The 2008 US Election thread

[Tyrones own]

I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck..
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama that most here have a hard on for

[Mentalman]

I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck..
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama that most here have a hard on for

What's this about TO?

[J70]

I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck..
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama that most here have a hard on for

I cannot stomach more than two minutes of Hannity and his "evenhandedness". I'll pass. But let them go back to trying to win the election on Ayres. McCain previously said that he wouldn't stoop to questioning Obama's patriotism, but if that is the best they can do under the circumstances they now find themselves in...

You never really answered a question about this a while back TO. If you were voting back home in Northern Ireland, would a prospective candidate's ties to Sinn Fein or the IRA, even if as tenuous as Obama's ties to terrorism through Ayres, cause you to not vote for them?

[Tyrones own]

But let them go back to trying to win the election on Ayres.

Like it's no big deal...am I hearing you right

You never really answered a question about this a while back TO. If you were voting back home in Northern Ireland, would a prospective candidate's ties to Sinn Fein or the IRA, even if as tenuous as Obama's ties to terrorism through Ayres, cause you to not vote for them?

I thought i answered it very clearly J, It was a silly question at the time and my answer remains
the same..........I'm not running for office in the British Parliament

[J70]

But let them go back to trying to win the election on Ayres.

Like it's no big deal...am I hearing you right

I do not see it as a big deal whatsoever. Working with Ayres, who was a big figure in education in Chicago politics, does not represent an endorsement of his former group's actions in bombing federal buildings or statues.

You never really answered a question about this a while back TO. If you were voting back home in Northern Ireland, would a prospective candidate's ties to Sinn Fein or the IRA, even if as tenuous as Obama's ties to terrorism through Ayres, cause you to not vote for them?

I thought i answered it very clearly J, It was a silly question at the time and my answer remains
the same..........I'm not running for office in the British Parliament

How is it silly? You're castigating people for voting for Obama because of he worked on various issues in Chicago with someone with a violent, terrorist past. Yet you will not answer a simple question on whether you would or would not vote for Sinn Fein or anyone who worked with figures formerly involved in terrorism in Northern Ireland. Whether you yourself are running for office in Britain is irrelevant. Its a simple question if you expect the rest of us to take your "terrorism" objection to Obama seriously.

[heganboy]

Reality check,

A lot of US companies (not saying they are right in what they do) only recruit from certain colleges, not just Ivy League like Harvard etc,
If you are not prepared to spend your money for education, you are not doing your kid a lot of favours.

All private (non state schools) cost 30k +, personally I think it is a racket, but back to my original point, just because you earn 250k in the US does not make you rich.

I have a few points, by recruit do you mean a) send people to their recruitment fair, b) or accept and employ applicants from? If a) then name 1 firm in the world that can send recruiters to every college in the US, and if you mean b) name one...

Next, if you earn 142k in the US you're in the top 5% of household incomes (US Census 2001), so to earn 250k puts you in a very comfortable position, however you're right earning 250k doesn't make you rich, it makes you well paid, what you do with your money is what makes you rich or otherwise. If you choose to pay 50 k a year to send your kid to harvard and you didn't use a 529 plan ( an American tax free savings plan that be started for a kid before they are born) or a CESA, well again that puts you in the well paid and not rich bracket (and rather unlikely to be).

If you're seriously complaining about earning 250k and having no money to spend I'll happily send you the name of 5/6 accountants who will pay for themselves within 10 minutes of you being in their office.



I'm not really a fan of either candidate, my ideal President would have been Mike Bloomberg running as an independent, but then he didn't need to raise a penny in contributions, has run the biggest city in the world, worked and made his (mini) fortune in banking and then made his (massive) fortune by starting an IT and Communications company. But then he's Jewish so that means rednecks and fundamentalists won't vote for him. The Republicans in picking McCain seem to have gone with the Democrats last election tactic- the least offensive gets the Nod. Ron Paul would have been interesting but just a wee bit too far out there. I was pleasantly surprised that Obama got the Dem nomination over Hilary, both of whom would have been two ridiculously bright candidates. Obama was raised mixed race by a single Mom and goes on to become president of the Harvard Law review, John McCain went to the Naval academy and despite (or because of) his father and grand father being 4 star generals in the Navy managed to graduate 894 out of 899 in his class.

As for those who trot out the Republican's can handle the economy better drivel http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_05/006282.php
And that debate finishes before it starts.

But then why would you bother to listen to the Republican ads and mantra this campaign? well to be fair they have both been full of crap http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_whoppers_of_2008.html however the McCain campaign has really taken it to new heights (or depths) http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1842030,00.html

In terms of who I'd prefer spending my taxes I think I'd prefer Obama in charge. In February of this year John mcCain said "the economy is not my strong suit" given the times we live in- Im not comfortable with that attitude.

As Chris Rock says of McCain, just cos he got caught doesn't make him a hero it makes him dumb enough to get caught. John McCain was held in a Korean Prisoner of war camp for 6 years from 67 to 73, and that left him with huge physical scarring- no-one ever seemed to discuss his mental health until recently and strangley those part of his heath records pertaining to his mental health were absent from the 140 page brief that journalists (non-medical ones only mind you) were allowed to peruse but not copy. Mc Cain has pubicly stated that he broke under torture and was suicidal.
Are you sure that this is the guy you want deciding where to send the worlds most powerful military? I know Mandela suffered terribly in captivity but trust me, John McCain is no Nelson Mandela

Still, I can't vote so it doesn't really count for shit, so lets look at who can: how many of those polled who sincerely believe that race is a big issue in this debate are likely to state that in a poll over the phone with someone they have never met? well less than 2 weeks ago 40% of white voters in an AP poll said that. If 40% are saying it, how many more do you think are praying to Jesus every night that the next president better be white (just like Jesus   ) In fact half of those polled who were democrats voting for McCain said it was because of race.

Can Obama win? maybe
Should Obama win? probably
Will the world and America be better off if Obama wins? Your call

In summary I should defer to the wisdom of my Grandfather "anyone who wants to run for political office should be barred from that position on those grounds alone"

Oh and one more point, being centrist politically in most parts of Europe does mean that you're perceived as a liberal lefty in the US. Excuse Tyrone's own, who is certainly not Irish american, but very definitely an Irishman in the States, and to be fair to him his views on the subject of American politics are in my experience an accurate reflection of the vast majority of Irish men and women living there.

HB

[Lecale2]

McCain/Palin have been advised to go negative & fight dirty. All the positive ads about McCain's war record and long service in the Senate have been pulled. The Palin speech linking Obama to terrorism is just the start. The whole campaign will now get very dirty. McCain has weak spots too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvesa49zSIM&NR=1

I'm convinced McCain will win and the 11/4 widely available is very appealling. Never underestimate the race factor.

[joemamas]

Reality check,

A lot of US companies (not saying they are right in what they do) only recruit from certain colleges, not just Ivy League like Harvard etc,
If you are not prepared to spend your money for education, you are not doing your kid a lot of favours.

All private (non state schools) cost 30k +, personally I think it is a racket, but back to my original point, just because you earn 250k in the US does not make you rich.

I have a few points, by recruit do you mean a) send people to their recruitment fair, b) or accept and employ applicants from? If a) then name 1 firm in the world that can send recruiters to every college in the US, and if you mean b) name one...

Next, if you earn 142k in the US you're in the top 5% of household incomes (US Census 2001), so to earn 250k puts you in a very comfortable position, however you're right earning 250k doesn't make you rich, it makes you well paid, what you do with your money is what makes you rich or otherwise. If you choose to pay 50 k a year to send your kid to harvard and you didn't use a 529 plan ( an American tax free savings plan that be started for a kid before they are born) or a CESA, well again that puts you in the well paid and not rich bracket (and rather unlikely to be).

If you're seriously complaining about earning 250k and having no money to spend I'll happily send you the name of 5/6 accountants who will pay for themselves within 10 minutes of you being in their office.


My last response to this post,

Fact, almost all private (non states schools) cost in excess of 30k , most by the time your finished with expenses end up at 40k+ after tax dollars.  stop using Harvard as an example . How abouth Fordham University in New York Or Manhattan College both 40k or thereabouts for college and room and board.

I am not complaining about people who make 250k , I used that number as Obama considers that to be the threshold for being rich. Please read my original point and stop putting words in my mouth, where did I mention about having no money to spend.

The second part of my point was if you increase the tax on employers , what generally happens, they hire less and make the current staff increase productivity. Obama policies appeal to his support base, but when you drill down they are many things that do not add up.

[tyssam5]

I see Governor Palin went after the community organizer's ties to Terrorism today, was wondering how long
till the gloves came off and some of the real issues came to light for those of you who only
hear what suits, of course the Obama campaign are dismissing it saying McCain only wants to divert
interest from the Crisis even though it's Obama himself that's directly tied to those responsible, some neck..
Hannity's America is running a 1 hr segment on said ties tomorrow night, i highly recommend some of ye here check it out
and yes I know it's Hannity but lets face it folks, there's some chance of any of the others stepping up to the plate
to bring out and show the real Barrack Obama that most here have a hard on for

Well now we know the GOP are desperate - absolutely disgraceful stuff!

[magpie seanie]

This shows desperation but I'm sure Obama is prepared for it. I don't think they can damage Obama enough though and they are showing themselves up as having nothing to offer only old ways and spite.

[Tyrones own]

absolutely disgraceful stuff!

The expert conveyor just keeps turning them out ...please do explain in detail exactly what is disgraceful about it? tell me you wouldn't be against the American public
being made aware of just exactly where Obama's long illustrious career in politics got off the ground and received it's funding at the beginning

This shows desperation but I'm sure Obama is prepared for it. I don't think they can damage Obama enough though and they are showing themselves up as having nothing to offer only old ways and spite.

Care to answer any of my questions Seanie before moving on to the next ill thought out show of ignorance

You're castigating people for voting for Obama because of he worked on various issues in Chicago with someone with a violent, terrorist past.

Yes and one who to date is completely unrepentant for his actions and remember, he along with his wonderful wife were quoted in 2001 as having
said "we didn't do enough and we'd do it over again" yes that was 2001... surely this blows the Obama being 8 yrs old excuse out of the water.
now can you honestly tell me with a straight face that this does not call Obama's judgement as to who he surrounds himself with in to play
In your own words J, if the shoe was on the other foot...it would have been a TKO months ago

[J70]

You're castigating people for voting for Obama because of he worked on various issues in Chicago with someone with a violent, terrorist past.

Yes and one who to date is completely unrepentant for his actions and remember, he along with his wonderful wife were quoted in 2001 as having
said "we didn't do enough and we'd do it over again" yes that was 2001... surely this blows the Obama being 8 yrs old excuse out of the water.
now can you honestly tell me with a straight face that this does not call Obama's judgement as to who he surrounds himself with in to play
In your own words J, if the shoe was on the other foot...it would have been a TKO months ago

Yet Ayers maintains that in that 2001 interview he was talking about opposition to the Vietnam War, not the bombs, when it came to not doing enough. But regardless, in terms of Obama's judgement, I think it was politically naive, as in its now a distraction coming back to bite him on the arse. Beyond that, I couldn't give a f**k about Ayers. He was a university professor who was very influential in Chicago education policy, so Obama worked with him. He didn't go around fomenting terrorism or setting off bombs with him.

But again, this terrorism link seems very important to you, so are you going to answer the question on Sinn Fein and NI politics or not? Would you, or would you not, vote for a Sinn Fein candidate or anyone in NI who had worked, in any capacity, with terrorists?

[Tyrones own]

Would you, or would you not, vote for a Sinn Fein candidate or anyone in NI who had worked, in any capacity, with terrorists?

No offense J but I won't be drawn into an ethics boxing match with regards to my political stance or beliefs In the North of Ireland
especially with a Free-stater it's apples and oranges sure even Hardstation pulled you up on it

In your own words J, if the shoe was on the other foot...it would have been a TKO months ago 

This is the one I really wanted you to touch on........

[J70]

Would you, or would you not, vote for a Sinn Fein candidate or anyone in NI who had worked, in any capacity, with terrorists?

No offense J but I won't be drawn into an ethics boxing match with regards to my political stance or beliefs In the North of Ireland
especially with a Free-stater it's apples and oranges sure even Hardstation pulled you up on it

Your choice, but it looks like double standards to me.

In your own words J, if the shoe was on the other foot...it would have been a TKO months ago 

This is the one I really wanted you to touch on........

Maybe, maybe not. It is not for lack of coverage that it hasn't resulted in Obama's failure though. Anyone who has paid the slightest bit of attention to this campaign knows about Ayers, Wright and so on, going all the way back to the spring when Clinton was driving it. We heard about little else for about three months going into the summer. O'Reilly grilled him on it in their interview last month. 

[J70]

How was Hannity's show BTW? I flicked over for a minute during a break in the premiership highlights, and it was the same tape of Rev Wright that had been played over and over throughout the spring? Any new and potentially devastating revelations?