Doire v Mhuineacháin 24/5/09

[full back]

McEnaney's opinion on Brolly et al hits the nail on the head:

"There's pundits out there paid to do a job and I have no problem with Joe Brolly being paid for his opinion, or the likes of him making money on the back of us."

I watched the game on Sunday and the RTE analysis afterwards. As far as I'm aware Brolly is getting paid to analyse the games he's watching. On Sunday he gave the opinions of Derry suporter not those of a supposedly objective analyst. If people wanted those views they could ask any fan who watched the match.

Correct,
we could have asked sideline kick & he would have told you for next to nothing 

[whiskeysteve]

What, is that a point or just some random statement? Comparing football today with that of the 80's or any other generation is pointless, especially if you're doing so to justify the worst aspects of our game. It's like a soccer fan defending a mini riot at a game on the basis that it was much worse in the 80's, i.e. pointless and irrelevant. I was comparing the fact that you don't worry that other codes will descend into foul ridden, stop start contests, whereas football can do so on a reasonably regular basis. And any fan of the game should find that unacceptable.

Comparisons with hurling are unfair. The dynamics are completely different. A game where a ball can be driven accurately 80,90,100 yards in an instant nullifies blanket defences, fouling deep out the field to slow down play, etc. Regarding the 'manliness' of the game, there are plenty of sly, underhand stuff at times (butts of hurls jabbed into ribs, groins, etc), but with the speed of the game there is no time to dwell on them. The pace renders it a much less tactical game. Now, soccer is a very sanitised 'physical' sport, it also produces a high number of boring, boring games and it is ridden by diving and cheating.

I'll be honest and echo a few earlier posters. I enjoyed the game on Sunday, it was physical, it was intense, there was honesty of effort in buckets from Sean Leo, Gerard O'Kane, etc. There were good periods of play and yes there were some nasty moments. But over 70 minutes these nasty moments would have added up to less than 5 minutes of viewing.

When I arrived back from the game and got talking to lads from other counties who watched the game on telly, i was struck by how nasty they felt the game had been. I knew it had been played in a bad spirit at times, but overall there had been no bad injuries, no all in brawls, even when 5/6 players were involved in handbags at one point, there was no striking of any kind. After seeing this thread swell to over 60 pages of righteous indignation, its becoming more clear to me that the way the game has been cast in an exaggerated light by elements of the TV coverage, e.g. cameras catching every single incident and replaying them, half time and full time continual replaying of incidents, Spillane, etc, giving out. The focus of the Sunday Game was very incident orientated. A couple of them HAD to be highlighted, but at the end of the day they didnt have to dominate to THAT extent. Subsequently, this game has been subject to hyperbole, from the media down.

Now it was not a pretty game and certainly not one for the purists. My enjoyment of the game, and I think for most Derry spectators, stemmed from the way Derry won. Most expected a tough, gruelling, negative game that could not and would not have been won clean and easy. A lot of folks on here who have laudable standards for the nature in which the game is played also need to face the reality that the game could not and would not have gone any other way. This does not excuse specific incidents but explains the general flow of the match. Nonetheless there were quality moments in this game, Kielts points and the team move leading to Divers point from a Derry perspective, for example. It is a shame these have warranted little to no mention.

One slightly nasty game does not constitute a crisis in standards.

[Zulu]

A lot of folks on here who have laudable standards for the nature in which the game is played also need to face the reality that the game could not and would not have gone any other way.

See this is where I have the problem, I agree that there were some fine passages of play and some great scores, in fact I thought the first half wasn't bad. I've seen loads of poor hurling games, I hardly watch soccer at all as I don't enjoy it as a spectator sport but the point I was making is that those sports or rugby, Aussie rules, American football, rugby league etc. rarely descend into foul ridden spectacles, why should we accept football doing so? Why should we accept off the ball kicking, pushing and shoving, verbals, third man in and worst of all feigning injury as normal? You said it was never going to be different and that is clear evidence of the problem we have, rather than a good hard hitting game, we got a good hard hitting game on occasion but too often it was broken up by petty fouls and nonsense. If these teams came together later in the year we should be able to expect all that is good in football played out by some of the best footballers in Ireland, not a repeat of what we had last Sunday. The problem is with the rules, moreso than the players because players will always push the boundaries, we just need to set new ones.

Derry lads may not realize this,or care, but last Sunday did nothing for football as a game and for people like me who are trying to promote the game that is a problem.

[Jinxy]

Comparisons with hurling are unfair. The dynamics are completely different. A game where a ball can be driven accurately 80,90,100 yards in an instant nullifies blanket defences, fouling deep out the field to slow down play, etc. Regarding the 'manliness' of the game, there are plenty of sly, underhand stuff at times (butts of hurls jabbed into ribs, groins, etc), but with the speed of the game there is no time to dwell on them. The pace renders it a much less tactical game. Now, soccer is a very sanitised 'physical' sport, it also produces a high number of boring, boring games and it is ridden by diving and cheating.

I'll be honest and echo a few earlier posters. I enjoyed the game on Sunday, it was physical, it was intense, there was honesty of effort in buckets from Sean Leo, Gerard O'Kane, etc. There were good periods of play and yes there were some nasty moments. But over 70 minutes these nasty moments would have added up to less than 5 minutes of viewing.

When I arrived back from the game and got talking to lads from other counties who watched the game on telly, i was struck by how nasty they felt the game had been. I knew it had been played in a bad spirit at times, but overall there had been no bad injuries, no all in brawls, even when 5/6 players were involved in handbags at one point, there was no striking of any kind. After seeing this thread swell to over 60 pages of righteous indignation, its becoming more clear to me that the way the game has been cast in an exaggerated light by elements of the TV coverage, e.g. cameras catching every single incident and replaying them, half time and full time continual replaying of incidents, Spillane, etc, giving out. The focus of the Sunday Game was very incident orientated. A couple of them HAD to be highlighted, but at the end of the day they didnt have to dominate to THAT extent. Subsequently, this game has been subject to hyperbole, from the media down.

Now it was not a pretty game and certainly not one for the purists. My enjoyment of the game, and I think for most Derry spectators, stemmed from the way Derry won. Most expected a tough, gruelling, negative game that could not and would not have been won clean and easy. A lot of folks on here who have laudable standards for the nature in which the game is played also need to face the reality that the game could not and would not have gone any other way. This does not excuse specific incidents but explains the general flow of the match. Nonetheless there were quality moments in this game, Kielts points and the team move leading to Divers point from a Derry perspective, for example. It is a shame these have warranted little to no mention.

One slightly nasty game does not constitute a crisis in standards.

Like most folk here I've been watching and playing gaelic football most of my life.
I don't need an analyst to tell me a lad has been kicked off the ball or kneed in the b*lls when he's lying on the ground.
I'd also like to propose that the words "intense" & "intensity" be banned from discussions about Ulster football.

[Maguire01]

Would he prefer if the game wasn't shown, would he prefer if the actions of the team he prepared wasn't commented on simply because he doesn't like what he hears? As usual there is an attitude, underlined by a few on here, that we aren't to blame it is those giving out who are the problem. It's long since past time for people in the GAA to start looking at the bigger picture and taking responsibility for where they are taking the game.

I don't think that's the case at all. It's just highlighting that Brolly and other pundits are paid to entertain and be controversial. It's not about trying to cover up what happened at all, or blame the pundits.

And McEnaney's comments were made in relation to Brolly being 'delighted' that Monaghan were out of the Ulster Championship - he wasn't trying to apportion 'blame' to anyone else.
Anyway, here's a link to the story if you're interested:
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=112034

[ExiledGael]

So how likely is it that Monaghan and Derry players will get sanctions from the CCCC investigation into the match ?


On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no chance of a suspension and 10 being certain of getting a suspension, how would you rate these lads and the alleged offences ?


Fergal Doherty - gouging  1/10
Fergal Doherty - kicking    8/10
Tommy Freeman headbutt 8/10
Richard Clerkin knee - 4/10
Brian Mullan - knee - 12/10


Anyone else ??

I think you deserve a ban OM, Richard Clerkin??
Are you his mother?

[Armamike]

Remind me again how Dublin won thier All Ireland in 1983

Ah fer fecksake, we're talking about a game on Sunday, in 2009. No need to get into whataboutery from the year of Kajagoogoo.

[ONeill]

Heard a true story this week that Clerkin's da called him Dick so that his name couldn't be shortened.

[ExiledGael]

Are there any youtube clips of the incidents from the game?

[ONeill]

Are there any youtube clips of the incidents from the game?

Towards the end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pe0rNieL-Q

[Our Nail Loney]

Are some people seriously trying to say Riceys was the same as Mullens?? Come on to f**k now... There was serious intent on Mullen's part...

Thought the match was decent enough myself and the niggles etc livened it up...

Couple fellas I know from Derry text me even after the match that Kielt should not have been on, bit unfair if ya ask me?? He won them the match arguably with his points. Very important.

Also did anyone else see the Sunday Game putting up the wrong pictures for their three nominees for man of the match on Sunday night?? How hard can it be to put the right player pics up?? Jesus Christ

[Maguire01]

Also did anyone else see the Sunday Game putting up the wrong pictures for their three nominees for man of the match on Sunday night?? How hard can it be to put the right player pics up?? Jesus Christ

Yep, and not for the first time either.

[Main Street]

It's OK to play by the unwritten rules

Against the Breeze

By Paddy Heaney

26/05/2009

The tut-tutting about the nastiness of Sunday's game also beggars belief. Monaghan are a big, bruising team.

have to say i agree with paddy on this one

It's amazing how the stature of our pint sized warriors grows by the meter.
But I suppose how else could a heavyweight justify getting knocked around the ring by a featherweight.

The invitation goes out now to other teams in the qualifiers - 'hands up anyone for Clones' 

[Jinxy]

Remind me again how Dublin won thier All Ireland in 1983

Ah fer fecksake, we're talking about a game on Sunday, in 2009. No need to get into whataboutery from the year of Kajagoogoo.

Whataboutery and arseboxing will get us nowhere!

[orangeman]

So how likely is it that Monaghan and Derry players will get sanctions from the CCCC investigation into the match ?


On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no chance of a suspension and 10 being certain of getting a suspension, how would you rate these lads and the alleged offences ?


Fergal Doherty - gouging  1/10
Fergal Doherty - kicking    8/10
Tommy Freeman headbutt 8/10
Richard Clerkin knee - 4/10
Brian Mullan - knee - 12/10


Anyone else ??

I think you deserve a ban OM, Richard Clerkin??
Are you his mother?

Richard Clerkin sounds better than DICK Clerkin.