Do we have it in any other sport? Can you imagine Man Utd with such an advantage? Bayern Munich? Munster (in rugby)? God even Celtic with a whole season of home games in the league and Cup, they'd be unbackable? On top of all this there is economics and convenience for the fans. Is there a work around? Not really. The authorities that be are naturally concerned about making money and making as much as possible. So the chasing bunch will have to just work around this disadvantage each year?
I think it would be better for the game and I don't think Dublin fans would mind if they'd the odd away game during the championship. I think this year if Laois win their game they should have been at home to Dublin. This was a great opportunity to take Dublin out of Croke Park. It was an opportunity to fill Portlaois which rarily if ever happens and would have created a lot of hype around the game. The atmosphere would have been better and it would have looked better on tv.
I'd say if the game happens it will only attract an extra 4 or 5000 to Croke Park max. When you consider the boxes etc extra revenue would be limited.
Also if Dublin get knocked out in Leinster they should be faced with away games like everyone else.
But isn't Parnell Park their home ground..... ::)
Considering the fact the the GAA announced with much fanfare that they had cleared the debt on Croker and they will be due several big pay days with the 1 Direction and Garth Brooks concert the argument for them holding as many matches there as possible doesn't really hold much water anymore. The decision to hold the league semis there this weekend is beyond reason. The fact that the Cork, Mayo and Derry supporters have 2-3 hour trips to make plus associated transport, food etc. costs is a major show of inconsideration by the GAA. In contrast, the average Dub supporter can have the Sunday dinner, out the door and be in Croker inside an hour on public transport. From my information Croke park needs an attendance if at least 30000 to break even, I would be surprised if they came close to that Sunday, especially since Sunday week is Easter where I'd say a lot of people have travel plans made for and won't want to do long trips 2 weekends in a row. Logic would've had the Dublin/Cork game in Portlaoise and Derry/Mayo in Sligo or Cavan, making day trips for all sets of supporters easier along with giving a bit of an economic boost locally. As far as the longer term goes, regardless of what officials say, the Dublin players and supporters regard Croke park as home turf, and that always carries a advantage. Dublin should be made play away more in the Leinster championship. It might actually benefit the players, the supporters might have great day out down the country and the local pubs, shops would get a bit of the cash that normally flows into headquarters and the surrounding area!
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 07, 2014, 08:38:36 PM
But isn't Parnell Park their home ground..... ::)
They can't fill it.... Doesn't have the same attraction as croker ..
They would only get 5-6000 at matches.. Which is average enough attendance
It's such a blatant advantage I cannot understand how they get away with it and how more teams in Leinster don't kick up over it. Everyone knows it is not their official home but sure how many games do you see the Dubs in Parnell each year? 3 or 4 O'Byrne matches? When you have the likes of Jack O 'Connor in the paper there talking about how important it is to get the team up to Croke Park for latter stages of the league as it helps further down the line in the Championship, how it feels and plays differently to every pitch in the country, and this from a Kerryman who's team are in it several times each year! The likes of Longford and Wexford are lambs to the slaughter having to play their LSFC against Dublin there. Different story down the country.
I would hope some pressure builds on this issue at some stage. Imagine in the FA cup if Chelsea got to play all their games at Wembley cos Stamford Bridge was too small?!
I think I've mentioned this once or twice.
The GAA made/make a huge investment into Dublin GAA, they want that investment to make them profits so every advantage will be given to the Dubs. 8 years now since they played a championship game away from home. 8 YEARS!!!!!! Imagine never having an away championship match for 8 years, crazy. That day 8 years ago Longford nearly bet them in Pearse Park, the GAA got a fright and have never let it happen again.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 07, 2014, 10:11:25 PM
I think I've mentioned this once or twice.
The GAA made/make a huge investment into Dublin GAA, they want that investment to make them profits so every advantage will be given to the Dubs. 8 years now since they played a championship game away from home. 8 YEARS!!!!!! Imagine never having an away championship match for 8 years, crazy. That day 8 years ago Longford nearly bet them in Pearse Park, the GAA got a fright and have never let it happen again.
Once or twice, now that's an understatement. :P
It's easy to dismiss Don't Matter as an annoying nutcase, but 8 years...Jesus imagine Mayo not playing outside Castlebar for 8 years in Connacht, holy Christ there'd be uproar from our friends in Sligo, Galway and I wouldn't like to think of what that would do to Rossfan and his blood pressure. ;D
It's beyond belief when you think about it in the cold light of day.There is no justification to it.
My own county like everyone else's are better at home than they are away , if we played the last seven all Ireland finals we were in at McHale park Castlebar , I would put my life on it that we would not be still experiencing a famine.
Croke park should certainly be used for august weekend onwards for championship and I'd have no objection to Dublin using it as their home ground for Leinster championship so long as the were was a home/away alt arrangement with all other counties as in the same as we played Roscommon in McHale last year so this year it will be the Hyde .
Well lads it needs to be sorted, why isn't anyone backing me up? It's always defended even by non Dubs. I regularly am up protesting outside of Croke Park, I have a couple of different banners I use. One is 'stop treating us like the blacks, this is our home too'. You'd think someone in the media would cover it but they're thinking of their pockets also, only pro Dub stories allowed. It's like apartheid around here boys, and I'm the only Nelson Mandela willing to fight.
Dublin should be playing regularly outside Croke park but the turkeys in the Leinster council know where their bread is buttered so won't vote for Christmas.
Someone has to pay for clubhouses in Meath, pitches in Laois and bailouts in Kildare.
I've a pain in my hole going to matches in Croker and much prefer going to away league games
Quote from: heffo on April 07, 2014, 10:56:16 PM
Dublin should be playing regularly outside Croke park but the turkeys in the Leinster council know where their bread is buttered so won't vote for Christmas.
Someone has to pay for clubhouses in Meath, pitches in Laois and bailouts in Kildare.
I've a pain in my hole going to matches in Croker and much prefer going to away league games
This lad is 'well known to gardaí' in Dublin so he likes to participate in his recreational activities down the country under less scrutiny.
Lads, I cannot recall off the top of my head but where do the likes of Meath play the majority of their games the last 10-15 years? My impression is its Croker through double headers and the like. If they were any use it would be nearly as much advantage to them as Dublin. Is it only lowly Carlow , Longford Offaly etc that play mostly down the country?
There was surprise in Dublin that the Leinster Council fixed our Leinster quarter-final for Croke Park this year. Leinster semi-final double bill in Croker makes sense, but the quarter-finals should definitely be played elsewhere, and you would not get anyone from Dublin arguing otherwise.
Have any of the NFL semi-finalists complained about the venue for this week?
Dunno about Mayo, but I bet that Cork and Derry both let HQ know they'd prefer to play in Croker rather than any other neutral venue.
As for the qualifiers, Dublin get treated the same as anyone else, although the fact we are reasonably well supported does rule out some venues.
In 2010 we got lucky twice. Drew Tipp in round 2 and there was a draw as to whether the match would be played in Semple or Croker and we won the draw. R3 the same we won the draw and our match v Armagh was played in Croker rather than Clones (televised draws in both cases, rather than behind closed doors type of draws!).
Previous times we were in the qualifiers in 03 and 04, we played away to Leitrim, neutral venue v Longford and away v Derry (though the latter was moved to Clones).
This is an awful thread. What's the point of it? Shur did it do the Dubs any use between '84 and '94 and '96 and '10.
People are beginning to lose the run of themselves.
F T B, were you in the sunshine too long over the weekend?
Hard to beat beating playing the Dubs in Croke Park ;-)
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/43037000/jpg/_43037129_coleman_dublin300.jpg)
Quote from: highorlow on April 08, 2014, 08:43:08 AM
This is an awful thread. What's the point of it? Shur did it do the Dubs any use between '84 and '94 and '96 and '10.
People are beginning to lose the run of themselves.
F T B, were you in the sunshine too long over the weekend?
What you are forgetting is that Dublin played little or no league (and less championship) games in Croker in a majority of the period(s) you mention. Croke Parks surface during that period would have been similar to grounds around the country, it's not anymore.
As for the point of any thread? There is little or no point to any thread. They are just discussions that mean nothing in the real (GAA) world.
If Dublin are to continue playing their league home matches in Croker then the GAA needs to up its marketing as the crowds this year have been relatively poor. When you consider all the concessions and the cost of opening/lighting the place it can hardly be much more of an earner. Notwithstanding that, the practice of allocating Dublin the same dressing room and the same end of the ground to warm up on needs to stop. There can't be one rule for one and another rule for the other 32.
Mental frailty showing early in the Mayo camp already
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6vpRsq4cG0g/T2eLF0VG5RI/AAAAAAAACVY/tv6zvXXBry8/s1600/Mayo-James-Horan.jpg)
I've got an idea - Lets take all the Dublin games out of Croke Park, lets deprive all the teams that play Dublin in Croke Park of the experience, lets take all the money earned for the GAA by these games out of the funds distributed to all clubs/counties etc outside Dublin and lets see if they prefer Dublin to play in Croke Park or not.
Quote from: bucko on April 07, 2014, 08:43:30 PM
Considering the fact the the GAA announced with much fanfare that they had cleared the debt on Croker and they will be due several big pay days with the 1 Direction and Garth Brooks concert the argument for them holding as many matches there as possible doesn't really hold much water anymore. The decision to hold the league semis there this weekend is beyond reason. The fact that the Cork, Mayo and Derry supporters have 2-3 hour trips to make plus associated transport, food etc. costs is a major show of inconsideration by the GAA. In contrast, the average Dub supporter can have the Sunday dinner, out the door and be in Croker inside an hour on public transport. From my information Croke park needs an attendance if at least 30000 to break even, I would be surprised if they came close to that Sunday, especially since Sunday week is Easter where I'd say a lot of people have travel plans made for and won't want to do long trips 2 weekends in a row. Logic would've had the Dublin/Cork game in Portlaoise and Derry/Mayo in Sligo or Cavan, making day trips for all sets of supporters easier along with giving a bit of an economic boost locally. As far as the longer term goes, regardless of what officials say, the Dublin players and supporters regard Croke park as home turf, and that always carries a advantage. Dublin should be made play away more in the Leinster championship. It might actually benefit the players, the supporters might have great day out down the country and the local pubs, shops would get a bit of the cash that normally flows into headquarters and the surrounding area!
Lads who are ye coddin, this would be a disaster for all concerned.
Most of the jacks have never been outside their home patch, as Dustin said I've never been to Meath. Majority of the unwashed can't read so they'd be bound to get lost. Better off leaving the stretchy faced f**kers to collect their disability payments in peace and spend it in the celtic bar or some other knackerhole off o'connell street.
As for the culchies, sure why would be inviting crime down upon ourselves and what about kids picking up the needles after these lads
Leave well enough alone
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 08, 2014, 10:14:47 AM
Mental frailty showing early in the Mayo camp already
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6vpRsq4cG0g/T2eLF0VG5RI/AAAAAAAACVY/tv6zvXXBry8/s1600/Mayo-James-Horan.jpg)
Think you hit a nerve there....................................
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on April 08, 2014, 10:28:38 AM
I've got an idea - Lets take all the Dublin games out of Croke Park, lets deprive all the teams that play Dublin in Croke Park of the experience, lets take all the money earned for the GAA by these games out of the funds distributed to all clubs/counties etc outside Dublin and lets see if they prefer Dublin to play in Croke Park or not.
Lets put a freeze on payments to Dublin and spread the funds around fairly to other counties until everyone is on a level playing field.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on April 08, 2014, 10:28:38 AM
I've got an idea - Lets take all the Dublin games out of Croke Park, lets deprive all the teams that play Dublin in Croke Park of the experience, lets take all the money earned for the GAA by these games out of the funds distributed to all clubs/counties etc outside Dublin and lets see if they prefer Dublin to play in Croke Park or not.
Experience balls... at this stage most people have been to Croker and we've a multitude of white elephants around the Country that would be only too happy for a full house when Dublin are due to play away so balls to it.
Leinster Semi's and Final and the AI Semi's and Final should be the only games held in Croker!
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 07, 2014, 10:43:19 PM
Well lads it needs to be sorted, why isn't anyone backing me up? It's always defended even by non Dubs. I regularly am up protesting outside of Croke Park, I have a couple of different banners I use. One is 'stop treating us like the blacks, this is our home too'. You'd think someone in the media would cover it but they're thinking of their pockets also, only pro Dub stories allowed. It's like apartheid around here boys, and I'm the only Nelson Mandela willing to fight.
Joke or not, I can do without reading this kind of crap. Casual racism is casual racism, whether it is done in an "ironic" manner or not.
I always thought of the board as the online equivalent of a clubhouse and there is plenty of them up and own the country with foreign born players, kids etc. I don't know how many of those GAA people would feel welcome here. No need for this kind of knuckle dragging.
BTW as a Dub i have no problem travelling down the country for league or champo - had a brilliant time in Longford 04 and the two weekends against Kerry in 01 were classic, despite the result.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 08, 2014, 11:57:06 AM
Joke or not, I can do without reading this kind of crap. Casual racism is casual racism, whether it is done in an "ironic" manner or not.
I always thought of the board as the online equivalent of a clubhouse and there is plenty of them up and own the country with foreign born players, kids etc. I don't know how many of those GAA people would feel welcome here. No need for this kind of knuckle dragging.
BTW as a Dub i have no problem travelling down the country for league or champo - had a brilliant time in Longford 04 and the two weekends against Kerry in 01 were classic, despite the result.
Relax will ya, is today not dole day? You can get your fix later.
So the Dub fans are saying they're happy to move games away from Croke park, are they also happy to spread finances fairly around the country? Are you not embarrassed to have been bought All Irelands?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:03:08 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 08, 2014, 11:57:06 AM
Joke or not, I can do without reading this kind of crap. Casual racism is casual racism, whether it is done in an "ironic" manner or not.
I always thought of the board as the online equivalent of a clubhouse and there is plenty of them up and own the country with foreign born players, kids etc. I don't know how many of those GAA people would feel welcome here. No need for this kind of knuckle dragging.
BTW as a Dub i have no problem travelling down the country for league or champo - had a brilliant time in Longford 04 and the two weekends against Kerry in 01 were classic, despite the result.
Relax will ya, is today not dole day? You can get your fix later.
So the Dub fans are saying they're happy to move games away from Croke park, are they also happy to spread finances fairly around the country? Are you not embarrassed to have been bought All Irelands?
I know I shouldn't respond but this type of talk is just rubbish. Dublin built their teams from underage up and are now reaping the rewards of their WORK. Money (lots of it generated by Dublin) can help if coaching schemes are well organised and the people are there willing to put in the WORK.
I'd be more than confident that if other counties put well organised, costed, plans to the powers that be that they would receive the required funding. Most of us traditionally aren't too fond of the Dubs winning but it's hard to begrudge them, the work that has been put in.
And if some counties spent the money they were getting from Croker on Development work and coaching, instead of building 300,000 seater stadiums in Ballymacroundabout, maybe that would help as well.
Quote from: screenexile on April 08, 2014, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on April 08, 2014, 10:28:38 AM
I've got an idea - Lets take all the Dublin games out of Croke Park, lets deprive all the teams that play Dublin in Croke Park of the experience, lets take all the money earned for the GAA by these games out of the funds distributed to all clubs/counties etc outside Dublin and lets see if they prefer Dublin to play in Croke Park or not.
Experience balls... at this stage most people have been to Croker and we've a multitude of white elephants around the Country that would be only too happy for a full house when Dublin are due to play away so balls to it.
Leinster Semi's and Final and the AI Semi's and Final should be the only games held in Croker!
add double header q/f's to that as well. Huge carrot for alot of teams
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 08, 2014, 12:12:32 PM
I know I shouldn't respond but this type of talk is just rubbish. Dublin built their teams from underage up and are now reaping the rewards of their WORK. Money (lots of it generated by Dublin) can help if coaching schemes are well organised and the people are there willing to put in the WORK.
I'd be more than confident that if other counties put well organised, costed, plans to the powers that be that they would receive the required funding. Most of us traditionally aren't too fond of the Dubs winning but it's hard to begrudge them, the work that has been put in.
I've gone through this all before. The upturn in success at underage that extends to senior is all down to money. Millions upon millions of euros. Was there no underage work done in Dublin prior to the millions arriving? How come they barely won anything for decades at underage and now they're winning all before them, in football and hurling? It's the money pure and simple.
Someone was talking earlier in the thread about having every championship game at home for 8 years. The Mayo lad said they definitely would have won at least 1 All Ireland through that time. Now imagine your own counties, you have every game at home, you're given unlimited funds to set up coaching structures, millions to spend on your senior teams, can afford Olympic gold medalist and World champion boxers to hang out with your teams, you have access to all the best training facilities in the country with more being built, you get the home town decisions from refs etc etc etc.
With all these advantages where do you think your county would be? Be honest, who wouldn't be challenging for All Irelands? Wouldn't you think it's a bit unfair that you receive all this? Have the Dubs no shame?
Serious question (which I know is pointless) but is anyone saying the money *hasn't* helped? What I see being said many times is that yes, investment was made, but it was taken advantage of because Dublin had a plan, and had the wit and wherewithal to put the plan in motion.
Other counties without a clear cogent plan like that seem to squander money on either grandiose but ultimately limited value developments, or on 'expenses' related to preparing senior teams.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:19:31 PM
And if some counties spent the money they were getting from Croker on Development work and coaching, instead of building 300,000 seater stadiums in Ballymacroundabout, maybe that would help as well.
Was the money that was spent on Croke Park just so 1 team could use it as their home ground and others go there when they have the 'honour' of taking on the Dubs or getting to the latter stages of National competitions?
Quote from: J OGorman on April 08, 2014, 09:15:52 AM
Hard to beat beating playing the Dubs in Croke Park ;-)
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/43037000/jpg/_43037129_coleman_dublin300.jpg)
Agreed. Let them play in Croker all they want....
(http://img.rasset.ie/00068ef3-640.jpg)
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:30:08 PM
Serious question (which I know is pointless) but is anyone saying the money *hasn't* helped? What I see being said many times is that yes, investment was made, but it was taken advantage of because Dublin had a plan, and had the wit and wherewithal to put the plan in motion.
Other counties without a clear cogent plan like that seem to squander money on either grandiose but ultimately limited value developments, or on 'expenses' related to preparing senior teams.
You can't compare any money wasted or otherwise in other counties to that received by the Dubs. It's pittance when put side by side. The truth is every single county in Ireland would be challenging for All Irelands if they received the financial support along with other advantages Dublin have received. No one can dispute this.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:31:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:19:31 PM
And if some counties spent the money they were getting from Croker on Development work and coaching, instead of building 300,000 seater stadiums in Ballymacroundabout, maybe that would help as well.
Was the money that was spent on Croke Park just so 1 team could use it as their home ground and others go there when they have the 'honour' of taking on the Dubs or getting to the latter stages of National competitions?
No, and I agree that the Dubs should play some of their games out of Croke Park. I'm a big believer that Croke Park should only be used occasionally for double or triple headers, or else for provincial finals, and All Ireland series matches. There's no reason why Dublin can't play in Portlaoise, Tullamore, Navan or anywhere else. 30k in Portlaoise is way better than 30k in Croke Park.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:35:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:30:08 PM
Serious question (which I know is pointless) but is anyone saying the money *hasn't* helped? What I see being said many times is that yes, investment was made, but it was taken advantage of because Dublin had a plan, and had the wit and wherewithal to put the plan in motion.
Other counties without a clear cogent plan like that seem to squander money on either grandiose but ultimately limited value developments, or on 'expenses' related to preparing senior teams.
You can't compare any money wasted or otherwise in other counties to that received by the Dubs. It's pittance when put side by side. The truth is every single county in Ireland would be challenging for All Irelands if they received the financial support along with other advantages Dublin have received. No one can dispute this.
That's true. But if you can't trust a county to spend €100k properly, how can you trust them to spend €1m?
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:31:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:19:31 PM
And if some counties spent the money they were getting from Croker on Development work and coaching, instead of building 300,000 seater stadiums in Ballymacroundabout, maybe that would help as well.
Was the money that was spent on Croke Park just so 1 team could use it as their home ground and others go there when they have the 'honour' of taking on the Dubs or getting to the latter stages of National competitions?
No, and I agree that the Dubs should play some of their games out of Croke Park. I'm a big believer that Croke Park should only be used occasionally for double or triple headers, or else for provincial finals, and All Ireland series matches. There's no reason why Dublin can't play in Portlaoise, Tullamore, Navan or anywhere else. 30k in Portlaoise is way better than 30k in Croke Park.
Dublin were more than happy to go to Portlaoise last Wednesday night. Not a problem.
Dublin senior footballers.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:36:33 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:35:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:30:08 PM
Serious question (which I know is pointless) but is anyone saying the money *hasn't* helped? What I see being said many times is that yes, investment was made, but it was taken advantage of because Dublin had a plan, and had the wit and wherewithal to put the plan in motion.
Other counties without a clear cogent plan like that seem to squander money on either grandiose but ultimately limited value developments, or on 'expenses' related to preparing senior teams.
You can't compare any money wasted or otherwise in other counties to that received by the Dubs. It's pittance when put side by side. The truth is every single county in Ireland would be challenging for All Irelands if they received the financial support along with other advantages Dublin have received. No one can dispute this.
That's true. But if you can't trust a county to spend €100k properly, how can you trust them to spend €1m?
No other county would get the chance, this plan went through as it was mutually beneficial to the Dubs and HQ. How are other counties meant to compete with this? Look at Offaly, 10 years ago how much would they have beatan Dublin by in hurling? Now what would happen? It's a crazy situation that can't be reversed unless drastic measures are taken.
Antrim hurlers, club and county have availed of this benefit in Ulster championships for years, so why the big deal now?
Quote from: johnneycool on April 08, 2014, 12:46:48 PM
Antrim hurlers, club and county have availed of this benefit in Ulster championships for years, so why the big deal now?
You have no shame.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:45:30 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:36:33 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:35:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:30:08 PM
Serious question (which I know is pointless) but is anyone saying the money *hasn't* helped? What I see being said many times is that yes, investment was made, but it was taken advantage of because Dublin had a plan, and had the wit and wherewithal to put the plan in motion.
Other counties without a clear cogent plan like that seem to squander money on either grandiose but ultimately limited value developments, or on 'expenses' related to preparing senior teams.
You can't compare any money wasted or otherwise in other counties to that received by the Dubs. It's pittance when put side by side. The truth is every single county in Ireland would be challenging for All Irelands if they received the financial support along with other advantages Dublin have received. No one can dispute this.
That's true. But if you can't trust a county to spend €100k properly, how can you trust them to spend €1m?
No other county would get the chance, this plan went through as it was mutually beneficial to the Dubs and HQ. How are other counties meant to compete with this? Look at Offaly, 10 years ago how much would they have beatan Dublin by in hurling? Now what would happen? It's a crazy situation that can't be reversed unless drastic measures are taken.
Offaly have underperformed at underage level for several years, and this is now coming home to roost. The money Dublin have received and invested wisely is irrelevant in terms of the state of Offaly hurling. If Offaly went with a plan and a request for funds from Croke Park, I'd hope they'd get investment too.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:51:26 PM
Offaly have underperformed at underage level for several years, and this is now coming home to roost. The money Dublin have received and invested wisely is irrelevant in terms of the state of Offaly hurling. If Offaly went with a plan and a request for funds from Croke Park, I'd hope they'd get investment too.
Other counties did go with plans and got kicked out the door. I'm sure even Offaly would have done something with 7 million.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:55:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:51:26 PM
Offaly have underperformed at underage level for several years, and this is now coming home to roost. The money Dublin have received and invested wisely is irrelevant in terms of the state of Offaly hurling. If Offaly went with a plan and a request for funds from Croke Park, I'd hope they'd get investment too.
Other counties did go with plans and got kicked out the door. I'm sure even Offaly would have done something with 7 million.
Yeah, we could have build a 45,000 seater stadium in Tullamore. what other counties went with proper, costed coaching plans, and got kicked back?
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:59:34 PM
Yeah, we could have build a 45,000 seater stadium in Tullamore. what other counties went with proper, costed coaching plans, and got kicked back?
Yes, I forget who now, it's been a few years since I heard but a county came with a plan and was told no.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:59:34 PM
Yeah, we could have build a 45,000 seater stadium in Tullamore. what other counties went with proper, costed coaching plans, and got kicked back?
Yes, I forget who now, it's been a few years since I heard but a county came with a plan and was told no.
OK, that's a bit milk and watery. A few years ago a county came with a plan and were told no. If it was a proper, costed plan, with the steps outlined and explained, and it got kicked back then that's not fair. However, if it was a county with a plan to spend a pile of money and "improve standards" then I'd not be surprised if it was kicked back.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 01:16:42 PM
OK, that's a bit milk and watery. A few years ago a county came with a plan and were told no. If it was a proper, costed plan, with the steps outlined and explained, and it got kicked back then that's not fair. However, if it was a county with a plan to spend a pile of money and "improve standards" then I'd not be surprised if it was kicked back.
I'll search for details later but if you think any team would have got close to what Dublin received then you're badly mistaken. Peter quinn spoke of the plan to make profits from Dublin, Seán Kelly did also. This was a plan to invest in Dublin and get returns on that investment. It has left us with the situation that Dublin are not competing on a level playing field.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 01:16:42 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:59:34 PM
Yeah, we could have build a 45,000 seater stadium in Tullamore. what other counties went with proper, costed coaching plans, and got kicked back?
Yes, I forget who now, it's been a few years since I heard but a county came with a plan and was told no.
OK, that's a bit milk and watery. A few years ago a county came with a plan and were told no. If it was a proper, costed plan, with the steps outlined and explained, and it got kicked back then that's not fair. However, if it was a county with a plan to spend a pile of money and "improve standards" then I'd not be surprised if it was kicked back.
I'll let you decide what actually happened AZ.
Four counties made costed, detailed proposals late last year, early this year and all four were successful - Laois, Carlow, Westmeath & Antrim
Quote from: heffo on April 08, 2014, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 01:16:42 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:59:34 PM
Yeah, we could have build a 45,000 seater stadium in Tullamore. what other counties went with proper, costed coaching plans, and got kicked back?
Yes, I forget who now, it's been a few years since I heard but a county came with a plan and was told no.
OK, that's a bit milk and watery. A few years ago a county came with a plan and were told no. If it was a proper, costed plan, with the steps outlined and explained, and it got kicked back then that's not fair. However, if it was a county with a plan to spend a pile of money and "improve standards" then I'd not be surprised if it was kicked back.
I'll let you decide what actually happened AZ.
Four counties made costed, detailed proposals late last year, early this year and all four were successful - Laois, Carlow, Westmeath & Antrim
1 million to split between them, for years barely anything has gone into hurling in these counties. They had to soldier on themselves while the Dubs had paid development officers all over their county.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 01:33:03 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 08, 2014, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 01:16:42 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:59:34 PM
Yeah, we could have build a 45,000 seater stadium in Tullamore. what other counties went with proper, costed coaching plans, and got kicked back?
Yes, I forget who now, it's been a few years since I heard but a county came with a plan and was told no.
OK, that's a bit milk and watery. A few years ago a county came with a plan and were told no. If it was a proper, costed plan, with the steps outlined and explained, and it got kicked back then that's not fair. However, if it was a county with a plan to spend a pile of money and "improve standards" then I'd not be surprised if it was kicked back.
I'll let you decide what actually happened AZ.
Four counties made costed, detailed proposals late last year, early this year and all four were successful - Laois, Carlow, Westmeath & Antrim
1 million to split between them, for years barely anything has gone into hurling in these counties. They had to soldier on themselves while the Dubs had paid development officers all over their county.
It's mind over matter
We don't mind because you don't matter
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:59:34 PM
Yeah, we could have build a 45,000 seater stadium in Tullamore. what other counties went with proper, costed coaching plans, and got kicked back?
Yes, I forget who now, it's been a few years since I heard but a county came with a plan and was told no.
Cameroon perhaps ?
Face it this phantom county doesn't exist
God bless Bertie he was ahead of his time. Bring back the bowl.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 01:24:59 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 01:16:42 PM
OK, that's a bit milk and watery. A few years ago a county came with a plan and were told no. If it was a proper, costed plan, with the steps outlined and explained, and it got kicked back then that's not fair. However, if it was a county with a plan to spend a pile of money and "improve standards" then I'd not be surprised if it was kicked back.
I'll search for details later but if you think any team would have got close to what Dublin received then you're badly mistaken. Peter quinn spoke of the plan to make profits from Dublin, Seán Kelly did also. This was a plan to invest in Dublin and get returns on that investment. It has left us with the situation that Dublin are not competing on a level playing field.
Don't bother. We all know it didn't happen.
Rather than complain about Dublin counties need to get their own houses in order and compete with them. There are plenty of development officers all over the country - are they all being used efficiently or as efficiently as in Dublin? Dublin GAA was pretty much in the doldrums for a long time before they got their act together - only the sheer size of the county meant they were competitive. Dublin have addressed their deficiencies and rightly been backed financially. Good luck to them.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2014, 10:37:27 AM
Quote from: bucko on April 07, 2014, 08:43:30 PM
Considering the fact the the GAA announced with much fanfare that they had cleared the debt on Croker and they will be due several big pay days with the 1 Direction and Garth Brooks concert the argument for them holding as many matches there as possible doesn't really hold much water anymore. The decision to hold the league semis there this weekend is beyond reason. The fact that the Cork, Mayo and Derry supporters have 2-3 hour trips to make plus associated transport, food etc. costs is a major show of inconsideration by the GAA. In contrast, the average Dub supporter can have the Sunday dinner, out the door and be in Croker inside an hour on public transport. From my information Croke park needs an attendance if at least 30000 to break even, I would be surprised if they came close to that Sunday, especially since Sunday week is Easter where I'd say a lot of people have travel plans made for and won't want to do long trips 2 weekends in a row. Logic would've had the Dublin/Cork game in Portlaoise and Derry/Mayo in Sligo or Cavan, making day trips for all sets of supporters easier along with giving a bit of an economic boost locally. As far as the longer term goes, regardless of what officials say, the Dublin players and supporters regard Croke park as home turf, and that always carries a advantage. Dublin should be made play away more in the Leinster championship. It might actually benefit the players, the supporters might have great day out down the country and the local pubs, shops would get a bit of the cash that normally flows into headquarters and the surrounding area!
Lads who are ye coddin, this would be a disaster for all concerned.
Most of the jacks have never been outside their home patch, as Dustin said I've never been to Meath. Majority of the unwashed can't read so they'd be bound to get lost. Better off leaving the stretchy faced f**kers to collect their disability payments in peace and spend it in the celtic bar or some other knackerhole off o'connell street.
As for the culchies, sure why would be inviting crime down upon ourselves and what about kids picking up the needles after these lads
Leave well enough alone
Surely you are fecking joking, or has the smell of silage gone to ones head
(http://listdose.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/john-McEnroe.jpg)
Quote from: INDIANA on April 08, 2014, 01:39:44 PM
It's mind over matter
We don't mind because you don't matter
Of course you don't mind, I'd never accuse a Dub of having morals! Their junkies will rob you on their streets, while their bankers rob you while you sleeps.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 08, 2014, 02:23:39 PM
Don't bother. We all know it didn't happen.
Rather than complain about Dublin counties need to get their own houses in order and compete with them. There are plenty of development officers all over the country - are they all being used efficiently or as efficiently as in Dublin? Dublin GAA was pretty much in the doldrums for a long time before they got their act together - only the sheer size of the county meant they were competitive. Dublin have addressed their deficiencies and rightly been backed financially. Good luck to them.
It did happen.
You completely ignored my response to you earlier pointing out exactly how Dublin have improved in football and hurling. Obviously because there's no way of denying the truth of my statements. Dublin have been bought All Irelands. FACT!!!
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 04:29:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 08, 2014, 01:39:44 PM
It's mind over matter
We don't mind because you don't matter
Of course you don't mind, I'd never accuse a Dub of having morals! Their junkies will rob you on their streets, while their bankers rob you while you sleeps.
No country folk with drug problems or corrupt country bankers or builders ????
You are a complete nut job, you should contact your brethern Parkinson on Twitter there with your concerns, ya know the one who done a few lads out of a job and is running around Newstalk in the capital
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2014, 10:37:27 AM
Quote from: bucko on April 07, 2014, 08:43:30 PM
Considering the fact the the GAA announced with much fanfare that they had cleared the debt on Croker and they will be due several big pay days with the 1 Direction and Garth Brooks concert the argument for them holding as many matches there as possible doesn't really hold much water anymore. The decision to hold the league semis there this weekend is beyond reason. The fact that the Cork, Mayo and Derry supporters have 2-3 hour trips to make plus associated transport, food etc. costs is a major show of inconsideration by the GAA. In contrast, the average Dub supporter can have the Sunday dinner, out the door and be in Croker inside an hour on public transport. From my information Croke park needs an attendance if at least 30000 to break even, I would be surprised if they came close to that Sunday, especially since Sunday week is Easter where I'd say a lot of people have travel plans made for and won't want to do long trips 2 weekends in a row. Logic would've had the Dublin/Cork game in Portlaoise and Derry/Mayo in Sligo or Cavan, making day trips for all sets of supporters easier along with giving a bit of an economic boost locally. As far as the longer term goes, regardless of what officials say, the Dublin players and supporters regard Croke park as home turf, and that always carries a advantage. Dublin should be made play away more in the Leinster championship. It might actually benefit the players, the supporters might have great day out down the country and the local pubs, shops would get a bit of the cash that normally flows into headquarters and the surrounding area!
Lads who are ye coddin, this would be a disaster for all concerned.
Most of the jacks have never been outside their home patch, as Dustin said I've never been to Meath. Majority of the unwashed can't read so they'd be bound to get lost. Better off leaving the stretchy faced f**kers to collect their disability payments in peace and spend it in the celtic bar or some other knackerhole off o'connell street.
As for the culchies, sure why would be inviting crime down upon ourselves and what about kids picking up the needles after these lads
Leave well enough alone
;D
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 08, 2014, 03:48:56 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2014, 10:37:27 AM
Quote from: bucko on April 07, 2014, 08:43:30 PM
Considering the fact the the GAA announced with much fanfare that they had cleared the debt on Croker and they will be due several big pay days with the 1 Direction and Garth Brooks concert the argument for them holding as many matches there as possible doesn't really hold much water anymore. The decision to hold the league semis there this weekend is beyond reason. The fact that the Cork, Mayo and Derry supporters have 2-3 hour trips to make plus associated transport, food etc. costs is a major show of inconsideration by the GAA. In contrast, the average Dub supporter can have the Sunday dinner, out the door and be in Croker inside an hour on public transport. From my information Croke park needs an attendance if at least 30000 to break even, I would be surprised if they came close to that Sunday, especially since Sunday week is Easter where I'd say a lot of people have travel plans made for and won't want to do long trips 2 weekends in a row. Logic would've had the Dublin/Cork game in Portlaoise and Derry/Mayo in Sligo or Cavan, making day trips for all sets of supporters easier along with giving a bit of an economic boost locally. As far as the longer term goes, regardless of what officials say, the Dublin players and supporters regard Croke park as home turf, and that always carries a advantage. Dublin should be made play away more in the Leinster championship. It might actually benefit the players, the supporters might have great day out down the country and the local pubs, shops would get a bit of the cash that normally flows into headquarters and the surrounding area!
Lads who are ye coddin, this would be a disaster for all concerned.
Most of the jacks have never been outside their home patch, as Dustin said I've never been to Meath. Majority of the unwashed can't read so they'd be bound to get lost. Better off leaving the stretchy faced f**kers to collect their disability payments in peace and spend it in the celtic bar or some other knackerhole off o'connell street.
As for the culchies, sure why would be inviting crime down upon ourselves and what about kids picking up the needles after these lads
Leave well enough alone
Surely you are fecking joking, or has the smell of silage gone to ones head
(http://listdose.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/john-McEnroe.jpg)
Silage?? sure the cattle are being let out now.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2014, 10:37:27 AM
Quote from: bucko on April 07, 2014, 08:43:30 PM
Considering the fact the the GAA announced with much fanfare that they had cleared the debt on Croker and they will be due several big pay days with the 1 Direction and Garth Brooks concert the argument for them holding as many matches there as possible doesn't really hold much water anymore. The decision to hold the league semis there this weekend is beyond reason. The fact that the Cork, Mayo and Derry supporters have 2-3 hour trips to make plus associated transport, food etc. costs is a major show of inconsideration by the GAA. In contrast, the average Dub supporter can have the Sunday dinner, out the door and be in Croker inside an hour on public transport. From my information Croke park needs an attendance if at least 30000 to break even, I would be surprised if they came close to that Sunday, especially since Sunday week is Easter where I'd say a lot of people have travel plans made for and won't want to do long trips 2 weekends in a row. Logic would've had the Dublin/Cork game in Portlaoise and Derry/Mayo in Sligo or Cavan, making day trips for all sets of supporters easier along with giving a bit of an economic boost locally. As far as the longer term goes, regardless of what officials say, the Dublin players and supporters regard Croke park as home turf, and that always carries a advantage. Dublin should be made play away more in the Leinster championship. It might actually benefit the players, the supporters might have great day out down the country and the local pubs, shops would get a bit of the cash that normally flows into headquarters and the surrounding area!
Lads who are ye coddin, this would be a disaster for all concerned.
Most of the jacks have never been outside their home patch, as Dustin said I've never been to Meath. Majority of the unwashed can't read so they'd be bound to get lost. Better off leaving the stretchy faced f**kers to collect their disability payments in peace and spend it in the celtic bar or some other knackerhole off o'connell street.
As for the culchies, sure why would be inviting crime down upon ourselves and what about kids picking up the needles after these lads
Leave well enough alone
"stretchy faced f**kers" Haha! Never heard that before and don't know what it means but had a laugh at that!
We'd make bits of them in Navan.
They know it too.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 08, 2014, 10:28:37 PM
We'd make bits of them in Navan.
They know it too.
How would the football go though?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 04:32:33 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 08, 2014, 02:23:39 PM
Don't bother. We all know it didn't happen.
Rather than complain about Dublin counties need to get their own houses in order and compete with them. There are plenty of development officers all over the country - are they all being used efficiently or as efficiently as in Dublin? Dublin GAA was pretty much in the doldrums for a long time before they got their act together - only the sheer size of the county meant they were competitive. Dublin have addressed their deficiencies and rightly been backed financially. Good luck to them.
It did happen.
You completely ignored my response to you earlier pointing out exactly how Dublin have improved in football and hurling. Obviously because there's no way of denying the truth of my statements. Dublin have been bought All Irelands. FACT!!!
It quite simply didn't happen.
As for not responding to your earlier reply to me - it was a complete rant with no facts, just wild allegations. There was no point in replying to it.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:48:53 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 08, 2014, 12:46:48 PM
Antrim hurlers, club and county have availed of this benefit in Ulster championships for years, so why the big deal now?
You have no shame.
????
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:55:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2014, 12:51:26 PM
Offaly have underperformed at underage level for several years, and this is now coming home to roost. The money Dublin have received and invested wisely is irrelevant in terms of the state of Offaly hurling. If Offaly went with a plan and a request for funds from Croke Park, I'd hope they'd get investment too.
Other counties did go with plans and got kicked out the door. I'm sure even Offaly would have done something with 7 million.
how much did Laois get for the redevelopment if OMoore Park ?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 08, 2014, 12:27:39 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 08, 2014, 12:12:32 PM
I know I shouldn't respond but this type of talk is just rubbish. Dublin built their teams from underage up and are now reaping the rewards of their WORK. Money (lots of it generated by Dublin) can help if coaching schemes are well organised and the people are there willing to put in the WORK.
I'd be more than confident that if other counties put well organised, costed, plans to the powers that be that they would receive the required funding. Most of us traditionally aren't too fond of the Dubs winning but it's hard to begrudge them, the work that has been put in.
I've gone through this all before. The upturn in success at underage that extends to senior is all down to money. Millions upon millions of euros. Was there no underage work done in Dublin prior to the millions arriving? How come they barely won anything for decades at underage and now they're winning all before them, in football and hurling? It's the money pure and simple.
Someone was talking earlier in the thread about having every championship game at home for 8 years. The Mayo lad said they definitely would have won at least 1 All Ireland through that time. Now imagine your own counties, you have every game at home, you're given unlimited funds to set up coaching structures, millions to spend on your senior teams, can afford Olympic gold medalist and World champion boxers to hang out with your teams, you have access to all the best training facilities in the country with more being built, you get the home town decisions from refs etc etc etc.
With all these advantages where do you think your county would be? Be honest, who wouldn't be challenging for All Irelands? Wouldn't you think it's a bit unfair that you receive all this? Have the Dubs no shame?
you may need to provide a copy of Bernard Dunnes payslip to back up your affordability argument
So the great Dont Matter has put some figures together for your viewing pleasure. The first table I've done is the money allocated to games development from 2005-2013. This is just a figure for games development, not including team expenses or grants for facilities etc.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/i57yar.jpg)
I think the table speaks for itself, it doesn't need explaining and it's indefensable.
The second set of tables I have done is the results of this money and how it has bought Dublin titles.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2yy1mya.jpg)
Can anyone honestly say that this is fair? 1 team is professional while the rest still have to try and compete on the same playing field. It's a scandal and why is it tolerated? Once we reach 20 years after the money came flooding into Dublin GAA, the number of Provincial and All Ireland titles in both codes will dwarf the figure for the 20 years previous to the windfall.
Of course what he leaves out are the figures for 74 to 85 - for instance 6 Leinster titles in a row, six AllIreland finals in a row and 3 All Ireland titles.
And the figures for say, I dunno, Kerry over the same periods of time.
And also the fact that Dublin has a far bigger population than any other county, thus making his tables completely skewed and irrelevant
And he never comments on the fact that in the years of the biggest allocations 2009 we were beaten by was it 17 points by Kerry in a quarter final, 2008 we were beaten by Tyrone by 12 points in a quarter final, 2007 we were beaten by Kerry by 2 points in a semi final. So going by Dont Matter's "logic" the increased cash must have been making our performances worse, given that there is such a proven link between cash and results.
His logic is "indefensable". Here's a clip of him compiling his stats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M
Somewhere a village is crying out for its idiot.
Seems the Dubs get to decide where their "neutral" venues are in the U21 championship too. Cavan play Dublin in Portlaoise, where of course Dublin have already played 2 games this year and which is probably less than an hour from Dublin. In fact the GAA in general has totally fucked over Cavan this year moving 2 U21 fixtures to Armagh that should have been in Enniskillen. It seems the supporters of smaller counties don't matter anymore, if they ever did.
How many clubs in Dublin?
Quote from: neilthemac on April 12, 2014, 11:37:02 AM
How many clubs in Dublin?
I don't know but some of them have more teams than all the Ros clubs put together.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PM
Of course what he leaves out are the figures for 74 to 85 - for instance 6 Leinster titles in a row, six AllIreland finals in a row and 3 All Ireland titles.
I should have put the same amount of years previous the millions to post the millions on my comparison, that would have been fair but I put 20 years previous and still you aint happy.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PMAnd the figures for say, I dunno, Kerry over the same periods of time.
I'll do the stats for Kerry when you provide the figures that show them receiving more than 1 million per year off the GAA.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PMAnd also the fact that Dublin has a far bigger population than any other county, thus making his tables completely skewed and irrelevant
So Dublin have the population advantage and you still think it's fair they get about 1,500,000 yearly?
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PMAnd he never comments on the fact that in the years of the biggest allocations 2009 we were beaten by was it 17 points by Kerry in a quarter final, 2008 we were beaten by Tyrone by 12 points in a quarter final, 2007 we were beaten by Kerry by 2 points in a semi final. So going by Dont Matter's "logic" the increased cash must have been making our performances worse, given that there is such a proven link between cash and results.
The money in the table is for games development, it doesn't include money for team expenses or anything else. You understand what games development means or do I need to explain it?
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PMHis logic is "indefensable". Here's a clip of him compiling his stats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M
Somewhere a village is crying out for its idiot.
;D Did you make it home yet?
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PM
And also the fact that Dublin has a far bigger population than any other county, thus making his tables completely skewed and irrelevant
That would be the point, would it not?
Dublin owns the GAA
YEAH BABY !!!!
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 12, 2014, 03:20:35 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PM
Of course what he leaves out are the figures for 74 to 85 - for instance 6 Leinster titles in a row, six AllIreland finals in a row and 3 All Ireland titles.
I should have put the same amount of years previous the millions to post the millions on my comparison, that would have been fair but I put 20 years previous and still you aint happy.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PMAnd the figures for say, I dunno, Kerry over the same periods of time.
I'll do the stats for Kerry when you provide the figures that show them receiving more than 1 million per year off the GAA.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PMAnd also the fact that Dublin has a far bigger population than any other county, thus making his tables completely skewed and irrelevant
So Dublin have the population advantage and you still think it's fair they get about 1,500,000 yearly?
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PMAnd he never comments on the fact that in the years of the biggest allocations 2009 we were beaten by was it 17 points by Kerry in a quarter final, 2008 we were beaten by Tyrone by 12 points in a quarter final, 2007 we were beaten by Kerry by 2 points in a semi final. So going by Dont Matter's "logic" the increased cash must have been making our performances worse, given that there is such a proven link between cash and results.
The money in the table is for games development, it doesn't include money for team expenses or anything else. You understand what games development means or do I need to explain it?
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 11, 2014, 08:46:04 PMHis logic is "indefensable". Here's a clip of him compiling his stats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M
Somewhere a village is crying out for its idiot.
;D Did you make it home yet?
The reason I quoted the 70s is to illustrate the point that Dublin were successful in that period without the financial backing that you are so annoyed about, and were unsuccessful between 1995- 2011 with it - thus disproving your point that money buys All Irelands.
I don't have to show Kerry receiving millions from the GAA because I don't claim money buys All Irelands -
you are claiming that, so to prove your point you should be able to show a link between finance and Kerry's dominance. Can you do that? Of course not.
Dublin have an advantage in that there is more people in the county than any other - however, relative to the actual population, our
playing numbers are actually small. The GAA took the decision a long time ago that having a county where over a quarter of the population lives with huge areas completely uninterested in the GAA was unsustainable for the Association as a whole. As you noted yourself, the money is for games development which happens in areas where the games are not popular - not buying All Irelands for the Dublin county team (but if evangelizing the games in areas of the Southside where no hurl or O'Neills size 5 have ever been seen means more players for the county team, than happy days)
QuoteThe money in the table is for games development, it doesn't include money for team expenses or anything else. You understand what games development means or do I need to explain it?
You do realise that you are completely contradicting yourself here? Every county gets money for games development and as I explained above, Dublin happens to need more than any other. But they are also, over the last 25 years, in good years and bad, the biggest revenue generator for the GAA. What has changed in the past five years is the foresight and planning of the county board, neither of those values are exclusive to Dublin - nor can they be bought.
Dublin deserve credit for how they have planned, how they have marshalled their resources and how they are spreading the games into areas they haven't been before. But anyone who believes it was bought for them, or that the current dominance will transform into a permanent hegemony, doesn't know their history,or is a troll or is a moron. Or in Don't Matter's case, all three.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 12:36:33 PM
The reason I quoted the 70s is to illustrate the point that Dublin were successful in that period without the financial backing that you are so annoyed about, and were unsuccessful between 1995- 2011 with it - thus disproving your point that money buys All Irelands.
I don't have to show Kerry receiving millions from the GAA because I don't claim money buys All Irelands - you are claiming that, so to prove your point you should be able to show a link between finance and Kerry's dominance. Can you do that? Of course not.
Dublin have an advantage in that there is more people in the county than any other - however, relative to the actual population, our playing numbers are actually small. The GAA took the decision a long time ago that having a county where over a quarter of the population lives with huge areas completely uninterested in the GAA was unsustainable for the Association as a whole. As you noted yourself, the money is for games development which happens in areas where the games are not popular - not buying All Irelands for the Dublin county team (but if evangelizing the games in areas of the Southside where no hurl or O'Neills size 5 have ever been seen means more players for the county team, than happy days)
Looks like you're a bit slow and can't read very well. You are a Dub so it's not surprising. Don't worry, I'll spell it out for you. ;D
First of all the amount of money going to Dublin is wrong no matter what they're winning. If they're winning nothing or if they're winning everything. Secondly there's nothing wrong with teams being successful as long as it's by fair means ie. nothing wrong with Dublin winning in the 70's or Kerry winning. Thirdly, games development means improving structures and employing development officers to assist clubs and work with underage teams, the improved underage results can be seen in the tables I put up earlier, this leads to the All Irelands that have been won in 2011 and 2013.
Are you following so far? I've tried to make it as easy as I could for you.
I didn't claim money wins you All Irelands, I'm claiming the money Dublin received since 04/05 has bought them numerous titles in hurling and football including 2 senior All Irelands. Is that simple enough for you?
Dublin already have the huge advantage in playing numbers, far more than any other county. Far more clubs also. Does it cost 1.5 million or so per year to get kids from the Southside to see a hurl or O'Neills size 5? :D Is that what you're sticking to?
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 12:36:33 PM
You do realise that you are completely contradicting yourself here? Every county gets money for games development and as I explained above, Dublin happens to need more than any other. But they are also, over the last 25 years, in good years and bad, the biggest revenue generator for the GAA. What has changed in the past five years is the foresight and planning of the county board, neither of those values are exclusive to Dublin - nor can they be bought.
As my earlier table points out, yes every county gets games development funds but Dublin get around 1.5million while the next highest gets around 100,000 while some counties have to make do with 40,000! How do Dublin need it more than everyone else? You think Dublin deserve the special treatment? Dublin make revenue and even more if they're successful, hence why this money was and is given to Dublin.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 12:36:33 PMDublin deserve credit for how they have planned, how they have marshalled their resources and how they are spreading the games into areas they haven't been before. But anyone who believes it was bought for them, or that the current dominance will transform into a permanent hegemony, doesn't know their history,or is a troll or is a moron. Or in Don't Matter's case, all three.
;D They get handed 1.5million for games development per year, even Brian Cowen could marshall those kind of resources. It's indisputable that the current success has been bought for them, undeniable. They never won anything in hurling on their own and now look! I've spelt it out here for you in the simplest terms. Hopefully it wasn't too complicated for you. ;D
Dublin.including Fingal and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, is over three times bigger than the nearest county Cork and 5 times bigger than Galway. When compared with the other counties it is at least ten times bigger, 20 times bigger in a lot of cases. In crude population terms, Dublin needs more than these counties to do the
same work effectively.
Factor in the the competition that GAA has in the capital from other other sports, that are all easily available usually within driving distance. My own home area would be serviced by three GAA clubs - there are at least six soccer teams nearby, one rugby team, the National Aquatic Centre, four or five golf club, three athletic clubs, rowing and canoeing clubs - all within a twenty minute drive from my front door, less if the traffic isn't bad. Other urban areas have the same competition but not to the same extent as Dublin. Rural counties would have far less choice, less competition. Like it or not, a third of the population is based in Dublin - if the GAA does not compete with the other sports it loses a huge swathe of the country's young people. The real figures that are interesting are not crude comparisons of Dublin's spend with other counties which cannot tell the real story, but what other sports are spending in Dublin. But that doesn't suit your narrative.
QuoteSecondly there's nothing wrong with teams being successful as long as it's by fair means ie. nothing wrong with Dublin winning in the 70's or Kerry winning. Thirdly, games development means improving structures and employing development officers to assist clubs and work with underage teams, the improved underage results can be seen in the tables I put up earlier, this leads to the All Irelands that have been won in 2011 and 2013.
So you're saying that improving your results through games development is unfair? Bizarre.
QuoteI didn't claim money wins you All Irelands, I'm claiming the money Dublin received since 04/05 has bought them numerous titles in hurling and football including 2 senior All Irelands. Is that simple enough for you?
You're simple enough for me. That is perhaps the greatest paragraph ever written on this board. Moron.
QuoteDublin already have the huge advantage in playing numbers, far more than any other county. Far more clubs also. Does it cost 1.5 million or so per year to get kids from the Southside to see a hurl or O'Neills size 5? :D Is that what you're sticking to?
As we've discussed before, the playing population is small compared to what it could be. And when you have such a big population to convert to Gaelic Games in order to secure their survival in an urban enviroment with a lot of different competition, then yes I am sticking to it.
QuoteAs my earlier table points out, yes every county gets games development funds but Dublin get around 1.5million while the next highest gets around 100,000 while some counties have to make do with 40,000! How do Dublin need it more than everyone else? You think Dublin deserve the special treatment? Dublin make revenue and even more if they're successful, hence why this money was and is given to Dublin.
You really are a slow learner - Dublin gets more because it has more players than anyone else, Dublin gets more because there is a huge population beyond that who could be players, and this money is spent on on clubs, game development, training squads from u-12s up - all of which other counties do, but a lot of them don;t do it as effectively as Dublin. This feeds into our senior teams and it is possible for every other county to do this. Dublin county board on the other hand, does its own business, sponsorship and revenue deals - a lot of this money is spent on our senior teams. A lot of other counties are looking at this model to emulate it and appoint commercial directors. Fair dues to them if they do.
QuoteThey get handed 1.5million for games development per year, even Brian Cowen could marshall those kind of resources. It's indisputable that the current success has been bought for them, undeniable. They never won anything in hurling on their own and now look! I've spelt it out here for you in the simplest terms.
No they never won anything in hurling - except 6 All Ireland and 24 Leinster titles. And it should have been two more except the team of the late eighties and early nineties ran up against Offaly and Kilkenny sides who were brilliant in the final. You wouldn't remember Bryan McMahon would you? You know nothing about Dublin GAA and yet you spend your days on here trolling about it. What a waste of time.
QuoteHopefully it wasn't too complicated for you. ;D
Nothing you say is complicated. Back under the bridge troll.
(http://www.practicingparents.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/spanker1.jpg)
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 04:26:14 PM
Dublin.including Fingal and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, is over three times bigger than the nearest county Cork and 5 times bigger than Galway. When compared with the other counties it is at least ten times bigger, 20 times bigger in a lot of cases. In crude population terms, Dublin needs more than these counties to do the same work effectively.
;D So Dublin is over three times bigger than the next biggest county, 20 times bigger than many but they still need millions of euro to compete with them? Embarrassing. ;D If you went to school you might have learned some mathemathics, if Dublin is three times bigger than Cork then why don't Cork receive 500,000? Galway 300,000? Don't they have to do the same work effectively?
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 04:26:14 PMFactor in the the competition that GAA has in the capital from other other sports, that are all easily available usually within driving distance. My own home area would be serviced by three GAA clubs - there are at least six soccer teams nearby, one rugby team, the National Aquatic Centre, four or five golf club, three athletic clubs, rowing and canoeing clubs - all within a twenty minute drive from my front door, less if the traffic isn't bad. Other urban areas have the same competition but not to the same extent as Dublin. Rural counties would have far less choice, less competition. Like it or not, a third of the population is based in Dublin - if the GAA does not compete with the other sports it loses a huge swathe of the country's young people. The real figures that are interesting are not crude comparisons of Dublin's spend with other counties which cannot tell the real story, but what other sports are spending in Dublin. But that doesn't suit your narrative.
Every other county competes with other sports, you think it's only hurling and football played outside Dublin? ;D Plus many rural areas have far higher rates of emigration to Dublin. The GAA wasn't set up as a charity to help Dublin you know? I can see where you get confused as the rest of the country is always helping out the Dubs, building methadone clinics, bailing out banks destroyed by your bankers etc etc Every county is meant to be on an equal footing in the GAA.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 04:26:14 PMQuoteSecondly there's nothing wrong with teams being successful as long as it's by fair means ie. nothing wrong with Dublin winning in the 70's or Kerry winning. Thirdly, games development means improving structures and employing development officers to assist clubs and work with underage teams, the improved underage results can be seen in the tables I put up earlier, this leads to the All Irelands that have been won in 2011 and 2013.
So you're saying that improving your results through games development is unfair? Bizarre.
;D No, improving results by receiving 1.5 million per year is unfair. How slow are you?
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 04:26:14 PMQuoteI didn't claim money wins you All Irelands, I'm claiming the money Dublin received since 04/05 has bought them numerous titles in hurling and football including 2 senior All Irelands. Is that simple enough for you?
You're simple enough for me. That is perhaps the greatest paragraph ever written on this board. Moron.
You want be to post up the table of titles won pre money and post money again? I know it's hard to accept but you've won titles unfairly.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 04:26:14 PMQuoteDublin already have the huge advantage in playing numbers, far more than any other county. Far more clubs also. Does it cost 1.5 million or so per year to get kids from the Southside to see a hurl or O'Neills size 5? :D Is that what you're sticking to?
As we've discussed before, the playing population is small compared to what it could be. And when you have such a big population to convert to Gaelic Games in order to secure their survival in an urban enviroment with a lot of different competition, then yes I am sticking to it.
Every county struggles with playing numbers, it's not unique to Dublin and it doesn't justify 1.5million per year. Kilkenny don't have much footballers, should the GAA give them millions to sort it out?
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 04:26:14 PMQuoteAs my earlier table points out, yes every county gets games development funds but Dublin get around 1.5million while the next highest gets around 100,000 while some counties have to make do with 40,000! How do Dublin need it more than everyone else? You think Dublin deserve the special treatment? Dublin make revenue and even more if they're successful, hence why this money was and is given to Dublin.
You really are a slow learner - Dublin gets more because it has more players than anyone else, Dublin gets more because there is a huge population beyond that who could be players, and this money is spent on on clubs, game development, training squads from u-12s up - all of which other counties do, but a lot of them don;t do it as effectively as Dublin. This feeds into our senior teams and it is possible for every other county to do this. Dublin county board on the other hand, does its own business, sponsorship and revenue deals - a lot of this money is spent on our senior teams. A lot of other counties are looking at this model to emulate it and appoint commercial directors. Fair dues to them if they do.
Why should Dublin get 1.5million more than others every year? It's this money that makes Dublins games development and training squads from u12 up better. It's no secret, there's no magic formula, 1.5 million makes it easy to run.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 04:26:14 PMQuoteThey get handed 1.5million for games development per year, even Brian Cowen could marshall those kind of resources. It's indisputable that the current success has been bought for them, undeniable. They never won anything in hurling on their own and now look! I've spelt it out here for you in the simplest terms.
No they never won anything in hurling - except 24 Leinster titles. And it should have been two more except the team of the late eighties and early nineties ran up against Offaly and Kilkenny sides who were brilliant in the final. You wouldn't remember Bryan McMahon would you? You know nothing about Dublin GAA and yet you spend your days on here trolling about it. What a waste of time.
;D This is the best yet, you're the one that knows nothing about Dublin GAA it seems. I said they never won anything in hurling
on their own. Not many players from Dublin in those Leinster title wins was there? Not surprising that you have no shame in claiming them though as you're happy to accept titles bought for you now!
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 04:26:14 PMQuoteHopefully it wasn't too complicated for you. ;D
Nothing you say is complicated. Back under the bridge troll.
Well you seem to be having difficulty understanding anyway, maybe you should go under the bridge to shoot up with some other Dubs instead. ;D
Dublin push with home advantage today.
I wonder where the final is?
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 05:34:48 PM
Dublin push with home advantage today.
I wonder where the final is?
I hear it's a home game for Dublin. You have to feel sorry for the half dozen Cork supporters who made the trip to Croker today. I feel Cork fans (all six of them) did not get behind their team in the second half.
QuoteSo Dublin is over three times bigger than the next biggest county, 20 times bigger than many but they still need millions of euro to compete with them? Embarrassing. ;D
As I said before, Dublin is not using that money as an unfair advantage against other GAA counties - they are using it to compete with soccer, rugby and a lot of different, easily available sports. You are embarrassing.
Quotevery other county competes with other sports, you think it's only hurling and football played outside Dublin? ;D Plus many rural areas have far higher rates of emigration to Dublin.
Then surely Dublin should have more funds to deal with this migration? If you had to do it yourself, you might appreciate a well-run club infrastructure catering for you and your family.
QuoteEvery county struggles with playing numbers, it's not unique to Dublin and it doesn't justify 1.5million per year. Kilkenny don't have much footballers, should the GAA give them millions to sort it out?
Kilkenny does not have a potential playing population in hundreds of thousands. This is foundation level maths. It appears you are as challenged numerically as you are grammatically.
QuoteThe GAA wasn't set up as a charity to help Dublin you know? I can see where you get confused as the rest of the country is always helping out the Dubs, building methadone clinics, bailing out banks destroyed by your bankers etc etc Every county is meant to be on an equal footing in the GAA.
Well if it is that bad, maybe the rural people will stop migrating up here. If you're any kind of example, I doubt it will be adding much to the gene pool.
QuoteQuote
I didn't claim money wins you All Irelands, I'm claiming the money Dublin received since 04/05 has bought them numerous titles in hurling and football including 2 senior All Irelands. Is that simple enough for you?
You're simple enough for me. That is perhaps the greatest paragraph ever written on this board. Moron.
You want be to post up the table of titles won pre money and post money again? I know it's hard to accept but you've won titles unfairly.
You're missing the point, but that is not surprising. Let's spell it out for you - "I'm not saying that money buys titles - I'm saying that the money given to Dublin bought their titles." Genius.
QuoteThis is the best yet, you're the one that knows nothing about Dublin GAA it seems. I said they never won anything in hurling on their own. Not many players from Dublin in those Leinster title wins was there? Not surprising that you have no shame in claiming them though as you're happy to accept titles bought for you now!
I'm sure lads like Lar Foley are resting easy in their graves with your knowledge of their non Dub back ground.
You are a moron. By the way Dublin just came back from a 10 point deficit to beat Cork - money can't buy that.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 13, 2014, 05:46:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2014, 05:34:48 PM
Dublin push with home advantage today.
I wonder where the final is?
I hear it's a home game for Dublin.
Why not play in Clones?
Why would you play a national final anywhere but Croke Park?
Dublin, like every other team, should earn their home comforts
Michael Foley - Sunday Times April 13
SOMEWHERE in the afterburn of the Sky arguments last Sunday evening, the league semi-finals briefly got caught in the smoke. Once Dublin's draw against Tyrone put them through, the talk started about the venues and ended with a familiar conclusion. The Dubs in Croke Park. Again. Everyone back to their place.
After a week where the GAA's allegiance to their fundamental values had been questioned and cross-examined, forgoing the promise of a bigger crowd if they staged both semi-finals in Croke Park and choosing a more democratic, geographical spread seemed a small, worthwhile example of an organisation not driven entirely by profit and loss. The GAA don't need to make that kind of gesture, or spend the next three years apologising for doing a deal with Sky, but taking these games elsewhere could have struck some important blows in a few different ways.
Of the four teams lining out today, only Dublin and Mayo are guaranteed to draw a big crowd. There's all sorts of reasons for that: geography, playing population, public interest, football's status within each county. Derry and Mayo could have been accommodated in a number of grounds in the north-west and midlands. Cork and Dublin as a stand-alone game probably wouldn't trouble the capacity in Tullamore or Portlaoise.
At a time of year when interest in the league starts to ebb at precisely the wrong time for the competition, taking them out of Croke Park also bestows an extra layer of achievement on making the final and increases the incentive to win. Even for teams that make Croke Park every year, getting there should represent a landmark event. When it comes to Dublin, the argument for taking the games on the road goes much deeper.
Since Croke Park's redevelopment was completed a decade ago Dublin's championship games have occupied a unique and cherished place, drawing big crowds that generate the kind of carnival atmosphere and handsome revenue superior to almost anything else before August. Before last year's championship, Jim Gavin remarked that playing all their championship games in Croke Park wasn't that much of an advantage to Dublin. Hadn't Mayo beaten them in 2012? Cork and Meath in 2010? Didn't Tyrone and Kerry administer a string of stern beatings before that?
Apart from the Meath game, all those defeats came in the All-Ireland series. Playing games in Croke Park doesn't give Dublin an edge that translates into All-Irelands, but it has had a definite impact on the Leinster championship. Since Dublin began a run of eight of the past nine Leinster titles in 2005, the past decade has been Dublin's most successful stint in the Leinster championship. Meath, in 2010, are the only team to beat them in Croke Park over the same period. The only time Dublin were forced onto the road, Longford gave them a serious run at Pearse Park in 2006.
Attendances at their games in Croke Park have gradually fallen. Last year Dublin hammered Westmeath in their first Leinster championship game. The attendance in Croke Park was 33,000. Portlaoise holds 30,000. Chances are no one would have beaten Dublin on the road over the years either, but getting them away from their home comforts would offer a jolt of electricity to a significant part of the football championship that currently struggles to muster a pulse.
It's not a move to hobble Dublin either. If anything, it might strengthen them. In 11 away league games across four seasons since 2011, Dublin have won four, drawn three, and shipped three of their four defeats in one year (2012). They have played three qualifiers over the years outside of Croke Park and won them all. Exchanging Croke Park's familiar opulence and comforts in June for a claustrophobic bearpit in the midlands could allow Dublin to test their resolve before facing more stringent opponents later in the year. The Dubs on tour always brought its own excitement over the years as well. These days, those trips are remembered as a faint and distant historical curiosity.
There's also a fundamental issue of fairness. Parnell Park is Dublin's designated county ground, not Croke Park. Every other county outside Leinster must win at least a couple of championship games before getting to Croke Park. In Leinster, first-round games are a standard appetiser on the menu in Croke Park from early June.
Reaching Croke Park should be an achievement itself. No team — including Dublin — should be allowed play in Croke Park without at least winning one championship match. Given that Leinster is dotted with medium-sized grounds crying out for good games, spreading a handful of early-round games across the province makes more sense there than anywhere else.
This year Dublin will play their first-round game against Wicklow or Laois in Croke Park. Laois haven't beaten them there since 2003. Wicklow have never won a championship game against Dublin in Croke Park. It's not about tilting the ground against Dublin. It's about requiring every team, regardless of location or status, to earn the right to play in Croke Park. Maybe a game in Croke Park is fair reward for reaching the top four in Division One. When it comes to championship, Croke Park must always mean more. Much more.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 05:51:51 PM
As I said before, Dublin is not using that money as an unfair advantage against other GAA counties - they are using it to compete with soccer, rugby and a lot of different, easily available sports. You are embarrassing.
This has nothing to do with other sports, this
is Dublin receiving an unfair advantage against other GAA counties. This isn't difficult. ;D
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 05:51:51 PMThen surely Dublin should have more funds to deal with this migration? If you had to do it yourself, you might appreciate a well-run club infrastructure catering for you and your family.
What is this all about? ;D
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 05:51:51 PMKilkenny does not have a potential playing population in hundreds of thousands. This is foundation level maths. It appears you are as challenged numerically as you are grammatically.
Surely Kilkenny need the funds in their fight against other sports? :D Like those kids in South Dublin who never seen an O'Neills size 5, remember them? ;D
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 05:51:51 PMWell if it is that bad, maybe the rural people will stop migrating up here. If you're any kind of example, I doubt it will be adding much to the gene pool.
Well you lot inbreeding hasn't worked out too well! ;D
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 05:51:51 PMYou're missing the point, but that is not surprising. Let's spell it out for you - "I'm not saying that money buys titles - I'm saying that the money given to Dublin bought their titles." Genius.
Money wasn't the reason other teams won titles, money
is the reason Dublin are currently winning titles. Simple. You strung out or something?
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 05:51:51 PMI'm sure lads like Lar Foley are resting easy in their graves with your knowledge of their non Dub back ground.
So how many Dubs were there then? You not a bit embarrassed to be claiming those Leinsters? Of course not. ;D
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 05:51:51 PMYou are a moron. By the way Dublin just came back from a 10 point deficit to beat Cork - money can't buy that.
How many of those Dublin players have come through the multi million euro system? Money buys you lots in an amateur sport!
Let's do this quick - I'll try and leave out big words in case you are confused.
1. Using bold typeface does not make a statement factual.
2. Kilkenny does need funds to promote the GAA - but not as much as Dublin does, because there are a lot more people in Dublin. Forget foundation level - this is remedial. (Oh no, big words!!!)
3. Ah, so you're saying that money does not buy titles for anyone bar the Dublin team post 2011. Yet they were getting the same level of money before that? So were they just bad at spending it, or maybe, just maybe, the current crop of players are a wee bit special, with or without money? As they proved already today. By the way I'm not strung out, but reading your posts is probably like being very high - an initial rush, a fog of confusion, and a very bad comedown.
4. I don't mind being slagged myself, but you are slagging off the achievements of Dublin club hurlers - for instance the 1961 Leinster champions, backboned by St. Vincents men like the Foley brothers, the Fergusons, Noel Drumgoole, Shay Lynch etc. More than happy to claim their achievements for Dublin, as I am with the team that contested two successive Leinster finals in 90 and 91, a time when hurling was truly competitive in Leinster, including a cousin of mine. Lads who don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as a trolling knuckledragger such as yourself, who has zero knowledge of Dublin GAA.
5. As for players who came through the "multi-million euro system", I thought we had agreed that games development money wasn't spent on the senior team? I think every county has the chance and the choice to emulate Dublin's processes. Not that Dublin are the ne plus ultra of football and hurling - sport is a cycle and in a few years time, some other team will have ripped up the blueprint and gone a different way - as Tyrone did in the noughties, as the Northern counties did in the 90's, as Meath did in the late 80s, as Kerry did in the 70s, and the Dubs before them again.
Look them up - you might be surprised what you will learn. Joker and a troll. Back under the bridge with you.
By the way, I agree completely with Mick Foley's article - I'd love to get a few road trips as would a lot of fans I know.
1. Correct but the statement I made was factual, I was just highlighting a key word for you. No need to thank me. ;D
2. So wait, do Dublin need the money because of population or because there's so many sports they have to compete against or because so many areas don't know a football or a hurl? You're confusing yourself with all these excuses. ;D
3. Where did I say post 2011? Did you see my table earlier? Go back and look at it before you embarrass yourself even more than you have.
4. So what you're saying is you're happy to accept the hurling titles won for Dublin by players from around the country. I'm not surprised. :D
5. I said the numbers I posted were just money received for games development, Dublin get more for other areas. So the multi million euro system has been operating since 04/05, most of the Dublin players playing today have gone through the system. Not every county has the chance or choice to emulate Dublin's process, guess why they can't? They don't get 1.5million every year!!!! How are you not getting this? :D Other counties still might win but it's against the odds as Dublin have a huge head start. Spread the money fairly and let everyone compete on a level playing field.
I wouldn't hang out under many bridges in Dublin anyway, certain to get robbed if not much worse!
1. No your statement wasn't factual. As you have a tenuous grasp on reality, this is not surprising.
2. As I've said on numerous occasions during this bizarre debate, Dublin needs more money because it has more players than any other county, but also has a huge non-playing population which the GAA need to get playing. These are two reasons, not excuses. Your entire argument is embarrassing.
3. I saw your table and in my first post on it, told you what was wrong with it. You're grasping for straws now DM.
4. What I actually said was that I was happy to accept the achievements of the 1961 team - who were Dubs. They were also the last team to contest an All Ireland hurling final, Very proud of them actually. You're a disaster DM.
5. Counties don't get 1.5 million a year because they don't have the same population as Dublin, both playing and non-playing. Jesus, you are dim. Like an auld deaf and blind dog, chewing on a chair leg because he thinks it's a bone.
"Dublin bought their titles, Dubs are all drug addicts, Dub bankers wrecked the country.." et cetera, etc cetera repeat ad infinitum.......fade to black
It must be dark down there under the bridge DM.
Quote from: Zulu on April 13, 2014, 05:57:20 PM
Why would you play a national final anywhere but Croke Park?
So what you are saying is only Finals should be played in Croke Park? Any finals played outside Croker would demean the value of the competition. On the other end playing lesser value league games in Croker demeans playing in Croker?
Difficult one to judge - playing the League finals out of Croke Park a few years ago was deemed a disaster in terms of attendance (was it 2006? I think it was Kerry and Donegal? Correct me if I am wrong).
Also remember the 99 final in Pairc Ui Chaoimh dubs v Cork - very poor atmosphere, poor game. Definitely think we could play semi finals out of Croker, but the finals should be there - as a reward for getting there.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 07:25:45 PM
Difficult one to judge - playing the League finals out of Croke Park a few years ago was deemed a disaster in terms of attendance (was it 2006? I think it was Kerry and Donegal? Correct me if I am wrong).
Also remember the 99 final in Pairc Ui Chaoimh dubs v Cork - very poor atmosphere, poor game. Definitely think we could play semi finals out of Croker, but the finals should be there - as a reward for getting there.
Not much of a reward if you have all your games there!
I know but what can you do? Dublin League games in Croke Park are getting an average of (I think) 22,000 people - that is more than double Parnell Park. The hurlers get less of a crowd and they use PP. I used to love the league games in Parnell - it could be a right bear pit - there were a couple of really intense clashes with Tyrone there in the mid noughties that stand out.
there was talk a couple of years ago that the county board had land set aside out near Rathcoole to put a new stadium on - with a 25k capacity, I think. But the fact is Dublin, as a city, probably has too many stadiums already, and the ones it has it can't maintain - thinking of places like Dalymount, Tolka Park - good locations, but falling apart.
I'd say though the attendances haven't been great this year and they seem to debate it every season as to whether it is worth it - the bottom line will rule on this one - if it becomes unfeasible to have league games in Croker it will be back to donnycarney.
1. Of course it's factual, I've even backed it up with data. All you have is some Dublin kids never seen a hurl. ;D
2. Explain to me why you think Antrim don't deserve money similar to that received by Dublin?
3. I've explained why you were wrong. Here's the table again:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2yy1mya.jpg)
As any normal person can see, the results after the millions upon millions of investment has improved greatly. Obviously showing that the millions upon millions of euros have bought Dublin bucket loads of titles.
4. So Dublin didn't win 24 titles on their own as I said in the beginning, you could apologise if you want. ;D
5. Surely Dublin having far more players and far more clubs than anyone else is an advantage? Why should Dublin have the player pool advantage and get 1.5 million yearly? Dublin get far more than 1.5 million also don't you? This is just games development.
I've backed my points up with facts and figures, you're only using the opinions of your drug addled mind. :D
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 13, 2014, 07:51:45 PM
1. Of course it's factual, I've even backed it up with data. All you have is some Dublin kids never seen a hurl. ;D
2. Explain to me why you think Antrim don't deserve money similar to that received by Dublin?
3. I've explained why you were wrong. Here's the table again:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2yy1mya.jpg)
As any normal person can see, the results after the millions upon millions of investment has improved greatly. Obviously showing that the millions upon millions of euros have bought Dublin bucket loads of titles.
4. So Dublin didn't win 24 titles on their own as I said in the beginning, you could apologise if you want. ;D
5. Surely Dublin having far more players and far more clubs than anyone else is an advantage? Why should Dublin have the player pool advantage and get 1.5 million yearly? Dublin get far more than 1.5 million also don't you? This is just games development.
I've backed my points up with facts and figures, you're only using the opinions of your drug addled mind. :D
your big night must have been terrible! Did you even have a big night? Don't frett don't matter, there's plenty of nuns in your boat, you'll be all right! ;)
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 13, 2014, 08:02:47 PM
your big night must have been terrible! Did you even have a big night? Don't frett don't matter, there's plenty of nuns in your boat, you'll be all right! ;)
;D What's this? Are you having the crack with the other lad?
I've nothing to apologise for to a liar like you.
Your tables mean nothing because you have selected an arbitrary cut off point. Your argument is false. Money = achievement, yet you deliberately don't include periods like the fifities (in both hurling and football) and the seventies where success was attained and sustained without this investment.
The money given to Kerry has also increased from the mid 80s, yet you don't argue that it has materially improved their performances in the noughties when they won six All Ireland titles (including 2000). You say that it is the quantity of the money involved that makes the difference, but refuse to accept the logical point that when a county contains nearly 1/3 of the total population it should receive more resources. And even dividing the money on a per capita basis isn't fair because some counties face different challenges - for instance why would we give money to Kilkenny for football development when there is no will within the Kilkenny county board itself to promote football.
Antrim deserve all the money they need to address their own specific needs, to make them more successful and promote the games within a harsh enviroment. They shouldn't receive the same amount of money as Dublin because they don't have the same amount of players nor do they have the same amount of potential players or club members. That's just logic and demographics - neither of which you grasp.
As for Dublin's achievements pre 1950, I think most Dublin fans like me would accept that those teams were not representative of the county. However, it is a measure of the job the county board did (under direction from St. Vincents) to turn that round by the 55 football final and to have a true Dublin team competing. It is actually quite similar to the good job that has been done in the past few years reorganising our minors and U-21s, and that is not about money. That is about being organised and having a plan.
You want reasons for our underachievement in the noughties? A lot of it had to do with a badly run county board not about money.
You'rea joker and a troll. Worse - you know nothing about the GAA. Keep it up - it gets more revealing as you go on. Throw in a few more emoticons while you're at it.
;D I will use more emoticons, thanks. You do owe me an apology as you were wrong, numerous times infact. I haven't lied once either.
I've explained the tables, I'll change it to include the same time before the money and the same time after if you want, as that's fair. Plenty of counties acheived stuff in the past without money, Dublin's current underage dominance is down to money. Fact.
When did Kerry get 1.5million for games development per year? How many titles would they when if they were given it? Dublin does receive more resources as it is, why should they get the extra fund? Why do you continue to see Dublin as a charity case the rest of us should pay for? The same could have been said for Dublin hurling a few years ago, why give them the money when they had no interest?
So Dublin's population is about 1.2 million, while Antrims is about 600,000. Dublin receive 1.5 million in games development fund, how much should Antrim receive? How much do they receive? You're the one with the lack of grasp, except for that needle. :D
So, you'd like to thank the rest of the country for the hurling titles they won for Dublin yes? You should also thank us for the titles you've won in recent years as it's been won with our money!
Your idea of the GAA seems to be about what it can do for Dublin, that's not what the GAA is about. You have a lot to learn son.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 13, 2014, 08:09:05 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 13, 2014, 08:02:47 PM
your big night must have been terrible! Did you even have a big night? Don't frett don't matter, there's plenty of nuns in your boat, you'll be all right! ;)
;D What's this? Are you having the crack with the other lad?
ye bleedinshoer wha! I'm so whacked owavit I'm having visions of Dublin equaling Kerry's 4 in a row and bringing Sam to our new academy in port Laois exclusively used for young footballers born and bread in Laois with aspirations of one day playing for the dubs via the parentage rule. ;D
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 13, 2014, 07:20:39 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 13, 2014, 05:57:20 PM
Why would you play a national final anywhere but Croke Park?
So what you are saying is only Finals should be played in Croke Park? Any finals played outside Croker would demean the value of the competition. On the other end playing lesser value league games in Croker demeans playing in Croker?
Not saying any of that. The All Ireland and national league finals should be played in Croke Park.
Quote from: Zulu on April 13, 2014, 08:42:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 13, 2014, 07:20:39 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 13, 2014, 05:57:20 PM
Why would you play a national final anywhere but Croke Park?
So what you are saying is only Finals should be played in Croke Park? Any finals played outside Croker would demean the value of the competition. On the other end playing lesser value league games in Croker demeans playing in Croker?
do the games from the quarter finals on have to be played in croke park to fall into agreement with the premium tickets?
Not saying any of that. The All Ireland and national league finals should be played in Croke Park.
I think so. Croke Park should host as many big games as possible anyway.
QuoteI will use more emoticons, thanks. You do owe me an apology as you were wrong, numerous times infact. I haven't lied once either.
Let's see if that is true.
QuoteDublin's current underage dominance is down to money. Fact.
That's a lie - you haven't been able to prove it is down to money. Saying something is a fact doesn't make it a fact. Even David Brent knows that.
QuoteWhen did Kerry get 1.5million for games development per year? How many titles would they when if they were given it
Contradicting yourself again DM - you said a page ago that money doesn't buy titles - so why are you implying it would with Kerry? I thought that only worked with Dublin, according to your "logic". Try and keep your story straight. Lie.
QuoteWhy do you continue to see Dublin as a charity case the rest of us should pay for?
Never said that, so we'll call this one a lie as well. All I said that resources should be divided according to need, and as our population.....well, you know the rest.
QuoteThe same could have been said for Dublin hurling a few years ago, why give them the money when they had no interest?
Dublin have always fielded a hurling team - there have been periods where kilkenny have not fielded a football team. Dublin have at different times in their history been competitive at provincial level, especially during the fifties and early sixties, the late eighties and early nineties and now. Kilkenny have never been competitive in football nor wanted to be. There is no equivalence between them. Let's just put this down to your bone laziness and ignorance.
Quoteo Dublin's population is about 1.2 million, while Antrims is about 600,000. Dublin receive 1.5 million in games development fund, how much should Antrim receive? How much do they receive? You're the one with the lack of grasp, except for that needle
Well since you are into crude figures, lets say in Antrim that roughly 300,000 of that population don't want and will never want to play Gaelic games. Could be more actually. And let's say that out of the remaining 300,000 at least half that population through either economic factors (Gaelic games participation tends to skew towards more working class areas in urban settings), societal factors (the latent perceived danger of belonging to a GAA club in a hostile enviroment) sporting factors (preferring soccer or rugby etc) that maybe half that again will not be playing, especially given the isolated nature of the main hurling areas. Factor in again that the Dublin population is actually up around 1.6 million with Fingal and Dun Laoghaire included and that, unlike Antrim, 50% of the population are not hostile to the GAA. so there is a lot more people to be possibly swayed. You can do the maths yourself.
QuoteSo, you'd like to thank the rest of the country for the hurling titles they won for Dublin yes? You should also thank us for the titles you've won in recent years as it's been won with our money!
Another lie - never said anything like this - quote it if I did. If you can stop lying. Oh, i forgot, you can't stop lying or your entire argument falls apart! The titles we won in recent years have been won by Dublin players, matching and beating the best - and unlike yourself, the players of Mayo and Kerry didn't make up false excuses about being beaten by money. They have more self respect - the same self respect Dublin showed when being beaten by Mayo in 2012 - despite us trying to buy the Sam, according to you.
QuoteYour idea of the GAA seems to be about what it can do for Dublin, that's not what the GAA is about. You have a lot to learn son.
My idea of the GAA is love your club, love your county, do your best to contribute. Which has always been the attitude in Dublin GAA. But we can't do anything if your county can't get it together - that's up to you to organize, to improve, to get involved in. That is far more constructive than whinging about people buying titles. Look at what longford U-21s did against us last year - this supposedly invincible machine. You're a pathetic defeatist who'd prefer to blame a county that has three All Irelands in the last thirty years for his woes! Ok, we'll include 83 and say 4. We're the Deathstar and you're the Rebel Alliance. Grow up DM
Oh and by the way, I'm not your son, pal. God forbid - but i wouldn't think a troll like you, beavering away in front of his keyboard all day and night is going to be troubling the gene pool anytime soon.
1. My table proves it's down to money. No lie. FACT.
2. Money hasn't bought titles, as in there has been no money to buy titles until Dublin got their windfall. So if Kerry got 1 million per year even how many titles would they win? They'd even compete in hurling. ;D No lie. FACT.
3. You think Dublin deserves 1.5 million yearly while every other county deserve less than 100,000, so you see Dublin as a special case. No lie. FACT.
4. Dublin showed as much interest as Carlow, Kerry etc in hurling, why not give them some money? Instead it mostly went to Dublin. No lie. FACT.
5. Can't you make the same cuts of population you have in Antrim to Dublin in a lot of those cases? A lot don't want and will never want to play Gaelic games, economic factors, societal factors (drug addiction etc), sporting factors, ;D You've basically made an argument why you think Dublin's fund should be cut.
So Dublin get 1.5 million, surely Antrim should get half that? Quarter that? Last year they got 76,000. Going on all you've mentioned earlier you agree with me that Dublin receiving 1.5 million and Antrim receiving 76,000 is unfair don't you? You'd be hypocritical if you disagree. No lie. FACT.
6. I'm asking if you'd like to thank us, don't you appreciate all the country people winning you a load of titles? How ungrateful of you. I repeat, my table shows that you have been bought titles, including All Irelands. No lie. FACT.
7. You have proven you think Dublin deserve special treatment. No lie. FACT.
8. I think you need some stuff to relax you son. You're getting too worked up over my facts and figures. ;D
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 13, 2014, 09:36:36 PM
1. My table proves it's down to money. No lie. FACT.
2. Money hasn't bought titles, as in there has been no money to buy titles until Dublin got their windfall. So if Kerry got 1 million per year even how many titles would they win? They'd even compete in hurling. ;D No lie. FACT.
3. You think Dublin deserves 1.5 million yearly while every other county deserve less than 100,000, so you see Dublin as a special case. No lie. FACT.
4. Dublin showed as much interest as Carlow, Kerry etc in hurling, why not give them some money? Instead it mostly went to Dublin. No lie. FACT.
5. Can't you make the same cuts of population you have in Antrim to Dublin in a lot of those cases? A lot don't want and will never want to play Gaelic games, economic factors, societal factors (drug addiction etc), sporting factors, ;D You've basically made an argument why you think Dublin's fund should be cut.
So Dublin get 1.5 million, surely Antrim should get half that? Quarter that? Last year they got 76,000. Going on all you've mentioned earlier you agree with me that Dublin receiving 1.5 million and Antrim receiving 76,000 is unfair don't you? You'd be hypocritical if you disagree. No lie. FACT.
6. I'm asking if you'd like to thank us, don't you appreciate all the country people winning you a load of titles? How ungrateful of you. I repeat, my table shows that you have been bought titles, including All Irelands. No lie. FACT.
7. You have proven you think Dublin deserve special treatment. No lie. FACT.
8. I think you need some stuff to relax you son. You're getting too worked up over my facts and figures. ;D
seriously would you not be better off chillin back a bit and enjoying the fantastic football we've had this season so far and especially enjoy the fantastic football played by the dubs over the last 2 seasons. A team full off great sporting characters.
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 13, 2014, 09:57:06 PM
seriously would you not be better off chillin back a bit and enjoying the fantastic football we've had this season so far and especially enjoy the fantastic football played by the dubs over the last 2 seasons. A team full off great sporting characters.
I'm chillin watching the golf!
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 13, 2014, 10:06:25 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 13, 2014, 09:57:06 PM
seriously would you not be better off chillin back a bit and enjoying the fantastic football we've had this season so far and especially enjoy the fantastic football played by the dubs over the last 2 seasons. A team full off great sporting characters.
I'm chillin watching the golf!
and did you enjoy the dubs second half today?
Stop giving this troll oxygen – ignore his posts.
If you're shouting you're losing. You screaming fact doesn't make it a fact, in fact the only fact that we can factually verify, is that you are obsessed with Dublin and quite disturbing with it. fact. Enjoy the golf troll.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 10:28:15 PM
If you're shouting you're losing. You screaming fact doesn't make it a fact, in fact the only fact that we can factually verify, is that you are obsessed with Dublin and quite disturbing with it. fact. Enjoy the golf troll.
Will you cop yourself on and ignore that gobsh*te!
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 13, 2014, 10:28:15 PM
If you're shouting typing you're losing. You screaming fact doesn't make it a fact, in fact the only fact that we can factually verify, is that you are obsessed with Dublin and quite disturbing with it. fact. Enjoy the golf troll.
Fixed that for you pal, no problems.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 07, 2014, 10:33:40 PM
It's easy to dismiss Don't Matter as an annoying nutcase, but 8 years...Jesus imagine Mayo not playing outside Castlebar for 8 years in Connacht, holy Christ there'd be uproar from our friends in Sligo, Galway and I wouldn't like to think of what that would do to Rossfan and his blood pressure. ;D
He'd be ok if ye played forever in Ballagh
It's a different argument to the money thing, but yes there's no doubt that Dublin playing at Croker is an advantage for them. Not just the whole fan thing, but they are so comfortable there. I'm sure the Dubs lads have favourite spots in the dressing room, a favourite jacks, they'll have a routine etc etc. I'm sure the team are delighted to be able to rely on playing in Croker all the time.
Having said all that, I know a lot of Dubs fans would like to experience the provincial venues for championship games. The fact they seem to have to wait for the odd qualifier for it to happen is not their fault really. I've said it before, but 35,000 in Portlaoise would be far better than 40000 in Croker, so I'd love to see Dublin playing in O'Moore Park, Tullamore or Navan. Full houses, even if the full house is only 20k, is much better for atmosphere.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2014, 10:26:49 AM
It's a different argument to the money thing, but yes there's no doubt that Dublin playing at Croker is an advantage for them. Not just the whole fan thing, but they are so comfortable there. I'm sure the Dubs lads have favourite spots in the dressing room, a favourite jacks, they'll have a routine etc etc. I'm sure the team are delighted to be able to rely on playing in Croker all the time.
Having said all that, I know a lot of Dubs fans would like to experience the provincial venues for championship games. The fact they seem to have to wait for the odd qualifier for it to happen is not their fault really. I've said it before, but 35,000 in Portlaoise would be far better than 40000 in Croker, so I'd love to see Dublin playing in O'Moore Park, Tullamore or Navan. Full houses, even if the full house is only 20k, is much better for atmosphere.
favourite spots in dressing rooms, are you serious? Dublin have an advantage in Croker over the past 3 years because they are the best team in the land! From 95 to 2011 the same perceived advantages you flag where there yet Dublin couldn't beat a top team outside of Leinster. There where no cries then about advantages! A lot of sore losers and begrudgers round the country!
I haven't read through the previous pages but I was making this same point last year.
In recent years I've went to a few Leinster games and especially the first round games or the semis the fans of both teams know it's a forgone conclusion and teams like Kildare or Meath seem happy to just come to Croker for the day out and maybe watch a double header.
They don't have that butterflies in their stomach say that Down fans would have when the Ulster champions(whoever they might be) come into their own back yard.
A huge part of winning is in the head and if you go into a game hoping to win you'll more often that not LOSE
The only time I've saw Dublin lose in Croker in Leinster was v Westmeath back when Paudie was manager. I'm glad to hear you AZ say that you'd love to see games played at home for ye.
I'm afraid too many other Leinster county fans can't even see the benefit of a home tie
Can you imagine if Dublin had to travel to Donegal, Tyrone, Derry, Down or even Armagh for a 1st round game in May. Imagine how that would affect their training schedule and their plans to drift along in 2nd gear until the August bank holiday.
Yes you can talk about the money aspect and I think that is very significant as well but until Dublin start putting back to back titles together you can't really have any definite proof that all that money did have such a large impact.
Dublin do draw large crowds into croker and other grounds and like some say, a lot of their REAL fans would love more days out on the road. They do bring good travelling support but few have really not experienced the hostile feeling of being the away team in a tight match.
A very simple question for you Dubs.
If you had to play Donegal in round 1 of Leinster this summer in Croke Park. Would you be worried at all or quite confident of taking them?
Now tell me if it went to a draw and ye had to go to Ballybofey where the support will be 90% Donegal and a small compact pitch. Would you still be so confident?
When this argument is brought up lots of Dublin fans think it doesn't matter that much and that Croke park isn't their home ground anyway. Teams like Kerry, Cork< Mayo and even Tyrone play there often each year now anyway but this doesn't really hold water. The real question is if Dublin had to play any of those teams in their own back yard, with only 5K of their own supporters the game would be much tougher for them.
Yes they have won the odd important match at grounds like Clones but they were not playing Monaghan so it wasn't a home game for anyone.
Back in 1983 Cork came to Croker and got a draw and managed to force the replay to be in Cork. You can look up the score yourselves. :o
In those league games yesterday, should the top 2 teams in the league not have had the option of home advantage.
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 14, 2014, 11:03:54 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2014, 10:26:49 AM
It's a different argument to the money thing, but yes there's no doubt that Dublin playing at Croker is an advantage for them. Not just the whole fan thing, but they are so comfortable there. I'm sure the Dubs lads have favourite spots in the dressing room, a favourite jacks, they'll have a routine etc etc. I'm sure the team are delighted to be able to rely on playing in Croker all the time.
Having said all that, I know a lot of Dubs fans would like to experience the provincial venues for championship games. The fact they seem to have to wait for the odd qualifier for it to happen is not their fault really. I've said it before, but 35,000 in Portlaoise would be far better than 40000 in Croker, so I'd love to see Dublin playing in O'Moore Park, Tullamore or Navan. Full houses, even if the full house is only 20k, is much better for atmosphere.
favourite spots in dressing rooms, are you serious? Dublin have an advantage in Croker over the past 3 years because they are the best team in the land! From 95 to 2011 the same perceived advantages you flag where there yet Dublin couldn't beat a top team outside of Leinster. There where no cries then about advantages! A lot of sore losers and begrudgers round the country!
Absolutely they have been the best. Don't get me wrong. But it is a help to them as well, I'm sure if you've played you know that everyone gets their own little routines which help you on the day of a game. If you are playing all your games in the same stadium, your routine is the same every single day. That helps. There's no doubt Dublin have been excellent the last couple of years, I'm not begrudging them at all. I think you're lumping me in with a few other lads. I've been defending Dublin on this thread :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2014, 11:07:59 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 14, 2014, 11:03:54 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2014, 10:26:49 AM
It's a different argument to the money thing, but yes there's no doubt that Dublin playing at Croker is an advantage for them. Not just the whole fan thing, but they are so comfortable there. I'm sure the Dubs lads have favourite spots in the dressing room, a favourite jacks, they'll have a routine etc etc. I'm sure the team are delighted to be able to rely on playing in Croker all the time.
Having said all that, I know a lot of Dubs fans would like to experience the provincial venues for championship games. The fact they seem to have to wait for the odd qualifier for it to happen is not their fault really. I've said it before, but 35,000 in Portlaoise would be far better than 40000 in Croker, so I'd love to see Dublin playing in O'Moore Park, Tullamore or Navan. Full houses, even if the full house is only 20k, is much better for atmosphere.
favourite spots in dressing rooms, are you serious? Dublin have an advantage in Croker over the past 3 years because they are the best team in the land! From 95 to 2011 the same perceived advantages you flag where there yet Dublin couldn't beat a top team outside of Leinster. There where no cries then about advantages! A lot of sore losers and begrudgers round the country!
Absolutely they have been the best. Don't get me wrong. But it is a help to them as well, I'm sure if you've played you know that everyone gets their own little routines which help you on the day of a game. If you are playing all your games in the same stadium, your routine is the same every single day. That helps. There's no doubt Dublin have been excellent the last couple of years, I'm not begrudging them at all. I think you're lumping me in with a few other lads. I've been defending Dublin on this thread :D
I take your points and they are valid but it could also be argued that teams visiting croker also have an advantage over Dublin, now when I say visiting teams I mean good ones , the likes of kerry Cork Tyrone Mayo etc, these teams can bond together for the occasion and create a siege mentality etc.
croke park is the best playing surface and stadium we have which happens to be in Dublin and it's only right that the big games are played there. We didn't have any advantage over playing Cork Kerry or Mayo there last year. I do agree however the the first couple of rounds in Leinster should be brought round the province. But on most occasions the players of dublins opponents actually want to play in croker. Wexford a couple of years ago being a prime example
You're arguing with the wrong man. I'm just pointing out that I'm 100% sure the Dublin players are very comfortable at this stage in Croker, and their match routines will be set in stone at this stage, which does help.
Now, is it the reason why they are arguably the best team in the game? No.
Does this mean that other teams don't also enjoy playing in Croker? No. I'm sure Kerry, Cork, Kildare, Tyrone and Mayo also have a fairly set routine for Croker at this stage.
Do I feel that provincial games should be played outside Crokers? Yes. As much for the aesthetics as any nefarious reason to see Dublin 'bate down the country'. I remember Dublin playing in Mullingar, Tullamore and Navan, and those were the days I associate with championship. 15-20k people absolutely packing a ground, and the atmosphere buzzing. The travelling hill usually set up behind one of the goals with their noise and colour.
Croker is a fabulous stadium, and I think we should keep it for the big games. As I said, a crowd of 40k can look lost in Croker.
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 14, 2014, 11:05:05 AM
In recent years I've went to a few Leinster games and especially the first round games or the semis the fans of both teams know it's a forgone conclusion and teams like Kildare or Meath seem happy to just come to Croker for the day out and maybe watch a double header.
I'd much prefer for Kildare's Leinster Championship games to be played in provincial grounds. Croke Park has lost all its novelty for me. The atmosphere at those double headers in Croke Park is always dead. There's never more than about 15,000 in for the first match and you spend all of the latter stages out of your seat as the crowd coming in for the second match try to get past you to get to their seats.
Kildare v Westmeath/Louth on 8 June is scheduled for Croke Park which is ridiculous. Tullamore, Portlaoise and Navan are perfect venues for these types of games. The improvements in the road network mean you can be at most other towns in Leinster within an hour or two. Better still enter into home/away agreements for first round and quarter final ties with these counties. The only opposition that Kildare should be brought to Croke Park for is Dublin. We played Meath in Navan a few years ago and there was an electric atmosphere at it.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 14, 2014, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 14, 2014, 11:05:05 AM
In recent years I've went to a few Leinster games and especially the first round games or the semis the fans of both teams know it's a forgone conclusion and teams like Kildare or Meath seem happy to just come to Croker for the day out and maybe watch a double header.
Croke Park has lost all its novelty for me.
Imagine how we feel
Quote from: heffo on April 14, 2014, 11:50:07 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 14, 2014, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 14, 2014, 11:05:05 AM
In recent years I've went to a few Leinster games and especially the first round games or the semis the fans of both teams know it's a forgone conclusion and teams like Kildare or Meath seem happy to just come to Croker for the day out and maybe watch a double header.
Croke Park has lost all its novelty for me.
Imagine how we feel
At least ye tend to win there!
The Dubs are up in arms, they don't like the truth of their success exposed. Dublin's improvement at underage, especially in hurling, reminds me a lot of Michelle Smith. Here's a list of comparisons:
Out of nowhere Michelle started improving her performances hugely.
Out of nowhere Dublin started improving their performances hugely.
Michelle said it was all down to really hard work, a plan put together by her and her coach, the others were just jealous of her success.
Dublin say it was all down to hard work, a plan devised by DCB, the others are just jealous of their success.
It turns out that the reason for Michelles amazing improvement was a shed load of drugs.
It turns out that the reason for Dublin's amazing improvement was a shed load of cash.
In both of these cases we're dealing with cheats, Michelle a drugs cheat and Dublin are financial cheats. Why are they let away with it?
There was a young lad here yesterday trying to defend the millions gone to Dublin GAA. He was sent packing with his tail between his legs as there's no defence for it. Any argument you make for Dublin getting the money can be made in every other county. Even the population one as some counties with half Dublins population are getting nowhere near half their games development fund. The young lad even tried to add 400,000 people onto Dublin's population at one stage he was so desperate. ;D
Look, it's obvious the Dubs will defend this as they're winning All Irelands that they never would have won but why are the rest of the counties not putting a stop to it? Is this an amateur sport or not? How can anyone compete against a professional team?
My defence for it is in my posts, rather than your ramblings. I've been here a lot longer than you troll boy, and I'm not going anywhere.
Are you running out of emoticons?
Oh you make your sheepish return, still sore after the battering you took yesterday. Any semblance of an argument to defend Dublin's cheating has been blown out of the water.
Here's an emoticon for you, it's what I do while reading your posts.
(http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/CBSA/smileyvault-cute-big-smiley-animated-013.gif)
The success of Dublin hurling hasn't come out of nowhere if you'd been following hurling at all.
For the better part of a decade now they've been competitive and winning at Feile, colleges (initially amalgamated), minor and U-21 and granted didn't land an AI at these levels but have got to finals on regular occurrences, getting beat by Galway in U-21 down in Thurles a few years back and beaten in AI minor finals as well.
Quote from: johnneycool on April 14, 2014, 01:13:57 PM
The success of Dublin hurling hasn't come out of nowhere if you'd been following hurling at all.
For the better part of a decade now they've been competitive and winning at Feile, colleges (initially amalgamated), minor and U-21 and granted didn't land an AI at these levels but have got to finals on regular occurrences, getting beat by Galway in U-21 down in Thurles a few years back and beaten in AI minor finals as well.
Have you read this thread? That's exactly what I said, they received games development funds to invest in underage hurling and they seen improvments all the way up the grades and eventually to senior. I think your "for the best part of the decade" fits with the timescale of this table:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/i57yar.jpg)
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 14, 2014, 01:21:32 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 14, 2014, 01:13:57 PM
The success of Dublin hurling hasn't come out of nowhere if you'd been following hurling at all.
For the better part of a decade now they've been competitive and winning at Feile, colleges (initially amalgamated), minor and U-21 and granted didn't land an AI at these levels but have got to finals on regular occurrences, getting beat by Galway in U-21 down in Thurles a few years back and beaten in AI minor finals as well.
Have you read this thread? That's exactly what I said, they received games development funds to invest in underage hurling and they seen improvments all the way up the grades and eventually to senior. I think your "for the best part of the decade" fits with the timescale of this table:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/i57yar.jpg)
so roughly a grand each county per head capita, seems pretty fair by my reckoning!
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 14, 2014, 04:36:52 PM
so roughly a grand each county per head capita, seems pretty fair by my reckoning!
What does this mean? It's befusilating.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 14, 2014, 05:45:26 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 14, 2014, 04:36:52 PM
so roughly a grand each county per head capita, seems pretty fair by my reckoning!
What does this mean? It's befusilating.
dunno what does 'it's befusilating!' mean?
(http://i59.tinypic.com/i57yar.jpg)
In the table who is the second highest and who is the lowest?
It changes most years. Derry got the 2nd highest for about 3 or 4 of the years. A lot of the time bottom spot was shared by a few counties. Actually there's a mistake in my table, last year the bottom was 35,920 and Mayo got that. I don't include teams like London or New York, London only got 3,000 last year.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 14, 2014, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 14, 2014, 11:05:05 AM
In recent years I've went to a few Leinster games and especially the first round games or the semis the fans of both teams know it's a forgone conclusion and teams like Kildare or Meath seem happy to just come to Croker for the day out and maybe watch a double header.
I'd much prefer for Kildare's Leinster Championship games to be played in provincial grounds. Croke Park has lost all its novelty for me. The atmosphere at those double headers in Croke Park is always dead. There's never more than about 15,000 in for the first match and you spend all of the latter stages out of your seat as the crowd coming in for the second match try to get past you to get to their seats.
Kildare v Westmeath/Louth on 8 June is scheduled for Croke Park which is ridiculous. Tullamore, Portlaoise and Navan are perfect venues for these types of games. The improvements in the road network mean you can be at most other towns in Leinster within an hour or two. Better still enter into home/away agreements for first round and quarter final ties with these counties. The only opposition that Kildare should be brought to Croke Park for is Dublin. We played Meath in Navan a few years ago and there was an electric atmosphere at it.
Yeah, that was a Saturday evening wasn't it?
Great buzz around the town.
How could the unfair advantage Dublin currently have in terms of financial clout and funding be rectified to give a more even playing field for all counties?
Quote from: neilthemac on April 17, 2014, 01:10:33 PM
How could the unfair advantage Dublin currently have in terms of financial clout and funding be rectified to give a more even playing field for all counties?
All sponsorship money from each county could go into a central fund which could then be split evenly among the counties?
I'm not sure how that/if would impact the sponsors, they would still want to sponsor Dublin because their logo would still be on the shirts etc
They want to sponsor Dublin because they're successful and why are Dublin successful? What we have is Dublin getting trucks of cash to improve their standards and then when they improve their standards they get huge sponsorship plus the trucks of cash. How much is the AIG deal worth?
It's mental, no one can compete with this. The thing is that the money keeps rolling in from HQ, it's not stopping. Why is this? Haven't they already got enough out of the ten years of unlimited funds? People have to get paid you see, full time officers.
The only way this can be sorted at this stage is to split Dublin, it's gone too far. It's the only option we have unless we ignore it and let one team buy trophies. Make our great games amateur again, split the professional county!
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 17, 2014, 01:56:04 PM
They want to sponsor Dublin because they're successful and why are Dublin successful? What we have is Dublin getting trucks of cash to improve their standards and then when they improve their standards they get huge sponsorship plus the trucks of cash. How much is the AIG deal worth?
It's mental, no one can compete with this. The thing is that the money keeps rolling in from HQ, it's not stopping. Why is this? Haven't they already got enough out of the ten years of unlimited funds? People have to get paid you see, full time officers.
The only way this can be sorted at this stage is to split Dublin, it's gone too far. It's the only option we have unless we ignore it and let one team buy trophies. Make our great games amateur again, split the professional county!
And at the same time merge counties to make them stronger. Laois/Carlow merger would be nice for example.
Would be a serious contender for AI win imo. People of Laois and Carlow would be ecstatic or would they? ;)
Quote from: Canalman on April 17, 2014, 02:17:53 PM
. Laois/Carlow merger would be nice for example.
Would be a serious contender for AI win imo. People of Laois and Carlow would be ecstatic or would they? ;)
Would be a way for Liam o'Neill and his FRC to get 8 Counties in each Province -
Merge Fermanagh/Monaghan and you have 8 in Ullster
Divide Galway( City/West and East) and you have 8 in Connacht(incl NY)
Divide Cork ( City/County), Kerry (North/South) and you have 8 in Munster
Divide Dublin (City/Co) and then amalgamate - Carlow/Kilkenny, Wicklow/Wexford, Longford/Westmeath,Laois/Offaly, Meath/Louth and then Kildare alone = 8.
All problems solved and Don't Matter is happy too. :D
Quote from: Canalman on April 17, 2014, 02:17:53 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 17, 2014, 01:56:04 PM
They want to sponsor Dublin because they're successful and why are Dublin successful? What we have is Dublin getting trucks of cash to improve their standards and then when they improve their standards they get huge sponsorship plus the trucks of cash. How much is the AIG deal worth?
It's mental, no one can compete with this. The thing is that the money keeps rolling in from HQ, it's not stopping. Why is this? Haven't they already got enough out of the ten years of unlimited funds? People have to get paid you see, full time officers.
The only way this can be sorted at this stage is to split Dublin, it's gone too far. It's the only option we have unless we ignore it and let one team buy trophies. Make our great games amateur again, split the professional county!
And at the same time merge counties to make them stronger. Laois/Carlow merger would be nice for example.
Would be a serious contender for AI win imo. People of Laois and Carlow would be ecstatic or would they? ;)
Carlaois or Laoisarlow?
;D Deflection. When you know you have no argument this is one of the first ports of call! Bertie was famous for it.
Dublin South, Fingal and Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown. It's divided anyway for local government. It will allow more people a chance to play for their county and will get extra playing in each area. That's what the Dubs claim they want anyway.
Spread the money and it will also make the game fair for all counties competing for Provincial and All Ireland honours in all grades and codes. Teams like Carlow will be able to compete 15 v 15 instead of 15 v millions. It makes sense and everyone will be happy. What's stopping us?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 17, 2014, 05:04:36 PM
;D Deflection. When you know you have no argument this is one of the first ports of call! Bertie was famous for it.
Dublin South, Fingal and Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown. It's divided anyway for local government. It will allow more people a chance to play for their county and will get extra playing in each area. That's what the Dubs claim they want anyway.
Spread the money and it will also make the game fair for all counties competing for Provincial and All Ireland honours in all grades and codes. Teams like Carlow will be able to compete 15 v 15 instead of 15 v millions. It makes sense and everyone will be happy. What's stopping us?
What is stopping us is tradition. Just like tradition is retaining the Provincial championships. The GAA created Croke Park the Super Stadium and to keep this Super Stadium viable they had to fill it. This was grand initially. Culchies like Myself loved going to this super stadium in the early noughties. Ulster Finals, Last 12 qualifier games all almost sold out. This was great. But gradually, Armagh and Tyrone declined. Kerry and Cork waited for the final. Meath and Kildare fell behind Westmeath and Laois. Galway vanished. And Mayo, Well Mayo just did what May did. But there was always Dublin, They could be depended on to fill the coffers. Parnell Park is just a memory of a venue anymore used for the Celebrity Bainisteoir final. The GAA used the League to initially integrate the Dubs into playing league games in Croker. Year in year out the AI winners opened their League campaign playing the Dubs in Croker. Croker is the home of the Dubs, A standing terrace they claim to own and are offended when tickets go to the opposing finalist fans in a AI final. They have their own dressing room and expect to warm up under the Hill. Yes it's nicely set up. No travelling on Match day, No logistics, no cost and I'm just talking about the fans.
So where are we at? Well the Hurling part of this madness will kick in next when the players and crowds come through. We'll have all home games for the Dublin Hurlers as well. The Monopoly starts. The GAA chief who are clearly more interested in keeping the money flowing won't do anything! It's all about making money in this Amateur organisation. Garth Brooks, One Direction, American football,Corporate Boxes,Sky TV all will make allot of money for the GAA. It's a scary place. This reminds me of the Premier League when it came to English Soccer. Teams like Derby, Leeds, Forest, Villa, Everton no longer had a chance of winning a League title. Dublin are going to be the Man Utd. The only difference is at least Man U had/have to play some games away from home and finals in a neutral venue.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 16, 2014, 10:33:15 PM
It changes most years. Derry got the 2nd highest for about 3 or 4 of the years. A lot of the time bottom spot was shared by a few counties. Actually there's a mistake in my table, last year the bottom was 35,920 and Mayo got that. I don't include teams like London or New York, London only got 3,000 last year.
So this is a table you made up? ::)
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 17, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 17, 2014, 05:04:36 PM
;D Deflection. When you know you have no argument this is one of the first ports of call! Bertie was famous for it.
Dublin South, Fingal and Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown. It's divided anyway for local government. It will allow more people a chance to play for their county and will get extra playing in each area. That's what the Dubs claim they want anyway.
Spread the money and it will also make the game fair for all counties competing for Provincial and All Ireland honours in all grades and codes. Teams like Carlow will be able to compete 15 v 15 instead of 15 v millions. It makes sense and everyone will be happy. What's stopping us?
What is stopping us is tradition. Just like tradition is retaining the Provincial championships. The GAA created Croke Park the Super Stadium and to keep this Super Stadium viable they had to fill it. This was grand initially. Culchies like Myself loved going to this super stadium in the early noughties. Ulster Finals, Last 12 qualifier games all almost sold out. This was great. But gradually, Armagh and Tyrone declined. Kerry and Cork waited for the final. Meath and Kildare fell behind Westmeath and Laois. Galway vanished. And Mayo, Well Mayo just did what May did. But there was always Dublin, They could be depended on to fill the coffers. Parnell Park is just a memory of a venue anymore used for the Celebrity Bainisteoir final. The GAA used the League to initially integrate the Dubs into playing league games in Croker. Year in year out the AI winners opened their League campaign playing the Dubs in Croker. Croker is the home of the Dubs, A standing terrace they claim to own and are offended when tickets go to the opposing finalist fans in a AI final. They have their own dressing room and expect to warm up under the Hill. Yes it's nicely set up. No travelling on Match day, No logistics, no cost and I'm just talking about the fans.
So where are we at? Well the Hurling part of this madness will kick in next when the players and crowds come through. We'll have all home games for the Dublin Hurlers as well. The Monopoly starts. The GAA chief who are clearly more interested in keeping the money flowing won't do anything! It's all about making money in this Amateur organisation. Garth Brooks, One Direction, American football,Corporate Boxes,Sky TV all will make allot of money for the GAA. It's a scary place. This reminds me of the Premier League when it came to English Soccer. Teams like Derby, Leeds, Forest, Villa, Everton no longer had a chance of winning a League title. Dublin are going to be the Man Utd. The only difference is at least Man U had/have to play some games away from home and finals in a neutral venue.
your first paragraph is very anti Dublin in its sentiments. Would you not be better at delivering a non biased argument ?
Quote from: Tubberman on April 17, 2014, 01:14:46 PM
Quote from: neilthemac on April 17, 2014, 01:10:33 PM
How could the unfair advantage Dublin currently have in terms of financial clout and funding be rectified to give a more even playing field for all counties?
All sponsorship money from each county could go into a central fund which could then be split evenly among the counties?
I'm not sure how that/if would impact the sponsors, they would still want to sponsor Dublin because their logo would still be on the shirts etc
You could do that, but what if instead of counties using that money for development like they should they use it to pay expenses for imports, use it to buy high powered cars for imported managers, don't manage their finances properly and use it to pay arrears on ESB bills etc
Why should counties who don't even have sponsorship officers and make little or no effort at development piggy back on the good work done by counties who manage their finances prudently?
Quote from: heffo on April 21, 2014, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 17, 2014, 01:14:46 PM
Quote from: neilthemac on April 17, 2014, 01:10:33 PM
How could the unfair advantage Dublin currently have in terms of financial clout and funding be rectified to give a more even playing field for all counties?
All sponsorship money from each county could go into a central fund which could then be split evenly among the counties?
I'm not sure how that/if would impact the sponsors, they would still want to sponsor Dublin because their logo would still be on the shirts etc
You could do that, but what if instead of counties using that money for development like they should they use it to pay expenses for imports, use it to buy high powered cars for imported managers, don't manage their finances properly and use it to pay arrears on ESB bills etc
Why should counties who don't even have sponsorship officers and make little or no effort at development piggy back on the good work done by counties who manage their finances prudently?
Indeed, to make it even fairer we should have every team winning every year, to make sure no one gets ahead of the rest.
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2014, 06:34:54 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 21, 2014, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 17, 2014, 01:14:46 PM
Quote from: neilthemac on April 17, 2014, 01:10:33 PM
How could the unfair advantage Dublin currently have in terms of financial clout and funding be rectified to give a more even playing field for all counties?
All sponsorship money from each county could go into a central fund which could then be split evenly among the counties?
I'm not sure how that/if would impact the sponsors, they would still want to sponsor Dublin because their logo would still be on the shirts etc
You could do that, but what if instead of counties using that money for development like they should they use it to pay expenses for imports, use it to buy high powered cars for imported managers, don't manage their finances properly and use it to pay arrears on ESB bills etc
Why should counties who don't even have sponsorship officers and make little or no effort at development piggy back on the good work done by counties who manage their finances prudently?
Indeed, to make it even fairer we should have every team winning every year, to make sure no one gets ahead of the rest.
Why don't you answer the question instead of being frivolous?
Quote from: heffo on April 21, 2014, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2014, 06:34:54 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 21, 2014, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 17, 2014, 01:14:46 PM
Quote from: neilthemac on April 17, 2014, 01:10:33 PM
How could the unfair advantage Dublin currently have in terms of financial clout and funding be rectified to give a more even playing field for all counties?
All sponsorship money from each county could go into a central fund which could then be split evenly among the counties?
I'm not sure how that/if would impact the sponsors, they would still want to sponsor Dublin because their logo would still be on the shirts etc
You could do that, but what if instead of counties using that money for development like they should they use it to pay expenses for imports, use it to buy high powered cars for imported managers, don't manage their finances properly and use it to pay arrears on ESB bills etc
Why should counties who don't even have sponsorship officers and make little or no effort at development piggy back on the good work done by counties who manage their finances prudently?
Indeed, to make it even fairer we should have every team winning every year, to make sure no one gets ahead of the rest.
Why don't you answer the question instead of being frivolous?
I was agreeing with you.
Competition is the essence of the GAA. Without competition it would be just a very good drinking club.
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2014, 06:55:58 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 21, 2014, 06:51:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2014, 06:34:54 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 21, 2014, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 17, 2014, 01:14:46 PM
Quote from: neilthemac on April 17, 2014, 01:10:33 PM
How could the unfair advantage Dublin currently have in terms of financial clout and funding be rectified to give a more even playing field for all counties?
All sponsorship money from each county could go into a central fund which could then be split evenly among the counties?
I'm not sure how that/if would impact the sponsors, they would still want to sponsor Dublin because their logo would still be on the shirts etc
You could do that, but what if instead of counties using that money for development like they should they use it to pay expenses for imports, use it to buy high powered cars for imported managers, don't manage their finances properly and use it to pay arrears on ESB bills etc
Why should counties who don't even have sponsorship officers and make little or no effort at development piggy back on the good work done by counties who manage their finances prudently?
Indeed, to make it even fairer we should have every team winning every year, to make sure no one gets ahead of the rest.
Why don't you answer the question instead of being frivolous?
I was agreeing with you.
Competition is the essence of the GAA. Without competition it would be just a very good drinking club.
Apols
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 21, 2014, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 17, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 17, 2014, 05:04:36 PM
;D Deflection. When you know you have no argument this is one of the first ports of call! Bertie was famous for it.
Dublin South, Fingal and Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown. It's divided anyway for local government. It will allow more people a chance to play for their county and will get extra playing in each area. That's what the Dubs claim they want anyway.
Spread the money and it will also make the game fair for all counties competing for Provincial and All Ireland honours in all grades and codes. Teams like Carlow will be able to compete 15 v 15 instead of 15 v millions. It makes sense and everyone will be happy. What's stopping us?
What is stopping us is tradition. Just like tradition is retaining the Provincial championships. The GAA created Croke Park the Super Stadium and to keep this Super Stadium viable they had to fill it. This was grand initially. Culchies like Myself loved going to this super stadium in the early noughties. Ulster Finals, Last 12 qualifier games all almost sold out. This was great. But gradually, Armagh and Tyrone declined. Kerry and Cork waited for the final. Meath and Kildare fell behind Westmeath and Laois. Galway vanished. And Mayo, Well Mayo just did what Mayo did. But there was always Dublin, They could be depended on to fill the coffers. Parnell Park is just a memory of a venue anymore used for the Celebrity Bainisteoir final. The GAA used the League to initially integrate the Dubs into playing league games in Croker. Year in year out the AI winners opened their League campaign playing the Dubs in Croker. Croker is the home of the Dubs, A standing terrace they claim to own and are offended when tickets go to the opposing finalist fans in a AI final. They have their own dressing room and expect to warm up under the Hill. Yes it's nicely set up. No travelling on Match day, No logistics, no cost and I'm just talking about the fans.
So where are we at? Well the Hurling part of this madness will kick in next when the players and crowds come through. We'll have all home games for the Dublin Hurlers as well. The Monopoly starts. The GAA chief who are clearly more interested in keeping the money flowing won't do anything! It's all about making money in this Amateur organisation. Garth Brooks, One Direction, American football,Corporate Boxes,Sky TV all will make allot of money for the GAA. It's a scary place. This reminds me of the Premier League when it came to English Soccer. Teams like Derby, Leeds, Forest, Villa, Everton no longer had a chance of winning a League title. Dublin are going to be the Man Utd. The only difference is at least Man U had/have to play some games away from home and finals in a neutral venue.
your first paragraph is very anti Dublin in its sentiments. Would you not be better at delivering a non biased argument ?
It may sound anti-Dublin, but it is just calling things the way they are. Do you disagree with anything in the first paragraph? Look it's not the Dublin fans or players fault they naturally want to win and win all that can be won. Jez they don't care about anybody else and why should they. I'd be the exact same if we were in the same boat. It's all about your county doing well, so you're not bothered when things are going your own way! All of the advantages are with Dublin from the League semi final to the AI Final if they manage to get that far. If you cannot agree on that you have blinkers on! I must say I have been delighted to see the emergence of Dublin as a serious Hurling outfit. It is such a closed shop with the other traditional counties that it refreshing to see a new team in the mix.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 21, 2014, 07:53:45 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 21, 2014, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 17, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 17, 2014, 05:04:36 PM
;D Deflection. When you know you have no argument this is one of the first ports of call! Bertie was famous for it.
Dublin South, Fingal and Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown. It's divided anyway for local government. It will allow more people a chance to play for their county and will get extra playing in each area. That's what the Dubs claim they want anyway.
Spread the money and it will also make the game fair for all counties competing for Provincial and All Ireland honours in all grades and codes. Teams like Carlow will be able to compete 15 v 15 instead of 15 v millions. It makes sense and everyone will be happy. What's stopping us?
What is stopping us is tradition. Just like tradition is retaining the Provincial championships. The GAA created Croke Park the Super Stadium and to keep this Super Stadium viable they had to fill it. This was grand initially. Culchies like Myself loved going to this super stadium in the early noughties. Ulster Finals, Last 12 qualifier games all almost sold out. This was great. But gradually, Armagh and Tyrone declined. Kerry and Cork waited for the final. Meath and Kildare fell behind Westmeath and Laois. Galway vanished. And Mayo, Well Mayo just did what Mayo did. But there was always Dublin, They could be depended on to fill the coffers. Parnell Park is just a memory of a venue anymore used for the Celebrity Bainisteoir final. The GAA used the League to initially integrate the Dubs into playing league games in Croker. Year in year out the AI winners opened their League campaign playing the Dubs in Croker. Croker is the home of the Dubs, A standing terrace they claim to own and are offended when tickets go to the opposing finalist fans in a AI final. They have their own dressing room and expect to warm up under the Hill. Yes it's nicely set up. No travelling on Match day, No logistics, no cost and I'm just talking about the fans.
So where are we at? Well the Hurling part of this madness will kick in next when the players and crowds come through. We'll have all home games for the Dublin Hurlers as well. The Monopoly starts. The GAA chief who are clearly more interested in keeping the money flowing won't do anything! It's all about making money in this Amateur organisation. Garth Brooks, One Direction, American football,Corporate Boxes,Sky TV all will make allot of money for the GAA. It's a scary place. This reminds me of the Premier League when it came to English Soccer. Teams like Derby, Leeds, Forest, Villa, Everton no longer had a chance of winning a League title. Dublin are going to be the Man Utd. The only difference is at least Man U had/have to play some games away from home and finals in a neutral venue.
your first paragraph is very anti Dublin in its sentiments. Would you not be better at delivering a non biased argument ?
It may sound anti-Dublin, but it is just calling things the way they are. Do you disagree with anything in the first paragraph? Look it's not the Dublin fans or players fault they naturally want to win and win all that can be won. Jez they don't care about anybody else and why should they. I'd be the exact same if we were in the same boat. It's all about your county doing well, so you're not bothered when things are going your own way! All of the advantages are with Dublin from the League semi final to the AI Final if they manage to get that far. If you cannot agree on that you have blinkers on! I must say I have been delighted to see the emergence of Dublin as a serious Hurling outfit. It is such a closed shop with the other traditional counties that it refreshing to see a new team in the mix.
what is the alternative to the current arrangement?
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 21, 2014, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 21, 2014, 07:53:45 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 21, 2014, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 17, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 17, 2014, 05:04:36 PM
;D Deflection. When you know you have no argument this is one of the first ports of call! Bertie was famous for it.
Dublin South, Fingal and Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown. It's divided anyway for local government. It will allow more people a chance to play for their county and will get extra playing in each area. That's what the Dubs claim they want anyway.
Spread the money and it will also make the game fair for all counties competing for Provincial and All Ireland honours in all grades and codes. Teams like Carlow will be able to compete 15 v 15 instead of 15 v millions. It makes sense and everyone will be happy. What's stopping us?
What is stopping us is tradition. Just like tradition is retaining the Provincial championships. The GAA created Croke Park the Super Stadium and to keep this Super Stadium viable they had to fill it. This was grand initially. Culchies like Myself loved going to this super stadium in the early noughties. Ulster Finals, Last 12 qualifier games all almost sold out. This was great. But gradually, Armagh and Tyrone declined. Kerry and Cork waited for the final. Meath and Kildare fell behind Westmeath and Laois. Galway vanished. And Mayo, Well Mayo just did what Mayo did. But there was always Dublin, They could be depended on to fill the coffers. Parnell Park is just a memory of a venue anymore used for the Celebrity Bainisteoir final. The GAA used the League to initially integrate the Dubs into playing league games in Croker. Year in year out the AI winners opened their League campaign playing the Dubs in Croker. Croker is the home of the Dubs, A standing terrace they claim to own and are offended when tickets go to the opposing finalist fans in a AI final. They have their own dressing room and expect to warm up under the Hill. Yes it's nicely set up. No travelling on Match day, No logistics, no cost and I'm just talking about the fans.
So where are we at? Well the Hurling part of this madness will kick in next when the players and crowds come through. We'll have all home games for the Dublin Hurlers as well. The Monopoly starts. The GAA chief who are clearly more interested in keeping the money flowing won't do anything! It's all about making money in this Amateur organisation. Garth Brooks, One Direction, American football,Corporate Boxes,Sky TV all will make allot of money for the GAA. It's a scary place. This reminds me of the Premier League when it came to English Soccer. Teams like Derby, Leeds, Forest, Villa, Everton no longer had a chance of winning a League title. Dublin are going to be the Man Utd. The only difference is at least Man U had/have to play some games away from home and finals in a neutral venue.
your first paragraph is very anti Dublin in its sentiments. Would you not be better at delivering a non biased argument ?
It may sound anti-Dublin, but it is just calling things the way they are. Do you disagree with anything in the first paragraph? Look it's not the Dublin fans or players fault they naturally want to win and win all that can be won. Jez they don't care about anybody else and why should they. I'd be the exact same if we were in the same boat. It's all about your county doing well, so you're not bothered when things are going your own way! All of the advantages are with Dublin from the League semi final to the AI Final if they manage to get that far. If you cannot agree on that you have blinkers on! I must say I have been delighted to see the emergence of Dublin as a serious Hurling outfit. It is such a closed shop with the other traditional counties that it refreshing to see a new team in the mix.
what is the alternative to the current arrangement?
Simple, League semi finals in Neutral venues, there are plenty of well equipped venues around the country. Killarney, Castlebar, Limerick, Ennis, Salthill . Leinster games to semi (at least) in Tullamore and Portlaoise.
Teams that can't beat us in CP won't beat us outside there either.
Next we will be banned for being too good.
Has to be the first time in the GAA that a county has to apologise for being better then everyone else
Spread the money lads, just spread the money. It's not difficult. It's too late to make it fair with Dublin in mind, they must be split but give everyone else equal oportunity to improve the standard of Gaelic Games in their counties.
The good news is that this year they've supplied a million for 4 counties to share amongst them to improve hurling standards, the bad news is that there's not only 4 counties who need improvement in their hurling.
The money is there, stop giving the massive majority of it to Dublin and spread it out.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 21, 2014, 10:30:06 PM
Teams that can't beat us in CP won't beat us outside there either.
Next we will be banned for being too good.
Has to be the first time in the GAA that a county has to apologise for being better then everyone else
1,500,000 yearly.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 21, 2014, 10:30:06 PM
Teams that can't beat us in CP won't beat us outside there either.
Next we will be banned for being too good.
Has to be the first time in the GAA that a county has to apologise for being better then everyone else
While I'm not as giddy-upped about this topic as others that line makes no sense. Home advantage regularly helps teams, and it has been proven to do so throughout every sport imaginable. In tight games the crowd can drive a team on and can influence officiating enough to effect the result.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 21, 2014, 09:52:23 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 21, 2014, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 21, 2014, 07:53:45 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 21, 2014, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 17, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 17, 2014, 05:04:36 PM
;D Deflection. When you know you have no argument this is one of the first ports of call! Bertie was famous for it.
Dublin South, Fingal and Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown. It's divided anyway for local government. It will allow more people a chance to play for their county and will get extra playing in each area. That's what the Dubs claim they want anyway.
Spread the money and it will also make the game fair for all counties competing for Provincial and All Ireland honours in all grades and codes. Teams like Carlow will be able to compete 15 v 15 instead of 15 v millions. It makes sense and everyone will be happy. What's stopping us?
What is stopping us is tradition. Just like tradition is retaining the Provincial championships. The GAA created Croke Park the Super Stadium and to keep this Super Stadium viable they had to fill it. This was grand initially. Culchies like Myself loved going to this super stadium in the early noughties. Ulster Finals, Last 12 qualifier games all almost sold out. This was great. But gradually, Armagh and Tyrone declined. Kerry and Cork waited for the final. Meath and Kildare fell behind Westmeath and Laois. Galway vanished. And Mayo, Well Mayo just did what Mayo did. But there was always Dublin, They could be depended on to fill the coffers. Parnell Park is just a memory of a venue anymore used for the Celebrity Bainisteoir final. The GAA used the League to initially integrate the Dubs into playing league games in Croker. Year in year out the AI winners opened their League campaign playing the Dubs in Croker. Croker is the home of the Dubs, A standing terrace they claim to own and are offended when tickets go to the opposing finalist fans in a AI final. They have their own dressing room and expect to warm up under the Hill. Yes it's nicely set up. No travelling on Match day, No logistics, no cost and I'm just talking about the fans.
So where are we at? Well the Hurling part of this madness will kick in next when the players and crowds come through. We'll have all home games for the Dublin Hurlers as well. The Monopoly starts. The GAA chief who are clearly more interested in keeping the money flowing won't do anything! It's all about making money in this Amateur organisation. Garth Brooks, One Direction, American football,Corporate Boxes,Sky TV all will make allot of money for the GAA. It's a scary place. This reminds me of the Premier League when it came to English Soccer. Teams like Derby, Leeds, Forest, Villa, Everton no longer had a chance of winning a League title. Dublin are going to be the Man Utd. The only difference is at least Man U had/have to play some games away from home and finals in a neutral venue.
your first paragraph is very anti Dublin in its sentiments. Would you not be better at delivering a non biased argument ?
It may sound anti-Dublin, but it is just calling things the way they are. Do you disagree with anything in the first paragraph? Look it's not the Dublin fans or players fault they naturally want to win and win all that can be won. Jez they don't care about anybody else and why should they. I'd be the exact same if we were in the same boat. It's all about your county doing well, so you're not bothered when things are going your own way! All of the advantages are with Dublin from the League semi final to the AI Final if they manage to get that far. If you cannot agree on that you have blinkers on! I must say I have been delighted to see the emergence of Dublin as a serious Hurling outfit. It is such a closed shop with the other traditional counties that it refreshing to see a new team in the mix.
what is the alternative to the current arrangement?
Simple, League semi finals in Neutral venues, there are plenty of well equipped venues around the country. Killarney, Castlebar, Limerick, Ennis, Salthill . Leinster games to semi (at least) in Tullamore and Portlaoise.
supposing the counties involved such as Cork Derry and Mayo's players and management actually preferred to play the league semi finals in Croker to gain experience would you still advocate the semis to be played in venues other than Croker ?
Lads surely when you taking population and playing numbers into it they don't get a whole lot more??
Quote from: INDIANA on April 21, 2014, 10:30:06 PM
Teams that can't beat us in CP won't beat us outside there either.
Next we will be banned for being too good.
Has to be the first time in the GAA that a county has to apologise for being better then everyone else
Yeah, look ye have a great side at the moment, no doubt. But you have to admit it is further enhanced by your comfort zone of Croke Park. Where is the magic hammering teams at home especially in the Leinster Championship. As I said earlier this is not the fans or the players fault. And it won't change.
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 21, 2014, 10:40:53 PM
supposing the counties involved such as Cork Derry and Mayo's players and management actually preferred to play the league semi finals in Croker to gain experience would you still advocate the semis to be played in venues other than Croker ?
Well if it was a neutral venue (ie not involving Dublin), that would be ok! Just like if Mayo were playing a league semi final I'd never expect the game to be in McHale Park! We have loads of great venues in great (recession stricken) towns all over the country that can hold most of these games. Why do we have to look to Dublin all the time? Why? I'm sure allot of the Dublin fans are sick of the same old same old routine going to matches in Croker and wouldn't mind a bit of difference, The Blue army invading Limerick or Ennis or Galway or Tullamore or Breffini?
How come home advantage has only recently become a issue? I don't remember too many people giving out about Dublin having home advantage when Kerry, Armagh, Mayo and Tyrone were regularly beating them during the 2000's and they hadnt won an All Ireland in 15 odd years.
The money is going to the capital as it has the greatest concentration of people and good on those responsible for using it to develop the game and achieve success, they clearly have a plan in place which is working. Fair play to the Dubs, they are the team to beat at the minute and sadly, there's something inherent in the psyche of certain Irish people to try and discredit those that are successful. (e.g. Kerry have it too easy in Munster therefore get an easy ride to the AI qtrs/semis, Tyrone and Armagh play puke football, Dublin get too much money etc).
I know if I was playing county football I'd much prefer to be playing in Croker than Portlaois, Tullamore or Clones.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 21, 2014, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 21, 2014, 10:30:06 PM
Teams that can't beat us in CP won't beat us outside there either.
Next we will be banned for being too good.
Has to be the first time in the GAA that a county has to apologise for being better then everyone else
Yeah, look ye have a great side at the moment, no doubt. But you have to admit it is further enhanced by your comfort zone of Croke Park. Where is the magic hammering teams at home especially in the Leinster Championship. As I said earlier this is not the fans or the players fault. And it won't change.
The poor state of Leinster football has got nothing to do with playing in Croke Park. Kildare and Meath took their eye off the ball at underage that's not our fault
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 21, 2014, 10:41:44 PM
Lads surely when you taking population and playing numbers into it they don't get a whole lot more??
If it was on population and playing numbers then in comparison to Dublin, Antrim would be getting about 750,000 yearly, Cork 650,000 yearly and so on but it's not like that.
I have to point out again that this is games development money, I'm not including money gained elsewhere. If you included that the Dublin's figure would be astronomical.
Most counties get around 50,000 to 70,000 yearly for games development, there was some years in 05 and 06 where some counties were getting 7,500 while Dublin were getting 1.3million. It's crazy.
The improvement in results for Dublin in hurling and football at all age levels is in direct correlation to the money received. Money buys sucess, Dublin have been bought success. This is all fact, there's no disputing this.
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 21, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
The money is going to the capital as it has the greatest concentration of people and good on those responsible for using it to develop the game.
Why doesn't Antrim GAA receive 750,000? Cork 650,000?
It's time to knock this nonsense about it being based on population on the head. It doesn't add up. It's based on finances pure and simple. A successful Dublin can make HQ money so investment was made to make that happen.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 21, 2014, 11:07:14 PM
The poor state of Leinster football has got nothing to do with playing in Croke Park. Kildare and Meath took their eye off the ball at underage that's not our fault
Last time Dublin played a championship game outside Croke Park Longford should have beaten them.
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 21, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
How come home advantage has only recently become a issue? I don't remember too many people giving out about Dublin having home advantage when Kerry, Armagh, Mayo and Tyrone were regularly beating them during the 2000's and they hadnt won an All Ireland in 15 odd years.
The money is going to the capital as it has the greatest concentration of people and good on those responsible for using it to develop the game and achieve success, they clearly have a plan in place which is working. Fair play to the Dubs, they are the team to beat at the minute and sadly, there's something inherent in the psyche of certain Irish people to try and discredit those that are successful. (e.g. Kerry have it too easy in Munster therefore get an easy ride to the AI qtrs/semis, Tyrone and Armagh play puke football, Dublin get too much money etc).
I know if I was playing county football I'd much prefer to be playing in Croker than Portlaois, Tullamore or Clones.
One of the main reasons was Dublin did not play all their home League games in Croker. Also they played down the country in early rounds of the Championship. So the exposure was less. I'm not going to go into the money side of things. Look there is a greater threat to the game in Dublin from Rugby and Soccer. Here in Mayo we are lucky there is no such threat. The same can be said for Limerick and Cork to name a few. All joking aside though. It is a gas situation!
Quote from: hardstation on April 21, 2014, 11:20:16 PM
We'd piss it up the wall.
You'd have a good time doing it though.
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 21, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
How come home advantage has only recently become a issue? I don't remember too many people giving out about Dublin having home advantage when Kerry, Armagh, Mayo and Tyrone were regularly beating them during the 2000's and they hadnt won an All Ireland in 15 odd years.
The money is going to the capital as it has the greatest concentration of people and good on those responsible for using it to develop the game and achieve success, they clearly have a plan in place which is working. Fair play to the Dubs, they are the team to beat at the minute and sadly, there's something inherent in the psyche of certain Irish people to try and discredit those that are successful. (e.g. Kerry have it too easy in Munster therefore get an easy ride to the AI qtrs/semis, Tyrone and Armagh play puke football, Dublin get too much money etc).
I know if I was playing county football I'd much prefer to be playing in Croker than Portlaois, Tullamore or Clones.
Very good post.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 21, 2014, 11:27:26 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 21, 2014, 11:07:14 PM
The poor state of Leinster football has got nothing to do with playing in Croke Park. Kildare and Meath took their eye off the ball at underage that's not our fault
Last time Dublin played a championship game outside Croke Park Longford should have beaten them.
But they didn't and the wouldn't beat the current side playing in the dark in the handball alley in Longford Town. This is only a problem for the likes of you because its Dublin. If Kerry won five in a row there wouldn't be a peep out of you.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 21, 2014, 11:29:28 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 21, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
How come home advantage has only recently become a issue? I don't remember too many people giving out about Dublin having home advantage when Kerry, Armagh, Mayo and Tyrone were regularly beating them during the 2000's and they hadnt won an All Ireland in 15 odd years.
The money is going to the capital as it has the greatest concentration of people and good on those responsible for using it to develop the game and achieve success, they clearly have a plan in place which is working. Fair play to the Dubs, they are the team to beat at the minute and sadly, there's something inherent in the psyche of certain Irish people to try and discredit those that are successful. (e.g. Kerry have it too easy in Munster therefore get an easy ride to the AI qtrs/semis, Tyrone and Armagh play puke football, Dublin get too much money etc).
I know if I was playing county football I'd much prefer to be playing in Croker than Portlaois, Tullamore or Clones.
One of the main reasons was Dublin did not play all their home League games in Croker. Also they played down the country in early rounds of the Championship. So the exposure was less. I'm not going to go into the money side of things. Look there is a greater threat to the game in Dublin from Rugby and Soccer. Here in Mayo we are lucky there is no such threat. The same can be said for Limerick and Cork to name a few. All joking aside though. It is a gas situation!
So one of the main reasons Armagh, Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo beat Dublin in the championship in Croker during those years was because Dublin did not play their league games there? Really?
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 22, 2014, 10:30:49 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 21, 2014, 11:29:28 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 21, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
How come home advantage has only recently become a issue? I don't remember too many people giving out about Dublin having home advantage when Kerry, Armagh, Mayo and Tyrone were regularly beating them during the 2000's and they hadnt won an All Ireland in 15 odd years.
The money is going to the capital as it has the greatest concentration of people and good on those responsible for using it to develop the game and achieve success, they clearly have a plan in place which is working. Fair play to the Dubs, they are the team to beat at the minute and sadly, there's something inherent in the psyche of certain Irish people to try and discredit those that are successful. (e.g. Kerry have it too easy in Munster therefore get an easy ride to the AI qtrs/semis, Tyrone and Armagh play puke football, Dublin get too much money etc).
I know if I was playing county football I'd much prefer to be playing in Croker than Portlaois, Tullamore or Clones.
One of the main reasons was Dublin did not play all their home League games in Croker. Also they played down the country in early rounds of the Championship. So the exposure was less. I'm not going to go into the money side of things. Look there is a greater threat to the game in Dublin from Rugby and Soccer. Here in Mayo we are lucky there is no such threat. The same can be said for Limerick and Cork to name a few. All joking aside though. It is a gas situation!
So one of the main reasons Armagh, Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo beat Dublin in the championship in Croker during those years was because Dublin did not play their league games there? Really?
They beat Dublin because they were better then Dublin. And if the games were in omagh, Castlebar and the athletic grounds they'd still have beaten Dublin
Recent analysis has shown county grounds to be the same size as croke park rubbishing the colm Parkinson theory that these pitches are tighter. They aren't colm do some proper analysis the next time before you start waffling on national radio.
Lads, this is nonsense. Every team loves Croke Park. I'm fairly sure the Derry players will relish going to play them there on Sunday and wouldn't want it anywhere else. Playing the Dubs in Croke Park is where you want to be.
The Dubs are putting in a lot of work at grassroots and should be commended. At the end of the day you put 26 names down on a sheet of paper and play a game at senior level. All the underage titles in the world don't count at that point.
The only thing which is a bit of a joke is the fact that they are getting a centre of excellence for no cost. That's poor when you consider the fundraising efforts of other counties.
I honestly think most counties (especially those from Leinster and Mayo) have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to playing the Dubs. Ulster counties thrive on it. Who wouldnt want to play in front of 80,000 people with the hill booing and jeering. Thats what its all about and to beat them (Donegal 92, Derry 93, Down 94, Armagh 02, Tyrone 05) against the odds, gives a player no better feeling!!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2014, 11:54:58 AM
I honestly think most counties (especially those from Leinster and Mayo) have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to playing the Dubs. Ulster counties thrive on it. Who wouldnt want to play in front of 80,000 people with the hill booing and jeering. Thats what its all about and to beat them (Donegal 92, Derry 93, Down 94, Armagh 02, Tyrone 05) against the odds, gives a player no better feeling!!
Plenty of non-Ulster teams beat them during this period.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2014, 11:54:58 AM
I honestly think most counties (especially those from Leinster and Mayo) have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to playing the Dubs. Ulster counties thrive on it. Who wouldnt want to play in front of 80,000 people with the hill booing and jeering. Thats what its all about and to beat them (Donegal 92, Derry 93, Down 94, Armagh 02, Tyrone 05) against the odds, gives a player no better feeling!!
get a grip will you against the odds????? tyrone would have bet us that year in any venue
Mayo do not have an inferiority complex playing against Dublin, they beat us in the 2006 semi final ..............(one of the greatest games ever witnessed particularly rolled out by country brethren everywhere, croke park, full of dubs blah blah blah) .....................2012 another semi final beat us and came close last year in a final ::)
Kerry have annihilated us many times there, Armagh humiliated us and likewise Tyrone ............................. oh be the time when Dublin are shite again I wonder what the muldoons will moan about then
Quote from: INDIANA on April 22, 2014, 07:45:53 AM
But they didn't and the wouldn't beat the current side playing in the dark in the handball alley in Longford Town. This is only a problem for the likes of you because its Dublin. If Kerry won five in a row there wouldn't be a peep out of you.
Since Longford nearly beat Dublin in 2006, Dublin have received millions upon millions while Longford have received a few thousand. Ofcourse Longford wouldn't beat Dublin, it would be a struggle normally without the money due to the population difference etc so how could they possibly compete now? Do you see any honour in Dublin beating Longford?
If Kerry were receiving 1.5million yearly and everyone else only receiving tiny fractions of that amount then I would have a problem with it, if they were winning 5 in a row or not. You would too but you don't have a problem because it's Dublin been handed All Irelands.
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 22, 2014, 10:30:49 AM
So one of the main reasons Armagh, Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo beat Dublin in the championship in Croker during those years was because Dublin did not play their league games there? Really?
1,500,000 yearly.
Quote from: sheamy on April 22, 2014, 11:47:50 AM
Lads, this is nonsense. Every team loves Croke Park. I'm fairly sure the Derry players will relish going to play them there on Sunday and wouldn't want it anywhere else. Playing the Dubs in Croke Park is where you want to be.
The Dubs are putting in a lot of work at grassroots and should be commended. At the end of the day you put 26 names down on a sheet of paper and play a game at senior level. All the underage titles in the world don't count at that point.
The only thing which is a bit of a joke is the fact that they are getting a centre of excellence for no cost. That's poor when you consider the fundraising efforts of other counties.
You don't think having a conveyor belt of underage talent helps in winning at senior level. ;D Just forget about it.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2014, 11:54:58 AM
I honestly think most counties (especially those from Leinster and Mayo) have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to playing the Dubs. Ulster counties thrive on it. Who wouldnt want to play in front of 80,000 people with the hill booing and jeering. Thats what its all about and to beat them (Donegal 92, Derry 93, Down 94, Armagh 02, Tyrone 05) against the odds, gives a player no better feeling!!
Whatever about using Croke Park as their home pitch how can anyone justify 1.5 million yearly?
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks link=topic=24506.msg1344313#msg1344313
get a grip will you against the odds????? tyrone would have bet us that year in any venue
Mayo do not have an inferiority complex playing against Dublin, they beat us in the 2006 semi final ..............(one of the greatest games ever witnessed particularly rolled out by country brethren everywhere, croke park, full of dubs blah blah blah) .....................2012 another semi final beat us and came close last year in a final ::)
Kerry have annihilated us many times there, Armagh humiliated us and likewise Tyrone ............................. oh be the time when Dublin are shite again I wonder what the muldoons will moan about then
1.5 million yearly.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 01:13:57 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2014, 11:54:58 AM
I honestly think most counties (especially those from Leinster and Mayo) have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to playing the Dubs. Ulster counties thrive on it. Who wouldnt want to play in front of 80,000 people with the hill booing and jeering. Thats what its all about and to beat them (Donegal 92, Derry 93, Down 94, Armagh 02, Tyrone 05) against the odds, gives a player no better feeling!!
Whatever about using Croke Park as their home pitch how can anyone justify 1.5 million yearly?
how can anyone justifty a laois man taking other lads jobs in newstalk......................under cutting weasal
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2014, 11:54:58 AM
I honestly think most counties (especially those from Leinster and Mayo) have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to playing the Dubs. Ulster counties thrive on it. Who wouldnt want to play in front of 80,000 people with the hill booing and jeering. Thats what its all about and to beat them (Donegal 92, Derry 93, Down 94, Armagh 02, Tyrone 05) against the odds, gives a player no better feeling!!
We have won 2 of our last 3 Championship matches against them. Our problem is Finals, and maybe Kerry, not the Dubs.
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 22, 2014, 01:15:47 PM
how can anyone justifty a laois man taking other lads jobs in newstalk......................under cutting weasal
Deflection as usual, can any Dub mention the 1.5 million yearly, nevermind actually discuss the topic? ;D I think they're embarrassed and ashamed that they can't win titles on their own but they wont admit it. Sad really.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 01:20:20 PM
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 22, 2014, 01:15:47 PM
how can anyone justifty a laois man taking other lads jobs in newstalk......................under cutting weasal
Deflection as usual, can any Dub mention the 1.5 million yearly, nevermind actually discuss the topic? ;D I think they're embarrassed and ashamed that they can't win titles on their own but they wont admit it. Sad really.
Roll out your stats there in regards to revenue generated from season tickets, ticket sales, and jerseys sales in relation to Dublin Gaa yearly ???
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 22, 2014, 01:25:24 PM
Roll out your stats there in regards to revenue generated from season tickets, ticket sales, and jerseys sales in relation to Dublin Gaa yearly ???
You get your fair share back from that, 1.5million for games development isn't fair, wouldn't you agree?
Garth Brooks is going to generate plenty of revenue for the GAA, should we hand him an All Ireland medal too?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 01:29:59 PM
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 22, 2014, 01:25:24 PM
Roll out your stats there in regards to revenue generated from season tickets, ticket sales, and jerseys sales in relation to Dublin Gaa yearly ???
You get your fair share back from that, 1.5million for games development isn't fair, wouldn't you agree?
Garth Brooks is going to generate plenty of revenue for the GAA, should we hand him an All Ireland medal too?
We can always give Longford a cut of the devlopment monies that have been poured into lapis hurling in the last four years if you like. You think you've improved by just giving the lads tea and biscuits after training you hypocrite.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 01:29:59 PM
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 22, 2014, 01:25:24 PM
Roll out your stats there in regards to revenue generated from season tickets, ticket sales, and jerseys sales in relation to Dublin Gaa yearly ???
You get your fair share back from that, 1.5million for games development isn't fair, wouldn't you agree?
Garth Brooks is going to generate plenty of revenue for the GAA, should we hand him an All Ireland medal too?
Do not cloud your issues with the GAA in general into pure hatred for Dublin. Also Id imagine that since your a lover of stats and banging them out that the majority of the bafoons going to see that chancer Brooks are from the country !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The majority of dublin folk living and working, commuting around the croke park area would rather his concerts were somewere else ...................................alas you as a laois man should really share your concerns with our gaa president a laois man none the less who continues to push the association into a corporation
Quote from: Jinxy on April 22, 2014, 12:58:25 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2014, 11:54:58 AM
I honestly think most counties (especially those from Leinster and Mayo) have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to playing the Dubs. Ulster counties thrive on it. Who wouldnt want to play in front of 80,000 people with the hill booing and jeering. Thats what its all about and to beat them (Donegal 92, Derry 93, Down 94, Armagh 02, Tyrone 05) against the odds, gives a player no better feeling!!
Plenty of non-Ulster teams beat them during this period.
No only Ulster teams have beat Dublin in Croke Park in Championship in the last 25 seasons! ;)
They have the upper hand on them. ;)
They have a great record against the Dubs over the last ten years. ;)
Quote from: INDIANA on April 22, 2014, 01:35:24 PM
We can always give Longford a cut of the devlopment monies that have been poured into lapis hurling in the last four years if you like. You think you've improved by just giving the lads tea and biscuits after training you hypocrite.
;D Still no Dub will actually talk about the 1.5 million yearly. If you want to ask about Laois hurling then there's a thread in the hurling section you can do it in.
Anything to say about the financial cheating from Dublin in the last decade or so?
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 22, 2014, 01:38:32 PM
Do not cloud your issues with the GAA in general into pure hatred for Dublin. Also Id imagine that since your a lover of stats and banging them out that the majority of the bafoons going to see that chancer Brooks are from the country !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The majority of dublin folk living and working, commuting around the croke park area would rather his concerts were somewere else ...................................alas you as a laois man should really share your concerns with our gaa president a laois man none the less who continues to push the association into a corporation
I think at this stage it's obvious that the Dubs feel a bit guilty about being bought success but can't bring themselves to talk about it. Thay can't face up to the reality of it all and are lashing out. Poor things need counselling I feel. ;D
Even poor Garth Brooks fans get bashed by this Dub, still nothing to say about the 1.5million yearly received by Dublin?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 01:53:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 22, 2014, 01:35:24 PM
We can always give Longford a cut of the devlopment monies that have been poured into lapis hurling in the last four years if you like. You think you've improved by just giving the lads tea and biscuits after training you hypocrite.
;D Still no Dub will actually talk about the 1.5 million yearly. If you want to ask about Laois hurling then there's a thread in the hurling section you can do it in.
Anything to say about the financial cheating from Dublin in the last decade or so?
Not getting into a debate with a hypocrite. Your point would be valid if your own county wasn't benefitting from the same structure. Why should Laois hurling get more than Carlow?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 01:12:49 PM
Quote from: sheamy on April 22, 2014, 11:47:50 AM
Lads, this is nonsense. Every team loves Croke Park. I'm fairly sure the Derry players will relish going to play them there on Sunday and wouldn't want it anywhere else. Playing the Dubs in Croke Park is where you want to be.
The Dubs are putting in a lot of work at grassroots and should be commended. At the end of the day you put 26 names down on a sheet of paper and play a game at senior level. All the underage titles in the world don't count at that point.
The only thing which is a bit of a joke is the fact that they are getting a centre of excellence for no cost. That's poor when you consider the fundraising efforts of other counties.
You don't think having a conveyor belt of underage talent helps in winning at senior level. ;D Just forget about it.
I say one thing and you hear another. Are you female by any chance?
Of course a conveyor belt of talent is important. Winning titles, however, is absolutely no guarantee or even a reliable indicator of senior success.
Your Dublin obsession is a bit worrying.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 22, 2014, 02:11:02 PM
Not getting into a debate with a hypocrite. Your point would be valid if your own county wasn't benefitting from the same structure. Why should Laois hurling get more than Carlow?
Deflection, the last resort, as I always say it's like Bertie, imitating your hero. ;D
Dublin got 1,509,631 last year for games development, Laois got 49,514, Carlow got 45,978. Now which team is getting an unfair advantage?
Quote from: sheamy on April 22, 2014, 02:20:15 PM
I say one thing and you hear another. Are you female by any chance?
Of course a conveyor belt of talent is important. Winning titles, however, is absolutely no guarantee or even a reliable indicator of senior success.
Your Dublin obsession is a bit worrying.
Want me to put up my table again? Dublin's improvement at underage is in direct correlation to the money received and has led to increased success at senior level in both football and hurling. This is fact.
Can you justify the money they're getting? You can't, no one can. If it was Kerry, Derry, Down, Waterford, Leitrim or any county involved in this sort of financial cheating I'd be saying the very same thing, it's Dublin who are cheating so it's Dublin who get mentioned in my posts. Easy to understand?
I don't need to see the table again.
The whole thing is public information.
http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/Annual_Congress_Final_Report2.pdf
Page 124.
The largest spend on coaching and games looks to be on Dublin, Derry, Cork and Antrim. With those counties having the largest cities in Ireland, it's hardly surprising. I haven't done the sums but per head of population, would they be that far out?
The population of Dublin is about 1.2 million, roughly.
The population of Derry City is about 100k, roughly.
That factor of 12 or so seems to come out in the accounts.
Good to see the two biggest cheating counties in Ireland meeting on Sunday.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: sheamy on April 22, 2014, 02:20:15 PM
I say one thing and you hear another. Are you female by any chance?
Of course a conveyor belt of talent is important. Winning titles, however, is absolutely no guarantee or even a reliable indicator of senior success.
Your Dublin obsession is a bit worrying.
Want me to put up my table again? Dublin's improvement at underage is in direct correlation to the money received and has led to increased success at senior level in both football and hurling. This is fact.
Can you justify the money they're getting? You can't, no one can. If it was Kerry, Derry, Down, Waterford, Leitrim or any county involved in this sort of financial cheating I'd be saying the very same thing, it's Dublin who are cheating so it's Dublin who get mentioned in my posts. Easy to understand?
Can you justify laois getting 250k per annum for it's hurling programme in contrast to the Longford county board who get nothing?
All of Carlow , laois , Westmeath and Antrim are in receipt of this . I want you to tell me why laois are more entitled to it then Longford
Quote from: sheamy on April 22, 2014, 03:01:49 PM
I don't need to see the table again.
The whole thing is public information.
http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/Annual_Congress_Final_Report2.pdf
Page 124.
The largest spend on coaching and games looks to be on Dublin, Derry, Cork and Antrim. With those counties having the largest cities in Ireland, it's hardly surprising. I haven't done the sums but per head of population, would they be that far out?
The population of Dublin is about 1.2 million, roughly.
The population of Derry City is about 100k, roughly.
That factor of 12 or so seems to come out in the accounts.
Good to see the two biggest cheating counties in Ireland meeting on Sunday.
Not that table this one:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2yy1mya.jpg)
You see how the results are improving? with money?
The largest spend is on Dublin, followed FAR behind by Derry and the rest. I've already shown that the population argument is nonsense, isn't Derry closer to 200,000 than 100,000? Oh wait, you only include Derry city. ;D There's just no defending it no matter what kind of spin you put on it.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 04:10:55 PM
Quote from: sheamy on April 22, 2014, 03:01:49 PM
I don't need to see the table again.
The whole thing is public information.
http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/Annual_Congress_Final_Report2.pdf
Page 124.
The largest spend on coaching and games looks to be on Dublin, Derry, Cork and Antrim. With those counties having the largest cities in Ireland, it's hardly surprising. I haven't done the sums but per head of population, would they be that far out?
The population of Dublin is about 1.2 million, roughly.
The population of Derry City is about 100k, roughly.
That factor of 12 or so seems to come out in the accounts.
Good to see the two biggest cheating counties in Ireland meeting on Sunday.
Not that table this one:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2yy1mya.jpg)
You see how the results are improving? with money?
The largest spend is on Dublin, followed FAR behind by Derry and the rest. I've already shown that the population argument is nonsense, isn't Derry closer to 200,000 than 100,000? Oh wait, you only include Derry city. ;D There's just no defending it no matter what kind of spin you put on it.
Have you got an answer?
Quote from: INDIANA on April 22, 2014, 03:40:24 PM
Can you justify laois getting 250k per annum for it's hurling programme in contrast to the Longford county board who get nothing?
All of Carlow , laois , Westmeath and Antrim are in receipt of this . I want you to tell me why laois are more entitled to it then Longford
;D They're not, in fact I said as much in this very thread! Here's what I said "The good news is that this year they've supplied a million for 4 counties to share amongst them to improve hurling standards, the bad news is that there's not only 4 counties who need improvement in their hurling."
Now I know this attitude of fair play is against your nature but it's not against mine. The money should be spreads fairly no matter what county is involved. Why do you find it easy to point out unfair funding to other counties but not your own? Especially when the amounts we're talking about is far, far higher?
Quote from: INDIANA on April 22, 2014, 04:12:09 PM
Have you got an answer?
An answer to attempt to undo the financial cheating of Dublin? There's only one answer, split them!
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 04:18:48 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 22, 2014, 04:12:09 PM
Have you got an answer?
An answer to attempt to undo the financial cheating of Dublin? There's only one answer, split them!
Nothing then. Point proven you are undoubtedly the village idiot.
Hypocrite
Quote from: INDIANA on April 22, 2014, 04:39:05 PM
Nothing then. Point proven you are undoubtedly the village idiot.
Hypocrite
;D Oh but you've made a huge show of yourself. It's so funny. Poor simple Dub.
Read a couple of posts up. ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D I can't stop laughing at ya.
I would have thought development money would be in proportion to the number of kids that would be impacted by the investment. As Dublin has significantly more kids than other areas then it will need more money spent on facilities, coaches and gear etc. I would suggest it hardly matters what colour of jersey the kids wear in the future. If that money is well spent then the kids will be enjoying their football (or hurling) which is job done. If as a result the Dublin senior team improves well fair play to them, but I'd say that's a secondary objective and there's never a guarantee that money spent on underage development will result in senior success.
What's the alternative suggestion? Reduce the amount to Dublin and leave kids disadvantaged or give 1.5m to Carlow and have the coaches driving Porsches and Mercs?
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 22, 2014, 04:59:07 PM
I would have thought development money would be in proportion to the number of kids that would be impacted by the investment. As Dublin has significantly more kids than other areas then it will need more money spent on facilities, coaches and gear etc. I would suggest it hardly matters what colour of jersey the kids wear in the future. If that money is well spent then the kids will be enjoying their football (or hurling) which is job done. If as a result the Dublin senior team improves well fair play to them, but I'd say that's a secondary objective and there's never a guarantee that money spent on underage development will result in senior success.
What's the suggestion? Reduce the amount to Dublin and leave kids disadvantaged or give 1.5m to Carlow and have the coaches driving Porsches and Mercs?
This is like trying to toilet train kids. You have them over the toilet but they still go on the floor.
As I've already shown, it's not down to population as other counties would be getting far higher than they're getting. Most of the money is going on producing talent - development squads, high profile coaches and so on. That will make them more competitive at minor, u21 and will lead onto senior. This is the PRIMARY objective, getting more kids involved is secondary.
Now nearly every club and county around the country is struggling to get kids involved and keep them involved. Why is Dublin seen as a special case? Why are they given huge financial support while everyone else has to struggle on?
So it's not about leaving Dublin kids disadvantaged, it's removing their advantage and putting them at an equal footing to the kids in all the other counties. What do people see wrong with that?
Don't give Carlow 1.5million, give every county fair funding! This isn't difficult. You can base it on population if you want but you can't have most of the country receiving well under 100,000 while one county is receiving 1,500,000 and I repeat, this 1.5million is games development money alone. Dublin are living on far higher than that.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 05:18:55 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 22, 2014, 04:59:07 PM
I would have thought development money would be in proportion to the number of kids that would be impacted by the investment. As Dublin has significantly more kids than other areas then it will need more money spent on facilities, coaches and gear etc. I would suggest it hardly matters what colour of jersey the kids wear in the future. If that money is well spent then the kids will be enjoying their football (or hurling) which is job done. If as a result the Dublin senior team improves well fair play to them, but I'd say that's a secondary objective and there's never a guarantee that money spent on underage development will result in senior success.
What's the suggestion? Reduce the amount to Dublin and leave kids disadvantaged or give 1.5m to Carlow and have the coaches driving Porsches and Mercs?
This is like trying to toilet train kids. You have them over the toilet but they still go on the floor.
As I've already shown, it's not down to population as other counties would be getting far higher than they're getting. Most of the money is going on producing talent - development squads, high profile coaches and so on. That will make them more competitive at minor, u21 and will lead onto senior. This is the PRIMARY objective, getting more kids involved is secondary.
Now nearly every club and county around the country is struggling to get kids involved and keep them involved. Why is Dublin seen as a special case? Why are they given huge financial support while everyone else has to struggle on?
So it's not about leaving Dublin kids disadvantaged, it's removing their advantage and putting them at an equal footing to the kids in all the other counties. What do people see wrong with that?
Don't give Carlow 1.5million, give every county fair funding! This isn't difficult. You can base it on population if you want but you can't have most of the country receiving well under 100,000 while one county is receiving 1,500,000 and I repeat, this 1.5million is games development money alone. Dublin are living on far higher than that.
Draw us up a draft solution, county by county then saying you are the fiscal expert here.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2014, 05:48:54 PM
Draw us up a draft solution, county by county then saying you are the fiscal expert here.
Obviously I can't give you a detailed one as that would take a long time.
So just say you have 10 million as you're games development fund. You have 36 teams to divide it amongst so that leaves you with about 280,000 each if you divide it equally. You make adjustments for population with the highest population about 600,000 and the lowest about 30,000. Not so hard is it? Everybody wins!
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 22, 2014, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 22, 2014, 05:48:54 PM
Draw us up a draft solution, county by county then saying you are the fiscal expert here.
Obviously I can't give you a detailed one as that would take a long time.
So just say you have 10 million as you're games development fund. You have 36 teams to divide it amongst so that leaves you with about 280,000 each if you divide it equally. You make adjustments for population with the highest population about 600,000 and the lowest about 30,000. Not so hard is it? Everybody wins!
More Andrex material
Quote from: INDIANA on April 22, 2014, 06:23:48 PM
More Andrex material
Most people would have bowed out red faced after the show you made of yourself earlier but you have no shame. ;D
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 22, 2014, 04:59:07 PM
I would have thought development money would be in proportion to the number of kids that would be impacted by the investment. As Dublin has significantly more kids than other areas then it will need more money spent on facilities, coaches and gear etc. I would suggest it hardly matters what colour of jersey the kids wear in the future. If that money is well spent then the kids will be enjoying their football (or hurling) which is job done. If as a result the Dublin senior team improves well fair play to them, but I'd say that's a secondary objective and there's never a guarantee that money spent on underage development will result in senior success.
Bingo.
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
34
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 23, 2014, 12:27:43 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 12:22:34 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 23, 2014, 11:12:27 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
34
no place like home wha! :)
Everyone knows that Portlaoise is Kildare's home venue.
ah that's not fair we want portlaois as our secondary venue for less attractive games and our underage teams! :D
When Eugene McGees Football Review Comedy were looking for suggestions on how we can improve Gaelic football, I sent him a 5 page page detailed letter. It took me ages to write, I went through the major problem we had, how it was effecting ordinary grassroots members, the unfairness of it, the utter disgust I had with the entire situation.
For some reason I haven't heard anything about it since, why haven't you tackled it Eugene? Keep the Lilies out of O'Moore Park. It's a disgrace that we get landed with that lot every Summer.
I'd say Eugene made it halfway down the first page.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 23, 2014, 01:04:20 PM
When Eugene McGees Football Review Comedy were looking for suggestions on how we can improve Gaelic football, I sent him a 5 page page detailed letter. It took me ages to write, I went through the major problem we had, how it was effecting ordinary grassroots members, the unfairness of it, the utter disgust I had with the entire situation.
For some reason I haven't heard anything about it since, why haven't you tackled it Eugene? Keep the Lilies out of O'Moore Park. It's a disgrace that we get landed with that lot every Summer.
Why don't you join reservoir dubs, the lads over there will give you a proper debate on all things Dublin GAA
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 02:21:46 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 23, 2014, 01:04:20 PM
When Eugene McGees Football Review Comedy were looking for suggestions on how we can improve Gaelic football, I sent him a 5 page page detailed letter. It took me ages to write, I went through the major problem we had, how it was effecting ordinary grassroots members, the unfairness of it, the utter disgust I had with the entire situation.
For some reason I haven't heard anything about it since, why haven't you tackled it Eugene? Keep the Lilies out of O'Moore Park. It's a disgrace that we get landed with that lot every Summer.
Why don't you join reservoir dubs, the lads over there will give you a proper debate on all things Dublin GAA
We will alright. And then we'll find out who he is, where he lives and which primary school he's going to. And then indeed the fun will start.........!
I avoid going to Dublin as much as possible as all you get is abused by junkies, why would I sign up to that site for the same treatmeant?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 24, 2014, 08:10:21 PM
I avoid going to Dublin as much as possible as all you get is abused by junkies, why would I sign up to that site for the same treatmeant?
seek and you'll find ! Or maybe because the lads over there know Dublin gaa and would wipe the floor with your argument!
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
I have a better question for ya! How many times in knock out competition (League and Championship) has say Bernard Brogan played outside Croke ParK?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
I have a better question for ya! How many times in knock out competition (League and Championship) has say Bernard Brogan played outside Croke ParK?
Don't get this whole Croke Park obsession lads. It's where all top players want to play. The current Cork, Kerry, Mayo, Kildare, Tyrone and Donegal panels know the stadium well by this stage. If anything it brings out the best in players.
Brian Mc Iver was thrilled the semi finals were at HQ and is delighted to take Derry back this weekend!
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
I have a better question for ya! How many times in knock out competition (League and Championship) has say Bernard Brogan played outside Croke ParK?
Bernard brogan as we all know has never played a champo game outside croker
Any of the potential teams to play Dublin outside croker in the Leinster champo wouldn't jane a hope of beating Dublin regardless of venue
Laois Wexford Wicklow etc
A fixture against either Meath or Kildare gas to be played in croker as both fixtures would draw at least 45k
There wouldn't be much advantage playing Kildare in croker as they have/had players like johnny Doyle that has played there not once not twice but 34 times. Teams raise their game playing in croker especially against Dublin
All this Dublin home advantage, Dublin sponsorship, Dublin have all the money malarkey smacks to me of jealousy and begrudgery, wasn't a problem a few years ago when Dublin were being humiliated in croker to wails of country delight.
These days we choke on all Ireland medals.
Swings and roundabouts with the emergence and decline of great teams. All pretenders to dublins throne would be better off to stop concentrating their moans on Dublin and knuckle down to beat us on the pitch.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2014, 11:12:39 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
I have a better question for ya! How many times in knock out competition (League and Championship) has say Bernard Brogan played outside Croke ParK?
Don't get this whole Croke Park obsession lads. It's where all top players want to play. The current Cork, Kerry, Mayo, Kildare, Tyrone and Donegal panels know the stadium well by this stage. If anything it brings out the best in players.
Brian Mc Iver was thrilled the semi finals were at HQ and is delighted to take Derry back this weekend!
You are right you don't get it! I have no problem with the Dubs playing in Croker when it is a final (in the League) or a Leinster final or an AI semi or Final. It's great to play in Croker when you have earned the right. Problem is Dublin never have to earn the right anymore.
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 11:25:04 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
I have a better question for ya! How many times in knock out competition (League and Championship) has say Bernard Brogan played outside Croke ParK?
Bernard brogan as we all know has never played a champo game outside croker
Any of the potential teams to play Dublin outside croker in the Leinster champo wouldn't jane a hope of beating Dublin regardless of venue
Laois Wexford Wicklow etc
A fixture against either Meath or Kildare gas to be played in croker as both fixtures would draw at least 45k
There wouldn't be much advantage playing Kildare in croker as they have/had players like johnny Doyle that has played there not once not twice but 34 times. Teams raise their game playing in croker especially against Dublin
All this Dublin home advantage, Dublin sponsorship, Dublin have all the money malarkey smacks to me of jealousy and begrudgery, wasn't a problem a few years ago when Dublin were being humiliated in croker to wails of country delight.
These days we choke on all Ireland medals.
Swings and roundabouts with the emergence and decline of great teams. All pretenders to dublins throne would be better off to stop concentrating their moans on Dublin and knuckle down to beat us on the pitch.
Jez, I was sure Bernard had played at least one game knock out game outside of Croke Park. That's amazing! I was expecting an answer back of 5! Feck! Just goes to show you the monopoly of Dublin and keeping it at home. Crazy stuff! Is there another sport with this bias toward one team? I am not blaming the Players or the fans? They are just pawns in all of this. Happy pawns, but pawns all the same.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:38:33 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 11:25:04 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
I have a better question for ya! How many times in knock out competition (League and Championship) has say Bernard Brogan played outside Croke ParK?
Bernard brogan as we all know has never played a champo game outside croker
Any of the potential teams to play Dublin outside croker in the Leinster champo wouldn't jane a hope of beating Dublin regardless of venue
Laois Wexford Wicklow etc
A fixture against either Meath or Kildare gas to be played in croker as both fixtures would draw at least 45k
There wouldn't be much advantage playing Kildare in croker as they have/had players like johnny Doyle that has played there not once not twice but 34 times. Teams raise their game playing in croker especially against Dublin
All this Dublin home advantage, Dublin sponsorship, Dublin have all the money malarkey smacks to me of jealousy and begrudgery, wasn't a problem a few years ago when Dublin were being humiliated in croker to wails of country delight.
These days we choke on all Ireland medals.
Swings and roundabouts with the emergence and decline of great teams. All pretenders to dublins throne would be better off to stop concentrating their moans on Dublin and knuckle down to beat us on the pitch.
Jez, I was sure Bernard had played at least one game knock out game outside of Croke Park. That's amazing! I was expecting an answer back of 5! Feck! Just goes to show you the monopoly of Dublin and keeping it at home. Crazy stuff! Is there another sport with this bias toward one team? I am not blaming the Players or the fans? They are just pawns in all of this. Happy pawns, but pawns all the same.
was this so called bias towards Dublin prevalent throughout the noughties ? Did Dublin have an advantage over mayo in last years final?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:29:08 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2014, 11:12:39 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
I have a better question for ya! How many times in knock out competition (League and Championship) has say Bernard Brogan played outside Croke ParK?
Don't get this whole Croke Park obsession lads. It's where all top players want to play. The current Cork, Kerry, Mayo, Kildare, Tyrone and Donegal panels know the stadium well by this stage. If anything it brings out the best in players.
Brian Mc Iver was thrilled the semi finals were at HQ and is delighted to take Derry back this weekend!
You are right you don't get it! I have no problem with the Dubs playing in Croker when it is a final (in the League) or a Leinster final or an AI semi or Final. It's great to play in Croker when you have earned the right. Problem is Dublin never have to earn the right anymore.
Earn the right! Are you serious? What a load of self serving nonsense. Personally I couldn't give a toss where we play. We are fortunate to have a team at the minute who will beat any team in leinster where ever the game is played.
In fact most Dublin supporters would be more than happy to play outside Dublin. We did it for many years and in all that time rarely lost a game So if that's what you're hoping for you'll be waiting
Our fellow counties in leinster might in fact tire of this quickly as they find not only will they still lose to Dublin but their share of ticket monies will also go down significantly. Turkey's voting for Christmas and all that.
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:38:33 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 11:25:04 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
I have a better question for ya! How many times in knock out competition (League and Championship) has say Bernard Brogan played outside Croke ParK?
Bernard brogan as we all know has never played a champo game outside croker
Any of the potential teams to play Dublin outside croker in the Leinster champo wouldn't jane a hope of beating Dublin regardless of venue
Laois Wexford Wicklow etc
A fixture against either Meath or Kildare gas to be played in croker as both fixtures would draw at least 45k
There wouldn't be much advantage playing Kildare in croker as they have/had players like johnny Doyle that has played there not once not twice but 34 times. Teams raise their game playing in croker especially against Dublin
All this Dublin home advantage, Dublin sponsorship, Dublin have all the money malarkey smacks to me of jealousy and begrudgery, wasn't a problem a few years ago when Dublin were being humiliated in croker to wails of country delight.
These days we choke on all Ireland medals.
Swings and roundabouts with the emergence and decline of great teams. All pretenders to dublins throne would be better off to stop concentrating their moans on Dublin and knuckle down to beat us on the pitch.
Jez, I was sure Bernard had played at least one game knock out game outside of Croke Park. That's amazing! I was expecting an answer back of 5! Feck! Just goes to show you the monopoly of Dublin and keeping it at home. Crazy stuff! Is there another sport with this bias toward one team? I am not blaming the Players or the fans? They are just pawns in all of this. Happy pawns, but pawns all the same.
was this so called bias towards Dublin prevalent throughout the noughties ? Did Dublin have an advantage over mayo in last years final?
Yeah, I'd say it was not as prevelant through out the noughties, that is because Dublin only started playing Home League games in Croke park during this time and there was the odd Leinster Championship match down the country. If you look this directly correlates with Dublins recent Leinster Successes and now AI successes? It's only natural that a team who play at home (and do it now more often) will do better than visiting teams. I was going to say you are fighting a losing battle, but in reality it is us who are the losers. As for Dublin having an advantage over Mayo, What do you think? No travel arrangements, really familiar ground, Own house and bed the night before. But I'm not arguing about Finals. Finals have to be in Croke Park. I'm looking at the (so called) smaller games!
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:58:35 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:38:33 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 11:25:04 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
I have a better question for ya! How many times in knock out competition (League and Championship) has say Bernard Brogan played outside Croke ParK?
Bernard brogan as we all know has never played a champo game outside croker
Any of the potential teams to play Dublin outside croker in the Leinster champo wouldn't jane a hope of beating Dublin regardless of venue
Laois Wexford Wicklow etc
A fixture against either Meath or Kildare gas to be played in croker as both fixtures would draw at least 45k
There wouldn't be much advantage playing Kildare in croker as they have/had players like johnny Doyle that has played there not once not twice but 34 times. Teams raise their game playing in croker especially against Dublin
All this Dublin home advantage, Dublin sponsorship, Dublin have all the money malarkey smacks to me of jealousy and begrudgery, wasn't a problem a few years ago when Dublin were being humiliated in croker to wails of country delight.
These days we choke on all Ireland medals.
Swings and roundabouts with the emergence and decline of great teams. All pretenders to dublins throne would be better off to stop concentrating their moans on Dublin and knuckle down to beat us on the pitch.
Jez, I was sure Bernard had played at least one game knock out game outside of Croke Park. That's amazing! I was expecting an answer back of 5! Feck! Just goes to show you the monopoly of Dublin and keeping it at home. Crazy stuff! Is there another sport with this bias toward one team? I am not blaming the Players or the fans? They are just pawns in all of this. Happy pawns, but pawns all the same.
was this so called bias towards Dublin prevalent throughout the noughties ? Did Dublin have an advantage over mayo in last years final?
Yeah, I'd say it was not as prevelant through out the noughties, that is because Dublin only started playing Home League games in Croke park during this time and there was the odd Leinster Championship match down the country. If you look this directly correlates with Dublins recent Leinster Successes and now AI successes? It's only natural that a team who play at home (and do it now more often) will do better than visiting teams. I was going to say you are fighting a losing battle, but in reality it is us who are the losers. As for Dublin having an advantage over Mayo, What do you think? No travel arrangements, really familiar ground, Own house and bed the night before. But I'm not arguing about Finals. Finals have to be in Croke Park. I'm looking at the (so called) smaller games!
let's take the smaller games! Dublin historically don't loose the smaller games on the road.
The spring series didn't start until 2010. There is no evidence that playing in Croker for the league is an advantage come the summer, we played our league games there in the early nineties and won shag all!
As for sleeping in there own beds, pat gilroy organised for the squad to stay in a hotel together to try and create the same kind of team bond that teams from the country garner through travelling together, he obviously felt they had an advantage in that regard.
There was no problem with advantages when Dublin were shite, now we have a top team that only a handful of counties would get near and it's a moan moan moan from our country cousins! It all smacks to me of Culchies not being able to take a beating from Dublin and certain sections of the media pumping Dublin up only to bate them ala the English soccer team by tapping into the prevalent anti Dublin feeling with some ( most likely quite a few) countrywide. Also it's a platform for the begrudgery of this fine Dublin team. Possibly the greatest Dublin team to date!
I do however think that Jim Gavin or the DCB should come out and say we'll play anyone anywhere!
I would have loved a first round in port Laois, OMoore park would have been perfect. I reckon it could have easily held the 15/20k travelling support. Dublin would no way bring more than 20k for a first round and the gaa know it. So it's kind of a disadvantage for Dublin now as their hands are tied and they are getting slated left right and centre.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:58:35 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:38:33 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 11:25:04 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2014, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 23, 2014, 08:32:59 AM
How many championship games did johnny Doyle play in Croker?
I have a better question for ya! How many times in knock out competition (League and Championship) has say Bernard Brogan played outside Croke ParK?
Bernard brogan as we all know has never played a champo game outside croker
Any of the potential teams to play Dublin outside croker in the Leinster champo wouldn't jane a hope of beating Dublin regardless of venue
Laois Wexford Wicklow etc
A fixture against either Meath or Kildare gas to be played in croker as both fixtures would draw at least 45k
There wouldn't be much advantage playing Kildare in croker as they have/had players like johnny Doyle that has played there not once not twice but 34 times. Teams raise their game playing in croker especially against Dublin
All this Dublin home advantage, Dublin sponsorship, Dublin have all the money malarkey smacks to me of jealousy and begrudgery, wasn't a problem a few years ago when Dublin were being humiliated in croker to wails of country delight.
These days we choke on all Ireland medals.
Swings and roundabouts with the emergence and decline of great teams. All pretenders to dublins throne would be better off to stop concentrating their moans on Dublin and knuckle down to beat us on the pitch.
Jez, I was sure Bernard had played at least one game knock out game outside of Croke Park. That's amazing! I was expecting an answer back of 5! Feck! Just goes to show you the monopoly of Dublin and keeping it at home. Crazy stuff! Is there another sport with this bias toward one team? I am not blaming the Players or the fans? They are just pawns in all of this. Happy pawns, but pawns all the same.
was this so called bias towards Dublin prevalent throughout the noughties ? Did Dublin have an advantage over mayo in last years final?
Yeah, I'd say it was not as prevelant through out the noughties, that is because Dublin only started playing Home League games in Croke park during this time and there was the odd Leinster Championship match down the country. If you look this directly correlates with Dublins recent Leinster Successes and now AI successes? It's only natural that a team who play at home (and do it now more often) will do better than visiting teams. I was going to say you are fighting a losing battle, but in reality it is us who are the losers. As for Dublin having an advantage over Mayo, What do you think? No travel arrangements, really familiar ground, Own house and bed the night before. But I'm not arguing about Finals. Finals have to be in Croke Park. I'm looking at the (so called) smaller games!
Scorelines will be the same. Most of the dublin lads would be very familiar with Portaloise, Tullamore and Navan. Played there multiple times at underage.
Kildare don't have a ground capable of holding even 10,000 and you want to move an 60-70k crowd to it? That's just not feasible.
Bring it on. I look forward to ripping the piss out of some of the naysayers. A lot of these lads have gone to Nowlan Park and beaten Kilkenny underage hurling teams in their home patch- the hardest challenge in sport.
Do you honestly think going down to play div3 and div4 teams in their own patch would bother them? I'd love a few road trips a year anyway.
If Kerry had done the double no-one would give a shit. But the reality is this is an Independent Media conspiracy run by Kerrymen who are worried that their status is going down the toilet. And the other counties are happy to buy into it.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2014, 07:43:25 AM
Bring it on. I look forward to ripping the piss out of some of the naysayers. A lot of these lads have gone to Nowlan Park and beaten Kilkenny underage hurling teams in their home patch- the hardest challenge in sport.
Down hurlers did this too, but at senior level and to relegate Kilkenny into Div2, even DJ couldn't save the day!!
Lads ye are not getting the point. This is all about familiarity. True ye will still more than likely beat Div 3 and Div 4 teams in their own patch. Every game no matter how minor gives ye a distinct advantage of having a game under yer belt in Croke park before ye get to the bigger games, which other counties have wait for and earn. I don't see where the hostility is coming from. It would be great for the wider community as the wealth would be spread across the province. I'm sure Dublin fans would like to see the Blue army descend with colour on towns and take them over for the day.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 25, 2014, 09:48:13 AM
Lads ye are not getting the point. This is all about familiarity. True ye will still more than likely beat Div 3 and Div 4 teams in their own patch. Every game no matter how minor gives ye a distinct advantage of having a game under yer belt in Croke park before ye get to the bigger games, which other counties have wait for and earn. I don't see where the hostility is coming from. It would be great for the wider community as the wealth would be spread across the province. I'm sure Dublin fans would like to see the Blue army descend with colour on towns and take them over for the day.
So only the Leinster Final would be in Croke Park??
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 25, 2014, 09:48:13 AM
Lads ye are not getting the point. This is all about familiarity. True ye will still more than likely beat Div 3 and Div 4 teams in their own patch. Every game no matter how minor gives ye a distinct advantage of having a game under yer belt in Croke park before ye get to the bigger games, which other counties have wait for and earn. I don't see where the hostility is coming from. It would be great for the wider community as the wealth would be spread across the province. I'm sure Dublin fans would like to see the Blue army descend with colour on towns and take them over for the day.
do you accept then that teams(good ones) travelling to Croker have a different kind of motivational advantage in a 'let's go up here and get stuck into the dubs and silence them on their own patch' ?
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 24, 2014, 08:10:21 PM
I avoid going to Dublin as much as possible as all you get is abused by junkies, why would I sign up to that site for the same treatmeant?
seek and you'll find ! Or maybe because the lads over there know Dublin gaa and would wipe the floor with your argument!
;D I deal with indisputable facts, you can't argue with them.
Junkies native to every town in Ireland. Nows where the ignore button
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 25, 2014, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 24, 2014, 08:10:21 PM
I avoid going to Dublin as much as possible as all you get is abused by junkies, why would I sign up to that site for the same treatmeant?
seek and you'll find ! Or maybe because the lads over there know Dublin gaa and would wipe the floor with your argument!
;D I deal with indisputable facts, you can't argue with them.
no you don't ! You are economical with the truth to further your agenda and when questions are put to you you fail to answer them. When you put up exactly what the money given to Dublin was actually spent on you may gain some creedance, until then however your argument and so called facts lie in the realms of fiction.
Incidentally Laois has the highest number of methadone users per capita in Ireland!
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 24, 2014, 11:25:04 PM
Bernard brogan as we all know has never played a champo game outside croker
Any of the potential teams to play Dublin outside croker in the Leinster champo wouldn't jane a hope of beating Dublin regardless of venue
Laois Wexford Wicklow etc
A fixture against either Meath or Kildare gas to be played in croker as both fixtures would draw at least 45k
There wouldn't be much advantage playing Kildare in croker as they have/had players like johnny Doyle that has played there not once not twice but 34 times. Teams raise their game playing in croker especially against Dublin
All this Dublin home advantage, Dublin sponsorship, Dublin have all the money malarkey smacks to me of jealousy and begrudgery, wasn't a problem a few years ago when Dublin were being humiliated in croker to wails of country delight.
These days we choke on all Ireland medals.
Swings and roundabouts with the emergence and decline of great teams. All pretenders to dublins throne would be better off to stop concentrating their moans on Dublin and knuckle down to beat us on the pitch.
They'd find it difficult to beat Dublin anywhere because of the money situation but counties like Laois, Wexford or Wicklow would have a better chance in their home venue. Remember the last time Dublin played a championship game outside Croke Park, Longford should have beaten them. Also, in the years preceding the Dubs turning professional, Westmeath and Laois beat them. They'd find it very difficult to do it now, that's the unfairness of the money situation for you.
Clearly the Dubs don't care about this unfairness, they celebrate it but also they have huge disrespect for other counties. They aren't good enough to beat us in their grounds anyway so don't make us waste our time going there. This Dub here is even trying to claim playing at home in every single championship game for 8 years is not an advantage. ;D
Then it's that everyone else is begrudging us. :D They see having a multi million euro system as their right, it's only proper that they play every game at home they think, sure don't all the culchies love a day out in Dubilan and they get the honour of playing the Dubs in their home patch. ;D
This is what happens when you start feeding a county millions of euro, success obviously comes and they get too big for their boots. They even wanted to be granted Provincial status. It's gone way too far, with the sponsorship they're getting along with everything else they are out of control. Dublin county board are dealing with 8 figure sums while some other county boards are dealing with 5. Splitting them is the only option left.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on April 24, 2014, 11:50:15 PM
Earn the right! Are you serious? What a load of self serving nonsense. Personally I couldn't give a toss where we play. We are fortunate to have a team at the minute who will beat any team in leinster where ever the game is played.
In fact most Dublin supporters would be more than happy to play outside Dublin. We did it for many years and in all that time rarely lost a game So if that's what you're hoping for you'll be waiting
Our fellow counties in leinster might in fact tire of this quickly as they find not only will they still lose to Dublin but their share of ticket monies will also go down significantly. Turkey's voting for Christmas and all that.
You know your only winning Leinster most years and challenging for All Irelands because of the money don't you?
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2014, 07:43:25 AM
Scorelines will be the same. Most of the dublin lads would be very familiar with Portaloise, Tullamore and Navan. Played there multiple times at underage.
Kildare don't have a ground capable of holding even 10,000 and you want to move an 60-70k crowd to it? That's just not feasible.
Bring it on. I look forward to ripping the piss out of some of the naysayers. A lot of these lads have gone to Nowlan Park and beaten Kilkenny underage hurling teams in their home patch- the hardest challenge in sport.
Do you honestly think going down to play div3 and div4 teams in their own patch would bother them? I'd love a few road trips a year anyway.
If Kerry had done the double no-one would give a shit. But the reality is this is an Independent Media conspiracy run by Kerrymen who are worried that their status is going down the toilet. And the other counties are happy to buy into it.
Beating Kilkenny in Nowlan Park in underage hurling. How did this come about? Out of nowhere you started producing hurlers to beat Kilkenny. Mad stuff. Started improving from 2005 did you? What could have happened around then that improved Dublin hurling so much that you now can beat Kilkenny hurlers. Hmmmmm must have been something big. You don't think it had anything to do with millions upon millions being pumped into Dublin GAA do you? Noooooooo, couldn't possibly be that. ;D Thing is, you still boast about the victories even though they are tainted. It'd be like Michelle Smith gloating about her Olympic medals.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 25, 2014, 09:48:13 AM
Lads ye are not getting the point. This is all about familiarity. True ye will still more than likely beat Div 3 and Div 4 teams in their own patch. Every game no matter how minor gives ye a distinct advantage of having a game under yer belt in Croke park before ye get to the bigger games, which other counties have wait for and earn. I don't see where the hostility is coming from. It would be great for the wider community as the wealth would be spread across the province. I'm sure Dublin fans would like to see the Blue army descend with colour on towns and take them over for the day.
Ofcourse it's a huge advantage. If any other county in Ireland had every game at home it would be a huge advantage for them aswell. How can this even be questioned?
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 25, 2014, 10:29:06 AM
do you accept then that teams(good ones) travelling to Croker have a different kind of motivational advantage in a 'let's go up here and get stuck into the dubs and silence them on their own patch' ?
Oh, here's how it can be questioned. It's a thrill for the culchies to play the great Dubs in Croker. ;D
Quote from: northsideboy on April 25, 2014, 10:43:44 AM
Junkies native to every town in Ireland. Nows where the ignore button
That's right, Dubs spreading around the country, bringing their smack to every town. Pity we don't have an ignore button when they're trying to rob us.
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 25, 2014, 10:49:33 AM
no you don't ! You are economical with the truth to further your agenda and when questions are put to you you fail to answer them. When you put up exactly what the money given to Dublin was actually spent on you may gain some creedance, until then however your argument and so called facts lie in the realms of fiction.
Incidentally Laois has the highest number of methadone users per capita in Ireland!
I don't have Dublin County Boards accounts at hand. There's millions of euros entering their accounts though, while most county boards are dealing in thousands.
You know how many Dubs there are in Laois now? Well the huge increase in methadone users per capita will tell you that there's loads. ;D
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 25, 2014, 11:28:43 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 25, 2014, 10:29:06 AM
do you accept then that teams(good ones) travelling to Croker have a different kind of motivational advantage in a 'let's go up here and get stuck into the dubs and silence them on their own patch' ?
Oh, here's how it can be questioned. It's a thrill for the culchies to play the great Dubs in Croker. ;D
eh most players will admit that it's great if not the greatest occasion for them to beat Dublin in croker. I've already stated that this years first round should have been played in portlaois.
Longford didn't beat Dublin which is an indisputable fact. Your agenda is to split Dublin. And you seem to use every issue to further your cause, a very childish unintelligent and ignorant stance. Have you tried yoga?
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 25, 2014, 11:35:01 AM
eh most players will admit that it's great if not the greatest occasion for them to beat Dublin in croker. I've already stated that this years first round should have been played in portlaois.
Longford didn't beat Dublin which is an indisputable fact. Your agenda is to split Dublin. And you seem to use every issue to further your cause, a very childish unintelligent and ignorant stance. Have you tried yoga?
Dublin have to be split, it's the only way if we want every county competing on an equal footing. The powers that be got scared that day in Pearse Park, they put serious investment in and Dublin nearly lost to Longford. They didn't make the mistake of letting Dublin outside Croke Park after that. That's still in their thinking 8 years later.
Dublin probably have the top yoga instructor on their books. They've been bought nearly everything else anyway.
We must be the only county who prefer Croke Park to our home ground!! I'd say Tyrone are the same going by the state of the pitch in Omagh ;)
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 25, 2014, 11:44:50 AM
We must be the only county who prefer Croke Park to our home ground!! I'd say Tyrone are the same going by the state of the pitch in Omagh ;)
What county are you? Do you think if your county played every championship game at home they'd have an advantage?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 25, 2014, 11:48:09 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 25, 2014, 11:44:50 AM
We must be the only county who prefer Croke Park to our home ground!! I'd say Tyrone are the same going by the state of the pitch in Omagh ;)
What county are you? Do you think if your county played every championship game at home they'd have an advantage?
We'll not go into the discussion of Celtic Park in Derry City. We'd be here all day!!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 25, 2014, 11:50:17 AM
We'll not go into the discussion of Celtic Park in Derry City. We'd be here all day!!
At least you'd be used to the situation. Huge advantage. Then you get half a million euro in games development every year, another half a million in sponsorship, another million from other funds. You'll have the refs in your favour. What could go wrong? Even in Derry.
Anyone looking at this from the outside would think it's absolutely crazy that one team play all their games at home.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 25, 2014, 11:42:23 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 25, 2014, 11:35:01 AM
eh most players will admit that it's great if not the greatest occasion for them to beat Dublin in croker. I've already stated that this years first round should have been played in portlaois.
Longford didn't beat Dublin which is an indisputable fact. Your agenda is to split Dublin. And you seem to use every issue to further your cause, a very childish unintelligent and ignorant stance. Have you tried yoga?
Dublin have to be split, it's the only way if we want every county competing on an equal footing. The powers that be got scared that day in Pearse Park, they put serious investment in and Dublin nearly lost to Longford. They didn't make the mistake of letting Dublin outside Croke Park after that. That's still in their thinking 8 years later.
Dublin probably have the top yoga instructor on their books. They've been bought nearly everything else anyway.
bitter bitter waffle! your only saving grace is you seem to have a good sense of humour!
When spurs play in wen let are they playing at home?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 25, 2014, 11:50:17 AM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 25, 2014, 11:48:09 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 25, 2014, 11:44:50 AM
We must be the only county who prefer Croke Park to our home ground!! I'd say Tyrone are the same going by the state of the pitch in Omagh ;)
What county are you? Do you think if your county played every championship game at home they'd have an advantage?
We'll not go into the discussion of Celtic Park in Derry City. We'd be here all day!!
Leave Celtic Pk out of it! May 25th, Ulster Championship. Wouldn't want the game to be anywhere else.
Don't Matter, you wouldn't happen to be the same Laois chap that pollutes twitter?
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 25, 2014, 12:13:39 PM
bitter bitter waffle! your only saving grace is you seem to have a good sense of humour!
Sometimes the truth can be a bitter but we all must accept it.
Quote from: J OGorman on April 25, 2014, 12:16:43 PM
Don't Matter, you wouldn't happen to be the same Laois chap that pollutes twitter?
I pollute nowhere. I don't even fart. Twitter would be against my nature.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 25, 2014, 12:26:22 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on April 25, 2014, 12:16:43 PM
Don't Matter, you wouldn't happen to be the same Laois chap that pollutes twitter?
I pollute nowhere. I don't even fart. Twitter would be against my nature.
i don't find that funny
My cousin had a rare condition which prevented him from flattulating to the extent that all the pressure built up over the years until eventually it all came out in one go. Poor chap died after 7 years of excruciating pain.
At least he went out with a bang.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 25, 2014, 11:48:09 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 25, 2014, 11:44:50 AM
We must be the only county who prefer Croke Park to our home ground!! I'd say Tyrone are the same going by the state of the pitch in Omagh ;)
What county are you? Do you think if your county played every championship game at home they'd have an advantage?
Some counties set their sights high. Don't lump them all into the underachieving bracket you reside in.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2014, 01:17:32 PM
At least he went out with a bang.
he did indeed! But it wasn't the fart that killed him !
There are a lot of inter-related issues getting mixed together here. I think it would be a good idea to untangle them:
Do Dublin fans want to travel to away games?
Yes. Not bandwagon supporters, obviously, but Dublin fans always travel in numbers playing away. Most Dublin posters here have said they would love some away games over the summer.
Do players from other counties want to play in Croke Park, as opposed to playing in smaller provincial grounds?
I'm not sure, but I would guess that most players would want to play in Croker given the chance.
Is it feasible, financially, for the GAA to put Dublin on the road?
Maybe. But it clearly means sacrificing an almost full Croke Park in the early rounds of Leinster for, say, 15-20,000 attendance elsewhere. That's a big hit, and it would mean less in the way of funding at grassroots level.
Is it an advantage for Dublin to play in Croke Park?
Undeniably.
That of course does not mean that teams not good enough to beat Dublin would beat them outside of Croker. Nor does it mean that Dublin teams that aren't good enough to win it all would magically win just by virtue of playing in Dublin (see 1996-2010). But it does mean that teams at the top tier—where the margins are pretty fine—are put at a slight disadvantage. And that might be enough to swing a tight game in Dublin's favor. Perhaps Kerry might have beaten Dublin in 2011 if the match had been in Semple stadium, for example.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 25, 2014, 05:04:10 PM
There are a lot of inter-related issues getting mixed together here. I think it would be a good idea to untangle them:
Do Dublin fans want to travel to away games?
Yes. Not bandwagon supporters, obviously, but Dublin fans always travel in numbers playing away. Most Dublin posters here have said they would love some away games over the summer.
Do players from other counties want to play in Croke Park, as opposed to playing in smaller provincial grounds?
I'm not sure, but I would guess that most players would want to play in Croker given the chance.
Is it feasible, financially, for the GAA to put Dublin on the road?
Maybe. But it clearly means sacrificing an almost full Croke Park in the early rounds of Leinster for, say, 15-20,000 attendance elsewhere. That's a big hit, and it would mean less in the way of funding at grassroots level.
Is it an advantage for Dublin to play in Croke Park?
Undeniably.
That of course does not mean that teams not good enough to beat Dublin would beat them outside of Croker. Nor does it mean that Dublin teams that aren't good enough to win it all would magically win just by virtue of playing in Dublin (see 1996-2010). But it does mean that teams at the top tier—where the margins are pretty fine—are put at a slight disadvantage. And that might be enough to swing a tight game in Dublin's favor. Perhaps Kerry might have beaten Dublin in 2011 if the match had been in Semple stadium, for example.
And Dublin won the 2009 game perhaps if it was in Semple ???
"Dont Matter" Id say you are a Ted Bundy in the making
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2014, 01:29:26 PM
Some counties set their sights high. Don't lump them all into the underachieving bracket you reside in.
So you don't think other counties should play every championship match at home? Only Dublin.
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 25, 2014, 05:48:18 PM
"Dont Matter" Id say you are a Ted Bundy in the making
;D I'm a serial killer now for pointing out Dublin's cheating. They really don't like the truth of their success being exposed.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 26, 2014, 11:27:04 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2014, 01:29:26 PM
Some counties set their sights high. Don't lump them all into the underachieving bracket you reside in.
So you don't think other counties should play every championship match at home? Only Dublin.
Croke Park is a national stadium. We are not the fixture makers.
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 25, 2014, 12:16:23 PM
When spurs play in wen let are they playing at home?
Wembley, I presume you mean.
Good man - the exact analogy I have used before. Hopefully the penny will drop for you now.
If Spurs played ALL their games in Wembley, yes they are in effect 'at home' and at a competitive advantage. White Hart Lane holds, what, 35-40K and is always full (I think). But a Spurs team doing well, winning things could see 50k+ wanting tickets. So do you move them to the national stadium just to accomodate the spectators? Spurs are in the FA Cup and get drawn away to say, Burnley (promoted to the EPL next year ie at a decent level). But Turf Moor holds only 20K, how will all the Spurs fans get into the game? And what about the lost revenue from all those who could not get tickets? Surely the sensible option is to play the game (and all future games to ensure this does not happen again) at Wembley where there are plenty of tickets for everyone! Burnley won't mind cos its every kids dream to play at Wembley, right? And the Burnley fans don't mind cos they would naturally relish the chance, as gruff Northerners, to get down to the big smoke and have a lash at the soft Southerners on their own patch. What could be better motivation? You would nearly say Burnley are at an advantage here, not Spurs!!
Dublin lads, how ye can try and deflect and deny the advantage your county gets is beyond me. Yes, Dublin are the best in the country at the moment. There has been nothing but praise for their style the last couple of years. I know the real supporters would like to get down the province for LSC games and I know its out of ye're hands but people are only trying to get a bit of recognition out of you that you hold a slight advantage over the competition. To try and claim otherwise is absurd.
Quote from: Ringfort on April 26, 2014, 01:30:12 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 25, 2014, 12:16:23 PM
When spurs play in wen let are they playing at home?
Wembley, I presume you mean.
Good man - the exact analogy I have used before. Hopefully the penny will drop for you now.
If Spurs played ALL their games in Wembley, yes they are in effect 'at home' and at a competitive advantage. White Hart Lane holds, what, 35-40K and is always full (I think). But a Spurs team doing well, winning things could see 50k+ wanting tickets. So do you move them to the national stadium just to accomodate the spectators? Spurs are in the FA Cup and get drawn away to say, Burnley (promoted to the EPL next year ie at a decent level). But Turf Moor holds only 20K, how will all the Spurs fans get into the game? And what about the lost revenue from all those who could not get tickets? Surely the sensible option is to play the game (and all future games to ensure this does not happen again) at Wembley where there are plenty of tickets for everyone! Burnley won't mind cos its every kids dream to play at Wembley, right? And the Burnley fans don't mind cos they would naturally relish the chance, as gruff Northerners, to get down to the big smoke and have a lash at the soft Southerners on their own patch. What could be better motivation? You would nearly say Burnley are at an advantage here, not Spurs!!
Dublin lads, how ye can try and deflect and deny the advantage your county gets is beyond me. Yes, Dublin are the best in the country at the moment. There has been nothing but praise for their style the last couple of years. I know the real supporters would like to get down the province for LSC games and I know its out of ye're hands but people are only trying to get a bit of recognition out of you that you hold a slight advantage over the competition. To try and claim otherwise is absurd.
What do people want us to do though?
Dublin fans would love to play elsewhere. But Croke Park won't forgoe the revenue. I'm fed up going to Croke Park for Leinster Champiosnhip games.
The other side of the coin is that revenue builds a lot of GAA facilities around the country.
We know you as fans cannot do anything about the venue. It is the fault of HQ and to a lesser extent the Dublin CB and the other Leinster counties CB's for not kicking up a stink over it. Money, unfortunately, like everything in modern life, is King.
It would be nice if the Dub fans did not deny and deflect that they are at a competitive advantage though. I hope the campaign builds steam. It is not aimed at genuine Dublin GAA men but the powers that be in HQ.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2014, 01:00:39 PM
Croke Park is a national stadium. We are not the fixture makers.
It's Dublin's home stadium. You haven't objected too hard about having to play every game at home, you've accepted the millions of euro gladly also.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
I've exposed this lad as a Dub in disguise before. Trying so hard to be accepted that he can't say a bad word about them.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2014, 01:38:47 PM
What do people want us to do though?
Dublin fans would love to play elsewhere. But Croke Park won't forgoe the revenue. I'm fed up going to Croke Park for Leinster Champiosnhip games.
The other side of the coin is that revenue builds a lot of GAA facilities around the country.
Millions of euro were invested in Dublin, they wanted a return so everything was done to assist them to get successful and in doing so attract more revenue from gate receipts. That's why Dublin haven't played away from home since Longford 06.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 26, 2014, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
I've exposed this lad as a Dub in disguise before. Trying so hard to be accepted that he can't say a bad word about them.
Lol as they say in text speak!
Enough on the board have met me to know I'm not a Dub and don't pander or dance to anyone else's tune!
An example of this is your response!
Rather than being able to rationalize a proper response to an opinion, perspective or point of view you don't agree with or share - rather than debate or even accept people can and have different opinions to yourself, you instead attempt to undermine the person ( failing spectacularly badly here though!! )
The only think exposed here is your closed mindedness and anti dub agenda as well as lack of class and education.
Think someone said you are from laois- I was going to say 'that figures' but I know a lot of decent Gaels from Laois.
You have a lot of growing up and manners to learn I think - unless you start debating in a more considerate manner, there's no point in trying to talk Gaa stuff with you. Pity as you seem like you are passionate about it!
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 26, 2014, 02:21:21 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2014, 01:38:47 PM
What do people want us to do though?
Dublin fans would love to play elsewhere. But Croke Park won't forgoe the revenue. I'm fed up going to Croke Park for Leinster Champiosnhip games.
The other side of the coin is that revenue builds a lot of GAA facilities around the country.
Millions of euro were invested in Dublin, they wanted a return so everything was done to assist them to get successful and in doing so attract more revenue from gate receipts. That's why Dublin haven't played away from home since Longford 06.
Did you ever play at any level for your county?
If so did you ever or never harbour thoughts of playing in croker ( above your own county ground)?
Please tell us about how money helped Kilkenny dominate hurling?
Please inform of us the players or bionic body parts that money bought for Dublin teams?
When the stadium is totally refurbished in Cork, the GAA may decide to play some of the quarter finals down there. A Cork/Kerry v Dublin quarter/semi final would pack them in I'm sure.
Quote from: Ringfort on April 26, 2014, 01:50:18 PM
We know you as fans cannot do anything about the venue. It is the fault of HQ and to a lesser extent the Dublin CB and the other Leinster counties CB's for not kicking up a stink over it. Money, unfortunately, like everything in modern life, is King.
It would be nice if the Dub fans did not deny and deflect that they are at a competitive advantage though. I hope the campaign builds steam. It is not aimed at genuine Dublin GAA men but the powers that be in HQ.
Dublin have won 52 Leinster titles and for most of the period during which they won these they travelled around Leinster to play their matches with only the Leinster finals being played in Croke Park. It is only in recent years that Dublin have played all their Leinster games in Croke Park so there is nothing to suggest that Dublin would be less successful if the earlier arrangement had prevailed.
For their most successful run in Leinster (six in a row between 1974 and 1979) Dublin played most of their games outside Croke Park. You're chasing shadows lads; don't think you'll catch the Dubs simply by taking them out of Croke Park.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 26, 2014, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
I've exposed this lad as a Dub in disguise before. Trying so hard to be accepted that he can't say a bad word about them.
The only thing you've exposed is what a thundering raving mad lunatic you truly are.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
Who said nobody wants to play there?
What decade have Dublin Rarely been the opposition for Semis and Finals?
Just because Kilkennys had success has does this mean that Money will not buy you success?
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2014, 06:39:23 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 26, 2014, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
I've exposed this lad as a Dub in disguise before. Trying so hard to be accepted that he can't say a bad word about them.
The only thing you've exposed is what a thundering raving mad lunatic you truly are.
Well said...........................................and a bigoted racist to boot
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
Who said nobody wants to play there?
What decade have Dublin Rarely been the opposition for Semis and Finals?
Just because Kilkennys had success has does this mean that Money will not buy you success?
My point is that everyone wants to play there.
Ask any Kildare, Meath, Galway, limerick or ulster lad would they prefer to play in their home venue or croker and I'd expect the majority would prefer croker.
Many reasons for that- over riding any potential home adv they might get.
80's, 90's Meath were the team so Dublin rarely got out of Leinster.
Since the qualifiers Dublin have fared better but was it 3 or 4 all Ireland's in 30 years I think- hardly domination in football.
In quarter finals , semi finals final etc only one team could possibly meet Dublin- so yes, Dublin are rarely the opposition for all teams!!!
Money hasn't bought success for all the teams winning Sam or Liam over the past few decades- so why so Dublin ( or is it people want to pick on them).
I'm not a dub , but fair is fair for fecks sake!!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
Who said nobody wants to play there?
What decade have Dublin Rarely been the opposition for Semis and Finals?
Just because Kilkennys had success has does this mean that Money will not buy you success?
My point is that everyone wants to play there.
Ask any Kildare, Meath, Galway, limerick or ulster lad would they prefer to play in their home venue or croker and I'd expect the majority would prefer croker.
Many reasons for that- over riding any potential home adv they might get.
80's, 90's Meath were the team so Dublin rarely got out of Leinster.
Since the qualifiers Dublin have fared better but was it 3 or 4 all Ireland's in 30 years I think- hardly domination in football.
In quarter finals , semi finals final etc only one team could possibly meet Dublin- so yes, Dublin are rarely the opposition for all teams!!!
Money hasn't bought success for all the teams winning Sam or Liam over the past few decades- so why so Dublin ( or is it people want to pick on them).
I'm not a dub , but fair is fair for fecks sake!!
Not to detract from the main point of the thread, but you might want to rethink the bolded bit.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
Who said nobody wants to play there?
What decade have Dublin Rarely been the opposition for Semis and Finals?
Just because Kilkennys had success has does this mean that Money will not buy you success?
My point is that everyone wants to play there.
Ask any Kildare, Meath, Galway, limerick or ulster lad would they prefer to play in their home venue or croker and I'd expect the majority would prefer croker.
Many reasons for that- over riding any potential home adv they might get.
80's, 90's Meath were the team so Dublin rarely got out of Leinster.
Since the qualifiers Dublin have fared better but was it 3 or 4 all Ireland's in 30 years I think- hardly domination in football.
In quarter finals , semi finals final etc only one team could possibly meet Dublin- so yes, Dublin are rarely the opposition for all teams!!!
Money hasn't bought success for all the teams winning Sam or Liam over the past few decades- so why so Dublin ( or is it people want to pick on them).
I'm not a dub , but fair is fair for fecks sake!!
Dublin won Leinster titles 1983, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, Rare?
Dublin in AI finals 83, 84, 85, 92, 94, 95 Rare?
As for the horse sh!t that because a team are really want to play in Croker or Really want to beat the Dubs is enough to beat them. Well you are very naive. If you think a Team who play all year round on a pitch, in front of a home crowd, on a distinct playing ground, on a ground that is bigger than most, that is on their doorstep. How could Dublin not have an advantage? It's only natural?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 09:54:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
Who said nobody wants to play there?
What decade have Dublin Rarely been the opposition for Semis and Finals?
Just because Kilkennys had success has does this mean that Money will not buy you success?
My point is that everyone wants to play there.
Ask any Kildare, Meath, Galway, limerick or ulster lad would they prefer to play in their home venue or croker and I'd expect the majority would prefer croker.
Many reasons for that- over riding any potential home adv they might get.
80's, 90's Meath were the team so Dublin rarely got out of Leinster.
Since the qualifiers Dublin have fared better but was it 3 or 4 all Ireland's in 30 years I think- hardly domination in football.
In quarter finals , semi finals final etc only one team could possibly meet Dublin- so yes, Dublin are rarely the opposition for all teams!!!
Money hasn't bought success for all the teams winning Sam or Liam over the past few decades- so why so Dublin ( or is it people want to pick on them).
I'm not a dub , but fair is fair for fecks sake!!
Dublin won Leinster titles 1983, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, Rare?
Dublin in AI finals 83, 84, 85, 92, 94, 95 Rare?
As for the horse sh!t that because a team are really want to play in Croker or Really want to beat the Dubs is enough to beat them. Well you are very naive. If you think a Team who play all year round on a pitch, in front of a home crowd, on a distinct playing ground, on a ground that is bigger than most, that is on their doorstep. How could Dublin not have an advantage? It's only natural?
Ah Ha. The first sense of bullshit that Croke Park is bigger then other pitches. Common misconception old bean.
Antrim Casement Park 145.0 90.0
Donegal McCumhaill Park 145.0 90.0
Armagh Athletic Grounds 143.0 88.0
Mionaghan St Tiernach's Park 142.0 87.0
Tyrone Healy Park 142.0 86.0
Cavan Breffni Park 142.5 85.5
Fermangh Brewster Park 145.0 83.0
Derry Celtic Park 138.1 84.1
Down Pairc Esler 137.8 80.7
Clare Cusack Park 145 90
Tipperary Semple Stadium 145 90
Cork Pairc Ui Rinn 145 88
Pairc Ui Chaoimh 144 88
Kerry Fitzgerald Stadium 144 82
Waterford Walsh Park 142 80
Limerick Gaelic Grounds 137 82
Galway Pearse Stadium 145 90
Roscommon Dr Hyde Park 145 90
Sligo Markievicz Park 142 90
Leitrim Pairc Sean Mac Diarmada 142 87
Mayo McHale Park 137 82
CROKE PARK IS 144M IN LENGTH AND 86M WIDE. READ MY LIPS!
http://www.crokepark.ie/about/pitch
In all fairness, Dublin should be knocked down, carried away, rotavated and reseeded.
Quote from: Whishtup on April 26, 2014, 11:05:39 PM
In all fairness, Dublin should be knocked down, carried away, rotavated and reseeded.
;D ;D ;D I love Culchies !
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2014, 10:56:56 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 09:54:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
Who said nobody wants to play there?
What decade have Dublin Rarely been the opposition for Semis and Finals?
Just because Kilkennys had success has does this mean that Money will not buy you success?
My point is that everyone wants to play there.
Ask any Kildare, Meath, Galway, limerick or ulster lad would they prefer to play in their home venue or croker and I'd expect the majority would prefer croker.
Many reasons for that- over riding any potential home adv they might get.
80's, 90's Meath were the team so Dublin rarely got out of Leinster.
Since the qualifiers Dublin have fared better but was it 3 or 4 all Ireland's in 30 years I think- hardly domination in football.
In quarter finals , semi finals final etc only one team could possibly meet Dublin- so yes, Dublin are rarely the opposition for all teams!!!
Money hasn't bought success for all the teams winning Sam or Liam over the past few decades- so why so Dublin ( or is it people want to pick on them).
I'm not a dub , but fair is fair for fecks sake!!
Dublin won Leinster titles 1983, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, Rare?
Dublin in AI finals 83, 84, 85, 92, 94, 95 Rare?
As for the horse sh!t that because a team are really want to play in Croker or Really want to beat the Dubs is enough to beat them. Well you are very naive. If you think a Team who play all year round on a pitch, in front of a home crowd, on a distinct playing ground, on a ground that is bigger than most, that is on their doorstep. How could Dublin not have an advantage? It's only natural?
Ah Ha. The first sense of bullshit that Croke Park is bigger then other pitches. Common misconception old bean.
Antrim Casement Park 145.0 90.0
Donegal McCumhaill Park 145.0 90.0
Armagh Athletic Grounds 143.0 88.0
Mionaghan St Tiernach's Park 142.0 87.0
Tyrone Healy Park 142.0 86.0
Cavan Breffni Park 142.5 85.5
Fermangh Brewster Park 145.0 83.0
Derry Celtic Park 138.1 84.1
Down Pairc Esler 137.8 80.7
Clare Cusack Park 145 90
Tipperary Semple Stadium 145 90
Cork Pairc Ui Rinn 145 88
Pairc Ui Chaoimh 144 88
Kerry Fitzgerald Stadium 144 82
Waterford Walsh Park 142 80
Limerick Gaelic Grounds 137 82
Galway Pearse Stadium 145 90
Roscommon Dr Hyde Park 145 90
Sligo Markievicz Park 142 90
Leitrim Pairc Sean Mac Diarmada 142 87
Mayo McHale Park 137 82
CROKE PARK IS 144M IN LENGTH AND 86M WIDE. READ MY LIPS!
http://www.crokepark.ie/about/pitch
;D
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 09:54:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
Who said nobody wants to play there?
What decade have Dublin Rarely been the opposition for Semis and Finals?
Just because Kilkennys had success has does this mean that Money will not buy you success?
My point is that everyone wants to play there.
Ask any Kildare, Meath, Galway, limerick or ulster lad would they prefer to play in their home venue or croker and I'd expect the majority would prefer croker.
Many reasons for that- over riding any potential home adv they might get.
80's, 90's Meath were the team so Dublin rarely got out of Leinster.
Since the qualifiers Dublin have fared better but was it 3 or 4 all Ireland's in 30 years I think- hardly domination in football.
In quarter finals , semi finals final etc only one team could possibly meet Dublin- so yes, Dublin are rarely the opposition for all teams!!!
Money hasn't bought success for all the teams winning Sam or Liam over the past few decades- so why so Dublin ( or is it people want to pick on them).
I'm not a dub , but fair is fair for fecks sake!!
Dublin won Leinster titles 1983, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, Rare?
Dublin in AI finals 83, 84, 85, 92, 94, 95 Rare?
As for the horse sh!t that because a team are really want to play in Croker or Really want to beat the Dubs is enough to beat them. Well you are very naive. If you think a Team who play all year round on a pitch, in front of a home crowd, on a distinct playing ground, on a ground that is bigger than most, that is on their doorstep. How could Dublin not have an advantage? It's only natural?
Six out of 20+
Maybe not the definition of rare but certainly not dominance like the Kilkenny cats in hurling - but I don't see any whinge about them....
Did you play? Did your aspirations finish at your county ground?
No one I know who was decent and competitive set their sights so low!
I know playing in newbridge or navan for the county was not the extent oft ambitions or any of my team mates!
Ask any players - esp intercounty ones and I expect you will get the same answer!
Also - as the qf, semis and finals are generally played in croker - ALL teams want to get there In Order to acclimatize and get used to playing at croker.
Demanding home advantage when croker is an option is short sightedness at its best!
Sure the ulster final played at croke park was largely to get the players au fait with croker as much as reaping in larger gate receipts!
I know the likes of Carlow were bemoaning the fact that they never got the chance to play at hq!
Again- why no whinge at Kilkenny , did money fuel their dominance?
Did money fuel Kerry's football dominance ?
Jello - thanks for pointing that out- however Meath were still better ! ;)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 27, 2014, 01:08:22 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 09:54:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 26, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
All players want to play in croke park!
From underage to adult - hurling, football, camogie and ladies football!
Sure ever soccer and rugby would still want tobplaybthere ( for extra revenue!)
Any team that wants success , has to play in croker as that's where the semis and finals are played!
In past few decades Dublin have rarely been the opposition!
Sports people are competitive so want to play there!
Money wasn't the factor behind kilkenny's dominance in hurling !!
Time, coaching and focus were the factors - same as dublins rising - ya can't buy players!
Who said nobody wants to play there?
What decade have Dublin Rarely been the opposition for Semis and Finals?
Just because Kilkennys had success has does this mean that Money will not buy you success?
My point is that everyone wants to play there.
Ask any Kildare, Meath, Galway, limerick or ulster lad would they prefer to play in their home venue or croker and I'd expect the majority would prefer croker.
Many reasons for that- over riding any potential home adv they might get.
80's, 90's Meath were the team so Dublin rarely got out of Leinster.
Since the qualifiers Dublin have fared better but was it 3 or 4 all Ireland's in 30 years I think- hardly domination in football.
In quarter finals , semi finals final etc only one team could possibly meet Dublin- so yes, Dublin are rarely the opposition for all teams!!!
Money hasn't bought success for all the teams winning Sam or Liam over the past few decades- so why so Dublin ( or is it people want to pick on them).
I'm not a dub , but fair is fair for fecks sake!!
Dublin won Leinster titles 1983, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, Rare?
Dublin in AI finals 83, 84, 85, 92, 94, 95 Rare?
As for the horse sh!t that because a team are really want to play in Croker or Really want to beat the Dubs is enough to beat them. Well you are very naive. If you think a Team who play all year round on a pitch, in front of a home crowd, on a distinct playing ground, on a ground that is bigger than most, that is on their doorstep. How could Dublin not have an advantage? It's only natural?
Six out of 20+
Maybe not the definition of rare but certainly not dominance like the Kilkenny cats in hurling - but I don't see any whinge about them....
Did you play? Did your aspirations finish at your county ground?
No one I know who was decent and competitive set their sights so low!
I know playing in newbridge or navan for the county was not the extent oft ambitions or any of my team mates!
Ask any players - esp intercounty ones and I expect you will get the same answer!
Also - as the qf, semis and finals are generally played in croker - ALL teams want to get there In Order to acclimatize and get used to playing at croker.
Demanding home advantage when croker is an option is short sightedness at its best!
Sure the ulster final played at croke park was largely to get the players au fait with croker as much as reaping in larger gate receipts!
I know the likes of Carlow were bemoaning the fact that they never got the chance to play at hq!
Again- why no whinge at Kilkenny , did money fuel their dominance?
Did money fuel Kerry's football dominance ?
Jello - thanks for pointing that out- however Meath were still better ! ;)
Count those Leinster's again, Lynchboy! Certainly Meath were better at certain points over those 20 years, but Dublin were better at other points. Dublin had more Leinsters and an equal # of AIF appearances (though fewer All-Irelands) than Meath over the two decades.
It's only all Ireland's that count!! Meath were still better is all I will say!!
;)
As for the rest- to be honest it's a moot point
Dublin have some bit of an adv due to proximity and familiarity
But all key games are played there and any player/team worth their salt want to play there.
I know I was pssed off when croker was closed in 1988 to us and our all Ireland fresher final was relocated elsewhere!
Plus when someone can respond as to why there's no whinge at Kilkenny and Kerry's dominance without money to back this or players bought- I may respond!
Some eejits and closed minded people on here - plus others who could channel their undoubted passion to more positive effect!!
Lynchbhoy. You are either simple or are wilfully missing the point. DUBLIN PLAY EVERY GAME AT HOME. NO ONE ELSE DOES.
Why are you harping on about where players might want to play. It's immaterial. Emlyn Mulligan has never played in CP as far as I know. Should Leitrim v Ros be played at CP cos he wants to play there? Players do not choose where the games are on so please drop that line.
As for Kerry and Kilkenny. They dominated through tradition and excellence. No unfair advantages, they just prepared themselves better than everyone else. That's why no one is complaining. Yet Dublin are now a top tier hurling side, will prob win an AI soon enough, and that is all through 'games development' in the capital ie FUNDING. That is artificial success.
The footballers have a near professional set up. They have the population and profile to attract significant outside sponsorship to pay for this so good luck to them. It is scandalous they get the added advantage of every game at home as well. Did you read my previous analogy? What if the likes of Spurs or Arsenal played EVERY FA Cup game at Wembley?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 27, 2014, 01:25:17 AM
It's only all Ireland's that count!! Meath were still better is all I will say!!
;)
As for the rest- to be honest it's a moot point
Dublin have some bit of an adv due to proximity and familiarity
But all key games are played there and any player/team worth their salt want to play there.
I know I was pssed off when croker was closed in 1988 to us and our all Ireland fresher final was relocated elsewhere!
Plus when someone can respond as to why there's no whinge at Kilkenny and Kerry's dominance without money to back this or players bought- I may respond!
Some eejits and closed minded people on here - plus others who could channel their undoubted passion to more positive effect!!
If by some freak state of affairs, Derry drew Dublin in the qualifiers to play at Celtic park, I'm led to believe that Derry would/should concede home advantage, traipse all the way to Dublin and expect their supporters to do the same, because it's a players ambition to play in Croke Park? ::)
If Monaghan county board conceded home advantage to Dublin, I'd expect them to be chucked into Lough Major in a sack with some heavy rocks.
On finance, Kilkenny are a cash rich county, I think they are even richer than Dublin and Kerry are not that far behind them both.
Kerry are also cute hoors when it come to things like raising cash for the pursuit of Sam.
Ringfort, I'd suggest that Kilkenny have an "unfair" advantage over other hurling counties in that they don't even bother paying lip service to football - they just don't promote it and no one pulls them up on it (there were murmurs of this during their five in a row run but it didn't get traction). As for Kilkenny and Kerry dominating through tradition and excellence, to infer that Dublin did not triumph through traditon and excellence is just manure lads.
The Brogan's dad has three All Ireland medals, their uncle was on the same panel and was a selector on various successful teams. Pat Gilroy's father was intsrumental in St. Vincent's success, Pat has a medal from 95, whilst his selector Mickey Whelan is a direct link back to the fifties era of Dublin men for Dublin teams. David Hickey served as a selector in our 2011 triumph and Mick Deegan was an All Ireland winner in 95 and serves now. James McCarthy is the son of the famous Maccer, Jack McCaffrey links back to 83 through his father Noel. Going further back Pillar Caffrey who was a selector when Alan Brogan broke in to the team in 2002, is a brother to John Caffrey, a sub in 83, who would have been over teams in St. Declan's that brought on the likes of Senan Connell and the three Brogan brothers.
If any other county's team had such a rich web of connections, tradition and excellence there would be two page spreads in the Sunday Indo, pictures of flint-eyed men staring over Atlantic waves and banging on about how football is in their blood, they are rooted in the land etc etc
However because they are Dubs they are merely gym monkeys who bought their success and rely on a home advantage to cheat their way to titles.
Please, give us all a break.
Anyway, 15 points - Lord Jaysis what a team.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 28, 2014, 11:12:49 AM
Ringfort, I'd suggest that Kilkenny have an "unfair" advantage over other hurling counties in that they don't even bother paying lip service to football - they just don't promote it and no one pulls them up on it (there were murmurs of this during their five in a row run but it didn't get traction). As for Kilkenny and Kerry dominating through tradition and excellence, to infer that Dublin did not triumph through traditon and excellence is just manure lads.
The Brogan's dad has three All Ireland medals, their uncle was on the same panel and was a selector on various successful teams. Pat Gilroy's father was intsrumental in St. Vincent's success, Pat has a medal from 95, whilst his selector Mickey Whelan is a direct link back to the fifties era of Dublin men for Dublin teams. David Hickey served as a selector in our 2011 triumph and Mick Deegan was an All Ireland winner in 95 and serves now. James McCarthy is the son of the famous Maccer, Jack McCaffrey links back to 83 through his father Noel. Going further back Pillar Caffrey who was a selector when Alan Brogan broke in to the team in 2002, is a brother to John Caffrey, a sub in 83, who would have been over teams in St. Declan's that brought on the likes of Senan Connell and the three Brogan brothers.
If any other county's team had such a rich web of connections, tradition and excellence there would be two page spreads in the Sunday Indo, pictures of flint-eyed men staring over Atlantic waves and banging on about how football is in their blood, they are rooted in the land etc etc
However because they are Dubs they are merely gym monkeys who bought their success and rely on a home advantage to cheat their way to titles.
Please, give us all a break.
Anyway, 15 points - Lord Jaysis what a team.
Yeah, agree with ya that Dublin have a tradition (and a proud one at that). Often over looked as they don't have the small town heroes that rural Counties have.
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2014, 01:21:36 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 27, 2014, 01:25:17 AM
It's only all Ireland's that count!! Meath were still better is all I will say!!
;)
As for the rest- to be honest it's a moot point
Dublin have some bit of an adv due to proximity and familiarity
But all key games are played there and any player/team worth their salt want to play there.
I know I was pssed off when croker was closed in 1988 to us and our all Ireland fresher final was relocated elsewhere!
Plus when someone can respond as to why there's no whinge at Kilkenny and Kerry's dominance without money to back this or players bought- I may respond!
Some eejits and closed minded people on here - plus others who could channel their undoubted passion to more positive effect!!
If by some freak state of affairs, Derry drew Dublin in the qualifiers to play at Celtic park, I'm led to believe that Derry would/should concede home advantage, traipse all the way to Dublin and expect their supporters to do the same, because it's a players ambition to play in Croke Park? ::)
If Monaghan county board conceded home advantage to Dublin, I'd expect them to be chucked into Lough Major in a sack with some heavy rocks.
On finance, Kilkenny are a cash rich county, I think they are even richer than Dublin and Kerry are not that far behind them both.
Kerry are also cute hoors when it come to things like raising cash for the pursuit of Sam.
that did happen about 10 years ago and the powers that be moved it to Clones!
Interesting debate firstly I think everyone acknowledges Dublin's traditions, heritage, culture and philosophy when it comes to football, 2nd only to Kerry of that no one can argue.
For anyone interested in sport in general you should read Soccernomics by Simon Kuper because a lot of models spoken off in that are applicable to Dublin GAA, from population size to money invested on preparing teams.
Anyhow they discuss home advantage in the book and for International football, statistical analysis will show that in soccer terms home advantage is worth approximately 0.6 goals per game or in effect you start two out of every three games with a goal start. In fact they also show that being a large country with a healthy economy is only worth a tenth of a goal. So for Dublin being rich and large isn't that big an advantage certainly not compared to home advantage.
Another big advantage Dublin are starting to have over other teams is experience, very evident yesterday, have twice as much experience as the opposition is worth in International football 0.5 of a goal.
So conservatively speaking in a one off game these statistics would be nonsense but spread out over a series of games and you will see Dublin probably have a 6/7 point advantage before a ball is even kicked.
The GAA need to reassess their values, for me personally Leinster Finals, AI semi-finals, National League finals and obviously AI finals should only be played in Croke Park. And if the Corporates kick up, 'so f**king what', I always thought the GAA was backboned by socialist ideals, at the moment it looks like all sides are equal some are just more equal than others.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 07, 2014, 08:15:01 PM
Do we have it in any other sport? Can you imagine Man Utd with such an advantage? Bayern Munich? Munster (in rugby)? God even Celtic with a whole season of home games in the league and Cup, they'd be unbackable? On top of all this there is economics and convenience for the fans. Is there a work around? Not really. The authorities that be are naturally concerned about making money and making as much as possible. So the chasing bunch will have to just work around this disadvantage each year?
Indeed, Mayo would have landed 10 AI's by now if Dublin didn't play games at Croke Park.
Tip for Mayo 2014. If ye need a goal to salvage an AI final, then go for a goal. Knocking over a couple of consoliation points for a ' we only lost by one point' stance lacks ambition.
Of course , the game being played at Croke Park was the real reason Dublin won. Least all the other finals you lost were fair and square. (although Meath's proximity to Croke Park should be questioned)
Time to focus on real football issues. Let this one go and knuckle down.
Not sure about your extrapolation of 6/7 points advantage Dinny, but I certainly agree that familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance. I was nearly killed for saying this before, but playing all your championship games in Croke Park for several years, and now half your league games or more, has got to give new Dub players a sense of confidence and comfort. Routine is huge for many players, and having a set routine for every big game you play has to be an advantage.
Having said that, I'm sure the Dubs would be happy to play down the country in the early rounds of the championship, and it's not the reason why they are winning all round them at the moment, but it is a help and anyone who denies that is being deliberately contrarian, or is burying their head in the sand.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 11:58:56 AM
Not sure about your extrapolation of 6/7 points advantage Dinny, but I certainly agree that familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance. I was nearly killed for saying this before, but playing all your championship games in Croke Park for several years, and now half your league games or more, has got to give new Dub players a sense of confidence and comfort. Routine is huge for many players, and having a set routine for every big game you play has to be an advantage.
Having said that, I'm sure the Dubs would be happy to play down the country in the early rounds of the championship, and it's not the reason why they are winning all round them at the moment, but it is a help and anyone who denies that is being deliberately contrarian, or is burying their head in the sand.
Not sure of that myself just picked it out of the sky to exaggerate a point, we can look at the reasons why home advantage is such but it can't be denied that much I know.
I don't blame Dublin and no it's only a factor in many and why would they give up a competitive advantage they have a county board with a spine and are doing best for Dublin GAA.
I suppose it all started out with the laudable aim of getting more young people in Dublin playing Gaelic Games. Getting more people everywhere in Ireland playing our games is what the GAA should be all about.
Next step was to give young people in dublin another sporting "brand" to get into in opposition to the Leinster rubby "brand".
This gave us the "Spring Series" of 4 or 5 big GAA nights in Croker and then with Dublin footballers playing 5 or 6 Summer championship games in Croker we were able to rival the Rubbys by having a big team playing loads of games in a big stadium just as regularly as the Leinster crowd. (When will Galway/Limerick/Antrim/Cork get a similar arrangement to rival their rubby opponents).
Have we now created a "monster" which could destroy all semblance of competition where we'll end up like the Scotch Soccer league with one team so far ahead of the rest that things will start to crumble?
The Leinster SFC is now simply a Dublin cash raising thing for the Leinster Council as the attendances( and standards??) have dropped alarmingly at most LSFC games. ( 3,000 at Westmeath v Carlow around the same for Wicklow/Longford compared to 5 figure attendances at the likes of Cavan/Fermanagh or Ros Leitrim).
I hope we don't go back to the days of 17,000 and 19,000 at AI Semis as we had back in the 80s because the games had become so one sided.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 11:58:56 AM
Not sure about your extrapolation of 6/7 points advantage Dinny, but I certainly agree that familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance. I was nearly killed for saying this before, but playing all your championship games in Croke Park for several years, and now half your league games or more, has got to give new Dub players a sense of confidence and comfort. Routine is huge for many players, and having a set routine for every big game you play has to be an advantage.
Having said that, I'm sure the Dubs would be happy to play down the country in the early rounds of the championship, and it's not the reason why they are winning all round them at the moment, but it is a help and anyone who denies that is being deliberately contrarian, or is burying their head in the sand.
Not sure of that myself just picked it out of the sky to exaggerate a point, we can look at the reasons why home advantage is such but it can't be denied that much I know.
I don't blame Dublin and no it's only a factor in many and why would they give up a competitive advantage they have a county board with a spine and are doing best for Dublin GAA.
I do get the points made on this but not sure on the relevance.
Gooch gave as good as display as I have seen v Dublin at CP in that first half last year.
There's been many huge performaces against us there – Cavanagh, Canavan, Mcconville, Mcdonald, too many Meath players to mention and Micko's Kildare and Laois teams.
Reasons were quality and team work more than location.
Give 'em a ball and a yard of grass and location shouldn't matter that much.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 11:58:56 AM
Not sure about your extrapolation of 6/7 points advantage Dinny, but I certainly agree that familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance. I was nearly killed for saying this before, but playing all your championship games in Croke Park for several years, and now half your league games or more, has got to give new Dub players a sense of confidence and comfort. Routine is huge for many players, and having a set routine for every big game you play has to be an advantage.
Having said that, I'm sure the Dubs would be happy to play down the country in the early rounds of the championship, and it's not the reason why they are winning all round them at the moment, but it is a help and anyone who denies that is being deliberately contrarian, or is burying their head in the sand.
Not sure of that myself just picked it out of the sky to exaggerate a point, we can look at the reasons why home advantage is such but it can't be denied that much I know.
I don't blame Dublin and no it's only a factor in many and why would they give up a competitive advantage they have a county board with a spine and are doing best for Dublin GAA.
Has anyone even remotely connected to Dublin asked that we play our leinster championship games in Croke Park? These games are there simply to generate income for the leinster council. Will happily travel to any ground in leinster to play. And if we do and whack whoever it is we will be playing what will be the gripe at that point? Jealousy is a sh1t characteristic displayed by many small minded people on this site.
We are winning at the minute because we just happen to have the best team and players. In my time watching football this is probably the best Dublin team we have ever had. And as Kerry and Kilkenny have shown the best teams usually win. So for those with their anti Dublin agendas and hatred build a fcukn bridge and get over it!!
That's very simplistic Thisonegoesto11 (that's far too long, we'll call you ThisOne :) ). Of course other teams have played well in Croke Park, that's not really the point. And of course Croke Park is not the reason why Dublin win, they have a great team at the moment, and are deservedly the top of the tree. HOWEVER it's very obvious in my mind that playing all your big games in one place, not to mind one place where you can be in your own bed the night before, is a big advantage. I'll not labour the point I'm making, but when you factor in the familiarity aspect, plus the huge home support, it has to be an advantage.
I think Dublin would beat every team in Leinster if they played in John Farrell's field in Birr, but at least it would make it a bit more novel, and the crowds would seem much bigger in provincial venues. If the only reason Dublin are playing at home every game is financial, then it's completely wrong in my opinion.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on April 28, 2014, 12:28:17 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 11:58:56 AM
Not sure about your extrapolation of 6/7 points advantage Dinny, but I certainly agree that familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance. I was nearly killed for saying this before, but playing all your championship games in Croke Park for several years, and now half your league games or more, has got to give new Dub players a sense of confidence and comfort. Routine is huge for many players, and having a set routine for every big game you play has to be an advantage.
Having said that, I'm sure the Dubs would be happy to play down the country in the early rounds of the championship, and it's not the reason why they are winning all round them at the moment, but it is a help and anyone who denies that is being deliberately contrarian, or is burying their head in the sand.
Not sure of that myself just picked it out of the sky to exaggerate a point, we can look at the reasons why home advantage is such but it can't be denied that much I know.
I don't blame Dublin and no it's only a factor in many and why would they give up a competitive advantage they have a county board with a spine and are doing best for Dublin GAA.
Has anyone even remotely connected to Dublin asked that we play our leinster championship games in Croke Park? These games are there simply to generate income for the leinster council. Will happily travel to any ground in leinster to play. And if we do and whack whoever it is we will be playing what will be the gripe at that point? Jealousy is a sh1t characteristic displayed by many small minded people on this site.
We are winning at the minute because we just happen to have the best team and players. In my time watching football this is probably the best Dublin team we have ever had. And as Kerry and Kilkenny have shown the best teams usually win. So for those with their anti Dublin agendas and hatred build a fcukn bridge and get over it!!
I hope you're not aiming that 'jealousy' barb at me Hill, because that's not my point at all. I've said that Dublin would beat all around them, regardless, and it's not as if Offaly are within 3 points and getting ye in Tullamore would swing it our way! I just think it's absolutely crazy to deny that an advantage exists for the Dubs in playing in Croke Park.
I've also said, by the way, that I'm sure Dublin would relish visiting other grounds. I remember them playing in Tullamore, Mullingar and Portlaoise, and it was a great occasion. Playing in the early rounds in Croke Park is a waste of time, and the attendances are not sell outs by any means.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 12:31:29 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on April 28, 2014, 12:28:17 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 11:58:56 AM
Not sure about your extrapolation of 6/7 points advantage Dinny, but I certainly agree that familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance. I was nearly killed for saying this before, but playing all your championship games in Croke Park for several years, and now half your league games or more, has got to give new Dub players a sense of confidence and comfort. Routine is huge for many players, and having a set routine for every big game you play has to be an advantage.
Having said that, I'm sure the Dubs would be happy to play down the country in the early rounds of the championship, and it's not the reason why they are winning all round them at the moment, but it is a help and anyone who denies that is being deliberately contrarian, or is burying their head in the sand.
Not sure of that myself just picked it out of the sky to exaggerate a point, we can look at the reasons why home advantage is such but it can't be denied that much I know.
I don't blame Dublin and no it's only a factor in many and why would they give up a competitive advantage they have a county board with a spine and are doing best for Dublin GAA.
Has anyone even remotely connected to Dublin asked that we play our leinster championship games in Croke Park? These games are there simply to generate income for the leinster council. Will happily travel to any ground in leinster to play. And if we do and whack whoever it is we will be playing what will be the gripe at that point? Jealousy is a sh1t characteristic displayed by many small minded people on this site.
We are winning at the minute because we just happen to have the best team and players. In my time watching football this is probably the best Dublin team we have ever had. And as Kerry and Kilkenny have shown the best teams usually win. So for those with their anti Dublin agendas and hatred build a fcukn bridge and get over it!!
I hope you're not aiming that 'jealousy' barb at me Hill, because that's not my point at all. I've said that Dublin would beat all around them, regardless, and it's not as if Offaly are within 3 points and getting ye in Tullamore would swing it our way! I just think it's absolutely crazy to deny that an advantage exists for the Dubs in playing in Croke Park.
I've also said, by the way, that I'm sure Dublin would relish visiting other grounds. I remember them playing in Tullamore, Mullingar and Portlaoise, and it was a great occasion. Playing in the early rounds in Croke Park is a waste of time, and the attendances are not sell outs by any means.
Feck me you present an argument, go out of your way not to be critical of Dublin and you get accused of jealousy!! Small-minded! Really?
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 12:28:46 PM
That's very simplistic Thisonegoesto11 (that's far too long, we'll call you ThisOne :) ). Of course other teams have played well in Croke Park, that's not really the point. And of course Croke Park is not the reason why Dublin win, they have a great team at the moment, and are deservedly the top of the tree. HOWEVER it's very obvious in my mind that playing all your big games in one place, not to mind one place where you can be in your own bed the night before, is a big advantage. I'll not labour the point I'm making, but when you factor in the familiarity aspect, plus the huge home support, it has to be an advantage.
I think Dublin would beat every team in Leinster if they played in John Farrell's field in Birr, but at least it would make it a bit more novel, and the crowds would seem much bigger in provincial venues. If the only reason Dublin are playing at home every game is financial, then it's completely wrong in my opinion.
Yes sorry , Spinal Tap references is all I use on MBs
Anyway on Croke park games, what can ye do?
All Leinster finals will be at CP as per tradition. Dublin will be there no matter where the first 2 rounds of Leinster are played. Personally see no reason why first round games can't be played in a smaller stadium. Will actually make sense.
Then we have the same issue with the QFs. Do you make a 'Dublin' clause – their QF must be away from CP. There's really nothing that can be done to appease this argument.
Have had great days/nights on the road with Dublin. Would have no issues going away for a championship game – we probably have as good as record as anyone (if we go back to the archives). Still believe that it wouldn't be too much of handicap to this current team.
Quote from: J OGorman on April 28, 2014, 11:30:25 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2014, 01:21:36 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 27, 2014, 01:25:17 AM
It's only all Ireland's that count!! Meath were still better is all I will say!!
;)
As for the rest- to be honest it's a moot point
Dublin have some bit of an adv due to proximity and familiarity
But all key games are played there and any player/team worth their salt want to play there.
I know I was pssed off when croker was closed in 1988 to us and our all Ireland fresher final was relocated elsewhere!
Plus when someone can respond as to why there's no whinge at Kilkenny and Kerry's dominance without money to back this or players bought- I may respond!
Some eejits and closed minded people on here - plus others who could channel their undoubted passion to more positive effect!!
If by some freak state of affairs, Derry drew Dublin in the qualifiers to play at Celtic park, I'm led to believe that Derry would/should concede home advantage, traipse all the way to Dublin and expect their supporters to do the same, because it's a players ambition to play in Croke Park? ::)
If Monaghan county board conceded home advantage to Dublin, I'd expect them to be chucked into Lough Major in a sack with some heavy rocks.
On finance, Kilkenny are a cash rich county, I think they are even richer than Dublin and Kerry are not that far behind them both.
Kerry are also cute hoors when it come to things like raising cash for the pursuit of Sam.
that did happen about 10 years ago and the powers that be moved it to Clones!
And that was a round 2 game, no doubt it should have been played in Celtic Pk. Afair, it was played on a dull Saturday evening in Clones with poor atmosphere, made all the worse of course, with the Dubs winning. Why was it moved to Clones? some trumped up health and safety reason?
The Dubs travelled to the opposition home grounds for round 2/3 qualifier games. in following years.
Lads I think this is all a matter of perspective - in fact I remember severaL commentators in the period 2005/2010 inclusive saying that Croke Park and the expectancy of the Hill was a distinct disadvantage for Dublin players in the Championship - once the Hill went silent and then started getting on the players' backs, the game was lost - eg Tyrone replay 2005, second half v Mayo 2006, Tyrone 2008, Kerry 2009, Meath 2010. In 2010, it was playing in front of smaller less expectant crowds in the qualifiers (albeit in Croker) that led to the teams rehabilitation. Having been there for all those occasions I can say that I and loads of other fans, saw no advantage to us in playing at Croke Park at all, indeed again commentators were saying that it was actively hampering our development.
Now we are stuck with the Spring Series and Rossfan accurately described its genesis - but it has been actively downgraded in terms of the entertainment offered and the crowds are a lot less (20-25k) now then they were when it started 5 years ago. I know that there are a lot of people involved who would much prefer if we went back to Parnell Park for League games and I'd say it won't be long before that is a reality.
It is very hard as a Dublin fan, whose first memories are of 83 and has spent most of my spectating life listening to country guys telling us we should be dominating with the population we have, God aren't ye terrible bottlers, isn't desperate that the GAA isn't stronger in the city, sure ye only fell over the line in 95 - after all that then be told that we are cheating when we are winning. Whatever about extrapolating point advantages from Soccereconomics, the only true fact that I know about any sport is that it is cyclical. Teams have their time and then fade - no matter who you are. The sheer begrudgery displayed towards a Dublin team that not only is successful, but doing it in a way that celebrates some of the best aspects of our games, from some on this board reflects badly on their own counties. It's mind boggling actually (not including you AZ or Dinny in that)
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 12:31:29 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on April 28, 2014, 12:28:17 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 11:58:56 AM
Not sure about your extrapolation of 6/7 points advantage Dinny, but I certainly agree that familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance. I was nearly killed for saying this before, but playing all your championship games in Croke Park for several years, and now half your league games or more, has got to give new Dub players a sense of confidence and comfort. Routine is huge for many players, and having a set routine for every big game you play has to be an advantage.
Having said that, I'm sure the Dubs would be happy to play down the country in the early rounds of the championship, and it's not the reason why they are winning all round them at the moment, but it is a help and anyone who denies that is being deliberately contrarian, or is burying their head in the sand.
Not sure of that myself just picked it out of the sky to exaggerate a point, we can look at the reasons why home advantage is such but it can't be denied that much I know.
I don't blame Dublin and no it's only a factor in many and why would they give up a competitive advantage they have a county board with a spine and are doing best for Dublin GAA.
Has anyone even remotely connected to Dublin asked that we play our leinster championship games in Croke Park? These games are there simply to generate income for the leinster council. Will happily travel to any ground in leinster to play. And if we do and whack whoever it is we will be playing what will be the gripe at that point? Jealousy is a sh1t characteristic displayed by many small minded people on this site.
We are winning at the minute because we just happen to have the best team and players. In my time watching football this is probably the best Dublin team we have ever had. And as Kerry and Kilkenny have shown the best teams usually win. So for those with their anti Dublin agendas and hatred build a fcukn bridge and get over it!!
I hope you're not aiming that 'jealousy' barb at me Hill, because that's not my point at all. I've said that Dublin would beat all around them, regardless, and it's not as if Offaly are within 3 points and getting ye in Tullamore would swing it our way! I just think it's absolutely crazy to deny that an advantage exists for the Dubs in playing in Croke Park.
I've also said, by the way, that I'm sure Dublin would relish visiting other grounds. I remember them playing in Tullamore, Mullingar and Portlaoise, and it was a great occasion. Playing in the early rounds in Croke Park is a waste of time, and the attendances are not sell outs by any means.
No wasn't aimed at you. My initial point was response to your post. The rest of it aimed at the anti Dublin sh1te that pervades this site
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 28, 2014, 12:52:51 PM
Lads I think this is all a matter of perspective - in fact I remember severaL commentators in the period 2005/2010 inclusive saying that Croke Park and the expectancy of the Hill was a distinct disadvantage for Dublin players in the Championship - once the Hill went silent and then started getting on the players' backs, the game was lost - eg Tyrone replay 2005, second half v Mayo 2006, Tyrone 2008, Kerry 2009, Meath 2010. In 2010, it was playing in front of smaller less expectant crowds in the qualifiers (albeit in Croker) that led to the teams rehabilitation. Having been there for all those occasions I can say that I and loads of other fans, saw no advantage to us in playing at Croke Park at all, indeed again commentators were saying that it was actively hampering our development.
Now we are stuck with the Spring Series and Rossfan accurately described its genesis - but it has been actively downgraded in terms of the entertainment offered and the crowds are a lot less (20-25k) now then they were when it started 5 years ago. I know that there are a lot of people involved who would much prefer if we went back to Parnell Park for League games and I'd say it won't be long before that is a reality.
It is very hard as a Dublin fan, whose first memories are of 83 and has spent most of my spectating life listening to country guys telling us we should be dominating with the population we have, God aren't ye terrible bottlers, isn't desperate that the GAA isn't stronger in the city, sure ye only fell over the line in 95 - after all that then be told that we are cheating when we are winning. Whatever about extrapolating point advantages from Soccereconomics, the only true fact that I know about any sport is that it is cyclical. Teams have their time and then fade - no matter who you are. The sheer begrudgery displayed towards a Dublin team that not only is successful, but doing it in a way that celebrates some of the best aspects of our games, from some on this board reflects badly on their own counties. It's mind boggling actually (not including you AZ or Dinny in that)
Begrudery is as traditional as the Provincial Championships.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 28, 2014, 12:52:51 PM
The sheer begrudgery displayed towards a Dublin team that not only is successful, but doing it in a way that celebrates some of the best aspects of our games, from some on this board reflects badly on their own counties. It's mind boggling actually (not including you AZ or Dinny in that)
Every team that enjoys success no matter what the sport will always have plenty of people wanting to knock them and take away from their success, e.g.:
- Jack Charlton's Ireland team was full of plastic paddys
- Alex Ferguson intimidated referees and his team received all the marginal calls
- Chelsea/Manchester City/Blackburn bought the league title
- Munster played an awful brand of ten man rugby to win Heineken Cups
- The Kilkenny team of the last fifteen years like the Clare team of the 90s were too physical
- Tyrone in the 00s played puke football
- Kerry since the year dot have had an easy time of things in Munster and have won soft All Irelands
- Dublin since 2011 have had way too much money and play every meaningful game in their own back yard etc.
No successful team is ever going to be universally popular. Enjoy the begrudgery, god knows there's enough counties out there who can only dream of Dublin's current success.
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Dressing rooms are important to Maria Carey but didn't surely no big deal for GAA Footballers
(If they do, throwing Diva like tantrums is the way to get a better dressing room).
Dublin often start badly. However if they start well, dressing rooms and warm up areas are factors? Players in high tempo games don't suddenly remember their warm up routine or the comforting aroma of their dressing room. Cannot think of a Croke Park game that didn't play out or twist by events on the pitch.
It just boils down to one team against another.
Going all Vincent Hogan and crunched some numbers since Feb 2011 Dublin have played only 12 away games, they have won 6 of those games, drawing 2 and losing 4. In the same period they have played an astonishing 38 home games, winning 32, drawing 1 and losing just 5 games.
Away from home they have just the 50% winning record, at home that jumps to 84%.
You can be deliberating obtuse all you want and argue the sample size is too small, the quality of opponent particularly in Leinster is poor but sound reasoning shows that playing all your games in Croke Park is advantage.
Only once in those four years have Dublin had to play more than 3 games away from home four in 2012, they lost 3 of those games.
Fair balls to Dublin, seriously talented team but hypothetically if they had to beat Longford in Pearse Park, Meath in Portlaoise and Cork in Thurles on the way to an All-Ireland title it would only give credence to the opinion that we are possibly looking at one the great teams as stands they have their home comforts and we might never know how good this team really is...
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 03:26:52 PM
You can be deliberating obtuse all you want and argue the sample size is too small, the quality of opponent particularly in Leinster is poor but sound reasoning shows that playing all your games in Croke Park is advantage.
Hasn't been one in a while, but since 1974 Dublin have played over 40 games in the Leinster championship outside of Croke Park. From memory, I think we just lost once (Laois - 1981). However, in that time each of Meath, Kildare, Offaly, Laois and Westmeath have beaten us in Croke Park!
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Dressing rooms are important to Maria Carey but didn't surely no big deal for GAA Footballers
(If they do, throwing Diva like tantrums is the way to get a better dressing room).
Dublin often start badly. However if they start well, dressing rooms and warm up areas are factors? Players in high tempo games don't suddenly remember their warm up routine or the comforting aroma of their dressing room. Cannot think of a Croke Park game that didn't play out or twist by events on the pitch.
It just boils down to one team against another.
Familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
Hey, stop robbing my lines.
def is an advantage now that ublin are a better team.
was no issue in prev decades when Dublin were not as good.
but apart from every player wanting to play in croker, Kilkenny might have a few quid and Kerry being shrewd financial (mean) people - these counties don't have the same financial backing as the dubs - what is the alternative.
we are not going to build a new stadium in the middle of the country.
where the work and roads all lead to is Dublin.
they have a massive population and if they start to dominate - then the division of the county will happen.
but jeez lads, some of the shtie here is something else.
by the way - emlyn mulligan still plays in Leitrim does he!!! ;)
Dublin won yesterday as they had their full team out as opposed to the one that faced Derry in Celtic park.
The rest of the country have to try and dethrone the dubs this season.
Football and hurling are f**king fantastic.
like yer man maximums malteeserus said in the film - are you not entertained!
The season is well and truly underway and I hope Derry learn from yesterdays masterclass (and with the manager they have- they will).
Cant wait for the championships now!
chill out lads and enjoy - sure you could be like the poor English lads and only stuck following some two bit soccer teams that mean nothing to you like man city, Liverpool, Chelsea and man u etc!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 28, 2014, 03:57:37 PM
def is an advantage now that ublin are a better team.
was no issue in prev decades when Dublin were not as good.
but apart from every player wanting to play in croker, Kilkenny might have a few quid and Kerry being shrewd financial (mean) people - these counties don't have the same financial backing as the dubs - what is the alternative.
we are not going to build a new stadium in the middle of the country.
where the work and roads all lead to is Dublin.
they have a massive population and if they start to dominate - then the division of the county will happen.
but jeez lads, some of the shtie here is something else.
by the way - emlyn mulligan still plays in Leitrim does he!!! ;)
Dublin won yesterday as they had their full team out as opposed to the one that faced Derry in Celtic park.
The rest of the country have to try and dethrone the dubs this season.
Football and hurling are f**king fantastic.
like yer man maximums malteeserus said in the film - are you not entertained!
The season is well and truly underway and I hope Derry learn from yesterdays masterclass (and with the manager they have- they will).
Cant wait for the championships now!
chill out lads and enjoy - sure you could be like the poor English lads and only stuck following some two bit soccer teams that mean nothing to you like man city, Liverpool, Chelsea and man u etc!
Hang on Lynchbhoy, stall the gallop for a second...
a) It is always an advantage when teams play at home, regardless of how good they are.
b) It becomes an even bigger advantage when *every* championship game is at home.
c) In the past Dublin played 'down the country' in the championship.
d) In the past Dublin played in Parnell Park in the league.
Now, apart from that carry on :D
Quote from: Hound on April 28, 2014, 03:43:22 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 03:26:52 PM
You can be deliberating obtuse all you want and argue the sample size is too small, the quality of opponent particularly in Leinster is poor but sound reasoning shows that playing all your games in Croke Park is advantage.
Hasn't been one in a while, but since 1974 Dublin have played over 40 games in the Leinster championship outside of Croke Park. From memory, I think we just lost once (Laois - 1981). However, in that time each of Meath, Kildare, Offaly, Laois and Westmeath have beaten us in Croke Park!
Hound you are an intelligent bloke, you won Leinster 23 times in that period, Offaly had a golden period in the 80s, Meath in the 90s and Kildare had a good spell in the late 90s. Since those defeats to Westmeath and Laois you have lost once in Croke in the Leinster football championship and it took 5 goals (some dubious) from Meath to inflict that victory - 1 defeat in 24 games. I don't think anyone is saying Dublin only win because they play at home but since they made it their home their record speaks for it itself. I would like to see a more level playing field regarding venues, will it happen who knows but to increase the integrity of the competition I think it should.
Dublin have always dominated Leinster football but even in their greatest years they've never had a period of dominance like it, look at the underage results does anyone honestly believe it will change! Great for Dublin but shit for the rest of us.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 04:18:12 PM
Hound you are an intelligent bloke, you won Leinster 23 times in that period, Offaly had a golden period in the 80s, Meath in the 90s and Kildare had a good spell in the late 90s. Since those defeats to Westmeath and Laois you have lost once in Croke in the Leinster football championship and it took 5 goals (some dubious) from Meath to inflict that victory - 1 defeat in 24 games. I don't think anyone is saying Dublin only win because they play at home but since they made it their home their record speaks for it itself. I would like to see a more level playing field regarding venues, will it happen who knows but to increase the integrity of the competition I think it should.
Dublin have always dominated Leinster football but even in their greatest years they've never had a period of dominance like it, look at the underage results does anyone honestly believe it will change! Great for Dublin but shit for the rest of us.
Ah yeah, just showing that stats can show a lot of different things and obviously Dublin's success at underage level recently has nothing to do with Croke Park.
Not sure why All Ireland Under 21 finals don't get played in Croker, when even Division 2, 3 and 4 national league "finals" take place there.
As has been said the Leinster quarter-finals should not be in Croke Park, and in Dublin we were expecting a trip this year as it had been mooted. I wonder did the other Leinster counties ask to keep using Croker?
Defeatist stuff Dinny - and I know we have only a few Kerry lads on the board (are there any left at all?) but I'm damn sure the likes of MikeSheehy and Kerrymike wouldn't be on here cribbing about the unfairness of Dublin winning.
And there are also lies, damn lies and statistics - if we are operating from an assumption that back in the day Dublin played less games in Croke Park and they now play far more, I'd like to look at how many times their opponents have played there - Meath, Kildare, Offaly, Wicklow, Westmeath, Wexford and Laois have all played Leinster first round and quarter final games as part of double headers (wrongly IMHO) much more regularly over the past ten years then before.
So the image of country lads coming up with tousled hair, blade of grass in their gobs and hoping to do the Museum tour after they get hammered by the Dubs is a bit of a laugh - all Leinster counties have far more experience of Croke Park then they would have had back in the 80s and 90s. Now I will concede, Croke for Westmeath say, is a different place when facing the dubs with a 50/60k crowd, then when facing Wexford as the first part of a double header. But unfortunately we can't ask our fans not to come just so we can provide a strictly balanced experience.
Croke Park is now the defacto home of the Leinster Championship - again I think that is wrong when you see the excitement in places like Navan or Newbridge when they get a derby draw in the qualifiers, but lads they had to pay for the place. Logically having the Dubs there with their 50/60k support was the way to do it.
All the Dubs and Dub wannabes around here are doing a great impression of Bertie, the Dub hero of course. Playing at home in every match isn't an advantage, they say. Millions of euro every year isn't an advanatage either according to them. ;D Laughable really. All their excuses remind me of one of Bertie's lines: "It is not correct, and if I said so, I was not correct — I cannot recall if I said it, but I did not say, or if I did, I did not mean to say it". They actually think us fine country folk are too thick to realise what's happening, just like the Bert but in the end things caught up with him and it's catching up with the Dubs now. The games up boyos, the split is coming!
I have a list here that really shows the power of money, especially in an amateur sport where most counties are struggling financially. This list covers from 2009 till now, a time when the serious investment in Dublin GAA started taking effect.
Dublin's Bought Titles:
Senior
Football
All Ireland Senior Football Champions: 2011, 2013
Leinster Senior Football Champions: 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013
National Football League Champions: 2013, 2014
Hurling
Leinster Senior Hurling Champions: 2013
National Hurling League Titles: 2011
U21
Football
All Ireland u21 Football Champions: 2010, 2012
Leinster u21 Football Champions: 2009, 2010, 2012, 2014
Hurling
Leinster u21 Hurling Champions: 2010, 2011
Minor
Football
All Ireland Minor Football Champions: 2012
Leinster Minor Football Champions: 2009, 2011, 2012
Hurling
Leinster Minor Hurling Champions: 2011, 2012
That's a huge amount of silverware and it will be added to again this year. It just can't go on, it's best for everyone if we split Dublin, even for the Dubs themselves! It can't be the best feeling knowing that you haven't won anything by yourselves. If we want fair play in Gaelic Games then the split must happen sooner or later, more and more people are coming to this realisation so it's inevitable at this stage.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 28, 2014, 05:06:48 PM
Defeatist stuff Dinny - and I know we have only a few Kerry lads on the board (are there any left at all?) but I'm damn sure the likes of MikeSheehy and Kerrymike wouldn't be on here cribbing about the unfairness of Dublin winning.
And there are also lies, damn lies and statistics - if we are operating from an assumption that back in the day Dublin played less games in Croke Park and they now play far more, I'd like to look at how many times their opponents have played there - Meath, Kildare, Offaly, Wicklow, Westmeath, Wexford and Laois have all played Leinster first round and quarter final games as part of double headers (wrongly IMHO) much more regularly over the past ten years then before.
So the image of country lads coming up with tousled hair, blade of grass in their gobs and hoping to do the Museum tour after they get hammered by the Dubs is a bit of a laugh - all Leinster counties have far more experience of Croke Park then they would have had back in the 80s and 90s. Now I will concede, Croke for Westmeath say, is a different place when facing the dubs with a 50/60k crowd, then when facing Wexford as the first part of a double header. But unfortunately we can't ask our fans not to come just so we can provide a strictly balanced experience.
Croke Park is now the defacto home of the Leinster Championship - again I think that is wrong when you see the excitement in places like Navan or Newbridge when they get a derby draw in the qualifiers, but lads they had to pay for the place. Logically having the Dubs there with their 50/60k support was the way to do it.
Call it defeatist if you choose, I call it realistic. Kildare et al might have gained experience playing/losing (have lost our last 5 visits) in Croker Park but it's not our home, in that period Dublin garnered even more experience.
If it was only the Leinster Championship maybe I could live with it but 21 National League games in the last four years, there's advantages and then there's advantages. I find it hard to believe you do not see it as such or refuse to admit.
Anyhow the resident nut job has arrived so that's my last spake on this matter.
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Dressing rooms are important to Maria Carey but didn't surely no big deal for GAA Footballers
(If they do, throwing Diva like tantrums is the way to get a better dressing room).
Dublin often start badly. However if they start well, dressing rooms and warm up areas are factors? Players in high tempo games don't suddenly remember their warm up routine or the comforting aroma of their dressing room. Cannot think of a Croke Park game that didn't play out or twist by events on the pitch.
It just boils down to one team against another.
Being allocated the same dressing room and end to warm up at obviously makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things. However if Croke Park is considered a neutral venue for championship matches then it should be a random selection as to which team gets which dressing room, end etc.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 05:35:34 PM
Call it defeatist if you choose, I call it realistic. Kildare et al might have gained experience playing/losing (have lost our last 5 visits) in Croker Park but it's not our home
Did we not beat Donegal and Offaly there last year?
Realistically Dublin v Meath and Dublin v Kildare in the Leinster Championship are always going to attract a crowd well in excess of what any other venue in the province can comfortably accommodate. Only a fool would argue that these fixtures should be played in Portlaoise or Tullamore and to hell with the 15,000 left standing outside the turnstiles of a packed to capacity ground.
I do take issue with the Leinster Council fixing double headers for Croke Park when the curtain raiser barely attracts a crowd of 10,000. Our match with Offaly last year would have generated much more of a sense of occasion had it been played in Navan or Carlow. I'm not sure the argument that "all players prefer to play in Croke Park" is one that shared universally among all players in Leinster. These smaller Leinster Championship fixtures generate zero atmosphere in Croke Park. Our Leinster quarter final with Louth/Westmeath this year should be a stand alone fixture in Navan and not as a curtain raiser to Dublin v Laois/Wicklow.
Remember how upset Pillar's Dubs were when some puny team dared to steal 'their place' in Croke Park? ;D
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 28, 2014, 03:57:37 PM
def is an advantage now that ublin are a better team.
was no issue in prev decades when Dublin were not as good.
but apart from every player wanting to play in croker, Kilkenny might have a few quid and Kerry being shrewd financial (mean) people - these counties don't have the same financial backing as the dubs - what is the alternative.
we are not going to build a new stadium in the middle of the country.
where the work and roads all lead to is Dublin.
they have a massive population and if they start to dominate - then the division of the county will happen.
but jeez lads, some of the shtie here is something else.
by the way - emlyn mulligan still plays in Leitrim does he!!! ;)
Dublin won yesterday as they had their full team out as opposed to the one that faced Derry in Celtic park.
The rest of the country have to try and dethrone the dubs this season.
Football and hurling are f**king fantastic.
like yer man maximums malteeserus said in the film - are you not entertained!
The season is well and truly underway and I hope Derry learn from yesterdays masterclass (and with the manager they have- they will).
Cant wait for the championships now!
chill out lads and enjoy - sure you could be like the poor English lads and only stuck following some two bit soccer teams that mean nothing to you like man city, Liverpool, Chelsea and man u etc!
Hang on Lynchbhoy, stall the gallop for a second...
a) It is always an advantage when teams play at home, regardless of how good they are.
b) It becomes an even bigger advantage when *every* championship game is at home.
c) In the past Dublin played 'down the country' in the championship.
d) In the past Dublin played in Parnell Park in the league.
Now, apart from that carry on :D
on point c... did Dublin not win most of those games played away from Croke Park?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 28, 2014, 05:13:24 PM
All the Dubs and Dub wannabes around here are doing a great impression of Bertie, the Dub hero of course. Playing at home in every match isn't an advantage, they say. Millions of euro every year isn't an advanatage either according to them. ;D Laughable really. All their excuses remind me of one of Bertie's lines: "It is not correct, and if I said so, I was not correct — I cannot recall if I said it, but I did not say, or if I did, I did not mean to say it". They actually think us fine country folk are too thick to realise what's happening, just like the Bert but in the end things caught up with him and it's catching up with the Dubs now. The games up boyos, the split is coming!
I have a list here that really shows the power of money, especially in an amateur sport where most counties are struggling financially. This list covers from 2009 till now, a time when the serious investment in Dublin GAA started taking effect.
Dublin's Bought Titles:
Senior
Football
All Ireland Senior Football Champions: 2011, 2013
Leinster Senior Football Champions: 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013
National Football League Champions: 2013, 2014
Hurling
Leinster Senior Hurling Champions: 2013
National Hurling League Titles: 2011
U21
Football
All Ireland u21 Football Champions: 2010, 2012
Leinster u21 Football Champions: 2009, 2010, 2012, 2014
Hurling
Leinster u21 Hurling Champions: 2010, 2011
Minor
Football
All Ireland Minor Football Champions: 2012
Leinster Minor Football Champions: 2009, 2011, 2012
Hurling
Leinster Minor Hurling Champions: 2011, 2012
That's a huge amount of silverware and it will be added to again this year. It just can't go on, it's best for everyone if we split Dublin, even for the Dubs themselves! It can't be the best feeling knowing that you haven't won anything by yourselves. If we want fair play in Gaelic Games then the split must happen sooner or later, more and more people are coming to this realisation so it's inevitable at this stage.
Unreal. Is throwing Bertie Ahern into a discussion of any relevance at all ? (the FF/FG diehard thing isn't really a sensitive issue in multi party Dublin). Don't let Dublin become your obsessive conspiracy theory. Those things can eat ye up. Help is out there.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Dressing rooms are important to Maria Carey but didn't surely no big deal for GAA Footballers
(If they do, throwing Diva like tantrums is the way to get a better dressing room).
Dublin often start badly. However if they start well, dressing rooms and warm up areas are factors? Players in high tempo games don't suddenly remember their warm up routine or the comforting aroma of their dressing room. Cannot think of a Croke Park game that didn't play out or twist by events on the pitch.
It just boils down to one team against another.
Familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
Presumably this is only important since 2011? Or was it even a factor when we lost regulary?
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2014, 06:45:07 PM
Remember how upset Pillar's Dubs were when some puny team dared to steal 'their place' in Croke Park? ;D
I'll carry that memory to the grave. :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 04:09:54 PM
a) It is always an advantage when teams play at home, regardless of how good they are.
b) It becomes an even bigger advantage when *every* championship game is at home.
c) In the past Dublin played 'down the country' in the championship.
d) In the past Dublin played in Parnell Park in the league.
Now, apart from that carry on :D
There will be no reply to this! None! There is no escaping the facts.
Greed of the GAA will be it's downfall! They have squeezed all they can out of Dublin with Croke Park! League games were a bonus and sure lets let Dublin have 4 games there a campaign, 5 was even squeezed one year. So we have no alternative venues? The Gaelic grounds? Páirc Uí Chaoimh? McHale Park? Fitzgerald Stadium? Thurles? are all ground that can hold 40K plus? Whats wrong with using them?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 04:18:12 PM
Dublin have always dominated Leinster football but even in their greatest years they've never had a period of dominance like it
1974 to 1979 six Leinster titles in a row and most of those games were played outside Croke Park.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 28, 2014, 07:53:31 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 04:09:54 PM
a) It is always an advantage when teams play at home, regardless of how good they are.
b) It becomes an even bigger advantage when *every* championship game is at home.
c) In the past Dublin played 'down the country' in the championship.
d) In the past Dublin played in Parnell Park in the league.
Now, apart from that carry on :D
There will be no reply to this! None! There is no escaping the facts.
Greed of the GAA will be it's downfall! They have squeezed all they can out of Dublin with Croke Park! League games were a bonus and sure lets let Dublin have 4 games there a campaign, 5 was even squeezed one year. So we have no alternative venues? The Gaelic grounds? Páirc Uí Chaoimh? McHale Park? Fitzgerald Stadium? Thurles? are all ground that can hold 40K plus? Whats wrong with using them?
Eh there was already a reply. Same ol nonsense , thread should be retitled 'sour grapes' . If Dubs whined like this about recent previus AI winners , they'd be laughed out of it as 'can't take yer beating'.
Incredible that so many of ye are at pains to go on about Dublin. Surely better of focussing on reasons why your county can't win an AI . Might help yis finally win a title rather than lamenting Dublin's success.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on April 28, 2014, 08:06:43 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 04:18:12 PM
Dublin have always dominated Leinster football but even in their greatest years they've never had a period of dominance like it
1974 to 1979 six Leinster titles in a row and most of those games were played outside Croke Park.
Ye can't be bringing facts into a conspiracy theory discussion ..."different era"..."not relevant".....
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 08:17:33 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 28, 2014, 07:53:31 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 04:09:54 PM
a) It is always an advantage when teams play at home, regardless of how good they are.
b) It becomes an even bigger advantage when *every* championship game is at home.
c) In the past Dublin played 'down the country' in the championship.
d) In the past Dublin played in Parnell Park in the league.
Now, apart from that carry on :D
There will be no reply to this! None! There is no escaping the facts.
Greed of the GAA will be it's downfall! They have squeezed all they can out of Dublin with Croke Park! League games were a bonus and sure lets let Dublin have 4 games there a campaign, 5 was even squeezed one year. So we have no alternative venues? The Gaelic grounds? Páirc Uí Chaoimh? McHale Park? Fitzgerald Stadium? Thurles? are all ground that can hold 40K plus? Whats wrong with using them?
Eh there was already a reply. Same ol nonsense , thread should be retitled 'sour grapes' . If Dubs whined like this about recent previus AI winners , they'd be laughed out of it as 'can't take yer beating'.
Incredible that so many of ye are at pains to go on about Dublin. Surely better of focussing on reasons why your county can't win an AI . Might help yis finally win a title rather than lamenting Dublin's success.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOUDDDDDDD NOISESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 28, 2014, 05:13:24 PM
All the Dubs and Dub wannabes around here are doing a great impression of Bertie, the Dub hero of course. Playing at home in every match isn't an advantage, they say. Millions of euro every year isn't an advanatage either according to them. ;D Laughable really. All their excuses remind me of one of Bertie's lines: "It is not correct, and if I said so, I was not correct — I cannot recall if I said it, but I did not say, or if I did, I did not mean to say it". They actually think us fine country folk are too thick to realise what's happening, just like the Bert but in the end things caught up with him and it's catching up with the Dubs now. The games up boyos, the split is coming!
I have a list here that really shows the power of money, especially in an amateur sport where most counties are struggling financially. This list covers from 2009 till now, a time when the serious investment in Dublin GAA started taking effect.
Dublin's Bought Titles:
Senior
Football
All Ireland Senior Football Champions: 2011, 2013
Leinster Senior Football Champions: 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013
National Football League Champions: 2013, 2014
Hurling
Leinster Senior Hurling Champions: 2013
National Hurling League Titles: 2011
U21
Football
All Ireland u21 Football Champions: 2010, 2012
Leinster u21 Football Champions: 2009, 2010, 2012, 2014
Hurling
Leinster u21 Hurling Champions: 2010, 2011
Minor
Football
All Ireland Minor Football Champions: 2012
Leinster Minor Football Champions: 2009, 2011, 2012
Hurling
Leinster Minor Hurling Champions: 2011, 2012
That's a huge amount of silverware and it will be added to again this year. It just can't go on, it's best for everyone if we split Dublin, even for the Dubs themselves! It can't be the best feeling knowing that you haven't won anything by yourselves. If we want fair play in Gaelic Games then the split must happen sooner or later, more and more people are coming to this realisation so it's inevitable at this stage.
You sound like a soccer coconut...................................wouldnt be surprised if you are that job robbing weasel Colm Parkinson
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2014, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 28, 2014, 03:57:37 PM
def is an advantage now that ublin are a better team.
was no issue in prev decades when Dublin were not as good.
but apart from every player wanting to play in croker, Kilkenny might have a few quid and Kerry being shrewd financial (mean) people - these counties don't have the same financial backing as the dubs - what is the alternative.
we are not going to build a new stadium in the middle of the country.
where the work and roads all lead to is Dublin.
they have a massive population and if they start to dominate - then the division of the county will happen.
but jeez lads, some of the shtie here is something else.
by the way - emlyn mulligan still plays in Leitrim does he!!! ;)
Dublin won yesterday as they had their full team out as opposed to the one that faced Derry in Celtic park.
The rest of the country have to try and dethrone the dubs this season.
Football and hurling are f**king fantastic.
like yer man maximums malteeserus said in the film - are you not entertained!
The season is well and truly underway and I hope Derry learn from yesterdays masterclass (and with the manager they have- they will).
Cant wait for the championships now!
chill out lads and enjoy - sure you could be like the poor English lads and only stuck following some two bit soccer teams that mean nothing to you like man city, Liverpool, Chelsea and man u etc!
Hang on Lynchbhoy, stall the gallop for a second...
a) It is always an advantage when teams play at home, regardless of how good they are.
b) It becomes an even bigger advantage when *every* championship game is at home.
c) In the past Dublin played 'down the country' in the championship.
d) In the past Dublin played in Parnell Park in the league.
Now, apart from that carry on :D
You didn't think that one through az
A. Not always. Certain county grounds don't suit teams. A slow older team wants a small pitch like newbridge not eg simple stadium
B. Yes
C. Dublin rarely lose on the road
D. They did and I presume it's down to money why they play in croker.
If we, the Gaa and the country was awash with Money then I'd have Dublin playing all the time in navan
A lot of ex intercounty players I know prefer playing in croker to their home pitches
One current Offaly veteran hurler you prob know well is one
Not saying it's right , but it is what it is so folk should get over it.
Until Dublin is eventually split into two if that becomes a requirement
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 28, 2014, 08:27:47 PM
.wouldnt be surprised if you are that job robbing weasel Colm Parkinson
Can you explain this one to me?
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 08:22:26 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on April 28, 2014, 08:06:43 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 28, 2014, 04:18:12 PM
Dublin have always dominated Leinster football but even in their greatest years they've never had a period of dominance like it
1974 to 1979 six Leinster titles in a row and most of those games were played outside Croke Park.
Ye can't be bringing facts into a conspiracy theory discussion ..."different era"..."not relevant".....
Yes that was your greatest period, 6 in a row. Dublin are currently on track to win their 9th Leinster title in 10 years!
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 07:04:25 PM
Unreal. Is throwing Bertie Ahern into a discussion of any relevance at all ? (the FF/FG diehard thing isn't really a sensitive issue in multi party Dublin). Don't let Dublin become your obsessive conspiracy theory. Those things can eat ye up. Help is out there.
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 28, 2014, 08:27:47 PM
You sound like a soccer coconut...................................wouldnt be surprised if you are that job robbing weasel Colm Parkinson
As usual the Dubs can't deal with any of the facts put to them and they try to shoot down the messenger, again like their hero Bertie. By the way, of course he's relevant to the discussion as he was a main player in getting Dublin the cash.
The Dubs and the Dub wannabe are avoiding the money issue as there's no defence for it but are still trying to claim that playing every match at home is not an advantage. It's ridiculous that anyone can claim that but it's the Dubs we're dealing with here.
They say that Dublin barely lost on the road in the 70's and 80's, that's true but who were they playing? For the most part, only Offaly and Meath had decent sides back then and they mostly played them in the Leinster final, which was in Croke Park of course. So they were beating poor teams on the road, some very poor teams.
It's easy to forget how low the standard was in many counties back then. Many improved themselves over the years though, shortly before the millions of euro came for Dublin plus every game at home, minnows like Laois, Westmeath and Kildare were winning the Leinster championship. They have no hope now.
Others like Wexford and Longford have transformed themselves from whipping boys in Gaelic football but they've been robbed of a chance of winning silverware. It would be impossible for them to compete with the multi million euro machine anyway but especially so if they're forced to play Dublin away no matter what round of competition.
This is not what the GAA is supposed to be about, putting money above watching our games flourish. Time to end the farce, split Dublin and lets play football and hurling on an equal footing, the way it's supposed to be.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 28, 2014, 10:35:00 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 07:04:25 PM
Unreal. Is throwing Bertie Ahern into a discussion of any relevance at all ? (the FF/FG diehard thing isn't really a sensitive issue in multi party Dublin). Don't let Dublin become your obsessive conspiracy theory. Those things can eat ye up. Help is out there.
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on April 28, 2014, 08:27:47 PM
You sound like a soccer coconut...................................wouldnt be surprised if you are that job robbing weasel Colm Parkinson
As usual the Dubs can't deal with any of the facts put to them and they try to shoot down the messenger, again like their hero Bertie. By the way, of course he's relevant to the discussion as he was a main player in getting Dublin the cash.
The Dubs and the Dub wannabe are avoiding the money issue as there's no defence for it but are still trying to claim that playing every match at home is not an advantage. It's ridiculous that anyone can claim that but it's the Dubs we're dealing with here.
They say that Dublin barely lost on the road in the 70's and 80's, that's true but who were they playing? For the most part, only Offaly and Meath had decent sides back then and they mostly played them in the Leinster final, which was in Croke Park of course. So they were beating poor teams on the road, some very poor teams.
It's easy to forget how low the standard was in many counties back then. Many improved themselves over the years though, shortly before the millions of euro came for Dublin plus every game at home, minnows like Laois, Westmeath and Kildare were winning the Leinster championship. They have no hope now.
Others like Wexford and Longford have transformed themselves from whipping boys in Gaelic football but they've been robbed of a chance of winning silverware. It would be impossible for them to compete with the multi million euro machine anyway but especially so if they're forced to play Dublin away no matter what round of competition.
This is not what the GAA is supposed to be about, putting money above watching our games flourish. Time to end the farce, split Dublin and lets play football and hurling on an equal footing, the way it's supposed to be.
We can't split Dublin because we'd all miss the ravings of a lunatic who's spent too much with the Count of Monte Cristo on that island.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 28, 2014, 10:39:40 PM
We can't split Dublin because we'd all miss the ravings of a lunatic who's spent too much with the Count of Monte Cristo on that island.
How are ya Bertie? ;D
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 28, 2014, 10:42:12 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 28, 2014, 10:39:40 PM
We can't split Dublin because we'd all miss the ravings of a lunatic who's spent too much with the Count of Monte Cristo on that island.
How are ya Bertie? ;D
Sure we all know Bertie lives in Laois
Quote from: INDIANA on April 28, 2014, 10:43:48 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 28, 2014, 10:42:12 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 28, 2014, 10:39:40 PM
We can't split Dublin because we'd all miss the ravings of a lunatic who's spent too much with the Count of Monte Cristo on that island.
How are ya Bertie? ;D
Sure we all know Bertie lives in Laois
:D That's Bertie the dealer from Crumlin, Bertie the stealer from Drumcondra is still in his homeland.
good job the internet wasn't about when Kerry won 8 in 10yrs, they been looking to split up the kingdom lol, Dublin are strong but they always been there are there abouts past 25yrs, fortune and luck had fell their road in the early 90`s they could have won maybe 3 All- Ireland's in a 4yrs period. They come strong now off a few good minor and u-21 teams, but look at Galway with a couple of good all-ireland u-21 teams, where have them players gone.
they have numbers and a very strong club championship, the reality is Dublin have under achieving past number of years, things are clicking into place for them with a great panel of players, i for one don't hold the success and whats to come against them.
Jez there are so many lick arses on this thread! It's scary really! Don't Matter is an extreme case, but jez at least he's not going around with his eyes shut and his head up his arse. He knows exactly what is going on. But his negative ranting about the decent Dublin fan/person cloud allot of what the truth is and i would in no way associate myself with such vile comments.
So here is the news, well it is news to me.
Home advantage is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Using the same dressing room all the time is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Warming up at the same end of Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Sleeping in your own bed the night before a match is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Not having to make travel arrangements is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Having a large home crowd at the match to support you is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing home games in the League (which can be up to six) is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing on an usual surface such that Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing all of you championship games in Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing teams who have had only a fraction of the time that Dublin have had in Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
I wonder how well Munster in Rugby would do if they Played all their games in Thomond? Would they have a few more Heineken Cups?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 29, 2014, 01:04:21 AM
Jez there are so many lick arses on this thread! It's scary really! Don't Matter is an extreme case, but jez at least he's not going around with his eyes shut and his head up his arse. He knows exactly what is going on. But his negative ranting about the decent Dublin fan/person cloud allot of what the truth is and i would in no way associate myself with such vile comments.
So here is the news, well it is news to me.
Home advantage is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Using the same dressing room all the time is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Warming up at the same end of Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Sleeping in your own bed the night before a match is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Not having to make travel arrangements is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Having a large home crowd at the match to support you is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing home games in the League (which can be up to six) is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing on an usual surface such that Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing all of you championship games in Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing teams who have had only a fraction of the time that Dublin have had in Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
I wonder how well Munster in Rugby would do if they Played all their games in Thomond? Would they have a few more Heineken Cups?
had united played all their games away from home they would have made the champions league!
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 29, 2014, 01:04:21 AM
Jez there are so many lick arses on this thread! It's scary really! Don't Matter is an extreme case, but jez at least he's not going around with his eyes shut and his head up his arse. He knows exactly what is going on. But his negative ranting about the decent Dublin fan/person cloud allot of what the truth is and i would in no way associate myself with such vile comments.
So here is the news, well it is news to me.
Home advantage is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Using the same dressing room all the time is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Warming up at the same end of Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Sleeping in your own bed the night before a match is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Not having to make travel arrangements is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Having a large home crowd at the match to support you is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing home games in the League (which can be up to six) is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing on an usual surface such that Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing all of you championship games in Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
Playing teams who have had only a fraction of the time that Dublin have had in Croke Park is of little consequence in the result of a game.
I wonder how well Munster in Rugby would do if they Played all their games in Thomond? Would they have a few more Heineken Cups?
Arse licking = those who dismiss bad loser rants.
Sooner the better we get a couple of road games to shut the begrudging muldoons up on this board..................................But no the muldoons up in HQ are calling the shots ............................isnt that right laois man "dont matter"
(http://cdn4.independent.ie/incoming/article29992368.ece/9240e/ALTERNATES/h342/garth.jpg)
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Dressing rooms are important to Maria Carey but didn't surely no big deal for GAA Footballers
(If they do, throwing Diva like tantrums is the way to get a better dressing room).
Dublin often start badly. However if they start well, dressing rooms and warm up areas are factors? Players in high tempo games don't suddenly remember their warm up routine or the comforting aroma of their dressing room. Cannot think of a Croke Park game that didn't play out or twist by events on the pitch.
It just boils down to one team against another.
Familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
Presumably this is only important since 2011? Or was it even a factor when we lost regulary?
Oh it has always been unfair that Dublin get favouritism over every other county in Ireland regarding their match day preparations in Croke Park.
You could maybe, MAYBE, swallow the fact that they like to warm up in front of the Hill but why in the name of Jaysus should they get allocated the same dressing room for each of their visits there when it is a lottery for every other county in Ireland (when they're not playing the Dubs of course)?
Wait a minute, are Dublin supporters actually suggesting they don't have an advantage over other teams when playing at Croke Park? Really?
Quote from: DennistheMenace on April 29, 2014, 09:55:59 AM
Wait a minute, are Dublin supporters actually suggesting they don't have an advantage over other teams when playing at Croke Park? Really?
Bizarrely yes and not just Dublin supporters I might add.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 09:46:37 AM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Dressing rooms are important to Maria Carey but didn't surely no big deal for GAA Footballers
(If they do, throwing Diva like tantrums is the way to get a better dressing room).
Dublin often start badly. However if they start well, dressing rooms and warm up areas are factors? Players in high tempo games don't suddenly remember their warm up routine or the comforting aroma of their dressing room. Cannot think of a Croke Park game that didn't play out or twist by events on the pitch.
It just boils down to one team against another.
Familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
Presumably this is only important since 2011? Or was it even a factor when we lost regulary?
Oh it has always been unfair that Dublin get favouritism over every other county in Ireland regarding their match day preparations in Croke Park.
You could maybe, MAYBE, swallow the fact that they like to warm up in front of the Hill but why in the name of Jaysus should they get allocated the same dressing room for each of their visits there when it is a lottery for every other county in Ireland (when they're not playing the Dubs of course)?
No Dub fan will have an issue with Changing dressing rooms or moving games . We have a very good team and firmly believe it make no difference. Croke Park won't win us an All-Ireland and moving us away won't prevent it.
A better team on the day will be our undoing.
No other AI champion has to endure all this nit picking. More reasons will be touted if success continues . Last year we had the McStay punditry of timing Cluxton's free kicks! Dublin can change rooms/stadiums. Then the focus will shift to free kicks we get , sponsorships, populations, facilities, proximity to an international airport and the bias of having Ciaran Whelan as a panelist. It'll be relentless until someone gives us a hiding in a game of football.
The whole Championship has always been unfairly balanced, some counties have a better chance due to the province their county is in and then there is Dublin who do have the best team without doubt but other factors effectively give them further advantage that they probably don't need.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 29, 2014, 10:23:24 AM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on April 29, 2014, 09:55:59 AM
Wait a minute, are Dublin supporters actually suggesting they don't have an advantage over other teams when playing at Croke Park? Really?
Bizarrely yes and not just Dublin supporters I might add.
Seems to be the case. And not only that, but anyone who points out that there is an inherent advantage is called a sore loser, or jealous, even if you point out that Dublin would win most of their games away from Croker anyway because they are the best team in the country at the moment.
My argument is simply that it's impossible to have the same routine over and over again, and play in front of your own fans, and not have an advantage. If you are a great team that advantage is not needed, but in close games it may well swing the result towards you.
Anyway, my main point is no Leinster Championship games should be played in Croker until the semi final at least, unless you have a particularly mouth watering clash. I know the Dubs wouldn't mind it, so why not Dublin v Wexford down in Wexford? Or v Laois in Portlaoise. Tickets would be scarce, the atmosphere would be great and the whole event would be better.
From my own perspective this is one of many anomalies in the game. The Connacht and Munster Championships make it to easy for Mayo/Galway (not the Rossie of late, but that will change)/Cork/Kerry to progress in the Championship. Jez, average Mayo teams have got to AI finals by winning just one big game (really)! That probably part of the problem for them (us) when we got there! But sure it's all cosy for us so we'll take it! There will be no complaints from the teams mentioned. Quarter finals are almost guaranteed without breaking a sweat and peaking can be fine tune for later in the year. So you see on a lesser level we are part of this conundrum. We get our Croke park time as well, almost guaranteed. So we can turn over the new boys when they make their limited appearance. Thing is our visits are more limited and clustered into a period of 6 weeks.
QuoteAnyway, my main point is no Leinster Championship games should be played in Croker until the semi final at least, unless you have a particularly mouth watering clash. I know the Dubs wouldn't mind it, so why not Dublin v Wexford down in Wexford? Or v Laois in Portlaoise. Tickets would be scarce, the atmosphere would be great and the whole event would be better.
I agree with this even the semi-finals should be neutral, just imagine Kildare/Meath v Dublin Leinster semi-final in Portlaoise, 30K sell-out, ticket fever, whinging fans, phone calls to live-line, Evening Herald headlines damning the GAA, queues for tickets. It creates an event, something to look forward to, instead we get a 40K at a double header in Croke Park with no atmosphere for the first game and nothing but empty seats by the end of the second.
The big winners would be Portlaoise and the Dublin supporters who get a decent road trip and we would probably even get a decent game of football. It shouldn't always be about the money!!
This is the GAA equivalent of the Right To Life debate. Oh this is a nice roundabout, let's stick with this one for a while.
And dont start us Ulstermen (home of the best provincial championship in the land) on Monaghan and Clones...them Farney hooers have it handy !
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 29, 2014, 11:14:01 AM
QuoteAnyway, my main point is no Leinster Championship games should be played in Croker until the semi final at least, unless you have a particularly mouth watering clash. I know the Dubs wouldn't mind it, so why not Dublin v Wexford down in Wexford? Or v Laois in Portlaoise. Tickets would be scarce, the atmosphere would be great and the whole event would be better.
I agree with this even the semi-finals should be neutral, just imagine Kildare/Meath v Dublin Leinster semi-final in Portlaoise, 30K sell-out, ticket fever, whinging fans, phone calls to live-line, Evening Herald headlines damning the GAA, queues for tickets. It creates an event, something to look forward to, instead we get a 40K at a double header in Croke Park with no atmosphere for the first game and nothing but empty seats by the end of the second.
The big winners would be Portlaoise and the Dublin supporters who get a decent road trip and we would probably even get a decent game of football. It shouldn't always be about the money!!
What confuses me is why Laois (especially) and Wicklow haven't complained about the winners of their match going to Croker
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 09:46:37 AM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Dressing rooms are important to Maria Carey but didn't surely no big deal for GAA Footballers
(If they do, throwing Diva like tantrums is the way to get a better dressing room).
Dublin often start badly. However if they start well, dressing rooms and warm up areas are factors? Players in high tempo games don't suddenly remember their warm up routine or the comforting aroma of their dressing room. Cannot think of a Croke Park game that didn't play out or twist by events on the pitch.
It just boils down to one team against another.
Familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
Presumably this is only important since 2011? Or was it even a factor when we lost regulary?
Oh it has always been unfair that Dublin get favouritism over every other county in Ireland regarding their match day preparations in Croke Park.
You could maybe, MAYBE, swallow the fact that they like to warm up in front of the Hill but why in the name of Jaysus should they get allocated the same dressing room for each of their visits there when it is a lottery for every other county in Ireland (when they're not playing the Dubs of course)?
No Dub fan will have an issue with Changing dressing rooms or moving games . We have a very good team and firmly believe it make no difference. Croke Park won't win us an All-Ireland and moving us away won't prevent it.
A better team on the day will be our undoing.
No other AI champion has to endure all this nit picking. More reasons will be touted if success continues . Last year we had the McStay punditry of timing Cluxton's free kicks! Dublin can change rooms/stadiums. Then the focus will shift to free kicks we get , sponsorships, populations, facilities, proximity to an international airport and the bias of having Ciaran Whelan as a panelist. It'll be relentless until someone gives us a hiding in a game of football.
This is not a nit picking agenda at Dublin or their fans. Hell, if I was offered an edge I'd take it too. Can't fathom how arrangements like this can happen in what is supposed to be a neutral stadium.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 12:16:41 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 09:46:37 AM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Dressing rooms are important to Maria Carey but didn't surely no big deal for GAA Footballers
(If they do, throwing Diva like tantrums is the way to get a better dressing room).
Dublin often start badly. However if they start well, dressing rooms and warm up areas are factors? Players in high tempo games don't suddenly remember their warm up routine or the comforting aroma of their dressing room. Cannot think of a Croke Park game that didn't play out or twist by events on the pitch.
It just boils down to one team against another.
Familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
Presumably this is only important since 2011? Or was it even a factor when we lost regulary?
Oh it has always been unfair that Dublin get favouritism over every other county in Ireland regarding their match day preparations in Croke Park.
You could maybe, MAYBE, swallow the fact that they like to warm up in front of the Hill but why in the name of Jaysus should they get allocated the same dressing room for each of their visits there when it is a lottery for every other county in Ireland (when they're not playing the Dubs of course)?
No Dub fan will have an issue with Changing dressing rooms or moving games . We have a very good team and firmly believe it make no difference. Croke Park won't win us an All-Ireland and moving us away won't prevent it.
A better team on the day will be our undoing.
No other AI champion has to endure all this nit picking. More reasons will be touted if success continues . Last year we had the McStay punditry of timing Cluxton's free kicks! Dublin can change rooms/stadiums. Then the focus will shift to free kicks we get , sponsorships, populations, facilities, proximity to an international airport and the bias of having Ciaran Whelan as a panelist. It'll be relentless until someone gives us a hiding in a game of football.
This is not a nit picking agenda at Dublin or their fans. Hell, if I was offered an edge I'd take it too. Can't fathom how arrangements like this can happen in what is supposed to be a neutral stadium.
Fair enough Croí. No idea how dressing rooms are decided but each County should complain if an issue.
Does the dressing room really bother players? (assuming layouts etc are the same).
Either way no one could quantify any benefits. It aids a good start, better morale, worth an extra point or two, etc.
Can't really benefit one team over another. Unless it is just the principle of the arrangement which I can understand
Thisone, (I'm still not going to type out the full name :) is it your belief that Dublin garner NO benefit from playing all championship and home league games in Croke Park?
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
No other AI champion has to endure all this nit picking.
What about Kerry? All their All-Irelands since 1903 have been soft. Cheer up sunshine, it could always be worse.
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 12:42:43 PM
Fair enough Croí. No idea how dressing rooms are decided but each County should complain if an issue.
Does the dressing room really bother players? (assuming layouts etc are the same).
Either way no one could quantify any benefits. It aids a good start, better morale, worth an extra point or two, etc.
Can't really benefit one team over another. Unless it is just the principle of the arrangement which I can understand
The dressing room argument is a nonsense. All the dressing rooms in Croker are of an equal standard. Since the Spring Series started it just made sense for Dublin to stick with the same one.
Equally people complaining about the Dubs always warming up in front of the Hill are just lazy moaners. Why on earth would the opposition want to warm up in front of Dublin's core fanbase?? There's absolutely no advantage to it. The Mayo wans lauding their attempts to take the Hill in that semi-final as if it was some kind of victory must have clouded memories. It had no bearing on the game, or if it had, it would have been Mayo who were imapcted negatively as they are the ones who started slowly. But I honestly doubt they would have started any better or worse had they gone down to the Canal End initially, and certainly their excellent 2nd half comeback and victory had absolutely nothing to do with where the warm-ups took place!
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 12:42:43 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 12:16:41 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 09:46:37 AM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Dressing rooms are important to Maria Carey but didn't surely no big deal for GAA Footballers
(If they do, throwing Diva like tantrums is the way to get a better dressing room).
Dublin often start badly. However if they start well, dressing rooms and warm up areas are factors? Players in high tempo games don't suddenly remember their warm up routine or the comforting aroma of their dressing room. Cannot think of a Croke Park game that didn't play out or twist by events on the pitch.
It just boils down to one team against another.
Familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
Presumably this is only important since 2011? Or was it even a factor when we lost regulary?
Oh it has always been unfair that Dublin get favouritism over every other county in Ireland regarding their match day preparations in Croke Park.
You could maybe, MAYBE, swallow the fact that they like to warm up in front of the Hill but why in the name of Jaysus should they get allocated the same dressing room for each of their visits there when it is a lottery for every other county in Ireland (when they're not playing the Dubs of course)?
No Dub fan will have an issue with Changing dressing rooms or moving games . We have a very good team and firmly believe it make no difference. Croke Park won't win us an All-Ireland and moving us away won't prevent it.
A better team on the day will be our undoing.
No other AI champion has to endure all this nit picking. More reasons will be touted if success continues . Last year we had the McStay punditry of timing Cluxton's free kicks! Dublin can change rooms/stadiums. Then the focus will shift to free kicks we get , sponsorships, populations, facilities, proximity to an international airport and the bias of having Ciaran Whelan as a panelist. It'll be relentless until someone gives us a hiding in a game of football.
This is not a nit picking agenda at Dublin or their fans. Hell, if I was offered an edge I'd take it too. Can't fathom how arrangements like this can happen in what is supposed to be a neutral stadium.
Fair enough Croí. No idea how dressing rooms are decided but each County should complain if an issue.
Does the dressing room really bother players? (assuming layouts etc are the same).
Either way no one could quantify any benefits. It aids a good start, better morale, worth an extra point or two, etc.
Can't really benefit one team over another. Unless it is just the principle of the arrangement which I can understand
Dermot Earley spoke last year of coming out of dressing rooms and not knowing which way it was to the pitch. Dublin never have this dilemma. It has to benefit Dublin over other counties, small margins but still a margin.
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 12:42:43 PM
Fair enough Croí. No idea how dressing rooms are decided but each County should complain if an issue.
Does the dressing room really bother players? (assuming layouts etc are the same).
Either way no one could quantify any benefits. It aids a good start, better morale, worth an extra point or two, etc.
Can't really benefit one team over another. Unless it is just the principle of the arrangement which I can understand
The dressing room argument is a nonsense. All the dressing rooms in Croker are of an equal standard. Since the Spring Series started it just made sense for Dublin to stick with the same one.
Equally people complaining about the Dubs always warming up in front of the Hill are just lazy moaners. Why on earth would the opposition want to warm up in front of Dublin's core fanbase?? There's absolutely no advantage to it. The Mayo wans lauding their attempts to take the Hill in that semi-final as if it was some kind of victory must have clouded memories. It had no bearing on the game, or if it had, it would have been Mayo who were imapcted negatively as they are the ones who started slowly. But I honestly doubt they would have started any better or worse had they gone down to the Canal End initially, and certainly their excellent 2nd half comeback and victory had absolutely nothing to do with where the warm-ups took place!
You're asking the wrong question Hound. The question to be asked is "Why should Dublin be the only county in Ireland who are guaranteed the same end to warm up in, in what is supposed to be a neutral stadium?"
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 12:42:43 PM
Fair enough Croí. No idea how dressing rooms are decided but each County should complain if an issue.
Does the dressing room really bother players? (assuming layouts etc are the same).
Either way no one could quantify any benefits. It aids a good start, better morale, worth an extra point or two, etc.
Can't really benefit one team over another. Unless it is just the principle of the arrangement which I can understand
The dressing room argument is a nonsense. All the dressing rooms in Croker are of an equal standard. Since the Spring Series started it just made sense for Dublin to stick with the same one.
Equally people complaining about the Dubs always warming up in front of the Hill are just lazy moaners. Why on earth would the opposition want to warm up in front of Dublin's core fanbase?? There's absolutely no advantage to it. The Mayo wans lauding their attempts to take the Hill in that semi-final as if it was some kind of victory must have clouded memories. It had no bearing on the game, or if it had, it would have been Mayo who were imapcted negatively as they are the ones who started slowly. But I honestly doubt they would have started any better or worse had they gone down to the Canal End initially, and certainly their excellent 2nd half comeback and victory had absolutely nothing to do with where the warm-ups took place!
Went 4 points to no score up actually, took Dublin around 15 mins to score first point...Conal Keaney blasting over the I think....
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 12:42:43 PM
Fair enough Croí. No idea how dressing rooms are decided but each County should complain if an issue.
Does the dressing room really bother players? (assuming layouts etc are the same).
Either way no one could quantify any benefits. It aids a good start, better morale, worth an extra point or two, etc.
Can't really benefit one team over another. Unless it is just the principle of the arrangement which I can understand
The dressing room argument is a nonsense. All the dressing rooms in Croker are of an equal standard. Since the Spring Series started it just made sense for Dublin to stick with the same one.
Equally people complaining about the Dubs always warming up in front of the Hill are just lazy moaners. Why on earth would the opposition want to warm up in front of Dublin's core fanbase?? There's absolutely no advantage to it. The Mayo wans lauding their attempts to take the Hill in that semi-final as if it was some kind of victory must have clouded memories. It had no bearing on the game, or if it had, it would have been Mayo who were imapcted negatively as they are the ones who started slowly. But I honestly doubt they would have started any better or worse had they gone down to the Canal End initially, and certainly their excellent 2nd half comeback and victory had absolutely nothing to do with where the warm-ups took place!
There is a science to everything, 100% that incident affected Dublin, Pillar Caffrey the Dublin manager lost the plot ffs. Dublin failed to manage their energy, they were angry and not a place you want to be in, they were too up for after that incident. Everything is related to performance control the controllables and the warm-up is a controllable, Dublin were affected, of course it affected their performance.
Sport isn't about the most talented team or individual, it's about the mental, physical, tactical, lifestyle and technical. Jim Gavin recognises this probably more than any other manager in the country, there's a reason why Dublin's backroom team is so big.
Not too much left to contribute on this one except
1. Dressing room argument is absolutely crazy - the dressing rooms in Croker are mirror images of each other and have identical facilitities, med rooms, warm up areas. Dressing rooms can be in an issue in say a provincial final in a neutral venue - don't know whether Semple has a home (and thus a more comfortable) dressing room but I could see it meaning something there. One thing you're guaranteed at Croker is exactly the same facilities as the Dubs, or whoever your opponent may be.
2. People are saying the Dubs have an advantage yet it has never been an issue up until this year. Now something is either inherently unfair or it is not and it should have been addressed years back. To kick up about it now that we are winning does smack of sour grapes, whether intended or not. You should have got on to your county boards long before now to rectify this situation if it was unfair. However, home advantage, debatable as it is, is nowhere near as inherently unequal as having to win less matches to get the same title. As counties like Kerry use to their advantage.
3. Some lads are talking about the advantage the Dubs have of sleeping in their own beds. Lord Jaysis lads, this is scraping the bottom of the barrel. the Dubs play away matches in the League. their opponents in Leinster are usually well able to travel on the day - or you should ask Sean Boylan about how he felt travelling the night before bonded his team. And as for when it gets to the All Ireland series, if this is such an issue, lobby your county board to have the quarter finals taken out of Croker. Or to move the National Stadium. Saying the dubs have an advantage because of where they were born is more than slightly ridiculous.
Quote from: Banter Panther on April 29, 2014, 12:50:29 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
No other AI champion has to endure all this nit picking.
What about Kerry? All their All-Irelands since 1903 have been soft. Cheer up sunshine, it could always be worse.
At least by saying they are soft , it is football related :)
Even talking about how many more games some teams have to play carries more weight than e.g where a game is played. (although I personally see no significance in either).
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 12:59:53 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 12:42:43 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 12:16:41 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 09:46:37 AM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 28, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 28, 2014, 02:01:58 PM
I'm all for letting as many people as possible in to games so until their is a 40k stadium in Leinster taking the Dubs out of Croker isn't really an option. Would the DCB ever look to build a 40k stadium in Dublin? With a cap on tickets you'd be guaranteed a great atmosphere under lights and it would probably be close to sold out for league games.
What I do have an issue with is Dublin being guaranteed the same dressing room and end to warm up in wheras it's a lottery for the other 32 counties if they are not playing Dublin. As AZ said
Quotefamiliarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
p.s. we don't get enough reminders on here of Dublin's blood lines and their tradition, great post easytiger.
Dressing rooms are important to Maria Carey but didn't surely no big deal for GAA Footballers
(If they do, throwing Diva like tantrums is the way to get a better dressing room).
Dublin often start badly. However if they start well, dressing rooms and warm up areas are factors? Players in high tempo games don't suddenly remember their warm up routine or the comforting aroma of their dressing room. Cannot think of a Croke Park game that didn't play out or twist by events on the pitch.
It just boils down to one team against another.
Familiarity breeds comfort, comfort breeds confidence and confidence breeds performance.
Presumably this is only important since 2011? Or was it even a factor when we lost regulary?
Oh it has always been unfair that Dublin get favouritism over every other county in Ireland regarding their match day preparations in Croke Park.
You could maybe, MAYBE, swallow the fact that they like to warm up in front of the Hill but why in the name of Jaysus should they get allocated the same dressing room for each of their visits there when it is a lottery for every other county in Ireland (when they're not playing the Dubs of course)?
No Dub fan will have an issue with Changing dressing rooms or moving games . We have a very good team and firmly believe it make no difference. Croke Park won't win us an All-Ireland and moving us away won't prevent it.
A better team on the day will be our undoing.
No other AI champion has to endure all this nit picking. More reasons will be touted if success continues . Last year we had the McStay punditry of timing Cluxton's free kicks! Dublin can change rooms/stadiums. Then the focus will shift to free kicks we get , sponsorships, populations, facilities, proximity to an international airport and the bias of having Ciaran Whelan as a panelist. It'll be relentless until someone gives us a hiding in a game of football.
This is not a nit picking agenda at Dublin or their fans. Hell, if I was offered an edge I'd take it too. Can't fathom how arrangements like this can happen in what is supposed to be a neutral stadium.
Fair enough Croí. No idea how dressing rooms are decided but each County should complain if an issue.
Does the dressing room really bother players? (assuming layouts etc are the same).
Either way no one could quantify any benefits. It aids a good start, better morale, worth an extra point or two, etc.
Can't really benefit one team over another. Unless it is just the principle of the arrangement which I can understand
Dermot Earley spoke last year of coming out of dressing rooms and not knowing which way it was to the pitch. Dublin never have this dilemma. It has to benefit Dublin over other counties, small margins but still a margin.
Think it was Johnny Doyle who said that? It got laughed out of it in some quarters. He said something along the lines of not knowing which way to go to the pitch.
"Follow your ears Johnny...it 's that bit of light at the end of the tunnel. You'll know it where you are when you get there."
This arguement occurs every year.
Its only an issue now, when Dublin are winning. The same conditions were in place when Tyrone ,Kerry and Armagh were beating Dublin. If anything back then it was probably more of a hinderance to Dublin.
Some items from memory, Cosgrove missing the pressure free into the hill. The bluster and march to the hill before games during Caffreys reign. If anything the weight of expectation has been a curse, and they have underachieved over a 30 year period ( bar the last few )
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 29, 2014, 01:13:02 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 12:42:43 PM
Fair enough Croí. No idea how dressing rooms are decided but each County should complain if an issue.
Does the dressing room really bother players? (assuming layouts etc are the same).
Either way no one could quantify any benefits. It aids a good start, better morale, worth an extra point or two, etc.
Can't really benefit one team over another. Unless it is just the principle of the arrangement which I can understand
The dressing room argument is a nonsense. All the dressing rooms in Croker are of an equal standard. Since the Spring Series started it just made sense for Dublin to stick with the same one.
Equally people complaining about the Dubs always warming up in front of the Hill are just lazy moaners. Why on earth would the opposition want to warm up in front of Dublin's core fanbase?? There's absolutely no advantage to it. The Mayo wans lauding their attempts to take the Hill in that semi-final as if it was some kind of victory must have clouded memories. It had no bearing on the game, or if it had, it would have been Mayo who were imapcted negatively as they are the ones who started slowly. But I honestly doubt they would have started any better or worse had they gone down to the Canal End initially, and certainly their excellent 2nd half comeback and victory had absolutely nothing to do with where the warm-ups took place!
There is a science to everything, 100% that incident affected Dublin, Pillar Caffrey the Dublin manager lost the plot ffs. Dublin failed to manage their energy, they were angry and not a place you want to be in, they were too up for after that incident. Everything is related to performance control the controllables and the warm-up is a controllable, Dublin were affected, of course it affected their performance.
Sport isn't about the most talented team or individual, it's about the mental, physical, tactical, lifestyle and technical. Jim Gavin recognises this probably more than any other manager in the country, there's a reason why Dublin's backroom team is so big.
Sorry but that is mytholgy/good story taking over the facts.
Dublin threw away an 8 pt lead (?) and got beaten by a wonder Mcdonald point. Did the players on both sides suddenly realise the impact of the earlier incident - after about 60 minutes of the game?
Dublin fell apart and Mayo got renewed determination. I don't think so but it will make a good story in years to come..
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 29, 2014, 01:44:36 PM
Not too much left to contribute on this one except
1. Dressing room argument is absolutely crazy - the dressing rooms in Croker are mirror images of each other and have identical facilitities, med rooms, warm up areas. Dressing rooms can be in an issue in say a provincial final in a neutral venue - don't know whether Semple has a home (and thus a more comfortable) dressing room but I could see it meaning something there. One thing you're guaranteed at Croker is exactly the same facilities as the Dubs, or whoever your opponent may be.
2. People are saying the Dubs have an advantage yet it has never been an issue up until this year. Now something is either inherently unfair or it is not and it should have been addressed years back. To kick up about it now that we are winning does smack of sour grapes, whether intended or not. You should have got on to your county boards long before now to rectify this situation if it was unfair. However, home advantage, debatable as it is, is nowhere near as inherently unequal as having to win less matches to get the same title. As counties like Kerry use to their advantage.
3. Some lads are talking about the advantage the Dubs have of sleeping in their own beds. Lord Jaysis lads, this is scraping the bottom of the barrel. the Dubs play away matches in the League. their opponents in Leinster are usually well able to travel on the day - or you should ask Sean Boylan about how he felt travelling the night before bonded his team. And as for when it gets to the All Ireland series, if this is such an issue, lobby your county board to have the quarter finals taken out of Croker. Or to move the National Stadium. Saying the dubs have an advantage because of where they were born is more than slightly ridiculous.
easytiger, I think this has possibly run far beyond the point when it had a point, so this will be my last post because I'm sick of people saying I have some sort of ax to grind against Dublin. For the umpteenth time, nobody has said that Dublin are winning because they are playing in Croke Park all the time.
What I have said, and will stand over until the cows come home, is that routine is very important to top sportsmen. A familiar routine, doing everything the same way, every big game you play is absolutely a comfort and an advantage. A large, partisan 'home' following is also an advantage (although I do accept the 'crowd getting on their back' exception to the rule). Anyone who denies that this is the case is either just denying it for the sake of it, or oblivious to the sort of thing that goes on in players heads.
Now, as an aside to that, I have also said that I would like to see the earlier rounds played out of Croke Park to increase the sense of occasion, to encourage fuller grounds with better atmospheres. This does not mean that I think the Dubs would fall victim to Wicklow below in Aughrim, far from it, but I do think it would enhance the championship as an event. It would also have the side effect of giving Croke Park back some of its mystique.
I have no doubt that the Dubs would embrace playing early championship rounds down the country. They are a fine team and wouldn't give a shite about facing Laois in Portlaoise.
Also, in a related topic, I'd have Dublin play their league games in Parnell Park. Croke Park is not their home venue, it's the HQ of the GAA. I've no real issue with the whole Super Saturday launches or whatever, but a league game in a 3/4 empty Croker is hardly a big deal either.
Lastly, just to pick up on your point about 'Now we're winning so everyone is whinging'. That's not the case. I've said it since Dublin's league games moved to Croke Park that that would be a big help to players coming onto the Dublin panel. Also in the past, Dublin did play championship matches (and won most of them) down the country. In fact I remember wanting Meath to beat Dublin in that 1991 epic because we were down to play Dublin in the minor semi final. If the Dubs won, we'd have been in Portlaoise. Because Meath won, we got a run out at Croker. So in the 'old days' the Dubs were more of a travelling roadshow and didn't get the same sense of home cooking that they do now. I can't even see how this is being debated to be honest. I'll ask the question again, do people honestly believe that playing every game in Croke Park (apart from away league games) is NOT an advantage?
Dublin are better than everybody. Nobody can see into the future. They won't be better than everybody for ever. They mightn't even win the Championship. They won't win five in a row. Remember Donegal's unbeatable 2012 team? The team that were unbeatable until last year? They now have a degree in losing games. They were awarded a Masters after getting the Shane Curran kicked out of them by Mayo. Cheer up boys and girls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLX_6WwXFUI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLX_6WwXFUI)
The playing every game at home is obviously an advantage, a huge one and the denials are ludicrous, but it's not the reason Dublin are winning All Ireland's. The reason for that is money, why are people ignoring the main issue?
I've already gone through what funding they've had for underage work and the conveyor belt of talent that's resulted. Throw in a couple of million every year to prepare the senior squad and how can they fail?
If anyone was to make a list of everything you need to guarantee All Ireland's, they'd describe the situation Dublin have right now.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 02:28:47 PM
The playing every game at home is obviously an advantage, a huge one and the denials are ludicrous, but it's not the reason Dublin are winning All Ireland's. The reason for that is money, why are people ignoring the main issue?
I've already gone through what funding they've had for underage work and the conveyor belt of talent that's resulted. Throw in a couple of million every year to prepare the senior squad and how can they fail?
If anyone was to make a list of everything you need to guarantee All Ireland's, they'd describe the situation Dublin have right now.
Nah that has been covered and several lists have been made. Dubs think it is talking shite and others will concur . Could be worse, nobody could be talking about Dublin. Fascinating team , fascinating subject.
Fair enough AZ and i didn't particularly have you in mind in my reply - but Dublin have been playing League matches in Croker for as long as i can remember - they have been back and forth between Parnell and Croker so many time it is unbelievable. During the McCaul and Mullins management periods in the mid to late 80s all of the League matches in were at headquarters. Now we were being overshadowed by Meath at the time in the championships, but if it was adding even a point to our dismal performances, surely it should have been addressed back then? Something that is unfair inherently doesn't become more unfair because of the actual result. So to bring it up now as a factor in their success (as I think is your position) can be interpreted as sour grapes, with some justification by Dublin fans. Or as is the case with our resident headbanger, it is sour grapes with accusations of cheating thrown in.
I have no problem addressing inequality, but perhaps the inequality of winning only two games to gain a provincial title and entry to the All Ireland series as opposed to three or four should be recognised as far more blatant than the perceived advantages Dublin have?
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 01:51:00 PM
Think it was Johnny Doyle who said that? It got laughed out of it in some quarters. He said something along the lines of not knowing which way to go to the pitch.
"Follow your ears Johnny...it 's that bit of light at the end of the tunnel. You'll know it where you are when you get there."
Certain it was Earley, on Championship Matters IIRC. I'm sure he did get laughed out of it, maybe in one county in particular. Fact is you leave the dressing room, focused on the task in hand, last minute messages ringing in your ears and all of a sudden you're thrown by not knowing where you're going. Dublin don't have this issue. This is only a recent issue because last year was the first time I became aware of it anyway. And I certainly wasn't going to bring it up after the walloping Dublin gave us as it would be interpreted as sour grapes.
The same issue applies to the Dublin hurlers IF they are also guaranteed the exact same dressing room in Croker. I don't know if this is the case or not but it would be equally unfair.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 29, 2014, 11:14:01 AM
QuoteAnyway, my main point is no Leinster Championship games should be played in Croker until the semi final at least, unless you have a particularly mouth watering clash. I know the Dubs wouldn't mind it, so why not Dublin v Wexford down in Wexford? Or v Laois in Portlaoise. Tickets would be scarce, the atmosphere would be great and the whole event would be better.
I agree with this even the semi-finals should be neutral, just imagine Kildare/Meath v Dublin Leinster semi-final in Portlaoise, 30K sell-out, ticket fever, whinging fans, phone calls to live-line, Evening Herald headlines damning the GAA, queues for tickets. It creates an event, something to look forward to, instead we get a 40K at a double header in Croke Park with no atmosphere for the first game and nothing but empty seats by the end of the second.
The big winners would be Portlaoise and the Dublin supporters who get a decent road trip and we would probably even get a decent game of football. It shouldn't always be about the money!!
the Kildare v Meath games and the dubs v Laois could have been stand alone fixtures in Laois which I reckon would have got a cumulative attendance of 45/50k with two great ocasdions.
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 02:39:10 PM
Nah that has been covered and several lists have been made. Dubs think it is talking shite and others will concur . Could be worse, nobody could be talking about Dublin. Fascinating team , fascinating subject.
What we're meant to believe is that Dublin playing at home every game isn't an advantage and having huge resources for underage structures and senior team preparation isn't an advantage either? ;D
Maybe Dublin should play every game away from home and be given no money, it wouldn't be a disadvantage to them would it?
As the most intelligent member on this board, let me break it down for everybody.
Do Dublin have an advantage playing at home: yes.
Do Dublin have an advantage thanks to their finances: yes.
Are Dublin the best football team in the country anyway: yes.
Does this mean that those advantages don't matter: no.
Should Dublin have to play some matches outside of Croke Park: yes.
Would this mean they wouldn't win the All-Ireland: no.
So they'd definitely win the All-Ireland anyway?: no.
Are Dublin unbeatable, just like the last unbeatable football team (Donegal): no.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 02:43:38 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 01:51:00 PM
Think it was Johnny Doyle who said that? It got laughed out of it in some quarters. He said something along the lines of not knowing which way to go to the pitch.
"Follow your ears Johnny...it 's that bit of light at the end of the tunnel. You'll know it where you are when you get there."
Certain it was Earley, on Championship Matters IIRC. I'm sure he did get laughed out of it, maybe in one county in particular. Fact is you leave the dressing room, focused on the task in hand, last minute messages ringing in your ears and all of a sudden you're thrown by not knowing where you're going. Dublin don't have this issue. This is only a recent issue because last year was the first time I became aware of it anyway. And I certainly wasn't going to bring it up after the walloping Dublin gave us as it would be interpreted as sour grapes.
The same issue applies to the Dublin hurlers IF they are also guaranteed the exact same dressing room in Croker. I don't know if this is the case or not but it would be equally unfair.
Ye could be right ,I just pictured JD saying it. Reading what ye say is still funny. Reminds me of the 'Spinal Tap' scene where the band can't find the stage.
Not finding my way out a dressing room would be just that. A funny story, not a talking point.
I couldn't find my way to the kitchen yesterday and had to do without breakfast. Put me on the back foot for the rest of the day.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 02:47:48 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 02:39:10 PM
Nah that has been covered and several lists have been made. Dubs think it is talking shite and others will concur . Could be worse, nobody could be talking about Dublin. Fascinating team , fascinating subject.
What we're meant to believe is that Dublin playing at home every game isn't an advantage and having huge resources for underage structures and senior team preparation isn't an advantage either? ;D
Maybe Dublin should play every game away from home and be given no money, it wouldn't be a disadvantage to them would it?
No one is asking you to believe anything DC. Folk can come with ever theory and reason they like. In fact most on here are .
Ye are equating a sudden success to money and home advantage. This is not a swimmer who suddenly knocked 20 seconds off their Personal best. Dublin team have earned it. They have been thereabouts for a good few years. Been close and took painful beatings. We lacked the mental ability to see an AI through. Pat Gilroy fixed that. Jim Gavin took it to the next stage. Brogans, Cluxton, Flynn, Connolly, Brennan, MDMA, ...nothing to do with money. Talented players who finally clicked as a unit (underlying again good management ). The current management has done more than previous in introducing young or forgotten players and demanding everyone fights for their place. Previous Dub team had undeniable talent but maybe some were too complacent . There was not the fear of new players being thrown in ahead of them. It was a fairly tight knit squad to try break into .
On your last point, you need to ask the GAA to move finals out of HQ. Have no concern where we play. Explain the money thing in more detail and will reply. At the moment it is just a phrase that means little to the current team's achievement.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 29, 2014, 02:00:40 PM
easytiger, I think this has possibly run far beyond the point when it had a point, so this will be my last post because I'm sick of people saying I have some sort of ax to grind against Dublin. For the umpteenth time, nobody has said that Dublin are winning because they are playing in Croke Park all the time.
What I have said, and will stand over until the cows come home, is that routine is very important to top sportsmen. A familiar routine, doing everything the same way, every big game you play is absolutely a comfort and an advantage. A large, partisan 'home' following is also an advantage (although I do accept the 'crowd getting on their back' exception to the rule). Anyone who denies that this is the case is either just denying it for the sake of it, or oblivious to the sort of thing that goes on in players heads.
Now, as an aside to that, I have also said that I would like to see the earlier rounds played out of Croke Park to increase the sense of occasion, to encourage fuller grounds with better atmospheres. This does not mean that I think the Dubs would fall victim to Wicklow below in Aughrim, far from it, but I do think it would enhance the championship as an event. It would also have the side effect of giving Croke Park back some of its mystique.
I have no doubt that the Dubs would embrace playing early championship rounds down the country. They are a fine team and wouldn't give a shite about facing Laois in Portlaoise.
Also, in a related topic, I'd have Dublin play their league games in Parnell Park. Croke Park is not their home venue, it's the HQ of the GAA. I've no real issue with the whole Super Saturday launches or whatever, but a league game in a 3/4 empty Croker is hardly a big deal either.
Lastly, just to pick up on your point about 'Now we're winning so everyone is whinging'. That's not the case. I've said it since Dublin's league games moved to Croke Park that that would be a big help to players coming onto the Dublin panel. Also in the past, Dublin did play championship matches (and won most of them) down the country. In fact I remember wanting Meath to beat Dublin in that 1991 epic because we were down to play Dublin in the minor semi final. If the Dubs won, we'd have been in Portlaoise. Because Meath won, we got a run out at Croker. So in the 'old days' the Dubs were more of a travelling roadshow and didn't get the same sense of home cooking that they do now. I can't even see how this is being debated to be honest. I'll ask the question again, do people honestly believe that playing every game in Croke Park (apart from away league games) is NOT an advantage?
Quote from: Banter Panther on April 29, 2014, 02:58:26 PM
As the most intelligent member on this board, let me break it down for everybody.
Do Dublin have an advantage playing at home: yes.
Do Dublin have an advantage thanks to their finances: yes.
Are Dublin the best football team in the country anyway: yes.
Does this mean that those advantages don't matter: no.
Should Dublin have to play some matches outside of Croke Park: yes.
Would this mean they wouldn't win the All-Ireland: no.
So they'd definitely win the All-Ireland anyway?: no.
Are Dublin unbeatable, just like the last unbeatable football team (Donegal): no.
Two pieces that sum it up!
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 02:43:38 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 01:51:00 PM
Think it was Johnny Doyle who said that? It got laughed out of it in some quarters. He said something along the lines of not knowing which way to go to the pitch.
"Follow your ears Johnny...it 's that bit of light at the end of the tunnel. You'll know it where you are when you get there."
Certain it was Earley, on Championship Matters IIRC. I'm sure he did get laughed out of it, maybe in one county in particular. Fact is you leave the dressing room, focused on the task in hand, last minute messages ringing in your ears and all of a sudden you're thrown by not knowing where you're going. Dublin don't have this issue. This is only a recent issue because last year was the first time I became aware of it anyway. And I certainly wasn't going to bring it up after the walloping Dublin gave us as it would be interpreted as sour grapes.
The same issue applies to the Dublin hurlers IF they are also guaranteed the exact same dressing room in Croker. I don't know if this is the case or not but it would be equally unfair.
Correct it wasnt the virgin mary johnny doyle but sergeant bilko himself earley, the chief brigadier, strategist and commander got lost coming out of the dressing rooms ::)
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 03:39:46 PM
No one is asking you to believe anything DC. Folk can come with ever theory and reason they like. In fact most on here are .
Ye are equating a sudden success to money and home advantage. This is not a swimmer who suddenly knocked 20 seconds off their Personal best. Dublin team have earned it. They have been thereabouts for a good few years. Been close and took painful beatings. We lacked the mental ability to see an AI through. Pat Gilroy fixed that. Jim Gavin took it to the next stage. Brogans, Cluxton, Flynn, Connolly, Brennan, MDMA, ...nothing to do with money. Talented players who finally clicked as a unit (underlying again good management ). The current management has done more than previous in introducing young or forgotten players and demanding everyone fights for their place. Previous Dub team had undeniable talent but maybe some were too complacent . There was not the fear of new players being thrown in ahead of them. It was a fairly tight knit squad to try break into .
On your last point, you need to ask the GAA to move finals out of HQ. Have no concern where we play. Explain the money thing in more detail and will reply. At the moment it is just a phrase that means little to the current team's achievement.
Playing at home is an advantage. Having millions of euro at your disposal is an advantage. These aren't theory's, they are cold, hard facts.
Dublin got the games development money to improve football and hurling. In hurling they were nowhere, on a par with Laois and Antrim. The money has brought them a Leinster championship and they're now All Ireland contenders. In football they already had a base, they were competitive at the top level as it was, so the money has brought them to the top.
The time scales all match. The money comes in, underage teams results improve substantially and then the senior teams results improve dramatically, with the aid of their separate fund. Again, this is not opinion. Arguing against this is like arguing that there is no sun, it's fact and it's burning a hole in the very ethos of the GAA.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 05:05:25 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 03:39:46 PM
No one is asking you to believe anything DC. Folk can come with ever theory and reason they like. In fact most on here are .
Ye are equating a sudden success to money and home advantage. This is not a swimmer who suddenly knocked 20 seconds off their Personal best. Dublin team have earned it. They have been thereabouts for a good few years. Been close and took painful beatings. We lacked the mental ability to see an AI through. Pat Gilroy fixed that. Jim Gavin took it to the next stage. Brogans, Cluxton, Flynn, Connolly, Brennan, MDMA, ...nothing to do with money. Talented players who finally clicked as a unit (underlying again good management ). The current management has done more than previous in introducing young or forgotten players and demanding everyone fights for their place. Previous Dub team had undeniable talent but maybe some were too complacent . There was not the fear of new players being thrown in ahead of them. It was a fairly tight knit squad to try break into .
On your last point, you need to ask the GAA to move finals out of HQ. Have no concern where we play. Explain the money thing in more detail and will reply. At the moment it is just a phrase that means little to the current team's achievement.
Playing at home is an advantage. Having millions of euro at your disposal is an advantage. These aren't theory's, they are cold, hard facts.
Dublin got the games development money to improve football and hurling. In hurling they were nowhere, on a par with Laois and Antrim. The money has brought them a Leinster championship and they're now All Ireland contenders. In football they already had a base, they were competitive at the top level as it was, so the money has brought them to the top.
The time scales all match. The money comes in, underage teams results improve substantially and then the senior teams results improve dramatically, with the aid of their separate fund. Again, this is not opinion. Arguing against this is like arguing that there is no sun, it's fact and it's burning a hole in the very ethos of the GAA.
Thats bullshit. Dublin's hurling revival started when the DCB submitted a blueprint in the late 90's. That was open to every other county too. But likes of Laois, Carlow etc and all these other counties were only interested in football and ensuring they got high profile managers.
Instead of waffling on with complete inaccuracies as you are you should be asking your county board
a) Why didn't they do the same
b) What happened to all the monies.
But no its easier to lie and make up things about the big bad wolf.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 02:43:38 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 01:51:00 PM
Think it was Johnny Doyle who said that? It got laughed out of it in some quarters. He said something along the lines of not knowing which way to go to the pitch.
"Follow your ears Johnny...it 's that bit of light at the end of the tunnel. You'll know it where you are when you get there."
Certain it was Earley, on Championship Matters IIRC. I'm sure he did get laughed out of it, maybe in one county in particular. Fact is you leave the dressing room, focused on the task in hand, last minute messages ringing in your ears and all of a sudden you're thrown by not knowing where you're going. Dublin don't have this issue. This is only a recent issue because last year was the first time I became aware of it anyway. And I certainly wasn't going to bring it up after the walloping Dublin gave us as it would be interpreted as sour grapes.
The same issue applies to the Dublin hurlers IF they are also guaranteed the exact same dressing room in Croker. I don't know if this is the case or not but it would be equally unfair.
It was Dermot and he was clearly joking/exaggerating to illustrate the point.
Of course the dressing room has barely a miniscule impact on the game itself and Dublin would still beat all the teams in Leinster if they were made tog out in the gents at the back of the Hogan Stand but if Croke Park is a neutral venue for championship matches then the same protocols and procedures should apply to all teams.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2014, 05:31:19 PM
Thats bullshit. Dublin's hurling revival started when the DCB submitted a blueprint in the late 90's. That was open to every other county too. But likes of Laois, Carlow etc and all these other counties were only interested in football and ensuring they got high profile managers.
Instead of waffling on with complete inaccuracies as you are you should be asking your county board
a) Why didn't they do the same
b) What happened to all the monies.
But no its easier to lie and make up things about the big bad wolf.
The money hasn't helped at all? Why have millions been pumped into Dublin GAA when they didn't need it? According to the Dubs, they would have won all the underage titles and the senior titles that followed without the money. So will Dublin GAA pay all the money back? It's been a waste giving it to them. Any future funding should be stopped also.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 05:51:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2014, 05:31:19 PM
Thats bullshit. Dublin's hurling revival started when the DCB submitted a blueprint in the late 90's. That was open to every other county too. But likes of Laois, Carlow etc and all these other counties were only interested in football and ensuring they got high profile managers.
Instead of waffling on with complete inaccuracies as you are you should be asking your county board
a) Why didn't they do the same
b) What happened to all the monies.
But no its easier to lie and make up things about the big bad wolf.
The money hasn't helped at all? Why have millions been pumped into Dublin GAA when they didn't need it? According to the Dubs, they would have won all the underage titles and the senior titles that followed without the money. So will Dublin GAA pay all the money back? It's been a waste giving it to them. Any future funding should be stopped also.
its very hard to count this money with all the trophies in the way
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 05:51:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2014, 05:31:19 PM
Thats bullshit. Dublin's hurling revival started when the DCB submitted a blueprint in the late 90's. That was open to every other county too. But likes of Laois, Carlow etc and all these other counties were only interested in football and ensuring they got high profile managers.
Instead of waffling on with complete inaccuracies as you are you should be asking your county board
a) Why didn't they do the same
b) What happened to all the monies.
But no its easier to lie and make up things about the big bad wolf.
The money hasn't helped at all? Why have millions been pumped into Dublin GAA when they didn't need it? According to the Dubs, they would have won all the underage titles and the senior titles that followed without the money. So will Dublin GAA pay all the money back? It's been a waste giving it to them. Any future funding should be stopped also.
You haven't answered the question and I'd like an answer.
Laois gets 250k per annum now for its hurling plan because Pat Critchley and Co put together a blueprint and submitted it. There was nothing to stop that happening in the late 90's.
But the reason it didn't were because you had no interest in hurling and you were too fond of paying excess mileage rates
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 29, 2014, 05:33:06 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 29, 2014, 02:43:38 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 01:51:00 PM
Think it was Johnny Doyle who said that? It got laughed out of it in some quarters. He said something along the lines of not knowing which way to go to the pitch.
"Follow your ears Johnny...it 's that bit of light at the end of the tunnel. You'll know it where you are when you get there."
Certain it was Earley, on Championship Matters IIRC. I'm sure he did get laughed out of it, maybe in one county in particular. Fact is you leave the dressing room, focused on the task in hand, last minute messages ringing in your ears and all of a sudden you're thrown by not knowing where you're going. Dublin don't have this issue. This is only a recent issue because last year was the first time I became aware of it anyway. And I certainly wasn't going to bring it up after the walloping Dublin gave us as it would be interpreted as sour grapes.
The same issue applies to the Dublin hurlers IF they are also guaranteed the exact same dressing room in Croker. I don't know if this is the case or not but it would be equally unfair.
It was Dermot and he was clearly joking/exaggerating to illustrate the point.
Of course the dressing room has barely a miniscule impact on the game itself and Dublin would still beat all the teams in Leinster if they were made tog out in the gents at the back of the Hogan Stand but if Croke Park is a neutral venue for championship matches then the same protocols and procedures should apply to all teams.
No arguments on that. Don't know if there is any written rule on how these things work but it is question for the GAA to clarify.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2014, 06:21:27 PM
You haven't answered the question and I'd like an answer.
Laois gets 250k per annum now for its hurling plan because Pat Critchley and Co put together a blueprint and submitted it. There was nothing to stop that happening in the late 90's.
But the reason it didn't were because you had no interest in hurling and you were too fond of paying excess mileage rates
The usual deflection from Bertie. Laois and 3 other counties get 250k now because the money wasn't available before. They gave the money to Dublin to get a return on an investment, it was a business decision. If you want to discuss this further there's a Laois thread on the hurling forum.
This thread is about Dublin GAA and you've failed to answer anything about the money. Should Dublin GAA pay it all back if you think it had no impact in improving standards at underage level and subsequently at senior?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 06:38:17 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2014, 06:21:27 PM
You haven't answered the question and I'd like an answer.
Laois gets 250k per annum now for its hurling plan because Pat Critchley and Co put together a blueprint and submitted it. There was nothing to stop that happening in the late 90's.
But the reason it didn't were because you had no interest in hurling and you were too fond of paying excess mileage rates
The usual deflection from Bertie. Laois and 3 other counties get 250k now because the money wasn't available before. They gave the money to Dublin to get a return on an investment, it was a business decision. If you want to discuss this further there's a Laois thread on the hurling forum.
This thread is about Dublin GAA and you've failed to answer anything about the money. Should Dublin GAA pay it all back if you think it had no impact in improving standards at underage level and subsequently at senior?
You're consistent at least...............no answers.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 05:05:25 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 03:39:46 PM
No one is asking you to believe anything DC. Folk can come with ever theory and reason they like. In fact most on here are .
Ye are equating a sudden success to money and home advantage. This is not a swimmer who suddenly knocked 20 seconds off their Personal best. Dublin team have earned it. They have been thereabouts for a good few years. Been close and took painful beatings. We lacked the mental ability to see an AI through. Pat Gilroy fixed that. Jim Gavin took it to the next stage. Brogans, Cluxton, Flynn, Connolly, Brennan, MDMA, ...nothing to do with money. Talented players who finally clicked as a unit (underlying again good management ). The current management has done more than previous in introducing young or forgotten players and demanding everyone fights for their place. Previous Dub team had undeniable talent but maybe some were too complacent . There was not the fear of new players being thrown in ahead of them. It was a fairly tight knit squad to try break into .
On your last point, you need to ask the GAA to move finals out of HQ. Have no concern where we play. Explain the money thing in more detail and will reply. At the moment it is just a phrase that means little to the current team's achievement.
Playing at home is an advantage. Having millions of euro at your disposal is an advantage. These aren't theory's, they are cold, hard facts.
Dublin got the games development money to improve football and hurling. In hurling they were nowhere, on a par with Laois and Antrim. The money has brought them a Leinster championship and they're now All Ireland contenders. In football they already had a base, they were competitive at the top level as it was, so the money has brought them to the top.
The time scales all match. The money comes in, underage teams results improve substantially and then the senior teams results improve dramatically, with the aid of their separate fund. Again, this is not opinion. Arguing against this is like arguing that there is no sun, it's fact and it's burning a hole in the very ethos of the GAA.
Saying ' Its fact' on social media is just rhetoric to be honest
Your last sentence sums up what you have decided and are going to stick to. 'Very ethos of the GAA' Jasyis. To me the very ethos of the GAA is seeing clubs where parents/families put a lot to time into their club. I know loads who give all their time to training young players . It's time and dedication - they get no money. Muddy pitches and second hand bibs like everyone else.
My local club has dedicated members but trust me , feck all money. They recently got a player into the senior panel which was a big achievement. You can tell me money is the reason but i would assure you that the player himself, his club coaching staff and the willingness of Dublin selectors to look at all potential players is the reason.
If you caught the snippet on Hector's GAA docu, it showed a club like Cuala and how they started nourishing talent. A club in a rugby stronghold , it took a lot of effort by Parents to keep the club running and move it forward. Again no sign of money used to progress talent. Dedicated people are big factors in Dublin GAA too.......
WOW!: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=24580.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=24580.0)
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 06:38:17 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2014, 06:21:27 PM
You haven't answered the question and I'd like an answer.
Laois gets 250k per annum now for its hurling plan because Pat Critchley and Co put together a blueprint and submitted it. There was nothing to stop that happening in the late 90's.
But the reason it didn't were because you had no interest in hurling and you were too fond of paying excess mileage rates
The usual deflection from Bertie. Laois and 3 other counties get 250k now because the money wasn't available before. They gave the money to Dublin to get a return on an investment, it was a business decision. If you want to discuss this further there's a Laois thread on the hurling forum.
This thread is about Dublin GAA and you've failed to answer anything about the money. Should Dublin GAA pay it all back if you think it had no impact in improving standards at underage level and subsequently at senior?
...its about 'playing at home for the rest of the season' .....doesn't say Dublin GAA....but most threads tend to be about Dublin (unless started by a Dub :) )
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2014, 06:40:16 PM
You're consistent at least...............no answers.
Talkiin to yourself in your old age Bertie. Not a good sign.
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 06:48:31 PM
Saying ' Its fact' on social media is just rhetoric to be honest
Your last sentence sums up what you have decided and are going to stick to. 'Very ethos of the GAA' Jasyis. To me the very ethos of the GAA is seeing clubs where parents/families put a lot to time into their club. I know loads who give all their time to training young players . It's time and dedication - they get no money. Muddy pitches and second hand bibs like everyone else.
My local club has dedicated members but trust me , feck all money. They recently got a player into the senior panel which was a big achievement. You can tell me money is the reason but i would assure you that the player himself, his club coaching staff and the willingness of Dublin selectors to look at all potential players is the reason.
If you caught the snippet on Hector's GAA docu, it showed a club like Cuala and how they started nourishing talent. A club in a rugby stronghold , it took a lot of effort by Parents to keep the club running and move it forward. Again no sign of money used to progress talent. Dedicated people are big factors in Dublin GAA too.......
The GAA is an amateur association, having a professional team compete is against its very ethos.
Like I asked Bertie, if money had nothing to do with it then why don't you pay it back? What did ye do with it all?
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
...its about 'playing at home for the rest of the season' .....doesn't say Dublin GAA....but most threads tend to be about Dublin (unless started by a Dub :) )
Who else is playing at home for the rest of the season?
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 07:19:52 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 06:48:31 PM
Saying ' Its fact' on social media is just rhetoric to be honest
Your last sentence sums up what you have decided and are going to stick to. 'Very ethos of the GAA' Jasyis. To me the very ethos of the GAA is seeing clubs where parents/families put a lot to time into their club. I know loads who give all their time to training young players . It's time and dedication - they get no money. Muddy pitches and second hand bibs like everyone else.
My local club has dedicated members but trust me , feck all money. They recently got a player into the senior panel which was a big achievement. You can tell me money is the reason but i would assure you that the player himself, his club coaching staff and the willingness of Dublin selectors to look at all potential players is the reason.
If you caught the snippet on Hector's GAA docu, it showed a club like Cuala and how they started nourishing talent. A club in a rugby stronghold , it took a lot of effort by Parents to keep the club running and move it forward. Again no sign of money used to progress talent. Dedicated people are big factors in Dublin GAA too.......
The GAA is an amateur association, having a professional team compete is against its very ethos.
Like I asked Bertie, if money had nothing to do with it then why don't you pay it back? What did ye do with it all?
I gave my share to the banks. It's all about the Ethos....
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
...its about 'playing at home for the rest of the season' .....doesn't say Dublin GAA....but most threads tend to be about Dublin (unless started by a Dub :) )
Who else is playing at home for the rest of the season?
New York I think....
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 07:40:47 PM
I gave my share to the banks. It's all about the Ethos....
Yeah your bankers robbed us aswell.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 07:19:52 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 06:48:31 PM
Saying ' Its fact' on social media is just rhetoric to be honest
Your last sentence sums up what you have decided and are going to stick to. 'Very ethos of the GAA' Jasyis. To me the very ethos of the GAA is seeing clubs where parents/families put a lot to time into their club. I know loads who give all their time to training young players . It's time and dedication - they get no money. Muddy pitches and second hand bibs like everyone else.
My local club has dedicated members but trust me , feck all money. They recently got a player into the senior panel which was a big achievement. You can tell me money is the reason but i would assure you that the player himself, his club coaching staff and the willingness of Dublin selectors to look at all potential players is the reason.
If you caught the snippet on Hector's GAA docu, it showed a club like Cuala and how they started nourishing talent. A club in a rugby stronghold , it took a lot of effort by Parents to keep the club running and move it forward. Again no sign of money used to progress talent. Dedicated people are big factors in Dublin GAA too.......
The GAA is an amateur association, having a professional team compete is against its very ethos.
Like I asked Bertie, if money had nothing to do with it then why don't you pay it back? What did ye do with it all?
Who on the dublin team is getting paid?
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
What confuses me is why Laois (especially) and Wicklow haven't complained about the winners of their match going to Croker
That's a very good point Hound. Why the hell haven't Laois & Wicklow County Boards raised this issue ?
Wicklow are never a pushover in Aughrim (Laois will never forget losing there in 1986 as NFL Champions).
Wicklow also took some scalps there in the qualifiers under Micko. Laois have fond memories of beating Dublin in 1981 Leinster Semi-Final in Tullamore. Would be far better if all matches before Leinster Final (excluding Dubs Vs Kildare or Dubs Vs Meath for obvious reasons) were held at provincial venues. The Dubs wouldn't mind, an adventure for their followers and a boom for local business.
Don't Matter - you seem to have a lot of time on your hands - any chance of a help-out on the bog while the weather is fine ?
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on April 29, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
What confuses me is why Laois (especially) and Wicklow haven't complained about the winners of their match going to Croker
That's a very good point Hound. Why the hell haven't Laois & Wicklow County Boards raised this issue ?
Wicklow are never a pushover in Aughrim (Laois will never forget losing there in 1986 as NFL Champions).
Don't Matter - you seem to have a lot of time on your hands - any chance of a help-out on the bog while the weather is fine ?
Classsic! Don't hold your breath, though.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on April 29, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
What confuses me is why Laois (especially) and Wicklow haven't complained about the winners of their match going to Croker
That's a very good point Hound. Why the hell haven't Laois & Wicklow County Boards raised this issue ?
Wicklow are never a pushover in Aughrim (Laois will never forget losing there in 1986 as NFL Champions).
Wicklow also took some scalps there in the qualifiers under Micko. Laois have fond memories of beating Dublin in 1981 Leinster Semi-Final in Tullamore. Would be far better if all matches before Leinster Final (excluding Dubs Vs Kildare or Dubs Vs Meath for obvious reasons) were held at provincial venues. The Dubs wouldn't mind, an adventure for their followers and a boom for local business.
Don't Matter - you seem to have a lot of time on your hands - any chance of a help-out on the bog while the weather is fine ?
maybe Laois and Wicklow want to play in croker ! Bit like Wexford giving up home advantage against Dublin a few years ago. It's a good system. Play Dublin in croker and then give out about home advantage when your beaten that way your never truly beaten!
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 30, 2014, 07:06:21 AM
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on April 29, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
What confuses me is why Laois (especially) and Wicklow haven't complained about the winners of their match going to Croker
That's a very good point Hound. Why the hell haven't Laois & Wicklow County Boards raised this issue ?
Wicklow are never a pushover in Aughrim (Laois will never forget losing there in 1986 as NFL Champions).
Wicklow also took some scalps there in the qualifiers under Micko. Laois have fond memories of beating Dublin in 1981 Leinster Semi-Final in Tullamore. Would be far better if all matches before Leinster Final (excluding Dubs Vs Kildare or Dubs Vs Meath for obvious reasons) were held at provincial venues. The Dubs wouldn't mind, an adventure for their followers and a boom for local business.
Don't Matter - you seem to have a lot of time on your hands - any chance of a help-out on the bog while the weather is fine ?
maybe Laois and Wicklow want to play in croker ! Bit like Wexford giving up home advantage against Dublin a few years ago. It's a good system. Play Dublin in croker and then give out about home advantage when your beaten that way your never truly beaten!
Because they get a cut of the gate receipts of the game being moved to CP. A far bigger cut then they would get if it was in their own home ground.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 07:54:10 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 07:40:47 PM
I gave my share to the banks. It's all about the Ethos....
Yeah your bankers robbed us aswell.
if only they were my banks mate, i would be posting from the Seychelles now.
Am sure your Counties election results will reflect the anger of the bank situation :) ...
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 07:55:33 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 07:42:48 PM
New York I think....
Not if they beat Mayo.
How comes Mayo can get NY in a championship game? Very unfair.....but it is ok cos they don't have home advantage (or money to fund the tough trip)
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on April 29, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
What confuses me is why Laois (especially) and Wicklow haven't complained about the winners of their match going to Croker
That's a very good point Hound. Why the hell haven't Laois & Wicklow County Boards raised this issue ?
Wicklow are never a pushover in Aughrim (Laois will never forget losing there in 1986 as NFL Champions).
Wicklow also took some scalps there in the qualifiers under Micko. Laois have fond memories of beating Dublin in 1981 Leinster Semi-Final in Tullamore. Would be far better if all matches before Leinster Final (excluding Dubs Vs Kildare or Dubs Vs Meath for obvious reasons) were held at provincial venues. The Dubs wouldn't mind, an adventure for their followers and a boom for local business.
Sean Moran in the Times today said there was a proposal this year that the early rounds of the Leinster championship all be played outside Croke Park. It only got 2 votes so the Dubs are back in Croker.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 30, 2014, 07:48:13 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 30, 2014, 07:06:21 AM
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on April 29, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
What confuses me is why Laois (especially) and Wicklow haven't complained about the winners of their match going to Croker
That's a very good point Hound. Why the hell haven't Laois & Wicklow County Boards raised this issue ?
Wicklow are never a pushover in Aughrim (Laois will never forget losing there in 1986 as NFL Champions).
Wicklow also took some scalps there in the qualifiers under Micko. Laois have fond memories of beating Dublin in 1981 Leinster Semi-Final in Tullamore. Would be far better if all matches before Leinster Final (excluding Dubs Vs Kildare or Dubs Vs Meath for obvious reasons) were held at provincial venues. The Dubs wouldn't mind, an adventure for their followers and a boom for local business.
Don't Matter - you seem to have a lot of time on your hands - any chance of a help-out on the bog while the weather is fine ?
maybe Laois and Wicklow want to play in croker ! Bit like Wexford giving up home advantage against Dublin a few years ago. It's a good system. Play Dublin in croker and then give out about home advantage when your beaten that way your never truly beaten!
Because they get a cut of the gate receipts of the game being moved to CP. A far bigger cut then they would get if it was in their own home ground.
so is it the rest of the Leinster counties that want Dublin to play in croker?
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 30, 2014, 08:35:28 AM
so is it the rest of the Leinster counties that want Dublin to play in croker?
In a nutshell
Quote from: Hound on April 30, 2014, 08:34:26 AM
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on April 29, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
What confuses me is why Laois (especially) and Wicklow haven't complained about the winners of their match going to Croker
That's a very good point Hound. Why the hell haven't Laois & Wicklow County Boards raised this issue ?
Wicklow are never a pushover in Aughrim (Laois will never forget losing there in 1986 as NFL Champions).
Wicklow also took some scalps there in the qualifiers under Micko. Laois have fond memories of beating Dublin in 1981 Leinster Semi-Final in Tullamore. Would be far better if all matches before Leinster Final (excluding Dubs Vs Kildare or Dubs Vs Meath for obvious reasons) were held at provincial venues. The Dubs wouldn't mind, an adventure for their followers and a boom for local business.
Sean Moran in the Times today said there was a proposal this year that the early rounds of the Leinster championship all be played outside Croke Park. It only got 2 votes so the Dubs are back in Croker.
Well there you go the Turkeys vote for Christmas! Not much more that can be said on this topic! Like the inequalities of the provincial championship and the seeding of some of these provinces. There will always be inequalities in the game and with the powers that be are happy with the situations, I suppose we will just have to put up!
Quote from: INDIANA on April 30, 2014, 07:48:13 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 30, 2014, 07:06:21 AM
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on April 29, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
What confuses me is why Laois (especially) and Wicklow haven't complained about the winners of their match going to Croker
That's a very good point Hound. Why the hell haven't Laois & Wicklow County Boards raised this issue ?
Wicklow are never a pushover in Aughrim (Laois will never forget losing there in 1986 as NFL Champions).
Wicklow also took some scalps there in the qualifiers under Micko. Laois have fond memories of beating Dublin in 1981 Leinster Semi-Final in Tullamore. Would be far better if all matches before Leinster Final (excluding Dubs Vs Kildare or Dubs Vs Meath for obvious reasons) were held at provincial venues. The Dubs wouldn't mind, an adventure for their followers and a boom for local business.
Don't Matter - you seem to have a lot of time on your hands - any chance of a help-out on the bog while the weather is fine ?
maybe Laois and Wicklow want to play in croker ! Bit like Wexford giving up home advantage against Dublin a few years ago. It's a good system. Play Dublin in croker and then give out about home advantage when your beaten that way your never truly beaten!
Because they get a cut of the gate receipts of the game being moved to CP. A far bigger cut then they would get if it was in their own home ground.
Are you sure thats right Indiana ? I thought championship gate recipets go into a central pot rather than the specific counties. Natiuonal league is different.
The reason why im questioning it ( and could be wrong) was a comment form a county board treasurer a few years ago stating, that from a financial perspective the best for a county would be be in the national league league final and knocked out in the first round of the championship!
Quote from: Bensars on April 30, 2014, 09:47:47 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 30, 2014, 07:48:13 AM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on April 30, 2014, 07:06:21 AM
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on April 29, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 29, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
What confuses me is why Laois (especially) and Wicklow haven't complained about the winners of their match going to Croker
That's a very good point Hound. Why the hell haven't Laois & Wicklow County Boards raised this issue ?
Wicklow are never a pushover in Aughrim (Laois will never forget losing there in 1986 as NFL Champions).
Wicklow also took some scalps there in the qualifiers under Micko. Laois have fond memories of beating Dublin in 1981 Leinster Semi-Final in Tullamore. Would be far better if all matches before Leinster Final (excluding Dubs Vs Kildare or Dubs Vs Meath for obvious reasons) were held at provincial venues. The Dubs wouldn't mind, an adventure for their followers and a boom for local business.
Don't Matter - you seem to have a lot of time on your hands - any chance of a help-out on the bog while the weather is fine ?
maybe Laois and Wicklow want to play in croker ! Bit like Wexford giving up home advantage against Dublin a few years ago. It's a good system. Play Dublin in croker and then give out about home advantage when your beaten that way your never truly beaten!
Because they get a cut of the gate receipts of the game being moved to CP. A far bigger cut then they would get if it was in their own home ground.
Are you sure thats right Indiana ? I thought championship gate recipets go into a central pot rather than the specific counties. Natiuonal league is different.
The reason why im questioning it ( and could be wrong) was a comment form a county board treasurer a few years ago stating, that from a financial perspective the best for a county would be be in the national league league final and knocked out in the first round of the championship!
I thought it was that all gate receipts for games in the Leinster championship are pooled together, and then divided amongst the Leinster counties. So a 25,000 attendance in Portlaoise versus a 45,000 attendance in Croke Park is money lost for all Leinster counties (although I doubt the difference in attendance would be that high)
I think Dublin might bring bigger crowds this year! Most likely the biggest since before the downturn
The Dubs are saying its only a problem now that they are winning? It might be getting a bit more of an airing in the media this year, but I have felt CP has been an advantage to the Dubs for many years, have said so and heard the same amongst many of my friends/aquaintances long before this exceptionally strong current Dublin side came to prominence.
On a related note I have often felt that Kilkenny being in Leinster and playing a big majority of their LSHC in Croker has been an advantage to them during the last decade or so of their dominance, when coming up against Munster opposition in the AI semis or final. They are not at 'home' like the Dubs, and I recall them playing the odd Leinster semi outside of HQ, but they are more familiar with the ground than any hurling team in the country, and that has to be some advantage on AI semi or final day, surely?? As someone else said, its the defacto 'Leinster' ground now and as many double-headers etc as possible seem to be squeezed in there. Not quite right for a 'national' stadium in my opinion.
People are mentioning the likes of dressing rooms and warming up in front of the hill. What about the hill itself? I genuinely have no knowledge of this but who decides who gets tickets for it? You rarely see anything beyond the odd defiant 'away' shirt in it when the Dubs are playing. Do they have dibs on it? Are all tickets for Hill 16 reserved for Dublin fans or do opposition supporters just not bother going there as the perception is 'its Dublin only'?? Genuine question lads, I'm a Rossie so don't get to HQ that often and don't know how it works.
Quote from: Ringfort on April 30, 2014, 10:54:10 PM
The Dubs are saying its only a problem now that they are winning? It might be getting a bit more of an airing in the media this year, but I have felt CP has been an advantage to the Dubs for many years, have said so and heard the same amongst many of my friends/aquaintances long before this exceptionally strong current Dublin side came to prominence.
On a related note I have often felt that Kilkenny being in Leinster and playing a big majority of their LSHC in Croker has been an advantage to them during the last decade or so of their dominance, when coming up against Munster opposition in the AI semis or final. They are not at 'home' like the Dubs, and I recall them playing the odd Leinster semi outside of HQ, but they are more familiar with the ground than any hurling team in the country, and that has to be some advantage on AI semi or final day, surely?? As someone else said, its the defacto 'Leinster' ground now and as many double-headers etc as possible seem to be squeezed in there. Not quite right for a 'national' stadium in my opinion.
People are mentioning the likes of dressing rooms and warming up in front of the hill. What about the hill itself? I genuinely have no knowledge of this but who decides who gets tickets for it? You rarely see anything beyond the odd defiant 'away' shirt in it when the Dubs are playing. Do they have dibs on it? Are all tickets for Hill 16 reserved for Dublin fans or do opposition supporters just not bother going there as the perception is 'its Dublin only'?? Genuine question lads, I'm a Rossie so don't get to HQ that often and don't know how it works.
Lots of Mayo fans on the Hill at last years final. Anyone can apply for a Hill ticket. There is a swap/returns thing where most go to Dublin fans but only cos they seek them as priority. Most other counties have their own areas of preference.
I swapped Canal tickets with a Mayo fan at the last semi- final.
However may as well add this to the list of Dublin advantages. :)
Quote from: Ringfort on April 30, 2014, 10:54:10 PM
The Dubs are saying its only a problem now that they are winning? It might be getting a bit more of an airing in the media this year, but I have felt CP has been an advantage to the Dubs for many years, have said so and heard the same amongst many of my friends/aquaintances long before this exceptionally strong current Dublin side came to prominence.
On a related note I have often felt that Kilkenny being in Leinster and playing a big majority of their LSHC in Croker has been an advantage to them during the last decade or so of their dominance, when coming up against Munster opposition in the AI semis or final. They are not at 'home' like the Dubs, and I recall them playing the odd Leinster semi outside of HQ, but they are more familiar with the ground than any hurling team in the country, and that has to be some advantage on AI semi or final day, surely?? As someone else said, its the defacto 'Leinster' ground now and as many double-headers etc as possible seem to be squeezed in there. Not quite right for a 'national' stadium in my opinion.
People are mentioning the likes of dressing rooms and warming up in front of the hill. What about the hill itself? I genuinely have no knowledge of this but who decides who gets tickets for it? You rarely see anything beyond the odd defiant 'away' shirt in it when the Dubs are playing. Do they have dibs on it? Are all tickets for Hill 16 reserved for Dublin fans or do opposition supporters just not bother going there as the perception is 'its Dublin only'?? Genuine question lads, I'm a Rossie so don't get to HQ that often and don't know how it works.
See below taken from Sean Moran's article in todaysIrish Times. Bottom line is Leinster COunties need to be willing to take the financial hit of moving Dublin out of Croke Park or else leave things as they are. They seem to have decided to leave things as they are but seem determined to moan continuosly about the consequences of their own decision.
Big match
He added that the benefit of observing the same routine for each big match is considerable – to which could be added having the support base a short commute away.
Is the advantage decisive? It wouldn't appear so. In the 20 years since the new Croke Park began to become available, Dublin have a 67 per cent success rate in the stadium from 79 championship matches as opposed to 83 per cent on their travels (including their official county ground, Parnell Park) for 12 fixtures.
The one defeat came against Kerry in the first year of the All-Ireland quarter-finals, a replay in Thurles. In Leinster you have to go back 33 years for the last time Dublin were beaten on the road – by Laois in Tullamore.
It's likely that some of the matches would have had a less resounding scoreline had they been played elsewhere but it's hard to imagine that many outcomes being changed. Dublin have been beaten by 10 different counties, from all four provinces in Croke Park over the past 20 years.
Even so, why don't counties in Leinster press for more fixtures requiring Dublin to travel? The answer is they don't appear to want to. There was a suggestion at Leinster Council that the champions' first match of this summer, against the winners of Wicklow and Laois, be played away from Croke Park. It got just two votes.
The reasons are straightforward enough. Firstly, most players and managers want to play in the stadium and secondly there is the financial consequence of moving Dublin, which means smaller and less rewarding gate receipts. In other words what projects or development grants would you like to cut to facilitate the idea
Apart from tickets for hill16, which prob should be rotated- I would hope in time that the GAA buy the houses /land behind hill16 and finish building the stadium so it is completed the whole way around.
Completing this May help alleviate the problematic breeze somewhat.
So unless someone can back up allegations of teams improving due to greater finances with breakdown of such monies spent -I can't see how anything other than increased numbers of good players due to larger population as being the reason.
People won't be happy until Dublin are never playing in croker until finals or semi finals!
It seems Kilkenny are being dragged into the same accusation!
Next option is only play semi finals and finals in croker.
Not sure if the viability of the stadium could be sustainable financially in doing this.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 04, 2014, 01:47:43 PM
Apart from tickets for hill16, which prob should be rotated- I would hope in time that the GAA buy the houses /land behind hill16 and finish building the stadium so it is completed the whole way around.
The Sligo/Dublin railway line rund there too. ;)
Sensible article at last
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/eamonn-sweeney-dubs-panic-distorts-the-facts-30242012.html
I was on the hill at last years AI final and as a neutral fan I was shocked and disappointed at the response of a lot of Dubs to the number of Mayo fans. They even have their own chant that hill16 is Dublin only. Loads of scumbags who were very intimidating and pushing past Mayo fans and Tyrone muttering get out to f**k etc. I experienced this first hand and it made up my mind who I wanted to win as I was prob supporting Dublin before hand as I know MDMA well.
I'm not saying all Dubs in the hill are like that but those who weren't were happy to go along with it and laugh at the chanting. It so reminds me of soccer style bitterness and shows a lot of Dubs believe they OWN Hill16 and they hate others pushing their way in.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 05, 2014, 10:34:30 AM
I was on the hill at last years AI final and as a neutral fan I was shocked and disappointed at the response of a lot of Dubs to the number of Mayo fans. They even have their own chant that hill16 is Dublin only. Loads of scumbags who were very intimidating and pushing past Mayo fans and Tyrone muttering get out to f**k etc. I experienced this first hand and it made up my mind who I wanted to win as I was prob supporting Dublin before hand as I know MDMA well.
I'm not saying all Dubs in the hill are like that but those who weren't were happy to go along with it and laugh at the chanting. It so reminds me of soccer style bitterness and shows a lot of Dubs believe they OWN Hill16 and they hate others pushing their way in.
Added to this Dublin supporters from the Nally stand side were allowed by crowd control officials to cross barriers over in to the Hill. This extra crowding had to make the Hill uncomfortable for Both Dublin and Mayo supporters who had paid good money for a comfortable view of the game.
Yawwwwnnnn
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on May 05, 2014, 10:05:34 AM
Sensible article at last
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/eamonn-sweeney-dubs-panic-distorts-the-facts-30242012.html
Firstly there is nothing in that article about Dublin's Home advantage for the Business end of the GAA year. Secondly no mention of the vast amounts of money Dublin have received to compete with other sports and improve football in the Capital. Thirdly, to ignore Dublin's underage is just completely blinkered.
Talk of record crowds in Croker in 1961 and Ulster domination are just smoke screen stats for a huge monster the GAA (probably unwittingly) have created.
Dublins Leinster titles at Senior are presently 8 in 9 years. Leinster Minor 3 in the last 5. Leinster under 21 stands at 4 in the last 6. Dublin last year won their first minor since 1984 and have won 3 of the last under 21 AI titles. It's a scary Roll of Honour, especially in the last 5 years.
Now don't get me wrong the foundations of most of these achievements is down to the honest hard voluntary hard work of the genuine Dublin club man. Many who like most counties in the country go years without acknowledgement or reward. But the emergence of money and other factors have risen confidence.
If the present trend continues. We will have a Scottish premier League scenario where you have a multimillion team at the top (Celtic) and a plethora of teams way off the mark hoping to catch the big fish on an off day.
QuoteDublins Leinster titles at Senior are presently 8 in 9 years.
Everyone sees what they want to see. I'd be of the opinion that since the Westmeath/Laois uprisings in the middle of the last decade, the standard of football in Leinster generally has gone down. Does no one remember the articles bemoaning the lack of Leinster participation in the semi finals? The general excuses that Leinster football was no preparation for the All Ireland series?
The falling of standards in Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, Offaly and, most damagingly for the province, Meath, which has facilitated Dublin's dominance has absolutely nothing to do with home advantage, fans on the hill, underage success for Dublin or developmental funds given to Dublin. I said earlier on in this thread, that until other counties emulate Dublin by looking analytically and critically at how they run their affairs, they will always lag behind. That is the true inbuilt disadvantage and given that Dublin only started doing this themselves a few years ago, it proves that this can be done, and quickly, by any County board with a bit of vision. And before the resident gobdaw starts going on about counties being on a pittance, there is a right way and a wrong way to spend a pittance. Any revival for other counties should start within, rather than blaming outside factors.
Don't understand the criticisms of Dublin or the funding they get. Per head of capita are they getting more than many other counties and if so, if counties have a plan they want partly funded, why don't they apply for more money? While the GAA certainly want a strong Dublin, nobody, Dubs included, want a monopoly.
I would strongly disagree with anyone that says you should equally divide money between 32 counties. Wicklow, Kildare, Antrim and Louth are other counties that should be prioritised.
What is going on here? This is just a temporary thing, the rest of Leinster is crap so why should the Dubs play outside Croker, the Dubs get the same money per head of capita, the rest of the country can do the same as the Dubs with no money, what is all this crap? All that stuff has been shown to be nonsense talk already.
Also the wannabe Dub is looking for figures to exactly where the money is going. Does anyone have a link to the Dublin County Boards accounts? Do they release them publicly?
Can't back up your big mouth with any facts?
You are the wee whinging boy that's telling us all that money is buying wins- so please provide proof or evidence into how this is done or otherwise it simple proves you can't and you
Are just a whinging simpleton!
Actually if the country was awash with cash I'd love to build or refurbish stadia around the country where teams play all their games home and away for league and neutral venues for all championship games up to all Ireland final (and possibly semi finals).
The reality is we don't have that kind of cash and lesser counties in Leinster want to play in croker.
Dublin has massive population, so are bound to have more players/better players. In fact they have been a bit of a disgrace for decades for not being able to capitalise on such an advantage.
That's a fact that can't be overlooked.
But please depict how more money goes to making Dublin players better or where exactly this money is invested.
I'd hope that when you publish your findings, we could all show this to our county boards so we can follow suit with same template - and it's not just a massive amount of players!
So- siht or get off the pot!!
I think your village is missing you!
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 05, 2014, 11:53:32 AM
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on May 05, 2014, 10:05:34 AM
Sensible article at last
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/eamonn-sweeney-dubs-panic-distorts-the-facts-30242012.html
Firstly there is nothing in that article about Dublin's Home advantage for the Business end of the GAA year.
what is your alternative solution to this?
Firstly, Leinster counties have had the chance to vote on whether to get Dublin on the road and voted to keep them there. If Dublin go on the road, there is going to be a financial hit to all the counties in the province.
Secondly, since the inception of ''Development Squads'', it has managed to earmark decent footballers, give them a target of playing for Dublin and hence, gives them a reason to choose GAA as their preferred sport. These squads usually only meet up once a week until they go minor, when it is stepped up. There is nothing to stop other counties doing the same thing.
GAA is still the poor relations in many parts of Dublin. The players come from different pockets of the city. There are more GAA clubs in Cork than Dublin.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 01:10:03 PM
Can't back up your big mouth with any facts?
You are the wee whinging boy that's telling us all that money is buying wins- so please provide proof or evidence into how this is done or otherwise it simple proves you can't and you
Are just a whinging simpleton!
Actually if the country was awash with cash I'd love to build or refurbish stadia around the country where teams play all their games home and away for league and neutral venues for all championship games up to all Ireland final (and possibly semi finals).
The reality is we don't have that kind of cash and lesser counties in Leinster want to play in croker.
Dublin has massive population, so are bound to have more players/better players. In fact they have been a bit of a disgrace for decades for not being able to capitalise on such an advantage.
That's a fact that can't be overlooked.
But please depict how more money goes to making Dublin players better or where exactly this money is invested.
I'd hope that when you publish your findings, we could all show this to our county boards so we can follow suit with same template - and it's not just a massive amount of players!
So- siht or get off the pot!!
I think your village is missing you!
The wannabe is up in arms over his beloved Dubs. ;D
We know the Dubs are getting 1.5 million annually on average as it's on the GAA's books, 1 million Sports Council funding - which is taxpayers money, ofcourse granted to them by their hero Bertie and the fund is still going strong. Haven't even touched on the sponsorship money yet.
We know there is a paid Strategic Programme Manager, paid regional development officers, hurling development officers and games promotion officers. Nearly every club have paid officers and coaches.
What I'm looking for is a break down of the money, where else is it going, how much do World or Olympic Champion boxers cost, how much does an extensive list of backroom staff cost, how much is going on every development squad and so on. Do the DCB release their accounts?
Of course other county boards could follow suit, just give them the money. As you even admit, Dublin already have the population advantage, this money is making it almost impossible for them not to be successful. It actually embarrassing that they haven't won more. Why is this not only tolerated but defended by non Dubs?
Quote from: Drummerboy on May 05, 2014, 02:02:39 PM
Firstly, Leinster counties have had the chance to vote on whether to get Dublin on the road and voted to keep them there. If Dublin go on the road, there is going to be a financial hit to all the counties in the province.
Secondly, since the inception of ''Development Squads'', it has managed to earmark decent footballers, give them a target of playing for Dublin and hence, gives them a reason to choose GAA as their preferred sport. These squads usually only meet up once a week until they go minor, when it is stepped up. There is nothing to stop other counties doing the same thing.
GAA is still the poor relations in many parts of Dublin. The players come from different pockets of the city. There are more GAA clubs in Cork than Dublin.
These questions still hasn't been answered. Why don't Dublin pay back all the money if it has nothing to do with their success? Why is the money still being paid to them if they would be successful without it anyway?
From u8 level upwards, in hurling and football, there are nearly 1,500 teams in Dublin. You can forget about the poor excuse of more clubs in Cork.
The only way you'd be happy would be if Dublin didn't play the sport. The money has been used to bring clubs facilities up to the same standard as the rest of the country. I know from travelling around the country that the facilities in most Dublin clubs are behind that of many clubs around the country. Your argument about paid coaches, many of whom are from the country, doesn't wash. The clubs have to provide the bulk of the wages for GPOs. Dublin have become successful because of the efforts of ordinary club members who have got themselves organised to an extent that they are producing good sportspeople. At the moment there are coaches up and down the country trying to do the same thing. And eventually somebody will knock Dublin off the throne. Money doesn't make a good player.
Quote from: Drummerboy on May 05, 2014, 02:40:47 PM
The only way you'd be happy would be if Dublin didn't play the sport. The money has been used to bring clubs facilities up to the same standard as the rest of the country. I know from travelling around the country that the facilities in most Dublin clubs are behind that of many clubs around the country. Your argument about paid coaches, many of whom are from the country, doesn't wash. The clubs have to provide the bulk of the wages for GPOs. Dublin have become successful because of the efforts of ordinary club members who have got themselves organised to an extent that they are producing good sportspeople. At the moment there are coaches up and down the country trying to do the same thing. And eventually somebody will knock Dublin off the throne. Money doesn't make a good player.
Dublin has to be split, it's the only solution. The money has not been used to bring club facilities up to standard, that's a lie. Other money has gone into that and to say club facilties in Dublin are worse than that around the country is a bit of a joke.
How does the argument of paid coaches not wash? What are you on about? Paid, qualified coaches around every club to train trainers to coach teams at a high standard is a huge advantage, how could it not be?
Some clubs have to pay the bulk of the wages for their
extra GPOs, not all GPOs. About the only true thing you've said there is that coaches around the country are trying to produce good sportspeople, the difference is they barely have any money.
So to ask the questions again. Why don't Dublin pay back all the money if it has nothing to do with their success? Why is the money still being paid to them if they would be successful without it anyway?
You are talking tripe, tripe as usual. Most clubs only have one GPO, which they have to contribute to the cost. You are deluded by your bitterness of all things Dublin
If you really want change, why not amalgamate the smaller counties. Dublin are doing fine as we are, thank you.
Quote from: Dont Matter on May 05, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: Drummerboy on May 05, 2014, 02:40:47 PM
The only way you'd be happy would be if Dublin didn't play the sport. The money has been used to bring clubs facilities up to the same standard as the rest of the country. I know from travelling around the country that the facilities in most Dublin clubs are behind that of many clubs around the country. Your argument about paid coaches, many of whom are from the country, doesn't wash. The clubs have to provide the bulk of the wages for GPOs. Dublin have become successful because of the efforts of ordinary club members who have got themselves organised to an extent that they are producing good sportspeople. At the moment there are coaches up and down the country trying to do the same thing. And eventually somebody will knock Dublin off the throne. Money doesn't make a good player.
Dublin has to be split, it's the only solution. The money has not been used to bring club facilities up to standard, that's a lie. Other money has gone into that and to say club facilties in Dublin are worse than that around the country is a bit of a joke.
How does the argument of paid coaches not wash? What are you on about? Paid, qualified coaches around every club to train trainers to coach teams at a high standard is a huge advantage, how could it not be?
Some clubs have to pay the bulk of the wages for their extra GPOs, not all GPOs. About the only true thing you've said there is that coaches around the country are trying to produce good sportspeople, the difference is they barely have any money.
So to ask the questions again. Why don't Dublin pay back all the money if it has nothing to do with their success? Why is the money still being paid to them if they would be successful without it anyway?
In fairness this money cannot be paid back as it was not a loan. Eaten bread is soon forgotten.
The reality is a huge project called the redevelopment of Croke Park had to be financed. To finance this it had to be filled year in year out for 5 to 6 months of the year. Dublin were the only county that could do this consistently if they had a good team. So the GAA spent money on Dublin. Hurling was seen as a second cash cow in the making. Anyway we are heading toward a Scottish premier League scenario where you have a multimillion team at the top (Celtic) and a plethora of teams way off the mark hoping to catch the big fish on an off day.
There will be no change. Really, it's to late. These successful structures have been set up and you can't pull the rug out from under them. The Turkey in Leinster will continue to vote for games in Croke Park to benefit their pittance short term gain. The GAA will remain happy to keep Croke park busy over the summer. Dublin will continue to dominate and a core of the Media who are all based in Dublin will be happy. Meanwhile Leinster will continue to become a shambles. Connacht and Munster will continue to be the two horse races they've always been, with the same Turkeys in Munster voting for seeding in their Championship. Ulster with the help of the Queens money might have a small chance (hard luck Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan).
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 05, 2014, 04:13:21 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on May 05, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: Drummerboy on May 05, 2014, 02:40:47 PM
The only way you'd be happy would be if Dublin didn't play the sport. The money has been used to bring clubs facilities up to the same standard as the rest of the country. I know from travelling around the country that the facilities in most Dublin clubs are behind that of many clubs around the country. Your argument about paid coaches, many of whom are from the country, doesn't wash. The clubs have to provide the bulk of the wages for GPOs. Dublin have become successful because of the efforts of ordinary club members who have got themselves organised to an extent that they are producing good sportspeople. At the moment there are coaches up and down the country trying to do the same thing. And eventually somebody will knock Dublin off the throne. Money doesn't make a good player.
Dublin has to be split, it's the only solution. The money has not been used to bring club facilities up to standard, that's a lie. Other money has gone into that and to say club facilties in Dublin are worse than that around the country is a bit of a joke.
How does the argument of paid coaches not wash? What are you on about? Paid, qualified coaches around every club to train trainers to coach teams at a high standard is a huge advantage, how could it not be?
Some clubs have to pay the bulk of the wages for their extra GPOs, not all GPOs. About the only true thing you've said there is that coaches around the country are trying to produce good sportspeople, the difference is they barely have any money.
So to ask the questions again. Why don't Dublin pay back all the money if it has nothing to do with their success? Why is the money still being paid to them if they would be successful without it anyway?
In fairness this money cannot be paid back as it was not a loan. Eaten bread is soon forgotten.
The reality is a huge project called the redevelopment of Croke Park had to be financed. To finance this it had to be filled year in year out for 5 to 6 months of the year. Dublin were the only county that could do this consistently if they had a good team. So the GAA spent money on Dublin. Hurling was seen as a second cash cow in the making. Anyway we are heading toward a Scottish premier League scenario where you have a multimillion team at the top (Celtic) and a plethora of teams way off the mark hoping to catch the big fish on an off day.
There will be no change. Really, it's to late. These successful structures have been set up and you can't pull the rug out from under them. The Turkey in Leinster will continue to vote for games in Croke Park to benefit their pittance short term gain. The GAA will remain happy to keep Croke park busy over the summer. Dublin will continue to dominate and a core of the Media who are all based in Dublin will be happy. Meanwhile Leinster will continue to become a shambles. Connacht and Munster will continue to be the two horse races they've always been, with the same Turkeys in Munster voting for seeding in their Championship. Ulster with the help of the Queens money might have a small chance (hard luck Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan).
Yeah £120m is only a small little taste and might give someone a small leg up..
Quote from: Dont Matter on May 05, 2014, 02:03:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 01:10:03 PM
Can't back up your big mouth with any facts?
You are the wee whinging boy that's telling us all that money is buying wins- so please provide proof or evidence into how this is done or otherwise it simple proves you can't and you
Are just a whinging simpleton!
Actually if the country was awash with cash I'd love to build or refurbish stadia around the country where teams play all their games home and away for league and neutral venues for all championship games up to all Ireland final (and possibly semi finals).
The reality is we don't have that kind of cash and lesser counties in Leinster want to play in croker.
Dublin has massive population, so are bound to have more players/better players. In fact they have been a bit of a disgrace for decades for not being able to capitalise on such an advantage.
That's a fact that can't be overlooked.
But please depict how more money goes to making Dublin players better or where exactly this money is invested.
I'd hope that when you publish your findings, we could all show this to our county boards so we can follow suit with same template - and it's not just a massive amount of players!
So- siht or get off the pot!!
I think your village is missing you!
The wannabe is up in arms over his beloved Dubs. ;D
We know the Dubs are getting 1.5 million annually on average as it's on the GAA's books, 1 million Sports Council funding - which is taxpayers money, ofcourse granted to them by their hero Bertie and the fund is still going strong. Haven't even touched on the sponsorship money yet.
We know there is a paid Strategic Programme Manager, paid regional development officers, hurling development officers and games promotion officers. Nearly every club have paid officers and coaches.
What I'm looking for is a break down of the money, where else is it going, how much do World or Olympic Champion boxers cost, how much does an extensive list of backroom staff cost, how much is going on every development squad and so on. Do the DCB release their accounts?
Of course other county boards could follow suit, just give them the money. As you even admit, Dublin already have the population advantage, this money is making it almost impossible for them not to be successful. It actually embarrassing that they haven't won more. Why is this not only tolerated but defended by non Dubs?
You named yourself very aptly!!
Your jibes don't matter!
You have actually re-iterated a couple of things I've already said that Dublin are a bit of a disgrace and their population means they should be more successful than other counties!
Your whinges don't stack up. You say that Dublin have 'extra' coaches etc.
Of course they do - they have a bigger playing population!!
The clubs I've been involved with in four counties all have coaches - same number of coaches in each .... One ! The Dublin club fields twice as many teams as the smallest club I was involved with.
I understand you dislike Dublin, and I'd fear their dominance - if that came to pass then the association would have to vote to split Dublin into two.
But your whinges are diatribes based on jealousy and hatred rather than any actual knowledge and fact.
I'd be happy and prepared to listen to you if you actually did some fact finding and unearthed info that in any way backed up your stories.
Otherwise you are just looking like a foolish wee fat assed whinger who would rather moan than get off his hole to do something!
Furthermore I'm a GAA man and support my county when I can!
Dublin would be lucky to have me!
You are a wee boy that highlights the horrible IRish traits of begrudgery and hypocrisy!
I have seen no evidence from you to back up your moans that apart from more funding that equates to more players ( which I'd have thought is fair) Dublin are only getting their share later than most.
I know other counties got more funding than Dublin starting in the 90's - and the Gaa hired two coaches in 1998 I think it was - Colm Brady Meath - football and Lester Ryan Kilkenny - hurling- and they spent their time throughout Leinster and not Dublin - until the GAA started hiring more coaches, then these were deployed equally throughout the country- Dublin getting same or less than others.
If what you were guessing at was true then I'd also move to make things fairer financially, but you can't and as far as I know they are not. I personally try to be fair about most things.
Just because this isn't what you want to hear doesn't give rise for you to whinge more about me and attempt to throw mud, that's not what proper Gaels do - unless you are some kind of t**ker from Laois or some place who is simply out for themselves.
I await your reply with evidence to back up your assertions!
"The reality is we don't have that kind of cash and lesser counties in Leinster want to play in croker."
This is the problem and how bloody stupid can you get wanting to play the dubs in croker instead of navan, Wexford or portlaoise . Ffs this really does get to me.
Quote from: Drummerboy on May 05, 2014, 03:51:32 PM
You are talking tripe, tripe as usual. Most clubs only have one GPO, which they have to contribute to the cost. You are deluded by your bitterness of all things Dublin
If you really want change, why not amalgamate the smaller counties. Dublin are doing fine as we are, thank you.
Of course Dublin are doing fine, they've been bought tons of Provincial and All Ireland titles. It's up to the rest of the country to make Gaelic Games fair again.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 05, 2014, 04:13:21 PM
In fairness this money cannot be paid back as it was not a loan. Eaten bread is soon forgotten.
The reality is a huge project called the redevelopment of Croke Park had to be financed. To finance this it had to be filled year in year out for 5 to 6 months of the year. Dublin were the only county that could do this consistently if they had a good team. So the GAA spent money on Dublin. Hurling was seen as a second cash cow in the making. Anyway we are heading toward a Scottish premier League scenario where you have a multimillion team at the top (Celtic) and a plethora of teams way off the mark hoping to catch the big fish on an off day.
There will be no change. Really, it's to late. These successful structures have been set up and you can't pull the rug out from under them. The Turkey in Leinster will continue to vote for games in Croke Park to benefit their pittance short term gain. The GAA will remain happy to keep Croke park busy over the summer. Dublin will continue to dominate and a core of the Media who are all based in Dublin will be happy. Meanwhile Leinster will continue to become a shambles. Connacht and Munster will continue to be the two horse races they've always been, with the same Turkeys in Munster voting for seeding in their Championship. Ulster with the help of the Queens money might have a small chance (hard luck Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan).
If the situation continues then Gaelic Games will be in ruins, short term gain for long term pain. It has to be sorted soon.
Quote from: heffo on May 05, 2014, 04:19:12 PM
Yeah £120m is only a small little taste and might give someone a small leg up..
If Dublin get money that's ok, if any other county gets money it's not ok. That's the view from this Dub anyway.
Don't mind don't matter
He puts forward the same arguments and every time he's challenged he resorts to base insults. Not even worth reading his posts,
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:23:11 PM
You named yourself very aptly!!
Your jibes don't matter!
You have actually re-iterated a couple of things I've already said that Dublin are a bit of a disgrace and their population means they should be more successful than other counties!
Your whinges don't stack up. You say that Dublin have 'extra' coaches etc.
Of course they do - they have a bigger playing population!!
The clubs I've been involved with in four counties all have coaches - same number of coaches in each .... One ! The Dublin club fields twice as many teams as the smallest club I was involved with.
I understand you dislike Dublin, and I'd fear their dominance - if that came to pass then the association would have to vote to split Dublin into two.
But your whinges are diatribes based on jealousy and hatred rather than any actual knowledge and fact.
I'd be happy and prepared to listen to you if you actually did some fact finding and unearthed info that in any way backed up your stories.
Otherwise you are just looking like a foolish wee fat assed whinger who would rather moan than get off his hole to do something!
Furthermore I'm a GAA man and support my county when I can!
Dublin would be lucky to have me!
You are a wee boy that highlights the horrible IRish traits of begrudgery and hypocrisy!
I have seen no evidence from you to back up your moans that apart from more funding that equates to more players ( which I'd have thought is fair) Dublin are only getting their share later than most.
I know other counties got more funding than Dublin starting in the 90's - and the Gaa hired two coaches in 1998 I think it was - Colm Brady Meath - football and Lester Ryan Kilkenny - hurling- and they spent their time throughout Leinster and not Dublin - until the GAA started hiring more coaches, then these were deployed equally throughout the country- Dublin getting same or less than others.
If what you were guessing at was true then I'd also move to make things fairer financially, but you can't and as far as I know they are not. I personally try to be fair about most things.
Just because this isn't what you want to hear doesn't give rise for you to whinge more about me and attempt to throw mud, that's not what proper Gaels do - unless you are some kind of t**ker from Laois or some place who is simply out for themselves.
I await your reply with evidence to back up your assertions!
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/laughing-smiley-face.gif)
The wannabe Dub is angry, how dare anyone try to tackle his new counties cheating. They say if you're using insults then you've lost the argument, well this fella has obviously been battered.
I didn't say Dublin have extra coaches, I said they have paid coaches for every club who are fully qualified. How many counties have them? Being opposed to cheating isn't jealousy, I have backed up my claims. Go look at the GAA's accounts if you don't believe me.
I understand your feelings are hurt because you've been left looking foolish in this thread. The wannabe Dub with all his previous clubs has been made a show of, but will you try to deal with the topic at hand in a respectful manner? I know you're just trying to imitate your new county men and women but still. ;D
Quote from: Johnnybegood on May 05, 2014, 06:00:43 PM
Don't mind don't matter
He puts forward the same arguments and every time he's challenged he resorts to base insults. Not even worth reading his posts,
I'm never challenged, not one Dub has gone near any of the points I make. I don't blame them though, they'd be wasting their time, Dublin's cheating is indefensible.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 05, 2014, 04:13:21 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on May 05, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: Drummerboy on May 05, 2014, 02:40:47 PM
The only way you'd be happy would be if Dublin didn't play the sport. The money has been used to bring clubs facilities up to the same standard as the rest of the country. I know from travelling around the country that the facilities in most Dublin clubs are behind that of many clubs around the country. Your argument about paid coaches, many of whom are from the country, doesn't wash. The clubs have to provide the bulk of the wages for GPOs. Dublin have become successful because of the efforts of ordinary club members who have got themselves organised to an extent that they are producing good sportspeople. At the moment there are coaches up and down the country trying to do the same thing. And eventually somebody will knock Dublin off the throne. Money doesn't make a good player.
Dublin has to be split, it's the only solution. The money has not been used to bring club facilities up to standard, that's a lie. Other money has gone into that and to say club facilties in Dublin are worse than that around the country is a bit of a joke.
How does the argument of paid coaches not wash? What are you on about? Paid, qualified coaches around every club to train trainers to coach teams at a high standard is a huge advantage, how could it not be?
Some clubs have to pay the bulk of the wages for their extra GPOs, not all GPOs. About the only true thing you've said there is that coaches around the country are trying to produce good sportspeople, the difference is they barely have any money.
So to ask the questions again. Why don't Dublin pay back all the money if it has nothing to do with their success? Why is the money still being paid to them if they would be successful without it anyway?
In fairness this money cannot be paid back as it was not a loan. Eaten bread is soon forgotten.
The reality is a huge project called the redevelopment of Croke Park had to be financed. To finance this it had to be filled year in year out for 5 to 6 months of the year. Dublin were the only county that could do this consistently if they had a good team. So the GAA spent money on Dublin. Hurling was seen as a second cash cow in the making. Anyway we are heading toward a Scottish premier League scenario where you have a multimillion team at the top (Celtic) and a plethora of teams way off the mark hoping to catch the big fish on an off day.
There will be no change. Really, it's to late. These successful structures have been set up and you can't pull the rug out from under them. The Turkey in Leinster will continue to vote for games in Croke Park to benefit their pittance short term gain. The GAA will remain happy to keep Croke park busy over the summer. Dublin will continue to dominate and a core of the Media who are all based in Dublin will be happy. Meanwhile Leinster will continue to become a shambles. Connacht and Munster will continue to be the two horse races they've always been, with the same Turkeys in Munster voting for seeding in their Championship. Ulster with the help of the Queens money might have a small chance (hard luck Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan).
This is the typical doomsday scenario put forward by the Billy Keane's, Marting Breheny's and Colm Keyes of the world. It won't happen.
After next year we'll be lucky to win an u21 leinster title by 2019 again. Carlow beat our u21's in hurling last year and Longford beat our u21's.
Its unfactual tripe. When kilkenny won 4 in a row nobody cared. When Kerry and Tyrone shared 6 all irelands between them in 6 years. Nobody cared.
Its the small man syndrome. As regards the other smaller counties no-one gave a shite about them either when kerry and tyrone were beating all round them.
Quote from: Dont Matter on May 05, 2014, 06:07:01 PM
Quote from: Johnnybegood on May 05, 2014, 06:00:43 PM
Don't mind don't matter
He puts forward the same arguments and every time he's challenged he resorts to base insults. Not even worth reading his posts,
I'm never challenged, not one Dub has gone near any of the points I make. I don't blame them though, they'd be wasting their time, Dublin's cheating is indefensible.
I have on several occasions and you've refused to engage.
Why didn't the £120M given to Ulster counties by the British Exchequer for sports development mean an upsurge in Ulster success?
I see the Dublin Minor ladies had a 7-12 to 0-2 win over Westmeath today in Clane (must've been all the money & home advantage) oh wait..
Quote from: heffo on May 05, 2014, 06:38:31 PM
I have on several occasions and you've refused to engage.
Why didn't the £120M given to Ulster counties by the British Exchequer for sports development mean an upsurge in Ulster success?
I see the Dublin Minor ladies had a 7-12 to 0-2 win over Westmeath today in Clane (must've been all the money & home advantage) oh wait..
You haven't tackled any points I've made, all you've done is do something similar to what you just did there. Deflect, discuss anything else but Dublin's cheating.
Are Ulster one county now?
Teams win matches all the time, usually it's not because of home advantage or millions of euro. Dublin winning all their recent underage titles
is because of money and the senior success
is because of money and home advantage.
Quote from: Dont Matter on May 05, 2014, 06:51:10 PM
Quote from: heffo on May 05, 2014, 06:38:31 PM
I have on several occasions and you've refused to engage.
Why didn't the £120M given to Ulster counties by the British Exchequer for sports development mean an upsurge in Ulster success?
I see the Dublin Minor ladies had a 7-12 to 0-2 win over Westmeath today in Clane (must've been all the money & home advantage) oh wait..
You haven't tackled any points I've made, all you've done is do something similar to what you just did there. Deflect, discuss anything else but Dublin's cheating.
Are Ulster one county now?
Teams win matches all the time, usually it's not because of home advantage or millions of euro. Dublin winning all their recent underage titles is because of money and the senior success is because of money and home advantage.
Please demonstrate how primary school level coaching - typically U8-10 which commences in 2005 had a direct causal effect on Dublin's 2010 U21 win.
Please divide £120m (GBP) by 8 and do similar sums.
Please advise the venue of the three recent U21 Football final wins and how many times they played at home v playing away enroute to those titles.
Quote from: heffo on May 05, 2014, 06:54:24 PM
Please demonstrate how primary school level coaching - typically U8-10 which commences in 2005 had a direct causal effect on Dublin's 2010 U21 win.
Please divide £120m (GBP) by 8 and do similar sums.
Please advise the venue of the three recent U21 Football final wins and how many times they played at home v playing away enroute to those titles.
They didn't just start at u8 and leave any older kids out of it. Serious money and coaching went into that u21 team.
Divide it by 9 you mean? Start a new thread on it.
Read what I said, underage titles were won because of money, senior titles were won because of money and home advantage.
Quote from: Dont Matter on May 05, 2014, 07:03:14 PM
Quote from: heffo on May 05, 2014, 06:54:24 PM
Please demonstrate how primary school level coaching - typically U8-10 which commences in 2005 had a direct causal effect on Dublin's 2010 U21 win.
Please divide £120m (GBP) by 8 and do similar sums.
Please advise the venue of the three recent U21 Football final wins and how many times they played at home v playing away enroute to those titles.
They didn't just start at u8 and leave any older kids out of it. Serious money and coaching went into that u21 team.
Divide it by 9 you mean? Start a new thread on it.
Read what I said, underage titles were won because of money, senior titles were won because of money and home advantage.
Bluffer. We've read what you said and you haven't answered anything. Bluffer
There I said it again. Bluffer
Quote from: INDIANA on May 05, 2014, 07:05:11 PM
Bluffer. We've read what you said and you haven't answered anything. Bluffer
There I said it again. Bluffer
I've answered everything got to do with the subject at hand, that being Dublin's cheating. The Dubs want to change the subject, not gonna happen. ;D
Quote from: Dont Matter on May 05, 2014, 07:11:27 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 05, 2014, 07:05:11 PM
Bluffer. We've read what you said and you haven't answered anything. Bluffer
There I said it again. Bluffer
I've answered everything got to do with the subject at hand, that being Dublin's cheating. The Dubs want to change the subject, not gonna happen. ;D
Until you answer my questions which I've asked you continually, your trolling will be treated as such.
Arming yourself with actual facts and information and not stuff you make up might no no harm either if you ever do choose to engage and just troll.
Quote from: heffo on May 05, 2014, 07:16:29 PM
Until you answer my questions which I've asked you continually, your trolling will be treated as such.
Arming yourself with actual facts and information and not stuff you make up might no no harm either if you ever do choose to engage and just troll.
As usual, the Dubs can't deal with the topic at hand, try to derail and then go running when that fails. ;D
Quote from: Dont Matter on May 05, 2014, 06:03:49 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 05, 2014, 04:23:11 PM
You named yourself very aptly!!
Your jibes don't matter!
You have actually re-iterated a couple of things I've already said that Dublin are a bit of a disgrace and their population means they should be more successful than other counties!
Your whinges don't stack up. You say that Dublin have 'extra' coaches etc.
Of course they do - they have a bigger playing population!!
The clubs I've been involved with in four counties all have coaches - same number of coaches in each .... One ! The Dublin club fields twice as many teams as the smallest club I was involved with.
I understand you dislike Dublin, and I'd fear their dominance - if that came to pass then the association would have to vote to split Dublin into two.
But your whinges are diatribes based on jealousy and hatred rather than any actual knowledge and fact.
I'd be happy and prepared to listen to you if you actually did some fact finding and unearthed info that in any way backed up your stories.
Otherwise you are just looking like a foolish wee fat assed whinger who would rather moan than get off his hole to do something!
Furthermore I'm a GAA man and support my county when I can!
Dublin would be lucky to have me!
You are a wee boy that highlights the horrible IRish traits of begrudgery and hypocrisy!
I have seen no evidence from you to back up your moans that apart from more funding that equates to more players ( which I'd have thought is fair) Dublin are only getting their share later than most.
I know other counties got more funding than Dublin starting in the 90's - and the Gaa hired two coaches in 1998 I think it was - Colm Brady Meath - football and Lester Ryan Kilkenny - hurling- and they spent their time throughout Leinster and not Dublin - until the GAA started hiring more coaches, then these were deployed equally throughout the country- Dublin getting same or less than others.
If what you were guessing at was true then I'd also move to make things fairer financially, but you can't and as far as I know they are not. I personally try to be fair about most things.
Just because this isn't what you want to hear doesn't give rise for you to whinge more about me and attempt to throw mud, that's not what proper Gaels do - unless you are some kind of t**ker from Laois or some place who is simply out for themselves.
I await your reply with evidence to back up your assertions!
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/laughing-smiley-face.gif)
The wannabe Dub is angry, how dare anyone try to tackle his new counties cheating. They say if you're using insults then you've lost the argument, well this fella has obviously been battered.
I didn't say Dublin have extra coaches, I said they have paid coaches for every club who are fully qualified. How many counties have them? Being opposed to cheating isn't jealousy, I have backed up my claims. Go look at the GAA's accounts if you don't believe me.
I understand your feelings are hurt because you've been left looking foolish in this thread. The wannabe Dub with all his previous clubs has been made a show of, but will you try to deal with the topic at hand in a respectful manner? I know you're just trying to imitate your new county men and women but still. ;D
if you are referring to me- then im far from angry - im amused/bemused at your idiotic ramblings.
you can attempt to insult away -as you say its a sure sign you have lost any 'discussion'.
not that you ever actually indulged in one- but resorted to childish insults and meaningless wittering.
what is your last post about- it makes no sense whatsoever ....quelle surprise. you seem to change your point like the wind that comes out of you. fully qualified what?
Don't know about the dubs, but im still waiting for you to back up your claims with any kind of info.
you are really embarrassing yourself and looking extremely foolish in this thread, your jealousy is very sad - maybe you are hoping people take pity on you for being bitter little man (?)
so we are still waiting for you to come up with something/anything to back up your witterings!!
Questions;
Do Dublin fans see Croke Park as their home? Most definitely yes, sure where else could be their home?
Do Dublin gain an advantage over the Winter having home league games in Croke Park rather than Parnell Park? This has to be a yes, only natural.
Do Dublin gain an advantage playing League semi finals and finals in Croke Park?This has to be a yes, only natural.
Do Dublin gain an advantage playing all their Championship games in Croke Park? This has to be a yes, only natural.
Have Dublin became to big for the other teams in Leinster? This has to be a yes. Stats prove it, bar a blip in 2010.
Is it possible for the other counties to compete with Dublin now that they have sorted out their structures and harnessed their population? Hard to see anyone compete with them.
Is Dublin's underage success a fluke? Not by the looks of it. Good Structures, training facilities and good coaches brought in.
Is Dublin's Senior success a fluke? No! allot of ground work done, Big back up team and good youth structure coming through.
Do they see the Hill as their Terrace an theirs only or open to all fans? Most definitely yes, at last years AI allot were really put out at the amount of away fans in the Hill.
Are Dublin realy getting to much money? Now that is the question? They sure as hell could not be getting the same amount as Leitrim! As you cannot just divide the pot by 32!
As for the doomsday scenario. GAA survived the complete dominance of the Great Kerry Team of the 70's and 80's. Two late goals stopped that team from winning 9 in a row titles. That Kerry team changed the ethics of what was needed to win an AI title. Dublin County probably have done the same. They have turned things that should have been an advantage to them in the past into being an advantage to them in the future. Most of these things are so long written in stone that many GAA fans have become blinded to these advantages being advantages. And to change some of them would (going by this board alone) take allot of pushing and shoving.
Anyway back to Kerry example, they had a great group. But relatively no one come through. This Dublin team have the opposite! They could create a serious legacy and force a serious change in the set up of the game (just like that Kerry team did. But in a different way).
I think Don't matters accusations are brushed aside a little to easily. I'd have a few questions of my own on the finances from croke park...
1- How is money divided out to all counties. Is it proportional to amount of members, the state of development in the counties or just divide by 32.
2- A table of what counties got in 2014 & 2013 would be very interesting.
3- Don't Matter says each Dublin club has a full time paid coach on their books. Is this true? How is this funded? Certainly no such role exists in the 40 odd clubs in Cavan.
4- One thing that is for sure, Dublin get a serious advantage to play almost every game in croke park. There are probably solid financial reasons for it but it is still an advantage. Image if Tyrone had every game in Omagh, Mayo might even with an All Ireland if every game was in McHale park.
5- The crux is whether Dublin are getting disproportionate support from HQ. Most clubs in the country raised their own money through Lottos, raffles etc and built their facilities that way. Ive read a few Dublin posters imply they have a god given right to get such funding from Croke park. Could it be the GAA are putting more money into Dublin than they should in order to win over the hearts and minds of young Dubs? That might be a noble aspiration but it could also be deemed a extremely unfair advantage to Dublin.
I don't have the answers, but I'd love to hear opinions on both sides versus my questions.
Mayo have won 4 of the last 5 Connacht championships. Are they too big for the other Connacht counties?
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 05, 2014, 09:09:13 PM
Mayo have won 4 of the last 5 Connacht championships. Are they too big for the other Connacht counties?
Yes, At the moment! But Mayo's underage success has been limited over the same period and there will be a big lull when this groups lifespan comes to an end!
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 05, 2014, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 05, 2014, 09:09:13 PM
Mayo have won 4 of the last 5 Connacht championships. Are they too big for the other Connacht counties?
Yes, At the moment! But Mayo's underage success has been limited over the same period and there will be a big lull hen this group come to an end!
It would be nice if they won something for all the success they have had.
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2014, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 05, 2014, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 05, 2014, 09:09:13 PM
Mayo have won 4 of the last 5 Connacht championships. Are they too big for the other Connacht counties?
Yes, At the moment! But Mayo's underage success has been limited over the same period and there will be a big lull hen this group come to an end!
It would be nice if they won something for all the success they have had.
I second that emotion!
Quote from: Itchy on May 05, 2014, 09:06:44 PM
I think Don't matters accusations are brushed aside a little to easily. I'd have a few questions of my own on the finances from croke park...
1- How is money divided out to all counties. Is it proportional to amount of members, the state of development in the counties or just divide by 32.
2- A table of what counties got in 2014 & 2013 would be very interesting.
3- Don't Matter says each Dublin club has a full time paid coach on their books. Is this true? How is this funded? Certainly no such role exists in the 40 odd clubs in Cavan.
4- One thing that is for sure, Dublin get a serious advantage to play almost every game in croke park. There are probably solid financial reasons for it but it is still an advantage. Image if Tyrone had every game in Omagh, Mayo might even with an All Ireland if every game was in McHale park.
5- The crux is whether Dublin are getting disproportionate support from HQ. Most clubs in the country raised their own money through Lottos, raffles etc and built their facilities that way. Ive read a few Dublin posters imply they have a god given right to get such funding from Croke park. Could it be the GAA are putting more money into Dublin than they should in order to win over the hearts and minds of young Dubs? That might be a noble aspiration but it could also be deemed a extremely unfair advantage to Dublin.
I don't have the answers, but I'd love to hear opinions on both sides versus my questions.
Dublin's funding is from the Irish sports council - they applied under the same scheme available to every other county and indeed as other counties have finally starting applying successfully. Funding is based on the number of schools pro-rata.
There are two types of funding - Capital funding and development funding.
Dont Matter is full of sh*t - there isn't a full time coach in every club in Dublin. A large number have coaches, some of them are full time, some are part time and some have none. 50% of this cost if funded from the above and 50% from the club themselves.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 05, 2014, 08:49:39 PM
Questions;
Do Dublin fans see Croke Park as their home? Most definitely yes, sure where else could be their home?
Do Dublin gain an advantage over the Winter having home league games in Croke Park rather than Parnell Park? This has to be a yes, only natural.
Do Dublin gain an advantage playing League semi finals and finals in Croke Park?This has to be a yes, only natural.
Do Dublin gain an advantage playing all their Championship games in Croke Park? This has to be a yes, only natural.
Have Dublin became to big for the other teams in Leinster? This has to be a yes. Stats prove it, bar a blip in 2010.
Is it possible for the other counties to compete with Dublin now that they have sorted out their structures and harnessed their population? Hard to see anyone compete with them.
Is Dublin's underage success a fluke? Not by the looks of it. Good Structures, training facilities and good coaches brought in.
Is Dublin's Senior success a fluke? No! allot of ground work done, Big back up team and good youth structure coming through.
Do they see the Hill as their Terrace an theirs only or open to all fans? Most definitely yes, at last years AI allot were really put out at the amount of away fans in the Hill.
Are Dublin realy getting to much money? Now that is the question? They sure as hell could not be getting the same amount as Leitrim! As you cannot just divide the pot by 32!
As for the doomsday scenario. GAA survived the complete dominance of the Great Kerry Team of the 70's and 80's. Two late goals stopped that team from winning 9 in a row titles. That Kerry team changed the ethics of what was needed to win an AI title. Dublin County probably have done the same. They have turned things that should have been an advantage to them in the past into being an advantage to them in the future. Most of these things are so long written in stone that many GAA fans have become blinded to these advantages being advantages. And to change some of them would (going by this board alone) take allot of pushing and shoving.
Anyway back to Kerry example, they had a great group. But relatively no one come through. This Dublin team have the opposite! They could create a serious legacy and force a serious change in the set up of the game (just like that Kerry team did. But in a different way).
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/dublin-answer-6m-question-26759948.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/dublin-answer-6m-question-26759948.html)
Quote from: Itchy on May 05, 2014, 09:06:44 PM
I think Don't matters accusations are brushed aside a little to easily. I'd have a few questions of my own on the finances from croke park...
1- How is money divided out to all counties. Is it proportional to amount of members, the state of development in the counties or just divide by 32.
2- A table of what counties got in 2014 & 2013 would be very interesting.
3- Don't Matter says each Dublin club has a full time paid coach on their books. Is this true? How is this funded? Certainly no such role exists in the 40 odd clubs in Cavan.
4- One thing that is for sure, Dublin get a serious advantage to play almost every game in croke park. There are probably solid financial reasons for it but it is still an advantage. Image if Tyrone had every game in Omagh, Mayo might even with an All Ireland if every game was in McHale park.
5- The crux is whether Dublin are getting disproportionate support from HQ. Most clubs in the country raised their own money through Lottos, raffles etc and built their facilities that way. Ive read a few Dublin posters imply they have a god given right to get such funding from Croke park. Could it be the GAA are putting more money into Dublin than they should in order to win over the hearts and minds of young Dubs? That might be a noble aspiration but it could also be deemed a extremely unfair advantage to Dublin.
I don't have the answers, but I'd love to hear opinions on both sides versus my questions.
There are 92 clubs in Dublin and 35 GPO's. Only a semi retarded numpty like Don't Matter could equate this to one full time coach per club. The clubs themselves pay 50% of their GPO's wages while the DCB cover the rest. Always bear in mind when reading Don't Matter posts that he makes stuff up. Lots of stuff.
The remaining Leinster counties can vote to move Dublin out of Croke Park for Leinster CHampionship games anytime they see fit. Laois, Westmeath, Wexford etc have have so far decided not to do so because it would hut them financially. This hpweber doesn't stop them moaning hypocrtically about a situation of their own making.
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on May 06, 2014, 10:38:51 AM
Quote from: Itchy on May 05, 2014, 09:06:44 PM
I think Don't matters accusations are brushed aside a little to easily. I'd have a few questions of my own on the finances from croke park...
1- How is money divided out to all counties. Is it proportional to amount of members, the state of development in the counties or just divide by 32.
2- A table of what counties got in 2014 & 2013 would be very interesting.
3- Don't Matter says each Dublin club has a full time paid coach on their books. Is this true? How is this funded? Certainly no such role exists in the 40 odd clubs in Cavan.
4- One thing that is for sure, Dublin get a serious advantage to play almost every game in croke park. There are probably solid financial reasons for it but it is still an advantage. Image if Tyrone had every game in Omagh, Mayo might even with an All Ireland if every game was in McHale park.
5- The crux is whether Dublin are getting disproportionate support from HQ. Most clubs in the country raised their own money through Lottos, raffles etc and built their facilities that way. Ive read a few Dublin posters imply they have a god given right to get such funding from Croke park. Could it be the GAA are putting more money into Dublin than they should in order to win over the hearts and minds of young Dubs? That might be a noble aspiration but it could also be deemed a extremely unfair advantage to Dublin.
I don't have the answers, but I'd love to hear opinions on both sides versus my questions.
There are 92 clubs in Dublin and 35 GPO's. Only a semi retarded numpty like Don't Matter could equate this to one full time coach per club. The clubs themselves pay 50% of their GPO's wages while the DCB cover the rest. Always bear in mind when reading Don't Matter posts that he makes stuff up. Lots of stuff.
The remaining Leinster counties can vote to move Dublin out of Croke Park for Leinster CHampionship games anytime they see fit. Laois, Westmeath, Wexford etc have have so far decided not to do so because it would hut them financially. This hpweber doesn't stop them moaning hypocrtically about a situation of their own making.
and that's it pretty much in a nutshell
If 2/3 clubs down the country got together they could fund 50% of a full time or part time coach. Stop paying big money to the senior football or hurling manager and invest in underage and in-house coaches.
But where would the balance of the funding come from? There is no money available for other counties.
Quote from: neilthemac on May 06, 2014, 11:17:42 AM
There is no money available for other counties.
The amount of sheer ignorance & mis-information on this thread is staggering.
Quote from: heffo on May 06, 2014, 11:22:31 AM
Quote from: neilthemac on May 06, 2014, 11:17:42 AM
There is no money available for other counties.
The amount of sheer ignorance & mis-information on this thread is staggering.
Where is the money then?
Shoot. Other counties will apply.
We pay towards a coach to go into schools over here and I'm really surprised that clubs don't come together and look to do as the Dublin clubs do. In my home county the county board used to fund a part-time coaches to go into schools and it was up to clubs to identify the coaches. The problem however, was that the money was only for part-time coaching and the clubs weren't topping this up so the quality of individual doing the coaching was invariably poor.
Quote from: neilthemac on May 06, 2014, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: heffo on May 06, 2014, 11:22:31 AM
Quote from: neilthemac on May 06, 2014, 11:17:42 AM
There is no money available for other counties.
The amount of sheer ignorance & mis-information on this thread is staggering.
Where is the money then?
Shoot. Other counties will apply.
Here is one example
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/keeping-up-the-momentum-30053967.html
Why don't you do the tiniest bit of research before you post nonsense
I've read that before...
"Over a seven-year period almost €7m was ring-fenced from Irish Sports Council funding to develop hurling in Dublin – the Laois fraternity would salivate at the thoughts of a small portion of that. Last year, Plunkett went on national radio to debate their plight with a GAA official. Plunkett was reminded that a centre of excellence was available to aid their development. In the same breath, however, Plunkett reminded the official that the centre in question was based at Waterford IT. Not much use to the men of Laois."
Quote from: neilthemac on May 06, 2014, 11:58:56 AM
I've read that before...
"Over a seven-year period almost €7m was ring-fenced from Irish Sports Council funding to develop hurling in Dublin – the Laois fraternity would salivate at the thoughts of a small portion of that. Last year, Plunkett went on national radio to debate their plight with a GAA official. Plunkett was reminded that a centre of excellence was available to aid their development. In the same breath, however, Plunkett reminded the official that the centre in question was based at Waterford IT. Not much use to the men of Laois."
Access to the National centre of excellence for counties is entirely seperate to the funding being made available as per my post.
the only thing I got from that article was 7 million ring fenced for Dublin, over seven years.
You said there was funding for counties? Where do they apply?
Quote from: neilthemac on May 06, 2014, 12:03:37 PM
the only thing I got from that article was 7 million ring fenced for Dublin, over seven years.
You said there was funding for counties? Where do they apply?
I've just pointed out the inaccuracy in your post - 'There is no funding available for other counties'
Clearly counties apply to Coaching & games development in Croke park with a feasible and costed plan.
Do some research on the topic and stop posting nonsense as fact.
I think it's yourself that is skewing the facts. That 7 million given to Dublin GAA isn't from the GAA, it's from the Sport Council. ie taxpayers.
Now, where do other counties apply?
Quote from: neilthemac on May 06, 2014, 12:09:56 PM
I think it's yourself that is skewing the facts. That 7 million given to Dublin GAA isn't from the GAA, it's from the Sport Council. ie taxpayers.
Now, where do other counties apply?
Read my post from last night where I clearly stated that. It's from the Irish Sports council through the GAA.
I've already told you where counties apply.
Quote from: neilthemac on May 06, 2014, 11:58:56 AM
I've read that before...
"Over a seven-year period almost €7m was ring-fenced from Irish Sports Council funding to develop hurling in Dublin – the Laois fraternity would salivate at the thoughts of a small portion of that. Last year, Plunkett went on national radio to debate their plight with a GAA official. Plunkett was reminded that a centre of excellence was available to aid their development. In the same breath, however, Plunkett reminded the official that the centre in question was based at Waterford IT. Not much use to the men of Laois."
And even less use to us much further north of Laois.
Counties are not able to apply to the Irish Sport Council for grants for non-capital projects. They have to do this through the GAA.
eg in 2012 in the Irish Sport Council capital sports grant for Dublin only €220,000 was allocated to Dublin GAA directly. The only other county board to get direct funding was Donegal - €300,000.
So where did the rest of the €1,000,000 come from then to fund Dublin coaching?
Where can other counties apply to? Because I don't see any mention of it with the Irish Sports Council.
neil, I think the point heffo is making is that the GAA decide where the Sports Council money goes, and counties should make a claim to the GAA.
I'm enjoying this...
so in the GAA 2014 financial report, the whole of the country was given €1,256,963 for games development. (that is outside of wages)
Wages for all games development staff was €2,987,781 (does that also cover all of the full time and part time coaches in Dublin)
Dublin were given a special grant of €1,470,000.
Hurling development was funded to €1,292,485 (but a lot of counties don't have hurling coaches) and there was also more funding for national and regional projects (which I'm sure Dublin is part of)
******************
So, one county gets more than the other counties combined. (should the 6 counties in NI be included?, I don't know if they are funded separate by the assembly).
I'm just clearing up the facts.
I don't think there's any doubt that Dublin gets more money than any other county. I wasn't aware that was even in question. I think what was being questioned was a) why do Dublin get so much, and b) Why not (insert county here).
My understanding of it is that a case was made, costed and planned, which the GAA liked to allow Dublin compete with other codes in the city and county. They seem to have taken this money and invested it very well.
As for b) I don't know if any counties have made a proposal that's been knocked back. I do know that all other counties get a lot less than that, but I'm not sure if they have demonstrated how and why this money is needed.
I will say that I'd be upset if counties like Offaly and Tipperary are being knocked back on the basis that their plan doesn't have a good ROI for the gaa, where ROI is being measured in pure monetary terms related to more kids playing and more crowds attending.
So it's a case of trying to take on rugby and soccer in the largest centre of population - a laudable idea but the danger is we create a monster and destroy all competition on the playing fields.
That might be alright in Professional sport where you can "decide " to support any team from anywhere but in a totally place of origin based sport......
I foresee the "Split Dublin" movement growing in strength.
(http://i.imgur.com/15E0OtV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/d7c1wxl.jpg)
For two big enough counties, Mayo and Tyrone don't fair well on the Games Development payments.
Very interesting Neil - again without being a forensic accountant, I'd have to say that if I see a column that says "Games Development" followed by a column that says "Dublin Games Development" I'd assume them to be separate items (willing to be corrected here)
If that is the case, that means nationally 4.5 mil spent on development, specifically on hurling there was 2.1 million spent nationally, and Dublin was then given 1.4 million - you'll note that figure isn't broken down as I assume all those personnel expenses etc are administered by the Dublin County board - so I'd say the coaches you're talking about come from that 1.4.
The only crossover i could possibly see is with national competitions that are competed in by Dublin - eg Cumann Na mBunscoil and Feile - which is minimal in expenditure.
Role of the provinces is very important - so whilst Cork say get 100k games development specifically for themselves, the Munster council get 1.1 million - so I'm sure there are projects within cork that benefit from this further allocation. Dublin, because of population reasons, is essentially being administered as a province, separate from Leinster. If you look at it that way, it is actually nowhere near as unfair as Don't Matter makes out - in fact it is very near equal spending per capita.
I take your point easytiger, except Dublin isn;'t competing against provinces, it's competing against counties. I think the counties need to up their game and start trying to implement the Dublin model, and look for the monies to do it.
What I can't understand amidst all the condescension and insult trading is why a county's capital funding is entirely dependent on its County Board's ability to develop a strategic plan for games promotion. County administrators will have different levels of ability so surely any games promotion should be driven by the GAA and they as the professional administrators should be looking at a national strategic plan. Should they not work with each county boards to develop 5 year, 10 year and 20 year plans per county incorporated in a NSP. Surely a model can be developed that can be flexible enough to fit a counties requirements? Does that not fit in with the GAAs inclusive ideals or is it really every county should fend for itself?
I'm a bit of a pedant AZ, what I'm actually saying is, that while Dublin are being administered as a province, they are competing as a county. Take my example of Cork - they have access to 100k games development funds directly and also a slice of the 1.1 million that the munster council have. If we divide that 1.1 million by 6 counties we get 183k or so - now if we follow the principle of
allocating that money on a per capita or playing population basis you'd expect Cork to get at least a double share - so now we're looking at Cork having about 466k to play with for development funds (could be a little less, could be a little more - I'd think it is probably more). Doing rough maths again on the perspective populations of the two counties - Dublin from the 2011 census was just under 1.27 million and Cork was 518,000 - so suddenly things aren't looking so inequal on a funding or competition basis.
Administering Dublin separately makes sense because of the size of it, but I don't think that confers any inherent advantage on the pitch.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 06, 2014, 07:56:01 PM
What I can't understand amidst all the condescension and insult trading is why a county's capital funding is entirely dependent on its County Board's ability to develop a strategic plan for games promotion. County administrators will have different levels of ability so surely any games promotion should be driven by the GAA and they as the professional administrators should be looking at a national strategic plan. Should they not work with each county boards to develop 5 year, 10 year and 20 year plans per county incorporated in a NSP. Surely a model can be developed that can be flexible enough to fit a counties requirements? Does that not fit in with the GAAs inclusive ideals or is it really every county should fend for itself?
Development plans for any Provincial Council, County board or indeed individual club are available from Croke Park. All any of the previous have to do is contact Croke Park and assistance will be made available.
Lots of counties have significant high level experience available to them - look at Charlie McGreevey in Kildare.
Would you have Croke Park hand over blank cheques with counties who have proven they cannot administer their finances to the extent they need bailouts to pay the ESB bill?
The point is which I thought was clear was why are we not moving away from this model. The GAA has professional administrators, should they not be working with county boards to ensure a cohesive county development plan that fits into a national plan and is not financially mis-managed through lack of financial acumen or incompetence.
Are the GAA incapable of driving something as important as games development and promotion from the top down?
Can't say for sure Dinny, but a basic knowledge of human nature would make you suspect that local administrators might well resent any intrusion on what they might regard as their own sphere of influence? Nothing displays power like controlling funding and in their own counties, the chairman and board members are very powerful people. All politics are local, after all, and there is nothing as political as sports administration - as lads like Pat Hickey, John Delaney, Bernard O'Byrne, Philip Browne etc would tell you.
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 06, 2014, 09:19:44 PM
Can't say for sure Dinny, but a basic knowledge of human nature would make you suspect that local administrators might well resent any intrusion on what they might regard as their own sphere of influence? Nothing displays power like controlling funding and in their own counties, the chairman and board members are very powerful people. All politics are local, after all, and there is nothing as political as sports administration - as lads like Pat Hickey, John Delaney, Bernard O'Byrne, Philip Browne etc would tell you.
I suppose that's the answer I was afraid of. On one hand parochialism is the driving force behind the GAA but it does hold it back in other ways. I would like to see as everyone one would a more equitable system while recognisingt the structures that are there currently. However I don't think at grassroots level there are enough forward thinkers in the weaker counties to avail of those structures. I have no idea how this can be addressed certainly not under the landscape , as a friend of mine once said to me "you send the useless ones of to be the county delegates" maybe we should be sending the good uns.
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 06, 2014, 07:59:58 PM
I'm a bit of a pedant AZ, what I'm actually saying is, that while Dublin are being administered as a province, they are competing as a county. Take my example of Cork - they have access to 100k games development funds directly and also a slice of the 1.1 million that the munster council have. If we divide that 1.1 million by 6 counties we get 183k or so - now if we follow the principle of
allocating that money on a per capita or playing population basis you'd expect Cork to get at least a double share - so now we're looking at Cork having about 466k to play with for development funds (could be a little less, could be a little more - I'd think it is probably more). Doing rough maths again on the perspective populations of the two counties - Dublin from the 2011 census was just under 1.27 million and Cork was 518,000 - so suddenly things aren't looking so inequal on a funding or competition basis.
Administering Dublin separately makes sense because of the size of it, but I don't think that confers any inherent advantage on the pitch.
I suspect your figures for Cork are faulty they look very dubious to me, unless of course, you have the Cork GAA accounts at hand :)
And Dublin do have a share of the Leinster pot, just as Cork have some share of the Munster pot, Dublin garner an extra Eur260k from the Leinster pot,
i.e. according to the fanciful named "Unleashing the Blue Wave" pdf document http://tinyurl.com/q2nv3lo (http://tinyurl.com/q2nv3lo)
But Cork GAA is not short of cash raised by themselves, I think they even have suitcases full of cash reserves.
Best page of the thread so far! Finally some well constructed argument. Well played lads!
Main Street - any argument I put forward there were solely based on Neilthemac's very helpfully posted figures and CSO census figures. You might cut and paste the 260k figure from that report - no time to go through it, but given that Leinster counties are actively canvassing to keep Dublin in Croker to keep up revenue streams, I'd be surprised if that is the case now- the Blue Wave document is from 2011 and Neilthemac's figures from 2013.
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 08, 2014, 04:55:23 PM
Main Street - any argument I put forward there were solely based on Neilthemac's very helpfully posted figures and CSO census figures. You might cut and paste the 260k figure from that report - no time to go through it, but given that Leinster counties are actively canvassing to keep Dublin in Croker to keep up revenue streams, I'd be surprised if that is the case now- the Blue Wave document is from 2011 and Neilthemac's figures from 2013.
Page 27
The total cost of the Dublin/SRC games development programme has been running at c €3m per year which has traditionally been part funded by the Irish Sports Council (€900k), Dublin Clubs (€860k), Central Council (€600k) and Leinster Council (€260k), with the balance being provided by the Dublin County Committee.I don't agree with the veracity of the figures you have extrapolated from the Operating Payments graph.
The method you use looks very dubious to me. Simplest thing is have a look at the Dublin and Cork published accounts and compare them.
In the end, Dublin has the population and inevitably if games development are to receive financial support, Dublin will receive more funding for programs.
And dividing up the games development kitty by 32 (plus Britain and elsewhere) just doesn't cut the mustard.
but there are no concrete figures to support your contention that Cork are receiving similar funding in proportion to the Dubs.
The section that has apparent inequality is to do with team expenses, on that 2013 Operating Payments graph.
Maybe there is some explanation for some teams who make progress in championship who got paltry sums, eg Donegal 30k.
Here there is scope for a rational distribution of funds to support county panel preparations and their travel expenses.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 29, 2014, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: Thisonegoesto11 on April 29, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
...its about 'playing at home for the rest of the season' .....doesn't say Dublin GAA....but most threads tend to be about Dublin (unless started by a Dub :) )
Who else is playing at home for the rest of the season?
your mother? :P
Morgan envious of Cluxton's speedy ball boy service
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=218165 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=218165)
dubs need to be taken out of croker,simple as.