The 2008 US Election thread

[Declan]

I still think I'll wake up and discover that the whole Sarah Palin thing was a comedy spoof. I cannot actually believe that she's real. Listened to it this morning and started laughing to myself when she went off on the soccer field monologue. Mention Fear,Fight and Freedom and it seems your guaranteed to appeal to "middle" america whatever that term means. Frightening stuff. Whatever my reservations about Obama I think that McCain/Palin would be an absolute disaster but then again we've had 8 years of GWB and that went so well so why bother changing!!!!!

[Tyrones own]

What piece of leglislation was this specifically?

Sure look it up, who knows you might actually educate yourself.
Australia definitely gained ground the day you landed, are there not enough
underlying problems down there for you to be concerned with without spouting
your ignorance for what's going on in America.......but then again its the boy's that
don't reside here that seem to be the experts and want to make names for yourselves
with your in-depth knowledge and expertize on this subject

[Declan]

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/7827/palinxy5.jpg

Sarah Palin's facebook page

[magpie seanie]

but then again its the boy's that don't reside here that seem to be the experts and want to make names for yourselves with your in-depth knowledge and expertize on this subject

My brother lives in the US and has done for a while now so I take an even keener interest than I did previously even though I had a considerable interest anyway. He's told me all about your type and why he avoids Irish Americans. Seem to me he is right. There's some ould doll in Chicago that has a (fairly popular) radio programme who drives a car with reg number "IRA 69" on it. You people need to grow up and move on.

And don't try to tell anyone to educate themselves again cos its getting a little annoying at this stage. Education is not a problem in this country thankfully.

[Tyrones own]

He's told me all about your type

Do you believe all your told... that's right you do how else could you explain
your strong opinion and vast knowledge of what goes on here.
And go on tell me, what exactly is "my type"

and why he avoids Irish Americans

I'm not an Irish American

Seem to me he is right.

About what exactly

There's some ould doll in Chicago that has a (fairly popular) radio programme who drives a car with reg number "IRA 69"

What in under a Fcuk has this to do with me *shakes head*

You people need to grow up and move on.

Who Me? because some ould doll 2 thousand mile from me Has an IRA number plate
and you say there's nothing wrong with the education system back there.....really

Look lads the only reason you all have your pig tails in a twist this morning is simply because
a huge part of the 70 odd million people only tuned in to see her collapse and fail under the pressure
of the media and Big Joe Biden.......Didn't happen and you just can't stand it, admit it i dare ye

[Mentalman]

Watched the VP debate. Frightening stuff indeed. Biden didn't exactly impress me, but it is scary that some one with so little experience or understanding of the world, like Palin, could be one stroke away from having their hands on the levers of power. What was even more frightening was listening the lunchtime show on Newstalk later, and an American (not sure who) claiming becuase Palin had debated with Biden she proved she was up to doing the Vice-Presidents job? They obviously don't expect much from their VPs, walking and chewing gum at the same time being a bonus. I know people have mentioned that Dan Quayle was no better, and I would agree with that, but I have to say on the balance of probabilities if McCain is elected president he is unlikely to complete his term. For that reason alone I would be concerned about McCain winning...if liberalism is indeed a mental disorder, creationism is an aneurysm.

[Tyrones own]

but it is scary that some one with so little experience

Let me see if I have this straight, Govenor Palin simply hasn't the required experience
to run for Vice President but Barack Obama in your eyes does have the required
experience to become president
If all of ye are going to gang up and bully me like we're on the school playground then while you're
all together please explain to me collectively what on earth he has accomplished to warrant such worthyness
One or two issues will suffice lads, I won't go too hard on ye..............

[Mentalman]

but it is scary that some one with so little experience

Let me see if I have this straight, Govenor Palin simply hasn't the required experience
to run for Vice President but Barack Obama in your eyes does have the required
experience to become president
If all of ye are going to gang up and bully me like we're on the school playground then while you're
all together please explain to me collectively what on earth he has accomplished to warrant such worthyness
One or two issues will suffice lads, I won't go too hard on ye..............

I'm no Obama fan either but at least he doesn't believe the world is only 6000 years old. Amn that is real flat earth stuff, she would be at home with some of the loons in the DUP.

[J70]

but it is scary that some one with so little experience

Let me see if I have this straight, Govenor Palin simply hasn't the required experience
to run for Vice President but Barack Obama in your eyes does have the required
experience to become president
If all of ye are going to gang up and bully me like we're on the school playground then while you're
all together please explain to me collectively what on earth he has accomplished to warrant such worthyness
One or two issues will suffice lads, I won't go too hard on ye..............

First, I don't see the VP v president distinction as significant in terms of experience, especially this time around. The VP has to be prepared to step in at any moment, which in McCain's case, more than usual, may happen at some point.

As for the worthiness displayed so far, Palin is the one who, until last night, had been gibbering like an idiot for the past couple of weeks on all kinds of issues. Obama has been speaking intelligently on these issues for the virtually two years he's been running. You can disagree with his interpretations and potential policy choices, but he is unquestionably well informed. Palin's disadvantage is obviously due, at least to some degree, to her late entry into the race, and hopefully, assuming she's elected, she will overcome that. Obviously her modest amount of actual executive experience bests Obama's, but I don't see it as being enough to make a dent in Obama's position as the more impressive candidate, in my opinion. However, even if she hands-down beat Obama on all fronts when it came to experience, the woman just alienates me.

Leaving political leanings aside, whether being intelligent and in command of the issues is enough for Obama to start into a presidential term is obviously a valid question. We were assured in 2000 that Bush's disinterest and inexperience in foreign affairs and other sections of government wouldn't matter too much as he would appoint strong people to advise him and head up the various sections of the executive branch. I see no reason why that standard shouldn't apply to Obama as well in terms of appointing serious people to assist him. I would hope that he would take departments and agencies like FEMA a bit more seriously than Bush did in this regard though. I don't know which presidential leadership style is the best - some, like Reagan and GW Bush, seemed to prefer setting out the broad goals and letting their people get on with the details, while people like Clinton and Lincoln liked to get involved in the minutiae of policy and strategy. Both forms have met with success and failure and it obviously depends on the people involved and the circumstances they find themselves in. The greatest presidents tend to coincide with the greatest crises or changes.

Anyway, the most inexperienced and "unqualified" presidential candidate in US history was another Illinois lawyer with a gift for oratory as well, but Lincoln turned out to be arguably (definitely in my opinion) the greatest president, if not the greatest American, in US history. Obviously Lincoln's life guarantees nothing whatsoever in relation to Obama, but it does illustrate that the experience issue is not the be-all and end-all. Lincoln's predecessor, James Buchanan, had the most impressive CV of any presidential candidate ever, and he is consistently ranked as the worst or second-worst president ever (him and Harding generally share the two bottom spots). More recently, candidates like LBJ, Nixon and Bush senior had highly impressive CVs as well, but their administrations had very mixed fortunes.

The bottom line is that I personally have no worries that Obama will go in on Day 1 and find himself out of his depth. He just seems like a highly intelligent and capable guy to me, and I agree with him on more of the issues that matter most to me than I do with the McCain ticket, which is the most important factor in my choice.

[joemamas]

.

The bottom line is that I personally have no worries that Obama will go in on Day 1 and find himself out of his depth. He just seems like a highly intelligent and capable guy to me, and I agree with him on more of the issues that matter most to me than I do with the McCain ticket, which is the most important factor in my choice.
[/quote]

Not sure, the U.S needs somebody coming into office with an agenda to raise taxes on the "rich" any household above $250,000. Not so rich if you have a few kids in college at 40-50k after tax dollars a pop, and live in an area where real estate taxes are north of 15k. do the math.

That bracket for the most part are also the group (aside from the government) that hire the most workers. Reality check; make payroll taxes higher = less people employed, if he gets elected God help successful people.

I have nothing against him personally, but his policies in this environment would be a disaster.

[J70]

.

The bottom line is that I personally have no worries that Obama will go in on Day 1 and find himself out of his depth. He just seems like a highly intelligent and capable guy to me, and I agree with him on more of the issues that matter most to me than I do with the McCain ticket, which is the most important factor in my choice.

Not sure, the U.S needs somebody coming into office with an agenda to raise taxes on the "rich" any household above $250,000. Not so rich if you have a few kids in college at 40-50k after tax dollars a pop, and live in an area where real estate taxes are north of 15k. do the math.

That bracket for the most part are also the group (aside from the government) that hire the most workers. Reality check; make payroll taxes higher = less people employed, if he gets elected God help successful people.

I have nothing against him personally, but his policies in this environment would be a disaster.

Whereas lowering taxes for the vast majority of people will increase spending power and support business. However, Obama did say in his O'Reilly interview last month that the tax raise for the top 5% would be subject to reconsideration should economic conditions not be favourable.

As for 50k college tuition, there are plenty of options in damn good universities that cost a whole lot less. Get your children to try going to public colleges in-state, and you will pay a small fraction of that. If you want your children to go to Harvard, then you have to pay the huge fees, but there is no reason a young person cannot get a high-quality college eduction for much, much less that the cost of Ivy League universities.

[Tyrones own]

 Fair decent post J most I'd agree with and some i do not, so do i take from it though
that he has in actuality accomplished nothing of note but in your opinion has everything to offer going forward,
the problem I have with that is that instead of focusing on his plans for the future of this country, he just can't help but
live in the past..... Bush this Bush that, I know none of you agree but he's actually not running against Bush and the public
are getting tired of the same old blame Bush rhetoric.
Time to move on unless of course his lack of real substance prohibits such a move.

[J70]

Fair decent post J most I'd agree with and some i do not, so do i take from it though
that he has in actuality accomplished nothing of note but in your opinion has everything to offer going forward,
the problem I have with that is that instead of focusing on his plans for the future of this country, he just can't help but
live in the past..... Bush this Bush that, I know none of you agree but he's actually not running against Bush and the public
are getting tired of the same old blame Bush rhetoric.
Time to move on unless of course his lack of real substance prohibits such a move.

But he's running against the Republican party as well as the individual John McCain. GW Bush, despite his obvious sidelining in the public mind over the past few weeks, is, at least in name for another three months, the leader of the party. Any presidential candidate would tie their opponent to the unpopular elements of their party, especially a president with such low ratings. They'd be idiots not to. But having said that, most of the references I have heard to Bush by the Obama campaign have been in the form of McCain's policies being a continuation of the policies of the Bush administration for the past eight years. That, if true in the case of a particular policy, is a perfectly valid argument to make, particularly if McCain is claiming to be a "maverick" and a departure from Bush. Similarly, there is nothing stopping (and I'm sure they are doing it) McCain and Palin using Pelosi and Reid to attack Obama.

[joemamas]

From J70Whereas lowering taxes for the vast majority of people will increase spending power and support business. However, Obama did say in his O'Reilly interview last month that the tax raise for the top 5% would be subject to reconsideration should economic conditions not be favourable.

As for 50k college tuition, there are plenty of options in damn good universities that cost a whole lot less. Get your children to try going to public colleges in-state, and you will pay a small fraction of that. If you want your children to go to Harvard, then you have to pay the huge fees, but there is no reason a young person cannot get a high-quality college eduction for much, much less that the cost of Ivy League universities.

J70

Reality check,

A lot of US companies (not saying they are right in what they do) only recruit from certain colleges, not just Ivy League like Harvard etc,
If you are not prepared to spend your money for education, you are not doing your kid a lot of favours.

All private (non state schools) cost 30k +, personally I think it is a racket, but back to my original point, just because you earn 250k in the US does not make you rich.

[J70]

J70

Reality check,

A lot of US companies (not saying they are right in what they do) only recruit from certain colleges, not just Ivy League like Harvard etc,
If you are not prepared to spend your money for education, you are not doing your kid a lot of favours.

All private (non state schools) cost 30k +, personally I think it is a racket, but back to my original point, just because you earn 250k in the US does not make you rich.

If you insist that your child has to be educated at one of those colleges, that is your choice. You can either pay for it or see them win scholarships. I'm saying that the vast majority of people don't go to those elite schools, yet still manage to build fine lives for themselves. The notion that your child will enter the world handicapped just because he had to attend a perfectly decent state university is bollocks, in my opinion. Yes, they might not get into the elite NY law firm or investment bank straight out of college, but so what? I've a sibling working as a doctor in a top US hospital, and her education took place in plain, unheralded UCD.

And yes, 250K doesn't necessarily make you stinking rich, but you're still far better off than the vast, vast majority of your fellow citizens.