Doire v Mhuineacháin 24/5/09

[Main Street]

Only a person not familiar with the ways of adverserial defense would fall for Brolly's blackening of Clerkin to whiten up Fergal.

[SidelineKick]

Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day 

Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.

I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.

There's a reason for that.

Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times.  As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.

He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.

[bingobus]

Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day 

Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.

I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.

There's a reason for that.

Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times.  As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.

He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.

And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.

I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!

[screenexile]

Just listened to the Drivetime sport there with Joe and it seems we don't know much about the disciplinary system at all. It would seem that Derry did not actually appeal the suspension but that the bans don't get imposed until the CHC meet and players get a chance to make their case to have the ban reduced or else they can just accept the punishment. Does this mean there is a further appeals process and then you can go to the DRA??

Anyway as mentioned by Joe the 2 Derry lads definitely did wrong in their incidents but there is strong evidence to show that neither Derry man was the instigator or aggressor of either incident. Fair enough and the way I would have seen both incidents. As for the stamping on the face incident well I hope that this new video evidence is acted upon and the sc**bag who committed the act gets what's coming to him.

As stated before I am glad both Derry men have admitted they did wrong and are accepting of their punishments. Again Indiana you have shown yourself to be wrong as it was accepted by the disciplinary committee that Mullan did not knee the Monaghan player in the groin area but rather the in the chest... By no means a manly act but some of the shite you've been spouting about him is just plain wrong and you should take back a number of your comments.

As for Banty and Joe well it wouldn't be difficult to decide who would win that debate! Loved the bit at the end where Con was winding him up about being a 'Queen's Counsel'. "God I would never swear an oath to that woman... not that there's anything wrong with her in particular I'm sure she's a lovely woman"  

[Maguire01]

it was accepted by the disciplinary committee that Mullan did not knee the Monaghan player in the groin area but rather the in the chest...

I hadn't read that - have you a source?

[bingobus]

Just listened to the Drivetime sport there with Joe and it seems we don't know much about the disciplinary system at all. It would seem that Derry did not actually appeal the suspension but that the bans don't get imposed until the CHC meet and players get a chance to make their case to have the ban reduced or else they can just accept the punishment. Does this mean there is a further appeals process and then you can go to the DRA??

Anyway as mentioned by Joe the 2 Derry lads definitely did wrong in their incidents but there is strong evidence to show that neither Derry man was the instigator or aggressor of either incident. Fair enough and the way I would have seen both incidents. As for the stamping on the face incident well I hope that this new video evidence is acted upon and the sc**bag who committed the act gets what's coming to him.

As stated before I am glad both Derry men have admitted they did wrong and are accepting of their punishments. Again Indiana you have shown yourself to be wrong as it was accepted by the disciplinary committee that Mullan did not knee the Monaghan player in the groin area but rather the in the chest... By no means a manly act but some of the shite you've been spouting about him is just plain wrong and you should take back a number of your comments.

As for Banty and Joe well it wouldn't be difficult to decide who would win that debate! Loved the bit at the end where Con was winding him up about being a 'Queen's Counsel'. "God I would never swear an oath to that woman... not that there's anything wrong with her in particular I'm sure she's a lovely woman"  

Total bullshit....no more than i'd expect!

[SidelineKick]

Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day 

Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.

I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.

There's a reason for that.

Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times.  As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.

He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.

And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.

I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!

So those qualities are what makes a good player?  Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves.  I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.

I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.

[screenexile]

It's on the Drivetime sport podcast if you want to have a listen to it.

http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-25m30s-110609-drivetimesportthursday.mp3

[Maguire01]

Anyway as mentioned by Joe the 2 Derry lads definitely did wrong in their incidents but there is strong evidence to show that neither Derry man was the instigator or aggressor of either incident.

Eh? Are you having a laugh? How was Mullan not the agressor in his incident?
Both Mullan and McManus were tangled up in each other - both probably equally to blame in going down (Mullan had his arm around McManus just as much as McManus around him). McManus didn't do anything to instigate a knee, wherever the target.

[screenexile]

Anyway as mentioned by Joe the 2 Derry lads definitely did wrong in their incidents but there is strong evidence to show that neither Derry man was the instigator or aggressor of either incident.

Eh? Are you having a laugh? How was Mullan not the agressor in his incident?
Both Mullan and McManus were tangled up in each other - both probably equally to blame in going down (Mullan had his arm around McManus just as much as McManus around him). McManus didn't do anything to instigate a knee, wherever the target.

Sorry McManus didn't wrestle him to the ground when the ball was gone??? It's plain to see on the video!

I'm not condoning the knee but you can't say there wasn't some provocation before it. I fully accept that he should never have lifted his knee at all. BUt had McManus not pulled him down would it have happened at all??

[Maguire01]

Anyway as mentioned by Joe the 2 Derry lads definitely did wrong in their incidents but there is strong evidence to show that neither Derry man was the instigator or aggressor of either incident.

Eh? Are you having a laugh? How was Mullan not the agressor in his incident?
Both Mullan and McManus were tangled up in each other - both probably equally to blame in going down (Mullan had his arm around McManus just as much as McManus around him). McManus didn't do anything to instigate a knee, wherever the target.

Sorry McManus didn't wrestle him to the ground when the ball was gone??? It's plain to see on the video!

I'm not condoning the knee but you can't say there wasn't some provocation before it. I fully accept that he should never have lifted his knee at all. BUt had McManus not pulled him down would it have happened at all??

Can you post the link again? I thought McManus had his arm around Mullan's body, but that Mullan also had his arm around McManus's head.

[Schkite]

Plain to see Mullen had his arm around his neck. Both sides will argue the point but reality is both had a hold of each other.

Just looking at the kneeing incident again there, not a chance Mullen kneed him in the chest. It is hard to see if he actually hit him bang in the groin but if it wasn't that it was certainly lower abdomen. May not be much different to the chest you may say but it still looks like he connected with the groin area to me. Anyway, fact is he kneed him, should it matter where? Maybe the rules state a minimum 4 week suspension but this was dangerous and deserved the 8 in my opinion.

[bingobus]

Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day 

Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.

I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.

There's a reason for that.

Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times.  As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.

He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.

And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.

I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!

So those qualities are what makes a good player?  Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves.  I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.

I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.

Not qualities of a good player but of a lesser player looking to even the playing field. It happens in the vast majority of games played, one way or other. Dick does go overboard at times and defo gets himself in trouble.

I'd away with your assessment and can understand your bias.

The issue I would have is that Dick Clerkin shouldn't be as big a factor in all of this as Brolly and Co have made him out to be. It was complete character assisnation. Doc made his own decisions on how to act that day and he acted the maggot on more than one occassion. We are all responsible for our actions and should take it on the chin. Brollys defence would appear to be that it was all Dicks fault and the Doc was acting in self defence! He's an experienced intercounty midfield player, he should be laughing at the likes of Clerkin.  

[JMohan]

We're not talking about both teams - We're talking about Tommy Freeman - I said he had been sent of many times for his club and was no angel - you called me out - well back it up then.

Well which is it? Hot air or truth?

You can't bullshit the truth ... has he been sent off many times for Magheracloone or not?

You clearly didn't. But it suits you now to change your story to club football when you've realised his disciplinary record for county.

And you may only be talking about Tommy Freeman, but it hardly makes sense to talk about his disciplinary record outside of the context of other players - you compared his record to "almost any footballer on that county team". Anyway, you still haven't cited any specific examples to support your argument - if there are many, as you claim, you should be able to mention 5 at least.

So you're saying he's a Saint then?
Oh ok then.

Who said that? I definitely didn't. I just said he didn't have the collection of red cards for Monaghan that you suggested.
Are you a bit slow?
You were caught bluffing, end of.

He's a dirty player and the truth is hard to accept isn't it ... 

Relax - he'll be back in a few weeks anyway.

[tbrick18]

Donherty is a fine gael and community man, he was merely removing a fly that had flown into Clerkins eye....Brolly has BBC footage of the fly entering the grounds on the day and that was enough for the GAA who all got to sit on Joes knee as he told a yarn about him back in the day 

Yes and of course St DICK would never act the maggot or play outside of the rules.

I think the point is that no one has been elevanting Dick to saintly status. We're lead to believe that Doherty spends all of his time helping old ladies cross the road and that his encounter with Dick turned him into this unrecognisable person.

There's a reason for that.

Fergal is a hard player. Like many he would play on the edge at times.  As I have stated before, I have seen him play a large amount of games, many of these club games with no neutral linesmen or umpires, where fergal could act the maggot all day long, but I have never seen it.

He's certainly no angel but Clerkin's gameplan obviously worked for him to get Doc sent off.

And whay can't the same be said of Clerkin. He's a workhouse and gets in peoples face, plays on edge etc etc. He plays with a junior club and gets plenty of attention as for years he is all they had. Yet his club record in games with no offical linesmen, umpire etc is very good.

I don't think Clerkins gameplan was to get Doc sent off, it was to disrupt his game and allow him get the better of the game. Dick wasn't involved when he shoulder charged Gary McQuaid into the chest to get the second yellow. He also wasn't involved when he got Red last year and he wasn;t involved in 2001? when we played Beallaghy in a 3 game run in Ulster club and Doc was stuck right in the middle of the row at the dugouts that day. I had a close up view of that!

So those qualities are what makes a good player?  Many a player doesnt need to "get in someone's face" or "disrupt anyone's game" to be a good player themselves.  I think Clerkin is a very tough man, a great player but to me goes overboard on too many occasions.

I'm happy that Doc didn't let him walk over the top of him. Am I happy at the manner at which he did it? Not really no. Obviously both players were to blame, but to me this is not the type of thing Doc would have initiated. Maybe that is a biased assessment but I will leave it at that.

Not qualities of a good player but of a lesser player looking to even the playing field. It happens in the vast majority of games played, one way or other. Dick does go overboard at times and defo gets himself in trouble.

I'd away with your assessment and can understand your bias.

The issue I would have is that Dick Clerkin shouldn't be as big a factor in all of this as Brolly and Co have made him out to be. It was complete character assisnation. Doc made his own decisions on how to act that day and he acted the maggot on more than one occassion. We are all responsible for our actions and should take it on the chin. Brollys defence would appear to be that it was all Dicks fault and the Doc was acting in self defence! He's an experienced intercounty midfield player, he should be laughing at the likes of Clerkin.  

Dry your eyes bingobus! Dick acted the maggot all day and fingers crossed maybe he'll get reprimanded now too based on the new video evidence.
I think in the interests of fairness, natural justice and a level playing field this should be the case.