The 2008 US Election thread

[ziggysego]

I'll probably still be in bed wide awake at time. Might as well watch. Which channel covers it best? RTE, BBC, ITV or Sky News?

[magpie seanie]

Plus his tax policies in relation to MNC's wouldn't appear to help us here

An easy mistake to make. Think it through though. His withdrawal of tax breaks from "companies who ship jobs overseas" will not have a major effect on us. It will hit Mexico, Costa Rica etc but US companies will always set up in Europe. They will always need a gateway into Europe and hey presto Ireland with its 12.5% CT rate wins if tax is the deciding factor. So when you put a little bit of thought into it then its only low cost manufacturing economies who have anythnig to fear from Obama's tax policies.

[Tyrones own]

You seem to have convinced yourself that anyone who supports Obama is little more than a sheep , and that any publications or websites that do likewise are unreliable rags. This may be the case in many instances but your extreme view that anyone who disagrees with your position is automatically an idiot is absurd and, not to mention, insulting. There are more effective ways of disagreeing with people.

The reason I have labeled the lot of ye sheep is because I've asked what on earth he has done to earn the right
to the love fest and besides the glassy eyed stares all I hear is  Bush, Change, Hope etc etc.................. If I was able
to raise millions of dollars (a lot of it illegally), fund ACORN to get out the vote *ahem* fraud, at every chance mention
Bush this Bush that, Change..... Hope......and on and on...... would ye vote for me too
A fantastic campaign strategy no doubt and i could see how the brain washing took place but it just wasn't for me.


It really is that simple for me, simply no experience for the job, Biden's words not mine   too many gaps in his past that have not surfaced,
added to what has been unearthed the rampant media swooning and bias towards this election

Race plays no part in this for me but let me ask, are the huge percentage of Black people that are voting for him simply because he's black
racist in your opinion or is that term reserved for the white man for being seen to go against him

AFS, it's not lost on me that you neglected to mention the barrage of attention, assumptions, cynicism and insults that have been directed at me from
the school playground bully boys on here.

Any predictions for this week, just for the craic like?

Really don't think you boy's have much to be concerned about, besides Obama's advisors flawless campaign strategy I do think
it was McCains to lose and he single handedly did just that...well with a little help from Palin of course

[J70]

The reason I have labeled the lot of ye sheep is because I've asked what on earth he has done to earn the right
to the love fest and besides the glassy eyed stares all I hear is  Bush, Change, Hope etc etc.................. If I was able
to raise millions of dollars (a lot of it illegally), fund ACORN to get out the vote *ahem* fraud, at every chance mention
Bush this Bush that, Change..... Hope......and on and on...... would ye vote for me too
A fantastic campaign strategy no doubt and i could see how the brain washing took place but it just wasn't for me.

Brain-washing has nothing to do with it for me. I am simply voting for the lesser of two evils.

It really is that simple for me, simply no experience for the job, Biden's words not mine   too many gaps in his past that have not surfaced,
added to what has been unearthed the rampant media swooning and bias towards this election

What gaps are these? We've had Ayers, Khalidi, Wright, the birth cert, the illegal aunt, ACORN, Rezko and on and on. All of this stuff has been out there for months, except for the aunt, which came out in the last few days. McCain has wisely left the aunt to his proxies; the Khalidi thing (which was ridiculous to begin with) died a death when the half-million that McCain directed to his research group came out; the birth cert crowd, for better or worse, look like a bunch of tin foil hat conspiracy theorists and haven't been helped by Hannity's buddy Martin's past; people just don't seem to think Ayers is particularly relevant; ACORN's fraud has been tempered by counter-accusations of voter suppression and memories of the likes of Katherine Harris; Rezko probably has parallels with Keating, which is maybe why McCain has left it alone; Wright was all over the news non-stop for months back in the spring and summer.

The bottom line, fair or not, is that people are tired of the Republicans, and they want change, and all the negative campaigning and guilt-by-association and irrelevancies don't seem to be doing much to change that. There has hardly been a word about anything negative in McCain's past in the entire campaign, yet he is the one who looks like he is going to lose. Its nice to see that Rovian tactics and swift-boating have their limits.

Race plays no part in this for me but let me ask, are the huge percentage of Black people that are voting for him simply because he's black
racist in your opinion or is that term reserved for the white man for being seen to go against him

The vast majority of black people vote for the Democrats anyway. If blacks voted based on race, Alan Keyes' campaigns wouldn't have been the laughable failures they were, would they?

In addition, context means a lot. There is a huge difference between a prejudiced white person voting against Obama just because he is black, and black people being more enthused than normal about a candidate because his election would mark a huge step forward in the progress of a group that was the subject of institutional and cultural racism for such a large part of the history of the country. Its only 40 years since George Wallace ran and the southern Democrats deserted the party and joined the Republicans over civil rights. That said, any black person who would support Obama simply because McCain is white and he doesn't like white people would certainly be a racist - what evidence do you have that that is the case in this election?

Any predictions for this week, just for the craic like?

Really don't think you boy's have much to be concerned about, besides Obama's advisors flawless campaign strategy I do think
it was McCains to lose and he single handedly did just that...well with a little help from Palin of course

I really hope you're right!

[Tyrones own]

but surely McCain and Palin have had their own points that they've droned on about daily for the last few months too.

Oh Absolutely but my point was that the rhetoric is all Obama has been running on and IMO with very little of anything to back it up...

The reverse racism in the among the black electorate was well depicted in a clip from the Howard Stern show that was posted on the thread a few pages back.

Yes I got the email, how embarrassing was that? but yet on this board it's all about how scary America is because of the right wing conservative standpoint

[magickingdom]

but surely McCain and Palin have had their own points that they've droned on about daily for the last few months too.

Oh Absolutely but my point was that the rhetoric is all Obama has been running on and IMO with very little of anything to back it up...

thats my worry with obama, even after 2 years hes a bit of an unknown. thats why after 2 years there are still 14% undecided. as for the constant picking on palin in the liberal press saying she a dumb ass and stupid, if it were a democrat who was getting treated like that we'd have lectures about the dirty republican tricks campaign. palin aint the worst vp nomination

[Tyrones own]

thats my worry with obama, even after 2 years hes a bit of an unknown. thats why after 2 years there are still 14% undecided. as for the constant picking on palin in the liberal press saying she a dumb ass and stupid, if it were a democrat who was getting treated like that we'd have lectures about the dirty republican tricks campaign. palin aint the worst vp nomination

Absolutely!

[J70]

but surely McCain and Palin have had their own points that they've droned on about daily for the last few months too.

Oh Absolutely but my point was that the rhetoric is all Obama has been running on and IMO with very little of anything to back it up...

thats my worry with obama, even after 2 years hes a bit of an unknown. thats why after 2 years there are still 14% undecided. as for the constant picking on palin in the liberal press saying she a dumb ass and stupid, if it were a democrat who was getting treated like that we'd have lectures about the dirty republican tricks campaign. palin aint the worst vp nomination

Palin basically dared the press to go after her in her convention speech. That she ended up looking like a moron was not their fault - she's the one who babbled incoherently about issues from Alaska, Russia and foreign policy to the domestic bailout, couldn't name a single supreme court case she disagreed with apart from Roe v Wade, and generally looked like a student who hadn't done a tap of work all year except for a night's cramming before an exam. I don't think she is dumb at all, but she comes across as incredibly arrogant and smug, and I find the "small town America is real America" bullshit nauseating (and this is from someone who grew up in rural Donegal!). Nobody is putting these words in her mouth. What exactly do you object to in her treatment?

As for Obama, yes, it remains to be seen how he will cope with the pressures of the job, with all of its responsibilities and decision-making, but the same is true for McCain. His policies have been well formulated for anyone who has bothered their ass to pay attention.

[Tyrones own]

Brain-washing has nothing to do with it for me. I am simply voting for the lesser of two evils.

How unfortunate is it that we both find ourselves in the exact same predicament, Heaven forbid the country could ever offer up a
candidate that some of us would actually want to vote for.

What gaps are these?

You mentioned his birth cert, why won't he produce his Birth cert though, why won't he release his health records, why is there a good chunk of his
college yrs missing, it's like he didn't exist almost! how is that possible and more to
the point....why

Wright was all over the news non-stop for months back in the spring and summer.

In deed he was however Obama aided by the media was allowed to sidestep the whole issue by implying
that he was simply unaware of Wrights Anti American views.... for 17 years now tell me you can see my
reasoning for thinking that it simply doesn't cut it
The latest of course being that he was unaware of his Aunt's immigration status.. is he aware he's breathing
I wonder.

There has hardly been a word about anything negative in McCain's past in the entire campaign,

Bar that he voted with Bush 90% of the time
Must research to see how many times Obama has voted along with Pelosi and Reid in the last two yrs and I don't think I need to remind
you that their approval rating is much worse than Bush ever was

the progress of a group that was the subject of institutional and cultural racism for such a large part of the history of the country.

And let it be known of the direct involvement the Democratic party played in the early days of slavery and who it took to come along and
lay the ground work to drive it out of our society, a history lesson wouldn't go a miss with most of them

[magpie seanie]

His policies have been well formulated for anyone who has bothered their ass to pay attention.

Nail on the head.

I see there are more fairytales being presented by Tyrones Own. If you twist words and speak in half truths you can argue almost anythnig. Fairness and judgement comes in to what a leader should be though. And ability counts too. Being a good ole boy or a hockey mom may get votes but it means diddly squat in terms of being able to run one of the most powerful countries in the world.

[Tyrones own]

I see there are more fairytales being presented by Tyrones Own. If you twist words and speak in half truths you can argue almost anythnig. Fairness and judgement  comes in to what a leader should be though. And ability counts too. Being a good ole boy or a hockey mom may get votes but it means diddly squat in terms of being able to run one of the most powerful countries in the world.

Fairness and Judgement......baa baa

Ok, I'll give you a chance to Redeem yourself from your last little eh... episode   ..please do explain

[J70]

What gaps are these?

You mentioned his birth cert, why won't he produce his Birth cert though, why won't he release his health records, why is there a good chunk of his
college yrs missing, it's like he didn't exist almost! how is that possible and more to
the point....why

Maybe I have a little more faith in the process than you, but I find it hard to believe that he got a job in the US senate and became an official presidential candidate without producing his birth cert somewhere.

As to his college years, what, and how many years are apparently missing?

I have no idea about the health records. He looks pretty healthy to me. What do you think he is hiding? Maybe he's a muslim after all!

Wright was all over the news non-stop for months back in the spring and summer.

In deed he was however Obama aided by the media was allowed to sidestep the whole issue by implying
that he was simply unaware of Wrights Anti American views.... for 17 years now tell me you can see my
reasoning for thinking that it simply doesn't cut it

He answered O'Reilly, of all people, on Wright. If you don't like his answer, that is a different issue. I've heard plenty of shite in churches myself over the years. If Obama is held responsible for some of what he sat through in churches, maybe some of the christian right politicians should have to stand over what their pastors preach on controversial issues (I think Wright is perfectly entitled to his anger at America by the way).

The latest of course being that he was unaware of his Aunt's immigration status.. is he aware he's breathing
I wonder.

I don't know about Obama, but I have relatives in the states and I honestly have no idea about whether they are legal or not. Its not an issue that comes up that much.

There has hardly been a word about anything negative in McCain's past in the entire campaign,

Bar that he voted with Bush 90% of the time
Must research to see how many times Obama has voted along with Pelosi and Reid in the last two yrs and I don't think I need to remind
you that their approval rating is much worse than Bush ever was

Policy is different. What I mean is that if Rove was running against McCain, you'd be seeing all kinds of ads about Keating and McCain using his connections to advance in the navy and get him out of the numerous scrapes he got into in his early years. You'd be hearing about him getting married a couple of weeks after his divorce, having played around on his disabled wife for years. Obama has not touched any of this stuff, except for a one-day retalitory ad a few weeks back after the McCain campaign changed course again and said they were going to get nasty.

the progress of a group that was the subject of institutional and cultural racism for such a large part of the history of the country.

And let it be known of the direct involvement the Democratic party played in the early days of slavery and who it took to come along and
lay the ground work to drive it out of our society, a history lesson wouldn't go a miss with most of them

Of course. I, and many, many Democrats, consider Lincoln the greatest ever president. That does not take away from the fact that LBJ's prediction that he was going to lose the south for the Democrats by signing the civil rights acts turned out to be true. Boys like Strom Thurmond, who split from Truman in '48 and ran as a segregationist, and later the likes of Jesse Helms, found a comfortable home in the Republican party after LBJ's "treachery".

[J70]

I would add one more point, relevant to the anti-American charges against Wright and the media's supposed bias against Palin: why hasn't Palin's husband's membership of the secessionist Alaska Independence party, or the governor herself's praising of their work and addressing of their convention, received more coverage?

[magpie seanie]

I see there are more fairytales being presented by Tyrones Own. If you twist words and speak in half truths you can argue almost anythnig. Fairness and judgement  comes in to what a leader should be though. And ability counts too. Being a good ole boy or a hockey mom may get votes but it means diddly squat in terms of being able to run one of the most powerful countries in the world.

Fairness and Judgement......baa baa

Ok, I'll give you a chance to Redeem yourself from your last little eh... episode   ..please do explain

Its pretty clear to most people.

I'll give you one example of a "fairytale" you presented. You said Obama said he was "unaware" of Rev Wrights "anti American views". That is simply untrue and I quote Obama's speech of March 18th this year to prove that you are twisting things for your own ends:

"I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed."

So nothing about being "unaware" there buddy.

[Canalman]

Imo McCain has done extraordinarily well to be in with a fighting chance (albeit a small one according to the polls) given the recent economic turmoil in the US. It is the economy and the resulting anti-Republican backlash that will beat him and not imo Sarah Palin's performance as running mate, despite what the "pundits" say.

This election is eerily similiar to the 1976 election when Carter "snuck" in on an anti Watergate tide, and narrowly enough at that. Obama if elected will (given all he has promised) be a letdown and imo a "one termer". This election as will all subsequent elections hinge on the rising hispanic vote.