Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022

[Hand of God]

So you actually are a simpleton

As you've not pointed out we're I said they shouldn't be held to account

And continued with explaining who did what!

Children learning first year history know this stuff!

With zero explanation of how this should be fixed other than, there is no simple solution!

Bonkers, the west keep voting in the same people and still getting the same results, rinse repeat.. of course China Russia North Korea have the right formula, dictators, that will continue also, as for the Middle East, no one really, on a world stage, cares it seems..

You're being obtuse here. You have umpteem times now you don't want to talk about accountability. Why not? You can't answer that.

You're throwing North Korea and China in here now. It's not a binary thing. The West is not a superior power, it's actually got a much worse legacy and track record when it comes to war, imperialism and genocide. Our media and our government leaders whitewash it and you seem to be dictating to me now that I am not allowed mention it and when I keep alluding to the fact that don't want to adddress it, you call me a simpleton. I don't why you are so hot headed about pointing out the context of why African countries are war torn and impoverished. Why does stating the reason behind it make you so angry?

[Milltown Row2]

I already know, why do I need to explain why the African countries are at war?

Stating the bleeding obvious will not solve it..

What's going to fix it?

Lenny Henry was explaining how much he thinks is owed for colonialism

Where does that go? Who is paying for that? How will it fix things

[Hand of God]

I already know, why do I need to explain why the African countries are at war?

Stating the bleeding obvious will not solve it..

What's going to fix it?

Lenny Henry was explaining how much he thinks is owed for colonialism

Where does that go? Who is paying for that? How will it fix things

I've told I don't know the answer for that. It's a very complex situation, the legacy or colonialism, the damage it does, the erosion of your culture and values and the dehumanisation is a very difficult and complex thing to turn around - not to mention the pillaging of land and resources and the culture that itself attaches to those who grew up with it.

You can look at the plight of the native Americans or Aboriginals and the fact they have nearly being wiped out to extinction, their cultures and values are dying, they are impoverished, they have little material wealth, they are outsiders in their own native lands. Sometimes you can't undo the damage done by colonialism.

My point is that it is no wonder African countries are the way they are when you look at history of what they have had imposed on them. And it is clear who it is the blame for it and it is the perpetrators have whitewashed it from their history. The Western propaganda machine would put the North Korean one to shame, IMO. With all the heinous legacy, we tell the world we are the good guys and we are here to deliver freedom, democracy and civilisation.

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/22b3b203-27a3-455f-9ed2-ce59622b563f

Ukraine and its European allies are insisting negotiations to end the war with Russia be based on current front lines, after mixed signals from the White House over US President Donald Trump's willingness to endorse Moscow's territorial demands. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and the leaders of nine countries including France, the UK, Germany and Italy, said on Tuesday that rather than Kyiv ceding any further territory to Moscow, "the current line of contact should be the starting point of negotiations". The statement was also signed by European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen. The Financial Times reported that a volatile meeting last week Trump urged Zelenskyy to surrender the entire Donbas region to Russia, although he later endorsed a freeze of the present territorial positions. Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov on Tuesday rejected Trump's idea of an immediate ceasefire, saying it contradicts the understandings reached at a meeting with Russia's President Vladimir Putin in Alaska in August

[Milltown Row2]

I already know, why do I need to explain why the African countries are at war?

Stating the bleeding obvious will not solve it..

What's going to fix it?

Lenny Henry was explaining how much he thinks is owed for colonialism

Where does that go? Who is paying for that? How will it fix things

I've told I don't know the answer for that. It's a very complex situation, the legacy or colonialism, the damage it does, the erosion of your culture and values and the dehumanisation is a very difficult and complex thing to turn around - not to mention the pillaging of land and resources and the culture that itself attaches to those who grew up with it.

You can look at the plight of the native Americans or Aboriginals and the fact they have nearly being wiped out to extinction, their cultures and values are dying, they are impoverished, they have little material wealth, they are outsiders in their own native lands. Sometimes you can't undo the damage done by colonialism.

My point is that it is no wonder African countries are the way they are when you look at history of what they have had imposed on them. And it is clear who it is the blame for it and it is the perpetrators have whitewashed it from their history. The Western propaganda machine would put the North Korean one to shame, IMO. With all the heinous legacy, we tell the world we are the good guys and we are here to deliver freedom, democracy and civilisation.

Stop the blaming as it's done and they won't shoot themselves or pay out..

These countries have been ruined by the pillaging which may take centuries to heal itself, it's on those countries (the West)to build infrastructures in those places that will strengthen their economies increase employment and ask for nothing for it.. but must be purely on the governments visions and not their own.

Giving them money would also be pointless as the governments are corrupt as feck..

Impossible task, people that complain about immigration illegal or legal have to stump up the cash (tax) to pay for it. Good luck getting people to pay for their countries history..

Fix problems at source will automatically reduce immigration, reduce civil wars..

Whatever brainwashing is going on it goes both ways.. the right are brainwashed the left just as much. Pro Russian pro West, anti West etc

[Banks of the Bann]

Right, so finally getting round to the nonsense posted yesterday by that numbSkull HoG.

Btw before I start numbSkull, any update on which treaties with Russia the west/Ukraine have broken? Running away from simple questions as usual?

He won't answer of course just like he won't rebut any of the information below (because he can't). He will however, repeat his assertions endlessly.

So, on to the imaginary 'coup':

1. A coup is a specific thing. Look up the definition. The political change in Ukraine during the Revolution of Dignity was brought about by millions of ordinary Ukrainians. A grassroots revolution. It's striking that it's a tankies wet dream of the masses rising up against oppression but when a real world case actually arises they side with the oppressor. Not surprising really given what they turn a blind eye to world wide when it doesn't suit their ideology.

2. numbSkull states that the US invested 'billions' into his imaginary coup. There is no evidence for this assertion or of CIA involvement. The truth is that the Americans were caught off guard and arrived late to events. numbSkull has previously asserted that John McCain handing out Ham Sandwiches is proof of CIA involvement. Utterly ludicrous.

3. Tankies love to state that Yanukovych was democratically-elected and he was but they seem to think this means that Ukrainians should eat whatever shit he serves up to them over the course of the presidency. Tankies also like to ignore what he did - promised closer economic ties with the EU during campaigning. Negotiated the EU Accession agreement when elected. Put it before parliament. Had it ratified. (No better expression of democracy than that). Went to Vilnius to sign it. Changed his mind under coercion from Putin and stated instead he was going to sign an agreement promising closer economic ties with Russia. Denial of democracy right there at the whim of Putin and Yanukovych. Tankies like to brush past all this. Oh yes and he also stole Billions from the Ukrainian exchequer. Something on it's own that should have seen him booted out, but anyway.

4.  Ukrainians I've spoken to stated that it was a huge disappointment but having developed a certain cynicism regarding their governments, not a huge surprise either. So the protests were small initially. Yanukovych's big mistake was to send the Berkut to smash the f**k out of some students. Badly. Ukrainians are not slaves like the Russians and he had crossed a line that they would not accept. That is when the protests swelled into what they became.

5. Nuland was caught on tape arrogantly discussing who the US would prefer to the Prime Minister. Tankies love to state this as further proof of the US choosing the Ukrainian government. The truth is Yanukovych himself negotiated a deal with the opposition whereby he would remain as president and the opposition choose a Prime Minister.

6. Yanokoych was still president when he chose to flee to Russia. The Ukrainian parliament then voted to remove him from his office. Yes, that's right, a vote. By the representatives of the Ukrainian people in their parliament.

So, no numbSkull it wasn't a coup. And it's not widely accepted that it was or even accepted that it was at all, except in Tankie circles that feed off Russian propaganda videos on YouTube or elsewhere. They are easy meat for Russian propaganda given their ideology.

[gallsman]

He hasn't openly blamed "da dues" yet. Couldn't possibly be Skull.

Nally Stand back from beyond the digital grave perhaps, if he's not already one of the others.

[Banks of the Bann]

He hasn't openly blamed "da dues" yet. Couldn't possibly be Skull.

Nally Stand back from beyond the digital grave perhaps, if he's not already one of the others.

Nah, it's him.

I think he realised open anti-semitism isn't the done thing so decided to reinvent himself.

[armaghniac]

Russia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo

Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.

[JoG2]

Russia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo

Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.

Do you reside in some kind of alternate universe?

[armaghniac]

Russia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo

Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.

Do you reside in some kind of alternate universe?

So when I pointed out the lack of condemnation of Russian blowing up children, this was what you came up with?

[Banks of the Bann]

Russia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo

Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.

Do you reside in some kind of alternate universe?

So when I pointed out the lack of condemnation of Russian blowing up children, this was what you came up with?

Any condemnation of Russia from Connolly always goes like this:

1. I condemn Russia (very briefly)
2. War is bad (warming up now to her favourite topic)
3. The west is at fault for giving Ukraine the weapons to defend itself mixed in with the west is to blame (her favourite topic and the main part of anything she ever has to say about Ukraine).

Russia loves this btw. Useful idiots like Connolly doing their dirty work for them.

[Hand of God]

Russia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo

Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.

Another utterly baseless smear.

[armaghniac]

Russia fires a missile at a Kindergarten
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjpe0193geo

Now if this was in Gaza there would rightly be criticism of it, but little is said about Ukraine, Catherine Connolly will not be condemning it.

Another utterly baseless smear.

OK did she condemn it?

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/7bcc7206-db12-4aab-b84d-7e02e1a1400f

The US is imposing sanctions on Russia's two biggest oil companies, Rosneft and Lukoil, aiming to "degrade" Vladimir Putin's war chest and support Donald Trump's effort to end the war in Ukraine