Doire v Mhuineacháin 24/5/09

[Main Street]

This bit has me well confused. Any chance of making it a bit clearer. Are you suggesting I am an Armagh man? If so, well done - you win a prize. Twit of the week.

At least you had the honesty not to be confused about the 'loudmouth snitch' label

Anyway, if this entertainment for you, you're a walking tragedy from God knows where.

[Maguire01]

As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.  

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.

[saffron sam2]

This bit has me well confused. Any chance of making it a bit clearer. Are you suggesting I am an Armagh man? If so, well done - you win a prize. Twit of the week.

At least you had the honesty not to be confused about the 'loudmouth snitch' label

Anyway, if this entertainment for you, you're a walking tragedy from God knows where.

One out of three is an achievement. Again, well done.

Despite your intellect, my original point remains. The team posted in the way thebandit posted it is embarrassing.

Serious discussion about Sunday's game would be entertaining for me, but how can it be serious (or indeed entertaining) if a relatively well-informed Gael like myself is excluded.

[Main Street]

As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.  

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.

There was a distinct air of 'just getting back into gear', about that 1st round qualifier last year.

[Logan]

As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.  

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.

Last year Monaghan were training at 99 miles an hour and got caught on the hop by ignoring Fermanagh's ability.

The took some time off got fresh and got up for the next game - Derry were still in shock after the Fermangh game (only trained twice between games) and Monaghan brought a higher level of intensity than Derry to Clones.

Derry will be alot fresher this Sunday.

[Logan]

As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.  

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.

There was a distinct air of 'just getting back into gear', about that 1st round qualifier last year.

Not to mentioned McElkennon had killed Monaghan and burned them out completely that winter and they were dead on their feet for the Fermanagh game.
I suppose he was under a little pressure having just gone full time and had to justify the wages, but he did overtrain them.

[whiskeysteve]

The diference is Derry are quite familiar with the Monaghan team but this Derry team had had an overhaul with 2/3 of the team from the last day not playing.

So.... that would mean only a third of the Derry players on Sunday are familar with the Monaghan team, and it's the management first meeting with them.

That's just blown Oakleafer's observation out of the water!

Not really, because they know the tactics that Monaghan are likely to employ on the Bradleys etc but the don't know how Kielt and the Mc Goldricks will perform.

But Monaghan may well employ totally different tactics on the Bradleys.... and we've all seen Kielt etc in operation during the league, so maybe we could have an insight into Derry's tactics in that respect...

Basically i don't think one team has any distinct advantage over the other in relation to knowledge of the opposition.

In fairness to OL93 I can see Derry having a bit more potential to spring a surprise, in terms of tactics/system whatever you want to call it. Its not much of a factor but still could make a difference, especially as Cassidy's bench has seen plenty of action in the league. We might just be a bit more flexible. Monaghan are a seasoned team and their style is well known on the other hand. The new Derry panel will at least be familiar with the Monaghan players from seeing them in action over the past few years, even I am fairly familiar with most of them whereas even a lot of Derry people arent too familiar with our HB and HF lines for instance. Exploiting this knowledge is a different matter though, hope Cass can a see a way to get at Monaghan and get it through to the players. Easier said than done.

I don't see much sense in that post.

Cassidys bench has seen plenty of action? - You're using that as a reason to be optimistic? Not that the bench isn't important - I'd be more worried about the guys missing from the starting 15.
Flexible? I'm not sure you can say that as though it was planned either, men getting injured etc.
Also - I'm yet to be convinced by Cassidy yet. All his huff and puff about Championship has yet to be proven. He's not unearthed any great talent that wasn't there in 08 - apart from Kielt who I think was drafted in last year at the end if I remember correctly?

The two things I will give him credit for though are introducing Barry McGoldrick to centre back which might work well and getting more out of Eoin Bradley.
If Derry win I expect those two to have a major say in the game.

His test comes on Sunday.

As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.  

Think you might have took me up wrong. I was just saying that the Derry panel has seen plenty of action and in a wide variety of positions (moreso than the Monaghan panel IMO) so Cassidy has plenty of options in selecting players, i.e. he has more flexibility in his options. I think this is a small factor as I said but it could be crucial as we have the potential to adapt our game, the team this year seems to be more versatile, e.g. barry mcguigan, the mcgoldricks could switch between several different positions no bother. This is the way the top teams are going, the flexibility of the Tyrone team is a case in point. Im not sure what made you think that i said the injuries were planned, obviously they werent. But we have very good cover for positions this year.

On the other side of the coin you could say that Monaghan have the more experienced, well drilled gameplan with their settled first 15, nevertheless whether you interpret it as advantageous for one side or the other it is a factor.

You talk about unearthing talent, I think this is very much 2nd to establishing a well drilled, tactically adept team. We have had a crop of talented enough individuals to go for an Ulster title for the past few years IMO - it is getting them to work as a unit that was the problem. Their are plenty of new faces this year that show signs of slotting into quietly effective team roles, and yes I know, league means little, but sure thats what you have to go on reading into a first round tie.

[Joel Cairo]

Not long until Sunday now folks, and the game we've all been waiting for. Forget Tyrone or Dublin in the league, or Kerry in the league final - this is the big one.
Well one of the big ones anyway (hopefully).

We're hampered with injuries alright, but it's still a solid looking Derry team.
Kielt in the forwards was the one big decision that had to be made imo. McGuigan could have been named here, with Mullan at wing-forward, but Kielt has got the nod. Seamy Bradley and Brown were other options, but they would have been too much of a risk.

I see some on here were thinking that Kielt may have been named at wing-forward, but if you rewind back to the Tyrone game in Omagh, this particular experiment didn't work at all. McGuigan will play the link role effectively as he can play in either half-back or half-forward line.

It all points to Kielt playing inside along with Paddy Bradley. Whether this means Derry will play a more direct game at times remains to be seen. Skinner* will more than likely provide attacking impetus on the '40. Running through the middle is one way of putting a blanket defence on the back foot (Down did it on sunday in the first half to reasonable effect, before abandoning this tactic for some reason). Hopefully skinner* can do the business. He has been absolutely superb so far this year.

As for the defence, who will pick up who - it will depend on what side Monaghan name I suppose. G O'kane could be tasked with marking Freeman, but he's not really a natural man-marker. It might be better if he follows the likes of Woods out the pitch.

Good to see Damian Cassidy getitng the team named early in the week - shows confidence. This nonsense of naming fake teams, and supposedly keeping the opposition guessing helps no-one. Again, look at Down last weekend.

Really looking forward to the game. We need a totally different approach from the last couple of years. We need to be cuter, and literally get into Monaghan's faces. They'll be entering Celtic Park with something of a siege mentality; we need to kick it out of them!!


*Eoin Bradley

[Logan]

I'd rather see O'kane out the field too.
Last year the second year he turned the game when he attacked.

I don't understand this nonsense of saying one of the Bradleys need to come out to the 40!

Eoin Bradley needs to stay closer to the goal than the 40 - Look at his good games this years - always been at or near FF this year AND he's scoring too.
I'd leave the two boys inside and let it in to them. Look at Donegal last year, Kerry last year - even the first half against Kerry this year. Playing the two best forwards you have further away from the goal is just retarded.

Bring either of them out to the 40 and the ball will only go to the brother, time after time they'll look for each other. Leave the too boys inside. That'll be enough to give the Moens and Corey heart palpitations.

[loughshore lad]

As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.  

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.

There was a distinct air of 'just getting back into gear', about that 1st round qualifier last year.

Not to mentioned McElkennon had killed Monaghan and burned them out completely that winter and they were dead on their feet for the Fermanagh game.
I suppose he was under a little pressure having just gone full time and had to justify the wages, but he did overtrain them.

You say McElkennon had gone full time, what do you mean by that?  Is he officially employed by the Monaghan Co board?

[ONeill]

Lookin forward to this game as a neutral more than any other. We have serial chokers Derry against the Fearless Farney Fisticuffers.

Derry are a rare breed of player. They appear to have all the ingredients but when mashed together they come loose at the edges, around 55 mins. Since the 70s, Derry have churned out at least one Anglo-Celt a decade yet time is running out. It is 11 years since their last although their previous barren period was also of the same length, 76-87.

So, what's their problem? Well, with this team it's the Bradleys. They're simply not team players and have always given me the overriding impression that they're in it for personal glory above team ethic. No manager will knock that out of them. Unfortunately they are the best forwards Derry have and until Derry can find 1-2 scoring forwards of equal or better talent than the Glenuillin moochers then their reliance on Paddy and Eoin will see to it that their barren run continues. Muldoon, the false God, simply hasn't the temperament to turn or influence big games on the big stage, no matter what the Sperrin lads would have you believe. He'll churn out the odd good 60 mins for his club but that's it. McCloy's arse is far too big and is feeding off one decent year, a bit like Lyng of Cavan. Big Fergal Doherty is a bit one-dimensional, albeit a decent ginger player and they have a plethora of nondescript defenders (Tyrone-lite) who'll nullify the likes of Liam McBarron or Ronan Sexton but will be caught like a badger in the headlights too easily.

Monaghan are good.

Derry 2-12 Monaghan 2-12

[Logan]

As for Monaghan I think this will be a completely different test to before. They aren't going in with the same intensity as last years game and I think if Derry bring the very intense 'in your face game' Monaghan might struggle to reach the levels of intensity they reached before.  

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I expect this weekend's game to be more intense than last year. It's the Ulster Championship.

There was a distinct air of 'just getting back into gear', about that 1st round qualifier last year.

Not to mentioned McElkennon had killed Monaghan and burned them out completely that winter and they were dead on their feet for the Fermanagh game.
I suppose he was under a little pressure having just gone full time and had to justify the wages, but he did overtrain them.

You say McElkennon had gone full time, what do you mean by that?  Is he officially employed by the Monaghan Co board?

No

He's the full time trainer for the Monaghan County team

Doesn't everyone know that? Thought it was common knowledge now across the province.

For the past 2 years some business men have been paying him £3,100 a month (50k a year) to train Monaghan full time.

Of course that get's the county board out of the loop.

[Logan]

Lookin forward to this game as a neutral more than any other. We have serial chokers Derry against the Fearless Farney Fisticuffers.

Derry are a rare breed of player. They appear to have all the ingredients but when mashed together they come loose at the edges, around 55 mins. Since the 70s, Derry have churned out at least one Anglo-Celt a decade yet time is running out. It is 11 years since their last although their previous barren period was also of the same length, 76-87.

So, what's their problem? Well, with this team it's the Bradleys. They're simply not team players and have always given me the overriding impression that they're in it for personal glory above team ethic. No manager will knock that out of them. Unfortunately they are the best forwards Derry have and until Derry can find 1-2 scoring forwards of equal or better talent than the Glenuillin moochers then their reliance on Paddy and Eoin will see to it that their barren run continues. Muldoon, the false God, simply hasn't the temperament to turn or influence big games on the big stage, no matter what the Sperrin lads would have you believe. He'll churn out the odd good 60 mins for his club but that's it. McCloy's arse is far too big and is feeding off one decent year, a bit like Lyng of Cavan. Big Fergal Doherty is a bit one-dimensional, albeit a decent ginger player and they have a plethora of nondescript defenders (Tyrone-lite) who'll nullify the likes of Liam McBarron or Ronan Sexton but will be caught like a badger in the headlights too easily.

Monaghan are good.

Derry 2-12 Monaghan 2-12

Too much uninformed bullsh*t there for a detailed response  ...

Briefly -

- Bradleys have been greedy before, but over the past 2 years have been excellent county players
- Muldoon has some injuries that limit him and doesn't owe Derry or anyone anything
- Fergal Doherty has been probably one of the outstanding midfielders of the past 5 years in Ulster- Last years league final seems distant for many.
- McCloy is as lean a player as you'll get and last year had a poor year since he was carrying 3 serious injuries and probably shouldn't have played at all

[ONeill]

Ah catch a grip of reality. The Bradleys and the overdependence on their individual talent is the one reason why Derry haven't even smelt the burgers on an Ulster final day since 2000. Paddy can rack up 3-13 against Wexford but will throw the head up when you most need him.

No player owes anyone anything but Muldoon never delivered. All I remember is a catch he made in 1998 I think against Galway.

McCloy is too ponderous and flat-footed with the big arse.

Fergal Doherty may be the all-action guy but is undeniably predictable. Elbows Tohill could catch a ball in his own square and pop up a minute later with a grass-cutter to the back of the onion bag.

Your one hope is Cassidy. He has the Midas touch. To take Clonoe to an O'Neill Cup was close to miraculous and in time that achievement will receive its full recognition. This year highlighted even more with the O'Rahillys kicking their heels in May.

Cassidy knows how to win games with any outfit. He's a bit like Malachy O'Rourke but with better resources. If O'Rourke can bring Fermanagh to the fingernails of an Ulster, Cassidy can get the most out of a sow's ear.

[Logan]

Ah catch a grip of reality. The Bradleys and the overdependence on their individual talent is the one reason why Derry haven't even smelt the burgers on an Ulster final day since 2000. Paddy can rack up 3-13 against Wexford but will throw the head up when you most need him.

No player owes anyone anything but Muldoon never delivered. All I remember is a catch he made in 1998 I think against Galway.

McCloy is too ponderous and flat-footed with the big arse.

Fergal Doherty may be the all-action guy but is undeniably predictable. Elbows Tohill could catch a ball in his own square and pop up a minute later with a grass-cutter to the back of the onion bag.

Your one hope is Cassidy. He has the Midas touch. To take Clonoe to an O'Neill Cup was close to miraculous and in time that achievement will receive its full recognition. This year highlighted even more with the O'Rahillys kicking their heels in May.

Cassidy knows how to win games with any outfit. He's a bit like Malachy O'Rourke but with better resources. If O'Rourke can bring Fermanagh to the fingernails of an Ulster, Cassidy can get the most out of a sow's ear.

Very misinformed

If you think McCloy has a big arse you're blind. Castigating Doherty because he's not Tohill is irrelevant.
To slate Muldoon without knowing the injuries the man has is again ignorant
Last year was an excellent year for Cassidy at club level, but he was with Clonoe this year too - shows how much you know.
He has it all to prove at inter-county level. I suspect the hard hitting passion, blood and guts, ignoramus approach, will only get them so far. Ulster title max.

Then again the tone suggests you're happy in your world.