The 2008 US Election thread

[magpie seanie]

Must be her brother in law the police chief she tried to have sacked as revenge for divorcing her sister

Good enough for him. God told me divorce was wrong.

[J70]

http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/

Not very scientific but worth a gawk at

Barack Obama       87.6% (309,252 votes)
John McCain    12.4% (43,942 votes)

[deiseach]

http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/

Not very scientific but worth a gawk at

Not at all scientific. But it made me chuckle.

[tyssam5]

Have you seen this site?  It seems to change a little bit every day.

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

Click on just about everything.  I found five things today behind the door.

Never shot a penguin before!

[J70]

Christ, I knew she was a creationist, but is she really that clueless about science and its history? To pick on Drosophila research, above all species! No doubt zebra fish and house mice will be next! And especially in light of this specific study, and her going on all the time about special needs children. But it will go down well with the anti-science, anti-intellectual evangelical base no doubt.

[DrinkingHarp]

I wondered how long till this came about.



Christian right intensifies attacks on Obama


  ... Terrorist strikes on four American cities. Russia rolling into Eastern Europe. Israel hit by a nuclear bomb. Gay marriage in every state. The end of the Boy Scouts.

All are plausible scenarios if Democrat Barack Obama is elected president, according to a new addition to the campaign conversation called "Letter from 2012 in Obama's America," produced by the conservative Christian group Focus on the Family Action.

The imagined look into the future is part of an escalation in rhetoric from Christian right activists who are trying to paint Obama in the worst possible terms as the campaign heads into the final stretch and polls show the Democrat ahead.

Although hard-edge attacks are common late in campaigns, the tenor of the strikes against Obama illustrate just how worried conservative Christian activists are about what should happen to their causes and influence if Democrats seize control of both Congress and the White House.

"It looks like, walks like, talks like and smells like desperation to me," said the Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell of Houston, an Obama supporter who backed President Bush in the past two elections. The Methodist pastor called the 2012 letter "false and ridiculous." He said it showed that some Christian conservative leaders fear that Obama's faith-based appeals to voters are working.

Like other political advocacy groups, Christian right groups often raise worries about an election's consequences to mobilize voters. In the early 1980s, for example, direct mail from the Moral Majority warned that Congress would turn a blind eye to "smut peddlers" dangling pornography to children.

"Everyone uses fear in the last part of a campaign, but evangelicals are especially theologically prone to those sorts of arguments," said Clyde Wilcox, a Georgetown University political scientist. "There's a long tradition of predicting doom and gloom."

But the tone this election year is sharper than usual and the volume has turned up as Nov. 4 nears.

Steve Strang, publisher of Charisma magazine, a Pentecostal publication, titled one of his recent weekly e-mails to readers, "Life As We Know It Will End If Obama is Elected."

Strang said gay rights and abortion rights would be strengthened in an Obama administration, taxes would rise and "people who hate Christianity will be emboldened to attack our freedoms."

Separately, a group called the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission has posted a series of videos on its site and on YouTube called "7 Reasons Barack Obama is not a Christian."

The commission accuses Obama of "subtle diabolical deceit" in saying he is Christian, while he believes that people can be saved through other faiths.

But among the strongest pieces this year is Focus on the Family Action's letter which has been posted on the group's Web site and making the e-mail rounds. Signed by "A Christian from 2012," it claims a series of events could logically happen based on the group's interpretation of Obama's record, Democratic Party positions, recent court rulings and other trends.

Among the claims:

• A 6-3 liberal majority Supreme Court that results in rulings like one making gay marriage the law of the land and another forcing the Boy Scouts to "hire homosexual scoutmasters and allow them to sleep in tents with young boys." (In the imagined scenario, The Boy Scouts choose to disband rather than obey).

• A series of domestic and international disasters based on Obama's "reluctance to send troops overseas." That includes terrorist attacks on U.S. soil that kill hundreds, Russia occupying the Baltic states and Eastern European countries including Poland and the Czech Republic, and al-Qaida overwhelming Iraq.

• Nationalized health care with long lines for surgery and no access to hospitals for people over 80.

The goal was to "articulate the big picture," said Carrie Gordon Earll, senior director of public policy for Focus on the Family Action. "If it is a doomsday picture, then it's a realistic picture," she said.

Obama favors abortion rights and supports civil unions for same-sex couples, but says states should make their own decisions about marriage. He said he would intensify diplomatic pressure on Iran over its nuclear ambitions and add troops in Afghanistan.

On taxes, Obama has proposed an increase on the 5 percent of taxpayers who make more than $250,000 a year and advocates cuts for those who make less. His health care plan calls for the government to subsidize coverage for millions of Americans who otherwise couldn't afford it.

One of the clear targets of this latest conservative Christian push against the Democrat is younger evangelicals who might be considering him. The letter posits that young evangelicals provide the margin that let Obama defeat John McCain. But Margaret Feinberg, a Denver-area evangelical author, predicted failure.

"Young evangelicals are tired — like most people at this point in the election — and rhetoric which is fear-based, strong-arms the listener, and states opinion as fact will only polarize rather than further the informed, balanced discussion that younger voters are hungry for," she said.

In an interview, Strang said there are fewer state ballot measures to motivate conservative voters this election year and that the financial meltdown is distracting some voters from the abortion issue. But he said a last-minute push by conservative Christians in 2004 was key to Bush's re-election and predicted they could play the same role in 2008.

Kim Conger, a political scientist at Iowa State University, said a late push for evangelical voters did help Bush in 2004, "but it is a very different thing than getting people excited about John McCain," even with Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice presidential pick.

Phil Burress, head of the Ohio-based Citizens for Community Values, said the dynamics were quite different in 2004, when conservative Christians spent some energy calling Democrat John Kerry a flip-flopper but were mostly motivated by enthusiasm for George W. Bush.

Now, there is less excitement about McCain than fear of an Obama presidency, Burress said.

"This reminds me of when I was a school kid, when I had to go out in the hall and bury my head in my hands because of the atom bomb," he said.

[ziggysego]

[J70]

I saw that on Bill Maher last night!

[ziggysego]

I saw that on Bill Maher last night!

Frick on a poopy stick! What about this then?

[ardal]

Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?

[J70]

Christ, I knew she was a creationist, but is she really that clueless about science and its history? To pick on Drosophila research, above all species! No doubt zebra fish and house mice will be next! And especially in light of this specific study, and her going on all the time about special needs children. But it will go down well with the anti-science, anti-intellectual evangelical base no doubt.

I've just re-read what I posted and realised that its perhaps a bit difficult for someone not from a scientific background to understand how appalling her statement was. As J70 states Drosophila melanogaster is a model species, research using this species is some of the most fundamental in the whole sphere of biological and medical science. For Palin to dismiss this research as some sort of silly fruit fly stuff is nothing short of scandalous. Its suggests this potential McCain/Palin administration are too ill informed and ignorant to understand such a fundamental aspect of science. This lack of respect to science from the Republican party, although nothing new really, is personally sickening.

I think the specific study was referring to a non-Drosophila species of fruit fly, albeit one, the olive fruit fly, that is a major, invasive, agricultural pest in the western US. But even to dismiss this research as a waste of money is shocking. However, her point was basically that money spent on fruit fly research is a waste of taxpayer money and this reveals an astounding lack of knowledge on the part of the McCain campaign.

[Puckoon]

Christ, I knew she was a creationist, but is she really that clueless about science and its history? To pick on Drosophila research, above all species! No doubt zebra fish and house mice will be next! And especially in light of this specific study, and her going on all the time about special needs children. But it will go down well with the anti-science, anti-intellectual evangelical base no doubt.

I've just re-read what I posted and realised that its perhaps a bit difficult for someone not from a scientific background to understand how appalling her statement was. As J70 states Drosophila melanogaster is a model species, research using this species is some of the most fundamental in the whole sphere of biological and medical science. For Palin to dismiss this research as some sort of silly fruit fly stuff is nothing short of scandalous. Its suggests this potential McCain/Palin administration are too ill informed and ignorant to understand such a fundamental aspect of science. This lack of respect to science from the Republican party, although nothing new really, is personally sickening.

I think the specific study was referring to a non-Drosophila species of fruit fly, albeit one, the olive fruit fly, that is a major, invasive, agricultural pest in the western US. But even to dismiss this research as a waste of money is shocking. However, her point was basically that money spent on fruit fly research is a waste of taxpayer money and this reveals an astounding lack of knowledge on the part of the McCain campaign.

This should be a huge self inflicted gun shot wound for any party - but will it really make one iota of difference in the voting stakes? A majority of the Guns, God and Gays (sorry to steal your line J70) republican voters would be in complete accord with her.

[DrinkingHarp]

Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?

Have not heard that at all.

His mother was a U.S. citizen hence he is a U.S. citizen.

[J70]

Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?

This case (the Democrat Berg) was dismissed. There are a few others in the pipeline to get Obama removed from the ballot in certain states. A wingnut by the name of Andy Martin, showcased by Sean Hannity the other week in the "expose" Tyrone's Own was suggesting we all watch, has also sued the state of Hawaii to release the original birth cert. Basically, they're all claiming that Obama's mother couldn't get back to Hawaii, resulting in Obama actually being born in Kenya, thus stripping him of his natural born citizenship, and disqualifying him from serving as president. They all claim that the birth cert released to the website factcheck.org is a forgery and that Obama has in fact gone back to Hawaii to cover things up and not to see his dying grandmother. Its actually got to the point that Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage (I think TO likes him) are screaming conspiracy and fraud!

[J70]

Any truth behind this rumour? Heard that some democrat has demanded that Obama produce his birth cert to prove that he was actually born in the USA; if not he can't be president. Understand that there's a court appearance, or similar, in early Nov but after the election?

Have not heard that at all.

His mother was a U.S. citizen hence he is a U.S. citizen.

If he was born in Kenya, he can't be president.