Doire v Mhuineacháin 24/5/09

[screenmachine]

What a crying session this thread has turned into?  Mullan should get banned but lets be honest about the thing, he didn't try to end his career or seriously injure him.  By some of the reaction on here you'd nearly think he pulled a knife out of his sock and stabbed the fcuk out of him!  He'll get a suspension, get over it!

Also I can't really understand where all the praise for James Kielt is coming from.  Granted, he kicked two awesome points but he was in acres of space for both of them and offered nothing else through the whole game.  Thought Mark Lynch was quiet enough when he cam on too, I actually forgot he had come on until he hit a free!!

Don't think Doc should get anything extra as we niggly things like that go on in every game and once again there was no serious injury caused or even attempted for that matter.

Shit game.  Good result, all that matters really.

Kilelts points weren't some easy tap over score 25 yards out, in front of goal in some club league game. he scored two absolutely massive points from distance to DRAW the game and the other to put us ONE up in one of the most intense and intimidating enviroments he will ever face. Have you any understanding of how he was involved in in lifting Derrys game at that stage to go for the win.

The fact of the matter is Max that Kielt could have came on tens mins into the second half and offered the same amount as he did yesterday.  I have stated that both his points were awesome and he also was in a lot of space for both of them, I think this is an accurate enough account?  What did Kielt offer in the first half at all and in the second half outside of his two scores?

[saffron sam2]

Indiana Dublin were involved in a brutal league game against Monaghan last season, which your stats man came on and head butted one of the Monaghan players. How do you think a team should take on Monaghan as a matter of interest ( I am not defending a Derry player kneeing someone in the privates, but I am defending our aggressive manner in meeting Monaghans methods )

Interestingly I agree with Max, although obviously I would use the word Derry's instead of our.

For years, this Monaghan team has used whatever tactics necessary to win matches. They have flouted, bent and played well outside the spirit of the rules of the game. They initimate, throw sly digs, and constantly verbally abuse opponents. I would single out Dick Clerkin in this regard as an example of everything that is wrong with how Monaghan play the game. They have done this for years without referees or the hierarchy in the GAA doing anything serious about it. That the Director-General of the GAA is a Monaghan man and Seamus McEnaney has a brother who is a high profile inter-county referee is possibly irrelevant, but it can (and in my opinion) does lead to an Orwellian-like perception that some counties are more equal than others.

Now, how to you play Monaghan? Do you meet their aggression and skull-duggery with your own aggression and then when the sorting out is done, do you play the football? This is what Derry did yesterday. Now on more than one occasion, Derrymen went beyond what is acceptable and both Mullan and Doherty fully deserve any ban that is coming their way. But when Derry had created the circumstances that they could play football in, i.e. when they had shown Monaghan that they weren't going to be bullied or initimated, they closed the game out in some style.

Cass has a reputation for playing a particular style of effective, if not overly-attractive, football; he i snot reknowned for preparing teams to win by common thuggery. By this stage, McEnaney certainly is. The blame for yesterday's events lies almost entirely with how the GAA has failed to deal with this Monaghan squad.

Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.

[JMohan]

I think Monaghan have reached the end of their cycle.
Like I said before I think Banty has done a great job - but the system and style of play has been successful to the level where they are now in the top 8 in the country possibly. To go further they need to adopt a new style or improve it - not just keep doing the same thing.

Banty made a great move a few years ago - cleared out his backroom staff after reaching the L2 Final and winning it and brought in new men. New style etc. I think he might need to do the same again - OR move on himself.

It's not disrespectful - I just think new ideas are needed.

You also have to ask about the discipline and the style of play Banty or whoever sent them out to play. (I'll come to Derry in a minute). To be fair to Monaghan they've been treading on this line for a while and some of their players have had a reputation growing for a bit of being nasty and involved in off-the-ball stuff. Some of the verbals in games I've heard reported were sickening. So it's no wonder there is such a backlash against them now. Before this most people thought they were everyones favourite second team, but they are losing that tag now and now are looked upon as a dirty team.

As for Derry, I think they showed some steel for the first time in a while in Championship when it mattered. It was always there - look at Kerry in the NFL final last year. The key was for them to do it in championship and to do it 2 games in a row - this is where the next game will be key.

The dirty incidents are all part of a game when it sinks to that level. In other words in bad games people do lots of bad things so you can't take things completely out of context. But you can't defend kicking someone in the balls.

The biggest issue here is NOT adding more rules or adding a sin bin - this is NOT the answer. Just enforce the ones we have. If a referee has balls himself he'll deal with issues he sees and if the umpires or linesmen see it then he has to act. The biggest issue is enforcement and having the balls to enforce the rules. All it would have taken is to send 3 or 4 men off today (rightly for the fouls they committed) to set the tone for the season and get things up and running. Sadly we had referees now who have cowed out for things and people now looking for a sin bin, which allows you to keep men on the field, just replace them. There's no real advantage in that now that panels are so big.

People will say oh - well you will still get straight reds for dangerous tackles. BS. There will be more yellows instead of Reds. Just empower and support the good referees.

How is it that Pat McEneany can referee good games and clowns like yesterday lose the run of things? Explain that one. Can't we just enforce the ones we have?

Monaghan need to go back to the drawing board. They are too cyncial and crude, don't go out to play football and looked to lose fitness in the last 10 minutes whereas Derry were flying with a man less. Questions to be asked there.

Anyway ... the next up for both teams will be fun as both have a lot to do.

[lynchbhoy]

For what its worth my opinion is that Monaghan were the instigators of the roughness in the game. They were also the more negative. But I suppose in a way you can't blame them. Football is about winning and Monaghan knew that the two Bradleys will do serious damage if played one on one against the Monaghan backs. They crowded t he back and tried to slow the ball in. When confronted with that Derry  had to fight fire with fire. Shite game but I think Derry will have more to offer in the next rounds and I'd expect them to give Ulster a right lash

that sums it up exactly ! !!

[JMohan]

On a different note, does anybody know what the F.H.W. stands for written on mone's arm?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8066225.stm

Freeman Headbutted McGuckin. The M is upside-down.

FHW stands for F*cking Hard Work

(It was his motto for the day)

[Maximus Marillius]

The reason, Derry were playing against a mighy breeze and Monaghan lorded the break ball in the last 15 minutes of the first half.

SS2 fair play to you. And as always elegant with the font

[Maximus Marillius]

On a different note, does anybody know what the F.H.W. stands for written on mone's arm?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8066225.stm

Freeman Headbutted McGuckin. The M is upside-down.

[orangeman]

Pat Spillane will come out with the usual typical Ulster championship football - and maybe it was - and this is why Ulster remains probably the only true provincial champonship - whoever wins it deserves to win it.


That's why Armagh have won 7 titles in the last 10 or so and that's why they should be favourites next week against Tyrone ! 

[bingobus]

Whilst you can look at individual incidents involving Derry, you have to look at the whole ethos of the Monaghan team and I would encourage the heirarchy of the GAA to consider excluding Monaghan from the qualifier draw. I certainly wouldn't want them and their tactics sullying the hallowed turf of Casement Park later this summer.

That is the most crazy thing ever posted on this board, talk about over reacting. Monaghan aren't pretty and I don;t like watching them myself but to suggest they should be banned cause of their style of play is childish and beyond reason. Let the refs and other teams deal with it and when they get beat, it may dawn on them that they need to change the style of play.

By your post you'd swear that Monaghan had murdered someone. Remember yesterday that Derry sub, only in the game and who hadn't been on long enough to be mentally/physically abused by the Monaghan regime to such an extent that he had to take matters into his own hands, carried out the single worst act of the game and if its topped in the championship this year, it'll be some achievement.

[RMDrive]

It's a bit pathetic that people are trying to point the finger at the ref on this one. In fairness to the man, he had an absolutely impossible task. When 2 team go out with the playing of football as a secondary priority, then the ref is always going to have a tough time.
It's a typical reaction - rather than accepting that the blame lies with the players from both counties, fans from those counties try to deflect the focus onto the ref, or to the new rules, or to the old rules, or to last years game or to something else. Typical but disappointing.

[Maximus Marillius]

No the ref has to take the blame along with the teams. What did he do to deal with the agrression. Je waited until 12 minutes from full time to deliver a message that then made one team play football. His linesmen and umpires were a disgrace, because they were able to see more than him and did nothing about it. They are also guilty.

[JMohan]

I'm not sure anyone is blaming the ref fully on this - but he does need to take on alot of the blame for letting the game run out of control.
For a game like that you need an iron fist. Everyone knew it was going to be a huge game.

Players will try anything to get an advantage if they think they can.
If he had reacted from the start and booked a few early on he would have gotten a better response rather than letting things get out of hand.

[blewuporstuffed]

From a neutral point of view;
I def thought mullan was the one that wrestled mcmanus to the ground, and then drove the knee in him as he got up, which the refferee prob didnt see.This is why mullan got a yellow, not a red.
When the incident is looked at on video evidence he should get a hefty suspension.will be interesting to see what they will give him as they have now set the bar very high with the ricey suspension and IMO this was much worse.
Feargal Doc may have been unfortunate to get the second yellow card for the incident he did, but he should have known better while already on ayellow and prob deserved to go for several other incidents in the game.
Overall I thought the refferee was decent, in what was a very hard game to handle.the football wasnt great and it was ugly at times, but lets not all get carried away in the  mass hysteria of how football is doomed casue of games like this,it was a poor ,niggly game.lets move on.
was also disapointed with how jarlath burns used it on BBC as an excuse to talk up his own agenda for the rule changes again,saying this is why managers shouldnt have a say, the motion was defeated, becasue most people didnnt want the change,end of.

[Winnie Peg]

I am an Armagh man and have not been pleased with everything Armagh have done over the years before you say it. Yesterday's game was a disgrace for the GAA and the book should be thrown at both teams. As regards the Derry N. 6, McGoldrick....as the ball was being thrown in to start the game he reached round the Monaghan No. 11, Finlay and punched him hard in the face in an unprovoked attack. This looked to me as something that was preplanned and doesn't look well for Cassidy

[orangeman]

Jimmy White had an opportunity in the first half to send a few men off - most notably Fergal Doc - but he didn't do it and probably he contributed to the whole indiscipline thing - he should have put a marker down earlier than he did.

It wasn't impossible to ref had he applied the rules strictly.