Poll
Question:
Who will win?
Option 1: Obama
Option 2: McCain
Probably going to be a big story all year - so let's try keeping it to one thread
Iowa caucuses are happening tonight
CNN are reporting Mike Huckabee has won the Republican caucus with 31% of the vote. Trailing him are Milt Romney (23%), Fred Thompson (13%), John McCain (12%) and Rudy Giuliani with 11%.
On the Democratic side, early results show Barack Obama with a narrow lead over rivals Hillary Clinton and John Edwards.
With 69 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 35 percent of voters, compared to 31percent each for Edwards and Clinton.
Just reported on News here that Clinton is in big danger of finishing 3rd (which I'd be happy about)
No big surprise, at least on the Republican side. The three Democrats were all considered to be running very closely, so I suppose the only surprise was going to be which edged through in first. There are 29 more caucuses/primaries over the next month, so its going to be interesting.
I'm not sure which of the Dems I'll go for yet. Possibly Obama, as he'll be less divisive if he wins the nomination. Hillary would be manna from heaven for the right wing and I don't know if she could win the general election. Depends on who the Republican candidate is though.
Obama wins apparently
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 02:46:40 AM
No big surprise, at least on the Republican side. The three Democrats were all considered to be running very closely, so I suppose the only surprise was going to be which edged through in first. There are 29 more caucuses/primaries over the next month, so its going to be interesting.
I'm not sure which of the Dems I'll go for yet. Possibly Obama, as he'll be less divisive if he wins the nomination. Hillary would be manna from heaven for the right wing and I don't know if she could win the general election. Depends on who the Republican candidate is though.
Sweet Jesus, you mean that youse Americans would actually consider voting a republican in AGAIN!!!
According to BBC, Obama wins Democrat nomination, with Clinton and Edward close for second.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on January 04, 2008, 02:51:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 02:46:40 AM
No big surprise, at least on the Republican side. The three Democrats were all considered to be running very closely, so I suppose the only surprise was going to be which edged through in first. There are 29 more caucuses/primaries over the next month, so its going to be interesting.
I'm not sure which of the Dems I'll go for yet. Possibly Obama, as he'll be less divisive if he wins the nomination. Hillary would be manna from heaven for the right wing and I don't know if she could win the general election. Depends on who the Republican candidate is though.
Sweet Jesus, you mean that youse Americans would actually consider voting a republican in AGAIN!!!
I wouldn't personally. There are plenty who will though. "Guns, God and Gays" trumps all else. Why do you think Huckabee has done so well tonight in Iowa? There are a lot of fundamentalists and evangelicals there and all across the US. Throw in illegal immigrants and Hillary, and you'll have a very highly motivated right wing.
so far for the democrats:
Senator Barack Obama : 37.15%
Senator John Edwards : 30.00%
Senator Hillary Clinton : 29.61%
Governor Bill Richardson : 2.14%
Senator Joe Biden : 0.95%
Uncommitted : 0.13%
Senator Chris Dodd : 0.03%
Precincts Reporting: 1640 of 1781
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 02:57:08 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on January 04, 2008, 02:51:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 02:46:40 AM
No big surprise, at least on the Republican side. The three Democrats were all considered to be running very closely, so I suppose the only surprise was going to be which edged through in first. There are 29 more caucuses/primaries over the next month, so its going to be interesting.
I'm not sure which of the Dems I'll go for yet. Possibly Obama, as he'll be less divisive if he wins the nomination. Hillary would be manna from heaven for the right wing and I don't know if she could win the general election. Depends on who the Republican candidate is though.
Sweet Jesus, you mean that youse Americans would actually consider voting a republican in AGAIN!!!
I wouldn't personally. There are plenty who will though. "Guns, God and Gays" trumps all else. Why do you think Huckabee has done so well tonight in Iowa? There are a lot of fundamentalists and evangelicals there and all across the US. Throw in illegal immigrants and Hillary, and you'll have a very highly motivated right wing.
Clarify why these would be be right wing?! P.S. inc. Hillary
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on January 04, 2008, 03:03:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 02:57:08 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on January 04, 2008, 02:51:01 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 02:46:40 AM
No big surprise, at least on the Republican side. The three Democrats were all considered to be running very closely, so I suppose the only surprise was going to be which edged through in first. There are 29 more caucuses/primaries over the next month, so its going to be interesting.
I'm not sure which of the Dems I'll go for yet. Possibly Obama, as he'll be less divisive if he wins the nomination. Hillary would be manna from heaven for the right wing and I don't know if she could win the general election. Depends on who the Republican candidate is though.
Sweet Jesus, you mean that youse Americans would actually consider voting a republican in AGAIN!!!
I wouldn't personally. There are plenty who will though. "Guns, God and Gays" trumps all else. Why do you think Huckabee has done so well tonight in Iowa? There are a lot of fundamentalists and evangelicals there and all across the US. Throw in illegal immigrants and Hillary, and you'll have a very highly motivated right wing.
Clarify why these would be be right wing?! P.S. inc. Hillary
Illegal immigration is a mostly right-wing issue at the moment. Yes, the Democrats talk about dealing with it, but they are more about including amnesties and so on, along the lines of the bill that was defeated last spring (and for which Bush got hammered by his own side). There are far more Republicans and conservatives talking about sealing the borders, deporting people and preventing illegals from accessing public services than Democrats/liberals. Its much less of an issue on the left.
As for Hillary, the American right absolutely despises the Clintons, Hillary even more so than Bill! It would like a red rag to a bull having her run as the Democratic candidate!
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 03:08:55 AM
As for Hillary, the American right absolutely despises the Clintons, Hillary even more so than Bill! It would like a red rag to a bull having her run as the Democratic candidate!
Was listening to some chap on Fox the other night - he said he was convinced that if Hillary gets the nomination than the Republicans would get back in as it would motivate more right wingers to campaign against her
Sorry, I'm I missing something here, surely Hillary would be the best person to get in?????????????
I'm sure Tyrone's Own will be able to provide some perspective on Hillary from the right whenever he logs in. If memory serves, he's a Michael Savage fan!
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on January 04, 2008, 03:18:05 AM
Sorry, I'm I missing something here, surely Hillary would be the best person to get in?????????????
I ask the question again.
Maybe I know where you are coming from. You think the right wing would prefer hillary clinton to a black man? ???
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on January 04, 2008, 03:18:05 AM
Sorry, I'm I missing something here, surely Hillary would be the best person to get in?????????????
She's actually been fairly centrist during her term in the Senate, working well with the Republicans on various issues. I think she's running more to the right than Obama and Edwards as well. In that respect, I would have no problem voting for her.
The issue, in a general election, would be the enormous amount of baggage that she brings, both due to her husband's escapades, and her own past, such as the failed attempt at healthcare reform in Clinton's first term, the various allegations that continually circled about shady dealings on her own part (there are those who believe she had Vince Foster murdered!) and the simple fact that she is demonized on the right as an arch feminist/communist who will stop at nothing and let nothing stand in her way!
The fact that all of these allegations are old may be a plus on her part though.
I'm not sure I understand the question to be honest. Hillary is despised by the right wing and apparently the hatred is such that if she is the candidate than it would motivate more right wingers to vote/campaign against her than would come out against Obama. That's my rather simplistic take it on it anyway.
Personally I wouldn't be comfortbale with the one of the worlds largest democracies voting in Presidents in the order of Bush - Clinton - Bush - Clinton. It's like an alternating Royal family
Quote from: stephenite on January 04, 2008, 03:28:23 AM
I'm not sure I understand the question to be honest. Hillary is despised by the right wing and apparently the hatred is such that if she is the candidate than it would motivate more right wingers to vote/campaign against her than would come out against Obama. That's my rather simplistic take it on it anyway.
Personally I wouldn't be comfortbale with the one of the worlds largest democracies voting in Presidents in the order of Bush - Clinton - Bush - Clinton. It's like an alternating Royal family
Gotta say Hillary isn't Bill, were as GW was his daddy, I hope she gets in, although the US of f**king A will still be despised by the rest of the world for a long time!
Interesting but not overally surprising results tonight. Dont think Huckabee can sustain the momentum from tonight though he doesnt have enough support in the centre nor does he have support from big business, as a result, ironically whether or not he can may well come down to how well Obama and Edwards continue to do on the democratic side. Despite both pushing Clinton into third both will still trail because of the number of super delegates she already has sown up (and the fact that at the minute Florida and Michigan will have only super delegates) If Obama and Edwards fail to continue the momentum or worse still become embroiled in a bitter im the better candidate not called Clinton then the independents in the states that allow it may flock to McCain which will kill Huckabee through Super Duper Tuesday. This will pave the way for a McCain v Clinton election. Of course this could allow Bloomberg to enter as that rare animal in American politics a realistic alternative which would spice things up. However if Obama and or Edwards can keep this momentum going then Huckabee and Guilani could benefit In summation we are no closer tonight to knowing who the election is going to be between. The other useful thing to note is that Obama will always do better in in caucuses than primaries at least until Bill Richardson drops out as there are two stages of voting there and he will pick up richardsons voters in the second round. One thing though is I am certain that the 5er I put on Al Gore to win this time last year will not be returning money for me.
All the news reports today are about how Clinton lost. There is very little mention of anyone else. Even Obama is getting less coverage than Clinton. Are we being told about whom we want to hear about rather than who we should be hearing about? I think the Irish are living in hope of Clinton being a realistic chance and not really listening to what Americans are saying. Many Irish will be disappointed if Clinton doesn't get the nomination and blame the Americans for being stupid and not selecting Clinton when the truth is we really know very little about the other candidates.
Obama is about the only candidate I like. Hilary's not bad either. Havent much time for the Republicans. Havent read so much into it as I'd like, but i guess ill hear plaenty about it.
Here's the latest odds on the next President from Paddy Power;
Hillary Clinton 11 - 8
Barack Obama 2 - 1
Rudolph Giuliani 6 - 1
John McCain 13 - 2
Mitt Romney 10 - 1
Mike Huckabee 11 - 1
John Edwards 20 - 1
Ron Paul 25 - 1
Al Gore 33 - 1
Fred Thompson 40 - 1
Evan Bayh 125 - 1
Bill Richardson 125 - 1
Tom Daschle 125 - 1
Hell will freeze over before the USA elects a black President. They may well elect a woman sooner but it vwon't be Hillary Clinton - too much baggage and unable to appeal to the centre ground.
I reckon the next election will be between Rudolph Giuliani and John Edwards. If it is Edwards will win. If the Democrats select Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama I guess Giuliani
will win.
20-1 Edwards looks like a nice punt.
is he a better bet this time than last time? this time his democratic opponents are both charismatic which certainly wasn't the case last time around and he still lost.
Is Bloomberg entering the race a serious possibility? I don't know a lot about him or what he stands for but from some articles I have read he seems to be a serious politician and would almost be favoured to beat any of the listed candidates - being a cynic and knowing he has a news empire well, I can't help wonder if there is a bit of front running and bias in those articles
I can't see Edwards winning at all. He put a huge amount of effort into Iowa and still finished second. Obama or Clinton will get the Democratic nomination.
When are the next primaries and how long before they are all finished?
I haven't read that much about all the candidates, I suppose I'd like to see Obama get in because of his ethnicity and McCain on the Republican side as I recall he was proposing some sort of amnesty for the undocumented Irish community.
New Hampshire is up next I believe
For the Democrats the following dates are noteworthy
January 3, 2008 Iowa caucus
January 8, 2008 New Hampshire primary
January 15, 2008 Michigan primary
January 19, 2008 Nevada caucus
January 26, 2008 South Carolina primary
January 29, 2008 Florida primary
Whats particularly noteworthy is that at the minute the primaries in Michigan and Florida do not count for the nomination and infact democrats are banned from campaigning in Florida
Then we role into super duper tuesday with the following primaries and caucuses on february 5th
Alabama primary
Alaska caucus
Arizona primary
Arkansas primary
California primary
Colorado caucus
Connecticut primary
Delaware primary
Georgia primary
Idaho caucus
Illinois primary
Kansas caucus
Massachusetts primary
Minnesota caucus
Missouri primary
New Jersey primary
New Mexico caucus
New York primary
North Dakota caucus
Oklahoma primary
Tennessee primary
Utah primary
If the nomination isn't sown up by then we have the final primaries in february and March, with the non states votes in March and finish in South Dakota on I believe June 3rd
Republicans have a slightly different order but I dont have it to hand
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 01:10:38 PM
I can't see Edwards winning at all. He put a huge amount of effort into Iowa and still finished second. Obama or Clinton will get the Democratic nomination.
Clinton put a huge effort in and finished 3rd.
I really believe that the USA will not vote for a black person or a woman. If either of these 2 are nominated the Republicans will win. In the past Democrats have needed states in the South to win the Presidency. No state in the south will vote for Obama or Clinton. They can't get the numbers.
http://www.270towin.com/ (http://www.270towin.com/)
Here's a link to the results. The electoral college is one of the checks and balances built into the constitution and without winning a significant number of votes in the South a Democrat has never won.
Carter swept the South in 1976 to win. Clinton won 7 states in 92 and the same again in 96. Kerry & Gore won nothing in that region in 2000 & 2004 and lost (Florida is another discussion).
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 04, 2008, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 01:10:38 PM
I can't see Edwards winning at all. He put a huge amount of effort into Iowa and still finished second. Obama or Clinton will get the Democratic nomination.
Clinton put a huge effort in and finished 3rd.
Although Clinton cam 3rd in terms of the vote and precients she won she actually game 2nd where it counts most in terms of delegate votes for the nominating convention. Given that she also has a superdelegate from Iowa on board she has at the minute the same number of delegates from Iowa as Obama 2 ahead of Edwards
American Politics confuses me. What are caucus and primarys?
Clinton could win Florida in a Presidential election. Florida is a funny southern state in that South Florida (most heavily populated area) is made up of liberal democrats that moved here from the North East (New York and New England areas). The further north in Florida that you go the more Republican and southern the state becomes. Because Clinton is a New York senator she would get a ton of votes in the South Florida area but I reakon it could be as close as in 2000 as to which party would win the state. She is definatly not popular among conservatives here actually they despise the Clintons. I would like the Democrats to win the next election but I think both Clinton and Obama will not get the male middle of the road democratic votes in the southen states, John Edwards might be the safe bet for democrats.
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 04, 2008, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 01:10:38 PM
I can't see Edwards winning at all. He put a huge amount of effort into Iowa and still finished second. Obama or Clinton will get the Democratic nomination.
Clinton put a huge effort in and finished 3rd.
I really believe that the USA will not vote for a black person or a woman. If either of these 2 are nominated the Republicans will win. In the past Democrats have needed states in the South to win the Presidency. No state in the south will vote for Obama or Clinton. They can't get the numbers.
http://www.270towin.com/ (http://www.270towin.com/)
Here's a link to the results. The electoral college is one of the checks and balances built into the constitution and without winning a significant number of votes in the South a Democrat has never won.
Carter swept the South in 1976 to win. Clinton won 7 states in 92 and the same again in 96. Kerry & Gore won nothing in that region in 2000 & 2004 and lost (Florida is another discussion).
And I'd safely say Britain wasn't ready for a female prime minister in 1979.
People say that in every country.
The US has a female speaker of the house, in line for the presidency if Bush and Cheney were both incapacitated. The last and current secretaries of state are black.
Sure, there will be some who won't vote for an African American or a woman, but I doubt very much if that will be a major factor in the election.
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 04:08:02 PM
The US has a female speaker of the house, in line for the presidency if Bush and Cheney were both incapacitated. The last and current secretaries of state are black.
Sure, there will be some who won't vote for an African American or a woman, but I doubt very much if that will be a major factor in the election.
Will it not be a major factor in mobilising the republican vote? What if the 2 of them are on the ticket? Do they just presume that any state not on the seaboards won't vote for them anyway? I have no idea, but I did think that race and sex would be major factors for a large number of voters, in much the may that gays, guns and god mobilised them last time around.
Quote from: David McKeown on January 04, 2008, 01:56:18 PMdemocrats are banned from campaigning in Florida
Jayz! I knew the Bushes had Florida sewn up, but I didn't realise ...
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 04:08:02 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 04, 2008, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 01:10:38 PM
I can't see Edwards winning at all. He put a huge amount of effort into Iowa and still finished second. Obama or Clinton will get the Democratic nomination.
Clinton put a huge effort in and finished 3rd.
I really believe that the USA will not vote for a black person or a woman. If either of these 2 are nominated the Republicans will win. In the past Democrats have needed states in the South to win the Presidency. No state in the south will vote for Obama or Clinton. They can't get the numbers.
http://www.270towin.com/ (http://www.270towin.com/)
Here's a link to the results. The electoral college is one of the checks and balances built into the constitution and without winning a significant number of votes in the South a Democrat has never won.
Carter swept the South in 1976 to win. Clinton won 7 states in 92 and the same again in 96. Kerry & Gore won nothing in that region in 2000 & 2004 and lost (Florida is another discussion).
And I'd safely say Britain wasn't ready for a female prime minister in 1979.
People say that in every country.
The US has a female speaker of the house, in line for the presidency if Bush and Cheney were both incapacitated. The last and current secretaries of state are black.
Sure, there will be some who won't vote for an African American or a woman, but I doubt very much if that will be a major factor in the election.
Pelosi was not elected by the people to be Speaker and both Colin Powell and Rice were appointed to their positions. If you do not think that race or gender are an issue you have not spent to much time in the southern states, it unfortuate but thats the way things are in the south. I am suprised by the amount of people whom I thought were liberal democrats that will not vote for Obama or Clinton based on their race and gender.
The Democrats should be hoping for Guiliani or Romney to be selected as the Christian right will not get behind them as they have Huckerbee.
Quote from: Hardy on January 04, 2008, 04:38:51 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 04, 2008, 01:56:18 PMdemocrats are banned from campaigning in Florida
Jayz! I knew the Bushes had Florida sewn up, but I didn't realise ...
They moved the primary dates in Florida against the wishes of the Demoratic party so all the Democratic candidates agreed not to campaign in Florida. Stupid move by the Democrats to piss of the Democratic grass roots in a swing state, not suprising if any one could fcuk up a sure thing it is the Democratic party.
I agree with FL/Mayo. This is essentially a direct election of the President where individual Americans to go into a private voting booth and make their choice. Even if the opinion polls had Obama 10 points clear I would still bet against him. Middle America and the South will not vote for an African America as President. I wish I was wrong but I'm convinced I 'm not. We'll see in November.
Clinton simply hasn't a wide enough appeal to get elected.
Quote from: FL/MAYO on January 04, 2008, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 04:08:02 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 04, 2008, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 04, 2008, 01:10:38 PM
I can't see Edwards winning at all. He put a huge amount of effort into Iowa and still finished second. Obama or Clinton will get the Democratic nomination.
Clinton put a huge effort in and finished 3rd.
I really believe that the USA will not vote for a black person or a woman. If either of these 2 are nominated the Republicans will win. In the past Democrats have needed states in the South to win the Presidency. No state in the south will vote for Obama or Clinton. They can't get the numbers.
http://www.270towin.com/ (http://www.270towin.com/)
Here's a link to the results. The electoral college is one of the checks and balances built into the constitution and without winning a significant number of votes in the South a Democrat has never won.
Carter swept the South in 1976 to win. Clinton won 7 states in 92 and the same again in 96. Kerry & Gore won nothing in that region in 2000 & 2004 and lost (Florida is another discussion).
And I'd safely say Britain wasn't ready for a female prime minister in 1979.
People say that in every country.
The US has a female speaker of the house, in line for the presidency if Bush and Cheney were both incapacitated. The last and current secretaries of state are black.
Sure, there will be some who won't vote for an African American or a woman, but I doubt very much if that will be a major factor in the election.
Pelosi was not elected by the people to be Speaker and both Colin Powell and Rice were appointed to their positions. If you do not think that race or gender are an issue you have not spent to much time in the southern states, it unfortuate but thats the way things are in the south. I am suprised by the amount of people whom I thought were liberal democrats that will not vote for Obama or Clinton based on their race and gender.
The Democrats should be hoping for Guiliani or Romney to be selected as the Christian right will not get behind them as they have Huckerbee.
I won't dispute that, but I doubt very much if the Democratic candidate will be relying too much on winning southern states, with the exception of Florida. But that's just my opinion - there are a few people I know who agree with you that those issues might seriously impact Obama or Clinton. I think its overstated. We'll see.
The election will probably come down to the 3 swing states of Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida just like the last two elections.
Still can't understand why Clinton doesn't have broad popular support within the Democratic electorate?
Quote from: David McKeown on January 04, 2008, 01:56:18 PM
For the Democrats the following dates are noteworthy
January 3, 2008 Iowa caucus
January 8, 2008 New Hampshire primary
January 15, 2008 Michigan primary
January 19, 2008 Nevada caucus
January 26, 2008 South Carolina primary
January 29, 2008 Florida primary
Whats particularly noteworthy is that at the minute the primaries in Michigan and Florida do not count for the nomination and infact democrats are banned from campaigning in Florida
Then we role into super duper tuesday with the following primaries and caucuses on february 5th
Alabama primary
Alaska caucus
Arizona primary
Arkansas primary
California primary
Colorado caucus
Connecticut primary
Delaware primary
Georgia primary
Idaho caucus
Illinois primary
Kansas caucus
Massachusetts primary
Minnesota caucus
Missouri primary
New Jersey primary
New Mexico caucus
New York primary
North Dakota caucus
Oklahoma primary
Tennessee primary
Utah primary
If the nomination isn't sown up by then we have the final primaries in february and March, with the non states votes in March and finish in South Dakota on I believe June 3rd
Republicans have a slightly different order but I dont have it to hand
Why is it only these states that has the caucus?
Is there a reason or are they just picked out of a hat?
I believe this election will be very interesting and can't wait to see who the candidates will be...there are a lot of firsts...first woman, first African American, first Mormon, first Italian American. For what it's worth, here's my opinion on the runners who I believe have a chance of winning their respective party nominations.
Dems
Clinton: Despised by the right wing and unfortunately will do more to mobilize the Evangelicals than any of the Republican candidates..even Huckabee...albeit they will be mobilized by hatred...I think she has a great chance of winning the nomination...but have serious doubts that she could pull off a November win...
Obama: Everyone seems to bemoan his lack of experience....I think this is an asset...he hasn't being in Washington long enough to be bought and paid for...He has half a million donators...one in every three hundred americans has donated to his campaign...this is previously unheard of..these aren't maximum donations from special interest groups..but small donations from VOTERS...He is very eloquent, easy to listen to, smart and I think can rope in a lot of independents....the cons....unfortunately I think racism is alive and well in America, no doubt Fox News et al will give the public a daily reminder that his middle name is Hussein and will constantly mispronounce his surname as Osama...he will face dirty tricks, dirty tricks all the way...if he is the candidate there will be pickup skid marks from the trailer parks to the booths on election day...hopefully in this situation the stereotype will be true and most of them won't be able to read...yes i'm a dem...dont' skin me alive for that remark...
Edwards: Won't do it...been on the ticket before...you don't get a second chance to make a first impression..
Repubs
Huckabee: He scares the shit outta me....another Jesus freak legislating from the pulpit....could be worse than Bush...talking about tent revivals in New Hampshire today...God save us....
Romney: Certainly looks Presidential....if he doesn't get the nomination..has a future in Hollywood....but don't touch the hair....I think the Dems could beat him in Nov....terrible debater, who would be creamed by Obama, Hilary or Edwards...but then again look what happened with Bush
McCain: Very conservative..but I think also very honest...can work across party lines (as seen with the failed immigration bill...more about that later)....too old...in his seventies now
Guliani: What can I say...HATE THE BASTARD... I think he has turned a national tragedy into his personal gravy train....America's mayor MY ARSE....he didn't do a goddam thing any other mayor wouldn't have done in the same position....he couldn't even refrain from mentioning 9/11 today after his dismal performance in Iowa (mainly due to the fact he didn't even bother to go there yesterday) " I'm not worried, i was worried on 9/11 a few time...but i'm not worried today....He has placed all his eggs in one basket...Florida...hope he has crashed and burned before then...His kids don't even talk to him (says a lot)...and if i have to watch that fake, plastic, Posh Spice fake smiley wife of his for 4yrs...i'll have a friggin breakdown....
On immigration...I don't believe it will be touched until 2012....no-one Dem or Repub is going to want to be a one term president...and whether we like it or not...legalizing the undocumented is incredibly unpopular with voters....an incumbant isn't going to lose a re-election on immigration....
feel free to rebut...just my humble opinion...
Quote from: Boynegael on January 05, 2008, 04:39:08 AM
I believe this election will be very interesting and can't wait to see who the candidates will be...there are a lot of firsts...first woman, first African American, first Mormon, first Italian American. For what it's worth, here's my opinion on the runners who I believe have a chance of winning their respective party nominations.
Dems
Clinton: Despised by the right wing and unfortunately will do more to mobilize the Evangelicals than any of the Republican candidates..even Huckabee...albeit they will be mobilized by hatred...I think she has a great chance of winning the nomination...but have serious doubts that she could pull off a November win...
Obama: Everyone seems to bemoan his lack of experience....I think this is an asset...he hasn't being in Washington long enough to be bought and paid for...He has half a million donators...one in every three hundred americans has donated to his campaign...this is previously unheard of..these aren't maximum donations from special interest groups..but small donations from VOTERS...He is very eloquent, easy to listen to, smart and I think can rope in a lot of independents....the cons....unfortunately I think racism is alive and well in America, no doubt Fox News et al will give the public a daily reminder that his middle name is Hussein and will constantly mispronounce his surname as Osama...he will face dirty tricks, dirty tricks all the way...if he is the candidate there will be pickup skid marks from the trailer parks to the booths on election day...hopefully in this situation the stereotype will be true and most of them won't be able to read...yes i'm a dem...dont' skin me alive for that remark...
Edwards: Won't do it...been on the ticket before...you don't get a second chance to make a first impression..
Repubs
Huckabee: He scares the shit outta me....another Jesus freak legislating from the pulpit....could be worse than Bush...talking about tent revivals in New Hampshire today...God save us....
Romney: Certainly looks Presidential....if he doesn't get the nomination..has a future in Hollywood....but don't touch the hair....I think the Dems could beat him in Nov....terrible debater, who would be creamed by Obama, Hilary or Edwards...but then again look what happened with Bush
McCain: Very conservative..but I think also very honest...can work across party lines (as seen with the failed immigration bill...more about that later)....too old...in his seventies now
Guliani: What can I say...HATE THE BASTARD... I think he has turned a national tragedy into his personal gravy train....America's mayor MY ARSE....he didn't do a goddam thing any other mayor wouldn't have done in the same position....he couldn't even refrain from mentioning 9/11 today after his dismal performance in Iowa (mainly due to the fact he didn't even bother to go there yesterday) " I'm not worried, i was worried on 9/11 a few time...but i'm not worried today....He has placed all his eggs in one basket...Florida...hope he has crashed and burned before then...His kids don't even talk to him (says a lot)...and if i have to watch that fake, plastic, Posh Spice fake smiley wife of his for 4yrs...i'll have a friggin breakdown....
On immigration...I don't believe it will be touched until 2012....no-one Dem or Repub is going to want to be a one term president...and whether we like it or not...legalizing the undocumented is incredibly unpopular with voters....an incumbant isn't going to lose a re-election on immigration....
feel free to rebut...just my humble opinion...
Jaysus, even if i had the time i can't say I'd differ a lot from the above, fair play to you Boynegael
you're bang on the money at this point!............ imo of course
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on January 05, 2008, 01:58:37 AM
Still can't understand why Clinton doesn't have broad popular support within the Democratic electorate?
Why? Serioulsy, what can't you understand?
It's not that hard - they're afraid that Hillary as the candidate will ensure a Republican back in the White House.
Quote from: stephenite on January 05, 2008, 05:55:29 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on January 05, 2008, 01:58:37 AM
Still can't understand why Clinton doesn't have broad popular support within the Democratic electorate?
Why? Serioulsy, what can't you understand?
It's not that hard - they're afraid that Hillary as the candidate will ensure a Republican back in the White House.
SSSSHH Stepenite :D
Suddenly everyone's making sense around here ;)
I think RUDI will win the election
Quote from: turk on January 05, 2008, 11:05:50 AM
I think RUDI will win the election
Rudi? Rudi? Rudi? Rudi?
Do ya? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya?
I still fancy bloomberg in this race. He will only step in if he thinks he can win however. There is a very strong sentiment in the US right now that the 2 party system is not working, Bloomberg's angle if he runs will be inclusivity. He is likely to run if you get very polarising nominations. Huckabee for example would be seen as very polarising, right wing old school, big noise on tax, evangelical preacher. Obama, clinton and edwards would most likely fall under the same old democratic stereotypes.
What's interesting however is the obama story. With the analysis of the iowa results obama is getting a lot of attention from independents, the young, the rich, the black, and the female. Here's the problem you can get enough of those voters motivated to go out and swing a caucus or a primary, but can you get them out to win an election. My concern about his campaign is that when it comes to the crunch I believe that should obama get the nomination every right wing racist and hill billy in the country will get out and vote to stop a black president. Same goes for a woman, and for bloomberg the big question is would him being jewish cause the same reaction?
One thing that bloomberg has in his favour is money and track record. He is the most popular mayor in new york in decades, he has $15 billion in personal assets, of which it is believed he would spend $1bn on the campaign. That means he needs no oil money, no weapons money, no drug money etc. That brings a huge amount of credibility and makes this one of the most interesting campaigns since jfk got in. Watch this space...
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 05, 2008, 03:04:04 AM
Why is it only these states that has the caucus?
Is there a reason or are they just picked out of a hat?
Quote from: ziggysego on January 04, 2008, 02:36:25 PM
American Politics confuses me. What are caucus and primarys?
best political show in town, the link below explains the system in as far as it can be explained
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/politicalsystem/a/delegateprocess.htm
the iowa caucus is bolix imo as independents and republicans can vote in the democratic caucus and independents and democrats can vote in the republican caucus (can only vote in one tho). in this case the big news is obama/clinton and the republicans dislike of clinton is such that a lot of them would have voted in the democratic caucus to keep her out. the south carolina primary is known as the one that 'corrects' the iowa and new hampshire votes and gets the candidates in line... one way or the other for news junkies its all great stuff
Does it not just come down to who big business and the arms industry want in? It is very early days.
Quote from: ziggysego on January 04, 2008, 02:36:25 PM
American Politics confuses me. What are caucus and primarys?
Anyone care the shed some light on it for me?
look 2 posts up ziggy ;) its all there...
I feel stupid now, thanks magic ;)
Quote from: magickingdom on January 05, 2008, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 05, 2008, 03:04:04 AM
Why is it only these states that has the caucus?
Is there a reason or are they just picked out of a hat?
Quote from: ziggysego on January 04, 2008, 02:36:25 PM
American Politics confuses me. What are caucus and primarys?
best political show in town, the link below explains the system in as far as it can be explained
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/politicalsystem/a/delegateprocess.htm
the iowa caucus is bolix imo as independents and republicans can vote in the democratic caucus and independents and democrats can vote in the republican caucus (can only vote in one tho). in this case the big news is obama/clinton and the republicans dislike of clinton is such that a lot of them would have voted in the democratic caucus to keep her out. the south carolina primary is known as the one that 'corrects' the iowa and new hampshire votes and gets the candidates in line... one way or the other for news junkies its all great stuff
I've heard quite a few Republicans talking about backing Hillary because they think they have a better chance against her in the general election given the high negative sentiment against her.
the stress is getting to Hillary by all accounts
McCain and Obama out to a very early lead in NH so far today
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2008, 04:22:29 PM
the stress is getting to Hillary by all accounts
McCain and Obama out to a very early lead in NH so far today
Aye heard her on the news this morning, was getting quite weepy - can't be having hormonally challenged women in charge of the button now could we!! ;)
That might have been the Adi Roche moment OK.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 08, 2008, 04:22:29 PM
the stress is getting to Hillary by all accounts
McCain and Obama out to a very early lead in NH so far today
Could either be one hell of a ploy - or the end of the line for hilary. The soundbytes all over the tv yesterday - Hillary Breaks down. :o
New Hampshire tonight, Obama again? Looking like it!
Any exit polls or the like?
Record turnout! Polls close at 8. Watching this hateful so and so Lou Dobbs >:( He seems to want Bloomberg to run which may well happen.
It will be a diificukt case to get bloomberg to run if obama gets the nomination, obama seems to have started to use inclusive and bipartisan a lot in the last 2 weeks, very likely to stave off a bloomberg run. Its getting interesting all the same
early results Clinton and Mc Cain ahead!
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 09, 2008, 12:46:12 AM
early results Clinton and Mc Cain ahead!
They must be very early. Clinton insiders have said that if she finishes within 8 points of Obama it will be a moral victory for her!
Apparently there are major shake-ups in her campaign management on the way as well.
Mc Cain projected to win
Clinton still leading with 40%
Still only 20% of votes in :-\
If the rednecks I was listening to today have anything to do with it - there will never be a woman president - and there sure as hell wont ever be a "nigger president".
This country is going to hell in a handbasket on a rocketship.
AP are calling it for Hillary :-\
Interesting early call by AP I'd wait on the college towns first. Was hoping ron paul could beat rudy the dick, close but no cigar. Surely thompson, kucinich and grabel should chuck in the towel now? (And rudy with any luck)
66% counted according to this article - I'd have thought that was about the right time to call it but no one else appears to have done so -
The Associated Press have named Hillary Clinton the surprise victor over her rival Barack Obama in the crucial New Hampshire Democratic presidential nomination contest.
With 66 per cent of the vote counted, Hillary Clinton is leading the Democratic race with 39 per cent to Barack Obama's 36 per cent.
Clinton, a New York senator, is under intense pressure to revive her campaign after a disappointing showing in Iowa.
Senator John Edwards will finish in distant third place with around 17 per cent of the vote. New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson finished in fourth place with 5 per cent.
In the Republican primary, US Senator John McCain has beaten former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney 28 per cent, repeating history by upsetting the favourite to win New Hampshire presidential primary.
The Democratic results contradict the Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby poll released today, which showed Barack Obama leading the Democratic vote 42 per cent to Hillary Clinton's 29 per cent.
Commentators had all but written off the former first lady's campaign, up until results starting flowing in a few short hours ago.
Obama, an Illinois senator aiming to be the first black president, is looking for a New Hampshire win that would solidify his hold on the top spot in the campaign to be the Democratic candidate in November and deal a second consecutive humiliating loss to Clinton, the former front-runner.
There are reports of a record 500,000 voter turnout at polling stations across the state, aided by the unseasonably balmy weather.
New Hampshire's primary is the second high-profile battleground, following Iowa, in the state-by-state process of choosing Republican and Democratic candidates for November's election to succeed President George Bush.
The candidates made a late drive for support, visiting voting stations and holding rallies.
"The American people have decided for the first time in a very long time it is time for change in America,'' Obama told a crowd at Dartmouth College.
Huckabee and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani ran into each other at a Manchester polling site, with Huckabee jokingly asking for his support before they wished each other well, a Giuliani aide said.
Clinton greeted a handful of supporters at a Manchester polling place before dawn and made similar visits in Nashua, Derry and Concord.
Asked if she needed to win New Hampshire, she referred to the "Super Tuesday'' round of 22 nominating contests.
"I think the nominating process ends at midnight on February 5,'' she said.
"I look forward to campaigning across the country.''
Her husband, former President Bill Clinton, said Obama had gotten a free pass from the media on his claims to have consistently opposed the Iraq war.
"Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen," Clinton said.
Obama shrugged off the remarks, telling reporters he had been "knocked around'' by the press last summer when he trailed Hillary Clinton by 20 points in polls "and I didn't hear the Clinton campaign complaining about how terrible the press was.''
"I understand they are frustrated right now," Obama said of the Clintons
68% in and cnn have followed suit and appointed clinton the winner.
A huge percentage of the female vote and the majority of the 30+ age group went her way. Obama should in SC though its starting to get interesting now. Opinion polls yesterday had obama with a 13% lead, oops...
Jesus, By November I'm going to be tullyeyed....this is great stuff...I love politics....I love democracy...I love voting....Still don't know who I'm going to vote for in the NY primary......I keep going back and forth....When you listen to Obama ( his speech writers better be on six figures) he delivers so well......Hillary not so good...
I really don't think the tearful moment yesterday had as much effect as Bill's "fairytale" remark, on her comeback in NH......although all the pundits are saying it was the woman vote that turned it...
Obama has to have more than words, and I think People are starting to think the same.....
I'm not really worried about any of the Republican candidates....I actually really like McCain as a man...not as a politician....and I hope he wins the Republican nomination.
My biggest concern, as Heganboy stated earlier is a Bloomberg entry to the race...I truly believe he will split the Democratic vote...he was a Dem all his life until he ran for mayor of NY...then became a Republican...Now an Independent... He was never excepted by the Republicans, he got a very lukewarm reception at the last Republican National Convention in NY....he will def take more votes from the Dems than the Repubs....and that will mean only one thing...A REPUB IN THE WHITE HOUSE AGAIN...
keep it coming....I'm hooked...
never accepted by the Repubs... :o
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 04, 2008, 05:29:08 PM
I agree with FL/Mayo. This is essentially a direct election of the President where individual Americans to go into a private voting booth and make their choice. Even if the opinion polls had Obama 10 points clear I would still bet against him. Middle America and the South will not vote for an African America as President. I wish I was wrong but I'm convinced I 'm not. We'll see in November.
A bit of a prophet there Lecale - he was 13 pts ahead in the opinion polls and still didn't win!
I see Paddy Powers had already paid out on Obama yesterday! :o
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/industries/media/article/obama-costs-irish-bookie-75000_425252_15.html (http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/industries/media/article/obama-costs-irish-bookie-75000_425252_15.html)
Current Odds
Clinton - 8/15
Obama - 11/8
What a difference a day makes.....
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 09, 2008, 12:16:08 AM
Record turnout! Polls close at 8. Watching this hateful so and so Lou Dobbs >:( He seems to want Bloomberg to run which may well happen.
why do you think that carmen? watched him on cnn the last few days and thought he was very good, refused to rule hillary out when most had her dead. got up at 7am this morning to check the results! i love politics! delighted that clinton won its going to be a fascinating few weeks. obama sure gives a good speech imo...
Quote from: magickingdom on January 09, 2008, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 09, 2008, 12:16:08 AM
Record turnout! Polls close at 8. Watching this hateful so and so Lou Dobbs >:( He seems to want Bloomberg to run which may well happen.
why do you think that carmen? watched him on cnn the last few days and thought he was very good, refused to rule hillary out when most had her dead. got up at 7am this morning to check the results! i love politics! delighted that clinton won its going to be a fascinating few weeks. obama sure gives a good speech imo...
Illegal immigration is Dobbs' pet issue.
I have no idea if that is part of Carmen Stateside's issue with him.
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2008, 07:54:25 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 09, 2008, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 09, 2008, 12:16:08 AM
Record turnout! Polls close at 8. Watching this hateful so and so Lou Dobbs >:( He seems to want Bloomberg to run which may well happen.
why do you think that carmen? watched him on cnn the last few days and thought he was very good, refused to rule hillary out when most had her dead. got up at 7am this morning to check the results! i love politics! delighted that clinton won its going to be a fascinating few weeks. obama sure gives a good speech imo...
Illegal immigration is Dobbs' pet issue.
I have no idea if that is part of Carmen Stateside's issue with him.
didnt know that j70 and that might explain it, just got cnn lately here. btw cnn in europe need to get their act together, they spend 80% of their time doing any news but US news. the best US election coverage is on sky..
Didn
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2008, 07:54:25 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 09, 2008, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on January 09, 2008, 12:16:08 AM
Record turnout! Polls close at 8. Watching this hateful so and so Lou Dobbs >:( He seems to want Bloomberg to run which may well happen.
why do you think that carmen? watched him on cnn the last few days and thought he was very good, refused to rule hillary out when most had her dead. got up at 7am this morning to check the results! i love politics! delighted that clinton won its going to be a fascinating few weeks. obama sure gives a good speech imo...
Illegal immigration is Dobbs' pet issue.
I have no idea if that is part of Carmen Stateside's issue with him.
Didnt think it would have been that hard to guess! This last few weeks his show has been concentrated mostly on the election, but he still gets his 5 mins in on immigration. He seems to think that his opinion is always the right one and that anyone else thinking different are total fools! Arrogant twat >:(
Dobbs is an odd cat, right wing on immigration, donor to bush cheney, yet pro choice, pro gay rights, anti 2 party system. If bloomberg ran on a bipartisan ticket lou dobbs would be his loudest cheerleader
Quote from: heganboy on January 09, 2008, 10:42:09 PM
Dobbs is an odd cat, right wing on immigration, donor to bush cheney, yet pro choice, pro gay rights, anti 2 party system. If bloomberg ran on a bipartisan ticket lou dobbs would be his loudest cheerleader
Without doubt, he has mentioned him several times this last few weeks as the best choice! Seen somewhere that he had a big fallout with his bosses over his lack of airtime during the election program, which he refused to take part in!
How did the polls get it so wrong - politics.ie are running this thread but not too much substance behind it to be honest, is there any stories regarding voter fraud circulating in the American press?
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=30217 (http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=30217)
Quote from: stephenite on January 10, 2008, 12:19:19 AM
How did the polls get it so wrong - politics.ie are running this thread but not too much substance behind it to be honest, is there any stories regarding voter fraud circulating in the American press?
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=30217 (http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=30217)
Heard one pollster on last night saying they expected turnout similar to 2004 levels when in fact it increased significantly. Not sure how this impacted on their assessment of the relative strengths of the Clinton and Obama votes mind you.
I don't think the rigged voting machines theory stands up when you look at two things:
1. The exit polls were pretty much spot-on. They gave Clinton 38.7% and Obama36.6%. The result was 39.0% to 36.4%.
2. The overall figures show that Clinton got about 40% of machine-counted votes and 34.7% of hand-counted votes and that this apparent discrepancy was largely at the expense of Obama, whose figures were 35.8% machine and 38.8% hand. This would seem to suggest that the machines had been rigged in favour of Clinton. However, when the machine vs. hand results are broken down (here*) by town size, we see a different picture. In small and medium-sized towns, Clinton is favoured by machine results and Obama disadvantaged, by roughly similar percentages as in the overall figures. However, in large towns, the opposite is the case: Clinton scores 40.2% by machine, but 44.2% by hand, while Obama scores 36.1% by machine and 31.6% by hand. If they were rigging the machines, they screwed it up in the large towns (accounting for 64% of the electorate).
* http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=DEMOCRATS
It looks more like evidence of the inaccuracy of the Diebold machines than a vote rigging conspiracy. However, coming across this** in my prowling around Stephenite's link was amazing. I had never seen it before and it would make you happy that Martin Cullen's machines will never see the light of day again.
** http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=30217 (the YouTube clip in the first post).
Quotet looks more like evidence of the inaccuracy of the Diebold machines than a vote rigging conspiracy. However, coming across this** in my prowling around Stephenite's link was amazing. I had never seen it before and it would make you happy that Martin Cullen's machines will never see the light of day again.
Frightening stuff alright. Have to admit the US election stuff is gripping and this letter in todays times is pretty much my thinking as well
Madam, - I note with interest that the US primary campaigns have ignited much excitement even among our own citizenry.
However, it continues to astound me that the vast majority of our populace favour the return of a Democrat to the Oval Office, even though many of the prevailing majority positions held in this country would appear to fit more naturally with those espoused by the Republican Party.
Admittedly, the calamitous failings of the Bush administration, perhaps coupled with a blarney-tinted remembrance of the presidencies of Kennedy and Clinton, have contributed to this. Nevertheless, on many key issues such as abortion, gay rights, fiscal policy, church involvement in education and the increasing role of private-sector enterprise in public services such as healthcare, the opinions of the Irish electorate appear to be more in concord with US Republican voters, who are so often categorised by many in this country as an unsophisticated assemblage.
As a steadfast social liberal I can only hope that our nation's affection for the Democratic Party may translate into a loosening of the conservative grip which continues to ensnare our own country. - Yours, etc,
The point is, though, that characterising the Democrat/Republican divergence as a left/right split is a bit like arguing over whether Bob Dylan or Neil Young is the better opera singer. In creating political systems where the main divide is between two essentially right-leaning parties (for want of a better description), both ourselves and the US are rare enough in largely sparing ourselves the more extreme lunacies of leftists, Marxists, socialists, or call-them-what-you-will in power. (Ruairi Quinn nothwithstanding ;D).
Quoteboth ourselves and the US are rare enough in largely sparing ourselves the more extreme lunacies of leftists, Marxists, socialists, or call-them-what-you-will in power
Yes Hardy, but, at the same time, is Joe Higgins not very,very sorely missed (by all not in Government) in the Dáil?
Billy - I presume you're referring to his witty contributions, rather than his, er, policies. I think Joe is a bit over-lionised in the media, to be honest. He came out with the odd good one OK, but you have to say he hadn't much opposition. When you stand beside a pygmy, you look very tall indeed.
I think most people in Ireland would favour a change of party in the White House, largely because of foreign policy. Whatever about the historical pull of Democrats on the Irish psyche, I think the general antipathy towards the GOP is based on the whole image of the Republicans being completely OTT in their in-your-face Americanism, their Hawkish tendencies towards the Middle East, and the perception that they are totally in hock to Big Business and corporate America and therefore unable/unwilling to take them on on things like the Environment.
Most Irish people I know wouldn't be that pushed about internal US politics and policies on gay rights, healthcare etc. What worries them is the interaction the US has with the rest of the world, and because of it's huge power, it's huge power to do the wrong thing.
QuoteI presume you're referring to his witty contributions, rather than his, er, policies.
True, I'd be no Trotskyist, and no fan of the Irish Trade Union 'movement', but I have to say I enjoyed Higgin's talent for spotting (and highlighting) cosy and hypocritical standards in Irish politics and Irish life. As you say Hardy, it mightn't have been such a huge talent, but it's not there at all any more.
Quotemore extreme lunacies of leftists, Marxists, socialists, or call-them-what-you-will in power.
Wide ranging scatter gun there Hardy but by "sparing ourselves" from them we've landed ourselves with a shower of muppets. Now whether they did more or less damage than the alternative is another debate entirely. A bit like Christianity I suppose in that it s never been tried!!
As BB said Higgins did raise some genuine concerns and then one of govts response was to call turkish workers "kebabs" etc. I think he's missed from the Dail
AZ agree with you on the concerns re the foreign policy stuff alright but I'm a bit of a political junkie and the internal stuff is fascinating as well. I think the fact that both Dems and GOP are basically just serving the same group of corporate paymasters leaves it open for a "third" way to coin a phrase and I still can't understand why that hasn't happened.
Anyway Neil Young is a better soprano than Dylan. ;)
QuoteI'm a bit of a political junkie and the internal stuff is fascinating as well.
To a political 'junkie' or observer there is definitely a whole other facet, i.e. the internal politics, and in fact it should interest us because of the huge influence the American economy, consumer confidence, inflation etc has on our own day to day lives. Also the immigration issue and rights for the illegal Irish However, to most people, the US elections are whether another 'lunatic' Republican gets in and blows us all up is the more pressing consideration.
To be honest, I'm only getting into the race now, because I find the whole process very long, a bit like the MLB season really. The election itself in November will be compulsive viewing, but I haven't really been paying attention to policies, etc.
So far, in my limited viewing, it appears the Republican race is being run by about 8 lads who are all determined to be 'not Bush', but at the same time refuse to disagree with foreign policy, whereas the Democrats seem to be a bit like Fine Gael in our last election. They are all for 'change' (whatever that may be), but it's like trying to nail Jelly to a wall to get them to say what exactly they would change, and how.
In this day and age, with Internet and what have you, and a growing rump of malcontents (attrib- D.Farrell) in America, it would seem that the time is getting closer for an independent politician, with more centrist views, would have a good chance of causing an upset. Maybe Bloomberg would be that man?
Should make for an interesting few months though.
If change was all it's cracked up to be, they'd have banned it years ago. ::)
Obama made a very great speech in New Hampshire after his second place finish on Tuesday night. After watching Bush for the last 8 years it was refreshing to see a U.S politician finally makeing an enthusiastic speech.
The fact that he is staying away from the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will make him more appealling to white voters. If he can keep the primaries or the election from becoming a white/black thing then he stands a better chance than I had previously thought.
I got this email from a Jew, urging me to pass it on. I wont, but I'd just like to peoples opinions on this kind of character attack. Is it accurate or not?
Quote
Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHEIST from Wichita, Kansas.
Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia. When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia. Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school.
Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school." Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that that he is not a radical. Obama's Introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education. Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States,Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background.
ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran. Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches. Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy.
The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!!!! Please forward to everyone you know. Would you want this man leading our country?
Thought Ciaran was a bit brave here :o
http://irishvoices.blogspot.com/ (http://irishvoices.blogspot.com/)
Quote from: Orior on January 10, 2008, 08:45:11 PM
I got this email from a Jew, urging me to pass it on. I wont, but I'd just like to peoples opinions on this kind of character attack. Is it accurate or not?
Quote
Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHEIST from Wichita, Kansas.
Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia. When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia. Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school.
Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school." Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that that he is not a radical. Obama's Introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education. Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States,Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background.
ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran. Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches. Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy.
The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!!!! Please forward to everyone you know. Would you want this man leading our country?
obama better get used to that sh.t. i'm a big hillary fan but i will say if obama were to be elected (not a hope imo) i wonder would he finally stand up to the 'israeli lobby' (cant say jewish lobby anymore or ruairi quinn will have me down as a nazi). bugs the fcuk out of me that the US stands by anything israel does..
Was a good line in the Irish Times a few days ago. Said that the gutter attacks on Obama will reach a crescendo with somebody making a "slip of the tongue" and calling him Osama not Obama.
Fox news have already made that "mistake"
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on January 10, 2008, 10:26:20 PM
Was a good line in the Irish Times a few days ago. Said that the gutter attacks on Obama will reach a crescendo with somebody making a "slip of the tongue" and calling him Osama not Obama.
That's been going on for more than a year. Curtis Sliwa, an NYC radio host and founder of a neighbourhood crime-watch group called the Guardian Angels refers to him as "Barak Obama, rhymes with Osama"! This is on WABC, the main NYC news/talk radio station, where he did the morning drive-time show until last month, and on NY1, the 24-hour local tv news station.
Quote from: magickingdom on January 10, 2008, 10:17:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 10, 2008, 08:45:11 PM
I got this email from a Jew, urging me to pass it on. I wont, but I'd just like to peoples opinions on this kind of character attack. Is it accurate or not?
Quote
Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHEIST from Wichita, Kansas.
Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia. When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia. Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school.
Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school." Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that that he is not a radical. Obama's Introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education. Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States,Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background.
ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran. Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches. Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy.
The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!!!! Please forward to everyone you know. Would you want this man leading our country?
obama better get used to that sh.t. i'm a big hillary fan but i will say if obama were to be elected (not a hope imo) i wonder would he finally stand up to the 'israeli lobby' (cant say jewish lobby anymore or ruairi quinn will have me down as a nazi). bugs the fcuk out of me that the US stands by anything israel does..
That sounds a bit like the crap that Bush's supporters (possibly originating with Karl Rove) came out with in South Carolina in 2000, starting an anonymous whispering campaign about John McCain, saying that he'd fathered an illegitimate black child.
Quote from: Orior on January 10, 2008, 08:45:11 PM
I got this email from a Jew, urging me to pass it on. I wont, but I'd just like to peoples opinions on this kind of character attack. Is it accurate or not?
...
It is complete bullshit and is debunked quite well at Snopes. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
Unfortunately it will get passed around and believed by a lot of stupid Americans.
Hillary Wins the Nevada democratic Caucus with 51% of the vote.
I want Obama to wint he democratic nomination, I want anyone to win before Clinton because I see her as the Thatcher of the . She has a past as sordid as her husbands and I cant stand the sight of her.
Obama is easily the most personable and enthuasistic candidate of them all however he has flown up through the ranks and is seen as politically naive and too inexperienced to become president. I think he would be a breath of fresh air and I would vote for him against any republician except McCain.
I can't believe I just said that. :-[
McCain is looking good on the Republican side. It shows the lack of real talent coming through.
Quote from: stew on January 20, 2008, 06:47:32 PM
I want Obama to wint he democratic nomination, I want anyone to win before Clinton because I see her as the Thatcher of the . She has a past as sordid as her husbands and I cant stand the sight of her.
Obama is easily the most personable and enthuasistic candidate of them all however he has flown up through the ranks and is seen as politically naive and too inexperienced to become president. I think he would be a breath of fresh air and I would vote for him against any republician except McCain.
I can't believe I just said that. :-[
I remember reading somewhere that Clinton may have been one of the sleaziest president in US history but also one of the best, does it really matter what he did in his private life if he was doing his job efficientley?
I remember reading somewhere that Clinton may have been one of the sleaziest president in US history but also one of the best, does it really matter what he did in his private life if he was doing his job efficientley?
[/quote]
Of course it matters what he did in his private life....because he did it in the Oval Office...which is public property, I am a diehard Dem and as great a president (in my opinion) as Bill Clinton was....both he and Hillary did a lot of damage to the credibility of the Democratic Party....Great President....Very flawed Man...He used the Oval Office as a whore house...Now I think the only one who has to forgive his infidelities is his wife....but the whole country has to either forgive or forget where he committed them......I don't think they will, because you will be constantly reminded of it if Hil gets the nomination...
Obama wins South Carolina
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/south_carolina_primary
The reason Republicans love Dems (perversely)...it's the same way the DUP loves Catholics (perversely)...(or otherwise. votes they have to really work for) they will always be assured that the the laundry will be aired in public/split the vote/ or otherwise f**k UP..... Jesus Christ ( and forgive me for taking our Lord's name in vain) but can they agree on anything.... Dem's are already splitting the vote along racial/sexual/historic/gender lines.....give me two cats in an alley and place a bet....The Repubs have to be laughing right now...Give the Dem's a no lose situation...AND THEY WILL LOSE...
I actually thought this election would be easy...because the Republican Party already ripped John Mc Cain to shreds in 2002 (a la Karl Rove...I thought there wasn't much more dirt to throw).. I really didn't think McCain would get the nomination (I believe he will now) and he is the only person as a self proclaimed DIEHARD DEM I would actually vote for right now. I personally am honest to a fault....I was reared on the Kennedy's, Dem, Sinn Fein.....but I respect honesty more that any other quality...The man is 71 ( he has 1 1/2 feet in the grave...you know what...I'm wavering...and i never thought I'd ever say that..
Quote from: Boynegael on January 21, 2008, 03:59:44 AM
I remember reading somewhere that Clinton may have been one of the sleaziest president in US history but also one of the best, does it really matter what he did in his private life if he was doing his job efficientley?
saw one of the best quotes of the campaign so far by mitt romney "the idea of bill clinton back in the white house with nothing to do is something i cant imagine"
still hope hillary wins tho!....
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2008, 09:16:53 PM
Quote from: Boynegael on January 21, 2008, 03:59:44 AM
I remember reading somewhere that Clinton may have been one of the sleaziest president in US history but also one of the best, does it really matter what he did in his private life if he was doing his job efficientley?
saw one of the best quotes of the campaign so far by mitt romney "the idea of bill clinton back in the white house with nothing to dois something i cant imagine"
still hope hillary wins tho!....
I hope she finishes dead last, she is an absolute disaster.
what exacttly do you dislike about her stew? health care for all?
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2008, 10:14:57 PM
what exacttly do you dislike about her stew? health care for all?
She's a Democrat, stew doesn't like the Democrats.
Quote from: dec on January 28, 2008, 01:52:08 AM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2008, 10:14:57 PM
what exacttly do you dislike about her stew? health care for all?
She's a Democrat, stew doesn't like the Democrats.
To be fair, there's a lot to dislike about the Democrats. They are by far the lesser of the two evils though!
Obama vs McCain with a Bloomberg thrown in the ring to muddle it up? could yet be an interesting race
Surely Edwards must soon drop out of the democratic race, and I will be pleased to see the final nail going into Giuliani's coffin.
Obama still isn't close to being clear of Clinton yet though there's a few more weeks before we se how that goes..
I think McCain has the Republican nomination in the bag.
obama won the kennedy primary! wonder will that get him over the hump on super tuesday..
No doubt about it the Camelot clan were fantastic trailblazers in the US and gave irish people a real sense of being in the 60's when times were particularly toough over here. JFK & Bobby to a lesser extent gave Irish people great pride and their achievements still resonate today.
But (time for rant now) I am no fan of Ted Kennedy, he is forever claiming to represent the moral majority in the USA and thinks he has the divine right to express an opinion on any subject under the sun. Can our american posters give us an idea of the press he gets across the pond? is it a 'lynching' offence to publicly slag him off because of his surname?
I am no saint but for me someone who was involved in the death of a young lady and did his best to cover it up deserves no public platform regardless of his connections.
I don't think a conservative piece on Kennedy ever passes without a mention of Chappaquidick!
QuoteI hope she finishes dead last, she is an absolute disaster.
Think if theres gonna be a Democratic President she needs to win cause I reckon the Republicans will take Obama apart. Style over substance it seems to me - being a media darling will only take him to the Democratic nomination no further.
Quote from: heganboy on January 28, 2008, 04:17:35 AM
and I will be pleased to see the final nail going into Giuliani's coffin.
Being prepared as we speak.
Florida primaries:
GOP - 29% reporting
McCain 34
Romney 33
Guiliani 15
Huckabee 14
Dems - Clinton the winner.
McCain won the GOP race, and looks set for the nomination now. 36-32 or something like that. Guiliani trailed in third, may well throw the hat at it.
the story going around is that Rudy will announce tomorrow he's quitting and throw his support behind McCain with an eye on VP
I see Edwards has withdrawn from the Dem race.
Guiliani confirmed as out - Good riddance
Quote from: saffron on January 29, 2008, 08:55:03 PM
QuoteI hope she finishes dead last, she is an absolute disaster.
Think if theres gonna be a Democratic President she needs to win cause I reckon the Republicans will take Obama apart. Style over substance it seems to me - being a media darling will only take him to the Democratic nomination no further.
And the Republicans won't take Hillary apart?! She's perhaps the most loathed Democrat other than her husband! Obama has the intelligence, charisma and ability to attract independents and undecided Republicans, of whom there will be many, particularly if McCain gets the nod, which is looking likely as he will be carrying the most momentum into Super Tuesday. Whateer about Giuliani's disaster, his voice will still carry a lot of weight for whomever he decides to back, again likely to be McCain.
Almost Super Chooseday - anyone prepared to call a front runner come Wed nite? I think Obama might just about have the momentum he needs, but it's on a knife edge from what I can tell, our US based cousins might be able to tell us more
Republicans - McCain will have it sown up. and hopefully goes all the way then.
Democrats - Clinton probably, but it seems that the polls suggest little to choose between them.
It'll all be unfolding by this time tomorrow in any case.
most of the polls show clinton just shading it in the dems but the Obama camp has been making great strides in the last week or so( the kennedy endorsement has generated a massive PR coverage). I think by wednesday you'll see Obama may just have a couple of percent advantage, but this will go right to the wire which means 3-4 more months of this carry on.
Mc Cain looks like he's going to do the job, but Id say its far from as clear cut as the polls are making it. Romney could take California, and a few others besides. He's pitching himself as conservative and as being a better man for the economy, in a lot of the southern states thats what they're looking for. Huckabee's presence may however draw votes away from Romney allowing McCain an easier run.
It really could come down to the super delegates this year for the democrats, although Michigan and Florida may have something to say about that. If it does Hillary I believe is currently well ahead going by the number of super delegates that have declared.
Anywhere online to watch exit polls etc?
How is Arnie getting on?
Arnie? Is there an election for Governer in California as well?
Quote from: cavan4ever on February 05, 2008, 10:35:43 AM
How is Arnie getting on?
:D
Arnie gets on twice a week, on tuesdays and thursdays.
arnie and his missus have endorsed Obama
McCain for President, if it has to be a democrat I hope obama gets the nod, the most articulate and intelligent of all the candidates and if clinton gets it i will be moving back home, the thought of four years and possibly eight years being led by thon would be enough to make me bail out and head back to Armagh. :'(
Quote from: heganboy on February 05, 2008, 04:20:22 PM
arnie and his missus have endorsed Obama
Eh Arnie didnt, his wife did though. Arnie is a republician.
Quote from: stew on February 05, 2008, 04:20:27 PM
McCain for President, if it has to be a democrat I hope obama gets the nod, the most articulate and intelligent of all the candidates and if clinton gets it i will be moving back home, the thought of four years and possibly eight years being led by thon would be enough to make me bail out and head back to Armagh. :'(
Where you'd be led by Paisley and McGuinness :D
Of course you could come down south and be led by Bertie :D
QuoteMcCain for President, if it has to be a democrat I hope obama gets the nod, the most articulate and intelligent of all the candidates and if clinton gets it i will be moving back home, the thought of four years and possibly eight years being led by thon would be enough to make me bail out and head back to Armagh.
serious question stew what is the major problem that right wingers in the states have with the clintons. it seems to be an absolutely visceral hatred.
Quote from: guy crouchback on February 05, 2008, 04:40:14 PM
QuoteMcCain for President, if it has to be a democrat I hope obama gets the nod, the most articulate and intelligent of all the candidates and if clinton gets it i will be moving back home, the thought of four years and possibly eight years being led by thon would be enough to make me bail out and head back to Armagh.
serious question stew what is the major problem that right wingers in the states have with the clintons. it seems to be an absolutely visceral hatred.
i asked stew that a while back, still waiting for an answer. what is it about her that drives some people mad is beyond me.
anyway in superbowl week i'm gonna say romney is throwing a hail mary today in the republican side but touchdown hillary on the dems side...
6 weeks ago I would have had the house on Clinton for the nomination. But there has been a huge obama groundswell here in the last few weeks that he may
actually be electable
anyone know what time results will start coming in? i can doss tomorrow morning if i stay up late tonight..
a lot of California has thankfully gone back to paper voting so it is likely to be wed evening
Quote from: magickingdom on February 05, 2008, 09:14:46 PM
anyone know what time results will start coming in? i can doss tomorrow morning if i stay up late tonight..
You'll get exit poll results as soon as the polls close, and in most states you will get precinct by precinct results without having to wait for the whole state to report.
Any exit polls out thus far?
Quote from: magickingdom on February 05, 2008, 09:14:46 PM
anyone know what time results will start coming in? i can doss tomorrow morning if i stay up late tonight..
BBC reckons the first results will start coming in at about midnight.
The US media are tastefully referring to it was Tsunami Tuesday. Filthy yank press.
Huckabee takes West Virginia
Quote from: Over the Bar on February 05, 2008, 09:57:02 PM
The US media are tastefully referring to it was Tsunami Tuesday. Filthy yank press.
Back when I was working in the democratic party we referred to it as super duper Tuesday because of the largest than normal number of states reporting. Have heard that a few different places since but it never really seemed to stick
thanks guys just realised cnn are doing it for the night, no work for me tomorrow :D
Whats the link magic? Can't see it on the CNN website.
watching it on telly TAM, obama has won georgia..
Obama projected to take Illinnois and Georgia
Clinton projected to take Oaklahoma, Arkansaw, Tennesse
No projections from CNN for 7 states for Democrats.
McCain projected to take Connecticut, Illinois, Delaware and New Jersey
Romney projected to take Massachusetts
Hasn't realised till tonight how important the "super delegates" might be for the Democrats. The elected officials may make the decision if the primaries finish tonight.
Also looks like Huckabee and Romney might cut each other's throats and hand McCain the nomination. Looks like McCain is doing very well amongst the "anti-Bush" Republicans.
All seems very tight at the minute though.
CNN projecting New York for Clinton.
Ahead in Massachutests as well which may be pivotal although Boston City still has to declare.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/
http://youdecide08.foxnews.com/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18970417/
http://www.politico.com
http://www.townhall.com/blog
http://www.realclearpolitics.com
Massachusetts being projected for Clinton. Given that Ted Kennedy's endorsement hasn't even carried his own state, it a big victory for Clinton and bad news for us Obama supporters.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on February 06, 2008, 02:48:00 AM
Massachusetts being projected for Clinton. Given that Ted Kennedy's endorsement hasn't even carried his own state, it a big victory for Clinton and bad news for us Obama supporters.
Massachusetts will have cheered up the Clinton camp no end a populous state which was looking a likely Obama state will mean an awful lot
Quote from: David McKeown on February 06, 2008, 03:25:25 AM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on February 06, 2008, 02:48:00 AM
Massachusetts being projected for Clinton. Given that Ted Kennedy's endorsement hasn't even carried his own state, it a big victory for Clinton and bad news for us Obama supporters.
Massachusetts will have cheered up the Clinton camp no end a populous state which was looking a likely Obama state will mean an awful lot
They shouldnt read too much into it, after all the good people of Massachusetts have long given a damn about anything a Kennedy says.
Quote from: stew on February 06, 2008, 04:18:09 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on February 06, 2008, 03:25:25 AM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on February 06, 2008, 02:48:00 AM
Massachusetts being projected for Clinton. Given that Ted Kennedy's endorsement hasn't even carried his own state, it a big victory for Clinton and bad news for us Obama supporters.
Massachusetts will have cheered up the Clinton camp no end a populous state which was looking a likely Obama state will mean an awful lot
They shouldnt read too much into it, after all the good people of Massachusetts have long given a damn about anything a Kennedy says.
Especially Ted.
When will the confirmed results be known?
Romney is suspending his campaign
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7233537.stm
What happens Romney's delegates now?
Can they transfer to Huckabee? Looks like McCain has it now anyway although Romney and Huckabee combined have almost 500 delegates compared to Romney's 707. Huckabee would havta start beating McCain on a very regular basis and that's unlikley to happen as he doesn't seem to have a broad appeal.
Poor value for the $40 million for Romney!
could be a smart play from Romney- he is now seen as the one who unified the party- took one for the team etc, and has done this in a way that will please the GOP big shots. eye on 2012 methinks
Quote from: heganboy on February 07, 2008, 06:41:57 PM
could be a smart play from Romney- he is now seen as the one who unified the party- took one for the team etc, and has done this in a way that will please the GOP big shots. eye on 2012 methinks
He will never be president however there may be a back stairs political deal that sets him up for the VP position or secretary of state should they prevail in the elections.
wow amazed to hear that, that was one expensive run. maybe he has vp lined up as stew said. dont think mccain comes across great on telly btw
rudy has been jockeying for VP with McCain- don't think he has any shot though
Ex-US President George Bush Snr endorses John McCain as the Republican Electional Candidate.
Obama takes Wisonsin
It's getting dirty now with Hilary's team playing the race/Islamic card. I said early on that neither Clinton or Obama could win and I'm more convinced of that now.
McCain is an old man past his prime but he's not some right wing religious nut, his name isn't Clinton and he is not a black person from an Islamic background. He will gather the middle ground before either Democart can and if he says very little between now and November he will win easily. It's his to lose no matter who the Democrates choose.
http://news.BBC.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7263783.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7263783.stm)
Arjun Ramachandran
February 26, 2008 - 9:13AM
A US man stabbed his relative after an argument over the presidential credentials of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
Brothers-in-law Jose Ortiz and Sean Shurelds were arguing about the fiery contest for the Democratic nomination for president at their Pennsylvania home when the dispute escalated into violence, US broadcaster CBS said.
US authorities said Ortiz, a registered Republican and Clinton supporter, allegedly stabbed Mr Shurelds, an Obama supporter, in the stomach, CBS said.
Mr Shurelds was flown to hospital and was in a critical condition. Ortiz was jailed and, if convicted of a crime, will be unable to vote in the election next year, the broadcaster said.
The contest between Senator Obama and Senator Clinton has been on a knife edge, and in recent days each candidate has accused the other of using shameful campaign tactics.
Quote from: stephenite on February 25, 2008, 11:40:21 PM
Arjun Ramachandran
February 26, 2008 - 9:13AM
A US man stabbed his relative after an argument over the presidential credentials of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
QuoteThe contest between Senator Obama and Senator Clinton has been on a knife edge, and in recent days each candidate has accused the other of using shameful campaign tactics.
Boom Boom!
Quote from: stephenite on February 25, 2008, 11:40:21 PM
US authorities said Ortiz, a registered Republican and Clinton supporter, allegedly stabbed Mr Shurelds, an Obama supporter, in the stomach, CBS said.
Thats a rarity a Republican that supports a Clinton.
Is there another super Tuesday today?
I think Obama can win and hope he does. Read his book there recently and its pretty good stuff.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 26, 2008, 02:50:30 PM
Is there another super Tuesday today?
Ohio and Texas today. Clinton really needs to probably win both I think, otherwise a lot of super delegates would be reluctant to go against the grassrooots popular vote come convention time.
Quote from: Mentalman on February 28, 2008, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 26, 2008, 02:50:30 PM
Is there another super Tuesday today?
Ohio and Texas today. Clinton really needs to probably win both I think, otherwise a lot of super delegates would be reluctant to go against the grassrooots popular vote come convention time.
Maybe they're all GAA delegates.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 28, 2008, 02:47:50 PM
Quote from: Mentalman on February 28, 2008, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 26, 2008, 02:50:30 PM
Is there another super Tuesday today?
Ohio and Texas today. Clinton really needs to probably win both I think, otherwise a lot of super delegates would be reluctant to go against the grassrooots popular vote come convention time.
Maybe they're all GAA delegates.
:) a definite possibility, especially when there are little fifedoms to be handed out. When it comes to that type of horse trading it will be initeresting will Obama still try to take the higher ground or will the real politic mean that in fact there is no real change.
they just reported that Hillary won Texas and Ohio.
Huck is out.
Clinton won the popular vote in Texas but Obama won the caucuses which actually means that he may come out of Texas with more delegates. On it goes
McCain has enough now for the GoP
First to 2,025 wins the nomination:
Barack Obama won Alabama, Alaska, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington state, Wisconsin
Total delegates 1,477 Delegates 1,275 Super delegates 202
Hillary Clinton won Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas
Total delegates 1,391 Delegates 1,150 Super delegates 241
Going right down to the wire. What are the odds now?
anyone got figures for the popular vote on the dems side to date?
Quote from: Lecale2 on February 25, 2008, 10:54:25 PM
McCain is an old man past his prime but he's not some right wing religious nut, his name isn't Clinton and he is not a black person from an Islamic background. He will gather the middle ground before either Democart can and if he says very little between now and November he will win easily. It's his to lose no matter who the Democrates choose.
http://news.BBC.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7263783.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7263783.stm)
Seems to have got very little flak for seeking and receiving the endorsement of that religious nut Hagee. McCain even refused to denounce the endorsement despite Hagee's anti-Catholic bigotry. That's the orange blood I suppose. Obama on the otherhand was asked to denounce the endorsement of Farrakan - which he did.
Popular Vote Total ...................................... Obama 12,989,852 Clinton 12,403,174
Popular Vote including Florida.......................... Obama 13,566,066 Clinton 13,274,160
Popular Vote including Florida and Michigan ........Obama 13,566,066 Clinton 13,602,469
Obama will be the next President with Hillary probably as his Vice.
Was actually reading an article today that reckons that an Obama/Clinton, Clinton/Obama ticket would be a disaster.....Too many reasons to get into....but actually made a lot of sense. The last I heard was Obama/Bloomberg was the dream ticket. Bloomberg could finance a campaign without any donations and is seen as a true Independent. Obama can still give his message of change, not special interest money, oil, insurance, health companies etc...as Bloomberg has bottomless pockets..
Personally..I don't know...African American/Jew, African American/Woman, Woman/African American...Can any of these combinations beat McCain and ???????????....I think if McCain picks a Jesus Freak for a running mate to compensate for is alienation from the right wing of the Republican Party it can only work in the Dems favor...but I think McCain might be too smart for that...It's going to be interesting...
Ron Paul is a very popular Congress man from Texas, he destroyed his neocon opponent Chris Peden to regain his Congressional seat with a 70% landslide victory in Tuesday's Republican primary, yet he only got 5.1% of the votes in the Texas Presidential Primary where John McCain is disliked, yet McCain received 51.2% of the vote. All the exit poles had Ron Paul in front. This smells of voter fraud just like what happened in all other states. Diebold voting machines to the rescue.
By telling the truth and having real solutions will make sure Ron Paul will never become President even though he is the choice of everyone that has heard his voice. The same voter fraud exists within the Democratic Primaries. The only difference is they are keeping this one close to captivate the gullible audience. Obama is the chosen one to be the next President as he has the backing of the Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, Bilderburg Group and the Rockefellers amongst others. There hasn't been a Presidential election in a while only Presidential selections. Bush was destroyed in the last election by patsy John Kerry. We have one party in the disguise of two controlled by the bankers and corporate America. There is never any change no matter which "party" is in power. We will still have perpetual wars in order to steal recourses and take away civil liberties, unconstitutional courts, taxes and licensing no matter which puppet becomes President.
The Bilderburgs had backed Clinton I thought? If the conspiracy theorists that saw her in Istanbul at the last exclusive gathering are anything to go by, not these loons have any credibility whatsoever
Get to know Ron Paul in the following interviews, it will help you find out who the real loons are.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CB5AAFAA23B13A70 (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CB5AAFAA23B13A70)
Quote from: Seamus on March 07, 2008, 03:33:44 AM
Ron Paul is a very popular Congress man from Texas, he destroyed his neocon opponent Chris Peden to regain his Congressional seat with a 70% landslide victory in Tuesday's Republican primary, yet he only got 5.1% of the votes in the Texas Presidential Primary where John McCain is disliked, yet McCain received 51.2% of the vote. All the exit poles had Ron Paul in front. This smells of voter fraud just like what happened in all other states. Diebold voting machines to the rescue.
By telling the truth and having real solutions will make sure Ron Paul will never become President even though he is the choice of everyone that has heard his voice. The same voter fraud exists within the Democratic Primaries. The only difference is they are keeping this one close to captivate the gullible audience. Obama is the chosen one to be the next President as he has the backing of the Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, Bilderburg Group and the Rockefellers amongst others. There hasn't been a Presidential election in a while only Presidential selections. Bush was destroyed in the last election by patsy John Kerry. We have one party in the disguise of two controlled by the bankers and corporate America. There is never any change no matter which "party" is in power. We will still have perpetual wars in order to steal recourses and take away civil liberties, unconstitutional courts, taxes and licensing no matter which puppet becomes President.
You are a ray of sunshine this fine march mornin! :-\
Quote from: Seamus on March 07, 2008, 03:33:44 AM
All the exit poles had Ron Paul in front.
Do you have any evidence of this?
Quote from: dec on March 07, 2008, 07:13:23 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 07, 2008, 03:33:44 AM
All the exit poles had Ron Paul in front.
Do you have any evidence of this?
All the exit polls apparently (although a quick search of Google News reveals nary a mention - I guess they're in on the conspiracy too).
I see today that Bill Clinton said the supposed Dream ticket Clinton/Obama, Obama/Clinton is virtually unstoppable...Of course Bill thinks that Hilary should be top of the ticket...That would have to be decided by the superdelegates...If the superdelegates leave either of them off the ticket...there could be a huge backlash from whichever section of the Democratic voters that feels slighted...
Dems have being voting in this primary like never before and Obama deserves a lot of credit for this. Methinks, that the Clintons are preparing for a Vice Presidential spot on the ticket for Hilary....It has been said that neither can win without the super delegates. It could be a the only way to keep all the new Dems on board in November...
Is a compromise in the making behind closed doors..
if clinton wins she will have to pick obama or shes fcuked, if obama wins he can pick who he wants imo...
Perhaps, but because it is so close...i hope it doesn't lead to a situation where one set of voters end up cutting their nose off to spite their face because their candidate isn't on the ticket in some capacity....it wouldn't be the first time the Dems self destructed....
A lot are saying that Obama's "message of change, we can believe in", could be easily attacked by Republicans if he takes Hil onboard...this makes sense imo....I do agree with you that Hil needs Obama a lot more than he needs her...
Is this the turning point??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrp-v2tHaDo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrp-v2tHaDo)
Inspiring stuff - A man for a generation
I heard bits of it this mornig on the radio (cannot access youtube at work) and it was inspiring stuff. I really think this is a great man in the making and sincerely hope he gets the chance to do what I believe he can.
Very powerful speech. Just listened to it. I hope he is as good a man, as he is a candidate. By that, I mean that I hope his real motivation, attitude and intentions are the same as those he voices publicly.
Jaysus lads, yis are scaring me!
I must have a listen when I get home this evening.
What's the book called Seanie?
The one I read (his second book) is called "The Audacity of Hope". I found it a great read. The title of the book is actually a phrase borrowed from the pastor that the controversy recently was over.
Lads, what has Obama actually achieved in his political career, that makes him the subject of such adulation? All I've heard is vague rhetoric thus far, maybe he might get going when he wins the nomination (looking likely now), otherwise Walter Mondale's line about Gary Hart may ring true again.
Quote from: Boynegael on March 09, 2008, 12:38:35 PM
I see today that Bill Clinton said the supposed Dream ticket Clinton/Obama, Obama/Clinton is virtually unstoppable...Of course Bill thinks that Hilary should be top of the ticket...That would have to be decided by the superdelegates...If the superdelegates leave either of them off the ticket...there could be a huge backlash from whichever section of the Democratic voters that feels slighted...
Dems have being voting in this primary like never before and Obama deserves a lot of credit for this. Methinks, that the Clintons are preparing for a Vice Presidential spot on the ticket for Hilary....It has been said that neither can win without the super delegates. It could be a the only way to keep all the new Dems on board in November...
Is a compromise in the making behind closed doors..
Quite possibly. They could be looking at the realpolitik of getting the Dems back into power - it'd be a powerful joint ticket - but, as you've also suggested, a good case can be made that the Clintons are putting their Plan B in place also, in the event of Obama winning the nomination.
When LBJ agreed to become JFK's running mate after a fractious Dem campaign in 1960, he was ridiculed & even his own supporters wondered how he could humiliate himself by accepting it? Kennedy needed the southern votes though & was pragmatic enough to put necessity before their own personal differences. LBJ shrewdly figured there might be some gain in it for himself as well as the party, never mind that others thought he had lost his marbles.
Quite correctly as it turned out, inside a few years LBJ took over following JFK's assasination & was re-elected as President in his own right the following term.
Never forget that politicians are pragmatists when it comes to arranging & positioning themselves to get their hands on power. Little things like personality clashes or differences of opinion won't stop them from doing what they have to do, when the right time comes.
It seems Obama is holding most of the cards currently though. Clinton might be a good choice of running mate in the long run, especially if he \ Dems are to survive the inevitable Rep dirt dishing later on. Look out for words like 'unity' & 'for the sake of the party \ country' etc in that event.
If Obama doesn't pick Clinton, rest asured he thinks (a) he can win without her & (b) he wants to scupper her as he sees her as a very real threat to his position in the future.
Lovely game, politics ;)
Headlines today...that the passport files of Obama, Clinton and McCain have all been snooped at by unauthorized personnel, resulting in the firing of two and disciplinary action taken against a third person.. Obama's apparantly was looked at three times. Just wondering what information these files might contain that would not already be public record for high profile people like them. Not excusing the snooping here.... Do these files contain a travel history for each. I would imagine it contains DOB and place of birth for self, mother and father...but what else. I can't remember what was on my form when I filled it out, is SS # included.
What could be gained from such snooping? I understand Obama travelled extensively as a child and lived in countries that might be considered hostile. Could this be a factor where he is concerned. What about Clinton and McCain...I would imagine someone is looking for some kind of dirt to be exploited...
Anybody got any thoughts on this?
Appears to be just some nosey workers from the Company who has the contract to manufacture US Passports for the Government....Although there seems to have been a lot a access to these files given by the current Government to Contractors..
Not as bad as the thirteen who got fired from UCLA for snooping in Britney's medical files...I'd say there was some reading in them...and they were rightly fired...
OMS - surprised at you just trotting out the Clintons party line. Obama has achieved plenty in terms of getting legislation passed while on the state legislature in Illinois and in his time in the senate. Also, unlike McCain and Hillary, he had the brains and the balls to say no to the Iraq war from the start. Can you tell me what Hillary or McCain have achieved thats so great about them? Maybe you credit Hillary with the Good Friday Agreement like they're trying to in the US!
The potential of Obama is huge. He is the intellectual heavyweight and has the most guts. He is not in hock to vested interests in the same way the other candidates are. I have no question that he is the best option and to be honest I've very excited about the prospect of him becoming US President. Have a read of his website if you're worried about lack of details. Its all there what he intends to do.
Totally agree with you that Obama has a lot of guts...He has been under a lot of pressure this week, because of the comments of Jerimiah Wright, and his own "typical white reaction" remark......IMO he handled it with grace, guts and class....I don't think he said anything in his speech that wasn't true...I suspect the others in the same situation would be seeking out a new faith by now...There aren't many politicians who will stand their ground in the face of that pressure...
I took no offense at his, "typical white reaction"...
just last week, I was taking the subway home from Manhattan....about 3 stops before I got off, I ended up in a carraige, alone with a black, middle aged man, wearing a parka...Immediately I felt anxious, kept my head down and wished the train to hurry up....This man did nothing untoward, was not menacing, didn't speak to me....in other words, there was no overt reason for my anxiety.....I guess, I had a "typical white reaction" to my situation...the shame is on me.....
Quote from: Boynegael on March 22, 2008, 04:03:45 PM
Totally agree with you that Obama has a lot of guts...He has been under a lot of pressure this week, because of the comments of Jerimiah Wright, and his own "typical white reaction" remark......IMO he handled it with grace, guts and class....I don't think he said anything in his speech that wasn't true...I suspect the others in the same situation would be seeking out a new faith by now...There aren't many politicians who will stand their ground in the face of that pressure...
I took no offense at his, "typical white reaction"...
just last week, I was taking the subway home from Manhattan....about 3 stops before I got off, I ended up in a carraige, alone with a black, middle aged man, wearing a parka...Immediately I felt anxious, kept my head down and wished the train to hurry up....This man did nothing untoward, was not menacing, didn't speak to me....in other words, there was no overt reason for my anxiety.....I guess, I had a "typical white reaction" to my situation...the shame is on me.....
Sure wasnt he born Muslim and turned! I find it interesting that his father still bothers with him, wasnt there a case lately where a Muslim killed his brother and it was deemed ok because his brother had the audicity to turn toward Christianity.
I'd say the republicians would rather face Obama than Clinton. Many people feel that America is not ready for a black president and sadly I agree with them. I think he is easily the class of the Democrats but some people are afraid of his colour and his interesting spiritual journey.
I would love to see a black president myself. This country needs a shake up and I believe Obama would be a great candidate to do just that.
I have no time at all for Clinton, he reminds me a lot of Thatcher.
I'm getting quite interested in the build-up to the US elections, but am still at a loss as to peoples massive dislike of Hillary?
Is it dislike by association (Bill), is it because she is a hard assed women or what is it?
Quote from: Boynegael on March 22, 2008, 04:03:45 PM
just last week, I was taking the subway home from Manhattan....about 3 stops before I got off, I ended up in a carraige, alone with a black, middle aged man, wearing a parka...Immediately I felt anxious, kept my head down and wished the train to hurry up....This man did nothing untoward, was not menacing, didn't speak to me....in other words, there was no overt reason for my anxiety.....I guess, I had a "typical white reaction" to my situation...the shame is on me.....
I think I felt a little like that when I first went back to NY to work for a spell in the early 90s as a naive young fella. I wouldn't give it a second thought any more though, although I would still be wary late at night. You probably have a bigger chance of running into bother in Dublin these days than New York.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on March 22, 2008, 10:50:59 PM
I'm getting quite interested in the build-up to the US elections, but am still at a loss as to peoples massive dislike of Hillary?
Is it dislike by association (Bill), is it because she is a hard assed women or what is it?
There is a huge range of things, from her failed attempt to nationalize health insurance in the early 90s, to her blaming the right wing media for all of Bill's troubles, to all of the theories (conspiracies or otherwise) about her and her husband's ruthless methods and dodgy dealings, to her "carpetbagging" a senate seat in NY, to the general perception of entitlement/annointment that (at one stage) surrounded her primary run. Whether all of this is fair, I don't know. She has been demonized so much at this stage that it is remarkable that she is doing as well as she is and hasn't imploded like Howard Dean last time out. At least some of Obama's success, in my opinion, can be put down to nervousness regarding Hillary's prospects in the general election, should she get the nomination. Almost half of the country will not vote for her, no matter what, which leaves a very thin margin to play with. Obama appeared to have far more crossover appeal, in terms of independents and moderate Republicans, with McCain probably in a similar boat, assuming he can woo enough conservatives in the end. Whether Obama's recent struggles will affect his broader appeal remains to be seen.
Stew....
you are going to highlight my quotes....I would prefer that you quote ONLY me....don't bundle me in with multiple statements in an attempt to align them with me.....after "shame on me"...the rest of your quote belongs to someone else...I stand by everything I've said thus far on this thread..
Are you "Karl Stewie Rove????????
Quote from: Owenmoresider on March 19, 2008, 08:30:13 PM
Lads, what has Obama actually achieved in his political career, that makes him the subject of such adulation? All I've heard is vague rhetoric thus far, maybe he might get going when he wins the nomination (looking likely now), otherwise Walter Mondale's line about Gary Hart may ring true again.
Arguably the greatest ever president of the US (its always between him and Washington in polls), Abraham Lincoln, was a lawyer who had served one two-year term in the House of Representatives when he became president. His predecessor, James Buchanan, arrived in the White House with a stunning CV, including Secretary of State, lengthy terms in both houses of congress and important diplomatic appointments, but is generally rated one of the two worst presidents ever. Not saying accomplishments are irrelevant, but they aren't always all they're cracked up to be or a great predictor of the ability of a president. I don't think Obama's CV pales that much in comparison to Hillary anyway, whose accomplishments have mainly come as the spouse of a very powerful husband.
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2008, 11:58:51 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on March 22, 2008, 10:50:59 PM
I'm getting quite interested in the build-up to the US elections, but am still at a loss as to peoples massive dislike of Hillary?
Is it dislike by association (Bill), is it because she is a hard assed women or what is it?
There is a huge range of things, from her failed attempt to nationalize health insurance in the early 90s, to her blaming the right wing media for all of Bill's troubles, to all of the theories (conspiracies or otherwise) about her and her husband's ruthless methods and dodgy dealings, to her "carpetbagging" a senate seat in NY, to the general perception of entitlement/annointment that (at one stage) surrounded her primary run. Whether all of this is fair, I don't know. She has been demonized so much at this stage that it is remarkable that she is doing as well as she is and hasn't imploded like Howard Dean last time out. At least some of Obama's success, in my opinion, can be put down to nervousness regarding Hillary's prospects in the general election, should she get the nomination. Almost half of the country will not vote for her, no matter what, which leaves a very thin margin to play with. Obama appeared to have far more crossover appeal, in terms of independents and moderate Republicans, with McCain probably in a similar boat, assuming he can woo enough conservatives in the end. Whether Obama's recent struggles will affect his broader appeal remains to be seen.
i take your points j70 but hillary was hated by the right way before she became a senator for ny or became a canditate for the dem nomination. why i have never quite understood myself.. since when did healthcare for all become a monster
Quote from: magickingdom on March 23, 2008, 08:22:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 22, 2008, 11:58:51 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on March 22, 2008, 10:50:59 PM
I'm getting quite interested in the build-up to the US elections, but am still at a loss as to peoples massive dislike of Hillary?
Is it dislike by association (Bill), is it because she is a hard assed women or what is it?
There is a huge range of things, from her failed attempt to nationalize health insurance in the early 90s, to her blaming the right wing media for all of Bill's troubles, to all of the theories (conspiracies or otherwise) about her and her husband's ruthless methods and dodgy dealings, to her "carpetbagging" a senate seat in NY, to the general perception of entitlement/annointment that (at one stage) surrounded her primary run. Whether all of this is fair, I don't know. She has been demonized so much at this stage that it is remarkable that she is doing as well as she is and hasn't imploded like Howard Dean last time out. At least some of Obama's success, in my opinion, can be put down to nervousness regarding Hillary's prospects in the general election, should she get the nomination. Almost half of the country will not vote for her, no matter what, which leaves a very thin margin to play with. Obama appeared to have far more crossover appeal, in terms of independents and moderate Republicans, with McCain probably in a similar boat, assuming he can woo enough conservatives in the end. Whether Obama's recent struggles will affect his broader appeal remains to be seen.
i take your points j70 but hillary was hated by the right way before she became a senator for ny or became a canditate for the dem nomination. why i have never quite understood myself.. since when did healthcare for all become a monster
Don't get me wrong, I know Hillary has been demonized for years - the senate run etc are just additional points laid against her.
Healthcare is a hugely controversial issue in the states because they've allowed themselves to get into a position where its supplied as an employment benefit for most people, which means that if your particular job doesn't grant that benefit, you may be fcuked. My employer pays half of my premium, but I still end up paying more than $200 per month for my share of the cost. Only the very poor qualify for medicaid, which would be similar to the medical card system in Ireland. Pensioners get covered under medicare, but even then they have to buy extra insurance to cover a lot of their potential costs.
i worked in the states for 10 years (ny and california) and healthcare is a biggie alright. in fairness to hillary all she tried to do was devise a system where everyone had access to some form of health cover and she got hammered (i dont think healthcare is as bad in the states as its made out to be and the best r&d is in the states) way beyond anything that was justified. your right close to 45% of voters wont touch her..
The problem with healthcare in the states is that if you don't have insurance or you don't have adequate insurance, you may not get the best possible care and you could end up tens of thousands of dollars (or even more) in debt. My father had heart issues before he died and had to get stents put in to sort out some blockages. Its a fairly routine operation and doesn't take too long, but for the operation and the overnight stay in the hospital, the insurance company was billed more than thirty thousand dollars!
I think Hillary's idea is that by compelling everyone to either buy private insurance or else partake in her proposed single-payer system and getting rid of a lot of the administrative waste, the costs of premiums will drop, as everyone is putting in a bit. The objection in the freedom -loving regions of the US is that the government has no right to compel anyone to buy health insurance. They also point to the problems of lengthy waiting lists and antiquated drugs and technologies that they allege occur in countries that rely on public systems.
Medical bankruptcy is also increasing in alarming numbers...if you get sick...and are unable to work...you run the risk of losing your job and hence your coverage, if your employer provides it...
Also, If you have a pre existing condition....healthcare companies won't touch you...
During one of the debates, I don't know which one, or which party, there was a couple there with one of these stories...Two/Three years ago, they were middle class couple with two incomes, owned their own home...After the birth of twins, one of which had some serious medical problems, mother gave up work to care for her ill child...down to one income...and then their insurance capped out at 2 million...They have now lost their home, still have one income, have no insurance and still have a very ill child...
the provision of healthcare coverage is one of the most important issues when deciding to accept a job...i couldn't take a job that didn't provide it or had me pay a large premium out of my salary.. I simply couldn't afford to do this and pay all my other bills....but millions don't have a choice... I know several people who refuse to shop at Walmart because of their healthcare policy for their employees..
Hillary appears to have done enough to keep going - projections of at least a 6 point win over Obama in Pennslyvania, which would be the minimum required to keep her in the race according to the 'experts'
Damn - hoped Obama would get the nomination sewn up by keeping it below 5 points, might really to start to hurt the democrats chances in November if they keep this up
I do not think it will hurt the Democrats at all. The country is sick to death of the rise in gas, food and all other consumer products which will fall to blame on the Republicans (rightly so). Also this god forsaken war which George W and his cronies setup. There will be a democratic president in the white house. Now if the new president can get the house and congress to work together (which is a diff story) then maybe this country can pick itself up from the bootstraps again.
The only concern I have is the religious right screwing the whole thing up with their petty views on how Christianity should somehow actually affect politics. The reason the US was founded for in the first place - religious freedom and separation from state and church.
Fingers crossed.
Quote from: stephenite on April 23, 2008, 02:39:36 AM
Hillary appears to have done enough to keep going - projections of at least a 6 point win over Obama in Pennslyvania, which would be the minimum required to keep her in the race according to the 'experts'
Damn - hoped Obama would get the nomination sewn up by keeping it below 5 points, might really to start to hurt the democrats chances in November if they keep this up
I think Hillary is a beaten docket at this stage and the sooner she realises this, the better for the Democrats IMO. Her campaign is heavily in debt and she just does not have the capacity for raising money in the same way that Obama seems to be doing in order to maintain an aggressive campaign. I dont think this is a scenario that anyone would have envisiged 12 months ago as the Clintons have been real money spinners in the past for the Dem's. I would expect Hillary's campaign to fizzle out after the next round of primaries in early May.
big night tonight, think hillary needs to win the two of them but thats a big ask. anyone know when the results will be out..
Hillary needs to win only one , Indiana - and she's on track to do just that according to ABC. Obama still on track to take North Carolina.
Interestingly the Sydney Morning Herald carries this story :
IT'S called the "nuclear option", and some say it would would rip the heart out of the Democrats and destroy all chance of their winning in November.
As Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama wound up punishing campaign schedules before the Indiana and North Carolina primaries, talk of the Clinton camp going nuclear emerged.
The Huffington Post, a liberal website, said that the Clintons were working on a strategy to take to the Democratic Party's 30-member rules and bylaws committee the issue of the Florida and Michigan delegates disbarred because those states moved their primaries forward in defiance of the national party.
If the Clinton camp succeeds in seating these states at the national convention it will give Senator Clinton more elected delegates than Senator Obama.
On Monday, Senator Obama pleaded with voters in Indianapolis to help him finish the gruelling contest and avoid a convention showdown.
"I don't want this campaign to be about flag pins and sniper fire or a former pastor," he said.
"I think we can do better."
Senator Obama's big drawcard at his last Indiana campaign event at the American Legion Mall was Stevie Wonder.
His campaign also announced another celebrity endorsement, from Tom Hanks.
Wonder did just two songs before rain fell. And the forecast was that Senator Clinton would win Indiana - by a margin of about 6 percentage points.
Senator Obama still looked to have a solid lead in North Carolina, but nothing like his 20-point margin of three weeks ago. If he wins by six points or less, Senator Clinton is likely to trumpet the result as a win.
With one win apiece in the last two big states, the race would almost certainly continue until the end of the primary season on June 3, after which party officials would strongly urge the super-delegates to go public with their positions.
And then there is the nuclear option. There are real problems with the strategy: first, Senator Clinton would need to persuade her loyalists on the rules committee to back the plan.
Second, it would not look good if the nomination was in effect decided by just 30 people in a closed room.
Third, Senator Obama would appeal to the credentials committee at the convention, setting the stage for one of the ugliest convention brawls in history.
QuoteHillary needs to win only one , Indiana - and she's on track to do just that according to ABC. Obama still on track to take North Carolina.
By all accounts in the media here she absolutely must win both.
Quote from: Tyrones own on May 07, 2008, 12:45:27 AM
QuoteHillary needs to win only one , Indiana - and she's on track to do just that according to ABC. Obama still on track to take North Carolina.
By all accounts in the media here she absolutely must win both.
Hope that's the case, as Obama has just taken NC. Yank on Aussie ABC was fairly specific that one would be enough to keep the race going for Clinton - like I said I hope that's the case
I think for the sake of the party she'll now have to bow out (hopefully) :)
Jesus - Obama fairly shortened that lead in Indiana, 52 - 48 in favour of Clinton with 78% of votes counted. Larger urban areas apparently left to be counted which could also fall Obama's way.
She's fucked now surely?
seems like it's all over bar the shouting
I think the Clintons are just trying to save face now
just reported on ABC Hillary wins Indiana 51% to 49 %
Not a good victory for Clinton - I tihnk she was leading there by double digits a few weeks ago
still a win for Clinton, despite all the spin. Interesting to see how Florida and Michigan get dealt with now. It would take some dealing for her to get the nomination, but I wouldn't rule it out just yet...
The Bilderberg Group met in secret in Athens over the weekend and for the first time in over 30 years they were able to avoid the likes of Jim Tucker. By now the next President and VP is set in stone. Ireland's Michael Smurfit of Jefferson Smurfit & Sons Ltd and Diebold fame was a past attendee, wonder was he there this time?
Meanwhile the dog and pony show continues.
Obama clinches the Democratic Party's nomination with U2(Beautiful Day) song playing in St.Paul Minnesota.
Now lets see who he picks for VP on his ticket Logic would dictate Hillary but do not rule out Edwards.
A Black male nominated for U.S. President, times are changing - for the better.
A Biffo Taoiseach and now the possibility of a Biffo in the Whitehouse?
The New Biffo Order is upon us. :P
Just like AZ predicted here on this board - 2008, The year of the Biffo :D :D :D
Another Biffo in power
Tis indeed the year of the Offaly men. First Brian Cowen now Barrack Obama. Finally Billary Clinton has admitted defeat and while i dont fancy his chances hopefully Barrack will be the next "leader of the free world"
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0604/uselection.html
Taoiseach? Pah.
President of the U.S.A.? Pah.
I'm sure Brian and Barack would give it all up tomorrow if it meant a victory over the hordes from the north next Saturday evening in Tullamore.
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on June 04, 2008, 03:13:33 AM
Obama clinches the Democratic Party's nomination with U2(Beautiful Day) song playing in St.Paul Minnesota.
Now lets see who he picks for VP on his ticket Logic would dictate Hillary but do not rule out Edwards.
A Black male nominated for U.S. President, times are changing - for the better.
having read a bit of Hillary´s concessionary speech i dont think he´ll bother putting her as VP
"Because of you, we won together the swing states necessary to get to 270 electoral votes," she told the crowd in New York City. "I want the nearly 18 million Americans who voted for me to be respected, to be heard and no longer to be invisible."
anyone got the full speech available?
but will Obama need Billary as VP to have a chance of winning, as it may bring alot of her supporters along side him? Or will they vote democrat anyway?
Very few Democrats will vote Republican, that's for sure, but the danger for the democrats is that the Clinton voters would be alienated at this stage, because of the relatively dirty campaign, and will just stay at home.
Obama will need to get them back onside fairly rapid, by launching a strong campaign against McCain, or else the Arizona senator might waltz to victory by default.
Quote from: lurganblue on June 04, 2008, 11:19:31 AM
"Because of you, we won together the swing states necessary to get to 270 electoral votes," she told the crowd in New York City. "I want the nearly 18 million Americans who voted for me to be respected, to be heard and no longer to be invisible."
Was listening to this on the radio last night. Took me quite a while to realise she had lost.
I hope Obama goes for Edwards as VP candidate. Firstly cos I can't stand the dirty, negative campaign the Clintons engaged in. Secondly cos its going to be hard enough to get a black man into the White House without having a woman on the ticket as well.
I cant see how Obama can win this election, the guy has yet to show any substance and won mainly through the black vote which is no reason to vote for someone. I don't think hilary wants to be his VP, I wouldnt be surprised if she was waiting for him to lose and just wait 4 more years.
Tankie - you are wrong there. Its a young vote that Obama has mobilised but he has made inroads in all socio economic groups. To say he hasn't displayed any substance shows a poor knowledge of the campaign and/or a swallowing whole of the Clinton's negativity.
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 04, 2008, 01:50:21 PM
Tankie - you are wrong there. Its a young vote that Obama has mobilised but he has made inroads in all socio economic groups. To say he hasn't displayed any substance shows a poor knowledge of the campaign and/or a swallowing whole of the Clinton's negativity.
Obama won 90% of the Black vote to hillarys 10% and roughly around 40% of the white vote. this shows that alot of the black vote only voted as he is black. And when i say he has no substance its is because he has said what he wants to do but has not said how or where he will get the money to do it, I think McCain will wipe the floor with him in the debates!
I agree with tankie on this one, McCain will be the next prez, the Democratic race has split an already rocky electorate, all McCain needs to do now is distance himself as far away from Bush and he may even pull in a few Hillary voters.
Another term with a Rep in charge - fcuk!
Only good thing is that he couldn't be as bad as Dubya?
Obama has plenty of time to concentrate on wooing the so called alienated Clinton democrats if he doesn't run with her - if he does run with her though I think he'll be a shoe in.
Iraq will be the big issue - Obama wants out, McCain wants in - Most Americans want out therefore Democrats take back the Whitehouse. Maybe... ;)
McCain would want to pick his VP wisely. I think McCain will be over 80 by the time any prospective presidential term is over, so the VP will be a factor in attracting any 'unsure' voters.
If you are interested Minder there's plenty of detail on his website and this may be a good place to start:
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/
By the way do you have the stats for the % of white women that voted for Hilary Clinton? Would it be a bad thing if a high % of these voted for her. Your argument is borderline racist.
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 04, 2008, 03:13:43 PM
If you are interested Minder there's plenty of detail on his website and this may be a good place to start:
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/
By the way do you have the stats for the % of white women that voted for Hilary Clinton? Would it be a bad thing if a high % of these voted for her. Your argument is borderline racist.
How is it boarderline racist? i just pointed out that it appears alot a black people voted for a black man and we need to know there reasons. it aint anuthing near racist.
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 04, 2008, 03:13:43 PM
If you are interested Minder there's plenty of detail on his website and this may be a good place to start:
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/
By the way do you have the stats for the % of white women that voted for Hilary Clinton? Would it be a bad thing if a high % of these voted for her. Your argument is borderline racist.
What?
Apologies Minder, got you and Tankie mixed up.
Tankie, you initially said (Obama):
Quotewon mainly through the black vote which is no reason to vote for someone.
This is not the same as:
Quotei just pointed out that it appears alot a black people voted for a black man and we need to know there reasons
I stand over my comments. You didn't wonder about any other demographic that voted in large numbers for one or the other. Why?
i'm one of those who really believe clinton would have beaten mccain but obama wont. the fact that clinton would be the first women going for the office would have got alot of women republicans to slip her their vote on the quite now its just two men, one an old but true war hero (dont laugh, counts for a lot with american voters) and the other a young inexperienced but brilliant orator. substance over style is how alot of people will see this race and in these times people will vote for what they know. btw i think mccain is a million miles better than bush as do most yanks i know
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 04, 2008, 06:00:06 PM
Apologies Minder, got you and Tankie mixed up.
Tankie, you initially said (Obama):
Quotewon mainly through the black vote which is no reason to vote for someone.
This is not the same as:
Quotei just pointed out that it appears alot a black people voted for a black man and we need to know there reasons
I stand over my comments. You didn't wonder about any other demographic that voted in large numbers for one or the other. Why?
he won 90% of the black vote in most primaries, if Clinton won 90% of the white vote the same questions would be asked. there is nothing racist about so dont be saying that kind of thing.
i agree with Magickingdom on this one, and also I dont think Tankie's statement is even slightly racist and I'm confused as to how you could find offense there, but thats just me...
Obama is very lucky all the shite involving his church, as well as ill-advised comments such as those he made about people clinging to guns and religion, didn't come out sooner, because there is no way he would have won the nomination. It may still cost him in November because the right wing is not going to let it drop.
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2008, 02:34:32 AM
Obama is very lucky all the shite involving his church, as well as ill-advised comments such as those he made about people clinging to guns and religion, didn't come out sooner, because there is no way he would have won the nomination. It may still cost him in November because the right wing is not going to let it drop.
A lot of these comments have been taken out of context by Obama's opponents and used against him..suppose questioning your opponents character is par for the course in (American) politics.
This website explains some of these comments - http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp
Quote from: laceer on June 05, 2008, 03:13:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2008, 02:34:32 AM
Obama is very lucky all the shite involving his church, as well as ill-advised comments such as those he made about people clinging to guns and religion, didn't come out sooner, because there is no way he would have won the nomination. It may still cost him in November because the right wing is not going to let it drop.
A lot of these comments have been taken out of context by Obama's opponents and used against him..suppose questioning your opponents character is par for the course in (American) politics.
This website explains some of these comments - http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp
I was thinking more of the comments he made in San Francisco last month:
Quote
But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
Whatever way he meant it, the last sentence has been used to beat him (especially by the Clinton campaign) over the past month, and it will not be forgotten by the Republicans, even if McCain tries to disassociate his official campaign from any such tactics. Obama looked untouchable until March of this year, but the antics of Reverend Wright and comments like the above and his slowness to deal with such issues, especially Wright, have played a major role in turning the tide toward Hillary, even if it happened a month too late to affect the final outcome.
I honestly think the Church rhetoric will sink him in the end, could someone answer me how you
explain away 20 yrs of sitting in the pews listening to wright and co spewing that type of hatred
then think you can suddenly see the light and disassociate yourself from it because it suits at the present time,
was he not outraged with it 10 or 15 yrs ago? and if not, why not :-\
Can you imagine if he was running against a man with a history of involvement with the White supremacist or the like :o
He wouldn't see the light of day! The double standards in this country are sickening >:(
I also believe the only way Obama would consider Hillarious for VP would be if she divorced Bill, he couldn't keep his mouth shut
during her campaign, there's no possible way he'd keep his nose out of affairs in their administration.
I heard speculation the other night that Republican Richard Lugar was a good possibility for Obama's VP slot, although he's older than McCain.
Obama's problems are only about to begin. The Michelle Obama Hate Whitey Video will be released shortly. http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/06/whats-on-michelle-obama-rant-tape.html (http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/06/whats-on-michelle-obama-rant-tape.html) Karl Rove is in possession of the tape and is waiting until after the Convention to introduce it to the public. It would be better for the Democrats if it came out beforehand. That along with Larry Sinclair and the three murders of the Trinity United Church members may well destroy Obama. Maybe there was a motive behind Rev Wright's outburst. He more that anyone knows what happened at that church. Regarding his comments http://www.inlieswetrust.com (http://www.inlieswetrust.com) is a must see documentary.
Obama's involvement in the Ford Foundation, if the truth were revealed will also hurt.
I had a laugh at the statement by Obama regarding his formation of a research team in order to come up with his running mate. The Bilderberg Group are meeting this weekend in Chantilly Virginia to decide this along with their criminal moves for the year ahead. The Athens meeting did not happen, it was a decoy that did not fool the likes of Jim Tucker.
It's hard to know which of the three stooges are worse, Evil Hillary is well known at this stage and McCain is no war hero, he happens to be the very opposite.
To save America and the world we have to hope for a Ron Paul miracle, it is still not too late for people to wake up.
Quote from: Tyrones own on June 05, 2008, 06:08:28 AM
I honestly think the Church rhetoric will sink him in the end, could someone answer me how you
explain away 20 yrs of sitting in the pews listening to wright and co spewing that type of hatred
then think you can suddenly see the light and disassociate yourself from it because it suits at the present time,
was he not outraged with it 10 or 15 yrs ago? and if not, why not :-\
Can you imagine if he was running against a man with a history of involvement with the White supremacist or the like :o
He wouldn't see the light of day! The double standards in this country are sickening >:(
I also believe the only way Obama would consider Hillarious for VP would be if she divorced Bill, he couldn't keep his mouth shut
during her campaign, there's no possible way he'd keep his nose out of affairs in their administration.
How familiar are you with some of McCain's endorsers. He actually actively sought the endosement of Rev Hagee.
http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/the_mccainhagee_connection_1.php
Quote from: Seamus on June 05, 2008, 02:50:50 PM
Obama’s involvement in the Ford Foundation, if the truth were revealed will also hurt.
I had a laugh at the statement by Obama regarding his formation of a research team in order to come up with his running mate. The Bilderberg Group are meeting this weekend in Chantilly Virginia to decide this along with their criminal moves for the year ahead. The Athens meeting did not happen, it was a decoy that did not fool the likes of Jim Tucker.
It’s hard to know which of the three stooges are worse, Evil Hillary is well known at this stage and McCain is no war hero, he happens to be the very opposite.
To save America and the world we have to hope for a Ron Paul miracle, it is still not too late for people to wake up.
Jim Corr called he wants his conspiracy theory back
QuoteHow familiar are you with some of McCain's endorsers. He actually actively sought the endosement of Rev Hagee.
I'm not exactly sure if you're making a direct comparison of Hagee and Wright and co but below
is a quote from your link which just about sums up my view on the situation.
"You see, I forgot that John Hagee married McCain and his wife, baptized his children, works on his campaign,
is one of his greatest spiritual advisors and has been McCain's pastor for the past 17 years,
Your right, the parallels here are eerie. "
Couldn't give a toss personally about Obama's reverend per se, particularly given the slew of religious whackjobs and bigots who are so prevalent in the US right wing and the Republican party. I just think he handled it badly.
anyone got any ideas as to who obama will pick for vp? if he picks clinton he cant keep his change argument going yet she has a very big gun to his head, she got 18m votes about 20 states and if she ran as an independant (not a hope) she'd kill off obama. does obama dumps change and picks hillary or try and grind it out without her?
Quote from: magickingdom on June 05, 2008, 09:17:18 PM
anyone got any ideas as to who obama will pick for vp? if he picks clinton he cant keep his change argument going yet she has a very big gun to his head, she got 18m votes about 20 states and if she ran as an independant (not a hope) she'd kill off obama. does obama dumps change and picks hillary or try and grind it out without her?
john edwards could be a candidate. not sure if hillary wud want to be v.p. shell back him for sure but cud end up being a supreme court judge or something else
Who will McCain go for?
That will have a big effect on his crossover appeal, which is pretty good. If he goes with someone to placate the rabid right, he will lose some of that.
Romney has been mentioned, but I am not sure a highly successful man like him go for being no. 2. There's the Mormon factor too...
Quote from: J70 on June 05, 2008, 09:28:26 PM
Who will McCain go for?
That will have a big effect on his crossover appeal, which is pretty good. If he goes with someone to placate the rabid right, he will lose some of that.
Romney has been mentioned, but I am not sure a highly successful man like him go for being no. 2. There's the Mormon factor too...
your kidding j70 romney would jump at it. thats his ticket to the presidency and hes already spent $40m trying to get it. the mormon thing wont help tho even tho it shouldnt come into it
Quote from: off the ground on June 05, 2008, 09:24:40 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on June 05, 2008, 09:17:18 PM
anyone got any ideas as to who obama will pick for vp? if he picks clinton he cant keep his change argument going yet she has a very big gun to his head, she got 18m votes about 20 states and if she ran as an independant (not a hope) she'd kill off obama. does obama dumps change and picks hillary or try and grind it out without her?
john edwards could be a candidate. not sure if hillary wud want to be v.p. shell back him for sure but cud end up being a supreme court judge or something else
hillary has apparently said she is open to be obamas vp..
I'm getting John McCain ads on this site...
I see that, not exactly positive in questioning safety and the
photo sure does him no favours, fine unbiased job whoever
is behind it ::)
I have thought from nearly the time he got the presumptive nominee moniker that McCain would pick Charlie Christ, seems to tick most of the boxes McCain would be looking for. Democratic VP candidate still has me baffled though.
Crist isn't exactly a hardline right-winger though. The conservatives will probably have a fit if McCain goes with him.
Ireland's Attorney General Paul Gallagher is an attendee at the Bilderberg conference in Chantilly Virginal this weekend.
Under heavy security it is believed that Obama and Hillary Clinton had their private meeting at the premises last night. At this stage it seems almost a certainty that they will be on the Presidential, VP Democratic ticket. If that is the case Hillary will be President within two years.
Personally I feel that Joe Lieberman will be lame duck John McCain's running mate with Romney having an outside chance. We should know after the weekend.
Quote from: Seamus on June 07, 2008, 01:33:56 AM
Ireland's Attorney General Paul Gallagher is an attendee at the Bilderberg conference in Chantilly Virginal this weekend.
Under heavy security it is believed that Obama and Hillary Clinton had their private meeting at the premises last night. At this stage it seems almost a certainty that they will be on the Presidential, VP Democratic ticket. If that is the case Hillary will be President within two years.
Personally I feel that Joe Lieberman will be lame duck John McCain's running mate with Romney having an outside chance. We should know after the weekend.
How could Hillary be president in two years?
If he obama dies?
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on June 07, 2008, 02:13:14 AM
Quote from: Seamus on June 07, 2008, 01:33:56 AM
Ireland's Attorney General Paul Gallagher is an attendee at the Bilderberg conference in Chantilly Virginal this weekend.
Under heavy security it is believed that Obama and Hillary Clinton had their private meeting at the premises last night. At this stage it seems almost a certainty that they will be on the Presidential, VP Democratic ticket. If that is the case Hillary will be President within two years.
Personally I feel that Joe Lieberman will be lame duck John McCain's running mate with Romney having an outside chance. We should know after the weekend.
How could Hillary be president in two years?
in seamus world these things are planned. just like jim corr
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D
Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D
The O'Reilly disciple has spoken.
Ref: Hillary said ... "She will suspend her campaign..." .. methinks as assassination is on the way... also the dual ticket.. just think .. Hillary being a woman could save the White House a fortune by cooking and cleaning, while Bill - in between blowjobs in the garden shed - could keep the gardens in good order...
Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election.
Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D
At this point, I think Obama has a tough task ahead of him. However, there are five months left, and McCain has been quietly left to his own devices to this point with all the attention on the Democratic race. The scrutiny hasn't even started on him yet, while Obama has been pounded for the past three months. He has crawled across the finish line, but at least Obama has the experience of beating the Clinton machine behind him, which he will need, given what is likely to come. A lot is riding on the VP choice for both. McCain, in particular, is trying to balance winning the hard right wing conservatives with maintaining his popularity among moderates of both sides, while Obama obviously has bridges to build to reunite the Dems.
Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D
Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D
Stew,
if McCain beats Obama I will drive up and shovel the snow off your driveway on the inagural day.
The Republicans destruction of the econmy, the war, the deficit and over all ruination these past 8 years will put Obama in the White House.
Heard Kathleen Sebelius is Obama's VP choice, she is 12/1 with Paddy Power at the moment
Quote from: stew on June 07, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Obama hasnt a chance in hell of winning this election. Thank God that baste billory got her arse kicked by Obama. ;D
Thanks democrats, you have handed the presidency to McCain. ;D
I think Dubya and co will reckon their bravado with the Ruskies should win it for McCain.
Unfortunately when the Russkies respond, not by escalating the phoney handbags, but by trading their oil in Euros (quickly followed by Iran and Chavez) and the dollar collapses, the US economy, banking system etc., will go with it (as will ours and the UK's). And I'm talking Zimbabwe not a mere recession.
The headbangers with no real options may, as usual, look to 'war' their way out of trouble but it would be quite a feat to simultaneously fight completely different wars in Iraq, Iran, Russia and Venezuela particularly with soup replacing oil as the top commodity.
But who cares as long as the GOP are in power, eh Stew?
Obama has chosen Joe Biden as his candidate for VP. He was a candidate for the Democrat nomination for a while until he pulled out of the race. Here is what McCain says about him;
"There has been no harsher critic of Barack Obama's lack of experience than Joe Biden. Biden has denounced Barack Obama's poor foreign policy judgment and has strongly argued in his own words what Americans are quickly realizing -- that Barack Obama is not ready to be President."
Biden is the best pick obama could have made. a very experienced candidate, he will attempt to nullify the criticism of obama about his lack of experience. a solid candidate with no drama
Just be prepared for endless reruns of Biden plagiarizing Kinnock in campaign speeches from '88, as well as his attacks on Obama's inexperience and his description of him as a clean-cut, intelligent black man in the primaries just gone. Biden is certainly very well qualified, but in the vicious world of American campaign politics, where substance means little in comparison to "gotcha" attacks and the amplification of fairly meaningless slips and gaffes, this choice could lead either way, particularly given Biden's verbosity and tendency towards the occasional gaffe. This campaign is going to be very nasty, despite both candidates original pledges to rise above it. I would not be surpised to see Obama contrast Biden's loss of his wife and baby in a car accident right after he originally won his senate seat with McCain's leaving his first wife when she was recovering from a car accident, although saner heads might prevail. Character is not an issue where Obama can easily score points against a man who spent five years as a POW.
Anyone watch the 2 Clinton's speeches the last 2 nights?
The Democrats unifying?
McCain can pull a master stroke here and nominate a woman as his running mate to woo the disenfranchised hillary fans
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 28, 2008, 03:06:40 PM
Anyone watch the 2 Clinton's speeches the last 2 nights?
The Democrats unifying?
obama might have a bit of a problem here. a poll taken before he selected his vp had 26% oh hillarys supporters not voting for him and one taken after he nominated biden showed 50% of hillarys 18m voters not voting for him (they were not all voting mccain, just not voting obama). i must say as one who was hoping hillary would get the nomination obama aint doing much for me, sure he beats bush hands down but so does mccain. it might be alot closer than some people think
Quote from: The GAA on August 28, 2008, 03:12:57 PM
McCain can pull a master stroke here and nominate a woman as his running mate to woo the disenfranchised hillary fans
The has been speculation that the governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin, would be chosen by McCain (she's actually very attractive, in a glasses plus hair-tied back secretary kind of way! :P), but, unless I've missed something today, it seems at this stage to be between Romney, Pawlenty (governor of Minnesota) and, the wildcard, Joe Lieberman (I'd love it to be him as it would tear the party apart!).
Quote from: magickingdom on August 28, 2008, 10:03:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 28, 2008, 03:06:40 PM
Anyone watch the 2 Clinton's speeches the last 2 nights?
The Democrats unifying?
obama might have a bit of a problem here. a poll taken before he selected his vp had 26% oh hillarys supporters not voting for him and one taken after he nominated biden showed 50% of hillarys 18m voters not voting for him (they were not all voting mccain, just not voting obama). i must say as one who was hoping hillary would get the nomination obama aint doing much for me, sure he beats bush hands down but so does mccain. it might be alot closer than some people think
At this point, I think McCain is going to win it. Obviously circumstances can cause big swings, but the Republican dirty tricks machine is going to go into overdrive over the coming weeks. Expect to see plenty of rumours and whispers e.g. one reported in the NY Times this week where some hick said he wasn't voting for Obama because he had received an email saying that Obama had refused to shake hands with the troops in Afghanistan. The gentleman in question didn't know if it was true, and he didn't have time to do some research, so he was just going to play safe and not vote for him!
In addition to all that, Obama's inexperience is genuinely going to be an issue for an awful lot of people. He's been a US senator for just three and a half years, two of which he has been running for president. Apart from that he was a state senator in Illinois and a law professor. Compare that to recent presidents, all of whom have been either governors or vice-presidents. You have to go back to Eisenhower for the last one who was neither, but you could hardly say he had a hole in his resume when it came to leadership, administration and foreign relations. Obama is going to have to convince a lot of people that he will be up to the job.
Of course, McCain is also a senator, but he has been around a very long time and has fostered an image of himself as an independent maverick who can get things done, reaching across the aisles to work on quite a number of issues.
QuoteI would not be surpised to see Obama contrast Biden's loss of his wife and baby in a car accident right after he originally won his senate seat with McCain's leaving his first wife when she was recovering from a car accident
I would be shocked if that happened.
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 28, 2008, 10:51:52 PM
QuoteI would not be surpised to see Obama contrast Biden's loss of his wife and baby in a car accident right after he originally won his senate seat with McCain's leaving his first wife when she was recovering from a car accident
I would be shocked if that happened.
I would be shocked too if something like that came out in an official campaign ad, with the "I'm Obama and I approve of this message" bit. I'd even be surprised if some of the surrogate or non-affiliated groups came out with it, but you never know in American politics.
I should correct what I said there too - his wife's accident occurred when he was a POW, but she numerous operations afterwards, leaving her five inches shorter, disfigured and overweight (she had been a model). He basically traded her in for a much younger, better looking (and filthy rich) woman. I suppose you don't know how you would act until you are in that situation i.e. POW unknowingly returning after years in captivity to find a wife who's undergone an awful, disfiguring trauma as well, but it doesn't say a lot for his "family values" which seems to be such a big part of the republican party's "appeal".
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2008, 11:08:41 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 28, 2008, 10:51:52 PM
QuoteI would not be surpised to see Obama contrast Biden's loss of his wife and baby in a car accident right after he originally won his senate seat with McCain's leaving his first wife when she was recovering from a car accident
I would be shocked if that happened.
I would be shocked too if something like that came out in an official campaign ad, with the "I'm Obama and I approve of this message" bit. I'd even be surprised if some of the surrogate or non-affiliated groups came out with it, but you never know in American politics.
I should correct what I said there too - his wife's accident occurred when he was a POW, but she numerous operations afterwards, leaving her five inches shorter, disfigured and overweight (she had been a model). He basically traded her in for a much younger, better looking (and filthy rich) woman. I suppose you don't know how you would act until you are in that situation i.e. POW unknowingly returning after years in captivity to find a wife who's undergone an awful, disfiguring trauma as well, but it doesn't say a lot for his "family values" which seems to be such a big part of the republican party's "appeal".
youd do the republicans dirty tricks dept proud there j70... bit harsh
i agree with you about mccain having a very good chance of winning it tho. he has down a remarkable job in differentiating himself from george bush. most people want bush out and mccain aint seen as bush 2 (or 3!)
Quote from: magickingdom on August 28, 2008, 11:34:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2008, 11:08:41 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 28, 2008, 10:51:52 PM
QuoteI would not be surpised to see Obama contrast Biden's loss of his wife and baby in a car accident right after he originally won his senate seat with McCain's leaving his first wife when she was recovering from a car accident
I would be shocked if that happened.
I would be shocked too if something like that came out in an official campaign ad, with the "I'm Obama and I approve of this message" bit. I'd even be surprised if some of the surrogate or non-affiliated groups came out with it, but you never know in American politics.
I should correct what I said there too - his wife's accident occurred when he was a POW, but she numerous operations afterwards, leaving her five inches shorter, disfigured and overweight (she had been a model). He basically traded her in for a much younger, better looking (and filthy rich) woman. I suppose you don't know how you would act until you are in that situation i.e. POW unknowingly returning after years in captivity to find a wife who's undergone an awful, disfiguring trauma as well, but it doesn't say a lot for his "family values" which seems to be such a big part of the republican party's "appeal".
youd do the republicans dirty tricks dept proud there j70... bit harsh
i agree with you about mccain having a very good chance of winning it tho. he has down a remarkable job in differentiating himself from george bush. most people want bush out and mccain aint seen as bush 2 (or 3!)
I did qualify what I said by saying that you don't know what goes on between two people, particularly a couple that underwent the respective and joint traumas that they did. Neither the physical nor mental anguish can have been easy for them.
Nevertheless, it cannot be (and is not) denied that he "traded her in for a much younger, better looking (and filthy rich) woman." :P
and beer heiress at that! ;D ;D
What about the Elephant in the room which no one will mention publicly, but is the one real difficulty for Obama to get over, you all know what im talking about. There is a chauvinistic, right wing element among the democrats who will find it difficult to vote, despite their having the best candidate by a country mile
Well - that was some extravaganza
a very electable speech, candidate, well maybe not so much...
Sounded great no doubt, he's def going to get some amount of work done when he gets in ;)
Actually am looking forward to the debates though...
looking like pawlenty is the mccain vp...
A little surprised, I would have thought Romney :-\
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2008, 10:09:37 PM
Quote from: The GAA on August 28, 2008, 03:12:57 PM
McCain can pull a master stroke here and nominate a woman as his running mate to woo the disenfranchised hillary fans
The has been speculation that the governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin, would be chosen by McCain (she's actually very attractive, in a glasses plus hair-tied back secretary kind of way! :P),
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Palin1.JPG/225px-Palin1.JPG)
Quote from: heganboy on August 29, 2008, 05:13:38 AM
looking like pawlenty is the mccain vp...
oops or maybe not:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-CVN-Veepstakes.html
I'd vote for this....
(http://wonkette.com/images/thumbs/857ee0f0362910b41702a36aef61d082.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/serr8d/elected%20politicos/SarahPalinlg.jpg)
(http://bp0.blogger.com/_hWAVXHNngbk/R2PlYvMVm5I/AAAAAAAAAPQ/bsqIRFnjQ90/s320/Sarah-Palin-Vogue.jpg)
Palin confirmed. interesting.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7588435.stm
She would def have to keep the glasses on!
She may be cute, but the environmental/conservation movement do not like her...
From Defenders of Wildlife...
Quote
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 29, 2008
Shocking Choice by John McCain
WASHINGTON-- Senator John McCain just announced his choice for running mate: Governor Sarah Palin of Alaska. To follow is a statement by Rodger Schlickeisen, president of Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund.
"Senator McCain's choice for a running mate is beyond belief. By choosing Sarah Palin, McCain has clearly made a decision to continue the Bush legacy of destructive environmental policies.
"Sarah Palin, whose husband works for BP (formerly British Petroleum), has repeatedly put special interests first when it comes to the environment. In her scant two years as governor, she has lobbied aggressively to open up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling, pushed for more drilling off of Alaska's coasts, and put special interests above science. Ms. Palin has made it clear through her actions that she is unwilling to do even as much as the Bush administration to address the impacts of global warming. Her most recent effort has been to sue the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to remove the polar bear from the endangered species list, putting Big Oil before sound science. As unbelievable as this may sound, this actually puts her to the right of the Bush administration.
"This is Senator McCain's first significant choice in building his executive team and it's a bad one. It has to raise serious doubts in the minds of voters about John McCain's commitment to conservation, to addressing the impacts of global warming and to ensuring our country ends its dependency on oil."
But she ticks all the boxes for steriotypical republican voters.
5 children, against abortion, one of the kids in Iraq, member of the NRA, husband works in the oil fields of Allaska. It has really taken away from Obama's thunder.
You have heard the soundbites where female Dem voters say they might vote for McCain now that Hilary is out. Now they have someone they can vote for!!!!
It does remove the inexperience issue from the table though.
Leaving aside environmental issues, I do like the fact that she has stood up to corruption and I couldn't care less about her NRA membership, but I get very uncomfortable when I see the likes of James Dobson and Ralph Reed celebrating a VP pick like they are today. I could probably live with a McCain victory, but I don't think I could ever find common cause with the religious right in terms of voting. Its Obama for me now!
Fair play to the Republicans....they are doing their very best to put a good face on this....whatever you can say about them, they are very good at showing a united front...but I have no doubt whatsoever that there are many high ranking and grass roots Republicans who would just love to kill John McCain right now...
He really has been very effective in the past few weeks of casting doubts about Obama's experience....He has just negated all those gains....A very minimal number of disgruntled Hillary voters will vote for Palin....she is the polar opposite of Hillary
I never thought this was McCains election to throw away....it was always going to be close....But I believe he lost it today...As recently as July Palin said to a CNBC analyst "What exactly does the Vice President do every day"!!!!!!!!!!! I don't think she'll have to worry about learning...
I wonder what was in Romney and Pawlenty's closets that made him pass over them....Barack Obama will be the next President....Whoever was going to shovel Stew's driveway better head to Home Depot...
The right-wingers on Fox News are almost literally having a w**k live on air talking about Palin! :D
It is rather amusing now though that the inexperience issue doesn't matter one bit any more! She probably has a better chance than most of ascending to the presidency given McCain's age and previous health issues.
Apologies to DrinkingHarp....I misread your statement about shovelling Stew's driveway... I'd be very surprised if you have to make that trip...
Quote from: Boynegael on August 30, 2008, 01:58:34 AM
Apologies to DrinkingHarp....I misread your statement about shovelling Stew's driveway... I'd be very surprised if you have to make that trip...
It's only a 5 hour drive, maybe 6 in the snow, but I have a nice big shovel set aside which hopefully won't have to touch the cheeseheads drive.
picking a woman was the ace in mccains pack but only time will tell if he picked the right one. the object of the excerise should have been to connect with hillarys voters but its hard to see how palins going to do that. my money is on obama now for what its worth...
Yeah totally agree this is his big shot at getting the Hillary vote - surprising but will either be a master stroke or a disaster. I see she is under investigation in Alaska about the firing of her brother in law.
I think alot of women might see this as patronising as its clear what hes attempting to do and she isnt anywhere near the politician that Hillary is - alot depends on her performance. Any Hillary supporters that vote for McCain cant be Democrats in the first place so not sure how many she can win over.
Hard to pick a winner here - the swing voters in the States seem to be a shrinking demographic, the country is evenly split.
QuoteThe right-wingers on Fox News are almost literally having a w**k live on air talking about Palin! Cheesy
Did you not happen to catch Brian Williams and Tom Brokaw tugging on each other over the Messiah's speech On
Thurs evening J? Lets keep a little perspective here, are they any less cringeworthy than left-wingers at MSNBC :o
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 30, 2008, 03:24:02 PM
QuoteThe right-wingers on Fox News are almost literally having a w**k live on air talking about Palin! Cheesy
Did you not happen to catch Brian Williams and Tom Brokaw tugging on each other over the Messiah's speech On
Thurs evening J? Lets keep a little perspective here, are they any less cringeworthy than left-wingers at MSNBC :o
They're all the same, which is why it is essential that you do not get your news from any one source. I guarantee you that Williams and Brokaw will be gushing over McCain and Palin's speeches too, unless they completely screw them up. Olberman will not be gushing though! :D
Quote from: saffron on August 30, 2008, 12:08:51 PM
Yeah totally agree this is his big shot at getting the Hillary vote - surprising but will either be a master stroke or a disaster. I see she is under investigation in Alaska about the firing of her brother in law.
I think alot of women might see this as patronising as its clear what hes attempting to do and she isnt anywhere near the politician that Hillary is - alot depends on her performance. Any Hillary supporters that vote for McCain cant be Democrats in the first place so not sure how many she can win over.
Hard to pick a winner here - the swing voters in the States seem to be a shrinking demographic, the country is evenly split.
That is a non starter apparently, McCain is too wily a campaigner to take a candidate that could damage his candidacy due to ethical concerns.
A strange choice I think, I see where McCain is going with his VP pick but it is one hell of a gamble.
Obama is a wonderful orator, but there is no way in hell he could do half of what he says he will do, economically it is just not feasable. McCain will also do the same thing, the difference is however that Obama is running on a platform of change, away from the tired old Washington ways, his speach confirms that he is just like the rest of them, he over promises and will under deliver.
I have a long, wide driveway, I have a nice comfortable tractor that removes snow in 20 minutes, that said when McCain wins I think I would like to see that man do the job manually, it would only take about three hours and that would be suitable penance for doubting the Republicians. ;)
I cant see to many of Hilary's supporters voting for Palin, she is to far to the right for any female Democrat to support Palin. The big issue for most female Hillary supporters would be the pro choice issue, so voting with the McCain/Palin ticket just because Palin is on the ticket would not be in their best interests at all.
A few good lines from An Spailpin on it. Intersting his take on the experience of Palin versus Obama
http://spailpin.blogspot.com/ (http://spailpin.blogspot.com/)
Quote from: FL/MAYO on August 30, 2008, 06:43:57 PM
I cant see to many of Hilary's supporters voting for Palin, she is to far to the right for any female Democrat to support Palin. The big issue for most female Hillary supporters would be the pro choice issue, so voting with the McCain/Palin ticket just because Palin is on the ticket would not be in their best interests at all.
There is a deep rift among Billory's supporters after the bloodbath she had with Obama, some of her supporters will vote against him because of the fact that they are bitter about her losing the primary to him. Given her luke warm endorsement of Obama I think that will send message to the fence sitters on the democrat side of things and this will benefit McCain greatly.
The Republicans are a more cohesive party right now, I feel strongly that the democrats have this election won if they can unite under Obama, that said no amount of pomp and ceremony at the convention can hide the rifts that exist among their ranks. If they come together they should win this election, if they dont they will lose it, it is that simple.
The NRA & and the Religious right willdo their bit to keep a republician in office, the key to this election is for the democrats to unite, Hillary hardly helped the cause, we have interesting times ahead.
I don't know... I'm a bit pessimistic by nature anyway, but this Palin thing seems to have really energized the right wing. This is going to be a massive test for Obama. I just hope he has it in him to hit back at the Republican attack dogs. The enthusiasm of the religious right for this candidacy really has me worried that we're heading for a continuation of the Bush years. Say hello to drilling and mining and development of every seashore and forest and wilderness area possible, more sabre-rattling and perhaps even invasions in the middle east, more politicizing of supposedly non-political sections of the civil service, more government spying, no solutions to healthcare issues and on and on.
the republicans have made a glorious c**k up. do they think all women are idiots and that they will vote for someone just because theyre a female, especially when hillary voters have little in common with this conservative nut. should mc cain win and then die, god help the world when the VP candidate takes over
Quote from: stew on August 30, 2008, 07:44:03 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on August 30, 2008, 06:43:57 PM
I cant see to many of Hilary's supporters voting for Palin, she is to far to the right for any female Democrat to support Palin. The big issue for most female Hillary supporters would be the pro choice issue, so voting with the McCain/Palin ticket just because Palin is on the ticket would not be in their best interests at all.
There is a deep rift among Billory's supporters after the bloodbath she had with Obama, some of her supporters will vote against him because of the fact that they are bitter about her losing the primary to him. Given her luke warm endorsement of Obama I think that will send message to the fence sitters on the democrat side of things and this will benefit McCain greatly.
The Republicans are a more cohesive party right now, I feel strongly that the democrats have this election won if they can unite under Obama, that said no amount of pomp and ceremony at the convention can hide the rifts that exist among their ranks. If they come together they should win this election, if they dont they will lose it, it is that simple.
The NRA & and the Religious right willdo their bit to keep a republician in office, the key to this election is for the democrats to unite, Hillary hardly helped the cause, we have interesting times ahead.
Some Hillary supporters might go with McCain but most will not, from what I saw of the convention Obama got what he was asking for from the Clinton's. Its funny watching the different channels over here, if you watch Fox they say there is a big split in the Democratic party and Palin is a great pick, if you watch MSNBC the Democratic party is very united with a big endorsement from the Clinton's and Palin is a crazy pick by McCain (met her once and one phone call with her before his decision). Stew, I agree it will be an interesting 60 days ahead, the debates will be fun.
Quote from: dodgy umpire on August 30, 2008, 08:33:10 PM
the republicans have made a glorious c**k up. do they think all women are idiots and that they will vote for someone just because theyre a female, especially when hillary voters have little in common with this conservative nut. should mc cain win and then die, god help the world when the VP candidate takes over
This conservative nut shares an awful lot in common with large swathes of American society. Granted, most of those people are Republicans anyway, but they were unenthusiastic about McCain up to this point, even though most of them probably would have voted for him if only to stop Obama. The fact that, in addition to her conservative credentials, she has some form in fighting corruption, especially within her own party, is a definite plus in appealling to blue-collar democrats. Each side is guaranteed about 47-48% of the electorate in terms of the popular vote, so McCain is not targeting a huge group. If he can energize the religious right and attract at least some portion of the disgruntled Hillary vote, he's got a great chance.
I agree with your last line!
No wonder MCCain has chosen Sarah Palin as his Palin as his running mate.
Word MILF springs to mind!
Any betting on the elections?
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/02/palin-ireland-stopover/ (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/02/palin-ireland-stopover/)
QuoteLast week, Politico's Ben Smith asked the McCain campaign if Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK) — who was first issued a U.S. passport in 2007 — had ever traveled abroad. A spokeswoman for Palin said the Alaska governor had been to Germany and Kuwait in 2007 and had visited one other country, Ireland. It turns out that the Ireland trip was just a refueling stopover on the way to Europe and the Middle East. But she has been to Canada, another campaign spokesman noted.
I wonder was the Germany stop a fuelling stop also given that that is the usual route of troops to the Middle East?
In that case she would have been out of the country twice, once to Canada and once on a military trip.
That would be like me saying I should be minister for Foreign affairs as I've been to the Isle of Mann and was once on the LE Eithne near a sand dune.
So what did everyone think of the speech last night?
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 04, 2008, 06:00:42 PM
So what did everyone think of the speech last night?
Sounded like a defensive speech.
Sounded more offensive than defensive to me.
Headline of the day (from It Says In The Papers) - Redneck Boyfriend Steps Into The Spotlight.
What kind of people are these, who expose their (and others') families to the voracious media for the sake of their own careers?
The Daily show hit the target again last night. ;D
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card)
Quote from: Hardy on September 04, 2008, 07:44:48 PM
Sounded more offensive than defensive to me.
Headline of the day (from It Says In The Papers) - Redneck Boyfriend Steps Into The Spotlight.
What kind of people are these, who expose their (and others') families to the voracious media for the sake of their own careers?
The type who's need to look good in public is more important than any family crisis.
The scary thing that I heard from Ms Palin speech was when she went on about being a Hockey Mom. Cue wild respone from the delegates.
Whats the difference between a Hockey Mom and a Pitbull? A Hockey Mom wears lipstick!!
Are Pitbulls a common breed in the states?
they are - and I'd say that's an accurate enough description
Hockey Moms can be downright scary
This woman is a bit scary. Hopefully, if he gets elected, McCain sidelines her and reverts back to his old relatively moderate self. The last thing we need in the states is more christian whackjobs clutching the reins of power.
Did I read somewhere that she's in favour of teaching both evolution and creationism side by side? :'(
QuoteThe last thing we need in the states is more christian whackjobs clutching the reins of power.
As opposed to?
QuoteSo what did everyone think of the speech last night?
Fantastic speech especially considering some twit
inadvertently ::) turned her teleprompter off mid speech,
not that you'd have noticed it mind you, calm, collected and flawless IMO.
I'm not so sure that there aren't a lot of Billary die hards casting an eye in her direction, I work with a bunch of
them and it was quare funny today to hear them trying to find a way to admit liking her without actually saying it :D
There'll be some craic for the next couple of months here in the great liberal state that is California ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 05, 2008, 01:40:52 AM
QuoteThe last thing we need in the states is more christian whackjobs clutching the reins of power.
As opposed to?
As to opposed to Obama/Biden or even McCain himself. I'd have seriously considered giving McCain my vote had he gone with Joe Lieberman (as he allegedly wanted to) instead of choosing Palin to win over the right wing base. He ain't getting it now. The Democrats have plenty of faults, but the christian right section of the Republican party makes me want to vomit. Its sad that McCain (whom they slimed so grotesquely in 2000) has decided he needs them.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 05, 2008, 01:40:52 AM
QuoteSo what did everyone think of the speech last night?
Fantastic speech especially considering some twit inadvertently ::) turned her teleprompter off mid speech,
not that you'd have noticed it mind you, calm, collected and flawless IMO.
I'm not so sure that there aren't a lot of Billary die hards casting an eye in her direction, I work with a bunch of
them and it was quare funny today to hear them trying to find a way to admit liking her without actually saying it :D
There'll be some craic for the next couple of months here in the great liberal state that is California ;)
I think they have a great chance of winning this. The Republicans are always so much more organized and coherent and that little bit better at the negative crap, plus Palin appeals to a big section of the US population. Its getting depressing. All we need now is another anti-gay marriage campaign to get the fundies out in force in November.
Saw a McCain ad a few minutes ago BTW. He reckons a Democratic victory will mean big deficits, out-of-control spending and no balanced budgets. Has he been asleep for the last eight years?
Quote from: stephenite on September 05, 2008, 01:09:38 AM
Did I read somewhere that she's in favour of teaching both evolution and creationism side by side? :'(
She answered to that effect in a debate in the governor's campaign in Alaska.
Apparently the troops in the Middle East are doing god's work too.
Scary woman.
Jon Stewart on the consistency of the Republicans on experience and gender in Democratic and GOP candidates....
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card)
The Rove one is hilarious, especially as his comments on Tim Kaine came all of one month ago! :D
Look for that consistency as well with O'Reilly's treatment of Britney Spears sister's pregnancy and her parents with his opinion on Palin and her family!
(http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/09/04/palin.jpg)
They didn't just use images/video of the 9/11 attacks in a propaganda video at the RNC earlier tonight, did they?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WVtZGczFdpg&eurl=http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=9%2F11+convention&emb=0&aq=f
As to opposed to Obama/Biden or even McCain himself. I'd have seriously considered giving McCain my vote had he gone with Joe Lieberman (as he allegedly wanted to) instead of choosing Palin to win over the right wing base. He ain't getting it now. The Democrats have plenty of faults, but the christian right section of the Republican party makes me want to vomit. Its sad that McCain (whom they slimed so grotesquely in 2000) has decided he needs them.
[/quote]
I agree completely with this sentiment.....I said previously on this thread, that McCain has the ability to reach across the aisle...(failed immigration bill). I noticed that any mention of immigration was conspicuously absent in his speech tonight... However, his choice of Sarah Palin as VP is abhorrent to me personally....I think it proves that the Republican Party is still owned by the extreme right wing of the party...I believe if he had have picked ANYONE ELSE (with the exception of Rudi (Barf) Guliani), he would have had a great chance to win this...My vote is for Obama, absolutely no doubt in my mind..
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 05, 2008, 04:41:26 AM
They didn't just use images/video of the 9/11 attacks in a propaganda video at the RNC earlier tonight, did they?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WVtZGczFdpg&eurl=http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=9%2F11+convention&emb=0&aq=f
Expect the terror threat level to go up to orange or even red in the final week of October.
Quote from: Boynegael on September 05, 2008, 04:45:20 AM
Quote
As to opposed to Obama/Biden or even McCain himself. I'd have seriously considered giving McCain my vote had he gone with Joe Lieberman (as he allegedly wanted to) instead of choosing Palin to win over the right wing base. He ain't getting it now. The Democrats have plenty of faults, but the christian right section of the Republican party makes me want to vomit. Its sad that McCain (whom they slimed so grotesquely in 2000) has decided he needs them.
I agree completely with this sentiment.....I said previously on this thread, that McCain has the ability to reach across the aisle...(failed immigration bill). I noticed that any mention of immigration was conspicuously absent in his speech tonight... However, his choice of Sarah Palin as VP is abhorrent to me personally....I think it proves that the Republican Party is still owned by the extreme right wing of the party...I believe if he had have picked ANYONE ELSE (with the exception of Rudi (Barf) Guliani), he would have had a great chance to win this...My vote is for Obama, absolutely no doubt in my mind..
We will live in hope, but irrelevancies like "god, guns and gays" has won the day for the republicans before. Sarah Palin ticks all the boxes for the so-called "middle" or "real" Americans (isn't it funny how approximately half of the electorate doesn't vote in line with these real Americans?) and is literally becoming a superstar. Do not underestimate her.
Oh believe me, I don't underestimate her at all...Like yourself and half the electorate....I live in Hope.
I hope Obama doesnt get in, he's a slimy piece of work. I'm not a fan of the republican party but god help us if that egomaniac gets into power, his agenda is to try rebalance the distribution of wealth to the detriment of industry, which in turn means more job losses back in the old sod. As if it wasnt bad enough there now.
At least McCain is looking at trying to revitalise the economy (well, promised anyhow), Obamas ideas are a flashback to the days of robin hood...or Zimbabwe in modern times. Very scary.
They're all liars, its trying to find the one who might have some semblance of truth behind them. A bt like home really...
QuoteObamas ideas are a flashback to the days of robin hood...or Zimbabwe in modern times. Very scary.
Jesus - If this is the level of thinking out there it'll be great craic till November
How with all the security was he heckled during his speech ?
Quote from: Declan on September 05, 2008, 07:40:16 AM
QuoteObamas ideas are a flashback to the days of robin hood...or Zimbabwe in modern times. Very scary.
Jesus - If this is the level of thinking out there it'll be great craic till November
You should listen to Obama's pastor and his sermons to get the real scoop on what the thinking is. Look up reverend jeremiah wright. Eventually Obama had to disown him as his sermons became headline news on tv and were damaging his campaign.
QuoteYou should listen to Obama's pastor and his sermons to get the real scoop on what the thinking is
Well aware of him just as I am of Palin's "pastor's" views. Thought the best comment i've heard so far came from Newt Gingrich who said if the election was going to be about usual politics everyone knows that Obama and Biden would win.
Quote from: Declan on September 05, 2008, 08:49:05 AM
QuoteYou should listen to Obama's pastor and his sermons to get the real scoop on what the thinking is
Well aware of him just as I am of Palin's "pastor's" views. Thought the best comment i've heard so far came from Newt Gingrich who said if the election was going to be about usual politics everyone knows that Obama and Biden would win.
It's like watching the 2008 Champions League Final, you want both of them to lose...
I'm still in a state of shock at McCain's VP choice. America is some place.
... and possessor of nuclear weapons. And of course the only country ever to have used them.
Imagine that crazy gun woman in charge of the red button.
QuoteImagine that crazy gun woman in charge of the red button.
:D simply because she's a member of the NRA. Ba :D
CNN are hiring people with that type thought process ::)
Quote from: carribbear on September 05, 2008, 08:25:33 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 05, 2008, 07:40:16 AM
QuoteObamas ideas are a flashback to the days of robin hood...or Zimbabwe in modern times. Very scary.
Jesus - If this is the level of thinking out there it'll be great craic till November
You should listen to Obama's pastor and his sermons to get the real scoop on what the thinking is. Look up reverend jeremiah wright. Eventually Obama had to disown him as his sermons became headline news on tv and were damaging his campaign.
Is is possible to attend a service and not agree with everything, or even to leave afterwards with your ability to think for yourself intact?
Come to think of it this is American politics we are talking about. Thinking is is something some one else does for you.
QuoteIs is possible to attend a service and not agree with everything, or even to leave afterwards with your ability to think for yourself intact?
One could argue that but then couple it with his association with Mr. Bill Ayers and co and it does give it a little more credence
to questioning his under lying beliefs. :o
Yes, Obama is indeed the boogey-man. Well spotted Tyrones Own. ::)
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 05, 2008, 08:54:55 PM
Yes, Obama is indeed the boogey-man. Well spotted Tyrones Own. ::)
Thank you....and this one line condesending retort that adds absolutely nothing to
the discussion reveals the obviously educated on the subject, literary genius that you are Seany ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 05, 2008, 06:05:39 PM
QuoteIs is possible to attend a service and not agree with everything, or even to leave afterwards with your ability to think for yourself intact?
One could argue that but then couple it with his association with Mr. Bill Ayers and co and it does give it a little more credence
to questioning his under lying beliefs. :o
How is Fox News these days?
Any association with Bill Ayers is tenuos at best and trying to intimate they have similar views is just ridiculous. Typical scaremongering. I'm fully aware of the Rev Wright controvery and the mastery with which Obama handled it.
Obviously you are not convinced so please enlighten me - what are these "underlying beliefs" that Obama is keeping secret?
QuoteHow is Fox News these days?
Tut Tut...*shakes head* OK Fox news is to blame, seems to be the way out of a lot of things nowadays ::)
where do ye boys get your factual news anyway? maybe I too could see the light :-\
QuoteAny association with Bill Ayers is tenuos at best and trying to intimate they have similar views is just ridiculous. Typical scaremongering
Where or when did i mention comparing views, my point is that to have
anything at all to do with such a person speaks volumes for
a man running for President, well to me anyway, someone who's actually willing and able to think for myself.
Did any of ye even bother to research they're dealings or would that not suit the agenda that evidently exists on this board :-X
QuoteI'm fully aware of the Rev Wright controvery and the mastery with which Obama handled it
You're joking right? are you that naive to think that through Obama's
mastery we've heard the last of Wright or Ayers for that matter.
Sure he condoned and stood by him for a number of weeks till he finally realized that the great Rev was simply not going to stop using Obama as a soap
box from which to spout his hatred for this country, then and only then did Obama disassociate himself from it.... surely his judgement comes into play
here in that after years of sitting in a pew listening to this bile that should Wright surface, Obama would have to nip it in the bud immediately... this simply wasn't the case!
I hope thats not the mastery that you speak of :D.
The only difference in Wright and Ayers was that The Rev only talked about what should be done... Ayers actually did it
then regretted that they didn't do enough :o .....Nice fella alright >:(
Quotewhat are these "underlying beliefs" that Obama is keeping secret?
Read above paragraph....for a start anyway, I don't have the time to be educating you lads
turn off CNN and try to become aware of what's actually going on around you ;)
I'll ask again as it's pertinent to my understanding of all views, please do fill me in to where you
boys get your news and facts?
Quote from: carribbear on September 05, 2008, 08:25:33 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 05, 2008, 07:40:16 AM
QuoteObamas ideas are a flashback to the days of robin hood...or Zimbabwe in modern times. Very scary.
Jesus - If this is the level of thinking out there it'll be great craic till November
You should listen to Obama's pastor and his sermons to get the real scoop on what the thinking is. Look up reverend jeremiah wright. Eventually Obama had to disown him as his sermons became headline news on tv and were damaging his campaign.
Unfortunately the Republicans will never distance themselves from the Christian Right. In fact most of them are the Christian Right. McCain sought the endorsement of Rev Hagee whose anti-Catholicism makes Ian Paisley in his heyday look like a moderate. Many of the Christian Right also support Israel's war against the Arab world in the hopes that it will speed up the Day of Judgement. Total nutcases. Rev Wright on the otherhand spoke out against oppression, slavery, nuclear weapons, the treatment of Palestine. Much of what he said was on the button.
QuoteMany of the Christian Right also support Israel's war against the Arab world in the hopes that it will speed up the Day of Judgement.
???
QuoteMuch of what he said was on the button.
The man is an anti American out and out racist Turlough, now if that's the kind of ideal or rhetoric that floats your
boat well then you're entitled to it, just don't knock some of us "
Christian Righters" for thinking there's no place for it
this day and age, nor no place for a man running for the highest office to be in anyway associated with it.
Just my opinion of course, which i am entitled to just as you are.. as clearly stated above.
Once I hear creationism and the need for it to be taught in schools, I become very frightened. If you think someone who believes that is fit for high office than I am equally as frightened and fearful for the future of the world, these people are stark raving f**king insane, loo las, seriously, how are these people not sectioned?
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2008, 02:37:22 AM
QuoteMany of the Christian Right also support Israel's war against the Arab world in the hopes that it will speed up the Day of Judgement.
???
The twisted belief by the Christian Right that the destruction of Israel will be Armagedoon, and herald the day of judgement. These lunatics have got their tongues hanging out waiting to be admitted into Heaven while the rest will be "left behind".
QuoteMuch of what he said was on the button.
The man is an anti American out and out racist Turlough, now if that's the kind of ideal or rhetoric that floats your
boat well then you're entitled to it, just don't knock some of us "
Christian Righters" for thinking there's no place for it
this day and age, nor no place for a man running for the highest office to be in anyway associated with it.
Just my opinion of course, which i am entitled to just as you are.. as clearly stated above.
[/quote]
John McCain sought the endorsement of Rev Hagee, despite his Anti-Catholic and Anti-semetic bile. I saw some clips of the Republican convention and folks like Mitt Romney seem to be filled with pure hatred and the whole crowd looked like a shocking shower of fanatics with their "Drill baby Drill" signs. Rev Wright on the otherhand spoke more about injustices and was correct about many things but those points were lost in the attempts to smear Obama by his association with the church. I find the Christian Right/Republican stuff much worse as it's always expressed with a holier than thou sickliness. That combination of relgious fundamentalism, oil and xenophobia is the reason the world is screwed up today. Tis a pity we couldn't just drill a big hole and throw the lot of them into it.
QuoteJohn McCain sought the endorsement of Rev Hagee, despite his Anti-Catholic and Anti-semetic bile. I saw some clips of the Republican convention and folks like Mitt Romney seem to be filled with pure hatred and the whole crowd looked like a shocking shower of fanatics with their "Drill baby Drill" signs.
Taken word for word out of Cenk Uygur's
blog, congratulations ::) tell me this isn't where you boy's are going fact finding
to put forth these compelling arguments :D
Look lads, you're actually showing weakness in being overcome with frustration at the commotion surrounding Palin,
Like her or not, she's the hottest ticket in town with everyone wanting a piece of her, with the exception of course
being Oprah saying that she didn't want to be seen to be taking sides, even though she was perched up balling her eye's
out during Obama's speech... racism perhaps, or do I have to be black to use that term ::)
McCain has also closed the gap in the polls since she came on board, maybe that's not sitting too well with some of you either ;D
QuoteTis a pity we couldn't just drill a big hole and throw the lot of them into it.
I agree but Democrats included cause last i checked they have control of the house....... we'll have to wait til they get back from vacation though ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2008, 07:24:14 AM
QuoteJohn McCain sought the endorsement of Rev Hagee, despite his Anti-Catholic and Anti-semetic bile. I saw some clips of the Republican convention and folks like Mitt Romney seem to be filled with pure hatred and the whole crowd looked like a shocking shower of fanatics with their "Drill baby Drill" signs.
Taken word for word out of Cenk Uygur's blog, congratulations ::) tell me this isn't where you boy's are going fact finding
to put forth these compelling arguments :D
Look lads, you're actually showing weakness in being overcome with frustration at the commotion surrounding Palin,
Like her or not, she's the hottest ticket in town with everyone wanting a piece of her, with the exception of course
being Oprah saying that she didn't want to be seen to be taking sides, even though she was perched up balling her eye's
out during Obama's speech... racism perhaps, or do I have to be black to use that term ::)
McCain has also closed the gap in the polls since she came on board, maybe that's not sitting too well with some of you either ;D
QuoteTis a pity we couldn't just drill a big hole and throw the lot of them into it.
I agree but Democrats included cause last i checked they have control of the house....... we'll have to wait til they get back from vacation though ::)
looks wise maybe, otherwise all she is doing is adding a bit of life to the republican ticket after john mc cain put the nation to sleep with his speech. also to claim oprah is being racist in not having her on her show is farfetched to say the least
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 05, 2008, 05:56:31 PM
QuoteImagine that crazy gun woman in charge of the red button.
:D simply because she's a member of the NRA. Ba :D
CNN are hiring people with that type thought process ::)
Crazy because of the beliefs she espouses. Crazy is one of the mildest descriptions I can think of for the belief that creationism should taught as science.
Gun woman because she's in the NRA. Though that alone might be enough to classify her as crazy, given the beliefs THEY espouse.
Before anybody decides which moronic puppet, Democrat or Republican they are going to vote for, get some education from the following websites, a few hundred thousand downloadable pages of facts:
http://www.americandeception.com (http://www.americandeception.com)
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com (http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com)
Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt worked for the first Reagan administration but decided to change from the easier life of deception to that of putting the American people first, A TRUE AMERICAN HERO.
I trust that the likes of J70 will thoroughly check out these sites, regrettably others will not even click on the links.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2008, 07:24:14 AM
QuoteJohn McCain sought the endorsement of Rev Hagee, despite his Anti-Catholic and Anti-semetic bile. I saw some clips of the Republican convention and folks like Mitt Romney seem to be filled with pure hatred and the whole crowd looked like a shocking shower of fanatics with their "Drill baby Drill" signs.
Taken word for word out of Cenk Uygur's blog, congratulations ::) tell me this isn't where you boy's are going fact finding
to put forth these compelling arguments :D
Look lads, you're actually showing weakness in being overcome with frustration at the commotion surrounding Palin,
Have no clue who Cenk Uygur is so stop acting the amadan. Secondly I never mentioned Palin. No nothing about her. It's the republican party that is seeking another term. I know enough about the positions of the Republican party and the fundamentialism of the Christian Right that swells its ranks. Hagee is a drop in the ocean of religious nuts supporting the red ticket. They espouse Judgement Day with the same zeal they expouse creationism. They desire a big flame up in the middle East to speed up their entry into heaven. Sick hardly even describes them.
Quotelooks wise maybe, otherwise all she is doing is adding a bit of life to the republican ticket after john mc cain put the nation to sleep with his speech.
Adding a bit of life would be an understatement and like the rest, for obvious reasons you feel the need to down play the interest
and commotion surrounding her.
As for McCain's speech, sleep worthy and all as you believe it was, he enjoyed bigger numbers tuning in than Obama did :P
Quotealso to claim oprah is being racist in not having her on her show is farfetched to say the least
Really... How so?
QuoteCrazy because of the beliefs she espouses. Crazy is one of the mildest descriptions I can think of for the belief that creationism should taught as science.
Could you by chance throw a link up for us that clearly states that she
wants creationism taught as science,
all i can find is that when pressed on the issue she said and i quote "teach both, there shouldn't be a prohibition
for healthy debates amongst our children in schools that may hold alternative views"
I'm not saying for a minute that she doesn't, I just can't find evidence of it other than the left wing blogs
hammering on it
QuoteHave no clue who Cenk Uygur is so stop acting the amadan.
Does the Huffington post ring a bell?
QuoteThey espouse Judgement Day with the same zeal they expouse creationism. They desire a big flame up in the middle East to speed up their entry into heaven. Sick hardly even describes them.
That's the third time you mentioned this and it only gets more laughable each time,
this kind of thinking or rhetoric reminds me of the lad you'd see standing on a milk crate
in the city centre with the two lumps of plywood around his neck spouting doomsday
nonsense years ago :D
Maybe you should find a way to vent that pent up anger that you carry around....it can't be healthy
Actually no Fionn, I get great craic out of the divide ;)
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 06, 2008, 04:43:15 PM
Is it me or does anyone else find American politics depressing? :-\
Very depressing to see a mother force a shotgun wedding to suit her political image and then march the unfortunate mortified looking teenagers out onto the world stage to reinforce that image. Depressing alright.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2008, 04:55:52 PM
Actually no Fionn, I get great craic out of the divide ;)
There is no divide, as I've stated before, we have one party in the disguise of two and a dog and pony show for the gullible.
QuoteThere is no divide, as I've stated before, we have one party in the disguise of two and a dog and pony show for the gullible
I completely agree with your second point, however, to say there is no divide between Liberal
and conservative views is a tad wide of the mark....especially on here and most times
from lads that have never even been to this country but yet seem to know enough to form very staunch views based on
and thanks to the liberal blogs that they can't get enough of ::)
QuoteVery depressing to see a mother force a shotgun wedding to suit her political image and then march the unfortunate mortified looking teenagers out onto the world stage to reinforce that image.
Can I ask where you read that she
forced her daughter into a shotgun wedding,
and maybe I'm mistaken but weren't McCain's kids there too, did i also see Obama's kids as well
as Biden's kids being marched on to the stage at their convention ::)
I do know you can do better than that Muppet
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2008, 06:02:13 PM
QuoteThere is no divide, as I've stated before, we have one party in the disguise of two and a dog and pony show for the gullible
I completely agree with your second point, however, to say there is no divide between Liberal
and conservative views is a tad wide of the mark....especially on here and most times
from lads that have never even been to this country but yet seem to know enough to form very staunch views based on
and thanks to the liberal blogs that they can't get enough of ::)
QuoteVery depressing to see a mother force a shotgun wedding to suit her political image and then march the unfortunate mortified looking teenagers out onto the world stage to reinforce that image.
Can I ask where you read that she forced her daughter into a shotgun wedding,
and maybe I'm mistaken but weren't McCain's kids there too, did i also see Obama's kids as well
as Biden's kids being marched on to the stage at their convention ::)
I do know you can do better than that Muppet
No need. Mother does that to her pregnant 17 year old daughter. >:(
Let's the media off the hook too as they should have never touched the story but now Mammy is using it as a trophy.
QuoteNo need. Mother does that to her pregnant 17 year old daughter.
You've lost me here, does what to her 17 yr old daughter ???
I do agree that the media should never have touched it but they couldn't help
themselves in a moment of panic trying to score points which did indeed backfire on them
and i think Mammy is quite justified to use it as a stick to beat them with.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2008, 06:02:13 PM
I completely agree with your second point, however, to say there is no divide between Liberal
and conservative views is a tad wide of the mark....especially on here and most times
from lads that have never even been to this country but yet seem to know enough to form very staunch views based on
and thanks to the liberal blogs that they can't get enough of ::)
Sure there is a difference between liberal and conservative viewpoints when it comes to the general public. Politicians are a different story, both George W Bush and McCain are more liberal than conservative. Politicians in favour of Agenda 21 are neither pro life nor anti war. Democrats and Republicans over and over again have proved that they are for gun control, violating the 2nd Amendment. For them guns should only be in the hands of government and not the people. Gun control worked well for communist governments which slaughtered millions in Russia, Poland, China, Latvia etc. The Posse Commitatus Act of June 18, 1878 was violated at Ruby Ridge, Waco, Kent State, Ludlow, Lattimer, New Orleans and today in virtually every major US city. There will be no change no matter who gets into power. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2008, 04:39:06 PM
QuoteHave no clue who Cenk Uygur is so stop acting the amadan.
Does the Huffington post ring a bell?
QuoteThey espouse Judgement Day with the same zeal they expouse creationism. They desire a big flame up in the middle East to speed up their entry into heaven. Sick hardly even describes them.
That's the third time you mentioned this and it only gets more laughable each time,
this kind of thinking or rhetoric reminds me of the lad you'd see standing on a milk crate
in the city centre with the two lumps of plywood around his neck spouting doomsday
nonsense years ago :D
Maybe you should find a way to vent that pent up anger that you carry around....it can't be healthy
It is laughable. It is Sad too. But this rhetoric is coming from the Christian Right and Republican party. Are you genuinely missing the point or purposely sparing yourself the labor of thought. There's plenty of videos on YouTube from Hagee talking about the End of Days and linking it to the Middle East because he's read the signs in the bible. Here's a few for starters talking to the sympathetic rightwing nut Glenn Beck. McCain actively sought the endorsement of this dangerous clown and refused for a long time to disassociate himself from the crawthumper. Then again, why would he want to when the majority of his party believe in this crap. This stuff is good auld crack when it's the plot of The Omen films but when psychos misinterpret it as reality and use it to warmonger it is pure twisted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOsYSwNrlBo&feature=related
QuoteBut this rhetoric is coming from the Christian Right and Republican party
I'm not so sure that Hagee is on the payroll as a spokesperson for the Republicans :-\
Just as a side note, am I understanding you correctly that in your opinion, Iran threatening to wipe Israel
off the face of the earth is simply something drummed up by the "war mongering" Hagee and the Republican party, that there
is absolutely no intent to bring about such an event by Ahmadinejad or any other Muslim extremist for that matter.
....maybe Bush paid him to say it, or better still, he didn't actually say it, Fox news simply took it out of context ::)
Keep it coming.... can only be good for you to vent that hatred and anti American sentiment
QuoteSure there is a difference between liberal and conservative viewpoints when it comes to the general public. Politicians are a different story, both George W Bush and McCain are more liberal than conservative. Politicians in favour of Agenda 21 are neither pro life nor anti war. Democrats and Republicans over and over again have proved that they are for gun control, violating the 2nd Amendment. For them guns should only be in the hands of government and not the people. Gun control worked well for communist governments which slaughtered millions in Russia, Poland, China, Latvia etc. The Posse Commitatus Act of June 18, 1878 was violated at Ruby Ridge, Waco, Kent State, Ludlow, Lattimer, New Orleans and today in virtually every major US city. There will be no change no matter who gets into power. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Great Post Seamus.
So, in a nutshell, Muslim fundamentalism justifies Christian fundamentalism, and the 2nd Amendment is somehow the acid test of democracy? Righto. When they get around to making "At Home With The Princes" it should be a top hit...as long as it's scheduled before the time all God fearing right thinking folks ae in bed that is!
The united states of America is a Republic. Not only is the 2nd Amendment non existant, the Constitution and the complete Bill of Rights are also. The (Anti)Patriot Acts and Military Commissions Act 2006 took care of that.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 07, 2008, 01:25:54 AM
QuoteBut this rhetoric is coming from the Christian Right and Republican party
I'm not so sure that Hagee is on the payroll as a spokesperson for the Republicans :-\
Hagee may not be on the Republican payroll, but he and his fellow travellers play a massive roll in Republican politics. There are some issues I agree with Republicans on, but as long as they kowtow to the demands of the religious right, I will never vote for them. How the hell any sensible person can find common ground with people like Bob Jones III, Ralph Reed, Ann Coulter and the rest of the them is beyond me. They are, for the most part, the American equivalent of the DUP, except that some fiscal libertartians/foreign policy hawks put up with all of the superstition and mysticism and intolerance in order to get some of their desired work done. The two-party system is a disaster in this regard.
Quotehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/democrats/2706939/US-elections-MSNBC-sidelines-presenters-Chris-Matthews-and-Keith-Olbermann.html
This can't be ..... is Fox news behind this :o Surely most of you here would agree
there's no Liberal bias in our main stream media... ye have been saying so for sometime now ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 06, 2008, 04:20:15 PM
[
As for McCain's speech, sleep worthy and all as you believe it was, he enjoyed bigger numbers tuning in than Obama did :P
do you think this has anything to do with the fact that it was broadcast during half time of the first game of the new NFL season featuring the super bowl champions and their oldest rivals?
Unfortunately with the two party system that's in place in the US, we are pretty much stuck with more of the same. The only shot of having any change here is if Obama is pulling a fast one by toeing party line until he gets into office and then proceeding with his big promises of the early campaign. I also think that whatever way you slice it the VP choice is very important as I believe there is a fair shot that no matter which one wins the VP could get the top job before the end of the first term.
Sarah Palin scares the crap out of me- If McCain dies in his first term I'm moving
I think a Mary Harney figure is needed to keep them in line.
Personally I hate Obama, I think he's a smug, sly, sneaky, horrible character. I also hate Oprah because she thinks she has influence over what america does. I don't like the way this has turned into a racial debate in america - its not about government policy, its about reparations.
At the same time I don't trust the republicans very much, they remind me of Fine Gael in their ways and I don't like them very much either.
I feel sorry for america, you are getting a very raw deal. The only reason I would think the republicans in government would be a better bet is that they might look to stimulate the economy, I have not heard the same ideas from the democrat side. I don't think a lot of democrats are happy with their nomination.
Clinton vs Guiliani would have been a better choice.
QuoteUnfortunately with the two party system that's in place in the US, we are pretty much stuck with more of the same. The only shot of having any change here is if Obama is pulling a fast one by toeing party line until he gets into office and then proceeding with his big promises of the early campaign.
This word change has been fairly well exhausted at this stage, look no further than the approval rating
for how they've ran the senate into the ground, there was a familiar ring to the rhetoric of change from
Republican ways on their way to winning it at the time too...... two years later ::)....Yep just as i thought.
Thought this was quite funny:
Republicans, Stop Calling Obama Elitist
Because the real reason you don't like him is that he's smarter than you.
by Bill Maher
New Rule: Republicans need to stop saying Barack Obama is an elitist, or looks down on rural people, and just admit you don't like him because of something he can't help, something that's a result of the way he was born. Admit it, you're not voting for him because he's smarter than you.
In her acceptance speech, Gov. Sarah Palin accused Obama of using his run for the White House as a "journey of personal discovery" -- this from the lady who just spent 10 minutes of her speech introducing her family -- Track, Trig, Bristol, Piper -- for a minute there I thought she was calling in an airstrike.
Karl Rove described Obama as "the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini, and making snide comments about everyone who passes by." Unlike George Bush, who's the guy at the country club who makes snide comments, and then passes out. Now this characterization, of course, was something Mr. Rove just completely pulled out of his bulbous, gelatinous ass, but remember this is America, a land where people believe anything they hear. One of McCain's ads casts Obama as "the one," implying he thinks he's the Messiah. Good, maybe he can raise McCain from the dead.
It doesn't matter to Karl Rove that his country club characterization is fictitious, it's the role that Obama must play if the party of plutocrats is going to win over the little guy. Over and over at this convention we heard about the new put-upon victim in our society, the person in America, like Sarah Palin, who's constantly mocked because they're from a ... small town! Governor Yup Yup's got 'em all riled up about being disrespected.
Barack Obama can't help it if he's a magna cum laude Harvard grad and you're a Wal-Mart shopper who resurfaces driveways with your brother-in-law. Americans are so narcissistic that our candidates have to be just like us. That's why George Bush is president. And that's where the McCain camp gets its campaign strategy: Paint Obama as cocky and arrogant and wait for America to vote him off, like the black guy in every reality show. A black president? Half of Pennsylvania isn't ready for black quarterbacks. Forget Obama, they think Will Smith needs to be taken down a peg.
And finally: As for "country first," you know who's putting country first? I am, by supporting Obama, because a victory this fall for the McCain-Mooseburger ticket would make my job in the next four years very, very easy.
But sure now that the US is officially nationalising banks isn't the world about to end ;)
http://www.videosift.com/video/Matt-Damon-Actually-Sounding-Smart-On-Palin
Matt Damon calls it like he sees it
McCain should be ashamed of himself after his ridiculous reaction and cynical, dishonest attempt to exploit Obama's "pig on lipstick" comment. I'll bet he wasn't outraged when he used the term himself in a similar context regarding Hillary Clinton's healthcare proposals last year. No doubt, after all this is over, he'll write another book expressing his regret for his and his campaign's conduct in this campaign. sc**bag.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 09, 2008, 01:51:09 AM
Quotehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/democrats/2706939/US-elections-MSNBC-sidelines-presenters-Chris-Matthews-and-Keith-Olbermann.html
This can't be ..... is Fox news behind this :o Surely most of you here would agree
there's no Liberal bias in our main stream media... ye have been saying so for sometime now ::)
Fox News are every bit as mainstream as MSNBC. You'd swear themselves and talk radio are out there desperately trying to reach a tiny number of listeners, vainly trying to get some input. And its funny how you never hear these jibes aimed at the "mainstream" radio stations. ABC's NYC station, WABC, is wall-to-wall right-wing talk shows, except for the conspiracy bullshit on Coast to Coast in the middle of the night and Imus' show in the morning.
The anchors should be impartial though.
What was Palin like in her first "public" interview since being cossetted away for "familiarisation" by the GOP last night. Only heard a clip this morning and she sounded exactly like the caricature that I think she is.
Thought this letter to the Times today was clever:
Madam, - The addition of Mrs Sarah Palin to the US Republican election ticket brings me back a few years to a scenario which may be familiar to your readers.
John Delaney and the Football Assocation of Ireland had the task of picking a management team for a job with significant international exposure. A man in his 70s with noted health problems was chosen along with a young, boundlessly optimistic manager with no relevant experience.
In footballing terms Walsall could have been Alaska. We were told about how the executive experience gained there would blend with the insight of the older man to deliver a world-class experience.
At least in the FAI's case it was only a football team. - Yours, etc,
CATHAL RABBITTE, Bombay, India.
Cathal is an excellent, long-standing contributor to this board as well. That type of pithy observation is typical of him.
Don't bother asking me who he is. The CIA might be doing an OWC and keeping an eye here.
Quote from: carribbear on September 09, 2008, 04:11:35 AM
I think a Mary Harney figure is needed to keep them in line.
Personally I hate Obama, I think he's a smug, sly, sneaky, horrible character. I also hate Oprah because she thinks she has influence over what america does. I don't like the way this has turned into a racial debate in america - its not about government policy, its about reparations.
At the same time I don't trust the republicans very much, they remind me of Fine Gael in their ways and I don't like them very much either.
I feel sorry for america, you are getting a very raw deal. The only reason I would think the republicans in government would be a better bet is that they might look to stimulate the economy, I have not heard the same ideas from the democrat side. I don't think a lot of democrats are happy with their nomination.
Clinton vs Guiliani would have been a better choice.
After eight years they (Republicans) have decimated the economy. Bush depleted the National Surplus and has seen more firms move their businesses out of the country in his terms then ever in the short history of the U.S. IN the meantime he has bow downed to the energy, healthcare, financial and insurance industries to keep their profits skyrocketing to ensure the very wealthy maintain their wealth and tremendous tax breaks.
Although with his brilliant stimulus package of $600 for a single citizen or $1200 for a married couple you would think this would have worked wonders. In the meantime auto fuel went up 23%, food went up 12% (for transportation costs) and then you get taxed on your stimulus check- BRILLIANT.
Now we send billions of aide to the world while there is no health care for 37+% of the citizens, levees not finished in New Orleans, soldiers returning from war without the proper medical treatment or therapy stateside, infrastructure on the highways falling apart (MN bridge), NO alternative energy sources being used in mass and an education system that is laughable.
Will the Democrats help or improve the U.S., I can not say for sure but they could not do worse after the eight years of W.
George Washington was not in favour of a party system in the infancy of the U.S. and now it is blatant why he felt that way.
There will be NO CLOOUREDS IN THE WHITEHOUSE ...................unless they are servants!! ;)
Took me a while to get back to this but I wanted to.
QuoteQuote
I'm fully aware of the Rev Wright controvery and the mastery with which Obama handled it
You're joking right? are you that naive to think that through Obama's mastery we've heard the last of Wright or Ayers for that matter.
Sure he condoned and stood by him for a number of weeks till he finally realized that the great Rev was simply not going to stop using Obama as a soap
box from which to spout his hatred for this country, then and only then did Obama disassociate himself from it.... surely his judgement comes into play
here in that after years of sitting in a pew listening to this bile that should Wright surface, Obama would have to nip it in the bud immediately... this simply wasn't the case!
I hope thats not the mastery that you speak of
No, thats a fanciful and one-eyed distortion of the truth. Here is what I'm talking about:
http://www.barackobama.com/2008/03/18/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_53.php
Quote from: heganboy on September 11, 2008, 02:30:39 PM
http://www.videosift.com/video/Matt-Damon-Actually-Sounding-Smart-On-Palin
Matt Damon calls it like he sees it
Old news in the fact that the putting down of Sarah Palin as having no experience
actually flies in the face of the Democrats in trying to get Obama elected, they have backed off
on this issue in case you hadn't noticed for obvious reasons ;)
Staying with this... Heard a good on the other day in comparing experience, "McCain has fired rockets
from war planes in Vietnam while Obama has fired staples into electric poles in Chicago, you decide"....Classic :D
Quote from: AFS on September 13, 2008, 02:35:46 AM
Matt Damon and Bill Maher actually make a really important observation in the midst of their respective pieces. Its on this obsession that many Americans have with choosing representatives that are 'just like me'.
As Damon says, the fact Palin has been played up as the down to earth, hockey mum from small town USA, who all the average Americans can relate to, is truly absurd. Why do you want some one thats just average in charge? The average American is no where near capable of running their country. This is not a dig at Americans, the average citizen anywhere in the world would not be capable of running their state.
Why are the Republicans having so much success by portraying Obama as a smartarse who thinks he's more intelligent than the average American? Why is this even an argument? FFS your president has the most important job in your country and therefore should be one of the most intelligent people in your country. Why the f**k is it considered a bad thing to have a smart person in charge. More astonishingly, why is it considered a good thing by so many to have an average person in charge?
Because in this particular instance, Obama may be
smart as you put it, some might say articulate
but what comes with it unfortunately is a smug, condescending type mentality with absolutely zero experience
in much of anything let alone presidential material.
And please do stop jumping around to suit what you boy's are reading on the blogs or listening to
from Hollywood actors ::) day in day out..
Is it McCain or Palin that's running for president...make up your minds :D
Quote from: AFS on September 13, 2008, 03:54:12 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 13, 2008, 03:07:52 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 11, 2008, 02:30:39 PM
http://www.videosift.com/video/Matt-Damon-Actually-Sounding-Smart-On-Palin
Matt Damon calls it like he sees it
Old news in the fact that the putting down of Sarah Palin as having no experience
actually flies in the face of the Democrats in trying to get Obama elected, they have backed off
on this issue in case you hadn't noticed for obvious reasons ;)
Staying with this... Heard a good on the other day in comparing experience, "McCain has fired rockets
from war planes in Vietnam while Obama has fired staples into electric poles in Chicago, you decide"....Classic :D
Is it any wonder the US are involved in so many conflicts around the world when the respective military experience of the presidential candidates is considered as such an important criteria. WTF has being able to use a gun or fire rockets got to do with your suitability to run a country? Typical American bravado shite ::)
Not that I'd expect you to figure it out on your own but it's the firing of Staples into electric poles that's the focus of that statement
and not the "typical American Bravado shite.... *shakes head*
Quote from: J70 on September 11, 2008, 03:09:23 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 09, 2008, 01:51:09 AM
Quotehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/democrats/2706939/US-elections-MSNBC-sidelines-presenters-Chris-Matthews-and-Keith-Olbermann.html
This can't be ..... is Fox news behind this :o Surely most of you here would agree
there's no Liberal bias in our main stream media... ye have been saying so for sometime now ::)
Fox News are every bit as mainstream as MSNBC. You'd swear themselves and talk radio are out there desperately trying to reach a tiny number of listeners, vainly trying to get some input. And its funny how you never hear these jibes aimed at the "mainstream" radio stations. ABC's NYC station, WABC, is wall-to-wall right-wing talk shows, except for the conspiracy bullshit on Coast to Coast in the middle of the night and Imus' show in the morning.
The anchors should be impartial though.
Bar the sentence in bold above, WTF has that to do with my post,
Again I was merely pointing out the obvious to all bar the few on here
that MSNBC / CNN etc have been getting away with pushing and promoting complete Liberal biased news for years, contrary to popular belief around here ;)
The two A**holes finally pushed and pushed the envelope so far that the network had no choice but to be seen to take action against such "personal bias"
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 13, 2008, 03:07:52 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 11, 2008, 02:30:39 PM
http://www.videosift.com/video/Matt-Damon-Actually-Sounding-Smart-On-Palin
Matt Damon calls it like he sees it
Old news in the fact that the putting down of Sarah Palin as having no experience
actually flies in the face of the Democrats in trying to get Obama elected, they have backed off
on this issue in case you hadn't noticed for obvious reasons ;)
Staying with this... Heard a good on the other day in comparing experience, "McCain has fired rockets
from war planes in Vietnam while Obama has fired staples into electric poles in Chicago, you decide"....Classic :D
Of course the Democrats attacking Palin's experience had nothing to do with pointing out the hypocrisy of Republicans attacking Obama for it all summer and then putting someone like Palin in the possible position of becoming president at any moment... ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 13, 2008, 04:23:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on September 11, 2008, 03:09:23 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 09, 2008, 01:51:09 AM
Quotehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/democrats/2706939/US-elections-MSNBC-sidelines-presenters-Chris-Matthews-and-Keith-Olbermann.html
This can't be ..... is Fox news behind this :o Surely most of you here would agree
there's no Liberal bias in our main stream media... ye have been saying so for sometime now ::)
Fox News are every bit as mainstream as MSNBC. You'd swear themselves and talk radio are out there desperately trying to reach a tiny number of listeners, vainly trying to get some input. And its funny how you never hear these jibes aimed at the "mainstream" radio stations. ABC's NYC station, WABC, is wall-to-wall right-wing talk shows, except for the conspiracy bullshit on Coast to Coast in the middle of the night and Imus' show in the morning.
The anchors should be impartial though.
Bar the sentence in bold above, WTF has that to do with my post, Again I was merely pointing out the obvious to all bar the few on here
that MSNBC / CNN etc have been getting away with pushing and promoting complete Liberal biased news for years, contrary to popular belief around here ;)
The two A**holes finally pushed and pushed the envelope so far that the network had no choice but to be seen to take action against such "personal bias"
I don't see CNN as especially biased in either direction myself. MSNBC is left-leaning no question, as Fox News is right-leaning.
And WTF my comment had to do with yours is that Fox and talk radio are every bit as mainstream at this stage as MSNBC or CNN or the NY Times or what have you. Unless you're suggesting that people have to go to some secret location or join a club to access them? This idea that Limbaugh and Hannity and the rest of them are the "alternate" media is bullshit. You can't claim to be alternative and claim to be the most successful and influential all at the same time. And if you don't want someone to address the "mainstream" characterization, then don't bring it up next time.
And unless I'm mistaken, I doubt very much if most of the people on this board get MSNBC, while they only get CNN's international, London-based channel, which varies quite a bit from the main US one.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 13, 2008, 03:59:24 AM
Quote from: AFS on September 13, 2008, 03:54:12 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 13, 2008, 03:07:52 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 11, 2008, 02:30:39 PM
http://www.videosift.com/video/Matt-Damon-Actually-Sounding-Smart-On-Palin
Matt Damon calls it like he sees it
Old news in the fact that the putting down of Sarah Palin as having no experience
actually flies in the face of the Democrats in trying to get Obama elected, they have backed off
on this issue in case you hadn't noticed for obvious reasons ;)
Staying with this... Heard a good on the other day in comparing experience, "McCain has fired rockets
from war planes in Vietnam while Obama has fired staples into electric poles in Chicago, you decide"....Classic :D
Is it any wonder the US are involved in so many conflicts around the world when the respective military experience of the presidential candidates is considered as such an important criteria. WTF has being able to use a gun or fire rockets got to do with your suitability to run a country? Typical American bravado shite ::)
Not that I'd expect you to figure it out on your own but it's the firing of Staples into electric poles that's the focus of that statement
and not the "typical American Bravado shite.... *shakes head*
No matter how much you protest otherwise, Palin has rendered the experience issue irrelevant to any honest voter, as she could be president at any point from late January onwards. Anyway, Republicans, up until this particular election, used to tell us that governors were the only sensible options from whom to choose a presidential candidate. That was one of the main issues they attacked John Kerry on, along with the odious swift-boat shite. 30 years in the senate, a glorified, elitist debating club was the approach they took. Not hearing much about that kind of thing these days. Suddenly, a long-standing senator has some expertise to offer! And he's just the type of outsider needed to change Washington!
Anyway - nobody is answering the question on the dinosaur issue. I already
know she favours teaching creationism as science. Now I'd like to know whether
she believes in it herself.
I need to know how scared I should be.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 13, 2008, 03:07:52 AM
Quote from: heganboy on September 11, 2008, 02:30:39 PM
http://www.videosift.com/video/Matt-Damon-Actually-Sounding-Smart-On-Palin
Matt Damon calls it like he sees it
Old news in the fact that the putting down of Sarah Palin as having no experience
actually flies in the face of the Democrats in trying to get Obama elected, they have backed off
on this issue in case you hadn't noticed for obvious reasons ;)
Staying with this... Heard a good on the other day in comparing experience, "McCain has fired rockets
from war planes in Vietnam while Obama has fired staples into electric poles in Chicago, you decide"....Classic :D
Fire a rocket from a plane and it can go anywhere, try to do anything on the southside of Chicago and you can qualify for any military ribbon.
Miitary experience matters as much as W getting an excuse from his dad while he did coke duing Vietnam.
Quote from: Hardy on September 13, 2008, 09:52:30 AM
Anyway - nobody is answering the question on the dinosaur issue. I already
know she favours teaching creationism as science. Now I'd like to know whether
she believes in it herself.
I need to know how scared I should be.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
Embarrassing
09.18.08 -- 9:21AM
By Josh Marshall
Well, we've heard the interview http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/217792.php (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/217792.php) now. And John McCain either doesn't know who the Prime Minister of Spain is, thinks Spain is a country in Latin America, or possibly both.
In case, you haven't seen our updates from last night, yesterday John McCain was interviewed on the Florida affiliate of Spanish radio network Union Radio. And in the interview McCain appeared not to know who the Prime Minister of Spain was and assumed he was some anti-American leftist leader from South America.
After the interviewer presses him a couple times on the point and tries to focus him on the fact that Prime Minister Zapatero isn't from Mexico and isn't a drug lord either McCain comes back at her saying, "All I can tell you is that I have a clear record of working with leaders in the Hemisphere that are friends with us and standing up to those who are not. And that's judged on the basis of the importance of our relationship with Latin America and the entire region."
Then there's a moment of awkward pause before she says. "But what about Europe? I'm talking about the President of Spain."
McCain: "What about me, what?
Interviewer: "Are you willing to meet with him if you're elected president?"
McCain: "I am wiling to meet with any leader who is dedicated to the same principles and philosophy that we are for humans rights, democracy and freedom. And I will stand up to those who do not."
At this point, the interviewer gets tongue-tied presumably because she can't get over McCain not knowing what Spain is.
This just gets better - Unreal
She even applied for her passport last year...
So McCain wants to suspend his campaign and delay this Friday's debate so that the leaders can help with the current economic crisis.
Obama has just basically called his bluff saying that a Presidential candidate should be able to concentrate on 2 things at once (the debate and the economy) and not just one thing
the other thing is that it was Obama who called McCain to issue a joint statement and then McCain issued his press release- The obamites are pissed
it was sneaky as fcuk - I'll give you that
And anyway - what does John McCain think he'll be able to solve on a Friday Night at 9pm in Washington?
Could be mistaken but I think I read that Palin has declared that she has visited Ireland.
Quote from: Canalman on September 25, 2008, 10:23:32 AM
Could be mistaken but I think I read that Palin has declared that she has visited Ireland.
Her plane touched down at Shannon to refuel on her one and only trip abroad.
McCain was supposed to be on Letterman last night and cancelled
Dave wasn't happy
http://defamer.com/5054521/america-here-is-your-desired-letterman-on-mccain-action
Palin's latest TV interview
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/24/eveningnews/main4476173.shtml
McCain just lurches from crisis to crisis. The man is an idiot and a hypocrite.
IT'S JUST human nature that some calamities register in the brain and others don't. The train engineer texting at the throttle ("HOW R U? C U L8R") and missing the red light and 25 people die in the crash - oh God, that is way too real - everyone has had a moment of supreme stupidity that came close to killing somebody. Even atheists say a little prayer now and then: "Dear God, I am an idiot, thank you for protecting my children," writes Garrison Keillor
On the other hand, the US federal bailout of the financial market is a calamity that people accept as if it were just one more hurricane.An air of crisis, the secretary of the treasury striding down a hall at the Capitol with minions in his wake, solemn-faced congressmen at the microphones. Something must be done, harrumph harrumph.
The current occupant pops out of the cuckoo clock and reads a few lines off a piece of paper, pronouncing all the words correctly. And the newscaster looks into the camera and says, "Etaoin shrdlu qwertyuiop."
Where is the outrage?
Poor Idaho senator Larry Craig got a truckload of moral condemnation for tapping his wingtips in the men's john, but his party proposes to spend 5 per cent of the GDP to buy up bad loans made by men who walk away with their fortunes intact while retirees see their 401(k) go pffffffff like a defunct air mattress, and it's business as usual.
John McCain is a lifelong deregulator and believer in letting brokers and bankers do as they please - remember Lincoln Savings & Loan and his intervention with federal regulators in behalf of his friend Charles Keating, who then went to prison? Remember Neil Bush, the brother of the CO, who, as a director of Silverado S&L, bestowed enormous loans on his friends without telling fellow directors that the friends were friends and who, when the loans failed, paid a small fine and went skipping off to other things?
McCain now decries greed on Wall Street and suggests a commission be formed to look into the problem. This is like Casanova coming out for chastity.
Confident men took leave of common sense and bet on the idea of perpetual profit in the real estate market and crashed. But it wasn't their money. It was your money they were messing with. And that's why you need government regulators.
Gimlet-eyed men with steel-rim glasses and crepe-soled shoes who check the numbers and have the power to say: "This is a scam and a hustle and either you cease and desist or you spend a few years in a minimum-security federal facility playing backgammon."
The Republican party used to specialise in gimlet-eyed, steel-rim, crepe-soled common sense and then it was taken over by crooked preachers who demand we trust them because they're packing a Bible and God sent them on a mission to enact lower taxes, less government. Except when things crash, and then government has to pick up the pieces.
Some say the tab might come to a trillion dollars. No one knows. And McCain has not one moment of doubt or regret. He switches from First Deregulation Church to Our Lady of Strict Vigilance like you might go from decaf to latte. Where is the straight talk? Does the man have no conscience?
It wasn't their money they were playing with. It was yours. Where were the cops?
What we are seeing is the stuff of a novel, the public corruption of an American war hero. It is painful. First, there was his exploitation of a symbolic woman, an eager zealot who is so far out of her depth that it isn't funny any more. Anyone with a heart has to hurt for how McCain has made a fool of her.
Never mind the persistent cheesiness of his attack ads. And now this chasm of debt and loss and the gentleman pretends to be shocked. He was there. He turned out the lights. He sent the regulators home.
McCain seems willing to say anything, do anything, to get to the White House so he can go to war with Iran. If he needs to recline naked in Macy's window, he would do that, or eat live chickens, or claim to be a reformer.
Obviously you can fool a lot of people for awhile and maybe he can stretch it out until mid-November.
But the truth is marching on. A few true conservatives are leading a charge against the bailout. Good for them.
But how about admitting that their cowboy economic philosophy was at fault here?
That's a fine piece by Keillor. And it asks the question too few have asked - where were the cops?
Unfortunately, I'm not convinced about the alternative to McCain either. I haven't seen the slightest shred of evidence of an ounce of substance in Obama's rhetoric. It's all aspiration, sound-byte and non-specific exhortation. It reads like the stuff that fella with the portentous delivery who died recently used to read out in movie trailers:
It's coming. To a rally near you. Barack Obama will thrill you with his presentation, amaze you with his stagecraft, bewilder you in trying to figure out what he's talking about.
"America cannot turn back". Turn back from what, who or where?
"We are going to change". Great. If it needs changing. What are you going to change? Silence.
"This is a movement". Well so is what happens when I go to the toilet, but I don't expect people to vote for it.
You can say that about anyone who hasn't been in power. I think there's more than sound bytes and fluffy warm feelings. I think he has the integrity and drive to really do better for the US (and the world beyond that it impacts greatly). If he started to get into specifics at every rally there wouldn't be too many turning up now would there be?
Its in these debates where McCain should be able to point out "you can't afford to do that if you do this" etc but the man simply hasn't a clue.
But seriously, Seanie - has he said anything specific at all? What is he talking about not turning back from and what is he talking about changing and, most importantly, what is the change going to be? I'd love to believe in the fuzzy stuff, but until we're told what it means I have two choices - take it on trust or assume it's flimflam. I'm not much good at taking on trust.
There's actually a fair bit on his website http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ that I read that's contains some detail. His second book "The Audacity of Hope" outlines the change he believes needs to take place. I found the book excellent. The website is good too.
If you thought Joe Biden's bizarre reference to President FDR calming the American public on tv after the Wall Street crash was bad, take a look at this mess!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/).
There were rumours earlier that McCain wanted to postpone the VP debates as well - if this is any guide to what we can expect from the hockey mom, it's no wonder!
Quote from: Lecale2 on September 25, 2008, 10:26:46 AM
Quote from: Canalman on September 25, 2008, 10:23:32 AM
Could be mistaken but I think I read that Palin has declared that she has visited Ireland.
Her plane touched down at Shannon to refuel on her one and only trip abroad.
I once touched down on a broad named Shannon but didn't need a plane ;)
Quote from: Hardy on September 25, 2008, 05:53:21 PM
That's a fine piece by Keillor. And it asks the question too few have asked - where were the cops?
Unfortunately, I'm not convinced about the alternative to McCain either. I haven't seen the slightest shred of evidence of an ounce of substance in Obama's rhetoric. It's all aspiration, sound-byte and non-specific exhortation. It reads like the stuff that fella with the portentous delivery who died recently used to read out in movie trailers:
It's coming. To a rally near you. Barack Obama will thrill you with his presentation, amaze you with his stagecraft, bewilder you in trying to figure out what he's talking about.
"America cannot turn back". Turn back from what, who or where?
"We are going to change". Great. If it needs changing. What are you going to change? Silence.
"This is a movement". Well so is what happens when I go to the toilet, but I don't expect people to vote for it.
I think empty rhetoric is still far better than the alternative
Any of you care to touch on Jim Johnson or Franklin Raines or should I post a link ::)
QuoteI think empty rhetoric is still far better than the alternative
Oh Holy Fcuk...... :o
So Washington Mutual gone now and the bail out deal not agreed yet - Oldest member of White House press corp has an interesting article here:
Republican Government-Bashers Line Up for Federal Aid
by Helen Thomas
What has happened to those conservative Republican leaders whose mantra was "government is the problem -- not the solution"?
Tell that to the once-bloated financial giants now standing in line for whopping government handouts to the tune of $700 billion. And who can forget those who wanted to "get the government off our backs"? Their silence now is deafening.
In the rush for bailouts for the hard-hit government mortgage finance giants, the U.S. Treasury seized control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and is trying to rescue American International Group, the largest insurer of the world. It allowed 158-year-old Lehman Brothers to collapse, but came to the rescue of the Bear, Stearns, another Wall Street firm.
What about the thousands of suffering homeowners who face mortgage foreclosures? They are at the end of the public trough and almost forgotten in the scramble to protect Wall Street. And what about the failed CEOs who hope to walk out the door with obscene multi-million-dollar golden parachutes and big bonuses?
Isn't there something wrong with this picture?
Both Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke have worked out a plan to pass on the price of the bailouts to the American taxpayer. Congress is still scrutinizing the proposal.
The U.S. financial mess has rippled through other economies of the world. The fault rests with Wall Street greed, which brought on good times for the high rollers, who thought it would never end. And it rests with the federal government for its failure to police mortgage lenders.
Republican lawmakers and presidents who abhor government restrictions and oversight because of their anti-government philosophy have put America in a critical financial state.
We should be looking at the Franklin Delano Roosevelt blueprint. People were in despair after the stock market crashed in 1929 and the Great Depression slowly settled in. They lost hope until FDR took office in 1933 and told Americans in his first inaugural address that we had nothing "to fear but fear itself."
Roosevelt, thinking of the poor and desperate, created several New Deal programs to put people back to work. He was viewed as a savior at the time by millions of Americans, but he also had bitter detractors who resented his radical steps.
I remember the suffering during the Depression in my hometown of Detroit and the long lines of forlorn men, standing in the dead of winter outside the auto factories, hoping for jobs. The popular song on the radio was "Brother, Can You Spare a Dime." The best-selling book was John Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath."
Roosevelt was innovative. Some programs worked, some didn't. But many remain today to provide some sense of security, like the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the National Labor Relations Act to protect unions and the Social Security system to help the elderly. In the 1930s, 9,000 banks closed down. Today we have to ask: Why didn't the so-called experts see the storm coming in the 21st century?
Ironically, the remaining affluent and the poor are now on the same page with Abraham Lincoln, who said: "Government should do for people what they cannot do for themselves."
Coincidentally I started reading the Grapes of Wrath again last month -l had forgotten what a great read it was
The first big debate tonight.
Hopefully Obama tears McCain a new one. ;D
Also from that CBS interview, I can see why the McCain campaign have been trying to hide her.
She is extremely lightweight.
The worse the financial crisi gets, the better for the Dems as it was Republican ecomonic policies that brought about this mess.
You can't blame it all on the GOP. The Democrats seriously pushed for sub-prime lending. There is plenty of blame to go around.
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2008, 01:07:59 AM
You can't blame it all on the GOP. The Democrats seriously pushed for sub-prime lending. There is plenty of blame to go around.
Of course he can J when his head is firmly planted in his Arse ;)
Quote from: Ash Smoker on September 26, 2008, 11:14:20 PM
The first big debate tonight.
Hopefully Obama tears McCain a new one. ;D
Also from that CBS interview, I can see why the McCain campaign have been trying to hide her.
She is extremely lightweight.
The worse the financial crisi gets, the better for the Dems as it was Republican ecomonic policies that brought about this mess.
Really.... take the blinkers off for a few minutes and educate yourself:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09262008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/alarms__denial_130763.htm
Perhaps Barney Frank is a Republican at Heart ::)
Sarah Palin sounds like David Brent from The Office here. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhp8PQ9_Mk&eurl=http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055386684 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhp8PQ9_Mk&eurl=http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055386684)
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2008, 02:04:59 AM
Really.... take the blinkers off for a few minutes and educate yourself:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09262008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/alarms__denial_130763.htm
Perhaps Barney Frank is a Republican at Heart ::)
So the Republicans saw it coming all along?
They didn't make much effort to push through the legislation.
QuoteThey didn't make much effort to push through the legislation.
Yes - because Government should leave the market alone. Government is bad. Unless they are handing you billions of dollars....
obama held his own and more in the foreign policy debate , good news considering this was deemed to be his weak point
Quote from: Ash Smoker on September 27, 2008, 09:45:45 AM
Sarah Palin sounds like David Brent from The Office here. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhp8PQ9_Mk&eurl=http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055386684 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhp8PQ9_Mk&eurl=http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055386684)
Very scary, no wonder they wont let her on T.V. The debate with her and Biden next Thursday should be fun.
She definitely has the look of someone who has been desperately cramming for an exam, pulling all kinds of non sequiturs out of thin air that have nothing to do with the questions she's been asked. Quite a departure from the sarcastic, smart-arse arrogance we saw in her convention speech. I would caution those hoping for an embarrassment for the McCain campaign at this debate that Joe Biden has a serious tendency to just say whatever comes into his head, leading to a long line of ill-thought-out gaffes, and also to drone on and on and use 200 words to say something he could say in 20. Nevertheless, it has been a very, very poor week for Palin, and she has a lot to prove at this debate, although the now-lower expectations might actually help her.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
She'd wanna cram a little harder. I don't care what end of the ticket she is on...I wouldn't vote for her for class prefect...
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 27, 2008, 02:04:59 AM
Quote from: Ash Smoker on September 26, 2008, 11:14:20 PM
The first big debate tonight.
Hopefully Obama tears McCain a new one. ;D
Also from that CBS interview, I can see why the McCain campaign have been trying to hide her.
She is extremely lightweight.
The worse the financial crisi gets, the better for the Dems as it was Republican ecomonic policies that brought about this mess.
Really.... take the blinkers off for a few minutes and educate yourself:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09262008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/alarms__denial_130763.htm
Perhaps Barney Frank is a Republican at Heart ::)
Yes blame minorities for Lehman financing multi-billion dollar commercial buildings around the world. The less well off have the right to own their own skyscrapers too. If you are using the NY Post to educate yourself, I'm not surprised you are supporting McCain. I hear the gossip pages are good though.
QuoteYes blame minorities for Lehman financing multi-billion dollar commercial buildings around the world. The less well off have the right to own their own skyscrapers too. If you are using the NY Post to educate yourself, I'm not surprised you are supporting McCain. I hear the gossip pages are good though.
Should I apologise? ye see I couldn't find it in the Huffington post or Boynegaels Politicalticker ::)
If it was gossip I was after Turlough I can get all i need of it here on this site ;)
Agreed that Palin looks well out of her depth.
McCain's people should have been grooming her months beforehand.
Coaching her all the answers or evasion techniques required.
She should have been able to NOT answer questions but sound coherent.
However don't assume she will get hammered in the debate. She should a few scripted pieces to use. Her party conference speech was delivered well after all.
Also, the site of an East Coast intellectual like Biden, showing up a plain small town gal might backfire on the Dems.
If the perception we are given in Ireland of Republicans being a little bit hick and thick, let us not forget that Democrats are often seen as smug and a little bit too clever in many parts of America.
I see McCain was having a go at government-funded ecological research as a waste of taxpayers money. Where does he think the information to preserve and manage species like grizzly bears, the object of his scorn, is going to come from? His running mate likes shooting these animals from a plane like fish in a barrel, but he doesn't even want to pay the money it will take to properly manage them. And not a f**king word about the billions that have gone missing through contracts concerning Iraq. A $3million bear study is an example of what is driving the country down the tubes. But no doubt such comments will go down well with his anti-conservation and anti-intellectual right-wing base.
QuoteHis running mate likes shooting these animals from a plane like fish in a barrel,
I do know her
father once shot a grizzly bear, must there go a tail on
everything that gets reported
to suit and gain support for the ultra liberal agenda that is so very evident here.
QuoteAnd not a f**king word about the billions that have gone missing through contracts concerning Iraq.
Some of ye here love to type... sure get a letter off to Mrs feinstein about that one, she's surprizingly quiet on said issue ::)
Quoteanti-intellectual right-wing base.
Nice...... there's none of them as smart as you, is that it J :-\
Lads, why the persistent blinkered hatred... yes hatred for anything that could even be remotely construed to be a conservative point of view,
especially from some experts here that have never even been to this country.
Jaysus it's like being at home in the middle of the troubles with the hatred and bigotry.....wise up FFS, it's been well said before
there's not an iota of difference in any of them.....pull your heads out of your holes and realize it
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2008, 04:56:56 PM
QuoteHis running mate likes shooting these animals from a plane like fish in a barrel,
I do know her father once shot a grizzly bear, must there go a tail on everything that gets reported
to suit and gain support for the ultra liberal agenda that is so very evident here.
She has been busily promoting this method of hunting as governor.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2008, 04:56:56 PM
QuoteAnd not a f**king word about the billions that have gone missing through contracts concerning Iraq.
Some of ye here love to type... sure get a letter off to Mrs feinstein about that one, she's surprizingly quiet on said issue ::)
I've no idea if Feinstein has been pursuing the waste in Iraq. What is curious is that in such a setting McCain picks on a relatively small ecological project (that has been pushed by Republicans, ranchers and loggers BTW - they hope that the information will show the species to be less threatened than thought) instead of the huge amount squandered in Iraq.
QuoteQuote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2008, 04:56:56 PManti-intellectual right-wing base.
Nice...... there's none of them as smart as you, is that it J :-\
I didn't say that. But do you think it is a coincidence that scientists and "east-coast elites" are such objects of hatred on the right? That academics and intellectuals are viewed as naive, indoctrinated fools as opposed to highly educated, intelligent experts in their fields. This is the shite you hear on talk radio every day.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2008, 04:56:56 PM
Lads, why the persistent blinkered hatred... yes hatred for anything that could even be remotely construed to be a conservative point of view,
especially from some experts here that have never even been to this country.
Jaysus it's like being at home in the middle of the troubles with the hatred and bigotry.....wise up FFS, it's been well said before
there's not an iota of difference in any of them.....pull your heads out of your holes and realize it
I don't hate anything "remotely construed to be a conservative point of view". I agree with quite a bit of economic conservatism. I despise the bigotry and superstition of the religious right and their ridiculous, populist, close-minded, ill-informed positions on science. If the Republicans disassociated from the religious right and got a little bit more cop on on environmental issues, I'd vote for their candidate no problem. I've voted for Bloomberg in NYC, and he is hardly a free-spending liberal or enemy of business.
From.....
QuoteHis running mate likes shooting these animals from a plane like fish in a barrel,/
To........
QuoteShe has been busily promoting this method of hunting as governor.
That's better
QuoteI've no idea if Feinstein has been pursuing the waste in Iraq.
If you want to correlate funneling contracts to her husbands company with whether or not she's pursuing waste then OK
Again I'm merely pointing out that by your logic, it's OK that prominent democrats have, can and do make millions
off the war in Iraq but then hold McCain's hand to the fire for not bringing it to the fore
during the debate.
Quoteanti-intellectual right-wing base.
I'd say it would be fair to assume that you hold yourself in a fairly high regard in terms of intellect to make
a sweeping statement like that.
QuoteThis is the shite you hear on talk radio every day.
Bottom line IMO, whether or not any of us would be a supporter of Palin, the media has been despicable
at how they have went after her, again the fact that her father once shot a bear should make headlines
but Obama's associations with known terrorists or his being in bed with Raines and Johnson is swept under
the rug, after all some of you seem to have a lot to say about the financial meltdown but also seem to want to
close your eyes to the fact that these two criminals somehow find themselves as advisers to Obama's campaign
on economics *shakes head* If that's the type of change some of ye are after then good luck with that.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2008, 07:55:48 PM
From.....QuoteHis running mate likes shooting these animals from a plane like fish in a barrel,/
To........QuoteShe has been busily promoting this method of hunting as governor.
That's better
I am actually fine with hunting, even if I object vehemently to the aeroplane shite she is promoting. My main point was that in order for hunters to have something to go after, populations need to be managed, which can only be done with information provided by biologists and their grad students spending tax payers money and going out and studying them. McCain seems to have a problem with this.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2008, 07:55:48 PM
QuoteI've no idea if Feinstein has been pursuing the waste in Iraq.
If you want to correlate funneling contracts to her husbands company with whether or not she's pursuing waste then OK
Again I'm merely pointing out that by your logic, it's OK that prominent democrats have, can and do make millions
off the war in Iraq but then hold McCain's hand to the fire for not bringing it to the fore
during the debate.
I was asking why McCain ignored the vast amounts of money that has been unaccounted for in Iraq at the expense of the modest amount devoted to scientific research. I was not talking about companies just making money in Iraq (wasn't it part of this administration's original idea that as much of the effort should be privatized as possible?).
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2008, 07:55:48 PM
Quoteanti-intellectual right-wing base.
I'd say it would be fair to assume that you hold yourself in a fairly high regard in terms of intellect to make
a sweeping statement like that.
My opinion of myself is irrelevant. Anyone who reads the right wing forums (e.g. Townhall comments sections and Freerepublic) and listens to right wing radio doesn't have to immerse themselves into those media for too long to become aware of their attitudes to science and academia.
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 28, 2008, 07:55:48 PM
QuoteThis is the shite you hear on talk radio every day.
Bottom line IMO, whether or not any of us would be a supporter of Palin, the media has been despicable
at how they have went after her, again the fact that her father once shot a bear should make headlines
but Obama's associations with known terrorists or his being in bed with Raines and Johnson is swept under
the rug, after all some of you seem to have a lot to say about the financial meltdown but also seem to want to
close your eyes to the fact that these two criminals somehow find themselves as advisers to Obama's campaign
on economics *shakes head* If that's the type of change some of ye are after then good luck with that.
What exactly have the media done wrong re. Palin? Yes, the rumour that her daughter bore her child was despicable, but that was spread by bloggers, one of whom, Andrew Sullivan, is a bloody conservative Republican, albeit one who has little time for Palin or the religious right.
Apart from that though, I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary. She has made herself look idiotic over the past few weeks with her poor performances in interviews. The press has a duty to vet her, which includes looking into stuff like Troopergate and her past, although even that has been pretty mild and low-key. If she wanted books taken off the library shelves, then I think we are entitled to know if its true, and if so, what the books were. And its not like Obama has not been touched by rumour either. I've an aunt in Florida who is afraid to vote for Obama because he might be secretly muslim and a member of Al Qaida. You can't go on a right wing website without some contributor referring to him as B. Hussain Obama. WABC here in NYC carries a talk radio host called Bill Cunningham on Sunday nights who constantly uses the Hussain bit, purely to drive home the muslim connection. To his credit, McCain admonished Cunningham at a rally a few months back for doing that.
As for the likes of Ayres, distasteful and all as I find him, a political association on local education issues like that is not enough to make me to switch sides. Policies matter more. And anyway, such questionable people never seem a problem for the right wing when they make heroes out of the likes of G Gordon Liddy or their own multitude of religious demogogues who form the soul of the GOP. McCain himself condemned them in the past before doing an about-turn and seeking their consent and assistance this time around. As for the Fannie Mae boys, what crimes have they been charged with? Raines was one of the pushers for sub-prime lending - is he going to face charges for that? If so, then Obama will have to answer questions I'm sure McCain will make sure are asked. Similarly for McCain the anti-earmarker and his entourage of K Street campaign members.
And coming back to Ayres - I presume a nationalist with a Tyrone background who has a problem with Obama's political connection with Ayres also has a big problem with Sinn Fein and the IRA and all those who work with them?
I will fully admit that you are probably going to find some hypocrisies in my stances. We all have to swallow some distasteful elements and turn a blind eye to certain contradictions when voting, particularly when a massive, powerful country like the US is split into only two parties. At the end of the day, it comes down to voting for the lesser of two evils, assuming you don't want to waste your vote on an Nader or a Barr or a McKinney or one of the other minor, independent candidates.
probably the best tracking poll for the election. as of today it looks good for obama
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/
They have Indiana, Florida and Ohio leaning towards Obama in that count. Those states are statistically tied at the moment, as are a number of others such as Pennsylvania and Colorado. This will go down to the wire. Bush lead by a couple of points in the national polls right up to polling day in 2000, but lost the popular vote. Kerry was ahead, albeit marginally, for quite a long time in 2004, and actually looked like a winner from the exit polls early in the day on election day. Bear in mind as well that you will probably have to subtract a few points from Obama's totals in various states purely because he is black - there are still people out there who won't vote for him because of that, but wouldn't dare say so in polls. Black candidates have historically tended to have inflated numbers in pre-election polls, although hopefully this one will consign that to history.
QuoteAnd coming back to Ayres - I presume a nationalist with a Tyrone background who has a problem with Obama's political connection with Ayres also has a big problem with Sinn Fein and the IRA and all those who work with them?
I don't have a lot of time as that's quite a post there, some I agree with, some i do not and will get to the rest of it,
However, with regards to the above, I could indeed see the correlation to your point if I was running for the British Prime
ministers office.... but I'm not J, simply a nobody like yourself whose future allows me to have whoever i want as friends and also someone
who sees Ayers for what he is which is much more than a
political associate of Obama's
Now that
is scary.....
Quote from: Tyrones own on September 29, 2008, 12:01:17 AM
QuoteAnd coming back to Ayres - I presume a nationalist with a Tyrone background who has a problem with Obama's political connection with Ayres also has a big problem with Sinn Fein and the IRA and all those who work with them?
I don't have a lot of time as that's quite a post there, some I agree with, some i do not and will get to the rest of it,
However, with regards to the above, I could indeed see the correlation to your point if I was running for the British Prime
ministers office.... but I'm not J, simply a nobody like yourself whose future allows me to have whoever i want as friends and also someone
who sees Ayers for what he is which is much more than a political associate of Obama's
Now that is scary.....
My point was more as to how you would vote in elections in NI, where such associations are pretty widespread. Would it matter there, as it appears to matter to you when it comes to Obama? Or is it merely a convenient stick (that you don't really care about) with which to beat someone like Obama, whom you would have no intention of voting for anyway, under any circumstances?
QuoteAny of you care to touch on Jim Johnson or Franklin Raines or should I post a link
Fcuk it I'll post it anyway as it seems, like Obama, some of ye here would rather they didn't exist....
..Oh wait Obama has already said that :D
*Warning* it might go against the agenda here ;)
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
The above doesn't warrant a response as these facts have already been covered...
at least read the thread before you embarrass yourself.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=XIenDGSAdPA
Jaysus they should try this ploy in Alaska... there'd be some uproar if she tried it :o
Could the wheels be coming off the machine ;D
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 01, 2008, 04:58:14 AM
The above doesn't warrant a response as these facts have already been covered...
at least read the thread before you embarrass yourself.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=XIenDGSAdPA
Jaysus they should try this ploy in Alaska... there'd be some uproar if she tried it :o
Could the wheels be coming off the machine ;D
I presume lying in political ads is illegal in Missouri then is it? I would think McCain would be looking for the same protection from the authorities there so.
VP Debate
Rounds by Round Scoring (each round 1/2 hour)
Round1 Joe 9 Sarah 1
Quote from: DrinknHarp on October 03, 2008, 02:49:03 AM
VP Debate
Rounds by Round Scoring (each round 1/2 hour)
Round1 Joe 9 Sarah 1
Round 2 Joe 10 Sarah 0
Quote from: DrinknHarp on October 03, 2008, 03:01:20 AM
Quote from: DrinknHarp on October 03, 2008, 02:49:03 AM
VP Debate
Rounds by Round Scoring (each round 1/2 hour)
Round1 Joe 9 Sarah 1
Round 2 Joe 10 Sarah 0
Round 3 Joe 10 Sarah 0
Joe answered questions with direct and thorough answers. He had facts and numbers to support his answers.
Sarah evaded questions with run around answers that eluded the actual questions. She spoke of her "Maverick" running mate and how she supports his plan of change without stating what this change is.
On a side note her grammar and accent was like fingernails on a chalkboard.
Quote from: AFS on October 03, 2008, 03:33:57 AM
That woman is ridiculous. How do more people not see this?
Every answer is recited like the memorised spiel it is.
She's gotten the names of at least a couple of people and places wrong already.
The questions that she actually answers, she never answers in any detail, in contrast Biden probably gives too much detail and gets a tad boring. Anyone with a half decent knowledge of issues like climate change and Iraq/Afganistan/Pakistan, which unfortunately rules out a large percentage of the electorate in the states, would realise that she's waffling, talking nonsense and all not actually saying anything about anything.
She's played the disabled baby/ kid in Iraq card AGAIN.
Infuriatingly though, her sparky smiley nature, added to her couple of cheap and obvious digs, is probably doing her a lot good with all those Middle America voters that she's aiming at. She also pathetically plays up that 'cute, scared, All American little girl from small town USA' image, which again will probably win her plenty of votes.
And FFS how many times can one person say the words CHANGE, MAVERICK and REFORMER in an hour and a half?!?! Brain washing at its finest ::)
As long as Palin didn't blank out and stand there tongue-tied, she was going to win this debate in the eyes of the public. Biden was on a hiding to nothing and played it correctly in my opinion by sticking to McCain and defending Obama. Palin passed the test as well and will have rehabilitated herself somewhat, but I'm not sure what difference either of them are going to make given the current circumstances, with the bail-out still topping the headlines, another presidential debate on Tuesday and only four weeks left. Maybe she'll swing some of the undecideds towards McCain, but I think its down to the two protagonists and whatever happens regarding the economy over the next few weeks. Maybe the likes of Tyrone's Own thinks tonight's debate will cause a swing back towards McCain, but I don't think so. At most it might stop Obama's surge of the past week. McCain himself will have to do the rest.
QuoteThat woman is ridiculous. How do more people not see this?
Every answer is recited like the memorised spiel it is.
She's gotten the names of at least a couple of people and places wrong already.
The questions that she actually answers, she never answers in any detail, in contrast Biden probably gives too much detail and gets a tad boring. Anyone with a half decent knowledge of issues like climate change and Iraq/Afganistan/Pakistan, which unfortunately rules out a large percentage of the electorate in the states, would realise that she's waffling, talking nonsense and all not actually saying anything about anything.
She's played the disabled baby/ kid in Iraq card AGAIN.
Infuriatingly though, her sparky smiley nature, added to her couple of cheap and obvious digs, is probably doing her a lot good with all those Middle America voters that she's aiming at. She also pathetically plays up that 'cute, scared, All American little girl from small town USA' image, which again will probably win her plenty of votes.
And FFS how many times can one person say the words CHANGE, MAVERICK and REFORMER in an hour and a half?!?! Brain washing at its finest
:'( :'( :'( Quit you blertin' girls and move over, we're coming through ;D
QuoteMaybe the likes of Tyrone's Own thinks tonight's debate will cause a swing back towards McCain, but I don't think so.
In all honesty I do actually....... she put a lot of begrudgers to bed early tonight, especially the two light weights above :D
the hoping and expectation from the left that she'd fall flat on her face simply didn't happen J, an awful lot of people
will have taken notice and i think the pressure falls firmly on Obama now to keep that unofficial lead in the polls intact :-\
McCain just announced he is giving up on Michigan, pulling all advertising on TV,newspapers and billboards. ???
I guess a "surge" will not win Michigan ;) and it is easier to wave a white flag. :o
Palin and Biden asked before the debate what Darth Cheney's best and worst moments were - Biden plays it with a straight bat and admires his determination but stated that the decision to invade Iraq was the worst.
Palin's worst Cheney moment?
Duck hunting :o
And Tyrone's Own stupidest man will still have the gall to defend her :-\
Stupid...... Let me give you stupid
QuoteI think empty rhetoric is still far better than the alternative
Showing your class alright......but then you wee lefties are a tad riled up this evening so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt,
rather than insulting anybody do you have anything of substance to add ???
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 04:16:28 AM
In all honesty I do actually....... she put a lot of begrudgers to bed early tonight, especially the two light weights above :D
the hoping and expectation from the left that she'd fall flat on her face simply didn't happen J, an awful lot of people
will have taken notice and i think the pressure falls firmly on Obama now to keep that unofficial lead in the polls intact :-\
We'll see. At this point, I think most people are leaning one way or the other. Palin already had the christian right sown up, but I cannot see her changing too many other minds. As of tomorrow morning its back to the bailout and then McCain and Obama themselves. We're not going to have a two-week orgy of Palin-stories like we did last month after the RNC.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 04:32:08 AM
Stupid...... Let me give you stupid QuoteI think empty rhetoric is still far better than the alternative
Showing your class alright......but then you wee lefties are a tad riled up this evening so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt,
rather than insulting anybody do you have anything of substance to add ???
Oh dear me - now who appears to be a tad riled up?
You're comments (and you were not alone) was that Obama talks a good game but has nothing of substance to back it up, and it's a fair point - I'd still prefer that than a hypocrite like McCain who somersaults on issues such as government intervention on the economy when it was him and his ilk that played no small part in causing the whole shit fight in the first place.
I'd still prefer empty rhetoric than watch more civilians and US troops lose their lives in Iraq and other places than the not so empty rhetoric of bringing them home.
Comments about you being stupid - merely my opinion, baffled as to how someone from Tyrone with an Irish flag as their avatar (assuming nationalsit sympathies, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) can support the Republicans in this race after the shit fight they've caused in foreign policies and economic matters over the last 8 years. You must work for Haliburton
Quote from: AFS on October 03, 2008, 04:39:20 AM
The only reason she didn't fall flat on her face was because she didn't answer a single f**king question. And the reason she didn't answer a single questions is simply because she didn't know the answers. She'd had a memory bank of about 10 spiels that she regurgitated over and over again, always managing to shift the focus of the question over to what she had memorised, with the useless moderator letting her away with it every time.
Are there people that are seriously going to vote for the ticket with this half-wit on it because she comes out with a few 'gosh darnits' and 'you betchas' just to show everyone how normal and down to earth she is? God, how I wish they would invite Jeremy Paxman to the states to chair one of these debates, if he'd been there tonight Palin would've left in tears, exposed as the lightweight she is.
*Shakes Head* You are a complete embarrassment to the people here that share your view....
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 04:32:08 AM
Stupid...... Let me give you stupid QuoteI think empty rhetoric is still far better than the alternative
Showing your class alright......but then you wee lefties are a tad riled up this evening so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt,
rather than insulting anybody do you have anything of substance to add ???
Riled up?........ Are you kidding me?
Sarah showed her substance tonite.........Nada/Nothing/Zip.
If anything, I am delighted with her performance. She demonstrated she has as much knowledge regarding the executive branch as the oak tree in the front yard.
Quote from: AFS on October 03, 2008, 04:39:20 AM
The only reason she didn't fall flat on her face was because she didn't answer a single f**king question. And the reason she didn't answer a single questions is simply because she didn't know the answers. She'd had a memory bank of about 10 spiels that she regurgitated over and over again, always managing to shift the focus of the question over to what she had memorised, with the useless moderator letting her away with it every time.
Are there people that are seriously going to vote for the ticket with this half-wit on it because she comes out with a few 'gosh darnits' and 'you betchas' just to show everyone how normal and down to earth she is? God, how I wish they would invite Jeremy Paxman to the states to chair one of these debates, if he'd been there tonight Palin would've left in tears, exposed as the lightweight she is.
Yes, there is a huge swathe of America whose only concern is that Palin is "like them". They like that she's evangelical, pro-life, pro-guns, pro-hunting and anti-the-so-called-elites and the "mainstream" media. They don't give a crap if she can't wax lyrical on supreme court cases or foreign policy or economics. Her looks and her snowmobile-racing, fisherman/oil worker husband don't hurt either. Populism works (on all sides).
You rarely see US politicians answer the forceful questions that a Jeremy Paxman-type would ask in that type of setting. Christ, I've heard Irish politicians get a far tougher time from Aine Lawlor on Morning Ireland than I've ever seen here. Surely you can't have forgotten the uproar when Carol Coleman had the temerity to ask Bush a few tough questions some years back? Sometimes, when politicians dare to, they'll get a tough time from journalists of an opposing ethos, but it often degenerates into screaming matches (did anyone see the preposterous exchange between Bill O'Reilly and Barney Frank earlier? ;D). Tim Russert used to ask probing questions of all of his guests, but unfortunately he isn't around anymore.
Quotewhen it was him and his ilk that played no small part in causing the whole shit fight in the first place.
This has been doing the rounds here on left wing radio stations too, could you please explain how McCain can be tied to this
crisis but with not a single mention to the fact that Bill Clinton signed a Bill in '92 that got this whole thing on the path to
the slippery slope, then please enter Barack and his association to Acorn, Raines, Johnson not to mention Barney Frank and co...
Do you honestly not see the other side of the coin here ???
QuoteI'd still prefer empty rhetoric than watch more civilians and US troops lose their lives in Iraq and other places than the not so empty rhetoric of bringing them home.
Bring them home... then what?
Quoteover the last 8 years.
Ye see this is my whole point.... is there absolutely no substance in the Obama campaign that they have to
constantly go back to
the Last 8 yrs, how many times did Biden regurgitate that? move on FFS, as Obama
says himself even if it is a tad contradictory..there'll be lots of time for blame.
"Man is Fully responsible for Global warming" FFS............. :D
Come on TO, if the shoe was on the other foot, you'd be cheering your candidate pointing to "the last eight years". Bush is an unpopular president: of course Obama is going to try and tie his party's candidate to him. The Republican's would do the exact same thing.
Maybe Obama will stop with the "last eight years" stuff if McCain drops the "maverick" talking point. :P
QuoteThey like that she's evangelical, pro-life, pro-guns, pro-hunting and anti-the-so-called-elites
-Christian-
What in hell is so wrong with that, weren't most of us here brought up with similar values in Ireland...... No?
QuoteMaybe Obama will stop with the "last eight years" stuff if McCain drops the "maverick" talking point.
I would go with that...
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 05:06:25 AM
"Man is Fully responsible for Global warming" FFS............. :D
Its not as ridiculous as man having no impact as most of the republicans (including Palin) would have you believe, although I believe McCain accepts (or at least did unless he sold his soul on this issue) that man is at least partially responsible for climate change.
Quotealthough I believe McCain accepts (or at least did unless he sold his soul on this issue) that man is at least partially responsible for climate change.
Oh I agree whole heartedly and Palin said just that tonight.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 05:15:03 AM
QuoteThey like that she's evangelical, pro-life, pro-guns, pro-hunting and anti-the-so-called-elites
-Christian-
What in hell is so wrong with that, weren't most of us here brought up with similar values in Ireland...... No?
Didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I said it was part of her appeal to many Americans. That she is a creationist is a big turn-off for me personally.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 05:18:25 AM
Quotealthough I believe McCain accepts (or at least did unless he sold his soul on this issue) that man is at least partially responsible for climate change.
Oh I agree whole heartedly and Palin said just that tonight.
I missed that bit. She said that was McCain's view or her own?
QuoteI missed that bit. She said that was McCain's view or her own?
She said "I share John McCains view"
QuoteBush is an unpopular president: of course Obama is going to try and tie his party's candidate to him.
That would be fine if he wasn't speaking at rallies and the debate actually that now is not the time for finger pointing
with regards to the crisis we're in.......wonder why :-X
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 05:15:03 AM
QuoteThey like that she's evangelical, pro-life, pro-guns, pro-hunting and anti-the-so-called-elites
-Christian-
What in hell is so wrong with that, weren't most of us here brought up with similar values in Ireland...... No?
Do you believe that the Earth was only created 5,000 years ago?
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 05:06:25 AM
[This has been doing the rounds here on left wing radio stations too, could you please explain how McCain can be tied to this
crisis but with not a single mention to the fact that Bill Clinton signed a Bill in '92 that got this whole thing on the path to
the slippery slope
What piece of leglislation was this specifically?
Quote
Bring them home... then what?
Pay others to clean up the mess you left behind, maybe some private security firm could do it for you? They've shown themselves to be very efficent in the past, eh?
Seriously though - republicans have proven themselves to be way out of their depth on this, the only answer is for the UN (I know you don't really recognise them because you don't really believe in democracy) to send in peace keeping troops to sort it out because the Americans are beat.
Quote
to the Last 8 yrs
[\quote]
You've just had the most unsuccssful president in the history of the USA - do you think the dems are not going to link him to the republicans that are trying to success him? Seriously?
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 05:28:15 AM
QuoteBush is an unpopular president: of course Obama is going to try and tie his party's candidate to him.
That would be fine if he wasn't speaking at rallies and the debate actually that now is not the time for finger pointing
with regards to the crisis we're in.......wonder why :-X
Well there's more to talk about than just the current financial crisis, but I take your point.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 05:27:48 AM
QuoteI missed that bit. She said that was McCain's view or her own?
She said "I share John McCains view"
Well its good to see she's not totally impervious to science, even if only for prime time! ;)
I still think I'll wake up and discover that the whole Sarah Palin thing was a comedy spoof. I cannot actually believe that she's real. Listened to it this morning and started laughing to myself when she went off on the soccer field monologue. Mention Fear,Fight and Freedom and it seems your guaranteed to appeal to "middle" america whatever that term means. Frightening stuff. Whatever my reservations about Obama I think that McCain/Palin would be an absolute disaster but then again we've had 8 years of GWB and that went so well so why bother changing!!!!!
QuoteWhat piece of leglislation was this specifically?
Sure look it up, who knows you might actually educate yourself.
Australia definitely gained ground the day you landed, are there not enough
underlying problems down there for you to be concerned with without spouting
your ignorance for what's going on in America.......but then again its the boy's that
don't reside here that seem to be the experts and want to make names for yourselves
with your in-depth knowledge and expertize on this subject ::)
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/7827/palinxy5.jpg (http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/7827/palinxy5.jpg)
Sarah Palin's facebook page
Quotebut then again its the boy's that don't reside here that seem to be the experts and want to make names for yourselves with your in-depth knowledge and expertize on this subject
My brother lives in the US and has done for a while now so I take an even keener interest than I did previously even though I had a considerable interest anyway. He's told me all about your type and why he avoids Irish Americans. Seem to me he is right. There's some ould doll in Chicago that has a (fairly popular) radio programme who drives a car with reg number "IRA 69" on it. You people need to grow up and move on.
And don't try to tell anyone to educate themselves again cos its getting a little annoying at this stage. Education is not a problem in this country thankfully.
QuoteHe's told me all about your type
Do you believe all your told... that's right you do how else could you explain
your strong opinion and vast knowledge of what goes on here.
And go on tell me, what exactly is "my type"
Quoteand why he avoids Irish Americans
I'm not an Irish American ::)
QuoteSeem to me he is right.
About what exactly ???
QuoteThere's some ould doll in Chicago that has a (fairly popular) radio programme who drives a car with reg number "IRA 69"
What in under a Fcuk has this to do with me *shakes head*
QuoteYou people need to grow up and move on.
Who Me? because some ould doll 2 thousand mile from me Has an IRA number plate :o
and you say there's nothing wrong with the education system back there.....really
Look lads the only reason you all have your pig tails in a twist this morning is simply because
a huge part of the 70 odd million people only tuned in to see her collapse and fail under the pressure
of the media and Big Joe Biden.......Didn't happen and you just can't stand it, admit it i dare ye ;D
Watched the VP debate. Frightening stuff indeed. Biden didn't exactly impress me, but it is scary that some one with so little experience or understanding of the world, like Palin, could be one stroke away from having their hands on the levers of power. What was even more frightening was listening the lunchtime show on Newstalk later, and an American (not sure who) claiming becuase Palin had debated with Biden she proved she was up to doing the Vice-Presidents job? They obviously don't expect much from their VPs, walking and chewing gum at the same time being a bonus. I know people have mentioned that Dan Quayle was no better, and I would agree with that, but I have to say on the balance of probabilities if McCain is elected president he is unlikely to complete his term. For that reason alone I would be concerned about McCain winning...if liberalism is indeed a mental disorder, creationism is an aneurysm.
Quotebut it is scary that some one with so little experience
Let me see if I have this straight, Govenor Palin simply hasn't the required experience
to run for
Vice President but Barack Obama in your eyes does have the required
experience to become
president ???
If all of ye are going to gang up and bully me like we're on the school playground then while you're
all together please explain to me collectively what on earth he has accomplished to warrant such worthyness
One or two issues will suffice lads, I won't go too hard on ye.............. :-\
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 09:11:05 PM
Quotebut it is scary that some one with so little experience
Let me see if I have this straight, Govenor Palin simply hasn't the required experience
to run for Vice President but Barack Obama in your eyes does have the required
experience to become president ???
If all of ye are going to gang up and bully me like we're on the school playground then while you're
all together please explain to me collectively what on earth he has accomplished to warrant such worthyness
One or two issues will suffice lads, I won't go too hard on ye.............. :-\
I'm no Obama fan either but at least he doesn't believe the world is only 6000 years old. Amn that is real flat earth stuff, she would be at home with some of the loons in the DUP.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 09:11:05 PM
Quotebut it is scary that some one with so little experience
Let me see if I have this straight, Govenor Palin simply hasn't the required experience
to run for Vice President but Barack Obama in your eyes does have the required
experience to become president ???
If all of ye are going to gang up and bully me like we're on the school playground then while you're
all together please explain to me collectively what on earth he has accomplished to warrant such worthyness
One or two issues will suffice lads, I won't go too hard on ye.............. :-\
First, I don't see the VP v president distinction as significant in terms of experience, especially this time around. The VP has to be prepared to step in at any moment, which in McCain's case, more than usual, may happen at some point.
As for the worthiness displayed so far, Palin is the one who, until last night, had been gibbering like an idiot for the past couple of weeks on all kinds of issues. Obama has been speaking intelligently on these issues for the virtually two years he's been running. You can disagree with his interpretations and potential policy choices, but he is unquestionably well informed. Palin's disadvantage is obviously due, at least to some degree, to her late entry into the race, and hopefully, assuming she's elected, she will overcome that. Obviously her modest amount of actual executive experience bests Obama's, but I don't see it as being enough to make a dent in Obama's position as the more impressive candidate, in my opinion. However, even if she hands-down beat Obama on all fronts when it came to experience, the woman just alienates me.
Leaving political leanings aside, whether being intelligent and in command of the issues is enough for Obama to start into a presidential term is obviously a valid question. We were assured in 2000 that Bush's disinterest and inexperience in foreign affairs and other sections of government wouldn't matter too much as he would appoint strong people to advise him and head up the various sections of the executive branch. I see no reason why that standard shouldn't apply to Obama as well in terms of appointing serious people to assist him. I would hope that he would take departments and agencies like FEMA a bit more seriously than Bush did in this regard though. I don't know which presidential leadership style is the best - some, like Reagan and GW Bush, seemed to prefer setting out the broad goals and letting their people get on with the details, while people like Clinton and Lincoln liked to get involved in the minutiae of policy and strategy. Both forms have met with success and failure and it obviously depends on the people involved and the circumstances they find themselves in. The greatest presidents tend to coincide with the greatest crises or changes.
Anyway, the most inexperienced and "unqualified" presidential candidate in US history was another Illinois lawyer with a gift for oratory as well, but Lincoln turned out to be arguably (definitely in my opinion) the greatest president, if not the greatest American, in US history. Obviously Lincoln's life guarantees nothing whatsoever in relation to Obama, but it does illustrate that the experience issue is not the be-all and end-all. Lincoln's predecessor, James Buchanan, had the most impressive CV of any presidential candidate ever, and he is consistently ranked as the worst or second-worst president ever (him and Harding generally share the two bottom spots). More recently, candidates like LBJ, Nixon and Bush senior had highly impressive CVs as well, but their administrations had very mixed fortunes.
The bottom line is that I personally have no worries that Obama will go in on Day 1 and find himself out of his depth. He just seems like a highly intelligent and capable guy to me, and I agree with him on more of the issues that matter most to me than I do with the McCain ticket, which is the most important factor in my choice.
.
The bottom line is that I personally have no worries that Obama will go in on Day 1 and find himself out of his depth. He just seems like a highly intelligent and capable guy to me, and I agree with him on more of the issues that matter most to me than I do with the McCain ticket, which is the most important factor in my choice.
[/quote]
Not sure, the U.S needs somebody coming into office with an agenda to raise taxes on the "rich" any household above $250,000. Not so rich if you have a few kids in college at 40-50k after tax dollars a pop, and live in an area where real estate taxes are north of 15k. do the math.
That bracket for the most part are also the group (aside from the government) that hire the most workers. Reality check; make payroll taxes higher = less people employed, if he gets elected God help successful people.
I have nothing against him personally, but his policies in this environment would be a disaster.
Quote from: joemamas on October 04, 2008, 01:23:18 AM
.
Quote
The bottom line is that I personally have no worries that Obama will go in on Day 1 and find himself out of his depth. He just seems like a highly intelligent and capable guy to me, and I agree with him on more of the issues that matter most to me than I do with the McCain ticket, which is the most important factor in my choice.
Not sure, the U.S needs somebody coming into office with an agenda to raise taxes on the "rich" any household above $250,000. Not so rich if you have a few kids in college at 40-50k after tax dollars a pop, and live in an area where real estate taxes are north of 15k. do the math.
That bracket for the most part are also the group (aside from the government) that hire the most workers. Reality check; make payroll taxes higher = less people employed, if he gets elected God help successful people.
I have nothing against him personally, but his policies in this environment would be a disaster.
Whereas lowering taxes for the vast majority of people will increase spending power and support business. However, Obama did say in his O'Reilly interview last month that the tax raise for the top 5% would be subject to reconsideration should economic conditions not be favourable.
As for 50k college tuition, there are plenty of options in damn good universities that cost a whole lot less. Get your children to try going to public colleges in-state, and you will pay a small fraction of that. If you want your children to go to Harvard, then you have to pay the huge fees, but there is no reason a young person cannot get a high-quality college eduction for much, much less that the cost of Ivy League universities.
Fair decent post J most I'd agree with and some i do not, so do i take from it though
that he has in actuality accomplished nothing of note but in your opinion has everything to offer going forward,
the problem I have with that is that instead of focusing on his plans for the future of this country, he just can't help but
live in the past..... Bush this Bush that, I know none of you agree but he's actually not running against Bush and the public
are getting tired of the same old blame Bush rhetoric.
Time to move on unless of course his lack of real substance prohibits such a move.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 04, 2008, 02:51:41 AM
Fair decent post J most I'd agree with and some i do not, so do i take from it though
that he has in actuality accomplished nothing of note but in your opinion has everything to offer going forward,
the problem I have with that is that instead of focusing on his plans for the future of this country, he just can't help but
live in the past..... Bush this Bush that, I know none of you agree but he's actually not running against Bush and the public
are getting tired of the same old blame Bush rhetoric.
Time to move on unless of course his lack of real substance prohibits such a move.
But he's running against the Republican party as well as the individual John McCain. GW Bush, despite his obvious sidelining in the public mind over the past few weeks, is, at least in name for another three months, the leader of the party. Any presidential candidate would tie their opponent to the unpopular elements of their party, especially a president with such low ratings. They'd be idiots not to. But having said that, most of the references I have heard to Bush by the Obama campaign have been in the form of McCain's policies being a continuation of the policies of the Bush administration for the past eight years. That, if true in the case of a particular policy, is a perfectly valid argument to make, particularly if McCain is claiming to be a "maverick" and a departure from Bush. Similarly, there is nothing stopping (and I'm sure they are doing it) McCain and Palin using Pelosi and Reid to attack Obama.
From J70Whereas lowering taxes for the vast majority of people will increase spending power and support business. However, Obama did say in his O'Reilly interview last month that the tax raise for the top 5% would be subject to reconsideration should economic conditions not be favourable.
As for 50k college tuition, there are plenty of options in damn good universities that cost a whole lot less. Get your children to try going to public colleges in-state, and you will pay a small fraction of that. If you want your children to go to Harvard, then you have to pay the huge fees, but there is no reason a young person cannot get a high-quality college eduction for much, much less that the cost of Ivy League universities.
J70
Reality check,
A lot of US companies (not saying they are right in what they do) only recruit from certain colleges, not just Ivy League like Harvard etc,
If you are not prepared to spend your money for education, you are not doing your kid a lot of favours.
All private (non state schools) cost 30k +, personally I think it is a racket, but back to my original point, just because you earn 250k in the US does not make you rich.
Quote from: joemamas on October 04, 2008, 07:52:11 PM
J70
Reality check,
A lot of US companies (not saying they are right in what they do) only recruit from certain colleges, not just Ivy League like Harvard etc,
If you are not prepared to spend your money for education, you are not doing your kid a lot of favours.
All private (non state schools) cost 30k +, personally I think it is a racket, but back to my original point, just because you earn 250k in the US does not make you rich.
If you insist that your child has to be educated at one of those colleges, that is your choice. You can either pay for it or see them win scholarships. I'm saying that the vast majority of people don't go to those elite schools, yet still manage to build fine lives for themselves. The notion that your child will enter the world handicapped just because he had to attend a perfectly decent state university is bollocks, in my opinion. Yes, they might not get into the elite NY law firm or investment bank straight out of college, but so what? I've a sibling working as a doctor in a top US hospital, and her education took place in plain, unheralded UCD.
And yes, 250K doesn't necessarily make you stinking rich, but you're still far better off than the vast, vast majority of your fellow citizens.
I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck.. ::)
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama :o that most here have a hard on for :-[
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 05, 2008, 12:21:07 AM
I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck.. ::)
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama :o that most here have a hard on for :-[
What's this about TO?
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 05, 2008, 12:21:07 AM
I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck.. ::)
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama :o that most here have a hard on for :-[
I cannot stomach more than two minutes of Hannity and his "evenhandedness". I'll pass. But let them go back to trying to win the election on Ayres. McCain previously said that he wouldn't stoop to questioning Obama's patriotism, but if that is the best they can do under the circumstances they now find themselves in...
You never really answered a question about this a while back TO. If you were voting back home in Northern Ireland, would a prospective candidate's ties to Sinn Fein or the IRA, even if as tenuous as Obama's ties to terrorism through Ayres, cause you to not vote for them?
QuoteBut let them go back to trying to win the election on Ayres.
Like it's no big deal...am I hearing you right ???
QuoteYou never really answered a question about this a while back TO. If you were voting back home in Northern Ireland, would a prospective candidate's ties to Sinn Fein or the IRA, even if as tenuous as Obama's ties to terrorism through Ayres, cause you to not vote for them?
I thought i answered it very clearly J, It was a silly question at the time and my answer remains
the same..........I'm not running for office in the British Parliament
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 05, 2008, 01:29:56 AM
QuoteBut let them go back to trying to win the election on Ayres.
Like it's no big deal...am I hearing you right ???
I do not see it as a big deal whatsoever. Working with Ayres, who was a big figure in education in Chicago politics, does not represent an endorsement of his former group's actions in bombing federal buildings or statues.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 05, 2008, 01:29:56 AM
QuoteYou never really answered a question about this a while back TO. If you were voting back home in Northern Ireland, would a prospective candidate's ties to Sinn Fein or the IRA, even if as tenuous as Obama's ties to terrorism through Ayres, cause you to not vote for them?
I thought i answered it very clearly J, It was a silly question at the time and my answer remains
the same..........I'm not running for office in the British Parliament
How is it silly? You're castigating people for voting for Obama because of he worked on various issues in Chicago with someone with a violent, terrorist past. Yet you will not answer a simple question on whether you would or would not vote for Sinn Fein or anyone who worked with figures formerly involved in terrorism in Northern Ireland. Whether you yourself are running for office in Britain is irrelevant. Its a simple question if you expect the rest of us to take your "terrorism" objection to Obama seriously.
Quote from: joemamas on October 04, 2008, 07:52:11 PM
Reality check,
A lot of US companies (not saying they are right in what they do) only recruit from certain colleges, not just Ivy League like Harvard etc,
If you are not prepared to spend your money for education, you are not doing your kid a lot of favours.
All private (non state schools) cost 30k +, personally I think it is a racket, but back to my original point, just because you earn 250k in the US does not make you rich.
I have a few points, by recruit do you mean a) send people to their recruitment fair, b) or accept and employ applicants from? If a) then name 1 firm in the world that can send recruiters to every college in the US, and if you mean b) name one...
Next, if you earn 142k in the US you're in the top 5% of household incomes (US Census 2001), so to earn 250k puts you in a very comfortable position, however you're right earning 250k doesn't make you rich, it makes you well paid, what you do with your money is what makes you rich or otherwise. If you choose to pay 50 k a year to send your kid to harvard and you didn't use a 529 plan ( an American tax free savings plan that be started for a kid before they are born) or a CESA, well again that puts you in the well paid and not rich bracket (and rather unlikely to be).
If you're seriously complaining about earning 250k and having no money to spend I'll happily send you the name of 5/6 accountants who will pay for themselves within 10 minutes of you being in their office.
I'm not really a fan of either candidate, my ideal President would have been Mike Bloomberg running as an independent, but then he didn't need to raise a penny in contributions, has run the biggest city in the world, worked and made his (mini) fortune in banking and then made his (massive) fortune by starting an IT and Communications company. But then he's Jewish so that means rednecks and fundamentalists won't vote for him. The Republicans in picking McCain seem to have gone with the Democrats last election tactic- the least offensive gets the Nod. Ron Paul would have been interesting but just a wee bit too far out there. I was pleasantly surprised that Obama got the Dem nomination over Hilary, both of whom would have been two ridiculously bright candidates. Obama was raised mixed race by a single Mom and goes on to become president of the Harvard Law review, John McCain went to the Naval academy and despite (or because of) his father and grand father being 4 star generals in the Navy managed to graduate 894 out of 899 in his class.
As for those who trot out the Republican's can handle the economy better drivel http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_05/006282.php
And that debate finishes before it starts.
But then why would you bother to listen to the Republican ads and mantra this campaign? well to be fair they have both been full of crap http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_whoppers_of_2008.html however the McCain campaign has really taken it to new heights (or depths) http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1842030,00.html
In terms of who I'd prefer spending my taxes I think I'd prefer Obama in charge. In February of this year John mcCain said "the economy is not my strong suit" given the times we live in- Im not comfortable with that attitude.
As Chris Rock says of McCain, just cos he got caught doesn't make him a hero it makes him dumb enough to get caught. John McCain was held in a Korean Prisoner of war camp for 6 years from 67 to 73, and that left him with huge physical scarring- no-one ever seemed to discuss his mental health until recently and strangley those part of his heath records pertaining to his mental health were absent from the 140 page brief that journalists (non-medical ones only mind you) were allowed to peruse but not copy. Mc Cain has pubicly stated that he broke under torture and was suicidal.
Are you sure that this is the guy you want deciding where to send the worlds most powerful military? I know Mandela suffered terribly in captivity but trust me, John McCain is no Nelson Mandela
Still, I can't vote so it doesn't really count for shit, so lets look at who can: how many of those polled who sincerely believe that race is a big issue in this debate are likely to state that in a poll over the phone with someone they have never met? well less than 2 weeks ago 40% of white voters in an AP poll said that. If 40% are saying it, how many more do you think are praying to Jesus every night that the next president better be white (just like Jesus :o ??? ) In fact half of those polled who were democrats voting for McCain said it was because of race.
Can Obama win? maybe
Should Obama win? probably
Will the world and America be better off if Obama wins? Your call
In summary I should defer to the wisdom of my Grandfather "anyone who wants to run for political office should be barred from that position on those grounds alone"
Oh and one more point, being centrist politically in most parts of Europe does mean that you're perceived as a liberal lefty in the US. Excuse Tyrone's own, who is certainly not Irish american, but very definitely an Irishman in the States, and to be fair to him his views on the subject of American politics are in my experience an accurate reflection of the vast majority of Irish men and women living there.
HB
McCain/Palin have been advised to go negative & fight dirty. All the positive ads about McCain's war record and long service in the Senate have been pulled. The Palin speech linking Obama to terrorism is just the start. The whole campaign will now get very dirty. McCain has weak spots too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI&NR=1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvesa49zSIM&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvesa49zSIM&NR=1)
I'm convinced McCain will win and the 11/4 widely available is very appealling. Never underestimate the race factor.
Quote from: heganboy on October 05, 2008, 03:08:49 AM
Quote from: joemamas on October 04, 2008, 07:52:11 PM
Reality check,
A lot of US companies (not saying they are right in what they do) only recruit from certain colleges, not just Ivy League like Harvard etc,
If you are not prepared to spend your money for education, you are not doing your kid a lot of favours.
All private (non state schools) cost 30k +, personally I think it is a racket, but back to my original point, just because you earn 250k in the US does not make you rich.
I have a few points, by recruit do you mean a) send people to their recruitment fair, b) or accept and employ applicants from? If a) then name 1 firm in the world that can send recruiters to every college in the US, and if you mean b) name one...
Next, if you earn 142k in the US you're in the top 5% of household incomes (US Census 2001), so to earn 250k puts you in a very comfortable position, however you're right earning 250k doesn't make you rich, it makes you well paid, what you do with your money is what makes you rich or otherwise. If you choose to pay 50 k a year to send your kid to harvard and you didn't use a 529 plan ( an American tax free savings plan that be started for a kid before they are born) or a CESA, well again that puts you in the well paid and not rich bracket (and rather unlikely to be).
If you're seriously complaining about earning 250k and having no money to spend I'll happily send you the name of 5/6 accountants who will pay for themselves within 10 minutes of you being in their office.
My last response to this post,
Fact, almost all private (non states schools) cost in excess of 30k , most by the time your finished with expenses end up at 40k+ after tax dollars. stop using Harvard as an example . How abouth Fordham University in New York Or Manhattan College both 40k or thereabouts for college and room and board.
I am not complaining about people who make 250k , I used that number as Obama considers that to be the threshold for being rich. Please read my original point and stop putting words in my mouth, where did I mention about having no money to spend.
The second part of my point was if you increase the tax on employers , what generally happens, they hire less and make the current staff increase productivity. Obama policies appeal to his support base, but when you drill down they are many things that do not add up.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 05, 2008, 12:21:07 AM
I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck.. ::)
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama :o that most here have a hard on for :-[
Well now we know the GOP are desperate - absolutely disgraceful stuff!
This shows desperation but I'm sure Obama is prepared for it. I don't think they can damage Obama enough though and they are showing themselves up as having nothing to offer only old ways and spite.
Quoteabsolutely disgraceful stuff!
The expert conveyor just keeps turning them out :D ...please do explain in detail exactly what is disgraceful about it? tell me you wouldn't be against the American public
being made aware of just exactly where Obama's long illustrious career in politics got off the ground and received it's funding at the beginning ???
QuoteThis shows desperation but I'm sure Obama is prepared for it. I don't think they can damage Obama enough though and they are showing themselves up as having nothing to offer only old ways and spite.
Care to answer any of my questions Seanie before moving on to the next ill thought out show of ignorance ::)
QuoteYou're castigating people for voting for Obama because of he worked on various issues in Chicago with someone with a violent, terrorist past.
Yes and one who to date is completely unrepentant for his actions and remember, he along with his wonderful wife were quoted in 2001 as having
said "we didn't do enough and we'd do it over again" yes that was 2001... surely this blows the Obama being 8 yrs old excuse out of the water.
now can you honestly tell me with a straight face that this does not call Obama's judgement as to who he surrounds himself with in to play ???
In your own words J, if the shoe was on the other foot...it would have been a TKO months ago ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 05, 2008, 10:26:04 PM
QuoteYou're castigating people for voting for Obama because of he worked on various issues in Chicago with someone with a violent, terrorist past.
Yes and one who to date is completely unrepentant for his actions and remember, he along with his wonderful wife were quoted in 2001 as having
said "we didn't do enough and we'd do it over again" yes that was 2001... surely this blows the Obama being 8 yrs old excuse out of the water.
now can you honestly tell me with a straight face that this does not call Obama's judgement as to who he surrounds himself with in to play ???
In your own words J, if the shoe was on the other foot...it would have been a TKO months ago ;)
Yet Ayers maintains that in that 2001 interview he was talking about opposition to the Vietnam War, not the bombs, when it came to not doing enough. But regardless, in terms of Obama's judgement, I think it was politically naive, as in its now a distraction coming back to bite him on the arse. Beyond that, I couldn't give a f**k about Ayers. He was a university professor who was very influential in Chicago education policy, so Obama worked with him. He didn't go around fomenting terrorism or setting off bombs with him.
But again, this terrorism link seems very important to you, so are you going to answer the question on Sinn Fein and NI politics or not? Would you, or would you not, vote for a Sinn Fein candidate or anyone in NI who had worked, in any capacity, with terrorists?
QuoteWould you, or would you not, vote for a Sinn Fein candidate or anyone in NI who had worked, in any capacity, with terrorists?
No offense J but I won't be drawn into an ethics boxing match with regards to my political stance or beliefs In the
North of Ireland especially with a Free-stater ;) it's apples and oranges sure even Hardstation pulled you up on it :P
QuoteIn your own words J, if the shoe was on the other foot...it would have been a TKO months ago ;)
This is the one I really wanted you to touch on........ :-X
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 06, 2008, 02:18:43 AM
QuoteWould you, or would you not, vote for a Sinn Fein candidate or anyone in NI who had worked, in any capacity, with terrorists?
No offense J but I won't be drawn into an ethics boxing match with regards to my political stance or beliefs In the North of Ireland
especially with a Free-stater ;) it's apples and oranges sure even Hardstation pulled you up on it :P
Your choice, but it looks like double standards to me.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 06, 2008, 02:18:43 AM
QuoteIn your own words J, if the shoe was on the other foot...it would have been a TKO months ago ;)
This is the one I really wanted you to touch on........ :-X
Maybe, maybe not. It is not for lack of coverage that it hasn't resulted in Obama's failure though. Anyone who has paid the slightest bit of attention to this campaign knows about Ayers, Wright and so on, going all the way back to the spring when Clinton was driving it. We heard about little else for about three months going into the summer. O'Reilly grilled him on it in their interview last month.
How was Hannity's show BTW? I flicked over for a minute during a break in the premiership highlights, and it was the same tape of Rev Wright that had been played over and over throughout the spring? Any new and potentially devastating revelations?
Yes some pretty scary associations to radicalism with names I'd heard but hadn't time to research,
I'm sure you'll be reading about it but you might have to go to alternative news sources than
what you used to ;)
Sean Hannity and Fox News giving a fair an open minded show on Barrack Obama is like an Atheist preaching scripture- a total joke.
Ayers and Obama worked together, when Ayers was "active" with his protests Obama was 8yrs old.
Kahlidi and Obama were neighbors whose kids went to the same school. He ate dinner with the Kahlidis and discussed American and Muslim views on global relations. :o
The whole show was an Anti Obama smear campaign that the Republicans have again stooped down to because the election looks in doubt.
The only radical ideals or association in the program were how the Republicans and Fox News are in bed together.
I really do not consider myself a Democrat or Republican more of an Independent who can think for myself and doesn't have to be lead by a defined group to see who would be the best man/woman for an elected position.
What I witnessed tonite on Hannity was a blatant attack using more fear tactics that were used by "W" to win his election.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 06, 2008, 04:55:12 AM
Yes some pretty scary associations to radicalism with names I'd heard but hadn't time to research,
I'm sure you'll be reading about it but you might have to go to alternative news sources than
what you used to ;)
On the contrary, I listen to quite a bit of talk radio (not Hannity as, as I've said, I just cannot stomach him), read many articles on websites like Townhall and National Review and I'm a subscriber to The Economist (not very sympathetic to the religious right, but certainly a fiscal conservative publication). I am not really interested in just hearing my opinions and prejudices reinforced day in and day out, which is why I like to read opinions from opposing philosophoes. I do not swallow most of what they say, but that doesn't mean that I don't hear them. It boggles my mind when you read people on websites like FreeRepublic boasting about how they only get their news from talk radio and Fox News, but still maintain that they are well informed. How much reading do you do of non-right wing media? Surely you don't get all of your news from the likes of Michael Savage?
Quote from: DrinknHarp on October 06, 2008, 06:05:45 AM
Sean Hannity and Fox News giving a fair an open minded show on Barrack Obama is like an Atheist preaching scripture- a total joke.
Ayers and Obama worked together, when Ayers was "active" with his protests Obama was 8yrs old.
Kahlidi and Obama were neighbors whose kids went to the same school. He ate dinner with the Kahlidis and discussed American and Muslim views on global relations. :o
The whole show was an Anti Obama smear campaign that the Republicans have again stooped down to because the election looks in doubt.
The only radical ideals or association in the program were how the Republicans and Fox News are in bed together.
I really do not consider myself a Democrat or Republican more of an Independent who can think for myself and doesn't have to be lead by a defined group to see who would be the best man/woman for an elected position.
What I witnessed tonite on Hannity was a blatant attack using more fear tactics that were used by "W" to win his election.
Hannity is an utter sc**bag.
Looks like Obama is going to get down in the muck as well...
Quote from campaign email:
"Over the weekend, John McCain's top adviser announced their plan to stop engaging in a debate over the economy and "turn the page" to more direct, personal attacks on Barack Obama.
In the middle of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, they want to change the subject from the central question of this election. Perhaps because the policies McCain supported these past eight years and wants to continue are pretty hard to defend.
But it's not just McCain's role in the current crisis that they're avoiding. The backward economic philosophy and culture of corruption that helped create the current crisis are looking more and more like the other major financial crisis of our time.
During the savings and loan crisis of the late '80s and early '90s, McCain's political favors and aggressive support for deregulation put him at the center of the fall of Lincoln Savings and Loan, one of the largest in the country. More than 23,000 investors lost their savings. Overall, the savings and loan crisis required the federal government to bail out the savings of hundreds of thousands of families and ultimately cost American taxpayers $124 billion.
Sound familiar?
In that crisis, John McCain and his political patron, Charles Keating, played central roles that ultimately landed Keating in jail for fraud and McCain in front of the Senate Ethics Committee. The McCain campaign has tried to avoid talking about the scandal, but with so many parallels to the current crisis, McCain's Keating history is relevant and voters deserve to know the facts -- and see for themselves the pattern of poor judgment by John McCain.
So at noon Eastern on Monday, October 6th, we're releasing a 13-minute documentary about the scandal called "Keating Economics: John McCain and the Making of a Financial Crisis" -- it will be available at KeatingEconomics.com, along with background information that every voter should know."
I'd have thought McCains voting record on the invasion of Iraq and his participation in bombing runs over Hanoi during the Vietnam war meant that he was actually involved in terrorist activities rather than Obama's links with Ayers?
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/vp-debate-open-palin-biden/727421/ (http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/vp-debate-open-palin-biden/727421/)
"McCain lacked judgment on issue of visa for Adams"
"McCain followed Britain's lead and opposed giving Gerry Adams the visa. He described Clinton's involvement in Northern Ireland as "mistaken"."
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1006/1222959409718.html
As a die hard republician I have to say I am ashamed of the shift in tactics and the personal assaults on Obama. I would have been fine if the latest allegations had played out months ago but instead of playing their cards when they had them Mccain and the republicians waited until desperation set it before changing course towards extreme negativism and fear mongering. I hope the electorate see through it for what it is and shy away from being sucked into the Mccarthyesque fear mongering that Mccain has employed here.
McCain is going to lose, he seems to fear talking about the economy because he doesnt know what to do about it and if obama is any sort of orator at all he will steer the conversation back to what needs to get talked about which is the economy and away from who he broke bread with 40 years ago.
I feckin hate politicians. >:(
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2008, 10:43:39 PM
As a die hard republician I have to say I am ashamed of the shift in tactics and the personal assaults on Obama. I would have been fine if the latest allegations had played out months ago but instead of playing their cards when they had them Mccain and the republicians waited until desperation set it before changing course towards extreme negativism and fear mongering. I hope the electorate see through it for what it is and shy away from being sucked into the Mccarthyesque fear mongering that Mccain has employed here.
McCain is going to lose, he seems to fear talking about the economy because he doesnt know what to do about it and if obama is any sort of orator at all he will steer the conversation back to what needs to get talked about which is the economy and away from who he broke bread with 40 years ago.
I feckin hate politicians. >:(
Looks like I won't need a new shovel ;)
Now apparently it has come out that John Glenn, who like McCain was indicted but cleared in the Keating scandal, has been doing some campaign work for the Obama campaign. Kind of takes the steam out that particular counter-attack. :(
I don't know Stew. This is going to be very, very tight. If there is one that the Republicans are far more effective and organized at, its dirty campaigning. From Willie Horton to characterizing Gore as an arrogant liar to the utterly, odious swiftboat campaign against Kerry, they seem to know how to manipulate the people that little bit better. This is probably going to be more of the same and will probably work too. Don't be surprised to hear murmurings about race riots if McCain wins, just to instill that little more resentment and motivation into the "silent majority". It would have been useful for Obama to have the Clinton people on board, as they are among the few Democrats who can match the Republicans in this kind of dirty politics.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 02:25:53 PM
QuoteWhat piece of leglislation was this specifically?
Sure look it up, who knows you might actually educate yourself.
Australia definitely gained ground the day you landed, are there not enough
underlying problems down there for you to be concerned with without spouting
your ignorance for what's going on in America.......but then again its the boy's that
don't reside here that seem to be the experts and want to make names for yourselves
with your in-depth knowledge and expertize on this subject ::)
;D :D ;D What a redneck - brilliant
QuoteWhat a redneck - brilliant
Ah yes.... yet another quality empty headed attempt at a retort :-[
Seriously, with the exception of J70 who is at least willing to make an attempt to debate
his beliefs, are the rest of you in a competition as to who can be the biggest
embarrassment on a subject that has A) nothing at all to do with ye
and B) has been fairly obvious now for 36 pages that most of you know little to nothing about
bar what ye read in your leftist blogs.....but hey feel free to vent that pent up anger and blinkered hatred!
I actually left Ireland to get away from it...it's not healthy lads :-\
There's absolutely no point - you make things up and when questioned on it or asked to back it up you resort to trying to get the person that's asking you about it to look it up, onus of proof lies with you. Pure theatre watching you scramble whilst spluttering nervously back at anyone that has the temerity to question your inane ramblings in the first place :D :D
What exactly have i made up and i'll be glad to explain it to you!
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 07, 2008, 01:34:28 AM
What exactly have i made up and i'll be glad to explain it to you!
Just as i thought, you remind me of a hurry up and hold me back type of lad Stephenite.......how embarrassing :-[
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 07, 2008, 01:34:28 AM
What exactly have i made up and i'll be glad to explain it to you!
the rest of you in a competition as to who can be the biggest
embarrassment on a subject that has A) nothing at all to do with ye
and B) has been fairly obvious now for 36 pages that most of you know little to nothing about
bar what ye read in your leftist blogs.....but hey feel free to vent that pent up anger and blinkered hatred!
-----------------------------
You made that up.
Are you boys.............. You left a very important word out of it that renders it a question :D
Ok I'm guilty of making up a question :D *shakes head* :D
Empty vessels the lot of ye ::)
You stated that Bill Clinton started the current entire economic mess with leglislation he signed back in 1992, I asked you what piece of leglislation and you told me to go and look for it myself, now considering you bought it up, the burden of proof rests with you, but I did try and search for it and I cannot find anything that Bill Clinton signed that started the current economic downturn.
Therefore you either a) Made it up or b) have access to online data that I don't that definitively prove Clinton's role in the current global crisis, which if you had I'd be interested in seeing it.
It's only fair I give you the option of proving me wrong - but I think you're lying :D
Clinton didn't take office until January 1993 by the way. ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 03, 2008, 05:06:25 AM
This has been doing the rounds here on left wing radio stations too, could you please explain how McCain can be tied to this
crisis but with not a single mention to the fact that Bill Clinton signed a Bill in '92 that got this whole thing on the path to
the slippery slope
Oh dear
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 07, 2008, 02:31:01 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 07, 2008, 01:34:28 AM
What exactly have i made up and i'll be glad to explain it to you!
how embarrassing :-[
:D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D
Quote from: stephenite on October 07, 2008, 02:55:17 AM
You stated that Bill Clinton started the current entire economic mess with leglislation he signed back in 1992, I asked you what piece of leglislation and you told me to go and look for it myself, now considering you bought it up, the burden of proof rests with you, but I did try and search for it and I cannot find anything that Bill Clinton signed that started the current economic downturn.
Therefore you either a) Made it up or b) have access to online data that I don't that definitively prove Clinton's role in the current global crisis, which if you had I'd be interested in seeing it.
It's only fair I give you the option of proving me wrong - but I think you're lying :D
Really.. ;)
One of the most frequently asked questions about the subprime market meltdown and housing crisis is: How did the government get so deeply involved in the housing market?
The answer is: President Clinton wanted it that way.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, even into the early 1990s, weren't the juggernauts they'd later be.
While President Carter in 1977 signed the Community Reinvestment Act, which pushed Fannie and Freddie to aggressively lend to minority communities, it was Clinton who supercharged the process.
After entering office in 1993, he extensively rewrote Fannie's and Freddie's rules. 1992In so doing, he turned the two quasi-private, mortgage-funding firms into a semi-nationalized monopoly that dispensed cash to markets, made loans to large Democratic voting blocs and handed favors, jobs and money to political allies. This potent mix led inevitably to corruption and the Fannie-Freddie collapse.
Despite warnings of trouble at Fannie and Freddie, in 1994 Clinton unveiled his National Homeownership Strategy, which broadened the CRA in ways Congress never intended.
Addressing the National Association of Realtors that year, Clinton bluntly told the group that "more Americans should own their own homes." He meant it.
Clinton saw homeownership as a way to open the door for blacks and other minorities to enter the middle class.
Though well-intended, the problem was that Congress was about to change hands, from the Democrats to the Republicans. Rather than submit legislation that the GOP-led Congress was almost sure to reject, Clinton ordered Robert Rubin's Treasury Department to rewrite the rules in 1995.
The rewrite, as City Journal noted back in 2000, "made getting a satisfactory CRA rating harder." Banks were given strict new numerical quotas and measures for the level of "diversity" in their loan portfolios. Getting a good CRA rating was key for a bank that wanted to expand or merge with another.
Loans started being made on the basis of race, and often little else.
"Bank examiners would use federal home-loan data, broken down by neighborhood, income group and race, to rate banks on performance," wrote Howard Husock, a scholar at the Manhattan Institute.
But those rules weren't enough.
Clinton got the Department of Housing and Urban Development to double-team the issue. That would later prove disastrous.
Clinton's HUD secretary, Andrew Cuomo, "made a series of decisions between 1997 and 2001 that gave birth to the country's current crisis," the liberal Village Voice noted. Among those decisions were changes that let Fannie and Freddie get into subprime loan markets in a big way.
Other rule changes gave Fannie and Freddie extraordinary leverage, allowing them to hold just 2.5% of capital to back their investments, vs. 10% for banks.
Since they could borrow at lower rates than banks due to implicit government guarantees for their debt, the government-sponsored enterprises boomed.
With incentives in place, banks poured billions of dollars of loans into poor communities, often "no doc" and "no income" loans that required no money down and no verification of income.
By 2007, Fannie and Freddie owned or guaranteed nearly half of the $12 trillion U.S. mortgage market -- a staggering exposure.
Worse still was the cronyism.
Fannie and Freddie became home to out-of-work politicians, mostly Clinton Democrats. An informal survey of their top officials shows a roughly 2-to-1 dominance of Democrats over Republicans.
Then there were the campaign donations. From 1989 to 2008, some 384 politicians got their tip jars filled by Fannie and Freddie.
Over that time, the two GSEs spent $200 million on lobbying and political activities. Their charitable foundations dropped millions more on think tanks and radical community groups.
Did it work? Well, if measured by the goal of putting more poor people into homes, the answer would have to be yes.
From 1995 to 2005, a Harvard study shows, minorities made up 49% of the 12.5 million new homeowners.
The problem is that many of those loans have now gone bad, and minority homeownership rates are shrinking fast.
Fannie and Freddie, with their massive loan portfolios stuffed with securitized mortgage-backed paper created from subprime loans, are a failed legacy of the Clinton era.
Quote from: stephenite on October 07, 2008, 03:56:41 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 07, 2008, 02:31:01 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 07, 2008, 01:34:28 AM
What exactly have i made up and i'll be glad to explain it to you!
how embarrassing :-[
:D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D
Seriously, what age are you?... 7 or 8, primary school youngsters wouldn't be at it :-[
tyrones own,
who would you vote for and why?
keep it short and sweet, i am half puerto rican and cannot concentrate for more than 3 minutes.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 07, 2008, 01:10:56 AM
QuoteWhat a redneck - brilliant
Ah yes.... yet another quality empty headed attempt at a retort :-[
Seriously, with the exception of J70 who is at least willing to make an attempt to debate
his beliefs, are the rest of you in a competition as to who can be the biggest
embarrassment on a subject that has A) nothing at all to do with ye
and B) has been fairly obvious now for 36 pages that most of you know little to nothing about
bar what ye read in your leftist blogs.....but hey feel free to vent that pent up anger and blinkered hatred!
I actually left Ireland to get away from it...it's not healthy lads :-\
No sh1t. You have definitely indoctrinated yourself with the locals. Where have you moved to Alabama or somewhere else in the deep south?
On a serious point you are obviously a supporter of McCain and the republican party where as a majority of Europeans would support Obama. From your point of view what is good about the republicans that would make an Obama supporter change to support them. Not what is wrong with Obama but what have the republicans done right over the last 8 years and will do in the future that is better than what the democrats would do?
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 07, 2008, 06:14:14 AM
Quote from: stephenite on October 07, 2008, 03:56:41 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 07, 2008, 02:31:01 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 07, 2008, 01:34:28 AM
What exactly have i made up and i'll be glad to explain it to you!
how embarrassing :-[
:D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D
Seriously, what age are you?... 7 or 8, primary school youngsters wouldn't be at it :-[
I'm really trying to flatter for you, given imitation is it's most sincerest form.
This isn't about a federal programme to give houses to the poor at an affordable rate.
The sub-prime time bomb was really created when mortgages were given at punitive rates to those who were highly unlikely to be able to pay. Those punitive reates initially generated massive yields which everyone in the capitalist world wanted part of. Every shareholder in every bank pointed to those yields and demanded the same. Everyone wanted a piece of the action. Unfortunately too many got it.
The real start of this whole cycle was the the fixing of the Chinese currency Yuan to the US Dollar. When the Bush administration later decided on a weak Dollar they did so in the knowledge that the standard of living in the States wouldn't take much of a hit as the Yuan was fixed to the Dollar, hence guaranteeing no change in the price of imports for China. However the Chinese ended up with a mountain of Dollars which they loaned back to the rest of the world at a very low interest rate. Hence the need for lower rates elsewhere.
Watching the US bi-polar politics at the moment is like watching two Neros blaming each other using violins. :'(
Quote from: DrinknHarp on October 06, 2008, 10:58:51 PM
Quote from: stew on October 06, 2008, 10:43:39 PM
As a die hard republician I have to say I am ashamed of the shift in tactics and the personal assaults on Obama. I would have been fine if the latest allegations had played out months ago but instead of playing their cards when they had them Mccain and the republicians waited until desperation set it before changing course towards extreme negativism and fear mongering. I hope the electorate see through it for what it is and shy away from being sucked into the Mccarthyesque fear mongering that Mccain has employed here.
McCain is going to lose, he seems to fear talking about the economy because he doesnt know what to do about it and if obama is any sort of orator at all he will steer the conversation back to what needs to get talked about which is the economy and away from who he broke bread with 40 years ago.
I feckin hate politicians. >:(
Looks like I won't need a new shovel ;)
:D
I'd forgot about that. Obama has a 5-6 point lead and I think will seal the deal tonight.
That said there are a lot of Democrats out there who will find it very tough to vote for a black man, i know, i talked to several of them. I think they are ignorant but if there is enough of them, especially in the southern states that might sway the vote however I still think Obama is the next Prez, and maybe, just maybe that might not be so bad.
Mother F#cking Son of B!tch !!!!
The Executives at AIG who were just bailed out by the taxpayers decided they needed a vacation/relaxing session.
The Executives of AIG and their representatives of various AIG subsidiaries spent time partying it up at plush St. Regis Monarch Beach Resort in Southern California after the U.S. taxpayers bailed out AIG for $85 BILLION.
I URGE/REQUEST that anyone who reads this will not do business with such a greedy, hypocritical Mother F$#king company.
Just today I had 3 customers who owe me money for work I performed (trades) said that don't know how they can pay me. My suppliers, warehouse space still want their money and I don't know if I will be able to pay because there will be more following suit and then I'm f*@ked.
So when I got home to hear these Execs who make well over a few million a year and pissed up their own company needed their company bailed out and then have the tenacity to go on such a spree has me bewildered.
Had to rant or I might have a stroke >:(
Couldn't agree more, was pissed when i heard that today...Ken lay went down the road for a lot less :-\
If some of these hoors' heads don't roll here there'll be no coming back from this
from a confidence standpoint. Crooked bastards the lot of them.. >:(
republican strategists feel a terrorist attack is required for a mc cain win
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/08/uselections2008.johnmccain
John McCain is heading to near-certain defeat in the presidential election because American voters no longer trust Republicans on the economy, a strategist for the party warned yesterday.
Steve Lombardo, who has worked on Republican campaigns since 1992 and advised McCain's opponent, Mitt Romney, in the primaries, said it would take a major external event, such as a terrorist attack or a crippling error by Barack Obama, for McCain to make a comeback.
"Basically unless there is some external event the dynamics of this race are being driven almost entirely by the financial situation here in the United States and globally, and that works for Barack Obama," Lombardo told the Guardian.
"If there isn't some sort of event or, God forbid, a terrorist attack that moves the election on to foreign affairs or national security, it is unlikely that McCain can regain the lead, just because voters have decided that the base of the problems they face are the Republican party, George Bush, and, by extension, John McCain."
McCain last night tried to get past Obama's advantage on the economy by making a personal connection with voters, in the second of three presidential debates in Nashville, Tennessee.
Taking advantage of a town hall format, McCain walked up to the studio audience to make his pitch. "I know how to get American working again," he said.
But the outlook for Republicans did not look good. Yesterday saw Bush brought to a new low. The 25% approval rating was recorded just after Congress approved a $700bn (£400bn) economic bailout, suggesting the public gave no credit to the White House for its rescue plan.
The rating, a new nadir for a historically unpopular president, puts Bush one point ahead of Richard Nixon on the eve of his departure in 1974. It is three points higher than the poll's all-time low for any president, Harry Truman's 22% in 1952.
Lombardo laid out his misgivings in a memo obtained by the Guardian, in which he wrote that McCain's attempts to make the election about Obama's character were unlikely to work. The memo argues such attacks at this point seem "desperate"; the time to define the Democrats' character had been in August - before the presidential debates. "The economic situation has virtually ended John McCain's presidential aspirations and no amount of tactical manoeuvring in the final 29 days is likely to change that equation," the memo said. "There are more turns to come in this election and it is not over yet but it sure seems like it is."
The memo said McCain lost the election on September 15 - two days after Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy - when he told a rally in Florida: "The fundamentals of the economy are strong."
McCain saw fresh signs yesterday of the damage to his prospects in polls showing him trailing in four battleground states and fighting to keep Indiana and North Carolina. He suffered another blow when the wife of a retiring Republican senator seen as one of the Republicans' experts on national security officially endorsed Obama. "We're in two wars, two of the longest we've ever been in. We've run up a third of our nation's debt in just the past eight years. We're in the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression," said Lilibet Hagel, whose husband, Chuck, is a senator from Nebraska.
With less than four weeks until election day, the slide in the polls brought an even more personal edge to McCain's attacks on Obama. The Democrats hit back with an ad released on cable networks yesterday, accusing McCain of being "out of ideas" and seeking to distract voters from America's economic problems. "With no plan to lift our economy up, John McCain wants to tear Barack Obama down," it said.
In the latest bad news for McCain, a Time magazine-CNN poll showed the Republican struggling to hold states Bush carried easily in 2004. In Indiana, Republican since 1964, McCain and Obama were tied among registered voters on 48%.
Palin, meanwhile, emerged as the attack dog. The vice-presidential candidate redirected her attack from Obama's association with 1960s radical Bill Ayers to Obama himself. "You mean he didn't know that he launched his political career in the living room of a domestic terrorist?" she asked a rally in Jacksonville.
Anyone watching the debate?
Fairly even first hour in my opinion. They both set out their points and the differences are clear for the voters.
Quote from: J70 on October 08, 2008, 03:10:03 AM
Anyone watching the debate?
Fairly even first hour in my opinion. They both set out their points and the differences are clear for the voters.
It is amazing how McCain can listen to Obama talk for 3 minutes then say "what he meant to say is .......".
Is his listening comprehension so bad or is it the act of a desperate man?
Thankfully no discussion so far on religious viewpoints or doctrine- should not be involved with government.
Talking heads on Fox aren't happy... too conventional and unrevealing they say. They wanted some questions on immigration or same-sex marriage, which I suppose would have been interesting.
I thought it was quite good though, although I didn't watch the full one the last day. I'd call it a draw overall. I don't think anything happened that will make much difference to the race. Both made their case, neither screwed up.
Obama is going to be president I think, unless he says something really stupid. Its hard to believe that Sarah Palin could get to be second in command and a 1 in 3 chance of being president in the four year term, I watched her and was shocked at how weak and uninformed she is, that was Mccains fatal mistake.
Its like bringing a drunk friend to a tough bar, he/she says the wrong thing and you get clobbered.
I thought McCain held his ground last night in the debate, but he needs to land a big punch in the next one to close it in. Even with a 6% or 7% lead I don't think Obama will win a clear victory, as I think in the privacy of the polling booth race will definitely be an issue. McCain didn't go negative last night, and you would have to believe it's because it's (1) not polling well with the mainstream electorate (2) didn't want to do it in a format where Obama could reply in kind. I have to say from a body language point of view McCain tried to use the stage but you can really see his physical problems - the inability to raise his arms due to his treatment in Vietnam etc. - and he just looks very old in comparison to Obama. It's a long way from over yet though.
On another note, heard this on the way in this morning:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06/mccain-does-nothing-as-cr_n_132366.html
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/06/in_fla_palin_goes_for_the_roug.html
The Republicans are playing a dangerous game with this so called terrorist link.
Quote from: Mentalman on October 08, 2008, 11:54:12 AM
I thought McCain held his ground last night in the debate, but he needs to land a big punch in the next one to close it in. Even with a 6% or 7% lead I don't think Obama will win a clear victory, as I think in the privacy of the polling booth race will definitely be an issue. McCain didn't go negative last night, and you would have to believe it's because it's (1) not polling well with the mainstream electorate (2) didn't want to do it in a format where Obama could reply in kind. I have to say from a body language point of view McCain tried to use the stage but you can really see his physical problems - the inability to raise his arms due to his treatment in Vietnam etc. - and he just looks very old in comparison to Obama. It's a long way from over yet though.
On another note, heard this on the way in this morning:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06/mccain-does-nothing-as-cr_n_132366.html
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/06/in_fla_palin_goes_for_the_roug.html
The Republicans are playing a dangerous game with this so called terrorist link.
I've been thinking that for a while, I reckon Obama needs a 10% lead in the polls.
Paddypower is giving 7-2 about McCain if you fancy him.
I thought he was poor enough in the debate last night. Obama was strong on wanting to get after Bin Laden even if he's in Pakistan, pretty 'manly' position for the liberal.
Could there actually be a surprize in this election yet?
http://www.tsgnet.com/pres.php?id=357563&altf=Uzspoft1Pxo&altl=
;) :D
I thought that auld one was going to drop her trousers there for a second! :o :D
John Cleese has put his admiration for Sean Hannity into verse... :)
Ode to Sean Hannity
by John Cleese
Aping urbanity
Oozing with vanity
Plump as a manatee
Faking humanity
Journalistic calamity
Intellectual inanity
Fox Noise insanity
You're a profanity
Hannity
Quote from: J70 on October 10, 2008, 03:21:04 AM
John Cleese has put his admiration for Sean Hannity into verse... :)
Ode to Sean Hannity
by John Cleese
Aping urbanity
Oozing with vanity
Plump as a manatee
Faking humanity
Journalistic calamity
Intellectual inanity
Fox Noise insanity
You're a profanity
Hannity
PERFECT
Quote from: J70 on October 10, 2008, 03:21:04 AM
John Cleese has put his admiration for Sean Hannity into verse... :)
Ode to Sean Hannity
by John Cleese
Aping urbanity
Oozing with vanity
Plump as a manatee
Faking humanity
Journalistic calamity
Intellectual inanity
Fox Noise insanity
You're a profanity
Hannity
That should ne nominated for the Nobel Prize for Literature. Brilliant.
Quote
Palin abused power as Governor: inquiry
Saturday, 11 October 2008 11:50
An Alaska ethics inquiry has found that Governor Sarah Palin, the US Republican vice presidential candidate, abused her authority by pressuring subordinates to fire a state trooper involved in a feud with her family.
The finding has cast a cloud over John McCain's choice of running mate for the 4 November election.
On the day it was published he reined in an aggressive strategy against Barack Obama that had failed to cut into his Democratic rival's lead.
After a week in which he and Ms Palin fiercely attacked Mr Obama and inflamed supporters by urging them to question his fitness to be president, Mr McCain switched to a milder tone, calling on frustrated loyalists to respect the Illinois senator.
Supporters appeared surprised by his conciliatory approach, booing at a Minneapolis rally when he told a sceptical backer that Mr Obama was a 'decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared (of) as president of the United States.'
The Alaska inquiry centred on whether Ms Palin's dismissal of the state's public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, was linked to her personal feud with a state trooper who was involved in a contentious divorce with the Governor's sister.
The inquiry found that while it was within the Governor's authority to dismiss Mr Monegan, Ms Palin violated the public trust by pressuring those who worked for her in a way that advanced her personal wishes.
The report did not recommend any action be taken against the Governor, but called for changes in statutes for handling government personnel.
The investigation was commissioned in July by Alaska's Legislative Council composed of ten Republican lawmakers and four Democrats.
The McCain-Palin campaign dismissed the report, saying it was a 'partisan-led inquiry run by Obama supporters,' and Ms Palin and her family had been justified to be concerned about the behaviour of the trooper.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1011/uselection.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1011/uselection.html)
I would have thought Tyrone's Own would have been on by now making up hilarious excuses about Palin's abuse of power and telling us to educate ourselves.
Great judgement by McCain to pick her.
Looks like Wednesday night may be do or die for McCain, needs to land some significent blows, or at least get a rise out of Obama.
This is worth a read if you've got some time.
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/10/13/081013taco_talk_editors
This is the problem with democracy and "freedom", you have the freedom, the God given right to be an idiot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvqhdllXgU
As a side note, Im sure there are plenty idiots not voting for Obama because he's black.
Campaigning
http://sendables.jibjab.com/sendables/1191/time_for_some_campaignin#/teaser/1191
Watching the debate now.
McCain using the Republican "scare tactic" of Obama having ties to a "terrorist". Its obvious he knows its over and using anything to discredit Obama instead of stating how he can improve the government.
So, who "won" the debate. Huff post are giving it to Obama but no surprise there.
Just noticed if you use Google Chrome and type 'Obama' it puts the red squiggly misspell line through it, the only other option they give is 'Osama' :o
McCain was certainly on the offensive, but I thought Obama handled it well, particularly the stuff about the negative campaigning. McCain needed the win more than Obama, but I don't think he got it. Draw again for me, in that it isn't going to change much in terms of the race.
McCain looked like he was seething the whole night when Obama was speaking, while Obama frequently broke into an incredulous smirk when McCain made some accusation at him.
I'm wondering when we can expect to see "Joe the Plumber" with his own reality TV show...Maybe himself and "Joe Sixpack" can team up....
McCain was def more aggressive, I guess he had to be...Obama was his usually cool self, he just comes across as very calm and in control..
I watched it on a split screen, so you could clearly see the reactions when the other was speaking...McCain in my opinion looked angrier.
You know, on a separate note...I could have lived with McCain....but Pailin freaks me out...I dislike her more than I dislike Guliani and I think she sunk McCain more than any other mistake he has made. Suspending Campaign, Postponing Debate etc etc....Independents, especially educated women just don't like her....I won't call her stupid, coz you don't get where she is being stupid....but she comes across as incredibly ignorant and sneaky as a fox..
I think she absolutly cannot change peoples opinions of her, which were formed after watching her interviews...The fact she refuses/or isn't allowed to give anymore is resonating with voters...
I could probably have lived with McCain too, had he selected someone like Lieberman, as he allegedly wanted to. Courting the religious right with Palin put a very swift end to any inclinations I had in that direction though!
I concur wholeheartedly, although I don't know about Lieberman... I would prefer Bloomberg than him...Pailin is just wrong, wrong wrong...She can wink and "Joe Sixpack" till she is blue in the face...she isn't impressing anyone but the right wing extremists...
People want tolerence and understanding...not snarking and barking....my way or the highway...
I also think the election of Barack Obama will go a long way to putting the ugly history of this country to rest. We can't deny there is an ugly history..I think he will be a powerful example of how far this country has coming regarding race relations...I really, really hope he wins...btw, I really like Joe Biden too...
I feel Obama and Biden are the logical choice after the debates. It seems like the rest of the country is going this way, my only concern would be that everyone assumes Obama is going to win and the voters fail to show up on this assumption. That would be the only way McCain could slip in. As we say in Chicago "vote early and often" ;).
QuoteMcCain looked like he was seething the whole night when Obama was speaking
I thought in previous debates he showed very little respect to Obama - never looking at him or engaging him directly, referring to him as "that one". Have recorded last nights one and look forward to seeing it. The Ayers thing is pure desperation and anyone with half a brain knows that. Obama was obviously going to be prepared for an attack along those lines.
I agree that selecting Palin was the losing of this election if it is lost. A crazy woman but good comedy.
He should have picked Andy Reid.
So in a shocking twist a member of the Bush administration has been kidnapped by the liberal media and brainwashed into saying he supports Obama. Its disgraceful. Surely Tyrone's Own won't stand for this.
It's hilarious that McCain's own party are now disowning him; what a truly rotten business politics is.
Don't gloat too much yet boys. McCain, talk radio and Fox News are pulling out all the stops at the moment to make people over here afraid of Obama. Its wall-to-wall Ayers, Acorn, Joe the Plumber and socialistic tax policies. It may very well work.
Quote from: J70 on October 20, 2008, 04:23:42 PM
Don't gloat too much yet boys. McCain, talk radio and Fox News are pulling out all the stops at the moment to make people over here afraid of Obama. Its wall-to-wall Ayers, Acorn, Joe the Plumber and socialistic tax policies. It may very well work.
It'll only work on those watch or listen to that propaganda and let's face it they already vote republican.
Not only has Bush possibly bankrupted the States and let the economy tank but he has probably ended the US dominance of Global issues. That is a spectacular achievement and McCain never had a prayer with that legacy around his neck.
Fear not J70, Obama has revealed he is actually Superman, sent to Earth by his father Jor El to do good.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=vws9fTtQgz4 (http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=vws9fTtQgz4)
J70 - not gloating or counting anything. Nothing would surprise me at all. I was just wondering how Tyrone's Own was feeling about Powell contracting a mental disorder.
great speechby mccain at the alfred e smith dinner
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=0N-j0W6MW-U&feature=related
not sure if its already been highlighted on this thread but http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OSAOQuLxSdY
I would consider myself an Obama supporter in the hope that he is a better man than than what we have at the minute but below is an interesting article by John Pilger on Barack Obama.
http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=492
A summary of the article: same sh1t, different shovel.
I have a strange feeling that on the day before voting, the terrorist threat status will go to the highest since 9/11 with news headline warnings of imminent attack followed by republican claims that Obama is not the man to steer the US through such a crisis!
And neglecting to point out that of course Mrs Crazy is the first person a country in crisis would turn to.
She does have the binoculars to keep America safe.
McCain asks the Russians to help fund his campaign- BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7681168.stm)
I bet Hannity and O'Reilly will love this. Maybe he could ask Osama for a few bob?
Turns out it was a computer...eh...error....he left his account logged on and it must have been some one else.
Did anyone watch Fox Noise this morning?
There was a former secretary of state on (his name escapes me) who was appauled at Colin Powell's decision to back Obama. He said he was most disappointed by the timing, claiming underhand tactics by the Democrats. But most disturbingly he used a sporting metaphor three times to describe these tactics - calling it, "dirty pool".
Now anyone aware of American pool will realise that dirty pool is a term used to describe a certain tactic of unsportman like play in pool whereby you don't attempt to hit a ball as it puts your opponent at a disadvantage if you don't. However the term "dirty pool" is the polite name for these tactics, it is more likely referred to in white circles as "n***er pool".
I hope Keith Olbermann picks up on this tonight and destroys him for it.
Nightly News just showed Obama has 74% lead on first time voters compared to McCains 23% +/-3%.
Have you seen this site? It seems to change a little bit every day.
http://www.palinaspresident.us/
Click on just about everything. I found five things today behind the door.
Who is that bound and gagged in the desk? :D
QuoteWho is that bound and gagged in the desk? Cheesy
Must be her brother in law the police chief she tried to have sacked as revenge for divorcing her sister.
QuoteMust be her brother in law the police chief she tried to have sacked as revenge for divorcing her sister
Good enough for him. God told me divorce was wrong.
Quote from: AFS on October 22, 2008, 02:10:00 PM
http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/
Not very scientific but worth a gawk at
Barack Obama 87.6% (309,252 votes)
John McCain 12.4% (43,942 votes)
Quote from: AFS on October 22, 2008, 02:10:00 PM
http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/
Not very scientific but worth a gawk at
Not at all scientific. But it made me chuckle.
Quote from: Oraisteach on October 22, 2008, 12:04:13 AM
Have you seen this site? It seems to change a little bit every day.
http://www.palinaspresident.us/
Click on just about everything. I found five things today behind the door.
Never shot a penguin before!
Christ, I knew she was a creationist, but is she really that clueless about science and its history? To pick on Drosophila research, above all species! :D No doubt zebra fish and house mice will be next! And especially in light of this specific study, and her going on all the time about special needs children. But it will go down well with the anti-science, anti-intellectual evangelical base no doubt.
I wondered how long till this came about.
Christian right intensifies attacks on Obama
... Terrorist strikes on four American cities. Russia rolling into Eastern Europe. Israel hit by a nuclear bomb. Gay marriage in every state. The end of the Boy Scouts.
All are plausible scenarios if Democrat Barack Obama is elected president, according to a new addition to the campaign conversation called "Letter from 2012 in Obama's America," produced by the conservative Christian group Focus on the Family Action.
The imagined look into the future is part of an escalation in rhetoric from Christian right activists who are trying to paint Obama in the worst possible terms as the campaign heads into the final stretch and polls show the Democrat ahead.
Although hard-edge attacks are common late in campaigns, the tenor of the strikes against Obama illustrate just how worried conservative Christian activists are about what should happen to their causes and influence if Democrats seize control of both Congress and the White House.
"It looks like, walks like, talks like and smells like desperation to me," said the Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell of Houston, an Obama supporter who backed President Bush in the past two elections. The Methodist pastor called the 2012 letter "false and ridiculous." He said it showed that some Christian conservative leaders fear that Obama's faith-based appeals to voters are working.
Like other political advocacy groups, Christian right groups often raise worries about an election's consequences to mobilize voters. In the early 1980s, for example, direct mail from the Moral Majority warned that Congress would turn a blind eye to "smut peddlers" dangling pornography to children.
"Everyone uses fear in the last part of a campaign, but evangelicals are especially theologically prone to those sorts of arguments," said Clyde Wilcox, a Georgetown University political scientist. "There's a long tradition of predicting doom and gloom."
But the tone this election year is sharper than usual and the volume has turned up as Nov. 4 nears.
Steve Strang, publisher of Charisma magazine, a Pentecostal publication, titled one of his recent weekly e-mails to readers, "Life As We Know It Will End If Obama is Elected."
Strang said gay rights and abortion rights would be strengthened in an Obama administration, taxes would rise and "people who hate Christianity will be emboldened to attack our freedoms."
Separately, a group called the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission has posted a series of videos on its site and on YouTube called "7 Reasons Barack Obama is not a Christian."
The commission accuses Obama of "subtle diabolical deceit" in saying he is Christian, while he believes that people can be saved through other faiths.
But among the strongest pieces this year is Focus on the Family Action's letter which has been posted on the group's Web site and making the e-mail rounds. Signed by "A Christian from 2012," it claims a series of events could logically happen based on the group's interpretation of Obama's record, Democratic Party positions, recent court rulings and other trends.
Among the claims:
• A 6-3 liberal majority Supreme Court that results in rulings like one making gay marriage the law of the land and another forcing the Boy Scouts to "hire homosexual scoutmasters and allow them to sleep in tents with young boys." (In the imagined scenario, The Boy Scouts choose to disband rather than obey).
• A series of domestic and international disasters based on Obama's "reluctance to send troops overseas." That includes terrorist attacks on U.S. soil that kill hundreds, Russia occupying the Baltic states and Eastern European countries including Poland and the Czech Republic, and al-Qaida overwhelming Iraq.
• Nationalized health care with long lines for surgery and no access to hospitals for people over 80.
The goal was to "articulate the big picture," said Carrie Gordon Earll, senior director of public policy for Focus on the Family Action. "If it is a doomsday picture, then it's a realistic picture," she said.
Obama favors abortion rights and supports civil unions for same-sex couples, but says states should make their own decisions about marriage. He said he would intensify diplomatic pressure on Iran over its nuclear ambitions and add troops in Afghanistan.
On taxes, Obama has proposed an increase on the 5 percent of taxpayers who make more than $250,000 a year and advocates cuts for those who make less. His health care plan calls for the government to subsidize coverage for millions of Americans who otherwise couldn't afford it.
One of the clear targets of this latest conservative Christian push against the Democrat is younger evangelicals who might be considering him. The letter posits that young evangelicals provide the margin that let Obama defeat John McCain. But Margaret Feinberg, a Denver-area evangelical author, predicted failure.
"Young evangelicals are tired — like most people at this point in the election — and rhetoric which is fear-based, strong-arms the listener, and states opinion as fact will only polarize rather than further the informed, balanced discussion that younger voters are hungry for," she said.
In an interview, Strang said there are fewer state ballot measures to motivate conservative voters this election year and that the financial meltdown is distracting some voters from the abortion issue. But he said a last-minute push by conservative Christians in 2004 was key to Bush's re-election and predicted they could play the same role in 2008.
Kim Conger, a political scientist at Iowa State University, said a late push for evangelical voters did help Bush in 2004, "but it is a very different thing than getting people excited about John McCain," even with Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice presidential pick.
Phil Burress, head of the Ohio-based Citizens for Community Values, said the dynamics were quite different in 2004, when conservative Christians spent some energy calling Democrat John Kerry a flip-flopper but were mostly motivated by enthusiasm for George W. Bush.
Now, there is less excitement about McCain than fear of an Obama presidency, Burress said.
"This reminds me of when I was a school kid, when I had to go out in the hall and bury my head in my hands because of the atom bomb," he said.
(http://images.askmen.com/women/votes_400/421f_hot_cartoon_moms.jpg)
(http://www.uihome.uidaho.edu/uihome/Images/feature_sarah_palin220x316.jpg)
Quote from: ziggysego on October 25, 2008, 03:03:16 PM
(http://images.askmen.com/women/votes_400/421f_hot_cartoon_moms.jpg)
(http://www.uihome.uidaho.edu/uihome/Images/feature_sarah_palin220x316.jpg)
I saw that on Bill Maher last night! ;D
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2008, 03:59:44 PM
I saw that on Bill Maher last night! ;D
Frick on a poopy stick! What about this then?
(http://www.iconarchive.com/icons/enos-layuk/king-of-the-hill/Cotton-Hill-128x128.png)
(http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/images/John%20McCain.jpg)
Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?
Quote from: AFS on October 25, 2008, 04:36:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2008, 03:30:27 AM
Christ, I knew she was a creationist, but is she really that clueless about science and its history? To pick on Drosophila research, above all species! :D No doubt zebra fish and house mice will be next! And especially in light of this specific study, and her going on all the time about special needs children. But it will go down well with the anti-science, anti-intellectual evangelical base no doubt.
I've just re-read what I posted and realised that its perhaps a bit difficult for someone not from a scientific background to understand how appalling her statement was. As J70 states Drosophila melanogaster is a model species, research using this species is some of the most fundamental in the whole sphere of biological and medical science. For Palin to dismiss this research as some sort of silly fruit fly stuff is nothing short of scandalous. Its suggests this potential McCain/Palin administration are too ill informed and ignorant to understand such a fundamental aspect of science. This lack of respect to science from the Republican party, although nothing new really, is personally sickening.
I think the specific study was referring to a non-
Drosophila species of fruit fly, albeit one, the olive fruit fly, that is a major, invasive, agricultural pest in the western US. But even to dismiss this research as a waste of money is shocking. However, her point was basically that money spent on fruit fly research is a waste of taxpayer money and this reveals an astounding lack of knowledge on the part of the McCain campaign.
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2008, 05:17:40 PM
Quote from: AFS on October 25, 2008, 04:36:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2008, 03:30:27 AM
Christ, I knew she was a creationist, but is she really that clueless about science and its history? To pick on Drosophila research, above all species! :D No doubt zebra fish and house mice will be next! And especially in light of this specific study, and her going on all the time about special needs children. But it will go down well with the anti-science, anti-intellectual evangelical base no doubt.
I've just re-read what I posted and realised that its perhaps a bit difficult for someone not from a scientific background to understand how appalling her statement was. As J70 states Drosophila melanogaster is a model species, research using this species is some of the most fundamental in the whole sphere of biological and medical science. For Palin to dismiss this research as some sort of silly fruit fly stuff is nothing short of scandalous. Its suggests this potential McCain/Palin administration are too ill informed and ignorant to understand such a fundamental aspect of science. This lack of respect to science from the Republican party, although nothing new really, is personally sickening.
I think the specific study was referring to a non-Drosophila species of fruit fly, albeit one, the olive fruit fly, that is a major, invasive, agricultural pest in the western US. But even to dismiss this research as a waste of money is shocking. However, her point was basically that money spent on fruit fly research is a waste of taxpayer money and this reveals an astounding lack of knowledge on the part of the McCain campaign.
This should be a huge self inflicted gun shot wound for any party - but will it really make one iota of difference in the voting stakes? A majority of the Guns, God and Gays (sorry to steal your line J70) republican voters would be in complete accord with her.
Quote from: ardal on October 25, 2008, 05:15:03 PM
Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?
Have not heard that at all.
His mother was a U.S. citizen hence he is a U.S. citizen.
Quote from: ardal on October 25, 2008, 05:15:03 PM
Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?
This case (the Democrat Berg) was dismissed. There are a few others in the pipeline to get Obama removed from the ballot in certain states. A wingnut by the name of Andy Martin, showcased by Sean Hannity the other week in the "expose" Tyrone's Own was suggesting we all watch, has also sued the state of Hawaii to release the original birth cert. Basically, they're all claiming that Obama's mother couldn't get back to Hawaii, resulting in Obama actually being born in Kenya, thus stripping him of his natural born citizenship, and disqualifying him from serving as president. They all claim that the birth cert released to the website factcheck.org is a forgery and that Obama has in fact gone back to Hawaii to cover things up and not to see his dying grandmother. Its actually got to the point that Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage (I think TO likes him) are screaming conspiracy and fraud!
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 25, 2008, 05:25:45 PM
Quote from: ardal on October 25, 2008, 05:15:03 PM
Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?
Have not heard that at all.
His mother was a U.S. citizen hence he is a U.S. citizen.
If he was born in Kenya, he can't be president.
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2008, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 25, 2008, 05:25:45 PM
Quote from: ardal on October 25, 2008, 05:15:03 PM
Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?
Have not heard that at all.
His mother was a U.S. citizen hence he is a U.S. citizen.
If he was born in Kenya, he can't be president.
Just another futile attempt to discredit the man. John McCain was born in Panama.
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 25, 2008, 05:36:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2008, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 25, 2008, 05:25:45 PM
Quote from: ardal on October 25, 2008, 05:15:03 PM
Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?
Have not heard that at all.
His mother was a U.S. citizen hence he is a U.S. citizen.
If he was born in Kenya, he can't be president.
Just another futile attempt to discredit the man. John McCain was born in Panama.
On a US military base.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiQCJXpbKg (http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiQCJXpbKg)
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2008, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 25, 2008, 05:36:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2008, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on October 25, 2008, 05:25:45 PM
Quote from: ardal on October 25, 2008, 05:15:03 PM
Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?
Have not heard that at all.
His mother was a U.S. citizen hence he is a U.S. citizen.
If he was born in Kenya, he can't be president.
Just another futile attempt to discredit the man. John McCain was born in Panama.
On a US military base.
A Russian/commie/nazi one.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=vlAKnSCRWQM (http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=vlAKnSCRWQM)
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2008, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on October 25, 2008, 03:03:16 PM
(http://images.askmen.com/women/votes_400/421f_hot_cartoon_moms.jpg)
(http://www.uihome.uidaho.edu/uihome/Images/feature_sarah_palin220x316.jpg)
I saw that on Bill Maher last night! ;D
Peggy Hill is smart though, she'd make a great VP!!
Alaska's largest newspaper has just endorsed Obama :o :o
Sadly it looks like Barack Hussein Obama is headed for the White House now. Can't see even the finest hanging chads preventing that.
And that radio at work could be damaged beyond repair come Wednesday next, when the inevitable Obama lovefest commences on RTE Radio 1. Not quite Fox-like in its bias, but pretty impressive for a national broadcaster, paid for by that licence fee they love to remind us of at every ad break.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 30, 2008, 01:09:43 AM
Sadly it looks like Barack Hussein Obama is headed for the White House now. Can't see even the finest hanging chads preventing that.
Let's hope so. I dread the thought of another Republican president, particularly with that stomach-turning Palin second in command. The race will tighten up in the last few days though. Obama is not there yet.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 30, 2008, 01:09:43 AM
Sadly it looks like Barack Hussein Obama is headed for the White House now. Can't see even the finest hanging chads preventing that.
And that radio at work could be damaged beyond repair come Wednesday next, when the inevitable Obama lovefest commences on RTE Radio 1. Not quite Fox-like in its bias, but pretty impressive for a national broadcaster, paid for by that licence fee they love to remind us of at every ad break.
It's not over yet - what's your beef with Obama OMS?
Do you use John McCain's middle name when referring to him?
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 30, 2008, 01:09:43 AM
Sadly it looks like Barack Hussein Obama is headed for the White House now. Can't see even the finest hanging chads preventing that.
And that radio at work could be damaged beyond repair come Wednesday next, when the inevitable Obama lovefest commences on RTE Radio 1. Not quite Fox-like in its bias, but pretty impressive for a national broadcaster, paid for by that licence fee they love to remind us of at every ad break.
Barack Adolf Hussein Marx Castro Chavez Bin Obama.
OMS you are not posting on an American website. We think for ourselves in this country.
Who owns Amazon.com? They have Obama listed as a terrorist!
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/us-election/obama-listed-as-terrorist-on-amazon-14017714.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/us-election/obama-listed-as-terrorist-on-amazon-14017714.html)
Quote from: J70 on October 30, 2008, 01:16:19 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 30, 2008, 01:09:43 AM
Sadly it looks like Barack Hussein Obama is headed for the White House now. Can't see even the finest hanging chads preventing that.
Let's hope so. I dread the thought of another Republican president, particularly with that stomach-turning Palin second in command. The race will tighten up in the last few days though. Obama is not there yet.
No, he certainly isn't.
A number of Americans have pointed out to me that old habits and prejudices are hard to ignore in Uncle Sam's land. When the average white American is on the point of hitting the button or checking the tick box or what ever needs to be done, he or she may just think long and hard about voting for someone who is not of their race and background.
It's at that final moment, when the die is about to be cast, that doubts may kick in.
By now I'd imagine that every person who has decided to go out and vote will also have decided which candidate he or he will vote for.
Every McCain backer will very likely vote as intended but the Obama camp are privately worried that some of their declared supporters may have a change of heart in the privacy of the ballot booth.
I have £20 on McCain at 5/4 from 2 months ago when he was beginning to build a degree of momentum, but McCain through his own mistakes has hurt his campaign since then. Can't see anything other than an Obama victory at this stage.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 30, 2008, 01:09:43 AM
Sadly it looks like Barack Hussein Obama is headed for the White House now. Can't see even the finest hanging chads preventing that.
And that radio at work could be damaged beyond repair come Wednesday next, when the inevitable Obama lovefest commences on RTE Radio 1. Not quite Fox-like in its bias, but pretty impressive for a national broadcaster, paid for by that licence fee they love to remind us of at every ad break.
I cannot believe you'd prefer to see Palin in the White House. Genuinely shocked at that OMS.
Also explain why you used his middle name? Do you think he is a terrorist? Do you think he is a Muslim? Or are you merely trying to give that impression so a few idiots (10% according to polls - how fucked up is the US?) will believe that?
i cant see anything but an obama win at this stage, palin is at the gurrier stuff which is a sure sign the republicans know the game is up..
Quote from: magickingdom on October 30, 2008, 11:57:50 PM
i cant see anything but an obama win at this stage, palin is at the gurrier stuff which is a sure sign the republicans know the game is up..
Don't ever underestimate the capacity of the Democrats to screw things up!
Also, the right wing are pushing hard about this Khalidi tape that the LA Times says they can't release. Expect that and the socialism charges (as well as the Rev Wright stuff which is being advertised in non-campaign ads in some states) to shave another couple of points. I think it will be close. God help us all if Palin becomes VP and probable GOP candidate in '12.
BTW, where's Tyrone's Own these days? I haven't seen any comments from him in quite a while.
(http://ibnn.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/noted20republican20presidents.jpg)
How far to the right is Tyrone's Own?
well its always possible to screw it up j70 but looking at the stats theres not a budge in the polls that favours mccain in the last 6 weeks. its been quite boring imo, hes screwed in the swing states and thats all that counts. would have loved to have seen hillary get in tho and stick it to the republicans, obama is too much of an unknown for me.
ibtw f the la times tapes had anything in them they'd be out long ago
Quote from: magickingdom on October 31, 2008, 12:08:46 AM
ibtw f the la times tapes had anything in them they'd be out long ago
Followed a link from a BBC blog today to one of these discussion boards about these Khalidi tapes. They are alleging that Obama makes two key statements (1) Israel has no God given right to the territory of Palestine and (2) Israel is responsible for massacres in the occupied territories. Only in America could those be considered controversial statements.
QuoteBTW, where's Tyrone's Own these days? I haven't seen any comments from him in quite a while.
No worries me old mucker... I've been in the background taking great craic out of reading some of the posts here :D
I figured I should back off and give some of the younger kids here a chance to voice their learned multi-national
expert notions without me embarrassing them at every turn and it worked a treat... the thread had dropped off
to the 5th page at one point owing to them running out of things to hate ::) at least they put some bit
of thought into their rage filled ideology when they knew I'd be calling them on it but with me disappearing the guard dropped and the real
expertise began to surface :D :D Fcuk it the cats out of the bag now... back to Wikipedia, MSNBC or the Huffington post now girls :D
Quote from: magickingdom on October 31, 2008, 12:08:46 AM
well its always possible to screw it up j70 but looking at the stats theres not a budge in the polls that favours mccain in the last 6 weeks. its been quite boring imo, hes screwed in the swing states and thats all that counts. would have loved to have seen hillary get in tho and stick it to the republicans, obama is too much of an unknown for me.
ibtw f the la times tapes had anything in them they'd be out long ago
According to Fox News there a few minutes ago its down to the margin of error, with Obama at 47% and McCain 44% nationally. Maybe they're just trying to motivate their base and play up the idea that swing voters are going to "play it safe" and go with McCain. I am worried though, although they did a lot of the same in the run-up to the mid-terms in '06 when the Democrats kicked the Republicans' arses.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 31, 2008, 01:23:13 AM
QuoteBTW, where's Tyrone's Own these days? I haven't seen any comments from him in quite a while.
No worries me old mucker... I've been in the background taking great craic out of reading some of the posts here :D
I figured I should back off and give some of the younger kids here a chance to voice their learned multi-national
expert notions without me embarrassing them at every turn and it worked a treat... the thread had dropped off
to the 5th page at one point owing to them running out of things to hate ::) at least they put some bit
of thought into their rage filled ideology when they knew I'd be calling them on it but with me disappearing the guard dropped and the real
expertise began to surface :D :D Fcuk it the cats out of the bag now... back to Wikipedia, MSNBC or the Huffington post now girls :D
Just checking to see if you're still with us! ;)
Life is good ;D
QuoteSadly it looks like Barack Hussein Obama is headed for the White House now. Can't see even the finest hanging chads preventing that.
Yes lets get McCain in and kill another million worthless Iraqi and Afghan civilians then start on Iran. Also lets allow George Bush snr and his cronies blast & bulldoze away the Pascua Lama glacier to get at the gold deposits underneath.
Then when McCain retires thru ill health stick Palin in as president and really show us how to f**k the world up!
Quote from: under the bar on October 31, 2008, 08:15:30 AM
QuoteSadly it looks like Barack Hussein Obama is headed for the White House now. Can't see even the finest hanging chads preventing that.
Yes lets get McCain in and kill another million worthless Iraqi and Afghan civilians then start on Iran. Also lets allow George Bush snr and his cronies blast & bulldoze away the Pascua Lama glacier to get at the gold deposits underneath.
Then when McCain retires thru ill health stick Palin in as president and really show us how to f**k the world up!
Agree with your statements but Barrick Gold Corporation is a Canadain Company, Bush Sr. sits on their International Advisory Board. I don't want your statement to lead readers to believe this is a U.S. Company tearing up a neighbor to the south.
Barrick has destroyed land throuhout the world - North America, South America, Australia and Africa.
What the plan to do in Chile/Argentina is a disgrace but profits again overshadow people ::). The citizens of the world have to wake up and protest acts of gross mistreatment of the land and people from companies like Barrick.
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2008, 02:21:47 AM
Quote from: magickingdom on October 31, 2008, 12:08:46 AM
well its always possible to screw it up j70 but looking at the stats theres not a budge in the polls that favours mccain in the last 6 weeks. its been quite boring imo, hes screwed in the swing states and thats all that counts. would have loved to have seen hillary get in tho and stick it to the republicans, obama is too much of an unknown for me.
ibtw f the la times tapes had anything in them they'd be out long ago
According to Fox News there a few minutes ago its down to the margin of error, with Obama at 47% and McCain 44% nationally. Maybe they're just trying to motivate their base and play up the idea that swing voters are going to "play it safe" and go with McCain. I am worried though, although they did a lot of the same in the run-up to the mid-terms in '06 when the Democrats kicked the Republicans' arses.
national polls are irrelevant (ask al gore) its not a 'national' election its a state by state one. mccain is dead in too many swing states, if he loses n carolina and pennsylvania its over before it leaves the east coast
Quote from: magickingdom on October 31, 2008, 07:55:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2008, 02:21:47 AM
Quote from: magickingdom on October 31, 2008, 12:08:46 AM
well its always possible to screw it up j70 but looking at the stats theres not a budge in the polls that favours mccain in the last 6 weeks. its been quite boring imo, hes screwed in the swing states and thats all that counts. would have loved to have seen hillary get in tho and stick it to the republicans, obama is too much of an unknown for me.
ibtw f the la times tapes had anything in them they'd be out long ago
According to Fox News there a few minutes ago its down to the margin of error, with Obama at 47% and McCain 44% nationally. Maybe they're just trying to motivate their base and play up the idea that swing voters are going to "play it safe" and go with McCain. I am worried though, although they did a lot of the same in the run-up to the mid-terms in '06 when the Democrats kicked the Republicans' arses.
national polls are irrelevant (ask al gore) its not a 'national' election its a state by state one. mccain is dead in too many swing states, if he loses n carolina and pennsylvania its over before it leaves the east coast
I am well aware that national polls are, to some extent, irrelevant. However, if they are tightening up, the individual states may well be too, particularly those that have gone Republican in recent presidential elections, which are the vital ones that McCain has to win. I hope you are right, but I am not discounting anything at this stage.
I drove by an early polling station here in Florida this afternoon, it was raining and the line was around the block . There will be some turnout this year especially down here. Tuesday night should be good fun watching the results come in., if Obama wins Florida it is over for Mc Cain. This will be my third time voting in Florida, hopefully it will be the first time that a Democrat wins.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 31, 2008, 01:23:13 AM
QuoteBTW, where's Tyrone's Own these days? I haven't seen any comments from him in quite a while.
No worries me old mucker... I've been in the background taking great craic out of reading some of the posts here :D
I figured I should back off and give some of the younger kids here a chance to voice their learned multi-national
expert notions without me embarrassing them at every turn and it worked a treat... the thread had dropped off
to the 5th page at one point owing to them running out of things to hate ::) at least they put some bit
of thought into their rage filled ideology when they knew I'd be calling them on it but with me disappearing the guard dropped and the real
expertise began to surface :D :D Fcuk it the cats out of the bag now... back to Wikipedia, MSNBC or the Huffington post now girls :D
Being the smartest man in the room must be a real burden sometimes - how do you cope?
QuoteBeing the smartest man in the room must be real burden sometimes - how do you cope?
Thank you, No not really believe it or not, Get up every morning and face the day just like the rest..... :)
Wouldn't be a Tyrone man voting Republican........ *whistles*
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 31, 2008, 01:23:13 AM
QuoteBTW, where's Tyrone's Own these days? I haven't seen any comments from him in quite a while.
No worries me old mucker... I've been in the background taking great craic out of reading some of the posts here :D
I figured I should back off and give some of the younger kids here a chance to voice their learned multi-national
expert notions without me embarrassing them at every turn and it worked a treat... the thread had dropped off
to the 5th page at one point owing to them running out of things to hate ::) at least they put some bit
of thought into their rage filled ideology when they knew I'd be calling them on it but with me disappearing the guard dropped and the real
expertise began to surface :D :D Fcuk it the cats out of the bag now... back to Wikipedia, MSNBC or the Huffington post now girls :D
Can't say I've ever looked at any of those for political insight. But maybe when you're done condescending to people you could take a look at that well known bastion of socialism 'The Economist', they've endorsed Obama.
http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displayStory.cfm?story_id=12516666&source=features_box_main
QuoteI drove by an early polling station here in Florida this afternoon, it was raining and the line was around the block . There will be some turnout this year especially down here.
Was chatting to the brother who is an interested observer ov there and he reckons the same. Huge early turnout and going to be big overall as well. You'd suspect that would be good for Obama but you would never know.
Winner - Obama
Assassination attempt 1 fails (6 months)
Assassination attempt 2 fails (10 months)
Assassination attempt 3 successful - (13 months)
Quote from: Yes I Would on November 01, 2008, 09:21:33 PM
Winner - Obama
Assassination attempt 1 fails (6 months)
Assassination attempt 2 fails (10 months)
Assassination attempt 3 successful - (13 months)
Attempt one last week.
Quote from: ziggysego on November 01, 2008, 09:23:54 PM
Quote from: Yes I Would on November 01, 2008, 09:21:33 PM
Winner - Obama
Assassination attempt 1 fails (6 months)
Assassination attempt 2 fails (10 months)
Assassination attempt 3 successful - (13 months)
Attempt one last week.
Them pair were looking caught.
QuoteYes lets get McCain in and kill another million worthless Iraqi and Afghan civilians then start on Iran. Also lets allow George Bush snr and his cronies blast & bulldoze away the Pascua Lama glacier to get at the gold deposits underneath.
Then when McCain retires thru ill health stick Palin in as president and really show us how to f**k the world up!
This is exactly the type of ignorant hate filled rantings that make you look like idiots ::) the fact that the all knowing DH felt the
need and was able to correct you just about says it all :P
QuoteBut maybe when you're done condescending to people you could take a look at that well known bastion of socialism 'The Economist', they've endorsed Obama.
Should I be shocked :o why should it be any different to most other rags who's subscriptions are dwindling,
of course they going to print what sells...are you really that naive ::)
Maybe I should start bleating now like the rest of ye sheep in the love fest for Obama, why?
because the Economist said so ::) Like Muppet mentioned earlier to you... think for yourself man :-[
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 30, 2008, 11:22:48 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 30, 2008, 01:09:43 AM
Sadly it looks like Barack Hussein Obama is headed for the White House now. Can't see even the finest hanging chads preventing that.
And that radio at work could be damaged beyond repair come Wednesday next, when the inevitable Obama lovefest commences on RTE Radio 1. Not quite Fox-like in its bias, but pretty impressive for a national broadcaster, paid for by that licence fee they love to remind us of at every ad break.
I cannot believe you'd prefer to see Palin in the White House. Genuinely shocked at that OMS.
Also explain why you used his middle name? Do you think he is a terrorist? Do you think he is a Muslim? Or are you merely trying to give that impression so a few idiots (10% according to polls - how fucked up is the US?) will believe that?
No real reason for using his middle name - it's just an unfortunate one to have. Mind you being a Bush probably wouldn't do you any favours after GWB's tenure.
Haven't been impressed by Obama during his campaign, can't see the messianic figure that some seem to believe. The sheer favouritism shown by the media here doesn't endear me to him either. Plus his tax policies in relation to MNC's wouldn't appear to help us here, at a time when we need all we can get. Maybe he will be prove to a good President, but only time will tell. He's going to get his chance anyway, barring a major surprise.
As for Palin - oh dear. A mistake by the McCain camp to put it mildly. Not many might want a McCain win now, but if we could do 2000 all over again...
you'd probably want Gore to win anyway.
To be fair Hussein is a far more common name than Bush.
I reckon the picking of Palin has done for McCain BUT it's not over yet. In the privacy of the booth lots will not vote for Obama. Others will not go to the polls because they won't want to have to make the decsion. The right and the evengelicals will vote in force as they did four years ago, forelornly as it turned out for the Christians. This will be tighter than most think.
That's what I'm fearful of Mental. Was watching the news a few days back and they were interviewing ordinary Americans. One woman said she wouldn't vote for Obama, as no one in her family would vote for a baby killer. God I hope she isn't an example of an ordinary American...
Quote from: Mentalman on November 02, 2008, 12:09:16 AM
To be fair Hussein is a far more common name than Bush.
I reckon the picking of Palin has done for McCain BUT it's not over yet. In the privacy of the booth lots will not vote for Obama. Others will not go to the polls because they won't want to have to make the decsion. The right and the evengelicals will vote in force as they did four years ago, forelornly as it turned out for the Christians. This will be tighter than most think.
In the States though? Shouldn't make any difference anyway.
Regarding the race tightening, it should do, but the gap to make up is a ot, and perhaps may be insurmountable for McCain. Could the staggered closing of polls make any difference, in that if the early crucial states declaring go with Obama, that it could have an effect in the states further west? And the polls do get it wrong sometimes, even in Britain the exit poll (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QY8MxR1yRnE (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QY8MxR1yRnE)) on the night of the 1992 election suggested a hung parliament, when in reality the Tories actually won it.
Apparently variations on a "Vote McCain, not Hussein" chant are being heard at McCain and Palin rallies. The following exchange with a couple at a Palin rally in Florida today is being widely reported...
Quote
After the rally in Florida ended, two of the people leading the chant explained why they did so.
"Because it rhymes," said Shirley Mitten, 64, a volunteer at a pregnancy center and a resident of Brooksville, Fla.
She said she does not know if Mr. Obama is a Muslim. "He says he's not, but we have no way of knowing," Ms. Mitten said.
Her husband, John A. Mitten, 64, took credit for starting the chant. "I was trying to get it going!" he said. "I just do not want Obama to be elected."
Mr. Mitten said he could not trust Mr. Obama because of his past association with William Ayers, the 1960's radical, and because of his relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. He also pointed out that Mr. Obama's father was a Muslim.
The middle name Hussein, he said, added to the suspicion. "I guess Obama was named after Saddam Hussein," he said.
Scary shit.
How'd you do? Fail?
Quote from: hardstation on November 02, 2008, 03:09:23 AM
Here lads, when is this expected to be wrapped up? I was doing my 11+ when this started.
Just last year.
Tuesday 4th of November, winner should be announced 3 or 4 am Ireland.
I'll probably still be in bed wide awake at time. Might as well watch. Which channel covers it best? RTE, BBC, ITV or Sky News?
QuotePlus his tax policies in relation to MNC's wouldn't appear to help us here
An easy mistake to make. Think it through though. His withdrawal of tax breaks from "companies who ship jobs overseas" will not have a major effect on us. It will hit Mexico, Costa Rica etc but US companies will always set up in Europe. They will always need a gateway into Europe and hey presto Ireland with its 12.5% CT rate wins if tax is the deciding factor. So when you put a little bit of thought into it then its only low cost manufacturing economies who have anythnig to fear from Obama's tax policies.
QuoteYou seem to have convinced yourself that anyone who supports Obama is little more than a sheep , and that any publications or websites that do likewise are unreliable rags. This may be the case in many instances but your extreme view that anyone who disagrees with your position is automatically an idiot is absurd and, not to mention, insulting. There are more effective ways of disagreeing with people.
The reason I have labeled the lot of ye sheep is because I've asked what on earth he has done to earn the right
to the love fest and besides the glassy eyed stares all I hear is Bush, Change, Hope etc etc.................. If I was able
to raise millions of dollars (a lot of it illegally), fund ACORN to get out the vote *ahem* fraud, at every chance mention
Bush this Bush that, Change..... Hope......and on and on...... would ye vote for me too ::)
A fantastic campaign strategy no doubt and i could see how the brain washing took place but it just wasn't for me.
It really is that simple for me, simply no experience for the job, Biden's words not mine ;) too many gaps in his past that have not surfaced,
added to what has been unearthed :o the rampant media swooning and bias towards this election :-[
Race plays no part in this for me but let me ask, are the huge percentage of Black people that are voting for him simply because he's black
racist in your opinion or is that term reserved for the white man for being seen to go against him ???
AFS, it's not lost on me that you neglected to mention the barrage of attention, assumptions, cynicism and insults that have been directed at me from
the school playground bully boys on here.
QuoteAny predictions for this week, just for the craic like?
Really don't think you boy's have much to be concerned about, besides Obama's advisors flawless campaign strategy I do think
it was McCains to lose and he single handedly did just that...well with a little help from Palin of course :-\
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 05:01:15 PM
The reason I have labeled the lot of ye sheep is because I've asked what on earth he has done to earn the right
to the love fest and besides the glassy eyed stares all I hear is Bush, Change, Hope etc etc.................. If I was able
to raise millions of dollars (a lot of it illegally), fund ACORN to get out the vote *ahem* fraud, at every chance mention
Bush this Bush that, Change..... Hope......and on and on...... would ye vote for me too ::)
A fantastic campaign strategy no doubt and i could see how the brain washing took place but it just wasn't for me.
Brain-washing has nothing to do with it for me. I am simply voting for the lesser of two evils.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 05:01:15 PM
It really is that simple for me, simply no experience for the job, Biden's words not mine ;) too many gaps in his past that have not surfaced,
added to what has been unearthed :o the rampant media swooning and bias towards this election :-[
What gaps are these? We've had Ayers, Khalidi, Wright, the birth cert, the illegal aunt, ACORN, Rezko and on and on. All of this stuff has been out there for months, except for the aunt, which came out in the last few days. McCain has wisely left the aunt to his proxies; the Khalidi thing (which was ridiculous to begin with) died a death when the half-million that McCain directed to his research group came out; the birth cert crowd, for better or worse, look like a bunch of tin foil hat conspiracy theorists and haven't been helped by Hannity's buddy Martin's past; people just don't seem to think Ayers is particularly relevant; ACORN's fraud has been tempered by counter-accusations of voter suppression and memories of the likes of Katherine Harris; Rezko probably has parallels with Keating, which is maybe why McCain has left it alone; Wright was all over the news non-stop for months back in the spring and summer.
The bottom line, fair or not, is that people are tired of the Republicans, and they want change, and all the negative campaigning and guilt-by-association and irrelevancies don't seem to be doing much to change that. There has hardly been a word about anything negative in McCain's past in the entire campaign, yet he is the one who looks like he is going to lose. Its nice to see that Rovian tactics and swift-boating have their limits.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 05:01:15 PM
Race plays no part in this for me but let me ask, are the huge percentage of Black people that are voting for him simply because he's black
racist in your opinion or is that term reserved for the white man for being seen to go against him ???
The vast majority of black people vote for the Democrats anyway. If blacks voted based on race, Alan Keyes' campaigns wouldn't have been the laughable failures they were, would they?
In addition, context means a lot. There is a huge difference between a prejudiced white person voting against Obama just because he is black, and black people being more enthused than normal about a candidate because his election would mark a huge step forward in the progress of a group that was the subject of institutional and cultural racism for such a large part of the history of the country. Its only 40 years since George Wallace ran and the southern Democrats deserted the party and joined the Republicans over civil rights. That said, any black person who would support Obama simply because McCain is white and he doesn't like white people would certainly be a racist - what evidence do you have that that is the case in this election?
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 05:01:15 PM
QuoteAny predictions for this week, just for the craic like?
Really don't think you boy's have much to be concerned about, besides Obama's advisors flawless campaign strategy I do think
it was McCains to lose and he single handedly did just that...well with a little help from Palin of course :-\
I really hope you're right!
Quotebut surely McCain and Palin have had their own points that they've droned on about daily for the last few months too.
Oh Absolutely but my point was that the rhetoric is
all Obama has been running on and IMO with very little of anything to back it up...
QuoteThe reverse racism in the among the black electorate was well depicted in a clip from the Howard Stern show that was posted on the thread a few pages back.
Yes I got the email, how embarrassing was that? but yet on this board it's all about how scary America is because of the right wing conservative standpoint
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 09:19:48 PM
Quotebut surely McCain and Palin have had their own points that they've droned on about daily for the last few months too.
Oh Absolutely but my point was that the rhetoric is all Obama has been running on and IMO with very little of anything to back it up...
thats my worry with obama, even after 2 years hes a bit of an unknown. thats why after 2 years there are still 14% undecided. as for the constant picking on palin in the liberal press saying she a dumb ass and stupid, if it were a democrat who was getting treated like that we'd have lectures about the dirty republican tricks campaign. palin aint the worst vp nomination
Quotethats my worry with obama, even after 2 years hes a bit of an unknown. thats why after 2 years there are still 14% undecided. as for the constant picking on palin in the liberal press saying she a dumb ass and stupid, if it were a democrat who was getting treated like that we'd have lectures about the dirty republican tricks campaign. palin aint the worst vp nomination
Absolutely!
Quote from: magickingdom on November 02, 2008, 09:35:48 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 09:19:48 PM
Quotebut surely McCain and Palin have had their own points that they've droned on about daily for the last few months too.
Oh Absolutely but my point was that the rhetoric is all Obama has been running on and IMO with very little of anything to back it up...
thats my worry with obama, even after 2 years hes a bit of an unknown. thats why after 2 years there are still 14% undecided. as for the constant picking on palin in the liberal press saying she a dumb ass and stupid, if it were a democrat who was getting treated like that we'd have lectures about the dirty republican tricks campaign. palin aint the worst vp nomination
Palin basically dared the press to go after her in her convention speech. That she ended up looking like a moron was not their fault - she's the one who babbled incoherently about issues from Alaska, Russia and foreign policy to the domestic bailout, couldn't name a single supreme court case she disagreed with apart from Roe v Wade, and generally looked like a student who hadn't done a tap of work all year except for a night's cramming before an exam. I don't think she is dumb at all, but she comes across as incredibly arrogant and smug, and I find the "small town America is real America" bullshit nauseating (and this is from someone who grew up in rural Donegal!). Nobody is putting these words in her mouth. What exactly do you object to in her treatment?
As for Obama, yes, it remains to be seen how he will cope with the pressures of the job, with all of its responsibilities and decision-making, but the same is true for McCain. His policies have been well formulated for anyone who has bothered their ass to pay attention.
QuoteBrain-washing has nothing to do with it for me. I am simply voting for the lesser of two evils.
How unfortunate is it that we both find ourselves in the exact same predicament, Heaven forbid the country could ever offer up a
candidate that some of us would actually want to vote for.
QuoteWhat gaps are these?
You mentioned his birth cert, why
won't he produce his Birth cert though, why
won't he release his health records, why is there a good chunk of his
college yrs missing, it's like he didn't exist almost! how is that possible and more to
the point....why :-\
QuoteWright was all over the news non-stop for months back in the spring and summer.
In deed he was however Obama aided by the media was allowed to sidestep the whole issue by implying
that he was simply unaware of Wrights Anti American views.... for 17 years :o now tell me you can see my
reasoning for thinking that it simply doesn't cut it :-\
The latest of course being that he was
unaware of his Aunt's immigration status.. is he aware he's breathing
I wonder.
QuoteThere has hardly been a word about anything negative in McCain's past in the entire campaign,
Bar that he voted with Bush 90% of the time ;)
Must research to see how many times Obama has voted along with Pelosi and Reid in the last two yrs and I don't think I need to remind
you that their approval rating is much worse than Bush ever was :o
Quotethe progress of a group that was the subject of institutional and cultural racism for such a large part of the history of the country.
And let it be known of the direct involvement the Democratic party played in the early days of slavery and who it took to come along and
lay the ground work to drive it out of our society, a history lesson wouldn't go a miss with most of them
QuoteHis policies have been well formulated for anyone who has bothered their ass to pay attention.
Nail on the head.
I see there are more fairytales being presented by Tyrones Own. If you twist words and speak in half truths you can argue almost anythnig. Fairness and judgement comes in to what a leader should be though. And ability counts too. Being a good ole boy or a hockey mom may get votes but it means diddly squat in terms of being able to run one of the most powerful countries in the world.
QuoteI see there are more fairytales being presented by Tyrones Own. If you twist words and speak in half truths you can argue almost anythnig. Fairness and judgement :D comes in to what a leader should be though. And ability counts too. Being a good ole boy or a hockey mom may get votes but it means diddly squat in terms of being able to run one of the most powerful countries in the world.
Fairness and
Judgement......baa :D baa :D
Ok, I'll give you a chance to Redeem yourself from your last little eh... episode :'( ..please do explain ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 11:23:46 PM
QuoteWhat gaps are these?
You mentioned his birth cert, why won't he produce his Birth cert though, why won't he release his health records, why is there a good chunk of his
college yrs missing, it's like he didn't exist almost! how is that possible and more to
the point....why :-\
Maybe I have a little more faith in the process than you, but I find it hard to believe that he got a job in the US senate and became an official presidential candidate without producing his birth cert somewhere.
As to his college years, what, and how many years are apparently missing?
I have no idea about the health records. He looks pretty healthy to me. What do you think he is hiding? Maybe he's a muslim after all!
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 11:23:46 PM
QuoteWright was all over the news non-stop for months back in the spring and summer.
In deed he was however Obama aided by the media was allowed to sidestep the whole issue by implying
that he was simply unaware of Wrights Anti American views.... for 17 years :o now tell me you can see my
reasoning for thinking that it simply doesn't cut it :-\
He answered O'Reilly, of all people, on Wright. If you don't like his answer, that is a different issue. I've heard plenty of shite in churches myself over the years. If Obama is held responsible for some of what he sat through in churches, maybe some of the christian right politicians should have to stand over what their pastors preach on controversial issues (I think Wright is perfectly entitled to his anger at America by the way).
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 11:23:46 PM
The latest of course being that he was unaware of his Aunt's immigration status.. is he aware he's breathing
I wonder.
I don't know about Obama, but I have relatives in the states and I honestly have no idea about whether they are legal or not. Its not an issue that comes up that much.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 11:23:46 PM
QuoteThere has hardly been a word about anything negative in McCain's past in the entire campaign,
Bar that he voted with Bush 90% of the time ;)
Must research to see how many times Obama has voted along with Pelosi and Reid in the last two yrs and I don't think I need to remind
you that their approval rating is much worse than Bush ever was :o
Policy is different. What I mean is that if Rove was running against McCain, you'd be seeing all kinds of ads about Keating and McCain using his connections to advance in the navy and get him out of the numerous scrapes he got into in his early years. You'd be hearing about him getting married a couple of weeks after his divorce, having played around on his disabled wife for years. Obama has not touched any of this stuff, except for a one-day retalitory ad a few weeks back after the McCain campaign changed course again and said they were going to get nasty.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 11:23:46 PM
Quotethe progress of a group that was the subject of institutional and cultural racism for such a large part of the history of the country.
And let it be known of the direct involvement the Democratic party played in the early days of slavery and who it took to come along and
lay the ground work to drive it out of our society, a history lesson wouldn't go a miss with most of them
Of course. I, and many, many Democrats, consider Lincoln the greatest ever president. That does not take away from the fact that LBJ's prediction that he was going to lose the south for the Democrats by signing the civil rights acts turned out to be true. Boys like Strom Thurmond, who split from Truman in '48 and ran as a segregationist, and later the likes of Jesse Helms, found a comfortable home in the Republican party after LBJ's "treachery".
I would add one more point, relevant to the anti-American charges against Wright and the media's supposed bias against Palin: why hasn't Palin's husband's membership of the secessionist Alaska Independence party, or the governor herself's praising of their work and addressing of their convention, received more coverage?
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 02, 2008, 11:50:05 PM
QuoteI see there are more fairytales being presented by Tyrones Own. If you twist words and speak in half truths you can argue almost anythnig. Fairness and judgement :D comes in to what a leader should be though. And ability counts too. Being a good ole boy or a hockey mom may get votes but it means diddly squat in terms of being able to run one of the most powerful countries in the world.
Fairness and Judgement......baa :D baa :D
Ok, I'll give you a chance to Redeem yourself from your last little eh... episode :'( ..please do explain ::)
Its pretty clear to most people.
I'll give you one example of a "fairytale" you presented. You said Obama said he was "unaware" of Rev Wrights "anti American views". That is simply untrue and I quote Obama's speech of March 18th this year to prove that you are twisting things for your own ends:
"I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy?
Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church?
Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views?
Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed."
So nothing about being "unaware" there buddy.
Imo McCain has done extraordinarily well to be in with a fighting chance (albeit a small one according to the polls) given the recent economic turmoil in the US. It is the economy and the resulting anti-Republican backlash that will beat him and not imo Sarah Palin's performance as running mate, despite what the "pundits" say.
This election is eerily similiar to the 1976 election when Carter "snuck" in on an anti Watergate tide, and narrowly enough at that. Obama if elected will (given all he has promised) be a letdown and imo a "one termer". This election as will all subsequent elections hinge on the rising hispanic vote.
Obama is going to find it hard to live up to all he promised due to the oncoming recession. I think he'll do a good enough job, but it's bad timing for him and won't get as much done as he wants. It will inevidentially gives those who want to bash him an opportunity. He will be a one-termer unfortuntely.
Read something over the weekend, think they called it 'The Bradley Effect'
Think it was in 1982 & there was voting for some position & all the polls had the black candidate in front but he ended up losing.
They reckoned it was because when polled, many people said they were voting for the black candidate because they didnt want to be seen as racist, but when they entered the polling booth, their vote was purely based on racism - hence the white candidate winning
Sounded quite plausible
Edited after ziggy shows his superior knowledge
The Bradley Effect.
Anyway I they feel that it won't affect Obama too much this time. He has a strong enough lead, plus he will get a strong black vote this time which should counteract 'The Bradley Effect'. I think, and I could be wrong, The Bradley Effect is about a 5-6 point swing and Obama is ahead in the polls by more. I'm sure I will probably be proved wrong with regards the points.
Part of the Bradley effect was also postal voting. The polls, both prior to and during, the election only counted those that showed up in person to vote. However the republicans had requested a postal vote for every registered member in California. As these were never polled it left a huge gap in the statistics. Personally I still think skin colour & "religion" will be issues. As seen in the last election the religious right are far more motivated to come out and vote as opposed to other groups. Combine that on the last occasion with state amendments on the bill about gay marriage in key states and the motivation was even higher.
Poll added
QuoteMaybe I have a little more faith in the process than you
Obviously
Quotebut I find it hard to believe that he got a job in the US senate and became an official presidential candidate without producing his birth cert somewhere.
Maybe nobody thought to ask for it, but what it is funny is that now that it is being sought he won't produce it,
surely it's his duty to answer to the American public regardless of how silly it may sound.
Quotehow many years are apparently missing?
'81 tru '83 for some reason or another seems to be a little difficult for his campaign to talk about.
He himself even struggled with it in his book.
QuoteI have no idea about the health records. He looks pretty healthy to me.
He's a smoker... leading cause of lung cancer deaths in the US.
QuoteHe answered O'Reilly, of all people, on Wright. If you don't like his answer, that is a different issue. I've heard plenty of shite in churches myself over the years. If Obama is held responsible for some of what he sat through in churches, maybe some of the christian right politicians should have to stand over what their pastors preach on controversial issues (I think Wright is perfectly entitled to his anger at America by the way).
Maybe you have, why didn't you walk out if was so hard on you, but again yours and the "political right politicians' judgement isn't being called in to question here because you're not running for president
QuoteI don't know about Obama, but I have relatives in the states and I honestly have no idea about whether they are legal or not. Its not an issue that comes up that much.
:D But yet Palin was fair game because she fluffed on the prononciation of some foreign leaders name
QuotePolicy is different.
Oh Ok.... :D whatever suits the moment eh J
and as for the rest, I don't need any history lessons from you... Thanks.
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 01:00:58 PM
The Bradley Effect.
Anyway I they feel that it won't affect Obama too much this time. He has a strong enough lead, plus he will get a strong black vote this time which should counteract 'The Bradley Effect'. I think, and I could be wrong, The Bradley Effect is about a 5-6 point swing and Obama is ahead in the polls by more. I'm sure I will probably be proved wrong with regards the points.
The poll on the front page of The Times today had Obama at 51.9% and McCain at 47.2%.
It's going to be a lot closer than some are making out, I think...
Is percentage the same as points, or have I made a fool of myself?
you are not making a fool of yourself
(in this instance) ;)
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 06:34:32 PM
Is percentage the same as points, or have I made a fool of myself?
Hmm... now that you mention it, not sure what they describe as "points" in the US elections but AFAIK "points" in the UK context refer to the % ('percentage points').
Regardless of that, the article in The Times says that there has been an average of a 2.3% error in the polls for the primaries which, if translated to the current poll would put McCain at 49.5% and Obama at 49.6% and, if people have been backward about coming forward in their support of McCain, it could definately swing it.
I still think Obama will win. McCain is creeping up on him, though, and may well do a Lewis! ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 03, 2008, 06:01:25 PM
QuoteI don't know about Obama, but I have relatives in the states and I honestly have no idea about whether they are legal or not. Its not an issue that comes up that much.
:D But yet Palin was fair game because she fluffed on the prononciation of some foreign leaders name
QuotePolicy is different.
Oh Ok.... :D whatever suits the moment eh J
and as for the rest, I don't need any history lessons from you... Thanks.
Spare me the condescension.
Who mentioned Palin mispronouncing someone's name? And if you can't see the difference between attacking someone on policy and taking thinly disguised digs at their character, you're an idiot.
Nerves are on tender-hooks at the moment. I'm not American and have no intentions of moving there, but I feel another 4 years of a Republican in the White House is going to f**k the world up even more. I remember thinking when Bush got in for a second term that the world was screwed..... I was right!
Fact Check: The myths that wouldn't go away
CNN Reuters – Republican presidential nominee Senator John McCain (R-AZ) (L) and Democratic presidential nominee Senator ... WASHINGTON – Facts have taken a beating in Campaign '08.
Each in his own way, John McCain and Barack Obama have produced enduring myths, amplified by their running mates and supporters. When a non-licensed plumber who owes back taxes and would get a tax cut under Obama is held out by McCain as a stand-in for average working Americans who should vote Republican, you know truth-telling is taking a back seat to myth-making.
McCain has clung tenaciously to many of his distortions throughout the campaign, yielding on a few.
Obama has taken a different tack when he is called on his misstatements. Although perhaps too late to really set the record straight, he's edged closer to the facts.
You might need a microscope to tell the difference, but slight variations in a pitch or accusation can make all the difference between bogus and real.
Obama saddled McCain with a bum rap when he accused the Republican of wanting a 100-year war in Iraq back in the spring. Finally he relented and said McCain sees U.S. troops being in Iraq for 100 years. That's closer to right — as a peacekeeping force like the one in South Korea. But McCain might be long associated with war without end.
Obama accused McCain of wanting to privatize Social Security, which he doesn't. Now he accuses McCain of wanting to privatize "part" of Social Security, which he does, as one option that younger workers could choose.
For his part, McCain has blithely carried on with a variety of discredited claims, abetted by a running mate whose exuberance is not at all dimmed by contrary evidence.
Sarah Palin repeated her boast that she declared "thanks but no thanks for that bridge to nowhere" long after it became clear she had said no such thing — neither in words nor in essence.
McCain's down-to-the-wire accusation that Obama "will raise your taxes" contradicts Obama's tax-cut proposals for all but wealthy Americans. His dark warnings that Obama will fine small businesses that do not provide health insurance goes against a plan by the Democrat that exempts small businesses from paying for coverage. In fact, Obama would give them money to help them offer insurance.
Beyond the realm of exaggeration and misrepresentation, omission plays a large part, too, in denying voters important information on what the next president will do.
Neither candidate has owned up to the budget crunch that is certain to crimp their promises, send the country far deeper into debt, or both. Obama's assertion that his cost savings more than pay for his programs, and McCain's statement that he'll freeze most government spending and balance the budget in four years, are not believed outside their campaigns and circles of allies.
Some of the myths:
OIL SLICKNESS:
"We have to stop sending $700 billion a year to countries that don't like us very much," McCain says, again and again.
That's a seriously inflated figure cited by McCain for the value of U.S. oil imports from countries hostile to America. In fact, the government says the U.S. spent less than half that sum on crude oil and refined petroleum projects from foreign sources last year, and most were from friendly countries such as Canada, Mexico and Britain.
Obama upped the stakes when he used the figure, boiling the vast web of oil and debt transactions down to two countries: "Nothing is more important than us no longer borrowing $700 billion or more from China and sending it to Saudi Arabia," he said. "It's mortgaging our children's future."
HEALTH CARE HORRORS
It only takes McCain and Palin a few words to bend Obama's health care plan out of recognition.
McCain tells supporters he "won't fine small businesses and families with children, as Senator Obama proposes, to force them into a new, huge, government-run health care program, while I keep the cost of the fine a secret until I hit you with it."
Palin talks about Obama's "universal government-run program" and adds: "I don't think it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the Feds."
Obama's plan doesn't fine small businesses. It doesn't force families with children, or anyone, into government-run health care. And the Feds wouldn't be taking over the system.
Between them, McCain and Palin got one part of it half right: Obama has not said how much he would fine larger companies if they do not meet his requirement to offer health insurance or pay into a kitty.
McCain's health plan is distorted, in turn, by Obama.
"Your health care benefits will get taxed for the first time in history," Obama warns voters in attacking it. He often leads voters to think that's the full story. Hardly.
McCain, in exchange for proposing to tax the value of health benefits provided by employers, would offer a tax credit to help people buy insurance. That tax benefit — $5,000 for a family — gives people much more than the new taxation takes away.
Over time, the tax credit could lose value as premiums rise faster.
But that's not an argument the Democratic ticket has chosen to make, in speeches, debates and relentless advertising. Running mate Joe Biden mischaracterized the new taxation as the largest middle-class tax increase in history, ignoring the credits in a rhetorical exercise that would flunk Accounting 101.
___
THAT DARNED BRIDGE
When Palin ran for governor, she indicated her support for a proposal to build a nearly $400 million bridge from Ketchikan, Alaska, to an island with 50 residents and an airport. She was, at times, wishy-washy about it.
But that doesn't make for a compelling line against government waste on the stump.
So her stance became: "I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere." And a campaign ad declared she "stopped the Bridge to Nowhere."
Actually, during her governor's campaign, she vowed to defend Southeast Alaska "when proposals are on the table like the bridge, and not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that's so negative." At the time, the chief "spinmeister" against the project was McCain.
As governor, she abandoned the bridge after Washington pulled the money from it, letting the federal dollars be used for other projects in the state.
In September, her transportation department completed a $25 million gravel road to nowhere. Officials went ahead with the road, which would have led to the bridge, even though it has no purpose other than for foot races, hunting vehicles and possible future development.
___
GUILT BY ASSOCIATION
William Ayers, a University of Illinois education professor and former member of the radical Weather Underground, was front and center in Republican claims that Obama was "palling around with terrorists," as Palin put it. Ayers had a meet-the-candidate event in his home for Obama early in the Democrat's political career. The two served on the board of the Woods Fund. And they live in the same neighborhood.
McCain and Palin stretched the extent of that relationship to link Obama with shadowy figures.
Beyond that, they falsely implied that Ayers used the occasion of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to wish even greater harm.
"We don't care about an old washed-up terrorist and his wife, who still, at least on Sept. 11, 2001, said he still wanted to bomb more," McCain told a rally.
This distortion originated in Hillary Rodham Clinton's playbook during the primaries, when she criticized Obama for the same relationship.
Ayers, Clinton said, made comments "which were deeply hurtful to people in New York and, I would hope, to every American, because they were published on 9/11, and he said that he was just sorry they hadn't done more."
By coincidence, The New York Times published a story on the day of the attacks about Ayers and what he called his fictionalized memoirs. The story was based on an interview he had done earlier, in Chicago, in which he declared, "I don't regret setting bombs," and "I feel we didn't do enough," even while seeming to dissociate himself coyly from the group's most destructive acts.
Late in the campaign, McCain and Palin criticized Obama for attending a 2003 party for Rashid Khalidi, a Palestinian-American professor and critic of Israel. But McCain is also linked Khalidi. The professor was a founder of the Center for Palestine Research and Studies, which received $448,000 from an organization McCain chairs.
___
FUZZY NUMBERS
_$4 billion: "John, you want to give oil companies another $4 billion" in tax breaks, Obama told McCain in a debate.
In fact, McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn't single out any one industry for that benefit.
_$2,500: That's how much Obama says his health care plan will bring down costs for a family of four.
Obama's plan does not lower premiums by $2,500, or any set amount. Obama hopes that by spending $50 billion over five years on electronic medical records and by improving access to proven disease management programs, among other steps, consumers will end up saving money. He uses an optimistic analysis to suggest cost reductions in national health care spending could amount to the equivalent of $2,500 for a family of four over time. Even if savings that large are achieved — economists are highly skeptical — not every dollar is bound to be passed on to consumers.
_94: That's how many times McCain and Palin say that Obama has voted for tax increases or not to support a tax cut.
This inflated count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.
_$882 billion: "Senator McCain would pay for part of his plan by making drastic cuts in Medicare — $882 billion worth," Obama said. Obama ads claim McCain would cut benefits by 22 percent.
McCain's plan proposes neither. He wants to save money the same way Obama wants to — by making programs such as Medicare more efficient.
Obama's claim misrepresents what a McCain adviser said in a Wall Street Journal story and adds distorted analysis from a partisan think tank to come up with something that goes against what McCain says he would do — protect promised benefits from being cut.
I also believe the "Bradley Effect" is overestimated.
Voters who wouldn't vote for a black man are invariably Republican voters anyway.
The States which would be most hostile to black candidate i.e. the Confederate leaning ones who also were most against Civil Rights are mostly definites in the McCain column.
For a bit of background on the Race issue, have a look at the "Past elections" tab here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/americas/04/vote_usa/map/html/default.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/americas/04/vote_usa/map/html/default.stm)
Slide between 1960 and 1964 and notice the South East bible bashing States switched sides.
With one stroke of a pen, Lyndon Johnson flipped these states over to the Republican side with his Civil Rights bill.
QuoteWho mentioned Palin mispronouncing someone's name?
The auld nerves getting the better of ye J or wha, not like you to have to resort to name calling? :P
As to the above quote, I was merely pointing out the fact that Palin was never afforded the right to
hide behind the " I was unaware" trick.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 03, 2008, 08:31:26 PM
QuoteWho mentioned Palin mispronouncing someone's name?
The auld nerves getting the better of ye J or wha, not like you to have to resort to name calling? :P
As to the above quote, I was merely pointing out the fact that Palin was never afforded the right to
hide behind the " I was unaware" trick.
Yeah, having a bad day at work and also getting nervous about the election. Apologies for any offense.
As to the point, let's assume that Obama did know his aunt was illegal. Was he supposed to turn her in?
The lad I share a flat with is illegal - am I supposed to do likewise?
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 03, 2008, 08:20:38 PM
I also believe the "Bradley Effect" is overestimated.
Voters who wouldn't vote for a black man are invariably Republican voters anyway.
The States which would be most hostile to black candidate i.e. the Confederate leaning ones who also were most against Civil Rights are mostly definites in the McCain column.
For a bit of background on the Race issue, have a look at the "Past elections" tab here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/americas/04/vote_usa/map/html/default.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/americas/04/vote_usa/map/html/default.stm)
Slide between 1960 and 1964 and notice the South East bible bashing States switched sides.
With one stroke of a pen, Lyndon Johnson flipped these states over to the Republican side with his Civil Rights bill.
Race will not make a difference in this election this year. Almost every major trade union is supporting Obama and every union is about 90% white.
There are union guys I have worked alongside that would make a KKK man blush with their rhetoric. Now the same guys who know 30+ words for a Black Man are the same guys who say they have to vote for one to keep their jobs going.
This election is really between a Republican nominee whose party has a president sitting during one of the worst economies in almost a century and the Democratic nominee who is not sitting there now. I personally believe it does not matter who the parties put up for election, a democrat was going to win because of the economy, people want a change for the better or worse.
A majority of the people will put up with war and soaring energy costs but they will not put up with being out of a job, and that will put Obama in the White House.
Simple as that.
Obama's granny dead
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4A26GV20081103
Quote from: full back on November 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
Read something over the weekend, think they called it 'The Bradley Effect'
Think it was in 1982 & there was voting for some position & all the polls had the black candidate in front but he ended up losing.
They reckoned it was because when polled, many people said they were voting for the black candidate because they didnt want to be seen as racist, but when they entered the polling booth, their vote was purely based on racism - hence the white candidate winning
Sounded quite plausible
Edited after ziggy shows his superior knowledge
Something else called the 'cell-phone effect' may offset any remaining 'Bradley effect'
Polls are done using land-lines only. 20% of people don't have a land-line. Most of these are younger people and hence mostly Obama voters and so we have a sizeable group under-represented in polls.
Very sad for the poor woman not to have lived for a few more days to see her grandson become President.
May she RIP.
Being the auld cynical person I am, I just wonder will this news be the final push Obama needs to get over the line, unfortunately there is nothing like death to galvanise support and many may vote for him subliminally at the last minute out of sympathy.
Problem with illegals is that the republicans think the democrats are going to legalize them all, thus adding approx 12 million new democrats to the voting rolls. I feel bad for the poor woman-my issue is not with her, its with the media's double standards. If there was a similar "bombshell" about McCain everyone would be screaming holy blue murder. The Boston Globe didnt even report it from what I can see
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2008, 10:14:24 PM
Problem with illegals is that the republicans think the democrats are going to legalize them all, thus adding approx 12 million new democrats to the voting rolls. I feel bad for the poor woman-my issue is not with her, its with the media's double standards. If there was a similar "bombshell" about McCain everyone would be screaming holy blue murder. The Boston Globe didnt even report it from what I can see
Who is McCain's grandmother, Cleopatra?
Sad news about Obama's Grandmother.
RIP Madelyn.
Quote from: Tonto on November 03, 2008, 06:04:23 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 01:00:58 PM
The Bradley Effect.
Anyway I they feel that it won't affect Obama too much this time. He has a strong enough lead, plus he will get a strong black vote this time which should counteract 'The Bradley Effect'. I think, and I could be wrong, The Bradley Effect is about a 5-6 point swing and Obama is ahead in the polls by more. I'm sure I will probably be proved wrong with regards the points.
The poll on the front page of The Times today had Obama at 51.9% and McCain at 47.2%.
It's going to be a lot closer than some are making out, I think...
A USA/Today Gallup poll published on Monday gives Senator Obama an 11-point lead over Senator McCain to be the next occupant of the White House.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on November 03, 2008, 10:08:32 PM
Very sad for the poor woman not to have lived for a few more days to see her grandson become President.
May she RIP.
Being the auld cynical person I am, I just wonder will this news be the final push Obama needs to get over the line, unfortunately there is nothing like death to galvanise support and many may vote for him subliminally at the last minute out of sympathy.
I agree, the picture of Obama with his white grandmother all over the evening news will help remind voters that Obama is half white. Sad for Obama but this will actually help him tomorrow.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on Today at 10:08:32 PM
Very sad for the poor woman not to have lived for a few more days to see her grandson become President.
May she RIP.
Being the auld cynical person I am, I just wonder will this news be the final push Obama needs to get over the line, unfortunately there is nothing like death to galvanise support and many may vote for him subliminally at the last minute out of sympathy.
I agree, the picture of Obama with his white grandmother all over the evening news will help remind voters that Obama is half white. Sad for Obama but this will actually help him tomorrow.
Can you imagine if McCain referred to someone as a "typical black person" (in the same way Obama referred to his grandmother as a "typical white person") they'd be diggging around in his trash looking for white robes and a hood and the remenants of a burning cross. Unbelievable what Obama was able to get away with during this election!
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2008, 11:41:13 PM
Can you imagine if McCain referred to someone as a "typical black person" (in the same way Obama referred to his grandmother as a "typical white person") they'd be diggging around in his trash looking for white robes and a hood and the remenants of a burning cross. Unbelievable what Obama was able to get away with during this election!
Let's see...
Here is the original statement in his speech on race in the US:
I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.Here is the statement you refer to where he was clarifying (as if it was needed) the statement above...
The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know, you know, there's a reaction that's been bred in our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society.That's pretty f**king far from klan hoods and burning crosses. The simple truth is that many Americans are wary of young black males. That is a fact. Stating that does not make Obama racist. You should go back and read the original speech. You might learn something.
Quotelet's assume that Obama did know his aunt was illegal. Was he supposed to turn her in?
Well it would be setting a bad example as well as double standards in it's purist form for someone in his position to knowingly overlook it IMO
it's not like illegal immigration and border security isn't in the fore front of a lot of minds in this country
anyway at least we know who's side he's on in that particular issue ;)
Quote from: whitey on November 03, 2008, 10:14:24 PM
Problem with illegals is that the republicans think the democrats are going to legalize them all, thus adding approx 12 million new democrats to the voting rolls. I feel bad for the poor woman-my issue is not with her, its with the media's double standards. If there was a similar "bombshell" about McCain everyone would be screaming holy blue murder. The Boston Globe didnt even report it from what I can see
Given that McCain sponsored the ill-fated immigration bill last year, I doubt if he would have got much hassle. If one of the senators or congressmen or talkshow hosts who whipped up the opposition to the bill had been in the situation, then there would have been a huge reaction.
Personally, I do not see how Obama or McCain could be held responsible for a relative being illegal in this manner, and thus the media (and the McCain campaign) are correct to let it go. Feel free, yourself or TO, to tell me why I'm wrong.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 04, 2008, 12:44:47 AM
Quotelet's assume that Obama did know his aunt was illegal. Was he supposed to turn her in?
Well it would be setting a bad example as well as double standards in it's purist form for someone in his position to knowingly overlook it IMO
it's not like illegal immigration and border security isn't in the fore front of a lot of minds in this country
anyway at least we know who's side he's on in that particular issue ;)
And if he turned her in you'd be up in arms over his callousness to his aunt.
Sorry TO, but his aunt is a grown woman. Her legal status is not Obama's responsibility. If he, say, gave her a job knowing she was illegal, that would be a different situation.
That's pretty f**king far from klan hoods and burning crosses. The simple truth is that many Americans are wary of young black males. That is a fact. Stating that does not make Obama racist. You should go back and read the original speech. You might learn something.
If you took your head out of your ar$e you wouldnt have made such a stuoid response. If McCain used the words "typical black person" (regardless of the context) he would have been hammered by the main stream media. Thats where the double standard exists. Obama has gotten passes on every single questionable aspect of his background, campaign and past associations.
I dont need to learn anything-I am plenty well informed already and will be casting my vote for Johnny Mc @7.00 am tomorrow morning. Onwards to victory
Sorry TO, but his aunt is a grown woman. Her legal status is not Obama's responsibility. If he, say, gave her a job knowing she was illegal, that would be a different situation.
Or if he say accepted a campaign donation from an illegal immigrant would that be different? Get full information before you start spouting off (or at least stop taking your talking poinys from CNN)
QuoteIf he, say, gave her a job knowing she was illegal, that would be a different situation.
Jaysus give him a chance, he hasn't even gotten into office yet :P
Did he accept a campaign donation - if someone donates online how is he to know that this person is an illegal immigrant? Just interested if you are asserting that a person approached Obama directly, with a fiver in their hand and told him he/she was an illegal immigrant?
You could do likewise from Fox Mr. Bolger ;D
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 04, 2008, 02:00:10 AM
QuoteIf he, say, gave her a job knowing she was illegal, that would be a different situation.
Jaysus give him a chance, he hasn't even gotten into office yet :P
The first Republican concedes ;D :D ;D
Quote from: stephenite on November 04, 2008, 02:01:51 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 04, 2008, 02:00:10 AM
QuoteIf he, say, gave her a job knowing she was illegal, that would be a different situation.
Jaysus give him a chance, he hasn't even gotten into office yet :P
The first Republican concedes ;D :D ;D
Sure the media here have been in celebratory mood for the better part of a week... you boys must be rubbing off on me ;)
Pssst.......... For the umpteenth time, I'm not a Republican 8)
Quote from: stephenite on November 04, 2008, 02:01:23 AM
Did he accept a campaign donation - if someone donates online how is he to know that this person is an illegal immigrant? Just interested if you are asserting that a person approached Obama directly, with a fiver in their hand and told him he/she was an illegal immigrant?
You could do likewise from Fox Mr. Bolger ;D
2 issues-(1) she's on welfare (2) she made a contribution to his campaign-both of which are illegal for an illegal to do. His campaign gave the money back.
(By every account she's a lovely lady whos seen some really tough times and should be left alone BUT if a republican had similar skeletons in the closet I can only imagine the $hit storm that would have been on the front page of every paper in the country) McCains not getting a fair shake and thats whats pi$$ing me off.
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2008, 01:57:31 AM
Sorry TO, but his aunt is a grown woman. Her legal status is not Obama's responsibility. If he, say, gave her a job knowing she was illegal, that would be a different situation.
Or if he say accepted a campaign donation from an illegal immigrant would that be different? Get full information before you start spouting off (or at least stop taking your talking poinys from CNN)
I thought he returned the donation? Given that both campaigns require donors to tick a box saying they're citizens, what else would you have him do?
I rarely watch CNN. The only one I'd watch with any regularity is O'Reilly, with a little bit of Olberman thrown in there too.
Whatever about McCain he was always going to find it tough. Most Americans gave the Republicans a chance with Bush (Due to the Democratic candidate having no charisma whatsoever) and he dropped them in the shit so they can't see McCain reversing this.
Add to this O'Bama's charisma, the fact he's an ethnic minority and the fact that Palin is probably the worst choice as a VP candidate in history and you have the reasons why McCain won't get in.
in my honest opinion the American presidential election is sadly not based on policies and who is best for the country. It is who looks and feels like they will run the country better. O'Bama has that confidence and charisma which McCain doesn't so he will get in. He has a tough job on his hands though and if the Republicans can get their act together they will have a good shot at regaining the whitehouse in 4 years time.
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2008, 02:14:28 AM
Quote from: stephenite on November 04, 2008, 02:01:23 AM
Did he accept a campaign donation - if someone donates online how is he to know that this person is an illegal immigrant? Just interested if you are asserting that a person approached Obama directly, with a fiver in their hand and told him he/she was an illegal immigrant?
You could do likewise from Fox Mr. Bolger ;D
2 issues-(1) she's on welfare (2) she made a contribution to his campaign-both of which are illegal for an illegal to do. His campaign gave the money back.
(By every account she's a lovely lady whos seen some really tough times and should be left alone BUT if a republican had similar skeletons in the closet I can only imagine the $hit storm that would have been on the front page of every paper in the country) McCains not getting a fair shake and thats whats pi$$ing me off.
McCain has Fox News and every talk radio host in the country shouting for him. Throw in popular conservative newspapers like the NY Post or the Washington Times as well. Then the negative ads, the robocalls, the emails, the literature inundating the country on Obama too. Are you sure you're just not pissed off that people aren't responding to them?
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2008, 01:49:30 AM
That's pretty f**king far from klan hoods and burning crosses. The simple truth is that many Americans are wary of young black males. That is a fact. Stating that does not make Obama racist. You should go back and read the original speech. You might learn something.
If you took your head out of your ar$e you wouldnt have made such a stuoid response. If McCain used the words "typical black person" (regardless of the context) he would have been hammered by the main stream media. Thats where the double standard exists. Obama has gotten passes on every single questionable aspect of his background, campaign and past associations.
I dont need to learn anything-I am plenty well informed already and will be casting my vote for Johnny Mc @7.00 am tomorrow morning. Onwards to victory
Obama has gotten a pass because the electorate are choosing to give him a pass. All of the stories about Ayers, Wright and so on have been playing ad nauseum for the past eight months since the Clintons started them. And for all of the crying about the treatment of McCain and, especially, Palin by the press, where have the stories about the likes of the Alaska Independence party been? Is secessionism more acceptable than a bitter black man saying "God damn America"? Where have the character attacks on McCain for the way he treated his first wife or his (and his wife's family's) associations with Charles Keating? He has gotten a pass because of his prisoner-of-war years, and that is fine by me, but the idea that Obama would lose if only the press would highlight Reverend Wright is pure and utter bollocks.
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2008, 02:26:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2008, 02:14:28 AM
Quote from: stephenite on November 04, 2008, 02:01:23 AM
Did he accept a campaign donation - if someone donates online how is he to know that this person is an illegal immigrant? Just interested if you are asserting that a person approached Obama directly, with a fiver in their hand and told him he/she was an illegal immigrant?
You could do likewise from Fox Mr. Bolger ;D
2 issues-(1) she's on welfare (2) she made a contribution to his campaign-both of which are illegal for an illegal to do. His campaign gave the money back.
(By every account she's a lovely lady whos seen some really tough times and should be left alone BUT if a republican had similar skeletons in the closet I can only imagine the $hit storm that would have been on the front page of every paper in the country) McCains not getting a fair shake and thats whats pi$$ing me off.
McCain has Fox News and every talk radio host in the country shouting for him. Throw in popular conservative newspapers like the NY Post or the Washington Times as well. Then the negative ads, the robocalls, the emails, the literature inundating the country on Obama too. Are you sure you're just not pissed off that people aren't responding to them?
Per Wikipedia-so I cant vouch for its accuracy
During the 2008 United States presidential election, newspapers, magazines, and other publications made general election endorsements. As of November 3, 2008, Barack Obama had received close to three times as many publication endorsements as John McCain; in terms of circulation, the ratio was close to 4 to 1, according to the detailed tables below. In summary:
Summary of Endorsements (with circulation) as of November 1, 2008
Obama McCain
pubs. circ. pubs. circ.
Daily Newspapers[1] 315 30,630,489 145 10,552,019
Magazines, weekly papers, and other publications 143 8,958,480 26 445,992
Total 458 39,588,969 171 10,998,011
Party Switches 62 9
According to Editor & Publisher magazine, as of October 31, was 240 newspapers to 114. By comparison, the magazine reported that before election day in 2004, John Kerry received 213 endorsements compared to 205 for George W. Bush.[2]
The 'free" media (eg NPR) is overwhelmingly in favor of Obama-you have to pay to watch Fox. Fox only appeals to those who hold right wing views to begin with, and probably people who have access to many other sources of information. The "free" media is (imho) probably the main source of information for many low income voters and radion stations like NPR are heavily subsidized by taxpayer money.
There is 2 sides to every story....and the truth lies somewhere in the middle!!!!!
Even the Financial Times and the Economist have endorsed Obama this time out. They're hardly liberal publications, now are they?
Kerry and Bush just about split 50/50 last time out, so have all those newspapers turned liberal in the space of four years, or do many of the editorial teams simply feel its time for a change of track in the White House? Even Fox News say that McCain has run an awful campaign, so surely he has to take a lot of the blame himself for failing to make his case?
Anyway, we're being told day-in, day-out on Fox News and talk radio that the "free media" such as CBS Evening News is dying a death, while talk radio is freely available all over the country and constantly boasting of their influence.
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2008, 02:26:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2008, 02:14:28 AM
Quote from: stephenite on November 04, 2008, 02:01:23 AM
Did he accept a campaign donation - if someone donates online how is he to know that this person is an illegal immigrant? Just interested if you are asserting that a person approached Obama directly, with a fiver in their hand and told him he/she was an illegal immigrant?
You could do likewise from Fox Mr. Bolger ;D
2 issues-(1) she's on welfare (2) she made a contribution to his campaign-both of which are illegal for an illegal to do. His campaign gave the money back.
(By every account she's a lovely lady whos seen some really tough times and should be left alone BUT if a republican had similar skeletons in the closet I can only imagine the $hit storm that would have been on the front page of every paper in the country) McCains not getting a fair shake and thats whats pi$$ing me off.
McCain has Fox News and every talk radio host in the country shouting for him. Throw in popular conservative newspapers like the NY Post or the Washington Times as well. Then the negative ads, the robocalls, the emails, the literature inundating the country on Obama too. Are you sure you're just not pissed off that people aren't responding to them?
The Republican campaign is run like the Church, they scare you into their views.
Ex: Obama met a 60's & early 70's radical hence he is EVIL. Obama's middle name is Hussein so he must be a terrorist's ally
Fear mongering is the desperate act of desperate people and it has been televised every other minute on TV.
I don't envy whoever gets elected, they have one hell of a mess to clean up after "W".
What kills me is "W" ran 3 companies into the ground but the religous right we so scared of terrorists and of John Kerry they had to have "W" back in power, so it just shows you never know what can happen election day.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 04, 2008, 02:00:10 AM
QuoteIf he, say, gave her a job knowing she was illegal, that would be a different situation.
Jaysus give him a chance, he hasn't even gotten into office yet :P
Well, let's hope that whichever one of them wins accepts that he is subject to the laws of the country like all the rest of us, unlike Bush, Cheney, Rove etc.
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2008, 02:40:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2008, 02:26:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2008, 02:14:28 AM
Quote from: stephenite on November 04, 2008, 02:01:23 AM
Did he accept a campaign donation - if someone donates online how is he to know that this person is an illegal immigrant? Just interested if you are asserting that a person approached Obama directly, with a fiver in their hand and told him he/she was an illegal immigrant?
You could do likewise from Fox Mr. Bolger ;D
2 issues-(1) she's on welfare (2) she made a contribution to his campaign-both of which are illegal for an illegal to do. His campaign gave the money back.
(By every account she's a lovely lady whos seen some really tough times and should be left alone BUT if a republican had similar skeletons in the closet I can only imagine the $hit storm that would have been on the front page of every paper in the country) McCains not getting a fair shake and thats whats pi$$ing me off.
McCain has Fox News and every talk radio host in the country shouting for him. Throw in popular conservative newspapers like the NY Post or the Washington Times as well. Then the negative ads, the robocalls, the emails, the literature inundating the country on Obama too. Are you sure you're just not pissed off that people aren't responding to them?
Per Wikipedia-so I cant vouch for its accuracy
During the 2008 United States presidential election, newspapers, magazines, and other publications made general election endorsements. As of November 3, 2008, Barack Obama had received close to three times as many publication endorsements as John McCain; in terms of circulation, the ratio was close to 4 to 1, according to the detailed tables below. In summary:
Summary of Endorsements (with circulation) as of November 1, 2008
Obama McCain
pubs. circ. pubs. circ.
Daily Newspapers[1] 315 30,630,489 145 10,552,019
Magazines, weekly papers, and other publications 143 8,958,480 26 445,992
Total 458 39,588,969 171 10,998,011
Party Switches 62 9
According to Editor & Publisher magazine, as of October 31, was 240 newspapers to 114. By comparison, the magazine reported that before election day in 2004, John Kerry received 213 endorsements compared to 205 for George W. Bush.[2]
The 'free" media (eg NPR) is overwhelmingly in favor of Obama-you have to pay to watch Fox. Fox only appeals to those who hold right wing views to begin with, and probably people who have access to many other sources of information. The "free" media is (imho) probably the main source of information for many low income voters and radion stations like NPR are heavily subsidized by taxpayer money.
There is 2 sides to every story....and the truth lies somewhere in the middle!!!!!
This newspaper has NEVER endorsed a Democratic nominee
Tribune endorsement: Barack Obama for president
2:33 PM CDT, October 17, 2008
Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama campaigns in Roanoke, Va. today. (Getty photo by Joe Raedle / October 17, 2008)
1 2 next However this election turns out, it will dramatically advance America's slow progress toward equality and inclusion. It took Abraham Lincoln's extraordinary courage in the Civil War to get us here. It took an epic battle to secure women the right to vote. It took the perseverance of the civil rights movement. Now we have an election in which we will choose the first African-American president . . . or the first female vice president.
In recent weeks it has been easy to lose sight of this history in the making. Americans are focused on the greatest threat to the world economic system in 80 years. They feel a personal vulnerability the likes of which they haven't experienced since Sept. 11, 2001. It's a different kind of vulnerability. Unlike Sept. 11, the economic threat hasn't forged a common bond in this nation. It has fed anger, fear and mistrust.
On Nov. 4 we're going to elect a president to lead us through a perilous time and restore in us a common sense of national purpose.
The strongest candidate to do that is Sen. Barack Obama. The Tribune is proud to endorse him today for president of the United States.
On Dec. 6, 2006, this page encouraged Obama to join the presidential campaign. We wrote that he would celebrate our common values instead of exaggerate our differences. We said he would raise the tone of the campaign. We said his intellectual depth would sharpen the policy debate. In the ensuing 22 months he has done just that.
Many Americans say they're uneasy about Obama. He's pretty new to them.
We can provide some assurance. We have known Obama since he entered politics a dozen years ago. We have watched him, worked with him, argued with him as he rose from an effective state senator to an inspiring U.S. senator to the Democratic Party's nominee for president.
We have tremendous confidence in his intellectual rigor, his moral compass and his ability to make sound, thoughtful, careful decisions. He is ready.
The change that Obama talks about so much is not simply a change in this policy or that one. It is not fundamentally about lobbyists or Washington insiders. Obama envisions a change in the way we deal with one another in politics and government. His opponents may say this is empty, abstract rhetoric. In fact, it is hard to imagine how we are going to deal with the grave domestic and foreign crises we face without an end to the savagery and a return to civility in politics.
-----------------------
This endorsement makes some history for the Chicago Tribune. This is the first time the newspaper has endorsed the Democratic Party's nominee for president.
The Tribune in its earliest days took up the abolition of slavery and linked itself to a powerful force for that cause--the Republican Party. The Tribune's first great leader, Joseph Medill, was a founder of the GOP. The editorial page has been a proponent of conservative principles. It believes that government has to serve people honestly and efficiently.
With that in mind, in 1872 we endorsed Horace Greeley, who ran as an independent against the corrupt administration of Republican President Ulysses S. Grant. (Greeley was later endorsed by the Democrats.) In 1912 we endorsed Theodore Roosevelt, who ran as the Progressive Party candidate against Republican President William Howard Taft.
The Tribune's decisions then were driven by outrage at inept and corrupt business and political leaders.
We see parallels today.
The Republican Party, the party of limited government, has lost its way. The government ran a $237 billion surplus in 2000, the year before Bush took office -- and recorded a $455 billion deficit in 2008. The Republicans lost control of the U.S. House and Senate in 2006 because, as we said at the time, they gave the nation rampant spending and Capitol Hill corruption. They abandoned their principles. They paid the price.
We might have counted on John McCain to correct his party's course. We like McCain. We endorsed him in the Republican primary in Illinois. In part because of his persuasion and resolve, the U.S. stands to win an unconditional victory in Iraq.
It is, though, hard to figure John McCain these days. He argued that President Bush's tax cuts were fiscally irresponsible, but he now supports them. He promises a balanced budget by the end of his first term, but his tax cut plan would add an estimated $4.2 trillion in debt over 10 years. He has responded to the economic crisis with an angry, populist message and a misguided, $300 billion proposal to buy up bad mortgages.
McCain failed in his most important executive decision. Give him credit for choosing a female running mate--but he passed up any number of supremely qualified Republican women who could have served. Having called Obama not ready to lead, McCain chose Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. His campaign has tried to stage-manage Palin's exposure to the public. But it's clear she is not prepared to step in at a moment's notice and serve as president. McCain put his campaign before his country.
Quote
Well, let's hope that whichever one of them wins accepts that he is subject to the laws of the country like all the rest of us, unlike Bush, Cheney, Rove etc.
Ah come on now, ye left Ted Kennedy amongst others off that list for some reason :o
its been nice arguing with you all but I have to go to bed.
Bottom line is the country is ready for change. McCain is actually a pretty decent guy and nowhere near as bad as he's being painted. Obama is actually a pretty decent guy too-a little slick for my liking but he's one smart cookie and I think he will do a decent job as long as he doesnt raise my taxes. Long term senators like McCain rarely get elected because they've got a track record that you can hammer them with. Obama really has no legislative track record, so all you have to hammer him about is the people he hangs around with. No-one really knows what his positions are on a variety of topics.
Its my first general election as a US citizen so should be interesting. I voted in the mid term elections 2 years ago and was right in line behind a guy who's son was killed in Iraq-19 years old. Talk about democracy in action!
Good night
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 04, 2008, 02:57:16 AM
Quote
Well, let's hope that whichever one of them wins accepts that he is subject to the laws of the country like all the rest of us, unlike Bush, Cheney, Rove etc.
Ah come on now, ye left Ted Kennedy amongst others off that list for some reason :o
Wasn't thinking back that far, but yes, Ted Kennedy should have went to prison IMO and will forever have his name blackened by Chappaquidick, no matter how many good things he's tried to do since.
I am just hoping with the price of gas (even though its lower) I won't have to shovel Stew's driveway ;D
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2008, 03:04:03 AM
its been nice arguing with you all but I have to go to bed.
Bottom line is the country is ready for change. McCain is actually a pretty decent guy and nowhere near as bad as he's being painted. Obama is actually a pretty decent guy too-a little slick for my liking but he's one smart cookie and I think he will do a decent job as long as he doesnt raise my taxes. Long term senators like McCain rarely get elected because they've got a track record that you can hammer them with. Obama really has no legislative track record, so all you have to hammer him about is the people he hangs around with. No-one really knows what his positions are on a variety of topics.
Its my first general election as a US citizen so should be interesting. I voted in the mid term elections 2 years ago and was right in line behind a guy who's son was killed in Iraq-19 years old. Talk about democracy in action!
Good night
My late father, who hated Bush, was a big fan of McCain. I am not sure if he would have stayed with him after the selection of Palin though. I would have given him a serious look myself if he had gone with a more moderate VP pick like Lieberman, but I suppose it was inevitable that he would have to try to win over the right wing base and thus go with someone like Palin. McCain seems reasonably moderate to me, his rightward shift in this campaign notwithstanding, but I just cannot find enough common ground with Palin and those who would support her. There is too much about the religious right that seriously pisses me off! I do not think she is dumb - in fact she appears to be a fairly formidable politician to me, and I will not be surprised to see her win the GOP nomination next time its up for grabs. She will likely never get my vote however. There are things I find troubling about the Democrats, but they basically piss me off much less than the Republicans. Obama appears to be a very intelligent guy to me, and I agree with a lot of his aims. He is untested in terms of a position of this magnitude, but he appears to have the temperament and discipline to make a success of it, to me anyway. Of course, like any president, whichever man wins will be, to some extent, a victim of circumstances. The opportunity is there to make a big mark though - the greatest presidents have been those who have succeeded in very difficult circumstances.
I'm not quite sure i grasp the strong views here that Fox is sooo right wing and unbalanced, I was listening to Lou Dobbs
the other day talking about a recent report released from the Center for Journalistic excellence regarding the bias in the media
towards the election, MSNBC was disgraceful, I know what a shocker, something like 73% negatively towards McCain and 19%
negative towards Mr. Obama :o NBC weren't a whole lot better but shockingly and contrary to popular belief, FOX
news had reported exactly 40% negatively towards both candidates, I was genuinely surprised when i heard it.
Maybe some of ye can help me understand the unbalanced belief :-\
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/03/palin.investigation/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
Yet another unfounded attack on her Character put to sleep ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 04, 2008, 03:24:12 AM
I'm not quite sure i grasp the strong views here that Fox is sooo right wing and unbalanced, I was listening to Lou Dobbs
the other day talking about a recent report released from the Center for Journalistic excellence regarding the bias in the media
towards the election, MSNBC was disgraceful, I know what a shocker, something like 73% negatively towards McCain and 19%
negative towards Mr. Obama :o NBC weren't a whole lot better but shockingly and contrary to popular belief, FOX
news had reported exactly 40% negatively towards both candidates, I was genuinely surprised when i heard it.
Maybe some of ye can help me understand the unbalanced belief :-\
That is surprising to me. Is the negativity graded? Hannity's "expose" of Obama was pretty far out there in terms of negativity! I accept that Mike Wallace and Brit Hume would be more round-table, balanced programmes - I enjoy Hume's "all-star" bit, although it is right-leaning IMO. Hannity and Colmes is a joke of a programme though - do people not get tired of watching Holmes getting hammered night after night in a programme whose agenda is so obviously right-wing and set by Hannity and geared towards him and his point of view? O'Reilly tries to put on an air of objectivity and can be quite good, but there is no mistaking that he is right-wing. I can't stand Greta Van Susteren, especially given her Palin obsession over the past two months. The daytime and morning people are definitely right-leaning though. You always feel like they're sneering at Obama and the Democrats. I would ask though, where are the exposes of McCain to match the Obama one?
I have started watching a bit of MSNBC of late since noting your disgust at them ( ;)), and actually find their coverage quite good. Olberman and Maddow are liberal, no question, but they don't pretend otherwise. Matthews seems objective enough to me, but is liberal-leaning in probably the same way O'Reilly is conservative-leaning.
I guess a lot of it is in the eye of the beholder.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 04, 2008, 03:47:22 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/03/palin.investigation/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
Yet another unfounded attack on her Character put to sleep ::)
So she and her husband didn't pull strings and exert pressure to get her former brother-in-law sacked then? :D
Nope...sure CNN said so ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 04, 2008, 03:47:22 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/03/palin.investigation/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
Yet another unfounded attack on her Character put to sleep ::)
Irony is alive and kicking! Happy election day folks.
QuoteMcCain is actually a pretty decent guy and nowhere near as bad as he's being painted.
Whitey - I don't think many would say otherwise and in fact I don't think he is painted in a bad light. I would have huge respect for him on his own. His running mate and elements of his party though....
America to choose between a black man and a catholic, who'd have thought thought it? I like McCain, Palin is an absolute clown, watching the VP debate was arseclenchingly excruiating. I have listened to a few of Obama's speeches, with which you cant help but be impressed, but I reckon there's less to him than meets the eye. Smooth talking can only take you so far, is there substance behind it?
Mc Cain would have done better without Palin - she looks well, sounds good but doesn't know very much about politics etc etc.
Obama to win very, very comfortably.
QuoteSmooth talking can only take you so far, is there substance behind it?
The sad thing is, the electorate only appear to vote for the former.
QuoteObama is actually a pretty decent guy too-a little slick for my liking but he's one smart cookie and I think he will do a decent job as long as he doesnt raise my taxes.
Following the $700bn bail out using public funds I cannot see how raising taxes can be avoided in the short to medium term with the US economy in such a mess.
Barack Obama came up a big winner in the presidential race in Dixville Notch, New Hampshire, where the US's first Election Day votes have been cast and counted.
The Democrat candidate for the White House defeated Republican John McCain 15-6. Independent Ralph Nader was also on the ballot, but received no votes.
The first voter, following a tradition established in 1948, was picked ahead of the midnight voting and the rest of the town's registered voters followed suit in the first minutes of Tuesday.
Town Clerk Rick Erwin said the northern New Hampshire town was proud of its tradition, but said the most important thing was that the turnout represented a 100% vote.
President George Bush won the vote in Dixville Notch in 2004 on the way to his re-election.
Obama 333 McCain 205
I had to wait an hour and a half this morning to vote, way longer than in 2004, turnout looks to be way up.
biggest since the 60's i hear
(http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/political-pictures-barack-obama-chill-out-got-this.jpg)
Quote from: dec on November 04, 2008, 03:30:44 PM
I had to wait an hour and a half this morning to vote, way longer than in 2004, turnout looks to be way up.
In and out in less than 5 minutes.
The touch screen is the best.
Voted at the local school and ALL the kids were saying "I hope you voted for Obama" and these are 7-12 year old kids.
Just watching coverage on the ITV news, McCain looks like a desperate oul man compared to Obama.
Only one of them looks like a President.
At what stage of the night are we expecting to learn anything conclusive on the results?
Quote from: ExiledGael on November 04, 2008, 10:12:23 PM
At what stage of the night are we expecting to learn anything conclusive on the results?
From what I gathered on the news earlier, 6am is when it will be
confirmed officially.
Quote from: ExiledGael on November 04, 2008, 10:12:23 PM
At what stage of the night are we expecting to learn anything conclusive on the results?
About 4 or 5 AM
Quote from: ExiledGael on November 04, 2008, 10:12:23 PM
At what stage of the night are we expecting to learn anything conclusive on the results?
It depends - tight states and recounts could put it back for hours and hours.
Quote from: Billys Boots on November 04, 2008, 09:29:41 AM
QuoteSmooth talking can only take you so far, is there substance behind it?
The sad thing is, the electorate only appear to vote for the former.
Will he be like Blair in that respect I wonder? He'll not meet expectations I'd imagine, but probably won't get the road in 2012 in the manner that Carter did.
Not long to go now, if it's tight, I'd go 273-265 Obama, but it may well be bigger, no landslide though.
Obama by TKO round 8.
Early precincts in favouring McCain heavily in Kentucky, to be expected, with Obama narrowly ahead in Indiana. Early days though.
Kentucky called for McCain
Vermont for Barack
A vote for either of those two puppets is a vote for more slavery. Only a short few weeks ago they both campaigned for the treasonous bailout. Will people ever learn?
Lets see if Obama is really for change. The first actions he should take is to repeal The Patriot Acts, The 2006 Military Commissions Act, John Warner National Defense Authorization Act, reinstate Posse Comitatus, bring US troops home from all foreign wars and have a proper investigation into 911 and that is only for starters.
Of course this is not going to happen as we are going to have more of the same. Eventually Obama will even make Bush, up until now the worst president in history, look good.
At least this two year Reality Show is almost at an end and we will have a Survivor for now
obana one! U herd it hear frist! i promice!
fer f**k stake! >:(
How have they called them so quick when they polls only closed? They couldn't be all that reliable projections.
Quote from: Rav67 on November 05, 2008, 12:05:50 AM
How have they called them so quick when they polls only closed? They couldn't be all that reliable projections.
Exit polls I assume Rav. Think they pretty much come out on the stroke of polls closing in most elections. I sat up and watched super Tuesday and it struck me how these "projections" are pretty much treated by American networks as the actual results.
Quote from: Rav67 on November 05, 2008, 12:05:50 AM
How have they called them so quick when they polls only closed? They couldn't be all that reliable projections.
The exit polls will have them comfortable winners, and past trends would indicate that. Vermont is safe Democrat. There will be a few of these through the night, but plenty will need some counting before a call could be made.
Anyone else sitting up all night for it? Gonna be a shit day at work tomorrow found it hard enough keeping the eyes open today.
I'm gonna sit up for a while and watch it.
I wonder if the boul Jenny Copeland is following it.
BBC and CNN coverage very good. Obama projeected to win pennsylvania! President Obama. mc cain no chance now
I hear the Black Panthers are intimidating white voters in Pennsylvania :o
Obama 103 McCain 43
All expected wins bar Obama's hold of Pennsylvania, McCain's big target. Doesn't look good now.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 05, 2008, 01:26:46 AM
I hear the Black Panthers are intimidating white voters in Pennsylvania :o
KKK doing the same elsewhere :o
Quote from: stephenite on November 05, 2008, 01:41:48 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 05, 2008, 01:26:46 AM
I hear the Black Panthers are intimidating white voters in Pennsylvania :o
KKK doing the same elsewhere :o
Where's that happening ?
All looking good for Obama.
Staying up to see another piece of history in de States.
Enjoying every minute of the excellent coverage between RTE and the BBC.
GREAT interview with jesse jackson on BBC. Studio people said that without someone like jesse jackson, there would be no President Obama today
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 05, 2008, 01:44:12 AM
Quote from: stephenite on November 05, 2008, 01:41:48 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 05, 2008, 01:26:46 AM
I hear the Black Panthers are intimidating white voters in Pennsylvania :o
KKK doing the same elsewhere :o
Where's that happening ?
Maybe I should have been more clear for the MSNBC boy's.............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCeD1RcJjAg
Like watching history in the making. Obama for President. Another Irish President in the White House ;)
Fox call Ohio for Obama.
TV3 is carrying CNN tonight.
Wowee some doll just got her ass kicked all over the BBC and then Dimblebey cut her off mid argument... great stuff. I thought she was right too. Thon hoor's a pompous Bible thumping Republican fogey!
All reports are having an Obama victory in Ohio and Florida... if it's confirmed it's game over!
Missed that. Was watching TV3 there. Hate flicking, always miss something on one of the other channels.
Looks like game over. Great campaign by McCain given the headwinds he faced with the economy, housing, stock market, Bush approval ratings in the 20 per cent range, etc etc. I am surprised he got as many votes as he got
Congratulations to Obama-you waged an even better campaign, winning states Democrats havent won in decades. I didnt vote for you, so please prove me and all the republicans wrong.
5 min wait at the polls....I am in a blue state so my vote for president doesnt really count. I really voted for all the other issues on the ballot
Decriminilization of small amounts of marajuana-yes
Eliminate state income tax-yes
Ban greyhound racing-yes
Build new $4.5M fire station in town (for the 3 volunteer firefighters)-no
Quote from: whitey on November 05, 2008, 02:34:50 AM
Looks like game over. Great campaign by McCain given the headwinds he faced with the economy, housing, stock market, Bush approval ratings in the 20 per cent range, etc etc. I am surprised he got as many votes as he got
Congratulations to Obama-you waged an even better campaign, winning states Democrats havent won in decades. I didnt vote for you, so please prove me and all the republicans wrong.
5 min wait at the polls....I am in a blue state so my vote for president doesnt really count. I really voted for all the other issues on the ballot
Decriminilization of small amounts of marajuana-yes
Eliminate state income tax-yes
Ban greyhound racing-yes
Build new $4.5M fire station in town (for the 3 volunteer firefighters)-no
Americans don't like greyhound racing?
McCain 124 Obama 200 - Just 70 more to go! Popular vote to date McCain 49% Obama 50%.
Eyes are getting heavy now... going to watch the next round of poll results which will hopefully put the nail in the coffin then I'm off to bed.
Key states Ohio, Pennsylvania and New Hampshire go to Obama.
screenexile, the next four states to close at 3 are all traditionally Republican states. You may go to bed.... unless Obama pulled off a surprise no-one's expecting. Nevada, Puck's state, coming up shortly.
McCain 135 Obama 207. Eddie Izzard tells the BBC that the 3rd Millenium starts tonight lol
Was hoping to get Florida and Nevada but not looking likely.
I'd love to smack this greyo moustachey looking Republican c**k on BBC. He doesn't seem to be taking this ass whooping gracefully!!!!!!
Night night folks...
Victory!!
Did you ever see a more dour person in your life lol Wasn't taking it well at all. Even giving out about the standard of the BBC reporting at one point. What about that excitable wee Republican that was being interviewed. Thought he was going to burst, he was that excited lol Anyway, eyes are heavy. Time I went to sleep. Looking forward to waking up in the morning to seeing the headlines President Elect Barack Obama. Goodnight all. :)
President elect Barack Obama.
I can actually hear people cheering in the streets and fireworks going off now.
President Obama has a nice ring to it.
McCain showed class with his defeat speech.
Now the work begins, a bunch of messes to cleanup.
Stew make sure you change the oil in that snowblower, I will not be heading north ;).
Quote from: Old Bill on November 05, 2008, 01:51:37 AM
GREAT interview with jesse jackson on BBC. Studio people said that without someone like jesse jackson, there would be no President Obama today
No one in Chicago likes Jesse Jackson(his home base), Obama should distance himself from the moron.
JESSE JACKSON SAYS HE WANTS TO CUT OBAMA'S 'NUTS OUT'
By CHARLES HURT, D.C. Bureau Chief
Jesse Jackson and Barack Obama
Last updated: 10:10 pm
July 9, 2008
Posted: 6:35 pm
July 9, 2008
WASHINGTON - In a vulgar tirade caught on tape by Fox News, the Rev. Jesse Jackson said he wanted to "cut his [Barack Obama's] nuts out" and he accused the fellow Chicagoan of "talking down to black folks" by giving moral lectures to African-Americans, source said Jackson's shocking quotes were picked up by a hot mic before an interview on health care in Fox's Chicago studio last Sunday
Fox planned to air the recording on Bill O'Reilly's "The Factor" show.
In an effort to blunt the controversy, Jackson issued an apology.
"For any harm or hurt that this hot mic conversation may have caused, I apologize," Jackson said in a statement.
Jackson said he couldn't recall everything he'd said in the studio but couched the remarks as part of a discussion about Obama speaking to black churchgoers.
In such settings, Obama has urged greater emphasis on fatherhood, advised parents to choose reading books over playing video games and most recently told young students to stick with school and forget about a career as a rap star or professional basketball player.
Jackson said that in doing so Obama was hurting his relationship with black voters, "that the senator was cutting off his you-know-whats with the black people and black churches."
Jackson told CNN that he called the Obama campaign to apologize and reiterated his support for the campaign of the first black nominee of a major party.
"My support for Senator Obama's campaign is wide, deep and unequivocal," he said in his statement. "I cherish this redemptive and historical moment."
Obama had no comment.
Great speeches from both McCain and Obama. I never thought it could happen in my life time.
I'm waiting for the official visit to Ireland when he suddenly discovers his Irish roots and was really O'Bama.
The lesser of the two evils methinks.
Quote from: Aerlik on November 05, 2008, 07:20:28 AM
I'm waiting for the official visit to Ireland when he suddenly discovers his Irish roots and was really O'Bama.
The lesser of the two evils methinks.
His roots are in Offaly ,We've known this for a year . I don't think the phrase lesser of two evils applies to Obama
Quote from: Gnevin on November 05, 2008, 09:11:41 AM
Quote from: Aerlik on November 05, 2008, 07:20:28 AM
I'm waiting for the official visit to Ireland when he suddenly discovers his Irish roots and was really O'Bama.
The lesser of the two evils methinks.
His roots are in Offaly ,We've known this for a year . I don't think the phrase lesser of two evils applies to Obama
You're right. There isn't enough difference in them to be able to distinguish. Not as far as we are concerned anyway.
2 Offaly men now in charge..............
Between them, the county is in for some serious investment.
There will be one hell of a homecoming for President Obama when he returns to Tullamore.....
I see Vice President elect Joe Biden has strong links to Ireland too.... its gona be a real paddys party at the white house :D
Quote from: ziggysego on November 05, 2008, 03:32:27 AM
Did you ever see a more dour person in your life lol Wasn't taking it well at all. Even giving out about the standard of the BBC reporting at one point. What about that excitable wee Republican that was being interviewed. Thought he was going to burst, he was that excited lol Anyway, eyes are heavy. Time I went to sleep. Looking forward to waking up in the morning to seeing the headlines President Elect Barack Obama. Goodnight all. :)
Quote from: dec on November 05, 2008, 04:01:27 AM
President elect Barack Obama.
Damn it. I couldn't hang on for another half hour :(
GO OBAMA!
I think it only appropriate to commend McCain on his dignity throughout the campaign and his graciousness in defeat. A great man imo involved with a not so nice Political Party with some really nasty edges to it. Measure of the man imo that he made a fight of the election despite Bush Jnr and the recent financial turmoil which really rendered his chances impossible.
Still feel that Obama will really disappoint as he cannot deliver on all his promises.Great also to see the first Catholic Vice President and "Irish" to boot.
Quote from: Canalman on November 05, 2008, 12:59:37 PM
Great also to see the first Catholic Vice President and "Irish" to boot.
I think Gerald Ford was Catholic. I know he wasn't elected but he was VP and later President.
There is some speculation on Freerepublic.com that Obama may in fact be the ANTICHRIST! :D
Fantastic, historic victory for Obama - it was like New Years Eve in New York City last night!
The hard part is obviously yet to come, but I think he can make a success of it.
Very nice speech from McCain, and much more like the man we knew.
So much for the Republican building majorities to last a generation (they were really talking about this in 2004). Four years is a long time in politics! :)
I thought that the american public would balk at electing a black man. Thank god I was wrong.
The republicans will say Obama bought the election, spending much more than McCain. Didn't know that McCain was limiting the amount he could spend. You would wonder about his ability if he expected that Obama would also limit his spending.
This might already have been covered as I haven't read through the thread. Are we all delighted for Obama because he is black or do we think he will be a better President? Is it the fact that it is historic that we a delighted?
I wouldn't say I am 'delighted', but I am glad that Obama will get his chance to put his stamp on the US, both foreign and economic policies at least. I have a feeling that some of his internal economic policies may be a bit unwelcome, but I hope his foreign policies will bring a bit of calmness to the scene.
I'd safely say, however, that the only sure thing about Obama's presidency will be that he will disappoint. Not necessarily because he will be a bad president (I don't think he will be) but because the expectations for him, and his 'Change' message have set the bar impossibly high.
I'd forgotten how much I liked McCain, until I saw his speech last night. Very gracious. It's a pity he couldn't be the man he wanted in the elections, rather than the man the Republican's wanted. Still, I was always supporting Obame anyway, so it's all good.
QuoteIt's a pity he couldn't be the man he wanted in the elections
There in lies the problem with the political system as it is in the 21st century.
Delighted Obama won - tough times ahead for him and his team but it sure gives you a sense of hope for the future.
Any chance he'll cancel Fox's licence??????????
Quote from: Declan on November 05, 2008, 01:56:39 PM
Delighted Obama won - tough times ahead for him and his team but it sure gives you a sense of hope for the future.
Why is that Declan?
Will "disadvantaged" black areas be better off now that Obama is in office?
Quote from: Minder on November 05, 2008, 02:32:35 PM
Will "disadvantaged" black areas be better off now that Obama is in office?
Such as the Congo? ;)
Quote from: Minder on November 05, 2008, 02:32:35 PM
Will "disadvantaged" black areas be better off now that Obama is in office?
People (black people and liberal whites) need to wake up to the fact that although he is a black man he is essentially running a business and cannot spend all his dough on helping the poor and downtrodden. Zap hit on a point I.ve mentioned in work that people are losing the run of themselves a bit in the fact that Obama is black so that must be a good thing for progressive legislation. Voting him in is not a social experiment like Eddie Murphy in Trading Places. He has a job to do whether he black, white or purple and it won't be an easy job with the current financial and foreign affairs difficulties.
Delighted for Obama, if runs the country like he ran both his primary and presidential campaigns he will be a great leader. Great to see Florida go with Obama, I never thought I would see southern states elect a black man as their choice as president. America has come along way in forty years.
(http://www.newseum.org/media/dfp/jpg5/lg/IL_CST.jpg)
Quote from: FL/MAYO on November 05, 2008, 02:55:25 PM
Delighted for Obama, if runs the country like he ran both his primary and presidential campaigns he will be a great leader. Great to see Florida go with Obama, I never thought I would see southern states elect a black man as their choice as president. America has come along way in forty years.
By spending 0.5 million a day on advertising in Virginia?
QuoteQuoteWhy is that Declan?
I think his approach to international affairs will be infinitely more inclusive and conciliatory than war criminal GWB. His rhetoric on domestic and economic policy indicates a willingness to tackle some of the obvious inequalities in America today. It remains to be seen what he can deliver given the macro economic difficulties etc but even the way he speaks and carries himself is impressive to me. I'm not naive enough to think he can disentangle the whole military industrial complex that has governed America in the last 8 years but I think it's a defining moment in history and this line from his speech this morning tells me we can look forward with a certain degree of confidence
"So let us summon a new spirit of patriotism, of responsibility, where each of us resolves to pitch in and work harder and look after not only ourselves but each other".
well, what about that for a result?
I'm quite optimistic about the fact that Obama won, and I think that the biggest impact that he will have will be the view of the US from abroad. No matter your background, its impressive that a minority has just won the presidency of the US with a support majority of the voting public.
The next question is whether as president Obama will have the sense to avoid forcing through legislation over the heads of the republicans- if that is the case then don't expect the result to live up to the rhetoric, however if he can get bipartisan support for his initiatives, then expect this to be one of the busiest terms of any president. And realistically he needs it to be in order to keep the popular support that he has.
My personal experience this morning of a number of very committed republicans is that they appreciate that this is a historic result and that they actually are a lot more supportive of Obama now that he has got in than I expected.
This morning saw the dollar strengthen, and although the dow is down that can be accredited to the fact that the Oil companies and big pharma will no longer see the huge profits they have under a republican government. On the flip side, natural gas and alternative energies are up.
The bad news is that we'll have to wait for a while to find out. Expect a few announcements this week on Cabinet positions- esp Treasury.
*************************
Quote from: Seamus on November 05, 2008, 12:01:33 AM
A vote for either of those two puppets is a vote for more slavery. Only a short few weeks ago they both campaigned for the treasonous bailout. Will people ever learn?
FFS Seamus- I'm a huge fan and believer in the fact that we as the general public only ever hear half the truth (and that's optimistic) But the bailout being treasonous- come on. The lack of legislation and direction about mortgages being granted is the biggest factor in the requirement for the bail out. Then whenever these unsafe mortgages ended up in the hands of the investment bankers (and more importantly the quants) they were treated as if they would have the same level of default as mortgage debt previously and the risk models applied went unchallenged. The ratings agencies were more interested in selling more and more data rather than investing in understanding the risk of the instruments they were pricing and voila- a house of cards.
Although the government did not tell people to get these unsafe mortgages- they share an element of the blame and therefore some of the responsibility. Had they not stepped in the human suffering would have been huge, job loss, property being owned by the banks- spiraling crime and less and less people having health care which would have caused health care collapse, social security collapse and less innovation and expenditure on R&D the engine of any economy. The government has an obligation to prevent the suffering of its people and that is why I feel the bail out was a necessity.
One of the biggest differences between the tax system in the US and Ireland or the UK is that there is a huge incentive in the US to become a home owner, because all of your mortgage payments (up to a mortgage amount of $1m) are tax free. Thus for your average joe punter, the amount of house they can get for a set amount of rent is about 35-45% less than that they can get if they buy. This leads to a lot of short cuts being found to getting a mortgage: interest free loans, intro rates for 2-3 years, 100% mortgages. More people getting these mortgages leads to increased demand for houses which then drives up prices.
As the crunch hit, less people got mortgages and the house prices started to drop, as the intro rates expired many people had to sell their house, and prices dropped further, then defaults increased and the market crashed.
Thus the need for the bail out- treasonous for some reason. I'd like to hear your alternative, I have heard a number of suggestions but not yet one which I feel could have achieved the desired result, and I remain unconvinced that this bail out will work, however it did buy time for the markets, many firms, and many households to adjust to the new financial reality that there is no such thing as free money and that there need to be caps on borrowing in relation to ability to repay.
Quote
Lets see if Obama is really for change. The first actions he should take is to repeal The Patriot Acts, The 2006 Military Commissions Act, John Warner National Defense Authorization Act, reinstate Posse Comitatus, bring US troops home from all foreign wars and have a proper investigation into 911 and that is only for starters.
all in good time, well maybe not all, you're not going to get the 911 report. The JWNDAA and Posse Comitatus? Did the NDAA 2008 not address your concerns? You'll get troops out of Iraq quickly and Afghanistan slowly. What else concerns you?
Quote from: heganboy on November 05, 2008, 03:43:33 PM
What else concerns you?
Rendition flights?
Good post BTW.
Fair play Declan.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 05, 2008, 03:28:10 PM
Unless I misheard something, Obama admitted in his victory speech that the aims he has set himself out for might not be able to take just a single term in office so maybe he's setting himself up a safety cushion to cover all but the worst case scenarios, I.E. he can go back and point this out down the line.
Well the recession has sort of thrown a small spanner in the works, don't you think? McCain admitted that he probably wouldn't get the budget balanced in one term as he has hoped and pledged. You play with the cards you're dealt.
Oh Jesus ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EADUQWKoVek&feature=related
Think i might name my 1st born lad after him.
Fair play to Obama. It does make the world warmer towards the US which is a genuine democracy and which has certainly moved on in that they can elect a Black person as President. Compare that with the northern part of this country and the same old ethnic prejudice from the DUP and where it is inconceivable that a Catholic could become first minister and such a person is legally prohibited from becoming head of State in that jurisdiction.
ITV followed up Obamas speach on the news bulletin with George W's congratulatory address.
f**king hell. He had to read it off a script. What a clown.!!
What worries me is that for all his and his party's f**k ups, almost 48% of the US electorate still opted to vote Republican.
Glass houses and all that.
Delighted for the States.
2 years ago I was thinking any candidate GOP or Dem would be a monumental improvement on the hubris of the last 8 years. I would have happily taken McCain at that stage.
Then I was hoping Clinton would be a strong enough candidate to defeat the GOP machine. But like lots of others I have been swept up in the sheer hypnosis of Obama's charisma.
Looking at the TV its as if a huge burden has been lifted off (most of) the American people. That is no reflection on McCain who was dignified beyond the call of duty.
Some here are already predicting only 1 term but I see two easily. He has both houses and a basket case nation internationally and locally. But the US bounces back quicker than anyone else. Things will surely be better in 4 years.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on November 05, 2008, 06:27:07 PM
Oh Jesus ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EADUQWKoVek&feature=related
Ah.... f**king hell.
(http://brownsugarpages.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/embarrassed.jpg)
No Irish Please
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urMlVn1ZwDg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urMlVn1ZwDg)
The Beeb need to drop this 'Obama's black' line pretty soon. Did they go on ad infinitim about Kennedy being a Fenian?
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on November 05, 2008, 09:10:34 PM
The Beeb need to drop this 'Obama's black' line pretty soon. Did they go on ad infinitim about Kennedy being a Fenian?
Or Bush being a muppet?
Quote from: AFS on November 05, 2008, 08:15:28 PM
How much of Obama's victory was down to his almost universal support from black voters? In 4 years, will Obama be able to mobilise the black vote to the extent he has this time? It seemed to become about more than just an election to the black community in the states and now that this bridge has been crossed there will never be another 'first black president' to grab hearts and minds- in this respect could it have been easier for Obama to win this time round than it will be for future black candidates?
Every campaign is about motivating the electorate. Bush won in '04 in large part to his campaign's success in mobilizing the christian right, which exceeded Kerry's also impressive mobilization of his support. You're probably right in that a lot of people who voted yesterday might stay home next time, but its up to the candidate to appeal to whatever his base is. McCain would have got a lot less of the christian right out this time around if he hadn't chosen Palin.
From The Onion... :)
Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job
November 5, 2008 | Issue 44•45
WASHINGTON—African-American man Barack Obama, 47, was given the least-desirable job in the entire country Tuesday when he was elected president of the United States of America. In his new high-stress, low-reward position, Obama will be charged with such tasks as completely overhauling the nation's broken-down economy, repairing the crumbling infrastructure, and generally having to please more than 300 million Americans and cater to their every whim on a daily basis. As part of his duties, the black man will have to spend four to eight years cleaning up the messes other people left behind. The job comes with such intense scrutiny and so certain a guarantee of failure that only one other person even bothered applying for it. Said scholar and activist Mark L. Denton, "It just goes to show you that, in this country, a black man still can't catch a break."
Check this song out! There's on one as Irish as Obama!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xkw8ip43Vk
Jaysus, I remember when Mayo got into the final in '89 a bunch of young fellas were going around lifting flags. There were people calling into Mid West radio giving out mad and The Connaught telegraph was full of letters people rarin up goodo. Next time you put up a flag, you may want to follow the lead of the guy who kept having his McCain signs lifted down in NC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRbrC1f6z8
Its not quite as effective as the guy out in Ohio who opened fire and shot one of the thieves
http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/2008/10/28/20081028SignShooting28-ON.html
Doubt we'll see Obama get as close to the people as he did during the campaign trail again, he was protected by bulletproof glass either side of him at his acceptance speech the other night...
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eXdcTe01E5fe/610x.jpg)
Looks like he's been banished to the Phantom Zone
We should be thankful the world has been saved from Sarah Palin. The latest news is that she's even more profoundly stupid than we knew. Newsweek has released some material it agreed to hold until after the election that reveals she didn't know South Africa was a country. She didn't know Africa was a continent - thought it was a country and South Africa was the southern part of it. Reportedly she asked the interviewers where it was.
Has the Canada escape plan been put on ice?
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid980795874/bclid1029828662/bctid1842856410 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid980795874/bclid1029828662/bctid1842856410)
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2008, 12:29:33 PM
We should be thankful the world has been saved from Sarah Palin. The latest news is that she's even more profoundly stupid than we knew. Newsweek has released some material it agreed to hold until after the election that reveals she didn't know South Africa was a country. She didn't know Africa was a continent - thought it was a country and South Africa was the southern part of it. Reportedly she asked the interviewers where it was.
This can't be true, can it? :o
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2008, 01:39:06 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2008, 12:29:33 PM
We should be thankful the world has been saved from Sarah Palin. The latest news is that she's even more profoundly stupid than we knew. Newsweek has released some material it agreed to hold until after the election that reveals she didn't know South Africa was a country. She didn't know Africa was a continent - thought it was a country and South Africa was the southern part of it. Reportedly she asked the interviewers where it was.
This can't be true, can it? :o
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/05/palin-didnt-know-africa-i_n_141653.html
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 06, 2008, 01:51:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2008, 01:39:06 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2008, 12:29:33 PM
We should be thankful the world has been saved from Sarah Palin. The latest news is that she's even more profoundly stupid than we knew. Newsweek has released some material it agreed to hold until after the election that reveals she didn't know South Africa was a country. She didn't know Africa was a continent - thought it was a country and South Africa was the southern part of it. Reportedly she asked the interviewers where it was.
This can't be true, can it? :o
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/05/palin-didnt-know-africa-i_n_141653.html
That is from Carl Cameron! Hardly a friend of the Democrats!
FFS lads ye got the result you wanted, Move on!
Is it really any more embarrassing than Obama saying he had been to 57 :o states so far during the primary's
and he thought he had 2 more to go or Biden talking about FDR Briefing America Via Television
during the crash of 1929 :o FDR wasn't president and TV was not a regular occurrence till after the war,
Biden talking about "J o b s" being a 3 letter word ::) at least it was regarding Africa and not America that she stumbled ::)
need i keep going to point out the idiocrisy not to mention the hypocrisy of the shite that has littered this thread.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 06, 2008, 04:42:39 PM
FFS lads ye got the result you wanted, Move on!
Is it really any more embarrassing than Obama saying he had been to 57 :o states so far during the primary's
and he thought he had 2 more to go or Biden talking about FDR Briefing America Via Television
during the crash of 1929 :o FDR wasn't president and TV was not a regular occurrence till after the war,
Biden talking about "J o b s" being a 3 letter word ::) at least it was regarding Africa and not America that she stumbled ::)
need i keep going to point out the idiocrisy not to mention the hypocrisy of the shite that has littered this thread.
What about thinking the world is only 6000 years old? ;D
Palin for 2012? Don't think her own party will even countenance that.
Ah in all seriousness...she's a feckin balloon.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 06, 2008, 04:42:39 PM
FFS lads ye got the result you wanted, Move on!
Is it really any more embarrassing than Obama saying he had been to 57 :o states so far during the primary's
and he thought he had 2 more to go or Biden talking about FDR Briefing America Via Television
during the crash of 1929 :o FDR wasn't president and TV was not a regular occurrence till after the war,
Biden talking about "J o b s" being a 3 letter word ::) at least it was regarding Africa and not America that she stumbled ::)
need i keep going to point out the idiocrisy not to mention the hypocrisy of the shite that has littered this thread.
Biden's gaffe about FDR, as usual, was certainly cringe-inducing, but Biden is legendary (or notorious) for his gaffes and faux pas at this stage. I wouldn't be too bothered about the "j-o-b-s" gaffe - that could happen to most. I've never seen Obama's 57 states one, but I'd be very surprised if it more than just a slip of the tongue, although I have heard the right-wing conspiracists make some muslim connection. Go ahead and give us more details. That Palin would have to have clarified that Africa is a continent, assuming it is true, is mind-boggling (and again, I do not think she is stupid). The reason it is being discussed is that all of this stuff is just coming out now, post-election. I'm sure there will be juicy details from behind the scenes of the Democratic campaign also.
Obama's gaffe:
"It is wonderful to be back in Oregon," Obama said. "Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit, but my staff would not justify it."
Leaving out Alaska and Hawaii, where he says he wasn't going to be allowed to go, and the one remaining unidentified state, he clearly meant 47. Big deal. But maybe it was a freudian slip and he really is a muslim like those right wing blogs say.
57 states is a verbal slip. Not knowing South Africa is a country, and Africa is a continent, and having to be put right by a journalist seems to suggest a lack of knowledge on behalf of someone who could end up leading the world last remaining super power. However on the other hand perhpas she mixed up Africa with Ireland or something, who's to know? Why would she need to know about Africa, one of the cradles of civilisation, especially if you don't even believe in evolution in the first place.
She couldn't come up with the name of one newspaper when asked (well, okay ambushed with the question) "which newspapers inform your world view?".
(paraphrasing):
- Well, any 'em ... all of 'em .. whatever
"Name one, specifically"
- Well ... ehhh. any of 'em, whatever's to hand ...
But yeah - Obama, former editor of Harvard Law Review is probably just as thick. ::)
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2008, 05:22:07 PM
She couldn't come up with the name of one newspaper when asked (well, okay ambushed with the question) "which newspapers inform your world view?".
(paraphrasing):
- Well, any 'em ... all of 'em .. whatever
"Name one, specifically"
- Well ... ehhh. any of 'em, whatever's to hand ...
But yeah - Obama, former editor of Harvard Law Review is probably just as thick. ::)
To be fair to her, I think she saw that question as kind of a "gotcha" question, and was basically trying to avoid the issue. Most newspapers in the US, as anywhere, tend to be split down partisan lines in terms of which are reputable and which aren't. No matter what answer she gave, she was going to get grief for it.
That makes sense. I should know better than to accept the spin delivered to me without having seen it myself.
She should have said "National Enquirer", of course, if she really had her finger on the pulse of her constituency.
Leave the hockeyed mum alone!
I know it's 2004, but I thought it might make interesting reading for Tyrones own ;)
(http://weird-shit.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/us-elections-qi.jpg)
Quote from: ziggysego on November 06, 2008, 07:30:20 PM
I know it's 2004, but I thought it might make interesting reading for Tyrones own ;)
(http://weird-shit.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/us-elections-qi.jpg)
How credible are those figures?
Hoax, it seems.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp
Spoil sport
Sorry - it should be true. Would be interesting, if anyone has the time and if the data is available to do the real one.
Well I dont give a fiddlers - I just sent it off to all those silly americans I know. I hope none of them have the time or inclination to check out www.ruinagoodyarnwiththetruth@snopes.com
The highest average IQ in that list (CT) is just about the general average. The Mississippi one would suggest a very large proportion of the population barely able to put one foot in front of another!
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2008, 08:18:46 PM
The highest average IQ in that list (CT) is just about the general average. The Mississippi one would suggest a very large proportion of the population barely able to put one foot in front of another!
Then it must be right.
Quote from: Puckoon on November 06, 2008, 08:19:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 06, 2008, 08:18:46 PM
The highest average IQ in that list (CT) is just about the general average. The Mississippi one would suggest a very large proportion of the population barely able to put one foot in front of another!
Then it must be right.
I lived in CT for 5 years. In lower Fairfield Co you have all the Wall St. types living intheir $10 m mansions-who probably have very high iqs. thereby upping the average. The rest of the state is either complete white trash or black ghetto, whose IQ is probably well under 100. Half of the people in Boston cant spell their own name either for that matter
I see the DUP have asked that Obama ensures that the White house continues to be a warm place for unionists like under Bush & co.
I'm sure it's high on his list of priorities!
Quote from: whitey on November 07, 2008, 02:05:25 AM
The rest of the state is either complete white trash or black ghetto, whose IQ is probably well under 100. Half of the people in Boston cant spell their own name either for that matter
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Hardy on November 06, 2008, 12:29:33 PM
We should be thankful the world has been saved from Sarah Palin. The latest news is that she's even more profoundly stupid than we knew. Newsweek has released some material it agreed to hold until after the election that reveals she didn't know South Africa was a country. She didn't know Africa was a continent - thought it was a country and South Africa was the southern part of it. Reportedly she asked the interviewers where it was.
In fairness she probably couldn't see it from Alaska.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/07/obama.seance/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
Tut Tut.....Somebody could do with a sensitivity class me thinks. :-[
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2008, 03:21:53 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/07/obama.seance/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
Tut Tut.....Somebody could do with a sensitivity class me thinks. :-[
Stupid comment. He should lay off the attempted jokes if they're going to be that bad. But at least he apologized to Mrs Reagan and acknowledged that it was a dumb thing to say.
I thought it was funny.
The Irish keep at it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlzY-hLhndo&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlzY-hLhndo&NR=1)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 08, 2008, 10:16:33 AM
I thought it was funny.
Even if it was funny, it was inappropriate. Joke about it in private, not in your first press conference as president-elect (which otherwise was impressive I thought).
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters
COLUMBIA, S.C. – A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."
The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.
"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.
But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.
According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.
"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."
Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.
Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.
"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."
A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.
"I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings."
Yet half of these morons probably support the death penalty and the Iraq war. Eternal damnation indeed.
It's going to be released as a single
Number 1 ??? U never know
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7794385.stm
How embarrassing is that..... leave it to Paddy :-[
Obama tickets 'sell in a minute'
Reserved seats for the US presidential inauguration parade have sold out within one minute of being put on sale, the ticket company has said.
More than 90% of the 5,000 seats available along the parade route in Washington were sold online.
The tickets cost $25 (£16) each - but some went on to reappear on internet sites at much higher prices.
Two million people are expected to crowd the National Mall as Barack Obama takes the oath of office on 20 January.
Most of the seats for the swearing-in ceremony are set aside for lawmakers, VIPs and diplomats.
The tickets that went on sale on Friday were for stands that line the route Mr Obama and his vice-president, Joe Biden, will take between the US Capitol and the White House.
Sales began at 1300 (1800 GMT) and went "blazingly fast", Albert Lopez, a spokesman for sales company Ticketmaster, said.
Linda Douglass, the chief spokeswoman for the inaugural committee, said the selling time was startling.
Workers build the inauguration stand on 7 November 2008
"You just have to assume there must have been people sitting there at their computers ready to go when the clock struck one," she said.
Inauguration officials strongly disapproved of anyone seeking to profit from the sale of the ticket, she said - as tickets appeared at 10 times their original price on auction site eBay.
The committee says it wants to make Barack Obama's inauguration one of the most accessible in US history.
Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7821631.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7821631.stm)
A far cry from Bush when he was re-inaugurated in 2005!
10 more days...
Sure he's well over his head already with a number of top Dems scratching their heads
at some of his antics... 10 more days is hardly gonna bring him up to speed ;D
And to think you boy's bought the Change Rhetoric :D...
FFS it's nothing more than a third term for the Clintons, good luck with that!
Christ, even the Republicans have been speaking approvingly of the vast majority of the appointees - very pragmatic and not quite the embracement of marxism that they spent the past six months trying to scare everyone into voting for McCain with. I've been impressed so far, but let's see how he fares with the colossal mess he's inheriting on all fronts.
10 days and counting...
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 10, 2009, 04:25:46 PM
Sure he's well over his head already with a number of top Dems scratching their heads
at some of his antics... 10 more days is hardly gonna bring him up to speed ;D
And to think you boy's bought the Change Rhetoric :D...
FFS it's nothing more than a third term for the Clintons, good luck with that!
Speaking with real american's (and immigrant americans) over the new year in the states it is amazing how many people are peddling the "change" word.
My favourite retort is that the only change you will see is whats left in your wallet after paying the essentials from your wages.
Some like my Nigerian cab driver equated this election like the second coming of jesus. It is just that hysterical. It's like President Idol, thats not a joke. But when the euphoria of a new man dies off and they get back to basics is there any difference apart from the colour of skin of the leading cast member? It's a lot of the same supporting cast in the lower ranks, a few new headline starts. Think Glenroe getting rid of Miley, Dinny and Biddy and replacing them with Denzel Washington, Robert De Niro and Heather Graham. Is it going to make it all better? Youy still have the same cowshite to deal with.
Watching George W Bush at the launching of the new Navy ship named after his father and he's up there cracking jokes and generally not giving a sht about the situation in the states, people from all walks of life losing their jobs yet some news shows are trying to equate job losses with which ethnic group has lost the most. The PC stuff is just so damn annoying, trying to "even" things out all the time.
Funny to see Obama "change" t-shirts in shops. Christ on a bike. That said I wish the guy luck and hope he can deliver on the US and international stage.
I'd say alot of this change stuff has to do with get rid of Bush and the Republican administration which destroyed the world's view of the US and made the world a much dangerous place to live in. Yes, and some to do with the 1st black President. To me, it's mainly goodbye Bush.
Since J70 has reminded us that there are just ten days of the Bush "administration" (I use the term in the sense that Bush administered to America and the world in the way a psychotic nurse would administer a sulphuric acid enema) ... and since Ziggy reminds us of what the Bush years have done for the USA's reputation in the world, I thought it might be appropriate to post an assessment of his presidency. It was written by Hunter S. Thompson, in his usual restrained, understated style! I'm reading his (kinda) autobiography at the moment - Kingdom Of Fear. It's interesting that just two years into his presidency, when this was written, Bush had already made such a powerful impact.
(I know, I know - I've been spouting about credibility and ideologically-skewed journalism and here I am quoting a man who was a self confessed "dangerous dope addict, a man given over in extremes to multiple hallucinations and other forms of aggressive personal dementia", but I think he's got it pretty much bang on about Bush). Over to Hunter:
Let's face it—the yo-yo president of the U.S.A. knows nothing. He is a dunce. He does what he is told to do—says what he is told to say— poses the way he is told to pose. He is a Fool.
This is never an easy thing for the voters of this country to accept.
No. Nonsense. The president cannot be a Fool. Not at this moment in time—when the last living vestiges of the American Dream are on the line. This is not the time to have a bogus rich kid in charge of the White House.
Which is, after all, our house. That is our headquarters—it is where the heart of America lives. So if the president lies and acts giddy about other people's lives—if he wantonly and stupidly endorses mass murder as a logical plan to make sure we are still Number One—he is a Jackass by definition—a loud and meaningless animal with no functional intelligence and no balls.
To say that this goofy child president is looking more and more like Richard Nixon in the summer of 1974 would be a flagrant insult to Nixon.
Whoops! Did I say that? Is it even vaguely possible that some New Age Republican whore-beast of a false president could actually make Richard Nixon look like a Liberal?
The capacity of these vicious assholes we elected to be in charge of our lives for four years to commit terminal damage to our lives and our souls and our loved ones is far beyond Nixon's. Shit! Nixon was the creator of many of the once-proud historical landmarks that these dumb b**tards are savagely destroying now: the Clean Air Act of 1970; Campaign Finance Reform; the endangered species act; opening a Real-Politik dialogue with China; and on and on.
The prevailing quality of life in America—by any accepted methods of measuring—was inarguably freer and more politically open under Nixon than it is today in this evil year of Our Lord 2002.
The Boss was a certified monster who deserved to be impeached and banished. He was a truthless creature of former FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover—a foul human monument to corruption and depravity on a scale that dwarfs any other public official in American history. But Nixon was at least smart enough to understand why so many honorable patriotic U.S. citizens despised him. He was a Liar. The truth was not in him.
Nixon believed—as he said many times—that if the president of the United States does it, it can't be illegal. But Nixon never understood the much higher and meaner truth of Bob Dylan's warning that "To live outside the law you must be honest."
The difference between an outlaw and a war criminal is the difference between a pedophile and a Pederast: The pedophile is a person who thinks about sexual behavior with children, and the Pederast does these things. He lays hands on innocent children—he penetrates them and changes their lives forever.
Being the object of a pedophile's warped affections is a Routine feature of growing up in America—and being a victim of a Pederast's crazed "love" is part of dying. Innocence is no longer an option. Once penetrated, the child becomes a Queer in his own mind, and that is not much different than murder.
Richard Nixon crossed that line when he began murdering foreigners in the name of "family values"—and George Bush crossed it when he sneaked into office and began killing brown-skinned children in the name of Jesus and the American people.
When Muhammad Ali declined to be drafted and forced to kill "gooks" in Vietnam he said, "I ain't got nothin' against them Viet Cong. No Cong ever called me Nigger"
I agreed with him, according to my own personal ethics and values. He was Right.
If we all had a dash of Muhammad All's eloquent courage, this country and the world would be a better place today because of it.
Okay. That's it for now. Read it and weep. . . . See you tomorrow, folks. You haven't heard the last of me. I am the one who speaks for the spirit of freedom and decency in you. Shit. Somebody has to do it.
We have become a Nazi monster in the eyes of the whole world—a nation of bullies and b**tards who would rather kill than live peacefully. We are not just Whores for power and oil, but killer whores with hate and fear in our hearts. We are human scum, and that is how history will judge us. . . . No redeeming social value. Just whores. Get out of our way, or we'll kill you.
Well, shit on that dumbness. George W. Bush does not speak for me or my son or my mother or my friends or the people I respect in this world. We didn't vote for these cheap, greedy little killers who speak for America today—and we will not vote for them again in 2002. Or 2004. Or ever.
Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush?
They are the same ones who wanted to have Muhammad Ali locked up for refusing to kill gooks. They speak for all that is cruel and stupid and vicious in the American character. They are the racists and hate mongers among us—they are the Ku Klux Klan. I piss down the throats of these Nazis.
And I am too old to worry about whether they like it or not. f**k them.
HST.2002
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 10, 2009, 04:25:46 PM
Sure he's well over his head already with a number of top Dems scratching their heads
at some of his antics... 10 more days is hardly gonna bring him up to speed ;D
And to think you boy's bought the Change Rhetoric :D...
FFS it's nothing more than a third term for the Clintons, good luck with that!
Yeah, that actually getting elected tactic is just mad! Those "top Dems" are the people who actually managed to lose an election not once but twice to George W Bush who was one of the most unpopular Presidents in history.
As for the remark about the Clintons - nothing could be further from the truth. Obama has virtually guaranteed there will be no 3rd Clinton presidency.
QuoteYeah, that actually getting elected tactic is just mad!
Antic Seanie..
Antic... as in his appointees..oh why do i bother ::)
QuoteThose "top Dems" are the people who actually managed to lose an election not once but twice to George W Bush
I don't recall Diane Feinstein running for president....when was that Seanie ???
QuoteAs for the remark about the Clintons - nothing could be further from the truth. Obama has virtually guaranteed there will be no 3rd Clinton presidency.
Strong statement....I'd be fairly interested in how you came to that conclusion?
Good piece from that looper Thompson on Bush. Obama mania is a bit much but when you're trying to reinvent a whole society and country, hype can help sometimes.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/sporkgirlmlp/lol/obama-chill-out-got-this.jpg)
I'm not sure what you're gloating about TO.
I'm certain you're smart enough to realise that Obama (or any other president) cannot please everyone in his party all of the time. If it wasn't Feinstein and the CIA thing, it would be (and will be) someone else over some other issue. So what? The fact is that the vast majority of people have been impressed by most of the appointments Obama has made since the election. We have not seen Al Sharpton appointed head of HUD or Cindy Sheehan secretary of defense or whatever apparently apocalyptic appointments the right was predicting as they attempted to scare the electorate.
In what way has his performance been so laughable? I see comments from the crazier sections of the right all the time about how he's "in over his head". Personally, I think these people (and I don't know if you count yourself among them) would be saying the same shit no matter who he appointed. At least some of the right wing talking heads have the courage to give him credit where he has made appointments they like e.g. General Jones or Robert Gates, although they let themselves down by whinging because Rahm Emanuel has "sharp elbows", as if that were a rarity in Washington politics!
Quote from: ziggysego on January 10, 2009, 08:34:24 PM
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/sporkgirlmlp/lol/obama-chill-out-got-this.jpg)
;D :D
I'm not gloating at all J...simply astonished as to how you idolatries aren't up in arms with his about face on his promises.
Would you disagree that the CIA thing wreaked of inexperience and opens himself up for ridicule that he is indeed
over his head in the position he's about to take on, not only in how he went about his choice but his actual
pick..a man with absolutely zero experience in the field of intelligence ???
Quote
I'm certain you're smart enough to realise that Obama (or any other president) cannot please everyone in his party all of the time.
Are you kidding me... after all thats been said here and reported in the media over the last 12 months ???there was nothing at all he was
going to be unable to do once he got in to office... should you not be Beep Beeping backing up like that :D this is Barrack Obama we're talking about here :o
QuotePersonally, I think these people (and I don't know if you count yourself among them) would be saying the same shit no matter who he appointed.
That's true and of course if the shoe was on the other foot..... there wouldn't be a word out of your good self or the other worshipers ;)
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/obamas-mother-in-law-to-move-into-the-white-house/
FFS what next..Air shocks and spinners on the Presidential Limo :D
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 02:14:29 AM
I'm not gloating at all J...simply astonished as to how you idolatries aren't up in arms with his about face on his promises.
Would you disagree that the CIA thing wreaked of inexperience and opens himself up for ridicule that he is indeed
over his head in the position he's about to take on, not only in how he went about his choice but his actual
pick..a man with absolutely zero experience in the field of intelligence ???
I was surprised with his CIA choice given his other appointments in foreign policy/national security, but get a grip with the in over his head shite! Give the man a chance - a lot of what irritates the right about this guy is that he has opposed torture and rendition and lots of the other stuff that has alienated the vast majority of the planet. Anyway, he is not going to be working in a vacuum - the rest of the appointments in these areas appear to be perfectly acceptable to both sides. He will also be surrounded by career intelligence professionals. And besides, it is ironic that the CIA director now becomes the symbol of the impending failure of the Obama administration when the right was fully supportive of Bush's actions to downgrade the agency's role and influence.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 02:14:29 AMQuote
I'm certain you're smart enough to realise that Obama (or any other president) cannot please everyone in his party all of the time.
Are you kidding me... after all thats been said here and reported in the media over the last 12 months ???there was nothing at all he was going to be unable to do once he got in to office... should you not be Beep Beeping backing up like that :D this is Barrack Obama we're talking about here :o
You heard nothing of the sort from me. The likes of Rush Limbaugh might have lampooned him in that manner, but I don't recall the media saying he would be a cure for everything either. You'll obviously correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 02:14:29 AMQuote
QuotePersonally, I think these people (and I don't know if you count yourself among them) would be saying the same shit no matter who he appointed.
That's true and of course if the shoe was on the other foot..... there wouldn't be a word out of your good self or the other worshipers ;)
If a Republican appointed experienced moderates as Obama, for the most part, has done, I certainly wouldn't be complaining that he wasn't fit for the job.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 02:19:32 AM
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/obamas-mother-in-law-to-move-into-the-white-house/
FFS what next..Air shocks and spinners on the Presidential Limo :D
What is wrong with a Grandmother helping out her grand children? She has been involved with the children since they were born. I would have given anything to know my grandparents but all were deceased when I was born except for my father's dad.
The Republicans preach family values ::) and here is one of the best examples I have seen in a long time.
Better to have the Granny there instead of some nanny or special aide civilian.
T.O. the last statement a little racists there :o
Ah the craics only starting lads...Bear with me, actually on second thoughts, I don't have time for this shite
just had a spare few minutes to ruffle some feathers..think it worked :P
I promise I'll only pop in to counter any hypocrisies that I happen to notice..
sure otherwise I'd be as bad and relentless as you lads 8)
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on January 11, 2009, 03:17:48 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 02:19:32 AM
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/obamas-mother-in-law-to-move-into-the-white-house/
FFS what next..Air shocks and spinners on the Presidential Limo :D
What is wrong with a Grandmother helping out her grand children? She has been involved with the children since they were born. I would have given anything to know my grandparents but all were deceased when I was born except for my father's dad.
The Republicans preach family values ::) and here is one of the best examples I have seen in a long time.
Better to have the Granny there instead of some nanny or special aide civilian.
T.O. the last statement a little racists there :o
Their family values bullshit is all about scaring the working class christians into voting for them. Who gives a f**k about healthcare or jobs heading south when there's sodomy going on in the bedroom down the street, there's black welfare mothers in Harlem driving huge cadillacs and them know-it-all science types are trying to teach our kids that monkeys are our kin!
And you're right, Obama's mother-in-law is a magnificent example to families everywhere.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 03:27:33 AM
Ah the craics only starting lads...Bear with me, actually on second thoughts, I don't have time for this shite
just had a spare few minutes to ruffle some feathers..think it worked :P
I promise I'll only pop in to counter any hypocrisies that I happen to notice..
sure otherwise I'd be as bad and relentless as you lads 8)
No problem T.O. ::)
We know after you went through the Rush Limbaugh boot camp you have to hold appearances.
Just need to know about the oxycontin "vitamins" that Rush endorses, do you have to buy bulk or a monthly lot. ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 02:19:32 AM
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/obamas-mother-in-law-to-move-into-the-white-house/
FFS what next..Air shocks and spinners on the Presidential Limo :D
I joked with my american based colleagues that they were considering building a Kentucky Fried Chicken next door to the White House. They took it in good jest as they themselves were joking about getting new tyre rims on the cars and installing boom boxes not to mention renaming the residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave to a different shade of paint.
Quote from: carribbear on January 11, 2009, 05:54:30 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 02:19:32 AM
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/obamas-mother-in-law-to-move-into-the-white-house/
FFS what next..Air shocks and spinners on the Presidential Limo :D
I joked with my american based colleagues that they were considering building a Kentucky Fried Chicken next door to the White House. They took it in good jest as they themselves were joking about getting new tyre rims on the cars and installing boom boxes not to mention renaming the residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave to a different shade of paint.
Don't forget the watermelon, the basketball hoop and the fire hydrant spraying water in the summer. ::)
I suppose it makes a change from the right wing outrage about the fact that Obama apparently eats arugula.
QuoteWe know after you went through the Rush Limbaugh boot camp you have to hold appearances.
Just need to know about the oxycontin "vitamins" that Rush endorses, do you have to buy bulk or a monthly lot. Wink
Poor old Rush gets a lot of mentioning around here, but then the fact that there are a few little stiffies around here for him tells me he's obviously
doing something right.... so do keep listening lads, who knows it might even bend the blinkers back a small bit ;D
And for the record, I don't listen to him at all but funny enough I never ask you boy's who it is you gather your worldly views from :D
By the way, how sweepingly ignorant is it that anyone who's not a Liberal must listen to Rush Limbaugh and take prescription drugs :o
That would be like me siding you boy's with Wards child porn charges or Air America's being accused of siphoning money from the boys and girls club in
NY to try to stay afloat...now that wouldn't be right would it ;)
QuoteDon't forget the watermelon, the basketball hoop and the fire hydrant spraying water in the summer. Roll Eyes
I suppose it makes a change from the right wing outrage about the fact that Obama apparently eats arugula.
Jaysus lighten up sir :'(.... in speaking of Rush, he may be able to offer you something to take that edge off ye..well according to DH anyway ;) :D
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 04:42:54 PM
QuoteDon't forget the watermelon, the basketball hoop and the fire hydrant spraying water in the summer. Roll Eyes
I suppose it makes a change from the right wing outrage about the fact that Obama apparently eats arugula.
Jaysus lighten up sir :'(.... in speaking of Rush, he may be able to offer you something to take that edge off ye..well according to DH anyway ;) :D
Cripes...someone from the thought police got offended. See when you tackle the stereotypes with colleagues of different colour and bring it out in the open you can actually laugh about it and try to bridge differences. Funnily enough they also mentioned the watermelon and basketball hoops too but the fire hydrant is a new one...
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 04:42:54 PM
QuoteDon't forget the watermelon, the basketball hoop and the fire hydrant spraying water in the summer. Roll Eyes
I suppose it makes a change from the right wing outrage about the fact that Obama apparently eats arugula.
Jaysus lighten up sir :'(.... in speaking of Rush, he may be able to offer you something to take that edge off ye..well according to DH anyway ;) :D
Nah, Rush already made his own contribution in popularizing "Barack the Magic Negro". How is your man who sent it around in his promotional cd getting on with his campaign for RNC chairman anyway?
Quote from: carribbear on January 11, 2009, 05:02:20 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 04:42:54 PM
QuoteDon't forget the watermelon, the basketball hoop and the fire hydrant spraying water in the summer. Roll Eyes
I suppose it makes a change from the right wing outrage about the fact that Obama apparently eats arugula.
Jaysus lighten up sir :'(.... in speaking of Rush, he may be able to offer you something to take that edge off ye..well according to DH anyway ;) :D
Cripes...someone from the thought police got offended. See when you tackle the stereotypes with colleagues of different colour and bring it out in the open you can actually laugh about it and try to bridge differences. Funnily enough they also mentioned the watermelon and basketball hoops too but the fire hydrant is a new one...
Each to his own I guess. Talking about the "black house" or KFC in that way just seems childish to me.
QuoteHow is your man who sent it around in his promotional cd getting on with his campaign for RNC chairman anyway?
What...Who... ???
I think you take this stuff a little to serious.. I wish the politicians that we break each others balls
over would take things on the way you do :-\
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 11, 2009, 08:58:46 PM
QuoteHow is your man who sent it around in his promotional cd getting on with his campaign for RNC chairman anyway?
What...Who... ???
I think you take this stuff a little to serious.. I wish the politicians that we break each others balls
over would take things on the way you do :-\
You didn't hear about that?
I can't remember his name (look it up if you're interested) - he is one of the boys who are running for chairman of the RNC at the moment, and he distributed a cd around the Republican party at Christmas with lots of songs (lampooning the Democrats obviously), one of which was a song that Limbaugh has been playing called "Barack the Magic Negro". Some of the Republicans downplayed it, saying everyone is too sensitive, others had a little sense and condemned it, realizing what an idiotic and offensive thing it was to do.
Edit: His name is Chip Saltsman.
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 05, 2008, 12:21:07 AM
I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck.. ::)
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama :o that most here have a hard on for :-[
T.O. is to Democrats what Tony F is to OWC!
A classic WUM, and to be fair he's pretty damn good at it.
I am looking forward to see the real Barrack Obama, community organizer extraordinaire with a 400million community to take care of now. I'm not going to mention hard ons...
Quote from: heganboy on January 11, 2009, 09:38:02 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 05, 2008, 12:21:07 AM
I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck.. ::)
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama :o that most here have a hard on for :-[
T.O. is to Democrats what Tony F is to OWC!
A classic WUM, and to be fair he's pretty damn good at it.
I am looking forward to see the real Barrack Obama, community organizer extraordinaire with a 400million community to take care of now. I'm not going to mention hard ons...
Shite..Me and
Big Tone in the same sentence, fcuk it I'll take it..I've worked hard for it ;)
The US and the World prepares.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7823265.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7823265.stm)
I feel the hand of history is on our shoulders...
My favourite part is the "Speed up" sign.
Seemed very thorough. Had everything but the sniper.
Quote from: heganboy on January 11, 2009, 09:38:02 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on October 05, 2008, 12:21:07 AM
I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck.. ::)
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama :o that most here have a hard on for :-[
T.O. is to Democrats what Tony F is to OWC!
A classic WUM, and to be fair he's pretty damn good at it.
I am looking forward to see the real Barrack Obama, community organizer extraordinaire with a 400million community to take care of now. I'm not going to mention hard ons...
I've long suspected that this poster has at least one other account on this board and has been around for a long time.
It's not often you're right Seanie..but you're wrong again ;)
And if you want my home ph # just ask for it :-*
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 12, 2009, 12:15:15 PM
I've long suspected that this poster has at least one other account on this board and has been around for a long time.
II think i'll give him the benefit of the doubt, those are some well honed skills he's got there- you don't get them without getting a lot of practice with new york democrats...
I'll Give you an hour to stop talking about me like that HB ;) :D
QuoteObama Hosting Pricey Party in Hard Times
The price tag for President-elect Barack Obama's inauguration gala is expected to break records, with some estimates reaching as high as $150 million.
Tut Tut.... and the country on it's knees :o
Change...some change alright ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 18, 2009, 03:43:48 PM
QuoteObama Hosting Pricey Party in Hard Times
The price tag for President-elect Barack Obama's inauguration gala is expected to break records, with some estimates reaching as high as $150 million.
Tut Tut.... and the country on it's knees :o Change...some change alright ::)
What do you care? You're not paying for it. While the DC security lockdown and the swearing-in ceremony are covered by the tax payer, all the rest of the bill is paid for privately. Should give the local economy a nice wee boost too at a difficult time. Isn't that what you would tell us if the shoe was on the other foot? That people spending money is good? ;)
How does the bill compare when inflation-adjusted, out of interest?
I think Tyrones own is a sore loser.
:)
Pete Seeger and Bruce Springsteen rehearsing This Land Is Your Land for the inaugural concert...
That should have the right wingers frothing at the mouth! :D ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFoFTQEC6ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFoFTQEC6ws)
Should be the National Anthem. Like the verses in this version. Good old Woody Guthrie.
here's a web applet that lets you turn your picture into an Obama Obey-style motivational Poster like this one:
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f290/Gama_Sennin/obamaobey.jpg)
http://obamiconme.pastemagazine.com/ (http://obamiconme.pastemagazine.com/)
I have to say i have become much less exciting about all this Obama messiah hype. It is all a bit sad millions spent on an inaguration and great rejoicing days after 300-400 children have been blown to pieces in Gaza. Obama spoke about this a few weeks ago and was very mealy mouthed... I suppose he has to kep the jewish lobby on board which begs the question, how much can he really do?
Well what is anyone else across the planet doing about it?
Of course Obama has to tread carefully - its a very divisive issue. And given that his policy over the past two months has been that there can only be one president at a time, even if he did have something very forceful to say about it, his stated position was that it wasn't his place to do so until Jan 20th.
QuoteHow does the bill compare when inflation-adjusted, out of interest?
What... the 40 milion that Bush spent verses Obamas 150 million..FFS :D
And remember Washington were up in arms over the 40 million 4 yrs ago,
Strangely not a peep out of them now, Hypocrisy of the highest order ::)
And by Jaysus theres going to be some work done on the 20th by all accounts :o
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 19, 2009, 12:37:12 AM
QuoteHow does the bill compare when inflation-adjusted, out of interest?
What... the 40 milion that Bush spent verses Obamas 150 million..FFS :D
And remember Washington were up in arms over the 40 million 4 yrs ago,
Strangely not a peep out of them now, Hypocrisy of the highest order ::)
And by Jaysus theres going to be some work done on the 20th by all accounts :o
2004 was the only other inauguration, was it?
And so each side is full of hypocrites, like we didn't know that. Poor, persecuted, republican victims.
Quote
2004 was the only other inauguration, was it?
No not at all but it was the most recent Where by the Democrats were beside themselves with the
How dare he, shite doesn't stink attitude towards W's
outrageous expenditure... yes 4 yrs ago
QuoteAnd so each side is full of hypocrites,
Has been my sole endeavor to have you boy's admit that rather than the
Hypocritical Hating that's been evident here!... Thank you :)
QuotePoor, persecuted, republican victims.
Oh FFS...Please, spare me the Petty, Bitter Sarcasm...Keep it real J, if your facts are in order it shouldn't be that difficult..
Quote
What do you care? You're not paying for it. While the DC security lockdown and the swearing-in ceremony are covered by the tax payer, all the rest of the bill is paid for privately.
Give me the link to where you found that cause the only figures I can find is that his Inaugurational committee has raised 41 million to date...
..I'm no mathematician J but something doesn't look right about that.. that's where i was going with the inflation piece :P
I see the worlds peacemaker Bono has got himself stuck into the festivities in washington.
Kinda makes you want to get ill when you see all these celebrities coming out of the woodwork professing their support for a political candidate.
In the current circumstances this money would be better spent elsewhere.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 19, 2009, 02:28:09 AM
Quote
2004 was the only other inauguration, was it?
No not at all but it was the most recent Where by the Democrats were beside themselves with the
How dare he, shite doesn't stink attitude towards W's outrageous expenditure... yes 4 yrs ago
QuoteAnd so each side is full of hypocrites,
Has been my sole endeavor to have you boy's admit that rather than the Hypocritical Hating that's been evident here!... Thank you :)
I recall saying that a number of times here myself. However, you never seem to stop with the indignation (feigned or otherwise) yourself.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 19, 2009, 02:28:09 AM
QuotePoor, persecuted, republican victims.
Oh FFS...Please, spare me the Petty, Bitter Sarcasm...Keep it real J, if your facts are in order it shouldn't be that difficult..
You're the one crying about hypocrisy.
The right wing never, ever stops complaining about getting a raw deal. They're worse than the unionists with their longing for victimhood, whether its christians or white males or the victims of the media whatever.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 19, 2009, 02:28:09 AM
Quote
What do you care? You're not paying for it. While the DC security lockdown and the swearing-in ceremony are covered by the tax payer, all the rest of the bill is paid for privately.
Give me the link to where you found that cause the only figures I can find is that his Inaugurational committee has raised 41 million to date...
..I'm no mathematician J but something doesn't look right about that.. that's where i was going with the inflation piece :P
Well allegedly (Media Matters) that Bush figure from four years back did not include the security costs, and given that 2 million people didn't show up to wish him well, it would hardly be surprising if the costs of security and so on to host all those people were a lot less, even if they were included.
Anyway, a bit of searching around will show that the taxpayer, through the congressional inauguration committee, local governments and the feds covers the ceremony and security, while Obama's presidential inauguration committee covers all the balls and the hoopla surrounding the ceremony and so on. Here's one...
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/16/news/economy/inauguration_costs/index.htm (http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/16/news/economy/inauguration_costs/index.htm)
QuotePete Seeger and Bruce Springsteen rehearsing This Land Is Your Land for the inaugural concert...
Great stuff J70 - always loved that song
Quoteyou never seem to stop with the indignation (feigned or otherwise) yourself.
If you want to label my calling you boy's at every opportunity on your biased Hypocrisy not to mention the blatent
unadulterated hating of anything that doesn't lean left as indignation...go ahead ::)
Quotevictims of the media whatever.
:D :o :D
Quotehttp://money.cnn.com/2009/01/16/news/economy/inauguration_costs/index.htm
Sorry.. didn't read much in that to convince me that spending that kind of tax payers money in this climate can be justified :-\
where are the whistle blowers ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 19, 2009, 03:35:41 PM
Quoteyou never seem to stop with the indignation (feigned or otherwise) yourself.
If you want to label my calling you boy's at every opportunity on your biased Hypocrisy not to mention the blatent
unadulterated hating of anything that doesn't lean left as indignation...go ahead ::)
No, I was talking about your complaining about and spinning every little thing about the Democrats and then crying foul when others here do the same with respect to the Republicans. And you seem to have a bit of hatred for anything that doesn't lean right yourself.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 19, 2009, 03:35:41 PM
Quotevictims of the media whatever.
:D :o :D
Yes, I think the idea that the republicans are more victimized in the media is laughable too.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 19, 2009, 03:35:41 PM
Quotehttp://money.cnn.com/2009/01/16/news/economy/inauguration_costs/index.htm
Sorry.. didn't read much in that to convince me that spending that kind of tax payers money in this climate can be justified :-\
where are the whistle blowers ::)
Well, go ahead and show us how the authorities would manage all those people without forking out. Do you think they should have all stayed at home? How much money are these people spending in Washington and its suburbs? Hotels have been sold out for months. You can't get a train or a bus down there this week either.
Quote
No, I was talking about your complaining about and spinning every little thing about the Democrats and then crying foul when others here do the same with respect to the Republicans.
Feck off that's my argument...the other way round of course, go get your own.
nice switch by the way but you'll have to get up a bit earlier than that 8)
QuoteAnd you seem to have a bit of hatred for anything that doesn't lean right yourself.
Not at all, I don't have a hateful bone in my body...No, you must be confusing my persisent correcting of your biased hatred
with your perception of somehow viewing me as being a hateful person :-\
QuoteHow much money are these people spending in Washington and its suburbs? Hotels have been sold out for months.
Try explaining that to some poor b**tard who's 60 days behind on his mortgage payment..fat lot of good that is to him or those like him
what they spend in Washington >:( no amount of spin will justify this so don't try :-[
You do seem a little more agitated than usual, did you lose out on a front row ticket yourself or something :P
or is it the fact that you're unable to get that train or bus out of NY ;D
(http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp280/stgilman/n502083242_1752427_9387.jpg)
Quote from: ziggysego on January 19, 2009, 05:22:39 PM
(http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp280/stgilman/n502083242_1752427_9387.jpg)
quality
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 19, 2009, 04:19:31 PM
Quote
No, I was talking about your complaining about and spinning every little thing about the Democrats and then crying foul when others here do the same with respect to the Republicans.
Feck off that's my argument...the other way round of course, go get your own.
nice switch by the way but you'll have to get up a bit earlier than that 8)
QuoteAnd you seem to have a bit of hatred for anything that doesn't lean right yourself.
Not at all, I don't have a hateful bone in my body...No, you must be confusing my persisent correcting of your biased hatred
with your perception of somehow viewing me as being a hateful person :-\
Why don't you go back and point out examples of my "biased hatred"?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 19, 2009, 04:19:31 PM
QuoteHow much money are these people spending in Washington and its suburbs? Hotels have been sold out for months.
Try explaining that to some poor b**tard who's 60 days behind on his mortgage payment..fat lot of good that is to him or those like him
what they spend in Washington >:( no amount of spin will justify this so don't try :-[
You do seem a little more agitated than usual, did you lose out on a front row ticket yourself or something :P
or is it the fact that you're unable to get that train or bus out of NY ;D
I'm open-minded and I can't defend the indefensible. Why don't you lay out your case for where the money is being wasted? Tell us how DC and the surrounding environs are supposed to handle the massive crowds that are descending on Washington at the moment.
I see Obama has had major problems picking his cabinet members, four have been and gone in less than 4 weeks. Just wonder what kind of press he is getting over there Puck et al? Is he still enjoing the honeymoon period or are people getting pissed off at his errors? Is this now showing a clear lack of experience or just plain old bad luck?
He's lost two men for the same post - the first nomination being forced to pull out to do a financial scandal. The second is a republican who said he cannto support OBamas stimulus package 100%.
The third was also not an Obama problem with the senator who he picked to serve as secretary of health and human services pulling out over a row about unpaid Taxes.
is the argument not though that he should have had better checks in place for his nominees? I agree its not his fault if someones resigns due to policy differences, but in the case of Daschle (I think), should he not have checked these things out?
'Tis ironic given that the week after the election lots of pundits were giving out about the excessive detail into which the transition team was going regarding vetting candidates and ruling out people because of lobbying ties! Obama certainly has not been well served by those charged with doing the background checking, but you'd have to wonder what the hell the likes of Daschle was thinking. Did he think it wouldn't come out? Personally, I think Geithner should have withdrawn as well, but I guess he got away with it because he was idealogically acceptable to both sides and that no one wanted to delay the nomination too much given that managing the current economic fiasco is partly his charge.
As to how it is playing over here, I think people are willing to give Obama time to see how it turns out. What will determine his success or failure in the public mind is not some arrogant big shots thinking they can get away without paying their taxes, but whether or not his policies improve America's current standing, at home and abroad. He's just about to pass the stimulus package, as he promised, so people can't say he's not making good on his promises policy-wise. The stimulus is far, far bigger news than the likes of Gregg, who you'd think would have some idea beforehand that Obama's policies might not be exactly in line with his own!
Quoteexcessive detail into which the transition team was going regarding vetting candidates and ruling out people because of lobbying ties!
Your joking J....right?
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 14, 2009, 01:26:23 AM
Quoteexcessive detail into which the transition team was going regarding vetting candidates and ruling out people because of lobbying ties!
Your joking J....right?
No, I'm not.
In fact I heard republican pundits just two or three weeks ago discussing how he was depriving himself of the choice of a lot of potential Washington talent, saying that no one else worried too much about lobbying ties in previous administrations.
And yes, I know that there have been one or two that have turned out to have ties related to their new briefs. My point was that he was getting criticized for choosing to rule such people out of consideration.
Simply bringing it to attention for those here that maybe don't watch as closely as you and I
that it's quite the turn from his campaign rhetoric regarding Lobbyist and the
same old Washington ways..bla...bla...bla... Not when I'm elected president, I'm all for change ::)
I'll dig it up on you tube if you'd like, it was pretty convincing stuff... well, to some of us ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 14, 2009, 02:29:27 AM
Simply bringing it to attention for those here that maybe don't watch as closely as you and I
that it's quite the turn from his campaign rhetoric regarding Lobbyist and the
same old Washington ways..bla...bla...bla... Not when I'm elected president, I'm all for change ::)
I'll dig it up on you tube if you'd like, it was pretty convincing stuff... well, to some of us ;)
How many lobbyists has he nominated in violation of the criteria he set? There's the deputy defense secretary and one other I've read about. Who else?
Quote
How many lobbyists has he nominated in violation of the criteria he set? There's the deputy defense secretary and one other I've read about. Who else?
Does there really need to be anymore for him to be included in the long list of same old Washington way full of Shiite politicians...but as it turns
out he had his sights on quite a few more than the two you mention
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090128/pl_politico/18128 :o
And if I may.... what's with the fear mongering and out and out lies to get this
stimulus ::) package passed,
did you catch the blatant lie This week in Peoria... it's actually sad that some of you are still defending and being fooled by this fraud.
Maybe you'll recall that term Fear mongering was thrown around quite liberally For Dubya... but now suddenly it's a good thing ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 14, 2009, 04:24:03 PM
Quote
How many lobbyists has he nominated in violation of the criteria he set? There's the deputy defense secretary and one other I've read about. Who else?
Does there really need to be anymore for him to be included in the long list of same old Washington way full of Shiite politicians...but as it turns
out he had his sights on quite a few more than the two you mention
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090128/pl_politico/18128 :o
And if I may.... what's with the fear mongering and out and out lies to get this stimulus ::) package passed,
did you catch the blatant lie This week in Peoria... it's actually sad that some of you are still defending and being fooled by this fraud.
Maybe you'll recall that term Fear mongering was thrown around quite liberally For Dubya... but now suddenly it's a good thing ::)
Not particularly interested in getting into another endless back-and-forth with you on this TO - just don't have the time at the moment!
Given the nature of the game in DC I never expected a smooth, whiter-than-white process and so I'm not particularly shocked or disappointed when some exceptions slip through in the thousands of appointees. Frame every single thing in the worst possible way if you wish - personally, I am reasonably happy with things so far and will withhold judgement at least until he's been in office for a month or two. ::)
As for the "out and out lies", that Caterpillar boss has already backtracked saying that the stimulus and other such packages worldwide should increase demand for their products and thus allow him to increase the workforce again. Obama should still give the boot to whatever underlings set it up though - the damage is done. Those complaining about fear mongering were more than happy to join in the "unAmerican", "unpatriotic", "mushroom cloud", "swift-boat veterans for
truth" etc rhetoric a few years back. And given that GW Bush was so similarly passionate about injecting huge sums of money to slow down the crisis in the last months of his administration, maybe there is some very serious danger there that caused them both to feel that the federal government's intervention was of paramount importance.
Somebody..anybody.. ::) *shakes head*
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 03, 2009, 01:03:09 AM
Somebody..anybody.. ::) *shakes head*
just thought I'd check on what the deal was with having the VP who waged war in 2 countries, and wanted to try it on with a few more be the CEO of the biggest firm in what may have been called at one time by President Eisenhower "the military industrial complex"?
Saves you any bother with lobbying when your top guy is making all the calls, (and then telling the president what he's decided)
Somebody..anybody.. ::) *shakes head*
Ah no sorry for the confusion HB....I had moved on from the on................going, everyday empty rhetoric and going back on his promise of
lobbying with lobbyist', no, the shaking of my head for today is based purely on the billions of dollars in earmarks in the latest treasonous Bill
to cross his desk...you remember the line of bullshit, "There'll be no earmarks in my administration, I'm bringing sweeping change to Washington,
I'll go through line by line and cut out any or all earmarks and put a stop to excessive spending with my scalpel".... really? ::)
Add to that of course it being greeted with thunderous chest thumping and fist pumping from the good liberal sheep
Where are they you all now might I ask :-X ..no surprise there!
Reminds me of one of my many favorite quotes:
"A Liberal is a person whose interests aren't at stake at the moment "
Tis only a matter of time to even the hardened bleeding heart turns on him ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 03, 2009, 05:16:29 AM
Ah no sorry for the confusion HB....I had moved on from the on................going, everyday empty rhetoric and going back on his promise of
lobbying with lobbyist', no, the shaking of my head for today is based purely on the billions of dollars in earmarks in the latest treasonous Bill
to cross his desk...you remember the line of bullshit, "There'll be no earmarks in my administration, I'm bringing sweeping change to Washington,
I'll go through line by line and cut out any or all earmarks and put a stop to excessive spending with my scalpel".... really? ::)
Add to that of course it being greeted with thunderous chest thumping and fist pumping from the good liberal sheep
Where are they you all now might I ask :-X ..no surprise there!
Reminds me of one of my many favorite quotes:
"A Liberal is a person whose interests aren't at stake at the moment "
Tis only a matter of time to even the hardened bleeding heart turns on him ;)
I used to think Fox News was a kind of comedy channel with real life Podge's and Rodge's. But not any more.
QuoteI used to think Fox News was a kind of comedy channel with real life Podge's and Rodge's. But not any more.
Fair and Balanced......See, one by one you'll all eventually come around 8)
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 03, 2009, 02:19:35 PM
QuoteI used to think Fox News was a kind of comedy channel with real life Podge's and Rodge's. But not any more.
Fair and Balanced......See, one by one you'll all eventually come around 8)
Hi Rodge!
TO,
Quotebillions of dollars in earmarks in the latest treasonous Bill
to cross his desk
stimulus or budget issues your main worry?
again treasonous is pretty subjective... (ahem "Patriot act")
Though to be fair to you (and objective) on the stimulus there's a fair bit of pig meat in there, and some of the projects that look like they're getting funding are nothing short of mental.
What are you seeing as the really outstanding ones?
Quotestimulus or budget issues your main worry?
I'd have a problem with any part of a stimulus package that has no bearing whatsoever on creating jobs here in the US..that was the basic premise, right?
By the way how's that for Irony that his fleet of Helicopters aren't even being built in the US..anybody by chance have his speech on "American's duty to buy American" :o
-not holding banks accountable to actually lend the money allotted to them from said
stimulus package to release credit rather than
using it to buy each other out,
-Money being used to bail their Wall St. buddies out, then please welcome AIG.... it actually took me a while to figure out why they had such an
eager interest to bail those criminals at AIG out til I learned that it's them that insure the lions share of the pensions of the elected filth on Capitol hill
...yes, Demican and Republicrat alike.
Budget issues........ I'd worry that spending 8% more than last yr, more than twice that of inflation is not the way forward in these times unless of course
bigger Government is your thing... Thankfully it's not Obama's thing... sure he said so during his campaign ::)
QuoteWhat are you seeing as the really outstanding ones?
Any and all that do not produce revenue or at the very least a job to a documented American citizen, an earmark by definition is nothing more than
a bribe and so I don't care which side of the isle your on, how anyone can't stand up and see the misappropriation here for what it is, is beyond me :-\
Is the basic premise to create jobs or to boost the US economy?
buy american is protectionism at its worst- IMHO and will be detrimental to the american economy in the medium and long term
bailing AIG in the manner it was carried out was poor, should have been managed better (but hey that was W) though for all that it needed saved one way or another and not because of the DC pensions, but if you think it is difficult to get a loan now, it would have been impossible had AIG failed.
nothing involving the original TARP was smart, nor Fannie nor Freddie for that matter in fact the intervention contributed to the failure weeks later.
Public works and infrastructure as well as a body that can conduct an assessment of who deserves help with their mortgages should have been the focus of the bill.
Not sure about your citizen fixation, we actually need to relax the criteria for bringing specialists into the country, we are in a situation (as well as many others) where we are having to set up centers in other countries that we want to do in the US, because we cannot get the staff into the US to do the work, and its not cost related, even though we pay the staff less abroad, it costs us more because of legal, taxation and overhead.
QuoteIs the basic premise to create jobs or to boost the US economy?
They go hand in hand do they not, a strong workforce is the US economy!
QuoteNot sure about your citizen fixation,
I think being that you're in New York HB affords you that kind of thinking however here in California the term specialist
certainly wouldn't be a term I'd use for what's flooding in here.
Illegal immigration is without doubt the Gorilla in the room with funding shortages across the board
costing California an estimated 12 billion dollars a year...yet they hold meeting after meeting here in Sacramento
trying to figure out why we're carrying a 41 Billion dollar deficit.. ::) closing Schools, library's and hospitals seems
to be their answer as far as i can see >:(
QuoteWASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama on Tuesday selected Pittsburgh Steelers owner Dan Rooney to be U.S. ambassador to Ireland, turning to a lifelong Republican who provided the Democrat critical campaign support during the White House race.
The 76-year-old Rooney endorsed Obama over Hillary Rodham Clinton during Pennsylvania's contentious Democratic primary; Clinton won the contest last April. Rooney later campaigned for him in Steelers country in western Pennsylvania, and Obama went on to win the state last November.
In the 1970s, Rooney helped found the American Ireland Fund, an organization that has raised millions for advocacy of peace and education in Ireland. His legacy is reflected in a Steelers-themed bar in a disused linen mill in one of the roughest parts of northwest Belfast.
In announcing the nomination on St. Patrick's Day, Obama called Rooney "an unwavering supporter of Irish peace, culture and education."
Obama said in a statement that he has confidence that Rooney and Secretary of State Clinton "will ensure America's continued close and unique partnership with Ireland in the years ahead."
Rooney's father, Arthur J. Rooney, founded the Steelers in 1933. The son took over the presidency of the team in 1975 and is a Hall of Fame owner. His Steelers won the Super Bowl this year.
The "Rooney Rule," which requires any team with a head coaching vacancy to interview at least one minority candidate, was developed by an NFL committee Rooney chaired. Rooney has also participated in labor negotiations between the league and players.
Awfully quiet around here lads....it's not like there's nothing to discuss
Anyway...yet another tut tut moment from the Messiah
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/20/obama-apologizes-special-olympics-bowling-joke/
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 20, 2009, 06:34:47 PM
Awfully quiet around here lads....it's not like there's nothing to discuss
The election is over that's why
He's on Jay Leno's show tonight with those with Sky.
The new frontman is doing a good job telling lies to the american public.
Where have all these bailout trillions gone to? All I have seen so far is individuals feathering their own next and joe public being sent down the river.
I've watched some very interesting articles from Alex Jones in recent times (take a look at "the obama deception" if you really want to see whats going on)
http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/International_Forecaster_Weekly/Trillions_Have_Dissappeared_Into_The_Ether
^^^^
Oh my God are you fecking kidding me?
Quote from: heganboy on March 20, 2009, 08:23:51 PM
^^^^
Oh my God are you fecking kidding me?
I can't say I'd vouch for everything in there but it certainly is food for thought. I don't see too many rich folk on the breadline out of this bailout.
The money is being pumped back into banking systems. Do you know if the federal reserve has ever been audited on where the money goes?
One other thing I would like to throw out there is on the topic of green jobs/ecological conservation - who here thinks that carbon credits and carbon taxes are neccessary?
Mr Obama seems to think that job creation will stem from this topic.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 20, 2009, 07:29:14 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on March 20, 2009, 06:34:47 PM
Awfully quiet around here lads....it's not like there's nothing to discuss
The election is over that's why
::) *shakes head* Change the name of the thread then genius..... actually don't, I'll start one of my own 8)