Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022

[Banks of the Bann]

Some neocons knocking about here.

Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off

Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.

If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.

And you want more of the same.

Ukraine ceased being a democracy a decade ago.

Look into the politics around Viktor Yanukovych and his removal because he had a pro Russia stance and his successors actions in the regions currently at war and then talk about democracy.

Ukraine is a fully functioning democracy.

Victor Yanukovych REMOVED HIMSELF after being impeached by the Ukrainian parliament.

This is the guy who campaigned for election on a pro-EU ticket.
Negotiated an association agreement with the EU.
Put the agreement before parliament and had it ratified.
Went to Vilnius to sign the agreement.
Reneged on everything and betrayed the Ukrainian people he was supposed to be representing.
Set the brutal Berkut and Titushki (paid criminal gangs) on protestors.
Stole billions from the Ukrainian exchequer.

Skull steadfastly refuses to acknowledge any of the above. Any comment yourself?

As for his successors - all democratically elected by the people of Ukraine.

And if you want to have a conversation about the goings on in Donetsk and Luhansk after 2014, I would suggest that it is yourself that needs to "look into" the personalities and actions of the merry band of Donbas criminals and their Kremlin handlers. Start with Igor Girkin and Denis Pushilin. You've never heard of them. Use google.

[Banks of the Bann]

Some neocons knocking about here.

Youse aren't wise... either that or stupid considering we're talking about a potential WW getting kicked off

Supporting the right of a democratic sovereign country to defend itself from an invasion by the dictatorship next door does not make one a neocon.

If a WW does start it'll be because of the failure of the west to stand up to Putin in the previous 2 decades and letting him invade Georgia and Ukraine with no repercussions. Same way the last WW kicked off. Appeasement.

And you want more of the same.

Ukraine ceased being a democracy a decade ago.

Look into the politics around Viktor Yanukovych and his removal because he had a pro Russia stance and his successors actions in the regions currently at war and then talk about democracy.

Viktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.

And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.

You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.

The US and EU did not get rid of Yanukovych. You just say this idiotic stuff and it has no basis in fact or reality. He removed himself and ran back to his master in Moscow after the ultimate betrayal of the people he was supposed to represent. He tried to sell Ukraine back to their centuries old imperial oppressor.

[Banks of the Bann]

Viktor Yanukovych was bringing Ukraine towards the EU until Putin pulled him back into line.

And the US and EU got rid of him and put Poroshenko in his place.

You see that game can be played both ways and back to my point about democracy being all smoke and mirrors.

He ran on a policy of joining the EU and then reneged on that when Putin pulled him back into line.
The US and EU did not get rid of him, the parliament of Ukraine did. The US and EU properly supported the parliament of Ukraine against someone being manipulated by Putin, do you think that they should not have?

Of course they did and nothing to do with their own vested interests.

I've also got a bridge to sell you.

When the big "super powers" have a vested interest in you, be that the US, Russia or whoever democracy is easily manipulated, just as Bolivia and several other Latin American states with oil and Lithium.

The EU wishes to encourage countries in Europe to join, if their people wish to do so. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Lithium or Bolivia.
You seem to think that the EU should repudiate Ukraine because of Putin, it is a bit like saying that you should not associate with a woman because her wife-beating husband does not like it. A shocking point of view.

The will of the Ukrainian people has SFA to do with the current war in their country.

It's a power play by the Russians and the US and NATO and they're caught in the middle.

This will lead to a much larger war and I hope you're so keen to defend democracy that you are prepared to send your wee Johnny off to fight and die for it as I sure as fúck won't.

UK missiles are already landing in Russia so expect an escalation.

This is perhaps the most shocking arrogant post of the whole thread. Total denial of the agency of the Ukrainian people. Everyone expected Ukraine to last 3 weeks max against Russia. Yesterday was Day 1000 of their heroic struggle against their centuries old imperial aggressor. You think you can achieve something like that without any will?

All you've got in your argument is non-specific waffle about US, EU, NATO. Heard it all before from Skull.

[Banks of the Bann]

Say that with a Jim Alister accent

'The Ukrainian people' as if it's one cohesive ethnic group 

You do know its pretty much split down the middle on its eastern/western divide?
 

By this pronouncement you have demonstrated:

1. You know nothing about Ukraine.
2. You have never been to Ukraine.
3. You have never met or spoken to a single Ukrainian from Donetsk, Luhansk, Sumy, Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, Poltava or Kherson.

When you see videos of Ukrainian soldiers on Youtube, x or wherever...what language do you think they are speaking?

[theskull1]

You want them to keep fighting and dying for Zelenskys cause ...... shame on you

Get back to the peace talks is what I'm saying rather than edge us towards a world war

[armaghniac]

You want them to keep fighting and dying for Zelenskys cause .

that would be Zelensky the Russian speaker?

Get back to the peace talks is what I'm saying rather than edge us towards a world war

Peace would be great, the Russians can say when they are going back to their own country.

[Banks of the Bann]

You want them to keep fighting and dying for Zelenskys cause ...... shame on you

Get back to the peace talks is what I'm saying rather than edge us towards a world war

What you're doing and have done since day 1, is place the blame for all of this on the victim, rather than the aggressor Russia. All because you hate the US. 'Zelensky's cause' - ffs you can't help yourself. Zelensky is a rich man and could have just walked out of all this in Feb 2022. Many would have.

How is this 'Zelensky's cause' btw?  - explain that comment with receipts.

I don't buy your crocodile tears for the Ukrainian dead either btw, you've done nothing but spread Russian propaganda on this thread and probably elsewhere since day 1. And like I said before, a propagandist is a small cog in the murder machine. Hope you sleep well at night.

[theskull1]

One side bad other side good

War War War war

The love you have for Ukranians marching to their deaths knows no bounds.

[armaghniac]

One side bad other side good

This we can agree on, the Russians are cùnts.

[Banks of the Bann]

One side bad other side good

War War War war

The love you have for Ukranians marching to their deaths knows no bounds.

One side invaded, other side invader.

Every single Ukrainian death (and Russian for that matter) is on Russia and Putin. And their propagandists.

'Zelensky's cause' - going to explain that comment?

[bennydorano]

https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/russian-rouble-down-by-one-quarter-since-early-august-2024-11-27/

[Wildweasel74]

Who's the local commie on the board?

[theskull1]

I'm sure many here will be hopeful British and European troops will soon be in Ukraine to defend it's bodrer. Your sons and daughters will thank you for listening to Boris Johnson

[Banks of the Bann]

I'm sure many here will be hopeful British and European troops will soon be in Ukraine to defend it's bodrer. Your sons and daughters will thank you for listening to Boris Johnson

Nah, we're actually all just hopeful that one day Russia will stop invading its neighbours, bombing them, deporting them, raping them, kidnapping their children, torturing them, erasing their identities, and so on. Simple enough for you?

p.s. there was no peace deal in 2022. Just another Russian lie you've swallowed, amongst many.   

[theskull1]

Hopefully your sons and daughters will convince Putin to catch himself on.