating the ability to convert two 45's already in 2009 is a welcome bonus.
All I say is, that prediction of Derry by a point, is looking more threadbare, as more evidence is considered.
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
That sounds very close to 'butty boy'.
And manzie sounds like pansy.
And the japanese are no good at gaelic.
We're gonna kill yous
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
What the f**k is this shite???
Its code to confuse youse Derry ones.
It worked too!
You forgot to name "Biddy" on the square bandit! ;)
Don't you just love GAA nicknames
At least we have no Deccos or Dermos
and Dick is just Dick.
Quote from: tonesfirstandlast on May 20, 2009, 05:08:08 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 20, 2009, 01:13:05 PM
Lynchboy...I haven't heard from you in a while. You going to the game? What do you think of the injury situatuion that is being reported
I can't speak for Lynchboy but I can't see it being a problem. After all Cassidy has planned a system with this in mind and when ytou look closely at it, virtually no one was regulars. EG. how many games did Niall McCusker and Enda Muldoon and Mark Lynch play during the league?
That's not quite an accurate way to look at it.
All three of those would have been told to go away and get right for the championship.
Lynch and McCusker had Op's planned to be ready for the championship and Muldoon was being used sparingly to be fresh for the championship.
So there's not doubt it's a blow no matter what way you look at it or turn it.
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
You can't put Woods fullforward on McCloy - he'd love that size of man coming in to him. You need a smaller man in there to make him run.
I don't think D Freeman is worth his place anymore as a half back
Jap would cause more damage midfield I think
And I'd also play Darren Hughes centre back instead as he gives a more direct attacking option down the middle
But that aside it's not bad.
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2009, 09:48:19 PM
At least we have no Deccos or Dermos
and Dick is just Dick.
Yup
And if things go bad for him you just have to add an 'A'
Woods would probably drop out to the half-forward line leaving the two small men inside, would McCloy follow or would it be one of the corner-backs?
He'd probably stay in like he did last year.
Depends on the ball coming in.
Last year for the first 20 minutes he cleaned up - and busted Jinxy with a shoulder coming out once too - sent him horizontal!
Quote from: Logan on May 20, 2009, 10:22:50 PM
Last year for the first 20 minutes he cleaned up - and busted Jinxy with a shoulder coming out once too - sent him horizontal!
Hardly the hardest job in fairness! McCloy is an animal though and I reckon a smaller/faster player would get more change out of him. As I said earlier on this thread, he seems more comfortable on the big FF. I thought he done well against Donaghy any time he was again him.
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 20, 2009, 11:21:17 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 20, 2009, 10:22:50 PM
Last year for the first 20 minutes he cleaned up - and busted Jinxy with a shoulder coming out once too - sent him horizontal!
Hardly the hardest job in fairness! McCloy is an animal though and I reckon a smaller/faster player would get more change out of him. As I said earlier on this thread, he seems more comfortable on the big FF. I thought he done well against Donaghy any time he was again him.
MCloy was riddled with injury last year - had a terrible year - I think he has regained the form and is more confident again. should do the business on sunday.
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 20, 2009, 11:31:06 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 20, 2009, 11:21:17 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 20, 2009, 10:22:50 PM
Last year for the first 20 minutes he cleaned up - and busted Jinxy with a shoulder coming out once too - sent him horizontal!
Hardly the hardest job in fairness! McCloy is an animal though and I reckon a smaller/faster player would get more change out of him. As I said earlier on this thread, he seems more comfortable on the big FF. I thought he done well against Donaghy any time he was again him.
MCloy was riddled with injury last year - had a terrible year - I think he has regained the form and is more confident again. should do the business on sunday.
Agreed
Quote from: the green man on May 20, 2009, 08:39:25 PM
Don't you just love GAA nicknames
No, this team is just embarassing.
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
thebandit should be banned. I have reported this muck.
Anyhow, my Derry sources, including a high profile lurker (I shall post his PM anon) indicate that Derry are shoe-ins for this tie. I have been told to put my mortgage on Cass and the boys; there is apparently no way that Derry will lose three years in a row to the uncouth Farney men.
I fear, however, the arrogance of the London boys will come back to bite them on their bottoms.
Much as it pains me to say so (I am a purist after all and hate the common thuggery that permeates each Monaghan performance), Monaghan by two.
London aren't playing Saffron...
A loud mouthed snitch from Armagh preaching about purity, what next? ;D
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 20, 2009, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 20, 2009, 08:39:25 PM
Don't you just love GAA nicknames
No, this team is just embarassing.
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
thebandit should be banned. I have reported this muck.
Anyhow, my Derry sources, including a high profile lurker (I shall post his PM anon) indicate that Derry are shoe-ins for this tie. I have been told to put my mortgage on Cass and the boys; there is apparently no way that Derry will lose three years in a row to the uncouth Farney men.
I fear, however, the arrogance of the London boys will come back to bite them on their bottoms.
Much as it pains me to say so (I am a purist after all and hate the common thuggery that permeates each Monaghan performance), Monaghan by two.
you have to laugh at these boys who go on about their high profile internet sources :D
boys like saffron sam and max. clowns :D
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 20, 2009, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 20, 2009, 08:39:25 PM
Don't you just love GAA nicknames
No, this team is just embarassing.
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
thebandit should be banned. I have reported this muck.
Anyhow, my Derry sources, including a high profile lurker (I shall post his PM anon) indicate that Derry are shoe-ins for this tie. I have been told to put my mortgage on Cass and the boys; there is apparently no way that Derry will lose three years in a row to the uncouth Farney men.
I fear, however, the arrogance of the London boys will come back to bite them on their bottoms.
Much as it pains me to say so (I am a purist after all and hate the common thuggery that permeates each Monaghan performance), Monaghan by two.
Are you joking me?
You'd have to hope so!
What a muppet!!
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I "dick" a nickname?
Nope
Quote from: donelli on May 21, 2009, 10:25:05 AM
(http://www.derrygaa.ie/images/stories/New_Stand_Celtic_Park.jpg)
i received my season tickets for celtic park yesterday.
they are for section j.
assuming the first stair well sections start at A, it appears at J, we are tagged on at the very end about the 13 m line.
nice of the derry/ulster gaa to place the regulars on the end, while their cb/administrator mates take up the central seats... >:(
[/quote]
Can anyone confirm the layout of the stand?
Quote from: The GAA on May 21, 2009, 10:38:47 AM
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I "dick" a nickname?
D Hughes is not a nickname either GAA.
Does "downey" make quilts?
Is vinny someone's cousin?
I dont know if Vinny has any cousins. We aren't as close to our cousins as Derry people are.
Vinny is Joe Brolly's cousin!
Quote from: thebandit on May 21, 2009, 09:42:59 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 20, 2009, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 20, 2009, 08:39:25 PM
Don't you just love GAA nicknames
No, this team is just embarassing.
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
thebandit should be banned. I have reported this muck.
Anyhow, my Derry sources, including a high profile lurker (I shall post his PM anon) indicate that Derry are shoe-ins for this tie. I have been told to put my mortgage on Cass and the boys; there is apparently no way that Derry will lose three years in a row to the uncouth Farney men.
I fear, however, the arrogance of the London boys will come back to bite them on their bottoms.
Much as it pains me to say so (I am a purist after all and hate the common thuggery that permeates each Monaghan performance), Monaghan by two.
Are you joking me?
No, I'm not. This is supposed to be a serious thread that people with a genuine interest in the Championship should feel comfortable in. I have no idea who Butsy, Strimmer, Spindley, Jinxy, Jap or Manzie are. Hence the thread is ruined for those of us who don't know who you are talking about.
There are only two reasons why you might have posted the team the way you did.
1) to impress us all with your knowledge of Monaghan players' nicknames - I can't see an appearance on Mastermind with that. I'm not impressed, it reminds me of the time Brian Whelehan retired and some clampit on this board used his nickname (Sid, by the way) 32 times in his eulogy.
2) to deliberate confound any Derry men who may be reading this so that they can't tell Cass.
Neither reason is sufficient to justify how you named your team. It was repetitive and boring when ONeill did it with Tyrone teams. It's still the same when you do it.
You ever have a look at the Harps thread?? The nicknames there are ridiculous, you can only make out about three out of fifteen players its a joke.
I am in agreement can people post the players ACTUAL NAMES, but I admit you are cool for knowing their nicknames...
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 21, 2009, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: thebandit on May 21, 2009, 09:42:59 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 20, 2009, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 20, 2009, 08:39:25 PM
Don't you just love GAA nicknames
No, this team is just embarassing.
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
thebandit should be banned. I have reported this muck.
Anyhow, my Derry sources, including a high profile lurker (I shall post his PM anon) indicate that Derry are shoe-ins for this tie. I have been told to put my mortgage on Cass and the boys; there is apparently no way that Derry will lose three years in a row to the uncouth Farney men.
I fear, however, the arrogance of the London boys will come back to bite them on their bottoms.
Much as it pains me to say so (I am a purist after all and hate the common thuggery that permeates each Monaghan performance), Monaghan by two.
Are you joking me?
No, I'm not. This is supposed to be a serious thread that people with a genuine interest in the Championship should feel comfortable in. I have no idea who Butsy, Strimmer, Spindley, Jinxy, Jap or Manzie are. Hence the thread is ruined for those of us who don't know who you are talking about.
There are only two reasons why you might have posted the team the way you did.
1) to impress us all with your knowledge of Monaghan players' nicknames - I can't see an appearance on Mastermind with that. I'm not impressed, it reminds me of the time Brian Whelehan retired and some clampit on this board used his nickname (Sid, by the way) 32 times in his eulogy.
2) to deliberate confound any Derry men who may be reading this so that they can't tell Cass.
Neither reason is sufficient to justify how you named your team. It was repetitive and boring when ONeill did it with Tyrone teams. It's still the same when you do it.
Who is Cass?
agreed - nicknames is stoopid
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 21, 2009, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: thebandit on May 21, 2009, 09:42:59 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 20, 2009, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 20, 2009, 08:39:25 PM
Don't you just love GAA nicknames
No, this team is just embarassing.
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
thebandit should be banned. I have reported this muck.
Anyhow, my Derry sources, including a high profile lurker (I shall post his PM anon) indicate that Derry are shoe-ins for this tie. I have been told to put my mortgage on Cass and the boys; there is apparently no way that Derry will lose three years in a row to the uncouth Farney men.
I fear, however, the arrogance of the London boys will come back to bite them on their bottoms.
Much as it pains me to say so (I am a purist after all and hate the common thuggery that permeates each Monaghan performance), Monaghan by two.
Are you joking me?
No, I'm not. This is supposed to be a serious thread that people with a genuine interest in the Championship should feel comfortable in. I have no idea who Butsy, Strimmer, Spindley, Jinxy, Jap or Manzie are. Hence the thread is ruined for those of us who don't know who you are talking about.
There are only two reasons why you might have posted the team the way you did.
1) to impress us all with your knowledge of Monaghan players' nicknames - I can't see an appearance on Mastermind with that. I'm not impressed, it reminds me of the time Brian Whelehan retired and some clampit on this board used his nickname (Sid, by the way) 32 times in his eulogy.
2) to deliberate confound any Derry men who may be reading this so that they can't tell Cass.
Neither reason is sufficient to justify how you named your team. It was repetitive and boring when ONeill did it with Tyrone teams. It's still the same when you do it.
:D :D :D now your on pet name terms with him :D :D...after all the mud slinging that you have given him on here, you have some nerve on ye. Bold as brass!!! :o :o
Some people are easily wound up!
Saffron Sam, under what rule did you report this one?
Is Cass a nickname? :o
I'm sure your sources would know the Monaghan team
The idea that this 'Cass' is relying on the GAABoard for his preparations, and that thebandit is scuppering his plans... priceless!
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 01:31:12 PM
The idea that this 'Cass' is relying on the GAABoard for his preparations, and that thebandit is scuppering his plans... priceless!
Another glaring example of subversive/cynical/dirty/"insert exaggerated comment here" by the Monaghan men..
Quote from: thebandit on May 21, 2009, 11:44:15 AM
I dont know if Vinny has any cousins. We aren't as close to our cousins as Derry people are.
think in recent years stories have emerged to show up that yer on VERY shaky (if not ironic) ground there !
its great to see that on the odd occasion some people usually concerned with upholding the rights of orange order marching bands etc can finally jump into GAA related threads and at least pretend they are interested in football, even if they know very little or nothing about it ! ;) :D
Do people not realise SS2 is one of the biggest WUMs on the board, he'll be loving how some folk are taking him seriously!
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 21, 2009, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 21, 2009, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: thebandit on May 21, 2009, 09:42:59 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 20, 2009, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 20, 2009, 08:39:25 PM
Don't you just love GAA nicknames
No, this team is just embarassing.
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
thebandit should be banned. I have reported this muck.
Anyhow, my Derry sources, including a high profile lurker (I shall post his PM anon) indicate that Derry are shoe-ins for this tie. I have been told to put my mortgage on Cass and the boys; there is apparently no way that Derry will lose three years in a row to the uncouth Farney men.
I fear, however, the arrogance of the London boys will come back to bite them on their bottoms.
Much as it pains me to say so (I am a purist after all and hate the common thuggery that permeates each Monaghan performance), Monaghan by two.
Are you joking me?
No, I'm not. This is supposed to be a serious thread that people with a genuine interest in the Championship should feel comfortable in. I have no idea who Butsy, Strimmer, Spindley, Jinxy, Jap or Manzie are. Hence the thread is ruined for those of us who don't know who you are talking about.
There are only two reasons why you might have posted the team the way you did.
1) to impress us all with your knowledge of Monaghan players' nicknames - I can't see an appearance on Mastermind with that. I'm not impressed, it reminds me of the time Brian Whelehan retired and some clampit on this board used his nickname (Sid, by the way) 32 times in his eulogy.
2) to deliberate confound any Derry men who may be reading this so that they can't tell Cass.
Neither reason is sufficient to justify how you named your team. It was repetitive and boring when ONeill did it with Tyrone teams. It's still the same when you do it.
:D :D :D now your on pet name terms with him :D :D...after all the mud slinging that you have given him on here, you have some nerve on ye. Bold as brass!!! :o :o
SS2 , nothing to say...highly irregular :D
Quote from: Rav67 on May 21, 2009, 01:42:34 PM
Do people not realise SS2 is one of the biggest WUMs on the board, he'll be loving how some folk are taking him seriously!
Exactly, if he wasn't a WUM then we would have to consider the other possibility which is just too scary to contemplate.
Quote from: The GAA on May 21, 2009, 11:29:39 AM
Does "downey" make quilts?
Is vinny someone's cousin?
Obviously, if Viny was someone's cousin, he would be 5ft nothing :)
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 01:31:12 PM
The idea that this 'Cass' is relying on the GAABoard for his preparations, and that thebandit is scuppering his plans... priceless!
I have half a notion to report him for calling Damien Cassidy 'Cass'
I had this vision of Tony Cascarino picking the Derry team :D
Derry are still steady medium hot favourites to win this gig.
4/7 Derry as opposed to Monaghan's outside chance of 2/1.
I suspect Derry would have been even hotter favourites but for the lack of belief from memory scarred Derry fans who punt.
I am very calm about this fixture, in the knowledge that behind any confidence displayed here by Derry fans, many bricks have been shat.
Also in the knowledge that Banty wants the triple crown so bad he has been charging up the Monaghan batteries to bubbling point, it's Play or Die time.
The diference is Derry are quite familiar with the Monaghan team but Monaghan wouldn't quite as familiar this Derry team had had an overhaul with 2/3 of the team from the last day not playing.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 02:51:08 PM
The diference is Derry are quite familiar with the Monaghan team but this Derry team had had an overhaul with 2/3 of the team from the last day not playing.
So.... that would mean only a third of the Derry players on Sunday are familar with the Monaghan team, and it's the management first meeting with them. They can have it drilled into them every training about Monaghan but at the end of the day it's up to the players and Derry have 4 championship debutants there, can they match the intensity of their markers, and will they stand up and be counted if/when the shit hits the fan?
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2009, 12:45:48 AM
A loud mouthed snitch from Armagh preaching about purity, what next? ;D
Who was that Main Street???
It's beneath my sense of purity to name the culprit.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12088.msg549652#msg549652 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12088.msg549652#msg549652)
Quote from: Schkite on May 21, 2009, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 02:51:08 PM
The diference is Derry are quite familiar with the Monaghan team but this Derry team had had an overhaul with 2/3 of the team from the last day not playing.
So.... that would mean only a third of the Derry players on Sunday are familar with the Monaghan team, and it's the management first meeting with them.
:D
That's just blown Oakleafer's observation out of the water!
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 04:19:25 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 21, 2009, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 02:51:08 PM
The diference is Derry are quite familiar with the Monaghan team but this Derry team had had an overhaul with 2/3 of the team from the last day not playing.
So.... that would mean only a third of the Derry players on Sunday are familar with the Monaghan team, and it's the management first meeting with them.
:D
That's just blown Oakleafer's observation out of the water!
Not really, because they know the tactics that Monaghan are likely to employ on the Bradleys etc but the don't know how Kielt and the Mc Goldricks will perform.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 04:19:25 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 21, 2009, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 02:51:08 PM
The diference is Derry are quite familiar with the Monaghan team but this Derry team had had an overhaul with 2/3 of the team from the last day not playing.
So.... that would mean only a third of the Derry players on Sunday are familar with the Monaghan team, and it's the management first meeting with them.
:D
That's just blown Oakleafer's observation out of the water!
Not really, because they know the tactics that Monaghan are likely to employ on the Bradleys etc but the don't know how Kielt and the Mc Goldricks will perform.
But Monaghan may well employ totally different tactics on the Bradleys.... and we've all seen Kielt etc in operation during the league, so maybe we could have an insight into Derry's tactics in that respect...
Basically i don't think one team has any distinct advantage over the other in relation to knowledge of the opposition.
How do they know how Monaghan will deal with Eoin Bradley? I'd say they don't have a clue as it will be someone marking him that hasn't before. The real question is how will Derry deal with Finlay, that will be a new experience for them.
Maguire's right though, all this talk means nothing and I'm sure both management teams are at a level footing in terms of knowing the other team's play.
They better do better than last year on him
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 05:32:03 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 04:19:25 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 21, 2009, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 02:51:08 PM
The diference is Derry are quite familiar with the Monaghan team but this Derry team had had an overhaul with 2/3 of the team from the last day not playing.
So.... that would mean only a third of the Derry players on Sunday are familar with the Monaghan team, and it's the management first meeting with them.
:D
That's just blown Oakleafer's observation out of the water!
Not really, because they know the tactics that Monaghan are likely to employ on the Bradleys etc but the don't know how Kielt and the Mc Goldricks will perform.
But Monaghan may well employ totally different tactics on the Bradleys.... and we've all seen Kielt etc in operation during the league, so maybe we could have an insight into Derry's tactics in that respect...
Basically i don't think one team has any distinct advantage over the other in relation to knowledge of the opposition.
In fairness to OL93 I can see Derry having a bit more potential to spring a surprise, in terms of tactics/system whatever you want to call it. Its not much of a factor but still could make a difference, especially as Cassidy's bench has seen plenty of action in the league. We might just be a bit more flexible. Monaghan are a seasoned team and their style is well known on the other hand. The new Derry panel will at least be familiar with the Monaghan players from seeing them in action over the past few years, even I am fairly familiar with most of them whereas even a lot of Derry people arent too familiar with our HB and HF lines for instance. Exploiting this knowledge is a different matter though, hope Cass can a see a way to get at Monaghan and get it through to the players. Easier said than done.
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 21, 2009, 07:28:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 05:32:03 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 04:19:25 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 21, 2009, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 02:51:08 PM
The diference is Derry are quite familiar with the Monaghan team but this Derry team had had an overhaul with 2/3 of the team from the last day not playing.
So.... that would mean only a third of the Derry players on Sunday are familar with the Monaghan team, and it's the management first meeting with them.
:D
That's just blown Oakleafer's observation out of the water!
Not really, because they know the tactics that Monaghan are likely to employ on the Bradleys etc but the don't know how Kielt and the Mc Goldricks will perform.
But Monaghan may well employ totally different tactics on the Bradleys.... and we've all seen Kielt etc in operation during the league, so maybe we could have an insight into Derry's tactics in that respect...
Basically i don't think one team has any distinct advantage over the other in relation to knowledge of the opposition.
In fairness to OL93 I can see Derry having a bit more potential to spring a surprise, in terms of tactics/system whatever you want to call it. Its not much of a factor but still could make a difference, especially as Cassidy's bench has seen plenty of action in the league. We might just be a bit more flexible. Monaghan are a seasoned team and their style is well known on the other hand. The new Derry panel will at least be familiar with the Monaghan players from seeing them in action over the past few years, even I am fairly familiar with most of them whereas even a lot of Derry people arent too familiar with our HB and HF lines for instance. Exploiting this knowledge is a different matter though, hope Cass can a see a way to get at Monaghan and get it through to the players. Easier said than done.
Here, you're just asking to be reported!
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 21, 2009, 12:36:05 PM
2) to deliberate confound any Derry men who may be reading this so that they can't tell Cass.
I put this into babelfish but still no luck. Can anyone translate it?
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on May 21, 2009, 12:46:12 PM
You ever have a look at the Harps thread?? The nicknames there are ridiculous, you can only make out about three out of fifteen players its a joke.
I am in agreement can people post the players ACTUAL NAMES, but I admit you are cool for knowing their nicknames...
Harps match reports are awful for nicknames. I tried to read about the exploits of Nippy, Ebby et al. but it just got too much.
Quote from: The GAA on May 21, 2009, 01:05:27 PM
agreed - nicknames is stoopid
Thank you.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 01:20:24 PM
Some people are easily wound up!
Saffron Sam, under what rule did you report this one?
I didn't know there were rules. Deserved to be reported for wasting the time of neutrals who happened upon this thread.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 21, 2009, 02:10:05 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 21, 2009, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 21, 2009, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: thebandit on May 21, 2009, 09:42:59 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 20, 2009, 11:50:19 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 20, 2009, 08:39:25 PM
Don't you just love GAA nicknames
No, this team is just embarassing.
Quote from: thebandit on May 20, 2009, 05:52:28 PM
Monaghan team (my prediction)
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
I dont think JP will start, so Vinny to full back.
thebandit should be banned. I have reported this muck.
Anyhow, my Derry sources, including a high profile lurker (I shall post his PM anon) indicate that Derry are shoe-ins for this tie. I have been told to put my mortgage on Cass and the boys; there is apparently no way that Derry will lose three years in a row to the uncouth Farney men.
I fear, however, the arrogance of the London boys will come back to bite them on their bottoms.
Much as it pains me to say so (I am a purist after all and hate the common thuggery that permeates each Monaghan performance), Monaghan by two.
Are you joking me?
No, I'm not. This is supposed to be a serious thread that people with a genuine interest in the Championship should feel comfortable in. I have no idea who Butsy, Strimmer, Spindley, Jinxy, Jap or Manzie are. Hence the thread is ruined for those of us who don't know who you are talking about.
There are only two reasons why you might have posted the team the way you did.
1) to impress us all with your knowledge of Monaghan players' nicknames - I can't see an appearance on Mastermind with that. I'm not impressed, it reminds me of the time Brian Whelehan retired and some clampit on this board used his nickname (Sid, by the way) 32 times in his eulogy.
2) to deliberate confound any Derry men who may be reading this so that they can't tell Cass.
Neither reason is sufficient to justify how you named your team. It was repetitive and boring when ONeill did it with Tyrone teams. It's still the same when you do it.
:D :D :D now your on pet name terms with him :D :D...after all the mud slinging that you have given him on here, you have some nerve on ye. Bold as brass!!! :o :o
SS2 , nothing to say...highly irregular :D
I recently met the former Sarsfield's player and he mentioned that I could call him Cass. No real mystery. You will, like others have spotted the use of a nickname in a post where I was giving off about nicknames. Well done. No flies on any of you.
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2009, 04:18:32 PM
It's beneath my sense of purity to name the culprit.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12088.msg549652#msg549652 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12088.msg549652#msg549652)
This bit has me well confused. Any chance of making it a bit clearer. Are you suggesting I am an Armagh man? If so, well done - you win a prize. Twit of the week.
Anyhow, back to the game. Still Monaghan by 2.
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on May 21, 2009, 12:46:12 PM
You ever have a look at the Harps thread?? The nicknames there are ridiculous, you can only make out about three out of fifteen players its a joke.
Eh yeh well...........the Gaelic Life liked it! :-\
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 21, 2009, 07:28:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 05:32:03 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 04:19:25 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 21, 2009, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 02:51:08 PM
The diference is Derry are quite familiar with the Monaghan team but this Derry team had had an overhaul with 2/3 of the team from the last day not playing.
So.... that would mean only a third of the Derry players on Sunday are familar with the Monaghan team, and it's the management first meeting with them.
:D
That's just blown Oakleafer's observation out of the water!
Not really, because they know the tactics that Monaghan are likely to employ on the Bradleys etc but the don't know how Kielt and the Mc Goldricks will perform.
But Monaghan may well employ totally different tactics on the Bradleys.... and we've all seen Kielt etc in operation during the league, so maybe we could have an insight into Derry's tactics in that respect...
Basically i don't think one team has any distinct advantage over the other in relation to knowledge of the opposition.
In fairness to OL93 I can see Derry having a bit more potential to spring a surprise, in terms of tactics/system whatever you want to call it. Its not much of a factor but still could make a difference, especially as Cassidy's bench has seen plenty of action in the league. We might just be a bit more flexible. Monaghan are a seasoned team and their style is well known on the other hand. The new Derry panel will at least be familiar with the Monaghan players from seeing them in action over the past few years, even I am fairly familiar with most of them whereas even a lot of Derry people arent too familiar with our HB and HF lines for instance. Exploiting this knowledge is a different matter though, hope Cass can a see a way to get at Monaghan and get it through to the players. Easier said than done.
I don't see much sense in that post.
Cassidys bench has seen plenty of action? - You're using that as a reason to be optimistic? Not that the bench isn't important - I'd be more worried about the guys missing from the starting 15.
Flexible? I'm not sure you can say that as though it was planned either, men getting injured etc.
Also - I'm yet to be convinced by Cassidy yet. All his huff and puff about Championship has yet to be proven. He's not unearthed any great talent that wasn't there in 08 - apart from Kielt who I think was drafted in last year at the end if I remember correctly?
The two things I will give him credit for though are introducing Barry McGoldrick to centre back which might work well and getting more out of Eoin Bradley.
If Derry win I expect those two to have a major say in the game.
His test comes on Sunday.
As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 21, 2009, 08:38:55 PM
This bit has me well confused. Any chance of making it a bit clearer. Are you suggesting I am an Armagh man? If so, well done - you win a prize. Twit of the week.
At least you had the honesty not to be confused about the 'loudmouth snitch' label ;D
Anyway, if this entertainment for you, you're a walking tragedy from God knows where.
Quote from: Logan on May 21, 2009, 08:53:04 PM
As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.
I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2009, 09:08:20 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 21, 2009, 08:38:55 PM
This bit has me well confused. Any chance of making it a bit clearer. Are you suggesting I am an Armagh man? If so, well done - you win a prize. Twit of the week.
At least you had the honesty not to be confused about the 'loudmouth snitch' label ;D
Anyway, if this entertainment for you, you're a walking tragedy from God knows where.
One out of three is an achievement. Again, well done.
Despite your intellect, my original point remains. The team posted in the way thebandit posted it is embarrassing.
Serious discussion about Sunday's game would be entertaining for me, but how can it be serious (or indeed entertaining) if a relatively well-informed Gael like myself is excluded.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 09:09:01 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 21, 2009, 08:53:04 PM
As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.
I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.
There was a distinct air of 'just getting back into gear', about that 1st round qualifier last year.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 09:09:01 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 21, 2009, 08:53:04 PM
As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.
I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.
Last year Monaghan were training at 99 miles an hour and got caught on the hop by ignoring Fermanagh's ability.
The took some time off got fresh and got up for the next game - Derry were still in shock after the Fermangh game (only trained twice between games) and Monaghan brought a higher level of intensity than Derry to Clones.
Derry will be alot fresher this Sunday.
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2009, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 09:09:01 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 21, 2009, 08:53:04 PM
As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.
I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.
There was a distinct air of 'just getting back into gear', about that 1st round qualifier last year.
Not to mentioned McElkennon had killed Monaghan and burned them out completely that winter and they were dead on their feet for the Fermanagh game.
I suppose he was under a little pressure having just gone full time and had to justify the wages, but he did overtrain them.
Quote from: Logan on May 21, 2009, 08:53:04 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 21, 2009, 07:28:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 05:32:03 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 04:19:25 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 21, 2009, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 21, 2009, 02:51:08 PM
The diference is Derry are quite familiar with the Monaghan team but this Derry team had had an overhaul with 2/3 of the team from the last day not playing.
So.... that would mean only a third of the Derry players on Sunday are familar with the Monaghan team, and it's the management first meeting with them.
:D
That's just blown Oakleafer's observation out of the water!
Not really, because they know the tactics that Monaghan are likely to employ on the Bradleys etc but the don't know how Kielt and the Mc Goldricks will perform.
But Monaghan may well employ totally different tactics on the Bradleys.... and we've all seen Kielt etc in operation during the league, so maybe we could have an insight into Derry's tactics in that respect...
Basically i don't think one team has any distinct advantage over the other in relation to knowledge of the opposition.
In fairness to OL93 I can see Derry having a bit more potential to spring a surprise, in terms of tactics/system whatever you want to call it. Its not much of a factor but still could make a difference, especially as Cassidy's bench has seen plenty of action in the league. We might just be a bit more flexible. Monaghan are a seasoned team and their style is well known on the other hand. The new Derry panel will at least be familiar with the Monaghan players from seeing them in action over the past few years, even I am fairly familiar with most of them whereas even a lot of Derry people arent too familiar with our HB and HF lines for instance. Exploiting this knowledge is a different matter though, hope Cass can a see a way to get at Monaghan and get it through to the players. Easier said than done.
I don't see much sense in that post.
Cassidys bench has seen plenty of action? - You're using that as a reason to be optimistic? Not that the bench isn't important - I'd be more worried about the guys missing from the starting 15.
Flexible? I'm not sure you can say that as though it was planned either, men getting injured etc.
Also - I'm yet to be convinced by Cassidy yet. All his huff and puff about Championship has yet to be proven. He's not unearthed any great talent that wasn't there in 08 - apart from Kielt who I think was drafted in last year at the end if I remember correctly?
The two things I will give him credit for though are introducing Barry McGoldrick to centre back which might work well and getting more out of Eoin Bradley.
If Derry win I expect those two to have a major say in the game.
His test comes on Sunday.
As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.
Think you might have took me up wrong. I was just saying that the Derry panel has seen plenty of action and in a wide variety of positions (moreso than the Monaghan panel IMO) so Cassidy has plenty of options in selecting players, i.e. he has more flexibility in his options. I think this is a small factor as I said but it could be crucial as we have the potential to adapt our game, the team this year seems to be more versatile, e.g. barry mcguigan, the mcgoldricks could switch between several different positions no bother. This is the way the top teams are going, the flexibility of the Tyrone team is a case in point. Im not sure what made you think that i said the injuries were planned, obviously they werent. But we have very good cover for positions this year.
On the other side of the coin you could say that Monaghan have the more experienced, well drilled gameplan with their settled first 15, nevertheless whether you interpret it as advantageous for one side or the other it is a factor.
You talk about unearthing talent, I think this is very much 2nd to establishing a well drilled, tactically adept team. We have had a crop of talented enough individuals to go for an Ulster title for the past few years IMO - it is getting them to work as a unit that was the problem. Their are plenty of new faces this year that show signs of slotting into quietly effective team roles, and yes I know, league means little, but sure thats what you have to go on reading into a first round tie.
Not long until Sunday now folks, and the game we've all been waiting for. Forget Tyrone or Dublin in the league, or Kerry in the league final - this is the big one.
Well one of the big ones anyway (hopefully).
We're hampered with injuries alright, but it's still a solid looking Derry team.
Kielt in the forwards was the one big decision that had to be made imo. McGuigan could have been named here, with Mullan at wing-forward, but Kielt has got the nod. Seamy Bradley and Brown were other options, but they would have been too much of a risk.
I see some on here were thinking that Kielt may have been named at wing-forward, but if you rewind back to the Tyrone game in Omagh, this particular experiment didn't work at all. McGuigan will play the link role effectively as he can play in either half-back or half-forward line.
It all points to Kielt playing inside along with Paddy Bradley. Whether this means Derry will play a more direct game at times remains to be seen. Skinner* will more than likely provide attacking impetus on the '40. Running through the middle is one way of putting a blanket defence on the back foot (Down did it on sunday in the first half to reasonable effect, before abandoning this tactic for some reason). Hopefully skinner* can do the business. He has been absolutely superb so far this year.
As for the defence, who will pick up who - it will depend on what side Monaghan name I suppose. G O'kane could be tasked with marking Freeman, but he's not really a natural man-marker. It might be better if he follows the likes of Woods out the pitch.
Good to see Damian Cassidy getitng the team named early in the week - shows confidence. This nonsense of naming fake teams, and supposedly keeping the opposition guessing helps no-one. Again, look at Down last weekend.
Really looking forward to the game. We need a totally different approach from the last couple of years. We need to be cuter, and literally get into Monaghan's faces. They'll be entering Celtic Park with something of a siege mentality; we need to kick it out of them!!
*Eoin Bradley
I'd rather see O'kane out the field too.
Last year the second year he turned the game when he attacked.
I don't understand this nonsense of saying one of the Bradleys need to come out to the 40!
Eoin Bradley needs to stay closer to the goal than the 40 - Look at his good games this years - always been at or near FF this year AND he's scoring too.
I'd leave the two boys inside and let it in to them. Look at Donegal last year, Kerry last year - even the first half against Kerry this year. Playing the two best forwards you have further away from the goal is just retarded.
Bring either of them out to the 40 and the ball will only go to the brother, time after time they'll look for each other. Leave the too boys inside. That'll be enough to give the Moens and Corey heart palpitations.
Quote from: Logan on May 21, 2009, 09:44:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2009, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 09:09:01 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 21, 2009, 08:53:04 PM
As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.
I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.
There was a distinct air of 'just getting back into gear', about that 1st round qualifier last year.
Not to mentioned McElkennon had killed Monaghan and burned them out completely that winter and they were dead on their feet for the Fermanagh game.
I suppose he was under a little pressure having just gone full time and had to justify the wages, but he did overtrain them.
You say McElkennon had gone full time, what do you mean by that? Is he officially employed by the Monaghan Co board?
Lookin forward to this game as a neutral more than any other. We have serial chokers Derry against the Fearless Farney Fisticuffers.
Derry are a rare breed of player. They appear to have all the ingredients but when mashed together they come loose at the edges, around 55 mins. Since the 70s, Derry have churned out at least one Anglo-Celt a decade yet time is running out. It is 11 years since their last although their previous barren period was also of the same length, 76-87.
So, what's their problem? Well, with this team it's the Bradleys. They're simply not team players and have always given me the overriding impression that they're in it for personal glory above team ethic. No manager will knock that out of them. Unfortunately they are the best forwards Derry have and until Derry can find 1-2 scoring forwards of equal or better talent than the Glenuillin moochers then their reliance on Paddy and Eoin will see to it that their barren run continues. Muldoon, the false God, simply hasn't the temperament to turn or influence big games on the big stage, no matter what the Sperrin lads would have you believe. He'll churn out the odd good 60 mins for his club but that's it. McCloy's arse is far too big and is feeding off one decent year, a bit like Lyng of Cavan. Big Fergal Doherty is a bit one-dimensional, albeit a decent ginger player and they have a plethora of nondescript defenders (Tyrone-lite) who'll nullify the likes of Liam McBarron or Ronan Sexton but will be caught like a badger in the headlights too easily.
Monaghan are good.
Derry 2-12 Monaghan 2-12
Quote from: loughshore lad on May 21, 2009, 10:55:34 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 21, 2009, 09:44:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2009, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 21, 2009, 09:09:01 PM
Quote from: Logan on May 21, 2009, 08:53:04 PM
As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.
I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.
There was a distinct air of 'just getting back into gear', about that 1st round qualifier last year.
Not to mentioned McElkennon had killed Monaghan and burned them out completely that winter and they were dead on their feet for the Fermanagh game.
I suppose he was under a little pressure having just gone full time and had to justify the wages, but he did overtrain them.
You say McElkennon had gone full time, what do you mean by that? Is he officially employed by the Monaghan Co board?
No
He's the full time trainer for the Monaghan County team
Doesn't everyone know that? Thought it was common knowledge now across the province.
For the past 2 years some business men have been paying him £3,100 a month (50k a year) to train Monaghan full time.
Of course that get's the county board out of the loop.
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2009, 11:17:32 PM
Lookin forward to this game as a neutral more than any other. We have serial chokers Derry against the Fearless Farney Fisticuffers.
Derry are a rare breed of player. They appear to have all the ingredients but when mashed together they come loose at the edges, around 55 mins. Since the 70s, Derry have churned out at least one Anglo-Celt a decade yet time is running out. It is 11 years since their last although their previous barren period was also of the same length, 76-87.
So, what's their problem? Well, with this team it's the Bradleys. They're simply not team players and have always given me the overriding impression that they're in it for personal glory above team ethic. No manager will knock that out of them. Unfortunately they are the best forwards Derry have and until Derry can find 1-2 scoring forwards of equal or better talent than the Glenuillin moochers then their reliance on Paddy and Eoin will see to it that their barren run continues. Muldoon, the false God, simply hasn't the temperament to turn or influence big games on the big stage, no matter what the Sperrin lads would have you believe. He'll churn out the odd good 60 mins for his club but that's it. McCloy's arse is far too big and is feeding off one decent year, a bit like Lyng of Cavan. Big Fergal Doherty is a bit one-dimensional, albeit a decent ginger player and they have a plethora of nondescript defenders (Tyrone-lite) who'll nullify the likes of Liam McBarron or Ronan Sexton but will be caught like a badger in the headlights too easily.
Monaghan are good.
Derry 2-12 Monaghan 2-12
Too much uninformed bullsh*t there for a detailed response ...
Briefly -
- Bradleys have been greedy before, but over the past 2 years have been excellent county players
- Muldoon has some injuries that limit him and doesn't owe Derry or anyone anything
- Fergal Doherty has been probably one of the outstanding midfielders of the past 5 years in Ulster- Last years league final seems distant for many.
- McCloy is as lean a player as you'll get and last year had a poor year since he was carrying 3 serious injuries and probably shouldn't have played at all
Ah catch a grip of reality. The Bradleys and the overdependence on their individual talent is the one reason why Derry haven't even smelt the burgers on an Ulster final day since 2000. Paddy can rack up 3-13 against Wexford but will throw the head up when you most need him.
No player owes anyone anything but Muldoon never delivered. All I remember is a catch he made in 1998 I think against Galway.
McCloy is too ponderous and flat-footed with the big arse.
Fergal Doherty may be the all-action guy but is undeniably predictable. Elbows Tohill could catch a ball in his own square and pop up a minute later with a grass-cutter to the back of the onion bag.
Your one hope is Cassidy. He has the Midas touch. To take Clonoe to an O'Neill Cup was close to miraculous and in time that achievement will receive its full recognition. This year highlighted even more with the O'Rahillys kicking their heels in May.
Cassidy knows how to win games with any outfit. He's a bit like Malachy O'Rourke but with better resources. If O'Rourke can bring Fermanagh to the fingernails of an Ulster, Cassidy can get the most out of a sow's ear.
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2009, 11:55:44 PM
Ah catch a grip of reality. The Bradleys and the overdependence on their individual talent is the one reason why Derry haven't even smelt the burgers on an Ulster final day since 2000. Paddy can rack up 3-13 against Wexford but will throw the head up when you most need him.
No player owes anyone anything but Muldoon never delivered. All I remember is a catch he made in 1998 I think against Galway.
McCloy is too ponderous and flat-footed with the big arse.
Fergal Doherty may be the all-action guy but is undeniably predictable. Elbows Tohill could catch a ball in his own square and pop up a minute later with a grass-cutter to the back of the onion bag.
Your one hope is Cassidy. He has the Midas touch. To take Clonoe to an O'Neill Cup was close to miraculous and in time that achievement will receive its full recognition. This year highlighted even more with the O'Rahillys kicking their heels in May.
Cassidy knows how to win games with any outfit. He's a bit like Malachy O'Rourke but with better resources. If O'Rourke can bring Fermanagh to the fingernails of an Ulster, Cassidy can get the most out of a sow's ear.
Very misinformed
If you think McCloy has a big arse you're blind. Castigating Doherty because he's not Tohill is irrelevant.
To slate Muldoon without knowing the injuries the man has is again ignorant
Last year was an excellent year for Cassidy at club level, but he was with Clonoe this year too - shows how much you know.
He has it all to prove at inter-county level. I suspect the hard hitting passion, blood and guts, ignoramus approach, will only get them so far. Ulster title max.
Then again the tone suggests you're happy in your world.
Quote from: Logan on May 22, 2009, 12:14:05 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2009, 11:55:44 PM
Ah catch a grip of reality. The Bradleys and the overdependence on their individual talent is the one reason why Derry haven't even smelt the burgers on an Ulster final day since 2000. Paddy can rack up 3-13 against Wexford but will throw the head up when you most need him.
No player owes anyone anything but Muldoon never delivered. All I remember is a catch he made in 1998 I think against Galway.
McCloy is too ponderous and flat-footed with the big arse.
Fergal Doherty may be the all-action guy but is undeniably predictable. Elbows Tohill could catch a ball in his own square and pop up a minute later with a grass-cutter to the back of the onion bag.
Your one hope is Cassidy. He has the Midas touch. To take Clonoe to an O'Neill Cup was close to miraculous and in time that achievement will receive its full recognition. This year highlighted even more with the O'Rahillys kicking their heels in May.
Cassidy knows how to win games with any outfit. He's a bit like Malachy O'Rourke but with better resources. If O'Rourke can bring Fermanagh to the fingernails of an Ulster, Cassidy can get the most out of a sow's ear.
Very misinformed
If you think McCloy has a big arse you're blind. Castigating Doherty because he's not Tohill is irrelevant.
To slate Muldoon without knowing the injuries the man has is again ignorant
Last year was an excellent year for Cassidy at club level, but he was with Clonoe this year too - shows how much you know.
He has it all to prove at inter-county level. I suspect the hard hitting passion, blood and guts, ignoramus approach, will only get them so far. Ulster title max.
Then again the tone suggests you're happy in your world.
I thought 'twas Geoffrey manning the big square for youse against Kerry.
Listen, stand back.
To observe is not to slate (Browning). Muldoon's injuries are not part of the equation. Why are you playing an injured man anyway? As for McCloy's big arse, I met him at Lavey 2 weeks ago at the La thingy day. I asked him about his arse and he said he gets it from his mother's father's side and no matter the weight loss, the arse will always be a hindrance to turning on a sixpence.
Cassidy wanted nowt to do with Clonoe this year. He just turned up the odd time to clap them on.
Kielt's your man. He's a fellow of real talent. I was amazed at the stick he was getting in Healy Park. This man, barely out of minor, has more talent in his pinky left toe than the entire Derry half forward line before him.
Good man ONeill - You certainly know how to fire out the bait!!
Quote from: Estimator on May 22, 2009, 08:04:19 AM
Good man ONeill - You certainly know how to fire out the bait!!
People also forget that he's a complete tw*t as well.
Quote from: Logan on May 22, 2009, 12:14:05 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2009, 11:55:44 PM
McCloy is too ponderous and flat-footed with the big arse.
If you think McCloy has a big arse you're blind.
Now we're getting to the important issues. ::)
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 21, 2009, 09:35:51 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2009, 09:08:20 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 21, 2009, 08:38:55 PM
This bit has me well confused. Any chance of making it a bit clearer. Are you suggesting I am an Armagh man? If so, well done - you win a prize. Twit of the week.
At least you had the honesty not to be confused about the 'loudmouth snitch' label ;D
Anyway, if this entertainment for you, you're a walking tragedy from God knows where.
One out of three is an achievement. Again, well done.
Despite your intellect, my original point remains. The team posted in the way thebandit posted it is embarrassing.
Serious discussion about Sunday's game would be entertaining for me, but how can it be serious (or indeed entertaining) if a relatively well-informed Gael like myself is excluded.
What aout calling the Derry manager 'Cass'
You are probably excluded because its very hard to see you up there on your high horse.
Quote from: Logan on May 22, 2009, 12:14:05 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2009, 11:55:44 PM
Ah catch a grip of reality. The Bradleys and the overdependence on their individual talent is the one reason why Derry haven't even smelt the burgers on an Ulster final day since 2000. Paddy can rack up 3-13 against Wexford but will throw the head up when you most need him.
No player owes anyone anything but Muldoon never delivered. All I remember is a catch he made in 1998 I think against Galway.
McCloy is too ponderous and flat-footed with the big arse.
Fergal Doherty may be the all-action guy but is undeniably predictable. Elbows Tohill could catch a ball in his own square and pop up a minute later with a grass-cutter to the back of the onion bag.
Your one hope is Cassidy. He has the Midas touch. To take Clonoe to an O'Neill Cup was close to miraculous and in time that achievement will receive its full recognition. This year highlighted even more with the O'Rahillys kicking their heels in May.
Cassidy knows how to win games with any outfit. He's a bit like Malachy O'Rourke but with better resources. If O'Rourke can bring Fermanagh to the fingernails of an Ulster, Cassidy can get the most out of a sow's ear.
Very misinformed
If you think McCloy has a big arse you're blind. Castigating Doherty because he's not Tohill is irrelevant.
To slate Muldoon without knowing the injuries the man has is again ignorant
Last year was an excellent year for Cassidy at club level, but he was with Clonoe this year too - shows how much you know.
He has it all to prove at inter-county level. I suspect the hard hitting passion, blood and guts, ignoramus approach, will only get them so far. Ulster title max.
Then again the tone suggests you're happy in your world.
Logan your a mouth piece. Cassidy wasn't with us this year. he took one session since January and was at our c'ship game, where he was outside the wire.
I wish Cassidy all the best. We found him to be excellent. If anyone can get this Derry team to win a game where so many players are absent through injury its him.
Who would be favours in the minor game? Don't really know anything about either team.
Going by the minor league, Monaghan. I think they were undefeated in their campaign whilst Derry were winless. Open to correction on that.
No contest then. Monaghan by 10points (minors only!)
Any starting team announced by Monaghan yet?
Quote from: ONeill on May 22, 2009, 11:12:13 AM
Going by the minor league, Monaghan. I think they were undefeated in their campaign whilst Derry were winless. Open to correction on that.
I think Derry were looking at a good few players in the minor league, and were using some of them as trial games. I wouldn't pay much heed to minor league form.
Apparently we're hot favourites in the minors going by the papers, but I wouldn't know much at all about the Derry minors so I couldn't really compare. Seems like Derry only have one of last year's team back, while we have eight back, 4 of which were starters last year. Players like Boyle, McCarey and Dooney still there along with 12 of the All-Ireland VEC winning team of this year, it does look good on paper but as I say I'd know nothing of the Derry team.
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2009, 11:17:32 PM
Lookin forward to this game as a neutral more than any other. We have serial chokers Derry against the Fearless Farney Fisticuffers.
Derry are a rare breed of player. They appear to have all the ingredients but when mashed together they come loose at the edges, around 55 mins. Since the 70s, Derry have churned out at least one Anglo-Celt a decade yet time is running out. It is 11 years since their last although their previous barren period was also of the same length, 76-87.
So, what's their problem? Well, with this team it's the Bradleys. They're simply not team players and have always given me the overriding impression that they're in it for personal glory above team ethic. No manager will knock that out of them. Unfortunately they are the best forwards Derry have and until Derry can find 1-2 scoring forwards of equal or better talent than the Glenuillin moochers then their reliance on Paddy and Eoin will see to it that their barren run continues. Muldoon, the false God, simply hasn't the temperament to turn or influence big games on the big stage, no matter what the Sperrin lads would have you believe. He'll churn out the odd good 60 mins for his club but that's it. McCloy's arse is far too big and is feeding off one decent year, a bit like Lyng of Cavan. Big Fergal Doherty is a bit one-dimensional, albeit a decent ginger player and they have a plethora of nondescript defenders (Tyrone-lite) who'll nullify the likes of Liam McBarron or Ronan Sexton but will be caught like a badger in the headlights too easily.
Monaghan are good.
Derry 2-12 Monaghan 2-12
you Tyrone hooers would love the Bradleys, ye canny help yourselves snidin' in the long grass. Mon, a bit tiring now..and McCloy has buns of steel, will ask him to send on thon immovable object* a fitness plan
Derry by 2 in tight physical match. Really looking forward to it
immovable object* = Hub*
Hub* = Kevin Hughs
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 22, 2009, 09:22:42 AM
Quote from: Logan on May 22, 2009, 12:14:05 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2009, 11:55:44 PM
McCloy is too ponderous and flat-footed with the big arse.
If you think McCloy has a big arse you're blind.
Now we're getting to the important issues. ::)
20k people looking at McCloys arse on Sunday ... ???
Quote from: Knock Yer Mucker In on May 22, 2009, 09:50:23 AM
Quote from: Logan on May 22, 2009, 12:14:05 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2009, 11:55:44 PM
Ah catch a grip of reality. The Bradleys and the overdependence on their individual talent is the one reason why Derry haven't even smelt the burgers on an Ulster final day since 2000. Paddy can rack up 3-13 against Wexford but will throw the head up when you most need him.
No player owes anyone anything but Muldoon never delivered. All I remember is a catch he made in 1998 I think against Galway.
McCloy is too ponderous and flat-footed with the big arse.
Fergal Doherty may be the all-action guy but is undeniably predictable. Elbows Tohill could catch a ball in his own square and pop up a minute later with a grass-cutter to the back of the onion bag.
Your one hope is Cassidy. He has the Midas touch. To take Clonoe to an O'Neill Cup was close to miraculous and in time that achievement will receive its full recognition. This year highlighted even more with the O'Rahillys kicking their heels in May.
Cassidy knows how to win games with any outfit. He's a bit like Malachy O'Rourke but with better resources. If O'Rourke can bring Fermanagh to the fingernails of an Ulster, Cassidy can get the most out of a sow's ear.
Very misinformed
If you think McCloy has a big arse you're blind. Castigating Doherty because he's not Tohill is irrelevant.
To slate Muldoon without knowing the injuries the man has is again ignorant
Last year was an excellent year for Cassidy at club level, but he was with Clonoe this year too - shows how much you know.
He has it all to prove at inter-county level. I suspect the hard hitting passion, blood and guts, ignoramus approach, will only get them so far. Ulster title max.
Then again the tone suggests you're happy in your world.
Logan your a mouth piece. Cassidy wasn't with us this year. he took one session since January and was at our c'ship game, where he was outside the wire.
I wish Cassidy all the best. We found him to be excellent. If anyone can get this Derry team to win a game where so many players are absent through injury its him.
So he was involved then?
And don't be getting annoyed just because summer is over so soon for you.
Sunday will be his test.
Quote from: Mid Mon on May 22, 2009, 11:30:52 AM
Any starting team announced by Monaghan yet?
Wondering the same myself!
Quote from: Logan on May 22, 2009, 02:35:16 PM
Quote from: Mid Mon on May 22, 2009, 11:30:52 AM
Any starting team announced by Monaghan yet?
Wondering the same myself!
Announced at training tonight I think.
Quote from: Logan on May 22, 2009, 02:31:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 22, 2009, 09:22:42 AM
Quote from: Logan on May 22, 2009, 12:14:05 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2009, 11:55:44 PM
McCloy is too ponderous and flat-footed with the big arse.
If you think McCloy has a big arse you're blind.
Now we're getting to the important issues. ::)
20k people looking at McCloys arse on Sunday ... ???
Surely SS has a purist educated arse fixation and could rejoin the thread to enter into this particular serious discussion.
I will have to depend on the RTE cameras occasionally zooming in on this arse of Cuchullain proportions.
Banty is giving some extra serious though to the line out selection.
Apologies in advance for digressing from the topic of Kevin McCloy's arse (not a true Gael, I know..) but does any man know how long it'd take to walk from Foyle street bus station to Celtic Park?
Cheers.
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 22, 2009, 03:43:01 PM
Apologies in advance for digressing from the topic of Kevin McCloy's arse (not a true Gael, I know..) but does any man know how long it'd take to walk from Foyle street bus station to Celtic Park?
Cheers.
10-15 mins maximum
As a Derry man, I'd be fairly confident about this game. Dont ask me to explain my reasons, just let it be known that I'd be fairly confident. It this comes back to bite me on the ass, then so be it ;)
Derry 1-12 Monaghan 0-08
Quote from: Doogie Browser on May 22, 2009, 03:51:15 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 22, 2009, 03:43:01 PM
Apologies in advance for digressing from the topic of Kevin McCloy's arse (not a true Gael, I know..) but does any man know how long it'd take to walk from Foyle street bus station to Celtic Park?
Cheers.
10-15 mins maximum
Cheers Doogie. Like the Mon team I'll be going at 100mph so I expect to do it in 1-2mins!! ;)
I'd say there will be few shocks on the Monaghan team. The only decisions depend on whether JP is fit or not - If he's fit, its between Damien Freeman and Dermot McArdle to start.
Up front, Ronaghan could start with maybe Downey or McManus missing out, but I'd be surprised.
*Please note that no nicknames have been used in this post.
I'd say if JP is fit it'll be McArdle to miss out, bit harsh but Banty seems to prefer to start Damien.
It would be idiotic to drop McManus IMO, Ronaghan starting ahead of Downey is a possibility though given his lack of experience, but I'd still start Downey and Ronaghan is a good man to come on.
Well its necks on the block time....
I'm gonna go for Derry to win by 2. I think if we'd have had a fully fit squad to choose from I would have been confident of predicting a Derry win by 5, but as it stands an uncomfortable 2 point victory is my hope.
Kielt is a worry for me tbh. But I guess if Lynch is half fit, he might have a half in him. I think Seamus Bradley could do damage in a game like this too and with Lockhart also on the bench I think we have enough strength to shade it even with the current injury crisis.
Monaghan team for Sunday:
Padraig McBennett
Dessie Mone
Vincent Corey
Dermot McArdle
Damien Freeman
Gary McQuaid
Darren Hughes
Owen Lennon
Dick Clerkin
Conor McManus
Paul Finlay
Stephen Gollogly
Mark Downey
Rory Woods
Tomás Freeman
Thanks for that. Predictable enough team, what is JP's fitness status do you know?
He's named on the subs, so not sure..... it wouldn't be a major shock to see him start.
Quote from: thebandit on May 22, 2009, 10:52:05 PM
He's named on the subs, so not sure..... it wouldn't be a major shock to see him start.
It wouldn't be like banty to field a team different to the one named. :P
Quote from: thebandit on May 22, 2009, 10:45:56 PM
Monaghan team for Sunday:
Padraig McBennett
Dessie Mone
Vincent Corey
Dermot McArdle
Damien Freeman
Gary McQuaid
Darren Hughes
Owen Lennon
Dick Clerkin
Conor McManus
Paul Finlay
Stephen Gollogly
Mark Downey
Rory Woods
Tomás Freeman
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
Looks like you were way off the mark Bandit
Quote from: Mid Mon on May 23, 2009, 09:35:32 AM
Quote from: thebandit on May 22, 2009, 10:45:56 PM
Monaghan team for Sunday:
Padraig McBennett
Dessie Mone
Vincent Corey
Dermot McArdle
Damien Freeman
Gary McQuaid
Darren Hughes
Owen Lennon
Dick Clerkin
Conor McManus
Paul Finlay
Stephen Gollogly
Mark Downey
Rory Woods
Tomás Freeman
Butsy
Dessie Vinny Strimmer
Damien McQuaid D Hughes
Dick Spindley
Jinxy Jap Manzie
Tommy Rory Downey
Looks like you were way off the mark Bandit
I got it exactly right!!
When was the last time, if ever, that banty started the team he had named in a championship match?
I think he started as selected more often than not last year.
The year before number 30 started the first 2 (if not 3) games :D
I'd say that will be the team that lines out alright. JP mustn't be fully fit and you wouldn't want to throw him in here like that. To be honest it might work out for the best as now it's fairly obvious who's marking who, and it looks good I think; Dessie on P Bradley, Vinny on E Bradley, and McArdle will follow Kielt wherever he goes.
That sounds right ... only change might be to let Vinny out the field.
That full back line will be the most important line on the field I think, It depends on how much ball they get, if he plays with 2 or 3 men etc.
It'll be a cracker!
On paper, it looks as good a team as we could put out.
There is little doubt that a few of the dependables have been off their game.
We'll see how many of their cylinders are firing on the day.
To be honest I think Derry will take it with 4-5 points to spare. Interesting couple of interviews on Radio Foyle earlier with Damien Cassiady, skinner, and celtic park rep. Think he said 400 tickets were sent back up to Celtic park for sale, all standing. One thing he did say was they had wished they put on family tickets as alot of people were not going as there was no offers for the kids.
Quote from: Schkite on May 23, 2009, 12:08:36 PM
I'd say that will be the team that lines out alright. JP mustn't be fully fit and you wouldn't want to throw him in here like that. To be honest it might work out for the best as now it's fairly obvious who's marking who, and it looks good I think; Dessie on P Bradley, Vinny on E Bradley, and McArdle will follow Kielt wherever he goes.
Wouldnt mind Vinny on Skinner, think Eoin would have too much pace for him and would be first to every ball IF it was one on one. But its not the full back line specifically that im worried about. Monaghan crowding out the defence is more of a worry.
Hope Skinner and Diver can take on the defence down the middle and that Cartin, the McGoldricks and O'Kane get up from defence for scores.
All the same whiskeysteve, Vinny's no slouch, I'd be confident enough of him keeping up with E Bradley. But we'll need to be winning the breaks and cutting off the supply at the same time. That half-back line of ours is generally fairly attacking so not sure if they'll all be crowding the defence, though there's a good chance that D Freeman will be deployed as a sweeper in front of the full-back line as he has been in the past.
During the league Skinner was out in front of every man who marked him, whether he done anything with it or not was a different matter. To be fair he's come on well this year with his decision making, just the odd rash shot now and again.
If D Freeman is brought back I'd like to see Sean Leo free to drive up the pitch, he has the engine to get up there on the overlap, maybe even see a goal chance or two worked out of it.
Quote from: Schkite on May 23, 2009, 05:51:14 PM
All the same whiskeysteve, Vinny's no slouch, I'd be confident enough of him keeping up with E Bradley. But we'll need to be winning the breaks and cutting off the supply at the same time. That half-back line of ours is generally fairly attacking so not sure if they'll all be crowding the defence, though there's a good chance that D Freeman will be deployed as a sweeper in front of the full-back line as he has been in the past.
You're right, Vinny is no slouch and I think he's one of the best players Monaghan have, but don't underestimate the speed of Skinner. He will win 70-80% of the ball played in front of the 2 of them. It remains to be seen what he will do with that posession but I can actually see him becoming at least as important to our attack as Paddy.
I think both half-back lines are fairly attack minded so I can see this being a lot of counter-attacking football from both side, but at the same time I cant see huge scores.
Who knows what will happen...but I cant wait!
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 23, 2009, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 23, 2009, 05:51:14 PM
All the same whiskeysteve, Vinny's no slouch, I'd be confident enough of him keeping up with E Bradley. But we'll need to be winning the breaks and cutting off the supply at the same time. That half-back line of ours is generally fairly attacking so not sure if they'll all be crowding the defence, though there's a good chance that D Freeman will be deployed as a sweeper in front of the full-back line as he has been in the past.
You're right, Vinny is no slouch and I think he's one of the best players Monaghan have, but don't underestimate the speed of Skinner. He will win 70-80% of the ball played in front of the 2 of them. It remains to be seen what he will do with that posession but I can actually see him becoming at least as important to our attack as Paddy.
I think both half-back lines are fairly attack minded so I can see this being a lot of counter-attacking football from both side, but at the same time I cant see huge scores.
Who knows what will happen...but I cant wait!
Yeah by all accounts Eoin Bradley has come on some amount this year, read an interview with him there this week and he said he was in the gym all winter. Seems like he's becoming a real dangerous forward in his own right and stepping out of Paddy's shadow. There's alot of talk about him having a big year in him so I'll look forward to seeing him tomorrow. Both teams have been focusing on this game over anything else since the draw was made, and it's only a day away! Can't wait myself!
Startin to get nervous now. I'll have to have a wee drink to settle the nerves :D Early start in the mornin to see the minor game so i'll have to go easy on it
Quote from: jodyb on May 23, 2009, 07:46:13 PM
Startin to get nervous now. I'll have to have a wee drink to settle the nerves :D Early start in the mornin to see the minor game so i'll have to go easy on it
Its too close to call... A sup of drink might be needed alright!
Yeah early start, does anyone have tips for shortcuts?
I intend to take the clady turn (as if goin to Ballybofey) and coming into Lifford that way, then going into Derry via St Johnston.
Is there a better way in? Where is a good place to park?
Quote from: thebandit on May 23, 2009, 11:16:48 PM
Quote from: jodyb on May 23, 2009, 07:46:13 PM
Startin to get nervous now. I'll have to have a wee drink to settle the nerves :D Early start in the mornin to see the minor game so i'll have to go easy on it
Its too close to call... A sup of drink might be needed alright!
Yeah early start, does anyone have tips for shortcuts?
I intend to take the clady turn (as if goin to Ballybofey) and coming into Lifford that way, then going into Derry via St Johnston.
Is there a better way in? Where is a good place to park?
To be honest i haven't a clue how to get to Celtic Park, my intention is to get on the N2, follow the signs to Derry then hopefully spot another Monaghan car to get me to the pitch. It's worked before!
I know where the pitch is, I'm just tryin to avoid traffic! Some sickener sitting in :(
I hope to be there early enough to avoid any serious amounts of traffic. We'll see how it goes.
Quote from: Schkite on May 23, 2009, 07:41:38 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 23, 2009, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 23, 2009, 05:51:14 PM
All the same whiskeysteve, Vinny's no slouch, I'd be confident enough of him keeping up with E Bradley. But we'll need to be winning the breaks and cutting off the supply at the same time. That half-back line of ours is generally fairly attacking so not sure if they'll all be crowding the defence, though there's a good chance that D Freeman will be deployed as a sweeper in front of the full-back line as he has been in the past.
You're right, Vinny is no slouch and I think he's one of the best players Monaghan have, but don't underestimate the speed of Skinner. He will win 70-80% of the ball played in front of the 2 of them. It remains to be seen what he will do with that posession but I can actually see him becoming at least as important to our attack as Paddy.
I think both half-back lines are fairly attack minded so I can see this being a lot of counter-attacking football from both side, but at the same time I cant see huge scores.
Who knows what will happen...but I cant wait!
Yeah by all accounts Eoin Bradley has come on some amount this year, read an interview with him there this week and he said he was in the gym all winter. Seems like he's becoming a real dangerous forward in his own right and stepping out of Paddy's shadow. There's alot of talk about him having a big year in him so I'll look forward to seeing him tomorrow. Both teams have been focusing on this game over anything else since the draw was made, and it's only a day away! Can't wait myself!
Yeh ...
I honestly don't think any Monaghan back can handle him.
I'm know none of them have the pace for him or the strength - and that's the big thing with him - his strength, plus he's so underestimated.
If the ball comes in right to him I think you could see a show piece tomorrow
Best of luck to Derry today. Hopefully we'll come out on the right side this time. All the talk of the previous two encounters implies that Derry weren't well prepared mentally.
i'm going for a Monaghan win, still plent of talent in this current team and Derry will have it all to do at Celtic Park
Tough one to call but I'm going for the men from Londonderry to pip it
Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 24, 2009, 11:17:14 AM
Tough one to call but I'm going for the men from Londonderry to pip it
???
but its Derry and Monaghan playing?!?
Monaghan will run Derry very close - I expect Derry to win but not by very much - first draw of the championship ??
Really looking forward to this, hopefully it'll be a bit better of a game than the one last week. Hard to call a winner since its nearly impossible to know where both teams are really at. I'm gonna ignore league form completely and say, on the back of their more impressive recent championship form, Monaghan by 3 :-\ :)
Whoever is doing the match direction on RTE here needs a f**king smack on the head >:(
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 02:13:06 PM
Whoever is doing the match direction on RTE here needs a f**king smack on the head >:(
Pathetic coverage.
Superb point from Tommy Freeman. It's a good battle between himself and McGuckin
Quote from: FermPundit on May 24, 2009, 02:21:44 PM
Superb point from Tommy Freeman. It's a good battle between himself and McGuckin
Wee head butt from Tommy was there ?
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 02:23:11 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on May 24, 2009, 02:21:44 PM
Superb point from Tommy Freeman. It's a good battle between himself and McGuckin
Wee head butt from Tommy was there ?
Yeah, I noticed that myself.
All this posturing and wannabe hardman stuff is pathetic.
And Monaghan are more guilty of it than Derry.
BBC commentary makes me cringe.
Serious number of wides from Monaghan - 7 to date I think.
Definite case of gouging from Fergal Doherty there. Citing commissioners tonight ?
trying to get web broadcast anybody having problems getting picture on justin. currently sound only
Monaghan kicking themselves out of it. Goal could be crucial. Dirty enough game as well, I wonder how many incidents will be highlighted on TV again.
fergal doherty very lucky not to get a second yellow there now
Did Jimmy White cop out of that latest challenge from FergaL Doc ?
Quote from: joemamas on May 24, 2009, 02:28:00 PM
trying to get web broadcast anybody having problems getting picture on justin. currently sound only
If you have Mozilla Firefox use it rather than internet explorer. Hopefully this will solve your problem.
Quote from: joemamas on May 24, 2009, 02:28:00 PM
trying to get web broadcast anybody having problems getting picture on justin. currently sound only
I'm watching from here
http://www.justin.tv/sportstime/popout (http://www.justin.tv/sportstime/popout)
on firefox though
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 02:30:01 PM
Monaghan kicking themselves out of it. Goal could be crucial. Dirty enough game as well, I wonder how many incidents will be highlighted on TV again.
A lot of needless handbags from both teams imo
Was a very cynical foul from Fergal Doc. Im suprised he made the tackle as he was already on a yellow card. Cant see this game staying with 15 men on each side the way this game is going. Barry McGoldrick seems to be getting involved alot as is Ronaghan, Woods and Freeman.
Diver by name Diver by nature.
Is that the same Diver that went down holding his puss against Crossmaglen in the club championship?
Quote from: Jinxy on May 24, 2009, 02:37:31 PM
Is that the same Diver that went down holding his puss against Crossmaglen in the club championship?
Diver plays for Bellaghy. It was one of the Conway's for Ballinderry you're thinking of.
Pat isn't happy with what he has seen so far in Celtic Park. I wonder will Joe try and defend the "systems" after the break.
Time to do away with the square ball rule - ref got this ine wrong.
Still not sure if it was a square ball or not. On first viewing I thought it was, second viewing I thought he timed his run well, then when seeing it again im not so sure. One thing for sure is they have to make a decision on this rule. Either give the umpires authority to call the square ball as they seem to be in a better position than the ref, or scrap the rule altogether.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 02:45:03 PM
Still not sure if it was a square ball or not. On first viewing I thought it was, second viewing I thought he timed his run well, then when seeing it again im not so sure. One thing for sure is they have to make a decision on this rule. Either give the umpires authority to call the square ball as they seem to be in a better position than the ref, or scrap the rule altogether.
[/quote
The umpires can't even do properly what they're supposed to be doing. They can't decide whether the ball is over the bar or not.
Quote from: FermPundit on May 24, 2009, 02:31:31 PM
Quote from: joemamas on May 24, 2009, 02:28:00 PM
trying to get web broadcast anybody having problems getting picture on justin. currently sound only
If you have Mozilla Firefox use it rather than internet explorer. Hopefully this will solve your problem.
thanks it is asking me to install adobe, have tried three times, it says installed but keeps popping up.
thanks for your help i used to do setanta broadband is that service stopped
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 02:47:55 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 02:45:03 PM
Still not sure if it was a square ball or not. On first viewing I thought it was, second viewing I thought he timed his run well, then when seeing it again im not so sure. One thing for sure is they have to make a decision on this rule. Either give the umpires authority to call the square ball as they seem to be in a better position than the ref, or scrap the rule altogether.
The umpires can't even do properly what they're supposed to be doing. They can't decide whether the ball is over the bar or not.
Yeah. Who chooses the umpires anyway?
Fair play to O'Rourke for calling up Spillane on his usual bullshit.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 02:40:44 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 24, 2009, 02:37:31 PM
Is that the same Diver that went down holding his puss against Crossmaglen in the club championship?
Diver plays for Bellaghy. It was one of the Conway's for Ballinderry you're thinking of.
Ah right.
Just thought the way he went down looked familiar.
On the BBC they have said the numbers on the back of the Monaghan jerseys include the names of all the squad and back room staff.
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 02:54:27 PM
Fair play to O'Rourke for calling up Spillane on his usual bullshit.
What was Pat saying and how did O'Rourke deal with him? I'm watching it online and have to put up with Sidebottom, Jesus wept he's poor!
Quote from: Midman on May 24, 2009, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 02:54:27 PM
Fair play to O'Rourke for calling up Spillane on his usual bullshit.
What was Pat saying and how did O'Rourke deal with him? I'm watching it online and have to put up with Sidebottom, Jesus wept he's poor!
Pat was on his usual spiel about how footballers can't kick the ball properly anymore, and that they don't practice their skills like they used to in his day, blah, blah, blah. O'Rourke basically told him he was talking bollocks and that if he ever looked at the old games on TG4 he'd see that the skill level was brutal back then.
O'Rourke condescendingly said "sure we all know you were the best footballer that ever played football Pat !! "
Easy for Derry now.
Quote from: Midman on May 24, 2009, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 02:54:27 PM
Fair play to O'Rourke for calling up Spillane on his usual bullshit.
What was Pat saying and how did O'Rourke deal with him? I'm watching it online and have to put up with Sidebottom, Jesus wept he's poor!
f**king desperate, I'm thinking of turning off the sound
Quote
O'Rourke condescendingly said "sure we all know you were the best footballer that ever played football Pat !! "
ha ha
Monaghan are kicking themselves out of the game - too many wides and too many into the goalies' hands.
Really poor match. Desperately disappointing.
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 03:05:05 PM
Monaghan are kicking themselves out of the game - too many wides and too many into the goalies' hands.[/quote
And again !
Poor shooting alright on both sides. Hanratty on now might shake things up for Monaghan as they will be running with the ball now rather than pumping it in. Unless big Vinny Corey goes to full forward.
When did "tommy" Freeman become known as "Tomás" Freeman in commentary land?
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 02:54:27 PM
Fair play to O'Rourke for calling up Spillane on his usual bullshit.
He did it last week as well and I made the exact same point.
We can all watch these games from yesteryear on TG4 and the evidence is there in front of us.
There were lads playing in Spillanes time that were considered great players and they could hardly solo the ball.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 24, 2009, 03:10:52 PM
When did "tommy" Freeman become known as "Tomás" Freeman in commentary land?
The commentators dont know what they are on about half the time anyway.
I wonder will Brian Mullan get the same punishment as Tommy McGuigan got for the same in the league game v Derry this year?
Quote from: Jinxy on May 24, 2009, 03:12:33 PM
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 02:54:27 PM
Fair play to O'Rourke for calling up Spillane on his usual bullshit.
He did it last week as well and I made the exact same point.
We can all watch these games from yesteryear on TG4 and the evidence is there in front of us.
There were lads playing in Spillanes time that were considered great players and they could hardly solo the ball.
On the substantive point he was dead right. Its a brutal match. another thuggish incident by a derry player there.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 24, 2009, 03:10:52 PM
When did "tommy" Freeman become known as "Tomás" Freeman in commentary land?
The commentators dont know what they are on about half the time anyway.
Derry No 24 should have walked there, a really dirty knee in the balls.
Citing commissioner for Brian Mullin.
Tommy Mc Guigan ???
Some of this hard man shite from both teams is really pathetic, f**king spoiling any chance of a decent game developing.
Spectators are st it as well.
Fergal kicking
The 2 teams have lost it completly. Nothing the ref can do about it if the 2 teams want to kick lumps out of each other.
Red card at last. Fergal was walking on thin ice all day as have a lot of others.
Yeh but he picked the lesser of the crimes there (doherty shoulder) and sent the man off.
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 03:15:53 PM
Some of this hard man shite from both teams is really pathetic, f**king spoiling any chance of a decent game developing.
I wish they'd f**king wise up and play football
Doherty got what he deserved.
I fancy Derry with 14 men from here on.
More handbags in this game that your average premier league encounter.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 24, 2009, 03:15:08 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 24, 2009, 03:12:33 PM
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 02:54:27 PM
Fair play to O'Rourke for calling up Spillane on his usual bullshit.
He did it last week as well and I made the exact same point.
We can all watch these games from yesteryear on TG4 and the evidence is there in front of us.
There were lads playing in Spillanes time that were considered great players and they could hardly solo the ball.
On the substantive point he was dead right. Its a brutal match. another thuggish incident by a derry player there.
Oh absolutely.
But not for the reason Spillane says.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if either of these teams went on to play some brilliant football over the summer.
It's their attitude that's all wrong today, not the skill levels.
What a miss from Paddy Bradley !!!
Derry #21 makes a fool of himself ::)
This is pure shite, I'm actually beginning to think indiana et al. have a point :-\
Could see extra time in this game. Shocking miss from Paddy there.
Some bit of handbags there.
I've seen derry this year against dublin -they were brilliant. Monaghan are a good side too- but neitehr want to play football today. Its a dreadful advertisement for gaelic football.
12 wides Monaghan and 6 into the goalies' hands = DEFEAT
Sidebottom " Iron foot, velvet booted Bradley" Alan Partridge would be embarassed by that statement.
Derry have turned the screw with 14, weird game to much "manliness" and not enough football
Fair play to Derry. Good win for them.
The citing commissioners will have a field day.
Derry deserving winners. Pity both teams didn't stick to playing football as could have been a great game. Few incidents will be brought up no doubt.
Brolly is a dead man! ;D
Brolly is a massive fan of Monaghan football and Fermanagh as well :)
Wonder will the Derry sub be charged with sexual assault? ;D
Brolly and Spillane is better viewing than the match.
Poor game of football, Brolly doing his best to make Derry sound like genuine contenders. Doherty should have got the line earlier.
Not being biased here but that seemed worse than last week.
Yet again it's up to Leinster football to provide a bit of entertainment. ;)
C'mon the Biffos!
2 poor showings all right. I have a feeling next week could be the same. Going by Cassidy's interview, the win was all that mattered for Derry and the werent going to be bullied out of the game.
Brian Mullan is fucked now
I think that was an awful ad for Gaelic games - I would hope that various incidents are looked at again by CCCC and suspensions dished out where appropriate.
Brolly made shite of Spillane there. Pat argueing that it was two bad teams yadda yadda yadda. Brolly makes the valid point that that's the way Monaghan make every team look. Delighted Derry won. Monaghan not good for football.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on May 24, 2009, 03:44:21 PM
Brolly made shite of Spillane there. Pat argueing that it was two bad teams yadda yadda yadda. Brolly makes the valid point that that's the way Monaghan make every team look. Delighted Derry won. Monaghan not good for football.
Brolly took care of him all right. Pat didn't like it when Joe said that Kerry even struggle to play football against Monaghan.
Thomas Kane asks shite questions. Its as if he's actually fishing for clichés
only going on what i saw on tv but that was a terrible advert for the game. behaviour of both teams terrible.
A few examples i picked out:
doherty should have been gone earlier for a blatant kick
derry player kneeing a monaghan player on the ground (looked very dangerous)
derry no21 making a fool of himself by lying down and pretending he was hit
monaghan player getting involved with someone in the crowd
a melee when the ball was at the other side of the field (which included the derry keeper taking a player in a head lock from behind. lovely action.)
tommy freeman being fouled every time he went near the ball
players mouthing in other players ears, most notably clerkin and mcguckin
hopefully the game will be looked at by cccc and appropriate action taken.
refereeing was terrible. he didnt want to deal with the problems that were eveident early in the game and let it get out of hand
Quote from: behind the wire on May 24, 2009, 03:56:19 PM
only going on what i saw on tv but that was a terrible advert for the game. behaviour of both teams terrible.
A few examples i picked out:
doherty should have been gone earlier for a blatant kick
derry player kneeing a monaghan player on the ground (looked very dangerous)
derry no21 making a fool of himself by lying down and pretending he was hit
monaghan player getting involved with someone in the crowd
a melee when the ball was at the other side of the field (which included the derry keeper taking a player in a head lock from behind. lovely action.)
tommy freeman being fouled every time he went near the ball
players mouthing in other players ears, most notably clerkin and mcguckin
hopefully the game will be looked at by cccc and appropriate action taken.
refereeing was terrible. he didnt want to deal with the problems that were eveident early in the game and let it get out of hand
Will Derry have 15 men for the semi after CCCC gets a houl of them, should be a breeze for ourselves or Armagh then?! ;)
Monaghan are the most negative team playing Gaelic football. Its near time Dick Clerkin got a suspension. He was in Fergal Docs face all day and at it off the ball which resulted in Doherty loosing the head. He is one dirty, negative tr**p. Too often his behaviour is spoiling good players and not being punished.
Tyrone and Armagh will be sitting back and having a good laugh at this.All the talk about tommy and ricey i`m sure the silence in Derry will be deafening.Doherty tried his best the whole second half to get sent off,by the rules he will get 3mths for kicking alone.no.21 will get at least a mth.i wasnt won for the new rules but i`m starting to wonder.
On the contrary BehindTheWire, I think the referee did a very good job today - the majority of those incidents were out of his control, particularly the knee by Mullin and the kick or two that Doc threw out while he was booking Bradley. Those that he did see he got right, and for the most part wanted to let the game flow freely and not get bogged down with stops and starts for countless frees - theres nothing he can do if both teams decide to ignore the football and just get at each others throats throughout.
Needs much more help from the umpires and linesmen, and with video footage, its likely that any incidents that went unspotted will be punished after - cant think of anything in particular other than Brian Mullin may pick up a sunspension. Doc was very rightly sent off, could have been away a few times before he did get the marching orders.
Monaghans shooting let them down, its all fair and well taking plenty of shots when you have a strong wind at your back, but to drop them short in those circumstances is criminal. Dont think either team performed anywhere near their best, but as Brolly pointed out its all about results at this stage- and for the semi final I would expect to see a stronger Derry side, with Muldoon, McCusker, Lockhart et al in line for a place in the team.
Quote from: Midman on May 24, 2009, 03:29:17 PM
Sidebottom " Iron foot, velvet booted Bradley" Alan Partridge would be embarassed by that statement.
Derry have turned the screw with 14, weird game to much "manliness" and not enough football
Mark Sidearse is Alan Partridge... but at least Partridge would get the players' names right... Sidearse even credited the goal to someone else than Bradley... he's totally abysmal and some of the shite he comes out with is downright embarrassing
What a wretched game of football. Pure shite.
I hope the supposed custodians of our game that voted against the new rules are well proud of themselves after watching that spectacle, and there's plenty more to come too.
Surely even a watered down version of the experimental rules would be better than this? I know not every game will be played in this spiteful manner but one or two is one or two too many IMHO.
New rules or no new rules, at the end of the day its up to the players and the managers to make sure the game is played in the right spirit and not see any of the nonsense we seen today.
Quote from: Size.5.Hallion on May 24, 2009, 04:26:40 PM
the majority of those incidents were out of his control, particularly the knee by Mullin
He could of give a free for McManus hauling Mullan to the ground! No?
Quote from: the green man on May 24, 2009, 04:52:32 PM
Quote from: Size.5.Hallion on May 24, 2009, 04:26:40 PM
the majority of those incidents were out of his control, particularly the knee by Mullin
He could of give a free for McManus hauling Mullan to the ground! No?
Well, true, and i definitly agree it was a free but he can hardly be too blame for Mullins reaction. As I mentioned before though, he was very keen to let the game flow throughout and probably thought that Mullin would have been unable to get the ball anyway, as another Monaghan man was coming on to it. Realistically, it was a very difficult game to control and as mentioned by a number of analysts another referee would have ruined the game completely, but Jimmy White did a very commendable job in my opinion.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 03:37:44 PM
Brolly and Spillane is better viewing than the match.
Tell me about it. It was all it took for me not to switch over.
Watched a bit on the BBC and put it straight back to RTE. Did catch Martin McHugh say Dooher is a fantastic player ::)
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 04:41:24 PM
New rules or no new rules, at the end of the day its up to the players and the managers to make sure the game is played in the right spirit and not see any of the nonsense we seen today.
"right spirit" is absolutely nothing to do with players and managers. They go to win. And if there's no real punishment for cynical fouling and off the ball hitting, then teams will try and take advantage of it.
The new rules went a long way to getting rid of a lot of that nonsense. But if you look at the thread debating the new rules the majority of the fogies on here prefer the cynical fouling, because that means its a "man's game" and without the cynical fouling our game is no different than basketball. Hard to believe, but many clowns actually believe that - as can be seen from that thread.
Quote from: Hound on May 24, 2009, 05:36:40 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 04:41:24 PM
New rules or no new rules, at the end of the day its up to the players and the managers to make sure the game is played in the right spirit and not see any of the nonsense we seen today.
"right spirit" is absolutely nothing to do with players and managers. They go to win. And if there's no real punishment for cynical fouling and off the ball hitting, then teams will try and take advantage of it.
The new rules went a long way to getting rid of a lot of that nonsense. But if you look at the thread debating the new rules the majority of the fogies on here prefer the cynical fouling, because that means its a "man's game" and without the cynical fouling our game is no different than basketball. Hard to believe, but many clowns actually believe that - as can be seen from that thread.
spot on in my view.
Just in from that wrestling match in Derry. Haven't heard any reaction but just confirmed my belief that Monaghan are the dirtiest team in the game. Few shocking incidents and they had Derry down to their level (Mullan should get a ban for that). Rory Woods another who deserves a mention for a sly kick just behind the referee. Maybe Doc deserved red for actions elsewhere but McQuaid was a joke lying down after the two of them shouldered, nothing manly about that. Things like that and Woods' kick dispel any notion that Monaghan are a tough team, it's dirt pure and simple. Definitely the most cynical game I've ever seen.
There's only so much the ref can do, and he was poor, that was near impossible to ref. Shite going on all over the field almost all of the time. As someone said earlier some teams go out to play in that spirit and the only times Monaghan looked like winning that game was when it descended into chaos. Brought a few non GAA fans to it and to be honest it was embarrassing.
The Brolly v Spillane show is heating up & in fairness to O'Rourke he's making up his own mind and not choosing one side or the other. I loved it when they all laughed at Spillane for saying he doesnt wanna be always saying things were better in his day when they all laughed and O'Rourke said sure you were the best player ever.
It was a poor spectacle but Monaghan were always gonna make it that type of game & fair play to to Derry for hanging in there with their SYSTEM and came good in the end. I agree Monaghan are a very negative minded team & even though Derry were no angels in this game I think it was very much them standing up for themselves rather than Derry not wanting to beat them at football.
It will be interesting to see how much the CCCC do look into the incidents & as O'Rourke said they can't be blamed for highlighting the incidents as they can't just sweep them under the carpet.
Everyone says its a tough job to be the ref but when players see he wont implement the rules himself then they take the law into their own hands. How Ronaghan stayed on the field is beyond me. He seemed intent on getting a 2nd yellow at least.
I'd say we'll see a very different Derry performance the next day. Wonder who it will be against.
BTW just count how many times Brolly mentions Tyrone every Sunday. He sure loves to talk them up.
Agree with ye ExiledGael as I thought they were firece durty in the Ulster final in 2007
dont see what all the crying is about ya cowards. its championship football afterall, if yous dont like it go watch league football
good win today, cant see james conway staying on the panel any longer. if i was him id pack her in...
Quote from: Hound on May 24, 2009, 05:36:40 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 04:41:24 PM
New rules or no new rules, at the end of the day its up to the players and the managers to make sure the game is played in the right spirit and not see any of the nonsense we seen today.
"right spirit" is absolutely nothing to do with players and managers. They go to win. And if there's no real punishment for cynical fouling and off the ball hitting, then teams will try and take advantage of it.
The new rules went a long way to getting rid of a lot of that nonsense. But if you look at the thread debating the new rules the majority of the fogies on here prefer the cynical fouling, because that means its a "man's game" and without the cynical fouling our game is no different than basketball. Hard to believe, but many clowns actually believe that - as can be seen from that thread.
While I'm beginning to see more merit in your way of thinking, I can't fully agree with that. There are clear punishments for this crap, striking off the ball, etc. Fergal Doherty and Brian Mullan should both have seen straight reds for their actions. A couple of the Derry backs and their goalie could've seen the line too for get boys in headlocks and digging at the Monaghan forwards. There already are punishments in the rule book for these types of misdemeanors, so we don't necessarily need new rules, rather refs (with more help from umpires, in particular) to enforce the existing ones.
If Monaghan fans were as fickle as our hurlers on the ditch in Down there would be a Mc Enaney must go thread already.
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
Is it still "out of character" for Doherty to act like a sc**bag?
Mullan will be suspended.
Chrissy McKaigue - Pathetic.
Did he do something doorty? Or was it just a poor performance?
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on May 24, 2009, 06:09:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
Is it still "out of character" for Doherty to act like a sc**bag?
Mullan will be suspended.
Chrissy McKaigue - Pathetic.
Did he do something doorty? Or was it just a poor performance?
He won a free near the end, then went down holding his face when there was minimal contact.
A lot of bad manners in that game alright. CCCC might suspend the one Derryman for ball kneeing, as attacks on the swingers seem to be the only offence punishable by video evidence. If they don't look at some of the other stuff it will be a cop out though, with the one player as the scapegoat.
That said, must the RTE commentators sound like they are a combination of 60 year-old spinster school-mistresses talking about naughty children and Kate Adie reporting from a Congolese convent where 20 nuns have just been slaughtered?
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on May 24, 2009, 06:09:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
Is it still "out of character" for Doherty to act like a sc**bag?
Mullan will be suspended.
Chrissy McKaigue - Pathetic.
Did he do something doorty? Or was it just a poor performance?
he played well enough, think he playacted when there was nothing wrong with him. never good to see
as for doc he prob did deserve to go. he was dirty enough but so are monaghan and as captain he doesnt was to show any weakness.
happy enough with the performance. knew it was gonna be scrappy anyway. celtic park is some job also
all of the defence had a great game....roll on the next round
The Monaghan keeper was rolling around the ground after 5mins as if he was dying. Few others in the Monaghan side guilty of it too. Shame that McKaigue was a it too, although I didnt see it.
Need to stamp that shite out ASAP. That and the soccer chanting and disgusting tactics from Monaghan. Or just ban Monaghan.
Quote from: Stalin on May 24, 2009, 06:21:05 PM
Or just ban Monaghan.
I'll vote for that.
Seen McKaigue at that, pretty pathetic alright. Right in front of me and similar to McQuaid I thought. It's a disease.
now i know why mceaneny didnt like the experimental rules.
monaghan are so negative, had d freeman and d hughes filtering back in front of our full forwards. if they let d freeman attack a bit more they may have got something out of todays game
dessie mone also gets a special mention for his ' tight' marking
Quote from: ziggysego on May 24, 2009, 05:22:08 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 03:37:44 PM
Brolly and Spillane is better viewing than the match.
Tell me about it. It was all it took for me not to switch over.
Watched a bit on the BBC and put it straight back to RTE. Did catch Martin McHugh say Dooher is a fantastic player ::)
it used to be the case where even a bad gaelic football match was still a hundred times better than watching a game of soccer. not any more - if the last 2 weekends are anything to go by.
Quote from: clarshack on May 24, 2009, 06:37:56 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on May 24, 2009, 05:22:08 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 03:37:44 PM
Brolly and Spillane is better viewing than the match.
Tell me about it. It was all it took for me not to switch over.
Watched a bit on the BBC and put it straight back to RTE. Did catch Martin McHugh say Dooher is a fantastic player ::)
it used to be the case where even a bad gaelic football match was still a hundred times better than watching a game of soccer.
That was never true in the first place. I've seen plenty of absolutely godawful games of football that would rank up with any Bolton v Stoke 0-0 draw on a wet Monday evening in January.
Why do we always need to bring soccer in to it ::)
Quote from: tyssam5 on May 24, 2009, 06:12:58 PM
A lot of bad manners in that game alright. CCCC might suspend the one Derryman for ball kneeing, as attacks on the swingers seem to be the only offence punishable by video evidence. If they don't look at some of the other stuff it will be a cop out though, with the one player as the scapegoat.
That said, must the RTE commentators sound like they are a combination of 60 year-old spinster school-mistresses talking about naughty children and Kate Adie reporting from a Congolese convent where 20 nuns have just been slaughtered?
So kicking someone in the nuts is acceptable? Their analysis was fair enough on the derry v monaghan game- it was a brutal match like last weeks. I don't like them as analysts but they were spot on today.
shockin bad game, Monaghan should have won it but their shooting was terrible. Derry will want to improve drastically if they really want to win Ulster, they looked poor today.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 06:46:50 PM
Dick Clerkin is one dirty dirty *******.
How did you manage to single out Clerkin out of all that went on today?
Monaghan are a dirty shower - they spoiled the game today with their cyncial play - Clerkin was absolute disgrace - gesturing to the crowd with his little TV box - he was at doherty the whole game - fergal was a saint putting up with it for so long. Thought McGuckian did a great job on that little bullock Freeman. Its the winning that counts today - the football will come later. Referee was rubbish.
Quote from: clarshack on May 24, 2009, 06:37:56 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on May 24, 2009, 05:22:08 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on May 24, 2009, 03:37:44 PM
Brolly and Spillane is better viewing than the match.
Tell me about it. It was all it took for me not to switch over.
Watched a bit on the BBC and put it straight back to RTE. Did catch Martin McHugh say Dooher is a fantastic player ::)
it used to be the case where even a bad gaelic football match was still a hundred times better than watching a game of soccer. not any more - if the last 2 weekends are anything to go by.
A couple of years ago we played in a 'great game' (for the neutral) against Longford in the qualifiers and got beat by a point. I have to say I'm alot happier today whether it was ugly or not.
Seen Clerkin making the TV sign, what exactly was that about?
Very poor performance today - kicked ourselves out of the game. Monaghan should have been at least 3 up at half time, but the waste was terrible. Derry pushed on at the end with some impressive points.
The referee had no control of the game whatsoever - made some baffling decisions and should have been flashing yellow and red cards a lot sooner than he did.
One question - on more than one occassion, the ref blew for a Derry free, then a Derry player commits a foul and is booked, yet Derry still retain the free... should that not be a throw ball?
Having the blinkers one doensn't describe what's coming out of some here!
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 06:56:43 PM
Clerkin was absolute disgrace - gesturing to the crowd with his little TV box - he was at doherty the whole game - fergal was a saint putting up with it for so long.
Yeah he was a real credit to your county today! :D
Both teams were at it FFS, if you can't see that there's no saving you.
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 06:56:43 PM
Referee was rubbish.
I agree, how he didn't send off Mullen for kneeing McManus in the balls I'll never know.
Mullen an absolute disgrace, hope he gets at least a Month, no call for the dirty low tactic he resorted to. An absolute sc**bag.
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 24, 2009, 06:59:47 PM
Seen Clerkin making the TV sign, what exactly was that about?
Doherty hit him off the ball - so clerkin turned and gestured implying that the TV camera's would pick up on it. I think Doc had taken enough of his shite. At least it wasn't a straight red.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 07:02:50 PM
Mullen an absolute disgrace, hope he gets at least a Month, no call for the dirty low tactic he resorted to. An absolute sc**bag.
thought Mullan did his job - Enda Lynn was out muscled today - Brian showed what was needed. Fight fire with fire!
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 06:59:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 24, 2009, 06:55:58 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 06:46:50 PM
Dick Clerkin is one dirty dirty *******.
How did you manage to single out Clerkin out of all that went on today?
Clerkin should have walked at the end of the 1st half pushed the Derry man in the face in front of the ref after the whistle and him sitting on a yellow. Clerkin is a dirty fouling b**tard and always has been, he's well named put it like that.
Would you like to comment on any of the behaviour of some of your own players, or would you rather make childish remarks about a player's name?
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 06:59:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 24, 2009, 06:55:58 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 06:46:50 PM
Dick Clerkin is one dirty dirty *******.
How did you manage to single out Clerkin out of all that went on today?
Clerkin should have walked at the end of the 1st half pushed the Derry man in the face in front of the ref after the whistle and him sitting on a yellow. Clerkin is a dirty fouling b**tard and always has been, he's well named put it like that.
Doherty should have went earlier too, tripped up a player right in front of the ref right after his first yellow. Or what about when he had Clerkin down, holding his head into the ground, he was far more guilty then Clerkin today no matter what you Derry yokes say.
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 07:02:50 PM
Mullen an absolute disgrace, hope he gets at least a Month, no call for the dirty low tactic he resorted to. An absolute sc**bag.
thought Mullan did his job - Enda Lynn was out muscled today - Brian showed what was needed. Fight fire with fire!
So you're advocating Mullen's actions, well there's clearly no talking to you. And you think Monaghan are a disgrace!
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 07:02:50 PM
Mullen an absolute disgrace, hope he gets at least a Month, no call for the dirty low tactic he resorted to. An absolute sc**bag.
thought Mullan did his job - Enda Lynn was out muscled today - Brian showed what was needed. Fight fire with fire!
Don't defend Mullen for what he did was disgusting. If his job was something in UFC (Ultimate Fighting Challenge) then he did his job, it was cowardly and uncalled for and I hope to God he gets his comeuppance.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 24, 2009, 07:05:43 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 06:59:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 24, 2009, 06:55:58 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 06:46:50 PM
Dick Clerkin is one dirty dirty *******.
How did you manage to single out Clerkin out of all that went on today?
Clerkin should have walked at the end of the 1st half pushed the Derry man in the face in front of the ref after the whistle and him sitting on a yellow. Clerkin is a dirty fouling b**tard and always has been, he's well named put it like that.
Would you like to comment on any of the behaviour of some of your own players, or would you rather make childish remarks about a player's name?
For the record that was lavey oakleafer93 not me!
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 06:56:43 PM
Thought McGuckian did a great job on that little bullock Freeman.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 06:59:32 PM
Clerkin is a dirty fouling b**tard and always has been, he's well named put it like that.
Rule 2 people. Cold shower time - no need for any of that.
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 07:07:16 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 07:02:50 PM
Mullen an absolute disgrace, hope he gets at least a Month, no call for the dirty low tactic he resorted to. An absolute sc**bag.
thought Mullan did his job - Enda Lynn was out muscled today - Brian showed what was needed. Fight fire with fire!
So you're advocating Mullen's actions, well there's clearly no talking to you. And you think Monaghan are a disgrace!
Schkite it was Monaghan we where playing - as Cassidy said we had to match Monaghan physically and Derry did today. It was not nice and it did not entertain the public watching on television - but Monaghan are no angels!
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 07:07:28 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 07:02:50 PM
Mullen an absolute disgrace, hope he gets at least a Month, no call for the dirty low tactic he resorted to. An absolute sc**bag.
thought Mullan did his job - Enda Lynn was out muscled today - Brian showed what was needed. Fight fire with fire!
Don't defend Mullen for what he did was disgusting. If his job was something in UFC (Ultimate Fighting Challenge) then he did his job, it was cowardly and uncalled for and I hope to God he gets his comeuppance.
Well at least you can see it was wrong, but you still need to take off the blinkers in regard to some of the other stuff. We were missing players too you know. As Maguire said, we kicked ourselves out of it. Had our forwards been anyway on their game in the first half we'd have won. That's not even mentioning the square ball goal which Bradley wasn't even sure of at the time.
And the most negative team in Ulster, hardly! Watch any football last week? This game was always going to be dirty after the last 2 years.
I don't think Mullan was as devious as everyone is making out.
McManus rugby tackled the man for Gods sake - where's the referee for Gods sake?
In fairness if McManus wants to drag the game down to that level he deserves a knee in the jewels.
Oh and the ref does too!
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 07:12:48 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 07:07:16 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 07:02:50 PM
Mullen an absolute disgrace, hope he gets at least a Month, no call for the dirty low tactic he resorted to. An absolute sc**bag.
thought Mullan did his job - Enda Lynn was out muscled today - Brian showed what was needed. Fight fire with fire!
So you're advocating Mullen's actions, well there's clearly no talking to you. And you think Monaghan are a disgrace!
Schkite it was Monaghan we where playing - as Cassidy said we had to match Monaghan physically and Derry did today. It was not nice and it did not entertain the public watching on television - but Monaghan are no angels!
Yes but I'm talking about you agreeing with Mullen's actions. You can be physical without resorting to a low blow like that. We're no angels surely but I'm trying to say neither are Derry, people making out like we dragged them down to our level! :D Derry were the worse at it today.
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 07:16:13 PM
I don't think Mullan was as devious as everyone is making out.
McManus rugby tackled the man for Gods sake - where's the referee for Gods sake?
In fairness if McManus wants to drag the game down to that level he deserves a knee in the jewels.
Oh and the ref does too!
Yes but the difference is Mullen will be getting a ban while McManus won't, what does that tell you about which was worse? People get dragged off the ball all the time, especially in Ulster, but you don't see scumbags kneeing fellas in the balls every week.
"I'm proud of my lads - I'm proud of the way they stood up and showed the guts that had to be shown," he said.
"We were down to 14 men in the last 15 minutes and we really showed our character as we grabbed the game and pulled away to claim a victory.
"Monaghan had been our bogey team so we will cherish this result."
"It was a battle but it was not going to be anything else," he added.
"People sitting at home may be complaining about the quality of football but we are not in the buisness of entertaining people.
"This is an amateur game - you sacrifice your working like and your family life and we don't get paid for entertaining people.
"We showed the football we can play in the last 15 minutes but up until then it was a physical game and that's what we expect.
"All we care about is the result and that's all that matters in this game.
"I don't think Fergal should have been sent-off. Someone was holding the ball and he put the shoulder in him and that's part of the game." Damien Cassidy
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 07:19:27 PM
"I don't think Fergal should have been sent-off. Someone was holding the ball and he put the shoulder in him and that's part of the game." Damien Cassidy
Just on this point, McQuaid wasn't holding the ball, he was running across it when Doherty went over to get it. Being a bit of a nuisanse yes, but Doherty was awful stupid to shoulder him over right in front of the ref and him on a yellow, after a good few warnings too.
have to agree with you Doherty was out of control at that stage he was hitting all around him - he totally losed it. Referee had no choice to send him off. But fair play to derry they didn't drop the heads they battled on. It was ironic that big joe hit the ball over the bar when everyone in the ground was shouting "lay it it off Joe !" - big Joe proved us all wrong!
I think Derry deserved the victory today. Don't think there's anyone outside of Monaghan that would disagree that they make every match a very dirty affair. The Derry boys tried to match that but Fergal Doherty's useless at it - just gets angry and stupid - and i didn't think he performed anywhere near his standards today because of it. Diver on the other hand seemed a lot more mature and focused than usual
I'm sure Mullan will get a suspension for that knee to the balls, although it may be slightly harsh. it's infuriating when someone starts that crap against you and i know that whenever someone starts itp against me, i always want to make sure i get the last dig in. it's possible he didn't aim to strike him in the balls, i'm sure he'll argue something like that anyway
I doubt Derry have any chance against either Tyrone or Armagh
Big win for us today we met fire with fire. Derry played Managhan at their own game and won. Should have won by more. Eoin Bradley should have had a few easy scores at the end. Paddy missed and easy free, he was then hauled to ground on the 21 going by his man, no free given :o. Should have won by 5 at full time. Derry can play football when they have too. Very differnet game in the semi final and football will be needed to win it, but as we have seen derry through the league they will play when they need to play. Today they showed they can play it anyway for the first time in along time.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 07:25:58 PM
Schkite, Monaghan v Kildare in the league, should have been men suspended for it. Ask most people and they'll agree.
Thats what really annoys me about this rules crap.
There were a number of clearly dangerous fouls/kicks/near decapitations in that Kildare game, all on tv and not a thing done about it. The rules are there to deal with this crap both during a game and after it by the CCCC. Guaranteed all week people will be rolled out in the media crying for the new rules to be brought back. Players get away with it and ofcourse they're going to keep doing it.
Woods did today exactly what he did that day, a childish little poke kick, when the refs back was turned.
If, as should have happened, he was given a month ban for that in the league, he surely wouldn't have been at it again today.
It's the GAA incompetence as much to blame here as any manager or team. Youi can certainly call a number of Monaghan men cynical but we don't need any new rules to deal with that.
(Just using Woods as a clear example as the evidence is there and well known, he was nowhere near the worst out there today)
Quote from: Chuck Lidl on May 24, 2009, 07:32:00 PM
I doubt Derry have any chance against either Tyrone or Armagh
I think you are wrong there mate!
Did anyone see the Monaghan Full back - i think it was Mone - letting on to kick Paddy Bradley in the head while paddy was down injuried ?
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 07:36:08 PM
Quote from: Chuck Lidl on May 24, 2009, 07:32:00 PM
I doubt Derry have any chance against either Tyrone or Armagh
I think you are wrong there mate!
a fully fit mark lynch, who played well when he came on today, Lockhart, presumably Cartin (what happened him?) Patsy Bradley and hopefullu Mc Cusker at some point. The next game will be entirely different. Don't forget Monaghan nearly beat Kerry playing that way.
There was a key difference between the teams today. Monaghan went out on the field today with no intention to play football. Derry went out on the field to play ball, but if occasion required it had no bother leaving an oul shoulder in there to let Monaghan know we're not to bad at the dirt ourselves.
We would of lost under previous management. Well done lads.
Any forget about Mark lynch lads, he adds nothing to a championship team.
Quote from: BobKelso on May 24, 2009, 07:40:48 PM
Any forget about Mark lynch lads, he adds nothing to a championship team.
Balls.
Missing JP Mone who is a huge miss for us, we don't the same resources as Derry to cope with injuries lest you forget. Paul McGuigan came on but not fit, he'd be a starter if he was at all fit this last while. And Lennon, well he might as well not been there in midfield, non-existant and the bad form clearly continuing.
Anyway, well done Derry and all the best. But it's awful hard to say that considering some of the shite you Derry ones are coming out with.
From a neutral perspective, bit of a damp squib really, with quality of play from both sides pretty poor.
No good cop, bad cop here. Both sides were equally guilty in the skull thuggery stakes. Derry seemed happy to show that they werent gonna be bullied again by Monaghan and were only too willing to get invloved in handbags and the like.
Monaghan were Monaghan, aggressive and confrontational, and really had they concentrated more on the basic skills of the game, rather than become invloved they could have taken this one.
Doherty deserved to go for second yellow, altho deserved straight red for drawing the boot on Clerkin.
Mullans act of cowardice should land him a month or so on the sidelines.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 07:42:10 PM
Now Whiskey Steve etc, you opinions on Chrissy Mc Kaigue after today please...would have preferred Brian og Mc Alary on. After his point he did very little.
Seems like a bit of a mouthpiece to me, bit of playacting late on too when he claimed Damien Freeman struck him, made a show of himself.
Also well done to Monaghan's Minors who kicked over some excellent points in the closing minutes, Derry were just holding out for a goal that was never going to come.
What was the craic with the numbers on the monagahan jerseys??
Quote from: WhoAreYaWhoAreYa! on May 24, 2009, 08:03:04 PM
What was the craic with the numbers on the monagahan jerseys??
Apparently the numbers on the back were made up of the names of the panel and backroom team! Don't understand it myself, seems a bit over the top, think the Irish rugby team did something like that didn't they?
I thoroughly enjoyed the game today. :)
Typical yapping on here and in the meedja when a game turns a bit cynical, sure its championship football the teams no each other well and Derry couldn't allow themselves to get bullied again, wtf did youse expect. Unless a game has less than 20 fouls and finishes 2-18 each gaa folk are lining up to have a go at the game, why does this negativity only happen in gaelic games and not among followers of other sports and in particular the media?
Was delighted with the win, thought GOK was excellent as were the McGoldricks. Still carrying too many players in the forward line however, QFs will probably be as far as this team will go I think but hopefully with a bit of luck could win Ulster.
Just in to the house this minute. This stewarding is hard work. First things first. Thanks be to god we seen a bit of football today- in the minor game. Very entertaining game. Monaghan deserved their victory, missed a bagful but fought for the win
Right senior game:
Listen folks, Clerkin is a t**ker who needs to get his head out of his hole and for someone to tell him he isn't really a county player. Same applies for Woods and D Mone. Think they are the big hard men who will beat the world, where the reality is they cant play football and go down at every opportunity. Now I am not defending Clerkin by any means because he was at it the whole game but the eye gouge attempt on Clerkin, Alan Quinlan would have been proud. Monaghan had no intention of playing football from the outset. The hard man approach and thinking you are Armagh does not work Banty. Only man that can hold his head up for Monaghan would be Darren Hughes. Never stopped trying for the 70 mins. Thought Derry let Monaghan try to do the boxing and they played the ball. Monaghan took their "eye off the ball" bigtime. Monaghan have missed the boat and no harm to them but there is only so many times you can go to the well.
Derry will go well this year I think but Brian Mullan wont see a whole pile. Looking at 8-12 weeks I would think
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 08:06:52 PM
Quote from: WhoAreYaWhoAreYa! on May 24, 2009, 08:03:04 PM
What was the craic with the numbers on the monagahan jerseys??
Apparently the numbers on the back were made up of the names of the panel and backroom team! Don't understand it myself, seems a bit over the top, think the Irish rugby team did something like that didn't they?
Concentrated on playing football wopuld be better suited to them
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 24, 2009, 07:47:26 PM
Quote from: BobKelso on May 24, 2009, 07:40:48 PM
Any forget about Mark lynch lads, he adds nothing to a championship team.
Balls.
No its not. Name away at his decent championship games.
Bar a goal off the bench against Mayo he may as well not been there.
Quote from: Rav67 on May 24, 2009, 08:09:28 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed the game today. :)
Typical yapping on here and in the meedja when a game turns a bit cynical, sure its championship football the teams no each other well and Derry couldn't allow themselves to get bullied again, wtf did youse expect. Unless a game has less than 20 fouls and finishes 2-18 each gaa folk are lining up to have a go at the game, why does this negativity only happen in gaelic games and not among followers of other sports and in particular the media?
Was delighted with the win, thought GOK was excellent as were the McGoldricks. Still carrying too many players in the forward line however, QFs will probably be as far as this team will go I think but hopefully with a bit of luck could win Ulster.
Can't agree.It was a dreadful advert for Gaelic Football. Unless there is some effort made to cut the cynical fouling and the off the ball stuff out of the game. It is going to be ruined. We've got other sports getting more and more popular in this country. Crap like the 2nd half last week and that garbage today is playing into their hands. That today was as bad as I've seen for a few years.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 07:42:10 PM
Now Whiskey Steve etc, you opinions on Chrissy Mc Kaigue after today please...would have preferred Brian og Mc Alary on. After his point he did very little.
oakleaker93-read over some of your last posts. have you nothing better to be at? you have to be the silliest poster on this board, an embarrasment at the best of times.
mckaigue did a good job today for a player who has little c'ship experience and who only found out they would be playing soon before the game. whilst i do not advocate the play acting he took a good score and was played a good role in a well organised halfback line
also i am glad derry stood up for themselves today. much better than everyone cursing them up and down if they were bullied and lost.
some folk are never happy
ps lynch has something to offer bobkelso-catch yourself on
take off the county coloured goggles lads.
Mc Cloy, Mc Guckin and B Mc Goldrick were acting as big a c***ts all day long as were D Mone, Clerkin, Woods.
Quote from: Yes I Would on May 24, 2009, 08:16:30 PM
take off the county coloured goggles lads.
Mc Cloy, Mc Guckin and B Mc Goldrick were acting as big a c***ts all day long as were D Mone, Clerkin, Woods.
Finally a bit of sense!
Oakleafer would you cop onto yourself, you really know how to rub it in don't you! Ever heard of being gracious in victory? Now you're pouring scorn on all of Monaghan's games in recent times. As we've nowhere near the resources of bigger counties like yourselves we have to play on the edge with alot of intensity in an attempt to compete. Losing anyone to injury is a huge loss, unlike yourselves where yous have a heap of boys ready to step in seemlessly.
Quote from: Yes I Would on May 24, 2009, 08:16:30 PM
take off the county coloured goggles lads.
Mc Cloy, Mc Guckin and B Mc Goldrick were acting as big a c***ts all day long as were D Mone, Clerkin, Woods.
As a fellow neutral I'd tend to agree with you. From what was caught on camera Derry looked every bit as bad as, if not worse than, Monaghan. Maybe other stuff went on that wasn't picked up on TV, I dunno :-\
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 08:21:55 PM
Quote from: Yes I Would on May 24, 2009, 08:16:30 PM
take off the county coloured goggles lads.
Mc Cloy, Mc Guckin and B Mc Goldrick were acting as big a c***ts all day long as were D Mone, Clerkin, Woods.
Monaghan as many have said had never any intention of playing football, Derry just fought fire with fire and won simple as that. Woods, Clerkin D Mone are no angels and Hanratty at the end with Mc Cloy, Mc Cloys bigger so he's obviously going to come off better from it but it takes 2 to tango.
Like I said before, name another game Derry have played with that style, better still name a game Monaghan haven't.
Did you actually see this incident? McGuckian and McCloy were pushing Hanratty and Downey around like ragdolls, them wee boys aren't stupid enough to go looking for trouble with these brutes. Then you have Gillis running out of goal to get Hanratty in a headlock, and McCloy does the same.
And lets not forget this is Cassidy's championship debut, maybe he intends on playing every game like this! :P I doubt you'd be as critical of it then! When it's Monaghan you say we have no intention of playing football, when it's Derry they're fighting with fire in their bellies, they were both the same FFS!
BBC usually have a few clips from the minor and senior games, would they be up yet?
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 08:35:52 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 08:27:14 PM
Quote from: Yes I Would on May 24, 2009, 08:16:30 PM
take off the county coloured goggles lads.
Mc Cloy, Mc Guckin and B Mc Goldrick were acting as big a c***ts all day long as were D Mone, Clerkin, Woods.
Finally a bit of sense!
Oakleafer would you cop onto yourself, you really know how to rub it in don't you! Ever heard of being gracious in victory? Now you're pouring scorn on all of Monaghan's games in recent times. As we've nowhere near the resources of bigger counties like yourselves we have to play on the edge with alot of intensity in an attempt to compete. Losing anyone to injury is a huge loss, unlike yourselves where yous have a heap of boys ready to step in seemlessly.
What I am trying to say is Monaghan are reknown in recent years for playing this type of football Derry aren't, so the reason most blame is being heaped on monaghan are from these reasons.
No its because your from Derry and cant admit that Derry's antics in
todays game were every bit as nasty and negative as Monaghans, if not worse!
I would agree that Monaghan have gained a reputation for 'rough' football but Derry were no saints today. The match was nothing but a bad advert for football (Ulster football in particular) and another gift card for those in favour of the experimental rules used in the league. We need a good game soon to set the record straight. I just hope Armagh can step up to the plate next week because we all know Tyrone will.
Yes, most of the blame from the Derry crowd by the looks of it, no surprise there. Neutrals seem to see the true story, both sides were guilty of it being that type of game.
Maybe Cassidy will continue playing like this, why change a winning system right? :-X All I'm saying is you'll be singing an entirely different tune should a similar game be played in the semi-final, I suppose it would then be either Tyrone/Armagh's fault. As you said, it takes two to tango.
It will be interesting to see how many the CCCC pick on this week.
Mullan will definitely be called - Fegal Doc might get away with the kick but not the gouging. Monaghan lads were swingin wildly at one stage as well and there could well be a few of them in the dock.
RTE.IE
An ill-tempered Ulster SFC tie at Celtic Park provided the rules legislators with a compelling argument for a fresh look at reform.
A game peppered with late challenges, ugly clashes and all manner of unsavoury incidents ended in a three point win for Derry.
That Donegal referee Jimmy White sent off just one player, Derry's
Fergal Doherty, and booked only six, was an amazing statistic.
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 07:16:13 PM
I don't think Mullan was as devious as everyone is making out.
McManus rugby tackled the man for Gods sake - where's the referee for Gods sake?
In fairness if McManus wants to drag the game down to that level he deserves a knee in the jewels.
Oh and the ref does too!
Yes but the difference is Mullen will be getting a ban while McManus won't, what does that tell you about which was worse? People get dragged off the ball all the time, especially in Ulster, but you don't see scumbags kneeing fellas in the balls every week.
If Mullan gets a ban it's a disgrace
He was dragged to the ground - ref hadn't the balls to blow a whistle and he lashed out trying to get up - he appeared to connect with him and McManus cried on the ground trying to get him sent off ...
Scumbags are guys dragging men down then acting like they were shot to get men sent off
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 07:38:03 PM
Did anyone see the Monaghan Full back - i think it was Mone - letting on to kick Paddy Bradley in the head while paddy was down injuried ?
I think he was signaling to the linesman that someone ;) stood on his back when he was on the ground... basically saying "did you not see the stamp linesman??"
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on May 24, 2009, 07:38:03 PM
Did anyone see the Monaghan Full back - i think it was Mone - letting on to kick Paddy Bradley in the head while paddy was down injuried ?
Well that shows you all the football that is in him
BBC coverage.
========
1) The BBC's man on the side line must win something for having the longest eyelashes ever. Girls like it for some reason.
2) After Thomas Kane had interviewed 3 Derry Hi players, Austin apologised for the poor sound on the interview. How did Austin know that my wife chose to hoover the living room during the interview?
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 07:16:13 PM
I don't think Mullan was as devious as everyone is making out.
McManus rugby tackled the man for Gods sake - where's the referee for Gods sake?
In fairness if McManus wants to drag the game down to that level he deserves a knee in the jewels.
Oh and the ref does too!
Yes but the difference is Mullen will be getting a ban while McManus won't, what does that tell you about which was worse? People get dragged off the ball all the time, especially in Ulster, but you don't see scumbags kneeing fellas in the balls every week.
If Mullan gets a ban it's a disgraceHe was dragged to the ground - ref hadn't the balls to blow a whistle and he lashed out trying to get up - he appeared to connect with him and McManus cried on the ground trying to get him sent off ...
Scumbags are guys dragging men down then acting like they were shot to get men sent off
I reckon he's a certainty for a suspension.
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 07:48:18 PM
Missing JP Mone who is a huge miss for us, we don't the same resources as Derry to cope with injuries lest you forget. Paul McGuigan came on but not fit, he'd be a starter if he was at all fit this last while. And Lennon, well he might as well not been there in midfield, non-existant and the bad form clearly continuing.
Anyway, well done Derry and all the best. But it's awful hard to say that considering some of the shite you Derry ones are coming out with.
Even with those changes Monaghan wouldn't have been much different
What an absolute disgraceful game that was....the quality of football and shooting was poor enough but the amount of sheer rubbish mouthing off, late tackles, 3rd man tackles, off the ball fighting, etc was disgraceful....The Doc was unbelievably lucky to last as long as he did...Should have got a 2nd yellow for the blatant trip just after his first yellow, should have got a straight red for the kick and a straight red for hitting McQuaid who didn't have the ball at all....
Siddie was in good form today... "hes harder than a physics A level" :D
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 09:11:42 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 07:16:13 PM
I don't think Mullan was as devious as everyone is making out.
McManus rugby tackled the man for Gods sake - where's the referee for Gods sake?
In fairness if McManus wants to drag the game down to that level he deserves a knee in the jewels.
Oh and the ref does too!
Yes but the difference is Mullen will be getting a ban while McManus won't, what does that tell you about which was worse? People get dragged off the ball all the time, especially in Ulster, but you don't see scumbags kneeing fellas in the balls every week.
If Mullan gets a ban it's a disgrace
He was dragged to the ground - ref hadn't the balls to blow a whistle and he lashed out trying to get up - he appeared to connect with him and McManus cried on the ground trying to get him sent off ...
Scumbags are guys dragging men down then acting like they were shot to get men sent off
Bollocks!
How is it bollocks?
What are you going to do - let idiots drag men down and not let them defend themselves?
A man has a right to defend himself - and if McManus is man enough to drag a man to the ground he should be man enough to defend himself on it - not cry when he gets burnt.
He proper rugby tackled Mullan
For what its worth my opinion is that Monaghan were the instigators of the roughness in the game. They were also the more negative. But I suppose in a way you can't blame them. Football is about winning and Monaghan knew that the two Bradleys will do serious damage if played one on one against the Monaghan backs. They crowded t he back and tried to slow the ball in. When confronted with that Derry had to fight fire with fire. Shite game but I think Derry will have more to offer in the next rounds and I'd expect them to give Ulster a right lash
Was at the match today and agree with an earlier post that there was some good football in the minor match. Plenty of mistakes and missed goal chances but good stuff and great scores.
The senior game had some of the crap off the ball stuff from before the first minute. Both teams are to blame for this though I believe Derrys showed up worse on the telly. But as a monaghan supporter this game was there for the taking but we didn't push on after the sending off. We needed an extra attacker at that stage and we stuck with the extra defender. Big mistake.
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 09:19:42 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:15:47 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 09:11:42 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 07:16:13 PM
I don't think Mullan was as devious as everyone is making out.
McManus rugby tackled the man for Gods sake - where's the referee for Gods sake?
In fairness if McManus wants to drag the game down to that level he deserves a knee in the jewels.
Oh and the ref does too!
Yes but the difference is Mullen will be getting a ban while McManus won't, what does that tell you about which was worse? People get dragged off the ball all the time, especially in Ulster, but you don't see scumbags kneeing fellas in the balls every week.
If Mullan gets a ban it's a disgrace
He was dragged to the ground - ref hadn't the balls to blow a whistle and he lashed out trying to get up - he appeared to connect with him and McManus cried on the ground trying to get him sent off ...
Scumbags are guys dragging men down then acting like they were shot to get men sent off
Bollocks!
How is it bollocks?
What are you going to do - let idiots drag men down and not let them defend themselves?
A man has a right to defend himself - and if McManus is man enough to drag a man to the ground he should be man enough to defend himself on it - not cry when he gets burnt.
He proper rugby tackled Mullan
They were on the ground pulling and hauling. Mullan lined him up and stuck his knee in McManus' tools.
Translation "I only see what I want to see"
The way is see it is this....before the ball was even thrown in Mone had started punching Paddy Bradley in the back...the umpire told the ref who had a wee look and threw the ball in. This set the tone for Monaghan. They knew they would get away with it so what was stopping them?
Derry started off at a blistering pace and in the first 10 mins actually looked like running away with it. McKaigue fluffed a goal chance which would have put us about 6 in front and from then on in Monaghan resorted to form with the dirt. Plain and simple...dirt. No other way of explaining it. In that first half Derry got zero protection from the ref and bar one or two occassions didnt retaliate which is a credit to them.
Clerkin (one of the dirtyest players I have ever seen) should have got his second yellow after the half time whistle but again it was let go.
Cassidy obviously told his players to be more agressive in the second half and I for one am glad he did. If the referee isnt protecting you, you have to stand up for yourself. When Monaghan then realised they werent going to be able to bully derry any longer, even after Docs dismissal, the footballers came to the fore again, the bully's heads dropped and sealed the game for Derry.
Monaghan had no intention of playing football. This must be the "manliness" that Banty was scared of losing if the rule changes were implemented. Monaghan have 5-6 really good footballers....the rest are average at best...but if they were actually coached to play football they would be at least as successfull as they have been with the dirt. If I was from Monaghan I would want to see them try to play football.
Derry are a footballing side. But today, for the first time in a long time they stood up the the "toughness" of another team. If Derry are playing a footballing team I doubt you would see much of the type of thing that happened today. So I'm looking forward to another Ulster Championship match against a proper footballing side.
I didnt see the knee to the nuts, but if that happened it deserves to be punished. No excuse for it.
Had Paul Galvin done what Brian Mullan did today there would be calls for Galvin to get at least 6 months.
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 09:19:42 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:15:47 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 09:11:42 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 07:16:13 PM
I don't think Mullan was as devious as everyone is making out.
McManus rugby tackled the man for Gods sake - where's the referee for Gods sake?
In fairness if McManus wants to drag the game down to that level he deserves a knee in the jewels.
Oh and the ref does too!
Yes but the difference is Mullen will be getting a ban while McManus won't, what does that tell you about which was worse? People get dragged off the ball all the time, especially in Ulster, but you don't see scumbags kneeing fellas in the balls every week.
If Mullan gets a ban it's a disgrace
He was dragged to the ground - ref hadn't the balls to blow a whistle and he lashed out trying to get up - he appeared to connect with him and McManus cried on the ground trying to get him sent off ...
Scumbags are guys dragging men down then acting like they were shot to get men sent off
Bollocks!
How is it bollocks?
What are you going to do - let idiots drag men down and not let them defend themselves?
A man has a right to defend himself - and if McManus is man enough to drag a man to the ground he should be man enough to defend himself on it - not cry when he gets burnt.
He proper rugby tackled Mullan
They were on the ground pulling and hauling. Mullan lined him up and stuck his knee in McManus' tools.
Exactly, watch it again on the Sunday Game in about half an hour. Mullan had more or less freed himself from the tangle when he sunk the knee in, so your flimsy self defence excuse is moot. He'll fully deserve the suspension he's gonna get.
What makes it worse for Mullan was that he had a good look around to see if anyone was watching him - when he saw that the ref was otherwise engaged he let Mc Manus have it.
JMohan you're talking some shite. I'll assume you haven't seen the incident as it was caught by the cameras yet. If you have and still think like that, then you need to seek help.
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 09:27:18 PM
What makes it worse for Mullan was that he had a good look around to see if anyone was watching him - when he saw that the ref was otherwise engaged he let Mc Manus have it.
Mullan will be rightly suspended for his actions, but this is pure and utter nonsense.
It was a poor game but I never expected it to be anything else. Regarding the negativity that was on display throughout, Derry where as guilt as Monaghan. They did what it took to win and if they hadnt the derry support would have been condemning them for laying done again.
As regards the posters who have been calling players on either side "scumbags" and similar they need to take a long hard look at themselves.
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 24, 2009, 09:31:19 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 09:27:18 PM
What makes it worse for Mullan was that he had a good look around to see if anyone was watching him - when he saw that the ref was otherwise engaged he let Mc Manus have it.
Mullan will be rightly suspended for his actions, but this is pure and utter nonsense.
It was a poor game but I never expected it to be anything else. Regarding the negativity that was on display throughout, Derry where as guilt as Monaghan. They did what it took to win and if they hadnt the derry support would have been condemning them for laying done again.
As regards the posters who have been calling players on either side "scumbags" and similar they need to take a long hard look at themselves.
Have a look at it tonight and tell me what you think. Maybe I'm being sore on him and if I am I apologise - but that's the way it looked to me.
As a brief aside to the talk about the fcuk-acting around that went on today ...
I thought the camera work today was absolutely terrible. From showing replays when the play was going on, to showing players not involved in the play, to numerous other mistakes, this game was one of the worst in terms of production that I've seen in a long time. FFS RTE, you have been at it long enough. Get it right!!
Now back to the discussion on whether a man who knees someone in the crotch did right or wrong ... ::)
Quote from: RMDrive on May 24, 2009, 09:35:43 PM
As a brief aside to the talk about the fcuk-acting around that went on today ...
I thought the camera work today was absolutely terrible. From showing replays when the play was going on, to showing players not involved in the play, to numerous other mistakes, this game was one of the worst in terms of production that I've seen in a long time. FFS RTE, you have been at it long enough. Get it right!!
Now back to the discussion on whether a man who knees someone in the crotch did right or wrong ... ::)
A shambles alright - the producer or whoever is responsible should be brought to that lad Mullan this week to get a knee in the balls !! ;) ;) :D :D
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 09:29:07 PM
JMohan you're talking some shite. I'll assume you haven't seen the incident as it was caught by the cameras yet. If you have and still think like that, then you need to seek help.
Funny that I was wondering if you were listening to it on the radio myself.
Watch it again - first of all if you rugby tackle a man and you're both on the ground trying to wrestle to say it was a deliberate knee in the balls is a very brave accusation.
As for the clowns saying he looked up before he did it - bollox.
Anyway - my point is the first offense was committed by McManus - if the ref had any balls he could have stopped anything esle from happening - instead he let play on... after rugby tackle!
Crazy stuff.
Quote from: RMDrive on May 24, 2009, 09:35:43 PM
As a brief aside to the talk about the fcuk-acting around that went on today ...
I thought the camera work today was absolutely terrible. From showing replays when the play was going on, to showing players not involved in the play, to numerous other mistakes, this game was one of the worst in terms of production that I've seen in a long time. FFS RTE, you have been at it long enough. Get it right!!
Now back to the discussion on whether a man who knees someone in the crotch did right or wrong ... ::)
Aye, in a game of only 21 scores the knobheads in charge managed to miss 4 or 5 of them by showing stupid replays. I think 2 points were missed in the first half cuz they were repeatedly showing replays of Derry's goal.
My biggest problem is with the GAA after todays game
STOP creating rules just BLOODY IMPLEMENT THE ONES WE HAVE
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 09:41:44 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:40:19 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 09:29:07 PM
JMohan you're talking some shite. I'll assume you haven't seen the incident as it was caught by the cameras yet. If you have and still think like that, then you need to seek help.
Funny that I was wondering if you were listening to it on the radio myself.
Watch it again - first of all if you rugby tackle a man and you're both on the ground trying to wrestle to say it was a deliberate knee in the balls is a very brave accusation.
As for the clowns saying he looked up before he did it - bollox.
Anyway - my point is the first offense was committed by McManus - if the ref had any balls he could have stopped anything esle from happening - instead he let play on... after rugby tackle!
Crazy stuff.
Nonsense.
One word contributions about sum up your addition to this debate
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:40:19 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 09:29:07 PM
JMohan you're talking some shite. I'll assume you haven't seen the incident as it was caught by the cameras yet. If you have and still think like that, then you need to seek help.
Funny that I was wondering if you were listening to it on the radio myself.
Watch it again - first of all if you rugby tackle a man and you're both on the ground trying to wrestle to say it was a deliberate knee in the balls is a very brave accusation.
As for the clowns saying he looked up before he did it - bollox.
Anyway - my point is the first offense was committed by McManus - if the ref had any balls he could have stopped anything esle from happening - instead he let play on... after rugby tackle!
Crazy stuff.
So by your reckoning if a player is taken out by a third man tackle or something similar he is entitled to have a dig at the man who done it?
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:42:23 PM
My biggest problem is with the GAA after todays game
STOP creating rules just BLOODY IMPLEMENT THE ONES WE HAVE
Exactly.
This can't be used as an argument to bring back the experimental nonsense.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 09:43:56 PM
Rewatching the match I see Tommy freeman got a wee headbutt in on Mc Guckin...
Definitely - I made reference to this earlier.
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 24, 2009, 09:46:23 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:42:23 PM
My biggest problem is with the GAA after todays game
STOP creating rules just BLOODY IMPLEMENT THE ONES WE HAVE
Exactly.
This can't be used as an argument to bring back the experimental nonsense.
But sadly don't you know we'll have more bloody rules and they won't be implemented either ...
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 09:43:56 PM
Rewatching the match I see Tommy freeman got a wee headbutt in on Mc Guckin...
I hope you intend on pointing out all the Derry incidents too.
Incidentally, after watching the Mullen knee incident again, yes McManus had his arms around him but Mullen had his arm around McManus head while they fell, watch it again. You could say McManus had every right to tackle him because Mullen had him by the head... ::)
Regardless of what happened in the build-up, to condone a knee to the balls is bullshit.
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 09:51:30 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 09:43:56 PM
Rewatching the match I see Tommy freeman got a wee headbutt in on Mc Guckin...
I hope you intend on pointing out all the Derry incidents too.
Incidentally, after watching the Mullen knee incident again, yes McManus had his arms around him but Mullen had his arm around McManus head while they fell, watch it again. You could say McManus had every right to tackle him because Mullen had him by the head... ::)
Regardless of what happened in the build-up, to condone a knee to the balls is bullshit.
But we'll condone a rugby tackle?
Actually - my money is on Doc getting cited for the kick to Clerkin off the ball
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:55:37 PM
Actually - my money is on Doc getting cited for the kick to Clerkin off the ball
And after that my money is on a successful appeal. ;)
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:54:55 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 09:51:30 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 24, 2009, 09:43:56 PM
Rewatching the match I see Tommy freeman got a wee headbutt in on Mc Guckin...
I hope you intend on pointing out all the Derry incidents too.
Incidentally, after watching the Mullen knee incident again, yes McManus had his arms around him but Mullen had his arm around McManus head while they fell, watch it again. You could say McManus had every right to tackle him because Mullen had him by the head... ::)
Regardless of what happened in the build-up, to condone a knee to the balls is bullshit.
But we'll condone a rugby tackle?
Would this be Fergal Doc's rugby tackle in first half? When he should have got his 2nd yellow and been sent off earlier than he did.
Is it as bad as a knee to the balls?
As I say, I don't think it was a clear tackle as you say it is. McManus goes up to catch the ball, Mullen comes from behind and breaks it away, and leaves the arm around McManus's head. McManus wraps his arms around him and their legs get tangled and they go down. I can see how it can be seen as a rugby tackle, but McManus isn't a player who usually would be fit to do that and wouldn't try! Even if he did, you're seriously saying he deserved a knee to the balls for his efforts?! Alot of pulling and dragging goes on in alot of games, but as I said earlier you don't see a knee to the balls after every such incident.
Fergal Doherty and Mullan should both face suspensions for what they did.
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 09:57:11 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:55:37 PM
Actually - my money is on Doc getting cited for the kick to Clerkin off the ball
And after that my money is on a successful appeal. ;)
Yeh - tho the last time he didn't appeal - if I remember correctly
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:01:21 PM
Is it as bad as a knee to the balls?
As I say, I don't think it was a clear tackle as you say it is. McManus goes up to catch the ball, Mullen comes from behind and breaks it away, and leaves the arm around McManus's head. McManus wraps his arms around him and their legs get tangled and they go down. I can see how it can be seen as a rugby tackle, but McManus isn't a player who usually would be fit to do that and wouldn't try! Even if he did, you're seriously saying he deserved a knee to the balls for his efforts?! Alot of pulling and dragging goes on in alot of games, but as I said earlier you don't see a knee to the balls after every such incident.
You see this is my problem
Everyone is now rushing to call Mullan a sc**bag and throw the book at him when the guy who started it and committed the first offense walks and the ref hasn't the balls to blow the whistle.
So the sum total is .... we encourage guys to pull players down and don't penalise them - but when the tackled retalitates we throw the book at him?
Something wrong with that.
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 10:07:32 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 09:57:11 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 09:55:37 PM
Actually - my money is on Doc getting cited for the kick to Clerkin off the ball
And after that my money is on a successful appeal. ;)
Yeh - tho the last time he didn't appeal - if I remember correctly
True - he should have that time.
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 24, 2009, 09:31:19 PM
As regards the posters who have been calling players on either side "scumbags" and similar they need to take a long hard look at themselves.
I would have to agree here. These boys are like you and me, GAA players and members. Scumbags and tramps, they certainly arent.
One thing is abundantly clear following today's game...neither Derry or Monaghan will be climbing the steps of the Hogan anytime this year.
Quote from: balladmaker on May 24, 2009, 10:12:16 PM
One thing is abundantly clear following today's game...neither Derry or Monaghan will be climbing the steps of the Hogan anytime this year.
I would agree, although before today I didn't think that either.
I was near the Miullan incident. Saw it well. Must say, I was definitely pleased. The Monaghan man did the dirty on Mullan. Mullan got him back. The Monaghan man dropped like a bag of shite. If you are going to dish it out you can't complain. Didn't stop Monaghan, who were low for so much of the game. P Bradley was so abused for the whole game and unbelievebly got booked before the game ended, for zilch.
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 10:17:08 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 10:11:02 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:01:21 PM
Is it as bad as a knee to the balls?
As I say, I don't think it was a clear tackle as you say it is. McManus goes up to catch the ball, Mullen comes from behind and breaks it away, and leaves the arm around McManus's head. McManus wraps his arms around him and their legs get tangled and they go down. I can see how it can be seen as a rugby tackle, but McManus isn't a player who usually would be fit to do that and wouldn't try! Even if he did, you're seriously saying he deserved a knee to the balls for his efforts?! Alot of pulling and dragging goes on in alot of games, but as I said earlier you don't see a knee to the balls after every such incident.
You see this is my problem
Everyone is now rushing to call Mullan a sc**bag and throw the book at him when the guy who started it and committed the first offense walks and the ref hasn't the balls to blow the whistle.
So the sum total is .... we encourage guys to pull players down and don't penalise them - but when the tackled retalitates we throw the book at him?
Something wrong with that.
I didn't call him a sc**bag/tr**p. He pulled a stroke which was far worse than McManus'. He should be suspended. McManus shouldn't be.
Stupid arguement you have. It's like me pulling your jersey and you chinning me and then saying "He started it".
Wise up.
You haven't obviously played the game much or at all at any serious level.
There are rules there - you let one guy get away with a stupid tackle and don't intervene and then expect Mullan to lie down with Mcmnaus on top of him?
In and Ulster Championship match?
Clown.
No one saying people are allowed to knee someone in the balls - but McManus can't drag someone down and whinge at the consequences.
Controversial incidents galore coming up now on Sunday Game.
Mc Cloy is a strong boy.
See the attempt at an eye-gouge by Doherty?
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:27:13 PM
See the attempt at an eye-gouge by Doherty?
Quinlan 12 weeks. Good job it's not rugby ............ oops - there's a rugby tackle !
You have to protect players and enforce the rules - you can't suspend Mullan and let McManus off scot free!
What kind of signal does that give?
Did he have a wee look around to see if he was being watched ?
Quote from: currychip on May 24, 2009, 10:23:21 PM
I was near the Miullan incident. Saw it well. Must say, I was definitely pleased. The Monaghan man did the dirty on Mullan. Mullan got him back. The Monaghan man dropped like a bag of shite. If you are going to dish it out you can't complain. Didn't stop Monaghan, who were low for so much of the game. P Bradley was so abused for the whole game and unbelievebly got booked before the game ended, for zilch.
Thank God one Derry man isn't in the pub!
Surrounded by sore losers
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 10:30:34 PM
Did he have a wee look around to see if he was being watched ?
That was after
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 10:24:02 PM
No one saying people are allowed to knee someone in the balls - but McManus can't drag someone down and whinge at the consequences.
You cant defend this JM. There is simply no room in the game for what Brian done. None whatso ever
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:27:13 PM
See the attempt at an eye-gouge by Doherty?
How do you know it was an attempt an that. Clerkin came in to try and out muscle Doc off the ball. Fergal took a dislike and the two choked each other to the ground.
Fergal's second yellow wasn't merited ??????????????? Is he serious ???????????
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 10:30:34 PM
Did he have a wee look around to see if he was being watched ?
He didnt. They must have some size of balls in Monaghan if Mullan is supposed to have struck him in them. A knee into the midriff and likely to recieve a month for his actions.
Paddy Bradley is an awesome footballer.
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 10:31:55 PM
Your aul ballix. Mullan had him in a headlock. McManus had him around the ribs and Mullan did look up and sink the knee in him.
Good luck to Mullan, he'll kneed it.
Ha ha ... bias and twisted
Can't you be good losers?
Quote from: the green man on May 24, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:27:13 PM
See the attempt at an eye-gouge by Doherty?
How do you know it was an attempt an that. Clerkin came in to try and out muscle Doc off the ball. Fergal took a dislike and the two choked each other to the ground.
I was just wondering how anyone else saw it. Heard from someone after that was sitting at that far side with a better view and they reckoned there was something in it. All I saw was when Dick was on the ground you could see Doherty's left hand come round to his face, but sure you couldn't see much after that. Think there's a photo on sportsfile that you can see it a bit better.
The Mullan incident looked even worse there. If anything I think he was more the instigator of that tussle.
Fair play to Anthony - he didn't shy away.
Definite attempt at headbutt by Freeman there.
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 10:33:30 PM
Fergal's second yellow wasn't merited ??????????????? Is he serious ???????????
What foul would it come under? Seemed to be a dunt/shoulder. If youre going to yellow for that, then Mone and McArdle would have been carded before the throw in
doherty should get a suspension for that kick
if that was mcmenamin they would be going mad on the sunday game
however they brushed it under the carpet cos hes big Anthonys mate
So let me get this right ... the ball came into play between the two men ... Mullan grabbed McManus, wrestled him to the ground and kneed him the balls?
I give up - truly not worth the effort.
Just say 'Well Done' and we'll leave it at that.
If Paul Galvin had kicked, gouged, headbutted, kneed someone then there would have been an outcry.
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 24, 2009, 10:38:49 PM
doherty should get a suspension for that kick
if that was mcmenamin they would be going mad on the sunday game
however they brushed it under the carpet cos hes big Anthonys mate
Are they showing a different version of the Sunday Game in the part of Tyrone your in? He tried to trip him, there wasnt a kick.
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 10:37:12 PM
Mullan had him in the headlock before McManus grabbed him! FFS JMohan, wise up!
No he didnt. Mullan broke the ball, advanced a bit and McManus bear hugged him to the ground
Of course
Monaghan were innocent - let big Dick, Dessie, McmNaus off and lets throw the book at the Bradleys, Mullan and Doc?
Awww - must be hard to lose. At least Derry took it on the chin last year.
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 10:37:12 PM
Mullan had him in the headlock before McManus grabbed him! FFS JMohan, wise up!
Yep, that's how I saw it, Mullen had McManus by the head after he broke the ball, McManus had Mullen around the chest, they fell to the ground in a bundle. Not a sore loser as we kicked ourselves out of it in the first half, but JMohan you must be on the wind up to suggest Mullen doesn't deserve a ban for a dirty act like that.
Quote from: the green man on May 24, 2009, 10:40:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 10:37:12 PM
Mullan had him in the headlock before McManus grabbed him! FFS JMohan, wise up!
No he didnt. Mullan broke the ball, advanced a bit and McManus bear hugged him to the ground
Thank you
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 24, 2009, 10:40:31 PM
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 24, 2009, 10:38:49 PM
doherty should get a suspension for that kick
if that was mcmenamin they would be going mad on the sunday game
however they brushed it under the carpet cos hes big Anthonys mate
Are they showing a different version of the Sunday Game in the part of Tyrone your in? He tried to trip him, there wasnt a kick.
ack now come on
sure they are only after saying that he kicked him
it was a kick
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:37:52 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 24, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:27:13 PM
See the attempt at an eye-gouge by Doherty?
How do you know it was an attempt an that. Clerkin came in to try and out muscle Doc off the ball. Fergal took a dislike and the two choked each other to the ground.
I was just wondering how anyone else saw it. Heard from someone after that was sitting at that far side with a better view and they reckoned there was something in it. All I saw was when Dick was on the ground you could see Doherty's left hand come round to his face, but sure you couldn't see much after that. Think there's a photo on sportsfile that you can see it a bit better.
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/355249/5000/
Joe Brolly will be popular in Monaghan after saying he was delighed to see them out of the championship - sounded a bit like Keegan.
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 10:41:06 PM
Well, what did happen, in your eyes?
FFS, have a look at it.
I've no idea how you can defend him.
McManus pulled him down. Should have been a free to Derry, which is irrelevant. They both wrestled on the ground, Mullan was about to get up but before he did he drove his knee into the midrife of McManus. If seen by the officials it would have been a straight red card for striking.
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:42:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 10:37:12 PM
Mullan had him in the headlock before McManus grabbed him! FFS JMohan, wise up!
Yep, that's how I saw it, Mullen had McManus by the head after he broke the ball, McManus had Mullen around the chest, they fell to the ground in a bundle. Not a sore loser as we kicked ourselves out of it in the first half, but JMohan you must be on the wind up to suggest Mullen doesn't deserve a ban for a dirty act like that.
No - my point is you can't ban Mullan and let McManus off
If McManus had played fair and was manly about it he'd have just got on with the game, you can't do that and expect a man to roll over for you.
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 10:41:06 PM
Well, what did happen, in your eyes?
FFS, have a look at it.
I've no idea how you can defend him.
I'm not defending him, as a previuos post would suggest. I just pulling you on your bare faced lie. You say that Mullan had McManus in a headlock long before McManus grabbed Mullan. This is simply not true. Mullan broke the ball forward, advanced to get it, McManus then hauled him down and bad things happened after that. I can't really see how you can view it any other way.
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:37:52 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 24, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:27:13 PM
See the attempt at an eye-gouge by Doherty?
How do you know it was an attempt an that. Clerkin came in to try and out muscle Doc off the ball. Fergal took a dislike and the two choked each other to the ground.
I was just wondering how anyone else saw it. Heard from someone after that was sitting at that far side with a better view and they reckoned there was something in it. All I saw was when Dick was on the ground you could see Doherty's left hand come round to his face, but sure you couldn't see much after that. Think there's a photo on sportsfile that you can see it a bit better.
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/355249/5000/
That picture isn't good - but thankfully gouging is a rugby offence. No charges here.
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 24, 2009, 10:43:10 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 24, 2009, 10:40:31 PM
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 24, 2009, 10:38:49 PM
doherty should get a suspension for that kick
if that was mcmenamin they would be going mad on the sunday game
however they brushed it under the carpet cos hes big Anthonys mate
Are they showing a different version of the Sunday Game in the part of Tyrone your in? He tried to trip him, there wasnt a kick.
ack now come on
sue they are only after saying that he kicked him
it was a kick
Sam,
Im only calling it as I see it. If thats a kick then there would be a dozen of them in every game. He was a lucky boy to still be on the field at that stage as a fussier ref would have given him a second yellow for the ankle tap in the first half.
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:37:52 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 24, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:27:13 PM
See the attempt at an eye-gouge by Doherty?
How do you know it was an attempt an that. Clerkin came in to try and out muscle Doc off the ball. Fergal took a dislike and the two choked each other to the ground.
I was just wondering how anyone else saw it. Heard from someone after that was sitting at that far side with a better view and they reckoned there was something in it. All I saw was when Dick was on the ground you could see Doherty's left hand come round to his face, but sure you couldn't see much after that. Think there's a photo on sportsfile that you can see it a bit better.
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/355249/5000/
Yeah that's the one. Not a great view of it but you can make out Doherty's hand over Clerkin's eyes, and that hand was totally missed by the TV cameras. Doubt he'll get pulled up on it.
Jimmy White is an old style ref and the players took full advantage of Jimmy's let it go style.
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 10:45:47 PM
That picture isn't good - but thankfully gouging is a rugby offence. No charges here.
Are we to conveniently forget Clerkins knee into Dohertys ribs just prior to this incident, just because sportsfile didnt capture it? This is going to turn into whataboutery very shortly. I am aware that most of the Farney posters are happy to leave it here, yet others seem keen to highlight every misdemeanour that happened during the game. Its a championship game. Things happen. Far too much Sky Sports style analysis.
Edited for poor speling
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 24, 2009, 10:44:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 10:41:06 PM
Well, what did happen, in your eyes?
FFS, have a look at it.
I've no idea how you can defend him.
McManus pulled him down. Should have been a free to Derry, which is irrelevant. They both wrestled on the ground, Mullan was about to get up but before he did he drove his knee into the midrife of McManus. If seen by the officials it would have been a straight red card for striking.
Thats exactly what happened from where I was sitting.
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 24, 2009, 10:02:22 PM
Fergal Doherty and Mullan should both face suspensions for what they did.
Tommy freeman should for the headbutt....and mone should for the sneaky punch before the game started....
The punch before will never count or be used
To be fair Dessie Moen has got away with alot over the years!
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 10:45:47 PM
Quote from: AFS on May 24, 2009, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:37:52 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 24, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:27:13 PM
See the attempt at an eye-gouge by Doherty?
How do you know it was an attempt an that. Clerkin came in to try and out muscle Doc off the ball. Fergal took a dislike and the two choked each other to the ground.
I was just wondering how anyone else saw it. Heard from someone after that was sitting at that far side with a better view and they reckoned there was something in it. All I saw was when Dick was on the ground you could see Doherty's left hand come round to his face, but sure you couldn't see much after that. Think there's a photo on sportsfile that you can see it a bit better.
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/355249/5000/
That picture isn't good - but thankfully gouging is a rugby offence. No charges here.
Using still pictures can be very misleading. I remember Ricey getting slaughtered for supposedly spitting when in fact he was just "slabbering".
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 10:11:02 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 24, 2009, 10:01:21 PM
Is it as bad as a knee to the balls?
As I say, I don't think it was a clear tackle as you say it is. McManus goes up to catch the ball, Mullen comes from behind and breaks it away, and leaves the arm around McManus's head. McManus wraps his arms around him and their legs get tangled and they go down. I can see how it can be seen as a rugby tackle, but McManus isn't a player who usually would be fit to do that and wouldn't try! Even if he did, you're seriously saying he deserved a knee to the balls for his efforts?! Alot of pulling and dragging goes on in alot of games, but as I said earlier you don't see a knee to the balls after every such incident.
You see this is my problem
Everyone is now rushing to call Mullan a sc**bag and throw the book at him when the guy who started it and committed the first offense walks and the ref hasn't the balls to blow the whistle.
So the sum total is .... we encourage guys to pull players down and don't penalise them - but when the tackled retalitates we throw the book at him?
Something wrong with that.
Knee to the balls aside....in that incident Mullan got booked and McManus didnt.
What did he get booked for? There seems to be a fairly common concensus McManus rugby tackled Mullan. Now if the ref saw a knee it should have been a red. So it cant have been for the knee, so what was it for?
He must have got the call wrong and should have booked McManus if thats the case?
Or maybe he did see the knee and thought a yellow was enough?
I dont know but either way it looks like the ref got it wrong.
A knee is a dirty act and should be punishised. But if the ref gave him a yellow for it then that will prob be the end of it.
I think the big difference in the discussions on here is that no one from Monaghan is trying to defend any dirty play - hands up where it's due. But there are one or two Derry fans on here who are so blinkered it's ridiculous. Yes, Clerkin was rough today and yes, Tommy did attempt a headbutt. None of this is pretty and if they are punished so be it. But this idea of JMohan's that McManus should be sanctioned if Mullan is... quite franky ridiculous.
That's a big result for Derry. They didn't play overly well but in those last 10 mins showed that Cassidy has added that wee bit of discipline and steel needed to win games like this.
Kielt's a great prospect and you can see why he starting at that age - some talent. I don't think Derry are going to be the prettiest side to watch under Cassidy but they're there to be taken seriously.
It says a lot about the age we're in when most of the talk is about a wee bit of messing. No blood was drawn, no one was unable to continue playing. It was your typical Ulster game between two of the top sides.
Joe Brolly was some craic in his post-match analysis!!! I "lol'd" a few times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrSsRUTWswk
Large chunks of the game up on Youtube for you all to argue about all you like. The supposed gougind incident is around the 3 min mark, much ado about nothing. Whats done is done and there is no point in trying to defend the undefensible in many cases. It wasnt pretty to look out and there was plenty of unpleasant incidents throughout. No doubt there will be further action taken on a few of them but so be it. If they have transgressed then they will have to face the consequences.
While it is unpalatable to some, if Derry hadnt given back as good as they got they wouldnt have won. I wont be a hyprocrite and say I want them to go out and play classy football. They did what it took to win. Monaghan would have beat them out the gate if it was the Derry team of the last few years.
Derry still have a long way to go before they are a match for Tyrone. A performance like that wouldnt be good enough for either them or Armagh but it was always going to be that type of game.
I dont think there'll be any more of that from Derry/Tyrone/Armagh...but you can be sure Fermanagh will be hard to watch.
I still maintain that if Monaghan had come to play football, Derry would have also played football.
Monaghan came to bully their way through under instruction from their manager....what else were Derry supposed to do? Roll over and take it? They did what they had to.
A knee, a kick, a punch, and a headbut all warrant suspensions....so from that point of view you should see Tommy Freeman, Mone, Clerkin, Ronaghan, Mullan, Doherty all suspended.
At most I would say it will be Mullan and Freeman.
Looking forward to a proper match between Derry and Tyrone/Armagh.
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 24, 2009, 10:44:04 PM
McManus pulled him down. Should have been a free to Derry, which is irrelevant. They both wrestled on the ground, Mullan was about to get up but before he did he drove his knee into the midrife of McManus. If seen by the officials it would have been a straight red card for striking.
It's obvious that mc manus was being held in a head lock and had little or no option in where he could or could not go. I hope the your man mullan gets what he deserves. Midrift!!?? You have got to be kidding me, it's little wonder you saw mc manus 'pull him down' if you think he was kneed anywhere other than in his grion area.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 24, 2009, 11:16:35 PM
I dont think there'll be any more of that from Derry/Tyrone/Armagh...but you can be sure Fermanagh will be hard to watch.
I still maintain that if Monaghan had come to play football, Derry would have also played football.
Monaghan came to bully their way through under instruction from their manager....what else were Derry supposed to do? Roll over and take it? They did what they had to.
A knee, a kick, a punch, and a headbut all warrant suspensions....so from that point of view you should see Tommy Freeman, Mone, Clerkin, Ronaghan, Mullan, Doherty all suspended.
At most I would say it will be Mullan and Freeman.
Looking forward to a proper match between Derry and Tyrone/Armagh.
What a load of sh**e. Someone has obviously been watching a bit too much of the hysterics on the Sunday Game.
Quote from: ONeill on May 24, 2009, 11:07:09 PM
That's a big result for Derry. They didn't play overly well but in those last 10 mins showed that Cassidy has added that wee bit of discipline and steel needed to win games like this.
Were you watching the same game as the rest of us?!
This was a thugfest, pur and simple by two teams who had no interest in playing football for their own and the spectators enjoyment. I think it would be good for all concerned if the two managers came out and apologised to everyone for the actions of their teams today for whom they were responsible. If they don't, then it is imperative that their county chairmen do so for the sake of all who play it, especially the young kids who had to watch that today.
Quote from: Winnie Peg on May 24, 2009, 11:27:46 PM
If they don't, then it is imperative that their county chairmen do so for the sake of all who play it, especially the young kids who had to watch that today.
Im surprised it took so long. Someone think of the children. :D
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 24, 2009, 11:25:12 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 24, 2009, 11:07:09 PM
That's a big result for Derry. They didn't play overly well but in those last 10 mins showed that Cassidy has added that wee bit of discipline and steel needed to win games like this.
Were you watching the same game as the rest of us?!
Maguire,
After Doherty got the line Monaghan fell apart. They continued to have little interest in trying to play football whilst Derry focused and picked off three good points. Hanratty and Freeman being a prime example of this when they got involved in a scuffle when they should have been making runs into space for the half back line who where coming out with the ball.
Quote from: soldier of destiny on May 24, 2009, 11:23:53 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 24, 2009, 11:16:35 PM
I dont think there'll be any more of that from Derry/Tyrone/Armagh...but you can be sure Fermanagh will be hard to watch.
I still maintain that if Monaghan had come to play football, Derry would have also played football.
Monaghan came to bully their way through under instruction from their manager....what else were Derry supposed to do? Roll over and take it? They did what they had to.
A knee, a kick, a punch, and a headbut all warrant suspensions....so from that point of view you should see Tommy Freeman, Mone, Clerkin, Ronaghan, Mullan, Doherty all suspended.
At most I would say it will be Mullan and Freeman.
Looking forward to a proper match between Derry and Tyrone/Armagh.
What a load of sh**e. Someone has obviously been watching a bit too much of the hysterics on the Sunday Game.
:D :D
I don't remember Derry people being so bitter after Monaghan lost last year!
i think the whole brian mullan thing is a bit ott to be honest. i think there were worse things happening on the pitch. oakleafgael i think your getting mixed up with the doc kick. he tried to trip clerkin about 10 seconds before he kicked him.
Serious question for the Monaghan folk ...
Do you think that this is the Banty's last roll of the dice?
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 24, 2009, 11:25:12 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 24, 2009, 11:07:09 PM
That's a big result for Derry. They didn't play overly well but in those last 10 mins showed that Cassidy has added that wee bit of discipline and steel needed to win games like this.
Were you watching the same game as the rest of us?!
If you disagree, I suggest you didn't see the game at all. Derry were well drilled in how to see out this game and played it to a tee in those last 10mins . Monaghan simply lost the plot and lacked leadership.
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 11:41:41 PM
I don't remember Derry people being so bitter after Monaghan lost last year!
You always forget the defeats after victory ;)
Monaghan and Derry could easily meet again in the not too distant future of Derry dont get past Tyrone/Armagh...that would be messy.
Looking at the teams already in the qualifiers, Monaghan should at least get past the first round anyway. They'll never won an all-ireland playing the way they do though and I think they thought this was their year in Ulster, so you never know either....the heads might well drop.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 24, 2009, 11:46:55 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 11:41:41 PM
I don't remember Derry people being so bitter after Monaghan lost last year!
You always forget the defeats after victory ;)
Monaghan and Derry could easily meet again in the not too distant future of Derry dont get past Tyrone/Armagh...that would be messy.
Looking at the teams already in the qualifiers, Monaghan should at least get past the first round anyway. They'll never won an all-ireland playing the way they do though and I think they thought this was their year in Ulster, so you never know either....the heads might well drop.
It would be shame if they did - honestly.
That said I'd hate for the two teams to meet again - it would be a shocking game.
Also - lost in the BS about Mullan and McManus
How far has Eoin Lennons performances fallen?
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 11:50:40 PM
Also - lost in the BS about Mullan and McManus
How far has Eoin Lennons performances fallen?
Frighteningly poor - but travelling to and from Liverpool isn't a good idea - not even training with the team regularly.
No wonder hardstation has a million posts, he loves talking shite
Doherty didnt try and gouge clerkins eyes, he was pushing his head into the ground. Clerkin has acted the bully boy for too long now and it has got him by because of his poor ability. Cant actually think of him adding anything positive to monaghan today!
Quote from: orangeman on May 24, 2009, 11:58:48 PM
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 11:50:40 PM
Also - lost in the BS about Mullan and McManus
How far has Eoin Lennons performances fallen?
Frighteningly poor - but travelling to and from Liverpool isn't a good idea - not even training with the team regularly.
Yes the trip to Liverpool has made all the difference, he hasn't been the same since.
On the bright side(if there is one after today), we play Latton in the championship Friday night, hopefully Lennon will be below-par for that too(but back to top form for the qualifiers)! ;)
It's a pity because last year or the year before he was nearly carrying the team - certainly around the middle of the pairc
Quote from: hardstation on May 25, 2009, 12:05:13 AM
Quote from: pebble-dasher on May 25, 2009, 12:01:14 AM
No wonder hardstation has a million posts, he loves talking shite
Doherty didnt try and gouge clerkins eyes, he was pushing his head into the ground. Clerkin has acted the bully boy for too long now and it has got him by because of his poor ability. Cant actually think of him adding anything positive to monaghan today!
I don't have a million posts. Great that you started your post with an inaccuracy and continued in the same way.
Well done.
Another useless contribution
in fairness hardstation you have saturated this thread and offered very little....
Is there another midfielder there among the Monaghan team that could step in?
Quote from: JMohan on May 25, 2009, 12:13:24 AM
Is there another midfielder there among the Monaghan team that could step in?
That's the problem, we've very little depth there. JP Mone would be a midfielder for us within the county but he's done well at full back the last few years for the county and would be a miss there. James Conlon had a great year at midfield last year for Carrick, when they won the league and got to the championship final, but to be fair to him he wasn't given a fair go in the league. Played a few games at full-back, corner-back and centre-back but didn't look good in any if them. But he wasn't given a chance in his normal position and the position we need more players in - strange to say the least. Anyway, he obviously got sick of it and left the panel a while back. Apart from that you've Benny McKenna, big lump of a lad but wouldn't trust him there. Finlay can play there but we need him on the forty.
Quote from: Overthebar! on May 25, 2009, 12:13:06 AM
in fairness hardstation you have saturated this thread and offered very little....
I think HS has every right to pull up JMohan as he still can't take off his oak leaf tinted glasses and admit that mullens action is the only one that deserves suspension, to give mc manus' foul (50/50 in my view) parity is just ridiculous
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 25, 2009, 12:23:58 AM
Quote from: Overthebar! on May 25, 2009, 12:13:06 AM
in fairness hardstation you have saturated this thread and offered very little....
I think HS has every right to pull up JMohan as he still can't take off his oak leaf tinted glasses and admit that mullens action is the only one that deserves suspension, to give mc manus' foul (50/50 in my view) parity is just ridiculous
Nobody suggested parity - just fairness
Quote from: Schkite on May 25, 2009, 12:20:07 AM
Quote from: JMohan on May 25, 2009, 12:13:24 AM
Is there another midfielder there among the Monaghan team that could step in?
That's the problem, we've very little depth there. JP Mone would be a midfielder for us within the county but he's done well at full back the last few years for the county and would be a miss there. James Conlon had a great year at midfield last year for Carrick, when they won the league and got to the championship final, but to be fair to him he wasn't given a fair go in the league. Played a few games at full-back, corner-back and centre-back but didn't look good in any if them. But he wasn't given a chance in his normal position and the position we need more players in - strange to say the least. Anyway, he obviously got sick of it and left the panel a while back. Apart from that you've Benny McKenna, big lump of a lad but wouldn't trust him there. Finlay can play there but we need him on the forty.
Get Conlon in there for a run or chance at least
Quote from: hardstation on May 25, 2009, 12:19:21 AM
Does Barry McGoldrick always act the ballix like he did today?
Was that the Derry No. 6? I felt that he was probably the dirtiest player on the pitch and was astonished that his behaviour wasn't flagged up more on TV tonight. Also, Freeman's headbut should be investigated.
I thought his brother Sean Leo was worse. While dirty streak in those two mcgoldricks
Barry McGoldrick looked like a real mouthpiece alright, always in the thick of it and had something to say. Though Sean Leo did well though.
Quote from: JMohan on May 24, 2009, 10:42:45 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 24, 2009, 10:40:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2009, 10:37:12 PM
Mullan had him in the headlock before McManus grabbed him! FFS JMohan, wise up!
No he didnt. Mullan broke the ball, advanced a bit and McManus bear hugged him to the ground
Thank you
I was sitting right behind the incident.They both wrestled each other to the ground,wrestled a bit on the ground,then Mullan pulled his 2 knees into McManus lower area.Thats from a neutral.Mullan deserves a ban.
Very disappointing to lose that game. Derry deserved it in the end for their last 15 minutes but for 40 minutes they were very poor and were there to be beaten. Monaghan just kicked away their chances, wide or straight to the goalkeeper, altogether a criminal waste of possession and attacking positions.
I thought Woods with a bit more composure could have side footed into the net, hard to tell, maybe he was knackered.
Vinny tried his best, a wholehearted player, even he looked small out there :).
Ominous when Lennon and Woods were replaced, two of the senior members, replaced at a time when they were the players to step up the pace and grab the game for Monaghan.
It's sad that this thread gets swamped by immature, unsporting, blind and sometimes illiterate drivel.
Quote from: hardstation on May 25, 2009, 12:17:06 AM
Quote from: Overthebar! on May 25, 2009, 12:13:06 AM
in fairness hardstation you have saturated this thread and offered very little....
I have merely outlined inaccuracies in certain Derry mens' opinions. All of which (these opinions) have been proved to be bollix.
Is that wrong? Should I let yis say what you want?
no, no you haven't. you have been trying to stir shite constantly making your usual useless comments....
Quote from: Winnie Peg on May 25, 2009, 12:29:58 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 25, 2009, 12:19:21 AM
Does Barry McGoldrick always act the ballix like he did today?
Was that the Derry No. 6? I felt that he was probably the dirtiest player on the pitch and was astonished that his behaviour wasn't flagged up more on TV tonight. Also, Freeman's headbut should be investigated.
watching the game live and watching on tv give very different impressions, on TV McGoldrick did look to be involved in many of the melees, but I didn't see much malice in his actions in them (not like Dick and Rory).
Mullan will presumably get a suspension, be very surprised if Doc gets anything extra. The worst (as in most dangerous) tackle of the day was Tommy Freeman on Barry McGuigan - it was terrible, zero attempt to play the ball, and he really could have caused serious injury, he got his yellow, but perhaps red would have been more fitting?
The game was an awful advert for football, Monaghan's limitations were shown up (i'm not having a go at Monaghan, as they have limited resources and they've given Kerry tough games through playing the only way they can), whilst I don't agree with the experimental rules, surely a sin bin is now a must?
Two brilliant points from Kielt there at the end, fair play to him, that might convince a number of us over on the derry thread.
Good to get to our 5th ulster semi in succession, hopefully we won't flop now for the 5th time in a row :o At least we won't be favs against Tyrone, so maybe the boys won't be over confident this time (though Cassidy would hardly allow that regardless).
hardstation f**k off. save your commentary for the antrim game. im sure they'll have a bundle to add to the AI series the year
Quote from: hardstation on May 25, 2009, 12:26:21 AM
A knee in the balls = Suspension. That's fair.
Does the knee have to be in the balls HS? What about the knee Clerkin threw at Doc just before they first tangled? Because it didn't connect with his balls and doc didnt roll around the ground does that mean that it doesn't deserve to be highlighted? Doc didnt' just get up and grab him for no reason. Freeman's headbutt is very similar, just because McGuckin chose not to hit the deck like he'd be been taken out by a sniper, does that mean the headbutt shouldn't be highlighted?
If you cite one instance in a game then you have to be consistent and cite all. That includes clerkin, freeman, doc, mone and anybody else who fell foul of the rules. If this was the case then i would imagine there would be double figures up for suspension.
But we all know this won't happen. The easy option will be taken and Mullan will be cited because of the pubilc outcry and how it was highlighted in the media. I am not condoning the action for one second but have to ask that just because he connected better than the rest, does that make it a worse crime? I think not.
On a different note, does anybody know what the F.H.W. stands for written on mone's arm?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8066225.stm
I see Dermot McArdles rabbit punches on Eoin Bradley in the second half are not getting a mention here
What else did you expect - sure this was a typical Ulster game.
What a crying session this thread has turned into? Mullan should get banned but lets be honest about the thing, he didn't try to end his career or seriously injure him. By some of the reaction on here you'd nearly think he pulled a knife out of his sock and stabbed the fcuk out of him! He'll get a suspension, get over it!
Also I can't really understand where all the praise for James Kielt is coming from. Granted, he kicked two awesome points but he was in acres of space for both of them and offered nothing else through the whole game. Thought Mark Lynch was quiet enough when he cam on too, I actually forgot he had come on until he hit a free!!
Don't think Doc should get anything extra as we niggly things like that go on in every game and once again there was no serious injury caused or even attempted for that matter.
Shit game. Good result, all that matters really.
Quote from: screenmachine on May 25, 2009, 09:51:52 AM
What a crying session this thread has turned into? Mullan should get banned but lets be honest about the thing, he didn't try to end his career or seriously injure him. By some of the reaction on here you'd nearly think he pulled a knife out of his sock and stabbed the fcuk out of him! He'll get a suspension, get over it!
Also I can't really understand where all the praise for James Kielt is coming from. Granted, he kicked two awesome points but he was in acres of space for both of them and offered nothing else through the whole game. Thought Mark Lynch was quiet enough when he cam on too, I actually forgot he had come on until he hit a free!!
Don't think Doc should get anything extra as we niggly things like that go on in every game and once again there was no serious injury caused or even attempted for that matter.
Shit game. Good result, all that matters really.
Kilelts points weren't some easy tap over score 25 yards out, in front of goal in some club league game. he scored two absolutely massive points from distance to DRAW the game and the other to put us ONE up in one of the most intense and intimidating enviroments he will ever face. Have you any understanding of how he was involved in in lifting Derrys game at that stage to go for the win.
Quote from: screenmachine on May 25, 2009, 09:51:52 AM
What a crying session this thread has turned into? Mullan should get banned but lets be honest about the thing, he didn't try to end his career or seriously injure him. By some of the reaction on here you'd nearly think he pulled a knife out of his sock and stabbed the fcuk out of him! He'll get a suspension, get over it!
Also I can't really understand where all the praise for James Kielt is coming from. Granted, he kicked two awesome points but he was in acres of space for both of them and offered nothing else through the whole game. Thought Mark Lynch was quiet enough when he cam on too, I actually forgot he had come on until he hit a free!!
Don't think Doc should get anything extra as we niggly things like that go on in every game and once again there was no serious injury caused or even attempted for that matter.
Shit game. Good result, all that matters really.
A knee in the balls isn't trying to seriously injure somebody? I've heard it alll now. As bad an act as I've seen on a Gaa pitch. The intent and the force of the kick are there for all to see.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 25, 2009, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on May 25, 2009, 09:51:52 AM
What a crying session this thread has turned into? Mullan should get banned but lets be honest about the thing, he didn't try to end his career or seriously injure him. By some of the reaction on here you'd nearly think he pulled a knife out of his sock and stabbed the fcuk out of him! He'll get a suspension, get over it!
Also I can't really understand where all the praise for James Kielt is coming from. Granted, he kicked two awesome points but he was in acres of space for both of them and offered nothing else through the whole game. Thought Mark Lynch was quiet enough when he cam on too, I actually forgot he had come on until he hit a free!!
Don't think Doc should get anything extra as we niggly things like that go on in every game and once again there was no serious injury caused or even attempted for that matter.
Shit game. Good result, all that matters really.
A knee in the balls isn't trying to seriously injure somebody? I've heard it alll now. As bad an act as I've seen on a Gaa pitch. The intent and the force of the kick are there for all to see.
I'd agree, shocking to see on a GAA field. Plenty of intent in that. I've a feeling after th coverage the game has got that they'll throw the book at him. No sympathy.
Didn't get to the game but heard that the behvaiour of the ground was dreadful as well - Monaghan "supporters" booing the introduction of Hanratty, Derry supporter getting involved with Darren Hughes in second half and alot of verbal abuse in the ground. Always has been this at games but heard it got very nasty and personal yesterday. Maybe someone can comment who was there.
Also heard that the area behind the stand is very narrow and toilets all down one end and at half time a serious crush was developing with alot of children involved.
Indiana Dublin were involved in a brutal league game against Monaghan last season, which your stats man came on and head butted one of the Monaghan players. How do you think a team should take on Monaghan as a matter of interest ( I am not defending a Derry player kneeing someone in the privates, but I am defending our aggressive manner in meeting Monaghans methods )
Quote from: JohnDenver on May 25, 2009, 08:38:15 AM
On a different note, does anybody know what the F.H.W. stands for written on mone's arm?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8066225.stm
Freeman
Headbutted
McGuckin. The M is upside-down.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:15:58 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on May 25, 2009, 08:38:15 AM
On a different note, does anybody know what the F.H.W. stands for written on mone's arm?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8066225.stm
Freeman Headbutted McGuckin. The M is upside-down.
I think the wife towl him to get the groceries in that big asda in Strabane on the way home.
Fairy Liquid
Hankies
Weetabix
He was never going to mine all that, so he wrote it down. Smart.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:15:24 AM
Indiana Dublin were involved in a brutal league game against Monaghan last season, which your stats man came on and head butted one of the Monaghan players. How do you think a team should take on Monaghan as a matter of interest ( I am not defending a Derry player kneeing someone in the privates, but I am defending our aggressive manner in meeting Monaghans methods )
Whats that got to do with it. I wouldn't use his actions as an excuse for some of Derry's antics yesterday. Both teams were as bad as each other. I'd be absolutely appalled if Dublin played in such a manner. It was a scandalous advert for the GAA. We're trying to promote the games here, we don't expect teams to be sheepishly compliant in being nice to each other. But there has to be a line somewhere. I'm fed uplistening to Banty and other managers saying any variations on the current rules take the physicality out of the game. I think Monaghan would be better off with another manager.
That was posionous yesterday. We've all had parochial battles on football pitches but I'd go a long way to get as posionous an atmosphere as that yesterday. Reminded me of the Derry v Tyrone qualifier about 5 year ago.
Has no one had the balls to question the ref , his linesmen and umpires role in yesterdays game. Jimmy White was the ref in Omagh who was in charge of the game against Kerry and Tyrone in the national league under the experimental rules. He never flashed two many yellow cards in that game even thou we had many incidents in it also. His support team are a joke. Do his umpires just go out along with him for the day to get a few view of the game.
Indiana my point is that is how Monaghan play, how would you play gainst it, walk away fom every confrontation.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:00:24 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on May 25, 2009, 09:51:52 AM
What a crying session this thread has turned into? Mullan should get banned but lets be honest about the thing, he didn't try to end his career or seriously injure him. By some of the reaction on here you'd nearly think he pulled a knife out of his sock and stabbed the fcuk out of him! He'll get a suspension, get over it!
Also I can't really understand where all the praise for James Kielt is coming from. Granted, he kicked two awesome points but he was in acres of space for both of them and offered nothing else through the whole game. Thought Mark Lynch was quiet enough when he cam on too, I actually forgot he had come on until he hit a free!!
Don't think Doc should get anything extra as we niggly things like that go on in every game and once again there was no serious injury caused or even attempted for that matter.
Shit game. Good result, all that matters really.
Kilelts points weren't some easy tap over score 25 yards out, in front of goal in some club league game. he scored two absolutely massive points from distance to DRAW the game and the other to put us ONE up in one of the most intense and intimidating enviroments he will ever face. Have you any understanding of how he was involved in in lifting Derrys game at that stage to go for the win.
The fact of the matter is Max that Kielt could have came on tens mins into the second half and offered the same amount as he did yesterday. I have stated that both his points were awesome and he also was in a lot of space for both of them, I think this is an accurate enough account? What did Kielt offer in the first half at all and in the second half outside of his two scores?
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:15:24 AM
Indiana Dublin were involved in a brutal league game against Monaghan last season, which your stats man came on and head butted one of the Monaghan players. How do you think a team should take on Monaghan as a matter of interest ( I am not defending a Derry player kneeing someone in the privates, but I am defending our aggressive manner in meeting Monaghans methods )
Interestingly I agree with Max, although obviously I would use the word Derry's instead of our.
For years, this Monaghan team has used whatever tactics necessary to win matches. They have flouted, bent and played well outside the spirit of the rules of the game. They initimate, throw sly digs, and constantly verbally abuse opponents. I would single out Dick Clerkin in this regard as an example of everything that is wrong with how Monaghan play the game. They have done this for years without referees or the hierarchy in the GAA doing anything serious about it. That the Director-General of the GAA is a Monaghan man and Seamus McEnaney has a brother who is a high profile inter-county referee is possibly irrelevant, but it can (and in my opinion) does lead to an Orwellian-like perception that some counties are more equal than others.
Now, how to you play Monaghan? Do you meet their aggression and skull-duggery with your own aggression and then when the sorting out is done, do you play the football? This is what Derry did yesterday. Now on more than one occasion, Derrymen went beyond what is acceptable and both Mullan and Doherty fully deserve any ban that is coming their way. But when Derry had created the circumstances that they could play football in, i.e. when they had shown Monaghan that they weren't going to be bullied or initimated, they closed the game out in some style.
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
I think Monaghan have reached the end of their cycle.
Like I said before I think Banty has done a great job - but the system and style of play has been successful to the level where they are now in the top 8 in the country possibly. To go further they need to adopt a new style or improve it - not just keep doing the same thing.
Banty made a great move a few years ago - cleared out his backroom staff after reaching the L2 Final and winning it and brought in new men. New style etc. I think he might need to do the same again - OR move on himself.
It's not disrespectful - I just think new ideas are needed.
You also have to ask about the discipline and the style of play Banty or whoever sent them out to play. (I'll come to Derry in a minute). To be fair to Monaghan they've been treading on this line for a while and some of their players have had a reputation growing for a bit of being nasty and involved in off-the-ball stuff. Some of the verbals in games I've heard reported were sickening. So it's no wonder there is such a backlash against them now. Before this most people thought they were everyones favourite second team, but they are losing that tag now and now are looked upon as a dirty team.
As for Derry, I think they showed some steel for the first time in a while in Championship when it mattered. It was always there - look at Kerry in the NFL final last year. The key was for them to do it in championship and to do it 2 games in a row - this is where the next game will be key.
The dirty incidents are all part of a game when it sinks to that level. In other words in bad games people do lots of bad things so you can't take things completely out of context. But you can't defend kicking someone in the balls.
The biggest issue here is NOT adding more rules or adding a sin bin - this is NOT the answer. Just enforce the ones we have. If a referee has balls himself he'll deal with issues he sees and if the umpires or linesmen see it then he has to act. The biggest issue is enforcement and having the balls to enforce the rules. All it would have taken is to send 3 or 4 men off today (rightly for the fouls they committed) to set the tone for the season and get things up and running. Sadly we had referees now who have cowed out for things and people now looking for a sin bin, which allows you to keep men on the field, just replace them. There's no real advantage in that now that panels are so big.
People will say oh - well you will still get straight reds for dangerous tackles. BS. There will be more yellows instead of Reds. Just empower and support the good referees.
How is it that Pat McEneany can referee good games and clowns like yesterday lose the run of things? Explain that one. Can't we just enforce the ones we have?
Monaghan need to go back to the drawing board. They are too cyncial and crude, don't go out to play football and looked to lose fitness in the last 10 minutes whereas Derry were flying with a man less. Questions to be asked there.
Anyway ... the next up for both teams will be fun as both have a lot to do.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 24, 2009, 09:16:36 PM
For what its worth my opinion is that Monaghan were the instigators of the roughness in the game. They were also the more negative. But I suppose in a way you can't blame them. Football is about winning and Monaghan knew that the two Bradleys will do serious damage if played one on one against the Monaghan backs. They crowded t he back and tried to slow the ball in. When confronted with that Derry had to fight fire with fire. Shite game but I think Derry will have more to offer in the next rounds and I'd expect them to give Ulster a right lash
that sums it up exactly ! !!
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:15:58 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on May 25, 2009, 08:38:15 AM
On a different note, does anybody know what the F.H.W. stands for written on mone's arm?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8066225.stm
Freeman Headbutted McGuckin. The M is upside-down.
FHW stands for F*cking Hard Work
(It was his motto for the day)
The reason, Derry were playing against a mighy breeze and Monaghan lorded the break ball in the last 15 minutes of the first half.
SS2 fair play to you. And as always elegant with the font
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:15:58 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on May 25, 2009, 08:38:15 AM
On a different note, does anybody know what the F.H.W. stands for written on mone's arm?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8066225.stm
Freeman Headbutted McGuckin. The M is upside-down.
:D :D :D
Pat Spillane will come out with the usual typical Ulster championship football - and maybe it was - and this is why Ulster remains probably the only true provincial champonship - whoever wins it deserves to win it.
That's why Armagh have won 7 titles in the last 10 or so and that's why they should be favourites next week against Tyrone ! ;)
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
That is the most crazy thing ever posted on this board, talk about over reacting. Monaghan aren't pretty and I don;t like watching them myself but to suggest they should be banned cause of their style of play is childish and beyond reason. Let the refs and other teams deal with it and when they get beat, it may dawn on them that they need to change the style of play.
By your post you'd swear that Monaghan had murdered someone. Remember yesterday that Derry sub, only in the game and who hadn't been on long enough to be mentally/physically abused by the Monaghan regime to such an extent that he had to take matters into his own hands, carried out the single worst act of the game and if its topped in the championship this year, it'll be some achievement.
It's a bit pathetic that people are trying to point the finger at the ref on this one. In fairness to the man, he had an absolutely impossible task. When 2 team go out with the playing of football as a secondary priority, then the ref is always going to have a tough time.
It's a typical reaction - rather than accepting that the blame lies with the players from both counties, fans from those counties try to deflect the focus onto the ref, or to the new rules, or to the old rules, or to last years game or to something else. Typical but disappointing.
No the ref has to take the blame along with the teams. What did he do to deal with the agrression. Je waited until 12 minutes from full time to deliver a message that then made one team play football. His linesmen and umpires were a disgrace, because they were able to see more than him and did nothing about it. They are also guilty.
I'm not sure anyone is blaming the ref fully on this - but he does need to take on alot of the blame for letting the game run out of control.
For a game like that you need an iron fist. Everyone knew it was going to be a huge game.
Players will try anything to get an advantage if they think they can.
If he had reacted from the start and booked a few early on he would have gotten a better response rather than letting things get out of hand.
From a neutral point of view;
I def thought mullan was the one that wrestled mcmanus to the ground, and then drove the knee in him as he got up, which the refferee prob didnt see.This is why mullan got a yellow, not a red.
When the incident is looked at on video evidence he should get a hefty suspension.will be interesting to see what they will give him as they have now set the bar very high with the ricey suspension and IMO this was much worse.
Feargal Doc may have been unfortunate to get the second yellow card for the incident he did, but he should have known better while already on ayellow and prob deserved to go for several other incidents in the game.
Overall I thought the refferee was decent, in what was a very hard game to handle.the football wasnt great and it was ugly at times, but lets not all get carried away in the mass hysteria of how football is doomed casue of games like this,it was a poor ,niggly game.lets move on.
was also disapointed with how jarlath burns used it on BBC as an excuse to talk up his own agenda for the rule changes again,saying this is why managers shouldnt have a say, the motion was defeated, becasue most people didnnt want the change,end of.
I am an Armagh man and have not been pleased with everything Armagh have done over the years before you say it. Yesterday's game was a disgrace for the GAA and the book should be thrown at both teams. As regards the Derry N. 6, McGoldrick....as the ball was being thrown in to start the game he reached round the Monaghan No. 11, Finlay and punched him hard in the face in an unprovoked attack. This looked to me as something that was preplanned and doesn't look well for Cassidy
Jimmy White had an opportunity in the first half to send a few men off - most notably Fergal Doc - but he didn't do it and probably he contributed to the whole indiscipline thing - he should have put a marker down earlier than he did.
It wasn't impossible to ref had he applied the rules strictly.
Quote from: screenmachine on May 25, 2009, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:00:24 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on May 25, 2009, 09:51:52 AM
What a crying session this thread has turned into? Mullan should get banned but lets be honest about the thing, he didn't try to end his career or seriously injure him. By some of the reaction on here you'd nearly think he pulled a knife out of his sock and stabbed the fcuk out of him! He'll get a suspension, get over it!
Also I can't really understand where all the praise for James Kielt is coming from. Granted, he kicked two awesome points but he was in acres of space for both of them and offered nothing else through the whole game. Thought Mark Lynch was quiet enough when he cam on too, I actually forgot he had come on until he hit a free!!
Don't think Doc should get anything extra as we niggly things like that go on in every game and once again there was no serious injury caused or even attempted for that matter.
Shit game. Good result, all that matters really.
Kilelts points weren't some easy tap over score 25 yards out, in front of goal in some club league game. he scored two absolutely massive points from distance to DRAW the game and the other to put us ONE up in one of the most intense and intimidating enviroments he will ever face. Have you any understanding of how he was involved in in lifting Derrys game at that stage to go for the win.
The fact of the matter is Max that Kielt could have came on tens mins into the second half and offered the same amount as he did yesterday. I have stated that both his points were awesome and he also was in a lot of space for both of them, I think this is an accurate enough account? What did Kielt offer in the first half at all and in the second half outside of his two scores?
SM it seems to me like you have some sort of vendeta against James Kielt, somehow out of all the positives that came out of yesterdays game you seem to continue your arguement about how Kielt contributed very little. He scored 2 quality and very crucial points and lets not forget it was his 1st senior county championship appearance. In my book thats not a bad days work.
But hey maybe you know more about the game than the rest of us
QuoteThe biggest issue here is NOT adding more rules or adding a sin bin - this is NOT the answer. Just enforce the ones we have. If a referee has balls himself he'll deal with issues he sees and if the umpires or linesmen see it then he has to act. The biggest issue is enforcement and having the balls to enforce the rules. All it would have taken is to send 3 or 4 men off today (rightly for the fouls they committed) to set the tone for the season and get things up and running. Sadly we had referees now who have cowed out for things and people now looking for a sin bin, which allows you to keep men on the field, just replace them. There's no real advantage in that now that panels are so big.
I disagree entirely there JM and I disagree with those trying to blame the ref also, what yer being is wise after the event. The ref was right IMO to be lenient in the early stages as many games have a 'getting to know you' period and often settle down after that but this one didn't because the players didn't want to. To say we don't need new sanctions is patently wrong, yesterdays game wasn't a once off, in fact it is fairly common and if refs, as JM suggests, send 3 or 4 players off early all we'll hear is bullshit about consistency or how some jumped up ref who wants to be center off attention sends off lads who have been training for this day since God created man.
If I hear some fool talk about manliness or physicality in football I'll slap him, in Aussie rules and rugby there is genuine physicality and the sly cowardly rubbish that is all too prevalent in our games is embarrassing. Kicking guys in the ankles, verbally abusing him and then going down like a sack of spuds if he gives you a clip is so far from manliness that it isn't funny. The new rules showed that refs are more willing to sin bin or send off (yellow card) players and players are afraid of these sanctions, new rules are needed and needed badly.
Quote from: Winnie Peg on May 25, 2009, 11:01:57 AM
I am an Armagh man and have not been pleased with everything Armagh have done over the years before you say it. Yesterday's game was a disgrace for the GAA and the book should be thrown at both teams. As regards the Derry N. 6, McGoldrick....as the ball was being thrown in to start the game he reached round the Monaghan No. 11, Finlay and punched him hard in the face in an unprovoked attack. This looked to me as something that was preplanned and doesn't look well for Cassidy
Would you ever give it a rest about Barry McGoldrick, he is definitely not a dirty player and was far from the most offending player with regards to fouls on the pitch yesterday.
New rules my arse, get me a ref who will implement the existing rules.
The ref exerted zero control over proceedings from an early stage, as Max has pointed out, he has umpires and linesmen, the umpires see a helluva lot of shite and ignore it - why?? If did their job and informed the ref about the off the ball nonsense that was going on before the ball had been thrown in, maybe things would have been different.
I disagree with JMohan about a sin bin, a sin bin yesterday with every yellow card offence being followed with the player being sidelined for 10 minutes would put a stop to much of the nonsense that typically goes on in these games - it's a question of enforcement as much as anything else, referee's are too reluctant to send players off for incidents they don't see themselves (note Brian Mullan being cautioned after the linesman brought it to his attention), they're also reluctant to send players off early in the game - a ten minute sin binning would presumably make them less reluctant to do so, and teams would probably not be sent out to play in the manner we saw yesterday, if every cautionable offence would result in a reduction in their number for 1/7 of the game.
Another point about the referee, how could he possibly come up with only 2 minutes added on time at the end of each half? Definitely time for time keeping to be taken out of the ref's hands (although it probably spared the neutral having to watch more of it).
As for crowd behaviour - i saw nothing untoward - fans were having a bit of banter, but all handshakes etc after the game.
Quote from: Zulu on May 25, 2009, 11:08:31 AM
QuoteThe biggest issue here is NOT adding more rules or adding a sin bin - this is NOT the answer. Just enforce the ones we have. If a referee has balls himself he'll deal with issues he sees and if the umpires or linesmen see it then he has to act. The biggest issue is enforcement and having the balls to enforce the rules. All it would have taken is to send 3 or 4 men off today (rightly for the fouls they committed) to set the tone for the season and get things up and running. Sadly we had referees now who have cowed out for things and people now looking for a sin bin, which allows you to keep men on the field, just replace them. There's no real advantage in that now that panels are so big.
I disagree entirely there JM and I disagree with those trying to blame the ref also, what yer being is wise after the event. The ref was right IMO to be lenient in the early stages as many games have a 'getting to know you' period and often settle down after that but this one didn't because the players didn't want to. To say we don't need new sanctions is patently wrong, yesterdays game wasn't a once off, in fact it is fairly common and if refs, as JM suggests, send 3 or 4 players off early all we'll hear is bullshit about consistency or how some jumped up ref who wants to be center off attention sends off lads who have been training for this day since God created man.
If I hear some fool talk about manliness or physicality in football I'll slap him, in Aussie rules and rugby there is genuine physicality and the sly cowardly rubbish that is all too prevalent in our games is embarrassing. Kicking guys in the ankles, verbally abusing him and then going down like a sack of spuds if he gives you a clip is so far from manliness that it isn't funny. The new rules showed that refs are more willing to sin bin or send off (yellow card) players and players are afraid of these sanctions, new rules are needed and needed badly.
Agreed Zulu (See we can agree now and again).
The refs can't or won't impose the current rules and always take the easy option. New rules are needed that will help them and also clean up managers and players. Banty was one of the biggest mouthpiece's against the new rules but if they had been imposed, his championship game plan would have went out the window. He didn't fair too bad with the new rules and with the small stature of many of his players, he should have been using them to his advantage.
Sin bin should definatley be explored as in rugby and until teams start having to play with 12/13 players then we won't get anywhere.
Quote from: bingobus on May 25, 2009, 11:15:47 AM
Quote from: Zulu on May 25, 2009, 11:08:31 AM
QuoteThe biggest issue here is NOT adding more rules or adding a sin bin - this is NOT the answer. Just enforce the ones we have. If a referee has balls himself he'll deal with issues he sees and if the umpires or linesmen see it then he has to act. The biggest issue is enforcement and having the balls to enforce the rules. All it would have taken is to send 3 or 4 men off today (rightly for the fouls they committed) to set the tone for the season and get things up and running. Sadly we had referees now who have cowed out for things and people now looking for a sin bin, which allows you to keep men on the field, just replace them. There's no real advantage in that now that panels are so big.
I disagree entirely there JM and I disagree with those trying to blame the ref also, what yer being is wise after the event. The ref was right IMO to be lenient in the early stages as many games have a 'getting to know you' period and often settle down after that but this one didn't because the players didn't want to. To say we don't need new sanctions is patently wrong, yesterdays game wasn't a once off, in fact it is fairly common and if refs, as JM suggests, send 3 or 4 players off early all we'll hear is bullshit about consistency or how some jumped up ref who wants to be center off attention sends off lads who have been training for this day since God created man.
If I hear some fool talk about manliness or physicality in football I'll slap him, in Aussie rules and rugby there is genuine physicality and the sly cowardly rubbish that is all too prevalent in our games is embarrassing. Kicking guys in the ankles, verbally abusing him and then going down like a sack of spuds if he gives you a clip is so far from manliness that it isn't funny. The new rules showed that refs are more willing to sin bin or send off (yellow card) players and players are afraid of these sanctions, new rules are needed and needed badly.
Agreed Zulu (See we can agree now and again).
The refs can't or won't impose the current rules and always take the easy option. New rules are needed that will help them and also clean up managers and players. Banty was one of the biggest mouthpiece's against the new rules but if they had been imposed, his championship game plan would have went out the window. He didn't fair too bad with the new rules and with the small stature of many of his players, he should have been using them to his advantage.
Sin bin should definatley be explored as in rugby and until teams start having to play with 12/13 players then we won't get anywhere.
This is exactly the problem - But what makes you think new rules will suddenly give them balls?
Enforce the ones we have first before adding new ones.
Quote from: Zulu on May 25, 2009, 11:08:31 AM
QuoteThe biggest issue here is NOT adding more rules or adding a sin bin - this is NOT the answer. Just enforce the ones we have. If a referee has balls himself he'll deal with issues he sees and if the umpires or linesmen see it then he has to act. The biggest issue is enforcement and having the balls to enforce the rules. All it would have taken is to send 3 or 4 men off today (rightly for the fouls they committed) to set the tone for the season and get things up and running. Sadly we had referees now who have cowed out for things and people now looking for a sin bin, which allows you to keep men on the field, just replace them. There's no real advantage in that now that panels are so big.
I disagree entirely there JM and I disagree with those trying to blame the ref also, what yer being is wise after the event. The ref was right IMO to be lenient in the early stages as many games have a 'getting to know you' period and often settle down after that but this one didn't because the players didn't want to. To say we don't need new sanctions is patently wrong, yesterdays game wasn't a once off, in fact it is fairly common and if refs, as JM suggests, send 3 or 4 players off early all we'll hear is bullshit about consistency or how some jumped up ref who wants to be center off attention sends off lads who have been training for this day since God created man.
If I hear some fool talk about manliness or physicality in football I'll slap him, in Aussie rules and rugby there is genuine physicality and the sly cowardly rubbish that is all too prevalent in our games is embarrassing. Kicking guys in the ankles, verbally abusing him and then going down like a sack of spuds if he gives you a clip is so far from manliness that it isn't funny. The new rules showed that refs are more willing to sin bin or send off (yellow card) players and players are afraid of these sanctions, new rules are needed and needed badly.
I can't see how new rules will help.
If someone does something wrong we punish them, yellow card. What are we doing now? Putting in another lighter penalty and confusing things and making them more complex.
We simply need the rules applied properly. Why is there only one Pat McEnenany?
And as for physicality well most of what went on yesterday had nothing to do with physicality. Pulling and dragging has nothing to do with physicality.
There were some good physical tousles that were fair and the rules allowed for it, then there was the other stuff.
Quote from: JMohan on May 25, 2009, 11:18:45 AM
Quote from: bingobus on May 25, 2009, 11:15:47 AM
Quote from: Zulu on May 25, 2009, 11:08:31 AM
QuoteThe biggest issue here is NOT adding more rules or adding a sin bin - this is NOT the answer. Just enforce the ones we have. If a referee has balls himself he'll deal with issues he sees and if the umpires or linesmen see it then he has to act. The biggest issue is enforcement and having the balls to enforce the rules. All it would have taken is to send 3 or 4 men off today (rightly for the fouls they committed) to set the tone for the season and get things up and running. Sadly we had referees now who have cowed out for things and people now looking for a sin bin, which allows you to keep men on the field, just replace them. There's no real advantage in that now that panels are so big.
I disagree entirely there JM and I disagree with those trying to blame the ref also, what yer being is wise after the event. The ref was right IMO to be lenient in the early stages as many games have a 'getting to know you' period and often settle down after that but this one didn't because the players didn't want to. To say we don't need new sanctions is patently wrong, yesterdays game wasn't a once off, in fact it is fairly common and if refs, as JM suggests, send 3 or 4 players off early all we'll hear is bullshit about consistency or how some jumped up ref who wants to be center off attention sends off lads who have been training for this day since God created man.
If I hear some fool talk about manliness or physicality in football I'll slap him, in Aussie rules and rugby there is genuine physicality and the sly cowardly rubbish that is all too prevalent in our games is embarrassing. Kicking guys in the ankles, verbally abusing him and then going down like a sack of spuds if he gives you a clip is so far from manliness that it isn't funny. The new rules showed that refs are more willing to sin bin or send off (yellow card) players and players are afraid of these sanctions, new rules are needed and needed badly.
Agreed Zulu (See we can agree now and again).
The refs can't or won't impose the current rules and always take the easy option. New rules are needed that will help them and also clean up managers and players. Banty was one of the biggest mouthpiece's against the new rules but if they had been imposed, his championship game plan would have went out the window. He didn't fair too bad with the new rules and with the small stature of many of his players, he should have been using them to his advantage.
Sin bin should definatley be explored as in rugby and until teams start having to play with 12/13 players then we won't get anywhere.
This is exactly the problem - But what makes you think new rules will suddenly give them balls?
Enforce the ones we have first before adding new ones.
[/b]
Exactly.
For a start, all this absolute nonsense about people saying this was a poor game! What the hell were yous all expecting? People who were expecting a cracking game yesterday in the mould of the 1994 Derry v Down game that was being talked about, know little or nothing about championship football, and ulster football in particular.
This was a nasty match, no question, but if you were offended by the first grapple on the ground then switch it over to the Celtic game or whatever and stop complaining.
Monaghan have taken the game down to a low, low level, and it was up to Derry to grind them to the point were this tactic just didn't work for them. You could see this in the last 10mins when Derry's superior ability came to the fore even with 14 men.
This would have happened yesterday no matter who Monaghan were playing - only having been beaten in the last couple of seasons, Derry knew exactly what to expect, and were ready to give Monaghan a does of their own medicine. And Monaghan bottled it when it mattered.
Job done for Derry, and i'm absolutely delighted with the result.
A few other points:
Quote from: bingobus on May 25, 2009, 10:13:40 AM
Didn't get to the game but heard that the behvaiour of the ground was dreadful as well - Monaghan "supporters" booing the introduction of Hanratty, Derry supporter getting involved with Darren Hughes in second half and alot of verbal abuse in the ground. Always has been this at games but heard it got very nasty and personal yesterday. Maybe someone can comment who was there.
I think you'll find it was Darren Hughes that got involved with the Derry supporters, not the other way around. Shows the mindset of some of these 'players'.
The numbers thing that monaghan had on their backs: the biggest horseshit idea i have ever seen. This kind of ineffective crap is right up there with naming bogey teams, and staying in the dressing room for an extra five minutes at half time.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 25, 2009, 10:25:23 AM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:15:24 AM
Indiana Dublin were involved in a brutal league game against Monaghan last season
Both teams were as bad as each other. I'd be absolutely appalled if Dublin played in such a manner. It was a scandalous advert for the GAA.
Is this the match you're on about Max?:
(http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00176/Mark_176090t.jpg)
Yeah, Dublin would never resort to thuggery! ::)
Anyway, great to see Derry stand up and be counted, and good to finally get one over Monaghan!
This craic of grabbing lads by the windpipe needs to be addressed too.
(http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00324/rayronaghan_indo_324637t.jpg)
in the words of 'the hives' ...I hate to say I told you so
heres my quotes from the first couple of pages on this thread
"....and Derry have not had experienced the championship 'borderline' play that Monaghan and a few others do so well.
In the past Derry have lost the head shouting at the ref or resorting to retaliation and forgetting to play football and losing the game as a result."
"Monaghan are a lot more street wise and 'cuter' at the 'black arts' than Derry"
"As we all know, Banty has monaghan pumped up for playing for the county based on that 'nobody likes us' ' we are always written off' and that we are a small county that no one rates us craic - so the cute hoors that can play 'on the edge' of the rules have a field day.
Apart from one or two exceptions down the years (mcKeever springs to mind), Derry never had men to do that kind of craic, rather the straightforward 'mess with me , I'll deck you' attitude shown by McGilligan etc.
Its an annual worry for me to see how Derry will respond to eny subversive tactics. Will they retaliate and get sent off, will they ignore and play football, will they fight fire with fire.
the latter is usually never an option. I hope Derry can keep their heads on the gameplan and playing football ."
yesterday monaghan didnt disappoint me in how they approached the game.
Doherty deserved to get sent off for being daft and not holding on to his discipline - yes I know it was in the face of huge provocation but even still !
Mullan was fouled (rugby tackled) and no free was forthcoming for Derry and then Mullan took matters into his own hands by kneeing the chap on the deck. lying on your side its hard to measure a knee to a specific area, so if it was in the groin region, it was unlucky for the monaghan man, but mulan deserved a red for kneeing irrespective of where he made contact with.
However a huge gripe I have , being a former 'forward' myself , is the amount of frees and dirty plays a defender is allowed perportrate on a forward without the justified end result of a free.
Thats why forwards (inc me at times) would have taken matters into their own hands out of frustration. A knee isnt an acceptable manner, though for some reason I feel that a punch in the face is ! (in some small way I have a notion that hanratty kind of got what he deserved though, and we know mullan will get what he is due too).
Monaghan try to drag teams down into a scrap and usually win thereafter. Derry just about stopped themselves being completely sucked in and therefore held on to win.
Just glad the game is over, and a Derry win. It was never going to be 'pretty'.
Best ofluck tomonaghan for the qualifiers. I wouldnt want to face them again.
QuoteFor a start, all this absolute nonsense about people saying this was a poor game! What the hell were yous all expecting? People who were expecting a cracking game yesterday in the mould of the 1994 Derry v Down game that was being talked about, know little or nothing about championship football, and ulster football in particular.This was a nasty match, no question, but if you were offended by the first grapple on the ground then switch it over to the Celtic game or whatever and stop complaining.
This is exactly the type of nonsense that shows how badly we need new sanctions, if you think that it is ok that football matches can turn into yesterdays type of game let alone expect it, then you are no fan of football. The fact that people are saying this game should have been expected shows just how badly we need to tackle the ills of the game.
JM the rules as they are don't work it is easy for you to say they should just implement the current rules but in the cauldrons that most championship games are it isn't that easy. A football game is played on a big pitch with 30 players, the action moves up and down the field at a ferocious pace with more collisions than any other sport which makes iot a difficult game to ref. And on top of this refs are human, they feel pressure and must be conscious of making a bad mistake i.e. sending a guy off in the wrong. The sin bin (or some other sanction) will give the ref a way to seriously punish teams without the pressure of having to send a guy off for the whole game. Anyway the point is we have had two games with a serious amount of frees and only one guy got sent off, we need a more serious sanction for persistant fouling or moderately serious/cynical fouls, if some lads still can't see this then they're blind.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:32:50 AM
Has no one had the balls to question the ref , his linesmen and umpires role in yesterdays game. Jimmy White was the ref in Omagh who was in charge of the game against Kerry and Tyrone in the national league under the experimental rules. He never flashed two many yellow cards in that game even thou we had many incidents in it also. His support team are a joke. Do his umpires just go out along with him for the day to get a few view of the game.
Indiana my point is that is how Monaghan play, how would you play gainst it, walk away fom every confrontation.
I think a lot of the way monaghan play is driven by the managers. Its as if Monaghan have adapted an attiude of nice guys finish last. Well Monaghan are still no nearer to winning an Ulster title by playing over the edge. Monaghan have plenty of good players and they don't need to resort to yesterdays level.
Ulster managers seem to think a different set of rules and conduct apply up there and this gives them an unwritten carte blanche to do whatever it takes and whatever they bloody like on the field of play. Its childish, outdated and no excuse anymore. And people have every right to slate yesterdays game. Because it wasn't Gaelic Football and that sanctimonius, peer of the realm attitude some of the posters have here doesn't wash anymore. "How dare you criticise the Ulster football championship"- i'm sick of that sort of shite. You had 2 top 8 sides yesterday- should have been a cracking game.
I agree with most of that - but that is not solved with more rules.
Introduce a video rep with mike link up if the ref can't see all - but any change needs to be tailored to the problem at hand. DOn't get me wrong. I want to see better football than we had yesterday, but I don't want a huge mess made because we aren't using the rules we have, the rules aren't the problem. Implementing them is.
Look at this first -
- Video Ref
- Video live ref in stand
- Citing options
- Additional linesmen - two per side, each does a half each so when no ball, watching off the ball stuff
Look at these things that don't interfere with the game directly before sin bins.
Quote from: MR MISTER on May 25, 2009, 11:05:55 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on May 25, 2009, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:00:24 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on May 25, 2009, 09:51:52 AM
What a crying session this thread has turned into? Mullan should get banned but lets be honest about the thing, he didn't try to end his career or seriously injure him. By some of the reaction on here you'd nearly think he pulled a knife out of his sock and stabbed the fcuk out of him! He'll get a suspension, get over it!
Also I can't really understand where all the praise for James Kielt is coming from. Granted, he kicked two awesome points but he was in acres of space for both of them and offered nothing else through the whole game. Thought Mark Lynch was quiet enough when he cam on too, I actually forgot he had come on until he hit a free!!
Don't think Doc should get anything extra as we niggly things like that go on in every game and once again there was no serious injury caused or even attempted for that matter.
Shit game. Good result, all that matters really.
Kilelts points weren't some easy tap over score 25 yards out, in front of goal in some club league game. he scored two absolutely massive points from distance to DRAW the game and the other to put us ONE up in one of the most intense and intimidating enviroments he will ever face. Have you any understanding of how he was involved in in lifting Derrys game at that stage to go for the win.
The fact of the matter is Max that Kielt could have came on tens mins into the second half and offered the same amount as he did yesterday. I have stated that both his points were awesome and he also was in a lot of space for both of them, I think this is an accurate enough account? What did Kielt offer in the first half at all and in the second half outside of his two scores?
SM it seems to me like you have some sort of vendeta against James Kielt, somehow out of all the positives that came out of yesterdays game you seem to continue your arguement about how Kielt contributed very little. He scored 2 quality and very crucial points and lets not forget it was his 1st senior county championship appearance. In my book thats not a bad days work.
But hey maybe you know more about the game than the rest of us
I've no vendetta (more of an opinion tbh) at all Mr Mr. I've no doubt that James Kielt is a quality footballer and has a massive future in the county setup. It's when papers and pundits, etc. start claiming that he won the game for Derry and had a great game is what I have an issue with. I just feel that he didnt offer anything else outside of the two points and could perhaps have been used as an impact sub in the second half when the game was starting to open up a bit and he would get the space he needs to score.
My first Ulster final was 1987 in which Monaghan beat Tyrone and I've never liked them since.
They've had some great players over the years but I think they know themselves that maybe like Fermanagh they have to play a certain "System" to prevent other teams from playing to their strengths which in turn usually makes for a very dour negative battle. This often gets the other team frustrated and sometimes leads to players getting sent off that don't like to be bullied.
Quite a few teams, including Derry in Omagh on 2006 & Dublin in the league in the battle of Omagh played a rather negative brand of defensive football that gets so many men behind the ball and systematically fouls players earlier to stop momentmum building.
We know Tyrone are no angels themselves but in my book when one team wants to play football and the other team bends the rules as far as the ref will let them then the game will look ugly.
People are slow to blame refs & say it is a hard job, which it is. But of course teams are much more tactically aware nowadays and so it makes sense to have 2 men around the other teams marksman. Makes sense to play a sweeper to stop him getting the ball. But if Refs would be strong enuf from the start & lay down the law then players would not test what they can get away with.
I can't see why Refs dont stop a match when he gets a feel for the rough tactics & call over the captains or even managers and warn them there & then that there will be multiple sendings off unless there is a change of tactics.
Fergal Doherty is a vital player for Derry & would say he was targeted for some special attention & he was silly to react to it. But had the ref been stronger & had better communication with the linesmen etc then Doherty wouldn't have had to take the law into his own hands.
Refs have a job to enforce the rules and not make exceptions to just keep the match flowing. Refs like McEnaney are respected cos he makes the big calls and doesn't shirk his duties. Yes he gets plenty wrong and probably will next Sunday but at least players know not to risk it with him.
Do IC refs have a meeting each week to review their performance & get pointers on how to improve. There is too much of what Martin McHugh said where
"Ach I wouldn't be too sore on him, sure he's a neighbour of ours down the road and a nicer man you've never met"
On the Kielt note. Yes he was talked up a lot earlier this season but he's still very young and new to this level so I'd say he'll do OK when he get a year to settle in.
2 great points on yer debut isn't bad against such a defensive side as Monaghan.
QuoteLook at this first -
- Video Ref
- Video live ref in stand
- Citing options
- Additional linesmen - two per side, each does a half each so when no ball, watching off the ball stuff
Look at these things that don't interfere with the game directly before sin bins.
But that doesn't tackle the problem and will only serve to slow up the game. Citing and video refs are all well and good but they are only for off the ball stuff and we have that anyway as the CCC will look at some of the off the ball stuff this week. What we need is a sanction that makes players more cautious in the tackle and if they go overboard they get severly punished but not overly so. All your suggestions won't address persistant or cynical fouling. As I see it there are a number of reasons that we get foul fests like the last two weeks;
1. No real sanction for persistant or cynical fouls
2. Poor tackling technique, which won't change because of point 1.
3. Poor refs
4. Lack of an advantage rule or a willingness to implement it.
As far as I can see, if we address point 1 than we will improve all areas to some degree.
By the way, this thread should be a clear warning to those who disagreed with the new rules, we had two of the best teams in the country playing yesterday and there is hardly any talk about football today. Football is a magnificent game and should be capable of producing cracking games more often than not, that fact that it doesn't tells me all I need to know.
What's the story with this, is this the Darren Hughes incident?
Monaghan player punched by fan - claim
25 May 2009
The Ulster Council is set to investigate allegations that a Monaghan player was struck by a fan during yesterday's ill-tempered Ulster SFC clash at Celtic Park.
The provincial body will review a video of the game in an attempt to identify the spectator who allegedly threw a punch at the player. The incident took place on the Gasworks side of the redeveloped ground midway through the second half.
Derry won a bruising and foul-ridden encounter by 1-10 to 0-10, having lost to Monaghan in each of the past two years.
Monaghan's All-Star forward Tommy Freeman was at the centre of a similar incident early last year when he was head-butted by a Dublin backroom team member after a spiteful National League game in Parnell Park.
Quote from: Zulu on May 25, 2009, 12:18:18 PM
QuoteLook at this first -
- Video Ref
- Video live ref in stand
- Citing options
- Additional linesmen - two per side, each does a half each so when no ball, watching off the ball stuff
Look at these things that don't interfere with the game directly before sin bins.
But that doesn't tackle the problem and will only serve to slow up the game. Citing and video refs are all well and good but they are only for off the ball stuff and we have that anyway as the CCC will look at some of the off the ball stuff this week. What we need is a sanction that makes players more cautious in the tackle and if they go overboard they get severly punished but not overly so. All your suggestions won't address persistant or cynical fouling. As I see it there are a number of reasons that we get foul fests like the last two weeks;
1. No real sanction for persistant or cynical fouls
2. Poor tackling technique, which won't change because of point 1.
3. Poor refs
4. Lack of an advantage rule or a willingness to implement it.
As far as I can see, if we address point 1 than we will improve all areas to some degree.
By the way, this thread should be a clear warning to those who disagreed with the new rules, we had two of the best teams in the country playing yesterday and there is hardly any talk about football today. Football is a magnificent game and should be capable of producing cracking games more often than not, that fact that it doesn't tells me all I need to know.
I agree 1 is an issue - but to me that enforcement of rules.
A persisitant foul is something like pulling a jersey? yes?
So if it's seen and not punished ONLY then can it be called persistant.
If you were to believe the Derry posters on here you would think that Derry are angels and the Monaghan team make them play dirty yesterday
Derry are more than capable of playing dirty and cynical football which they have proven on more than one occasion
Both teams were guilty yesterday and for the Derry ones to come on and place all the blame on the monaghan players bar one or two fouls is a bit rich
Quote from: Schkite on May 25, 2009, 12:21:20 PM
What's the story with this, is this the Darren Hughes incident?
Monaghan player punched by fan - claim
25 May 2009
The Ulster Council is set to investigate allegations that a Monaghan player was struck by a fan during yesterday's ill-tempered Ulster SFC clash at Celtic Park.
The provincial body will review a video of the game in an attempt to identify the spectator who allegedly threw a punch at the player. The incident took place on the Gasworks side of the redeveloped ground midway through the second half.
Derry won a bruising and foul-ridden encounter by 1-10 to 0-10, having lost to Monaghan in each of the past two years.
Monaghan's All-Star forward Tommy Freeman was at the centre of a similar incident early last year when he was head-butted by a Dublin backroom team member after a spiteful National League game in Parnell Park.
My viewing of the incident was that the ball went out of play and hopped over the fence. Hughes came chasing the ball and deliberately pushed the spectator. Looked like he deserved to be punched if that was the case
QuoteSo if it's seen and not punished ONLY then can it be called persistant.
Not sure what you mean there JM but the fact is you can make 3 or 4 fouls and face no sanction whatsoever, you keep talking about implementing the current rules but we've had them for 125 years and they have never been implemented properly. So there is clearly a problem and in fairness to refs there are so many contacts in football that it would be nigh on impossible to get anything like consistency. The new rules cleared things up for both refs and players, you knew if you tackled neck high for example you'd probably get sent off. This is exactly what we need, though I wouldn't put neck high tackles in the serious category myself, but we do need to put a sanction in for cynical fouling and persitant fouling. What about sin binning the next player who fouls once a team reaches, for example, 10 fouls? Now I'm not sure I'd support that one myself but anyone who feels that the solution is to implement the current rules is either not watching football for very long or needs to think outside the box a bit. What we've done hasn't worked, so it is time to experiment with something different, it has to be worth a go and if we did it at U21 and minor first and/or in the league for two years then we could make an informed opinion without having to listen to senior IC managers talking bullshit.
By the way we should seperate hurl;ing from football on this so they don't fail because hurling folk think there is nothing wrong with hurling.
Quote from: unforgiven on May 25, 2009, 12:49:59 PM
My viewing of the incident was that the ball went out of play and hopped over the fence. Hughes came chasing the ball and deliberately pushed the spectator. Looked like he deserved to be punched if that was the case
Yeah just like McManus deserved to get a knee in the balls for the "rugby tackle" ::)
I didn't see the incident, but if a Derry supporter was acting the bollix and holding onto the ball when we needed it back quickly, Hughes had every right to go in and force it from him. As I say I didn't see it but if he pushed him he had a reason to, he's not a dirty player and you'll notice he didn't partake in any of the bullshit on the field that's we're discussing today, I wouldn't think he'd jump into the crowd and push someone for no reason. But punching a player is wrong, I doubt Hughes deserved it if this story is true.
Derry are certainly no angels but then again angels wouldn't have won that match yesterday so I'm pleased enough.
We all know the way Monaghan like to play, it's not pretty nor pleasing on the eye yet it can be effective which has been seen in their rise to the top division in the league.
However Derry are without doubt a better footballing side and yesterdays performance showed that they have more strings to their bow than previous years in that we can meet fire with fire and mix it up when required. A win is a win and it essentially that is the end all and be all for me in the first round of an Ulster Championship game against anyone.
Quote from: Zulu on May 25, 2009, 12:56:54 PM
QuoteSo if it's seen and not punished ONLY then can it be called persistant.
Not sure what you mean there JM but the fact is you can make 3 or 4 fouls and face no sanction whatsoever, you keep talking about implementing the current rules but we've had them for 125 years and they have never been implemented properly. So there is clearly a problem and in fairness to refs there are so many contacts in football that it would be nigh on impossible to get anything like consistency. The new rules cleared things up for both refs and players, you knew if you tackled neck high for example you'd probably get sent off. This is exactly what we need, though I wouldn't put neck high tackles in the serious category myself, but we do need to put a sanction in for cynical fouling and persitant fouling. What about sin binning the next player who fouls once a team reaches, for example, 10 fouls? Now I'm not sure I'd support that one myself but anyone who feels that the solution is to implement the current rules is either not watching football for very long or needs to think outside the box a bit. What we've done hasn't worked, so it is time to experiment with something different, it has to be worth a go and if we did it at U21 and minor first and/or in the league for two years then we could make an informed opinion without having to listen to senior IC managers talking bullshit.
By the way we should seperate hurl;ing from football on this so they don't fail because hurling folk think there is nothing wrong with hurling.
What I mean is - if a guy pulls a jersey - tick him
If a guys pulls it twice YC him
If it's done 3 times - Red
This isn't done.
Ref's back down from the ultimate sanction for pulling a jersey most often if the guy has been booked already.
People will say you can't red card for pulling a jersey - but after 3 occasions of persistant fouling then you have to!
That's what you call enforcing the rules we have IMO.
Quote from: tyronefan on May 25, 2009, 12:49:03 PM
If you were to believe the Derry posters on here you would think that Derry are angels and the Monaghan team make them play dirty yesterday
Derry are more than capable of playing dirty and cynical football which they have proven on more than one occasion
Both teams were guilty yesterday and for the Derry ones to come on and place all the blame on the monaghan players bar one or two fouls is a bit rich
Balls
We definitely do not have a track record of displays like yesterday. yesterday and tyrone 06' are the two real cynical battles we've been involved in in the past few years. Derry rarely play cynical.
The simple fact of the matter is that the game would never have been like that had we been playing another team. A combo of recent history, Monaghans approach to the game and Derrys approach to the game set off a dogged affair.
Its also particularly rich to hear Indiana gallop in on his high horse. Dublin have been up to much worse shite with Monaghan and Tyrone in the past few years.
Bear in mind those games had full scale brawls and a Dublin stats man sinking the head into Freeman, amongst other ugly scenes. Kinda de-values your moral indignation on here.
Thank god we won a good old scrap. I'm very happy after yesterday.
I see Peter canavan is the only pundit to call this game before it was played. In his coloumn he said it was going to be physical and nasty. How come the ref didn't know it?
I'm very glad we beat Monaghan. Their cynical tactics (often mistaken for passion) didn't win through yesterday. Some of our boys were involved in disgraceful antics too but no one can argue that Derry are normally that type of team. Their actions were reactive. For supposedly hard men Monaghan did an awful lot of lying down yesterday and which is what got Doc sent off. There will be more to the Mullan incident and I would say what he did was extremely dangerous and stupid. No need for it at all. I got great satisfaction from beating an arrogant Monaghan team. Rory Woods would have been red carded about 5 times yest going by the experimental rules. He was the 3rd man in on alot of occasions and its dicks like this that can start a proper row. Used to have respect for Monaghan but I have none now. As I said before you cannot mistake their dirty, cynical approach to a match for passion.
Looking forward to the Tyrone/Armagh game now.
Quote from: Schkite on May 25, 2009, 01:02:02 PM
Quote from: unforgiven on May 25, 2009, 12:49:59 PM
My viewing of the incident was that the ball went out of play and hopped over the fence. Hughes came chasing the ball and deliberately pushed the spectator. Looked like he deserved to be punched if that was the case
Yeah just like McManus deserved to get a knee in the balls for the "rugby tackle" ::)
I didn't see the incident, but if a Derry supporter was acting the bollix and holding onto the ball when we needed it back quickly, Hughes had every right to go in and force it from him. As I say I didn't see it but if he pushed him he had a reason to, he's not a dirty player and you'll notice he didn't partake in any of the bullshit on the field that's we're discussing today, I wouldn't think he'd jump into the crowd and push someone for no reason. But punching a player is wrong, I doubt Hughes deserved it if this story is true.
Firstly, I never mentioned the McManus/Mullan incident
Also, I only saw the Hughes incident once. I don't think the spectator was holding onto the ball, Just thought Hughes was overly aggressive and pushed the spectator. Didn't see spectator punching him (that's not to say it didn't happen). You're version is full of 'ifs and buts'. Probably would be helpful if you saw the incident before commenting on it.
Enjoyed this game immensely compared to the bland fare of the previous week, 2 determined teams kick start the ulkster championship with a competitve edgy and downright nasty tussle... lovely. I think derry wans will be happy that they can out cynic even the most cynical. As for the incidents well theres going to be more of these video casualties with Mullen / Doc etc certainties to miss the nest round of the Ulster championship. Im waiting for the condemnation similar to the tommy mc guigan stuff from some of our steady derry posters, but those who cried for video evidence to be used must now surely regret doing so.. this could be the bane of the championship.
Quote from: JMohan on May 25, 2009, 01:18:24 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 25, 2009, 12:56:54 PM
QuoteSo if it's seen and not punished ONLY then can it be called persistant.
Not sure what you mean there JM but the fact is you can make 3 or 4 fouls and face no sanction whatsoever, you keep talking about implementing the current rules but we've had them for 125 years and they have never been implemented properly. So there is clearly a problem and in fairness to refs there are so many contacts in football that it would be nigh on impossible to get anything like consistency. The new rules cleared things up for both refs and players, you knew if you tackled neck high for example you'd probably get sent off. This is exactly what we need, though I wouldn't put neck high tackles in the serious category myself, but we do need to put a sanction in for cynical fouling and persitant fouling. What about sin binning the next player who fouls once a team reaches, for example, 10 fouls? Now I'm not sure I'd support that one myself but anyone who feels that the solution is to implement the current rules is either not watching football for very long or needs to think outside the box a bit. What we've done hasn't worked, so it is time to experiment with something different, it has to be worth a go and if we did it at U21 and minor first and/or in the league for two years then we could make an informed opinion without having to listen to senior IC managers talking bullshit.
By the way we should seperate hurl;ing from football on this so they don't fail because hurling folk think there is nothing wrong with hurling.
What I mean is - if a guy pulls a jersey - tick him
If a guys pulls it twice YC him
If it's done 3 times - Red
This isn't done.
Ref's back down from the ultimate sanction for pulling a jersey most often if the guy has been booked already.
People will say you can't red card for pulling a jersey - but after 3 occasions of persistant fouling then you have to!
That's what you call enforcing the rules we have IMO.
I agree and have no problem with that but I can understand why refs cop out of this type of red card and you can be sure that the world and his mother would come down on his shoulders if he sent 3 or 4 guys off for this type of thing. We'd have lads here complaining about consistency because other players also committed 3 fouls and managers complaining about how there wasn't a bad foul all day yet three lads got sent off. A happy medium is the way to go IMO, where we disagree JM is that I don't think the current rules will ever be implemented so we need something different. Managers will tell you one day that the rules are there just implement them but if they do they'll then complain about that, the ref has the hardest most unrewarding job in the GAA and we need to make it easier for him, not simply demand that he displays a strength of character and quality of performance that is all to sadly lacking for everyone else in the GAA.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:15:24 AM
Indiana Dublin were involved in a brutal league game against Monaghan last season, which your stats man came on and head butted one of the Monaghan players. How do you think a team should take on Monaghan as a matter of interest ( I am not defending a Derry player kneeing someone in the privates, but I am defending our aggressive manner in meeting Monaghans methods )
Better teams than Derry have beaten Monaghan without having to resort to blatant dives, dragging players down when breaking out of defense and other random acts of expression on a field of play. Kildare were particularly impressive I thought with Tyrone and Kerry being two other obvious examples.
Derry set out to play that way right from the start.
If anyone thinks that Derry just made the aggressive approach up as they went along, need their football brain examined.
Derry don't appear to know the meaning of control when it comes to upping the extra physical side of the game.
If I was a Derry man i'd be more concerned at the 45 minutes of the game that Derry were outplayed and should have been put away by a Monaghan team.
Quote from: Main Street on May 25, 2009, 01:47:57 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:15:24 AM
Indiana Dublin were involved in a brutal league game against Monaghan last season, which your stats man came on and head butted one of the Monaghan players. How do you think a team should take on Monaghan as a matter of interest ( I am not defending a Derry player kneeing someone in the privates, but I am defending our aggressive manner in meeting Monaghans methods )
Better teams than Derry have beaten Monaghan without having to resort to blatant dives, dragging players down when breaking out of defense and other random acts of expression on a field of play. Kildare were particularly impressive I thought with Tyrone and Kerry being two other obvious examples.
Derry set out to play that way right from the start.
If anyone thinks that Derry just made the aggressive approach up as they went along, need their football brain examined.
Derry don't appear to know the meaning of control when it comes to upping the extra physical side of the game.
If I was a Derry man i'd be more concerned at the 45 minutes of the game that Derry were outplayed and should have been put away by a Monaghan team.
Your not a derry man and you got beaten. No had no answer in the final 10 when we opened up with 14 players.
I'm actually quite pleased in that we didn't play well and still managed to win even with one man deficit in the last 15 minutes.
Add to the fact that our midfield had a very off day and our main man for breaking ball Murphy didn't leather it and it shows how much we can improve.
As I said, alot of positives to take into the next game and other areas that definitely need addressed.
A win was the main thing, performance very secondary at this stage in the championship.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 01:50:21 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 25, 2009, 01:47:57 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:15:24 AM
Indiana Dublin were involved in a brutal league game against Monaghan last season, which your stats man came on and head butted one of the Monaghan players. How do you think a team should take on Monaghan as a matter of interest ( I am not defending a Derry player kneeing someone in the privates, but I am defending our aggressive manner in meeting Monaghans methods )
Better teams than Derry have beaten Monaghan without having to resort to blatant dives, dragging players down when breaking out of defense and other random acts of expression on a field of play. Kildare were particularly impressive I thought with Tyrone and Kerry being two other obvious examples.
Derry set out to play that way right from the start.
If anyone thinks that Derry just made the aggressive approach up as they went along, need their football brain examined.
Derry don't appear to know the meaning of control when it comes to upping the extra physical side of the game.
If I was a Derry man i'd be more concerned at the 45 minutes of the game that Derry were outplayed and should have been put away by a Monaghan team.
Your not a derry man and you got beaten. No had no answer in the final 10 when we opened up with 14 players.
Are there any rational football fans in Derry?
or is all playground taunts?
Quote from: DennistheMenace on May 25, 2009, 01:52:19 PM
I'm actually quite pleased in that we didn't play well and still managed to win even with one man deficit in the last 15 minutes.
Add to the fact that our midfield had a very off day and our main man for breaking ball Murphy didn't leather it and it shows how much we can improve.
As I said, alot of positives to take into the next game and other areas that definitely need addressed.
A win was the main thing, performance very secondary at this stage in the championship.
I think Derry will play much better now they've got over that hurdle yesterday.
That was a dogfight and they learned that lesson. Derry can play good football and it showed.
I was most impressed at how they managed with all the injuries.
Quote from: Main Street on May 25, 2009, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 01:50:21 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 25, 2009, 01:47:57 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 25, 2009, 10:15:24 AM
Indiana Dublin were involved in a brutal league game against Monaghan last season, which your stats man came on and head butted one of the Monaghan players. How do you think a team should take on Monaghan as a matter of interest ( I am not defending a Derry player kneeing someone in the privates, but I am defending our aggressive manner in meeting Monaghans methods )
Better teams than Derry have beaten Monaghan without having to resort to blatant dives, dragging players down when breaking out of defense and other random acts of expression on a field of play. Kildare were particularly impressive I thought with Tyrone and Kerry being two other obvious examples.
Derry set out to play that way right from the start.
If anyone thinks that Derry just made the aggressive approach up as they went along, need their football brain examined.
Derry don't appear to know the meaning of control when it comes to upping the extra physical side of the game.
If I was a Derry man i'd be more concerned at the 45 minutes of the game that Derry were outplayed and should have been put away by a Monaghan team.
Your not a derry man and you got beaten. No had no answer in the final 10 when we opened up with 14 players.
Are there any rational football fans in Derry?
or is all playground taunts?
and what do call that in bold...its not a taunt?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
That nicely sums it up boojangles.
Brolly was way out of order yesterday...praising Doherty cause he knows him and he's a fine gael, nice fella and does work in the community!!! WTF, his actions can't be dismissed cause of that, this fella was red carded last year as well if I recall. Was he nice then as well? But Dick is nasty according to Brolly and obviously doesn;t do enough community work and isn;t a real gael.
Brolly and Tohill last night where trying to take the heat out of Derrys antics and shift the blame to Monaghan, It took two to tango and Monaghans disciplinery record on all fronts would be good. There hasn't been too many club games abandoned (bar one) over the last few years in Monaghan. It seems a regular enough event in Derry.
Quote from: bingobus on May 25, 2009, 02:14:09 PM
There hasn't been too many club games abandoned (bar one) over the last few years in Monaghan. It seems a regular enough event in Derry.
I dont recall any
Quote from: bingobus on May 25, 2009, 10:13:40 AM
Also heard that the area behind the stand is very narrow and toilets all down one end and at half time a serious crush was developing with alot of children involved.
Yep, new stand is nice, but the exit areas are very narrow and there was some crushing trying to get in and out at times. Also, stewards did absolutely nothing to help the situation - just looked on.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
That is the most stupid comment i've read on here in a while. And there's been serious competition.
Quote from: the green man on May 25, 2009, 02:16:07 PM
Quote from: bingobus on May 25, 2009, 02:14:09 PM
There hasn't been too many club games abandoned (bar one) over the last few years in Monaghan. It seems a regular enough event in Derry.
I dont recall any
What about the match between Slaughtneil and Ballinderry last year? That's one off the top of my head.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/1009/derry.html
Quote from: bingobus on May 25, 2009, 02:14:09 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
That nicely sums it up boojangles.
Brolly was way out of order yesterday...praising Doherty cause he knows him and he's a fine gael, nice fella and does work in the community!!! WTF, his actions can't be dismissed cause of that, this fella was red carded last year as well if I recall. Was he nice then as well? But Dick is nasty according to Brolly and obviously doesn;t do enough community work and isn;t a real gael.
Brolly and Tohill last night where trying to take the heat out of Derrys antics and shift the blame to Monaghan, It took two to tango and Monaghans disciplinery record on all fronts would be good. There hasn't been too many club games abandoned (bar one) over the last few years in Monaghan. It seems a regular enough event in Derry.
Irrelevant, bitter and nonsensical. Good stuff :D
No doubt its so regular you'll provide a long list for us :D
Quote from: Schkite on May 25, 2009, 02:24:27 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 25, 2009, 02:16:07 PM
Quote from: bingobus on May 25, 2009, 02:14:09 PM
There hasn't been too many club games abandoned (bar one) over the last few years in Monaghan. It seems a regular enough event in Derry.
I dont recall any
What about the match between Slaughtneil and Ballinderry last year? That's one off the top of my head.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/1009/derry.html
That game wasn't abandoned. I don't seem to remember any being abandoned either recently. Can you think of any more of the top of your head there while your at it?
Quote from: Schkite on May 25, 2009, 02:24:27 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 25, 2009, 02:16:07 PM
Quote from: bingobus on May 25, 2009, 02:14:09 PM
There hasn't been too many club games abandoned (bar one) over the last few years in Monaghan. It seems a regular enough event in Derry.
I dont recall any
What about the match between Slaughtneil and Ballinderry last year? That's one off the top of my head.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/1009/derry.html
not abandoned lad
you boys are really scraping the barrel now :D
Quote from: Schkite on May 25, 2009, 01:02:02 PM
Quote from: unforgiven on May 25, 2009, 12:49:59 PM
My viewing of the incident was that the ball went out of play and hopped over the fence. Hughes came chasing the ball and deliberately pushed the spectator. Looked like he deserved to be punched if that was the case
Yeah just like McManus deserved to get a knee in the balls for the "rugby tackle" ::)
I didn't see the incident, but if a Derry supporter was acting the bollix and holding onto the ball when we needed it back quickly, Hughes had every right to go in and force it from him. As I say I didn't see it but if he pushed him he had a reason to, he's not a dirty player and you'll notice he didn't partake in any of the bullshit on the field that's we're discussing today, I wouldn't think he'd jump into the crowd and push someone for no reason. But punching a player is wrong, I doubt Hughes deserved it if this story is true.
No he doesn't. Under any circumstances. No matter what the fan may have done. End of story. If players are led to believe that spectators are fair game then we will be in even bigger trouble than we are today.
how many more biters is saffronsam gonna get before you realise its a windup?
schkite we are all waiting on you coming back to us with a game that was abandoned recently? sure its a regular enough occurrence
Quote from: Stalin on May 25, 2009, 02:34:29 PM
how many more biters is saffronsam gonna get before you realise its a windup?
schkite we are all waiting on you coming back to us with a game that was abandoned recently? sure its a regular enough occurrence
I just think it's a sad indictment of the state of Monaghan football that they've had to abandon a club championship game in the last few years - is this what banty's reign has brought to Monaghan football - where will it all end??
Jesus...right first of all I didn't say it was a regular occurrence.
And I was only talking about that game as one that had alot of suspensions out of it, I wasn't on about it being abandoned. I misread bingobus' post, so shoot me.
Quote from: Bogball XV on May 25, 2009, 02:41:01 PM
Quote from: Stalin on May 25, 2009, 02:34:29 PM
how many more biters is saffronsam gonna get before you realise its a windup?
schkite we are all waiting on you coming back to us with a game that was abandoned recently? sure its a regular enough occurrence
I just think it's a sad indictment of the state of Monaghan football that they've had to abandon a club championship game in the last few years - is this what banty's reign has brought to Monaghan football - where will it all end??
Just to clarify, it wasn't a championship game, twas a league game. Not that it makes any difference at all but when we're picking holes in posts here I thought I'd join in.
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
Big Joe summed it up for me last night when he said ... "There's a manliness in the Ulster Championship. There was no manliness there today."
And as an Ulster man, I can definitely say that it was alien to me.
this thread should not have made over 50 pages.
i will now make my conclusions and reccomendations and there will be no more talk of it from here on in
it was an ugly game of football on both teams part. both as bad as each other, those who did wrong will be punished in due course
the better team one on the day. case closed
now it is time to focus on the next match for both teams.
Quote from: cameltohill on May 25, 2009, 02:47:57 PM
this thread should not have made over 50 pages.
i will now make my conclusions and reccomendations and there will be no more talk of it from here on in
it was an ugly game of football on both teams part. both as bad as each other, those who did wrong will be punished in due course
the better team one on the day. case closed
now it is time to focus on the next match for both teams.
That's that then.
Quote from: RMDrive on May 25, 2009, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
Big Joe summed it up for me last night when he said ... "There's a manliness in the Ulster Championship. There was no manliness there today."
And as an Ulster man, I can definitely say that it was alien to me.
I'd have to agree with him
Quote from: RMDrive on May 25, 2009, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
Big Joe summed it up for me last night when he said ... "There's a manliness in the Ulster Championship. There was no manliness there today."
And as an Ulster man, I can definitely say that it was alien to me.
I wonder would he care to explain why he behaved like an alien in 1986 in Cross in an Ulster club c'ship V bellaghy.
GAA set to view Celtic Park video
Kevin McGuckin and Thomas Freeman have a wrestling match at Celtic Park
GAA disciplinary bosses look likely to use video evidence to view a number of incidents from Sunday's Ulster SFC clash between Derry and Monaghan.
Derry's Fergal Doherty was sent off and there are several other incidents which are expected to be viewed by the Central Competitions Control Committee.
Oak Leaf sub Brian Mullan appeared to knee Monaghan's Conor McManus in the groin area during a second-half tussle.
Monaghan's Thomas Freeman also appeared to clash with Derry's Kevin McGuckin.
There have also been media reports that a Monaghan player was struck by a supporter midway through the second half of the bad-tempered Celtic Park encounter.
Doherty received his marching orders after shouldering Monaghan's Gary McQuaid in the chest in an effort to get the ball, following the awarding of a free to Derry.
The Derry captain was also caught on camera, aiming a kick at Dick Clerkin and the respective midfielders were in each other's faces for the entire game.
Croke Park refused to comment on the incidents on Monday with GAA president Christy Cooney saying that it would be inappropriate to say anything which "could interfere with due process".
However, precedent suggests that the CCCC, now chaired by Tyrone man Seamus Woods, will study the match video and it will not be a surprise if a number of players are asked to explain various actions.
Despite the chorus of criticism directed at the teams after the game, Derry manager Damien Cassidy made no apologies for his team's approach.
"It was a battle but it was not going to be anything else," said a delighted Derry boss.
All we care about is the result and that's all that matters in this game
Derry manager Damien Cassidy
"People sitting at home may be complaining about the quality of football but we are not in the buisness of entertaining people.
"This is an amateur game - you sacrifice your working like and your family life and we don't get paid for entertaining people.
"We showed the football we can play in the last 15 minutes but up until then it was a physical game and that's what we expect.
"All we care about is the result and that's all that matters in this game.
"I don't think Fergal should have been sent-off. Someone was holding the ball and he put the shoulder in him and that's part of the game." ??? serious ???
However, Cassidy is now facing the possibility of being short-handed for the Ulster semi-final against Tyrone or Armagh on 21 June if the CCCC opts to take action.
Cassidy already has several injury problems with Enda Muldoon (broken foot), Niall McCusker (groin operation), Sean Marty Lockhart (ankle) all currently out of action.
some crying on this thread. :D :D
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2009, 02:20:25 PM
Quote from: bingobus on May 25, 2009, 10:13:40 AM
Also heard that the area behind the stand is very narrow and toilets all down one end and at half time a serious crush was developing with alot of children involved.
Yep, new stand is nice, but the exit areas are very narrow and there was some crushing trying to get in and out at times. Also, stewards did absolutely nothing to help the situation - just looked on.
Agree 100%. It was downright dangerous. The passageway is quite narrow and all the smokers congregated there. So at half time when people were going to the toilets it became jammed, children in the middle of it all too. I was stuck in the middle of it for a good 5 mins without anyone getting up or down. When I finally got back the the stand, I see 2 stewards (if you can call frontiline paid security guards stewards) standing chatting and smoking themselves. This was downright dangerous. The stewards failed miserably to do anything and its a miracle no-one was hurt.
Bar that, I must say I thought the new stand was really good, even though its difficult to see both corners of the pitch from anywhere but right in the middle.
There were plenty of inbreds on this board whining about Ricey and Tommy during the league yet they're now loathe to condemn the trampish behaviour of Doherty and Mullin ... yes Monaghan can be a dirty shower but to listen to the Derry wans you'd think butter wouldn't melt
Quote from: red hander on May 25, 2009, 04:37:35 PM
There were plenty of inbreds on this board whining about Ricey and Tommy during the league yet they're now loathe to condemn the trampish behaviour of Doherty and Mullin ... yes Monaghan can be a dirty shower but to listen to the Derry wans you'd think butter wouldn't melt
Cameltohill suggested an end to this thread, I'd say mission accomplished there RH :D
Quote from: red hander on May 25, 2009, 04:37:35 PM
There were plenty of inbreds on this board whining about Ricey and Tommy during the league yet they're now loathe to condemn the trampish behaviour of Doherty and Mullin ... yes Monaghan can be a dirty shower but to listen to the Derry wans you'd think butter wouldn't melt
Don't know why Tyronies would be whinging about their own players but anyway, I think every Derry poster knows that the actions of those involved in any of the incidents yesterday should and will get punished! I would say that Mullan's was worse than Ricey's. A full blown knee to the balls is completely out of order.
I however would tend to stick to my guns when I say that Derry generally are not this type of team whereas Monaghan are always this type of team! Lets not bring the Derry / Tyrone thing into this, everyone will agree Mullan's was worse than Ricey's. Monaghan's hard man attitude did not work for them yesterday and I am glad Derry decided to stand up for themsleves. Perhaps if Tyrone had been beaten by them in the championship two years running you would gain some perspective. I also do understand that there is a difference in standing up for yourself and going overboard. Rory Woods was the most dangerous player on the field yesterday. Every incident that he got involved in had nothing to do with him, always the 3rd man.
Suspensions will be handed out, rightly so.
Derry won, I am happy.
All respect for Monaghan, gone.
Just watch this on the TSG now. I can't believe they though the ref had a good game. In what world did he have a good game . Some of the tackles wouldn't of been out of place on a Rugby pitch. A few Red cards early on would of sorted out this game .
Quote from: orangeman on May 25, 2009, 03:22:13 PM
GAA set to view Celtic Park video
Kevin McGuckin and Thomas Freeman have a wrestling match at Celtic Park
GAA disciplinary bosses look likely to use video evidence to view a number of incidents from Sunday's Ulster SFC clash between Derry and Monaghan.
Derry's Fergal Doherty was sent off and there are several other incidents which are expected to be viewed by the Central Competitions Control Committee.
Oak Leaf sub Brian Mullan appeared to knee Monaghan's Conor McManus in the groin area during a second-half tussle.
Monaghan's Thomas Freeman also appeared to clash with Derry's Kevin McGuckin.
There have also been media reports that a Monaghan player was struck by a supporter midway through the second half of the bad-tempered Celtic Park encounter.
Doherty received his marching orders after shouldering Monaghan's Gary McQuaid in the chest in an effort to get the ball, following the awarding of a free to Derry.
The Derry captain was also caught on camera, aiming a kick at Dick Clerkin and the respective midfielders were in each other's faces for the entire game.
Croke Park refused to comment on the incidents on Monday with GAA president Christy Cooney saying that it would be inappropriate to say anything which "could interfere with due process".
However, precedent suggests that the CCCC, now chaired by Tyrone man Seamus Woods, will study the match video and it will not be a surprise if a number of players are asked to explain various actions.
Despite the chorus of criticism directed at the teams after the game, Derry manager Damien Cassidy made no apologies for his team's approach.
"It was a battle but it was not going to be anything else," said a delighted Derry boss.
All we care about is the result and that's all that matters in this game
Derry manager Damien Cassidy
"People sitting at home may be complaining about the quality of football but we are not in the buisness of entertaining people.
"This is an amateur game - you sacrifice your working like and your family life and we don't get paid for entertaining people.
"We showed the football we can play in the last 15 minutes but up until then it was a physical game and that's what we expect.
"All we care about is the result and that's all that matters in this game.
"I don't think Fergal should have been sent-off. Someone was holding the ball and he put the shoulder in him and that's part of the game." ??? serious ???
However, Cassidy is now facing the possibility of being short-handed for the Ulster semi-final against Tyrone or Armagh on 21 June if the CCCC opts to take action.
Cassidy already has several injury problems with Enda Muldoon (broken foot), Niall McCusker (groin operation), Sean Marty Lockhart (ankle) all currently out of action.
I hope they look at the video and deal with any unsavoury incidents
I also hope they assess the referees performance.
Fergal was out of order and deserved his 2nd yellow leading to his departure, but to be fair he was about to take a free and Mc Quaid had no business being where he was, no excusing Fergals behaviour but Mc Quaid went looking for bother.
Quote from: RMDrive on May 25, 2009, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
Big Joe summed it up for me last night when he said ... "There's a manliness in the Ulster Championship. There was no manliness there today."
And as an Ulster man, I can definitely say that it was alien to me.
I would be an admirer of Joe Kernan and his Armagh team but if there was no manliness in yesterdays game,well then there was no manliness in most games that Joe was involved in as Armagh manager.
Serious amount of whinging lads.Myself and my brother walked away from Celtic park yesterday,and all we could talk about was the Intensity that both teams brought.Thats Championship football. And if both teams can reproduce the same intensity they will take stopping.
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 07:22:15 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on May 25, 2009, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
Big Joe summed it up for me last night when he said ... "There's a manliness in the Ulster Championship. There was no manliness there today."
And as an Ulster man, I can definitely say that it was alien to me.
I would be an admirer of Joe Kernan and his Armagh team but if there was no manliness in yesterdays game,well then there was no manliness in most games that Joe was involved in as Armagh manager.
Serious amount of whinging lads.Myself and my brother walked away from Celtic park yesterday,and all we could talk about was the Intensity that both teams brought.Thats Championship football. And if both teams can reproduce the same intensity they will take stopping.
Jaysus! ::)
I have seen more intensity at an under-12s
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 25, 2009, 05:04:00 PM
Monaghan's hard man attitude did not work for them yesterday and I am glad Derry decided to stand up for themsleves.
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 25, 2009, 05:04:00 PM
I also do understand that there is a difference in standing up for yourself and going overboard.
So which did Derry do yesterday? Stand up for themselves or go overboard?
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 25, 2009, 05:04:00 PM
Rory Woods was the most dangerous player on the field yesterday. Every incident that he got involved in had nothing to do with him, always the 3rd man.
Eh? Come on! Rory Woods can be hot headed and shouldn't get involved in such incidents, but how was he
"the most dangerous player on the field yesterday"? Did he kick anyone? Did he headbutt anyone? Did he grab anyone by the legs? Did he knee anyone in the groin? I'm open to correction if i missed something, but the most he did was pushing and shoving - in comparison to some of yesterday's incidents... foolish yes, but hardly dangerous.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:31:08 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 07:22:15 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on May 25, 2009, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
Big Joe summed it up for me last night when he said ... "There's a manliness in the Ulster Championship. There was no manliness there today."
And as an Ulster man, I can definitely say that it was alien to me.
I would be an admirer of Joe Kernan and his Armagh team but if there was no manliness in yesterdays game,well then there was no manliness in most games that Joe was involved in as Armagh manager.
Serious amount of whinging lads.Myself and my brother walked away from Celtic park yesterday,and all we could talk about was the Intensity that both teams brought.Thats Championship football. And if both teams can reproduce the same intensity they will take stopping.
Jaysus! ::)
I have seen more intensity at an under-12s
You obviously weren't there. There were a lot of things lacking yesterday, intensity certainly wasn't one of them. Have to say for all the nonsense I really enjoyed the intensity of it all.
And by the way Maguire Woods did kick someone. Seen him do it when he was no more than a foot from the ref when his back was turned.
Not so much dangerous as you say but childish. Pathetic all the same. Mullan will get a ban, possibly Freeman and that will be it.
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 25, 2009, 07:42:30 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:31:08 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 07:22:15 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on May 25, 2009, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
Big Joe summed it up for me last night when he said ... "There's a manliness in the Ulster Championship. There was no manliness there today."
And as an Ulster man, I can definitely say that it was alien to me.
I would be an admirer of Joe Kernan and his Armagh team but if there was no manliness in yesterdays game,well then there was no manliness in most games that Joe was involved in as Armagh manager.
Serious amount of whinging lads.Myself and my brother walked away from Celtic park yesterday,and all we could talk about was the Intensity that both teams brought.Thats Championship football. And if both teams can reproduce the same intensity they will take stopping.
Jaysus! ::)
I have seen more intensity at an under-12s
You obviously weren't there. There were a lot of things lacking yesterday, intensity certainly wasn't one of them. Have to say for all the nonsense I really enjoyed the intensity of it all.
And by the way Maguire Woods did kick someone. Seen him do it when he was no more than a foot from the ref when his back was turned.
Not so much dangerous as you say but childish. Pathetic all the same. Mullan will get a ban, possibly Freeman and that will be it.
Seen Rory do that alright,down beside the goals,stupid little kick but lucky all the same. Obviously Joe Kernan must be coaching these Under-12s you speak off.Must be a manly bunch of lads. :D :D
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 25, 2009, 07:42:30 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 07:31:08 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 07:22:15 PM
Quote from: RMDrive on May 25, 2009, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 25, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2009, 10:36:21 AM
Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.
Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.
Saffron cop the f**k on will ya.I was at the game yesterday as a neutral(Cavan man) and I seen bad incidents from both sides.Both teams played on the edge and at times it wasnt pretty but it was Ulster football,played at an intensity which at times was brilliant. Blaming Monaghan solely for yesterdays spectacle and saying they shud be left out of the Qualifiers is totally outrageous.I tell ya one thing,I would love if my club played with the same intensity that either team played with yesterday.No Quarter asked No Quarter given.Let the Media go to town and highlight the bad incidents,and rightly so.But dont talk as if yesterdays game is alien to us,its not,it was Ulster football,with extra bad blood thrown in.Some lads will get suspensions and deservedly so,but lets leave it at that.
Big Joe summed it up for me last night when he said ... "There's a manliness in the Ulster Championship. There was no manliness there today."
And as an Ulster man, I can definitely say that it was alien to me.
I would be an admirer of Joe Kernan and his Armagh team but if there was no manliness in yesterdays game,well then there was no manliness in most games that Joe was involved in as Armagh manager.
Serious amount of whinging lads.Myself and my brother walked away from Celtic park yesterday,and all we could talk about was the Intensity that both teams brought.Thats Championship football. And if both teams can reproduce the same intensity they will take stopping.
Jaysus! ::)
I have seen more intensity at an under-12s
You obviously weren't there. There were a lot of things lacking yesterday, intensity certainly wasn't one of them. Have to say for all the nonsense I really enjoyed the intensity of it all.
And by the way Maguire Woods did kick someone. Seen him do it when he was no more than a foot from the ref when his back was turned.
Not so much dangerous as you say but childish. Pathetic all the same. Mullan will get a ban, possibly Freeman and that will be it.
Intensity?
Catch yourself on.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2009, 07:37:17 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 25, 2009, 05:04:00 PM
Rory Woods was the most dangerous player on the field yesterday. Every incident that he got involved in had nothing to do with him, always the 3rd man.
Eh? Come on! Rory Woods can be hot headed and shouldn't get involved in such incidents, but how was he "the most dangerous player on the field yesterday"? Did he kick anyone? Did he headbutt anyone? Did he grab anyone by the legs? Did he knee anyone in the groin? I'm open to correction if i missed something, but the most he did was pushing and shoving - in comparison to some of yesterday's incidents... foolish yes, but hardly dangerous.
Nah, as I said before Freeman's challenge on McGuigan was the most dangerous by a mile - lucky that serious injury wasn't suffered.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 08:29:34 PM
Intensity?
Catch yourself on.
[/quote]
were ya at the game?
Quote from: Bogball XV on May 25, 2009, 08:37:59 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2009, 07:37:17 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 25, 2009, 05:04:00 PM
Rory Woods was the most dangerous player on the field yesterday. Every incident that he got involved in had nothing to do with him, always the 3rd man.
Eh? Come on! Rory Woods can be hot headed and shouldn't get involved in such incidents, but how was he "the most dangerous player on the field yesterday"? Did he kick anyone? Did he headbutt anyone? Did he grab anyone by the legs? Did he knee anyone in the groin? I'm open to correction if i missed something, but the most he did was pushing and shoving - in comparison to some of yesterday's incidents... foolish yes, but hardly dangerous.
Nah, as I said before Freeman's challenge on McGuigan was the most dangerous by a mile - lucky that serious injury wasn't suffered.
A headbutt more dangerous than a knee in the groin, by a mile?
I was at the game, it was a very intense match, there was some great tackling and big hits going in, most of the players were out on their feet in the last 5 minutes due to the level of effort they put in. This was of course overshadowed by about 8 or 9 off the ball incidents.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2009, 08:44:38 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on May 25, 2009, 08:37:59 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2009, 07:37:17 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 25, 2009, 05:04:00 PM
Rory Woods was the most dangerous player on the field yesterday. Every incident that he got involved in had nothing to do with him, always the 3rd man.
Eh? Come on! Rory Woods can be hot headed and shouldn't get involved in such incidents, but how was he "the most dangerous player on the field yesterday"? Did he kick anyone? Did he headbutt anyone? Did he grab anyone by the legs? Did he knee anyone in the groin? I'm open to correction if i missed something, but the most he did was pushing and shoving - in comparison to some of yesterday's incidents... foolish yes, but hardly dangerous.
Nah, as I said before Freeman's challenge on McGuigan was the most dangerous by a mile - lucky that serious injury wasn't suffered.
A headbutt more dangerous than a knee in the groin, by a mile?
I think he's on about the challenge on Barry McGuigan where Tommy ran across him and pulled him down on the run. Cynical, most definately. One of the most dangerous yesterday, not close.
Awful game, spoiled by the shitty attitude of both teams. I thought Monaghan were the main instigators but Derry were too happy to get involved themselves. I don't really buy into this being a physical contest between 2 hard hitting sides. Didn't see much evidence of that from the telly. Plenty of bitchy stuff on show though, petulant wee kicks, mouthing, wrestling etc etc. Not much manliness though. Clerkin's a messer and was very lucky not to get lined. Was a bit disappointed with Damian Cassidy, thought he should have instructed his players not to get involved and stick to the football. Fergal Doherty's going to need to sort himself out if Derry are going to do any business this year.
Quote from: Schkite on May 25, 2009, 08:54:53 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2009, 08:44:38 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on May 25, 2009, 08:37:59 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2009, 07:37:17 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 25, 2009, 05:04:00 PM
Rory Woods was the most dangerous player on the field yesterday. Every incident that he got involved in had nothing to do with him, always the 3rd man.
Eh? Come on! Rory Woods can be hot headed and shouldn't get involved in such incidents, but how was he "the most dangerous player on the field yesterday"? Did he kick anyone? Did he headbutt anyone? Did he grab anyone by the legs? Did he knee anyone in the groin? I'm open to correction if i missed something, but the most he did was pushing and shoving - in comparison to some of yesterday's incidents... foolish yes, but hardly dangerous.
Nah, as I said before Freeman's challenge on McGuigan was the most dangerous by a mile - lucky that serious injury wasn't suffered.
A headbutt more dangerous than a knee in the groin, by a mile?
I think he's on about the challenge on Barry McGuigan where Tommy ran across him and pulled him down on the run. Cynical, most definately. One of the most dangerous yesterday, not close.
That's the one, it could easily have resulted in a broken leg imo, I don't think there were any other challenges that could be termed 'dangerous'.
I suppose the fact Tommy was running in at an angle made it worse, but still he just took him out, very cynical but it would have been a freak accident if anything like a broken leg happened imo. I'd say Mullen's knee was more dangerous in fairness, he drove it in with force.
Right I've been hanging back a bit and taking it all in and feel I can comment on it now where it will not get lost in a tit for tat slagging match.
I enjoyed the game yesterday. Men put their bodies on the line for the Championship and it wasn't pretty and it did overstep the line a few times but it was exciting and hard hitting and I couldn't take my eyes away for a second for fear of missing something.
In my opinion Monaghan started all the nastiness! Even before a ball was thrown in the 2 Bradleys were getting elbowed and kicked around the place. Monaghan players were constantly standing on toes/raking studs down legs, firing verbals about the whole bit, and the incident with the Derry waterboy when the Monaghan defenders wouldn't let Bradley get a drink was a disgrace!!! In the face of this adversity I thought Derry stood up well and there were 2 instances when we went overboard and that was Mullan's knee and Doc's kick on Clerkin. In fairness to Doc he shouldn't have went for that shoulder he made on McManus but the kick beforehand meant that he should've gotten his second yellow card. He had lost it by this stage and it was better he went for what did happen rather than lose it completely and do something he would get banned for.
On to the game I thought we were just the better team with better footballers. Our defence were excellent with Kevin McGuckin back to his best. Midfield struggled and Doherty had one of his poorer days for Derry but I hope he doesn't get distracted like that again otherwise it will cost us. What impressed me most was how we attacked yesterday. For 2 years we kept hitting ball into the Bradleys only for Freeman to get the ball as a sweeper. Yesterday we worked the ball up and then gave it to the men who can shoot long range and they did the business. Kielt, Bradley, McGoldrick all took excellent scores that 2nd half and it worked well.
As for the hoopla well I don't think it was as bad as the Ricey incident where he intentionally grabbed someone in the balls but Mullan will no doubt find himself in serious bother. From the camera angle you can't tell if he kneed your man in the ribs or the nuts so he should get the mandatory suspension for kneeing someone and be done with it. As for Doherty well it was a small kick but a kick nonetheless so we will have to see what the powers that be make of it. Freeman for his headbutt and Clerkin for his knee to Doherty could also be looking at some kind of censure.
I thought the Referee was very stupid in trying to let this game flow and he had an absolute stinker. There are rules in place to stop games like these descending into chaos and he didn't use them. Any players mouthing should be booked and off if they do it again, 3rd and 4th men into a melee are entitled to be sent off also. Had he sent Doherty and Clerkin off early doors the game would have been a much better spectacle but without the referee taking any action the game just turned into a farce... A good win for us and hopefully teams will see that we can't be bullied out of games anymore and try to match us with football from now on. I think we'll be pretty handy when it comes to that as well! :)
Good summary
Quote from: hardstation on May 25, 2009, 10:17:23 PM
QuoteAs for the hoopla well I don't think it was as bad as the Ricey incident where he intentionally grabbed someone in the balls
Wise the f**k up.
I know, both were equally as bad, Mullan intentionally looked around to see if any officials were looking then kneed him in the nuts, Ricey walked over to Galvin and nipped him in his. Bot bad both merit same punishment.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 25, 2009, 10:23:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 25, 2009, 10:17:23 PM
QuoteAs for the hoopla well I don't think it was as bad as the Ricey incident where he intentionally grabbed someone in the balls
Wise the f**k up.
I know, both were equally as bad, Mullan intentionally looked around to see if any officials were looking then kneed him in the nuts, Ricey walked over to Galvin and nipped him in his. Bot bad both merit same punishment.
Completely disagree. Mullan's was a lot more reckless and dangerous.
There's no discussion there.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 25, 2009, 10:23:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 25, 2009, 10:17:23 PM
QuoteAs for the hoopla well I don't think it was as bad as the Ricey incident where he intentionally grabbed someone in the balls
Wise the f**k up.
I know, both were equally as bad, Mullan intentionally looked around to see if any officials were looking then kneed him in the nuts, Ricey walked over to Galvin and nipped him in his. Bot bad both merit same punishment.
you must have some bird if you think a wee grope and a knee in the balls is the same thing
The Bradleys may have been getting abuse before the throw-in but sure they weren't the only ones. Barry McGoldrick reached around and hit Finlay in the head, easy to focus on the incidents you want to.
Ricey nipped him in the balls I doubt he went over to tickle them.
Quote from: Schkite on May 25, 2009, 10:33:06 PM
The Bradleys may have been getting abuse before the throw-in but sure they weren't the only ones. Barry McGoldrick reached around and hit Finlay in the head, easy to focus on the incidents you want to.
The Moen's have been at that for years.
Maybe I missed it among the 50 odd pages on this game but did anyone else spot a Derry fan throwing a slap at Darren Hughes. Thought I saw something happen when watch it live but there were no replays on RTE, but people on Hoganstand have seen it. He was retrieving a sideline ball when it happened.
I think that was the least of what was happening! lol!
I'd say the crowd were watching one of 12 seperate off the ball tussles just then
Quote from: thejuice on May 25, 2009, 10:39:33 PM
Maybe I missed it among the 50 odd pages on this game but did anyone else spot a Derry fan throwing a slap at Darren Hughes. Thought I saw something happen when watch it live but there were no replays on RTE, but people on Hoganstand have seen it. He was retrieving a sideline ball when it happened.
That paragon of truth and virtue?
Pushing and shoving. No punches thrown by either Hughes or any fans.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 25, 2009, 10:33:39 PM
Ricey nipped him in the balls I doubt he went over to tickle them.
Admittedly neither are pleasant, but I'd rather have been in Paul Galvin's place than Conor McManus'.
Can't believe you can't admit that.
As for the Hughes incident I think that's a lot of rubbish. There was a little clash as he went to retrieve tha ball. Was close to it but didn't quite see it. Someone beside me did and said something was thrown at Hughes. I turned straight away to the incident and Hughes certainly didn't look like he'd been punched. Slight pushing and shoving I think.
Quote from: JMohan on May 25, 2009, 10:37:32 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 25, 2009, 10:33:06 PM
The Bradleys may have been getting abuse before the throw-in but sure they weren't the only ones. Barry McGoldrick reached around and hit Finlay in the head, easy to focus on the incidents you want to.
The Moen's have been at that for years.
Sure Dessie's only been a defender for a couple of years, all that fending off boxes from opposing defenders before that must have helped him learn quick eh? ;)
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 25, 2009, 10:42:32 PM
Quote from: thejuice on May 25, 2009, 10:39:33 PM
Maybe I missed it among the 50 odd pages on this game but did anyone else spot a Derry fan throwing a slap at Darren Hughes. Thought I saw something happen when watch it live but there were no replays on RTE, but people on Hoganstand have seen it. He was retrieving a sideline ball when it happened.
That paragon of truth and virtue?
Pushing and shoving. No punches thrown by either Hughes or any fans.
Fair enough.
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 25, 2009, 10:42:32 PM
Quote from: thejuice on May 25, 2009, 10:39:33 PM
Maybe I missed it among the 50 odd pages on this game but did anyone else spot a Derry fan throwing a slap at Darren Hughes. Thought I saw something happen when watch it live but there were no replays on RTE, but people on Hoganstand have seen it. He was retrieving a sideline ball when it happened.
That paragon of truth and virtue?
Pushing and shoving. No punches thrown by either Hughes or any fans.
56min in. Hughes pushes spectator who throws a weak punch that doesn't connect. Hughes needs to be punished for that. You can't have fans being put in danger at games. I know no one was hurn in this instance however what if the guy had tripped when pushed and cracked his head off the ground.
Quote from: RMDrive on May 25, 2009, 10:47:57 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 25, 2009, 10:42:32 PM
Quote from: thejuice on May 25, 2009, 10:39:33 PM
Maybe I missed it among the 50 odd pages on this game but did anyone else spot a Derry fan throwing a slap at Darren Hughes. Thought I saw something happen when watch it live but there were no replays on RTE, but people on Hoganstand have seen it. He was retrieving a sideline ball when it happened.
That paragon of truth and virtue?
Pushing and shoving. No punches thrown by either Hughes or any fans.
56min in. Hughes pushes spectator who throws a weak punch that doesn't connect. Hughes needs to be punished for that. You can't have fans being put in danger at games. I know no one was hurn in this instance however what if the guy had tripped when pushed and cracked his head off the ground.
Yeah you would think that there will be some action taken with Darren Hughes. As minimal as the incident may have been you can't have players interfering with the supporters!
So how likely is it that Monaghan and Derry players will get sanctions from the CCCC investigation into the match ???????
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no chance of a suspension and 10 being certain of getting a suspension, how would you rate these lads and the alleged offences ?
Fergal Doherty - gouging 1/10
Fergal Doherty - kicking 8/10
Tommy Freeman headbutt 8/10
Richard Clerkin knee - 4/10
Brian Mullan - knee - 12/10
Anyone else ??
Doherty, Mullan and Freeman all deserve to be punished as severely as possible from what I saw. I missed the incident involving Clerkin kneeing.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 11:41:44 PM
Doherty, Mullan and Freeman all deserve to be punished as severely as possible from what I saw. I missed the incident involving Clerkin kneeing.
I'm not being smart here, but aside fromwhat lead to his sending off what did fergal do that merits a suspension?
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 25, 2009, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 11:41:44 PM
Doherty, Mullan and Freeman all deserve to be punished as severely as possible from what I saw. I missed the incident involving Clerkin kneeing.
I'm not being smart here, but aside fromwhat lead to his sending off what did fergal do that merits a suspension?
He put his shoe in Richard Clerkin's leg !!
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 25, 2009, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 25, 2009, 11:41:44 PM
Doherty, Mullan and Freeman all deserve to be punished as severely as possible from what I saw. I missed the incident involving Clerkin kneeing.
I'm not being smart here, but aside fromwhat lead to his sending off what did fergal do that merits a suspension?
What didn't he do?
Fair enough, I was just asking.
Just re watched the game Hughes pushed fan fan pushed back, much ado about nothing.
Poor scrappy game all round
Monaghan came out to intimidate the Derry wans who reacted by kicking the shite out of Monaghan :D
Brian Mullan will get a few months & Doherty could have walked earlier
The real championship starts this Sunday ;)
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 25, 2009, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 25, 2009, 05:04:00 PM
Monaghan's hard man attitude did not work for them yesterday and I am glad Derry decided to stand up for themsleves.
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 25, 2009, 05:04:00 PM
I also do understand that there is a difference in standing up for yourself and going overboard.
So which did Derry do yesterday? Stand up for themselves or go overboard?
I would say the majority of Derry players stood up for themselves, Kevin McGuckin was an inspiration if you ask me not to become more involved with Freeman. However there was Doc and Mullan getting involved in incidents that can only warratn further punishment. My point that I will stress again is that Derry are not normally this type of team. Monaghan are and you cannot argue with that.
As for comparing Mullan's incident with Monobrows, Mullan's is streets ahead in terms of how dangerous it was. A full blown knee. Thats not football, thats not being passionate, thats being stupid and wreckless and extremely dangerous. He can wave good bye to his summer in my opinion.
As for the Rory Woods thing, he DID kick someone yes as I seen it myself. Actually wasnt in front of the goals as someone elese stated so either they're wrong or he did it more than once! By "most dangerous player on the field" you aren't grasping what I'm saying. He was constantly coming in when the incident has almost settled and threw a cowardly shoulder into the back of whoever was nearest to him. It is this 3rd man that causes the most rows in football and that is why I was saying he was the most dangerous player on the field. Isolated incidents? Well it has to be Brian Mullan's.
Derry wans may say they were standing up for themselves, but on one occasion the Derry full back line (including the keeper) were getting stuck into the Monaghan full forward line when the ball was at the far end of the field. No one can tell me it was Monaghan who started that
Quote from: full back on May 26, 2009, 08:53:19 AM
Derry wans may say they were standing up for themselves, but on one occasion the Derry full back line (including the keeper) were getting stuck into the Monaghan full forward line when the ball was at the far end of the field. No one can tell me it was Monaghan who started that
Did you see this happen? I was at it but only seen the incident when everyone was involved so don't know how it started. I would be thinking that it is of absolutely no benefit to the defence to start this as the umpires can bring this to the refs attention and more than likely end up in a yellow card for both parties, which is obviously a bigger disadvantage for the defence. Freeman was acting the maggot a bit on Sun and threw the leg out at Gillis at a stage (this was when he hurt his arm (however he managed to do that!)). However I did enjoy seeing him give McGuckin a quick hand shake after they had collided over at the sideline and McGuckin came worse off. Thats a better attitude than most adopted.
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 26, 2009, 09:09:55 AM
Quote from: full back on May 26, 2009, 08:53:19 AM
Derry wans may say they were standing up for themselves, but on one occasion the Derry full back line (including the keeper) were getting stuck into the Monaghan full forward line when the ball was at the far end of the field. No one can tell me it was Monaghan who started that
Did you see this happen? I was at it but only seen the incident when everyone was involved so don't know how it started. I would be thinking that it is of absolutely no benefit to the defence to start this as the umpires can bring this to the refs attention and more than likely end up in a yellow card for both parties, which is obviously a bigger disadvantage for the defence. Freeman was acting the maggot a bit on Sun and threw the leg out at Gillis at a stage (this was when he hurt his arm (however he managed to do that!)). However I did enjoy seeing him give McGuckin a quick hand shake after they had collided over at the sideline and McGuckin came worse off. Thats a better attitude than most adopted.
Only saw what the cameras caught, but it would be of less advantage for the forwards to start it IMHO
Not sure what to make of it, I can see what you mean, particularly as Monaghan were attacking at this stage! I think umpires should have more of an input, even talking to the players as opposed to standing like dummies. However if the forwards start it and referee books both men, the defender is skating on thin ice and cannot afford to commit himself to a rash tackle. the likes of Freeman wasn't born yesterday ;)
Derry were as much to blame for Sun's game as Monaghan were but I feel that Monaghan are as cynical a team as you will come across and Derry needed to stand up for themselves or risk being bullied out of yet ANOTHER game by Monaghan (3 years in a row). Derry's antics to me were reactive as opposed to proactive. A few of our players were very out of order yesterday and will get their punishments no doubt.
The only derry player who might get suspened from the game will be mullan. The ref dealt with Doherty. He did nothing that would merit a suspension.
No its important that Doherty goes, to me he behaved like Ricey against Kerry running about putulantly looking the row - he subsequently got suspended and that changed the man for the better. I would go as far as saying that if Doherty dosent get suspended he will single handedly bring down derrys season, I think he has alreday cost them Ulster glory as neither established team Tyrone and Armagh would stand for that upstarty nonsense and will have their cloth well cut to suit their battle with the nouveaux riche. As much as I enjoyed the game could we please lose the nauseating "well we are now no longer prepared to be bullied" line being trotted out by the derry wans. Those shrinking violets from the snowcap of tyrone have been arguably the dirtiest team in Ulster for over 10 years its only they never had the footballers to get their games shown on TV - now they have and now they are in the dock.
Quote from: rrhf on May 26, 2009, 09:38:19 AM
No its important that Doherty goes, to me he behaved like Ricey against Kerry running about putulantly looking the row - he subsequently got suspended and that changed the man.
I would hold the judgement on that until the end of the Summer
The umpires & linesmen at Sundays game might as well not have been there
There is no chance that they all missed every incident that went on
Quote from: rrhf on May 26, 2009, 09:38:19 AM
No its important that Doherty goes, to me he behaved like Ricey against Kerry running about putulantly looking the row - he subsequently got suspended and that changed the man for the better. I would go as far as saying that if Doherty dosent get suspended he will single handedly bring down derrys season, I think he has alreday cost them Ulster glory as neither established team Tyrone and Armagh would stand for that upstarty nonsense and will have their cloth well cut to suit their battle with the nouveaux riche. As much as I enjoyed the game could we please lose the nauseating "well we are now no longer prepared to be bullied" line being trotted out by the derry wans. Those shrinking violets from the snowcap of tyrone have been arguably the dirtiest team in Ulster for over 10 years its only they never had the footballers to get their games shown on TV - now they have and now they are in the dock.
::) to the whole post
Quote from: rrhf on May 26, 2009, 09:38:19 AM
No its important that Doherty goes, to me he behaved like Ricey against Kerry running about putulantly looking the row - he subsequently got suspended and that changed the man for the better. I would go as far as saying that if Doherty dosent get suspended he will single handedly bring down derrys season, I think he has alreday cost them Ulster glory as neither established team Tyrone and Armagh would stand for that upstarty nonsense and will have their cloth well cut to suit their battle with the nouveaux riche. As much as I enjoyed the game could we please lose the nauseating "well we are now no longer prepared to be bullied" line being trotted out by the derry wans. Those shrinking violets from the snowcap of tyrone have been arguably the dirtiest team in Ulster for over 10 years its only they never had the footballers to get their games shown on TV - now they have and now they are in the dock.
Well theres a crock of shit. Our season will be off the rails if doc survives suspension ???
Doherty doesnt go looking for rows but he has reacted on a couple of occasions. He lost it with Clerkin and played right into Dicks hands. Doherty is worth too much to us for what he brings to the team to instigate petty crap and he knows it. He isnt in Riceys league for instigating petulance.
Doc is a tough, clean player who won't take crap from anyone, nor will he go about starting trouble. Thats not to say Derry havent had dirty players, far from it.
Also, im sure your on the wind up in general but its very ironic to hear a tyrone poster calling someone else the 'nouveaux riche (sic)'
The last part of the post is just nonsense fit for the hoganstand, actually the whole post is.
Quote from: rrhf on May 26, 2009, 09:38:19 AM
No its important that Doherty goes, to me he behaved like Ricey against Kerry running about putulantly looking the row - he subsequently got suspended and that changed the man for the better. I would go as far as saying that if Doherty dosent get suspended he will single handedly bring down derrys season, I think he has alreday cost them Ulster glory as neither established team Tyrone and Armagh would stand for that upstarty nonsense and will have their cloth well cut to suit their battle with the nouveaux riche. As much as I enjoyed the game could we please lose the nauseating "well we are now no longer prepared to be bullied" line being trotted out by the derry wans. Those shrinking violets from the snowcap of tyrone have been arguably the dirtiest team in Ulster for over 10 years its only they never had the footballers to get their games shown on TV - now they have and now they are in the dock.
the difference Doherty got his medicine by being sent off. Ricey got his medicine after the game. Where is the evidence that Ricey has changed?
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 09:59:52 AM
Doc is a tough, clean player who won't take crap from anyone, nor will he go about starting trouble. Thats not to say Derry havent had dirty players, far from it.
Tough - yes
Clean - no (look at Sunday for evidence)
Quote from: full back on May 26, 2009, 10:02:21 AM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 09:59:52 AM
Doc is a tough, clean player who won't take crap from anyone, nor will he go about starting trouble. Thats not to say Derry havent had dirty players, far from it.
Tough - yes
Clean - no (look at Sunday for evidence)
I'll give you Sunday and the backhand cuff on Rory Kavanagh last year. Thats it.
For the imposing type of player that he is, who puts in plenty of big hits and tackles, thats a short list.
Anyone who has ever played the game at any level cant be serious if they say Dicks behaviour throughout the game wouldnt have tempted them to give him a dig. I for one won't argue with a suspension for Doc, but I have zero sympathy for Clerkin getting a wee kick.
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 26, 2009, 09:30:27 AM
Not sure what to make of it, I can see what you mean, particularly as Monaghan were attacking at this stage! I think umpires should have more of an input, even talking to the players as opposed to standing like dummies. However if the forwards start it and referee books both men, the defender is skating on thin ice and cannot afford to commit himself to a rash tackle. the likes of Freeman wasn't born yesterday ;)
Derry were as much to blame for Sun's game as Monaghan were but I feel that Monaghan are as cynical a team as you will come across and Derry needed to stand up for themselves or risk being bullied out of yet ANOTHER game by Monaghan (3 years in a row). Derry's antics to me were reactive as opposed to proactive. A few of our players were very out of order yesterday and will get their punishments no doubt.
It started when derry were attacking, think it was freeman and mcguckian, then gillis and a few others got involved too, monaghan won the ball in their defence and had made it to round the 45 by the time the players realised, cue mad scramble for their positions :D
Once again though, reporting what happened is the type of thing umpires are there for - fcuk knows the ref's don't seem to trust the views of the worst positioned men in the pitch when it comes to dodgy point calls.
Did the cameras also not pick out Doherty stamping on Mone's back on one occasion. I don't know what his disciplinary record is like but his behgaviour on Sunday was that of a thug and he should be well punished for it.
Quote from: Winnie Peg on May 26, 2009, 10:30:22 AM
Did the cameras also not pick out Doherty stamping on Mone's back on one occasion. I don't know what his disciplinary record is like but his behgaviour on Sunday was that of a thug and he should be well punished for it.
You're mistaken.... he's a good gael and does work in the community (possibly community service). Dick is nasty and is related to the devil ::)
Quote from: Winnie Peg on May 26, 2009, 10:30:22 AM
Did the cameras also not pick out Doherty stamping on Mone's back on one occasion. I don't know what his disciplinary record is like but his behgaviour on Sunday was that of a thug and he should be well punished for it.
I would agree that his behaviour was thuggish alright, but having watched him for Derry and Bellaghy (where there are no neutral umpires or linesmen so if he wanted could get away with murder) he has always behaved as a tough player who wouldn't stoop to levels such as kicking and off the ball stuff. I can honestly say it was very out of character. He still deserves his punishment obviously.
Quote from: bingobus on May 26, 2009, 10:36:19 AM
Quote from: Winnie Peg on May 26, 2009, 10:30:22 AM
Did the cameras also not pick out Doherty stamping on Mone's back on one occasion. I don't know what his disciplinary record is like but his behgaviour on Sunday was that of a thug and he should be well punished for it.
You're mistaken.... he's a good gael and does work in the community (possibly community service). Dick is nasty and is related to the devil ::)
I would have said Dick was dastardly.
Good man Paddy Heaney. The voice of reason in a society of madness. Nothing happened on Sunday.
Quote from: bingobus on May 26, 2009, 10:36:19 AM
Quote from: Winnie Peg on May 26, 2009, 10:30:22 AM
Did the cameras also not pick out Doherty stamping on Mone's back on one occasion. I don't know what his disciplinary record is like but his behgaviour on Sunday was that of a thug and he should be well punished for it.
You're mistaken.... he's a good gael and does work in the community (possibly community service). Dick is nasty and is related to the devil ::)
Listening to Brolly, you would have thought you were in a courthouse & he was summing up FFS.
He may have done 'A, B & C' but he is an upstanding member of the community etc etc ::)
Leave that sort of drivel for the judge & jury Joe
Quote from: rrhf on May 26, 2009, 09:38:19 AM
No its important that Doherty goes, to me he behaved like Ricey against Kerry running about putulantly looking the row - he subsequently got suspended and that changed the man for the better. I would go as far as saying that if Doherty dosent get suspended he will single handedly bring down derrys season, I think he has alreday cost them Ulster glory as neither established team Tyrone and Armagh would stand for that upstarty nonsense and will have their cloth well cut to suit their battle with the nouveaux riche. As much as I enjoyed the game could we please lose the nauseating "well we are now no longer prepared to be bullied" line being trotted out by the derry wans. Those shrinking violets from the snowcap of tyrone have been arguably the dirtiest team in Ulster for over 10 years its only they never had the footballers to get their games shown on TV - now they have and now they are in the dock.
Why exactly do you feel it is important Doherty gets suspended? For little more than a tap on Celrkin's leg? - catch yourself on! sure nobody got killed (as you might say).
Let's rewind back to see what you thought of Tommy McGuigan's ball-breaker on Lockhart in the league:
Quote from: rrhf on April 02, 2009, 11:58:02 AM
Listen Sean Marty hurt more men uinfairly during that game than Tommy so what Tommy done was probably fair game within the context of the dual. It was harmless they shook hands and laughed about it after.
::) ::) ::)
----
Moving on to the Darren Hughes incident - i don't know if he/monaghan reported that he was hit by a fan, but he would have been advised to say nothing about this at it looks like he pushed the Derry fan first, in some sort of attempt to get the ball back.
It's one thing applying these tactics to opposition players, but don't take it into the terraces!! The GAA/CCCC should come down very heavily on Hughes for this.
Quote from: Will Hunting on May 26, 2009, 11:04:51 AM
Quote from: rrhf on May 26, 2009, 09:38:19 AM
No its important that Doherty goes, to me he behaved like Ricey against Kerry running about putulantly looking the row - he subsequently got suspended and that changed the man for the better. I would go as far as saying that if Doherty dosent get suspended he will single handedly bring down derrys season, I think he has alreday cost them Ulster glory as neither established team Tyrone and Armagh would stand for that upstarty nonsense and will have their cloth well cut to suit their battle with the nouveaux riche. As much as I enjoyed the game could we please lose the nauseating "well we are now no longer prepared to be bullied" line being trotted out by the derry wans. Those shrinking violets from the snowcap of tyrone have been arguably the dirtiest team in Ulster for over 10 years its only they never had the footballers to get their games shown on TV - now they have and now they are in the dock.
Why exactly do you feel it is important Doherty gets suspended? For little more than a tap on Celrkin's leg? - catch yourself on! sure nobody got killed (as you might say).
Let's rewind back to see what you thought of Tommy McGuigan's ball-breaker on Lockhart in the league:
Quote from: rrhf on April 02, 2009, 11:58:02 AM
Listen Sean Marty hurt more men uinfairly during that game than Tommy so what Tommy done was probably fair game within the context of the dual. It was harmless they shook hands and laughed about it after.
::) ::) ::)
----
Moving on to the Darren Hughes incident - i don't know if he/monaghan reported that he was hit by a fan, but he would have been advised to say nothing about this at it looks like he pushed the Derry fan first, in some sort of attempt to get the ball back.
It's one thing applying these tactics to opposition players, but don't take it into the terraces!! The GAA/CCCC should come down very heavily on Hughes for this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7660982.stm
QuoteWhy exactly do you feel it is important Doherty gets suspended? For little more than a tap on Celrkin's leg? - catch yourself on! sure nobody got killed (as you might say).
Jesus wept but that is some load of nonsense, I'd much rather if Clerkin and Doherty went toe to toe for a minute or two and then got on with it rather than this cowardly, sly, petulent shit that passes for 'hard man' antics today. What both of them did is called acting the maggot and is all too frequent in our games, the goading of opposition players and then going down as if shot if they retaliate is a real embarressment to our games and should be stamped out immediately. Watch this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re6E_MDrrno&feature=related if you want to see real footballers, I can only imagine the diving and prancing around that would go on nowadays if the same thing happened.
Maybe a bit off topic, but it happened again after the game on sunday.
The pundits on TV spend the whole discussion time talking about disgraceful scenes,off the ball action, how the third man tackle is the bane of our game and criticizing what they see as over physicality, then que the video montage at the end, were it is mad up of exactly all these incident set to music!
Similarly Most of these ads/montages used to advertise our games heavily focus on the big hits and physical confrontation.
I am not trying to defend some of the incidents in sundays game (mullan,docs kick or freemans head but)and there was too much acting the maggot by both sets of players,but people still need to realize its the physical aspect of our game that attracts alot of people, and to a large extent is used by the GAA when they want to ,to sell the game.
Mullan should get a suspension as should freeman and we should move on from it.it wasnt the worst game of football I have ever seen, and alot of people could do with getting down off thier high horse about 'over Physicality' in Ulster football
Thats rubbish. people would have been arrested for some of those incidents on the street. I've been to a lot of Ulster championship games- last Sunday was the worst I've seen since the Derry v Tyrone qualifier about 5 years ago.
There are still people here who seem to think that a different set of rules apply to the Ulster championship and this gives them a carte blanche to do whatever they bloody like. They don't. Headbutting and kicking somone in the balls is not physicality. Goading someone and kicking them constantly in the back of the legs is not physicality.
Physicality is going for 50/50 balls , hitting a fair shoulder , using your body in the tackle not the above shite.
Quote from: Zulu on May 26, 2009, 11:36:26 AM
QuoteWhy exactly do you feel it is important Doherty gets suspended? For little more than a tap on Celrkin's leg? - catch yourself on! sure nobody got killed (as you might say).
Jesus wept but that is some load of nonsense, I'd much rather if Clerkin and Doherty went toe to toe for a minute or two and then got on with it rather than this cowardly, sly, petulent shit that passes for 'hard man' antics today. What both of themm did is called acting the maggot and is all to frequent in our games, the goading of opposition players and then going down as if shot if they retaliate is a real embarressment to our games and should be stamped out immediately. Watch this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re6E_MDrrno&feature=related if you want to see real footballers, I can only imagine the diving and prancing around that would go on nowadays if the same thing happened.
Jesus wept but THAT is some load of nonsense. Do you really think folks would be on here praising Doherty as a 'real footballer' if he decked Clerkin with a left hook? No, he would proclaimed to be a complete thug. Catch yourself on.
Incidentally that kick from behind is the only time I have ever seen or heard of Doherty going for sly retaliation. Completely out of character for him.
Again, I would ask Indiana to stop coming in here on his high horse about Derry after the full scale thuggery and mass brawls from Dublin versus Tyrone and Monaghan in recent years. Sunday was not in the same league as those ties
Its a forum and I'll comment on whatever I like- I don't have to ask you for permission. Dublin weren't playing last Sunday and that has nothing to do with the events last Sunday. Stop bringing extraneous arguments into the debate. If Dublin were involved in the same shite I'd say exactly the same.
Theres some amount of 'Shock & Horror' and 'Please think of the Children' syndrome here. This outrage will last until the next bad thing happens. In 2001 when Liam Dunne and Brian O Meara tried to detach a few ribs from each other, there was a public outcry that it was such a shame that O Meara would miss the final over the red card received. Now were crying that possible suspensions wont be strong enough.
A few Derry players where interviewed on radio ulster after the game, and kept referring to the fact that their hunger was questioned by those within derry. "wans questioned the fire in our belly" was used several times. They also said that Monaghan had been the more physical team on the two previous occassions.
Obvious that they were sent out with instruction to play the way they did.
It's OK to play by the unwritten rules
Against the Breeze
By Paddy Heaney
26/05/2009
In 1987 Ballinderry and Newbridge 'played' two games in the Derry club championship. Both encounters are considered classics of that particular vintage.
Let me explain. There weren't that many at the drawn game, but it was an extremely brutal contest. There were punches aplenty. It was primal.
Word got around. The replay promised more of the same. It attracted thousands. It was played in Greenlough and they came from all over: from the Glens of Antrim, from all around the Loughshore, and from the deepest recesses of county Tyrone.
I was there too. Thank God. I'll never forget it. It was carnage. Hand-to-hand combat. Fights in every sector of the field.
Substitutes and spectators piling over the fences. Adult entertainment – and all for less than a fiver.
One memory has never left me. When the game eventually deteriorated into an all-out riot, a woman's voice could be heard piercing through the thin summer air. "You'ns are a disgrace, a disgrace," she squealed.
But she kept watching, transfixed like the rest of us. She never left. Her eyes stayed locked on the pitch. The paying punters got what they came to see, and in that case, probably a lot more.
I was thinking about that woman when I watched the TV pundits' reaction to Sunday's game in Celtic Park.
The outrage, the disgust, and the sniffy attitude towards the ugly scenes – what the hell did they
expect? What part of the last 125 years have they missed? What type of amnesia comes over
people once they enter a television studio?
Pat Spillane lifted the Sam Maguire Cup in 1975 when he was just 19-years-old. Pat lifted the Cup because the man who was supposed to perform the job, Mickey Ned O'Sullivan, was knocked unconscious during the game.
The four-game saga between Dublin and Meath in 1991 is widely eulogised. Colm O'Rourke was literally carried off the field in the fourth game after he was
pole-axed by Eamon Heery.
I once asked O'Rourke about Heery's tackle. He laughed it off, stating that if the roles were
reversed he would have done exactly the same thing.
Gaelic football has ever been thus. It's about winning, and it's about winning by whatever means necessary.
Pat Spillane said that he felt sorry for the supporters who paid into Celtic Park. Save your sympathy, Pat. The Derry fans walked out of Celtic Park glowing with satisfaction. Their team won. Money well spent.
Pat also lamented for the good old days when you could kick the ball up to your full-forwards. It's an understandable grievance, but his nostalgic yearning ignores the practical realities of the modern game.
Derry fans would also love it if their team could just kick the ball up to Paddy Bradley and then watch Paddy turn on the style. For the last two years they watched their team getting destroyed by trying to implement that very
tactic.
At most games, whenever a side passes the ball sideways or tries to run the ball through the
defence, some old duffer will eventually give the instruction to "get her in first day".
Yet it is a measure of how educated the modern-day fan is that I never heard one Derry man issue this command on Sunday. The experience of the previous two years has taught Derry that such a strategy against Monaghan is tantamount to football suicide.
It's a pity some of our TV analysts don't share the considered appreciation of the bog-standard supporter.
Sunday's game was always going to be a tactical and defensive battle. That's the way Monaghan play. They deploy a seventh defender. It works for them.
When Seamus McEnaney took over Monaghan, they were a mess. The previous year they finished nowhere in Division 2A and were obliterated by a vengeful Armagh in the 2004 Ulster Championship.
Under McEnaney, Monaghan have become tough and obdurate. He has taken them into Division One and they are regular visitors to Croke Park.
When Seamus played with a conventional defence in 2005, Paddy Bradley scored 1-8 and Derry kicked 1-17. Seamus learned his lesson.
And yet, Pat Spillane reckons that if Monaghan had been more positive they might have beaten Kerry. Nonsense.
If Monaghan played orthodox football against Kerry, 'the Gooch' would get a sore foot from kicking the ball over the bar.
Last year, Galway scored 1-16 against Kerry in a monsoon. The Kingdom scored 1-21. Kerry love playing Galway. They're not as fond of Monaghan.
Consider the contrast with soccer punditry. On
average, the current Barcelona team enjoys 65 per cent possession in every game it plays.
When Chelsea played two banks of four against them in the Champions League semi-final, there was no moaning from soccer analysts.
It was considered prudent, and a tacit recognition that it would be madness to leave a back four exposed to the terror of Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, and Eto'o.
The same will apply to Manchester United. No-one will condemn Alex Ferguson or deliver cries from the heart about the state of football if United employ a defensive gameplan against Barcelona in tomorrow night's final.
Soccer pundits also love games to ebb and flow. They too prefer open encounters. However, they are also quick to accept that certain tactics and styles of play sometimes mean this is just not possible.
And in such circumstances, they tend to call the game for what it is – a tactical battle.
When are Gaelic football fans going to receive the measured and realistic appraisal from their
analysts? (It is a sorry state of affairs when we are depending exclusively on Joe Brolly for clarity and insight).
Instead, our pundits keep echoing back to some mythical landscape when Gaelic football was fast and furious, everyone could kick-pass the ball 65 metres, and every game was a rip-roaring spectacle.
The tut-tutting about the nastiness of Sunday's game also beggars belief. Monaghan are a big, bruising team.
Two years ago, they bullied Derry out of Casement Park. Derry fans didn't complain about Monaghan, they merely felt saddened that their players didn't stand up and be counted.
The parameters for Sunday's game were laid down before the ball was thrown in. When Paddy Bradley jogged up the field to take his position, he received the now standard greeting from Dessie Mone. Paddy pointed to the
umpire. He asked the umpire to intervene. The umpire ignored him.
What was Paddy to do? Lodge a complaint to the European Court of Human Rights? In such cases, the law of the jungle prevails. When the written rules are not applied, the unwritten rules come into force.
Sunday's game was simply played by the unwritten rules of Gaelic football. There were sinners on both sides. Big deal.
As a fan and as a reporter, I have watched hundreds of such encounters. And unless the rules of the games change, we will continue to see more of the same.
So, let's not blame Derry. And let's not blame Monaghan. Moreover, let's not get too pious and
sanctimonious.
It is, after all, the Ulster Championship and this week Tyrone meet Armagh in Clones.
A derby clash between two arch-rivals. It will be hard and heavy.
What exactly will the thousands of viewers who tune in be hoping to see? A good sporting contest played in the friendly spirit of the recent League finals?
Now that would be a reason to complain.
From the Irish Indo
Derry captain Fergal Doherty is facing a spell on the sidelines after TV cameras caught him kicking out at Monaghan midfielder Dick Clerkin during Sunday's bad-tempered Ulster SFC quarter-final.
Doherty, who was sent off on a second yellow after 56 minutes, is clearly shown kicking the back of Clerkin's leg at one point during their fractious duel.
The Bellaghy man was suspended for four weeks after the CCCC reviewed an incident in last year's Ulster championship quarter-final involving Donegal's Rory Kavanagh, for which he hadn't been yellow-carded.
Also under the microscope will be his colleague, substitute Brian Mullan, who lifted his knee into Monaghan defender Conor McManus as the pair grappled on the ground in one of many incidents that tainted the game.
Monaghan players may not escape either when the tape is reviewed -- the CCCC are not due to meet until next week but may bring that forward to get the process moving quicker -- with Tommy Freeman sure to be asked to account for his actions in one particular first-half flashpoint in the Derry goalmouth.
If the CCCC were to rigidly apply the rules that govern contributions to a melee then many more players from both sides could be facing suspensions over the next four to eight weeks.
Monaghan have had no word from the Ulster Council about an apparent attempt by a Derry supporter to strike one of their players close to the perimeter of the pitch.
- Colm Keys
QuoteJesus wept but THAT is some load of nonsense. Do you really think folks would be on here praising Doherty as a 'real footballer' if he decked Clerkin with a left hook? No, he would proclaimed to be a complete thug. Catch yourself on.
Yes because it is much better to have a game of football broken up with constant handbags, sly cowardly digs, verbals and diving. I'm not looking for punch ups on a field but I'd rather see two lads give each other a clip and get on with the game than the girly type carry on that went on last Sunday and is too prevelant in our games. The idea now is to goad your man and then if he gives you a dig hit the ground like you were shot, that isn't manly or real physicality. I remember Mick Lyons who took no prisoners but when Colm O'Neill hit hit a smack in the jaw in the AI he simply scratch his chin, if it was done now we'd see the 'hard man' go down holding his face.
A thug is someone who hits a man from behind, which thankfully isn't as common as it once was, a thug isn't a man who goes toe to toe with another. We don't want to see that on our playing fields either but what went on last Sunday isn't manly or real physical football.
QuoteTheres some amount of 'Shock & Horror' and 'Please think of the Children' syndrome here
That's rubbish and that view is part of the problem, we all want physical football and there was some good physical football last Sunday but no other game in the world can so easily descend into a foul fest as football. We want to retain the physical aspect of the game but get rid of the kicking of ankles, the third man in, the diving, and cynicism. Anyone who can't see this isn't interested in the game of football.
EXCELLENT ARTICLE
Normally I think Paddy talks a bit of sense but not in that article, the mistake Paddy, and obviously a few around here, is making is the presumption that the game was simply physical, it wasn't, it was dirty and foul ridden, there is a difference.
QuoteWhat exactly will the thousands of viewers who tune in be hoping to see? A good sporting contest played in the friendly spirit of the recent League finals?
We expected a good hard game, what we got was a foulfest with players doing much outside the rules of the game to win and no sport should feel that that is acceptable.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 26, 2009, 12:14:08 PM
Its a forum and I'll comment on whatever I like- I don't have to ask you for permission. Dublin weren't playing last Sunday and that has nothing to do with the events last Sunday. Stop bringing extraneous arguments into the debate. If Dublin were involved in the same shite I'd say exactly the same.
Is discussing Dublin thuggery really much more of an extraneous argument than Ulster thuggery? If you want to piss on Ulsters parade you should expect someone to piss on yours
Quote from: Zulu on May 26, 2009, 12:33:52 PM
QuoteJesus wept but THAT is some load of nonsense. Do you really think folks would be on here praising Doherty as a 'real footballer' if he decked Clerkin with a left hook? No, he would proclaimed to be a complete thug. Catch yourself on.
Yes because it is much better to have a game of football broken up with constant handbags, sly cowardly digs, verbals and diving. I'm not looking for punch ups on a field but I'd rather see two lads give each other a clip and get on with the game than the girly type carry on that went on last Sunday and is too prevelant in our games. The idea now is to goad your man and then if he gives you a dig hit the ground like you were shot, that isn't manly or real physicality. I remember Mick Lyons who took no prisoners but when Colm O'Neill hit hit a smack in the jaw in the AI he simply scratch his chin, if it was done now we'd see the 'hard man' go down holding his face.
A thug is someone who hits a man from behind, which thankfully isn't as common as it once was, a thug isn't a man who goes toe to toe with another. We don't want to see that on our playing fields either but what went on last Sunday isn't manly or real physical football.
QuoteTheres some amount of 'Shock & Horror' and 'Please think of the Children' syndrome here
That's rubbish and that view is part of the problem, we all want physical football and there was some good physical football last Sunday but no other game in the world can so easily descend into a foul fest as football. We want to retain the physical aspect of the game but get rid of the kicking of ankles, the third man in, the diving, and cynicism. Anyone who can't see this isn't interested in the game of football.
Again romanticising punch-ups from yesteryear. Do you honestly think Doherty would be excused for decking Clerkin? He knows as well as anyone the repercussions of such a blatant act as displayed in your example where Paidi O'ses floored Dinny Allen (after Allen punched him with a back hand closed fist). An important aspect of that incident is that neither player got sent off though the referee is plainly in front of it and helped Allen to his feet. These days that is a lengthy suspension never mind a split second red. Also the presence of more cameras and media rehash is influential. With these two factors, Doc, no doubt thinking with the red mist descended, felt the pressure to get Dick on the sly (wrongly).
You can be sure that if punch ups went more unpunished as of old there would be more of your preferred retribution from those halcyon days.
Incidentally, folks like yourself should just a leaf out of Mick Lyons book and just get on with it, instead of rolling around the ground making a meal out of these incidents
Remind me again how Dublin won thier All Ireland in 1983
Didnt take long for the wagons to circle.
Irrespective of where Indiana is from the behaviour of Derry on sunday was unsavory to say the least. Even the staunchest of derry supporters could not excuse it. But then again its a case of turn a blind eye when its affecting yer own.
Nobody is turning ablind eye....just don't come on hear with a holy than holier mentality. Ye can all take the mote out of your own eye.
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on May 26, 2009, 12:25:38 PM
It's OK to play by the unwritten rules
Against the Breeze
By Paddy Heaney
26/05/2009
In 1987 Ballinderry and Newbridge 'played' two games in the Derry club championship. Both encounters are considered classics of that particular vintage.
Let me explain. There weren't that many at the drawn game, but it was an extremely brutal contest. There were punches aplenty. It was primal.
Word got around. The replay promised more of the same. It attracted thousands. It was played in Greenlough and they came from all over: from the Glens of Antrim, from all around the Loughshore, and from the deepest recesses of county Tyrone.
I was there too. Thank God. I'll never forget it. It was carnage. Hand-to-hand combat. Fights in every sector of the field.
Substitutes and spectators piling over the fences. Adult entertainment – and all for less than a fiver.
One memory has never left me. When the game eventually deteriorated into an all-out riot, a woman's voice could be heard piercing through the thin summer air. "You'ns are a disgrace, a disgrace," she squealed.
But she kept watching, transfixed like the rest of us. She never left. Her eyes stayed locked on the pitch. The paying punters got what they came to see, and in that case, probably a lot more.
I was thinking about that woman when I watched the TV pundits' reaction to Sunday's game in Celtic Park.
The outrage, the disgust, and the sniffy attitude towards the ugly scenes – what the hell did they
expect? What part of the last 125 years have they missed? What type of amnesia comes over
people once they enter a television studio?
Pat Spillane lifted the Sam Maguire Cup in 1975 when he was just 19-years-old. Pat lifted the Cup because the man who was supposed to perform the job, Mickey Ned O'Sullivan, was knocked unconscious during the game.
The four-game saga between Dublin and Meath in 1991 is widely eulogised. Colm O'Rourke was literally carried off the field in the fourth game after he was
pole-axed by Eamon Heery.
I once asked O'Rourke about Heery's tackle. He laughed it off, stating that if the roles were
reversed he would have done exactly the same thing.
Gaelic football has ever been thus. It's about winning, and it's about winning by whatever means necessary.
Pat Spillane said that he felt sorry for the supporters who paid into Celtic Park. Save your sympathy, Pat. The Derry fans walked out of Celtic Park glowing with satisfaction. Their team won. Money well spent.
Pat also lamented for the good old days when you could kick the ball up to your full-forwards. It's an understandable grievance, but his nostalgic yearning ignores the practical realities of the modern game.
Derry fans would also love it if their team could just kick the ball up to Paddy Bradley and then watch Paddy turn on the style. For the last two years they watched their team getting destroyed by trying to implement that very
tactic.
At most games, whenever a side passes the ball sideways or tries to run the ball through the
defence, some old duffer will eventually give the instruction to "get her in first day".
Yet it is a measure of how educated the modern-day fan is that I never heard one Derry man issue this command on Sunday. The experience of the previous two years has taught Derry that such a strategy against Monaghan is tantamount to football suicide.
It's a pity some of our TV analysts don't share the considered appreciation of the bog-standard supporter.
Sunday's game was always going to be a tactical and defensive battle. That's the way Monaghan play. They deploy a seventh defender. It works for them.
When Seamus McEnaney took over Monaghan, they were a mess. The previous year they finished nowhere in Division 2A and were obliterated by a vengeful Armagh in the 2004 Ulster Championship.
Under McEnaney, Monaghan have become tough and obdurate. He has taken them into Division One and they are regular visitors to Croke Park.
When Seamus played with a conventional defence in 2005, Paddy Bradley scored 1-8 and Derry kicked 1-17. Seamus learned his lesson.
And yet, Pat Spillane reckons that if Monaghan had been more positive they might have beaten Kerry. Nonsense.
If Monaghan played orthodox football against Kerry, 'the Gooch' would get a sore foot from kicking the ball over the bar.
Last year, Galway scored 1-16 against Kerry in a monsoon. The Kingdom scored 1-21. Kerry love playing Galway. They're not as fond of Monaghan.
Consider the contrast with soccer punditry. On
average, the current Barcelona team enjoys 65 per cent possession in every game it plays.
When Chelsea played two banks of four against them in the Champions League semi-final, there was no moaning from soccer analysts.
It was considered prudent, and a tacit recognition that it would be madness to leave a back four exposed to the terror of Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, and Eto'o.
The same will apply to Manchester United. No-one will condemn Alex Ferguson or deliver cries from the heart about the state of football if United employ a defensive gameplan against Barcelona in tomorrow night's final.
Soccer pundits also love games to ebb and flow. They too prefer open encounters. However, they are also quick to accept that certain tactics and styles of play sometimes mean this is just not possible.
And in such circumstances, they tend to call the game for what it is – a tactical battle.
When are Gaelic football fans going to receive the measured and realistic appraisal from their
analysts? (It is a sorry state of affairs when we are depending exclusively on Joe Brolly for clarity and insight).
Instead, our pundits keep echoing back to some mythical landscape when Gaelic football was fast and furious, everyone could kick-pass the ball 65 metres, and every game was a rip-roaring spectacle.
The tut-tutting about the nastiness of Sunday's game also beggars belief. Monaghan are a big, bruising team.
Two years ago, they bullied Derry out of Casement Park. Derry fans didn't complain about Monaghan, they merely felt saddened that their players didn't stand up and be counted.
The parameters for Sunday's game were laid down before the ball was thrown in. When Paddy Bradley jogged up the field to take his position, he received the now standard greeting from Dessie Mone. Paddy pointed to the
umpire. He asked the umpire to intervene. The umpire ignored him.
What was Paddy to do? Lodge a complaint to the European Court of Human Rights? In such cases, the law of the jungle prevails. When the written rules are not applied, the unwritten rules come into force.
Sunday's game was simply played by the unwritten rules of Gaelic football. There were sinners on both sides. Big deal.
As a fan and as a reporter, I have watched hundreds of such encounters. And unless the rules of the games change, we will continue to see more of the same.
So, let's not blame Derry. And let's not blame Monaghan. Moreover, let's not get too pious and
sanctimonious.
It is, after all, the Ulster Championship and this week Tyrone meet Armagh in Clones.
A derby clash between two arch-rivals. It will be hard and heavy.
What exactly will the thousands of viewers who tune in be hoping to see? A good sporting contest played in the friendly spirit of the recent League finals?
Now that would be a reason to complain.
have to say i agree with paddy on this one
Ok outside the wind ups... Did anyone actually enjoy the match.... I thought it was actually a half enjoyable affair, typical ulster football. Heaneys bang on with his article today. It will be interesting to compare what Pat Mc Eneany does this week with what Monaghan and Derry got away with last week.
Fergal is deservedly getting a lot of flack on here for the way he carried on on Sunday, few are talking about the way Dick Clerkin performed always in his ear, getting the sly slaps in as well and he kneed Fergal in the ribs at one stage as well. If Fergal is going to be tarred as dirty and all the rest Clerkin shouldn't be getting away with the way he carried on either. Also is Fergals wee tap to Dick Clerkins ankle i what people are calling a suspension for they need to catch themselves ion, especially as Rory 'always involved in what has nothing to do with me' Woods was at the same craic.
For a start Pat is a good ref...half the bloody battle
Quote from: rrhf on May 26, 2009, 01:24:23 PM
Ok outside the wind ups... Did anyone actually enjoy the match.... I thought it was actually a half enjoyable affair, typical ulster football. Heaneys bang on with his article today. It will be interesting to compare what Pat Mc Eneany does this week with what Monaghan and Derry got away with last week.
The first ten and the last ten minutes especially the latter were a joy to watch when Fergal got sent off Derry started to play football.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 01:25:52 PM
Fergal is deservedly getting a lot of flack on here for the way he carried on on Sunday, few are talking about the way Dick Clerkin performed always in his ear, getting the sly slaps in as well and he kneed Fergal in the ribs at one stage as well. If Fergal is going to be tarred as dirty and all the rest Clerkin shouldn't be getting away with the way he carried on either. Also is Fergals wee tap to Dick Clerkins ankle i what people are calling a suspension for they need to catch themselves ion, especially as Rory 'always involved in what has nothing to do with me' Woods was at the same craic.
What is 'Fergals' take on Sundays events?
Oakleafer, on this occassion Doherty was worse than Dick, why can't you accept that? Of course Dick's no angel by a long shot but he simply wound up Doherty and he took the bait several times!
Quote from: full back on May 26, 2009, 01:29:20 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 01:25:52 PM
Fergal is deservedly getting a lot of flack on here for the way he carried on on Sunday, few are talking about the way Dick Clerkin performed always in his ear, getting the sly slaps in as well and he kneed Fergal in the ribs at one stage as well. If Fergal is going to be tarred as dirty and all the rest Clerkin shouldn't be getting away with the way he carried on either. Also is Fergals wee tap to Dick Clerkins ankle i what people are calling a suspension for they need to catch themselves ion, especially as Rory 'always involved in what has nothing to do with me' Woods was at the same craic.
What is 'Fergals' take on Sundays events?
He was disappointed in himself for getting sent off actually.
Quote from: Schkite on May 26, 2009, 01:30:45 PM
Oakleafer, on this occassion Doherty was worse than Dick, why can't you accept that? Of course Dick's no angel by a long shot but he simply wound up Doherty and he took the bait several times!
Yes Fergal snapped I do admit that, but Dick played a major part in the incident, what about Dick's knee sunk into Fergals ribs.
Quote from: Bensars on May 26, 2009, 01:18:36 PM
Didnt take long for the wagons to circle.
Irrespective of where Indiana is from the behaviour of Derry on sunday was unsavory to say the least. Even the staunchest of derry supporters could not excuse it. But then again its a case of turn a blind eye when its affecting yer own.
Precisely and the 1983 win was never celebrated in the vogue of the 70's because of the incidents- the game was completely forgotten about. No-one ever talks about Dublin winning that game just the fact there were 4 sent off- thats a pretty argument Max.
It didn't take long for the wagons to circle here. There are some Northern posters here who believe that a different interpretation of the rules is acceptable because they think the game is more physical up there. there was no physicality last sunday, absolutely none. I've been to some great contests up there even down and tyrone last year was a brilliant game that I was at. Just look at good Tyrone are when they escape Ulster. even Armagh's best performances have all been in Croke Park.
Just cheap shots and rank cowardice was evident last sunday.
That type of thing is out of order, but it's hardly in Mullen territory. Even still, Doherty was more guilty on the day. He's an awful hot-head and will need to keep his temper in check if Derry are to challenge for honours this year. Dick has shown everyone else how easy Doherty is to wind up and you can bet other teams will try to take advantage.
You have just ignored 83, the famous fighting match in Omagh and your headbutting incident with Monaghan. Just how far is your head up your own ass when its comes to hyprocisy. Is it this far?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tphMnL4vxbs/SWO3Lce0THI/AAAAAAAABPE/gTyScl9jo6k/s400/head_up_arse.2.jpg)
Quote from: Schkite on May 26, 2009, 01:36:30 PM
That type of thing is out of order, but it's hardly in Mullen territory. Even still, Doherty was more guilty on the day. He's an awful hot-head and will need to keep his temper in check if Derry are to challenge for honours this year. Dick has shown everyone else how easy Doherty is to wind up and you can bet other teams will try to take advantage.
And your basis for this is what? Yes on Sunday he was out of order but you're making it sound like he does this every week when really this is an isolated occurence. How many times have you seen Doherty lose the head? I've played with and against Doherty since I was 12 and I can tell you off the top of my head I can only remember him getting the line for Derry once and for Bellaghy once. Hardly constituting a 'hot-head'. In normal circumstances Doc is an honest hard player but if you push someone constantly it is only a matter of time before they snap... no matter who they are!!! Yes he lost the run of himself on Sunday but it was nothing major only a wee kick to the calf muscle, hardly thuggery! If he does get a suspension I would be deeply concerned as to how the powers that be handle themselves.
Doherty is without doubt one of the best midfielders in the Country and I have no doubt that he will prove it again this year!
Quote from: screenexile on May 26, 2009, 01:46:30 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 26, 2009, 01:36:30 PM
That type of thing is out of order, but it's hardly in Mullen territory. Even still, Doherty was more guilty on the day. He's an awful hot-head and will need to keep his temper in check if Derry are to challenge for honours this year. Dick has shown everyone else how easy Doherty is to wind up and you can bet other teams will try to take advantage.
And your basis for this is what? Yes on Sunday he was out of order but you're making it sound like he does this every week when really this is an isolated occurence. How many times have you seen Doherty lose the head? I've played with and against Doherty since I was 12 and I can tell you off the top of my head I can only remember him getting the line for Derry once and for Bellaghy once. Hardly constituting a 'hot-head'. In normal circumstances Doc is an honest hard player but if you push someone constantly it is only a matter of time before they snap... no matter who they are!!! Yes he lost the run of himself on Sunday but it was nothing major only a wee kick to the calf muscle, hardly thuggery! If he does get a suspension I would be deeply concerned as to how the powers that be handle themselves.
Doherty is without doubt one of the best midfielders in the Country and I have no doubt that he will prove it again this year!
If Fergal is suspended over that tap on Clerkin's ankle its a sad state of affairs, as it was a minor incident compared to some of the crap that was on the field for boys like Woods, Freeman and Mullen. Re-watched the game last nigh Chrissy Mc Kaigue made an awful fool of himself near the end re Damien Freeman and by the rules he could be suspended for feigning injury to get a player sent off.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 26, 2009, 01:42:35 PM
You have just ignored 83, the famous fighting match in Omagh and your headbutting incident with Monaghan. Just how far is your head up your own ass when its comes to hyprocisy. Is it this far?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tphMnL4vxbs/SWO3Lce0THI/AAAAAAAABPE/gTyScl9jo6k/s400/head_up_arse.2.jpg)
I'm not going to respond to juveniles max. I've outlawed the 1983 game and the headbutt by our alleged video expert as being completely unacceptable. I'm not going to lower myself to your base level with juvenile and infantile images. I forgot the schools finished up last Friday. I'll let you continue in Never Never Land where common assault on a Gaa pitch is acceptable behaviour.
Does anyone know why Brian Mullen got a yellow? We all know he kneed Mc Manus in the balls but surely by the letter of the law this is a straight red? So what did the linesman actually see? Both men wrestled one another to the ground prior to the incident so if this was what the linesmen saw why did just Mullen get a yellow? Severe inconsistency in giving information to the ref- Mullen should have got a straight red, i don't think the linesman had a clue what he saw.
No I agree, Doherty is one of the best midfielders about alright, but wasn't at his best on Sunday as he got too caught up in the nonsense. I'm not saying he's generally a dirty player, and obviously you've seen him alot more than me, but it seems to be he got easily riled up. I know Dick can be a cnut to play against, but sure he went out to stop Doherty playing and he effectively did that. If any teams feel they can do the same they'll surely try. But at the same time I suppose Doherty won't be making the same mistake again.
It would be a travesty if Doherty gt suspended IMO. It was just a tiny flick, it was stupid and deserved a yellow but nothing more.
Great article by Heaney, summed up everything perfectly.
Indiana do what you want to, but take the mote out of your own eye first before you come on hear and point the finger at everyone else. Thats my point.Did Mickey Ned ever get to lift that cup. No body has argued that the game wasn't ugly in the worst sense, but seem to think you are on a crusade to the save the GAA from these games.
Quote from: Schkite on May 26, 2009, 01:36:30 PM
That type of thing is out of order, but it's hardly in Mullen territory. Even still, Doherty was more guilty on the day. He's an awful hot-head and will need to keep his temper in check if Derry are to challenge for honours this year. Dick has shown everyone else how easy Doherty is to wind up and you can bet other teams will try to take advantage.
Doherty has no track record of behaviour like Sunday. It was completely out of character as Screenexile said. The more obvious conclusion is that Dick has shown how effective he is at being a hateful hoor.
Indiana, saying there was 'no physicality' on Sunday, just 'rank cowardice' is plainly a gross exaggeration. You are only seeing what you want to see. At least the Derry posters on here have criticised Mullen and Doc (and rightly so, though judging by your last line to Max you are only listening to what you want to hear).
And this 'circling the wagons' business, sure if you come on to a Derry - Monaghan thread to criticise and register disgust with our players and identify it as an Ulster wide problem, it must surely be understandable if folks look at your own county ??? Apparently not.
QuoteYou can be sure that if punch ups went more unpunished as of old there would be more of your preferred retribution from those halcyon days.
Incidentally, folks like yourself should just a leaf out of Mick Lyons book and just get on with it, instead of rolling around the ground making a meal out of these incidents
Clearly I'm not making myself clear, I don't think that punch ups are acceptable on a football field but I'd rather see 2 lads go toe to toe and then get on with the football than what we got last Sunday which was neither manly or legal, only cowardly and niggly. So to make clear I don't want to see either, I want to see good hard football, if I want to see a punch up I'll go to a boxing match and if I want to see a repeat of last Sunday I'll go to the WWF.
As for your comment about Mick Lyons, it's all too typical of some around here, - 'move along, nothing to see here folks'. I don't care who won last Sunday and I don't really care who wins the AI, because ultimately that is only the short term, 'small' picture. I'm more interested in the growth, development and promotion of the game and it's only when fellas start looking at the bigger picture that the game can become all it's capable of becoming. I'm not having a go at the players because we have seen this stuff before and in fact, I've done much of it myself, so I'm not coming at this from the high moral ground, I simply want the GAA to address it because it isn't good for the game. And the fellas who are trying to deflect the flak by pointing to the antics of other counties are all that is wrong with this issue. Monaghan and Derry haven't dragged football to a new low, we've all been down there on occasion but the point is we get away with it so we'll continue to sink that low every now and again. And as far as I can see we are the only sport in the world which allows players to get away with it.
ice hockey
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 02:05:29 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 26, 2009, 01:36:30 PM
That type of thing is out of order, but it's hardly in Mullen territory. Even still, Doherty was more guilty on the day. He's an awful hot-head and will need to keep his temper in check if Derry are to challenge for honours this year. Dick has shown everyone else how easy Doherty is to wind up and you can bet other teams will try to take advantage.
Doherty has no track record of behaviour like Sunday. It was completely out of character as Screenexile said. The more obvious conclusion is that Dick has shown how effective he is at being a hateful hoor.
Fair enough, I hope he doesn't do the same again as I don't like seeing good players like that getting more involved in the off-the-ball stuff. Dick can be a hateful hoor alright but he's never riled someone up as much as he has Doherty the last two years. Not saying Doherty will do the same again but maybe Dick just brings the worst out in him!
Does anyone have a youtube link or any link to Tommy Freeman head-butting mc Guckin? Or what time it is at on the match (I have it taped.)
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:17:06 PM
Does anyone have a youtube link or any link to Tommy Freeman head-butting mc Guckin? Or what time it is at on the match (I have it taped.)
Fecksake let it go. :-[
This tit for tat shit could go on all day
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:17:06 PM
Does anyone have a youtube link or any link to Tommy Freeman head-butting mc Guckin? Or what time it is at on the match (I have it taped.)
Fecksake let it go. :-[
This tit for tat shit could go on all day
Christ I just want a look at it
Somebody gag her
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:17:06 PM
Does anyone have a youtube link or any link to Tommy Freeman head-butting mc Guckin? Or what time it is at on the match (I have it taped.)
Fecksake let it go. :-[
This tit for tat shit could go on all day
Christ I just want a look at it
Why though??
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 02:21:12 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:17:06 PM
Does anyone have a youtube link or any link to Tommy Freeman head-butting mc Guckin? Or what time it is at on the match (I have it taped.)
Fecksake let it go. :-[
This tit for tat shit could go on all day
Christ I just want a look at it
Why though??
Does it matter?
You know what just forget about it I asked a straight forward question and you could answer it or ignore it, no call for the bullshit.
watch it on iplayer, if you reallly want to see it
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 26, 2009, 02:14:17 PM
ice hockey
They leave two lads punch it out and that is accepted as part of the game, what goes on in our games isn't accepted. For example if all through a hockey game you talked shit to your opponent and gave him sly digs all game and he then dropped the gloves and hit you a harmless slap but you went down you'd be laughed off the ice rink and derided by all and sundry. Not in our game though, some seem to think that is acceptable in the search for a win.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:17:06 PM
Does anyone have a youtube link or any link to Tommy Freeman head-butting mc Guckin? Or what time it is at on the match (I have it taped.)
Fecksake let it go. :-[
This tit for tat shit could go on all day
Christ I just want a look at it
it was nothing, i wouldn't bother wasting my time if i were you.
Quote from: screenexile on May 26, 2009, 01:46:30 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 26, 2009, 01:36:30 PM
That type of thing is out of order, but it's hardly in Mullen territory. Even still, Doherty was more guilty on the day. He's an awful hot-head and will need to keep his temper in check if Derry are to challenge for honours this year. Dick has shown everyone else how easy Doherty is to wind up and you can bet other teams will try to take advantage.
And your basis for this is what? Yes on Sunday he was out of order but you're making it sound like he does this every week when really this is an isolated occurence. How many times have you seen Doherty lose the head? I've played with and against Doherty since I was 12 and I can tell you off the top of my head I can only remember him getting the line for Derry once and for Bellaghy once. Hardly constituting a 'hot-head'. In normal circumstances Doc is an honest hard player but if you push someone constantly it is only a matter of time before they snap... no matter who they are!!! Yes he lost the run of himself on Sunday but it was nothing major only a wee kick to the calf muscle, hardly thuggery! If he does get a suspension I would be deeply concerned as to how the powers that be handle themselves.
Doherty is without doubt one of the best midfielders in the Country and I have no doubt that he will prove it again this year!
I agree he is anything but a hot head.
I think you'd agree though screen that despite this he has been caught now for the second time and he would need to be careful
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:22:14 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 02:21:12 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 26, 2009, 02:17:06 PM
Does anyone have a youtube link or any link to Tommy Freeman head-butting mc Guckin? Or what time it is at on the match (I have it taped.)
Fecksake let it go. :-[
This tit for tat shit could go on all day
Christ I just want a look at it
Why though??
Does it matter?
You know what just forget about it I asked a straight forward question and you could answer it or ignore it, no call for the bullshit.
Don't get stroppy, its not as if i accused you of petty vindictiveness and point scoring over tit for tat incidents
Whoops ;D
LOL at some people implying Doherty is a loose cannon - Anyone who has consistently watch him perform for Derry and Bellaghy over the years knows that is complete drivel.
He won't and shouldn't get a suspension for what happened on Sunday, Mullan on the otherhand may very well (and deservedly imo) be in trouble as may McKaigue for that dive.
I really do detest this aspect of GAA punditry we have today and the general public seem to be feeding off it.
Nothing really happened on Sunday. It was niggly, but in every sport (as in life) the ingredients are there for a bit of bad temper now and again. Much much worse went on in the 80s/90s away from the cameras. Shudder when you think of the Ulster winning Monaghan team of 85/88, the Tyrone defence at that period, the Meath side of the 80s/90s, the Dubs of the 70s/80s.
That doesn't mean what they may have done now and again was to be condoned but Jaysus on Sunday there was the odd nip and slap here and there. No one was carried off. No one couldn't continue. No blood. It was simply a wee bit of temper. I thought it was great.
Twas a bit of a joke seeing O'Rourke, Elbows Tohill and Kernan lamenting the nature of the 'violence'. No doubt, they were toeing the line, making sure they were invited back onto the show.
As a dub lad said to be yesterday at lunch, why does all this off the ball stuff only happen when Ulster teams play each other but when they play other counties they seem to relax the head and try to play reasonably fair open football.
Whether or not we like it I believe it tends to happen when one time considers itself inferior to the other and so unfair tactics are used to soften up the opposition to stop them from playing their usual game. This is especially true if a team has a talented forward or two and more often than not thr transgressor gets away with most of the early stuff before the forward reacts and then both get booked or sent off.
Remember yer man Walsh allegedly biting Sean Cavanagh. Remember Kieran McKeever & a Kerry defender trying to get a reaction from Canavan.
Most times refs let these incidents go & eventually the player being wronged eventually loses the head and reacts which is what they are hoping happens.
Good old Ricey & Conor Gormley often try to intimidate forwards like poor Oisin McConville etc to get a rise and remember Joey McMahon against Tommy Walshe last year in the final.
This crack has been happening for years but some teams take it to the extreme but as Heaney and a few others have said what do you do?
Do you wait for the ref & linesmen to defend you.
If Paddy Bradley had of lay down after the rabbit punch before the game started, loads of ye would cry Ach Get up he hardly touched ye. Its a man's game. Bullshit.
So instead he's expected to take it on the chin and not retaliate.
In Ulster especially there seems to be a rule that ye 1st have to earn the right to play football the way ye want to and every since more and more teams are using the blanket defence or 7th defender then it has made games much less fluid and less likely to see long kick passes being used as the "Sweeper" just intercepts and break down the field.
As Brolly & O'Rourke agreed on Sunday, the game has evolved into a much more tactical battle nowadays but I'm afraid I still lay a lot of the blame at the door of the Refs and their panel of umpires & linesmen. If they all evolved as well as the players have then a lot more incidents would be dealt with immediately. If Corner backs knew that umpires would be listened to and could get them sent off, would they be so keen to do off the ball stuff?
all this hypocritical crap about the match being a disgrace and not fit for kids to watch is really winding me up,are you telling me the down team of the 60's,dublin,meath and kerry in the 70/80's were football purists and would not sink to such a level well let me tell you they did when they had to and was part of what made them great teams,now i am not saying what happened on sunday was pretty but derry had to stand up to monaghan and thats what they did and i would be very confident in saying derrys approach will be different for there next match.i remember when tyrone were kicked out of croke park in 96 by meath and all the freestate media said "it's part of the game"well how the preachers have changed.
I'm not on any crusade Max. But when the likes of Kernan and Tohill said it was out of order-it must have been bad because they've never criticised Ulster Football before. I don't agree O Neill- we had 2 of the top8 teams in the country who didn't want to play football last Sunday. Its a sad state of affairs.
It was the amount of incidents and the nature of them that was the problem. Rarely would you find a match with that many incidents over 70mins. We're not doing anything to promote the game by saying nothing about it. And in my view the lads on the Sunday game were dead right- by criticising it.
We're 3 weeks into the championship and we've haven't had a decent game yet. Crowds are poor and people are wondering why.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 26, 2009, 02:53:05 PM
Remember Kieran McKeever & a Kerry defender trying to get a reaction from Canavan.
How many teams played that match? ;)
Derry are best when they are trying to play football as they have the quality players especially in attack to hurt most teams in the country.
At the weekend Derry management knew that playing footballng wasn't going to be enough to get past Monaghan, they were never going to be allowed to play.
Some of the stuff wasn't pleasing on the eye but all this 'expert' punditry is completely OTT, anyone who didn't think this was going to be a hard niggling game is completely out of touch with A) Ulster Championship football B)Monaghan's tactics and C) The way Cassidy would won't his players to respond
Quote from: INDIANA on May 26, 2009, 02:56:29 PM
I'm not on any crusade Max. But when the likes of Kernan and Tohill said it was out of order-it must have been bad because they've never criticised Ulster Football before. I don't agree O Neill- we had 2 of the top8 teams in the country who didn't want to play football last Sunday. Its a sad state of affairs.
It was the amount of incidents and the nature of them that was the problem. Rarely would you find a match with that many incidents over 70mins. We're not doing anything to promote the game by saying nothing about it. And in my view the lads on the Sunday game were dead right- by criticising it.
We're 3 weeks into the championship and we've haven't had a decent game yet. Crowds are poor and people are wondering why.
For a start the crowds were always going to be 'poor' for a wide variety of reasons.
Derry have tried in the past to play pure football against Monaghan and it hasn't worked so it's a case of horses for courses and in the end as a supporter of Derry a win is the end all and be all, I don't care if it wasn't pleasing on the eye for the neutral supporter.
One things is for sure, Derry have the capabilities and usually do go out and play football, a first round tie against Monaghan was not the time nor place for it though.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 26, 2009, 02:56:29 PM
I'm not on any crusade Max. But when the likes of Kernan and Tohill said it was out of order-it must have been bad because they've never criticised Ulster Football before. I don't agree O Neill- we had 2 of the top8 teams in the country who didn't want to play football last Sunday. Its a sad state of affairs.
It was the amount of incidents and the nature of them that was the problem. Rarely would you find a match with that many incidents over 70mins. We're not doing anything to promote the game by saying nothing about it. And in my view the lads on the Sunday game were dead right- by criticising it.
We're 3 weeks into the championship and we've haven't had a decent game yet. Crowds are poor and people are wondering why.
Exactly, the 'sure nobody was hurt' defence is nonsense as is the 'it was far worse in the 80's' type of stuff. We want tough hard football, not simply tough hard grappling matches. The real issue is should teams be able to go out and forget about football and instead intimidate their opponents into submission, IMO they shouldn't. The winner of a football match should be the team that played the best, hardest, most inventive football not the one who was willing to sink to the lowest level. This debate isn't about Derry and Monaghan or Ulster football, it's about football as a game and what type of game we want going into the future. This week we have the champions league final and Cork V Tipp in the Munster hurling championship, now both games could turn out to be rubbish but they almost definitely won't turn into niggly, foul ridden, stop start contests with little to do with the sport they are playing. Why do some seem to think football should be different?
Quote from: Zulu on May 26, 2009, 03:12:52 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 26, 2009, 02:56:29 PM
I'm not on any crusade Max. But when the likes of Kernan and Tohill said it was out of order-it must have been bad because they've never criticised Ulster Football before. I don't agree O Neill- we had 2 of the top8 teams in the country who didn't want to play football last Sunday. Its a sad state of affairs.
It was the amount of incidents and the nature of them that was the problem. Rarely would you find a match with that many incidents over 70mins. We're not doing anything to promote the game by saying nothing about it. And in my view the lads on the Sunday game were dead right- by criticising it.
We're 3 weeks into the championship and we've haven't had a decent game yet. Crowds are poor and people are wondering why.
Exactly, the 'sure nobody was hurt' defence is nonsense as is the 'it was far worse in the 80's' type of stuff. We want tough hard football, not simply tough hard grappling matches. The real issue is should teams be able to go out and forget about football and instead intimidate their opponents into submission, IMO they shouldn't. The winner of a football match should be the team that played the best, hardest, most inventive football not the one who was willing to sink to the lowest level. This debate isn't about Derry and Monaghan or Ulster football, it's about football as a game and what type of game we want going into the future. This week we have the champions league final and Cork V Tipp in the Munster hurling championship, now both games could turn out to be rubbish but they almost definitely won't turn into niggly, foul ridden, stop start contests with little to do with the sport they are playing. Why do some seem to think football should be different?
So its not Ok to talk about football from the 80's but its alright to compare with two totally different sports in the form of the Munster hurling final and the Champions league final. Catch yourself on.
What, is that a point or just some random statement? Comparing football today with that of the 80's or any other generation is pointless, especially if you're doing so to justify the worst aspects of our game. It's like a soccer fan defending a mini riot at a game on the basis that it was much worse in the 80's, i.e. pointless and irrelevant. I was comparing the fact that you don't worry that other codes will descend into foul ridden, stop start contests, whereas football can do so on a reasonably regular basis. And any fan of the game should find that unacceptable.
McEnaney's opinion on Brolly et al hits the nail on the head:
"There's pundits out there paid to do a job and I have no problem with Joe Brolly being paid for his opinion, or the likes of him making money on the back of us."
Would he prefer if the game wasn't shown, would he prefer if the actions of the team he prepared wasn't commented on simply because he doesn't like what he hears? As usual there is an attitude, underlined by a few on here, that we aren't to blame it is those giving out who are the problem. It's long since past time for people in the GAA to start looking at the bigger picture and taking responsibility for where they are taking the game.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 26, 2009, 04:11:03 PM
McEnaney's opinion on Brolly et al hits the nail on the head:
"There's pundits out there paid to do a job and I have no problem with Joe Brolly being paid for his opinion, or the likes of him making money on the back of us."
Was this a dig, a direct insult or a manager answering an honest question ? Why did he pick Brolly ?? Was it because of his premature "I'm delighted Monaghan are out of the championship" remark ?
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 26, 2009, 04:11:03 PM
McEnaney's opinion on Brolly et al hits the nail on the head:
"There's pundits out there paid to do a job and I have no problem with Joe Brolly being paid for his opinion, or the likes of him making money on the back of us."
A lot of irony in that statement.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 26, 2009, 04:11:03 PM
McEnaney's opinion on Brolly et al hits the nail on the head:
"There's pundits out there paid to do a job and I have no problem with Joe Brolly being paid for his opinion, or the likes of him making money on the back of us."
I watched the game on Sunday and the RTE analysis afterwards. As far as I'm aware Brolly is getting paid to analyse the games he's watching. On Sunday he gave the opinions of Derry suporter not those of a supposedly objective analyst. If people wanted those views they could ask any fan who watched the match.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 26, 2009, 04:23:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 26, 2009, 04:11:03 PM
McEnaney's opinion on Brolly et al hits the nail on the head:
"There's pundits out there paid to do a job and I have no problem with Joe Brolly being paid for his opinion, or the likes of him making money on the back of us."
A lot of irony in that statement.
If what you are saying is that Banty is also making money on "us", you would be totally wrong. He will spend alot of money on the team and others in the set up will get paid but Banty is the one man who wouldn't be taking a penny.
Quote from: GBXII on May 26, 2009, 04:30:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 26, 2009, 04:11:03 PM
McEnaney's opinion on Brolly et al hits the nail on the head:
"There's pundits out there paid to do a job and I have no problem with Joe Brolly being paid for his opinion, or the likes of him making money on the back of us."
I watched the game on Sunday and the RTE analysis afterwards. As far as I'm aware Brolly is getting paid to analyse the games he's watching. On Sunday he gave the opinions of Derry suporter not those of a supposedly objective analyst. If people wanted those views they could ask any fan who watched the match.
Correct,
we could have asked sideline kick & he would have told you for next to nothing ;)
Quote from: Zulu on May 26, 2009, 04:02:07 PM
What, is that a point or just some random statement? Comparing football today with that of the 80's or any other generation is pointless, especially if you're doing so to justify the worst aspects of our game. It's like a soccer fan defending a mini riot at a game on the basis that it was much worse in the 80's, i.e. pointless and irrelevant. I was comparing the fact that you don't worry that other codes will descend into foul ridden, stop start contests, whereas football can do so on a reasonably regular basis. And any fan of the game should find that unacceptable.
Comparisons with hurling are unfair. The dynamics are completely different. A game where a ball can be driven accurately 80,90,100 yards in an instant nullifies blanket defences, fouling deep out the field to slow down play, etc. Regarding the 'manliness' of the game, there are plenty of sly, underhand stuff at times (butts of hurls jabbed into ribs, groins, etc), but with the speed of the game there is no time to dwell on them. The pace renders it a much less tactical game. Now, soccer is a very sanitised 'physical' sport, it also produces a high number of boring, boring games and it is ridden by diving and cheating.
I'll be honest and echo a few earlier posters. I enjoyed the game on Sunday, it was physical, it was intense, there was honesty of effort in buckets from Sean Leo, Gerard O'Kane, etc. There were good periods of play and yes there were some nasty moments. But over 70 minutes these nasty moments would have added up to less than 5 minutes of viewing.
When I arrived back from the game and got talking to lads from other counties who watched the game on telly, i was struck by how nasty they felt the game had been. I knew it had been played in a bad spirit at times, but overall there had been no bad injuries, no all in brawls, even when 5/6 players were involved in handbags at one point, there was no striking of any kind. After seeing this thread swell to over 60 pages of righteous indignation, its becoming more clear to me that the way the game has been cast in an exaggerated light by elements of the TV coverage, e.g. cameras catching every single incident and replaying them, half time and full time continual replaying of incidents, Spillane, etc, giving out. The focus of the Sunday Game was very incident orientated. A couple of them HAD to be highlighted, but at the end of the day they didnt have to dominate to THAT extent. Subsequently, this game has been subject to hyperbole, from the media down.
Now it was not a pretty game and certainly not one for the purists. My enjoyment of the game, and I think for most Derry spectators, stemmed from the way Derry won. Most expected a tough, gruelling, negative game that could not and would not have been won clean and easy. A lot of folks on here who have laudable standards for the nature in which the game is played also need to face the reality that the game could not and would not have gone any other way. This does not excuse specific incidents but explains the general flow of the match. Nonetheless there were quality moments in this game, Kielts points and the team move leading to Divers point from a Derry perspective, for example. It is a shame these have warranted little to no mention.
One slightly nasty game does not constitute a crisis in standards.
QuoteA lot of folks on here who have laudable standards for the nature in which the game is played also need to face the reality that the game could not and would not have gone any other way.
See this is where I have the problem, I agree that there were some fine passages of play and some great scores, in fact I thought the first half wasn't bad. I've seen loads of poor hurling games, I hardly watch soccer at all as I don't enjoy it as a spectator sport but the point I was making is that those sports or rugby, Aussie rules, American football, rugby league etc. rarely descend into foul ridden spectacles, why should we accept football doing so? Why should we accept off the ball kicking, pushing and shoving, verbals, third man in and worst of all feigning injury as normal? You said it was never going to be different and that is clear evidence of the problem we have, rather than a good hard hitting game, we got a good hard hitting game on occasion but too often it was broken up by petty fouls and nonsense. If these teams came together later in the year we should be able to expect all that is good in football played out by some of the best footballers in Ireland, not a repeat of what we had last Sunday. The problem is with the rules, moreso than the players because players will always push the boundaries, we just need to set new ones.
Derry lads may not realize this,or care, but last Sunday did nothing for football as a game and for people like me who are trying to promote the game that is a problem.
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 04:57:56 PM
Comparisons with hurling are unfair. The dynamics are completely different. A game where a ball can be driven accurately 80,90,100 yards in an instant nullifies blanket defences, fouling deep out the field to slow down play, etc. Regarding the 'manliness' of the game, there are plenty of sly, underhand stuff at times (butts of hurls jabbed into ribs, groins, etc), but with the speed of the game there is no time to dwell on them. The pace renders it a much less tactical game. Now, soccer is a very sanitised 'physical' sport, it also produces a high number of boring, boring games and it is ridden by diving and cheating.
I'll be honest and echo a few earlier posters. I enjoyed the game on Sunday, it was physical, it was intense, there was honesty of effort in buckets from Sean Leo, Gerard O'Kane, etc. There were good periods of play and yes there were some nasty moments. But over 70 minutes these nasty moments would have added up to less than 5 minutes of viewing.
When I arrived back from the game and got talking to lads from other counties who watched the game on telly, i was struck by how nasty they felt the game had been. I knew it had been played in a bad spirit at times, but overall there had been no bad injuries, no all in brawls, even when 5/6 players were involved in handbags at one point, there was no striking of any kind. After seeing this thread swell to over 60 pages of righteous indignation, its becoming more clear to me that the way the game has been cast in an exaggerated light by elements of the TV coverage, e.g. cameras catching every single incident and replaying them, half time and full time continual replaying of incidents, Spillane, etc, giving out. The focus of the Sunday Game was very incident orientated. A couple of them HAD to be highlighted, but at the end of the day they didnt have to dominate to THAT extent. Subsequently, this game has been subject to hyperbole, from the media down.
Now it was not a pretty game and certainly not one for the purists. My enjoyment of the game, and I think for most Derry spectators, stemmed from the way Derry won. Most expected a tough, gruelling, negative game that could not and would not have been won clean and easy. A lot of folks on here who have laudable standards for the nature in which the game is played also need to face the reality that the game could not and would not have gone any other way. This does not excuse specific incidents but explains the general flow of the match. Nonetheless there were quality moments in this game, Kielts points and the team move leading to Divers point from a Derry perspective, for example. It is a shame these have warranted little to no mention.
One slightly nasty game does not constitute a crisis in standards.
Like most folk here I've been watching and playing gaelic football most of my life.
I don't need an analyst to tell me a lad has been kicked off the ball or kneed in the b*lls when he's lying on the ground.
I'd also like to propose that the words "intense" & "intensity" be banned from discussions about Ulster football. :P
Quote from: Zulu on May 26, 2009, 04:19:04 PM
Would he prefer if the game wasn't shown, would he prefer if the actions of the team he prepared wasn't commented on simply because he doesn't like what he hears? As usual there is an attitude, underlined by a few on here, that we aren't to blame it is those giving out who are the problem. It's long since past time for people in the GAA to start looking at the bigger picture and taking responsibility for where they are taking the game.
I don't think that's the case at all. It's just highlighting that Brolly and other pundits are paid to entertain and be controversial. It's not about trying to cover up what happened at all, or blame the pundits.
And McEnaney's comments were made in relation to Brolly being 'delighted' that Monaghan were out of the Ulster Championship - he wasn't trying to apportion 'blame' to anyone else.
Anyway, here's a link to the story if you're interested:
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=112034
Quote from: orangeman on May 25, 2009, 11:39:09 PM
So how likely is it that Monaghan and Derry players will get sanctions from the CCCC investigation into the match ???????
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no chance of a suspension and 10 being certain of getting a suspension, how would you rate these lads and the alleged offences ?
Fergal Doherty - gouging 1/10
Fergal Doherty - kicking 8/10
Tommy Freeman headbutt 8/10
Richard Clerkin knee - 4/10
Brian Mullan - knee - 12/10
Anyone else ??
I think you deserve a ban OM, Richard Clerkin??
Are you his mother?
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 26, 2009, 01:11:14 PM
Remind me again how Dublin won thier All Ireland in 1983
Ah fer fecksake, we're talking about a game on Sunday, in 2009. No need to get into whataboutery from the year of Kajagoogoo.
Heard a true story this week that Clerkin's da called him Dick so that his name couldn't be shortened.
Are there any youtube clips of the incidents from the game?
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 26, 2009, 06:55:46 PM
Are there any youtube clips of the incidents from the game?
Towards the end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pe0rNieL-Q
Are some people seriously trying to say Riceys was the same as Mullens?? Come on to f**k now... There was serious intent on Mullen's part...
Thought the match was decent enough myself and the niggles etc livened it up...
Couple fellas I know from Derry text me even after the match that Kielt should not have been on, bit unfair if ya ask me?? He won them the match arguably with his points. Very important.
Also did anyone else see the Sunday Game putting up the wrong pictures for their three nominees for man of the match on Sunday night?? How hard can it be to put the right player pics up?? Jesus Christ
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on May 26, 2009, 07:23:03 PM
Also did anyone else see the Sunday Game putting up the wrong pictures for their three nominees for man of the match on Sunday night?? How hard can it be to put the right player pics up?? Jesus Christ
Yep, and not for the first time either.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 26, 2009, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on May 26, 2009, 12:25:38 PM
It's OK to play by the unwritten rules
Against the Breeze
By Paddy Heaney
26/05/2009
The tut-tutting about the nastiness of Sunday's game also beggars belief. Monaghan are a big, bruising team.
have to say i agree with paddy on this one
It's amazing how the stature of our pint sized warriors grows by the meter.
But I suppose how else could a heavyweight justify getting knocked around the ring by a featherweight.
The invitation goes out now to other teams in the qualifiers - 'hands up anyone for Clones' ;D
Quote from: Armamike on May 26, 2009, 06:40:03 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 26, 2009, 01:11:14 PM
Remind me again how Dublin won thier All Ireland in 1983
Ah fer fecksake, we're talking about a game on Sunday, in 2009. No need to get into whataboutery from the year of Kajagoogoo.
Whataboutery and arseboxing will get us nowhere!
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 26, 2009, 06:36:03 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 25, 2009, 11:39:09 PM
So how likely is it that Monaghan and Derry players will get sanctions from the CCCC investigation into the match ???????
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no chance of a suspension and 10 being certain of getting a suspension, how would you rate these lads and the alleged offences ?
Fergal Doherty - gouging 1/10
Fergal Doherty - kicking 8/10
Tommy Freeman headbutt 8/10
Richard Clerkin knee - 4/10
Brian Mullan - knee - 12/10
Anyone else ??
I think you deserve a ban OM, Richard Clerkin??
Are you his mother?
Richard Clerkin sounds better than DICK Clerkin.
Quote from: Zulu on May 26, 2009, 05:12:55 PM
QuoteA lot of folks on here who have laudable standards for the nature in which the game is played also need to face the reality that the game could not and would not have gone any other way.
See this is where I have the problem, I agree that there were some fine passages of play and some great scores, in fact I thought the first half wasn't bad. I've seen loads of poor hurling games, I hardly watch soccer at all as I don't enjoy it as a spectator sport but the point I was making is that those sports or rugby, Aussie rules, American football, rugby league etc. rarely descend into foul ridden spectacles, why should we accept football doing so? Why should we accept off the ball kicking, pushing and shoving, verbals, third man in and worst of all feigning injury as normal? You said it was never going to be different and that is clear evidence of the problem we have, rather than a good hard hitting game, we got a good hard hitting game on occasion but too often it was broken up by petty fouls and nonsense. If these teams came together later in the year we should be able to expect all that is good in football played out by some of the best footballers in Ireland, not a repeat of what we had last Sunday. The problem is with the rules, moreso than the players because players will always push the boundaries, we just need to set new ones.
Derry lads may not realize this,or care, but last Sunday did nothing for football as a game and for people like me who are trying to promote the game that is a problem.
I think it is arguable that other sports you mention can be just as negative and that if they arent, then there is a trade off that makes them just as stop-start as a foul ridden game gaelic, if not more so (with marks, time outs, etc). Fair enough, you may be specifically referring to the high volume of petty negativity in certain gaelic games but I don't think its fair to widen the argument to hold up these sports as paragons of virtue by cherry picking out their positive aspects. You have to acknowledge the trade-offs these sports make that guarantee less fouls. And they are significant trade-offs that make them inferior games, IMO.
Regarding people like you who promote the game, im sorry it was a negative game that made your job harder, but FFS take up your grievances after a run of such games and dont press the panic button just yet. Derry have not been involved in as cynical a game since Tyrone 06' (league or championship), so dont hang us out to dry until we make a habit of such games. Also it is long since established how much displeasure folks have with this game, could we not hear some constructive ideas rather than the Spillane style wailing and gnashing of teeth?
Quote from: Jinxy on May 26, 2009, 05:18:14 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 26, 2009, 04:57:56 PM
Comparisons with hurling are unfair. The dynamics are completely different. A game where a ball can be driven accurately 80,90,100 yards in an instant nullifies blanket defences, fouling deep out the field to slow down play, etc. Regarding the 'manliness' of the game, there are plenty of sly, underhand stuff at times (butts of hurls jabbed into ribs, groins, etc), but with the speed of the game there is no time to dwell on them. The pace renders it a much less tactical game. Now, soccer is a very sanitised 'physical' sport, it also produces a high number of boring, boring games and it is ridden by diving and cheating.
I'll be honest and echo a few earlier posters. I enjoyed the game on Sunday, it was physical, it was intense, there was honesty of effort in buckets from Sean Leo, Gerard O'Kane, etc. There were good periods of play and yes there were some nasty moments. But over 70 minutes these nasty moments would have added up to less than 5 minutes of viewing.
When I arrived back from the game and got talking to lads from other counties who watched the game on telly, i was struck by how nasty they felt the game had been. I knew it had been played in a bad spirit at times, but overall there had been no bad injuries, no all in brawls, even when 5/6 players were involved in handbags at one point, there was no striking of any kind. After seeing this thread swell to over 60 pages of righteous indignation, its becoming more clear to me that the way the game has been cast in an exaggerated light by elements of the TV coverage, e.g. cameras catching every single incident and replaying them, half time and full time continual replaying of incidents, Spillane, etc, giving out. The focus of the Sunday Game was very incident orientated. A couple of them HAD to be highlighted, but at the end of the day they didnt have to dominate to THAT extent. Subsequently, this game has been subject to hyperbole, from the media down.
Now it was not a pretty game and certainly not one for the purists. My enjoyment of the game, and I think for most Derry spectators, stemmed from the way Derry won. Most expected a tough, gruelling, negative game that could not and would not have been won clean and easy. A lot of folks on here who have laudable standards for the nature in which the game is played also need to face the reality that the game could not and would not have gone any other way. This does not excuse specific incidents but explains the general flow of the match. Nonetheless there were quality moments in this game, Kielts points and the team move leading to Divers point from a Derry perspective, for example. It is a shame these have warranted little to no mention.
One slightly nasty game does not constitute a crisis in standards.
Like most folk here I've been watching and playing gaelic football most of my life.
I don't need an analyst to tell me a lad has been kicked off the ball or kneed in the b*lls when he's lying on the ground.
I'd also like to propose that the words "intense" & "intensity" be banned from discussions about Ulster football. :P
I wouldnt never dream of saying that folks watching on TV couldnt judge for themselves, but the fact remains that each 'nasty' incident from the game was highlighted and analysed and discussed from various angles, several times and at length. Good aspects were ignored. Now knees to balls and such like need to flagged up, but by going on and on about handbag incidents or mouthing any positives were lost and the game was portrayed as some kind of horrific running battle when it was nowhere near that league. For the sake of promoting the game I'd rather they flagged the serious incidents and then at least used half of the time to pick out the good aspects. Instead, we had a showreel of minor incidents that warranted no sanctions and served only to reinforce bad feeling towards the game, the teams, Ulster football, etc. The positive virtues were tacked on at the end like a reluctant afterthought.
I see alot have missed the fact that after Sunday's match, Paddy Bradley is now the 2nd highest points scorer in the Ulster Championship. Now on a total of 14-176 (222) he is 4 clear of Peter Canavan and only 8 behind Oisin McConville. It's inevitable that he will catch Oisin with 1 or possibly 2 matches to come in this Ulster Championship and also a few more seasons. Was a bit shocked when I read this but I supose its the fact that he has been Derry's chief scorer since he came on the county scene. Credit where credit is due.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/8066436.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/8066436.stm)
And he hasn't even played in an Ulster final yet.
I don't see how anyone apart from a Derry supporter could have enjoyed that game - there was too much crap going on (diving, mouthing, petulance etc etc.) and not enough honest hard hitting football. Having said all that, the context for the game needs to be taken into account. That was the third year on the trot that the teams have met each other in the championship and Monaghan came into the game having won the previous 2 encounters. There was a lot of baggage between them, and it was always going to be 'fractious'.
Derry had all the baggage,
Monaghan had a clear conscience.
Once again Ulster brings shame to our games.
Only the healthy rivalries of the south such as Kerry v Cork, Dublin v Meath and Galway v Mayo can rescue the games from the muck that we have been served up so far.
QuoteRegarding people like you who promote the game, im sorry it was a negative game that made your job harder, but FFS take up your grievances after a run of such games and dont press the panic button just yet. Derry have not been involved in as cynical a game since Tyrone 06' (league or championship), so dont hang us out to dry until we make a habit of such games. Also it is long since established how much displeasure folks have with this game, could we not hear some constructive ideas rather than the Spillane style wailing and gnashing of teeth?
I have given my opinion on how we should tackle this problem but one of the biggest issues is people like yourself getting your back up about the criticism, despite me saying it a number times that this isn't about Derry or Monaghan but the game of football itself you still think I'm 'hanging Derry out to dry'. And despite me saying that this isn't just one or two games you still think I'm reacting on the basis of last Sunday. It is time that we should a bit of intelligence and perspective and dropped the bullshit about taking the physicality out of football or an anti-Northern bias whenever new rules are suggested to prevent games like we had last Sunday.
Sorry that I don't share your great intelligence and visionary perspective on things, but I just don't accept that football is in some kind of doldrums. A few instances per season of dirty games, bad refs and bitter rivalries have been part and parcel of the game for over hundred years and will be for the next hundred. I think there is slightly more diving and feigning injury but the hits are there and the standard and work rate of teams is at an all time high (compare with skills on all ireland gold). I think there are more cameras and media outlets to pick up every instance of nastiness and I don't believe for a second that the dark arts were not as prevalent in days gone by. In fact I think the intense media coverage has actually restrained the off the ball thuggery of yesteryear, particularly of the blatant 'mano a mano' hard man variety you seem to romanticise over. And I dont for one second believe that folks 10, 20 years ago didnt give other players sly kicks, knees or elbows in any less proportion. In fact I'd say it was worse.
Obviously this opinion makes me a big 'issue' standing in the way of progress. Well, you can always go watch American Football.
QuoteAnd I dont for one second believe that folks 10, 20 years ago didnt give other players sly kicks, knees or elbows in any less proportion. In fact I'd say it was worse.
Of course it was, nobody is saying anything different but like I said before, a soccer fan can't justify crowd violence on the basis it was worse in times gone by. You seem to be having trouble following my argument, I don't have any problem with a bit of argy bargy, my problem is we don't have the necessary sanctions which discourage players from engaging in the kind of nonsense we saw last Sunday. Christ there was hardly anything done last Sunday I didn't do or had done to me, and why was that? Because I knew we'd get away with it, every sport has bad games and every sport can have games that get out of hand but football does so more than most games. Next Sundays Tyrone/Armagh game could be a brilliant match or it could be a poor one however it could also be a foul ridden stop start spectacle. I've no problem if it is one of the first two but none of our games should be able to descend into the third, the fact that it may have happened in the last 125 years is all the more reason to make sure it can't for the next 125.
Quote from: crossfire on May 26, 2009, 09:27:40 PM
And he hasn't even played in an Ulster final yet.
wrong 2000 Ulster final V Armagh.
Quote from: Zulu on May 27, 2009, 01:51:46 AM
QuoteAnd I dont for one second believe that folks 10, 20 years ago didnt give other players sly kicks, knees or elbows in any less proportion. In fact I'd say it was worse.
Of course it was, nobody is saying anything different but like I said before, a soccer fan can't justify crowd violence on the basis it was worse in times gone by. You seem to be having trouble following my argument, I don't have any problem with a bit of argy bargy, my problem is we don't have the necessary sanctions which discourage players from engaging in the kind of nonsense we saw last Sunday. Christ there was hardly anything done last Sunday I didn't do or had done to me, and why was that? Because I knew we'd get away with it, every sport has bad games and every sport can have games that get out of hand but football does so more than most games. Next Sundays Tyrone/Armagh game could be a brilliant match or it could be a poor one however it could also be a foul ridden stop start spectacle. I've no problem if it is one of the first two but none of our games should be able to descend into the third, the fact that it may have happened in the last 125 years is all the more reason to make sure it can't for the next 125.
Fair enough, I don't disagree with those sentiments. I just feel that a game that is expected to remain highly physical and clean and flowing will always disappoint on occasions while there are bad days for refs and bitter rivalries. You can aim to change rules, sanctions, etc with worthy ambitions to make things better though, fair play to those in GAA who are active in doing this and good luck to them!
Cassidy brands TV pundits 'hypocrites'
27 May 2009
Derry manager Damian Cassidy has accused RTE's Sunday Game panel of hypocrisy as the fallout continues from last Sunday's controversial Ulster SFC clash in Celtic Park.
TV pundits Joe Brolly, Colm O'Rourke and Pat Spillane were scathing in their criticism of the rough house tactics employed by both Derry and Monaghan, but Cassidy has turned on them by claiming they were no angels themselves during their own playing days.
"I can't help but feel there is a rampant level of hypocrisy about this," he said.
"You are talking about pundits who when they played could have been cited very handily themselves.
"Now they are sitting on television with halos over their heads."
Cassidy was especially riled by Spillane's comments that he felt sorry for spectators who paid to watch the game.
"I haven't spoken to a Derry supporter yet who was disappointed with what they saw," he remarked.
"There are people with their own agendas here. Being controversial is one way of maintaining your profile."
Let's not forget that Spillane is still unloading his feckless frustration from being ensconced in the anchor's chair for the last few years, and will be for the foreseeable future (what unbridled joy). And if you think he was talking shite before you ain't heard nothing yet.
"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!??"
Any gael confirm the date and time for the Derry v Armagh / Tyrone semi-final? Have heard both a Sunday afternoon and Saturday evening throw being bandied about
cheers
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 27, 2009, 10:38:26 AM
Cassidy brands TV pundits 'hypocrites'
27 May 2009
Derry manager Damian Cassidy has accused RTE's Sunday Game panel of hypocrisy as the fallout continues from last Sunday's controversial Ulster SFC clash in Celtic Park.
TV pundits Joe Brolly, Colm O'Rourke and Pat Spillane were scathing in their criticism of the rough house tactics employed by both Derry and Monaghan, but Cassidy has turned on them by claiming they were no angels themselves during their own playing days.
"I can't help but feel there is a rampant level of hypocrisy about this," he said.
"You are talking about pundits who when they played could have been cited very handily themselves.
"Now they are sitting on television with halos over their heads."
Cassidy was especially riled by Spillane's comments that he felt sorry for spectators who paid to watch the game.
"I haven't spoken to a Derry supporter yet who was disappointed with what they saw," he remarked.
"There are people with their own agendas here. Being controversial is one way of maintaining your profile."
I'm glad Cassidy has come out and said this, but it will make no difference to these clowns as they pontificate as if their word is the last on all issues. These so-called analysts are talking about the football being poor - well I reckon the quality of punditry is poor. And they're the ones getting paid!
They comment on whether or not it was a poor game of football - to me that is irrelevant; most of us want to know how and why a game was won or lost.
It's probably a topic for another thread, but The Sunday Game guys, along with Burns and McHugh also are getting tiresome. I enjoyed more Setanta's coverage during the league.
He may be a negative hoor but Eugene McGee at least tells it how it is, and as regards Ulster football especially, Peter Canavan usually calls it spot on.
It's much fresher than the lazy nonsense spouted by McHugh and Spillane.
it would have been more fitting for RTE to have someone from Monaghan on the panel to counter Brolly´s cheerleading for Derry's yet to be revealed brand of pure football.
I think Nudie Hughes on his own would have balanced out all three of them.
Quote from: Main Street on May 27, 2009, 12:39:03 PM
it would have been more fitting for RTE to have someone from Monaghan on the panel to counter Brolly´s cheerleading for Derry's yet to be revealed brand of pure football.
I think Nudie Hughes on his own would have balanced out all three of them.
Send JP Graham as well
Quote from: Joel Cairo on May 27, 2009, 12:22:32 PM
I'm glad Cassidy has come out
steady on - think thats the worst insult thrown here on this thread to date !
would agree that there is a level of hypocrisy alright, some Derry players were no angels, I dont expect an under 10 type clean game, but some of this was a bit OTT, esp the couple of Derry lads that let it get to them.
As was said longbefore the game , we know how Monaghan play and while it might not be pretty , its borderline on the rules (quite a lot of it over the line)
but thats football and all teams (dont kid yourselves) are guilty of a bit of it to varying degrees - cork,kerry, galway etc too..
Quote from: Main Street on May 27, 2009, 12:39:03 PM
it would have been more fitting for RTE to have someone from Monaghan on the panel to counter Brolly´s cheerleading for Derry's yet to be revealed brand of pure football.
I think Nudie Hughes on his own would have balanced out all three of them.
:D
aye - literally , if he's still the same size as he was a few years ago !
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 27, 2009, 10:38:26 AM
Cassidy brands TV pundits 'hypocrites'
27 May 2009
Derry manager Damian Cassidy has accused RTE's Sunday Game panel of hypocrisy as the fallout continues from last Sunday's controversial Ulster SFC clash in Celtic Park.
TV pundits Joe Brolly, Colm O'Rourke and Pat Spillane were scathing in their criticism of the rough house tactics employed by both Derry and Monaghan, but Cassidy has turned on them by claiming they were no angels themselves during their own playing days.
"I can't help but feel there is a rampant level of hypocrisy about this," he said.
"You are talking about pundits who when they played could have been cited very handily themselves.
"Now they are sitting on television with halos over their heads."
Cassidy was especially riled by Spillane's comments that he felt sorry for spectators who paid to watch the game.
"I haven't spoken to a Derry supporter yet who was disappointed with what they saw," he remarked.
"There are people with their own agendas here. Being controversial is one way of maintaining your profile."
Speaking from the pulpit Max?
Quote from: Main Street on May 26, 2009, 10:16:32 PM
Derry had all the baggage,
Monaghan had a clear conscience.
Umhum... ::)
You need to stop taking everything so serious Oakleafer! ;)
The players are so damn inconsiderate, the first thing on their minds when crossing the line should have been, 'right paddy how am I going to promote the GAA today', any thought of winning should have been secondary to putting on a spectable. Ban them all I say, especially the ginger ones.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 27, 2009, 01:08:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 27, 2009, 12:39:03 PM
it would have been more fitting for RTE to have someone from Monaghan on the panel to counter Brolly´s cheerleading for Derry's yet to be revealed brand of pure football.
I think Nudie Hughes on his own would have balanced out all three of them.
:D
aye - literally , if he's still the same size as he was a few years ago !
You mean the widescreen version ;D
I don't think Nudie is tall enough to bite my backside.
Mulligan plays down Celtic Park controversy
Tyrone forward Owen Mulligan has described the reaction to Sunday's controversial Ulster SFC clash between Derry and Monaghan as 'over the top'.
Derry booked a date with Tyrone after seeing off the Farney on a scoreline of 1-10 to 0-10 in a game that saw several violent clashes.
But Mulligan says such physicality is inevitable with the stakes so high at this time of year, and said the Red Hands would be willing to do exactly the same to guarantee success..
'Some people say the Ulster Championship does not matter, but it does,' Mulligan said.
'The Tyrone team and different teams around Ulster do care. That is the Tyrone team's first goal, to win Ulster, and we'll do anything to do it. If it means getting rough and getting physical we will do that,' he insisted.
'I only saw the second half but I think the reaction was a bit over the top. Alright, players got involved, but there is a great deal at stake and you will do anything to win. I think that is what they did, but I don't think it's as bad as some people made out.'
Another bruising encounter is expected at Clones on Sunday where Tyrone and Armagh will do battle for the right to face Derry on 21 June.
Muggsy in talking sense shocker.
Quote from: ONeill on May 27, 2009, 01:27:57 PM
Mulligan plays down Celtic Park controversy
Tyrone forward Owen Mulligan has described the reaction to Sunday's controversial Ulster SFC clash between Derry and Monaghan as 'over the top'.
Derry booked a date with Tyrone after seeing off the Farney on a scoreline of 1-10 to 0-10 in a game that saw several violent clashes.
But Mulligan says such physicality is inevitable with the stakes so high at this time of year, and said the Red Hands would be willing to do exactly the same to guarantee success..
'Some people say the Ulster Championship does not matter, but it does,' Mulligan said.
'The Tyrone team and different teams around Ulster do care. That is the Tyrone team's first goal, to win Ulster, and we'll do anything to do it. If it means getting rough and getting physical we will do that,' he insisted.
'I only saw the second half but I think the reaction was a bit over the top. Alright, players got involved, but there is a great deal at stake and you will do anything to win. I think that is what they did, but I don't think it's as bad as some people made out.'
Another bruising encounter is expected at Clones on Sunday where Tyrone and Armagh will do battle for the right to face Derry on 21 June.
We have a match to play yet, hope that was a typo and not a quote
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2009/0527/tyrone.html
Ah balax. There's motivational fodder.
All threads eventually lead to Tyrone ::)
Frank Mc Nally's perspective, in today's Irish Times:
An Irishman's Diary
Frank McNally
IN THE CALM before throw-in at Derry's Celtic Park on Sunday, I drew my nine-year-old son's attention to the historic backdrop of the game. "You see up there on top of that hill?" I said, pointing away into the distance, where a Union Jack fluttered from the ramparts. "Those are the famous Walls of Derry. They've been the cause of a lot of trouble over the years."
Then we settled back to watch a football match, or so I thought. But the fellow Monaghan supporter beside me, a seasoned individual better versed than I in the Ulster GAA's ancient honour code, hinted that there might not be much football during the next hour and a half. "We need a strong referee here today," he confided in hushed tones. "Otherwise, they'll bate us into the ground."
Considering his dire words, I glanced with concern at my son. Suddenly the wisdom of bringing an impressionable child from Dublin to an Ulster Championship first round match, in which there had been a build-up of hostility from the two previous years, with the result that the home side now had a point to prove, seemed very questionable.
What on earth had I been thinking? Clearly I needed to protect his innocence, in order that he could return to his under-10 games with enthusiasm undiminished. So as the grim spectacle unfolded before us, I told him that the scheduled football match had been cancelled at the last minute because it clashed with a local arts festival; and that, as part of the latter, what we were witnessing instead was a 40th anniversary re-enactment of the Battle of the Bogside.
"The men in red are pretending to be the B-Specials," I explained, after the game's early exchanges. "And the ones in blue are playing the part of unarmed civil rights activists, protesting over corrupt housing policies, gerrymandering, and the need for political reform generally. See how they've erected barricades across their 45-yard line? The area behind that is supposed to represent Free Derry."
So it continued until, as the "re-enactment" reached a climax, my son inquired who the man in black with the whistle was meant to be. "That's the then taoiseach, Jack Lynch," I explained. "He's very concerned about what's going on, and he's threatening to not stand idly by. But really, he's helpless to prevent the mayhem." Sure enough, another two players hit the ground in front of us, pretending to fight. "It's very realistic, isn't it?" I said.
IT'S ALWAYS disappointing to be knocked out of the Ulster Championship in round one. But since the advent of the back-door system, being knocked out of the Ulster Championship, with its Sicilian-style feuds and vendettas, is also its own consolation.
And as we trooped home from Celtic Park afterwards, our eyes red from tear gas, at least the exotic possibilities of the qualifier draw were now open to us.
Oh for a beaker of the warm south, we thought. Maybe we'd get Tipperary. Or Waterford. Or any of those lovely, relaxed places down the country where hurling is prized and football is kept alive only by an eth?ic minority. Not that it had to be Munster, either. Even a visit to the balmy climes of Tullamore, or Longford, seemed seductive.
Then we hit the first of a long series of traffic jams on the road home, and the mirage of Munster and Leinster gradually receded. Stuck in a tailback among the red-white-and-blue kerbstones of New Buildings, three miles out of Derry, we experienced our first yearning for the sight of a traffic cop. It was, as all such yearnings subsequently would be, unrequited.
Not long ago, it was still common to hear Northern Ireland described as a police state. But on Sunday last, from Aughnacloy to the Walls of Derry and back again, we didn't see a single police-person anywhere. As a consequence, the whole excruciatingly long way south to the Border, we were at the mercy of rogue – apparently DUP-designed – traffic lights, that absolutely refused to turn green in any circumstances.
We realised then it wouldn't be so easy escaping the North, even through the back door. Last year, after all, our reward for early elimination from Ulster was draws against Derry and Donegal. It was only when we ran of Northern teams to beat that, like a shot to an injured horse, they gave us Kerry.
Two hours south of Celtic Park, still in bumper-to-bumper traffic, we were resigned to the utter certainty of getting the losers from next Sunday's Tyrone-Armagh match in the qualifiers. And to add to the torture, John O'Shea of Goal (and Kerry) was on the radio pontificating about his embarrassment about having to watch the game earlier among American tourists. It felt like we were stuck in some GAA version of the seventh circle of hell; although on closer inspection, it was only the ring road around Omagh.
Quote from: peterquaife on May 27, 2009, 11:20:54 AM
"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!??"
Any gael confirm the date and time for the Derry v Armagh / Tyrone semi-final? Have heard both a Sunday afternoon and Saturday evening throw being bandied about
cheers
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/7840342.stm
After all the controversy Monaghan are putting out a less aggressive side for the qualifiers:
Probable Monaghan team for the qualifiers
Player (Club side)
Darth Vader (Death star)
G. Bush Sr (NRA)
Martin johnson ( Tir Chonnail gaels)
Ricky Hatton (Manchester Gaels)
G. Bush Jr (NRA)
Hunter Hearst Helmsley (WWF Rangers)
paul gascoine (AA)
Roy Keane (Langer GFC)
Steve Collins (St Saviours GFC)
Sauron (St. Mordors)
O. Bin Laden (leading the attack - naturally)
Joe o'reilly (Joy 'Gaels')
The Undertaker (Castleblaney faughs)
Davy tweed (Balymena assassins)
Rory woods (scotstown)
;)
That's not funny Lynchboy. ;D
You know what would be funny, us getting a home draw against Derry in the 2nd round of the qualifiers.
But if Derry will find that pot of pure football at the end of the rainbow then
any team travelling to face us better have a few toilets on their coach.
Quote from: Main Street on May 27, 2009, 05:35:19 PM
That's not funny Lynchboy. ;D
You know what would be funny, us getting a home draw against Derry in the 2nd round of the qualifiers.
But if Derry will find that pot of pure football at the end of the rainbow then
any team travelling to face us better have a few toilets on their coach.
the manager has to sort that kind of reaction/retaliation out of the Derry side.
for example all teams will target Fergal Doc to try and get him sent off form now on...
If Derry can learn to channel ALL their aggression into playing football and responding with hard tackling and not resorting to fighting/aggressor/retialiation then they will be a long way down the right road.
Monaghan will continue to cause problems for most teams and can still go well this season in the qualifiers.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 27, 2009, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 27, 2009, 05:35:19 PM
That's not funny Lynchboy. ;D
You know what would be funny, us getting a home draw against Derry in the 2nd round of the qualifiers.
But if Derry will find that pot of pure football at the end of the rainbow then
any team travelling to face us better have a few toilets on their coach.
the manager has to sort that kind of reaction/retaliation out of the Derry side.
for example all teams will target Fergal Doc to try and get him sent off form now on...
If Derry can learn to channel ALL their aggression into playing football and responding with hard tackling and not resorting to fighting/aggressor/retialiation then they will be a long way down the right road.
Spot on. There's a big difference between physicality and indiscipline. Derry walked a fine line on Sunday. Teams can get easily sidetracked into all the niggly stuff and lose focus. Better teams than Monaghan would have punished Derry.
Monaghan have a naturally aspirated aggression, Derry looked like they had swallowed the wrong type of mushroom, the fly agaric ones.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 27, 2009, 04:42:46 PM
After all the controversy Monaghan are putting out a less aggressive side for the qualifiers:
Probable Monaghan team for the qualifiers
Player (Club side)
Darth Vader (Death star)
G. Bush Sr (NRA)
Martin johnson ( Tir Chonnail gaels)
Ricky Hatton (Manchester Gaels)
G. Bush Jr (NRA)
Hunter Hearst Helmsley (WWF Rangers)
paul gascoine (AA)
Roy Keane (Langer GFC)
Steve Collins (St Saviours GFC)
Sauron (St. Mordors)
O. Bin Laden (leading the attack - naturally)
Joe o'reilly (Joy 'Gaels')
The Undertaker (Castleblaney faughs)
Davy tweed (Balymena assassins)
Rory woods (scotstown)
;)
Rory Woods isn't Scotstown.
your ma is Scotstown
Quote from: Main Street on May 27, 2009, 06:23:02 PM
Monaghan have a naturally aspirated aggression, Derry looked like they had swallowed the wrong type of mushroom, the fly agaric ones.
Does this mean they are naturally dirty whereas Derry had to work on it it a bit?
Quote from: Armamike on May 27, 2009, 06:09:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 27, 2009, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 27, 2009, 05:35:19 PM
That's not funny Lynchboy. ;D
You know what would be funny, us getting a home draw against Derry in the 2nd round of the qualifiers.
But if Derry will find that pot of pure football at the end of the rainbow then
any team travelling to face us better have a few toilets on their coach.
the manager has to sort that kind of reaction/retaliation out of the Derry side.
for example all teams will target Fergal Doc to try and get him sent off form now on...
If Derry can learn to channel ALL their aggression into playing football and responding with hard tackling and not resorting to fighting/aggressor/retialiation then they will be a long way down the right road.
Spot on. There's a big difference between physicality and indiscipline. Derry walked a fine line on Sunday. Teams can get easily sidetracked into all the niggly stuff and lose focus. Better teams than Monaghan would have punished Derry.
Better teams than Monaghan wouldn't have felt the need to adopt Monaghan-esque thuggery against Derry (sure in the knowledge that they (Kerry, Galway, Dublin etc.) could beat the London boys by playing genuine football) and it is likely that, outside of a game against the Bushmen Tyrone, Derry wouldn't have felt the need to play like they did on Sunday.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 27, 2009, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: Armamike on May 27, 2009, 06:09:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 27, 2009, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 27, 2009, 05:35:19 PM
That's not funny Lynchboy. ;D
You know what would be funny, us getting a home draw against Derry in the 2nd round of the qualifiers.
But if Derry will find that pot of pure football at the end of the rainbow then
any team travelling to face us better have a few toilets on their coach.
the manager has to sort that kind of reaction/retaliation out of the Derry side.
for example all teams will target Fergal Doc to try and get him sent off form now on...
If Derry can learn to channel ALL their aggression into playing football and responding with hard tackling and not resorting to fighting/aggressor/retialiation then they will be a long way down the right road.
Spot on. There's a big difference between physicality and indiscipline. Derry walked a fine line on Sunday. Teams can get easily sidetracked into all the niggly stuff and lose focus. Better teams than Monaghan would have punished Derry.
Better teams than Monaghan wouldn't have felt the need to adopt Monaghan-esque thuggery against Derry (sure in the knowledge that they (Kerry, Galway, Dublin etc.) could beat the London boys by playing genuine football) and it is likely that, outside of a game against the Bushmen Tyrone, Derry wouldn't have felt the need to play like they did on Sunday.
Are you saying that Derry aren't a better team than Monaghan then?
No.
Really? You're saying that better teams than Monaghan wouldn't adopt this 'thuggery'. But Derry did. Therefore, by your argument, they aren't a better team than Monaghan.
always love to hear Spillane spouting his muck! If any of you watch the great Kerry team of the 70s/80s I reckon Spillane spent most of his time in his own teams full and half back lines, before foraging forward , much like the way the current Tyrone team play and much like a certain Brian dooher, and he reckons Monaghans Halfforwardswere playing too deep!! Also talks about the quality and standard of current games, recently watched a clip of the Bould Pat "trying " to kick a point from about 16 yards out in front of the post in a munster final ( mid 70s), the ball dropped SHORT into Billy Morgans hands , who then proceeded to drop it after his own full back ran into him and the ball finnished in the net. ( I think this is correct, working on memory) anyways Pats full of mad dogs dung
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 27, 2009, 10:04:35 PM
Really? You're saying that better teams than Monaghan wouldn't adopt this 'thuggery'. But Derry did. Therefore, by your argument, they aren't a better team than Monaghan.
Ah, I get it. A very twisted and ultimately flawed logic. You left out the important gambit "against Derry" from your post, which should now read "
You're saying that better teams than Monaghan wouldn't adopt this 'thuggery' against Derry. But Derry did.". Derry didn't adopt this thuggery against Derry, that is physically impossible and negates any point you're trying to make.
Better teams than Monaghan, like those I outlined above haven't adopted Monaghan-esque thuggery against Derry. If Derry were to play against any of those, the Oakleafers would be fairly safe to assume that Dublin, Kerry, Galway etc. will attempt to play football. If Derry were to play Monaghan again, it is an even safer assumption that Monaghan will revert to the disgraceful tactics honed under the McEnaney / McElkennon axis. Derry will play football in the correct spirit when it is possible (there is nothing in Cass's CV to suggest otherwise); if referees and the GAA hierarchy do not protect them against Monaghan, then they are entitled, as they did on Sunday, to ensure that they create the circumstances allowing pure football to be played.
In such circumstances,they will prove that they are indeed a much better side than the Farneymen.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 27, 2009, 04:42:46 PM
After all the controversy Monaghan are putting out a less aggressive side for the qualifiers:
Probable Monaghan team for the qualifiers
Player (Club side)
Darth Vader (Death star)
G. Bush Sr (NRA)
Martin johnson ( Tir Chonnail gaels)
Ricky Hatton (Manchester Gaels)
G. Bush Jr (NRA)
Hunter Hearst Helmsley (WWF Rangers)
paul gascoine (AA)
Roy Keane (Langer GFC)
Steve Collins (St Saviours GFC)
Sauron (St. Mordors)
O. Bin Laden (leading the attack - naturally)
Joe o'reilly (Joy 'Gaels')
The Undertaker (Castleblaney faughs)
Davy tweed (Balymena assassins)
Rory woods (scotstown)
;)
HHH would have to be full forward - he's got a nose for goal
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 27, 2009, 10:44:14 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 27, 2009, 10:04:35 PM
Really? You're saying that better teams than Monaghan wouldn't adopt this 'thuggery'. But Derry did. Therefore, by your argument, they aren't a better team than Monaghan.
Ah, I get it. A very twisted and ultimately flawed logic. You left out the important gambit "against Derry" from your post, which should now read "You're saying that better teams than Monaghan wouldn't adopt this 'thuggery' against Derry. But Derry did.". Derry didn't adopt this thuggery against Derry, that is physically impossible and negates any point you're trying to make.
Better teams than Monaghan, like those I outlined above haven't adopted Monaghan-esque thuggery against Derry. If Derry were to play against any of those, the Oakleafers would be fairly safe to assume that Dublin, Kerry, Galway etc. will attempt to play football. If Derry were to play Monaghan again, it is an even safer assumption that Monaghan will revert to the disgraceful tactics honed under the McEnaney / McElkennon axis. Derry will play football in the correct spirit when it is possible (there is nothing in Cass's CV to suggest otherwise); if referees and the GAA hierarchy do not protect them against Monaghan, then they are entitled, as they did on Sunday, to ensure that they create the circumstances allowing pure football to be played.
In such circumstances,they will prove that they are indeed a much better side than the Farneymen.
Hope this helps.
By kicking and retaliating? Really good sides are fairly adept at spotting flaws in the opposition. The likes of Doherty are too easily wound up. The better teams will take note and exploit that, if they have to.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 27, 2009, 07:23:11 PM
Rory woods (scotstown)
;)
Rory Woods isn't Scotstown.
[/quote]
I know
the whole post was meant to be somewhat of a joke !
Quote from: Armamike on May 27, 2009, 11:24:25 PM
The likes of Doherty are too easily wound up. The better teams will take note and exploit that, if they have to.
That could swing both ways. The officials will probably keep a closer eye on fergal now, so anyone niggling at him will be seen too.
Quote from: Armamike on May 27, 2009, 06:09:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 27, 2009, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 27, 2009, 05:35:19 PM
That's not funny Lynchboy. ;D
You know what would be funny, us getting a home draw against Derry in the 2nd round of the qualifiers.
But if Derry will find that pot of pure football at the end of the rainbow then
any team travelling to face us better have a few toilets on their coach.
the manager has to sort that kind of reaction/retaliation out of the Derry side.
for example all teams will target Fergal Doc to try and get him sent off form now on...
If Derry can learn to channel ALL their aggression into playing football and responding with hard tackling and not resorting to fighting/aggressor/retialiation then they will be a long way down the right road.
Spot on. There's a big difference between physicality and indiscipline. Derry walked a fine line on Sunday. Teams can get easily sidetracked into all the niggly stuff and lose focus. Better teams than Monaghan would have punished Derry.
would agree
but that begs the question - would Derry have played like that (resorting to retaliation , sometimes retaliating first) against another side ?
Monaghan have that type of game and teams cant play open nice football against them if they do they will lose.
Main st - ya have to realise that Monaghan are the instigators and aggressors , maybe not as bad as people make out, but in the magnified Ulster championship, this amplifies all these kinds of actions - in both deed and publicity/observation.
They are a bit like MON's Celtic . Imposing their game and no one wants toplay them.
If I was a monaghan man I'd be proud of the team that McAnaney has created. Its not nice football at times but at other times its fantastic to be viewed as a TEAM.
Didn't know where to post this article but thought it was relevant after all yer chat this week.
FOOTBALLER of the Year Sean Cavanagh believes referees must act faster and earlier if they're to rid the championship of cynical fouling.
The Tyrone full-forward accepts his side's Ulster SFC clash with Armagh on Sunday will be the subject of close scrutiny. That's a result of last weekend's stormy Ulster tie between Derry and Monaghan which saw one player red carded and 11 yellows dished out.
Cavanagh refused to criticise the players whom, he claims, will always try to get away with as much as possible. Rather he says it's up to referees to be more decisive and to lay down the law in the early stages of games.
"Maybe if referees took a bit more authority and forget about old rules and new rules and concentrate on implementing the rules we might be able to play good, free flowing football," said Cavanagh.
"You don't mind taking the hits as long as they are within the rules.
"But when players are getting away with pulling and dragging away from the ball and scuffles at every opportunity then referees, linesmen and umpires have to deal with it accordingly.
"I don't think it's a point of new rules versus old rules; it's a point of playing within the rules and having them properly enforced."
This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, May 28, 2009
Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cavanagh-calls-on-referees-to-be-stricter-92849.html#ixzz0GnB6GIWn&B
(http://read%20more:%20http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cavanagh-calls-on-referees-to-be-stricter-92849.html#ixzz0GnB6GIWn&B)
Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 27, 2009, 10:44:14 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 27, 2009, 10:04:35 PM
Really? You're saying that better teams than Monaghan wouldn't adopt this 'thuggery'. But Derry did. Therefore, by your argument, they aren't a better team than Monaghan.
Ah, I get it. A very twisted and ultimately flawed logic. You left out the important gambit "against Derry" from your post, which should now read "You're saying that better teams than Monaghan wouldn't adopt this 'thuggery' against Derry. But Derry did.". Derry didn't adopt this thuggery against Derry, that is physically impossible and negates any point you're trying to make.
Better teams than Monaghan, like those I outlined above haven't adopted Monaghan-esque thuggery against Derry. If Derry were to play against any of those, the Oakleafers would be fairly safe to assume that Dublin, Kerry, Galway etc. will attempt to play football. If Derry were to play Monaghan again, it is an even safer assumption that Monaghan will revert to the disgraceful tactics honed under the McEnaney / McElkennon axis. Derry will play football in the correct spirit when it is possible (there is nothing in Cass's CV to suggest otherwise); if referees and the GAA hierarchy do not protect them against Monaghan, then they are entitled, as they did on Sunday, to ensure that they create the circumstances allowing pure football to be played.
In such circumstances,they will prove that they are indeed a much better side than the Farneymen.
Hope this helps.
Yes, very helpful indeed.
But you're ignoring the fact that Monaghan beat Derry in 2007 and 2008, where there was no mention of 'thuggery' as far as I can recall. In fact, in 2007 in particular, Monaghan played great football and the 2 point winning margin didn't reflect their superiority on the day.
Now i'm not saying Monaghan are better than Derry - Derry are a very talented team. It's just the rest of the BS i'm disputing.
Christ I'm bored of this thread!
Monaghan think we're to blame for the rough tactics...Derry think Monaghan are to blame...
The game is....we won....can we move on and forget about it please!
Just a wee comment about Sean Cavanagh's article there....I think its a bit rich coming from him about the refs implementing existing rules....if they did, then you could well argue that Tyrone wouldnt have won their first all-ireland due to the manner in which they played....you could also argue that Cavanagh could be spending a lot of time in the stands having been booked for diving and mouthing.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 28, 2009, 12:34:52 PM
Christ I'm bored of this thread!
Monaghan think we're to blame for the rough tactics...Derry think Monaghan are to blame...
The game is....we won....can we move on and forget about it please!
Just a wee comment about Sean Cavanagh's article there....I think its a bit rich coming from him about the refs implementing existing rules....if they did, then you could well argue that Tyrone wouldnt have won their first all-ireland due to the manner in which they played....you could also argue that Cavanagh could be spending a lot of time in the stands having been booked for diving and mouthing.
Get ready for the onslaught from Tyronies
Chrissie Mc Keague is the man you want there.
Quote from: rrhf on May 28, 2009, 02:16:42 PM
Chrissie Mc Keague is the man you want there.
It was embarrassing to watch and he could yet get a suspension out of it, but a lock of your boys Dooher prime suspect are at it more than enough.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 28, 2009, 03:30:53 PM
and he could yet get a suspension out of it,.
No he won't
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 28, 2009, 12:34:52 PM
Christ I'm bored of this thread!
Monaghan think we're to blame for the rough tactics...Derry think Monaghan are to blame...
The game is....we won....can we move on and forget about it please!
Just a wee comment about Sean Cavanagh's article there....I think its a bit rich coming from him about the refs implementing existing rules....if they did, then you could well argue that Tyrone wouldnt have won their first all-ireland due to the manner in which they played....you could also argue that Cavanagh could be spending a lot of time in the stands having been booked for diving and mouthing.
:D :D :D :D FFS it was 6 years ago. Get over it !
Quote from: the green man on May 28, 2009, 03:35:38 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 28, 2009, 03:30:53 PM
and he could yet get a suspension out of it,.
No he won't
I know he probably won't but there are grounds for it
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 28, 2009, 03:41:49 PM
I know he probably won't but there are grounds for it
No there's not
Quote from: the green man on May 28, 2009, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 28, 2009, 03:41:49 PM
I know he probably won't but there are grounds for it
No there's not
Of course there is he pretended to be hit to try and get a man sent off.
The embarassment he should suffer after watching it should be suffice, cringeworthy to say the least.
Up there with spitting at someone imo.
Quote from: rrhf on May 28, 2009, 02:16:42 PM
Chrissie Mc Keague is the man you want there.
If you look through my posts you will find that I'm not a big fan of his....nor this type of behaviour from anyone.
My point is...that its a very hypocritical remark for Cavanagh to make.
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 28, 2009, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 28, 2009, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 28, 2009, 03:41:49 PM
I know he probably won't but there are grounds for it
No there's not
Of course there is he pretended to be hit to try and get a man sent off.
No he didn't. It was a sly dig
Is it on youtube??
Quote from: the green man on May 28, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 28, 2009, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: the green man on May 28, 2009, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 28, 2009, 03:41:49 PM
I know he probably won't but there are grounds for it
No there's not
Of course there is he pretended to be hit to try and get a man sent off.
No he didn't. It was a sly dig
Catch yourself on would you, I admit I'm no great fan of him but he did and everyone knows he did it. Just admit it, I hope he doesn't get suspended or anything from it but it was a stupid thing to be at.
its on iplayer.
Perhaps 93 can go and watch it. Theres definitely a slight dig to the face.
What minute? (Roughly)
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 28, 2009, 04:32:57 PM
What minute? (Roughly)
Near the end I have it on here i'll try to find it
1hr 30min or thereabouts
edit 1hr 32min 27sec
Mc Kaigue lifts Freeman's hand and more or less hit's himself in the side of the head, Mc Kaigue overreacted
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 28, 2009, 04:42:18 PM
Mc Kaigue lifts Freeman's hand and more or less hit's himself in the side of the head, Mc Kaigue overreacted
As well as holding the ball withtwo hands?
Quote from: the green man on May 28, 2009, 04:48:39 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 28, 2009, 04:42:18 PM
Mc Kaigue lifts Freeman's hand and more or less hit's himself in the side of the head, Mc Kaigue overreacted
As well as holding the ball withtwo hands?
He is holding the ball with one hand into his chest and freeman's arm with the other.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 28, 2009, 12:34:52 PM
Christ I'm bored of this thread!
Monaghan think we're to blame for the rough tactics...Derry think Monaghan are to blame...
The game is....we won....can we move on and forget about it please!
Just a wee comment about Sean Cavanagh's article there....I think its a bit rich coming from him about the refs implementing existing rules....if they did, then you could well argue that Tyrone wouldnt have won their first all-ireland due to the manner in which they played....you could also argue that Cavanagh could be spending a lot of time in the stands having been booked for diving and mouthing.
When Was Cavanagh ever booked for diving or mouthing???
Your full of shit tbrick, jealousy gets you nowhere!!
Quote from: the green man on May 28, 2009, 04:35:16 PM
1hr 30min or thereabouts
edit 1hr 32min 27sec
Thanks. I'll try to get a look at it and give my tuppence worth!
Quote from: Final Whistle on May 28, 2009, 05:40:25 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 28, 2009, 12:34:52 PM
Christ I'm bored of this thread!
Monaghan think we're to blame for the rough tactics...Derry think Monaghan are to blame...
The game is....we won....can we move on and forget about it please!
Just a wee comment about Sean Cavanagh's article there....I think its a bit rich coming from him about the refs implementing existing rules....if they did, then you could well argue that Tyrone wouldnt have won their first all-ireland due to the manner in which they played....you could also argue that Cavanagh could be spending a lot of time in the stands having been booked for diving and mouthing.
When Was Cavanagh ever booked for diving or mouthing???
Your full of shit tbrick, jealousy gets you nowhere!!
Think you're missing his point.
Quote from: the green man on May 28, 2009, 04:35:16 PM
1hr 30min or thereabouts
edit 1hr 32min 27sec
CRINGE!
And there was me giving off about Monaghan diving. There is NO place for this in our game. This diving shit is why I can't stand soccer. Our game is slowly but surely heading in that direction.
This isn't a personal attack on McKaigue, but he should be ashamed of himself for trying to get someone sent off for nothing.
The pivotal point here, is the movement of McKaigues head. Theres no way he could fake that. Definite punch. Not a big one mind, but still a punch.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 28, 2009, 10:37:15 AM
Didn't know where to post this article but thought it was relevant after all yer chat this week.
FOOTBALLER of the Year Sean Cavanagh believes referees must act faster and earlier if they're to rid the championship of cynical fouling.
The Tyrone full-forward accepts his side's Ulster SFC clash with Armagh on Sunday will be the subject of close scrutiny. That's a result of last weekend's stormy Ulster tie between Derry and Monaghan which saw one player red carded and 11 yellows dished out.
Cavanagh refused to criticise the players whom, he claims, will always try to get away with as much as possible. Rather he says it's up to referees to be more decisive and to lay down the law in the early stages of games.
"Maybe if referees took a bit more authority and forget about old rules and new rules and concentrate on implementing the rules we might be able to play good, free flowing football," said Cavanagh.
"You don't mind taking the hits as long as they are within the rules.
"But when players are getting away with pulling and dragging away from the ball and scuffles at every opportunity then referees, linesmen and umpires have to deal with it accordingly.
"I don't think it's a point of new rules versus old rules; it's a point of playing within the rules and having them properly enforced."
This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, May 28, 2009
Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cavanagh-calls-on-referees-to-be-stricter-92849.html#ixzz0GnB6GIWn&B
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If ever a player got it right this is it. Refs, linesmen and unpires all neglected their resposibility on Sunday, it is up to them to report players breaking rules. i saw the two Bradleys on Sunday getting abused before the ref even threw the ball in, what did the umprires do, nothing just let it go on. If a player is getting away with abuse on the pitch and the ref doesn't do his job to ensure he can play football then i say give them all you've got until the ref starts protecting you. I have been sayig this for a while now that our officials are all opting out of the big calls. Using arguments that they don't want to send them off is as weak an argument as the weak ref. Why is at these massive games it is the refs mates who are umpires......that sums it up really. The refs mates is left to take the moral high ground and save our games. the hierarchy need to wise up.
IMHO, the umpires & linesmen were more to blame for last Sunday's shenanigans
How many times was the referee alerted throughout the whole game?
I'd agree. Those umpires should not have been letting the monaghan goalie away with what he was up too.
Joe Brolly was on the Des Cahiill programme on RTE radio one tonight putting forward was sounded suspiciously like a legal defence for Fergal Doherty when he appears on the expected charges. I missed the start, as I was driving, but, after patronising Dick Clerkin, and saying he could sometimes be an effective midfielder, Brolly went on to put the entire blame for the trouble on the Monaghan man.
According to Brolly, Clerkin was well known for his antics and Darragh O'Se had come off early in a Railway Cup game in protest over his behaviour. Brolly said that Doherty has stud marks on his face and his chest, and had to put up with intolerable intimidation from the start of the game until his red card.
Cahill challenged Brolly on Doherty's own conduct, but Brolly claimed that Doherty had only been letting Clerkin know he was there by flicking at his heels and did not deserve any further punishment.
As a neutral, watching on tv, it seemed to me that Monaghan have more than a little form in this regard but Derry's lost of discipline was probably greater on the day.
It would be very difficult to say who threw the first blow between Doherty and Clerkin, but both were clearly at fault in the incident when they each received yellow cards and Doherty's fingers were far too close to Clerkin's eyes as they tangled on the ground.
Doherty committed another foul on a different Monaghan player shortly afterwards and could easily have got his second yellow at that stage.
In the second half, Clerkin appeared to throw an arm at Doherty but Doherty responded with what were fairly clearly a couple of ankle kicks rather than what might be described as flicks.
As the referee missed this confrontation, it can be expected to form the main part of any post-match investigation. I doubt if Brolly's explanation will get Doherty off, but we should find out fairly shortly.
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 28, 2009, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: Final Whistle on May 28, 2009, 05:40:25 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 28, 2009, 12:34:52 PM
Christ I'm bored of this thread!
Monaghan think we're to blame for the rough tactics...Derry think Monaghan are to blame...
The game is....we won....can we move on and forget about it please!
Just a wee comment about Sean Cavanagh's article there....I think its a bit rich coming from him about the refs implementing existing rules....if they did, then you could well argue that Tyrone wouldnt have won their first all-ireland due to the manner in which they played....you could also argue that Cavanagh could be spending a lot of time in the stands having been booked for diving and mouthing.
When Was Cavanagh ever booked for diving or mouthing???
Your full of shit tbrick, jealousy gets you nowhere!!
Think you're missing his point.
Cheers SLK....I wasnt even going to bother trying explaining myself to this wee schoolboy poster.
cant be bothered reading the whole thread. what i will say is that i am proud of the way derry stood up to the challenge on sunday. yes there were nasty incidents, and some players on both sides went way over the top, but after the past 2 years against monaghan i'm glad derry stood up to the physical challenge from monaghan.
2007 we were well beaten, a late goal and 2 points put a decent look on the scoreboard. while we were outplayed and out fought by a hungier and more determined team that day, i felt last year they stepped it up a notch in terms of intimidation. ferghal doc was subjected to some very crude challenges of the the ball that day, and he did react and struck clerkin i think it was and should have walked. thats one thing that would worry me about doc, last year against monaghan and donegal he reacted, and i feel opponents will now set out to wind him up. there were also numerous other off the ball incidents and to be honest too many of out players did not want it enough.
considering we had lockhart, mccusker, cartin, mick mcgoldrick, patsy bradley and muldoon all unavailable for sunday, and given our lack of fight in 07 and 08, i am delighted we won on sunday.
it wasnt pretty but it was effective. yes at times players over stepped the mark, but id rather players fought for the cause instead of bottling out of challenges. we played off the cuff against monaghan in 07 and 08, tried to play attacking football and it didnt work. sunday was all about the result.
i hope we can expand our game the next day against tyrone or armagh and concentrate more on the football as we are capable of better. but as long as we show the determination we did on sunday, then i reckon thats half the battle.
Quote from: Oldhacker on May 28, 2009, 08:51:04 PM
Joe Brolly was on the Des Cahiill programme on RTE radio one tonight putting forward was sounded suspiciously like a legal defence for Fergal Doherty when he appears on the expected charges. I missed the start, as I was driving, but, after patronising Dick Clerkin, and saying he could sometimes be an effective midfielder, Brolly went on to put the entire blame for the trouble on the Monaghan man.
According to Brolly, Clerkin was well known for his antics and Darragh O'Se had come off early in a Railway Cup game in protest over his behaviour. Brolly said that Doherty has stud marks on his face and his chest, and had to put up with intolerable intimidation from the start of the game until his red card.
Cahill challenged Brolly on Doherty's own conduct, but Brolly claimed that Doherty had only been letting Clerkin know he was there by flicking at his heels and did not deserve any further punishment.
As a neutral, watching on tv, it seemed to me that Monaghan have more than a little form in this regard but Derry's lost of discipline was probably greater on the day.
It would be very difficult to say who threw the first blow between Doherty and Clerkin, but both were clearly at fault in the incident when they each received yellow cards and Doherty's fingers were far too close to Clerkin's eyes as they tangled on the ground.
Doherty committed another foul on a different Monaghan player shortly afterwards and could easily have got his second yellow at that stage.
In the second half, Clerkin appeared to throw an arm at Doherty but Doherty responded with what were fairly clearly a couple of ankle kicks rather than what might be described as flicks.
As the referee missed this confrontation, it can be expected to form the main part of any post-match investigation. I doubt if Brolly's explanation will get Doherty off, but we should find out fairly shortly.
I think you'll find Gary Mc Quaid ( I think ) had Fergal's stud marks on his back after he tramped over him whilst on the ground. These studs were liberally used on Sunday by both sides it seems.
Quote from: Oldhacker on May 28, 2009, 08:51:04 PM
Joe Brolly was on the Des Cahiill programme on RTE radio one tonight putting forward was sounded suspiciously like a legal defence for Fergal Doherty when he appears on the expected charges. I missed the start, as I was driving, but, after patronising Dick Clerkin, and saying he could sometimes be an effective midfielder, Brolly went on to put the entire blame for the trouble on the Monaghan man.
;D ;D
About as likely a story as from the police giving an account of how the prisoner fell from the 4th floor window.
Derry have not stopped squealing "he made me do it".
Are Derry people not embarrassed by this emasculated idiot?
Quote from: Main Street on May 29, 2009, 01:46:44 AM
Quote from: Oldhacker on May 28, 2009, 08:51:04 PM
Joe Brolly was on the Des Cahiill programme on RTE radio one tonight putting forward was sounded suspiciously like a legal defence for Fergal Doherty when he appears on the expected charges. I missed the start, as I was driving, but, after patronising Dick Clerkin, and saying he could sometimes be an effective midfielder, Brolly went on to put the entire blame for the trouble on the Monaghan man.
;D ;D
About as likely a story as from the police giving an account of how the prisoner fell from the 4th floor window.
Derry have not stopped squealing "he made me do it".
Are Derry people not embarrassed by this emasculated idiot?
Not one bit, I think Joseph is a fine ambassador for the oak leaf county.
Why would we be embarrassed? What exactly is it that makes you call a barrister an idiot?
Quote from: southderryman on May 28, 2009, 09:55:19 PM
cant be bothered reading the whole thread. what i will say is that i am proud of the way derry stood up to the challenge on sunday. yes there were nasty incidents, and some players on both sides went way over the top, but after the past 2 years against monaghan i'm glad derry stood up to the physical challenge from monaghan.
2007 we were well beaten, a late goal and 2 points put a decent look on the scoreboard. while we were outplayed and out fought by a hungier and more determined team that day, i felt last year they stepped it up a notch in terms of intimidation. ferghal doc was subjected to some very crude challenges of the the ball that day, and he did react and struck clerkin i think it was and should have walked. thats one thing that would worry me about doc, last year against monaghan and donegal he reacted, and i feel opponents will now set out to wind him up. there were also numerous other off the ball incidents and to be honest too many of out players did not want it enough.
considering we had lockhart, mccusker, cartin, mick mcgoldrick, patsy bradley and muldoon all unavailable for sunday, and given our lack of fight in 07 and 08, i am delighted we won on sunday.
it wasnt pretty but it was effective. yes at times players over stepped the mark, but id rather players fought for the cause instead of bottling out of challenges. we played off the cuff against monaghan in 07 and 08, tried to play attacking football and it didnt work. sunday was all about the result.
i hope we can expand our game the next day against tyrone or armagh and concentrate more on the football as we are capable of better. but as long as we show the determination we did on sunday, then i reckon thats half the battle.
wots that about????
Quote from: Main Street on May 29, 2009, 01:46:44 AM
Quote from: Oldhacker on May 28, 2009, 08:51:04 PM
Joe Brolly was on the Des Cahiill programme on RTE radio one tonight putting forward was sounded suspiciously like a legal defence for Fergal Doherty when he appears on the expected charges. I missed the start, as I was driving, but, after patronising Dick Clerkin, and saying he could sometimes be an effective midfielder, Brolly went on to put the entire blame for the trouble on the Monaghan man.
;D ;D
About as likely a story as from the police giving an account of how the prisoner fell from the 4th floor window.
Derry have not stopped squealing "he made me do it".
Are Derry people not embarrassed by this emasculated idiot?
To be honest, unlike Tohill, I find Brolly very entertaining as a pundit, but both are unable to comment objectively on games involving Derry.
Quote from: southderryman on May 28, 2009, 09:55:19 PM
2007 we were well beaten, a late goal and 2 points put a decent look on the scoreboard. while we were outplayed and out fought by a hungier and more determined team that day, i felt last year they stepped it up a notch in terms of intimidation. ferghal doc was subjected to some very crude challenges of the the ball that day, and he did react and struck clerkin i think it was and should have walked. thats one thing that would worry me about doc, last year against monaghan and donegal he reacted, and i feel opponents will now set out to wind him up.
You're off message there - Sunday was (apparently) totally out of character.
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 29, 2009, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 29, 2009, 01:46:44 AM
Quote from: Oldhacker on May 28, 2009, 08:51:04 PM
Joe Brolly was on the Des Cahiill programme on RTE radio one tonight putting forward was sounded suspiciously like a legal defence for Fergal Doherty when he appears on the expected charges. I missed the start, as I was driving, but, after patronising Dick Clerkin, and saying he could sometimes be an effective midfielder, Brolly went on to put the entire blame for the trouble on the Monaghan man.
;D ;D
About as likely a story as from the police giving an account of how the prisoner fell from the 4th floor window.
Derry have not stopped squealing "he made me do it".
Are Derry people not embarrassed by this emasculated idiot?
Not one bit, I think Joseph is a fine ambassador for the oak leaf county.
Why would we be embarrassed? What exactly is it that makes you call a barrister an idiot?
idiotic?
His idiotic "they made us do it" defense.
Embarrassment?
Squealing "they made me do it, your honour"
Other than his immature justifications, his incapability of recognising responsibility for the actions of his own team, I don't mind Brolly at all.
If Derry play dirthy, then fine, that's what they felt they had to do to match Monaghan.
From a Monaghan point of view, it's just that Derry looked clumsy doing it.
Did they have to do it, imo they didn't, other good teams didn't have to, they could stand their ground and outplay Monaghan.
As for CCCC I don't think there should be any post match punishments dished out, not even for the idiot who faked getting hit.
Doherty's kick did not do any damage and he got himself sent off anyway.
Imo, there was nothing that happened in that game that was worthy of any further sanctions.
Quote from: southoftheborder on May 29, 2009, 11:14:32 AM
Quote from: southderryman on May 28, 2009, 09:55:19 PM
cant be bothered reading the whole thread. what i will say is that i am proud of the way derry stood up to the challenge on sunday. yes there were nasty incidents, and some players on both sides went way over the top, but after the past 2 years against monaghan i'm glad derry stood up to the physical challenge from monaghan.
2007 we were well beaten, a late goal and 2 points put a decent look on the scoreboard. while we were outplayed and out fought by a hungier and more determined team that day, i felt last year they stepped it up a notch in terms of intimidation. ferghal doc was subjected to some very crude challenges of the the ball that day, and he did react and struck clerkin i think it was and should have walked. thats one thing that would worry me about doc, last year against monaghan and donegal he reacted, and i feel opponents will now set out to wind him up. there were also numerous other off the ball incidents and to be honest too many of out players did not want it enough.
considering we had lockhart, mccusker, cartin, mick mcgoldrick, patsy bradley and muldoon all unavailable for sunday, and given our lack of fight in 07 and 08, i am delighted we won on sunday.
it wasnt pretty but it was effective. yes at times players over stepped the mark, but id rather players fought for the cause instead of bottling out of challenges. we played off the cuff against monaghan in 07 and 08, tried to play attacking football and it didnt work. sunday was all about the result.
i hope we can expand our game the next day against tyrone or armagh and concentrate more on the football as we are capable of better. but as long as we show the determination we did on sunday, then i reckon thats half the battle.
wots that about????
Think he means Michael Mc Goldrick from Bellaghy, not sure if he's even in the country at the mo or of he is coming back to the panel. He would be a welcome addition excellent Man marker.
Quote from: Main Street on May 29, 2009, 02:52:26 PM
Imo, there was nothing that happened in that game that was worthy of any further sanctions.
Not even the knee to the groin? If not then presumably you think that McMenamin and McGuigan shouldn't have been sanctioned earlier in the year?
Quote from: Main Street on May 29, 2009, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 29, 2009, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 29, 2009, 01:46:44 AM
Quote from: Oldhacker on May 28, 2009, 08:51:04 PM
Joe Brolly was on the Des Cahiill programme on RTE radio one tonight putting forward was sounded suspiciously like a legal defence for Fergal Doherty when he appears on the expected charges. I missed the start, as I was driving, but, after patronising Dick Clerkin, and saying he could sometimes be an effective midfielder, Brolly went on to put the entire blame for the trouble on the Monaghan man.
;D ;D
About as likely a story as from the police giving an account of how the prisoner fell from the 4th floor window.
Derry have not stopped squealing "he made me do it".
Are Derry people not embarrassed by this emasculated idiot?
Not one bit, I think Joseph is a fine ambassador for the oak leaf county.
Why would we be embarrassed? What exactly is it that makes you call a barrister an idiot?
idiotic?
His idiotic "they made us do it" defense.
Embarrassment?
Squealing "they made me do it, your honour"
Other than his immature justifications, his incapability of recognising responsibility for the actions of his own team, I don't mind Brolly at all.
If Derry play dirthy, then fine, that's what they felt they had to do to match Monaghan.
From a Monaghan point of view, it's just that Derry looked clumsy doing it.
Did they have to do it, imo they didn't, other good teams didn't have to, they could stand their ground and outplay Monaghan.
As for CCCC I don't think there should be any post match punishments dished out, not even for the idiot who faked getting hit.
Doherty's kick did not do any damage and he got himself sent off anyway.
Imo, there was nothing that happened in that game that was worthy of any further sanctions.
1) I don't think Brolly is embarrassing anyone with his comments.
2) There is a difference between saying something idiotic and being an idiot. I'm sure you will now agree that Brolly is certainly not the latter. What were Joe's exact words? Did he actually say "they made us do it" or are you making up your own version to suit your theory of him being an idiot?
As for no more suspensions etc being handed out I would be a hypocrite if I said I agreed. Mullan is ruined and rightly so, Doc could be in trouble too. Whether or not he hurt Clerkin is irrelevant.
Brilliant article by Brolly in today's paper
Can you post it ONeill?
Quote from: ONeill on May 29, 2009, 05:42:53 PM
Brilliant article by Brolly in today's paper
It is isn't it. Shows up the pundits like Spillane and O Rourke for taking the moral high ground exactly for the hypocrites that they are.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on May 29, 2009, 05:50:31 PM
Can you post it ONeill?
I'm not sure if it's up on the web yet, usually midweek or so before they appear on the GL website.
Quote from: SidelineKick on May 29, 2009, 04:16:37 PM
1) I don't think Brolly is embarrassing anyone with his comments.
Fair enough. I would be embrassed by such a juvenile idiotic defense.
Quote2) There is a difference between saying something idiotic and being an idiot. I'm sure you will now agree that Brolly is certainly not the latter.
You are correct, I should have written that he made an idiotic comment rather than being an idiot for making such a comment.
QuoteWhat were Joe's exact words? Did he actually say "they made us do it" or are you making up your own version to suit your theory of him being an idiot?
I can't give an exact quote, I just heard him on Rte radio sports, the jist of his defense was Clerkin made him do it, my listening ability is better than my recall.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 29, 2009, 03:56:29 PM
Not even the knee to the groin? If not then presumably you think that McMenamin and McGuigan shouldn't have been sanctioned earlier in the year?
I didn't see that game, presumably televised, caught on camera, much shock horror by the pundits.
Fundamentally I do not agree with incidents caught on RTE cameras, the highlight of much criticism by the outraged panellites, then becoming the selective focus of the CCCC.
Video evidence is good when it comes to determining the extent of a red card, like with McQuaid last year.
But are the CCCC being led by the nose when they only focus on RTE highlights? I think so.
Either they they look at all the game from all the angles or not all.
Quote from: southoftheborder on May 29, 2009, 11:14:32 AM
Quote from: southderryman on May 28, 2009, 09:55:19 PM
cant be bothered reading the whole thread. what i will say is that i am proud of the way derry stood up to the challenge on sunday. yes there were nasty incidents, and some players on both sides went way over the top, but after the past 2 years against monaghan i'm glad derry stood up to the physical challenge from monaghan.
2007 we were well beaten, a late goal and 2 points put a decent look on the scoreboard. while we were outplayed and out fought by a hungier and more determined team that day, i felt last year they stepped it up a notch in terms of intimidation. ferghal doc was subjected to some very crude challenges of the the ball that day, and he did react and struck clerkin i think it was and should have walked. thats one thing that would worry me about doc, last year against monaghan and donegal he reacted, and i feel opponents will now set out to wind him up. there were also numerous other off the ball incidents and to be honest too many of out players did not want it enough.
considering we had lockhart, mccusker, cartin, mick mcgoldrick, patsy bradley and muldoon all unavailable for sunday, and given our lack of fight in 07 and 08, i am delighted we won on sunday.
it wasnt pretty but it was effective. yes at times players over stepped the mark, but id rather players fought for the cause instead of bottling out of challenges. we played off the cuff against monaghan in 07 and 08, tried to play attacking football and it didnt work. sunday was all about the result.
i hope we can expand our game the next day against tyrone or armagh and concentrate more on the football as we are capable of better. but as long as we show the determination we did on sunday, then i reckon thats half the battle.
wots that about????
mickey mcgoldrick from bellaghy. great wee defender, excellent in 07 and was out injured last year, not at much luck with the hamstring and cant seem to stay fit. currently taking a break in oz as far as i know, would be a definite starter on our team.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 29, 2009, 01:03:52 PM
Quote from: southderryman on May 28, 2009, 09:55:19 PM
2007 we were well beaten, a late goal and 2 points put a decent look on the scoreboard. while we were outplayed and out fought by a hungier and more determined team that day, i felt last year they stepped it up a notch in terms of intimidation. ferghal doc was subjected to some very crude challenges of the the ball that day, and he did react and struck clerkin i think it was and should have walked. thats one thing that would worry me about doc, last year against monaghan and donegal he reacted, and i feel opponents will now set out to wind him up.
You're off message there - Sunday was (apparently) totally out of character.
fergal doherty is very committed and honest footballer. and if he was allowed to get on with it is more than a match for any midfielder in ireland using fair means.
on sunday, for the 3rd year in a row monaghan, and in particular, dick clerkin set out to niggle and foul and generally do anything to stop him. he lost it on sunday to be fair and could have been sent off on any 1 of 3 occasions, i dont condone what he did, but i can certainly understand it.
refs will probably be watching fergal more closely from now on after the events on sunday, and im happy enough with that as it will offer him more protection from limited footballers with a clear agenda of stopping him playing rather than attempting to play themselves.
i wouldnt say sunday is completely out of character of him, as he has previous on 2 occasions. but fergal doherty does not go out to hit or scrap with men off the ball. he doesnt need to. what he needs to do is learn to curb his temper and not become involved when players attempt to get at him and wind him, easier said than done i know, but if he doesnt then most teams will use this to their advantage.
doherty is a big player for us, and while we ground out a win on sunday after he was sent off, we cant afford to be without him, especially in big games. i fear he'll now miss the tyrone/armagh game and will be a huge loss if he does.
Just bumping this us to see if anyone has the Joe Brolly Article from the GL.
Joe certainly went to town in the Gaelic Life, but I would have to say he used a lot of the barrister's tools when writing his column. He used multiple incidents as illustrations but didn't contextualise any of them.He went through the television pundits and gave instances to show them as hypocrites,however, he failed to mention Martin Mc Hugh all-together, and, when it came to Jarlath Burns, he said his were the most nauseating comments but they didn't matter because no-one watches the BBC. Would it be the case that these two would have to be acknowledged as two of the most sporting players of their generation? His 'damnation' of Spillane and O'Rourke consisted of incidents involving their team-mates, the 'sins of my brother' comes to mind.If I am correct, Joe Kernan didn't laugh at himand say he never fought on the field in his life.It was said in a Q&A session when Brolly was stealing the show and banter would have been the most appropriate term for the exchange.My memory of the '06 quarter-final doesn't include any 'incessant bad mouthing' of Kieran Donaghy by Paul Hearty,but rather one exchange in the first-half to which Donaghy responded when he scored his goal in the second.For Joe to flag up anyone for 'sledging' is just about as hypocritical as it gets, considering his blowing kisses was designed to humiliate and goad, not only the opposing team but their supporters as well! To say that John Toal 'came onto the field and threw a flurry of punches' is also a misrepresentation.He was on the field and he and Galvin were involved in a confrontation in which a few punches were thrown,Galvin got a quare eye out of it(see it at 'Paul Galvinv Armagh'Youtube).
To use incidents from the past to excuse something that happens today does not stand up(we've always walked the traditional route)!I think Mickey Harte was right in his column in the Irish News when he said that Athony Tohill got it right.I have no doubt that there was some over-reaction, but Joe pushing it all on to Monaghan and Dick Clerkin, and him,Paddy Heaney and Kevin Madden saying 'what did you expect' is just plain wrong!
The upshoot:
Fergal Doherty eight weeks
Brian Mullan eight weeks
Tommy Freeman eight weeks
Monaghan and Derry fined ten grand each (euro) for "disruptive play". This could run a while.
Sure how can kevin madden turn round and criticise his own set up ???
Also i think paddy heaney presented another side to the argument without setting out a reactive defence to the game and was quite right to.
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 31, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
The upshoot:
Fergal Doherty eight weeks
That's a disgrace.
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 31, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
The upshoot:
Fergal Doherty eight weeks
Brian Mullan eight weeks
Tommy Freeman eight weeks
Monaghan and Derry fined ten grand each (euro) for "disruptive play". This could run a while.
Is this your guess or the actual penalties?
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 31, 2009, 08:29:17 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 31, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
The upshoot:
Fergal Doherty eight weeks
Brian Mullan eight weeks
Tommy Freeman eight weeks
Monaghan and Derry fined ten grand each (euro) for "disruptive play". This could run a while.
Is this your guess or the actual penalties?
Wild specific for a guess!
Quote from: whiskeysteve on May 31, 2009, 08:34:59 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 31, 2009, 08:29:17 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 31, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
The upshoot:
Fergal Doherty eight weeks
Brian Mullan eight weeks
Tommy Freeman eight weeks
Monaghan and Derry fined ten grand each (euro) for "disruptive play". This could run a while.
Is this your guess or the actual penalties?
Wild specific for a guess!
But I haven't seen it anywhere on the internet or that. When was it decided?
Over weekend by CCCC. Monaghan were told yesterday.
General consensus then than Monaghan are f***cked in next game unless they get a good draw?
Hopefully we'll have Muldoon and Bradley back for midfield, on the bright side if Fergal's absence in the game v Monaghan is anything to go by it could be a blessing! ;)
Strange that all 3 players get the same length of ban - some are clearly more serious than others. No doubt we'll have some appeals.
Also, this idea of weeks rather than games is a bit ridiculous. As it stands, Freeman would miss 3 games - rounds 1-3 of the qualifiers. If Derry were to beat Tyrone, Doherty and Mullan would only miss one game (although if they lose, they'd miss the Tyrone game and rounds 2 and 3 of the qualifiers)...
Why didnt Mullan get the same suspension as Tommy McGuigan? ??? ???
Mullan should got 8 months
Which of the incidents is Tommy getting banned for?
Quote from: INDIANA on May 31, 2009, 10:36:48 PM
Mullan should got 8 months
Thats consistent then with regards Mc Guigan and Ricey...
Quote from: hardstation on May 31, 2009, 10:38:54 PM
Quote from: Doire abú on May 31, 2009, 10:34:41 PM
Why didnt Mullan get the same suspension as Tommy McGuigan? ??? ???
Why wasn't Monaghan's negative style of play considered when Doc's and Mullan's suspensions were handed out? Disgrace!!
:D
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 31, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
Monaghan and Derry fined ten grand each (euro) for "disruptive play". This could run a while.
Has this ever happened before? Sounds ridiculous. If a player breaks the rules, then sanction them - if 15 players on each team break the rules, sanction all of them, but why should you sanction full teams? Has Spillane joined the CCCCCCC?
Quote from: Doire abú on May 31, 2009, 10:46:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 31, 2009, 10:36:48 PM
Mullan should got 8 months
You're some craic! :D
Its true though- pure filth it was. Lowest of the low on a Gaa pitch.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 31, 2009, 11:07:07 PM
Quote from: Doire abú on May 31, 2009, 10:46:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 31, 2009, 10:36:48 PM
Mullan should got 8 months
You're some craic! :D
Its true though- pure filth it was. Lowest of the low on a Gaa pitch.
Nobody is disputing this, but let us not forget who started the trend...
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 31, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
The upshoot:
Fergal Doherty eight weeks
Brian Mullan eight weeks
Tommy Freeman eight weeks
Monaghan and Derry fined ten grand each (euro) for "disruptive play". This could run a while.
What did freeman get that suspension for????
Quote from: Oakleafer93 on May 31, 2009, 11:15:42 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 31, 2009, 11:07:07 PM
Quote from: Doire abú on May 31, 2009, 10:46:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 31, 2009, 10:36:48 PM
Mullan should got 8 months
You're some craic! :D
Its true though- pure filth it was. Lowest of the low on a Gaa pitch.
Nobody is disputing this, but let us not forget who started the trend...
Vinny Jones ?
Quote from: donelli on June 03, 2009, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 31, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
The upshoot:
Fergal Doherty eight weeks
Brian Mullan eight weeks
Tommy Freeman eight weeks
Monaghan and Derry fined ten grand each (euro) for "disruptive play". This could run a while.
What did freeman get that suspension for????
To balance things out.
Thats consistent then with regards Mc Guigan and Ricey...
[/quote]
There was a whole thread dedicated here to riceys ball grabbing incident, if consistant should have been one dedicated to Mullan also
Ricey has previous and is general a little rogue on the pitch, suprised there was only one thread dedicated to him.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 03, 2009, 12:38:14 PM
Quote from: donelli on June 03, 2009, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 31, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
The upshoot:
Fergal Doherty eight weeks
Brian Mullan eight weeks
Tommy Freeman eight weeks
Monaghan and Derry fined ten grand each (euro) for "disruptive play". This could run a while.
What did freeman get that suspension for????
To balance things out.
Quite possibly.....but more likely it was for the headbut on Kevin McGuckian.
Alos I see there was no mention of Dick's knee to Docs ribs....but sure he's a good clean player anyway.
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 03, 2009, 01:05:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 03, 2009, 12:38:14 PM
Quote from: donelli on June 03, 2009, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 31, 2009, 08:18:27 PM
The upshoot:
Fergal Doherty eight weeks
Brian Mullan eight weeks
Tommy Freeman eight weeks
Monaghan and Derry fined ten grand each (euro) for "disruptive play". This could run a while.
What did freeman get that suspension for????
To balance things out.
Quite possibly.....but more likely it was for the headbut on Kevin McGuckian.
Alos I see there was no mention of Dick's knee to Docs ribs....but sure he's a good clean player anyway.
headbutt?
Was at the game and i seen no headbutt thrown by either team.???
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
The hypocrisy in that statement has to be seen to be believed.
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
McGuckin didn't go down because he wasn't touched.
Are you Derry wans not fed up yet pleading the innocent victims because everybody else is fed up listening to ye
Quote from: tyronefan on June 03, 2009, 03:11:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
McGuckin didn't go down because he wasn't touched.
Are you Derry wans not fed up yet pleading the innocent victims because everybody else is fed up listening to ye
Unlike McKaigue who did his best Aidan O'Mahoney impression.
7.5/10!!!
Quote from: Bensars on June 03, 2009, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
The hypocrisy in that statement has to be seen to be believed.
What's wrong with the statement Bensars? Mullan committed the crime and got an appropriate ban therefore Derry aren't appealing it. Doherty did commit the crimes they charged him of but was given the maximum sentence rather than the minimum. Our County Board are not trying to get him off on a technicality but using the system as it was intended. I think it should be highlighted that Derry are taking their punishment and a few other counties should take note rather than appealing every single red card they get on technical grounds!
Quote from: tyronefan on June 03, 2009, 03:11:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
McGuckin didn't go down because he wasn't touched.
Are you Derry wans not fed up yet pleading the innocent victims because everybody else is fed up listening to ye
Stay out of the Derry v Monaghan thread then.
Have to agree with screenexile on this one - good to see that Derry aren't taking this to the DRA, High Courts etc. Other county's have totally exhausted this process at every turn around instead of accepting their medicine.
I'm still not quite sure how Mullan got eight weeks when a similar incident earlier in the year only warranted a four week ban. Which was appealed of course, in keeping with the form expected from that particular county.
Quote from: tyronefan on June 03, 2009, 03:11:48 PM
McGuckin didn't go down because he wasn't touched.
Are you Derry wans not fed up yet pleading the innocent victims because everybody else is fed up listening to ye
Are you Tyrone ones not fed up telling lies
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 03, 2009, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 03, 2009, 03:11:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
McGuckin didn't go down because he wasn't touched.
Are you Derry wans not fed up yet pleading the innocent victims because everybody else is fed up listening to ye
Stay out of the Derry v Monaghan thread then.
Have to agree with screenexile on this one - good to see that Derry aren't taking this to the DRA, High Courts etc. Other county's have totally exhausted this process at every turn around instead of accepting their medicine.
I'm still not quite sure how Mullan got eight weeks when a similar incident earlier in the year only warranted a four week ban. Which was appealed of course, in keeping with the form expected from that particular county.
This has to be something to do with the referee's report....that's all I can think of anyway.
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 03:23:04 PM
Quote from: Bensars on June 03, 2009, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
The hypocrisy in that statement has to be seen to be believed.
What's wrong with the statement Bensars? Mullan committed the crime and got an appropriate ban therefore Derry aren't appealing it. Doherty did commit the crimes they charged him of but was given the maximum sentence rather than the minimum. Our County Board are not trying to get him off on a technicality but using the system as it was intended. I think it should be highlighted that Derry are taking their punishment and a few other counties should take note rather than appealing every single red card they get on technical grounds!
A cynic would say that they're not appealing Mullan's suspension because:
a) He's not as important to the team as Doherty; and
b) It gives more credibility to Doherty's appeal.
Thankfully i'm not a cynic.
But seriously, they aren't appealing Mullan's ban because the incident was indefensible. Tyrone should have taken the same approach to the 'groin incidents' earlier in the year.
Doherty SHOULD have appealed last years though
Quote from: JMohan on June 03, 2009, 08:26:53 PM
Doherty SHOULD have appealed last years though
No he shouldn't, it was a clear slap with the back of his hand.
It was completely - you'd see worse contact in a shopping isle in Tesco's
Quote from: JMohan on June 03, 2009, 08:26:53 PM
Doherty SHOULD have appealed last years though
Fergal has turned into a serial offender in the Ulster championship.
Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2009, 11:17:00 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 03, 2009, 08:26:53 PM
Doherty SHOULD have appealed last years though
Fergal has turned into a serial offender in the Ulster championship.
Dont say that they might start crying again!
Tommy Freeman lost his appeal against his 8-week ban.
Doherty having his case heard tonight.
Quote from: tyrone exile on June 03, 2009, 11:55:50 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2009, 11:17:00 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 03, 2009, 08:26:53 PM
Doherty SHOULD have appealed last years though
Fergal has turned into a serial offender in the Ulster championship.
Dont say that they might start crying again!
I wonder how many games in we will be this year before we see Sean "Dry Your Eyes" Cavanagh blubbering on the field of play again?
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
Contrary to reports, Derry forward Brian Mullan will be contesting his proposed eight-week ban.
It was widely believed that Mullan would be accepting his suspension arising out of an incident involving Monaghan's Conor McManus during the Ulster SFC clash at Celtic Park on May 24, but it has now emerged that Derry officials are looking to have the banned halved.
Mullan will now accompany team-mate Fergal Doherty to Croke Park tonight to appear before the Central Hearings Committee in a bid to have their bans reduced. Doherty was also proposed for an eight-week ban following an incident involving Monaghan's Dick Clerkin in the same game.
Both players are out of Sunday week's Ulster SFC semi-final against Tyrone, and would also miss the Ulster final in the event of Derry overcoming the All-Ireland champions, unless they get their bans reduced.
Derry will also contest the hefty EUR10,000 fine they were hit with following the Monaghan clash. Lol. Dont really think Anything else should be added!!!
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 10, 2009, 11:09:42 AM
Quote from: tyrone exile on June 03, 2009, 11:55:50 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2009, 11:17:00 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 03, 2009, 08:26:53 PM
Doherty SHOULD have appealed last years though
Fergal has turned into a serial offender in the Ulster championship.
Dont say that they might start crying again!
I wonder how many games in we will be this year before we see Sean "Dry Your Eyes" Cavanagh blubbering on the field of play again?
[/b]
How many games will it be before we see the real enda "i am a top class footballer" muldoon have a decent game for derry
or
will he continually be known outside of derry as a plodder???
Quote from: Final Whistle on June 10, 2009, 03:21:20 PM
Contrary to reports, Derry forward Brian Mullan will be contesting his proposed eight-week ban.
It was widely believed that Mullan would be accepting his suspension arising out of an incident involving Monaghan's Conor McManus during the Ulster SFC clash at Celtic Park on May 24, but it has now emerged that Derry officials are looking to have the banned halved.
Mullan will now accompany team-mate Fergal Doherty to Croke Park tonight to appear before the Central Hearings Committee in a bid to have their bans reduced. Doherty was also proposed for an eight-week ban following an incident involving Monaghan's Dick Clerkin in the same game.
Both players are out of Sunday week's Ulster SFC semi-final against Tyrone, and would also miss the Ulster final in the event of Derry overcoming the All-Ireland champions, unless they get their bans reduced.
Derry will also contest the hefty EUR10,000 fine they were hit with following the Monaghan clash.
Lol. Dont really think Anything else should be added!!!
A source perhaps!
derry have some neck appealing Mullan's suspension- I mean whats the defence- that perhapd he only connected with one testicle instead of two. Disgraceful.
IF this is true, i await with great anticipation the response from screenexile,
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 03:23:04 PM
Quote from: Bensars on June 03, 2009, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
The hypocrisy in that statement has to be seen to be believed.
What's wrong with the statement Bensars? Mullan committed the crime and got an appropriate ban therefore Derry aren't appealing it. Doherty did commit the crimes they charged him of but was given the maximum sentence rather than the minimum. Our County Board are not trying to get him off on a technicality but using the system as it was intended. I think it should be highlighted that Derry are taking their punishment and a few other counties should take note rather than appealing every single red card they get on technical grounds!
Quote from: Final Whistle on June 10, 2009, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 10, 2009, 11:09:42 AM
Quote from: tyrone exile on June 03, 2009, 11:55:50 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2009, 11:17:00 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 03, 2009, 08:26:53 PM
Doherty SHOULD have appealed last years though
Fergal has turned into a serial offender in the Ulster championship.
Dont say that they might start crying again!
I wonder how many games in we will be this year before we see Sean "Dry Your Eyes" Cavanagh blubbering on the field of play again?
[/b]
How many games will it be before we see the real enda "i am a top class footballer" muldoon have a decent game for derry
or
will he continually be known outside of derry as a plodder???
I am certainly no Derry fan but Muldoon is far from a plodder, a class act.
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 10, 2009, 11:09:42 AM
Quote from: tyrone exile on June 03, 2009, 11:55:50 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2009, 11:17:00 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 03, 2009, 08:26:53 PM
Doherty SHOULD have appealed last years though
Fergal has turned into a serial offender in the Ulster championship.
Dont say that they might start crying again!
I wonder how many games in we will be this year before we see Sean "Dry Your Eyes" Cavanagh blubbering on the field of play again?
That's right, he was actually bawling his eyes out!! :D :D :D Must've been some injury.
Poor wee Sean... he was crying at an umpire also earlier this year when he had the cheek to report wee Colm to the referee.
Must be very emotional year for the big man-3rd senior all-ireland(more than the derry squad posess), 4th allstar, 0-5 in the AI Final, Man of Match in said all-ireland!! Id cry too!!
You know what you Derry Wans problems is-too uptight, relax and let it all out!!!
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 09:07:00 AM
Tommy Freeman lost his appeal against his 8-week ban.
Doherty having his case heard tonight.
Have to laugh at the Monaghan Chairman saying how Tommay was never red carded in his life ...
Tommy Freeman has seen more Red Cards than almost any other footballer on that County team - he's got more cards than Hallmark
Quote from: INDIANA on June 10, 2009, 03:29:29 PM
derry have some neck appealing Mullan's suspension- I mean whats the defence- that perhapd he only connected with one testicle instead of two. Disgraceful.
Yeah I've checked all the major news sites and there is no mention of this story so take it easy there for a minute Indiana!!
As I've said before Mullan has no defence and I would be extremely disappointed if our CB decide to go down this path. We should just take the punishment and move on.
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2009, 04:36:25 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 10, 2009, 03:29:29 PM
derry have some neck appealing Mullan's suspension- I mean whats the defence- that perhapd he only connected with one testicle instead of two. Disgraceful.
Yeah I've checked all the major news sites and there is no mention of this story so take it easy there for a minute Indiana!!
As I've said before Mullan has no defence and I would be extremely disappointed if our CB decide to go down this path. We should just take the punishment and move on.
Maybe they feel it is only worth 4 weeks though.
What did Tommy McGuigan get?
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 10, 2009, 04:50:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2009, 04:36:25 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 10, 2009, 03:29:29 PM
derry have some neck appealing Mullan's suspension- I mean whats the defence- that perhapd he only connected with one testicle instead of two. Disgraceful.
Yeah I've checked all the major news sites and there is no mention of this story so take it easy there for a minute Indiana!!
As I've said before Mullan has no defence and I would be extremely disappointed if our CB decide to go down this path. We should just take the punishment and move on.
Maybe they feel it is only worth 4 weeks though.
What did Tommy McGuigan get?
4 weeks also.
Unless they fell Mullan's was more dangerous as it looked more forceful than Tommy's incident. Still a knee to the groin though for both and deserve same punishment.
This is definitely true, Brian Mullan's ban [the length of it] is being appealed. I cannot quote a 'news' source for this but it is definitely true.
I agree that this should be appealed as 8 weeks is too long given the length of bans for another similar recent offence.
Quote from: JMohan on June 10, 2009, 04:25:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 09:07:00 AM
Tommy Freeman lost his appeal against his 8-week ban.
Doherty having his case heard tonight.
Have to laugh at the Monaghan Chairman saying how Tommay was never red carded in his life ...
Tommy Freeman has seen more Red Cards than almost any other footballer on that County team - he's got more cards than Hallmark
Can you list them?
when Ricey appealed his ban was doubled
I hope the same happens here
Quote from: tyronefan on June 10, 2009, 08:07:43 PM
when Ricey appealed his ban was doubled
I hope the same happens here
Ricey got 6 weeks at start. Appealed as normal suspensions are in multiples of 4 weeks e.g 4 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 weeks etc. Got another 2 weeks for his troubles.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 10, 2009, 05:24:57 PM
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 10, 2009, 04:50:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2009, 04:36:25 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 10, 2009, 03:29:29 PM
derry have some neck appealing Mullan's suspension- I mean whats the defence- that perhapd he only connected with one testicle instead of two. Disgraceful.
Yeah I've checked all the major news sites and there is no mention of this story so take it easy there for a minute Indiana!!
As I've said before Mullan has no defence and I would be extremely disappointed if our CB decide to go down this path. We should just take the punishment and move on.
Maybe they feel it is only worth 4 weeks though.
What did Tommy McGuigan get?
4 weeks also.
Unless they fell Mullan's was more dangerous as it looked more forceful than Tommy's incident. Still a knee to the groin though for both and deserve same punishment.
what Mullin did was a lot worse than what either Ricey or Tommy done.
Quote from: tyronefan on June 10, 2009, 08:27:41 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 10, 2009, 05:24:57 PM
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 10, 2009, 04:50:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2009, 04:36:25 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 10, 2009, 03:29:29 PM
derry have some neck appealing Mullan's suspension- I mean whats the defence- that perhapd he only connected with one testicle instead of two. Disgraceful.
Yeah I've checked all the major news sites and there is no mention of this story so take it easy there for a minute Indiana!!
As I've said before Mullan has no defence and I would be extremely disappointed if our CB decide to go down this path. We should just take the punishment and move on.
Maybe they feel it is only worth 4 weeks though.
What did Tommy McGuigan get?
4 weeks also.
Unless they fell Mullan's was more dangerous as it looked more forceful than Tommy's incident. Still a knee to the groin though for both and deserve same punishment.
what Mullin did was a lot worse than what either Ricey or Tommy done.
Looked like it but Tommy and Brian Mullan still kneed to the groin area, doesnt matter which looked worse or not, and im not sure what to class Ricey's as but all 3 should have warranted 4 weeks suspensions.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 10, 2009, 08:35:40 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 10, 2009, 08:27:41 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 10, 2009, 05:24:57 PM
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 10, 2009, 04:50:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2009, 04:36:25 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 10, 2009, 03:29:29 PM
derry have some neck appealing Mullan's suspension- I mean whats the defence- that perhapd he only connected with one testicle instead of two. Disgraceful.
Yeah I've checked all the major news sites and there is no mention of this story so take it easy there for a minute Indiana!!
As I've said before Mullan has no defence and I would be extremely disappointed if our CB decide to go down this path. We should just take the punishment and move on.
Maybe they feel it is only worth 4 weeks though.
What did Tommy McGuigan get?
4 weeks also.
Unless they fell Mullan's was more dangerous as it looked more forceful than Tommy's incident. Still a knee to the groin though for both and deserve same punishment.
what Mullin did was a lot worse than what either Ricey or Tommy done.
Looked like it but Tommy and Brian Mullan still kneed to the groin area, doesnt matter which looked worse or not, and im not sure what to class Ricey's as but all 3 should have warranted 4 weeks suspensions.
All 3 should warrant at least 8 weeks. Paul Finlay got an 8 week suspension last year for having words with a ref. I'd say a knee to the groin is a bit more serious.
The length of the suspension is affected by the force. I think this is silly, it should all be the same, they need to find a fixed penalty for such incidents and stick by them!
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 05:57:27 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 10, 2009, 04:25:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 09:07:00 AM
Tommy Freeman lost his appeal against his 8-week ban.
Doherty having his case heard tonight.
Have to laugh at the Monaghan Chairman saying how Tommay was never red carded in his life ...
Tommy Freeman has seen more Red Cards than almost any other footballer on that County team - he's got more cards than Hallmark
Can you list them?
Can he even list one?
I wonder are Derry going to use the Brolly defense?
Quote from: Main Street on June 11, 2009, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 05:57:27 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 10, 2009, 04:25:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 09:07:00 AM
Tommy Freeman lost his appeal against his 8-week ban.
Doherty having his case heard tonight.
Have to laugh at the Monaghan Chairman saying how Tommay was never red carded in his life ...
Tommy Freeman has seen more Red Cards than almost any other footballer on that County team - he's got more cards than Hallmark
Can you list them?
Can he even list one?
I wonder are Derry going to use the Brolly defense?
No, there's been too many. ;D
So now it's Saint Tommy is it? You pair mustn't have ever seen him play club football - he's far from an angel and if you saw any club football in Monaghan you'd know better than to start that ... as for Connolly spouting off he should also have known better.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 05:57:27 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 10, 2009, 04:25:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 09:07:00 AM
Tommy Freeman lost his appeal against his 8-week ban.
Doherty having his case heard tonight.
Have to laugh at the Monaghan Chairman saying how Tommay was never red carded in his life ...
Tommy Freeman has seen more Red Cards than almost any other footballer on that County team - he's got more cards than Hallmark
Can you list them?
Has Tommy ever been suspended before?
Is he related to the Tommy Freeman who received an 8 week ban for his part in a melee that led to a Magheracloone - Latton league game being abandoned in December 2007? A suspension, incidently, that a Mr Connolly, chairman of the Monaghan county board, is fully aware of.
Mr Connolly is making a tit of himself here.
As indeed are the Derry county board. Mullen fully deserves eight weeks for his actions - comparisons with either McMenamin or McGuian are irrelevant and the Glenullan man should take his medicine.
On what basis was Fergal Doherty's ban reduced to 4 weeks ?
Quote from: orangeman on June 11, 2009, 09:22:23 AM
On what basis was Fergal Doherty's ban reduced to 4 weeks ?
As he has shown in the past he is not a dirty player but is a fair and physical player.
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:29:55 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 11, 2009, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 05:57:27 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 10, 2009, 04:25:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 09:07:00 AM
Tommy Freeman lost his appeal against his 8-week ban.
Doherty having his case heard tonight.
Have to laugh at the Monaghan Chairman saying how Tommay was never red carded in his life ...
Tommy Freeman has seen more Red Cards than almost any other footballer on that County team - he's got more cards than Hallmark
Can you list them?
Can he even list one?
I wonder are Derry going to use the Brolly defense?
No, there's been too many. ;D
So now it's Saint Tommy is it? You pair mustn't have ever seen him play club football - he's far from an angel and if you saw any club football in Monaghan you'd know better than to start that ... as for Connolly spouting off he should also have known better.
I thought as much. Hot air.
I never said he was an angel - i never heard anyone saying that; that was the official line for Doherty as I recall.
I'm sure if we bring club records into it there's a fair few red cards on both teams. But you did appear to be talking about county football and so far haven't been able to give even one example. Hallmark must have very little stock.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 11, 2009, 09:30:03 AM
Quote from: orangeman on June 11, 2009, 09:22:23 AM
On what basis was Fergal Doherty's ban reduced to 4 weeks ?
As he has shown in the past he is not a dirty player but is a fair and physical player.
Since when has past form been cosidered in reducing a sanction?
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 11, 2009, 09:30:03 AM
As he has shown in the past he is not a dirty player but is a fair and physical player.
You aren't going to get a suspension reduced on something being out of character.
Quote from: orangeman on June 11, 2009, 09:22:23 AM
On what basis was Fergal Doherty's ban reduced to 4 weeks ?
I'm not 100% sure what the original charge was but I presume he was done for "Kicking, with force or attempting to cause injury" - Category 3 & 8 weeks. If the ban was indeed reduced then it's probably down as Kicking with minimal force - Category 2 & 4 weeks - again, I'd presume the interpretation of force is the difference in the length of sentence between the CCCC and the CHC
What will be interesting to know is will Doherty miss the Tyrone game anyway? If you're sent off with a straight red, you miss the next game in the Championship regardless of when the suspension is up - I'm not sure if this is the case for post match suspensions.
Feck me, theres a deafening silence in here this morning
Quote from: Bensars on June 11, 2009, 10:15:49 AM
Feck me, theres a deafening silence in here this morning
Stunned silence.
Quote from: orangeman on June 11, 2009, 09:22:23 AM
On what basis was Fergal Doherty's ban reduced to 4 weeks ?
On what basis was he given 8 weeks in the first place?
Good to hear that Mullan and Doherty both have their bans reduced - justice has been done. In line with what has gone before for Mullan's offence, 4 weeks appears to be the correct sanction.
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 03, 2009, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 03, 2009, 03:11:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
McGuckin didn't go down because he wasn't touched.
Are you Derry wans not fed up yet pleading the innocent victims because everybody else is fed up listening to ye
Stay out of the Derry v Monaghan thread then.
Have to agree with screenexile on this one - good to see that Derry aren't taking this to the DRA, High Courts etc. Other county's have totally exhausted this process at every turn around instead of accepting their medicine.
I'm still not quite sure how Mullan got eight weeks when a similar incident earlier in the year only warranted a four week ban. Which was appealed of course, in keeping with the form expected from that particular county. :D :D :D :D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 11, 2009, 10:38:52 AM
Quote from: orangeman on June 11, 2009, 09:22:23 AM
On what basis was Fergal Doherty's ban reduced to 4 weeks ?
On what basis was he given 8 weeks in the first place?
Good to hear that Mullan and Doherty both have their bans reduced - justice has been done. In line with what has gone before for Mullan's offence, 4 weeks appears to be the correct sanction.
Mullen's hasn't been reduced - it wasn't even appealed.
Quote from: orangeman on June 11, 2009, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 11, 2009, 10:38:52 AM
Quote from: orangeman on June 11, 2009, 09:22:23 AM
On what basis was Fergal Doherty's ban reduced to 4 weeks ?
On what basis was he given 8 weeks in the first place?
Good to hear that Mullan and Doherty both have their bans reduced - justice has been done. In line with what has gone before for Mullan's offence, 4 weeks appears to be the correct sanction.
Mullen's hasn't been reduced - it wasn't even appealed.
It was!
QuoteFrom derrygaa.ie
Doherty & Mullan's suspensions reduced
Senior players, Fergal Doherty and Brian Mullan have had their eight-week suspension halved after an appeal to GAA disciplinary chiefs.
Both Fergal and Brian will miss next weekends Ulster Semi final clash with Tyrone but will be available for any games thereafter.
Good for the team that both players will only be missing for one game but I think Mullan's actions were indefensible and we should have left that suspension alone. I guess the fact that precedent was set earlier in the year for Tommy McGuigan's incident dictated that he should only get 4 weeks instead of the original 8 proposed.
Monaghan is going to be pissed off as Tommy Freeman's 8 weeks was upheld and these 2 are reduced
I think this proved that some inter county teams would sell out their own mothers to further their cause. Mullan's ban reduction is beyond belief. That is one of the worst incidents I've seen in a Gaa pitch. There is no honour among Gaa teams anymore. Good message for all the young players who watch our games.
Quote from: Bensars on June 11, 2009, 10:47:32 AM
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 03, 2009, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 03, 2009, 03:11:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2009, 02:37:39 PM
Sunday game showed a clear head butt to Kevin McGuckin and in fairness McGuckin didn't go down like some players have but there was clear as day. Clerkin deserves a ban for his knee also. I'm glad Derry are accepting Mullan's punishment and only seeking to get Doherty's ban reduced. Unlike some Counties who will appeal anything and everything no matter what the player has done wrong!
McGuckin didn't go down because he wasn't touched.
Are you Derry wans not fed up yet pleading the innocent victims because everybody else is fed up listening to ye
Stay out of the Derry v Monaghan thread then.
Have to agree with screenexile on this one - good to see that Derry aren't taking this to the DRA, High Courts etc. Other county's have totally exhausted this process at every turn around instead of accepting their medicine.
I'm still not quite sure how Mullan got eight weeks when a similar incident earlier in the year only warranted a four week ban. Which was appealed of course, in keeping with the form expected from that particular county. :D :D :D :D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yeah, like I said, Derry have accepted their medicine... they are just ensuring that they have been administered the
correct dosage. Fair play to them.
Unlike Monaghan who actually wanted Freeman's ban totally quashed (or Tyrone who wanted McGuigan's 4-week ban quashed).
Glad to see this, a fair sentence. Some of the reaction here [even from some Derry posters i might add] is obviously more a result of the hyperbole on TV rather than what actually happened. GNevin's 'for God's sake would somebody please think of the children' shows just how far some people have lost the run of themselves.
If this is the worst thing thing, or one of the worst things, you've ever seen on a football pitch you obviously haven't played or indeed watched much football.
On the other hand, it IS one of the worst things I've ever saw on the Sunday Game!
Mullans ban halved is without doubt the biggest joke the GAA has managed in a long long time.
If thats discipline, its no wonder players/managers carry on without any respect to the rules.
After seeing the GAA at work this week its very easy to lose interest or respect for it.
Sorry GNevin.
That should've been Indiana i misquoted in my previous post. :D
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 11:02:02 AM
Monaghan is going to be pissed off as Tommy Freeman's 8 weeks was upheld and these 2 are reduced
I can only assume that the ban for headbutting is greater than that for kicking or kneeing. IMO a headbut it more dangerous than a kick or a knee, but I dont know what the rules state about it.
I can see why both Docs and Mullans ban were reduced, particularly docs as the kick would never have caused any damage....4 weeks and missing a game seems fair. Mullan prob got his reduced due to the similar incidents earlier this year where a 4 week ban was given...so while I wouldnt go as far as saying it is fair, it is understandable.
Quote from: bingobus on June 11, 2009, 11:38:09 AM
Mullans ban halved is without doubt the biggest joke the GAA has managed in a long long time.
If thats discipline, its no wonder players/managers carry on without any respect to the rules.
After seeing the GAA at work this week its very easy to lose interest or respect for it.
Afraid you are wrong here....the biggest joke is that Dick Clerkin didnt get any kind of reprimand for his bahaviour that day.
The most famous inbred of the lot of you would find difficulty defending this reversal.
Quote from: bingobus on June 11, 2009, 11:38:09 AM
Mullans ban halved is without doubt the biggest joke the GAA has managed in a long long time.
If thats discipline, its no wonder players/managers carry on without any respect to the rules.
After seeing the GAA at work this week its very easy to lose interest or respect for it.
Or is it giving Tommy McGuigan 4 weeks in the first place??
One of these is wrong I certainly agree, I would probably say that Tommy should have got 8 weeks, and so should Mullan.
But if Tommy only got 4 weeks for the same action (regardless of force) then why should Mullan accept a longer ban?
Quote from: Bensars on June 11, 2009, 11:49:44 AM
The most famous inbred of the lot of you would find difficulty defending this reversal.
What do Tyrone and Peter Canavan have to do with it ???
Quote from: Bensars on June 11, 2009, 11:49:44 AM
The most famous inbred of the lot of you would find difficulty defending this reversal.
What reversal are you talking about????
I may have missed it, but was one of the bans rescinded??
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:29:55 AM
So now it's Saint Tommy is it? You pair mustn't have ever seen him play club football - he's far from an angel and if you saw any club football in Monaghan you'd know better than to start that ... as for Connolly spouting off he should also have known better.
The flexible survival methods and retributions taken on the savage killing fields of Monaghan club competition have nowt to do with this system.
Tomás has no previous form in relation to red cards and disciplinary punishments on the County level.
In the GAA's disciplinary guidelines that makes this (virtual) headbutt his first offense.
As I recall, 2 months is the correct punishment for a first offender found guilty of headbutting.
Connolly was accurate with Tommy's record but displayed a lack of awareness of the punishment system.
By applying consistancy, Fergal should have got 12 weeks and Mullans unchanged.
I have to admit, when faced with the incompetents that adjudicate such matters in the GAA, the sureal Brolly defense finds a welcome.
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 11, 2009, 11:42:41 AM
[I can only assume that the ban for headbutting is greater than that for kicking or kneeing. IMO a headbut it more dangerous than a kick or a knee, but I dont know what the rules state about it.
Now before I start, i'll just clarify that i'm not defending Tommy's actions.
His incident had intent, yes, but it was hardly a savage attack - it barely connected. I don't see how that can be more dangerous that Mullan's knee to the balls, which clearly did connect.
Personally i think all attempts to strike/knee a man in the groin should be met with a standard six-month suspension - it's one thing that needs to be removed altogether from the game and it should be relatively simple to do so.
Conway suspended over Kielt clash
James Conway is suspended pending an investigation
James Conway has been suspended from the Derry panel while an investigation is held into an incident which left James Kielt with a broken jaw.
Kielt was playing for his club Kilrea against Conway's Ballinderry on 7 June when an off-the-ball clash occurred.
As the referee did see the incident, Ballinderry were ordered to identify which of their players was involved.
The injury rules Kielt out of Derry's Ulster semi-final clash against Tyrone on 21 June.
The forward is also doubtful for Derry's following game, either the Ulster final on 19 July or an All-Ireland qualifier eight days earlier.
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 11, 2009, 11:28:59 AM
Glad to see this, a fair sentence. Some of the reaction here [even from some Derry posters i might add] is obviously more a result of the hyperbole on TV rather than what actually happened. GNevin's 'for God's sake would somebody please think of the children' shows just how far some people have lost the run of themselves.
If this is the worst thing thing, or one of the worst things, you've ever seen on a football pitch you obviously haven't played or indeed watched much football.
On the other hand, it IS one of the worst things I've ever saw on the Sunday Game!
How would you know what level of football I've played at? and that was a disgraceful incident. It was the absolute intent that struck me with the incident. He even had a look around before he did it. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves in Derry.
Complete farce. I'm not defending tommy but is a head push, it wasn't a butt, he pushed his face into the Derry players face who hardly felt it, worse than kneeing a player, lying on the ground, into the groin/stomach area with force and intent.
Surely there is a charge for recklessness/intent to injure another player or dangerous play?????
As for comparing Dick to this incedent, he is hard and plays on edge, over it but he never went as far as to injure another player. He'll try to stop them playing with verbals, physcial play but he would never knee a player on the ground.
Complete sc**bag act.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 12:25:11 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 11, 2009, 11:28:59 AM
Glad to see this, a fair sentence. Some of the reaction here [even from some Derry posters i might add] is obviously more a result of the hyperbole on TV rather than what actually happened. GNevin's 'for God's sake would somebody please think of the children' shows just how far some people have lost the run of themselves.
If this is the worst thing thing, or one of the worst things, you've ever seen on a football pitch you obviously haven't played or indeed watched much football.
On the other hand, it IS one of the worst things I've ever saw on the Sunday Game!
How would you know what level of football I've played at? and that was a disgraceful incident. It was the absolute intent that struck me with the incident. He even had a look around before he did it. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves in Derry.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 12:25:11 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 11, 2009, 11:28:59 AM
Glad to see this, a fair sentence. Some of the reaction here [even from some Derry posters i might add] is obviously more a result of the hyperbole on TV rather than what actually happened. GNevin's 'for God's sake would somebody please think of the children' shows just how far some people have lost the run of themselves.
If this is the worst thing thing, or one of the worst things, you've ever seen on a football pitch you obviously haven't played or indeed watched much football.
On the other hand, it IS one of the worst things I've ever saw on the Sunday Game!
How would you know what level of football I've played at? and that was a disgraceful incident. It was the absolute intent that struck me with the incident. He even had a look around before he did it. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves in Derry.
INDIANA please refrain from fabricating things. There is a short clip of the incident on youtube and he certainly did not have a look around before he did it.
I think he deserved the 8 weeks. I also think McGuigan deserved 8 weeks for his. But if he only got 4 then I think Derry are correct in appealing to get the same ban.
Mc Guigan barely made contact for Christs sake. You man knew exactly what he was doing and the absolute intent was there for all to see. The ball was nowhere in the vicinity. You really have some neck appealing an incident like that. What is the game coming too? The Gaa are worse for even entertaining such an appeal. i wouldn't have let them in the front door.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 12:45:56 PM
Mc Guigan barely made contact for Christs sake. You man knew exactly what he was doing and the absolute intent was there for all to see. The ball was nowhere in the vicinity. You really have some neck appealing an incident like that. What is the game coming too? The Gaa are worse for even entertaining such an appeal. i wouldn't have let them in the front door.
Yes but you also said Mullan "had a look around" before he did it so you're not as clued in as you like to think.
Before you piss yourself in a fit and start having another go read what I am saying:
Mullans behavious was a disgrace, if you go through my posts on the matter I've been very consistent. He should have got 8 weeks. Tommy McGuigan kneed Sean Marty in the balls and got 4, therefore I think we've every right to appeal. If Tommy had have got 8 I know we wouldn't have appealed. Don't start about how hard who was hit, it takes very little to make a man crumple when hit in the stones.
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 12:59:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 12:45:56 PM
Mc Guigan barely made contact for Christs sake. You man knew exactly what he was doing and the absolute intent was there for all to see. The ball was nowhere in the vicinity. You really have some neck appealing an incident like that. What is the game coming too? The Gaa are worse for even entertaining such an appeal. i wouldn't have let them in the front door.
Yes but you also said Mullan "had a look around" before he did it so you're not as clued in as you like to think.
Before you piss yourself in a fit and start having another go read what I am saying:
Mullans behavious was a disgrace, if you go through my posts on the matter I've been very consistent. He should have got 8 weeks. Tommy McGuigan kneed Sean Marty in the balls and got 4, therefore I think we've every right to appeal. If Tommy had have got 8 I know we wouldn't have appealed. Don't start about how hard who was hit, it takes very little to make a man crumple when hit in the stones.
Don't give me that bullshit, a hell of alot of other damage can be done other than make a man "crumble".
Doesn't matter what anyone else done. If your lot had an ounce of integrity they wouldn't have appealed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA&feature=related
Oh I'd say he good look round what do you think? He knew exactly where the ref was because he was looking down the pitch as the above shows.
Reading the rules as they are - If you're on the CCCC looking at the videos what suspension do you hit McGuigan with and which do you hit Mullan with?
Category II - 4 weeks
Abusive language towards a Referee, Umpire, Linesman, or Sideline Official; Striking or attempting to strike with hurley, with minimal force; Kicking or attempting to kick, with minimal force; Striking or attempting to strike with arm, elbow, hand or knee; Behaving in any way which is dangerous to an opponent; Spitting at an opponent; Contributing to a melee.
Category III - 8 weeks
Striking with hurley, either with force or causing injury; Attempting to strike with hurley, with force; Kicking, either with force or causing injury; Attempting to Kick, with force; Stamping; Striking or attempting to strike with the head; Inflicting injury recklessly by means other than those stated above; Any type of assault on an Opposing Team Official.
Quote from: tyrone86 on June 11, 2009, 01:13:44 PM
Reading the rules as they are - If you're on the CCCC looking at the video what suspension do you hit McGuigan with and which do you hit Mullan with?
Category II - 4 weeks
Abusive language towards a Referee, Umpire, Linesman, or Sideline Official; Striking or attempting to strike with hurley, with minimal force; Kicking or attempting to kick, with minimal force; Striking or attempting to strike with arm, elbow, hand or knee; Behaving in any way which is dangerous to an opponent; Spitting at an opponent; Contributing to a melee.
Category III - 8 weeks
Striking with hurley, either with force or causing injury; Attempting to strike with hurley, with force; Kicking, either with force or causing injury; Attempting to Kick, with force; Stamping; Striking or attempting to strike with the head; Inflicting injury recklessly by means other than those stated above; Any type of assault on an Opposing Team Official.
Can see where you're coming from, but I have no doubt Sean Marty wasn't feigning when Tommy kneed him. How do you define how badly someone is hurt? The balls are a sensitive area so any contact is extremely painfull.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 01:07:20 PM
Doesn't matter what anyone else done. If your lot had an ounce of integrity they wouldn't have appealed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA&feature=related
Oh I'd say he good look round what do you think? He knew exactly where the ref was because he was looking down the pitch as the above shows.
I would say he didn't "have a good look around", he concentrated on the player to get away from him, then unexplicably did what he did. What annoys me most is that he was on top and was in a position to get up and leave him but he got that dig in before he went. No excuse for this ever to happen on a football field. Whatever you think indiana I do not condone this type of behaviour. I just think if we are able to get the suspension in line with a previous incident i.e. McGuigan's then why not?
Certainly as some of us might have experienced, a light tap to that sacred sensitive area can cause extreme pain out of proportion to the force inflicted :)
I'd assume that Tommy was done by being deemed to have at least attempted to strike with the head.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 01:07:20 PM
Doesn't matter what anyone else done. If your lot had an ounce of integrity they wouldn't have appealed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA&feature=related
Oh I'd say he good look round what do you think? He knew exactly where the ref was because he was looking down the pitch as the above shows.
Interesting to note Woods making it his business to be slabberin to Doherty ~12 - 14 secs into this clip.
Quote from: offtheground on June 11, 2009, 02:00:57 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 01:07:20 PM
Doesn't matter what anyone else done. If your lot had an ounce of integrity they wouldn't have appealed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA&feature=related
Oh I'd say he good look round what do you think? He knew exactly where the ref was because he was looking down the pitch as the above shows.
Interesting to note Woods making it his business to be slabberin to Doherty ~12 - 14 secs into this clip.
There was slabbering from alot of players from both sides all game, what's your point?
Quote from: Schkite on June 11, 2009, 02:11:59 PM
Quote from: offtheground on June 11, 2009, 02:00:57 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 01:07:20 PM
Doesn't matter what anyone else done. If your lot had an ounce of integrity they wouldn't have appealed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA&feature=related
Oh I'd say he good look round what do you think? He knew exactly where the ref was because he was looking down the pitch as the above shows.
Interesting to note Woods making it his business to be slabberin to Doherty ~12 - 14 secs into this clip.
There was slabbering from alot of players from both sides all game, what's your point?
Just noting that he seemed to make it his business to run several yards over to Doherty and get in his face, unprovoked and to a player that wasn't even involved in the last play. There's no-one suggesting that it didn't come from both sides, so dry your eyes and try cocking your head to one side so the chip on your shoulder doesn't cause you to topple over....
Quote from: Sonny Joe on June 11, 2009, 02:20:36 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 01:07:20 PM
Doesn't matter what anyone else done. If your lot had an ounce of integrity they wouldn't have appealed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA&feature=related
Oh I'd say he good look round what do you think? He knew exactly where the ref was because he was looking down the pitch as the above shows.
what is very clear is that Mullan used his knee, what is not clear is the area he hit and that is a major fcator in him either getting the minimun of 4 weeks or eight weeks in this category. Why did his opponent not get a yellow card for an aggressive foul?
Sheer comedy reading through some of the bullshit excuses. Des Bishop has enough material here for an entire comedy hour.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 02:28:48 PM
Quote from: Sonny Joe on June 11, 2009, 02:20:36 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 01:07:20 PM
Doesn't matter what anyone else done. If your lot had an ounce of integrity they wouldn't have appealed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA&feature=related
Oh I'd say he good look round what do you think? He knew exactly where the ref was because he was looking down the pitch as the above shows.
what is very clear is that Mullan used his knee, what is not clear is the area he hit and that is a major fcator in him either getting the minimun of 4 weeks or eight weeks in this category. Why did his opponent not get a yellow card for an aggressive foul?
Sheer comedy reading through some of the bullshit excuses. Des Bishop has enough material here for an entire comedy hour.
+1
With over 35 years experience in the Gaa, I don't need to educate myself on the fact that a full force kick in the nuts with the ball nowhere near in the vicinity done with the absolute intent the video CONCLUSIVELY displays supercedes any bullshit about due process, the DRA or any other of these quasi discplinary bodies that were created for county teams to flout the rules of the association in order to get their players off regardless of what the right thing is to do.
end of story.
Quote from: offtheground on June 11, 2009, 02:26:41 PM
Quote from: Schkite on June 11, 2009, 02:11:59 PM
Quote from: offtheground on June 11, 2009, 02:00:57 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 01:07:20 PM
Doesn't matter what anyone else done. If your lot had an ounce of integrity they wouldn't have appealed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA&feature=related
Oh I'd say he good look round what do you think? He knew exactly where the ref was because he was looking down the pitch as the above shows.
Interesting to note Woods making it his business to be slabberin to Doherty ~12 - 14 secs into this clip.
There was slabbering from alot of players from both sides all game, what's your point?
Just noting that he seemed to make it his business to run several yards over to Doherty and get in his face, unprovoked and to a player that wasn't even involved in the last play. There's no-one suggesting that it didn't come from both sides, so dry your eyes and try cocking your head to one side so the chip on your shoulder doesn't cause you to topple over....
:D I'm just wondering why that was so interesting now, a good while after the match, when there were numerous similar examples all match long that were talked about at length. But moreso I was just wondering why this was so noteworthy on a day where there is much more interesting developments that came out of this match.
Not having a go as you're right, there was alot of such unsporting play and maybe you're only noticing that one bit now as a result of that link being posted. Just surprised anyone would bring up a little thing like that compared to controversial suspension changes, but sure it doesn't bother me, work away.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 02:43:55 PM
With over 35 years experience in the Gaa, I don't need to educate myself on the fact that a full force kick in the nuts with the ball nowhere near in the vicinity done with the absolute intent the video CONCLUSIVELY displays supercedes any bullshit about due process, the DRA or any other of these quasi discplinary bodies that were created for county teams to flout the rules of the association in order to get their players off regardless of what the right thing is to do.
end of story.
show me how you see that he hits him on the nuts. Stop assuming, stop looking for something you want to see. Just look and tell me what you really actually see. I cannot see EXACTLY (the answer is in the detail) what he connects with
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 02:43:55 PM
With over 35 years experience in the Gaa, I don't need to educate myself on the fact that a full force kick in the nuts with the ball nowhere near in the vicinity done with the absolute intent the video CONCLUSIVELY displays supercedes any bullshit about due process, the DRA or any other of these quasi discplinary bodies that were created for county teams to flout the rules of the association in order to get their players off regardless of what the right thing is to do.
end of story.
1-Are you suggesting that we scrap the discipline procedure, and judge each offence on individual merit?
2-What Derry/Monaghan players got off?
Quote from: the green man on June 11, 2009, 02:52:35 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 02:43:55 PM
With over 35 years experience in the Gaa, I don't need to educate myself on the fact that a full force kick in the nuts with the ball nowhere near in the vicinity done with the absolute intent the video CONCLUSIVELY displays supercedes any bullshit about due process, the DRA or any other of these quasi discplinary bodies that were created for county teams to flout the rules of the association in order to get their players off regardless of what the right thing is to do.
end of story.
1-Are you suggesting that we scrap the discipline procedure, and judge each offence on individual merit?
2-What Derry/Monaghan players got off?
The Mone's, Woods and Clerkin.
Quote from: Sonny Joe on June 11, 2009, 02:50:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 02:43:55 PM
With over 35 years experience in the Gaa, I don't need to educate myself on the fact that a full force kick in the nuts with the ball nowhere near in the vicinity done with the absolute intent the video CONCLUSIVELY displays supercedes any bullshit about due process, the DRA or any other of these quasi discplinary bodies that were created for county teams to flout the rules of the association in order to get their players off regardless of what the right thing is to do.
end of story.
show me how you see that he hits him on the nuts. Stop assuming, stop looking for something you want to see. Just look and tell me what you really actually see. I cannot see EXACTLY (the answer is in the detail) what he connects with
Jesus I'm in raptures mate laughing at this. Its a bit like saying after someone shoots someone- well he shot him in the right leg instaed of the left leg ;D ;D. I've posted the video above- he kicks him in the nuts.
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 02:55:02 PM
Quote from: the green man on June 11, 2009, 02:52:35 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 02:43:55 PM
With over 35 years experience in the Gaa, I don't need to educate myself on the fact that a full force kick in the nuts with the ball nowhere near in the vicinity done with the absolute intent the video CONCLUSIVELY displays supercedes any bullshit about due process, the DRA or any other of these quasi discplinary bodies that were created for county teams to flout the rules of the association in order to get their players off regardless of what the right thing is to do.
end of story.
1-Are you suggesting that we scrap the discipline procedure, and judge each offence on individual merit?
2-What Derry/Monaghan players got off?
The Mone's, Woods and Clerkin.
Don't make an ass of your self and just pick names for the sake of it - JP mone didn't even play. One Mone played but sure pick the obvious names anyway to add a bit of meat to your story!
Quote from: bingobus on June 11, 2009, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 02:55:02 PM
Quote from: the green man on June 11, 2009, 02:52:35 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 02:43:55 PM
With over 35 years experience in the Gaa, I don't need to educate myself on the fact that a full force kick in the nuts with the ball nowhere near in the vicinity done with the absolute intent the video CONCLUSIVELY displays supercedes any bullshit about due process, the DRA or any other of these quasi discplinary bodies that were created for county teams to flout the rules of the association in order to get their players off regardless of what the right thing is to do.
end of story.
1-Are you suggesting that we scrap the discipline procedure, and judge each offence on individual merit?
2-What Derry/Monaghan players got off?
The Mone's, Woods and Clerkin.
Don't make an ass of your self and just pick names for the sake of it - JP mone didn't even play. One Mone played but sure pick the obvious names anyway to add a bit of meat to your story!
:D
Couldn't be assed I'm bored with this now the whole thing's done and dusted can we not just move on?!
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: Sonny Joe on June 11, 2009, 02:50:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 02:43:55 PM
With over 35 years experience in the Gaa, I don't need to educate myself on the fact that a full force kick in the nuts with the ball nowhere near in the vicinity done with the absolute intent the video CONCLUSIVELY displays supercedes any bullshit about due process, the DRA or any other of these quasi discplinary bodies that were created for county teams to flout the rules of the association in order to get their players off regardless of what the right thing is to do.
end of story.
show me how you see that he hits him on the nuts. Stop assuming, stop looking for something you want to see. Just look and tell me what you really actually see. I cannot see EXACTLY (the answer is in the detail) what he connects with
Jesus I'm in raptures mate laughing at this. Its a bit like saying after someone shoots someone- well he shot him in the right leg instaed of the left leg ;D ;D. I've posted the video above- he kicks him in the nuts.
so you have just increased it from kneeing to kicking...keep er lit.
You should have been Fianna Fail's PR Officer during the Tribunals, the whole country would have believed Bertie was honest as the day is long. I mean with spin like that who needs a propaganda machine.
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 03:28:10 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 11, 2009, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 02:55:02 PM
Quote from: the green man on June 11, 2009, 02:52:35 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 02:43:55 PM
With over 35 years experience in the Gaa, I don't need to educate myself on the fact that a full force kick in the nuts with the ball nowhere near in the vicinity done with the absolute intent the video CONCLUSIVELY displays supercedes any bullshit about due process, the DRA or any other of these quasi discplinary bodies that were created for county teams to flout the rules of the association in order to get their players off regardless of what the right thing is to do.
end of story.
1-Are you suggesting that we scrap the discipline procedure, and judge each offence on individual merit?
2-What Derry/Monaghan players got off?
The Mone's, Woods and Clerkin.
Don't make an ass of your self and just pick names for the sake of it - JP mone didn't even play. One Mone played but sure pick the obvious names anyway to add a bit of meat to your story!
:D
Couldn't be assed I'm bored with this now the whole thing's done and dusted can we not just move on?!
Yeah sure. Derrys happy. Thats the main thing.
Quote from: bingobus on June 11, 2009, 03:35:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 03:28:10 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 11, 2009, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 02:55:02 PM
Quote from: the green man on June 11, 2009, 02:52:35 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 02:43:55 PM
With over 35 years experience in the Gaa, I don't need to educate myself on the fact that a full force kick in the nuts with the ball nowhere near in the vicinity done with the absolute intent the video CONCLUSIVELY displays supercedes any bullshit about due process, the DRA or any other of these quasi discplinary bodies that were created for county teams to flout the rules of the association in order to get their players off regardless of what the right thing is to do.
end of story.
1-Are you suggesting that we scrap the discipline procedure, and judge each offence on individual merit?
2-What Derry/Monaghan players got off?
The Mone's, Woods and Clerkin.
Don't make an ass of your self and just pick names for the sake of it - JP mone didn't even play. One Mone played but sure pick the obvious names anyway to add a bit of meat to your story!
:D
Couldn't be assed I'm bored with this now the whole thing's done and dusted can we not just move on?!
Yeah sure. Derrys happy. Thats the main thing.
Yep, the reference to 'The Mone's' says it all really.
look at the video.
Quote from: Sonny Joe on June 11, 2009, 03:38:19 PM
stick to the facts, the fact will set you free. Look at what really happens and not what you think happened. Mullan kneed his opponent-fact, was it in the stomach are or groin area- inconclusive- the difference between 4 wks and 8wks.
Its shouldn't make a difference if its the stones, stomach, big toe or head.
He knee'd him with intent.
The rule was previously posted.
Can you quote a rule that states the difference between kneeing someone in the stones or the stomach. Both equally dangerous.
Besides that, Mr Magoo could look at the clip and tell you it was the stones.
Indiana you really talk some bullshit.
Firstly you said Mullan looked round him then give him a knee in the balls, which he didn't.
Now you're saying he kicked him istead of kneed.
Which is it? You should think about what you're typing then read over it again. A lot of it doesn't make sense.
It is inconclusive as to whether or not he connected with his balls but the fact remains he kneed him somewhere in that vacinity, and deserved a suspension. How long of a suspension? The same as Tommy McGuigan I would say.
Look at the incident again . Mullen can see at all times where the ref is when he did it. Do I have to post the bloody thing again?
As said above point out in the rulebook where a knee with intent is differentiated in the rulebook? You guys should be doing stand up. Des Bishop would be out of a job.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 03:50:38 PM
Look at the incident again . Mullen can see at all times where the ref is when he did it. Do I have to post the bloody thing again?
As said above point out in the rulebook where a knee with intent is differentiated in the rulebook? You guys should be doing stand up. Des Bishop would be out of a job.
You can't possibly be as stupid as you're letting on. Do you know that for a KICK you use your FOOT. And for a KNEE you use...go on have a go...that's right, your KNEE! If nothing else answer me this...did you know the difference before you posted that Mullan kicked him?
I have said Mullan deserves a ban whether he kneed him in the balls, stomach, eyebrow, calf, back, tooth, earlobe, big toe. It doesn't matter. My point is he deserves the same as Tommy McGuigan as it was the same offence.
HOW MANY TIMES AM I GOING TO HAVE TO POST THIS?!?!?!?!
You could do stand up yourself, although the sad thing is people would be laughing at you and not with you. I do apologise though if you are actually very stupid as you can't help that.
Youre just a f**king idiot quite frankly by attempting to come onto public website with damning video evidence and attempting to water down a disgraceful incident where the individual should have 8 months and then slating perfectly rational individuals for being critical of it.
I'm afraid you won't be getting an invitation in the post to join MENSA any time soon. If they have an equaivalent for stupid people , the form is probably on its way to you.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 04:18:14 PM
Youre just a f**king idiot quite frankly by attempting to come onto public website with damning video evidence and attempting to water down a disgraceful incident where the individual should have 8 months and then slating perfectly rational individuals for being critical of it.
I'm afraid you won't be getting an invitation in the post to join MENSA any time soon. If they have an equaivalent for stupid people , the form is probably on its way to you.
8 months?!?
Let me guess - 1 month for kneeing mcmanus, and 7 months for looking down the field to see where the ref was?
:D
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 04:18:14 PM
Youre just a f**king idiot quite frankly by attempting to come onto public website with damning video evidence and attempting to water down a disgraceful incident where the individual should have 8 months and then slating perfectly rational individuals for being critical of it.
I'm afraid you won't be getting an invitation in the post to join MENSA any time soon. If they have an equaivalent for stupid people , the form is probably on its way to you.
Please show me some evidence of where I tried to water down Mullan's knee.
I have stated several times that it was disgraceful, unnecessary and downright dangerous. All joking aside, are you f**king stupid? Are you actually incapable of reading certain words? I can't believe after the amount of times I have reiterated the fact I was against the knee to the groin area you still are unable to pick up on it. Seriously, I have more intelligence in my left knee (oops, don't mention knees). Maybe you'll think I'm talking about feet anyway ::)
All his floundering credibility went whenever a ban of 8 months was mentioned, imbecile.
Jesus lads you actually think Derry has any credibility left- Priceless ;D ;D ;D. This thread is absolutely hilarious -who needs stand up .
Quote from: INDIANA on June 11, 2009, 04:48:29 PM
Jesus lads you actually think Derry has any credibility left- Priceless ;D ;D ;D. This thread is absolutely hilarious -who needs stand up .
And you completely avoided my post. Well done.
Listen mate when you want to debate the issue at hand give us a shout. If you want to talk about ordonics I'm afraid thats not my field. If it was my county I wouldn't be opening my mouth. I'd let the individual cop all the flak because they would deserve it. County teams have no credibility left anymore. The Gaa system even less.
Indiana, pleeeeease answer me this. Are you stupid? What part of my post makes me a piss-taker or a WUM or someone who is defending my county at all costs? I have openly said he deserves a ban, what the f**k is wrong with you? Are you stupid? Seriously?
I am happy to debate it now, you obviously aren't.
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 04:09:26 PM
I have said Mullan deserves a ban whether he kneed him in the balls, stomach, eyebrow, calf, back, tooth, earlobe, big toe. It doesn't matter. My point is he deserves the same as Tommy McGuigan as it was the same offence.
Looking at the bigger picture, two wrongs don't make a right. I know the recent McGuigan case is being cited, but 4 weeks is hardly appropriate for a knee in the nuts when, as i have already mentioned, Finlay got 8 weeks last year for verbals with the ref.
BTW, is there a video link to the Tommy McGuigan incident?
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 09:35:03 AM
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:29:55 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 11, 2009, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 05:57:27 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 10, 2009, 04:25:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 10, 2009, 09:07:00 AM
Tommy Freeman lost his appeal against his 8-week ban.
Doherty having his case heard tonight.
Have to laugh at the Monaghan Chairman saying how Tommay was never red carded in his life ...
Tommy Freeman has seen more Red Cards than almost any other footballer on that County team - he's got more cards than Hallmark
Can you list them?
Can he even list one?
I wonder are Derry going to use the Brolly defense?
No, there's been too many. ;D
So now it's Saint Tommy is it? You pair mustn't have ever seen him play club football - he's far from an angel and if you saw any club football in Monaghan you'd know better than to start that ... as for Connolly spouting off he should also have known better.
I thought as much. Hot air.
I never said he was an angel - i never heard anyone saying that; that was the official line for Doherty as I recall.
I'm sure if we bring club records into it there's a fair few red cards on both teams. But you did appear to be talking about county football and so far haven't been able to give even one example. Hallmark must have very little stock.
We're not talking about both teams - We're talking about Tommy Freeman - I said he had been sent of many times for his club and was no angel - you called me out - well back it up then.
Well which is it? Hot air or truth?
You can't bullshit the truth ... has he been sent off many times for Magheracloone or not?
Paul Finlay also got some thump to the jaw in the Derry/Monaghan game. It was the first incident in the game. As the referee threw the ball up to commence the game, Finlay's marker struck him from behind with his fist to the jaw.
I would imagine they used the Doherty incident as a trip attempt not a kick.
I would also say that the Mullan one was explained as looking worse than it was and that he was kicking out to get McManus to release.
Monaghan possibly tried to go in with all guns blazing demanding the ban be scrapped completely and figured they could rely on influence to help.
In all cases I think they got it right.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 05:27:47 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 04:09:26 PM
I have said Mullan deserves a ban whether he kneed him in the balls, stomach, eyebrow, calf, back, tooth, earlobe, big toe. It doesn't matter. My point is he deserves the same as Tommy McGuigan as it was the same offence.
Looking at the bigger picture, two wrongs don't make a right. I know the recent McGuigan case is being cited, but 4 weeks is hardly appropriate for a knee in the nuts when, as i have already mentioned, Finlay got 8 weeks last year for verbals with the ref.
BTW, is there a video link to the Tommy McGuigan incident?
I completely agree Maguire which is why I said Tommy should have got 8 weeks, then Mullan would have had to take 8 weeks as well. Perhaps contradicting myself slightly in the fact that if its there to be appealed then why not? I just think if the previous incident had have got the proper suspension Mullan's would follow with no questions asked. Think that makes sense?
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:36:31 PM
We're not talking about both teams - We're talking about Tommy Freeman - I said he had been sent of many times for his club and was no angel - you called me out - well back it up then.
Well which is it? Hot air or truth?
You can't bullshit the truth ... has he been sent off many times for Magheracloone or not?
You clearly didn't. But it suits you now to change your story to club football when you've realised his disciplinary record for county.
And
you may only be talking about Tommy Freeman, but it hardly makes sense to talk about his disciplinary record outside of the context of other players - you compared his record to
"almost any footballer on that county team". Anyway, you still haven't cited any specific examples to support your argument - if there are many, as you claim, you should be able to mention 5 at least.
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
I would imagine they used the Doherty incident as a trip attempt not a kick.
Believe it or not, there was more than one Doherty inclident. You're referring to another one.
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
I would also say that the Mullan one was explained as looking worse than it was and that he was kicking out to get McManus to release.
What a load of bull. It's clear that he was free of McManus before the knee went in.
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
Monaghan possibly tried to go in with all guns blazing demanding the ban be scrapped completely and figured they could rely on influence to help.
In all cases I think they got it right.
Now that surprises me, because you've been totally objective to date. ::)
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 05:27:47 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 04:09:26 PM
I have said Mullan deserves a ban whether he kneed him in the balls, stomach, eyebrow, calf, back, tooth, earlobe, big toe. It doesn't matter. My point is he deserves the same as Tommy McGuigan as it was the same offence.
Looking at the bigger picture, two wrongs don't make a right. I know the recent McGuigan case is being cited, but 4 weeks is hardly appropriate for a knee in the nuts when, as i have already mentioned, Finlay got 8 weeks last year for verbals with the ref.
BTW, is there a video link to the Tommy McGuigan incident?
I completely agree Maguire which is why I said Tommy should have got 8 weeks, then Mullan would have had to take 8 weeks as well. Perhaps contradicting myself slightly in the fact that if its there to be appealed then why not? I just think if the previous incident had have got the proper suspension Mullan's would follow with no questions asked. Think that makes sense?
why do you only mention tommy , Ricey got a 8 week ban for a hell of a lot less than Mullan so why not compare Ricey's ban against Mullans and looking at that Mullan should have got 12 weeks
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:03:52 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 05:27:47 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 04:09:26 PM
I have said Mullan deserves a ban whether he kneed him in the balls, stomach, eyebrow, calf, back, tooth, earlobe, big toe. It doesn't matter. My point is he deserves the same as Tommy McGuigan as it was the same offence.
Looking at the bigger picture, two wrongs don't make a right. I know the recent McGuigan case is being cited, but 4 weeks is hardly appropriate for a knee in the nuts when, as i have already mentioned, Finlay got 8 weeks last year for verbals with the ref.
BTW, is there a video link to the Tommy McGuigan incident?
I completely agree Maguire which is why I said Tommy should have got 8 weeks, then Mullan would have had to take 8 weeks as well. Perhaps contradicting myself slightly in the fact that if its there to be appealed then why not? I just think if the previous incident had have got the proper suspension Mullan's would follow with no questions asked. Think that makes sense?
why do you only mention tommy , Ricey got a 8 week ban for a hell of a lot less than Mullan so why not compare Ricey's ban against Mullans and looking at that Mullan should have got 12 weeks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWdJ7JuTaWE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWdJ7JuTaWE)
::)
Out of the 3 incidents, Ricey's was the one that would have done least damage.
oh thats what Ricey got the 8 weeks for
they went back over the last 10 years clips and he got a ban to cover all this
One minute you derry wans are telling us that Derry wasnt going to appeal Mullins ban because what he done was wrong and he deserved the 8 weeks now he was right to appeal and he really didnt deserve to be banned for that long at all
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:34:25 PM
oh thats what Ricey got the 8 weeks for
they went back over the last 10 years clips and he got a ban to cover all this
One minute you derry wans are telling us that Derry wasnt going to appeal Mullins ban because what he done was wrong and he deserved the 8 weeks now he was right to appeal and he really didnt deserve to be banned for that long at all
Sorry are we meant to be mind readers now and know what the County Board are doing? I said I don't think we should have appealed it and I haven't changed my mind about that!
Brolly claims on public radio that Fergal's face and arm was purposely and maliciously stamped upon by some Monaghan boot as he lay on the ground and had blood pumping from a wound afterwards. This is a very serious allegation. Does it have any merit?
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 07:37:26 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:34:25 PM
oh thats what Ricey got the 8 weeks for
they went back over the last 10 years clips and he got a ban to cover all this
One minute you derry wans are telling us that Derry wasnt going to appeal Mullins ban because what he done was wrong and he deserved the 8 weeks now he was right to appeal and he really didnt deserve to be banned for that long at all
Sorry are we meant to be mind readers now and know what the County Board are doing? I said I don't think we should have appealed it and I haven't changed my mind about that!
No but it would have been wise to find out what the CB were doing before lording them for not appealing it.
Quote from: supersarsfields on June 11, 2009, 08:04:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 07:37:26 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:34:25 PM
oh thats what Ricey got the 8 weeks for
they went back over the last 10 years clips and he got a ban to cover all this
One minute you derry wans are telling us that Derry wasnt going to appeal Mullins ban because what he done was wrong and he deserved the 8 weeks now he was right to appeal and he really didnt deserve to be banned for that long at all
Sorry are we meant to be mind readers now and know what the County Board are doing? I said I don't think we should have appealed it and I haven't changed my mind about that!
No but it would have been wise to find out what the CB were doing before lording them for not appealing it.
They didn't appeal the ban, they got it reduced to its appropriate length.
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:03:52 PM
why do you only mention tommy , Ricey got a 8 week ban for a hell of a lot less than Mullan so why not compare Ricey's ban against Mullans and looking at that Mullan should have got 12 weeks
Because the "Tommy" incident was very like the Mullan one. i.e. they both kneed a man in the balls. The Ricey incident is irrelevant in this.
And just to remind you, the Tyrone county board sought to get Tommy's ban overturned. did you agree with that??
so you pick the ban that suits and neither of them was like the knee that mullin drove in
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 11, 2009, 09:42:49 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on June 11, 2009, 08:04:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 07:37:26 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:34:25 PM
oh thats what Ricey got the 8 weeks for
they went back over the last 10 years clips and he got a ban to cover all this
One minute you derry wans are telling us that Derry wasnt going to appeal Mullins ban because what he done was wrong and he deserved the 8 weeks now he was right to appeal and he really didnt deserve to be banned for that long at all
Sorry are we meant to be mind readers now and know what the County Board are doing? I said I don't think we should have appealed it and I haven't changed my mind about that!
No but it would have been wise to find out what the CB were doing before lording them for not appealing it.
They didn't appeal the ban, they got it reduced to its appropriate length.
Call it what you want - it was an appeal.
And you really think 4 weeks (1 game in this case) is an appropriate sanction?
Quote from: Main Street on June 11, 2009, 07:51:55 PM
Brolly claims on public radio that Fergal's face and arm was purposely and maliciously stamped upon by some Monaghan boot as he lay on the ground and had blood pumping from a wound afterwards. This is a very serious allegation. Does it have any merit?
This photograph was taken not long after he was stamped upon. Was directly in line with Fergal when he tripped clerkin and he clearly had blood coming from his mouth. Explains why he lashed out.
http://www.hoganstand.com/Common/NewGallery/fergaldoherty2.jpg
8 weeks would have resulted in a 4 game ban. Would that have been appropriate
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on June 11, 2009, 10:36:59 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 11, 2009, 07:51:55 PM
Brolly claims on public radio that Fergal's face and arm was purposely and maliciously stamped upon by some Monaghan boot as he lay on the ground and had blood pumping from a wound afterwards. This is a very serious allegation. Does it have any merit?
This photograph was taken not long after he was stamped upon. Was directly in line with Fergal when he tripped clerkin and he clearly had blood coming from his mouth. Explains why he lashed out.
(http://www.hoganstand.com/Common/NewGallery/fergaldoherty2.jpg)
RTE didnt catch what happened
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:36:31 PM
We're not talking about both teams - We're talking about Tommy Freeman - I said he had been sent of many times for his club and was no angel - you called me out - well back it up then.
Well which is it? Hot air or truth?
You can't bullshit the truth ... has he been sent off many times for Magheracloone or not?
You clearly didn't. But it suits you now to change your story to club football when you've realised his disciplinary record for county.
And you may only be talking about Tommy Freeman, but it hardly makes sense to talk about his disciplinary record outside of the context of other players - you compared his record to "almost any footballer on that county team". Anyway, you still haven't cited any specific examples to support your argument - if there are many, as you claim, you should be able to mention 5 at least.
So you're saying he's a Saint then?
Oh ok then.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 05:52:59 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
I would imagine they used the Doherty incident as a trip attempt not a kick.
Believe it or not, there was more than one Doherty inclident. You're referring to another one.
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
I would also say that the Mullan one was explained as looking worse than it was and that he was kicking out to get McManus to release.
What a load of bull. It's clear that he was free of McManus before the knee went in.
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
Monaghan possibly tried to go in with all guns blazing demanding the ban be scrapped completely and figured they could rely on influence to help.
In all cases I think they got it right.
Now that surprises me, because you've been totally objective to date. ::)
Glad you finally agree.
Quote from: the green man on June 11, 2009, 10:41:01 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on June 11, 2009, 10:36:59 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 11, 2009, 07:51:55 PM
Brolly claims on public radio that Fergal's face and arm was purposely and maliciously stamped upon by some Monaghan boot as he lay on the ground and had blood pumping from a wound afterwards. This is a very serious allegation. Does it have any merit?
This photograph was taken not long after he was stamped upon. Was directly in line with Fergal when he tripped clerkin and he clearly had blood coming from his mouth. Explains why he lashed out.
(http://www.hoganstand.com/Common/NewGallery/fergaldoherty2.jpg)
RTE didnt catch what happened
Indiana et al will probably say that that's from when he tried to bite Dick's head off :D
Fergal in Hannibal Lector shocker.
I'd hardly call it a river of blood which Joe was eloquently describing.
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 10:52:03 PM
So you're saying he's a Saint then?
Oh ok then.
You didn't get it quite right about Tommy, not the bit that is 100% relevant.
Move on and get over it.
You can't accept that he has a poor disciplinary record ... but that's ok.
If your chairman comes out and lies I can't hardly expect you to not.
I'm not even gonna read the preceding handbags stuff in this post but at the end of the day Fergal Doherty could only be punished for what was picked out via video evidence, i.e. the kick at the shins (trip) of Clerkin. He had been reprimanded by the referee for the other incidents.
I'm absolutely furious though that the powers that be think that kneeing a man in the b*lls is worthy of a four week ban. This is disgraceful! Surely kneeing a man in the groin is a little more severe than kicking a man in the shins/tripping. This is farcical. The powers that be are blatantly saying go out and assault a man where it really hurts, lodge an appeal and we'll ban you for a month. What the hell evidence suggested that the ban was half of that originally administered??
This is not a criticism at Derry as all counties are at it. Something has to be done soon though as for me this would is the biggest detractor of the support ever!
BTW JMohan, Tommy Freeman is far from an angel in club football, you are right on that one, but that's a whole different ball game. If we exposed every players club record on here we wouldn't get very far. His county record is good, not perfect but good. Look at the most recent carry-on in your own county, one county player breaking anothers jaw in a club game in an off the ball incident? Completely premeditated and not exactly practicing sportsmanship towards his team mate. Now, go on there and lift that 6 inch block out of your green house that you just fired through it..
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:03:52 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 05:27:47 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 04:09:26 PM
I have said Mullan deserves a ban whether he kneed him in the balls, stomach, eyebrow, calf, back, tooth, earlobe, big toe. It doesn't matter. My point is he deserves the same as Tommy McGuigan as it was the same offence.
Looking at the bigger picture, two wrongs don't make a right. I know the recent McGuigan case is being cited, but 4 weeks is hardly appropriate for a knee in the nuts when, as i have already mentioned, Finlay got 8 weeks last year for verbals with the ref.
BTW, is there a video link to the Tommy McGuigan incident?
I completely agree Maguire which is why I said Tommy should have got 8 weeks, then Mullan would have had to take 8 weeks as well. Perhaps contradicting myself slightly in the fact that if its there to be appealed then why not? I just think if the previous incident had have got the proper suspension Mullan's would follow with no questions asked. Think that makes sense?
why do you only mention tommy , Ricey got a 8 week ban for a hell of a lot less than Mullan so why not compare Ricey's ban against Mullans and looking at that Mullan should have got 12 weeks
f**k me you're as thick as indiana. McGuigan KNEED sean marty in the balls, Mullan KNEED McManus in the balls, McMeniman did not knee anyone in the balls ::)
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 10:52:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:36:31 PM
We're not talking about both teams - We're talking about Tommy Freeman - I said he had been sent of many times for his club and was no angel - you called me out - well back it up then.
Well which is it? Hot air or truth?
You can't bullshit the truth ... has he been sent off many times for Magheracloone or not?
You clearly didn't. But it suits you now to change your story to club football when you've realised his disciplinary record for county.
And you may only be talking about Tommy Freeman, but it hardly makes sense to talk about his disciplinary record outside of the context of other players - you compared his record to "almost any footballer on that county team". Anyway, you still haven't cited any specific examples to support your argument - if there are many, as you claim, you should be able to mention 5 at least.
So you're saying he's a Saint then?
Oh ok then.
Who said that? I definitely didn't. I just said he didn't have the collection of red cards for Monaghan that you suggested.
Are you a bit slow?
You were caught bluffing, end of.
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 08:36:35 AM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:03:52 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 05:27:47 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 04:09:26 PM
I have said Mullan deserves a ban whether he kneed him in the balls, stomach, eyebrow, calf, back, tooth, earlobe, big toe. It doesn't matter. My point is he deserves the same as Tommy McGuigan as it was the same offence.
Looking at the bigger picture, two wrongs don't make a right. I know the recent McGuigan case is being cited, but 4 weeks is hardly appropriate for a knee in the nuts when, as i have already mentioned, Finlay got 8 weeks last year for verbals with the ref.
BTW, is there a video link to the Tommy McGuigan incident?
I completely agree Maguire which is why I said Tommy should have got 8 weeks, then Mullan would have had to take 8 weeks as well. Perhaps contradicting myself slightly in the fact that if its there to be appealed then why not? I just think if the previous incident had have got the proper suspension Mullan's would follow with no questions asked. Think that makes sense?
why do you only mention tommy , Ricey got a 8 week ban for a hell of a lot less than Mullan so why not compare Ricey's ban against Mullans and looking at that Mullan should have got 12 weeks
f**k me you're as thick as indiana. McGuigan KNEED sean marty in the balls, Mullan KNEED McManus in the balls, McMeniman did not knee anyone in the balls ::)
Then why the f**k did Ricey get 8 weeks and the other 2 only get 4 weeks doesn't make sense
Quote from: tyronefan on June 12, 2009, 09:16:29 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 08:36:35 AM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:03:52 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 05:27:47 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 11, 2009, 04:09:26 PM
I have said Mullan deserves a ban whether he kneed him in the balls, stomach, eyebrow, calf, back, tooth, earlobe, big toe. It doesn't matter. My point is he deserves the same as Tommy McGuigan as it was the same offence.
Looking at the bigger picture, two wrongs don't make a right. I know the recent McGuigan case is being cited, but 4 weeks is hardly appropriate for a knee in the nuts when, as i have already mentioned, Finlay got 8 weeks last year for verbals with the ref.
BTW, is there a video link to the Tommy McGuigan incident?
I completely agree Maguire which is why I said Tommy should have got 8 weeks, then Mullan would have had to take 8 weeks as well. Perhaps contradicting myself slightly in the fact that if its there to be appealed then why not? I just think if the previous incident had have got the proper suspension Mullan's would follow with no questions asked. Think that makes sense?
why do you only mention tommy , Ricey got a 8 week ban for a hell of a lot less than Mullan so why not compare Ricey's ban against Mullans and looking at that Mullan should have got 12 weeks
f**k me you're as thick as indiana. McGuigan KNEED sean marty in the balls, Mullan KNEED McManus in the balls, McMeniman did not knee anyone in the balls ::)
Then why the f**k did Ricey get 8 weeks and the other 2 only get 4 weeks doesn't make sense
Not sure - he was originally given 6-weeks, which was an unheard-of suspension length. maybe tyrone should have tried getting it reduced to 4 weeks (which they prob would have succeeded with) instead of trying to get it fully quashed.
Look, if it was up to me it would be like this:
McMeniman - 4 weeks (6 weeks was ridiculous)
McGuigan - 8 weeks
Mullan - 8 weeks
NO APPEALS!!
I think Id agree with that. There seriously needs to be a stop shouter.
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 09:40:36 AM
Look, if it was up to me it would be like this:
McMeniman - 4 weeks (6 weeks was ridiculous)
McGuigan - 8 weeks
Mullan - 8 weeks
NO APPEALS!!
any chance of getting you on the cccc Sidelinekick that looks more sensible
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 10:08:19 PM
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 11, 2009, 09:42:49 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on June 11, 2009, 08:04:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 07:37:26 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:34:25 PM
oh thats what Ricey got the 8 weeks for
they went back over the last 10 years clips and he got a ban to cover all this
One minute you derry wans are telling us that Derry wasnt going to appeal Mullins ban because what he done was wrong and he deserved the 8 weeks now he was right to appeal and he really didnt deserve to be banned for that long at all
Sorry are we meant to be mind readers now and know what the County Board are doing? I said I don't think we should have appealed it and I haven't changed my mind about that!
No but it would have been wise to find out what the CB were doing before lording them for not appealing it.
They didn't appeal the ban, they got it reduced to its appropriate length.
Call it what you want - it was an appeal.
And you really think 4 weeks (1 game in this case) is an appropriate sanction?
Whether or not you or I or anyone else feels it was appropriate, the rules have to be adhered to. The suspension for the charges against both players by the rules should be 4 weeks. From what I have read the appeal was about the lenght of ban applied for both incidents and that they did not match up with what the rules say the ban should have been.
You cant add on an extra 4 weeks just because you want to.
Quote from: tyronefan on June 12, 2009, 10:20:49 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 09:40:36 AM
Look, if it was up to me it would be like this:
McMeniman - 4 weeks (6 weeks was ridiculous)
McGuigan - 8 weeks
Mullan - 8 weeks
NO APPEALS!!
any chance of getting you on the cccc Sidelinekick that looks more sensible
I just think the whole appeals business is getting out of hand. I had a go a while back at Tyrone and all theri appeals but now Derry are on the same route, yes I agree with them because it keeps it in line with previous suspensions, but I would be happier if the option wasn't there!
Tyrone tried to get suspension changed from 6 weeks to 4 weeks as a 6 weeks suspension was unheard of. If Ricey had of got 4 weeks he would have missed 1 game, when he got 6 weeks he missed 4 games, the same he would have missed with an 8 week suspension. The whole disciplinary procedure is up the left, should be a game(s) ban rather than a week(s) ban
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 12, 2009, 10:28:43 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 10:08:19 PM
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 11, 2009, 09:42:49 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on June 11, 2009, 08:04:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 07:37:26 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:34:25 PM
oh thats what Ricey got the 8 weeks for
they went back over the last 10 years clips and he got a ban to cover all this
One minute you derry wans are telling us that Derry wasnt going to appeal Mullins ban because what he done was wrong and he deserved the 8 weeks now he was right to appeal and he really didnt deserve to be banned for that long at all
Sorry are we meant to be mind readers now and know what the County Board are doing? I said I don't think we should have appealed it and I haven't changed my mind about that!
No but it would have been wise to find out what the CB were doing before lording them for not appealing it.
They didn't appeal the ban, they got it reduced to its appropriate length.
Call it what you want - it was an appeal.
And you really think 4 weeks (1 game in this case) is an appropriate sanction?
Whether or not you or I or anyone else feels it was appropriate, the rules have to be adhered to. The suspension for the charges against both players by the rules should be 4 weeks. From what I have read the appeal was about the lenght of ban applied for both incidents and that they did not match up with what the rules say the ban should have been.
You cant add on an extra 4 weeks just because you want to.
But thats what they done in Riceys case
why was he treated differently that the other 2
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 12, 2009, 10:32:18 AM
Tyrone tried to get suspension changed from 6 weeks to 4 weeks as a 6 weeks suspension was unheard of. If Ricey had of got 4 weeks he would have missed 1 game, when he got 6 weeks he missed 4 games, the same he would have missed with an 8 week suspension. The whole disciplinary procedure is up the left, should be a game(s) ban rather than a week(s) ban
DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Completely agree Archie!
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on June 12, 2009, 08:24:36 AM
I'm not even gonna read the preceding handbags stuff in this post but at the end of the day Fergal Doherty could only be punished for what was picked out via video evidence, i.e. the kick at the shins (trip) of Clerkin. He had been reprimanded by the referee for the other incidents.
I'm absolutely furious though that the powers that be think that kneeing a man in the b*lls is worthy of a four week ban. This is disgraceful! Surely kneeing a man in the groin is a little more severe than kicking a man in the shins/tripping. This is farcical. The powers that be are blatantly saying go out and assault a man where it really hurts, lodge an appeal and we'll ban you for a month. What the hell evidence suggested that the ban was half of that originally administered??
This is not a criticism at Derry as all counties are at it. Something has to be done soon though as for me this would is the biggest detractor of the support ever!
BTW JMohan, Tommy Freeman is far from an angel in club football, you are right on that one, but that's a whole different ball game. If we exposed every players club record on here we wouldn't get very far. His county record is good, not perfect but good. Look at the most recent carry-on in your own county, one county player breaking anothers jaw in a club game in an off the ball incident? Completely premeditated and not exactly practicing sportsmanship towards his team mate. Now, go on there and lift that 6 inch block out of your green house that you just fired through it..
I dont think there is anything in the rules that says kneeing in the groin is any more dangerous than kneeing on any other part of the body. The rule applied will be against kneeing....where the knee was to wont make a difference.
Quote from: tyronefan on June 12, 2009, 10:32:53 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 12, 2009, 10:28:43 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 10:08:19 PM
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 11, 2009, 09:42:49 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on June 11, 2009, 08:04:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2009, 07:37:26 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on June 11, 2009, 07:34:25 PM
oh thats what Ricey got the 8 weeks for
they went back over the last 10 years clips and he got a ban to cover all this
One minute you derry wans are telling us that Derry wasnt going to appeal Mullins ban because what he done was wrong and he deserved the 8 weeks now he was right to appeal and he really didnt deserve to be banned for that long at all
Sorry are we meant to be mind readers now and know what the County Board are doing? I said I don't think we should have appealed it and I haven't changed my mind about that!
No but it would have been wise to find out what the CB were doing before lording them for not appealing it.
They didn't appeal the ban, they got it reduced to its appropriate length.
Call it what you want - it was an appeal.
And you really think 4 weeks (1 game in this case) is an appropriate sanction?
Whether or not you or I or anyone else feels it was appropriate, the rules have to be adhered to. The suspension for the charges against both players by the rules should be 4 weeks. From what I have read the appeal was about the lenght of ban applied for both incidents and that they did not match up with what the rules say the ban should have been.
You cant add on an extra 4 weeks just because you want to.
But thats what they done in Riceys case
why was he treated differently that the other 2
I dont know the ins and outs of it but I can only assume when the CCC looked at the case they realised the mistake had been made but the mistake was that 8 weeks should have been given in the first place and when the ban wasnt overturned they applied the correct ban. They cant make any decision unless it is in the rules....if the 8 wee ban had been wrong Tryone could have taken it further. If it was so wrong why didnt they do that?
Also on a different note, read in todays Gaelic Life that the police are currently investigating 2 assualt charges at GAA games in Tyrone. Anyone of you tironnies know anything about that?
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 12, 2009, 10:28:43 AM
Whether or not you or I or anyone else feels it was appropriate, the rules have to be adhered to. The suspension for the charges against both players by the rules should be 4 weeks. From what I have read the appeal was about the lenght of ban applied for both incidents and that they did not match up with what the rules say the ban should have been.
You cant add on an extra 4 weeks just because you want to.
Read the Official Guide. For a category 2 offense it says
Minimum Suspension 4 weeks, whereas for a category 1 (2 yellows) it has a
fixed penalty. There's a level of discretion there for the Committee in Charge and the sooner the CCCC grow a set and start applying more than minimum suspension on a regular basis, the sooner this kind of shite will be cut out.
Quote from: tyrone86 on June 12, 2009, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 12, 2009, 10:28:43 AM
Whether or not you or I or anyone else feels it was appropriate, the rules have to be adhered to. The suspension for the charges against both players by the rules should be 4 weeks. From what I have read the appeal was about the lenght of ban applied for both incidents and that they did not match up with what the rules say the ban should have been.
You cant add on an extra 4 weeks just because you want to.
Read the Official Guide. For a category 2 offense it says Minimum Suspension 4 weeks, whereas for a category 1 (2 yellows) it has a fixed penalty. There's a level of discretion there for the Committee in Charge and the sooner the CCCC grow a set and start applying more than minimum suspension on a regular basis, the sooner this kind of shite will be cut out.
Discretion is one thing, but you still have to have ground to give a suspension more than the minmum. With all the appeals we see these days all it would take is for one case to be unfairly dealt with to open the flood gates to all sorts of bans being quashed outright. So I reckon there will only ever be the minimum ban given unless there is 100% certainty they can get away with dishing out more.
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 12, 2009, 10:45:16 AM
Discretion is one thing, but you still have to have ground to give a suspension more than the minmum. With all the appeals we see these days all it would take is for one case to be unfairly dealt with to open the flood gates to all sorts of bans being quashed outright. So I reckon there will only ever be the minimum ban given unless there is 100% certainty they can get away with dishing out more.
The only issue I'd take with that is that as far as I know that suspensions can't be thrown out on technicalities any more. It's fair enough I suppose, it just illustrates why the whole disciplinary system has to be overhauled.
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 12, 2009, 10:39:10 AM
Also on a different note, read in todays Gaelic Life that the police are currently investigating 2 assualt charges at GAA games in Tyrone. Anyone of you tironnies know anything about that?
There's bits and pieces on it on the Tyrone thread
A good start to overhauling would be if the ref and citing group did not depend solely on photos and RTE highlights to make their case against a player, to enhance the refs report. What little effort (30 mins each) does it take for 4 people to view all the camera angle footage with the aid of a remote control and select all the relevant bits?
This is a nonsense where the citing group assume the RTE pundits get it right, the televised angle is the only one and act accordingly with charging a player. Heavy sentence of 8 weeks is passed (according to how many tut tuts are heard) and then leave it up to the player to prove himself less guilty than their one dimensional public relations inspired paranoia idea of what happened.
I love the way the papersand nobody has mentioned the attempted eye gouge by Doherty.
Brolly has alot to answer for and would love to see him face to face with Banty to try and explain himself.
Brolly has shown everyone what a leech he really is
Interesting to hear Brolly's comments on Drivetime last night.
He was part of the defense for the two Derry lads & talks about getting other BBC footage that wasn't shown and once they saw that then they were happy he was not the aggressor.
They also mention that Doherty got stamped on & kicked & that the Monaghan aggressor is clearly identifiable but Joe didn't want to go further into it as maybe more action will be taken on him.
You can listen to it hear
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_drivetimesport.xml (http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_drivetimesport.xml)
Quote from: Joxer on June 12, 2009, 11:21:36 AM
I love the way the papersand nobody has mentioned the attempted eye gouge by Doherty.
Brolly has alot to answer for and would love to see him face to face with Banty to try and explain himself.
Brolly has shown everyone what a leech he really is
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Quote from: Joxer on June 12, 2009, 11:21:36 AM
I love the way the papersand nobody has mentioned the attempted eye gouge by Doherty.
Brolly has alot to answer for and would love to see him face to face with Banty to try and explain himself.
Brolly has shown everyone what a leech he really is
Jesus so would I, Brolly can handle himself with anyone, why could he not with Banty? ::)
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: Joxer on June 12, 2009, 11:21:36 AM
I love the way the papersand nobody has mentioned the attempted eye gouge by Doherty.
Brolly has alot to answer for and would love to see him face to face with Banty to try and explain himself.
Brolly has shown everyone what a leech he really is
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.
The ref was standing directly over the love tussle on the ground and was in a perfect position to see if Fergal was loosening himself or eye gouging.
His match report should have been the definitive one, instead I was under the impression that he changed his report after viewing this photo
and elevated the seriousness of the incident, rather dubiously imo.
(http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00324/fergaldoherty_indo_324888t.jpg)
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.
I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.
Only a person not familiar with the ways of adverserial defense would fall for Brolly's blackening of Clerkin to whiten up Fergal.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.
I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.
There's a reason for that.
Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times. As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.
He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:15:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.
I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.
There's a reason for that.
Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times. As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.
He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.
And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.
I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!
Just listened to the Drivetime sport there with Joe and it seems we don't know much about the disciplinary system at all. It would seem that Derry did not actually appeal the suspension but that the bans don't get imposed until the CHC meet and players get a chance to make their case to have the ban reduced or else they can just accept the punishment. Does this mean there is a further appeals process and then you can go to the DRA??
Anyway as mentioned by Joe the 2 Derry lads definitely did wrong in their incidents but there is strong evidence to show that neither Derry man was the instigator or aggressor of either incident. Fair enough and the way I would have seen both incidents. As for the stamping on the face incident well I hope that this new video evidence is acted upon and the sc**bag who committed the act gets what's coming to him.
As stated before I am glad both Derry men have admitted they did wrong and are accepting of their punishments. Again Indiana you have shown yourself to be wrong as it was accepted by the disciplinary committee that Mullan did not knee the Monaghan player in the groin area but rather the in the chest... By no means a manly act but some of the shite you've been spouting about him is just plain wrong and you should take back a number of your comments.
As for Banty and Joe well it wouldn't be difficult to decide who would win that debate! Loved the bit at the end where Con was winding him up about being a 'Queen's Counsel'. "God I would never swear an oath to that woman... not that there's anything wrong with her in particular I'm sure she's a lovely woman" :D :D :D
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2009, 12:29:20 PM
it was accepted by the disciplinary committee that Mullan did not knee the Monaghan player in the groin area but rather the in the chest...
I hadn't read that - have you a source?
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2009, 12:29:20 PM
Just listened to the Drivetime sport there with Joe and it seems we don't know much about the disciplinary system at all. It would seem that Derry did not actually appeal the suspension but that the bans don't get imposed until the CHC meet and players get a chance to make their case to have the ban reduced or else they can just accept the punishment. Does this mean there is a further appeals process and then you can go to the DRA??
Anyway as mentioned by Joe the 2 Derry lads definitely did wrong in their incidents but there is strong evidence to show that neither Derry man was the instigator or aggressor of either incident. Fair enough and the way I would have seen both incidents. As for the stamping on the face incident well I hope that this new video evidence is acted upon and the sc**bag who committed the act gets what's coming to him.
As stated before I am glad both Derry men have admitted they did wrong and are accepting of their punishments. Again Indiana you have shown yourself to be wrong as it was accepted by the disciplinary committee that Mullan did not knee the Monaghan player in the groin area but rather the in the chest... By no means a manly act but some of the shite you've been spouting about him is just plain wrong and you should take back a number of your comments.
As for Banty and Joe well it wouldn't be difficult to decide who would win that debate! Loved the bit at the end where Con was winding him up about being a 'Queen's Counsel'. "God I would never swear an oath to that woman... not that there's anything wrong with her in particular I'm sure she's a lovely woman" :D :D :D
Total bullshit....no more than i'd expect!
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:15:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.
I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.
There's a reason for that.
Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times. As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.
He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.
And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.
I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!
So those qualities are what makes a good player? Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves. I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.
I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.
It's on the Drivetime sport podcast if you want to have a listen to it.
http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-25m30s-110609-drivetimesportthursday.mp3 (http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-25m30s-110609-drivetimesportthursday.mp3)
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2009, 12:29:20 PM
Anyway as mentioned by Joe the 2 Derry lads definitely did wrong in their incidents but there is strong evidence to show that neither Derry man was the instigator or aggressor of either incident.
Eh? Are you having a laugh? How was Mullan not the agressor in his incident?
Both Mullan and McManus were tangled up in each other - both probably equally to blame in going down (Mullan had his arm around McManus just as much as McManus around him). McManus didn't do anything to instigate a knee, wherever the target.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 12:43:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2009, 12:29:20 PM
Anyway as mentioned by Joe the 2 Derry lads definitely did wrong in their incidents but there is strong evidence to show that neither Derry man was the instigator or aggressor of either incident.
Eh? Are you having a laugh? How was Mullan not the agressor in his incident?
Both Mullan and McManus were tangled up in each other - both probably equally to blame in going down (Mullan had his arm around McManus just as much as McManus around him). McManus didn't do anything to instigate a knee, wherever the target.
Sorry McManus didn't wrestle him to the ground when the ball was gone??? It's plain to see on the video!
I'm not condoning the knee but you can't say there wasn't some provocation before it. I fully accept that he should never have lifted his knee at all. BUt had McManus not pulled him down would it have happened at all??
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2009, 12:45:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 12:43:34 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2009, 12:29:20 PM
Anyway as mentioned by Joe the 2 Derry lads definitely did wrong in their incidents but there is strong evidence to show that neither Derry man was the instigator or aggressor of either incident.
Eh? Are you having a laugh? How was Mullan not the agressor in his incident?
Both Mullan and McManus were tangled up in each other - both probably equally to blame in going down (Mullan had his arm around McManus just as much as McManus around him). McManus didn't do anything to instigate a knee, wherever the target.
Sorry McManus didn't wrestle him to the ground when the ball was gone??? It's plain to see on the video!
I'm not condoning the knee but you can't say there wasn't some provocation before it. I fully accept that he should never have lifted his knee at all. BUt had McManus not pulled him down would it have happened at all??
Can you post the link again? I thought McManus had his arm around Mullan's body, but that Mullan also had his arm around McManus's head.
Plain to see Mullen had his arm around his neck. Both sides will argue the point but reality is both had a hold of each other.
Just looking at the kneeing incident again there, not a chance Mullen kneed him in the chest. It is hard to see if he actually hit him bang in the groin but if it wasn't that it was certainly lower abdomen. May not be much different to the chest you may say but it still looks like he connected with the groin area to me. Anyway, fact is he kneed him, should it matter where? Maybe the rules state a minimum 4 week suspension but this was dangerous and deserved the 8 in my opinion.
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:15:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.
I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.
There's a reason for that.
Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times. As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.
He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.
And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.
I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!
So those qualities are what makes a good player? Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves. I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.
I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.
Not qualities of a good player but of a lesser player looking to even the playing field. It happens in the vast majority of games played, one way or other. Dick does go overboard at times and defo gets himself in trouble.
I'd away with your assessment and can understand your bias.
The issue I would have is that Dick Clerkin shouldn't be as big a factor in all of this as Brolly and Co have made him out to be. It was complete character assisnation. Doc made his own decisions on how to act that day and he acted the maggot on more than one occassion. We are all responsible for our actions and should take it on the chin. Brollys defence would appear to be that it was all Dicks fault and the Doc was acting in self defence! He's an experienced intercounty midfield player, he should be laughing at the likes of Clerkin.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 08:59:29 AM
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 10:52:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 11, 2009, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 11, 2009, 05:36:31 PM
We're not talking about both teams - We're talking about Tommy Freeman - I said he had been sent of many times for his club and was no angel - you called me out - well back it up then.
Well which is it? Hot air or truth?
You can't bullshit the truth ... has he been sent off many times for Magheracloone or not?
You clearly didn't. But it suits you now to change your story to club football when you've realised his disciplinary record for county.
And you may only be talking about Tommy Freeman, but it hardly makes sense to talk about his disciplinary record outside of the context of other players - you compared his record to "almost any footballer on that county team". Anyway, you still haven't cited any specific examples to support your argument - if there are many, as you claim, you should be able to mention 5 at least.
So you're saying he's a Saint then?
Oh ok then.
Who said that? I definitely didn't. I just said he didn't have the collection of red cards for Monaghan that you suggested.
Are you a bit slow?
You were caught bluffing, end of.
He's a dirty player and the truth is hard to accept isn't it ... ;D
Relax - he'll be back in a few weeks anyway.
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:15:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.
I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.
There's a reason for that.
Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times. As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.
He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.
And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.
I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!
So those qualities are what makes a good player? Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves. I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.
I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.
Not qualities of a good player but of a lesser player looking to even the playing field. It happens in the vast majority of games played, one way or other. Dick does go overboard at times and defo gets himself in trouble.
I'd away with your assessment and can understand your bias.
The issue I would have is that Dick Clerkin shouldn't be as big a factor in all of this as Brolly and Co have made him out to be. It was complete character assisnation. Doc made his own decisions on how to act that day and he acted the maggot on more than one occassion. We are all responsible for our actions and should take it on the chin. Brollys defence would appear to be that it was all Dicks fault and the Doc was acting in self defence! He's an experienced intercounty midfield player, he should be laughing at the likes of Clerkin.
Dry your eyes bingobus! Dick acted the maggot all day and fingers crossed maybe he'll get reprimanded now too based on the new video evidence.
I think in the interests of fairness, natural justice and a level playing field this should be the case. ;D ;)
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 12, 2009, 04:20:58 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:15:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.
I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.
There's a reason for that.
Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times. As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.
He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.
And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.
I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!
So those qualities are what makes a good player? Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves. I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.
I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.
Not qualities of a good player but of a lesser player looking to even the playing field. It happens in the vast majority of games played, one way or other. Dick does go overboard at times and defo gets himself in trouble.
I'd away with your assessment and can understand your bias.
The issue I would have is that Dick Clerkin shouldn't be as big a factor in all of this as Brolly and Co have made him out to be. It was complete character assisnation. Doc made his own decisions on how to act that day and he acted the maggot on more than one occassion. We are all responsible for our actions and should take it on the chin. Brollys defence would appear to be that it was all Dicks fault and the Doc was acting in self defence! He's an experienced intercounty midfield player, he should be laughing at the likes of Clerkin.
Dry your eyes bingobus! Dick acted the maggot all day and fingers crossed maybe he'll get reprimanded now too based on the new video evidence.
I think in the interests of fairness, natural justice and a level playing field this should be the case. ;D ;)
In that case a number of other incidents may also be captured by Brollys CCTV:
McGoldrick thumping Finlay from behind as the ball was been thrown in,
Doc stepping on Dessies Mones back after about ten minutes when he could have avoided it (has he also recently been accused of doing this in a club match?)
Cassidy telling his players at half time to do whatever they wanted to the Monaghan players as it was clear the umpires weren't going to do anything.
I'll look forward to the above been dealt with.
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 12, 2009, 04:20:58 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:15:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.
I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.
There's a reason for that.
Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times. As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.
He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.
And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.
I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!
So those qualities are what makes a good player? Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves. I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.
I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.
Not qualities of a good player but of a lesser player looking to even the playing field. It happens in the vast majority of games played, one way or other. Dick does go overboard at times and defo gets himself in trouble.
I'd away with your assessment and can understand your bias.
The issue I would have is that Dick Clerkin shouldn't be as big a factor in all of this as Brolly and Co have made him out to be. It was complete character assisnation. Doc made his own decisions on how to act that day and he acted the maggot on more than one occassion. We are all responsible for our actions and should take it on the chin. Brollys defence would appear to be that it was all Dicks fault and the Doc was acting in self defence! He's an experienced intercounty midfield player, he should be laughing at the likes of Clerkin.
Dry your eyes bingobus! Dick acted the maggot all day and fingers crossed maybe he'll get reprimanded now too based on the new video evidence.
I think in the interests of fairness, natural justice and a level playing field this should be the case. ;D ;)
In that case a number of other incidents may also be captured by Brollys CCTV:
McGoldrick thumping Finlay from behind as the ball was been thrown in,
Doc stepping on Dessies Mones back after about ten minutes when he could have avoided it (has he also recently been accused of doing this in a club match?)
Cassidy telling his players at half time to do whatever they wanted to the Monaghan players as it was clear the umpires weren't going to do anything.
I'll look forward to the above been dealt with.
I'll be looking forward to the video evidence of this. If there's CCTV in the changing rooms then we're into a whole different ball game altogether!
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 04:36:37 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 12, 2009, 04:20:58 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 12:15:05 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2009, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day ::)
Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.
I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.
There's a reason for that.
Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times. As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.
He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.
And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.
I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!
So those qualities are what makes a good player? Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves. I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.
I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.
Not qualities of a good player but of a lesser player looking to even the playing field. It happens in the vast majority of games played, one way or other. Dick does go overboard at times and defo gets himself in trouble.
I'd away with your assessment and can understand your bias.
The issue I would have is that Dick Clerkin shouldn't be as big a factor in all of this as Brolly and Co have made him out to be. It was complete character assisnation. Doc made his own decisions on how to act that day and he acted the maggot on more than one occassion. We are all responsible for our actions and should take it on the chin. Brollys defence would appear to be that it was all Dicks fault and the Doc was acting in self defence! He's an experienced intercounty midfield player, he should be laughing at the likes of Clerkin.
Dry your eyes bingobus! Dick acted the maggot all day and fingers crossed maybe he'll get reprimanded now too based on the new video evidence.
I think in the interests of fairness, natural justice and a level playing field this should be the case. ;D ;)
In that case a number of other incidents may also be captured by Brollys CCTV:
McGoldrick thumping Finlay from behind as the ball was been thrown in,
Doc stepping on Dessies Mones back after about ten minutes when he could have avoided it (has he also recently been accused of doing this in a club match?)
Cassidy telling his players at half time to do whatever they wanted to the Monaghan players as it was clear the umpires weren't going to do anything.
I'll look forward to the above been dealt with.
I'll be looking forward to the video evidence of this. If there's CCTV in the changing rooms then we're into a whole different ball game altogether!
Well Big Brother Brolly seemed to cameras coming out his Arse, so he may have one there as well.
Puts the argument that Derry where provoked into context.
Puts the argument that Derry where provoked into context.
What does ???
Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc
Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2009, 12:42:54 PM
It's on the Drivetime sport podcast if you want to have a listen to it.
http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-25m30s-110609-drivetimesportthursday.mp3 (http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-25m30s-110609-drivetimesportthursday.mp3)
just listened to the recording. I hope they throw the book at the tr**p that put the studs into fergals face.
Total disgrace. Just what you would expect of Monaghan. At the end of the day it was McEnaney that encouraged this dirt.
The players just didn't decide to act the maggot - they where coached to do it.
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:51:35 PM
Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc
Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.
Where are you getting that from can I ask?
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:51:35 PM
Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc
Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.
Where are you getting that from can I ask?
I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:55:24 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:51:35 PM
Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc
Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.
Where are you getting that from can I ask?
I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.
You were told by someone who was told by someone else? ::) **Sighs**
You can't be serious? Where did this Derry man hear from the Derry players? Plural I might add. Was it a public meeting where they all stood together and stated this?
Cassidy's style? Says a Banty follower.
(http://loudounlady.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/pot-kettle-black.jpg)
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 05:00:21 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:55:24 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:51:35 PM
Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc
Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.
Where are you getting that from can I ask?
I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.
You were told by someone who was told by someone else? ::) **Sighs**
You can't be serious? Where did this Derry man hear from the Derry players? Plural I might add. Was it a public meeting where they all stood together and stated this?
Cassidy's style? Says a Banty follower.
I don't like Bantys style, no problem saying that, always have.
You believe what you want, this person voluntered the info to me and I'd have no reason to doubt him.
Ask a Derry player if you like. Did you expect me to say Cassidy himself told me!!!
I really don't care if you believe me or not tbh.
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on June 12, 2009, 04:52:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2009, 12:42:54 PM
It's on the Drivetime sport podcast if you want to have a listen to it.
http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-25m30s-110609-drivetimesportthursday.mp3 (http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-25m30s-110609-drivetimesportthursday.mp3)
just listened to the recording. I hope they throw the book at the tr**p that put the studs into fergals face.
Total disgrace. Just what you would expect of Monaghan. At the end of the day it was McEnaney that encouraged this dirt.
The players just didn't decide to act the maggot - they where coached to do it.
Four weeks seems to be the run of the mill punishment for cowardly acts
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 05:00:21 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:55:24 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:51:35 PM
Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc
Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.
Where are you getting that from can I ask?
I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.
You were told by someone who was told by someone else? ::) **Sighs**
You can't be serious? Where did this Derry man hear from the Derry players? Plural I might add. Was it a public meeting where they all stood together and stated this?
Cassidy's style? Says a Banty follower.
I don't like Bantys style, no problem saying that, always have.
You believe what you want, this person voluntered the info to me and I'd have no reason to doubt him.
Ask a Derry player if you like. Did you expect me to say Cassidy himself told me!!!
I really don't care if you believe me or not tbh.
I'm sure you don't bingobus but by the same token you are believing what you want to hear. Had the same person told you Cassidy told the players to stick to football I'm quite sure you would have dismissed it very quickly as lies.
I would doubt that Cass would encourage his players to "do whatever they want" on the basis that the umpires "will do nothing". It's a bit of a stupid risk do you not think? I think you're believing what you want to believe he said, but if you stood back and looked at it logically you'd realise it's very unlikely.
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 05:14:08 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 05:00:21 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:55:24 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:51:35 PM
Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc
Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.
Where are you getting that from can I ask?
I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.
You were told by someone who was told by someone else? ::) **Sighs**
You can't be serious? Where did this Derry man hear from the Derry players? Plural I might add. Was it a public meeting where they all stood together and stated this?
Cassidy's style? Says a Banty follower.
I don't like Bantys style, no problem saying that, always have.
You believe what you want, this person voluntered the info to me and I'd have no reason to doubt him.
Ask a Derry player if you like. Did you expect me to say Cassidy himself told me!!!
I really don't care if you believe me or not tbh.
I'm sure you don't bingobus but by the same token you are believing what you want to hear. Had the same person told you Cassidy told the players to stick to football I'm quite sure you would have dismissed it very quickly as lies.
I would doubt that Cass would encourage his players to "do whatever they want" on the basis that the umpires "will do nothing". It's a bit of a stupid risk do you not think? I think you're believing what you want to believe he said, but if you stood back and looked at it logically you'd realise it's very unlikely.
Well the second half evidence would suggest that some players did do exactly what they wanted. If you looked at it logically of course.
Is it a risk? First half, umpires do nothing and plenty happening. Second half, the same. Worst case is we get one man sent off. Could take one of them with us?
Managers are there to take risks, calculated ones. Everything is at stake.
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 05:23:14 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 05:14:08 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 05:00:21 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:55:24 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 04:51:35 PM
Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc
Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.
Where are you getting that from can I ask?
I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.
You were told by someone who was told by someone else? ::) **Sighs**
You can't be serious? Where did this Derry man hear from the Derry players? Plural I might add. Was it a public meeting where they all stood together and stated this?
Cassidy's style? Says a Banty follower.
I don't like Bantys style, no problem saying that, always have.
You believe what you want, this person voluntered the info to me and I'd have no reason to doubt him.
Ask a Derry player if you like. Did you expect me to say Cassidy himself told me!!!
I really don't care if you believe me or not tbh.
I'm sure you don't bingobus but by the same token you are believing what you want to hear. Had the same person told you Cassidy told the players to stick to football I'm quite sure you would have dismissed it very quickly as lies.
I would doubt that Cass would encourage his players to "do whatever they want" on the basis that the umpires "will do nothing". It's a bit of a stupid risk do you not think? I think you're believing what you want to believe he said, but if you stood back and looked at it logically you'd realise it's very unlikely.
Well the second half evidence would suggest that some players did do exactly what they wanted. If you looked at it logically of course.
Is it a risk? First half, umpires do nothing and plenty happening. Second half, the same. Worst case is we get one man sent off. Could take one of them with us?
Managers are there to take risks, calculated ones. Everything is at stake.
True. But perhaps he let rip at a few boys that he thought were being walked over. the players themselves certainly could have taken the "I'll show him" attitude. I don't think there's any point in speculating over what Cass might have told his players.
I'm sure you have no reason to doubt your source (apart from the fact its 3rd person information), but some people thrive on controversial changing room, training, weekends away stories.
I'm sure Banty's words at half time mirrored what Cass was saying. Although I realise you have already made you position clear with regards to banty.
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 05:28:20 PM
True. But perhaps he let rip at a few boys that he thought were being walked over. the players themselves certainly could have taken the "I'll show him" attitude. I don't think there's any point in speculating over what Cass might have told his players.
I'm sure you have no reason to doubt your source (apart from the fact its 3rd person information), but some people thrive on controversial changing room, training, weekends away stories.
I'm sure Banty's words at half time mirrored what Cass was saying. Although I realise you have already made you position clear with regards to banty.
I'm sure Banty had told them what to do all week, before and during the game.
I know that some players, groups of players etc have been given very specific instructions regarding opposition. Seen it first hand and know players who will tell you exactly what they were told to do. Its niave, am sure you know as much, to think otherwise.
What is annoying to me, that if this is true, and it then appears to be the basis of the appeals that they were put provoked/bullied/defending themselves/trying to break free etc etc to do what they did, it makes a totally mockery of the GAA been a honest game. Why, if true, can't Cassidy be a man and say, right we bent the rules and will pay for it?
Instead they actually look to get further suspensions imposed on opponents that they have beaten on the field and now what to beat them further off it?
The days of it been a mans game is long gone. If true of course.
Quote from: bingobus on June 12, 2009, 05:38:42 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on June 12, 2009, 05:28:20 PM
True. But perhaps he let rip at a few boys that he thought were being walked over. the players themselves certainly could have taken the "I'll show him" attitude. I don't think there's any point in speculating over what Cass might have told his players.
I'm sure you have no reason to doubt your source (apart from the fact its 3rd person information), but some people thrive on controversial changing room, training, weekends away stories.
I'm sure Banty's words at half time mirrored what Cass was saying. Although I realise you have already made you position clear with regards to banty.
I'm sure Banty had told them what to do all week, before and during the game.
I know that some players, groups of players etc have been given very specific instructions regarding opposition. Seen it first hand and know players who will tell you exactly what they were told to do. Its niave, am sure you know as much, to think otherwise.
What is annoying to me, that if this is true, and it then appears to be the basis of the appeals that they were put provoked/bullied/defending themselves/trying to break free etc etc to do what they did, it makes a totally mockery of the GAA been a honest game. Why, if true, can't Cassidy be a man and say, right we bent the rules and will pay for it?
Instead they actually look to get further suspensions imposed on opponents that they have beaten on the field and now what to beat them further off it?
The days of it been a mans game is long gone. If true of course.
Being honest I wouldn't want to start getting other players suspended. I would have liked a "what happens on the field stays on the field" game, but with an incident like Mullan's then it was pretty much impossible for that to happen.
Cassidy more or less said they bent the rules, "I make no apology" I think was his words in the interview. (So in hind sight what you said previously might not be too far off the mark :-\) Oops. I would still like to get it confirmed. Looks like 1-0 to you though.
The most annoying thing for me about the whole thing was Mullan's incident and the way it happened. I would still stick to my guns that it was McManus that bear hugged him and wrestled him to th ground originally, however, (and its a big however), Mullan was then in a position that he had freed himself and could have got up from the ground. Instead he drove the knee into McManus. Disappointing more so because I had been very impressed with Mullan all along, and hadn't wintessed him do anything like this previously. (Now your point is starting to sound even more convincing >:()
I will have to officially give you the 1-0.
Just heard from an unknown and therefore completely reliable source that Monaghan were instructed by Banty at halftime to "git stuck inty them derry bies"
Can you believe it, the dorty wee barsteward!!
I'm afraid i only have an audio recording of this as Rory Woods broke the handycam thinking it belonged to a member of the big bad medja. If any of you have an address for CCC (or Brolly's mobile number) PM me please so i can arrange for justice to be done forthwith.
1-1
Have just listened to Joe's interview. How come all of these great angles weren't shown by the BBC?
I'm also shocked that the BBC had this clear footage of someone stamping on someone's face - the wind was taken out of Joe's sails and the hearing committee were " if not shocked, certainly disturbed" - it wouldn't be like the BBC not to show this footage. In fact, you'd imagine it would secure the GAA a prime spot on Newsline!
I have already referred to the Derry appeal on the level of the charges. and how they were able to present edited selection of all the BBC angles. to support their case. Fair enough, 4 weeks is the time to pay.
The citing committee or the ref don't bother their arse to view these camera angles before pressing charges and passing sentences. They have the refs reports the odd photo and the rte sunday game, only the televised footage. The ref apparantly changed his report on Fergal after looking at a photo and upped the charge. Farcical that he can do based on a nanosecond still image.
As for Brolly continuing to whine like a scalded snitch on public radio/tv, I didn't think it was possible for him to sink lower but it appears he
has boundless capacity to do so.
The most annoying thing for me about the whole thing was Mullan's incident and the way it happened. I would still stick to my guns that it was McManus that bear hugged him and wrestled him to th ground originally, however, (and its a big however), Mullan was then in a position that he had freed himself and could have got up from the ground. Instead he drove the knee into McManus. Disappointing more so because I had been very impressed with Mullan all along, and hadn't wintessed him do anything like this previously. (Now your point is starting to sound even more convincing )
Would It be wrong of me to say that I felt yer man deserved it for the wrestling and Mullan whilst caught was damn right to do what he did.
Quote from: rrhf on June 13, 2009, 11:38:52 AM
The most annoying thing for me about the whole thing was Mullan's incident and the way it happened. I would still stick to my guns that it was McManus that bear hugged him and wrestled him to th ground originally, however, (and its a big however), Mullan was then in a position that he had freed himself and could have got up from the ground. Instead he drove the knee into McManus. Disappointing more so because I had been very impressed with Mullan all along, and hadn't wintessed him do anything like this previously. (Now your point is starting to sound even more convincing )
Would It be wrong of me to say that I felt yer man deserved it for the wrestling and Mullan whilst caught was damn right to do what he did.
No it was still wrong rrhf, regardless. However, there's no question that it would never have happened if Mc manus hadn't initiated the incident by pulling Mullan to the ground in the first place
Personally I am a bit disappointed with McManus.
I'm not sure Mullan connected with his groin (I think that has been established now) and I don't think the force was that great. But McManus' reaction was as though he had been castrated without anesthetic - even though he as much started it.
That's not defending Mullan, I just think that todays game is as much about trying to get the man sent off as it is playing the game.
You could pick any number of incidents - see O'Mahony vs Cork.
What's wrong with just playing the game as men and getting on with it?
It is defending MUllan and its an appalling defence which mirrors the attitude of people towards violence on the field of play . Just a laissez faire- cest la vie attitude to towards it all. Appalling.
(http://www.yardbarker.com/media/2/5/25c7fc96867bbdc98635d8bc5e70f8d67cddc2cc/xl/high-horse.jpg)
Dont think cassidy has done his team any favour with the officials in the tyrone game with the comments he made this week in the in they will marked men next week
Can't believe some of ye are saying McManus deserved it, a despicable act like that and you're defending it, disgraceful. McManus is a young lad who's never done anything nasty or unsavoury on the field in his life, and now apparently he deserved the knee in his balls for holding onto someone who had a hold of him!
I still say they had a hold of each other, it's clear as day for gods sake! Mullen had his arm round McManus' neck
In today's Mail on Sunday it has a oeice in it which is suggesting that the CCCC have recommened Dick Clerkin be cited for standing on Fergal Doc.
This story will run and run.
Quote from: rrhf on June 13, 2009, 11:38:52 AM
The most annoying thing for me about the whole thing was Mullan's incident and the way it happened. I would still stick to my guns that it was McManus that bear hugged him and wrestled him to th ground originally, however, (and its a big however), Mullan was then in a position that he had freed himself and could have got up from the ground. Instead he drove the knee into McManus. Disappointing more so because I had been very impressed with Mullan all along, and hadn't wintessed him do anything like this previously. (Now your point is starting to sound even more convincing )
Would It be wrong of me to say that I felt yer man deserved it for the wrestling and Mullan whilst caught was damn right to do what he did.
:D :D :D
You have to be on a wind up ;D
Quote from: orangeman on June 14, 2009, 10:05:04 AM
In today's Mail on Sunday it has a oeice in it which is suggesting that the CCCC have recommened Dick Clerkin be cited for standing on Fergal Doc.
This story will run and run.
:D :D
Quote from: JMohan on June 13, 2009, 04:02:04 PM
Personally I am a bit disappointed with McManus.
I'm not sure Mullan connected with his groin (I think that has been established now) and I don't think the force was that great. But McManus' reaction was as though he had been castrated without anesthetic - even though he as much started it.
You're clearly female. If you were a man you'd know it doesn't take a full force strike to the nuts to floor you.
Anyone that hits someone else in the nuts is a tr**p.
Quote from: orangeman on June 14, 2009, 10:05:04 AM
In today's Mail on Sunday it has a oeice in it which is suggesting that the CCCC have recommened Dick Clerkin be cited for standing on Fergal Doc.
This story will run and run.
Can you paste that article orangeman ?
If something does come out of that, Banty will just resort to plan B.
(http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00334/Tommy_Indo_334923t.jpg)
Quote from: Bensars on June 15, 2009, 01:01:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on June 14, 2009, 10:05:04 AM
In today's Mail on Sunday it has a oeice in it which is suggesting that the CCCC have recommened Dick Clerkin be cited for standing on Fergal Doc.
This story will run and run.
Can you paste that article orangeman ?
Seen the article too, apparently more footage from the BBC has become avaible which shows Clerkin stamping on Doherty's face.
Quote from: Mid Mon on June 15, 2009, 04:57:08 PM
Quote from: Bensars on June 15, 2009, 01:01:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on June 14, 2009, 10:05:04 AM
In today's Mail on Sunday it has a oeice in it which is suggesting that the CCCC have recommened Dick Clerkin be cited for standing on Fergal Doc.
This story will run and run.
Can you paste that article orangeman ?
Seen the article too, apparently more footage from the BBC has become avaible which shows Clerkin stamping on Doherty's face.
Strange that it has only come to light. I didn't hear any mention of this or eyewitness reports from posters after the game.
It's safe to assume that if there was even the slightest bit of malice from Dick, that Fergal's long evenings of saintly duty, roofing clubhouses, would be over. Not that Dick needs a defense which outlines ad nauseum all his charitable efforts, Dick need only offer a simple physics formula which would include things like g force, body weight, size 52 boots and Fergal's pristine good looks fully intact after the game.
I would more suspect that there will be no action.
QuoteLogan to represent suspended Freeman
Monaghan's Tommy Freeman
18 June 2009
Former Tyrone midfielder and well-known lawyer Fergal Logan is to assist Monaghan star Tommy Freeman in his bid to have an eight-week suspension lifted.
Freeman received the ban in the wake of Monaghan's Ulster SFC first round defeat to Derry on May 24 for 'attempting to strike with the head'.
The Central Hearings Committee upheld the ban, and Freeman's frustration was compounded when the Derry duo Fergal Doherty and Brian Mullan had similar suspensions halved on appeal.
Former Derry footballer and barrister Joe Brolly submitted the appeal for Fergal Doherty, while Derry Central Council delegate Gerard O'Kane used unseen video footage to show that Brian Mullan had not kneed Conor McManus in the groin area.
The Monaghan county board's recruitment of Logan would suggest they intend mounting a rigorous appeal to the Disputes Resolution Authority.
Logan has enjoyed some success at DRA hearings, most famously reducing Ryan McMenamin's suspension in 2005 to allow him to line out for Tyrone against Dublin in the All-Ireland quarter-final. He also successfully challenged a three-month ban that was issued to Derry's Paddy Bradley for 'minor interference with a match official' during a club game last year.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=113336
The GAA has really managed to turn this whole process into an industry in itself.
I haven't read through the whole thread but reading the last post and having watched the video again on youtube, how in the name of God can they say that yer man Mullan didn't knee the other lad in the balls?? He clearly did. That's one of the dirtiest incidents I've seen in a long time.
Logan to to give a head start to Tommy's appeal.
It might be worth digging up a medical report that confirms Tommy suffers from stereotypic movement disorder.
QuoteFreeman appeal heard
18 June 2009
Central Appeals Committee
At a meeting of the Central Appeals Committee held in Croke Park last night, an appeal from Tommy Freeman (Monaghan) was heard.
The appeal as submitted by Monaghan was upheld. The Central Appeals Committee decided to refer the case back to the Central Hearings Committee for reprocessing.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=113388
What the hell does this mean?
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 18, 2009, 05:38:02 PM
QuoteFreeman appeal heard
18 June 2009
Central Appeals Committee
At a meeting of the Central Appeals Committee held in Croke Park last night, an appeal from Tommy Freeman (Monaghan) was heard.
The appeal as submitted by Monaghan was upheld. The Central Appeals Committee decided to refer the case back to the Central Hearings Committee for reprocessing.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=113388
What the hell does this mean?
Logan's found a loophole
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 01:34:24 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread but reading the last post and having watched the video again on youtube, how in the name of God can they say that yer man Mullan didn't knee the other lad in the balls?? He clearly did. That's one of the dirtiest incidents I've seen in a long time.
Did you read the bit where it says that video footage from another angle shows that he didn't knee anyone in the balls??
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 18, 2009, 06:06:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 01:34:24 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread but reading the last post and having watched the video again on youtube, how in the name of God can they say that yer man Mullan didn't knee the other lad in the balls?? He clearly did. That's one of the dirtiest incidents I've seen in a long time.
Did you read the bit where it says that video footage from another angle shows that he didn't knee anyone in the balls??
Where is this video evidence? If it was the BBC, why wasn't it shown to defend Mullan at the time. Even if he did'nt knee him in the ball's, he still kneed him and deserved his suspension.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 18, 2009, 06:06:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 01:34:24 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread but reading the last post and having watched the video again on youtube, how in the name of God can they say that yer man Mullan didn't knee the other lad in the balls?? He clearly did. That's one of the dirtiest incidents I've seen in a long time.
Did you read the bit where it says that video footage from another angle shows that he didn't knee anyone in the balls??
Where is this video evidence? If it was the BBC, why wasn't it shown to defend Mullan at the time. Even if he did'nt knee him in the ball's, he still kneed him and deserved his suspension.
Don't understand how they can say this, has to be bullshit. Or else yer man McManus is some actor because he genuinely looked hurt...
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 18, 2009, 06:06:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 01:34:24 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread but reading the last post and having watched the video again on youtube, how in the name of God can they say that yer man Mullan didn't knee the other lad in the balls?? He clearly did. That's one of the dirtiest incidents I've seen in a long time.
Did you read the bit where it says that video footage from another angle shows that he didn't knee anyone in the balls??
Where is this video evidence? If it was the BBC, why wasn't it shown to defend Mullan at the time. Even if he did'nt knee him in the ball's, he still kneed him and deserved his suspension.
It was previously unseen, I think Brolly said it was taken by Derry officials at the game - i didn't know they created their own video footage, but there you go - it seemingly shows that the knee was in the chest, I haven't seen it, but nobody has contradicted this claim and I can't see that Brolly and the Derry county board would lie about it (if verifiable evidence to the contrary exists).
He still kneed McManus and that's why the suspension wasn't appealed, just he severity of it - according to the rules (apparently) the punishment for striking with the knee is 4 weeks.
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 06:14:13 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 18, 2009, 06:06:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 01:34:24 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread but reading the last post and having watched the video again on youtube, how in the name of God can they say that yer man Mullan didn't knee the other lad in the balls?? He clearly did. That's one of the dirtiest incidents I've seen in a long time.
Did you read the bit where it says that video footage from another angle shows that he didn't knee anyone in the balls??
Where is this video evidence? If it was the BBC, why wasn't it shown to defend Mullan at the time. Even if he did'nt knee him in the ball's, he still kneed him and deserved his suspension.
Don't understand how they can say this, has to be bullshit. Or else yer man McManus is some actor because he genuinely looked hurt...
Well a knee could hurt wherever it connects with, I'd love to see the footage too though.
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 18, 2009, 06:20:58 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 18, 2009, 06:06:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 01:34:24 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread but reading the last post and having watched the video again on youtube, how in the name of God can they say that yer man Mullan didn't knee the other lad in the balls?? He clearly did. That's one of the dirtiest incidents I've seen in a long time.
Did you read the bit where it says that video footage from another angle shows that he didn't knee anyone in the balls??
Where is this video evidence? If it was the BBC, why wasn't it shown to defend Mullan at the time. Even if he did'nt knee him in the ball's, he still kneed him and deserved his suspension.
It was previously unseen, I think Brolly said it was taken by Derry officials at the game - i didn't know they created their own video footage, but there you go - it seemingly shows that the knee was in the chest, I haven't seen it, but nobody has contradicted this claim and I can't see that Brolly and the Derry county board would lie about it (if verifiable evidence to the contrary exists).
He still kneed McManus and that's why the suspension wasn't appealed, just he severity of it - according to the rules (apparently) the punishment for striking with the knee is 4 weeks.
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 06:14:13 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 18, 2009, 06:06:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 01:34:24 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread but reading the last post and having watched the video again on youtube, how in the name of God can they say that yer man Mullan didn't knee the other lad in the balls?? He clearly did. That's one of the dirtiest incidents I've seen in a long time.
Did you read the bit where it says that video footage from another angle shows that he didn't knee anyone in the balls??
Where is this video evidence? If it was the BBC, why wasn't it shown to defend Mullan at the time. Even if he did'nt knee him in the ball's, he still kneed him and deserved his suspension.
Don't understand how they can say this, has to be bullshit. Or else yer man McManus is some actor because he genuinely looked hurt...
Well a knee could hurt wherever it connects with, I'd love to see the footage too though.
I know Tyrone have a video man with them that video's all their games. I think it was clear from the normal coverage that it was a knee so I don't see why they thought they would suspend him for 8 weeks for kneeing in the balls and only 4 weeks for kneeing in the chest. It's still striking and shows how much of a joke the disciplinary committee are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 18, 2009, 05:38:02 PM
QuoteFreeman appeal heard
18 June 2009
Central Appeals Committee
At a meeting of the Central Appeals Committee held in Croke Park last night, an appeal from Tommy Freeman (Monaghan) was heard.
The appeal as submitted by Monaghan was upheld. The Central Appeals Committee decided to refer the case back to the Central Hearings Committee for reprocessing.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=113388
What the hell does this mean?
The appeal was successful. ;D
and hopefully another nail in the coffin of this selective one dimensional citation process.
Unless these citation panel guys look at all the game, from all the tv angles, they are unfit to press serious charges against a player, a process which puts the onus on the player to prove himself innocent or less guilty against false or exaggerated charges.
On the pitch, a ref spotting the Mullan incident would be entitled to dish out a straight red card.
The RTE tv camera shot of Mullan does not show contact being made.
The video evidence was inconclusive for proving a category 2 offense of 8 weeks.
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 06:49:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear.
Well it just goes to show you the dishonesty of McManus to try and get a man sent off by intimating that he was kneed in the groin.
He kneed him - in the stomach - not in the groin.
Quote from: JMohan on June 18, 2009, 10:27:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 06:49:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear.
Well it just goes to show you the dishonesty of McManus to try and get a man sent off by intimating that he was kneed in the groin.
He kneed him - in the stomach - not in the groin.
Regardless of where he kneed him, he still kneed him and deserved to get suspended for it. If you were kneed in the groin or the stomach would you not react in a similar way?
Quote from: JMohan on June 18, 2009, 10:27:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 06:49:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear.
Well it just goes to show you the dishonesty of McManus to try and get a man sent off by intimating that he was kneed in the groin.
He kneed him - in the stomach - not in the groin.
Dishonesty my eye, if he was kneed in the stomach it still wouldn't be pleasant would you not agree? Either way a knee is a dirty act and he deserves the original ban at least. McManus has never done a dishonest thing on the field in his life, he's not that type of fella. Getting a knee to the balls/stomach would hurt and that showed in his natural reaction. How did he intimate that he got a knee in the groin? What huge difference would there be if it was the stomach and how would the ref even notice? He reacted like he did because he was hurt, regardless of where the knee connected.
I agree - he did wrong and should get punished - no arguing there.
What I argued was the actions of McManus.
Well you have a number of choices ...
1. Get up carry on, show no pain, not give him the satisfaction of thinking he affected you keeping focused on the game.
1.a Return the compliment later with a good physical shoulder or tackle
2. Exact Retribution there and then and most probably get sent off
2. a Exact Retribution later and again most probably get sent off
3. Roll on the ground and look to get the man punished
3 a. Hold the appropriate part where contact was made.
3 b. Hold another more serious part and try get him sent off for a worse offense.
Personally I'd always go for 1 or 1 a.
To me 3a is just showing your weakness and taking your eye off your role and immediate job
3b is just dishonesty to me.
The question is always - what is the most important thing that will help you win the game - it's always staying focused on winning.
Quote from: Schkite on June 18, 2009, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 18, 2009, 10:27:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 06:49:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear.
Well it just goes to show you the dishonesty of McManus to try and get a man sent off by intimating that he was kneed in the groin.
He kneed him - in the stomach - not in the groin.
Dishonesty my eye, if he was kneed in the stomach it still wouldn't be pleasant would you not agree? Either way a knee is a dirty act and he deserves the original ban at least. McManus has never done a dishonest thing on the field in his life, he's not that type of fella. Getting a knee to the balls/stomach would hurt and that showed in his natural reaction. How did he intimate that he got a knee in the groin? What huge difference would there be if it was the stomach and how would the ref even notice? He reacted like he did because he was hurt, regardless of where the knee connected.
To try and get a man sent off for kneeing you in the balls when he kneed you in the stomach is dishonest, yes. I'd have more respect for him if he held his stomach. I'd have even more respect if he just got on with it.
As for how hard he was kneed - IF if was hard enough - he wouldn't have been able to think about holding his balls - he'd be gripping his stomach in agony. So he wasn't connected with that badly.
Get up and get on with it like a man.
Monaghan people are first to point the finger - you can't have it both ways - clap Dessie Moen for pulling the balls off one man down one end of the field and then praise McManus for rolling on the ground.
You're either playing by one set of rules or not.
Have you seen this new footage yourself JMohan? Because otherwise you can't say where Mullen did in fact connect. And while you have a point about getting up and not showing weakness, if a player is hurt bad enough they can't be expected to hop straight back up again. If McManus was hit in the groin then clearly he would've needed a minute to recover! And sure even if it was the stomach he still would've been badly winded such was the knee that connected. It's not like he got a small slap and fell like a ton of bricks, which is more what I'd associate those choices with. You don't have much of a choice if you're hit hard enough.
Who did Dessie pull the balls of? This is news to me, more footage has been discovered presumably?
Quote from: Schkite on June 18, 2009, 10:50:43 PM
Have you seen this new footage yourself JMohan? Because otherwise you can't say where Mullen did in fact connect. And while you have a point about getting up and not showing weakness, if a player is hurt bad enough they can't be expected to hop straight back up again. If McManus was hit in the groin then clearly he would've needed a minute to recover! And sure even if it was the stomach he still would've been badly winded such was the knee that connected. It's not like he got a small slap and fell like a ton of bricks, which is more what I'd associate those choices with. You don't have much of a choice if you're hit hard enough.
I've always said from day one that the video showed he had not made groin contact.
Anyway - there's no argument - he's been shown now to have not been hit in the balls and he obviously did not get hit hard enough if he had time to think 'Oh I'll hold my balls and try and get him sent off here".
Like I said if he was hit in the stomach hard enough he'd never have been thinking anything other than about that.
Quote from: Schkite on June 18, 2009, 10:52:15 PM
Who did Dessie pull the balls of? This is news to me, more footage has been discovered presumably?
Talk to some of the Derry full forward line - the other one favourite is talking about girlfriends and such and raking achilles ... but you boys are happy to ignore that.
I don't understand how you can somehow blame McManus in this? He was the one that was kneed. Regardless of where it was at, it was still a knee and most likely hurt McManus, as it was in an area that would hurt if you got kneed there yourself.
You talk about him getting up and getting on with it like a man? What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle".
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:07:12 PM
I don't understand how you can somehow blame McManus in this? He was the one that was kneed. Regardless of where it was at, it was still a knee and most likely hurt McManus, as it was in an area that would hurt if you got kneed there yourself.
You talk about him getting up and getting on with it like a man? What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle".
Who's blaming McManus? Are you reading the posts or just mouthing off like Main Street? I'm saying he reacted wrong and dishonestly.
"What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle". ... So oh now it's the old cry baby boy school line - "Miss he did it first" so it's ok then is it?
[But for what it's worth - McKaigue was wrong too. Dooher does all the time and is wrong. O'Mahony did last year also and is still wrong also]
We're just following the soccer influence - dive, hold your face instead of your chest where contact was made and try and get the man sent off.
QuoteI'm saying he reacted wrong and dishonestly.
Would this not somehow blame him for the subsequent suspension for Mullan if he reacted to get a reaction from the referee or the CCC?
Quote"What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle". ... So oh now it's the old cry baby boy school line - "Miss he did it first" so it's ok then is it?
You mentioned the fact that McManus reacted wrong and dishonestly, why not mention the fact that McKaigue did it as well? I was just pointing out a fact and didn't mean it in the way of "he did it first, so its ok for me to do it"
There is no call for this in the game and alot of players are guilty of it, but the fact still remains that McManus was kneed somewhere by Mullan, and was hurt by it, so how did he react wrong and dishonestly?
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:07:12 PM
What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle".
Or a rabbit punch to the face, even
Quote from: the green man on June 18, 2009, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:07:12 PM
What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle".
Or a rabbit punch to the face, even
:D So your trying to say he was punched and this was what floored him?
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:33:32 PM
:D So your trying to say he was punched and this was what floored him?
If you were to take the time to watch the video in slow mo, you'd see the reflex action of mc kaigues head. Its not something that you can turn on just like that. But sure you can continue to be obtuse and spout what you want to.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:28:18 PM
QuoteI'm saying he reacted wrong and dishonestly.
Would this not somehow blame him for the subsequent suspension for Mullan if he reacted to get a reaction from the referee or the CCC?
Quote"What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle". ... So oh now it's the old cry baby boy school line - "Miss he did it first" so it's ok then is it?
You mentioned the fact that McManus reacted wrong and dishonestly, why not mention the fact that McKaigue did it as well? I was just pointing out a fact and didn't mean it in the way of "he did it first, so its ok for me to do it"
Are you slow? Seriously? .... I said McKaigue was wrong.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:28:18 PM
There is no call for this in the game and alot of players are guilty of it, but the fact still remains that McManus was kneed somewhere by Mullan, and was hurt by it, so how did he react wrong and dishonestly?
Yes. You are slow.
He was kneed in the chest and held his balls to get the man a longer sentence or greater punishment. = Dishonest
Quote from: the green man on June 18, 2009, 11:37:23 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:33:32 PM
:D So your trying to say he was punched and this was what floored him?
If you were to take the time to watch the video in slow mo, you'd see the reflex action of mc kaigues head. Its not something that you can turn on just like that. But sure you can continue to be obtuse and spout what you want to.
Even one of your own was embarrassed about the incident - http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12088.msg555064#msg555064 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12088.msg555064#msg555064)
Quote from: JMohan on June 18, 2009, 11:37:59 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:28:18 PM
QuoteI'm saying he reacted wrong and dishonestly.
Would this not somehow blame him for the subsequent suspension for Mullan if he reacted to get a reaction from the referee or the CCC?
Quote"What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle". ... So oh now it's the old cry baby boy school line - "Miss he did it first" so it's ok then is it?
You mentioned the fact that McManus reacted wrong and dishonestly, why not mention the fact that McKaigue did it as well? I was just pointing out a fact and didn't mean it in the way of "he did it first, so its ok for me to do it"
Are you slow? Seriously? .... I said McKaigue was wrong.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:28:18 PM
There is no call for this in the game and alot of players are guilty of it, but the fact still remains that McManus was kneed somewhere by Mullan, and was hurt by it, so how did he react wrong and dishonestly?
Yes. You are slow.
He was kneed in the chest and held his balls to get the man a longer sentence or greater punishment. = Dishonest
I supose we won't know where Mullan connected with his knee until we see this new footage. I thought Derry's appeal was on the basis that Tommy McGuigan kneed SML in the balls in the league game and got 4 weeks suspension for it and Mullan should have got a similar ban. When the CCC handed out the ban, did it say that he got 8 weeks for a knee in the balls, rather than just 4 weeks for striking with the knee?
Quote from: JMohan on June 18, 2009, 10:27:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 06:49:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear.
Well it just goes to show you the dishonesty of McManus to try and get a man sent off by intimating that he was kneed in the groin.
He kneed him - in the stomach - not in the groin.
Get a grip on to yourself. Your talk is cheap.
Video evidence did not prove the catagory 2 of 8 weeks, does not mean McManus did not get a fair whack
Why are you claiming McManus is dishonest? He got a whack where it hurt.
Not like that idiot who feigned getting hit later on.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:52:26 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 18, 2009, 11:37:59 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:28:18 PM
QuoteI'm saying he reacted wrong and dishonestly.
Would this not somehow blame him for the subsequent suspension for Mullan if he reacted to get a reaction from the referee or the CCC?
Quote"What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle". ... So oh now it's the old cry baby boy school line - "Miss he did it first" so it's ok then is it?
You mentioned the fact that McManus reacted wrong and dishonestly, why not mention the fact that McKaigue did it as well? I was just pointing out a fact and didn't mean it in the way of "he did it first, so its ok for me to do it"
Are you slow? Seriously? .... I said McKaigue was wrong.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:28:18 PM
There is no call for this in the game and alot of players are guilty of it, but the fact still remains that McManus was kneed somewhere by Mullan, and was hurt by it, so how did he react wrong and dishonestly?
Yes. You are slow.
He was kneed in the chest and held his balls to get the man a longer sentence or greater punishment. = Dishonest
I supose we won't know where Mullan connected with his knee until we see this new footage. I thought Derry's appeal was on the basis that Tommy McGuigan kneed SML in the balls in the league game and got 4 weeks suspension for it and Mullan should have got a similar ban. When the CCC handed out the ban, did it say that he got 8 weeks for a knee in the balls, rather than just 4 weeks for striking with the knee?
You're not embarrassed by now?
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2009, 12:06:36 AM
Quote from: JMohan on June 18, 2009, 10:27:41 PM
Quote from: GBXII on June 18, 2009, 06:49:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear.
Well it just goes to show you the dishonesty of McManus to try and get a man sent off by intimating that he was kneed in the groin.
He kneed him - in the stomach - not in the groin.
Get a grip on to yourself. Your talk is cheap.
Video evidence did not prove the catagory 2 of 8 weeks, does not mean McManus did not get a fair whack
Why are you claiming McManus is dishonest? He got a whack where it hurt.
Not like that idiot who feigned getting hit later on.
McManus tried to make the injury look worse than it was - get over it and move on.
The qualifiers are coming - you'll have more things to moan about ... and the likes of McManus will have more time to roll on the ground.
You've been rolling out this bullshit about McManus exaggerrating it ever since the match. Fact is he got a bad knee stuck into him and it hurt, wherever it fully connected. You're the one who needs to get over it and move on, any time I've seen this incident dragged up since the game you've usually had alot to say about it. McManus is an honest player who has never once feigned injury or rolled around on the ground to get someone sent off. Now all of a sudden you're painting a picture of him as a serial diver and dishonest player, complete bullshit.
Get over it ... you tried to play rough and negative as usual and got found out this time ... teams have copped on to the Monaghan tactics and you're just being sore losers.
Best of luck in the next round I've hoped you learned your lesson.
The yappy schoolkid and his keyboard finally departs.
u buck eejits kept him going. ignore him for godsake. and move on to the next match. its time to stop the autopsy and bury the corpse.
;D ;D ;D ;D
I'm sorry boys, it's just way too easy to resist wind you Monaghan wans up.
Best of luck in the draw.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:47:32 PM
Quote from: the green man on June 18, 2009, 11:37:23 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 18, 2009, 11:33:32 PM
:D So your trying to say he was punched and this was what floored him?
If you were to take the time to watch the video in slow mo, you'd see the reflex action of mc kaigues head. Its not something that you can turn on just like that. But sure you can continue to be obtuse and spout what you want to.
Even one of your own was embarrassed about the incident - http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12088.msg555064#msg555064 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12088.msg555064#msg555064)
The defence shall rest its case with the picture in the Irish News today!
Can you post the picture GM?
http://www.irishnews.com/appnews/597/5776/2009/6/19/620547_385078578210Painspurr.html
a straight left to the jaw...the story continues
Pretty conclusive don't you think?
Quote from: wherefromreferee? on June 19, 2009, 09:46:40 AM
Pretty conclusive don't you think?
We can't have it both ways lads. If that i conclusive, then the Fergal Doherty eye gouging still picture is pretty conclusive a well.
To be fair STB, that's true. So what will we run with?? Photos are conclusive and fact, or inconclusive and a pile of pish?
fecking hell lads - yez are 'soccerising' football now !
Fergal shouldnt have lost it/retaliated etc and should not have given even wee kicks. Thats wrong imo.
Clerkin is guilty of the same as Doc in terms of hitting (stamp etc) and possibly of starting it.
doesnt matter both deserve 4 weeks.
I dont think that the 'gouging' was that at all.
Mullen guilty of striking - always thought that and also thought that it was nigh impossible to have hit mcmanus in the stones from the position they were in.
McManus guilty of playing the man when dispossessed - worse still no Derry free (all this would have not happened if the ref had given the free this transgression deserved). also I dont like seeing a fella play act and hold his nuts tolet on he was struck there.
Any hoor that did that to me when I was playing, I made sure he wasnt play acting the next time I got a chance.
There are prob a few more that could have been 'cited' , invstigated and banned - from both sides.
The lad for punching McKaigue and rory woods for persistently being the 'third man in' to every wee handbag scuffle.
Also even though punched, I dont think mckaigue should have went down.
Its a flippin mans game and theres a few on both sides and a good few on teams throughout the country (spotted a few kerry lads at it in their last two games) that are up to this oul sihte now.
Its give and take and play the f**king game lads.
I'd be embarrassed to lay down even if hit, you shouldnt give the fcukers the satisfaction !
Is this what the cccc and dra and all the rest now means
We go through every match frame by frame for 2 months after the match and pick put anybody who even touchs another player anywhere not deemed strictly to the rules
Is this not getting a little out of hand
Any matters not dealt with on the pitch should be left there unless they are very serious
In using the picture, I wasn't calling for action to be taken against Freeman, rather using it as part of my arguement to defend a clubmate. There were people on here stating as fact that he wasnt hit and was play acting. They listened to pundits on TV and took their word on it. Instead, if they had bothered to watch the reply of the incident in slow motion, a punch can clearly be seen to be thrown. This picture seems to back that up.
Of course it was no haymaker, but the severity of the punch is not the arguement here. The arguement is that people, including a few from our own county, felt it was fine to call him a cheat. Something that Christopher McKaigue never was, and knowing the lad, he never will be.
Goin by the reaction of Corey (I think?) it looks like it was a real haymaker and he was in absolute shock at Freeman's box. :D I think you have a case Green Man! ;)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 19, 2009, 10:29:32 AM
fecking hell lads - yez are 'soccerising' football now !
Fergal shouldnt have lost it/retaliated etc and should not have given even wee kicks. Thats wrong imo.
Clerkin is guilty of the same as Doc in terms of hitting (stamp etc) and possibly of starting it.
doesnt matter both deserve 4 weeks.
I dont think that the 'gouging' was that at all.
Mullen guilty of striking - always thought that and also thought that it was nigh impossible to have hit mcmanus in the stones from the position they were in.
McManus guilty of playing the man when dispossessed - worse still no Derry free (all this would have not happened if the ref had given the free this transgression deserved). also I dont like seeing a fella play act and hold his nuts tolet on he was struck there.
Any hoor that did that to me when I was playing, I made sure he wasnt play acting the next time I got a chance.
There are prob a few more that could have been 'cited' , invstigated and banned - from both sides.
The lad for punching McKaigue and rory woods for persistently being the 'third man in' to every wee handbag scuffle.
Also even though punched, I dont think mckaigue should have went down.
Its a flippin mans game and theres a few on both sides and a good few on teams throughout the country (spotted a few kerry lads at it in their last two games) that are up to this oul sihte now.
Its give and take and play the f**king game lads.
I'd be embarrassed to lay down even if hit, you shouldnt give the fcukers the satisfaction !
Great post
It seems Freeman hasnt been cleared after all according to todays IN.
The appeal was on the grounds that a date in some letter giving when the suspension was to start from was wrong.
It was agreed that the date was indeed wrong, but that the 8 week ban will stand.
Yep - it's up in front of the DRA now by the look of it. I'd imagine the conclusion will be 4 weeks.
Is the possible Clerkin charge only a rumour?
I think you've enough to worry about.
I can't see any further action taken at this stage anyway.
All I seen was an article in last Sunday's paper which was all hearsay, no quotes. No official word at all as far as I seen and I doubt there will be now.
I sincerely hope not - don't think there's much to be gained from it apart from dragging both teams and the GAA further into the mire
********************
Interesting interview ....
From The Sunday Times
June 21, 2009
Truly, madly, Paddy Bradley
Michael Foley
It began just as Paddy Bradley knew it would. A jersey tug first. Then a belt. Then a trip. A few words in his ear. Maybe about his mother. His girlfriend. Water squirted in his face. More ankle taps and belts. It's what Derry expected. It was the game they were ready to play.
When Derry met Monaghan two years ago, they left the field beaten and spooked. Monaghan had stayed in their face all day, rattled them out of their rhythm and beat them up. Last year they did the same. This year Derry spent all winter and spring working on a new, more fluent approach to their play. When they met Monaghan last month, though, they knew they would need something different. When Monaghan barked, Derry had to be ready to bite.
"The first year we played Monaghan we were shellshocked," he says. "Last year we should've learned we were going to get that. The third time, we weren't going to let it happen again. The only thing we could do was fight fire with fire. If I was being nipped, I nipped and hit back harder. Every other player did that. It was the only way we could have won that game."
Bradley shielded himself from the firestorm that followed the match. Victory made for good insulation. For years he had seen Derry teams publicly derided for their failure to stand their ground. Now they finally had, they were slaughtered. When Damian Cassidy took over at the beginning of the year, part of his work was to prepare Derry for days like that. Beating Monaghan had nothing to do with fair play. The only law that mattered to them was the jungle.
"If Joe Bloggs is going to nip at me, spit on me, kick me, I'm going to do it back when I know for the last two years I haven't and come out with egg on my face. You have people in the papers saying he's no good. He has no bottle. They're not fighting for each other. They're not a team. The only way to fight that is to give as good as you're getting. Nobody regrets what we did."
For all the trouble it brought them, the match made a statement to the team, too. In other years, Bradley sometimes entered the championship doubting everything except himself. When Derry were in trouble, they hoofed ball towards him. Bradley would lurk behind the defender, pouncing to steal the ball from his grasp like a frog snapping out his tongue to catch a fly. He produced some stunning scoring feats over the years, but they were never enough to sustain Derry for an entire summer. A few carried the burden with him: Enda Muldoon, Fergal Doherty around the middle, Seán Marty Lockhart in defence. None of them fully realised the burden until it started to lift.
"We had some players on the panel in the past and I know they're only there to say they've played for Derry. They came to training, went through the motions and saved themselves for club matches. They weren't pushing the others to make the team which is probably why the team wasn't as strong as it is now.
"Damian has given everybody time in the National League. Some of the faces he's used in the championship, if you told me at the start of the year they'd play championship football, I'd have said no. But Damian has faith in everybody.
"It's a belief (that's there) in everybody else. Maybe I'm wrong, but in the past I didn't think some players were good enough. I didn't tell anybody, but within myself I'd have felt this team isn't good enough. For the first time in a long time I can say we have a panel and all of them are capable of playing championship football."
That trust was hardened through a spring of experimentation and hard labour. In Derry, though, the landmines are scattered everywhere they walk. When James Kielt's jaw was allegedly broken by Derry teammate James Conway during a club game a few weeks back, assumptions were made about the impact on the county team. Derry's summer was filed away before it had even properly begun. Conway was dropped from the panel by Cassidy. Rumours swept wildly through south Derry that the Ballinderry boys were walking away in protest. Not this time. Instead, the panel's reaction allowed them to make another statement about themselves, and their attitude.
"If something like that had happened five years ago, we would've let it split us," says Bradley. "But when we came back to training, Damian spoke about it and said he didn't want it mentioned again. You know you say you want to draw a line in the sand here, but you always have chatter? I have yet to have someone say something to me about the incident.
"Damian's big thing is you respect each other while you're at county training, and away from county training. That's why he took the stance he did. There was a lack of respect shown. There's a big change even coming back from club games. Me and Barry McGuigan were at each other in our last game but we shook hands afterwards. What was done was left there. In other years that would've lingered on and taken a few nights to clear. Maybe you wouldn't have spoken for a night or two. But Damian has everyone focused on what Derry are doing this year."
With clubs living cheek by jowl in small enclaves scattered around Derry, the atmosphere is often ferocious. In April 2007, Bradley was entangled in an argument with a referee who had mistakenly converted a two-point win for Glenullin into a draw. He was suspended for 12 weeks for alleged minor physical interference with the referee. Although the suspension was eventually overturned, it left a dent.
"I wouldn't say it's dirty, but there are hits. If someone's marking me, he's not going to stand back and admire Paddy Bradley. We get no protection
Give it a rest jmohan, you're still talking about this game ::)
As a Monaghan player said last night to me..."Derry played the Monaghan game like it was there All-Ireland final and yesterday they where back to the same shit team we played the previous years, no balls and no answer."
Couldn't disagree with him. Monaghan wouldn't have taken the beating Derry took yesterday against a below par Tyrone.
I agree with you - Derry went back to type - serious questions over the Cassidy appointment.
However Monaghan need to ask themselves how good they are if they couldn't beat that Derry team too.
To say that Monaghan wouldn't have taken that beating is nonsense and irrelevant.
Quote from: JMohan on June 22, 2009, 01:01:56 PM
I agree with you - Derry went back to type - serious questions over the Cassidy appointment.
However Monaghan need to ask themselves how good they are if they couldn't beat that Derry team too.
To say that Monaghan wouldn't have taken that beating is nonsense and irrelevant.
The same player offered his own opinion why Derry beat them but I'm not going into them here.
I'd don't see why its nonsense to say why Monaghan wouldn't have taken that beating...in the past few seasons no team has put Monaghan away as easily as Tyrone did yesterday to derry.
Well I'd love to hear the explanation about why Monaghan were beat - you can pm me if you want.
I just don't think you can make statements like that - it's a bit to hypothetical and unfair to make claims like that.
Quote from: JMohan on June 22, 2009, 11:56:59 AM
I sincerely hope not - don't think there's much to be gained from it apart from dragging both teams and the GAA further into the mire
********************
Interesting interview ....
From The Sunday Times
June 21, 2009
Truly, madly, Paddy Bradley
Michael Foley
It began just as Paddy Bradley knew it would. A jersey tug first. Then a belt. Then a trip. A few words in his ear. Maybe about his mother. His girlfriend. Water squirted in his face. More ankle taps and belts. It's what Derry expected. It was the game they were ready to play.
When Derry met Monaghan two years ago, they left the field beaten and spooked. Monaghan had stayed in their face all day, rattled them out of their rhythm and beat them up. Last year they did the same. This year Derry spent all winter and spring working on a new, more fluent approach to their play. When they met Monaghan last month, though, they knew they would need something different. When Monaghan barked, Derry had to be ready to bite.
"The first year we played Monaghan we were shellshocked," he says. "Last year we should've learned we were going to get that. The third time, we weren't going to let it happen again. The only thing we could do was fight fire with fire. If I was being nipped, I nipped and hit back harder. Every other player did that. It was the only way we could have won that game."
Bradley shielded himself from the firestorm that followed the match. Victory made for good insulation. For years he had seen Derry teams publicly derided for their failure to stand their ground. Now they finally had, they were slaughtered. When Damian Cassidy took over at the beginning of the year, part of his work was to prepare Derry for days like that. Beating Monaghan had nothing to do with fair play. The only law that mattered to them was the jungle.
"If Joe Bloggs is going to nip at me, spit on me, kick me, I'm going to do it back when I know for the last two years I haven't and come out with egg on my face. You have people in the papers saying he's no good. He has no bottle. They're not fighting for each other. They're not a team. The only way to fight that is to give as good as you're getting. Nobody regrets what we did."
There's a lot of crap in there too. For example, in 2007 Derry were beaten off the field purely by football. There was no other 'crap' in that game.
Secondly, there's nobody called Joe Bloggs playing for Monaghan. Can Bradley not name names?
There's no point in getting into another big argument over this ... but it's common knowledge that the Monaghan backs are dirty and provocative, which is why they got so little sympathy the last day after the Derry game.
Monaghan can argue this all they like, but it's common knowledge and what's saddest or most disappointing from a Monaghan point of view is that they are not a bad team and could improve more if they looked at other aspects of their game rather than the dirty side of it.
Now I'm sure I'll get responses about Derry and Tyrone and others ... but that's only school boy arguing about what others are doing.
Every team goes through stages of progression in winning an All Ireland ...
1. First you learn how to play together as a team and beat poor teams
2. Then you learn how to stop good teams playing (think back to Armagh and Tyrone before they won anything) and disrupt their style
3. And then you learn how to combine 1 & 2 and beat good teams
Monaghan stopped at stage 2 and never progressed beyond spoiling to a more constructive team. This is Bantys biggest failing in my opinion.
For what it's worth Derry are at 1, Tyrone at 3 ... (Derry were closing in on 3 after the League last year untii they took their eye off Fermanagh).
You can take that with Blue tinted glasses as just 'stirring' OR you can take it in the constructive manner in which it was meant and maybe we can have a decent debate on the future of Monaghan football for once.
Derry and Monaghan get fines removed
26 June 2009
The CHC have decided that both Monaghan and Derry will not have to pay the proposed Eu10,000 fine imposed as a result of their players' behaviour in the Ulster SFC match between the two sides.
Both sides were hit with suspension and fines after an Ulster SFC quarter-final which tempered with a number of unsavoury incidents.
Suspension and fines of Eu10,000 were proposed by the Central Competitions Control Committee.
Both counties appealed the fines and the Central Hearings Committee decided that the charge laid against both counties of 'Disruptive Conduct by Players (not causing the Premature Termination of a Game)' was not proven.
How stupid does this make HQ look? Do they not think before they hand out sanctions?
The old Derry CB's and the National DRA or CCC aren't looking too good these days ...
Quote from: bingobus on June 22, 2009, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 22, 2009, 01:01:56 PM
I agree with you - Derry went back to type - serious questions over the Cassidy appointment.
However Monaghan need to ask themselves how good they are if they couldn't beat that Derry team too.
To say that Monaghan wouldn't have taken that beating is nonsense and irrelevant.
The same player offered his own opinion why Derry beat them but I'm not going into them here.
I'd don't see why its nonsense to say why Monaghan wouldn't have taken that beating...in the past few seasons no team has put Monaghan away as easily as Tyrone did yesterday to derry.
One word........CORK. :o
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 27, 2009, 08:13:00 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 22, 2009, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 22, 2009, 01:01:56 PM
I agree with you - Derry went back to type - serious questions over the Cassidy appointment.
However Monaghan need to ask themselves how good they are if they couldn't beat that Derry team too.
To say that Monaghan wouldn't have taken that beating is nonsense and irrelevant.
The same player offered his own opinion why Derry beat them but I'm not going into them here.
I'd don't see why its nonsense to say why Monaghan wouldn't have taken that beating...in the past few seasons no team has put Monaghan away as easily as Tyrone did yesterday to derry.
One word........CORK. :o
What was that, 5 points?