Doire v Mhuineacháin 24/5/09

[bingobus]

Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day 

Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.

I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.

There's a reason for that.

Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times.  As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.

He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.

And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.

I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!

So those qualities are what makes a good player?  Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves.  I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.

I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.

Not qualities of a good player but of a lesser player looking to even the playing field. It happens in the vast majority of games played, one way or other. Dick does go overboard at times and defo gets himself in trouble.

I'd away with your assessment and can understand your bias.

The issue I would have is that Dick Clerkin shouldn't be as big a factor in all of this as Brolly and Co have made him out to be. It was complete character assisnation. Doc made his own decisions on how to act that day and he acted the maggot on more than one occassion. We are all responsible for our actions and should take it on the chin. Brollys defence would appear to be that it was all Dicks fault and the Doc was acting in self defence! He's an experienced intercounty midfield player, he should be laughing at the likes of Clerkin.  

Dry your eyes bingobus! Dick acted the maggot all day and fingers crossed maybe he'll get reprimanded now too based on the new video evidence.
I think in the interests of fairness, natural justice and a level playing field this should be the case.    

In that case a number of other incidents may also be captured by Brollys CCTV:
McGoldrick thumping Finlay from behind as the ball was been thrown in,
Doc stepping on Dessies Mones back after about ten minutes when he could have avoided it (has he also recently been accused of doing this in a club match?)
Cassidy telling his players at half time to do whatever they wanted to the Monaghan players as it was clear the umpires weren't going to do anything.

I'll look forward to the above been dealt with.

[SidelineKick]

Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day 

Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.

I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.

There's a reason for that.

Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times.  As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.

He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.

And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.

I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!

So those qualities are what makes a good player?  Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves.  I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.

I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.

Not qualities of a good player but of a lesser player looking to even the playing field. It happens in the vast majority of games played, one way or other. Dick does go overboard at times and defo gets himself in trouble.

I'd away with your assessment and can understand your bias.

The issue I would have is that Dick Clerkin shouldn't be as big a factor in all of this as Brolly and Co have made him out to be. It was complete character assisnation. Doc made his own decisions on how to act that day and he acted the maggot on more than one occassion. We are all responsible for our actions and should take it on the chin. Brollys defence would appear to be that it was all Dicks fault and the Doc was acting in self defence! He's an experienced intercounty midfield player, he should be laughing at the likes of Clerkin.  

Dry your eyes bingobus! Dick acted the maggot all day and fingers crossed maybe he'll get reprimanded now too based on the new video evidence.
I think in the interests of fairness, natural justice and a level playing field this should be the case.    

In that case a number of other incidents may also be captured by Brollys CCTV:
McGoldrick thumping Finlay from behind as the ball was been thrown in,
Doc stepping on Dessies Mones back after about ten minutes when he could have avoided it (has he also recently been accused of doing this in a club match?)
Cassidy telling his players at half time to do whatever they wanted to the Monaghan players as it was clear the umpires weren't going to do anything.
I'll look forward to the above been dealt with.

I'll be looking forward to the video evidence of this. If there's CCTV in the changing rooms then we're into a whole different ball game altogether!

[bingobus]

Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day 

Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.

I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.

There's a reason for that.

Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times.  As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.

He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.

And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.

I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!

So those qualities are what makes a good player?  Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves.  I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.

I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.

Not qualities of a good player but of a lesser player looking to even the playing field. It happens in the vast majority of games played, one way or other. Dick does go overboard at times and defo gets himself in trouble.

I'd away with your assessment and can understand your bias.

The issue I would have is that Dick Clerkin shouldn't be as big a factor in all of this as Brolly and Co have made him out to be. It was complete character assisnation. Doc made his own decisions on how to act that day and he acted the maggot on more than one occassion. We are all responsible for our actions and should take it on the chin. Brollys defence would appear to be that it was all Dicks fault and the Doc was acting in self defence! He's an experienced intercounty midfield player, he should be laughing at the likes of Clerkin.  

Dry your eyes bingobus! Dick acted the maggot all day and fingers crossed maybe he'll get reprimanded now too based on the new video evidence.
I think in the interests of fairness, natural justice and a level playing field this should be the case.    

In that case a number of other incidents may also be captured by Brollys CCTV:
McGoldrick thumping Finlay from behind as the ball was been thrown in,
Doc stepping on Dessies Mones back after about ten minutes when he could have avoided it (has he also recently been accused of doing this in a club match?)
Cassidy telling his players at half time to do whatever they wanted to the Monaghan players as it was clear the umpires weren't going to do anything.
I'll look forward to the above been dealt with.

I'll be looking forward to the video evidence of this. If there's CCTV in the changing rooms then we're into a whole different ball game altogether!

Well Big Brother Brolly seemed to cameras coming out his Arse, so he may have one there as well.

Puts the argument that Derry where provoked into context.

[SidelineKick]

Puts the argument that Derry where provoked into context.


What does 

[bingobus]

Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.

Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc

Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.

[Oakleafer1993]

It's on the Drivetime sport podcast if you want to have a listen to it.

http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-25m30s-110609-drivetimesportthursday.mp3

just listened to the recording. I hope they throw the book at the tr**p that put the studs into fergals face.
Total disgrace. Just what you would expect of Monaghan. At the end of the day it was McEnaney that encouraged this dirt.
The players just didn't decide to act the maggot - they where coached to do it.

[SidelineKick]

Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc

Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.

Where are you getting that from can I ask?

[bingobus]

Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc

Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.

Where are you getting that from can I ask?

I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.

[SidelineKick]

Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc

Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.

Where are you getting that from can I ask?

I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.

You were told by someone who was told by someone else?  **Sighs**

You can't be serious? Where did this Derry man hear from the Derry players? Plural I might add.  Was it a public meeting where they all stood together and stated this?

Cassidy's style? Says a Banty follower.

[bingobus]

Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc

Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.

Where are you getting that from can I ask?

I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.

You were told by someone who was told by someone else?  **Sighs**

You can't be serious? Where did this Derry man hear from the Derry players? Plural I might add.  Was it a public meeting where they all stood together and stated this?

Cassidy's style? Says a Banty follower.

I don't like Bantys style, no problem saying that, always have.

You believe what you want, this person voluntered the info to me and I'd have no reason to doubt him.

Ask a Derry player if you like. Did you expect me to say Cassidy himself told me!!!

I really don't care if you believe me or not tbh.

[thebandit]

It's on the Drivetime sport podcast if you want to have a listen to it.

http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-25m30s-110609-drivetimesportthursday.mp3

just listened to the recording. I hope they throw the book at the tr**p that put the studs into fergals face.
Total disgrace. Just what you would expect of Monaghan. At the end of the day it was McEnaney that encouraged this dirt.
The players just didn't decide to act the maggot - they where coached to do it.

Four weeks seems to be the run of the mill punishment for cowardly acts

[SidelineKick]

Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc

Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.

Where are you getting that from can I ask?

I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.

You were told by someone who was told by someone else?  **Sighs**

You can't be serious? Where did this Derry man hear from the Derry players? Plural I might add.  Was it a public meeting where they all stood together and stated this?

Cassidy's style? Says a Banty follower.

I don't like Bantys style, no problem saying that, always have.

You believe what you want, this person voluntered the info to me and I'd have no reason to doubt him.

Ask a Derry player if you like. Did you expect me to say Cassidy himself told me!!!

I really don't care if you believe me or not tbh.

I'm sure you don't bingobus but by the same token you are believing what you want to hear. Had the same person told you Cassidy told the players to stick to football I'm quite sure you would have dismissed it very quickly as lies.

I would doubt that Cass would encourage his players to "do whatever they want" on the basis that the umpires "will do nothing".  It's a bit of a stupid risk do you not think? I think you're believing what you want to believe he said, but if you stood back and looked at it logically you'd realise it's very unlikely.

[bingobus]

Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc

Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.

Where are you getting that from can I ask?

I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.

You were told by someone who was told by someone else?  **Sighs**

You can't be serious? Where did this Derry man hear from the Derry players? Plural I might add.  Was it a public meeting where they all stood together and stated this?

Cassidy's style? Says a Banty follower.

I don't like Bantys style, no problem saying that, always have.

You believe what you want, this person voluntered the info to me and I'd have no reason to doubt him.

Ask a Derry player if you like. Did you expect me to say Cassidy himself told me!!!

I really don't care if you believe me or not tbh.

I'm sure you don't bingobus but by the same token you are believing what you want to hear. Had the same person told you Cassidy told the players to stick to football I'm quite sure you would have dismissed it very quickly as lies.

I would doubt that Cass would encourage his players to "do whatever they want" on the basis that the umpires "will do nothing".  It's a bit of a stupid risk do you not think? I think you're believing what you want to believe he said, but if you stood back and looked at it logically you'd realise it's very unlikely.

Well the second half evidence would suggest that some players did do exactly what they wanted. If you looked at it logically of course.
Is it a risk? First half, umpires do nothing and plenty happening. Second half, the same. Worst case is we get one man sent off. Could take one of them with us?

Managers are there to take risks, calculated ones. Everything is at stake.

[SidelineKick]

Cassidy telling his players at half time that the umpires aren't going to do anything and that they can get away with what they wanted.
Hence kneeing players on the ground, kicking players twice in a row on the back of the legs, etc

Monaghan could have played anyway in the second half but Derry where instructed to play beoynd the edge of the rules.

Where are you getting that from can I ask?

I was told by a Derryman who heard from the Derry players who apparently where quite boastful of it after the game.
It would be Cassidys style as well.

You were told by someone who was told by someone else?  **Sighs**

You can't be serious? Where did this Derry man hear from the Derry players? Plural I might add.  Was it a public meeting where they all stood together and stated this?

Cassidy's style? Says a Banty follower.

I don't like Bantys style, no problem saying that, always have.

You believe what you want, this person voluntered the info to me and I'd have no reason to doubt him.

Ask a Derry player if you like. Did you expect me to say Cassidy himself told me!!!

I really don't care if you believe me or not tbh.

I'm sure you don't bingobus but by the same token you are believing what you want to hear. Had the same person told you Cassidy told the players to stick to football I'm quite sure you would have dismissed it very quickly as lies.

I would doubt that Cass would encourage his players to "do whatever they want" on the basis that the umpires "will do nothing".  It's a bit of a stupid risk do you not think? I think you're believing what you want to believe he said, but if you stood back and looked at it logically you'd realise it's very unlikely.

Well the second half evidence would suggest that some players did do exactly what they wanted. If you looked at it logically of course.
Is it a risk? First half, umpires do nothing and plenty happening. Second half, the same. Worst case is we get one man sent off. Could take one of them with us?

Managers are there to take risks, calculated ones. Everything is at stake.

True.  But perhaps he let rip at a few boys that he thought were being walked over.  the players themselves certainly could have taken the "I'll show him" attitude.  I don't think there's any point in speculating over what Cass might have told his players.

I'm sure you have no reason to doubt your source (apart from the fact its 3rd person information), but some people thrive on controversial changing room, training, weekends away stories.

I'm sure Banty's words at half time mirrored what Cass was saying.  Although I realise you have already made you position clear with regards to banty.

[bingobus]

True.  But perhaps he let rip at a few boys that he thought were being walked over.  the players themselves certainly could have taken the "I'll show him" attitude.  I don't think there's any point in speculating over what Cass might have told his players.

I'm sure you have no reason to doubt your source (apart from the fact its 3rd person information), but some people thrive on controversial changing room, training, weekends away stories.

I'm sure Banty's words at half time mirrored what Cass was saying.  Although I realise you have already made you position clear with regards to banty.

I'm sure Banty had told them what to do all week, before and during the game.

I know that some players, groups of players etc have been given very specific instructions regarding opposition. Seen it first hand and know players who will tell you exactly what they were told to do. Its niave, am sure you know as much, to think otherwise.

What is annoying to me, that if this is true, and it then appears to be the basis of the appeals that they were put provoked/bullied/defending themselves/trying to break free etc etc to do what they did, it makes a totally mockery of the GAA been a honest game. Why, if true, can't Cassidy be a man and say, right we bent the rules and will pay for it?

Instead they actually look to get further suspensions imposed on opponents that they have beaten on the field and now what to beat them further off it?

The days of it been a mans game is long gone. If true of course.