Doire v Mhuineacháin 24/5/09

[Main Street]

Joe Brolly was on the Des Cahiill programme on RTE radio one tonight putting forward was sounded suspiciously like a legal defence for Fergal Doherty when he appears on the expected charges. I missed the start, as I was driving, but, after patronising Dick Clerkin, and saying he could sometimes be an effective midfielder, Brolly went on to put the entire blame for the trouble on the Monaghan man.

 
About as likely a story as from the police giving an account of how the prisoner fell from the 4th floor window.

Derry have not stopped squealing "he made me do it". 
Are Derry people not embarrassed by this emasculated idiot?

Not one bit, I think Joseph is a fine ambassador for the oak leaf county.
Why would we be embarrassed?  What exactly is it that makes you call a barrister an idiot?

idiotic?
His idiotic  "they made us do it" defense.
Embarrassment?
Squealing "they made me do it, your honour"

Other than his immature justifications, his  incapability of  recognising responsibility for the actions of his own team, I don't mind Brolly at all.
If Derry play dirthy, then fine, that's what they felt they had to do to match Monaghan.
From a Monaghan point of view, it's just that Derry looked clumsy doing it.
Did they have to do it, imo they didn't, other good teams didn't have to, they could stand their ground and outplay Monaghan.
As for CCCC I don't think there should be any post match punishments dished out, not even for the idiot who faked getting hit.
Doherty's kick did not do any damage and he got himself sent off anyway.
Imo, there was nothing that happened in that game that was worthy of any further sanctions.

[Oakleafer93]

cant be bothered reading the whole thread. what i will say is that i am proud of the way derry stood up to the challenge on sunday. yes there were nasty incidents, and some players on both sides went way over the top, but after the past 2 years against monaghan i'm glad derry stood up to the physical challenge from monaghan.

2007 we were well beaten, a late goal and 2 points put a decent look on the scoreboard. while we were outplayed and out fought by a hungier and more determined team that day, i felt last year they stepped it up a notch in terms of intimidation. ferghal doc was subjected to some very crude challenges of the the ball that day, and he did react and struck clerkin i think it was and should have walked. thats one thing that would worry me about doc, last year against monaghan and donegal he reacted, and i feel opponents will now set out to wind him up.  there were also numerous other off the ball incidents and to be honest too many of out players did not want it enough.

considering we had lockhart, mccusker, cartin, mick mcgoldrick, patsy bradley and muldoon all unavailable for sunday, and given our lack of fight in 07 and 08, i am delighted we won on sunday.

it wasnt pretty but it was effective. yes at times players over stepped the mark, but id rather players fought for the cause instead of bottling out of challenges. we played off the cuff against monaghan in 07 and 08, tried to play attacking football and it didnt work. sunday was all about the result.

i hope we can expand our game the next day against tyrone or armagh and concentrate more on the football as we are capable of better. but as long as we show the determination we did on sunday, then i reckon thats half the battle.

wots that about?

Think he means Michael Mc Goldrick from Bellaghy, not sure if he's even in the country at the mo or of he is coming back to the panel. He would be a welcome addition excellent Man marker.

[Maguire01]

Imo, there was nothing that happened in that game that was worthy of any further sanctions.

Not even the knee to the groin? If not then presumably you think that McMenamin and McGuigan shouldn't have been sanctioned earlier in the year?

[SidelineKick]

Joe Brolly was on the Des Cahiill programme on RTE radio one tonight putting forward was sounded suspiciously like a legal defence for Fergal Doherty when he appears on the expected charges. I missed the start, as I was driving, but, after patronising Dick Clerkin, and saying he could sometimes be an effective midfielder, Brolly went on to put the entire blame for the trouble on the Monaghan man.

 
About as likely a story as from the police giving an account of how the prisoner fell from the 4th floor window.

Derry have not stopped squealing "he made me do it". 
Are Derry people not embarrassed by this emasculated idiot?

Not one bit, I think Joseph is a fine ambassador for the oak leaf county.
Why would we be embarrassed?  What exactly is it that makes you call a barrister an idiot?

idiotic?
His idiotic  "they made us do it" defense.
Embarrassment?
Squealing "they made me do it, your honour"

Other than his immature justifications, his  incapability of  recognising responsibility for the actions of his own team, I don't mind Brolly at all.
If Derry play dirthy, then fine, that's what they felt they had to do to match Monaghan.
From a Monaghan point of view, it's just that Derry looked clumsy doing it.
Did they have to do it, imo they didn't, other good teams didn't have to, they could stand their ground and outplay Monaghan.
As for CCCC I don't think there should be any post match punishments dished out, not even for the idiot who faked getting hit.
Doherty's kick did not do any damage and he got himself sent off anyway.
Imo, there was nothing that happened in that game that was worthy of any further sanctions.

1) I don't think Brolly is embarrassing anyone with his comments.
2) There is a difference between saying something idiotic and being an idiot.  I'm sure you will now agree that Brolly is certainly not the latter.  What were Joe's exact words? Did he actually say "they made us do it" or are you making up your own version to suit your theory of him being an idiot?

As for no more suspensions etc being handed out I would be a hypocrite if I said I agreed.  Mullan is ruined and rightly so, Doc could be in trouble too. Whether or not he hurt Clerkin is irrelevant.

[ONeill]

Brilliant article by Brolly in today's paper

[ardmhachaabu]

Can you post it ONeill?

[Oakleafer93]

Brilliant article by Brolly in today's paper

It is isn't it. Shows up the pundits like Spillane and O Rourke for taking the moral high ground exactly for the hypocrites that they are.

[Oakleafer93]

Can you post it ONeill?

I'm not sure if it's up on the web yet, usually midweek or so before they appear on the GL website.

[Main Street]

1) I don't think Brolly is embarrassing anyone with his comments.

Fair enough. I would be embrassed by such a juvenile idiotic defense.

2) There is a difference between saying something idiotic and being an idiot.  I'm sure you will now agree that Brolly is certainly not the latter.

You are correct, I should have written that he made an idiotic comment rather than being an idiot for making such a comment.

What were Joe's exact words? Did he actually say "they made us do it" or are you making up your own version to suit your theory of him being an idiot?

I can't give an exact quote, I just heard him on Rte radio sports, the jist of his defense was Clerkin made him do it, my listening ability is better than my recall.

Not even the knee to the groin? If not then presumably you think that McMenamin and McGuigan shouldn't have been sanctioned earlier in the year?

I didn't see that game, presumably televised, caught on camera, much shock horror by the pundits.
Fundamentally I do not agree with incidents caught on RTE cameras, the highlight of much criticism by the outraged panellites, then becoming the selective focus of the CCCC.
Video evidence is good when it comes to determining the extent of a red card, like with McQuaid last year.
But are the CCCC being led by the nose when they only focus on RTE highlights? I think so.
Either they they look at all the game from all the angles or not all.

[southderryman]

cant be bothered reading the whole thread. what i will say is that i am proud of the way derry stood up to the challenge on sunday. yes there were nasty incidents, and some players on both sides went way over the top, but after the past 2 years against monaghan i'm glad derry stood up to the physical challenge from monaghan.

2007 we were well beaten, a late goal and 2 points put a decent look on the scoreboard. while we were outplayed and out fought by a hungier and more determined team that day, i felt last year they stepped it up a notch in terms of intimidation. ferghal doc was subjected to some very crude challenges of the the ball that day, and he did react and struck clerkin i think it was and should have walked. thats one thing that would worry me about doc, last year against monaghan and donegal he reacted, and i feel opponents will now set out to wind him up.  there were also numerous other off the ball incidents and to be honest too many of out players did not want it enough.

considering we had lockhart, mccusker, cartin, mick mcgoldrick, patsy bradley and muldoon all unavailable for sunday, and given our lack of fight in 07 and 08, i am delighted we won on sunday.

it wasnt pretty but it was effective. yes at times players over stepped the mark, but id rather players fought for the cause instead of bottling out of challenges. we played off the cuff against monaghan in 07 and 08, tried to play attacking football and it didnt work. sunday was all about the result.

i hope we can expand our game the next day against tyrone or armagh and concentrate more on the football as we are capable of better. but as long as we show the determination we did on sunday, then i reckon thats half the battle.

wots that about?

mickey mcgoldrick from bellaghy. great wee defender, excellent in 07 and was out injured last year, not at much luck with the hamstring and cant seem to stay fit. currently taking a break in oz as far as i know, would be a definite starter on our team.

[southderryman]

2007 we were well beaten, a late goal and 2 points put a decent look on the scoreboard. while we were outplayed and out fought by a hungier and more determined team that day, i felt last year they stepped it up a notch in terms of intimidation. ferghal doc was subjected to some very crude challenges of the the ball that day, and he did react and struck clerkin i think it was and should have walked. thats one thing that would worry me about doc, last year against monaghan and donegal he reacted, and i feel opponents will now set out to wind him up. 

You're off message there - Sunday was (apparently) totally out of character.

fergal doherty is very committed and honest footballer. and if he was allowed to get on with it is more than a match for any midfielder in ireland using fair means.

on sunday, for the 3rd year in a row monaghan, and in particular, dick clerkin set out to niggle and foul and generally do anything to stop him. he lost it on sunday to be fair and could have been sent off on any 1 of 3 occasions, i dont condone what he did, but i can certainly understand it.

refs will probably be watching fergal more closely from now on after the events on sunday, and im happy enough with that as it will offer him more protection from limited footballers with a clear agenda of stopping him playing rather than attempting to play themselves.

i wouldnt say sunday is completely out of character of him, as he has previous on 2 occasions. but fergal doherty does not go out to hit or scrap with men off the ball. he doesnt need to. what he needs to do is learn to curb his temper and not become involved when players attempt to get at him and wind him, easier said than done i know, but if he doesnt then most teams will use this to their advantage.

doherty is a big player for us, and while we ground out a win on sunday after he was sent off, we cant afford to be without him, especially in big games. i fear he'll now miss the tyrone/armagh game and will be a huge loss if he does.

[Oakleafer93]

Just bumping this us to see if anyone has the Joe Brolly Article from the GL.

[bigpaul]

Joe certainly went to town in the Gaelic Life, but I would have to say he used a lot of the barrister's tools when writing his column. He used multiple incidents as illustrations but didn't contextualise any of them.He went through the television pundits and gave instances to show them as hypocrites,however, he failed to mention Martin Mc Hugh all-together, and, when it came to Jarlath Burns, he said his were the most nauseating comments but they didn't matter because no-one watches the BBC. Would it be the case that these two would have to be acknowledged as two of the most sporting players of their generation? His 'damnation' of Spillane and O'Rourke consisted of incidents involving their team-mates, the 'sins of my brother' comes to mind.If I am correct, Joe Kernan didn't laugh at himand say he never fought on the field in his life.It was said in a Q&A session when Brolly was stealing the show and banter would have been the most appropriate term for the exchange.My memory of the '06 quarter-final doesn't include any 'incessant bad mouthing' of Kieran Donaghy by Paul Hearty,but rather one exchange in the first-half to which Donaghy responded when he scored his goal in the second.For Joe to flag up anyone for 'sledging' is just about as hypocritical as it gets, considering his blowing kisses was designed to humiliate and goad, not only the opposing team  but their supporters as well! To say that John Toal 'came onto the field and threw a flurry of punches' is also a misrepresentation.He was on the field and he and Galvin were involved in a confrontation in which a few punches were thrown,Galvin got a quare eye out of it(see it at 'Paul Galvinv Armagh'Youtube).
To use incidents from the past to excuse something that happens today does not stand up(we've always walked the traditional route)!I think Mickey Harte was right in his column in the Irish News when he said that Athony Tohill got it right.I have no doubt that there was some over-reaction, but Joe pushing it all on to Monaghan and Dick Clerkin, and him,Paddy Heaney and Kevin Madden saying 'what did you expect' is  just plain wrong!

[ExiledGael]

The upshoot:
Fergal Doherty eight weeks
Brian Mullan eight weeks
Tommy Freeman eight weeks

Monaghan and Derry fined ten grand each (euro) for "disruptive play". This could run a while.

[whiskeysteve]

Sure how can kevin madden turn round and criticise his own set up  

Also i think paddy heaney presented another side to the argument without setting out a reactive defence to the game and was quite right to.