Putin has repeatedly denied that Russia will invade despite the obvious evidence of warmongering and army deployments. I'm bending towards the worth of that promise. I very much doubt that he would go back on such a public promise. And it's unlikely considering Russia's expressed concern over the issue, that Ukraine will join with Nato.
Should Russia invade, what's likely to happen? Will they breeze past Ukrainian troops (through sheer numbers) or would they face a tough n well organised army?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 12, 2022, 10:41:59 PM
Should Russia invade, what's likely to happen? Will they breeze past Ukrainian troops (through sheer numbers) or would they face a tough n well organised army?
They'd be in Paris by Easter.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 12, 2022, 11:28:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 12, 2022, 10:41:59 PM
Should Russia invade, what's likely to happen? Will they breeze past Ukrainian troops (through sheer numbers) or would they face a tough n well organised army?
They'd be in Paris by Easter.
Said it before a few hundred people with limited weapons caused mayhem for 30 yrs here. Ukraine has 40 million people and is armed to the teeth. Any quick Russian victory is going to seem very hollow with time
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 13, 2022, 12:47:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 12, 2022, 11:28:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 12, 2022, 10:41:59 PM
Should Russia invade, what's likely to happen? Will they breeze past Ukrainian troops (through sheer numbers) or would they face a tough n well organised army?
They'd be in Paris by Easter.
Said it before a few hundred people with limited weapons caused mayhem for 30 yrs here. Ukraine has 40 million people and is armed to the teeth. Any quick Russian victory is going to seem very hollow with time
Even if the invasion completed its initial mission there would be ongoing attacks for years. They aren't a type to capitulate.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 13, 2022, 12:47:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 12, 2022, 11:28:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 12, 2022, 10:41:59 PM
Should Russia invade, what's likely to happen? Will they breeze past Ukrainian troops (through sheer numbers) or would they face a tough n well organised army?
They'd be in Paris by Easter.
Said it before a few hundred people with limited weapons caused mayhem for 30 yrs here. Ukraine has 40 million people and is armed to the teeth. Any quick Russian victory is going to seem very hollow with time
It isn't clear that the Russians would occupy the whole country. They would occupy the East and the coast, but they might just leave it at that and have a sort of Vichy regime elsewhere. The western part of the Ukraine would not be very welcoming and likely supplied with munitions. There was a crowd called the UPA who fought in western Ukraine from the war until 1950 or so, spending their time massacring Polish people and Soviet officials. I don't know what public opinion in Russia nowadays would think of Stalinist methods to control Ukraine.
The Russians aren't naive enough to think a prolonged occupation of Ukraine would be in their interest. They've the superior Air Force and drone force so a complete military victory is simply a matter of time. 4 weeks max, after that the Russians will retreat and occupy the main strategic points, likely the ports from which the bulk of Ukrainian grain is transported and is of key economic interest. They'll choke Ukrainian oil and gas exports at the key points too.
The point is not to win friends with the Ukrainians. The point is to show that western promises are empty and their promised interventions will mean little. As Roosevelt said "when you have them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow." The strategy is to show that the west is all talk and no action and the only country of strength in Eastern Europe is Russia.
With regards to a prolonged insurgency it should be remembered Russia has successfully quelled a Islamic insurgency in Chechnya.
Quote from: trileacman on February 13, 2022, 09:58:04 PM
The Russians aren't naive enough to think a prolonged occupation of Ukraine would be in their interest. They've the superior Air Force and drone force so a complete military victory is simply a matter of time. 4 weeks max, after that the Russians will retreat and occupy the main strategic points, likely the ports from which the bulk of Ukrainian grain is transported and is of key economic interest. They'll choke Ukrainian oil and gas exports at the key points too.
The point is not to win friends with the Ukrainians. The point is to show that western promises are empty and their promised interventions will mean little. As Roosevelt said "when you have them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow." The strategy is to show that the west is all talk and no action and the only country of strength in Eastern Europe is Russia.
With regards to a prolonged insurgency it should be remembered Russia has successfully quelled a Islamic insurgency in Chechnya.
Succesful but at a cost. 20000 odd soldiers not to mention the rather grim episodes at the school and opera House on Russian soil.
Yes bit the Ukraine has 30 times the population of Chechnya
Putin if he does give the order is taking a big risk. He is basing his decision on the fact that Ukraine and the EU are weak if he gets it wrong he could lose Crimea or even be
replaced
Ukraine is a bit like rhe North in terms of population split. A superior army doesn't always work in an occupation scenario .
Surrogacy must be a sizeable business in Ukraine. It's poor and has loads of women who need the money.
https://mobile.twitter.com/HMcEntee/status/1492810367894007809
Helen McEntee TD@HMcEntee·21hIf you are in Ukraine, please follow @dfatirl advice and leave immediately. Please don't travel to Ukraine, anyone who was due to travel for surrogacy reasons, please stay in contact with @dfatirl
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 12, 2022, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
Don't tell me, let me guess.
Were these the boardrooms of banks, perhaps working to some secret protocol written by their Elders?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/14/russia-ukraine-crisis-latest-putin-nato-war-refugees-diplomats/
Kremlin says Kyiv renouncing Nato membership would 'address' security concerns
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 12, 2022, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
I guess there IS no depth the white grievance brigade won't plumb in their quest for "real" victimhood these days.
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:00:17 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 12, 2022, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
I guess there IS no depth the white grievance brigade won't plumb in their quest for "real" victimhood these days.
But J70, you don't truly understand it.
Quote from: Main Street on February 15, 2022, 12:19:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:00:17 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 12, 2022, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
I guess there IS no depth the white grievance brigade won't plumb in their quest for "real" victimhood these days.
But J70, you don't truly understand it.
says the guy living in Monaghan ffs
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 12, 2022, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
Jez, thanks for clearing that up. There was me thinking Germany started the war by invading its neighbours and then set about murdering every jewish man woman and child they could get their hands on. My mistake, I will write them an apology immediately.
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2022, 01:30:55 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 15, 2022, 12:19:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:00:17 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 12, 2022, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
I guess there IS no depth the white grievance brigade won't plumb in their quest for "real" victimhood these days.
But J70, you don't truly understand it.
says the guy living in Monaghan ffs
Yet another erroneous 'understanding' ....ffs
albeit a common occurance among the "white grievance brigade" .
Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2022, 01:30:55 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 15, 2022, 12:19:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:00:17 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 12, 2022, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
I guess there IS no depth the white grievance brigade won't plumb in their quest for "real" victimhood these days.
But J70, you don't truly understand it.
says the guy living in Monaghan ffs
So you're jumping in to defend the "we owe the Germans an apology for the world wars, actually wars on Christianity" "position"?
Johnson and the US must be very disappointed that the Russions didn't invade Ukraine ::)
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 12, 2022, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
Imagine actually believing this
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2022, 12:39:35 PM
Johnson and the US must be very disappointed that the Russions didn't invade Ukraine ::)
The Sun even announced the time for the invasion, 1am this morning. Those damn Russians are unreliable
Biden is now declaring an invasion is imminent. I'm sure he has much better information than me, but it doesn't make sense for me that Russia will do it. Showing their muscle, yes. Invading a huge country like Ukraine, no. A messy in-between situation is a possibility.
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
Quote from: Sportacus on February 18, 2022, 11:42:44 PM
Biden is now declaring an invasion is imminent. I'm sure he has much better information than me, but it doesn't make sense for me that Russia will do it. Showing their muscle, yes. Invading a huge country like Ukraine, no. A messy in-between situation is a possibility.
Biden is just the same old same old isn't he.
Quote from: Sportacus on February 18, 2022, 11:42:44 PM
Biden is now declaring an invasion is imminent. I'm sure he has much better information than me, but it doesn't make sense for me that Russia will do it. Showing their muscle, yes. Invading a huge country like Ukraine, no. A messy in-between situation is a possibility.
Putin is not renowned for doing what makes sense IMHO
Quote from: trileacman on February 18, 2022, 11:53:48 PM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
I presume you were saying that during the winter of 2002/03 as well.
Funny, as in not funny, how many self proclaimed "anti-war" people of that era are now full blown Russian apologists.
I guess they weren't anti-war at all.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 19, 2022, 12:03:48 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 18, 2022, 11:42:44 PM
Biden is now declaring an invasion is imminent. I'm sure he has much better information than me, but it doesn't make sense for me that Russia will do it. Showing their muscle, yes. Invading a huge country like Ukraine, no. A messy in-between situation is a possibility.
Putin is not renowned for doing what makes sense IMHO
The one thing that has always made sense in Putin's head is the Russian jackboot. Nothing else has to make sense.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2022, 12:31:48 AM
Quote from: trileacman on February 18, 2022, 11:53:48 PM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
I presume you were saying that during the winter of 2002/03 as well.
Funny, as in not funny, how many self proclaimed "anti-war" people of that era are now full blown Russian apologists.
I guess they weren't anti-war at all.
So you agree with Biden and think a Russian invasion is imminent?
Quote from: trileacman on February 19, 2022, 02:02:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2022, 12:31:48 AM
Quote from: trileacman on February 18, 2022, 11:53:48 PM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
I presume you were saying that during the winter of 2002/03 as well.
Funny, as in not funny, how many self proclaimed "anti-war" people of that era are now full blown Russian apologists.
I guess they weren't anti-war at all.
So you agree with Biden and think a Russian invasion is imminent?
You tell me what it looks like.
Russia has 190 troops mounted on Ukraine's border.
Putin is talking nuclear war.
The DNR/LNR puppet leaders are saying they are at war.
Russian state media has fabricated a so called "genocide" against ethnic Russians. This is a Goebbels like lie.
Russia is staging false flag explosions in the DNR/LNR.
The DNR/LNR puppets are calling for civilians to leave. These statements were recorded not yesterday as they claimed, but on Wednesday.
What does all this look like to you?
Why the fook won't the criminal mafia regime of Russia just leave Ukraine alone?
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2022, 10:40:57 AM
Quote from: trileacman on February 19, 2022, 02:02:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2022, 12:31:48 AM
Quote from: trileacman on February 18, 2022, 11:53:48 PM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
I presume you were saying that during the winter of 2002/03 as well.
Funny, as in not funny, how many self proclaimed "anti-war" people of that era are now full blown Russian apologists.
I guess they weren't anti-war at all.
So you agree with Biden and think a Russian invasion is imminent?
You tell me what it looks like.
Russia has 190 troops mounted on Ukraine's border.
Putin is talking nuclear war.
The DNR/LNR puppet leaders are saying they are at war.
Russian state media has fabricated a so called "genocide" against ethnic Russians. This is a Goebbels like lie.
Russia is staging false flag explosions in the DNR/LNR.
The DNR/LNR puppets are calling for civilians to leave. These statements were recorded not yesterday as they claimed, but on Wednesday.
What does all this look like to you?
Why the fook won't the criminal mafia regime of Russia just leave Ukraine alone?
What hobbies do you have away from this board?
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 19, 2022, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2022, 10:40:57 AM
Quote from: trileacman on February 19, 2022, 02:02:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2022, 12:31:48 AM
Quote from: trileacman on February 18, 2022, 11:53:48 PM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
I presume you were saying that during the winter of 2002/03 as well.
Funny, as in not funny, how many self proclaimed "anti-war" people of that era are now full blown Russian apologists.
I guess they weren't anti-war at all.
So you agree with Biden and think a Russian invasion is imminent?
You tell me what it looks like.
Russia has 190 troops mounted on Ukraine's border.
Putin is talking nuclear war.
The DNR/LNR puppet leaders are saying they are at war.
Russian state media has fabricated a so called "genocide" against ethnic Russians. This is a Goebbels like lie.
Russia is staging false flag explosions in the DNR/LNR.
The DNR/LNR puppets are calling for civilians to leave. These statements were recorded not yesterday as they claimed, but on Wednesday.
What does all this look like to you?
Why the fook won't the criminal mafia regime of Russia just leave Ukraine alone?
What hobbies do you have away from this board?
You should take up posting here as a hobby. It might save you from spending all your time trolling here.
Putin recognizes the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk. That should heat things up a bit.
China should take the opportunity to just take over the eastern half of Russia. All the Russian army thousands of miles away at Ukraine border. China could do with the space and not many Russians there to defend it. see how putin would like that lol
It might be a good time for the Japanese to move some kit up towards the Kurile islands.
Or perhaps Georgia could reincorporate Abkhazia and South Ossetia while the Bear is shitting elsewhere.
Hard to know if Putin is a lunatic or genius when it comes to ambiguous speeches like this.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 08:35:58 PM
China should take the opportunity to just take over the eastern half of Russia. All the Russian army thousands of miles away at Ukraine border. China could do with the space and not many Russians there to defend it. see how putin would like that lol
https://www.ft.com/content/38984025-9f1b-492f-933d-57da44fcc160
the growing threat of war over Ukraine is accelerating a major realignment in geopolitics, pushing Moscow and Beijing into a closer embrace.
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2022, 09:17:17 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 08:35:58 PM
China should take the opportunity to just take over the eastern half of Russia. All the Russian army thousands of miles away at Ukraine border. China could do with the space and not many Russians there to defend it. see how putin would like that lol
https://www.ft.com/content/38984025-9f1b-492f-933d-57da44fcc160
the growing threat of war over Ukraine is accelerating a major realignment in geopolitics, pushing Moscow and Beijing into a closer embrace.
Still think China would go for it if the sniffed a Russian weakness
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
Boris will sort it! ;D
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
So, tell us all about your precious "Minsk Agreement".
Then tell me about Putin channelling Hitler.
Don't worry Kamala is on the case.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Quote from: ONeill on February 21, 2022, 08:53:36 PM
Hard to know if Putin is a lunatic or genius when it comes to ambiguous speeches like this.
I didn't find it ambiguous at all. Perhaps strange how he paints Europe in a very unthreatening light and lays pretty much all the blame at the USA door. It's telling he either truly perceives the US as the puppetmaster behind NATO or is deliberately using them to rile nationalist sentiment in Russia to the "old enemy". Repeatedly attacked the the US as oath breakers and references their capability to wipe out the Russian ballistic arsenal.
Really telling for me is the way he talked about Macron, viewing France as the middle guy between Russia and the US, part messenger boy/part peacemaker. I think he does truly believe Macron to be the only European leader with the political capital to talk to him. There's an obvious indifference to German diplomacy and open distain for the Brits. They truly only seem to entertain British representatives for the fun of embarrassing them.
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
Well Uncle Joe did say that a minor incursion was acceptable
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
Would the Abbey Centre be included?
This Ukraine craic is very messy because it's post Soviet Empire. A line on a map. NI is post British Empire. Left behind people.
Ukraine means borderlands. There is no natural border anyway
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2022, 03:32:12 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
Would the Abbey Centre be included?
This Ukraine craic is very messy because it's post Soviet Empire. A line on a map. NI is post British Empire. Left behind people.
Ukraine means borderlands. There is no natural border anyway
Wouldn't be any big loss.
Europe wasn't "on the brink of war" when Crimea was annexed. Can anyone explain what's different this time? If he rolls into Kyiev that's different, but I still don't think it will happen.
And I hope Simon Coveney says very little about it. Some of the things he says, you'd think Ireland was a nuclear power.
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2022, 03:32:12 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
Would the Abbey Centre be included?
This Ukraine craic is very messy because it's post Soviet Empire. A line on a map. NI is post British Empire. Left behind people.
Ukraine means borderlands. There is no natural border anyway
I suppose during the years of the Soviet Union there was a blurring of the lines and evidently there's been tensions along the Ukrainian Eastern borders for years which Putin is looking to exploit with his "peace keeping mission"..
Straight out of the US playbook, bringing "democracy" to various countries since WW2.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2022, 10:00:59 PM
Boris will sort it! ;D
Ironically Boris is best placed to put the most pressure on Putin and the Russian ruling elite if he were to freeze assets held in London and the City of London of loads of Putins Oligarchs.
But he won't as they've been lining his pockets and that of the Tory party for quite a few years now.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 22, 2022, 06:51:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2022, 03:32:12 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
Would the Abbey Centre be included?
This Ukraine craic is very messy because it's post Soviet Empire. A line on a map. NI is post British Empire. Left behind people.
Ukraine means borderlands. There is no natural border anyway
Wouldn't be any big loss.
Hold on a minute, I live beside it, I don't want to be a commie, leave us alone
Putin wasn't long in sensing the weakness of the western leaders once Merkel left the scene. None of the others have a single ounce of gravitas, I'm sure Vlad is laughing to himself at their empty threats.
Anybody who thinks he is going to stop with occupying the 2 independent regions needs their head examined, he as much as said the whole of the Ukraine has no right to exist.
Reminds me really strongly of the annexations of Alsace-Lorraine and the Sudetenland, with people running round ineffectually waving bits of paper in triumph as they got their asses handed to them by a madman.
Putin is running a huge culture war. He wants a block of pro Russian countries on Russia's borders and Ukraine doesn't agree.
If the Yanks declare sanctions he will say they want to destroy Russia.
If they do nothing he will drive a coach and horses through international law.
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2022, 09:52:37 AM
Putin is running a huge culture war. He wants a block of pro Russian countries on Russia's borders and Ukraine doesn't agree.
If the Yanks declare sanctions he will say they want to destroy Russia.
If they do nothing he will drive a coach and horses through international law.
WTAF?? A culture war??? With tanks and helicopters????
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 22, 2022, 11:28:05 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2022, 09:52:37 AM
Putin is running a huge culture war. He wants a block of pro Russian countries on Russia's borders and Ukraine doesn't agree.
If the Yanks declare sanctions he will say they want to destroy Russia.
If they do nothing he will drive a coach and horses through international law.
WTAF?? A culture war??? With tanks and helicopters????
You can't run a war without an enemy.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
It makes no sense for Putin to stop at the occupied DNR/LNR and Crimea.
Why would he stop there? Ukraine still exists. Ukraine is what he wants gone.
Neither will it make any sense for him to stop at Ukraine. Once you're in, you're all in.
Putin has already talked about the borders of the imperial Russian empire. That means he has his sights on the Baltic countries and Poland.
And shure why stop there, you're all in then, Russia used to occupy part of Germany, why not get that back too?
Hitlers are like sharks, they cannot stop.
If the west ever defeats Russia again, the country needs to be forcibly broken up.
The only thing that protects our freedom in the west is hard power. The last eight years have been a salutary lesson in that.
And tragically, we will probably need to use that hard power if we want to keep that freedom.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2022, 12:53:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
It makes no sense for Putin to stop at the occupied DNR/LNR and Crimea.
Why would he stop there? Ukraine still exists. Ukraine is what he wants gone.
Neither will it make any sense for him to stop at Ukraine. Once you're in, you're all in.
Putin has already talked about the borders of the imperial Russian empire. That means he has his sights on the Baltic countries and Poland.
And shure why stop there, you're all in then, Russia used to occupy part of Germany, why not get that back too?
Hitlers are like sharks, they cannot stop.
If the west ever defeats Russia again, the country needs to be forcibly broken up.
The only thing that protects our freedom in the west is hard power. The last eight years have been a salutary lesson in that.
And tragically, we will probably need to use that hard power if we want to keep that freedom.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying
But if there's one thing that hasn't worked out well historically, it's western powers taking over countries and arbitrarily placing borders within them to suit their own ends
Johnson just walked out of parliament. He said that there were sanctions on Roman Abramovich and some boy pulled him on it being a lie so he walked out ;D
Good enough for him.
Alexei Navalny doesn't hold back
https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1496098720076767236?t=eqd1czkQ8Y-j5UOxbguOTA&s=09
Quote from: Franko on February 22, 2022, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2022, 12:53:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
It makes no sense for Putin to stop at the occupied DNR/LNR and Crimea.
Why would he stop there? Ukraine still exists. Ukraine is what he wants gone.
Neither will it make any sense for him to stop at Ukraine. Once you're in, you're all in.
Putin has already talked about the borders of the imperial Russian empire. That means he has his sights on the Baltic countries and Poland.
And shure why stop there, you're all in then, Russia used to occupy part of Germany, why not get that back too?
Hitlers are like sharks, they cannot stop.
If the west ever defeats Russia again, the country needs to be forcibly broken up.
The only thing that protects our freedom in the west is hard power. The last eight years have been a salutary lesson in that.
And tragically, we will probably need to use that hard power if we want to keep that freedom.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying
But if there's one thing that hasn't worked out well historically, it's western powers taking over countries and arbitrarily placing borders within them to suit their own ends
I'd much prefer if it was the west imposing arbitrary borders on a genocidal Russia than a genocidal Russia imposing arbitrary borders on other European countries.
https://www.ft.com/content/a8041651-3cb9-47f0-893f-b86f40069baf
There's no reason for Moscow to just go into the [separatist territories]. It only makes sense if they go further," said Tatiana Stanovaya, founder of political consultancy R. Politik. "In Putin's logic he needs to take a significant part of Ukraine."
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2022, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Franko on February 22, 2022, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2022, 12:53:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don't let them take the Glens along with them.
Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
It makes no sense for Putin to stop at the occupied DNR/LNR and Crimea.
Why would he stop there? Ukraine still exists. Ukraine is what he wants gone.
Neither will it make any sense for him to stop at Ukraine. Once you're in, you're all in.
Putin has already talked about the borders of the imperial Russian empire. That means he has his sights on the Baltic countries and Poland.
And shure why stop there, you're all in then, Russia used to occupy part of Germany, why not get that back too?
Hitlers are like sharks, they cannot stop.
If the west ever defeats Russia again, the country needs to be forcibly broken up.
The only thing that protects our freedom in the west is hard power. The last eight years have been a salutary lesson in that.
And tragically, we will probably need to use that hard power if we want to keep that freedom.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying
But if there's one thing that hasn't worked out well historically, it's western powers taking over countries and arbitrarily placing borders within them to suit their own ends
I'd much prefer if it was the west imposing arbitrary borders on a genocidal Russia than a genocidal Russia imposing arbitrary borders on other European countries.
As would I.
My point still stands.
https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1496054448241754116
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/23/boris-johnson-downing-street-party-covid-pmqs-ukraine-truss/The Conservative Party will not return Russia-linked donations as they are properly declared, Liz Truss has said.
The clod will surely lose popularity if this is true, even amongst his die-hards;
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/donald-trump-praises-valdimir-putins-genius-move-on-ukraine-jwdm7k8pk
Actually, his die hards tend to like Putin. The whole Russiagate media thing caused a bit of a realignment in attitudes to Putin/Russia among Republicans.
Going to sound like a crack pot here but I seriously think that either trump or Boris (or both) are Russian agents. Donald has lots of ties to Russia while i remember reading an article a few years ago on how Boris always seem to be protected and be at the right place at the right time. It gave a good few examples going back even before his supposed role as journalist.
It would make more sense than them being "real" people and sadly that's not a joke because the mind does boggle on the pair of them. They are dreadful individuals and I didn't think I would ever say this I don't think Trump is as bad as Johnson.
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 23, 2022, 01:32:21 PM
Going to sound like a crack pot here but I seriously think that either trump or Boris (or both) are Russian agents. Donald has lots of ties to Russia while i remember reading an article a few years ago on how Boris always seem to be protected and be at the right place at the right time. It gave a good few examples going back even before his supposed role as journalist.
Tory party have received over £2M over the last number of years from Russian donors/oligarchs with links to Putin (don't think you can be an oligarch unless Putin says so or you end up in a bad/dead way) with Boris attending bunga bunga parties in Russian Billionaires houses in Italy as foreign secretary..
They're well compromised as can be seen by their feeble sanctions yesterday.
Truss's interview on BBC breakfast with Dan Walker was hilarious. Here is a picture of you with a russian donor and here are her ties - cue a large list.
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 23, 2022, 01:32:21 PM
Going to sound like a crack pot here but I seriously think that either trump or Boris (or both) are Russian agents. Donald has lots of ties to Russia while i remember reading an article a few years ago on how Boris always seem to be protected and be at the right place at the right time. It gave a good few examples going back even before his supposed role as journalist.
Russian assets, not Russian agents. Russia looks for narcissistic gobshites with "larger than life" personalities who it can skilfully help to manipulate and amplify.
They will be presented as "outsiders".
Preferably they will have money problems.
Dominic Cummings, Mick Wallace and George Galloway are definitely Russian assets too.
I'd nearly go further than that with Nigel Farage and Arron Banks.
When the Putin puppet and mass murderer Viktor Yanukovych was president of Ukraine, his main "political technologist" (as they call them in Russia) was Paul Manafort, he of Black, Manafort and Stone, aka "the Torturers' Lobby." Stone is Roger Stone.
Yanukovych fled Ukraine for Russia in 2014 after he turned his firing squad on the peaceful protestors on the Maidan and was impeached 328-0 by the Ukrainian parliament.
Two years later Manafort pitched up as Trump's campaign manager.
Russia has hopelessly compromised the west.
This moment has to change everything. If it doesn't, there will no longer be a west as we understand it.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2022, 02:16:50 PM
It would make more sense than them being "real" people and sadly that's not a joke because the mind does boggle on the pair of them. They are dreadful individuals and I didn't think I would ever say this I don't think Trump is as bad as Johnson.
Wouldn't agree. Both men are ignorant, selfish, egotistical, mendacious and totally amoral. However, I think BJ is more of a puppet, with no vision or strategy other than his own personal promotion, largely kept in place by an agenda-driven right-wing press, ERG Brexiteer fanatics and coterie of ordinary Tories who hold their noses and give him their tacit support because he wins them elections. When his use is past or irreparably damaged they will ditch him without compunction. And in fairness to most *English* people, in spite of being conned by Brexit, they have enough sense to see him for what he is.
Trump is a genuinely dangerous man, borderline paranoiac and seeking to pervert democracy because it suits him. He's moving beyond being a politician and towards a cult leader, who has unleashed mankind's basest instincts (hatred, violence, racism) among his sycophantic followers. The GOP, like the Tories, should be utterly ashamed of themselves for propping him up. That he's favourite to become POTUS in 2024 is very scary. I couldn't see British people standing for him were he in the UK.
https://www.ft.com/content/a28527e4-ba33-4d14-975b-33eaa45f6626
Vladimir Putin's chief of staff and his defence minister have been blacklisted by the EU as part of the bloc's first round of sanctions against Russia for its renewed aggression against Ukraine.
Margarita Simonyan, editor-in-chief of RT, the Kremlin-funded English language TV channel that broadcasts outside Russia, is on the sanctions list for having "promoted a positive attitude to . . . the actions of separatists in Donbas
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2022, 04:28:09 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 23, 2022, 01:32:21 PM
Going to sound like a crack pot here but I seriously think that either trump or Boris (or both) are Russian agents. Donald has lots of ties to Russia while i remember reading an article a few years ago on how Boris always seem to be protected and be at the right place at the right time. It gave a good few examples going back even before his supposed role as journalist.
Russian assets, not Russian agents. Russia looks for narcissistic gobshites with "larger than life" personalities who it can skilfully help to manipulate and amplify.
They will be presented as "outsiders".
Preferably they will have money problems.
Dominic Cummings, Mick Wallace and George Galloway are definitely Russian assets too.
I'd nearly go further than that with Nigel Farage and Arron Banks.
When the Putin puppet and mass murderer Viktor Yanukovych was president of Ukraine, his main "political technologist" (as they call them in Russia) was Paul Manafort, he of Black, Manafort and Stone, aka "the Torturers' Lobby." Stone is Roger Stone.
Yanukovych fled Ukraine for Russia in 2014 after he turned his firing squad on the peaceful protestors on the Maidan and was impeached 328-0 by the Ukrainian parliament.
Two years later Manafort pitched up as Trump's campaign manager.
Russia has hopelessly compromised the west.
This moment has to change everything. If it doesn't, there will no longer be a west as we understand it.
I would second that Aaron Banks nomination based on his tweets of recent days. And let's not forget he has Sammy and Ian on a leash so it will be their opinions.
Sammy likely to link Ukraine and Sinn Fein.
So, realistically, what do the West do to stop what right now looks like only a matter of time?
If it were me, I think I'd give the Ukrainians a few nuclear bombs for their aircraft - and make sure the Russian knew they had them. Would certainly give the Russians pause before they push too hard.
[Not that I don't understand Putin's predicament. Parts of Ukraine are less than 450 km from Moscow - its not as if we haven't been here before with the US installing ballistic nuke missiles in Turkey then the Soviets responding by putting their own in Cuba. Cuban missile crisis was actually the Turkish missile crisis - and the Yanks tried very hard to start WW3 twice on the same day; 1962-10-27 - if the situation were reversed, I'd wager hot headed Americans would have started WW3! If Ukraine joins NATO, and the US installed IRBMs, there is no way the Russian forces would have a reaction time sufficient to protect Moscow - even with their Gorgon missiles.
If the 1972 ABM treaty was revisited then there might be scope for fears to be alleviated. But its unlikely the hawks in the US would be up for that.]
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 23, 2022, 08:29:33 PM
So, realistically, what do the West do to stop what right now looks like only a matter of time?
If it were me, I think I'd give the Ukrainians a few nuclear bombs for their aircraft - and make sure the Russian knew they had them. Would certainly give the Russians pause before they push too hard.
[Not that I don't understand Putin's predicament. Parts of Ukraine are less than 450 km from Moscow - its not as if we haven't been here before with the US installing ballistic nuke missiles in Turkey then the Soviets responding by putting their own in Cuba. Cuban missile crisis was actually the Turkish missile crisis - and the Yanks tried very hard to start WW3 twice on the same day; 1962-10-27 - if the situation were reversed, I'd wager hot headed Americans would have started WW3! If Ukraine joins NATO, and the US installed IRBMs, there is no way the Russian forces would have a reaction time sufficient to protect Moscow - even with their Gorgon missiles.
If the 1972 ABM treaty was revisited then there might be scope for fears to be alleviated. But its unlikely the hawks in the US would be up for that.]
Putin is not in a "predicament".
Russia has nukes in Kaliningrad - right in the heart of Europe - and from next Sunday, when Belarus has a fake "referendum", he'll be able to have them in Belarus too.
NATO is a defensive alliance and there is nothing in Norway, Poland, the Baltics, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria etc. which is a remote threat to Russia.
Nor Finland or Ukraine.
Russia has zero case of any kind here.
All the talk of recent months has been pointless. Talking heads talking in "adult" voices, and the vast majority of it unadulterated shite.
If people would just get the following three words through their heads, they will understand this better than listening to a week of commentary.
Putin is Hitler.
Those three words are by far the most accurate summation of where we are. Let those words sink in.
Oh f**k up sid you clown.
Compare the combat doctrines of the USA to the Soviets and now Russians from 1950 to now and its plainly clear to see who is trying to project power across the world by any and all means and who is focussed on a defensive war with nuclear response as main offensive deterrent.
Not saying Putin isn't a c**t, 'cos he is.
But your so far up yer own arse you can't see beyond yer own sh!te.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 23, 2022, 11:23:57 PM
Oh f**k up sid you clown.
Compare the combat doctrines of the USA to the Soviets and now Russians from 1950 to now and its plainly clear to see who is trying to project power across the world by any and all means and who is focussed on a defensive war with nuclear response as main offensive deterrent.
Not saying Putin isn't a c**t, 'cos he is.
But your so far up yer own arse you can't see beyond yer own sh!te.
Who is trying to project power here?
You are calling what Russia is doing "a defensive war"?
What?
Putin on NATO:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1496289085224550404.html
To those arguing that NATO expansion has been a constant source of tension with Russia, a few facts. 1/ THREAD
November 2001, Putin said this: "we differ in the ways and means we perceive that are suitable for reaching the same objective... [But] one can rest assured that whatever final solution is found, it will not threaten ... the interests of both our countries and of the world."
Putin also in 2001, "Russia acknowledges the role of NATO in the world of today, Russia is prepared to expand its cooperation with this organization. " 3/
"And if we change the quality of the relationship, if we change the format of the relationship between Russia and NATO, then I think NATO enlargement will cease to be an issue—will no longer be a relevant issue." 4/
In 2001, on whether he opposed the Baltic states' membership in NATO, Putin stated, "We of course are not in a position to tell people what to do. We cannot forbid people to make certain choices if they want to increase the security of their nations in a particular way." 5/
Putin, May 2002, "I am absolutely convinced that Ukraine will not shy away from the processes of expanding interaction with NATO and the Western allies as a whole." 6/
Putin on Ukraine in NATO: "Ukraine has its own relations with NATO; there is the Ukraine-NATO Council. At the end of the day, the decision is to be taken by NATO and Ukraine. It is a matter for those two partners." 7/
So what changed? Democratic expansion, or what Putin calls US-supported coups in the post-communist world. Kremlin concerns about NATO expansion have been a variable, not a constant, over the last 30 years. They spike AFTER democratic breakthroughs. 8/
The bombing has begun. I honestly didn't think Putin was this mad. Horrendous act of aggression with horrendous consequences.
https://twitter.com/Nat_Vasilyeva/status/1496718103367016449
Quote
Nataliya Vasilyeva
@Nat_Vasilyeva
To wake up in a Nazi Germany. I'm ashamed and can't breathe.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2022, 11:30:41 PM
Who is trying to project power here?
You are calling what Russia is doing "a defensive war"?
What?
As usual, your incapable of reading in context.
Context to your notion of NATO being a defensive organisation and that being enough to placate Russia (or USSR before them). Clearly, the main member of NATO is not defensive nor has engaged in defensive actions on a time frame across decades.
Anyway, shit's really hit the fan now. The West will have to come up with something else, cos a few sanctions aren't gonna cut it if China do their own thing.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2022, 07:49:06 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2022, 11:30:41 PM
Who is trying to project power here?
You are calling what Russia is doing "a defensive war"?
What?
As usual, your incapable of reading in context.
Context to your notion of NATO being a defensive organisation and that being enough to placate Russia (or USSR before them). Clearly, the main member of NATO is not defensive nor has engaged in defensive actions on a time frame across decades.
Anyway, shit's really hit the fan now. The West will have to come up with something else, cos a few sanctions aren't gonna cut it if China do their own thing.
That's shite.
You talked about "projecting power in the world" and a "defensive war".
The US and NATO aren't projecting power here and Russia is NOT waging a defensive war.
If you cannot come out and state what is happening here, we can draw more than reasonable conclusions about your worldview.
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.
Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 08:37:57 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.
Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.
Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 24, 2022, 09:02:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 08:37:57 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.
Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.
Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
Totally agree with regards sanctions. I don't know how many are imposed already, but it's not working. Russia will probably hit back with their own sanctions anyways. I wonder is Putin calling America's bluff when he mentions the most 'catastrophic thing in history' bit? Or has he the arsenal to actually wage war in all directions. China agreeing with Russia going by early reports too.
When I say agreeing - I mean blaming the US.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 24, 2022, 09:02:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 08:37:57 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.
Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.
Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
A place the size of Russia would be self sufficient and won't give a damn about US or EU or others' sanctions.
The "west" will hardly invade or come to military aid of Ukraine for fear of triggering WW3.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 24, 2022, 10:34:27 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 24, 2022, 09:02:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 08:37:57 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.
Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.
Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
A place the size of Russia would be self sufficient and won't give a damn about US or EU or others' sanctions.
The "west" will hardly invade or come to military aid of Ukraine for fear of triggering WW3.
The West is focusing on sanctions with more expected this afternoon.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 24, 2022, 10:34:27 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 24, 2022, 09:02:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 08:37:57 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.
Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.
Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
A place the size of Russia would be self sufficient and won't give a damn about US or EU or others' sanctions.
The "west" will hardly invade or come to military aid of Ukraine for fear of triggering WW3.
Refusal to buy Russian energy and lock their financial institutions out of world access would hit them hard enough eventually, but they have now pivoted towards China anyway. I'd say Taiwan is getting pretty nervous at the moment.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 08:37:57 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.
Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.
Sorting out their doorstep?
I'm sure you're happy enough with Armagh's current status then.
Sure sorting out their doorstep was what the English were at back when they finally completely took over Ireland under the Tudors. Had to do so, supposedly, to protect themselves from the geopolitical threats of the time.
Russia may be a huge country geographically but it's economy is only comparable in size to Italy, so economic sanctions will bite eventually, especially if they are well targeted.
I would say the UK Government will be squirming as it becomes (even more) apparent how much dirty money London cleans and how much the Conservative party take in donations from dodgy Russians.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 24, 2022, 11:16:32 AM
Russia may be a huge country geographically but it's economy is only comparable in size to Italy, so economic sanctions will bite eventually, especially if they are well targeted.
I would say the UK Government will be squirming as it becomes (even more) apparent how much dirty money London cleans and how much the Conservative party take in donations from dodgy Russians.
UK and European Armies are ill prepared for this type of intervention hence their reticence to put feet on the ground and they'll try to avoid doing so for as long as possible and Biden also commits US troops to the cause.
Scary times indeed.
Putin is an empire builder and he's being laying the groundwork for years, testing the waters in Syria and Crimea, building allegiances and political favours, creating turmoil in political systems, cyber attacks and it looks like it's all coming to a head now.
One historian believed there'd always be a war of some sort every 50 years or so in Europe and they're not wrong.
Watching NATO on sky news and I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in them.
Boris Johnson's comments are soundbites that he uses over and over again "appalling" etc
Joe Biden trying to put on a strong front when in reality the USA does not care
EU just keeps banging on about sanctions - I don't think Russia gives a s**t to be perfectly honest.
Ukraine must feel very betrayed by the EU. However, this is another reason why you celebrities should be barred from politics!
Putin has called everyone's bluff and nobody will step up.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 24, 2022, 10:34:27 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 24, 2022, 09:02:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 08:37:57 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.
Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.
Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
A place the size of Russia would be self sufficient and won't give a damn about US or EU or others' sanctions.
The "west" will hardly invade or come to military aid of Ukraine for fear of triggering WW3.
Russia is huge in terms of land mass, most of which is wilderness/useless/frozen over. The Russia economy isn't huge compared to the EU/US.
If the world boycotted Russian gas and oil it would cripple them, although how anyone can justify that then go buy oil from the Saudi's I really don't know.
https://www.ft.com/content/b8b02d31-c258-4e98-8c3c-8cbeabef792e
Western security services, which have accurately predicted the course of events up until now, believe that Putin intends to overthrow the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime in its place. This "decapitation" strategy will take in not only the central government, but also regional and local governments.
Lists have been drawn up of Ukrainian officials who will be arrested or killed. The military tactics that Russia uses are likely to be extremely brutal — "the kind of thing we saw in Syria and Chechnya", according to one US official.
The deployment of Russian artillery and its air force would mean heavy military and civilian casualties on the Ukrainian side. Some western sources have spoken of 50,000 deaths within a week. The Ukrainian military is determined to fight back. But it is likely to find itself heavily outgunned. The Russian goal may be to surround Kyiv and force the collapse or resignation of the Ukrainian government, led by Volodymyr Zelensky
. The Russians will not want to get involved in urban warfare, if they can avoid it. They are also determined to keep the west out of this conflict. In his speech, announcing the invasion, Putin warned outsiders tempted to interfere that there would be "consequences you have never encountered in your history" — a thinly veiled reference to nuclear war.
For now, the western reaction will be confined to economic sanctions. Fearing that this moment was fast approaching, US and European diplomats have been working on a co-ordinated sanctions package for some weeks. That will be rolled out over the coming days. Russia will now be hit with financial, individual and technological sanctions.
Russian banks will be cut off from finance. Powerful Russian individuals will find themselves unable to travel to the west and will have their assets in western banks frozen. Russia will be cut off from advanced technology — such as semiconductors and aircraft parts. The effects on the Russian economy are likely to be profound. But that is unlikely to divert Putin from his chosen course. The Russian leader himself is not going to go hungry. Instead, he is likely to use the war he has unleashed as an excuse to wipe out the last vestiges of political freedom in Russia. The country will now tilt into full-scale dictatorship, which will make it easier to stamp out any dissent from Russians dismayed by the course that Putin has chosen.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 08:37:57 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.
Many other Armagh GAA people think they're Oliver Cromwell?
Or is it just yerself? ;)
Its so sad to follow this on Twitter (i wouldnt trust a word to come from anywhere else). The Russians seem to be getting minimal resistance. I would have thought Ukraine would have a lot of good military kit from the yanks. Who knows Putin's motives for sure - is it empire building or does he just want to keep the americans off his doorstep? Time will tell I suppose. God love the poor Ukranians.
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 12:08:02 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/b8b02d31-c258-4e98-8c3c-8cbeabef792e
Western security services, which have accurately predicted the course of events up until now, believe that Putin intends to overthrow the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime in its place. This "decapitation" strategy will take in not only the central government, but also regional and local governments.
Lists have been drawn up of Ukrainian officials who will be arrested or killed. The military tactics that Russia uses are likely to be extremely brutal — "the kind of thing we saw in Syria and Chechnya", according to one US official.
The deployment of Russian artillery and its air force would mean heavy military and civilian casualties on the Ukrainian side. Some western sources have spoken of 50,000 deaths within a week. The Ukrainian military is determined to fight back. But it is likely to find itself heavily outgunned. The Russian goal may be to surround Kyiv and force the collapse or resignation of the Ukrainian government, led by Volodymyr Zelensky
. The Russians will not want to get involved in urban warfare, if they can avoid it. They are also determined to keep the west out of this conflict. In his speech, announcing the invasion, Putin warned outsiders tempted to interfere that there would be "consequences you have never encountered in your history" — a thinly veiled reference to nuclear war.
For now, the western reaction will be confined to economic sanctions. Fearing that this moment was fast approaching, US and European diplomats have been working on a co-ordinated sanctions package for some weeks. That will be rolled out over the coming days. Russia will now be hit with financial, individual and technological sanctions.
Russian banks will be cut off from finance. Powerful Russian individuals will find themselves unable to travel to the west and will have their assets in western banks frozen. Russia will be cut off from advanced technology — such as semiconductors and aircraft parts. The effects on the Russian economy are likely to be profound. But that is unlikely to divert Putin from his chosen course. The Russian leader himself is not going to go hungry. Instead, he is likely to use the war he has unleashed as an excuse to wipe out the last vestiges of political freedom in Russia. The country will now tilt into full-scale dictatorship, which will make it easier to stamp out any dissent from Russians dismayed by the course that Putin has chosen.
You have to laugh at the hypocrisy of these american experts - Do they mean like the tactics they have used and supported the use off in places like Palestine and Yemen. f**k off you hypocrites.
It looks like the Russians are gaining ground at lightning speed.
Quote from: Sportacus on February 24, 2022, 12:23:32 PM
It looks like the Russians are gaining ground at lightning speed.
Hopefully for the sake of the innocent this is over asap.
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 12:15:43 PM
Its so sad to follow this on Twitter (i wouldnt trust a word to come from anywhere else). The Russians seem to be getting minimal resistance. I would have thought Ukraine would have a lot of good military kit from the yanks. Who knows Putin's motives for sure - is it empire building or does he just want to keep the americans off his doorstep? Time will tell I suppose. God love the poor Ukranians.
Head you over sure and get stuck into them
https://www.ft.com/content/948dca16-71b9-42c8-9faa-e66c0a76aca7
The critical question that could determine the fate of the war is whether Ukraine's forces can organise a strategic retreat to avoid encirclement or find a fallback line from which they can successfully resist or delay the Russian advance westward, said Michael Kofman, senior research scientist at CNA, a US-based think-tank. "Quantitatively and qualitatively, Russia has considerable supremacy here. Ukrainians are facing a grim situation," Kofman said. "We should not be surprised by early Russian ground advances, as the question is when will Ukrainian forces choose to hold the line.
https://youtu.be/htgr3pvBr-I
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 12:17:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 12:08:02 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/b8b02d31-c258-4e98-8c3c-8cbeabef792e
Western security services, which have accurately predicted the course of events up until now, believe that Putin intends to overthrow the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime in its place. This "decapitation" strategy will take in not only the central government, but also regional and local governments.
Lists have been drawn up of Ukrainian officials who will be arrested or killed. The military tactics that Russia uses are likely to be extremely brutal — "the kind of thing we saw in Syria and Chechnya", according to one US official.
The deployment of Russian artillery and its air force would mean heavy military and civilian casualties on the Ukrainian side. Some western sources have spoken of 50,000 deaths within a week. The Ukrainian military is determined to fight back. But it is likely to find itself heavily outgunned. The Russian goal may be to surround Kyiv and force the collapse or resignation of the Ukrainian government, led by Volodymyr Zelensky
. The Russians will not want to get involved in urban warfare, if they can avoid it. They are also determined to keep the west out of this conflict. In his speech, announcing the invasion, Putin warned outsiders tempted to interfere that there would be "consequences you have never encountered in your history" — a thinly veiled reference to nuclear war.
For now, the western reaction will be confined to economic sanctions. Fearing that this moment was fast approaching, US and European diplomats have been working on a co-ordinated sanctions package for some weeks. That will be rolled out over the coming days. Russia will now be hit with financial, individual and technological sanctions.
Russian banks will be cut off from finance. Powerful Russian individuals will find themselves unable to travel to the west and will have their assets in western banks frozen. Russia will be cut off from advanced technology — such as semiconductors and aircraft parts. The effects on the Russian economy are likely to be profound. But that is unlikely to divert Putin from his chosen course. The Russian leader himself is not going to go hungry. Instead, he is likely to use the war he has unleashed as an excuse to wipe out the last vestiges of political freedom in Russia. The country will now tilt into full-scale dictatorship, which will make it easier to stamp out any dissent from Russians dismayed by the course that Putin has chosen.
You have to laugh at the hypocrisy of these american experts - Do they mean like the tactics they have used and supported the use off in places like Palestine and Yemen. f**k off you hypocrites.
Why just blame the americans for palestine. No country in the world seems to support the plight of the palestinians which I find incredible.
I'd Russia gets away with this you can be certain China will try it next.
Not sure if Putin is thinking long term. It they seize Ukraine then I imagine most board states will want to join nato there putting Russia in a worse position they are in now.
Also I would say this will be used to justify an EU army in the future which again long term would put Russia in a worse position than they were before.
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.
Not one f**k.
Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.
America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.
It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 02:01:06 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.
Not one f**k.
Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.
America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.
It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.
Spot on
Whatever wrong the US has perpetrated, two wrongs don't make a right.
Quote from: APM on February 24, 2022, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 02:01:06 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.
Not one f**k.
Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.
America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.
It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.
Spot on
Whatever wrong the US has perpetrated, two wrongs don't make a right.
Its pure whataboutery nonsense. Many here talking about the cuban missile crisis 60 bleeding yrs ago as some sort of argument look even more ridiculous after today.
The sanctions being talked about the other day were a joke, surely Putin wouldn't be worried that a few men he knows have their assets frozen. As for their economy/oil sales, you could see the like of China becoming an extremely loyal customer to make up the difference.
Sanctions will.be serious
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/24/russia-ukraine-news-invasion-war-nato-putin-sanctions-latest/
A group of Brazilian footballers who play in Ukraine pleaded for help in leaving the country, saying Russia's invasion had left them stranded in a Kyiv hotel where they sought refuge.
"There's no fuel, the border is closed, the airspace is closed. There's no way for us to get out," said centre-back Marlon in the video posted on Instagram, one of 13 Brazilians who play for Shakhtar Donetsk, one of Ukraine's top clubs.
"We're here with our families staying in a hotel because of the situation. We're asking for the Brazilian government to help. That's why we're making this video."
The video shows around 20 people, including the footballers' families, sitting and standing in a room at a Kyiv hotel.
The footballers all play for Shakhtar and Dynamo Kiev. The group included international forward David Neres, who recently signed with Shakhtar from Dutch side Ajax.
Quote from: lenny on February 24, 2022, 01:13:30 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 12:17:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 12:08:02 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/b8b02d31-c258-4e98-8c3c-8cbeabef792e
Western security services, which have accurately predicted the course of events up until now, believe that Putin intends to overthrow the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime in its place. This "decapitation" strategy will take in not only the central government, but also regional and local governments.
Lists have been drawn up of Ukrainian officials who will be arrested or killed. The military tactics that Russia uses are likely to be extremely brutal — "the kind of thing we saw in Syria and Chechnya", according to one US official.
The deployment of Russian artillery and its air force would mean heavy military and civilian casualties on the Ukrainian side. Some western sources have spoken of 50,000 deaths within a week. The Ukrainian military is determined to fight back. But it is likely to find itself heavily outgunned. The Russian goal may be to surround Kyiv and force the collapse or resignation of the Ukrainian government, led by Volodymyr Zelensky
. The Russians will not want to get involved in urban warfare, if they can avoid it. They are also determined to keep the west out of this conflict. In his speech, announcing the invasion, Putin warned outsiders tempted to interfere that there would be "consequences you have never encountered in your history" — a thinly veiled reference to nuclear war.
For now, the western reaction will be confined to economic sanctions. Fearing that this moment was fast approaching, US and European diplomats have been working on a co-ordinated sanctions package for some weeks. That will be rolled out over the coming days. Russia will now be hit with financial, individual and technological sanctions.
Russian banks will be cut off from finance. Powerful Russian individuals will find themselves unable to travel to the west and will have their assets in western banks frozen. Russia will be cut off from advanced technology — such as semiconductors and aircraft parts. The effects on the Russian economy are likely to be profound. But that is unlikely to divert Putin from his chosen course. The Russian leader himself is not going to go hungry. Instead, he is likely to use the war he has unleashed as an excuse to wipe out the last vestiges of political freedom in Russia. The country will now tilt into full-scale dictatorship, which will make it easier to stamp out any dissent from Russians dismayed by the course that Putin has chosen.
You have to laugh at the hypocrisy of these american experts - Do they mean like the tactics they have used and supported the use off in places like Palestine and Yemen. f**k off you hypocrites.
Why just blame the americans for palestine. No country in the world seems to support the plight of the palestinians which I find incredible.
I didn't, my comment was in reference to the bit in bold which came from a US official. But that being said, America is by far the terrorist state Israels main world sponsor by far.
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 24, 2022, 04:06:29 PM
The sanctions being talked about the other day were a joke, surely Putin wouldn't be worried that a few men he knows have their assets frozen. As for their economy/oil sales, you could see the like of China becoming an extremely loyal customer to make up the difference.
Putin couldn't give a flying f..k if his people where frozen never mind his assets. Even with the Donbas problem there is no excuse for this. It's like Micheal Martin and Simon coveney rolling into south Armagh in tanks just because it's a nationalist area. The man really is a whacked up sociopath.
A lot depends on what Putin does. If he decapitates the Ukrainian elite and murders the key players as Stalin did in Poland in the Katyn forest then all bets are off.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 24, 2022, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: APM on February 24, 2022, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 02:01:06 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.
Not one f**k.
Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.
America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.
It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.
Spot on
Whatever wrong the US has perpetrated, two wrongs don't make a right.
Its pure whataboutery nonsense. Many here talking about the cuban missile crisis 60 bleeding yrs ago as some sort of argument look even more ridiculous after today.
Putin is clearly in the wrong here but to play down the atrocities the USA and UK for decades is disingenuous. There is no point in calling out Russia when no one has called out the USA or UK before.
Back on track I am not sure how this is anything other than a short sighted victory for Putin. Surely Russia will end up worse off in the long run which is why i am wondering what the logic in this or is he just another hilter in the making.
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 24, 2022, 05:16:57 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 24, 2022, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: APM on February 24, 2022, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 02:01:06 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.
Not one f**k.
Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.
America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.
It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.
Spot on
Whatever wrong the US has perpetrated, two wrongs don't make a right.
Its pure whataboutery nonsense. Many here talking about the cuban missile crisis 60 bleeding yrs ago as some sort of argument look even more ridiculous after today.
Putin is clearly in the wrong here but to play down the atrocities the USA and UK for decades is disingenuous. There is no point in calling out Russia when no one has called out the USA or UK before.
Back on track I am not sure how this is anything other than a short sighted victory for Putin. Surely Russia will end up worse off in the long run which is why i am wondering what the logic in this or is he just another hilter in the making.
Putin is a megalomaniac and extremely dangerous because he is unhinged. He wants to go down in history and probably feels he's running out of time as he has health problems.
https://www.ft.com/content/5b423554-6ce9-49fe-b74c-da41298b565f
A senior western intelligence official has warned that there "is not much time" left until Russia has assembled overwhelming military forces around Kyiv as columns of tanks and troops that have moved south from Belarus link up with airborne and special forces that have fought for control of the city's airports.
"Eventually they will have massive forces [encircling the Ukrainian capital], if not by the end of the day, then tomorrow morning if they proceed at the pace they are moving," the official added.
"I am confident that in the coming hours Russia will seek to deploy an overwhelming force on the Ukrainian capital."
Quote from: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 07:51:42 AM
That's shite.
You talked about "projecting power in the world" and a "defensive war".
The US and NATO aren't projecting power here and Russia is NOT waging a defensive war.
If you cannot come out and state what is happening here, we can draw more than reasonable conclusions about your worldview.
Are you not capable of reading?
When I talk about power projection, I'm not even talking about all of NATO, just the yanks.
When I talk about history, I'm obviously not referring to current events.
That is clear and obvious to anyone with a grain of sense in their brains.
That history is what has shaped the Russian mindset. Rightly or wrongly.
I mentioned the yanks almost starting WW3 twice on 1962-10-27. Twice it was Soviet officers that did the right thing - outside of their standing orders I might add - that stopped things escalating. I'm not sure given current events that you'd find a senior Russian officer with the same gravitas as their paranoia is probably higher than ever.
Anyway - looking at whats going on now - I think Putin's lost the plot. Threats, bravado and even "little green men" are one thing, but he's stepped way over the line here.
As you say - at this point the West have to act, otherwise there is a house of cards ready to tumble.
- Lithuania
- Estonia
- Taiwan
to name a few
Quote from: lenny on February 24, 2022, 05:37:16 PM
He wants to go down in history and probably feels he's running out of time as he has health problems.
Scarily that makes quite good sense.
The dying kicks of a megalomaniac that is going to drag loads of innocents into the grave with him.
Russian troops have seized the Chernobyl nuclear power plant
https://t.co/6EyVAmsJ0r
Quote from: rodney trotter on February 24, 2022, 06:29:55 PM
Russian troops have seized the Chernobyl nuclear power plant
https://t.co/6EyVAmsJ0r
Shortcut to Kiev
Quote from: APM on February 24, 2022, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 02:01:06 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.
Not one f**k.
Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.
America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.
It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.
Spot on
Whatever wrong the US has perpetrated, two wrongs don't make a right.
Reminded me of this
https://youtu.be/s2LYuRzF-c8
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland? All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore. Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Quote from: rodney trotter on February 24, 2022, 06:29:55 PM
Russian troops have seized the Chernobyl nuclear power plant
https://t.co/6EyVAmsJ0r
Jesus there's a international collaboration of engineers over there trying to clean up the mess they made 30 years ago and they are in there disrupting it. What the actual f..k is wrong with these people.
The real crisis will be who will stick up Russian flegs and who'll take up Ukrainian flegs along the peace wall in Belfast
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2022, 07:48:37 PM
The real crisis will be who will stick up Russian flegs and who'll take up Ukrainian flegs along the peace wall in Belfast
Surely everybody hates us we don't care would have to be loyalism/Russia
Quote from: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 06:26:01 PM
You're an apologist for Russian propaganda because you cannot criticise what Russia is doing without bullshit equivocations and bullshit "rationalisations" for actual blood and soil fascist imperialism.
I'm an apologist because I don't absolve a particular party of their wrongs?
So instead, I should be turning a blind eye to the wrongs of one side and completely slating the other?!?
WTF man. Get a grip of yourself.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 06:26:01 PM
Putin needs to be taken out - killed - and yesterday.
Probably true. Hard to know how many others in the higher echelons of Russian govt agree with him because they believe in it vs. agree with him to save their lives.
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 07:52:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2022, 07:48:37 PM
The real crisis will be who will stick up Russian flegs and who'll take up Ukrainian flegs along the peace wall in Belfast
Surely everybody hates us we don't care would have to be loyalism/Russia
That Russian aggression against Sinn Fein should lead to unequivocal loyalist support you'd have thought.
But to be fair, it was very altruistic of Sammy to be concerned for Sinn Fein the other day.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2022, 07:54:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 07:52:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2022, 07:48:37 PM
The real crisis will be who will stick up Russian flegs and who'll take up Ukrainian flegs along the peace wall in Belfast
Surely everybody hates us we don't care would have to be loyalism/Russia
That Russian aggression against Sinn Fein should lead to unequivocal loyalist support you'd have thought.
But to be fair, it was very altruistic of Sammy to be concerned for Sinn Fein the other day.
When he's sleeping I'd imagine he's going 'Sinn fein bastard' flat out
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 07:52:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2022, 07:48:37 PM
The real crisis will be who will stick up Russian flegs and who'll take up Ukrainian flegs along the peace wall in Belfast
Surely everybody hates us we don't care would have to be loyalism/Russia
Should get decent prices from the flag manufacturers seeing as the colours are the same.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1496868208736882694
https://mobile.twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1496867412746149891
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 24, 2022, 04:33:06 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 24, 2022, 04:06:29 PM
The sanctions being talked about the other day were a joke, surely Putin wouldn't be worried that a few men he knows have their assets frozen. As for their economy/oil sales, you could see the like of China becoming an extremely loyal customer to make up the difference.
Putin couldn't give a flying f..k if his people where frozen never mind his assets. Even with the Donbas problem there is no excuse for this. It's like Micheal Martin and Simon coveney rolling into south Armagh in tanks just because it's a nationalist area. The man really is a whacked up sociopath.
That should have been done years ago but anyway...
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 08:17:53 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1496868208736882694
Poor child in that video, seems very wrong that a child has to be put through the terror of war.
Quote from: Sportacus on February 24, 2022, 07:27:54 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland? All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore. Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 24, 2022, 07:27:54 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland? All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore. Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.
You think anyone would come to our aid if say Russia, UK or America invaded us - nato or no nato? Get real.
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 11:26:07 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 24, 2022, 07:27:54 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland? All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore. Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.
You think anyone would come to our aid if say Russia, UK or America invaded us - nato or no nato? Get real.
why would anyone invade Ireland ?
It's not the 12th century don't worry about such things
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 11:26:07 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 24, 2022, 07:27:54 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland? All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore. Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.
You think anyone would come to our aid if say Russia, UK or America invaded us - nato or no nato? Get real.
I am pretty sure that if we were in NATO and Russia invaded that the other NATO countries would indeed come to our aid.
If you do not believe that then you are not in reality.
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 11:26:07 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 24, 2022, 07:27:54 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland? All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore. Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.
You think anyone would come to our aid if say Russia, UK or America invaded us - nato or no nato? Get real.
You clearly don't understand what NATO membership entails
Google NATO article 5 for starters
Quote from: Gmac on February 24, 2022, 11:56:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 11:26:07 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 24, 2022, 07:27:54 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland? All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore. Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.
You think anyone would come to our aid if say Russia, UK or America invaded us - nato or no nato? Get real.
why would anyone invade Ireland ?
It's not the 12th century don't worry about such things
We are still.dealung with the fallout from the 12th century invasion . England can always go rogue in future.
Another thing this highlights for me is the stink of the tories. They can't invest in the army because they are too busy giving money to their mates, they can't invest in the NHS because they are too busy giving money to their mates. They can't mess with Russia because they are too busy taking their money and even if they wanted to they invest in nothing. It highlights how disgustingly corrupt that the UK has become.
Free to read
https://www.ft.com/content/742f15fc-675a-4622-b022-cbec444651cf
Russia and Ukraine at odds regarding radiation levels at Chernobyl. Russia says it hasn't changed, Ukraine saying it's gone up. For once in this conflict, I hope the Russians are correct, but I doubt it somehow. Reports of a hostage situation there too.
https://t.co/NcwZyg6PJi
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/heavyweight-champion-vitali-klitschko-plans-fight-ukraine-brother/story?id=83094779
Warriors
Meanwhile Lomochenko fuked of the Greece
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 25, 2022, 08:49:54 AM
Another thing this highlights for me is the stink of the tories. They can't invest in the army because they are too busy giving money to their mates, they can't invest in the NHS because they are too busy giving money to their mates. They can't mess with Russia because they are too busy taking their money and even if they wanted to they invest in nothing. It highlights how disgustingly corrupt that the UK has become.
Very true. The traditional Tory party was pro business, pro Army, and not pro Russia. This lot are the complete opposite, even though they use the same party name.
Let's not forget Belarus involvement in all this. Spineless cnuts. When it's all over, and hopefully Ukraine prevails, there'll be no love lost between those neighbours.
Quote from: Sportacus on February 25, 2022, 03:17:39 PM
Let's not forget Belarus involvement in all this. Spineless cnuts. When it's all over, and hopefully Ukraine prevails, there'll be no love lost between those neighbours.
If the Russians have been fúcking around with elections in UK, the states and even funding Le Pen in France, it would hardly come to anyones surprise that they actively sought "friendly" governments on their doorstep...
The Belarus leaders are bought an paid for already.
What is Putins end goal?
Break up Ukraine and install a proxy government obeying his every whim and does he go after other small ex Soviet block countries as well?
Quote from: johnnycool on February 25, 2022, 03:25:52 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 25, 2022, 03:17:39 PM
Let's not forget Belarus involvement in all this. Spineless cnuts. When it's all over, and hopefully Ukraine prevails, there'll be no love lost between those neighbours.
If the Russians have been fúcking around with elections in UK, the states and even funding Le Pen in France, it would hardly come to anyones surprise that they actively sought "friendly" governments on their doorstep...
The Belarus leaders are bought an paid for already.
What is Putins end goal?
Break up Ukraine and install a proxy government obeying his every whim and does he go after other small ex Soviet block countries as well?
Putin seems to want to return to.the glory days of the Soviet Union..
Quote from: seafoid on February 25, 2022, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 25, 2022, 03:25:52 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 25, 2022, 03:17:39 PM
Let's not forget Belarus involvement in all this. Spineless cnuts. When it's all over, and hopefully Ukraine prevails, there'll be no love lost between those neighbours.
If the Russians have been fúcking around with elections in UK, the states and even funding Le Pen in France, it would hardly come to anyones surprise that they actively sought "friendly" governments on their doorstep...
The Belarus leaders are bought an paid for already.
What is Putins end goal?
Break up Ukraine and install a proxy government obeying his every whim and does he go after other small ex Soviet block countries as well?
Putin seems to want to return to.the glory days of the Soviet Union..
Pretty sure he blames Lennin for giving the various part of the Soviet Union like Ukraine too much autonomy making it weak, and wants to return to the era of Alexander III when there was one Theocratic Russian Empire!!!
https://www.ft.com/content/c48390ea-37b0-4bfa-b3af-4c8ccbf01b88
Ukraine's defence ministry called on residents of northern Kyiv to "make Molotov cocktails, neutralise the occupier", while defence minister Oleksii Reznikov said 18,000 submachine guns were being distributed to citizens in the capital.
Quote from: seafoid on February 25, 2022, 04:07:20 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c48390ea-37b0-4bfa-b3af-4c8ccbf01b88
Ukraine's defence ministry called on residents of northern Kyiv to "make Molotov cocktails, neutralise the occupier", while defence minister Oleksii Reznikov said 18,000 submachine guns were being distributed to citizens in the capital.
Get to know how to make a few IED's, and let the guerrilla warfare begin..
Putin might lose even more support at home once the body bags start returning there.
Quote from: seafoid on February 25, 2022, 04:07:20 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c48390ea-37b0-4bfa-b3af-4c8ccbf01b88
Ukraine's defence ministry called on residents of northern Kyiv to "make Molotov cocktails, neutralise the occupier", while defence minister Oleksii Reznikov said 18,000 submachine guns were being distributed to citizens in the capital.
Surely SF have a step by step guide pdf for this they could send over?
With this latest news, surely Russia will be forced to abandon this aggression...
https://www.independent.ie/news/russia-kicked-out-of-eurovision-song-contest-following-ukrainian-invasion-41385734.html
That will encourage Invasions all over Europe ;D
What if a platoon of Ukrainians dressed up as Russians walk into Poland to get NATO involved. Just a thought. Would make Russia's false flag with the separatists look like a picnic
This may drag on for God knows how long but this won't end well for Putin.
In the meantime I don't think the Ukrainians will be getting too excited by the London Eye and No 10 lit up in their national colours.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 25, 2022, 03:25:52 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 25, 2022, 03:17:39 PM
Let's not forget Belarus involvement in all this. Spineless cnuts. When it's all over, and hopefully Ukraine prevails, there'll be no love lost between those neighbours.
If the Russians have been fúcking around with elections in UK, the states and even funding Le Pen in France, it would hardly come to anyones surprise that they actively sought "friendly" governments on their doorstep...
The Belarus leaders are bought an paid for already.
What is Putins end goal?
Break up Ukraine and install a proxy government obeying his every whim and does he go after other small ex Soviet block countries as well?
He's 20 years in power. It's gone to his head. Probably thinks he's God at this point. That will be his undoing.
Snake Island, Ukrainian Island 30 miles off the coast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y2iVHUMZhg
It sounds as though the invasion has started to go somewhat arseways.
Quote from: seafoid on February 25, 2022, 09:04:06 PM
It sounds as though the invasion has started to go somewhat arseways.
How so??
Brave stance by Zelensky. Putin is intent on killing him. I hope some of those Irish experts on Twitter who preinvasion went with the Putin neoNazi narrative have now copped on.
I haven't been reading the whole thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned before. Someone put a thing up on Facebook listing 40 or 50 things which made Ukraine a very very resource rich country. Just wondering if it was exaggerated. Some of their housing doesn't look that powerful but then there are poor areas in every country.
Ukraine has fallen behind economically, even behind Belarus and Moldova. All of this is not going to help.
If this doesn't go to plan for Putin and he is forced to abandon his plan will he get the death penalty for war crimes or crimes against humanity
Quote from: Nanderson on February 26, 2022, 08:33:09 AM
If this doesn't go to plan for Putin and he is forced to abandon his plan will he get the death penalty for war crimes or crimes against humanity
Nothing will happen to Putin. He will be sat in his palace in Russia until he dies which hopefully will be soon as his actions are probably of a dying man lashing out. The Russian people 150- million of them have sat back and let the elite shaft them and steal from them and they have done f@ck all so not likely to start now the cowards
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/25/vladimir-putin-poised-unleash-terrifying-new-weapon-battle-kyiv/
Western officials on Friday briefed their serious concern that Mr Putin would order the deployment of thermobaric weapons, which can reduce cities to rubble and would cause huge loss of life.
Thermobaric missiles contain a highly explosive fuel and chemical mix and send out supersonic blast waves that can rip buildings and bodies apart. Officials said their use would cause "indiscriminate violence".
The Russian Tos-1 Buratino weapons are understood to have crossed into Ukraine, although they have yet to be used. Moscow has previously employed them in Chechnya and Syria.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 08:57:35 AM
Quote from: Nanderson on February 26, 2022, 08:33:09 AM
If this doesn't go to plan for Putin and he is forced to abandon his plan will he get the death penalty for war crimes or crimes against humanity
Nothing will happen to Putin. He will be sat in his palace in Russia until he dies which hopefully will be soon as his actions are probably of a dying man lashing out. The Russian people 150- million of them have sat back and let the elite shaft them and steal from them and they have done f@ck all so not likely to start now the cowards
Thats not entirely fair. Over the years countless opposition figures and thousands of their supporters have been arrested and jailed. Over the last few days thousands of Russians have been protesting and thousands have been detained. I'd imagine the protests in Russia will crank up a few notches more if the number of casualties are to be believed and the body bags start coming home.
Quote from: HiMucker on February 26, 2022, 09:08:30 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 08:57:35 AM
Quote from: Nanderson on February 26, 2022, 08:33:09 AM
If this doesn't go to plan for Putin and he is forced to abandon his plan will he get the death penalty for war crimes or crimes against humanity
Nothing will happen to Putin. He will be sat in his palace in Russia until he dies which hopefully will be soon as his actions are probably of a dying man lashing out. The Russian people 150- million of them have sat back and let the elite shaft them and steal from them and they have done f@ck all so not likely to start now the cowards
Thats not entirely fair. Over the years countless opposition figures and thousands of their supporters have been arrested and jailed. Over the last few days thousands of Russians have been protesting and thousands have been detained. I'd imagine the protests in Russia will crank up a few notches more if the number of casualties are to be believed and the body bags start coming home.
Individuals are taking a massive risk by protesting against the regime. It needs a mass protest or movement that is too large to be thrown into police vans and disappeared for a while.
How many of the thoughts and prayers Facebook profile picture brigade would accept a hike in diesel prices if it meant sanctions on Russias energy sector?
https://www.ft.com/content/15cfa525-56fd-4fc1-a2c5-fdbdae70533a
Oleksandr Danylyuk, chair of the Kyiv-based Centre for Defence Reforms and an expert on hybrid warfare, said he believed that the Russians had not abandoned the idea of ousting Zelensky in a "false flag" coup.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2022, 11:14:06 AM
How many of the thoughts and prayers Facebook profile picture brigade would accept a hike in diesel prices if it meant sanctions on Russias energy sector?
Would you?
I think most people will accept sacrifices have to be made when they see what the Ukrainian people are being out through.
Unless society has gone completely off the edge with the selfish "me first/freedom" shite.
Quote from: J70 on February 26, 2022, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2022, 11:14:06 AM
How many of the thoughts and prayers Facebook profile picture brigade would accept a hike in diesel prices if it meant sanctions on Russias energy sector?
Would you?
I think most people will accept sacrifices have to be made when they see what the Ukrainian people are being out through.
Unless society has gone completely off the edge with the selfish "me first/freedom" shite.
Yea I probably would, but I can understand why some living month to month couldn't.
So where do we stop? What about all the wars going around the world at the minute and the hardships that it brings to people in those countries we don't see on the news
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2022, 02:39:44 PM
So where do we stop? What about all the wars going around the world at the minute and the hardships that it brings to people in those countries we don't see on the news
This is what is irritating me about it all. Why does this one matter more?
the hypocrisy of the west is sickening... little or no solidarity with the people of Iraq, Palestine, Yemen and Syria to name a few...
Palestinians and athletes who support them told not to mix politics and sports but we have Poland not playing Russia In soccer, finals moved.. in the arts Swan Lake cancelled and Russia out of the eurovision... within days...
where is the weapons, financial support and sanctions to help the palestinans.... they are labeled terrorists while the Ukrainians are hero's... Uk/US/Australia actively trying to prevent BDS
the media are playing their part too in echoing the government on the West hypocrisy... look at how bombs being fired by the US in Iraq were described compared to similar weaponry being fired by the Russians in Ukraine...
None of that takes away from how wrong Putin and Russia are but its hardly a surprise to see putin tey his luck when they see what the US/UK /Saudi/Israelis have been getting away with for years...
Irish government moving very fast to sanctions but the occupied territories bill is stalled...
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 26, 2022, 03:40:42 PM
the hypocrisy of the west is sickening... little or no solidarity with the people of Iraq, Palestine, Yemen and Syria to name a few...
Palestinians and athletes who support them told not to mix politics and sports but we have Poland not playing Russia In soccer, finals moved.. in the arts Swan Lake cancelled and Russia out of the eurovision... within days...
where is the weapons, financial support and sanctions to help the palestinans.... they are labeled terrorists while the Ukrainians are hero's... Uk/US/Australia actively trying to prevent BDS
the media are playing their part too in echoing the government on the West hypocrisy... look at how bombs being fired by the US in Iraq were described compared to similar weaponry being fired by the Russians in Ukraine...
None of that takes away from how wrong Putin and Russia are but its hardly a surprise to see putin tey his luck when they see what the US/UK /Saudi/Israelis have been getting away with for years...
Irish government moving very fast to sanctions but the occupied territories bill is stalled...
Absolutely. What Putin is doing is absolutely terrible but vanilla enough compared to whats been happening in Palestine and Yemen.
So much whataboutery that you's get a job in the Dup.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2022, 03:58:08 PM
So much whataboutery that you's get a job in the Dup.
if occupation is wrong it I'd as wrong in Ukraine as it is anywhere else..
if the answer to occupation is sanctions, financial and military support then its should be the answer everywhere...
these are the same issues not different issues but the response is very different.
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 04:17:12 PM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing
They climbed into the back of a lorry or aeroplane and were drove/flown somewhere and told to get out.
You'd be surprised at what you wouldn't know if you were operating under a communications blackout for weeks.
The officers should know where they are as they'd have objectives which obviously require targets.
But the poor privates and conscripts wouldn't have a feckin' clue.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2022, 03:58:08 PM
So much whataboutery that you's get a job in the Dup.
Wise up
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2022, 04:43:36 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 04:17:12 PM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing
They climbed into the back of a lorry or aeroplane and were drove/flown somewhere and told to get out.
You'd be surprised at what you wouldn't know if you were operating under a communications blackout for weeks.
The officers should know where they are as they'd have objectives which obviously require targets.
But the poor privates and conscripts wouldn't have a feckin' clue.
Yea they aren't sitting on social media all day long like the rest of us.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2022, 05:24:04 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2022, 04:43:36 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 04:17:12 PM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing
They climbed into the back of a lorry or aeroplane and were drove/flown somewhere and told to get out.
You'd be surprised at what you wouldn't know if you were operating under a communications blackout for weeks.
The officers should know where they are as they'd have objectives which obviously require targets.
But the poor privates and conscripts wouldn't have a feckin' clue.
Yea they aren't sitting on social media all day long like the rest of us.
If it was some rapid op then fine but they have literally been sat on the Ukraine border for months
It is kind of hard to believe that tbh though I was reading that too.
https://www.ft.com/content/073a37d5-4daf-49ed-b5bc-a4682ef1aa88?
The US is considering placing sanctions on the Russian central bank, in a move that would stop Moscow accessing its foreign reserves. The action by the Biden administration would be the harshest measure imposed on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, according to people familiar with the internal discussions.
You do this by freezing its reserves held with foreign central banks. Whatever foreign exchange reserves a central bank has, they reside on the balance sheet of the issuing central bank. For example, any dollars or euros owned by Russia's central bank are held in accounts with the Fed and ECB respectively. These CBs can then freeze these accounts, effectively preventing Russia's CB from using its reserves.
At the end of June 2020, the value of Russia's gold assets included in its international reserves surpassed the value of US dollar assets. The value of reserves totalled $561 billion as of end-June. Of that, about 30 % was held in euros, 23 % in gold and 22 % in US dollars. In the second quarter of 2018, the CBR shifted about 15 % of its foreign currency reserves into Chinese yuan (BOFIT Weekly 2019/03). By the end of June 2020, the yuan share of reserves had declined to about 12 %."
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/12552691/roman-abramovich-hands-chelsea-stewardship-to-clubs-charity-trust-following-russia-invasion-of-ukraine
https://www.ft.com/content/073a37d5-4daf-49ed-b5bc-a4682ef1aa88?
A G20 central bank has never been sanctioned before. This is not Iran. This is not Venezuela. So to shut off their central bank from the international financial system, or at least the dollar and euro economy, is a massively destabilising move potentially," said Lipsky. Edward Fishman, a former US official now at the Center for a New American Security, said it would present a "devastating blow" to the Russian economy that would eclipse the significance of a ban on Swift. "If you added the Russian central bank to the SDN list, it would be the single most impactful sanction that you could apply to Russia, and you could do it with a stroke of the pen," he said. "It would render a sizeable chunk of their foreign exchange reserves unusable overnight."
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2022, 05:24:04 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2022, 04:43:36 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 04:17:12 PM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing
They climbed into the back of a lorry or aeroplane and were drove/flown somewhere and told to get out.
You'd be surprised at what you wouldn't know if you were operating under a communications blackout for weeks.
The officers should know where they are as they'd have objectives which obviously require targets.
But the poor privates and conscripts wouldn't have a feckin' clue.
Yea they aren't sitting on social media all day long like the rest of us.
that's why this will fail Russians hearts are not in it ,!it will turn out to be putins downfall
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 26, 2022, 04:03:17 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2022, 03:58:08 PM
So much whataboutery that you's get a job in the Dup.
if occupation is wrong it I'd as wrong in Ukraine as it is anywhere else..
if the answer to occupation is sanctions, financial and military support then its should be the answer everywhere...
these are the same issues not different issues but the response is very different.
That's a bit simplistic. This is a nuclear power, while the western countries are nearby they do not want to escalate things so that the lunatic nukes somebody.
Any word on the Saudis ramping up oil production to drive the price down and bring the Russians to heel as they did 2 years ago?
Quote from: LeoMc on February 26, 2022, 09:55:50 PM
Any word on the Saudis ramping up oil production to drive the price down and bring the Russians to heel as they did 2 years ago?
The only thing the Saudis are ramping up is lethal attacks on innocent civilians in Yemen knowing it will not make the news. Same with Israel ramping up attacks on Damascus knowing Ukraine will steal all the headlines.
What's with the clowns with the old soviet flag getting their picture took at the Free Derry wall.
I know the Ukrainian President is going down a storm on social media and the like but is he not s bit of a crook ?
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 26, 2022, 10:59:39 PM
I know the Ukrainian President is going down a storm on social media and the like but is he not s bit of a crook ?
What have you read on social media?
He isn't even a politician.
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 26, 2022, 10:59:39 PM
I know the Ukrainian President is going down a storm on social media and the like but is he not s bit of a crook ?
Crooks and politicians.... I thought they were all crooks
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 26, 2022, 10:59:39 PM
I know the Ukrainian President is going down a storm on social media and the like but is he not s bit of a crook ?
No. He is the anti crook. One of the reasons he has to go.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 05:37:27 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2022, 05:24:04 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2022, 04:43:36 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 04:17:12 PM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing
They climbed into the back of a lorry or aeroplane and were drove/flown somewhere and told to get out.
You'd be surprised at what you wouldn't know if you were operating under a communications blackout for weeks.
The officers should know where they are as they'd have objectives which obviously require targets.
But the poor privates and conscripts wouldn't have a feckin' clue.
Yea they aren't sitting on social media all day long like the rest of us.
If it was some rapid op then fine but they have literally been sat on the Ukraine border for months
How would they know that though?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2022, 10:58:00 PM
What's with the clowns with the old soviet flag getting their picture took at the Free Derry wall.
IRSP - a socialist party supporting the imperialist war led by a deranged Russian nationalist...
Complete simpletons
Once upon a time there was a small group of communists in the H Block protest movement, who (in their alternate reality) preached about the glories of People's Socialist Republic of Albania, they were affectionately referred to as 'The Albanians'.
Zelenksy is an awful bollix. Great man for the social media but not much of a statesman. Reminds me a bit of Farage. A mefeiner.
Quote from: trileacman on February 27, 2022, 01:25:13 PM
Zelenksy is an awful bollix. Great man for the social media but not much of a statesman. Reminds me a bit of Farage. A mefeiner.
Is it the 1st April already? Seriously. Are you for real? Did you just compare Zelenksy with Farage?
Zelenksy whatever faults he had in the past is playing a blinder here. Leading from the front instead of running. Farage would be the first man out over women and children if he was in a similar position. He'd prob trample them into the ground to save his ass.
He's standing his Ground, I think in the same situation old Boris be in his nuclear bunker at this stage. If the Russians take Kiev it be the Siberian Gulag for him if he's that lucky.
Quote from: general_lee on February 27, 2022, 08:35:35 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2022, 10:58:00 PM
What's with the clowns with the old soviet flag getting their picture took at the Free Derry wall.
IRSP - a socialist party supporting the imperialist war led by a deranged Russian nationalist...
I wonder do they appreciate they are on the same side as America First. Go far enough left or right and they meet.
The irsp the so called good community good guys ohhh there so good there such good community good guys.
The irsp the socialists supporting oligarchs ohhh those socialists loving oligarchs the billionaire loving sociallists with their private yachts
The irsp now supporting the same guy that those qanon extremists are those qanon clowns think putin is a white christian saviour.
https://www.ft.com/content/d01db87b-1e5a-49dd-bc75-4014d91dbd12
Four days into the invasion and Russian troops have failed to win the quick victory that Putin was counting on. Ukrainian resistance is much fiercer than the Russian leader anticipated, as Ukraine's army fights back and the population mobilises. Captured Russian soldiers have been filmed complaining that they were told they were going on a training mission. The international response has also been tougher, more co-ordinated and united than Putin bargained for. Russia is being cut out of the global financial system. Most European airspace has been closed to Russian airlines. There has been a historic reversal in German foreign and security policy — with Berlin finally sending weaponry to Ukraine and pledging to spend more than 2 per cent of gross domestic product on defence. The Nato alliance has been given a new sense of purpose. Russia is turning into a pariah, with even China failing to back it at the UN — it abstained instead.
The Russians seem to have thought. They could just stroll on in but now they facing hard resistance number of factors overestimating their fighting ability and underestimating the ukranians its early days yet Russia still might break through and get the upper hand tho if does not happen soon putin may lash out and bring in heavy weapon including thermobaric weapons Putin has also put his nuclear deterrent on high alert.
Those MPs appear ready to martyr themselves in a shootout in Kiev. Russia will be left looking after 50 million angry Ukrainians. This is a historic mistake by Putin.
The english FA announce a boycott of all games v Russia. Did they have any such games on their calendar?
Lucky Ukraine is not a 3rd world country... if it wasn't it could be ignored like Syria, Afghanistan, Palestine, Yemen etc.
https://twitter.com/arwaib/status/1497999536324845573?t=l-e7KRbxhUUpQInAp9Q6AA&s=19
https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1497878168216252416?t=MIyvcN1bSiuTioZCljeKMw&s=19
https://twitter.com/jakobplaschke/status/1497376842541584384?t=JPybF4ZdVW5HJ130ven18A&s=19
https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1497718700547346433?t=xBzwe_B-k2su1qevmz8Prg&s=19
https://twitter.com/samijiries/status/1497605828941164546?t=3T2KN_fOwN-5EsgUnlnFXg&s=19
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2022, 07:09:34 PM
The english FA announce a boycott of all games v Russia. Did they have any such games on their calendar?
not but potentially the world cup
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 27, 2022, 07:15:07 PM
Lucky Ukraine is not a 3rd world country... if it wasn't it could be ignored like Syria, Afghanistan, Palestine, Yemen etc.
https://twitter.com/arwaib/status/1497999536324845573?t=l-e7KRbxhUUpQInAp9Q6AA&s=19
https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1497878168216252416?t=MIyvcN1bSiuTioZCljeKMw&s=19
https://twitter.com/jakobplaschke/status/1497376842541584384?t=JPybF4ZdVW5HJ130ven18A&s=19
https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1497718700547346433?t=xBzwe_B-k2su1qevmz8Prg&s=19
https://twitter.com/samijiries/status/1497605828941164546?t=3T2KN_fOwN-5EsgUnlnFXg&s=19
brexiteer types dont like any refugees
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 27, 2022, 07:15:07 PM
Lucky Ukraine is not a 3rd world country... if it wasn't it could be ignored like Syria, Afghanistan, Palestine, Yemen etc.
It is not on;y a question of economics, Syria was not a third world country and wasn't hugely less prosperous the Ukraine. Palestine likewise.
It is simply the case that you worry more about places on your own continent.
The Ukraine had Nuclear weapons themselves left over from the cold War, what happened them?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 27, 2022, 08:11:00 PM
The Ukraine had Nuclear weapons themselves left over from the cold War, what happened them?
They gave them up in turn for security agreements from the US and Russia. The only country in history to do so. Hindsight I hear you say....
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2022, 06:31:22 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/d01db87b-1e5a-49dd-bc75-4014d91dbd12
Four days into the invasion and Russian troops have failed to win the quick victory that Putin was counting on. Ukrainian resistance is much fiercer than the Russian leader anticipated, as Ukraine's army fights back and the population mobilises. Captured Russian soldiers have been filmed complaining that they were told they were going on a training mission. The international response has also been tougher, more co-ordinated and united than Putin bargained for. Russia is being cut out of the global financial system. Most European airspace has been closed to Russian airlines. There has been a historic reversal in German foreign and security policy — with Berlin finally sending weaponry to Ukraine and pledging to spend more than 2 per cent of gross domestic product on defence. The Nato alliance has been given a new sense of purpose. Russia is turning into a pariah, with even China failing to back it at the UN — it abstained instead.
Not sure about this. We know Russia could obliterate Ukraine within an hour if they wanted to.
There is brinkmanship going on here. The UN went as far as declaring war today, although they can't.
Guessing Putin at the minute is tough.
Quote from: general_lee on February 27, 2022, 08:35:35 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2022, 10:58:00 PM
What's with the clowns with the old soviet flag getting their picture took at the Free Derry wall.
IRSP - a socialist party supporting the imperialist war led by a deranged Russian nationalist...
Do you seriously think Putin is a Russian nationalist?!
Aye seen saoradh and irsp with USSR flags next to free Derry corner. It's a mixed up world
The EU, USA, Canada, Australia etc should just offer a visa to any Russian soldier that surrenders complete with his equipment.
Quote from: burdizzo on February 27, 2022, 10:59:41 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 27, 2022, 08:35:35 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2022, 10:58:00 PM
What's with the clowns with the old soviet flag getting their picture took at the Free Derry wall.
IRSP - a socialist party supporting the imperialist war led by a deranged Russian nationalist...
Do you seriously think Putin is a Russian nationalist?!
Well technically he is.
Technically? I suppose he uses nationalism as a justification, to an extent, but I would have thought Alexy Navalny - the lad they tried to poison and then threw in jail - was far more of a Russian nationalist? But we never hear about him since Amnesty decided he wasn't kosher.
Quote from: burdizzo on February 28, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
Technically? I suppose he uses nationalism as a justification, to an extent, but I would have thought Alexy Navalny - the lad they tried to poison and then threw in jail - was far more of a Russian nationalist? But we never hear about him since Amnesty decided he wasn't kosher.
Putin uses nationalism to an extent? quite an understatement there considering recent events :)
Navaly is regarded as a prisoner of conscience with AI. Why do you think Navalny was branded an enemy of the people/state, tortured and jailed in a show trial?
I thought they dumped him because he didn't love Islamic immigration?
https://www.ft.com/content/378eced2-d3a6-49cf-b07e-df0b388ee54b
"Putin's obsessed about Ukraine, and that has been visible for years," said the central European security official. "But if you look at [the demands Putin made of the west before invading], it's not just Ukraine. The second was effectively about rendering central and eastern Europe a buffer again."
i haven't commented much on this as it's more complex than a basic black, white, goodie and baddie type scenario and there have been Neo Nazi elements of the Ukranian Army that have attacked Ethnic Russians in Ukraine such as the Azov Regiment, well known for being Neo Nazi's...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion)
In saying that Putin is a cheek off the same arse, whose every bit as right wing as those he professes to be trying to rid Ukraine from, his confidant and advisor Aleksandr Dugin is a well known for his support for fascism;
https://medium.com/intelligence-challenged/putins-rasputin-the-dangerous-mind-of-aleksandr-dugin-d02290ba6045 (https://medium.com/intelligence-challenged/putins-rasputin-the-dangerous-mind-of-aleksandr-dugin-d02290ba6045)
In the meantime, the ordinary Joe Public will pay for their lives due to these deranged lunatics in positions of power.
Liz Truss should stick to talking about cheese.
Putins sticking points;
– recognition of Russian sovereignty over Crimea
– demilitarization and denazification of the Ukrainian state
– ensuring its neutral status
Hard to see the Ukrainians going for that.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 28, 2022, 03:57:59 PM
Putins sticking points;
– recognition of Russian sovereignty over Crimea
– demilitarization and denazification of the Ukrainian state
– ensuring its neutral status
Hard to see the Ukrainians going for that.
Crimea is never going back in to Ukrainian hands. Never ever going to happen. The people there overwhelmingly want Russian rule anyway. I think that is the easiest one on the list for them to concede. They should build that one up though as a massive concession.
Quote from: HiMucker on February 28, 2022, 04:21:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 28, 2022, 03:57:59 PM
Putins sticking points;
– recognition of Russian sovereignty over Crimea
– demilitarization and denazification of the Ukrainian state
– ensuring its neutral status
Hard to see the Ukrainians going for that.
Crimea is never going back in to Ukrainian hands. Never ever going to happen. The people there overwhelmingly want Russian rule anyway. I think that is the easiest one on the list for them to concede. They should build that one up though as a massive concession.
Crimea should be in return for land of equivalent value on the Black Sea coast of Russia
https://www.ft.com/content/434d2077-5c29-4178-8a45-e543b3687d77
"Their attacking approach didn't play to Russian tactics in the beginning [of the war] so the obvious recourse is fall back to a strategy that does work," said Henry Boyd, a military expert at the International institute for Strategic Studies. "Kharkiv is already taking military barrages." Analysts and officials have been warning that Russia's setbacks, while spurring Ukrainian resistance, increased the chance of heavy bombardment and possibly assaults using thermobaric weapons, which use oxygen from the surrounding air to generate an intense, high-temperature explosion. Social media posts on Monday also appeared to show TOS-1 heavy flame throwers positioned outside the besieged southern city of Mariupol.
We've all heard the story ref. never cornering a rat ... in the same way, the west needs to be careful to allow Putin a way out, otherwise we might all face the fallout from what he could do next, and that fallout could be nuclear in nature. We've heard it all before, 'Putin won't do this, he would never do that' ... up until now, he was went on and done most of those things said he would never do ... a full on invasion of Ukraine, taking Crimea as his own ... he knows no boundaries, and it is best that he is not cornered whatever way this plays out.
Putin doesn't seem to have the Russian public with him on this crusade, and maybe not the full might of the military either.
I wonder if anyone in the upper echelons of Russian military have the balls to take Putin down. How does Putin prevent a military coup in Russia should he order a nuclear strike?
I would feel the same about cornering and all the countries giving arms to Ukraine is not going to help but what do you do. The man is insane. I almost wonder would someone from within stop him too. We can only hope :(
So truss was the one who made him play the nuclear card. Is there no end to the damage tories do >:(
Why he need a buffer zone anyway, who in his imaginary head going to attack Russia. Its not as if the old german 🇩🇪 blitzkrieg war machine up and running. And I safety sau there more neo nazis in Russia than Ukraine judging by their football supporters.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2022, 09:43:29 PM
I would feel the same about cornering and all the countries giving arms to Ukraine is not going to help but what do you do. The man is insane. I almost wonder would someone from within stop him too. We can only hope :(
So truss was the one who made him play the nuclear card. Is there no end to the damage tories do >:(
I am surprised USA hasn't given Ukraine a Iron Dome missile system or THAAD missile defence system which Israel and South Korea have. Also have the Russian not learnt from the invasion of Afghanistan in the 80's??
https://twitter.com/i/status/1498371877726613504 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1498371877726613504)
Part 2
https://twitter.com/i/status/1498372359568470020 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1498372359568470020)
Noam Chomsky on how we got here
Ukraine will be reconstructed real nice when all of this is over. There will be loads of work for plasterers.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2022, 08:17:25 AM
Ukraine will be reconstructed real nice when all of this is over. There will be loads of work for plasterers.
What an utterly bizarre and insensitive statement.
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 09:24:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2022, 08:17:25 AM
Ukraine will be reconstructed real nice when all of this is over. There will be loads of work for plasterers.
What an utterly bizarre and insensitive statement.
Sure it's only a cultural war.
The global far right see putin as their leader
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/vladimir-putin-ukraine-attack-antisemitism-denazify
Who is next? This isn't going to stop at Ukraine.
Putin wants a buffer zone.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2022, 11:04:33 AM
Who is next? This isn't going to stop at Ukraine.
Putin wants a buffer zone.
Problem is he has nowhere to go now that isn't EU or NATO.
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
Quote from: Eire90 on March 01, 2022, 10:58:02 AM
The global far right see putin as their leader
Complete rubbish.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
They are legally obligated to
Quote from: smort on March 01, 2022, 12:54:07 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
They are legally obligated to
Again - And .... - they certainly won't.
He will take Moldova as well as they are not part of Nato, are land locked, poor economy and Russia already has a break away state established here.
After that who knows
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
They would go after him for sure - they have to.
Putin knows this which is why he wont attack countries in NATO.
Sanctions are fine for them - they dont have to get their hands dirty.
While Ukraine is holding firm at the moment unfortunately I dont think this will last for much longer unless they get military help (not just being given weapons).
Putin will soon be in control of Ukraine - there will still be elements fighting against him but once he gains control what next for him?
Hard to see the end goal
Quote from: Taylor on March 01, 2022, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
They would go after him for sure - they have to.
Putin knows this which is why he wont attack countries in NATO.
Sanctions are fine for them - they dont have to get their hands dirty.
While Ukraine is holding firm at the moment unfortunately I dont think this will last for much longer unless they get military help (not just being given weapons).
Putin will soon be in control of Ukraine - there will still be elements fighting against him but once he gains control what next for him?
Hard to see the end goal
Yes there has definitely been an escalation in use of missiles and cluster bombs as well as convoys of Chechen headers so it must only be a matter of "when" not "if" they are overrun. He'll want to push ahead aggressively by any means necessary rather than drag it out. If he achieves it without NATO laying a glove on him then he coule certainly look at other land grabs.
Quote from: Taylor on March 01, 2022, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
They would go after him for sure - they have to.
Putin knows this which is why he wont attack countries in NATO.
Sanctions are fine for them - they dont have to get their hands dirty.
While Ukraine is holding firm at the moment unfortunately I dont think this will last for much longer unless they get military help (not just being given weapons).
Putin will soon be in control of Ukraine - there will still be elements fighting against him but once he gains control what next for him?
Hard to see the end goal
But I thought Trump said last week that it was a genius move!
Quote from: smort on March 01, 2022, 12:51:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
They are
With Belarus in lockstep with Russia the only thing linking the Baltic states to the rest of Europe is a 65km stretch of border with Poland called the Suwalki corridor.
https://www.ft.com/content/e51014c3-0b97-4a3d-8a19-bc49b3ccd042
Volodymyr Zelensky, Ukraine's president, accused Russia of war crimes after a missile hit the centre of Kharkiv in one of the most destructive attacks on a densely populated urban area since Moscow launched its military offensive. Stung by five days of unexpectedly slow progress, Russia has shifted its approach, pouring more troops and armour into Ukraine and stepping up its use of artillery and other unguided weapons on cities including Kharkiv, Chernihiv, and Kherson.
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:56:46 PM
Quote from: smort on March 01, 2022, 12:54:07 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
They are legally obligated to
Again - And .... - they certainly won't.
The whole concept of NATO is built around Article V, I'm not sure how they could justify ignoring it if it was invoked.
can putin keep control in ukraine with the numbers he has without committing a genocide and do they expect people to just listen to a new leader
500k people have fled the Ukraine. What's the population - 41 million plus? I don't see how there is not mass genocide going to happen here if it hasn't already :(
Quote from: Eire90 on March 01, 2022, 01:57:08 PM
can putin keep control in ukraine with the numbers he has without committing a genocide and do they expect people to just listen to a new leader
No chance. Irrespective of the immorality of it all, it already looks like political suicide. Doomed to failure. Most certainly not the genius that Trump hailed him as last week.
He will have spawned generations of resentment and hatred from Ukrainians over the illegitimate invasion of their own nation. How could he have miscalculated that they would roll over and have their tummies tickled or did he learn nothing from history.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 01, 2022, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:56:46 PM
Quote from: smort on March 01, 2022, 12:54:07 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
They are legally obligated to
Again - And .... - they certainly won't.
The whole concept of NATO is built around Article V, I'm not sure how they could justify ignoring it if it was invoked.
Certain WW111 - would the American public and politicians justify this because a country 8000km away was being invaded.
Article V assumes respect for the rule of law and sovereignty which Putin has just trashed. Putin is using the threat of nuclear war to hold off the West and get his way. The international order is broken.
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 02:28:00 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 01, 2022, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:56:46 PM
Quote from: smort on March 01, 2022, 12:54:07 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
They are legally obligated to
Again - And .... - they certainly won't.
The whole concept of NATO is built around Article V, I'm not sure how they could justify ignoring it if it was invoked.
Certain WW111 - would the American public and politicians justify this because a country 8000km away was being invaded.
America is a completely divided society so there will never be unanimity on the correct approach. However if NATO failed to take military action against an invasion of one of their own member states, then their credibility would be on the floor.
The far right in America will cling to whatever they are being told by Fox News and Trump. Up until recent days they were inclined to side with Putin's genius over their own administration such is their disdain for the Democrats and what they deem as an illegitimate president. Trump and his political cronies will only be convinced to turn against Putin if it is in their own self interest to do so. That will likely happen once it becomes evident that Putin is a beaten docket or public opinion has turned against him so much that it is no longer expedient to cosy up to him. Trump will not want to be on the losing side again and will attempt to change the narrative accordingly to suit.
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?
He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 01, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?
He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.
It's more likely to be some of the other powerful oligarchs who've been hit with serious sanctions who group together to move against him. The problem is most of those have got where they are because they are very loyal to him. Any hint of disloyalty from them and they know how ruthless Putin is so they have to tread carefully. You can be sure that at the moment Putin is completely paranoid and more than likely trusts no one.
This is playing out a little like ancient Rome. Caesar needs taken out by one of his own. Money and power will likely trump loyalty at some point.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 01, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?
He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.
Ordinary Russians will end up paying the price economically and a mass insurrection may be likelier than many predict. You could well be right in that it may take something like this to remove his hands from the levers of power. War crimes being committed in their name and being treated as a pariah state with no allies will not sit well with ordinary folk. That is the best case scenario.
The worst case scenario does not bear thinking about.
Exactly to the latter. I just don't know how this is going to end but it's not going to end well :(
Quote from: yellowcard on March 01, 2022, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 01, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?
He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.
Ordinary Russians will end up paying the price economically and a mass insurrection may be likelier than many predict. You could well be right in that it may take something like this to remove his hands from the levers of power. War crimes being committed in their name and being treated as a pariah state with no allies will not sit well with ordinary folk. That is the best case scenario.
The worst case scenario does not bear thinking about.
I agree, however the ordinary folk in Russia have zero say - you could see that with the response to protests in Russia last week - just arrest them.
And then commentators saying how brave they were to simply go out on the street and have a peaceful protest about the Ukranian invasion - imagine the outcome if there was anything stronger than a peaceful protest.
If Putin was taken out would this all be over?
The Russians have a good track record of ruthlessly removing their leaders when it suits.
Quote from: Taylor on March 01, 2022, 04:19:40 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on March 01, 2022, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 01, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?
He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.
Ordinary Russians will end up paying the price economically and a mass insurrection may be likelier than many predict. You could well be right in that it may take something like this to remove his hands from the levers of power. War crimes being committed in their name and being treated as a pariah state with no allies will not sit well with ordinary folk. That is the best case scenario.
The worst case scenario does not bear thinking about.
I agree, however the ordinary folk in Russia have zero say - you could see that with the response to protests in Russia last week - just arrest them.
And then commentators saying how brave they were to simply go out on the street and have a peaceful protest about the Ukranian invasion - imagine the outcome if there was anything stronger than a peaceful protest.
If Putin was taken out would this all be over?
I think it would depend on just how intolerable life became for ordinary Russian folk. If Putin engages in a long protracted war whereby the Russian economy enters hyper inflation, the army suffers sizable losses, mass poverty kicks in at home due to ongoing sanctions and they lose all semblance of contact with the outside world, then their anger will have to be directed somewhere. Things will need to get a whole lot worse within Russia before peaceful protest translates into mass insurrection but nobody can predict the future with any great certainty. All it takes is some other unforeseen event to change the narrative entirely so it would be foolish to rule anything out at this stage.
Like a NATO no fly zone ??? I wonder is that coming and is it effectively then WW3.
https://www.ft.com/content/e32aaff8-af24-46e1-8c7c-2a7d09387e45
China signalled it was ready to play a role in finding a ceasefire in Ukraine as it "deplored" the outbreak of conflict in its strongest comments yet on the war.
I see buffer zone mentioned, Excately a buffer zone from who? Missiles, Jets and heavy bombers make buffers zones redundant. Its not a rerun of world war 2 here where the biggest tank and best fighter plane was king. 2
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 01, 2022, 05:29:08 PM
I see buffer zone mentioned, Excately a buffer zone from who? Missiles, Jets and heavy bombers make buffers zones redundant. Its not a rerun of world war 2 here where the biggest tank and best fighter plane was king. 2
I'd say it's gonna be something like the DMZ between north and south Vietnam during the war but your right it didn't stop the USA sending b52s to Hanoi.
https://twitter.com/danict89/status/1498726365159374849?s=21
Quote from: yellowcard on March 01, 2022, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 01, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?
He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.
Ordinary Russians will end up paying the price economically and a mass insurrection may be likelier than many predict.
Food prices rising and mortgage interest gone to 20%!!
Quote from: Rossfan on March 01, 2022, 06:43:57 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on March 01, 2022, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 01, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?
He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.
Ordinary Russians will end up paying the price economically and a mass insurrection may be likelier than many predict.
Food prices rising and mortgage interest gone to 20%!!
But the state controlled media will blame the west and the anger will be directed there, unless China has a word nothing will change the Yanks are not going to do anything nor will NATO and no one will topple him.
Quote from: HiMucker on March 01, 2022, 06:40:52 PM
https://twitter.com/danict89/status/1498726365159374849?s=21
Holy f**k! See the shock wave? :o
Don't even want to imagine the damage that did.
Listening to NY Times The Daily podcast today.
Interviews with young Ukrainian men who were not allowed to leave as all men 18-60 have to stay and fight.
Just regular people, regular jobs. One hoping to work for Pixar one day. One said he'd been making plans to go buy some PlayStation games this weekend. Ordinary stuff we all do.
One of them even upset about the fact that he may have to kill Russian lads just like himself.
And now they're forced to take up arms and fight for their homeland due to a corrupt, deranged dictator.
So from what I gather today:
- Ukrainian drones are doing a serious number on Russian armour. If they can get more bombs and missiles for their TB2s; that big column (or rather, column of columns - its nothing like a continuous 40 miles) approaching Kyev could arrive in a bit of a shambles.
- Russia do not have air superiority and are now tending to operate more at night.
- Ukraine are now going to be receiving full satellite support from the EU, potentially others; giving them a major real-time information boost. This will include satellite radar feeds; somewhat countering the Russian move toward the cover of darkness.
- Russia appear to have used at least one thermobaric bomb; there is a twitter video of it going off; the blast is fairly identifiable.
- Russian state of logistics is a big unknown, apparently numerous tanks etc already ran out of fuel. No doubt others will be restricted in their maneouvres due to fuel concerns. If the Ukrainians can choke off enough of the logistical train, they'll win.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2022, 09:55:06 PM
So from what I gather today:
- Ukrainian drones are doing a serious number on Russian armour. If they can get more bombs and missiles for their TB2s; that big column (or rather, column of columns - its nothing like a continuous 40 miles) approaching Kyev could arrive in a bit of a shambles.
- Russia do not have air superiority and are now tending to operate more at night.
- Ukraine are now going to be receiving full satellite support from the EU, potentially others; giving them a major real-time information boost. This will include satellite radar feeds; somewhat countering the Russian move toward the cover of darkness.
- Russia appear to have used at least one thermobaric bomb; there is a twitter video of it going off; the blast is fairly identifiable.
- Russian state of logistics is a big unknown, apparently numerous tanks etc already ran out of fuel. No doubt others will be restricted in their maneouvres due to fuel concerns. If the Ukrainians can choke off enough of the logistical train, they'll win.
Where u get all this info????
Reads to me like Ukrainian propaganda, unfortunately
Quote from: thewobbler on March 01, 2022, 11:17:07 PM
Reads to me like Ukrainian propaganda, unfortunately
Id agree. Dont have to tip too far into twitter to read that Russia are happy enough with progress/only gettin started..
To be fair that convoy looks like a sitting duck. Even 100 yr old artillery would do it some major damage so surprised it seems to be inching closer and closer to kiev esp when the ukranians have taken out a number of smaller convoys very successfully
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 01, 2022, 11:40:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 01, 2022, 11:17:07 PM
Reads to me like Ukrainian propaganda, unfortunately
Id agree. Dont have to tip too far into twitter to read that Russia are happy enough with progress/only gettin started..
Its quite clear that Russia have made a complete f**king mess of this so far. They will eventually prevail but at what cost and when i say prevail ie install a puppet leader who will have no control over the population so a big waste of time.
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.
I was reading the blacks last thing there - shocking.
There is a real information war at play here. It's hard to know what to believe any more. I am not convinced Russia are making the progress they want but the reality is it is only a matter of time.
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 07:44:30 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.
Source?
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 02, 2022, 08:09:09 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 07:44:30 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.
Source?
You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Quote from: WT4E on March 01, 2022, 11:09:41 PM
Where u get all this info????
edit: Ahh, sorry, I thought you were only looking about the air superiority bit.
Things I've just picked up with a look around the interwebz
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/01/russian-air-force-struggling-to-claim-total-superiority-experts-say-a76694
Quote from: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 02, 2022, 08:09:09 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 07:44:30 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.
Source?
You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
here is the source
https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1498322098242134018?t=DhNQiEA0TgD7siUYigsNvg&s=19
note the change in the original post by BBC and what it is now.. "very mean"
https://twitter.com/freedomrideblog/status/1498517917998137345?t=LVAVNgY-3I3ZlOPaELk63A&s=19
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2022, 09:55:06 PM
So from what I gather today:
- Ukrainian drones are doing a serious number on Russian armour. If they can get more bombs and missiles for their TB2s; that big column (or rather, column of columns - its nothing like a continuous 40 miles) approaching Kyev could arrive in a bit of a shambles.
- Russia do not have air superiority and are now tending to operate more at night.
- Ukraine are now going to be receiving full satellite support from the EU, potentially others; giving them a major real-time information boost. This will include satellite radar feeds; somewhat countering the Russian move toward the cover of darkness.
- Russia appear to have used at least one thermobaric bomb; there is a twitter video of it going off; the blast is fairly identifiable.
- Russian state of logistics is a big unknown, apparently numerous tanks etc already ran out of fuel. No doubt others will be restricted in their maneouvres due to fuel concerns. If the Ukrainians can choke off enough of the logistical train, they'll win.
These statements after two of Russias biggest bombings from the air during the day???
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
What message does that send to the other smaller countries in NATO if the Brits/Americans abandon Estonia or some other Nato member? Hard to know if Putin would have the balls to call NATO's bluff by attacking a member. The thing could totally spiral very quickly as soon as he does. Moldova a likely next target as they aren't in NATO.
I'd say the right wing extremist gobsh1tes in Government in Hungary and Poland are now happy to be in the EU !
Russia got bogged down so is now bombing the shit out of everything. I wonder when the first attacks in Russia will.startm
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2022, 10:07:30 AM
Russia got bogged down so is now bombing the shit out of everything. I wonder when the first attacks in Russia will.startm
I doubt there will be much happening in Russia for now as all focus is on defending Ukraine but once Russia have a 'puppet' in control I would expect all sorts of guerilla attacks in Ukraine and Russia. Russia has millions of Ukrainians living there. It could get very messy which makes you think Putin has put zero thought into this.
Quote from: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 02, 2022, 08:09:09 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 07:44:30 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.
Source?
You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Good man. Maybe get your news from somewhere other than BBC or RTE. Clampet
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 11:42:01 AM
Quote from: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 02, 2022, 08:09:09 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 07:44:30 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.
Source?
You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Good man. Maybe get your news from somewhere other than BBC or RTE. Clampet
Yeah because some tool like yourself with an agenda will be spot on.
BBC/CNN/Aljazeera reporting African and Caribbean students (studying in Ukraine) not being allowed or delayed at borders out of Ukraine. Claiming Racism.
Quote from: WT4E on March 02, 2022, 09:31:04 AM
These statements after two of Russias biggest bombings from the air during the day???
If they cannot stop the Ukrainian drones do they have air superiority?
rumours that russia may want to install vickor yanokovich as puppet leader the guy that was kicked out and fled to russia in 2014.
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2022, 12:24:34 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on March 02, 2022, 12:16:18 PM
Who cares? As if preference for your own kind is the worst thing going on here. Get a grip.
Wow.
The 0.8% spouting their usual "Christian" hate.
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...
here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...
here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can't condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
Racism/separation under the banner of border controls are institutionalised procedures at every european country's point of entry.
What's curious here is that in a country under a state of war, hierarchies of race are amplified, with appalling results.
Quote from: LeoMc on March 02, 2022, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...
here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can't condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 02, 2022, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...
here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can't condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace. I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly) and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.
Scary to think that russian people now can't buy anything online, all visa, mastercard, apple pay etc has been blocked for them. Cash is and always will be king.
Quote from: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 11:42:01 AM
Quote from: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 02, 2022, 08:09:09 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 07:44:30 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.
Source?
You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Good man. Maybe get your news from somewhere other than BBC or RTE. Clampet
Yeah because some tool like yourself with an agenda will be spot on.
And what's my agenda? You wouldn't happen to know anyone called Sid?
Quote from: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 01:57:09 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 02, 2022, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...
here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can't condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace. I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly) and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.
that is not what they said... more weapons more death... they provided examples of Afganistan and Liyba...
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 02, 2022, 12:06:18 PM
BBC/CNN/Aljazeera reporting African and Caribbean students (studying in Ukraine) not being allowed or delayed at borders out of Ukraine. Claiming Racism.
lots of rumors coming out of Ukraine, not much verified, the usual suckers are all over it .
Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2022, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 02, 2022, 12:06:18 PM
BBC/CNN/Aljazeera reporting African and Caribbean students (studying in Ukraine) not being allowed or delayed at borders out of Ukraine. Claiming Racism.
lots of rumors coming out of Ukraine, not much verified, the usual suckers are all over it .
Including the Nigerian president.
(I've no idea if that lends credibility or not).
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 02, 2022, 03:28:08 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.
That's why it's better to stay neutral.
I wouldn't go that far - this thing looks like a massacre right in front of our eyes :(
On that note there's so much about NATO and "the west" and this has been the plan all along too. An awful load of misinformation everywhere you look.
Good thread on Twitter
https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1498491107902062592?s=21
Quote from: clarshack on March 02, 2022, 03:31:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 02, 2022, 03:28:08 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.
That's why it's better to stay neutral.
What is absolutely clear is that Putin took it upon himself to invade a peaceful, democratic country and murder its people.
There's no neutral position on that.
This explains (by folks far better versed in realpolitik than me) better than I ever did my point about Putin's state of mind.
Of course, yer man since departed wouldn't entertain it.
https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1498491107902062592?s=21
edit: Better put this here for those that will jump on it.
I am not condoning in any way shape or form the actions of Putin. Its deplorable and I wish a Russian general or advisor would step up to the plate and put a 9mm in his head for the good of everyone, Russian, Ukrainian and otherwise.
I'm explaining the state of mind and how we've got to this point.
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2022, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2022, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 02, 2022, 12:06:18 PM
BBC/CNN/Aljazeera reporting African and Caribbean students (studying in Ukraine) not being allowed or delayed at borders out of Ukraine. Claiming Racism.
lots of rumors coming out of Ukraine, not much verified, the usual suckers are all over it .
Including the Nigerian president.
(I've no idea if that lends credibility or not).
Nigeria signed a military agreement with Russia last year regarding training and selling equipment so they are probably compromised too.lots of propaganda everywhere.
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 02:43:01 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 11:42:01 AM
Quote from: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 02, 2022, 08:09:09 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 07:44:30 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.
Source?
You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Good man. Maybe get your news from somewhere other than BBC or RTE. Clampet
Yeah because some tool like yourself with an agenda will be spot on.
And what's my agenda? You wouldn't happen to know anyone called Sid?
Wouldn't know or care, what I do know is you can't read.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2022, 03:53:10 PM
This explains (by folks far better versed in realpolitik than me) better than I ever did my point about Putin's state of mind.
Of course, yer man since departed wouldn't entertain it.
https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1498491107902062592?s=21
edit: Better put this here for those that will jump on it.
I am not condoning in any way shape or form the actions of Putin. Its deplorable and I wish a Russian general or advisor would step up to the plate and put a 9mm in his head for the good of everyone, Russian, Ukrainian and otherwise.
I'm explaining the state of mind and how we've got to this point.
Those snippets are very interesting and informative, for sure, in terms of how those people predicted Russia could react to NATO expansion.
However, surely the Ukrainians have to get a say in what their country does in terms of international alignments and memberships?
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2022, 03:48:27 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 02, 2022, 03:31:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 02, 2022, 03:28:08 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.
That's why it's better to stay neutral.
What is absolutely clear is that Putin took it upon himself to invade a peaceful, democratic country and murder its people.
There's no neutral position on that.
This is not a case of "one side is as bad as the other", just as you often hear about the 6 counties. Whatever points of detail may be unclear, one country invaded a smaller one and killed thousands of its civilians, and you cannot be neutral about that.
Neutral, oh let me, see, a large neighbour invades another, refuses to give it up, sound familiar. Oh yes forgot thats Ireland. So a section of the country wants to stay with its large Neighbour as the majority in that area are aligned to them. Oh yes see Protestant majority and formation of Northern Ireland. And we not backing Ukraine losing parts of their country. Makes Chris Hazzard stance a tad stupid. And them idiots waving soviet flags in Derry.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2022, 02:29:22 PM
Scary to think that russian people now can't buy anything online, all visa, mastercard, apple pay etc has been blocked for them. Cash is and always will be king.
Just wait till you hear about what happened the Rouble
Problem as anywhere, is not the Russian people in general, they fed the state line like China,North Korea, in a way, they programmed to the govt way of thinking. Look at some of the shit Trump spouted and got 60million people to vote for him. Communism abit like the Borg in Star Trek, you be assimilated.
They're cutting the news to ordinary Russian folk to try and pretend there is no war. Also, and this comes directly from Russians my wife works with, they are lifting people on the street and making sure that even if they aren't protesting they aren't going to and beating the crap out of them.
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2022/03/02/statement-from-roman-abramovich
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 02:48:54 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 01:57:09 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 02, 2022, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...
here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can't condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace. I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly) and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.
that is not what they said... more weapons more death... they provided examples of Afganistan and Liyba...
It is you who has not read that part of their statement with any degree of accuracy. Instead you interpreted what they wrote.
Mick & Claire,
"the policy of flooding Ukraine with weapons will lead to a permanent condition of conflict"I wrote that Mick & Claire
"also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict"
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2022, 03:48:27 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 02, 2022, 03:31:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 02, 2022, 03:28:08 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.
That's why it's better to stay neutral.
What is absolutely clear is that Putin took it upon himself to invade a peaceful, democratic country and murder its people.
There's no neutral position on that.
Even Switzerland has come out of a comatose neutrality and has taken a principled stand
Quote from: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 08:31:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 02:48:54 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 01:57:09 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 02, 2022, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...
here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can't condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace. I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly) and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.
that is not what they said... more weapons more death... they provided examples of Afganistan and Liyba...
It is you who has not read that part of their statement with any degree of accuracy. Instead you interpreted what they wrote.
Mick & Claire, "the policy of flooding Ukraine with weapons will lead to a permanent condition of conflict"
I wrote that Mick & Claire "also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict"
they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace. I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly) and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.
Read the first 4 lines,
Quote from: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 08:37:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2022, 03:48:27 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 02, 2022, 03:31:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 02, 2022, 03:28:08 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.
That's why it's better to stay neutral.
What is absolutely clear is that Putin took it upon himself to invade a peaceful, democratic country and murder its people.
There's no neutral position on that.
Even Switzerland has come out of a comatose neutrality and has taken a principled stand
there is no principled stance when Palestine, Yemen, Syria, afganistan and others suffered or are suffering from conflicts with little or no support from the international community...
Quote from: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 05:42:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 02:43:01 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 11:46:29 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 11:42:01 AM
Quote from: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 02, 2022, 08:09:09 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 07:44:30 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.
Source?
You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Good man. Maybe get your news from somewhere other than BBC or RTE. Clampet
Yeah because some tool like yourself with an agenda will be spot on.
And what's my agenda? You wouldn't happen to know anyone called Sid?
Wouldn't know or care, what I do know is you can't read.
Eh, ok.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 08:39:51 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 08:31:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 02:48:54 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 01:57:09 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 02, 2022, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...
here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can't condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace. I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly) and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.
that is not what they said... more weapons more death... they provided examples of Afganistan and Liyba...
It is you who has not read that part of their statement with any degree of accuracy. Instead you interpreted what they wrote.
Mick & Claire, "the policy of flooding Ukraine with weapons will lead to a permanent condition of conflict"
I wrote that Mick & Claire "also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict"
they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace. I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly) and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.
Read the first 4 lines,
what I wrote afterwards was prefaced by "I interpret that".
You're all over the place with no focus, no accuracy and shifting arguments.
A perfect candidate for the ignore list.
Nolan watching too much of the film wargames. Shit stirring at it's worst. Am old enough to remember the cold War in the 80's
https://www.ft.com/content/cfcfb51f-be3b-4eae-a922-948e89e12610
Roman Abramovich has put Chelsea football club up for sale after 19 years of ownership, waiving £1.5bn it owes him and pledging to donate proceeds of the sale to victims of the war in Ukraine.
Abramovich's Fordstam
entity, through which he owns Chelsea, has accumulated losses of almost £1.1bn through June 2021. Fordstam has close to £1.5bn in debt in the form of loans from Abramovich.
:)
Quote from: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 10:45:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 08:39:51 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 08:31:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 02:48:54 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 01:57:09 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 02, 2022, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: naka on March 02, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...
here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can't condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace. I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly) and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.
that is not what they said... more weapons more death... they provided examples of Afganistan and Liyba...
It is you who has not read that part of their statement with any degree of accuracy. Instead you interpreted what they wrote.
Mick & Claire, "the policy of flooding Ukraine with weapons will lead to a permanent condition of conflict"
I wrote that Mick & Claire "also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict"
they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace. I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly) and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.
Read the first 4 lines,
what I wrote afterwards was prefaced by "I interpret that".
You're all over the place with no focus, no accuracy and shifting arguments.
A perfect candidate for the ignore list.
OK I'll Try and be clearer, for someone who can interrupt what you did despite what wallace and daly wrote in their first paragraph im not surprised you have trouble interrupting me...
more weapons is more death, they are promoting peace with (in their 1st paragraph) stating that Russia immediately terminate all military activity in Ukraine and unconditional withdrawal from Ukraine... there is no call for ukraine to surrender, it is not that resistence is futile... war is... only the weapons industry wins.. don't put gasoline on the fire... your interpretation is the only thing all over the place .
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2022, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2022, 03:53:10 PM
This explains (by folks far better versed in realpolitik than me) better than I ever did my point about Putin's state of mind.
Of course, yer man since departed wouldn't entertain it.
https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1498491107902062592?s=21
edit: Better put this here for those that will jump on it.
I am not condoning in any way shape or form the actions of Putin. Its deplorable and I wish a Russian general or advisor would step up to the plate and put a 9mm in his head for the good of everyone, Russian, Ukrainian and otherwise.
I'm explaining the state of mind and how we've got to this point.
Those snippets are very interesting and informative, for sure, in terms of how those people predicted Russia could react to NATO expansion.
However, surely the Ukrainians have to get a say in what their country does in terms of international alignments and memberships?
During the collapse of the Berlin Wall and the subsequent breakup of the Soviet union under Mikhail Gorbachev Noam Chomskey talked of this as far back as 2014 or 2015 that the agreement reached then was that NATO would not go any further East than the new Germany.
The western power brokers have pushed and pushed these boundaries for decades and whilst yes, its up to each sovereign state to make it's own decisions, do you honestly think if Mexico came to an agreement with the Russians to place missiles on Mexican soil that there wouldn't be some sort of similar pushback from the US considering what they're still doing to a small Caribbean island that didn't want its resources stripped bare by US conglomerates..
Putin is a power hungry animal, but he's been backed into a corner and the Ukrainians are getting the brunt of this East-West power battle.
There is no doubt some aspect of NATO at play here but it's the ukranians that have suffered and will continue to suffer for a very long time and Putin has displayed himself to be a complete madman(we knew he was just not how much) as well with a war that doesn't even *appear* to be backed by his own country.
Another good Twitter thread https://twitter.com/lunarssr/status/1498886454285463555?s=21
This has nothing to do with the Western expansion as Russia is spouting, it is all to do with Putin and his desire to return to the old Soviet era borders and level of control.
The placement of any missiles/ military along Russia's borders means nothing when multiple countries have the capabilities to strike any city in Russia from pretty much anywhere. So that argument does not stack up.
I dont see any end game here for either side.
Quote from: general_lee on March 03, 2022, 09:00:35 AM
Another good Twitter thread https://twitter.com/lunarssr/status/1498886454285463555?s=21
Read that thread an makes sense but where are the people of the East in Ukraine celebrating being liberated? Aren't they happy or maybe the news we get is not showing that?
Quote from: WT4E on March 03, 2022, 09:21:22 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 03, 2022, 09:00:35 AM
Another good Twitter thread https://twitter.com/lunarssr/status/1498886454285463555?s=21
Read that thread an makes sense but where are the people of the East in Ukraine celebrating being liberated? Aren't they happy or maybe the news we get is not showing that?
The thread kind of ignores what the majority of people of Ukraine want now. Crimea was overwhelming pro russian but had a sizeable ukranian minority which the author conveniently ignored. Its annex has some quite strong parallells to the sick counties
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2022, 08:55:07 AM
There is no doubt some aspect of NATO at play here but it's the ukranians that have suffered and will continue to suffer for a very long time and Putin has displayed himself to be a complete madman(we knew he was just not how much) as well with a war that doesn't even *appear* to be backed by his own country.
Blair took the UK into Iraq and there were huge demonstrations against it in London. Didn't stop him though.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 08:28:42 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2022, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2022, 03:53:10 PM
This explains (by folks far better versed in realpolitik than me) better than I ever did my point about Putin's state of mind.
Of course, yer man since departed wouldn't entertain it.
https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1498491107902062592?s=21
edit: Better put this here for those that will jump on it.
I am not condoning in any way shape or form the actions of Putin. Its deplorable and I wish a Russian general or advisor would step up to the plate and put a 9mm in his head for the good of everyone, Russian, Ukrainian and otherwise.
I'm explaining the state of mind and how we've got to this point.
Those snippets are very interesting and informative, for sure, in terms of how those people predicted Russia could react to NATO expansion.
However, surely the Ukrainians have to get a say in what their country does in terms of international alignments and memberships?
During the collapse of the Berlin Wall and the subsequent breakup of the Soviet union under Mikhail Gorbachev Noam Chomskey talked of this as far back as 2014 or 2015 that the agreement reached then was that NATO would not go any further East than the new Germany.
The western power brokers have pushed and pushed these boundaries for decades and whilst yes, its up to each sovereign state to make it's own decisions, do you honestly think if Mexico came to an agreement with the Russians to place missiles on Mexican soil that there wouldn't be some sort of similar pushback from the US considering what they're still doing to a small Caribbean island that didn't want its resources stripped bare by US conglomerates..
Putin is a power hungry animal, but he's been backed into a corner and the Ukrainians are getting the brunt of this East-West power battle.
Of course, absolutely.
But it basically means that small countries that sit on the doorstep of super powers are basically subservient to the wishes and perceived needs of their larger neighbour. What they want themselves only counts within those parameters or "guidelines".
Which I guess is just stating the bleeding obvious. You don't have to look further then our own history.
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
None of this however is the fault of the innocent Ukranians and Russians who are suffering and will suffer. Putin is a vile bastard.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2022, 09:29:38 AM
Quote from: WT4E on March 03, 2022, 09:21:22 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 03, 2022, 09:00:35 AM
Another good Twitter thread https://twitter.com/lunarssr/status/1498886454285463555?s=21
Read that thread an makes sense but where are the people of the East in Ukraine celebrating being liberated? Aren't they happy or maybe the news we get is not showing that?
The thread kind of ignores what the majority of people of Ukraine want now. Crimea was overwhelming pro russian but had a sizeable ukranian minority which the author conveniently ignored. Its annex has some quite strong parallells to the sick counties
I don't think it does, in fact it explicitly states that the country is virtually split between pro-west/pro-Russian. The Crimean region was transferred to Ukraine in 1954 under USSR which obviously didn't matter much then as it was still Soviet territory. I don't think it is any sort of parallel to the north... it would be like Britain giving Merseyside to Ireland pre independence and then deciding after 1922 that they wanted it back.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
None of this however is the fault of the innocent Ukranians and Russians who are suffering and will suffer. Putin is a vile bastard.
Time moves on and while at the time those countries were happy enough not to be part of NATO but they do now, it's still not the right of Russia to impose their will on other countries which are not their own.
Russians are taught at an early age about the enemies, a bit like every country has a bogey man, theirs was/is the West!
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
Only one Country ever used Nuclear weapons (on 2 civilian targets).
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 02:20:37 PM
Only one Country ever used Nuclear weapons (on 2 civilian targets).
Something that always gets swept under the carpet. Although have been reading a few posts elsewhere that argue that the nuke being used in Japan stopped any more major conflicts between super powers and saved thousands if not millions of lives
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
And if you're Iranian you can't get Nukes quick enough to keep the other f**kers out of your lands.
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
Who has Iran ever gone to war with?
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 03, 2022, 02:49:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
Who has Iran ever gone to war with?
Iraq, after the Yanks decided they didn't like their buddy, the Shah getting overthrown, so they gave Saddam a load of nasty weapons, chemical and all which he used on the Kurds and Iranians.
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 03, 2022, 02:49:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
Who has Iran ever gone to war with?
Currently iran and saudi messing behind the scenes all over the middle east to try and gain the upper hand over each other
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.
https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2022, 02:57:19 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 03, 2022, 02:49:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
Who has Iran ever gone to war with?
Currently iran and saudi messing behind the scenes all over the middle east to try and gain the upper hand over each other
So none then.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.
https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)
Can't find the video but this article covers that time period and even blames Clinton for pressing for NATO expansions east even though several sources say there was an agreement between Reagan and Gorbachev...
https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/ (https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/)
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 03, 2022, 03:28:06 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2022, 02:57:19 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 03, 2022, 02:49:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
Who has Iran ever gone to war with?
Currently iran and saudi messing behind the scenes all over the middle east to try and gain the upper hand over each other
So none then.
Iraq
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#:~:text=The%20war%20lasted%20for%20almost,the%20United%20Nations%20Security%20Council. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#:~:text=The%20war%20lasted%20for%20almost,the%20United%20Nations%20Security%20Council.)
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:35:16 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.
https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)
Can't find the video but this article covers that time period and even blames Clinton for pressing for NATO expansions east even though several sources say there was an agreement between Reagan and Gorbachev...
https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/ (https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/)
So these countries are being forced to join Nato?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2022, 03:45:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:35:16 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.
https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)
Can't find the video but this article covers that time period and even blames Clinton for pressing for NATO expansions east even though several sources say there was an agreement between Reagan and Gorbachev...
https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/ (https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/)
So these countries are being forced to join Nato?
Who said that?
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.
https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)
When Putin is fully finished with invading Ukraine
He will have a border with Nato 4-6 times the length of the border with Nato before he invaded
Go figure
Plus a mass insurrection in that country and a fully engaged Nato
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2022, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.
https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)
When Putin is fully finished with invading Ukraine
He will have a border with Nato 4-6 times the length of the border with Nato before he invaded
Go figure
Plus a mass insurrection in that country and a fully engaged Nato
Plus Georgia Sweden and Finland all now thinking about NATO. So all in all a complete f**k up by vlad
Quote from: blasmere on March 03, 2022, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 03, 2022, 03:28:06 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2022, 02:57:19 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 03, 2022, 02:49:43 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
Who has Iran ever gone to war with?
Currently iran and saudi messing behind the scenes all over the middle east to try and gain the upper hand over each other
So none then.
Iraq
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#:~:text=The%20war%20lasted%20for%20almost,the%20United%20Nations%20Security%20Council. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#:~:text=The%20war%20lasted%20for%20almost,the%20United%20Nations%20Security%20Council.)
They were invaded by Iraq.
Garry Kasparov:
https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1499088993736138754?s=20&t=ynHrJWADxw1NxOPipNj12A (https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1499088993736138754?s=20&t=ynHrJWADxw1NxOPipNj12A)
Putin's war on Ukraine has entered its next phase, one of destruction and slaughter of civilians. It is also a part of Putin's World War, a war on the civilized world of international law, democracy, and any threat to his power, which he declared long ago.
The free world's denial of this war and decades of appeasement allowed Putin to threaten and conquer abroad while turning Russia into a police state. The price to stop him has gone up every time he has advanced unchallenged. Ukrainians are paying that price in blood.
If Putin is not stopped now, not prevented from destroying Ukraine and committing genocide against its people, there will be a next time and it will be in NATO, with an unprecedented nuclear threat. Do not let Putin escalate again in a time and place of his choosing.
Everyone is quoting my 2015 book Winter Is Coming and saying I was right & "listen to Kasparov". But will you still listen when I say this will take sacrifice and risk? Not just wheat and gas prices, not just empty chalets and unemployed lobbyists. Easy is over.
Or will you say that I am irrational, blinded by hate, as I heard in 2015? I hope not. Putin must be stopped because the unthinkable is now the possible. The world has awoken, at long last, and many steps I recommended last week are happening. It's not enough.
My recommendations:
1 I cannot demand NATO attack Russian forces directly, but I can speak from history & knowledge of Putin. A dictator who has already crossed every line cannot be prevented from escalating with restraint. If he destroys Ukraine, he won't stop.
2 We are not trying to appeal to the murderer in his bunker in the Urals. The message is to those who carry out his orders. Will they? Do they all wish to die? Putin will escalate anyway if he is not stopped now. He will, as he always has before, & the price will be higher. 7/13
3 Send Russia to the technological stone age. No support, no parts, no services. Oil boycotts aren't necessary if oil tech is unavailable. The industry will grind to a halt. This means a war footing in sacrificing, retooling & increasing production to substitute. It's war.
4 It's always tragic that ordinary people suffer, but they are not being bombed in their homes like Ukrainians. Every element of Russian society that can pressure Putin must know they have to choose between him & everything else. Some will cling to him, but for how long?
5 Clear message to Russian generals that they will suffer annihilation if one inch of NATO is touched. Send UKR every weapon, including the jets that have been blocked, as if Putin cares about the difference. Stop guessing about his thoughts and do what is needed. 10/13
6 Every day Ukraine endures gives opportunity to communicate this catastrophe to the only people who can really stop Putin, the Russian people, from oligarchs to commanders to protestors. Let all in the power vertical know they will be treated as war criminals. They are.
7 Leave nothing in reserve. Speed is of the essence to stop payments and catch them and their assets before they hide. Threats like "he doesn't know what's coming" don't work if Putin doesn't believe you. Show him. And show Russians there is no way back with Putin. Never.
8 Root out the corrupt politicians, businessmen & dark money that corrupted a generation to turn a blind eye or serve authoritarian regimes. Follow the donations, payments, gifts, influence. Hold them accountable. Down with Putin & his appeasers, glory to Ukraine.
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
The big lesson here is that if you have nukes like what Ukraine did
You don't give them up
Regardless of what guarantees you get from the Russians or anyone else
Something the Iranians and North Koreans will have noted
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2022, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
The big lesson here is that if you have nukes like what Ukraine did
You don't give them up
Regardless of what guarantees you get from the Russians or anyone else
Something the Iranians and North Koreans will have noted
well exactly and you don't need anymore regimes getting them and threatening nuclear war
I think North Korea already have some nuclear capability.
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 05:22:44 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2022, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
The big lesson here is that if you have nukes like what Ukraine did
You don't give them up
Regardless of what guarantees you get from the Russians or anyone else
Something the Iranians and North Koreans will have noted
well exactly and you don't need anymore regimes getting them and threatening nuclear war
I think North Korea already have some nuclear capability.
Which pretty much secures the Kim family in power for ever more, bar some asteroid strike or one of them actually initiating a nuclear war.
Quote from: J70 on March 03, 2022, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 05:22:44 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2022, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
The big lesson here is that if you have nukes like what Ukraine did
You don't give them up
Regardless of what guarantees you get from the Russians or anyone else
Something the Iranians and North Koreans will have noted
well exactly and you don't need anymore regimes getting them and threatening nuclear war
I think North Korea already have some nuclear capability.
Which pretty much secures the Kim family in power for ever more, bar some asteroid strike or one of them actually initiating a nuclear war.
Nukes are no protection against a popular uprising. That is what will probably take the Kim's down
Nukes won't save Israeli apartheid either
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2022, 04:03:06 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2022, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.
https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)
When Putin is fully finished with invading Ukraine
He will have a border with Nato 4-6 times the length of the border with Nato before he invaded
Go figure
Plus a mass insurrection in that country and a fully engaged Nato
Plus Georgia Sweden and Finland all now thinking about NATO. So all in all a complete f**k up by vlad
Totally, hard to see how this pans out positively for Putin from a strategic POV. He's backed himself into a corner with his show of strength and needed to be the hard man. but I can't how this ends well for him.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2022, 04:03:06 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2022, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.
https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)
When Putin is fully finished with invading Ukraine
He will have a border with Nato 4-6 times the length of the border with Nato before he invaded
Go figure
Plus a mass insurrection in that country and a fully engaged Nato
Plus Georgia Sweden and Finland all now thinking about NATO. So all in all a complete f**k up by vlad
Totally, hard to see how this pans out positively for Putin from a strategic POV. He's backed himself into a corner with his show of strength and needed to be the hard man. but I can't how this ends well for him.
At some point hopefully someone in the inner circle will turn on him. He seems isolated even there, at the end of that long table on his own, not even wanting to breath the same air as them, humiliating the intelligence chief who looked like he was bricking it, shades of Stalin.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/four-irish-babies-born-to-surrogate-mothers-in-kyiv-evacuated-from-ukraine-1.4817766Four Irish babies born to surrogate mothers in Ukraine in recent days have been safely evacuated from the war-torn country, The Irish Times understands.
The infants, including a set of twins, were brought by medical staff on the 24-hour journey from the Russian-targeted Ukrainian capital Kyiv to the country's southwestern border.
The children, who are all Irish citizens, were united with their Irish parents after the couples were flown to Romania on Wednesday night on an Irish Air Corps PC-12 aircraft in an operation described by sources as "humanitarian" in nature.
The Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of Defence have declined to comment. A spokesman for Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney said he could not comment on consular issues.
Quote from: seafoid on March 03, 2022, 06:00:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 03, 2022, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 05:22:44 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2022, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don't let Iran get nukes .
The big lesson here is that if you have nukes like what Ukraine did
You don't give them up
Regardless of what guarantees you get from the Russians or anyone else
Something the Iranians and North Koreans will have noted
well exactly and you don't need anymore regimes getting them and threatening nuclear war
I think North Korea already have some nuclear capability.
Which pretty much secures the Kim family in power for ever more, bar some asteroid strike or one of them actually initiating a nuclear war.
Nukes are no protection against a popular uprising. That is what will probably take the Kim's down
Nukes won't save Israeli apartheid either
We can hope. But the Kims have kept their boots on the necks of their people for three generations now, even through devastating famine.
Israel - there'd have to be a massive change in the outlook in America for serious change there I think. Although there is much more dissent than there used to be.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:50:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2022, 03:45:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:35:16 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.
Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.
https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)
Can't find the video but this article covers that time period and even blames Clinton for pressing for NATO expansions east even though several sources say there was an agreement between Reagan and Gorbachev...
https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/ (https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/)
So these countries are being forced to join Nato?
Who said that?
Within this post in bold was said that Russian was promised that NATO would not move an inch eastwards, NATO did not force countries to be part of it.
Russia will be looking to take back Alaska at this rate as it would be a buffer zone to the West
Zaporizhzhia Ukraine has the largest Nuclear Plant in Europe.
It is now on fire from Russian shelling.
Scientists stated this could be 10 times worse than Chernobyl
If they are attacking nuclear power plants surely its a sign they want to draw the west into this??
I see they've 'taken control' of the nuclear plant. He'll hardly strike it now, or will he?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2022, 07:07:40 AM
I see they've 'taken control' of the nuclear plant. He'll hardly strike it now, or will he?
Ah OK. Maybe better that way than shelling it!!
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:04:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2022, 05:42:59 PM
How many Russian missiles are pointed at European capitals?
The refrain of the USA having "overthrown the elected government & replaced it (with a neo-Nazi regime)" is straight from RT, even by Russian standards it's bog standard propaganda.
Since the overthrow of the pro Russian government in 2014, pro Russian and pro communist era type international media have labelled the then broadly popular pro EU movement and subsequent Ukrainian governments as being fascist led and pro nazi.The modern history of Ukraine is much more nuanced than those old refrains dating from WW2 and which equated being anti bolshevik with pro nazi.
While the Ukraine 'cause' is proving to be a rallying cry for UR militia types to get involved, the ultra right coalition have received scant political support, in both of the most recent presidential and general elections they polled less than 2%.
Hmm more like Reuters... the Azov battalions have been absorbed into the Ukrainian military. They don't need nor want political support, not when they're on the same hymn sheet as the government - bit like the (then legal) UDA here in the north back in the 1980s.
A good summary of the Avov battalion here.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/03/02/what-is-ukraines-azov-battalion
These Asov people would not be on the, same page as the government if the Russians hadn't invaded.
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!
A few hundred nut jobs then. The article hinting that the far right will flock to Ukraines cause ! -I call bullshit, the far right across Europe polls badly but hey if thats the worry for some as oppossed to the actual shit that is happening right now, residential areas being flattened , thousands of innocent people being killed millions displaced.
Quote from: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 09:04:06 AM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!
Sending t Ukraine to be used by Uraine air, force maybe. But if you mean outside airforces, Putin may take real offence.
They're already sending tanks etc so what's the difference.
Quote from: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 09:04:06 AM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!
Who's gonna fly them?
https://mobile.twitter.com/skbozphd/status/1499298691156705282
Indian TV's take on the crisis!
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 04, 2022, 01:06:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 09:04:06 AM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!
Who's gonna fly them?
They has an airforce - stop trying to be a tool in the midst of this crisis.
Quote from: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 04, 2022, 01:06:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 09:04:06 AM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!
Who's gonna fly them?
They has an airforce - stop trying to be a tool in the midst of this crisis.
I thought I read somewhere that they were looking for Russian made Aircraft as that is what their pilots are used to...
Quote from: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 04, 2022, 01:06:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 09:04:06 AM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!
Who's gonna fly them?
They has an airforce - stop trying to be a tool in the midst of this crisis.
Combat flying fighter isn't like driving a car, nor is it like flying a WW2 fighter.
With all the systems that go into a modern fighter, learning how they operate and doing so under heat of the moment is something that takes
months to acquire.
Now, they had a request out for the Polish MiG-29s, which are an aircraft they do have experience with in their airforce. As to why they weren't given them, I've no idea.
If it were up to me (and its not obvs!), then the following shortlist would be very useful.
Crotale (France)
Rapier (UK)
Starstreak (UK)
At least one of those is being replaced (Rapier), so there should be quite few kicking around somewhere that could be sent over quickly.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 04, 2022, 01:26:16 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 04, 2022, 01:06:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 09:04:06 AM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!
Who's gonna fly them?
They has an airforce - stop trying to be a tool in the midst of this crisis.
I thought I read somewhere that they were looking for Russian made Aircraft as that is what their pilots are used to...
Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria have aging MIGs which would suit. No doubt the intention was that somebody would chip in for new fighters for these places.
The fighters have not materialised.
However, a rake of ground to air missiles have been sent, you might not snag a fighter with these but you would a helicopters. The Germans sent a rake of old SAMs from DDR times, the Ukrainians already have some of these and know the story.
Russia will conquer the whole country.
It doesn't seem interested in occupation.
How are Ukrainians likely to react ?
The worry now is that Putin was never interested in occupying Ukraine. He simply wants to obliterate the country and wipe it from the face of the earth. Like the jilted lover who's come back to take his revenge. As scary a thought as it is, if Putin continues to target civilians it's hard to see how the West can stand by and watch this unfold.
Quote from: Armamike on March 04, 2022, 07:23:35 PM
The worry now is that Putin was never interested in occupying Ukraine. He simply wants to obliterate the country and wipe it from the face of the earth. Like the jilted lover who's come back to take his revenge. As scary a thought as it is, if Putin continues to target civilians it's hard to see how the West can stand by and watch this unfold.
Indeed.
Lindsey Graham was calling last night for the Russians to assassinate Putin. Got a lot of pushback from all sides of US politics.
Even Marjorie Taylor Greene! :o
Personally, I found Graham to be an odious character for his behaviour with Trump (his old pal John McCain must be turning in his grave at his carry on), but I have to say that, under the circumstances, it (calling for them to take out Putin) is not the worst thing a politician has come out with.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2022, 07:16:05 PM
Russia will conquer the whole country.
It doesn't seem interested in occupation.
How are Ukrainians likely to react ?
that's the goal , control all the oil and gas and supply lines , nuclear plants too. Then Europe if they continue as they have will either have to deal with Putin or find some other way of creating energy
Ukraine also a big producer of food and raw materials for food production and who buys most of their food exports ? China. Something bigger going on here with china and a few other countries they will create their own markets and tell the west to f- off
Maybe Trump wasn't that bad a fella.
Quote from: ONeill on March 04, 2022, 09:16:47 PM
Maybe Trump wasn't that bad a fella.
very mean tweeter though
https://news.sky.com/story/sky-news-teams-harrowing-account-of-their-violent-ambush-in-ukraine-this-week-12557585
China might reclaim Manchuria at some point
GaaboardMod5 - if there's no objections could you change the thread to Russian invasion of Ukraine? Or move all the recent ones ti a different thread?
Or forget I ever mentioned this seeing as Putin actually wants a regime change? :-[
Quote from: J70 on March 04, 2022, 07:51:53 PM
Personally, I found Graham to be an odious character for his behaviour with Trump (his old pal John McCain must be turning in his grave at his carry on), but I have to say that, under the circumstances, it (calling for them to take out Putin) is not the worst thing a politician has come out with.
Yeah... I found myself thinking "If I'm broadly in agreement with Lindsey Graham and others are ridiculing him, have I went wrong somewhere?"
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2022, 11:55:43 AM
They're already sending tanks etc so what's the difference.
not sure flooding the place with weapons at this late stage is a great idea, look what happened in Afghanistan.
Quote from: Gmac on March 05, 2022, 02:32:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2022, 11:55:43 AM
They're already sending tanks etc so what's the difference.
not sure flooding the place with weapons at this late stage is a great idea, look what happened in Afghanistan.
WTF?
I think you've got your analogy back to front there.
That's like saying "no point the Taliban flooding the place with weapons".
Quote from: grounded on March 04, 2022, 01:16:31 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/skbozphd/status/1499298691156705282
Indian TV's take on the crisis!
In the midst of this horrible situation, it's nice to have a laugh!
Surprise Surprise Ukrainian authorities say Russia is not observing a temporary ceasefire that was agreed in two cities - c***ts done the same in Syria, hard to believe anyone could be so evil.
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243
Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia's offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.
https://www.ft.com/content/e315f100-1de9-42c4-a5a3-8a1245664641
The US secretary of state warned pressure on Russia would intensify. "Not only is it unprecedented, not only is it producing very, very concrete results in Russia, but that pressure too will not only continue — it will grow until this war . . . is brought to an end," Blinken said.
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2022, 04:55:29 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243
Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia's offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.
I'd say at this stage Putin looks intent on leaving every city except Kyiv flattened to the ground with inhabitants beneath the rubble just like he did in Aleppo.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 05, 2022, 10:43:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2022, 04:55:29 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243
Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia's offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.
I'd say at this stage Putin looks intent on leaving every city except Kyiv flattened to the ground with inhabitants beneath the rubble just like he did in Aleppo.
He might, but he might capture some of the smaller ones as the Ukrainians don't pitch their battle there e.g. Kherson, whereas he'll need all his men to capture Kyiv.
Kharkiv got flattened to the ground previous in the 4 great battles for the city in ww2. Russian line of NATO expansion doesn't wash. The old nxt door neighbour was polish. Her Husband had served in the soviet army, Poland bck then hadn't a seperate army. It was all ussr. They were already worried about Russia invading again. All the small baltic states wanted NATO membership for protection from its bigger neighbour with history for invading. These smaller countries didn't add anything to the strong arm of NATO, USA, UK, France and to an extend Germany. Poland and the rest knew they needed western help to try kept the local bully boy of their patch.
Another week gone by. The Russians have bit off more than they can chew. They'll not break the spirit of the Ukrainians. And every NATO country should feel assured for the future given that the Russian army can't even knock out the army of a single state. They seem to have made a complete balls of it. That 40 mile convoy is a sitting duck. I'm not saying it won't get very ugly, but this is definitely not Putin Plan A.
https://www.ft.com/content/2f1f0944-ceab-4042-93bd-63c2d863a75f
The US is working with Warsaw on a deal to provide Ukraine with Polish fighter jets as Kyiv ratchets up the pressure on the west to boost its air force capabilities so it can repel Russian attacks.
There is some discussion in the media that the Russians have now deployed 95% of the forces deployed. They had planned on a quick campaign and they only have supplies fit that lot for about 10 days, with new supplies arriving less quickly than they are being used They haven't really cranked up production of military stuff and, when it is used up then it us not being replaced. You could see a stalemate developing where the Russians cannot push on.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 07, 2022, 08:46:19 AM
There is some discussion in the media that the Russians have now deployed 95% of the forces deployed. They had planned on a quick campaign and they only have supplies fit that lot for about 10 days, with new supplies arriving less quickly than they are being used They haven't really cranked up production of military stuff and, when it is used up then it us not being replaced. You could see a stalemate developing where the Russians cannot push on.
As much of a mess as it has been for Russia they might be happy enough to take all of the black sea coast from Ukraine
The Russians would be very happy to take the coast to Crimea anyway. But they want to overthrow the government also.
Yeah it's wipeout time here tbh. There's no turning back until it's game over.
Ukraine need help in terms of military assistance but the implications are scary. At best a proxy war right in the centre of Europe and worst WW3. Watched Domnic Rabb on last night giving the tories a slap on the back for reducing the time for Russian dirty money to be moved to 6 months. So far out of 1.5 million refugees Britain has granted visas for 50 people. The British government really have let Ukraine down.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 07, 2022, 11:23:00 AM
Ukraine need help in terms of military assistance but the implications are scary. At best a proxy war right in the centre of Europe and worst WW3. Watched Domnic Rabb on last night giving the tories a slap on the back for reducing the time for Russian dirty money to be moved to 6 months. So far out of 1.5 million refugees Britain has granted visas for 50 people. The British government really have let Ukraine down.
Tories are the complete money lovin scumbags
Admitting 50 refugees to date. Pathetic.
Putin is basically trolling everyone. He is opening corridors so ukrainians can escape to russia or belarus. He is taking the piss out of everyone.
Also Russia has announced an approved list of those who have been seen to help Ukraine. The whole of the EU, aka Ireland, and the Uk are on the list. A significant proportion of the "developed" world is on it too.
FSB (formerly KGB) 'sources' say war has to be won by June or Russia will collapse. Also, FSB not even kept in the loop of all developments but expect to be blamed if and when analysis of the situation goes wrong.
Quote from: mouview on March 07, 2022, 01:55:05 PM
FSB (formerly KGB) 'sources' say war has to be won by June or Russia will collapse. Also, FSB not even kept in the loop of all developments but expect to be blamed if and when analysis of the situation goes wrong.
not sure what winning the war looks like, let alone in June.
There'll guerrilla attacks for years to come irrespective of what Russia has in plan for Ukraine. They'll still need the army in situ to maintain a proxy government unless they can get a few Ukrainian Generals to stage a coup, not likely.
Surely the takeover of the main cities (in particular Kiev) would be seen as winning?
The reckoning is it's costing Russia 2 billion USD a day and with the seizing of so many assets etc they will run out of money in that kind of timeframe. (I actually read sooner).
Unfortunately I expect the Russians to have broken them before that :(
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2022, 02:03:25 PM
Surely the takeover of the main cities (in particular Kiev) would be seen as winning?
The reckoning is it's costing Russia 2 billion USD a day and with the seizing of so many assets etc they will run out of money in that kind of timeframe. (I actually read sooner).
Unfortunately I expect the Russians to have broken them before that :(
Yeah, but takeover will be much more than raising the Russian flag over the local cityhall and then trotting off back to Russia. It will mean the army being kept in place there at whatever $2B a day and the sanctions won't be lifted either.
IMO he'll claim victory, then negotiate with the Ukrainians to hold some regions to the East and a pathway to Crimea and more access to the Black sea.
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2022, 04:55:29 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243
Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia's offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.
Evil bastards at it again, it's shocking some major global brands still standing by Russia. Those poor people, what they must be going through is unimaginable.
Some great stuff on twitter from logistics anoraks and the like. Like most people Id have thought the Russian army was going to steam roll them. The more I read the more I think a Russian military collapse is imminent. They have made an absolute balls out of the whole thing.
Quote from: HiMucker on March 07, 2022, 03:28:16 PM
Some great stuff on twitter from logistics anoraks and the like. Like most people Id have thought the Russian army was going to steam roll them. The more I read the more I think a Russian military collapse is imminent. They have made an absolute balls out of the whole thing.
Wish you were right Mucker and ive read a bit meself. Unfortunately i can see them rumbling on for a while yet (based on nothing)
Quote from: Average Score on March 07, 2022, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2022, 04:55:29 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243
Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia's offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.
Evil bastards at it again, it's shocking some major global brands still standing by Russia. Those poor people, what they must be going through is unimaginable.
If only it was unimaginable... but ask a Palestinain, an Iraqi, a Syrian, an Afgani etc. it is very real for way too many people for way too long. Some of whom, do/did not have the option to flee anywhere..
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 07, 2022, 03:59:08 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 07, 2022, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2022, 04:55:29 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243
Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia's offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.
Evil bastards at it again, it's shocking some major global brands still standing by Russia. Those poor people, what they must be going through is unimaginable.
If only it was unimaginable... but ask a Palestinain, an Iraqi, a Syrian, an Afgani etc. it is very real for way too many people for way too long.
You've left out the African countries also, and not one fcuk given
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 07, 2022, 04:06:30 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 07, 2022, 03:59:08 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 07, 2022, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2022, 04:55:29 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243
Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia's offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.
Evil bastards at it again, it's shocking some major global brands still standing by Russia. Those poor people, what they must be going through is unimaginable.
If only it was unimaginable... but ask a Palestinain, an Iraqi, a Syrian, an Afgani etc. it is very real for way too many people for way too long.
You've left out the African countries also, and not one fcuk given
sadly, there are too many to mention so I added etc. I didn't mention Yemen either
Quote from: johnnycool on March 07, 2022, 02:50:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2022, 02:03:25 PM
Surely the takeover of the main cities (in particular Kiev) would be seen as winning?
The reckoning is it's costing Russia 2 billion USD a day and with the seizing of so many assets etc they will run out of money in that kind of timeframe. (I actually read sooner).
Unfortunately I expect the Russians to have broken them before that :(
Yeah, but takeover will be much more than raising the Russian flag over the local cityhall and then trotting off back to Russia. It will mean the army being kept in place there at whatever $2B a day and the sanctions won't be lifted either.
IMO he'll claim victory, then negotiate with the Ukrainians to hold some regions to the East and a pathway to Crimea and more access to the Black sea.
Getting a pathway to Crimea is his worst possible outcome - he wants much more - but is struggling to get it. I don't think he will even get a clear pathway to Crimea as Mariupol are putting up a great battle to stay within Ukraine in that region. If putin gets Odessa as well then he may back off after that but highly unlikely.
Hard to imagine that is it highly likely that they are going to run out of funds to continue their war - that is the very last thing Russia would have expected
Serves them right - Ukraine have put up a seriously strong resistance that most people didn't think was even possible so fair f**ks to them.
Quote from: Mikhailov on March 07, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 07, 2022, 02:50:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2022, 02:03:25 PM
Surely the takeover of the main cities (in particular Kiev) would be seen as winning?
The reckoning is it's costing Russia 2 billion USD a day and with the seizing of so many assets etc they will run out of money in that kind of timeframe. (I actually read sooner).
Unfortunately I expect the Russians to have broken them before that :(
He wasn't expecting 20 allies of Ukraine to provide weapons either
Yeah, but takeover will be much more than raising the Russian flag over the local cityhall and then trotting off back to Russia. It will mean the army being kept in place there at whatever $2B a day and the sanctions won't be lifted either.
IMO he'll claim victory, then negotiate with the Ukrainians to hold some regions to the East and a pathway to Crimea and more access to the Black sea.
Getting a pathway to Crimea is his worst possible outcome - he wants much more - but is struggling to get it. I don't think he will even get a clear pathway to Crimea as Mariupol are putting up a great battle to stay within Ukraine in that region. If putin gets Odessa as well then he may back off after that but highly unlikely.
Hard to imagine that is it highly likely that they are going to run out of funds to continue their war - that is the very last thing Russia would have expected
Serves them right - Ukraine have put up a seriously strong resistance that most people didn't think was even possible so fair f**ks to them.
If they can get those Polish MIGs then they may finally sort out that massive sitting duck convoy
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 07, 2022, 06:23:41 PM
If they can get those Polish MIGs then they may finally sort out that massive sitting duck convoy
Ah, I dunno if they'll make anything like the impact the Ukranians hope for - I think their impact will be vastly underwhelming compared to their resources consumed. They might think it a morale winner - but when they are mostly smoking holes in the ground within a couple of days - then it may have the opposite effect.
I'd think it more useful if Poland's order for >20 TB2 drones was directed Ukraine's direction instead. Turkey themselves have over 100 and are a NATO member - why are they not being tapped up for sending a rake more over.
Austrian company Schiebel make the Camcopter - perfect for ambushing vehicles in the Ukrainian terrain. Can NATO not gather together a few dozen of these? 'Course they can. The Belgians have them, the French have them, the Italians have them and so do the Yanks.
Even old Predators from the US would do a fine job.
Best of it is, how are the Russians going to know if a Predator is being piloted by a Ukrainian 10 miles away, or a trained operator sitting 400 miles away in Poland taking cues from on ground Ukrainian forces? They (Russians) sure as hell wouldn't have enough proof to push any further.
A man on a holy mission
A truck carrying ecclesiastical supplies was driven through the gates of the Russian embassy in Dublin this afternoon.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0307/1284925-embassy/
(https://img.rasset.ie/001b526b-800.jpg)
Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2022, 08:06:04 PM
A man on a holy mission
A truck carrying ecclesiastical supplies was driven through the gates of the Russian embassy in Dublin this afternoon.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0307/1284925-embassy/
(https://img.rasset.ie/001b526b-800.jpg)
A Jihad on the Russians.
Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2022, 08:06:04 PM
A man on a holy mission
A truck carrying ecclesiastical supplies was driven through the gates of the Russian embassy in Dublin this afternoon.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0307/1284925-embassy/
(https://img.rasset.ie/001b526b-800.jpg)
Just read that story and this sentence stands out from the embassy:
"The incident is cause of extreme concern. We believe that no people of sound mind could support such senseless and barbaric actions," it added.
Mind boggling
That embassy statement was cowered with paranoia and mopery, even accused the Gardai of "standing idly by" ;D
They probably thought that was an original insult, when in fact its usage has already entered into the annals and is frozen in time.
Takes a Laythrum man to put the wind up them Russians :D
Quote from: Rossfan on March 07, 2022, 11:24:26 PM
Takes a Laythrum man to put the wind up them Russians :D
Is that Altar wine on the side of that lorry? ;D ;D
Has anyone read the Putin has terminal Cancer theory?
Quote from: WT4E on March 08, 2022, 09:15:36 AM
Has anyone read the Putin has terminal Cancer theory?
I haven't read it but it makes sense. How many political leaders in history are ingrained in the world's memory who didn't warmonger? Even though he's been running one of the world's superpowers for 20 years, he'd have left this earth without leaving a long lasting footprint... until last week's actions.
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2022, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: WT4E on March 08, 2022, 09:15:36 AM
Has anyone read the Putin has terminal Cancer theory?
I haven't read it but it makes sense. How many political leaders in history are ingrained in the world's memory who didn't warmonger? Even though he's been running one of the world's superpowers for 20 years, he'd have left this earth without leaving a long lasting footprint... until last week's actions.
Not sure I follow, I like probably most here have known folk with terminal cancer, or another life ending illness, it seems to change people to be more reflective in my opinion. The other theory that he's puffed up because of steroid addiction makes more sense, anyone who has been interviewed of late and have met him say he's a totally different person to that a few years back.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 07, 2022, 11:24:26 PM
Takes a Laythrum man to put the wind up them Russians :D
If you've ever driven through Ballinamore of a Sunday after mass you'd know that you have just witnessed normal Leitrim driving. The protest story was just way to spare his blushes
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 07, 2022, 06:23:41 PM
If they can get those Polish MIGs then they may finally sort out that massive sitting duck convoy
Are you talking MIGs as in the Soviet era planes that Poland had when they were in the Warsaw pact, sometime in the middle of the last century?
I don't think Poland has many of them still flying given that they are now in NATO and have been for 20+ years.
According to the news Poland have a load of them. They want them replaced with new Jets from the US and then give Ukraine the Migs so that the Ukranian pilots are good to go as they know the planes and dont need further training
Should send them some trebuchets when they're at it .
Just googled trebuchets, very good
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 07, 2022, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 07, 2022, 06:23:41 PM
If they can get those Polish MIGs then they may finally sort out that massive sitting duck convoy
Ah, I dunno if they'll make anything like the impact the Ukranians hope for - I think their impact will be vastly underwhelming compared to their resources consumed. They might think it a morale winner - but when they are mostly smoking holes in the ground within a couple of days - then it may have the opposite effect.
I'd think it more useful if Poland's order for >20 TB2 drones was directed Ukraine's direction instead. Turkey themselves have over 100 and are a NATO member - why are they not being tapped up for sending a rake more over.
Austrian company Schiebel make the Camcopter - perfect for ambushing vehicles in the Ukrainian terrain. Can NATO not gather together a few dozen of these? 'Course they can. The Belgians have them, the French have them, the Italians have them and so do the Yanks.
Even old Predators from the US would do a fine job.
Best of it is, how are the Russians going to know if a Predator is being piloted by a Ukrainian 10 miles away, or a trained operator sitting 400 miles away in Poland taking cues from on ground Ukrainian forces? They (Russians) sure as hell wouldn't have enough proof to push any further.
A covid expert and a war expert. Some boy for one boy.
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 08, 2022, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 07, 2022, 06:23:41 PM
If they can get those Polish MIGs then they may finally sort out that massive sitting duck convoy
Are you talking MIGs as in the Soviet era planes that Poland had when they were in the Warsaw pact, sometime in the middle of the last century?
I don't think Poland has many of them still flying given that they are now in NATO and have been for 20+ years.
Poland have some, as do Slovakia and Bulgaria. The point is that they will have probably be replaced in the new few years and you might as well scrap them in dogfight against the Russians.
But the earlier comments about drones are also relevant.
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 08, 2022, 12:32:34 PM
Should send them some trebuchets when they're at it .
You joke but literally anything would obliterate that massive convoy which is just asking for it so puzzled why it hasnt
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 08, 2022, 01:01:00 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 08, 2022, 12:32:34 PM
Should send them some trebuchets when they're at it .
You joke but literally anything would obliterate that massive convoy which is just asking for it so puzzled why it hasnt
I have heard a few military experts on the news saying the same.
Quote from: Average Score on March 08, 2022, 01:04:20 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 08, 2022, 01:01:00 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 08, 2022, 12:32:34 PM
Should send them some trebuchets when they're at it .
You joke but literally anything would obliterate that massive convoy which is just asking for it so puzzled why it hasnt
I have heard a few military experts on the news saying the same.
Culvert Bomb
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 08, 2022, 12:11:47 PM
According to the news Poland have a load of them. They want them replaced with new Jets from the US and then give Ukraine the Migs so that the Ukranian pilots are good to go as they know the planes and dont need further training
Craic was, Poland were gonna get F-35s in 2024
Craic now is, the Yanks might give them the next brand spanking new ones off the production line if they hand over their Fulcrums to the Ukrainians.
But there would need to be NATO sensitive equipment removed first.
and its not clear how much capability they have for precision air to ground.
or even what air to air munitions they run on.
Not straightforward.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 08, 2022, 01:17:29 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 08, 2022, 01:04:20 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 08, 2022, 01:01:00 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 08, 2022, 12:32:34 PM
Should send them some trebuchets when they're at it .
You joke but literally anything would obliterate that massive convoy which is just asking for it so puzzled why it hasnt
I have heard a few military experts on the news saying the same.
Culvert Bomb
A lot of fertiliser is produced in Ukraine.
But then, perhaps they have placed a culvert bomb further down the road and when the convoy gets there they will blow up the first couple of yokes and emerge with anti tank missiles to get the rest.
have the West no truck mounted missiles that could be donated to fire at static convoys and the like?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2022, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 08, 2022, 12:11:47 PM
According to the news Poland have a load of them. They want them replaced with new Jets from the US and then give Ukraine the Migs so that the Ukranian pilots are good to go as they know the planes and dont need further training
Craic was, Poland were gonna get F-35s in 2024
Craic now is, the Yanks might give them the next brand spanking new ones off the production line if they hand over their Fulcrums to the Ukrainians.
But there would need to be NATO sensitive equipment removed first.
and its not clear how much capability they have for precision air to ground.
or even what air to air munitions they run on.
Not straightforward.
and....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60657155
Poland to give the MiGs to the Yanks, who will then give them to the Ukrainians.
Brit government deny accusations that it has been making it difficult for Ukrainians to apply for visas. Those Ukrainians who were in France were told to apply at Calais, when they got to Calais there was no reception centre, instead they received the news that they had to apply at the British embassy Paris and take advantage of a walk-in appointment period on Thursday afternoons between 2 pm - 3pm.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60655788
300!!!!
Apparently they are "concerned" because we will be taking in lots of the poor devils.
Quote from: Main Street on March 08, 2022, 08:39:07 PM
Brit government deny accusations that it has been making it difficult for Ukrainians to apply for visas. Those Ukrainians who were in France were told to apply at Calais, when they got to Calais there was no reception centre, instead they received the news that they had to apply at the British embassy Paris and take advantage of a walk-in appointment period on Thursday afternoons between 2 pm - 3pm.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60655788
Priti Stupid is on the case.
Nothing but flat out lies again and again and again from that party. Disgusting and without an ounce of humanity between them.
Russian/Ukrainian now UK (Boris detesting) comedian/podcaster Konstantin Kisin has said that refugees would prefer to be close to their homeland and recommended the UK did all they could to support them in those regions... a different perspective worth keeping in mind
Doesn't excuse them skull.
The NATO social media team had a bit of a blooper
https://twitter.com/markamesexiled/status/1501323187832823814?s=21
In fairness why would any Ukrainian want to come to the UK? Barring they have family there surely they'd be better staying in France.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 09, 2022, 08:39:31 AM
In fairness why would any Ukrainian want to come to the UK? Barring they have family there surely they'd be better staying in France.
Their English is better than their French?
Sting vows to never perform for Russian billionaires again after Ukraine invasion. Lucky them!
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 09, 2022, 08:39:31 AM
In fairness why would any Ukrainian want to come to the UK? Barring they have family there surely they'd be better staying in France.
I often ask the same as to why anyone would want to live in Armagh
I am sure you are very knowledgeable of the place and it's residents.
is the embassy guy not some sort of far right winger thats angry at the russians causing a refugee crises
Quote from: Eire90 on March 09, 2022, 01:39:42 PM
is the embassy guy not some sort of far right winger thats angry at the russians causing a refugee crises
I am not sure what his story is, he was involved (along with a lot of FF and FG types) in Ballinamore to protest against a direct provision centre. The local SF TD Martin Kenny has his car burnt out by those loons as it sat in front of his house at night with his family inside. How central this fella was in that protest I dont know.
Cynical publicity stunt
A level headed discussion on the Ukraine crisis worth listening to here
War in Ukraine: Causes and Effects | Robert Wright & Katrina vanden Heuvel | The Wright Show
https://youtu.be/LzEdSemhD8o (https://youtu.be/LzEdSemhD8o)
01:01 Understanding the thought process that led Putin to invade Ukraine
13:24 Could diplomacy have prevented the invasion?
20:30 Imagining possible endings of the war – and what comes after
27:39 Reviewing the events that drove the West and Putin's Russia apart
36:48 How Moscow viewed the 2014 Maidan Revolution in Ukraine
49:13 Could a palace coup in Moscow reset US-Russia relations?
58:13 Bob and Katrina worry that the planet can't afford a second cold war
Robert Wright (Bloggingheads.tv, The Evolution of God, Nonzero, Why Buddhism Is True) and Katrina vanden Heuvel (The Nation). Recorded March 08, 2022.
https://www.ft.com/content/81630924-deb4-4ee8-abed-006a90972bb0
Almost 2.2mn people have fled the fighting in Ukraine, with neighbouring Poland taking the lion's share of refugees.
The UN refugee agency's latest figures showed that, of the 2.16mn total, 1.3mn Ukrainians have headed towards Poland while Hungary has received 203,000 people. Slovakia counted 153,000 across its border, with Romania taking in 35,000 and Moldova 83,000.
https://www.ft.com/content/717c4244-0dda-4564-8380-6cb1352afd68
Rating agency Fitch downgraded Russia by six notches on Tuesday, saying both domestic measures and foreign sanctions made a bond default "imminent".
The UK Ministry of Defence said on Wednesday that the Russian military had confirmed the use of a thermobaric weapon in Ukraine. The so-called TOS-1A system creates "incendiary and blast effects" that have a "devastating impact", the MoD added
Western officials said fighting north-west of Kyiv was continuing, but Russian forces had so far failed to make any significant breakthroughs as they continue to besiege the cities of Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Sumy and Mariupol.
The problem was nobody thought Russia would invade outside of the Americans. If they had loaded the country with extra jetx, anti aircraft missiles, gave the Ukrainians enough to end themselves, Russia I say would not have invaded. Ukraine was not geared up for an invasion, and had not moved its forces into positions for counterattack. The large built up in Belarus should been the tail tell sign and been in place to counter accordingly.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 09, 2022, 11:13:36 PM
The problem was nobody thought Russia would invade outside of the Americans. If they had loaded the country with extra jetx, anti aircraft missiles, gave the Ukrainians enough to end themselves, Russia I say would not have invaded. Ukraine was not geared up for an invasion, and had not moved its forces into positions for counterattack. The large built up in Belarus should been the tail tell sign and been in place to counter accordingly.
Ukrainian forces have not done so bad. They were hardly caught unawares.
As for the Americans, people in the Kremlin, perhaps those who think Putin a dangerous bollix, are providing information. The Ukrainians are getting some information too.
The Ukrainians have a very good arms supply from around 20 countries. The Russian Plan A failed so they are falling back on long distance shelling which is inaccurate and more likely to blow up hospitals.
Von der Leyen told Zelenskyy off the cuff that Ukraine could be considered for EU membership.
She is a bit of a loose cannon.
Never fear, Donald has the solution.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/07/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-jets-chinese
Paper tiger cause that p***k was looking to cut off money to NATO.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 10, 2022, 12:06:10 PM
Paper tiger cause that p***k was looking to cut off money to NATO.
yep.
he also withheld huge military aid to Ukraine over Biden's son and trying to get a favour off the ukrainian president
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 10, 2022, 11:03:07 AM
Never fear, Donald has the solution.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/07/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-jets-chinese
What was it he called himself?
A "stable genius" if I remember correctly.
My seven year old daughter is about as mature in her thinking and analysis as Trump is.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 10, 2022, 12:14:50 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 10, 2022, 12:06:10 PM
Paper tiger cause that p***k was looking to cut off money to NATO.
yep.
he also withheld huge military aid to Ukraine over Biden's son and trying to get a favour off the ukrainian president
Just to be clear
He DELAYED the aid.....he ended up sending it!
More importantly......(which is conveniently ignored by those on the left) is that Obama flat out refused to supply the Ukrainians those same weapons when he was in charge
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6371378
"the Obama administration would only commit to non-lethal support, which included equipment such as body armour, night goggles and helmets"
Plenty of blame to go around.
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 10, 2022, 11:03:07 AM
Never fear, Donald has the solution.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/07/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-jets-chinese
What was it he called himself?
A "stable genius" if I remember correctly.
My seven year old daughter is about as mature in her thinking and analysis as Trump is.
You don't remember correctly, it was in fact a "
very stable genius"
There's far wiser in Stables!!
The US just approved 13.6billion for Ukraine
Hunter will be on the way over to make sure it goes to the most needy with 10% for the big guy of course.
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?
What are you on about?
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
US preventing Poland from giving their MiG's to Ukraine, so yes you're right.
Hungary has been drinking the oul Kool aid recently. Orban's Putin stance is a poor look these days.
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2022, 06:29:01 AM
Von der Leyen told Zelenskyy off the cuff that Ukraine could be considered for EU membership.
She is a bit of a loose cannon.
She might be, although perhaps Ukraine needs more cannons.
Nevertheless, the EU is open to membership of any European country if they meet the requirements.
That said, I do not think that Ukraine should join the EU, a looser EFTA type arrangement would give them more flexibility.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 10, 2022, 05:19:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
US preventing Poland from giving their MiG's to Ukraine, so yes you're right.
poland want to give them to the US and then they give them to Ukraine and the US want them to give them directly to Ukraine neither country wants to be blamed for starting ww3 , in ww2 the US government made Britain pull bombers planes by horse over the Canadian border so they could say they didn't give them directly to the British .
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?
What are you on about?
it's not on cnn or msnbc so don't worry about it , not on fox either so don't come back with that played out line .
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 05:49:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?
What are you on about?
it's not on cnn or msnbc so don't worry about it , not on fox either so don't come back with that played out line .
Ok?
I still don't know what you're on about.
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 05:49:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?
What are you on about?
it's not on cnn or msnbc so don't worry about it , not on fox either so don't come back with that played out line .
Ok?
I still don't know what you're on about.
the eu don't like some policies both countries have implemented so the eu parliament voted to hold back funds from both countries , so if conservative governments are not on board with liberal policies it's tough no funds for you .
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 05:49:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?
What are you on about?
it's not on cnn or msnbc so don't worry about it , not on fox either so don't come back with that played out line .
Ok?
I still don't know what you're on about.
the eu don't like some policies both countries have implemented so the eu parliament voted to hold back funds from both countries , so if conservative governments are not on board with liberal policies it's tough no funds for you .
What policies?
Edit: Never mind.
Found some links: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60400112 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60400112)
https://apnews.com/article/europe-poland-hungary-european-union-46b53e8a6e8fcae054c07c252c274117 (https://apnews.com/article/europe-poland-hungary-european-union-46b53e8a6e8fcae054c07c252c274117)
Ok, given that you're apparently upset enough over this to bring it into this thread, why were the EU wrong to penalize those countries? Do you support the laws and policies they were implementing?
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 05:49:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?
What are you on about?
it's not on cnn or msnbc so don't worry about it , not on fox either so don't come back with that played out line .
Ok?
I still don't know what you're on about.
the eu don't like some policies both countries have implemented so the eu parliament voted to hold back funds from both countries , so if conservative governments are not on board with liberal policies it's tough no funds for you .
You haven't a clue what your talking about. Both countries leaders were trying to push through major reforms of their judiciary that would near render them powerless from politcal intervention. Its the the first step to dictatorship. Ill give you a clue, there is a country that just invaded another whos leader made similar reforms at the outset of his leadership.
That "gmac" has sunk lower into idiocy than even the thickest yank.
What a sad state for an Irish person to end up in.
Perhaps tanks are almost useless if you have good anti-tank weapons? Shoot the first one and the rest jam up.
(https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F242bec50-a067-11ec-8ce7-bca52805f9d4.jpg?crop=576%2C720%2C352%2C0&resize=600)
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2022, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 05:49:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?
What are you on about?
it's not on cnn or msnbc so don't worry about it , not on fox either so don't come back with that played out line .
Ok?
I still don't know what you're on about.
the eu don't like some policies both countries have implemented so the eu parliament voted to hold back funds from both countries , so if conservative governments are not on board with liberal policies it's tough no funds for you .
You haven't a clue what your talking about. Both countries leaders were trying to push through major reforms of their judiciary that would near render them powerless from politcal intervention. Its the the first step to dictatorship. Ill give you a clue, there is a country that just invaded another whos leader made similar reforms at the outset of his leadership.
you don't cut off countries from funds they need during a refugee crisis , but like they say never let a crisis go to waste .
Who's they?
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 07:23:39 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2022, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 05:49:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won't go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?
What are you on about?
it's not on cnn or msnbc so don't worry about it , not on fox either so don't come back with that played out line .
Ok?
I still don't know what you're on about.
the eu don't like some policies both countries have implemented so the eu parliament voted to hold back funds from both countries , so if conservative governments are not on board with liberal policies it's tough no funds for you .
You haven't a clue what your talking about. Both countries leaders were trying to push through major reforms of their judiciary that would near render them powerless from politcal intervention. Its the the first step to dictatorship. Ill give you a clue, there is a country that just invaded another whos leader made similar reforms at the outset of his leadership.
you don't cut off countries from funds they need during a refugee crisis , but like they say never let a crisis go to waste .
This issue long precedes the war and refugee crisis. Even the court ruling confirming they could withhold the funds preceded the invasion by a week. One's got nothing to do with the other.
And I'm pretty sure the EU will not be found wanting when it comes to providing money to deal with the humanitarian issues.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2022, 06:37:08 PM
That "gmac" has sunk lower into idiocy than even the thickest yank.
What a sad state for an Irish person to end up in.
we have different political opinions, I don't need to abuse people over them and call posters stupid and thick , you on the other hand proved how dumb you are by not understanding simple percentages on another thread .
S they said in Kelly Heroes, a tank (Tiger for that instance, if u know anything about tanks) is geared up for direct conflict on open country. Totally not suited for urban warfare and the advancement on rocket launchers has greatly reduced the effect of Tank warfare unlike WW2.
Look....Trump is and was an absolute clown, but Obama
(1) Completely underestimated Putin (actually laughed at Romney)
(2) Did nothing of consequence when he invaded Crime
(3) Would not give the Ukrainians the arms they were asking for
Was Trump right to hold the Germans to account for not contributing their fair share-absolutely 100%
Was he wrong to attempt to extort Zelensly to investigate the Biden's-Absoluetly 100 %
But some of the clowns on here trying to put all the blame on Trump should take a serious look at the facts
Money means more to the entitled, most folk are c***ts me me me me.
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.
I think he might have thrown a bit of reality on the history how we got here.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
We all feared Trump.
Quote from: Average Score on March 10, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.
Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
I am sure Putin is very worried about trump... A man who has continually praised Putin and has lots of business ties to Russia.
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 10, 2022, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 10, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.
Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.
Eh ? After the Salisbury poisoning he reckoned we shouldn't jump to conclusions and wanted samples of the poison sent to the Kremlin for analysis ???
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 10, 2022, 11:01:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
I am sure Putin is very worried about trump... A man who has continually praised Putin and has lots of business ties to Russia.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/battle-syria-us-russian-mercenaries-commandos-islamic-state-a8370781.html
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 10, 2022, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 10, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.
Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.
corbyn a shambles
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 10, 2022, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 10, 2022, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 10, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.
Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.
Eh ? After the Salisbury poisoning he reckoned we shouldn't jump to conclusions and wanted samples of the poison sent to the Kremlin for analysis ???
Corbyn wanted actual hard evidence against Russia in order to fully prove they did it. Beside what was the UK response to the poisoning... They expelled a few diplomats, hardly a strong punishment.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/jeremy-corbyns-2001-warning-about-valdimir-putin-resurfaces-314188/amp/
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs
Quote from: ONeill on March 10, 2022, 10:47:25 PM
I think he might have thrown a bit of reality on the history how we got here.
Because at this moment in time a history lesson is what is needed.
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 11, 2022, 07:05:18 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 10, 2022, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 10, 2022, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 10, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.
Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.
Eh ? After the Salisbury poisoning he reckoned we shouldn't jump to conclusions and wanted samples of the poison sent to the Kremlin for analysis ???
Corbyn wanted actual hard evidence against Russia in order to fully prove they did it. Beside what was the UK response to the poisoning... They expelled a few diplomats, hardly a strong punishment.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/jeremy-corbyns-2001-warning-about-valdimir-putin-resurfaces-314188/amp/
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs
The arguments against Corbyn were that he was weak on national security, weak on the economy and antisemitic.
The real reason they hated him.was because he wanted to change the system
.Half of Brits earn less than 30k
He was shafted. The establishment didn't want him.
Agreed. The rich didn't want change. The Tories have destroyed the economy and are weak on national security.
Their corruption seems to know no bounds. I don't know how they are stopped.
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 10, 2022, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 10, 2022, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: Average Score on March 10, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.
Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.
Eh ? After the Salisbury poisoning he reckoned we shouldn't jump to conclusions and wanted samples of the poison sent to the Kremlin for analysis ???
Corbyn did the opposite in fact.
he wanted a proper investigation
sure the Tories didn't even bother investigating russian interference in the brexit vote
There is a russia report. It hasn't been scrutinised particularly much for some reason though...
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2022, 11:33:25 AM
There is a russia report. It hasn't been scrutinised particularly much for some reason though...
Wasn't sure but it was released in 2020 and sure Boris throws out this line when asked to comment on it;;
UK elections and EU Referendum
"[Paragraph 47] ...Whilst the issues at stake in the EU referendum campaign are less
clear-cut, it is nonetheless the Committee's view that the UK intelligence and security
community should produce an analogous assessment of potential Russian interference in
the EU referendum and that an unclassified summary of it be published."
We have seen no evidence of successful interference in the EU Referendum.I don't they looked overly hard for evidence of wrongdoing in the EU referendum as it was there in plain sight with the dark money and Aaron Banks connections even causing concern for fellow UKIPers..
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FM_wftOXIAAq4Nb?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-casualtie-idUSKCN1FZ2DZ
Trump knew about this up front, Biden shite the tights.
https://gript.ie/irish-senators-claim-that-women-are-wars-main-victims-is-absurd/
More pure & utter WAP shit from the far left & left overs, fair play to the gript for highlighting it.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.
Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.
If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 12:36:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.
Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.
If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.
The world would be much better place if reasonable people in Russia and the USA would rid themselves of Putin and Trump.
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 12:36:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.
Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.
If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.
Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 12:36:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.
Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.
If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.
Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts
What does this mean?
Which oil fields has Biden shut down?
Are US oil companies struggling for supply?
US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 02:24:35 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 12:36:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.
Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.
If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.
Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts
What does this mean?
Which oil fields has Biden shut down?
Are US oil companies struggling for supply?
US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)
is this Jen psaki ?
Quote from: Gmac on March 11, 2022, 02:36:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 02:24:35 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 12:36:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.
Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.
If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.
Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts
What does this mean?
Which oil fields has Biden shut down?
Are US oil companies struggling for supply?
US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)
is this Jen psaki ?
Do YOU have any worthwhile to add?
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 02:24:35 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 12:36:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.
Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.
If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.
Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts
What does this mean?
Which oil fields has Biden shut down?
Are US oil companies struggling for supply?
US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/8/biden-cancels-oil-while-americans-suffer-and-the-w/?utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=chacka&utm_campaign=TWT+-+DSA&gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0BbUx2r3ntaLuUhfTY22k2r1H738zAMPHl0igKCcV0pE6j1y7tN6QBoCXxwQAvD_BwE
Does anyone else think the backlash against ordinary Russians is way over the top lots of examples kicking ballet dancers out of shows , classical musicians getting removed , Russian restaurants getting vandalized, Russian students getting removed in certain countries .
Bitching about a bully but acting like them on a smaller scale at the same time .
Not as harsh as the unprovoked backlash against ordinary Ukrainians.
Unfortunately for Ukraine right now, it is much more desirable that Putin is replaced by disgruntled Russians rather than being forced out of office, an after effect from a dirty war v NATO. The economic sanctions are the best method where the freezing of Russian state assets and other sanctions enacted by US and EU, a widespread populist boycott of Russia (economic, cultural and sporting), supported by multinational companies refusing to do business.
All these sanctions and boycotts add to the urgency for the Russian people to act and replace the current government with one that is more conducive to status quo world relations.
I think the USA had done their intelligence homework and were well ahead of the EU in recognizing the inevitability of war. All Biden had to do was listen to the intelligence and act according to that advice, everything has been handed to him on a plate. I doubt Trump would have listened and acted in accordance with the intelligence agencies.
With Trump sidelined, Democrats and Republicans can find enough common ground for agreed action.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 02:24:35 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 12:36:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.
Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.
If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.
Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts
What does this mean?
Which oil fields has Biden shut down?
Are US oil companies struggling for supply?
US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/8/biden-cancels-oil-while-americans-suffer-and-the-w/?utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=chacka&utm_campaign=TWT+-+DSA&gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0BbUx2r3ntaLuUhfTY22k2r1H738zAMPHl0igKCcV0pE6j1y7tN6QBoCXxwQAvD_BwE
Rowan Scarborough. Never heard of him before, but a quick look at his bio shows he had to issue an apology for alleging that facial recognition tech had "identified" Antifa agitators among the Jan 6 mob. And he also wrote this: "Rumsfeld's War: The Untold Story of America's Anti-Terrorist Commander". Published by Regeneron of course. :D
Anyway... to the point...
1. ANWR has been a political lightning rod for nearly 50 years. The GOP have been trying to open it all through all that time. I can remember it being a Fox News nightly staple 15-20 years ago as they showed ludicrous photos of a couple of caribou walking around under a pipeline to show that oil field development would have "zero" impact on an internationally important ecological preserve.
Do you know when Trump sold those leases you? Jan 6 2021 (I shit you not :D). There wasn't even the beginning of planning for production at that point.
Do you know how many of the 22 leases were sold? 11. Do you know how many were bought by oil companies? ZERO. And those leases are now, correctly, suspended while the environmental impact review and legal process the Trump admin "undertook" is investigated.
2. Keystone XL – another political lightning rod and another one that hasn't seen a drop of actual existing production shut down. One 1200 mile pipeline that has been in the news for the last decade as a red line for both sides (there are 3 millions miles of oil and gas pipelines in the US). And it was proposed and partially constructed to transport extremely dirty Alberta (i.e. Canadian) tar sand crude, which the oil companies were already moving away from despite provincial funding there because it is so expensive to move and refine.
3. On the suspension of new leasing on US public lands: what percentage of existing leases are currently under production? How much US public land is currently available for exploitation? Is lack of supply a problem? Biden put 80 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico up for lease sales last year. Only 1.7 million were bought. His administration issue 3500 oil and gas permits in 2021, 900 more than Trump did in 2017.
So is the Biden administration actually hampering US oil and gas production, or are conservatives just crying because he put the kibosh on two politically-explosive projects and ceased issuing new leases on public lands?
It is just a way to try and get Putin out from within (or bumped off or whatever - I imagine that would also be a successful outcome for them).
It's a funny one because a concern I would have had would have been it would push Russians who were not interested in conflict etc into being interested (a form of radicalisation I guess) but then this is being completely offset by how Russians are being treated within their own country during this war so in light of that I do think a lot blame Putin. There's buck all they can do about it mind you but the hope would be they eventually will or someone within eventually will.
Quote from: Gmac on March 11, 2022, 04:11:34 PM
Does anyone else think the backlash against ordinary Russians is way over the top lots of examples kicking ballet dancers out of shows , classical musicians getting removed , Russian restaurants getting vandalized, Russian students getting removed in certain countries .
Bitching about a bully but acting like them on a smaller scale at the same time .
The Russian government chose this. Other than going to actual war with them, what alternative is there?
I'm sure if there were some way of getting Putin and his minions to stop, withdraw and pay Ukraine for the murder and destruction WITHOUT hurting the Russian people themselves, then the rest of the world would go down that path.
They should just thank their lucky stars they're not being murdered or driven out of their homes and country like the Ukrainians are, or like many other civilian populatiosn whose governments have been engaged in war have been in the past.
That said, if you have ideas about how this SHOULD be conducted...
However, it IS an interesting question.
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 02:24:35 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 12:36:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.
Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.
If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.
Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts
What does this mean?
Which oil fields has Biden shut down?
Are US oil companies struggling for supply?
US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/8/biden-cancels-oil-while-americans-suffer-and-the-w/?utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=chacka&utm_campaign=TWT+-+DSA&gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0BbUx2r3ntaLuUhfTY22k2r1H738zAMPHl0igKCcV0pE6j1y7tN6QBoCXxwQAvD_BwE
Rowan Scarborough. Never heard of him before, but a quick look at his bio shows he had to issue an apology for alleging that facial recognition tech had "identified" Antifa agitators among the Jan 6 mob. And he also wrote this: "Rumsfeld's War: The Untold Story of America's Anti-Terrorist Commander". Published by Regeneron of course. :D
Anyway... to the point...
1. ANWR has been a political lightning rod for nearly 50 years. The GOP have been trying to open it all through all that time. I can remember it being a Fox News nightly staple 15-20 years ago as they showed ludicrous photos of a couple of caribou walking around under a pipeline to show that oil field development would have "zero" impact on an internationally important ecological preserve.
Do you know when Trump sold those leases you? Jan 6 2021 (I shit you not :D). There wasn't even the beginning of planning for production at that point.
Do you know how many of the 22 leases were sold? 11. Do you know how many were bought by oil companies? ZERO. And those leases are now, correctly, suspended while the environmental impact review and legal process the Trump admin "undertook" is investigated.
2. Keystone XL – another political lightning rod and another one that hasn't seen a drop of actual existing production shut down. One 1200 mile pipeline that has been in the news for the last decade as a red line for both sides (there are 3 millions miles of oil and gas pipelines in the US). And it was proposed and partially constructed to transport extremely dirty Alberta (i.e. Canadian) tar sand crude, which the oil companies were already moving away from despite provincial funding there because it is so expensive to move and refine.
3. On the suspension of new leasing on US public lands: what percentage of existing leases are currently under production? How much US public land is currently available for exploitation? Is lack of supply a problem? Biden put 80 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico up for lease sales last year. Only 1.7 million were bought. His administration issue 3500 oil and gas permits in 2021, 900 more than Trump did in 2017.
So is the Biden administration actually hampering US oil and gas production, or are conservatives just crying because he put the kibosh on two politically-explosive projects and ceased issuing new leases on public lands?
Can the biden administration get us out the supply diffs? Quick answer , btw I don't know , genuine question
No clue.
Off the top of my head (and I could be talking utter shite!) I would assume that oil companies are looking at ramping up production as we speak. But, I doubt if its as easy as turning on a tap. I'm sure there'll be a tonne of people to be hired and equipment purchased or put back into service at all points in the process from bedrock to delivery to the petrol station. Who knows what effects these chronic supply chain issues will have, especially with Russia off the table now.
I've seen headlines about them playing footsie with Maduro. How much there is to that and whether that's a plan to bring Venezuela back in, I've no idea. I would have thought the "turning on the tap" question would be even MORE applicable to them, but again, just talking shite here.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 08:04:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2022, 07:50:25 PM
No clue.
Off the top of my head (and I could be talking utter shite!) I would assume that oil companies are looking at ramping up production as we speak. But, I doubt if its as easy as turning on a tap. I'm sure there'll be a tonne of people to be hired and equipment purchased or put back into service at all points in the process from bedrock to delivery to the petrol station. Who knows what effects these chronic supply chain issues will have, especially with Russia off the table now.
I've seen headlines about them playing footsie with Maduro. How much there is to that and whether that's a plan to bring Venezuela back in, I've no idea. I would have thought the "turning on the tap" question would be even MORE applicable to them, but again, just talking shite here.
You talk good level shite to be fair. Well read. Thanks for response
Lots of Politicians in the USA have recently invested in oil company stocks which are heading for record highs , some will bs about pumping more oil some will say that we can handle the pain at the pump all are hoping it keeps getting higher before they offload them , the most corrupt carry on you could ever witness, but all legal of course and All with prior knowledge of what would happen in Ukraine.
One thing which had come our of this, Russia is not geared up for a full confrontation with Europe, Their airforce would take a hammering in the air, the threat of nuclear weapons is all Putin has, for years the west was worried about the tank capacity of the Ussr, thing advances in technology have made tanks in general a busted flush. The era of artillery barrage has unfortunately not gone away.
Out of interest would the Israeli Iron dome system be any sort of defence against the sort of shelling we are seeing in Ukraine?
The tories will spin this on how tough they are on immigration and will win next election
Quote from: HiMucker on March 11, 2022, 10:51:34 PM
Out of interest would the Israeli Iron dome system be any sort of defence against the sort of shelling we are seeing in Ukraine?
The Israelis apparently blocked sale of Iron Dome to Ukraine last year.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 11, 2022, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 11, 2022, 10:51:34 PM
Out of interest would the Israeli Iron dome system be any sort of defence against the sort of shelling we are seeing in Ukraine?
The Israelis apparently blocked sale of Iron Dome to Ukraine last year.
Because Russia runs Syria . Russia is right next door.
https://www.ft.com/content/5a365f22-e751-4db6-b111-5c858c8236c7
City officials in Mariupol this week said they had confirmed the deaths of 1,300 people. "These are the ones they could count," Romanenko said. "A lot of people are buried under destroyed buildings, and they can't count them. There are still bodies lying around everywhere." Gurin, the MP, told the FT that Russia had decided to resort to "mass murder" because it had thus far been unable to win the war
https://www.americanpurpose.com/articles/preparing-for-defeat/
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2022, 07:39:38 AM
https://www.americanpurpose.com/articles/preparing-for-defeat/
There is a probably a kernal of truth in that, but i'd say a tad optimistic. Putin is going to flatten Ukraine before its all over and by the looks of things draw NATO into the conflict.
The chemical weapons thing could be the final straw I think :(
Ukraine will be flattened too with or without them.
Quote from: grounded on March 13, 2022, 12:42:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2022, 07:39:38 AM
https://www.americanpurpose.com/articles/preparing-for-defeat/
There is a probably a kernal of truth in that, but i'd say a tad optimistic. Putin is going to flatten Ukraine before its all over and by the looks of things draw NATO into the conflict.
Whatever happens Putin loses
If he flattens Ukraine he has to occupy it. There is no brotherhood between Russians and Ukrainians now.
I thought China was the only country could end this - they could escalate it!
The US says China will face harsh "consequences" if it aids Russia in its invasion of Ukraine, according to US media reports.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486)
Quote from: Average Score on March 14, 2022, 08:17:38 AM
I thought China was the only country could end this - they could escalate it!
The US says China will face harsh "consequences" if it aids Russia in its invasion of Ukraine, according to US media reports.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486)
China is in a hole. It expected a short war. The country is the world's largest importer of wheat and oil. The longer the war lasts, the higher prices will go. The economy is weakening..
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2022, 08:50:28 AM
Quote from: Average Score on March 14, 2022, 08:17:38 AM
I thought China was the only country could end this - they could escalate it!
The US says China will face harsh "consequences" if it aids Russia in its invasion of Ukraine, according to US media reports.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486)
China is in a hole. It expected a short war. The country is the world's largest importer of wheat and oil. The longer the war lasts, the higher prices will go. The economy is weakening..
Surely is an absolute embarrassment to Putin and Russia. They are supposed to be a world super power but can not manage to overtake Ukraine. Now they are having to ask for help from China. No doubt the Russian generals where telling Putin how quickly they could stream roll Ukraine as they are a far too afraid of him to be honest with him.
Putin has seriously messed this up and instead of showing the world how much of a superpower they are he has shown the world what they really are. A corrupt country relying on nukes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiY83iWcbcA
Brand showing Trudeau for what he is
Quote from: Rudi on March 14, 2022, 10:49:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiY83iWcbcA
Brand showing Trudeau for what he is
Id rather listen to Jo Brand to be honest
Russell Brand ffs the guy that turned up at Twadell and gave the caravan muppets the time of day
https://www.ft.com/content/d129e110-9977-49c3-99ab-eb2b526b03ae
"The basic reality seems to me that Ukraine has lost Crimea and the eastern Donbas and Russia has lost Ukraine. Countless thousands of Ukrainians and Russians will die before any of the parties involved recognise this."
Russia gonna give back East Prussua? What make you think it part of Russia to start with.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 14, 2022, 09:57:17 PM
Russia gonna give back East Prussua? What make you think it part of Russia to start with.
The obvious solution is to give it Ukraine as compensation.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/tae-chilli-con-carne-and-cola-bottles-are-among-the-items-sent-in-ration-packs-to-ukrainian-soldiers-from-ireland-41456283.html
Wimbledon talking about Banning Russian tennis players who have family in Russia if they don't denounce Putin t
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2022, 02:20:33 PM
Wimbledon talking about Banning Russian tennis players who have family in Russia if they don't denounce Putin t
Weird one.
Just ban russian players as unfair as that seems to some it just clears things up.
Does the UK not see the hypocritics they all are. They bombed the shite out of bagbad and other cities for weeks trying to knock out artillery and anti missile systems. The amount of civilians killed during that had to be tens of thousand. At least we bombed the shite out of nobody, so we can say what going on in Ukraine is so wrong. The UK hasn't much of a leg to stand on.
It is hypocritical but at the same time it doesnt sit right having russians playing tennis aroud the world as if nothing is happening whilst their army flattens ukranian cities. God knows how many died in that theatre alone. The argument that ah but sure the brits did this and the Us did that doesnt somehow excuse russias actions.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 17, 2022, 03:44:00 PM
It is hypocritical but at the same time it doesnt sit right having russians playing tennis aroud the world as if nothing is happening whilst their army flattens ukranian cities. God knows how many died in that theatre alone. The argument that ah but sure the brits did this and the Us did that doesnt somehow excuse russias actions.
I suppose it's the double standards that sticks a bit fellow Johnny...
There's numerous examples of it around the world
But you can't punish every citizen of a country because of that countries actions.
The UK and US aren't the moral authorities they set themselves up as, given Iraq especially but that shouldn't be used to deflect from the atrocities being inflicted by Russia right now.
How are any football teams going to Qatar for the World Cup ?
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2022, 04:15:17 PM
How are any football teams going to Qatar for the World Cup ?
32
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 17, 2022, 04:25:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2022, 04:15:17 PM
How are any football teams going to Qatar for the World Cup ?
32
yes with their rainbow flags and kneeling for social justice , all fake
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 17, 2022, 04:11:00 PM
But you can't punish every citizen of a country because of that countries actions.
It's sort of like a peaceful protest. They are the minor victims in this war. If stopping a war causes a slight blip in their sporting career - so be it!
Sadly the world is full of double standards. A big example of one these days is people calling out people as sheep for listening to the "MSM" because they believe it to believe "it" to be full of propagandist nonsense yet they read and believe stuff they read from "non MSM" which is also full of propagandist nonsense then they don't see the irony in it.
It's a pity the ordinary decent Russian will suffer it really is but with how bonkers your man is they do need to do something but tread carefully. Is it the right thing to do? I dunno that it is but then what is?
Like anything there is some political, and probably economical, opportunism going on too. It is just impossible to know what the right thing to do here without provoking world war three which many believe has begun anyway.
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 17, 2022, 04:11:00 PM
But you can't punish every citizen of a country because of that countries actions.
Yip, Boris Johnson has been peddling that line for weeks in relation to the Oligarchs.. ;)
Quote from: Gmac on March 17, 2022, 04:15:17 PM
How are any football teams going to Qatar for the World Cup ?
Indeed.
Another one, equally uncomfortable for most in the West (not just the USA).
Once upon a time, there was a country in the middle east with a largely secular government, and separation between religion and state. Elections that were widely believed to be open, fair and democratic. Yes, there were problems, including the unpredictability of a monarch still having an unduly large sway in matters, but it was heading the right direction.
Then, for self-serving reasons*, external actors overthrew the elected government of Mohammad Mosaddegh.
That was in 1953.
We're still compounding that error by doing deals with the known devils in the house of Saud rather than give the people of Iran the chance to take back their country. Its probably too late now. Those that knew democracy and understood it was worth fighting to regain are either dead or extremely old at this point.
*paranoia and greed
Quote from: johnnycool on March 17, 2022, 03:47:27 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 17, 2022, 03:44:00 PM
It is hypocritical but at the same time it doesnt sit right having russians playing tennis aroud the world as if nothing is happening whilst their army flattens ukranian cities. God knows how many died in that theatre alone. The argument that ah but sure the brits did this and the Us did that doesnt somehow excuse russias actions.
I suppose it's the double standards that sticks a bit fellow Johnny...
There's numerous examples of it around the world
Along with economic sanctions and a cultural boycott there was a sporting boycott of South Africa enacted during the apartheid era, not lifted until Nelson Mandela walked free, free elections announced and end of the Apartheid system.
The difference then was that it had all started from the bottom, building popular support and popular movements. The boycott and sanctions hurt everybody in SA, probably hit people at the bottom more, but every sanction and every boycott had the total support of the ANC who promoted such worldwide resistance. I had no issues then with aspects of obvious hypocrisy in the boycott what trumped all debate was that the Apartheid system had to be smashed and in a similar way Russia has to be similarly boycotted and sanctioned on all levels.
Yes, nobody has ever succeeded with sanctions when the USA starts wars. NATO doesn't start wars generally, it's the USA who starts wars, Nato either stands idly by or joins in later at some stage.
The Glenamaddy school bus
https://www.rte.ie/news/ukraine/2022/0317/1287032-irish-abroad/
Quote from: Main Street on March 17, 2022, 08:30:39 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 17, 2022, 03:47:27 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 17, 2022, 03:44:00 PM
It is hypocritical but at the same time it doesnt sit right having russians playing tennis aroud the world as if nothing is happening whilst their army flattens ukranian cities. God knows how many died in that theatre alone. The argument that ah but sure the brits did this and the Us did that doesnt somehow excuse russias actions.
I suppose it's the double standards that sticks a bit fellow Johnny...
There's numerous examples of it around the world
Along with economic sanctions and a cultural boycott there was a sporting boycott of South Africa enacted during the apartheid era, not lifted until Nelson Mandela walked free, free elections announced and end of the Apartheid system.
The difference then was that it had all started from the bottom, building popular support and popular movements. The boycott and sanctions hurt everybody in SA, probably hit people at the bottom more, but every sanction and every boycott had the total support of the ANC who promoted such worldwide resistance. I had no issues then with aspects of obvious hypocrisy in the boycott what trumped all debate was that the Apartheid system had to be smashed and in a similar way Russia has to be similarly boycotted and sanctioned on all levels.
Yes, nobody has ever succeeded with sanctions when the USA starts wars. NATO doesn't start wars generally, it's the USA who starts wars, Nato either stands idly by or joins in later at some stage.
Apartheid was a brutal regime, but South Africa is run by gangsters at the minute, it's not a nice place
It's kind of hard to look round the world these days and find a country that isn't run by gangsters - they just come in various forms :(
https://www.ft.com/content/b153eb2e-c4ed-4d9d-b854-cbfa98038f21
Gustav Gressel, a Berlin-based analyst of Russian foreign and defence policy at the European Council on Foreign Relations said he believed the talks to be a Russian tactical ploy.
"I am always very sceptical about Russians negotiating," he said. "We saw it repeatedly in Syria. The West or the Turks go in with these high hopes that the Russians are ready to change their position and de-escalate and it always turns out not to be the case."
Yeah I think that is a widely held belief.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2022, 08:16:59 AM
Apartheid was a brutal regime, but South Africa is run by gangsters at the minute, it's not a nice place
One problem is that a place run by gangsters tends to have an immature political culture, so one lot are replaced by another. Hence you have the Soviet crowd replaced by the equally unpleasant Putinists, or the Taliban swapping places with an out and out corrupt government in Afghanistan.
Well what about here The majority pick Dup and, Sinn Fein all the time, I think there been a working govt here 10out of 24yrs.But we complain a the time about how crap they are, but come election time pick the same side, expecting something different, then blame the same shit on the other side. When we are selfs are to blame for what happens in N Ireland. I honestly like to see Alliance get a chance at it here as the current setup doesn't cut it.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 18, 2022, 12:38:47 PM
Well what about here The majority pick Dup and, Sinn Fein all the time, I think there been a working govt here 10out of 24yrs.But we complain a the time about how crap they are, but come election time pick the same side, expecting something different, then blame the same shit on the other side. When we are selfs are to blame for what happens in N Ireland. I honestly like to see Alliance get a chance at it here as the current setup doesn't cut it.
There's the good old, ones as bad as the other mantra right there...
Enforced coalition makes it near on impossible to implement the changes required and more often than not it's the DUP holding everything up, think 3 YR budget, every other party agreed with Murphy's proposed budget but not the DUP, so no budget...
Shinners make plenty of f**k ups of their own without taking the hit for the DUP's as well..
The NI opposition parties appear to be more rational, with the obvious exception of the batshit TUV.
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2022, 06:13:00 PM
The NI opposition parties appear to be more rational, with the obvious exception of the batshit TUV.
NI parties don't do rational or basic common sense. If they did Stormont wouldn't be the shit show it is. Stormont is an example of how not to govern. Two parties on completely opposite sides who refuse to compromise. In years to come it'll be a case study on ignorance, stupidity and bigotry
Many thousands at a event in Moscow today to celebrate Annexation of Crimea. Putin the main event talking to his deluded followers.
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2022, 03:41:05 AM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.
They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:02:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2022, 03:41:05 AM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.
They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.
I'm almost 100% certain they wear a primarily blue uniform. I have been watching among the stars documentary with Chris Cassidy
Quote from: Solo_run on March 19, 2022, 09:12:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:02:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2022, 03:41:05 AM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.
They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.
I'm almost 100% certain they wear a primarily blue uniform. I have been watching among the stars documentary with Chris Cassidy
Nah there's photos online going back to 2014 in the yellow uniforms. If they were making an anti Putin message they wouldn't have big Russian flags on their chest. It's a non story that the Russians are laughing at.
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:17:27 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 19, 2022, 09:12:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:02:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2022, 03:41:05 AM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.
They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.
I'm almost 100% certain they wear a primarily blue uniform. I have been watching among the stars documentary with Chris Cassidy
Nah there's photos online going back to 2014 in the yellow uniforms. If they were making an anti Putin message they wouldn't have big Russian flags on their chest. It's a non story that the Russians are laughing at.
Any photos? Have always seen them in blue
Quote from: Solo_run on March 19, 2022, 09:25:26 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:17:27 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 19, 2022, 09:12:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:02:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2022, 03:41:05 AM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.
They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.
I'm almost 100% certain they wear a primarily blue uniform. I have been watching among the stars documentary with Chris Cassidy
Nah there's photos online going back to 2014 in the yellow uniforms. If they were making an anti Putin message they wouldn't have big Russian flags on their chest. It's a non story that the Russians are laughing at.
Any photos? Have always seen them in blue
https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/536436494278602752 (https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/536436494278602752)
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:31:03 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 19, 2022, 09:25:26 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:17:27 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 19, 2022, 09:12:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:02:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2022, 03:41:05 AM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.
They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.
I'm almost 100% certain they wear a primarily blue uniform. I have been watching among the stars documentary with Chris Cassidy
Nah there's photos online going back to 2014 in the yellow uniforms. If they were making an anti Putin message they wouldn't have big Russian flags on their chest. It's a non story that the Russians are laughing at.
Any photos? Have always seen them in blue
https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/536436494278602752 (https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/536436494278602752)
Any other photos where yellow uniforms were used in a time where Russia was trying to force it's will on Ukraine? 2014 was the annexation of Crimea. Later that year a Russian astronaut wore yellow. Astronauts typically wear blue regardless of nationality. Today there were Russian astronauts in Yellow a few weeks after the invasion of Ukraine. I wouldn't expect the astronauts to come out and say anything as there would be consequences on roscosmos. Then again, like you said could be Western media stirring things up
Free to read
Russia, Ukraine and Europe's 200-year quest for peace
https://www.ft.com/content/567107fa-2760-452b-8452-e656ca5ca478
The usual suspects from the People Before Profit - Anti Everything Alliance refuse to applaud to Zelensky in the Dail today.
The useful eejits phrase comes to mind.
Quote from: Don Cockburn on April 06, 2022, 12:49:29 PM
The usual suspects from the People Before Profit - Anti Everything Alliance refuse to applaud to Zelensky in the Dail today.
People before profit are far left, Zelensky is far right. Zelensky is not exactly a good boy either. People before profit are bell ends of the highest order, its a poor reflection on irish politics that these yokes have any mandate at all.
What has Zelensky done that makes him a bad boy, genuine question.
time to change their name to death before people bombs before people or putin before people
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 06, 2022, 02:44:52 PM
What has Zelensky done that makes him a bad boy, genuine question.
No expert but he's rumoured to have dodgy millions in off shore bank accounts, no idea how true any of it is.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
Quote from: tc_manchester on April 06, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
That's a complicated read but it appears he may have put some of his wealth offshore before becoming president. I'm not sure that shows that he's an extreme right winger which is what some of the posts on here are inferring.
Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest.
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 06, 2022, 03:46:45 PM
Quote from: tc_manchester on April 06, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
That's a complicated read but it appears he may have put some of his wealth offshore before becoming president. I'm not sure that shows that he's an extreme right winger which is what some of the posts on here are inferring.
Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest.
that's what my reading of it is as well - the money looks like it came from his acting career and he's not the first entertainer to hide his money from the local taxman - not the best look if you decide to suddenly become a politician. I haven't seen anything showing a rabid right winger as being alluded to on this discussion. At the end of the day if he had all this money stashed away he could have ran to the US when offered the chance instead of staying in Kiev
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 06, 2022, 03:46:45 PM
Quote from: tc_manchester on April 06, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest.
Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.
Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
A few threads on this board I think illustrate a lot don't understand what a right winger is. Tbh it seems to be one of those terms the world is redefining.
I can't put my finger on it but something doesn't feel right to me about Zelensky.
Quote from: burdizzo on April 06, 2022, 04:56:53 PM
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 06, 2022, 03:46:45 PM
Quote from: tc_manchester on April 06, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest.
Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.
Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime, millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.
Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.
There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.
Yeah I think he is no more than shady and would agree with that. If the things being said wrt war crimes are to be believed then there is a very special place in hell for putin and many of those soldiers. I don't know how this ends tbh.
Quote from: Main Street on April 06, 2022, 05:20:07 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 06, 2022, 04:56:53 PM
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 06, 2022, 03:46:45 PM
Quote from: tc_manchester on April 06, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest.
Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.
Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime, millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.
only if you are Russia, the West is held to very different standards..
Quote from: Don Cockburn on April 06, 2022, 05:52:00 PM
Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.
There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.
I have not seen anyone with an admiration for Putin, I have seen a few who mistakenly think not looking at it as all Russia/Russians bad and all Ukraine/Ukrainians good as having an admiration for the invasion or support for Putin
https://www.rte.ie/news/ukraine/2022/0406/1290846-oleksandr-zavhorodniy/
Guy killed in Ukraine who used to work in Aldi in Sandyford in Dublin, a shop I have been in from time to time.
Quote from: Don Cockburn on April 06, 2022, 05:52:00 PM
Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.
There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.
The position of Barett and his ilk in response to the unwarranted invasion and wholesale destruction is pathetic. To claim that a response to the invasion is to call for an international movement to pressurise Russia and NATO to cease aggressive ways and negotiate. Don't send military support to Ukraine as it will only prolong the war. That's nothing short of saying Ukraine should have surrendered
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2022, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 06, 2022, 05:20:07 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 06, 2022, 04:56:53 PM
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 06, 2022, 03:46:45 PM
Quote from: tc_manchester on April 06, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest.
Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.
Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime, millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.
only if you are Russia, the West is held to very different standards..
There were sustained mass protests all over the world against the Iraq war. The birth of modern anti war protest was the Vietnam War. There were no such mass protests against the destruction of Chechnya or Syria.
Regardless, 2 wrongs don't make a right, the lack of condemnation of USA warmongering or Israeli aggression does not make an iota of difference when it comes to condemning Russia for this war. And it's fallacious to keep popping up with this piece of whataboutery.
Quote from: Main Street on April 06, 2022, 07:15:17 PM
Quote from: Don Cockburn on April 06, 2022, 05:52:00 PM
Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.
There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.
The position of Barett and his ilk in response to the unwarranted invasion and wholesale destruction is pathetic. To claim that a response to the invasion is to call for an international movement to pressurise Russia and NATO to cease aggressive ways and negotiate. Don't send military support to Ukraine as it will only prolong the war. That's nothing short of saying Ukraine should have surrenderedQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2022, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 06, 2022, 05:20:07 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on April 06, 2022, 04:56:53 PM
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 06, 2022, 03:46:45 PM
Quote from: tc_manchester on April 06, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest.
Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.
Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime, millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.
only if you are Russia, the West is held to very different standards..
There were sustained mass protests all over the world against the Iraq war. The birth of modern anti war protest was the Vietnam War. There were no such mass protests against the destruction of Chechnya or Syria.
Regardless, 2 wrongs don't make a right, the lack of condemnation of USA warmongering or Israeli aggression does not make an iota of difference when it comes to condemning Russia for this war. And it's fallacious to keep popping up with this piece of whataboutery.
firstly, again it's not saying Ukraine has to surrender. It is saying the war will end, like all wars... all efforts should be towards ending the war not prolonging it. There are a number of recent examples where pumping more weapons into countries hasn't worked and only leads to more prolonged loss of lives.
the unnecessary of loss of life in Ukriane is no more important than the lives of those in Palestine, Yemen etc. yet I don't see sanctions or weapons being provided to them. The hypocrisy of the West must be called out. It has never been clearer,
And whom is going call this out, the world is fucked be surprised if humanity has a few hundred years left all funded by the greed of a few and the inability of the masses.
Quote from: Average Score on April 06, 2022, 10:12:43 PM
And whom is going call this out, the world is fucked be surprised if humanity has a few hundred years left all funded by the greed of a few and the inability of the masses.
Humans are the biggest scourge ever put on this planet.
Quote from: burdizzo on April 06, 2022, 04:56:53 PM
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 06, 2022, 03:46:45 PM
Quote from: tc_manchester on April 06, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest.
Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.
Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
Heh? Was he out killing people when he was playing president on a TV show, before he got elected to the actual role in 2019. Now that is a bad actor!!!
TOOYFA!!!!
Richard Barrett (and peers) position is a curious hypocrisy. He claims arming Ukraine just prolongs their misery.
What does Barrett suggest?
"The real hope lies in an anti-war movement that crosses the border of East and West and opposes both Putin and NATO."
In the absence of a steady weapons supply, Ukraine wouldn't be able to resist, not for long that would inevitably lead to Ukraine surrendering and in a powerless position, Barrett isn't in favour of supplying those weapons, perhaps he thinks Ukraine should have surrendered immediately after the invasion and negotiate with an enemy invader who have pledged to wipe them from the face of the earth. Although Barrett has protested against Russia's aggression, his proposition is pie in the sky nonsense, more of a de facto position which in effect pro-Russia. Ukraine can burn while Richard in his imagination travels the world organising mass protests against Russia and NATO.
In the Dail after Zelensky's speech, he and 3 others refused to applaud, this in spite of Zelensky's respectfully acknowledging Ireland's neutrality and praising other valuable assistance Irish people have offered.
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.
What do you mean they have refused to?
Can you explain how not running a story is censorship?
I see that McGurk has pointed to the fact that Ireland wanted to be seen to open the doors to the refugees but can't actually give them any real support. It's a shoot the messenger job in the replies BUT like it's all shaping up to be another version of Direct Provision.
Families living in City West or in hostels for a few years and no places for their kids in schools and certainly no real support when SNA's and other resource teachers are cut already.
I know anywhere is better than a warzone but Christ have a plan in place rather than just wanting to seen to be a great bunch of lads.
The Dept of Education said they were thousands of new places being made available but any teacher I know reckons in reality that means a table shoved in the corner where a volunteer will need to come and help re English.
Now, before anyone says it I think we should take refugees from everywhere once we have scope to actually help them.
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.
Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".
I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.
There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.
Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.
Quote from: J70 on April 08, 2022, 01:23:14 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.
Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".
I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.
There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.
Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.
All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".
Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on April 08, 2022, 11:59:57 AM
I see that McGurk has pointed to the fact that Ireland wanted to be seen to open the doors to the refugees but can't actually give them any real support. It's a shoot the messenger job in the replies BUT like it's all shaping up to be another version of Direct Provision.
Families living in City West or in hostels for a few years and no places for their kids in schools and certainly no real support when SNA's and other resource teachers are cut already.
I know anywhere is better than a warzone but Christ have a plan in place rather than just wanting to seen to be a great bunch of lads.
The Dept of Education said they were thousands of new places being made available but any teacher I know reckons in reality that means a table shoved in the corner where a volunteer will need to come and help re English.
Now, before anyone says it I think we should take refugees from everywhere once we have scope to actually help them.
This is classic giving out without any shred of a proposal to do better. By and large SNAs and teachers have not been cut but have had to be pressed into other roles because of Covid. If an extra student comes along what else do you do but put a table in the corner? What is the alternative to putting people up in hotels?
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 08, 2022, 01:23:14 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.
Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".
I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.
There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.
Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.
All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".
Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine....
It's hardly my job to come up with proposals for the Dept of Education who are claiming they have plans in place for thousands of kids, when right now classrooms are overcrowded and under-resourced.
Also, why do THEY not have a plan in place that doesn't involve warehousing families in hostels and hotels for two years. I'm just a random lad on a forum not a highly paid official.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on April 08, 2022, 02:19:22 PM
It's hardly my job to come up with proposals for the Dept of Education who are claiming they have plans in place for thousands of kids, when right now classrooms are overcrowded and under-resourced.
Also, why do THEY not have a plan in place that doesn't involve warehousing families in hostels and hotels for two years. I'm just a random lad on a forum not a highly paid official.
Eight weeks ago they had no expectation of a rake of Ukrainians arriving. Some classrooms are overcrewded by the refugeees have been directed into schools that are less crowded. And as for the warehousing, what can they do, will you give them your house?
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2022, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 08, 2022, 01:23:14 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.
Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".
I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.
There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.
Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.
All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".
Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine....
And the Parachute Regiment fired into a crowd of civilian demonstrators.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2022, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 08, 2022, 01:23:14 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.
Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".
I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.
There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.
Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.
All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".
Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine....
This is where it gets grey as Putin is a scummy wee power hungry dictator, he can justify his invasion because there has been attacks on Russian ethnics in some of those eastern regions since 2014 and recently by the very Nazi Ukrainian battalions talked about here.
By no means justifying the atrocities carried out by the Russian Army but no one is squeaky clean in this and the innocent and poor die first as in all wars.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 08, 2022, 04:00:59 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2022, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 08, 2022, 01:23:14 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.
Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".
I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.
There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.
Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.
All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".
Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine....
This is where it gets grey as Putin is a scummy wee power hungry dictator, he can justify his invasion because there has been attacks on Russian ethnics in some of those eastern regions since 2014 and recently by the very Nazi Ukrainian battalions talked about here.
By no means justifying the atrocities carried out by the Russian Army but no one is squeaky clean in this and the innocent and poor die first as in all wars.
Agreed. But why didnt he stop in the east then if thats the way he wanted to justify his war. Obviously the targeting of civillians is disgraceful.
If the Ukranians were being "genocidal" towards rebels and civilians in the Eastern wannabe breakaway regions you'd wonder why the Butcher in the Kremlin hadn't publicised it for 8 years????
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2022, 06:34:32 PM
If the Ukranians were being "genocidal" towards rebels and civilians in the Eastern wannabe breakaway regions you'd wonder why the Butcher in the Kremlin hadn't publicised it for 8 years????
The Russian narrative is bollocks
Quote from: seafoid on April 08, 2022, 09:04:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2022, 06:34:32 PM
If the Ukranians were being "genocidal" towards rebels and civilians in the Eastern wannabe breakaway regions you'd wonder why the Butcher in the Kremlin hadn't publicised it for 8 years????
The Russian narrative is bollocks
That is a unnecessarily kind way of putting it.Bollocks doesn't have to be evil.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 08, 2022, 04:00:59 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2022, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 08, 2022, 01:23:14 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.
Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".
I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.
There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.
Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.
All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".
Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine....
This is where it gets grey as Putin is a scummy wee power hungry dictator, he can justify his invasion because there has been attacks on Russian ethnics in some of those eastern regions since 2014 and recently by the very Nazi Ukrainian battalions talked about here.
By no means justifying the atrocities carried out by the Russian Army but no one is squeaky clean in this and the innocent and poor die first as in all wars.
A Putin justification is 100% phony, always has been, no matter what military conflict, government controlled press clampdown, jailing political opposition. The Kremlin just manufacture provocation. And what nazi battalions are you on about? The ultra right paramilitaries that existed in 2014 were merged into a regular army battalion and subjected to regular army discipline. In 2014 the battalion numbered about 1500. These days the ultra right are about 10% -15% of that battalion. The role of the ultra right paramilitaries in the Ukraine conflict has been exaggerated 1,000 fold, it's some of the most blatant Kremlin propaganda and that bar is very very low.
If the paramilitaries are prepared to fight for and defend Ukraine, that's the best place for them, in the tent peeing out.
The Ultra Right coalition managed to get one deputy elected in the last election and he/it was kicked out later, the total electoral vote for the Ultra Right was minuscule.
In contrast to the popularity of the various ultra right factions in the upcoming French election, Ukraine politics has been virtually detoxified of the extreme elements.
Nazis stop being Nazis once they join the regular army!!
A report by the UN commission on Human Rights in 2016 detailed incidents over a 4 month period in 2015/16 where Azov had kept weapons and forces in used civilian buildings, and displaced residents after looting civilian properties. The report accused the Azov of raping and torturing detainees in the Donbas region.
I am not saying it is justification or that there isn't neo Nazi elements elsewhere including Russia. Nobody wins in wars especially civilian populatiions and that why all efforts should be at ending the war not prolonging it.
I say there more neo nazis In Russia and the USA than the Ukraine. If u watch the nazi death squads on Netflix, u seen the Urkaines dispised the Russians after the country been starved during the famine of the 30's. Welcomed the Germans but were on the receiving end of their master race complex. Russian retook Ukraine and they were bck under the thumb of soviet oppression. Is it a wonder they fight so hard for their freedom.. Russia bullied the surrounding regions for many yrs before USA or UK had any pre ww2 influence in the region.
Before the war started , Zelensky started a programme to look at Ukraine's weaknesses
under various scenarios including a war and mass immigration, in order to develop plans for each.
This is why the Russians failed to capture Kiev and decapitate the Ukrainian leadership.
He is an impressive leader.
He wants to make Ukraine like Israel after the war and invited a Azov member to speak at the Greek Parliament a couple of days ago.. if you ignore all the questionable stuff....
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
don't think that's correct.. he banned something like 10/11 smaller parties recently, I think the biggest of which held about 10% of the total parliament numbers
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 09, 2022, 07:37:40 PM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Who was funding the opposition?
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 09, 2022, 07:37:40 PM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Common in countries at war.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 09, 2022, 08:30:21 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 09, 2022, 07:37:40 PM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Who was funding the opposition?
Ha ha! And who pulls Zelensky's strings?! And who got rid of Yanukovych?! You know, there's all sorts of murky stuff going on. I think it's a bit rich 'the west' arming Ukraine so that Ukraine will essentially do the west's fighting, almost by proxy. But, of course, Ukraine is the one taking all the punishment. It's as, I think it was PadraicHenryPearse said: instead of egging on Ukraine to fight to the death, they should be guiding them towards a settlement.
The other thing that bemuses me is the EU suddenly fast-tracking EU membership for Ukraine. Much of what goes on there would just not sit well w/ 'EU values', and the championing of Ukrainian sovereignty and nationalism also seems to go against EU goals.
The majority of ukrainians wanted rid of yanukovich
Yankovich pulled out of joining the EU at the last minute against his own promises hence it all kicking off back in 2014
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on April 09, 2022, 11:01:31 PM
Yankovich pulled out of joining the EU at the last minute against his own promises hence it all kicking off back in 2014
Humpf. He wasn't just about to join the EU. Anyway, politicians frequently break their promises, and it seldom leads to foreign-sponsored regime change.
https://mobile.twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1512777682400038916
Yankovich was pro Russia. Ukraine has been in a low level civil war manipulated by Putin for the last 15 years. The state was weak and easy to manipulate. The war may be a game changer because of the Russian butchery.
https://www.ft.com/content/1c0e6e15-c8fe-4a84-99dc-12b6836bf0f4
Nato member states have agreed to supply new types of advanced weaponry to Ukraine, alliance representatives said, as Kyiv prepares for an offensive by Russia in the country's east. The pledge came after a plea from Ukraine's foreign minister for western countries to move faster with supplies or risk seeing "many people die . . . because this help came too late". Six weeks since Vladimir Putin, Russia's president, ordered the invasion of Ukraine, Moscow's troops have largely withdrawn from territory north of Kyiv after failing to seize the capital but are regrouping and rearming ahead of an attempt to advance in the eastern Donbas region, Ukrainian and western officials said. That has sparked demands from Kyiv for western countries to supply more heavy weapons, armour and more advanced systems. Ukraine's foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba said he would use a Nato meeting in Brussels to ask for aircraft, missiles, armoured vehicles and heavy air defence systems, among others. Liz Truss, UK foreign secretary, told reporters after the meeting that member states had backed giving more weapons.
Russia had the last guy in place just like the current leader in Belarus again the population wishes. Beginning to think we got the odd communist on here. Still looking reasons to blame some body else but Russia. Russia was on the receiving end most during WW2 but they invaded Finland and Poland which readily forgot when talking about WW2. Britain and France declared war on Germany for invading Poland, yet Russia done the same, at the same time and they allied with them, go figure.
Didn't they seize Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania at the time as well?
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2022, 11:53:16 AM
Didn't they seize Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania at the time as well?
Stalin was paranoid. He had 2 levels of buffer zone. The first was inside the Soviet Union- the Baltics, Belarus and Ukraine. The second was Eastern Europe.
Don't understand these public announcements on weapons, any weapons from countries should just be forwarded on instead of grand announcements. Even in war political parties in all countries try to make gains out of serious events for their own benefit.
Quote from: burdizzo on April 09, 2022, 10:06:49 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 09, 2022, 08:30:21 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 09, 2022, 07:37:40 PM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Who was funding the opposition?
Ha ha! And who pulls Zelensky's strings?! And who got rid of Yanukovych?! You know, there's all sorts of murky stuff going on. I think it's a bit rich 'the west' arming Ukraine so that Ukraine will essentially do the west's fighting, almost by proxy. But, of course, Ukraine is the one taking all the punishment. It's as, I think it was PadraicHenryPearse said: instead of egging on Ukraine to fight to the death, they should be guiding them towards a settlement.
The other thing that bemuses me is the EU suddenly fast-tracking EU membership for Ukraine. Much of what goes on there would just not sit well w/ 'EU values', and the championing of Ukrainian sovereignty and nationalism also seems to go against EU goals.
Total gibberish, you are easily bemused.
So what settlement do you propose might happen? considering that any talks that have happened so far were conducted while Russia were bombarding Ukraine cities and towns, refusing to hold a ceasefire. Yes I did listen to a spokesperson from PBP go on about a negotiated settlement and referred to the protests against the war in Russian cities as a positive and something which should be supported.
What universe do these People Before Profit idiots inhabit? Considering that most every protest against the war in Russia has been intimidated off the streets under pain of severe prosecution or directly dragged to jails and prosecuted, how on earth does our PBP rep imagine that such protests can be supported? Maybe sending a strong letter of disapproval to the Russian embassy?
The thing is Russia is not even communists anymore they are right wing nationalists back by orthodox church and even when they were communists they were authoritarian so i dont understand why the some lefties in Ireland think they are great. Some people still think Russia is communists you have right wing trump supporters supporting Putin because they think he's the last saviour of white fundamentalists Christianity then you have conspiracy people in Ireland thinking putin is great aswell.A jeep with a z sign was spotted in Ireland today.im worried some might even do something bad to Ukrainian refugees as we have well known conspiracy people in some circles in ireland calling all Ukrainians Nazis.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 09, 2022, 08:30:21 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 09, 2022, 07:37:40 PM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Who was funding the opposition?
Same people funding the Tories.
It seems that the Russian warship has in fact f***ed itself, as previously recommended.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2022, 09:24:19 AM
It seems that the Russian warship has in fact f***ed itself, as previously recommended.
https://www.ft.com/content/9604cdb2-63cc-4da6-8968-059948955cf1
The loss of the Moskva is a significant loss . . . in terms of credibility for the Russian forces, regardless of how it happened," a western official said. If it has been vulnerable to a missile attack by Ukrainians, "that questions Russia's competence", the official said,
if the sinking were "because of a fire which then resulted in the detonation of its magazine, where ammunition is stored, that is also incompetence". Either way it is a "massive blow to Russia's sense of pride in its military .
Earlier in the war
https://www.ft.com/content/60170757-2fad-4db9-b959-2fc088cc4bc6
The envoy played a recording of a radio conversation between Russian naval vessels and the lightly armed Ukrainian border guards stationed on the island. Korsunsky said the Russian vessels had twice demanded the Ukrainians lay down their weapons and surrender or be destroyed. "The answer was 'go f**k yourself'," said Korsunski, adding that the Russians then obliterated the structures on the island, killing the 13 guards stationed there.
That was the Moskva
https://www.ft.com/content/d73a3262-09f4-4045-8ce0-7bfe3ddc896e
The Moskva's sinking was met with jubilation in Ukraine. Resistance to the ship became an early symbol of the fight against Russia when Ukrainian troops, ordered by the Moskva to surrender, responded by saying: "Russian military vessel, go f**k yourself.
Quote from: seafoid on April 16, 2022, 07:02:45 AM
Earlier in the war
https://www.ft.com/content/60170757-2fad-4db9-b959-2fc088cc4bc6
The envoy played a recording of a radio conversation between Russian naval vessels and the lightly armed Ukrainian border guards stationed on the island. Korsunsky said the Russian vessels had twice demanded the Ukrainians lay down their weapons and surrender or be destroyed. "The answer was 'go f**k yourself'," said Korsunski, adding that the Russians then obliterated the structures on the island, killing the 13 guards stationed there.
That was the Moskva
https://www.ft.com/content/d73a3262-09f4-4045-8ce0-7bfe3ddc896e
The Moskva's sinking was met with jubilation in Ukraine. Resistance to the ship became an early symbol of the fight against Russia when Ukrainian troops, ordered by the Moskva to surrender, responded by saying: "Russian military vessel, go f**k yourself.
In fact not everyone in the island was killed, the Russians shelled it and then sent in marines, but several of the Ukrainians were taken prisoner.
The Ukraine issued a postage stamp to commemorate the occasion, this went on sale a couple of days ago. The guys that fired the missiles sank the ship that day, probably getting more success than they had even hoped for.
(https://c.ndtvimg.com/2022-03/flauiqrg_ukraine-new-stamp-snake-island-postage-stamp_625x300_15_March_22.jpg)
I read that Claire and Mick have been surgically exposed by Naomi O'Leary in the IT for what they are, hypocrites and ideologically bankrupt.
https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435 (https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435)
It's a pity, though Mick was always a bit of a dullard but Claire had potential in the Irish political context to effect the pursuit of 'truth, justice, and a better tomorrow'. Why she and Mick chose to seek election to the European Parliament was a curious choice but after reading the article and having observed their conduct in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, their choice makes sense and not of the honest ideological sort.
It's a strange irony that they have refused to answer questions about their conduct set by Naomi, have called for her to be expelled from the Euro parliament and have initiated libel proceedings against her in Ireland despite their public stance of support for a free press and taking a stand against such libel actions to shut down investigations.
Quote from: Main Street on April 22, 2022, 01:06:29 AM
I read that Claire and Mick have been surgically exposed by Naomi O'Leary in the IT for what they are, hypocrites and ideologically bankrupt.
https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435 (https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435)
It's a pity, though Mick was always a bit of a dullard but Claire had potential in the Irish political context to effect the pursuit of 'truth, justice, and a better tomorrow'. Why she and Mick chose to seek election to the European Parliament was a curious choice but after reading the article and having observed their conduct in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, their choice makes sense and not of the honest ideological sort.
It's a strange irony that they have refused to answer questions about their conduct set by Naomi, have called for her to be expelled from the Euro parliament and have initiated libel proceedings against her in Ireland despite their public stance of support for a free press and taking a stand against such libel actions to shut down investigations.
she spend a year doing it she said and all she did was rehash old tweets from Clare and Mick, hardly ground breaking....she measured mentions in chinese media for f**k sake, she says they protested the deaths of children in Donbass a key justification of Russian invasion...She could have done the same for most govt. minister who have met the Saudis, UK, US, Russians politicians etc. Xxxx met Saudi Crown Prince, his govt is responsible for 377k direct and indirect deaths in Yemen, militarily supported by The US and UK which supplies the weapons for the slaughter... at least no govt minister met any of them.
she makes a big deal of their refusal to talk to her but she herself blocked two journalists who quote tweeted her tweets... are they suing her or Rte?
Do people like Clare Daly who set out their stall as justice campaigners always veer into madness eventually, or was she mad all along but it was kept under wraps?
Quote from: Dag Dog on April 22, 2022, 12:31:27 PM
Do people like Clare Daly who set out their stall as justice campaigners always veer into madness eventually, or was she mad all along but it was kept under wraps?
There's a long tradition of west european left/peace campaigners who only criticized NATO. The German Green movement only campaigned to disarm western Europe and supported the existence of East Germany under Honecker and communism, no quid pro quo deescalation.
The west european peace/left movements did not campaign against or criticize USSR imperialism and the chronic political, economic and social suppression of so called satellite states in east europe
SF the Workers Party in Ireland is a case in point, from its inception - an Eoghan Harris masterpiece https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf (https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf) only condemned USA imperialism and peppered their manifesto with marxist leninist dogma. Later the Workers Party still aligned itself with International communism, pro USSR. They disintegrated into various splits when the USSR broke up.
This is a high profile gig for Clare and Mick. It's a gravy train for a Euro mp who actively supports Assad/Iran and their proxies in Iraq, bellow loud about NATO/USA and silent about Russia military aggression. When they peddle their mantra 'no weapons to Ukraine', they are de facto supporting Russia's invasion and ambitions in Ukraine. And this in context of months of international attempts to negotiate a settlement pre invasion. If they don't get reelected, there's always the option to join lost politicians George Galloway and Alex Salmond on Russia Today.
Quote from: Main Street on April 22, 2022, 01:06:29 AM
I read that Claire and Mick have been surgically exposed by Naomi O'Leary in the IT for what they are, hypocrites and ideologically bankrupt.
https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435 (https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435)
It's a pity, though Mick was always a bit of a dullard but Claire had potential in the Irish political context to effect the pursuit of 'truth, justice, and a better tomorrow'. Why she and Mick chose to seek election to the European Parliament was a curious choice but after reading the article and having observed their conduct in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, their choice makes sense and not of the honest ideological sort.
It's a strange irony that they have refused to answer questions about their conduct set by Naomi, have called for her to be expelled from the Euro parliament and have initiated libel proceedings against her in Ireland despite their public stance of support for a free press and taking a stand against such libel actions to shut down investigations.
Difficult to understand why people elect them.
Quote from: Main Street on April 22, 2022, 02:02:47 PM
Quote from: Dag Dog on April 22, 2022, 12:31:27 PM
Do people like Clare Daly who set out their stall as justice campaigners always veer into madness eventually, or was she mad all along but it was kept under wraps?
There's a long tradition of west european left/peace campaigners who only criticized NATO. The German Green movement only campaigned to disarm western Europe and supported the existence of East Germany under Honecker and communism, no quid pro quo deescalation.
The west european peace/left movements did not campaign against or criticize USSR imperialism and the chronic political, economic and social suppression of so called satellite states in east europe
SF the Workers Party in Ireland is a case in point, from its inception - an Eoghan Harris masterpiece https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf (https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf) only condemned USA imperialism and peppered their manifesto with marxist leninist dogma. Later the Workers Party still aligned itself with International communism, pro USSR. They disintegrated into various splits when the USSR broke up.
This is a high profile gig for Clare and Mick. It's a gravy train for a Euro mp who actively supports Assad/Iran and their proxies in Iraq, bellow loud about NATO/USA and silent about Russia military aggression. When they peddle their mantra 'no weapons to Ukraine', they are de facto supporting Russia's invasion and ambitions in Ukraine. And this in context of months of international attempts to negotiate a settlement pre invasion. If they don't get reelected, there's always the option to join lost politicians George Galloway and Alex Salmond on Russia Today.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1496873424760844304?t=OVZS2Usgwd9N_nIk5nIWJw&s=19
Can you read the statement and advise where they are calling for what you continually "peddle".. they have articulated their position clearly... you continually misrepresent it.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 22, 2022, 02:24:24 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 22, 2022, 02:02:47 PM
Quote from: Dag Dog on April 22, 2022, 12:31:27 PM
Do people like Clare Daly who set out their stall as justice campaigners always veer into madness eventually, or was she mad all along but it was kept under wraps?
There's a long tradition of west european left/peace campaigners who only criticized NATO. The German Green movement only campaigned to disarm western Europe and supported the existence of East Germany under Honecker and communism, no quid pro quo deescalation.
The west european peace/left movements did not campaign against or criticize USSR imperialism and the chronic political, economic and social suppression of so called satellite states in east europe
SF the Workers Party in Ireland is a case in point, from its inception - an Eoghan Harris masterpiece https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf (https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf) only condemned USA imperialism and peppered their manifesto with marxist leninist dogma. Later the Workers Party still aligned itself with International communism, pro USSR. They disintegrated into various splits when the USSR broke up.
This is a high profile gig for Clare and Mick. It's a gravy train for a Euro mp who actively supports Assad/Iran and their proxies in Iraq, bellow loud about NATO/USA and silent about Russia military aggression. When they peddle their mantra 'no weapons to Ukraine', they are de facto supporting Russia's invasion and ambitions in Ukraine. And this in context of months of international attempts to negotiate a settlement pre invasion. If they don't get reelected, there's always the option to join lost politicians George Galloway and Alex Salmond on Russia Today.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1496873424760844304?t=OVZS2Usgwd9N_nIk5nIWJw&s=19
Can you read the statement and advise where they are calling for what you continually "peddle".. they have articulated their position clearly... you continually misrepresent it.
I have read that statement and replied to it before in this thread, as the first tweeted reply states it's complete utter drivel, de facto support of Russia's war and ambitions under some nonsense of a UN negotiated settlement.
How long do we wait for that settlement while Mick and Clare campaign for Ukraine to be virtually disarmed and emasculated of any bargaining power, while Ukrainian towns cities are being bombarded to rubble. Not just drivel but also first class hypocrisy.
Quote from: Main Street on April 22, 2022, 05:42:46 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 22, 2022, 02:24:24 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 22, 2022, 02:02:47 PM
Quote from: Dag Dog on April 22, 2022, 12:31:27 PM
Do people like Clare Daly who set out their stall as justice campaigners always veer into madness eventually, or was she mad all along but it was kept under wraps?
There's a long tradition of west european left/peace campaigners who only criticized NATO. The German Green movement only campaigned to disarm western Europe and supported the existence of East Germany under Honecker and communism, no quid pro quo deescalation.
The west european peace/left movements did not campaign against or criticize USSR imperialism and the chronic political, economic and social suppression of so called satellite states in east europe
SF the Workers Party in Ireland is a case in point, from its inception - an Eoghan Harris masterpiece https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf (https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf) only condemned USA imperialism and peppered their manifesto with marxist leninist dogma. Later the Workers Party still aligned itself with International communism, pro USSR. They disintegrated into various splits when the USSR broke up.
This is a high profile gig for Clare and Mick. It's a gravy train for a Euro mp who actively supports Assad/Iran and their proxies in Iraq, bellow loud about NATO/USA and silent about Russia military aggression. When they peddle their mantra 'no weapons to Ukraine', they are de facto supporting Russia's invasion and ambitions in Ukraine. And this in context of months of international attempts to negotiate a settlement pre invasion. If they don't get reelected, there's always the option to join lost politicians George Galloway and Alex Salmond on Russia Today.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1496873424760844304?t=OVZS2Usgwd9N_nIk5nIWJw&s=19
Can you read the statement and advise where they are calling for what you continually "peddle".. they have articulated their position clearly... you continually misrepresent it.
I have read that statement and replied to it before in this thread, as the first tweeted reply states it's complete utter drivel, de facto support of Russia's war and ambitions under some nonsense of a UN negotiated settlement.
How long do we wait for that settlement while Mick and Clare campaign for Ukraine to be virtually disarmed and emasculated of any bargaining power, while Ukrainian towns cities are being bombarded to rubble. Not just drivel but also first class hypocrisy.
the statement says nothing of the sort... "Russia must withdraw it troops from Ukraine immediately and cease all military operations"... there is no call for Ukraine to be emasculated.
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2022, 02:09:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 22, 2022, 01:06:29 AM
I read that Claire and Mick have been surgically exposed by Naomi O'Leary in the IT for what they are, hypocrites and ideologically bankrupt.
https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435 (https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435)
It's a pity, though Mick was always a bit of a dullard but Claire had potential in the Irish political context to effect the pursuit of 'truth, justice, and a better tomorrow'. Why she and Mick chose to seek election to the European Parliament was a curious choice but after reading the article and having observed their conduct in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, their choice makes sense and not of the honest ideological sort.
It's a strange irony that they have refused to answer questions about their conduct set by Naomi, have called for her to be expelled from the Euro parliament and have initiated libel proceedings against her in Ireland despite their public stance of support for a free press and taking a stand against such libel actions to shut down investigations.
Difficult to understand why people elect them.
I bet a lot of people still think Mick Wallace is a great lad because he dresses like a beggar and doesn't toe the establishment line.
pro russian graffiti seen in northern ireland probably from the conspiracy mccloskey brigade who have been going around the north west they billions said would die from the vaccine by winter it did not happen now they think putin will save them
Quote from: Eire90 on April 24, 2022, 06:55:19 PM
pro russian graffiti seen in northern ireland probably from the conspiracy mccloskey brigade who have been going around the north west they billions said would die from the vaccine by winter it did not happen now they think putin will save them
Where's this at?
Quote from: marty34 on April 24, 2022, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on April 24, 2022, 06:55:19 PM
pro russian graffiti seen in northern ireland probably from the conspiracy mccloskey brigade who have been going around the north west they billions said would die from the vaccine by winter it did not happen now they think putin will save them
Where's this at?
Dark Hedges
Quote from: Eire90 on April 24, 2022, 06:55:19 PM
pro russian graffiti seen in northern ireland probably from the conspiracy mccloskey brigade who have been going around the north west they billions said would die from the vaccine by winter it did not happen now they think putin will save them
The great reset. There's a couple of vocal conspiracy loons up these parts shouting about QAnon now. The mind boggles
I was there earlier same day(not guilty by the way) still plenty of European visitors there during the day, so I suspect it was probably visitors but it not dark to after 9, so hard to tell
https://www.ft.com/content/2e67861d-f880-48c4-a11a-9bbe62be9a73
Since the invasion began, more than 40 countries have referred Russia to the ICC for investigation. The clamour has been fed by multiple attacks on civilian targets including Russia's bombardment of a maternity hospital, and a theatre where women and children were sheltering in Mariupol, as well as Friday's missile attack on a railway station in Kramatorsk that killed dozens.
https://www.ft.com/content/2e67861d-f880-48c4-a11a-9bbe62be9a73
Bucha — a short drive from Kyiv — is only one small window into what they believe is a pattern of unlawful killings, rapes and other crimes against civilians in swaths of eastern and southern Ukraine that were seized after the Russian invasion began on February 24, in what Putin called a "special military operation". In other Kyiv suburbs from which Russian troops have withdrawn in recent days, photographers at the scene took shocking pictures: corpses stuffed into wells with bags over their heads; a dead woman with a swastika carved into her flesh, a brutal reflection of Putin's casus belli of defeating "Nazis" in Ukraine. Even before the massacres, work had begun in international justice circles on tracking abuses connected to the Russian attack.
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2022, 04:17:47 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/2e67861d-f880-48c4-a11a-9bbe62be9a73
Since the invasion began, more than 40 countries have referred Russia to the ICC for investigation. The clamour has been fed by multiple attacks on civilian targets including Russia's bombardment of a maternity hospital, and a theatre where women and children were sheltering in Mariupol, as well as Friday's missile attack on a railway station in Kramatorsk that killed dozens.
https://www.ft.com/content/2e67861d-f880-48c4-a11a-9bbe62be9a73
Bucha — a short drive from Kyiv — is only one small window into what they believe is a pattern of unlawful killings, rapes and other crimes against civilians in swaths of eastern and southern Ukraine that were seized after the Russian invasion began on February 24, in what Putin called a "special military operation". In other Kyiv suburbs from which Russian troops have withdrawn in recent days, photographers at the scene took shocking pictures: corpses stuffed into wells with bags over their heads; a dead woman with a swastika carved into her flesh, a brutal reflection of Putin's casus belli of defeating "Nazis" in Ukraine. Even before the massacres, work had begun in international justice circles on tracking abuses connected to the Russian attack.
Sure its only a culture war.
https://www.ft.com/content/f299cb83-9f12-484b-8839-12ec96c87a72
Trashing Ukraine and making the west look weak, with the ultimate aim of strengthening the regime's hold on power, is what drives Kremlin policy at the moment; with Putin as the winner and the only person who can save Russia," says one European intelligence officer.
"Even though Russia's operational focus has shifted to the east, we still see that Russia's ultimate objective remains the same, which is to use military force to compel Ukraine to abandon its Euro-Atlantic orientation, and by extension reassert [Moscow's] regional dominance," says the senior Nato official
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2022, 09:31:03 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/f299cb83-9f12-484b-8839-12ec96c87a72
Trashing Ukraine and making the west look weak, with the ultimate aim of strengthening the regime's hold on power, is what drives Kremlin policy at the moment; with Putin as the winner and the only person who can save Russia," says one European intelligence officer.
I think it's working.
Wow,, nearly a month since the last post on this, but probably illustrates the apathy that generally sets in after the initial waves of horror.
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.
Ben Stiller over atm so hopin he sorts it all out.
I mean ffs its hard to take it all serious when theres celebs droppin in every few days
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 21, 2022, 02:21:19 PM
Ben Stiller over atm so hopin he sorts it all out.
I mean ffs its hard to take it all serious when theres celebs droppin in every few days
To be fair he has been a UNHCR ambassador for decades. He didn't just rock up
Quote from: bennydorano on June 21, 2022, 02:01:01 PM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.
Russia are still f**ked medium term.
Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 21, 2022, 08:12:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 21, 2022, 02:01:01 PM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.
Russia are still f**ked medium term.
Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.
How handy is to have a war to blame for this complete financial shit show?
If the war stopped tomorrow would fuel drop back to 1.25 a litre, would home heating oil drop back to normal levels?
Would the price of food drop?
How quick would that happen?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2022, 08:27:39 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 21, 2022, 08:12:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 21, 2022, 02:01:01 PM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.
Russia are still f**ked medium term.
Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.
How handy is to have a war to blame for this complete financial shit show?
If the war stopped tomorrow would fuel drop back to 1.25 a litre, would home heating oil drop back to normal levels?
Would the price of food drop?
How quick would that happen?
the answer to that is, i would imagine, not quickly. Things go up very quick but they dont go the other way anywhere near as quick
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2022, 07:52:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2022, 08:27:39 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 21, 2022, 08:12:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 21, 2022, 02:01:01 PM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.
Russia are still f**ked medium term.
Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.
How handy is to have a war to blame for this complete financial shit show?
If the war stopped tomorrow would fuel drop back to 1.25 a litre, would home heating oil drop back to normal levels?
Would the price of food drop?
How quick would that happen?
the answer to that is, i would imagine, not quickly. Things go up very quick but they dont go the other way anywhere near as quick
But you feel that they will go back at some point and the war is to blame for it all? Will the West ever do 'business' with Russia again or another way of saying it will the West ever do business with Putin again?
If he was 'removed' would that build confidence and allow that to happen?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 22, 2022, 08:40:59 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2022, 07:52:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2022, 08:27:39 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 21, 2022, 08:12:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 21, 2022, 02:01:01 PM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.
Russia are still f**ked medium term.
Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.
How handy is to have a war to blame for this complete financial shit show?
If the war stopped tomorrow would fuel drop back to 1.25 a litre, would home heating oil drop back to normal levels?
Would the price of food drop?
How quick would that happen?
the answer to that is, i would imagine, not quickly. Things go up very quick but they dont go the other way anywhere near as quick
But you feel that they will go back at some point and the war is to blame for it all? Will the West ever do 'business' with Russia again or another way of saying it will the West ever do business with Putin again?
If he was 'removed' would that build confidence and allow that to happen?
If he goes then Happy meals will be back on the menu in Moscow.
No, of course things won't go down as quickly. Even when fertiliser prices were going mad, it turned out the companies had increased profits of 14%, and I'd imagine it's the same across all commodities.
As for 'the west' and Putin... Well, maybe another way of looking at all this is that the invasion of Ukraine is a sign of the crumbling influence of The West in today's world. You know, Russia (not just Putin, by the way) reckoned that he'd be safe enough to go ahead and, largely, he's been right. Sure, it's a different mindset from the last century - completely at odds with our atomised, BLM/ gay pride flag-waving world - but he doesn't give a shit. And why should he? The West is faltering, and Russia and China might as well fill the power vacuum. The whole thing is full of so many contradictions, it's hard to know what to think! America and the EU, essentially, writing blank cheques for a pretty dodgy Ukrainian administration, that's led by a Jew and harbours bona-fide 'neo-fascists' which the western media lionises all the time! You know, if any of us in The West were to extol such 'blood and soil' policies as the Ukrainians are now (and fair play to them), then we'd be ostracised as 'far-right' lunatics. And as for our media... We all laugh at the Russian state media propaganda, but the lies from our own lot are more blatant and outlandish every day.
I think Putin will win this war, and I think it will accelerate the decline of influence of the EU and America. We've been on about how China is going to be the next 'big superpower'. Well, I think this could be the tipping point. Some reckon they're eyeing up Taiwan - possibly as early as next year. And w/ Western arms stockpiles somewhat depleted in Ukraine - sure, why not?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 22, 2022, 08:40:59 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 22, 2022, 07:52:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2022, 08:27:39 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 21, 2022, 08:12:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 21, 2022, 02:01:01 PM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.
Russia are still f**ked medium term.
Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.
How handy is to have a war to blame for this complete financial shit show?
If the war stopped tomorrow would fuel drop back to 1.25 a litre, would home heating oil drop back to normal levels?
Would the price of food drop?
How quick would that happen?
the answer to that is, i would imagine, not quickly. Things go up very quick but they dont go the other way anywhere near as quick
But you feel that they will go back at some point and the war is to blame for it all? Will the West ever do 'business' with Russia again or another way of saying it will the West ever do business with Putin again?
If he was 'removed' would that build confidence and allow that to happen?
I have no idea. I was just making a point that prices go up quickly but the reverse doesnt happen
https://gript.ie/actually-fine-gael-is-out-of-step-with-the-public-not-mattie-mcgrath/
Pure & utter nonsense from FG, fair play to rural independents for highlighting this. Country is turning into a leftie cesspit.
Ahhh the gript, about as right wing as they come.
Typical shite as usual from leftie fan boy Rossfan, still have nothing to add to any discussion. Shows how much of an idiot you are, if you believe the gript holds far right views.
Usual foul language and abuse, par for the extreme right wing course.
Shows your intolerance to views which are different to your own. No problem in dismissing & dishing others peoples views on this board for years. You can give it but cant take it. Poor little sensitive snowflake.
a grown "man" calling someone a snowflake
How do you it's a man?!
But he's right (!); Gript certainly isn't "as right-wing as they come". Also, we have become a leftie cesspit.
Quote from: Rudi on June 24, 2022, 04:36:10 PM
https://gript.ie/actually-fine-gael-is-out-of-step-with-the-public-not-mattie-mcgrath/
Pure & utter nonsense from FG, fair play to rural independents for highlighting this. Country is turning into a leftie cesspit.
The correct answer is probably along the lines of
"We don't see our incoming numbers ever swelling to significant figures; therefore we do not want to discourage anyone thinking of coming here at this time.
Of course, we cannot foresee the future, so if that changes, then maybe this house will need to debate it. But for now, the bigger problem is Ukrainians being put off by a perceived cold welcome and staying somewhere that puts them at risk."
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 24, 2022, 06:34:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 24, 2022, 04:36:10 PM
https://gript.ie/actually-fine-gael-is-out-of-step-with-the-public-not-mattie-mcgrath/
Pure & utter nonsense from FG, fair play to rural independents for highlighting this. Country is turning into a leftie cesspit.
The correct answer is probably along the lines of
"We don't see our incoming numbers ever swelling to significant figures; therefore we do not want to discourage anyone thinking of coming here at this time.
Of course, we cannot foresee the future, so if that changes, then maybe this house will need to debate it. But for now, the bigger problem is Ukrainians being put off by a perceived cold welcome and staying somewhere that puts them at risk."
Fair enough interpretation of the issue, although in the medium to long term can see potential hazards expressed by Carol Nolan. Resource issue with a quick rise in population, access to healthcare, proper housing, education etc. These are areas where we were struggling prior to the war. We should accept a percentage of Ukrainians based on our population & their access to key resources.
There seems to be some decent Ukrainian gains in this counter offensive- bearing in mind twitter is the source and there's not much pro Russian stuff in my feed.
I've been following the whole thing from the start. Morbidly fascinated, and I get why people switch off. The writing has been on the wall for the Russians for a long time but what has happened over the last week, and especially over the last 24 hrs has been spectacular and catastrophic in equal measure from a Ukraine and Russian perspective. The Russian army is on the verge of collapse. This could even be the beginning of the end of the Russian federation. Phillips O'brien, Mike Martin, trent telenko are good follows for info on twitter if you're not already on them.
Cheers, only following Telenko from those 3, Thomas C Theiner @noclador is very good too.
See the Nuclear station is a worry again. That could end up being the biggest takeaway from this whole shit show and ironically could give Putin his cover excuse to leave Ukraine.
Mark Urban of the BBC had been good in the early days also.
Quote from: HiMucker on September 09, 2022, 10:45:26 PMThe writing has been on the wall for the Russians for a long time but what has happened over the last week, and especially over the last 24 hrs has been spectacular and catastrophic in equal measure from a Ukraine and Russian perspective. The Russian army is on the verge of collapse. This could even be the beginning of the end of the Russian federation.
Agree with all of that.
I suppose the unknown is; will it be another February 1917 Revolution, or will the Federation splinter up?
It's OK, it is a regroup not a rout.
The (Russian) Defense Ministry said it had pulled forces out of the village of Balakliya and the strategically crucial city of Izyum in the Kharkiv region, after a decision to "regroup" and transfer them to Donetsk in the south.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 10, 2022, 04:31:55 PM
It's OK, it is a regroup not a rout.
The (Russian) Defense Ministry said it had pulled forces out of the village of Balakliya and the strategically crucial city of Izyum in the Kharkiv region, after a decision to "regroup" and transfer them to Donetsk in the south.
HAHAHAHA
Ahh, the very same kinda regrouping as their withdrawals earlier as "peaceful gestures"!!
Comical Ali job all right ;D
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 10, 2022, 07:28:28 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 10, 2022, 04:31:55 PM
It's OK, it is a regroup not a rout.
The (Russian) Defense Ministry said it had pulled forces out of the village of Balakliya and the strategically crucial city of Izyum in the Kharkiv region, after a decision to "regroup" and transfer them to Donetsk in the south.
HAHAHAHA
Ahh, the very same kinda regrouping as their withdrawals earlier as "peaceful gestures"!!
Comical Ali job all right ;D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcTkCD-XEAAFuDL?format=jpg&name=small)
If this development is sustained it should help with inflation.
Unfortunately I would say it is a big if. Would expect some twists here.
Quote from: seafoid on September 11, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
If this development is sustained it should help with inflation.
That's really funny!
As noted earlier by Benny I'm sure there's not much pro-russian stiff on anyones feed - so surely have to take these optimistic scenarios with a massive pinch of salt...
Yeah I read another take on it which was not quite so optimistic. Have to be wary what you believe her like you say as there's a lot of propaganda either way. Hope that's just paranoia and the main news is correct mind you.
MacKenna says it's only a small win so that's clearly all it is!
That gobshite Ewan? Unfortunately a stopped clock is right twice a day and that may ring true here!
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 12, 2022, 08:11:20 AM
Yeah I read another take on it which was not quite so optimistic. Have to be wary what you believe her like you say as there's a lot of propaganda either way. Hope that's just paranoia and the main news is correct mind you.
There is war and then there is the propaganda war. Both important.
Quote from: screenexile on September 12, 2022, 02:04:44 PM
MacKenna says it's only a small win so that's clearly all it is!
He is in pretty deep
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 04:55:14 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
Maybe??
Fox news analysis on Friday that the Ukrainians were getting whipped south of Kharkiv.
https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1569321565531115523
today is full of tweets of Ukrainians in towns right at the Russian border in Kharkiv oblast, the equivalent of Culloville or Belleek in Ukraine, which were captured an hour after the Russians invaded in February.
And the Ukrainians continue to make less dramatic gains towards Kherson.
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 04:55:14 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
???
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or stupid there....
Quote from: armaghniac on September 12, 2022, 06:13:04 PM
Fox news analysis on Friday that the Ukrainians were getting whipped south of Kharkiv.
https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1569321565531115523
Faux News are decidedly Pro-Russian.
Because the Democrats are Pro-Ukraine.
That's how bad they've got.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 12, 2022, 07:47:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 04:55:14 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
???
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or stupid there....
Nobody knows how long the war is going to last. The big powers limit the amount of help they will provide because they don't want to go to war against Russia.
Ukraine wants more help . It's a mess.
Quote from: screenexile on September 12, 2022, 02:04:44 PM
MacKenna says it's only a small win so that's clearly all it is!
It's amazing the way he has systematically adopted a contrarian position on every topic ever and yet try to maintain its a genuinely held belief. Wonder what his next long term genuinely held belief will be? Doubt he knows.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 13, 2022, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 12, 2022, 02:04:44 PM
MacKenna says it's only a small win so that's clearly all it is!
It's amazing the way he has systematically adopted a contrarian position on every topic ever and yet try to maintain its a genuinely held belief. Wonder what his next long term genuinely held belief will be? Doubt he knows.
It is some craic when Covid is brought up - he was yapping about Cheltenham being on when Covid first broke and how it was going to kill so many people and should have been cancelled/lockdown.
Then he changed tack completely and now saying he was against lockdowns form the beginning.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 13, 2022, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 12, 2022, 02:04:44 PM
MacKenna says it's only a small win so that's clearly all it is!
It's amazing the way he has systematically adopted a contrarian position on every topic ever and yet try to maintain its a genuinely held belief. Wonder what his next long term genuinely held belief will be? Doubt he knows.
Is it the case that he can't get work as a journalist anywhere and he has spotted a niche to be as antagonistic and controversial as possible on Twitter in order to develop a profile? Either way he has built up a small group of sycophants for himself so he knows what he is at to stay relevant. I didn't actually mind him when he was doing sports journalism but when he started getting involved in social issues, health and world politics he began straying way out of his comfort zone. I still find it funny how he manages to take the contrarian view on absolutely every issue possible.
Far from alone on the contrarian view these days. Or "critical thinkers" as they like to call themselves ;D
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0913/1322098-ukraine-latest/
Ukraine has vowed to liberate all of its territory after driving back Russian forces in the northeast of the country.
Kyiv has also called on the West to speed up deliveries of weapons to back its advance.
Quote from: yellowcard on September 13, 2022, 05:09:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 13, 2022, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 12, 2022, 02:04:44 PM
MacKenna says it's only a small win so that's clearly all it is!
It's amazing the way he has systematically adopted a contrarian position on every topic ever and yet try to maintain its a genuinely held belief. Wonder what his next long term genuinely held belief will be? Doubt he knows.
Is it the case that he can't get work as a journalist anywhere and he has spotted a niche to be as antagonistic and controversial as possible on Twitter in order to develop a profile? Either way he has built up a small group of sycophants for himself so he knows what he is at to stay relevant. I didn't actually mind him when he was doing sports journalism but when he started getting involved in social issues, health and world politics he began straying way out of his comfort zone. I still find it funny how he manages to take the contrarian view on absolutely every issue possible.
l think he has a subscription base on the go via Patreon or some such set up for his musings.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 12, 2022, 05:53:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 04:55:14 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
Maybe??
the USA and the eu are involved in a proxy war against Russia they are arming the Ukrainian troops and paying zelensky to keep it going, how it will end up I don't know but I'm sure it will be a huge mess and won't be resolved for years .
Quote from: Gmac on September 13, 2022, 08:26:45 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 12, 2022, 05:53:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 04:55:14 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
Maybe??
the USA and the eu are involved in a proxy war against Russia they are arming the Ukrainian troops and paying zelensky to keep it going, how it will end up I don't know but I'm sure it will be a huge mess and won't be resolved for years .
True. There's only one person responsible for rolling the tanks over a border tho.
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 08:29:33 PM
Nobody knows how long the war is going to last. The big powers limit the amount of help they will provide because they don't want to go to war against Russia.
Ukraine wants more help . It's a mess.
To be honest, there isn't much more they can do without pulling the trigger themselves.
Its not like they can just give them 5000 tanks and say "there ye go lads, enjoy".
Modern military equipment is
extremely high maintenance - and you need to be able to fix complex issues quickly in the field.
Artillery pieces or self propelled guns are away from the front and are *relatively* easy to work with - there isn't the same pressure on to fix before a Russian tank comes out over the next hill and blows you up.
Ukraine are and will continue to transition toward NATO equipment, but it just takes time to get their people up to speed on how to run them. Time that unfortunately is in very short supply.
Quote from: Gmac on September 13, 2022, 08:26:45 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 12, 2022, 05:53:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 04:55:14 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
Maybe??
the USA and the eu are involved in a proxy war against Russia they are arming the Ukrainian troops and paying zelensky to keep it going, how it will end up I don't know but I'm sure it will be a huge mess and won't be resolved for years .
They really didn't have a choice, and continue to not have any choice.
Roll over for Putin in Ukraine and in 50 years time*, students in history classes would be wondering why they learning nothing from Chamberlain.
*Assuming that the next war Putin would have inevitably started after being encouraged by the West's inaction followed didn't go nuclear.
Putin tore the arse out of it. He judged that the West was weak after the Afghanistan pullout. He decided that nobody would help Ukraine, same as in 2014 .
It seems some been happy the Ukraine roll over, haven't learned the lessons of Russia from Pre Ww"2 rolling into Finland and Poland when a gap opened for them. Same applies here, they would roll the whole to Poland given half a chance. And we know what that lead to last time.
The idea that Putin wants to steamroll his way all over eastern Europe is put out there to justify war-mongering. In fact, the west is as culpable in all this as Russia and has been playing power games in that neck of the woods for a long time. The West sponsored the coup in 2014. Russia saw this and decided they had to do 'something'. And they did...
I don't understand why some people think Russia are still 'the commies', or why Ukranian blood and soil nationalism is to be backed to the hilt, whilst such instincts in western Europe are decried as 'far-right'. In any case, the Ukrainians and the Russians are both essentially fighting for values that are not 'ours'. It should be none of our business, but it is because of... resources? What else?! Can anyone honestly say there'd be such a shit-show over, say, Finland?! Who would be bothered?!
Quote from: burdizzo on September 13, 2022, 10:40:04 PM
The idea that Putin wants to steamroll his way all over eastern Europe is put out there to justify war-mongering. In fact, the west is as culpable in all this as Russia and has been playing power games in that neck of the woods for a long time. The West sponsored the coup in 2014. Russia saw this and decided they had to do 'something'. And they did...
I don't understand why some people think Russia are still 'the commies', or why Ukranian blood and soil nationalism is to be backed to the hilt, whilst such instincts in western Europe are decried as 'far-right'. In any case, the Ukrainians and the Russians are both essentially fighting for values that are not 'ours'. It should be none of our business, but it is because of... resources? What else?! Can anyone honestly say there'd be such a shit-show over, say, Finland?! Who would be bothered?!
Is this sarcasm?
Geopolitical games are as old as time itself and proximity matters. Russia have been involved in more than their fair share (Syria Chechnya, Georgia /South Ossetia in very recent memory) rolling your tanks across the border crosses a line. Their bluff was called.
Quote from: seafoid on September 13, 2022, 05:48:08 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0913/1322098-ukraine-latest/
Ukraine has vowed to liberate all of its territory after driving back Russian forces in the northeast of the country.
Kyiv has also called on the West to speed up deliveries of weapons to back its advance.
That'll be some achievement if they retake Crimea. It'll be the end of Putin, and the world will become even more dangerous since there's not a clear line of succession in the Kremlin. Putin's convinced of his own invincibility and seems to have developed a bunker mentality. When he can't keep reality out any longer, it's going to be hard on him, and christ knows what he'll do. My money would be on there being some general refusing to follow his orders at some point, facilitating a coup, and maybe even trying to take Putin out, Stauffenberg style. I wonder if the Russian people will wake up to the fact that they've been lied to all this time. But as you can see from certain contributors to this board, when people get radicalised by a constant diet of fascist propaganda, it's hard to get reality through to them.
What then for Russia? Disintegration into independent republics led by strongmen? The nuclear aspect makes this a frightening scenario.
You know what they say? "It's dangerous to believe your own propaganda."
Russia's budget surplus evaporates as energy revenues shrink
August figures suggest sharp drop in receipts from oil and gas exports
https://www.ft.com/content/d9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
Its a bit like a siege at the minute, they gathered around the walled city and waited till they ran out of food and water and then marched in victorious..
Who will run out of money first?
Quote from: bennydorano on September 14, 2022, 01:20:16 PM
Russia's budget surplus evaporates as energy revenues shrink
August figures suggest sharp drop in receipts from oil and gas exports
https://www.ft.com/content/d9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
That link requires a FT subscription.
Quote from: Main Street on September 14, 2022, 01:35:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 14, 2022, 01:20:16 PM
Russia's budget surplus evaporates as energy revenues shrink
August figures suggest sharp drop in receipts from oil and gas exports
https://www.ft.com/content/d9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
That link requires a FT subscription.
12 foot ladder is your friend.
https://12ft.io/
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2Fd9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
The 12 foot ladder ;D. That's a good one.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62899474
Russia has pumped serious money into disruption and disinformation in the West.
I can imagine that daft idiots like Clare Daly and Mick Wallace are easy converts to start spouting Russia propaganda.
However, I bet Ewan MacKenna would churn out the pro-Putin, anti-Zelensky stuff for free, just to get attention.
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1569739548812345356
Ukraine, a country where teachers go to war to defend their schoolchildren from russian marauders.
Ukrainian pupils meet their teacher Roman Palamarchuk who visits them from the frontline
https://youtu.be/RaTr6Yt_H1c
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.
Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?
Quote from: johnnycool on September 15, 2022, 09:10:19 AM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.
Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?
The Germans have built up decent stocks and the high prices mean that people will cut back their use a bit.
Putin can sell to China, although there may not be pipelines running that direction. But Russia may find the Chinese are not the ideal customer either, one big customer can put pressure on you.
IF, and that's an if, putin is making the balls of this war etc that the media would have you believe then you would wonder would there be someone from within who would overthrow him.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 15, 2022, 11:01:17 AM
IF, and that's an if, putin is making the balls of this war etc that the media would have you believe then you would wonder would there be someone from within who would overthrow him.
With the money possibly drying up (well no where near it was) someone is bound to be plotting something, the rich Russians have lost so much already around Europe and beyond that there has to be discussions on how to end it with saving face or overthrow him and be done with it
The buzz word is pivot, the question is can Russia pivot its gas supplies to Asia?
'Yes they can' but due to many difficulties the most optimistic forecast is that by 2030 they can supply Asia with about 50% of what they use to sell to Europe (2021 figures 160 bcm billion cubic meters).
https://www.csis.org/analysis/can-russia-execute-gas-pivot-asia (https://www.csis.org/analysis/can-russia-execute-gas-pivot-asia)
Currently, with doable adjustments they can pipe 30 bcm to Asia
But due to sanctions, essential western companies have pulled out, missing tech know how and equipment, they can not increase that flow in the short term and even long term there are limits, max 80bcm p/a
Add to that, they will have absolutely no bargaining power with China, essentially just China's bitch.
Might not even be economically viable to extract gas.
Their army is a paper tiger, Putin and cronies have siphoned off hundreds of billions over the years, their incredible resource rich economy is facing disaster. One of the worst decisions ever made to invade Ukraine, compounded by disaster after disaster, both on the battlefield and on the propaganda front. Russia are the pariahs of the western world, as Arthur Koestler poetically put it, " the scúm of the earth"
The Kremlin cannot send in more troops, they refuse to go.
Their army is sh'it, their so called crack troops, the 431 parachute regiment were shot to pieces outside Kiev and more recently the Kremlin's own Tank Guard have been decimated. For the first time ever the 431 elite parachute regiment did not march in that Moscow parade.
Even if the Kremlin declared war, it's too late to save the day. The Ukraine Army will have punched so many hole in the Kherson region they will be able to throw stones across into Crimea.
(https://i.ibb.co/F6Ck9HC/7-B4-C4538-DE26-4-BC3-828-A-9-B5-E5-C52-A4-D8-png-2526802.jpg)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 15, 2022, 11:42:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 15, 2022, 11:01:17 AM
IF, and that's an if, putin is making the balls of this war etc that the media would have you believe then you would wonder would there be someone from within who would overthrow him.
With the money possibly drying up (well no where near it was) someone is bound to be plotting something, the rich Russians have lost so much already around Europe and beyond that there has to be discussions on how to end it with saving face or overthrow him and be done with it
If there are any left.....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_mystery_deaths
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 15, 2022, 11:01:17 AM
IF, and that's an if, putin is making the balls of this war etc that the media would have you believe then you would wonder would there be someone from within who would overthrow him.
I would say in general the mean stream media are nearly a week behind events happening on the ground in Ukraine. They were a bit quicker on it with the events of the last week, but that's because twitter and telegram exploded with info. You can get a much better feel and understanding for what's happening there by following a few several twitter and telegram accounts, and I include pro Russian ones in that. There is bias in everything reported, generally the Ukrainians at official level play down a lot of their successes. There is tons of evidence that suggest that their casualty figures for the Russian army are at least 20% less than what they should be. I think there is no ifs about it, you can say with 100% certainty that Putin has and is making a complete balls of it. Id say 5/1 of Putin being removed/killed, or a complete Russian army collapse by the end of the year or both, would be very generous odds.
As I said in an early post, I get why people switch off. But that is one of things I find fascinating about it. That you are watching history unfold, that the same people switched off now, will be glued to documentaries about in years to come.
Quote from: LeoMc on September 15, 2022, 02:43:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 15, 2022, 11:42:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 15, 2022, 11:01:17 AM
IF, and that's an if, putin is making the balls of this war etc that the media would have you believe then you would wonder would there be someone from within who would overthrow him.
With the money possibly drying up (well no where near it was) someone is bound to be plotting something, the rich Russians have lost so much already around Europe and beyond that there has to be discussions on how to end it with saving face or overthrow him and be done with it
If there are any left.....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_mystery_deaths
That's why they are dead, possibly plotting
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2022, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 15, 2022, 09:10:19 AM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.
Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?
The Germans have built up decent stocks and the high prices mean that people will cut back their use a bit.
Putin can sell to China, although there may not be pipelines running that direction. But Russia may find the Chinese are not the ideal customer either, one big customer can put pressure on you.
Lets not forget about India either.
If the likes of China and India start buying gas from Russia for way less than it's trading on the international markets a lot of other countries will be tempted to get in on that action....
That was predicted to happen a long time ago but hasn't for whatever reason. It wouldn't be good for "the west" I suspect if it did happen.
Quote from: johnnycool on September 15, 2022, 03:38:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2022, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 15, 2022, 09:10:19 AM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.
Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?
The Germans have built up decent stocks and the high prices mean that people will cut back their use a bit.
Putin can sell to China, although there may not be pipelines running that direction. But Russia may find the Chinese are not the ideal customer either, one big customer can put pressure on you.
Lets not forget about India either.
If the likes of China and India start buying gas from Russia for way less than it's trading on the international markets a lot of other countries will be tempted to get in on that action....
Russia has not the infrastructure to pipe gas in any serious quantity from the Siberian reserves. As i wrote earlier, without sales to Europe they are fecked. At best they can pipe 50% of Europeans sales 2021 towards Asia by 2030. Currently they can only pipe 30% and at severely discounted prices to Asia. The Kremlin boast about their alternative, a pivot towards Asia was full of hot air. They expected European countries to fold.
I don't know anything about oil pipelines etc etc but like you say I suspect if it could have happened by now it would have happened by now.
Quote from: Main Street on September 15, 2022, 06:04:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 15, 2022, 03:38:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2022, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 15, 2022, 09:10:19 AM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.
Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?
The Germans have built up decent stocks and the high prices mean that people will cut back their use a bit.
Putin can sell to China, although there may not be pipelines running that direction. But Russia may find the Chinese are not the ideal customer either, one big customer can put pressure on you.
Lets not forget about India either.
If the likes of China and India start buying gas from Russia for way less than it's trading on the international markets a lot of other countries will be tempted to get in on that action....
Russia has not the infrastructure to pipe gas in any serious quantity from the Siberian reserves. As i wrote earlier, without sales to Europe they are fecked. At best they can pipe 50% of Europeans sales 2021 towards Asia by 2030. Currently they can only pipe 30% and at severely discounted prices to Asia. The Kremlin boast about their alternative, a pivot towards Asia was full of hot air. They expected European countries to fold.
https://www.ft.com/content/25451156-434a-4c36-96ef-774d99c89688
The best geological prospects for a game changer akin to what happened in the 2010s lie with the huge Bazhenov shale oil formation in Siberia. But western sanctions mean that the prospect of western oil majors helping Russia technologically is a geopolitical dead end.
Seafold , you need offer a 12 foot ladder with each of those exclusive subscription links. :)
Quote from: Main Street on September 15, 2022, 10:44:27 PM
Seafold , you need offer a 12 foot ladder with each of those exclusive subscription links. :)
One should have a subscription to the FT to better manage one's investments.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1570493649284378628
Evidence of systematic torture in the areas around Kharkiv recently recaptured by Ukraine. Loads of disappeared. The Shankill butchers would be amateurs compared to the Russian Army.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/sep/14/russia-ukraine-war-latest-kyiv-aims-to-consolidate-gains-in-kharkiv-biden-says-war-will-be-long-haul-live
Quote from: seafoid on September 16, 2022, 01:02:14 PM
Evidence of systematic torture in the areas around Kharkiv recently recaptured by Ukraine. Loads of disappeared. The Shankill butchers would be amateurs compared to the Russian Army.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/sep/14/russia-ukraine-war-latest-kyiv-aims-to-consolidate-gains-in-kharkiv-biden-says-war-will-be-long-haul-live
Was it as good as the torture chambers run the Brits and Yanks? Doesnt look to have as good technology. Russian torture is miles behind the west
Well said itchy, let he without sin and all that
Quote from: seafoid on September 15, 2022, 07:58:54 PM
Quote from: Main Street on September 15, 2022, 06:04:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 15, 2022, 03:38:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2022, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 15, 2022, 09:10:19 AM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.
Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?
The Germans have built up decent stocks and the high prices mean that people will cut back their use a bit.
Putin can sell to China, although there may not be pipelines running that direction. But Russia may find the Chinese are not the ideal customer either, one big customer can put pressure on you.
Lets not forget about India either.
If the likes of China and India start buying gas from Russia for way less than it's trading on the international markets a lot of other countries will be tempted to get in on that action....
Russia has not the infrastructure to pipe gas in any serious quantity from the Siberian reserves. As i wrote earlier, without sales to Europe they are fecked. At best they can pipe 50% of Europeans sales 2021 towards Asia by 2030. Currently they can only pipe 30% and at severely discounted prices to Asia. The Kremlin boast about their alternative, a pivot towards Asia was full of hot air. They expected European countries to fold.
https://www.ft.com/content/25451156-434a-4c36-96ef-774d99c89688
The best geological prospects for a game changer akin to what happened in the 2010s lie with the huge Bazhenov shale oil formation in Siberia. But western sanctions mean that the prospect of western oil majors helping Russia technologically is a geopolitical dead end.
China will do what is best for China in the medium and long term. It would have been in their interest to see the conflict continue and the West having to get involved militarily as it would have kept focus away from the South China Sea.
With Russia starting to look weak and the US able to keep an eye on their expansion southwards the Chinese may well be eyeing an expansion northwards. All those natural resources and a weakened Russia.
China and Russia are allies who think the west is weakening. If UKraine had been a success for Putin , China might have attacked Taiwan
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on September 14, 2022, 01:55:54 PM
Quote from: Main Street on September 14, 2022, 01:35:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 14, 2022, 01:20:16 PM
Russia's budget surplus evaporates as energy revenues shrink
August figures suggest sharp drop in receipts from oil and gas exports
https://www.ft.com/content/d9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
That link requires a FT subscription.
12 foot ladder is your friend.
https://12ft.io/
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2Fd9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
Thats a new one for me! Nice one :D
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62931224
Quote from: An Watcher on September 16, 2022, 01:54:02 PM
Well said itchy, let he without sin and all that
Whataboutery nonsense
I am without sin and I call them torture chambers.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FctTY8qXgAIK62q?format=jpg&name=small)
Dogs of War
https://twitter.com/i/status/1571209800213561345 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1571209800213561345)
'A dog named Lyalya participated in full liberation of Kupiansk together with Kraken division. '
Quote from: Main Street on September 16, 2022, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on September 16, 2022, 01:54:02 PM
Well said itchy, let he without sin and all that
Whataboutery nonsense
I am without sin and I call them torture chambers.
It wasn't whataboutery, I was just noting the lack of technology etc that Russians have in their torture Chambers compared to countries like the UK and USA which are much more advanced. Of course all torture Chambers are great and very important for armies to have to get info to "Save lives"
https://www.rte.ie/news/ukraine/2022/0919/1324135-ukraine-russia/
With its battlefield losses mounting, the Russian army is seeking contract soldiers for what it calls the "special military operation" in Ukraine, and is offering nearly $3,000 a month as an incentive.
A special unit stationed a recruitment truck in the southern city of Rostov on the weekend and masked soldiers handed out brochures titled "Military service on a contract -the choice of a real man."
Where does this leave Gillette?
https://youtu.be/OAkVDCqVY6w
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fc7RjqJXoAQpH8P?format=jpg&name=medium)
Putin is in a hole. Currently Ukraine is classed as a special operation. If he wants to intensify it then it becomes a war. But Putin is worried about public reaction to him personally. Because he is quite weak.
Quote from: seafoid on September 19, 2022, 12:55:53 PM
Putin is in a hole. Currently Ukraine is classed as a special operation. If he wants to intensify it then it becomes a war. But Putin is worried about public reaction to him personally. Because he is quite weak.
He had a half baked idea that he could sieze Hostomel airport, send a few hundred troops into Kyiv, seize the government buildings and install a puppet likely that crook Yanukovych. Once that failed he was in trouble
Quote from: armaghniac on September 19, 2022, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 19, 2022, 12:55:53 PM
Putin is in a hole. Currently Ukraine is classed as a special operation. If he wants to intensify it then it becomes a war. But Putin is worried about public reaction to him personally. Because he is quite weak.
He had a half baked idea that he could sieze Hostomel airport, send a few hundred troops into Kyiv, seize the government buildings and install a puppet likely that crook Yanukovych. Once that failed he was in trouble
And therein lies the problem with long established dictators. No-one is brave enough to tell them a hard truth as they are afraid of the shoot the messenger syndrome. It is easy to be a nodding dog and progress when times are good so people do.
No-one told Putin that his army was corrupt and half assed as he didn't want to hear that. They genuinely believed that the Ukranians would welcome them with open arms and that the west would do nothing. Colossal mistake for an ex KGB officer to make. Huge intelligence failings.
Quote from: keep her low this half on September 19, 2022, 03:36:23 PM
And therein lies the problem with long established dictators. No-one is brave enough to tell them a hard truth as they are afraid of the shoot the messenger syndrome. It is easy to be a nodding dog and progress when times are good so people do.
No-one told Putin that his army was corrupt and half assed as he didn't want to hear that. They genuinely believed that the Ukranians would welcome them with open arms and that the west would do nothing. Colossal mistake for an ex KGB officer to make. Huge intelligence failings.
If he ever was a good intelligence officer, which is doubtful, then while living in the Kremlin he has lost touch.
I'd say the Queen of England managed to keep a better understanding of the world after 70+ years in power, possibly because people did not think that she would have them thrown out a window.
Quote from: Itchy on September 18, 2022, 10:02:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on September 16, 2022, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on September 16, 2022, 01:54:02 PM
Well said itchy, let he without sin and all that
Whataboutery nonsense
I am without sin and I call them torture chambers.
It wasn't whataboutery, I was just noting the lack of technology etc that Russians have in their torture Chambers compared to countries like the UK and USA which are much more advanced. Of course all torture Chambers are great and very important for armies to have to get info to "Save lives"
'He is who without sin and all that' implies the whataboutery aspect.
I say we should apply equal critical examination over Russia's toxic sludge of an invasion as we do towards USA/NATO's unjust wars of aggression.
Russia has already committed the most serious of war crimes by invading Ukraine and since then there has been a tissue of horrible war crimes committed by their shít for brains army.
Even in a city like Kharkiv which once had a strongish Russian connection, has totally shifted over to Ukraine identity. The Baltic states plus the Nordic countries and Poland have 100% supported Ukraine right from the beginning. Maybe they understand the stakes better, more than anybody in western europe. Whataboutery is the mantra of the kremlin's propaganda, peddled by their world wide contingent of 'useful idiots'.
They even convinced the whole world that they had an invincible army of great military prowess :D
Very little of the Ukrainians had strong Russian identity, they hated them well bck into the early 1930's.Famine a major cause of the hate, in a way lot like here. They welcomed the Germans and held parades for them, only to be massacred by them as they saw them as a, lesser race.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 19, 2022, 08:49:46 PM
Very little of the Ukrainians had strong Russian identity, they hated them well bck into the early 1930's.Famine a major cause of the hate, in a way lot like here. They welcomed the Germans and held parades for them, only to be massacred by them as they saw them as a, lesser race.
That's true but around 20% or so of Ukrainians are Russian speakers and live in the East and in Crimea. Shakhtar Donetsk come from a russian speaking area.
You think the majority of Ukrainians would speak Russia but like us and English. Most Polish if the old era could speak Russian, German foreby Polish, now they all over here, they added English to their repertoire.
(Left) Nazi Invasion of Ukraine, 1943, Kharkiv. (Right) russian Invasion of Ukraine, 2022, Kharkiv.
(https://preview.redd.it/uy7iypwttxm91.png?width=2000&format=png&auto=webp&s=dd9f87b9911f6faf27c7fe785e43e64e58d8247a)
Quote from: seafoid on September 19, 2022, 08:53:22 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 19, 2022, 08:49:46 PM
Very little of the Ukrainians had strong Russian identity, they hated them well bck into the early 1930's.Famine a major cause of the hate, in a way lot like here. They welcomed the Germans and held parades for them, only to be massacred by them as they saw them as a, lesser race.
That's true but around 20% or so of Ukrainians are Russian speakers and live in the East and in Crimea. Shakhtar Donetsk come from a russian speaking area.
You do realise that hordes of Russians were planted into Ukraine, that's how you tally Russians in the nearby republics, by the horde.
The % of Russian speakers means nothing in a country where Ukrainian was a degraded language until independence was obtained with 90% of the vote supporting it in a referendum. Zelensky was not fluent in the Ukrainian language and had to brush up rapidly after the invasion. Many older people were only taught Russian in schools.
The important stat is how many Ukrainians identify as being Ukrainian, that's estimated to being over 90% at present and that's a rock solid identification.
Long range US missiles are a hoor
https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0920/1324322-ukraine/Russia's Black Sea fleet has relocated some of its submarines from port of Sevastopol in Crimea to Novorossiysk in Krasnodor Krai in southern Russia, the British military has said.
https://www.ft.com/content/0d41cd08-eab3-44e0-a16e-1aa22bb6beb3
Ukrainian officials say they have been forced to ration ammunition to a few strikes a day. "We know all the co-ordinates, all the locations of Russian depots and command and control stations — [the lack of ammunition] is limiting the Ukrainian ability to truly change the situation on the ground," said one official.
https://mobile.twitter.com/AZmilitary1/status/1556687445311340545The Pentagon will allocate another $1 billion in military aid to Ukraine. This package includes additional ammunition for HIMARS, ATACMS, Javelin and 75,000 155-mm shells
https://theconversation.com/kharkiv-offensive-has-shown-the-west-that-ukraine-can-win-190501
Now, with the blitzkrieg liberation of most of the Kharkiv oblast, and the obviously abject and ramshackle state of the Russian armed forces made even more apparent, Ukrainian victory looks truly achievable for the first time.
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2022, 05:40:25 PM
https://theconversation.com/kharkiv-offensive-has-shown-the-west-that-ukraine-can-win-190501
Now, with the blitzkrieg liberation of most of the Kharkiv oblast, and the obviously abject and ramshackle state of the Russian armed forces made even more apparent, Ukrainian victory looks truly achievable for the first time.
Eh no , A Ukraine victory looked on the cards after the Russ army failed to make any more ground in the south and east, and then the HIMARS and other weapons arrived on the scene, after that it was just a matter of time. But it is not just the weapons supplied, it is also how the UA have adapted into operating as a modern intelligent army, from their starting point of being a soviet based toxic army and managing to do all that midstream amidst battle,
It's unheard of in military history for an army to complete such a pivot in the middle of a war.
So Putin threatening nuclear action for any attacks on russian territories with russian territories including ones they claimed from Ukraine. Great.
Where does that end?
Quote from: Main Street on September 20, 2022, 11:20:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2022, 05:40:25 PM
https://theconversation.com/kharkiv-offensive-has-shown-the-west-that-ukraine-can-win-190501
Now, with the blitzkrieg liberation of most of the Kharkiv oblast, and the obviously abject and ramshackle state of the Russian armed forces made even more apparent, Ukrainian victory looks truly achievable for the first time.
Eh no , A Ukraine victory looked on the cards after the Russ army failed to make any more ground in the south and east, and then the HIMARS and other weapons arrived on the scene, after that it was just a matter of time. But it is not just the weapons supplied, it is also how the UA have adapted into operating as a modern intelligent army, from their starting point of being a soviet based toxic army and managing to do all that midstream amidst battle,
It's unheard of in military history for an army to complete such a pivot in the middle of a war.
That' s bollocks.
Weapons and Grind and superior leadership but in May it was all Russia
https://warontherocks.com/2022/05/would-we-do-better-hubris-and-validation-in-ukraine/
Ukraine also appears to be ceding ground in the Donbas to a slow, grinding Russian advance.
Ukraine will not regain any territory Russians do not want it2regain. isn't in position do so militarily nor thru negotiations. simply have2accept defeat+give up east+south+accept loss source of 70-80% of former GDP All this completely foreseeable since first day war"
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 21, 2022, 08:51:04 AM
So Putin threatening nuclear action for any attacks on russian territories with russian territories including ones they claimed from Ukraine. Great.
Where does that end?
I don't know but lets enjoy this life we have at the moment as this cnut will save face doing whatever is necessary to not look like a failure!!
It's looking now to be a showdown and this hand Putin has played is going to be a pretty good bluff or an embarrassing loss... None of those calls will be good either way
Tbh - the best approach is not to think about it. He will keep threatening nuclear any which way. Whether he delivers on it time will tell.
Still find it amazing that he has clearly lost the plot and yet still has the backing of so many loyal goons.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 21, 2022, 11:49:17 AM
Still find it amazing that he has clearly lost the plot and yet still has the backing of so many loyal goons.
Yeah. He now says we will take your country but if you try to take it back we'll nuke you. How does any Russian think that's a good idea. There is bound to be a coup at some point the way this is going - surely?
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 21, 2022, 11:54:18 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 21, 2022, 11:49:17 AM
Still find it amazing that he has clearly lost the plot and yet still has the backing of so many loyal goons.
Yeah. He now says we will take your country but if you try to take it back we'll nuke you. How does any Russian think that's a good idea. There is bound to be a coup at some point the way this is going - surely?
Russia does revolutions rather than coups.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on September 21, 2022, 12:13:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 21, 2022, 11:54:18 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 21, 2022, 11:49:17 AM
Still find it amazing that he has clearly lost the plot and yet still has the backing of so many loyal goons.
Yeah. He now says we will take your country but if you try to take it back we'll nuke you. How does any Russian think that's a good idea. There is bound to be a coup at some point the way this is going - surely?
Russia does revolutions rather than coups.
They are rather revolting.
List is getting longer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_mystery_deaths
Conscription just has that effect on a populace even in Russia,
thousands have marched on the streets.
Protests in Moscow and St Petersburg today have grown pretty large. People chanting "No to War!" Dozens of arrests reported
https://twitter.com/i/status/1572645894968987648 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572645894968987648)
The traffic jam at the border with Russia/Finland has pilled up to 35KM and is rising by the hour, it is the only border who is still open for Russian civilians with shengen visas, after Putin announced he will send 300.000 new troops to Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194)
"Putin in the trenches" - chanting protesters in Moscow
https://twitter.com/i/status/1572629534289309698 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572629534289309698)
There are an awful lot of russians who are going to be conscripted here without much military training etc and could see a very sorry end. While Russia are obviously the aggressors here you really wouldn't want to be a Russian citizen at all and would have to feel for some. It can't be a good place to be.
Quote from: Main Street on September 22, 2022, 12:48:38 AM
The traffic jam at the border with Russia/Finland has pilled up to 35KM and is rising by the hour, it is the only border who is still open for Russian civilians with shengen visas, after Putin announced he will send 300.000 new troops to Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194)
https://www.thejournal.ie/debunked-queues-traffic-finland-russia-border-5872693-Sep2022/
Sure in WW2 they fired then into the front line with no training at all, big reason Russia lost 27million, Germany supposely lost the battle of Kursk even though the casualties rate was 6:1, and tanks lost averaged 9:1 in Germany favour. The landings at Anzio was the reason the Germans withdrew. You can't throw men running into a mg34/42 machine gun, Russia done just that. War changed alot, air power still king, but Artillery got bigger, drone strikes, anti tank weapons have make the day of the tank redundant.
irsp tankie types very quiet as putin sends thousands of working class russians to their death
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 22, 2022, 10:17:44 AM
Sure in WW2 they fired then into the front line with no training at all, big reason Russia lost 27million, Germany supposely lost the battle of Kursk even though the casualties rate was 6:1, and tanks lost averaged 9:1 in Germany favour. The landings at Anzio was the reason the Germans withdrew. You can't throw men running into a mg34/42 machine gun, Russia done just that. War changed alot, air power still king, but Artillery got bigger, drone strikes, anti tank weapons have make the day of the tank redundant.
The Germans lost the war in Stalingrad and they also ran out of petrol.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 22, 2022, 10:17:44 AM
Sure in WW2 they fired then into the front line with no training at all, big reason Russia lost 27million, Germany supposely lost the battle of Kursk even though the casualties rate was 6:1, and tanks lost averaged 9:1 in Germany favour. The landings at Anzio was the reason the Germans withdrew. You can't throw men running into a mg34/42 machine gun, Russia done just that. War changed alot, air power still king, but Artillery got bigger, drone strikes, anti tank weapons have make the day of the tank redundant.
I'm amazed how the Russians didn't gain air supremacy and then they could essentially have done what they wanted. Surely they have the aircraft numbers to squash the Ukraine airforce, but they seem more interested in blundering forward and back with their artillery. It puzzles me.
is irish government looking into taking in russians fleeing putin mobilazation
Quote from: Eire90 on September 23, 2022, 11:52:41 PM
is irish government looking into taking in russians fleeing putin mobilazation
Will place them I. Same hotels as the Ukrainian refugees
Quote from: Rudi on September 22, 2022, 08:27:42 AM
Quote from: Main Street on September 22, 2022, 12:48:38 AM
The traffic jam at the border with Russia/Finland has pilled up to 35KM and is rising by the hour, it is the only border who is still open for Russian civilians with shengen visas, after Putin announced he will send 300.000 new troops to Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194)
https://www.thejournal.ie/debunked-queues-traffic-finland-russia-border-5872693-Sep2022/
+
Fantastic work, how about
a great season for a vacation in Mongolia? https://twitter.com/i/status/1572820087802839040 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572820087802839040)
Going either to Georgia or to Armenia? https://twitter.com/rajdianos/status/1573090392039641088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/rajdianos/status/1573090392039641088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Here's a former Z Warrior fleeing the scene
A massive gathering of vehicles with "Z" signs was spotted near the Russian border. But there is one nuance...
https://twitter.com/AnonOpsSE/status/1572605799343562757/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/AnonOpsSE/status/1572605799343562757/photo/1)
In contrast, this is Kiev 2014, Ukrainian citizens on street protests overthrowing their kremlin toxified government, robot cops being battered off the streets with an intensity.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1572927865171202049 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572927865171202049)
That's what's called true resilience to corrupt governance.
Quote from: Sportacus on September 22, 2022, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 22, 2022, 10:17:44 AM
Sure in WW2 they fired then into the front line with no training at all, big reason Russia lost 27million, Germany supposely lost the battle of Kursk even though the casualties rate was 6:1, and tanks lost averaged 9:1 in Germany favour. The landings at Anzio was the reason the Germans withdrew. You can't throw men running into a mg34/42 machine gun, Russia done just that. War changed alot, air power still king, but Artillery got bigger, drone strikes, anti tank weapons have make the day of the tank redundant.
I'm amazed how the Russians didn't gain air supremacy and then they could essentially have done what they wanted. Surely they have the aircraft numbers to squash the Ukraine airforce, but they seem more interested in blundering forward and back with their artillery. It puzzles me.
The Russian air force looks impressive, has some tasty machines, but isn't a 'holistic' project, it's plagued by bits that don't work.
For example a long range missile launcher won't work because the long range detector technology is defunct therefore the fighter plane has to get up close and personal to launch rocket with any degree of accuracy, risking detection and destruction.The Russ air force are extra wary of losing their precious machines, that's one explanation for their absence in battle.
The other day, the UAF report
Ukrainian Air Force carries out 41 air raids on Russian positions in past 24 hours - General Staff . The attacks hit 21 areas of Russian troops and equipment concentration, 4 strongholds, 15 positions of anti-aircraft missile systems, as per the Staff https://tinyurl.com/35t5sw63How was that possible? 15 positions of anti-aircraft missile systems being hit ?
because the UKR Sukhois and MiGs are now equipped with USAF anti-radar missiles and these are lethal.
BBC News - Nord Stream leaks: Sabotage to blame, says EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63057966
Tough talk from Ursula. Interesting as most of the twitter halfwits think it was the Americans who are responsible.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 28, 2022, 10:16:10 AM
BBC News - Nord Stream leaks: Sabotage to blame, says EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63057966
Tough talk from Ursula. Interesting as most of the twitter halfwits think it was the Americans who are responsible.
There are MEPs thanking America.
Americans had a military presence along the line in the days leading up to it.
Biden had said they would bring an end to it.
Aren't you just a teency bit curious? ;D
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 28, 2022, 10:18:13 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 28, 2022, 10:16:10 AM
BBC News - Nord Stream leaks: Sabotage to blame, says EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63057966
Tough talk from Ursula. Interesting as most of the twitter halfwits think it was the Americans who are responsible.
There are MEPs thanking America.
Americans had a military presence along the line in the days leading up to it.
Biden had said they would bring an end to it.
Aren't you just a teency bit curious? ;D
It's not beyond the Americans and it's hard to see why the Russians would have sabotaged their own pipeline...
Quote from: bennydorano on September 28, 2022, 10:16:10 AM
BBC News - Nord Stream leaks: Sabotage to blame, says EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63057966
Tough talk from Ursula. Interesting as most of the twitter halfwits think it was the Americans who are responsible.
Maybe it's because Biden said at the start of the year that they would take it out.
Oh I think the Americans are more than capable of carrying out such an action, it's the Russian reaction (or lack of) that makes me think the Americans didn't on this occasion tho.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2022, 12:30:06 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on September 23, 2022, 11:52:41 PM
is irish government looking into taking in russians fleeing putin mobilazation
Will place them I. Same hotels as the Ukrainian refugees
Maybe they can join the Irish students in camping out in tents and in their cars
Theres a motive (so Europe buys US oil)
Theres a means (self explanatory)
It's at least worth entertaining.
I get that twitter has some absolute weapons on it but occasionally they get it right (hunter biden laptop). I remember it being laughed off as ridiculous that Hunter got his laptop fixed halfway across the country, but there you go.
Quote from: markl121 on September 28, 2022, 10:45:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2022, 12:30:06 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on September 23, 2022, 11:52:41 PM
is irish government looking into taking in russians fleeing putin mobilazation
Will place them I. Same hotels as the Ukrainian refugees
Maybe they can join the Irish students in camping out in tents and in their cars
Perhaps they should state that they will accept Russian builders, plumbers, architects, civil engineers etc and get them to build houses.
Offer EU citizenship to anyone that builds several houses
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 28, 2022, 11:32:33 AM
Theres a motive (so Europe buys US oil)
Theres a means (self explanatory)
It's at least worth entertaining.
I get that twitter has some absolute weapons on it but occasionally they get it right (hunter biden laptop). I remember it being laughed off as ridiculous that Hunter got his laptop fixed halfway across the country, but there you go.
Don't recall anything like that. His roots are in Delaware and DC after all, and I'm pretty sure the family still has home(s) there.
It's only the first of October and there are fireworks in Crimea already
https://twitter.com/ItsBorys/status/1576229813299605504
Putin's Speech
President of Russia Vladimir Putin: Dear citizens of Russia, citizens of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, residents of Zaporizhzhya and Kherson regions, State Duma deputies and senators of the Russian Federation,
You know, referendums were held in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, Zaporizhzhya and Kherson regions. Their results have been summed up, the results are known. People made their choice, an unequivocal choice.
Today we are signing agreements on the admission of the Donetsk People's Republic, the Lugansk People's Republic, the Zaporizhzhya region and the Kherson region to Russia. I am confident that the Federal Assembly will support the constitutional laws on the adoption and formation of four new regions and four new regions of the Russian Federation in Russia, because this is the will of millions of people.
(Applause.)
And this, of course, is their right, their inalienable right, which is enshrined in the first article of the UN Charter, which explicitly states the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples.
Let me repeat: this is the inalienable right of people, it is based on historical unity, in the name of which generations of our ancestors, those who created and defended Russia from the origins of Ancient Russia for centuries, won. Here, in Novorossiya, Rumyantsev, Suvorov and Ushakov fought, catherine II and Potemkin founded new cities. Our grandfathers and great-grandfathers stood here to the death during the Great Patriotic War.
We will always remember the heroes of the "Russian Spring", those who did not reconcile themselves in 2014 with the neo-Nazi coup d'état in Ukraine, all those who died for the right to speak their native language, to preserve their culture, traditions, faith, for the right to live. These are the soldiers of Donbass, the martyrs of the "Odessa Khatyn", the victims of inhuman terrorist attacks staged by the Kiev regime. These are volunteers and militiamen, civilians, children, women, old people, Russians, Ukrainians, people of various nationalities. This is the real people's leader of Donetsk Alexander Zakharchenko, these are military commanders Arsen Pavlov and Vladimir Zhoga, Olga Kochura and Alexei Mozgovoy, this is the prosecutor of the Lugansk Republic Sergey Gorenko. This is the paratrooper Nurmagomed Gadzhimagomedov and all our soldiers and officers who died the death of the brave during a special military operation. They're heroes. (Applause.) Heroes of the Great Russia. And I ask you to honor their memory with a minute of silence.
(Minute of silence.)
Thank you.
Behind the choice of millions of residents in the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics, in the Zaporozhye and Kherson regions is our common destiny and thousand-year history. People passed on this spiritual connection to their children and grandchildren. Despite all the trials, they carried through the years the love for Russia. And no one can destroy this feeling in us. That is why both older generations and young people, those who were born after the tragedy of the collapse of the Soviet Union, voted for our unity, for our common future.
In 1991, in the Belovezhskaya Pushcha, without asking the will of ordinary citizens, representatives of the party elites of that time decided to collapse the USSR, and people suddenly found themselves cut off from their homeland. This tore apart and dismembered our national community and turned into a national catastrophe. Just as once after the revolution the borders of the Union republics were cut behind the scenes, so the last leaders of the Soviet Union, contrary to the direct expression of the will of the majority of people in the referendum of 1991, destroyed our great country, put the peoples simply before the fact.
I admit that they did not even fully understand what they were doing and what consequences this would inevitably lead to in the end. But it doesn't matter. There is no Soviet Union, the past cannot be returned. And Russia does not need it today, we do not aspire to this. But there is nothing stronger than the determination of millions of people who, by their culture, faith, traditions, language, consider themselves part of Russia, whose ancestors lived for centuries in a single state. There is nothing stronger than the determination of these people to return to their true, historical Fatherland.
For eight long years, people in the Donbas were subjected to genocide, shelling and blockade, and in Kherson and Zaporozhye they tried to criminally cultivate hatred for Russia, for everything Russian. Now, already during the referendums, the Kiev regime threatened with reprisals, death to school teachers, women who worked in election commissions, intimidated with repression millions of people who came to express their will. But the unbroken people of Donbass, Zaporozhye and Kherson have spoken their word.
I want the Kiev authorities and their real masters in the West to hear me, so that everyone remembers this: people living in Lugansk and Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporozhye become our citizens forever. (Applause.)
We call on the Kiev regime to immediately cease fire, all hostilities, the war that it unleashed back in 2014, and return to the negotiating table. We are ready for this, it has been said more than once. But the choice of the people in Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhye and Kherson will not be discussed, it has been made, Russia will not betray it. (Applause.) And today's Kiev authorities should treat this free expression of the will of people with respect, and nothing else. This is the only way to peace.
We will defend our land with all the forces and means at our disposal and will do everything to ensure the safe life of our people. This is the great liberating mission of our people.
We will definitely rebuild the destroyed cities and towns, housing, schools, hospitals, theatres and museums, restore and develop industrial enterprises, factories, infrastructure, social, pension, healthcare and education systems.
Of course, we will work to improve the level of security. Together we will make sure that citizens in the new regions feel the support of the entire people of Russia, the whole country, all the republics, all the territories and regions of our vast Motherland. (Applause.)
Dear friends and colleagues!
Today I would like to appeal to the soldiers and officers who are participating in the special military operation, to the soldiers of Donbass and Novorossiya, to those who, after the decree on partial mobilization, join the ranks of the Armed Forces, fulfilling their patriotic duty, who themselves come to the military recruitment offices at the call of their hearts. I would like to appeal to their parents, wives and children about what our people are fighting for, what enemy is confronting us, who is throwing the world into new wars and crises, deriving their bloody benefits from this tragedy.
Our compatriots, our brothers and sisters in Ukraine – the native part of our united people – saw with their own eyes what the ruling circles of the so-called West are preparing for all of humanity. Here, in fact, they just threw off their masks, showed their true plans.
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the West decided that the world, all of us, would forever have to put up with its dictates. Then, in 1991, the West hoped that Russia would not recover from such upheavals and would continue to fall apart on its own. Yes, it almost happened – we remember the 90s, the terrible 90s, hungry, cold and hopeless. But Russia has resisted, revived, strengthened, and regained its rightful place in the world.
At the same time, the West has been looking for and continues to look for a new chance to hit us, to weaken and destroy Russia, which has always been dreamed of, to fragment our state, to pit peoples against each other, to condemn them to poverty and extinction. It simply haunts them that there is such a great, huge country in the world with its territory, natural resources, resources, with a people who cannot and will never live by someone else's orders.
The West is ready to step over everything to preserve the neocolonial system that allows it to parasitize, in fact, plunder the world at the expense of the power of the dollar and technological dictates, collect real tribute from humanity, extract the main source of unearned well-being, the rent of the hegemon. The preservation of this rent is their key, genuine and absolutely self-serving motive. That is why it is in their interest to completely de-sovereignize us. Hence their aggression against independent states, traditional values and original cultures, attempts to undermine international and integration processes beyond their control, new world currencies and centers of technological development. It is critical for them that all countries surrender their sovereignty to the United States.
The ruling elites of some states voluntarily agree to do this, voluntarily agree to become vassals; others are bribed, intimidated. And if it does not work out, they destroy entire states, leaving behind humanitarian disasters, disasters, ruins, millions of ruined, distorted human destinies, terrorist enclaves, social disaster zones, protectorates, colonies and semi-colonies. They don't care, just to get their own benefit.
I want to stress once again that it is precisely in greed, in the intention to preserve its unrestricted power, that the real reasons for the hybrid war that the "collective West" is waging against Russia. They don't want freedom for us, they want us to be a colony. They do not want equal cooperation, but robbery. They want to see us not as a free society, but as a crowd of soulless slaves.
For them, the direct threat is our thought and philosophy, and therefore they encroach on our philosophers. Our culture and art are a danger to them, so they try to ban them. Our development and prosperity are also a threat to them – competition is growing. They don't need Russia at all, we need it. (Applause.)
I want to remind you that the claims to world domination in the past have been repeatedly broken by the courage and resilience of our people. Russia will always be Russia. We will still defend our values and our Motherland.
The West is counting on impunity, on the fact that it will get away with everything. As a matter of fact, they've gotten away with it so far. Agreements in the field of strategic security fly into the trash; agreements reached at the highest political level are declared fables; firm promises not to expand NATO eastward as soon as they were bought into by our former leaders turned into a dirty deception; treaties on missile defence and intermediate-range and shorter-range missiles have been unilaterally torn up under far-fetched pretexts.
All we hear from all sides is that the West is upholding a rules-based order. Where did they come from? Who has ever seen these rules? Who agreed? Listen, this is just nonsense, a complete deception, double or already triple standards! Fools are designed simply.
Russia is a great thousand-year-old power, a civilizational country, and it will not live by such manipulated, false rules. (Applause.)
It was the so-called West that trampled on the principle of the inviolability of borders, and now at its own discretion decides who has the right to self-determination and who does not, who is unworthy of it. Why they decide so, who gave them such a right is unclear. To themselves.
That is why they are wildly angry about the choice of people in Crimea, Sevastopol, Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhye and Kherson. This West has no moral right to evaluate him, not even to stutter about the freedom of democracy. No and never has been!
Western elites deny not only national sovereignty and international law. Their hegemony has a pronounced character of totalitarianism, despotism and apartheid. They brazenly divide the world into their vassals, into the so-called civilized countries and into all the others who, according to the plan of today's Western racists, should replenish the list of barbarians and savages. False labels – "rogue country", "authoritarian regime" – are already ready, they stigmatize entire peoples and states, and this is nothing new. There is nothing new in this: the Western elites as they were, remained so – colonialist. They discriminate, divide peoples into first and other varieties.
We have never accepted and will never accept such political nationalism and racism. And what, if not racism, is Russophobia, which is now spreading around the world? What, if not racism, is the categorical conviction of the West that its civilization, neoliberal culture is an indisputable model for the whole world? "Whoever is not with us is against us." It even sounds weird.
Even repentance for their own historical crimes is shifted by Western elites to everyone else, demanding that both the citizens of their countries and other peoples be responsible for something to which they have nothing to do at all, for example, during the period of colonial conquests.
It is worth reminding the West that it began its colonial policy in the Middle Ages, and then followed by the world slave trade, the genocide of Indian tribes in America, the plundering of India, Africa, the wars of England and France against China, as a result of which he was forced to open his ports to the opium trade. What they did was to hook entire nations on drugs, purposefully exterminate entire ethnic groups for the sake of land and resources, and arrange a real hunt for people as beasts. It is contrary to human nature itself, truth, freedom and justice.
And we are proud that in the twentieth century it was our country that led the anti-colonial movement, which opened up opportunities for many peoples of the world to develop, to reduce poverty and inequality, to defeat hunger and disease.
I would like to emphasise that one of the reasons for the centuries-old Russophobia and undisguised anger of these Western elites towards Russia is precisely that we did not allow ourselves to be robbed during the colonial conquests and forced the Europeans to conduct trade for mutual benefit. This was achieved by creating a strong centralized state in Russia, which developed, strengthened on the great moral values of Orthodoxy, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism, on Russian culture and Russian word open to all.
It is known that plans for interventions in Russia were repeatedly made, they tried to use both the Time of Troubles of the early XVII century, and the period of upheavals after 1917 – failed. The West still managed to get to the riches of Russia at the end of the XX century, when the state was destroyed. Back then, we were called friends and partners, but in fact they treated us like a colony – trillions of dollars were pumped out of the country according to a variety of schemes. We all remember everything, we have not forgotten anything.
And these days, people in Donetsk and Lugansk, in Kherson and Zaporozhye spoke in favor of restoring our historical unity. Thank you! (Applause.)
Western countries have been saying for centuries that they bring freedom and democracy to other peoples. Quite the opposite: instead of democracy, there is suppression and exploitation; instead of freedom, enslavement and violence. The entire unipolar world order is inherently anti-democratic and unfree, it is deceitful and hypocritical through and through.
The United States is the only country in the world that has twice used nuclear weapons, destroying the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. By the way, we set a precedent.
Let me also remind you that the United States, together with the British, turned Dresden, Hamburg, Cologne and many other German cities into ruins without any military necessity during the Second World War. And this was done defiantly, without any, I repeat, military necessity. There was only one goal: as in the case of the nuclear bombing in Japan, to intimidate both our country and the whole world.
The United States left a terrible trace in the memory of the peoples of Korea and Vietnam with barbaric "carpet" bombings, the use of napalm and chemical weapons.
They still actually occupy Germany, Japan, the Republic of Korea and other countries and at the same time cynically call them equal allies. Look, I wonder what kind of alliance this is? The whole world knows that the leaders of these countries are being monitored, the first persons of these states are installing listening devices not only in office, but also in residential premises. It's a real shame. Shame on those who do this, and on those who, like a slave, silently and meekly swallow this rudeness.
They call orders and rude, insulting shouts against their vassals Euro-Atlantic solidarity, the development of biological weapons, experiments on living people, including in Ukraine, noble medical research.
It was with their destructive policies, wars, and looting that they provoked today's colossal surge in migration flows. Millions of people suffer deprivation, humiliation, death by the thousands, trying to get to the same Europe.
Bread is being exported from Ukraine now. Where is he going under the pretext of "ensuring food security in the world's poorest countries"? Where is it going? Everything goes to the same European countries. There, five percent only went to the poorest countries in the world. Again, another swindle and outright deception.
The American elite, in fact, uses the tragedy of these people to weaken their competitors, to destroy nation-states. This also applies to Europe, this also applies to the identity of France, Italy, Spain, and other countries with a long history.
Washington is demanding more and more sanctions against Russia, and most European politicians dutifully agree with this. They clearly understand that the United States, pushing for the complete rejection by the EU of Russian energy and other resources, is working practically to deindustrialize Europe, to completely take over the European market – they understand everything, these elites are European, they understand everything, they prefer to serve other people's interests. This is no longer a lackey, but a direct betrayal of their peoples. But God is with them, it's their business.
But the Anglo-Saxons no longer have enough sanctions, they have moved to sabotage – incredibly, but a fact – having organized explosions on the international gas pipelines of Nord Stream, which pass along the bottom of the Baltic Sea, they actually began to destroy the pan-European energy infrastructure. It is obvious to everyone who benefits from this. Who benefits, he did, of course.
The dictate of the United States is based on brute force, on fist law. It is beautifully wrapped, it happens without any wrapping, but the essence is the same – fist right. Hence the deployment and maintenance of hundreds of military bases in all corners of the world, the expansion of NATO, attempts to put together new military alliances, such as AUKUS and the like. Active work is also underway to create a military-political link between Washington and Seoul and Tokyo. All those states that possess or aspire to possess genuine strategic sovereignty and are able to challenge Western hegemony are automatically designated as enemies.
It is on these principles that the military doctrines of the United States and NATO are built, requiring, no less than total domination. Western elites present their neocolonial plans just as hypocritically, even with a claim to peacefulness, talk about some kind of containment, and such a disingenuous word wanders from one strategy to another, and, in fact, means only one thing – the undermining of any sovereign centers of development.
We have already heard about containing Russia, China, Iran. I believe that other countries in Asia, Latin America, Africa, the Middle East, as well as current partners and allies of the United States, are also in the queue. We know that if they don't like it, they impose sanctions against their allies – sometimes against one bank, then against another; sometimes against one company, then against another. It's the same practice, and it will expand. They have everyone in their crosshairs, including our closest neighbors, the CIS countries.
At the same time, the West has clearly and for a long time been wishful thinking. So, starting a sanctions blitzkrieg against Russia, they believed that they could once again build the whole world on their own command. But, as it turned out, such a bright prospect does not excite everyone – except for complete political masochists and fans of other non-traditional forms of international relations. Most states refuse to "take under the visor", and choose a reasonable way of cooperation with Russia.
The West clearly did not expect such disobedience from them. They are just used to acting according to a template, taking everything by snoring, blackmail, bribery, intimidation, and convince themselves that these methods will work forever, as if ossified and frozen in the past.
Such overconfidence is a direct product not only of the notorious concept of one's own exceptionalism – although this, of course, is surprising simply – but also of a real "information hunger" in the West. The truth was drowned in an ocean of myths, illusions and fakes, using extremely aggressive propaganda, lying for nothing, like Goebbels. The more incredible the lie, the faster they will believe it – that's how they act, according to this principle.
But people cannot be fed printed dollars and euros. It is impossible to feed these pieces of paper, and it is impossible to heat the home with a virtual, inflated capitalization of Western social networks. All of this is important, what I'm talking about. But no less important is what has just been said: you can't feed anyone with papers – you need food, and you can't heat anyone with these inflated capitalizations either – energy is needed.
Therefore, politicians in Europe, for example, have to convince their fellow citizens to eat less, wash less often, and dress warmly at home. And those who begin to ask fair questions: "Actually, why is this so?" are immediately declared enemies, extremists and radicals. They turn the needle on Russia, they say: here, they say, who is the source of all your troubles. They lie again.
What I want to emphasize is that there is every reason to believe that the Western elites are not going to look for constructive ways out of the global food and energy crisis that arose through their fault, precisely through their fault, as a result of their long-term policy long before our special military operation in Ukraine, in Donbass. We do not intend to solve the problems of injustice and inequality. There is a fear that they are ready to use other, familiar to them, recipes.
And here it is worth recalling that from the contradictions of the early XX century, the West emerged through the First World War. Profits from the Second World War allowed the United States to finally overcome the consequences of the Great Depression and become the largest economy in the world, to impose on the planet the power of the dollar as a global reserve currency. And the overdue crisis of the 80s – and in the 80s of the last century the crisis also worsened – the West largely overcame it by appropriating the heritage and resources of the collapsed and collapsed Soviet Union. That's a fact.
Now, in order to get out of the next tangle of contradictions, they need to break Russia and other states that choose a sovereign path of development at all costs in order to further plunder other people's wealth and at this expense close and plug their holes. If this does not happen, I do not rule out that they will try to completely bring the system to collapse, to which everything can be blamed, or, God forbid, decide to use the well-known formula "the war will write everything off."
Russia understands its responsibility to the international community and will do everything to bring such hotheads to life.
Clearly, the current neocolonial model is ultimately doomed. But I repeat that its real owners will cling to it to the end. They simply have nothing to offer the world except to maintain the same system of looting and racketeering.
In fact, they spit on the natural right of billions of people, the majority of humanity, to freedom and justice, to determine their own future. Now they have completely moved to a radical denial of moral norms, religion, and family.
Let's answer very simple questions for ourselves. I would like to return to what I said, and I would like to address all the citizens of the country – not only the colleagues who are in this hall – all the citizens of Russia: do we really want us, here, in our country, in Russia, to have "parent number one", "number two", "number three" (completely crazy already there!)? Do we want perversions to be imposed on children from primary school in our schools that lead to degradation and extinction? That they were told that in addition to women and men, there were allegedly some other genders and offered to undergo sex reassignment surgery? Do we want all this for our country and our children? For us, all this is unacceptable, we have a different, our own future.
Let me repeat that the dictatorship of the Western elites is directed against all societies, including the peoples of the Western countries themselves. It's a challenge to everyone. Such a complete denial of man, the overthrow of faith and traditional values, the suppression of freedom acquires the features of a "religion on the contrary" – outright Satanism. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ, denouncing the false prophets, says, "By their fruits ye shall know them." And these poisonous fruits are already obvious to people – not only in our country, in all countries, including for many people in the West itself.
The world has entered a period of revolutionary transformations, they are of a fundamental nature. New centers of development are being formed, they represent the majority – the majority! – the world community and are ready not only to declare their interests, but also to defend them, and in multipolarity they see an opportunity to strengthen their sovereignty, which means to gain true freedom, a historical perspective, their right to independent, creative, original development, to a harmonious process.
All over the world, including in Europe and the United States, as I have already said, we have many like-minded people, and we feel, we see their support. Within a wide variety of countries and societies, a liberation, anti-colonial movement against unipolar hegemony is already developing. Its subjectivity will only increase. It is this power that will determine the future geopolitical reality.
Dear friends!
Today we are fighting for a fair and free path, first of all for ourselves, for Russia, for the fact that dictate and despotism will forever remain in the past. I am convinced that countries and peoples understand that a policy built on the exceptionalism of anyone, on the suppression of other cultures and peoples, is essentially criminal, that we must turn this shameful page. The breakdown of Western hegemony that has begun is irreversible. And again, it won't be like it before.
The battlefield to which fate and history have called us is the battlefield for our people, for the great historical Russia. (Applause.) For the great historical Russia, for future generations, for our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.We must protect them from enslavement, from monstrous experiments that are aimed at crippling their consciousness and soul.
Today we are fighting so that no one will ever think that Russia, our people, our language, our culture can be taken and erased from history. Today we need the consolidation of the entire society, and such cohesion can only be based on sovereignty, freedom, creation and justice. Our values are humanity, mercy and compassion.
And I want to conclude my speech with the words of a true patriot Ivan Aleksandrovich Ilyin: "If I consider Russia to be my Motherland, it means that I love, contemplate and think in Russian, Sing and speak Russian; that I believe in the spiritual forces of the Russian people. His spirit is my spirit; his fate is my destiny; his suffering is my grief; its heyday is my joy."
These words are followed by a great spiritual choice, which for more than a thousand years of Russian statehood was followed by many generations of our ancestors. Today, this choice is made by us, made by the citizens of the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics, residents of Zaporozhye and Kherson regions. They made the choice to be with their people, to be with the Motherland, to live its fate, to win with it.
Behind us – however, behind us – Russia!
(Applause.)
Since 1945 the rule of law globally has been based on the concept of the permanence of borders. Germany did not claim East Prissia in 1991 . Putin is wasting his time.
That's because the Germans there had long since been expelled!
Man delusional, only think keeping Russia afloat is oil been redirected to China, India etc, that was cut off it be lights out for them. Then again Japan went to war looking to claim natural resources
.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 02, 2022, 09:42:09 AM
That's because the Germans there had long since been expelled!
46 years isn't long in geopolitics. The plantation of Ulster started in 1607.
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2022, 12:16:19 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 02, 2022, 09:42:09 AM
That's because the Germans there had long since been expelled!
46 years isn't long in geopolitics. The plantation of Ulster started in 1607.
Hah! I don't want to completely underestimate the effect the plantation of Ulster had on geopolitics, but I don't think it was huge!
Besides, expulsions are a bit of a trump card.
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2022, 09:29:34 AM
Since 1945 the rule of law globally has been based on the concept of the permanence of borders. Germany did not claim East Prissia in 1991 . Putin is wasting his time.
Someone better tell the Israelis that.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63160354
Quote from: johnnycool on October 03, 2022, 09:11:08 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2022, 09:29:34 AM
Since 1945 the rule of law globally has been based on the concept of the permanence of borders. Germany did not claim East Prissia in 1991 . Putin is wasting his time.
Someone better tell the Israelis that.
The Israelis have a Holocaust card but now they are running apartheid. Whenever neoliberalism collapses so will a lot of Jewish wealth. Israel might find itself on a shaky scraw then.
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2022, 04:17:58 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 03, 2022, 09:11:08 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2022, 09:29:34 AM
Since 1945 the rule of law globally has been based on the concept of the permanence of borders. Germany did not claim East Prissia in 1991 . Putin is wasting his time.
Someone better tell the Israelis that.
The Israelis have a Holocaust card but now they are running apartheid. Whenever neoliberalism collapses so will a lot of Jewish wealth. Israel might find itself on a shaky scraw then.
Do you have any images to support this assertion, perhaps a cartoon of someone with a hooked nose hoarding coins?
I opened up Twitter this morning and Ewan MacKenna was seething. Always a good pointer that Ukraine has had a good outcome and Russia a setback.
"Blast causes only Crimea-Russia road bridge to collapse"
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-63183783
Multiple Ukrainian cities under missile attack this morning.
Quote from: Eire90 on October 10, 2022, 08:20:56 AM
Multiple Ukrainian cities under missile attack this morning.
Should be a surprise to absolutely no one, poking the bear in Crimea was always going to get this reaction. Was reading yesterday the new General in charge just bombed Syrian infrastructure off the map.
These attacks are mostly for the Russian domestic audience. They have zero military and strategic value, unlike the Kerch bridge bombing. Horrible yes, but the war equivalent of a toddler throwing a tantrum because they can't get what they want. The Ukranians would have known this was coming.
Quote from: HiMucker on October 10, 2022, 09:34:00 AM
These attacks are mostly for the Russian domestic audience. They have zero military and strategic value, unlike the Kerch bridge bombing. Horrible yes, but the war equivalent of a toddler throwing a tantrum because they can't get what they want. The Ukranians would have known this was coming.
also these attacks are lazy in a sense.Te Ukrainians have been carefully targetting the likes of Crimean airfields and the bridge, these actions do actually degrade the Russian capacity. The Russians just blow up an apartment block by aiming generally at an urban area, which doesn't really degrade Ukrainian military capacity and if anything it steels the resolve of the Ukrainians to fight on.
However, it does not say much the Russian domestic audience that they are impressed by blowing up other civilians who they claim should be in their family.
I think the Russians hit mainly bridges, government buildings (inc. SBU HQ), power networks, railways, etc.
Anyway, Irish nationalists also justified hitting fellow-Irishmen back a few decades ago, did they not? So, nothing unique there.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2022, 06:34:17 PM
I think the Russians hit mainly bridges, government buildings (inc. SBU HQ), power networks, railways, etc.
Anyway, Irish nationalists also justified hitting fellow-Irishmen back a few decades ago, did they not? So, nothing unique there.
It is not fellow Russians they are hitting Comrade.
How the liberators of Kupyansk were greeted by the long suffering natives.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1579191901567451138 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1579191901567451138)
Quote from: Main Street on October 10, 2022, 10:50:05 PM
How the liberators of Kupyansk were greeted by the long suffering natives.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1579191901567451138 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1579191901567451138)
There was another clip where a farmer was giving each Ukrainian jeep a bag of vegetables, you do what you can!
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2022, 06:34:17 PM
I think the Russians hit mainly bridges, government buildings (inc. SBU HQ), power networks, railways, etc.
Anyway, Irish nationalists also justified hitting fellow-Irishmen back a few decades ago, did they not? So, nothing unique there.
Think better, or just another useful idiot.
Quote from: Main Street on October 11, 2022, 12:30:49 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2022, 06:34:17 PM
I think the Russians hit mainly bridges, government buildings (inc. SBU HQ), power networks, railways, etc.
Anyway, Irish nationalists also justified hitting fellow-Irishmen back a few decades ago, did they not? So, nothing unique there.
Think better, or just another useful idiot.
Honestly? I think the useful idiots are those peddling the mainstream narrative. Amazing how gullible some people are.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2022, 06:34:17 PM
I think the Russians hit mainly bridges, government buildings (inc. SBU HQ), power networks, railways, etc.
Anyway, Irish nationalists also justified hitting fellow-Irishmen back a few decades ago, did they not? So, nothing unique there.
One of the goals of the Russians is the destruction of the Ukranian economy. Cromwell had a similar strategy in Irelandm
Ah right burdizzo.
So Ukraine invaded Russia then ::)
Or maybe the Ukraine Government are blowing up their own cities, apartment blocks etc?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2022, 08:43:21 AM
Ah right burdizzo.
So Ukraine invaded Russia then ::)
Or maybe the Ukraine Government are blowing up their own cities, apartment blocks etc?
Yeah, I really said that. Back to your playpen, little boy.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 11, 2022, 07:19:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 11, 2022, 12:30:49 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2022, 06:34:17 PM
I think the Russians hit mainly bridges, government buildings (inc. SBU HQ), power networks, railways, etc.
Anyway, Irish nationalists also justified hitting fellow-Irishmen back a few decades ago, did they not? So, nothing unique there.
Think better, or just another useful idiot.
Honestly? I think the useful idiots are those peddling the mainstream narrative. Amazing how gullible some people are.
"The Mainstream narrative"
You obviously can see the full picture better than the rest of us "sheeple"
Laois Mick Wallace
Quote from: clonadmad on October 11, 2022, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 11, 2022, 07:19:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 11, 2022, 12:30:49 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2022, 06:34:17 PM
I think the Russians hit mainly bridges, government buildings (inc. SBU HQ), power networks, railways, etc.
Anyway, Irish nationalists also justified hitting fellow-Irishmen back a few decades ago, did they not? So, nothing unique there.
Think better, or just another useful idiot.
Honestly? I think the useful idiots are those peddling the mainstream narrative. Amazing how gullible some people are.
"The Mainstream narrative"
You obviously can see the full picture better than the rest of us "sheeple"
Laois Mick Wallace
Nah - Mick Wallace is a fool.
By the way, I don't claim to see the full picture, at all. However, what most people gladly lap up every day is so slanted, it's not funny. And that applies to more than just Ukraine, as well.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 11, 2022, 10:31:45 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 11, 2022, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 11, 2022, 07:19:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 11, 2022, 12:30:49 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2022, 06:34:17 PM
I think the Russians hit mainly bridges, government buildings (inc. SBU HQ), power networks, railways, etc.
Anyway, Irish nationalists also justified hitting fellow-Irishmen back a few decades ago, did they not? So, nothing unique there.
Think better, or just another useful idiot.
Honestly? I think the useful idiots are those peddling the mainstream narrative. Amazing how gullible some people are.
"The Mainstream narrative"
You obviously can see the full picture better than the rest of us "sheeple"
Laois Mick Wallace
Nah - Mick Wallace is a fool.
By the way, I don't claim to see the full picture, at all. However, what most people gladly lap up every day is so slanted, it's not funny. And that applies to more than just Ukraine, as well.
no point giving any counter points on this thread... and don't even try and point out all the hypocrisy of europe/US it doesn't matter... nato never bombed anyone into the stone age, Iraq never happened, Yemen, afganistan, Palestine don't exist... suicide bombs are now a good thing..
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2022, 10:44:33 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 11, 2022, 10:31:45 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 11, 2022, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 11, 2022, 07:19:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 11, 2022, 12:30:49 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2022, 06:34:17 PM
I think the Russians hit mainly bridges, government buildings (inc. SBU HQ), power networks, railways, etc.
Anyway, Irish nationalists also justified hitting fellow-Irishmen back a few decades ago, did they not? So, nothing unique there.
Think better, or just another useful idiot.
Honestly? I think the useful idiots are those peddling the mainstream narrative. Amazing how gullible some people are.
"The Mainstream narrative"
You obviously can see the full picture better than the rest of us "sheeple"
Laois Mick Wallace
Nah - Mick Wallace is a fool.
By the way, I don't claim to see the full picture, at all. However, what most people gladly lap up every day is so slanted, it's not funny. And that applies to more than just Ukraine, as well.
no point giving any counter points on this thread... and don't even try and point out all the hypocrisy of europe/US it doesn't matter... nato never bombed anyone into the stone age, Iraq never happened, Yemen, afganistan, Palestine don't exist... suicide bombs are now a good thing..
NATO and the US are a shower of bastards. Russia are too.
Its a good thing we don't have a say in things from a global power base... We don't even like our own never mind other countries!
The Russians haven't the resources to carry on. If they fired missiles at the rate they did yesterday then they would be out of stock in a month and they cannot make new ones at an appropriate rate. They killed a few harmless civilians, but did little damage to Ukraine's military capacity and they ensured that the Germans sent anti aircraft guns more quickly than they would otherwise have done.
Some of the Russian troops that are surrendering to the Ukrainians were only conscripted 11 days ago and had one day's training, while others were given the choice of going to the front or to jail for non violent crimes.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2022, 01:17:20 PM
The Russians haven't the resources to carry on. If they fired missiles at the rate they did yesterday then they would be out of stock in a month and they cannot make new ones at an appropriate rate. They killed a few harmless civilians, but did little damage to Ukraine's military capacity and they ensured that the Germans sent anti aircraft guns more quickly than they would otherwise have done.
Some of the Russian troops that are surrendering to the Ukrainians were only conscripted 11 days ago and had one day's training, while others were given the choice of going to the front or to jail for non violent crimes.
The Russians expected a quick war. This didn't happen.
Russia has a shit for brains army, but blame Nato for its own failures ;D
The Ukraine Army beat the crap out of the supposedly crack 431 parachute regiment at that airfield outside Kiev in February. For the first time ever that 'elite' 431 were absent from the much vaunted Moscow parade. Where is that regiment now, nobody knows. The next to be vanquished was the elite 451 Kremlin Tank Guard, battered in Buchu and later again later in the Kherson offensive.
Russia can only terrorise, they are militarily deficient in tactics, strategy and equipment. They have a military thoroughly riddled with corruption, a command structure riddled with corruption.
The shit for brains Russian Army have only one offensive tactic, WW1 mindless artillery bombing and then send in the cannon fodder conscripts. The Kremlin doesn't give a damn for these conscripts, no kit, no training, no pay and most grievously no Lada post mortem. How this lying sack of a shit regime somehow manages to have supporters in Ireland is beyond me. However I do recall there was an Irish branch of the Albanian communist party( all praise Enver Hoxha). As to Mick, Clare and Ming - cadres with no scruples, no rationality, no compassion, but most probably a healthy Kremlin supplemented bank account (somewhere), with a flush balance not seen since the days of Marxist Leninist Official Sinn Fein - the Workers Party and a man called Prionsias. A political party which magically dissipated from the stage when the USSR was dissolved.
That Russia will be thoroughly defeated on the battlefield is only a matter of time, it's what happens after that defeat is the unknown.
Mick, Claire, the Pope want peace, you want more war and they are the ones with no compassion!!!
Should we pump billions of funds and arms to the Palestinians, to yeman.. Why haven't we? or are we (europe) still just 'concerned' and calling for 'restraint and deescalation'..
irsp tankie types who claim to be irish patriots would probably welcome a russian invasion of ireland.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2022, 08:51:23 AM
Mick, Claire, want peace
On what terms?
A 2022 version of Munich 1938?
First they came for Ukraine......
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2022, 10:16:17 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2022, 08:51:23 AM
Mick, Claire, want peace
On what terms?
A 2022 version of Munich 1938?
First they came for Ukraine......
On what terms?? You do know there were very generous terms on offer to Ukraine right at the start of all this, terms that didn't involve the ceding of territory? And that it was NATO - or more specifically, Boris Johnson - who insisted Ukraine reject them, and fight? (And, by the way, the British are supposed to have been the ones 'helping' with the Crimean bridge bombing. Which also indiscriminately killed innocent civilians?)
Anyway, as I said before here, it 'amazes' me how the EU and Britain are happy to pump a heap of money, equipment, expertise, and more into a blood and soil nationalist struggle, when they'd decry and suppress such sentiments at home. But, obviously, Ukraine has a lot of resources we want, so normal rules are suspended.
And, no - there's NO evidence that Putin wants to "reconquer" the old Eastern Bloc areas, and such scaremongering is only a weak justification for keeping the war going. Personally, I think it's appalling that we are happy to see Ukrainians slaughtered fighting Russia on behalf of NATO - and, believe me, they are the ones getting slaughtered, no matter what gains they are making at the moment, temporary, or otherwise.
You might link a few respectable media articles to those "generous terms that didn't involve ceding territory".
I note you still didn't condemn or criticise the invasion of a sovereign Country by Putin's Russia.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2022, 11:32:44 AM
You might link a few respectable media articles to those "generous terms that didn't involve ceding territory".
I note you still didn't condemn or criticise the invasion of a sovereign Country by Putin's Russia.
What do call 'respectable'? Nearly all western media sources are agenda-driven and full of crap. Don't get me wrong - it's the same with Russia and their media. I also am well aware that Putin is not our friend, either, and that he's also an opportunist with an agenda. You know, it's basically two imperialistic power-blocs clashing, and Ukraine are the ones caught in the middle. All I'm saying is that there was an opportunity for a de-escalation, and no one took it. And, apparently, still no one takes it.
As for condemning Russia - who cares if I do or not? Do you condemn the shelling of Donetsk by Ukrainian forces from 2014, or the western-backed coup, or NATO's expansionist tendencies, or blah de blah? Who cares if you do or not. We're (presumably) nobodies. But I will say - just because the west hides its lies better than Russia, it doesn't mean they're any the less malevolent.
Pavel Gubarev, Russia's "DPR" figure in Donetsk, states their intent towards Ukrainians: "We aren't coming to kill you, but to convince you. But if you don't want to be convinced, we'll kill you. We'll kill as many as we have to: 1 million, 5 million, or exterminate all of you."
Yes indeed ::)
Would that be part of Burdy's "generous terms" ::)
The Kremlin (aka that esteemed anti-nazi & anti-fascist state ::))has added Meta, the company that owns Facebook and Instagram, to a list of terrorist and extremist organisations on Oct.11'.
'Also undetermined is whether WhatsApp is covered by the designation. The most widely used messaging app in Russia would be banned, effectively cutting off the population from the external world.' 'Russia has imposed restrictions on Twitter.'
'Russian opposition parties are among the additional organisations on the list.'
https://www.kyivpost.com/russia/russia-lists-meta-as-extremist-terrorist.html (https://www.kyivpost.com/russia/russia-lists-meta-as-extremist-terrorist.html)
In other news
Kyiv region's residents reported that the Russian occupiers had mined a beehive but the bees saved the people. After opening the hive's lid, there was no explosion, because in six months the bees filled the igniters with honey and the pins did not pop out.
(https://i.redd.it/m8fs7f1mpct91.jpg)
I wonder the age of some posters on here, trying to portray Russia as hard done by.A nation with a history of been run by dictator, I remember the 80's, the iron curtain, , Russia has bullied smaller nations as much as possible since the communists took over after WW1. They had no problem invading Finland, no problem invading Poland, They got caught by the Nazis by been best bed buddys with them. Great Britain went to war with Germany for invading Poland yet half it was took over by Russia and they were, allies with them. Ask any Polish of a certain age, they all feared Russia invading again, All the smaller countries in the region wanted to join Nato out of fear. These smaller countries are no benefit to Nato (outside of the big 4) but refusal to let a country join Nato would be seen as a weakness by Russia.
300 years of attempted extermination of Ukrainian culture
https://nitter.it/NatallkaUKR/status/1579539045033865217#m (https://nitter.it/NatallkaUKR/status/1579539045033865217#m)
(https://nitter.it/pic/enc/bWVkaWEvRmV1bVdsa1dBQUUySWU5LmpwZz9uYW1lPXNtYWxs)
(https://nitter.it/pic/orig/enc/bWVkaWEvRmV1bVdsbldBQkFSdWZBLmpwZw==)
(https://nitter.it/pic/orig/enc/bWVkaWEvRmV1bVdsbFdBQTgxaGZSLmpwZw==)
Genocide Definition
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
a. Killing members of the group;
b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
1. A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and
2. A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:
◦ Killing members of the group
◦ Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
◦ Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
◦ Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
◦ Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
IN UKRAINE we have
The mental aspect:
Russia has overtly and repeatedly stated their intention to destroy and absorb Ukraine by force.
Russia says there is no Ukrainian state.
Russia says there is no Ukrainian language.
The physical aspect:
Russia by their own admission operates "filtration camps" and has forcible deported around 1+ million Ukrainians to Russia
Russia has forcibly seized and deported Ukrainian children with the intention that they be "raised as Russian not Ukrainian"-or sell to their sex trade
Russia prevents deported Ukrainians from leaving Russia.
The Russians invaded with "kill lists" in hand with the intent of killing significant numbers of Ukrainians for various reasons.
Ukrainians are forced via various means to forfeit their status as Ukrainians and become Russian. Notably Ukrainian citizens are fired from their jobs, cannot receive the government pensions they rely on, cannot receive food assistance. The goal is to pressure Ukrainians to surrender their passport and citizenship through coercive means, and participate in Russian political society instead - for example, by voting in the sham referendums.
Ukrainians who oppose the policy of forced Russianization are tortured and murdered.
Ukrainian men in the captured territories who previously served in the armed forces are tortured and murdered.
Ukrainian citizens who served in local or regional governments who will not collaborate are tortured and murdered.
Ukrainian citizens in general are subject to torture rape and murder at whim in revenge attacks by Russian soldiers as a result of losses to the Ukrainian Army.
Ukrainian citizens near the front are killed en masse via indiscriminate artillery fire. tens of thousands were killed in Mariupol.
Ukrainian citizens behind the front line are killed in frequent attacks against nonmilitary targets which are purely intended to kill civilians.
Within living memory (1920s-30s) the USSR murdered somewhere around 7 million Ukrainians via forced famine, showing that there is an historical desire within Russia to literally exterminate the Ukrainian population.
;D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fe4a4ShXoAAvE3G?format=jpg&name=900x900)
suicide bombings en vogue now.
I wouldn't be holding up Meta as anything good . Google meta and palestine and the recent report... Also aren't the west censoring Russia media, seems if its on our terms we are happy like suicide bombings..
(https://i.ibb.co/Pg84J4d/667a65c9a7291b29-png-2561252.jpg)
Quote from: Main Street on October 13, 2022, 01:30:41 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/Pg84J4d/667a65c9a7291b29-png-2561252.jpg)
What's his view on the girls singing up the RA?
The Kremlin is already amplifying the genocidal rhetoric against Ukraine, in response to being labelled a terrorist state.
https://www.understandingwar.org/ (https://www.understandingwar.org/)
Oct 12, 2022 - Press ISW
Russia has seemingly intensified its information operation to falsely portray Ukraine as a terrorist state, likely to set information conditions to counter efforts to designate Russia as a terrorist state. Several Russian sources made unverified claims that Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) officers detained Ukrainian citizens for allegedly planning "terrorist attacks" in Sverdlovsk, Moscow, and Bryansk oblasts on October 12.
Russian milbloggers relatedly amplified rhetoric accusing Ukraine of being a terrorist state and calling for Russian authorities to enhance "counterintelligence" procedures and formally designate Ukraine as a terrorist state.
Claims of preparations for alleged and subversive Ukrainian activity in Russia align with a wider attempt to set information conditions to respond to Ukrainian attempts to formally designate Russia a terrorist state, especially in the wake of recent massive attacks on critical Ukrainian infrastructure and residential areas. The Russian information space may also be setting conditions to justify further massive strikes on Ukrainian rear areas; although, as ISW has previously assessed, these tactics are part of the Russian way of war and will likely be utilized regardless of informational conditions. Russian authorities may also be setting conditions for false-flag attacks against Russia framed as Ukrainian-perpetrated acts of terrorism.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2022, 01:39:22 PM
What's his view on the girls singing up the RA?
Hmmmm. stalking and attempted thread hijacking, all in the one post.
That's 2 yellow cards ref !!
Finally the Russia Army hit a military target in Ukraine, in Lviv region, a Kalibr missile hit a semi-abandoned military vehicles storage. Nobody was hurt.
Ukraine successfully hit an ammo depot in Belgorod, 50km inside actual sacred mother Russia.
https://twitter.com/WarInUkraineYet/status/1580596600165892105?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/WarInUkraineYet/status/1580596600165892105?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Nuclear armageddon or just another Kremlin sabre rattling.
Harvest of Despair (Holodomor) The 1933 Ukraine famine documentary,
https://www.bitchute.com/video/4FYb5Yz2fyjF/ (https://www.bitchute.com/video/4FYb5Yz2fyjF/)
7-12 m Ukrainians starved to death in the largest genocide by famine in world history.
As per Kremlin's professional useful idiot dogma, Mick, Clare and Ming deny this was a deliberate genocide act against Ukraine, just as they deny the infamous Stalin Gulags, instead claiming them to be idyllic educational work camps.
Yemen facing 'outright catastrophe' over rising hunger, warn UN humanitarians.... Happening right now..... The current level of hunger in Yemen is indeed unprecedented. Despite ongoing humanitarian assistance, 17.4 million Yemenis are food insecure and in need of assistance to ward off the risk of famine and this number is set to rise to 19 million by December 2022. war is great... 7 years!
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Yeah, this is only for NATO propaganda.
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them.
You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them.
You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.
They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 08:40:08 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them.
You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.
They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...
So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 09:29:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 08:40:08 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them.
You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.
They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...
So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.
they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions... only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.
I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:07:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 09:29:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 08:40:08 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them.
You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.
They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...
So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.
they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions... only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.
I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...
They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 10:18:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:07:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 09:29:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 08:40:08 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them.
You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.
They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...
So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.
they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions... only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.
I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...
They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?
why are thye inconsistent and why do we accept it and go along with it..
I dont have the answer to that question but don't see more war as the best outcome.. that's a matter for Russia ukraine and mediators...the west is just pumping in enough funds and arms to continue conflict...
a recent Amendment in the EuropeanParliament calling for exploring all potential avenues for Peace in Ukraine was defeated by 436 votes to 118. Peace does not and should not mean Ukraine loses... warmongers
Google Ukraine resistence and then palestinian resistence... see the difference in the first results...
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:26:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 10:18:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:07:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 09:29:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 08:40:08 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them.
You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.
They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...
So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.
they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions... only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.
I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...
They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?
why are thye inconsistent and why do we accept it and go along with it..
I dont have the answer to that question but don't see more war as the best outcome.. that's a matter for Russia ukraine and mediators...the west is just pumping in enough funds and arms to continue conflict...
a recent Amendment in the EuropeanParliament calling for exploring all potential avenues for Peace in Ukraine was defeated by 436 votes to 118. Peace does not and should not mean Ukraine loses... warmongers
Google Ukraine resistence and then palestinian resistence... see the difference in the first results...
Agree with a lot of what you both are saying. At the end of the day the "west" (america) is looking out for itself and it's interests- the people in charge don't give a shite about the ordinary Ukranian/Syrian/Palestinian dying in the street. Ukraine is an opportunity to bloody Russias nose so of course the US are going to do what they can without engaging in full scale war. The Saudi's are buddies with the US and UK etc so can kill the people of Yemen as they please, same with Israel and Palestine.
It's feck all to do with right and wrong, however in this case Ukraine are firmly in the right and should fight until the last with Russia- not one inch of ground should be given up.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/exclusive-russia-is-prepared-quit-black-sea-grains-deal-writes-un-with-demands-2022-10-13/
Typical Kremlin stunt, signs an internationally brokered deal and the next month threatens to break the deal, cannot be trusted. " Russia is prepared to quit Black Sea grains deal, writes to UN with demands"
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 10:34:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:26:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 10:18:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:07:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 09:29:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 08:40:08 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them.
You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.
They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...
So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.
they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions... only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.
I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...
They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?
why are thye inconsistent and why do we accept it and go along with it..
I dont have the answer to that question but don't see more war as the best outcome.. that's a matter for Russia ukraine and mediators...the west is just pumping in enough funds and arms to continue conflict...
a recent Amendment in the EuropeanParliament calling for exploring all potential avenues for Peace in Ukraine was defeated by 436 votes to 118. Peace does not and should not mean Ukraine loses... warmongers
Google Ukraine resistence and then palestinian resistence... see the difference in the first results...
Agree with a lot of what you both are saying. At the end of the day the "west" (america) is looking out for itself and it's interests- the people in charge don't give a shite about the ordinary Ukranian/Syrian/Palestinian dying in the street. Ukraine is an opportunity to bloody Russias nose so of course the US are going to do what they can without engaging in full scale war. The Saudi's are buddies with the US and UK etc so can kill the people of Yemen as they please, same with Israel and Palestine.
It's feck all to do with right and wrong, however in this case Ukraine are firmly in the right and should fight until the last with Russia- not one inch of ground should be given up.
I'd agree with a lot of this.
America only ever considers its own interests and in many cases across the globe I can see why they are considered as the agressor and a terrorist state.
UK not far behind in saying that.
But, is the course of action in Ukraine right? I believe it is. What is the alternative? You can't negotiate with and agressor who refuses to negotiate or cede any ground let alone pull out of ground they have illegally taken.
The only option is to fight back.
Ukraine on it's own can't do it, and if one NATO country gets involved directly it opens the door to a World War where Nuclear weapons are at play. So the next best option is to support Ukraine with weapons and finance. There is no good solution here.....only a least worst solution.
Palestine is another story. Isreal, as a state, should in my opinion be considered a terrorist state with how they treat palestinians. The comparison with Nazism isnt far wrong, yet the US will not step in to support the Palestinians as poitically on US soil there is too large of an Isreali lobby to go against. No-one else wants to square up to a US/Isreali pact so the Palestinians are left to fend for themselves with nowhere near enough finance, weaponry, international support. I've no idea what can be done to resolve that, but it's fundamentally wrong.
Spot on tbrick.
The school of thought by some is this is actually an action by Biden / America to essentially get rid of Putin. (That is not me saying that I agree with what is being said but I try to read more than one side to these stories).
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2022, 11:04:47 AM
The school of thought by some is this is actually an action by Biden / America to essentially get rid of Putin. (That is not me saying that I agree with what is being said but I try to read more than one side to these stories).
That's where it will likely end up whether that was the intention or not. Russia did start this though.
Yeah I would share that view. There is a bit in what PHP says here too. It's a bit like the Madeline McCann disappearance for me. This is obviously a horrible situation , just like that, but there feels like a disproportionate slant towards this war over others like her disappearance over others for whatever reason.
I still agree they need support. Also there would be the worry if Putin destroys Ukraine where / when does he stop.
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 14, 2022, 10:47:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 10:34:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:26:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 10:18:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:07:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 09:29:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 08:40:08 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them.
You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.
They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...
So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.
they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions... only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.
I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...
They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?
why are thye inconsistent and why do we accept it and go along with it..
I dont have the answer to that question but don't see more war as the best outcome.. that's a matter for Russia ukraine and mediators...the west is just pumping in enough funds and arms to continue conflict...
a recent Amendment in the EuropeanParliament calling for exploring all potential avenues for Peace in Ukraine was defeated by 436 votes to 118. Peace does not and should not mean Ukraine loses... warmongers
Google Ukraine resistence and then palestinian resistence... see the difference in the first results...
Agree with a lot of what you both are saying. At the end of the day the "west" (america) is looking out for itself and it's interests- the people in charge don't give a shite about the ordinary Ukranian/Syrian/Palestinian dying in the street. Ukraine is an opportunity to bloody Russias nose so of course the US are going to do what they can without engaging in full scale war. The Saudi's are buddies with the US and UK etc so can kill the people of Yemen as they please, same with Israel and Palestine.
It's feck all to do with right and wrong, however in this case Ukraine are firmly in the right and should fight until the last with Russia- not one inch of ground should be given up.
I'd agree with a lot of this.
America only ever considers its own interests and in many cases across the globe I can see why they are considered as the agressor and a terrorist state.
UK not far behind in saying that.
But, is the course of action in Ukraine right? I believe it is. What is the alternative? You can't negotiate with and agressor who refuses to negotiate or cede any ground let alone pull out of ground they have illegally taken.
The only option is to fight back.
Ukraine on it's own can't do it, and if one NATO country gets involved directly it opens the door to a World War where Nuclear weapons are at play. So the next best option is to support Ukraine with weapons and finance. There is no good solution here.....only a least worst solution.
Palestine is another story. Isreal, as a state, should in my opinion be considered a terrorist state with how they treat palestinians. The comparison with Nazism isnt far wrong, yet the US will not step in to support the Palestinians as poitically on US soil there is too large of an Isreali lobby to go against. No-one else wants to square up to a US/Isreali pact so the Palestinians are left to fend for themselves with nowhere near enough finance, weaponry, international support. I've no idea what can be done to resolve that, but it's fundamentally wrong.
has anyone any concerns for the civilians in the donbass since 2014? thinking the start of the conflict was in February is misguided... this has being brewing for a while and again efforts at peace were not enough...
there is no reason not to talk peace or have negotiations. you or i have no clue what russia will or wont accept... if you dont want peace you 100% won't achieve peace..While you say Russia doesn't want it, it very clear the US and Europe don't want it either. And just to be clear again that doesn't mean Russia winning or Ukraine losing.
NATO is in Ukraine, has been in Ukraine and will continue in Ukraine, NATO are a major problem in resolution. to be clear, not providing 100% or near that of what it is capable of.
as for palestine, what's Europe's excuse?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:26:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 10:18:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:07:24 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 09:29:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 08:40:08 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
Failed attempt to hijack thread.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the west and its war monger supporters... this war is highlighting this hypocrisy very clearly...
keep up the cheerleading...
in fairness (for once) the West aren't attacking innocent civillians nor are they brainwashing young men to go die in a war that has nothing to do with them.
You can condemn Russia in this war while also condemn western actions in the many conflicts going back years and years.
They have prolonged the war in which many Ukrainians are dying (due to Russian invasion) and suffering while they dripfeed weapons and funds...The reaction is very different in Ukraine than other conflicts...
So you don't think they should have supported an aggressive land grab against international borders? You believe there no be no intervention ever? I'm genuinely keen to hear if that's what you believe.
they accept land grabs elsewhere... Where is Palestines HIMARs etc. where are Saudis sanctions... only concerns for the people of palestine and Yemen etc.
I believe more/some efforts should have been made to prevent and end the war once it started. There was 8 years of conflict in the region prior to the Russian invasion...
They do. And I'd agree they are inconsistent. But that in itself doesn't make the action of supporting Ukraine wrong imo.
What actions could have been taken to end the war peacefully once the Russias had crossed the border that didn't include a roll over to Russian demands?
why are thye inconsistent and why do we accept it and go along with it..
I dont have the answer to that question but don't see more war as the best outcome.. that's a matter for Russia ukraine and mediators...the west is just pumping in enough funds and arms to continue conflict...
a recent Amendment in the EuropeanParliament calling for exploring all potential avenues for Peace in Ukraine was defeated by 436 votes to 118. Peace does not and should not mean Ukraine loses... warmongers
Google Ukraine resistence and then palestinian resistence... see the difference in the first results...
Open a thread on The West's inconsistency. You'd prob find that most agree with you. But that doesn't mean their intervention was wrong this time.
With regards to not having the answer, imo was little option for the Ukraine to achieve peace without ceding sovereign territory. And I would not expect them to agree to this. The sham referendums in the taken areas are just that, a complete sham. Once Russian had mobilised it was a decision for the west to either support Ukraine or let Russian annex them completely and set up a puppet state for themselves. Those were the two options. Without the intervention, the Ukraine would not have withstood the Russian Army. That's why attempts for peace will struggle. Trying to negotiate peace at that stage with a successful Russian invasion would have been impossible. Russia would have dictated the terms.
no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.
Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.
More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 12:09:34 PM
no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.
Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.
More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.
I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 12:09:34 PM
no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.
Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.
More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.
I don't disagree that more could have been done. But your dealing with two nations with very entrenched national views. Peace talks would not have been easy.
But Russian's invasion passed a line in the sand. Once they did that, it escalated events. And the west were quite right to intervene at that stage.
If you ask the Ukraines are they thankful for this intervention I believe you would get a resounding yes.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 12:19:41 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 12:09:34 PM
no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.
Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.
More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.
I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.
No, it wasn't, and it's fair enough for people not to be aware because of that. However, to be jumping up and down blaming Russia for everything when you're unaware of the background is a bit foolish. You know, these things always happen for a reason, and it wasn't all Russia's doing, either - no matter how much western media sources would like you to believe it was. Furthermore, the conflict has evolved and escalated, as have each sides' 'war aims' - and that's in large part due to the west's heavy-handed meddling. In my opinion.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2022, 12:48:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 12:19:41 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 12:09:34 PM
no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.
Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.
More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.
I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.
No, it wasn't, and it's fair enough for people not to be aware because of that. However, to be jumping up and down blaming Russia for everything when you're unaware of the background is a bit foolish. You know, these things always happen for a reason, and it wasn't all Russia's doing, either - no matter how much western media sources would like you to believe it was. Furthermore, the conflict has evolved and escalated, as have each sides' 'war aims' - and that's in large part due to the west's heavy-handed meddling. In my opinion.
The west heavy handed intervention only came about after the Russian invasion. I'd call that fairly heavy handed meddling by the Russians to begin with. So would you not attribute more to their actions than the west's?
Quote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2022, 12:48:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 12:19:41 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 12:09:34 PM
no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.
Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.
More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.
I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.
No, it wasn't, and it's fair enough for people not to be aware because of that. However, to be jumping up and down blaming Russia for everything when you're unaware of the background is a bit foolish. You know, these things always happen for a reason, and it wasn't all Russia's doing, either - no matter how much western media sources would like you to believe it was. Furthermore, the conflict has evolved and escalated, as have each sides' 'war aims' - and that's in large part due to the west's heavy-handed meddling. In my opinion.
Will you quit with this bullshit, we are not complete eejits here (bar one or two). "it wasn't all Russia's doing", it never is, but we all know where the balance lies. I might call my neighbour a bollix and he might come and burn my house and kill my family, at some level we are both at fault but that hardly changes the blame.
Ukraine has no war aim other than to remove the invaders from its territory, they are not planning to invade Moscow.
Well, you could go back to 2014 with all this, and the western-backed coup then. And what really were their intentions that time? Of course, the invasion was a bit like cracking a nut w/ a sledge-hammer, but as I said earlier in this thread, I believe there was a Turkish-brokered peace-deal on the table very soon afterwards which would have delivered Ukrainian neutrality, and greater "self-rule" for the eastern areas. There was no talk of annexation of these areas (which, in fact, was only done so that Russia could send conscripts there), and no talk of regime change. I understand - from listening to various 'neutral' podcasts - that Zelensky was about to accept this, only the west (and Johnson in particular) talked him out of it with promises of arms, etc. Really, the west was and is pretty gung-ho about all this - very easy when it's not your own population paying in blood.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2022, 12:57:58 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2022, 12:48:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 12:19:41 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 12:09:34 PM
no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.
Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.
More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.
I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.
No, it wasn't, and it's fair enough for people not to be aware because of that. However, to be jumping up and down blaming Russia for everything when you're unaware of the background is a bit foolish. You know, these things always happen for a reason, and it wasn't all Russia's doing, either - no matter how much western media sources would like you to believe it was. Furthermore, the conflict has evolved and escalated, as have each sides' 'war aims' - and that's in large part due to the west's heavy-handed meddling. In my opinion.
Will you quit with this bullshit, we are not complete eejits here (bar one or two). "it wasn't all Russia's doing", it never is, but we all know where the balance lies. I might call my neighbour a bollix and he might come and burn my house and kill my family, at some level we are both at fault but that hardly changes the blame.
Ukraine has no war aim other than to remove the invaders from its territory, they are not planning to invade Moscow.
I was referring more to the west's war aims, since I consider Ukraine no more than a proxy. Besides, Zelensky is now saying he wants Putin gone - which he wasn't before.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2022, 12:48:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2022, 12:19:41 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 12:09:34 PM
no need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.
Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.
More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.
I'm not sure about most people on here but I know very very little about this. Ukraine wasn't in the news at all.
No, it wasn't, and it's fair enough for people not to be aware because of that. However, to be jumping up and down blaming Russia for everything when you're unaware of the background is a bit foolish. You know, these things always happen for a reason, and it wasn't all Russia's doing, either - no matter how much western media sources would like you to believe it was. Furthermore, the conflict has evolved and escalated, as have each sides' 'war aims' - and that's in large part due to the west's heavy-handed meddling. In my opinion.
Unless Ukraine actually attacked Russian soil, I think you have to lay the majority of the blame for the current conflict at Russias door. They crossed into Ukranian territory and the Ukranians should not stop fighting until they've been chased right back across the border. Now whether the West should be taking sides or meddling is another matter.
Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.
https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:00:00 PM
Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.
https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841
should that not have a warning
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 02:30:11 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:00:00 PM
Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.
https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841
should that not have a warning
A warning for idiots, perhaps.
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 04:42:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 02:30:11 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:00:00 PM
Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.
https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841
should that not have a warning
A warning for idiots, perhaps.
mis information warning..
There's a Time magazine cover story on Ukraine's Commander in chief of the armed forces, General Valeriy Zaluzhny. https://time.com/6216213/ukraine-military-valeriy-zaluzhny/
He's the single greatest factor in the transformation of the Armed forces, from a soviet era corrupt clodlike army to a modern day innovative and adaptable army.
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 04:54:16 PM
There's a Time magazine cover story on Ukraine's Commander in chief of the armed forces, General Valeriy Zaluzhny. https://time.com/6216213/ukraine-military-valeriy-zaluzhny/
He's the single greatest factor in the transformation of the Armed forces, from a soviet era corrupt clodlike army to a modern day innovative and adaptable army.
is that the guy with the swastika on his braclet..
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 04:42:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 02:30:11 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:00:00 PM
Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.
https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841
should that not have a warningQuote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2022, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 04:42:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 02:30:11 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:00:00 PM
Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.
https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841
should that not have a warning
A warning for idiots, perhaps.
mis information warning..
He probably believes it's genuine!
A warning for idiots, perhaps.
mis information warning..
Only a useful idiot could fail to spot the spoof subtitles. You guys are are the dregs ;D
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 04:59:06 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 04:42:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 02:30:11 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:00:00 PM
Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.
https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841
should that not have a warningQuote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2022, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 04:42:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 02:30:11 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 02:00:00 PM
Solovyov's Requiem - Laments and thoughts from his soul.
https://twitter.com/R82938886/status/1579591420805283841
should that not have a warning
A warning for idiots, perhaps.
mis information warning..
He probably believes it's genuine!
A warning for idiots, perhaps.
mis information warning..
Only a useful idiot could fail to spot the spoof subtitles. You guys are are the dregs ;D
in a video with subtiltles and in an age where people want fast information and there is little fact checking stating it was satire would be well advised but I suspect either
1. you deliberately wanted to mis inform or
2. you didn't realise it was satire.
hard to tell given your lust for more war and destructuon on this thread.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfCyvsHXoAEthHk?format=jpg&name=small)
Russians destroy a wooden SAM system, should've used a cigarette ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoQ-6agLq6g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoQ-6agLq6g)
People did wonder how long they would get away with it but it appears their time has come. 3 Russian ultra extreme fascists (milbloggers), who were critical of Putin's extreme fascism (a bit milder) have been detained. They went by the online names of Girkin, Greyzone and Wargonzo, Girkin being Igor Girkin military leader of the 'Donetsk People's Republic' (DNR) in 2014, Wargonzo is Military commissar Semyon Pegov.
That's a pity because I enjoyed reading their telegram posts, of course they're screwball fanatics but they knew their military and were scathingly critical of Russian army corruption and their total hapless ineptitude.
https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1580968866460880897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1580968866460880897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Probable fate for the 3 milbloggers
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfC8aE0X0AAYS6p?format=jpg&name=medium)
Russian milblogger Vladlen Tatarsky says that untrained mobilised Russians are using YouTube to teach themselves how to drive tanks and fire mortars (!).
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1581218931368337408 (https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1581218931368337408)
source https://t.me/vladlentatarsky/16629 (https://t.me/vladlentatarsky/16629)
"All the trainers were put into the field and killed/wounded in last 6 months as emergency reinforcements..."
"They did the equivalent of eating their seed corn."
Even among the vast scope of the rape pillage and plunder of Ukraine, some murders committed on the sidelines of the war are just standout special crimes against the higher expressions of cultural humanity.
In Kherson, the Russian occupiers murdered the chief conductor of the Kherson Music and Drama Theater, Yuriy Kerpatenko
He was shot by the Russian military in his own house after the conductor refused to cooperate with the occupiers who had planned to hold a "holiday concert" with the participation of the famous Hileya chamber orchestra. With this concert, the occupiers wanted to show the "restoration of peaceful life" in Kherson. Yuriy Kerpatenko was the chief conductor of the Hileya Chamber Orchestra
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fe92_NxXEAg0WPj?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://images.dailykos.com/images/1123891/large/FeWzkh8WAAElJW7.jpeg?1665863171)
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 10:45:58 PM
People did wonder how long they would get away with it but it appears their time has come. 3 Russian ultra extreme fascists (milbloggers), who were critical of Putin's extreme fascism (a bit milder) have been detained. They went by the online names of Girkin, Greyzone and Wargonzo, Girkin being Igor Girkin military leader of the 'Donetsk People's Republic' (DNR) in 2014, Wargonzo is Military commissar Semyon Pegov.
That's a pity because I enjoyed reading their telegram posts, of course they're screwball fanatics but they knew their military and were scathingly critical of Russian army corruption and their total hapless ineptitude.
https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1580968866460880897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1580968866460880897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
A Bounty has been put on the notorious RU Nationalist Igor Girkin (alive), as news spread he's at the front as battalion commander. Going up by the minute, now it's $50,000. Ukrainians joking that buryats will soon deliver him in a trunk.
The great Igor hunt is on!
https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1581375175987060736
Quote from: Main Street on October 16, 2022, 01:28:59 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2022, 10:45:58 PM
People did wonder how long they would get away with it but it appears their time has come. 3 Russian ultra extreme fascists (milbloggers), who were critical of Putin's extreme fascism (a bit milder) have been detained. They went by the online names of Girkin, Greyzone and Wargonzo, Girkin being Igor Girkin military leader of the 'Donetsk People's Republic' (DNR) in 2014, Wargonzo is Military commissar Semyon Pegov.
That's a pity because I enjoyed reading their telegram posts, of course they're screwball fanatics but they knew their military and were scathingly critical of Russian army corruption and their total hapless ineptitude.
https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1580968866460880897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1580968866460880897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
A Bounty has been put on the notorious RU Nationalist Igor Girkin (alive), as news spread he's at the front as battalion commander. Going up by the minute, now it's $50,000. Ukrainians joking that buryats will soon deliver him in a trunk.
The great Igor hunt is on!
https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1581375175987060736
I'm surprised you are not at the front, given your apparent bloodlust.
Very little about the Russian ships sunk yesterday
Expect another wave of strikes on ukranian civilian infrastructure
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 31, 2022, 12:08:57 AM
Very little about the Russian ships sunk yesterday
Expect another wave of strikes on ukranian civilian infrastructure
Maybe, just maybe, there wasn't actually all that much damage done?!
The Brits are up to the neck in all this. Funny we should all be cheering them on so valiantly.
Civilian infrastructure? Like bridges? Anyway, as you know, civilian infrastructure - like the power grid - is also military infrastructure.
Russians have left the West bank of the Dnieper, it didn't take long in the end.
https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1591025976225697795
Crimea is now in play. 2 hands on the hurl
I'd say that will be the end of Ukrainian advances in the Kherson regon, come back in a year and that dinipro river will likely still be the dividing line. The Russians appear to finally have a General in command who knows what he's doing, while it's no doubt a humiliation for the Russians I reckon they'll be better off tactically for the retreat. No doubt the Kherson residents will be waking up to a bombardment in the not too distant future.
It's a long front. The Ukrainians will Ídentify a soft spot elsewhere
Quote from: bennydorano on November 11, 2022, 10:12:21 PM
I'd say that will be the end of Ukrainian advances in the Kherson regon, come back in a year and that dinipro river will likely still be the dividing line. The Russians appear to finally have a General in command who knows what he's doing, while it's no doubt a humiliation for the Russians I reckon they'll be better off tactically for the retreat. No doubt the Kherson residents will be waking up to a bombardment in the not too distant future.
Can they turn off the water to Crimea now. That's the big question
There'll be some craic in Kherson this weekend.
Ukraine massive, the winters be severe, the weather calfed Hitler and Napolean when nothing else would. . A line be draw here to nxt March/April,. War changed on so many fronts, the day of the tank is gone, artillery a bigger player these days, but air support is what wins wars and long range anti aircraft equipment, required to erase that advantage. In WW2 the massive rivers in Ukraine slowed up the nazis but it hinder any Ukraine advance next year.
Didn't realise how wide that river at kherson is. How the f**k did Russia take it in the first place did the Ukrainians all fall asleep as they filed across the bridge
Didn't blow the bridge as they should have, as they were took unaware, even though America had given them a weeks notice of a possible invasion
Before the war the Ukrainians took the view that Russia would be mad to invade, that they didn't have enough men. Zelenksy did not adopt a provocative stance of mobilising etc.
Russia was mad, or at least their leader was.
This is what liberating a people from the jack boot of fascism looks like.
https://suspilne.media/315548-prapori-obijmi-ta-slozi-ak-hersonci-svatkuut-svobodu-i-zustricaut-ukrainskih-vijskovih/ (https://suspilne.media/315548-prapori-obijmi-ta-slozi-ak-hersonci-svatkuut-svobodu-i-zustricaut-ukrainskih-vijskovih/)
Missile hits town inside Poland couple of miles from border, killing 2 Poles.
Russian mistake, deliberate provocation or American/Western false flag? Who knows
False flag seriously, people read to much into conspiracy theories these days. Obvious Russian missile.
When you hear hooves think horses not zebras. Incompetence 99 times out of 100 and Russia have proven themselves largely incompetent. Could now be used as cover for escalation tho.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 11:11:58 PM
False flag seriously, people read to much into conspiracy theories these days. Obvious Russian missile.
MacKenna says it was the Ukranians so clearly you're wrong...
Quote from: bennydorano on November 15, 2022, 11:28:05 PM
When you hear hooves think horses not zebras. Incompetence 99 times out of 100 and Russia have proven themselves largely incompetent. Could now be used as cover for escalation tho.
Obviously wouldn't surprise me if it was the West but yeah most likely a Russian mistake.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 15, 2022, 11:40:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 15, 2022, 11:28:05 PM
When you hear hooves think horses not zebras. Incompetence 99 times out of 100 and Russia have proven themselves largely incompetent. Could now be used as cover for escalation tho.
Obviously wouldn't surprise me if it was the West but yeah most likely a Russian mistake.
There is no such thing as a Russian mistake, either it was deliberate or totally inept as in firing unguided missiles directly to the vicinity of the Polish border.
Said it was a overshot, they were firing rockets everywhere, got to remember these dumb clowns took down an airliner a few yrs bck.
Adolf is not a happy camper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ex1O-0M35k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ex1O-0M35k)
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 16, 2022, 12:13:45 AM
Said it was a overshot, they were firing rockets everywhere, got to remember these dumb clowns took down an airliner a few yrs bck.
I looked up the town hit by the missile, Przewodów, Poland, and it is approximately 360 west of Kiev.
Nothing but farmland for 10-20 east of missile hit. Closest town is Zhvyrka with a population of 3600.
Next major city is Lviv Oblast about 75 miles away.
Not a mistake.
Turns out it wasn't a Russian missile, it was possibly Ukranian.
Scary the amount of people calling for WW3 last night based on sketchy reports by Western media.
Now watch this story vanish with a poof because it was the "good guys" that did it.
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 06:51:25 AM
Turns out it wasn't a Russian missile, it was possibly Ukranian.
Scary the amount of people calling for WW3 last night based on sketchy reports by Western media.
Now watch this story vanish with a poof because it was the "good guys" that did it.
Sooo deliberate then still? Or an accident
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2022, 11:36:56 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 11:11:58 PM
False flag seriously, people read to much into conspiracy theories these days. Obvious Russian missile.
MacKenna says it was the Ukranians so clearly you're wrong...
Some people really want an escalation.
seems to be a nothingburger apart from the two people that died i dont think anything will happen russia will say a missle missed target and nato will say better not happen again would be mu guess of what will happen.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 16, 2022, 07:55:10 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2022, 11:36:56 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 11:11:58 PM
False flag seriously, people read to much into conspiracy theories these days. Obvious Russian missile.
MacKenna says it was the Ukranians so clearly you're wrong...
Some people really want an escalation.
90% of comments online seem to be mad to blame Russia and for NATO to attack Russia. Must be either suicidal, stupid or psychopaths.
Also, Biden has said it was Ukraine so maybe McKenna was right. Broken clock and all that
LIVE Russia missiles hit Poland LIVE: NATO fears after rockets land in country killing two
Two Russian rockets have landed in a village in eastern Poland leaving two people dead, as the country's top politicians called an emergency meeting over the incident
Latvian Deputy Prime Minister Artis Pabriks said on Twitter that Russia "fired missiles which target not only Ukrainian civilians but also landed on NATO territory in Poland."
The Polish Foreign Ministry said a Russian produced rocket had hit a grain drying facility in the farm, and confirmed they had since summoned the Russian ambassador
Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Reinsalu said, according to BNS newswire: "We are discussing with our allies how to respond to what happened jointly and decisively.
The Associated Press earlier cited a senior US intelligence official as saying the blast was due to Russian missiles crossing into Poland
Wouldn't know what to believe. There's weapons experts online saying the missile is a model used by the Ukrainians. There's news reports saying it was the Russians.
Ukrainian incompetence by the looks of it - I'll take incompetence over engineering an escalation.
There'll be lots of tweets being deleted this morning and not by Ewan for a change. A lot of very dangerous rhetoric being bandied about by normally sensible people - Jennifer Cassidy for one. Anders Aslund another.
Wasn't impressed with the Ukrainian MP on radio earlier, complaining about not getting enough weapons and Nato not doing enough and so on
That's been going on quite a while. Zelensky drops it in a lot.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2022, 08:42:18 AM
Wasn't impressed with the Ukrainian MP on radio earlier, complaining about not getting enough weapons and Nato not doing enough and so on
Love to see where they'd be without it. Not to mention the migrants we're housing
Quote from: grounded on November 16, 2022, 08:13:16 AM
LIVE Russia missiles hit Poland LIVE: NATO fears after rockets land in country killing two
Two Russian rockets have landed in a village in eastern Poland leaving two people dead, as the country's top politicians called an emergency meeting over the incident
Latvian Deputy Prime Minister Artis Pabriks said on Twitter that Russia "fired missiles which target not only Ukrainian civilians but also landed on NATO territory in Poland."
The Polish Foreign Ministry said a Russian produced rocket had hit a grain drying facility in the farm, and confirmed they had since summoned the Russian ambassador
Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Reinsalu said, according to BNS newswire: "We are discussing with our allies how to respond to what happened jointly and decisively.
The Associated Press earlier cited a senior US intelligence official as saying the blast was due to Russian missiles crossing into Poland
The Associated Press have 3 anonymous sources within US intelligence that are saying it was a Ukranian missile.
Where are you getting this article from?
Quote from: burdizzo on November 16, 2022, 07:55:10 AM
Quote from: screenexile on November 15, 2022, 11:36:56 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 11:11:58 PM
False flag seriously, people read to much into conspiracy theories these days. Obvious Russian missile.
MacKenna says it was the Ukranians so clearly you're wrong...
Some people really want an escalation.
Yes and a lot of them are Irish twitter gobshites. They should be first in the line for sign up WW3.
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:03:34 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 16, 2022, 08:13:16 AM
LIVE Russia missiles hit Poland LIVE: NATO fears after rockets land in country killing two
Two Russian rockets have landed in a village in eastern Poland leaving two people dead, as the country's top politicians called an emergency meeting over the incident
Latvian Deputy Prime Minister Artis Pabriks said on Twitter that Russia "fired missiles which target not only Ukrainian civilians but also landed on NATO territory in Poland."
The Polish Foreign Ministry said a Russian produced rocket had hit a grain drying facility in the farm, and confirmed they had since summoned the Russian ambassador
Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Reinsalu said, according to BNS newswire: "We are discussing with our allies how to respond to what happened jointly and decisively.
The Associated Press earlier cited a senior US intelligence official as saying the blast was due to Russian missiles crossing into Poland
The Associated Press have 3 anonymous sources within US intelligence that are saying it was a Ukranian missile.
Where are you getting this article from?
There was multiple sources. Here is one.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nz.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/nations-scramble-as-poland-hit-by-russian-missiles-213853900.html
My point being, immediate blame apportioned to Russia by Latvian prime minister, Polish foreign minister and a whole host of other sources before investigation took place.
Look at the headline in CNN hours after most facts have been established.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/15/europe/poland-missile-rocket-nato-przewodow-ukraine-intl/index.html
The bigger picture is though, that at some stage it is almost inevitable that there will be a Nato/Russian military incident in this area.
Quote from: grounded on November 16, 2022, 10:45:30 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 09:03:34 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 16, 2022, 08:13:16 AM
LIVE Russia missiles hit Poland LIVE: NATO fears after rockets land in country killing two
Two Russian rockets have landed in a village in eastern Poland leaving two people dead, as the country's top politicians called an emergency meeting over the incident
Latvian Deputy Prime Minister Artis Pabriks said on Twitter that Russia "fired missiles which target not only Ukrainian civilians but also landed on NATO territory in Poland."
The Polish Foreign Ministry said a Russian produced rocket had hit a grain drying facility in the farm, and confirmed they had since summoned the Russian ambassador
Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Reinsalu said, according to BNS newswire: "We are discussing with our allies how to respond to what happened jointly and decisively.
The Associated Press earlier cited a senior US intelligence official as saying the blast was due to Russian missiles crossing into Poland
The Associated Press have 3 anonymous sources within US intelligence that are saying it was a Ukranian missile.
Where are you getting this article from?
There was multiple sources. Here is one.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nz.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/nations-scramble-as-poland-hit-by-russian-missiles-213853900.html
My point being, immediate blame apportioned to Russia by Latvian prime minister, Polish foreign minister and a whole host of other sources before investigation took place.
Look at the headline in CNN hours after most facts have been established.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/15/europe/poland-missile-rocket-nato-przewodow-ukraine-intl/index.html
The bigger picture is though, that at some stage it is almost inevitable that there will be a Nato/Russian military incident in this area.
Calm heads need to prevail when it does happen.
Was in the shop there. The papers today are mental. Every single front page is blaming Russia. What a monumental c**k up.
Is there any evidence it was a Russian attack? What's the conflicting evidence?
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 11:05:10 AM
Was in the shop there. The papers today are mental. Every single front page is blaming Russia. What a monumental c**k up.
Is there any evidence it was a Russian attack? What's the conflicting evidence?
Russia is to blame either way. The Ukraine would not be firing missiles to shoot down Russian missiles if the Russians were not firing them at them.
If a thief breaks in next door and you are woken up by the alarm, then it is fault of the thief.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 11:26:52 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 11:05:10 AM
Was in the shop there. The papers today are mental. Every single front page is blaming Russia. What a monumental c**k up.
Is there any evidence it was a Russian attack? What's the conflicting evidence?
Russia is to blame either way. The Ukraine would not be firing missiles to shoot down Russian missiles if the Russians were not firing them at them.
If a thief breaks in next door and you are woken up by the alarm, then it is fault of the thief.
When I say they are blaming Russia, the headlines are "Russian missiles kill 2 in Poland" and the like. Not that it was a Ukrainian missile defending from Russian strikes. The news stories are that Russia has attacked NATO soil, a line that seemed unthinkable to cross.
Completely trigger happy stuff by media organisations who only care about catching eyeballs, to hell if WW3 kicks off in the process.
These headlines have led to a Twitter mob calling for retaliatory NATO strikes onto Moscow for something they didn't do.
It's dangerous stuff.
All backtracking now to say they it was Ukraine.
It could have been a S-300 anti aircraft missile or the like, and so Russian made.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 12:06:44 PM
It could have been a S-300 anti aircraft missile or the like, and so Russian made.
Irrelevant who made it. If it was supplied by the west do we blame them?
What matters is who fired it and from where.
There is nothing particularly remarkable here. Russia fired a rake of missiles, a missile shows up in Poland which appears to be Russian made. Russia was an initial suspect here for good reasons, they investigated it and established the truth within 24 hours.
As I said, Russia is the cause of it in any case.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 12:18:12 PM
There is nothing particularly remarkable here. Russia fired a rake of missiles, a missile shows up in Poland which appears to be Russian made. Russia was an initial suspect here for good reasons, they investigated it and established the truth within 24 hours.
As I said, Russia is the cause of it in any case.
So, what - NATO attack Russia anyway? It's like Russia saying, "oh, NATO supplies all these weapons, training, and advice to Ukraine, let's attack NATO".
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 12:18:12 PM
There is nothing particularly remarkable here. Russia fired a rake of missiles, a missile shows up in Poland which appears to be Russian made. Russia was an initial suspect here for good reasons, they investigated it and established the truth within 24 hours.
As I said, Russia is the cause of it in any case.
Undoubtedly Russia is main instigator, but the instant blame of Russia without the full facts by the Latvian Prime minister and Polish foreign minister is extremely worrying from a NATO perspective.
The main point though is, the longer this conflict goes on increases the chances of a NATO/Russian military incident. It doesn't matter if it's an accident/deliberate the outcome will be the same.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 16, 2022, 12:49:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 12:18:12 PM
There is nothing particularly remarkable here. Russia fired a rake of missiles, a missile shows up in Poland which appears to be Russian made. Russia was an initial suspect here for good reasons, they investigated it and established the truth within 24 hours.
As I said, Russia is the cause of it in any case.
So, what - NATO attack Russia anyway? It's like Russia saying, "oh, NATO supplies all these weapons, training, and advice to Ukraine, let's attack NATO".
From a Russian POV NATO have probably done more than enough to deserve to be attacked, won't happen though for obvious reasons.
It's like the time Ian Óg was on Nolan blaming the dissidents for a cops car on fire on the Bangor Road. I remember Twitter that day too.
Turned out it was an engine problem.
The papers were going on like russia started a bombling blitz on poland with headlines like russian missiiles poland
Quote from: grounded on November 16, 2022, 01:00:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 12:18:12 PM
There is nothing particularly remarkable here. Russia fired a rake of missiles, a missile shows up in Poland which appears to be Russian made. Russia was an initial suspect here for good reasons, they investigated it and established the truth within 24 hours.
As I said, Russia is the cause of it in any case.
Undoubtedly Russia is main instigator, but the instant blame of Russia without the full facts by the Latvian Prime minister and Polish foreign minister is extremely worrying from a NATO perspective.
The main point though is, the longer this conflict goes on increases the chances of a NATO/Russian military incident. It doesn't matter if it's an accident/deliberate the outcome will be the same.
The "main" instigator?. Who are the other instigators?
Quote from: Eire90 on November 16, 2022, 02:04:22 PM
The papers were going on like russia started a bombling blitz on poland with headlines like russian missiiles poland
Which papers?
Quote from: smelmoth on November 16, 2022, 02:25:56 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 16, 2022, 02:04:22 PM
The papers were going on like russia started a bombling blitz on poland with headlines like russian missiiles poland
Which papers?
Daily Mirror - "
Russian bombs hit Poland"
The Times - "
Russians blamed for fatal strike on Poland"
The S*n - "
Putin bombs NATO"
Daily Express - "
Russian missiles kill 2 in Poland"
I'm sure there are others, someone said the Sindo had a similar headline but I haven't seen it.
The Russian government has banned the Irish government ministers and top officials from visiting.
I expect that Leo will have to reassess his holiday plans.
It's OK to say Ukraine fucked up and a lot of the western media lost the run of themselves, don't lose objectivity.
There is no media only activists.
Quote from: smelmoth on November 16, 2022, 02:25:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on November 16, 2022, 01:00:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 12:18:12 PM
There is nothing particularly remarkable here. Russia fired a rake of missiles, a missile shows up in Poland which appears to be Russian made. Russia was an initial suspect here for good reasons, they investigated it and established the truth within 24 hours.
As I said, Russia is the cause of it in any case.
Undoubtedly Russia is main instigator, but the instant blame of Russia without the full facts by the Latvian Prime minister and Polish foreign minister is extremely worrying from a NATO perspective.
The main point though is, the longer this conflict goes on increases the chances of a NATO/Russian military incident. It doesn't matter if it's an accident/deliberate the outcome will be the same.
The "main" instigator?. Who are the other instigators?
You talkin' to me
Zelensky is nuts. I feel like the Wesht, Biden in particular, are starting to catch on.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-poland-missile-g20-putin-b2226325.html%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-poland-missile-g20-putin-b2226325.html%3famp)
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 07:11:38 PM
Zelensky is nuts. I feel like the Wesht, Biden in particular, are starting to catch on.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-poland-missile-g20-putin-b2226325.html%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-poland-missile-g20-putin-b2226325.html%3famp)
joe looking for another 38 b to send there , the money laundering is in full swing.
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2022, 07:11:38 PM
Zelensky is nuts. I feel like the Wesht, Biden in particular, are starting to catch on.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-poland-missile-g20-putin-b2226325.html%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-poland-missile-g20-putin-b2226325.html%3famp)
Ukraine war: Poland missile strike reveals Nato divisions
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63651154
Quote from: burdizzo on November 16, 2022, 12:49:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 12:18:12 PM
There is nothing particularly remarkable here. Russia fired a rake of missiles, a missile shows up in Poland which appears to be Russian made. Russia was an initial suspect here for good reasons, they investigated it and established the truth within 24 hours.
As I said, Russia is the cause of it in any case.
So, what - NATO attack Russia anyway? It's like Russia saying, "oh, NATO supplies all these weapons, training, and advice to Ukraine, let's attack NATO".
Useful idiot spiel. absolute quakery ;D
Both protagonists, Russia and Ukraine have nothing to gain by targeting Poland. Even the shít for brains Russian army knows that.
Poland are already committed 100% to supporting Ukraine and this missile will not diminish that support, probably just deepen that resolve.
Some of the price Ukraine is paying for its fight for freedom.
https://twitter.com/MriyaReport/status/1592780592340676608 (https://twitter.com/MriyaReport/status/1592780592340676608)
Rescue the puppy
https://twitter.com/operativno_ZSU/status/1592933586344497152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/operativno_ZSU/status/1592933586344497152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61607410
Zelensky is a war time leader and never lets that facade down, all the facts are probably not known yet about the Polish border missle but his doubling down on 'it was the Russians' is not a good look for him & his allies, a bit of humility and some political acumen would be a better path.
It's like the 21st Century's version of Nazi indoctrination of children to love Hitler. Or a mirror image of North Korea.
And kids donning the half swastika Z symbol " sing that they are with ,дядя Вова' (uncle Vova, short for Vladimir) for the last fight. Bizarre to see five years olds singing this"
https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1532395785182126081
I believe no SFrs on the Russia banned list.....
Shoigu said that the Russian military should deploy next-generation weapons in its campaign in Ukraine,he probably means this literally, as in mobilizing the next generation. 5-18 year olds.
(https://static.themoscowtimes.com/image/article_1360/0a/52cb6b1894ff9741951256df9ecde60b.png)
i hear there is a lot of Z grafitti in donegal around letterkenny i was thinking isnt their a lot conspiracy people around those parts and a few conspiracy cults probably the nut jobs that worship trump.
Quote from: Eire90 on December 03, 2022, 12:25:36 AM
i hear there is a lot of Z grafitti in donegal around letterkenny i was thinking isnt their a lot conspiracy people around those parts and a few conspiracy cults probably the nut jobs that worship trump.
It only takes one useful idiot a few hours to heroically spray can that symbol of hate, there is no call to castigate a community who in all probability are fully supportive of the plight of the Ukrainian refugees.
i wasnt talking about the community i said their is conspiracy groups operating in that area.
Quote from: Eire90 on December 03, 2022, 02:06:17 AM
i wasnt talking about the community i said their is conspiracy groups operating in that area.
Seeing as you have a chronic problem with distinguishing the difference between their and there, how the fck would you know about conspiracy groups and their covert support for fascist nazi Russia?
It only takes one useful idiot with a spray can in any locality to do minimalist graffiti repeatedly.
Just like it only takes one useful idiot with a laptop to put up pictures of a children's pageant and suggest they're all about to be sent as "weapons" of war. Sick.
Ukraine: The People's Fight on BBC2 was as good a documentary as I've seen for a while. Fascinating insight.
Interesting. He's crossed the Rubicon with with this rant I reckon.
BBC News - Yevgeny Prigozhin: Wagner chief blames war on defence minister
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-65996531
News night saying Coup attempt
Could there be a civil war in the making?
I've always been confused why the Russian air force didn't make a bigger impact in Ukraine. You'd think if the Wagner convoy pulls out onto the main motorway to Moscow they'd be wiped out by Russian planes - sitting ducks. Looks like they've swapped one suicide mission for another.
If Russia does implode the world will be a dangerous place for a while. Hell of a lot of nuclear weaponry would be under an even more dysfunctional command system.
Quote from: Sportacus on June 24, 2023, 11:46:37 AM
I've always been confused why the Russian air force didn't make a bigger impact in Ukraine.
Lack of good precision guided munitions and electronic warfare.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 24, 2023, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on June 24, 2023, 11:46:37 AM
I've always been confused why the Russian air force didn't make a bigger impact in Ukraine.
Lack of good precision guided munitions and electronic warfare.
More like the Ukrainians having useful anti aircraft defences.
Ukrainian response
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ct3iCEuIxHu
Planes like tank become more redundant and the modern war based on missiles, artillery.
This could be like the CIA training and arming Bin Laden in the 80's. 2030 having to fight the Wagner Group.
Is it a case of better the devil you know?
Quote from: pbat on June 24, 2023, 04:19:10 PM
This could be like the CIA training and arming Bin Laden in the 80's. 2030 having to fight the Wagner Group.
Is it a case of better the devil you know?
Don't see how this ends any other way than Yevgeny Prigozhin dead (an undignified merciless public death at that) and Wagner disbanded.
That ross atkins video on these boys is scary. Leavin aside current situation, that Wagner crowd is all over Africa, all to do with mines and money of course. But how many of these "small" armies are there? Whodafuqs runnin the world anyway?! Fcukitt im away to watch Glasto, gona be the last one 😃
Quote from: bennydorano on June 24, 2023, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: pbat on June 24, 2023, 04:19:10 PM
This could be like the CIA training and arming Bin Laden in the 80's. 2030 having to fight the Wagner Group.
Is it a case of better the devil you know?
Don't see how this ends any other way than Yevgeny Prigozhin dead (an undignified merciless public death at that) and Wagner disbanded.
Jesus, reading various bits on twitter, Moscow seems totally unprepared and very vulnerable, christ knows what's going to happen.
Is this Wagner group all Russians? Are they just hired out or do they work hand in hand with the other 'normal' Russian army?
Who funds them and have they much personnel and military gear?
Quote from: marty34 on June 24, 2023, 05:37:15 PM
Is this Wagner group all Russians? Are they just hired out or do they work hand in hand with the other 'normal' Russian army?
Who funds them and have they much personnel and military gear?
Bill Gates and Elon Musk are funding them I hear ;)
Quote from: marty34 on June 24, 2023, 05:37:15 PM
Is this Wagner group all Russians? Are they just hired out or do they work hand in hand with the other 'normal' Russian army?
Who funds them and have they much personnel and military gear?
Crowd of them are ex russian prisoners, got pardons if they agreed to fight in the War. I cant see how this could go wrong..
Is it over ???
Prigozhin says it's over:
"They were going to dismantle PMC Wagner. We came out on 23 June to the March of Justice. In a day, we walked to nearly 200km away from Moscow. In this time, we did not spill a single drop of blood of our fighters. Now, the moment has come when blood... https://t.co/FCzLBzNmKm
Surely he has just killed himself the clown. Putin was made to look weak and scared he won't letting baldy off
Sounded a lot like, 'let me at him, I'll knock his block off, don't hold me back'.
https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/06/24/prigozhin-stops-wagner-forces-200-km-away-from-moscow-says-they-return-to-field-camps/?swcfpc=1 (https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/06/24/prigozhin-stops-wagner-forces-200-km-away-from-moscow-says-they-return-to-field-camps/?swcfpc=1)
In a voice message published on his Telegram channel, Yevgeny Prigozhin, the owner of Wagner Group, announced that he ordered his forces to return to their field camps, as they were only 200 kilometers away from reaching Moscow
"They wanted to disband the Wagner PMC. We set out on 23 June on a justice march. Within a day, we marched just short of 200 km from Moscow. During that time, we have not shed a single drop of blood of our fighters. Now the moment has come when blood can be spilled, so, realizing all the responsibility for the fact that Russian blood will be spilled on one side, we are turning our columns around and leaving in the opposite direction to the field camps, according to the plan," Prigozhin stated.
Vladimir can't take this lying down surely. Fall down the stairs highly likely in Prigozhin's future.
Ah well, that passed a Saturday 😂😂
Quote from: bennydorano on June 24, 2023, 07:53:48 PM
Vladimir can't take this lying down surely. Fall down the stairs highly likely in Prigozhin's future.
Out a 4th floor window is the current favoured exit.
Fake coups are definitely trending these days
Quote from: Gmac on June 24, 2023, 08:40:52 PM
Fake coups are definitely trending these days
Fake elections too ;D
Everything is fake. Except what you want to believe. Stopped clocks right twice a day so you'll be right at some stage - keep at it.
Can't see why Russia ever need a wagner group, they got plenty of soldiers, maybe not best trained but they learn the hard way.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2023, 06:07:59 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 24, 2023, 05:37:15 PM
Is this Wagner group all Russians? Are they just hired out or do they work hand in hand with the other 'normal' Russian army?
Who funds them and have they much personnel and military gear?
Bill Gates and Elon Musk are funding them I hear ;)
J.P.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 24, 2023, 11:18:53 PM
Can't see why Russia ever need a wagner group, they got plenty of soldiers, maybe not best trained but they learn the hard way.
It's called plausible deniability, not just in Ukraine but all over the world.
It was a big day on Twitter anyway. A lot of mood music of regime change, but then Wagner retreated and Tyrone won.
According to some real leading lights on twitter it seems it was all part of a cunning plan to relocate numerous Wagner battalions 100km from Kiev.
When's Russian version of BlackAdder entering the fray.
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/az2Y2AB_460s.jpg)
(https://i.imgflip.com/7qkanw.jpg)
Quote from: bennydorano on June 25, 2023, 10:04:47 PM
According to some real leading lights on twitter it seems it was all part of a cunning plan to relocate numerous Wagner battalions 100km from Kiev.
sure everyone knows it's the gah board where all the sharp minds are ;)
they could have relocated Wagner without needing to stage a coup if that was the case.
Quote from: Eire90 on June 26, 2023, 02:43:09 PM
they could have relocated Wagner without needing to stage a coup if that was the case.
And not make Putin look scared and weak
Quote from: bennydorano on June 25, 2023, 10:04:47 PM
According to some real leading lights on twitter it seems it was all part of a cunning plan to relocate numerous Wagner battalions 100km from Kiev.
They thought the people would welcome them in March last year. They didn't.
Quote from: seafoid on June 26, 2023, 04:26:05 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 25, 2023, 10:04:47 PM
According to some real leading lights on twitter it seems it was all part of a cunning plan to relocate numerous Wagner battalions 100km from Kiev.
They thought the people would welcome them in March last year. They didn't.
The Wagner troops got a better welcome marching the opposite direction.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 24, 2023, 07:53:48 PM
Vladimir can't take this lying down surely. Fall down the stairs highly likely in Prigozhin's future.
Plane shot down more like it
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1694397308140474516
Aye by the Ukrainians. Haven't a clue whose doing what out there
The list keeps expanding
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_Russian_businesspeople_(2022–2023)
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 23, 2023, 06:14:32 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 24, 2023, 07:53:48 PM
Vladimir can't take this lying down surely. Fall down the stairs highly likely in Prigozhin's future.
Plane shot down more like it
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1694397308140474516
A shock to absolutely no one.
Quote from: An Watcher on August 23, 2023, 07:07:13 PM
Aye by the Ukrainians. Haven't a clue whose doing what out there
Gary Kasparov tweet
Every possible reality and outcome is good for Ukraine, so be happy for that. Even if it's part of a charade, it reflects chaos among Ukraine's enemies, murderous energy turned against one another. Dictatorships are stable until they are not, hard but brittle like glass.
Quote from: An Watcher on August 23, 2023, 07:07:13 PM
Aye by the Ukrainians. Haven't a clue whose doing what out there
Why would the Ukrainians target him when it was obviously only a matter of time before Putin did it for them.
Also if they had the capability to reach this far into Russia, accurately enough to take out a private jet, I'd imagine he wouldn't have been top of their target list.
Quote from: NAG1 on August 24, 2023, 09:13:05 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on August 23, 2023, 07:07:13 PM
Aye by the Ukrainians. Haven't a clue whose doing what out there
Why would the Ukrainians target him when it was obviously only a matter of time before Putin did it for them.
Also if they had the capability to reach this far into Russia, accurately enough to take out a private jet, I'd imagine he wouldn't have been top of their target list.
Media with links to the Wagner group are reporting that it was Russian military that shot the jet down (according to the BBC), which seems far more likely
Quote from: Hound on August 24, 2023, 09:16:53 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 24, 2023, 09:13:05 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on August 23, 2023, 07:07:13 PM
Aye by the Ukrainians. Haven't a clue whose doing what out there
Why would the Ukrainians target him when it was obviously only a matter of time before Putin did it for them.
Also if they had the capability to reach this far into Russia, accurately enough to take out a private jet, I'd imagine he wouldn't have been top of their target list.
Media with links to the Wagner group are reporting that it was Russian military that shot the jet down (according to the BBC), which seems far more likely
Of course, the conspiracy theory is that he wasn't on board at all and that this was just a mechanism to "disappear".
Could Wagner as an army now turn on Russia in retaliation?
Will it change anything? Russia's invasion is still a big mistake.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 24, 2023, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 24, 2023, 09:16:53 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 24, 2023, 09:13:05 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on August 23, 2023, 07:07:13 PM
Aye by the Ukrainians. Haven't a clue whose doing what out there
Why would the Ukrainians target him when it was obviously only a matter of time before Putin did it for them.
Also if they had the capability to reach this far into Russia, accurately enough to take out a private jet, I'd imagine he wouldn't have been top of their target list.
Media with links to the Wagner group are reporting that it was Russian military that shot the jet down (according to the BBC), which seems far more likely
Of course, the conspiracy theory is that he wasn't on board at all and that this was just a mechanism to "disappear".
From the BBC.
Grey Zone reports that a second business jet owned by Prigozhin landed safely in the Moscow region.
Quote from: LeoMc on August 24, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 24, 2023, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 24, 2023, 09:16:53 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 24, 2023, 09:13:05 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on August 23, 2023, 07:07:13 PM
Aye by the Ukrainians. Haven't a clue whose doing what out there
Why would the Ukrainians target him when it was obviously only a matter of time before Putin did it for them.
Also if they had the capability to reach this far into Russia, accurately enough to take out a private jet, I'd imagine he wouldn't have been top of their target list.
Media with links to the Wagner group are reporting that it was Russian military that shot the jet down (according to the BBC), which seems far more likely
Of course, the conspiracy theory is that he wasn't on board at all and that this was just a mechanism to "disappear".
From the BBC.
Grey Zone reports that a second business jet owned by Prigozhin landed safely in the Moscow region.
Apparently, he always has 2 of his planes flying to make it harder to identify which he was on.
why was he walking and flying around carefree for weeks
Why was he even in Russia?
I thought he was going to Belarus.
Strange that a man who staged a mutiny/coup would be in the exact place he was marching on and was unsuccessful
Still no official confirmation apparently
Quote from: Tubberman on August 24, 2023, 01:33:15 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 24, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 24, 2023, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 24, 2023, 09:16:53 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 24, 2023, 09:13:05 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on August 23, 2023, 07:07:13 PM
Aye by the Ukrainians. Haven't a clue whose doing what out there
Why would the Ukrainians target him when it was obviously only a matter of time before Putin did it for them.
Also if they had the capability to reach this far into Russia, accurately enough to take out a private jet, I'd imagine he wouldn't have been top of their target list.
Media with links to the Wagner group are reporting that it was Russian military that shot the jet down (according to the BBC), which seems far more likely
Of course, the conspiracy theory is that he wasn't on board at all and that this was just a mechanism to "disappear".
From the BBC.
Grey Zone reports that a second business jet owned by Prigozhin landed safely in the Moscow region.
Apparently, he always has 2 of his planes flying to make it harder to identify which he was on.
Though, seemingly, he ignored protocol by flying with Utkin a couple of times already. For both of them to be gone is effectively the end of Wagner, but if one remained, then it would still be viable.
Economist and Columbia University professor Dr. Sachs elaborates on the role the U.S. has played on the Ukraine-Russia war.
Jeffrey Sachs ON RISING: Zelensky & MSM Are LYING About Nord Stream, Ukraine War
Quote from: theskull1 on November 22, 2023, 02:28:22 PMEconomist and Columbia University professor Dr. Sachs elaborates on the role the U.S. has played on the Ukraine-Russia war.
Jeffrey Sachs ON RISING: Zelensky & MSM Are LYING About Nord Stream, Ukraine War
This open letter provides an accurate and succinct rebuttal to everything ever uttered by pro-Russian propagandist Jeffrey Sachs. Probably tldr for the attention span of the Irish pro-Russian brigade.
https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/03/20/open-letter-to-jeffrey-sachs-on-the-russia-ukraine-war
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 07, 2023, 01:56:00 PMQuote from: theskull1 on November 22, 2023, 02:28:22 PMEconomist and Columbia University professor Dr. Sachs elaborates on the role the U.S. has played on the Ukraine-Russia war.
Jeffrey Sachs ON RISING: Zelensky & MSM Are LYING About Nord Stream, Ukraine War
This open letter provides an accurate and succinct rebuttal to everything ever uttered by pro-Russian propagandist Jeffrey Sachs. Probably tldr for the attention span of the Irish pro-Russian brigade.
https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/03/20/open-letter-to-jeffrey-sachs-on-the-russia-ukraine-war
Total bullshít. Every line is Kremlin enhanced bullshít.
He's either a willing useless idiot or on the Kremlin payroll
How do you know? It DOES look like Ukraine is losing, and it does look like the west has had its gaze diverted, and it does look like Ukraine has been duped into fighting a proxy war to no end.
By the way, I'm fully aware that Putin is NOT our friend, but that doesn't mean the above ain't so.
Quote from: burdizzo on December 07, 2023, 11:19:19 PMHow do you know? It DOES look like Ukraine is losing, and it does look like the west has had its gaze diverted, and it does look like Ukraine has been duped into fighting a proxy war to no end.
By the way, I'm fully aware that Putin is NOT our friend, but that doesn't mean the above ain't so.
Ukraine is not losing, but they are not winning either. The West duped them to the extent that they are not providing the materiel required so that they cannot push on. The Europeans had allowed their military capacity run down so that they cannot help enough and the US are playing silly buggers.
Quote from: burdizzo on December 07, 2023, 11:19:19 PMHow do you know? It DOES look like Ukraine is losing, and it does look like the west has had its gaze diverted, and it does look like Ukraine has been duped into fighting a proxy war to no end.
By the way, I'm fully aware that Putin is NOT our friend, but that doesn't mean the above ain't so.
Apart from the west having it's gaze diverted, everything you have said is completely false. The idea that Ukraine has been duped into fighting a war is completely ridiculous - you didn't read that open letter to Jeffrey Sachs did you? I knew it was TLDR for the Irish pro-Russian muppet crew.
As for the the actual conduct of the war, Ukraine is not losing but they are a long way from winning. Largely thanks to western dithering over arms giving Russia time to dig themselves in like ticks.
Jeffrey and his ilk want to convince you all is lost so there will be another fake peace, giving Russia time to refresh, rebuild and relaunch again in another 2-3-4 years. They aren't going to stop. They've openly stated their aim in Ukraine is genocide, they aren't hiding it and never have and yet we still have Irish idiots going on about NATO and all the other bullshit Russian excuses for this war. The 'freethinkers' who disbelieve everything on MSM but swallow Russian propaganda on the likes of GrayZone like it's the jizz of the gods.You know who you are.
How's it going, Sid?
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 12:05:26 AMQuote from: burdizzo on December 07, 2023, 11:19:19 PMHow do you know? It DOES look like Ukraine is losing, and it does look like the west has had its gaze diverted, and it does look like Ukraine has been duped into fighting a proxy war to no end.
By the way, I'm fully aware that Putin is NOT our friend, but that doesn't mean the above ain't so.
Apart from the west having it's gaze diverted, everything you have said is completely false. The idea that Ukraine has been duped into fighting a war is completely ridiculous - you didn't read that open letter to Jeffrey Sachs did you? I knew it was TLDR for the Irish pro-Russian muppet crew.
As for the the actual conduct of the war, Ukraine is not losing but they are a long way from winning. Largely thanks to western dithering over arms giving Russia time to dig themselves in like ticks.
Jeffrey and his ilk want to convince you all is lost so there will be another fake peace, giving Russia time to refresh, rebuild and relaunch again in another 2-3-4 years. They aren't going to stop. They've openly stated their aim in Ukraine is genocide, they aren't hiding it and never have and yet we still have Irish idiots going on about NATO and all the other bullshit Russian excuses for this war. The 'freethinkers' who disbelieve everything on MSM but swallow Russian propaganda on the likes of GrayZone like it's the jizz of the gods.You know who you are.
Whos stated that and when?
Touch a nerve did I Armagh18?
The easiest example that springs to mind is the article published by Russian state owned media outlet RIA Novosti published on April 3rd 2022 and titled, "What should Russia do with Ukraine". Have a read if it's not too long and hard to follow for your GrayZone addled brain.
Like I said, they aren't even trying to hide it, yet idiots like yourself are still talking pish about NATO.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 08:54:23 AMTouch a nerve did I Armagh18?
The easiest example that springs to mind is the article published by Russian state owned media outlet RIA Novosti published on April 3rd 2022 and titled, "What should Russia do with Ukraine". Have a read if it's not too long and hard to follow for your GrayZone addled brain.
Like I said, they aren't even trying to hide it, yet idiots like yourself are still talking pish about NATO.
That was a genuine question. Have you a proper link with quotes from Putin?
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 08, 2023, 09:11:35 AMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 08:54:23 AMTouch a nerve did I Armagh18?
The easiest example that springs to mind is the article published by Russian state owned media outlet RIA Novosti published on April 3rd 2022 and titled, "What should Russia do with Ukraine". Have a read if it's not too long and hard to follow for your GrayZone addled brain.
Like I said, they aren't even trying to hide it, yet idiots like yourself are still talking pish about NATO.
That was a genuine question. Have you a proper link with quotes from Putin?
Man with genuine question can't be bothered to read an easy to find article online. Google it and read it.
p.s. you won't find it on the Grayzone.
Where is there the suggestion that that article is official Russian policy on Ukraine? Zelensky said it amounted to proof Russia intended to carry out genocide in Ukraine, but now, come on, do you never sniff a bit of hyperbole from Zelensky?! I know it's war, and all, but basically anything he says should be taken with a large pinch of salt, at least.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 09:31:22 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 08, 2023, 09:11:35 AMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 08:54:23 AMTouch a nerve did I Armagh18?
The easiest example that springs to mind is the article published by Russian state owned media outlet RIA Novosti published on April 3rd 2022 and titled, "What should Russia do with Ukraine". Have a read if it's not too long and hard to follow for your GrayZone addled brain.
Like I said, they aren't even trying to hide it, yet idiots like yourself are still talking pish about NATO.
That was a genuine question. Have you a proper link with quotes from Putin?
Man with genuine question can't be bothered to read an easy to find article online. Google it and read it.
p.s. you won't find it on the Grayzone.
8 posts in 10 years. Headcase.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 08, 2023, 11:02:59 AMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 09:31:22 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 08, 2023, 09:11:35 AMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 08:54:23 AMTouch a nerve did I Armagh18?
The easiest example that springs to mind is the article published by Russian state owned media outlet RIA Novosti published on April 3rd 2022 and titled, "What should Russia do with Ukraine". Have a read if it's not too long and hard to follow for your GrayZone addled brain.
Like I said, they aren't even trying to hide it, yet idiots like yourself are still talking pish about NATO.
That was a genuine question. Have you a proper link with quotes from Putin?
Man with genuine question can't be bothered to read an easy to find article online. Google it and read it.
p.s. you won't find it on the Grayzone.
8 posts in 10 years. Headcase.
Completely irrelevant to anything I've said.
I
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 08, 2023, 11:02:59 AMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 09:31:22 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 08, 2023, 09:11:35 AMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 08:54:23 AMTouch a nerve did I Armagh18?
The easiest example that springs to mind is the article published by Russian state owned media outlet RIA Novosti published on April 3rd 2022 and titled, "What should Russia do with Ukraine". Have a read if it's not too long and hard to follow for your GrayZone addled brain.
Like I said, they aren't even trying to hide it, yet idiots like yourself are still talking pish about NATO.
That was a genuine question. Have you a proper link with quotes from Putin?
Man with genuine question can't be bothered to read an easy to find article online. Google it and read it.
p.s. you won't find it on the Grayzone.
8 posts in 10 years. Headcase.
I suspect its a burner account who doesn't want their views associated with their regular account.
Quote from: burdizzo on December 08, 2023, 11:00:55 AMWhere is there the suggestion that that article is official Russian policy on Ukraine? Zelensky said it amounted to proof Russia intended to carry out genocide in Ukraine, but now, come on, do you never sniff a bit of hyperbole from Zelensky?! I know it's war, and all, but basically anything he says should be taken with a large pinch of salt, at least.
The proof is in the pudding and the pudding contains military invasion, annexation of territory, destruction of cities involving the deaths of tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians, massacres of civilians, torture centres in occupied territory, mass rape in occupied territory, 'de-Ukrainisation' in occupied territory, filtration camps, forced deportation of children from occupied territory to Russia. Let's be clear, the aim of Russia is the destruction of the Ukrainian state and the Ukrainian national identity. Complete Russification of Ukraine and that is genocide.
You don't have to listen to anything Zelenskyy says. Russian actions in Ukraine exactly match their genocidal rhetoric.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 08, 2023, 11:39:25 AMIQuote from: Armagh18 on December 08, 2023, 11:02:59 AMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 09:31:22 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 08, 2023, 09:11:35 AMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 08, 2023, 08:54:23 AMTouch a nerve did I Armagh18?
The easiest example that springs to mind is the article published by Russian state owned media outlet RIA Novosti published on April 3rd 2022 and titled, "What should Russia do with Ukraine". Have a read if it's not too long and hard to follow for your GrayZone addled brain.
Like I said, they aren't even trying to hide it, yet idiots like yourself are still talking pish about NATO.
That was a genuine question. Have you a proper link with quotes from Putin?
Man with genuine question can't be bothered to read an easy to find article online. Google it and read it.
p.s. you won't find it on the Grayzone.
8 posts in 10 years. Headcase.
I suspect its a burner account who doesn't want their views associated with their regular account.
Your suspicions are false and completely irrelevant in any case.
Nicola Tallant's Crime World has an interesting podcast on the Kinahans links to Russia and Iran. This is the preamble.
Episode 445: The Kinahan Cartel bed down with Russia and Iran in hopes of avoiding extradition to Ireland description
Dapper Don Christy Kinahan Snr and his son Daniel are playing Russian Roulette with Vladimir Putin as the Irish Government make moves to bring them home to face charges.
In an incredible spin of the wheel, they have placed everything on black and have become deeply embedded in the Russian and Iranian regimes offering up their transport routes and South American cocaine suppliers in exchange for sanctuary as their future in the United Arab Emirates looks increasingly bleak.
As Justice Minister Helen McEntee begins the process of setting up an extradition agreement with Dubai we look at the links between the Kinahans and the mafia states they believe may save them.
Quote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 10:21:31 AMNicola Tallant's Crime World has an interesting podcast on the Kinahans links to Russia and Iran. This is the preamble.
Episode 445: The Kinahan Cartel bed down with Russia and Iran in hopes of avoiding extradition to Ireland description
Dapper Don Christy Kinahan Snr and his son Daniel are playing Russian Roulette with Vladimir Putin as the Irish Government make moves to bring them home to face charges.
In an incredible spin of the wheel, they have placed everything on black and have become deeply embedded in the Russian and Iranian regimes offering up their transport routes and South American cocaine suppliers in exchange for sanctuary as their future in the United Arab Emirates looks increasingly bleak.
As Justice Minister Helen McEntee begins the process of setting up an extradition agreement with Dubai we look at the links between the Kinahans and the mafia states they believe may save them.
They're in Iran now allegedly left Dubai was the last rumour?
Quote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2022, 01:02:52 PMWell, you could go back to 2014 with all this, and the western-backed coup then. And what really were their intentions that time? Of course, the invasion was a bit like cracking a nut w/ a sledge-hammer, but as I said earlier in this thread, I believe there was a Turkish-brokered peace-deal on the table very soon afterwards which would have delivered Ukrainian neutrality, and greater "self-rule" for the eastern areas. There was no talk of annexation of these areas (which, in fact, was only done so that Russia could send conscripts there), and no talk of regime change. I understand - from listening to various 'neutral' podcasts - that Zelensky was about to accept this, only the west (and Johnson in particular) talked him out of it with promises of arms, etc. Really, the west was and is pretty gung-ho about all this - very easy when it's not your own population paying in blood.
Some beautiful gems in this thread - 'Western backed coup' - The imaginary peace deal that Johnson apparently torpedoed. You lads would swallow anything.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 12:09:34 PMno need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.
Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.
More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.
Donbas being bombed for 8 years - turns out if you invade a country with your army they fire missiles back. Who'd have thought.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:02:19 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 12:09:34 PMno need for a new thread... the inconsistencies couldn't be clearer here.
Did you care when donbass was beening bombed for 8 years? did these civilians not count. they might be sham but who knows what those regions want, in terms of the populations holding Russian passports it was significant pre war.
More effort should have been made to fix the issues with the Minsk agreement. I am not suggesting it would not have been complex but it seems to me like not enough effort from the west to prevent war and all efforts now are at prolonging and the suffering of the Ukrainians amd it is not a very high priority to prevent this suffering.
Donbas being bombed for 8 years - turns out if you invade a country with your army they fire missiles back. Who'd have thought.
not so concerned for those citizens of donbass.
A US Intelligence report (reported in UK Times today) states that Russia has lost 315,000 men (dead & injured). Loses in personnel & armoured vehicles have set Russian military modernisation back 18 years.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2023, 04:13:57 PMA US Intelligence report (reported in UK Times today) states that Russia has lost 315,000 men (dead & injured). Loses in personnel & armoured vehicles have set Russian military modernisation back 18 years.
All completely unnecessary. The murdered Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya put it well when she said:
'Putin, having accidentally got the grip of huge power, disposed of it with catastrophic consequences for Russia. And I don't like him because he doesn't like people. He cannot stand us. He despises us. He believes that we are a means for him, and nothing more. A means to achieve his personal power goals. So he can do everything he wants to us – to play as he pleases. To destroy us at his will. We are nobody. And he, although he accidentally cut in the queue, is now the king and god, whom we must worship and fear.'
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2023, 04:13:57 PMA US Intelligence report (reported in UK Times today) states that Russia has lost 315,000 men (dead & injured). Loses in personnel & armoured vehicles have set Russian military modernisation back 18 years.
That's devastating.
I genuinely feel for the normal Russian people who are suffering as a result of Putin's war mongering.
Of course the Ukrainians are suffering much more, but there are no winners here no matter what the outcome is.
Given the way this invasion has went and the lack of progress in pushing Russian forces further back, it looks like this is going to be a long term war.
Ukraine need that international support, especially from the US, and it might not come until after the next US election. Without it, Russia may be able to advance. With it, stalemate seems to be the likely outcome.
Ultimately there will have to be a political answer but unfortunately I think that means many more deaths until both sides are willing to concede something.
Russia don't deserve anything but will probably increase their land mass on the back of this invasion.
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 13, 2023, 04:32:44 PMQuote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2023, 04:13:57 PMA US Intelligence report (reported in UK Times today) states that Russia has lost 315,000 men (dead & injured). Loses in personnel & armoured vehicles have set Russian military modernisation back 18 years.
That's devastating.
I genuinely feel for the normal Russian people who are suffering as a result of Putin's war mongering.
Of course the Ukrainians are suffering much more, but there are no winners here no matter what the outcome is.
Given the way this invasion has went and the lack of progress in pushing Russian forces further back, it looks like this is going to be a long term war.
Ukraine need that international support, especially from the US, and it might not come until after the next US election. Without it, Russia may be able to advance. With it, stalemate seems to be the likely outcome.
Ultimately there will have to be a political answer but unfortunately I think that means many more deaths until both sides are willing to concede something.
Russia don't deserve anything but will probably increase their land mass on the back of this invasion.
A peace deal that involves Ukraine ceding any land to Russia will not only be a great injustice but also won't bring peace, it will merely kick the can down the road as Russia will rebuild it's military and relaunch in 2-3-4 years time. The Minsk Agreements didn't bring peace and neither will some sort of Minsk 3. Russia does not honour peace agreements.
Unfortunately it does look like a stalemate thanks to western dithering over arms and allowing Russia time to build their fortifications. It also looks like the US doesn't want a Ukrainian victory merely a weakened Russia. There can be no other explanation for the slow feed of weapons given the amount of armaments the US is sitting on.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 04:48:08 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on December 13, 2023, 04:32:44 PMQuote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2023, 04:13:57 PMA US Intelligence report (reported in UK Times today) states that Russia has lost 315,000 men (dead & injured). Loses in personnel & armoured vehicles have set Russian military modernisation back 18 years.
That's devastating.
I genuinely feel for the normal Russian people who are suffering as a result of Putin's war mongering.
Of course the Ukrainians are suffering much more, but there are no winners here no matter what the outcome is.
Given the way this invasion has went and the lack of progress in pushing Russian forces further back, it looks like this is going to be a long term war.
Ukraine need that international support, especially from the US, and it might not come until after the next US election. Without it, Russia may be able to advance. With it, stalemate seems to be the likely outcome.
Ultimately there will have to be a political answer but unfortunately I think that means many more deaths until both sides are willing to concede something.
Russia don't deserve anything but will probably increase their land mass on the back of this invasion.
A peace deal that involves Ukraine ceding any land to Russia will not only be a great injustice but also won't bring peace, it will merely kick the can down the road as Russia will rebuild it's military and relaunch in 2-3-4 years time. The Minsk Agreements didn't bring peace and neither will some sort of Minsk 3. Russia does not honour peace agreements.
Unfortunately it does look like a stalemate thanks to western dithering over arms and allowing Russia time to build their fortifications. It also looks like the US doesn't want a Ukrainian victory merely a weakened Russia. There can be no other explanation for the slow feed of weapons given the amount of armaments the US is sitting on.
Unfortunately, large elements of one of the two major US political parties are pro-Putin and anti-Ukraine. The overall party is taking advantage of that to use funding as a political weapon to get concessions from Biden on other issues. In the meantime, Zelensky has to wait, despite another visit to Washington this week.
Thats more than Russia lost in Afghanistan, and other uprisings since WW2.its funny on US complaining about funding the Ukraine, when guns and heavy weapons are Coming out of their ears in that country.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2023, 11:45:40 PMThats more than Russia lost in Afghanistan, and other uprisings since WW2.its funny on US complaining about funding the Ukraine, when guns and heavy weapons are Coming out of their ears in that country.
Complaining about funding but it is primarily an accountancy trick. The US has a lot of servicable equipment that is end of life. They would need to pay to have it destroyed but when it is transferred to Ukraine it is at full book value.
Quote from: LeoMc on December 14, 2023, 11:25:36 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2023, 11:45:40 PMThats more than Russia lost in Afghanistan, and other uprisings since WW2.its funny on US complaining about funding the Ukraine, when guns and heavy weapons are Coming out of their ears in that country.
Complaining about funding but it is primarily an accountancy trick. The US has a lot of servicable equipment that is end of life. They would need to pay to have it destroyed but when it is transferred to Ukraine it is at full book value.
Exactly, The actual cash value transferred is a lot less. Yet, this stuff is very useful to Ukraine, a few 25 year old ATACMS blew up one quarter of the operational Russian helicopters, several anti aircraft batteries and their HQ. Those missiles would have to be disposed of otherwise.
Would ye put any stake on this
https://twitter.com/UnityNewsNet/status/1737534085101162702?t=QT_79U95JnrAFrCZKvOc4g&s=19
One follower of mine on twitter follows them. Let's just say if he's believing them I would have my doubts...
I read Zelensky was looking 500k more soldiers. Not sure non military ukranian men would love that.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 20, 2023, 07:22:59 PMOne follower of mine on twitter follows them. Let's just say if he's believing them I would have my doubts...
I read Zelensky was looking 500k more soldiers. Not sure non military ukranian men would love that.
They might not like it, but they might not like being occupied by the Russians either.
They would be pretty aware of that prospect and have chosen thus far not to join already though... Dunno what way that will go or whether just made up.
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2023/12/19/irish-born-marine-veteran-who-wrote-of-iraq-war-killed-in-ukraine/
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 20, 2023, 08:07:48 PMThey would be pretty aware of that prospect and have chosen thus far not to join already though... Dunno what way that will go or whether just made up.
Robust conscription is pretty usual in wars.
The Ukraine push into the Donbas over 2023 failed. They need better weapons to make a difference now.
Financial Times were thinking that EU membership is a catrrot in return for the loss of some territory in Eastern Ukraine at some point.
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2023, 09:48:20 AMThe Ukraine push into the Donbas over 2023 failed. They need better weapons to make a difference now.
Financial Times were thinking that EU membership is a catrrot in return for the loss of some territory in Eastern Ukraine at some point.
Losing territory in the Donbas is not a cure. Putin does not have the objective of capturing a few worn out industrial areas in the Donbas, and giving him them to him will not solve the problem.
There was an article in the French paper le Monde about Russian prisoner conscripts. They are sent into impossible situations. If they get injured they are left to die. If they die nobody collects the body. It sounds like hell.
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2023, 04:43:13 PMThere was an article in the French paper le Monde about Russian prisoner conscripts. They are sent into impossible situations. If they get injured they are left to die. If they die nobody collects the body. It sounds like hell.
The Ukrainians make a slightly better effort and are closer to their home territory to medical treatment. They had some NATO medical stuff which helps too. The Irish government could usefully fork out some more money for medical kits and the like.
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2023, 04:43:13 PMThere was an article in the French paper le Monde about Russian prisoner conscripts. They are sent into impossible situations. If they get injured they are left to die. If they die nobody collects the body. It sounds like hell.
I was watching the WWII documentary on Netflix and the Russian doctrine was to throw bodies at it. 500,000 killed here, 300,000 killed there. Their losses were colossal but they win in the end.
Nothing much has changed, they'll just keep endlessly shipping young men to the frontline because they can.
Quote from: Sportacus on December 22, 2023, 08:32:52 AMQuote from: seafoid on December 21, 2023, 04:43:13 PMThere was an article in the French paper le Monde about Russian prisoner conscripts. They are sent into impossible situations. If they get injured they are left to die. If they die nobody collects the body. It sounds like hell.
I was watching the WWII documentary on Netflix and the Russian doctrine was to throw bodies at it. 500,000 killed here, 300,000 killed there. Their losses were colossal but they win in the end.
Nothing much has changed, they'll just keep endlessly shipping young men to the frontline because they can.
That was fine back in the day when people still had big families and the population was booming. Russia is similar to the rest of the western world and facing a demographic time bomb. Losing hundreds of thousands of young men just accelerates it.
American youtuber gonzalo lira coach redpill found dead in ukraine in police custody.
Ouch. Wasn't he arrested before and released?
Quote from: burdizzo on January 13, 2024, 08:08:05 AMOuch. Wasn't he arrested before and released?
Arrested and released on bail and rearrested when he announced his decision to skip bail and leave the country on YouTube. Utter idiocy and arrogance.
He was also announced dead before on Twitter and resurrected so who knows if it's legit this time. Seems to be so.
Edit: It appears he is dead. He is also reported to have died in a Kharkiv hospital rather than being found dead in prison.
British YouTube Russian propagandist turned war criminal Graham Phillips loses appeal against UK govt sanctions:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/russia-ukraine-british-uk-government-lawyers-b2477602.html
Hopefully there is a Interpol Red Notice out on this particular chap and he is arrested soon. I would imagine he will get fed up living in Russia at some point, probably when his benefactors stop his pocket money.
"Terrorists declared me a terrorist"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67968534
Boris Akunin joins the long list of writers who have been declared an enemy of the state by the kremlin. Boris is not the greatest but is currently the most popular world wide by a country mile with his series based on the amazing adventurous of the fictional character Erast Fandorin. Boris has been openly critical since 2014 of russia's war of aggression against Ukraine.
an aside - what the article does not tell is that Boris is a Georgian, albeit one with russian citizenship.
Though the kremlin shouts loud about russia's great literary culture, most probably most of the famed writers such as Dostoevsky,Chekhov,Tolstoy, Gogol, would all be declared 'Enemy of the State' by the current kremlin regime.
Quote from: Main Street on January 13, 2024, 10:49:54 PM"Terrorists declared me a terrorist"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67968534
Boris Akunin joins the long list of writers who have been declared an enemy of the state by the kremlin. Boris is not the greatest but is currently the most popular world wide by a country mile with his series based on the amazing adventurous of the fictional character Erast Fandorin. Boris has been openly critical since 2014 of russia's war of aggression against Ukraine.
an aside - what the article does not tell is that Boris is a Georgian, albeit one with russian citizenship.
Though the kremlin shouts loud about russia's great literary culture, most probably most of the famed writers such as Dostoevsky,Chekhov,Tolstoy, Gogol, would all be declared 'Enemy of the State' by the current kremlin regime.
I absolutely love his stuff.
Quote from: ziggy90 on January 15, 2024, 10:43:36 AMQuote from: Main Street on January 13, 2024, 10:49:54 PM"Terrorists declared me a terrorist"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67968534
Boris Akunin joins the long list of writers who have been declared an enemy of the state by the kremlin. Boris is not the greatest but is currently the most popular world wide by a country mile with his series based on the amazing adventurous of the fictional character Erast Fandorin. Boris has been openly critical since 2014 of russia's war of aggression against Ukraine.
an aside - what the article does not tell is that Boris is a Georgian, albeit one with russian citizenship.
Though the kremlin shouts loud about russia's great literary culture, most probably most of the famed writers such as Dostoevsky,Chekhov,Tolstoy, Gogol, would all be declared 'Enemy of the State' by the current kremlin regime.
I absolutely love his stuff.
Interesting interview here on imperialism in Russian literature. Hard to say whether the classic Russian writers would be declared enemies of the state or be feted by Putin. If they held their outdated views on empire in the 21stC then certainly the latter.
https://revdem.ceu.edu/2022/06/07/imperialism-in-russian-literature/amp/
Dmitri Medvedev, speaking today:
"The existence of Ukraine is deadly for Ukrainians. And I am not at all referring only to the current state, the Bandera political regime. I am talking about any, absolutely any Ukraine.
No matter how much they aspire to the mythical European Union and NATO. When choosing between eternal war and inevitable death and life, the absolute majority of Ukrainians (except for a minimal number of sick nationalists) will eventually choose life. They will realize that life in a big common state, which they do not love much now, is better than death. Their death and the death of their loved ones. And the sooner Ukrainians realize this, the better."
For those in any doubt, Ukraine is fighting for its very existence against a fascist revanchist imperial invasion. The 'big common state' he refers to is the Russian Empire.
This has fallen off the radar a bit, but is anyone up on this...
Zelensky is giving the top general the boot - Valerii Zaluzhnyi.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/05/ukraine-leadership-change-reset-zelenskiy-replace-senior-officials
It seems a bit off as they are digging in well, and are facing a much more powerful army. But then commentators are saying there are off the field issues between them.
if sinn fein lose the working class in the south they are done
i posted in wrong thread by mistake dont get your knickers in a twist
Tucker Carlson is going to broadcast an interview with Putin.
Best quote I heard:
"I'm sure he'll ask Putin all about Bucha, murders of Russian journalists, assassination of Litvinenko, poisoning of Skripalis, destruction of Grozny, abduction of Ukrainian children, erasure of Ukrainian language and culture in temporarily occupied regions, Putin's affair with Alina Kabaeva, bombing of civilian targets in Ukraine, Prigozgin's death, SVR/GRU/FSB operations in the West, censorship of Internet in Russia, murder of Nemtsov, imprisonment of Kara-Murza and Evan Gershkovich...
"
Quote from: Dag Dog on February 06, 2024, 09:53:10 PMTucker Carlson is going to broadcast an interview with Putin.
Best quote I heard:
"I'm sure he'll ask Putin all about Bucha, murders of Russian journalists, assassination of Litvinenko, poisoning of Skripalis, destruction of Grozny, abduction of Ukrainian children, erasure of Ukrainian language and culture in temporarily occupied regions, Putin's affair with Alina Kabaeva, bombing of civilian targets in Ukraine, Prigozgin's death, SVR/GRU/FSB operations in the West, censorship of Internet in Russia, murder of Nemtsov, imprisonment of Kara-Murza and Evan Gershkovich...
"
whatever, it should still be an interesting interview. when does it drop?
Quote from: clarshack on February 07, 2024, 10:16:14 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on February 06, 2024, 09:53:10 PMTucker Carlson is going to broadcast an interview with Putin.
Best quote I heard:
"I'm sure he'll ask Putin all about Bucha, murders of Russian journalists, assassination of Litvinenko, poisoning of Skripalis, destruction of Grozny, abduction of Ukrainian children, erasure of Ukrainian language and culture in temporarily occupied regions, Putin's affair with Alina Kabaeva, bombing of civilian targets in Ukraine, Prigozgin's death, SVR/GRU/FSB operations in the West, censorship of Internet in Russia, murder of Nemtsov, imprisonment of Kara-Murza and Evan Gershkovich...
"
whatever, it should still be an interesting interview. when does it drop?
Yeah it'll be super interesting listening to Tucker Carlson allow Putin to spout his propaganda unchallenged for two whole hours, while sitting like a nodding dog. Asking nothing about any of the above or challenging anything.
As other actual journalists have pointed out, they've requested an interview with Putin but been denied. For obvious reasons. As Carlson has been chosen, for obvious reasons.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 10:43:20 AMQuote from: clarshack on February 07, 2024, 10:16:14 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on February 06, 2024, 09:53:10 PMTucker Carlson is going to broadcast an interview with Putin.
Best quote I heard:
"I'm sure he'll ask Putin all about Bucha, murders of Russian journalists, assassination of Litvinenko, poisoning of Skripalis, destruction of Grozny, abduction of Ukrainian children, erasure of Ukrainian language and culture in temporarily occupied regions, Putin's affair with Alina Kabaeva, bombing of civilian targets in Ukraine, Prigozgin's death, SVR/GRU/FSB operations in the West, censorship of Internet in Russia, murder of Nemtsov, imprisonment of Kara-Murza and Evan Gershkovich...
"
whatever, it should still be an interesting interview. when does it drop?
Yeah it'll be super interesting listening to Tucker Carlson allow Putin to spout his propaganda unchallenged for two whole hours, while sitting like a nodding dog. Asking nothing about any of the above or challenging anything.
As other actual journalists have pointed out, they've requested an interview with Putin but been denied. For obvious reasons. As Carlson has been chosen, for obvious reasons.
At least it will make a change from flat out Zelensky propaganda for the last 2 years.
Tankies in Ireland and beyond behave like Ukraine invaded Russia.
Quote from: clarshack on February 07, 2024, 10:52:34 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 10:43:20 AMQuote from: clarshack on February 07, 2024, 10:16:14 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on February 06, 2024, 09:53:10 PMTucker Carlson is going to broadcast an interview with Putin.
Best quote I heard:
"I'm sure he'll ask Putin all about Bucha, murders of Russian journalists, assassination of Litvinenko, poisoning of Skripalis, destruction of Grozny, abduction of Ukrainian children, erasure of Ukrainian language and culture in temporarily occupied regions, Putin's affair with Alina Kabaeva, bombing of civilian targets in Ukraine, Prigozgin's death, SVR/GRU/FSB operations in the West, censorship of Internet in Russia, murder of Nemtsov, imprisonment of Kara-Murza and Evan Gershkovich...
"
whatever, it should still be an interesting interview. when does it drop?
Yeah it'll be super interesting listening to Tucker Carlson allow Putin to spout his propaganda unchallenged for two whole hours, while sitting like a nodding dog. Asking nothing about any of the above or challenging anything.
As other actual journalists have pointed out, they've requested an interview with Putin but been denied. For obvious reasons. As Carlson has been chosen, for obvious reasons.
At least it will make a change from flat out Zelensky propaganda for the last 2 years.
Russia thought they'd roll over Ukraine in 3 days, so Zelensky is doing a good job rallying help to keep them at bay.
Quote from: Dag Dog on February 07, 2024, 10:55:37 AMQuote from: clarshack on February 07, 2024, 10:52:34 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 10:43:20 AMQuote from: clarshack on February 07, 2024, 10:16:14 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on February 06, 2024, 09:53:10 PMTucker Carlson is going to broadcast an interview with Putin.
Best quote I heard:
"I'm sure he'll ask Putin all about Bucha, murders of Russian journalists, assassination of Litvinenko, poisoning of Skripalis, destruction of Grozny, abduction of Ukrainian children, erasure of Ukrainian language and culture in temporarily occupied regions, Putin's affair with Alina Kabaeva, bombing of civilian targets in Ukraine, Prigozgin's death, SVR/GRU/FSB operations in the West, censorship of Internet in Russia, murder of Nemtsov, imprisonment of Kara-Murza and Evan Gershkovich...
"
whatever, it should still be an interesting interview. when does it drop?
Yeah it'll be super interesting listening to Tucker Carlson allow Putin to spout his propaganda unchallenged for two whole hours, while sitting like a nodding dog. Asking nothing about any of the above or challenging anything.
As other actual journalists have pointed out, they've requested an interview with Putin but been denied. For obvious reasons. As Carlson has been chosen, for obvious reasons.
At least it will make a change from flat out Zelensky propaganda for the last 2 years.
Russia thought they'd roll over Ukraine in 3 days, so Zelensky is doing a good job rallying help to keep them at bay.
That's pretty much what he does. 'Russia invaded us, we need your help, thank you, we still need your help. The invasion is ongoing' and he's doing a great job.
Clarshack finds that objectionable for reasons known only to him. Maybe he does think Ukraine invaded Russia, hmm?
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 11:04:01 AMThat's pretty much what he does. 'Russia invaded us, we need your help, thank you, we still need your help. The invasion is ongoing' and he's doing a great job.
Clarshack finds that objectionable for reasons known only to him. Maybe he does think Ukraine invaded Russia, hmm?
This is a bit like the "one side is a bad as the other" in the 6 counties. Russia keeps on invading Ukraine, so Zelensky keeps complaining about it, and some people seem to think that complaining is as bad as invading. You have to wonder about their moral framework.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 12:59:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 11:04:01 AMThat's pretty much what he does. 'Russia invaded us, we need your help, thank you, we still need your help. The invasion is ongoing' and he's doing a great job.
Clarshack finds that objectionable for reasons known only to him. Maybe he does think Ukraine invaded Russia, hmm?
This is a bit like the "one side is a bad as the other" in the 6 counties. Russia keeps on invading Ukraine, so Zelensky keeps complaining about it, and some people seem to think that complaining is as bad as invading. You have to wonder about their moral framework.
Yes, the 'both-siders' love to muddy the waters to suit their agenda.
Like people who say "The GAA and the Orange Order are as bad as each other".
alot of putting words in people mouths going on... if I am critical of Zelenskys support of Israel for example, is that ok? or is that a show of support for Russia.
I was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
I'm sure that he could get a Russian passport and head to Moscow instead of been trapped here.
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2024, 03:24:39 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
I'm sure that he could get a Russian passport and head to Moscow instead of been trapped here.
Pro-Russians who stick it out in Donbas will be well looked after if Putin wins.
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2024, 03:24:39 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
I'm sure that he could get a Russian passport and head to Moscow instead of been trapped here.
That is their longterm plan, they are early 30s and don't want to have children in Dublin. Want to have them in Russia.
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2024, 03:24:39 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
I'm sure that he could get a Russian passport and head to Moscow instead of been trapped here.
So is a form of ethical cleansing of these Ukrainians better/worse/the same as ethical cleansing of other Ukrainians?
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:29:56 PMQuote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2024, 03:24:39 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
I'm sure that he could get a Russian passport and head to Moscow instead of been trapped here.
That is their longterm plan, they are early 30s and don't want to have children in Dublin. Want to have them in Russia.
You should have told her he would be better off going to Russia now and joining the Russian army to help defeat Zelensky and the Ukrainian government.
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2024, 03:43:54 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:29:56 PMQuote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2024, 03:24:39 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
I'm sure that he could get a Russian passport and head to Moscow instead of been trapped here.
That is their longterm plan, they are early 30s and don't want to have children in Dublin. Want to have them in Russia.
You should have told her he would be better off going to Russia now and joining the Russian army to help defeat Zelensky and the Ukrainian government.
He's not physicality fit for it. Had surgery in Dublin for a health matter.
That sounds like the make up of this place..
Someone who doesn't like the country that they are living in but happy to stay there and complain about it ;D
All in a foreign language too🙄
€191 bn of Russian assets were seized by European authorities in 2022.
Interest of €4.4 bn was paid to Ukraine this year
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 07, 2024, 03:04:47 PMalot of putting words in people mouths going on... if I am critical of Zelenskys support of Israel for example, is that ok? or is that a show of support for Russia.
Carlson will just be spouting the same words he always has, just lies and propaganda.
Criticise Zelenskyy all you like, but ponder how he is apparently a pro-Israel Jew and also a super Nazi according to Russia. What a guy.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 06:20:11 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 07, 2024, 03:04:47 PMalot of putting words in people mouths going on... if I am critical of Zelenskys support of Israel for example, is that ok? or is that a show of support for Russia.
Carlson will just be spouting the same words he always has, just lies and propaganda.
Criticise Zelenskyy all you like, but ponder how he is apparently a pro-Israel Jew and also a super Nazi according to Russia. What a guy.
tucker is a tool, but not related to my point.
Supremacists flock together, plenty of Nazis support Israel, they just don't want Jews as neighbours so moving Jews to Israel works for Nazis now. (not a comments on Zelensky as a Nazi, just Nazis and zionists/supremacists are not mutually exclusive)
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
I actually made a few enquires from Ukrainian friends before replying to this post, one in Ireland, one in Poland and one in Czechia. None of them have had their passports cancelled for leaving Ukraine (one illegally) and in fact one pointed out that it would be illegal and against the Ukrainian constitution to do so.
Ukraine wants men of fighting age to return home. How can they do that with no passport?
One also pointed out that given how controversial Ukraines martial law policy of not allowing males of a certain age to leave the country, if Ukraine were cancelling their passports as a form of punishment, we would have most definitely heard about it from the usual quarters.
I think those who left without permission could find themselves in a quandary when their passports expire however. Doesn't sound as controversial or juicy as having your passport 'cancelled' though does it.
Quote from: Dag Dog on February 07, 2024, 03:26:39 PMQuote from: Cavan19 on February 07, 2024, 03:24:39 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
I'm sure that he could get a Russian passport and head to Moscow instead of been trapped here.
Pro-Russians who stick it out in Donbas will be well looked after if Putin wins.
Have to disagree with you here Dag Dog, they'll be treated like ordinary Russians in Russia. Like shit. Certainly treated better than those who refuse Russian passports in the occupied territory though, where life is being made unbearable.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 06:53:49 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
I don't begrudge her coming here to escape a war zone. Turns out Russia coming to rescue you is extremely hazardous to your health as the mass graves littering Ukraine's ruined cities will testify. Not to mention the uncounted dead in ruined residential buildings in Mariupol bulldozed and taken away to be dumped.
Her passport story doesn't add up though.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 07:00:39 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 06:53:49 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
I don't begrudge her coming here to escape a war zone. Turns out Russia coming to rescue you is extremely hazardous to your health as the mass graves littering Ukraine's ruined cities will testify. Not to mention the uncounted dead in ruined residential buildings in Mariupol bulldozed and taken away to be dumped.
Her passport story doesn't add up though.
I'm only telling you what she said. I might see her next week or the week after again so I'll probe further. Woman clearly had very strong views on the matter. Got very passionate when I questioned her.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 07:09:11 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 07:00:39 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 06:53:49 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
I don't begrudge her coming here to escape a war zone. Turns out Russia coming to rescue you is extremely hazardous to your health as the mass graves littering Ukraine's ruined cities will testify. Not to mention the uncounted dead in ruined residential buildings in Mariupol bulldozed and taken away to be dumped.
Her passport story doesn't add up though.
I'm only telling you what she said. I might see her next week or the week after again so I'll probe further. Woman clearly had very strong views on the matter. Got very passionate when I questioned her.
Zelensky is a Russian speaker, although he makes the effort to use Ukrainian nowadays, many Russian speakers do likewise given the actions of the Russians. But it is not as if he is some kind of mad anti-Russian.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 07:09:11 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 07:00:39 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 06:53:49 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
I don't begrudge her coming here to escape a war zone. Turns out Russia coming to rescue you is extremely hazardous to your health as the mass graves littering Ukraine's ruined cities will testify. Not to mention the uncounted dead in ruined residential buildings in Mariupol bulldozed and taken away to be dumped.
Her passport story doesn't add up though.
I'm only telling you what she said. I might see her next week or the week after again so I'll probe further. Woman clearly had very strong views on the matter. Got very passionate when I questioned her.
Yes, I get that, not shooting the messenger.
She might not like being probed on it, it is very personal information after all, but I'd be interested to hear how her husband was informed that the passport was cancelled.
Also did they travel to Russia to get out of Ukraine? The only other way for her husband to get out through a legal Ukrainian border would be bribery or sneaking out in some way (difficult but not impossible). In all these cases, the Ukrainian authorities wouldn't even know they had left the country so how to know whose passport to cancel?
I'm sure she is very passionate about the subject however her personal national affinity doesn't override Ukraine's internationally recognised border with Russia nor the treaties that Russia signed with Ukraine on the matter.
Those Ukrainian passports they both held were handy for getting to Ireland visa-free. Wonder how they'll like the Russian one.
Glad I found this again. Not all Russians had the blinkers on about what was really happening in the Donbas in 2014-15. Not surprisingly, this chap had to leave Russia in 2022. I'm sure that was his last appearance on that particular show as well.
From 2017 I believe:
https://x.com/natalkakyiv/status/1653184747911127051?s=46
Quote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 06:53:49 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
Ironically, that's what Paisley et al used to say about Catholics in the north.
Give yer head a wobble
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 08:54:41 PMGlad I found this again. Not all Russians had the blinkers on about what was really happening in the Donbas in 2014-15. Not surprisingly, this chap had to leave Russia in 2022. I'm sure that was his last appearance on that particular show as well.
From 2017 I believe:
https://x.com/natalkakyiv/status/1653184747911127051?s=46
From 03/2014
March for the peace and freedom in Moscow was one of the anti-war protests in Russia.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%88_%D0%B7%D0%B0_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%B8_%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%83_%282%29.jpg/1920px-%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%88_%D0%B7%D0%B0_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%B8_%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%83_%282%29.jpg)
Quote from: Franko on February 07, 2024, 09:06:43 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 06:53:49 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
Ironically, that's what Paisley et al used to say about Catholics in the north.
Give yer head a wobble
She is here under false pretences as a person driven out by Russians when she is supportive of this this is nothing to do with Catholics in the North, quite the opposite actually.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 09:16:22 PMQuote from: Franko on February 07, 2024, 09:06:43 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 06:53:49 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
Ironically, that's what Paisley et al used to say about Catholics in the north.
Give yer head a wobble
She is here under false pretences as a person driven out by Russians when she is supportive of this this is nothing to do with Catholics in the North, quite the opposite actually.
Did he say she was here as a refugee?
Quote from: Itchy on February 07, 2024, 09:19:37 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 09:16:22 PMQuote from: Franko on February 07, 2024, 09:06:43 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 06:53:49 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
Ironically, that's what Paisley et al used to say about Catholics in the north.
Give yer head a wobble
She is here under false pretences as a person driven out by Russians when she is supportive of this this is nothing to do with Catholics in the North, quite the opposite actually.
Did he say she was here as a refugee?
I did not indeed. She's working in Dublin, with a house etc.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 09:58:20 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 07, 2024, 09:19:37 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 09:16:22 PMQuote from: Franko on February 07, 2024, 09:06:43 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 06:53:49 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
Ironically, that's what Paisley et al used to say about Catholics in the north.
Give yer head a wobble
She is here under false pretences as a person driven out by Russians when she is supportive of this this is nothing to do with Catholics in the North, quite the opposite actually.
Did he say she was here as a refugee?
I did not indeed. She's working in Dublin, with a house etc.
"from near Donbas"
"leaving the country in wartime"
I think it's fair to assume she came here as a refugee.
In any case, visa free travel to Ireland for Ukrainians was created for the purpose of receiving refugees.
p.s. Ukrainians are allowed to work and rent a house as they see fit. They aren't required to live in hotels etc.
Has the Carlson Interview done anything to change anyone's view on Russia/Ukraine War?, Mainstream Media? or was this just a free reign for Putin to spout his own propaganda?
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-vladimir-putin-interview/
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 10:03:28 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 09:58:20 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 07, 2024, 09:19:37 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 09:16:22 PMQuote from: Franko on February 07, 2024, 09:06:43 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 06:53:49 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2024, 03:14:37 PMI was speaking to a Ukrainian living in Ireland the other day who absolutely detests Zelensky and the Ukrainian government She is from near the Donbas region, speaks Russian (only pigeon Ukrainian) and used the phrase "I am not pro Russian, I am Russian". Her gripes were that they are more culturally and societally to Russia than a Ukraine. Said they felt trapped in a country they didn't associate with and refused to acknowledge it 👀
She mentioned the Azov battalion as well.
Basically they are trapped here now because her husbands passport was cancelled for leaving the country in wartime.
I was suprised because we don't hear this point of view much but it was interesting to hear her point of view.
WTF is she doing here, should she not be in Russia? It takes up on sixth of the land on earth, there should be room for her there.
Ironically, that's what Paisley et al used to say about Catholics in the north.
Give yer head a wobble
She is here under false pretences as a person driven out by Russians when she is supportive of this this is nothing to do with Catholics in the North, quite the opposite actually.
Did he say she was here as a refugee?
I did not indeed. She's working in Dublin, with a house etc.
"from near Donbas"
"leaving the country in wartime"
I think it's fair to assume she came here as a refugee.
In any case, visa free travel to Ireland for Ukrainians was created for the purpose of receiving refugees.
p.s. Ukrainians are allowed to work and rent a house as they see fit. They aren't required to live in hotels etc.
Not only as they allowed to, they have a right to work and are expected to do the same as everyone else.
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on February 09, 2024, 09:49:11 AMHas the Carlson Interview done anything to change anyone's view on Russia/Ukraine War?, Mainstream Media? or was this just a free reign for Putin to spout his own propaganda?
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-vladimir-putin-interview/
Watched the first hour of this today. Putin didn't say much of anything that he hasn't spouted before.
It was amusing though to see the look of bewilderment on Carlson's face as Putin launched into a half hour pseudo history (fantasy) lesson at the start of the interview.
One take away of interest is that apparently it was the Poles who started WW2 by making Hitler invade them. Sounds familiar.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 10, 2024, 07:41:15 PMQuote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on February 09, 2024, 09:49:11 AMHas the Carlson Interview done anything to change anyone's view on Russia/Ukraine War?, Mainstream Media? or was this just a free reign for Putin to spout his own propaganda?
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-vladimir-putin-interview/
Watched the first hour of this today. Putin didn't say much of anything that he hasn't spouted before.
It was amusing though to see the look of bewilderment on Carlson's face as Putin launched into a half hour pseudo history (fantasy) lesson at the start of the interview.
One take away of interest is that apparently it was the Poles who started WW2 by making Hitler invade them. Sounds familiar.
And that's why Soviet Russia invaded the other half of Poland as per Nazi/USSR pact, killed a million Poles and made life hell for the rest.
Quote from: Main Street on February 10, 2024, 09:28:40 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 10, 2024, 07:41:15 PMQuote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on February 09, 2024, 09:49:11 AMHas the Carlson Interview done anything to change anyone's view on Russia/Ukraine War?, Mainstream Media? or was this just a free reign for Putin to spout his own propaganda?
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-vladimir-putin-interview/
Watched the first hour of this today. Putin didn't say much of anything that he hasn't spouted before.
It was amusing though to see the look of bewilderment on Carlson's face as Putin launched into a half hour pseudo history (fantasy) lesson at the start of the interview.
One take away of interest is that apparently it was the Poles who started WW2 by making Hitler invade them. Sounds familiar.
And that's why Soviet Russia invaded the other half of Poland as per Nazi/USSR pact, killed a million Poles and made life hell for the rest.
A point that any actual journalist or even the bloke from down the pub would have brought up but Carlson just sat there staring at him with that stupid constipated look on his face.
Missed the, we shot 10,000 polish soldiers in a certain forest when they invaded East Poland, then blamed the Nazis.
After sinking Russian corvette 'Ivanovets' just 13 days ago, Ukraine have followed up by sinking the large landing ship 'Cezar Kunikov'.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/14/looks-like-another-russian-landing-ship-just-blew-up/?sh=2379c49748e2#
BBC News - Russian opposition leader Navalny has died, prison service says
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68315943
Natural causes I'm sure
Quote from: bennydorano on February 16, 2024, 12:13:56 PMBBC News - Russian opposition leader Navalny has died, prison service says
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68315943
Natural causes I'm sure
First poisoned then incarcerated after a show trial, tortured mentally and physically, transferred to a jail north of the Arctic circle, held in total isolation and yet managed to be an intolerable thorn in the eyes of the Kremlin just by still being alive.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 10, 2024, 11:55:33 PMMissed the, we shot 10,000 polish soldiers in a certain forest when they invaded East Poland, then blamed the Nazis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
I'm amazed he lasted this long.
What does Tucker have to say?
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2024, 03:27:49 PMI'm amazed he lasted this long.
What does Tucker have to say?
"Flippin eck!", maybe?
Very sad news. Puting is like the reincarnation of Stalin
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2024, 03:27:49 PMI'm amazed he lasted this long.
What does Tucker have to say?
too busy being blown away by the use of coins in shopping trolleys
Quote from: J70 on February 16, 2024, 03:27:49 PMI'm amazed he lasted this long.
What does Tucker have to say?
Tucker is too overcome by the quality of Moscow's subways to make any comment.
navlny was no saint either isnt he a ultra nationalists
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2024, 03:39:42 PMVery sad news. Puting is like the reincarnation of Stalin
Putin is that alright, but what is Genocide Joe and the rest of the Zionist enablers in the west.
Their condemnation of Russia for the death of Alexei Navalny rings hollow and Putin knows it.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 16, 2024, 04:48:10 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 16, 2024, 03:39:42 PMVery sad news. Puting is like the reincarnation of Stalin
Putin is that alright, but what is Genocide Joe and the rest of the Zionist enablers in the west.
Their condemnation of Russia for the death of Alexei Navalny rings hollow and Putin knows it.
Navalny and Gaza are both linked to the Eastern front in WW2. Putin and Neanyahu are the same. Group trauma.
Quote from: Eire90 on February 16, 2024, 04:45:27 PMnavlny was no saint either isnt he a ultra nationalists
Thats an oft repeated Kremlin trope. Once upon a time he aligned his party with the ultras, then he dealigned his party and they went their own way.
No saint but he was a tough nut.
How casually Russians admit to war crimes, this is why Ukraine fights and will not give up their countrymen in occupied Ukraine.
Those westerners calling for a fake 'peace' (you know who you are) should hang their heads in shame.
https://x.com/natalkakyiv/status/1760154124958449971?s=46
The black and white world of TM
One side noble and good/The other despicable and bad
Only a child perceives war in this way. Personally I can't think of a war where there wasn't atrocities on both sides?
This is a US proxy war and Ukrainians are sadly paying a very heavy price.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 21, 2024, 09:45:43 AMThe black and white world of TM
One side noble and good/The other despicable and bad
Only a child perceives war in this way. Personally I can't think of a war where there wasn't atrocities on both sides?
This is a US proxy war and Ukrainians are sadly paying a very heavy price.
Ooh, the 'You know who you are' really touched a nerve there.
In the sad sad world of TheSkull1, Ukrainians and their lives, hopes and dreams and aspirations don't count. They don't even exist.
Nor do the Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians and all the others who have suffered for centuries under the Russians.
Russia, a fascist imperial dictatorship, invaded its peaceful sovereign neighbour and is attempting to erase it but it's all so complicated for Skull to understand.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 21, 2024, 09:45:43 AMThe black and white world of TM
One side noble and good/The other despicable and bad
Only a child perceives war in this way. Personally I can't think of a war where there wasn't atrocities on both sides?
This is a US proxy war and Ukrainians are sadly paying a very heavy price.
Same as most conflicts since 1945.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 21, 2024, 10:12:59 AMQuote from: theskull1 on February 21, 2024, 09:45:43 AMThe black and white world of TM
One side noble and good/The other despicable and bad
Only a child perceives war in this way. Personally I can't think of a war where there wasn't atrocities on both sides?
This is a US proxy war and Ukrainians are sadly paying a very heavy price.
Same as most conflicts since 1945.
'US proxy war' in terms of Ukraine is straight unadulterated Kremlin propaganda. Unsurprising lapped up by the usual suspects. Ukrainians don't even exist to you.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 21, 2024, 09:45:43 AMThe black and white world of TM
One side noble and good/The other despicable and bad
Only a child perceives war in this way. Personally I can't think of a war where there wasn't atrocities on both sides?
So this is the " both sides are as bad as each other" argument, the invaded are on a par with the invaders?
QuoteThis is a US proxy war
Ah yes, in the same way as the Windsor Protocol is just Brussels interfering and coercing the Irish people who actually did want a border on the island before those autocrats forced them to do otherwise.
QuoteQuote from: theskull1 on February 21, 2024, 09:45:43 AMThe black and white world of TM
One side noble and good/The other despicable and bad
Only a child perceives war in this way. Personally I can't think of a war where there wasn't atrocities on both sides?
So this is the " both sides are as bad as each other" argument, the invaded are on a par with the invaders?
Some on here do indeed need reminded who invaded who. And that was in 2014, let's not forget.
And if you think Russia gives a hoot about Russian speakers/ethnic Russians in Ukraine then I suggest you watch '21 Days in Mariupol'. If you can stomach it.
Russian military blogger 'Murz' who recently scathingly reported that at least 16k Russian soldiers died to take the ruins of Avdiivka has been suicided by Russia.
Who is next? Girkin? I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.
While the eyes of the world are on the horror in Gaza, let's not forget that Russia is continuing to inflict death and suffering on the citizens of Ukraine.
Odesa in particular (a Russian city, inhabited by Russians that need to be liberated, according to Russia) is being bombarded nightly by Iranian Shahed suicide drones. The civilian population are the target and sometimes mighty Russia and Iran score a huge success and get a hit. Like on Sunday when they murdered 12 people, 5 of whom were children:
4 month old Tymofiy
7 month old Lisa
3 year old Mark
11 year old Zlata
9 year old Sergiy
This little child went to bed on Saturday evening in his Batman pyjamas. He never woke up, crushed in his sleep. Hopefully he didn't suffer.
Warning: Graphic.
https://x.com/mykhailorohoza/status/1764415552494186628?s=46
I suggest you don't click on the Twitter link above. The image will break your heart, even if we're all numb with the constant images of war and death we see these days.
But while all our eyes are the terrible suffering in Gaza, don't forget what Russia is continuing to inflict on Ukraine, day in, day out, for over 2 years.
Massacre ongoing in Moscow as at least 4 gunmen attack a concert hall killing everything in sight. Roof is on fire.
I've put this in the Russia invades Ukraine thread as it won't be hard to guess who is going to get the blame for this, regardless of the truth.
Early days but it feels like something from Vladimir Putin's 1999 playbook with the apartment bombings, as a pretext to invading Chechnya and emerging as a war hero.
It's reminds me of Belsen all them yrs ago, Awful to see, I presume it cone out they some form of Ukraine extremists or possible a few in-house factions from roll over wars of yesteryear IE: Chechnya etc. Though I see it hard how any Ukrainians could get into Moscow. And if so why not a military target.
If this was a US proxy war, what Skull think here was, a UK proxy war over the years?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2024, 09:04:58 PMIt's reminds me of Belsen all them yrs ago, Awful to see, I presume it cone out they some form of Ukraine extremists or possible a few in-house factions from roll over wars of yesteryear IE: Chechnya etc. Though I see it hard how any Ukrainians could get into Moscow. And if so why not a military target.
Apparently a white van has been found in the parking lot with Ukrainian number plates (as if they could just drive around Moscow with UKR plates).
Reeks of false flag but too soon to be sure of anything.
Quote from: Emmett Greene on March 22, 2024, 09:14:41 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2024, 09:04:58 PMIt's reminds me of Belsen all them yrs ago, Awful to see, I presume it cone out they some form of Ukraine extremists or possible a few in-house factions from roll over wars of yesteryear IE: Chechnya etc. Though I see it hard how any Ukrainians could get into Moscow. And if so why not a military target.
Apparently a white van has been found in the parking lot with Ukrainian number plates (as if they could just drive around Moscow with UKR plates).
Reeks of false flag but too soon to be sure of anything.
They can't even drive round Cavan without people putting photos of them on twitter crying about VRT and insurance ;D
Quote from: Emmett Greene on March 22, 2024, 09:14:41 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2024, 09:04:58 PMIt's reminds me of Belsen all them yrs ago, Awful to see, I presume it cone out they some form of Ukraine extremists or possible a few in-house factions from roll over wars of yesteryear IE: Chechnya etc. Though I see it hard how any Ukrainians could get into Moscow. And if so why not a military target.
Apparently a white van has been found in the parking lot with Ukrainian number plates (as if they could just drive around Moscow with UKR plates).
Reeks of false flag but too soon to be sure of anything.
very suspect, if you were going to plant a bomb then you'd pick up an oul van with local plates. The problem is who is going to investigate to establish the truth?
Islamic state have claimed it
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2024, 09:18:52 PMQuote from: Emmett Greene on March 22, 2024, 09:14:41 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2024, 09:04:58 PMIt's reminds me of Belsen all them yrs ago, Awful to see, I presume it cone out they some form of Ukraine extremists or possible a few in-house factions from roll over wars of yesteryear IE: Chechnya etc. Though I see it hard how any Ukrainians could get into Moscow. And if so why not a military target.
Apparently a white van has been found in the parking lot with Ukrainian number plates (as if they could just drive around Moscow with UKR plates).
Reeks of false flag but too soon to be sure of anything.
very suspect, if you were going to plant a bomb then you'd pick up an oul van with local plates. The problem is who is going to investigate to establish the truth?
Uncle Sam will be drafted in to investigate after their Sterling work uncovering the Nord Stream pipeline root cause, evidence of beheaded babies, microwaved babies and mass gang rape in Gaza. The RUC would have been best placed but unavailable after disbanding. Need outside help as Russians are untrustworthy.
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 08:20:32 AMQuote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2024, 09:18:52 PMQuote from: Emmett Greene on March 22, 2024, 09:14:41 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2024, 09:04:58 PMIt's reminds me of Belsen all them yrs ago, Awful to see, I presume it cone out they some form of Ukraine extremists or possible a few in-house factions from roll over wars of yesteryear IE: Chechnya etc. Though I see it hard how any Ukrainians could get into Moscow. And if so why not a military target.
Apparently a white van has been found in the parking lot with Ukrainian number plates (as if they could just drive around Moscow with UKR plates).
Reeks of false flag but too soon to be sure of anything.
very suspect, if you were going to plant a bomb then you'd pick up an oul van with local plates. The problem is who is going to investigate to establish the truth?
Uncle Sam will be drafted in to investigate after their Sterling work uncovering the Nord Stream pipeline root cause, evidence of beheaded babies, microwaved babies and mass gang rape in Gaza. The RUC would have been best placed but unavailable after disbanding. Need outside help as Russians are untrustworthy.
Don't criticise Russia cos the RUC didn't investigate the Glenanne Gang properly. Hmmmm ookaaay.
Quote from: Emmett Greene on March 23, 2024, 08:58:25 AMQuote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 08:20:32 AMQuote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2024, 09:18:52 PMQuote from: Emmett Greene on March 22, 2024, 09:14:41 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2024, 09:04:58 PMIt's reminds me of Belsen all them yrs ago, Awful to see, I presume it cone out they some form of Ukraine extremists or possible a few in-house factions from roll over wars of yesteryear IE: Chechnya etc. Though I see it hard how any Ukrainians could get into Moscow. And if so why not a military target.
Apparently a white van has been found in the parking lot with Ukrainian number plates (as if they could just drive around Moscow with UKR plates).
Reeks of false flag but too soon to be sure of anything.
very suspect, if you were going to plant a bomb then you'd pick up an oul van with local plates. The problem is who is going to investigate to establish the truth?
Uncle Sam will be drafted in to investigate after their Sterling work uncovering the Nord Stream pipeline root cause, evidence of beheaded babies, microwaved babies and mass gang rape in Gaza. The RUC would have been best placed but unavailable after disbanding. Need outside help as Russians are untrustworthy.
Don't criticise Russia cos the RUC didn't investigate the Glenanne Gang properly. Hmmmm ookaaay.
I'm sorry if you don't possess the brains to understand a simple post
First impression was that it's straight out the chapters in 'Killer in the Kremlin', an account on the 1999 apartment bombings in Moscow and more.
(https://cdn.penguin.co.uk/dam-assets/books/9781804991206/9781804991206-jacket-large.jpg)
but now I read some bizarre stuff on CBS News: US informed Russia of pending terror attack under "Duty to Inform""A U.S. official tells CBS News the U.S. has intelligence confirming the Islamic State's claims of responsibility, and that they have no reason to doubt those claims.
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 11:02:55 AMQuote from: Emmett Greene on March 23, 2024, 08:58:25 AMQuote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 08:20:32 AMQuote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2024, 09:18:52 PMQuote from: Emmett Greene on March 22, 2024, 09:14:41 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2024, 09:04:58 PMIt's reminds me of Belsen all them yrs ago, Awful to see, I presume it cone out they some form of Ukraine extremists or possible a few in-house factions from roll over wars of yesteryear IE: Chechnya etc. Though I see it hard how any Ukrainians could get into Moscow. And if so why not a military target.
Apparently a white van has been found in the parking lot with Ukrainian number plates (as if they could just drive around Moscow with UKR plates).
Reeks of false flag but too soon to be sure of anything.
very suspect, if you were going to plant a bomb then you'd pick up an oul van with local plates. The problem is who is going to investigate to establish the truth?
Uncle Sam will be drafted in to investigate after their Sterling work uncovering the Nord Stream pipeline root cause, evidence of beheaded babies, microwaved babies and mass gang rape in Gaza. The RUC would have been best placed but unavailable after disbanding. Need outside help as Russians are untrustworthy.
Don't criticise Russia cos the RUC didn't investigate the Glenanne Gang properly. Hmmmm ookaaay.
I'm sorry if you don't possess the brains to understand a simple post
I understand that we're unlikely to find you over on the British State Collusion thread deflecting with what about the Russians. Which is what you're doing really isn't it.
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2024, 11:29:25 AMFirst impression was that it's straight out the chapters in 'Killer in the Kremlin', an account on the 1999 apartment bombings in Moscow and more.
(https://cdn.penguin.co.uk/dam-assets/books/9781804991206/9781804991206-jacket-large.jpg)
but now I read some bizarre stuff on CBS News: US informed Russia of pending terror attack under "Duty to Inform""A U.S. official tells CBS News the U.S. has intelligence confirming the Islamic State's claims of responsibility, and that they have no reason to doubt those claims.
John Sweeney's reporting from Chechnya was excellent. Russian crimes against humanity are nothing new. They've done it all before, including arranging humanitarian corridors for civilians to evacuate and then bombing them. Deliberate cruelty to civilians is a part of Russia warfare doctrine.
EG the return of previously (at least 2x) banned poster...
Not much concern shown for the 100 plus innocent victims. Are there calls from international leaders to wait for an internal investigation to determine the outcome or is that reserved for one state only.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 23, 2024, 12:57:16 PMEG the return of previously (at least 2x) banned poster...
Not much concern shown for the 100 plus innocent victims. Are there calls from international leaders to wait for an internal investigation to determine the outcome or is that reserved for one state only.
Are you addressing me with this?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 23, 2024, 12:57:16 PMEG the return of previously (at least 2x) banned poster...
Not much concern shown for the 100 plus innocent victims. Are there calls from international leaders to wait for an internal investigation to determine the outcome or is that reserved for one state only.
Sid Waddell?
Anyway.. regardless of who is behind this attack, watch the Kremlin invent some tenuous link to Ukraine. It's already happening.
Quote from: Emmett Greene on March 23, 2024, 01:17:11 PMAnyway.. regardless of who is behind this attack, watch the Kremlin invent some tenuous link to Ukraine. It's already happening.
You are right, they will do that. Just like the gasline explosion was tenuously linked to Russia which is also bullshit.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 23, 2024, 01:11:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 23, 2024, 12:57:16 PMEG the return of previously (at least 2x) banned poster...
Not much concern shown for the 100 plus innocent victims. Are there calls from international leaders to wait for an internal investigation to determine the outcome or is that reserved for one state only.
Sid Waddell?
That was a few user-names ago. He's been back (and banned) more recently.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 23, 2024, 09:06:19 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 23, 2024, 01:11:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 23, 2024, 12:57:16 PMEG the return of previously (at least 2x) banned poster...
Not much concern shown for the 100 plus innocent victims. Are there calls from international leaders to wait for an internal investigation to determine the outcome or is that reserved for one state only.
Sid Waddell?
That was a few user-names ago. He's been back (and banned) more recently.
Who was it recently? Tommy Mullan? Hopefully because that guy was seriously annoying.
Yeah, that was him. He said it wasn't, but the stylistic similarities, and the threads he spent time on (and didn't) all pointed that way.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 23, 2024, 09:21:18 PMYeah, that was him. He said it wasn't, but the stylistic similarities, and the threads he spent time on (and didn't) all pointed that way.
Clear as day that person is linked to one of the many NGO's in the South.
What or who are these NGOs that a lot of people are complaining about?
The GAA?
FAI?
Credit Unions?
??
Quote from: Rossfan on March 24, 2024, 08:43:10 AMWhat or who are these NGOs that a lot of people are complaining about?
The GAA?
FAI?
Credit Unions?
??
Yeah, right. Acting stupid, are we?
It is unlikely to have been a Russian false flag operation because too much information has already emerged about the attackers, which makes it difficult for Putin to pin it on Ukraine.
A staged Russian attack would have had a set of "perpetrators" apprehended with strong links to Ukraine.
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 09:02:16 PMQuote from: Emmett Greene on March 23, 2024, 01:17:11 PMAnyway.. regardless of who is behind this attack, watch the Kremlin invent some tenuous link to Ukraine. It's already happening.
You are right, they will do that. Just like the gasline explosion was tenuously linked to Russia which is also bullshit.
False equivalent, some pipeline sabotage versus mass murder of civilians.
In any event Russia had previous form recent enough with gas pipeline sabotage, just as the Kremlin had plenty of form with mass murder of its own citizens.
AMAQ news (traditionally linked to ISIS) report on claims that the 4 man unit are very much alive.
The four people who killed over 170 Russians yesterday in a shopping mall in Moscow are doing fine.
While Russians show fake arrests near the border with Ukraine, the (allegedly) real commando is already thinking about the next target.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJW7ayHXcAAVBLQ?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: Main Street on March 24, 2024, 03:05:20 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 09:02:16 PMQuote from: Emmett Greene on March 23, 2024, 01:17:11 PMAnyway.. regardless of who is behind this attack, watch the Kremlin invent some tenuous link to Ukraine. It's already happening.
You are right, they will do that. Just like the gasline explosion was tenuously linked to Russia which is also bullshit.
False equivalent, some pipeline sabotage versus mass murder of civilians.
In any event Russia had previous form recent enough with gas pipeline sabotage, just as the Kremlin had plenty of form with mass murder of its own citizens.
The equivalence was between the lies of governments which is not at all false.
Quote from: Main Street on March 24, 2024, 04:47:05 PMAMAQ news (traditionally linked to ISIS) report on claims that the 4 man unit are very much alive.
The four people who killed over 170 Russians yesterday in a shopping mall in Moscow are doing fine.
While Russians show fake arrests near the border with Ukraine, the (allegedly) real commando is already thinking about the next target.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJW7ayHXcAAVBLQ?format=jpg&name=large)
Main Street in terms of providing reliable information you have ISIS above Russia? No judgement, just a genuine question
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 24, 2024, 05:09:21 PMQuote from: Main Street on March 24, 2024, 04:47:05 PMAMAQ news (traditionally linked to ISIS) report on claims that the 4 man unit are very much alive.
The four people who killed over 170 Russians yesterday in a shopping mall in Moscow are doing fine.
While Russians show fake arrests near the border with Ukraine, the (allegedly) real commando is already thinking about the next target.
Main Street in terms of providing reliable information you have ISIS above Russia? No judgement, just a genuine question
What is your question? The Kremlin lies about everything, all of the time since inception.I offered a link to what AMAQ reported who have a reliable record of being accurate re ISIS stuff. I inserted "(allegedly)", perhaps you do not understand what alleged means?
Russia is a terrorist state.
(https://preview.redd.it/uzjacyc70xj61.jpg?auto=webp&s=1f348ccab10b41e5f31d635f66dad703521745a2)
Quote from: Main Street on March 25, 2024, 12:30:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 24, 2024, 05:09:21 PMQuote from: Main Street on March 24, 2024, 04:47:05 PMAMAQ news (traditionally linked to ISIS) report on claims that the 4 man unit are very much alive.
The four people who killed over 170 Russians yesterday in a shopping mall in Moscow are doing fine.
While Russians show fake arrests near the border with Ukraine, the (allegedly) real commando is already thinking about the next target.
Main Street in terms of providing reliable information you have ISIS above Russia? No judgement, just a genuine question
What is your question? The Kremlin lies about everything, all of the time since inception.I offered a link to what AMAQ reported who have a reliable record of being accurate re ISIS stuff. I inserted "(allegedly)", perhaps you do not understand what alleged means?
Russia is a terrorist state.
(https://preview.redd.it/uzjacyc70xj61.jpg?auto=webp&s=1f348ccab10b41e5f31d635f66dad703521745a2)
I have a couple of questions now. One, is ISIS a more reliable news source than Russia in your opinion?
Russia is a terrorist state, what is ISIS? Israel? America, US, UK, etc.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 25, 2024, 07:51:22 AMI very a couple of questions now. One, is ISIS a more reliable news source than Russia in your opinion?
Russia is a terrorist state, what is ISIS? Israel? America, US, UK, etc.
Exactly. And they all lie.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 25, 2024, 07:51:22 AMQuote from: Main Street on March 25, 2024, 12:30:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 24, 2024, 05:09:21 PMQuote from: Main Street on March 24, 2024, 04:47:05 PMAMAQ news (traditionally linked to ISIS) report on claims that the 4 man unit are very much alive.
The four people who killed over 170 Russians yesterday in a shopping mall in Moscow are doing fine.
While Russians show fake arrests near the border with Ukraine, the (allegedly) real commando is already thinking about the next target.
Main Street in terms of providing reliable information you have ISIS above Russia? No judgement, just a genuine question
What is your question? The Kremlin lies about everything, all of the time since inception.I offered a link to what AMAQ reported who have a reliable record of being accurate re ISIS stuff. I inserted "(allegedly)", perhaps you do not understand what alleged means?
Russia is a terrorist state.
I have a couple of questions now. One, is ISIS a more reliable news source than Russia in your opinion?
Russia is a terrorist state, what is ISIS? Israel? America, US, UK, etc.
Whatabout whatabout, same old Kremlin spiel, you're a terrorist state therefore don't comment on our 100 year reign of terror inside Russia and inside the previously occupied nations of eastern Europe.
Why don't you just apply same level of scrutiny to Russia's imperialism as you do to US war mongering The USA & UK lied through their backsides about Iraq, who's disputing that? What's your point, that Russia can therefore invade Ukraine and attempt to destroy a sovereign nation because that's the way of the world?
Russia is a mafia mob sadistic terrorist state, there is no communist party anymore the KGB have taken over total control.
.
Timothy Snyder blog
Moscow Terror A Chronology that Might Help Predict
1. US warns that Russia will invade Ukraine. General disbelief, daily Russian mockery. (December 3 2021-February 24 2022)
2. Russia invades Ukraine, kills tens of thousands of people, kidnaps tens of thousands of children, commits other ongoing war crimes (February 24 2022-present)
3. Russia blames US for Russia's invasion of Ukraine (March 2022-present)
4. US warns of terror attack in Moscow. Putin denies any risk and mocks the United States. (March 7 and March 19 2024).
5. Terror attack near Moscow, ISIS takes responsibility, Russia meanwhile kills Ukrainian citizens with drones and missiles as it has for more than two years. (today, March 22 2024)
6. Russia's security apparatus, focused on bringing carnage to Ukraine, has failed in Moscow. Russia's leaders, focused on demonizing the US, did not protect Russians. What next? Where to direct the blame?
7. It would not be very surprising if the Kremlin blames Ukraine and the United States for terror in Moscow and uses the Moscow attack to justify continuing and future atrocities in Ukraine.
There certainly is scope for some opposition figure in Russia to say, wtf are we bombing Orthodox churches in Ukraine while these loonies are allowed attack although the US warned of this a fortnight ago.
Quote from: Main Street on March 25, 2024, 11:53:02 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 25, 2024, 07:51:22 AMQuote from: Main Street on March 25, 2024, 12:30:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 24, 2024, 05:09:21 PMQuote from: Main Street on March 24, 2024, 04:47:05 PMAMAQ news (traditionally linked to ISIS) report on claims that the 4 man unit are very much alive.
The four people who killed over 170 Russians yesterday in a shopping mall in Moscow are doing fine.
While Russians show fake arrests near the border with Ukraine, the (allegedly) real commando is already thinking about the next target.
Main Street in terms of providing reliable information you have ISIS above Russia? No judgement, just a genuine question
What is your question? The Kremlin lies about everything, all of the time since inception.I offered a link to what AMAQ reported who have a reliable record of being accurate re ISIS stuff. I inserted "(allegedly)", perhaps you do not understand what alleged means?
Russia is a terrorist state.
I have a couple of questions now. One, is ISIS a more reliable news source than Russia in your opinion?
Russia is a terrorist state, what is ISIS? Israel? America, US, UK, etc.
Whatabout whatabout, same old Kremlin spiel, you're a terrorist state therefore don't comment on our 100 year reign of terror inside Russia and inside the previously occupied nations of eastern Europe.
Why don't you just apply same level of scrutiny to Russia's imperialism as you do to US war mongering The USA & UK lied through their backsides about Iraq, who's disputing that? What's your point, that Russia can therefore invade Ukraine and attempt to destroy a sovereign nation because that's the way of the world?
Russia is a mafia mob sadistic terrorist state, there is no communist party anymore the KGB have taken over total control.
.
you are putting loads of words in my mouth there... nowhere have I even hinted at anything you suggested.
It was two simple questions. Still not answered if you have ISIS as more reliable than Russia for information.
As people continually say Russia don't need a reason to carry out the attacks it does, its just an evil terrorist state, kgb run, sadistic mob etc. yet then there is speculation on false flags etc. and they are trying to create a narrative for something..
I hold them all to the same standard or try to but that isn't the same for those countries that can prevent a genocide for example, they chose to actively support it.
You read about russia have set this up to try and justify further attacks on ukraine. They have never needed justification before so why would they start now?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 25, 2024, 02:20:16 PMIt was two simple questions. Still not answered if you have ISIS as more reliable than Russia for information.
As people continually say Russia don't need a reason to carry out the attacks it does, its just an evil terrorist state, kgb run, sadistic mob etc. yet then there is speculation on false flags etc. and they are trying to create a narrative for something..
I hold them all to the same standard or try to but that isn't the same for those countries that can prevent a genocide for example, they chose to actively support it.
If Russia had not started blathering about Ukraine, who had nothing to do with it, then this false flag thing would not have arisen.
Putin ran the war in Ukraine to distract from the state of the economy and present himself as a strongman.
Then he gets blindsided by Tajiks. You couldn't make it up.
Show on bbc2 there about Ukraine front line. Tough watch, hard going out there. be a understatement.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 25, 2024, 02:20:16 PMQuote from: Main Street on March 25, 2024, 11:53:02 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 25, 2024, 07:51:22 AMQuote from: Main Street on March 25, 2024, 12:30:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 24, 2024, 05:09:21 PMQuote from: Main Street on March 24, 2024, 04:47:05 PMAMAQ news (traditionally linked to ISIS) report on claims that the 4 man unit are very much alive.
The four people who killed over 170 Russians yesterday in a shopping mall in Moscow are doing fine.
While Russians show fake arrests near the border with Ukraine, the (allegedly) real commando is already thinking about the next target.
Main Street in terms of providing reliable information you have ISIS above Russia? No judgement, just a genuine question
What is your question? The Kremlin lies about everything, all of the time since inception.I offered a link to what AMAQ reported who have a reliable record of being accurate re ISIS stuff. I inserted "(allegedly)", perhaps you do not understand what alleged means?
Russia is a terrorist state.
I have a couple of questions now. One, is ISIS a more reliable news source than Russia in your opinion?
Russia is a terrorist state, what is ISIS? Israel? America, US, UK, etc.
Whatabout whatabout, same old Kremlin spiel, you're a terrorist state therefore don't comment on our 100 year reign of terror inside Russia and inside the previously occupied nations of eastern Europe.
Why don't you just apply same level of scrutiny to Russia's imperialism as you do to US war mongering The USA & UK lied through their backsides about Iraq, who's disputing that? What's your point, that Russia can therefore invade Ukraine and attempt to destroy a sovereign nation because that's the way of the world?
Russia is a mafia mob sadistic terrorist state, there is no communist party anymore the KGB have taken over total control.
.
you are putting loads of words in my mouth there... nowhere have I even hinted at anything you suggested.
It was two simple questions. Still not answered if you have ISIS as more reliable than Russia for information.
As people continually say Russia don't need a reason to carry out the attacks it does, its just an evil terrorist state, kgb run, sadistic mob etc. yet then there is speculation on false flags etc. and they are trying to create a narrative for something..
I hold them all to the same standard or try to but that isn't the same for those countries that can prevent a genocide for example, they chose to actively support it.
It's an inane question to pose, who is the most reliable source, ISIS or Russia? I don't know about ISIS's reliability re their propaganda
however, Russia is reliably the World's most effective with propaganda and lying.
For the past 100 years the Kremlin have lying and propaganda down to an art form. There is nothing on planet earth that comes close.The resources devoted to the KGB and propaganda are enormous by any standard.
Re the war against Ukraine, it's the simple ploys that work the best, such as ascribing their own traits to the opponent.
eg "You are the Nazis" "You are genocidal" "You are the rapists"
Tim Snyder terms this "schizoid-fascism" to describe actual fascists who call their enemies fascists.
The Kremlin wages a genocidal war against a democratic nation with a Jewish President and calls the victims Nazis. How to explain away this absurdity? As Hitler recommended, tell a lie that´s just too big and outrageous to be resisted. Lavrov on Italian tv then repeated the canard that "Hitler was part-Jewish", therefore "Jews are the worst anti-Semites".
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 25, 2024, 09:49:39 PMShow on bbc2 there about Ukraine front line. Tough watch, hard going out there. be a understatement.
I didn't see this one. But these are usually filmed from the Ukrainian side, the Russian side is much worse where you get ordered to attack in a golf cart and a drone will remove you from existence before you can even reach the front line,
I think other countries are/have an equal ability at lying and propaganda and actually think they are better at it than the Russians. Russian propaganda seems very ineffective in that the whole western world doesn't believe a word they say.
Having a Jewish president doesn't mean there isn't Nazis, look at Israeli actions. there is plenty of evidence of Nazis in Ukraine, the avoz battalion, plenty of articles from 2014 about them. to be clear that doesn't justify anything Russia has done but I know questioning anything on this topic other than war is great, ans more weapons for ukraine, gets labeled as kremlin spiel.
Do you remember that time the twin towers were attacked and America invaded Afghanistan & Iraq and tried to link the three incidents. Russia is just a bit shit at their lies. When Donald gets elected he will help them to improve.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 26, 2024, 01:08:40 PMI think other countries are/have an equal ability at lying and propaganda and actually think they are better at it than the Russians. Russian propaganda seems very ineffective in that the whole western world doesn't believe a word they say.
Having a Jewish president doesn't mean there isn't Nazis, look at Israeli actions. there is plenty of evidence of Nazis in Ukraine, the avoz battalion, plenty of articles from 2014 about them. to be clear that doesn't justify anything Russia has done but I know questioning anything on this topic other than war is great, ans more weapons for ukraine, gets labeled as kremlin spiel.
No, not the whole world ::)
How many Kremlin sourced narratives are out there around the war against Ukraine?
I´ve lost count, even the useful idiots can't keep up with the Kremlin's ability to shift, many of them in the west are still on about NATO expansiveness as being the cause when even Putin doesn't talk about that one any longer to the West, perhaps humiliated by the NATO membership of Finland and Sweden and the Kremlin ability re their threats, reduced to the level of a barking dog.
The point of all those Kremlin narratives is that each one gains traction among some group or other,
like your self and others falling for this baloney canard.
Quote"there is plenty of evidence of Nazis in Ukraine, the Azov battalion, plenty of articles from 2014 about them. to be clear that doesn't justify anything Russia"
The Azov battalion with nazi symbols existed in 2014, a small faction in the UKR army and now does not exist in any shape or form as a far right battalion. The far right political parties did not gain any seats in the free and fair 2014 onward elections after the ousting of the pro Russian government.
Nazis in Ukraine!!! what a load of Kremlin dung.
As for yourself :D
(https://i.ibb.co/gM0XF7n/ezgif-com-added-text-5.gif)
Hell there Nazis in the UK and USA, probably more than Ukraine, when we blaming them. Just like the USA invading Iraq, Russia to blame here, nobody else.
We still giving it to England about the famine 150 plus yrs ago. Russia was the partial cause along with a drought, of a severe 7year famine in Ukraine earlier 1920's. Its no wonder there bad blood there, our relation with the UK past 50yrs a prime example.
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2024, 02:51:49 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 26, 2024, 01:08:40 PMI think other countries are/have an equal ability at lying and propaganda and actually think they are better at it than the Russians. Russian propaganda seems very ineffective in that the whole western world doesn't believe a word they say.
Having a Jewish president doesn't mean there isn't Nazis, look at Israeli actions. there is plenty of evidence of Nazis in Ukraine, the avoz battalion, plenty of articles from 2014 about them. to be clear that doesn't justify anything Russia has done but I know questioning anything on this topic other than war is great, ans more weapons for ukraine, gets labeled as kremlin spiel.
No, not the whole world ::)
How many Kremlin sourced narratives are out there around the war against Ukraine?
I´ve lost count, even the useful idiots can't keep up with the Kremlin's ability to shift, many of them in the west are still on about NATO expansiveness as being the cause when even Putin doesn't talk about that one any longer to the West, perhaps humiliated by the NATO membership of Finland and Sweden and the Kremlin ability re their threats, reduced to the level of a barking dog.
The point of all those Kremlin narratives is that each one gains traction among some group or other,
like your self and others falling for this baloney canard.
Quote"there is plenty of evidence of Nazis in Ukraine, the Azov battalion, plenty of articles from 2014 about them. to be clear that doesn't justify anything Russia"
The Azov battalion with nazi symbols existed in 2014, a small faction in the UKR army and now does not exist in any shape or form as a far right battalion. The far right political parties did not gain any seats in the free and fair 2014 onward elections after the ousting of the pro Russian government.
Nazis in Ukraine!!! what a load of Kremlin dung.
As for yourself :D
(https://i.ibb.co/gM0XF7n/ezgif-com-added-text-5.gif)
shifting goalposts MS. I asked a question, you felt it inane but since asking the question you have ranted about all sorts of stuff which I haven't raised or is relevant and fire out labels like useful idiot and kremlin spiel.
yes, not the whole world. Russians have a very different viewpoint and some African countries/South American and Asia countries have too.
the justification russia provides for the invasion of Ukraine don't matter , it should never have happened and once it did all efforts needed to be made to end the occupation, I think through peaceful means not more war... 2 years later and thousands dead is still not enough for some who want more war...
As for Nazis in Ukraine, they have been Nazis there a long time, thousands of Jews murdered in Ww2 in Ukraine. those who committed those murders have been celebrated in recent years. To claim there is no Nazis and it is kremlin dung is wrong. There are Nazis probably in every country, eastern europe/russia appear to have a higher %. that doesnt make it a credible justification,
Svoboda party
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 26, 2024, 05:30:02 PMAs for Nazis in Ukraine, they have been Nazis there a long time, thousands of Jews murdered in Ww2 in Ukraine. those who committed those murders have been celebrated in recent years. To claim there is no Nazis and it is kremlin dung is wrong. There are Nazis probably in every country, eastern europe/russia appear to have a higher %. that doesnt make it a credible justification,
Of course there are Nazis in every country, but elections show that there are few in most places, including Ukraine. You cannot invade a place on the basis that there might be one Nazi there.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2024, 05:47:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 26, 2024, 05:30:02 PMAs for Nazis in Ukraine, they have been Nazis there a long time, thousands of Jews murdered in Ww2 in Ukraine. those who committed those murders have been celebrated in recent years. To claim there is no Nazis and it is kremlin dung is wrong. There are Nazis probably in every country, eastern europe/russia appear to have a higher %. that doesnt make it a credible justification,
Of course there are Nazis in every country, but elections show that there are few in most places, including Ukraine. You cannot invade a place on the basis that there might be one Nazi there.
no one invaded anyone for one Nazi.
Netherlands, Poland, Swiss, Serbia, Hungary, Finland, Italy, Sweden, Spain, Israel all to some level have or had recent far right parties in government. There is a shift to the right across Europe.
The NATO expansion and sorting out the 'Nazi' problem were never Russia's main reasons for invading though. It's a talking point thrown out as a distraction and unfortunately amplified by Putin sympathisers in the West, even in Ireland.
It's just an old fashioned land grab and because Putin took Ukrainian territory so easily in 2014, he thought his 2022 special military operation would be straightforward too.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 26, 2024, 06:21:45 PMThe NATO expansion and sorting out the 'Nazi' problem were never Russia's main reasons for invading though. It's a talking point thrown out as a distraction and unfortunately amplified by Putin sympathisers in the West, even in Ireland.
It's just an old fashioned land grab and because Putin took Ukrainian territory so easily in 2014, he thought his 2022 special military operation would be straightforward too.
Exactly, a land grab. Everything else is just an excuse.
Yip, that's about the height of it.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 26, 2024, 06:19:21 PMQuote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2024, 05:47:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 26, 2024, 05:30:02 PMAs for Nazis in Ukraine, they have been Nazis there a long time, thousands of Jews murdered in Ww2 in Ukraine. those who committed those murders have been celebrated in recent years. To claim there is no Nazis and it is kremlin dung is wrong. There are Nazis probably in every country, eastern europe/russia appear to have a higher %. that doesnt make it a credible justification,
Of course there are Nazis in every country, but elections show that there are few in most places, including Ukraine. You cannot invade a place on the basis that there might be one Nazi there.
no one invaded anyone for one Nazi.
Netherlands, Poland, Swiss, Serbia, Hungary, Finland, Italy, Sweden, Spain, Israel all to some level have or had recent far right parties in government. There is a shift to the right across Europe.
Since its transition to democracy, which far right party has been in government in Spain?
Quote from: gallsman on March 28, 2024, 01:14:32 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 26, 2024, 06:19:21 PMQuote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2024, 05:47:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 26, 2024, 05:30:02 PMAs for Nazis in Ukraine, they have been Nazis there a long time, thousands of Jews murdered in Ww2 in Ukraine. those who committed those murders have been celebrated in recent years. To claim there is no Nazis and it is kremlin dung is wrong. There are Nazis probably in every country, eastern europe/russia appear to have a higher %. that doesnt make it a credible justification,
Of course there are Nazis in every country, but elections show that there are few in most places, including Ukraine. You cannot invade a place on the basis that there might be one Nazi there.
no one invaded anyone for one Nazi.
Netherlands, Poland, Swiss, Serbia, Hungary, Finland, Italy, Sweden, Spain, Israel all to some level have or had recent far right parties in government. There is a shift to the right across Europe.
Since its transition to democracy, which far right party has been in government in Spain?
Vox party at regional government level.
That's not "in government in Spain". That's like saying the TUV has been in government in Belfast because it's had a couple of councillors.
Quote from: gallsman on March 28, 2024, 01:28:49 PMThat's not "in government in Spain". That's like saying the TUV has been in government in Belfast because it's had a couple of councillors.
to some level have or had recent far right parties in government.
I structured the sentence poorly but what I meant by adding 'to some level' was to allow for the inclusion in the list of the likes of Spain. And again I used the word 'recent' as Vox did poorly in the last elections compared to how they fared 2018/19/20
Donald Tusk warming that Europe is not prepared for war. Laughable five years ago but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility now with Putin well and truly untouchable in his own country.
Where does that leave Ireland, a geographic soft spot on the western fringe of UK and Europe?
Has NATO a blueprint somewhere to save Irelands ass for their own welfare? And does Ireland know about it?
Quote from: Sportacus on March 29, 2024, 11:31:40 AMDonald Tusk warming that Europe is not prepared for war. Laughable five years ago but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility now with Putin well and truly untouchable in his own country.
Where does that leave Ireland, a geographic soft spot on the western fringe of UK and Europe?
Has NATO a blueprint somewhere to save Irelands ass for their own welfare? And does Ireland know about it?
Putin couldn't even roll over Ukraine, right on his own border, so how do you think he's ever going to invade the whole of Europe, let alone Ireland?
Pure scaremongering in the US and Europe to drive more taxpayers money into the hands of the Military–industrial complex who are lining the pockets of a lot of politicians along the way.
Quote from: Sportacus on March 29, 2024, 11:31:40 AMDonald Tusk warming that Europe is not prepared for war. Laughable five years ago but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility now with Putin well and truly untouchable in his own country.
Where does that leave Ireland, a geographic soft spot on the western fringe of UK and Europe?
Has NATO a blueprint somewhere to save Irelands ass for their own welfare? And does Ireland know about it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIUK_gap
The Brits will mind us.
Bad news for Mick and Clare?
BBC reports (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68685604)
Russian network that 'paid European politicians' busted, authorities claim
A Russian-backed "propaganda" network has been broken up for spreading anti-Ukraine stories and paying unnamed European politicians, according to authorities in several countries.
Investigators claimed it used the popular Voice of Europe website as a vehicle to pay politicians.
The Czech Republic and Poland said the network aimed to influence European politics.
Incidentally, Clare (and Mick by siamese association) were added last October to the Shady Horse of Russian Propaganda list, joining Shady Horse luminaries such as avowed racist Tommy Robinson, Geert Wilders, César Vidal, Victor Urban and a host of other shady horses. Quite an accomplishment for Clare the self acclaimed socialist, to have her portrait mounted unashamedly in that hall of ignominy.
From the Ukraine Crisis Media Centre (https://uacrisis.org/en/tag/shady-horse#)
No need to consider any possibility it being a smear campaign by those with vested interests to keep the thing going
Quote from: Sportacus on March 29, 2024, 11:31:40 AMDonald Tusk warming that Europe is not prepared for war. Laughable five years ago but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility now with Putin well and truly untouchable in his own country.
Where does that leave Ireland, a geographic soft spot on the western fringe of UK and Europe?
Has NATO a blueprint somewhere to save Irelands ass for their own welfare? And does Ireland know about it?
WHAT?!?!?
So the Russians with their extensive Navy are going to try and invade Ireland, a full EU member, putting themselves at the end of an enormously fragile supply chain and piss off half of the US on both sides of congress/senate?
If any Russian ship managed to make it to Irish territorial waters I'd be amazed. If any managed to reach shoreline I'd be in a state of disbelief and if they lasted longer than a week before dying of half the USAF's missiles up their hole I'd die of shock.
Of course, the Russians aren't that stupid so would never even try. Not before already occupying all of continental Europe and probably the UK too.
I doubt anyone expects Russian troops to rock up in Ireland any time soon
But then, why is Russia investing so much energy into sowing discord in the West?
Why are they so concerned with amplifying extremism, disrupting elections and parliaments in the EU, and the US for example?
A country of dirt roads and $600 per month average salaries isn't trying to level up by pulling itself upwards, it's trying to pull the rest down.
The HSE cyber attack originating from Russia should be a wake up call for those thinking that 'neutral' Ireland are immune from being targeted.
It may be a taster, there is plenty of more serious disruption a rogue entity could do to Ireland.
Mick Wallace and Clare Daly might be harmless idiots to most. Maybe they're funded by Russia, maybe they're not, but I doubt we even have the resources and intelligence ability to find out.
Ireland certainly needs to beef up on security and at a minimum be able to patrol and track what's going on in our coastal waters.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 02, 2024, 02:10:29 PMI doubt anyone expects Russian troops to rock up in Ireland any time soon
But then, why is Russia investing so much energy into sowing discord in the West?
Why are they so concerned with amplifying extremism, disrupting elections and parliaments in the EU, and the US for example?
A country of dirt roads and $600 per month average salaries isn't trying to level up by pulling itself upwards, it's trying to pull the rest down.
The HSE cyber attack originating from Russia should be a wake up call for those thinking that 'neutral' Ireland are immune from being targeted.
It may be a taster, there is plenty of more serious disruption a rogue entity could do to Ireland.
Mick Wallace and Clare Daly might be harmless idiots to most. Maybe they're funded by Russia, maybe they're not, but I doubt we even have the resources and intelligence ability to find out.
Ireland certainly needs to beef up on security and at a minimum be able to patrol and track what's going on in our coastal waters.
There is zero evidence it was a nation state sponsored attack. The group identified behind it are a cyber crime gang and was a ransomware attack purely for profit.
Quote from: thebigfella on April 02, 2024, 02:26:03 PMQuote from: Bord na Mona man on April 02, 2024, 02:10:29 PMI doubt anyone expects Russian troops to rock up in Ireland any time soon
But then, why is Russia investing so much energy into sowing discord in the West?
Why are they so concerned with amplifying extremism, disrupting elections and parliaments in the EU, and the US for example?
A country of dirt roads and $600 per month average salaries isn't trying to level up by pulling itself upwards, it's trying to pull the rest down.
The HSE cyber attack originating from Russia should be a wake up call for those thinking that 'neutral' Ireland are immune from being targeted.
It may be a taster, there is plenty of more serious disruption a rogue entity could do to Ireland.
Mick Wallace and Clare Daly might be harmless idiots to most. Maybe they're funded by Russia, maybe they're not, but I doubt we even have the resources and intelligence ability to find out.
Ireland certainly needs to beef up on security and at a minimum be able to patrol and track what's going on in our coastal waters.
There is zero evidence it was a nation state sponsored attack. The group identified behind it are a cyber crime gang and was a ransomware attack purely for profit.
In Russia, cyber crime gangs are known to the Kremlin. They're expected to cooperate with them and share the windfalls from their ransom attacks.
Russia also interferes in European politics via far right parties .Orban reports to Putin. so does Le Pen.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 02, 2024, 02:47:13 PMQuote from: thebigfella on April 02, 2024, 02:26:03 PMQuote from: Bord na Mona man on April 02, 2024, 02:10:29 PMI doubt anyone expects Russian troops to rock up in Ireland any time soon
But then, why is Russia investing so much energy into sowing discord in the West?
Why are they so concerned with amplifying extremism, disrupting elections and parliaments in the EU, and the US for example?
A country of dirt roads and $600 per month average salaries isn't trying to level up by pulling itself upwards, it's trying to pull the rest down.
The HSE cyber attack originating from Russia should be a wake up call for those thinking that 'neutral' Ireland are immune from being targeted.
It may be a taster, there is plenty of more serious disruption a rogue entity could do to Ireland.
Mick Wallace and Clare Daly might be harmless idiots to most. Maybe they're funded by Russia, maybe they're not, but I doubt we even have the resources and intelligence ability to find out.
Ireland certainly needs to beef up on security and at a minimum be able to patrol and track what's going on in our coastal waters.
There is zero evidence it was a nation state sponsored attack. The group identified behind it are a cyber crime gang and was a ransomware attack purely for profit.
In Russia, cyber crime gangs are known to the Kremlin. They're expected to cooperate with them and share the windfalls from their ransom attacks.
Cyber gangs are tolerated and some are even hired on behalf of the state, but there is zero evidence the Russian state targeted the HSE.
The ransomware gang behind the HSE attack actively target state agencies and the HSE attack followed the same pattern as previous attacks. There was nothing more to it than good old extortion.
When it comes to the Kremlin terrorist state shenanigans, presume guilt & lies until otherwise informed.
Poland, Finland and the Baltic states only know that too well.
Some people with short memories, was there not a Russian sub at their geopolitical games of the coast of Cork last year?
Quote from: bennydorano on April 03, 2024, 09:39:10 AMSome people with short memories, was there not a Russian sub at their geopolitical games of the coast of Cork last year?
Regardless of all the other points, the Russian State was not responsible for the HSE ransomware attack despite where it is believed to have originated from based upon the evidence.
Stating otherwise is false and Ireland has a greater threat from cyber crime gangs than rogue nations hacking us for geopolitical reasons. We are just not that important in the grand scheme of things.
Quote from: thebigfella on April 03, 2024, 10:18:27 AMQuote from: bennydorano on April 03, 2024, 09:39:10 AMSome people with short memories, was there not a Russian sub at their geopolitical games of the coast of Cork last year?
Regardless of all the other points, the Russian State was not responsible for the HSE ransomware attack despite where it is believed to have originated from based upon the evidence.
Stating otherwise is false and Ireland has a greater threat from cyber crime gangs than rogue nations hacking us for geopolitical reasons. We are just not that important in the grand scheme of things.
The Conti and Trickbot groups are the acknowledged gangs who hacked into HSE.
From a Wired article (https://www.wired.com/story/conti-trickbot-ransomware-sanctions-uk-us/)
Last month UK and USA intell service outed and sanctioned 7 named persons and "the UK and US are now explicitly calling out links between Conti and Trickbot and Russia's intelligence services"
Those hacking gangs have overtly pledged allegiance (https://www.recordedfuture.com/dark-covenant-2-cybercrime-russian-state-war-ukraine) to the Russian state at/since the time of full scale invasion of Ukraine.
"Highly Likely" is good enough for me to claim that there are well developed links between the cyber criminals and Russian intelligence. Inflicting such mayhem around Europe or supporting in some form or another from a distance is part and parcel of the Kremlin modus operandi.
Quote from: Main Street on April 03, 2024, 12:09:42 PMQuote from: thebigfella on April 03, 2024, 10:18:27 AMQuote from: bennydorano on April 03, 2024, 09:39:10 AMSome people with short memories, was there not a Russian sub at their geopolitical games of the coast of Cork last year?
Regardless of all the other points, the Russian State was not responsible for the HSE ransomware attack despite where it is believed to have originated from based upon the evidence.
Stating otherwise is false and Ireland has a greater threat from cyber crime gangs than rogue nations hacking us for geopolitical reasons. We are just not that important in the grand scheme of things.
The Conti and Trickbot groups are the acknowledged gangs who hacked into HSE.
From a Wired article (https://www.wired.com/story/conti-trickbot-ransomware-sanctions-uk-us/)
Last month UK and USA intell service outed and sanctioned 7 named persons and "the UK and US are now explicitly calling out links between Conti and Trickbot and Russia's intelligence services"
Those hacking gangs have overtly pledged allegiance (https://www.recordedfuture.com/dark-covenant-2-cybercrime-russian-state-war-ukraine) to the Russian state at/since the time of full scale invasion of Ukraine.
"Highly Likely" is good enough for me to claim that there are well developed links between the cyber criminals and Russian intelligence. Inflicting such mayhem around Europe or supporting in some form or another from a distance is part and parcel of the Kremlin modus operandi.
I never disputed that the Russia uses these cyber gangs for their own means?
In fact I clearly stated cyber gangs are tolerated and some are even hired on behalf of the state. We know there are links between these groups and nation states (and have been proven to be the case in certain attacks).
This is not the movies and these are not a few lads in bedrooms. These are large criminal enterprises with lots of resources and very sophisticated supply chains. It's a very lucrative business and what is reported is only the tip of the iceberg.
Still regardless of these links between the criminals and Russian intelligence, there is no creditable evidence that the HSE attack was a Russian state sanctioned attack. It followed a similar pattern to previous Ransomware attacks by this group and stating that neutral Ireland is under attack from Russia is just hyperbole.
The simple fact is Ireland (and many countries) are constantly at risk of attacks from cyber criminals, and the likelihood of those attacks are much greater than a nation state attack.
Quote from: thebigfella on April 03, 2024, 01:06:03 PMQuote from: Main Street on April 03, 2024, 12:09:42 PMQuote from: thebigfella on April 03, 2024, 10:18:27 AMQuote from: bennydorano on April 03, 2024, 09:39:10 AMSome people with short memories, was there not a Russian sub at their geopolitical games of the coast of Cork last year?
Regardless of all the other points, the Russian State was not responsible for the HSE ransomware attack despite where it is believed to have originated from based upon the evidence.
Stating otherwise is false and Ireland has a greater threat from cyber crime gangs than rogue nations hacking us for geopolitical reasons. We are just not that important in the grand scheme of things.
The Conti and Trickbot groups are the acknowledged gangs who hacked into HSE.
From a Wired article (https://www.wired.com/story/conti-trickbot-ransomware-sanctions-uk-us/)
Last month UK and USA intell service outed and sanctioned 7 named persons and "the UK and US are now explicitly calling out links between Conti and Trickbot and Russia's intelligence services"
Those hacking gangs have overtly pledged allegiance (https://www.recordedfuture.com/dark-covenant-2-cybercrime-russian-state-war-ukraine) to the Russian state at/since the time of full scale invasion of Ukraine.
"Highly Likely" is good enough for me to claim that there are well developed links between the cyber criminals and Russian intelligence. Inflicting such mayhem around Europe or supporting in some form or another from a distance is part and parcel of the Kremlin modus operandi.
I never disputed that the Russia uses these cyber gangs for their own means?
In fact I clearly stated cyber gangs are tolerated and some are even hired on behalf of the state. We know there are links between these groups and nation states (and have been proven to be the case in certain attacks).
This is not the movies and these are not a few lads in bedrooms. These are large criminal enterprises with lots of resources and very sophisticated supply chains. It's a very lucrative business and what is reported is only the tip of the iceberg.
Still regardless of these links between the criminals and Russian intelligence, there is no creditable evidence that the HSE attack was a Russian state sanctioned attack. It followed a similar pattern to previous Ransomware attacks by this group and stating that neutral Ireland is under attack from Russia is just hyperbole.
The simple fact is Ireland (and many countries) are constantly at risk of attacks from cyber criminals, and the likelihood of those attacks are much greater than a nation state attack.
Who claimed you did dispute that Russia uses these cyber gangs for their own purposes?
In my and most others opinion, being complicit with the Russian based cyber gangs to reap havoc in Europe carries the same weight of guilt as the doer of the dastardly deeds.
Quote from: Main Street on April 04, 2024, 12:11:13 AMWho claimed you did dispute that Russia uses these cyber gangs for their own purposes?
In my and most others opinion, being complicit with the Russian based cyber gangs to reap havoc in Europe carries the same weight of guilt as the doer of the dastardly deeds.
So if you hire a builder to put up an extension, your responsible for what the same builder does for the fella down the road?
Since some on this board seem to be in doubt, deliberate Russian targeting of civilians continues, as it has done since Feb 2022. The slaughter continues, as in Kharkiv yesterday:
https://x.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1794372449628471315
Russia, Israel - zero difference, two blood soaked fascist regimes.
This will end up with a few retaliatory explosions in Russian cities. More than two years of war and no end in sight
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 26, 2024, 08:17:33 AMSince some on this board seem to be in doubt, deliberate Russian targeting of civilians continues, as it has done since Feb 2022. The slaughter continues, as in Kharkiv yesterday:
https://x.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1794372449628471315
Russia, Israel - zero difference, two blood soaked fascist regimes.
There is some difference, one of the regimes is supported and funded by Western countries, many of whom are our allies. The other is despised by these same countries. Another difference is that media in the West attempts to give balance/equivalence to Israel v Palestine but makes no attempt to do the same in Russia v Ukraine.
Quote from: Itchy on May 26, 2024, 10:58:46 AMQuote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 26, 2024, 08:17:33 AMSince some on this board seem to be in doubt, deliberate Russian targeting of civilians continues, as it has done since Feb 2022. The slaughter continues, as in Kharkiv yesterday:
https://x.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1794372449628471315
Russia, Israel - zero difference, two blood soaked fascist regimes.
There is some difference, one of the regimes is supported and funded by Western countries, many of whom are our allies. The other is despised by these same countries. Another difference is that media in the West attempts to give balance/equivalence to Israel v Palestine but makes no attempt to do the same in Russia v Ukraine.
Well first of all, the Ukrainian government isn't a regime, it's the democratically elected government of Ukraine. I suppose Israel isn't technically a 'regime' either but it's most definitely blood-soaked and fascist in nature.
It is right that Ukraine is supported by other countries in their fight against Russian aggression. By the way the civilian slaughter in Ukraine would be many, many times greater if it wasn't for western supply of air defences to shoot down Russian missiles and Iranian drones.
Also, support given to Ukraine doesn't alter the nature of Russia's deliberate and indiscriminate attacks on civilians. See Syria, Georgia and Chechnya also. Just like Israel in Gaza, deliberate murder.
The media doesn't attempt to make a balance/equivalence between Ukraine and Russia because there is none.
I agree with you that it's unfair and hypocritical to equate Palestine with Israel in their fight against aggression. I agree with you it's shameful that western countries supply Israel with weapons and that Israel hasn't been sanctioned and kicked out of all sporting and international events (like SA was back in the day).
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 26, 2024, 11:51:15 AMQuote from: Itchy on May 26, 2024, 10:58:46 AMQuote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 26, 2024, 08:17:33 AMSince some on this board seem to be in doubt, deliberate Russian targeting of civilians continues, as it has done since Feb 2022. The slaughter continues, as in Kharkiv yesterday:
https://x.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1794372449628471315
Russia, Israel - zero difference, two blood soaked fascist regimes.
There is some difference, one of the regimes is supported and funded by Western countries, many of whom are our allies. The other is despised by these same countries. Another difference is that media in the West attempts to give balance/equivalence to Israel v Palestine but makes no attempt to do the same in Russia v Ukraine.
Well first of all, the Ukrainian government isn't a regime, it's the democratically elected government of Ukraine. I suppose Israel isn't technically a 'regime' either but it's most definitely blood-soaked and fascist in nature.
It is right that Ukraine is supported by other countries in their fight against Russian aggression. By the way the civilian slaughter in Ukraine would be many, many times greater if it wasn't for western supply of air defences to shoot down Russian missiles and Iranian drones.
Also, support given to Ukraine doesn't alter the nature of Russia's deliberate and indiscriminate attacks on civilians. See Syria, Georgia and Chechnya also. Just like Israel in Gaza, deliberate murder.
The media doesn't attempt to make a balance/equivalence between Ukraine and Russia because there is none.
I agree with you that it's unfair and hypocritical to equate Palestine with Israel in their fight against aggression. I agree with you it's shameful that western countries supply Israel with weapons and that Israel hasn't been sanctioned and kicked out of all sporting and international events (like SA was back in the day).
You misread my post. Regime 1 = Israel, Regime 2 = Russia.
Quote from: Itchy on May 26, 2024, 03:38:37 PMQuote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 26, 2024, 11:51:15 AMQuote from: Itchy on May 26, 2024, 10:58:46 AMQuote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 26, 2024, 08:17:33 AMSince some on this board seem to be in doubt, deliberate Russian targeting of civilians continues, as it has done since Feb 2022. The slaughter continues, as in Kharkiv yesterday:
https://x.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1794372449628471315
Russia, Israel - zero difference, two blood soaked fascist regimes.
There is some difference, one of the regimes is supported and funded by Western countries, many of whom are our allies. The other is despised by these same countries. Another difference is that media in the West attempts to give balance/equivalence to Israel v Palestine but makes no attempt to do the same in Russia v Ukraine.
Well first of all, the Ukrainian government isn't a regime, it's the democratically elected government of Ukraine. I suppose Israel isn't technically a 'regime' either but it's most definitely blood-soaked and fascist in nature.
It is right that Ukraine is supported by other countries in their fight against Russian aggression. By the way the civilian slaughter in Ukraine would be many, many times greater if it wasn't for western supply of air defences to shoot down Russian missiles and Iranian drones.
Also, support given to Ukraine doesn't alter the nature of Russia's deliberate and indiscriminate attacks on civilians. See Syria, Georgia and Chechnya also. Just like Israel in Gaza, deliberate murder.
The media doesn't attempt to make a balance/equivalence between Ukraine and Russia because there is none.
I agree with you that it's unfair and hypocritical to equate Palestine with Israel in their fight against aggression. I agree with you it's shameful that western countries supply Israel with weapons and that Israel hasn't been sanctioned and kicked out of all sporting and international events (like SA was back in the day).
You misread my post. Regime 1 = Israel, Regime 2 = Russia.
Ah, yes I took it up wrong, I thought you were referencing Ukraine and Russia.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2024, 10:51:00 AMThis will end up with a few retaliatory explosions in Russian cities. More than two years of war and no end in sight
That's a very questionable statement, as in '
both sides do crap'. The AFU, in the main, strike at military logistic targets inside Russia as well as their vital fuel industrial economy.
Killing Russian civilians for the sake of a retaliation would be regarded as a waste of a good AFU bomb.
Well let's see, tactics over the years with various conflicts or wars have used indiscriminate bombs to create fear..
Doesn't mean it will impact change from the aggressors, in fact might have the opposite
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2024, 12:03:34 AMWell let's see, tactics over the years with various conflicts or wars have used indiscriminate bombs to create fear..
Doesn't mean it will impact change from the aggressors, in fact might have the opposite
You don't need to wait and see, Russia has been hitting civilians targets intentionally for over 2 years now. Including double tap strikes to kill first responders and those coming to help the wounded.
Ukraine hasn't adopted their 'strategy' and they aren't going to. In fact, every time Ukraine hits a high value Russian military target such as an airfield or ship watch out for the next shopping mall or marketplace packed with civilians to get obliterated. They think they can break the will of the Ukrainian civilian population, they are wrong.
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 27, 2024, 07:34:36 AMThey think they can break the will of the Ukrainian civilian population, they are wrong.
I hope you are right.
China are happy to keep the Russian murder machine well stocked up though.
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 27, 2024, 07:34:36 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2024, 12:03:34 AMWell let's see, tactics over the years with various conflicts or wars have used indiscriminate bombs to create fear..
Doesn't mean it will impact change from the aggressors, in fact might have the opposite
You don't need to wait and see, Russia has been hitting civilians targets intentionally for over 2 years now. Including double tap strikes to kill first responders and those coming to help the wounded.
Ukraine hasn't adopted their 'strategy' and they aren't going to. In fact, every time Ukraine hits a high value Russian military target such as an airfield or ship watch out for the next shopping mall or marketplace packed with civilians to get obliterated. They think they can break the will of the Ukrainian civilian population, they are wrong.
I seriously doubt that MR2 has been following the war news from Ukraine, the weak justification offered for his statement that something may change in the future would suggest so.
On hitting military targets deep inside Russia, this recent hit takes the biscuit with aplomb, A drone traveled (a new world record) 1,800km
"attacking the Voronezh M long-range ballistic missile target detection radar station located in the city of Orsk on 26 May"This radar station offered some level of protection for a vast area of land (thousands of kms) which includes Crimea.This station can detect ATTACKMS and for example f16 fighter planes (yet to arrive) but not Stormshadow missiles or drones.
This very effective softening up strategy by the AFU of hitting active and passive Russian defense systems continues unabated.
The 2 radar complexes that were hit, approx value $1bn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6masppIXd1w&t=54s
Everyone completely comfortable with the dichotomous notion that one side is the goodie and the other side the baddie here?
I'm not
Quote from: theskull1 on May 27, 2024, 01:50:24 PMEveryone completely comfortable with the dichotomous notion that one side is the goodie and the other side the baddie here?
I'm not
No conflict is every entirely black and white and when the war starts there is some disreputable behaviour. But the Ukraine war is pretty black and white as wars go.
If you consider mainstream media trustworthy, I can see that being the case.
On my 'newsfeed' a minute ago was "What countries will Putin invade next?". Some people gobble this rubbish up.
Anyway this particular conflict won't last long as Russia is running out of soldiers and ammo. Remember that one!?
Quote from: theskull1 on May 27, 2024, 02:06:44 PMIf you consider mainstream media trustworthy, I can see that being the case.
Why? In what way does "aminstream" media mislead us about Ukraine? Is there some other trustworthy media?
Quote from: burdizzo on May 27, 2024, 02:19:37 PMOn my 'newsfeed' a minute ago was "What countries will Putin invade next?". Some people gobble this rubbish up.
Invading other places seems unikely as Putin has his hands full, but that doesn't mean that he would not like to.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 27, 2024, 02:20:04 PMAnyway this particular conflict won't last long as Russia is running out of soldiers and ammo. Remember that one!?
No rational person said that given the population of Russia. One wonders though why the Russian people, already living in the biggest country on earth, tolerate half a million casualties to capture a couple of rust bucket towns in Ukraine. Basic ammo will not run out, but Russia has lost quite a few ships and aircraft that it cannot replace quickly.
Quote from: Main Street on May 27, 2024, 12:28:06 PMQuote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 27, 2024, 07:34:36 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2024, 12:03:34 AMWell let's see, tactics over the years with various conflicts or wars have used indiscriminate bombs to create fear..
Doesn't mean it will impact change from the aggressors, in fact might have the opposite
You don't need to wait and see, Russia has been hitting civilians targets intentionally for over 2 years now. Including double tap strikes to kill first responders and those coming to help the wounded.
Ukraine hasn't adopted their 'strategy' and they aren't going to. In fact, every time Ukraine hits a high value Russian military target such as an airfield or ship watch out for the next shopping mall or marketplace packed with civilians to get obliterated. They think they can break the will of the Ukrainian civilian population, they are wrong.
I seriously doubt that MR2 has been following the war news from Ukraine, the weak justification offered for his statement that something may change in the future would suggest so.
On hitting military targets deep inside Russia, this recent hit takes the biscuit with aplomb, A drone traveled (a new world record) 1,800km "attacking the Voronezh M long-range ballistic missile target detection radar station located in the city of Orsk on 26 May"
This radar station offered some level of protection for a vast area of land (thousands of kms) which includes Crimea.This station can detect ATTACKMS and for example f16 fighter planes (yet to arrive) but not Stormshadow missiles or drones.
This very effective softening up strategy by the AFU of hitting active and passive Russian defense systems continues unabated.
The 2 radar complexes that were hit, approx value $1bn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6masppIXd1w&t=54s
Ok..
Im watching the news, documentary's, clips online like anyone else.
What are you doing different?
Quote from: theskull1 on May 27, 2024, 01:50:24 PMEveryone completely comfortable with the dichotomous notion that one side is the goodie and the other side the baddie here?
I'm not
No it seems you've reserved the dichotomous notion of 'goodie and baddie' status for the Palestine-Israel conflict. And not only you either.
For some reason you don't believe Israeli lies as quickly as you swallow Russian lies. Why is that do you think?
Quote from: burdizzo on May 27, 2024, 02:19:37 PMOn my 'newsfeed' a minute ago was "What countries will Putin invade next?". Some people gobble this rubbish up.
Absolutely , people buy what the Mainstream Media tell you or some Clown will put a Video up on Youtube like the example you have given ( I`ve come across it ) , people are too lazy to do research themselves and see what the reality of the situation is .
Quote from: Horse Box on May 27, 2024, 03:23:54 PMQuote from: burdizzo on May 27, 2024, 02:19:37 PMOn my 'newsfeed' a minute ago was "What countries will Putin invade next?". Some people gobble this rubbish up.
Absolutely , people buy what the Mainstream Media tell you or some Clown will put a Video up on Youtube like the example you have given ( I`ve come across it ) , people are too lazy to do research themselves and see what the reality of the situation is .
Oh yeah and the open-minded non-lazy people's 'own research' typically involves watching a few Max Blumenthal 'investigations' and swallowing his bullshit hook, line and sinker.
Heard of him? I know you have. Skull definitely has.
On the other hand, the people who are 'too clever to believe the MSM' and 'do their own research' - remember when they were telling us that Putin was stepping in to sort a Nazi problem, or rescuing Ukraine from joining NATO.
Strange how tankies and 'both siders' have gone quiet about these justifications?
Now imagine if Putin had been able to topple Ukraine in 3 days, with a few rusty tanks on the road to Kyiv, as he originally thought.
Would he have realistically have stopped there? I expect he'd already be sorting out Moldova's problem by now.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on May 27, 2024, 04:37:13 PMOn the other hand, the people who are 'too clever to believe the MSM' and 'do their own research' - remember when they were telling us that Putin was stepping in to sort a Nazi problem, or rescuing Ukraine from joining NATO.
Strange how tankies and 'both siders' have gone quiet about these justifications?
Now imagine if Putin had been able to topple Ukraine in 3 days, with a few rusty tanks on the road to Kyiv, as he originally thought.
Would he have realistically have stopped there? I expect he'd already be sorting out Moldova's problem by now.
They've been quiet but they're still there, believing the same tired old rubbish but mostly too embarrassed to spout it now, after everything Russia has done (and said) these past 2 years.
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 27, 2024, 04:55:25 PMQuote from: Bord na Mona man on May 27, 2024, 04:37:13 PMOn the other hand, the people who are 'too clever to believe the MSM' and 'do their own research' - remember when they were telling us that Putin was stepping in to sort a Nazi problem, or rescuing Ukraine from joining NATO.
Strange how tankies and 'both siders' have gone quiet about these justifications?
Now imagine if Putin had been able to topple Ukraine in 3 days, with a few rusty tanks on the road to Kyiv, as he originally thought.
Would he have realistically have stopped there? I expect he'd already be sorting out Moldova's problem by now.
They've been quiet but they're still there, believing the same tired old rubbish but mostly too embarrassed to spout it now, after everything Russia has done (and said) these past 2 years.
Sure we still have "one side is bad as the other" here after 400 years, and these rubbish spouters probably think that a reasonable statement too.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2024, 02:41:45 PMQuote from: Main Street on May 27, 2024, 12:28:06 PMQuote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 27, 2024, 07:34:36 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2024, 12:03:34 AMWell let's see, tactics over the years with various conflicts or wars have used indiscriminate bombs to create fear..
Doesn't mean it will impact change from the aggressors, in fact might have the opposite
You don't need to wait and see, Russia has been hitting civilians targets intentionally for over 2 years now. Including double tap strikes to kill first responders and those coming to help the wounded.
Ukraine hasn't adopted their 'strategy' and they aren't going to. In fact, every time Ukraine hits a high value Russian military target such as an airfield or ship watch out for the next shopping mall or marketplace packed with civilians to get obliterated. They think they can break the will of the Ukrainian civilian population, they are wrong.
I seriously doubt that MR2 has been following the war news from Ukraine, the weak justification offered for his statement that something may change in the future would suggest so.
On hitting military targets deep inside Russia, this recent hit takes the biscuit with aplomb, A drone traveled (a new world record) 1,800km "attacking the Voronezh M long-range ballistic missile target detection radar station located in the city of Orsk on 26 May"
This radar station offered some level of protection for a vast area of land (thousands of kms) which includes Crimea.This station can detect ATTACKMS and for example f16 fighter planes (yet to arrive) but not Stormshadow missiles or drones.
This very effective softening up strategy by the AFU of hitting active and passive Russian defense systems continues unabated.
The 2 radar complexes that were hit, approx value $1bn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6masppIXd1w&t=54s
Ok..
Im watching the news, documentary's, clips online like anyone else.
What are you doing different?
I am not seeing what you claim will happen
QuoteThis will end up with a few retaliatory explosions in Russian cities. More than two years of war and no end in sight
And when it was pointed that the AFU do not do purposeful retaliation strikes against Russian civilians you then claimed that it might happen in the future (no shit!!)
QuoteWell let's see, tactics over the years with various conflicts or wars have used indiscriminate bombs to create fear..
What I come across are daily reports of indiscriminate bombing and actual targeting of Ukrainian civilians over a period of 2 years. Well documented massacres and eg the blitzing of Mariupal. I have not come across anything that one could call a retaliation by th
Not only has there been no deliberate retaliation strikes against Russian civilians in the past 2 years, there is not the slightest hint that the AFU will deviate from their very effective strategy of striking Russian logistics and their active/passive defense systems.
I just said let's see, then you went on a rant..
I'll put this out here in case people are stupid enough to think I'm supporting Russia ::).. I'm not
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2024, 08:00:36 PMI just said let's see, then you went on a rant..
I'll put this out here in case people are stupid enough to think I'm supporting Russia ::).. I'm not
You are the sensitive thin skinned emotional sort ;D When I outline the situation that has been happening in Ukraine over 2 years and basically rubbish your statement of what the AFU will or might do in response to yet another civilian massacre in Ukraine, I am on a rant ;D
Deadly strike on Rafah a tragic mishap, Netanyahu says MSM (actually it hasnt even happened on MSNBC)
I believe them
Quote from: theskull1 on May 27, 2024, 08:58:44 PMDeadly strike on Rafah a tragic mishap, Netanyahu says MSM (actually it hasnt even happened on MSNBC)
I believe them
Not sure what your point is - the 'Mainstream media' print and repeat Russian denials and bullshit as well.
Wrong thread?
People should look up (i.e do your own research) Jewish journalist Max Blumenthal on Twitter. Lubo thinks you shouldn't swallow his bullshit hook, line and sinker.
I'm not sure he's right ::)
How exactly is watching pro-Russian propagandist Max Blumenthal's YouTube videos 'doing your own reseatch'?
Distrust the MSM, but swallow everything Max has to tell you (straight from the Kremlin). Sure Skull, great research there buddy.
Why not find out a little about Max Blumenthal first (religion irrelevant). . Start your research there.
I would have thought nothing was irrelevant if doing "research". Don't know this Max man, meself, but I do dip into "History Legends" for news on the war. It's not Russian propaganda - far from it - but it does pour ridicule on the mainstream narrative.
Quote from: burdizzo on May 28, 2024, 08:45:38 AMI would have thought nothing was irrelevant if doing "research". Don't know this Max man, meself, but I do dip into "History Legends" for news on the war. It's not Russian propaganda - far from it - but it does pour ridicule on the mainstream narrative.
What is the 'mainstream narrative'?
Your caricatured description of 'do your own researchers' Lubo is laughable.
The majority of 'do you're own researchers' suspend belief of anything/anybody until they spend time consuming information from multiple unaligned sources before taking a position and even then keep an open view.
On this topic I listen to the thinking of Glenn Greenwald (System Update), Jeffrey Sachs & John Mearsheimer mainly and compare this to what the main stream want me to think.
Do your own research folks
Poor, brave, righteous, Ukraine is going to win the war. The incompetent, corrupt, and conscripted Russians are using 'human-wave' assaults, and medieval tactics. We must stop Putin before he starts WWIII/ invades the EU.
Also, I'm sure quite a few of the "civilian targets" were not civilian targets, at all. Ukraine is a master of propaganda itself. Perfectly understandable in a war, of course, but it doesn't mean we should report and believe everything Zelensky says as gospel.
Quote from: theskull1 on May 28, 2024, 08:58:40 AMYour caricatured description of 'do your own researchers' Lubo is laughable.
The majority of 'do you're own researchers' suspend belief of anything/anybody until they spend time consuming information from multiple unaligned sources before taking a position and even then keep an open view.
On this topic I listen to the thinking of Glenn Greenwald (System Update), Jeffrey Sachs & John Mearsheimer mainly and compare this to what the main stream want me to think.
Do your own research folks
The problem with your conclusion to your vast meticulous research is that nothing Mearsheimer (it's all NATOs fault), Greenwald or Sachs says stands up to any scrutiny. (That you even entertain Sachs is laughable).
Can you name a single pro-Ukrainian scholar or source that you 'researched' that provided a counter viewpoint to the opinions of those three?
I'm sure there were actually many since you've done your own 'research'.
Quote from: burdizzo on May 28, 2024, 09:08:11 AMPoor, brave, righteous, Ukraine is going to win the war. The incompetent, corrupt, and conscripted Russians are using 'human-wave' assaults, and medieval tactics. We must stop Putin before he starts WWIII/ invades the EU.
Also, I'm sure quite a few of the "civilian targets" were not civilian targets, at all. Ukraine is a master of propaganda itself. Perfectly understandable in a war, of course, but it doesn't mean we should report and believe everything Zelensky says as gospel.
Whoa let all that bile out there Burdizzo, let it out. Maybe you'll feel better and lay off of the refugees for a while.
The mainstream 'narrative' shifts and changes as the war changes. Remember when Ukraine wouldn't last 3 weeks against Russia?
Can you point me to a mainstream news source that says Ukraine is definitely going to win this war? The best I've seen is that they 'can' win. Nobody is under any illusion of the difficulty of achieving that.
The Russian army has shown vast levels of incompetence but it's acknowledged that they have learned, adapted and gotten better as the war progressed.
Are you denying Russia is corrupt? Was Alexei Navalny deluded about the levels of corruption in Russia?
Are you denying Russia uses conscription and shows callous disregard for the welfare of their soldiers?
Quite a few civilian targets, weren't civilians targets? Which ones? The shopping malls, maternity hospitals or the civilian apartment blocks?
Can't wait to get over to History Legends and do some 'research' ;)
One side good ... other side bad.
NATO can come right up to Russia's border and it shouldn't ever be seen as an act of aggression.
One side good ... other side bad.
Quote from: theskull1 on May 28, 2024, 10:54:18 AMOne side good ... other side bad.
NATO can come right up to Russia's border and it shouldn't ever be seen as an act of aggression.
One side good ... other side bad.
If Ukraine wishes to join NATO then that is their business. Norway and now Finland are in NATO and that does not entitle Russia to fire missiles at their DIY superstores and either.
But of course, the reason that Ukraine wants to join NATO is that they want to stop Russia invading them.
Quote from: theskull1 on May 28, 2024, 10:54:18 AMOne side good ... other side bad.
NATO can come right up to Russia's border and it shouldn't ever be seen as an act of aggression.
One side good ... other side bad.
There's the problem right there. Russia can control what goes on within their borders. Not outside them, which they don't seem to get.
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 28, 2024, 10:25:09 AMQuote from: burdizzo on May 28, 2024, 09:08:11 AMPoor, brave, righteous, Ukraine is going to win the war. The incompetent, corrupt, and conscripted Russians are using 'human-wave' assaults, and medieval tactics. We must stop Putin before he starts WWIII/ invades the EU.
Also, I'm sure quite a few of the "civilian targets" were not civilian targets, at all. Ukraine is a master of propaganda itself. Perfectly understandable in a war, of course, but it doesn't mean we should report and believe everything Zelensky says as gospel.
Whoa let all that bile out there Burdizzo, let it out. Maybe you'll feel better and lay off of the refugees for a while.
The mainstream 'narrative' shifts and changes as the war changes. Remember when Ukraine wouldn't last 3 weeks against Russia?
Can you point me to a mainstream news source that says Ukraine is definitely going to win this war? The best I've seen is that they 'can' win. Nobody is under any illusion of the difficulty of achieving that.
The Russian army has shown vast levels of incompetence but it's acknowledged that they have learned, adapted and gotten better as the war progressed.
Are you denying Russia is corrupt? Was Alexei Navalny deluded about the levels of corruption in Russia?
Are you denying Russia uses conscription and shows callous disregard for the welfare of their soldiers?
Quite a few civilian targets, weren't civilians targets? Which ones? The shopping malls, maternity hospitals or the civilian apartment blocks?
Can't wait to get over to History Legends and do some 'research' ;)
No bile in my post, Lubo. And, no, I don't deny that Russia is corrupt, or that they have conscripts. However, the same is true of Ukraine - but I would say Ukraine is probably more careless with the lives of its soldiers, throwing poorly trained conscripts into 'cauldrons' and hopeless situations to hold the line while the more elite units retreat.
Of course, Russia tells lies, too - and I realise Putin is not our friend - but to depict Ukraine as the all-virtuous one is too much to swallow.
Oh yeah - I do believe one of the "civilian targets" was in fact a military meeting. Also, Ukraine blamed Russia for an attack on a marketplace that turned out to have been their own missile. I realise it's war, so propaganda and lies are part of it all, but you really should take a lot of it with a pinch of salt.
Quote from: burdizzo on May 28, 2024, 11:40:05 AMNo bile in my post, Lubo. And, no, I don't deny that Russia is corrupt, or that they have conscripts. However, the same is true of Ukraine - but I would say Ukraine is probably more careless with the lives of its soldiers, throwing poorly trained conscripts into 'cauldrons' and hopeless situations to hold the line while the more elite units retreat.
Of course, Russia tells lies, too - and I realise Putin is not our friend - but to depict Ukraine as the all-virtuous one is too much to swallow.
It isn't rocket science,
Russia invaded Ukraine not the other way around. Russia has killed tens of thousands of civilians by deliberately targetting civilian targets.
Justifying Russia is like justifying rape because the woman wore a short skirt.
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 27, 2024, 04:34:08 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 27, 2024, 03:23:54 PMQuote from: burdizzo on May 27, 2024, 02:19:37 PMOn my 'newsfeed' a minute ago was "What countries will Putin invade next?". Some people gobble this rubbish up.
Absolutely , people buy what the Mainstream Media tell you or some Clown will put a Video up on Youtube like the example you have given ( I`ve come across it ) , people are too lazy to do research themselves and see what the reality of the situation is .
Oh yeah and the open-minded non-lazy people's 'own research' typically involves watching a few Max Blumenthal 'investigations' and swallowing his bullshit hook, line and sinker.
Heard of him? I know you have. Skull definitely has.
No .
You don`t hear anything on Western Media about the shelling that occurred of ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine long before the war kicked off , the ethnic cleansing of these areas also . The shelling of civilian areas in Donetsk and Belgorod ( Russia ) since the start of the war either .
One of the most disturbing things is the Ukrainian Press Gangs , dragging people of the streets and forcing them into the Army . One place this has happened alot is transcarpathia a region with a large ethnic Hungarian community . To the Ukrainians it is a good way to cull the Hungarians as most of them would like the area to be part of Hungary .
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30122
https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mail/20240301/281883008288800
Quote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 12:03:49 PMYou don`t hear anything on Western Media about the shelling that occurred of ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine long before the war kicked off , the ethnic cleansing of these areas also . The shelling of civilian areas in Donetsk and Belgorod ( Russia ) since the start of the war either .
Russia invaded in 2014 and of course there has been some shelling on the front since then, by no means were these shells going one way. As somebody noted above, Ukraine does not have the ammunition to waste on shelling random targets.
And of course if Russia withdraws to their own borders then the people of Belgorod needn't worry.
Quote from: burdizzo on May 28, 2024, 11:40:05 AMQuote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 28, 2024, 10:25:09 AMQuote from: burdizzo on May 28, 2024, 09:08:11 AMPoor, brave, righteous, Ukraine is going to win the war. The incompetent, corrupt, and conscripted Russians are using 'human-wave' assaults, and medieval tactics. We must stop Putin before he starts WWIII/ invades the EU.
Also, I'm sure quite a few of the "civilian targets" were not civilian targets, at all. Ukraine is a master of propaganda itself. Perfectly understandable in a war, of course, but it doesn't mean we should report and believe everything Zelensky says as gospel.
Whoa let all that bile out there Burdizzo, let it out. Maybe you'll feel better and lay off of the refugees for a while.
The mainstream 'narrative' shifts and changes as the war changes. Remember when Ukraine wouldn't last 3 weeks against Russia?
Can you point me to a mainstream news source that says Ukraine is definitely going to win this war? The best I've seen is that they 'can' win. Nobody is under any illusion of the difficulty of achieving that.
The Russian army has shown vast levels of incompetence but it's acknowledged that they have learned, adapted and gotten better as the war progressed.
Are you denying Russia is corrupt? Was Alexei Navalny deluded about the levels of corruption in Russia?
Are you denying Russia uses conscription and shows callous disregard for the welfare of their soldiers?
Quite a few civilian targets, weren't civilians targets? Which ones? The shopping malls, maternity hospitals or the civilian apartment blocks?
Can't wait to get over to History Legends and do some 'research' ;)
No bile in my post, Lubo. And, no, I don't deny that Russia is corrupt, or that they have conscripts. However, the same is true of Ukraine - but I would say Ukraine is probably more careless with the lives of its soldiers, throwing poorly trained conscripts into 'cauldrons' and hopeless situations to hold the line while the more elite units retreat.
Of course, Russia tells lies, too - and I realise Putin is not our friend - but to depict Ukraine as the all-virtuous one is too much to swallow.
Oh yeah - I do believe one of the "civilian targets" was in fact a military meeting. Also, Ukraine blamed Russia for an attack on a marketplace that turned out to have been their own missile. I realise it's war, so propaganda and lies are part of it all, but you really should take a lot of it with a pinch of salt.
Welcome to the upside down world of Russian propaganda. This is what the 'researchers' come up with when they set off on their missions for the 'truth'. I've a feeling I'm going to hear the word 'cauldron' a lot when I finally get round to visiting 'History Legends, but let's see.
Not one single Ukrainian would have been conscripted (or Russian) if Russia had not invaded. Not one single Ukrainian (or Russian) would have died if Russia had not invaded. And still, over two years later, we still have this delusional rubbish.
So out of hundreds of attacks on civilians and thousands of deaths you have managed two examples. Military meeting? Was that like the Hamas military meeting in the Rafah camp two nights ago?
The marketplace - I think I remember the one you mean - there's been so many it's hard to know. Something vague about a 'shadow' meaning it was definitely the Ukrainians (in the eyes of a Blumenthal). Even if it was a stray air defense, ask yourself, why is the firing of air defense missiles necessary in the first place.
No acknowledgement that bringing an army up to a border (after years of US backed revolution and conflict in that said country) is an act of aggression. ::)
One side good ..... the other side bad
Quote from: theskull1 on May 28, 2024, 01:20:09 PMNo acknowledgement that bringing an army up to a border (after years of US backed revolution and conflict in that said country) is an act of aggression. ::)
One side good ..... the other side bad
Russia acting in self defence. ;D
Those theatres and hospitals really are dangerous things that could attack Russia at any moment.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 12:12:24 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 12:03:49 PMYou don`t hear anything on Western Media about the shelling that occurred of ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine long before the war kicked off , the ethnic cleansing of these areas also . The shelling of civilian areas in Donetsk and Belgorod ( Russia ) since the start of the war either .
Russia invaded in 2014 and of course there has been some shelling on the front since then, by no means were these shells going one way. As somebody noted above, Ukraine does not have the ammunition to waste on shelling random targets.
And of course if Russia withdraws to their own borders then the people of Belgorod needn't worry.
New York Times 2014 :
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html
Quote from: theskull1 on May 28, 2024, 01:20:09 PMNo acknowledgement that bringing an army up to a border (after years of US backed revolution and conflict in that said country) is an act of aggression. ::)
One side good ..... the other side bad
Ok then, let's deal with the NATO nonsense once and for all.
First of all Ukraine isn't in NATO and wasn't about to join anytime soon. It had neutral status which it's parliament only voted to end in December 2014 AFTER Russia invaded. A pretty good reason if you ask me. Ukraine's road to NATO was not guaranteed in any case with all member stated having to agree (Hungary anyone?).
Is NATO a threat to Russia? Russia loves reminding everyone it has nuclear weapons and it's not afraid to use them. Yet somehow we are all expected to believe that NATO was planning to attack Russia. Russia has had NATO on it's borders since 1999 (Poland) and again in 2004 (Baltics). When is this aggressive attack coming Skull? Finland joined NATO and Russia couldn't really care less. In fact they removed some of their military equipment from the Finnish border to Ukraine such is the grave danger of Finland's NATO membership.
Free thinking 'researchers' love to cite that the US has broken a 'promise' to Russia regarding NATO not expanding. Two points about this which you can tell the 'researchers' again and again and again but they always forget and repeat it anyway.
First a conservation over dinner is not an international agreement (unlike the actual agreements Ukraine had with Russia to respect it's borders).
Second - the discussion was specifically about the reunification of Germany and NATO expansion into former DDR territory after reunification. James Baker told Gorbachev not one inch (which they have stuck to). The other countries weren't even considered as the Warsaw pact was still in place and the USSR hand't yet collapse. Why would it even be discussed or considered. Gorbachev even confirms all this in an interview later. 'Researchers' can easily find this interview online but they don't seem to be able to for some reason.
As it happens - the USSR collapsed and the former Warsaw Pact countries one after another all applied to join NATO. Democratic governments. Mearsheimer with his morally bankrupt theories of Russian power would deny the NATO security blanket to millions of people. The Baltics would already have had the Ukraine and Georgia treatment if not for NATO.
Which brings us to the question of why does Russia REALLY not want Ukraine to join NATO. It's simple really - once inside they're untouchable. Not because of a fictional NATO attack, not because of Nazis (we can go there if you want) and certainly not because of any fictional ethnic cleansing of Russians in the Donbas region (and now fictional ethnic cleansing in Transcarpathia according to 'researcher' Horsebox).
So yes Skull, One side good, one side bad. That's the status you reserve only for 'Palestine - Israel' but in your denial of the Ukrainian right to be free from Russian aggression once and for all you only expose yourself as a hypocrite.
Edit: I forgot to add, such was NATOs desire for aggression and confrontation with Russia that one of the leaders of NATO (Germany) was pursuing a policy of economic cooperation and mutual benefit with Russia, even going so far as to build another direct gas pipeline with them.
The US (and whoever is influencing their politicians) has involved themselves in too many wars, coups, proxy wars for me
(it's endless) to believe anything that supports their narrative. Paranoia can be a healthy defensive position to take against outside threats, so it's not surprising to me they reacted. The lack of diplomatic engagement efforts by the west has been striking to me.
Would never call any side intrinsically good.
So Zelensky`s term as President is over since last week , however it doesn`t look like an Election will be called . Suits the US/NATO as they have their Puppet in place . Zelensky is not that popular at the moment in Ukraine so the Polls might not be kind to him .
Interesting too that all Pro Russian Parties in Ukraine are banned , this is the kind of Democracy the US and the West likes when it gets it`s hands on you ! It leaves a large section of Ukrainian Society disenfranchised , not just in the Donbass area .
Quote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 02:56:42 PMSo Zelensky`s term as President is over since last week , however it doesn`t look like an Election will be called . Suits the US/NATO as they have their Puppet in place . Zelensky is not that popular at the moment in Ukraine so the Polls might not be kind to him .
Interesting too that all Pro Russian Parties in Ukraine are banned , this is the kind of Democracy the US and the West likes when it gets it`s hands on you ! It leaves a large section of Ukrainian Society disenfranchised , not just in the Donbass area .
There were no elections in Britain during the war, it isn't the time for an election.
Pro Nazi parties were also banned in Britain during the war.
There aren't so many pro Russian Ukrainians now, after being bombed by them. It is a complete fallacy to declare that all Russian speakers want to be ruled from Moscow, just as all people in Kildare do want to be ruled from London although they have spoken English for centuries. If Russian speakers were discriminated against then why would they not want to replace Zelensky with a fior-Ukrainian?
Quote from: theskull1 on May 28, 2024, 01:20:09 PMNo acknowledgement that bringing an army up to a border (after years of US backed revolution and conflict in that said country) is an act of aggression. ::)
One side good ..... the other side bad
Russia had actual bases in Ukraine, was that an act of aggression?
There was conflict in that country, shit stirred up by Russia which tried to thwart the wishes of the Ukrainian people to join the EU.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 03:06:08 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 02:56:42 PMSo Zelensky`s term as President is over since last week , however it doesn`t look like an Election will be called . Suits the US/NATO as they have their Puppet in place . Zelensky is not that popular at the moment in Ukraine so the Polls might not be kind to him .
Interesting too that all Pro Russian Parties in Ukraine are banned , this is the kind of Democracy the US and the West likes when it gets it`s hands on you ! It leaves a large section of Ukrainian Society disenfranchised , not just in the Donbass area .
There were no elections in Britain during the war, it isn't the time for an election.
Pro Nazi parties were also banned in Britain during the war.
There aren't so many pro Russian Ukrainians now, after being bombed by them. It is a complete fallacy to declare that all Russian speakers want to be ruled from Moscow, just as all people in Kildare do want to be ruled from London although they have spoken English for centuries. If Russian speakers were discriminated against then why would they not want to replace Zelensky with a fior-Ukrainian?
When did I "declare" that . There is a large ethnic Russian Community in Ukraine , not all speak Russian as a first Language . Alot of Ukrainians speak Russian as a first language , it doesn`t make them Russian ! ! Language alone doesn`t define who you are ! ! !
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 03:06:08 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 02:56:42 PMSo Zelensky`s term as President is over since last week , however it doesn`t look like an Election will be called . Suits the US/NATO as they have their Puppet in place . Zelensky is not that popular at the moment in Ukraine so the Polls might not be kind to him .
Interesting too that all Pro Russian Parties in Ukraine are banned , this is the kind of Democracy the US and the West likes when it gets it`s hands on you ! It leaves a large section of Ukrainian Society disenfranchised , not just in the Donbass area .
There were no elections in Britain during the war, it isn't the time for an election.
Pro Nazi parties were also banned in Britain during the war.
There aren't so many pro Russian Ukrainians now, after being bombed by them. It is a complete fallacy to declare that all Russian speakers want to be ruled from Moscow, just as all people in Kildare do want to be ruled from London although they have spoken English for centuries. If Russian speakers were discriminated against then why would they not want to replace Zelensky with a fior-Ukrainian?
You can`t compare Nazi Parties in Britain at that time with Parties in Ukraine that represent an ethnic Minority . Are you seriously telling me that The Antifascist Committee of Ukraine , The Communist Party of Ukraine and Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine are Nazi Parties :o ?
Quote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 03:41:34 PMYou can`t compare Nazi Parties in Britain at that time with Parties in Ukraine that represent an ethnic Minority . Are you seriously telling me that The Antifascist Committee of Ukraine , The Communist Party of Ukraine and Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine are Nazi Parties :o ?
These parties are not banned for representing anyone, they are banned because they supported the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Any group which seeks progress though a foreign power invading rather than through winning elections cannot be characterised as a political party in a democratic state.
Will you be proud to send our sons and daughters to the Russian front lads? Powers that be want to move us away from remaining neutral (see Barry Andrews MEP 2022 Doc)
https://x.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1795114969433850030?t=oOd5jB-LpFA_JuEoE9hm-w&s=19 (https://x.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1795114969433850030?t=oOd5jB-LpFA_JuEoE9hm-w&s=19)
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 05:52:32 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 03:41:34 PMYou can`t compare Nazi Parties in Britain at that time with Parties in Ukraine that represent an ethnic Minority . Are you seriously telling me that The Antifascist Committee of Ukraine , The Communist Party of Ukraine and Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine are Nazi Parties :o ?
These parties are not banned for representing anyone, they are banned because they supported the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Any group which seeks progress though a foreign power invading rather than through winning elections cannot be characterised as a political party in a democratic state.
Communist Party of Ukraine banned since 2015 , Russaian SMO started 2 years ago !
The problem for Ukraine is the Narco Furher , more Ukrainain terrorism planned at the behest of his American , French , German and English Masters . His Cocaine addition is not helpful :
Ukraine is requesting antidotes and gas masks in excessive quantities, indicating plans to use toxic substances
This was announced by the head of the RKhBZ troops, Igor Kirillov.
📝 Main statements:
▪️Ukrainian neo-Nazis first used chemical weapons on May 2, 2014 during a terrorist attack in the House of Trade Unions in Odessa
▪️AFU used chemical weapons in the area of Donetsk, Bogdanovka, Gorlovka, Kremennaya and Artemovsk
▪️AFU assault groups are equipped with gas grenades
Quote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 06:24:19 PMQuote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 05:52:32 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 03:41:34 PMYou can`t compare Nazi Parties in Britain at that time with Parties in Ukraine that represent an ethnic Minority . Are you seriously telling me that The Antifascist Committee of Ukraine , The Communist Party of Ukraine and Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine are Nazi Parties :o ?
These parties are not banned for representing anyone, they are banned because they supported the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Any group which seeks progress though a foreign power invading rather than through winning elections cannot be characterised as a political party in a democratic state.
Communist Party of Ukraine banned since 2015 , Russaian SMO started 2 years ago !
Russia invaded Crimea in 2014.
If Ukraine wants gas masks than it is more likely for defence
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68941220
Quote from: theskull1 on May 28, 2024, 02:42:14 PMThe US (and whoever is influencing their politicians) has involved themselves in too many wars, coups, proxy wars for me
(it's endless) to believe anything that supports their narrative. Paranoia can be a healthy defensive position to take against outside threats, so it's not surprising to me they reacted. The lack of diplomatic engagement efforts by the west has been striking to me.
Would never call any side intrinsically good.
So I've outlined to you why Russia's NATO narrative is complete nonsense, doesn't make any sense, you can't rebut any of it and just revert to 'America bad'. That's about it. Max, Jeffrey and co. have the easiest job in the world.
p.s. It's the good guys vs the bad guys, invaded vs the invaders, victims vs the aggressors (occupiers, murderers, bombers, rapists, looters, kidnappers, head choppers, castrators, torturers). Hope that helps you.
Quote from: theskull1 on May 28, 2024, 06:21:06 PMWill you be proud to send our sons and daughters to the Russian front lads? Powers that be want to move us away from remaining neutral (see Barry Andrews MEP 2022 Doc)
https://x.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1795114969433850030?t=oOd5jB-LpFA_JuEoE9hm-w&s=19 (https://x.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1795114969433850030?t=oOd5jB-LpFA_JuEoE9hm-w&s=19)
Ukraine is not asking for boots on the ground, just military and financial aid. They can do the job themselves with the right backing. Another pro-Russian favourite from you, 'why yiz not at the front yourselves lads?'.
Why ye not in Gaza or the West Bank, Skull?
Quote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 12:03:49 PMYou don`t hear anything on Western Media about the shelling that occurred of ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine long before the war kicked off , the ethnic cleansing of these areas also . The shelling of civilian areas in Donetsk and Belgorod ( Russia ) since the start of the war either .
One of the most disturbing things is the Ukrainian Press Gangs , dragging people of the streets and forcing them into the Army . One place this has happened alot is transcarpathia a region with a large ethnic Hungarian community . To the Ukrainians it is a good way to cull the Hungarians as most of them would like the area to be part of Hungary .
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30122
https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mail/20240301/281883008288800
Independent free-thinking 'researcher' who claims you only hear pro-Ukrainian narratives from the mainstream media proceeds to cite the Irish Dail Mail and the New York Times to support his anti-Ukrainian stance on things.
Nice of you to wade into the debate with a self-own. Quite something.
A quick look at Ukraine and Ireland's history reveals:
1. Conquered by larger more powerful empire next door <check>
2. Denigration and attempted destruction of language by said empire <check>
3. Denigration and attempted destruction of culture by said empire <check>
3. Post WW1 fledging independent state snuffed out by said empire <check>
4. Artificial famine created by said empire results in death of millions <check>
Sounds very familiar.
This line popped out at me from the Palestine thread.
"Which makes it all the more galling to see anyone with an inkling of Irishness in them supporting Israel in any form."
You gave that comment a +1 Skull. Yet when it comes to Ukraine your hatred of America blinds you from the truth staring you right in the face. You should be ashamed, and not only you on this board.
p.s. Ukraine isn't the only nation suffering under that empire. Those impoverished Asian men that are fighting in Russia's new colonial war are just like the Irish men that used to fight and die in Britain's colonial wars.
What a complete strawman argument..... ashamed ::)
All of your points can be true but completely irrelevant if the US wants to use said country as their proxy to weaken their sworn enemy in a drawn out conflict.
I'm arguing that thats what the US (and Europe) is doing and Ukrainians are paying a very heavy price sadly. I don't have to love Russia to hold this view.
Quote from: theskull1 on May 28, 2024, 11:40:36 PMWhat a complete strawman argument..... ashamed ::)
All of your points can be true but completely irrelevant if the US wants to use said country as their proxy to weaken their sworn enemy in a drawn out conflict.
I'm arguing that thats what the US (and Europe) is doing and Ukrainians are paying a very heavy price sadly. I don't have to love Russia to hold this view.
This like the unionists who think we are all out to get them. Russia is a nuisance, the US is not that bothered about them. This notion that NATO is trying to destroy Russia is nonsense.
The Ukrainians want to be free, why do you object to this?
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 28, 2024, 10:30:32 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 12:03:49 PMYou don`t hear anything on Western Media about the shelling that occurred of ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine long before the war kicked off , the ethnic cleansing of these areas also . The shelling of civilian areas in Donetsk and Belgorod ( Russia ) since the start of the war either .
One of the most disturbing things is the Ukrainian Press Gangs , dragging people of the streets and forcing them into the Army . One place this has happened alot is transcarpathia a region with a large ethnic Hungarian community . To the Ukrainians it is a good way to cull the Hungarians as most of them would like the area to be part of Hungary .
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30122
https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mail/20240301/281883008288800
Independent free-thinking 'researcher' who claims you only hear pro-Ukrainian narratives from the mainstream media proceeds to cite the Irish Dail Mail and the New York Times to support his anti-Ukrainian stance on things.
Nice of you to wade into the debate with a self-own. Quite something.
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 28, 2024, 10:30:32 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 12:03:49 PMYou don`t hear anything on Western Media about the shelling that occurred of ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine long before the war kicked off , the ethnic cleansing of these areas also . The shelling of civilian areas in Donetsk and Belgorod ( Russia ) since the start of the war either .
One of the most disturbing things is the Ukrainian Press Gangs , dragging people of the streets and forcing them into the Army . One place this has happened alot is transcarpathia a region with a large ethnic Hungarian community . To the Ukrainians it is a good way to cull the Hungarians as most of them would like the area to be part of Hungary .
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30122
https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mail/20240301/281883008288800
Independent free-thinking 'researcher' who claims you only hear pro-Ukrainian narratives from the mainstream media proceeds to cite the Irish Dail Mail and the New York Times to support his anti-Ukrainian stance on things.
Nice of you to wade into the debate with a self-own. Quite something.
There`s the Kiev Post up there , a Ukrainian Newspaper telling it as it is about the Ukrainian Military Press Gangs . The Article in the Irish Dail (sic ;) ) Mail tells it as it is for a change about the Press gangs also !
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 07:10:02 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 06:24:19 PMQuote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2024, 05:52:32 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 28, 2024, 03:41:34 PMYou can`t compare Nazi Parties in Britain at that time with Parties in Ukraine that represent an ethnic Minority . Are you seriously telling me that The Antifascist Committee of Ukraine , The Communist Party of Ukraine and Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine are Nazi Parties :o ?
These parties are not banned for representing anyone, they are banned because they supported the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Any group which seeks progress though a foreign power invading rather than through winning elections cannot be characterised as a political party in a democratic state.
Communist Party of Ukraine banned since 2015 , Russaian SMO started 2 years ago !
Russia invaded Crimea in 2014.
If Ukraine wants gas masks than it is more likely for defence
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68941220
Okay ;D ;D ;D ;D
So what did we learn today Kids ?
Firstly Ukraine forcing people into the Military against their will .
Secondly Ukraine shelling civilian areas in the Donbass and Russia .
Next Zalensky`s term as President is up but he won`t step down as he knows he`s not popular with the people so will carry on as a Dictator .
Disturbingly the antidemocracy continues with Ukraine having banned Political Parties and disenfranchised an ethnic minority .
And lastly the Ukrainians are planning on using Chemicals weapons which goes against the Geneva Protocol .
Christ on a Bicycle and all this with the backing of the US and NATO . Desperate carry on !
Also today Moldovan opposition Leader Alexei Lungu was arrested after returning from a Conference in Moscow . Thankfully he was released without charge . Moldovan Government under the thumb of America just like Ukraine and Israel . US ramping up tensions in Eastern Europe ! !
Quote from: Horse Box on May 29, 2024, 01:19:23 AMSo what did we learn today Kids ?
Firstly Ukraine forcing people into the Military against their will .
Secondly Ukraine shelling civilian areas in the Donbass and Russia .
Next Zalensky`s term as President is up but he won`t step down as he knows he`s not popular with the people so will carry on as a Dictator .
Disturbingly the antidemocracy continues with Ukraine having banned Political Parties and disenfranchised an ethnic minority .
And lastly the Ukrainians are planning on using Chemicals weapons which goes against the Geneva Protocol .
Christ on a Bicycle and all this with the backing of the US and NATO . Desperate carry on !
Also today Moldovan opposition Leader Alexei Lungu was arrested after returning from a Conference in Moscow . Thankfully he was released without charge . Moldovan Government under the thumb of America just like Ukraine and Israel . US ramping up tensions in Eastern Europe ! !
We know nothing of the sort.
This is typical misuse of language. "Forcing people into the military" is usually more concisely stated as conscription and is used in Cyprus, Greece, Austria, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, and is now proposed for the UK in the current election.
Ordering gas masks does not mean that you are planning to use gas any more than ordering FP2 masks implies that you are planning to spread Covid.
And part of Moldova is occupied by Russia, of course their police want to know what someone was doing going to Moscow. This problem would not exist, as would the shelling in Donbas etc, if Russia simply stayed witin its own borders stopped invading its neighbours.
Do you agree that Russia should withdraw to its own borders?
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2024, 10:55:07 AMQuote from: Horse Box on May 29, 2024, 01:19:23 AMSo what did we learn today Kids ?
Firstly Ukraine forcing people into the Military against their will .
Secondly Ukraine shelling civilian areas in the Donbass and Russia .
Next Zalensky`s term as President is up but he won`t step down as he knows he`s not popular with the people so will carry on as a Dictator .
Disturbingly the antidemocracy continues with Ukraine having banned Political Parties and disenfranchised an ethnic minority .
And lastly the Ukrainians are planning on using Chemicals weapons which goes against the Geneva Protocol .
Christ on a Bicycle and all this with the backing of the US and NATO . Desperate carry on !
Also today Moldovan opposition Leader Alexei Lungu was arrested after returning from a Conference in Moscow . Thankfully he was released without charge . Moldovan Government under the thumb of America just like Ukraine and Israel . US ramping up tensions in Eastern Europe ! !
We know nothing of the sort.
This is typical misuse of language. "Forcing people into the military" is usually more concisely stated as conscription and is used in Cyprus, Greece, Austria, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, and is now proposed for the UK in the current election.
Ordering gas masks does not mean that you are planning to use gas any more than ordering FP2 masks implies that you are planning to spread Covid.
And part of Moldova is occupied by Russia, of course their police want to know what someone was doing going to Moscow. This problem would not exist, as would the shelling in Donbas etc, if Russia simply stayed witin its own borders stopped invading its neighbours.
Do you agree that Russia should withdraw to its own borders?
So much nonsense here . Their is plenty of Video evidence of Military picking men of the street and forcing them into vans and some Videos where men and locals have fought back to stop the Fascists from abducting people .
Transnistria is an independent republic with its own government , most people in the area wants closer ties with Russia even the ethnic Ukrainians living there .
Russia has the right to defend their people in Ukraine who have been discriminated against for years by a Right Wing Regime aided by the US/NATO .
Video below ( hope it plays ) of Ukrainian Military thugs in Dnepropetrovsk , tried to force a Bloke into a Van but they ended up getting attacked by locals and the Chap escaped on a Bike !
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/111880
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2024, 10:55:07 AMQuote from: Horse Box on May 29, 2024, 01:19:23 AMSo what did we learn today Kids ?
Firstly Ukraine forcing people into the Military against their will .
Secondly Ukraine shelling civilian areas in the Donbass and Russia .
Next Zalensky`s term as President is up but he won`t step down as he knows he`s not popular with the people so will carry on as a Dictator .
Disturbingly the antidemocracy continues with Ukraine having banned Political Parties and disenfranchised an ethnic minority .
And lastly the Ukrainians are planning on using Chemicals weapons which goes against the Geneva Protocol .
Christ on a Bicycle and all this with the backing of the US and NATO . Desperate carry on !
Also today Moldovan opposition Leader Alexei Lungu was arrested after returning from a Conference in Moscow . Thankfully he was released without charge . Moldovan Government under the thumb of America just like Ukraine and Israel . US ramping up tensions in Eastern Europe ! !
We know nothing of the sort.
This is typical misuse of language. "Forcing people into the military" is usually more concisely stated as conscription and is used in Cyprus, Greece, Austria, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, and is now proposed for the UK in the current election.
Ordering gas masks does not mean that you are planning to use gas any more than ordering FP2 masks implies that you are planning to spread Covid.
And part of Moldova is occupied by Russia, of course their police want to know what someone was doing going to Moscow. This problem would not exist, as would the shelling in Donbas etc, if Russia simply stayed witin its own borders stopped invading its neighbours.
Do you agree that Russia should withdraw to its own borders?
The shelling of Civilian areas by Ukraine/US/NATO is okay with you then ?
Very good discussion here that I would urge anyone questioning wtaf is going on in the world to listen to (feel free to come to your own conclusions)
Tucker Carlson - Jeffrey Sachs with probably the smartest and most accurate assessment of the Ukraine war, and American foreign policy more broadly, ever caught on tape. (https://x.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1795500379578253729?t=XQWYrgX9EnnxJcHA0Cq0mg&s=19)
(20:17) Why did America push for Ukraine to Join NATO?
(58:34) What is a Neocon?
(1:25:28) Regime Change Never Works
(1:36:27) Who Blew up the Nord Stream Pipeline?
(2:01:45) COVID Origins
Quote from: Horse Box on May 29, 2024, 11:38:20 AMThe shelling of Civilian areas by Ukraine/US/NATO is okay with you then ?
No, of course it is not. Some things will occur in a war that should not and they should be stopped as far as possible. However, the bulk of the blame lies with the country that started the war by invading another one and the war can be stopped by that county withdrawing its forces.
In the twilight zone rambling that we are seeing here, there is a lot of crap about America encouraging Ukraine to join NATO. As far as I know, nobody has ever said that Ukraine should join NATO, but the Ukrainians want to join. In the 1990s Ukraine decommissioned its nuclear weapons and much of its munitions, and it received security guarantees from the US and Russia. Given that Russia has shown every intention of reneging on its agreement Ukraine inevitably sought protection from their other guarantor, WTF do you expect them to do? Lie down and let Russia occupy them?
Ukraine allowed to hit some targets in Russia with US weapons
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy770l9llnzo (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy770l9llnzo)
Who do you think is moving us close to nuclear ammaghedon?
Russia invaded Ukraine,end off! Where all the Russian cheerleaders come out off?. All these smaller countries want to join NATO excately because of aggression from their bully boy neighbour. Ask any Polish person living in Ireland what they think of Russia.To them they been under threat from Russia for yrs. Naturally NATO could do without any of these smaller countries, they provide little benefit, but they want the support of bigger countries like France and Germany, due to the previous history of the way communist Russia behaves.
US and many posters here are all in on bringing us closer to nuclear disaster. It's the only way it seems :o
Quote from: theskull1 on May 31, 2024, 09:57:24 AMUS and many posters here are all in on bringing us closer to nuclear disaster. It's the only way it seems :o
What do you suggest? Let Russia occupy anywhere that takes its fancy?
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2024, 10:04:46 AMQuote from: theskull1 on May 31, 2024, 09:57:24 AMUS and many posters here are all in on bringing us closer to nuclear disaster. It's the only way it seems :o
What do you suggest? Let Russia occupy anywhere that takes its fancy?
Brits and Americans do it so why not?
Quote from: Brendan on May 31, 2024, 10:12:43 AMQuote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2024, 10:04:46 AMQuote from: theskull1 on May 31, 2024, 09:57:24 AMUS and many posters here are all in on bringing us closer to nuclear disaster. It's the only way it seems :o
What do you suggest? Let Russia occupy anywhere that takes its fancy?
Brits and Americans do it so why not?
2 wrongs don't make a right?
But good approach ;D
Same people here who are cheering on Putin will tell you Chavez was a great leader in Venezuela because he stood up to the US. Forget about the fact the country is/was a kleptocratic police state that violently repressed its own citizens.
Another 'one side bad other side good' post .....jesus ::)
Who here is 'cheering on' Putin?
Side point ....
You people are so blinkered you can't even see the hypocrisy when making these stupid statements as if it's got anything to do with this conflict (thinking of all those allies of the US who violently represses its own citizens .... a very very long list)
Perhaps you weren't around the gaaboard at the time theskull1, but there was pretty much unanimous opposition to and condemnation here of the actions of the US in the Middle East in the 2000s.
Just because the US are correctly, at least until next January, supporting the Ukrainians, doesn't mean that people can't at the same time remember and condemn their violent and destabilizing actions around the world in the past.
American politicians present during the Maidan revolution .... totally normal and not destabilizing or in any way coup like.
No one does regime change like the US
Project for the New American Century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century)
Foreign Policy Initiative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Policy_Initiative)
Quote from: theskull1 on May 31, 2024, 02:03:27 PMAmerican politicians present during the Maidan revolution .... totally normal and not destabilizing or in any way coup like.
No one does regime change like the US
Project for the New American Century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century)
Foreign Policy Initiative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Policy_Initiative)
What exactly is wrong with any democratic country supporting democracy in another country? We should all do so.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 30, 2024, 06:43:28 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 29, 2024, 11:38:20 AMThe shelling of Civilian areas by Ukraine/US/NATO is okay with you then ?
No, of course it is not. Some things will occur in a war that should not and they should be stopped as far as possible. However, the bulk of the blame lies with the country that started the war by invading another one and the war can be stopped by that county withdrawing its forces.
In the twilight zone rambling that we are seeing here, there is a lot of crap about America encouraging Ukraine to join NATO. As far as I know, nobody has ever said that Ukraine should join NATO, but the Ukrainians want to join. In the 1990s Ukraine decommissioned its nuclear weapons and much of its munitions, and it received security guarantees from the US and Russia. Given that Russia has shown every intention of reneging on its agreement Ukraine inevitably sought protection from their other guarantor, WTF do you expect them to do? Lie down and let Russia occupy them?
:P https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-ukraine-must-join-nato/
Quote from: armaghniac on May 30, 2024, 06:43:28 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 29, 2024, 11:38:20 AMThe shelling of Civilian areas by Ukraine/US/NATO is okay with you then ?
No, of course it is not. Some things will occur in a war that should not and they should be stopped as far as possible. However, the bulk of the blame lies with the country that started the war by invading another one and the war can be stopped by that county withdrawing its forces.
In the twilight zone rambling that we are seeing here, there is a lot of crap about America encouraging Ukraine to join NATO. As far as I know, nobody has ever said that Ukraine should join NATO, but the Ukrainians want to join. In the 1990s Ukraine decommissioned its nuclear weapons and much of its munitions, and it received security guarantees from the US and Russia. Given that Russia has shown every intention of reneging on its agreement Ukraine inevitably sought protection from their other guarantor, WTF do you expect them to do? Lie down and let Russia occupy them?
Ukraine gave up the Soviet nuclear weapons stationed on its soil of which Ukraine had physical but no effective operational control .
Moldova unfortunately getting taught how to do democracy just like Ukraine by their US/NATO Overlords :
https://www.eureporter.co/world/moldova/2024/05/15/moldovan-government-shuts-down-7-additional-tv-channels/
More shut down yesterday !
Quote from: theskull1 on May 31, 2024, 09:57:24 AMUS and many posters here are all in on bringing us closer to nuclear disaster. It's the only way it seems :o
100% :-\
Quote from: gallsman on May 31, 2024, 11:35:54 AMSame people here who are cheering on Putin will tell you Chavez was a great leader in Venezuela because he stood up to the US. Forget about the fact the country is/was a kleptocratic police state that violently repressed its own citizens.
What a Utopia Iran turned out to be after the Anglo/American covert operation that overthrew the Elected Government in the 1950`s !
Quote from: Horse Box on May 31, 2024, 04:22:32 PMWhat a Utopia Iran turned out to be after the Anglo/American covert operation that overthrew the Elected Government in the 1950`s !
Which of course has nothing to do Ukraine, except that Iran are supplying the materials to invade it.
Quote from: Horse Box on May 31, 2024, 04:10:13 PMQuote from: armaghniac on May 30, 2024, 06:43:28 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 29, 2024, 11:38:20 AMThe shelling of Civilian areas by Ukraine/US/NATO is okay with you then ?
No, of course it is not. Some things will occur in a war that should not and they should be stopped as far as possible. However, the bulk of the blame lies with the country that started the war by invading another one and the war can be stopped by that county withdrawing its forces.
In the twilight zone rambling that we are seeing here, there is a lot of crap about America encouraging Ukraine to join NATO. As far as I know, nobody has ever said that Ukraine should join NATO, but the Ukrainians want to join. In the 1990s Ukraine decommissioned its nuclear weapons and much of its munitions, and it received security guarantees from the US and Russia. Given that Russia has shown every intention of reneging on its agreement Ukraine inevitably sought protection from their other guarantor, WTF do you expect them to do? Lie down and let Russia occupy them?
Ukraine gave up the Soviet nuclear weapons stationed on its soil of which Ukraine had physical but no effective operational control .
And was given security guarantees by the West.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2024, 05:08:24 PMQuote from: Horse Box on May 31, 2024, 04:22:32 PMWhat a Utopia Iran turned out to be after the Anglo/American covert operation that overthrew the Elected Government in the 1950`s !
Which of course has nothing to do Ukraine, except that Iran are supplying the materials to invade it.
Maybe if the good ole US had of stayed out of it in the 50`s Iran might not be suppling anyone with weapons ;) !
Another Ukrainian happy to enlist in the Narco Fuhrer`s Army :
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/112050
Putin says he will stop the war if Ukraine surrenders
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c033eyyr20do
Surely a 'peace summit' without Russia is a complete waste of time?!
Quote from: Horse Box on June 01, 2024, 03:42:37 AMAnother Ukrainian happy to enlist in the Narco Fuhrer`s Army :
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/112050
Conscription squads send Ukrainian men into hiding (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o)
Will be the same in Ireland when EU coercion eventually breaks our neutrality status. Western elites are itching for a global conflict and they'll need cannon fodder commitments from all partners.
Irish Neutrality in a changing europe (https://assets.gov.ie/277261/c5a79fa6-cc77-4098-8154-ccec963e9511.pdf)
Quote from: theskull1 on June 17, 2024, 11:01:03 AMQuote from: Horse Box on June 01, 2024, 03:42:37 AMAnother Ukrainian happy to enlist in the Narco Fuhrer`s Army :
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/112050
Conscription squads send Ukrainian men into hiding (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o)
Will be the same in Ireland when EU coercion eventually breaks our neutrality status. Western elites are itching for a global conflict and they'll need cannon fodder commitments from all partners.
Irish Neutrality in a changing europe (https://assets.gov.ie/277261/c5a79fa6-cc77-4098-8154-ccec963e9511.pdf)
Really don't get the anti-Ukraine sentiment among some board members. Conscription is and always has been a controversial topic in every war it has ever been used in (including WW2).
Russia uses conscription as well but I don't see any criticism of it on here. Also, one side is conscripting to invade and destroy another nation, the other side is conscripting to defend itself. Big difference. If Russia goes home, no more conscription or death for either side. Guess the playboy oligarchs and their families living luxurious lives in the west don't need to worry about it so much.
p.s. the BBC? Really guys? The MSM good enough for you when the storyline suits your preconceived worldview?
Quote from: theskull1 on June 17, 2024, 11:01:03 AMWill be the same in Ireland when EU coercion eventually breaks our neutrality status. Western elites are itching for a global conflict and they'll need cannon fodder commitments from all partners.
Irish Neutrality in a changing europe (https://assets.gov.ie/277261/c5a79fa6-cc77-4098-8154-ccec963e9511.pdf)
So you do not think that there should be conscription if Ireland is invaded by Russia?
Quote from: armaghniac on June 17, 2024, 03:22:04 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 17, 2024, 11:01:03 AMWill be the same in Ireland when EU coercion eventually breaks our neutrality status. Western elites are itching for a global conflict and they'll need cannon fodder commitments from all partners.
Irish Neutrality in a changing europe (https://assets.gov.ie/277261/c5a79fa6-cc77-4098-8154-ccec963e9511.pdf)
So you do not think that there should be conscription if Ireland is invaded by Russia?
;D ;D ;D Christ what Planet are you living on ;D ;D ;D ? I`m sure Ireland is a prime target for Russia ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 17, 2024, 12:17:17 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 17, 2024, 11:01:03 AMQuote from: Horse Box on June 01, 2024, 03:42:37 AMAnother Ukrainian happy to enlist in the Narco Fuhrer`s Army :
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/112050
Conscription squads send Ukrainian men into hiding (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o)
Will be the same in Ireland when EU coercion eventually breaks our neutrality status. Western elites are itching for a global conflict and they'll need cannon fodder commitments from all partners.
Irish Neutrality in a changing europe (https://assets.gov.ie/277261/c5a79fa6-cc77-4098-8154-ccec963e9511.pdf)
Really don't get the anti-Ukraine sentiment among some board members. Conscription is and always has been a controversial topic in every war it has ever been used in (including WW2).
Russia uses conscription as well but I don't see any criticism of it on here. Also, one side is conscripting to invade and destroy another nation, the other side is conscripting to defend itself. Big difference. If Russia goes home, no more conscription or death for either side. Guess the playboy oligarchs and their families living luxurious lives in the west don't need to worry about it so much.
p.s. the BBC? Really guys? The MSM good enough for you when the storyline suits your preconceived worldview?
The difference is ukraine is using Press Gangs , picking people up of the streets and forcing them into Vans , taking them to recruitment centers against their will ! Plenty of videos of this going around .
Quote from: Horse Box on June 17, 2024, 04:33:29 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 17, 2024, 12:17:17 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 17, 2024, 11:01:03 AMQuote from: Horse Box on June 01, 2024, 03:42:37 AMAnother Ukrainian happy to enlist in the Narco Fuhrer`s Army :
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/112050
Conscription squads send Ukrainian men into hiding (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o)
Will be the same in Ireland when EU coercion eventually breaks our neutrality status. Western elites are itching for a global conflict and they'll need cannon fodder commitments from all partners.
Irish Neutrality in a changing europe (https://assets.gov.ie/277261/c5a79fa6-cc77-4098-8154-ccec963e9511.pdf)
Really don't get the anti-Ukraine sentiment among some board members. Conscription is and always has been a controversial topic in every war it has ever been used in (including WW2).
Russia uses conscription as well but I don't see any criticism of it on here. Also, one side is conscripting to invade and destroy another nation, the other side is conscripting to defend itself. Big difference. If Russia goes home, no more conscription or death for either side. Guess the playboy oligarchs and their families living luxurious lives in the west don't need to worry about it so much.
p.s. the BBC? Really guys? The MSM good enough for you when the storyline suits your preconceived worldview?
The difference is ukraine is using Press Gangs , picking people up of the streets and forcing them into Vans , taking them to recruitment centers against their will ! Plenty of videos of this going around .
Yes, plenty of zero context videos going round of unidentified persons pulling unidentified persons into vans with zero context or proof. In each case, you, the viewer, have no idea:
1. Where the video was taken.
2. When the video was taken.
3. Who the persons doing the pulling are.
4. Who the person being pulled is.
5. Why they are being pulled into the van.
All you've got is some grainy clip, that for all you know could be in Russia, because you're relying on the Russian propagandist's word that it's in Ukraine. The truth is, you haven't a clue. You believe it because you want to.
Russia has used press gangs since their mobilisation began. They have also disproportionally used ethnic minorities from the most impoverished regions of the Russian Empire. Those are the Buryats etc. that make up the majority of the cargo 200s. They have also emptied their prisons and sent the worst sort of scum to Ukraine. I dread to think what is happening in the occupied territories with the rapists and serial killers in uniform there.
So the actual difference, as I previously stated, is that Ukraine is using conscription to defend itself from annihilation, Russia is using conscription to attempt genocide in Ukraine. Big difference.
Quote from: Horse Box on June 17, 2024, 04:26:36 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 17, 2024, 03:22:04 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 17, 2024, 11:01:03 AMWill be the same in Ireland when EU coercion eventually breaks our neutrality status. Western elites are itching for a global conflict and they'll need cannon fodder commitments from all partners.
Irish Neutrality in a changing europe (https://assets.gov.ie/277261/c5a79fa6-cc77-4098-8154-ccec963e9511.pdf)
So you do not think that there should be conscription if Ireland is invaded by Russia?
;D ;D ;D Christ what Planet are you living on ;D ;D ;D ? I`m sure Ireland is a prime target for Russia ;D ;D ;D
No, But Ukraine is a prime target for Russia.
So you support the US led coup in 2014, empathize with the pro Ukrainian side in regard to the 8 years unrest in the
Russian speaking east and finally see it as totally normal for NATO to be performing military exercises in 2021 ..... and this in one of the most corrupt countries on the planet heavily funded dubiously for all these years by the US.
No one needs to be pro Russian to see the willful blindness in anyone holding these positions. This isn't an either/or thing. Geo political chess pieces are on the move and the US is doing most of the goading with the EU elites in lock step. If this conflict gets out of hand, it will go global (more than likely in that event will go nuclear) and Irelands sons and daughters will be needed then. The lack of good faith diplomatic efforts (only forced conscription and funding for more weapons) should be raising alarm bells for everyone.
Quote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 08:58:24 AMSo you support the US led coup in 2014, empathize with the pro Ukrainian side in regard to the 8 years unrest in the
Russian speaking east and finally see it as totally normal for NATO to be performing military exercises in 2021 ..... and this in one of the most corrupt countries on the planet heavily funded dubiously for all these years by the US.
No one needs to be pro Russian to see the willful blindness in anyone holding these positions. This isn't an either/or thing. Geo political chess pieces are on the move and the US is doing most of the goading with the EU elites in lock step. If this conflict gets out of hand, it will go global (more than likely in that event will go nuclear) and Irelands sons and daughters will be needed then. The lack of good faith diplomatic efforts (only forced conscription and funding for more weapons) should be raising alarm bells for everyone.
Do you think Hitler was right to take over the Sudetenland from the Czech's or Annex German speaking Austria?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 18, 2024, 09:28:03 AMQuote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 08:58:24 AMSo you support the US led coup in 2014, empathize with the pro Ukrainian side in regard to the 8 years unrest in the
Russian speaking east and finally see it as totally normal for NATO to be performing military exercises in 2021 ..... and this in one of the most corrupt countries on the planet heavily funded dubiously for all these years by the US.
No one needs to be pro Russian to see the willful blindness in anyone holding these positions. This isn't an either/or thing. Geo political chess pieces are on the move and the US is doing most of the goading with the EU elites in lock step. If this conflict gets out of hand, it will go global (more than likely in that event will go nuclear) and Irelands sons and daughters will be needed then. The lack of good faith diplomatic efforts (only forced conscription and funding for more weapons) should be raising alarm bells for everyone.
Do you think Hitler was right to take over the Sudetenland from the Czech's or Annex German speaking Austria?
No doubt he also thinks that it is fine for Britain to reinvade Ireland as we speak English or Spain to reconquer South America.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 18, 2024, 10:45:06 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 18, 2024, 09:28:03 AMQuote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 08:58:24 AMSo you support the US led coup in 2014, empathize with the pro Ukrainian side in regard to the 8 years unrest in the
Russian speaking east and finally see it as totally normal for NATO to be performing military exercises in 2021 ..... and this in one of the most corrupt countries on the planet heavily funded dubiously for all these years by the US.
No one needs to be pro Russian to see the willful blindness in anyone holding these positions. This isn't an either/or thing. Geo political chess pieces are on the move and the US is doing most of the goading with the EU elites in lock step. If this conflict gets out of hand, it will go global (more than likely in that event will go nuclear) and Irelands sons and daughters will be needed then. The lack of good faith diplomatic efforts (only forced conscription and funding for more weapons) should be raising alarm bells for everyone.
Do you think Hitler was right to take over the Sudetenland from the Czech's or Annex German speaking Austria?
No doubt he also thinks that it is fine for Britain to reinvade Ireland as we speak English or Spain to reconquer South America.
You may think that theskull holds those views and maybe he does but the quoted post does not say he thinks or supports the Russian invasion and occupation of Ukraine.
Quote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 08:58:24 AMSo you support the US led coup in 2014, empathize with the pro Ukrainian side in regard to the 8 years unrest in the
Russian speaking east and finally see it as totally normal for NATO to be performing military exercises in 2021 ..... and this in one of the most corrupt countries on the planet heavily funded dubiously for all these years by the US.
No one needs to be pro Russian to see the willful blindness in anyone holding these positions. This isn't an either/or thing. Geo political chess pieces are on the move and the US is doing most of the goading with the EU elites in lock step. If this conflict gets out of hand, it will go global (more than likely in that event will go nuclear) and Irelands sons and daughters will be needed then. The lack of good faith diplomatic efforts (only forced conscription and funding for more weapons) should be raising alarm bells for everyone.
It's hard to believe that people still hold these beliefs 10 years after Russia invaded Ukraine.
First of all there wasn't a coup in Ukraine. I find remarkable that you complain about corruption in Ukraine but slander the hundreds of thousands of ordinary Ukrainians who put their lives on the line protesting against the most corrupt president in Ukraine's history who is estimated to have stolen up to $100Bn of the country's reserves.
Yes, there was corruption in Ukraine and still is. It's the legacy of the collapse of the USSR. The difference between Ukraine and Russia is that Ukraine is trying to root out corruption and Russia is more or less a mafia state with a mafia Don sitting on top. The Ukraine-EU Association Agreement that was never implemented would also have required Ukraine to 'clean up' it's act.
As for the agreement, Yanukovich ran his election campaigning on the basis he would move Ukraine closer to the EU. He negotiated the Ukraine EU Association Agreement with the EU. The Ukrainian parliament ratified the agreement. Yanukovich travelled to Vilnius to sign the agreement...and then announced he won't sign it and is going to sign agreement with the mafia state next door instead. And you wonder why students who saw their future disappearing in front of their very eyes came out to protest.
Yanukovych set the Berkut on those students and the rest is history. Btw, I can preempt the rest:
1.The US was co-guarantor of Ukraine's sovereignty (Budapest Memorandum) and had every right to be involved in negotiations between the protestors and Yanukovych.
2. Sandwiches don't mean the CIA was involved.
3. Nuland was talking about who the US would prefer to be Prime Minister (for longevity and stability) alongside Yanukovych, in a deal Yanukovych himself brokered.
4. Yanukovych was impeached by the Ukrainian parliament.
5. Yanikovych was still president when he chose to run back to his master.
6. Look up the definition of a coup.
Happy to debate anything above with you.
Oh almost forgot, if you knew anything about Ukraine or had ever travelled there or spoken to a Ukrainian you would know that speaking the Russian language is not a marker for national or ethnic identity. (see also Ireland).
Walk through the scenario of senior Russian politicians handing out food on Jan 6th .... "wasn't a coup" ::)
The US have no issue supporting despotic regimes as long as they're in alignment with their strategic goals so lets not infer that America is motivated by "protecting democracy". It's not unreasonable to suggest as you say that Russia plays the same game. Ukraine is the chessboard and Ukrainian/Russian soldiers are the pawns for what ultimately is a US proxy war with Russia. We are living in an ugly world.
Quote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 11:17:53 AMWalk through the scenario of senior Russian politicians handing out food on Jan 6th .... "wasn't a coup" ::)
The US have no issue supporting despotic regimes as long as they're in alignment with their strategic goals so lets not infer that America is motivated by "protecting democracy". It's not unreasonable to suggest as you say that Russia plays the same game. Ukraine is the chessboard and Ukrainian/Russian soldiers are the pawns for what ultimately is a US proxy war with Russia. We are living in an ugly world.
Of all the (incorrect) arguments I've seen people make towards the (incorrect) coup hypothesis, handing out sandwiches to protestors as proof of a coup is the most bizarre take I think I've heard. Seriously.
Do you have any evidence of this coup, other than 'sandwiches'?
As usual westerners completely and arrogantly dismiss the opinions and aspirations of Ukrainians. The US/CIA does not have the power to make hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians take to the streets.
If we stick to the main topic.. Why did Russia invade another country?
What reason did they give?
Putin espoused irredentist views challenging Ukraine's right to exist, and falsely claimed that Ukraine was governed by neo-Nazis persecuting the Russian minority. He said his goal was to "demilitarise and denazify" Ukraine..
Is this true?
Quote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 11:17:53 AMWalk through the scenario of senior Russian politicians handing out food on Jan 6th .... "wasn't a coup" ::)
The US have no issue supporting despotic regimes as long as they're in alignment with their strategic goals so lets not infer that America is motivated by "protecting democracy". It's not unreasonable to suggest as you say that Russia plays the same game. Ukraine is the chessboard and Ukrainian/Russian soldiers are the pawns for what ultimately is a US proxy war with Russia. We are living in an ugly world.
What does the US support for despotic regimes have to do with Ukraine, which is not a despotic regime?
You might as well say that the GFA is evil because the US supports it and they support despotic regimes.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 17, 2024, 05:14:29 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 17, 2024, 04:33:29 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 17, 2024, 12:17:17 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 17, 2024, 11:01:03 AMQuote from: Horse Box on June 01, 2024, 03:42:37 AMAnother Ukrainian happy to enlist in the Narco Fuhrer`s Army :
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/112050
Conscription squads send Ukrainian men into hiding (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o)
Will be the same in Ireland when EU coercion eventually breaks our neutrality status. Western elites are itching for a global conflict and they'll need cannon fodder commitments from all partners.
Irish Neutrality in a changing europe (https://assets.gov.ie/277261/c5a79fa6-cc77-4098-8154-ccec963e9511.pdf)
Really don't get the anti-Ukraine sentiment among some board members. Conscription is and always has been a controversial topic in every war it has ever been used in (including WW2).
Russia uses conscription as well but I don't see any criticism of it on here. Also, one side is conscripting to invade and destroy another nation, the other side is conscripting to defend itself. Big difference. If Russia goes home, no more conscription or death for either side. Guess the playboy oligarchs and their families living luxurious lives in the west don't need to worry about it so much.
p.s. the BBC? Really guys? The MSM good enough for you when the storyline suits your preconceived worldview?
The difference is ukraine is using Press Gangs , picking people up of the streets and forcing them into Vans , taking them to recruitment centers against their will ! Plenty of videos of this going around .
Yes, plenty of zero context videos going round of unidentified persons pulling unidentified persons into vans with zero context or proof. In each case, you, the viewer, have no idea:
1. Where the video was taken.
2. When the video was taken.
3. Who the persons doing the pulling are.
4. Who the person being pulled is.
5. Why they are being pulled into the van.
All you've got is some grainy clip, that for all you know could be in Russia, because you're relying on the Russian propagandist's word that it's in Ukraine. The truth is, you haven't a clue. You believe it because you want to.
Russia has used press gangs since their mobilisation began. They have also disproportionally used ethnic minorities from the most impoverished regions of the Russian Empire. Those are the Buryats etc. that make up the majority of the cargo 200s. They have also emptied their prisons and sent the worst sort of scum to Ukraine. I dread to think what is happening in the occupied territories with the rapists and serial killers in uniform there.
So the actual difference, as I previously stated, is that Ukraine is using conscription to defend itself from annihilation, Russia is using conscription to attempt genocide in Ukraine. Big difference.
Street Names , Business names , Accents and of course Geo Location will tell you where the thuggery has taken place and it is done by recruitment officers .
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-needs-soldiers-fight-russia-men-dodging-draft-zelenskyy-rcna152121
Quote from: Horse Box on June 18, 2024, 04:21:47 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 17, 2024, 05:14:29 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 17, 2024, 04:33:29 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 17, 2024, 12:17:17 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 17, 2024, 11:01:03 AMQuote from: Horse Box on June 01, 2024, 03:42:37 AMAnother Ukrainian happy to enlist in the Narco Fuhrer`s Army :
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/112050
Conscription squads send Ukrainian men into hiding (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o)
Will be the same in Ireland when EU coercion eventually breaks our neutrality status. Western elites are itching for a global conflict and they'll need cannon fodder commitments from all partners.
Irish Neutrality in a changing europe (https://assets.gov.ie/277261/c5a79fa6-cc77-4098-8154-ccec963e9511.pdf)
Really don't get the anti-Ukraine sentiment among some board members. Conscription is and always has been a controversial topic in every war it has ever been used in (including WW2).
Russia uses conscription as well but I don't see any criticism of it on here. Also, one side is conscripting to invade and destroy another nation, the other side is conscripting to defend itself. Big difference. If Russia goes home, no more conscription or death for either side. Guess the playboy oligarchs and their families living luxurious lives in the west don't need to worry about it so much.
p.s. the BBC? Really guys? The MSM good enough for you when the storyline suits your preconceived worldview?
The difference is ukraine is using Press Gangs , picking people up of the streets and forcing them into Vans , taking them to recruitment centers against their will ! Plenty of videos of this going around .
Yes, plenty of zero context videos going round of unidentified persons pulling unidentified persons into vans with zero context or proof. In each case, you, the viewer, have no idea:
1. Where the video was taken.
2. When the video was taken.
3. Who the persons doing the pulling are.
4. Who the person being pulled is.
5. Why they are being pulled into the van.
All you've got is some grainy clip, that for all you know could be in Russia, because you're relying on the Russian propagandist's word that it's in Ukraine. The truth is, you haven't a clue. You believe it because you want to.
Russia has used press gangs since their mobilisation began. They have also disproportionally used ethnic minorities from the most impoverished regions of the Russian Empire. Those are the Buryats etc. that make up the majority of the cargo 200s. They have also emptied their prisons and sent the worst sort of scum to Ukraine. I dread to think what is happening in the occupied territories with the rapists and serial killers in uniform there.
So the actual difference, as I previously stated, is that Ukraine is using conscription to defend itself from annihilation, Russia is using conscription to attempt genocide in Ukraine. Big difference.
Street Names , Business names , Accents and of course Geo Location will tell you where the thuggery has taken place and it is done by recruitment officers .
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-needs-soldiers-fight-russia-men-dodging-draft-zelenskyy-rcna152121
Your problem is that the Russian propaganda videos flying round Telegram and Twitter are very light on all of the above (zero) and very heavy on the trust me bro ;)
The accounts peddling this type of nonsense are not some sophisticated OSInt operation, just regular disinformation channels churning out garbage. They know their audience aren't checking anyway.
Example no 1 from your good self:
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/111880
What is happening here? When was this video taken?
You don't know and you have no way of finding out but job done from the Russian propagandists point of view.
A man takes a bike from a green van and cycles away. Women are standing there as well. That's it, that's the video .
It appears to be Ukraine because if it was in Russia the woman with the shopping bag would probably be in mortal danger. That is, if video was taken after 2014, which is unconfirmed. Like every other claim in the description.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:22:54 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
What's with the recent MSM love in lads? ;) Storylines matching up with your preconceived worldviews?
See my earlier comments about conscription. No one is denying Ukraine uses conscription. When you're facing annihilation from the much larger brutal neighbour next door, desperate measures are called for.
Where are all the comments criticising Russia for using conscription (to destroy another nation) from ye lads?
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 05:31:21 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:22:54 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
What's with the recent MSM love in lads? ;) Storylines matching up with your preconceived worldviews?
See my earlier comments about conscription. No one is denying Ukraine uses conscription. When you're facing annihilation from the much larger brutal neighbour next door, desperate measures are called for.
Where are all the comments criticising Russia for using conscription (to destroy another nation) from ye lads?
you spent the last numbers of posts calling it Russian propaganda so I shared another source.. and then you have the nerve to make comments about my preconceived worldview.
if someone was denying that he Russians was using conscription and kidnapping citizens or denied they released people from prison I would share a link to show them it was wrong. I haven't seen people deny that.
the occupation should end, Russia should withdraw and there should be peace... more weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 05:31:21 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:22:54 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
What's with the recent MSM love in lads? ;) Storylines matching up with your preconceived worldviews?
See my earlier comments about conscription. No one is denying Ukraine uses conscription. When you're facing annihilation from the much larger brutal neighbour next door, desperate measures are called for.
Where are all the comments criticising Russia for using conscription (to destroy another nation) from ye lads?
you spent the last numbers of posts calling it Russian propaganda so I shared another source.. and then you have the nerve to make comments about my preconceived worldview.
if someone was denying that he Russians was using conscription and kidnapping citizens or denied they released people from prison I would share a link to show them it was wrong. I haven't seen people deny that.
the occupation should end, Russia should withdraw and there should be peace... more weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
less weapons will simply result in Russia occupying the whole country.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 18, 2024, 05:49:15 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 05:31:21 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:22:54 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
What's with the recent MSM love in lads? ;) Storylines matching up with your preconceived worldviews?
See my earlier comments about conscription. No one is denying Ukraine uses conscription. When you're facing annihilation from the much larger brutal neighbour next door, desperate measures are called for.
Where are all the comments criticising Russia for using conscription (to destroy another nation) from ye lads?
you spent the last numbers of posts calling it Russian propaganda so I shared another source.. and then you have the nerve to make comments about my preconceived worldview.
if someone was denying that he Russians was using conscription and kidnapping citizens or denied they released people from prison I would share a link to show them it was wrong. I haven't seen people deny that.
the occupation should end, Russia should withdraw and there should be peace... more weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
less weapons will simply result in Russia occupying the whole country.
not if there is peace, where are your calls for other occupied countries to get more weapons.. or sorry its more complex isn't it!!!
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:53:10 PMnot if there is peace, where are your calls for other occupied countries to get more weapons.. or sorry its more complex isn't it!!!
In a thread about Ukraine, I don't need to justify the situation in every other conflict in the world and asking for this is merely whataboutery.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 18, 2024, 07:23:39 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:53:10 PMnot if there is peace, where are your calls for other occupied countries to get more weapons.. or sorry its more complex isn't it!!!
In a thread about Ukraine, I don't need to justify the situation in every other conflict in the world and asking for this is merely whataboutery.
Should I have used one of your hypothetical scenarios instead..
I think you should to able to justify why in one occupation its ok to arm the occupied and in another its not.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 05:31:21 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:22:54 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
What's with the recent MSM love in lads? ;) Storylines matching up with your preconceived worldviews?
See my earlier comments about conscription. No one is denying Ukraine uses conscription. When you're facing annihilation from the much larger brutal neighbour next door, desperate measures are called for.
Where are all the comments criticising Russia for using conscription (to destroy another nation) from ye lads?
you spent the last numbers of posts calling it Russian propaganda so I shared another source.. and then you have the nerve to make comments about my preconceived worldview.
if someone was denying that he Russians was using conscription and kidnapping citizens or denied they released people from prison I would share a link to show them it was wrong. I haven't seen people deny that.
the occupation should end, Russia should withdraw and there should be peace... more weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
Russia and Ukraine both use conscription. No one here is arguing the point as far as I'm aware. Ukraine to defend itself from annihilation, Russia to wipe the Ukrainian state off the map and forcibly make the Ukrainians realise they are really Russian (genocide).
I've no problem with you using the BBC for a source, I just find it amusing to see the biased untrustworthy western MSM being cited by someone with an obvious anti-US/NATO position on Ukraine. Are the western MSM to be trusted now?
As for the purported videos of press gangs. They are completely useless as a source for anything for the reasons I've already outlined.
I find your stance on arms either completely naive or disingenuous. As others have stated - without western arms Russia would have already defeated Ukraine and set about destroying their society.
As for peace - no Russian invasion -> peace. Russian withdrawal from Ukraine -> peace. They can end it tomorrow.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:37:49 AMQuote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 11:17:53 AMWalk through the scenario of senior Russian politicians handing out food on Jan 6th .... "wasn't a coup" ::)
The US have no issue supporting despotic regimes as long as they're in alignment with their strategic goals so lets not infer that America is motivated by "protecting democracy". It's not unreasonable to suggest as you say that Russia plays the same game. Ukraine is the chessboard and Ukrainian/Russian soldiers are the pawns for what ultimately is a US proxy war with Russia. We are living in an ugly world.
Of all the (incorrect) arguments I've seen people make towards the (incorrect) coup hypothesis, handing out sandwiches to protestors as proof of a coup is the most bizarre take I think I've heard. Seriously.
Do you have any evidence of this coup, other than 'sandwiches'?
As usual westerners completely and arrogantly dismiss the opinions and aspirations of Ukrainians. The US/CIA does not have the power to make hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians take to the streets.
How would MSM define it if senior Russian diplomats/politicians were around Washington in Jan 2021, speaking with pro trump Republicans? You're some craic ::)
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 09:44:07 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 05:31:21 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:22:54 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
What's with the recent MSM love in lads? ;) Storylines matching up with your preconceived worldviews?
See my earlier comments about conscription. No one is denying Ukraine uses conscription. When you're facing annihilation from the much larger brutal neighbour next door, desperate measures are called for.
Where are all the comments criticising Russia for using conscription (to destroy another nation) from ye lads?
you spent the last numbers of posts calling it Russian propaganda so I shared another source.. and then you have the nerve to make comments about my preconceived worldview.
if someone was denying that he Russians was using conscription and kidnapping citizens or denied they released people from prison I would share a link to show them it was wrong. I haven't seen people deny that.
the occupation should end, Russia should withdraw and there should be peace... more weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
Russia and Ukraine both use conscription. No one here is arguing the point as far as I'm aware. Ukraine to defend itself from annihilation, Russia to wipe the Ukrainian state off the map and forcibly make the Ukrainians realise they are really Russian (genocide).
I've no problem with you using the BBC for a source, I just find it amusing to see the biased untrustworthy western MSM being cited by someone with an obvious anti-US/NATO position on Ukraine. Are the western MSM to be trusted now?
As for the purported videos of press gangs. They are completely useless as a source for anything for the reasons I've already outlined.
I find your stance on arms either completely naive or disingenuous. As others have stated - without western arms Russia would have already defeated Ukraine and set about destroying their society.
As for peace - no Russian invasion -> peace. Russian withdrawal from Ukraine -> peace. They can end it tomorrow.
forcibly make the Ukrainians realise they are really Russian = wrong forcibly make the Ukrainians fight In the war = ok
I am pro peace which in many ways makes me anti nato/anti Us/anti Russia/ anti Israeli.
I used the BBC as its a source I felt you wouldn't dispute, but I agree they can be deeply untrustworthy, you can believe what you want that suits your worldview!
Again peace would end the war, its naive imo to think more weapons will end the war.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PMmore weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
No more weapons would tend toward a lot more dead Ukrainians imo
Quote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 09:54:11 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:37:49 AMQuote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 11:17:53 AMWalk through the scenario of senior Russian politicians handing out food on Jan 6th .... "wasn't a coup" ::)
The US have no issue supporting despotic regimes as long as they're in alignment with their strategic goals so lets not infer that America is motivated by "protecting democracy". It's not unreasonable to suggest as you say that Russia plays the same game. Ukraine is the chessboard and Ukrainian/Russian soldiers are the pawns for what ultimately is a US proxy war with Russia. We are living in an ugly world.
Of all the (incorrect) arguments I've seen people make towards the (incorrect) coup hypothesis, handing out sandwiches to protestors as proof of a coup is the most bizarre take I think I've heard. Seriously.
Do you have any evidence of this coup, other than 'sandwiches'?
As usual westerners completely and arrogantly dismiss the opinions and aspirations of Ukrainians. The US/CIA does not have the power to make hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians take to the streets.
How would MSM define it if senior Russian diplomats/politicians were around Washington in Jan 2021, speaking with pro trump Republicans? You're some craic ::)
I don't really care how the MSM would define your hypothetical scenario tbh.
Do you have any evidence for the purported 'coup' yet apart from a few hang sangwidges? Your sandwich thing is completely bizarre btw.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2024, 10:17:32 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PMmore weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
No more weapons would tend toward a lot more dead Ukrainians imo
not if there are efforts towards peace, now over 2 years in...
are you calling for more weapons for palestinans to prevents their deaths or are you calling for a ceasefire?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 10:05:01 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 09:44:07 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 05:31:21 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:22:54 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
What's with the recent MSM love in lads? ;) Storylines matching up with your preconceived worldviews?
See my earlier comments about conscription. No one is denying Ukraine uses conscription. When you're facing annihilation from the much larger brutal neighbour next door, desperate measures are called for.
Where are all the comments criticising Russia for using conscription (to destroy another nation) from ye lads?
you spent the last numbers of posts calling it Russian propaganda so I shared another source.. and then you have the nerve to make comments about my preconceived worldview.
if someone was denying that he Russians was using conscription and kidnapping citizens or denied they released people from prison I would share a link to show them it was wrong. I haven't seen people deny that.
the occupation should end, Russia should withdraw and there should be peace... more weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
Russia and Ukraine both use conscription. No one here is arguing the point as far as I'm aware. Ukraine to defend itself from annihilation, Russia to wipe the Ukrainian state off the map and forcibly make the Ukrainians realise they are really Russian (genocide).
I've no problem with you using the BBC for a source, I just find it amusing to see the biased untrustworthy western MSM being cited by someone with an obvious anti-US/NATO position on Ukraine. Are the western MSM to be trusted now?
As for the purported videos of press gangs. They are completely useless as a source for anything for the reasons I've already outlined.
I find your stance on arms either completely naive or disingenuous. As others have stated - without western arms Russia would have already defeated Ukraine and set about destroying their society.
As for peace - no Russian invasion -> peace. Russian withdrawal from Ukraine -> peace. They can end it tomorrow.
forcibly make the Ukrainians realise they are really Russian = wrong forcibly make the Ukrainians fight In the war = ok
I am pro peace which in many ways makes me anti nato/anti Us/anti Russia/ anti Israeli.
I used the BBC as its a source I felt you wouldn't dispute, but I agree they can be deeply untrustworthy, you can believe what you want that suits your worldview!
Again peace would end the war, its naive imo to think more weapons will end the war.
Conscription is a really horrible thing but let's be clear, it only exists in Ukraine because of the desperate situation Ukraine finds itself in.
Russia is responsible for that situation.
If Ukraine has no army they will lose the war, simple as that - we've all seen what that means, more torture, more rapes, more abduction of children, more murders. Ukraine will cease to exist.
Peace would end the war, sure. But Russia isn't interested in peace, just Ukrainian surrender.
You're blaming the victim. For someone who claims to be anti-Russia you do seem to spend a lot of time attacking Ukraine.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 10:25:41 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2024, 10:17:32 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PMmore weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
No more weapons would tend toward a lot more dead Ukrainians imo
not if there are efforts towards peace, now over 2 years in...
are you calling for more weapons for palestinans to prevents their deaths or are you calling for a ceasefire?
Russia recently expressed their PRECONDITIONS for peace talks - Ukrainian surrender. They aren't even pretending to be serious.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 10:35:47 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 10:05:01 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 09:44:07 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 05:31:21 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:22:54 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
What's with the recent MSM love in lads? ;) Storylines matching up with your preconceived worldviews?
See my earlier comments about conscription. No one is denying Ukraine uses conscription. When you're facing annihilation from the much larger brutal neighbour next door, desperate measures are called for.
Where are all the comments criticising Russia for using conscription (to destroy another nation) from ye lads?
you spent the last numbers of posts calling it Russian propaganda so I shared another source.. and then you have the nerve to make comments about my preconceived worldview.
if someone was denying that he Russians was using conscription and kidnapping citizens or denied they released people from prison I would share a link to show them it was wrong. I haven't seen people deny that.
the occupation should end, Russia should withdraw and there should be peace... more weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
Russia and Ukraine both use conscription. No one here is arguing the point as far as I'm aware. Ukraine to defend itself from annihilation, Russia to wipe the Ukrainian state off the map and forcibly make the Ukrainians realise they are really Russian (genocide).
I've no problem with you using the BBC for a source, I just find it amusing to see the biased untrustworthy western MSM being cited by someone with an obvious anti-US/NATO position on Ukraine. Are the western MSM to be trusted now?
As for the purported videos of press gangs. They are completely useless as a source for anything for the reasons I've already outlined.
I find your stance on arms either completely naive or disingenuous. As others have stated - without western arms Russia would have already defeated Ukraine and set about destroying their society.
As for peace - no Russian invasion -> peace. Russian withdrawal from Ukraine -> peace. They can end it tomorrow.
forcibly make the Ukrainians realise they are really Russian = wrong forcibly make the Ukrainians fight In the war = ok
I am pro peace which in many ways makes me anti nato/anti Us/anti Russia/ anti Israeli.
I used the BBC as its a source I felt you wouldn't dispute, but I agree they can be deeply untrustworthy, you can believe what you want that suits your worldview!
Again peace would end the war, its naive imo to think more weapons will end the war.
Conscription is a really horrible thing but let's be clear, it only exists in Ukraine because of the desperate situation Ukraine finds itself in.
Russia is responsible for that situation.
If Ukraine has no army they will lose the war, simple as that - we've all seen what that means, more torture, more rapes, more abduction of children, more murders. Ukraine will cease to exist.
Peace would end the war, sure. But Russia isn't interested in peace, just Ukrainian surrender.
You're blaming the victim. For someone who claims to be anti-Russia you do seem to spend a lot of time attacking Ukraine.
I dont think I've attacked Ukraine or blamed the victim the only thing I have done is suggest that peace is a better option to more War.
I understand that this to you and other means I don't blame Russia for the occupation or believe that they should withdraw and hate Ukraine but that is not true.
it also does not make conscription and some of the methods the Ukrainians are using as any more agreeable.
Russia might be interested in peace but weren't invited to a peace conference, they also set out (totally unrealistic imo) peace negotiation terms, you can completely dismiss it but I don't see war ending this, only negotiations.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 10:48:18 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 10:35:47 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 10:05:01 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 09:44:07 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 05:31:21 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:22:54 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
What's with the recent MSM love in lads? ;) Storylines matching up with your preconceived worldviews?
See my earlier comments about conscription. No one is denying Ukraine uses conscription. When you're facing annihilation from the much larger brutal neighbour next door, desperate measures are called for.
Where are all the comments criticising Russia for using conscription (to destroy another nation) from ye lads?
you spent the last numbers of posts calling it Russian propaganda so I shared another source.. and then you have the nerve to make comments about my preconceived worldview.
if someone was denying that he Russians was using conscription and kidnapping citizens or denied they released people from prison I would share a link to show them it was wrong. I haven't seen people deny that.
the occupation should end, Russia should withdraw and there should be peace... more weapons, more Ukrainians dead won't result in that, in my opinion.
Russia and Ukraine both use conscription. No one here is arguing the point as far as I'm aware. Ukraine to defend itself from annihilation, Russia to wipe the Ukrainian state off the map and forcibly make the Ukrainians realise they are really Russian (genocide).
I've no problem with you using the BBC for a source, I just find it amusing to see the biased untrustworthy western MSM being cited by someone with an obvious anti-US/NATO position on Ukraine. Are the western MSM to be trusted now?
As for the purported videos of press gangs. They are completely useless as a source for anything for the reasons I've already outlined.
I find your stance on arms either completely naive or disingenuous. As others have stated - without western arms Russia would have already defeated Ukraine and set about destroying their society.
As for peace - no Russian invasion -> peace. Russian withdrawal from Ukraine -> peace. They can end it tomorrow.
forcibly make the Ukrainians realise they are really Russian = wrong forcibly make the Ukrainians fight In the war = ok
I am pro peace which in many ways makes me anti nato/anti Us/anti Russia/ anti Israeli.
I used the BBC as its a source I felt you wouldn't dispute, but I agree they can be deeply untrustworthy, you can believe what you want that suits your worldview!
Again peace would end the war, its naive imo to think more weapons will end the war.
Conscription is a really horrible thing but let's be clear, it only exists in Ukraine because of the desperate situation Ukraine finds itself in.
Russia is responsible for that situation.
If Ukraine has no army they will lose the war, simple as that - we've all seen what that means, more torture, more rapes, more abduction of children, more murders. Ukraine will cease to exist.
Peace would end the war, sure. But Russia isn't interested in peace, just Ukrainian surrender.
You're blaming the victim. For someone who claims to be anti-Russia you do seem to spend a lot of time attacking Ukraine.
I dont think I've attacked Ukraine or blamed the victim the only thing I have done is suggest that peace is a better option to more War.
I understand that this to you and other means I don't blame Russia for the occupation or believe that they should withdraw and hate Ukraine but that is not true.
it also does not make conscription and some of the methods the Ukrainians are using as any more agreeable.
Russia might be interested in peace but weren't invited to a peace conference, they also set out (totally unrealistic imo) peace negotiation terms, you can completely dismiss it but I don't see war ending this, only negotiations.
Have you ever once on this thread attacked Russia for using conscription?
What other methods that Ukraine are using are you referring to?
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 10:21:20 PMI don't really care how the MSM would define your hypothetical scenario tbh.
Do you have any evidence for the purported 'coup' yet apart from a few hang sangwidges? Your sandwich thing is completely bizarre btw.
And I don't really care to converse with you anymore given what I see is your willful blindness to Americas involvement in Ukraine for more than a decade .... let others form their own opinions. I know fcuk all about this conflict other than what I ingest online (from as many different perspectives as I can) but I'm confident enough not to trust what MSM want us to think.
I haven't defended Russian conscription, you are defending Ukrainian conscription and press gangs/kidnapping.
i was referring to press gangs/kidnapping.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:10:38 PMI haven't defended Russian conscription, you are defending Ukrainian conscription and press gangs/kidnapping.
i was referring to press gangs/kidnapping.
I didn't ask you if you'd defended Russian conscription. I asked you if you had ever criticised Russia for using conscription (or press gangs/kidnapping as you prefer to call it). Have you?
Quote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 11:05:09 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 10:21:20 PMI don't really care how the MSM would define your hypothetical scenario tbh.
Do you have any evidence for the purported 'coup' yet apart from a few hang sangwidges? Your sandwich thing is completely bizarre btw.
And I don't really care to converse with you anymore given what I see is your willful blindness to Americas involvement in Ukraine for more than a decade .... let others form their own opinions. I know fcuk all about this conflict other than what I ingest online (from as many different perspectives as I can) but I'm confident enough not to trust what MSM want us to think.
I've asked you for evidence of an American sponsored 'coup' in Ukraine and you've given me...sandwiches.
I've outlined why the people of Ukraine took to the streets on Kyiv to rightfully protest against Yanukovych. You haven't bothered to comment on any of it. Even to disagree or say why you disagree.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:23:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:10:38 PMI haven't defended Russian conscription, you are defending Ukrainian conscription and press gangs/kidnapping.
i was referring to press gangs/kidnapping.
I didn't ask you if you'd defended Russian conscription. I asked you if you had ever criticised Russia for using conscription (or press gangs/kidnapping as you prefer to call it). Have you?
no, I haven't criticised it on this thread as no one was trying to defend it.
People should look up Victoria Nuland... her career, all the administrations she's served in and what geo political roles she's performed in (spoiler alert... she doesn't make sandwiches)
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:32:13 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:23:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:10:38 PMI haven't defended Russian conscription, you are defending Ukrainian conscription and press gangs/kidnapping.
i was referring to press gangs/kidnapping.
I didn't ask you if you'd defended Russian conscription. I asked you if you had ever criticised Russia for using conscription (or press gangs/kidnapping as you prefer to call it). Have you?
no, I haven't criticised it on this thread as no one was trying to defend it.
So no then, you haven't thought to criticise Russian conscription. You've just criticised the victim of this particular war, because they've been forced to use conscription by the actions of the Russians.
The choice facing Ukraine is a stark one - use conscription or lose this war. Lose this war and Ukraine ceases to exist.
That's all on Russia.
Quote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 11:43:56 PMPeople should look up Victoria Nuland... her career, all the administrations she's served in and what geo political roles she's performed in (spoiler alert... she doesn't make sandwiches)
Ok so you 'looked her up.' Did you find any evidence of the 'coup' yet?
Any comment on Viktor Yanukovych's contribution to the events of 2014? Ever look him up?
One side good.... Other side bad
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:51:42 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:32:13 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:23:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:10:38 PMI haven't defended Russian conscription, you are defending Ukrainian conscription and press gangs/kidnapping.
i was referring to press gangs/kidnapping.
I didn't ask you if you'd defended Russian conscription. I asked you if you had ever criticised Russia for using conscription (or press gangs/kidnapping as you prefer to call it). Have you?
no, I haven't criticised it on this thread as no one was trying to defend it.
So no then, you haven't thought to criticise Russian conscription. You've just criticised the victim of this particular war, because they've been forced to use conscription by the actions of the Russians.
The choice facing Ukraine is a stark one - use conscription or lose this war. Lose this war and Ukraine ceases to exist.
That's all on Russia.
As I explained no one was defending the Russians using conscription so there was no need to critise it, you defended conscription and the kidnapping /press gangs that Ukrainians are using so i critised it. to be clear I critise the Russians for using the same methods. I also think murder is bad for anyone who is worried by my lack of criticism of that!!!!
Ukraine will not cease to exist. If they accepted the shit peace deal that Russia offered it would still exist for example. They shouldnt accept it, Russia should withdraw etc. but there needs to be peace talks not years more war.
Quote from: theskull1 on June 18, 2024, 11:58:30 PMOne side good.... Other side bad
Did you find any evidence of the 'coup' you mentioned?
Any comment on Yanukovych's corruption, lies, treachery and betrayal of the Ukrainian people by his refusal to sign the deal he negotiated and which the Ukrainian parliament ratified?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:01:14 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:51:42 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:32:13 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:23:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:10:38 PMI haven't defended Russian conscription, you are defending Ukrainian conscription and press gangs/kidnapping.
i was referring to press gangs/kidnapping.
I didn't ask you if you'd defended Russian conscription. I asked you if you had ever criticised Russia for using conscription (or press gangs/kidnapping as you prefer to call it). Have you?
no, I haven't criticised it on this thread as no one was trying to defend it.
So no then, you haven't thought to criticise Russian conscription. You've just criticised the victim of this particular war, because they've been forced to use conscription by the actions of the Russians.
The choice facing Ukraine is a stark one - use conscription or lose this war. Lose this war and Ukraine ceases to exist.
That's all on Russia.
As I explained no one was defending the Russians using conscription so there was no need to critise it, you defended conscription and the kidnapping /press gangs that Ukrainians are using so i critised it. to be clear I critise the Russians for using the same methods. I also think murder is bad for anyone who is worried by my lack of criticism of that!!!!
Ukraine will not cease to exist. If they accepted the shit peace deal that Russia offered it would still exist for example. They shouldnt accept it, Russia should withdraw etc. but there needs to be peace talks not years more war.
Your position is some sort of imaginary moral high ground that takes no account of the circumstances facing Ukraine on the ground.
You also equate Russia's use of conscription to execute their war of choice with the Ukrainians who are forced to use conscription. This is a false equivalence and is nothing more than equating victim with aggressor.
Russia's offer of peace is not serious which at least you acknowledge. Russia already 'froze' this conflict for 8 years, freezing it again for more 'peace' talks will achieve nothing more than allowing Russia to build up again for the next offensive. Ask the Chechens, they already found out.
Gérard who joined this GAA forum just over two weeks ago to primarily discuss this topic wants to hawkishly convince you that Ukrainian men need to keeping fighting and dying in this egged on war rather than their leaders try to work for some sort peace deal. You have to wonder what drives people
Quote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2024, 07:29:16 AMGérard who joined this GAA forum just over two weeks ago to primarily discuss this topic wants to hawkishly convince you that Ukrainian men need to keeping fighting and dying in this egged on war rather than their leaders try to work for some sort peace deal. You have to wonder what drives people
Ukrainian men are fighting and dying because Russia invaded their country.
I am trying to defend Ukraine as best I can from Russian propaganda. The excuses that Russia have made for this invasion - coup, Nazis, NATO etc. are easily countered because they don't stand up to even basic scrutiny.
I understand that the pro-Russian position is deeply entrenched in people's minds after years of social media conditioning. I understand that I will never change YOUR mind but I don't see why I or others should just say nothing when you present the pro-Russian position with nothing to back it up.
You keep saying there was a coup. You haven't presented any evidence of that. I've asked you for comment on Yanukovych's betrayal - you've said nothing. Would you care to make a comment on it now? I am genuinely interested on what you might have to say about it.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 19, 2024, 12:19:22 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:01:14 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:51:42 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:32:13 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:23:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:10:38 PMI haven't defended Russian conscription, you are defending Ukrainian conscription and press gangs/kidnapping.
i was referring to press gangs/kidnapping.
I didn't ask you if you'd defended Russian conscription. I asked you if you had ever criticised Russia for using conscription (or press gangs/kidnapping as you prefer to call it). Have you?
no, I haven't criticised it on this thread as no one was trying to defend it.
So no then, you haven't thought to criticise Russian conscription. You've just criticised the victim of this particular war, because they've been forced to use conscription by the actions of the Russians.
The choice facing Ukraine is a stark one - use conscription or lose this war. Lose this war and Ukraine ceases to exist.
That's all on Russia.
As I explained no one was defending the Russians using conscription so there was no need to critise it, you defended conscription and the kidnapping /press gangs that Ukrainians are using so i critised it. to be clear I critise the Russians for using the same methods. I also think murder is bad for anyone who is worried by my lack of criticism of that!!!!
Ukraine will not cease to exist. If they accepted the shit peace deal that Russia offered it would still exist for example. They shouldnt accept it, Russia should withdraw etc. but there needs to be peace talks not years more war.
Your position is some sort of imaginary moral high ground that takes no account of the circumstances facing Ukraine on the ground.
You also equate Russia's use of conscription to execute their war of choice with the Ukrainians who are forced to use conscription. This is a false equivalence and is nothing more than equating victim with aggressor.
Russia's offer of peace is not serious which at least you acknowledge. Russia already 'froze' this conflict for 8 years, freezing it again for more 'peace' talks will achieve nothing more than allowing Russia to build up again for the next offensive. Ask the Chechens, they already found out.
My position takes account of Ukrainians more than you appeared to do as you are OK with press gangs/kidnapping and senting them off to die.
I take a similar position with the Palestinians. I have not seen you advocate for them to continue the fighting and receive weapons and funding from the West. Like most people you are likely calling for a ceasefire and a negotiated peace, its not a moral high ground.
Forcing people through press gangs/kidnapping is wrong, the reasons for it don't matter, its a Ukraine/Russian choice to make and they both are equally wrong. It is a different matter to equate occupier and occupied, there is no equivalent there.
your solution is more war... imo that's not a good solution.
They'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Gerard thinks there's only two positions you can hold .. you're either pro Ukraine or pro Russian. Pick a side an stick to it. No nuance please.
Reminds me of GW Bush before invading Afghanistan "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
Doesn't look like Russia have intentions to walk through the whole country MR so I don't think that's a reasonable argument to make
June 2024: Russia issues fresh demands to Ukraine to end the war, including ceding more land, withdrawing troops deeper into Ukraine, and dropping its NATO bid.
This conflict will have to escalate massively for Ukraine to attempt to get their Russian occupied land back and I worry what that will look like both for the local region/population and the wider world.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:03:53 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 19, 2024, 12:19:22 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:01:14 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:51:42 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:32:13 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 11:23:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:10:38 PMI haven't defended Russian conscription, you are defending Ukrainian conscription and press gangs/kidnapping.
i was referring to press gangs/kidnapping.
I didn't ask you if you'd defended Russian conscription. I asked you if you had ever criticised Russia for using conscription (or press gangs/kidnapping as you prefer to call it). Have you?
no, I haven't criticised it on this thread as no one was trying to defend it.
So no then, you haven't thought to criticise Russian conscription. You've just criticised the victim of this particular war, because they've been forced to use conscription by the actions of the Russians.
The choice facing Ukraine is a stark one - use conscription or lose this war. Lose this war and Ukraine ceases to exist.
That's all on Russia.
As I explained no one was defending the Russians using conscription so there was no need to critise it, you defended conscription and the kidnapping /press gangs that Ukrainians are using so i critised it. to be clear I critise the Russians for using the same methods. I also think murder is bad for anyone who is worried by my lack of criticism of that!!!!
Ukraine will not cease to exist. If they accepted the shit peace deal that Russia offered it would still exist for example. They shouldnt accept it, Russia should withdraw etc. but there needs to be peace talks not years more war.
Your position is some sort of imaginary moral high ground that takes no account of the circumstances facing Ukraine on the ground.
You also equate Russia's use of conscription to execute their war of choice with the Ukrainians who are forced to use conscription. This is a false equivalence and is nothing more than equating victim with aggressor.
Russia's offer of peace is not serious which at least you acknowledge. Russia already 'froze' this conflict for 8 years, freezing it again for more 'peace' talks will achieve nothing more than allowing Russia to build up again for the next offensive. Ask the Chechens, they already found out.
My position takes account of Ukrainians more than you appeared to do as you are OK with press gangs/kidnapping and senting them off to die.
I take a similar position with the Palestinians. I have not seen you advocate for them to continue the fighting and receive weapons and funding from the West. Like most people you are likely calling for a ceasefire and a negotiated peace, its not a moral high ground.
Forcing people through press gangs/kidnapping is wrong, the reasons for it don't matter, its a Ukraine/Russian choice to make and they both are equally wrong. It is a different matter to equate occupier and occupied, there is no equivalent there.
your solution is more war... imo that's not a good solution.
Your position is not based on reality or the actual situation facing Ukraine on the ground.
Your position is that "both are equally wrong" - I've explained why they are not with regards to the reasons why they are using conscription.
You position doesn't take into account what has happened in areas under Russian occupation.
Your position does not take into account that one side is waging war upon the other and can stop it any time.
Russia is not serious about peace and will use peace talks for a breather. Ukraine knows this. The Ukrainians have said they are not freezing this conflict for the next generation to fight again in 5-10-15 years time.
The reality of the situation facing Ukraine is this:
Russia is waging a war of annihilation.
No weapons for Ukraine = Ukrainian defeat.
No conscription for Ukraine = Ukrainian defeat.
Ceasefire = freezing the conflict = giving Russia a breather = probable Ukrainian defeat later (with lots of online propaganda explaining why they had to do it. Again)
Quote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2024, 09:25:57 AMGerard thinks there's only two positions you can hold .. you're either pro Ukraine or pro Russian. Pick a side an stick to it. No nuance please.
Reminds me of GW Bush before invading Afghanistan "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
When you're claiming to be middle of the road and spending all your time on a thread discussing the topic and repeating pro-Russian propaganda, I'll draw my own conclusion thanks.
Quote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2024, 09:25:57 AMGerard thinks there's only two positions you can hold .. you're either pro Ukraine or pro Russian. Pick a side an stick to it. No nuance please.
Reminds me of GW Bush before invading Afghanistan "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
If they have no intent of going through the country then why are they bombing the cities they are not occupying?
The world is in a very strange place at the minute, hopefully common sense prevails and countries and world leaders can get round a table and thrash out realistic targets/goals/settlements.
Just rocking up and invading countries either proxy wars or just in your face invading really is the stuff of history, and here we are, still doing it.
Today, there are more than 110 armed conflicts. Some of these conflicts make the headlines, others do not. Some of them started recently, while others have lasted for more than 50 years.
Probably 2 of them make the headlines
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Should someone tell the Palestinians that conscription would stop Israel!! (I know that wasn't your actual point)
Quote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2024, 09:35:12 AMDoesn't look like Russia have intentions to walk through the whole country MR so I don't think that's a reasonable argument to make
June 2024: Russia issues fresh demands to Ukraine to end the war, including ceding more land, withdrawing troops deeper into Ukraine, and dropping its NATO bid.
This conflict will have to escalate massively for Ukraine to attempt to get their Russian occupied land back and I worry what that will look like both for the local region/population and the wider world.
Like I said, calling for Ukrainian surrender, so not a serious proposal.
Russia definitely have intentions to walk through the whole country, they've just had to scale back their ambitions for the time being.
Any comment on Yanukovych? Any evidence for the coup?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
With respect MR, they don't have to stop together, Russia can pull it's troops back to Russia anytime they like and this war is over. Russia can decide to end the war. Ukraine cannot decide to end the war.
pointless, I am for peace, a negotiated peace. I am against conscription, kidnapping/press gangs.
calling for that does not make me pro russia/ a tankie or whatever other label people want to throw around.
You are for more war and depending on realities on the ground are for conscription, kidnapping/press gangs.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:48:16 AMpointless, I am for peace, a negotiated peace. I am against conscription, kidnapping/press gangs.
calling for that does not make me pro russia/ a tankie or whatever other label people want to throw around.
You are for more war and depending on realities on the ground are for conscription, kidnapping/press gangs.
Your 'peace' = the defeat of Ukraine and the destruction of their nation. You're either completely naive or being disingenuous.
Russia can end the war tomorrow PHP, with the Russian Federation fully intact, right or wrong?
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 19, 2024, 09:51:33 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:48:16 AMpointless, I am for peace, a negotiated peace. I am against conscription, kidnapping/press gangs.
calling for that does not make me pro russia/ a tankie or whatever other label people want to throw around.
You are for more war and depending on realities on the ground are for conscription, kidnapping/press gangs.
Your 'peace' = the defeat of Ukraine and the destruction of their nation. You're either completely naive or being disingenuous.
Russia can end the war tomorrow PHP, with the Russian Federation fully intact, right or wrong?
I've answered enough of my your questions and you have ignoree all of mine. you now try and tell me what I mean by peace when I have never mentioned any of that...
pointless discussing with you are it was with all your other usernames.
Recent joined Gerard isn't much interested in the GAA when you look at his post history. Hmmm
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:55:32 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 19, 2024, 09:51:33 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:48:16 AMpointless, I am for peace, a negotiated peace. I am against conscription, kidnapping/press gangs.
calling for that does not make me pro russia/ a tankie or whatever other label people want to throw around.
You are for more war and depending on realities on the ground are for conscription, kidnapping/press gangs.
Your 'peace' = the defeat of Ukraine and the destruction of their nation. You're either completely naive or being disingenuous.
Russia can end the war tomorrow PHP, with the Russian Federation fully intact, right or wrong?
I've answered enough of my your questions and you have ignoree all of mine. you now try and tell me what I mean by peace when I have never mentioned any of that...
pointless discussing with you are it was with all your other usernames.
What question have you asked me that I've ignored?
Quote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2024, 10:03:17 AMRecent joined Gerard isn't much interested in the GAA when you look at his post history. Hmmm
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make or how it's even relevant.
Is this a debating tactic to deflect from not being able to back up your assertions?
No evidence of a coup.
No comment on Yanukovych's betrayal of the Ukrainian people.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:43:03 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Should someone tell the Palestinians that conscription would stop Israel!! (I know that wasn't your actual point)
Palestinians should be doing whatever they feel they can do to stop Israel from wiping them off the planet. I think the Ukraine is in the same boat, Hitler said he just wanted the German speaking Czech's, that didn't end well
Its a strategic proxy war between the US and Russia. I feel so sorry for the Ukrainians who are piggy in the middle. I sense a distinct lack of humanity from those who continue to believe dragging young Ukrainian men to fight to their death is the only way and beyond that worry what will happen globally when/if desperate measures get deployed by one side or the other.
Quote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2024, 10:45:55 AMIts a strategic proxy war between the US and Russia. I feel so sorry for the Ukrainians who are piggy in the middle. I sense a distinct lack of humanity from those who continue to believe dragging young Ukrainian men to fight to their death is the only way and beyond that worry what will happen globally when/if desperate measures get deployed by one side or the other.
I know, America are real war hungry cnuts, but you do have to concede that if Russia doesn't invade a country then no one is killed? Or am I missing something?
Quote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2024, 10:45:55 AMIts a strategic proxy war between the US and Russia. I feel so sorry for the Ukrainians who are piggy in the middle. I sense a distinct lack of humanity from those who continue to believe dragging young Ukrainian men to fight to their death is the only way and beyond that worry what will happen globally when/if desperate measures get deployed by one side or the other.
It's a war of independence and survival for the Ukrainians.
You feel so sorry for the Ukrainians that you spend your time on this thread spreading the Russian narrative for the war.
You feel so sorry for the Ukrainians that you have never mentioned or acknowledged Yanukovych's betrayal but prefer to focus on some imaginary coup and can't back up what you're saying with anything.
Sorry, but I don't buy your concern.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 10:55:22 AMQuote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2024, 10:45:55 AMIts a strategic proxy war between the US and Russia. I feel so sorry for the Ukrainians who are piggy in the middle. I sense a distinct lack of humanity from those who continue to believe dragging young Ukrainian men to fight to their death is the only way and beyond that worry what will happen globally when/if desperate measures get deployed by one side or the other.
I know, America are real war hungry cnuts, but you do have to concede that if Russia doesn't invade a country then no one is killed? Or am I missing something?
You aren't missing anything.
It's why they need the false coup narrative with the hang sangwidges.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 04:57:50 PMExample no 1 from your good self:
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/111880
What is happening here? When was this video taken?
You don't know and you have no way of finding out but job done from the Russian propagandists point of view.
A man takes a bike from a green van and cycles away. Women are standing there as well. That's it, that's the video .
It appears to be Ukraine because if it was in Russia the woman with the shopping bag would probably be in mortal danger. That is, if video was taken after 2014, which is unconfirmed. Like every other claim in the description.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-needs-soldiers-fight-russia-men-dodging-draft-zelenskyy-rcna152121
So this News story by NBC is false ?
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 05:31:21 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 05:22:54 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
What's with the recent MSM love in lads? ;) Storylines matching up with your preconceived worldviews?
See my earlier comments about conscription. No one is denying Ukraine uses conscription. When you're facing annihilation from the much larger brutal neighbour next door, desperate measures are called for.
Where are all the comments criticising Russia for using conscription (to destroy another nation) from ye lads?
No problem with anyone using conscription but the ukrainians are using Press Gangs and forcing people to the front at the behest of the Narco Fuhrer !
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 18, 2024, 11:10:38 PMI haven't defended Russian conscription, you are defending Ukrainian conscription and press gangs/kidnapping.
i was referring to press gangs/kidnapping.
Well said .
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 10:31:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:43:03 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Should someone tell the Palestinians that conscription would stop Israel!! (I know that wasn't your actual point)
Palestinians should be doing whatever they feel they can do to stop Israel from wiping them off the planet. I think the Ukraine is in the same boat, Hitler said he just wanted the German speaking Czech's, that didn't end well
Forcing Palestinans to fight is not going to stop Israel. A ceasefire, and negotiated peace aligned with existing UN resolutions and international law is what's needed not more weapons and conscription for the Palestinians and certainly not more for the Israelis.
Peace should not be or seen to be appeasement.
Quote from: Horse Box on June 19, 2024, 11:42:08 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 04:57:50 PMExample no 1 from your good self:
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/111880
What is happening here? When was this video taken?
You don't know and you have no way of finding out but job done from the Russian propagandists point of view.
A man takes a bike from a green van and cycles away. Women are standing there as well. That's it, that's the video .
It appears to be Ukraine because if it was in Russia the woman with the shopping bag would probably be in mortal danger. That is, if video was taken after 2014, which is unconfirmed. Like every other claim in the description.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-needs-soldiers-fight-russia-men-dodging-draft-zelenskyy-rcna152121
So this News story by NBC is false ?
No, I've said that the video you posted and many of the videos circulating online, purporting to be Ukrainian 'press gangs' could be absolutely anything, including being located in Russia. You're relying on the word of the Russian propagandist for context. The truth is you don't even know what you're watching.
Horse Box seems to think everyone in Russia marches off to the front whistling Tipperary but, oh dear..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/16/russia-mobilization-men/
And as I've already stated, conscription is horrible and understandably unpopular (Horse Box has no problem with it though) but as I said, Ukraine is forced into it as they are faced with a war of annihilation, Russia conscripts to wage a war of attempted genocide.
All of this is on Russia.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:10:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 10:31:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:43:03 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Should someone tell the Palestinians that conscription would stop Israel!! (I know that wasn't your actual point)
Palestinians should be doing whatever they feel they can do to stop Israel from wiping them off the planet. I think the Ukraine is in the same boat, Hitler said he just wanted the German speaking Czech's, that didn't end well
Forcing Palestinans to fight is not going to stop Israel. A ceasefire, and negotiated peace aligned with existing UN resolutions and international law is what's needed not more weapons and conscription for the Palestinians and certainly not more for the Israelis.
Peace should not be or seen to be appeasement.
Just read it back, and I didn't mention forcing Palestinans to fight.. I've been championing a ceasefire since before the attacks, and workable 2 state solution with some sort of peace army there ensuring both sides stick to the rules, for whatever time it takes.
But allowing Russia to waltz in, into any country and claim they are helping the Russian speaking Ukrainians by invading another country and bombing the cities outside of that area is a stretch
That conscripting video is a side show, and handy to have to shift views on the actual war
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 12:30:08 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:10:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 10:31:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:43:03 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Should someone tell the Palestinians that conscription would stop Israel!! (I know that wasn't your actual point)
Palestinians should be doing whatever they feel they can do to stop Israel from wiping them off the planet. I think the Ukraine is in the same boat, Hitler said he just wanted the German speaking Czech's, that didn't end well
Forcing Palestinans to fight is not going to stop Israel. A ceasefire, and negotiated peace aligned with existing UN resolutions and international law is what's needed not more weapons and conscription for the Palestinians and certainly not more for the Israelis.
Peace should not be or seen to be appeasement.
Just read it back, and I didn't mention forcing Palestinans to fight.. I've been championing a ceasefire since before the attacks, and workable 2 state solution with some sort of peace army there ensuring both sides stick to the rules, for whatever time it takes.
But allowing Russia to waltz in, into any country and claim they are helping the Russian speaking Ukrainians by invading another country and bombing the cities outside of that area is a stretch
That conscripting video is a side show, and handy to have to shift views on the actual war
It's even more cynical than that MR - Russia bombed, murdered and raped the people they claimed they were coming to save.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 12:30:08 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:10:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 10:31:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:43:03 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Should someone tell the Palestinians that conscription would stop Israel!! (I know that wasn't your actual point)
Palestinians should be doing whatever they feel they can do to stop Israel from wiping them off the planet. I think the Ukraine is in the same boat, Hitler said he just wanted the German speaking Czech's, that didn't end well
Forcing Palestinans to fight is not going to stop Israel. A ceasefire, and negotiated peace aligned with existing UN resolutions and international law is what's needed not more weapons and conscription for the Palestinians and certainly not more for the Israelis.
Peace should not be or seen to be appeasement.
Just read it back, and I didn't mention forcing Palestinans to fight.. I've been championing a ceasefire since before the attacks, and workable 2 state solution with some sort of peace army there ensuring both sides stick to the rules, for whatever time it takes.
But allowing Russia to waltz in, into any country and claim they are helping the Russian speaking Ukrainians by invading another country and bombing the cities outside of that area is a stretch
That conscripting video is a side show, and handy to have to shift views on the actual war
so we agree that championing peace over war and a ceasefire in Palestine and Ukraine is the right thing?
do we agree that its the palestinians/Ukrainians have a choice to decide to do whatever it takes? but that press gangs/kidnapping people and sending to to fight In a war is wrong?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:46:41 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 12:30:08 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:10:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 10:31:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:43:03 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Should someone tell the Palestinians that conscription would stop Israel!! (I know that wasn't your actual point)
Palestinians should be doing whatever they feel they can do to stop Israel from wiping them off the planet. I think the Ukraine is in the same boat, Hitler said he just wanted the German speaking Czech's, that didn't end well
Forcing Palestinans to fight is not going to stop Israel. A ceasefire, and negotiated peace aligned with existing UN resolutions and international law is what's needed not more weapons and conscription for the Palestinians and certainly not more for the Israelis.
Peace should not be or seen to be appeasement.
Just read it back, and I didn't mention forcing Palestinans to fight.. I've been championing a ceasefire since before the attacks, and workable 2 state solution with some sort of peace army there ensuring both sides stick to the rules, for whatever time it takes.
But allowing Russia to waltz in, into any country and claim they are helping the Russian speaking Ukrainians by invading another country and bombing the cities outside of that area is a stretch
That conscripting video is a side show, and handy to have to shift views on the actual war
so we agree that championing peace over war and a ceasefire in Palestine and Ukraine is the right thing?
do we agree that its the palestinians/Ukrainians have a choice to decide to do whatever it takes? but that press gangs/kidnapping people and sending to to fight In a war is wrong?
If you are agreeing that war is wrong, then conscriptions of any sort by any side wouldn't be happening. Stop it at source and it becomes a needless loss of life
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 01:19:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:46:41 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 12:30:08 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:10:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 10:31:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:43:03 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Should someone tell the Palestinians that conscription would stop Israel!! (I know that wasn't your actual point)
Palestinians should be doing whatever they feel they can do to stop Israel from wiping them off the planet. I think the Ukraine is in the same boat, Hitler said he just wanted the German speaking Czech's, that didn't end well
Forcing Palestinans to fight is not going to stop Israel. A ceasefire, and negotiated peace aligned with existing UN resolutions and international law is what's needed not more weapons and conscription for the Palestinians and certainly not more for the Israelis.
Peace should not be or seen to be appeasement.
Just read it back, and I didn't mention forcing Palestinans to fight.. I've been championing a ceasefire since before the attacks, and workable 2 state solution with some sort of peace army there ensuring both sides stick to the rules, for whatever time it takes.
But allowing Russia to waltz in, into any country and claim they are helping the Russian speaking Ukrainians by invading another country and bombing the cities outside of that area is a stretch
That conscripting video is a side show, and handy to have to shift views on the actual war
so we agree that championing peace over war and a ceasefire in Palestine and Ukraine is the right thing?
do we agree that its the palestinians/Ukrainians have a choice to decide to do whatever it takes? but that press gangs/kidnapping people and sending to to fight In a war is wrong?
If you are agreeing that war is wrong, then conscriptions of any sort by any side wouldn't be happening. Stop it at source and it becomes a needless loss of life
There are currently conflicts/wars in Palestine/Ukraine so we are beyond not letting it happen but 100% agree war is wrong, a failure of diplomacy or lack of effort at diplomacy.
however, you didn't answer my questions.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 01:31:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 01:19:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:46:41 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 12:30:08 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:10:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 10:31:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:43:03 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Should someone tell the Palestinians that conscription would stop Israel!! (I know that wasn't your actual point)
Palestinians should be doing whatever they feel they can do to stop Israel from wiping them off the planet. I think the Ukraine is in the same boat, Hitler said he just wanted the German speaking Czech's, that didn't end well
Forcing Palestinans to fight is not going to stop Israel. A ceasefire, and negotiated peace aligned with existing UN resolutions and international law is what's needed not more weapons and conscription for the Palestinians and certainly not more for the Israelis.
Peace should not be or seen to be appeasement.
Just read it back, and I didn't mention forcing Palestinans to fight.. I've been championing a ceasefire since before the attacks, and workable 2 state solution with some sort of peace army there ensuring both sides stick to the rules, for whatever time it takes.
But allowing Russia to waltz in, into any country and claim they are helping the Russian speaking Ukrainians by invading another country and bombing the cities outside of that area is a stretch
That conscripting video is a side show, and handy to have to shift views on the actual war
so we agree that championing peace over war and a ceasefire in Palestine and Ukraine is the right thing?
do we agree that its the palestinians/Ukrainians have a choice to decide to do whatever it takes? but that press gangs/kidnapping people and sending to to fight In a war is wrong?
If you are agreeing that war is wrong, then conscriptions of any sort by any side wouldn't be happening. Stop it at source and it becomes a needless loss of life
There are currently conflicts/wars in Palestine/Ukraine so we are beyond not letting it happen but 100% agree war is wrong, a failure of diplomacy or lack of effort at diplomacy.
however, you didn't answer my questions.
This war could end tomorrow if Russia leaves, yes or no? It's a simple question and one you dodged.
It's a choice for Russia. Ukraine has no choice.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 01:31:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 01:19:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:46:41 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 12:30:08 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 12:10:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 10:31:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on June 19, 2024, 09:43:03 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2024, 09:19:32 AMThey'd have to stop together because if the Ukrainians don't use conscription then the Russians will just walk on through, like the Israelis are doing at the minute, an invading country.
Russia developing better links now with North Korea, seems like a good partnership ;D
Should someone tell the Palestinians that conscription would stop Israel!! (I know that wasn't your actual point)
Palestinians should be doing whatever they feel they can do to stop Israel from wiping them off the planet. I think the Ukraine is in the same boat, Hitler said he just wanted the German speaking Czech's, that didn't end well
Forcing Palestinans to fight is not going to stop Israel. A ceasefire, and negotiated peace aligned with existing UN resolutions and international law is what's needed not more weapons and conscription for the Palestinians and certainly not more for the Israelis.
Peace should not be or seen to be appeasement.
Just read it back, and I didn't mention forcing Palestinans to fight.. I've been championing a ceasefire since before the attacks, and workable 2 state solution with some sort of peace army there ensuring both sides stick to the rules, for whatever time it takes.
But allowing Russia to waltz in, into any country and claim they are helping the Russian speaking Ukrainians by invading another country and bombing the cities outside of that area is a stretch
That conscripting video is a side show, and handy to have to shift views on the actual war
so we agree that championing peace over war and a ceasefire in Palestine and Ukraine is the right thing?
do we agree that its the palestinians/Ukrainians have a choice to decide to do whatever it takes? but that press gangs/kidnapping people and sending to to fight In a war is wrong?
If you are agreeing that war is wrong, then conscriptions of any sort by any side wouldn't be happening. Stop it at source and it becomes a needless loss of life
There are currently conflicts/wars in Palestine/Ukraine so we are beyond not letting it happen but 100% agree war is wrong, a failure of diplomacy or lack of effort at diplomacy.
however, you didn't answer my questions.
I said in my post, that conscripts by any side wouldn't be happening, but if the Russia and Ukraine are doing it they are doing it for a reason, because they are at war, Russia thought it be over quicker and were not prepared and Ukraine hoped that they wouldn't be in war.
Do I think forcing someone into an army is right? No, and hopefully it stops
Only 40 odd percent of people during WW2 were volunteers in the UK, the rest were conscripted, if they hadn't have been we'd be all speaking German, or maybe Russian by now, christ, they were sending people to war/battles without any guns, never mind training.
Oh and I said earlier there are 110 conflict wars going on at the minute, only 2 are getting any real coverage
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 19, 2024, 12:22:57 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 19, 2024, 11:42:08 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 04:57:50 PMExample no 1 from your good self:
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/111880
What is happening here? When was this video taken?
You don't know and you have no way of finding out but job done from the Russian propagandists point of view.
A man takes a bike from a green van and cycles away. Women are standing there as well. That's it, that's the video .
It appears to be Ukraine because if it was in Russia the woman with the shopping bag would probably be in mortal danger. That is, if video was taken after 2014, which is unconfirmed. Like every other claim in the description.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-needs-soldiers-fight-russia-men-dodging-draft-zelenskyy-rcna152121
So this News story by NBC is false ?
No, I've said that the video you posted and many of the videos circulating online, purporting to be Ukrainian 'press gangs' could be absolutely anything, including being located in Russia. You're relying on the word of the Russian propagandist for context. The truth is you don't even know what you're watching.
Horse Box seems to think everyone in Russia marches off to the front whistling Tipperary but, oh dear..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/16/russia-mobilization-men/
And as I've already stated, conscription is horrible and understandably unpopular (Horse Box has no problem with it though) but as I said, Ukraine is forced into it as they are faced with a war of annihilation, Russia conscripts to wage a war of attempted genocide.
All of this is on Russia.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 19, 2024, 12:22:57 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 19, 2024, 11:42:08 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 18, 2024, 04:57:50 PMExample no 1 from your good self:
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/111880
What is happening here? When was this video taken?
You don't know and you have no way of finding out but job done from the Russian propagandists point of view.
A man takes a bike from a green van and cycles away. Women are standing there as well. That's it, that's the video .
It appears to be Ukraine because if it was in Russia the woman with the shopping bag would probably be in mortal danger. That is, if video was taken after 2014, which is unconfirmed. Like every other claim in the description.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-needs-soldiers-fight-russia-men-dodging-draft-zelenskyy-rcna152121
So this News story by NBC is false ?
No, I've said that the video you posted and many of the videos circulating online, purporting to be Ukrainian 'press gangs' could be absolutely anything, including being located in Russia. You're relying on the word of the Russian propagandist for context. The truth is you don't even know what you're watching.
Horse Box seems to think everyone in Russia marches off to the front whistling Tipperary but, oh dear..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/16/russia-mobilization-men/
And as I've already stated, conscription is horrible and understandably unpopular (Horse Box has no problem with it though) but as I said, Ukraine is forced into it as they are faced with a war of annihilation, Russia conscripts to wage a war of attempted genocide.
All of this is on Russia.
BBC , NBC and now this along with the Telegram evidence :
https://www.intellinews.com/ragozin-ukraine-s-mobilisation-public-support-vs-private-resistance-326999/
Quote from: Horse Box on June 19, 2024, 03:29:14 PMBBC , NBC and now this along with the Telegram evidence :
https://www.intellinews.com/ragozin-ukraine-s-mobilisation-public-support-vs-private-resistance-326999/
What is the point of this? There are always freeloaders, some people refused to get vaccinations. some people won't pay road tax, some people rip off GaaGo, and some people would like to live in Ukraine but prefer to let someone else defend them.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2024, 03:31:56 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 19, 2024, 03:29:14 PMBBC , NBC and now this along with the Telegram evidence :
https://www.intellinews.com/ragozin-ukraine-s-mobilisation-public-support-vs-private-resistance-326999/
What is the point of this? There are always freeloaders, some people refused to get vaccinations. some people won't pay road tax, some people rip off GaaGo, and some people would like to live in Ukraine but prefer to let someone else defend them.
The point of it all is very clear. It's an attempt to discredit Ukraine, the victim in this and forced to use conscription as a matter of survival.
No attempt to also highlight the use of 'pressgangs/kidnapping' or the unpopularity of conscription in Russia. That's Russia, the aggressor, who conscripts in order to invade to commit genocide.
It's all they've got left as the NATO, Nazis, coup/sandwich propaganda doesn't withstand any scrutiny whatsoever.
Ignore the Horse Box piece of Kremlin turd spouting pish.
The Russian alarms are going off, it's popcorn time as Russia implodes.
Pegging the Ruble to Yuan and aligning himself with the world's most despised despot is desperation stakes by Putin, a backs to the wall out of all other options move.
The only other option, BRICS, is a self serving group, what they can make to their benefit from Russia.
The Kremlin have used up all their available cash reserves. And as we know, all other cash reserves are frozen. China is dictating the terms in their favour of any further collaboration. Recent secondary sanctions are going to hurt more.The natural gas income has tanked, oil income is much reduced, Gazprom is a lame duck.
3m of the labour force has vanished.
Russia does not have access to the World money markets.
The increased expense of the war economy which produces only stuff which explodes and is worthless.
The War economy on paper gives a false boost impression of the Russian economy's actual health, in fact the real economy has plummeted.
Most western companies (plus know how/technology) have left Russia and with them western investors.
The Russian elites know it as well as Putin, the recent Saint Petersburg economic forum is the first time when many Russian officials, elites and so-called elites didn't attend.
The Russian deputy prime minister was openly negative about the future of Russia.
For the first time, the authorities started telling the dark
state of the economy.
The head of the central bank openly admits for the first time that the Russian economy is in pretty bad shape.
And as regards progress on the battlefield, all Russia can offer are yards gained by the month by sacrificing meat recruits in their thousands.
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2024, 10:28:29 PMThe Kremlin have used up all their available cash reserves.
This true?
Very big news if so and it's gone very unreported
Main Street's spiel was blown apart by the last line.
Hmm ,a Kremlin useless idiots cabal ;D
with nothing to coment about Russia's demise as evident by the alignment of the ruble to the Yuan and the contract with the worlds most despised despot, not to mention the RCB's pessimistic report about the Russian economy and forecast of raising interest rates above a current crippling 16%
Among Russia's problems: (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ukraines-best-hope-may-be-a-faltering-russian-economy-163008134.html) Its national wealth fund, a pool of reserves Putin taps to finance the war, has dropped from $113 billion before the war to about $56 billion now. Not all of the $56 billion is liquid, and Russia needs to keep some money on hand for a genuine emergency.
"Their reserves are fast depleting," Agathe Demarais of the European Council on Foreign Relations said at the May 28 Brookings event. Gazprom's losses, she said, are "going to be a problem for replenishing the reserves. We're talking about really big numbers. I don't think there will be an easy way out for Russia."
Analysts think Gazprom will continue losing money through at least 2025, mainly because European nations that used to be the firm's biggest customers have weaned themselves off Russian energy. The easiest way to transport gas is by pipeline, and while other countries buy Russian gas, they're not connected by pipes.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 19, 2024, 11:29:16 PMMain Street's spiel was blown apart by the last line.
You can check it out yourself. Months and months of fighting to take Avdiivka and little advance across any of the other fronts.
That's heavily fortified Ukrainian positions they are attacking. A slaughter. Total pointless waste of life.
Consequences ---- the Kyiv Indo reports (https://kyivindependent.com/south-korea-to-reconsider-ukraine-weapons-supplies-in-response-to-russia-north-korea-pact/)
"South Korea has said it will reconsider its policy of not directly supplying Ukraine with weapons in response to Moscow's newly-announced pact with North Korea, the country's president's office said on June 20.
Up until now, Seoul has only provided humanitarian aid to Kyiv, though it has been reported the country has indirectly supplied artillery shells via the U.S".
Car services and enterprises in Russia lack 150 thousand mechanics (https://rg.ru/2024/06/18/kliuch-vam-v-ruki.html)
The shortage of auto mechanics in Russia has reached a critical mark. There are up to five vacancies per staff today. notes Mikhail Kiselev, First Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Youth Policy.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 19, 2024, 03:47:24 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2024, 03:31:56 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 19, 2024, 03:29:14 PMBBC , NBC and now this along with the Telegram evidence :
https://www.intellinews.com/ragozin-ukraine-s-mobilisation-public-support-vs-private-resistance-326999/
What is the point of this? There are always freeloaders, some people refused to get vaccinations. some people won't pay road tax, some people rip off GaaGo, and some people would like to live in Ukraine but prefer to let someone else defend them.
The point of it all is very clear. It's an attempt to discredit Ukraine, the victim in this and forced to use conscription as a matter of survival.
No attempt to also highlight the use of 'pressgangs/kidnapping' or the unpopularity of conscription in Russia. That's Russia, the aggressor, who conscripts in order to invade to commit genocide.
It's all they've got left as the NATO, Nazis, coup/sandwich propaganda doesn't withstand any scrutiny whatsoever.
You will find it`s the same aggressor in ukraine as in the Middle East . . . . the USA . 9 Minutes into this will educate you people with the exception of a couple of Posters here who thankfully know what`s what 8) :
https://youtu.be/mULVrUGh6wo?si=WC8wzcE6anQMn2YF
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2024, 10:28:29 PMIgnore the Horse Box piece of Kremlin turd spouting pish.
The Russian alarms are going off, it's popcorn time as Russia implodes.
Pegging the Ruble to Yuan and aligning himself with the world's most despised despot is desperation stakes by Putin, a backs to the wall out of all other options move.
The only other option, BRICS, is a self serving group, what they can make to their benefit from Russia.
The Kremlin have used up all their available cash reserves. And as we know, all other cash reserves are frozen. China is dictating the terms in their favour of any further collaboration. Recent secondary sanctions are going to hurt more.The natural gas income has tanked, oil income is much reduced, Gazprom is a lame duck.
3m of the labour force has vanished.
Russia does not have access to the World money markets.
The increased expense of the war economy which produces only stuff which explodes and is worthless.
The War economy on paper gives a false boost impression of the Russian economy's actual health, in fact the real economy has plummeted.
Most western companies (plus know how/technology) have left Russia and with them western investors.
The Russian elites know it as well as Putin, the recent Saint Petersburg economic forum is the first time when many Russian officials, elites and so-called elites didn't attend.
The Russian deputy prime minister was openly negative about the future of Russia.
For the first time, the authorities started telling the dark
state of the economy.
The head of the central bank openly admits for the first time that the Russian economy is in pretty bad shape.
And as regards progress on the battlefield, all Russia can offer are yards gained by the month by sacrificing meat recruits in their thousands.
Ignore the truth and calling names , very mature !
Aye the Russian economy is f@cked :
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68823399
Who listens to the BBC as a source? ;D
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 19, 2024, 03:47:24 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2024, 03:31:56 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 19, 2024, 03:29:14 PMBBC , NBC and now this along with the Telegram evidence :
https://www.intellinews.com/ragozin-ukraine-s-mobilisation-public-support-vs-private-resistance-326999/
What is the point of this? There are always freeloaders, some people refused to get vaccinations. some people won't pay road tax, some people rip off GaaGo, and some people would like to live in Ukraine but prefer to let someone else defend them.
The point of it all is very clear. It's an attempt to discredit Ukraine, the victim in this and forced to use conscription as a matter of survival.
No attempt to also highlight the use of 'pressgangs/kidnapping' or the unpopularity of conscription in Russia. That's Russia, the aggressor, who conscripts in order to invade to commit genocide.
It's all they've got left as the NATO, Nazis, coup/sandwich propaganda doesn't withstand any scrutiny whatsoever.
You are judged by the company you keep :P
https://x.com/i/status/1803726700162789468
Forced into the Army, its called conscription, every country in the world does it, when at a war footing.
Quote from: Horse Box on June 20, 2024, 02:37:32 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 19, 2024, 03:47:24 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2024, 03:31:56 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 19, 2024, 03:29:14 PMBBC , NBC and now this along with the Telegram evidence :
https://www.intellinews.com/ragozin-ukraine-s-mobilisation-public-support-vs-private-resistance-326999/
What is the point of this? There are always freeloaders, some people refused to get vaccinations. some people won't pay road tax, some people rip off GaaGo, and some people would like to live in Ukraine but prefer to let someone else defend them.
The point of it all is very clear. It's an attempt to discredit Ukraine, the victim in this and forced to use conscription as a matter of survival.
No attempt to also highlight the use of 'pressgangs/kidnapping' or the unpopularity of conscription in Russia. That's Russia, the aggressor, who conscripts in order to invade to commit genocide.
It's all they've got left as the NATO, Nazis, coup/sandwich propaganda doesn't withstand any scrutiny whatsoever.
You will find it`s the same aggressor in ukraine as in the Middle East . . . . the USA . 9 Minutes into this will educate you people with the exception of a couple of Posters here who thankfully know what`s what 8) :
https://youtu.be/mULVrUGh6wo?si=WC8wzcE6anQMn2YF
Ah Jeffrey the oul spoofer, he says basically the same thing in every interview. He knows he can get away with because:
1. The person interviewing him probably doesn't know the topic in-depth or is a propagandist like Tucker Carlson.
2. His target audience is too lazy to fact check anything he says and will accept it all as fact.
Anyway, a kind chap has fact-checked a lot of the guff he spouted in the Carlson interview, you can read it here:
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4727046-from-economist-to-kremlin-mouthpiece-the-troubling-transformation-of-jeffrey-sachs/
I'm so glad western MSM is so en vogue in this thread these days ;)
His blunder about the KFOR base in Kosovo is a real beauty. What a spoofer!
Also, Jeffrey loves to cite Zbigniew Brzezinski's essay "The Grand Chessboard" as some sort of proof that there was a dastardly plan to bring NATO troops right up to Russia's border. The essay proposes nothing of the sort or even close. Again he must be relying on no-one having actually read it.
Quote from: Horse Box on June 20, 2024, 02:46:13 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 19, 2024, 03:47:24 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2024, 03:31:56 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 19, 2024, 03:29:14 PMBBC , NBC and now this along with the Telegram evidence :
https://www.intellinews.com/ragozin-ukraine-s-mobilisation-public-support-vs-private-resistance-326999/
What is the point of this? There are always freeloaders, some people refused to get vaccinations. some people won't pay road tax, some people rip off GaaGo, and some people would like to live in Ukraine but prefer to let someone else defend them.
The point of it all is very clear. It's an attempt to discredit Ukraine, the victim in this and forced to use conscription as a matter of survival.
No attempt to also highlight the use of 'pressgangs/kidnapping' or the unpopularity of conscription in Russia. That's Russia, the aggressor, who conscripts in order to invade to commit genocide.
It's all they've got left as the NATO, Nazis, coup/sandwich propaganda doesn't withstand any scrutiny whatsoever.
You are judged by the company you keep :P
https://x.com/i/status/1803726700162789468
That polite Ukrainian man Alex isn't keeping company with this fascist.
He is debating with him trying to make him see sense.
He is talking to a brick wall.
I know how he feels.
p.s. not surprised to hear McConnell is familiar with and repeats ridiculous Russian propaganda.
Isn't The Hill just the right wing equivalent of Grayzone?
It's a bit weird for a guy who (in his various iterations) pours scorn on alternative media to pin his case on a The Hill article.
"A 2017 study by the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University found that The Hill was the second most-shared source among supporters of Donald Trump on Twitter during the election, behind Breitbart News."
"A February 2020 internal review by The Hill concluded that there were multiple flaws in Solomon's 14 columns about Ukraine and the Bidens, including omitting important details and failing to disclose that the sources used by Solomon were his own attorneys Victoria Toensing and Joseph diGenova—both close associates of Trump and his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani"
In 2022 The Hill made the news for censorship, when it refused to air a segment in its show Rising, and subsequently fired Katie Halper, for defending Rashida Tlaib calling Israel having an "apartheid government".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hill_(newspaper)
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 21, 2024, 02:35:32 AMIsn't The Hill just the right wing equivalent of Grayzone?
It's a bit weird for a guy who (in his various iterations) pours scorn on alternative media to pin his case on a The Hill article.
"A 2017 study by the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University found that The Hill was the second most-shared source among supporters of Donald Trump on Twitter during the election, behind Breitbart News."
"A February 2020 internal review by The Hill concluded that there were multiple flaws in Solomon's 14 columns about Ukraine and the Bidens, including omitting important details and failing to disclose that the sources used by Solomon were his own attorneys Victoria Toensing and Joseph diGenova—both close associates of Trump and his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani"
In 2022 The Hill made the news for censorship, when it refused to air a segment in its show Rising, and subsequently fired Katie Halper, for defending Rashida Tlaib calling Israel having an "apartheid government".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hill_(newspaper)
I'm not 'pinning my case' on The Hill.
That article is an opinion piece written by a member of the Ukrainian parliament, Oleh Dunda.
He has also written opinion pieces in the Kyiv Post, among others.
Is the Kyiv Post acceptable to you? Pro-Russian Horsebox loves to cite their articles.
Anyway, as for the contents of the article. Let's take NATO. I've already presented the fact that "not one inch" around NATO expansion referred to German reunification and that the Warsaw Pact still existed at that time so the possibility of the countries joining NATO wouldn't even be considered. Jeffrey just continues to repeat endlessly the same tired old misrepresentation.
I suggest you read Zbigniew Brzezinski's essay "The Grand Chessboard" from start to finish. Then listen to what Jeffrey Sachs has to say about it and you'll realise how full of **** he is.
Btw The Grayzone you are referring to is just a flat out Russian propaganda mill.
I can't figure out what motivates Jeffrey Sachs.
Maybe it's guilt over what 'Shock Therapy' did to Russia back in the 1990s. Probably destroyed more Russian lives than the Grand Dictator's 'SMO'.
Only he knows.
Such a hard on for war and death ..... sickening
Quote from: theskull1 on June 21, 2024, 11:22:04 AMSuch a hard on for war and death ..... sickening
Are you referring to me?
More Horse Box dung,
it posts
Russia to grow faster than all advanced economies says IMF :o
IMF??
Yale Insights (https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/with-zero-visibility-into-the-russian-economy-the-imf-is-parroting-putins-line)
With 'Zero Visibility' into the Russian Economy, the IMF is Parroting Putin's Line
The International Monetary Fund is lacking the independent data to evaluate the state of Russia's economy. But rather than admitting ignorance, write Yale's Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, Stephen Roach, and Steven Tian, the IMF is accepting the Kremlin's statistics—and fueling pessimism about the impact of sanctions.
TIME Magazine (https://time.com/6270540/imf-pushing-putins-economic-propaganda/)
Why Is the IMF Pushing Putin's Economic Propaganda?
'Sadly, beneath the smoke and mirrors obfuscation, the IMF is doubling down on its own worst mistake. At the end of January 2023, the IMF recklessly made Russian projections in their World Economic Outlook which their economists admitted to us over the past year they simply do not have.'
'Furthermore, as we have demonstrated, the IMF economists privately admit that they have no basis to make such projections as they have covertly given Russia a pass on their membership obligation to provide comprehensive, timely, transparent, and verifiable data to the IMF'
"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
Ukrainians have had enough of the Narco Fuhrer and want an Election :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQmZdMDWUAUPwSZ?format=jpg&name=large
Quote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:30:07 PM"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
All you do is post news from here or there.
You don't ever discuss the points being made - it's never crossed your mind to double check or question anything being said.
Have you read The Grand Chessboard' yet?
Quote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:34:15 PMUkrainians have had enough of the Narco Fuhrer and want an Election :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQmZdMDWUAUPwSZ?format=jpg&name=large
Let's assume that pic is authentic: There are 40 Million Ukrainians. That's one flag, now gone. Who put it there?
Holding elections in the middle of a war during martial law? Don't think this one has any legs, better try something else.
How long has Putin been in power now in Russia.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:22:44 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:34:15 PMUkrainians have had enough of the Narco Fuhrer and want an Election :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQmZdMDWUAUPwSZ?format=jpg&name=large
Let's assume that pic is authentic: There are 40 Million Ukrainians. That's one flag, now gone. Who put it there?
Holding elections in the middle of a war during martial law? Don't think this one has any legs, better try something else.
How long has Putin been in power now in Russia.
I reckon it was some disenfranchised Ukrainian people 8)
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:22:44 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:34:15 PMUkrainians have had enough of the Narco Fuhrer and want an Election :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQmZdMDWUAUPwSZ?format=jpg&name=large
Let's assume that pic is authentic: There are 40 Million Ukrainians. That's one flag, now gone. Who put it there?
Holding elections in the middle of a war during martial law? Don't think this one has any legs, better try something else.
How long has Putin been in power now in Russia.
Simple bit of research will tell you he has been democratically elected and in power for over 20 years !
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:19:48 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:30:07 PM"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
All you do is post news from here or there.
You don't ever discuss the points being made - it's never crossed your mind to double check or question anything being said.
Have you read The Grand Chessboard' yet?
Posting the facts is enough , no need to over elaborate ;) .
Quote from: Horse Box on June 22, 2024, 07:58:35 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:22:44 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:34:15 PMUkrainians have had enough of the Narco Fuhrer and want an Election :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQmZdMDWUAUPwSZ?format=jpg&name=large
Let's assume that pic is authentic: There are 40 Million Ukrainians. That's one flag, now gone. Who put it there?
Holding elections in the middle of a war during martial law? Don't think this one has any legs, better try something else.
How long has Putin been in power now in Russia.
I reckon it was some disenfranchised Ukrainian people 8)
We'll never know will we 8)
Quote from: Horse Box on June 22, 2024, 08:00:03 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:22:44 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:34:15 PMUkrainians have had enough of the Narco Fuhrer and want an Election :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQmZdMDWUAUPwSZ?format=jpg&name=large
Let's assume that pic is authentic: There are 40 Million Ukrainians. That's one flag, now gone. Who put it there?
Holding elections in the middle of a war during martial law? Don't think this one has any legs, better try something else.
How long has Putin been in power now in Russia.
Simple bit of research will tell you he has been democratically elected and in power for over 20 years !
His alcoholic mate Dmitri was president from
2008-2012 but I'm sure you knew that already ;)
As for democracy, he doesn't even put the effort in to pretend anymore:
https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2024/03/19/at-least-22-million-fake-votes-cast-for-putin-in-presidential-election-en-news
Oh and in case you've never heard of them:
https://novayagazeta.eu/about
Quote from: Horse Box on June 22, 2024, 08:02:06 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:19:48 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:30:07 PM"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
All you do is post news from here or there.
You don't ever discuss the points being made - it's never crossed your mind to double check or question anything being said.
Have you read The Grand Chessboard' yet?
Posting the facts is enough , no need to over elaborate ;) .
You're unable to debate anything because you don't know anything.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:22:44 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:34:15 PMUkrainians have had enough of the Narco Fuhrer and want an Election :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQmZdMDWUAUPwSZ?format=jpg&name=large
Let's assume that pic is authentic: There are 40 Million Ukrainians. That's one flag, now gone. Who put it there?
Holding elections in the middle of a war during martial law? Don't think this one has any legs, better try something else.
How long has Putin been in power now in Russia.
40 Million ukrainians ? The Dusseldorf Arena`s capacity is 50,000 so we will say there`s at a stretch 20,000 ukrainians in the Stadium ! So proportionally that would be 2000 flags per 40 million folk ;) ! ! Removed by the same people who have no problem allowing Israel to compete in UEFA Competitions ! ! !
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 22, 2024, 08:33:29 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 22, 2024, 08:02:06 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:19:48 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:30:07 PM"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
All you do is post news from here or there.
You don't ever discuss the points being made - it's never crossed your mind to double check or question anything being said.
Have you read The Grand Chessboard' yet?
Posting the facts is enough , no need to over elaborate ;) .
You're unable to debate anything because you don't know anything.
Well if a genius like you says so 8)
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:19:48 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:30:07 PM"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
All you do is post news from here or there.
You don't ever discuss the points being made - it's never crossed your mind to double check or question anything being said.
Have you read The Grand Chessboard' yet?
The Author was a supporter of Pol Pot , pro Israeli and supported the Mujahideen ( we all know how that went ) , no thanks .
Quote from: Horse Box on June 23, 2024, 11:01:53 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:22:44 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:34:15 PMUkrainians have had enough of the Narco Fuhrer and want an Election :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQmZdMDWUAUPwSZ?format=jpg&name=large
Let's assume that pic is authentic: There are 40 Million Ukrainians. That's one flag, now gone. Who put it there?
Holding elections in the middle of a war during martial law? Don't think this one has any legs, better try something else.
How long has Putin been in power now in Russia.
40 Million ukrainians ? The Dusseldorf Arena`s capacity is 50,000 so we will say there`s at a stretch 20,000 ukrainians in the Stadium ! So proportionally that would be 2000 flags per 40 million folk ;) ! ! Removed by the same people who have no problem allowing Israel to compete in UEFA Competitions ! ! !
I'm only replying to this so you can't delete it ;)
Quote from: Horse Box on June 23, 2024, 11:21:04 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:19:48 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:30:07 PM"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
All you do is post news from here or there.
You don't ever discuss the points being made - it's never crossed your mind to double check or question anything being said.
Have you read The Grand Chessboard' yet?
The Author was a supporter of Pol Pot , pro Israeli and supported the Mujahideen ( we all know how that went ) , no thanks .
Jeffrey's relying on you never reading it so he can claim what he likes about it. What happened to independent research? ;)
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 23, 2024, 01:49:58 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 23, 2024, 11:01:53 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:22:44 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:34:15 PMUkrainians have had enough of the Narco Fuhrer and want an Election :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQmZdMDWUAUPwSZ?format=jpg&name=large
Let's assume that pic is authentic: There are 40 Million Ukrainians. That's one flag, now gone. Who put it there?
Holding elections in the middle of a war during martial law? Don't think this one has any legs, better try something else.
How long has Putin been in power now in Russia.
40 Million ukrainians ? The Dusseldorf Arena`s capacity is 50,000 so we will say there`s at a stretch 20,000 ukrainians in the Stadium ! So proportionally that would be 2000 flags per 40 million folk ;) ! ! Removed by the same people who have no problem allowing Israel to compete in UEFA Competitions ! ! !
I'm only replying to this so you can't delete it ;)
;) !
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 23, 2024, 01:51:43 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 23, 2024, 11:21:04 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:19:48 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:30:07 PM"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
All you do is post news from here or there.
You don't ever discuss the points being made - it's never crossed your mind to double check or question anything being said.
Have you read The Grand Chessboard' yet?
The Author was a supporter of Pol Pot , pro Israeli and supported the Mujahideen ( we all know how that went ) , no thanks .
Jeffrey's relying on you never reading it so he can claim what he likes about it. What happened to independent research? ;)
The quality of debate on this Thread is enthralling 8) .
TCC Officers not getting it all their own way with public :
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/114046
Quote from: Horse Box on June 23, 2024, 11:12:25 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 23, 2024, 01:51:43 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 23, 2024, 11:21:04 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:19:48 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:30:07 PM"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
All you do is post news from here or there.
You don't ever discuss the points being made - it's never crossed your mind to double check or question anything being said.
Have you read The Grand Chessboard' yet?
The Author was a supporter of Pol Pot , pro Israeli and supported the Mujahideen ( we all know how that went ) , no thanks .
Jeffrey's relying on you never reading it so he can claim what he likes about it. What happened to independent research? ;)
The quality of debate on this Thread is enthralling 8) .
Posting BBC articles and Jeffrey Sachs interviews is not debate. Why not debate some of Jeffrey's claims? I'm sure you must have double checked some of his talking points, given your interest in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Have you?
Young Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to be forced to read the Grand Chessboard so as to understand and be persuaded why he needs to sacrifice his life in this tragic proxy war
Young Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
He is not fighting for Zelensky or NATO, he is fighting for the independence of his country.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 02:10:53 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
He is not fighting for Zelensky or NATO, he is fighting for the independence of his country.
The sad reality is that NATO backing has prolonged this war no end, and as a result thousands more Ukrainian and Russian young men will die needlessly.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 02:26:10 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 02:10:53 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
He is not fighting for Zelensky or NATO, he is fighting for the independence of his country.
The sad reality is that NATO backing has prolonged this war no end, and as a result thousands more Ukrainian and Russian young men will die needlessly.
Define needlessly? Ukraine is not occupied by Russia, that is the object of the defence. Yes, the Russians are dying needlessly, they should stop.
Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to be forced to read the Grand Chessboard so as to understand and be persuaded why he needs to sacrifice his life in this tragic proxy war
Young Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
What a complete disingenuous and deliberate misrepresentation of everything I have said on this thread. I'm not surprised though. Let walk through it:
1. First off - the video-> Is this the Ukrainian military taking a young Ukrainian man away to be forcibly conscripted?
When was it taken? Where was it taken? How do you know what is happening and why?
2. It's acknowledged that both Ukraine and Russia do use conscription - we also know the difference in the reasons each country is using it. Ukraine for defence to avoid annihilation, Russia to wipe Ukraine off the map and commit genocide. For some reason on here, certain posters only seem to have a problem with Ukrainian conscription.
3. If Ukraine does not conscript, it will lose this war. If Ukraine loses this war, it will cease to exist. That's the scenario Ukraine finds itself in, because of Russia. Russian is responsible not only for Russian conscription, but for Ukrainian conscription.
4. You brought Zbigniew Brzezinski into this thread when you posted the Tucker Carlson interview with Jeffrey Sachs. Jeffrey Sachs blames NATO for the Russian invasion and cites NATO 'expansion' as a plan from way back in the 90s and detailed in Brzezinski's 'Grand Chessboard'. Unlike you, I have read 'The Grand Chessboard' so I know Sachs is talking shite. You watch those interviews but don't question anything. Perhaps you should apply the same level of scepticism you do to these types of interviews to whatever you see on the MSM and actually fact check something you are being told.
5. You also like to blame John McCain's 2014 ham sandwiches as a cause for this conflict. When I asked you for comment on Yanukovych's betrayal of the Ukrainian people, you had nothing to say. Not a thing. Do you have anything to say about it now?
I asked another poster this question and they refused to answer it. I'll ask you now:
Ukraine cannot choose to end this war. It is being waged upon them.The Russian Federation can choose to end this war tomorrow, pack up it's troops and leave and it will have 100% of it's territory fully intact. This will end Ukrainian conscription. This will end Russian conscription. This will end Ukrainian deaths. This will end Russian deaths. True or False?
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 02:26:10 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 02:10:53 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
He is not fighting for Zelensky or NATO, he is fighting for the independence of his country.
The sad reality is that NATO backing has prolonged this war no end, and as a result thousands more Ukrainian and Russian young men will die needlessly.
NATO backing has enabled Ukraine to defend itself, so yes in your perverted logic, it has indeed 'prolonged this war'. If only Ukraine had rolled over and ceased to exist, everything would be nice and peaceful.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 02:10:53 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
He is not fighting for Zelensky or NATO, he is fighting for the independence of his country.
I seen you comment on the Brit Election Thread and you called a certain group of people "Thick" . Pot , Kettle and Black sprang to mind !
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 24, 2024, 11:44:36 AMQuote from: Horse Box on June 23, 2024, 11:12:25 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 23, 2024, 01:51:43 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 23, 2024, 11:21:04 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:19:48 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:30:07 PM"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
All you do is post news from here or there.
You don't ever discuss the points being made - it's never crossed your mind to double check or question anything being said.
Have you read The Grand Chessboard' yet?
The Author was a supporter of Pol Pot , pro Israeli and supported the Mujahideen ( we all know how that went ) , no thanks .
Jeffrey's relying on you never reading it so he can claim what he likes about it. What happened to independent research? ;)
The quality of debate on this Thread is enthralling 8) .
Posting BBC articles and Jeffrey Sachs interviews is not debate. Why not debate some of Jeffrey's claims? I'm sure you must have double checked some of his talking points, given your interest in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Have you?
Didn`t realize it was mandatory to debate on here , do you make up the Forum rules . I have posted Articles to counter the Pro USA/Brit NATO nonsense on here . You might fancy yourself as a Toastmaster but you are a boring know it all :P !
Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to be forced to read the Grand Chessboard so as to understand and be persuaded why he needs to sacrifice his life in this tragic proxy war
Young Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
Too many Videos out there showing this kind of thuggery by the ukrainians , some great Videos out there of when the ordinary citizens fight back , TCC Officers don`t like it up èm
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 24, 2024, 02:37:35 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 02:26:10 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 02:10:53 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
He is not fighting for Zelensky or NATO, he is fighting for the independence of his country.
The sad reality is that NATO backing has prolonged this war no end, and as a result thousands more Ukrainian and Russian young men will die needlessly.
NATO backing has enabled Ukraine to defend itself, so yes in your perverted logic, it has indeed 'prolonged this war'. If only Ukraine had rolled over and ceased to exist, everything would be nice and peaceful.
I didn't realise Russia wanted to annex all of Ukraine.
Quote from: Horse Box on June 24, 2024, 03:57:53 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 24, 2024, 11:44:36 AMQuote from: Horse Box on June 23, 2024, 11:12:25 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 23, 2024, 01:51:43 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 23, 2024, 11:21:04 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 21, 2024, 03:19:48 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 21, 2024, 02:30:07 PM"Who listens to the BBC as a source", The IMF are wrong , Jeffrey Sachs is wrong , Telegram is lying to you putting up "fake" Videos , The Washington Post is wrong .
Okay Lads , just repeating the same line about reliable News sources isn`t the way to discredit anything ;) !
All you do is post news from here or there.
You don't ever discuss the points being made - it's never crossed your mind to double check or question anything being said.
Have you read The Grand Chessboard' yet?
The Author was a supporter of Pol Pot , pro Israeli and supported the Mujahideen ( we all know how that went ) , no thanks .
Jeffrey's relying on you never reading it so he can claim what he likes about it. What happened to independent research? ;)
The quality of debate on this Thread is enthralling 8) .
Posting BBC articles and Jeffrey Sachs interviews is not debate. Why not debate some of Jeffrey's claims? I'm sure you must have double checked some of his talking points, given your interest in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Have you?
Didn`t realize it was mandatory to debate on here , do you make up the Forum rules . I have posted Articles to counter the Pro USA/Brit NATO nonsense on here . You might fancy yourself as a Toastmaster but you are a boring know it all :P !
The articles you post are little other than the same old Russian propaganda peddled on here by others that stand up to very little scrutiny. I thought it being a discussion board you might like to take the opportunity to defend the contents of your articles. It seems you're not capable of even trying.
Quote from: Horse Box on June 24, 2024, 04:03:48 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to be forced to read the Grand Chessboard so as to understand and be persuaded why he needs to sacrifice his life in this tragic proxy war
Young Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
Too many Videos out there showing this kind of thuggery by the ukrainians , some great Videos out there of when the ordinary citizens fight back , TCC Officers don`t like it up èm
Your last telegram compilation was typical for such videos. Zero context or clue of what is going on in them.
Do you even know what language they were speaking in the barracks?
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 04:36:25 PMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 24, 2024, 02:37:35 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 02:26:10 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 02:10:53 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
He is not fighting for Zelensky or NATO, he is fighting for the independence of his country.
The sad reality is that NATO backing has prolonged this war no end, and as a result thousands more Ukrainian and Russian young men will die needlessly.
NATO backing has enabled Ukraine to defend itself, so yes in your perverted logic, it has indeed 'prolonged this war'. If only Ukraine had rolled over and ceased to exist, everything would be nice and peaceful.
I didn't realise Russia wanted to annex all of Ukraine.
Did you miss the invasion of Feb 2022?
Was Russia trying to annex Ukraine?! I don't believe so. Why do you?
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 04:54:59 PMWas Russia trying to annex Ukraine?! I don't believe so. Why do you?
Just when I thought your brain couldn't get any smaller you just blow me off me off my feet!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 05:54:04 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 04:54:59 PMWas Russia trying to annex Ukraine?! I don't believe so. Why do you?
Just when I thought your brain couldn't get any smaller you just blow me off me off my feet!
So, Mr. Mensa, show us the evidence the says Russia was trying to annex Ukraine.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 06:31:24 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 05:54:04 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 04:54:59 PMWas Russia trying to annex Ukraine?! I don't believe so. Why do you?
Just when I thought your brain couldn't get any smaller you just blow me off me off my feet!
So, Mr. Mensa, show us the evidence the says Russia was trying to annex Ukraine.
Why are they blasting cites to dust outside of the Russian speaking areas?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 06:46:17 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 06:31:24 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 05:54:04 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 04:54:59 PMWas Russia trying to annex Ukraine?! I don't believe so. Why do you?
Just when I thought your brain couldn't get any smaller you just blow me off me off my feet!
So, Mr. Mensa, show us the evidence the says Russia was trying to annex Ukraine.
Why are they blasting cites to dust outside of the Russian speaking areas?
Oh Jesus, you're out of your depth, pal.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 06:54:30 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 06:46:17 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 06:31:24 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 05:54:04 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 04:54:59 PMWas Russia trying to annex Ukraine?! I don't believe so. Why do you?
Just when I thought your brain couldn't get any smaller you just blow me off me off my feet!
So, Mr. Mensa, show us the evidence the says Russia was trying to annex Ukraine.
Why are they blasting cites to dust outside of the Russian speaking areas?
Oh Jesus, you're out of your depth, pal.
Alright.. hopefully you can head over and help with Putins reserves, seeing as it's a just annex ;D
What are you on about? You really do have the mentality of a schoolboy. Stick to the refereeing.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 07:09:14 PMWhat are you on about? You really do have the mentality of a schoolboy. Stick to the refereeing.
Is Kyiv part of the disputed Russian territory? And has it been bombed at anytime?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 09:52:47 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 07:09:14 PMWhat are you on about? You really do have the mentality of a schoolboy. Stick to the refereeing.
Is Kyiv part of the disputed Russian territory? And has it been bombed at anytime?
You know well it's not, but you also know well it's not been "blasted to dust". Bakhmut - now that WAS blasted to dust (by both sides). As was Mariupol - although there's been a good amount of reconstruction done there.
Following your logic, the the Brits wanted to annex Dresden, or the Yanks Hiroshima.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 10:27:09 PMFollowing your logic, the the Brits wanted to annex Dresden, or the Yanks Hiroshima.
I think you are the one that needs to look at your logic. Germany and Japan attacked the Allies and so as a consequence their cities were attacked. The point here is not about cities, it is about not invading your neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's oblast.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 10:32:22 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 10:27:09 PMFollowing your logic, the the Brits wanted to annex Dresden, or the Yanks Hiroshima.
I think you are the one that needs to look at your logic. Germany and Japan attacked the Allies and so as a consequence their cities were attacked. The point here is not about cities, it is about not invading your neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's oblast.
That was not his point. Read back over what he said, and you will see that. We probably don't need to rehash the criminal nature of the attacks on Dresden and Hiroshima, but Milltown was linking the 'blasting of cities to dust' to the supposed Russian wish to annex Ukraine.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 10:38:25 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 10:32:22 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 10:27:09 PMFollowing your logic, the the Brits wanted to annex Dresden, or the Yanks Hiroshima.
I think you are the one that needs to look at your logic. Germany and Japan attacked the Allies and so as a consequence their cities were attacked. The point here is not about cities, it is about not invading your neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's oblast.
That was not his point. Read back over what he said, and you will see that. We probably don't need to rehash the criminal nature of the attacks on Dresden and Hiroshima, but Milltown was linking the 'blasting of cities to dust' to the supposed Russian wish to annex Ukraine.
If Russia had not invaded Ukraine then no cities would have been blasted to dust.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 10:41:33 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 10:38:25 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 10:32:22 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 10:27:09 PMFollowing your logic, the the Brits wanted to annex Dresden, or the Yanks Hiroshima.
I think you are the one that needs to look at your logic. Germany and Japan attacked the Allies and so as a consequence their cities were attacked. The point here is not about cities, it is about not invading your neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's oblast.
That was not his point. Read back over what he said, and you will see that. We probably don't need to rehash the criminal nature of the attacks on Dresden and Hiroshima, but Milltown was linking the 'blasting of cities to dust' to the supposed Russian wish to annex Ukraine.
If Russia had not invaded Ukraine then no cities would have been blasted to dust.
Well - duh!
Burd believes Russia is just trying to take back what's theirs? You can correct me if I'm wrong.
He believes that by bombing parts of that country that's not Russian speaking is ok. As that's what's needed to do the right thing!
But I'm the school boy
As for Dresden it was bombed with a view to end the war quicker, only some manic was willing to allow every German to die rather than surrender.
Good doc on Netflix about that currently, you should watch it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 11:10:22 PMAs for Dresden it was bombed with a view to end the war quicker, only some manic was willing to allow every German to die rather than surrender.
Within wars there are individual evil acts, but ultimately the root cause of all of these is the people who started the war.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 11:10:22 PMBurd believes Russia is just trying to take back what's theirs? You can correct me if I'm wrong.
He believes that by bombing parts of that country that's not Russian speaking is ok. As that's what's needed to do the right thing!
But I'm the school boy
As for Dresden it was bombed with a view to end the war quicker, only some manic was willing to allow every German to die rather than surrender.
Good doc on Netflix about that currently, you should watch it
Yes, you are the schoolboy. My contribution on the last page inferred NONE of the things you've assumed I believe. NOT ONE. Yet you fling about insults at me, and imply that I'm somehow stupid. I'm afraid your contributions to this and other threads are below par, and are barely worth responding to. They're not exactly challenging. In fairness, you're not the only one who resorts to insults when you can't convincingly argue a point, but it's still pretty tiresome.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2024, 11:18:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 11:10:22 PMAs for Dresden it was bombed with a view to end the war quicker, only some manic was willing to allow every German to die rather than surrender.
Within wars there are individual evil acts, but ultimately the root cause of all of these is the people who started the war.
All is fair in love and war, eh?! Of course, who is to blame for starting any war is only decided by history. Everything happens for a reason, and "Putin is a madman" is not a convincing reason. Sorry, but you have to go a bit deeper.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 11:29:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2024, 11:10:22 PMBurd believes Russia is just trying to take back what's theirs? You can correct me if I'm wrong.
He believes that by bombing parts of that country that's not Russian speaking is ok. As that's what's needed to do the right thing!
But I'm the school boy
As for Dresden it was bombed with a view to end the war quicker, only some manic was willing to allow every German to die rather than surrender.
Good doc on Netflix about that currently, you should watch it
Yes, you are the schoolboy. My contribution on the last page inferred NONE of the things you've assumed I believe. NOT ONE. Yet you fling about insults at me, and imply that I'm somehow stupid. I'm afraid your contributions to this and other threads are below par, and are barely worth responding to. They're not exactly challenging. In fairness, you're not the only one who resorts to insults when you can't convincingly argue a point, but it's still pretty tiresome.
So you're not going to answer a simple enough question?
You can't come one claiming Russia is just trying annex parts of another country and not expect some come back?
I'll put it in simple terms.
Do you believe Russia is just in what it's doing?
What? It has annexed parts of another country. Uh... I was asking where was the evidence that it wanted to annex all of Ukraine. This all started by someone putting up a video of (probably) Ukrainian 'press-gangs' grabbing some poor lad from his family for to send him to the front. He obviously didn't want to go, and couldn't give a shit about Donbass - and I'm sure he's not the only one. NATO, et al, is prolonging the war, so more and more lads like him are going to be sent to the meat grinder. Meanwhile, stooks on here, who swallow everything Netflix throws at them, egg on this blood-lust. Do I believe Russia is just? Well, yes and no - but it's hardly relevant. Russia thinks it's just, and for me, waving an EU or NATO flag is just too much. I think, feck it, let 'em have Crimea and Donbass, let America and her corporations have the rest of it, and then there'll be far less bloodshed. That's what I believe. And I've said it before in this thread - Ukraine is caught between a rock and a hard place. None of the protagonists truly has her interests at heart. Get over it, and let them live.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 24, 2024, 11:52:54 PMWhat? It has annexed parts of another country. Uh... I was asking where was the evidence that it wanted to annex all of Ukraine. This all started by someone putting up a video of (probably) Ukrainian 'press-gangs' grabbing some poor lad from his family for to send him to the front. He obviously didn't want to go, and couldn't give a shit about Donbass - and I'm sure he's not the only one. NATO, et al, is prolonging the war, so more and more lads like him are going to be sent to the meat grinder. Meanwhile, stooks on here, who swallow everything Netflix throws at them, egg on this blood-lust. Do I believe Russia is just? Well, yes and no - but it's hardly relevant. Russia thinks it's just, and for me, waving an EU or NATO flag is just too much. I think, feck it, let 'em have Crimea and Donbass, let America and her corporations have the rest of it, and then there'll be far less bloodshed. That's what I believe. And I've said it before in this thread - Ukraine is caught between a rock and a hard place. None of the protagonists truly has her interests at heart. Get over it, and let them live.
Top post.
Ukraine are not getting all these weapons and arms for free. All these debts have to be paid back. If they don't lose their Sovereignty to the east, the West will be there to mop up the sloppy seconds.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 24, 2024, 04:47:33 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 24, 2024, 04:03:48 PMQuote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2024, 01:56:56 PMYoung Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to be forced to read the Grand Chessboard so as to understand and be persuaded why he needs to sacrifice his life in this tragic proxy war
Young Ukrainian father ripped away from his family to fight for Zelensky and NATO (https://x.com/narrative_hole/status/1805162713745945084?t=rTmS6CifIzkHoz3w0-Jz0Q&s=19)
Too many Videos out there showing this kind of thuggery by the ukrainians , some great Videos out there of when the ordinary citizens fight back , TCC Officers don`t like it up èm
Your last telegram compilation was typical for such videos. Zero context or clue of what is going on in them.
Do you even know what language they were speaking in the barracks?
Look Professor , you want to ignore the brutal tactics of the ukrainian regime and its puppet masters , the US/Britain and NATO . Another cowardly attack carried out on Sunday by the ukrianian Narco Fuhrer`s Army on innocent civilians in the Crimea . This along with plenty of others since 2014 in the Donbass area and more recently Belogard . The Fascist regime is getting really desperate with the amount of ground lost recently it is back to , unfortunately taking it out on civilians :
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/274431925/kremlin-issues-warning-over-barbaric-crimea-attack
Look lads, you are not codding anyone.
Russia invaded Ukraine, they started the war, they caused all the deaths and destruction. At any time they can stop the war, go back to their own country and the deaths and destruction will stop.
So basically what the UK has been doing to the north of this country has been justified all this time?
Mad Ted stuff!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2024, 07:14:11 AMSo basically what the UK has been doing to the north of this country has been justified all this time?
Mad Ted stuff!
What on earth are you on about? Yet again you extrapolate something from my post that is simply not there. If anything, Russia taking back land in Ukraine it considers historically part of the Russian nation, is similar to Ireland's claim to the six counties.
Now, you must late for school. Trot on.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 25, 2024, 08:56:13 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2024, 07:14:11 AMSo basically what the UK has been doing to the north of this country has been justified all this time?
Mad Ted stuff!
What on earth are you on about? Yet again you extrapolate something from my post that is simply not there. If anything, Russia taking back land in Ukraine it considers historically part of the Russian nation, is similar to Ireland's claim to the six counties.
Now, you must late for school. Trot on.
The mental gymnastics to go through to justify Russian invasion into another country is staggering.
BTW I don't support the US involvement in any war be it Proxy or full on, same as I don't support Russia moving in on a sovereign state (be it regions or not) and claiming it as its own because there are Russian speakers
As for conscriptions that would not be happening if there was no war, you can at least agree on that.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 25, 2024, 08:56:13 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2024, 07:14:11 AMSo basically what the UK has been doing to the north of this country has been justified all this time?
Mad Ted stuff!
What on earth are you on about? Yet again you extrapolate something from my post that is simply not there. If anything, Russia taking back land in Ukraine it considers historically part of the Russian nation, is similar to Ireland's claim to the six counties.
Now, you must late for school. Trot on.
Will you quit. Crimea was there for thousands of years without any Russians in it. Russia has only ruled Crimea for a shorter time than the US has been independent. There were few enough of the "Russian nation" there until they planted it and deported the natives to Siberia.
This has nothing to do with 6 counties, which are by definition part of Ireland.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2024, 12:25:57 AMLook lads, you are not codding anyone.
Russia invaded Ukraine, they started the war, they caused all the deaths and destruction. At any time they can stop the war, go back to their own country and the deaths and destruction will stop.
Tell me you`re an idiot without telling me you are an idiot ::) !
Quote from: burdizzo on June 25, 2024, 08:56:13 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2024, 07:14:11 AMSo basically what the UK has been doing to the north of this country has been justified all this time?
Mad Ted stuff!
What on earth are you on about? Yet again you extrapolate something from my post that is simply not there. If anything, Russia taking back land in Ukraine it considers historically part of the Russian nation, is similar to Ireland's claim to the six counties.
Now, you must late for school. Trot on.
100% , what many Nationalists wanted The Free State Army to do in `69 !
The whole of the 'west' just goes along with the US's aggressive geopolitical interests and we consistently find out many years later the media spun stories justifying the righteousness of their aggressions don't hold water (Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Libya), but people are still unskeptical about the latest and greatest geopolitical stories of the day put out by the MSM.
Russia and the US are involved in a proxy war right up against the Russian border. Would it not get your heckles up if something similar happened on your doorstep?
WW3 is a very distinct possibility given the posturing going on and I can see people take a very different position when their sons and daughters are asked to go to the front to 'defend freedom' when it becomes a requirement
Media, whatever side uses it will use it for their own purposes, we can agree on that.
Shifting through the bullshit is the skill, but blindly believing one over the other is wrong, the truth lies somewhere in between
Quote from: Horse Box on June 25, 2024, 01:46:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2024, 12:25:57 AMLook lads, you are not codding anyone.
Russia invaded Ukraine, they started the war, they caused all the deaths and destruction. At any time they can stop the war, go back to their own country and the deaths and destruction will stop.
Tell me you`re an idiot without telling me you are an idiot ::) !
I note that you did not refute any part of my post but merely abused the poster. That's par for the course.
Only idiot, is that denying Russia invaded Ukraine for a quick regime change and a land grab.
Bit of tidying up there.
Previously banned poster red-carded again.
Why would you keep coming back to a place you've been kicked out of numerous times?
My goodness! I wondered what had happened!
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 25, 2024, 10:48:56 PMBit of tidying up there.
Previously banned poster red-carded again.
Can you ban an IP? Would be handier for you if so.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 25, 2024, 10:57:47 PMQuote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 25, 2024, 10:48:56 PMBit of tidying up there.
Previously banned poster red-carded again.
Can you ban an IP? Would be handier for you if so.
He'd simply reboot his router. Or use a Russian VPN.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 25, 2024, 10:57:47 PMQuote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 25, 2024, 10:48:56 PMBit of tidying up there.
Previously banned poster red-carded again.
Can you ban an IP? Would be handier for you if so.
I can...and do.
A few lads still on thin ice by the way...between here and "The far right" thread. Includes a few lads not previously banned as well.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2024, 11:10:16 PMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 25, 2024, 10:57:47 PMQuote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 25, 2024, 10:48:56 PMBit of tidying up there.
Previously banned poster red-carded again.
Can you ban an IP? Would be handier for you if so.
He'd simply reboot his router. Or use a Russian VPN.
Or next door's wifi...possibilities are pretty much endless I suppose.
Gerry boy?
Quote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2024, 07:29:16 AMGérard who joined this GAA forum just over two weeks ago to primarily discuss this topic wants to hawkishly convince you that Ukrainian men need to keeping fighting and dying in this egged on war rather than their leaders try to work for some sort peace deal. You have to wonder what drives people
His encampment/trolling on this thread and the uber partisan message he was spouting felt very psyopsy to me from the get go.
Quote from: theskull1 on June 26, 2024, 08:51:19 AMQuote from: theskull1 on June 19, 2024, 07:29:16 AMGérard who joined this GAA forum just over two weeks ago to primarily discuss this topic wants to hawkishly convince you that Ukrainian men need to keeping fighting and dying in this egged on war rather than their leaders try to work for some sort peace deal. You have to wonder what drives people
His encampment/trolling on this thread and the uber partisan message he was spouting felt very psyopsy to me from the get go.
Yes, the literally tens of people he was reaching was crucial to the effort. Psyops indeed.
The pro Russian guff on this thread is embarrassing, GON was 100% correct in his reading of the situation btw.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2024, 05:28:47 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 25, 2024, 01:46:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2024, 12:25:57 AMLook lads, you are not codding anyone.
Russia invaded Ukraine, they started the war, they caused all the deaths and destruction. At any time they can stop the war, go back to their own country and the deaths and destruction will stop.
Tell me you`re an idiot without telling me you are an idiot ::) !
I note that you did not refute any part of my post but merely abused the poster. That's par for the course.
So Russia strolls home and everything is rosy in the garden , this is idiotic "logic" ! The Ethnic tensions in the region is the reason Russia went into The Donbass . The persecution of the Russian Community mainly in Donetsk and Luhansk is the reason Russia responded as they did !
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2024, 11:10:16 PMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 25, 2024, 10:57:47 PMQuote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 25, 2024, 10:48:56 PMBit of tidying up there.
Previously banned poster red-carded again.
Can you ban an IP? Would be handier for you if so.
He'd simply reboot his router. Or use a Russian VPN.
;D ;D ;D . . . .
Quote from: Horse Box on June 26, 2024, 11:37:53 AMSo Russia strolls home and everything is rosy in the garden , this is idiotic "logic" ! The Ethnic tensions in the region is the reason Russia went into The Donbass . The persecution of the Russian Community mainly in Donetsk and Luhansk is the reason Russia responded as they did !
One hears of this 'persecution' from less than credible sources, but oddly there is never any concrete information on what it actually was and how it justifies a war killing hundreds of thousands of people.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2024, 09:36:05 AMYes, the literally tens of people he was reaching was crucial to the effort. Psyops indeed.
His dedicated trolling on this thread alone was strange .... even more so given we agree he's reaching so few people.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2024, 09:36:05 AMThe pro Russian guff on this thread is embarrassing, GON was 100% correct in his reading of the situation btw.
What's embarrassing is your cast iron certainty that the story you're being told is the whole story given the untruths of the past whilst completely discounting reasonable voices on the other side. I've never claimed such certainty in anything I've said but I'm persuaded by the arguments made about the US driving this engagement. By saying that alone as I'm with not you, I'm with
the terrorist pro russian ::)
Grow up
What is it with the Conspiracy theorist mindset that they regularly seem to think they are the only ones reading varied sources? When largely their own sources are generally not varied, but just alternative/contrary.
Love reading stuff on social media when the conspiracy shit hits the fan! Area 51, flat earth, the moon landings
Quote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2024, 09:36:05 AMGON was 100% correct in his reading of the situation btw.
GON but not forgotten, eh?
Quote from: theskull1 on June 26, 2024, 12:37:00 PMQuote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2024, 09:36:05 AMYes, the literally tens of people he was reaching was crucial to the effort. Psyops indeed.
His dedicated trolling on this thread alone was strange .... even more so given we agree he's reaching so few people.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2024, 09:36:05 AMThe pro Russian guff on this thread is embarrassing, GON was 100% correct in his reading of the situation btw.
What's embarrassing is your cast iron certainty that the story you're being told is the whole story given the untruths of the past whilst completely discounting reasonable voices on the other side. I've never claimed such certainty in anything I've said but I'm persuaded by the arguments made about the US driving this engagement. By saying that alone as I'm with not you, I'm with the terrorist pro russian ::)
Grow up
Of course we would listen to reasonable voices, if you could direct us to any.
This idea of the US controlling this process is exactly the same type of false argument that was used in Brexit in the Mail and Telegraph, i.e. that Varadkar was a puppet of Brussels in demanding that trade continue over the Irish border. Varadkar wanted trade to continue over the Irish border because that is what the
people of Ireland wanted, Brussels were working for the people of Ireland in assisting this. Likewise, Zelensky is representing what the
people of Ukraine want and the US is helping them do that. The people of Ukraine want to be Poland, not Belorussia and what reasonable person would fail to support them in that wish?
Quote from: burdizzo on June 26, 2024, 01:05:42 PMQuote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2024, 09:36:05 AMGON was 100% correct in his reading of the situation btw.
GON but not forgotten, eh?
thats actually quite funny
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 26, 2024, 12:58:13 PMLove reading stuff on social media when the conspiracy shit hits the fan! Area 51, flat earth, the moon landings
I still maintain that the best one is Greenland doesn't exist.
Finland, isn't it?
Or is that just what the Greenland-industrial complex want us to think?
Quote from: Horse Box on June 26, 2024, 11:37:53 AMQuote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2024, 05:28:47 PMQuote from: Horse Box on June 25, 2024, 01:46:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2024, 12:25:57 AMLook lads, you are not codding anyone.
Russia invaded Ukraine, they started the war, they caused all the deaths and destruction. At any time they can stop the war, go back to their own country and the deaths and destruction will stop.
Tell me you`re an idiot without telling me you are an idiot ::) !
I note that you did not refute any part of my post but merely abused the poster. That's par for the course.
So Russia strolls home and everything is rosy in the garden , this is idiotic "logic" ! The Ethnic tensions in the region is the reason Russia went into The Donbass . The persecution of the Russian Community mainly in Donetsk and Luhansk is the reason Russia responded as they did !
More Horse box shíte.
Since the 1920's the Soviet Union has used the ethnic tension excuse to suppress ethnic culture, language etc and impose Russification as the solution, burn the ethnic textbooks, wipe out the history and impose the Russian language. Exactly the stuff what is happening in occupied Ukraine now.
You just parrot the century old Kremlin lies, not even realizing the parrot is long dead :D
Only a total useless idiot parrots this guff.
Meanwhile at Euro 24, at the match between Ukraine and Belgium, fans unfolded a banner of fallen paramedic Nazarii Hryntsevych, who went under call sign Hrienka.
The banner read "Peace has a price"
(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/c/c/cc4ed7f-graykh1x0akzqnv_690x387.jpg)
It is composed of 182 pictures of fallen Ukrainian soldiers who used to be fans of Ukrainian football clubs.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRAyKHdXsAALwzg?format=jpg&name=large)
Not be long before your sons will be needed
https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1806293162266406931?t=kMZ3FgzSw22sHG6kw9KByg&s=19 (https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1806293162266406931?t=kMZ3FgzSw22sHG6kw9KByg&s=19)
Hi Main Street , how are you ? Any links or sources to what you put up there ?
Anyway ukrainian support are on the way home from the Euros ( probable that a lot live in Germany and surrounds ) ! Wonder if the TCC Officers will be waiting at the Airport or on the Border for the ones that travelled to pick them up and take them to the Front ? Unlikely as they are the sons and daughters of the Kiev well to do . It`s the unfortunate Working Class that will have to fight the US/NATO War !
Anywho don`t mean to derail the Thread but bad enough that The US is backing the murderous Zionist regime and also backing the Narco Fuhrers regime in ukraine , now the CIA tried to overthrow the legitimate Government of Bolivia !
https://www.cryptopolitan.com/bolivias-coup-tied-to-intent-to-join-brics/
I dunno how anyone could post the above on this site and not expect to be laughed out of the room. It's like O'Neill taking the piss back in the day.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 26, 2024, 06:57:22 PMOr is that just what the Greenland-industrial complex want us to think?
I heard that they were big players in the Christmas market.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 27, 2024, 05:15:24 PMI dunno how anyone could post the above on this site and not expect to be laughed out of the room. It's like O'Neill taking the piss back in the day.
O'Neill's fabrications were quite imaginative and much superior to these horse box sweepings.
Oh, Superman, where are you now
When everything's gone wrong somehow?
The men of steel, the men of power
Are losing control by the hour
(https://i.ibb.co/Xb3ZPPJ/IMG-6810-jpeg-3257353-1.jpg)
I see that Russian disinformation trolls were hard at work coming up with the fake story that Mrs Zelensky bought as $4.5 million Bugatti car in Paris. They went as far as to create a fake video, fake news site, fake invoice, fake interview with the supposed car salesman.
It was quickly debunked, but not before thousands had seen and liked the posts promoting it.
For example, Jackson Hinkle a Kremlin asset from America, posted a link about it that was seen by more than 6.5m people.
It looks like the Russian strategy is to keep pumping out this stuff that will be believed by low information, less intelligent people on socials. Having it debunked days or hours later only partly retrieves the situation.
Quote from: Dag Dog on July 04, 2024, 02:07:33 PMI see that Russian disinformation trolls were hard at work coming up with the fake story that Mrs Zelensky bought as $4.5 million Bugatti car in Paris. They went as far as to create a fake video, fake news site, fake invoice, fake interview with the supposed car salesman.
It was quickly debunked, but not before thousands had seen and liked the posts promoting it.
For example, Jackson Hinkle a Kremlin asset from America, posted a link about it that was seen by more than 6.5m people.
It looks like the Russian strategy is to keep pumping out this stuff that will be believed by low information, less intelligent people on socials. Having it debunked days or hours later only partly retrieves the situation.
There's definitely one or two on this thread will have swallowed it hook, line and sinker!
Quote from: Father Murphy on July 04, 2024, 05:56:09 PMThere's definitely one or two on this thread will have swallowed it hook, line and sinker!
Be very careful (on your high horse), there is stuff you swallow on a daily basis from what you consider to be reliable sources, who are also not telling you the truth or controlling the narrative. We are all subject to it from both sides.
Speak for your own gullibility :)
Meanwhile back on the Front, see just how a World superpower army´s busiest unit evacuate the fallen.
(https://i.ibb.co/5rnBHLL/ru-coroner-unit-002-1-001-1.gif)
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 04, 2024, 07:48:43 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 04, 2024, 05:56:09 PMThere's definitely one or two on this thread will have swallowed it hook, line and sinker!
Be very careful (on your high horse), there is stuff you swallow on a daily basis from what you consider to be reliable sources, who are also not telling you the truth or controlling the narrative. We are all subject to it from both sides.
'Both sides' is the fallback pro-Russian position when everything else has failed. Now being used as the get out for being caught red handed with clumsy easily debunked propaganda.
Now, if I was a thinking man who had unfortunately fallen prey to a bit of Russian propaganda regarding the Zelenskyys, but hadn't completely lost my critical thinking ability, I'd be asking myself:
1. If the Zelenskyys are sooo corrupt why do the Russians have to make this shit up about them?
2. What else have I already swallowed that is complete bullshit?
Quote from: Dag Dog on July 04, 2024, 02:07:33 PMI see that Russian disinformation trolls were hard at work coming up with the fake story that Mrs Zelensky bought as $4.5 million Bugatti car in Paris. They went as far as to create a fake video, fake news site, fake invoice, fake interview with the supposed car salesman.
It was quickly debunked, but not before thousands had seen and liked the posts promoting it.
For example, Jackson Hinkle a Kremlin asset from America, posted a link about it that was seen by more than 6.5m people.
It looks like the Russian strategy is to keep pumping out this stuff that will be believed by low information, less intelligent people on socials. Having it debunked days or hours later only partly retrieves the situation.
Do you think this type of propaganda is only done by the Russians?
Quote from: Itchy on July 04, 2024, 09:32:20 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on July 04, 2024, 02:07:33 PMI see that Russian disinformation trolls were hard at work coming up with the fake story that Mrs Zelensky bought as $4.5 million Bugatti car in Paris. They went as far as to create a fake video, fake news site, fake invoice, fake interview with the supposed car salesman.
It was quickly debunked, but not before thousands had seen and liked the posts promoting it.
For example, Jackson Hinkle a Kremlin asset from America, posted a link about it that was seen by more than 6.5m people.
It looks like the Russian strategy is to keep pumping out this stuff that will be believed by low information, less intelligent people on socials. Having it debunked days or hours later only partly retrieves the situation.
Do you think this type of propaganda is only done by the Russians?
Where did I suggest that?
I am well aware of the propaganda game, no need to whatabout or both side it.
You seem a bit sore about it though.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 04, 2024, 07:48:43 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 04, 2024, 05:56:09 PMThere's definitely one or two on this thread will have swallowed it hook, line and sinker!
Be very careful (on your high horse), there is stuff you swallow on a daily basis from what you consider to be reliable sources, who are also not telling you the truth or controlling the narrative. We are all subject to it from both sides.
"Both sides"..."all the media tells lies". That's usually the easy cop out when someone holds an opinion that they find difficult to back up.
Welcome back.
Quote from: Dag Dog on July 04, 2024, 09:57:42 PMQuote from: Itchy on July 04, 2024, 09:32:20 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on July 04, 2024, 02:07:33 PMI see that Russian disinformation trolls were hard at work coming up with the fake story that Mrs Zelensky bought as $4.5 million Bugatti car in Paris. They went as far as to create a fake video, fake news site, fake invoice, fake interview with the supposed car salesman.
It was quickly debunked, but not before thousands had seen and liked the posts promoting it.
For example, Jackson Hinkle a Kremlin asset from America, posted a link about it that was seen by more than 6.5m people.
It looks like the Russian strategy is to keep pumping out this stuff that will be believed by low information, less intelligent people on socials. Having it debunked days or hours later only partly retrieves the situation.
Do you think this type of propaganda is only done by the Russians?
Where did I suggest that?
I am well aware of the propaganda game, no need to whatabout or both side it.
You seem a bit sore about it though.
No not sore. I believe nothing from yanks or Russians
Quote from: Dag Dog on July 04, 2024, 10:01:03 PMQuote from: From the Bunker on July 04, 2024, 07:48:43 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 04, 2024, 05:56:09 PMThere's definitely one or two on this thread will have swallowed it hook, line and sinker!
Be very careful (on your high horse), there is stuff you swallow on a daily basis from what you consider to be reliable sources, who are also not telling you the truth or controlling the narrative. We are all subject to it from both sides.
"Both sides"..."all the media tells lies". That's usually the easy cop out when someone holds an opinion that they find difficult to back up.
I had no opinion that needed to be backed up. I had noting to cop out off. Just stating that all the lies don't come just from one side.
Russia invaded Ukraine, not both sides are at it
Russia is bombing the sh'it out of all and sundry in Ukraine, rape, pillage and plunder.
Not both side are at it bull.
The only nations that Russia haven't invaded are those who are members of NATO.
The Baltic nations had to fight tooth and nail for NATO to accept them as members.
Russia has the intention to bomb pillage and plunder their way across a sovereign independent nation,
there is no both sides are at it bullshít.
The Kremlin is a permanent source of toxic sludge propaganda (https://theins.press/en/politics/272870) and have no qualms about sponsoring such harmful hybrid warfare incidents against Ireland.
The Kremlin lie about everything all of the time, that's the default starting point before anyone can make some sense of the rest.
This is a war of ugly aggression by Russia against Ukraine. Russia is off begging help from China and North Korea whilst Ukraine are begging help from the rest of Europe, USA, Japan, Australia and Sth Korea.
You can shove the both sides are it spiel up where the sun don't shine.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 05, 2024, 12:28:17 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on July 04, 2024, 10:01:03 PMQuote from: From the Bunker on July 04, 2024, 07:48:43 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 04, 2024, 05:56:09 PMThere's definitely one or two on this thread will have swallowed it hook, line and sinker!
Be very careful (on your high horse), there is stuff you swallow on a daily basis from what you consider to be reliable sources, who are also not telling you the truth or controlling the narrative. We are all subject to it from both sides.
"Both sides"..."all the media tells lies". That's usually the easy cop out when someone holds an opinion that they find difficult to back up.
I had no opinion that needed to be backed up. I had noting to cop out off. Just stating that all the lies don't come just from one side.
A really profound and informative opinion.
Quote from: Main Street on July 05, 2024, 12:53:17 AMRussia invaded Ukraine, not both sides are at it
Russia is bombing the sh'it out of all and sundry in Ukraine, rape, pillage and plunder.
Not both side are at it bull.
The only nations that Russia haven't invaded are those who are members of NATO.
The Baltic nations had to fight tooth and nail for NATO to accept them as members.
Russia has the intention to bomb pillage and plunder their way across a sovereign independent nation,
there is no both sides are at it bullshít.
The Kremlin is a permanent source of toxic sludge propaganda (https://theins.press/en/politics/272870) and have no qualms about sponsoring such harmful hybrid warfare incidents against Ireland.
The Kremlin lie about everything all of the time, that's the default starting point before anyone can make some sense of the rest.
This is a war of ugly aggression by Russia against Ukraine. Russia is off begging help from China and North Korea whilst Ukraine are begging help from the rest of Europe, USA, Japan, Australia and Sth Korea.
You can shove the both sides are it spiel up where the sun don't shine.
That's it in a nutshell.
The people who both side it and whatabout think they're being clever by pulling rabbits out of hats.
One side bad ... other side good ::)
You would think the US has never invaded or overthrown anywhere in the last 70 years ::)
Quote from: theskull1 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:59 AMOne side bad ... other side good ::)
You would think the US has never invaded or overthrown anywhere in the last 70 years ::)
Did the US invade Ukraine - or did I miss something?
Quote from: theskull1 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:59 AMOne side bad ... other side good ::)
You would think the US has never invaded or overthrown anywhere in the last 70 years ::)
And what?
If Keir Starmer decided to recapture the 26 counties, and the USA backed Ireland, would you spout the same glib banalities?
The both siders would be pointing to Michael Lowry, Bertie Ahern and Ireland being an EU member without Britain's permission as justification.
Quote from: Father Murphy on July 05, 2024, 11:18:02 AMQuote from: theskull1 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:59 AMOne side bad ... other side good ::)
You would think the US has never invaded or overthrown anywhere in the last 70 years ::)
Did the US invade Ukraine - or did I miss something?
It appears you missed them invading Iraq and making up a load of lies about why. But you are probably only 14 so maybe its before your time.
Quote from: Itchy on July 05, 2024, 12:16:44 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 05, 2024, 11:18:02 AMQuote from: theskull1 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:59 AMOne side bad ... other side good ::)
You would think the US has never invaded or overthrown anywhere in the last 70 years ::)
Did the US invade Ukraine - or did I miss something?
It appears you missed them invading Iraq and making up a load of lies about why. But you are probably only 14 so maybe its before your time.
Should Russia withdraw from Ukraine? Yes, or No.
Could you answer that in isolation without whatabouting?
I'd have far more respect for people who came straight out with it and announce that they want Russia to prevail, mainly because they want to see a bloody nose given to The West, USA, NATO, the EU etc.
Not this speaking in forked tongue, whataboutism, both siding, look over there.
Quote from: Itchy on July 05, 2024, 12:16:44 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 05, 2024, 11:18:02 AMQuote from: theskull1 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:59 AMOne side bad ... other side good ::)
You would think the US has never invaded or overthrown anywhere in the last 70 years ::)
Did the US invade Ukraine - or did I miss something?
It appears you missed them invading Iraq and making up a load of lies about why. But you are probably only 14 so maybe its before your time.
No I didn't miss that.
I also didn't miss the lies about WMD either or whatever other falsehoods were told.
I also can't recall any posters on GAABoard supporting outright, attempting to deflect with whataboutery, making excuses or propagating the lies of the Americans with regard to their invasion of Iraq.
Can you direct me to any?
I'm sure you'll know why I'm asking ;)
Quote from: Dag Dog on July 05, 2024, 12:44:59 PMQuote from: Itchy on July 05, 2024, 12:16:44 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 05, 2024, 11:18:02 AMQuote from: theskull1 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:59 AMOne side bad ... other side good ::)
You would think the US has never invaded or overthrown anywhere in the last 70 years ::)
Did the US invade Ukraine - or did I miss something?
It appears you missed them invading Iraq and making up a load of lies about why. But you are probably only 14 so maybe its before your time.
Should Russia withdraw from Ukraine? Yes, or No.
Could you answer that in isolation without whatabouting?
I'd have far more respect for people who came straight out with it and announce that they want Russia to prevail, mainly because they want to see a bloody nose given to The West, USA, NATO, the EU etc.
Not this speaking in forked tongue, whataboutism, both siding, look over there.
Answer = Yes, Russia should withdraw immediately from Ukraine and cease their illegal war there.
My point is not whataboutery, its pointing out that the Yanks are every bit as bad as Russians and have been illegally invading, interfering and killing people too just like the Russians.
Maybe change the thread title (or a new one) to 'Why the Russians invaded Ukraine' ;) ;)
Russia bombs hospital in Ukraine, most have been hiding arms in there
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 08, 2024, 06:07:31 PMRussia bombs hospital in Ukraine, most have been hiding arms in there
<insert russian propaganda> made them do it.
It's getting harder to find "volunteers" to become fertilizer in Ukraine :o
(https://i.ibb.co/4spVFZS/2024-07-16-211843-1920x1080-scrot.jpg)
I wouldn't be keen on being dead for £14,000.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 18, 2024, 12:15:47 AMI wouldn't be keen on being dead for £14,000.
You get to drive a WW 2 tank.
Reports suggesting Ukraine has invaded Russia in the Kursk region
Apparently they have penetrated up to 40km into Russia with a very mobile corps of possibly 2500 troops with air support
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on August 08, 2024, 11:21:12 PMReports suggesting Ukraine has invaded Russia in the Kursk region
Apparently they have penetrated up to 40km into Russia with a very mobile corps of possibly 25k troops with air support
Another stunt, I'd imagine. They're getting bummed everywhere else.
Last outing in Kursk lost about 3 tank Divisions yesteryear!
Why would you imagine that? Schrodinger's war syndrome that ewan and the lads have had for as long as I can remember??
Well, what are they going to do? Take Moscow? Diversionary, publicity-coup. As I say, they're on the retreat inside Ukraine. Not that we hear much about that.
Divert Russian resources, strengthen future negotiation position, embarass them, put pressure on Putin, publicity coup, you know like actual war tactics, rather than throwing wave after wave of humans at gunfire?
Yeah, as if they haven't been wasting the lives of their soldiers up to now with suicide missions. Calls from within Ukraine for the pursuit of an unwinnable war to be reconsidered.
Quote from: burdizzo on August 08, 2024, 11:37:23 PMWell, what are they going to do? Take Moscow? Diversionary, publicity-coup. As I say, they're on the retreat inside Ukraine. Not that we hear much about that.
Just for you, since the deep state are tinkering with your internet browser:
https://www.ft.com/content/c716482f-c032-4993-aa12-985a4828ff9d
https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/08/06/russias-bloody-summer-offensive-is-hurting-ukraine
Can you see those ok, or is your computer acting strangely, might want to get it checked out.
No one knows what Ukraine's plan is due to tight Op-sec and there is much speculation but Burdy just pure 'knows' it's a diversionary publicity coup.
Funny isn't it, how the far right are also pro-Russian ;)
Quote from: burdizzo on August 08, 2024, 11:28:32 PMQuote from: manfromdelmonte on August 08, 2024, 11:21:12 PMReports suggesting Ukraine has invaded Russia in the Kursk region
Apparently they have penetrated up to 40km into Russia with a very mobile corps of possibly 25k troops with air support
Another stunt, I'd imagine. They're getting bummed everywhere else.
Youd do some whinging on another thread if Putin did win and Millions of Ukranians had to flee to avoid a nation wide version of Irpin and Bucha
Quote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2024, 09:27:17 AMYeah, as if they haven't been wasting the lives of their soldiers up to now with suicide missions. Calls from within Ukraine for the pursuit of an unwinnable war to be reconsidered.
How many soldiers have Russia thrown into the meat grinder now?
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on August 09, 2024, 11:07:47 PMQuote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2024, 09:27:17 AMYeah, as if they haven't been wasting the lives of their soldiers up to now with suicide missions. Calls from within Ukraine for the pursuit of an unwinnable war to be reconsidered.
How many soldiers have Russia thrown into the meat grinder now?
I would say a similar amount. However, for Russia it's not an unwinnable war. Not that it's much comfort to the families, of course. Or maybe it is a little? But for Ukrainians, it's just a total waste. I see the Russians were dropping 1/2 ton bombs on the platoon in Kursk. It's like I was saying about suicide missions...
Quote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2024, 11:14:39 PMQuote from: manfromdelmonte on August 09, 2024, 11:07:47 PMQuote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2024, 09:27:17 AMYeah, as if they haven't been wasting the lives of their soldiers up to now with suicide missions. Calls from within Ukraine for the pursuit of an unwinnable war to be reconsidered.
How many soldiers have Russia thrown into the meat grinder now?
I would say a similar amount. However, for Russia it's not an unwinnable war. Not that it's much comfort to the families, of course. Or maybe it is a little? But for Ukrainians, it's just a total waste. I see the Russians were dropping 1/2 ton bombs on the platoon in Kursk. It's like I was saying about suicide missions...
If the uk decided to invade Ireland again you'd just roll over and have your belly tickled?
Oh, wait ...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2024, 11:48:06 PMQuote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2024, 11:14:39 PMQuote from: manfromdelmonte on August 09, 2024, 11:07:47 PMQuote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2024, 09:27:17 AMYeah, as if they haven't been wasting the lives of their soldiers up to now with suicide missions. Calls from within Ukraine for the pursuit of an unwinnable war to be reconsidered.
How many soldiers have Russia thrown into the meat grinder now?
I would say a similar amount. However, for Russia it's not an unwinnable war. Not that it's much comfort to the families, of course. Or maybe it is a little? But for Ukrainians, it's just a total waste. I see the Russians were dropping 1/2 ton bombs on the platoon in Kursk. It's like I was saying about suicide missions...
If the uk decided to invade Ireland again you'd just roll over and have your belly tickled?
Oh, wait ...
He'd be going door to door pointing out people
Quote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2024, 11:14:39 PMQuote from: manfromdelmonte on August 09, 2024, 11:07:47 PMQuote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2024, 09:27:17 AMYeah, as if they haven't been wasting the lives of their soldiers up to now with suicide missions. Calls from within Ukraine for the pursuit of an unwinnable war to be reconsidered.
How many soldiers have Russia thrown into the meat grinder now?
I would say a similar amount. However, for Russia it's not an unwinnable war. Not that it's much comfort to the families, of course. Or maybe it is a little? But for Ukrainians, it's just a total waste. I see the Russians were dropping 1/2 ton bombs on the platoon in Kursk. It's like I was saying about suicide missions...
Indeed, at the current rate of progress Russia will have captured all of Luhansk by 2032, with 3 million casulties.
Quote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2024, 11:14:39 PMQuote from: manfromdelmonte on August 09, 2024, 11:07:47 PMQuote from: burdizzo on August 09, 2024, 09:27:17 AMYeah, as if they haven't been wasting the lives of their soldiers up to now with suicide missions. Calls from within Ukraine for the pursuit of an unwinnable war to be reconsidered.
How many soldiers have Russia thrown into the meat grinder now?
I would say a similar amount. However, for Russia it's not an unwinnable war. Not that it's much comfort to the families, of course. Or maybe it is a little? But for Ukrainians, it's just a total waste. I see the Russians were dropping 1/2 ton bombs on the platoon in Kursk. It's like I was saying about suicide missions...
It's the same tactic used by all pro-Russians on here masquerading as 'both siders'.
1. Criticise Ukraine relentlessly.
2. When called out meekly criticise Russia too but blame it all on Ukraine for fighting back.
3. Go back to step one.
The far right sure do love Russia.
Slava Ukraini
Burdizzo be called abit of a commie bck in the day.
For those in the know about the Kremlin's threat to censure You Tube
(https://i.postimg.cc/RFF7Wfyn/k6t43rtnd4o41.jpg)
Ukraine continues to push into Russia. It's a gutsy gamble. I've a feeling one day they'll make Belarus pay very heavily for facilitating the Russians on their border.
Quote from: Sportacus on August 21, 2024, 09:10:11 PMUkraine continues to push into Russia. It's a gutsy gamble. I've a feeling one day they'll make Belarus pay very heavily for facilitating the Russians on their border.
I have no such feeling. Ukraine will be lucky if they see this out with a small loss of Territory.
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2024, 09:57:26 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 21, 2024, 09:10:11 PMUkraine continues to push into Russia. It's a gutsy gamble. I've a feeling one day they'll make Belarus pay very heavily for facilitating the Russians on their border.
I have no such feeling. Ukraine will be lucky if they see this out with a small loss of Territory.
What is Ukraine's long-term plan?
Are they trying to take part of Russia or what?
Quote from: marty34 on August 21, 2024, 10:03:55 PMQuote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2024, 09:57:26 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 21, 2024, 09:10:11 PMUkraine continues to push into Russia. It's a gutsy gamble. I've a feeling one day they'll make Belarus pay very heavily for facilitating the Russians on their border.
I have no such feeling. Ukraine will be lucky if they see this out with a small loss of Territory.
What is Ukraine's long-term plan?
Are they trying to take part of Russia or what?
I wouldn't think so, but they're trying to rattle Russia, weaken Putin, perk up morale and give themselves something to bargain with. Hard to tell if it's desperation or very shrewd.
Quote from: marty34 on August 21, 2024, 10:03:55 PMQuote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2024, 09:57:26 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 21, 2024, 09:10:11 PMUkraine continues to push into Russia. It's a gutsy gamble. I've a feeling one day they'll make Belarus pay very heavily for facilitating the Russians on their border.
I have no such feeling. Ukraine will be lucky if they see this out with a small loss of Territory.
What is Ukraine's long-term plan?
Are they trying to take part of Russia or what?
I guess they are making Russian Civilian aware there is a war. It's all well and good for the Russian public if casualties are happening in Ukraine. If it's happening closer to home the attitude may be different.
Quote from: marty34 on August 21, 2024, 10:03:55 PMQuote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2024, 09:57:26 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 21, 2024, 09:10:11 PMUkraine continues to push into Russia. It's a gutsy gamble. I've a feeling one day they'll make Belarus pay very heavily for facilitating the Russians on their border.
I have no such feeling. Ukraine will be lucky if they see this out with a small loss of Territory.
Buffer zone. They also want to divert Russians from Donestsk but that hasn't happened so far.
What is Ukraine's long-term plan?
Are they trying to take part of Russia or what?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/21/ukraine-drone-strike-moscow-putin-russia-oligarchs-war/
Now that Ukrainian forces hold more than 1,250 square kilometres of Russian territory – a psychologically damaging situation which has not occurred since the Second World War – Putin's worries will only have been magnified by successful drone strikes overnight and this morning on Moscow itself.
In a rare admission of failure, Russian authorities confirmed that Ukraine launched over 45 separate drone sorties into Russian territory over the early hours of Wednesday. These, crucially, included at least 11 drone strikes on Moscow. This was one of the largest drone strikes on the capital since Russia widened its war on Ukraine in February 2022.
Today's strike is on a par with the May 2023 attack, when at least eight drones were destroyed over the capital in an attack that Putin said was Kyiv's attempt to 'scare and provoke' Russia. Quite how Ukraine can further provoke a country which has invaded it, occupies around 18 per cent of its territory, and has committed war crimes including the forced deportation of children into Russia, is a mystery.
But Ukraine most certainly has scared the Russian population. This is a very smart tactic by the Ukrainians, who increasingly overcome their disadvantages in manpower and conventional munitions by exploiting gaps in Russian defences.
Today's drone operations resulted in all three of Moscow's major airports shutting down, causing widespread travel disruption. Wealthy Muscovites far removed from the carnage and brutality of the Donbas woke up this morning to a real bombardment, and the terrifying noises and experiences of air defences shooting down drones over their leafy capital.
The Ukrainians will capture more of Kursk around their border, the area between the bridge they blew up and the border is a certainty. If they then stop at these natural obstacles then they will have an easily defended border where the Russians cannot easily attack them.
In Kursk the Ukrainians have been able to use aircraft, as there is little in the way of air defence. The Russians concentrated their air defences in the Donbas, but their problem now is that the Ukrainians are striking targets all over the place and some air defence will have to moved to defend these locations. The Russians are losing expensive air defence kit at a faster rate than they can replace it, and without it the drones can strike targets that Russia thought invulnerable. If the West can keep supply Ukraine with air defence kit then the Russians are in some difficulty. They have relied on aerial bombs to pound the Ukrainian defences, but the Ukrainians may eventually get organised to shoot down the aircraft that these bombs come from. In this case the Russians are only left with meat waves of infantry with very high casualties. Eventually people in Russia are going to get tired of this approach.
I am loving all this chat lads fair play to ya's. I am fascinated with the tactics behind war.
This might be a silly question but i will ask it anyway - Surly Russia could just bomb the fck out of Ukraine and end the war? How is a country the size of Ukraine putting up such a good fight and great resistance?
Quote from: samuel maguire on August 22, 2024, 04:00:15 PMI am loving all this chat lads fair play to ya's. I am fascinated with the tactics behind war.
This might be a silly question but i will ask it anyway - Surly Russia could just bomb the fck out of Ukraine and end the war? How is a country the size of Ukraine putting up such a good fight and great resistance?
As I said, if the West provide Ukraine with air defence, Patriots and such like, then Russia cannot bomb the fck out of Ukraine.
I don't think people realise the size of Kursk, Germans didn't neither and they knew what they were doing. Long term they have to withdraw at some stage, as its to easy to be caught in a pincer movement.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2024, 12:09:40 AMI don't think people realise the size of Kursk, Germans didn't neither and they knew what they were doing. Long term they have to withdraw at some stage, as its to easy to be caught in a pincer movement.
If the Ukrainians move up to natural obstacles, such as the river where they blew the bridges, then they could have a line much easier to defend than the actual Russia-Ukraine border.
What we call rivers here, like a stream to some of the wide rivers in that region.
(https://www.chappatte.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb/public/import_ld/I140412c.jpg?itok=XoZ1IGJU)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/26/fish-and-chips-price-rising-faster-than-other-uk-takeaways/The average cost for a cod and chips around the UK is almost £10, up more than 50 per cent in five years.
Inflation and soaring costs of potatoes and fish brought about by climate change and the war in Ukraine are partially to blame for the meal costing £9.88 in July 2024, the most recent available data, compared to £6.48 in July 2019.
The price to run a chippy has spiraled also, rates, fuel, electric on top of those things mentioned.
Was in the chippy last week, kids were looking a chippy and most 'suppers' were a tenner or more
Just a reminder for the know-nothings as to why Ukrainians are in Ireland and elsewhere.
https://x.com/wartranslated/status/1831258636057710667
That's Lviv - 70km from Poland.
Kharkiv, Poltava, Lviv...the Russian murder machine rumbles on and on.
And for others - make no mistake, as bad as the craven Biden-Harris administration is with regard to tying Ukraine's hands behind their backs, things would get much, much worse under Trump.
Another Mearsheimer-Sachs-Greenwald grifter has an important announcement:
https://x.com/rustyrockets/status/1832049459036864856?s=46
Tucker there for the big moment.
Quote from: Father Murphy on September 09, 2024, 03:29:05 PMAnother Mearsheimer-Sachs-Greenwald grifter has an important announcement:
https://x.com/rustyrockets/status/1832049459036864856?s=46
Tucker there for the big moment.
That's another dimension of surreal, hard to credit anyone who swallows those corny Kremlin charlatan propagandists.
On another note
The Russians started printing and hanging recruitment posters in Kursk showing a soldier saving a child. Apparently, they could not find an image of an actual Russian invader performing a humanitarian act so they used the image of a Ukrainian fighter.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXB-vK_WoAA7X6T?format=png&name=900x900)
Not long before NATO countries sons and daughters get pulled into this conflict and a wider world war.
No western puppet politician wants peace these days but no one seems to care. I hope those that support the arming of Ukraine, willingly encourage their children to do their duty for the cause.
We are for sure living through history.
Quote from: theskull1 on September 13, 2024, 09:40:13 PMNot long before NATO countries sons and daughters get pulled into this conflict and a wider world war.
No western puppet politician wants peace these days but no one seems to care. I hope those that support the arming of Ukraine, willingly encourage their children to do their duty for the cause.
We are for sure living through history.
People do support peace, we want Ukraine to have peace and not be invaded by the c*nts next door.
Yes ...no one has started and egged on more conflict in the last 30 years than Russia :-\
Democracy
Skull doesn't want peace. He wants Ukrainian surrender and Russian victory. Ukrainian lives don't matter to him. The men, women and children blown to pieces and raped by Russian soldiers don't matter to him. The Ukrainian centuries long struggle against Russian imperialism, murder, rape, famine and deportation are 'irrelevant' to him. (the exact word he used).
Every single country that was subjugated by Russia after WW2 sought refuge within NATO after the fall of the iron curtain. Their wishes for the same security and safety that we all take for granted are irrelevant to Skull and his ilk. In their eyes Russian imperialism ambition is all important and takes precedence over the wishes of millions of people who want something better for their lives and the lives of their children.
What is the great crime of Ukraine in Skull's eyes? To be supported by the West in their fight against Russian imperialism.
What a sick ideology you espouse.
The Chief Rabbi of Ukraine buried his son yesterday, who fell defending Ukraine on the frontline.
Another nail in the coffin of one of the biggest Russian lies about why they are waging their attempted genocide in Ukraine.
Not that logic or reason will penetrate through years of Greenwald-Sachs-Blumenthal conditioning and the state of mental derangement it brings about.
(https://stevebiddison.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/curly.jpg)
"I have nothing to do with Russia or Russian film. My parents were born in Ukraine: I'm Ukrainian. I'm not Russian. So, excuse me, but I don't belong here. It's best if I leave."
— Jack Palance at a Hollywood event honoring Russian film (http://www.ukemonde.com/palance/russianfilmfest.html) - Russian Nights 2004
Quote from: theskull1 on September 16, 2024, 01:08:25 PMVery apt Main Street
Hmm, reality v a make it up world comparison.
Take a running jump with your fake unilateral disarmament formula nonsense, even the German Green party, once the champion of unilateral disarmament, have totally disowned that hypocrisy after the latest invasion of Ukraine by the SU/Russia horde, in their latest attempt to inflict full blown genocide against the Ukrainian nation.
I think you need to direct your accusations to the West MainSt. How many people have died since Boris torpedo'd the peace deal?
The US knew donkeys ago that "Nyet Means Nyet". They could not give one fcuk about Ukrainian lives
Neocon Queen Victoria Nuland ADMITS Not Wanting to End Ukraine War Diplomatically
Quote from: theskull1 on September 16, 2024, 09:01:04 PMI think you need to direct your accusations to the West MainSt. How many people have died since Boris torpedo'd the peace deal?
The US knew donkeys ago that "Nyet Means Nyet". They could not give one fcuk about Ukrainian lives
Why would he direct it to the West when it's Russia that invaded Ukraine?
Your post doesn't make sense.
Also the idea that there was a peace deal or that Boris Johnson had the power to torpedo a deal is laughable. Where did you get such a notion?
QuoteWhy would he direct it to the West when it's Russia that invaded Ukraine?
Your post doesn't make sense.
If you're not familiar with the 'NYET MEANS NYET: RUSSIA'S NATO ENLARGEMENT REDLINES' memo from 2008, I suggest you do some research.
They knew right well that these chess moves would result in a new cold war and regional instability. This is all by design. Ukrainian conscripts are nothing but pawns for greedy western elites.
QuoteAlso the idea that there was a peace deal or that Boris Johnson had the power to torpedo a deal is laughable. Where did you get such a notion?
Boris was the one who flew to Ukraine and lets say got the blame for scuppering the Istanbul peace talks, but of course he was merely a conduit .............did you watch that youtube video above discussing it?
Quote from: theskull1 on September 17, 2024, 10:11:19 AMQuoteWhy would he direct it to the West when it's Russia that invaded Ukraine?
Your post doesn't make sense.
If you're not familiar with the 'NYET MEANS NYET: RUSSIA'S NATO ENLARGEMENT REDLINES' memo from 2008, I suggest you do some research.
They knew right well that these chess moves would result in a new cold war and regional instability. This is all by design. Ukrainian conscripts are nothing but pawns for greedy western elites.
QuoteAlso the idea that there was a peace deal or that Boris Johnson had the power to torpedo a deal is laughable. Where did you get such a notion?
Boris was the one who flew to Ukraine and lets say got the blame for scuppering the Istanbul peace talks, but of course he was merely a conduit .............did you watch that youtube video above discussing it?
NATO enlarged because countries that were formerly run by Russian puppet dictatorships during the cold war became democratic, elected representative governments and then applied to join a military alliance so that they could remain free from Russia. Have you an issue with sovereign governments making their own decisions or do they need to run it past the local imperial power?
I started watching your video and was dismayed to see the odious Glenn Greenwald. I'll get round to it all later but from the one minute introduction I see a few clangers. (And I think I'll watch the whole video rather than just Mr. Greenwald's clip to see if there is any missing context)
Errors in introduction:
1. Victoria Nuland 'ran' Ukraine. Eh no she didn't. They have a democratically elected president who runs the country.
2. There was a coup in Ukraine. Again no. There was a grassroots protest due to the president's broken promise and after he was impeached he decided to run to Moscow. He was still president when he ran. He probably didn't want to face jail for his many crimes.
3. Nuland was going to choose who to run Ukraine. I presume Greenwald is refereeing the leaked phone call. That's a call where she was talking about who she thought the Prime Minister should be as part of a deal brokered by Yanukovych himself and the opposition. Nuland is very arrogant but Greenwald is talking nonsense.
So. I'll watch the interview between Nuland and the Russian later but 0/10 for Greenwald so far.
How do you watch this nonsense?
Regards,
Si
Quote from: theskull1 on September 17, 2024, 10:11:19 AMQuoteWhy would he direct it to the West when it's Russia that invaded Ukraine?
Your post doesn't make sense.
If you're not familiar with the 'NYET MEANS NYET: RUSSIA'S NATO ENLARGEMENT REDLINES' memo from 2008, I suggest you do some research.
They knew right well that these chess moves would result in a new cold war and regional instability. This is all by design. Ukrainian conscripts are nothing but pawns for greedy western elites.
QuoteAlso the idea that there was a peace deal or that Boris Johnson had the power to torpedo a deal is laughable. Where did you get such a notion?
Boris was the one who flew to Ukraine and lets say got the blame for scuppering the Istanbul peace talks, but of course he was merely a conduit .............did you watch that youtube video above discussing it?
Complete Kremlin spoof. Russia's redlines are bollix. Every country has a right to choose its own security arrangements. Russia have no right to tell other countries what they can and can't do. Especially given their history. Why do you think Ukraine want NATO membership, with Russia on its doorstep.
[/quote]
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2024, 10:35:40 AMQuote from: theskull1 on September 17, 2024, 10:11:19 AMQuoteWhy would he direct it to the West when it's Russia that invaded Ukraine?
Your post doesn't make sense.
If you're not familiar with the 'NYET MEANS NYET: RUSSIA'S NATO ENLARGEMENT REDLINES' memo from 2008, I suggest you do some research.
They knew right well that these chess moves would result in a new cold war and regional instability. This is all by design. Ukrainian conscripts are nothing but pawns for greedy western elites.
QuoteAlso the idea that there was a peace deal or that Boris Johnson had the power to torpedo a deal is laughable. Where did you get such a notion?
Boris was the one who flew to Ukraine and lets say got the blame for scuppering the Istanbul peace talks, but of course he was merely a conduit .............did you watch that youtube video above discussing it?
Complete Kremlin spoof. Russia's redlines are bollix. Every country has a right to choose its own security arrangements. Russia have no right to tell other countries what they can and can't do. Especially given their history. Why do you think Ukraine want NATO membership, with Russia on its doorstep.
This pro-Russian stance is very odd coming from Irishmen given our own struggle with our near neighbour.
Ukraine's history chimes with Ireland's.
Should Ireland obey British red lines for ever more amen?
If not, why should Ukraine.
Regards,
Si
The full interview is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiS2dg_atfc
So straight away on the Nuland interview, when the interviewer moves onto the topic of the Istanbul negotiations he opens with:
Interviewer: '..speaking of another negotiation process...Istanbul 2022'
Nuland: 'This is another Russian myth..good grief..an urban legend, yeah'
This has not been included in Greenwald's clip of Nuland's 'admission'.
Greenwald keeps pausing to give his narrative to everything in case the viewer's thought process strays. He says Ukrainians representatives said there was a 'tonne of progress'. No they didn't Greenwald.
He then lists a lot of concessions that Ukraine had apparently agreed to meet that would have appeased Russian 'concerns'. In fact nothing had been agreed on.
BTW. Nuland hasn't even said anything yet, it's all just Greenwald at this stage.
The clip is heavily edited.
The interwiewer mentions Bennet the Israeli and Arakhamia thens asks 'Where is the myth, where is the truth?'
Nuland starts her answer with 'Well look only the negotiators know for sure because they were in the room..' and then speaks for about 1:20 mins giving some context.
Greenwald edits all this out.
She then explains that Ukraine asked for advice and the US pointed out to them that the agreement would hamstring Ukraine and leave them defenceless and open to Russian attack in the future.
Greenwald then pauses and gives his narrative to make sure the viewer is on board with his nonsense.
She goes on to explain that there were no similar constraints put on Russia and that the 'agreement' proposals were a trap.
Basically the whole Greenwald video is a nothing burger. Heavily edited. Interrupted every sentence so that Glenn can explain everything to you with more Russian myths and lies.
I knew that before I started but there you go. Another few hours wasted online.
Greenwald is a grifter and anyone who falls for his grift is extremely gullible and needs to learn some critical thinking skills.
Regards,
Si OParlon.
So many people unable to get out of the 'one side good other side bad' mentality :-\
Pro understanding the geopolitical realities is not pro Russian.
I can understand why the US didn't like the USSR defending Cuba when they asked them for assistance. Likewise I can understand why Russia didn't like all the NATO activity in and around their bordering countries in recent years.
List of NATO exercises (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_exercises)
I'm also in agreement in principal with true blue that every country should have the right to choose its own security arrangements. The problem is that many countries governments now serve global elites and not by the will of the people so it's never as clear cut as you would like. NATO wouldn't look like a peace keeping force to Russians when you look at their activity in the last 10 years would it?
And lets not get into how many regime changes have came about through Western involvements in those countries they decide they don't like (because they won't play ball)
Quote from: theskull1 on September 17, 2024, 12:54:34 PMSo many people unable to get out of the 'one side good other side bad' mentality :-\
Pro understanding the geopolitical realities is not pro Russian.
I can understand why the US didn't like the USSR defending Cuba when they asked them for assistance. Likewise I can understand why Russia didn't like all the NATO activity in and around their bordering countries in recent years.
List of NATO exercises (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_exercises)
I'm also in agreement in principal with true blue that every country should have the right to choose its own security arrangements. The problem is that many countries governments now serve global elites and not by the will of the people so it's never as clear cut as you would like. NATO wouldn't look like a peace keeping force to Russians when you look at their activity in the last 10 years would it?
And lets not get into how many regime changes have came about through Western involvements in those countries they decide they don't like (because they won't play ball)
You can't get out of the way of the 'it's always the fault of the west and USA' mentality instilled in you by reading too much Chomsky and listening to the likes of Greenwald.
You're mistaking believing Russian propaganda for 'nuance'.
NATO can't invade and could never invade Russia because they have nuclear weapons. They can't and they won't. It's that simple.
Russia can't touch NATO members. (At least I used to think so but with the cowardice shown by the US and Germany I'm not so sure anymore. Poland and the Baltics definitely have doubts too).
NATO membership limits Russian imperialism. (Putin will probably test this theory at some point)
Everything else from you is just hot air.
Regards,
Si OParlon.
Can you point to me how that short interview with Nuland is 'proof' that Boris Johnson torpedoed a peace deal?
It's not even a leap in logic, it's complete fantasy.
Regards,
Si.
QuoteCan you point to me how that short interview with Nuland is 'proof' that Boris Johnson torpedoed a peace deal?
You mean like the Weapons of Mass Destruction proof or the Widgery Tribunal proof? I'm sorry I can't .... you win
Viktor Yanukovych was a great fella, democratically elected until he started progressing trade deals with Russia
Quote from: theskull1 on September 17, 2024, 02:05:03 PMQuoteCan you point to me how that short interview with Nuland is 'proof' that Boris Johnson torpedoed a peace deal?
You mean like the Weapons of Mass Destruction proof or the Widgery Tribunal proof? I'm sorry I can't .... you win
You've got nothing.
I will win every time because there is nothing.
You repeat claims coming from the Kremlin, disseminated by the usual sources.
When challenged you can't substantiate or back up a single claim.
Then wait a week or two, and hey presto, off you go again, like a little wind up toy, triggered by the same old repackaged nonsense.
You've got nothing but hot air.
Regards,
Simon OP.
Quote from: johnnycool on September 17, 2024, 02:25:07 PMViktor Yanukovych was a great fella, democratically elected until he started progressing trade deals with Russia
Yeah some Ukrainians definitely thought he was a great fella, falling for his promise of closer ties with the EU. And as it happens his vote in 2010 was strongest in the east of Ukraine and in Crimea.
So here we have a man, running for election on a ticket promising closer ties with the EU, a man who negotiated the Ukraine EU Association agreement, presented it before the Ukrainian parliament who ratified it, went to Vilnius to sign it, then promptly declared he won't sign it and will instead open dialogue and talks with Moscow about closer economic ties. A betrayal of ALL those who voted for him, and yes that means the Ukrainian people of Donbas and Crimea.
That's not even mentioning the billions he embezzled from the country's coffers.
Your hatred of the west and the US skews your thinking, making you think Ukrainians should just lap that shit up.
They didn't and once Yanukovych set the Berkut and Titushky on the protestors his days were numbered.
People hopes and dreams of a better future for themselves and their country, stolen. But for you, just a glib observation on something you have no knowledge about but which chimes with your already determined world view.
Stay in your lane.
Regards,
Si.
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori
Quote from: theskull1 on September 17, 2024, 11:14:15 PMMy friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori
You think Ukrainians are fighting for conquest and glory?
They have been invaded by the revanchist imperial power next door.
Greenwald doesn't stack up.
Sachs doesn't stack up.
Mearsheimer doesn't stack up.
So now you're resorting to reading poetry to people fighting against an attempted genocide of their country.
Go and stand in the ruins of Gaza and read 'Dulce et decorum est' to the Palestinian resistance while you're at it.
Your arrogance is astounding.
Regards,
Si.
Thanks for that Gerard ... I mean Fadder ... sorry I mean Simon
Quote from: theskull1 on September 18, 2024, 12:09:09 PMThanks for that Gerard ... I mean Fadder ... sorry I mean Simon
Another post saying nothing at all.
Now that I've taken apart Greenwald's bullshit about the imaginary peace deal, how long do we have to wait before the next YouTube video?
What will it be, the imaginary coup? The imaginary NATO aggression towards a nuclear armed Russia?
Regards,
Simon OP
Quote from: Simon OParlon on September 17, 2024, 01:04:36 PMQuote from: theskull1 on September 17, 2024, 12:54:34 PMSo many people unable to get out of the 'one side good other side bad' mentality :-\
Pro understanding the geopolitical realities is not pro Russian.
I can understand why the US didn't like the USSR defending Cuba when they asked them for assistance. Likewise I can understand why Russia didn't like all the NATO activity in and around their bordering countries in recent years.
List of NATO exercises (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_exercises)
I'm also in agreement in principal with true blue that every country should have the right to choose its own security arrangements. The problem is that many countries governments now serve global elites and not by the will of the people so it's never as clear cut as you would like. NATO wouldn't look like a peace keeping force to Russians when you look at their activity in the last 10 years would it?
And lets not get into how many regime changes have came about through Western involvements in those countries they decide they don't like (because they won't play ball)
You can't get out of the way of the 'it's always the fault of the west and USA' mentality instilled in you by reading too much Chomsky and listening to the likes of Greenwald.
You're mistaking believing Russian propaganda for 'nuance'.
NATO can't invade and could never invade Russia because they have nuclear weapons. They can't and they won't. It's that simple.
Russia can't touch NATO members. (At least I used to think so but with the cowardice shown by the US and Germany I'm not so sure anymore. Poland and the Baltics definitely have doubts too).
NATO membership limits Russian imperialism. (Putin will probably test this theory at some point)
Everything else from you is just hot air.
Regards,
Si OParlon.
What cowardice from America/Germany? Surely Ukraine would have been wiped out by now but for Western help?
https://www.ft.com/content/615afa3f-0c39-4435-bcc4-b6e5827a904b
Zelenskyy to push Biden for security guarantees to end war Ukrainian leader says backing his 'victory plan' will allow the outgoing US president to cement his legacy Volodymyr Zelenskyy wants to implement his plan 'while all the officials who want the victory of Ukraine are in official positions'
Isobel Koshiw in Kyiv 11 HOURS AGO 376 Print this page Volodymyr Zelenskyy will press Joe Biden for binding security guarantees before the US president leaves office to bolster Ukraine's position and compel Russia to join peace talks. The Ukrainian leader has in recent months stepped up preparations for possible negotiations with Moscow in anticipation of a shift in US policy following November's presidential election.
Zelenskyy ordered an invasion of the Kursk region of Russia in August to gain territory as leverage in future talks and has said he is ready for a peace conference with Moscow's involvement. Speaking to journalists ahead of a US trip next week where he will attend the UN General Assembly and hold talks with Biden, Zelenskyy said he would present a "victory plan" to the US president that he hoped would end the war. Zelenskyy said the plan, which he wants to be implemented by the end of December, would strengthen Ukraine and force Russia to the negotiating table. "The victory plan, this bridge to strengthening Ukraine, can contribute to more productive future diplomatic meetings with Russia," said Zelenskyy on Friday afternoon in Kyiv. He described the initiative as Biden's opportunity to go down in history as the president who secured Ukrainian independence. He emphasised that the plan needed to be implemented before Biden left office in January. "I think this is a historical mission," said Zelenskyy. "Let's do all this today, while all the officials who want the victory of Ukraine are in official positions." Ukraine has lost territory daily to Russia this year and Moscow has shown no sign that it was willing to negotiate. The Ukrainian leader outlined the four points of the "victory plan" but declined to go into detail. The first point, he said, were further security guarantees. Ukraine has recently signed long-term commitments with the US and other western allies but wants harder assurances akin to the mutual defence guarantee that comes with Nato membership.
The second was Ukraine's Kursk operation, which he said was "fulfilling" its task of diverting Russian offensive power. Zelenskyy's third request was for "specific" advanced weapons. He did not elaborate on the type of weapons system he wanted. The fourth was the joint development of Ukraine's economy together with its partners. "Today you help us in the implementation of this plan and in the future Ukraine will save you a lot of your resources," said Zelenskyy. Recommended ExplainerWar in Ukraine Ukraine's battle against Russia in maps: latest updates Zelenskyy does not view the "victory plan" as a replacement for his "peace formula", a 10-point initiative based on the UN Charter that lays out a framework for a lasting settlement. Rather, it will give Ukraine what it needs to get Russia to the negotiating table where the peace formula would be discussed, he said. Zelenskyy again ruled out a Minsk-style peace agreement where the conflict would be frozen, stating that Russia would only invade again. "We need a just and stable peace," said Zelenskyy. Both Brazil and China have put forward alternative peace plans to Ukraine's peace formula. Zelenskyy said these plans lacked detail and worked as "political icebreakers" against the UN Charter. After speaking at the UN on Wednesday in New York, Zelenskyy will travel to Washington to present the plan to Biden and Vice-president Kamala Harris, who is running against Donald Trump in November
Hope all you guys are ready to back up your support of our Governments to fight Russia
https://x.com/narindertweets/status/1839554674669609210?t=sC3JntUIZvqedQTgFUqvtQ&s=19 (https://x.com/narindertweets/status/1839554674669609210?t=sC3JntUIZvqedQTgFUqvtQ&s=19)
Civilians must be ready to fight because Britain's military is too small, a House of Lords committee has warned. It called for the country to adopt "the mindset of a nation under genuine threat".
The British public would be called up to fight in the event of war because the military was too small.
https://www.youtube.com/live/pUmPREU7FW0?si=xZSndBmj903luEF6
Quote from: theskull1 on September 27, 2024, 09:09:28 PMHope all you guys are ready to back up your support of our Governments to fight Russia
https://x.com/narindertweets/status/1839554674669609210?t=sC3JntUIZvqedQTgFUqvtQ&s=19 (https://x.com/narindertweets/status/1839554674669609210?t=sC3JntUIZvqedQTgFUqvtQ&s=19)
Civilians must be ready to fight because Britain's military is too small, a House of Lords committee has warned. It called for the country to adopt "the mindset of a nation under genuine threat".
The British public would be called up to fight in the event of war because the military was too small.
https://www.youtube.com/live/pUmPREU7FW0?si=xZSndBmj903luEF6
So what do you suggest, just let Russia occupy us?
The British were bad, but the Russians would be much worse.
Quote from: armaghniac :o on September 27, 2024, 11:38:49 PMSo what do you suggest, just let Russia occupy us?
The British were bad, but the Russians would be much worse.
What? :o
Occupy what or occupy who? It will be a nuclear wasteland by the stage anyone left can occupy anything.
I suggest our great western leaders first get their tongue's out of Zionism's hole before setting about telling the puppet jewish leader (now dictator at this stage) of Ukraine that he'll also no longer have their military support and encourage peace.
Sadly though these people are puppets. Banks make the wars and they are itching for our sons and daughters to go kill each other for resources. What Israel's doing with complete impunity from the west should be a massive tell of what group has everything under their control. Start questioning what you're looking at
Quote from: theskull1 on September 28, 2024, 06:24:13 AMQuote from: armaghniac :o on September 27, 2024, 11:38:49 PMSo what do you suggest, just let Russia occupy us?
The British were bad, but the Russians would be much worse.
What? :o
Occupy what or occupy who? It will be a nuclear wasteland by the stage anyone left can occupy anything.
I suggest our great western leaders first get their tongue's out of Zionism's hole before setting about telling the puppet jewish leader (now dictator at this stage) of Ukraine that he'll also no longer have their military support and encourage peace.
Sadly though these people are puppets. Banks make the wars and they are itching for our sons and daughters to go kill each other for resources. What Israel's doing with complete impunity from the west should be a massive tell of what group has everything under their control. Start questioning what you're looking at
Ukraine has nothing to do with Israel and Zelensky enjoys the support of his people and his religion has nothing to do it. I think you are one that needs to question what you are looking at.
Zelensky created and produced "The Servant of the People" comedy TV show which made him a house hold name starting in 2015 (a year after the Maidan revolution attended by the then Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland (J) who was a key figure in shaping US policy towards Ukraine. She was involved in diplomatic efforts to mediate the crisis and supported the Ukrainian government's decision to sign the Association Agreement with the EU.). Back to the show ......
Zelenskys production company Kvartal 95 who made that show was HEAVILY funded by Ihor Kolomoyskyi a Ukrainian-born Israeli billionaire businessman, once considered the leading oligarch in Ukraine
"That TV show would become much more involved in Ukraine's actual politics and in 2018, a political party named after the television series was registered, and Zelenskyy was elected president of Ukraine in 2019"
Look up Victoria Nuland and then delve into her husband Robert Kagan ... two complete Zionist hawks who promote American imperialism and hegemonism, particularly in their views on Ukraine and NATO expansion.
Quote from: theskull1 on September 28, 2024, 11:39:14 PMZelensky created and produced "The Servant of the People" comedy TV show which made him a house hold name starting in 2015 (a year after the Maidan revolution attended by the then Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland (J) who was a key figure in shaping US policy towards Ukraine. She was involved in diplomatic efforts to mediate the crisis and supported the Ukrainian government's decision to sign the Association Agreement with the EU.). Back to the show ......
Zelenskys production company Kvartal 95 who made that show was HEAVILY funded by Ihor Kolomoyskyi a Ukrainian-born Israeli billionaire businessman, once considered the leading oligarch in Ukraine
"That TV show would become much more involved in Ukraine's actual politics and in 2018, a political party named after the television series was registered, and Zelenskyy was elected president of Ukraine in 2019"
Look up Victoria Nuland and then delve into her husband Robert Kagan ... two complete Zionist hawks who promote American imperialism and hegemonism, particularly in their views on Ukraine and NATO expansion.
So what? This has nothing to do with American imperialism and everything to do with Russian imperialism.
Never worry
27 years ago people
Joe Biden in 1997 arrogantly rejected Russia's warnings about NATO expansion:
- A bad deal from NATO was the only deal for a weak Russia
- Biden mocked Russia's warning it would have to align with China, and Biden joked Russia could also partner with Iran as the crowd laughed
Joe Biden Hubris 1997 (https://x.com/Glenn_Diesen/status/1848307234574348444?t=-lhEDsu9iSJYtjcYM88eJw&s=19) :D
Quote from: theskull1 on October 22, 2024, 12:24:15 AM27 years ago people
Joe Biden in 1997 arrogantly rejected Russia's warnings about NATO expansion:
- A bad deal from NATO was the only deal for a weak Russia
- Biden mocked Russia's warning it would have to align with China, and Biden joked Russia could also partner with Iran as the crowd laughed
Joe Biden Hubris 1997 (https://x.com/Glenn_Diesen/status/1848307234574348444?t=-lhEDsu9iSJYtjcYM88eJw&s=19) :D
Well that's ok for Putin to invade another country because in 1997, Biden was arrogant ;D
Well that showed them
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2024, 08:53:28 AMQuote from: theskull1 on October 22, 2024, 12:24:15 AM27 years ago people
Joe Biden in 1997 arrogantly rejected Russia's warnings about NATO expansion:
- A bad deal from NATO was the only deal for a weak Russia
- Biden mocked Russia's warning it would have to align with China, and Biden joked Russia could also partner with Iran as the crowd laughed
Joe Biden Hubris 1997 (https://x.com/Glenn_Diesen/status/1848307234574348444?t=-lhEDsu9iSJYtjcYM88eJw&s=19) :D
Well that's ok for Putin to invade another country because in 1997, Biden was arrogant ;D
Well that showed them
I hope Trump does not get elected, since he will be arrogant towards everyone and there will be wars everywhere.
A lecture from University of Chicago Professor John Mearsheimer from 2015
Worthy of a listen
See Russia didn't even try to hide its meddling the Moldovan EU accession referendum. Agents caught in airports with suitcases full of cash for bribes among others
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-slams-unprecedented-interference-by-russia-moldova-referendum-2024-10-21/
Brave German Journalist EXPOSES Ukraine/NATO War Lies.
Put your current beliefs on this conflict to the test by also giving this talk a listen to. There are other perspectives out there worthy of at least hearing.
Quote from: theskull1 on October 23, 2024, 11:59:04 PMBrave German Journalist EXPOSES Ukraine/NATO War Lies.
Put your current beliefs on this conflict to the test by also giving this talk a listen to. There are other perspectives out there worthy of at least hearing.
I will have a listen to Ms Krone-Schmalz and I will give you an appraisal.
As for Meirsheimer, no. His nonsense has been debunked time and time again. Not that it makes a difference to the true believers.
Ask yourself the same question Skull, have you ever put your current beliefs to one side? Questioned anything you see in one of these talks? Have you ever stopped to think, is this true? Have you ever paused the video to fact check something? Look up a document or a reference?
Can you post me a single video from youtube or elsewhere of a talk or lecture that you have listened to that is of the duration of at least 1 hour that is from a pro-Ukrainian point of view?
QuoteAs for Meirsheimer, no. His nonsense has been debunked time and time again. Not that it makes a difference to the true believers.
Do me a favour ... just listen to two minutes starting from 43:39. I think that alone will blow that claim out of the water. Remember this from 2015
QuoteCan you post me a single video from youtube or elsewhere of a talk or lecture that you have listened to that is of the duration of at least 1 hour that is from a pro-Ukrainian point of view?
I trust that you already know how polarized a country Ukraine is, and then there is the corruption (as there is in Russia)? Can you point me to unbiased source that paints a different picture?
Quote from: theskull1 on October 24, 2024, 11:46:05 AMQuoteAs for Meirsheimer, no. His nonsense has been debunked time and time again. Not that it makes a difference to the true believers.
Do me a favour ... just listen to two minutes starting from 43:39. I think that alone will blow that claim out of the water. Remember this from 2015
QuoteCan you post me a single video from youtube or elsewhere of a talk or lecture that you have listened to that is of the duration of at least 1 hour that is from a pro-Ukrainian point of view?
I trust that you already know how polarized a country Ukraine is, and then there is the corruption (as there is in Russia)? Can you point me to unbiased source that paints a different picture?
I might watch your 2 min clip. I doubt there is anything I haven't heard before. I'm currently 10 mins into the other one. I'm only watching it cause I haven't seen her before. She spoke for 10 mins without saying anything much, maybe a bit of whining about poor old Russia (the Russian Empire that is, coloniser, prison of nations).
Can I discern from your waffling about polarisation and corruption and unbiased sources, that you (Question Everyting, park your confirmed beliefs) have never once watched a lecture from a pro-Ukrainian position? Not even one?
Quote from: theskull1 on October 23, 2024, 11:59:04 PMBrave German Journalist EXPOSES Ukraine/NATO War Lies.
Put your current beliefs on this conflict to the test by also giving this talk a listen to. There are other perspectives out there worthy of at least hearing.
First 10 mins..
0-3 mins - waffle.
3-5 mins - 'this all begins with the dissolution of the Soviet Union'.
No it doesn't Ms. Krone-Schmalz. Nations have been struggling for freedom from Russian imperialism for centuries.
5.20 - She mentions Russia's size.
How did Russia get so big? Here is a clue. It is an Empire. Calling Siberia, Russia is like calling Algeria, France. Westerners are blinded by this because there is no sea in between them.
6.33 - Complaining now that all of the crimes of the Soviet Union have been blamed on Russia but not any of the other states.
The USSR was decentralized but Moscow ruled the roost. You can't run from that Ms. Krone-Schmalz. Does she want to blame Ukraine, Lithuania or Kyrgyrstan or one of the others? She didn't say.
06.51 'Stalin is seen as a Russian, not a Georgian'
Everyone knows Stalin was a Georgian.
07-08 mins Whining and blaming the west for the state of Russia under Yeltsin.
8:27 Somehow blaming the west for Yeltsin shelling the Russian parliament.
Starting to see a pattern here. This is something victims of Russia always talk about. How it is never Russia's fault when they come to murder you.
08:38 – 1000 "In this chaos, in these criminal structures, Putin came just in time, a young, healthy, athletic man..."
Vomit inducing Putin love in for a few mins.
Is there actually anything interesting in the rest of this Skull? Did you even watch it yourself? Is this a prank?
Quote from: theskull1 on October 24, 2024, 11:46:05 AMQuoteAs for Meirsheimer, no. His nonsense has been debunked time and time again. Not that it makes a difference to the true believers.
Do me a favour ... just listen to two minutes starting from 43:39. I think that alone will blow that claim out of the water. Remember this from 2015
QuoteCan you post me a single video from youtube or elsewhere of a talk or lecture that you have listened to that is of the duration of at least 1 hour that is from a pro-Ukrainian point of view?
I trust that you already know how polarized a country Ukraine is, and then there is the corruption (as there is in Russia)? Can you point me to unbiased source that paints a different picture?
I watched the two minutes. Nothing there that you haven't already posted. Stop fighting Russia, stay clear of NATO. Struggled to keep watching after the "Putin has thuggish tendencies" bit.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on October 24, 2024, 12:28:02 PMQuote from: theskull1 on October 23, 2024, 11:59:04 PMBrave German Journalist EXPOSES Ukraine/NATO War Lies.
Put your current beliefs on this conflict to the test by also giving this talk a listen to. There are other perspectives out there worthy of at least hearing.
First 10 mins..
0-3 mins - waffle.
3-5 mins - 'this all begins with the dissolution of the Soviet Union'.
No it doesn't Ms. Krone-Schmalz. Nations have been struggling for freedom from Russian imperialism for centuries.
5.20 - She mentions Russia's size.
How did Russia get so big? Here is a clue. It is an Empire. Calling Siberia, Russia is like calling Algeria, France. Westerners are blinded by this because there is no sea in between them.
6.33 - Complaining now that all of the crimes of the Soviet Union have been blamed on Russia but not any of the other states.
The USSR was decentralized but Moscow ruled the roost. You can't run from that Ms. Krone-Schmalz. Does she want to blame Ukraine, Lithuania or Kyrgyrstan or one of the others? She didn't say.
06.51 'Stalin is seen as a Russian, not a Georgian'
Everyone knows Stalin was a Georgian.
07-08 mins Whining and blaming the west for the state of Russia under Yeltsin.
8:27 Somehow blaming the west for Yeltsin shelling the Russian parliament.
Starting to see a pattern here. This is something victims of Russia always talk about. How it is never Russia's fault when they come to murder you.
08:38 – 1000 "In this chaos, in these criminal structures, Putin came just in time, a young, healthy, athletic man..."
Vomit inducing Putin love in for a few mins.
Is there actually anything interesting in the rest of this Skull? Did you even watch it yourself? Is this a prank?
10-20 mins.
------------
09.40 Putin resigned from KGB service on the 2nd day of the 1991 attempted coup. So he says anyway. We believe you Vladimir.
11.31 'Explaining is not the same as justifying' - at least we now know where Skull gets his language for genocide apologia from.
Ms Krone-Schmalz is also trying to excuse her justification with this nonsense. Totally shameless.
NO MENTION OF APARTMENT BOMBINGS IN RUSSIA AND THE SUBSEQUENT WAR WAGED ON ICHKERIA as part of the young, healthy, athletic man's rise to power.
11.10 - 1440 waffle
1440 On to NATO. Mentions dissolution of the Warsaw Pact - the only security alliance to invade itself in the history of mankind. Countries joined NATO willingly, Warsaw Pact, not so much.
15.24 NATO - Merishaimer-esque waffle.
NATO only expanded eastwards because democratically elected sovereign governments, formally under Russian subjugation and occupation, applied to join asap. Very wise if you live in Russia's 'neighbourhood'. No mention of the concerns of these counties from Ms. Krone-Schmalz. For her, for Meirsheimer, for Skull, they don't count.
15.30-40 Round of applause from true believers.
16.20 George Kennan opposed NATO expansion so he must be correct. Everyone else's opinion on the subject must be wrong, including the countries that wanted to join NATO. Russia's opinion on the matter also supersedes everyone else obviously.
17.40 Again she mentions how huge Russia is. Can any of the anti-imperialists on the board explain how it got so big?
17.50 She again appears to think Russia's 'security' supersedes the rights of all it's neighbours.
18.12 We should not forget Russia's 'historically developed fears' - followed by more poor Russia (that's the Russian Empire that is, coloniser, prison of nations).
19.00 Sneaky Poland tried to take advantage of poor Russia at end of WW1. Stole some territory that apparently was the territory that Stalin 'reclaimed' in 1939 when poor Russia was forced into the Nazi-Soviet Pact and started WW2 by invading Poland with their mates, the Nazis.
Forgets to mention the 'unimaginable cruelty' involved in murdering £25k Polish Army officers. When the Nazis accuse you of war crimes you need to have a look in the mirror.
19.21 Mentions the 'unimaginable cruelty' inflicted on poor Russia in 1941 when the Nazis double crossed their ally Russia and invaded the Soviet Union. Forgets it was Belarus and Ukraine that took the brunt of the invasion.
19.40-20.00 Goes far back to Napoleon and the fears of Russia again. No mention of the fears of the genocided people inside the Russian Empire in the 19th Century, e.g. the Circassians.
The whole thing is nothing more than cherry-picked pro-Russian 'poor Russia' waffle so far.
Conclusion so far: Having the hairdo of an owl does not make one wise.
German approach to Russia and Isreal, we were hard on these guys in 1941 so let them have their fun with their neighbours in 2024.
Georgia election: calls for protests as ruling pro-Russia party declared winner https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/27/georgia-election-calls-for-protests-as-ruling-pro-russia-party-declared-winner?CMP=share_btn_url
Many will keep waving the yellow and blue flag as hundreds of thousands fight and die for a US created cause.
Others see it for what it is.
The Ukraine war explained. F++k the US government. (https://x.com/KimDotcom/status/1852480335617122633?t=EBWmwho3y7qkTCV48beXCQ&s=03)
Do you blame American for all the proxy wars or does it take two to tango?
Quote from: theskull1 on November 02, 2024, 06:58:51 AMMany will keep waving the yellow and blue flag as hundreds of thousands fight and die for a US created cause.
Others see it for what it is.
The Ukraine war explained. F++k the US government. (https://x.com/KimDotcom/status/1852480335617122633?t=EBWmwho3y7qkTCV48beXCQ&s=03)
We've seen it all before from you Skull.
Debunk every single thing Jeffrey Sachs says and it wouldn't make a dent on your ideology.
You'll just wait another few weeks and then repost the same drivel from someone else.
And save your crocodile tears - you're fooling no-one.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 02, 2024, 08:05:54 AMDo you blame American for all the proxy wars or does it take two to tango?
I believe anti-imperialist Skull described Ukraine's centuries long struggle against Russian imperialism as 'irrelevant' because it doesn't chime with his anti-western ideology.
Ukraine and Ukrainians don't matter to him.
The full Cambridge Union speech
JEFFREY SACHS
Jeffrey D. Sachs is University Professor and Director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University, where he directed the Earth Institute from 2002 until 2016.
He is also President of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network, Co-Chair of the Council of Engineers for the Energy Transition, Commissioner of the UN Broadband Commission for Development, academician of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences at the Vatican, and Tan Sri Jeffrey Cheah Honorary Distinguished Professor at Sunway University.
He has been Special Advisor to three United Nations Secretaries-General, and currently serves as an SDG Advocate under Secretary General António Guterres.
He spent over twenty years as a professor at Harvard University, where he received his B.A., M.A., and Ph.D. degrees. Sachs has received 42 honorary doctorates, and his recent awards include the 2022 Tang Prize in Sustainable Development, the Legion of Honor by decree of the President of the Republic of France, and the Order of the Cross from the President of Estonia.
His most recent books are The Ages of Globalization: Geography, Technology, and Institutions (2020) and Ethics in Action for Sustainable Development (2022).
Ad nauseam, ad infinitum.
Have you read the Grand Chessboard yet Skull?
Spoiler: It doesn't say what Jeffrey says it says ;)
Question EVERYTHING! *
*unless it agrees with your ideology, in which case question NOTHING.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 02, 2024, 10:21:22 AMThe full Cambridge Union speech
JEFFREY SACHS
Jeffrey D. Sachs is University Professor and Director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University, where he directed the Earth Institute from 2002 until 2016.
He is also President of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network, Co-Chair of the Council of Engineers for the Energy Transition, Commissioner of the UN Broadband Commission for Development, academician of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences at the Vatican, and Tan Sri Jeffrey Cheah Honorary Distinguished Professor at Sunway University.
He has been Special Advisor to three United Nations Secretaries-General, and currently serves as an SDG Advocate under Secretary General António Guterres.
He spent over twenty years as a professor at Harvard University, where he received his B.A., M.A., and Ph.D. degrees. Sachs has received 42 honorary doctorates, and his recent awards include the 2022 Tang Prize in Sustainable Development, the Legion of Honor by decree of the President of the Republic of France, and the Order of the Cross from the President of Estonia.
His most recent books are The Ages of Globalization: Geography, Technology, and Institutions (2020) and Ethics in Action for Sustainable Development (2022).
The usual preamble when presenting Kremlin filth is to apply academic lipstick by the gallon onto the pig, in order to add some gravitas backing up the Kremlin spiel. With all his acclaimed credentials Jeffrey was totally wrong about the effects (Fear mighty Russia!!) of Sweden and Finland joining NATO. Not only that, but Jeffrey is totally blind to the fact that Russia has been the historical blatant imperialist aggressor since 1918 and that Russia has already lost this war.
In the past 12 months Russia has gained a minuscule 0.1% of Ukraine land, and that's with throwing everything including the kitchen sink (but not the looted toilets) at the Ukraine defenders
If Russia's goals for starting this war were about seizing the south and the Donbas, it could have done that. But they wanted Ukraine wiped off the map and were arrogant enough to think they could.
Ukraine, after almost 3 years not only still stands but is inflicting very high casualties to the RU army. Then by Russia's own definition and choice to not go with realistic war aims, they have failed.Russia's losses (inc economical) are too massive and the results so massively short of their war aims for it to wind up being anything but a Strategic Defeat for RU.
Russia has Tactical Victory (destroying some villages+ gaining terrain) but a Strategic Defeat because it failed at just about everything else it was trying to achieve.And on the Ukraine side we have Tactical Defeat because they lost terrain.
Real warfare is not like in Hollywood where the "victory" magically happens due to triumphing in some climactic battle.Ukraine does not have to fight and win some climactic battle to get their territory back. They have to have the will to keep fighting and the allies have to have the will to keep supplying them.
"It is not those who can inflict the most but those who can endure the most who will conquer." Terence Macswiney, Principles of Freedom.
Russia's economy is predicted (https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4931629-a-russian-economic-meltdown-is-coming-next-year/) to go tits up sometime after mid 2025, real inflation is opined (https://www.kyivpost.com/post/40513) to be well over 20% interest rates are now 21% (https://www.cbr.ru/eng/press/keypr/), the unsustainable mortgage subsidies have been lifted, leading to a destructive property bubble (https://en.thebell.io/russia-ends-subsidized-mortgages-leaving-a-housing-bubble-and-inequality-behind/).
The booming war economy with 40% of the budget is showing sign of faltering, massive production for war related kit which returns no income as it just gets blown up.
There's panic in the Kremlin war room.
The international Oryz website estimates that Russia has lost 10732 armoured vehicles. This is from satellite photos etc and underestimates the full loses.
New production is less than half the loss rate, so they have to pull increasingly rusty kit out of storage, but the time taken to refurbish this is increasing.
I think Russia has a big push on now, before the US election. This is both to give the impression of the Ukrainian situation being hopeless and to have maximum ground if some sort of talks emerge. They might have the objective of capturing the rest of the Donetsk Oblast. They can't capture Ukraine now, they will go to a certain point, get some sort of stalemate and then try and rebuild their capacity.
The West just needs not to lose interest and keep helping, the US has a load of ancient kit from the Gulf War which will be scrapped anyway and 10% of Western military production would stymie Putin.
If tr**p cuts assistance to Ukraine are we possibly looking at another 8m refugees as Russia will likely overrun more of East Ukraine?
Quote from: Rossfan on November 07, 2024, 10:45:04 AMIf tr**p cuts assistance to Ukraine are we possibly looking at another 8m refugees as Russia will likely overrun more of East Ukraine?
More likely to use the threat of cutting assistance to force Ukraine into some sort of agreement. Anything that freezes the conflict on current lines is pretty much just a victory for Russia. Security guarantees for Ukraine as part of any settlement will be just as worthless as they have been in the past, we'll see the whole thing kick off again in 4-5 years.
Biden approves Ukraine using US long range weapons to attack Russia. Owl fella trying to go out with a bang...
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2024, 04:48:19 PMBiden approves Ukraine using US long range weapons to attack Russia. Owl fella trying to go out with a bang...
For use within the Kursk region only apparently. Biden still a coward just like that p***k Scholz.
Guy on the radio today saying that if Russia continues it will win the war.
Making inroads into Ukrainian territory at the minute, driving them back won't be done with letting off these rockets
Settlement and lost land looks like the best bet for them. So many lives lost
And then ......Moldova, Georgia, Azerbaijan,....the various Stans...
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2024, 04:48:19 PMBiden approves Ukraine using US long range weapons to attack Russia. Owl fella trying to go out with a bang...
More looking to put the 2 fingers up to Trump to see if he will do a 360 in 2 months time when he takes over.
Quote from: LC on November 18, 2024, 06:05:16 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2024, 04:48:19 PMBiden approves Ukraine using US long range weapons to attack Russia. Owl fella trying to go out with a bang...
More looking to put the 2 fingers up to Trump to see if he will do a 360 in 2 months time when he takes over.
Of course he will. And then Trump can claim credit for de-escalation.
Trump will take credit if snows on Xmas day, he's a genius ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 05:38:21 PMGuy on the radio today saying that if Russia continues it will win the war.
Making inroads into Ukrainian territory at the minute, driving them back won't be done with letting off these rockets
"If" Russia continues, but having 1500 casualties per day and losing 50 armoured vehicles means continuing is a bit of a challenge. Even at the present accelerated pace Russia will not occupy all of Ukraine until 2050.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2024, 07:14:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 05:38:21 PMGuy on the radio today saying that if Russia continues it will win the war.
Making inroads into Ukrainian territory at the minute, driving them back won't be done with letting off these rockets
"If" Russia continues, but having 1500 casualties per day and losing 50 armoured vehicles means continuing is a bit of a challenge. Even at the present accelerated pace Russia will not occupy all of Ukraine until 2050.
This was from someone who's better placed than you or I
Last week it was announced that North Korea had delivered long rang missile to Russia for use in the Kursk area. This week Biden announced the delivery of long range missiles for use in the Kursk area. Germany has also delivered 4000 drones.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 07:19:31 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2024, 07:14:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 05:38:21 PMGuy on the radio today saying that if Russia continues it will win the war.
Making inroads into Ukrainian territory at the minute, driving them back won't be done with letting off these rockets
"If" Russia continues, but having 1500 casualties per day and losing 50 armoured vehicles means continuing is a bit of a challenge. Even at the present accelerated pace Russia will not occupy all of Ukraine until 2050.
This was from someone who's better placed than you or I
You'll get lots of conflicting opinions on the situation at the various fronts, some a lot more pessimistic than others.
Who was the speaker out of interest?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 18, 2024, 08:44:03 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 07:19:31 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2024, 07:14:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 05:38:21 PMGuy on the radio today saying that if Russia continues it will win the war.
Making inroads into Ukrainian territory at the minute, driving them back won't be done with letting off these rockets
"If" Russia continues, but having 1500 casualties per day and losing 50 armoured vehicles means continuing is a bit of a challenge. Even at the present accelerated pace Russia will not occupy all of Ukraine until 2050.
This was from someone who's better placed than you or I
You'll get lots of conflicting opinions on the situation at the various fronts, some a lot more pessimistic than others.
Who was the speaker out of interest?
He was a British ambassador to Russia
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 08:50:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 18, 2024, 08:44:03 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 07:19:31 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2024, 07:14:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 05:38:21 PMGuy on the radio today saying that if Russia continues it will win the war.
Making inroads into Ukrainian territory at the minute, driving them back won't be done with letting off these rockets
"If" Russia continues, but having 1500 casualties per day and losing 50 armoured vehicles means continuing is a bit of a challenge. Even at the present accelerated pace Russia will not occupy all of Ukraine until 2050.
This was from someone who's better placed than you or I
You'll get lots of conflicting opinions on the situation at the various fronts, some a lot more pessimistic than others.
Who was the speaker out of interest?
He was a British ambassador to Russia
Yeah I heard an interview with him on Times radio. Very downbeat on Ukraine's prospects. Is he right? Maybe. No one knows for sure, including him.
All sorts of conflicting opinions from experts on that Radio show. Former Ambassadors, diplomats, ex military etc.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 18, 2024, 09:00:09 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 08:50:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 18, 2024, 08:44:03 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 07:19:31 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2024, 07:14:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 05:38:21 PMGuy on the radio today saying that if Russia continues it will win the war.
Making inroads into Ukrainian territory at the minute, driving them back won't be done with letting off these rockets
"If" Russia continues, but having 1500 casualties per day and losing 50 armoured vehicles means continuing is a bit of a challenge. Even at the present accelerated pace Russia will not occupy all of Ukraine until 2050.
This was from someone who's better placed than you or I
You'll get lots of conflicting opinions on the situation at the various fronts, some a lot more pessimistic than others.
Who was the speaker out of interest?
He was a British ambassador to Russia
Yeah I heard an interview with him on Times radio. Very downbeat on Ukraine's prospects. Is he right? Maybe. No one knows for sure, including him.
All sorts of conflicting opinions from experts on that Radio show. Former Ambassadors, diplomats, ex military etc.
That's true, plenty of different stories, but I'd say they'd have a better inside knowledge, contacts and more up to date on the state of affairs than the average Joe on here.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 09:04:22 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 18, 2024, 09:00:09 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 08:50:50 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 18, 2024, 08:44:03 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 07:19:31 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2024, 07:14:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2024, 05:38:21 PMGuy on the radio today saying that if Russia continues it will win the war.
Making inroads into Ukrainian territory at the minute, driving them back won't be done with letting off these rockets
"If" Russia continues, but having 1500 casualties per day and losing 50 armoured vehicles means continuing is a bit of a challenge. Even at the present accelerated pace Russia will not occupy all of Ukraine until 2050.
This was from someone who's better placed than you or I
You'll get lots of conflicting opinions on the situation at the various fronts, some a lot more pessimistic than others.
Who was the speaker out of interest?
He was a British ambassador to Russia
Yeah I heard an interview with him on Times radio. Very downbeat on Ukraine's prospects. Is he right? Maybe. No one knows for sure, including him.
All sorts of conflicting opinions from experts on that Radio show. Former Ambassadors, diplomats, ex military etc.
That's true, plenty of different stories, but I'd say they'd have a better inside knowledge, contacts and more up to date on the state of affairs than the average Joe on here.
Plenty of experts offering up a similar opinion as Armaghniac about Russia's unsustainable attrition rate.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 18, 2024, 09:20:36 PMPlenty of experts offering up a similar opinion as Armaghniac about Russia's unsustainable attrition rate.
Indeed, and they are getting paid for it whereas you get it for free.
Russia reckons they have a bigger population and Putin does not care about losses, so send in the meat waves. But this approach also loses vehicles, artillery etc and they are beginning to run out.
I think that Russia has made a push to maximise their position by January and then have some sort of ceasefire deal which reduces sanctions so they can recharge to for the next push. One small fly in the ointment is Ukraine occupying part of Kursk, Putin might not like a ceasefire deal which leaves them in long control of part of Russia. The Russians made a big push in Kursk, using some new kit, but they hardly reached the Ukrainian lines, mostly coming a cropper in minefields.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2024, 09:30:38 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 18, 2024, 09:20:36 PMPlenty of experts offering up a similar opinion as Armaghniac about Russia's unsustainable attrition rate.
Indeed, and they are getting paid for it whereas you get it for free.
Russia reckons they have a bigger population and Putin does not care about losses, so send in the meat waves. But this approach also loses vehicles, artillery etc and they are beginning to run out.
I think that Russia has made a push to maximise their position by January and then have some sort of ceasefire deal which reduces sanctions so they can recharge to for the next push. One small fly in the ointment is Ukraine occupying part of Kursk, Putin might not like a ceasefire deal which leaves them in long control of part of Russia. The Russians made a big push in Kursk, using some new kit, but they hardly reached the Ukrainian lines, mostly coming a cropper in minefields.
And now Ukraine have also been granted limited use of longer range weapons in Kursk.
What beats me, is why even make a announcement, deploy them and the truth of using them, will come out in the long grass. Why even give Russia a heads up.The propaganda war sometimes overlooks the need for secrecy.
Biden will be letting Ukraine fill their boots before Putin's mate takes over in January.
From one of the VERY VERY few members of Congress who doesn't shill for AIPAC
By authorizing long range missiles to strike inside Russia, Biden is committing an unconstitutional Act of War that endangers the lives of all U.S. citizens. This is an impeachable offense, but the reality is he's an emasculated puppet of a deep state (https://x.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1858517552646750436)
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 18, 2024, 11:29:11 PMWhat beats me, is why even make a announcement, deploy them and the truth of using them, will come out in the long grass. Why even give Russia a heads up.The propaganda war sometimes overlooks the need for secrecy.
If Russia has to move its resources further back then that is an outcome in itself.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 19, 2024, 12:46:55 AMFrom one of the VERY VERY few members of Congress who doesn't shill for AIPAC
By authorizing long range missiles to strike inside Russia, Biden is committing an unconstitutional Act of War that endangers the lives of all U.S. citizens. This is an impeachable offense, but the reality is he's an emasculated puppet of a deep state (https://x.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1858517552646750436)
Dead simple, pull your troops out of Ukraine and and go back to your own country. Its like supporting the occupied north..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2024, 08:58:51 AMDead simple, pull your troops out of Ukraine and and go back to your own country. Its like supporting the occupied north..
Game theory not your strong point MR?
We're at the brink of WWIII and the UK is within range
PUTIN EXPLAINS NEW NUCLEAR DOCTRINE (https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1858801952454295998)
Quote from: theskull1 on November 19, 2024, 10:00:07 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2024, 08:58:51 AMDead simple, pull your troops out of Ukraine and and go back to your own country. Its like supporting the occupied north..
Game theory not your strong point MR?
We're at the brink of WWIII and the UK is within range
PUTIN EXPLAINS NEW NUCLEAR DOCTRINE (https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1858801952454295998)
Given the billions of £s of Russian money currently in London, do you think that's ever going to happen?
Someone explain to me the value of 'money' after a nuclear conflict just I can understand?
Quote from: theskull1 on November 19, 2024, 10:37:58 AMSomeone explain to me the value of 'money' after a nuclear conflict just I can understand?
You're completely missing the point. Why would a group of the richest men on the planet (criminal mafia state Russian Oligarchs) start a nuclear conflict that would turn their billions into dust. They won't.
I would also assume they would be inconvenienced by having to fly their wives, mistrisses, girlfriends and children home from their opulent lives in the west as well.
Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate and the rest of the pro-russian online grifters has Skull scared out of his wits.
If Ukraine gets Javelins there will be WW3
If Ukraine gets HIMARS there will be WW3
If Ukraine gets Leopard tanks there will be WW3
If Ukraine gets F-16s there will be WW3
If Ukraine gets ATACMS there will be WW3
If Ukraine...can anyone finish the sentence?
The fact is..Russia invaded Ukraine, has been murdering it's civilians, blowing up infrastructure to try to freeze them into submission, and all the rest for over 3 years now, with Russian bombs and Iranian drones, now deploying NK troops.
The idea of not allowing Ukraine to strike back into Russian territory is insane.
Putin and his online army have you eating out of their hands Skull. Totally brainwashed.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 19, 2024, 12:46:55 AMFrom one of the VERY VERY few members of Congress who doesn't shill for AIPAC
By authorizing long range missiles to strike inside Russia, Biden is committing an unconstitutional Act of War that endangers the lives of all U.S. citizens. This is an impeachable offense, but the reality is he's an emasculated puppet of a deep state (https://x.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1858517552646750436)
He just shills for Putin instead though doesn't he.
There alot of Americans have zero concept of Europe and the threat of Russia under Putin poses. Just another Dictator trying to impose his will on the world. Only mistake Biden done was not supplying these, years ago for Defensive purposes and keep it under the radar. Ukraine are engaged in counter strikes. None of this would have arisen if Russia didn't invade Ukraine in the first place.
Some neocons knocking about here.
Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off
Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 12:46:12 AMSome neocons knocking about here.
Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off
Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.
If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.
And you want more of the same.
Ahh the old Neville Chamberlain dig
War War War War
Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 07:33:12 AMAhh the old Neville Chamberlain dig
War War War War
There's already War War War War, thanks to Barack Obama and Angela Merkel and Putin Arselickers like your heroes Mearsheimer and Sachs (and let's not forget that crazy Owl woman, you really embarrassed yourself there).
The yanks have left it very left to give Ukraine proper backing.
They probably thought it would be a 3 day war, just like the Russians did.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 20, 2024, 05:46:01 AMQuote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 12:46:12 AMSome neocons knocking about here.
Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off
Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.
If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.
And you want more of the same.
Ukraine ceased being a democracy a decade ago.
Look into the politics around Viktor Yanukovych and his removal because he had a pro Russia stance and his successors actions in the regions currently at war and then talk about democracy.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 01:59:42 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 20, 2024, 05:46:01 AMQuote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 12:46:12 AMSome neocons knocking about here.
Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off
Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.
If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.
And you want more of the same.
Ukraine ceased being a democracy a decade ago.
Look into the politics around Viktor Yanukovych and his removal because he had a pro Russia stance and his successors actions in the regions currently at war and then talk about democracy.
Should it be invaded by Russia though?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2024, 02:02:36 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 01:59:42 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 20, 2024, 05:46:01 AMQuote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 12:46:12 AMSome neocons knocking about here.
Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off
Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.
If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.
And you want more of the same.
Ukraine ceased being a democracy a decade ago.
Look into the politics around Viktor Yanukovych and his removal because he had a pro Russia stance and his successors actions in the regions currently at war and then talk about democracy.
Should it be invaded by Russia though?
Certainly not, but Putin didn't act in a vacuum.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 01:59:42 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 20, 2024, 05:46:01 AMQuote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 12:46:12 AMSome neocons knocking about here.
Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off
Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.
If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.
And you want more of the same.
Ukraine ceased being a democracy a decade ago.
Look into the politics around Viktor Yanukovych and his removal because he had a pro Russia stance and his successors actions in the regions currently at war and then talk about democracy.
Viktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
Can we also hold onto the truth that America (whoever controls them) has on many many occasions destabilized countries it couldn't control.
Iran
Iraq
Syria
Libya
Egypt
Quote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 02:23:29 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 01:59:42 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 20, 2024, 05:46:01 AMQuote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 12:46:12 AMSome neocons knocking about here.
Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off
Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.
If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.
And you want more of the same.
Ukraine ceased being a democracy a decade ago.
Look into the politics around Viktor Yanukovych and his removal because he had a pro Russia stance and his successors actions in the regions currently at war and then talk about democracy.
Viktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.
You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 02:21:50 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2024, 02:02:36 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 01:59:42 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 20, 2024, 05:46:01 AMQuote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 12:46:12 AMSome neocons knocking about here.
Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off
Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.
If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.
And you want more of the same.
Ukraine ceased being a democracy a decade ago.
Look into the politics around Viktor Yanukovych and his removal because he had a pro Russia stance and his successors actions in the regions currently at war and then talk about democracy.
Should it be invaded by Russia though?
Certainly not, but Putin didn't act in a vacuum.
That vacuum though should be at the cost of lives
NI was created in such circumstances but hey ho
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 02:36:14 PMQuote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 02:23:29 PMViktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.
You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.
He ran on a policy of joining the EU and then reneged on that when Putin pulled him back into line.
The US and EU did not get rid of him, the parliament of Ukraine did. The US and EU properly supported the parliament of Ukraine against someone being manipulated by Putin, do you think that they should not have?
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 02:51:44 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 02:36:14 PMQuote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 02:23:29 PMViktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.
You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.
He ran on a policy of joining the EU and then reneged on that when Putin pulled him back into line.
The US and EU did not get rid of him, the parliament of Ukraine did. The US and EU properly supported the parliament of Ukraine against someone being manipulated by Putin, do you think that they should not have?
Of course they did and nothing to do with their own vested interests.
I've also got a bridge to sell you.
When the big "super powers" have a vested interest in you, be that the US, Russia or whoever democracy is easily manipulated, just as Bolivia and several other Latin American states with oil and Lithium.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 03:08:22 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 02:51:44 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 02:36:14 PMQuote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 02:23:29 PMViktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.
You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.
He ran on a policy of joining the EU and then reneged on that when Putin pulled him back into line.
The US and EU did not get rid of him, the parliament of Ukraine did. The US and EU properly supported the parliament of Ukraine against someone being manipulated by Putin, do you think that they should not have?
Of course they did and nothing to do with their own vested interests.
I've also got a bridge to sell you.
When the big "super powers" have a vested interest in you, be that the US, Russia or whoever democracy is easily manipulated, just as Bolivia and several other Latin American states with oil and Lithium.
The EU wishes to encourage countries in Europe to join, if their people wish to do so. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Lithium or Bolivia.
You seem to think that the EU should repudiate Ukraine because of Putin, it is a bit like saying that you should not associate with a woman because her wife-beating husband does not like it. A shocking point of view.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 03:24:05 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 03:08:22 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 02:51:44 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 02:36:14 PMQuote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 02:23:29 PMViktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.
You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.
He ran on a policy of joining the EU and then reneged on that when Putin pulled him back into line.
The US and EU did not get rid of him, the parliament of Ukraine did. The US and EU properly supported the parliament of Ukraine against someone being manipulated by Putin, do you think that they should not have?
Of course they did and nothing to do with their own vested interests.
I've also got a bridge to sell you.
When the big "super powers" have a vested interest in you, be that the US, Russia or whoever democracy is easily manipulated, just as Bolivia and several other Latin American states with oil and Lithium.
The EU wishes to encourage countries in Europe to join, if their people wish to do so. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Lithium or Bolivia.
You seem to think that the EU should repudiate Ukraine because of Putin, it is a bit like saying that you should not associate with a woman because her wife-beating husband does not like it. A shocking point of view.
The will of the Ukrainian people has SFA to do with the current war in their country.
It's a power play by the Russians and the US and NATO and they're caught in the middle.
This will lead to a much larger war and I hope you're so keen to defend democracy that you are prepared to send your wee Johnny off to fight and die for it as I sure as fúck won't.
UK missiles are already landing in Russia so expect an escalation.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 02:29:52 PMCan we also hold onto the truth that America (whoever controls them) has on many many occasions destabilized countries it couldn't control.
Iran
Iraq
Syria
Libya
Egypt
The USA has foolishly tried to meddle in these countries, but in which one of those countries did they try to ethnic cleanse the population and claim it as American territory?
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 03:44:04 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 03:24:05 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 03:08:22 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 02:51:44 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 02:36:14 PMQuote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 02:23:29 PMViktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.
You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.
He ran on a policy of joining the EU and then reneged on that when Putin pulled him back into line.
The US and EU did not get rid of him, the parliament of Ukraine did. The US and EU properly supported the parliament of Ukraine against someone being manipulated by Putin, do you think that they should not have?
Of course they did and nothing to do with their own vested interests.
I've also got a bridge to sell you.
When the big "super powers" have a vested interest in you, be that the US, Russia or whoever democracy is easily manipulated, just as Bolivia and several other Latin American states with oil and Lithium.
The EU wishes to encourage countries in Europe to join, if their people wish to do so. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Lithium or Bolivia.
You seem to think that the EU should repudiate Ukraine because of Putin, it is a bit like saying that you should not associate with a woman because her wife-beating husband does not like it. A shocking point of view.
The will of the Ukrainian people has SFA to do with the current war in their country.
It's a power play by the Russians and the US and NATO and they're caught in the middle.
This will lead to a much larger war and I hope you're so keen to defend democracy that you are prepared to send your wee Johnny off to fight and die for it as I sure as fúck won't.
UK missiles are already landing in Russia so expect an escalation.
Oh, we'd better keep conceding to Putin, or he will escalate. That's going well so far...
Quote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 03:47:17 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 03:44:04 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 03:24:05 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 03:08:22 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 02:51:44 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 02:36:14 PMQuote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 02:23:29 PMViktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.
You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.
He ran on a policy of joining the EU and then reneged on that when Putin pulled him back into line.
The US and EU did not get rid of him, the parliament of Ukraine did. The US and EU properly supported the parliament of Ukraine against someone being manipulated by Putin, do you think that they should not have?
Of course they did and nothing to do with their own vested interests.
I've also got a bridge to sell you.
When the big "super powers" have a vested interest in you, be that the US, Russia or whoever democracy is easily manipulated, just as Bolivia and several other Latin American states with oil and Lithium.
The EU wishes to encourage countries in Europe to join, if their people wish to do so. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Lithium or Bolivia.
You seem to think that the EU should repudiate Ukraine because of Putin, it is a bit like saying that you should not associate with a woman because her wife-beating husband does not like it. A shocking point of view.
The will of the Ukrainian people has SFA to do with the current war in their country.
It's a power play by the Russians and the US and NATO and they're caught in the middle.
This will lead to a much larger war and I hope you're so keen to defend democracy that you are prepared to send your wee Johnny off to fight and die for it as I sure as fúck won't.
UK missiles are already landing in Russia so expect an escalation.
Oh, we'd better keep conceding to Putin, or he will escalate. That's going well so far...
Who's we?
Is this the very same "we" who don't give a flying fúck about the "escalations" in Occupied Palestine?
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 03:44:04 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 03:24:05 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 03:08:22 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 02:51:44 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 02:36:14 PMQuote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 02:23:29 PMViktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.
You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.
He ran on a policy of joining the EU and then reneged on that when Putin pulled him back into line.
The US and EU did not get rid of him, the parliament of Ukraine did. The US and EU properly supported the parliament of Ukraine against someone being manipulated by Putin, do you think that they should not have?
Of course they did and nothing to do with their own vested interests.
I've also got a bridge to sell you.
When the big "super powers" have a vested interest in you, be that the US, Russia or whoever democracy is easily manipulated, just as Bolivia and several other Latin American states with oil and Lithium.
The EU wishes to encourage countries in Europe to join, if their people wish to do so. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Lithium or Bolivia.
You seem to think that the EU should repudiate Ukraine because of Putin, it is a bit like saying that you should not associate with a woman because her wife-beating husband does not like it. A shocking point of view.
The will of the Ukrainian people has SFA to do with the current war in their country.
It's a power play by the Russians and the US and NATO and they're caught in the middle.
This will lead to a much larger war and I hope you're so keen to defend democracy that you are prepared to send your wee Johnny off to fight and die for it as I sure as fúck won't.
UK missiles are already landing in Russia so expect an escalation.
Stop posting nonsense. The Ukrainian people do not want be ruled by Russia. They have asked NATO to help them.
This power play falsehood is a bit like during Brexit when the Irish government wishing to prevent disruption of trade on this island was characterised as puppets of Brussels, when in fact it was Brussels doing what the Irish government wanted them to do. The Irish people had no interest in punishing Britain or following some Brussels agenda, they simply wanted to be able buy their goods where they wished.
Likewise, the Ukrainian people just want to rule their own country, and they do not deserve to have people wanting them occupied by Russia, they especially do not deserve hypocrisy on the part of Irish people who object to Britain occupying us but want to see Russia occupy Ukraine.
Say that with a Jim Alister accent
'The Ukrainian people' as if it's one cohesive ethnic group ;D
You do know its pretty much split down the middle on its eastern/western divide?
Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 05:56:47 PMSay that with a Jim Alister accent
'The Ukrainian people' as if it's one cohesive ethnic group ;D
You do know its pretty much split down the middle on its eastern/western divide?
Of course people are not all the same, but the independence of country should be decided by a majority in that country.
Some of you people would put Jim Allister to shame.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 06:50:25 PMQuote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 05:56:47 PMSay that with a Jim Alister accent
'The Ukrainian people' as if it's one cohesive ethnic group ;D
You do know its pretty much split down the middle on its eastern/western divide?
Of course people are not all the same, but the independence of country should be decided by a majority in that country.
Some of you people would put Jim Allister to shame.
And when was the last time the country had a vote on this?
Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 05:56:47 PMSay that with a Jim Alister accent
'The Ukrainian people' as if it's one cohesive ethnic group ;D
You do know its pretty much split down the middle on its eastern/western divide?
Split how? Are you making the presumption that someone who speaks Russian would vote to be part of Russia?
1 Split ethnically.
2 No I wasn't but on reflection given the anti all things Russian from the post maidan government, I think the eastern areas would for sure move.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 07:21:34 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 06:50:25 PMQuote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 05:56:47 PMSay that with a Jim Alister accent
'The Ukrainian people' as if it's one cohesive ethnic group ;D
You do know its pretty much split down the middle on its eastern/western divide?
Of course people are not all the same, but the independence of country should be decided by a majority in that country.
Some of you people would put Jim Allister to shame.
And when was the last time the country had a vote on this?
In 1991 the Donbas voted 83% to be part of independent Ukraine. Russia could propose an internationally supervised referendum if they are so certain of the affections of the people, but oddly enough they do not.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 01:59:42 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 20, 2024, 05:46:01 AMQuote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 12:46:12 AMSome neocons knocking about here.
Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off
Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.
If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.
And you want more of the same.
Ukraine ceased being a democracy a decade ago.
Look into the politics around Viktor Yanukovych and his removal because he had a pro Russia stance and his successors actions in the regions currently at war and then talk about democracy.
Ukraine is a fully functioning democracy.
Victor Yanukovych REMOVED HIMSELF after being impeached by the Ukrainian parliament.
This is the guy who campaigned for election on a pro-EU ticket.
Negotiated an association agreement with the EU.
Put the agreement before parliament and had it ratified.
Went to Vilnius to sign the agreement.
Reneged on everything and betrayed the Ukrainian people he was supposed to be representing.
Set the brutal Berkut and Titushki (paid criminal gangs) on protestors.
Stole billions from the Ukrainian exchequer.
Skull steadfastly refuses to acknowledge any of the above. Any comment yourself?
As for his successors - all democratically elected by the people of Ukraine.
And if you want to have a conversation about the goings on in Donetsk and Luhansk after 2014, I would suggest that it is yourself that needs to "look into" the personalities and actions of the merry band of Donbas criminals and their Kremlin handlers. Start with Igor Girkin and Denis Pushilin. You've never heard of them. Use google.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 02:36:14 PMQuote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 02:23:29 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 01:59:42 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 20, 2024, 05:46:01 AMQuote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 12:46:12 AMSome neocons knocking about here.
Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off
Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.
If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.
And you want more of the same.
Ukraine ceased being a democracy a decade ago.
Look into the politics around Viktor Yanukovych and his removal because he had a pro Russia stance and his successors actions in the regions currently at war and then talk about democracy.
Viktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.
You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.
The US and EU did not get rid of Yanukovych. You just say this idiotic stuff and it has no basis in fact or reality. He removed himself and ran back to his master in Moscow after the ultimate betrayal of the people he was supposed to represent. He tried to sell Ukraine back to their centuries old imperial oppressor.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 03:44:04 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 03:24:05 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 03:08:22 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2024, 02:51:44 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2024, 02:36:14 PMQuote from: Don Cockburn on November 20, 2024, 02:23:29 PMViktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.
And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.
You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.
He ran on a policy of joining the EU and then reneged on that when Putin pulled him back into line.
The US and EU did not get rid of him, the parliament of Ukraine did. The US and EU properly supported the parliament of Ukraine against someone being manipulated by Putin, do you think that they should not have?
Of course they did and nothing to do with their own vested interests.
I've also got a bridge to sell you.
When the big "super powers" have a vested interest in you, be that the US, Russia or whoever democracy is easily manipulated, just as Bolivia and several other Latin American states with oil and Lithium.
The EU wishes to encourage countries in Europe to join, if their people wish to do so. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Lithium or Bolivia.
You seem to think that the EU should repudiate Ukraine because of Putin, it is a bit like saying that you should not associate with a woman because her wife-beating husband does not like it. A shocking point of view.
The will of the Ukrainian people has SFA to do with the current war in their country.
It's a power play by the Russians and the US and NATO and they're caught in the middle.
This will lead to a much larger war and I hope you're so keen to defend democracy that you are prepared to send your wee Johnny off to fight and die for it as I sure as fúck won't.
UK missiles are already landing in Russia so expect an escalation.
This is perhaps the most shocking arrogant post of the whole thread. Total denial of the agency of the Ukrainian people. Everyone expected Ukraine to last 3 weeks max against Russia. Yesterday was Day 1000 of their heroic struggle against their centuries old imperial aggressor. You think you can achieve something like that without any will?
All you've got in your argument is non-specific waffle about US, EU, NATO. Heard it all before from Skull.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 05:56:47 PMSay that with a Jim Alister accent
'The Ukrainian people' as if it's one cohesive ethnic group ;D
You do know its pretty much split down the middle on its eastern/western divide?
By this pronouncement you have demonstrated:
1. You know nothing about Ukraine.
2. You have never been to Ukraine.
3. You have never met or spoken to a single Ukrainian from Donetsk, Luhansk, Sumy, Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, Poltava or Kherson.
When you see videos of Ukrainian soldiers on Youtube, x or wherever...what language do you think they are speaking?
You want them to keep fighting and dying for Zelenskys cause ...... shame on you
Get back to the peace talks is what I'm saying rather than edge us towards a world war
Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 09:48:58 PMYou want them to keep fighting and dying for Zelenskys cause .
that would be Zelensky the Russian speaker?
QuoteGet back to the peace talks is what I'm saying rather than edge us towards a world war
Peace would be great, the Russians can say when they are going back to their own country.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 09:48:58 PMYou want them to keep fighting and dying for Zelenskys cause ...... shame on you
Get back to the peace talks is what I'm saying rather than edge us towards a world war
What you're doing and have done since day 1, is place the blame for all of this on the victim, rather than the aggressor Russia. All because you hate the US. 'Zelensky's cause' - ffs you can't help yourself. Zelensky is a rich man and could have just walked out of all this in Feb 2022. Many would have.
How is this 'Zelensky's cause' btw? - explain that comment with receipts.
I don't buy your crocodile tears for the Ukrainian dead either btw, you've done nothing but spread Russian propaganda on this thread and probably elsewhere since day 1. And like I said before, a propagandist is a small cog in the murder machine. Hope you sleep well at night.
One side bad other side good
War War War war
The love you have for Ukranians marching to their deaths knows no bounds.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 10:15:45 PMOne side bad other side good
This we can agree on, the Russians are cùnts.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2024, 10:15:45 PMOne side bad other side good
War War War war
The love you have for Ukranians marching to their deaths knows no bounds.
One side invaded, other side invader.
Every single Ukrainian death (and Russian for that matter) is on Russia and Putin. And their propagandists.
'Zelensky's cause' - going to explain that comment?
https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/russian-rouble-down-by-one-quarter-since-early-august-2024-11-27/
Who's the local commie on the board?
I'm sure many here will be hopeful British and European troops will soon be in Ukraine to defend it's bodrer. Your sons and daughters will thank you for listening to Boris Johnson
Quote from: theskull1 on November 29, 2024, 11:02:06 PMI'm sure many here will be hopeful British and European troops will soon be in Ukraine to defend it's bodrer. Your sons and daughters will thank you for listening to Boris Johnson
Nah, we're actually all just hopeful that one day Russia will stop invading its neighbours, bombing them, deporting them, raping them, kidnapping their children, torturing them, erasing their identities, and so on. Simple enough for you?
p.s. there was no peace deal in 2022. Just another Russian lie you've swallowed, amongst many.
Hopefully your sons and daughters will convince Putin to catch himself on.
Good to know this lad will have the same attitude to Britain occupying us for donkey years, or Israel occupying Gaza, given that's his attitude to Russia.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 30, 2024, 12:35:29 AMHopefully your sons and daughters will convince Putin to catch himself on.
If Putin goes to war with the US or NATO you'll not have to worry about kids going to war.
Strange that you support occupation
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 30, 2024, 12:46:25 AMStrange that you support occupation
Have you memory issues Milltown? You tried this a month ago.
I'll repeat... explaining is not endorsing.
Some in the black north wanted Irish Government assistance at the start of the troubles. Made sense from their pov
Quote from: theskull1 on November 30, 2024, 05:37:02 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 30, 2024, 12:46:25 AMStrange that you support occupation
Have you memory issues Milltown? You tried this a month ago.
I'll repeat... explaining is not endorsing.
Some in the black north wanted Irish Government assistance at the start of the troubles. Made sense from their pov
You only have to watch the mad German owl woman's Putin arselicking speech for about 10 mins to see where Skull got his "Explaining is not endorsing" nonsense from.
The problem he has is that neither he, nor she, actually explain anything, merely repeat Russian lies and propaganda.
And yes by doing this, he is actually attempting to excuse Russia, despite his denials.
Putin is now launching ICBMs against Ukraine.
Americas mates attacking Russias mates in Syria again.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 01, 2024, 08:22:19 AMAmericas mates attacking Russias mates in Syria again.
No one really cares about Syria though..
Won't get much attention
Russia feeling multiple pinches, Economic problems piling up on them, militarily overstretched in Ukraine & Syria, Politically embarrassed at home, in Georgia, Armenia & parts of Africa.
Putin could be on track for a fall down some stairs the way this is going. Will big Donald save his bacon or drive the stake through his heart? Could see him turning on Putin very easily.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 01, 2024, 02:16:35 PMRussia feeling multiple pinches, Economic problems piling up on them, militarily overstretched in Ukraine & Syria, Politically embarrassed at home, in Georgia, Armenia & parts of Africa.
Putin could be on track for a fall down some stairs the way this is going. Will big Donald save his bacon or drive the stake through his heart? Could see him turning on Putin very easily.
It gets worse for Putin. Mick Wallace and Clare Daly fail to get elected!
There's a great informative tweet thread in regards to Syria, what it potentially means to all the big players in the area.
https://x.com/jenanmoussa/status/1863260158396084525?t=U4HuAdzCI8lkFaItLxRCVg&s=19
Quote from: bennydorano on December 01, 2024, 08:40:58 PMThere's a great informative tweet thread in regards to Syria, what it potentially means to all the big players in the area.
https://x.com/jenanmoussa/status/1863260158396084525?t=U4HuAdzCI8lkFaItLxRCVg&s=19
Hard to beat yet another proxy war and proof that not only are the Russians on the ground in Syria but so are the US.
In the meantime innocents will die.
The Israelis must be loving this.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 04, 2024, 11:32:15 AMQuote from: bennydorano on December 01, 2024, 08:40:58 PMThere's a great informative tweet thread in regards to Syria, what it potentially means to all the big players in the area.
https://x.com/jenanmoussa/status/1863260158396084525?t=U4HuAdzCI8lkFaItLxRCVg&s=19
Hard to beat yet another proxy war and proof that not only are the Russians on the ground in Syria but so are the US.
In the meantime innocents will die.
The Israelis must be loving this.
You need proof that Russians and the US are on the ground in Syria?? Where have you been?
Yeah, there are too many 'proxy wars'. Look at Iran's proxy war with Israel and by extension the US, using the hapless Palestinians as cannon fodder. Palestinians aren't fighting a legitimate struggle for freedom, just pawns in a 'proxy war', right?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2024, 12:14:26 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 04, 2024, 11:32:15 AMQuote from: bennydorano on December 01, 2024, 08:40:58 PMThere's a great informative tweet thread in regards to Syria, what it potentially means to all the big players in the area.
https://x.com/jenanmoussa/status/1863260158396084525?t=U4HuAdzCI8lkFaItLxRCVg&s=19
Hard to beat yet another proxy war and proof that not only are the Russians on the ground in Syria but so are the US.
In the meantime innocents will die.
The Israelis must be loving this.
You need proof that Russians and the US are on the ground in Syria?? Where have you been?
Yeah, there are too many 'proxy wars'. Look at Iran's proxy war with Israel and by extension the US, using the hapless Palestinians as cannon fodder. Palestinians aren't fighting a legitimate struggle for freedom, just pawns in a 'proxy war', right?
Palestinians are fighting for their survival right now.. Where have you been the last 40 plus years?
Quote from: johnnycool on December 04, 2024, 01:35:36 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2024, 12:14:26 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 04, 2024, 11:32:15 AMQuote from: bennydorano on December 01, 2024, 08:40:58 PMThere's a great informative tweet thread in regards to Syria, what it potentially means to all the big players in the area.
https://x.com/jenanmoussa/status/1863260158396084525?t=U4HuAdzCI8lkFaItLxRCVg&s=19
Hard to beat yet another proxy war and proof that not only are the Russians on the ground in Syria but so are the US.
In the meantime innocents will die.
The Israelis must be loving this.
You need proof that Russians and the US are on the ground in Syria?? Where have you been?
Yeah, there are too many 'proxy wars'. Look at Iran's proxy war with Israel and by extension the US, using the hapless Palestinians as cannon fodder. Palestinians aren't fighting a legitimate struggle for freedom, just pawns in a 'proxy war', right?
Palestinians are fighting for their survival right now.. Where have you been the last 40 plus years?
Yeah I know all that but they're armed by others such as Iran so that means their struggle is just another 'proxy war', is it not?
Edit: 40 plus years?? That's a big plus
MIKE BENZ: "Every single aspect of Ukrainian society is controlled by US democratic institutions."
"Zelenskyy's first month in office he was given a threat letter by the US state department and 70 state funded NGOs ordering him not to cross the below listed redlines otherwise
https://x.com/AutismCapital/status/1864056634886242526 (https://x.com/AutismCapital/status/1864056634886242526)
Quote from: theskull1 on December 05, 2024, 12:50:27 AMMIKE BENZ: "Every single aspect of Ukrainian society is controlled by US democratic institutions."
"Zelenskyy's first month in office he was given a threat letter by the US state department and 70 state funded NGOs ordering him not to cross the below listed redlines otherwise
https://x.com/AutismCapital/status/1864056634886242526 (https://x.com/AutismCapital/status/1864056634886242526)
Juvenile garbage, only for the most stupid people to assimilate, never mind present as something presentable.
Yes you're right... Completely childish. I should know already the US doesn't do regime changes. They believe in democracy. How foolishly niave of me ::)
So the US, and others made Putin invade (parts they never left) Ukraine. Ah so Putin was forced into it by those pesky yanks
Quote from: Main Street on December 05, 2024, 03:24:27 AMQuote from: theskull1 on December 05, 2024, 12:50:27 AMMIKE BENZ: "Every single aspect of Ukrainian society is controlled by US democratic institutions."
"Zelenskyy's first month in office he was given a threat letter by the US state department and 70 state funded NGOs ordering him not to cross the below listed redlines otherwise
https://x.com/AutismCapital/status/1864056634886242526 (https://x.com/AutismCapital/status/1864056634886242526)
Juvenile garbage, only for the most stupid people to assimilate, never mind present as something presentable.
Alt right conspiracy theorist taking shite from start to finish. This post and Skull in general belong on the new Chaos thread as a case study on why the world is in the state it's in.
Incidentally, after Joe Rogan's recent "f**k you people" in reference to Ukrainians, Wladimir Klitschko very kindly and politely offered to come on his show to present the Ukrainian point of view which you will never hear on Rogan's show.
That's the former heavyweight boxing champion of the world offering to come on Rogan's show. Will Rogan have him on? Will he f**k. He prefers to have characters like Mike Benz on talking shite so he can sit there with that stupid look on his facing going "Whoa Bro, I wish I knew this stuff".
Rogan is heavily promoted by Musk which tells you all you need to know.
Speaking of "red lines" have you come out from under the bed yet Skull? Shouldn't WW3 have started last week or something?
I see the Oreshnik" missile stunt obviously didn't have the desired effect on the west so they've called the ever reliable Tucker Carlson to muscovy to try to frighten the gullible even more.
BBC News - Alleged Russian election-meddling in Romania resurrects dark memories
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7vee5n5lp0o
Presidential election results annulled. Theskull will not be pleased.
Its not just me who tries to 'explain rather than endorse' benny. Here's Richard Sakwa, Professor Emeritus of Politics, University of Kent trying his best to get you people out of the 'one side bad other side good' low IQ mindset. Would do everybody no harm to question their default positions ... why not give it a go
Why People Blame America for the War in Ukraine
Why Russia Never Joined NATO
What the western world doesn't teach about the Cold War, and how we may be headed straight for another one.
^^^^^^^^^
I see this video is now private ................ I assume youtube deemed it misinformation
Didn't realise the Cold War stopped
Russia bad America bad, I don't know too many who think otherwise
Any country who invades a country is wrong, if you can't admit that then you are lost.
You don't realise a lot of things ;)
Quote from: theskull1 on December 06, 2024, 11:04:45 PMYou don't realise a lot of things ;)
That's possibly true.. but if American is at fault here, then invade them.
Hard to argue with that logic :o
Quote from: theskull1 on December 06, 2024, 09:54:14 PMIts not just me who tries to 'explain rather than endorse' benny. Here's Richard Sakwa, Professor Emeritus of Politics, University of Kent trying his best to get you people out of the 'one side bad other side good' low IQ mindset. Would do everybody no harm to question their default positions ... why not give it a go
Why People Blame America for the War in Ukraine
Why Russia Never Joined NATO
What the western world doesn't teach about the Cold War, and how we may be headed straight for another one.
^^^^^^^^^
I see this video is now private ................ I assume youtube deemed it misinformation
We don't need to watch it Skull, it'll be the same NATO nonsense peddled by the mad owl woman and others.
Russia believes NATO to be such a threat that in November 2023 they removed vital air defence systems from Kaliningrad, their tiny Baltic enclave which is surrounded by NATO countries.
Russia believes NATO to be such a threat that when Finland and Sweden joined the alliance, effectively doubling Russia's border with NATO, Russia simply shrugged and proceeded to practically demilitarise the Finnish frontier and send the troops and equipment to their imperial genocidal project in Ukraine.
NATO is not a threat to Russia.
Russia knows NATO is not a threat to them.
Countries inside NATO are (most likely) safe from Russian invasion, Lithuania, Poland etc.
Countries outside NATO are not safe from Russian invasion, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Belarus (if they ever tried to have a revolution to depose their dictator, Russian troops would prevent it and people like Skull would cheer them on).
You have to suspend all logic and reason to believe Russia's NATO propaganda.
Do you know when the NATO invasion of nuclear armed Russia is planned for Skull? Can you let us know?
Russia continues their terrorism and deliberate slaughter of civilians in Ukraine, today striking a hospital in Zoporizhzhia with a ballistic missile. So far 4 confirmed dead and 19 injured including 1 child.
https://x.com/victoriaslog/status/1866582696107053088
Meanwhile in Kherson and elsewhere, Russia has for months been randomly attacking civilians trying to go about their daily lives with drones.
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1866398984614424599
Joe Rogan is going to get cancelled if he keeps putting this stuff up!
The Truth About Ukraine (https://x.com/i/status/1866000108518531146)
Quote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 11:45:05 AMJoe Rogan is going to get cancelled if he keeps putting this stuff up!
The Truth About Ukraine (https://x.com/i/status/1866000108518531146)
Well, the issue with that interview is that it's not the truth about Ukraine, it's bullshit from start to finish. Not that Elon Musk would have any issue with that.
And as I mentioned already, Wladimir Klitschko, politely pointed out to Rogan that he is spreading Russian propaganda and offered to come on his show. Rogan hasn't accepted and probably won't. He is not interested in the truth, just what his braindead audience want to hear.
p.s. you 'freethinkers' all really do swill from the same troughs don't you.
https://www.ft.com/content/1922d0e6-5b63-4507-8a2b-e4fbac68f767
If Russia decided to evacuate its naval presence in Syria, the ships would be likely to be barred by the Turkish government from crossing into the Black Sea via the Bosphorus. In such a case, the nearest Russian base would be Kaliningrad on the Baltic — a long sea journey involving refuelling on a route surrounded by Nato countries.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2024, 12:39:33 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 11:45:05 AMJoe Rogan is going to get cancelled if he keeps putting this stuff up!
The Truth About Ukraine (https://x.com/i/status/1866000108518531146)
Well, the issue with that interview is that it's not the truth about Ukraine, it's bullshit from start to finish. Not that Elon Musk would have any issue with that.
And as I mentioned already, Wladimir Klitschko, politely pointed out to Rogan that he is spreading Russian propaganda and offered to come on his show. Rogan hasn't accepted and probably won't. He is not interested in the truth, just what his braindead audience want to hear.
p.s. you 'freethinkers' all really do swill from the same troughs don't you.
Joe Rogan barely spoke throughout that podcast, but a freethinker like yourself would have known that.
This isn't Russian disinformation, it's a guy explaining the US's role in controlling the narrative in Ukraine for a decade and more, but no doubt he's a Russian stooge, just like all the other stooges who blew the whistle on what the US via the CIA were at in Latin America and the Middle East for decades and decades before all this stuff in Ukraine was happening.
This is standard fare for the CIA and nothing new for them, just the medium has changed.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 02:14:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2024, 12:39:33 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 11:45:05 AMJoe Rogan is going to get cancelled if he keeps putting this stuff up!
The Truth About Ukraine (https://x.com/i/status/1866000108518531146)
Well, the issue with that interview is that it's not the truth about Ukraine, it's bullshit from start to finish. Not that Elon Musk would have any issue with that.
And as I mentioned already, Wladimir Klitschko, politely pointed out to Rogan that he is spreading Russian propaganda and offered to come on his show. Rogan hasn't accepted and probably won't. He is not interested in the truth, just what his braindead audience want to hear.
p.s. you 'freethinkers' all really do swill from the same troughs don't you.
Joe Rogan barely spoke throughout that podcast, but a freethinker like yourself would have known that.
This isn't Russian disinformation, it's a guy explaining the US's role in controlling the narrative in Ukraine for a decade and more, but no doubt he's a Russian stooge, just like all the other stooges who blew the whistle on what the US via the CIA were at in Latin America and the Middle East for decades and decades before all this stuff in Ukraine was happening.
This is standard fare for the CIA and nothing new for them, just the medium has changed.
Bullshit from start to finish from the guy being interviewed. Rogan barely spoke ...lol. Of course he didn't. An informed interviewer would have challenged or pushed back on the nonsense being spouted. Rogan just sits there like a nodding dummy.
'Freethinkers' are always blown away by the credentials of those who spouting nonsense that suits their political ideology. As if it's not possible that they are pursuing an agenda of their own. Benz is a shit talking alt right conspiracy theorist.
Skull already posted an excerpt from that interview. Some 'Red Lines Memo' nonsense - absolute bullshit about some letter from NGOs and think tanks being 'proof' that every aspect of Ukrainian society is controlled by the US. The so-called 'Red Lines Memo' is the equivalent of an open letter to the Irish News...'We the undersigned call on the government to immediately...etc etc etc". That's it and that's all.
Russian propagandists have the easiest job on the planet because their target audience are an open goal. Check nothing, believe everything.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2024, 02:54:52 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 02:14:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2024, 12:39:33 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 11:45:05 AMJoe Rogan is going to get cancelled if he keeps putting this stuff up!
The Truth About Ukraine (https://x.com/i/status/1866000108518531146)
Well, the issue with that interview is that it's not the truth about Ukraine, it's bullshit from start to finish. Not that Elon Musk would have any issue with that.
And as I mentioned already, Wladimir Klitschko, politely pointed out to Rogan that he is spreading Russian propaganda and offered to come on his show. Rogan hasn't accepted and probably won't. He is not interested in the truth, just what his braindead audience want to hear.
p.s. you 'freethinkers' all really do swill from the same troughs don't you.
Joe Rogan barely spoke throughout that podcast, but a freethinker like yourself would have known that.
This isn't Russian disinformation, it's a guy explaining the US's role in controlling the narrative in Ukraine for a decade and more, but no doubt he's a Russian stooge, just like all the other stooges who blew the whistle on what the US via the CIA were at in Latin America and the Middle East for decades and decades before all this stuff in Ukraine was happening.
This is standard fare for the CIA and nothing new for them, just the medium has changed.
Bullshit from start to finish from the guy being interviewed. Rogan barely spoke ...lol. Of course he didn't. An informed interviewer would have challenged or pushed back on the nonsense being spouted. Rogan just sits there like a nodding dummy.
'Freethinkers' are always blown away by the credentials of those who spouting nonsense that suits their political ideology. As if it's not possible that they are pursuing an agenda of their own. Benz is a shit talking alt right conspiracy theorist.
Skull already posted an excerpt from that interview. Some 'Red Lines Memo' nonsense - absolute bullshit about some letter from NGOs and think tanks being 'proof' that every aspect of Ukrainian society is controlled by the US. The so-called 'Red Lines Memo' is the equivalent of an open letter to the Irish News...'We the undersigned call on the government to immediately...etc etc etc". That's it and that's all.
Russian propagandists have the easiest job on the planet because their target audience are an open goal. Check nothing, believe everything.
I'm not saying Russia isn't doing the things you allude to, I'm just saying the US have also being doing these things and have been for years.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 03:39:47 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2024, 02:54:52 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 02:14:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2024, 12:39:33 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 11:45:05 AMJoe Rogan is going to get cancelled if he keeps putting this stuff up!
The Truth About Ukraine (https://x.com/i/status/1866000108518531146)
Well, the issue with that interview is that it's not the truth about Ukraine, it's bullshit from start to finish. Not that Elon Musk would have any issue with that.
And as I mentioned already, Wladimir Klitschko, politely pointed out to Rogan that he is spreading Russian propaganda and offered to come on his show. Rogan hasn't accepted and probably won't. He is not interested in the truth, just what his braindead audience want to hear.
p.s. you 'freethinkers' all really do swill from the same troughs don't you.
Joe Rogan barely spoke throughout that podcast, but a freethinker like yourself would have known that.
This isn't Russian disinformation, it's a guy explaining the US's role in controlling the narrative in Ukraine for a decade and more, but no doubt he's a Russian stooge, just like all the other stooges who blew the whistle on what the US via the CIA were at in Latin America and the Middle East for decades and decades before all this stuff in Ukraine was happening.
This is standard fare for the CIA and nothing new for them, just the medium has changed.
Bullshit from start to finish from the guy being interviewed. Rogan barely spoke ...lol. Of course he didn't. An informed interviewer would have challenged or pushed back on the nonsense being spouted. Rogan just sits there like a nodding dummy.
'Freethinkers' are always blown away by the credentials of those who spouting nonsense that suits their political ideology. As if it's not possible that they are pursuing an agenda of their own. Benz is a shit talking alt right conspiracy theorist.
Skull already posted an excerpt from that interview. Some 'Red Lines Memo' nonsense - absolute bullshit about some letter from NGOs and think tanks being 'proof' that every aspect of Ukrainian society is controlled by the US. The so-called 'Red Lines Memo' is the equivalent of an open letter to the Irish News...'We the undersigned call on the government to immediately...etc etc etc". That's it and that's all.
Russian propagandists have the easiest job on the planet because their target audience are an open goal. Check nothing, believe everything.
I'm not saying Russia isn't doing the things you allude to, I'm just saying the US have also being doing these things and have been for years.
So both Cnuts, everyone knows that
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 11, 2024, 06:30:13 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 03:39:47 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2024, 02:54:52 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 02:14:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 11, 2024, 12:39:33 PMQuote from: johnnycool on December 11, 2024, 11:45:05 AMJoe Rogan is going to get cancelled if he keeps putting this stuff up!
The Truth About Ukraine (https://x.com/i/status/1866000108518531146)
Well, the issue with that interview is that it's not the truth about Ukraine, it's bullshit from start to finish. Not that Elon Musk would have any issue with that.
And as I mentioned already, Wladimir Klitschko, politely pointed out to Rogan that he is spreading Russian propaganda and offered to come on his show. Rogan hasn't accepted and probably won't. He is not interested in the truth, just what his braindead audience want to hear.
p.s. you 'freethinkers' all really do swill from the same troughs don't you.
Joe Rogan barely spoke throughout that podcast, but a freethinker like yourself would have known that.
This isn't Russian disinformation, it's a guy explaining the US's role in controlling the narrative in Ukraine for a decade and more, but no doubt he's a Russian stooge, just like all the other stooges who blew the whistle on what the US via the CIA were at in Latin America and the Middle East for decades and decades before all this stuff in Ukraine was happening.
This is standard fare for the CIA and nothing new for them, just the medium has changed.
Bullshit from start to finish from the guy being interviewed. Rogan barely spoke ...lol. Of course he didn't. An informed interviewer would have challenged or pushed back on the nonsense being spouted. Rogan just sits there like a nodding dummy.
'Freethinkers' are always blown away by the credentials of those who spouting nonsense that suits their political ideology. As if it's not possible that they are pursuing an agenda of their own. Benz is a shit talking alt right conspiracy theorist.
Skull already posted an excerpt from that interview. Some 'Red Lines Memo' nonsense - absolute bullshit about some letter from NGOs and think tanks being 'proof' that every aspect of Ukrainian society is controlled by the US. The so-called 'Red Lines Memo' is the equivalent of an open letter to the Irish News...'We the undersigned call on the government to immediately...etc etc etc". That's it and that's all.
Russian propagandists have the easiest job on the planet because their target audience are an open goal. Check nothing, believe everything.
I'm not saying Russia isn't doing the things you allude to, I'm just saying the US have also being doing these things and have been for years.
So both Cnuts, everyone knows that
The difference is you don't have anyone on this board peddling American lies and propaganda trying to justify their wars. (or 'Explain but not endorse' in idiot conspiracy theory parlance)
Any chance of a brief summary of what's being said. Long time to be listening to a podcast that
Not really talking is more or less Rogan:s entire approach to "interviewing". Unless it's jiu jitsu, MMA or hunting, he's completely unqualified to talk on almost any subject, so he just lets his guests ramble on unfiltered and unchallenged. He's a meathead, nothing more.
https://youtu.be/BKrf7mX_R6M?si=1OK6W-O0Qoq3BUm6
Not long now before our sons and daughters get dragged into these global conflicts. Theres too many people on the planet anyway I suppose.
Nato must switch to a wartime mindset, warns secretary general (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly41x7eg71o)
The head of Nato has said it is time to "shift to a wartime mindset", as he warned the military alliance's members were not spending enough to prepare for the threat of a future conflict with Russia.
Secretary general Mark Rutte said Moscow was "preparing for long-term confrontation with Ukraine and with us", describing the current security situation as the worst in his lifetime.
"We are not ready for what is coming our way in four to five years," he said in his first major speech since becoming secretary general in October, urging members to "turbocharge" their defence spending.
Quote from: theskull1 on December 12, 2024, 10:14:10 PMNot long now before our sons and daughters get dragged into these global conflicts. Theres too many people on the planet anyway I suppose.
Nato must switch to a wartime mindset, warns secretary general (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly41x7eg71o)
The head of Nato has said it is time to "shift to a wartime mindset", as he warned the military alliance's members were not spending enough to prepare for the threat of a future conflict with Russia.
Secretary general Mark Rutte said Moscow was "preparing for long-term confrontation with Ukraine and with us", describing the current security situation as the worst in his lifetime.
"We are not ready for what is coming our way in four to five years," he said in his first major speech since becoming secretary general in October, urging members to "turbocharge" their defence spending.
Best going nuke and getting it over with, reset
Quote from: theskull1 on December 12, 2024, 10:14:10 PMNot long now before our sons and daughters get dragged into these global conflicts. Theres too many people on the planet anyway I suppose.
Nato must switch to a wartime mindset, warns secretary general (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly41x7eg71o)
The head of Nato has said it is time to "shift to a wartime mindset", as he warned the military alliance's members were not spending enough to prepare for the threat of a future conflict with Russia.
Secretary general Mark Rutte said Moscow was "preparing for long-term confrontation with Ukraine and with us", describing the current security situation as the worst in his lifetime.
"We are not ready for what is coming our way in four to five years," he said in his first major speech since becoming secretary general in October, urging members to "turbocharge" their defence spending.
Well let's all hope that the Russians don't attack any NATO countries then, eh old chap.
Or even better they could withdraw from Ukraine and we can have peace in the region again. Wouldn't that be an idea.
The Austrians are a bit slow but they caught on eventually.
https://x.com/karlnehammer/status/1866916363295498575?s=46
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2024, 11:11:13 PMThe Austrians are a bit slow but they caught on eventually.
https://x.com/karlnehammer/status/1866916363295498575?s=46
Yep,
Europe can breathe much easier now, no reliance on Russian gas once the new pipelines from Qatar, through Syria gets up and running.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 13, 2024, 09:24:02 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2024, 11:11:13 PMThe Austrians are a bit slow but they caught on eventually.
https://x.com/karlnehammer/status/1866916363295498575?s=46
Yep,
Europe can breathe much easier now, no reliance on Russian gas once the new pipelines from Qatar, through Syria gets up and running.
There's always a pipeline.
Quote from: SaffronSports on December 13, 2024, 09:59:14 AMQuote from: johnnycool on December 13, 2024, 09:24:02 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 12, 2024, 11:11:13 PMThe Austrians are a bit slow but they caught on eventually.
https://x.com/karlnehammer/status/1866916363295498575?s=46
Yep,
Europe can breathe much easier now, no reliance on Russian gas once the new pipelines from Qatar, through Syria gets up and running.
There's always a pipeline.
Europe is already mostly free from Russian gas.
Even Trump warned them but they just sniggered.
Incidentally, Russia would have you believe that Europe was simultaneously building new pipelines and becoming ever more reliant on their gas but also planning to invade them.
You have to be really stupid to believe their propaganda.
What building new pipelines did do was send a signal to Moscow, that even after invading Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014, they could do whatever they liked.
How Germany must lament Ukraine didn't fold within weeks so they could wring their hands for a while and then promptly get on with business as usual.
yeah, wonder who blew up the Nord stream pipelines?
It wasn't the Germans for sure. They needed coaxed to stop using Russian gas.
You'd have to be really stupid to believe anyone else but Russia caused that environmental disaster.
Anyways... here's a good robust debate worthy of 1 hour ish of your time
Quote from: theskull1 on December 13, 2024, 03:03:10 PMYou'd have to be really stupid to believe anyone else but Russia caused that environmental disaster.
Anyways... here's a good robust debate worthy of 1 hour ish of your time
Death by youtube!
Too much screen time is unhealthy (says the guy with a million posts ;D )
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2024, 03:08:02 PMDeath by youtube!
Too much screen time is unhealthy (says the guy with a million posts ;D )
I agree... but did I say that here. Thought I only said that to my kids :)
For the car on the way home
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3nDsdxyxDVJLGrWz2N2fMX (https://open.spotify.com/episode/3nDsdxyxDVJLGrWz2N2fMX)
Quote from: theskull1 on December 13, 2024, 03:03:10 PMYou'd have to be really stupid to believe anyone else but Russia caused that environmental disaster.
Anyways... here's a good robust debate worthy of 1 hour ish of your time
Russia has spent the last 3 years obliterating ALL life in parts of Eastern Ukraine including blowing up a dam without so much as a mention of environmental concern from this completely disingenuous poster.
His is as concerned for the marine life in the Baltic Sea as he is for human life in Ukraine and more recently Syria (and therefore by extension Palestine or anywhere really).
And for anyone that has been remotely keeping up, Germany suspects the Nordstream pipeline destruction may been a joint Ukrainian-Polish venture. They want Poland to arrest a Ukrainian National, living in Warsaw. Poland have politely told them to Go f**k Themselves. As they should.
As for the debate - don't bother folks, it's another Putin bootlicker Scott Horton spouting the usual imaginary coup, NATO nonsense. You've heard it all before and you'll be invited to hear it all again. Along with the usual plea to suspend your logic and common sense while listening.
Quote from: theskull1 on December 13, 2024, 03:03:10 PMYou'd have to be really stupid to believe anyone else but Russia caused that environmental disaster.
Anyways... here's a good robust debate worthy of 1 hour ish of your time
Russia has spent the last 3 years obliterating ALL life in parts of Eastern Ukraine including blowing up a dam without so much as a mention of environmental concern from this completely disingenuous poster.
His is as concerned for the marine life in the Baltic Sea as he is for human life in Ukraine and more recently Syria (and therefore by extension Palestine or anywhere really).
And for anyone that has been remotely keeping up, Germany suspects the Nordstream pipeline destruction to be a joint Ukrainian-Polish venture. They want Poland to arrest a Ukrainian National, living in Warsaw. Poland have politely told them to Go f**k Themselves. As they should.
As for the debate - don't bother folks, it's another Putin bootlicker Scott Horton spouting the usual imaginary coup, NATO nonsense. You've heard it all before and you'll be invited to hear it all again. Along with the usual plea to suspend your logic and common sense while listening.
The work that man does to get ahead of everyone to save them any bother... doesn't get enough credit. ::)
Me? I'd still encourage people to listen to it... it is a debate so there's arguments being made on both sides (I think Gerard forgot to mention theres a boy he'd be passionately in agreement with arguing against the other boy.. dunno why)
Worth a listen and then draw any conclusion you want.
Quote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2024, 10:31:36 AMThe work that man does to get ahead of everyone to save them any bother... doesn't get enough credit. ::)
Me? I'd still encourage people to listen to it... it is a debate so there's arguments being made on both sides (I think Gerard forgot to mention theres a boy he'd be passionately in agreement with arguing against the other boy.. dunno why)
Worth a listen and then draw any conclusion you want.
Yeah, well, I didn't mention it because I was assuming that everyone knows what the word 'debate' means.
But anyway, sure have a listen if you want to waste an hour or two of your life. I've already debunked each and every argument he will make, elsewhere on this thread. I haven't time to do it all again today or every time Skull posts the same shit again and again. Cutbacks at the GUR psy-op and a few of the lads phoned in sick. C'est la vie.
In the meantime for those of you with only a few minutes to spare. Here is an actual Ukrainian correcting Scott Horton on the nature of the Maidan Revolution that Horton arrogantly and cluelessly calls a 'coup', parroting Russian propaganda.
https://x.com/jplindsley/status/1866766580387905644?s=46
She is from Kharkiv btw, Russian speaking and one of the very people that Horton, Skull and their ilk arrogantly dare to speak on behalf of when they talk about 'Russian speakers' in Ukraine.
p.s. Skull don't forget, Russian propagandists have the blood of Ukrainian children on their hands and that means you.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2024, 12:59:00 PMQuote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2024, 10:31:36 AMThe work that man does to get ahead of everyone to save them any bother... doesn't get enough credit. ::)
Me? I'd still encourage people to listen to it... it is a debate so there's arguments being made on both sides (I think Gerard forgot to mention theres a boy he'd be passionately in agreement with arguing against the other boy.. dunno why)
Worth a listen and then draw any conclusion you want.
p.s. Skull don't forget, Russian propagandists have the blood of Ukrainian children on their hands and that means you.
??
Quote from: jb77 on December 14, 2024, 03:49:53 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 14, 2024, 12:59:00 PMQuote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2024, 10:31:36 AMThe work that man does to get ahead of everyone to save them any bother... doesn't get enough credit. ::)
Me? I'd still encourage people to listen to it... it is a debate so there's arguments being made on both sides (I think Gerard forgot to mention theres a boy he'd be passionately in agreement with arguing against the other boy.. dunno why)
Worth a listen and then draw any conclusion you want.
p.s. Skull don't forget, Russian propagandists have the blood of Ukrainian children on their hands and that means you.
??
Should have said pro-Russian propagandist. Unless Skull is a Russian psy-op that is ;)
Behind every war machine is a propaganda machine and Skull is a very enthusiastic cog in the machine. A small one but playing his part nonetheless.
Skull is getting very tiresome. Why bother listening to him?
Europe seems to be getting its act together regarding defence spending before Trump is inaugurated.
Guilty of wrongthink :-X
Quote from: theskull1 on December 15, 2024, 07:11:27 AMGuilty of wrongthink :-X
Guilty of disseminating Russian lies and propaganda.
No different than any Israeli shill excusing what's happening in Gaza.
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2024, 04:45:53 PMSkull is getting very tiresome. Why bother listening to him?
Europe seems to be getting its act together regarding defence spending before Trump is inaugurated.
You say that like its a good thing!
Defence spending = death and destruction.
If these wars are so just, let the share holders of Lockheed Martin, Halliburton, and the rest send their kids to the front line along with all the politicians kids..
Quote from: johnnycool on December 15, 2024, 10:00:20 AMQuote from: seafoid on December 14, 2024, 04:45:53 PMSkull is getting very tiresome. Why bother listening to him?
Europe seems to be getting its act together regarding defence spending before Trump is inaugurated.
You say that like its a good thing!
Defence spending = death and destruction.
If these wars are so just, let the share holders of Lockheed Martin, Halliburton, and the rest send their kids to the front line along with all the politicians kids..
Russia invaded Ukraine. What part of that is hard for you to understand?
Defence spending is necessary to enable Ukraine to defend itself.
If you're worried about the profits of said companies perhaps you should direct your ire towards the Kremlin.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2024, 10:10:12 AMQuote from: johnnycool on December 15, 2024, 10:00:20 AMQuote from: seafoid on December 14, 2024, 04:45:53 PMSkull is getting very tiresome. Why bother listening to him?
Europe seems to be getting its act together regarding defence spending before Trump is inaugurated.
You say that like its a good thing!
Defence spending = death and destruction.
If these wars are so just, let the share holders of Lockheed Martin, Halliburton, and the rest send their kids to the front line along with all the politicians kids..
Russia invaded Ukraine. What part of that is hard for you to understand?
Defence spending is necessary to enable Ukraine to defend itself.
If you're worried about the profits of said companies perhaps you should direct your ire towards the Kremlin.
Get yourself tooled up and off you go.
The Ukrainian army will welcome you with open arms.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 15, 2024, 10:33:24 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2024, 10:10:12 AMQuote from: johnnycool on December 15, 2024, 10:00:20 AMQuote from: seafoid on December 14, 2024, 04:45:53 PMSkull is getting very tiresome. Why bother listening to him?
Europe seems to be getting its act together regarding defence spending before Trump is inaugurated.
You say that like its a good thing!
Defence spending = death and destruction.
If these wars are so just, let the share holders of Lockheed Martin, Halliburton, and the rest send their kids to the front line along with all the politicians kids..
Russia invaded Ukraine. What part of that is hard for you to understand?
Defence spending is necessary to enable Ukraine to defend itself.
If you're worried about the profits of said companies perhaps you should direct your ire towards the Kremlin.
Get yourself tooled up and off you go.
The Ukrainian army will welcome you with open arms.
Of all the idiotic takes this one has to be the most idiotic of all.
It's also a favourite of the Irish pro-Russian and closet pro-Russian crowd.
As if you can't support the right of a country to defend itself from a genocidal invasion from the empire next door without taking up arms yourself and heading to the front line.
Ukraine has never asked a single country for troops. They have asked for weapons and the means to defend themselves. You want to deny them even that and then cynically mock those who want Ukraine to be able to defend themselves.
If Ukraine had actually been given what they needed back in Autumn 2022 at the time of their successful Kharkiv offensive this war would probably be over and hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved.
The dithering over arms to Ukraine has cost lives and prolonged the war.
You would leave Ukraine completely defenceless with your cynical fake pacifism.
Sad to see people who would classify themselves as nationalists on the Irish question, are so keen to piss all over Ukraine.
There is little sympathy for a nation suffering at the hands of a big power. Russia is not just trying to capture territory, they also deny that Ukraine even has a legitimate identity.
Sinn Fein themselves were calling for Ukraine to be disarmed in their election manifesto. They pull against anything they see associated with 'The West', cosy up to Russia and China, yet they shamelessly rock up to America and hoover up millions in donations from the yanks.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 15, 2024, 10:33:24 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 15, 2024, 10:10:12 AMQuote from: johnnycool on December 15, 2024, 10:00:20 AMQuote from: seafoid on December 14, 2024, 04:45:53 PMSkull is getting very tiresome. Why bother listening to him?
Europe seems to be getting its act together regarding defence spending before Trump is inaugurated.
You say that like its a good thing!
Defence spending = death and destruction.
If these wars are so just, let the share holders of Lockheed Martin, Halliburton, and the rest send their kids to the front line along with all the politicians kids..
Russia invaded Ukraine. What part of that is hard for you to understand?
Defence spending is necessary to enable Ukraine to defend itself.
If you're worried about the profits of said companies perhaps you should direct your ire towards the Kremlin.
Get yourself tooled up and off you go.
The Ukrainian army will welcome you with open arms.
Or how about you head over there and join the Russian/North Korean army? They'd love to have you.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 15, 2024, 10:00:20 AMQuote from: seafoid on December 14, 2024, 04:45:53 PMSkull is getting very tiresome. Why bother listening to him?
Europe seems to be getting its act together regarding defence spending before Trump is inaugurated.
Defence spending = death and destruction.
This is complete nonsense. You might as well say that police spending leads to more crime, when its purpose is to dissuade crime.
It is teenager mentality politics not rooted in the realities of the world. I often think back to the defund the police movement in the US, similar nonsense.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 15, 2024, 10:00:20 AMQuote from: seafoid on December 14, 2024, 04:45:53 PMSkull is getting very tiresome. Why bother listening to him?
Europe seems to be getting its act together regarding defence spending before Trump is inaugurated.
You say that like its a good thing!
Defence spending = death and destruction.
If these wars are so just, let the share holders of Lockheed Martin, Halliburton, and the rest send their kids to the front line along with all the politicians kids..
Defence spending also means you don't get attacked . Stopping Russia is expensive.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/12/16/north-korea-ukraine-russia-war-kursk-hur-language-barrier/
North Korean soldiers have accidentally killed eight Russian troops after a misunderstanding caused by the language barrier, according to Ukrainian intelligence .
According to HUR, Kyiv's military intelligence, the deadly incident occurred when "fearful" North Koreans opened fire on vehicles from Russia's "Akhmat" Chechen legion in Kursk, which Moscow is trying to recapture from Ukraine.
To the North Koreans it's gonna be hard to tell different between Ukrainians and Russians.
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2024, 09:09:37 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/12/16/north-korea-ukraine-russia-war-kursk-hur-language-barrier/
North Korean soldiers have accidentally killed eight Russian troops after a misunderstanding caused by the language barrier, according to Ukrainian intelligence .
According to HUR, Kyiv's military intelligence, the deadly incident occurred when "fearful" North Koreans opened fire on vehicles from Russia's "Akhmat" Chechen legion in Kursk, which Moscow is trying to recapture from Ukraine.
(https://i.ibb.co/B4vgJG2/ezgif-com-added-text.gif)
Ukraine Pravda (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/12/15/7489180/) 15 dec.
On December 14, for the first time in history, the North Korean army launched a massive attack on the positions of the AFU near the city of Sudzha (Kursk Oblast)
*Over 200 enemy soldiers attacked from multiple directions in separate groups,
*Russian forces provided massive fire support, and Russian electronic warfare (EW) systems
Despite suffering losses, the enemy's assault groups advanced head-on, undeterred even by precise fire and heavy strikes from Ukrainian weapons. This strategy resembles the "human wave" tactics employed by the North Korean and Chinese armies during the Korean War of 1950-1953.
Video footage (https://t.me/robert_magyar)available to the Ukrainian command shows dozens of bodies of North Korean soldiers
The attack was carried out by an entire battalion of North Korean troops, demonstrating a high level of combat training and coordination.
It is evident that the Russian command plans to continue sending fresh waves of North Korean "cannon fodder" into battle.
(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/c/2/c20288f-new-project---2024-12-15t143353_690x387.120_690x387.avif)
Wonder will these assassinations inside Russia start to have any bleed through to the Russian public.
Quote from: NAG1 on December 17, 2024, 10:53:46 AMWonder will these assassinations inside Russia start to have any bleed through to the Russian public.
I wouldn't think so, I think the Russian public will simply shrug their shoulders.
It will get through to the thousands of Russian war criminals that they now have a target on their backs that will be acted upon.
On social media, lots of tankies are enraged by a Russian war criminal being whacked, not a peep out of them about the slaughter of Ukrainians.
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 18, 2024, 04:59:19 PMOn social media, lots of tankies are enraged by a Russian war criminal being whacked, not a peep out of them about the slaughter of Ukrainians.
Speaking of which - check out NIs resident moron tankie Phil Kelly - never off our airwaves and TV thanks to Stephen Nolan - wishing none other than the 20thC bloodiest murderer Stalin a happy birthday yesterday.
https://x.com/phil_kelly_/status/1869511843741593635?s=46
How can you claim to be against the slaughter of innocents such as in Gaza and yer hero worship someone like Stalin?
Tankieism is a mental illness.
An interesting observation:
https://x.com/olenahalushka/status/1870026012035109216?s=46
'Make no mistake: russia bombing the downtown of the capital city with 4 million residents is considered routine. Ukraine conducting deep strikes against russian military bases is labeled as escalation. Future historians will feel secondhand embarrassment when studying this era.'
Quote from: NAG1 on December 17, 2024, 10:53:46 AMWonder will these assassinations inside Russia start to have any bleed through to the Russian public.
News in Russia is heavily censored. It is the same in Israel. The people don't get any real information.
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2024, 01:51:15 PMQuote from: NAG1 on December 17, 2024, 10:53:46 AMWonder will these assassinations inside Russia start to have any bleed through to the Russian public.
News in Russia is heavily censored. It is the same in Israel. The people don't get any real information.
I'm sure they'll just blame the US and NATO for the attack.
As for the Russian public, the ones who oppose what Putin know to keep their heads down and their mouths shut.
Sending millions of fellow Russians to their death in war and purges is culturally accepted over there. The norms of a civic society don't exist.
Russia and Israel suffer from group trauma linked to WW2
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/
she spoke of Russian society as a "collective Putin." As she put it, "Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are."
We thought we'd leave communism behind and everything would turn out fine. But it turns out you can't leave this and become free, because these people don't understand what freedom is."
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66006142Putin used a word in Russian that means "upheaval" in an effort to scare his people into rallying around his leadership, says Johns Hopkins University Prof Sergey Radchenko.
"He is saying there could be an upheaval or a civil war," he says, adding that Putin is saying that "it is great" that Russian people indicated their support for his regime over the weekend.
"He is playing on Russian fears of uncertainty in order to try to shore up his authority, but there is no doubt his authority has been severely undermined," Radchenko tells the BBC.
He says the obvious subtext of the speech was: "If it wasn't for me, you'd have chaos every day."
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2024, 03:22:41 PMRussia and Israel suffer from group trauma linked to WW2
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/
she spoke of Russian society as a "collective Putin." As she put it, "Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are."
We thought we'd leave communism behind and everything would turn out fine. But it turns out you can't leave this and become free, because these people don't understand what freedom is."
Russia is on a completely different wavelength. In the largest country on earth, that has a declining population, why would you want to lose hundreds of thousands of lives to capture a few rustbucket towns in Ukraine when you already have a load of rustbucket towns?
On an aside, if there are guys are willing to go and dig a trench and live in it before going over the top to die for €1600 a month, why don't we hire them at €2000 a month to lay blocks?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GfQFzfrW0AAnaRp?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2024, 03:38:59 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 20, 2024, 03:22:41 PMRussia and Israel suffer from group trauma linked to WW2
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/
she spoke of Russian society as a "collective Putin." As she put it, "Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are."
We thought we'd leave communism behind and everything would turn out fine. But it turns out you can't leave this and become free, because these people don't understand what freedom is."
Russia is on a completely different wavelength. In the largest country on earth, that has a declining population, why would you want to lose hundreds of thousands of lives to capture a few rustbucket towns in Ukraine when you already have a load of rustbucket towns?
Mineral-rich rustbucket towns, access to waters that don't freeze, and jealousy that Ukrainian wages and standard of living was getting further ahead of Russia's.
Oh sorry, it was to stop some Nazis and because Zelensky was a dictator, according to some of the geniuses here.
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 20, 2024, 03:52:18 PMMineral-rich rustbucket towns, access to waters that don't freeze, and jealousy that Ukrainian wages and standard of living was getting further ahead of Russia's.
Minerals are a bit 19th century and Russia already has plenty. Ukrainian wages were lower than Russia owing to the corruption there. Now there may have been a fear of Ukraine joining the EU and doing a Poland, but that is in the future.
QuoteOh sorry, it was to stop some Nazis and because Zelensky was a dictator, according to some of the geniuses here.
Of course it is because Zelensky is not a dictator but rather someone actually voted in that is the problem.
Russia already has access to the Black Sea which does not freeze on winter.
Most small towns in eastern Ukraine are actually very nice so shouldn't be put in the category of 'rustbucket'. They are generally very clean, have reasonable roads and good services. Also most towns and cities have trees and greenery throughout that would put any town in Ireland or the UK to shame.
The old soviet style apartment blocks do look tired and worn out but apartments inside are generally as nice and modern as any in the west.
Russia outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg is generally falling apart due to 3 decades of corrupt officials robbing the country blind. A miserable shithole.
This 30 min YouTube video cuts neatly through all the Russian NATO bullshit still promoted by some idiots in the west.
It's the best summation of the sequence of events I've seen online.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lWK_euAwrMk&pp=ygUad2h5IG5hdG8gYWN0dWFsbHkgZXhwYW5kZWQ%3D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gfj8Vr-XMAArgWZ?format=jpg&name=large)
More predictable barbarity this morning.
It's starting to emerge that Russian fire brought down the Azerbaijan Airlines plane.
The usual barking dogs here will start posting about bird strikes!
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 26, 2024, 07:44:19 PMIt's starting to emerge that Russian fire brought down the Azerbaijan Airlines plane.
The usual barking dogs here will start posting about bird strikes!
https://x.com/tendar/status/1872598381232857391?s=46
Azerbaijan airlines will suspend all flight operations going to Sochi, Ufa, Volgograd, Samara, Grozny, Mineralnye Vody and Makhachkala.
Source: Azernews
Finland has seized a Russian ship suspected of cutting a cable between Finland and Estonia.
Quote from: seafoid on December 27, 2024, 11:39:49 AMFinland has seized a Russian ship suspected of cutting a cable between Finland and Estonia.
The Finns are ballsy. Not wanting to ever be in a confrontation with their enormous neighbour, but prepared to stand their ground. It's a tightrope for them.
Did the Finns ask permission off Russia to join NATO?
The tankies here are adamant that countries shouldn't have the sovereignty to do so.
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 27, 2024, 06:27:20 PMDid the Finns ask permission off Russia to join NATO?
The tankies here are adamant that countries shouldn't have the sovereignty to do so.
Finland doesn't exist anyways...
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 27, 2024, 06:27:20 PMDid the Finns ask permission off Russia to join NATO?
The tankies here are adamant that countries shouldn't have the sovereignty to do so.
Very quiet on here recently - still reeling from the loss of Butcher Assad.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/28/china-plan-conquer-pacific-taiwan-beijing-war/
"Let me put it this way. I think Russia's Ukraine invasion informs Xi Jinping of one thing: which is that if you would like to have a military escalation, you have to be 200 per cent prepared. You can't do things half-hearted or half-baked, like what Putin has done."
Russia is having to concede its responsibility in bringing down the airliner.
There were a few half-hearted attempts to blame it on a birdstrike, but no doubt the Grayzones and other pro-Russian lie machines knew it was pushing water uphill trying to cover it up.
What would Russia gain from this? Was it not mostly Russian citizens on board? Was it an attempt at a false flag to try to escalate another situation?
Quote from: SaffronSports on December 28, 2024, 08:54:32 PMWhat would Russia gain from this? Was it not mostly Russian citizens on board? Was it an attempt at a false flag to try to escalate another situation?
It was shot down by mistake by Russia and likely because of poor identification on their part.
Unfortunately for Russia, there were crash survivors and videos made within the plane after it had been hit. So they couldn't cover it up.
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 28, 2024, 09:15:09 PMQuote from: SaffronSports on December 28, 2024, 08:54:32 PMWhat would Russia gain from this? Was it not mostly Russian citizens on board? Was it an attempt at a false flag to try to escalate another situation?
It was shot down by mistake by Russia and likely because of poor identification on their part.
Unfortunately for Russia, there were crash survivors and videos made within the plane after it had been hit. So they couldn't cover it up.
so they thought it was an attack from Ukraine?
Quote from: bennydorano on December 06, 2024, 05:30:31 PMBBC News - Alleged Russian election-meddling in Romania resurrects dark memories
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7vee5n5lp0o
Presidential election results annulled. Theskull will not be pleased.
I see the powers that be annulled the elections knowing fine rightly it was a Romanian consultancy firm (at the behest of one of the establishment parties) who ran this tiktok campaign. They knew this was the case but redacted the name of this consultancy firm from the documents and instead a US funded news outlet in Romania accused Russia of doing the interference bringing about the annullment.
The largest US base in Europe is in Romania
The thing in the White House pulling the rug from under Zekensky
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2025, 06:14:44 PMThe thing in the White House pulling the rug from under Zekensky
Peace in our time 2.0.
More war, not less, will be coming to Europe.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on February 12, 2025, 09:42:52 PMQuote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2025, 06:14:44 PMThe thing in the White House pulling the rug from under Zekensky
Peace in our time 2.0.
More war, not less, will be coming to Europe.
The way to maintain power is to cause disruption with your competitors.
Maybe Europe will finally get it's collective act together and sideline Trump and stand with Ukraine. That would still be a positive outcome for the US tho.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 12, 2025, 10:25:46 PMMaybe Europe will finally get it's collective act together and sideline Trump and stand with Ukraine. That would still be a positive outcome for the US tho.
That's the only hope. Europe needs to beef up its defence and not be relying on the US to protect it from Russia.
Zelensky doesn't have to accept the deal that Trump and his buddy Putin agree between them.
Quote from: Dag Dog on February 12, 2025, 11:00:38 PMQuote from: bennydorano on February 12, 2025, 10:25:46 PMMaybe Europe will finally get it's collective act together and sideline Trump and stand with Ukraine. That would still be a positive outcome for the US tho.
That's the only hope. Europe needs to beef up its defence and not be relying on the US to protect it from Russia.
Zelensky doesn't have to accept the deal that Trump and his buddy Putin agree between them.
Correct.
Not only is the US no longer a reliable ally, it's actually a hostile adversary under Trump.
Compare Trump's glowing praise of Russia and Putin in his statement today with the hostile language used towards actual US allies in the past 2 weeks.
Only way Europe get up and running,is if Germany gets off the pot, stop feeling sorry for itself,and push a large arms programme.France likewise.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 13, 2025, 12:01:05 AMOnly way Europe get up and running,is if Germany gets off the pot, stop feeling sorry for itself,and push a large arms programme.France likewise.
Merz if elected will be much better than Scholz, who is a disgrace.
What to expect from France? lots of tough talk from Macron so far and little else.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 13, 2025, 12:01:05 AMOnly way Europe get up and running,is if Germany gets off the pot, stop feeling sorry for itself,and push a large arms programme.France likewise.
Are Germany allowed to get off the pot?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2025, 08:55:42 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on February 13, 2025, 12:01:05 AMOnly way Europe get up and running,is if Germany gets off the pot, stop feeling sorry for itself,and push a large arms programme.France likewise.
Are Germany allowed to get off the pot?
The only thing keeping Germans on the pot are themselves with their pious handwringing over WW2.
Statement from the Weimar+ group of European countries.
https://x.com/kajakallas/status/1889800055303049695
Re - Statement from the Weimar+ group of European countries.
....... Seeing more ridicule than support in the replies.
Do people here think the EU should demand a common EU army should be formed to help with any future conflicts being planned? .... asking for your sons and daughters
Quote from: theskull1 on February 13, 2025, 01:18:12 PMRe - Statement from the Weimar+ group of European countries.
....... Seeing more ridicule than support in the replies.
Do people here think the EU should demand a common EU army should be formed to help with any future conflicts being planned? .... asking for your sons and daughters
Ah there you are Holohoax, reliable as ever.
The reason you can't spot obvious bots in replies is the same reason you believe any old shit you see online. You are gullible beyond belief.
As for your question, who is planning a future conflict? Are the EU now planning an imminent invasion of Russia? You know, the invasion you stupidly believed NATO were planning... cos Putin (and his bots) told you so.
Let's not forget, only one country invaded another in this conflict and that country was Russia.
Oh hi Gerry... how's tricks?
Any chance you could point me to one or two of those bot accounts? I've looked at a few popular replies and I'm struggling to spot bots... putting it down to low IQ.
Anyways... do you think we're at the stage where our sons and daughters need to man and woman up to fight if needed for the EU and it's allies?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on February 12, 2025, 11:30:37 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on February 12, 2025, 11:00:38 PMQuote from: bennydorano on February 12, 2025, 10:25:46 PMMaybe Europe will finally get it's collective act together and sideline Trump and stand with Ukraine. That would still be a positive outcome for the US tho.
That's the only hope. Europe needs to beef up its defence and not be relying on the US to protect it from Russia.
Zelensky doesn't have to accept the deal that Trump and his buddy Putin agree between them.
Correct.
Not only is the US no longer a reliable ally, it's actually a hostile adversary under Trump.
Compare Trump's glowing praise of Russia and Putin in his statement today with the hostile language used towards actual US allies in the past 2 weeks.
Old Vlad is certainly getting some mileage outta that video he allegedly has of the orange moron at a 'champagne and caviar' orgy with a pile of hookers in Moscow a few years back.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 13, 2025, 03:46:58 PMOh hi Gerry... how's tricks?
Any chance you could point me to one or two of those bot accounts? I've looked at a few popular replies and I'm struggling to spot bots... putting it down to low IQ.
Anyways... do you think we're at the stage where our sons and daughters need to man and woman up to fight if needed for the EU and it's allies?
No, no EU army required yet, Europe just needs to collectively ramp up it's financial and military support for Ukraine. Otherwise, Trump's criminal plan will lead to a larger war in 5-10 years or maybe sooner.
It'll be the Ukrainians, Moldovans, Georgians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians and Poles that will ultimately pay the heavy price for the betrayal you're cheering on. Not to mention the colonised cannon fodder that constitute much of the so-called Russian 'Federation'. You know, the people you don't give a shit about with your fake anti-imperialism.
Btw, how is your Holohoax investigation coming along? You made a few assertions and then ran away from it, you haven't the balls to spout whatever rubbish is in your head on that particular topic it would seem.
What am I cheering on?
Never was able to convince you that explaining is not excusing.
Quote from: red hander on February 13, 2025, 04:15:26 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on February 12, 2025, 11:30:37 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on February 12, 2025, 11:00:38 PMQuote from: bennydorano on February 12, 2025, 10:25:46 PMMaybe Europe will finally get it's collective act together and sideline Trump and stand with Ukraine. That would still be a positive outcome for the US tho.
That's the only hope. Europe needs to beef up its defence and not be relying on the US to protect it from Russia.
Zelensky doesn't have to accept the deal that Trump and his buddy Putin agree between them.
Correct.
Not only is the US no longer a reliable ally, it's actually a hostile adversary under Trump.
Compare Trump's glowing praise of Russia and Putin in his statement today with the hostile language used towards actual US allies in the past 2 weeks.
Old Vlad is certainly getting some mileage outta that video he allegedly has of the orange moron at a 'champagne and caviar' orgy with a pile of hookers in Moscow a few years back.
If that were true would the orange fella really care? Or would it even do any harm to him if it was released?
I think Satanyahu is winning in the whole entrapment/blackmail side of things. Begs the question how many people in important leadership positions are compromised
Quote from: theskull1 on February 13, 2025, 06:35:30 PMI think Satanyahu is winning in the whole entrapment/blackmail side of things. Begs the question how many people in important leadership positions are compromised
Do you have any evidence that Netanyahu has compromising blackmail material on a single leader of importance in the west?
Quote from: theskull1 on February 13, 2025, 06:04:25 PMWhat am I cheering on?
Never was able to convince you that explaining is not excusing.
And you never will because excusing is exactly what you're doing every time you repeat Russia's bullshit, lies and propaganda for their genocidal war.
It's also telling that you first heard that turn of phrase from that mad German Owl woman and thought it was so catchy and clever you've been using it ever since.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on February 13, 2025, 07:01:55 PMDo you have any evidence that Netanyahu has compromising blackmail material on a single leader of importance in the west?
Absolutely zero.
Solid evidence that Epstien was Mossad so don't mind me having a hunch.
Unbelievable number of western leaders licking Israel's hole and the rest keeping their mouth shut. One has to wonder why this is
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on February 13, 2025, 07:01:55 PMQuote from: theskull1 on February 13, 2025, 06:35:30 PMI think Satanyahu is winning in the whole entrapment/blackmail side of things. Begs the question how many people in important leadership positions are compromised
Do you have any evidence that Netanyahu has compromising blackmail material on a single leader of importance in the west?
Israel and Mossad were funding Epstein to the balls and he in turn was compromising the great and the good of US politics, business and Media to do their bidding.
That includes both sides of the house and one of the reasons Epstein was never going to be allowed to talk.
Look at the flight lists for the Lolita express FFS.
The biggest surprise is how he ever saw the inside of a prison cell.
Maxwells Da, the "dead" Robert was a know Mossad agent, so the apple didn't fall far from the tree there!
Trump would get on the crack of a plate as they say so it would have been foolish of Putin not to take advantage of that weakness at the time.
I know Trump is meant to have a golden toilet but evidently he likes golden showers as well!
We have our own Senator known as 'Cobalt' who was compromised by a Russian honey trap.
Chernobyl reactor hit by Russian drone.... Ukraine says
Assuming false flags never ever happen thats pretty foolish of Russia doing Ukraine a favour in the court of public opinion.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2025, 11:09:36 AMChernobyl reactor hit by Russian drone.... Ukraine says
Assuming false flags never ever happen thats pretty foolish of Russia doing Ukraine a favour in the court of public opinion.
The Russians do not seem to pay much attention to public opinion.
Why would they care now, when Trump has given them Carte Blanche to do as they please and keep the illegally seized lands, because they 'fought for them'.
Quote from: NAG1 on February 14, 2025, 11:41:18 AMWhy would they care now, when Trump has given them Carte Blanche to do as they please and keep the illegally seized lands, because they 'fought for them'.
While you might not be in admiration of previous presidents, the likes of Ronald Reagan stood up to the Russians, the present man-child is a disgrace.
I like Monbiot and he's right on Ukraine and but if you transpose Ukraine with Palestine, would he get the same reaction?
https://x.com/i/status/1890368551501828212 (https://x.com/i/status/1890368551501828212)
Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2025, 11:09:36 AMChernobyl reactor hit by Russian drone.... Ukraine says
Assuming false flags never ever happen thats pretty foolish of Russia doing Ukraine a favour in the court of public opinion.
Aye good one Holohoax. As if Russia ever gave a shit about the court of public opinion. Is that the same Russian that has been massacring civilians since day one of this war?
What have we so far? Ukrainians murdered themselves at Bucha, blew up their own dam causing massive devastation to their own country, bombed their own maternity hospital and now blowing up Chernobyl to create a nuclear disaster in their own country.
Russia is saying to Europe 'ceasefire and talks now' (fake talks process to allow Russia a breather that is, it's obviously a trap) or look what we might do. It's just another version of their nuclear terrorism.
Here I've a new theory for you for your Holohoax investigation. Have you considered that the Js, (or the 'How do ya Dos' or the 'you know whos' or whatever pet name you have for Jews these days) didn't murder, work to death, gas and incinerate themselves? Could be. You'd definitely shouldn't rule it out. No one else can see it but you. You might even get a guest slot on the GrayZone with your investigation. Give it a shot.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 14, 2025, 12:01:30 PMI like Monbiot and he's right on Ukraine and but if you transpose Ukraine with Palestine, would he get the same reaction?
https://x.com/i/status/1890368551501828212 (https://x.com/i/status/1890368551501828212)
The west are obviously hypocrites on Palestine. Israel is as hideous as Russia. That doesn't mean Ukraine should suffer genocide too.
Fiona Bruce actually pointed out the solution from 0:20 onwards. She said Ukraine were slow losing because they didn't get enough financial support and weapons.
The solution to that isn't to surrender to Russia. It's more support, more weapons and hammer the f**k out of the Russians. And proper sanctions that really cripple Russia until the Russian gulag of Asian nations (federation my arse) completely collapses and/or Putin is gone.
Because anyone who knows what they are talking about, knows that Russia is not interested in any kind of peace.
Europe needs to step up, pay up and support Ukraine now or it will really pay the price in the years to come. Starting with tens of millions of Ukrainians refugees, not to mention refugees from Baltic states and Moldova. The time to stop Russia is now.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 14, 2025, 12:01:30 PMI like Monbiot and he's right on Ukraine and but if you transpose Ukraine with Palestine, would he get the same reaction?
https://x.com/i/status/1890368551501828212 (https://x.com/i/status/1890368551501828212)
The most disappointing thing is that the prat from GB News got applauded.
The whole timing of an attack on Chernobyl is peculiar, how this benefits russia i have no idea. Is there any footage without the jumpcut before the strike?
Quote from: jb77 on February 14, 2025, 01:41:11 PMThe whole timing of an attack on Chernobyl is peculiar, how this benefits russia i have no idea. Is there any footage without the jumpcut before the strike?
It's called nuclear terrorism. Russia has been using it since the start of the war. Now they're using it to say look what could happen next if there isn't a ceasefire.
Russia would have been delighted with Trumps announcements, less so with the noise from the rest of Europe about gearing up to support Ukraine. Hence the warning shot against Chornobyl last night.
With Russia you aren't dealing with a country interested in peace. You are dealing with a country that desperately wants to consolidate their current position and have a pause to regroup.
Trump wants Germany to rearm. I wonder if that will play out like it did the last time.
To me the Russians def have sthing on Trump. His Russian love in does not make sense. He no idea of world affairs. Fall by the wayside in Ukraine putting the issue 10yrs down the line with Estonia or Poland. Though Poland well geared up this time unlike WW2. Finland I don't think is as worried, as they handed Russia their ass during WW2 with very little. Terrain just that hard going.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 14, 2025, 08:43:54 PMTo me the Russians def have sthing on Trump. His Russian love in does not make sense. He no idea of world affairs. Fall by the wayside in Ukraine putting the issue 10yrs down the line with Estonia or Poland. Though Poland well geared up this time unlike WW2. Finland I don't think is as worried, as they handed Russia their ass during WW2 with very little. Terrain just that hard going.
Finland lost a province called Karelia after WW2. I think it had the second largest city at the time. The population was ethically cleansed. It hit very hard.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 14, 2025, 08:43:54 PMTo me the Russians def have sthing on Trump. His Russian love in does not make sense. He no idea of world affairs.
He could be compromised by Russia, or he likes strong men dictators like Putin. Trump would secretly enjoy the option of throwing opponents off balconies.
He may hold a grudge against Ukraine for not helping him dig up dirt on the Bidens.
Carving up Ukraine to plunder their resources aligns his deal-making instinct too.
Anyway, it's not looking for Ukraine at the moment. JD Vance seems like slightly more level-headed, but is no great friend of Ukraine either, going by some of his utterances.
So is the concensus that Russia is the biggest threat to the West?
The West who lick the hole of Israel regardless of their depravity think that Russia is the main threat?
Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2025, 11:58:31 PMSo is the concensus that Russia is the biggest threat to the West?
The West who lick the hole of Israel regardless of their depravity think that Russia is the main threat?
Yes Russia is the biggest threat to the West.
Things are about to get very confusing for you Holohoax.
What will you do now that Trump and Putin are about to become best friends again?
Will you take away Putin's 'Get Out Of Jail Free' card that western fake anti-imperialists, fake humanitarians such as yourself have assigned to some of the worst despots and repressive regimes in the world? (Even those that slaughter those you've convinced yourself you're a champion of, the Palestinians, oh yes).
Or will you double down and somehow find a way in your head to continue supporting the Child Murdering, Bombing, Thieving, Raping, Ethnic cleansing, monstrous, EMPIRE of Russia?
I predict the latter.
p.s. you really don't care about Palestinians either, you'd excuse Assad or Iran or Russia if they'd flattened Gaza. You'd be on here explaining why, but not excusing, of course.
Hey Gerry ..... why didn't Duewelensky not let you know he actually does want your sons or daughters to die for the cause?
You'd agree it's the right thing to do now right?
'Army of Europe' needed to challenge Russia says Zelensky (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo)
You could certainly see a future where there's a NATO without the US, which would be a defacto euro army. If Trump's appease Putin plan is discarded and he throws the toys out of the pram it could happen pretty soon, the framework is already there.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 15, 2025, 06:31:08 PMHey Gerry ..... why didn't Duewelensky not let you know he actually does want your sons or daughters to die for the cause?
You'd agree it's the right thing to do now right?
'Army of Europe' needed to challenge Russia says Zelensky (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo)
"The cause" that you deride so much is the defence of less powerful nations against the fascist revanchist empire next door. Not much concern for 'sons and daughters' living next to Russia from you eh Holohoax?
It's easy to sneer when you live on an island far from the threat, that has been able to freeload on security for decades, even embarrassingly outsourcing aerial security to none other than the Saxon Foe. Oh dear.
As for a European Army - there should be greater defence spending, coordination and cohesion at all levels between willing countries. I don't think an official 'EU army' would work, if that was what President Zelenskyy was referring to.
ps. Israel throws the accusations of antisemitism around like confetti. It's part and parcel of their propaganda which enables them to commit their atrocities. However, antisemitism does exist and there are antisemites out there and you are one. Who do you think you are helping with your pathetic jibes? Certainly not the Palestinians. In fact the opposite. Israel needs antisemitism to justify its existence and you and those like you are fuel for their fire.
pps. How is the Holohoax investigation coming along? You've gone terribly quiet on that one.
Not enough money to be made in peace
The bankers and the bankers shills love war
Quote from: theskull1 on February 17, 2025, 10:45:01 PMNot enough money to be made in peace
The bankers and the bankers shills love war
Putin can go back to Russia anytime he likes. No more war.
You prefer to blame the victim for fighting back because of your sick twisted ideology.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 17, 2025, 10:45:01 PMNot enough money to be made in peace
The bankers and the bankers shills love war
Trump wants Ukraine to surrender because he doesn't want to keep giving financing them.
Putin has put the Russian economy in serious trouble because his 3-day-war blew up in face - interest rates at 21%, inflation at 9%.
I'm sure a phone call from a couple of bankers will persuade them to drag it out a few more years and cost more billions.
Looks like Trump and the Russians want to force Ukraine to hold an election to force Zelenskyy out as part of their surrender plan.
Never mind that Ukraine is following their constitution in delaying elections during a war and martial law.
It'll be then over to Alolf Musk et al to promote their preferred candidate.
I wonder what dirty tricks Trump
Will try to pull to force Ukraine to accept this BS.
Edit: it's not a Munich 1938 Peace in our time blunder the Americans are making it's looking more like a full on modern day Molotov - Ribbentrop Pact 2025 agreement in the plundering of Ukraine these MFs are attempting.
Surely the remaining electorate in the Ukrainian held areas would vote their piano playing president back in again?
If not why not?
Quote from: theskull1 on February 18, 2025, 06:10:24 PMSurely the remaining electorate in the Ukrainian held areas would vote their piano playing president back in again?
If not why not?
The British did not vote for Churchill.
If Ukrainians want their young men to keep fighting, they'll vote for the man in military fatigues
Skull, don't think u lasted long up North in the 70's with that defeatist attitude.
I just see it as a completely pointless loss of hundreds of thousands of young lives Weasel.
Many agree with my perspective as much as I know many here don't. Europe is all the poorer for this pointless war.
America wouldn't stand for the likes of Mexico or Cuba entering into a military alliance with say the likes of China and they would get a warning to not do it or else face consequences. It would be completely understandable to me if I put myself in the US's shoes why invading said countries would take place if they continued with their plans.
Sadly Ukraine played chicken with Putin's threats, egged on by the west who were more than happy to try and weaken Russia.
RAND - Overextending and Unbalancing Russia - 2019 (https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html)
I'm not sure it's as simple as that skull, this has been happening since well before 2014, various different governments have been in place before this guy.
I'm not sure invading a country should be acceptable anywhere, you invade one county because they lie down and ya move into another and so on, before ya know it they are in Finland Poland and all the other bordering countries.
Americans happy to let Israel do there genocide and allow Russia to stay in large parts of the Ukraine
Putin is a gangster a Terrorist a dictator and a megalomaniac, he has brought Russia back to the dark ages while his wealth gets bigger. Throwing young lads into battles with the bare minimum training and kit, and for what?
https://www.ft.com/content/c81e2b9f-2ff5-4282-9f5a-8fa1a5b794da
Putin wants to deal with what he considers the "root causes" of the situation — the development of a European security order unfavourable to Russia since the end of the cold war.
He wants Ukraine to be a failed state with no friends. That is unlikely to happen
Quote from: theskull1 on February 18, 2025, 07:48:05 PMI just see it as a completely pointless loss of hundreds of thousands of young lives Weasel.
Many agree with my perspective as much as I know many here don't. Europe is all the poorer for this pointless war.
America wouldn't stand for the likes of Mexico or Cuba entering into a military alliance with say the likes of China and they would get a warning to not do it or else face consequences. It would be completely understandable to me if I put myself in the US's shoes why invading said countries would take place if they continued with their plans.
Sadly Ukraine played chicken with Putin's threats, egged on by the west who were more than happy to try and weaken Russia.
RAND - Overextending and Unbalancing Russia - 2019 (https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html)
Well, well, well, at last the board 'anti-imperialist' has finally outed himself. A fake and a charlatan.
He now understands the US by 'putting himself in their shoes'. How easily he puts on the hypothetical shoes of an empire, in order to excuse the actions of Russia.
Did he ever think to put on, perhaps, Mexico's hypothetical shoes for wanting to join a defensive alliance if say for example, the US had:
1. Colonised Mexico again and again over centuries.
2. Attempted to erase their culture.
3. Attempted to erase their language.
4. Created an artificial famine that killed millions in the 1930s. (The Irish still bitterly remember the 1840s)
5. Deported hundreds of thousands to the the eastern fringe of their evil empire.
6. More recently annexed Baja California and parts of 2 other Mexican provinces.
Of course he didn't, he prefers to slip on the shoes of the imperialist, rather than the victim. Sick and twisted.
Amusing to see him pivot to 'understanding' a hypothetical United States, only now that it's being run by a wannabe fascist.
Interesting also that he's still clinging onto his hatred of Ukraine, the actual victim of imperialism in all this. Or perhaps it's just his hatred of 'Duelensky' that he has extended to encompass all of Ukraine - we all know the name of that particular prejudice - he has demonstrated it time and again on this board with his words.
I wonder if he could also excuse Israel flattening Gaza because of Hamas' military alliance with Iran? Of course he could, if it suited him.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine is indeed a massive loss of life. Caused by Russia, and excused by their online army of western fake anti-imperialist anti-west dimwits. Every single one of them have Ukrainian blood on their hands.
p.s. here is 'the West' trying to 'weaken' Russia..yeah that's right.
https://www.dw.com/en/the-history-of-nord-stream/a-58618313
Very spicy in here for an old GAA forum
Gerry runs hot all the time.
Regardless of his pro 'fight to the very last man attitude', I believe many ordinary Ukrainians will hold opinions similar to mine and have had enough of the piano man.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 18, 2025, 06:10:24 PMSurely the remaining electorate in the Ukrainian held areas would vote their piano playing president back in again?
If not why not?
Zelenskyy can play the piano? What a freak!
Seriously, talking about an election while also referencing 'the remaining electorate' and 'Ukrainian held areas'. You're beyond parody at this stage.
p.s. the Ukrainian constitution prohibits an election during martial law. But you already knew that.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 18, 2025, 09:31:12 PMGerry runs hot all the time.
Regardless of his pro 'fight to the very last man attitude', I believe many ordinary Ukrainians will hold opinions similar to mine and have had enough of the piano man.
Holohoax thinks I'm a GUR psy-op called Gerry. (Psy-op lol)
I'm pro arm Ukraine to the f**king teeth to save the lives of as many Ukrainian men, women and children as possible. The war could have been over by now.
Holohoax is pro make Ukraine surrender and ignore the genocide, rape, torture, murder and all the rest.
And blame Ukraine (again) when it all kicks off (again) in 5 years.
And it seems the propagandists he follows on X tell him that Ukrainians want what he wants. Tells you ALL you need to know about his judgement.
The point of smaller nations joining Nato is to seek protection from its bigger more dangerous neighbour who has previous form invading their neighbours. Germany, UK and France would be the main stays in any Nato defence. Poland had to arm up as they the biggest under thread. Smaller countries offer very little but rush to join NATO for protection.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 18, 2025, 10:13:37 PMThe point of smaller nations joining Nato is to seek protection from its bigger more dangerous neighbour who has previous form invading their neighbours. Germany, UK and France would be the main stays in any Nato defence. Poland had to arm up as they the biggest under thread. Smaller countries offer very little but rush to join NATO for protection.
Poland watched the cowing of the Biden Administration to Russia's nuclear huffing and puffing over the past 3 years and realised that NATOs Article 5 assurances are worthless.
That's why they've spent the last 3 years arming themselves to the teeth.
Even more worthless now with the fascist Trump and Adolf Musk in power in the US.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 18, 2025, 10:13:37 PMThe point of smaller nations joining Nato is to seek protection from its bigger more dangerous neighbour who has previous form invading their neighbours. Germany, UK and France would be the main stays in any Nato defence. Poland had to arm up as they the biggest under thread. Smaller countries offer very little but rush to join NATO for protection.
The military prowess of the 3 small baltic countries is considerable. Now in addition new member Finland has an army that could readily defend its territory from any Russian attack, not only that but punch back with devastating effect.
Getting a '40 beheaded babies' vibe when I hear people scare mongering about Russia attacking other territories but maybe I'm missing something.
Can someone provide evidence that taking over other countries is part of Russia's medium term plan?
Quote from: theskull1 on February 18, 2025, 09:31:12 PMGerry runs hot all the time.
Regardless of his pro 'fight to the very last man attitude', I believe many ordinary Ukrainians will hold opinions similar to mine and have had enough of the piano man.
Do you really believe that a large proportion of Ukrainians want to be occupied by Russia?
Go bck and look at history of Eastern Europe, you obviously out of step with it
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2025, 12:22:53 AMQuote from: theskull1 on February 18, 2025, 09:31:12 PMGerry runs hot all the time.
Regardless of his pro 'fight to the very last man attitude', I believe many ordinary Ukrainians will hold opinions similar to mine and have had enough of the piano man.
Do you really believe that a large proportion of Ukrainians want to be occupied by Russia?
He believes whatever X, Y or Z Russian propagandist on Twitter tells him to believe. GrayZone grifters most likely.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 18, 2025, 11:55:15 PMGetting a '40 beheaded babies' vibe when I hear people scare mongering about Russia attacking other territories but maybe I'm missing something.
Can someone provide evidence that taking over other countries is part of Russia's medium term plan?
Maybe you missed the invasion of Ukraine that definitely wasn't going to happen, as assured by the liars in Moscow?
Did you register what Russia did to Chechnya?
Did you see what Russia did to Georgia in 2008?
Are you aware that Moscow occupies parts of Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia?
Russia has been involved in hybrid warfare against all its neighbours for decades now.
Russia wants the NATO defensive umbrella out of all the countries it used to occupy - the burglar wants the security guards off the premises.
All the EE countries fear a Russian invasion but you know better sitting on your hole in Ireland guzzling conspiracy theory videos on YouTube.
Finland have one of the most modern, well equipped, well trained armies in Europe and all their guns point east. Why is that do you think?
p.s. You don't have to look for Israeli style atrocity propaganda in Ukraine - you just have to look at what the Russians have done - well documented. They even film themselves doing it, easy to find if you have the stomach for such things.
"Trumputin" now saying Ukraine started the war!
The big boys on all sides (more so on the Western/Israeli side) have been exerting their nefarious political & military might for many many many decades (Sykes–Picot anyone) in their hunt to control resources and trade relationships. We're at a stage currently (same as in the 50s/60s) where the fight to control these resources and relationships is bringing the possibility of nuclear conflict into view.
This isn't the ordinary mans fight from where I'm sitting but our compromised western leaders want you to think it is.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 19, 2025, 09:55:08 AMThe big boys on all sides (more so on the Western/Israeli side) have been exerting their nefarious political & military might for many decades in their hunt to control resources and trade relationships for all my lifetime. We're at a stage currently where the fight to control these resources and relationships is bringing the possibility of nuclear conflict into view.
This isn't the ordinary mans fight from where I'm sitting but our EU leaders want you to think it is.
You're sitting safe in your armchair in a country thousands of miles from the Russian threat. That allows you to pontificate about your twisted anti-western political ideology and your anti-Semitism and your conspiracy theories without any real life consequences to you and your family.
The Russians have been telling the 'ordinary man' in Ukraine that their country and nation do not exist.
The Russians have been murdering the Ukrainian 'ordinary man' for over a decade now.
The Russians have raped, tortured, beheaded, castrated, kidnapped, deported, shot, bombed the Ukrainian 'ordinary man'.
Meanwhile, you sneer at the Ukrainian 'ordinary man' for fighting back.
Sure the 'big boys' want to exert their strength for influence and control of resources. Yet you've become so twisted you take their side over the smaller nation fighting for its survival.
It was the Irish 'ordinary man' that kicked the British out of (most of) Ireland. You'd sneer at them too. I have no doubt of it.
Forgive me for considering that the 'pro everything Israeli' West are not good guys either Gerry.
What a controversial thought that is ::)
Quote from: theskull1 on February 19, 2025, 11:01:08 AMForgive me for considering that the 'pro everything Israeli' West are not good guys either Gerry.
What a controversial thought that is ::)
You can think what you like Holohoax.
But I'll take issue and call you out each and everytime you sneer at the victims of imperial aggression and genocide in Ukraine and take the side of the aggressor, Russia.
All these great powers in the world...like Israel and Iran fighting each other and wrestling for power and influence. What on earth is the wee Palestinian 'ordinary man' doing trying to resist Israel. They should just roll over and suck it up. It's all above their head and anyway, isn't it 'understandable' when the great powers do these heinous things to protect their position.
You're a hypocrite, plain and simple. You are not anti-imperialist and you are not a humanitarian.
Not where someone could even start with this one. The usual dose of fiction.
However, it should remove any doubt that Trump is massively on Putin's side.
It's a great outcome for Russia, but then Trump is very unreliable and could yet pivot.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GkKYoYPWMAAuCdj?format=jpg&name=large)
Lies from start to finish from an evil sociopath.
It's little wonder he and Putin have so much common ground. Carve up and plunder Ukraine.
Trump isn't going to pivot anywhere. This is who he is.
Russia's puppet is doing as they need. To think we're only a month into Trump's second term, just under 4 years to go ... frightening.
That's an insane amount of money to spend in fairness for very little return.
Putin must be laughing his hole off.
At least someone is.☹️
Trump is a figurehead. His people don't live in Trump's space of disinformation.
Ukraine left talks 3 years ago because Putin was unreasonable. It will be the same this time.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 19, 2025, 05:50:57 PMThat's an insane amount of money to spend in fairness for very little return.
Like everything Trump says it's a fictional overinflated figure.
Zelenskyy has since confirmed that the US provided $67B in weapons (that's the price of replacing the old weapons Ukraine were actually sent) and $31.5B in budget support.
I see they are now also twisting his words from an interview in which Zelenskyy says he never saw the figures of money they are talking about into - it's "MISSING" - as in stolen.
What 'return' are you talking about RH88? What was the value of the Nuclear weapons and heavy bombers the US pressured Ukraine to destroy in 1994 in return for a worthless guarantee of sovereignty?
Even if the fictional $350B figure was true the US isn't even close to fulfilling it's obligations to Ukraine. UK too for that matter.
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 19, 2025, 05:50:57 PMThat's an insane amount of money to spend in fairness for very little return.
The return is that most of Ukraine is not occupied by Russia, and so Poland, Lithuania etc are also not occupied by Russia.
Russia wants Finland too, but the Baltic States will be the next one in their sights.
A fact for geography buffs out there - Norway has a land border with Russia but Sweden doesn't.
It's right up at the top isn't it with Finland running alongside Russia for the most part
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 19, 2025, 05:50:57 PMThat's an insane amount of money to spend in fairness for very little return.
fuk sake man.
Aside from Trump adding 1 + 1 and getting 37547...
See a load of the armaments they sent? They were life items that were near needing retirement or refurbishment anyway. Guess what was the cost quoted to the media? Not the actual depreciated value of the stuff, but rather the shiny new equivalent!
Never read anything from Trump without double checking it.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 19, 2025, 08:53:20 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on February 19, 2025, 05:50:57 PMThat's an insane amount of money to spend in fairness for very little return.
fuk sake man.
Aside from Trump adding 1 + 1 and getting 37547...
See a load of the armaments they sent? They were life items that were near needing retirement or refurbishment anyway. Guess what was the cost quoted to the media? Not the actual depreciated value of the stuff, but rather the shiny new equivalent!
Never read anything from Trump without double checking it.
The shareholders of Lockheed Martin, Ratheon and others are doing well out of the US taxpayer.
Trump will need another way of filling their pockets if he's going to cut 40% from the Pentagon budget over his term
Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 19, 2025, 07:34:28 PMRussia wants Finland too, but the Baltic States will be the next one in their sights.
A fact for geography buffs out there - Norway has a land border with Russia but Sweden doesn't.
Is that a particularly noteworthy nugget? Do most people not look at maps any more?
Many don't look that far North.....
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/624/cpsprodpb/5324/production/_91548212_norway_russia_fence.png)
All Trump's latest bullshit neatly taken apart here:
https://x.com/geoconfirmed/status/1892375311804727529?s=46
Quote from: gallsman on February 19, 2025, 09:55:37 PMQuote from: Aaron Boone on February 19, 2025, 07:34:28 PMRussia wants Finland too, but the Baltic States will be the next one in their sights.
A fact for geography buffs out there - Norway has a land border with Russia but Sweden doesn't.
Is that a particularly noteworthy nugget? Do most people not look at maps any more?
I tell you what its more noteworthy than your reply to it, or mines to you for that matter
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 19, 2025, 10:13:09 PMMany don't look that far North.....
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/624/cpsprodpb/5324/production/_91548212_norway_russia_fence.png)
It' mad now, when you look at the way countries were divided up years ago.
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2025, 10:38:26 AMQuote from: From the Bunker on February 19, 2025, 10:13:09 PMMany don't look that far North.....
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/624/cpsprodpb/5324/production/_91548212_norway_russia_fence.png)
It' mad now, when you look at the way countries were divided up years ago.
Still struggling how we have been divided up for over a 100 years ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2025, 10:40:17 AMQuote from: marty34 on February 20, 2025, 10:38:26 AMQuote from: From the Bunker on February 19, 2025, 10:13:09 PMMany don't look that far North.....
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/624/cpsprodpb/5324/production/_91548212_norway_russia_fence.png)
It' mad now, when you look at the way countries were divided up years ago.
Still struggling how we have been divided up for over a 100 years ;)
That's down to the Brits. Sport shows how close we are.
It's no surprise that Finland doesn't want to have peacekeeping troops in Ukraine.
Putin wants to go back to the Cold war, When Russia controlled the Baltic States, Ukraine and the stans - Uzbekistan,Kazakhstan etc. It also controlled most of Eastern Europe. There is something pathetic about Putin in wishing to turn back political time.
https://www.ft.com/content/d73113b4-f58a-442e-ae10-a74973ebc49f
A Financial Times investigative documentary has found evidence that Russian executions of Ukrainian prisoners of war are not isolated incidents but are likely to be part of a broader pattern that points to a systematic policy.
The investigation reveals the suspected identity of one Russian soldier who is filmed taking part in the mass execution of surrendered Ukrainian soldiers. It also raises questions about chain of command and the Kremlin's role in these war crimes.
On the plus side Trumps cosying up to Putin is a kick in the stomach to the British that have been complicit in US war crimes for years... lapdogs
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 20, 2025, 12:44:35 PMOn the plus side Trumps cosying up to Putin is a kick in the stomach to the British that have been complicit in US war crimes for years... lapdogs
You may stick these countries to name a few into that war crimes category from years ago
Belgium
France
Spain
Portugal
Germany
Syria
South Africa
The Dutch
And a host of African countries that are still doing genocide
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2025, 01:15:08 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 20, 2025, 12:44:35 PMOn the plus side Trumps cosying up to Putin is a kick in the stomach to the British that have been complicit in US war crimes for years... lapdogs
You may stick these countries to name a few into that war crimes category from years ago
Belgium
France
Spain
Portugal
Germany
Syria
South Africa
The Dutch
And a host of African countries that are still doing genocide
True dat... I suppose after what the British have done here, it gives me more pleasure to see Trump poke them in the eye.
https://www.ft.com/content/73809e7a-a772-403a-8755-41a329d6a45d
The US is opposing calling Russia the aggressor in a G7 statement on the third anniversary of Moscow's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, threatening to derail a traditional show of unity, according to five western officials familiar with the matter.
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 20, 2025, 12:44:35 PMOn the plus side Trumps cosying up to Putin is a kick in the stomach to the British that have been complicit in US war crimes for years... lapdogs
And what about all the Trump supporting Unionists who like to claim Ireland is protected from a Russian attack by the RAF. Sure Putin is now a grand lad who was only minding his own business when dictator Zelensky started a war. Any word yet from Submarine Steve.
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 20, 2025, 12:44:35 PMOn the plus side Trumps cosying up to Putin is a kick in the stomach to the British that have been complicit in US war crimes for years... lapdogs
Have to say, I'm enjoying seeing the Brits squirming over what is going on, utterly impotent. That odious **** Starmer is very quiet, completely clueless about how to react to events. After his support for a genocide and his craven kowtowing to the Zionist Nazis, karma is proving to be a bitch.
Quote from: red hander on February 20, 2025, 02:21:25 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 20, 2025, 12:44:35 PMOn the plus side Trumps cosying up to Putin is a kick in the stomach to the British that have been complicit in US war crimes for years... lapdogs
Have to say, I'm enjoying seeing the Brits squirming over what is going on, utterly impotent. That odious **** Starmer is very quiet, completely clueless about how to react to events. After his support for a genocide and his craven kowtowing to the Zionist Nazis, karma is proving to be a bitch.
You might not be that fond of the Brits but you are completely wrong about their response, see examples below. It has been quite clear and explicit.
Starmer #1 - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/zelensky-dictator-trump-keir-starmer-ukraine-war-b2701397.html
Starmer #2 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/16/keir-starmer-ready-to-put-british-troops-in-ukraine/
Starmet #3 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/19/ukraine-peacekeeping-plan-starmer-will-present-trump/
UK Minister of Defence https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t
Quote from: red hander on February 20, 2025, 02:21:25 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 20, 2025, 12:44:35 PMOn the plus side Trumps cosying up to Putin is a kick in the stomach to the British that have been complicit in US war crimes for years... lapdogs
Have to say, I'm enjoying seeing the Brits squirming over what is going on, utterly impotent. That odious **** Starmer is very quiet, completely clueless about how to react to events. After his support for a genocide and his craven kowtowing to the Zionist Nazis, karma is proving to be a bitch.
The "special" relationship if such a thing existed is in the bin with Trump and the Brits are struggling with how to respond but Starmer is due in the states next week to lick Trumps hole good and proper if he can get past the big nappy.
The absolute state of the comments in here salivating at Trump throwing Ukraine to the wolves so that the Brits get a poke in the eye.
It seems lost on you all that Ukraine has suffered and is still suffering from colonialism in a similar way to that which Ireland suffered under the British.
But hey...
Trump will soon try to ethnically cleanse Gaza and that'll also upend the Brits.. Ha Ha Ha! So funny!
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 04:18:00 PMThe absolute state of the comments in here salivating at Trump throwing Ukraine to the wolves so that the Brits get a poke in the eye.
It seems lost on you all that Ukraine has suffered and is still suffering from colonialism in a similar way to that which Ireland suffered under the British.
But hey...
Trump will soon try to ethnically cleanse Gaza and that'll also upend the Brits.. Ha Ha Ha! So funny!
I have no time for Trump, I have every sympathy for Ukraine, but your simple black and white reading of situation and inability to recognise provocative role your beloved west played in stoking war is sad. No criticism of that, no criticism of Azov Nazis in Donbas, yet you throw the old ethnic cleansing trope around like confetti.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 04:18:00 PMThe absolute state of the comments in here salivating at Trump throwing Ukraine to the wolves so that the Brits get a poke in the eye.
It seems lost on you all that Ukraine has suffered and is still suffering from colonialism in a similar way to that which Ireland suffered under the British.
But hey...
Trump will soon try to ethnically cleanse Gaza and that'll also upend the Brits.. Ha Ha Ha! So funny!
Russia is bad shower no doubt but if you keep poking a bear...
So Ukraine has no right to determine it's own future and integration, if desired, into western Europe? It can only operate within limits set by the Russians?
Maybe the Brits were right all along with their conduct in Ireland.
Quote from: red hander on February 20, 2025, 04:51:08 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 04:18:00 PMThe absolute state of the comments in here salivating at Trump throwing Ukraine to the wolves so that the Brits get a poke in the eye.
It seems lost on you all that Ukraine has suffered and is still suffering from colonialism in a similar way to that which Ireland suffered under the British.
But hey...
Trump will soon try to ethnically cleanse Gaza and that'll also upend the Brits.. Ha Ha Ha! So funny!
I have no time for Trump, I have every sympathy for Ukraine, but your simple black and white reading of situation and inability to recognise provocative role your beloved west played in stoking war is sad. No criticism of that, no criticism of Azov Nazis in Donbas, yet you throw the old ethnic cleansing trope around like confetti.
No black and white here, I just spend my time demolishing Russian lies and disinformation peddled by the gullible, who watch 5 min YouTube or TikTok vids, suck it all up and regurgitate it on here. It's easy work though time consuming but hey ho.
Let's go through your BS step by step.
Tell me all about the role the west played in stoking war.
You have the floor.
p.s. what ethnic cleansing 'trope' am I throwing about like confetti?
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 20, 2025, 05:18:16 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 04:18:00 PMThe absolute state of the comments in here salivating at Trump throwing Ukraine to the wolves so that the Brits get a poke in the eye.
It seems lost on you all that Ukraine has suffered and is still suffering from colonialism in a similar way to that which Ireland suffered under the British.
But hey...
Trump will soon try to ethnically cleanse Gaza and that'll also upend the Brits.. Ha Ha Ha! So funny!
Russia is bad shower no doubt but if you keep poking a bear...
Oh I really disturbed the closet pro-Russian GAA Board nest with my post. Another one.
The same invitation to you.
Tell me all about how the 'bear was poked'.
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2025, 05:21:54 PMSo Ukraine has no right to determine it's own future and integration, if desired, into western Europe? It can only operate within limits set by the Russians?
Maybe the Brits were right all along with their conduct in Ireland.
Nailed it.
Just a few more Irish fake anti-imperialist hypocrites showing their true colours.
You can just see them now in the drawing room with with their brandy and cigars peering at a globe discussing 'spheres of interest'.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 05:55:43 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 20, 2025, 05:18:16 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 04:18:00 PMThe absolute state of the comments in here salivating at Trump throwing Ukraine to the wolves so that the Brits get a poke in the eye.
It seems lost on you all that Ukraine has suffered and is still suffering from colonialism in a similar way to that which Ireland suffered under the British.
But hey...
Trump will soon try to ethnically cleanse Gaza and that'll also upend the Brits.. Ha Ha Ha! So funny!
Russia is bad shower no doubt but if you keep poking a bear...
Oh I really disturbed the closet pro-Russian GAA Board nest with my post. Another one.
The same invitation to you.
Tell me all about how the 'bear was poked'.
Def not a Red! It was known that Ukraine pressing for NATO membership would mean war. 2019: Zelensky adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said "our price for joining NATO is a big war with Russia". US thought it would lead to fall of Russian regime. Hasn't quite worked out with Trump now sidling up to Putin. US-UK-Russia all cut from the same cloth. Imperialists. So is no comment above supporting Russia... just good to see US doing the dirt on their UK lapdogs. The world is cowped!
Quote from: J70 on February 20, 2025, 05:21:54 PMSo Ukraine has no right to determine it's own future and integration, if desired, into western Europe? It can only operate within limits set by the Russians?
Maybe the Brits were right all along with their conduct in Ireland.
This
Some of the lads on here seem to have no memory of local matters. The Brits look very restrained on how they dealt with being "poked"
Russia trying to push sumy again, trying to encircle ukraines kursk offensive bridgades or just cut off the supply roads to kursk. No big gains, in other areas,
Russian Advance = 82.80km2
Ukrainian Advance = 1.89km2
16/02-17/02
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 05:53:09 PMQuote from: red hander on February 20, 2025, 04:51:08 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 04:18:00 PMThe absolute state of the comments in here salivating at Trump throwing Ukraine to the wolves so that the Brits get a poke in the eye.
It seems lost on you all that Ukraine has suffered and is still suffering from colonialism in a similar way to that which Ireland suffered under the British.
But hey...
Trump will soon try to ethnically cleanse Gaza and that'll also upend the Brits.. Ha Ha Ha! So funny!
I have no time for Trump, I have every sympathy for Ukraine, but your simple black and white reading of situation and inability to recognise provocative role your beloved west played in stoking war is sad. No criticism of that, no criticism of Azov Nazis in Donbas, yet you throw the old ethnic cleansing trope around like confetti.
No black and white here, I just spend my time demolishing Russian lies and disinformation peddled by the gullible, who watch 5 min YouTube or TikTok vids, suck it all up and regurgitate it on here. It's easy work though time consuming but hey ho.
Let's go through your BS step by step.
Tell me all about the role the west played in stoking war.
You have the floor.
p.s. what ethnic cleansing 'trope' am I throwing about like confetti?
Take a chill pill oh hero of truth and justice. What about demolishing some western lies and disinformation? Stop being so f**king patronising about people who have a different opinion than you and can see both sides of story. Your bluster is just a smokescreen for your completely simplistic take on what's happening.
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 20, 2025, 06:11:56 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 05:55:43 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 20, 2025, 05:18:16 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 04:18:00 PMThe absolute state of the comments in here salivating at Trump throwing Ukraine to the wolves so that the Brits get a poke in the eye.
It seems lost on you all that Ukraine has suffered and is still suffering from colonialism in a similar way to that which Ireland suffered under the British.
But hey...
Trump will soon try to ethnically cleanse Gaza and that'll also upend the Brits.. Ha Ha Ha! So funny!
Russia is bad shower no doubt but if you keep poking a bear...
Oh I really disturbed the closet pro-Russian GAA Board nest with my post. Another one.
The same invitation to you.
Tell me all about how the 'bear was poked'.
Def not a Red! It was known that Ukraine pressing for NATO membership would mean war. 2019: Zelensky adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said "our price for joining NATO is a big war with Russia". US thought it would lead to fall of Russian regime. Hasn't quite worked out with Trump now sidling up to Putin. US-UK-Russia all cut from the same cloth. Imperialists. So is no comment above supporting Russia... just good to see US doing the dirt on their UK lapdogs. The world is cowped!
Interesting that you've chosen that quote from Oleksiy Arestovych. It looks to me like you've been reading Russian propaganda from Jeffrey Sachs. It's one of his favourites - always taken out of context of course.
The context: Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and was already at war in 2019 so let's not pretend that the war started in 2022. Arestovych argued that the Russian takeover of Ukraine was going to be slow and inevitable (within 10 years) unless Ukraine joined NATO but that joining NATO may lead to a bigger war.
The reason that your thinking (and Jeffrey's) is twisted and perverse is:
1. Ukraine is a sovereign independent nation.
2. Russia does not have a veto over Ukraine or any other country's alliances. If you think differently you're an imperialist.
3. If pursuing NATO membership is 'provoking war' it's only because a large imperial bully is illegally threatening war if they do so.
4. If you blame Ukraine for the war for pursuing protection within NATO you're engaged in victim blaming, pure and simple. No other way to dress it up.
5. Russia fears NATO the way a burglar fears alarms, locks and security guards. No other reason.
6. Russia does not fear a military invasion by NATO and never has done. It has reduced its military on the border with Finland and removed anti-aircraft systems from Kaliningrad (surrounded by NATO since 2004) Russia's concerns about NATO are a lie.
7. Russia has nuclear weapons. Biden et al shit themselves every time they rattled this sabre and we're expected to believe NATO is a threat to Russia.
8. Russia's actions and rhetoric since Feb 2022 have revealed what the war is really about: destruction of the Ukrainian state and nationhood.
9. That goal will not change with the outcome of whatever fake peace Trump tries to force Ukraine to accept.
Quote from: red hander on February 20, 2025, 09:27:07 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 05:53:09 PMQuote from: red hander on February 20, 2025, 04:51:08 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on February 20, 2025, 04:18:00 PMThe absolute state of the comments in here salivating at Trump throwing Ukraine to the wolves so that the Brits get a poke in the eye.
It seems lost on you all that Ukraine has suffered and is still suffering from colonialism in a similar way to that which Ireland suffered under the British.
But hey...
Trump will soon try to ethnically cleanse Gaza and that'll also upend the Brits.. Ha Ha Ha! So funny!
I have no time for Trump, I have every sympathy for Ukraine, but your simple black and white reading of situation and inability to recognise provocative role your beloved west played in stoking war is sad. No criticism of that, no criticism of Azov Nazis in Donbas, yet you throw the old ethnic cleansing trope around like confetti.
No black and white here, I just spend my time demolishing Russian lies and disinformation peddled by the gullible, who watch 5 min YouTube or TikTok vids, suck it all up and regurgitate it on here. It's easy work though time consuming but hey ho.
Let's go through your BS step by step.
Tell me all about the role the west played in stoking war.
You have the floor.
p.s. what ethnic cleansing 'trope' am I throwing about like confetti?
Take a chill pill oh hero of truth and justice. What about demolishing some western lies and disinformation? Stop being so f**king patronising about people who have a different opinion than you and can see both sides of story. Your bluster is just a smokescreen for your completely simplistic take on what's happening.
Aww touched a nerve have I? Not nice being called out for your BS is it.
I've given you the floor to present the Russian side of the story but you appear to be declining. Go for it, I'm listening.
The thing is, I've heard it all before. None of it stands up to any scrutiny.
It's actually the 'both sides' argument that is simplistic, coming as it is from people too lazy to apply any critical thinking to what is being presented to them on the 5 min video from the GrayZone or whomever.
Everyone laughs at the gullible MAGA crowd lapping up whatever shite Trump tells them. Well, Irish fake anti-imperialists such as yourself are little better - believe everything, question nothing.
So off you go. Tell me all about the Russian side of the story.
p.s. I loved your 'ho ho at least it got it up the Brits' nuanced analysis. I'd say that's probably your lane.
You're just not allowed to put forward different long widely put forward arguments that these sorts of geopolitical turbulence is always bit more complex that the black and white take from the likes of Gerry. He's literally the troll from Billy Goats Gruff ... no one is allowed to cross his bridge :)
Quote from: theskull1 on February 21, 2025, 12:12:07 PMYou're just not allowed to put forward different long widely put forward arguments that these sorts of geopolitical turbulence is always bit more complex that the black and white take from the likes of Gerry. He's literally the troll from Billy Goats Gruff ... no one is allowed to cross his bridge :)
Not a single pro-Russian argument put forward by yourself or others has stood up to even basic scrutiny.
When the arguments presented by you are countered, you disappear. The reappear in a few weeks, making the same argument. Again. And again. And again.
p.s. you made some rather vague statements about the 'truth' of the holocaust recently and when challenged ran away from that too. It's all you do.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 21, 2025, 12:12:07 PMYou're just not allowed to put forward different long widely put forward arguments that these sorts of geopolitical turbulence is always bit more complex that the black and white take from the likes of Gerry. He's literally the troll from Billy Goats Gruff ... no one is allowed to cross his bridge :)
He's asking you to put forward your arguments. It is you that is declining to do so. Set out your stall and see if it will stand up to a bit of scrutiny.
Russia has been accused of mass execution of Ukrainian prisoners of war
Putin's goal is to wipe out Ukrainian identity.
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2025, 01:26:45 PMRussia has been accused of mass execution of Ukrainian prisoners of war
Putin's goal is to wipe out Ukrainian identity.
Correct - everything else is a smokescreen.
Meanwhile in Kherson - the random drone terrorism against the civilian population continues. People can't go about their daily business without fear of being murdered in the street. Drones hunt anything that moves.
Hey, pop quiz for the closet pro-Russians on here...what language do most Ukrainians in Kherson speak?
Hint: it's the people the Russians say they are coming to save from persecution. Remember that old chestnut!
You already know I'm convinced by the analysis of John Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs.... no need for a nobody like me to rehash their take.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 21, 2025, 12:12:07 PMYou're just not allowed to put forward different long widely put forward arguments that these sorts of geopolitical turbulence is always bit more complex that the black and white take from the likes of Gerry. He's literally the troll from Billy Goats Gruff ... no one is allowed to cross his bridge :)
It's interesting you don't apply your logic for the Israel-Palestine conflict here.
- Hamas knew October 7th would result in devastating reprisals
- Israel duly obliged
- Palestinians know Israel will never accept any perceived threat to its people or territory
- Refusing to comply, treat or surrender will only result in more bloodshed, therefore they should just accept the new status quo
- Refusal to do so means the bloodshed is on Palestinian hands, not Israel's.
That's how it works in your book, yes? I wonder whatever could be the difference here.
Russia always trampled over the Ukraine, no bigger example that the famine of the 1930's. Nato only need the big boys to work, it's the smaller states depend on protection from them. If we were located nxt to Russia, we be running looking into NATO too. Russia acts the way GB used to run roughshod over Ireland centuries ago, and just over 100yrs since they partially pissed off.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 21, 2025, 05:28:59 PMYou already know I'm convinced by the analysis of John Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs.... no need for a nobody like me to rehash their take.
You're lazy, prejudiced, have zero critical thinking skills and outsource your thinking to others. Well done.
I've watched many Jeffrey Sachs interviews. Every one of them is full of the same falsehoods and misrepresentations.
If you're convinced by Mearsheimer then you're an apologist for imperialism. Yet you present yourself on here as an anti-imperialist. We all know the name for that. But more recently, in order to square that circle you find yourself able to try on America's imperial shoes and find them 'understandable'.
Here's a challenge for you. Reply to Gallsman above and let's see you apply some of that Mearsheimer 'realism' that you subscribe to so much and try on a nice pair of Israeli shoes. Let us all know how those shoes feel. When you use Mearsheimer logic you can justify any crime or atrocity and blame the victim.
Go for it.
Quote from: gallsman on February 21, 2025, 05:57:58 PMQuote from: theskull1 on February 21, 2025, 12:12:07 PMYou're just not allowed to put forward different long widely put forward arguments that these sorts of geopolitical turbulence is always bit more complex that the black and white take from the likes of Gerry. He's literally the troll from Billy Goats Gruff ... no one is allowed to cross his bridge :)
It's interesting you don't apply your logic for the Israel-Palestine conflict here.
- Hamas knew October 7th would result in devastating reprisals
- Israel duly obliged
- Palestinians know Israel will never accept any perceived threat to its people or territory
- Refusing to comply, treat or surrender will only result in more bloodshed, therefore they should just accept the new status quo
- Refusal to do so means the bloodshed is on Palestinian hands, not Israel's.
That's how it works in your book, yes? I wonder whatever could be the difference here.
This will probably have Skull diving into the bushes for a week or two.
He'll pop up later with a new (old) YouTube video imploring us all to 'give it a go'.
It now appears that Trump and Musk are threatening Ukraine with the the shut off of Starlink if they don't sign a deal on minerals.
Blackmail pure and simple.
https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-access-starlink-internet-services-over-minerals-say-2025-02-22/
As I keep saying.... explaining is not excusing.
Time will tell how the Ukrainians feel about what took place here and what might have been if more straight up diplomacy had been employed in the early stages. Personally I think a lot of the ordinary Ukrainians will see that they were played/used by the West. Certainly when you see the squeeze the US is putting on them at the moment, they'll very much be getting that sense now that the big powers are seeking to divide up the scraps. What a sorry tragic tale and needless loss of many hundreds of thousands of lives..... all good from a LNG export, Military industrial complex and Blackrock perspective though. I'm very cynical about the perverse incentives which exist on the Western side... the lack of diplomatic efforts to work a deal looked very strange to me from the get go. Looks very much like they're cashing in their chips and Ukraine is footing the bill
U don't know what Ukrainians are thinking u clown. Your the biggest bullshitter on the board, and that hard to beat considering some of the old posters on the US politics thread.
Hundreds and thousands of lives could have been saved had Russia decided not to invade.. they were not liberating
From 10 years ago... pretty poignant
Investigative journalist Robert Parry talks about Russia's move to invade Ukraine's Crimean peninusla and the role of the US and the west in fomenting crisis there.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 22, 2025, 10:02:21 AMAs I keep saying.... explaining is not excusing.
Time will tell how the Ukrainians feel about what took place here and what might have been if more straight up diplomacy had been employed in the early stages. Personally I think a lot of the ordinary Ukrainians will see that they were played/used by the West. Certainly when you see the squeeze the US is putting on them at the moment, they'll very much be getting that sense now that the big powers are seeking to divide up the scraps. What a sorry tragic tale and needless loss of many hundreds of thousands of lives..... all good from a LNG export, Military industrial complex and Blackrock perspective though. I'm very cynical about the perverse incentives which exist on the Western side... the lack of diplomatic efforts to work a deal looked very strange to me from the get go. Looks very much like they're cashing in their chips and Ukraine is footing the bill
So much BS to get through, your BS and Mearsheimers BS.
First of all, save your vomit inducing crocodile tears about the needless deaths. You spread propaganda for the Russians, the aggressor, the invader. That damns you. You have Ukrainian blood on your hands, as complicit as any Russian propagandist in a Russian TV studio. Your reach is miniscule but you're doing the same work. That blood will never wash off.
We know where you got your little soundbite from, the mad German owl woman. You thought it sounded so clever but you're fooling no one. Every time you attempt to explain Russia's actions you're excusing them. You found it 'understandable' a few posts back, remember?. And something else, you've never criticised Russia's actions. Not once. Not the indiscriminate bombings, the use of thermobaric munitions against the civilian population of Mariupol, the rape of men, women and children, the murder, rape, torture, beheading and castration of POWs. You've had nothing to say about any of it because your ideology allows you to shrug it off, as with Syria.
You state you were suspicious of the lack of diplomatic effort from the western side before the start of the war. Again no mention of Russia. You're a f**king joker. Russia had already built up their invading force and were demanding the NATO roll back to 1997 limits. That is, something they knew was NEVER going to happen. In other words, war could not be stopped by western diplomacy. Everyone implored them not to invade but they thought they could Blitzkreig Ukraine. They thought wrong and their mighty crack forces landed at Holostomel and were wiped out immediately.
And in any case, this war is not about a NATO threat to Russia. It is a lie. NATO meant safety and security from Russia. Well, it used to, now it means nothing with Trump in power in the US.
Which brings me on to Mearsheimer, he is little more than a pitiful Russian shill at this stage. Russian advances at the front have been so slow it would take 83 years to conquer Ukraine at this rate. And not only that, it has slowed down to almost nothing. Russia holds about 20% of Ukraine, yet somehow Mersheimer thinks they will have 30-40% within a year. Fantasy. PM is not a good interviewer, he doesn't have the knowledge to push back against these bullshitters.
Similarly with troop recruitment, he tries to paint over the fact that Russia also has a manpower issue and had to ask NK for troop assistance.
Mearsheimer is also persisting with this 'ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine' fallacy. He is a smart man so he must know it's not true. Russian speaking Ukrainians are no more Russian than you or I are Englishmen. Every Ukrainian I know speaks Russian and they despise Russia. 'Despise' doesn't even some close actually.
Ukraine hasn't been played by the west. Europe was weak and the US was too cautious. This war could and should have been over by now. As it is, they now appear to be in the process of being betrayed by Trump. Not only that but Trump is attempting a criminal shakedown while they fight for their lives.
As for your prediction of what Ukrainians think or even more ridiculously what they will think in the future.....WW called it correctly, you're a clown.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 22, 2025, 07:16:01 PMFrom 10 years ago... pretty poignant
Investigative journalist Robert Parry talks about Russia's move to invade Ukraine's Crimean peninusla and the role of the US and the west in fomenting crisis there.
Thankfully I didn't have to waste much time with this one.
I did laugh though when the college student masquerading as an interviewer said 'Russia has invaded Crimea, ESCALATING TENSIONS'.
Parry states that 'International law is in the eye of the beholder.' Nope sorry Robert. It's very clear.
And he, like Holohoax, doesn't know what a coup d'etat is.
It's a rehash of the CIA coup nonsense that has been debunked time and again.
Let's be clear, Yanukovych was still president when he ran to Moscow because he was about to be impeached.
He betrayed his voters by reneging on his election promises, refusing to sign the deal he brokered and parliament ratified. He was also corrupt and stole BILLIONS. The corruption alone should have seen him gone.
It's always the same with Holohoax, he just posts the same tired old shite. Over and over and over.
Just ignore me Gerry.
Posting this to anyone who's doesn't see this conflict to be as black and white as our trustworthy media has curated it.
Jeffrey Sachs is an American economist, academic, and public policy analyst known for his work on economic development, poverty reduction, and sustainability. He has advised governments and international organizations, including the UN, on economic policies. Sachs played a key role in the transition of post-Soviet economies to market systems and was a leading advocate for the UN's Millennium Development Goals. Currently, he is a professor at Columbia University and directs the Center for Sustainable Development.
Thanks to MEP Michael von der Schulenburg for organising the event.
'Just ignore me Gerry'
You'd love that wouldn't you. Not a chance Holohoax.
I'm here to counteract your BS.
Here is a suggestion for you...
If you want to convince anybody - why not try to counteract a single one of my arguments?
You don't try because you can't. You can't because I'm telling the truth of what actually happened.
Today marks the 3rd Anniversary of the launch of Russia's full scale brutal invasion of Ukraine.
Andrei Illarionov, economist and former senior advisor to Putin, now dissident, outlines what he believes Ukraine needs for real security against Russia:
https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1893948830363590896
It's 17 minutes long but very much worth a listen.
https://www.ft.com/content/603ba62c-73b2-4e14-846d-e3825c79bf56
Starmer announced that £1.6bn of British export guarantees would be provided to supply more than 5,000 air defence missiles for Ukraine, to be made in Belfast
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2025, 08:39:12 PMhttps://www.ft.com/content/603ba62c-73b2-4e14-846d-e3825c79bf56
Starmer announced that £1.6bn of British export guarantees would be provided to supply more than 5,000 air defence missiles for Ukraine, to be made in Belfast
~£300k a pop ain't cheap.
Certainly not cheap enough to use for hitting drones.
Oh piss off u clown, we all know who started it without u posting Fake news lol
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 02, 2025, 09:43:44 PMOh piss off u clown, we all know who started it without u posting Fake news lol
You'll notice that tankies, pro-Russia, nutjobs, far-right/far-left, 'do their own research' goons keep repeating the same lies over and over.
It gets debunked, they get a hammering, they dust themselves off and say the same rubbish again a few days later.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 02, 2025, 09:43:44 PMOh piss off u clown, we all know who started it without u posting Fake news lol
He decided to go AWOL yesterday when asked a few questions, then pops up with a wee vid hoping no one notices.
Some of you sheep do me a favour and fake news Mearsheimers prediction from 10 years ago.
You don't need to have a side to acknowledge he was 100% right about how this would end up
Quote from: theskull1 on March 02, 2025, 10:58:54 PMSome of you sheep do me a favour and fake news Mearsheimers prediction from 10 years ago.
You don't need to have a side to acknowledge he was 100% right about how this would end up
Exactly right.
The West without the USA cannot stop Russia.
So for better or worse the West needs Donald Trump and his armed forces to protect them from Russia.
He refuses to engage. He made some vague statements recently about how the 'truth' of the holocaust will one day come out. Couldn't and wouldn't elaborate any further on that when asked.
Also recently stated there were 'upwards of one million' Ukrainian deaths. Don't know where he got that from and he refuses to say. Pulled it out of his arse probably, or rather Donald Trump's arse. Funny how pro-Russians have been trying to downplay the number of Ukrainian deaths for 3 years (Russia is waging such a humane war) but now when it's being used by Trump to try to bully Ukraine into capitulation, it's magically jumps to over a million.
So here he is again, popping up with the two most despicable pro-Russian liars on the internet Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate. That's Aaron 'I never claimed to be an expert on Ukraine or Russia' Mate. No shit Aaron.
And of course John Mearsheimer (again) and just waiting on the Jeffrey Sachs video for the hat trick.
Field Marshall Mearsheimer thinks Russia should have a veto on every democracy in Eastern Europe and Sachs is obsessed with a discussion specifically about NATO and the reunification of Germany in 1990, which he disingenuously takes to mean the whole of Eastern Europe (all still prisoners within the Warsaw Pact, when the discussion was taking place).
Bah!
Quote from: Windmill abu on March 02, 2025, 11:19:39 PMQuote from: theskull1 on March 02, 2025, 10:58:54 PMSome of you sheep do me a favour and fake news Mearsheimers prediction from 10 years ago.
You don't need to have a side to acknowledge he was 100% right about how this would end up
Exactly right.
The West without the USA cannot stop Russia.
So for better or worse the West needs Donald Trump and his armed forces to protect them from Russia.
Exactly wrong.
Mearsheimer went to Moscow and the Russians told him NATO is a threat to them. That's where he got his grand theory from - direct from Russia.
Except NATO is not a threat to Russia. At least not to Russia itself but to Putin's grand imperial plans.
So Mearsheimer discards international
Law and the rights of free nations to determine their future at the whim of a dictatorship like Russia because.. Russia says so.
(https://i.imgur.com/ds3yuhM.jpeg)
I engage plenty but will ignore any false dichotomies posed to try and corner a discussion. There will always be nuance required to flesh out what many here deem to be yes or no to be the only answer. Just not playing that game.
Fact check.... What AI told me about if Mearsheimer ever visited Russia (not that it changes whether his prediction was right or not
QuoteMearsheimer and Russia
There is no direct evidence in the provided context that John Mearsheimer has discussed geopolitical issues with Russians. However, his writings and theories have been endorsed and referenced by Russian officials. For instance, Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs tweeted an endorsement of Mearsheimer's 2014 article, "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West's Fault," indicating that his views resonate with Russian perspectives on the crisis
Additionally, Mearsheimer's realist analysis has been criticized for sounding similar to Russian propaganda, suggesting that his ideas have been influential in Russian narratives about the West and Ukraine This implies that while Mearsheimer may not have directly engaged in discussions with Russian officials, his work has been adopted and utilized by Russian state media and officials to support their geopolitical narratives
On the point of 1 million or 500k the fact you need to call that out as a lie rather than an exaggeration shows me you just want to be right. Even if it was just 100k died, this is no less tragic.
Tell me this fellas....
Is John Mearsheimers views on Israel to your liking?
Is Glenn Greenwalds views on Israel to your liking?
Is Jeffrey Sachs views on Israel to your liking?
Is Aaron Mates views on Israel to your liking?
You see I so happen to align very closely with the above mentioned on this topic
because I'm convinced by their integrity as human beings when I hear them discuss both Israel and Ukraine.
I look at Trumps and Bidens (throw in Victoria Nuland in there as well) loyalty to Israel and will trust nothing they have to say solely as result of their positions on this one issue
I look at Kweer Starmers (and Sunak and Johnson etc) loyalty to Israel and will trust nothing they have to say solely on this one issue
I look at Macron, Rutte, Scolz, Von Der Leyens etc loyalty to Israel and will trust nothing they have to say on any topic.
I look at the likes of commentators like Douglas Murray and see the same alligence to Israel.
How you fellas can align in any way with these Israel boot licker global elites I dunno. They are pure evil in my eyes but yet you lads can align with them on driving hundreds of thousands to their deaths without ever looking interested in securing a peace deal in Ukraine or in Gaza.
I can only assume they have something on youse?
But aligning yourself to Putin is ok?
Deflecting again Milltown.... you and the rest are in complete alignment with Israeli boot lickers when it comes to Ukraine yet somehow can suspend their groveling support of thee most evil regime on the planet.
I've stated already on this thread that I don't support anybody here but in putting forward what I see to be the valid position that this war was egged on by the West in a way that forced Russia to react (a position held by many many people), thats all it takes for the you Zelenskyy fan boys to get your panties twisted completely unable to see it as just a considered position but instead just go to full ad homenim mode. No different to a protester of Israel being defined as a supporter of terrorism or a protester of British rule being defined in the same way. Brings back GWBs old "You're either with me or with the terrorist" statement before they found their false pretext to go to war for Israel in Iraq. It's the same completely low IQ shite here from all of youse.
You'll NEVER convince me that this conflict wasnt wanted by a corrupted West and its Military industrial complex and we're in a time these same people are priming to get your son and daughters made available to go to war for them at some point in the future. I trust none of them
Simple request.
Could you all please stop quoting empty skull?
Its making my ignore list ineffective!!
Thank you!
Quote from: theskull1 on March 03, 2025, 03:03:57 AMI engage plenty but will ignore any false dichotomies posed to try and corner a discussion. There will always be nuance required to flesh out what many here deem to be yes or no to be the only answer. Just not playing that game.
Fact check.... What AI told me about if Mearsheimer ever visited Russia (not that it changes whether his prediction was right or not
QuoteMearsheimer and Russia
There is no direct evidence in the provided context that John Mearsheimer has discussed geopolitical issues with Russians. However, his writings and theories have been endorsed and referenced by Russian officials. For instance, Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs tweeted an endorsement of Mearsheimer's 2014 article, "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West's Fault," indicating that his views resonate with Russian perspectives on the crisis
Additionally, Mearsheimer's realist analysis has been criticized for sounding similar to Russian propaganda, suggesting that his ideas have been influential in Russian narratives about the West and Ukraine This implies that while Mearsheimer may not have directly engaged in discussions with Russian officials, his work has been adopted and utilized by Russian state media and officials to support their geopolitical narratives
On the point of 1 million or 500k the fact you need to call that out as a lie rather than an exaggeration shows me you just want to be right. Even if it was just 100k died, this is no less tragic.
Tell me this fellas....
Is John Mearsheimers views on Israel to your liking?
Is Glenn Greenwalds views on Israel to your liking?
Is Jeffrey Sachs views on Israel to your liking?
Is Aaron Mates views on Israel to your liking?
You see I so happen to align very closely with the above mentioned on this topic because I'm convinced by their integrity as human beings when I hear them discuss both Israel and Ukraine.
I look at Trumps and Bidens (throw in Victoria Nuland in there as well) loyalty to Israel and will trust nothing they have to say solely as result of their positions on this one issue
I look at Kweer Starmers (and Sunak and Johnson etc) loyalty to Israel and will trust nothing they have to say solely on this one issue
I look at Macron, Rutte, Scolz, Von Der Leyens etc loyalty to Israel and will trust nothing they have to say on any topic.
I look at the likes of commentators like Douglas Murray and see the same alligence to Israel.
How you fellas can align in any way with these Israel boot licker global elites I dunno. They are pure evil in my eyes but yet you lads can align with them on driving hundreds of thousands to their deaths without ever looking interested in securing a peace deal in Ukraine or in Gaza.
I can only assume they have something on youse?
Fact check....asking AI something is not a fact check. I'm not surprised you ran to AI, you're too lazy to think for yourself.
Could you outline the 'false dichotomy' that is being presented to you? Thank you.
The heart of Mearsheimer's argument is that Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO and/or the EU is an existential threat. Mearsheimer just accepts this because....Russia sees it that way.
Here is what he said:
"
Looking at the situation now with Russia and Ukraine, how do you think the world got here?I think all the trouble in this case really started in April, 2008, at the nato Summit in Bucharest, where afterward nato issued a statement that said Ukraine and Georgia would become part of nato.
The Russians made it unequivocally clear at the time that they viewed this as an existential threat, and they drew a line in the sand. Nevertheless, what has happened with the passage of time is that we have moved forward to include Ukraine in the West to make Ukraine a Western bulwark on Russia's border. Of course, this includes more than just nato expansion. nato expansion is the heart of the strategy, but it includes E.U. expansion as well, and it includes turning Ukraine into a pro-American liberal democracy, and, from a Russian perspective, this is an existential threat.
"
The Russians made it unequivocally clear. He is deriving his theory from what the Russians say. Great thinker indeed. Imagine Ukraine being a liberal democracy, yeah that would be an existential threat to Russia's dictatorship, the Russian people might like that for themselves.
As for the number of deaths in Ukraine, as I've said before, spare us your crocodile tears. You're a shill for the murderer and you have blood on your hands, just like Max and Aaron. You care as much about dead Ukrainians as you do about dead Syrians and as you do about dead Palestinians. Dead Palestinians don't count to you when they are murdered and starved to death by Assad with the assistance of Hezbollah. Blumenthal and Mate don't give a f**k about Palestinians either btw.
Russia obliterated Mariupol and other Ukrainian cities with thermobaric munitions and have caused hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. Pro-Russians online have been playing down the number of Ukrainians murdered for 3 years and now their hearts are bleeding when Trump pulled a made up figure out of his arse in order to try to shame Zelenskyy into accepting Ukrainian surrender. It's repulsive, shameful and you should be ashamed.
As for the rest about Israel, so if someone is Pro-Palestinian you accept as gospel everything they have to say on every other geopolitical matter? Got it. Great strategy.
Btw, you've been invited to apply Mearsheimers great power politics to the Israel-Gaza situation. Any thoughts on that?
p.s. where exactly did you get your 'upwards of one million figure from?. It was Trump wasn't it!
Quote from: theskull1 on March 03, 2025, 08:13:13 AMDeflecting again Milltown.... you and the rest are in complete alignment with Israeli boot lickers when it comes to Ukraine yet somehow can suspend their groveling support of thee most evil regime on the planet.
I've stated already on this thread that I don't support anybody here but in putting forward what I see to be the valid position that this war was egged on by the West in a way that forced Russia to react (a position held by many many people), thats all it takes for the you Zelenskyy fan boys to get your panties twisted completely unable to see it as just a considered position but instead just go to full ad homenim mode. No different to a protester of Israel being defined as a supporter of terrorism or a protester of British rule being defined in the same way. Brings back GWBs old "You're either with me or with the terrorist" statement before they found their false pretext to go to war for Israel in Iraq. It's the same completely low IQ shite here from all of youse.
You'll NEVER convince me that this conflict wasnt wanted by a corrupted West and its Military industrial complex and we're in a time these same people are priming to get your son and daughters made available to go to war for them at some point in the future. I trust none of them
Trying to convince you of anything would be like trying to convince a MAGA of something. You're cut from the same cloth.
I'm not trying to convince you of a single thing, I'm just here to counter every single shred of pro-Russian propaganda and bullshit you're peddling.
Quote from: theskull1 on March 03, 2025, 08:13:13 AMDeflecting again Milltown.... you and the rest are in complete alignment with Israeli boot lickers when it comes to Ukraine yet somehow can suspend their groveling support of thee most evil regime on the planet.
I've stated already on this thread that I don't support anybody here but in putting forward what I see to be the valid position that this war was egged on by the West in a way that forced Russia to react (a position held by many many people), thats all it takes for the you Zelenskyy fan boys to get your panties twisted completely unable to see it as just a considered position but instead just go to full ad homenim mode. No different to a protester of Israel being defined as a supporter of terrorism or a protester of British rule being defined in the same way. Brings back GWBs old "You're either with me or with the terrorist" statement before they found their false pretext to go to war for Israel in Iraq. It's the same completely low IQ shite here from all of youse.
You'll NEVER convince me that this conflict wasnt wanted by a corrupted West and its Military industrial complex and we're in a time these same people are priming to get your son and daughters made available to go to war for them at some point in the future. I trust none of them
This is why people disagree with you. Russia "forced" into the war FFS. To even come out with that sh!te.
As said above Russia were "forced" into it because you believe the starting point that Russia should be allowed to determine what happens in other countries. That's a fallacy to begin with.
You can't grasp that most people understand the US are corrupted. There'll be few arguments about that. But again most have high enough IQ to be able to analyse what has happened independently and make a decision. Unlike you and your West bad, aggressive former superpower good bullish!t. You chat about low IQ's and then resort to videos and AI. I mean come on ffs, 🤦
I struggling with understanding the time investment that some people have! It's grand to post and put your brain farts into a text but seriously there is some Olympic effort goes into either defending/explaining/excusing corrupt countries that will have absolutely no real involvement in your lives, your real lives.
If you never had twitter/insta/social media/TikTok and so on life would be much better now with AI its going to open up a serious amount of rabbit holes for people to go into
Resorting to AI to find out an answer to a question is low IQ... really? When did the internet agree that?
And just cause your brain can't seem to work it out doesn't make it a fallacy.
You know right well if for example in the event that Russia started becoming embedded within Mexicos political system, the US wouldn't be having any of it to the point of invading them if they felt the need to .... you know they would but just can't allow yourself to admit that the big dog on the other side would be thinking the same way. I can't do anything about that blindspot.
OK so you agree that the US and the EU leadership are corrupt but somehow are able to suspend that belief and go all in in their 'but trust me bro on Ukraine'. I don't trust them full stop.
And I'll repeat again for the upteenth time... what is it with you guys and this black and white one side good means other side has to be bad mental construct your following?
News flash.. both parties can have nefarious intentions. But hey that's all it takes to be 'with the terrorist' in these times.
I'll not disagree with Milltown on the time investment... can't help but laugh at the boy saying though.... how far ahead in the all time post count stats are you now MR ::)
.... and by the way you're still deflecting
This bit.... I don't see how you think this. When does something become real to you? Economically this war is affecting Europe negatively. You'd agree with that surely and there's more and more noises being made by our elites about Europe getting their act together militarily speaking. Is that not real?
Quoteeffort goes into either defending/explaining/excusing corrupt countries that will have absolutely no real involvement in your lives, your real lives.
the
As I said thoughts put on the board takes seconds, reading, watching videos and quotations and all the other stuff takes a hell of amount of time, it took me 20 seconds to compose this lol
Missles to be made in Belfast that the Brits are giving to Ukraine...
Mearsheimer's thesis is basically this - if you're the big boy bully you can do whatever you want. International Law doesn't matter. Democracy doesn't matter. Military force is all that matters.
Skull likes to opine about Mearsheimer's thesis in order to justify Russian invasion, barbarism and genocide and blame the victim. He is however very, very selective indeed about the application of Mearsheimer principles.
He likes to apply it to a hypothetical American invasion of Mexico and would find it 'understandable' if the US invaded Mexico. The rest of us would condemn the US of course but the anti-imperialist Skull wouldn't. Presumably, even if that involved the US flattening Juarez and numerous other Mexican cities, annexing baja California, murdering civilians in the tens of thousands, rape, murder of POWs, kidnapping and erasure of identities of children and all the rest, as Russia have done.
These are the hoops he is willing to jump through and the twists and turns he will make in order to justify the unjustifiable.
Skull also steadfastly refuses to apply Mearsheamer's Principles to Israel. Israel is the big boy in the ME. It has nuclear weapons. It has 'security concerns'. Palestine is aligned with, armed and financed by Iran, Israel's enemy. Understandable if unfortunately, they are 'forced' to flatten Gaza, right Skull? Iran was 'egging on' the Palestinians, right? Anyone who supports the Palestinians and their right to self-determination is engaging in 'black and white', 'good guy, bad guy' thinking are they not? Hmm Skull?
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 11:10:28 AMMissles to be made in Belfast that the Brits are giving to Ukraine...
So Belfast will become a legitimate target to the Russians?.
Quote from: clarshack on March 03, 2025, 11:17:09 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 11:10:28 AMMissles to be made in Belfast that the Brits are giving to Ukraine...
So Belfast will become a legitimate target to the Russians?.
Russia is engaging in an illegal war so there are zero 'legitimate targets' either here or in Ukraine.
Maybe they'll leave Ukraine and the money can be spent on the NHS.
Quote from: theskull1 on March 03, 2025, 09:48:53 AMResorting to AI to find out an answer to a question is low IQ... really? When did the internet agree that?
And just cause your brain can't seem to work it out doesn't make it a fallacy.
You know right well if for example in the event that Russia started becoming embedded within Mexicos political system, the US wouldn't be having any of it to the point of invading them if they felt the need to .... you know they would but just can't allow yourself to admit that the big dog on the other side would be thinking the same way. I can't do anything about that blindspot.
OK so you agree that the US and the EU leadership are corrupt but somehow are able to suspend that belief and go all in in their 'but trust me bro on Ukraine'. I don't trust them full stop.
And I'll repeat again for the upteenth time... what is it with you guys and this black and white one side good means other side has to be bad mental construct your following?
News flash.. both parties can have nefarious intentions. But hey that's all it takes to be 'with the terrorist' in these times.
I'll not disagree with Milltown on the time investment... can't help but laugh at the boy saying though.... how far ahead in the all time post count stats are you now MR ::)
.... and by the way you're still deflecting
This bit.... I don't see how you think this. When does something become real to you? Economically this war is affecting Europe negatively. You'd agree with that surely and there's more and more noises being made by our elites about Europe getting their act together militarily speaking. Is that not real?
Quoteeffort goes into either defending/explaining/excusing corrupt countries that will have absolutely no real involvement in your lives, your real lives.
the
This is where your ideas fall down. If The US start invading Mexico, then I would call that out too. However in your case, you would never support the US's right to do that cause they're the US. Therefore highlighting your hypocrisy. I'm not having issues with black and white. There's always truth, lies and misinformation. I just don't agree in any way with your reading that Russia were forced into this. And you e put nothing forward, in video or text that would argue that in any way.
Using AI to answer because you can't answer it yourself says everything imo.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 03, 2025, 11:28:51 AMQuote from: theskull1 on March 03, 2025, 09:48:53 AMResorting to AI to find out an answer to a question is low IQ... really? When did the internet agree that?
And just cause your brain can't seem to work it out doesn't make it a fallacy.
You know right well if for example in the event that Russia started becoming embedded within Mexicos political system, the US wouldn't be having any of it to the point of invading them if they felt the need to .... you know they would but just can't allow yourself to admit that the big dog on the other side would be thinking the same way. I can't do anything about that blindspot.
OK so you agree that the US and the EU leadership are corrupt but somehow are able to suspend that belief and go all in in their 'but trust me bro on Ukraine'. I don't trust them full stop.
And I'll repeat again for the upteenth time... what is it with you guys and this black and white one side good means other side has to be bad mental construct your following?
News flash.. both parties can have nefarious intentions. But hey that's all it takes to be 'with the terrorist' in these times.
I'll not disagree with Milltown on the time investment... can't help but laugh at the boy saying though.... how far ahead in the all time post count stats are you now MR ::)
.... and by the way you're still deflecting
This bit.... I don't see how you think this. When does something become real to you? Economically this war is affecting Europe negatively. You'd agree with that surely and there's more and more noises being made by our elites about Europe getting their act together militarily speaking. Is that not real?
Quoteeffort goes into either defending/explaining/excusing corrupt countries that will have absolutely no real involvement in your lives, your real lives.
the
This is where your ideas fall down. If The US start invading Mexico, then I would call that out too. However in your case, you would never support the US's right to do that cause they're the US. Therefore highlighting your hypocrisy. I'm not having issues with black and white. There's always truth, lies and misinformation. I just don't agree in any way with your reading that Russia were forced into this. And you e put nothing forward, in video or text that would argue that in any way.
Using AI to answer because you can't answer it yourself says everything imo.
You would think so, but you'd be wrong because in order to give Russia a pass on the indefensible, Skull is on record as saying he would find it 'understandable' if the US did the same to Mexico.
He has to in order to justify what the Russians are doing. He only wants to justify what the Russians are doing because he opposes the US but laughably, he has to give the US a pass as well. All under the guise of being a peace loving anti-imperial humanitarian.
You can still charge him with hypocrisy though, because you can use all Mearsheimer's bullshit to justify Israel flattening Gaza (or anything really for that matter).
What about it Skull, those Iranians 'egged on' the Palestinians, didn't they?
Quote from: clarshack on March 03, 2025, 11:17:09 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 11:10:28 AMMissles to be made in Belfast that the Brits are giving to Ukraine...
So Belfast will become a legitimate target to the Russians?.
I'd don't think it will come as huge surprise to the Russian intelligence that these Thales missiles will be made on the Castlereagh Road in Belfast, it's hardly a top secret operation and have already been used by Ukraine in this war.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2025, 01:54:39 PMQuote from: clarshack on March 03, 2025, 11:17:09 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 11:10:28 AMMissles to be made in Belfast that the Brits are giving to Ukraine...
So Belfast will become a legitimate target to the Russians?.
I'd don't think it will come as huge surprise to the Russian intelligence that these Thales missiles will be made on the Castlereagh Road in Belfast, it's hardly a top secret operation and have already been used by Ukraine in this war.
Apache choppers were built in Shorts too... 200 hundred jobs on the way so good all round for that industry of death and destruction!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2025, 03:42:56 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2025, 01:54:39 PMQuote from: clarshack on March 03, 2025, 11:17:09 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 11:10:28 AMMissles to be made in Belfast that the Brits are giving to Ukraine...
So Belfast will become a legitimate target to the Russians?.
I'd don't think it will come as huge surprise to the Russian intelligence that these Thales missiles will be made on the Castlereagh Road in Belfast, it's hardly a top secret operation and have already been used by Ukraine in this war.
Apache choppers were built in Shorts too... 200 hundred jobs on the way so good all round for that industry of death and destruction!
I wonder if Jim Shannon knew that?
He'd be trying to sell parts to Apartheid South Africa in return for a few pistols otherwise.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on March 03, 2025, 11:19:44 AMQuote from: clarshack on March 03, 2025, 11:17:09 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 11:10:28 AMMissles to be made in Belfast that the Brits are giving to Ukraine...
So Belfast will become a legitimate target to the Russians?.
Russia is engaging in an illegal war so there are zero 'legitimate targets' either here or in Ukraine.
Maybe they'll leave Ukraine and the money can be spent on the NHS.
Why, did they put that money pre-Ukraine into the NHS?
Funny that they always seem to find money for war.
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 03, 2025, 06:40:32 PMFunny that they always seem to find money for war.
It is not "funny", a crisis either personal or national always brings about a response.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2025, 06:53:08 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on March 03, 2025, 06:40:32 PMFunny that they always seem to find money for war.
It is not "funny", a crisis either personal or national always brings about a response.
Indeed
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 03, 2025, 06:40:32 PMWhy, did they put that money pre-Ukraine into the NHS?
Funny that they always seem to find money for war.
That money is currently frozen Russian assets and doesn't exist on the UK's balance book.
The loan will be created by making more national debt.
Eventually those frozen Russian assets will be sold and the proceeds given it to Ukraine, who will use it to pay back the loan.
The loan which is going to pay wages here will then be wiped off the national debt.
After all the pass the parcel has completed, everyone's face is clean - apart from whatever Russian oligarch owned the Russian assets.
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 03, 2025, 06:40:32 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on March 03, 2025, 11:19:44 AMQuote from: clarshack on March 03, 2025, 11:17:09 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 11:10:28 AMMissles to be made in Belfast that the Brits are giving to Ukraine...
So Belfast will become a legitimate target to the Russians?.
Russia is engaging in an illegal war so there are zero 'legitimate targets' either here or in Ukraine.
Maybe they'll leave Ukraine and the money can be spent on the NHS.
Why, did they put that money pre-Ukraine into the NHS?
Funny that they always seem to find money for war.
In a nutshell.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on March 03, 2025, 11:19:44 AMQuote from: clarshack on March 03, 2025, 11:17:09 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 11:10:28 AMMissles to be made in Belfast that the Brits are giving to Ukraine...
So Belfast will become a legitimate target to the Russians?.
Russia is engaging in an illegal war so there are zero 'legitimate targets' either here or in Ukraine.
Maybe they'll leave Ukraine and the money can be spent on the NHS.
I won't believe they are going to spend the money on the NHS unless I see a slogan on the side of a bus.
Never thought we'd effectively go to war without the US to back us.
Hopefully Trump sees sense soon enough.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on March 03, 2025, 10:11:45 PMNever thought we'd effectively go to war without the US to back us.
Hopefully Trump sees sense soon enough.
We?
I certainly wouldn't be fighting on the Brits side would you?
Your enlistment age, we ain't,good luck! Lol
The UK claim to be against these sort of invasions yet they have statues of Cromwell in London.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 10:27:32 PMWe?
I certainly wouldn't be fighting on the Brits side would you?
I think in this case, anyone rational would back the side the Brits are on rather than the opposite.
So Trump has paused military aid! f**king dummy spat clean out by the leader of the free world, his legacy was always going to be shit but my god this man is one odious individual
Will he last his term before another few attempts are taken on his life?
Sinn Féin take a similar view to Trump about dumping the people of Ukraine
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-feins-michelle-oneill-calls-ukraine-missile-deal-for-belfast-plant-incredulous/a1159576698.html
Putin must be loving this. Trump playing poker for massive stakes with the cards facing up. But no one understands the game of poker better than him. Right?
At this point, Ukraine should get on the phone to China, give them a biggly minerals deal in return for Chinese support.
The new axis would be USA-Russia vs. Europe-China.
Fingers crossed Belfast will get onto the bomb signing tour schedule. It's such a morally righteous thing to do these days
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2025, 08:25:37 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 10:27:32 PMWe?
I certainly wouldn't be fighting on the Brits side would you?
I think in this case, anyone rational would back the side the Brits are on rather than the opposite.
Or neither.
The tankies who were cheering on Russia because they hate the USA will be hugely confused now. Will they switch sides?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 03, 2025, 09:32:48 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on March 03, 2025, 06:40:32 PMWhy, did they put that money pre-Ukraine into the NHS?
Funny that they always seem to find money for war.
That money is currently frozen Russian assets and doesn't exist on the UK's balance book.
The loan will be created by making more national debt.
Eventually those frozen Russian assets will be sold and the proceeds given it to Ukraine, who will use it to pay back the loan.
The loan which is going to pay wages here will then be wiped off the national debt.
After all the pass the parcel has completed, everyone's face is clean - apart from whatever Russian oligarch owned the Russian assets.
I was thinking these seized assets would become part of any future negotiation, hence why they haven't already been cashed out. I could be wrong, would love to see the Russian billion being used to support Ukraine.
The current situation as I see it is this:
1. The US is aligning itself with Russia.
2. The US and Russia have done a deal on Ukraine or at least have an understanding at this point. If I had to guess Trump's thinking it would be Russia gets their part of Ukraine (annexation), we get our part (economic domination).
3. The deal is basically giving Putin everything he wants, i.e. Ukrainian surrender.
4. They both see Zelenskyy as standing in the way which is why the lies and campaign against him are ramping up massively.
5. The US has now stopped all military aid to Ukraine. I'm reading this includes air defence. Their hope will be once the civilian death toll inevitably rises the pressure will build on Zelenskyy to go or accept the surrender deal.
6. It's a trap either way of course, an election in Ukraine now would throw the country in turmoil. Putin's preferred candidate would be someone like Arestovych (despised and distrusted by most Ukrainians).
7. Putin will of course not allow the US to get their slice of the pie and as soon as they are ready the shells will be flying again.
p.s. What a snake Peter Mandelson is going on a solo run up Trump's arse.
So the US pauses weapons aid to Ukraine, essentially siding with Russia.
Europe now close to agree on re-arming, preparing for war with Russia.
If I was Russia, now would be the time to go all in on Ukraine and anywhere else they had aspirations of controlling as Europe don't have the weapons stockpiles to repel them.
Should the European countries go all in and send resources and men to Ukraine? Or create a new nato-esque european alliance without the US and including Ukraine? Does Europe need to increase it's Nuclear capability?
As things stand, Putin now holds all the aces with Trump in his pocket.
For the first time in this sorry affair, I feel WW3 (or at least full scale war in Europe) is now a real possibility.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 04, 2025, 09:54:21 AMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2025, 08:25:37 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2025, 10:27:32 PMWe?
I certainly wouldn't be fighting on the Brits side would you?
I think in this case, anyone rational would back the side the Brits are on rather than the opposite.
Or neither.
This.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2025, 09:05:08 AMSinn Féin take a similar view to Trump about dumping the people of Ukraine
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-feins-michelle-oneill-calls-ukraine-missile-deal-for-belfast-plant-incredulous/a1159576698.html
I'm more vaxed at the claim of using money for better things like housing when the local government has been stalled more or less from the start, the waste of money that has happened because of it is lost on Michelle
Street artist Banksy's take
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:sk6jryjhuavqchpa53jlcsyu/bafkreihbvz64kilaza5mwrzyovnbhcwrjkpjqpyhm6ysvo7yfkhba667ty@jpeg)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2025, 10:53:57 AMQuote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2025, 09:05:08 AMSinn Féin take a similar view to Trump about dumping the people of Ukraine
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-feins-michelle-oneill-calls-ukraine-missile-deal-for-belfast-plant-incredulous/a1159576698.html
I'm more vaxed at the claim of using money for better things like housing when the local government has been stalled more or less from the start, the waste of money that has happened because of it is lost on Michelle
That's Sinn Fein (along with the DUP) that appropriate funds from charities for their pet projects. Better use of money indeed Michelle.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on March 04, 2025, 11:14:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2025, 10:53:57 AMQuote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2025, 09:05:08 AMSinn Féin take a similar view to Trump about dumping the people of Ukraine
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-feins-michelle-oneill-calls-ukraine-missile-deal-for-belfast-plant-incredulous/a1159576698.html
I'm more vaxed at the claim of using money for better things like housing when the local government has been stalled more or less from the start, the waste of money that has happened because of it is lost on Michelle
That's Sinn Fein (along with the DUP) that appropriate funds from charities for their pet projects. Better use of money indeed Michelle.
When it comes to all matters to do with Ukraine, Sinn Fein speak with a forked tongue, absolute hypocrisy and ignorant to boot.
Keep seeing it mentioned that Russian aggression is a threat to the sovereignty of other countries..... It doesn't look to me like they have the manpower to take, hold and control militarily speaking. Holding onto what they've taken in the ethnically russian speaking oblasts in Ukraine seems to be hard enough for them. Do they really possess the capability to expand beyond those areas?
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 04, 2025, 10:36:45 AMSo the US pauses weapons aid to Ukraine, essentially siding with Russia.
Europe now close to agree on re-arming, preparing for war with Russia.
If I was Russia, now would be the time to go all in on Ukraine and anywhere else they had aspirations of controlling as Europe don't have the weapons stockpiles to repel them.
Should the European countries go all in and send resources and men to Ukraine? Or create a new nato-esque european alliance without the US and including Ukraine? Does Europe need to increase it's Nuclear capability?
As things stand, Putin now holds all the aces with Trump in his pocket.
For the first time in this sorry affair, I feel WW3 (or at least full scale war in Europe) is now a real possibility.
Russia is already all in on Ukraine. They have been shown up militarily to be a paper tiger. They would not be able to simultaneously take on anyone else IMO.
Quote from: theskull1 on March 04, 2025, 11:27:55 AMKeep seeing it mentioned that Russian aggression is a threat to the sovereignty of other countries..... It doesn't look to me like they have the manpower to take, hold and control militarily speaking. Holding onto what they've taken in the ethnically russian speaking oblasts in Ukraine seems to be hard enough for them. Do they really possess the capability to expand beyond those areas?
Oh, I thought they were heading to the capital in 3 days when the war started? Didn't realise they only wanted the Russian speaking areas.. France will be given the go ahead to take the French speaking Wallonia of Belgium soon ::)
Quote from: Main Street on March 04, 2025, 11:19:52 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on March 04, 2025, 11:14:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2025, 10:53:57 AMQuote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2025, 09:05:08 AMSinn Féin take a similar view to Trump about dumping the people of Ukraine
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-feins-michelle-oneill-calls-ukraine-missile-deal-for-belfast-plant-incredulous/a1159576698.html
I'm more vaxed at the claim of using money for better things like housing when the local government has been stalled more or less from the start, the waste of money that has happened because of it is lost on Michelle
That's Sinn Fein (along with the DUP) that appropriate funds from charities for their pet projects. Better use of money indeed Michelle.
When it comes to all matters to do with Ukraine, Sinn Fein speak with a forked tongue, absolute hypocrisy and ignorant to boot.
They are tankies at heart, student union politics at its best.
Quote from: HiMucker on March 04, 2025, 11:30:13 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on March 04, 2025, 10:36:45 AMSo the US pauses weapons aid to Ukraine, essentially siding with Russia.
Europe now close to agree on re-arming, preparing for war with Russia.
If I was Russia, now would be the time to go all in on Ukraine and anywhere else they had aspirations of controlling as Europe don't have the weapons stockpiles to repel them.
Should the European countries go all in and send resources and men to Ukraine? Or create a new nato-esque european alliance without the US and including Ukraine? Does Europe need to increase it's Nuclear capability?
As things stand, Putin now holds all the aces with Trump in his pocket.
For the first time in this sorry affair, I feel WW3 (or at least full scale war in Europe) is now a real possibility.
Russia is already all in on Ukraine. They have been shown up militarily to be a paper tiger. They would not be able to simultaneously take on anyone else IMO.
Would the likes of Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania have the capabilities, weapons manpower army as big as Ukraine?
Quote from: theskull1 on March 04, 2025, 11:27:55 AMKeep seeing it mentioned that Russian aggression is a threat to the sovereignty of other countries..... It doesn't look to me like they have the manpower to take, hold and control militarily speaking. Holding onto what they've taken in the ethnically russian speaking oblasts in Ukraine seems to be hard enough for them. Do they really possess the capability to expand beyond those areas?
How many times do you need to have it explained to you?
There is no such thing as an 'ethnically Russian speaking Oblast' in Ukraine.
There are Ukrainians who speak Ukrainian, there are Ukrainians who speak Russian, and there are Ukrainians who speak both.
Language is not a marker for national identity or allegiance in Ukraine. This is peak Jeffrey Sachs BS.
Are you ethnically English Skull? Is the north of Ireland an 'ethnically English speaking Shire'?
Edit: They don't have the capability now (thanks to Ukraine) but Trump is handing them a lifeline and they can't believe their luck (or not luck probably, maybe the dividends from a lot of hard work) It's why a ceasefire is going to be so deadly for Ukraine - they will gear up their war machine and relaunch again.
Can people stop engaging with that disingenuous moron?
It's hard to know what will happen. The US is pulling out but the EU has announced a €150 bn facility to buy weapons for Ukraine.
Quote from: Dag Dog on March 04, 2025, 09:57:41 AMThe tankies who were cheering on Russia because they hate the USA will be hugely confused now. Will they switch sides?
Tankies love fascist, repressive, authoritarian states so that will be a big NO.
https://www.ft.com/content/8604ecd8-84ed-4469-b329-5707b0977a6c
Even before Trump kicked the Ukrainian delegation out of the White House, the US had already moved to normalise relations with Putin, appeared to adopt many of Russia's key positions on the war and pushed for Zelenskyy to be removed from office.
Putin wants a puppet regime in Ukraine. It's why he is demanding elections. He thinks he can manipulate a winner.
Quote from: Look-Up! on March 04, 2025, 09:15:47 AMPutin must be loving this. Trump playing poker for massive stakes with the cards facing up. But no one understands the game of poker better than him. Right?
Especially when Putin is the one dealing the cards for him to play.
Zelensky has two options, give the US the minerals and cede large parts of Ukraine to the Russians or hope that the EU, UK and France in particular wade in and get that territory back but at the cost of the very same minerals and more Ukrainian lives. How that border is maintained thereafter is a whole different story.
Russia isn't exactly in tip top condition economy wise either.
The colonialist mindset from all involved may have evolved slightly but the goal is still the same.
Can Zelensky make a deal about the natural resources and give a chunk to the Americans...then in a few years time, with Trump gone, Ukraine renege on the deal and kick out the Americans?
America reneged on the Budapest agreement about protecting Ukraine in return for handing over nukes.
Quote from: Don Cockburn on March 04, 2025, 01:37:47 PMCan Zelensky make a deal about the natural resources and give a chunk to the Americans...then in a few years time, with Trump gone, Ukraine renege on the deal and kick out the Americans?
America reneged on the Budapest agreement about protecting Ukraine in return for handing over nukes.
America is trying to convince Ukraine that having a few hundred or thousand US engineers on the ground in Ukraine is some sort of security guarantee in itself. As if they couldn't evacuate the lot of them within 24 hours if need be.
I'm sure the Russians must be chortling at the idea that an American engineer is some sort of effective human shield. Utterly ridiculous concept.
Edit: I've read a bit of commentary on the actual deal - apparently it contains nothing much of actual substance, more like just a commitment to do something in the future.
Speaking of Trump and his desire for minerals:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-afghanistan-minerals/trump-ghani-agree-us-can-help-develop-afghanistans-rare-earth-minerals-idUSKCN1BX06G/
"
But after 16 years in Afghanistan, the U.S. is looking for ways to offset the billions of dollars spent every year in propping up the government in Kabul and mining is increasingly being seen as a way to do that
"
How'd that work out for Afghanistan?
https://www.ft.com/content/1b098f25-be3b-406d-88ad-569a03aa3cd1
"since last Friday, everyone should understand that the US really has switched sides. And there is actually no longer a united west with a clear position in this conflict. "The Ukrainians are being attacked by both sides.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2025, 04:43:37 PMhttps://www.ft.com/content/1b098f25-be3b-406d-88ad-569a03aa3cd1
"since last Friday, everyone should understand that the US really has switched sides. And there is actually no longer a united west with a clear position in this conflict. "The Ukrainians are being attacked by both sides.
Ukrainians are taking seriously the possible threat to Zelenskyy's life, from either the US or Russia or the connivance of both.
The current mob in the WH are a very sinister bunch, with Trump's recent rhetoric about him not 'being around for very long' and that **** Musk tweeting about how be should be given some kind of 'amnesty' and be allowed to leave the country - using language to try and gaslight people into thinking Zelenskyy is a criminal of some sort.
An interesting read from Valeriy Pekar who gives his views on Ukraine and the world in which we now live:
This was written on 22 Feb and since then US Aid to Ukraine has stopped and Musk has called for US to leave the UN.
(Apologies for the large cut and paste)
It took a week to put together a picture of all the trash that swirled around us. Finally, we did. This text should be supplemented with important details that will become known later, but I am publishing it quickly so that we can get acquainted with the new reality. But first of all, pour yourself some tea so that you have enough strength to read to the end.
1. So, the old world order has come to an end.
The old world order, based on rules, agreements and values, no longer exists. It was never perfect, but it existed. Now it no longer exists.
The reasons for the destruction of the world order should be described in a separate article, here I will only briefly note that developed countries benefited from the world order, and developing countries (those that are developing and catching up or at least pretending to) tried to destroy it, because it is unprofitable. At some point, developing countries (primarily China) began to catch up with developed ones, and the most powerful developed country, the USA, decided that it was time to move from protecting the old order to destroying it. That is why the American people elected Trump, who became the exponent of this idea. This is not a coincidence, but the embodiment of a trend (like everything else in the world). Previously, on one side they would tear down the supporting structure, on the other they would support and repair it; now the structure is being destroyed from both sides, and it will go much faster.
In this "new world without order", the USA will not protect its European or Asian allies. In this world, there are now no alliances and allies, no mutual obligations, and old treaties can be revised unilaterally. There are only big strong countries that take what they want, and small weak ones that become victims of such policies. At least, this is how the new American administration sees the world. They are not isolationists – they are expansionists, and we should not be surprised by the demands for Greenland, Canada or Panama now.
Obviously, the current American administration is not monolithic. It consists of many groups with quite different values and interests, but for now, I will mention only the two most important ones. Let us call them America First and the techno-oligarchs (it would be more correct to call them techno-fascists, using this word not as an insult, but to denote their ideology). America First dreams of destroying the world order, but strengthening the American state so that America dominates the world. The techno-oligarchs dream of destroying the world order, including the American state, so that their techno-corporations dominate the world.
The strategy of the first group is described in the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025. The strategy of the techno-oligarchs is formed by Musk, Thiel, Sachs and other representatives of this cohort. These two groups have opposing views on taxation, intelligence agencies, migrants (techno-oligarchs need talent from all over the world, America First against migrants) and other issues, so sooner or later they will quarrel. But for now, they are united in their desire to destroy what was as quickly as possible. "We will destroy the whole world of violence, uproot it, and then..." – we have already heard it somewhere.
The New America does not want to be a global policeman and monitor order in the world. It will not defend democracy, spread education, develop institutions, etc. – it only needs your assets from you (previously only China did this). The New America does not believe in alliances and agreements, it believes in the right of the strong in a multipolar world. If you are strong, do what you want. If you are weak, give away "clothes, boots and a motorcycle", as the Terminator said. This is neocolonialism, whether in economic or in force format.
The New America does not believe in multilateralism, that is, it does not need international institutions, so it is not excluded that in the near future, the US will withdraw from NATO (if not formally, then in fact), the World Trade Organization, and maybe even the UN. Musk will explain this by the need to save American money from being wasted, Trump - by the inoperability of institutions (and he will be right, but instead of repairing he will propose to demolish everything to zero), Project 2025 - by the fact that if the US needs to help someone, they can do it directly, "without unnecessary bureaucrats."
2. What does the new American policy mean for Europe?
The security contract with Europe, "Pax Americana," is over. Europe as a centre of power is not beneficial to America: now it is not an ally (because there are no allies), but an alternative centre of power – and the fewer centres of power, the better. And here America's goals coincide with those of Russia and China: to separate Europe from America, to break up the European Union, and to keep Europe weak, disunited, and powerless as separate, unprotected markets and an object of plunder. A kind of clumsy seal that can be bitten from all sides.
It is still unclear how the American administration sees the zone of influence in Europe: will it be plundered together from both sides, will Western Europe be a zone of exclusive American interests, and Eastern Europe - Russia's (as was the case during the Cold War), what will happen with the encroachments of China (which is already gradually buying up Europe piece by piece), etc. But the main thing is that they need to collapse the European Union, to divide everyone, and to do this they openly support Eurosceptics from the far right (and Russia also from the far left) end of the political spectrum. If strong individual leaders appear on the ruins of Europe, the United States will cooperate with them. So far, they do not see such leaders in France, Germany, or Britain.
3. What does the new American policy mean for Russia?
America sees China as its greatest adversary. And here we have what I call the greatest geopolitical mistake of the 21st century: the belief of Americans in the possibility of tearing Russia away from China and turning it in the opposite direction – against China. In our opinion, this is impossible to do. But, as we know, each American administration at the beginning sought to "reset" relations with Russia, mistakenly considering it part of Western civilization. None of these "resets" ended well, but that was later.
In such a situation, the main fear of the American administration is the collapse of the Russian regime. This must not be allowed at all costs. Two years ago, I wrote that the fear of Russia's defeat so much outweighs the fear of Ukraine's defeat (without which the world lived perfectly well for hundreds of years) that there may come a time when, instead of supporting Ukraine against Russia, America will start supporting Russia against Ukraine. It's unpleasant, but this day has come.
In the first month of his term, Trump has brought Russia out of international isolation, and instead of an aggressor and international terrorist, he has presented it as a powerful country that has the right to its place at the table of great powers. Sanctions may soon be lifted.
Imagine that in World War II, the US president, instead of helping Britain and Europe fight the Nazi Reich, instead of Lend-Lease for the USSR, would send negotiators to meet with Hitler's representatives, call Adolf his best friend, prepare a personal meeting and explain to everyone that Czechoslovakia, Poland, France are to blame for the war, and we will somehow come to an agreement with our friend Adolf.
4. What does the new American policy mean for Ukraine?
First, there will be no more support for Ukraine. Back in the fall, Ukrainian analysts explained that there would be no support from the United States regardless of the results of the presidential elections.
Sometimes it seems to us that someone in the American administration hates Ukraine, and someone loves it. This is a childish approach: a child thinks that they are in the spotlight, and everyone around them treats them in a certain way, good or bad. An adult knows that the world is mostly indifferent to you. The world is not Ukraine-centric. In their understanding, Ukraine is neither good nor bad - it is simply irrelevant, that is, it has nothing to do with the matter.
Ukraine prevents today's America from doing two things. First, to weaken Europe so that it is defenceless. Second, to strengthen Russia so that it can be used against China. So Ukraine must be punished - nothing personal, just business.
A popular metaphor among the new American administration compares the current war to the American Civil War. Ukraine looks like a rebellious southern province. The good northerners will eventually defeat the bad southerners and restore order. Foreign powers (the USA, and Europe) should not get involved in someone else's civil war.
5. What should Ukraine do in this situation?
First, stop thinking that we can somehow "sell" ourselves to the new American administration. For them, we are an annoying obstacle in the implementation of their plans. We have nothing to offer them.
How can America put pressure on Ukraine? It is unlikely to be by stopping aid because aid will stop in any case. Certain aspects of this stoppage will be painful for us, very painful, much more than the dismantling of USAID. But I see no way to keep this aid.
Secondly, it is time to understand that our main ally is Europe. I wrote about this a few months ago. Europe will not survive without Ukraine. Ukraine will not survive without Europe. We are in the same boat, we will either swim out together or sink together. It would be nice if Europe understood this as quickly as we do.
Europe needs Ukraine as a shield. We have the largest army on the continent. We are the only ones with an army that knows how to contain Russia. We are the only ones with an army that knows how to wage modern, high-tech warfare.
Ukraine needs Europe as a rear. As a source of financial aid, weapons, technology, investment, political and moral support. We are doomed to be together.
Will Europe wake up quickly? Ukraine paid with the blood of its best sons and daughters for three years of European awakening that were wasted. We helped Europe buy time to prepare, but they did not use it. Only now, under the influence of the obvious destruction of alliances and promises, is the awakening beginning. We told Europe that we were protecting it, but they did not believe it until the new reality made it obvious.
Will Europe finally consolidate or become paralyzed? Different analysts assess the probabilities of these two scenarios differently. We do not know how the elections in Germany will end and how stable the new government coalition will be. France also has domestic political problems with a potential turn to the far right end of the political spectrum in the next elections. But at least the UK, the Nordic-Baltic Eight, the Netherlands, Poland and the Czech Republic will be with us. I will say something special about Poland: despite everything, without each other, we would not survive in the world we have now.
It is possible that as a result of American and Russian attacks on European unity, the European Union will cease to exist. Sometimes it will seem that Russia has outdone everyone. But at the same time, such a potential defeat could provide an impetus for the formation of a new union - a security one, not an economic one. In this union, Ukraine will play an important role, because without us it is impossible. It is possible that Intermarium (Intermaria) will turn from an unrealistic political project into a reality.
By the way, we need to accelerate European integration as much as possible, despite the fact that we may find ourselves in a situation where the EU will already cease to exist. The further we move along this path, the more significant our role will be and the better the conditions in the new union will be.
Thirdly, it is worth looking for allies outside the US and the European Union, and here it is worth mentioning Turkey first of all. Those who look at the world with a childish eye count as our enemies everyone who did not sign our documents did not speak out clearly enough, and once did something in their favour that we did not like. But this way you can end up in a world where everyone around you is considered an enemy. The world does not revolve around Ukraine, each country cares first of all about itself. And we need to care first of all about ourselves and look for allies in this matter.
6. Since Russia cannot overthrow Ukraine by military means, it will do it politically.
The idea of elections during wartime, that is, before the signing of a peace agreement with security guarantees, will be destructive for Ukraine (even the signing of such an agreement is not yet peace, it comes only with the beginning of its actual implementation).
The USA and Russia are now uniting in promoting this idea "first elections, then peace" – this is the best way to overthrow Ukraine quickly and inexpensively.
I have written about the elections dozens of times and will write more. I will note that the loss of Ukrainian statehood, which will come after this, does not guarantee Ukrainians' survival (the experience of the 20th century, Bucha, Mariupol and other temporarily occupied territories will help to understand this). Russia will mobilize everyone without delays and reservations and will throw them into the next wave of imperial expansion – into defenceless Europe. And there will be nowhere to hide - you can run to Poland, but the war will come there for you.
By the way, it is no secret that Trump wants the Nobel Peace Prize. He is sure that a ceasefire is enough for this. We know that this is not so. But even if a peace agreement is concluded, the Nobel Prize is awarded, and the peace agreement is then violated, for Trump it will only mean one thing - that we ourselves are to blame, and he is the greatest peacemaker of our time. He brought us peace, and we rejected it.
7. What should Ukraine do?
First, understand that we have a crisis that threatens the loss of statehood and the lives of many of us. Political elites must immediately stop political squabbles and persecutions, bad decisions and cabinet management, as well as preparations for elections (which will not happen if we do not survive). A hundred years ago, such squabbles led to a catastrophe. Political elites must come out to the people together with a call for unity and solidarity in the face of the threat of losing everything.
They say that Ukrainians usually unite only 5 minutes before being shot, so we have the last chance to change this false tradition.
Second, take a subjective position. Ukraine will not agree to any conditions that do not ensure the survival of the country and its citizens. We are not obliged to be a victim. Do not be offended or react to verbal attacks, but express your interests and your position coldly and in an adult way.
Improving management in the Armed Forces and in the rear, in the economy, military-industrial complex, energy and other areas is becoming a matter of survival.
There is no immediate catastrophe yet. We have resources for this year and we must use this time as effectively as possible to awaken and gather allies to secure resources for the next and subsequent years. The main efforts should be focused on Europe.
What should each and every one of us do?
-- Realize the scale of the problem and the impossibility of hiding from it. Either you are in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, or for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Join the victory either by service or with your own money and volunteering.
-- Put your head in order and keep it cool, do not be led by Russian propaganda, do not spread it. If you cannot work for victory - at least do not work for defeat. The level of information attacks will increase many times shortly.
-- Help those who are having a harder time. Support each other. We are a networked society of free people, and that is the key to our resilience.
"I wish this hadn't happened in my time," Frodo said. "Neither do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live in such a time. But that's not for them to decide. We can only decide what to do with the time we have."
The reasons for the destruction of the world order should be described in a separate article, here I will only briefly note that developed countries benefited from the world order, and developing countries (those that are developing and catching up or at least pretending to) tried to destroy it, because it is unprofitable.
If this lad actually believed this then more the fool him.
The Developed countries held the developing countries by the toy dolls via it's proxy IMF, world bank etc etc to exploit them and their resources with all the strings that they attach.
Glorified Loan sharks.
Just think the Irish troika on steroids
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2025, 03:56:30 PMThe reasons for the destruction of the world order should be described in a separate article, here I will only briefly note that developed countries benefited from the world order, and developing countries (those that are developing and catching up or at least pretending to) tried to destroy it, because it is unprofitable.
If this lad actually believed this then more the fool him.
The Developed countries held the developing countries by the toy dolls via it's proxy IMF, world bank etc etc to exploit them and their resources with all the strings that they attach.
Glorified Loan sharks.
Just think the Irish troika on steroids
Developed countries benefited, developing countries did not. I'm not sure the points you're making are inconsistent with that.
I tried to find the original article in Ukrainian and couldn't but did find a shorter summary in English which used the word 'dismantle' instead of 'destroy'.
Russian dissident Andrei Ilionarov says he and others were informed by a Trump administration official a week ago that Trump was going to suspend aid to Ukraine.
https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1897427579243749381?s=46
https://www.ft.com/content/873d5289-637e-4819-9fa1-bf4c105ddb03
The US and its G7 partners have warned Moscow they could expand sanctions and use frozen Russian assets to support Ukraine, as Donald Trump seeks to win over Vladimir Putin to his ceasefire proposal.
Trump left himself no cards to play. Instead of backing Ukraine behind closed doors, he come out and said he not bck them. Russia see he's no cards to play, and no need to give up anything. Just wait to America pull out aid all together, them Push on. Trump totally outplayed himself,as he nowhere near as smart as he and his cohorts think.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 15, 2025, 01:01:13 AMTrump left himself no cards to play. Instead of backing Ukraine behind closed doors, he come out and said he not bck them. Russia see he's no cards to play, and no need to give up anything. Just wait to America pull out aid all together, them Push on. Trump totally outplayed himself,as he nowhere near as smart as he and his cohorts think.
Now that Russia has told Trump to f**k off as predicted, I expect he will revert back to bullying Ukraine.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GmVs4uca8AEi2Eo?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on March 15, 2025, 07:48:39 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on March 15, 2025, 01:01:13 AMTrump left himself no cards to play. Instead of backing Ukraine behind closed doors, he come out and said he not bck them. Russia see he's no cards to play, and no need to give up anything. Just wait to America pull out aid all together, them Push on. Trump totally outplayed himself,as he nowhere near as smart as he and his cohorts think.
Now that Russia has told Trump to f**k off as predicted, I expect he will revert back to bullying Ukraine.
Well he can't publicly admit that Putin has again run rings around him.
The who wrote the Art of the Deal sweetened Putin with the promise of a USA v Russia ice hockey match, lol
The latest Ukraine strike on the Engels airbase looks like a significant blow. Apparently the Russians use this base for planes with air launched missiles. A new consignment of missiles arrived and before they could be used against Ukrainian schools and hospitals the Ukrainian drones arrived and blew the whole lot up. There were 5 aircraft there, it is not hard to imagine shrapnel damage to them too.
This could reflect US intelligence or perhaps the Ukrainians have a spy living in an apartment nearby.
(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA1BjByk.img?w=800&h=435&q=60&m=2&f=jpg)
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2025, 03:34:41 PMThe latest Ukraine strike on the Engels airbase looks like a significant blow. Apparently the Russians use this base for planes with air launched missiles. A new consignment of missiles arrived and before they could be used against Ukrainian schools and hospitals the Ukrainian drones arrived and blew the whole lot up. There were 5 aircraft there, it is not hard to imagine shrapnel damage to them too.
This could reflect US intelligence or perhaps the Ukrainians have a spy living in an apartment nearby.
It sounds like Ukraine have regularly been trying to hit it. Maybe it's pot luck which drones or missiles elude the defence systems.
Trump thinks of himself as the world's greatest peacemaker. This has been disproved in Gaza and Ukraine. Neither is anywhere near peace despite Trump's attention.
Quote from: Don Cockburn on March 20, 2025, 07:51:07 PMQuote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2025, 03:34:41 PMThe latest Ukraine strike on the Engels airbase looks like a significant blow. Apparently the Russians use this base for planes with air launched missiles. A new consignment of missiles arrived and before they could be used against Ukrainian schools and hospitals the Ukrainian drones arrived and blew the whole lot up. There were 5 aircraft there, it is not hard to imagine shrapnel damage to them too.
This could reflect US intelligence or perhaps the Ukrainians have a spy living in an apartment nearby.
It sounds like Ukraine have regularly been trying to hit it. Maybe it's pot luck which drones or missiles elude the defence systems.
They have hit it before, but not with the same effect. The point is that the Russians know they can hit it, but they cannot muster the air defence to stop them doing so. The object of the Ukrainians is to make them withdraw their planes further away, to a point where they are not much use in launching missiles.
Likewise the drones have more or less dismantled the air defence in Crimea, making it useless as a base for ships or aircraft.
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:ny4t5aqqh54xdpfx75slvmre/bafkreia7mlmgsjlxpdbgkhvkahzhfqgi7zqvsddqd3ogczourafhxmgbva@jpeg)
Another emergency meeting for Elmo surely!
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/feb/15/elon-musk-changes-twitter-algorithm-super-bowl-slump-report
The USA has been taken over by idiots.
https://x.com/richardhanania/status/1903237498266165725?s=46
How far up can I blow smoke up his arse?
Everyone has known for many years now that if you feed that ego you'll go far.
Surely people at some point must grow a spine
It's nearly like the times of the Romans
"Surely people at some point must grow a spine"
Its difficult to view a Putin Trump bromance as the strongest signal of a fallen world when for several decades now the West completely cucks for Israel.
Quote from: theskull1 on March 22, 2025, 10:28:06 AM"Surely people at some point must grow a spine"
Its difficult to view a Putin Trump bromance as the strongest signal of a fallen world when for several decades now the West completely cucks for Israel.
And you shill for Putin et al so you're no better any Israeli cheerleader.
Whether or not Trump is a Russian asset, Putin is not interested in a ceasefire. He still thinks he can control Ukraine.
But Trump put himself in a corner with his display on the oval office a few weeks bck. If he say he bck Urkaine to the hilt with plenty of weapons. U had plenty of cards as he called it, to do a ceasefire.
https://www.ft.com/content/cd157bc6-b42f-494d-a72a-130d6ccbcdc6
Austria says it uncovered a Russian disinformation operation – a Bulgarian national arrested in Vienna is under investigation for spying
The cell had planned a broad disinformation campaign in German-speaking countries, with a focus on Austria.
"The spread of false narratives, fake news and manipulative content undermines trust in our institutions and endangers social cohesion," said state secretary Jörg Leichtfried.
The cell was using both online and offline tactics such as graffiti and stickers.
On this day in history, Russians began a three day operation that would be the largest mass deportation operation of the dark Soviet era, with the forced deportations of over 90,000 people from Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia to the far reaches of Siberia, where many eventually died in labor camps.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gm4w-FuXkAAAce8?format=png&name=900x900)
Russians even gave the operation a colorful name - Operation "Priboi" (Operation "Tidal Wave").
Moscow's intent in the Baltics in 1949 was the same as we see today in Ukraine—the destruction of national identity, the severing of family bonds and centuries of tradition, replacing it with "Russia".Only this week, the Russian dictator signed a decree mandating that residents of the occupied areas of Ukraine must accept Russian passports or face deportation.Different century. Same crimes. Same Russia.
Yulia Svyrydenko,First Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Economy of Ukraine
@Svyrydenko_Y
Darth Putin (https://bsky.app/profile/darthputinkgb.bsky.social/post/3ll6tyywkuc2n)
OTD in 1949 Operation Priboi started. USSR forcibly deported *90,000* Baltic people to 'inhospitable parts' of Russia. 70% of those deported were women & children under 16.
Imagine mass deporting children today......
Darth Putin @darthputinkgb.bsky.social
·
14h
Attempts to return home were punishable. Those who organized the deportations received medals. We do not understand why Estonians are not grateful to us for this.
Da. Prez is aware that "inhospitable parts of Russia" is tautology.
Darth Putin @darthputinkgb.bsky.social
·
14h
We (and various pseudo academics*) genuinely pretend there's no way to explain why NATO is so obviously popular with so many of our former colonies. Total, unexplainable mystery. Especially seeing as we don't whitewash these crimes at all and aren't repeating them right now.
Darth Putin @darthputinkgb.bsky.social
·
14h
*Chomsky. Looking at you. And you too Mearsheimer.
All my trolls are morons.
The Bolsheviks and Israel are one of the same ... not surprising people are unaware of this given the way the history books used in schools have told the story of the Russian revolution. Do your own research to find out who owned those publishing companies.
https://x.com/Truthtellerftm/status/1885454196004315459 (https://x.com/Truthtellerftm/status/1885454196004315459)
As Alexander Solzhenitsyn stated ... "Russia must come to terms with the Stalinist and revolutionary genocides – and that its Jewish population should be as offended at their own role in the purges as they are at the Soviet power that also persecuted them"
Quote from: theskull1 on March 26, 2025, 08:24:13 AMThe Bolsheviks and Israel are one of the same ... not surprising people are unaware of this given the way the history books used in schools have told the story of the Russian revolution. Do your own research to find out who owned those publishing companies.
https://x.com/Truthtellerftm/status/1885454196004315459 (https://x.com/Truthtellerftm/status/1885454196004315459)
As Alexander Solzhenitsyn stated ... "Russia must come to terms with the Stalinist and revolutionary genocides – and that its Jewish population should be as offended at their own role in the purges as they are at the Soviet power that also persecuted them"
Who is truthteller?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 link=msg=2330620 date=
quote author=theskull1 link=msg=2330616 date=1742977453]
The Bolsheviks and Israel are one of the same ... not surprising people are unaware of this given the way the history books used in schools have told the story of the Russian revolution. Do your own research to find out who owned those publishing companies.
https://x.com/Truthtellerftm/status/1885454196004315459 (https://x.com/Truthtellerftm/status/1885454196004315459)
As Alexander Solzhenitsyn stated ... "Russia must come to terms with the Stalinist and revolutionary genocides – and that its Jewish population should be as offended at their own role in the purges as they are at the Soviet power that also persecuted them"
Russian colonisation, murder and genocide predates the Russian revolution but I suppose it's convenient for the GAAboard Anti-Semite to blame the Jews.
Russian colonisation, murder and genocide didn't stop with the fall of the USSR either.
But it wasn't the Russians, it was the Jews. Don't make me f**king laugh. Pathetic.
Solzhenitsyn was a typical chauvinistic Russian nationalist too. He just didn't like communism.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2025, 08:54:00 AMQuote from: theskull1 on March 26, 2025, 08:24:13 AMThe Bolsheviks and Israel are one of the same ... not surprising people are unaware of this given the way the history books used in schools have told the story of the Russian revolution. Do your own research to find out who owned those publishing companies.
https://x.com/Truthtellerftm/status/1885454196004315459 (https://x.com/Truthtellerftm/status/1885454196004315459)
As Alexander Solzhenitsyn stated ... "Russia must come to terms with the Stalinist and revolutionary genocides – and that its Jewish population should be as offended at their own role in the purges as they are at the Soviet power that also persecuted them"
Who is truthteller?
Reading a paragraph of shite and a cobbled together meme with a few quotes from an anonymous X account with a Russian flag is 'doing your own research'. For morons.
Some of the work of Alexander II (not a Jew)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide
The Circassian genocide,[10][11] or Tsitsekun,[a] was the systematic mass killing, ethnic cleansing, and forced displacement of between 95% and 97%[c][d] of the Circassian people during the final stages of the Russian invasion of Circassia in the 19th century.[15][16][17] It resulted in the deaths of between 1,000,000 and 1.5 million and the destruction of Circassia, which was then annexed by the Russian Empire.[18][e] Those planned for extermination were mainly the Circassians, who are predominantly Muslims, but other ethnic groups in the Caucasus were also affected, as part of the Caucasian War.[16] The Imperial Russian Army also impaled their victims and tore open the bellies of pregnant women to intimidate the Circassians and devastate their morale.[15][19][irrelevant citation] Many Russian generals, such as Grigory Zass, described the Circassians as "subhuman filth" and a "lowly race" to justify and glorify their wholesale slaughter[15][20][21][page needed] and their use as human test subjects in unethical scientific experiments.[22] Russian soldiers were also permitted to rape Circassian women.[15]
Quote from: theskull1 on March 26, 2025, 08:24:13 AMThe Bolsheviks and Israel are one of the same ... not surprising people are unaware of this given the way the history books used in schools have told the story of the Russian revolution. Do your own research to find out who owned those publishing companies.
https://x.com/Truthtellerftm/status/1885454196004315459 (https://x.com/Truthtellerftm/status/1885454196004315459)
As Alexander Solzhenitsyn stated ... "Russia must come to terms with the Stalinist and revolutionary genocides – and that its Jewish population should be as offended at their own role in the purges as they are at the Soviet power that also persecuted them"
I really really wouldn't be using quotes from Solzhenitsyn to attempt to make a point lad.
https://www.ft.com/content/f5fee89e-be92-4ca3-9e3c-01078b8a2b64
Brussels has rejected Russia's demand to lift EU restrictions on a key agricultural bank as part of a partial ceasefire deal, saying its sanctions regime will stay in place until the "unconditional withdrawal" of Moscow's troops from Ukraine.
The European Commission statement on Wednesday came after the US said it had agreed a ceasefire with Russia and Ukraine, covering energy infrastructure and the Black Sea.
The Kremlin later claimed the agreement was dependent on dropping sanctions including those imposed on Rosselkhozbank, a bank involved in financing the production and export of food, and reconnecting it to the global Swift banking messaging system.
"The end of the Russian unprovoked and unjustified aggression in Ukraine and unconditional withdrawal of all Russian military forces from the entire territory of Ukraine would be one of the main preconditions to amend or lift sanctions," Anitta Hipper, European Commission spokesperson for foreign affairs, told the Financial Times.
"The EU's main focus remains to maximise pressure on Russia, using all tools available, including sanctions, to diminish Russia's ability to wage its war against Ukraine."
Germany decides to leave history in the past and prepare for war (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdjyjlkewr2o)
The country's top general has told the BBC the cash boost is urgently needed because he believes Russian aggression won't stop at Ukraine.
But Gen Breuer's ambitions are far greater.
He told us Germany needs an extra 100,000 troops to defend itself and Nato's eastern flank adequately - a total of 460,000, including reserves. So he insists a return to military service is "absolutely" necessary.
"You won't get this 100,000 without one or other model of conscription," the general said.
"We don't have to determine now what model brings them. For me it's only important that we get the soldiers in."
That debate has only just begun.
Quote from: theskull1 on March 31, 2025, 04:29:16 PMGermany decides to leave history in the past and prepare for war (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdjyjlkewr2o)
The country's top general has told the BBC the cash boost is urgently needed because he believes Russian aggression won't stop at Ukraine.
But Gen Breuer's ambitions are far greater.
He told us Germany needs an extra 100,000 troops to defend itself and Nato's eastern flank adequately - a total of 460,000, including reserves. So he insists a return to military service is "absolutely" necessary.
"You won't get this 100,000 without one or other model of conscription," the general said.
"We don't have to determine now what model brings them. For me it's only important that we get the soldiers in."
That debate has only just begun.
Europe is militarising thanks to your genocidal hero Putin.
I suppose your selected cut and paste about possible conscription from that article is your way of criticising Germany for its plans to defend itself and its allies?
No mention of the hidden hand of the 'You know whos'. Are they behind Putin's aggressive behaviour do you think?
Why do you two come here when you seem to share no interest in Gaelic games
You'd get a whiff of my farts before I do Gerry. Never far behind.
Quote from: theskull1 on March 31, 2025, 06:09:30 PMYou'd get a whiff of my farts before I do Gerry. Never far behind.
Not easy being a, what was it again, "psy-op". 🤪
You must lament the good old days when you could spread your lies unchallenged eh Skull?
Theres lads on the America politics thread, never posted anywhere else!
Little Timofiyko, aged 3, was just one of the 9 children murdered by Russia yesterday. 18 dead in total. Over 50 injured.
https://x.com/glushkodenys/status/1908479601220759609?s=46
Iskander missile strike with cluster munitions right next to a children's play park in a residential area of Kryvyi Rih.
Putin !! (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9wpq8xrvd9t)
Quote from: flowerpot on April 28, 2025, 01:40:38 PMPutin !! (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9wpq8xrvd9t)
But Putin is a harmless divil, and why do countries like Ireland need to worry about cyber warfare or the security of our infrastructure and resources?
Anybody who suggests we take it seriously is a warmonger who wants to send your children to the trenches to die.
https://news.sky.com/story/us-and-ukraine-sign-deal-to-establish-investment-fund-13358985
There is only going to be one winnner here and it's not Ukraine.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/05/01/tables-have-suddenly-turned-putin-russia-dire-trouble/
.
Sir Keir Starmer and Emmanuel Macron have together pulled off a remarkable feat of high statecraft. They may have averted a strategic debacle of the first order in Ukraine, and with it irreparable damage to the credibility of the West.
The long-fraught US-Ukraine minerals deal signed in Washington – actually a shale gas deal – is a radically different document from Donald Trump's original demand for $350bn (£262bn) of war debt "reparations" and the US colonial takeover of the country's infrastructure.
The full story behind Trump's Damascene conversion will emerge over time, but Ukrainian officials say the British and French leaders played a critical role in steering the US president away from his pro-Kremlin infatuation, as did Boris Johnson. It was this patient whispering that paved the way for the Trump-Zelensky tête-à-tête on the marble floors of St Peter's in Rome.
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Jonathan Powell, Downing Street's unflappable national security adviser, will deserve his knighthood when the time comes, and something more than bachelor grade if this is indeed the turning point after weeks of diplomatic calamities
The Moscow parade farce.
(https://bingobaker.com/image/8911894/544/1/untitled-bingo.png)
The end game is obviously the restoration of the pre-1991 status.
This guy makes no bones about it. But remember all the useful idiots like Ewan and theskull who claimed it was about NATO, Nazis and ending Ukrainian corruption.
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1925843525175750946
Quote from: Dag Dog on May 23, 2025, 08:49:21 PMThe end game is obviously the restoration of the pre-1991 status.
This guy makes no bones about it. But remember all the useful idiots like Ewan and theskull who claimed it was about NATO, Nazis and ending Ukrainian corruption.
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1925843525175750946
Back in the USSR?
Progress is slow though, at present.
Quote from: Dag Dog on May 23, 2025, 08:49:21 PMThe end game is obviously the restoration of the pre-1991 status.
This guy makes no bones about it. But remember all the useful idiots like Ewan and theskull who claimed it was about NATO, Nazis and ending Ukrainian corruption.
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1925843525175750946
The Russians have been telling us the real reason for their invasion for years now. Western useful idiots like John Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs have to cling to the lies otherwise they would have to admit they were wrong. And hell will freeze over before their egos would ever allow that to happen.
Ditto for their braindead online acolytes like Skull and that thick shit stirring tr**p Ewan 'a Ukrainian stole my bike' McKenna. Absolute w**ker.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on May 24, 2025, 08:39:24 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on May 23, 2025, 08:49:21 PMThe end game is obviously the restoration of the pre-1991 status.
This guy makes no bones about it. But remember all the useful idiots like Ewan and theskull who claimed it was about NATO, Nazis and ending Ukrainian corruption.
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1925843525175750946
The Russians have been telling us the real reason for their invasion for years now. Western useful idiots like John Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs have to cling to the lies otherwise they would have to admit they were wrong. And hell will freeze over before their egos would ever allow that to happen.
Ditto for their braindead online acolytes like Skull and that thick shit stirring tr**p Ewan 'a Ukrainian stole my bike' McKenna. Absolute w**ker.
The basis for the full scale invasion was spelled out in Putin's 'treatise' "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians), widely regarded as being a counterpart to Hitler's Sudentenland speech.
No mention in the treatise at all of NATO aggression as being a factor.
The 'useful idiots' (an actual Kremlin description) are hooked in to any one of a hundred Kremlin narratives designed to attract any useful idiot from the far left to the far right.
Trump saying he doesn't understand what Putins doing, he's lost it!. Maybe the idiot realise he's been played from Day 1.
Saw a good one today-
"I recall a time in America when the President and the Village Idiot were 2 different people"
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 26, 2025, 11:28:33 PMTrump saying he doesn't understand what Putins doing, he's lost it!. Maybe the idiot realise he's been played from Day 1.
He's in Putins pocket, that's why.
This was a spectacular trojan horse operation from Ukraine.
Three years ago, Russia thought they'd take Ukraine in 3 days by sending a few jeeps and rusty tanks to Kyiv.
I doubt they ever pondered so much of their military hardware would be wiped out and the country brought to its knees economically.
Unfortunately, Putin will fight on until he has wasted every last orc. It's an existential battle for him and the other arms of his mafia state.
In a spectacular attack planned over 18 months, Ukrainian agents moved drones and explosives deep inside Russia to strike four airbases
A Ukrainian drone attack has destroyed billions of dollars worth of Russian aircraft stationed at bases across the country, including at locations as far away as Siberia, in what Kyiv claims is its longest-range assault of the war.
The spectacular operation, known as Spiderweb, was prepared in secret over 18 months. Ukraine's agents moved short-range drones and explosives inside Russia before they were launched remotely for a coordinated strike on Sunday that was intended to strike at Moscow's air superiority.
A drone used in the attack
Vasyl Maliuk, the head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), said drones were smuggled into Russia and placed inside containers, which were later loaded on to trucks.
With the trucks positioned near Russian bases, the roof panels of the containers were lifted off by a remotely activated mechanism, allowing the drones to fly out and begin their attack. The drones had first-person view, or FPV, technology that allowed them to be operated remotely, probably from Ukrainian territory.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/02/operation-spiderweb-visual-guide-ukraine-drone-attack-russian-aircraft
(https://i.ibb.co/YGLngRF/20250602-19h29m06s-grim.jpg)
The main reason I'd say why Putin's Kremlin keeps mum is that any usage of this incident as provocation for escalation will only empower the more fanatical Ruzzist wing which could endanger Putin's delicate hold on the strings of power. The talks in Turkey on Monday could have featured speeches about Ukraine pushing the world towards WW3, followed by a list of ridiculous demands to "hold the terrorists responsible", then storming out of the meeting. There are no big threats being made by Putin or the usual suspects. Instead, evidence shows that Putin is trying to bury that the attack ever happened or that it was successful. Exactly what happened after HIMARS, F-16s, Patriots, you name it.
I see that Ukraine hit the Kerch bridge today. It is harder to destroy than a plane, but it will further annoy Putin.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/05/russian-casualties-ukraine-putin-war-toll/
"Overall, a high of 250,000 Russian soldiers have died in Ukraine, with over 950,000 total Russian casualties," notes a study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), an American think tank based in Washington, DC.
Russia seem to be getting a bit pissed off with the brits. I heard an interview with some spokesman on the radio talking about the UK influence on whatever that strike was that seemed to be a significant blow to them.
Russian apologist and propagandist Jeffry Sachs - promoted heavily on this board by a certain poster, appearing at Tsargrad 2025 alongside the likes of Errol Musk, Alex Jones, George Galloway (vomit), Max Blumnethal, not to mention the genocidal Sergei Lavrov and various Russian Oligarchs.
https://x.com/slantchev/status/1931771804466508111?s=46
A direct hit by a Russian-Iranian drone on an apartment block this morning.
https://x.com/wartranslated/status/1934885600827437290?s=46
A reminder that the murder of Ukrainian civilians continues day in - day out by Russia, aided and abetted by Iran.
For those of you that have a sneaking regard for Russia - hang your heads in shame. You know who you are.
Their son is buried in the rubble:
https://x.com/iuliiamendel/status/1934876692926837017?s=46
For those of you that have a sneaking regard for Russia - hang your heads in shame. You know who you are.
Odesa today:
https://x.com/lyla_lilas/status/1934874436542636348?s=46
The work of Russia, aided and abetted by Iran.
Meanwhile, the Taco won't SELL air defence capability to Ukraine and thinks Russia should still be in the G7 group.
Must blow the minds of some of the closet Russia/Iran fanboys on here. To be on the same side as Trump.
Footage of Russia dropping cluster munitions on the centre of Kyiv last night. Deliberate murder of civilians.
https://x.com/frontlinekit/status/1934937372027752466?s=46
"At 7:00 a.m., the bodies of five more victims were dug out from under the rubble of a partially destroyed building in Kyiv's Solomjanskyj district. A total of 21 people were killed and 134 injured in the capital."
https://x.com/jurgen_nauditt/status/1935218154612912218?s=46
Another night of indiscriminate death and destruction in Odesa.
https://x.com/zarinazabrisky/status/1935838572071862436?s=46
Not that any of you care a jot.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on June 20, 2025, 10:38:20 AMAnother night of indiscriminate death and destruction in Odesa.
https://x.com/zarinazabrisky/status/1935838572071862436?s=46
Not that any of you care a jot.
You talk some shite
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2025, 11:28:03 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on June 20, 2025, 10:38:20 AMAnother night of indiscriminate death and destruction in Odesa.
https://x.com/zarinazabrisky/status/1935838572071862436?s=46
Not that any of you care a jot.
You talk some shite
Oooh touched a nerve there eh Milltown.
Ukraine repel a massive missile attack overnight.
While the eyes of the world and GAAboard are elsewhere, Russia's relentless onslaught against Ukraine continues:
https://x.com/noelreports/status/1936328356707914049?s=46
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on June 21, 2025, 09:45:27 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2025, 11:28:03 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on June 20, 2025, 10:38:20 AMAnother night of indiscriminate death and destruction in Odesa.
https://x.com/zarinazabrisky/status/1935838572071862436?s=46
Not that any of you care a jot.
You talk some shite
Oooh touched a nerve there eh Milltown.
No, but stop tarring everyone on the board with the same brush. Just nasty when not needed..
State your point back it up with evidence and move on.. no one will agree with everything but no one will take you seriously if you keep that approach all the time.
I can literally seen venom spitting out in your posts. Not good for the stress
Meanwhile Putin again denies Ukrainian nationhood and declares that all of Ukraine is 'ours'.
https://x.com/frontlinekit/status/1936632709775847774?s=46
And idiots in the west will still prattle on about NATO.
NATO only ever posed a threat to Russia's ability to subjugate Ukraine, zero threat to Russia itself.
Although, with Taco in power in the US, Article 5 is pretty much useless.
Though I wouldn't be surprised if Trump had the neck to invoke Article 5 if Iran somehow managed to attack US soil.
At least another 9 dead in Kyiv last night:
https://x.com/maria_avdv/status/1937173666283839916?s=46
Russia continues its slaughter as the world does next to nothing. Oh wait, hasn't Russia been sanctioned, maybe bombs hitting apartment blocks and murdering civilians aren't as bad then.
Meanwhile the Taco refers to his friend Putin as "THE BOSS". Maybe being honest for the first time in his miserable life.
Russia struck a village in Sumy region overnight with a massive drone attack—3 killed, including an 8-year-old boy. Six more injured, among them 3 children. Around 30 homes damaged.
https://x.com/noelreports/status/1937388528503259397?s=46
Russia has struck a passenger train with a missile near Dnipro. There are dead and wounded.
https://x.com/den_kazansky/status/1937439383243628614?s=46
Another strike has hit a residential area in Dnipro City.
Russian murder and terrorism continues.
https://x.com/inebackiversen/status/1937429093189890389?s=46
Utter scum as are their apologists and excusers.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on June 24, 2025, 10:43:01 AMAnother strike has hit a residential area in Dnipro City.
Russian murder and terrorism continues.
https://x.com/inebackiversen/status/1937429093189890389?s=46
Utter scum as are their apologists and excusers.
Today's Russian strike killed 17 people and wounded 200 — including 19 children, regional officials report.
https://x.com/noelreports/status/1937539481176862812?s=46
Kremlin propagandist and all round thick **** Chay Bowes thinks Volodymr Zelenskyy is married to the Queen of the Netherlands.
https://x.com/iaponomarenko/status/1937787970502717696?s=46
Or more likely knows exactly who it is and just casually lies as per his job role.
During the latest attack on the city of Dnipro Russians damaged 19! schools, 10! kindergartens, 8! hospitals and clinics, more than 50 residential buildings.
One of the most massive attacks against Ukrainian civilians since the beginning of the full-scale war. They scaling up their terror campaign because fewer people are watching and they know they have a clear green light on killing Ukrainians without any consequences.
Trump blocking the new sanctions and not even allow to buy weapons for defense. Hungary and Slovakia blocking the new package in Europe while other countries not willing to put a real pressure on them. Spain trying to water down the plan of getting rid of Russian gas.
So of course, Kremlin is not afraid of murdering innocent in the most horrible ways just to break us. And it's so painful to watch how it's us who's paying for their indecisiveness with blood.
https://x.com/frialum/status/1937576747479994782?s=46
Trump' bid to get a noble peace prize looking shaky at the moment.
Nobody should be getting a peace prize who orders attacks that may lead to a lose of life
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 27, 2025, 11:23:02 AMTrump' bid to get a noble peace prize looking shaky at the moment.
Everything he does with regard to Ukraine is prolonging the war and encouraging Russia to keep doing what they are doing.
The russians executed a Ukrainian soldier by tying him to a motorcycle and dragging him along the road.
There's a video of it circulating online, which I will not share.
There are hundreds of such cases. Happen over and over again because russians never face consequences for their actions
https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1940024251634811254?s=46
The fascist Trump regime in the US has halted a weapons delivery to Ukraine already approved by Congress, including Patriot air defence missiles.
https://x.com/nickschifrin/status/1940158711772979533
The result of this will be prolonged war, more destruction and increased numbers of murdered Ukrainian civilians.
Last week, Trump also removed some sanctions on banks close to Putin.
Trump gives Putin two weeks for ceasefire progress, Putin instead massively escalates, and the US response is to halt weapons shipments to Ukraine and lift some sanctions.
Bravo.
Kyiv burning at dawn, hours after Trumps call with Putin.
https://x.com/berlin_bridge/status/1940980256527339933?s=46
Trump is giving Putin the green light to do this. Aiding him in murder now, in fact by refusing to even sell defensive systems that will save civilian lives.
Mark Rutte is probably still wondering how to please 'Daddy'.
European leaders will probably have another emergency meeting soon.
SchMerz will be thinking harder and harder and harder about whether or not to give Taurus to Ukraine.
USA stockpile of weapons running low. Luck trump and putin are bff
https://www.politico.eu/article/us-nato-eu-danish-prime-minister-mette-frederiksen-ukraine/
a bit more info.
I was told the Russian orcs were being eliminated and massive blows were being inflicted daily by the brave men and women of Ukraine.
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 04, 2025, 11:10:09 AMUSA stockpile of weapons running low. Luck trump and putin are bff
All given to Satanyahu to murder Palestinians!
Quote from: Rossfan on July 04, 2025, 12:22:51 PMQuote from: Denn Forever on July 04, 2025, 11:10:09 AMUSA stockpile of weapons running low. Luck trump and putin are bff
All given to Satanyahu to murder Palestinians!
You're probably right.
It feels like Trump has his mind made up that Ukraine is going to lose and Russia will take over so why throw good money after bad. Whereas Israel is a sure thing.
I've always wondered, when we talk about giving weapons, does the US sell those weapons to Israel/Ukraine or do they donate? Possibly a stupid question - but the terminology used always seems to be "given" or "supplied".
I'm assuming sold, and if they are selling the weapons, where is Israel getting all the money for a country that size?
Ukraine I assume are going into huge debt?
Would that be the driving factor behind where the weapons go? More money for them in Israel?
The UK only paid its war debts to the US in 2014, that was for world war 1!
Not sure they've paid off ww2 yet
I doubt they give these weapons for 'free' be some mad financial repayment for this
Puts the pandemic spending madness into perspective. It was 75% of what WW1 cost the UK and under half of WW2 spending.
Excellent Dale, Russia & Covid within a few posts 👏
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 04, 2025, 11:10:09 AMUSA stockpile of weapons running low. Luck trump and putin are bff
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 04, 2025, 11:10:09 AMUSA stockpile of weapons running low. Luck trump and putin are bff
Stocks are not running low. The Fox News drunkard has gone on a solo run (again). Hopefully his decision will be overturned (again).
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/05/hegseth-weapons-shipments-ukraine
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 04, 2025, 01:55:15 PMQuote from: Rossfan on July 04, 2025, 12:22:51 PMQuote from: Denn Forever on July 04, 2025, 11:10:09 AMUSA stockpile of weapons running low. Luck trump and putin are bff
All given to Satanyahu to murder Palestinians!
You're probably right.
It feels like Trump has his mind made up that Ukraine is going to lose and Russia will take over so why throw good money after bad. Whereas Israel is a sure thing.
I've always wondered, when we talk about giving weapons, does the US sell those weapons to Israel/Ukraine or do they donate? Possibly a stupid question - but the terminology used always seems to be "given" or "supplied".
I'm assuming sold, and if they are selling the weapons, where is Israel getting all the money for a country that size?
Ukraine I assume are going into huge debt?
Would that be the driving factor behind where the weapons go? More money for them in Israel?
Everything transferred under Biden will not be 'repaid'. I put repaid in '' because as I see it, the US owes Ukraine, big time, for the Budapest Memorandum f*ckup.
That didn't stop Trump trying to make Ukraine backpay for everything the US transferred to Ukraine in an earlier version of his minerals deal.
Despite US obligations to Ukraine, I would imagine everything transferred since Trump came in will be purchased, including that approved and authorised previously under Biden being transferred now. (Or was being transferred until the Fox News drunkard put the brakes on it)
Quote from: DaleCooper on July 04, 2025, 11:24:22 AMI was told the Russian orcs were being eliminated and massive blows were being inflicted daily by the brave men and women of Ukraine.
Despite your idiotic and tasteless sarcasm, you were correctly informed.
Russian orcs are being eliminated.
Massive blows are being inflicted.
The men and women of Ukraine are indeed among the bravest on the planet. They would have already won this war but for the dithering of the cowardly western leaders and now they have to contend with Trump as well.
BBC News - Russian minister sacked by Putin found dead
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7nvxzrvr0o
Quote from: bennydorano on July 07, 2025, 06:37:25 PMBBC News - Russian minister sacked by Putin found dead
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7nvxzrvr0o
Why bother sacking him? Just kill him like the others.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on July 06, 2025, 12:35:36 PMQuote from: Denn Forever on July 04, 2025, 11:10:09 AMUSA stockpile of weapons running low. Luck trump and putin are bff
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 04, 2025, 11:10:09 AMUSA stockpile of weapons running low. Luck trump and putin are bff
Stocks are not running low. The Fox News drunkard has gone on a solo run (again). Hopefully his decision will be overturned (again).
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/05/hegseth-weapons-shipments-ukraine
And it now looks like there will be another u-turn on defensive weapons for Ukraine.
Trump stated in a phone call with Zelenskyy that it wasn't him who stopped the weapons. Anybody's guess if that is true or not.
Elbridge Colby, 3rd in command at the Pentagon and vociferously anti-Ukraine, appears to be the main villain.
Russia's war effort now runs on crypto-mobilization and censored death stats
ISW report Euromaidan (https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/07/07/russias-war-effort-now-runs-on-crypto-mobilization-and-censored-death-stats/)
Russian stat bureau Rosstat disappears mortality data just as Putin calls for more volunteers to defend "values"
Putin has repeatedly avoided declaring another mobilization and instead relies on crypto-mobilization methods to reinforce his forces.
While pushing for more volunteers, the Russian government has quietly erased key mortality data from public view. On 5 July, opposition outlet Meduza reported that the Russian Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat) excluded demographic statistics from its "Socioeconomic Situation in Russia" report covering January to May 2025.
Additionally, electoral statistics researcher Dmitry Kobak said in late June that Rosstat had declined his requests for 2024 data on male excess mortality and monthly death counts by actual date of death.
ISW previously assessed that Rosstat is concealing population data "likely also aims to obscure the Russian military's high personnel loss rates."
Quote from: bennydorano on July 07, 2025, 06:37:25 PMBBC News - Russian minister sacked by Putin found dead
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7nvxzrvr0o
Moscow Times (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/07/08/kremlin-shocked-by-apparent-suicide-of-ex-transportation-minister-a89720)
Kremlin 'Shocked' by Apparent Suicide of Ex-Transportation MinisterThe Kremlin said Tuesday that it was "shocked" by the apparent suicide of former Transportation Minister Roman Starovoit, who was found dead with a gunshot wound just hours after President Vladimir Putin dismissed him on Monday.
(https://media.tenor.com/pJnatjvzCsoAAAAM/casablanca-shocked.gif)
Quote from: Main Street on July 08, 2025, 06:00:06 PMQuote from: bennydorano on July 07, 2025, 06:37:25 PMBBC News - Russian minister sacked by Putin found dead
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7nvxzrvr0o
Moscow Times (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/07/08/kremlin-shocked-by-apparent-suicide-of-ex-transportation-minister-a89720)
Kremlin 'Shocked' by Apparent Suicide of Ex-Transportation Minister
The Kremlin said Tuesday that it was "shocked" by the apparent suicide of former Transportation Minister Roman Starovoit, who was found dead with a gunshot wound just hours after President Vladimir Putin dismissed him on Monday.
(https://media.tenor.com/pJnatjvzCsoAAAAM/casablanca-shocked.gif)
Usually they have 3 gunshot wounds when they commit suicide.
America has some prize lunatics
https://youtu.be/kmxIcfyMatE?si=H1moS88EwW6617Ed
The terror bombing of Ukrainian cities continues unabated. 31 dead in yesterdays attacks on Kyiv, inclusive 5 children.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/aug/01/live-european-news-updates-kyiv-ukraine-russia-latest
Talks kick off today in Alaska. Putin will run rings around Trump.
Trump will try to give away most of Ukraine, grab the mineral rights and bar them from Nato. And if Ukraine refuses, withdraw support.
What he won't do is sanction Russia. He'll give them 'two more weeks' to comply.
Fair play to significant crowds in Anchorage who turned out with Ukrainian flags.
Trump achieved little except legitimising Putin. He was like a giddy school kid waiting to greet him off the plane.
When he meets Zelensky, it will be hostile.
Quote from: Dag Dog on August 15, 2025, 03:50:58 PMTalks kick off today in Alaska. Putin will run rings around Trump.
Trump will try to give away most of Ukraine, grab the mineral rights and bar them from Nato. And if Ukraine refuses, withdraw support.
What he won't do is sanction Russia. He'll give them 'two more weeks' to comply.
Trump rolls out the red carpet to his war criminal buddy boy.
Russia makes zero concessions.
The urgent necessity for an immediate ceasefire (that Ukraine accepted 5 months ago) has vanished into thin air.
And it's now apparently all 'up to Zelenskyy'.
Little wonder Putin was grinning.
Trump has done little other than encourage the Russians and will make this war longer and bloodier.
The only way there will ever be an end to this conflict is if Ukraine is properly supported and armed and Russia is sanctioned and starved of its main sources of revenue (oil and gas). Anything else and it will go on and on and on.
https://www.ft.com/content/6b0b
4912-9438-4de0-aebe-2a8dd804cbab
Vladimir Putin has demanded Ukraine withdraw from the Donetsk and Luhansk regions as a condition for ending Russia's war but told Donald Trump he could freeze the rest of the frontline if his core demands were met.
Quote from: seafoid on August 16, 2025, 05:07:59 PMhttps://www.ft.com/content/6b0b
4912-9438-4de0-aebe-2a8dd804cbab
Vladimir Putin has demanded Ukraine withdraw from the Donetsk and Luhansk regions as a condition for ending Russia's war but told Donald Trump he could freeze the rest of the frontline if his core demands were met.
He's a good negotiator. Aim high and split the difference.
https://www.ft.com/content/2e83d17f-92fc-4b20-bd11-d9740791c6b8
As it becomes clear that Russia is stepping up its attacks on Ukraine, with further civilian casualties, Trump may become frustrated and disillusioned with Putin. At that point, it could be possible to get the US to refocus on expanding sanctions on Russia — and increasing aid to Ukraine. Meanwhile the war grinds on.
Quote from: seafoid on August 16, 2025, 09:13:19 PMhttps://www.ft.com/content/2e83d17f-92fc-4b20-bd11-d9740791c6b8
As it becomes clear that Russia is stepping up its attacks on Ukraine, with further civilian casualties, Trump may become frustrated and disillusioned with Putin. At that point, it could be possible to get the US to refocus on expanding sanctions on Russia — and increasing aid to Ukraine. Meanwhile the war grinds on.
Is that article from a few months ago? We've been here already.
Problem is Biden and getting backing and approval in america for sending heavy arms from day 1 and giving Ukraine total bcking, we would not be a position where Russia encamped on 4 massive regions. Plus how many conscription age men fled the country early doors when it looked like Russia gonna fold them in the first 2 weeks. Few returned.
Smart. Wouldn't fancy dying for literally nothing, wonder what the Yanks are gonna use to solve the demographic issue of so many missing Ukrainian men once its over. Economy not gonna run on hopes and dreams.
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 16, 2025, 10:22:18 PMSmart. Wouldn't fancy dying for literally nothing, wonder what the Yanks are gonna use to solve the demographic issue of so many missing Ukrainian men once its over. Economy not gonna run on hopes and dreams.
Ukrainians aren't dying for 'literally nothing'. They know exactly what they are fighting for. Their struggle against Russia is centuries old.
As for those who don't want to fight, I can't say I blame them, we only have one life.
p.s. I hope your concerns for the US economy don't keep you up at night, distressing as they must be.
Obvious that Ukraine means more to thr yanks than Palestine. For this reason I honestly couldn't give 2 shits what happens to Ukraine.
Help out Palestine first and I'll reconsider
The Ukrainian economy as implied by the missing Ukrainian men.
400,000 Ukrainians killed or wounded acc to NYT, 1 million Ruskies.
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 16, 2025, 11:02:51 PMThe Ukrainian economy as implied by the missing Ukrainian men.
400,000 Ukrainians killed or wounded acc to NYT, 1 million Ruskies.
I assumed the 'missing' Ukrainian men you were referring to were those abroad, as that was the subject at hand.
What makes you think it's the yanks problem to solve Ukraine's demographic issue when this war is over? Trump is currently in the business of enabling Russia to force 5 million or so Ukrainians to become Russian, you think they give a shit Ukraine's demographics?
p.s. that land Trump is trying to give away...people live there and that is one of the things Ukrainians are fighting and dying for. Not 'literally nothing'.
Quote from: An Watcher on August 16, 2025, 11:00:39 PMObvious that Ukraine means more to thr yanks than Palestine. For this reason I honestly couldn't give 2 shits what happens to Ukraine.
Help out Palestine first and I'll reconsider
Possibly the most moronic post I've seen on GAABoard and that's includes Skull's mad ramblings.
Russia is murdering Ukrainian civilians, including little children but you don't give two shits... because you apparently care so much about little children being murdered in Palestine, or so you would have us believe.
You're either against murder or you're not. You don't give a f**k about dead children in Palestine or Ukraine or anywhere else for that matter. You just hate the US.
Maybe you'll delete that in the morning when you sober up. Maybe not.
Big series of meetings today in the US.
Can Zelenskyy and the European leaders turn Trump away from his current course of forcing Ukraine to surrender to Russia? Trump has framed surrender as Ukraine being able to have 'peace immediately'.
Trump has also again ruled out NATO for Ukraine in favour of some non-specific 'robust' NATO-style security guarantees (whatever the f**k that means) Most likely useless like all the guarantees, commitments, promises and assurances Ukraine received in the past.
There are also some reports that Russia has, laughably, mooted 'enshrining into law' a promise not to invade Ukraine again or any other European country.
It's good that Zelenskyy has back up this time, meaning Trump and that wee rat Vance will find it a lot harder to ambush him like they did previously.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on August 16, 2025, 11:34:24 PMQuote from: An Watcher on August 16, 2025, 11:00:39 PMObvious that Ukraine means more to thr yanks than Palestine. For this reason I honestly couldn't give 2 shits what happens to Ukraine.
Help out Palestine first and I'll reconsider
Possibly the most moronic post I've seen on GAABoard and that's includes Skull's mad ramblings.
Russia is murdering Ukrainian civilians, including little children but you don't give two shits... because you apparently care so much about little children being murdered in Palestine, or so you would have us believe.
You're either against murder or you're not. You don't give a f**k about dead children in Palestine or Ukraine or anywhere else for that matter. You just hate the US.
Maybe you'll delete that in the morning when you sober up. Maybe not.
Yes, a lot of sneaking regard for Putin because he's a thorn in the side of 'The West'.
Dale you don't sound like you cut it in the war of independence in Ireland, was that all for nothing?
Too young for that and the more recent one in the North. Presume you did your duty?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GyeRAyYXEAAd1oQ?format=jpg&name=small)
Darth Putin @DarthPutinKGB Aug 16
What I've got for 1 million casualties:
No new NATO members❌
NATO back to 91 line❌
No 🇺🇦 long range strike ability❌
🇺🇦 army to be small❌
🇺🇦allowed no aid when we attack again❌
Crimea is 🇷🇺❌
🇷🇺 gets security guarantees❌
I remain a master strategist
Darth Putin @DarthPutinKGB (https://x.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1958103884083220914)
OTD in 1968 Soviet Russia invaded to save Czechoslovakia from the Prague Spring. Some of these tanks are in Ukraine today.
We said we were protecting them from Nazis. Imagine such a bullshit excuse today...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GyyVGtwXEAEkOCn?format=jpg&name=small)
Darth Putin@DarthPutinKGB (https://x.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1958147763381928355)
·
August 20
'OTD in 1991 Estonia proclaimed re-independence.
Russia is the leading provider of European independence days.
What actually happened was the Estonian Supreme Soviet (CIA front) in agreement with the Congress of Estonia (another CIA front) declared Soviet occupation illegal & proclaimed restoration of Estonian independence.
They did this cos Soviet troops had originally come to Estonia as a result of absolutely nothing to do with the secret clause of the Molotov Ribbentrop pact in 1939'
Actually the Molotov Ribbentrop pact in which USSR and Germany as allies started WW2, is the only treaty the Kremlin have ever honored and they did so dutifully
Putin is negotiating with Trump to be gifted territory his armies haven't manage to capture yet, after 3.5 years.
If Trump was President during the Good Friday Agreement peace talks, Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan would have been handed back to Britain.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on August 20, 2025, 03:26:07 PMPutin is negotiating with Trump to be gifted territory his armies haven't manage to capture yet, after 3.5 years.
If Trump was President during the Good Friday Agreement peace talks, Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan would have been handed back to Britain.
He wants it because he can't conquer it. It's also Ukraines most fortified defensive line.
If Russia was gifted the rest of Donetsk it would leave the rest of Ukraine much more vulnerable and difficult to defend.
This is obviously Putin's plan. He is not interested in peace.
Ukraine won't be duped into giving it up for some wishy-washy security assurances. Who would trust Donald Trump or the European talking shop to back you up when the shit inevitably hits the fan again?
Bundestag Vice President Omid Nouripour said on Tuesday on the TV programme "Frühstart" that Ursula von der Leyen was made to leave the room during Trump's meeting with European leaders in Washington. "In the middle of yesterday's meeting ... Ms. von der Leyen had to leave because the Americans said: 'We only want to talk to leaders.'"
According to Nouripour, the EU Commission President was kicked out of the room because the American politicians do not regard her as an elected head of a state.
EU getting reminders on the pecking order.
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 20, 2025, 09:58:59 PMBundestag Vice President Omid Nouripour said on Tuesday on the TV programme "Frühstart" that Ursula von der Leyen was made to leave the room during Trump's meeting with European leaders in Washington. "In the middle of yesterday's meeting ... Ms. von der Leyen had to leave because the Americans said: 'We only want to talk to leaders.'"
According to Nouripour, the EU Commission President was kicked out of the room because the American politicians do not regard her as an elected head of a state.
EU getting reminders on the pecking order.
Whats your point except to furthur amplify idiocy? Your beloved Russia is fcked on all levels. Their ace agent Trump totally failed to impress upon the european leaders the great Russian (so called) land swap plan. As they all gazed upon the mega sized map of Ukraine marking out occupied and unoccupied territory, Zelensky quipped something to the effect of 'see how much territory we have to regain'.
Putin's trip to Alaska has provided little of real gain for Russia apart from some temporary homespun propaganda, Russia is still fcked economically, even the gas prices are rising amidst chronic shortages, long queues at petrol stations and that for a fuel producing nation. The Russian military are struggling, shedding thousands per meter gained. Ukraine is taking out their logistic capabilities and pounding their oil refineries. The Russian Central bank has used up most of the national assets in order to fund the war. Bonuses for new (meat assault) recruits have been drastically cut and it so follows recruitment figures have dropped by half.
Though Putin doth remain the great strategist.
The Kremlin claims the CIA killed Navalny
Darth Putin @DarthPutinKGB (https://x.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1958085698776453496)
OTD in 2020 Navalny was poisoned. A short history..
A Russian in Russia, under close surveillance by Russian intelligence, left a hotel in Russia & got on a Russian plane going from Russia to Russia & consumed a Russian nerve agent only Russia has it done by the CIA.
Then that irrelevant Russian, while in a coma, was given permission to leave Russia personally by the president of Russia so that when he returned to Russia he was arrested for leaving Russia without permission & put in a Russian jail.
That Russian, while in a Russian jail, in remote Russia, guarded by Russians, went for a walk under close surveillance by armed Russian prison guards & returned alone to his high security Russian jail cell where the CIA killed him.
The end.
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 20, 2025, 09:58:59 PMBundestag Vice President Omid Nouripour said on Tuesday on the TV programme "Frühstart" that Ursula von der Leyen was made to leave the room during Trump's meeting with European leaders in Washington. "In the middle of yesterday's meeting ... Ms. von der Leyen had to leave because the Americans said: 'We only want to talk to leaders.'"
According to Nouripour, the EU Commission President was kicked out of the room because the American politicians do not regard her as an elected head of a state.
EU getting reminders on the pecking order.
The further that witch is kept from power the better tbh.
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 21, 2025, 06:49:59 AMQuote from: DaleCooper on August 20, 2025, 09:58:59 PMBundestag Vice President Omid Nouripour said on Tuesday on the TV programme "Frühstart" that Ursula von der Leyen was made to leave the room during Trump's meeting with European leaders in Washington. "In the middle of yesterday's meeting ... Ms. von der Leyen had to leave because the Americans said: 'We only want to talk to leaders.'"
According to Nouripour, the EU Commission President was kicked out of the room because the American politicians do not regard her as an elected head of a state.
EU getting reminders on the pecking order.
The further that witch is kept from power the better tbh.
I am not an admirer of von der Leyen, but you can hardly call Putin an elected leader either, if you have any interest in fair elections. America has no problem talking to Putin.
Quote from: Main Street on February 12, 2022, 09:38:45 PMPutin has repeatedly denied that Russia will invade despite the obvious evidence of warmongering and army deployments. I'm bending towards the worth of that promise. I very much doubt that he would go back on such a public promise. And it's unlikely considering Russia's expressed concern over the issue, that Ukraine will join with Nato.
Back in the good old days. Despite surrounding the border with tanks, he'd never do it, would he?
Got more than he bargained for. Now he wants peace only if he hold on to areas he's captured, will he let Ukraine keep the bits of russia Ukraine have captured?
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2025, 10:29:53 AMQuote from: Main Street on February 12, 2022, 09:38:45 PMPutin has repeatedly denied that Russia will invade despite the obvious evidence of warmongering and army deployments. I'm bending towards the worth of that promise. I very much doubt that he would go back on such a public promise. And it's unlikely considering Russia's expressed concern over the issue, that Ukraine will join with Nato.
Back in the good old days. Despite surrounding the border with tanks, he'd never do it, would he?
Got more than he bargained for. Now he wants peace only if he hold on to areas he's captured, will he let Ukraine keep the bits of russia Ukraine have captured?
Putin doesn't want peace, he wants Ukraine destroyed.
Anything gained by Russia during Trump's hamfisted attempts at winning a Nobel Peace Prize will be a stepping stone towards this goal, nothing more.
Ukraine will not give up their fortress cities in Donetsk in exchange for useless security guarantees from the west.
Negotiations with Russia are useless anyway, they do not keep their word on anything. Anyone who believes otherwise has their head in the clouds.
The only way towards peace in Ukraine is to crush Russia, militarily and economically. Only then they might be forced to genuinely come to the table.
Or preferably maybe their corrupt cesspool of an empire will finally collapse.
Will the GAABoard 'anti-imperialsts' rejoice at that?
Liberation for millions of ethnic minorities that have been subjugated and exploited and had their natural resources plundered for centuries.
This is all getting abit dramatic now
When and if this does die down in the nxt couple of years I hope the whole of sport shows abit of balls and not let Russia compete at anything 20+yrs. They managed to blot out South Africa for so many yrs and the same approach is needed here. It's a disgrace Israeli allowed to compete at the minute. How were they allowed in European related sport anyway. In Hindsight the USA invaded Iraq 2nd time and Afghanistan based on nothing, look at the mess they left them countries, yet Ireland all too ready to reach out and kiss americas ass as it depends in all the big companies based over here.
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2025, 10:29:53 AMQuote from: Main Street on February 12, 2022, 09:38:45 PMPutin has repeatedly denied that Russia will invade despite the obvious evidence of warmongering and army deployments. I'm bending towards the worth of that promise. I very much doubt that he would go back on such a public promise. And it's unlikely considering Russia's expressed concern over the issue, that Ukraine will join with Nato.
Back in the good old days. Despite surrounding the border with tanks, he'd never do it, would he?
Got more than he bargained for. Now he wants peace only if he hold on to areas he's captured, will he let Ukraine keep the bits of russia Ukraine have captured?
There was a lot of stuff that people got wrong in Feb 2022, not least that Russia had a super power military. After more than 3 years past the the 3 day conquest deadline, the penny has probably dropped that Russia has a Lada like military but has drone warfare capability (which it copied from Ukraine and Iran).
The peace plan that the Kremlin probably would accept is not based on current lines of occupation but one that demands the concession of the rest of the unoccupied Donbas region which the ISW predict would take Russia 4 years to conquer. That is of course if Russia could continue to function as a state that is capable of financing such a conquest and a populace nonchalant about an added 4 million casualties.
But the pesky Ukrainians are not about to give up the rest of the well fortified Donbas in exchange for a vague ceasefire, and which would leave the rest of (free) Ukraine highly vulnerable to further Russian aggression.
Quote from: Main Street on August 24, 2025, 12:01:51 AMQuote from: Denn Forever on August 23, 2025, 10:29:53 AMQuote from: Main Street on February 12, 2022, 09:38:45 PMPutin has repeatedly denied that Russia will invade despite the obvious evidence of warmongering and army deployments. I'm bending towards the worth of that promise. I very much doubt that he would go back on such a public promise. And it's unlikely considering Russia's expressed concern over the issue, that Ukraine will join with Nato.
Back in the good old days. Despite surrounding the border with tanks, he'd never do it, would he?
Got more than he bargained for. Now he wants peace only if he hold on to areas he's captured, will he let Ukraine keep the bits of russia Ukraine have captured?
There was a lot of stuff that people got wrong in Feb 2022, not least that Russia had a super power military. After more than 3 years past the the 3 day conquest deadline, the penny has probably dropped that Russia has a Lada like military but has drone warfare capability (which it copied from Ukraine and Iran).
The peace plan that the Kremlin probably would accept is not based on current lines of occupation but one that demands the concession of the rest of the unoccupied Donbas region which the ISW predict would take Russia 4 years to conquer. That is of course if Russia could continue to function as a state that is capable of financing such a conquest and a populace nonchalant about an added 4 million casualties.
But the pesky Ukrainians are not about to give up the rest of the well fortified Donbas in exchange for a vague ceasefire, and which would leave the rest of (free) Ukraine highly vulnerable to further Russian aggression.
Correct plus Russia's peace plan has nothing to do with peace whatsoever. I'd give it six months to a year before they'd be at it again. As a reaction to Ukrainian provocation along the front line of course.....
According to Comical Lavrov, Russia's idea of a plan for a cessation of war is that the (Russian) agenda is set before any talks.
That agenda is complete with non-negotiable Russian demands, such as
Ukraine retreat and surrender the rest of the Donbas (aka. the land swap)
Russia would have a veto on Ukraine's national security above and beyond all the other Ukraine 'allies'.
Ukraine's weaponry, tanks, artillery mortars etc are to be stored in warehouses under Russian guard. Should the AFU want to use eg. a mortar, they would have to apply for permission.
AFU to be limited to 80,000 in numbers.
Russian language be made 2nd official language,
New parliamentary and presidential elections to be held where most probably should some one like Zaluzhnyi, ambassador to the U.K. and Ukraine's former commander-in-chief be elected, the Kremlin would be screaming nazis! nazis! nazis! NATO puppet, foment dissent and manufacture a pretext for their invasion part 3. Russia will demand a compliant government, otherwise...
BTW, Russian imposed as an official language is part of the Kremlin´s playbook, their conduit to impress propaganda influence upon Russian planters in the Baltic States and keep the aggrieved pot simmering.
Russia's peace plan is Ukrainian surrender, just like the one Boris Johnson was accused of 'torpedoing' in 2022. Who will the tankies and 'anti-imperialists' blame this time?
When tankies shout 'peace', the above list of demands is what they want.
What are "tankies"?
Quote from: Rossfan on August 26, 2025, 12:44:56 PMWhat are "tankies"?
I'm sure you already know, but ChatGPT will help you:
OriginsThe term "tankie" first appeared in the 1950s/60s to describe members of the Communist Party of Great Britain who supported the Soviet Union sending tanks into Hungary (1956) and Czechoslovakia (1968) to crush uprisings.
It came to mean a hardline, authoritarian leftist who would justify Soviet or other communist military interventions, no matter how brutal.
In the Ukraine war context
Today, when people say "tankie," they usually mean:
Someone on the far left who reflexively defends or excuses Russia's actions in Ukraine, often framing NATO or the West as the main aggressors.
They may downplay Russian atrocities, push pro-Kremlin narratives, or argue that Ukraine is simply a NATO proxy war.
The term gets thrown around more loosely online to mean anyone with uncritically pro-Russian or anti-Western talking points, even if they don't identify as communist.
Surely Russia can no longer be considered to be on the left of politics? With Putin, oligarchs et al they are surely what should be considered far right?
Absolutely, and a gaggle of Orthodox Clerics at every State function.
Quote from: Mad Mentor on August 26, 2025, 01:55:29 PMSurely Russia can no longer be considered to be on the left of politics? With Putin, oligarchs et al they are surely what should be considered far right?
Obviously yes, but somehow the Far Left in Ireland still hold a candle for them - People Before Profit heads like Boy Barrett and Paul Murphy, Mick Wallace, Clare Daly, Catherine Connolly etc.
It could be nostalgia for the old world order pre-1989, before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Or else a hatred of western-ism where they would hitch their wagons onto any crackpot regime like Russia, North Korea etc.
Quote from: Dag Dog on August 26, 2025, 02:28:35 PMQuote from: Mad Mentor on August 26, 2025, 01:55:29 PMSurely Russia can no longer be considered to be on the left of politics? With Putin, oligarchs et al they are surely what should be considered far right?
Obviously yes, but somehow the Far Left in Ireland still hold a candle for them - People Before Profit heads like Boy Barrett and Paul Murphy, Mick Wallace, Clare Daly, Catherine Connolly etc.
It could be nostalgia for the old world order pre-1989, before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Or else a hatred of western-ism where they would hitch their wagons onto any crackpot regime like Russia, North Korea etc.
It's the latter.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 26, 2025, 02:25:30 PMAbsolutely, and a gaggle of Orthodox Clerics at every State function.
KGB with beards.
At least a dozen dead overnight in Kyiv including children.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-trump-zelenskyy-putin-drones-latest-live-updates-12541713
Russia is not interested in peace. They are continuing their policy of trying to murder and terrorise Ukrainians into capitulation.
Do the tankies, selective anti-imperialists and not the real Dale Cooper feel ashamed of themselves now for believing and spreading the propaganda of these monsters?
Some difference (though not surprising) regarding political reaction to this tragedy compared to what Cuntanyahu does basically every day of the week.
Quote from: LC on August 28, 2025, 11:06:14 AMSome difference (though not surprising) regarding political reaction to this tragedy compared to what Cuntanyahu does basically every day of the week.
Most sane people disapprove of both?
Quote from: Dag Dog on August 28, 2025, 11:14:46 AMQuote from: LC on August 28, 2025, 11:06:14 AMSome difference (though not surprising) regarding political reaction to this tragedy compared to what Cuntanyahu does basically every day of the week.
Most sane people disapprove of both?
see what names you are called when you call for a ceasefire in both..
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 28, 2025, 11:31:52 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on August 28, 2025, 11:14:46 AMQuote from: LC on August 28, 2025, 11:06:14 AMSome difference (though not surprising) regarding political reaction to this tragedy compared to what Cuntanyahu does basically every day of the week.
Most sane people disapprove of both?
see what names you are called when you call for a ceasefire in both..
How about calling for Russia to withdraw and Israel to withdraw?
Wouldn't you prefer that?
Quote from: Dag Dog on August 28, 2025, 11:33:19 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 28, 2025, 11:31:52 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on August 28, 2025, 11:14:46 AMQuote from: LC on August 28, 2025, 11:06:14 AMSome difference (though not surprising) regarding political reaction to this tragedy compared to what Cuntanyahu does basically every day of the week.
Most sane people disapprove of both?
see what names you are called when you call for a ceasefire in both..
How about calling for Russia to withdraw and Israel to withdraw?
Wouldn't you prefer that?
that's what wallace and daly called for.... I would prefer that but surely that requires a ceasefire.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 28, 2025, 11:36:26 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on August 28, 2025, 11:33:19 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 28, 2025, 11:31:52 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on August 28, 2025, 11:14:46 AMQuote from: LC on August 28, 2025, 11:06:14 AMSome difference (though not surprising) regarding political reaction to this tragedy compared to what Cuntanyahu does basically every day of the week.
Most sane people disapprove of both?
see what names you are called when you call for a ceasefire in both..
How about calling for Russia to withdraw and Israel to withdraw?
Wouldn't you prefer that?
that's what wallace and daly called for.... I would prefer that but surely that requires a ceasefire.
Mick is pumping out Kremlin propaganda to beat the band. It's not just Ukraine he has a problem with, he circulates propaganda against other neighbours under threat from Moscow.
Here he is complaining about Latvia taking down the statues paying homage to their USSR occupiers.
https://x.com/wallacemick/status/1698280922829701498
your link states that that was also the position of UN Human Rights watch but honestly I know nothing of that particular issue.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on August 28, 2025, 10:41:19 AMAt least a dozen dead overnight in Kyiv including children.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-trump-zelenskyy-putin-drones-latest-live-updates-12541713
Russia is not interested in peace. They are continuing their policy of trying to murder and terrorise Ukrainians into capitulation.
Do the tankies, selective anti-imperialists and not the real Dale Cooper feel ashamed of themselves now for believing and spreading the propaganda of these monsters?
Dale Cooper is a fictional character in the classic American Television show "Twin Peaks". An FBI agent portrayed by Kyle MacLachlan.
Is he a GAA man
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 28, 2025, 11:36:26 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on August 28, 2025, 11:33:19 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 28, 2025, 11:31:52 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on August 28, 2025, 11:14:46 AMQuote from: LC on August 28, 2025, 11:06:14 AMSome difference (though not surprising) regarding political reaction to this tragedy compared to what Cuntanyahu does basically every day of the week.
Most sane people disapprove of both?
see what names you are called when you call for a ceasefire in both..
How about calling for Russia to withdraw and Israel to withdraw?
Wouldn't you prefer that?
that's what wallace and daly called for.... I would prefer that but surely that requires a ceasefire.
Oh that's all very nice but Wallace and Daly were also calling for Ukraine not to be given any arms in order to defend itself, Wallace even calling it 'madness'.
So, what happens when Putin ignores Walace and Daly's and PHP's call for withdrawal and Ukraine also has no defensive weapons?
Totally disingenuous.
Oh, btw, how are your calls for a ceasefire going? You know, the unconditional ceasefire Ukraine agreed to 6 months ago and Russia has refused to even consider.
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 28, 2025, 12:40:02 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on August 28, 2025, 10:41:19 AMAt least a dozen dead overnight in Kyiv including children.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-trump-zelenskyy-putin-drones-latest-live-updates-12541713
Russia is not interested in peace. They are continuing their policy of trying to murder and terrorise Ukrainians into capitulation.
Do the tankies, selective anti-imperialists and not the real Dale Cooper feel ashamed of themselves now for believing and spreading the propaganda of these monsters?
Dale Cooper is a fictional character in the classic American Television show "Twin Peaks". An FBI agent portrayed by Kyle MacLachlan.
I am fully aware of who Dale Cooper is.
Is dale cooper A GAA MAN?
Quote from: jb77 on August 28, 2025, 02:02:22 PMIs dale cooper A GAA MAN?
He is...
(https://i.imgflip.com/922veo.jpg)
Got a good laugh at least, surely thon lad would be better used as ordnance via catapult.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on August 28, 2025, 01:51:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 28, 2025, 11:36:26 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on August 28, 2025, 11:33:19 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 28, 2025, 11:31:52 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on August 28, 2025, 11:14:46 AMQuote from: LC on August 28, 2025, 11:06:14 AMSome difference (though not surprising) regarding political reaction to this tragedy compared to what Cuntanyahu does basically every day of the week.
Most sane people disapprove of both?
see what names you are called when you call for a ceasefire in both..
How about calling for Russia to withdraw and Israel to withdraw?
Wouldn't you prefer that?
that's what wallace and daly called for.... I would prefer that but surely that requires a ceasefire.
Oh that's all very nice but Wallace and Daly were also calling for Ukraine not to be given any arms in order to defend itself, Wallace even calling it 'madness'.
So, what happens when Putin ignores Walace and Daly's and PHP's call for withdrawal and Ukraine also has no defensive weapons?
Totally disingenuous.
Oh, btw, how are your calls for a ceasefire going? You know, the unconditional ceasefire Ukraine agreed to 6 months ago and Russia has refused to even consider.
Well Wallace and Daly have an excuse for supporting Russia, they are most probably well lubricated with the Kremlin's pieces of silver. And they are also diehard supporters of Syria's ex-tyrant Assad, North Korea, China and Iran. They both have not wavered from their dedicated Stalinist like position.
But what excuse does presidential candidate Catherine Connolly have for coming out against aid to Ukraine? she cried crocodile tears over the plight of Ukraine after the full scale invasion but campaigned against selling /providing weapons in order for Ukraine to defend itself. That's sky kissing stupidity.
But the special award for sky kissing hypocrisy goes to Sinn Fein. Their leader M.L McDonald was/is LOUD in criticism of Russia and oozed boundless sympathy for the plight of Ukrainians.Yet Sinn Fein's euro mps not only vote against military aid but also humanitarian aid for Ukraine.
Anytime a Sinn Fein spokesperson has a word about Ukraine they feel compelled to mention NATO aggression. Probably they and others on the so called Irish left are referring to the US politician Victoria Nuland, who passed around cookies to civil rights protestors in Kiev 2014, protests which eventually brought down the Kremlin's stooge Yanukovych, who fled to (of all places) Moscow. Victoria's interference and obvious partisan support was evidence of the great NATO plot.
Russia and their useful Irish idiots call that a NATO inspired coup, yet there has been 2 free and fair general/presidential elections since where incidentally far right nationalist received a minuscule of the votes did not get anyone elected. An Irish equivalent to Ukraine's Maidan 2014 would be the Battle of Bogside 1968 which brought down the Stormont regime to its knees. But therein ends those similarities.
Poland shoots down Russian murder drones in its airspace.
https://www.joe.ie/news/poland-shoots-down-russian-drones-that-repeatedly-violated-its-airspace-853692
About f**king time, now start shooting them down in Ukrainian airspace and save civilian lives.
Or would that be too much for the western 'peace' lovers?
What sicker is that Russia targeting civilian sites.
https://www.ft.com/content/f6de4e80-5200-4ad9-86df-73fcdab01e03
Ukrainian children abducted by Russia have been held at more than 200 facilities across the country and in occupied territories, where they are routinely subject to indoctrination and forced military training, according to research released on Tuesday. A report by the Yale School of Public Health's Humanitarian Research Lab identified 210 sites, including summer camps and health resorts, cadet schools, medical facilities and a military base where Ukrainian children have been held since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022. "Russia is operating a potentially unprecedented system of large-scale re-education, military training, and dormitory facilities capable of holding tens of thousands of children from Ukraine for long periods of time," the report said.
Ukrainian authorities estimate nearly 20,000 children have been taken to Russia during the war, with only a fraction being returned. A number of Ukrainian children have been found on Russian adoption websites, although the total number remains unknown. In 2023, the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin and one of his top officials over the forced transfer of Ukrainian children. The network of sites identified by the Humanitarian Research Lab report is far larger than its researchers thought.
The Humanitarian Research Lab is a leading authority on Russia's mass transfer of Ukrainian children during the war. During Joe Biden's administration it shared its data with the International Criminal Court. It has since stopped sharing data with the ICC out of fear of running afoul of the sanctions imposed on the court by Donald Trump's administration.
Darth Putin
@darthputinkgb.bsky.social
Weeks-187 (https://bsky.app/profile/darthputinkgb.bsky.social/post/3lzlvcz57xc2l)
Victories-0
Casualties - 1,100,000
Economy - 🚽
War crimes - ♾
Tiger - paper📜🐅
Trump - unfriended
Medvedev - 🥴😤
Refineries - 💥🔥
Petrol - Short
Queues - Long
Flamingos - Dancing🦩
Donkeys - -2🫏
Racoons - +1🦝
I remain a master strategist
Re the donkeys
Ukraine soldier captured the first Russian "military transport" donkey. VIDEO (https://videos.cnscdn.com/9/5/7/2/95722b9cb6b164b4ca92bf5693557edf/original.mp4)
A video of a Ukrainian soldier leading a donkey along a road has been published online.
According to Censor.NET, the author of the publication assures that the donkey is a trophy and was previously used by the occupiers to transport goods.
"The equipment of the 'second army of the world': there is the first trophy donkey!" the commentary reads. Source: https://censor.net/en/v3575623
A change of tack from Trump. Not his usual snuggling up to Putin, but he may just be hopping a ball.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G1jYthyXkAAaqYH?format=jpg)
Entire command structure of US military to meet soon.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-generals-quantico-meeting/
Different source says;
A Senior Pentagon media correspondent told me: 'I've never seen anything like this in my past 30 years of reporting on the U.S. military. We might be going to war.'
Quote from: DaleCooper on September 25, 2025, 05:31:08 PMEntire command structure of US military to meet soon.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-generals-quantico-meeting/
Different source says;
A Senior Pentagon media correspondent told me: 'I've never seen anything like this in my past 30 years of reporting on the U.S. military. We might be going to war.'
With who though?
Quote from: johnnycool on September 26, 2025, 08:06:52 AMQuote from: DaleCooper on September 25, 2025, 05:31:08 PMEntire command structure of US military to meet soon.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-generals-quantico-meeting/
Different source says;
A Senior Pentagon media correspondent told me: 'I've never seen anything like this in my past 30 years of reporting on the U.S. military. We might be going to war.'
With who though?
Iran maybe?
Trump is not a war time leader.
He only picks battles he knows he will definitely win.
Russians are simply murdering people. No military targets, just destroyed homes and shattered lives.
https://x.com/victoriaslog/status/1972166697508655225
https://x.com/victoriaslog/status/1972154159995686950
Setback for the Kremlin and disappointment for western tankies as Moldovan elections results are in:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/29/moldova-election-result-boosts-move-towards-eu-away-from-moscow
Expect them to be invaded next
https://www.ft.com/content/bb8608fc-f16b-4b48-a4df-6b4a9e1e108b
The EU has offered to use part of a proposed €140bn loan backed by Russia's frozen assets to buy US weapons for Ukraine, provided Washington keeps supporting Kyiv in defending itself against Russia
Quote from: seafoid on October 19, 2025, 10:30:16 AMhttps://www.ft.com/content/bb8608fc-f16b-4b48-a4df-6b4a9e1e108b
The EU has offered to use part of a proposed €140bn loan backed by Russia's frozen assets to buy US weapons for Ukraine, provided Washington keeps supporting Kyiv in defending itself against Russia
That explains why Catherine Connolly hates the EU....
Quote from: Hand of God on October 20, 2025, 09:58:49 AMI always find it odd that the ones who are so vocal on Ukraine seem to be complete and utterly silent on Western imperialism.
As far as I can see Connolly has been vocal in her disapproval of Putin but she has taken a nuanced stance that Western imperialism and NATO expansion has unquestionably played a role in Russia's invasion. This is a view shared by the likes of Noam Chomsky and John Mearsheimer who are two extremely well respected historians and political commentators who were warning of the inveitability of this for decades if the West kept interfering in Ukranian politics and kept expanding NATO's borders.
It's full on Western propaganda, the same propaganda that seems to have overtaken every government in the Western world in relation to Israel. Keir Starmer wants a violent group of Islamophobic fascist hooligans to be given protection to march all over Birmingham this week. Micheal Martin went out to Israel to don the terrorist uniform of the IDF and take part in propaganda photoshoots and shake the hand of Netanyahu at a time the Israeli regime were bombing hospitals. He invited the Israeli ambassador, a truly disgusting bigoted racist and defender of genocide as a special to his parties Ard Fheis months laters as the genocide continued unabated. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael elected reps continue to be part of a Friends of Israel lobby and the MSM does not have an issue with any of the above but they will try and spread a smear campaign against Catherine Connolly because she opposes the Western Genocide machine.
If you look at the reality of it, the world is going far and far more right wing. Keir Starmer has brought the Labour Party increasingly right wing in the UK, Martin has pretty much turned FF into a more right wing version of FG in the south.
The only difference between the far right and FFG right now is just on issues such as trans rights, same sex marriages and abortion. Issues that really are not important to 90% of the people. The far right were never bothered with housing, health, cost of living, crime or any of these matters - its only migration that matters to them and anyone who believes that FFG are allowing massive amounts of refugees in on a human level is completely deluded. The only reason the FFG government is allowing the level of immigration in is because it is lucrative to a large amount of multi millionaires and billionaires.
The far right only stands to rise up in countries where governments have failed society. We are fed wall to wall propaganda in the media every day of our day of our lives - Russia, China and Iran are the bogeyman and the hope is that will give the West the cover to commit the heinous acts of warfare and imperialism it does, routinely.
Our great western world now have the second in command of ISIS in charge of Syria who is engaging in ethnic cleansing and they have no moral quibble with that at all.
1. I would ask..who are the ones who are so vocal on Ukraine that are silent on Western Imperialism? Are you referring to this board or real life? If real life, what size is this cohort?
2. You believe, like Catherine Connolly, that NATO 'expansion' has 'unquestionably' played a role in Russia's invasion. NATO 'expansion' only occurred because sovereign countries with democratically elected governments applied to join, on behalf of their electorate, so that they could be part of an alliance to defend their country from further aggression from Russia. Let's not forget, many of these countries were not liberated after WW2, the occupier merely changed. In the case of Ukraine, the imperial Russian aggression has lasted for centuries. (Ring a bell, any Irish patriots?)
3. NATO could never be a threat to Russia because Russia is nuclear armed. I've asked it again and again on this board of others holding your viewpoint, how does NATO attack Russia? They can't and they will never be able to. The west are even afraid to arm Ukraine with certain weapons because of Russian nuclear sabre-rattling. When is the big invasion to conquer Russia coming, 'Hand of God'?
4. John Mearsheimer and others like him are little better than 19th Century imperialist who prattle about their 'spheres of interest'. What they really mean is Russia should reserve the right to have the power to bully and harass and invade their neighbours as they please. Interesting to see his viewpoint espoused by Irishmen masquerading as anti-imperialists.
5. Let's also put the tankie favourite to the sword once and for all as well. The 'what if Mexico' bullshit. If you want to draw an imaginary comparison then you have to do it right. So let's do it then, What if... The US had invaded Mexico hundreds of years ago. And all the other smaller countries in central America. Then threw an Iron Curtain around them. Forced a totalitarian and utterly shit system of government on them, deported millions of their citizens to frozen wastes in Alaska and worked them to death in camps. Starved millions of them to death in the 1930s. (Not that long ago). What if those countries finally gained independence in the 1990s and wanted to join a Chinese based defensive alliance to ensure it would never happen again. Guatemala et al managed to get in but the big bad US was getting more and more pissed off as it saw its ability to bully their neighbours disappear forever. Mexico wanted in too but the US launched a brutal invasion causing hundred of thousands of deaths.
What if...I'll tell you... Every single tankie hypocrite in Ireland and on the planet would be apoplectic and foaming at the mouth in their condemnation, and you wouldn't hear much about Tibet from them either for a bit of 'nuance'. The Catherine would have lots to say about it I would imagine.
I have no interest in defending Russia and Putin, they are accountable for their invasion and war crimes. I just think anyone who denies the role of the West and NATO expansion is not being honest.
I only wish to expose you for the right wing, genocidal propagandist you are. Your boys are aiding, financing and enabling a genocide in Palestine right now on a mass scale not comparable with Ukraine. Your boys support the bombing of hospitals, targeting of medical staff, teachers, journalists, aid workers. Your boys support imprisoning people in an open air prison, your boys support the starvation of a mass population, you support the degradation of a civilian population on ethnic ground. Your boys support the mutilation of kids and babies.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 20, 2025, 05:01:50 PMI have no interest in defending Russia and Putin, they are accountable for their invasion and war crimes. I just think anyone who denies the role of the West and NATO expansion is not being honest.
I only wish to expose you for the right wing, genocidal propagandist you are. Your boys are aiding, financing and enabling a genocide in Palestine right now on a mass scale not comparable with Ukraine. Your boys support the bombing of hospitals, targeting of medical staff, teachers, journalists, aid workers. Your boys support imprisoning people in an open air prison, your boys support the starvation of a mass population, you support the degradation of a civilian population on ethnic ground. Your boys support the mutilation of kids and babies.
I've set out quite clearly how 'NATO expansion' as a threat to Russia and an excuse for their invasion is complete bullshit. You haven't attempted to refute a single point I've made because you are unable to.
1. How does NATO invade nuclear-armed Russia?
2. How are e.g. the Estonians warmongers for wanting to join an alliance to protect themselves against Russia?
3. How is the destruction in Ukraine not comparable to Gaza? You've not been paying attention. You mentioned 50x. How did you arrive at that figure?
4. Who are my boys? And how are they my boys?
5. If what I'm saying is 'genocidal propaganda' then feel free to refute it. It should be easy for you.
I'm going to guess you can't answer any of the above and will just repeat your assertions without anything to back it up. Heard it all before. The same drivel, over and over and over and over.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on October 20, 2025, 05:13:00 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 20, 2025, 05:01:50 PMI have no interest in defending Russia and Putin, they are accountable for their invasion and war crimes. I just think anyone who denies the role of the West and NATO expansion is not being honest.
I only wish to expose you for the right wing, genocidal propagandist you are. Your boys are aiding, financing and enabling a genocide in Palestine right now on a mass scale not comparable with Ukraine. Your boys support the bombing of hospitals, targeting of medical staff, teachers, journalists, aid workers. Your boys support imprisoning people in an open air prison, your boys support the starvation of a mass population, you support the degradation of a civilian population on ethnic ground. Your boys support the mutilation of kids and babies.
I've set out quite clearly how 'NATO expansion' as a threat to Russia and an excuse for their invasion is complete bullshit. You haven't attempted to refute a single point I've made because you are unable to.
1. How does NATO invade nuclear-armed Russia?
2. How are e.g. the Estonians warmongers for wanting to join an alliance to protect themselves against Russia?
3. How is the destruction in Ukraine not comparable to Gaza? You've not been paying attention. You mentioned 50x. How did you arrive at that figure?
4. Who are my boys? And how are they my boys?
5. If what I'm saying is 'genocidal propaganda' then feel free to refute it. It should be easy for you.
I'm going to guess you can't answer any of the above and will just repeat your assertions without anything to back it up. Heard it all before. The same drivel, over and over and over and over.
You won't even address the genocide your boys are engaged in right now. That's how much an entho supremacist you are. Why is the West allowed to commit genocide without sanction. The difference between me and you is I believe people belong in the Hague for war crimes.
That's why I think Putin should be there, that's why I think Starmer, Trump, Obama, Bush, Blair, Schulz, Macron and Von Der Leyen should all be there with him. You think Westeners are above the law and have the right to engage in genocide.
You won't address your hyporcrisies as you are merely a propagandist.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 20, 2025, 05:21:54 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on October 20, 2025, 05:13:00 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 20, 2025, 05:01:50 PMI have no interest in defending Russia and Putin, they are accountable for their invasion and war crimes. I just think anyone who denies the role of the West and NATO expansion is not being honest.
I only wish to expose you for the right wing, genocidal propagandist you are. Your boys are aiding, financing and enabling a genocide in Palestine right now on a mass scale not comparable with Ukraine. Your boys support the bombing of hospitals, targeting of medical staff, teachers, journalists, aid workers. Your boys support imprisoning people in an open air prison, your boys support the starvation of a mass population, you support the degradation of a civilian population on ethnic ground. Your boys support the mutilation of kids and babies.
I've set out quite clearly how 'NATO expansion' as a threat to Russia and an excuse for their invasion is complete bullshit. You haven't attempted to refute a single point I've made because you are unable to.
1. How does NATO invade nuclear-armed Russia?
2. How are e.g. the Estonians warmongers for wanting to join an alliance to protect themselves against Russia?
3. How is the destruction in Ukraine not comparable to Gaza? You've not been paying attention. You mentioned 50x. How did you arrive at that figure?
4. Who are my boys? And how are they my boys?
5. If what I'm saying is 'genocidal propaganda' then feel free to refute it. It should be easy for you.
I'm going to guess you can't answer any of the above and will just repeat your assertions without anything to back it up. Heard it all before. The same drivel, over and over and over and over.
You won't even address the genocide your boys are engaged in right now. That's how much an entho supremacist you are. Why is the West allowed to commit genocide without sanction. The difference between me and you is I believe people belong in the Hague for war crimes.
That's why I think Putin should be there, that's why I think Starmer, Trump, Obama, Bush, Blair, Schulz, Macron and Von Der Leyen should all be there with him. You think Westeners are above the law and have the right to engage in genocide.
You won't address your hyporcrisies as you are merely a propagandist.
I have no problems condemning wars and crimes committed by the west. Unlike you I won't spread their lies and excuses for their wars and call it 'nuance'.
Care to make an attempt at rebuttal of a single point I made about Russia and NATO?
If not, you're little other than noise. What is it they say about empty vessels?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on October 20, 2025, 08:10:33 PMI have no problems condemning wars and crimes committed by the west. Unlike you I won't spread their lies and excuses for their wars and call it 'nuance'.
Care to make an attempt at rebuttal of a single point I made about Russia and NATO?
If not, you're little other than noise. What is it they say about empty vessels?
Completely disingenuous and dishonest.
You are a propagandist, you are consumed by Ukraine but ambivalent on Palestine which is incredible. There is a huge correlation between those who support Ukraine and those who support Israel. Millions gather across European cities every week to protest against what is happening in Palestine, nobody really cares about Ukraine in that regard - why is that do you think? Why are there no mass marches in Dublin, Belfast, London, Paris Milan or Berlin for Ukraine like there are for Palestine for the civilian populations? Is everyone a tankie? Do people recognise that their Western leaders were complicit in sewing the seeds for the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Do people realise that their Western leaders are complicit in a genocide in Gaza? I think the answer to both is overwhelmingly yes which is why Palestine has so much more public support than the Ukraine. Palestine is cut and dry, Ukraine is more complex.
You support war criminals like Trump, like Blair, like Bush, like Biden, like Obama, like Hillary Clinton, like Schulz, like Von Der Leyen, like Macron, like Meloni, like Johnson, like Starmer, like Netanyahu. So just because you are against Putin who is also a war criminal doesn't give you credibility. It merely makes you a disingenuous hypocrite.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 20, 2025, 09:34:13 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on October 20, 2025, 08:10:33 PMI have no problems condemning wars and crimes committed by the west. Unlike you I won't spread their lies and excuses for their wars and call it 'nuance'.
Care to make an attempt at rebuttal of a single point I made about Russia and NATO?
If not, you're little other than noise. What is it they say about empty vessels?
Completely disingenuous and dishonest.
You are a propagandist, you are consumed by Ukraine but ambivalent on Palestine which is incredible. There is a huge correlation between those who support Ukraine and those who support Israel. Millions gather across European cities every week to protest against what is happening in Palestine, nobody really cares about Ukraine in that regard - why is that do you think? Why are there no mass marches in Dublin, Belfast, London, Paris Milan or Berlin for Ukraine like there are for Palestine for the civilian populations? Is everyone a tankie? Do people recognise that their Western leaders were complicit in sewing the seeds for the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Do people realise that their Western leaders are complicit in a genocide in Gaza? I think the answer to both is overwhelmingly yes which is why Palestine has so much more public support than the Ukraine. Palestine is cut and dry, Ukraine is more complex.
You support war criminals like Trump, like Blair, like Bush, like Biden, like Obama, like Hillary Clinton, like Schulz, like Von Der Leyen, like Macron, like Meloni, like Johnson, like Starmer, like Netanyahu. So just because you are against Putin who is also a war criminal doesn't give you credibility. It merely makes you a disingenuous hypocrite.
More waffle and noise. You can't support your assertions about NATO and Russia, so you just repeat them ad nauseam. Again and again, reminds me of someone who went a little bit mad on here a few months back and then disappeared completely. Remember him? The Mearsheimer Man, an absolute clown.
Ukraine is only complex to tankies like yourself because their brains are warped and easily manipulated by Russian propaganda. In their mind, Estonia is the warmonger, Latvia is the warmonger. The Russian Empire, their oppressor, is the victim. Sick and warped.
p.s. You won't find me ambivalent on Palestine, I'm on record on this forum calling it a genocide and calling Netanyahu a war criminal.
I'd also like to see your data on the correlation on Ukraine supporters also being supporters of Israel. Let's have it. Another assertion you can't back up?
Anyway, keep at it, you'll go back into full meltdown soon enough.
Yet you don't call Blair, Trump, Biden, Schulz, Meloni, Macron, Starmer, Obama, Von Der Leyen, Bush war criminals when they have the blood of millions of innocents dripping on their hand.
You have zero credibility. You are a supporter of genocide. Shame on you.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 20, 2025, 11:40:45 PMYet you don't call Blair, Trump, Biden, Schulz, Meloni, Macron, Starmer, Obama, Von Der Leyen, Bush war criminals when they have the blood of millions of innocents dripping on their hand.
You have zero credibility. You are a supporter of genocide. Shame on you.
He's back and he's angry folks and he still can't form a basic argument. And all these accusations flying from the man who couldn't bring himself to say a bad word about Bashar Al-Assad.
Anyone that aided the Israeli genocide has blood on their hands and should answer for it.
See how easy that was? I wouldn't lose a moments sleep if every single one of the above were locked up.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on October 21, 2025, 07:45:20 AMQuote from: Hand of God on October 20, 2025, 11:40:45 PMYet you don't call Blair, Trump, Biden, Schulz, Meloni, Macron, Starmer, Obama, Von Der Leyen, Bush war criminals when they have the blood of millions of innocents dripping on their hand.
You have zero credibility. You are a supporter of genocide. Shame on you.
He's back and he's angry folks and he still can't form a basic argument. And all these accusations flying from the man who couldn't bring himself to say a bad word about Bashar Al-Assad.
Anyone that aided the Israeli genocide has blood on their hands and should answer for it.
See how easy that was? I wouldn't lose a moments sleep if every single one of the above were locked up.
I'm not angry. You're the guy who can't call Western leaders war criminals.
It's a simple question. Should Biden, Trump, Schulz, Starmer and Von Der Leyen be in the Hague? Yes or no.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 08:34:09 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on October 21, 2025, 07:45:20 AMQuote from: Hand of God on October 20, 2025, 11:40:45 PMYet you don't call Blair, Trump, Biden, Schulz, Meloni, Macron, Starmer, Obama, Von Der Leyen, Bush war criminals when they have the blood of millions of innocents dripping on their hand.
You have zero credibility. You are a supporter of genocide. Shame on you.
He's back and he's angry folks and he still can't form a basic argument. And all these accusations flying from the man who couldn't bring himself to say a bad word about Bashar Al-Assad.
Anyone that aided the Israeli genocide has blood on their hands and should answer for it.
See how easy that was? I wouldn't lose a moments sleep if every single one of the above were locked up.
I'm not angry. You're the guy who can't call Western leaders war criminals.
It's a simple question. Should Biden, Trump, Schulz, Starmer and Von Der Leyen be in the Hague? Yes or no.
Oh you're very angry.
Where have you been these past months? Did you watch one Glenn Greenwald video too many? 🤮
And yes, the above should all stand trial for aiding the Israeli genocide in Gaza. I'll leave it up to the supporters of Israel to make excuses for them and provide some 'nuance' to what they would likely regard as a very 'complex' situation.
You see how easy it is when you're against all forms of aggression and not an anti-western tankie faux anti-imperialist?
I'm not one bit angry. I'm just exposing what a hypocrite you are.
Odd that you won't dare name those Western leaders as war criminals when they are undeniably complicit in genocide. You are a genocide supporter and you contradict yourself with every post.
Christ.. I could argue with myself at times lol, but this is going well ;D
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 10:20:04 AMI'm not one bit angry. I'm just exposing what a hypocrite you are.
Odd that you won't dare name those Western leaders as war criminals when they are undeniably complicit in genocide. You are a genocide supporter and you contradict yourself with every post.
Biden, Trump, Schulz, Starmer and Von Der Leyen are war criminals for their part played in the ongoing Israeli genocide in Gaza.
Now you can have a go at answering any of the questions I posed to you.
You won't though, because you can't. All you can do is make the assertion again and not back it up with anything.
Your pro-Russian propaganda doesn't even stand up to basic logic.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on October 21, 2025, 10:25:31 AMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 10:20:04 AMI'm not one bit angry. I'm just exposing what a hypocrite you are.
Odd that you won't dare name those Western leaders as war criminals when they are undeniably complicit in genocide. You are a genocide supporter and you contradict yourself with every post.
Biden, Trump, Schulz, Starmer and Von Der Leyen are war criminals for their part played in the ongoing Israeli genocide in Gaza.
Now you can have a go at answering any of the questions I posed to you.
You won't though, because you can't. All you can do is make the assertion again and not back it up with anything.
Your pro-Russian propaganda doesn't even stand up to basic logic.
So you trust those people that you now admit are war criminals and say they are suddenly honest brokers in Ukraine and their support or NATO expanding its borders, that broke treaties they signed up?
Seems quite an incredible position to hold.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 10:30:04 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on October 21, 2025, 10:25:31 AMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 10:20:04 AMI'm not one bit angry. I'm just exposing what a hypocrite you are.
Odd that you won't dare name those Western leaders as war criminals when they are undeniably complicit in genocide. You are a genocide supporter and you contradict yourself with every post.
Biden, Trump, Schulz, Starmer and Von Der Leyen are war criminals for their part played in the ongoing Israeli genocide in Gaza.
Now you can have a go at answering any of the questions I posed to you.
You won't though, because you can't. All you can do is make the assertion again and not back it up with anything.
Your pro-Russian propaganda doesn't even stand up to basic logic.
So you trust those people that you now admit are war criminals and say they are suddenly honest brokers in Ukraine and their support or NATO expanding its borders, that broke treaties they signed up?
Seems quite an incredible position to hold.
Oh is that supposed to be some little trap you've lured me into?
No, I'm actually capable of seeing that the situation with Israel/Gaza is different than that with Russia/Ukraine.
By NATO expansion do you mean democratically elected governments of sovereign nations applying to join NATO in the interests of their own safety? What a strange thing it is to be a tankie and see little Estonia as a warmonger and provoking poor little Russia.
And please do enlighten me about the treaties that were broken. I'd love to hear all about it.
Edit: Oh by the way here are a list of treaties and agreements with Ukraine that Russia has broken:
1994 Budapest Memorandum
1997 Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership
2014 and 2015 Minsk Agreements
Ilovaysk Agreements (2014)
2022 Black Sea Grain Initiative
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on October 21, 2025, 10:39:23 AMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 10:30:04 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on October 21, 2025, 10:25:31 AMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 10:20:04 AMI'm not one bit angry. I'm just exposing what a hypocrite you are.
Odd that you won't dare name those Western leaders as war criminals when they are undeniably complicit in genocide. You are a genocide supporter and you contradict yourself with every post.
Biden, Trump, Schulz, Starmer and Von Der Leyen are war criminals for their part played in the ongoing Israeli genocide in Gaza.
Now you can have a go at answering any of the questions I posed to you.
You won't though, because you can't. All you can do is make the assertion again and not back it up with anything.
Your pro-Russian propaganda doesn't even stand up to basic logic.
So you trust those people that you now admit are war criminals and say they are suddenly honest brokers in Ukraine and their support or NATO expanding its borders, that broke treaties they signed up?
Seems quite an incredible position to hold.
Oh is that supposed to be some little trap you've lured me into?
No, I'm actually capable of seeing that the situation with Israel/Gaza is different than that with Russia/Ukraine.
By NATO expansion do you mean democratically elected governments of sovereign nations applying to join NATO in the interests of their own safety? What a strange thing it is to be a tankie and see little Estonia as a warmonger and provoking poor little Russia.
And please do enlighten me about the treaties that were broken. I'd love to hear all about it.
Ukraine had a democratically elected government at one point too, the US orhcestrated a coup and it's been war since. The notion that the West respects democracy is some riddy. How many coups have the US alone supported at this point?
The fact you blindly believe people you openly believe to be war criminals is wild.
Out of interest what is your suggestion Ukraine do when getting invaded?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 10:48:12 AMOut of interest what is your suggestion Ukraine do when getting invaded?
The war is there now. Ukraine are the victims here. I'm not disputing that and Russia are the aggressors and have been committing war crimes.
The bit yer man doesn't want people to focus on is the role of the West and in particular the US in bringing about this war.
The US played a massive role in changing a democratically elected government in UKraine, they invested billions and other resources into removing a Russia allied government and replaced it with a pro-West government. That is not up for debate, its well established at this point. That was the start of the trouble. It's now a proxy war and Ukraine is stuck in the middle, the US made Ukraine poke the bear and the bear responded.
And we are somehow led to believe that the same world leaders who have defended, armed, aided and supported a genocide in Palestine, something on a far bigger and more grotesque scale than what is happening in Ukraine, are somehow altruistic is wanting democracy in Ukraine.
Can we accept that The West are not honest brokers in the Ukraine and the Russians are the aggressors, occupiers and have committed war crimes? What's wrong with saying that. Plenty of respected political commentators and historians have stated that very comprehensively - its a fair and balanced view to have and when the war hawks hear that balanced statement they try and portray you of being pro-Russia. It's what they have done with Catherine Connolly throughout the election campaign.
If you want the definition of stupid, it would be believing that the West intefere in foreign countries for democracy. The Free World we live in right now that locks people up for protesting genocide.....
We've already done this dance, you and I, but anyway, I'll be back later to debunk your pro-Russian garbage.
Again.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on October 21, 2025, 11:09:26 AMWe've already done this dance, you and I, but anyway, I'll be back later to debunk your pro-Russian garbage.
Again.
I'm not pro Russian, this is the propaganda and smear neo-liberal warhawks like you engage in against people who call out the West's ehthno supremacy and meddling in other countries with democratically elected governments.
You believe the West who are sponsoring genocide in the Middle East and have proudly supported an apartheid state trying to ethnically cleanse a population, who have given cover to the Israelis to commit war crimes at an unprecedented state, are honest brokers in Ukraine and only care about democracy and freedom?
That's where you are exposing yourself as engaging in bad faith. Like Russia, the West have very sinister intentions in the Ukraine and their meddling has been a big protagonist in the last 10 years of war in Ukraine. It's a proxy war between two imprealist superpowers (Russia on one side and the West on the other side).
It's not a debatable fact that the Americans were heavily involved in orchestrating the removal of a democracitically elected government that was aligned with Russia and replacing it with one that was heavily aligned with the West. They did not do this in the name of freedom and democracy.
You can the list of tyrannical dictators and despot regimes that the US align themselves with. They replaced Assad with ISIS. They routinely try and influence uprisings against leaders who do not do as they West want, this leads to mass death, destruction, ruinations of economies, mass immigration but once the American has some lunatic in charge who will take direction from them they don't mind. That political outlook you support horrifies me.
I am anti-war, you are a warmonger.
I'm glad some of the great political debates of our time take place on an ancient gaelic games board, incredible
Do you boys use chat gpt or where do you get the time to type that up?
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 10:59:34 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 10:48:12 AMOut of interest what is your suggestion Ukraine do when getting invaded?
The US played a massive role in changing a democratically elected government in UKraine, they invested billions and other resources into removing a Russia allied government and replaced it with a pro-West government. That is not up for debate, its well established at this point. That was the start of the trouble. It's now a proxy war and Ukraine is stuck in the middle, the US made Ukraine poke the bear and the bear responded.
You're complaining about western propaganda but come out with this? Come on. This could have come from the Kremlin itself FFS. Yanukovych Was removed for back tracking on an agreement with the EU which causing mass protests and then fled to Russia.
The bear needed no poking, and you know that. And living next door to a bear is exactly the reason Ukraine looked to NATO.
And I say that as no supporter of the US who I would agree are one of the biggest warmongers in the world. Right alongside Russia.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 11:33:40 AMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 10:59:34 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 10:48:12 AMOut of interest what is your suggestion Ukraine do when getting invaded?
The US played a massive role in changing a democratically elected government in UKraine, they invested billions and other resources into removing a Russia allied government and replaced it with a pro-West government. That is not up for debate, its well established at this point. That was the start of the trouble. It's now a proxy war and Ukraine is stuck in the middle, the US made Ukraine poke the bear and the bear responded.
You're complaining about western propaganda but come out with this? Come on. This could have come from the Kremlin itself FFS. Yanukovych Was removed for back tracking on an agreement with the EU which causing mass protests and then fled to Russia.
The bear needed no poking, and you know that. And living next door to a bear is exactly the reason Ukraine looked to NATO.
And I say that as no supporter of the US who I would agree are one of the biggest warmongers in the world. Right alongside Russia.
This is incredibly naive. You genuinely don't believe the US played any role in the regime change? It just fell into place all by itself? You are aware of a leaked conversation of Nuland and the American ambassadaor giddily talking about who they want in power over there? You are aware of the extensive and storied history of successive US regimes and their involvement in coups, their use of militias, paramilitaries, political parties and opposition leaders across various countries to create unrest and topple democratically elected governments. I suppose you believe the Americans were not trying to overthrow Maduro in recent years too?
You have wacthed for 2 years the Western media whitewash a genocide in Palestine and you still believe they are not propagandists. I'm not biased or blind like you seem to be. I know the Russians do propaganda, I don't parrot what they say. You parrot what the western media say without any question. That's wild, that is conspiracy level stuff.
Paging Franko, paging Franko.
Still nothing to see here, you reckon?
No, I believe both sides were at it. I believe Yanukovych was turned by Russia and that he wasn't serving Ukraine's interests anymore. I also believe the US saw that and helped to oust him.
It's possible to believe both were at it. But you have consistently downplayed Russian involvement with your use of language, "poking the bear", West's ehthno supremacy, NATO expansion. Russian buzzwords just as much as the US propaganda.
You still haven't answered what do Ukraine do when Russia invaded?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 11:51:48 AMNo, I believe both sides were at it. I believe Yanukovych was turned by Russia and that he wasn't serving Ukraine's interests anyone. I also believe the US saw that and helped to oust him.
It's possible to believe both were at it. But you have consistently downplayed Russian involvement with your use of language, "poking the bear", West's ehthno supremacy, NATO expansion. Russian buzzwords just as much as the US propaganda.
You still haven't answered what do Ukraine do when Russia invaded?
I fully agree with all that.
I don't have any quibble with that position whatsoever. I don't get why we are disagreeing here. I have said multiple times Ukraine has every right to defend itself but this is quite clearly a proxy war between two imperial superpowers that Ukraine has been caught in the middle of.
The issue I have been consistently pointed out is that the role of the West in this conflict is clear. It's not just a case of the Russians deciding they were going to wake up one day and invade Ukraine. The reasons for it are they do feel threatened by NATO expansion and they do feel that the West was instrumental in removing an ally they had in power in Ukraine.
The West like to preach about freedom and democracy, they like to pretend they interfere in countries to remove dictators and give the country some liberal values.
They invaded Iraq under a false pretence to remove a tyrannical dictator they were instrumental in empowering in the first place, how is Iraq doing now?
They got rid of Assad in Syria and replaced him with the ISIS second in command. How is that going for Syrians?
They got rid of a Russia aligned government in Ukraine and replaced it with a western-aligned government. How has that worked out?
They got rid of Gaddafi in Libya, its been ruled by militias since?
They got rid of the Taliban in Afghanistan - ironic they armed and financed Bin Laden in order to fight Russia - and returned to the Taliban. How is that going?
The foreign policy of the US is imperialism, its control, they invade, finance, meddle and drop bombs under false pretences. Ukraine is just another front for them.
Saying that the West has been a guilty party in the Ukraine is a fact. It doesn't absolve Russia of their invasion, it doesn't mean Putin is not a war criminal, it doesn't mean Ukraine doesn't have the right to defend itself. They are all valid positions but we have to face up to West's involvement in this conflict.
The West are the most evil regime in this world - mass murder, starvation, destruction of infrastructure, lowering of living standards, poverty, population displacement - that's the end result of wherever they meddle in. Has there ever been a country with a happy ending where they have stuck their nose in?
"West's ehthno supremacy"
Stopped reading there. One of the dumbest things I've ever read, nicely buttressed by the spelling mistake
The difference is, I don't believe Russia were threatened by NATO. I believe they were concerned that NATO's involvement would reduce their ability to bully and invade other independent countries. There is a significant difference.
We can accept that Russia invaded a country and Israel are committing genocide, we can also accept that there are other wars. No doubt started by whoever but people are losing their lives daily as humans are pretty disgusting at times
Sudan: A civil war is ongoing between the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces (RSF), with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries like Chad and South Sudan.
Somalia: The country is experiencing a civil war and is also affected by conflict spills from Ethiopia.
Democratic Republic of the Congo: The country is the site of a complex conflict with multiple armed groups.
Mali: The country is experiencing high levels of insecurity due to attacks by armed groups, a situation complicated by a French withdrawal and internal political instability.
Burkina Faso: The country is a hotspot of insecurity, with escalating violence from armed groups, according to recent reports from the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED).
Nigeria: The country faces a worsening security situation, with conflicts between farmers and herders in central areas, banditry in the northwest, and uprisings by separatists in the southeast.
Ethiopia: The country is dealing with the aftermath of a civil war that began in November 2020, with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries.
Cameroon: The country is dealing with a long-term crisis in its northern and southwestern regions, with violence that has gone on for years.
Other countries: Other countries with ongoing conflicts include the Central African Republic, Mozambique, and Burundi.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 12:20:40 PMThe difference is, I don't believe Russia were threatened by NATO. I believe they were concerned that NATO's involvement would reduce their ability to bully and invade other independent countries. There is a significant difference.
You don't think your enemies expanding onto your borders is something that makes you feel threatened?
You might have a point if the West had an unblemished record of peacekeeping, democracy and freedom. Conversely the West are the world's biggest terrorists and Israel has been a real eye opener in the level of unhinged propaganda Western governments, states and media outlets engage it. They have whitewashed a genocide before our very eyes.
Ukraine is the victim in all of this. The West certainly bare a level of culpability and Russia certainly bare the brunt of the blame.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 12:26:22 PMWe can accept that Russia invaded a country and Israel are committing genocide, we can also accept that there are other wars. No doubt started by whoever but people are losing their lives daily as humans are pretty disgusting at times
Sudan: A civil war is ongoing between the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces (RSF), with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries like Chad and South Sudan.
Somalia: The country is experiencing a civil war and is also affected by conflict spills from Ethiopia.
Democratic Republic of the Congo: The country is the site of a complex conflict with multiple armed groups.
Mali: The country is experiencing high levels of insecurity due to attacks by armed groups, a situation complicated by a French withdrawal and internal political instability.
Burkina Faso: The country is a hotspot of insecurity, with escalating violence from armed groups, according to recent reports from the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED).
Nigeria: The country faces a worsening security situation, with conflicts between farmers and herders in central areas, banditry in the northwest, and uprisings by separatists in the southeast.
Ethiopia: The country is dealing with the aftermath of a civil war that began in November 2020, with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries.
Cameroon: The country is dealing with a long-term crisis in its northern and southwestern regions, with violence that has gone on for years.
Other countries: Other countries with ongoing conflicts include the Central African Republic, Mozambique, and Burundi.
The majority of those countries there are in Africa if not all? Is there any significant reason in the history of these countries that you might see might have led to a culture of poverty, corruption and violence?
A lot of European countries might have colonised these countries perhaps, they might have violently slaughtered and stripped the natives of their land and dignity and then pulled out of the country and put some despot crony in power. They divided the natives and then left a vacuum for power.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 01:30:44 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 12:26:22 PMWe can accept that Russia invaded a country and Israel are committing genocide, we can also accept that there are other wars. No doubt started by whoever but people are losing their lives daily as humans are pretty disgusting at times
Sudan: A civil war is ongoing between the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces (RSF), with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries like Chad and South Sudan.
Somalia: The country is experiencing a civil war and is also affected by conflict spills from Ethiopia.
Democratic Republic of the Congo: The country is the site of a complex conflict with multiple armed groups.
Mali: The country is experiencing high levels of insecurity due to attacks by armed groups, a situation complicated by a French withdrawal and internal political instability.
Burkina Faso: The country is a hotspot of insecurity, with escalating violence from armed groups, according to recent reports from the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED).
Nigeria: The country faces a worsening security situation, with conflicts between farmers and herders in central areas, banditry in the northwest, and uprisings by separatists in the southeast.
Ethiopia: The country is dealing with the aftermath of a civil war that began in November 2020, with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries.
Cameroon: The country is dealing with a long-term crisis in its northern and southwestern regions, with violence that has gone on for years.
Other countries: Other countries with ongoing conflicts include the Central African Republic, Mozambique, and Burundi.
The majority of those countries there are in Africa if not all? Is there any significant reason in the history of these countries that you might see might have led to a culture of poverty, corruption and violence?
A lot of European countries might have colonised these countries perhaps, they might have violently slaughtered and stripped the natives of their land and dignity and then pulled out of the country and put some despot crony in power. They divided the natives and then left a vacuum for power.
Again, you are looking to blame.. Why? Tell me how that will solve the problem
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 01:30:44 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 12:26:22 PMWe can accept that Russia invaded a country and Israel are committing genocide, we can also accept that there are other wars. No doubt started by whoever but people are losing their lives daily as humans are pretty disgusting at times
Sudan: A civil war is ongoing between the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces (RSF), with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries like Chad and South Sudan.
Somalia: The country is experiencing a civil war and is also affected by conflict spills from Ethiopia.
Democratic Republic of the Congo: The country is the site of a complex conflict with multiple armed groups.
Mali: The country is experiencing high levels of insecurity due to attacks by armed groups, a situation complicated by a French withdrawal and internal political instability.
Burkina Faso: The country is a hotspot of insecurity, with escalating violence from armed groups, according to recent reports from the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED).
Nigeria: The country faces a worsening security situation, with conflicts between farmers and herders in central areas, banditry in the northwest, and uprisings by separatists in the southeast.
Ethiopia: The country is dealing with the aftermath of a civil war that began in November 2020, with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries.
Cameroon: The country is dealing with a long-term crisis in its northern and southwestern regions, with violence that has gone on for years.
Other countries: Other countries with ongoing conflicts include the Central African Republic, Mozambique, and Burundi.
The majority of those countries there are in Africa if not all? Is there any significant reason in the history of these countries that you might see might have led to a culture of poverty, corruption and violence?
A lot of European countries might have colonised these countries perhaps, they might have violently slaughtered and stripped the natives of their land and dignity and then pulled out of the country and put some despot crony in power. They divided the natives and then left a vacuum for power.
Maybe culture and genetics play some part? After all, European countries colonised other parts of the world too, and there's not endless wars.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 01:38:40 PMAgain, you are looking to blame.. Why? Tell me how that will solve the problem
And you're looking to whitewash history and avoid accountability.
It's very comples how these things can be solved but we all know who is responsible. Don't we?
The West has an abhorrent history when it comes to ethnic cleansing, colonising, oppression and slavery. Why do you not want to discuss the reasons for this. It's not that along ago when Europe was pillaging Africa so of course it is absolutely central in the state of these countries to date. Just like the British had everything to answer for Troubles. It's white Europeans who are the ones running an apartheid state in Israel - but hey, they're our allies right?
Quote from: Genocide Organ on October 21, 2025, 01:45:34 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 01:30:44 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 12:26:22 PMWe can accept that Russia invaded a country and Israel are committing genocide, we can also accept that there are other wars. No doubt started by whoever but people are losing their lives daily as humans are pretty disgusting at times
Sudan: A civil war is ongoing between the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces (RSF), with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries like Chad and South Sudan.
Somalia: The country is experiencing a civil war and is also affected by conflict spills from Ethiopia.
Democratic Republic of the Congo: The country is the site of a complex conflict with multiple armed groups.
Mali: The country is experiencing high levels of insecurity due to attacks by armed groups, a situation complicated by a French withdrawal and internal political instability.
Burkina Faso: The country is a hotspot of insecurity, with escalating violence from armed groups, according to recent reports from the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED).
Nigeria: The country faces a worsening security situation, with conflicts between farmers and herders in central areas, banditry in the northwest, and uprisings by separatists in the southeast.
Ethiopia: The country is dealing with the aftermath of a civil war that began in November 2020, with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries.
Cameroon: The country is dealing with a long-term crisis in its northern and southwestern regions, with violence that has gone on for years.
Other countries: Other countries with ongoing conflicts include the Central African Republic, Mozambique, and Burundi.
The majority of those countries there are in Africa if not all? Is there any significant reason in the history of these countries that you might see might have led to a culture of poverty, corruption and violence?
A lot of European countries might have colonised these countries perhaps, they might have violently slaughtered and stripped the natives of their land and dignity and then pulled out of the country and put some despot crony in power. They divided the natives and then left a vacuum for power.
Maybe culture and genetics play some part? After all, European countries colonised other parts of the world too, and there's not endless wars.
Such as, the place where they placed settlers who ethnically cleansed the native populations?
You're showing White Europeans for the violent savages they are.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 01:23:22 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 12:20:40 PMThe difference is, I don't believe Russia were threatened by NATO. I believe they were concerned that NATO's involvement would reduce their ability to bully and invade other independent countries. There is a significant difference.
You don't think your enemies expanding onto your borders is something that makes you feel threatened?
You might have a point if the West had an unblemished record of peacekeeping, democracy and freedom. Conversely the West are the world's biggest terrorists and Israel has been a real eye opener in the level of unhinged propaganda Western governments, states and media outlets engage it. They have whitewashed a genocide before our very eyes.
Ukraine is the victim in all of this. The West certainly bare a level of culpability and Russia certainly bare the brunt of the blame.
Then I'm sure you'll understand why Ukraine wanted to engage with NATO. Its enemy was already at its borders and with a history of aggression. Ukraine were looking for protection.
There's no way of spinning this without Russia taking the majority of the blame as you said. I'm happy to agree with you on US warmongering but for me, NATO is a very understandable desire for Ukraine. Indeed any protection from the bigger threat of Russia is a no brainer.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 01:53:36 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 01:23:22 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 12:20:40 PMThe difference is, I don't believe Russia were threatened by NATO. I believe they were concerned that NATO's involvement would reduce their ability to bully and invade other independent countries. There is a significant difference.
You don't think your enemies expanding onto your borders is something that makes you feel threatened?
You might have a point if the West had an unblemished record of peacekeeping, democracy and freedom. Conversely the West are the world's biggest terrorists and Israel has been a real eye opener in the level of unhinged propaganda Western governments, states and media outlets engage it. They have whitewashed a genocide before our very eyes.
Ukraine is the victim in all of this. The West certainly bare a level of culpability and Russia certainly bare the brunt of the blame.
Then I'm sure you'll understand why Ukraine wanted to engage with NATO. Its enemy was already at its borders and with a history of aggression. Ukraine were looking for protection.
There's no way of spinning this without Russia taking the majority of the blame as you said. I'm happy to agree with you on US warmongering but for me, NATO is a very understandable desire for Ukraine. Indeed any protection from the bigger threat of Russia is a no brainer.
It might be an understandable desire for Ukraine. I won't deny that but it just focus on that element you ignore how it got to there, how a democratically elected government was toppled by an uprising that had Western involvement written all over it.
I think any sensible balanced person can see that and that the US and Western powers knowingly directed Ukraine into a situation that they knew would very likely lead to war.
I don't seek to absolve Russia from its role here but there has to be an admission, the West knowingly put Ukraine and it's citizens in the firing line.
Is Ukraine in a better place than it was 12 years ago?
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 01:48:39 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on October 21, 2025, 01:45:34 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 01:30:44 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 12:26:22 PMWe can accept that Russia invaded a country and Israel are committing genocide, we can also accept that there are other wars. No doubt started by whoever but people are losing their lives daily as humans are pretty disgusting at times
Sudan: A civil war is ongoing between the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces (RSF), with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries like Chad and South Sudan.
Somalia: The country is experiencing a civil war and is also affected by conflict spills from Ethiopia.
Democratic Republic of the Congo: The country is the site of a complex conflict with multiple armed groups.
Mali: The country is experiencing high levels of insecurity due to attacks by armed groups, a situation complicated by a French withdrawal and internal political instability.
Burkina Faso: The country is a hotspot of insecurity, with escalating violence from armed groups, according to recent reports from the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED).
Nigeria: The country faces a worsening security situation, with conflicts between farmers and herders in central areas, banditry in the northwest, and uprisings by separatists in the southeast.
Ethiopia: The country is dealing with the aftermath of a civil war that began in November 2020, with conflict-related violence spilling into neighboring countries.
Cameroon: The country is dealing with a long-term crisis in its northern and southwestern regions, with violence that has gone on for years.
Other countries: Other countries with ongoing conflicts include the Central African Republic, Mozambique, and Burundi.
The majority of those countries there are in Africa if not all? Is there any significant reason in the history of these countries that you might see might have led to a culture of poverty, corruption and violence?
A lot of European countries might have colonised these countries perhaps, they might have violently slaughtered and stripped the natives of their land and dignity and then pulled out of the country and put some despot crony in power. They divided the natives and then left a vacuum for power.
Maybe culture and genetics play some part? After all, European countries colonised other parts of the world too, and there's not endless wars.
Such as, the place where they placed settlers who ethnically cleansed the native populations?
You're showing White Europeans for the violent savages they are.
Ha ha! They're not white Europeans!
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 02:01:49 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 01:53:36 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 01:23:22 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2025, 12:20:40 PMThe difference is, I don't believe Russia were threatened by NATO. I believe they were concerned that NATO's involvement would reduce their ability to bully and invade other independent countries. There is a significant difference.
You don't think your enemies expanding onto your borders is something that makes you feel threatened?
You might have a point if the West had an unblemished record of peacekeeping, democracy and freedom. Conversely the West are the world's biggest terrorists and Israel has been a real eye opener in the level of unhinged propaganda Western governments, states and media outlets engage it. They have whitewashed a genocide before our very eyes.
Ukraine is the victim in all of this. The West certainly bare a level of culpability and Russia certainly bare the brunt of the blame.
Then I'm sure you'll understand why Ukraine wanted to engage with NATO. Its enemy was already at its borders and with a history of aggression. Ukraine were looking for protection.
There's no way of spinning this without Russia taking the majority of the blame as you said. I'm happy to agree with you on US warmongering but for me, NATO is a very understandable desire for Ukraine. Indeed any protection from the bigger threat of Russia is a no brainer.
It might be an understandable desire for Ukraine. I won't deny that but it just focus on that element you ignore how it got to there, how a democratically elected government was toppled by an uprising that had Western involvement written all over it.
I think any sensible balanced person can see that and that the US and Western powers knowingly directed Ukraine into a situation that they knew would very likely lead to war.
I don't seek to absolve Russia from its role here but there has to be an admission, the West knowingly put Ukraine and it's citizens in the firing line.
Is Ukraine in a better place than it was 12 years ago?
We've discussed Yanukovych earlier. No point rehashing it and going in circles. Best to leave it there.
I asked which countries you referred to.
You didn't answer. US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand are effectively 4 Western countries founded on ehtnic cleansing.
You've already had your ass handed to you regarding the imaginary US coup earlier in the thread.
Anyway, until later, hope you've got those pics of John McCain's sandwiches ready.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 01:47:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 01:38:40 PMAgain, you are looking to blame.. Why? Tell me how that will solve the problem
And you're looking to whitewash history and avoid accountability.
It's very comples how these things can be solved but we all know who is responsible. Don't we?
The West has an abhorrent history when it comes to ethnic cleansing, colonising, oppression and slavery. Why do you not want to discuss the reasons for this. It's not that along ago when Europe was pillaging Africa so of course it is absolutely central in the state of these countries to date. Just like the British had everything to answer for Troubles. It's white Europeans who are the ones running an apartheid state in Israel - but hey, they're our allies right?
Again, you are doing the blame game, why?
I'd already stated in my post started by whoever, but people are dying flat out, villages burned and ethnic cleansing.. The world is fucked, some poster put on here a while back and its stayed with me, a good meteor attack would sort it out
So put down the history book, we all know that. Humans are a horrible species in times of conflict, even more so in the modern era
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 02:41:53 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 01:47:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 01:38:40 PMAgain, you are looking to blame.. Why? Tell me how that will solve the problem
And you're looking to whitewash history and avoid accountability.
It's very comples how these things can be solved but we all know who is responsible. Don't we?
The West has an abhorrent history when it comes to ethnic cleansing, colonising, oppression and slavery. Why do you not want to discuss the reasons for this. It's not that along ago when Europe was pillaging Africa so of course it is absolutely central in the state of these countries to date. Just like the British had everything to answer for Troubles. It's white Europeans who are the ones running an apartheid state in Israel - but hey, they're our allies right?
Again, you are doing the blame game, why?
I'd already stated in my post started by whoever, but people are dying flat out, villages burned and ethnic cleansing.. The world is fucked, some poster put on here a while back and its stayed with me, a good meteor attack would sort it out
So put down the history book, we all know that. Humans are a horrible species in times of conflict, even more so in the modern era
It's the tankie mindset. Everything has to be the fault of the west/US. Everything. Once you understand that, it all makes sense.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 02:41:53 PMAgain, you are doing the blame game, why?
I'd already stated in my post started by whoever, but people are dying flat out, villages burned and ethnic cleansing.. The world is fucked, some poster put on here a while back and its stayed with me, a good meteor attack would sort it out
So put down the history book, we all know that. Humans are a horrible species in times of conflict, even more so in the modern era
I think its utterly wild you are doing a whitewashing of history. I don't need to put down a history book. You need to pick up one. You need to educate yourself rather than live a life of blissful igorance.
Those responsible for horrific acts, for genocides, for ethnic cleansing, for colionalism should be held accountable - not have it glossed over.
Can you recommend ten books that should be read to understand?
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 03:41:45 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 02:41:53 PMAgain, you are doing the blame game, why?
I'd already stated in my post started by whoever, but people are dying flat out, villages burned and ethnic cleansing.. The world is fucked, some poster put on here a while back and its stayed with me, a good meteor attack would sort it out
So put down the history book, we all know that. Humans are a horrible species in times of conflict, even more so in the modern era
I think its utterly wild you are doing a whitewashing of history. I don't need to put down a history book. You need to pick up one. You need to educate yourself rather than live a life of blissful igorance.
Those responsible for horrific acts, for genocides, for ethnic cleansing, for colionalism should be held accountable - not have it glossed over.
Jesus lad.. what do you need here? we can go back hundreds, thousands of years of colonialism, who will we start with first? the Greeks? Romans, the Egyptians.. Not one clue what you need here.. Fix the problem now, and stop looking for heads on a stick.
Who da f**k is trying to gloss over it?
You're a melt ;D
Trump fucked Zelenskyy out of it for not giving the Donbass up
Europe is behind Zelenskyy. Apart from Hungary and Slovakia, the 2 tankie states.
https://www.ft.com/content/d26d9203-7ca6-4477-a251-7d4c81f195a1
European governments have rallied behind Volodymyr Zelenskyy and are rushing to secure a deal on the use of Russia's frozen assets after the Ukrainian leader was pressured by Donald Trump to accept Vladimir Putin's demands to end the war. "We see President Trump's efforts to bring peace to Ukraine, all these efforts are welcome but we don't see Russia wanting peace," warned Kaja Kallas, the EU's top diplomat, on Monday. "We are discussing what more we can do." Kallas spoke after the Financial Times reported on a tense White House meeting between Trump and Zelenskyy on Friday, in which Ukraine's leader sought to present counter-arguments to Putin's maximalist requests, which include territorial concessions.
Ukraine can't and won't give up the Donbas. It's their most heavily fortified area and giving it up would leave the rest of Ukraine open to the inevitable once the fake peace breaks down.
Oh that reminds me, bullshit artist formerly known as, any update on those broken treaties that you mentioned earlier?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 03:56:12 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 03:41:45 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 02:41:53 PMAgain, you are doing the blame game, why?
I'd already stated in my post started by whoever, but people are dying flat out, villages burned and ethnic cleansing.. The world is fucked, some poster put on here a while back and its stayed with me, a good meteor attack would sort it out
So put down the history book, we all know that. Humans are a horrible species in times of conflict, even more so in the modern era
I think its utterly wild you are doing a whitewashing of history. I don't need to put down a history book. You need to pick up one. You need to educate yourself rather than live a life of blissful igorance.
Those responsible for horrific acts, for genocides, for ethnic cleansing, for colionalism should be held accountable - not have it glossed over.
Jesus lad.. what do you need here? we can go back hundreds, thousands of years of colonialism, who will we start with first? the Greeks? Romans, the Egyptians.. Not one clue what you need here.. Fix the problem now, and stop looking for heads on a stick.
Who da f**k is trying to gloss over it?
You're a melt ;D
You're trying to gloss it over. The colonisation committed by the West is not even a century old. A lot of the African and Asian countries were colonised by European countries for large parts of the last century. Most African countries are in their relevant infancy of independence. Hence why those countries are so war torn and unstable. You call me a melt but you don't think their colonisers should be held to account for the current situations? That's incredibly illogical.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 04:54:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 03:56:12 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 03:41:45 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 02:41:53 PMAgain, you are doing the blame game, why?
I'd already stated in my post started by whoever, but people are dying flat out, villages burned and ethnic cleansing.. The world is fucked, some poster put on here a while back and its stayed with me, a good meteor attack would sort it out
So put down the history book, we all know that. Humans are a horrible species in times of conflict, even more so in the modern era
I think its utterly wild you are doing a whitewashing of history. I don't need to put down a history book. You need to pick up one. You need to educate yourself rather than live a life of blissful igorance.
Those responsible for horrific acts, for genocides, for ethnic cleansing, for colionalism should be held accountable - not have it glossed over.
Jesus lad.. what do you need here? we can go back hundreds, thousands of years of colonialism, who will we start with first? the Greeks? Romans, the Egyptians.. Not one clue what you need here.. Fix the problem now, and stop looking for heads on a stick.
Who da f**k is trying to gloss over it?
You're a melt ;D
You're trying to gloss it over. The colonisation committed by the West is not even a century old. A lot of the African and Asian countries were colonised by European countries for large parts of the last century. Most African countries are in their relevant infancy of independence. Hence why those countries are so war torn and unstable. You call me a melt but you don't think their colonisers should be held to account for the current situations? That's incredibly illogical.
If you can point out where I said they shouldn't be held to account I'll not continue.
Now what we going to do about the senseless murdering in all those countries?
Putting blame on countries is not what I asked..
But no doubt you'll remind me again who's at fault, only a simpleton would keep asking that, though so who knows
While we're on the topic of colonialism - it's another massive tankie blindspot. They love to whine about the sins of the west but conveniently ignore the only unreconstructed 17-18- 19th C empire that didn't break up and still exists to this day. Yes you've guessed it. Masquerades as a 'federation' these days.
Btw, How about it, bullshit artist, any update on the broken treaties?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 05:45:13 PMIf you can point out where I said they shouldn't be held to account I'll not continue.
Now what we going to do about the senseless murdering in all those countries?
Putting blame on countries is not what I asked..
But no doubt you'll remind me again who's at fault, only a simpleton would keep asking that, though so who knows
I think it's quite obvious you don't want to hear who is at fault. It's very difficult to solve the turmoil in these ex colonial countries due to the damage the coloinial powers. This is no simple solution but the perpetrators of colioialism walked way with zero accountability, they walked away with medals pinned on them, with riches and titles. For some reason you don't deem that worthy of comment. That's in the past in your mind and shouldn't be talked about.
I think it's very relevant that us in the Western world acknowledge the damage and legacy that our leaders and governments have inflicted on the world and continue to do so. It's very important that we are aware that our media outlets and our leaders continue to whitewash history and continue to protect war criminals. When the West moralises and pontificates on conflicts, we should see for how insincere and cynical these words are. The genocide in Gaza has shown us the West has not rehabilitated itself one bit.
We have families in this part of the land still being humiliated and denied justice for their loved ones from one of the Western Superpowers. Am I a tankie for thinking the West has some brass neck to act all high and mighty on Ukraine when they have been every bit as savage elsewhere?
So you actually are a simpleton
As you've not pointed out we're I said they shouldn't be held to account
And continued with explaining who did what!
Children learning first year history know this stuff!
With zero explanation of how this should be fixed other than, there is no simple solution!
Bonkers, the west keep voting in the same people and still getting the same results, rinse repeat.. of course China Russia North Korea have the right formula, dictators, that will continue also, as for the Middle East, no one really, on a world stage, cares it seems..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 07:06:09 PMSo you actually are a simpleton
As you've not pointed out we're I said they shouldn't be held to account
And continued with explaining who did what!
Children learning first year history know this stuff!
With zero explanation of how this should be fixed other than, there is no simple solution!
Bonkers, the west keep voting in the same people and still getting the same results, rinse repeat.. of course China Russia North Korea have the right formula, dictators, that will continue also, as for the Middle East, no one really, on a world stage, cares it seems..
You're being obtuse here. You have umpteem times now you don't want to talk about accountability. Why not? You can't answer that.
You're throwing North Korea and China in here now. It's not a binary thing. The West is not a superior power, it's actually got a much worse legacy and track record when it comes to war, imperialism and genocide. Our media and our government leaders whitewash it and you seem to be dictating to me now that I am not allowed mention it and when I keep alluding to the fact that don't want to adddress it, you call me a simpleton. I don't why you are so hot headed about pointing out the context of why African countries are war torn and impoverished. Why does stating the reason behind it make you so angry?
I already know, why do I need to explain why the African countries are at war?
Stating the bleeding obvious will not solve it..
What's going to fix it?
Lenny Henry was explaining how much he thinks is owed for colonialism
Where does that go? Who is paying for that? How will it fix things
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 07:18:37 PMI already know, why do I need to explain why the African countries are at war?
Stating the bleeding obvious will not solve it..
What's going to fix it?
Lenny Henry was explaining how much he thinks is owed for colonialism
Where does that go? Who is paying for that? How will it fix things
I've told I don't know the answer for that. It's a very complex situation, the legacy or colonialism, the damage it does, the erosion of your culture and values and the dehumanisation is a very difficult and complex thing to turn around - not to mention the pillaging of land and resources and the culture that itself attaches to those who grew up with it.
You can look at the plight of the native Americans or Aboriginals and the fact they have nearly being wiped out to extinction, their cultures and values are dying, they are impoverished, they have little material wealth, they are outsiders in their own native lands. Sometimes you can't undo the damage done by colonialism.
My point is that it is no wonder African countries are the way they are when you look at history of what they have had imposed on them. And it is clear who it is the blame for it and it is the perpetrators have whitewashed it from their history. The Western propaganda machine would put the North Korean one to shame, IMO. With all the heinous legacy, we tell the world we are the good guys and we are here to deliver freedom, democracy and civilisation.
https://www.ft.com/content/22b3b203-27a3-455f-9ed2-ce59622b563f
Ukraine and its European allies are insisting negotiations to end the war with Russia be based on current front lines, after mixed signals from the White House over US President Donald Trump's willingness to endorse Moscow's territorial demands. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and the leaders of nine countries including France, the UK, Germany and Italy, said on Tuesday that rather than Kyiv ceding any further territory to Moscow, "the current line of contact should be the starting point of negotiations". The statement was also signed by European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen. The Financial Times reported that a volatile meeting last week Trump urged Zelenskyy to surrender the entire Donbas region to Russia, although he later endorsed a freeze of the present territorial positions. Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov on Tuesday rejected Trump's idea of an immediate ceasefire, saying it contradicts the understandings reached at a meeting with Russia's President Vladimir Putin in Alaska in August
Quote from: Hand of God on October 21, 2025, 07:26:04 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2025, 07:18:37 PMI already know, why do I need to explain why the African countries are at war?
Stating the bleeding obvious will not solve it..
What's going to fix it?
Lenny Henry was explaining how much he thinks is owed for colonialism
Where does that go? Who is paying for that? How will it fix things
I've told I don't know the answer for that. It's a very complex situation, the legacy or colonialism, the damage it does, the erosion of your culture and values and the dehumanisation is a very difficult and complex thing to turn around - not to mention the pillaging of land and resources and the culture that itself attaches to those who grew up with it.
You can look at the plight of the native Americans or Aboriginals and the fact they have nearly being wiped out to extinction, their cultures and values are dying, they are impoverished, they have little material wealth, they are outsiders in their own native lands. Sometimes you can't undo the damage done by colonialism.
My point is that it is no wonder African countries are the way they are when you look at history of what they have had imposed on them. And it is clear who it is the blame for it and it is the perpetrators have whitewashed it from their history. The Western propaganda machine would put the North Korean one to shame, IMO. With all the heinous legacy, we tell the world we are the good guys and we are here to deliver freedom, democracy and civilisation.
Stop the blaming as it's done and they won't shoot themselves or pay out..
These countries have been ruined by the pillaging which may take centuries to heal itself, it's on those countries (the West)to build infrastructures in those places that will strengthen their economies increase employment and ask for nothing for it.. but must be purely on the governments visions and not their own.
Giving them money would also be pointless as the governments are corrupt as feck..
Impossible task, people that complain about immigration illegal or legal have to stump up the cash (tax) to pay for it. Good luck getting people to pay for their countries history..
Fix problems at source will automatically reduce immigration, reduce civil wars..
Whatever brainwashing is going on it goes both ways.. the right are brainwashed the left just as much. Pro Russian pro West, anti West etc
Right, so finally getting round to the nonsense posted yesterday by that numbSkull HoG.
Btw before I start numbSkull, any update on which treaties with Russia the west/Ukraine have broken? Running away from simple questions as usual?
He won't answer of course just like he won't rebut any of the information below (because he can't). He will however, repeat his assertions endlessly.
So, on to the imaginary 'coup':
1. A coup is a specific thing. Look up the definition. The political change in Ukraine during the Revolution of Dignity was brought about by millions of ordinary Ukrainians. A grassroots revolution. It's striking that it's a tankies wet dream of the masses rising up against oppression but when a real world case actually arises they side with the oppressor. Not surprising really given what they turn a blind eye to world wide when it doesn't suit their ideology.
2. numbSkull states that the US invested 'billions' into his imaginary coup. There is no evidence for this assertion or of CIA involvement. The truth is that the Americans were caught off guard and arrived late to events. numbSkull has previously asserted that John McCain handing out Ham Sandwiches is proof of CIA involvement. Utterly ludicrous.
3. Tankies love to state that Yanukovych was democratically-elected and he was but they seem to think this means that Ukrainians should eat whatever shit he serves up to them over the course of the presidency. Tankies also like to ignore what he did - promised closer economic ties with the EU during campaigning. Negotiated the EU Accession agreement when elected. Put it before parliament. Had it ratified. (No better expression of democracy than that). Went to Vilnius to sign it. Changed his mind under coercion from Putin and stated instead he was going to sign an agreement promising closer economic ties with Russia. Denial of democracy right there at the whim of Putin and Yanukovych. Tankies like to brush past all this. Oh yes and he also stole Billions from the Ukrainian exchequer. Something on it's own that should have seen him booted out, but anyway.
4. Ukrainians I've spoken to stated that it was a huge disappointment but having developed a certain cynicism regarding their governments, not a huge surprise either. So the protests were small initially. Yanukovych's big mistake was to send the Berkut to smash the f**k out of some students. Badly. Ukrainians are not slaves like the Russians and he had crossed a line that they would not accept. That is when the protests swelled into what they became.
5. Nuland was caught on tape arrogantly discussing who the US would prefer to the Prime Minister. Tankies love to state this as further proof of the US choosing the Ukrainian government. The truth is Yanukovych himself negotiated a deal with the opposition whereby he would remain as president and the opposition choose a Prime Minister.
6. Yanokoych was still president when he chose to flee to Russia. The Ukrainian parliament then voted to remove him from his office. Yes, that's right, a vote. By the representatives of the Ukrainian people in their parliament.
So, no numbSkull it wasn't a coup. And it's not widely accepted that it was or even accepted that it was at all, except in Tankie circles that feed off Russian propaganda videos on YouTube or elsewhere. They are easy meat for Russian propaganda given their ideology.
He hasn't openly blamed "da dues" yet. Couldn't possibly be Skull.
Nally Stand back from beyond the digital grave perhaps, if he's not already one of the others.
Quote from: gallsman on October 22, 2025, 01:56:16 PMHe hasn't openly blamed "da dues" yet. Couldn't possibly be Skull.
Nally Stand back from beyond the digital grave perhaps, if he's not already one of the others.
Nah, it's him.
I think he realised open anti-semitism isn't the done thing so decided to reinvent himself.
Russia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo
Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2025, 05:33:02 PMRussia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo
Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.
Do you reside in some kind of alternate universe?
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2025, 05:44:04 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2025, 05:33:02 PMRussia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo
Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.
Do you reside in some kind of alternate universe?
So when I pointed out the lack of condemnation of Russian blowing up children, this was what you came up with?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2025, 07:52:35 AMQuote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2025, 05:44:04 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2025, 05:33:02 PMRussia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo
Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.
Do you reside in some kind of alternate universe?
So when I pointed out the lack of condemnation of Russian blowing up children, this was what you came up with?
Any condemnation of Russia from Connolly always goes like this:
1. I condemn Russia (very briefly)
2. War is bad (warming up now to her favourite topic)
3. The west is at fault for giving Ukraine the weapons to defend itself mixed in with the west is to blame (her favourite topic and the main part of anything she ever has to say about Ukraine).
Russia loves this btw. Useful idiots like Connolly doing their dirty work for them.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2025, 05:33:02 PMRussia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo
Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.
Another utterly baseless smear.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 09:27:36 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2025, 05:33:02 PMRussia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo
Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.
Another utterly baseless smear.
OK did she condemn it?
https://www.ft.com/content/7bcc7206-db12-4aab-b84d-7e02e1a1400f
The US is imposing sanctions on Russia's two biggest oil companies, Rosneft and Lukoil, aiming to "degrade" Vladimir Putin's war chest and support Donald Trump's effort to end the war in Ukraine
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2025, 10:42:28 AMQuote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 09:27:36 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2025, 05:33:02 PMRussia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo
Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.
Another utterly baseless smear.
OK did she condemn it?
If you want her to condemn every scummy act carried out by every warmongering scummy nation in the world I don't think she'll have time for much else tbh.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2025, 10:42:28 AMQuote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 09:27:36 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2025, 05:33:02 PMRussia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo
Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.
Another utterly baseless smear.
OK did she condemn it?
Has she refused to condemn it? You have said she won't condemn it. I'm sure she will condemn it if questioned as she has done repeatedly with Russian war crimes throughout.
Keep on smearing though. It's not having the impact you desire.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 02:35:23 PMHas she refused to condemn it? You have said she won't condemn it. I'm sure she will condemn it if questioned as she has done repeatedly with Russian war crimes throughout.
Keep on smearing though. It's not having the impact you desire.
But will she manage to condemn it without mentioning NATO or Gaza in the same sentence?
She is a bit like the unionists, who never manage to condemn anything involving loyalists without somehow mentioning SF/IRA.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2025, 05:33:02 PMRussia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo
Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.
Israel blows up kindergartens. Firing missiles at them is Junior C
Quote from: seafoid on October 23, 2025, 04:36:24 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2025, 05:33:02 PMRussia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo
Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.
Israel blows up kindergartens. Firing missiles at them is Junior C
Oh wise up with this Senior hurling, Junior hurling shite. Russia has already done the lot in Ukraine ffs.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2025, 04:00:01 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 02:35:23 PMHas she refused to condemn it? You have said she won't condemn it. I'm sure she will condemn it if questioned as she has done repeatedly with Russian war crimes throughout.
Keep on smearing though. It's not having the impact you desire.
But will she manage to condemn it without mentioning NATO or Gaza in the same sentence?
She is a bit like the unionists, who never manage to condemn anything involving loyalists without somehow mentioning SF/IRA.
She has done this numerous of times in relation to criticising Russia.
Again I have to object to the utterly dishonest framing you are engaging in.
If people cannot accept that the Wests intentions in Ukraine are not sincere and if they deny their meddling in the regime change in Ukraine then they are not honest brokers.
You and others keep assigning a position CC has never stated as you feel it will damage her credibility. That's smear.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 07:01:55 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2025, 04:00:01 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 02:35:23 PMHas she refused to condemn it? You have said she won't condemn it. I'm sure she will condemn it if questioned as she has done repeatedly with Russian war crimes throughout.
Keep on smearing though. It's not having the impact you desire.
But will she manage to condemn it without mentioning NATO or Gaza in the same sentence?
She is a bit like the unionists, who never manage to condemn anything involving loyalists without somehow mentioning SF/IRA.
She has done this numerous of times in relation to criticising Russia.
Again I have to object to the utterly dishonest framing you are engaging in.
If people cannot accept that the Wests intentions in Ukraine are not sincere and if they deny their meddling in the regime change in Ukraine then they are not honest brokers.
You and others keep assigning a position CC has never stated as you feel it will damage her credibility. That's smear.
The problem with your thesis numbSkull is that there was no 'regime change' in Ukraine.
Oh btw, have you dug up any treaties with Russia that the west/Ukraine broke?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on October 23, 2025, 07:12:06 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 07:01:55 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2025, 04:00:01 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 02:35:23 PMHas she refused to condemn it? You have said she won't condemn it. I'm sure she will condemn it if questioned as she has done repeatedly with Russian war crimes throughout.
Keep on smearing though. It's not having the impact you desire.
But will she manage to condemn it without mentioning NATO or Gaza in the same sentence?
She is a bit like the unionists, who never manage to condemn anything involving loyalists without somehow mentioning SF/IRA.
She has done this numerous of times in relation to criticising Russia.
Again I have to object to the utterly dishonest framing you are engaging in.
If people cannot accept that the Wests intentions in Ukraine are not sincere and if they deny their meddling in the regime change in Ukraine then they are not honest brokers.
You and others keep assigning a position CC has never stated as you feel it will damage her credibility. That's smear.
The problem with your thesis numbSkull is that there was no 'regime change' in Ukraine.
Oh btw, have you dug up any treaties with Russia that the west/Ukraine broke?
More fantasy, let's pretend something and then say how opposed we are to it. No need for reality.
https://www.ft.com/content/22b3b203-27a3-455f-9ed2-ce59622b563f
Ukraine and its European allies are preparing a peace deal plan that would keep the US onside in future negotiations with Russia, after mixed signals from the White House over US President Donald Trump's willingness to endorse Moscow's territorial demands. On Tuesday national security advisers from European countries were discussing the details of the plan, ahead of a meeting of a "coalition of the willing" countries in London on Friday. It would include a peace board to be chaired by Trump and modelled on the "board of peace" expected to oversee Gaza in the Israel-Hamas peace plan brokered by the US, two EU officials said. Ukraine and its European allies are insisting, however, that talks to end the war should be based on the current frontline.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 24, 2025, 12:01:17 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on October 23, 2025, 07:12:06 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 07:01:55 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2025, 04:00:01 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 23, 2025, 02:35:23 PMHas she refused to condemn it? You have said she won't condemn it. I'm sure she will condemn it if questioned as she has done repeatedly with Russian war crimes throughout.
Keep on smearing though. It's not having the impact you desire.
But will she manage to condemn it without mentioning NATO or Gaza in the same sentence?
She is a bit like the unionists, who never manage to condemn anything involving loyalists without somehow mentioning SF/IRA.
She has done this numerous of times in relation to criticising Russia.
Again I have to object to the utterly dishonest framing you are engaging in.
If people cannot accept that the Wests intentions in Ukraine are not sincere and if they deny their meddling in the regime change in Ukraine then they are not honest brokers.
You and others keep assigning a position CC has never stated as you feel it will damage her credibility. That's smear.
The problem with your thesis numbSkull is that there was no 'regime change' in Ukraine.
Oh btw, have you dug up any treaties with Russia that the west/Ukraine broke?
More fantasy, let's pretend something and then say how opposed we are to it. No need for reality.
Like pretending Catherine Connolly refused to condemn the missile fired at the kindegarten?
That sorta pretending?
Talk about a lack of self awareness
Quote from: armaghniac on October 24, 2025, 12:01:17 AMMore fantasy, let's pretend something and then say how opposed we are to it. No need for reality.
You're the guy consistently smearing a politician with views and positions she does not hold.
You're far away from reality.
Quote from: Hand of God on October 24, 2025, 04:16:32 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 24, 2025, 12:01:17 AMMore fantasy, let's pretend something and then say how opposed we are to it. No need for reality.
You're the guy consistently smearing a politician with views and positions she does not hold.
You're far away from reality.
Ok, then, do you have a quote from here condemning the attack on the Kindergarten?
Why would Heather Humphries complain about a missile fired at a kindergarten by Russia?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/10/24/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news-zelensky-starmer-talks/
Vladimir Putin is "running out of money, troops and ideas," the head of Nato said on Friday, as Sir Keir Starmer held a coalition of the willing meeting to discuss further support for Ukraine.
Mark Rutte, the Nato secretary-general, said the Russian president's "delusional aggression" had caused him to funnel huge amounts of money and troops into his war on Ukraine with limited success, leaving him with few ideas on how to win.
"The developments on the battlefield show that our support for Ukraine is working, and we must continue in the same way," added Mr Rutte.
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2025, 08:59:03 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/10/24/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news-zelensky-starmer-talks/
Vladimir Putin is "running out of money, troops and ideas," the head of Nato said on Friday, as Sir Keir Starmer held a coalition of the willing meeting to discuss further support for Ukraine.
Mark Rutte, the Nato secretary-general, said the Russian president's "delusional aggression" had caused him to funnel huge amounts of money and troops into his war on Ukraine with limited success, leaving him with few ideas on how to win.
"The developments on the battlefield show that our support for Ukraine is working, and we must continue in the same way," added Mr Rutte.
Riiiiiiight.
What was the point of posting that, even?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 24, 2025, 08:25:58 PMQuote from: Hand of God on October 24, 2025, 04:16:32 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 24, 2025, 12:01:17 AMMore fantasy, let's pretend something and then say how opposed we are to it. No need for reality.
You're the guy consistently smearing a politician with views and positions she does not hold.
You're far away from reality.
Ok, then, do you have a quote from here condemning the attack on the Kindergarten?
If this is the logic we're using, I'd be forced to conclude that on this board you have refused to condemn the actions of Gary Glitter and Jimmy Savile
Which would make you rather a disgusting cretin
That's precisely what your mate HoG has been up to.
Quote from: gallsman on October 25, 2025, 01:58:17 PMThat's precisely what your mate HoG has been up to.
I haven't.
More misrepresentations and lies from you.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/10/28/putins-energy-weapon-has-now-come-back-to-bite-him/
We are seeing a grinding away of the reserves of companies and ordinary Russian families whose savings are dwindling as they have to pay higher food and other prices. The social contract has been broken," said Mark Galeotti, author of the book Putin's Wars: From Chechnya to Ukraine.
"Putin had essentially based his regime on a deal that said, 'You stay out of politics, you let us run the country – and, of course, embezzle hand over fist – and you too will have a steadily improving quality of life,'" he said.
"Nobody really believes that is going to return. Putin's attempt to appeal to patriotism and national glory is threadbare," he told Sir Richard Dearlove, the former head of MI6, on the One Decision podcast.
Excellent article by a Ukrainian journalist. One for all tankies to read. Should be compulsory reading for president-elect Catherine Connolly.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/zarah-sultanas-pompous-luxury-beliefs-about-ukraine/
Zarah Sultana loves to pose as a champion of the working class, seeing the world through the lens of class struggle. Even, it seems, the war in Ukraine. In her latest interview, she calls Nato 'an imperialist war machine' and advocates for putting all our effort into ending the war, rather than making weapons, thereby giving money to those who profit from conflict. 'Putin is a dictator, a gangster,' she says, but 'Zelensky isn't a friend of the working class either'. She met Ukrainians and Russians in Paris, she adds, who explained this to her.
I'd like to add my own voice to this debate. I think I'd qualify, in her book, as working class. I'm from a family that lived on what is, by British standards, the breadline. My mother spends 12-hour night shifts at a paper factory that could be bombed by Russia any day, for a salary that works out at about £4,000 a year. Our upbringing is typical of those in our village. I have to inform Sultana that her class-war rhetoric would strike working-class Ukrainians as an egregious, pompous luxury belief – marinated in the fashionable politics of people who jet off to Paris to compare notes on the working class.
Sultana embodies the kind of British leftist who would do anything for the world's working class except listen to them. From the offset, she has jumped the wrong way. Russia's appetite for its former colony – in the name of recreating the 'Rusky Mir' – is a textbook example of imperialism. And yet, just before the full-scale war, she signed a statement urging Nato to halt its 'eastward expansion' and 'address Russia's security concerns'. Now, four years later, she is still echoing Russia's talking points. Sultana talks as if Zelensky, Starmer and Donald Trump haven't spent every day trying to find a way to confront neo-imperialist occupation.
And yes, Britain could 'stop the war' by doing what she wants: cutting off weapons for Ukraine and abandoning it with no way to defend itself. But it wasn't Zelesnky's choice to start this war, and he has no option but to fight it, while begging the world for missiles and jets for Ukrainians to survive. If the arms didn't come, the fighting would stop – and the subjugation would start. A subjugation that Ukraine experienced during the Nazi occupation and then under communism. One that the butchered people of Bucha experienced in 2022. Is this the remedy that Ms Sultana prescribes? That we stop fighting, take our beating and call it 'peace'? Is this her definition of working-class empowerment? When a country is faced with subjection, it doesn't matter if you're working or middle class: the Russian bullet goes through the flesh just as easily.
The truth is that when working-class Russian soldiers crossed the border to occupy Ukraine, working-class Ukrainians queued at the enlistment offices to defend their homes. Today, even more working-class Russians, lured by fat military contracts, are killing Ukrainians for cash, at the frontline and in the rear, where Russian pilots rain missiles on working-class apartment blocks. Just last week, a Russian drone hit a Kyiv nursery full of working-class toddlers.
There is no doubt that arms manufacturers profit from war, that's the reality of the modern world: they can't produce weapons for free, and Ukrainians can't defend themselves with moral platitudes. Defence needs arms, arms need a business model. Without western weapons, the mass graves in Bucha and Izium would stretch across the entire country. The working class of Ukraine do not wish to see their families slaughtered. If Sultana doesn't want a 'forever war' and truly believes in 'wages, not weapons; welfare, not warfare', as she writes, she should direct that message to Putin and demand he withdraw his troops.
Ukrainians have been incredibly lucky to have Britain by their side as a true ally in the darkest days. London has committed more than £20 billion to Ukraine since the full-scale war began, including £13 billion in military aid. According to an Ipsos poll, most Britons, 59 per cent, continue to support this today, and more than half believe that economic sanctions on Russia are necessary, even if it means higher energy and food prices. This is not an easy toll for a nation living so far from the actual conflict, and every Ukrainian I know, including myself, will forever be grateful for such a generous contribution. Without British artillery shells, drones and missiles, there would be many more dead Ukrainians, and no more independent and free Ukraine.
The strange thing is that, having lived in Ukraine for most of my life, Sultana's class-war politics just don't apply. The cleavage that defined politics in my lifetime was between those who looked to Moscow or those who saw Ukraine as part of democratic Europe. The market economy Sultana criticises has been Ukraine's lifeline: our post-Soviet battle has been rooting out corruption and replacing oligarchy with a system of civil liberties, rights and the rule of law. After a slow start, Ukraine was making good progress on this front, which Putin could not tolerate as we were providing a model of what Russia might be if it did the same. A model that maximises opportunities for the poor.
Sultana may deplore the 'capitalism' of the United Kingdom, but as I am a beneficiary of that system – since arriving at this magazine three years ago and given complete freedom to write – I can understand why this is what Ukrainians want for themselves. Stability. The rule of law. Democracy. My sense is that the British people instinctively understand this, which explains their incredible solidarity with Ukraine – seen not just with their military help, but in the Ukrainian flags which still fly around the country. In this way, the workers of the world do unite: against tyranny, imperialist repression and the ideology that hard-left people like Sultana flirt with. An ideology that only the elite can afford.
I hope Sultana keeps enjoying lecturing about peace under the safe skies protected by the Nato alliance she despises. If she truly knows how to make the Russian guns fall silent, if she knows the right way to put all that necessary effort to achieve a lasting peace, she's more than welcome to travel with me to Kyiv and explain her groundbreaking plan to the Ukrainian nation and President Zelensky. There are plenty of working-class Ukrainians who would be only too pleased to explain their hopes for their own country, their gratitude for Britain's support – and their hard-won knowledge that freedom isn't free, it needs to be fought for and defended.
WRITTEN BY
Svitlana Morenets
Svitlana Morenets is a Ukrainian journalist and a staff writer at The Spectator.
UN Commission says Russian drones target civilians and destroy infrastructure, making localities in frontline provinces of Ukraine unliveable
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/un-commission-says-russian-drones-target-civilians-and-destroy
Russian Telegram channels run by the perpetrators themselves, or by persons close to the Russian drone units involved, have disseminated hundreds of videos of civilians being killed or injured, which amounts to the war crime of outrages upon dignity. They have also posted threatening texts announcing further attacks and exhorting the population to leave.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/29/trump-breaks-sino-russian-axis-defeat-putin/
While Donald Trump's primary objective during Thursday's summit with Xi Jinping was to negotiate a favourable trade deal, there is also the tantalising prospect that it could help to achieve a breakthrough in his efforts to end the war in Ukraine.
Russia's ability to maintain its military campaign in the Ukraine conflict owes much to the support it has received from Beijing, not least China's willingness to continue buying large quantities of Russian oil in spite of the Western sanctions imposed at the start of the conflict.
Together with India, China is responsible for importing between 3.5 and 4.5 million barrels of Russian oil daily, with the profits being used to fund Vladimir Putin's war effort in Ukraine.
In addition, the Chinese have been providing Moscow with a range of technological support, including drones and missile systems, that have enabled the Russian military to overcome the potentially catastrophic setbacks it has suffered on the battlefield.
Ending the so-called "no limits" strategic partnership between the autocratic regimes in Moscow and Beijing has therefore become one of the Trump administration's key objectives, and helps to explain why Trump has been so keen to curry favour with Putin.
This is despite the very obvious evidence that the Russian leader shows no inclination of responding positively to Trump's efforts to bring hostilities to an end in Ukraine.
.
Trump's belated realisation that Putin has no genuine interest in accepting a ceasefire in Ukraine was the reason the US leader opted to abandon his plans to hold another face-to-face summit with his Russian opposite number in Budapest, conceding that to do so would be a "waste of time".
Since then, Trump has turned his attention to targeting Russia's lucrative oil trade, a move that poses a direct challenge to Beijing's existing partnership with Moscow.
The positive comments made by both the US and Chinese delegations following Trump's meeting with Xi certainly indicate there is every prospect of a strong improvement in relations between Washington and Beijing, one that could ultimately be at Moscow's expense, certainly so far as maintaining the lucrative oil trade with China is concerned.
Any collapse in Russia's remaining oil exports will leave Putin without the ability to fund his "special military operation" in Ukraine, leaving him with little option but to accept Trump's ceasefire terms.
Also of note :
https://www.ft.com/content/7debcf11-5213-44ac-96ff-f18525bc42b5
According to The Economist, 100,000 Russian troops have been killed in combat in 2025 alone — a roughly five to one ratio of Ukraine's deaths. That is at least six times the Soviet Union's 1980s death toll in Afghanistan — an unpopular war that drained support for Moscow's regime
Quote from: seafoid on October 30, 2025, 03:02:46 PMAlso of note :
https://www.ft.com/content/7debcf11-5213-44ac-96ff-f18525bc42b5
According to The Economist, 100,000 Russian troops have been killed in combat in 2025 alone — a roughly five to one ratio of Ukraine's deaths. That is at least six times the Soviet Union's 1980s death toll in Afghanistan — an unpopular war that drained support for Moscow's regime
Something tells me these figures are highly inflated and loaded with spin. Interesting stat. I saw: the Russians have lost 10% more men (est. at 15,500) than last summer, but have halved the amount of men they lost per sq. km. gained (10 v 5). So, basically, they are gaining ground faster, and with fewer losses per mile. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian casualties are reckoned to be 17,000 for the same period. And the Russians have basically taken another important city - Pokrovsk. No great signs this is a hugely unpopular war, either, as far as I can see.
Quote from: Genocide Organ on October 30, 2025, 04:24:52 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 30, 2025, 03:02:46 PMAlso of note :
https://www.ft.com/content/7debcf11-5213-44ac-96ff-f18525bc42b5
According to The Economist, 100,000 Russian troops have been killed in combat in 2025 alone — a roughly five to one ratio of Ukraine's deaths. That is at least six times the Soviet Union's 1980s death toll in Afghanistan — an unpopular war that drained support for Moscow's regime
Something tells me these figures are highly inflated and loaded with spin. Interesting stat. I saw: the Russians have lost 10% more men (est. at 15,500) than last summer, but have halved the amount of men they lost per sq. km. gained (10 v 5). So, basically, they are gaining ground faster, and with fewer losses per mile. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian casualties are reckoned to be 17,000 for the same period. And the Russians have basically taken another important city - Pokrovsk. No great signs this is a hugely unpopular war, either, as far as I can see.
Not sure I've seen too many popular wars tbh
Quote from: Genocide Organ on October 30, 2025, 04:24:52 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 30, 2025, 03:02:46 PMAlso of note :
https://www.ft.com/content/7debcf11-5213-44ac-96ff-f18525bc42b5
According to The Economist, 100,000 Russian troops have been killed in combat in 2025 alone — a roughly five to one ratio of Ukraine's deaths. That is at least six times the Soviet Union's 1980s death toll in Afghanistan — an unpopular war that drained support for Moscow's regime
Something tells me these figures are highly inflated and loaded with spin. Interesting stat. I saw: the Russians have lost 10% more men (est. at 15,500) than last summer, but have halved the amount of men they lost per sq. km. gained (10 v 5). So, basically, they are gaining ground faster, and with fewer losses per mile. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian casualties are reckoned to be 17,000 for the same period. And the Russians have basically taken another important city - Pokrovsk. No great signs this is a hugely unpopular war, either, as far as I can see.
You believe one source but not another?
Hard to believe too much from the 'legacy media' these days.
Quote from: Genocide Organ on October 30, 2025, 06:13:29 PMHard to believe too much from the 'legacy media' these days.
Can you post your source for the stats you outlined?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on October 30, 2025, 06:16:38 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on October 30, 2025, 06:13:29 PMHard to believe too much from the 'legacy media' these days.
Can you post your source for the stats you outlined?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViDZlUGcDUY
Quote from: Genocide Organ on October 30, 2025, 04:24:52 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 30, 2025, 03:02:46 PMAlso of note :
https://www.ft.com/content/7debcf11-5213-44ac-96ff-f18525bc42b5
According to The Economist, 100,000 Russian troops have been killed in combat in 2025 alone — a roughly five to one ratio of Ukraine's deaths. That is at least six times the Soviet Union's 1980s death toll in Afghanistan — an unpopular war that drained support for Moscow's regime
Something tells me these figures are highly inflated and loaded with spin. Interesting stat. I saw: the Russians have lost 10% more men (est. at 15,500) than last summer, but have halved the amount of men they lost per sq. km. gained (10 v 5). So, basically, they are gaining ground faster, and with fewer losses per mile. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian casualties are reckoned to be 17,000 for the same period. And the Russians have basically taken another important city - Pokrovsk. No great signs this is a hugely unpopular war, either, as far as I can see.
Have you got an alternative source?
Quote from: seafoid on October 30, 2025, 06:24:38 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on October 30, 2025, 04:24:52 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 30, 2025, 03:02:46 PMAlso of note :
https://www.ft.com/content/7debcf11-5213-44ac-96ff-f18525bc42b5
According to The Economist, 100,000 Russian troops have been killed in combat in 2025 alone — a roughly five to one ratio of Ukraine's deaths. That is at least six times the Soviet Union's 1980s death toll in Afghanistan — an unpopular war that drained support for Moscow's regime
Something tells me these figures are highly inflated and loaded with spin. Interesting stat. I saw: the Russians have lost 10% more men (est. at 15,500) than last summer, but have halved the amount of men they lost per sq. km. gained (10 v 5). So, basically, they are gaining ground faster, and with fewer losses per mile. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian casualties are reckoned to be 17,000 for the same period. And the Russians have basically taken another important city - Pokrovsk. No great signs this is a hugely unpopular war, either, as far as I can see.
Have you got an alternative source?
In a previous post, but here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViDZlUGcDUY
Quote from: Genocide Organ on October 30, 2025, 06:21:30 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on October 30, 2025, 06:16:38 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on October 30, 2025, 06:13:29 PMHard to believe too much from the 'legacy media' these days.
Can you post your source for the stats you outlined?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViDZlUGcDUY
Yeah, I've come across this Z-simp 'Bro' masquerading as a neutral 'analyst' before. His derision for Ukraine and enthusiasm for Russia is clear.
Disbelieve the 'legacy media' all you like but why you'd unquestioningly accept the output of some 'Canadian' (lol) YouTuber is beyond me. I think you like what you hear.
What I didn't hear were any sources mentioned for his casualty figures. His -50% Russian casualty rate/km2 is desperate spin for Russia's dismal progress. In fact that whole clip comes across as desperate cope for Russia's progress.
Anyway, my verdict? His analysis is for the BURDZ ;)
Quote from: Genocide Organ on October 30, 2025, 06:31:23 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 30, 2025, 06:24:38 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on October 30, 2025, 04:24:52 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 30, 2025, 03:02:46 PMAlso of note :
https://www.ft.com/content/7debcf11-5213-44ac-96ff-f18525bc42b5
According to The Economist, 100,000 Russian troops have been killed in combat in 2025 alone — a roughly five to one ratio of Ukraine's deaths. That is at least six times the Soviet Union's 1980s death toll in Afghanistan — an unpopular war that drained support for Moscow's regime
Something tells me these figures are highly inflated and loaded with spin. Interesting stat. I saw: the Russians have lost 10% more men (est. at 15,500) than last summer, but have halved the amount of men they lost per sq. km. gained (10 v 5). So, basically, they are gaining ground faster, and with fewer losses per mile. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian casualties are reckoned to be 17,000 for the same period. And the Russians have basically taken another important city - Pokrovsk. No great signs this is a hugely unpopular war, either, as far as I can see.
Have you got an alternative source?
In a previous post, but here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViDZlUGcDUY
I watched it. Who is the guy presenting ? First time I have come across him.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/10/28/putins-energy-weapon-has-now-come-back-to-bite-him/
But unless Putin is living in a dictator's fantasy world, he must know that his military offensive over the summer failed to break Ukraine's "fortress belt" and that he is running out of money for an endless war of attrition.
Autocratic regimes are notoriously brittle. They can appear rock-solid and then suddenly collapse. But they can also keep going for years, if ruthless enough. To rely too much on the easy solution of a palace coup is to indulge in wishful thinking.
The West is slowly winning. It must hold its nerve and ratchet up the pain. And for heaven's sake, release the $140bn of Russian reserves sitting in Belgium. Specious legal objections have gone on long enough.Putin's energy leverage over the West has evaporated.
The global oil glut is now so big that Trump can embargo Russia's oil production without risking an oil price shock at home. He almost certainly has assurances from Saudi Arabia that it will open the floodgates further if necessary to stabilise the market.
The latest US sanctions are the potent "long-arm" variant that strike economic terror everywhere. They target any shipper, insurer, buyer, or refiner, anywhere in the world, that dares to handle 3m b/d of exports from Lukoil and above all Rosneft, run by Putin's ex-KGB friend Igor Sechin. These are the two big beasts of Russian oil.
The EU has added another 112 tankers from Putin's shadow fleet to its proscribed list. It has pledged to stop buying any further liquefied natural gas from Russia from January 2027, and about time too since the EU currently imports more of Putin's LNG than the rest of the world together
Putin has to know that Ukraine will have enough money to fight on to 2027 or 2028 if need be. It must be made absolutely clear to him that there is no victorious way out of a disaster of his own making.
The Times, London [Roger Boyes]
"It is bitter to say, but Kiev will not last until spring. Despite all the encouraging words from the EU, there is simply no money or desire to continue to defend Ukraine.
Like others in the West, I admire the steadfastness of Ukrainians in their long, often inventive struggle against the Russians. However, with the approach of winter, Vladimir Zelensky's chances of holding out are melting before our eyes. Money for weapons, medicine and heat for Ukraine is running out. The Western will to support the conflict is fading. The defense of Kiev as an independent capital is no longer considered a strategic priority.
A different picture may emerge when looking at the rhetoric of European officials — the same von der Leyen calls on Europe to "fight for its values and the right to self—determination" – or at the lively actions at the front and in diplomatic corps. American sanctions are hitting Rosneft and Lukoil, trying to undermine the economic basis of the Putin regime.
But none of the above changes the course of the conflict much"
Quote from: DaleCooper on November 01, 2025, 07:37:21 PMThe Times, London [Roger Boyes]
"It is bitter to say, but Kiev will not last until spring. Despite all the encouraging words from the EU, there is simply no money or desire to continue to defend Ukraine.
Like others in the West, I admire the steadfastness of Ukrainians in their long, often inventive struggle against the Russians. However, with the approach of winter, Vladimir Zelensky's chances of holding out are melting before our eyes. Money for weapons, medicine and heat for Ukraine is running out. The Western will to support the conflict is fading. The defense of Kiev as an independent capital is no longer considered a strategic priority.
A different picture may emerge when looking at the rhetoric of European officials — the same von der Leyen calls on Europe to "fight for its values and the right to self—determination" – or at the lively actions at the front and in diplomatic corps. American sanctions are hitting Rosneft and Lukoil, trying to undermine the economic basis of the Putin regime.
But none of the above changes the course of the conflict much"
The loan on the Russian money in Euroclear and the sanctions on Rosneft and Lukoil give Ukraine a fighting chance. I wouldn't be so negative.
Quote from: DaleCooper on November 01, 2025, 07:37:21 PMThe Times, London [Roger Boyes]
"It is bitter to say, but Kiev will not last until spring. Despite all the encouraging words from the EU, there is simply no money or desire to continue to defend Ukraine.
Like others in the West, I admire the steadfastness of Ukrainians in their long, often inventive struggle against the Russians. However, with the approach of winter, Vladimir Zelensky's chances of holding out are melting before our eyes. Money for weapons, medicine and heat for Ukraine is running out. The Western will to support the conflict is fading. The defense of Kiev as an independent capital is no longer considered a strategic priority.
A different picture may emerge when looking at the rhetoric of European officials — the same von der Leyen calls on Europe to "fight for its values and the right to self—determination" – or at the lively actions at the front and in diplomatic corps. American sanctions are hitting Rosneft and Lukoil, trying to undermine the economic basis of the Putin regime.
But none of the above changes the course of the conflict much"
Just out of interest, can you provide the link to where you cut and pasted that from?
Google is a useful tool, hope this helps
Never seen so many know so much about the Ukraine, yet we been nowhere near it. You think we know enough about been bullied into the ground by a bigger neighbour!
Quote from: jb77 on November 01, 2025, 09:11:33 PMGoogle is a useful tool, hope this helps
No it doesn't help. Thanks for your useless input.
Where did you cut and paste from Dale?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 01, 2025, 08:32:58 PMQuote from: DaleCooper on November 01, 2025, 07:37:21 PMThe Times, London [Roger Boyes]
"It is bitter to say, but Kiev will not last until spring. Despite all the encouraging words from the EU, there is simply no money or desire to continue to defend Ukraine.
Like others in the West, I admire the steadfastness of Ukrainians in their long, often inventive struggle against the Russians. However, with the approach of winter, Vladimir Zelensky's chances of holding out are melting before our eyes. Money for weapons, medicine and heat for Ukraine is running out. The Western will to support the conflict is fading. The defense of Kiev as an independent capital is no longer considered a strategic priority.
A different picture may emerge when looking at the rhetoric of European officials — the same von der Leyen calls on Europe to "fight for its values and the right to self—determination" – or at the lively actions at the front and in diplomatic corps. American sanctions are hitting Rosneft and Lukoil, trying to undermine the economic basis of the Putin regime.
But none of the above changes the course of the conflict much"
Just out of interest, can you provide the link to where you cut and pasted that from?
Its an article of his, Roger Boyes, (https://archive.ph/fJdKn) predictable really. Roger leads the way in pushing some aspects of the Kremlin narrative, that their victory is inevitable, Russia is power incorporated etc. etc. therefore further european funding of resistance is futile.
When you read that cr'ap, dressed with (expensively bought) establishment lipstick, you know the Kremlin is in a bit of bother.
Quote from: Main Street on November 01, 2025, 09:41:43 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 01, 2025, 08:32:58 PMQuote from: DaleCooper on November 01, 2025, 07:37:21 PMThe Times, London [Roger Boyes]
"It is bitter to say, but Kiev will not last until spring. Despite all the encouraging words from the EU, there is simply no money or desire to continue to defend Ukraine.
Like others in the West, I admire the steadfastness of Ukrainians in their long, often inventive struggle against the Russians. However, with the approach of winter, Vladimir Zelensky's chances of holding out are melting before our eyes. Money for weapons, medicine and heat for Ukraine is running out. The Western will to support the conflict is fading. The defense of Kiev as an independent capital is no longer considered a strategic priority.
A different picture may emerge when looking at the rhetoric of European officials — the same von der Leyen calls on Europe to "fight for its values and the right to self—determination" – or at the lively actions at the front and in diplomatic corps. American sanctions are hitting Rosneft and Lukoil, trying to undermine the economic basis of the Putin regime.
But none of the above changes the course of the conflict much"
Just out of interest, can you provide the link to where you cut and pasted that from?
Its an article of his, Roger Boyes, (https://archive.ph/fJdKn) predictable really. Roger leads the way in pushing some aspects of the Kremlin narrative, that their victory is inevitable, Russia is power incorporated etc. etc. therefore further european funding of resistance is futile.
When you read that cr'ap, dressed with (expensively bought) establishment lipstick, you know the Kremlin is in a bit of bother.
Oh, I know all that, I'd just like to see where he cut and pasted it from.
Dale knows why.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 01, 2025, 09:48:12 PMQuote from: Main Street on November 01, 2025, 09:41:43 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 01, 2025, 08:32:58 PMQuote from: DaleCooper on November 01, 2025, 07:37:21 PMThe Times, London [Roger Boyes]
"It is bitter to say, but Kiev will not last until spring. Despite all the encouraging words from the EU, there is simply no money or desire to continue to defend Ukraine.
Like others in the West, I admire the steadfastness of Ukrainians in their long, often inventive struggle against the Russians. However, with the approach of winter, Vladimir Zelensky's chances of holding out are melting before our eyes. Money for weapons, medicine and heat for Ukraine is running out. The Western will to support the conflict is fading. The defense of Kiev as an independent capital is no longer considered a strategic priority.
A different picture may emerge when looking at the rhetoric of European officials — the same von der Leyen calls on Europe to "fight for its values and the right to self—determination" – or at the lively actions at the front and in diplomatic corps. American sanctions are hitting Rosneft and Lukoil, trying to undermine the economic basis of the Putin regime.
But none of the above changes the course of the conflict much"
Just out of interest, can you provide the link to where you cut and pasted that from?
Its an article of his, Roger Boyes, (https://archive.ph/fJdKn) predictable really. Roger leads the way in pushing some aspects of the Kremlin narrative, that their victory is inevitable, Russia is power incorporated etc. etc. therefore further european funding of resistance is futile.
When you read that cr'ap, dressed with (expensively bought) establishment lipstick, you know the Kremlin is in a bit of bother.
Oh, I know all that, I'd just like to see where he cut and pasted it from.
Dale knows why.
He/it could have cut and pasted it anywhere from a direct Kremlin orifice to a fully paid up English establishment newspaper.
Does it matter from where?
Russia still has less of Ukraine than in 2022.
At the present rate of progress they will have occupied Ukraine in 2291 at a cost of 100 million casualties.
They may be able to get the manpower, but they have mostly used up their Soviet stocks of kit, there are a few rusting tanks left, some of which might be made operational, but early in 2026 they will have little left and they are not manufacturing new ones at the same rate as they are losing them.
They Ukrainians have reduced oil production and these refineries used Western parts, and you cannot just phone up Germany and order more.
(https://us.v-cdn.net/cdn-cgi/image/quality=80,format=auto,fit=scale-down,height=2000,width=2000/6034073/uploads/611TQMQSQQZ5/image.png)
Quote from: Main Street on November 02, 2025, 01:02:33 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 01, 2025, 09:48:12 PMQuote from: Main Street on November 01, 2025, 09:41:43 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 01, 2025, 08:32:58 PMQuote from: DaleCooper on November 01, 2025, 07:37:21 PMThe Times, London [Roger Boyes]
"It is bitter to say, but Kiev will not last until spring. Despite all the encouraging words from the EU, there is simply no money or desire to continue to defend Ukraine.
Like others in the West, I admire the steadfastness of Ukrainians in their long, often inventive struggle against the Russians. However, with the approach of winter, Vladimir Zelensky's chances of holding out are melting before our eyes. Money for weapons, medicine and heat for Ukraine is running out. The Western will to support the conflict is fading. The defense of Kiev as an independent capital is no longer considered a strategic priority.
A different picture may emerge when looking at the rhetoric of European officials — the same von der Leyen calls on Europe to "fight for its values and the right to self—determination" – or at the lively actions at the front and in diplomatic corps. American sanctions are hitting Rosneft and Lukoil, trying to undermine the economic basis of the Putin regime.
But none of the above changes the course of the conflict much"
Just out of interest, can you provide the link to where you cut and pasted that from?
Its an article of his, Roger Boyes, (https://archive.ph/fJdKn) predictable really. Roger leads the way in pushing some aspects of the Kremlin narrative, that their victory is inevitable, Russia is power incorporated etc. etc. therefore further european funding of resistance is futile.
When you read that cr'ap, dressed with (expensively bought) establishment lipstick, you know the Kremlin is in a bit of bother.
Oh, I know all that, I'd just like to see where he cut and pasted it from.
Dale knows why.
He/it could have cut and pasted it anywhere from a direct Kremlin orifice to a fully paid up English establishment newspaper.
Does it matter from where?
I'm just curious where posters get their news from - i.e. a website that apparently goes to the bother of changing the original text (Kyiv -> Kyiv, Volodymyr -> Vladimir).
@ChrisO_wiki
3h • 13 tweets • 3 min read • Read on X
1/ Pokrovsk and Kupyansk are falsely being portrayed by the Russian media as decisive imminent victories, says Igor 'Strelkov' Girkin. He warns that Russsia is failing to make progress on the Zaporizhzhia front, which he describes as the decisive theatre of the Ukraine war.
2/ Writing from the jail where he has been imprisoned since last year on charges of inciting extremism, Girkin dismisses the increasingly bloody battles for Pokrovsk and Kupiansk – which have cost thousands of Russian lives – as irrelevant to the war's main objectives:
3/ "The tactical successes in Kupyansk and Pokrovsk, which give hope for the rapid liberation of these two cities (the Kharkiv and Donetsk axes), are being presented to our press as some kind of decisive victories.
4/ "I must emphasize once again that both of these successes were achieved in secondary axes of the Special Military Operation.
5/ "The Kupyansk axe is the Kharkiv Oblast, which we no longer lay claim to and which, as far as I understand, is not even included in our territorial exchange plans. Moreover, it leads us deep into enemy territory in a direct westward direction.
6/ "And Pokrovsk, which, in principle, plays no significant role without the capture of the entire Slovyansk-Kramatorsk agglomeration. Otherwise, the Donbas will not be liberated.
7/ "Pokrovsk is a salient in the Ukrainian Armed Forces' defences; taking it will only straighten their line of defence. Taking both of these points won't lead to the final collapse of the Ukrainian Armed Forces' front, their defeat and rout—which is what we should strive for.
8/ "At the same time, fierce fighting on the Zaporizhzhia Front isn't leading to any significant advances precisely because the enemy understands that this is the decisive front.
9/ "And it is here, if they are defeated and the front line is seriously pushed back, it will threaten their entire eastern group in the Donbas and in the Zaporizhzhia region to the east. There, the enemy is fighting fiercely.
10/ "We must understand that no tactical points, no advances of 10, 50, or even 100 kilometers will lead us to victory without defeating the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
11/ "We can take line after line, settlement after settlement, village after village, and even city after city (although the pace at which we are taking them is not impressive). If we don't set ourselves the goal of strategic victory, we will never achieve it.
12/ "Achieving a strategic victory without devoting all of the state's resources is impossible. The enemy understands this perfectly well and is straining all their forces. We, however, continue to pretend we're not fighting, but rather "conducting a special operation."
13/ "Therefore, my prognosis is as follows: After the liberation of Kupyansk and Pokrovsk, the situation will, unfortunately, not fundamentally change. Tactical successes will not lead to the collapse of the Ukrainian Armed Forces' front." /end
Source:
Стрелков Игорь Иванович
• • •
Phillips O'Brien newsletter
Weekend Update #157 (https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/weekend-update-157-the-battle-of): The Battle Of Pokrovsk Might Be Ending
And here it is today, 460 days later, with the Russians finally closing in on taking the town.
It would have shamed a snail to move at the pace that the Russian Army has moved at during this time. I checked and an average snail at a normal pace can move about 3 inches a minute—about 15 feet or 5 metres an hour. There are some legendarily fast snails that have moved at 10 feet a minute, but I'm more than happy to use the speed of a normal, even slightly unathletic snail. Such a mediocre snail starting at the Russian front line on August 1, 2024, would have moved more than 31 miles (47 kilometres) between then and now.
The Russian Army could only dream of moving as fast as a (mediocre slow) snail.
Condolences to Gallsman, armaghniac and Banks of The Bann on the death of Dick Cheney.
I know his war mongering was a source of great inspiration to them.
Ah there you are numbskull, was beginning to think I had scared you away from this thread.
Was beginning to feel like the old days with you and the Burdman out of hibernation and back at it again.
Anyway, feeble attempt at trolling, do try harder.
By the way, come up with those agreements with Russia that the West and Ukraine have broken? That's a few weeks now. Anything?
And while you're there numbskull:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/zarah-sultanas-pompous-luxury-beliefs-about-ukraine/
Any comment? Warhawk is she, aye?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 04, 2025, 02:45:32 PMAnd while you're there numbskull:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/zarah-sultanas-pompous-luxury-beliefs-about-ukraine/
Any comment? Warhawk is she, aye?
The Spectactor with a smear article on the left? ;D
I can only read the first few lines as I wouldn't dare subscribe to that right wing rag but the quotes attributd to Sultana seems perfectly fair. She calls Putin a gangster dictator and NATO a war machine.
Both seem like perfectly fair and balanced comments.
The fact that you form your opinions from The Spectator is telling.
Quote from: Hand of God on November 04, 2025, 03:35:45 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 04, 2025, 02:45:32 PMAnd while you're there numbskull:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/zarah-sultanas-pompous-luxury-beliefs-about-ukraine/
Any comment? Warhawk is she, aye?
The Spectactor with a smear article on the left? ;D
I can only read the first few lines as I wouldn't dare subscribe to that right wing rag but the quotes attributd to Sultana seems perfectly fair. She calls Putin a gangster dictator and NATO a war machine.
Both seem like perfectly fair and balanced comments.
The fact that you form your opinions from The Spectator is telling.
Oh no need to stop at a few lines, have a read below:
I'm sure your wee tankie cheekie cheeks will be burning reading it. Enjoy.
Any update on the broken agreements btw?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on October 29, 2025, 01:18:11 PMExcellent article by a Ukrainian journalist. One for all tankies to read. Should be compulsory reading for president-elect Catherine Connolly.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/zarah-sultanas-pompous-luxury-beliefs-about-ukraine/
Zarah Sultana loves to pose as a champion of the working class, seeing the world through the lens of class struggle. Even, it seems, the war in Ukraine. In her latest interview, she calls Nato 'an imperialist war machine' and advocates for putting all our effort into ending the war, rather than making weapons, thereby giving money to those who profit from conflict. 'Putin is a dictator, a gangster,' she says, but 'Zelensky isn't a friend of the working class either'. She met Ukrainians and Russians in Paris, she adds, who explained this to her.
I'd like to add my own voice to this debate. I think I'd qualify, in her book, as working class. I'm from a family that lived on what is, by British standards, the breadline. My mother spends 12-hour night shifts at a paper factory that could be bombed by Russia any day, for a salary that works out at about £4,000 a year. Our upbringing is typical of those in our village. I have to inform Sultana that her class-war rhetoric would strike working-class Ukrainians as an egregious, pompous luxury belief – marinated in the fashionable politics of people who jet off to Paris to compare notes on the working class.
Sultana embodies the kind of British leftist who would do anything for the world's working class except listen to them. From the offset, she has jumped the wrong way. Russia's appetite for its former colony – in the name of recreating the 'Rusky Mir' – is a textbook example of imperialism. And yet, just before the full-scale war, she signed a statement urging Nato to halt its 'eastward expansion' and 'address Russia's security concerns'. Now, four years later, she is still echoing Russia's talking points. Sultana talks as if Zelensky, Starmer and Donald Trump haven't spent every day trying to find a way to confront neo-imperialist occupation.
And yes, Britain could 'stop the war' by doing what she wants: cutting off weapons for Ukraine and abandoning it with no way to defend itself. But it wasn't Zelesnky's choice to start this war, and he has no option but to fight it, while begging the world for missiles and jets for Ukrainians to survive. If the arms didn't come, the fighting would stop – and the subjugation would start. A subjugation that Ukraine experienced during the Nazi occupation and then under communism. One that the butchered people of Bucha experienced in 2022. Is this the remedy that Ms Sultana prescribes? That we stop fighting, take our beating and call it 'peace'? Is this her definition of working-class empowerment? When a country is faced with subjection, it doesn't matter if you're working or middle class: the Russian bullet goes through the flesh just as easily.
The truth is that when working-class Russian soldiers crossed the border to occupy Ukraine, working-class Ukrainians queued at the enlistment offices to defend their homes. Today, even more working-class Russians, lured by fat military contracts, are killing Ukrainians for cash, at the frontline and in the rear, where Russian pilots rain missiles on working-class apartment blocks. Just last week, a Russian drone hit a Kyiv nursery full of working-class toddlers.
There is no doubt that arms manufacturers profit from war, that's the reality of the modern world: they can't produce weapons for free, and Ukrainians can't defend themselves with moral platitudes. Defence needs arms, arms need a business model. Without western weapons, the mass graves in Bucha and Izium would stretch across the entire country. The working class of Ukraine do not wish to see their families slaughtered. If Sultana doesn't want a 'forever war' and truly believes in 'wages, not weapons; welfare, not warfare', as she writes, she should direct that message to Putin and demand he withdraw his troops.
Ukrainians have been incredibly lucky to have Britain by their side as a true ally in the darkest days. London has committed more than £20 billion to Ukraine since the full-scale war began, including £13 billion in military aid. According to an Ipsos poll, most Britons, 59 per cent, continue to support this today, and more than half believe that economic sanctions on Russia are necessary, even if it means higher energy and food prices. This is not an easy toll for a nation living so far from the actual conflict, and every Ukrainian I know, including myself, will forever be grateful for such a generous contribution. Without British artillery shells, drones and missiles, there would be many more dead Ukrainians, and no more independent and free Ukraine.
The strange thing is that, having lived in Ukraine for most of my life, Sultana's class-war politics just don't apply. The cleavage that defined politics in my lifetime was between those who looked to Moscow or those who saw Ukraine as part of democratic Europe. The market economy Sultana criticises has been Ukraine's lifeline: our post-Soviet battle has been rooting out corruption and replacing oligarchy with a system of civil liberties, rights and the rule of law. After a slow start, Ukraine was making good progress on this front, which Putin could not tolerate as we were providing a model of what Russia might be if it did the same. A model that maximises opportunities for the poor.
Sultana may deplore the 'capitalism' of the United Kingdom, but as I am a beneficiary of that system – since arriving at this magazine three years ago and given complete freedom to write – I can understand why this is what Ukrainians want for themselves. Stability. The rule of law. Democracy. My sense is that the British people instinctively understand this, which explains their incredible solidarity with Ukraine – seen not just with their military help, but in the Ukrainian flags which still fly around the country. In this way, the workers of the world do unite: against tyranny, imperialist repression and the ideology that hard-left people like Sultana flirt with. An ideology that only the elite can afford.
I hope Sultana keeps enjoying lecturing about peace under the safe skies protected by the Nato alliance she despises. If she truly knows how to make the Russian guns fall silent, if she knows the right way to put all that necessary effort to achieve a lasting peace, she's more than welcome to travel with me to Kyiv and explain her groundbreaking plan to the Ukrainian nation and President Zelensky. There are plenty of working-class Ukrainians who would be only too pleased to explain their hopes for their own country, their gratitude for Britain's support – and their hard-won knowledge that freedom isn't free, it needs to be fought for and defended.
WRITTEN BY
Svitlana Morenets
Svitlana Morenets is a Ukrainian journalist and a staff writer at The Spectator.
Bump
I'm sure you'd love to categorise the piece as a 'smear article' (while not having read it) but the author is working class and Ukrainian. Working class Ukrainians - Betrayed by the western tankie class like Catherine Connolly and Zarah Sultana.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 04, 2025, 04:01:27 PMI'm sure you'd love to categorise the piece as a 'smear article' (while not having read it) but the author is working class and Ukrainian. Working class Ukrainians - Betrayed by the western tankie class like Catherine Connolly and Zarah Sultana.
The fact you don't see an issue with you trying to put forward a reprehensible right wing, neo liberal war hawk editorial as somewhat credible is wild.
Do you not find it odd an editorial can be so partisan in it's defence of a nation who is committing a genocide of the native minority in an apartheid state while conversely being so partisan in it's support of Ukraine in its resistance against a Russian invasion under the guide of freedom and democracy?
Why would a working class Ukrainian think a right wing Tory warhawk editorial is a good outlet to convince working class people of her opinion being authentic?
I hope you good folk get paid for your efforts
Quote from: Hand of God on November 04, 2025, 02:32:24 PMCondolences to Gallsman, armaghniac and Banks of The Bann on the death of Dick Cheney.
I know his war mongering was a source of great inspiration to them.
Cutting stuff.
Quote from: gallsman on November 04, 2025, 07:53:33 PMQuote from: Hand of God on November 04, 2025, 02:32:24 PMCondolences to Gallsman, armaghniac and Banks of The Bann on the death of Dick Cheney.
I know his war mongering was a source of great inspiration to them.
Cutting stuff.
Half an attempt at wit.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2025, 10:10:13 PMQuote from: gallsman on November 04, 2025, 07:53:33 PMQuote from: Hand of God on November 04, 2025, 02:32:24 PMCondolences to Gallsman, armaghniac and Banks of The Bann on the death of Dick Cheney.
I know his war mongering was a source of great inspiration to them.
Cutting stuff.
Half an attempt at wit.
Would you like to help your buddy who has resorted to posting up opinion pieces from the Tory press office?
Quote from: Hand of God on November 04, 2025, 04:09:20 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 04, 2025, 04:01:27 PMI'm sure you'd love to categorise the piece as a 'smear article' (while not having read it) but the author is working class and Ukrainian. Working class Ukrainians - Betrayed by the western tankie class like Catherine Connolly and Zarah Sultana.
The fact you don't see an issue with you trying to put forward a reprehensible right wing, neo liberal war hawk editorial as somewhat credible is wild.
Do you not find it odd an editorial can be so partisan in it's defence of a nation who is committing a genocide of the native minority in an apartheid state while conversely being so partisan in it's support of Ukraine in its resistance against a Russian invasion under the guide of freedom and democracy?
Why would a working class Ukrainian think a right wing Tory warhawk editorial is a good outlet to convince working class people of her opinion being authentic?
No help needed numbSkull. I'm more than happy to cut through your bullshit, it's easy, though tiring at times.
1. It's an opinion piece, not an editorial.
2. Everything through the prism of Israel-Palestine as usual. At least you're managing to keep your overt anti-semitism in check under your latest incarnation. For the time being anyway, I'm sure the 'you know whos' are lurking at the back of your mind somewhere, ready to jump out anytime.
3. Point no 2 above results in your usual faulty logic, i.e. the Spectator's stance on Israel-Palestine invalidates any output from that publication on any other topic.
4. Point no 3 is convenient for you as it allows you to ignore what the author, a working class Ukrainian, has to say. In doing so you demonstrate the very tankie qualities she cites in her article:
'..leftist who would do anything for the world's working class except listen to them'5. She is doing well to be published in the Spectator, what would you suggest, she try to get published in the 'Morning Star' so that a bunch of braindead tankies can insult her and treat her experience with derision.
6. Your arrogance is astounding in that you think a working class Ukrainian has to convince you that her voice is
'authentic'.
7. Your response to the article proves the point she is making about British (and Irish) leftists. Since you probably didn't even read the article I'll summarise for you:
Your views on the Ukrainian conflict are an
'egregious, pompous luxury belief' to working class Ukrainians fighting for their survival in a war of attempted annihilation of their nation.
You
'would do anything for the world's working class except listen to them'In Ukraine, your pathetic
'class-war politics just don't apply.'Like Sultana, you are
'enjoying lecturing about peace under the safe skies protected by the Nato alliance she despises'8. I'll go one further, you and those like you are charlatans. I've said it before. You're not anti-war or anti-imperialist. You hate the west and the USA. That's it.
p.s. Have you managed to find any agreements with Russia that Ukraine has broken? If not, perhaps you can withdraw the claim here.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 05, 2025, 10:11:45 AMQuote from: Hand of God on November 04, 2025, 04:09:20 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 04, 2025, 04:01:27 PMI'm sure you'd love to categorise the piece as a 'smear article' (while not having read it) but the author is working class and Ukrainian. Working class Ukrainians - Betrayed by the western tankie class like Catherine Connolly and Zarah Sultana.
The fact you don't see an issue with you trying to put forward a reprehensible right wing, neo liberal war hawk editorial as somewhat credible is wild.
Do you not find it odd an editorial can be so partisan in it's defence of a nation who is committing a genocide of the native minority in an apartheid state while conversely being so partisan in it's support of Ukraine in its resistance against a Russian invasion under the guide of freedom and democracy?
Why would a working class Ukrainian think a right wing Tory warhawk editorial is a good outlet to convince working class people of her opinion being authentic?
No help needed numbSkull. I'm more than happy to cut through your bullshit, it's easy, though tiring at times.
1. It's an opinion piece, not an editorial.
2. Everything through the prism of Israel-Palestine as usual. At least you're managing to keep your overt anti-semitism in check under your latest incarnation. For the time being anyway, I'm sure the 'you know whos' are lurking at the back of your mind somewhere, ready to jump out anytime.
3. Point no 2 above results in your usual faulty logic, i.e. the Spectator's stance on Israel-Palestine invalidates any output from that publication on any other topic.
4. Point no 3 is convenient for you as it allows you to ignore what the author, a working class Ukrainian, has to say. In doing so you demonstrate the very tankie qualities she cites in her article:
'..leftist who would do anything for the world's working class except listen to them'
5. She is doing well to be published in the Spectator, what would you suggest, she try to get published in the 'Morning Star' so that a bunch of braindead tankies can insult her and treat her experience with derision.
6. Your arrogance is astounding in that you think a working class Ukrainian has to convince you that her voice is 'authentic'.
7. Your response to the article proves the point she is making about British (and Irish) leftists. Since you probably didn't even read the article I'll summarise for you:
Your views on the Ukrainian conflict are an 'egregious, pompous luxury belief' to working class Ukrainians fighting for their survival in a war of attempted annihilation of their nation.
You 'would do anything for the world's working class except listen to them'
In Ukraine, your pathetic 'class-war politics just don't apply.'
Like Sultana, you are 'enjoying lecturing about peace under the safe skies protected by the Nato alliance she despises'
8. I'll go one further, you and those like you are charlatans. I've said it before. You're not anti-war or anti-imperialist. You hate the west and the USA. That's it.
p.s. Have you managed to find any agreements with Russia that Ukraine has broken? If not, perhaps you can withdraw the claim here.
You are putting forward an article from The Spectator which attacks a left wing politician as a credible and valid piece
You seemingly subscribe to The Spectator as you were able to post up the full article.
Of course The Spectators stance on Gaza, their links to the Tories, their backing of the Iraq war shows them to be completely devoid of credibility or objectivity in geopolitical matters.
The reason they have given that "working class" Ukrainian a platform is to attack a left wing politician for daring to criticize NATO and Zelensky and for calling out the complicity of the UK and the West in the genocide of Gaza.
You should actually listen more to what people like Zara Sultana have to say thank swallowing the right wing propaganda published in The Spectator.
I suppose you were a big fan of Thatcher too?
Quote from: Hand of God on November 05, 2025, 10:30:48 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 05, 2025, 10:11:45 AMQuote from: Hand of God on November 04, 2025, 04:09:20 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 04, 2025, 04:01:27 PMI'm sure you'd love to categorise the piece as a 'smear article' (while not having read it) but the author is working class and Ukrainian. Working class Ukrainians - Betrayed by the western tankie class like Catherine Connolly and Zarah Sultana.
The fact you don't see an issue with you trying to put forward a reprehensible right wing, neo liberal war hawk editorial as somewhat credible is wild.
Do you not find it odd an editorial can be so partisan in it's defence of a nation who is committing a genocide of the native minority in an apartheid state while conversely being so partisan in it's support of Ukraine in its resistance against a Russian invasion under the guide of freedom and democracy?
Why would a working class Ukrainian think a right wing Tory warhawk editorial is a good outlet to convince working class people of her opinion being authentic?
No help needed numbSkull. I'm more than happy to cut through your bullshit, it's easy, though tiring at times.
1. It's an opinion piece, not an editorial.
2. Everything through the prism of Israel-Palestine as usual. At least you're managing to keep your overt anti-semitism in check under your latest incarnation. For the time being anyway, I'm sure the 'you know whos' are lurking at the back of your mind somewhere, ready to jump out anytime.
3. Point no 2 above results in your usual faulty logic, i.e. the Spectator's stance on Israel-Palestine invalidates any output from that publication on any other topic.
4. Point no 3 is convenient for you as it allows you to ignore what the author, a working class Ukrainian, has to say. In doing so you demonstrate the very tankie qualities she cites in her article:
'..leftist who would do anything for the world's working class except listen to them'
5. She is doing well to be published in the Spectator, what would you suggest, she try to get published in the 'Morning Star' so that a bunch of braindead tankies can insult her and treat her experience with derision.
6. Your arrogance is astounding in that you think a working class Ukrainian has to convince you that her voice is 'authentic'.
7. Your response to the article proves the point she is making about British (and Irish) leftists. Since you probably didn't even read the article I'll summarise for you:
Your views on the Ukrainian conflict are an 'egregious, pompous luxury belief' to working class Ukrainians fighting for their survival in a war of attempted annihilation of their nation.
You 'would do anything for the world's working class except listen to them'
In Ukraine, your pathetic 'class-war politics just don't apply.'
Like Sultana, you are 'enjoying lecturing about peace under the safe skies protected by the Nato alliance she despises'
8. I'll go one further, you and those like you are charlatans. I've said it before. You're not anti-war or anti-imperialist. You hate the west and the USA. That's it.
p.s. Have you managed to find any agreements with Russia that Ukraine has broken? If not, perhaps you can withdraw the claim here.
You are putting forward an article from The Spectator which attacks a left wing politician as a credible and valid piece
You seemingly subscribe to The Spectator as you were able to post up the full article.
Of course The Spectators stance on Gaza, their links to the Tories, their backing of the Iraq war shows them to be completely devoid of credibility or objectivity in geopolitical matters.
The reason they have given that "working class" Ukrainian a platform is to attack a left wing politician for daring to criticize NATO and Zelensky and for calling out the complicity of the UK and the West in the genocide of Gaza.
You should actually listen more to what people like Zara Sultana have to say thank swallowing the right wing propaganda published in The Spectator.
I suppose you were a big fan of Thatcher too?
1. Not a subscriber, don't even read the Spectator. Followed a link from X.
2. Not a fan of Thatcher.
3. You don't like the Spectator, got it. Care to address the opinions based in the article? You're very happy to address the Spectator itself, but not the article. Convenient for you.
4. I have listened to Zarah Sultana's opinions on Ukraine and NATO. Like the author of the piece, I think Sultana is full of shit.
5. Do you have the details of any agreements with Russia that Ukraine has broken?
You don't subscribe to The Spectator or read it yet you are putting forward articles from it to support your viewpoints. A full article you linked and posted from behind a paywall. Hmmmm you must be telling some porkies here.
I find Sultana to be a politician of immense courage and integrity. You are smearing her just like you did Catherine Connolly and you are using a hit piece from a disgraced, islamaphobic right wing editorial to do so - for the sole reasons you do not like Western war mongering being called out.
You clearly value the views and opinions offered by Douglas Murray and co while you engage in smear on Catherine Connolly and Zara Sultana. That's why you have no credibility here, anything to the left of your hard right wing position needs smearing.
Quote from: Hand of God on November 05, 2025, 12:33:10 PMYou don't subscribe to The Spectator or read it yet you are putting forward articles from it to support your viewpoints. A full article you linked and posted from behind a paywall. Hmmmm you must be telling some porkies here.
I find Sultana to be a politician of immense courage and integrity. You are smearing her just like you did Catherine Connolly and you are using a hit piece from a disgraced, islamaphobic right wing editorial to do so - for the sole reasons you do not like Western war mongering being called out.
You clearly value the views and opinions offered by Douglas Murray and co while you engage in smear on Catherine Connolly and Zara Sultana. That's why you have no credibility here, anything to the left of your hard right wing position needs smearing.
1. I'm not a subscriber to the Spectator. I can read that full article by going onto their website which I followed from X.
2. It wouldn't make a difference to the substance of the article, even if I was. It's mere deflection on your part.
3. You refuse to comment because the article shames you and those like you, for your
egregious, pompous luxury tankie belief system.
4. Valid criticism of a politician is not a hit piece.
5. Valid criticism of a politician is not a smear.
6. Why you mention Douglas Murray beyond me, the "how do ya does" whispering in your head again?
7. Any update on the agreements Ukraine has broken with Russia?
Of course the source makes an impact on article. You can't credibly pick out points of views from Mein Kampf and go I don't agree with his some of his views but this is a good point.
You seem to be effectively aligned with The Spectator on most sources. That article is behind a paywall so I don't know how you have access to it. You must subscribe to her the unhinged views of Douglas Murray and co.
The reason the article is nonsense is that it's from a hard right neo-liberal editorial which has held some ghastly views right from its origins to its present day stances. It has voiced some reprehensible views, it has incited hatred against Muslims. It has supported genocide and unjust wars so how could anyone who wants to be taken with credibility cite a source so disgraced as The Spectator.
The article served one purpose, a hit piece against Zara Sultana to try and misrepresent and smear her. Much like you have done to Catherine Connolly the past few months.
You are a right wing neo liberal. You don't care about freedom and democracy in Ukraine, you only care about Western supremacism and control.
Quote from: Hand of God on November 05, 2025, 01:50:56 PMOf course the source makes an impact on article. You can't credibly pick out points of views from Mein Kampf and go I don't agree with his some of his views but this is a good point.
You seem to be effectively aligned with The Spectator on most sources. That article is behind a paywall so I don't know how you have access to it. You must subscribe to her the unhinged views of Douglas Murray and co.
The reason the article is nonsense is that it's from a hard right neo-liberal editorial which has held some ghastly views right from its origins to its present day stances. It has voiced some reprehensible views, it has incited hatred against Muslims. It has supported genocide and unjust wars so how could anyone who wants to be taken with credibility cite a source so disgraced as The Spectator.
The article served one purpose, a hit piece against Zara Sultana to try and misrepresent and smear her. Much like you have done to Catherine Connolly the past few months.
You are a right wing neo liberal. You don't care about freedom and democracy in Ukraine, you only care about Western supremacism and control.
The source is a Ukrainian working class journalist called Svitlana Morenets.
Appearing in the Spectator does not make the content of an article 'nonsense', no matter how hard you may wish it so.
More faulty logic from you. In fact it's beyond faulty logic, it's idiotic.
According to your idiocy, if Svitlana Morenets had published the article on her private substack it would be worthy of consideration, but if the same article was published in the Spectator, the content is magically transformed and becomes 'nonsense'.
Idiotic.
As for me being a right-wing neo-liberal. Sorry to disappoint numbSkull. Unlike you I'll condemn aggression and genocide from every quarter, be it Russia or Israel/USA. I don't make excuses, unlike tankies. Like yourself, like Zarah Sultana, like Catherine Connolly.
Almost forgot, any update on the agreements that Ukraine has broken with Russia?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 05, 2025, 02:51:51 PMQuote from: Hand of God on November 05, 2025, 01:50:56 PMOf course the source makes an impact on article. You can't credibly pick out points of views from Mein Kampf and go I don't agree with his some of his views but this is a good point.
You seem to be effectively aligned with The Spectator on most sources. That article is behind a paywall so I don't know how you have access to it. You must subscribe to her the unhinged views of Douglas Murray and co.
The reason the article is nonsense is that it's from a hard right neo-liberal editorial which has held some ghastly views right from its origins to its present day stances. It has voiced some reprehensible views, it has incited hatred against Muslims. It has supported genocide and unjust wars so how could anyone who wants to be taken with credibility cite a source so disgraced as The Spectator.
The article served one purpose, a hit piece against Zara Sultana to try and misrepresent and smear her. Much like you have done to Catherine Connolly the past few months.
You are a right wing neo liberal. You don't care about freedom and democracy in Ukraine, you only care about Western supremacism and control.
The source is a Ukrainian working class journalist called Svitlana Morenets.
Appearing in the Spectator does not make the content of an article 'nonsense', no matter how hard you may wish it so.
More faulty logic from you. In fact it's beyond faulty logic, it's idiotic.
According to your idiocy, if Svitlana Morenets had published the article on her private substack it would be worthy of consideration, but if the same article was published in the Spectator, the content is magically transformed and becomes 'nonsense'.
Idiotic.
As for me being a right-wing neo-liberal. Sorry to disappoint numbSkull. Unlike you I'll condemn aggression and genocide from every quarter, be it Russia or Israel/USA. I don't make excuses, unlike tankies. Like yourself, like Zarah Sultana, like Catherine Connolly.
Almost forgot, any update on the agreements that Ukraine has broken with Russia?
There you have it. A right wing rag with an utterly deplorable history and present editorial line. A newspaper that has justified and whitewashed a genocide sought out s Ukrainian "working class" person to right a hit piece on a left wing British politician because she was critical of NATO and Zelensky.
Somehow in your crazy world view that is credible.
As I said from the outset. You are obsessed with Ukraine but don't care about an actual genocide in Gaza. Weird.
Quote from: Hand of God on November 05, 2025, 03:00:28 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 05, 2025, 02:51:51 PMQuote from: Hand of God on November 05, 2025, 01:50:56 PMOf course the source makes an impact on article. You can't credibly pick out points of views from Mein Kampf and go I don't agree with his some of his views but this is a good point.
You seem to be effectively aligned with The Spectator on most sources. That article is behind a paywall so I don't know how you have access to it. You must subscribe to her the unhinged views of Douglas Murray and co.
The reason the article is nonsense is that it's from a hard right neo-liberal editorial which has held some ghastly views right from its origins to its present day stances. It has voiced some reprehensible views, it has incited hatred against Muslims. It has supported genocide and unjust wars so how could anyone who wants to be taken with credibility cite a source so disgraced as The Spectator.
The article served one purpose, a hit piece against Zara Sultana to try and misrepresent and smear her. Much like you have done to Catherine Connolly the past few months.
You are a right wing neo liberal. You don't care about freedom and democracy in Ukraine, you only care about Western supremacism and control.
The source is a Ukrainian working class journalist called Svitlana Morenets.
Appearing in the Spectator does not make the content of an article 'nonsense', no matter how hard you may wish it so.
More faulty logic from you. In fact it's beyond faulty logic, it's idiotic.
According to your idiocy, if Svitlana Morenets had published the article on her private substack it would be worthy of consideration, but if the same article was published in the Spectator, the content is magically transformed and becomes 'nonsense'.
Idiotic.
As for me being a right-wing neo-liberal. Sorry to disappoint numbSkull. Unlike you I'll condemn aggression and genocide from every quarter, be it Russia or Israel/USA. I don't make excuses, unlike tankies. Like yourself, like Zarah Sultana, like Catherine Connolly.
Almost forgot, any update on the agreements that Ukraine has broken with Russia?
There you have it. A right wing rag with an utterly deplorable history and present editorial line. A newspaper that has justified and whitewashed a genocide sought out s Ukrainian "working class" person to right a hit piece on a left wing British politician because she was critical of NATO and Zelensky.
Somehow in your crazy world view that is credible.
As I said from the outset. You are obsessed with Ukraine but don't care about an actual genocide in Gaza. Weird.
The Ukrainian working class journalist wrote an article criticising Zarah Sultana, because like you, Sultana has her head full of shit when it come to Ukraine.
In your arrogance you now deny that she is 'working class' despite her description of her background in Ukraine. How very typical of the champagne socialists of the west.
I note you are now engaging in genocide denial with regard to Ukraine. Not surprising. Nothing new there, since as numbSkull you briefly flirted with holocaust denial (the truth will come out some day, wasn't it?) before shitting it when challenged on your remarks.
As for the genocide in Gaza, I have condemned it. And I don't make excuses for the murderers like you do.
p.s. Any updates on the agreements Ukraine has broken with Russia?
Nobel peace prize laureate Oleksandra Matviichuk (@avalaina) on Russian war crimes against civilians. Worth reading.
"I watched the video where a Russian drone attacked a man, a woman, and their dog in the Kharkiv region. The Russians saw that they were civilians. The people were walking along the road with a white flag. Unfortunately, all of them died. The dog was still convulsing for a few seconds.
It's worth repeating once again. The main target of the Russians in this war is civilians. War crimes are a deliberate policy of the Russians. This is how they fight. In Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, Mali, Libya, Ukraine. Pain is their tool of subjugation. The Russians deliberately inflict pain on the civilian population to break people's resistance and occupy the country.
In 2014, we asked survivors from captivity what had caused their arrest. Yes, there were targeted groups they hunted deliberately. But many people who ended up in the basements couldn't name a single reason. I'll say more: you can be an ardent supporter of Russia, but if you're a civilian on territory captured by Russia, your life means nothing.
Our mobile teams that arrived in the Kyiv region right after liberation heard people speak about the Russians with horror. They said they simply couldn't believe the Russians were capazes of such things. And this was after the brutal torture-murders of Volodymyr Rybak in Horlivka and Reshat Ametov in Simferopol. After the cynical shooting of the green corridor near Ilovaisk.
It's time to believe your own eyes. Sadly, there are still people who for some reason think that if they're "apolitical," nothing will happen to them. The Russians don't care. When they shelled residential buildings in Mariupol with tanks, they weren't particularly interested in the political views of the people who lived there.
Yes, you can deny reality for a while. But in war, the price of such denial can be very high."
You're quoting The Spectator ffs. You don't even acknowledge that. A right wing war hawk editorial that has a disgusting history of islamaphobia and has a disgusting history of whitewashing and supporting genocide.
You have lost all credibility here.
My first engagement with you was because you took issue with a post I made on the Irish President thread. I read a few posts from you and others which sought to completely misrepresent and smear the Irish President due to the fact she is quite rightly critical of Western foreign policy. You smeared her with utterly baseless allegations because you disagree with her perfectly valid points.
You are now putting forward articles for a disgraced right wing editorial that looks to further smear a left wing politician of the utmost integrity because she is also critical of the Wests neo liberal war hawk policy.
Further to that I have exposed you of being utterly obsessed with Ukraine but completely ambivalent to a genocide in Gaza. You have taken to putting forward the views of genocide deniers as credible, as we have seen with your referencing of The Spectator as credible. You have relentlessly and baselessly smeared left wing politicians who have been a great advocate for Palestine and have also been consistent with their condemnation and objection to Putin.
You are not sincere. How on earth could any decent human being think that what is happening in Ukraine is worse than the Genocide in Gaza.. you're like Piers Morgan - just a right wing troll who believes in nothing.
I will leave you to this thread now and your fascist rantings.
https://www.ft.com/content/b6d493dc-bd36-4140-bff8-c1bcdf992364
Russia has started using jet-powered glide bombs to hit targets far beyond the frontline, an upgrade to Moscow's arsenal that poses further strains on Ukraine's stretched air defences. Retrofitted Soviet-era bombs known as KABs have hit targets in the southern Ukrainian regions of Odesa and Mykolayiv, as well as the eastern region of Poltava, for the first time in October. Up until then, the guided projectiles lobbed from Russian Su-34 jets had a range of up to 80km and were used mainly in the proximity of the frontline. But some of these glide bombs are now fitted with a jet engine — an upgrade that increases their range up to 200km, according to Vadym Skibitsky, the deputy head of Ukraine's GUR military intelligence service.
The old VE1. Russia gone real retro!
Quote from: Hand of God on November 05, 2025, 03:59:54 PMYou're quoting The Spectator ffs. You don't even acknowledge that. A right wing war hawk editorial that has a disgusting history of islamaphobia and has a disgusting history of whitewashing and supporting genocide.
You have lost all credibility here.
My first engagement with you was because you took issue with a post I made on the Irish President thread. I read a few posts from you and others which sought to completely misrepresent and smear the Irish President due to the fact she is quite rightly critical of Western foreign policy. You smeared her with utterly baseless allegations because you disagree with her perfectly valid points.
You are now putting forward articles for a disgraced right wing editorial that looks to further smear a left wing politician of the utmost integrity because she is also critical of the Wests neo liberal war hawk policy.
Further to that I have exposed you of being utterly obsessed with Ukraine but completely ambivalent to a genocide in Gaza. You have taken to putting forward the views of genocide deniers as credible, as we have seen with your referencing of The Spectator as credible. You have relentlessly and baselessly smeared left wing politicians who have been a great advocate for Palestine and have also been consistent with their condemnation and objection to Putin.
You are not sincere. How on earth could any decent human being think that what is happening in Ukraine is worse than the Genocide in Gaza.. you're like Piers Morgan - just a right wing troll who believes in nothing.
I will leave you to this thread now and your fascist rantings.
1. You haven't been able to rebut a single thing in the article by the Ukrainian journalist -> you resort instead to cry about the Spectator. Deflection, pure and simple.
2. You haven't been able to rebut any of the valid criticism I made about president elect CC -> you resort instead to baseless claims about 'smears'.
3. CC's points aren't valid and I outlined why - you and others were unable to rebut what I said - > you resort then to just repeat your baseless claims about 'smears'.
4. You make various claims and then when challenged you are unable to rebut -> You are unable to provide a single example of an agreement Ukraine has broken with Russia. (And ignore that Russia has broken EVERY agreement with Ukraine.
5.I am not ambivalent to the genocide in Gaza -> I have condemned it. I don't need to post about it. There are no braindead genocide deniers and apologists mucking up the Gaza thread.
6. I have never once stated that what is happening in Ukraine is worse than Gaza -> more made up shite from you.
7. Your first engagement with me..., aye no worries numbSkull.
8. Run along then. If you don't to engage with me don't make piss poor attempts at trolling on this thread.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/06/russia-sends-disabled-soldiers-slaughter-ukraine-war-army/
A wounded man lies in a muddy ditch, stripped of his uniform and too weak to stand. His ribs protrude beneath the chain of his dog tags, the only trace of the soldier he once was. He murmurs incoherently, clearly too mentally incapacitated to communicate or move.
The man in the video is one of several mentally disabled men reportedly sent to the front line by Russia, The Telegraph has been told.
Ukrainian officials say it is a strategy that reflects Moscow's growing reliance on vulnerable recruits and its willingness to deploy an almost limitless supply of manpower to make gains on the front lines, regardless of the human cost.
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2025, 01:34:09 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/06/russia-sends-disabled-soldiers-slaughter-ukraine-war-army/
A wounded man lies in a muddy ditch, stripped of his uniform and too weak to stand. His ribs protrude beneath the chain of his dog tags, the only trace of the soldier he once was. He murmurs incoherently, clearly too mentally incapacitated to communicate or move.
The man in the video is one of several mentally disabled men reportedly sent to the front line by Russia, The Telegraph has been told.
Ukrainian officials say it is a strategy that reflects Moscow's growing reliance on vulnerable recruits and its willingness to deploy an almost limitless supply of manpower to make gains on the front lines, regardless of the human cost.
Yes, as if Ukraine only recruits young, fit, and enthusiastic soldiers. Such tripe. Sadly war is a nasty business, and neither side can cover itself in glory. The sooner it's over the better, but those who think that can happen without major territorial concessions from Ukraine are living in loo-lah land.
Quote from: Genocide Organ on November 06, 2025, 01:55:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 06, 2025, 01:34:09 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/06/russia-sends-disabled-soldiers-slaughter-ukraine-war-army/
A wounded man lies in a muddy ditch, stripped of his uniform and too weak to stand. His ribs protrude beneath the chain of his dog tags, the only trace of the soldier he once was. He murmurs incoherently, clearly too mentally incapacitated to communicate or move.
The man in the video is one of several mentally disabled men reportedly sent to the front line by Russia, The Telegraph has been told.
Ukrainian officials say it is a strategy that reflects Moscow's growing reliance on vulnerable recruits and its willingness to deploy an almost limitless supply of manpower to make gains on the front lines, regardless of the human cost.
Yes, as if Ukraine only recruits young, fit, and enthusiastic soldiers. Such tripe. Sadly war is a nasty business, and neither side can cover itself in glory. The sooner it's over the better, but those who think that can happen without major territorial concessions from Ukraine are living in loo-lah land.
Oh look, it's Burdizzo back to 'both sides' the Russian invasion of Ukraine. An insidious form of pro-Russian propaganda in itself. Odd how some posters are really triggered by criticism of Russia.
By all means Burdy, provide the link to the severely mentally disabled Ukrainian soldiers.
As for territorial concessions, Ukraine won't give up its people to Russification (genocide) or recognise Russian sovereignty over its land.
How odd to hear an Irishman call such a thing 'loo-lah land'. Absolute hypocrite.
Here theres 1 country defending themselves and another invading it. What if the UK was like Russia. They invade Ireland and have us wrapped up by lunchtime, saying we all give up based on chatter on here, and rely on peace terms after.
The both siders would have a field day claiming that EU an member on Britain's border, crooked politicians like Michael Lowry and far right nazis like Justin Barrett made it necessary for Britain to invade.
Quote from: Dag Dog on November 06, 2025, 07:14:49 PMThe both siders would have a field day claiming that EU an member on Britain's border, crooked politicians like Michael Lowry and far right nazis like Justin Barrett made it necessary for Britain to invade.
Don't forget all the ethnic English speakers that need saving from persecution.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 06, 2025, 11:04:51 AMQuote from: Hand of God on November 05, 2025, 03:59:54 PMYou're quoting The Spectator ffs. You don't even acknowledge that. A right wing war hawk editorial that has a disgusting history of islamaphobia and has a disgusting history of whitewashing and supporting genocide.
You have lost all credibility here.
My first engagement with you was because you took issue with a post I made on the Irish President thread. I read a few posts from you and others which sought to completely misrepresent and smear the Irish President due to the fact she is quite rightly critical of Western foreign policy. You smeared her with utterly baseless allegations because you disagree with her perfectly valid points.
You are now putting forward articles for a disgraced right wing editorial that looks to further smear a left wing politician of the utmost integrity because she is also critical of the Wests neo liberal war hawk policy.
Further to that I have exposed you of being utterly obsessed with Ukraine but completely ambivalent to a genocide in Gaza. You have taken to putting forward the views of genocide deniers as credible, as we have seen with your referencing of The Spectator as credible. You have relentlessly and baselessly smeared left wing politicians who have been a great advocate for Palestine and have also been consistent with their condemnation and objection to Putin.
You are not sincere. How on earth could any decent human being think that what is happening in Ukraine is worse than the Genocide in Gaza.. you're like Piers Morgan - just a right wing troll who believes in nothing.
I will leave you to this thread now and your fascist rantings.
1. You haven't been able to rebut a single thing in the article by the Ukrainian journalist -> you resort instead to cry about the Spectator. Deflection, pure and simple.
2. You haven't been able to rebut any of the valid criticism I made about president elect CC -> you resort instead to baseless claims about 'smears'.
3. CC's points aren't valid and I outlined why - you and others were unable to rebut what I said - > you resort then to just repeat your baseless claims about 'smears'.
4. You make various claims and then when challenged you are unable to rebut -> You are unable to provide a single example of an agreement Ukraine has broken with Russia. (And ignore that Russia has broken EVERY agreement with Ukraine.
5.I am not ambivalent to the genocide in Gaza -> I have condemned it. I don't need to post about it. There are no braindead genocide deniers and apologists mucking up the Gaza thread.
6. I have never once stated that what is happening in Ukraine is worse than Gaza -> more made up shite from you.
7. Your first engagement with me..., aye no worries numbSkull.
8. Run along then. If you don't to engage with me don't make piss poor attempts at trolling on this thread.
Darth Putin
The "pro Hamas tankie 2.0". Says you have to let a nuclear power take over territory and remove the inhabitants to prevent nuclear war. Gets very angry, overloads & then reboots as the "what about tankie" when told about the irony of this.
Quote from: Main Street on November 06, 2025, 11:29:13 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 06, 2025, 11:04:51 AMQuote from: Hand of God on November 05, 2025, 03:59:54 PMYou're quoting The Spectator ffs. You don't even acknowledge that. A right wing war hawk editorial that has a disgusting history of islamaphobia and has a disgusting history of whitewashing and supporting genocide.
You have lost all credibility here.
My first engagement with you was because you took issue with a post I made on the Irish President thread. I read a few posts from you and others which sought to completely misrepresent and smear the Irish President due to the fact she is quite rightly critical of Western foreign policy. You smeared her with utterly baseless allegations because you disagree with her perfectly valid points.
You are now putting forward articles for a disgraced right wing editorial that looks to further smear a left wing politician of the utmost integrity because she is also critical of the Wests neo liberal war hawk policy.
Further to that I have exposed you of being utterly obsessed with Ukraine but completely ambivalent to a genocide in Gaza. You have taken to putting forward the views of genocide deniers as credible, as we have seen with your referencing of The Spectator as credible. You have relentlessly and baselessly smeared left wing politicians who have been a great advocate for Palestine and have also been consistent with their condemnation and objection to Putin.
You are not sincere. How on earth could any decent human being think that what is happening in Ukraine is worse than the Genocide in Gaza.. you're like Piers Morgan - just a right wing troll who believes in nothing.
I will leave you to this thread now and your fascist rantings.
1. You haven't been able to rebut a single thing in the article by the Ukrainian journalist -> you resort instead to cry about the Spectator. Deflection, pure and simple.
2. You haven't been able to rebut any of the valid criticism I made about president elect CC -> you resort instead to baseless claims about 'smears'.
3. CC's points aren't valid and I outlined why - you and others were unable to rebut what I said - > you resort then to just repeat your baseless claims about 'smears'.
4. You make various claims and then when challenged you are unable to rebut -> You are unable to provide a single example of an agreement Ukraine has broken with Russia. (And ignore that Russia has broken EVERY agreement with Ukraine.
5.I am not ambivalent to the genocide in Gaza -> I have condemned it. I don't need to post about it. There are no braindead genocide deniers and apologists mucking up the Gaza thread.
6. I have never once stated that what is happening in Ukraine is worse than Gaza -> more made up shite from you.
7. Your first engagement with me..., aye no worries numbSkull.
8. Run along then. If you don't to engage with me don't make piss poor attempts at trolling on this thread.
Darth Putin
The "pro Hamas tankie 2.0". Says you have to let a nuclear power take over territory and remove the inhabitants to prevent nuclear war. Gets very angry, overloads & then reboots as the "what about tankie" when told about the irony of this.
does darth Putin have a label for "pro Israeli Ukrainians"?
There are Zionist Jews in Ukraine.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 07, 2025, 09:20:36 AMQuote from: Main Street on November 06, 2025, 11:29:13 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 06, 2025, 11:04:51 AMQuote from: Hand of God on November 05, 2025, 03:59:54 PMYou're quoting The Spectator ffs. You don't even acknowledge that. A right wing war hawk editorial that has a disgusting history of islamaphobia and has a disgusting history of whitewashing and supporting genocide.
You have lost all credibility here.
My first engagement with you was because you took issue with a post I made on the Irish President thread. I read a few posts from you and others which sought to completely misrepresent and smear the Irish President due to the fact she is quite rightly critical of Western foreign policy. You smeared her with utterly baseless allegations because you disagree with her perfectly valid points.
You are now putting forward articles for a disgraced right wing editorial that looks to further smear a left wing politician of the utmost integrity because she is also critical of the Wests neo liberal war hawk policy.
Further to that I have exposed you of being utterly obsessed with Ukraine but completely ambivalent to a genocide in Gaza. You have taken to putting forward the views of genocide deniers as credible, as we have seen with your referencing of The Spectator as credible. You have relentlessly and baselessly smeared left wing politicians who have been a great advocate for Palestine and have also been consistent with their condemnation and objection to Putin.
You are not sincere. How on earth could any decent human being think that what is happening in Ukraine is worse than the Genocide in Gaza.. you're like Piers Morgan - just a right wing troll who believes in nothing.
I will leave you to this thread now and your fascist rantings.
1. You haven't been able to rebut a single thing in the article by the Ukrainian journalist -> you resort instead to cry about the Spectator. Deflection, pure and simple.
2. You haven't been able to rebut any of the valid criticism I made about president elect CC -> you resort instead to baseless claims about 'smears'.
3. CC's points aren't valid and I outlined why - you and others were unable to rebut what I said - > you resort then to just repeat your baseless claims about 'smears'.
4. You make various claims and then when challenged you are unable to rebut -> You are unable to provide a single example of an agreement Ukraine has broken with Russia. (And ignore that Russia has broken EVERY agreement with Ukraine.
5.I am not ambivalent to the genocide in Gaza -> I have condemned it. I don't need to post about it. There are no braindead genocide deniers and apologists mucking up the Gaza thread.
6. I have never once stated that what is happening in Ukraine is worse than Gaza -> more made up shite from you.
7. Your first engagement with me..., aye no worries numbSkull.
8. Run along then. If you don't to engage with me don't make piss poor attempts at trolling on this thread.
Darth Putin
The "pro Hamas tankie 2.0". Says you have to let a nuclear power take over territory and remove the inhabitants to prevent nuclear war. Gets very angry, overloads & then reboots as the "what about tankie" when told about the irony of this.
does darth Putin have a label for "pro Israeli Ukrainians"?
I've had a look at his account on X for you, I don't think he does. I also checked to see if he had a label for Pro-Russian Palestinians. Doesn't seem to have that either.
He seems to reserve his ire for braindead westerners, rather than labelling the victims of aggression in either conflict.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/10/the-tiny-rocket-that-will-protect-europe-from-putin/
Held in the hands of the chief executive of Frankenburg Technologies, the "Mark 1" looks like a scale model of a rocket.
At just 65cm from top to tail, the missile is roughly the size of a baguette and smaller than the average human arm.
As he speaks, Kusti Salm slaps the full-size foam replica into his palm and waves it through the air for emphasis.
But the scope of the project he outlines from a glass-walled office overlooking the airport in Estonia's capital, Tallinn, is monumental.
"We are not apologetic about the fact we manufacture weapons," says Mr Salm, the former chief civil servant in Estonia's defence ministry.
"We are not afraid to say we are manufacturing them to take down Russian long-range drones.
"And we are not all apologetic about the fact that this will be the most-needed capability in the Western world in the next five to 10 years.
The missiles in Western defence arsenals are typically "exquisite": rare, expensive and capable to the nth degree. By contrast, the tiny Mark 1 aims to just be "good enough".
It can fly just 2km (1.2 miles) and would struggle to function in the heat of the desert or chill of the Arctic Circle.
A balance has been struck between the pursuit of cheap parts and overall accuracy, which the company hopes to increase to 90 per cent – currently, it is around 56 per cent.
But driving the capabilities down has helped make the Mark 1 into "affordable mass", says Mr Salm. Factories have been set up in two Nato nations, with the aim of producing hundreds of missiles per day.
Although he does not give a price for the weapon, he says it comes in at roughly a tenth of existing rocket air defence systems (a Stinger missile costs around £400,000). For Western nations, it also presents a compelling use case.
In Ukraine, teams of pilots launch "interceptor" drones to take down Russia's barrages. These are cheap (around £2,500 each), but the success depends in large part on the skill of the pilot.
While Kyiv has thousands of trained experts, the West has startlingly few – certainly not enough to protect 2,100 critical infrastructure sites along Nato's eastern border around the clock.
With the Mark 1 guided to its target by AI, its launchers can, to an extent, be left to their own devices.
The Frankenburg team has experimented with "the shape, the positioning of the wings, and the centre of gravity, centre of pressure, you know, all these things" in order to maximise accuracy, Mr Salm says.
In order to solve the challenge of rocket science on a tight budget, Frankenburg hired some of the biggest brains in the field.
The chief engineer is Andreas Bappert, who designed the highly sought-after Iris-T air defence system, now in use across Nato and in Ukraine.
It plucked the chief engineer working on the Spear III missile at MBDA UK, a lynchpin project for UK defence that has been hit by delays. And "Latvian geniuses" have joined the team, says Mr Salm.
They are doing things "that you cannot learn over a weekend from YouTube videos, as you can with drones", he adds. "There are no Rocket Science for Dummies books that you can order from Amazon."
Fabian Hoffmann, a missile technology expert, says: "There are quite a lot of experts who can build warheads, or sensors or engines. But there are not that many people who can integrate all these sub-systems into a functioning, workable missile – probably a few dozen."
https://www.ft.com/content/ebdf1a09-6aeb-4176-ac63-9668e5cc3362
Russian forces managed to secure positions deep within the frontline city, and have used a relentless barrage of drone strikes over a narrowing Ukrainian access corridor to prevent Kyiv's troops from resupplying. With Russian troops roaming through most of Pokrovsk, the satellite town of Myrnohrad is "under threat of operational encirclement", Ukrainian war monitoring group DeepState wrote on Saturday. The military's failure to prevent creeping Russian infiltration into the city has highlighted Kyiv's manpower imbalance with Russia, which has benefited from a far larger population to draw on and has been able to replenish its frontline forces with volunteers attracted by major financial incentives, despite heavy losses.
Volodymyr Zelensky to visit Ireland next month
A major security plan will be put in place for the two-day visit with Zelensky set to arrive on December 2
Robin Schiller
Today at 15:00
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky is set for a two-day visit to Ireland next month, the Irish Independent can reveal.
High-level talks have been held this week with the Government now planning for Mr Zelensky to arrive in Dublin on December 2 and meet with senior officials as part of his travel itinerary, before he departs the following day on December 3.
A major security plan will also be put in place with gardaí expected to declare the visit an 'extraordinary event' to ensure there are sufficient personnel available for the policing operation.
An extraordinary event would mean that all annual leave and rest days for gardaí would be cancelled, aside from in exceptional circumstances, in selected garda regions.
This is expected to be put in place during the duration of Mr Zelensky's two-day visit, and potentially a day in advance on December 1.
It would include the Dublin Metropolitan Region (DMR), but could also extend to other divisions outside of the capital, to augment garda numbers and ensure there are both sufficient personnel available to police the foreign dignitaries visit, and that day-to-day policing isn't impacted.
The various garda representative groups have been put on notice about this, although an extraordinary event has not yet been formally declared. This can be done up to 14 days before it takes place.
The Ukrainian president is set to meet with senior Government officials during his planned two-day visit, including Taoiseach Micheál Martin as well as Tánaiste and Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Harris.
It has not been confirmed if Mr Zelensky will also meet with President Catherine Connolly, who was inaugurated this week, although one senior source said it "would be standard" for a high-profile dignitary to meet with the President at Áras an Uachtaráin during a visit to Dublin.
It has also been mooted by Government TDs that the Ukrainian president could potentially address the Dáil during his time here.
The Taoiseach formally extended an invite to Mr Zelensky to visit Ireland over two months ago.
Mr Martin said he spoke with the Ukrainian president by phone on September 1, in which he reaffirmed Ireland's support to the war-torn country and their commitment to a just and lasting peace.
He said Mr Zelensky was "very thankful to the people of Ireland for our sustained support for the people of Ukraine".
The Taoiseach also said that they discussed how any peace deal to end the three-year war must be "sustainable, comprehensive and durable", and that this can only be achieved with "significant security guarantees underpinning any ceasefire and ultimately peace".
Mr Zelensky also met the Taoiseach during a brief stopover at Shannon Airport in March while his airplane refuelled on his journey to meet US president Donald Trump.
Mr Zelensky also addressed the Dáil chamber via video link in April 2022, the first leader to do so while at war, following the Russian invasion of Ukraine that February.
At that time, he requested Ireland play a leadership role in strengthening EU sanctions against Russia.
His visit next month however will be his first visit in person to the capital.
An Garda Síochána declared an extraordinary event in September 2024, for the arrival of UK prime minister Keir Starmer which coincided with the UEFA Nations League match between Ireland and England.
The first test for Catherine Connolly. Will see show him courtesy and decency, or will she allow her pro-Kremlin side reveal itself.
Quote from: Dag Dog on November 12, 2025, 03:08:56 PMThe first test for Catherine Connolly. Will see show him courtesy and decency, or will she allow her pro-Kremlin side reveal itself.
Obviously.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2025, 03:26:19 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on November 12, 2025, 03:08:56 PMThe first test for Catherine Connolly. Will see show him courtesy and decency, or will she allow her pro-Kremlin side reveal itself.
Obviously.
Hopefully
26 murdered yesterday in Ternopil. Don't let anyone tell you that any part of Ukraine is safe.
Many children among the dead..
https://x.com/Lyla_lilas/status/1991310696362000701?s=20
Could and should have been over ages ago, but instead of trying to stop it Europe has been keen to keep it going for some reason. Could it be it's the pretext for the European army they've always wanted?
Quote from: Genocide Organ on November 20, 2025, 02:15:56 PMCould and should have been over ages ago, but instead of trying to stop it Europe has been keen to keep it going for some reason. Could it be it's the pretext for the European army they've always wanted?
Aye no bother Burjizzo, everyone's fault except those actually doing the murdering. Shameful Russian apologists never change their tune.
In what way have Europe been keeping it going exactly? Let me guess, helping Ukraine defend itself is prolonging the war? That old chestnut?
Quote from: Genocide Organ on November 20, 2025, 02:15:56 PMCould and should have been over ages ago, but instead of trying to stop it Europe has been keen to keep it going for some reason. Could it be it's the pretext for the European army they've always wanted?
Can your local TD get you bumped up the waiting list for a brain transplant?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 20, 2025, 01:52:24 PM26 murdered yesterday in Ternopil. Don't let anyone tell you that any part of Ukraine is safe.
Many children among the dead..
https://x.com/Lyla_lilas/status/1991310696362000701?s=20
Sounds like awful stuff.
https://www.ft.com/content/31cb08a4-54b1-40a2-a91d-99fe836e3498
It is hard to conceive a better way of destroying trust in government than the vast corruption scandal unfolding in Ukraine. Specialist anti-graft bodies last week unveiled a trove of eye-popping evidence to allege that senior officials and members of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's inner circle were taking kickbacks totalling $100mn on contracts with Ukraine's nuclear power operator Energoatom. Some of the payments were for works to protect electricity facilities from Russian drone and missile attacks. For Ukrainians braced for another winter without heat or light, it is enough to make the blood boil. For Ukrainian soldiers risking death at the front, it screams betrayal. Zelenskyy responded to last week's revelations by demanding the resignation of Ukraine's energy and justice ministers (the latter previously held the energy brief). He also ordered sanctions against the alleged mastermind of the embezzlement scheme, Timur Mindich, a friend and former business partner, who earlier fled the country hours before anti-corruption investigators raided his home. Zelenskyy's actions were not enough to forestall a public and political backlash that has engulfed him and his government. That is because Ukrainians can smell a cover-up.
Hopefully serious jail time coming up for all concerned.
What about an extended trip to the front?
France's Armed Forces Minister Catherine Vautrin backed top military officer General Fabien Mandon, who has called on the country to show "fortitude" and "accept losing our children" in order to "protect what we are," warning that Russia is preparing for confrontation with Western nations by 2030.
https://www.euronews.com/2025/11/21/army-chief-warns-france-must-accept-loss-of-our-children-to-deter-russia-by-2030#:~:text=France's%20Armed%20Forces%20Minister%20Catherine,with%20Western%20nations%20by%202030.
I wonder what that means "protect what we are".
Another war for "our values" requires child sacrifice. Dont all rush to sign up!
Quote from: DaleCooper on November 21, 2025, 11:10:47 AMFrance's Armed Forces Minister Catherine Vautrin backed top military officer General Fabien Mandon, who has called on the country to show "fortitude" and "accept losing our children" in order to "protect what we are," warning that Russia is preparing for confrontation with Western nations by 2030.
https://www.euronews.com/2025/11/21/army-chief-warns-france-must-accept-loss-of-our-children-to-deter-russia-by-2030#:~:text=France's%20Armed%20Forces%20Minister%20Catherine,with%20Western%20nations%20by%202030.
I wonder what that means "protect what we are".
Another war for "our values" requires child sacrifice. Dont all rush to sign up!
So the answer is?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2025, 11:20:38 AMQuote from: DaleCooper on November 21, 2025, 11:10:47 AMFrance's Armed Forces Minister Catherine Vautrin backed top military officer General Fabien Mandon, who has called on the country to show "fortitude" and "accept losing our children" in order to "protect what we are," warning that Russia is preparing for confrontation with Western nations by 2030.
https://www.euronews.com/2025/11/21/army-chief-warns-france-must-accept-loss-of-our-children-to-deter-russia-by-2030#:~:text=France's%20Armed%20Forces%20Minister%20Catherine,with%20Western%20nations%20by%202030.
I wonder what that means "protect what we are".
Another war for "our values" requires child sacrifice. Dont all rush to sign up!
So the answer is?
War. Obviously.
Dale and Burdjizzo think you can ward off Russian missiles and drones with poetry and platitudes.
Quote from: Genocide Organ on November 21, 2025, 11:23:10 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2025, 11:20:38 AMQuote from: DaleCooper on November 21, 2025, 11:10:47 AMFrance's Armed Forces Minister Catherine Vautrin backed top military officer General Fabien Mandon, who has called on the country to show "fortitude" and "accept losing our children" in order to "protect what we are," warning that Russia is preparing for confrontation with Western nations by 2030.
https://www.euronews.com/2025/11/21/army-chief-warns-france-must-accept-loss-of-our-children-to-deter-russia-by-2030#:~:text=France's%20Armed%20Forces%20Minister%20Catherine,with%20Western%20nations%20by%202030.
I wonder what that means "protect what we are".
Another war for "our values" requires child sacrifice. Dont all rush to sign up!
So the answer is?
War. Obviously.
Why can't all the countries that are against Russia use the thing that will prevent Russia from continuing with the war and that too hit them in the pocket, will take time and they are doing it, but need to ramp it up more, but will certainly save a lot more lives if everyone else joins the war, any country that is using any exports from Russia must be sanctioned and hit by huge embargoes
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2025, 11:31:28 AMWhy can't all the countries that are against Russia use the thing that will prevent Russia from continuing with the war and that too hit them in the pocket, will take time and they are doing it, but need to ramp it up more, but will certainly save a lot more lives if everyone else joins the war, any country that is using any exports from Russia must be sanctioned and hit by huge embargoes
Countries like China and India are happy to buy Russian oil and back the Russian war effort though. They're good at evading indirect sanctions.
Quote from: Dag Dog on November 21, 2025, 11:38:20 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2025, 11:31:28 AMWhy can't all the countries that are against Russia use the thing that will prevent Russia from continuing with the war and that too hit them in the pocket, will take time and they are doing it, but need to ramp it up more, but will certainly save a lot more lives if everyone else joins the war, any country that is using any exports from Russia must be sanctioned and hit by huge embargoes
Countries like China and India are happy to buy Russian oil and back the Russian war effort though. They're good at evading indirect sanctions.
I know, I did say that the other countries, if they are serious they have to hit these countries that are still trading with Russia with trade sanctions otherwise they are fueling the war. The only other alterative is to push for war against Russia and that isn't going to happen..
Question, would the war be a thing if not for Putin? So I'm asking if he wasn't in charge would Russia be going down a different path?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2025, 11:43:04 AMQuote from: Dag Dog on November 21, 2025, 11:38:20 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2025, 11:31:28 AMWhy can't all the countries that are against Russia use the thing that will prevent Russia from continuing with the war and that too hit them in the pocket, will take time and they are doing it, but need to ramp it up more, but will certainly save a lot more lives if everyone else joins the war, any country that is using any exports from Russia must be sanctioned and hit by huge embargoes
Countries like China and India are happy to buy Russian oil and back the Russian war effort though. They're good at evading indirect sanctions.
I know, I did say that the other countries, if they are serious they have to hit these countries that are still trading with Russia with trade sanctions otherwise they are fueling the war. The only other alterative is to push for war against Russia and that isn't going to happen..
Question, would the war be a thing if not for Putin? So I'm asking if he wasn't in charge would Russia be going down a different path?
When any form of opposition have fallen off balconies and out of windows, I'd say the successors to Putin will all be of the same mind.
https://www.ft.com/content/069843a4-7f8b-4fb8-a2f5-dc4be258c23c
European capitals are rushing to co-ordinate a response to a US-Russian peace plan to end the war in Ukraine, which officials have warned would mean Kyiv's "capitulation" to Moscow's demands. Washington is pressing Ukraine to accept a 28-point peace plan drafted by aides to US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that calls for Kyiv to cede swaths of land currently under its control. It contains further major concessions to Moscow, including banning any future Ukrainian membership in Nato
The full text of Trump's 28-point Ukraine-Russia peace plan
https://www.ft.com/content/79eefaf8-2fc1-47ac-9653-24cf6a0239f5
https://www.ft.com/content/79eefaf8-2fc1-47ac-9653-24cf6a0239f5
1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed. 2. A comprehensive and comprehensive [sic] non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled. 3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and NATO will not expand further. 4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development. 5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees. 6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel. 7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future. 8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine. 9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland. 10. US guarantee: The US will receive compensation for the guarantee. If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee. If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked. If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid. 11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered. 12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to: a. The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centres, and artificial intelligence. b. The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernise, and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities. c. Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernisation of cities and residential areas. d. Infrastructure development. e. Extraction of minerals and natural resources. f. The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts. 13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy: a. The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis. b. The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centres, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities. c. Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8. 14. Frozen funds will be used as follows: $100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine. The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict. 15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement. 16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine. 17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty. 18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. 19. The Zaporizhzhya [sic] Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50. 20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programmes in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice: a. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities. b. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education. c. All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited. 21. Territories: a. Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognised as de facto Russian, including by the United States. b. Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact. c. Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions. d. Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarised buffer zone, internationally recognised as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarised zone. 22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment. 23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea. 24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues: a. All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an 'all for all' basis. b. All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children. c. A family reunification programme will be implemented. d. Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict. 25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days. 26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future. 27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations. 28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement.
https://www.ft.com/content/069843a4-7f8b-4fb8-a2f5-dc4be258c23c
Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has warned that the country risks having to choose between losing US support or forfeiting its dignity in a harsh peace with Russia, as Washington heaps pressure on Kyiv to sign a deal drawn up with Moscow. Zelenskyy's comments, made in a television address to the nation on Friday, came the day after the US presented him with a 28-point plan that crossed several of Kyiv's long-held red lines, and as Ukraine's European allies depicted the new proposals as a "capitulation" to Moscow's demands. "Now Ukraine may find itself facing a very difficult choice — either loss of dignity, or the risk of losing a key partner," Zelenskyy said, telling Ukrainians that they were facing "one of the most difficult moments in our history".
It reads like a Russia wish list. They get to consolidate the territory captured, plus some extra they haven't got. With the sanctions off they can rebuild their economy and with Ukraine's defence limited, they can launch a fresh assault in another few years.
"Guarantees" don't really count for much either. The last guarantees they got for giving up their nuclear arms amounted to the value of a piece of dried shite. And these will likewise, be subject to the whims of a future Russian leader or US president. And with this current POS POTUS, this is purely a transactional business deal, nothing else. A chance to make money and screw a weaker opponent. And if by any chance further down the line the scales should tip the other way, then it's shredder and renegotiating time.
Trump is a bigger **** than Putin.
Putin is what he is and Russia is what it is. They were never allies of Europe. USA was and despite their many faults and crimes, they were seen as our allies and the word of a US president carried weight for us. This is a new low. The word of the US, the seal of the POTUS, means nothing. Less than nothing in fact. Pure dirt.
Quote from: Look-Up! on November 21, 2025, 06:54:57 PMPutin is what he is and Russia is what it is. They were never allies of Europe. USA was and despite their many faults and crimes, they were seen as our allies and the word of a US president carried weight for us. This is a new low. The word of the US, the seal of the POTUS, means nothing. Less than nothing in fact. Pure dirt.
Absolutely.
I've zero love for the Democrat party but anyone that's still backing Trump and his klan is either simple or a total bastard.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/21/britains-troubling-absence-peace-plan-kyiv-capitulation/
Britain's absence from peace plan will lead to Kyiv's capitulation, says former Nato chief
Reports from Washington and Moscow this week reveal a peace deal drafted over the head of the Ukrainian government, writes Anders Fogh Rasmussen, former Nato secretary-general and prime minister of Denmark.
It reads less like a balanced settlement and more like a blueprint for Ukrainian defeat dressed up as peace. This comes barely a month after Donald Trump declared he believed Ukraine could win the war.
Even more troubling is Europe's absence. This includes the UK, which has spearheaded the coalition of the willing. European ministers have expressed concern and demanded a seat at the table, but the fact they must fight for basic involvement shows how far Europe has slipped from the ranks of global power. While Washington and Moscow negotiate the future of European security, Europe sits on the sidelines.
The first contrast we must face is between peace and pretence. A deal that rewards aggression, locks in Russian territorial gains and leaves Ukraine half defenceless is not peace. It is a pause.
There is a second and equally alarming element. Frozen Russian assets worth hundreds of billions are being turned into bargaining chips. One proposal circulating in Washington suggests that one hundred billion dollars of these frozen funds should be placed into a US-led reconstruction vehicle for Ukraine – with the US taking half of the profits. Europe is expected to add another hundred billion.
But at the same time unfreeze frozen European funds – some of which (at least) will go to a US-Russian investment vehicle. At the same time, Russia would be offered a path back into global economic and diplomatic structures.
My own experience as Nato secretary general taught me a simple and unforgiving truth. When Russia wants territory, it does not back down unless confronted by firm, united and credible resistance. Any peace plan that ignores this fact is not a plan but a fantasy.
Volodymyr Zelensky with Sir Keir Starmer outside 10 Downing Street Credit: Getty
The central question remains. What should Europe do?
First, Europe must stop being a commentator and finally become an actor. That begins with preparing a European led deterrence force stationed behind the front lines – not in the trenches – on Ukrainian soil before any peace agreement.
Russia, which has dragged North Korean fighters and mercenaries from all over the world into this war, cannot be allowed to dictate what support Ukrainians receive from their allies.
Second, Europe must insist that any settlement respect Ukraine's sovereignty and must be negotiated with Ukraine at the table. Kyiv's right to choose its alliances is non negotiable. Europe must also insist on enforceable security guarantees, not vague statements designed to be forgotten the moment ink dries on a document.
Third, Europe should certainly welcome American support in the areas where the US offers irreplaceable capabilities, particularly strategic lift, intelligence and air and missile defence. But Europeans must also be prepared to reject any agreement that trades away Ukrainian territory and European security purely for the sake of a quick signing ceremony.
It is right to acknowledge that the US president wants to end the war. Diplomacy is necessary. But the art of the deal cannot become the art of capitulation.
Ultimate acceptance will hinge on how bad Kyiv assesses the situation on the battlefield to be. If it is in real danger of collapse, as some think, it may swallow a close version of the deal. If not, it won't.
Quote from: Munchie on November 21, 2025, 06:36:52 PMTrump is a bigger **** than Putin.
No, just two c***ts who are megalomaniacs!
https://www.ft.com/content/f4112e32-b742-4e91-9c51-aab08067e53e
US army secretary Daniel Driscoll told European ambassadors and western officials at a volatile meeting in Kyiv late on Friday that he was "optimistic that now is the time for peace" — but warned that Washington would show little flexibility. "We are not negotiating details," he said, according to a senior European official in the meeting at the Kyiv residence of US Chargé d'Affaires, Julie Davis. A top European official described the tone of the meeting as "nauseating".
European leaders as well as the prime ministers of Japan, Canada and Australia will meet at 1.30pm local time to discuss their strategy on Ukraine
Can't fathom why Trump can believe it is so good. Would he accept such a deal?
It's not a peace deal. It's not even a deal.
It's a plan for capitulation to Russia. Now and in a few years when they move in to finish the job.
Ukraine won't accept it. Europe needs to really step up now.
Sorry forgot Afganistan. I thought they were sincere.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 22, 2025, 11:52:46 AMIt's not a peace deal. It's not even a deal.
It's a plan for capitulation to Russia. Now and in a few years when they move in to finish the job.
Ukraine won't accept it. Europe needs to really step up now.
It was negotiated between Russia and the US. Europe and Ukraine were excluded. There is no way Ukraine will give up the third of Donesk it controls. The deal is a recipe for instability. Let's see what Europe comes up with. The Russiam money held at Euroclear is €140 million. That would keep Ukraine fighting for 3 years.
It puts US and Europe on a direct collision course. For Europe there's two options. Appeasement and hope down the line with different administrations in either countries the harms can be undone somewhat and sense prevail. That's wishful thinking though and damage to Ukraine could be too great.
Other option is to give US the two fingers and back Ukraine. Invest heavily in European military and make stronger partnerships with likes of UK, Australia, Japan and Canada. That also means attacking the US dollar and moving away from it. That brings the likes of India and China more into trade relationships too.
Two bad options but US are clearly not a reliable partner going forward and need bringing down a peg or 50.
Munich 1938 all over again :-\
Quote from: Rossfan on November 22, 2025, 04:13:51 PMMunich 1938 all over again :-\
https://www.ft.com/content/ee8acc59-5075-4b93-8b26-31302f0d0d9d
Ukraine's western allies have called for "additional work" on a US-Russia peace plan and for the EU and Nato to be given a say over its contents as they seek to delay the terms being forced on Kyiv. The 14 leaders, from countries that include European states plus Japan, Australia and Canada, said on Saturday that the "initial draft of the 28-point plan includes important elements that will be essential for a just and lasting peace", in a joint statement agreed at an emergency meeting in Johannesburg. "We believe therefore that the draft is a basis which will require additional work," the leaders said. "We reiterate that the implementation of elements relating to the European Union and relating to Nato would need the consent of EU and Nato members respectively."
https://www.ft.com/content/ee8acc59-5075-4b93-8b26-31302f0d0d9d
US officials warned that there was little room to negotiate a plan described by European officials as a "capitulation" to Moscow. Separately, Rustem Umerov, secretary of Ukraine's national security and defence council, said that he was "beginning consultations between senior officials of Ukraine and the United States regarding possible parameters of a future peace agreement" in Switzerland. The meeting, he said on Telegram, marks "another stage of the dialogue that has been ongoing in recent days and is primarily intended to co-ordinate our vision of the next steps". UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer said that national security advisers from across European capitals were travelling to Geneva "to work further on the draft" alongside US and Ukrainian officials on Sunday. Starmer had "no plans to visit Washington" but said he was "expecting to talk to Trump in the coming days." European officials will demand that no limits are placed on Ukraine's military capability and that the US offers clear security guarantees as part of the peace agreement, according to people briefed on the plan.
https://www.ft.com/content/ee8acc59-5075-4b93-8b26-31302f0d0d9d
Attempts to forge a joint stance in response have been spearheaded by German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, French President Emmanuel Macron and Starmer. The frantic diplomatic negotiations have been complicated by a desire not to directly criticise Trump, officials said. "We welcome the continued US efforts to bring peace to Ukraine," the leaders said. "We are ready to engage in order to ensure that a future peace is sustainable." "We are clear on the principle that borders must not be changed by force. We are also concerned by the proposed limitations on Ukraine's armed forces, which would leave Ukraine vulnerable to future attack." In addition to Merz, Macron and Starmer, the statement was signed by the leaders of Italy, Norway, Spain, the Netherlands, Finland, Ireland, Japan, Australia and Canada, and the presidents of the EU Council and European Commission. Speaking after the meeting, Merz told reporters: "Wars cannot be ended by great powers over the heads of the affected countries," adding that any solution must involve the consent of Ukraine and Europe
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/22/ukraine-russia-trump-war-latest-news/Donald Trump has signalled he is ready to make concessions to Ukraine after Sir Keir Starmer said America's peace deal risked leaving the country open to Russian attack.
On Saturday, the US president said his 28-point proposal, under which Ukraine would surrender key territory and cut the size of its army, was "not my final offer".
"We'd like to get to peace. It should've happened a long time ago... We're trying to get it ended. One way or the other we have to get it ended," he said.
Asked whether the plan, which was rejected by European leaders, was his final offer to end the war with Russia, he said: "No, not my final offer."
The pattern is for Trump to deliver for Putin and then the other western 'allies' have to try and talk him back out of it.
https://www.ft.com/content/a32aa172-cfb1-4929-9841-e3aa6ee8c67d
US Secretary of State Marco Rubio sought to distance the US from a 28 point peace plan aimed at ending the war in Ukraine on terms favourable to Russia, according to senators he spoke to on Saturday. "It is not our recommendation. It is not our peace plan," said Republican Senator Mike Rounds, who spoke to Rubio as the secretary of state prepared to travel to Geneva to meet senior European and Ukrainian officials to discuss the plan on Sunday. Rubio told senators that the Russians gave the plan to Trump's Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, which the US then relayed to the Ukrainians in its role as an intermediary.
The US gets dafter by the day!
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 21, 2025, 05:18:18 PMIt reads like a Russia wish list. They get to consolidate the territory captured, plus some extra they haven't got. With the sanctions off they can rebuild their economy and with Ukraine's defence limited, they can launch a fresh assault in another few years.
https://www.ft.com/content/a32aa172-cfb1-4929-9841-e3aa6ee8c67d
Rubio told senators that the Russians gave the plan to Trump's Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, which the US then relayed to the Ukrainians in its role as an intermediary.
"It is essentially the wish list of the Russians," said Senator Angus King, an independent from Maine.
The European counter-plan to the ridiculous Witkof-Dmitriev Pact.
https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1992659882164486339?s=46
https://www.ft.com/content/883e5a47-430c-4fc2-85ee-cd6af9bb599d
After hours of painstaking talks that nearly fell apart before they started, the US and Ukrainian teams reached agreements on several issues but "placed in brackets" the most contentious points — including territorial issues and relations between Nato, Russia and the US — for Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy to decide. The Ukrainians said they "were not mandated" to make decisions on territory — particularly ceding land as the original draft plan suggested — which under their country's constitution would require a national referendum. The new draft, Kyslytsya said, bore little resemblance to the earlier leaked version of the peace proposal that had caused uproar in Kyiv. "Very few things are left from the original version," he said. "We developed a solid body of convergence, and a few things we can compromise on," he said. "The rest will need leadership decisions." Each side will now take the latest working drafts back to Washington and Kyiv to brief the presidents. The Trump administration was then expected to approach Moscow to seek to advance the talks, he said. Draft copies of the plan given to the heads of the US and Ukrainian delegations were the only texts to leave the room. Kyslytsya said all other copies were taken back at the conclusion of the meeting.
https://www.ft.com/content/55a9f8cb-52fd-40f2-97ff-e0a13a17e5eb
US army secretary Dan Driscoll is holding talks in Abu Dhabi with Ukraine's military intelligence chief and a Russian delegation as Washington pushes for a deal to end the Kremlin's war.
The meeting in Abu Dhabi comes after progress over the weekend in talks between Ukrainian and US delegations in Geneva as officials from the two countries try to hammer out a text to take to their presidents. On Tuesday, one prominent member of Ukraine's peace talks delegation held out the prospect of an imminent White House meeting between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy to decide the most sensitive remaining issues. "We look forward to organising a visit of Ukraine's President to the US at the earliest suitable date in November to complete final steps and make a deal with President Trump," said Rustem Umerov, secretary of the country's national security and defence council. White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt had said on Monday that there were no plans "at this moment" for Trump and Zelenskyy to meet in person. The talks in the UAE follow days of high-stakes meetings in Kyiv and Geneva during which Driscoll delivered the Trump administration's contentious 28-point peace plan to Zelenskyy.
"A senior U.S. official said that Ukraine significantly changed one of the 28 points in the version that appeared online. In an apparent move to expose alleged corruption, the draft had called for an audit of all international aid Ukraine had received. The language was changed to say all parties will receive "full amnesty for their actions during the war."
Umerov in his statement Friday denied that Ukraine had altered the provision.
https://www.wsj.com/world/u-s-peace-plan-for-ukraine-faces-resistance-from-europe-and-kyiv-0f2bb501
Quote from: DaleCooper on November 25, 2025, 11:30:31 PM"A senior U.S. official said that Ukraine significantly changed one of the 28 points in the version that appeared online. In an apparent move to expose alleged corruption, the draft had called for an audit of all international aid Ukraine had received. The language was changed to say all parties will receive "full amnesty for their actions during the war."
Umerov in his statement Friday denied that Ukraine had altered the provision.
https://www.wsj.com/world/u-s-peace-plan-for-ukraine-faces-resistance-from-europe-and-kyiv-0f2bb501
Of all the bullshit, manoeuvrings and subterfuge concerning the US plan (lol) this past week, it's no surprise you honed in on this little piece of gossip from an unnamed US Official.
The Irish pro-Russki brigade have been having a complete meltdown on X this past week, completely furious at Ukraine for not accepting the planted Vitkoff-Dmitriev surrender plan. They mask their ideological fury as concern for the Ukrainian dead, the absolute ghouls that they are.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/11/26/witkoff-putin-aide-call-leak-trump-diplomacy-analysis/
But Mr Witkoff's lack of experience may now have been badly exposed in the leak of an extraordinary phone call with a senior Kremlin official.
Who leaked it and why will have to wait for another day. (Although there are obvious suspects in a Russian administration that appears content to delay and prevaricate its way through peace talks while its bombs and drones fall on Ukrainian targets.)
And it is worth remembering that diplomacy is always best carried out far from the gaze of the media, where currying favour with thuggish leaders or making ugly promises with negotiators is the price of progress.
Even with those caveats, Mr Witkoff's apparent coaching of Yuri Ushakov, Vladimir Putin's top foreign policy aide, on how to handle Mr Trump and the stop-start peace process is deeply embarrassing.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 26, 2025, 11:57:55 AMQuote from: DaleCooper on November 25, 2025, 11:30:31 PM"A senior U.S. official said that Ukraine significantly changed one of the 28 points in the version that appeared online. In an apparent move to expose alleged corruption, the draft had called for an audit of all international aid Ukraine had received. The language was changed to say all parties will receive "full amnesty for their actions during the war."
Umerov in his statement Friday denied that Ukraine had altered the provision.
https://www.wsj.com/world/u-s-peace-plan-for-ukraine-faces-resistance-from-europe-and-kyiv-0f2bb501
Of all the bullshit, manoeuvrings and subterfuge concerning the US plan (lol) this past week, it's no surprise you honed in on this little piece of gossip from an unnamed US Official.
The Irish pro-Russki brigade have been having a complete meltdown on X this past week, completely furious at Ukraine for not accepting the planted Vitkoff-Dmitriev surrender plan. They mask their ideological fury as concern for the Ukrainian dead, the absolute ghouls that they are.
Why are you so keen to keep it all going?
Quote from: Genocide Organ on November 26, 2025, 01:56:27 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on November 26, 2025, 11:57:55 AMQuote from: DaleCooper on November 25, 2025, 11:30:31 PM"A senior U.S. official said that Ukraine significantly changed one of the 28 points in the version that appeared online. In an apparent move to expose alleged corruption, the draft had called for an audit of all international aid Ukraine had received. The language was changed to say all parties will receive "full amnesty for their actions during the war."
Umerov in his statement Friday denied that Ukraine had altered the provision.
https://www.wsj.com/world/u-s-peace-plan-for-ukraine-faces-resistance-from-europe-and-kyiv-0f2bb501
Of all the bullshit, manoeuvrings and subterfuge concerning the US plan (lol) this past week, it's no surprise you honed in on this little piece of gossip from an unnamed US Official.
The Irish pro-Russki brigade have been having a complete meltdown on X this past week, completely furious at Ukraine for not accepting the planted Vitkoff-Dmitriev surrender plan. They mask their ideological fury as concern for the Ukrainian dead, the absolute ghouls that they are.
Why are you so keen to keep it all going?
Provide one shred of evidence or something that I've said that shows I am 'keen to keep it going'.
Amazing how knuckledraggers like Burdjizzo and the tankie left both sing from the same pro-Russki song book. They've never forgiven Ukraine for not surrendering to Russia. Fighting back is 'keeping it going'. To call it twisted wouldn't even come close.
The upsurge in Kremlin bots has been mental since the 'peace' plan was leaked.
Even our homegrown Russian stooges (Hickey, MacKenna etc) have gone into overdrive. It's hard to figure out of they're celebrating Russia cementing territorial gains, or livid that they're not getting all of Ukraine.
Quote from: Dag Dog on November 26, 2025, 02:55:08 PMThe upsurge in Kremlin bots has been mental since the 'peace' plan was leaked.
Even our homegrown Russian stooges (Hickey, MacKenna etc) have gone into overdrive. It's hard to figure out of they're celebrating Russia cementing territorial gains, or livid that they're not getting all of Ukraine.
It also hasn't occurred to these clowns that giving Russia what it wants now is the very definition of 'keeping it all going'.
For the slow of learning, Russia has never abided by any agreement it has made with Ukraine and its proposals in the peace plan are a clear signal of future intent, i.e. No NATO, no long range weapons, cap on Armed forces, meaningless security guarantees, surrender of fortress cities leaving the road to Kyiv open..
Penny dropping yet?
https://www.ft.com/content/8467569a-9d0d-4f71-9d11-230ddc5324b2
Donald Trump defended Steve Witkoff's role in efforts to end the war in Ukraine and dispatched him to Moscow for more talks next week, as he brushed off leaked transcripts that appeared to show his envoy advising a Kremlin official on how to court the White House. Speaking on board Air Force One late on Tuesday, Trump described as "standard negotiations" a leaked October call between Witkoff and Putin's top foreign policy aide Yuri Ushakov, in which the American referred to a need for Ukraine to give up Donetsk province in any peace deal, crossing a long-standing red line for Kyiv. "He's got to sell this to Ukraine. He's got to sell Ukraine to Russia. That's what a dealmaker does," Trump said of Witkoff, whom he said was set to go next week to Moscow for a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, possibly along with Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner.
https://www.ft.com/content/8467569a-9d0d-4f71-9d11-230ddc5324b2
Bloomberg reported on Tuesday that Witkoff had advised Ushakov in an October phone call on how to pitch a peace deal to Trump, suggesting that they emulate the approach used to secure a ceasefire in Gaza. "I would make the call and just reiterate that you congratulate the president on this achievement, that you supported it, you supported it, that you respect that he is a man of peace and you're just, you're really glad to have seen it happen. So I would say that," Witkoff told Ushakov, according to the transcript. Ushakov responded: "OK my friend . . . I agree with you that he will congratulate, he will say that Mr Trump is a real peace man and so and so," according to the transcript
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2025, 07:32:28 PM"He's got to sell Ukraine to Russia. That's what a dealmaker does," Trump said of Witkoff
:o
https://www.ft.com/content/3742ca9e-a111-49e2-8e4f-756fe57049e9
Lavrov said he "welcomed" a 28-point US peace proposal drawn up with Russian input that called for Kyiv to give up territory and face other restrictions, which was presented to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Thursday. However, a modified 19-point version drawn up with Ukrainian and European negotiators in Geneva earlier this week appears far less favourable to Russia. Rustem Umerov, a senior Ukrainian official, said his team had reached "a common understanding on the core terms of the agreement" with their US counterparts. Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corporation, said there was "no way" Moscow would sign off on the plan amended by Kyiv and the Europeans. Instead, Russia was likely to spin out the negotiations in multiple formats and continue its slow grind on the battlefield, he said. "The tactic that Putin has consistently taken with Trump is to never close the door," said Charap. "They [Russia] are going to say: 'Yes, but . . .' or 'This is a good basis for discussion, but we'd like to talk about the details"
Pray Russia never comes to 'liberate' you:
https://x.com/clement_molin/status/1994116677307433394?s=20
Perhaps a few of the board tankies or RW knuckle-draggers would like a bit of this in their hometowns?
Fed up with decadent western capitalism and western 'fake' democracy? Fancy a bit of Ruskii Mir for yourself and your loved ones?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/28/trump-to-recognise-occupied-ukraine-part-of-russia/
The United States is poised to recognise Russia's control over Crimea and other occupied Ukrainian territories to secure a deal to end the war.
The Telegraph understands that Donald Trump has sent his peace envoy Steve Witkoff and son-in-law Jared Kushner to make the direct offer to Vladimir Putin in Moscow.
The plan to recognise territory, which breaks US diplomatic convention, is likely to go ahead despite concerns among Ukraine's European allies.
One well-placed source said: "It's increasingly clear the Americans don't care about the European position. They say the Europeans can do whatever they want."
Germany to seize back Silesia etc from Poland?
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2025, 02:56:37 PMGermany to seize back Silesia etc from Poland?
Ich bin ein Danziger.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2025, 02:56:37 PMGermany to seize back Silesia etc from Poland?
Trump and his fellow robber barons would bless it if there was money to be made.
The only way peace can be brought to Ukraine is for Europe and the US (won't happen) to bring such pain to Russia that it cannot bear it, economically and militarily. Especially economically. This is the ONLY way. Russia will not change voluntarily. The bully must be cowed.
Trump is prolonging the war, European dithering is prolonging the war.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on November 28, 2025, 04:28:58 PMThe only way peace can be brought to Ukraine is for Europe and the US (won't happen) to bring such pain to Russia that it cannot bear it, economically and militarily. Especially economically. This is the ONLY way. Russia will not change voluntarily. The bully must be cowed.
Trump is prolonging the war, European dithering is prolonging the war.
Agree. Russia's economy is weakening. Ukraine won't cede land. Coordinated sanctions are the way forward.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/11/26/snatching-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory-against-russia/
Russia's energy exports have collapsed. The Kremlin's fiscal regime has suffered its first life-threatening crisis since the invasion of Ukraine.
Putin can no longer find buyers for Russian oil on the world market. Some 48 million barrels are floating on stranded tankers from the Mediterranean to the South China Sea, shunned by Indian refiners and even China's state-owned energy companies, both afraid of secondary US sanctions.
Only cloak-and-dagger customers outside the dollar-based financial system dare to touch oil from Rosneft and Lukoil. They want a bargain.
"We talk to both buyers and producers, and as of Friday, the price of Urals crude at the Port of Primorsk was $40.01 (£30.47) a barrel," said David Fyfe, the chief economist of energy agency Argus.
https://x.com/darthputinkgb/status/1995127333632483403?s=46
OTD in 2013 @CIA began its "coup" by sending group of unarmed students to repeatedly headbutt the batons & boots of peaceful riot policemen so as to start Euromaidan so Nyland could give them cookies.
https://www.ft.com/content/d4275d1d-5a7a-40e4-bc6f-6cba7b8b36cc
For Zaki Laïdi, a French academic and former adviser to the EU's ex-foreign policy chief Josep Borrell, Trump's plan "represents a strategic defeat not only for Ukraine, but for all of Europe" whatever improvements they can extract from US officials.
Capricious Trump may be, Laidi writes for Project Syndicate, but on some issues he stands firm.
Among these is the conviction that Ukraine's wellbeing — and European security more broadly — is of limited importance to the US and should not be allowed to undermine its commercial interests or disrupt its relations with another great power.
The EU should have acted more decisively following Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014 and is paying the price for its "torpor", he adds.
Claudia Major, vice-president for transatlantic security at the German Marshall Fund think-tank, agrees that the Trump initiative represents the return of great power politics with the Russians and Americans deciding what the Ukrainians, Europeans, EU and Nato have to do.
It also heralds the "de-Americanisation" of the Atlantic alliance, she tells me, with the US "moving from being an ally to a broker, maybe to a supporter of Russia. We don't know."
Europeans have no option but to try to keep America engaged, Major says, given their own security dependence. They would like to be able to shape the course of events in Ukraine and Europe more broadly, but "don't have the military tools to make a difference". Nearly four years after Russia's full-scale invasion, Europe still cannot alone arm Ukraine and cannot credibly guarantee the country's security longer term without US help.
Like other experts, Major laments the fact that Europe failed to anticipate Trump trying to impose a lopsided plan on Ukraine or to offer a clear alternative. As this piece in Le Monde explains, there was never an EU counterproposal, despite some media reports. There is no consensus about how hard to push back against the US and, Mayor says, no supporter wants to raise the issue of territorial concessions.
The only treaty the Kremlin ever kept was the Hitler Stalin pact where the USSR joined in with Nazi Germany to start WW2, carve up Poland and invade the 3 Baltic states.
When things were going well for Germany in WW2 the USSR begged to be accepted a member of the Axis powers but were rejected by Hitler.
The Hitler Stalin pact, aka Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact is the only treaty the Kremlin kept their end of the bargain and they did so to the bitter end.
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:m56ddvfdol3bqlguxj6fsa3a/bafkreialwkukzchzgwc465btgb3g2oyvs67vwu6ht24kgm2po35ghv3pk4@jpeg)
Quote from: Dag Dog on November 28, 2025, 03:58:16 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2025, 02:56:37 PMGermany to seize back Silesia etc from Poland?
Trump and his fellow robber barons would bless it if there was money to be made.
Strange to see the "holier than thou" ones waving a flag for ethnic cleansing.
Ireland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Could build plenty over there, commute back and forth each week to work
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
About 350
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
That'll get Casement built lol
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
I'm way ahead of you 8)
Agre on the last bit though
Is this a compulsory donation because Ireland is a EU country , or just a random contribution?
Also , the money is towards "non-lethal military support ". How does anyone know where that money is spend? It's like giving money to the kids for school lunch , and saying "don't be spending that on sweets.". Aye, sure I won't! ::)
https://www.ft.com/content/3e72db0d-077c-4f48-a4a5-a2b8683dae53
Ukraine has opened a new line of attack against Russia by targeting ships in its so-called "shadow fleet" as US-led peace talks enter a pivotal phase, with Donald Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff due to meet Vladimir Putin in Moscow. Kyiv has acknowledged for the first time attacking "shadow fleet" oil tankers that Moscow has used to evade western sanctions since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022, after naval drones hit two sanctioned vessels off Turkey's Black Sea coast on Friday. The attacks are part of Ukraine's escalating campaign to squeeze Moscow's energy revenues and reassure western partners of its continued striking power. Russian forces are slowly advancing in the Donetsk region, which Putin says Kyiv must cede before fighting can stop. "Targeting empty shadow-fleet tankers marks a deliberate extension of Ukraine's deep-strike logic from fixed Russian energy infrastructure to mobile elements of the oil-export system," said Konrad Muzyka, director of Rochan Consulting, a Polish analytical group monitoring the war. The so-called shadow fleet consists of tankers with opaque ownership structures, complicating efforts by Kyiv's allies to act if they breach sanctions. Largely made up of older vessels, the fleet is a mixture of Russian-controlled ships and tankers owned by operators willing to take on riskier freight to benefit from higher rates.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
What happened the last sovereign wealth fund? The housing market collapsed and the banks owed €65 billion. The sovereign wealth fund was liquidated on the order from Berlin and Paris. It will happen again. House prices now are higher than in 2007.
Quote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:37:30 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
What happened the last sovereign wealth fund? The housing market collapsed and the banks owed €65 billion. The sovereign wealth fund was liquidated on the order from Berlin and Paris. It will happen again. House prices now are higher than in 2007.
Should house prices be lower nearly 20 years on?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2025, 08:39:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:37:30 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
What happened the last sovereign wealth fund? The housing market collapsed and the banks owed €65 billion. The sovereign wealth fund was liquidated on the order from Berlin and Paris. It will happen again. House prices now are higher than in 2007.
Should house prices be lower nearly 20 years on?
They should be affordable. Prices are much higher than in the North.
Quote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:58:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2025, 08:39:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:37:30 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
What happened the last sovereign wealth fund? The housing market collapsed and the banks owed €65 billion. The sovereign wealth fund was liquidated on the order from Berlin and Paris. It will happen again. House prices now are higher than in 2007.
Should house prices be lower nearly 20 years on?
They should be affordable. Prices are much higher than in the North.
According to Google the average house price to salary ratio is 8 to 1 in the south and 4.6 to 1 in the north (7.7 in England).
Quote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:37:30 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
What happened the last sovereign wealth fund? The housing market collapsed and the banks owed €65 billion. The sovereign wealth fund was liquidated on the order from Berlin and Paris. It will happen again. House prices now are higher than in 2007.
Of course, the interests of people with money in those banks was important, notwithstanding Belin or Paris.
The solution is not to allow banks act as they did in 2005-2007.
House prices are higher than 2007 in some cases but salaries are one third higher now.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/02/witkoff-kushner-meet-putin-moscow/
Russia is prepared to go to war with Europe, Vladimir Putin has declared, as he accused leaders from the Continent of trying to scupper his peace talks with the US.
Quote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 09:19:52 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/02/witkoff-kushner-meet-putin-moscow/
Russia is prepared to go to war with Europe, Vladimir Putin has declared, as he accused leaders from the Continent of trying to scupper his peace talks with the US.
Whose side would Trump be on?!
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 02, 2025, 09:23:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 09:19:52 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/02/witkoff-kushner-meet-putin-moscow/
Russia is prepared to go to war with Europe, Vladimir Putin has declared, as he accused leaders from the Continent of trying to scupper his peace talks with the US.
Whose side would Trump be on?!
Or Catherine Connolly?
Quote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:58:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2025, 08:39:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:37:30 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
What happened the last sovereign wealth fund? The housing market collapsed and the banks owed €65 billion. The sovereign wealth fund was liquidated on the order from Berlin and Paris. It will happen again. House prices now are higher than in 2007.
Should house prices be lower nearly 20 years on?
They should be affordable. Prices are much higher than in the North.
Think it's a simple yes or no answer
So, try again
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2025, 09:47:42 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:58:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2025, 08:39:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:37:30 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
What happened the last sovereign wealth fund? The housing market collapsed and the banks owed €65 billion. The sovereign wealth fund was liquidated on the order from Berlin and Paris. It will happen again. House prices now are higher than in 2007.
Should house prices be lower nearly 20 years on?
They should be affordable. Prices are much higher than in the North.
Think it's a simple yes or no answer
So, try again
House prices should be lower. A teacher or a nurse on a decent salary should be able to buy a house.
Quote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 09:51:26 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2025, 09:47:42 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:58:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2025, 08:39:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:37:30 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
What happened the last sovereign wealth fund? The housing market collapsed and the banks owed €65 billion. The sovereign wealth fund was liquidated on the order from Berlin and Paris. It will happen again. House prices now are higher than in 2007.
Should house prices be lower nearly 20 years on?
They should be affordable. Prices are much higher than in the North.
Think it's a simple yes or no answer
So, try again
House prices should be lower. A teacher or a nurse on a decent salary should be able to buy a house.
House prices were unjustifiably high in 2007, so the answer is yes, house prices should be lower than 2007.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 02, 2025, 09:35:26 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on December 02, 2025, 09:23:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 09:19:52 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/02/witkoff-kushner-meet-putin-moscow/
Russia is prepared to go to war with Europe, Vladimir Putin has declared, as he accused leaders from the Continent of trying to scupper his peace talks with the US.
Whose side would Trump be on?!
Or Catherine Connolly?
Probably neither given we're a neutral country..
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 02, 2025, 10:24:34 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 02, 2025, 09:35:26 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on December 02, 2025, 09:23:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 09:19:52 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/02/witkoff-kushner-meet-putin-moscow/
Russia is prepared to go to war with Europe, Vladimir Putin has declared, as he accused leaders from the Continent of trying to scupper his peace talks with the US.
Whose side would Trump be on?!
Or Catherine Connolly?
Probably neither given we're a neutral country..
There is no such thing as neutral with Putin. He would destroy the cables linking us to the US and Europe. We don't have the capacity to defend ourselves. The army and navy don't have the hardware.It's a joke.
https://www.ft.com/content/0b351091-3f82-4f2f-bef2-a52a35f009f2
Kaushal suggests that Irish waters are "a blind spot in the defensive architecture around the UK". A Royal Navy veteran is more blunt. "It would be very difficult for Russia to sever all the data flows into the UK because there are so many of them from so many directions. It'd be a lot easier to cut Ireland off," he says. Without taking the risk of directly targeting Britain, a Nato member, he suggests Moscow would still have achieved a "significant economic and social hit on a close friend
https://www.ft.com/content/4748d385-877b-40f3-a1ca-0b8ed5177658
Ireland is an island nation that did not have a navy until 1946, had run out of ships by 1969 and is now so under-resourced that only four of its eight vessels are in service. Lacking security infrastructure, it is also cut off from those who might seek to help: friendly Nato nations are unable to communicate a potential hazard, such as an incoming Russian vessel, because Ireland lacks the intelligence systems to receive classified information, three European naval officers have told the FT. Next year, such vulnerabilities will be on display. Ireland, which has just inaugurated a new president who is vocally opposed to increased militarisation, will host the rotating six-month EU presidency from July and a wider summit of European and Nato nations, known as the European Political Community. "We have big tech, big pharma, big data here in Ireland and that makes us a high value target," says Cathal Berry, a former second-in-command of the Irish army's special operations Army Ranger Wing, and a former legislator. "We're a member of the EU but we're not a member of Nato . . . If you wanted to squeeze the European Union, to strike at the European Union without any fear of Nato retaliation, then Ireland is ground zero." Ireland's location on the western fringe of Europe has long made it pivotal to global communications. The first transatlantic telegraph cable linked Ireland's Valentia Island with the Canadian island of Newfoundland in 1858.
Quote from: Genocide Organ on December 02, 2025, 10:12:35 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 09:51:26 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2025, 09:47:42 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:58:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2025, 08:39:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 02, 2025, 08:37:30 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 02, 2025, 07:00:07 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 02, 2025, 06:28:40 PMIreland give 125 million to Ukraine?
What's this all about?
How many new build houses would 125 million build?
Put it on the side of a bus why don't you.
Ireland is projected to have a €100B sovereign wealth fund by 2035.
€125M is small potatoes.
If there is a housing shortage it ain't because of lack of funds.
What happened the last sovereign wealth fund? The housing market collapsed and the banks owed €65 billion. The sovereign wealth fund was liquidated on the order from Berlin and Paris. It will happen again. House prices now are higher than in 2007.
Should house prices be lower nearly 20 years on?
They should be affordable. Prices are much higher than in the North.
Think it's a simple yes or no answer
So, try again
House prices should be lower. A teacher or a nurse on a decent salary should be able to buy a house.
House prices were unjustifiably high in 2007, so the answer is yes, house prices should be lower than 2007.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/09/25/median-income-of-homebuyers-almost-60-more-than-the-average-wage/
The median income of a person who bought a home last year was €84,400, almost 60 per cent more than the average wage, new data from the Central Statistics Office shows.
The data shows the figure has been rising steadily in recent years, up from €80,100 in 2023 and €75,600 in 2022.
Strong repayment histories, together with regulatory safeguards such as the four times income cap, mean that most borrowers are not overstretching themselves. This balance has been key to maintaining stability despite tight supply."The report shows that the median income for sole purchasers is €55,100 compared to €101,200 for joint purchasers," he said. "This gap shows why buying alone is increasingly out of reach, particularly with limited supply and sustained price inflation.Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown had the highest joint purchaser income in 2024 at €157,100, while the lowest was Monaghan, at €77,900.
Longford was the county with the lowest median purchase price in 2024, at €182,200, while Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown had the highest median price, at €660,000.
Sure we had worry every day what Russia was up to in the 80's. Difference then was heavy US backing, Now the pres, is Putins Bum boy!
PBP statement at the time of Zelensky's Dail visit,
called "Putin's brutal invasion".
But it added 'that it had always rejected the idea of a military solution to this conflict and had opposed calls for military escalation'.
I take it that the super brains at PBP opine that defending your country from "Putin's brutal invasion" is a "military escalation"?
What else do the PBP propose how a country can defend itself against such a "brutal invasion" other than by all military means at their disposal? And what do the PBP propose that Ukraine do instead of military action to defend itself against this "brutal invasion"? sit down on the road holding sunflowers? or just surrender wholesale to the demands of the "brutal invader"?
Possibly the PBP have the idea that the countries that support Ukraine should non-violently sanction the crap out of the "brutal invading" Russia, grab all their EU banked assets, block their floating potential toxic discharge ships from sailing the oceans and do all within their means to scuttle Russia's economy in order to get them to back off Ukraine?
But will we ever know what the PBP actually have in mind to stop this "brutal invasion"? What is this unspoken plan that the PBP have, apart from a vague bumper sticker slogan?
Quote from: Main Street on December 03, 2025, 12:37:51 AMPBP statement at the time of Zelensky's Dail visit,
called "Putin's brutal invasion".
But it added 'that it had always rejected the idea of a military solution to this conflict and had opposed calls for military escalation'.
I take it that the super brains at PBP opine that defending your country from "Putin's brutal invasion" is a "military escalation"?
What else do the PBP propose how a country can defend itself against such a "brutal invasion" other than by all military means at their disposal? And what do the PBP propose that Ukraine do instead of military action to defend itself against this "brutal invasion"? sit down on the road holding sunflowers? or just surrender wholesale to the demands of the "brutal invader"?
Possibly the PBP have the idea that the countries that support Ukraine should non-violently sanction the crap out of the "brutal invading" Russia, grab all their EU banked assets, block their floating potential toxic discharge ships from sailing the oceans and do all within their means to scuttle Russia's economy in order to get them to back off Ukraine?
But will we ever know what the PBP actually have in mind to stop this "brutal invasion"? What is this unspoken plan that the PBP have, apart from a vague bumper sticker slogan?
It's an odd thing for you to contend. Here's a serious question that will seriously undermine your credibility and the point you make. The people in Irish politics who are fanatics for Ukrainian militarism, the journalists from the mainstream media who are fanatical for Ukrainian militarism were some of the biggest advocates for doing nothing during sectarian pogroms in the north. Indeed the leader in the 26 went on live TV during the last general election and wholly blamed the IRA for the trouble.
This is where people like you badly let yourselves down. Your past positions show your current stance on Ukraine to be a phony one. It's nothing to do with invasions or imperialism or freedoms, you just think the West has the right to rule the world.
It will be interesting to see how outraged you get about the forthcoming happenings in Venezuela. The yanks up to their usual tricks again and it's not the first time in Venezuela yet you'll still probably deny they played a major role in destabilizing Ukraine and setting the motions in play for a change to a Western aligned gov which they knew would provoke Russia.
People should be aware that what has happened in Ukraine is a proxy war between two imperialist superpowers - Russia and the US - who are fervently supported by the EU/UK. The Ukrainians are the unfortunate victims in it all.
It's incredible that people can say with very valid grounds that say the Russians are an imperialist superpower, who have a dictator who should be trialled in the Hague as leader and who have committed war crimes in Ukraine yet still be accused of being pro Russian all because you are critical of the West and the US involvement in creating and throwing accelerant on a war in Ukraine.
The level of shilling and smear neo libs get involved in to deflect the role of the West in this conflict is mind-blowing.
Two things can be right. Putin is a dictator and should be tried for war crimes and the US previous and current leaders should be tried for war crimes along with Tony Blair and co?
Why the defending on any part is beyond me
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 03, 2025, 09:25:47 AMTwo things can be right. Putin is a dictator and should be tried for war crimes and the US previous and current leaders should be tried for war crimes along with Tony Blair and co?
Why the defending on any part is beyond me
Spot on
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 03, 2025, 09:25:47 AMTwo things can be right. Putin is a dictator and should be tried for war crimes and the US previous and current leaders should be tried for war crimes along with Tony Blair and co?
Why the defending on any part is beyond me
tankie
Putin must have serious tank on the yanks, has Trump imposed any sanctions on this regime since coming to power. Ukraine are doing serious heaving lifting with their drones on oil depots, oil tankers, why they would suddenly cede a quarter of their country to Russia?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 03, 2025, 09:45:52 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 03, 2025, 09:25:47 AMTwo things can be right. Putin is a dictator and should be tried for war crimes and the US previous and current leaders should be tried for war crimes along with Tony Blair and co?
Why the defending on any part is beyond me
tankie
Saying US leaders should be tried for war crimes that they committed does not make one a tankie.
Utterly clueless and childish take.
you have labeled people tankies for doing that... cannot critise Russia/Putin without mentioning the west!!!
Quote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 08:48:03 AMQuote from: Main Street on December 03, 2025, 12:37:51 AMPBP statement at the time of Zelensky's Dail visit,
called "Putin's brutal invasion".
But it added 'that it had always rejected the idea of a military solution to this conflict and had opposed calls for military escalation'.
I take it that the super brains at PBP opine that defending your country from "Putin's brutal invasion" is a "military escalation"?
What else do the PBP propose how a country can defend itself against such a "brutal invasion" other than by all military means at their disposal? And what do the PBP propose that Ukraine do instead of military action to defend itself against this "brutal invasion"? sit down on the road holding sunflowers? or just surrender wholesale to the demands of the "brutal invader"?
Possibly the PBP have the idea that the countries that support Ukraine should non-violently sanction the crap out of the "brutal invading" Russia, grab all their EU banked assets, block their floating potential toxic discharge ships from sailing the oceans and do all within their means to scuttle Russia's economy in order to get them to back off Ukraine?
But will we ever know what the PBP actually have in mind to stop this "brutal invasion"? What is this unspoken plan that the PBP have, apart from a vague bumper sticker slogan?
It's an odd thing for you to contend. Here's a serious question that will seriously undermine your credibility and the point you make. The people in Irish politics who are fanatics for Ukrainian militarism, the journalists from the mainstream media who are fanatical for Ukrainian militarism were some of the biggest advocates for doing nothing during sectarian pogroms in the north. Indeed the leader in the 26 went on live TV during the last general election and wholly blamed the IRA for the trouble.
This is where people like you badly let yourselves down. Your past positions show your current stance on Ukraine to be a phony one. It's nothing to do with invasions or imperialism or freedoms, you just think the West has the right to rule the world.
It will be interesting to see how outraged you get about the forthcoming happenings in Venezuela. The yanks up to their usual tricks again and it's not the first time in Venezuela yet you'll still probably deny they played a major role in destabilizing Ukraine and setting the motions in play for a change to a Western aligned gov which they knew would provoke Russia.
People should be aware that what has happened in Ukraine is a proxy war between two imperialist superpowers - Russia and the US - who are fervently supported by the EU/UK. The Ukrainians are the unfortunate victims in it all.
It's incredible that people can say with very valid grounds that say the Russians are an imperialist superpower, who have a dictator who should be trialled in the Hague as leader and who have committed war crimes in Ukraine yet still be accused of being pro Russian all because you are critical of the West and the US involvement in creating and throwing accelerant on a war in Ukraine.
The level of shilling and smear neo libs get involved in to deflect the role of the West in this conflict is mind-blowing.
Utter bullshit from start to finish as usual.
1. 'Ukrainian militarism' is tankie-speak for Ukraine's undeniable right to defend itself. See Richard Boyd Barrett tying himself up in knots on RTE radio yesterday and making a fool of himself for further reference.
2. Journalists and MM stance on troubles in north completely irrelevant to the topic.
3. No one here is advocating for the west's right to rule the world. Total fantasy.
4. American deeds in Venezuela irrelevant to the topic of the right of Ukraine to defend itself from invasion.
5. Ukraine defending itself is not a 'proxy war'. Ukraine is fighting an existential war for their own survival, sovereignty and territory. It is a direct conflict for them, they are not fighting on behalf of another power. Ukraine government and military also set their own objectives and strategies. If it was a 'proxy war' the Trump admin would have surrendered already. Their adversary on the other side is Russia - who are they a proxy for? Iran?? Your 'proxy war' is just more tankie muppetry soundbites.
You won't even attempt to refute any of the points above because you can't. You will just repeat it endlessly like a good little tankie.
btw, did yo ever manage to find an agreement that Ukraine broke with Russia? Nah, you didn't, did you.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 03, 2025, 09:55:33 AMyou have labeled people tankies for doing that... cannot critise Russia/Putin without mentioning the west!!!
Saying X and Y are both bad and should be punished is different from trying to excuse X because of what Y has done in the past. Like a tankie would.
Hope that's clear for you.
The usual bollix from PBP in not applauding Zelensky in the Dáil yesterday, what do you expect?
However, it is clear that several SF TDs also did a Connolly in having a short applause to make some sort of statement.
On what planet does an Irish nationalist act in a begrudging way towards another country being bullied by a bigger neighbour who denies its right to a separate existence? What rabbit hole have these people disappeared into?
PBP are an extremist mini party.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2025, 10:50:52 AMThe usual bollix from PBP in not applauding Zelensky in the Dáil yesterday, what do you expect?
However, it is clear that several SF TDs also did a Connolly in having a short applause to make some sort of statement.
On what planet does an Irish nationalist act in a begrudging way towards another country being bullied by a bigger neighbour who denies its right to a separate existence? What rabbit hole have these people disappeared into?
You get exercised at funny things.
Sadly toddlers being picked off by drones and hospitals being bombed into submission don't outrage you but left wing politicians not salivating over Zelensky does.
You're a very strange individual.
Zelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2025, 04:04:23 PMZelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Exactly. The only reason he is in power is controlled by the West. The West have put many tyrannical leaders in power - Noriega, Pinochet, Saddam, Batista - they don't give a damn about rights of citizens or corruption so long as these dictators tow the Western line.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 04:11:03 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2025, 04:04:23 PMZelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Exactly. The only reason he is in power is controlled by the West. The West have put many tyrannical leaders in power - Noriega, Pinochet, Saddam, Batista - they don't give a damn about rights of citizens or corruption so long as these dictators tow the Western line.
More bullshit from you as usual.
1. Zelenskyy won an election in Ukraine. He is not a dictator, he wasn't placed anywhere by anyone in the west.
2. If he was controlled by 'the west', the big dog, the US would have gotten rid of him by now.
3. He remains in power precisely because of the Ukrainian constitution. And it's the Ukrainian parliament that extends Martial Law, not Zelenskyy, so even if he wanted to call an election, he couldn't.
4. The fact that Yermak got the road shows that Ukraine has problems but they are on the right track. Such a thing would never happen in Russia, the US and many European countries. There is corruption in every country. Look at the shite that went on in the UK during Covid ffs.
5. You just say stuff you can't back up. Because you're thick.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 10:07:14 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 03, 2025, 09:55:33 AMyou have labeled people tankies for doing that... cannot critise Russia/Putin without mentioning the west!!!
Saying X and Y are both bad and should be punished is different from trying to excuse X because of what Y has done in the past. Like a tankie would.
Hope that's clear for you.
I gotta ask. What on earth is a tankie?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 04:23:01 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 04:11:03 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2025, 04:04:23 PMZelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Exactly. The only reason he is in power is controlled by the West. The West have put many tyrannical leaders in power - Noriega, Pinochet, Saddam, Batista - they don't give a damn about rights of citizens or corruption so long as these dictators tow the Western line.
More bullshit from you as usual.
1. Zelenskyy won an election in Ukraine. He is not a dictator, he wasn't placed anywhere by anyone in the west.
2. If he was controlled by 'the west', the big dog, the US would have gotten rid of him by now.
3. He remains in power precisely because of the Ukrainian constitution. And it's the Ukrainian parliament that extends Martial Law, not Zelenskyy, so even if he wanted to call an election, he couldn't.
4. The fact that Yermak got the road shows that Ukraine has problems but they are on the right track. Such a thing would never happen in Russia, the US and many European countries. There is corruption in every country. Look at the shite that went on in the UK during Covid ffs.
5. You just say stuff you can't back up. Because you're thick.
Thanks for that contribution Goebbels. You spew propaganda and you relentlessly shill for for Western backed genocide.
I'm not compromised like you. I can condemn Putin for the monster he is and the war crimes he has committed. You on the other hand relentlessly attempt to justify Western backed genocide and deflect away from its meddling in democratically elected nations.
Shame on you, fascist.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 04:30:03 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 04:23:01 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 04:11:03 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2025, 04:04:23 PMZelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Exactly. The only reason he is in power is controlled by the West. The West have put many tyrannical leaders in power - Noriega, Pinochet, Saddam, Batista - they don't give a damn about rights of citizens or corruption so long as these dictators tow the Western line.
More bullshit from you as usual.
1. Zelenskyy won an election in Ukraine. He is not a dictator, he wasn't placed anywhere by anyone in the west.
2. If he was controlled by 'the west', the big dog, the US would have gotten rid of him by now.
3. He remains in power precisely because of the Ukrainian constitution. And it's the Ukrainian parliament that extends Martial Law, not Zelenskyy, so even if he wanted to call an election, he couldn't.
4. The fact that Yermak got the road shows that Ukraine has problems but they are on the right track. Such a thing would never happen in Russia, the US and many European countries. There is corruption in every country. Look at the shite that went on in the UK during Covid ffs.
5. You just say stuff you can't back up. Because you're thick.
Thanks for that contribution Goebbels. You spew propaganda and you relentlessly shill for for Western backed genocide.
I'm not compromised like you. I can condemn Putin for the monster he is and the war crimes he has committed. You on the other hand relentlessly attempt to justify Western backed genocide and deflect away from its meddling in democratically elected nations.
Shame on you, fascist.
Point out to me which point above is untrue and in what way it is untrue.
I'll wait.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 04:33:18 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 04:30:03 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 04:23:01 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 04:11:03 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2025, 04:04:23 PMZelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Exactly. The only reason he is in power is controlled by the West. The West have put many tyrannical leaders in power - Noriega, Pinochet, Saddam, Batista - they don't give a damn about rights of citizens or corruption so long as these dictators tow the Western line.
More bullshit from you as usual.
1. Zelenskyy won an election in Ukraine. He is not a dictator, he wasn't placed anywhere by anyone in the west.
2. If he was controlled by 'the west', the big dog, the US would have gotten rid of him by now.
3. He remains in power precisely because of the Ukrainian constitution. And it's the Ukrainian parliament that extends Martial Law, not Zelenskyy, so even if he wanted to call an election, he couldn't.
4. The fact that Yermak got the road shows that Ukraine has problems but they are on the right track. Such a thing would never happen in Russia, the US and many European countries. There is corruption in every country. Look at the shite that went on in the UK during Covid ffs.
5. You just say stuff you can't back up. Because you're thick.
Thanks for that contribution Goebbels. You spew propaganda and you relentlessly shill for for Western backed genocide.
I'm not compromised like you. I can condemn Putin for the monster he is and the war crimes he has committed. You on the other hand relentlessly attempt to justify Western backed genocide and deflect away from its meddling in democratically elected nations.
Shame on you, fascist.
Point out to me which point above is untrue and in what way it is untrue.
I'll wait.
All of it is untrue. You have relentlessly smeared and represented people. Your dishonest tropes against the Irish President expose you for the smear artist and propagandist you are.
The difference between me and you is I can call Putin a war criminal and Russia and imperialist state without equivocation whereas are stuck on loop defending war crimes and war criminals of the Western world. How can you continue to denounce people so unequivocal of their opposition to Russia and their acts as pro Russian. You have zero credibility and no shame and just use smear to hide behind your own bloodlust and supremacist beliefs.
Like an episode of the Young Ones with 2 Rik Mayall characters
Quote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 04:33:18 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 04:30:03 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 04:23:01 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 04:11:03 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2025, 04:04:23 PMZelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Exactly. The only reason he is in power is controlled by the West. The West have put many tyrannical leaders in power - Noriega, Pinochet, Saddam, Batista - they don't give a damn about rights of citizens or corruption so long as these dictators tow the Western line.
More bullshit from you as usual.
1. Zelenskyy won an election in Ukraine. He is not a dictator, he wasn't placed anywhere by anyone in the west.
2. If he was controlled by 'the west', the big dog, the US would have gotten rid of him by now.
3. He remains in power precisely because of the Ukrainian constitution. And it's the Ukrainian parliament that extends Martial Law, not Zelenskyy, so even if he wanted to call an election, he couldn't.
4. The fact that Yermak got the road shows that Ukraine has problems but they are on the right track. Such a thing would never happen in Russia, the US and many European countries. There is corruption in every country. Look at the shite that went on in the UK during Covid ffs.
5. You just say stuff you can't back up. Because you're thick.
Thanks for that contribution Goebbels. You spew propaganda and you relentlessly shill for for Western backed genocide.
I'm not compromised like you. I can condemn Putin for the monster he is and the war crimes he has committed. You on the other hand relentlessly attempt to justify Western backed genocide and deflect away from its meddling in democratically elected nations.
Shame on you, fascist.
Point out to me which point above is untrue and in what way it is untrue.
I'll wait.
All of it is untrue. You have relentlessly smeared and represented people. Your dishonest tropes against the Irish President expose you for the smear artist and propagandist you are.
The difference between me and you is I can call Putin a war criminal and Russia and imperialist state without equivocation whereas are stuck on loop defending war crimes and war criminals of the Western world. How can you continue to denounce people so unequivocal of their opposition to Russia and their acts as pro Russian. You have zero credibility and no shame and just use smear to hide behind your own bloodlust and supremacist beliefs.
Oh that's interesting. Well, let's just take point number one then.
According to you, Zelenskyy didn't win an election is that correct?
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2025, 10:50:52 AMThe usual bollix from PBP in not applauding Zelensky in the Dáil yesterday, what do you expect?
However, it is clear that several SF TDs also did a Connolly in having a short applause to make some sort of statement.
On what planet does an Irish nationalist act in a begrudging way towards another country being bullied by a bigger neighbour who denies its right to a separate existence? What rabbit hole have these people disappeared into?
Putin-Before-Profit are not a serious party and it's members are not serious people.
This clip is glorious. Boyd Barrett being toyed with like a mouse and losing his rag.
Go to 1 hour and 57 minutes.
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/drivetime/2025/1202/1546954-drivetime-tuesday-2-december-2025/
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 04:42:38 PMOh that's interesting. Well, let's just take point number one then.
According to you, Zelenskyy didn't win an election is that correct?
I never ever said that. I just said that he is there because he is Western backed. It he wasn't the West would have started plotting against them like they did with the democratically elected Russian backed leader. Once again more smears and misinformation from you.
Can you learn how to quote rather than repeating 16 posts everytime you on a Goebbelsesque ran?
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 03, 2025, 04:44:12 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2025, 10:50:52 AMThe usual bollix from PBP in not applauding Zelensky in the Dáil yesterday, what do you expect?
However, it is clear that several SF TDs also did a Connolly in having a short applause to make some sort of statement.
On what planet does an Irish nationalist act in a begrudging way towards another country being bullied by a bigger neighbour who denies its right to a separate existence? What rabbit hole have these people disappeared into?
Putin-Before-Profit are not a serious party and it's members are not serious people.
This clip is glorious. Boyd Barrett being toyed with like a mouse and losing his rag.
Go to 1 hour and 57 minutes.
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/drivetime/2025/1202/1546954-drivetime-tuesday-2-december-2025/
Absolute f**king gombeen. Comes across as an immature teenager.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 05:10:06 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 04:42:38 PMOh that's interesting. Well, let's just take point number one then.
According to you, Zelenskyy didn't win an election is that correct?
I never ever said that. I just said that he is there because he is Western backed. It he wasn't the West would have started plotting against them like they did with the democratically elected Russian backed leader. Once again more smears and misinformation from you.
Can you learn how to quote rather than repeating 16 posts everytime you on a Goebbelsesque ran?
You don't even know what you're saying.
You have some evidence that the west was plotting to get rid of Yanukovych?
The big tankie loaded gun of Nuland's taped conversation centres on Yanukovych remaining president.
He was in the process of being impeached by the Ukrainian parliament when he ran to Moscow.
Gotta love tankies. They never allow facts to get in the way of a good story.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 06:09:10 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 05:10:06 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 04:42:38 PMOh that's interesting. Well, let's just take point number one then.
According to you, Zelenskyy didn't win an election is that correct?
I never ever said that. I just said that he is there because he is Western backed. It he wasn't the West would have started plotting against them like they did with the democratically elected Russian backed leader. Once again more smears and misinformation from you.
Can you learn how to quote rather than repeating 16 posts everytime you on a Goebbelsesque ran?
You don't even know what you're saying.
You have some evidence that the west was plotting to get rid of Yanukovych?
The big tankie loaded gun of Nuland's taped conversation centres on Yanukovych remaining president.
He was in the process of being impeached by the Ukrainian parliament when he ran to Moscow.
Gotta love tankies. They never allow facts to get in the way of a good story.
I do know what I am saying. You're the guy going around smearing and misrepresenting people while screaming about tankies.
You are a war mongerer. You want Ukrainians to die for Ukraine while they flee conscription and who can blame them. Why don't you put your life on the line for Ukraine given you care so much about them? Happy to send Ukrainians to the slaughter field not willing to risk much yourself for the cause.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 03, 2025, 04:40:41 PMLike an episode of the Young Ones with 2 Rik Mayall characters
Don't remember that one. But there was an episode with three Neils.
Anyway, back on topic ..
Democratically elected? Putin changed how many times a man could stand for election, so he wouldn't have to stand down,bit like Trump trying to do in America, but his current health state, he not see the nxt election.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2025, 06:49:59 PMDemocratically elected? Putin changed how many times a man could stand for election, so he wouldn't have to ecer stand down,bit like Trump trying to do in America, but his current health state, he not see the nxt election.
Don't bet on it, sure didnt his da live to 90 plus with dementia?
Quote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 06:19:58 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 06:09:10 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 05:10:06 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 04:42:38 PMOh that's interesting. Well, let's just take point number one then.
According to you, Zelenskyy didn't win an election is that correct?
I never ever said that. I just said that he is there because he is Western backed. It he wasn't the West would have started plotting against them like they did with the democratically elected Russian backed leader. Once again more smears and misinformation from you.
Can you learn how to quote rather than repeating 16 posts everytime you on a Goebbelsesque ran?
You don't even know what you're saying.
You have some evidence that the west was plotting to get rid of Yanukovych?
The big tankie loaded gun of Nuland's taped conversation centres on Yanukovych remaining president.
He was in the process of being impeached by the Ukrainian parliament when he ran to Moscow.
Gotta love tankies. They never allow facts to get in the way of a good story.
I do know what I am saying. You're the guy going around smearing and misrepresenting people while screaming about tankies.
You are a war mongerer. You want Ukrainians to die for Ukraine while they flee conscription and who can blame them. Why don't you put your life on the line for Ukraine given you care so much about them? Happy to send Ukrainians to the slaughter field not willing to risk much yourself for the cause.
So once again you just ignore everything that refutes the argument you're attempting to make and move the conversation along to more bullshit.
The most cynical thing about tankies is that they dress up their support of Russia as concern for Ukrainians. Utter ghouls, the lot of them.
As long as the Ukrainian people want to stand up to Russia, I will support them. As for any Ukrainian who doesn't want to fight, I don't blame them either, but at least I do know who to blame, that has pushed Ukraine to such desperate measures.
As for going to the frontlines, yeah, thats's another tankie favourite, as if you can't support the right of a nation to fight annihilation without picking up a rifle yourself.
Interestingly it's usually a certain type of pro-Palestinian that uses this argument, despite the irony being that haven't set foot in the West Bank or Gaza in their lives. Or done anything to help Palestine other than slabber online. Someone else put it perfectly on this board elsewhere, 'mouthy c*nt', I think the expression was. HoG fits the description perfectly.
Any chance you 2 could take it to pm?
The same shite talked over and over and over..
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2025, 04:04:23 PMZelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Do you know of many governments that aren't corrupt?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 03, 2025, 07:59:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2025, 04:04:23 PMZelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Do you know of many governments that aren't corrupt?
Fair point lol
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 03, 2025, 07:59:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2025, 04:04:23 PMZelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Do you know of many governments that aren't corrupt?
Where there are people, there will be corruption.But there is a huge difference between Russia and the Nordic countries or Switzerland.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2025, 08:22:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 03, 2025, 07:59:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 03, 2025, 04:04:23 PMZelensky's right hand man has got the road over corruption allegations. Russia is totally in the wrong but Ukraine (government) are a shower of crooks.
It's the ordinary civilians in Ukraine and the soldiers Putin is using as cannon fodder who'll bear the brunt as per.
Do you know of many governments that aren't corrupt?
Where there are people, there will be corruption.But there is a huge difference between Russia and the Nordic countries or Switzerland.
Ukraine has to work on corruption and rule of law in order to join the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/3c23910f-795c-4151-a47c-db4f0137fb40
Brussels has proposed a legally contentious workaround to raise up to €210bn for Ukraine backed by immobilised Russian state assets, including emergency powers that in effect strip Hungary and other dissenting countries of their veto. The proposal, which would mark a watershed moment for the EU by enabling sanctions to be imposed without unanimity, is a last-ditch attempt to ensure Kyiv's economic survival by bypassing potential opposition from Russia-friendly countries such as Hungary or Slovakia. The "reparations loan" would leverage up to €210bn of Russian assets immobilised by EU sanctions to fund Kyiv, which would not have to repay the loan until Russia pays reparations. EU countries would have to back the loan with national guarantees.
"Europe will remain [Ukraine's] strongest and most steadfast partner . . . we can equip them with the means to defend themselves and lead peace negotiations from a position of strength," said European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen. "The message to Russia is that the reparations loan is increasing the cost of war for Russia and invites Russia to the negotiating table to finally find peace," she added. Ursula von der Leyen said: 'Europe will remain [Ukraine's] strongest and most steadfast partner . . . we can equip them with the means to defend themselves' © Simon Wohlfahrt/Bloomberg The commission's proposal would attempt to lock Russian assets in the EU indefinitely through emergency powers. The legal measure aims to override countries such as Hungary potentially using a national veto on the rollover of sanctions, which expire every six months. The commission proposal would "prohibit, on a temporary basis, any direct or indirect transfer to or for the benefit of the Central Bank of Russia". Such restrictions, which mimic sanctions by ensuring Russian central bank assets remain immobilised in the EU, are justified as being "urgently required to limit the damage to the Union's economy". The extraordinary measures aim to overcome the main reservations of Belgium, which has vehemently opposed the plan because it fears being left on the hook as a result of most of the assets being held at Brussels-based central securities depository Euroclear. Belgium is worried it would have to repay the loan if the sanctions were lifted and the assets unfrozen, or in the event of a peace deal without agreement on reparations.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 08:48:03 AMQuote from: Main Street on December 03, 2025, 12:37:51 AMPBP statement at the time of Zelensky's Dail visit,
called "Putin's brutal invasion".
But it added 'that it had always rejected the idea of a military solution to this conflict and had opposed calls for military escalation'.
I take it that the super brains at PBP opine that defending your country from "Putin's brutal invasion" is a "military escalation"?
What else do the PBP propose how a country can defend itself against such a "brutal invasion" other than by all military means at their disposal? And what do the PBP propose that Ukraine do instead of military action to defend itself against this "brutal invasion"? sit down on the road holding sunflowers? or just surrender wholesale to the demands of the "brutal invader"?
Possibly the PBP have the idea that the countries that support Ukraine should non-violently sanction the crap out of the "brutal invading" Russia, grab all their EU banked assets, block their floating potential toxic discharge ships from sailing the oceans and do all within their means to scuttle Russia's economy in order to get them to back off Ukraine?
But will we ever know what the PBP actually have in mind to stop this "brutal invasion"? What is this unspoken plan that the PBP have, apart from a vague bumper sticker slogan?
It's an odd thing for you to contend. Here's a serious question that will seriously undermine your credibility and the point you make. The people in Irish politics who are fanatics for Ukrainian militarism, the journalists from the mainstream media who are fanatical for Ukrainian militarism were some of the biggest advocates for doing nothing during sectarian pogroms in the north. Indeed the leader in the 26 went on live TV during the last general election and wholly blamed the IRA for the trouble.
This is where people like you badly let yourselves down. Your past positions show your current stance on Ukraine to be a phony one. It's nothing to do with invasions or imperialism or freedoms, you just think the West has the right to rule the world.
It will be interesting to see how outraged you get about the forthcoming happenings in Venezuela. The yanks up to their usual tricks again and it's not the first time in Venezuela yet you'll still probably deny they played a major role in destabilizing Ukraine and setting the motions in play for a change to a Western aligned gov which they knew would provoke Russia.
People should be aware that what has happened in Ukraine is a proxy war between two imperialist superpowers - Russia and the US - who are fervently supported by the EU/UK. The Ukrainians are the unfortunate victims in it all.
It's incredible that people can say with very valid grounds that say the Russians are an imperialist superpower, who have a dictator who should be trialled in the Hague as leader and who have committed war crimes in Ukraine yet still be accused of being pro Russian all because you are critical of the West and the US involvement in creating and throwing accelerant on a war in Ukraine.
The level of shilling and smear neo libs get involved in to deflect the role of the West in this conflict is mind-blowing.
So you are offering absolutely nothing to the question about what PBP opine as a response to in their words "Putin's brutal invasion", except irrelevant drivel.
main street, how will the war end?
Russian collapse, you have being posting about this for 3 years, a change of US president? Dems gave up Crimea, not done enough for Ukraine when in power or Europe step up, again not done enough.. and how long more will it take for these to happen and how long more can Ukraine keep fighting without support needed to win a war.
negotiating from a position of strength is about 3 years old now too..
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 03, 2025, 11:36:45 PMmain street, how will the war end?
Russian collapse, you have being posting about this for 3 years, a change of US president? Dems gave up Crimea, not done enough for Ukraine when in power or Europe step up, again not done enough.. and how long more will it take for these to happen and how long more can Ukraine keep fighting without support needed to win a war.
negotiating from a position of strength is about 3 years old now too..
The loan on Russian assets held in Belgium will fund Ukraine for 3 years. Sanctions on oil will hit Russia. Oil has funded the Russian war machine. Countries such as India have joined in. A combination of a strong Ukraine and a weakened Russia should move things on.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 03, 2025, 11:36:45 PMmain street, how will the war end?
Russian collapse, you have being posting about this for 3 years, a change of US president? Dems gave up Crimea, not done enough for Ukraine when in power or Europe step up, again not done enough.. and how long more will it take for these to happen and how long more can Ukraine keep fighting without support needed to win a war.
negotiating from a position of strength is about 3 years old now too..
It's really quite amazing that after everything Russia has done and said these past almost 4 years you still don't get it.
maybe main street can answer
It ends like most wars, the weak generally concedes lose land, people, displacement
Sounds familiar?
Quote from: Main Street on December 03, 2025, 10:02:54 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 03, 2025, 08:48:03 AMQuote from: Main Street on December 03, 2025, 12:37:51 AMPBP statement at the time of Zelensky's Dail visit,
called "Putin's brutal invasion".
But it added 'that it had always rejected the idea of a military solution to this conflict and had opposed calls for military escalation'.
I take it that the super brains at PBP opine that defending your country from "Putin's brutal invasion" is a "military escalation"?
What else do the PBP propose how a country can defend itself against such a "brutal invasion" other than by all military means at their disposal? And what do the PBP propose that Ukraine do instead of military action to defend itself against this "brutal invasion"? sit down on the road holding sunflowers? or just surrender wholesale to the demands of the "brutal invader"?
Possibly the PBP have the idea that the countries that support Ukraine should non-violently sanction the crap out of the "brutal invading" Russia, grab all their EU banked assets, block their floating potential toxic discharge ships from sailing the oceans and do all within their means to scuttle Russia's economy in order to get them to back off Ukraine?
But will we ever know what the PBP actually have in mind to stop this "brutal invasion"? What is this unspoken plan that the PBP have, apart from a vague bumper sticker slogan?
It's an odd thing for you to contend. Here's a serious question that will seriously undermine your credibility and the point you make. The people in Irish politics who are fanatics for Ukrainian militarism, the journalists from the mainstream media who are fanatical for Ukrainian militarism were some of the biggest advocates for doing nothing during sectarian pogroms in the north. Indeed the leader in the 26 went on live TV during the last general election and wholly blamed the IRA for the trouble.
This is where people like you badly let yourselves down. Your past positions show your current stance on Ukraine to be a phony one. It's nothing to do with invasions or imperialism or freedoms, you just think the West has the right to rule the world.
It will be interesting to see how outraged you get about the forthcoming happenings in Venezuela. The yanks up to their usual tricks again and it's not the first time in Venezuela yet you'll still probably deny they played a major role in destabilizing Ukraine and setting the motions in play for a change to a Western aligned gov which they knew would provoke Russia.
People should be aware that what has happened in Ukraine is a proxy war between two imperialist superpowers - Russia and the US - who are fervently supported by the EU/UK. The Ukrainians are the unfortunate victims in it all.
It's incredible that people can say with very valid grounds that say the Russians are an imperialist superpower, who have a dictator who should be trialled in the Hague as leader and who have committed war crimes in Ukraine yet still be accused of being pro Russian all because you are critical of the West and the US involvement in creating and throwing accelerant on a war in Ukraine.
The level of shilling and smear neo libs get involved in to deflect the role of the West in this conflict is mind-blowing.
So you are offering absolutely nothing to the question about what PBP opine as a response to in their words "Putin's brutal invasion", except irrelevant drivel.
Excuse me but you are a complete and utter hypocrite and you engage in bad faith. You won't address your contradictions which have been exposed and then you have ignored them.
You are expressing faux outrage. You do not care for Ukranians and you do not care for justice or peace. To cynically try and exploit those people for your own political agenda is quite disgusting.
I'll show the forum how big a hypocrite you are. You are ranting on about PBP not salivating over Zelensky who is certainly dubious in many respects.
Can you show us a post you made where you were horrified about Micheal Martin going over to Israel amidst a genocide, pointing at holes in a ceiling and shaking the hand of a war criminal?
Can you show us a post where you expressed revulsion at MM and his party hosting the ambassador of a state committing war crimes and perpetuating a genocide at his annual party conference?
Can you show us your disgust at the Irish govt consistently delaying and watering down the OTB from coming into being when they had sanctions on Russia almost immediately.
You don't have a backbone, you don't have any point of principle here. You are a disgraceful propagandist of imperialism and western supremacy
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 07:14:34 PMSo once again you just ignore everything that refutes the argument you're attempting to make and move the conversation along to more bullshit.
The most cynical thing about tankies is that they dress up their support of Russia as concern for Ukrainians. Utter ghouls, the lot of them.
As long as the Ukrainian people want to stand up to Russia, I will support them. As for any Ukrainian who doesn't want to fight, I don't blame them either, but at least I do know who to blame, that has pushed Ukraine to such desperate measures.
As for going to the frontlines, yeah, thats's another tankie favourite, as if you can't support the right of a nation to fight annihilation without picking up a rifle yourself.
Interestingly it's usually a certain type of pro-Palestinian that uses this argument, despite the irony being that haven't set foot in the West Bank or Gaza in their lives. Or done anything to help Palestine other than slabber online. Someone else put it perfectly on this board elsewhere, 'mouthy c*nt', I think the expression was. HoG fits the description perfectly.
You can call me a "mouthy ****" all you want. You're the ethno supremacist fascist here and a cowardly one at that. Why don't you go out your life on the line for Ukraine rather than demanding the lives of innocents are given up because the US and Western states want to have their puppets in charge.
You are sounding like a unhinged conspiracy theorist with the incessant propaganda and smears you spread.
Some simple truths:
Russia's goal in this war is the destruction of Ukraine as a sovereign, independent state.
Russia has not changed their goal despite the war turning into a disaster for them.
They won't accept any agreement that will make this goal more difficult/impossible in the future.
They will accept an 'agreement' that leaves Ukraine a sitting duck.
Security assurances for Ukraine on paper are worthless.
Whatever is agreed, if anything, will be broken by Russia at some point in the future.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 04, 2025, 09:22:54 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 07:14:34 PMSo once again you just ignore everything that refutes the argument you're attempting to make and move the conversation along to more bullshit.
The most cynical thing about tankies is that they dress up their support of Russia as concern for Ukrainians. Utter ghouls, the lot of them.
As long as the Ukrainian people want to stand up to Russia, I will support them. As for any Ukrainian who doesn't want to fight, I don't blame them either, but at least I do know who to blame, that has pushed Ukraine to such desperate measures.
As for going to the frontlines, yeah, thats's another tankie favourite, as if you can't support the right of a nation to fight annihilation without picking up a rifle yourself.
Interestingly it's usually a certain type of pro-Palestinian that uses this argument, despite the irony being that haven't set foot in the West Bank or Gaza in their lives. Or done anything to help Palestine other than slabber online. Someone else put it perfectly on this board elsewhere, 'mouthy c*nt', I think the expression was. HoG fits the description perfectly.
You can call me a "mouthy ****" all you want. You're the ethno supremacist fascist here and a cowardly one at that. Why don't you go out your life on the line for Ukraine rather than demanding the lives of innocents are given up because the US and Western states want to have their puppets in charge.
You are sounding like a unhinged conspiracy theorist with the incessant propaganda and smears you spread.
I have demanded nothing.
Ukraine has never asked for others to go and fight for them, they have only ever asked for support, which I have given.
You have given your support to child murdering, rapist Russia. You don't care about dead civilians in Ukraine or anywhere else.
You're no better than a flag-waving Zionist.
You leech off Palestininan suffering to feed your anti-western ideology.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 09:26:32 AMSome simple truths:
Russia's goal in this war is the destruction of Ukraine as a sovereign, independent state.
Russia has not changed their goal despite the war turning into a disaster for them.
They won't accept any agreement that will make this goal more difficult/impossible in the future.
They will accept an 'agreement' that leaves Ukraine a sitting duck.
Security assurances for Ukraine on paper are worthless.
Whatever is agreed, if anything, will be broken by Russia at some point in the future.
You could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
You could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
[/quote]
I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?
Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
Quote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:08:48 PMYou could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?
Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
[/quote] Would it be surprising if he tried for more if he got Ukraine?
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 09:31:20 AMQuote from: Hand of God on December 04, 2025, 09:22:54 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 07:14:34 PMSo once again you just ignore everything that refutes the argument you're attempting to make and move the conversation along to more bullshit.
The most cynical thing about tankies is that they dress up their support of Russia as concern for Ukrainians. Utter ghouls, the lot of them.
As long as the Ukrainian people want to stand up to Russia, I will support them. As for any Ukrainian who doesn't want to fight, I don't blame them either, but at least I do know who to blame, that has pushed Ukraine to such desperate measures.
As for going to the frontlines, yeah, thats's another tankie favourite, as if you can't support the right of a nation to fight annihilation without picking up a rifle yourself.
Interestingly it's usually a certain type of pro-Palestinian that uses this argument, despite the irony being that haven't set foot in the West Bank or Gaza in their lives. Or done anything to help Palestine other than slabber online. Someone else put it perfectly on this board elsewhere, 'mouthy c*nt', I think the expression was. HoG fits the description perfectly.
You can call me a "mouthy ****" all you want. You're the ethno supremacist fascist here and a cowardly one at that. Why don't you go out your life on the line for Ukraine rather than demanding the lives of innocents are given up because the US and Western states want to have their puppets in charge.
You are sounding like a unhinged conspiracy theorist with the incessant propaganda and smears you spread.
I have demanded nothing.
Ukraine has never asked for others to go and fight for them, they have only ever asked for support, which I have given.
You have given your support to child murdering, rapist Russia. You don't care about dead civilians in Ukraine or anywhere else.
You're no better than a flag-waving Zionist.
You leech off Palestininan suffering to feed your anti-western ideology.
I don't leech on anything. I'm consistent in my view in that I think Russia are an imperialist superpower like the Western nations but with nowhere near as much blood on their hands.
You on the other hand think the West are the good guys despite their centuries of colonisation and genocide dating up to the present day. Ukraine doesn't hold a candle to the Western backed depravity in Gaza.
You don't care about Ukraine. Go and put your life on the line for them if you do.
Quote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:08:48 PMYou could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
/quote]
I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?
Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
Years ago some Lithuanian mates were on about Russia and how dangerous they were and that there was a genuine fear at home from some people that there would be an attempt to take them over again. I listened but didn't pay any heed. Sounded a bit far fetched and paranoid. Just a symptom of their justified dislike of Russia, but the world had moved on.
Then there was all the scaremongering a few years ago from some sections in the news. Russia were going to invade Ukraine. Thought they were all off their heads, just a bit of posturing from Putin. Couldn't believe what's happened since. So I wouldn't put too much past Russia at this stage.
End of the day Europe needs to be independent and secure, that much is now clear. And it wants an army not to push a narrative, it wants an army because it needs an army. There are no genuine allies. If I had heard someone say this a few years ago I'd have said they needed a slap, but that's where we're at unfortunately.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 04, 2025, 02:17:08 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 09:31:20 AMQuote from: Hand of God on December 04, 2025, 09:22:54 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 03, 2025, 07:14:34 PMSo once again you just ignore everything that refutes the argument you're attempting to make and move the conversation along to more bullshit.
The most cynical thing about tankies is that they dress up their support of Russia as concern for Ukrainians. Utter ghouls, the lot of them.
As long as the Ukrainian people want to stand up to Russia, I will support them. As for any Ukrainian who doesn't want to fight, I don't blame them either, but at least I do know who to blame, that has pushed Ukraine to such desperate measures.
As for going to the frontlines, yeah, thats's another tankie favourite, as if you can't support the right of a nation to fight annihilation without picking up a rifle yourself.
Interestingly it's usually a certain type of pro-Palestinian that uses this argument, despite the irony being that haven't set foot in the West Bank or Gaza in their lives. Or done anything to help Palestine other than slabber online. Someone else put it perfectly on this board elsewhere, 'mouthy c*nt', I think the expression was. HoG fits the description perfectly.
You can call me a "mouthy ****" all you want. You're the ethno supremacist fascist here and a cowardly one at that. Why don't you go out your life on the line for Ukraine rather than demanding the lives of innocents are given up because the US and Western states want to have their puppets in charge.
You are sounding like a unhinged conspiracy theorist with the incessant propaganda and smears you spread.
I have demanded nothing.
Ukraine has never asked for others to go and fight for them, they have only ever asked for support, which I have given.
You have given your support to child murdering, rapist Russia. You don't care about dead civilians in Ukraine or anywhere else.
You're no better than a flag-waving Zionist.
You leech off Palestininan suffering to feed your anti-western ideology.
I don't leech on anything. I'm consistent in my view in that I think Russia are an imperialist superpower like the Western nations but with nowhere near as much blood on their hands.
You on the other hand think the West are the good guys despite their centuries of colonisation and genocide dating up to the present day. Ukraine doesn't hold a candle to the Western backed depravity in Gaza.
You don't care about Ukraine. Go and put your life on the line for them if you do.
Everything you've written is bullshit as usual:
1. If you insist on a blood league table, I'd suggest you do it by country, not Russia vs 'the west' (many countries).
2. If you do think Russia does not have as much blood on its hands as western countries, i would suggest you go to the library and read a book.
3. I have never stated 'the west' are the 'good guys'. I have stated the west are correct to support Ukraine.
4. Ukraine is the victim of Russian aggression.
5. The depravity inflicted on Ukraine by Russia easily matches what Israel has done in Gaza (and the west enabled) both in terms of death count and devastation.
6. I won't say it's worse, I don't want to downplay Palestinian suffering. I'll leave that for cynical tankies. Gaza suffers. Ukraine suffers.
6. Russia has also brought its own particular trademark barbarism and cruelty to Ukraine,
i.e.
rape of men, women and children and videoing themselves doing so
torture chambers
murder of POWS by beheading and videoing themselves doing so
castration and murder of POWs and videoing themselves doing so
and on and on
Of course, you don't care about any of the above. Your ideology, makes allowances for it. As long as a regime opposes the west, all is good. It's for others to suffer oppression under the regimes, but not for you.
p.s. do tell me all about your last trip to Palestine. Leech.
Quote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:08:48 PMYou could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?
Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
[/quote]
Burdjizzo in Ireland doesn't buy it folks. Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, whose occupation by the Russians only ended in 1993/4 are all delusional and scaremongering.
I'll bet you didn't buy that Russia was gearing up to invade Ukraine either, did you?
p.s. do you know why Finland has one of the most formidable armies in Europe?
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 04, 2025, 02:30:21 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:08:48 PMYou could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
/quote]
I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?
Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
Years ago some Lithuanian mates were on about Russia and how dangerous they were and that there was a genuine fear at home from some people that there would be an attempt to take them over again. I listened but didn't pay any heed. Sounded a bit far fetched and paranoid. Just a symptom of their justified dislike of Russia, but the world had moved on.
Then there was all the scaremongering a few years ago from some sections in the news. Russia were going to invade Ukraine. Thought they were all off their heads, just a bit of posturing from Putin. Couldn't believe what's happened since. So I wouldn't put too much past Russia at this stage.
End of the day Europe needs to be independent and secure, that much is now clear. And it wants an army not to push a narrative, it wants an army because it needs an army. There are no genuine allies. If I had heard someone say this a few years ago I'd have said they needed a slap, but that's where we're at unfortunately.
Well said, especially now that NATO is more or less toast. At least for as long as Trump/MAGA are in the WH.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 02:15:55 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:08:48 PMYou could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?
Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
Would it be surprising if he tried for more if he got Ukraine?
[/quote]
Well, according to some on here, this war has been a disaster for Russia, and Russia is on the point of collapse. So, just after being nearly brought to its knees by the Ukrainian effort, can it really invade the EU?!! I somehow doubt it!
Besides, Russia has its own demographic problems, too. No longer can it afford to send endless bodies to the front. An invasion of the EU would put in the ha'penny place the losses in Ukraine. Unless the reckoning is that the EU won't fight at all?
Quote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:57:24 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 02:15:55 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:08:48 PMYou could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?
Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
Would it be surprising if he tried for more if he got Ukraine?
Well, according to some on here, this war has been a disaster for Russia, and Russia is on the point of collapse. So, just after being nearly brought to its knees by the Ukrainian effort, can it really invade the EU?!! I somehow doubt it!
Besides, Russia has its own demographic problems, too. No longer can it afford to send endless bodies to the front. An invasion of the EU would put in the ha'penny place the losses in Ukraine. Unless the reckoning is that the EU won't fight at all?
[/quote] Well they have managed to control America without firing a single shot :D
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 02:39:37 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on December 04, 2025, 02:30:21 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:08:48 PMYou could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
/quote]
I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?
Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
Years ago some Lithuanian mates were on about Russia and how dangerous they were and that there was a genuine fear at home from some people that there would be an attempt to take them over again. I listened but didn't pay any heed. Sounded a bit far fetched and paranoid. Just a symptom of their justified dislike of Russia, but the world had moved on.
Then there was all the scaremongering a few years ago from some sections in the news. Russia were going to invade Ukraine. Thought they were all off their heads, just a bit of posturing from Putin. Couldn't believe what's happened since. So I wouldn't put too much past Russia at this stage.
End of the day Europe needs to be independent and secure, that much is now clear. And it wants an army not to push a narrative, it wants an army because it needs an army. There are no genuine allies. If I had heard someone say this a few years ago I'd have said they needed a slap, but that's where we're at unfortunately.
Well said, especially now that NATO is more or less toast. At least for as long as Trump/MAGA are in the WH.
Unfortunately if Trump dropped dead tomorrow it doesn't change much. USA is a basket case of media and culture war politics. Money talks there and they will sell their souls to the devil for any short sighted quick advantage. Guessing the political climate there in 4,8,12,16....etc years time is not how Europe needs to be planning its future. For years we've left things go as we thought they had our backs but that's proven foolhardy. It's a rude awakening and it will take years of stable building and co-operation between member states to get to a more secure Europe but that's the course we must set.
Quote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:57:24 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 02:15:55 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:08:48 PMYou could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?
Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
Would it be surprising if he tried for more if he got Ukraine?
/quote]
Well, according to some on here, this war has been a disaster for Russia, and Russia is on the point of collapse. So, just after being nearly brought to its knees by the Ukrainian effort, can it really invade the EU?!! I somehow doubt it!
Besides, Russia has its own demographic problems, too. No longer can it afford to send endless bodies to the front. An invasion of the EU would put in the ha'penny place the losses in Ukraine. Unless the reckoning is that the EU won't fight at all?
What's that got to do with the security of Europe? It's not just about being able to repel an invasion from Russia on members, something which can no longer just be dismissed as pie in the sky. It's also about protection of energy and communication infrastructures whether it be wind farms, solar farms, nuclear facilities, subsea cables etc. We're moving away from oil and gas, well Russian oil and gas anyway. Our aim is to be energy dependent and that's going to hurt many suppliers outside the Union. So we need to be able to offer a serious deterrent to anyone thinking of sabotaging these infrastructures. And I'm not talking about strongly worded letters either.
Quote from: Look-Up! on December 04, 2025, 03:21:05 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:57:24 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 02:15:55 PMQuote from: Genocide Organ on December 04, 2025, 02:08:48 PMYou could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?
Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
Would it be surprising if he tried for more if he got Ukraine?
/quote]
Well, according to some on here, this war has been a disaster for Russia, and Russia is on the point of collapse. So, just after being nearly brought to its knees by the Ukrainian effort, can it really invade the EU?!! I somehow doubt it!
Besides, Russia has its own demographic problems, too. No longer can it afford to send endless bodies to the front. An invasion of the EU would put in the ha'penny place the losses in Ukraine. Unless the reckoning is that the EU won't fight at all?
What's that got to do with the security of Europe? It's not just about being able to repel an invasion from Russia on members, something which can no longer just be dismissed as pie in the sky. It's also about protection of energy and communication infrastructures whether it be wind farms, solar farms, nuclear facilities, subsea cables etc. We're moving away from oil and gas, well Russian oil and gas anyway. Our aim is to be energy dependent and that's going to hurt many suppliers outside the Union. So we need to be able to offer a serious deterrent to anyone thinking of sabotaging these infrastructures. And I'm not talking about strongly worded letters either.
https://www.ft.com/content/2ee21b5c-24fc-400e-a51d-2c197d09c471
Russia may gradually ramp up its provocations to test these latent divisions within Nato. One long-discussed scenario is the incursion of Russian ground troops into one of the Baltic states — perhaps on the pretext of defending ethnic Russians. The Kremlin's ultimate goal is to demonstrate that Nato's Article Five mutual security guarantee is worthless. If the Russians could do that, then they might try to pick off smaller European states one-by-one — without ever having to take on the combined might of Nato. Uncertainty about Washington's response is the key to Moscow's probing. The US provides about 40 per cent of Nato's military assets in Europe and some of its most advanced capabilities. There are also American troops in the Baltic states. A Himars artillery unit recently conducted training at the Tapa base and a US tank company is expected to arrive soon. But if the Russians ever staged a major incursion into Estonia or another Nato member, there are obvious questions about how Donald Trump would respond. As Gabrielius Landsbergis, a former foreign minister of Lithuania put it to me last week, "If there is an incursion and attack . . . what can Putin expect? The American Sixth Fleet coming into the Baltics or a call to meet in Alaska?"
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 02:32:44 PMI have demanded nothing.
Ukraine has never asked for others to go and fight for them, they have only ever asked for support, which I have given.
You have given your support to child murdering, rapist Russia. You don't care about dead civilians in Ukraine or anywhere else.
You're no better than a flag-waving Zionist.
You leech off Palestininan suffering to feed your anti-western ideology.
I don't leech on anything. I'm consistent in my view in that I think Russia are an imperialist superpower like the Western nations but with nowhere near as much blood on their hands.
You on the other hand think the West are the good guys despite their centuries of colonisation and genocide dating up to the present day. Ukraine doesn't hold a candle to the Western backed depravity in Gaza.
You don't care about Ukraine. Go and put your life on the line for them if you do.
[/quote]
Everything you've written is bullshit as usual:
1. If you insist on a blood league table, I'd suggest you do it by country, not Russia vs 'the west' (many countries).
2. If you do think Russia does not have as much blood on its hands as western countries, i would suggest you go to the library and read a book.
3. I have never stated 'the west' are the 'good guys'. I have stated the west are correct to support Ukraine.
4. Ukraine is the victim of Russian aggression.
5. The depravity inflicted on Ukraine by Russia easily matches what Israel has done in Gaza (and the west enabled) both in terms of death count and devastation.
6. I won't say it's worse, I don't want to downplay Palestinian suffering. I'll leave that for cynical tankies. Gaza suffers. Ukraine suffers.
6. Russia has also brought its own particular trademark barbarism and cruelty to Ukraine,
i.e.
rape of men, women and children and videoing themselves doing so
torture chambers
murder of POWS by beheading and videoing themselves doing so
castration and murder of POWs and videoing themselves doing so
and on and on
Of course, you don't care about any of the above. Your ideology, makes allowances for it. As long as a regime opposes the west, all is good. It's for others to suffer oppression under the regimes, but not for you.
p.s. do tell me all about your last trip to Palestine. Leech.
[/quote]
Learn how to quote Goebbels. Seriously you are spamming up the whole forum with repeats of your fascist horseshit.
You are such a vile and nasty hypocrite, straight out of the ethnosupremacist playbook.
Once again I will expose for the insincere and cynical propagandist you are.
I can explain my rationale. The US/ West and Russia are both imperialist superpowers vying for control of the world. Ukraine is the battleground and Ukrainians are the innocent victims in this particular war which is in essence a proxy war. I have no issue is saying Russia are the invader, are an imperialist power, have committed war crimes and Putin is a dictator who belongs in the Hague. Yet despite this emphatic rebuke and condemnation of Russia you will try and paint me as pro Russian purely because the West have also played a major role in encouraging, fuelling and prolonging this war.
On the other hand you disgracefully try to present the worlds biggest genociders and imperialists as the goof guys. You are inherently dishonest. Your support Western militarism and imperialism like a football team.
It's pointless engaging with you Goebbels. You possess some unhinged views and spout the most insulting of genocidal propaganda.
Nowhere near as much blood on their hands? What Rock did you live under? Stalin purges clocked millions before WW2 and again millions after it. Ukraine Famine of early 1930's clicked a few million more. And we not go into the tens of thousands who ended up in Gulags during the Cold war.
Oh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 10:55:54 PMOh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Thank god for that. Can the 2 of you agree to disagree please
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 11:17:35 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 10:55:54 PMOh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Thank god for that. Can the 2 of you agree to disagree please
Nah, it's just for that one post. I can't allow a tankie to have the run of the place.
Quote from: Dag Dog on December 03, 2025, 04:44:12 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2025, 10:50:52 AMThe usual bollix from PBP in not applauding Zelensky in the Dáil yesterday, what do you expect?
However, it is clear that several SF TDs also did a Connolly in having a short applause to make some sort of statement.
On what planet does an Irish nationalist act in a begrudging way towards another country being bullied by a bigger neighbour who denies its right to a separate existence? What rabbit hole have these people disappeared into?
Putin-Before-Profit are not a serious party and it's members are not serious people.
This clip is glorious. Boyd Barrett being toyed with like a mouse and losing his rag.
Go to 1 hour and 57 minutes.
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/drivetime/2025/1202/1546954-drivetime-tuesday-2-december-2025/
Had another listen to this this morning.
It's utterly remarkable -RBB couldn't even bring himself to admit that Javelins helped stop Russian tanks.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 11:31:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 11:17:35 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 10:55:54 PMOh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Thank god for that. Can the 2 of you agree to disagree please
Nah, it's just for that one post. I can't allow a tankie to have the run of the place.
Well there's an unsurprising admission, a fascist supremacist can't tolerate other viewpoints.
We know what you are, Goebbels.
Go pretend to care about Ukranians as you want them sent to the slaughter so the West can consolidate its control on global matters.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 11:31:04 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 11:31:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 11:17:35 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 10:55:54 PMOh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Thank god for that. Can the 2 of you agree to disagree please
Nah, it's just for that one post. I can't allow a tankie to have the run of the place.
Well there's an unsurprising admission, a fascist supremacist can't tolerate other viewpoints.
We know what you are, Goebbels.
Go pretend to care about Ukranians as you want them sent to the slaughter so the West can consolidate its control on global matters.
It's called countering Russian propaganda Comrade.
Hey, HoG, did having Javelins help Ukraine stop Russian tanks?
Let's see how high you score on the Boyd-Barret scale.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 12:05:42 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 11:31:04 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 11:31:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 11:17:35 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 10:55:54 PMOh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Thank god for that. Can the 2 of you agree to disagree please
Nah, it's just for that one post. I can't allow a tankie to have the run of the place.
Well there's an unsurprising admission, a fascist supremacist can't tolerate other viewpoints.
We know what you are, Goebbels.
Go pretend to care about Ukranians as you want them sent to the slaughter so the West can consolidate its control on global matters.
It's called countering Russian propaganda Comrade.
Hey, HoG, did having Javelins help Ukraine stop Russian tanks?
Let's see how high you score on the Boyd-Barret scale.
You're not countering propaganda. You are spreading it relentlessly. I don't know any Irish politician who was condoned or supported what Russia have done. Yet if any Irish politician dares to criticise the West and US for their role in creating the circumstances for the invasion, with substance, you immediately try to smear and attack their character. That's propaganda, it's a disgusting attack on democracy you engage.
PBP have been very explicit on their condemnation on Putin and Russia, unequivocal in fact. You ignore this and try and smear them as pro Russia simply because they believe, with foundation, the West have a played a major role in starting, escalating and prolonging this war with scant regard for innocent Ukranian lives.
We see the yanks at in Venezuela again. We saw it in Iraq, we saw it in Afghanistan, we saw it in Iraq, in Chile, in Cuba, in Vietnam. You don't know your history
Zelensky is their plant, he's only there in power as he is aligned with western policy. Same reason why Jolani is in Syria, the West now gleefully accepting ISIS ruling countries. You can't argue any of that, you can only smear.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 12:29:26 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 12:05:42 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 11:31:04 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 11:31:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 11:17:35 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 10:55:54 PMOh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Thank god for that. Can the 2 of you agree to disagree please
Nah, it's just for that one post. I can't allow a tankie to have the run of the place.
Well there's an unsurprising admission, a fascist supremacist can't tolerate other viewpoints.
We know what you are, Goebbels.
Go pretend to care about Ukranians as you want them sent to the slaughter so the West can consolidate its control on global matters.
It's called countering Russian propaganda Comrade.
Hey, HoG, did having Javelins help Ukraine stop Russian tanks?
Let's see how high you score on the Boyd-Barret scale.
You're not countering propaganda. You are spreading it relentlessly. I don't know any Irish politician who was condoned or supported what Russia have done. Yet if any Irish politician dares to criticise the West and US for their role in creating the circumstances for the invasion, with substance, you immediately try to smear and attack their character. That's propaganda, it's a disgusting attack on democracy you engage.
PBP have been very explicit on their condemnation on Putin and Russia, unequivocal in fact. You ignore this and try and smear them as pro Russia simply because they believe, with foundation, the West have a played a major role in starting, escalating and prolonging this war with scant regard for innocent Ukranian lives.
We see the yanks at in Venezuela again. We saw it in Iraq, we saw it in Afghanistan, we saw it in Iraq, in Chile, in Cuba, in Vietnam. You don't know your history
Zelensky is their plant, he's only there in power as he is aligned with western policy. Same reason why Jolani is in Syria, the West now gleefully accepting ISIS ruling countries. You can't argue any of that, you can only smear.
1. Utter drivel from start to finish.
2. I've countered the pro-Russian propaganda in your post multiple times.
3. You can't rebut anything I say, so you refuse to debate any point.
4. You make ridiculous assertions without any evidence.
5. You are a pro-Russian propagandist.
As for your score on the RBB tankie scale. I'm very pleased to report that you scored 12/10. 10 full points for refusing to answer the question put to you and an extra 2 points for rambling on about something else entirely. Even thicker than RBB.
Well done. You have a bright future ahead of you. Perhaps you could get a gig at RT? You could shine Chay Bowes shoes and work your way up from there. Have to start somewhere right?!
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 03:06:02 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 12:29:26 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 12:05:42 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 11:31:04 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 11:31:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 11:17:35 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 10:55:54 PMOh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Thank god for that. Can the 2 of you agree to disagree please
Nah, it's just for that one post. I can't allow a tankie to have the run of the place.
Well there's an unsurprising admission, a fascist supremacist can't tolerate other viewpoints.
We know what you are, Goebbels.
Go pretend to care about Ukranians as you want them sent to the slaughter so the West can consolidate its control on global matters.
It's called countering Russian propaganda Comrade.
Hey, HoG, did having Javelins help Ukraine stop Russian tanks?
Let's see how high you score on the Boyd-Barret scale.
You're not countering propaganda. You are spreading it relentlessly. I don't know any Irish politician who was condoned or supported what Russia have done. Yet if any Irish politician dares to criticise the West and US for their role in creating the circumstances for the invasion, with substance, you immediately try to smear and attack their character. That's propaganda, it's a disgusting attack on democracy you engage.
PBP have been very explicit on their condemnation on Putin and Russia, unequivocal in fact. You ignore this and try and smear them as pro Russia simply because they believe, with foundation, the West have a played a major role in starting, escalating and prolonging this war with scant regard for innocent Ukranian lives.
We see the yanks at in Venezuela again. We saw it in Iraq, we saw it in Afghanistan, we saw it in Iraq, in Chile, in Cuba, in Vietnam. You don't know your history
Zelensky is their plant, he's only there in power as he is aligned with western policy. Same reason why Jolani is in Syria, the West now gleefully accepting ISIS ruling countries. You can't argue any of that, you can only smear.
1. Utter drivel from start to finish.
2. I've countered the pro-Russian propaganda in your post multiple times.
3. You can't rebut anything I say, so you refuse to debate any point.
4. You make ridiculous assertions without any evidence.
5. You are a pro-Russian propagandist.
As for your score on the RBB tankie scale. I'm very pleased to report that you scored 12/10. 10 full points for refusing to answer the question put to you and an extra 2 points for rambling on about something else entirely. Even thicker than RBB.
Well done. You have a bright future ahead of you. Perhaps you could get a gig at RT? You could shine Chay Bowes shoes and work your way up from there. Have to start somewhere right?!
Learning to quote you tiresome bore.
How can I possibly be a pro Russian propagandist when I believe them to be an imperialist superpower who commit war crimes and have a brutal dictator in charge who belongs in the Hague?
The above is something I have stated repeatedly but because I am critical of the West and believe them, with huge amounts of evidence, to be even bigger perpetrators of what I believe what Russia are guilty of. I can go on to days about the tyrants, drug lords, terrorists the US have put in charge, it's fact and it's history.
You are a propagandist and you attack and attempt to smear anyone who speaks ill of the west. I have no issue with you attacking Russia. I do have an issue with your disgraceful, shameless shilling for Western supported genocide and imperialism. It's abhorrent and you will not even acknowledge it, nevermind have the decency or morality to condemn it.
You have no soul.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 04:55:32 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 03:06:02 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 12:29:26 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 12:05:42 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 11:31:04 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 11:31:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 11:17:35 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 10:55:54 PMOh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Thank god for that. Can the 2 of you agree to disagree please
Nah, it's just for that one post. I can't allow a tankie to have the run of the place.
Well there's an unsurprising admission, a fascist supremacist can't tolerate other viewpoints.
We know what you are, Goebbels.
Go pretend to care about Ukranians as you want them sent to the slaughter so the West can consolidate its control on global matters.
It's called countering Russian propaganda Comrade.
Hey, HoG, did having Javelins help Ukraine stop Russian tanks?
Let's see how high you score on the Boyd-Barret scale.
You're not countering propaganda. You are spreading it relentlessly. I don't know any Irish politician who was condoned or supported what Russia have done. Yet if any Irish politician dares to criticise the West and US for their role in creating the circumstances for the invasion, with substance, you immediately try to smear and attack their character. That's propaganda, it's a disgusting attack on democracy you engage.
PBP have been very explicit on their condemnation on Putin and Russia, unequivocal in fact. You ignore this and try and smear them as pro Russia simply because they believe, with foundation, the West have a played a major role in starting, escalating and prolonging this war with scant regard for innocent Ukranian lives.
We see the yanks at in Venezuela again. We saw it in Iraq, we saw it in Afghanistan, we saw it in Iraq, in Chile, in Cuba, in Vietnam. You don't know your history
Zelensky is their plant, he's only there in power as he is aligned with western policy. Same reason why Jolani is in Syria, the West now gleefully accepting ISIS ruling countries. You can't argue any of that, you can only smear.
1. Utter drivel from start to finish.
2. I've countered the pro-Russian propaganda in your post multiple times.
3. You can't rebut anything I say, so you refuse to debate any point.
4. You make ridiculous assertions without any evidence.
5. You are a pro-Russian propagandist.
As for your score on the RBB tankie scale. I'm very pleased to report that you scored 12/10. 10 full points for refusing to answer the question put to you and an extra 2 points for rambling on about something else entirely. Even thicker than RBB.
Well done. You have a bright future ahead of you. Perhaps you could get a gig at RT? You could shine Chay Bowes shoes and work your way up from there. Have to start somewhere right?!
Learning to quote you tiresome bore.
How can I possibly be a pro Russian propagandist when I believe them to be an imperialist superpower who commit war crimes and have a brutal dictator in charge who belongs in the Hague?
The above is something I have stated repeatedly but because I am critical of the West and believe them, with huge amounts of evidence, to be even bigger perpetrators of what I believe what Russia are guilty of. I can go on to days about the tyrants, drug lords, terrorists the US have put in charge, it's fact and it's history.
You are a propagandist and you attack and attempt to smear anyone who speaks ill of the west. I have no issue with you attacking Russia. I do have an issue with your disgraceful, shameless shilling for Western supported genocide and imperialism. It's abhorrent and you will not even acknowledge it, nevermind have the decency or morality to condemn it.
You have no soul.
I'll put it so simply, even you'll get it Leech.
If you spread Russian propaganda and lies, you're a pro-Russian propagandist.
Your propaganda has been debunked. You spread lies about Ukraine that you can't back up.
Simple enough for your simple mind?
Bernie Sanders, normally a hero of the Irish left has come out really strongly against the Putin regime.
No both-siding, but Nato-ing, no whataboutery - unlike the way too many on the Irish left regularly to.
Will Bernie get the cold shoulder now?
https://x.com/SenSanders/status/1996992959758082106
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 05:26:27 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 04:55:32 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 03:06:02 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 12:29:26 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 12:05:42 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 11:31:04 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 11:31:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 11:17:35 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 10:55:54 PMOh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Thank god for that. Can the 2 of you agree to disagree please
Nah, it's just for that one post. I can't allow a tankie to have the run of the place.
Well there's an unsurprising admission, a fascist supremacist can't tolerate other viewpoints.
We know what you are, Goebbels.
Go pretend to care about Ukranians as you want them sent to the slaughter so the West can consolidate its control on global matters.
It's called countering Russian propaganda Comrade.
Hey, HoG, did having Javelins help Ukraine stop Russian tanks?
Let's see how high you score on the Boyd-Barret scale.
You're not countering propaganda. You are spreading it relentlessly. I don't know any Irish politician who was condoned or supported what Russia have done. Yet if any Irish politician dares to criticise the West and US for their role in creating the circumstances for the invasion, with substance, you immediately try to smear and attack their character. That's propaganda, it's a disgusting attack on democracy you engage.
PBP have been very explicit on their condemnation on Putin and Russia, unequivocal in fact. You ignore this and try and smear them as pro Russia simply because they believe, with foundation, the West have a played a major role in starting, escalating and prolonging this war with scant regard for innocent Ukranian lives.
We see the yanks at in Venezuela again. We saw it in Iraq, we saw it in Afghanistan, we saw it in Iraq, in Chile, in Cuba, in Vietnam. You don't know your history
Zelensky is their plant, he's only there in power as he is aligned with western policy. Same reason why Jolani is in Syria, the West now gleefully accepting ISIS ruling countries. You can't argue any of that, you can only smear.
1. Utter drivel from start to finish.
2. I've countered the pro-Russian propaganda in your post multiple times.
3. You can't rebut anything I say, so you refuse to debate any point.
4. You make ridiculous assertions without any evidence.
5. You are a pro-Russian propagandist.
As for your score on the RBB tankie scale. I'm very pleased to report that you scored 12/10. 10 full points for refusing to answer the question put to you and an extra 2 points for rambling on about something else entirely. Even thicker than RBB.
Well done. You have a bright future ahead of you. Perhaps you could get a gig at RT? You could shine Chay Bowes shoes and work your way up from there. Have to start somewhere right?!
Learning to quote you tiresome bore.
How can I possibly be a pro Russian propagandist when I believe them to be an imperialist superpower who commit war crimes and have a brutal dictator in charge who belongs in the Hague?
The above is something I have stated repeatedly but because I am critical of the West and believe them, with huge amounts of evidence, to be even bigger perpetrators of what I believe what Russia are guilty of. I can go on to days about the tyrants, drug lords, terrorists the US have put in charge, it's fact and it's history.
You are a propagandist and you attack and attempt to smear anyone who speaks ill of the west. I have no issue with you attacking Russia. I do have an issue with your disgraceful, shameless shilling for Western supported genocide and imperialism. It's abhorrent and you will not even acknowledge it, nevermind have the decency or morality to condemn it.
You have no soul.
I'll put it so simply, even you'll get it Leech.
If you spread Russian propaganda and lies, you're a pro-Russian propagandist.
Your propaganda has been debunked. You spread lies about Ukraine that you can't back up.
Simple enough for your simple mind?
I don't spread propaganda. I openly and routinely condemn Russia. You on the other relentlessly spread propaganda and when you don't like people stating facts about the West's sordid, blood drenched history of genocide, imperialism and coups - you smear and slander them with falsehoods.
I'm consistent against two imperialist while you a partisan supporter or imperialism and genocide. You can't buy or launder integrity, I actually have and it drives you mad.
Keep on smearing you hollow, hollow man.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 05:34:22 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 05:26:27 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 04:55:32 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 03:06:02 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 12:29:26 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 12:05:42 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 11:31:04 AMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 11:31:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2025, 11:17:35 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 04, 2025, 10:55:54 PMOh the delicious irony of that moron HoG moaning about quotes just as he completely fucks up his entire post trying to manipulate the tags. Beyond his technical ability obviously.
As for the post content - not worth commenting on further. I've debunked every argument he makes and more than once.
Thank god for that. Can the 2 of you agree to disagree please
Nah, it's just for that one post. I can't allow a tankie to have the run of the place.
Well there's an unsurprising admission, a fascist supremacist can't tolerate other viewpoints.
We know what you are, Goebbels.
Go pretend to care about Ukranians as you want them sent to the slaughter so the West can consolidate its control on global matters.
It's called countering Russian propaganda Comrade.
Hey, HoG, did having Javelins help Ukraine stop Russian tanks?
Let's see how high you score on the Boyd-Barret scale.
You're not countering propaganda. You are spreading it relentlessly. I don't know any Irish politician who was condoned or supported what Russia have done. Yet if any Irish politician dares to criticise the West and US for their role in creating the circumstances for the invasion, with substance, you immediately try to smear and attack their character. That's propaganda, it's a disgusting attack on democracy you engage.
PBP have been very explicit on their condemnation on Putin and Russia, unequivocal in fact. You ignore this and try and smear them as pro Russia simply because they believe, with foundation, the West have a played a major role in starting, escalating and prolonging this war with scant regard for innocent Ukranian lives.
We see the yanks at in Venezuela again. We saw it in Iraq, we saw it in Afghanistan, we saw it in Iraq, in Chile, in Cuba, in Vietnam. You don't know your history
Zelensky is their plant, he's only there in power as he is aligned with western policy. Same reason why Jolani is in Syria, the West now gleefully accepting ISIS ruling countries. You can't argue any of that, you can only smear.
1. Utter drivel from start to finish.
2. I've countered the pro-Russian propaganda in your post multiple times.
3. You can't rebut anything I say, so you refuse to debate any point.
4. You make ridiculous assertions without any evidence.
5. You are a pro-Russian propagandist.
As for your score on the RBB tankie scale. I'm very pleased to report that you scored 12/10. 10 full points for refusing to answer the question put to you and an extra 2 points for rambling on about something else entirely. Even thicker than RBB.
Well done. You have a bright future ahead of you. Perhaps you could get a gig at RT? You could shine Chay Bowes shoes and work your way up from there. Have to start somewhere right?!
Learning to quote you tiresome bore.
How can I possibly be a pro Russian propagandist when I believe them to be an imperialist superpower who commit war crimes and have a brutal dictator in charge who belongs in the Hague?
The above is something I have stated repeatedly but because I am critical of the West and believe them, with huge amounts of evidence, to be even bigger perpetrators of what I believe what Russia are guilty of. I can go on to days about the tyrants, drug lords, terrorists the US have put in charge, it's fact and it's history.
You are a propagandist and you attack and attempt to smear anyone who speaks ill of the west. I have no issue with you attacking Russia. I do have an issue with your disgraceful, shameless shilling for Western supported genocide and imperialism. It's abhorrent and you will not even acknowledge it, nevermind have the decency or morality to condemn it.
You have no soul.
I'll put it so simply, even you'll get it Leech.
If you spread Russian propaganda and lies, you're a pro-Russian propagandist.
Your propaganda has been debunked. You spread lies about Ukraine that you can't back up.
Simple enough for your simple mind?
I don't spread propaganda. I openly and routinely condemn Russia. You on the other relentlessly spread propaganda and when you don't like people stating facts about the West's sordid, blood drenched history of genocide, imperialism and coups - you smear and slander them with falsehoods.
I'm consistent against two imperialist while you a partisan supporter or imperialism and genocide. You can't buy or launder integrity, I actually have and it drives you mad.
Keep on smearing you hollow, hollow man.
Everything utterance you make about Ukraine is straight from the Kremlin hymnsheet Leech.
None of the pro-Russian propaganda talking points you regurgitate stand up to even basic logical scrutiny.
That's why you refuse to engage in any form of debate about them.
Rather you attempt to win an argument by verbose nonsense and repeating the same garbage over and over again.
So spare me the condemnation of Russia out one side of your mouth with spewing their filthy lies out the other.
Straight out of the Wallace and Daly playbook. Tankie.
You can't even work out the quote function.
Why would we expect for you to understand what the West have done across the world?
Putting Pinochet in charge in Chile.
Noriega in Nicaragua.
Saddam in Iraq.
Repeated coup attempts in Cuba and Venezuela.
Illegal wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. Millions dead.
That's not even to mention the depravity or the genocide and ethnic cleansing the Americans are up to their neck in in Gaza and the West Bank.
That's solely the Americans before we even dare to consider the Brits, the Germans, the French, the Spanish, the Italians, the Dutch, the Belgian, the Portuguese and their brutal imperialist past.
You are so dishonest and a relentless propagandist. Pick up a history book and educate yourself on your bloodlust and the millions of innocent victims it has left.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:03:59 PMYou can't even work out the quote function.
Why would we expect for you to understand what the West have done across the world?
Putting Pinochet in charge in Chile.
Noriega in Nicaragua.
Saddam in Iraq.
Repeated coup attempts in Cuba and Venezuela.
Illegal wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. Millions dead.
That's not even to mention the depravity or the genocide and ethnic cleansing the Americans are up to their neck in in Gaza and the West Bank.
That's solely the Americans before we even dare to consider the Brits, the Germans, the French, the Spanish, the Italians, the Dutch, the Belgian, the Portuguese and their brutal imperialist past.
You are so dishonest and a relentless propagandist. Pick up a history book and educate yourself on your bloodlust and the millions of innocent victims it has left.
It's the Russia invades Ukraine thread you moron.
Russia, Ukraine.
None of the above absolves Russia of their crimes or makes their lies true. Only in the mind of a demented tankie.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:35:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:03:59 PMYou can't even work out the quote function.
Why would we expect for you to understand what the West have done across the world?
Putting Pinochet in charge in Chile.
Noriega in Nicaragua.
Saddam in Iraq.
Repeated coup attempts in Cuba and Venezuela.
Illegal wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. Millions dead.
That's not even to mention the depravity or the genocide and ethnic cleansing the Americans are up to their neck in in Gaza and the West Bank.
That's solely the Americans before we even dare to consider the Brits, the Germans, the French, the Spanish, the Italians, the Dutch, the Belgian, the Portuguese and their brutal imperialist past.
You are so dishonest and a relentless propagandist. Pick up a history book and educate yourself on your bloodlust and the millions of innocent victims it has left.
It's the Russia invades Ukraine thread you moron.
Russia, Ukraine.
None of the above absolves Russia of their crimes or makes their lies true. Only in the mind of a demented tankie.
It is and you're calling people who are unequivocal in their condemnation of Putin and Russia as pro Russian propagandists solely because they criticise the West for the role they have played in setting in motion, inflaming and prolonging this conflict.
So in effect you have taken to smearing and dishonesty attributing positions to people because you are unable to debate the actual point. What I have done above is prove you don't engage in good faith. You don't care about Ukraine, you don't care about genocide, ethnic cleansing, sending innocent people to slaughter.
You care only about Western imperialism and you don't have a decent bone in your body so drop the pretence that you give one single f**k about Ukranians when you can't even bring yourself to show any remorse or solidarity with the millions of innocent victims of Western barbarity.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 08:35:26 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:35:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:03:59 PMYou can't even work out the quote function.
Why would we expect for you to understand what the West have done across the world?
Putting Pinochet in charge in Chile.
Noriega in Nicaragua.
Saddam in Iraq.
Repeated coup attempts in Cuba and Venezuela.
Illegal wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. Millions dead.
That's not even to mention the depravity or the genocide and ethnic cleansing the Americans are up to their neck in in Gaza and the West Bank.
That's solely the Americans before we even dare to consider the Brits, the Germans, the French, the Spanish, the Italians, the Dutch, the Belgian, the Portuguese and their brutal imperialist past.
You are so dishonest and a relentless propagandist. Pick up a history book and educate yourself on your bloodlust and the millions of innocent victims it has left.
It's the Russia invades Ukraine thread you moron.
Russia, Ukraine.
None of the above absolves Russia of their crimes or makes their lies true. Only in the mind of a demented tankie.
It is and you're calling people who are unequivocal in their condemnation of Putin and Russia as pro Russian propagandists solely because they criticise the West for the role they have played in setting in motion, inflaming and prolonging this conflict.
So in effect you have taken to smearing and dishonesty attributing positions to people because you are unable to debate the actual point. What I have done above is prove you don't engage in good faith. You don't care about Ukraine, you don't care about genocide, ethnic cleansing, sending innocent people to slaughter.
You care only about Western imperialism and you don't have a decent bone in your body so drop the pretence that you give one single f**k about Ukranians when you can't even bring yourself to show any remorse or solidarity with the millions of innocent victims of Western barbarity.
Three paragraphs of shite to say nothing at all.
You speak with a forked tongue like all tankies. Condemnation out one side of the mouth and lies and excuses and Russian propaganda out the other.
Stick to leeching off Palestinian suffering, no one buys your sympathy for Ukrainians.
U 2 idiots not TV to watch on a Friday nite, give it a rest on here.
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 09:22:01 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 08:35:26 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:35:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:03:59 PMYou can't even work out the quote function.
Why would we expect for you to understand what the West have done across the world?
Putting Pinochet in charge in Chile.
Noriega in Nicaragua.
Saddam in Iraq.
Repeated coup attempts in Cuba and Venezuela.
Illegal wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. Millions dead.
That's not even to mention the depravity or the genocide and ethnic cleansing the Americans are up to their neck in in Gaza and the West Bank.
That's solely the Americans before we even dare to consider the Brits, the Germans, the French, the Spanish, the Italians, the Dutch, the Belgian, the Portuguese and their brutal imperialist past.
You are so dishonest and a relentless propagandist. Pick up a history book and educate yourself on your bloodlust and the millions of innocent victims it has left.
It's the Russia invades Ukraine thread you moron.
Russia, Ukraine.
None of the above absolves Russia of their crimes or makes their lies true. Only in the mind of a demented tankie.
It is and you're calling people who are unequivocal in their condemnation of Putin and Russia as pro Russian propagandists solely because they criticise the West for the role they have played in setting in motion, inflaming and prolonging this conflict.
So in effect you have taken to smearing and dishonesty attributing positions to people because you are unable to debate the actual point. What I have done above is prove you don't engage in good faith. You don't care about Ukraine, you don't care about genocide, ethnic cleansing, sending innocent people to slaughter.
You care only about Western imperialism and you don't have a decent bone in your body so drop the pretence that you give one single f**k about Ukranians when you can't even bring yourself to show any remorse or solidarity with the millions of innocent victims of Western barbarity.
Three paragraphs of shite to say nothing at all.
You speak with a forked tongue like all tankies. Condemnation out one side of the mouth and lies and excuses and Russian propaganda out the other.
Stick to leeching off Palestinian suffering, no one buys your sympathy for Ukrainians.
Another post where you can't bring yourself to condemn Western imperialism for it's war crimes.
So easy to show what a vile propagandist you are. You will more Ukranians to die to date your bloodlust, that's clearly where you get your kicks Goebbels.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 09:38:58 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 09:22:01 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 08:35:26 PMQuote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 06:35:28 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 06:03:59 PMYou can't even work out the quote function.
Why would we expect for you to understand what the West have done across the world?
Putting Pinochet in charge in Chile.
Noriega in Nicaragua.
Saddam in Iraq.
Repeated coup attempts in Cuba and Venezuela.
Illegal wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. Millions dead.
That's not even to mention the depravity or the genocide and ethnic cleansing the Americans are up to their neck in in Gaza and the West Bank.
That's solely the Americans before we even dare to consider the Brits, the Germans, the French, the Spanish, the Italians, the Dutch, the Belgian, the Portuguese and their brutal imperialist past.
You are so dishonest and a relentless propagandist. Pick up a history book and educate yourself on your bloodlust and the millions of innocent victims it has left.
It's the Russia invades Ukraine thread you moron.
Russia, Ukraine.
None of the above absolves Russia of their crimes or makes their lies true. Only in the mind of a demented tankie.
It is and you're calling people who are unequivocal in their condemnation of Putin and Russia as pro Russian propagandists solely because they criticise the West for the role they have played in setting in motion, inflaming and prolonging this conflict.
So in effect you have taken to smearing and dishonesty attributing positions to people because you are unable to debate the actual point. What I have done above is prove you don't engage in good faith. You don't care about Ukraine, you don't care about genocide, ethnic cleansing, sending innocent people to slaughter.
You care only about Western imperialism and you don't have a decent bone in your body so drop the pretence that you give one single f**k about Ukranians when you can't even bring yourself to show any remorse or solidarity with the millions of innocent victims of Western barbarity.
Three paragraphs of shite to say nothing at all.
You speak with a forked tongue like all tankies. Condemnation out one side of the mouth and lies and excuses and Russian propaganda out the other.
Stick to leeching off Palestinian suffering, no one buys your sympathy for Ukrainians.
Another post where you can't bring yourself to condemn Western imperialism for it's war crimes.
So easy to show what a vile propagandist you are. You will more Ukranians to die to date your bloodlust, that's clearly where you get your kicks Goebbels.
Your endless prattling proves my point tankie.
It's the thread on Russia's invasion of Ukraine yet here you are on western imperialism.
Keep on with the self-own. Quite amusing.
Yes. It is this thread and I've noted this is the only thread you care about, Goebbels.
You have nothing to say on Western backed genocide. You just attack people if they are in any way critical of the West, particularly when they support it.
You don't care about war or imperialism. We have firmly established if the West are committed genocide or complicit in it, that doesn't bother you. Nor does innocent Ukranians losing their lives.
The only thing you care about is the Western genociders control the world. Chilling.
Quote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 10:19:26 PMYes. It is this thread and I've noted this is the only thread you care about, Goebbels.
You have nothing to say on Western backed genocide. You just attack people if they are in any way critical of the West, particularly when they support it.
You don't care about war or imperialism. We have firmly established if the West are committed genocide or complicit in it, that doesn't bother you. Nor does innocent Ukranians losing their lives.
The only thing you care about is the Western genociders control the world. Chilling.
You really didn't like it when I pointed out how you leech off Palestinian suffering.
That really cut you to the bone.
Leech. Truth hurts.
The new cold war is here to stay, god only knows why anyone in their right mind would want to die for any of it aside from protecting your homeland for your posterity.
https://news.sky.com/story/germany-introduces-controversial-new-military-service-law-with-powers-including-needs-based-conscription-13479746
Quote from: Banks of the Bann on December 05, 2025, 10:41:10 PMQuote from: Hand of God on December 05, 2025, 10:19:26 PMYes. It is this thread and I've noted this is the only thread you care about, Goebbels.
You have nothing to say on Western backed genocide. You just attack people if they are in any way critical of the West, particularly when they support it.
You don't care about war or imperialism. We have firmly established if the West are committed genocide or complicit in it, that doesn't bother you. Nor does innocent Ukranians losing their lives.
The only thing you care about is the Western genociders control the world. Chilling.
You really didn't like it when I pointed out how you leech off Palestinian suffering.
That really cut you to the bone.
Leech. Truth hurts.
Didn't bother me in the slightest. Unlike you I am not compromised. You can call Russia whatever you like, it's not for me to defend them.
You on the other hand are the one who has to defend imperialism and genocide because you treat these things like football teams not as a moral action.
You are shameless, Goebbels. You can't bring yourself to condemn Western leaders for their explicit support of genocide so anyone who reads your propaganda knows there is nothing sincere there whatsoever. You are utterly incapable of engaging in good faith and you are a very sinister actor and propagandist.