I remember paying €45 to watch Kildare v Fermanagh and Kilkenny v Cork and remember having a little moan to herself about the price.....
and how foolish I feel now as it will cost double that (€91) to watch Ireland play England and the same for the French match, I think the IRFU might struggle to sell out Croke Park this year particularly for the French game, absolute madness...... ::)
Nah it will sell out for these games but the price is crazy, i think i will head for the hill myself!
i paid £45 for the cheapest seats for Ireland V Scotland at Murrayfield
When do the tickets go on sale?
Quote from: The Corporal on January 27, 2009, 11:44:02 AM
When do the tickets go on sale?
Exactly.
There won't be a public sale of tickets. All through clubs etc.
Ireland v France will sell out easily. Their prices are a consequence of supply and demand, and in fact they could add another 10% and still sell out with ease. Maybe more.
QuoteIreland v France will sell out easily. Their prices are a consequence of supply and demand, and in fact they could add another 10% and still sell out with ease. Maybe more.
You're actually wrong, both games are sold out because the clubs have had to had to buy the tickets up front but the clubs are struggling to get rid of their tickets at those prices so we might actually see plenty of empty seats in Croke Park for the French game.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 27, 2009, 12:10:24 PM
QuoteIreland v France will sell out easily. Their prices are a consequence of supply and demand, and in fact they could add another 10% and still sell out with ease. Maybe more.
You're actually wrong, both games are sold out because the clubs have had to had to buy the tickets up front but the clubs are struggling to get rid of their tickets at those prices so we might actually see plenty of empty seats in Croke Park for the French game.
I suppose tickets for the England game are like gold dust?
Anyone know where I could get my hands on two of these?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 27, 2009, 12:10:24 PM
QuoteIreland v France will sell out easily. Their prices are a consequence of supply and demand, and in fact they could add another 10% and still sell out with ease. Maybe more.
You're actually wrong, both games are sold out because the clubs have had to had to buy the tickets up front but the clubs are struggling to get rid of their tickets at those prices so we might actually see plenty of empty seats in Croke Park for the French game.
Well apologies if I'm wrong.
I'm not in a rugby club and havent heard anything of a general sale or loads of tickets available. I'll certainly be surprised when I see the plenty of empty seats when the French run out.
Well, there might not be plenty of seats <he says sheepishly> but the clubs will struggle to sell the seats, so there might be a few empty seats...
Baoithe,
If I don't go I can get you 2........
Save your money for the leagues ;) Sure the rugby's on the telly,
QuoteSave your money for the leagues Wink Sure the rugby's on the telly,
I actually bought a Kildare season ticket, what is it they about a fool and his money :-[
O'Driscoll retains Ireland captaincy
Head coach Declan Kidney has confirmed that Brian O'Driscoll will retain the captaincy of Ireland for the upcoming RBS Six Nations Championship.
The announcement was made today at a press conference held at Ireland's current training base in Limerick.
The move comes despite speculation that O'Driscoll, who this season gave up the captaincy of Leinster, which is now held by Leo Cullen, would be replaced in the role by Munster captain Paul O'Connell.
Ulster captain Rory Best and Munster out-half Ronan O'Gara were also touted as alternative captains.
Kidney said: 'I'm delighted that Brian has yet again agreed to lead the side in this year's championship.
'He has the leadership qualities which are vital at this level and, along with the other leaders in the squad, will be important for the tournament ahead.'
O'Driscoll has captained Ireland 51 times, most recently in the three game November International series.
Ireland's Six Nations campaign gets underway at Croke Park on Saturday, 7 February against France.
Kidney also revealed that Ireland are in negotiations to stage a fourth international in the Autumn and that a summer tour to Canada and the USA has also been agreed.
Ireland will play Tests against both sides in late May, using players who have not been selected for the Lions tour to South Africa and who will not feature in the Heineken Cup final (23 May).
An 'A' squad will be sent to the Churchill Cup, meaning that a total of around 60 players will be required for international duty this summer.
Kidney said: "This plan for the year allows us to spread the net across a greater number of players and to get to know them in the best way possible.
'With a total of 14 games that the national management will be involved in this year, it serves two purposes. Firstly, it will give us the chance to work with players who may be just below the more established members of the squad in a pressure situation.
'Secondly, it gives them the exposure which is important for their development at the highest level.'
Australia, Fiji and South Africa are Ireland's confirmed opponents in November with the extra fixture, yet to be finalised, taking place on the weekend of November 7-8.
Good thing Kidney was appointed , he has certainly rung in the changes ::)
we're heading down to the england game...as usual, ebay is awash with cnuts touting.. ticket touting online not outlawed in this day and age? Hooers charging 500 lids for 2 tickets for the Horgan Stand...where the fcuk is the Horgan Stand I axed my self?
PQ
Mon prédiction
1. France
2. Wales
3. England
4. Ireland
5. Scotland
6. Italy
1. Wales
2. Ireland
3. France
4. Scotland
5. England
6. Italy
Think Ireland could be in with a chance this year - if we catch France 'on the hop' at croker unlike that agonising defeat in 2007 could give some momentum leading in to the rest of the games.
I'm the eternal optimist that this team will deliver :P
Quote from: C_Berg_316 on January 27, 2009, 02:34:09 PM
Think Ireland could be in with a chance this year - if we catch France 'on the hop' at croker unlike that agonising defeat in 2007 could give some momentum leading in to the rest of the games.
I'm the eternal optimist that this team will deliver :P
Vital to win the first game against France. If they do they have Italy next and will get some momentum behind them before facing England at home. Beat France and you can easily see them winning their first three games and having a shot at the championship.
Lose to France at CP and it could all go pear shaped very quickly.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on January 27, 2009, 02:55:47 PM
Quote from: C_Berg_316 on January 27, 2009, 02:34:09 PM
Think Ireland could be in with a chance this year - if we catch France 'on the hop' at croker unlike that agonising defeat in 2007 could give some momentum leading in to the rest of the games.
I'm the eternal optimist that this team will deliver :P
Vital to win the first game against France. If they do they have Italy next and will get some momentum behind them before facing England at home. Beat France and you can easily see them winning their first three games and having a shot at the championship.
Lose to France at CP and it could all go pear shaped very quickly.
I agree GalwayBay - and France are prone to sometimes not starting the tournament well - i recall them losing to a poor scottish side once or twice in the first game - hopefully Ireland can turn them over anyway - was gutting the way they lost out to France at croker the last time - hopefully that will spur them on!
1> Ireland
2> France
3> Wales
4> Scotland
5> Italy
6> England
6 nations is sponsored by Carlsberg , right?
PQ
I personally think we have a great chance this time round. England are in transition, Scotland and Italy really shouldn't pose any problems and we are well capable of beating Wales and France - especially if both aren't on top form and they can be inconsistent. Our autumn form is a worry as we were fairly poor but perhaps this is cause for optimism as good autumn form has often flattered to deceive in the past.
Nice article about Geordan Murphy this morn, the other Leicester Murphy Johnny was an even better footballer, played mid-field for Ellistown and would have be in the Kildare panel now...
QuoteSPORTING PASSION GEORGDAN MURPHY: Mark Rodden on how concentrating on rugby didn't allow the Ireland and Leicester player to take his Gaelic football career as far as he might
THE FIRST sport I played was Gaelic football and I played golf as well – they would have been the two main ones, along with a little bit of soccer. But I suppose Gaelic football would have been my first love.
Like a lot of youngsters I started in a Christian Brothers school when I was five or six years old. I would have always watched rugby, but I didn't actually play with a team until I went to school in Newbridge when I was 13. Before then I'd always played touch rugby – I was used to kicking a rugby ball and passing a rugby ball, but I'd never played a game until then.
Before that it was always Gaelic football and I really enjoyed playing it. I suppose one of the drawbacks of having to go to England so young is you don't see as much Gaelic football and you certainly don't get to play it.
I played in Naas and at underage level I remember playing at midfield, full back and centre half forward. When I got a little bit older I played a few games for the senior team at left half back or in the half forward line – I played across the board, really.
It wasn't until I was playing senior rugby for Newbridge that some of the Kildare guys saw me goal-kicking and thought it might be an opportunity to get me to train with the minors to have a look at me before the championship started, as I might have been an asset as a free-taker from the ground. I think that's why I got an invitation, because I wasn't playing a whole lot of Gaelic football during the rugby season – from the age of 16 or 17 I was only playing it in the summer.
I went down and played a couple of friendly matches with them, but I never actually played championship with Kildare minors. I'm not saying I would have been selected because I don't know if I was good enough, but there were time constraints and some very competitive senior cup rugby didn't allow me the time to continue with it.
Dermot Early and Pádraig Brennan were playing at the time and Tadhg Fennin as well. I've seen Early a few times and have spoken to him on occasions since then. He's obviously gone from strength to strength in his football career – he's a fantastic player and a hell of a nice guy too.
Around the time I went to England, Kildare were doing very well. They won some big games against the likes of Meath and Dublin and played in some real humdingers of matches. I was able to fly back to watch the games and it was fantastic to experience the excitement in the county.
I watched the 1998 All-Ireland final loss to Galway in a pub in Leicester because I couldn't get over for it. It's been a little bit quieter in the last few years but I think we'll be back before too long.
The community vibe you get in Gaelic games is very different to anything you'll get anywhere else. It's very difficult for me to explain to English guys how it works and how parishes will take things like the championship so seriously
That people from little villages and little towns will be training two or three nights a week, they'll give up drink and do whatever they have to do before a match against a rival parish or rival town that might only be five or 10 miles down the road, without getting a penny or without expecting anything for it.
Croke Park is a fantastic stadium and I'm very lucky to have played there. I remember as a young boy being asked what I wanted to do and I always said to play rugby for Ireland in Lansdowne and Gaelic for Kildare in Croke Park. I never managed to play Gaelic for Kildare in Croke Park, but I have managed to play rugby in both venues.
I really enjoy golf too and I started playing it at quite a young age. We were members of Naas Golf Club and played a lot there as youngsters. We're all proud of Paul McGinley, whose parents were members there. He actually came and coached the juveniles when I was a youngster, but he didn't get to coach me because for whatever reason I was away. I was gutted about missing it at the time.
Obviously he's gone on to bigger and better things since then and I think people down there are very proud of him.
I think anything less than Ireland winning the six nations has to be regarded as a failure. For too long we had Eddie O'Sullivan's rip off mentality, moral victories and triple crowns - I hope none of this continues into the new regime.
"Up front" at Kidney's disposal he has the bulk of Munster's pack and also options like Ferris and Heaslip to make it even more competitive. Similarly with the backs he has the experienced Leinster set of backs including also great newer options like Kearney, Fitzgerald and Earls. I'd be concerned about the lack of depth at number 10 however.
Any talk of bedding in or transition is a cop out.
The key fixture is the first one against France. O'Sullivan used to constantly talk up the opposition and talk sh-t about preparing for the world cups. The French game was always built up as a massive mental block. There was a pattern in more than two French matches of a disastrous first half until the players started to actually stand up and play and it would end in a narrow defeat. It is up to the players to play the whole game against France. At home there should be no excuses - it is the best time to get them.
I think the six nations will end up with Ireland missing out on the title, possibly on points difference. I'd be wary of the trip to Scotland. It seems overall a fairly even championship. Fair play to Wales, they took their chances and won their grand slams in recent years. No reason why Ireland can't win it either.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 27, 2009, 12:10:24 PM
QuoteIreland v France will sell out easily. Their prices are a consequence of supply and demand, and in fact they could add another 10% and still sell out with ease. Maybe more.
You're actually wrong, both games are sold out because the clubs have had to had to buy the tickets up front but the clubs are struggling to get rid of their tickets at those prices so we might actually see plenty of empty seats in Croke Park for the French game.
My Own club in Belfast is looking tickets for its members and I know aload of people in similar clubs, (Malone, Instonians, Carlow) looking tickets... No change in any other year from what I see and hear... - Where did you hear this from, can you tell me the clubs you know struggling??
Also clubs buying tickets up front is something the clubs wanted. We do not have to commit to buy any set number of tickets but each club is allocated tickets and if we need more or less we say so... Its seldom that a club has spare tickets.
A lot of Junior Clubs (eg Portlaoise, Portarlington, Athy, Cill Dara, Clane) in Leinster are struggling to get rid of French tickets within their clubs, remind me again how many were at the Argentina game yet all these tickets were bought by the clubs, the clubs took a heavy hit on that game. The clubs do not get as many tickets as they want they have a set allocation at the start of the season and if they get 150 tickets they have to take 150 else their allocation the next time will be reduced and Clubs can look but will generally not get any more and cannot return tickets. The clubs you name are all Senior clubs with large member base and sponsorship base for example Carlow's tickets generally go to their sponsors with a limited number going to players and members on a lottery basis, it's no surprise senior clubs are still looking for more...
I doubt if anyone who wants a ticket for the French game will have any trouble getting one though
BTW when they moved to Croker each club was allowed apply for a larger allocation, when they back to Lansdowne they revert to their original allocation, this will result in a supply and demand situation where the IRFU can keep prices at an artifical high thus ensuring the Six Nations will remain as popular as ever as an event.
The Argentina game was a sell out... however 60k went...
The tickets were sold along with the All Black tickets and the problem was people who bought the AB ticket didn't go to Argentina game... (fair enough it was only a Friendly international)
I know for a fact Clane & Athy are looking French tickets as my Uncle is a former President of Clane and was on to me looking tickets. You are right that alot of tickets at senior level will go to sponsors. But you will also find a club like Cork Con or Dungannon will get considerably more tickets then your Clanes or Mullingars.
Dinny - are you saying you may be able to get tickets?
QuoteThe tickets were sold along with the All Black tickets and the problem was people who bought the AB ticket didn't go to Argentina game... (fair enough it was only a Friendly international)
The tickets were bundled and not every club was able to sell them as a twin package, €160 is a lot of money to pass over just to see the All-Blacks. Athy and Clane are small clubs with small allocations in fact Clane were a J2 club less than 10 years ago and would be one of the smallest clubs with the smallest allocations in Leinster, club President in rugby is generally just a token thing no surprise he's looking for tickets . Trust me the demand is not what it use to be.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 29, 2009, 06:40:45 PM
A lot of Junior Clubs (eg Portlaoise, Portarlington, Athy, Cill Dara, Clane) in Leinster are struggling to get rid of French tickets within their clubs, I
I think its fair to say Dinny that "struggling" in this sense means that after all members and their mates have taken their tickets, they still have some left over, so they need to do a bit of leg work to get rid of them. However, I'd be surprised if there's any left come Saturday. I work in a place with a large number of employees and during the last week two lads put notices on our e-noticeboard that their respective clubs had a number of tickets available. In less than 24 hours the "sold" sign was up. There's definitely plenty of willing buyers out there, the only problem is that the system in place means that many probably don't know there are tickets available if they'd only ring around rugby clubs.
QuoteI think its fair to say Dinny that "struggling" in this sense means that after all members and their mates have taken their tickets, they still have some left over, so they need to do a bit of leg work to get rid of them.
In a nutshell Hound, probably haven't got that across very well.
Anyway thought was interesting....
QuoteRFU may cut prices as fans 'sit on wallets'
By Mick Cleary
Friday January 30 2009
THE recession has hit Twickenham with a vengeance. The Rugby Football Union are considering job losses in expectation of a £10m revenue shortfall next season and for the first time have not sold out their Six Nations home games.
The Twickenham stadium capacity has been increased from 75,000 to 82,000, with adult tickets costing £41-83. That pricing structure is now being reviewed for the games against Italy in eight days' time, France on March 15 and Scotland six days later.
Twickenham's corporate hospitality market has also been hit hard, with blue-chip clients unable or unwilling to purchase packages. Sales are down 27pc for this season, seeing a loss of some £2m against budget forecasts.
"People are sitting on their wallets at the moment," said RFU chief executive Francis Baron yesterday.
Downturn
"We have had to be hard-nosed and realistic about the environment we are likely to be facing over the next 12-18 months. A 10pc downturn in a £100m-plus business is a big number."
The RFU have set up a financial and legal helpline for their 2,000 member clubs who might be experiencing difficulties with either banks or landlords or defaults on existing contracts. Baron has also been in contact with his fellow CEOs at the leading unions around the world to set up a conference in the next four to six weeks to thrash out common policy.
He has already had to initiate cuts of £1m to £1.5m this year and is looking to cut costs by £5m to £6m next year.
The RFU are now wondering if they can afford to bid for the 2015 Rugby World Cup, even though the guarantee required by RWC has been reduced from £100m to £80m. (© Daily Telegraph, London)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 29, 2009, 09:44:50 PM
QuoteThe tickets were sold along with the All Black tickets and the problem was people who bought the AB ticket didn't go to Argentina game... (fair enough it was only a Friendly international)
The tickets were bundled and not every club was able to sell them as a twin package, €160 is a lot of money to pass over just to see the All-Blacks. Athy and Clane are small clubs with small allocations in fact Clane were a J2 club less than 10 years ago and would be one of the smallest clubs with the smallest allocations in Leinster, club President in rugby is generally just a token thing no surprise he's looking for tickets . Trust me the demand is not what it use to be.
You are talking out of your arse....
Firstly in relation to the All Black's / Argentina game it was a sell out. Before this match clubs canvassed their members to see who wanted tickets and they put their allocation in to IRFU. I know I organised it for my own club. We put in for 300 tickets - we got 120. Not one club, I know, got the amount of tickets they asked for.
You said earlier Clane & Athy were struggling with selling their ticket allocations. They are not. I also spoke with Portarlington last night and they have there's all gone.
QuoteWe do not have to commit to buy any set number of tickets but each club is allocated tickets and if we need more or less we say so
This is what you stated, now you state that you looked for 300 and got 120 which is it? That's rethorical btw.
The simple fact is that the IRFU determine the maximum number of tickets a club gets, you can apply for less but if you apply for more you have no chance although that could very well change considering the climate.
I made a point that clubs are struggling to get rid of their tickets this was mainly within the confines of the club and are having for the 1st time that I can remember going outside that circle to get rid of tickets.
To be honest 120 is not a big alliocation and I can see why your club is looking for more but the club I'm involved with gets in excess of 240 and have had to ask members to get rid of tickets.
The Argentina game was only a sell-out because the clubs paid for the tickets in advance because it was bundled with the NZ game, not every club was able to sell the Argentina tickets on because not every club felt it right to charge people €160 in fact clubs in the north were emailing clubs in the south trying to get rid of their Argentina alliocation, that is a fact as it was distributed by the Leinster Branch. This was not a sell-out as regards attendance why was that MH because people were willing to spend €160 to watch the all-blacks and not go to the Argentina game, are people that f*cking dumb/rich up there? Or maybe the plausible answer is that the clubs simply could sell the tickets on...
Anyway I can't be arsed to argue anymore, I'll just going to disagree with you and leave it at that.
France gamble at fly-half for Ireland
Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:04
France took the gamble of naming only one recognised flyhalf and goalkicker, Lionel Beauxis, for their Six Nations opener against Ireland on 7 February in Dublin.
Scrumhalf Jean-Baptiste Elissalde had been expected to feature in the 23-player squad to act as cover for Beauxis because he wore the number 10 jersey for Toulouse in last year's finals of the Heineken Cup and the French championship.
Coach Marc Lievremont, however, dropped the 31-year-old and selected Sebastien Tillous-Borde and Morgan Parra, who are 23 and 20 respectively.
'We decided to give Parra and Tillous-Borde more playing time,' Lievremont told a news conference.
'Scrumhalf is a position where you need experience. We have something like 25 games to play before the 2011 World Cup, it's time to toughen them up.'
Tillous-Borde, who has four caps, was Beauxis's partner at halfbacks in the France team which won the world under-21 title in 2006 under the coaching of Lievremont.
Parra also has four caps, won during last season's Six Nations.
Asked what he would do if Beauxis needed to be replaced during the Croke Park game, Lievremont said: 'Parra is a versatile player but we'll rely on a centre like Yannick Jauzion or Benoit Baby.'
Jauzion will lead a strong contingent of seven Toulouse players -- prop Benoit Lecouls, flanker Thierry Dusautoir, centre Florian Fritz, wing-cum-fullback Maxime Medard, wing Cedric Heymans and fullback Clement Poitrenaud.
'Clement had very convincing games with Stade Toulousain,' Lievremont said to explain the return of the creative fullback who won the last of his 31 caps in the third-place playoff of the 2007 World Cup against Argentina.
There was no place in the squad for flanker Julien Bonnaire, lock Jerome Thion or wing Aurelien Rougerie, who had all been recalled to the 30-man training squad.
Imanol Harinordoquy, who was left out of the three-day training session because of a sore knee, is back in the squad after being declared fit.
Lievremont is due to announce his starting line-up on Tuesday.
France RBS 6 Nations squad v Ireland, Saturday 7 February, 5.00pm:
Forwards: Nicolas Mas, Lionel Faure, Benoit Lecouls, Fabien Barcella, Dimitri Szarzewski, Benjamin Kayser, Sebastien Chabal, Lionel Nallet (captain), Romain Millo-Chluski, Thierry Dusautoir, Fulgence Ouedraogo, Louis Picamoles, Imanol Harinordoquy.
Backs: Sebastien Tillous-Borde, Morgan Parra, Lionel Beauxis, Yannick Jauzion, Benoit Baby, Florian Fritz, Julien Malzieu, Cedric Heymans, Clement Poitrenaud, Maxime Medard
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2009/0128/france.html
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 30, 2009, 11:45:34 AM
QuoteWe do not have to commit to buy any set number of tickets but each club is allocated tickets and if we need more or less we say so
This is what you stated, now you state that you looked for 300 and got 120 which is it? That's rethorical btw.
Autumn Internationals in Croke Park have operated differently then six nations.... How easy is it to get that?
Just got a call there earlier confirming my ticket for next weeks game at croker v france.
should be a comfortable Irish win. Might not be wonderful rugby, but a ground out forwards based victory I hope.
Ireland have cut their squad to 27:
Ireland Squad V France
Backs:
Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
Girvan Dempsey (Terenure College - Leinster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne - Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster - Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College - Leinster)
Shane Horgan (Boyne - Leinster)
Robert Kearney (UCD - Leinster)
Geordan Murphy (Leicester)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD - Leinster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution - Munster)
Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin - Munster)
Peter Stringer (Shannon - Munster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena - Ulster)
Forwards:
Rory Best (Banbridge - Ulster)
Tom Court (Malone - Ulster)*
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon - Ulster)
Jerry Flannery (Shannon - Munster)
John Hayes (Bruff- Munster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas - Leinster)
Marcus Horan (Shannon - Munster)
Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution - Munster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution - Munster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster - Munster)
Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution - Munster)
Malcolm O'Kelly (St.Mary's College - Leinster)
Alan Quinlan (Shannon - Munster)
David Wallace (Garryowen - Munster)
I've heard the team from a source. No idea if he's reliable or not, but time will tell...
Munster front 5.
Ferris Heaslip Wallace
The Os
Luke and Bowe on the wings
Paddy Wallace at centre with Drico.
Kearney at full back.
Leamy, Dempsey and Murphy among the subs.
Would be very happy with that team, except I'd have Best at hooker and Dempsey nowhere near the squad, will wait and see.
Kearney
Bowe
O'Driscoll
Wallace
Fitzgerald
O'Gara
O'Leary
Horan
Flannery
Hayes
O'Callaghan
O'Connell
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
Best, Court, O'Kelly, Leamy, Stringer, D'Arcy, Murphy
Good team, impressed with the layout and more confident than I was when I seen the squad.
A scoop in the Ziggy class there, Hound.
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on February 03, 2009, 12:44:35 PM
Kearney
Bowe
O'Driscoll
Wallace
Fitzgerald
O'Gara
O'Leary
Horan
Flannery
Hayes
O'Callaghan
O'Connell
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
Best, Court, O'Kelly, Leamy, Stringer, D'Arcy, Murphy
That is as good a side as we can put out, I guess.
Quote from: Hardy on February 03, 2009, 12:59:06 PM
A scoop in the Ziggy class there, Hound.
Indeed, I fed back Dinny's comments on Best and Girv, and while we were already up to our quota of Nordies, they dumped Dempsey and gave D'Arcy the no. 21 jersey ;D
Quote from: Hound on February 03, 2009, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 03, 2009, 12:59:06 PM
A scoop in the Ziggy class there, Hound.
Indeed, I fed back Dinny's comments on Best and Girv, and while we were already up to our quota of Nordies, they dumped Dempsey and gave D'Arcy the no. 21 jersey ;D
Dempsey might not be totally out of the picture just yet for Sat as I believe Kearney is a bit of an injury concern at the moment :-\
Hope to fcuk he is ok as I really expect him to have a massive 6 nations and push on for the Lions FB spot later in the year.
I'm happy enough with that team. I'd rather have Best in, but Flannery is a class act too, so it's hardly a bad thing.
But the replacements could be better thought out. O'Kelly has nothing to offer as an impact sub, nor does Stringer.
QuoteI'm happy enough with that team. I'd rather have Best in, but Flannery is a class act too, so it's hardly a bad thing.
I concur but Flannery does make a better impact from the bench, minor quibble though. Also would have Reddan and Caldwell on the bench but nice to see Wallace at 12, could be the spark the backline needs.
France team named:
Clement Poitrenaud
Julien Malzieu, Florian Fritz, Yannick Jauzion, Maxime Medard
Lionel Beauxis, Sebastien Tillous-Borde
Lionel Faure, Dimitri Szarzewski, Benoit Lecouls
Sebastien Chabal, Lionel Nallet
Thierry Dusautoir, Fulgence Ouedraogo, Imanol Harinordoquy
Replacements: Benjamin Kayser, Nicolas Mas, Romain Millo-Chluski, Louis Picamoles, Morgan Parra, Benoit Baby, Cedric Heymans
Now for those doubting Thomas's who tought I was talking through my arse about ticket demand for this game, I can never remember tickets been returned in the last 20 years..
QuoteMESSAGE TO ALL FULL AND ASSOCIATE MEMBERS
Dear Member,
1. Munster v Leinster, Magners League
For any member who may not yet have secured a ticket for the Munster v Leinster Magners League match we wish to inform you that there are a limited number of tickets going on public sale this morning.
They will be available on www.munsterrugby.ie from 10am until sold out.
2. Ireland v France, Italy v Ireland
Munster Rugby have a limited number of returned tickets for the Ireland v France international this weekend and Italy v Ireland international in Rome on Sat 14th February. These tickets will be available to all members on a first come first serve basis from 2pm today. To purchase please log into your ticket account.
What site is this on Dinny??
Ireland team to play France in the RBS 6 Nations at Croke Park on Saturday February 7, kick-off 5pm:
Kearney (Leinster);
T Bowe (Ospreys),
B O'Driscoll (Leinster, captain),
P Wallace (Ulster),
L Fitzgerald (Arizona);
R O'Gara (Munster),
T O'Leary (Munster);
M Horan (Munster),
J Flannery (Munster),
J Hayes (Munster),
D O'Callaghan (Munster),
P O'Connell (Munster),
S Ferris (Ulster),
D Wallace (Munster),
J Heaslip (Leinster).
Replacements: R Best (Ulster), T Court (Ulster), M O'Kelly (Leinster), D Leamy (Munster), P Stringer (Munster), G D'Arcy (Leinster), G Murphy (Leicester).
edit: didnt realise the team was already posted.
QuoteWhat site is this on Dinny??
Robbed it from one-eyedfans.com. But it was an email sent out by Munster Rugby.
Quote from: thejuice on February 03, 2009, 02:18:09 PM
Ireland team to play France in the RBS 6 Nations at Croke Park on Saturday February 7, kick-off 5pm:
Kearney (Leinster);
T Bowe (Ospreys),
B O'Driscoll (Leinster, captain),
P Wallace (Ulster),
L Fitzgerald (Arizona);
R O'Gara (Munster),
T O'Leary (Munster);
M Horan (Munster),
J Flannery (Munster),
J Hayes (Munster),
D O'Callaghan (Munster),
P O'Connell (Munster),
S Ferris (Ulster),
D Wallace (Munster),
J Heaslip (Leinster).
Replacements: R Best (Ulster), T Court (Ulster), M O'Kelly (Leinster), D Leamy (Munster), P Stringer (Munster), G D'Arcy (Leinster), G Murphy (Leicester).
edit: didnt realise the team was already posted.
???
Quote from: thebandit on February 03, 2009, 02:33:40 PM
Quote from: thejuice on February 03, 2009, 02:18:09 PM
Ireland team to play France in the RBS 6 Nations at Croke Park on Saturday February 7, kick-off 5pm:
Kearney (Leinster);
T Bowe (Ospreys),
B O'Driscoll (Leinster, captain),
P Wallace (Ulster),
L Fitzgerald (Arizona);
R O'Gara (Munster),
T O'Leary (Munster);
M Horan (Munster),
J Flannery (Munster),
J Hayes (Munster),
D O'Callaghan (Munster),
P O'Connell (Munster),
S Ferris (Ulster),
D Wallace (Munster),
J Heaslip (Leinster).
Replacements: R Best (Ulster), T Court (Ulster), M O'Kelly (Leinster), D Leamy (Munster), P Stringer (Munster), G D'Arcy (Leinster), G Murphy (Leicester).
edit: didnt realise the team was already posted.
???
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=5335.1845
Put us in the mood for the weekend.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_36G5T4QTw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_36G5T4QTw)
I'm looking forward to this tomorrow. I think Ireland will win it if Kearney is fit to go, and if our back row is as good as it seems.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 06, 2009, 09:06:11 AM
Put us in the mood for the weekend.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_36G5T4QTw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_36G5T4QTw)
Brilliant. Really starting to look forward to this.
Quote from: Roger on February 06, 2009, 10:30:42 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 06, 2009, 09:06:11 AM
Put us in the mood for the weekend.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_36G5T4QTw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_36G5T4QTw)
Brilliant. Really starting to look forward to this.
me too. best tournament in the world, wont miss a kick of it.
Jaysus that brings back a few memories. Simon Geoghegan must be kicking himself he wasn't born about 10 years later.
Purhased two tickets and will be heading down...scandlous price all the same. Is there any hint or word the game could be cancelled because of the weather?
No. There's undersoil heating at Croker, so the game should be fine. There's so suggestion thus far. I suppose if the French have difficulty getting here it might be cancelled, but they are probably already here.
Interesting that Mike Ruddock (Welshman, who also coached Wales to a Grand Slam) has two sons playing for Ireland (U20s) rather than Wales, even though they both play and live in Wales. Mike's wife is Irish so perhaps they were born over here.
Quote from: Hound on February 06, 2009, 10:58:28 AM
Interesting that Mike Ruddock (Welshman, who also coached Wales to a Grand Slam) has two sons playing for Ireland (U20s) rather than Wales, even though they both play and live in Wales. Mike's wife is Irish so perhaps they were born over here.
I'm pretty sure one of them was originally playing for Wales at underage level. He must have switched recently.
The one with the Irish name Ciaran Ruddock was born in Wales while the one with the Welsh name Rhys Ruddock was born in Ireland.
Well the Big day has finally arrived. Ireland to win today! - Grand Slam in the bag ;)
Should be a good day out whatever happens tho. Be careful if anyone is driving up tho boys as the roads look like shite on the news in some parts!
I have a good feeling about this game despite having lost the last 7 to France. I'll be landing in Drumcondra at 3 and again around 7 hopefully smiling.
Q: Name the players who have scored a hat-trick of tries in the 6 (5) nations against two different nations?
Note: Thanks to John McGill from this site for the tickets.
Good win by the under 20's last night . A penalty kick in the last few minutes to win it 9-6 not a great game . The number 8 for ireland (i forget his name) had a great game
England look poor enough here - only really fit to capitalise on Italy mistakes, particularly from their scrum half in the first half. BBC commentators seem very unhappy. Italy had done very well possession wise but were the masters of their own downfall.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on February 07, 2009, 04:41:15 PM
England look poor enough here - only really fit to capitalise on Italy mistakes, particularly from their scrum half in the first half. BBC commentators seem very unhappy. Italy had done very well possession wise but were the masters of their own downfall.
Aye, Austin Healy as the 'match analysist' is not amused.
Hes prob wishing he had signed up to the SCD tour instead.
YESSSSSSSSSSSS
Excellent start to the campaign from a relatively rejuvenated Ireland. Playing with more confidence, composure and a good all around display.
Some shimmy by big Easlip.
Superb game and credit must go to both sides for playing expansive, entertaining rugby. Some excellent individual perfomances from Brian O'Driscoll and Jamie Heaslip. A special mention to Gordon D'Arcy after coming back from his injury nightmare.
That was some battle out there. Those French guys are teak tough.
At last the Leinster pansys rolled up their (virtual) sleeves and were magnificent.
I thought that was great, and the Irish looked like a real team for the first time in ages. The O'Driscoll try was pure Munster and Leinster combined with O'Connell winning great ball off the top of the lineout, O'Leary quick to O'Gara, O'Gara lovely flat pass and O'Driscoll doing his magic against the drift defence, Delighted for O'Driscoll especially, and D'Arcy as well. Tough 12 or 18 months for both of them guys.
Heaslip was great at the ball carrying, especially of the base of the scrum, made yards every time. I thought the rest of the team all played well, and the forwards in the loose were very good as well. It's very hopeful looking.
One thing I didn't like, and it's a product of these ELVs, was the kicking away possession. France in that mood are deadly on the counter, and you need to be up quick in the chase. We weren't because the kicks were too far ahead a good few times, and we nearly paid a few times.
Overall though, happy with that, and a win next weekend will really set up the England game. Italy won't be as bad again though, they improved in the second half today.
What's seldom is wonderful!
France has gotten out of jail so many times in the past (rem 2 years ago?) that I couldn't sit down until the ref blew the final whistle. The same man had made so many howlers throughout the game that anything was possible with him until the game had ended.
With D'Arcy coming on and doing well in the second half, will Paddy Wallace now be sacrificed for the Italian game? The injury in the first half seemed to disrupt his game but I'd probably stick with him for the match in Rome
QuoteAt last the Leinster pansys rolled up their (virtual) sleeves and were magnificent.
::)
Agree with AZ looked like the pride and passion is back in the Jersey, will have a look again at the game and give some objective analysis however I might be biased but I thought Kearney, BOD and in particular were immense today and all lot of credit must go Kidney's way, those Irish players looked like they believe again.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 07, 2009, 07:50:56 PM
What's seldom is wonderful!
France has gotten out of jail so many times in the past (rem 2 years ago?) that I couldn't sit down until the ref blew the final whistle. The same man had made so many howlers throughout the game that anything was possible with him until the game had ended.
What mistakes did you notice? I noticed a forward pass from Malzieu for the Harrinordiquay try, quite easy to notice but missed by the officials. The other thing that got to me was when towards the end of the first half Flannery was penalised for not taking the throw on time from 5 yards inside the 22. The ref ga.ve a free kick however the French player took it about 5 yards ahead of the mark where it had occurred. Is this not a free kick in reverse?
pround display today. great to see a bit of fire back. tomas o'leary covers some ground.
BOD and Heaslip were immense, but most of them were top drawer.
only downer for me was o'gara, who to me is a major weak link. team after team target the 10 channel and just run over the top of him. is it acceptable in the proofessional era that the man is still not capable of making a straight on one on one tackle? i also thought he was brutal kicking in open play. couldn't believe the lauding hook proceeded to give him.
Excellent display today. The team looked balanced for the first time in a number of years, with no square pegs in round holes.
The GAA - I've never understood the hype about O'Gara. I don't think he particularly excels at any aspect of a no.10's game, and in some areas like tackling and line-breaking, he is downright dismal. And unless his pack gives him an armchair ride, he can't dominate a game.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 07, 2009, 09:03:17 PM
Excellent display today. The team looked balanced for the first time in a number of years, with no square pegs in round holes.
The GAA - I've never understood the hype about O'Gara. I don't think he particularly excels at any aspect of a no.10's game, and in some areas like tackling and line-breaking, he is downright dismal. And unless his pack gives him an armchair ride, he can't dominate a game.
Well some fly halves can't dominate a game when a pack give them an arm chair ride. It is the packs that win games the backs decide by how much.
Lads I know as much about rugby as I do about Irish League Sawcer.....but...some of the stuff that the French were at in the 1st half was quite spectacular......that was some performance from our boys to bet them.
Just back from the game there and have to say there were a lot of positives which have already been discussed but also a few negatives. Thought Kearneys kicking was very poor but this may have been down to the weather as the French rarely kicked in order to draw a comparison. Like a few other posters I thought we were very weak down the middle. I also thought Paddy Wallace struggled one on one for large parts of the games. I also think we maybe should have scored a little more, to me the French struggled a lot defensively but in the last 15 mins we kinda set back in order to protect the lead
It looks like the rugby crowd have settled into Croker a lot easier than the soccer crowd.
Though I don't know much about rugby, I still have (worthless) opinions.
France should have walked Ireland, superb imaginative fast paced passing movements with well positioned graceful passing lines along with very tough aggressive tackling.
1/2 way through the first half, after France scored their try, the game changed, eg Ireland forgo the penalty option and took them on in the physicals, continued with that pattern and gave them better than they got. When the occasion was right, trumped the French with our own passing movement.
Maybe the kicking away of possession was part of the plan, close them down in their own half (cut them off at the pass). Players seemed to kick even when there were other options.
The last 5 minutes was rubbing the absolute superiority of the victory into the French.
Ireland were the stronger in stamina, had such self belief in their ability to win and were prepared to battle to the end to prove it.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 07, 2009, 09:03:17 PM
Excellent display today. The team looked balanced for the first time in a number of years, with no square pegs in round holes.
The GAA - I've never understood the hype about O'Gara. I don't think he particularly excels at any aspect of a no.10's game, and in some areas like tackling and line-breaking, he is downright dismal. And unless his pack gives him an armchair ride, he can't dominate a game.
As with a brave few here, I'm just an armchair rugby fan but surely O'Gara's kicking is world class (albeit that he missed a couple today).
What did the Rugby men on the board think of the referee? Was Hook correct to say he was very biased towards Ireland?
What a game!
When we kicked possession away, France caused us all sorts of problems, but when we ran with it we were superb. Took us a fair long time to figure it out, but when we did we were superb. (Hope Cheika too note)
Strong performances throughout the team, but Heaslip and O'Driscoll were supreme.
Kearney's leg/ankle didnt look too clever, so I doubt he'll be ready for Italy. Paddy Wallace's face/head looked really sore (not sure what happened) and Darce did well so that'll be a decision for Kidney.
I can't figure out the complaints about kicking possession away.
Kidney had his game plan worked out to the nth degree of perfection by the players on the pitch.
My own analysis before I read the morning papers....
Tight 5
Excellent work-rate from these guys, Horan had his best game in a while and did the grunt work and stayed off the wing. The line-out was excellent and the scrum very solid, a lot of credit to Gert Small the forwards coach. O'Connell looks like he's back to his best of 2/3 years, showed great leadership and it's obvious that the captaincy decision was something that Kidney, himself and BOD talked about with POC definitely taking more responsibility on the paddock. Also the dynamic maul showed that with a little bit of clever coaching the maul is far from dead. Only negative would be the fringe attack which was quite static, work needed there.
Back-row
Know Jamie Heaslip's family very well so a bit biased here but that was simply the best number 8 performance from an Irish player that I can remember, the Lions 8 beckons, repaid Kidney's faith in buckets. Ferris complimented him well and Wallace put in a huge effort at the break-down something that I have found him wanting in the past. A bit slow getting away from the scrum and our link play would be a worry.
Half-backs
Solid if unspectacular, O'leary's box kicks were too deep and O'Gara's kicking was poor but passing from hand from both was crisp and gave good service to our outside backs. Again O'Gara's defence is very suspect really needs a challenger to his position.
Midfield
Wallace was solid, defence was good but with France dominating possession couldn't demonstrate his skills. Worth keeping for the Italy game. O'Driscoll, had to laugh at people writing this guy off, simply Ireland's best player ever and yesterday he showed why.
Back 3
Kearney looked to the manor born and as ex-Louth minor he fielded balls Paddy Keenan would have been proud off. His kicking was poor but he's left ankle was injured during the week and as a left footer this was always going to be an issue. Bowe had a solid game, one great line break for Heaslip's try and a try saving tackle on Chabal. Fitzgearld did well but is not a winger, 13 is his position going forward.
Over-all a great win and Kidney will be happy as he'll have a lot to work on this week, onwards on upwards.
Credit to France but one can't help but think if the French applied a little bit more structure in our half they could have won this game. And that 1st French try was pure magic, won't see a better try all year.
Finally while it was easy to come across tickets for this game, a win next week will see demand go through the roof for the England game, let's hope we don't mess up next week.
Quote from: Main Street on February 08, 2009, 11:48:11 AM
I can't figure out the complaints about kicking possession away.
Kidney had his game plan worked out to the nth degree of perfection by the players on the pitch.
I'm not so sure about that. If anything, I think Kidney changed tactics when he realised that kicking the ball straight to a dangerous French backline wasn't working. Ireland looked a more effective unit when they simply ran at the French. I think the game yesterday showed how much rugby has changed in Ireland. Gone are the days when to defeat the French, Ireland had to keep things tight and look for territory by kicking to the corners. To see Ireland beat France playing such expansive rugby was great to see.
it did not look to me that the kicking game changed. It was used throughout with varying frequencies. If Kidney was displeased with the effect he would have instructed otherwise. Players were ready to give chase.
Looked to me that the O'Gara option, kicking to the line, was purposely ignored.
Ireland were effective when running at the French when safely in the French half.
Dinny, I presume the best player ever in the midfield is directed at O'Driscoll rather than Wallace :D
Anyhow, I agree with most of what you've said, although I think this current vogue for picking on O'Gara is being overdone a little on here. It's probably the product of the direct opposite from Hook and co, but I don't think O'Gara is a bad an outhalf as some lads on here seem to think. He was never the world's greatest tackler, but he doesn't shirk them. You can't coach size after all.
The worry for me about ROG is the new ELVs. For Munster, and Ireland, the tactical kicking out of hand has changed, and it will take him a while to bed down. I still like his passing, and I like his low, line drive kicks which he still executes well. He's having an average time of it kicking for goal, but that will come again. He's far from a liability.
Anyone heading to the England game? I've my ticket ready to go. Was giving out about the price last week, a win in Rome next weekend and I won't care about €90 in the slightest :D
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on February 08, 2009, 02:14:21 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 07, 2009, 09:03:17 PM
Excellent display today. The team looked balanced for the first time in a number of years, with no square pegs in round holes.
The GAA - I've never understood the hype about O'Gara. I don't think he particularly excels at any aspect of a no.10's game, and in some areas like tackling and line-breaking, he is downright dismal. And unless his pack gives him an armchair ride, he can't dominate a game.
As with a brave few here, I'm just an armchair rugby fan but surely O'Gara's kicking is world class (albeit that he missed a couple today).
What did the Rugby men on the board think of the referee? Was Hook correct to say he was very biased towards Ireland?
Hard to tell from where I was sitting but RTE.ie in their pre match prediction did say something along the lines of Ireland couldn't have gotten a better referee for this game as he rarely imposes technical fouls choosing instead to look at the intent behind a players actions. Not sure if I would agree with that on yesterdays performance but again didnt have a great view of some of the incidents
Cheers AZ for spotting that, have edited :P
Not having a go at O'Gara per se, moreso at the selection policy over-all, if you look at Heaslip's performance was it a co-incidence he was so good and Leamy sitting on the bench. Likewise BOD now has Fitzgrearld, D'Arcy, Wallace and Cave all looking for a midfield slot and all are playing well. O'Gara has more competition in Munster than he does in Ireland, when Humphs senior was challenging O'Gara rose to the contest and he's simply not raising his game anymore, just a concern of my mine plus I have to admit O'Gara is a bit mouthy and that annoys me too.
Part of the game-plan was obviously to kick the ball to France and force them to play, prior to this game most teams would have just kicked the ball back but France ran it back brilliantly and I think we adjusted by not kicking as deep and getting our line defence up quicker.
Also have tickets for the England game and I've been whinging like f*ck about the price too, delighted I have them now though...
In fairness as regards rugby more than other sport a team has to adapt to the referee's interpretation. The Irish guys would have Owens week in week out in the Magners League plus he refs a lot of the Munster European games, being a top ref and all that. We had an advantage before the game and Kidney to his credit had his use and we were playing on the edge but discipline was excellent and in fairness it was a fanastic game of rugby and credit has to go to the ref for that. Hook is a knob and hasn't clue, he's just the Spillane of rugby puditry.....
We'll have to meet up for a pint so...
The problem with O'Gara is not that he is poor, but that he is more and more prone to poor displays, yet still seems untouchable in the eyes of the Irish management and media. As mooted above, I don't think any of his quaities are so distinct that even when on form, he should be untouchable.
Since O'Sullivan made ROG his clear number one, I can only recall one game that O'Gara did not play every important minute of; that against the Pacific Islands, when Wallace started, and kicked something like 10 out of 11, and had a hand in couple of tries. Wallace's reward for that performance was to watch almost every minute of every game since.
I'm not suggesting Wallace is a better player, or even that he is capable of playing international fly-half. It's just that along with Sexton and Humphreys Jr, he'll never find out unless O'Gara suffers a serious injury. So until that happens, we will continue to be fed the (in my opinion) bullsh1t line from the media that O'Gara is irreplaceable.
Any room on the Irish bandwagon?
Quote from: Hound on February 08, 2009, 07:49:59 AM
What a game!
When we kicked possession away, France caused us all sorts of problems, but when we ran with it we were superb. Took us a fair long time to figure it out, but when we did we were superb. (Hope Cheika too note)
Strong performances throughout the team, but Heaslip and O'Driscoll were supreme.
Kearney's leg/ankle didnt look too clever, so I doubt he'll be ready for Italy. Paddy Wallace's face/head looked really sore (not sure what happened) and Darce did well so that'll be a decision for Kidney.
Kearney loooked alright last night when I saw him after 12 0'clock with Geordan Murphy and Bowe. It looked like they were about to head out for a night on the tiles, so the leg couldn't have been that bad. He didn't have the manner of someone who had been told he was ruled out of the next game he seemed in good form.
Great game and some fantastic performances all round. I thought the french flanker was ahead of the ball when it was chipped ahead in the run up to the first try?
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 08, 2009, 04:20:18 PM
In the 3 games this season, O'Gara has been a weak link. Against NZ he fed them the ball with every kick. Yesterday, he was at the same. His kicking is poor apart from the low grubber kick which he manages maybe 1/2 times a game. Even in Thomond Park his magical goal scoring is beginning to breakdown. His kicking to touch from penalties is getting shorter. It's a natural decline with age and falling prowess that affects everyone.
I can't see Kidney dropping O'Gara, if necessary he will change the game plan to keep him on the field and accept his declining percentages.
O Gara's kicking has definitely declined in recent years.
When he first came on the scene for Ireland, several times in a game, he could put kicks in from inside his own half that would bounce into touch in the opposition's 22.
Nowadays, you'll notice that when he is kicking for touch from a penalty, he has to kick the ball at a 45 degree angle towards the touchline and gains very little distance.
I never considered him in the same league of Carter, Wilkinson etc and a some of his reputation is down to the Munster tendency to big up everything and anything from the province, but you have to wonder about the paucity of possible replacements coming through. I don't think Paddy Wallace would be up to scratch in the role.
Ara I'm sick of this 'the only reason people say he's good is he's from Munster' shite. Ronan O'Gara is one of the main reasons why Munster qualified for 4 European Cup Finals and won 2 of them. You may have issues with Munster's 'hype' and the idiotic ravings of fellas in the media who, by the way, will be the first to stick the knife in when Munster fall on their faces, as they will. Munster play the media very well, but they don't tell them what to write, and if the performances were as bad as ye seem to think, every writer in the country would be having a pop.
I don't have an issue with people dissecting his game, or anyone's game, with critical analysis, and I will say that I agree that this season especially O'Gara is struggling at times, and he has had stinkers in the past for Ireland, like everyone else but the man has consistently delivered in big games for both Ireland and Munster over the past 10 years almost.
However to say he is rated because Munster 'big up' themselves is churlish in the extreme, and reflects badly on your argument. Which Munster players, or coaches, bigs themselves or the team up? They are notorious for quite the opposite, especially under Kidney. Does Paul O'Connell or Bull or Horan or O'Callaghan or anybody else ever be in media talking about how good they are? If so, I haven't seen it.
It's like the reverse situation of lads who haven't a good word to say about Brian O'Driscoll because he's from Leinster, and it is because O'Gara has been outspoken at times, and is the exception to the rule in Munster. He's not afraid to put his reputation on the line, and if he fails, as he has done, he comes back for more. If you can't see that O'Gara has been one of the better out halves in the northern hemisphere for at least 5 years, I think you are letting your 'anti' Munster bias cloud your judgment.
personally i don't have an antii munster biias, far from it. i think o'gara is just short of international class, as fantastic as he is for his club.
i would take issue with the assertion that he has consistently performed in big games for ireland, quite the contrary inho.
the world cup last year was the real stage when ireland needed him to deliver and he failed miserably. granted, he was not on his own but he was particularly poor. he has also malfunctioned spectacularly in big 6 nations games, particularly the welsh game.
one thing i can't understand is why such a fantastic tactical kicker at club level is so poor in the same regard for his country?
Great result for Ireland - very pleased with the team performance - only thing that annoyed me was the amount of 'box' kicks O'Leary was doing - overall though good to get a win and hopefully be able to back it up with a good performance in Rome and start building momentum - concerned about this brutal Mitre ball is it i think they use in Rome - o'gara has struggled with it kicking wise before but if they play bergamsco at scrum half we'll be landed..... :D :D
What is international class? Is Andy Goode international class? Or Stephen Jones? Or Bauxise(sp?)
Or are you judging him by say, Dan Carter and Johnny Wilkinson in his prime?
Look, I'd be the first to admit that O'Gara needs good ball, but what outhalf doesn't? I'd also admit his tackling is poor enough, but at least he tries to tackle.
I think that if you weighed up his good games versus his bad games for Ireland over the past 5 or 6 years, he's had more good than bad. The World Cup was obviously a low, low point, but every single player was cat then.
How many games has his boot won for Ireland? How many points has he scored? He has scored tries, kicked for position and kicked goals well for a long time, and his passing is often ignored, but it brings the other backs into it very well. See how flat his passes for Heaslip and O'Driscoll were yesterday? That means the man coming onto the ball can explode through the first tackle, rather than being lined up from a deeper position.
I'll never claim he's the best outhalf to have ever played the game, nor even the best Irish out half, but I'd contend that over the whole of his career, with Ireland and Munster, he's proved himself a bloody good one, and the Munster bandwagon would still be stuck in the station if it wasn't for his contribution alongside the others.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2009, 08:59:11 PM
If you can't see that O'Gara has been one of the better out halves in the northern hemisphere for at least 5 years, I think you are letting your 'anti' Munster bias cloud your judgment.
That's hardly much of an achievement in fairness, given the amount of NH rugby nations that are actually any good.
I don't think he warrants the hype. Brian O'Driscoll for example genuinely compares to the best centres in the world, and on occasion has been considered the best in his position.
O'Gara doesn't stand up to the really top drawer no 10s in my view.
So who is better? What standard are we judging him by?
I know Dan Carter, and Jonny Wilkinson in his pomp were/are better. What about Michelak? Contempomi? Hernandez? Skrtel? Bauxise? Stephen Jones?
I know on a bad day O'Gara can be really bad, but I'd not have had any of those 'what abouts' before him.
So if he's not 'international class' then there are very few who are.
And by the way, when you say O'Driscoll has 'on occasion been considered the best in the world at his position', who considered him that? The media? The pundits? The very same people who praise O'Gara in other words? Or does that only count against you if you are bigged up from Munster?
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 08, 2009, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2009, 08:59:11 PM
If you can't see that O'Gara has been one of the better out halves in the northern hemisphere for at least 5 years, I think you are letting your 'anti' Munster bias cloud your judgment.
That's hardly much of an achievement in fairness, given the amount of NH rugby nations that are actually any good.
I don't think he warrants the hype. Brian O'Driscoll for example genuinely compares to the best centres in the world, and on occasion has been considered the best in his position.
O'Gara doesn't stand up to the really top drawer no 10s in my view.
There was definitely a time a couple of years ago when he was probably the best 10 in the NH. He was superb in the 2007 6 Nations for example when he scored a try in every single game but one. Had Ireland hung on for 30 more seconds against France and won the GS he would probably have gotten player of the tournament that year. Hasn't really reached those levels since though. The World Cup was obviously a disaster while his form for Ireland since has been up and down.
And the south. I know a few Kearneys and they are pronounced Carney as well. I dunno why he fell though, maybe the ghost of Michael Hogan tripped him up? :D
I think O'Gara's game with regard to out of hand kicking has suffered a bit with the ELVs as well. In fact I think all out halves have, but it was such a staple of his that it's noticeable. Defenses are expecting kicks now a lot more, and are playing a bit deeper at wing and full back, so the little knock over the top that bounces into touch is harder to execute. Also the fact that a ball passed back over the '22 is not allowed go out on the full means a lot more kicking up the middle.
He hasn't really adapted to that yet, but on those occasions when the defence is flat, after a turnover or a lot of phases, O'Gara can still ping the corners at times. It's just not as often these days, and it looks like poor kicking.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2009, 09:22:39 PM
And by the way, when you say O'Driscoll has 'on occasion been considered the best in the world at his position', who considered him that? The media? The pundits? The very same people who praise O'Gara in other words? Or does that only count against you if you are bigged up from Munster?
O'Driscoll has been nominated for world player of the year and was made Lions captain in 2005.
To my memory O'Gara hasn't been decorated in the same manner. For several years, he hadn't even nailed down the starting position on the Ireland team.
My belief that his profile is high because he is surfing the crest of the Munster factor.
I still stand by the ascertion that Munster rugby, hurling, soccer and everything else tend to overhyped and mostly from within and that O'Gara's elevated status is just another manifestion of this.
This is not something I came with on a whim and funnily enough it isn't a unique view either.
Again I ask you, who other than media is overhyping anything to do with Munster? Unless you mean fans? Are Munster fans capable of having observers from all over the NH come to the same conclusion about O'Gara. Come off it now.
O'Gara hadn't nailed down his position because a) he was young and b) Humphrey's wasn't a bad player himself.
Since he has nailed it down he has been a good player for Ireland, and recognised as such by commentators from other parts as well, not just Munster fans or Irish media.
And he is one of the reasons why Munster are on this 'crest' you mention.
I'll not contest that Munster are over hyped in the media, but that's a bizarre reason to talk down one of the key players for Munster and Ireland. Ask Brian O'Driscoll what O'Gara means to that team.
Don't let your hatred of Munster hurling or soccer cloud you on the individual merits of one of their rugby players, just because he is a Langer :D
AZ - the funny thing in all your argument is that apart from not being built like a beer keg, O'Gara offers no improvement over Andy Goode. And this is where the media play their part. While O'Gara is lauded by the Irish media for leading Munster's charge, Goode is ridiculed by the Irish media for playing an almost identical role for one of the biggest clubs in England. I don't get it.
My last point on all this is that while your list of inconsistent internationals below have had careers where they've continually been dropped, replaced and substituted when off form, Ronan O'Gara has not. Instead, he's had a free run at performing to whatever level he's up to for the best part of 50 odd games.
The only other top nation fly-halves who've had an unqualified hold of their jersey during that time have been Wilkinson, Carter and Larkham. Three men who simply dwarf the Munster man's abilities. Three men who've consistently been on top of their game. Spot the anomaly yet?
O'Gara is not only lauded by the Irish media wobbler. Plenty of commentators across the NH agree that he is a fine fly half, especially over the last 5-6 years.
I'm not saying O'Gara is one of the best in the world, although I'm not that sure Larkham is that much better.
What I do know is that O'Gara has been immense for Munster in their European campaigns, and has been a good player for Ireland as well. It's not his fault that there's no serious opposition for his jersey, and I don't think it's fair to criticise him for that.
O'Gara is Ireland's top point scorer, the HEC top points scorer, has 2 European medals and 2 runners up medals. He didn't get all that by being a weak link.
As for your contention about Andy Goode, I think that's nuts. O'Gara is a much better passer than Goode, a much better goal kicker, and a much better game manager when he is in the groove. Goode is a poor man's O'Gara.
Quotethink O'Gara's game with regard to out of hand kicking has suffered a bit with the ELVs as well. In fact I think all out halves have, but it was such a staple of his that it's noticeable. Defenses are expecting kicks now a lot more, and are playing a bit deeper at wing and full back, so the little knock over the top that bounces into touch is harder to execute. Also the fact that a ball passed back over the '22 is not allowed go out on the full means a lot more kicking up the middle.
Great observation AZ and I agree it has affected his game. However on another point Larkham was a superb talent and simply the best distributor of a rugby ball I have ever seen ROG is not in that class but he is a good International out-half who is lacking competition and I agree that is not his fault but it is something that Kidney will have to work on and in fairness he brought Warwick in to Munster and he provides tremendous competition to ROG so I'm sure he's thinking about it. I suppose anyone involved in team sport hate to see anyone guaranteed their place, I mean competition for places is vibrate for any team sport, the Cats been the best example of that and a lot of our frustration with O'Gara stems from that.
Funnily enough I often thought the same for Hayes but these days I just sit back and admire that man, we won't know what have there till he's gone...
Im with AZ on this one whilst I didnt think hes had his best games for Ireland recently I think he is an excellent player. If I remember correctly I think I said at one stage after last years 6 nations that to me he looked like the only player playing consistently world class rugby. Mind you I may be wrong as I try to blank out last years 6 nations as much as possible
Quote from: David McKeown on February 08, 2009, 11:41:05 PM
Im with AZ on this one whilst I didnt think hes had his best games for Ireland recently I think he is an excellent player. If I remember correctly I think I said at one stage after last years 6 nations that to me he looked like the only player playing consistently world class rugby. Mind you I may be wrong as I try to blank out last years 6 nations as much as possible
I think its wrong to say O'Gara is a bad player but when people compare him to Dan Carter or Johnny Wilko (his form before his injuries) is just ridiculous and laughable. There is no doubt he seem to play great when he has the Munster safety net but once he steps onto the international stage he is shown to be a good player but not a great player!
Due to not been in the country I didnt get to see the game but my Father and Uncle was at it. Dad bought one of them Ref miics but it wouldnt work and was getting some news station?
Anyone else at the game have this problem?
O'Gara is a good international out half. Playing for Munster he is usually outstanding. He is always picked for Ireland because he is realisitically the only show in town. I cannot see Sexton being good enough for Leinster, never mind Ireland. Young Humphreys might be the man to take over, looks to have lots of potential.
Quote from: Joxer on February 09, 2009, 10:38:47 AM
Due to not been in the country I didnt get to see the game but my Father and Uncle was at it. Dad bought one of them Ref miics but it wouldnt work and was getting some news station?
Anyone else at the game have this problem?
Yup, they were bolloxed for the whole game.
Best rugby match I have been at for a long while. The pack were superb, with Heaslip and O'Connell particularly leading the line. The amount of lineout ball that POC called on himseld in the second half was unreal. He gave ROG a well deserved rollocking too at one point after another loose kick. Definitely Lions captain material IMHO. Great to see such a big support over from France for the game also, really added to a superb occassion.
And to the 3 rugby intellects sitting around me in section 510 of the Cusack stand -
Stade Francis is the rugby club in Paris; Paris St Germain is the soccer club ::)
joxer i may be wrong but I think you have to be at the game to benefit from one of those ref mics!
Must say i was very surprised by the French support, in numbers and in character! We went to the bridge bar on amien st after the match and it was at least 60% french, they were mighty craic (think they were all Bretons). They had bagpipes with them and were singing away for the night.
Would love to see the reaction if they went tot he same bar on a normal Saturday night!
It was great to see the back line moving with some purpose again when we decided to hold on to the ball and not kick it away as covered earlier in the thread. On a seperate issue, does Jonathan Davies bug the sh1te out of any other posters? I know it's difficult when your own country are playing but the cheerleading style of commentary really got my goat. It was either him or Ryle Nugent! Not good!
Quote from: Overthebar! on February 09, 2009, 11:40:03 AM
joxer i may be wrong but I think you have to be at the game to benefit from one of those ref mics!
My father was at it, the earpiece wasnt working
Quote from: ludermor on February 09, 2009, 11:44:00 AM
Must say i was very surprised by the French support, in numbers and in character! We went to the bridge bar on amien st after the match and it was at least 60% french, they were mighty craic (think they were all Bretons). They had bagpipes with them and were singing away for the night.
Would love to see the reaction if they went tot he same bar on a normal Saturday night!
There has been a huge colourful French support coming for decades. I went to a game at Lansdowne as a kid (the Johnny Moroney game), wild clothes, leather wine containers, you even had those Gallic Roosters running wild around the pitch.
Must have been some sight at Dublin Airport coming through passport control with La Coq under the arm.
Quote from: ludermor on February 09, 2009, 11:44:00 AM
Must say i was very surprised by the French support, in numbers and in character! We went to the bridge bar on amien st after the match and it was at least 60% french, they were mighty craic (think they were all Bretons). They had bagpipes with them and were singing away for the night.
Would love to see the reaction if they went tot he same bar on a normal Saturday night!
There were loads of them about alright. Thought with the recession their numbers might be down but no. They know how to enjoy themselves alright. We passed a group on Jones' Road before the game eating baguettes and quaffing from a bottle of champagne.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2009, 09:22:39 PM
So who is better? What standard are we judging him by?
I know Dan Carter, and Jonny Wilkinson in his pomp were/are better. What about Michelak? Contempomi? Hernandez? Skrtel? Bauxise? Stephen Jones?
I know on a bad day O'Gara can be really bad, but I'd not have had any of those 'what abouts' before him.
So if he's not 'international class' then there are very few who are.
And by the way, when you say O'Driscoll has 'on occasion been considered the best in the world at his position', who considered him that? The media? The pundits? The very same people who praise O'Gara in other words? Or does that only count against you if you are bigged up from Munster?
Very shoddy last paragraph.
But you are dead right that O'Gara is a better out half than Skrtel. Though I think Rafa might give him a go in that position next week.
I'm not questioning O'Driscoll's standing in the game at all. The point I was (poorly) trying to make was that the same people who laud O'Driscoll also find O'Gara to be a good player. Why is it that only O'Gara's is considered to be a result of some sinister conspiracy to paint all things Munster as being great?
No way am I digging at O'Driscoll, I've been one of his constant admirers.
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2009, 12:56:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2009, 09:22:39 PM
So who is better? What standard are we judging him by?
I know Dan Carter, and Jonny Wilkinson in his pomp were/are better. What about Michelak? Contempomi? Hernandez? Skrtel? Bauxise? Stephen Jones?
I know on a bad day O'Gara can be really bad, but I'd not have had any of those 'what abouts' before him.
So if he's not 'international class' then there are very few who are.
And by the way, when you say O'Driscoll has 'on occasion been considered the best in the world at his position', who considered him that? The media? The pundits? The very same people who praise O'Gara in other words? Or does that only count against you if you are bigged up from Munster?
Very shoddy last paragraph.
But you are dead right that O'Gara is a better out half than Skrtel. Though I think Rafa might give him a go in that position next week.
Good spot :D I meant Skrela of course :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2009, 12:59:07 PM
I'm not questioning O'Driscoll's standing in the game at all. The point I was (poorly) trying to make was that the same people who laud O'Driscoll also find O'Gara to be a good player. Why is it that only O'Gara's is considered to be a result of some sinister conspiracy to paint all things Munster as being great?
No way am I digging at O'Driscoll, I've been one of his constant admirers.
Well in the southern hemisphere they think O'Gara is shíte, but they concede O'Driscoll at his best was the best around.
However, they also don't rate O'Connell, so I think that would be a better comparison for you.
O'Gara's not even that popular among his own teammates, so he's always probably always going to get more slagging than he deserves, as he can be a bit of a tosser.
I remember being in Cardiff the last time we beat Wales over there, and he was singled out for heaps of abuse by the Welsh fans in my vicinity. Though he answered it (not that he heard it!) with a try and probably one of his best performances.
There's no doubt he makes a rod for his own back with some of the stuff he says, and the way he appears, but again, that's not really a reason to act as if Ireland would be better off if he stayed at home in Cork for the 6 Nations.
I know they don't rate him down in NZ and Australia, but they prefer a different style of outhalf in any case.
i wouldnt know a great deal about rugby, never played a game in my life, but one thing i wondered on saturday was why o'leary kept kicking the ball aimlessly down the pitch. a couple of times it worked but more times than not it just conceded good possession.
maybe someone that knows a bit more about the game could shed some light on it.
Quote from: behind the wire on February 09, 2009, 01:13:52 PM
i wouldnt know a great deal about rugby, never played a game in my life, but one thing i wondered on saturday was why o'leary kept kicking the ball aimlessly down the pitch. a couple of times it worked but more times than not it just conceded good possession.
maybe someone that knows a bit more about the game could shed some light on it.
Kidney's tactics. Playing into the wind, they thought it best not to arse about in our half but get the ball into the French half and try to keep them hemmed in. Didnt work, and they changed tack after about 20 mins and mixed it up a lot more to very good effect.
I think you're spot on there Hound. The problem was that that's bun to an elephant when the French are in the mood to run from anywhere, which they often are. At least they learned and changed. Don't be surprised if it's more of the same against Italy next week.
O'Leary was getting stick for doing that, but it's obviously something he was told to do.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2009, 01:30:52 PM
I think you're spot on there Hound. The problem was that that's bun to an elephant when the French are in the mood to run from anywhere, which they often are. At least they learned and changed. Don't be surprised if it's more of the same against Italy next week.
O'Leary was getting stick for doing that, but it's obviously something he was told to do.
I thought that was madness too, kicking the ball into the hands of the french backs was dicing with death, but thankfully the tactics did seem to change for the better.
As for the O'Gara debate, I don't think he can be considered one of the best outhalves in the NH as he never gets the nod for the first 15 for the Lions and is always a backup there either to Wilkinson or Stephen Jones.
That aside he is currently the best available to Ireland with only ian Humphries anywhere near pushing him and he's only making the B team, O'Gara is safe for another 6 nations campaign but I'd like to see him brush up on his tackling as much as anything else as that's where the first try came from on saturday evening. He's not the biggest but Stringer is smaller and has been able to hold his own in the tacking stakes against much bigger men.
A good start though as the French won't get beat again in this competition as I think they'll take the Welsh in Paris, Engerland and Scotland shouldn't pose much of a threat to France who handle the favourites tag much better than Ireland. Ireland need to be mindful of past poor performances against poor england teams even before thinking of Wales in the last game.
Stringers tackles are nearly always from behind, or hanging on to a breaking back rower like a terrier stuck into a doberman. O'Gara gets systematically targeted for crash ball runners, which is a different scenario altogether. O'Gara tries to tackle, but often times he gets run over. That's just how it is with him. At least he doesn't duck out of tackles or anything.
Watched the game on Saturday and I was impressed. Still a lot of work to do if we are to target a Championship or the GS. Wales look like they can turn on the style whenever they feel like it now and they are a year further in their development than us with massive competition for all positions which is something we don't quite have yet.
Hooke was lauding the choice of Wallace at 12 but I just don't think he's the man for the job. Too weak and small and given that he's beside O'Gara that is a massive target to hit and had France concentrated more on that channel they may well have won. Although D'Arcy is not long back I think his strength is something we need in there and he will allow O'Driscoll more time to concentrate on attacking which he can do to great effect if he's in the mood.
I thought the game had the mark of Kidney all over it. The French were flamboyant and threw the ball around a lot but our defence for the most part was solid and we were very efficient with the chances we had which is what you are looking for in a team at this stage in its development. I was very sceptical of our squad to start but I'm starting to feel a lot better about it now although I still think it is a bit old to be aiming for a WC in 3 years time.
Looking at the overall championship it would seem a toss up between Wales and Ireland at this stage although the French have the capability to cause an upset against the Welsh. The Championship should hopefully be tight and we have more than a fair shout of winning it so hopefully things go to plan over the next few weeks!
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2009, 02:14:51 PM
Stringers tackles are nearly always from behind, or hanging on to a breaking back rower like a terrier stuck into a doberman. O'Gara gets systematically targeted for crash ball runners, which is a different scenario altogether. O'Gara tries to tackle, but often times he gets run over. That's just how it is with him. At least he doesn't duck out of tackles or anything.
Stringer does enough to slow the man up enough for someone else to get them to ground whereas O'Gara seems to go chest high but isn't strong enough for the smother tackle. I don't expect o'Gara to be knocking men down like Wilkinson was in his pomp but he needs to do enough to allow the support to help him out.
One area where I thought Ireland excelled is an area where both Leinster and Munster have struggled badly this year. Giving away silly and needless penalties. Two penalties conceded in 80 minutes is a testament to our discipline on the day. The other five teams in the competition conceded 9, 9, 10, 10 and 13.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2009, 01:30:52 PM
I think you're spot on there Hound. The problem was that that's bun to an elephant when the French are in the mood to run from anywhere, which they often are. At least they learned and changed. Don't be surprised if it's more of the same against Italy next week.
O'Leary was getting stick for doing that, but it's obviously something he was told to do.
O'Leary cut down on his blind kicking but others continued with the use of the kick.in the 2nd half
Kicking was a deliberate Kidney tactic carried right throughout the game, just less so in the second half.
Probably some time in the game Kidney demanded a more effective kick with better closing down.
Kidneys tactics were an almost perfect utilisation of the talent available to him against a formidable dangerous opponent.
QuoteTwo penalties conceded in 80 minutes is a testament to our discipline on the day. The other five teams in the competition conceded 9, 9, 10, 10 and 13.
Think the ref had something to do with that as well though!!
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2009, 10:12:56 PM
Again I ask you, who other than media is overhyping anything to do with Munster? Unless you mean fans? Are Munster fans capable of having observers from all over the NH come to the same conclusion about O'Gara. Come off it now.
O'Gara hadn't nailed down his position because a) he was young and b) Humphrey's wasn't a bad player himself.
Since he has nailed it down he has been a good player for Ireland, and recognised as such by commentators from other parts as well, not just Munster fans or Irish media.
And he is one of the reasons why Munster are on this 'crest' you mention.
I'll not contest that Munster are over hyped in the media, but that's a bizarre reason to talk down one of the key players for Munster and Ireland. Ask Brian O'Driscoll what O'Gara means to that team.
Don't let your hatred of Munster hurling or soccer cloud you on the individual merits of one of their rugby players, just because he is a Langer :D
Well certainly, I'd be biased and probably wrong, but I just never really got why O'Gara is (or maybe used to be) vaunted as one of Ireland's premier sports stars.
In a sport where barely 10 international teams can even raise a gallop, he is mid table at best in the pecking order for his position. Off the top of my head, I could think of 8 or 9 international fly halves from the 00s who were better players than him. It'd be like someone been hailed as being the 5th or 6th best goalkeeper in the Ulster championship.
Keith Wood or Brian O'Driscoll were the real deal. They'd be worth their place on any of the World Cup winning sides, whereas if any former winners had O'Gara as their flyhalf, they probably wouldn't have won it.
France shuffle the pack
Lievremont makes four changes for Scotland clash
France have made four changes to the team which started the 30-21 defeat against Ireland for Saturday's RBS Six Nations match against Scotland in Paris.
Les Blues must beat Scotland to salvage any hopes of regaining the Six Nations championship they won in 2007 but missed out on last year.
Head coach Marc Lievremont has replaced Julien Malzieu on the left wing with Cedric Heymans in what is the only change in the back line.
Props Fabien Barcella and Nicolas Mas and lock Romain Millo-Chluski have also been called up in place of Lionel Faure, Benoit Lecouls and Sebastien Chabal in the pack.
Lionel Nallet is once again named captain, even though the Castres lock is struggling for form at the moment.
Lievremont gave Nallet the captain's armband when he took over as head coach after the 2007 World Cup and he has no intention of taking it off him.
"At no time have we envisaged changing our captain," Lievremont said.
"He is our captain. In no way is it a handicap to start him. We are very happy with his performance (against Ireland)."
France: 15 Clement Poitrenaud, 14 Maxime Medard, 13 Yannick Jauzion, 12 Florian Fritz, 11 Cedric Heymans, 10 Lionel Beauxis; 9 Sebastien Tillous-Borde; 8-Imanol Harinordoquy, 7 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 6 Thierry Dusautoir, 5 Lionel Nallet (capt), 4 Romain Millo-Chluski, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Fabien Barcella.
Replacements: 16 Benjamin Kayzer, 17 Renaud Boyoud, 18 Sebastien Chabal, 19 Louis Picamoles, 20 Morgan Parra, 21 Benoit Baby, 22 Julien Malzieu.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12321_4910096,00.html
Two changes for England
Noon and Armitage make way for new men
Martin Johnson has brought Joe Worsley and Mike Tindall into England's starting XV to play Wales on Saturday.
Wasps flanker Worsley came on as a substitute in the RBS Six Nations opener against Italy at the weekend.
Steffon Armitage made his international debut in that 36-11 triumph at Twickenham but failed to flourish and he has been dropped from the match squad altogether for the trip to face the defending champions.
Worsley, who plays predominantly as a blindside flanker, has been pressed into action in the number seven jersey following the loss of Tom Rees, Lewis Moody and Michael Lipman.
Strengths
Despite not having started a game for his country since the group stages of the 2007 World Cup, Worsley has shown his quality as an openside flanker before.
He starred most famously in the role out-playing the retiring Neil Back for Wasps against Leciester in the 2005 Guinness Premiership final and Johnson has no doubt he will fit the bill in Cardiff.
"Joe has been playing very well. He is a very experienced player, a big tackler and a big carrier. His form has been great all year, and we thought it was the right game for him to come and play," Johnson said.
"It was a tough call. Steffon played there last week. He has taken his first step in international rugby and he has a bright future.
"But we think Joe is the right guy for what we want to do."
Battle
Tindall has recovered from a back injury, meanwhile, and replaces Jamie Noon at outside centre.
"It is nice to have him back - and we hope he will last until Saturday," quipped Johnson.
"We know as a squad we can play better than we did last week. It is about improving.
"I am looking forward to going away from home, and the pressure and intensity will be a big test for our team.
"The Welsh enjoy having a successful rugby team, and they are playing some attractive rugby - so it will be doubly difficult.
"We don't have that much expectation - and we need to go there and fight. We can also play - but we need to battle and quieten the crowd down."
Toby Flood takes over from Shane Geraghty on the bench after recovering from a calf injury, while Paul Hodgson provides cover at scrum-half in place of Ben Foden and Luke Narraway replaces Worsley.
Grand Slam champions Wales began the defence of their title with a 26-13 win away to Scotland at Murrayfield on Sunday and are set to name their team on Thursday.
England team: 15 D Armitage (London Irish) 14 P Sackey (Wasps), 13 M Tindall (Gloucester), 12 R Flutey (Wasps), 11 M Cueto (Sale Sharks), 10 A Goode (Brive), 9 H Ellis (Leicester), 8 N Easter (Harlequins), 7 J Worsley (Wasps), 6 J Haskell (Wasps), 5 N Kennedy (London Irish), 4 S Borthwick (Saracens, capt), 3 P Vickery (Wasps), 2 L Mears (Bath), 1 A Sheridan (Sale Sharks).
Replacements: 16 D Hartley (Northampton), 17 J White (Leicester), 18 T Croft (Leicester), 19 L Narraway (Gloucester), 20 P Hodgson (London Irish), 21 T Flood(Leicester), 22 M Tait (Sale Sharks).
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12321_4910518,00.html
link to download
http://www.irishtorrents.com/torrents.php?id=1824 (http://www.irishtorrents.com/torrents.php?id=1824)
Quote from: Joxer on February 09, 2009, 12:00:22 PM
Quote from: Overthebar! on February 09, 2009, 11:40:03 AM
joxer i may be wrong but I think you have to be at the game to benefit from one of those ref mics!
My father was at it, the earpiece wasnt working
The buggers 90 euros for a ticket and 10 euros for one of those things as well. I fell into the same trap.
Quote from: behind the wire on February 09, 2009, 01:13:52 PM
i wouldnt know a great deal about rugby, never played a game in my life, but one thing i wondered on saturday was why o'leary kept kicking the ball aimlessly down the pitch. a couple of times it worked but more times than not it just conceded good possession.
maybe someone that knows a bit more about the game could shed some light on it.
I have played a bit of rugby and no sorry I can't answer the question as to why he did it so much. I wouldn't have done it but we did win the game.
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2009, 01:09:45 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2009, 12:59:07 PM
I'm not questioning O'Driscoll's standing in the game at all. The point I was (poorly) trying to make was that the same people who laud O'Driscoll also find O'Gara to be a good player. Why is it that only O'Gara's is considered to be a result of some sinister conspiracy to paint all things Munster as being great?
No way am I digging at O'Driscoll, I've been one of his constant admirers.
Well in the southern hemisphere they think O'Gara is shíte, but they concede O'Driscoll at his best was the best around.
However, they also don't rate O'Connell, so I think that would be a better comparison for you.
O'Gara's not even that popular among his own teammates, so he's always probably always going to get more slagging than he deserves, as he can be a bit of a t**ser.
I remember being in Cardiff the last time we beat Wales over there, and he was singled out for heaps of abuse by the Welsh fans in my vicinity. Though he answered it (not that he heard it!) with a try and probably one of his best performances.
Well if they don't rate O'Connell they don't know anything about the game. Apart from a few knock ons the guy is pretty much perfect.
Quote from: Capt Pat on February 11, 2009, 01:31:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2009, 01:09:45 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2009, 12:59:07 PM
I'm not questioning O'Driscoll's standing in the game at all. The point I was (poorly) trying to make was that the same people who laud O'Driscoll also find O'Gara to be a good player. Why is it that only O'Gara's is considered to be a result of some sinister conspiracy to paint all things Munster as being great?
No way am I digging at O'Driscoll, I've been one of his constant admirers.
Well in the southern hemisphere they think O'Gara is shíte, but they concede O'Driscoll at his best was the best around.
However, they also don't rate O'Connell, so I think that would be a better comparison for you.
O'Gara's not even that popular among his own teammates, so he's always probably always going to get more slagging than he deserves, as he can be a bit of a t**ser.
I remember being in Cardiff the last time we beat Wales over there, and he was singled out for heaps of abuse by the Welsh fans in my vicinity. Though he answered it (not that he heard it!) with a try and probably one of his best performances.
Well if they don't rate O'Connell they don't know anything about the game. Apart from a few knock ons the guy is pretty much perfect.
Indeed, but he has never done himself justice when playing in the southern hemisphere. I expect that to change on the Lions tour.
The Ireland team to play Italy in the RBS 6 Nations has been announced
Both Paddy Wallace and Jerry Flannery have been passed fit after picking up injuries in the France game and take up their positions at centre and hooker.
Captain Brian O'Driscoll will be earning his 90th cap in the Italy game and Prop John Hayes will equal the Irish cap record of 91 appearances of his fellow squad member Malcolm O'Kelly.
Winger Tommy Bowe will be picking up his 20th cap while Geordan Murphy could pick up his 60th cap if he makes an appearence off the bench on Sunday.
IRELAND TEAM & REPLACEMENTS (v Italy , 2009 RBS 6 Nations Championship, Stadio Flaminio, Sunday, February 15):
15 - Robert Kearney (UCD - Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD - Leinster) (capt)
12 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena - Ulster)
11 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College - Leinster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution - Munster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin - Munster)
1 - Marcus Horan (Shannon - Munster)
2 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon - Munster)
3 - John Hayes (Bruff- Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution - Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster - Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon - Ulster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen - Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas - Leinster)
Replacements:
16 - Rory Best (Banbridge - Ulster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone - Ulster)
18 - Malcolm O'Kelly (St. Mary's College - Leinster)
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution - Munster)
20 - Peter Stringer (Shannon - Munster)
21 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne - Leinster)
22 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester)
Good. Deccie is going with a relatively settled team. D'Arcy is unlucky to not make it, but Paddy Wallace doesn't deserve to be dropped on Saturday's match, especially in the circumstances he had to leave. That sort of thing breeds loyalty among players.
Having said that, Kidney has shown a hard edge down the years at Munster, and the likes of Anthony Foley will tell you what he thinks of sentimentality. So if changes need to be made, he'll make them.
Other than that, O'Leary will learn the more game time he gets, and there's no way either Heaslip or Ferris were in danger after last week, so Leamy will be chawing at the bit to get on again, which can only be a good thing.
I'd seriously doubt D'Arcy has 80 minutes in him at present. It would make more sense to use his manouverability against tiring defences, rather than from the start, so this is the right decision in my book. Besides, Wallace's kicking game should take pressure off ROG, who'll be bearing the brunt of the Italian blitzes.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 11, 2009, 01:25:57 PM
Good. Deccie is going with a relatively settled team. D'Arcy is unlucky to not make it, but Paddy Wallace doesn't deserve to be dropped on Saturday's match, especially in the circumstances he had to leave. That sort of thing breeds loyalty among players.
Having said that, Kidney has shown a hard edge down the years at Munster, and the likes of Anthony Foley will tell you what he thinks of sentimentality. So if changes need to be made, he'll make them.
Other than that, O'Leary will learn the more game time he gets, and there's no way either Heaslip or Ferris were in danger after last week, so Leamy will be chawing at the bit to get on again, which can only be a good thing.
Maybe we could put Leamy at scrum-half to even it up a bit?
This will be interesting tactically. The Italians are more likely to rush up in defense, as you say wobbler, so don't be surprised if O'Gara, O'Leary, and even the centres especially Wallace, have a decent day with their 'positional' kicking. Ireland will want to turn those Italians around and look to play in their half. It will be a different game to last weekend.
Quote from: muppet on February 11, 2009, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 11, 2009, 01:25:57 PM
Good. Deccie is going with a relatively settled team. D'Arcy is unlucky to not make it, but Paddy Wallace doesn't deserve to be dropped on Saturday's match, especially in the circumstances he had to leave. That sort of thing breeds loyalty among players.
Having said that, Kidney has shown a hard edge down the years at Munster, and the likes of Anthony Foley will tell you what he thinks of sentimentality. So if changes need to be made, he'll make them.
Other than that, O'Leary will learn the more game time he gets, and there's no way either Heaslip or Ferris were in danger after last week, so Leamy will be chawing at the bit to get on again, which can only be a good thing.
Maybe we could put Leamy at scrum-half to even it up a bit?
I was confused there for a minute :D I doubt Bergamasco will be picked there ever again.
Good to see points going on the board late in the game, that was a slightly tender right eye sitting in the bench!
Italy 9 - Ireland 38
final score
What a good result that was even if the performance wasn't brilliant. We are now in poll position for the 6 nations championship and I am pretty sure we will go into the final game against Wales unbeaten. I didn't hear Hook today but I suppose he said it was rubbish today but I thought it was acceptable.
Back to the game, O'Gara had one of his worst games in an Ireland shirt, O'Leary was better when he played there. O'gara has to remembeer he is there to kick and pass not run at the opposition. When we decided to play a bit of football we were much better than the Italians, they still don't know how to play the game. What aboth the 20 phases before Luke Fitzgeralds try, great stuff and a good try from Bow too.
Does anyone know what happened to Paddy Wallace, it looked like he got a bashing from the amount of cuts and bruises on his face.
Following their incessant moaning and calls for team changes, I'd suggest the pundits on RTE really have lost perspective of Irish rugby. Ireland won by 29 points in a competitive away match against a side boasting one of the best forward units in the game. They did so without ever looking like having their line breached, let alone conceding a try.
This isn't time for criticism, it's time for praise.
Yes, there were a number of poor handling errors. No, the backs never put too too many moves together. But when put in perspective, the handling errors were mostly enforced - then contained immediately, and the backs then showed a tremendous cutting edge when any opportunity arose. The point about the Italians is that they rarely if ever let backs do their business. They hit anything that moves, and hit it hard.
On a day when you needed your big, string forwards to lead the way, O'Connell, Ferris and Heaslip did exactly that.
One last thing for the rugby fellas on here. Every scrum-half in every game gets ridiculed by Hook and co. for their ponderous delivery. Except Stringer. Was there a golden age of scrum-halves with bullet-like deliveries that I somehow missed, that the modern players pale in comparision to? Or are Hook and co. being disingenuous by suggesting that the delivery of O'Leary, Boss et al is tortoise like.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 16, 2009, 01:31:58 PM
One last thing for the rugby fellas on here. Every scrum-half in every game gets ridiculed by Hook and co. for their ponderous delivery. Except Stringer. Was there a golden age of scrum-halves with bullet-like deliveries that I somehow missed, that the modern players pale in comparision to? Or are Hook and co. being disingenuous by suggesting that the delivery of O'Leary, Boss et al is tortoise like.
Stringer has arguably the best pass in Irish rugby but it's not in front/far in front of Reddan and O'Leary. Boss is actually quite slow and seems to take a step prior to passing which makes his pass slow in that the ball moves quickly yet it takes longer to commence moving. The difference between all these players and Stringer is that they offer more than just passing a ball and yapping at the referee. Apart from those Stringer is useless as everyone knows O'Gara's getting it and run like bats out of hell at him, putting him under pressure which he can't cope with and the knock on effect is f**king up one of the best back-lines in test rugby. Each of the three scrum-halves mentioned is better than Stringer yet he continues to get selected and game time. Unbelievable. Someone in an important IRFU role must be buckin his missus or him, there is surely no other reason for his continued selection.
I don't know much about rugby but the scrum half who only ever passes the ball to O'Gara didn't do too badly to score the winning try in a European final by capitalising on that perception of him.
Also, I appreciate O'Leary's footballing qualities, but it's surely a liability to the team that he takes more time over his passes than a kicker does with his place kicks. The opposition has enough time to take a rest, have a meeting, go for a slash and when they come back O'Leary is still thinking, pondering, wondering, planning - and then, unless he's inside the opposition 22 he'll kick it away anyhow. When Stringer comes on you can see the team immediately look more likely to score. That's how it looks to me anyway.
I think using Stringer as a sub is a good idea. I don't like him because of his weaknessess, but he did very well in his cameo role.
No way would I start him though ahead of either O'Leary or Reddan.
There are two sides to the coin Hardy. If the bulk of your team is capable of thinking quickly, reacting quickly and moving quickly, then having a scrum-half who can fire the ball out without assessing the situation fully is a bonus. In reality, you're not going to have a team capable of doing all that regularly against top-class opposition, so having someone who assesses the situation and releases set move after set move is no bad thing. I don't have any statistics, but I don't believe for one second that Ireland have become less potent in terms of creating breaks since he was removed from the starting position.
But this is getting away from my point. I can't think of any other scrum-half of note who releases a ball as quickly as Stringer - and as a direct result of this, all of the more complete Irish scrum-halves are being tarred with having a slow delivery by eminent commentators. They don't have a slow delivery... just a slower one than Stringer.
The thing is that of the highest level of scrum-halves - in recent years, the likes of Van Der Westhuizen, Gregan, Pichot, Dawson, Healey, Peel and Phillips - none of them zipped off quick passes like Stringer does. Not so much that they aren't/weren't capable, more because they weren't reliant on getting a quick pass away. In Gregan's case, I don't even know if he was capable, but he's still a legend in the position.
Quote from: Hardy on February 16, 2009, 03:52:25 PM
I don't know much about rugby but the scrum half who only ever passes the ball to O'Gara didn't do too badly to score the winning try in a European final by capitalising on that perception of him.
Stringer scored a good try against that team as he noticed the winger goes out of position. However, if by chance that winger had stayed in position, Stringer would have been made to look a complete mug whereas other scrum halves would maybe have carried it off anyway. As it happened it was a well taken try. Not worth basing his Ireland selection, and many many other caps on that though.
Quote from: Hardy on February 16, 2009, 03:52:25 PMAlso, I appreciate O'Leary's footballing qualities, but it's surely a liability to the team that he takes more time over his passes than a kicker does with his place kicks. The opposition has enough time to take a rest, have a meeting, go for a slash and when they come back O'Leary is still thinking, pondering, wondering, planning - and then, unless he's inside the opposition 22 he'll kick it away anyhow. When Stringer comes on you can see the team immediately look more likely to score. That's how it looks to me anyway.
Reddan is better than O'Leary in my opinion. Boss is better than O'Leary. O'Leary is better than Stringer.
I take your point though that with those mad Italians intent on tackling like gangs of dervishes all game, a good option may be someone who can shift the ball as far away from the pack as possible regardless of where or why the ball goes there. In that instance Stringer's forte would be applicable. However, against all other teams Stringer adds nothing these days at all. He would be 4th choice #9 in Ireland for me.
QuoteOne last thing for the rugby fellas on here. Every scrum-half in every game gets ridiculed by Hook and co. for their ponderous delivery. Except Stringer. Was there a golden age of scrum-halves with bullet-like deliveries that I somehow missed, that the modern players pale in comparision to? Or are Hook and co. being disingenuous by suggesting that the delivery of O'Leary, Boss et al is tortoise like.
Going back to the mid seventies I can think of two above average Irish scrum halves (Three if you count Kyran Bracken), Colm Patterson and John Robbie. Neither had particularly long careers so no, no golden age.
Quote from: Roger on February 16, 2009, 04:13:11 PM
However, if by chance that winger had stayed in position, Stringer would have been made to look a complete mug whereas other scrum halves would maybe have carried it off anyway.
We don't have any mountains in Meath, but if by chance we did, they'd be higher than your mountains (if you had any). :)
Quote from: passedit on February 16, 2009, 04:21:10 PM
Going back to the mid seventies I can think of two above average Irish scrum halves (Three if you count Kyran Bracken), Colm Patterson and John Robbie. Neither had particularly long careers so no, no golden age.
If this is the Colin Patterson who got three test caps for the Lions, I think only "above average" is a little stingy. I'm no fan of Instonians but I couldn't really say anything other than he was a brilliant scrum half.
Quote from: Hardy on February 16, 2009, 04:26:13 PM
Quote from: Roger on February 16, 2009, 04:13:11 PM
However, if by chance that winger had stayed in position, Stringer would have been made to look a complete mug whereas other scrum halves would maybe have carried it off anyway.
We don't have any mountains in Meath, but if by chance we did, they'd be higher than your mountains (if you had any). :)
???
Quote from: Roger on February 16, 2009, 04:29:20 PM
Quote from: passedit on February 16, 2009, 04:21:10 PM
Going back to the mid seventies I can think of two above average Irish scrum halves (Three if you count Kyran Bracken), Colm Patterson and John Robbie. Neither had particularly long careers so no, no golden age.
If this is the Colin Patterson who got three test caps for the Lions, I think only "above average" is a little stingy. I'm no fan of Instonians but I couldn't really say anything other than he was a brilliant scrum half.
The above average was more for Robbie than him tbh as i didn't think a list of 1 was particularly insightful. Any others?
Quote from: passedit on February 16, 2009, 04:46:24 PM
Quote from: Roger on February 16, 2009, 04:29:20 PM
Quote from: passedit on February 16, 2009, 04:21:10 PM
Going back to the mid seventies I can think of two above average Irish scrum halves (Three if you count Kyran Bracken), Colm Patterson and John Robbie. Neither had particularly long careers so no, no golden age.
If this is the Colin Patterson who got three test caps for the Lions, I think only "above average" is a little stingy. I'm no fan of Instonians but I couldn't really say anything other than he was a brilliant scrum half.
The above average was more for Robbie than him tbh as i didn't think a list of 1 was particularly insightful. Any others?
I liked Rob Saunders and thought he was a quality player
Aherne and Bradley were probably average enough but Chris Saveramutto and Conor McGuiness were shite.
Scrum-half Guide
By Ian Diddams
(A prop, who has played scrum half twice and ended up in hospital once because of it.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The scrum half is in essence the lynch pin of a rugby team. It is his or her function to link the awesome power of the pack with the lithe, silky skills of the three-quarters (via a poncy character known as a fly-half, but that's another guide for another day). Unless you are playing in New Zealand and Australia, where he is the only half back, and links the awesome power of the pack with a couple of math graduates that think they are slightly better than him, but not as good as the players outside themselves.
All very confusing. Which sums up scrum-half play in a nutshell. Should he pass? Should he kick? Should he run? And whichever tactic is chosen, he's guaranteed to upset at least two-thirds of his team as they would have done something completely different. (Especially the second rows, who never run anywhere anyway, can't pass for toffee, and wouldn't know how to kick if you asked them.) This is not helped by the schizophrenic nature of the scrum-half's position: is he a ninth forward, or an eighth back? Or perhaps a second ball (as often happens when playing behind a soundly-beaten pack)?
Scrum halves are always Napoleonic in stature. That is, short little bastards always causing strife, occasionally one-handed. They are very stroppy characters, always looking for a fight, and when having found one drags the nearest prop in to sort it out for him. They must have an A-level in niggling, treading on their opponents' feet and kicking loose-head props in the shins when the ref isn't looking.
Every scrum half is a frustrated No. 8. However, nature was cruel and only gave the player five foot two inches of height to use. This never stops scrum halves from playing like No. 8s when given the chance - i.e. running away from support on looping runs, and attempting to tackle the biggest player on the opposite side head on at pace.
The most important part of a scrum half is his mouth. This is so he can spend eighty minutes a week telling other players what they should be doing, especially the incredibly heroic props that arrive late to each ruck and maul because they have single-handedly just gotten up last from the previous one. A non-stop stream of advice can be heard from a scrum-half advising players of which opponent to tackle, where the ball is, where he wants it, which way to go, which arm to bite, etc. Great consternation and abuse will follow if these instructions are not followed instantaneously and fully. However, advice given to a scrum half, such as "pass right, three man overlap" will be studiously ignored, such as box-kicking, as the scrum half has a better vision of the game whilst being surrounded by large forwards than some silly nonce of a centre with nothing near him for twenty yards except an undefended goal line. The kick will be defended with the retort "I could see that their full back was out of position and I wanted to bury him to put him off his game."
Scrum halves are often described as terriers. This is because they are short little yappy things that leave their owners in the shit half the time, and smell.
Scrum halves must have a distinguishing feature. Welsh scrum halves must have large and ridiculous moustaches and sideburns. Scottish scrum halves must have hairy knees (not difficult being Scottish). Irish scrum halves must have foreign sounding names; they can never be called O'Reardon, or O'Reilly, or anything vaguely Irish. Like Paddy Guinness. English scrum halves must have a disabling limp (usually caused by an errant New Zealand flanker), or a stupid name. "Nigel" is a good start, and some have improved upon this with ridiculous double-barreled names like Wibblington-Skrunge, Twattingly-Bottom or Wankington-Toenails
Finally, your average scrum-half is a source, off the pitch, of constant amusement. He can be relied upon to get drunk before everyone else due to his small size, will be the first to lead the singing, and have a very handy party trick involving a balloon and his penis. He will also be the one member of a touring party that will have an embarrassing and totally hilarious encounter with a prostitute and a policeman.
Hope this is of some help.
But probably not...
Not Boss again ever please.
O'Leary is improving....a better break and tackle than other options IMO.
Quote from: Roger on February 16, 2009, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 16, 2009, 03:52:25 PM
I don't know much about rugby but the scrum half who only ever passes the ball to O'Gara didn't do too badly to score the winning try in a European final by capitalising on that perception of him.
Stringer scored a good try against that team as he noticed the winger goes out of position. However, if by chance that winger had stayed in position, Stringer would have been made to look a complete mug whereas other scrum halves would maybe have carried it off anyway. As it happened it was a well taken try. Not worth basing his Ireland selection, and many many other caps on that though.
Quote from: Hardy on February 16, 2009, 03:52:25 PMAlso, I appreciate O'Leary's footballing qualities, but it's surely a liability to the team that he takes more time over his passes than a kicker does with his place kicks. The opposition has enough time to take a rest, have a meeting, go for a slash and when they come back O'Leary is still thinking, pondering, wondering, planning - and then, unless he's inside the opposition 22 he'll kick it away anyhow. When Stringer comes on you can see the team immediately look more likely to score. That's how it looks to me anyway.
Reddan is better than O'Leary in my opinion. Boss is better than O'Leary. O'Leary is better than Stringer.
I take your point though that with those mad Italians intent on tackling like gangs of dervishes all game, a good option may be someone who can shift the ball as far away from the pack as possible regardless of where or why the ball goes there. In that instance Stringer's forte would be applicable. However, against all other teams Stringer adds nothing these days at all. He would be 4th choice #9 in Ireland for me.
I wouldn't let Isaac Boss carry the water bottles
Team for England named at lunctime. is wallace and d'arcy the only call to be made?
i think he'll go with the same starting 15 for the third time in a row.
Quote from: The GAA on February 24, 2009, 11:36:53 AM
Team for England named at lunctime. is wallace and d'arcy the only call to be made?
i think he'll go with the same starting 15 for the third time in a row.
I'd love to see Earls in the squad but it won't happen. The other young guns Luke and Rob have done well so we shouldn't be afraid of throwing him in.
Quote from: The GAA on February 24, 2009, 11:36:53 AMTeam for England named at lunctime. is wallace and d'arcy the only call to be made?
I'm not aware of injuries but I'd say that inside centre is the only performance call. It would be hard on Wallace who has had a couple of very unfortunate injuries but D'Arcy is the more natural choice. Wouldn't care which way it went.
It seems kidney is deliberately taking the kicking away from ROG early in these games - presumably to disrupt the opposition back row's plans to get at him. O'Leary's box kicks and the use of wallace at 12 are central to that and i expect wallace to remain for that reason
ireland uncganged, Mick O'D in place of Mal O'Kelly in the subs is only change
Unchanged starting line-up is fair enough I suppose.
I can't go Mick O'Driscoll at all. I don't think he's anywhere near international level. I'd definitely have Bob Casey ahead of him.
A bit strange that O'Kelly has gone from sub to not even in the panel. Something happened behind the scences I reckon.
since the move up to Croker, we usually go to Quinns (ye gotta miss those big beef baps in Scruffy Murphys done Lansdowne way)..but i called into a bar near enough to the cat and cage on route to the Wales game last year for a quick stout, it had a good outdoor area at the back with BBQ's on match days. Has a long bar to the right as you head in and the toilets are upstairs. anyone know the name of it?
always nervous when ireland have the favourite tags
PQ
The Iveagh House???
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 24, 2009, 01:59:24 PM
The Iveagh House???
that rings a bell, cheers. Malcolm O'Kelly was enjoying some stoutage in there before the Welsh game last year, by all accounts, he might well be in again this Saturday!
PQ
England team to face Ireland in Dublin on 28 February:
D Armitage; Sackey, Tindall, Flutey, Cueto; Flood, Ellis;
Sheridan, Mears, Vickery; Borthwick, Kennedy; Haskell, Worsley, Easter.
Replacements: Hartley, White, Croft, Narraway, Care, Goode, Tait.
Happy enough that we can beat that team this weekend. Ellis and Flood would be the only real worries for me. Our pack should be destroying England's which should give us a decent platform to win the game. Hope we can do the business!
Quote from: screenexile on February 25, 2009, 01:11:58 PM
Happy enough that we can beat that team this weekend. Ellis and Flood would be the only real worries for me. Our pack should be destroying England's which should give us a decent platform to win the game. Hope we can do the business!
Dont rate these pair of boys at all so quite happy to see them in the line up. Surprised Foden or Cipriani arent given a spot on the bench - I am a big fan of both them. The continued selection of Borthwick is bound to upset the English media before and after the game. Was reading over the weekend that in ball carries Borthwick was in negative figures.
Quote from: tyroneboi on February 25, 2009, 01:15:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 25, 2009, 01:11:58 PM
Happy enough that we can beat that team this weekend. Ellis and Flood would be the only real worries for me. Our pack should be destroying England's which should give us a decent platform to win the game. Hope we can do the business!
Dont rate these pair of boys at all so quite happy to see them in the line up. Surprised Foden or Cipriani arent given a spot on the bench - I am a big fan of both them. The continued selection of Borthwick is bound to upset the English media before and after the game. Was reading over the weekend that in ball carries Borthwick was in negative figures.
Not a great England team by any stretch But Ireland need a good start to get their fragile confidence weakened further.
TBH, I'd be happy if the Ireland scrum broke even as the England front row got them to a WC final in France. Borthwich seems to be under pressure in the English media for his place as he does give away a fair few penalties and doesn't seem to lead the pack at all. Mr Guscott certainly doesn't rate him.
expect Tindall to be careering into ROG and Pat Wallace at every opportunity and if the two lads do enough to get him slowed down and not break the gain line then the speedsters on the English wings shouldn't see a whole pile of ball.
ROG better get his kicking boots on as i think it'll be a narrow win for Ireland so every opportunity will need to be taken when it presents itself.
The odds for this game are -
Ireland 2/5
England 11/4 even 3/1 in places
And the handicap is + or - 9 points.
England's price seems too big ?????????
Quote from: FermGael on February 25, 2009, 12:31:09 PM
England team to face Ireland in Dublin on 28 February:
D Armitage; Sackey, Tindall, Flutey, Cueto; Flood, Ellis;
Sheridan, Mears, Vickery; Borthwick, Kennedy; Haskell, Worsley, Easter.
Replacements: Hartley, White, Croft, Narraway, Care, Goode, Tait.
Its hard to see how Cipriani, Ellis and Lewsey would not improve that team.
Ellis is playing !
Sorry, I meant Foden!
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 24, 2009, 01:59:24 PM
The Iveagh House???
Where does anyone reckon my best bet to see the Sigerson final around that neck of the woods is. The Scotland Italy game is on at the same time and i suspect most pubs will have their rugby heads on.
Anyone heading to the rugby? I'm heading up on my ownsome. Are ye pinting beforehands?
Quote from: orangeman on February 25, 2009, 02:34:19 PM
The odds for this game are -
Ireland 2/5
England 11/4 even 3/1 in places
And the handicap is + or - 9 points.
England's price seems too big ?????????
Have to admit that although I hope we stick 50 points on the Brits, 3/1 is attractive. I thought England did well against Wales.
At a news conference in the lead-up to Saturday's Six Nations match with England here at Croke Park, O'Driscoll was asked about what it was like to play with and against England manager Martin Johnson.
'Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad,' he said to a backdrop of first bemusement and then roaring laughter from reporters.
Is the Wales France game on tonight? Anyone know why they're having a 6N game on a Friday night for a change? Don't ever remember this happening before. Would love to see the game only we've training on at that time and god knows what kind of condition I'll be in afterwards!
Quote from: screenexile on February 27, 2009, 04:30:15 PM
Is the Wales France game on tonight? Anyone know why they're having a 6N game on a Friday night for a change? Don't ever remember this happening before. Would love to see the game only we've training on at that time and god knows what kind of condition I'll be in afterwards!
I think French TV wanted a 9pm kick off but the BBC didn't want such a late kick off on a Saturday night. After some discussions, they came to agreement to play the game on a Friday night game.
Superb try by Lee Byrne. If he continues to finish like that, the full back spot on the Lions team is his, if it isn't already.
Think the ref isn't doing the French any favours even with the home crowd at his back.
The French are looking pretty strong .This will test the character of Wales now.
Any chance this muppet on BBC will stop calling Heymans 'Vincent Clerc', even when Heymans is scoring tries!? :o ::)
Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2009, 09:14:28 PM
Any chance this muppet on BBC will stop calling Heymans 'Vincent Clerc', even when Heymans is scoring tries!? :o ::)
I had to turn it over to RTE. With the 8pm kick off, the BBC started the programme about 2 mins before kick off. What a joke.
In the driving seat now :)
Good match.
very enjoyable game indeed. I thought that France could have been on the wrong side of a tanking after being 13-3 down after 25 mins, fair play to them.
To capitalise Ireland have to beat the English, then a hell of a game awaits in Cardiff
Mighty fare that six nations rugby. Still can't see Ireland winning in the Millenium though.
Missed the game but sounds like it was a good one. Would have liked a Grand Slam decider in Cardiff but it still looks like it could be a Championship decider provided we beat the English tomorrow. Fantastic tournament!!!!
Looked like an exciting win for the U20s there, drop goal with the last kick of the game to win by a point. A good omen hopefully.
Good game tonight. Haven't joined a Rugby thread on here before - I have to admit that whilst i've been watching it for years and thoroughly enjoy it, i still don't understand half the rules!
On another note, does anyone know who was being interviewed about tomorrow's game on Good Morning Ulster (Radio Ulster) this morning? I was listening to it in the car on the way into work and missed who it was being interviewed - i think it may have been a southern rugby journalist. Anyway, he was commenting on how he preferred Lansdowne to Croke Park because all of the atmosphere escaped out of the Canal End in Croke Park. Must have been a very strong wind when he was there!
Sounds like something Thornley would say... Gerry Thornley from the Times. Knows his Rugby of that there's no doubt but he's an arrogant git!
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2009, 12:24:00 AM
Good game tonight. Haven't joined a Rugby thread on here before - I have to admit that whilst i've been watching it for years and thoroughly enjoy it, i still don't understand half the rules!
On another note, does anyone know who was being interviewed about tomorrow's game on Good Morning Ulster (Radio Ulster) this morning? I was listening to it in the car on the way into work and missed who it was being interviewed - i think it may have been a southern rugby journalist. Anyway, he was commenting on how he preferred Lansdowne to Croke Park because all of the atmosphere escaped out of the Canal End in Croke Park. Must have been a very strong wind when he was there!
It was that p***k Neil Francis.......one of the biggest cowards ever to wear the green! Have to agree with his take on todays game......no more than 7 points in it......would love to see Ireland hammer them, both on the pitch and score board. Icing on the cake would be Johnson getting kneed in gonads by President :D
I was convinced 2 years ago that if we started well we would hammer them.
It will be much closer this time but I was impressed with the way we hung on against a good French team. Ireland by 8 - 9.
Fitzgerald to score 1st try.
Well the big day has arrived. Cant wait for this, anyone else heading to the game?
Quote from: Tankie on February 28, 2009, 11:05:55 AM
Well the big day has arrived. Cant wait for this, anyone else heading to the game?
I will be outside protesting! >:(
(http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/lecale2/th_Protestor.jpg)
Home for the weekend so might have to put up with feckin Ryall Nugent commentating. feck he does my head in.
Lambbeg drum playing in croker
We could do with SON on for ireland to score a few points
Shockers all over croke park
Thank feck for a score. Had visions of a nil-nil.
Thank feck they will not be back in croker again. Watching it on bbc and the stadium looks first class, its something to be proud of.
Is anyone listening to this w**ker on BBC?
He says to Keith wood and the scottish fellla - that they would both describe that "tackle" on O'Driscoll as a foul and a penalty because
"You are both Celts"
What an arsehole.
Was just about to post on that puck. The two lads not getting on
What a lead we would have if we had taken all our points that o'gara missed
Quote from: hardstation on February 28, 2009, 06:52:38 PM
FFS O'Gara, away and play with the traffic.
Is there no one else to take a kick?
I cant stand martin johnson, he's got a face youd never get sick slapping.
Martin Johnson is a hewer! Great player - but a hewer.
Quote from: Puckoon on February 28, 2009, 07:01:41 PM
Martin Johnson is a hewer! Great player - but a hewer.
C**T, I think, is the word.
Ireland need to make this sin bin count
That was hard watching but a win is all that matters...
I am not a rugby fan whatsoever but who would be our second or third choice kickers??
Your english fella did well when he was needed to make a kick that mattered
thank f**k for that, nerves were away there
Quote from: pintsofguinness on February 28, 2009, 07:03:19 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on February 28, 2009, 07:01:41 PM
Martin Johnson is a hewer! Great player - but a hewer.
C**T, I think, is the word.
There's not many people that you comment on that arent. Hard to watch.
Quote from: Puckoon on February 28, 2009, 06:43:38 PM
Is anyone listening to this w**ker on BBC?
He says to Keith wood and the scottish fellla - that they would both describe that "tackle" on O'Driscoll as a foul and a penalty because
"You are both Celts"
What an arsehole.
Cant be as bad as listening to George Hook, what a w*nker.
I`m not normally a rugby fan or a fan of Brian O`Driscoll, but you have to take your hat off to him today. Hell of a performance, very deserving man of the match.
Ireland should have been out of sight before England got that late score, O`Gara missed a lot of easy kicks.
Quote from: Double Cross on February 28, 2009, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on February 28, 2009, 06:43:38 PM
Is anyone listening to this w**ker on BBC?
He says to Keith wood and the scottish fellla - that they would both describe that "tackle" on O'Driscoll as a foul and a penalty because
"You are both Celts"
What an arsehole.
Cant be as bad as listening to George Hook, what a w*nker.
I`m not normally a rugby fan or a fan of Brian O`Driscoll, but you have to take your hat off to him today. Hell of a performance, very deserving man of the match.
Ireland should have been out of sight before England got that late score, O`Gara missed a lot of easy kicks.
No chance George Hook is one of the best pundits on tv!
Would love to be a fly on the wall with Johnson now. I wouldnt like to be Danny Care at this moment in time.
O'Driscoll might have moved into pole position for the Lions captaincy with what he did out there today.
Jack Kyle on with the pundits now on RTE. For a man who is 85 he is incredibly tuned in. Seems like the legend that Hook says he is
I remember him on the BBC a couple of years ago. Wasn't impressed.
f**k me that was unnecessarily hard work. Credit to England, they had 15 men following a game plan perfectly, but it should never have come down to those sweaty last few minutes.
BOD was immense. Bowe and Ferris were excellent, as was Kearney. The less said about ROG the better. It's still on, and that's the main thing.
Quote from: ziggysego on February 28, 2009, 07:57:11 PM
I remember him on the BBC a couple of years ago. Wasn't impressed.
Really? Why?
BOD was immense.
Crap Game
O'Gara will win us us the Grand Slam, trust him, he just had a bed game.
Jack Kyle did himself and rugby proud tonight. A legend with his marbles intact. McGuirk wasn't even joking when he asked him to join the panel fulltime. As a rule, octogenerians should be kept off the television, but this man is one hell of an exception.
Ireland a bit lucky there.
England left the door open with the sin binnings and penalties conceded and Ireland didn't punish them.
England also created a few opportunities where a less disjointed side would have finished with tries.
I think Ireland are a bit predictable. England always held a couple of extra men back in anticipation of Tomas "box kick" O'Leary and O'Gara kicking it down at them. Ireland need to vary it a bit more and hopefully Dorcy will be in the next day to add a bit of punch. The backs got very little quick ball to try and run at the English.
Some laugh to hear Brian Moore trying to say the late hit after O'Driscoll had kicked was legit. Beating England is all the more sweeter when you get one over on creeps like Martin Johnson, Brian Moore and Jeremy Guscott.
I think the Welsh will go all out to upset Ireland's Grand Slam push. Also a few of their big players will want to cement their places on the Lions. I have a feeling Ireland will struggle to close out the Grand Slam.
wow as I said before the season started greatness beckons for this Irish squad. Odriscoll is up there with dooher as one of the bravest sportsmen I have seen. Kyle is a legend.
Nice touch by kidney at the end re gaa comment. I hope martin johnsons snarling arse is uncomfortable tonight in his job after his disrespect to our president
I love rugby and the whole drinking rugby thing
Even with Wales's defeat last night, the Six Nations still looks like coming down to the very last game in Cardiff between Wales and Ireland. Would be some day to be in Cardiff if Ireland are pushing for a Grand Slam!
QuoteOdriscoll is up there with dooher as one of the bravest sportsmen I have seen
Sweet jesus.....wise to f**k up wud yiz ???
Ireland could live to regret that late try. If we beat Scotland and lose to Wales it could all come down to scoring difference for the Championship.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2009, 11:29:56 PM
Ireland could live to regret that late try. If we beat Scotland and lose to Wales it could all come down to scoring difference for the Championship.
I'm not a mad rugby fan so maybe I'm off the mark with this one but the championship is secondary, grand slam or bust. Championship teams come and go but Grand Slammers, well there's only six or seven Irish men alive who can boast that as Jackie Kyle was saying
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 28, 2009, 11:54:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2009, 11:29:56 PM
Ireland could live to regret that late try. If we beat Scotland and lose to Wales it could all come down to scoring difference for the Championship.
I'm not a mad rugby fan so maybe I'm off the mark with this one but the championship is secondary, grand slam or bust. Championship teams come and go but Grand Slammers, well there's only six or seven Irish men alive who can boast that as Jackie Kyle was saying
Well yes, it's all about the grand slam, but at the end of the day, it's better to come first than second. A Championship would be the next best thing.
QuoteWell yes, it's all about the grand slam, but at the end of the day, it's better to come first than second. A Championship would be the next best thing.
If Ireland win the Six Nations, then it will be the first international tournament Ireland have won in a long time, who are we to turn our noses up at a Six Nations title! It will all be about points, and Wales going head to head with Ireland for the Championship would be some game under the closed roof of the Millennium Stadium.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on February 28, 2009, 08:12:08 PM
BOD was immense.
Crap Game
O'Gara will win us us the Grand Slam, trust him, he just had a bed game.
2 bad games out of 3 for O'Gara.
By "will win us the Grand Slam", are you saying he'll be man of the match v Wales? Hugely unlikely. But we will need him to do his job if we are to win the grand slam.
I thought it was an outstanding performance by O'Driscoll - the essence of sporting greatness - doing it when it matters. On the other hand, what does O'Gara have to do to lose his place? Or even to get hauled off when he's having one of his nightmares?
(Disclaimer - no expert on rugby, etc.)
A win is a win! After each match it's two points but there is a lot of work to do. In a way this is better than free scoring victories where no questions are asked or answered.
O'Gara was poor. There is an issue that he has had no competition for the jersey for a number of years, since Humphries retired. Having said that I still don't reckon the coach would haul off O'Gara after 60 minutes and put on an inexperienced out half (if one had been blooded over the last few year(s)), and was on the bench to start with).
I'd be concerned too with the lack of opportunities we have been creating by throwing the ball out to our backs. I'm not an expert so i can't tell if this is down to any factors with the half backs or it just isn't clicking. It looks to me like Kearney, Fitzgerald and Bowe are playing reasonably well but they could do with a bit of ball thrown out to them. O'Driscoll of course is savage, and makes a total mockery of the calls to have him replaced as captain.
PS - I enjoy Brian Moore's commentary - especially when he's getting thick!!
Bit of a curates egg there yesterday again. O'Gara was shocking at his kicks for goal. I don't know what's up with him, but I do hold my hands up yesterday as a defender of him. That wasn't nearly good enough. Out of hand he wasn't as bad as it may have seemed, the ELV argument I put forth earlier still applies, and he did have some good positional kicks when Ireland needed it, especially when England pressed up flat on the outside with Sackey and Cueto.
O'Driscoll and O'Connell were absolutely immense. I've defended O'Driscoll in the past as well, and he'd make you proud with the effort he puts in defensively, never mind his good brain and attacking threat. O'Connell likewise. A giant of a man. He called nearly every lineout on himself, and then went up and won them.
I thought Ireland played a horses for courses approach yesterday. England came determined to smash them out of the way, but Ireland met them, matched them, and outdid them in that aspect. It wasn't a day for running rugby, and the amount of ball kicked by Kearney, Bowe, Fitzgerald, O'Gara and O'Driscoll indicated that space up on the line was at a premium. I think we've won 3 very different games in 3 very different ways, which is great.
Against France it was heart stopping run, run, run. Against Italy it was brutal and then outlasting them, against England it was mano a mano for 80 minutes, and we beat them too, and if O'Gara wasn't doing his best to hit the corner of Hill 16, we'd have won by more.
On a side note, nice to meet up with muppet and passedit for a pint before the game. I should have made a weekend out of it :)
If O'Gara had nailed the penalties, there wouldn't have been much mention of him.
He did reasonably ok out of the hand. Found good touch a couple of times and didn't do as well with a couple of others. I've seen him had worse days in open play, but manage to nail the penalites. I still believe he is a limited player beyond his kicking.
The bigger is issue is the lack of replacements. Also, you have to question why many Irish players are one dimensional and it seems can only play in one positiion effectively.
Most other rugby nations have players who have the all round game to play.
The other night France threw Baby in at fly half and he seemed to cope in a position he never played in before. You look at Élissalde, Michalak who can play scrum half and fly half.
Ireland just doesn't do that sort of dynamic rugby. When you heaer it mentioned about about Tommy Bowe's has improved a lot by being played as a centre at Ospreys, you have to wonder why players aren't getting all round grounding in the Irish system.
We tend to produce scrum halves who throw, fly halves who kick etc. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Last night something different than just kicking away possession. England were standing up flat, bordering on the offside. I don't remember Ireland trying to dink the ball in behind them, make a quick break, or try and do something to get them turned the wrong way.
Quote from: AFS on March 01, 2009, 04:03:14 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 28, 2009, 08:36:01 PM
Some laugh to hear Brian Moore trying to say the late hit after O'Driscoll had kicked was legit. Beating England is all the more sweeter when you get one over on creeps like Martin Johnson, Brian Moore and Jeremy Guscott.
That's neither here nor there, it has to be about more than those guys. You know what you get from Moore, and I think most of the time he calls it like it is. I also don't think Guscott is that bad at all either. We should be able to rise about the easy English bashing, there are greater targets.
C'mon now.
You have to enjoy moments like this! ;D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/7917118.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/7917118.stm)
Superb thickness from Johnson!
As an aside, didn't Bernard Jackman do something very similar to the English lad when Ireland needed points at the end against Wales last year in Croke Park?
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 01, 2009, 11:51:55 AM
If O'Gara had nailed the penalties, there wouldn't have been much mention of him.
He did reasonably ok out of the hand. Found good touch a couple of times and didn't do as well with a couple of others. I've seen him had worse days in open play, but manage to nail the penalites. I still believe he is a limited player beyond his kicking.
The bigger is issue is the lack of replacements. Also, you have to question why many Irish players are one dimensional and it seems can only play in one positiion effectively.
Most other rugby nations have players who have the all round game to play.
The other night France threw Baby in at fly half and he seemed to cope in a position he never played in before. You look at Élissalde, Michalak who can play scrum half and fly half.
Ireland just doesn't do that sort of dynamic rugby. When you heaer it mentioned about about Tommy Bowe's has improved a lot by being played as a centre at Ospreys, you have to wonder why players aren't getting all round grounding in the Irish system.
We tend to produce scrum halves who throw, fly halves who kick etc. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Last night something different than just kicking away possession. England were standing up flat, bordering on the offside. I don't remember Ireland trying to dink the ball in behind them, make a quick break, or try and do something to get them turned the wrong way.
In fairness O'Leary is an all rounder. His kicking game is the main reason he's ahead of Reddin, and of course he's played stand off for us for 10 minutes this campaign. Although I think Kidney instructs him to kick a bit too often. And I think if O'Gara had been hauled off at half time, and we'd played Wallace at 10 and D'Arcy at 12 for the second half, we would have won far more comfortably. It would surely improve O'Gara's performances if he knew his place was in real jepoardy.
Scotland are improving with every game. Definite potential bananaskin. Amazing they started the campaign without their 3 most dangerous backs.
Scotland really could be a tough game. The Scottish back row is arguably better than any we've faced this season to date...and it's not like our halfbacks have clicked in the previous games.
We still should have too much class for them at midfield and further back, but if the Scots get in our faces there won't be much in it.
I imagine we'll be going out with the same team again, which is sensible enough. But if Kidney doesn't trust the likes of Murphy and D'Arcy to come into a tight game, maybe they shouldn't be involved at all? BOD was out on his feet yesterday in the last quarter - so something really mustn't be right with those two.
Secondly, if Paddy Wallace really isn't under consideration as a replacement fly-half, then we really need to get one on the bench. It's not acceptable that such a crucial position can be left solely in the hands of a man with questionable mental fortitude.
I'd have Court, Best, Casey, Leamy, Reddan, Humphreys and D'Arcy myself.
Quote from: Hound on March 01, 2009, 12:42:10 PM
In fairness O'Leary is an all rounder. His kicking game is the main reason he's ahead of Reddin, and of course he's played stand off for us for 10 minutes this campaign. Although I think Kidney instructs him to kick a bit too often.
True I suppose, though his passing is not exceptionally quick. Maybe it is a pipe dream to expect both quick wrists and a good boot on a player. I just think that if the ball has to come through the hands of O'Leary, O'Gara and then Wallace before it gets to the real flyers you are really aren't giving yourself much chance of opening up a team.
England kept a couple of men on either touchline to make it difficult for O'Gara to find touch, also they defended any back row drives by Ireland fairly well too. So Ireland didn't really have many other ways of worrying them. Kearney, Fitzgerald and Bowe rarely got a decent pass and most of their best moments came from kicks and chases of their own possession.
Quote from: turk on March 01, 2009, 12:01:38 PM
As an aside, didn't Bernard Jackman do something very similar to the English lad when Ireland needed points at the end against Wales last year in Croke Park?
Yep, he ploughed into the back of him and gave Wales the match sealing penalty. It was even worse because the Welsh player had both arms in the air to indicate he wasn't trying to interfere with play.
Result was all important yesterday.......thought ref was terrible....england constantly offside....never heard him once say "hands out white, or roll away white". My main concern come Cardiff is the bench....no real replacements for Hayes, O'Gara or Kearney. The Welsh have good replacements and I think it will come down to the respective benches to win the game. Hope I'm wrong.
QuoteResult was all important yesterday.......thought ref was terrible....england constantly offside....never heard him once say "hands out white, or roll away white".
When one of the English boys was sent off they said on the BBC commentary that the ref told him to move away but we couldnt hear it. So he was probably telling them the whole game.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on March 01, 2009, 02:18:12 PM
QuoteResult was all important yesterday.......thought ref was terrible....england constantly offside....never heard him once say "hands out white, or roll away white".
When one of the English boys was sent off they said on the BBC commentary that the ref told him to move away but we couldnt hear it. So he was probably telling them the whole game.
In the ruck just before vickery got the line the ref clearly said to him next time u do it ur gone and the very next ruck his hands were all over it.
Think its very unfair to call johnson and guscott creeps, i like guscott, hes never done anything wrong other than be good
johnson made a stand in landsdown, there was no way he could have backed down, if it was the other way round and we got one of theirs to move down the red carpet we'd be gloating over it, a man who alwaus played with passion and one his country a world cup, the only reason we hate him is cause he destroyed us so often.
Thought outside of his kicking ogara was ok, he made 2 late kicks for the corner that really lifted pressure. Also cant be dropped as we have no alternative, possibly hump junior in 3 years.
Thought carney and ferris were excellent
Quote from: rrhf on February 28, 2009, 08:51:55 PM
wow as I said before the season started greatness beckons for this Irish squad. Odriscoll is up there with dooher as one of the bravest sportsmen I have seen. Kyle is a legend.
Nice touch by kidney at the end re gaa comment. I hope martin johnsons snarling arse is uncomfortable tonight in his job after his disrespect to our president
I love rugby and the whole drinking rugby thing
What did he do?? Musta missed that?
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 01, 2009, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 28, 2009, 08:51:55 PM
wow as I said before the season started greatness beckons for this Irish squad. Odriscoll is up there with dooher as one of the bravest sportsmen I have seen. Kyle is a legend.
Nice touch by kidney at the end re gaa comment. I hope martin johnsons snarling arse is uncomfortable tonight in his job after his disrespect to our president
I love rugby and the whole drinking rugby thing
What did he do?? Musta missed that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtmCGFt6Dg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtmCGFt6Dg)
The Irish team should have fucked them out of the way though.
Just at the end of the video Tom McGirk says, it was a day for hating the English and they gave us a very good reason to hate them.
Do the Irish need another reason to hate the English?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on March 01, 2009, 02:42:12 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 01, 2009, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 28, 2009, 08:51:55 PM
wow as I said before the season started greatness beckons for this Irish squad. Odriscoll is up there with dooher as one of the bravest sportsmen I have seen. Kyle is a legend.
Nice touch by kidney at the end re gaa comment. I hope martin johnsons snarling arse is uncomfortable tonight in his job after his disrespect to our president
I love rugby and the whole drinking rugby thing
What did he do?? Musta missed that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtmCGFt6Dg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtmCGFt6Dg)
The Irish team should have fucked them out of the way though.
Youtube blocked in work here, will get a look when I get home, cheers...
England came with a dour game-plan which Ireland would have coped easily with had we hit our penalties. The score should have been 20-6 entering the last two minutes and we would have been more than happy with that.
Some of the players seem to be struggling under the weight of all the Grand Slam talk. Normally O'Gara nails his kicks even if he does nothing else. Others such as BOD seem to thrive on the pressure to deliver. It was amazing the number of times England had an overlap but never got to take advantage because someone, usually O'Driscoll, put in a man & ball tackle. Either we were fortunate or we have a great defensive system, I don't know enough about rugby to be able to tell the difference.
Scotland is a huge banana skin. Instead of going there to get two points and another link in the Grand Slam chain I think we should forget the Welsh for the moment & go there to try to seal the Championship. A big win in Murrayfield should be enough. Then & only then should we worry about the Grand Slam.
Enjoyed meeting AZOffaly and Passedit before the game. It is amazing how easy it is to talk to people you meet off this discussion board. We should do that kind of thing more often.
It was an absorbing to watch on tv. Good to get the minnows out of the way :)
Wasn't it absurd when the RTE commentary team thought the 2nd yellow was harsh, that the English guy had a right to clear the way and this was said over a tv replay which showed that the ball had long departed the ruck and was in play elsewhere?
Quote from: Main Street on March 01, 2009, 03:55:10 PM
It was an absorbing to watch on tv. Good to get the minnows out of the way :)
Wasn't it absurd when the RTE commentary team thought the 2nd yellow was harsh, that the English guy had a right to clear the way and this was said over a tv replay which showed that the ball had long departed the ruck and was in play elsewhere?
Yeah, i noticed this as well. The interview with Jack Kyle after the game was superb though.
Not a big fan of Rugby, and after watching yesterdays game i am still not!
Has Ireland only got o Gara to take the kicks, his contribution to the game was zero!
As for England they were horrible and could still have won only for their ill discipline!
Watched on Setanta, could they get no one else to co- commentate only that biased little bastard Moore!
Quote from: Hotrocks on March 01, 2009, 04:34:35 PM
Not a big fan of Rugby, and after watching yesterdays game i am still not!
Has Ireland only got o Gara to take the kicks, his contribution to the game was zero!
As for England they were horrible and could still have won only for their ill discipline!
Watched on Setanta, could they get no one else to co- commentate only that biased little b**tard Moore!
Stick to the GAA as you clearly do not understand the game. As a game though yesterday it was not great but a win is a win and its was great to see BOD probably claim the Loins captaincy!
Quote from: pintsofguinness on March 01, 2009, 02:42:12 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 01, 2009, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 28, 2009, 08:51:55 PM
wow as I said before the season started greatness beckons for this Irish squad. Odriscoll is up there with dooher as one of the bravest sportsmen I have seen. Kyle is a legend.
Nice touch by kidney at the end re gaa comment. I hope martin johnsons snarling arse is uncomfortable tonight in his job after his disrespect to our president
I love rugby and the whole drinking rugby thing
What did he do?? Musta missed that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtmCGFt6Dg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtmCGFt6Dg)
The Irish team should have fucked them out of the way though.
the Irish team had 80 minutes that day to 'f**k them out of the way' but didn't!!
As for saturday, very jittery indeed and the team in general wasn't helped by O'Gara's poor kicking which if they'd been converted would have settled the team earlier. Fair fucks to O'Driscoll for taking it upon himself to take the drop goal on to give a lead when things were still in the balance.
O'Gara would have had an absolute mare if he hadn't of redeemed himself somewhat with some good kicks for touch when Ireland needed to get a better field position when under pressure.
IMO if England had of started with Moody of the big eye brows they may have probably beaten Ireland but we'll have to thank young Martin for that one. i hope he paid the GAA for the damage to that seat he was punching.
The Scots won't be a soft touch especially as they specialise in ruining the party and it's a real banana skin if Ronan doesn't pin them back early on, one of those games ireland go in as favourites, a tag we don't carry well.
Yer man Jack Kyle was a great guest on RTE after the game, he was bright as a button and enjoyable to listen to, he must be at least in his mid 80's.
Firstly thank god Brian O'Driscoll is Irish simply the best player Ireland has ever produced, very unassuming to meet as well.
No point in bashing O'Gara, he was poor as he has been since the World Cup in 2007. Part of the problem was that the English team had a simply game plan and that was to slow down Irish ball as much as possible and they competed on every ruck hence the high penalty count. O'Leary had to dig out nearly every ball and our ball presentation was poor often resulting in a squeeze ball (ball placed between the legs) which by it's nature is a slow ball. Ireland tried to pick and go to quicken up the ball to scrum half but the English fringe defence was excellent and they domnated the collision area.
Should have won comfortably and while weary of Scotland if we can dominate up front and we should we will win by 10 - 15.
By the way again credit must go to Gert Smal our set-piece was again excellent on Saturday and Ferris, O'Connell and John Hayes again were all immense.
Lads I admit I know next to nothing about the egg chasing but I enjoy watching it.....but yer man Stephen Jones in the Times yesterday gave BÓD 6 out of 10 and basically said he had an average game.....I've heard a few lads on here giving out about Jones....seems like he goes out of his way to wind people up with his opinions...is he the rugby version of Liam Hayes????
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 02, 2009, 11:42:47 AM
Part of the problem was that the English team had a simply game plan and that was to slow down Irish ball as much as possible and they competed on every ruck hence the high penalty count. O'Leary had to dig out nearly every ball and our ball presentation was poor often resulting in a squeeze ball (ball placed between the legs) which by it's nature is a slow ball. Ireland tried to pick and go to quicken up the ball to scrum half but the English fringe defence was excellent and they domnated the collision area.
It looked to me that Stringer got into the flow of that game quickly, was more assertive than O'Leary at the back of the ruck and got the ball moving to the back line decisively.
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2009, 03:26:06 PM
England came with a dour game-plan which Ireland would have coped easily with had we hit our penalties. The score should have been 20-6 entering the last two minutes and we would have been more than happy with that.
Some of the players seem to be struggling under the weight of all the Grand Slam talk. Normally O'Gara nails his kicks even if he does nothing else. Others such as BOD seem to thrive on the pressure to deliver. It was amazing the number of times England had an overlap but never got to take advantage because someone, usually O'Driscoll, put in a man & ball tackle. Either we were fortunate or we have a great defensive system, I don't know enough about rugby to be able to tell the difference.
Scotland is a huge banana skin. Instead of going there to get two points and another link in the Grand Slam chain I think we should forget the Welsh for the moment & go there to try to seal the Championship. A big win in Murrayfield should be enough. Then & only then should we worry about the Grand Slam.
Enjoyed meeting AZOffaly and Passedit before the game. It is amazing how easy it is to talk to people you meet off this discussion board. We should do that kind of thing more often.
Indeed Muppet, good to meet the both of ye allright, good to get a bit of sensible chat as my english guests had been on the lash from when they got off the plane at 8.30 that morning. Big thankyou to AZ who saved me a 100mile round trip to pick up a ticket, the drinking time saved meant i was able to get on the same wavelength as the lads at lot sooner.
Poor enough entertainment for the non committed fan but enough going on to keep the interest throughout. I don't buy the bbc spin that Engerland would have won if they'd kept 15 men on the pitch. The penalty count and the binnings were an inevitable consequence of the damage limitation exercise gameplan. Had they played any differently or been reffed properly they'd have been whopped.
QuoteIt looked to me that Stringer got into the flow of that game quickly, was more assertive than O'Leary at the back of the ruck and got the ball moving to the back line decisively.
England were tiring and they had recieved their 1st yellow. Stringer added nothing but a terrible missed tackle on Tindall when he came on. Shouldn't be anywhere near the squad.
Quote from: 5 Sams on March 02, 2009, 11:49:12 AM
Lads I admit I know next to nothing about the egg chasing but I enjoy watching it.....but yer man Stephen Jones in the Times yesterday gave BÓD 6 out of 10 and basically said he had an average game.....I've heard a few lads on here giving out about Jones....seems like he goes out of his way to wind people up with his opinions...is he the rugby version of Liam Hayes????
Good description of Jones alright.
Dinny wont agree but I was at the match and am a bit shocked by the plaudits BOD got. Sometimes it is harder to get perspective when there but Hook seems to have gone over the top ( best ever performance by Irish Captain etc ) . BOD is a great flanker these days but not sure about some of his decision making ....as Brent Pope has commented scoring the drop goal meant that an English player ( I forget which one) avoided the sin bin for killing the ball....his second drop goal attempt was a complete waste .
Quote from: bcarrier on March 02, 2009, 02:40:37 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on March 02, 2009, 11:49:12 AM
Lads I admit I know next to nothing about the egg chasing but I enjoy watching it.....but yer man Stephen Jones in the Times yesterday gave BÓD 6 out of 10 and basically said he had an average game.....I've heard a few lads on here giving out about Jones....seems like he goes out of his way to wind people up with his opinions...is he the rugby version of Liam Hayes????
Good description of Jones alright.
Dinny wont agree but I was at the match and am a bit shocked by the plaudits BOD got. Sometimes it is harder to get perspective when there but Hook seems to have gone over the top ( best ever performance by Irish Captain etc ) . BOD is a great flanker these days but not sure about some of his decision making ....as Brent Pope has commented scoring the drop goal meant that an English player ( I forget which one) avoided the sin bin for killing the ball....his second drop goal attempt was a complete waste .
In fairness BC it was a free shot and the way O Gara was going there was no guarantee he'd have kicked the penalty. The English lad shouda walked anyway if the ref was doing his job. You're right about the second kick though, i'll be charitable and put it down to disorientation from the thumps he received.
Probably wrong to complain about first one alright...rising to Dinny's stringer bait ;).
ROG's kicking from hand was actually Ok imo but shots at goal were brutal. Anyone know what overall conversion rate of kicks at goal during rugby at Croker has been?
QuoteDinny wont agree but I was at the match and am a bit shocked by the plaudits BOD got. Sometimes it is harder to get perspective when there but Hook seems to have gone over the top ( best ever performance by Irish Captain etc ) . BOD is a great flanker these days but not sure about some of his decision making ....as Brent Pope has commented scoring the drop goal meant that an English player ( I forget which one) avoided the sin bin for killing the ball....his second drop goal attempt was a complete waste .
Are you serious? He won at least 2 penalties from making a tackle and getting to his feet and trying to win the ball. His awareness for the try was brilliant, positioned himself between the two forwards and attacked the ball low and hard. His drop goal was a beauty and that was an asinine comment from Pope, how do the f*ck those he know the ref was going to give a yellow, BOD had a free shot and took it. It was BOD's leadership that kept going for the corner as well turning down the kicks and eventually we got the try. Not to mention his relieveing kicks, break up the side and his all round defence. He took cheap shot after cheap and still came back for more, watch it again BC you might be surprised by just how good he was.
It was his best display as a captain ever imho as for Hook that man is quite simply a baffoon, RTE's coverage like nearly everything else they do is rubbish, bi-polar in the extreme.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 02, 2009, 02:33:45 PM
QuoteIt looked to me that Stringer got into the flow of that game quickly, was more assertive than O'Leary at the back of the ruck and got the ball moving to the back line decisively.
England were tiring and they had recieved their 1st yellow. Stringer added nothing but a terrible missed tackle on Tindall when he came on. Shouldn't be anywhere near the squad.
I think you are way too negative about Stringer's performance coming on as a sub against England, I had a look to see what the journalists commented
Gerry Thornley
"Tomás O'Leary played well and his box-kicks were much better, but Peter Stringer again upped the tempo."Tony Ward
"Behind, Tomas O'Leary mixed the good with the bad. Some of his tactical kicking -- particularly in terms of the dink over the top -- was purposeful and clever but on occasion, hard-won possession was surrendered a little too easy by way of overcooking the kick. He will retain his place for Murrayfield, but the gap between himself and Peter Stringer is as close now as it could possibly be and is probably on a par with the hooking margin between Jerry Flannery and Rory Best. Would Kidney or any other top-class coach want it any other way?"
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 02, 2009, 03:42:38 PM
QuoteDinny wont agree but I was at the match and am a bit shocked by the plaudits BOD got. Sometimes it is harder to get perspective when there but Hook seems to have gone over the top ( best ever performance by Irish Captain etc ) . BOD is a great flanker these days but not sure about some of his decision making ....as Brent Pope has commented scoring the drop goal meant that an English player ( I forget which one) avoided the sin bin for killing the ball....his second drop goal attempt was a complete waste .
Are you serious? He won at least 2 penalties from making a tackle and getting to his feet and trying to win the ball. His awareness for the try was brilliant, positioned himself between the two forwards and attacked the ball low and hard. His drop goal was a beauty and that was an asinine comment from Pope, how do the f*ck those he know the ref was going to give a yellow, BOD had a free shot and took it. It was BOD's leadership that kept going for the corner as well turning down the kicks and eventually we got the try. Not to mention his relieveing kicks, break up the side and his all round defence. He took cheap shot after cheap and still came back for more, watch it again BC you might be surprised by just how good he was.
It was his best display as a captain ever imho as for Hook that man is quite simply a baffoon, RTE's coverage like nearly everything else they do is rubbish, bi-polar in the extreme.
Dinny, I agree with everything you said there, but 1 thing about the penalty for the corner. O'Driscoll was getting patched up again after another cheap shot the first time and it was Paulie and ROG who made that decision. I don't know if it was ROG feeling he couldn't hit a cow's arse or not, but I'd imagine it was because they knew a try then could be pivotal.
BOD was back up for the second one alright, which was probably his call to say keep going.
I also thought the decision to go for a scrum after Vickery got the bin was absolutely brilliant thinking by whomever it was, probably O'Driscoll. Another lineout would have given the English a chance to defend it again, but calling for a scrum meant they had to replace a back rower, or maybe a back if they dared, to fulfill the front row need for the scrum. That meant they were always going to be light around the fringes of a ruck that was bound to develop. I thought that was brilliant strategy.
Looking at the calender, Looks like it'll be, watch Ireland Vs Wales in O'Flaherty's and then on to Pairc Tailteann for Meath vs Monaghan. Could be a long night of disappointments.
In my opinion, based on the body language and debate, the first decision to go for the line rather than the posts was because O'Gara simply didnt fancy the kick.
Quote from: Hound on March 02, 2009, 04:24:41 PM
In my opinion, based on the body language and debate, the first decision to go for the line rather than the posts was because O'Gara simply didnt fancy the kick.
That was my impression too, although he did take the kick to put them up by 8 a bit later on, having missed the conversion from a similar position. Maybe a bit of both.
From what I heard he had a few quid on Ireland to win by 1-3 points :P
QuoteI think you are way too negative about Stringer's performance coming on as a sub against England, I had a look to see what the journalists commented
Stringer has one string to his bow, allbeit a brilliant string for so long, it worked ok against a tired English defence but did it actually contribute anything in our attack or did I miss something. Thornley has taken "up the tempo" completely out of context, upping the tempo is more to do with tapping free kicks and penalties, taking quick throws, off-loading in the tackle than just a quick pass from static ball. If you want high tempo rugby Reddan is the man plays like that week in week out with Wasps.
In fairness I think O'Driscoll has 2 able lieutenant's in O'Gara and POC and it was the right decision and it's good to see leadership not been confined on the pitch to one player. I think this easing of responsibility has helped O'Driscolls game no end.
Overall do you think Ireland are playing better than our last good season when France had a last gasp try to secure the championship?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 02, 2009, 03:42:38 PM
[
Are you serious? He won at least 2 penalties from making a tackle and getting to his feet and trying to win the ball. His awareness for the try was brilliant, positioned himself between the two forwards and attacked the ball low and hard.
As I said he is a great flanker these days ;).
Think these lads will be down for Armaghs next game in Croker?
(http://www.rugbypicture.co.uk/IrelandvEngland/content/bin/images/large/MI0Z9716.jpg)
Gordon D'Arcy, Peter Stringer, Rory Best and Denis Leamy have all been elevated to the starting XV after several appearances from the replacements bench during the first three games of the Championship and strong performances in the Magners League for their provinces.
D'Arcy starts his first game for Ireland in over a year after being named in the centre in place of Paddy Wallace, who moves to the replacements. Scrumhalf Peter Stringer takes up the No.9 jersey after swapping places with Tomas O'Leary who started the games against France, Italy and England.
The other two changes to the Ireland side are in the pack. In the front row, Rory Best is named at hooker with Jerry Flannery taking Best's position among the replacements. Denis Leamy, who came on in place of Jamie Heaslip during the England game, is picked to start the game at No.8 with Heaslip backing up from the bench.
The game will also be landmark for Ireland tight head prop John Hayes who will become the most capped Irish player of all time with 93 caps to his name, overhauling fellow Ireland squad member Malcolm O'Kelly's previous record.
IRELAND TEAM & REPLACEMENTS (v Scotland, 2009 RBS 6 Nations Championship, Murrayfield, Saturday, March 14, kick-off 5.30pm):
15 - Robert Kearney (UCD - Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD - Leinster) Captain
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne - Leinster)
11 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College - Leinster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution - Munster)
9 - Peter Stringer (Shannon - Munster)
1 - Marcus Horan (Shannon - Munster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge - Ulster)
3 - John Hayes (Bruff- Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution - Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster - Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon - Ulster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen - Munster)
8 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution - Munster)
Replacements:
16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon - Munster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone - Ulster)
18 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution - Munster)
19 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas - Leinster)
20 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin - Munster)
21 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena - Ulster)
22 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester)
Wales lose Dwayne Peel for rest of 6 nations- torn hamstring
Have to say i'm very surprised by kidney's changes. they are all marginal calls apart from d'arcy (how'd he play for leinster at the weekend) imo and its funny to make so many changes to a settled - and successful - team at this stage of the championship.
the reasoning i can see on the flip side is this: the scots will present a very physical and aggressive challenge and that's not a style this irish side has responded well to in the recent past. the scots can very easily be underestimated and could cost us a slam. the newcomers will come in with the bit between their teeth and with possibly one chance to prove their case and won't weaken the team.
What did Heaslip do wrong/Leamy do right in the past 2 weeks? Leamy wasn't fantastic against Newport, and Heaslip hasn't put a foot wrong really, although England wasn't his most noticeable performance.
I also think he's changing for change's sake with Best in for Flannery.
I can see what he's thinking with Stringer, trying to move the scots around.
Paterson to start against Ireland
Scotland's record points scorer Chris Paterson will make his first Six Nations start of the season in Saturday's match against Ireland.
Paterson returns at full-back to replace Hugo Southwell for the encounter at Murrayfield.
Nathan Hines and Jim Hamilton could feature in the yet un-named second row.
The pair are vying with Ally Kellock and Jason White for starts. Prop Alistair Dickinson replaces the injured Allan Jacobsen.
Scotland coach Frank Hadden said: "It will be a close call in the second row but clearly we'll go with the players we believe give us the best chance of creating the sort of platform that we'll need to win against a fine Irish team. Once we have finalised the lock selections we will complete our bench selection
Scotland coach Frank Hadden
"I've been impressed with Chris Paterson's attitude in this Championship.
"As ever, he's been the model professional, getting on with his job and he deserves the opportunity to start on this occasion.
"Once we have finalised the lock selections we will complete our bench selection. Here, we are also monitoring the welcome return to fitness of Rory Lamont."
The Scots received a fitness boost ahead of Saturday's clash after Hamilton, Hines and Lamont returned to training.
Lock Hines and wing Lamont have yet to feature in this year's competition and Hamilton missed the win over Italy.
Hines was expected to miss the entire campaign and defence coach Graham Steadman is happy to have all three back for Saturday's clash.
"The fact they're back training has given everyone a lift," he said.
The Scots are looking to build on the 26-6 victory over the Italians but have not beaten the Irish in the Six Nations since 2001.
But Steadman believes their chances of a win over the unbeaten championship leaders have improved with the trio's return.
It's massive to have these experienced, quality players available
Scotland defence coach
Graham Steadman
"The early call on Jim Hamilton is very positive," he said.
"Nathan, being the experienced pro that he is, will give us an honest call post-session regarding how he has come through it.
"The fact Rory is training with us this week is a boost and it will be interesting to see how far down the track he is in terms of his levels of his fitness.
"It's massive to have these experienced, quality players available. It certainly gives us food for thought for our selection."
A continued problem for the Scots has been conceding cheap penalties at crucial stages of matches with only poor kicking from the Welsh and French sparing Frank Hadden's men from heavier defeats.
Steadman believes eradicating this could be key to a positive result with Irish fly-half Ronan O'Gara a regular points scorer against them from the boot.
"It's a stat I'm not too happy with, the fact we have conceded 38 penalties, compared to their 20. Off the back of that, 22 were kickable offences within range," he added.
"Thankfully (Wales kicker Stephen) Jones and the French guy Beauxis had a bit of an off-day. We were the better team in France and indiscipline cost us.
"It's something we have certainly got to tighten up on.
"Although Ronan O'Gara has not been kicking too well in his previous three games, he was the difference two years back at Murrayfield. He kicked everything and Ireland walked away with the Triple Crown."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scotland team to face Ireland:
Chris Paterson (Edinburgh), Simon Danielli (Ulster) Max Evans (Glasgow), Graeme Morrison (Glasgow), Thom Evans (Glasgow), Phil Godman (Edinburgh), Mike Blair (Edinburgh, capt); Alasdair Dickinson (Gloucester), Ross Ford (Edinburgh), Euan Murray (Northampton); Locks from: Jim Hamilton (Edinburgh), Nathan Hines (Perpignan), Alastair Kellock (Glasgow )and Jason White (Sale); Alasdair Strokosch (Gloucester), John Barclay (Glasgow), Simon Taylor (Stade Francais).
Replacements: Dougie Hall (Glasgow), Moray Low (Glasgow), AN Other lock, Scott Gray (Northampton), Chris Cusiter (Perpignan), AN Other, Hugo Southwell (Edinburgh).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/scottish/7934396.stm
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 10, 2009, 01:30:46 PM
What did Heaslip do wrong/Leamy do right in the past 2 weeks? Leamy wasn't fantastic against Newport, and Heaslip hasn't put a foot wrong really, although England wasn't his most noticeable performance.
I also think he's changing for change's sake with Best in for Flannery.
I can see what he's thinking with Stringer, trying to move the scots around.
I still don't think he's weakening the team and may give it a fresh impetus with the changes.
i'm not really convincing myself
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 10, 2009, 01:30:46 PM
What did Heaslip do wrong/Leamy do right in the past 2 weeks? Leamy wasn't fantastic against Newport, and Heaslip hasn't put a foot wrong really, although England wasn't his most noticeable performance.
I also think he's changing for change's sake with Best in for Flannery.
Think he's looking to beef up the pack a little for the Scots who do have some big boys in there. Best I'd say could be in for his scrummaging ability as Euan Murray was fairly impressive in this regard against the Italians.
Very surprised to see Kidney go with these changes but on previous experience he's a shrewd operator and imo he's keeping a few lads on their toes ahead of the last 2 games as in "If I don't think you're playing at your best I'll bring someone else in" which will have O'Leary, Flannery, Best and Heaslip champing at the bit if/when they do come on to impress for the last game against Wales.
I'm quite Happy he changed things up a bit as there is no way you can win a Slam with the same 15 players starting every game, it's just too much to ask. Obviously he's keen on keeping competition in the squad and if lads feel that they are all being given a chance then it can only improve things. Looking forward to this on eon Saturday!
I would imagine that the team has been picked with next week in mind and these few changes may keep give the marginal positions the edge that Kidney is looking for.
I would say that Heaslip would come back into for Wales unless Leamy really puts himself in contention with a big display.
Horses for courses and all that.
The points are the key against an improving Scots side. Don't think the side is weakened to any extent.
Actually think the changes are pretty shrewd myself. Doesn't weaken the team and possibly strengthens it for the type of game that will have to be played against the Scots. Stringer's pass is quicker than O'Leary's so ROG will get the ball quicker in the early exchanges giving him every chance of getting on his game. Lets face it - we need him playing well. Changes keep everyone on their toes too which is great.
QuoteStringer's pass is quicker than O'Leary's so ROG will get the ball quicker in the early exchanges giving him every chance of getting on his game. Lets face it - we need him playing well.
That's the key Seanie, Stringer who offers absolutely nothing other than a quick pass is picked purely as an aide to O'Gara, it might be a tactical masterstroke but it's something that worries me as Scotland offer a very passive defence and O'Leary's ability to break will be missed. The other selections are interesting and keeps players on their toes without totally weakening the side but Leamy is a better defensive player than Heaslip so I'm hoping that Kidney is going to bring on Heaslip, Wallace and O'Leary when the game is a bit looser probably with about 30/25 to go.
I'm a bit surprised at the changes.
Obviously Kidney is giving the Scots a lot of respect if he feels he need to change the pack that was effective against England and France.
I'd worry that Rory Best could end up throwing the line outs to Nathan Hines a lot! ;D
I wouldn't have made the changes myself lads, however I can seee what Kidney is trying to do in terms of this match and looking down the road to Cardiff and beyond. All the positions changed, the replacement coming in is just as good as the player dropped. In relation to Best for Flannery, Best will increase the scrummaging strength against a strong scottish pack, and negate an area where the Scots could have gained a big advantage. Stringer for O'Leary, one of the strengths O'Leary has apart from line breaking is his kicking game. Ireland have introduced a game plan similar to Argentina had getting third place in the world cup of putting up a lot of garyowens with O'Leary doing a lot of this. Scotland however only lost against Argentina by a point in the world cup indicating this us the type of game they would like to play. So as well of a qicker pass the inclusion of Stringer points to a change of tactic and getting the ball wide quicker and more often. Darcy for Wallace, Darcy as well as being the better player is the better attacking midfield runner and tackler which will be better for a game plan that will see us running the ball more. He is also very good on the ground in midfield which will be very important against the strong rucking Scots. As I said earlier Wallaces kicking strengths won't be required as much in this game. Leamy for Heaslip, Leamy is the more rugged type of scrappy player and a better rucker(important against the Scots) wheras Heaslip has better ball carrying skills. As I see us putting the ball wide more instead of Heaslip running off the base of the scrum, which could be a backward moving scrum against the powerful Scottish pack. It is hard to make good yards from number 8 when the pack are reeling backwards.
On the whole I think it is good to see Kidney making changes like this, I don't think the team loses very much over all if anything in terms of overall skill by making the 4 changes. The changes also look shrewd in terms of the opposition and likely tactics for this game. What is really good to see thinking back is changes like these never happened under O'Sullivan, not only do these changes look correct given the opposition they also will help increase a sense of competition within the matchday squad. Under O'Sullian and a lot of other coaches, change only came after a defeat or when a player was injured, this created complacency within the squads. Of the 4 players picked for this game I think Darcy retains his place for the Welsh game, the other 3 need to play out of their skins or close to perfect to hold on to their places.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 10, 2009, 06:41:22 PM
Stringer who offers absolutely nothing other than a quick pass
Don't forget the toe tap tackle.
Excellent post Capt Pat.
The Stringer inclusion suggests quick ball wide but it is a sad thing that he is back in the team. It is also sad that Wallace was there to bolster O'Gara and now Stringer is there to give him more time to get it wide. The down side to Stringer playing is that the Scottish back-row and defence will now be up on O'Gara as if out of starting-blocks as while he might get the ball quickly, they know exactly where it is going. I'd like to see some of the competition that you talk about that has improved and will improve the team more coming to compete for #10. Otherwise it is a serious under performing position.
QuoteDon't forget the toe tap tackle.
Didn't work against England for their try...
Anyone heading to the game? On the boat to troon this eve myself.
Quote from: passedit on March 13, 2009, 01:53:55 PM
Anyone heading to the game? On the boat to troon this eve myself.
so you won't be running round the hall like an eejit this evening then? ;)
Quote from: stpauls on March 13, 2009, 02:08:51 PM
Quote from: passedit on March 13, 2009, 01:53:55 PM
Anyone heading to the game? On the boat to troon this eve myself.
so you won't be running round the hall like an eejit this evening then? ;)
excuses already made
Quote from: passedit on March 13, 2009, 02:50:55 PM
Quote from: stpauls on March 13, 2009, 02:08:51 PM
Quote from: passedit on March 13, 2009, 01:53:55 PM
Anyone heading to the game? On the boat to troon this eve myself.
so you won't be running round the hall like an eejit this evening then? ;)
excuses already made
git!! enjoy the match! ;D
italy looking good here in Rome. next week could be an anti-climax in Cardiff!
Quote from: unforgiven on March 14, 2009, 04:06:27 PM
italy looking good here in Rome. next week could be an anti-climax in Cardiff!
Italy playing brilliantly. Still think Wales will steal it but we might only need to win in Murrayfield now.
I'm working, whats the score lads?
griffen must have money on wales !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 14, 2009, 04:23:18 PM
griffen must have money on wales !
you not on your date with Screenexile yet LB?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 14, 2009, 04:23:18 PM
griffen must have money on wales !
Just rusty, they brought him back ofter the Bergamasco debacle. I thought he was doing well other than that.
Wales 13 Italy 12.
15 12 c'mon Italy!
I hadn't even pressed post.
Try Wales.
bastardos
Parisse MOTM.
Player of the tournament for me. Unless O'Driscoll leads us to the Slam.
Big win later today will probably sew up the championship.
18 point lead the minute, what do yous reckon that'd need to be pushed out to in order to make things relatively safe?
15mins
Scotland 6 - Ireland 3
20mins
Scotland 9 - Ireland 3
Ireland would need to tighten up.
I think Kaplan is going blow Ireland off the pitch. He's given Scotland a few handy penalties already.
Any links?
RTE Radio 1 is carrying the game
stringer you little legend!
Stringer got man of the match, hopefully Kidney won't buy into that and bring O'Leary back in for Cardiff as he is the better player imho. Stringer got the break for the try when half the pitch opened up in front of him after some consistent Irish pressure but O'Leary still does that type of thing a lot better. Overall a solid performance from the team today and not too big a win to get us over confident going into the Cardiff match. I don't know whether we are good enough to win that game or whether the Welsh will raise their performance levels as they seem to be running out of steam after good form in the Autumn internationals and at the start of the 6 nations. It is in Cardiff where we are usually second to none and all the cards seem to be falling into place. So retain Darcy in the team and bring back Heaslip Flannery and O'Leary and I will go for ireland by 3 poiints.
Despite the talk about BOD, ROG and POC...I thought Ferris was magnificent...unsung hero in my opinion....and has been deadly all year.....monster of a man driving forward.
Personally would have given POC man of the match, very close call with BOD. But as said Ferris has been playing really well too. Thought Heaslip was excellent during his time on the pitch. Leamy's a tough nut but not in Heaslip's class. Leamy is not a top class international 8, possibly a 6, but not ahead of Ferris.
I thought Stringer was poor in the 1st half but good in the 2nd. Did exceptionally well for the try but was blessed not to give away one when his kick was blocked down yards from the line.
Really looking forward to Cardiff next week.
Yeeeeeeeesssssssss!
A win in Murrayfield is a win. Take it and run.
15. good solid game from Kearney, one pass not taken from D'Arcy when something seemed on but otherwise good game. Surprised to see him taken off 7 points up. Lee Byrne still ahead for the Lions but the gap closed today.
14. Solid if unspectacular. Little chance to shine but gained ground on Leigh Halfpenny and may now be ahead of him for the Lions.
13. Another awesome display. Certain starter in SA and probable skipper.
12. I feel sorry for Paddy Wallace as he did nothing wrong but D'Arcy is back, is younger and will hold his place.
11. Good game, little chance to shine but still looked very dangerous.
10. Back to normal, how much of that was Stringer? One missed kick but otherwise a good game.
9. I though he was fine in a bruising forward 1st half. 2nd half he was brilliant (blockdown aside) and I can't believe he was taken off. We ran out of fizz the second he left.
8. Off his game completely. Heaslip will start next week and will go on the Lions.
7. Great game. Pinged a couple of times by a fussy ref in the first half but showed up everywhere including catching the Scottish wing from behind and pulling him off his (not fast enough) legs. The Scottish 10 thought he had hit him hard until he got up seeing Wallace 20 yards behind him.
6. A phenomenon. Will start in SA.
5. Fantastic performance as we have come to expect. He will kill VereWynn Jones next week, thankfully.
4. Great behind the scenes game. He only shows up in the stats these days normally but his early 2nd half lineout steals caught the eye also. Will go to SA.
3. Bolshy ref. Rock on Bull.
2. Good game except for 1 crooked throw (I think). He will start in Cardiff.
1. Did well on You-an, Iaian, Ewean..............fat Scottish prop.
Kearney is some boyo.
Did anyone read Stuart Barnes' article in today's Sunday Times. He pens a scathing enough article on Ireland and their style of play, intimating that they're making a hames of winning the GS in a year when everyone else is crap. He finishes by saying there'll be nothing grand about the Grand Slam if Ireland win it.
What is curious is that they have a watered down version online - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/stuart_barnes/article5908570.ece
They've taken many of the controversial/strong comments out. I wonder why that is.
Quote from: ONeill on March 15, 2009, 11:14:22 AM
Did anyone read Stuart Barnes' article in today's Sunday Times. He pens a scathing enough article on Ireland and their style of play, intimating that they're making a hames of winning the GS in a year when everyone else is crap. He finishes by saying there'll be nothing grand about the Grand Slam if Ireland win it.
What is curious is that they have a watered down version online - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/stuart_barnes/article5908570.ece
They've taken many of the controversial/strong comments out. I wonder why that is.
Sure we seen that before... begudgers about puke football etc fuc 'em...
Read Barnes piece today myself O'Neill. What i took from it is that he seems to believe that we are not making the most of the talent we have in our backs by playing a forward orientated brand of rugby. Personally, i couldnt give a toss whether its "grand" or not, as long as we win in cardiff next week , as the stats wont say how we played, it will only read.....Grand Slam champions !
Quote from: TORGAEL on March 15, 2009, 01:06:19 PM
Read Barnes piece today myself O'Neill. What i took from it is that he seems to believe that we are not making the most of the talent we have in our backs by playing a forward orientated brand of rugby. Personally, i couldnt give a toss whether its "grand" or not, as long as we win in cardiff next week , as the stats wont say how we played, it will only read.....Grand Slam champions !
His comments regarding John Hayes was scandalous. Made a total mockery of his acheivements
Jesus England are running riot. To be far the french are feckin awful
Guscott is predicting that Ireland will choke next week.
Hook said it was because Mike Gibson and O'Driscoll were chosen ahead of him in the all-time Lions 15. ;D
I think I remember in the early 1990s Guscott, Carling and co suggesting that England and France should leave the weaker teams of the 5 Nations and play in a tournament including NZ, Oz and SA.
I think we should do that now. Ireland and Wales should leave the weaker teams such as England and only play with the Southern Hemisphere teams. ;D ;D ;D
Good to see Stringer take his starting place opportunity by the scruff. He has clearly put in the work on his game and regained a lot of his sharpness.
O'Leary has to be one of the worst passers of the ball Ireland has ever had at scrum half.
How many sideway steps does he need to take before he offloads the ball to a player who is more than 2 meters away from him?
Anyone see THAT irish flag on tv yesterday
Were norn iron playing?? ;D
Quote from: ONeill on March 15, 2009, 11:14:22 AM
Did anyone read Stuart Barnes' article in today's Sunday Times. He pens a scathing enough article on Ireland and their style of play, intimating that they're making a hames of winning the GS in a year when everyone else is crap. He finishes by saying there'll be nothing grand about the Grand Slam if Ireland win it.
What is curious is that they have a watered down version online - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/stuart_barnes/article5908570.ece
They've taken many of the controversial/strong comments out. I wonder why that is.
To be fair he has a point. turgid stuff these last two games, everyone trying to go through rather than around obstacles.
Going back to the original post on this thread, I paid £30 on saturday for a better seat than the premium I had in croke Park
Quote from: passedit on March 16, 2009, 12:01:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 15, 2009, 11:14:22 AM
Did anyone read Stuart Barnes' article in today's Sunday Times. He pens a scathing enough article on Ireland and their style of play, intimating that they're making a hames of winning the GS in a year when everyone else is crap. He finishes by saying there'll be nothing grand about the Grand Slam if Ireland win it.
What is curious is that they have a watered down version online - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/stuart_barnes/article5908570.ece
They've taken many of the controversial/strong comments out. I wonder why that is.
To be fair he has a point. turgid stuff these last two games, everyone trying to go through rather than around obstacles.
Going back to the original post on this thread, I paid £30 on saturday for a better seat than the premium I had in croke Park
I disagree. I think he's showing how little he knows about modern rugby and defences etc. Himself and Guscott are really anti Irish and it will be great next week when we do it to see them spewing as the Aussies would say. The very fact of Barnes writing a column like that makes me more confident.
What about wee Stringer. For a man with no break he has made two mighty important ones in his career.
Anti Irish ?
I don't see where Barnes is anti Irish.
He is not thrilled by Irish rugby.
He has a valid point in that Ireland will have to play a lot better to beat Wales at cardiff.
Much of what he writes has been similarly commented by the Irish journalists.
Just how much derision has English rugby shipped over the last years, directed from Irish journalists?
Barnes is definitely not anti-Irish. He's usually quite complimentary about Irish rugby although I think he's being unduly critical in this regard. It is almost impossible to look good playing against Italy and England came to Croke Park and did nothing but spoil. Did he really expect us to turn up at Murrayfield and for the Scots to roll over and get their bellies tickles? That was never going to happen. Besides I thought Ireland actually played some good stuff in the second half once the forwards got on top.
Guscott is just a tosspot in love with himself.
Barnes is an honest, excitable and in my opinion, a very fair pundit. Anybody that takes an interest in rugby and doesn't just dip into it for 6 weeks of the year would know this. He consistently praises Ireland when they perform well and criticises them when they don't - the same as he does with all teams. It is understandable if he focuses a bit more on the English as theat happens to be where he is from.
As for Guscott, he is an extremely smarmy git. However, he did say 2 weeks ago that when he looked at the Irish team he saw 7 Lions test starters in South Africa (generous praise indeed as i think it will be 5 at the very most). If it is his opinion that we will choke next week then he has every right to state that. He has a tremendous amount of evidence to base his opinion on (i.e. - every high pressure match we have played in since we re-emerged as a force). We ALWAYS choke. Lets change that habit this week.
Quote from: Tim Buzaglo on March 16, 2009, 07:27:32 PM
Barnes is an honest, excitable and in my opinion, a very fair pundit.
An excitable pundit?
ex⋅cit⋅a⋅ble /ɪkˈsaɪtəbəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ik-sahy-tuh-buhl] Show IPA
–adjective 1. easily excited:
Yeah ???
Just echoing that Barnes is defo not anti-Irish.
Gives great praise to both Munster and Leinster during Heino Cup.
Didnt read the article, but if he's saying we don't get enough ball to Kearney, Bowe and Fitzgerald - then that's fair comment.
I have to say I like Barnes.
He spent years on the bench for England watching Rob Andrew percentage everone to death.
He has a point, as a neutral, but as an Irishman I will be happy with a 3-0 win on saturday.
P.S.
He told a story on once Sky after the Munster Miracle match (or one of them) where he said they had to stop the car on the way back to Dublin and he ran to a door begging to use the bathroom. He said after that he become opposed to the 'Sin Bin'. ;D He thanked the owners of the house for letting him use their facilities.
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2009, 09:44:27 PM
I have to say I like Barnes.
He spent years on the bench for England watching Rob Andrew percentage everone to death.
He has a point, as a neutral, but as an Irishman I will be happy with a 3-0 win on saturday.
Indeed Muppet, it's not hard to see where his hostility to 'antirugby' comes from.
Funny enough both the boul fella and his nemesis were on the same flight as the lads I was with at the England match the following morning and had to spend the entire flight pretending not to hate eachother much to the amusement of all concerned.
Quote from: Tim Buzaglo on March 16, 2009, 07:49:55 PM
ex⋅cit⋅a⋅ble /ɪkˈsaɪtəbəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ik-sahy-tuh-buhl] Show IPA
–adjective 1. easily excited:
Yeah ???
Barnes is easily excited?
Direct quotes from his article:
Headline - Ireland dwindle on the biggest stage
On O'Gara 'most of the tactical kicking was aimless an unthinking'...'there seems to be no pace to his game, physically or mentally' ....'O'Gara's chest was nothing like a puffed up as it is when he wears the red of Munster'
"In a year when the mediocrity of European rugby has opened the high road to their first Grand Slam since 1948, Ireland seemed too often intent on getting there via the low road and its low-risk intent. Ireland are still on for a Grand Slam but there is nothing grand about it."
Is that a fair summary?
Quote from: ONeill on March 16, 2009, 11:59:42 PM
Direct quotes from his article:
Headline - Ireland dwindle on the biggest stage
On O'Gara 'most of the tactical kicking was aimless an unthinking'...'there seems to be no pace to his game, physically or mentally' ....'O'Gara's chest was nothing like a puffed up as it is when he wears the red of Munster'
"In a year when the mediocrity of European rugby has opened the high road to their first Grand Slam since 1948, Ireland seemed too often intent on getting there via the low road and its low-risk intent. Ireland are still on for a Grand Slam but there is nothing grand about it."
Is that a fair summary?
Let's just say if Ireland win the Grand Slam or even the championship then expect it to be called the worst 6 Nations ever.
Only England are allowed to win vintage 6 nations titles.
QuoteOnly England are allowed to win vintage 6 nations titles.
Don't be so sensitive.
It hasn't been a good 6 Nations but neither have most of them, so what.
Do you expect us to win the Grand Slam and have all the other countries proclaiming it as the greatest ever and bowing to our greatness?
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2009, 12:07:44 AM
QuoteOnly England are allowed to win vintage 6 nations titles.
Don't be so sensitive.
It hasn't been a good 6 Nations but neither have most of them, so what.
Do you expect us to win the Grand Slam and have all the other countries proclaiming it as the greatest ever and bowing to our greatness?
I'm not sensitive in the slightest but wait and see because you know it'll happen.
Does anyone remember how Wales won the grand slam last year, shutting down all their matches with 2o minutes to go with endless recycling going nowhere,as long as they were a few points ahead? It doesn't really matter as long as you win at the end of the day.
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2009, 01:20:03 AM
14. Solid if unspectacular. Little chance to shine but gained ground on Leigh Halfpenny and may now be ahead of him for the Lions.
You really think Leigh Halfpenny for the Lions?
I'd definitely have Tommy Bowe ahead of him, and I think after the weekend Cueto is there too. Personally I'd play Kearney at 15 and Byrne on the wing. Shane Williams obviously nailed on for the other wing.
Quote from: Hound on March 17, 2009, 07:41:10 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 15, 2009, 01:20:03 AM
14. Solid if unspectacular. Little chance to shine but gained ground on Leigh Halfpenny and may now be ahead of him for the Lions.
You really think Leigh Halfpenny for the Lions?
I'd definitely have Tommy Bowe ahead of him, and I think after the weekend Cueto is there too. Personally I'd play Kearney at 15 and Byrne on the wing. Shane Williams obviously nailed on for the other wing.
The Welsh back 3 seemed favourites at the start of the 6N. Now Byrne looks a little shakey as Kearney has made fewer maistakes and even Armitrage has come into the reckoning, while Halfpenny mightn't even travel. I agree about Cueto but the English have only played well once, next week's Calcutta Cup might revise their standing.
I think Bowe will definately travel and is a long shot to start but a lot of decisions will be made next weekend.
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2009, 12:07:44 AM
QuoteOnly England are allowed to win vintage 6 nations titles.
Don't be so sensitive.
It hasn't been a good 6 Nations but neither have most of them, so what.
Do you expect us to win the Grand Slam and have all the other countries proclaiming it as the greatest ever and bowing to our greatness?
100% correct muppet. If we are to win on Saturday i'll be delighted. What the journalists say wont make a difference to me and it shouldn't to anyone else.
We haven't set the tournament alight but we've probably been the best team - time to drop the chip on the shoulder
bit of a surprise, Stringer and Best dropped
O'Leary back for Cardiff showdown
Tomas O'Leary returns to the Ireland starting line-up to face Wales
Tomas O'Leary has won a surprise recall to the Irish line-up as Declan Kidney makes three changes for Saturday's Six Nations climax against Wales.
O'Leary returns at scrum-half in place of Peter Stringer who was Ireland's man-of-the-match against Scotland at Murrayfield last Saturday.
Also returning are Jamie Heaslip and Jerry Flannery who start in place of Denis Leamy and Rory Best.
Gordon D'Arcy, however, retains his place with Paddy Wallace still benched.
The main talking point will be the return of O'Leary ahead of his Munster colleague Stringer.
Stringer, who won his 88th cap last week, was responsible for setting up the only try of the game for number eight Jamie Heaslip and his overall distribution was critical in Ireland's victory.
However, despite Ireland's need to drag the Welsh pack around the park with quick service from rucks, Kidney has gone for the more rounded skills of O'Leary.
O'Leary, who took over from Stringer after a poor World Cup campaign, has strength on his side and has the knack of keeping back-rows honest.
Hooker Best can also be described as unlucky following a five-star showing up front against the Scots where his scrummaging and rugged play in the loose caught the eye.
Heaslip was always going to return at number eight after replacing Leamy midway through the first half when the Munsterman took a stinger on his shoulder.
Leamy, however, still remains doubtful. He has not trained this week to date, and the management will give him more time to fully recover.
D'Arcy gets the nod ahead of Wallace, mainly because of his defensive attributes although it is rough on the Ulsterman who has done nothing wrong so far in the Championship.
D'Arcy, however, looked comfortable again beside his midfield partner Brian O'Driscoll and they should form a useful defensive barrier against the big Welsh centres.
Unbeaten Ireland are looking to secure their first Grand Slam for 61 years while the Triple Crown and the Six Nations Championship title are also at stake.
Ireland will take all three honours if they win, while Wales need to beat Ireland by 13 points or more to secure the Championship and the Triple Crown.
Ireland: R Kearney; T Bowe, B O'Driscoll, capt, G D'Arcy, L Fitzgerald; R O'Gara, T O'Leary; M Horan, J Flannery, J Hayes, D O'Callaghan, P O'Connell, S Ferris, D Wallace, J Heaslip.
Replacements: R Best, T Court, M O'Driscoll, D Leamy, P Stringer, P Wallace, G Murphy.
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 17, 2009, 03:00:03 AM
Does anyone remember how Wales won the grand slam last year, shutting down all their matches with 2o minutes to go with endless recycling going nowhere,as long as they were a few points ahead? It doesn't really matter as long as you win at the end of the day.
Agreee 10000%. People are making out Wales to be world beaters for their recent "slams" when in fact all they did was get on with it. The recent championships that France won were smelly enough too. All that needs to be done is get on with it
What do yous make of this? Some low blows from Gatland, he may as well have just come out and called them chokers. And how does he know what the players got up to in the dressing room after the Scotland game?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7949738.stm
Wales 'dislike' Irish - Gatland
Coach Warren Gatland says Wales' players dislike their Irish rivals more than any other team in the Six Nations.
Gatland made his comments ahead of Saturday's crunch clash in Cardiff in which Ireland bid for the Grand Slam and Wales for the championship.
Gatland said: "Probably, out of all the teams in the Six Nations, the Welsh players dislike the Irish the most.
"Players' experiences against Ireland haven't always been the greatest, so they are very motivated."
Gatland had a a 38-Test reign as Ireland coach between 1998 and 2001 and his comments came after he named a team showing eight changes from the line-up that fumbled its way to a 20-15 win against Six Nations wooden-spoon favourites Italy last weekend.
To retain the trophy, Wales must win by 13 points or more - they last achieved that at Ireland's expense 26 years ago - while a victory of any description would secure a third Triple Crown in five seasons.
Gatland added: "It's about winning the game first, win the Triple Crown, deny them the Grand Slam and then see what position we are in.
"There is a lot of pressure and expectation on the Irish team to come to our back-yard and perform.
"After the Scottish game [on Saturday], the Irish players were an hour-and-a-half in the changing room celebrating and singing, so they were clearly happy where they were at.
"It's how they handle that pressure. There has been expectation on them over a number of years and in a couple of World Cups as well.
"At international level, when there has been that expectation either to perform in Six Nations tournaments or World Cups, they've sometimes faltered a little bit.
"It will be interesting to see how [coach] Declan [Kidney] handles that and how the players handle that this week.
"They've performed well in this Six Nations, but we're at home with a massive crowd behind us.
"If you go back to the autumn, they [Ireland ] were talking themselves up a lot before the All Blacks game - and they really performed poorly in that game.
"We've got to really concentrate on ourselves and put them under as much pressure as we can."
Reflecting on events in the Eternal City, Gatland said: "I've been criticised for the number of changes I made, and in hindsight maybe we made too many changes.
"I am not afraid to put my hand up and say maybe it was the wrong decision. Tactically, we got some things wrong against Italy.
"We feel we haven't played as well as we could have done in this Six Nations and we want to address that.
"To win the title again would be a massive achievement. If we play to our potential on Saturday, we are capable of winning and winning well."
He added: "With a healthy head-start, you have to say Ireland are probably favourites to take the title.
"But we are confident we can come up with a win - and who knows what will happen if we can get ourselves ahead in the game and that Millennium Stadium factor begins to kick in?"
Quote from: AFS on March 18, 2009, 01:54:31 AM
What do yous make of this? Some low blows from Gatland, he may as well have just come out and called them chokers. And how does he know what the players got up to in the dressing room after the Scotland game?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7949738.stm
Wales 'dislike' Irish - Gatland
Coach Warren Gatland says Wales' players dislike their Irish rivals more than any other team in the Six Nations.
Gatland made his comments ahead of Saturday's crunch clash in Cardiff in which Ireland bid for the Grand Slam and Wales for the championship.
Gatland said: "Probably, out of all the teams in the Six Nations, the Welsh players dislike the Irish the most.
"Players' experiences against Ireland haven't always been the greatest, so they are very motivated."
Gatland had a a 38-Test reign as Ireland coach between 1998 and 2001 and his comments came after he named a team showing eight changes from the line-up that fumbled its way to a 20-15 win against Six Nations wooden-spoon favourites Italy last weekend.
To retain the trophy, Wales must win by 13 points or more - they last achieved that at Ireland's expense 26 years ago - while a victory of any description would secure a third Triple Crown in five seasons.
Gatland added: "It's about winning the game first, win the Triple Crown, deny them the Grand Slam and then see what position we are in.
"There is a lot of pressure and expectation on the Irish team to come to our back-yard and perform.
"After the Scottish game [on Saturday], the Irish players were an hour-and-a-half in the changing room celebrating and singing, so they were clearly happy where they were at.
"It's how they handle that pressure. There has been expectation on them over a number of years and in a couple of World Cups as well.
"At international level, when there has been that expectation either to perform in Six Nations tournaments or World Cups, they've sometimes faltered a little bit.
"It will be interesting to see how [coach] Declan [Kidney] handles that and how the players handle that this week.
"They've performed well in this Six Nations, but we're at home with a massive crowd behind us.
"If you go back to the autumn, they [Ireland ] were talking themselves up a lot before the All Blacks game - and they really performed poorly in that game.
"We've got to really concentrate on ourselves and put them under as much pressure as we can."
Reflecting on events in the Eternal City, Gatland said: "I've been criticised for the number of changes I made, and in hindsight maybe we made too many changes.
"I am not afraid to put my hand up and say maybe it was the wrong decision. Tactically, we got some things wrong against Italy.
"We feel we haven't played as well as we could have done in this Six Nations and we want to address that.
"To win the title again would be a massive achievement. If we play to our potential on Saturday, we are capable of winning and winning well."
He added: "With a healthy head-start, you have to say Ireland are probably favourites to take the title.
"But we are confident we can come up with a win - and who knows what will happen if we can get ourselves ahead in the game and that Millennium Stadium factor begins to kick in?"
No harm will motivate us further if possible. Id say thats bullshit about the celebrations, and the Welsh would hate the English more id guess. Gatlands full of shite is the conclusion i come to. Cant wait, should be a cracker.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on March 18, 2009, 07:27:50 AM
No harm will motivate us further if possible. Id say thats bullshit about the celebrations, and the Welsh would hate the English more id guess. Gatlands full of shite is the conclusion i come to. Cant wait, should be a cracker.
The Welsh fans definitely hate the English more.
When they beat us in Cardiff 4 years ago to win the Slam the fans were singing - "you can shove yer sweet chariots up yer hole"
I welcome comments like this from Gatland. They are focussing on Ireland rather than their own task in hand. Kidney will handle this well by not reacting.
Gatland is rapidly turning into a hateful dick.
I know he got the shaft from IReland, but Jaysus he holds a grudge.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 18, 2009, 10:49:33 AM
Gatland is rapidly turning into a hateful dick.
I know he got the shaft from IReland, but Jaysus he holds a grudge.
Ireland were right to get rid of him! remember his 14 man lineout against Argentina - pathetic!!
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 18, 2009, 10:49:33 AM
Gatland is rapidly turning into a hateful dick.
I know he got the shaft from IReland, but Jaysus he holds a grudge.
He also got his first shot at professional coaching with Connacht and then Ireland. You'd think that would mean something to him but he still seems very bitter about receiving the bullet so fast Eddie could take over.
I was in Wales for the Ireland-England game and the Welsh were most definatley on our side, not that it matters come Saturday but Gatland is obviously talking out his hoop. He's just trying to play the mind games, I wouldn't give it much heed.
Badly conceived and poorly targetted attempt at mind games from gatland.
Yeah it's not a Fergie Rafa situation, Kidney is far too shrewd/composed to buy into any of that nonsense and he'll know exactly how to use comments like that. Johnson would be the kind of boy to respond to this crap and lose the head but given Kidney's history at the mind games I wouldn't expect him to be caught out with this nonsense.
Gatlands comments are even odder when you think he has an Irish man training the team
Has he? Who's that?
Sorry - took me a while to dig it up gain...
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=10063.0;wap2
I think he advises Man Utd also from what a guy from Monaghan told me.
Interesting article.
Sorry folks about what I said about Barnes. I must have been thinking of someone else like Moore. Anyway, sorry for making an arse of it.
Have no idea what Gatland is playing at, very premiership soccer like and to be honest makes him look like a eejit. Kidney is one coach you don't do mind games with and I'd imagine Gatland is trying to deflect from his terrible selection against Italy and why Wales need to beat Ireland by 13 points to win the championship.
Got beat by the Irish
Got beat by the Scots
The French had a struggle . . .
But as long as we beat the English we don't care.
No way the Welsh hate the Irish more than the English. Wales, Scotland and Ireland all like to stick it to Cruel Britannia.
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 18, 2009, 02:16:59 PM
Sorry folks about what I said about Barnes. I must have been thinking of someone else like Moore. Anyway, sorry for making an arse of it.
Would you have been thinking bout Stephen Jones?
Quote from: JMohan on March 18, 2009, 01:57:23 PM
Sorry - took me a while to dig it up gain...
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=10063.0;wap2
I think he advises Man Utd also from what a guy from Monaghan told me.
Interesting article.
Excellent stuff JMohan.
thanks for that
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 18, 2009, 02:16:59 PM
Sorry folks about what I said about Barnes. I must have been thinking of someone else like Moore. Anyway, sorry for making an arse of it.
Or Jonathan Davies
Quote from: turk on March 18, 2009, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: JMohan on March 18, 2009, 01:57:23 PM
Sorry - took me a while to dig it up gain...
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=10063.0;wap2
I think he advises Man Utd also from what a guy from Monaghan told me.
Interesting article.
Excellent stuff JMohan.
thanks for that
Got a email last night to say he's making an appearance speaking at this - as a stand-in for Mike McGurn who supposedly can't make it - but dat's not confirmed. (That was why I looked him up.)
http://www.sportsmanager.ie/uploaded/7244/wicklow_gaa_coaching_conference_2009.pdf
If he is I'll probably go to it - looks good
9.00 am Registration - Exhibition Viewing
9.30 – 9.55 Opening Address Mick O Dwyer & Andy O Brien
10.00 – 11.00 Strength & Conditioning – Practical Mike McGurn - Former Irish Rugby & Current Osprey's Fitness Coach
11.15 – 12.00 Mental Preparation & Motivation John Carey – Performance Coach
12.15 – 1.00 L U N C H – Exhibition Viewing
1.00 – 2.00 Developing Better Attackers - Practical Trevor Giles - Meath All Star Footballer
2.00 – 3.00 Developing Better Defenders - Practical Paul Curran - Former Dublin All Star
3.00 – 4.00 Game Related Training Drills – Practical Pat O Shea - Former Kerry Manager & Munster Council Coach
1.00 – 2.00 Developing Better Attackers - Practical Tommy Dunne - Tipperary All Star Hurler & Coach
2.00 – 3.00 Developing Better Defenders - Practical Donal O Grady - Former Cork Hurling Manager & Coach
3.00 – 4.00 Game Related Training Drills – Practical George O Conner Wexford - Former Wexford All Star Hurler & Coach
4.00 – 4.15 Closing Session
WICKLOW GAA COACHING & GAMES DEVELOPMENT
Coaches please arrive on time as we have a very busy schedule for the day!
Please bring tracksuit and runners or other appropriate gear depending on weather conditions.
Late Bookings will not be accepted.
Cost: 50 per person (including Lunch, Polo Top and Pen / Folder)
Note:
Closing date for receipt of all Booking forms is Friday 27th March 2009 Conference is open to all Juvenile and Adult Coaches Football & Ladies Football Hurling & Camogie
Further Information Contact: Hugh Kenny 087-2718537
Email: hugh.kenny@games.gaa.ie
The Wicklow GAA Coaching Conference Celebrating 125 years of Cumann Lúthchleas Gael will take place in An Tochar GAA Complex Roundwood on Saturday 25th April 2009.
The Title of the Conference is 'Putting Wicklow First, Developing on our Potential'
By the way - who is Andy O'Brien?
Soccer player?
Hi folks - well it's time for predictions.
I'm predicting an Ireland win. It's all down to the players and in their court and they will have to step up to the mark. They have it all to do in one way and have achieved nothing so far. They won't want to another generation of Irish players that failed. SO i'm predicting they will win by 6 or so points, in an ugly enough match.
Just quick question is Ireland only team that sings their national anthem in a foreign language? Wales by 10
Quote from: YogiBear on March 20, 2009, 01:34:19 PM
Just quick question is Ireland only team that sings their national anthem in a foreign language? Wales by 10
?
Ireland by 6
Quote from: YogiBear on March 20, 2009, 01:34:19 PM
Just quick question is Ireland only team that sings their national anthem in a foreign language? Wales by 10
The Welsh sing theirs in Welsh if that's what you mean.
Ireland by 10
Ireland don't sing their National anthem in a foreign language Yogi. It's sung in Irish at home games and not sung at all at away games.
Ireland by 5. Please.
Wales 18, Ireland 22.
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 20, 2009, 02:07:25 PM
Wales 18, Ireland 22.
yeah shouldnt be far away, although could be something like 9-6 in a bloodbath either! :-\
if your refering to irelands call being sung in english, it isnt the national anthem yogi, so you cant really say that, the actual national anthem is sung in irish
It won't be pretty but we'll be comfortable winners 23 - 15
Quote from: YogiBear on March 20, 2009, 01:34:19 PM
Just quick question is Ireland only team that sings their national anthem in a foreign language? Wales by 10
ireland dont sing theres in a foreign language! ???
Man for man Ireland are a better team I just hope they can put in a big performance which
matches the talent we know they have and the near misses of the past few years can be consigned to history.
61years is too long. Best of luck lads
Quote from: Drumanee 1 on March 20, 2009, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: YogiBear on March 20, 2009, 01:34:19 PM
Just quick question is Ireland only team that sings their national anthem in a foreign language? Wales by 10
ireland dont sing theres in a foreign language! ???
Maybe we should sing Irelands Call in Ulster Scots.
Will enjoy the game, I have a nagging feeling that it wont go well for us, dont ask me why, just a gut feeling.
Hope they can do it but have a nagging feeling that they may just come up short on the day but turn out to be champions
Quote from: YogiBear on March 20, 2009, 01:34:19 PM
Just quick question is Ireland only team that sings their national anthem in a foreign language? Wales by 10
Repeat after me
O flower of Scotland
When will we see
Your like again
That fought and died for
Your wee bit hill and glen
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again
My forecast is Wales to win the match and the Triple Crown, but Ireland to win the Championship on points difference.
Think we should win it - im gona say 28-15 Ireland - we have the players and if 1-15 and any replacements that come on play to their full potential and dont make any stupid mistakes hopefully it'll end a long 61 years and a decade of being the nearly men in the 6 nations.
The Saffers anthem is in four languages!
how about being 13 down with 10 minutes left, only to win a miracle match style victory with 2 late converted tries?
Too much to ask after 61 years?
Really worried about this one, a defeat is on the cards but hoepfully only by 5 points or so!!
John Hayes at 4/1 to shed a tear during the anthems, thats a price you couldn't turn down
Quote from: mrsandman on March 20, 2009, 03:27:58 PM
John Hayes at 4/1 to shed a tear during the anthems, thats a price you couldn't turn down
Wouldnt touch that one lad, Its an away game so our national anthem wont be playing and that is what brings out the passion in the big fella. Suppose he could be bored to tears listening to that Irelands call shite.
Quote from: mc_grens on March 20, 2009, 03:07:04 PM
how about being 13 down with 10 minutes left, only to win a miracle match style victory with 2 late converted tries?
Too much to ask after 61 years?
No thank you.
Early lead with a few O'Gara penalties. Breakthrough with a try just before halftime (O'Driscoll/D'Arcy leading candidates).
Second half contain wound up Dragon run from everywhere until another Ireland try (forwards try say Wallace) finally breaks the resistance.
Welsh get late consolation try, we win by about 10. Everyone happy. ;D
No miracles matches.
Lads stuck in the US, nowhere near and Irish bar....is there any way to stream the game does anyone know?
Heading to cardiff in morning.
Last ireland game I was at there ROG won it with a drop goal at the death...
Quote from: liihb on March 20, 2009, 05:35:58 PM
Lads stuck in the US, nowhere near and Irish bar....is there any way to stream the game does anyone know?
Try justin.tv quality might not be great but better than nothing
The last week has worked out well for Ireland.
With only a 7 day turnaround between games and a national holiday in between, the Grand Slam hype hasn't managed to get out of control.
Comments like Gatland's, Guscott's and a few other former players are great material for Kidney to focus his players.
Much of the talk is of Ireland being undeserving winners is exactly what we need. Not hyperbole about golden generations and Ireland reaching their destiny.
I think it was the right decision to bring back in O'Leary. He's a better tackler for starters - an O'Gara-Stringer channel would be targetted, and a better kicker also.
I'd expect Ireland to use a lot of Garryowens. Lee Byrne dropped a couple against the French and should be tested. It would be good to keep the Welsh back 3 constantly going back to mop up ball rather than have them hovering near the gain line.
An open game of passing rugby would suit the Welsh, so best thing to do is play it tight and tactical.
These arrogant sheep shaggin welsh c***ts need taken down a peg or two, and agree some of the comments this week should help provide the spur to cary this off.
Defeat is not an option. Henson, Byrne & co should really get their ribs tickled hard in the first ten minutes! See who really wants it most!!
Think we will take them by 5 or 6 pts!
be great to see the IRFU Team get another black eye tomorrow . almost be sweeter if they lost but won the championship . Surely the most meaningless presentation of a cup ever at least since england kept pulling the same trick a few years back
Cymru am byth
Quote from: rosnarun on March 21, 2009, 12:14:04 AM
be great to see the IRFU Team get another black eye tomorrow . almost be sweeter if they lost but won the championship . Surely the most meaningless presentation of a cup ever at least since england kept pulling the same trick a few years back
Cymru am byth
Said like a true Brit lover ;)
Quote from: rosnarun on March 21, 2009, 12:14:04 AM
be great to see the IRFU Team get another black eye tomorrow . almost be sweeter if they lost but won the championship . Surely the most meaningless presentation of a cup ever at least since england kept pulling the same trick a few years back
Cymru am byth
A little harsh there, Rosnarun. I'll be cheering for the Irish team.
Sitting in cardiff as we speak sports fans. Its gonna be a hell of a day. my only concern is the lack of a spark on the bench now that darcy is starting.
the game may end up being decided when bodies tire in the last 20 and we may not have the oomph wales have to bring in.
I have a feeling Geordan murphy might end up being the unlikely hero
By Hugh Farrelly
Saturday March 21 2009
WARREN GATLAND fired another broadside at Ireland yesterday when he accused their coach Declan Kidney of resorting to "cliches and nothing."
Wales take on Ireland in the Millennium Stadium this evening (5.30) when they will attempt to deny the Irish a first Grand Slam in 61 years and secure a Triple Crown and Six Nations title in the process.
However, the build-up to the tournament decider has been dominated by off-pitch matters following the Wales coach's claims that his players dislike the Irish more than any other country in the Six Nations and his assertion that the Ireland players had celebrated in their dressing room for an hour and a half after beating Scotland last weekend.
The Ireland camp refused to be drawn into a slanging match this week beyond team manager Paul McNaughton dismissing the accusation of celebrating for an hour and a half as "nonsense" and "completely wrong."
However, Gatland threw further fuel on the fire yesterday when he said his comments had worked to his team's advantage before adding that: "Perhaps in future I should take a leaf out of Declan Kidney's book.
"That's probably the way to go in future, and then you get cliches and nothing.
"Maybe it has had the desired effect," said the New Zealander, who coached Ireland between 1998 and 2001.
"The great thing about this week is that that's been the issue, there have been no match-ups, big feature articles on our players -- so there has been no pressure on my players this week.
"Perhaps it had the desired effect but perhaps I should have been a little more tempered and said that, out of all the teams in the Six Nations, the team that the Welsh want to beat is the Irish. It's nothing personal against the Irish, I've some great friends there, my daughter was born in Ireland. Please don't take it personally, I spent a long time in Ireland."
When quizzed on his comments about Ireland's reaction to beating Scotland, Gatland said he had been told by a journalist he "trusted" that the Irish team had been singing and celebrating for an hour and a half, but said: "If I've got that wrong, I can only apologise."
At Ireland's press conference yesterday, Kidney and his captain Brian O'Driscoll would not get involved in the controversy, preferring to focus on their Grand Slam tilt.
"I haven't picked up too many newspapers this week, so I've left that up to others to decipher and pick out what was what," said O'Driscoll.
"I don't really personally have anything to say about it. I'm sure they can show their dislike on the pitch tomorrow and we'll show them the respect they deserve."
- Hugh Farrelly
Gatland reckons there's no pressure on his players due to his expert management. Is that why one of the Jones' is in the papers today saying he felt like he has been "on death row" this week waiting for the game. Hopefully the Irish can somehow manage to half fill the stadium. They usually do.
Is it correct ireland dont play national anthem at away games.That is so strange i thought that would be when the players would really need it to raise the old emotions up.
QuoteGatland reckons there's no pressure on his players due to his expert management.
Where was he when Henson and a few more of the Welsh players went on the rip after the English game just a few weeks ago.
The Welsh are very worried, losing a Grand Slam in Cardiff would be painful for them, lets make them feel the pain today. I feel we will win it , am excited.
For those in Cardiff make it a great day and roar your fecking head off.
Paul O'Connell for first try.
I woke about 5am this morning after dreaming I was in the middle of an Irish ruck and Gatland was on the wrong side of the ruck in a Welsh jersey and I was letting the boot into him. I really need to take it easy on the beer.
Quote from: aroundincircles on March 21, 2009, 11:46:14 AM
Is it correct ireland dont play national anthem at away games.That is so strange i thought that would be when the players would really need it to raise the old emotions up.
Don't go there, a travesty no doubt. Best of luck to the lads today, get stuck into them, 5/4 ireland to win the match - get on!
Whats the story then doogie did all the rugby teams hold a meeting and voted they did not want to hear the soldiers song as they did not like it or something?? If that happened the irish are getting soft or something taking that sort of decision lying down.. Not good enough.
Quote from: aroundincircles on March 21, 2009, 12:37:45 PM
Whats the story then doogie did all the rugby teams hold a meeting and voted they did not want to hear the soldiers song as they did not like it or something?? If that happened the irish are getting soft or something taking that sort of decision lying down.. Not good enough.
Are you a bit of a Walter Mitty?
Some outfit that denies there own anthem.
Not the day for that. Should be a great occasion. I really like this team's approach under Kidney - in their attitude and conduct, I mean - don't know enough about tactics to comment on that. You get the sense that they're spot-on mentally and you get the opposite impression of Wales. That makes a huge difference and I have the feeling this team is one you'd want to have your money on when the fat is in the fire and it's all or nothing. I'm confident about my small investment at 2.4.
Quote from: aroundincircles on March 21, 2009, 01:39:46 PM
Some outfit that denies there own anthem.
I bet they can spell though. ::)
The coefficient of indignant barstool patriotism is inversely proportional to the square root of literacy.
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2009, 02:27:55 PM
The coefficient of indignant barstool patriotism is inversely proportional to the square root of literacy.
I know we are not allowed to out posters but I just have a funny feeling:
(http://conor.net/clog/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/srfron250207.jpg)
No matter about reading or writing WHY deny your own national anthem.
Quote from: aroundincircles on March 21, 2009, 02:33:55 PM
No matter about reading or writing WHY deny your own national anthem.
To take a cue from Declan Kidney - the pitch looks in great nick and conditions should be perfect.
Why do you want to out me muppet for asking a question.
Quote from: aroundincircles on March 21, 2009, 02:44:59 PM
Why do you want to out me muppet for asking a question.
Just save it for another time. It has been done to death. Let's just concentrate on the rugby.
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2009, 02:53:12 PM
Quote from: aroundincircles on March 21, 2009, 02:44:59 PM
Why do you want to out me muppet for asking a question.
Just save it for another time. It has been done to death. Let's just concentrate on the rugby.
Fair enough good luck too yous hope yous win and are drunk for three days.
I wont get to see this match today, (driving to Mullingar so will listen on the radio) but I'd probably be a nervous wreck watching it anyway.
Not going to comment too much because other than knowing the rules I know very little about the sport, I just hope they can pull it off today. I feel its now or never for this team, with both France and England away next year it will be very tough to win it then.
Come on Ireland!!
Jesus what a start to the second half!! Need to keep turning the screw they could get another try on the board and let the pack close the game down for the last 20-25 mins.
Quote from: tyroneboi on March 21, 2009, 06:46:48 PM
Jesus what a start to the second half!! Need to keep turning the screw they could get another try on the board and let the pack close the game down for the last 20-25 mins.
It's gonna be a tough last 25 mins. No one is thinking of the championship now. The big one is on!
Heart's in my mouth. COME ON IRELAND. Don't let Wales back into it.
feeling the same way Zig
Ireland discipline has been poor the past 10 mins. Next score is going to be massive!
Jesus are they gonna throw it away through stupid frees for indiscipline? Starting to panic?!
again a pen when in front of the posts
O'Connell, O'Gara and O'Driscoll need to take their leadership to the next level here to get us across the line!
These last 10 mins will be hell to watch!
I'm getting a sinking feeling here....
f**k!
f**king DISASTER!!!
Come on ROG we f**king need you to pull something out of the bag!
COME ONNN!!!!!!!
COME ON ROG YOU f**king LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
COme on lads neealy there im shaking with the nerves!!
Fuckity f**k! Come on!
Disaster
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
That was unbelievable stuff!!! My nerves are away to f**k!
jesus my heart has just started again, fecking briliant
Serious ending. In GAA a long free only determines a win or a draw, in this rugby everything was on that kick!! Famous.!
Unbelievable! How tense was that! Wonderful pictures of Jack Kyle at the end! Brilliant!
Unvelievable stuff. Oh to be in Cardiff tonight.
Paddy Wallace will stop shaking next week I think. Lucky bastard.
People on this board said during the week that if Ireland win the championship without a grand slam then it wud have been fantastic. If Jones had sunk that pentalty you would wonder would O'Driscol have even went up for the trophy. It would have been total heartbreak after that battle!
Like Square Ball said my heart is just starting to work properly now!
Jaysus! ;D
I thought if Henson was taking that last penalty it was going over, when Jones stepped up there was always a chance he'd leave it short. It would have been a tragedy if Ireland had lost the Grand Slam though.
Great stuff from O'Gara with the drop goal. I remember the same happened in 2003.
Jones put the Welsh in the lead at the death and O'Gara replied with a drop goal to win it.
Great win!
Quote from: tyroneboi on March 21, 2009, 07:36:57 PM
People on this board said during the week that if Ireland win the championship without a grand slam then it wud have been fantastic. If Jones had sunk that pentalty you would wonder would O'Driscol have even went up for the trophy. It would have been total heartbreak after that battle!
Like Square Ball said my heart is just starting to work properly now!
I don't think many people thought they'd be so determined to throw it all away through stupid penalties! Serious drinking in Ireland and Cardiff tonight.
I assume they'll be given a parade in Dublin?
Only sorta taking it all in now, I am not a big rugby fan, only the six nations, big european games and internationals for me but that was great sporting drama, so happy for the boys there, especially ROG for getting the drop goal after all the stick he has got the last while...
As for O'Driscoll, what more can be said about him that hasn't already? He is a legend, how many times has he got the six nations man of the match awards? I don't think I have ever seen anyone get as many of these awards as him... Player of the tournament by a long way, single handedly dragged Ireland at times..
Great stuff. Thought it was over with the Welsh, but thankfully we got the Grand Slam. Well done lads.
Fair play to Kidney the man must be some coach. I was a touch skeptical of his appointment at the start thinking he was too familiar with a lot of his players but what a guy. Very humble and down to earth. Nice touch to mention all the layers which make up Irish rugby and to credit Eddie O'Sullivan as well.
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 21, 2009, 07:55:41 PM
Only sorta taking it all in now, I am not a big rugby fan, only the six nations, big european games and internationals for me but that was great sporting drama, so happy for the boys there, especially ROG for getting the drop goal after all the stick he has got the last while...
As for O'Driscoll, what more can be said about him that hasn't already? He is a legend, how many times has he got the six nations man of the match awards? I don't think I have ever seen anyone get as many of these awards as him... Player of the tournament by a long way, single handedly dragged Ireland at times..
O'Driscoll is unbelievable. Without knowing too much about the olden days of Irish rugby but surely he and O'Connell will go down as the two most inspirational and influential Irish players ever. When times got tough today in the last 10 mins these two men really got going!
It sounded phenomenal--can't wait to see it on TV tomorrow.
Amazing game - great to see Ireland finally do the Grand Slam. Been knocking on the door almost ten years now - they deserve it!
Fantastic, so proud of them! Even though it was nearly snatched away, we had played so well. Nice to hear ROG there thank Barry McGuigan, Nicky English and David Humphreys (I think) for their well wishes before the game.
Jack Kyle is such a gentleman too.
Me nerves are shot. I aged 10 years from 78 mins to the end.
I looked at the clock.........78.10
I looked at it (I thought) a minute later. 78.20
WTF.
Serious drama. Like a junior scriptwriter's first attempt. Would have been dismissed as too far fetched.
Congrats to Ireland.
I know exactly what you mean Shamrock, couldn't believe how slow the final two minutes were going.
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 21, 2009, 07:55:41 PMAs for O'Driscoll, what more can be said about him that hasn't already? He is a legend, how many times has he got the six nations man of the match awards? I don't think I have ever seen anyone get as many of these awards as him... Player of the tournament by a long way, single handedly dragged Ireland at times..
O'Driscoll really is in a different class.
I just saw the caption during the match the was player of the tournament in '06 and '07.
He will collect the '09 award too.
I also think he probably doesn't get enough credit in Ireland for his standing in the sport. Perhaps the ordinary man on the street mightn't warm to him, but without him there would have been no Grand Slam.
Just got a text from a mate at the match, it had two words and just about sums today up "f**king magic"
Was watching it on Setanta Broadband at work, we got a call with 20 minutes to go and missed the end of the game. Had to get the final score using the computer on the fire engine, the call lasted a lifetime...at least we won in the end, pissed that I missed the end I hope Setanta repeat it tomorrow.
Get a UK proxy and watch it on BBC iPlayer.
Quote from: ziggysego on March 21, 2009, 08:30:07 PM
Get a UK proxy and watch it on BBC iPlayer.
Give me step by step instructions, please Ziggy.
i wont be right for a week! that game had everything
Wheres the thread that had the betting on each irish player to make the lions starting fiteen?
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 21, 2009, 08:45:05 PM
Wheres the thread that had the betting on each irish player to make the lions starting fiteen?
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=11214.0
prob bit out of date now our nail. Ferris odds would certainly have shortened now.
Quote from: tyroneboi on March 21, 2009, 08:48:47 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 21, 2009, 08:45:05 PM
Wheres the thread that had the betting on each irish player to make the lions starting fiteen?
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=11214.0
prob bit out of date now our nail. Ferris odds would certainly have shortened now.
Yeah I know I just wanted to have a look at the odds from back then, see how they would have shortened by now
feckin class..... ;D ;D ;D
(http://www.rbs6nations.com/images/galleries/IrelandGrandSlam725PA.jpg)
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45589000/jpg/_45589520_champs416.jpg)
Sensational. What a great way to win a grand slam. It was better than a 50 point victory to win it that way. I did not think it was a penalty to Wales at the end so justice was done, anyone disagree with that. I though the game itself though was very scrappy and will make an attempt to do some player ratings. I watched in a noisy pub so they are my own opinions and might not correspond with what Hook and Guscott had to say.
15 Kearney - 6.5
Had a bad knock on before being subbed but was solid enough.
14 Bowe - 8
He has to get a good mark for the game clinching try. How sweet was that moment, after going in at half time thinking same old story and then to come out in the first 6 minutes of the second half and score 2 trys, the second under the posts. I was over the moon at that point, think Ray Houghton scoring against England in Stuttgart or against Italy in New York for an equivalent moment of great sporting importance.
13 O'Driscoll - 8
He began the turn around in the second half, the guy is immense and will be the Lions Captain again imho.
12 Darcy - 7.5
Gordon darcy is back from the dead, making breaks, making the gain line on most of his carries and has been under estimated over the years.
11 Fitzgerald - 7.5
Had a great break on the counter attack returning a Welsh kick that might have lead to an Irish score and solid in the rest of his play.
10 O'Gara - 8.5
For the drop goal and the kick that set up Tommy Bowes try, they were game changing moments. Had some hairy moments during the game but delivered when it mattered most.
9 O'Leary - 7
an erratic performance from O'Leary but that mirrored the game where a lot of players made a lot of mistakes, his kicking was a mixed bag, but you can see the importance of his strength and tackling when he went off Stringer got run over by Phillips to help set up the Welsh drop goal.
8 Heaslip - 7
Not his best game of the championship but a decent enough performance from someone who has become one of Irelands players strongest performers on a consistent basis.
7 Wallace - 7
Not the greatest of games from Wallace who slipped on a couple of occasions(as did O'Leary, Stringer and a number of others) but this guy deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as O'Driscoll, O'Connell and Wood. The David O'Leary of Irish rugby, the best back row player for Ireland of this golden era. It is not surprising that we win a grand slam when the coach who thought he wasn't up to it for so long is replaced by Kidney. I think if Kidney had been in charge since 2005 we would probably have had 2 grand slams and Wales 1. Anyway on with the ratings
6 Ferris - not on long enough to be rated
Great championship and this player has arrived and is here to stay, at last a big powerful ulster player on the team to give Ireland a bit of a physical edge that they may have at times lacked(think of Simon Easterby), as good as easterby was Ferris is a big upgrade in this position.
5 O'Connell - 10
To the best of my recollection, he destroyed the Welsh lineout and won the game for us single handedly. Little more needs to be said.
4 - O'Callaghan - 6.5
Must learn not to push Welsh scrum halves, could have cost us a grand slam but we will forgive him
3 Hayes - 7
The scrum did ok today and he even got involved in the loose play passing and running the ball
2 - Flannery - 7.5
The line out held up very well today considering all the other mistakes that were made during the course of the game, and was the basis for this victory
1 - Horan - 7
The Clare man srummaged solidly and was involved in a turnover or 2 in general play
Subs
Leamy - 7.5
Came in after about 10 minutes for ferris and didn't let the side down after coming back from a serious injury and getting injured against the Scots he grabbed this opportunity with both hands and will be hard to keep off the team in future.
Murphy - 7
Had a good clearance to touch and was the last man to touch the ball.
Stringer - 6
Got to the pace of the game straight away and started making mistakes, like everybody else on the team. Got runover by Phillips and got up to redeem himself and drag phillips down but the damage was done and Jones dropped a goal.
Best - Like Stringer found it difficult when he came on into the white heat of battle, but he may claim the Irish number 2 jersey off Flannery in the near future.
Wallace not on long enough to be rated.
Court not on long enough to be rated
On wards and upwards lads, I can't wait for the next world cup, with the exception of Hayes, Dave Wallace and injuries they will all be there again. This is just the beginning ,Kidney is already a legend the real deal as a coach unlike EOS and it is going to be so good for Ireland to have someone like him in the "most important position on the team"
Quote from: Doogie Browser on March 21, 2009, 08:07:55 PM
Fantastic, so proud of them! Even though it was nearly snatched away, we had played so well. Nice to hear ROG there thank Barry McGuigan, Nicky English and David Humphreys (I think) for their well wishes before the game.
Jack Kyle is such a gentleman too.
Indeed. The wife and I were watching a show earlier about an Ulster footballer who was on the "first team to take Sam across the border" and it was all about 'me' and 'us' and 'I' and "nobody else can ever be the first". I've been following Jack Kyle in the media over the past few weeks and he's hardly ever referred to the '48 team, giving the current boys all the credit. Mark of a true and humble gentleman.
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 21, 2009, 08:50:18 PM
Quote from: tyroneboi on March 21, 2009, 08:48:47 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 21, 2009, 08:45:05 PM
Wheres the thread that had the betting on each irish player to make the lions starting fiteen?
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=11214.0
prob bit out of date now our nail. Ferris odds would certainly have shortened now.
Yeah I know I just wanted to have a look at the odds from back then, see how they would have shortened by now
Do you have the updated ones?
There are maybe upward of 10 Irish players that are in with a serious chance of starting the first test but still a lot of rugby to be played between now and then.
fcukin unreal!
Them is players.
Just home from pub.
That there is nearly as good as Kerry winnin an AI!
Not jokin - them boys are unreal!
Would only have a passing interest in Rugby but am always impressed how after 80 minutes of knocking the shite out of each other they are very magnanimous towards the other team, contrast this with the spoilt bitches in the English Premier League.
Quote from: Minder on March 21, 2009, 10:37:58 PM
Would only have a passing interest in Rugby but am always impressed how after 80 minutes of knocking the shite out of each other they are very magnanimous towards the other team, contrast this with the spoilt bitches in the English Premier League.
true Minder, also seen O'Gara going over to the Welsh fella who missed the pen as soon as the wistle blew to talk to him. The level of sportsmanship is way greter in rugby the soccer.
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 21, 2009, 10:17:56 PM
Murphy - 7
Had a good clearance to touch and was the last man to touch the ball.
Stringer - 6
Got to the pace of the game straight away and started making mistakes, like everybody else on the team. Got runover by Phillips and got up to redeem himself and drag phillips down but the damage was done and Jones dropped a goal.
Are you serious??? All Murphy did was drop a simple pass when there wasn't a Welshman within 50 yards of him, the resilt of which was that it ended up costing three points. Phillips did not flatten Stringer, Stringer went to ground as that's the only way he could have brought him down and prevented a try after Phillips had already broken several tackles. O'Connell even said in the interview afterwards that he was the one who missed the original tackle on Phillips. Stringer also made another fantastic tackle (on Williams I think) and expertly controlled the forwards to set up O'Gara's drop goal.
Fantastic win, thoroughly deserved. If they'd lost, some of the lads would never have forgiven themselves for the stupidity of the penalties given away- particularly O'Callaghan and Heaslip. Tosser of an English referee reversed O'Callaghan's penalty, but did nothing later on when Adam Jones mockingly pretended to pat someone (Flannery?) on the head. Stupid haired twat. Paddy Wallace will consider himself the luckiest man in Ireland for the rest of his life.
O'Driscoll certainly player of the tournament, although particular mention must be given to the totemic genius that is Sergio Parisse. He would grace any team in the world, and I couldn't think of anyone more deserving of a try (maybe John Hayes!) today. As poor as Italy have been this year, what they'd be without him is unthinkable.
As all other dates around it didn't suit me, I got lumbered with working the bar in the GAA club today for the game. You'd have sworn Barry Breen had just fisted the ball in the net when ROG's drop goal went over - we were just a few striped ties and posh accents from being a rugger bugger club today.
So I didn't really get a chance to focus on the game. What I did pick up though was that O'Connell was nothing short of wondrous, and that John Hayes put in possibly the most visibly impressive performance of his career. Tommy Bowe was again excellent, and Heaslip is probably now the most rampaging no.8 I've ever seen in an Ireland shirt. As for Wales, Martin Williams really is a class act.
Credit to the defences of both teams. I imagine defensive coaches arcross the world will keep a DVD of that game at the top of their playlist for a number of years. Almost impenetrable lines, ferocious hits, never say die attitides from both.
Williams is indeed a class act for Wales, but not on today's evidence- he was nowhere to be seen. He and Wallace are the two outstanding candidates for the Lions 7 spot (perhaps Worsley as well), and Wallace was vastly superior today.
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 21, 2009, 10:17:56 PM
Sensational. What a great way to win a grand slam. It was better than a 50 point victory to win it that way. I did not think it was a penalty to Wales at the end so justice was done, anyone disagree with that. I though the game itself though was very scrappy and will make an attempt to do some player ratings. I watched in a noisy pub so they are my own opinions and might not correspond with what Hook and Guscott had to say.
15 Kearney - 6.5
Had a bad knock on before being subbed but was solid enough.
14 Bowe - 8
He has to get a good mark for the game clinching try. How sweet was that moment, after going in at half time thinking same old story and then to come out in the first 6 minutes of the second half and score 2 trys, the second under the posts. I was over the moon at that point, think Ray Houghton scoring against England in Stuttgart or against Italy in New York for an equivalent moment of great sporting importance.
13 O'Driscoll - 8
He began the turn around in the second half, the guy is immense and will be the Lions Captain again imho.
12 Darcy - 7.5
Gordon darcy is back from the dead, making breaks, making the gain line on most of his carries and has been under estimated over the years.
11 Fitzgerald - 7.5
Had a great break on the counter attack returning a Welsh kick that might have lead to an Irish score and solid in the rest of his play.
10 O'Gara - 8.5
For the drop goal and the kick that set up Tommy Bowes try, they were game changing moments. Had some hairy moments during the game but delivered when it mattered most.
9 O'Leary - 7
an erratic performance from O'Leary but that mirrored the game where a lot of players made a lot of mistakes, his kicking was a mixed bag, but you can see the importance of his strength and tackling when he went off Stringer got run over by Phillips to help set up the Welsh drop goal.
8 Heaslip - 7
Not his best game of the championship but a decent enough performance from someone who has become one of Irelands players strongest performers on a consistent basis.
7 Wallace - 7
Not the greatest of games from Wallace who slipped on a couple of occasions(as did O'Leary, Stringer and a number of others) but this guy deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as O'Driscoll, O'Connell and Wood. The David O'Leary of Irish rugby, the best back row player for Ireland of this golden era. It is not surprising that we win a grand slam when the coach who thought he wasn't up to it for so long is replaced by Kidney. I think if Kidney had been in charge since 2005 we would probably have had 2 grand slams and Wales 1. Anyway on with the ratings
6 Ferris - not on long enough to be rated
Great championship and this player has arrived and is here to stay, at last a big powerful ulster player on the team to give Ireland a bit of a physical edge that they may have at times lacked(think of Simon Easterby), as good as easterby was Ferris is a big upgrade in this position.
5 O'Connell - 10
To the best of my recollection, he destroyed the Welsh lineout and won the game for us single handedly. Little more needs to be said.
4 - O'Callaghan - 6.5
Must learn not to push Welsh scrum halves, could have cost us a grand slam but we will forgive him
3 Hayes - 7
The scrum did ok today and he even got involved in the loose play passing and running the ball
2 - Flannery - 7.5
The line out held up very well today considering all the other mistakes that were made during the course of the game, and was the basis for this victory
1 - Horan - 7
The Clare man srummaged solidly and was involved in a turnover or 2 in general play
Subs
Leamy - 7.5
Came in after about 10 minutes for ferris and didn't let the side down after coming back from a serious injury and getting injured against the Scots he grabbed this opportunity with both hands and will be hard to keep off the team in future.
Murphy - 7
Had a good clearance to touch and was the last man to touch the ball.
Stringer - 6
Got to the pace of the game straight away and started making mistakes, like everybody else on the team. Got runover by Phillips and got up to redeem himself and drag phillips down but the damage was done and Jones dropped a goal.
Best - Like Stringer found it difficult when he came on into the white heat of battle, but he may claim the Irish number 2 jersey off Flannery in the near future.
Wallace not on long enough to be rated.
Court not on long enough to be rated
On wards and upwards lads, I can't wait for the next world cup, with the exception of Hayes, Dave Wallace and injuries they will all be there again. This is just the beginning ,Kidney is already a legend the real deal as a coach unlike EOS and it is going to be so good for Ireland to have someone like him in the "most important position on the team"
Would disagree.. For someone only on the field a couple of minutes, he managed to score himself a fat zero in my book for that act of stupidity....
All in all though fantastic achievement with O Drisc and O Connell immense, yet again.
Well done lads!
Ireland looked dead on their feet in the last ten minutes but managed to create an opening that only Johnny Wilkinson bettered. as for the penalties, will its very tense at that time off the game. so much effort put in to win the Grand Slam so lads will foul
i knew Jones would drop short. he would have had no energy before that kick, great atmosphere in club during the match
Quote from: milltown row on March 21, 2009, 11:26:05 PM
Ireland looked dead on their feet in the last ten minutes but managed to create an opening that only Johnny Wilkinson bettered. as for the penalties, will its very tense at that time off the game. so much effort put in to win the Grand Slam so lads will foul
i knew Jones would drop short. he would have had no energy before that kick, great atmosphere in club during the match
Yeah, but did Wilkinson not need 2 or 3 attempts to slot his over? Our ROG only needs one!
Quote from: gallsman on March 21, 2009, 10:54:13 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 21, 2009, 10:17:56 PM
Murphy - 7
Had a good clearance to touch and was the last man to touch the ball.
Stringer - 6
Got to the pace of the game straight away and started making mistakes, like everybody else on the team. Got runover by Phillips and got up to redeem himself and drag phillips down but the damage was done and Jones dropped a goal.
Are you serious??? All Murphy did was drop a simple pass when there wasn't a Welshman within 50 yards of him, the resilt of which was that it ended up costing three points. Phillips did not flatten Stringer, Stringer went to ground as that's the only way he could have brought him down and prevented a try after Phillips had already broken several tackles. O'Connell even said in the interview afterwards that he was the one who missed the original tackle on Phillips. Stringer also made another fantastic tackle (on Williams I think) and expertly controlled the forwards to set up O'Gara's drop goal.
That dropped pass was an over cooked pass by Stringer. Stringer missed a tackle on Phillips and then got up and tackled him 10 yards closer to the Irish goal line, hardly the best example of Stringers passing ability. I saw that replayed a few times. Like I said I had no help from the tv people or the people in tomorrows papers, stick up your own player ratings so we can have a laugh at them too.
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 21, 2009, 11:31:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 21, 2009, 10:54:13 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 21, 2009, 10:17:56 PM
Murphy - 7
Had a good clearance to touch and was the last man to touch the ball.
Stringer - 6
Got to the pace of the game straight away and started making mistakes, like everybody else on the team. Got runover by Phillips and got up to redeem himself and drag phillips down but the damage was done and Jones dropped a goal.
Are you serious??? All Murphy did was drop a simple pass when there wasn't a Welshman within 50 yards of him, the resilt of which was that it ended up costing three points. Phillips did not flatten Stringer, Stringer went to ground as that's the only way he could have brought him down and prevented a try after Phillips had already broken several tackles. O'Connell even said in the interview afterwards that he was the one who missed the original tackle on Phillips. Stringer also made another fantastic tackle (on Williams I think) and expertly controlled the forwards to set up O'Gara's drop goal.
That dropped pass was an over cooked pass by Stringer. Stringer missed a tackle on Phillips and then got up and tackled him 10 yards closer to the Irish goal line, hardly the best example of Stringers passing ability. I saw that replayed a few times. Like I said I had no help from the tv people or the people in tomorrows papers, stick up your own player ratings so we can have a laugh at them too.
Overcooked pass? Whatever about the quality of the pass (I thought it was fine, the issue was that the three of them were so fecking static), there was not the slightest hint of Welsh pressure. For a player of Murphy's experience and alleged class to drop that pass was scandalous.
Quote from: Yes I Would on March 21, 2009, 11:24:01 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 21, 2009, 10:17:56 PM
he came on into the white heat of battle, but he may claim the Irish number 2 jersey off Flannery in the near future.
Wallace not on long enough to be rated.
Court not on long enough to be rated
On wards and upwards lads, I can't wait for the next world cup, with the exception of Hayes, Dave Wallace and injuries they will all be there again. This is just the beginning ,Kidney is already a legend the real deal as a coach unlike EOS and it is going to be so good for Ireland to have someone like him in the "most important position on the team"
Would disagree.. For someone only on the field a couple of minutes, he managed to score himself a fat zero in my book for that act of stupidity....
All in all though fantastic achievement with O Drisc and O Connell immense, yet again.
Well done lads!
i missed that are you implying that he gave away the last penalty, please expand on that.
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 21, 2009, 11:38:53 PM
Quote from: Yes I Would on March 21, 2009, 11:24:01 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 21, 2009, 10:17:56 PM
he came on into the white heat of battle, but he may claim the Irish number 2 jersey off Flannery in the near future.
Wallace not on long enough to be rated.
Court not on long enough to be rated
On wards and upwards lads, I can't wait for the next world cup, with the exception of Hayes, Dave Wallace and injuries they will all be there again. This is just the beginning ,Kidney is already a legend the real deal as a coach unlike EOS and it is going to be so good for Ireland to have someone like him in the "most important position on the team"
Would disagree.. For someone only on the field a couple of minutes, he managed to score himself a fat zero in my book for that act of stupidity....
All in all though fantastic achievement with O Drisc and O Connell immense, yet again.
Well done lads!
i missed that are you implying that he gave away the last penalty, please expand on that.
They had the game won and he came in at the side and blatantly gave the penalty way. He was actually standing at the side of the ruck, and just as the Irish appeared to be turning it over he stupidly stuck his hands in and nearly lost everything. Were you watching the match at all?? The camera focused on him just before the presentation and he had the most sheepish look ever on his face.
Pure drama. Jeez that match is the epitomy of what sport is about. Throughly deserved - I think Hook was right in that it was only pressure and nerves that stopped them pulling away. Shocking indiscipline too though for a couple of the penalties. Thought O'Driscoll and O'Connell were absolutely immense. Actually thought O'Connell should have been MOTM.
Anyway analysising a match like that is almost pointless. Just defies belief. Greatest day for Irish sport I can remember.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on March 22, 2009, 01:04:10 AM
Pure drama. Jeez that match is the epitomy of what sport is about. Throughly deserved - I think Hook was right in that it was only pressure and nerves that stopped them pulling away. Shocking indiscipline too though for a couple of the penalties. Thought O'Driscoll and O'Connell were absolutely immense. Actually thought O'Connell should have been MOTM.
Anyway analysising a match like that is almost pointless. Just defies belief. Greatest day for Irish sport I can remember.
YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSssss.
Don't want to say much more than the above but just thanks to the squad.
What a roller coaster but we got there in the end. That was the most nerve wrecking 2nd half imaginable, O'Gara I thought had a horrible 1st half but boy did he come back in the 2nd half.
The big two O's as usual were phenomenal.
Other than those two I thought a very nervous performance was enhanced by the likes of Tommy Bowe, Marcus Horan, John Hayes and a solid centre partnership.
I thought Stephen Jones was a class act and didn't deserve to be the man who missed the all important kick. Nice to see O'Gara run straight to him after.
But it is all about us now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We needed that.
'Twas something else - fantastic result.
Paddy Wallace = Luckiest man in the world yesterday
jeez, that was while tense.
Nail-biting stuff.
Deadly result though.
P.S. does jeremy dungbag guscott annoy anyone else as much as he annoys me?
Well done Ireland!
Kidney a legend up there with the great managers I've seen in my lifetime : Alex Ferguson, Mickey Harte, Jack O'Connor, Brian Cody - all humble and very intelligent characters , think thats their secret
Great day for Irish sport - up there with Genoa 90, New York 94, Stuttgart 88, Cardiff 06, Kerry beating Cork in 91 and Kerry beating Armagh in 06!
Comhghairdicheas Eire!
Havent read back so dont know if this is posted but listen to the commentry at 2.40 on wahoooooooo
Forgot the link :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFbe7vvEqjA
Yeah WTF was Paddy Wallace at
Paddy Wallace and DOC luckiest pair of men....though Barnes not entirely consistent IMO.
Kidney is some man ...unbelievable team spirit and contributions from BOD/POC.
In my top 3 sporting evevts ever now.
Very hungover and vey happy to be an Irishman today what a way to win and what a team.
Very happy man today.
Very surprised to a post by myself above at 2.40am and even more surprised that it is almost coherent. Almost.
Having just watched the final penalty decision again, I am still not sure that what the ref did was right. From what I could see it should have been a penalty the other way for holding on. Wallace did not come in from the side he was a part of the ruck and moved towards the side to try and pick up the ball, maybe the ref had already said hands away its a ruck but I didn't hear that. I can't see the start of the play on the replay I have so it may not have been a ruck when Wallace first put hands on the ball. I thought the ref gave a couple of other dogy penalty decisions to Wales as well.
I thought the ref was a bit of a lottery and had way too much influence on the game. A penalty ratio of 17-4 seems highly unusual too. Though I did think it was justice that O'Gara missed the first one - looked like a dive to me. I didn't see any contact. But when I mentioned it in the pub last night I was shouted down. "The foot came out", I was told. I didn't see it. What do people think? (Looking for ammo to resume the debate tonight).
The foot definitely went out, but I feel O'Gara made a meal of it.
Quote from: Hardy on March 22, 2009, 12:33:07 PM
I thought the ref was a bit of a lottery and had way too much influence on the game. A penalty ratio of 17-4 seems highly unusual too. Though I did think it was justice that O'Gara missed the first one - looked like a dive to me. I didn't see any contact. But when I mentioned it in the pub last night I was shouted down. "The foot came out", I was told. I didn't see it. What do people think? (Looking for ammo to resume the debate tonight).
It did but on such a great day for Irish Rugby and Sport how did you end up debating that ??
p.s hope u do your grand national thing again this year.
Well done Ireland!!
Shall we forgive the Poyntzpass man for coming on and throwing a forward pass, and then giving away the final penalty?
Aye, why not.
At last ! We have been there or thereabouts for 7/8 years.
4 Triple Crowns ow in 6 years, with Italy never a problem, it was always the French who gave us the problems. 2 years ago, the first game in Croke Park, i thought was our best chance of a grand slam. Yet again, failure to beat the French was our downfall.
With a new management in place this year, a proven successful manager to boot, and with the French at home, i knew this was a fantastic chance of the clean sweep. thankfully we held off the French and went on from there.
Now where ?
I think this a fantastic oppurtunity for the world cup. The players and management will be looking to do this back to back, but with england and France away next year, it will a tall order. A solid season would do. then in world cup year, aim to do this again. I honestly think that with Kidney in charge we could be world champions. Am i being too optimistic here ?
Quote from: cavan4ever on March 22, 2009, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 22, 2009, 12:33:07 PM
I thought the ref was a bit of a lottery and had way too much influence on the game. A penalty ratio of 17-4 seems highly unusual too. Though I did think it was justice that O'Gara missed the first one - looked like a dive to me. I didn't see any contact. But when I mentioned it in the pub last night I was shouted down. "The foot came out", I was told. I didn't see it. What do people think? (Looking for ammo to resume the debate tonight).
It did but on such a great day for Irish Rugby and Sport how did you end up debating that ??
Good point and I often give out here about people dwelling on the negative. It wasn't all we discussed. But I would hate to see the soccer disease infect rugby as well as gaelic.
Quote
p.s hope u do your grand national thing again this year.
I'll be doing it OK for the crack. But don't be expecting miracles. The stats have proven amazingly reliable in the National though, above all races. Didn't work great for this year's Cheltenham, unfortunately.
Hardy you werent alone in your ROG thoughts ...this is from planet rugby
Man of the match: The officials gave it to Brian O'Driscoll but that strikes us as a cliched cop-out. Instead we give it to the man who did so much damage to the Welsh challenge by ruining their line-out: Paul O'Connell.
Moment of the match: No possible candidate other than the moment the goal-kick from Stephen Jones dropped under the bar. Relief and Joy all rolled into one.
Villain of the match: Hmmm - we'll refrain from giving it to Ronan O'Gara for his theatrical tumble in the first minute on sentimental grounds. No award.
In fairness to ROG he worked through his wobble and eventually found key to breaking down wales by targeting the Henson/Williams channel .
Stephen Jones ( the " journalist" ) is at it in ST again today .... no BOD/POC in " his" lions team
O'Gara has some guts, it looked like he was hit by a bus and run over by a JCB and got up to play his Rugby, attempting to kick the perfect angled balls.
Great team performance in a game which was just surreal. They have been knocking on that door of destiny for years now.
I kinda knew that last penalty wouldn't make it all the way :)
Quote from: bcarrier on March 22, 2009, 02:13:14 PM
Hardy you werent alone in your ROG thoughts ...this is from planet rugby
Man of the match: The officials gave it to Brian O'Driscoll but that strikes us as a cliched cop-out. Instead we give it to the man who did so much damage to the Welsh challenge by ruining their line-out: Paul O'Connell.
Moment of the match: No possible candidate other than the moment the goal-kick from Stephen Jones dropped under the bar. Relief and Joy all rolled into one.
Villain of the match: Hmmm - we'll refrain from giving it to Ronan O'Gara for his theatrical tumble in the first minute on sentimental grounds. No award.
In fairness to ROG he worked through his wobble and eventually found key to breaking down wales by targeting the Henson/Williams channel .
Stephen Jones ( the " journalist" ) is at it in ST again today .... no BOD/POC in " his" lions team
know nothing of this guy, but surely he is on the wind up, or just knows nothing!!
Jones is Welsh. He picked 9 Welsh players for the Lions test team. That says all you need to know about him.
He picked Shanklin and Henson ahead of O'Driscoll.
Kenny Logan told him that he needed to call a taxi and to come back tomorrow after he said he was leaving O'Driscoll out.
BTW one of the most memorable images of the game was O'Driscoll picking up Shanklin and driving him backwards. I wonder did Steve Jones miss that bit?
Good photo in the ET
(http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00507/Ireland_507800a.jpg)
What class of a flag is that? :o
grand slam - the homecoming - RTE 1 today @ 4.45
Not a massive Rugby fan, but really enjoyed this last night. The pub was jammed, and the celebrations for Jones' missed penalty echoed that by Timofte 19 years ago.
With Dunne winning last night, this will be remembered as one of Ireland's greatest sporting days ever.
Quote from: cavan4ever on March 22, 2009, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 22, 2009, 12:33:07 PM
I thought the ref was a bit of a lottery and had way too much influence on the game. A penalty ratio of 17-4 seems highly unusual too. Though I did think it was justice that O'Gara missed the first one - looked like a dive to me. I didn't see any contact. But when I mentioned it in the pub last night I was shouted down. "The foot came out", I was told. I didn't see it. What do people think? (Looking for ammo to resume the debate tonight).
It did but on such a great day for Irish Rugby and Sport how did you end up debating that ??
p.s hope u do your grand national thing again this year.
No the Welsh player obviously obstructed him, they were at it all day and got pulled up for it once. He may or may not have dived obstruction is still a penalty though.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 22, 2009, 05:17:15 PM
David Walsh An eternal optimist, despite covering Irish rugby for many years. Co-author of Lawrence Dallaglio's autobiography
15 Delon Armitage (England)
14 Shane Williams (Wales)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland)
12 Jamie Roberts (Wales)
11 Luke Fitzgerald (Ireland)
10 Danny Cipriani (England)
9 Mike Phillips (Wales)
1 Gethin Jenkins (Wales)
2 Rory Best (Ireland)
3 Euan Murray (Scotland)
4 Paul O'Connell (capt) (Ireland)
5 Alun-Wyn Jones (Wales)
6 Tom Croft (England)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Ireland)
7 Martyn Williams (Wales)
Has the number 2 moved or something? I saw him yesterday under a suspicious flag :D
Anyone else see Wallace today? When asked what was going through his head when giving away the final penalty he replied that he felt the game was in need of a bit of excitement...
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 22, 2009, 05:15:41 PM
Quote from: cavan4ever on March 22, 2009, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 22, 2009, 12:33:07 PM
I thought the ref was a bit of a lottery and had way too much influence on the game. A penalty ratio of 17-4 seems highly unusual too. Though I did think it was justice that O'Gara missed the first one - looked like a dive to me. I didn't see any contact. But when I mentioned it in the pub last night I was shouted down. "The foot came out", I was told. I didn't see it. What do people think? (Looking for ammo to resume the debate tonight).
It did but on such a great day for Irish Rugby and Sport how did you end up debating that ??
p.s hope u do your grand national thing again this year.
No the Welsh player obviously obstructed him, they were at it all day and got pulled up for it once. He may or may not have dived obstruction is still a penalty though.
I apologise to ROG. I had a chance to look at the highlights this aftteroon and it's clear from angles I didn't see yesterday that yer man stuck out his leg and tripped him.
Quote from: bridgegael on March 22, 2009, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: bcarrier on March 22, 2009, 02:13:14 PM
Hardy you werent alone in your ROG thoughts ...this is from planet rugby
Man of the match: The officials gave it to Brian O'Driscoll but that strikes us as a cliched cop-out. Instead we give it to the man who did so much damage to the Welsh challenge by ruining their line-out: Paul O'Connell.
Moment of the match: No possible candidate other than the moment the goal-kick from Stephen Jones dropped under the bar. Relief and Joy all rolled into one.
Villain of the match: Hmmm - we'll refrain from giving it to Ronan O'Gara for his theatrical tumble in the first minute on sentimental grounds. No award.
In fairness to ROG he worked through his wobble and eventually found key to breaking down wales by targeting the Henson/Williams channel .
Stephen Jones ( the " journalist" ) is at it in ST again today .... no BOD/POC in " his" lions team
know nothing of this guy, but surely he is on the wind up, or just knows nothing!!
Stephen Jones is a numpty of the highest order, listened to the radio on the way up from Newbridge this evening and both Shane Bryne and Dennis Hickie had a laugh at his "dropping" of BOD.
Even with my limited knowledge of world rugby, to suggest Henson is a better player than O'Driscoll is completely farcical and deviod of any thought process other than a desire to stoke up publicity.
Quote from: thewobbler on March 21, 2009, 11:13:41 PM
As all other dates around it didn't suit me, I got lumbered with working the bar in the GAA club today for the game. You'd have sworn Barry Breen had just fisted the ball in the net when ROG's drop goal went over - we were just a few striped ties and posh accents from being a rugger bugger club today.
So I didn't really get a chance to focus on the game. What I did pick up though was that O'Connell was nothing short of wondrous, and that John Hayes put in possibly the most visibly impressive performance of his career. Tommy Bowe was again excellent, and Heaslip is probably now the most rampaging no.8 I've ever seen in an Ireland shirt. As for Wales, Martin Williams really is a class act.
Credit to the defences of both teams. I imagine defensive coaches arcross the world will keep a DVD of that game at the top of their playlist for a number of years. Almost impenetrable lines, ferocious hits, never say die attitides from both.
Mile buiochas to the Wobbler for serving me pints all evening....great atmosphere about the club yesterday....I know sweet FA about the the game as did the boys I was pinting with but....but we knew enough to have a party. Thanks for the hangover ROG, BOD and POC.... ;)
BTW reading Stephen Jones in the Times today and he says he wouldnt have O'Driscoll in the Lions team..... what is his problem???
Fantastic occasion with a fitting ending. That will go into the memory bank and will go down as one of the 'Where were you when ...' moments in irish sport.
As for Jones, this guy winds me up! I'm surprised nobody has mentioned who he has propping the scrum in his team. Personally, I don't rate Flannery as a hooker (never have and never will), but to put him in at prop? Surely this is a misprint??
As for my lions test team, here goes :-
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ross Ford
3. Euan Murray
4. Paul O'Connell (Captain)
5. Alun Wynn Jones
6. Ryan Jones
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Dwayne Peel
10. Jonny Wilkinson (if he can play 6-7 club games in a row before the end of the season) If not, Stephen Jones
11. Shane Williams
12. Gavin Henson
13. Superman
14. Luke Fitzgerald
15. Lee Byrne
The people i found difficult to leave out were Phil Vickery, Sheridan (his world cup was tremendous), Rory Best, Ferris, Martyn Williams, Powell, Blair, Roberts, Kearney. I also think Riki Flutey is quite underrated and could come into the reckoning
My team:
1. Andrew Sheridan
2. Jerry Flannery
3. Phil Vickery
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Martyn Williams
8. Andy Powell
9. Mike Phillips
10. James Hook
11. Shane Williams
12. Riki Flutey
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Lee Byrne
With replacements Euan Murray, Rory Best, David Wallace (Ferris is cover for lock), Jamie Heaslip, Dwayne Peel (Mike Blair if yer man is still injured), Danny Cipriani, Tom Shanklin.
Quote from: Tim Buzaglo on March 22, 2009, 09:09:37 PM
Fantastic occasion with a fitting ending. That will go into the memory bank and will go down as one of the 'Where were you when ...' moments in irish sport.
As for Jones, this guy winds me up! I'm surprised nobody has mentioned who he has propping the scrum in his team. Personally, I don't rate Flannery as a hooker (never have and never will), but to put him in at prop? Surely this is a misprint??
As for my lions test team, here goes :-
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ross Ford
3. Euan Murray
4. Paul O'Connell (Captain)
5. Alun Wynn Jones
6. Ryan Jones
7. David Wallace
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Dwayne Peel
10. Jonny Wilkinson (if he can play 6-7 club games in a row before the end of the season) If not, Stephen Jones
11. Shane Williams
12. Gavin Henson
13. Superman
14. Luke Fitzgerald
15. Lee Byrne
The people i found difficult to leave out were Phil Vickery, Sheridan (his world cup was tremendous), Rory Best, Ferris, Martyn Williams, Powell, Blair, Roberts, Kearney. I also think Riki Flutey is quite underrated and could come into the reckoning
I'd agree with that a lot of that team, few changes though. Think Ferris has outshone Jones all tournament and Heaslip has completely eclipsed Powell.
I don't think Wilkinson should be on the tour at all, he's too much of a liability injury-wise. Also, he'll be nowhere near up to the speed of Test match rugby, with Newcastle not in the Heineken Cup. I don't believe anyone not playng international rugby should be selected at all- Dallaglio and Back went in 2005 and were awful, so hopefully all the English calls for Wilkinson, Cipriani and Lewsey are in vain.
I fear for the worst though.
Here's my team, with potential replacements in brackets.
1) G Jenkins (Sheridan)
2) R Ford/J Flannery/R Best/M Rees
3) E Murray (Hayes/Vickery)
4) AW Jones (DOC)
5) POC (Gough)
6) S Ferris (Croft)
7) D Wallace
8) J Heaslip (R Jones)
9) D Peel (Ellis)
10 S Jones (O'Gara)
11) S Williams (Fitzgerald)
12) Flutey (D'Arcy/Roberts)
13) BOD (Evans)
14) T Bowe (Cueto)
15) Byrne (Kearney)
I have no doubt Armitage will go. He's improved over the last two games but Byrne and Kearney are streets ahead
Every year I scratch my head at this Lions thing.
It's like earning a place on the Ulster team and taking on Kerry.
A bit early to be picking a lions team before a squad has been picked and the form of players at the time of the tour can be seen but here goes.
Kearney
Williams
O'Driscoll
Darcy
Sackey
Hook
Peel
Jenkins
Flannery
Vickery
O'Callaghan
O'Connell
Wallace
Williams
Heaslip
Play a left and right flanker like the French do rather than openside and blindside. That is 8 Irish players, that is 8 Irish, 5 welsh and 2 English players based on the form of the tournament
The result on Saturday was fantastic and over the game itself and the tournament as a whole Ireland are worthy Grand Slam winners. O Driscoll has been magnificient and Kidney's decision to maintain him as captain and in the face of public discontent and behind the scenes concerns between the players over his role it was a very brave one. O'Connell is getting back to the form he has shown previously and the likes of Heaslip, Ferris and Bowe have been immense. O Gara showed that he has huge balls when push came to shove and his kick will be immortalised in RTE adverts fro the next 10 years.
Now, to put a different angle on things and I don't know if it has been mentioned already as I haven't read through things. Does anyone else feel that Jones pulled his kick? He is a seriously professional player and one of the ones you would put your house on. The kick was far out, but not so far as he wasn't able to do it. It was straight in front of the goals. Wales were not going to win the championship, they would have won the Triple Crown, but that means nothing really these days. It was a nothing kick from a Wales perspective. He normally goes through a routine but he seemed to rush through the kick, it was away nearly before the cameras went back to it. That is very unlike a kicker who is giving it his full. Only my opinion, but perhaps he saw the opportunity to do something nice for fellow professionals and realised that on the day Wales did not deserve it?
It was the first thought that came into my head BC, but no one could kick a ball from 48m and be able to drop it just a yard short, it was on target, just lacked the extra yard. I can't see how anyone could kick it just like that, if he wanted to miss it it would be easier to put it wide of the posts and give it the distance.
Quote from: stephenite on March 23, 2009, 09:41:20 AM
It was the first thought that came into my head BC, but no one could kick a ball from 48m and be able to drop it just a yard short, it was on target, just lacked the extra yard. I can't see how anyone could kick it just like that, if he wanted to miss it it would be easier to put it wide of the posts and give it the distance.
The things is I have no doubt that he could kick it and leave it a yard short. Top place kickers of every sport are so good that they know exactly how much they need to put into a kick to get it over. All he needed to do was drop his intensity of the kick by 5 % and it was dropping short. How many times have balls which could easily be kicked over the bar been dropped into the square to engineer a goal, it is the same concept.
QuoteOnly my opinion, but perhaps he saw the opportunity to do something nice for fellow professionals and realised that on the day Wales did not deserve it?
It might explain why O'Gara was all over him, and wore his jersey for the presentation.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: stephenite on March 23, 2009, 09:41:20 AM
It was the first thought that came into my head BC, but no one could kick a ball from 48m and be able to drop it just a yard short, it was on target, just lacked the extra yard. I can't see how anyone could kick it just like that, if he wanted to miss it it would be easier to put it wide of the posts and give it the distance.
The things is I have no doubt that he could kick it and leave it a yard short. Top place kickers of every sport are so good that they know exactly how much they need to put into a kick to get it over. All he needed to do was drop his intensity of the kick by 5 % and it was dropping short. How many times have balls which could easily be kicked over the bar been dropped into the square to engineer a goal, it is the same concept.
Why would this fella risk his enter career ? Most DG sail over and land 10 yards behind ,if players have such control why over cook it so much? Jasus you lot are unreal he's human not a machine.
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 09:57:40 AM
QuoteOnly my opinion, but perhaps he saw the opportunity to do something nice for fellow professionals and realised that on the day Wales did not deserve it?
It might explain why O'Gara was all over him, and wore his jersey for the presentation.
Awe ok so Dublin didn't get beaten by Tyrone last August . We wanted to do something nice ::)
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 09:59:42 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: stephenite on March 23, 2009, 09:41:20 AM
It was the first thought that came into my head BC, but no one could kick a ball from 48m and be able to drop it just a yard short, it was on target, just lacked the extra yard. I can't see how anyone could kick it just like that, if he wanted to miss it it would be easier to put it wide of the posts and give it the distance.
The things is I have no doubt that he could kick it and leave it a yard short. Top place kickers of every sport are so good that they know exactly how much they need to put into a kick to get it over. All he needed to do was drop his intensity of the kick by 5 % and it was dropping short. How many times have balls which could easily be kicked over the bar been dropped into the square to engineer a goal, it is the same concept.
Why would this fella risk his enter career ? Most DG sail over and land 10 yards behind ,if players have such control why over cook it so much? Jasus you lot are unreal he's human not a machine.
Why would he have kicked the Drop goal 5-6 minutes earlier if he was thinking like that.
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 09:59:42 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: stephenite on March 23, 2009, 09:41:20 AM
It was the first thought that came into my head BC, but no one could kick a ball from 48m and be able to drop it just a yard short, it was on target, just lacked the extra yard. I can't see how anyone could kick it just like that, if he wanted to miss it it would be easier to put it wide of the posts and give it the distance.
The things is I have no doubt that he could kick it and leave it a yard short. Top place kickers of every sport are so good that they know exactly how much they need to put into a kick to get it over. All he needed to do was drop his intensity of the kick by 5 % and it was dropping short. How many times have balls which could easily be kicked over the bar been dropped into the square to engineer a goal, it is the same concept.
Why would this fella risk his enter career ? Most DG sail over and land 10 yards behind ,if players have such control why over cook it so much? Jasus you lot are unreal he's human not a machine.
DG's are during the game play and adrenalin will always push it further. A penalty is more controlled and you have more ability to manipulate. Also DG's are normally closer in than most penalties. I just found it strange how such an experienced kicker, one of the best in the game, rushed such an important game winning kick. If someone did that in an AI final his hole would be rightly kicked.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 09:59:42 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: stephenite on March 23, 2009, 09:41:20 AM
It was the first thought that came into my head BC, but no one could kick a ball from 48m and be able to drop it just a yard short, it was on target, just lacked the extra yard. I can't see how anyone could kick it just like that, if he wanted to miss it it would be easier to put it wide of the posts and give it the distance.
The things is I have no doubt that he could kick it and leave it a yard short. Top place kickers of every sport are so good that they know exactly how much they need to put into a kick to get it over. All he needed to do was drop his intensity of the kick by 5 % and it was dropping short. How many times have balls which could easily be kicked over the bar been dropped into the square to engineer a goal, it is the same concept.
Why would this fella risk his enter career ? Most DG sail over and land 10 yards behind ,if players have such control why over cook it so much? Jasus you lot are unreal he's human not a machine.
DG's are during the game play and adrenalin will always push it further. A penalty is more controlled and you have more ability to manipulate. Also DG's are normally closer in than most penalties. I just found it strange how such an experienced kicker, one of the best in the game, rushed such an important game winning kick. If someone did that in an AI final his hole would be rightly kicked.
I've seen T Feron talking less bollocks than you are currently
Henson normally kicks the long ranges ones but he didnt have the bottle to kick it after missing one earlier, so maybe Jones didnt believe he could make the distance and wasnt confident.
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 10:00:50 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 09:57:40 AM
QuoteOnly my opinion, but perhaps he saw the opportunity to do something nice for fellow professionals and realised that on the day Wales did not deserve it?
It might explain why O'Gara was all over him, and wore his jersey for the presentation.
Awe ok so Dublin didn't get beaten by Tyrone last August . We wanted to do something nice ::)
I don't understand what you mean - and it's not the spelling.
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 10:07:56 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 09:59:42 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: stephenite on March 23, 2009, 09:41:20 AM
It was the first thought that came into my head BC, but no one could kick a ball from 48m and be able to drop it just a yard short, it was on target, just lacked the extra yard. I can't see how anyone could kick it just like that, if he wanted to miss it it would be easier to put it wide of the posts and give it the distance.
The things is I have no doubt that he could kick it and leave it a yard short. Top place kickers of every sport are so good that they know exactly how much they need to put into a kick to get it over. All he needed to do was drop his intensity of the kick by 5 % and it was dropping short. How many times have balls which could easily be kicked over the bar been dropped into the square to engineer a goal, it is the same concept.
Why would this fella risk his enter career ? Most DG sail over and land 10 yards behind ,if players have such control why over cook it so much? Jasus you lot are unreal he's human not a machine.
DG's are during the game play and adrenalin will always push it further. A penalty is more controlled and you have more ability to manipulate. Also DG's are normally closer in than most penalties. I just found it strange how such an experienced kicker, one of the best in the game, rushed such an important game winning kick. If someone did that in an AI final his hole would be rightly kicked.
I've seen T Feron talking less bollocks than you are currently
What's you're f**king problem arsewipe, a player who misses a penalty which he is more than capable of kicking, and I question it, what is wrong with that? He clearly rushed the kick and was not that devastated by it. Head in hands yes, but he wasn't too badly annoyed looking at him. I personally think he would have kicked that over if Wales had been going for the Grand Slam instead of merely a Triple Crown.
Wales still would have won a triple crown if it went over - as a professional rugby player I doubt that he would have handed Ireland a triple crown and a grand slam over his own triple crown, regardless of how meaningless it is supposed to be.
I don't see why he would do something nice for the Irish, as a player you want to win every game
Jones kicked ball out on full just before that to give way lineout inside 22 which lead to Irelands drop goal. I admire the guy but think he actually got a bit rattled in last few minutes. I did think Wales were a miserable shower of feckers for taking drop goal before that though ...they needed two tries to win chamionship and elected instead to stop Ireland.
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 10:13:33 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 10:00:50 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 09:57:40 AM
QuoteOnly my opinion, but perhaps he saw the opportunity to do something nice for fellow professionals and realised that on the day Wales did not deserve it?
It might explain why O'Gara was all over him, and wore his jersey for the presentation.
Awe ok so Dublin didn't get beaten by Tyrone last August . We wanted to do something nice ::)
I don't understand what you mean - and it's not the spelling.
Well Dublin only lost because we wanted to be nice. Sure we can't win a game of football next week and we realised Tyrone deserved a bit more, I heard Kerry did the same.
Quote from: bcarrier on March 23, 2009, 10:15:54 AM
Jones kicked ball out on full just before that to give way lineout inside 22 which lead to Irelands drop goal. I admire the guy but think he actually got a bit rattled in last few minutes. I did think Wales were a miserable shower of feckers for taking drop goal before that though ...they needed two tries to win chamionship and elected instead to stop Ireland.
He copped on after the drop goal that they hadn't time to win the championship so missed the penalty to let ireland win. Decent chap
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 10:07:56 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 09:59:42 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: stephenite on March 23, 2009, 09:41:20 AM
It was the first thought that came into my head BC, but no one could kick a ball from 48m and be able to drop it just a yard short, it was on target, just lacked the extra yard. I can't see how anyone could kick it just like that, if he wanted to miss it it would be easier to put it wide of the posts and give it the distance.
The things is I have no doubt that he could kick it and leave it a yard short. Top place kickers of every sport are so good that they know exactly how much they need to put into a kick to get it over. All he needed to do was drop his intensity of the kick by 5 % and it was dropping short. How many times have balls which could easily be kicked over the bar been dropped into the square to engineer a goal, it is the same concept.
Why would this fella risk his enter career ? Most DG sail over and land 10 yards behind ,if players have such control why over cook it so much? Jasus you lot are unreal he's human not a machine.
DG's are during the game play and adrenalin will always push it further. A penalty is more controlled and you have more ability to manipulate. Also DG's are normally closer in than most penalties. I just found it strange how such an experienced kicker, one of the best in the game, rushed such an important game winning kick. If someone did that in an AI final his hole would be rightly kicked.
I've seen T Feron talking less bollocks than you are currently
What's you're f**king problem arsewipe, a player who misses a penalty which he is more than capable of kicking, and I question it, what is wrong with that? He clearly rushed the kick and was not that devastated by it. Head in hands yes, but he wasn't too badly annoyed looking at him. I personally think he would have kicked that over if Wales had been going for the Grand Slam instead of merely a Triple Crown.
My problem is your talking total shite, the kick was at the edge of his range. It's not like it was a 10 meter kick. As was said before , why not just fluff the DG ?
No expert on rugby but do you not think with the intensity and hits that were going in that Jones simply wasnt fit to kick it that distance at that stage of the match ?
Either way thank god he didnt. (fot the sake of my TV as well)
Quote from: maddog on March 23, 2009, 10:24:00 AM
No expert on rugby but do you not think with the intensity and hits that were going in that Jones simply wasnt fit to kick it that distance at that stage of the match ?
Either way thank god he didnt. (fot the sake of my TV as well)
No he was well fit sure he wanted Ireland to win :D
I would pick entire Irish pack with possible exception of Horan/ DOC for Lions. The had a good discussion on setanta yesterday about it and guys talked about need to keep units that are used to playing together in Lions team. Hayes is a completely unsung hero in this regard ....when POC is stealing the lineouts he is the hydraulic underneath...best tackle count on pitch too.
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 10:13:33 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 10:00:50 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 09:57:40 AM
QuoteOnly my opinion, but perhaps he saw the opportunity to do something nice for fellow professionals and realised that on the day Wales did not deserve it?
It might explain why O'Gara was all over him, and wore his jersey for the presentation.
Awe ok so Dublin didn't get beaten by Tyrone last August . We wanted to do something nice ::)
I don't understand what you mean - and it's not the spelling.
Well Dublin only lost because we wanted to be nice. Sure we can't win a game of football next week and we realised Tyrone deserved a bit more, I heard Kerry did the same.
I still don't understand the analogy - are you trying to say, in your usual impenetrable fashion, that you think there's no place in sport for sporting behaviour? There's no reason to bring Dublin into it, it just confuses people when you're talking about winning things.
Jones got the drop-goal when there was still time (6 mins) for Wales to score another try or two (had they won the ball on resumption) - he screwed that up with his kick to touch. He knew the penalty would have won the game but not the championship for Wales (as the last kick of the game). The kick was accurate, but didn't have the legs to get over. I think (remember, it's just my opinion) O'Gara's reaction suggests that he (O'Gara) thought that Jones should have drilled it, but didn't. Why else would you wear the opponents' jersey on the most important occasion ever in your own (jersey)?? I think it's an interesting psychological question, if no-one else does. I'm genuinely not trying to rain on any parade.
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 10:36:42 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 10:13:33 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 10:00:50 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 09:57:40 AM
QuoteOnly my opinion, but perhaps he saw the opportunity to do something nice for fellow professionals and realised that on the day Wales did not deserve it?
It might explain why O'Gara was all over him, and wore his jersey for the presentation.
Awe ok so Dublin didn't get beaten by Tyrone last August . We wanted to do something nice ::)
I don't understand what you mean - and it's not the spelling.
Well Dublin only lost because we wanted to be nice. Sure we can't win a game of football next week and we realised Tyrone deserved a bit more, I heard Kerry did the same.
I still don't understand the analogy - are you trying to say, in your usual impenetrable fashion, that you think there's no place in sport for sporting behaviour? There's no reason to bring Dublin into it, it just confuses people when you're talking about winning things.
I'm making the point that this claim is as ridiculous as claiming Dublin or Kerry lost to Tyrone on purpose. I know it's not like to like as both teams could of won the big prize/progressed but BC's claim is so ridiculous it don't see the harm it extending it one further.
No your doing something much worse .Your claiming that only the 2nd gland slam Ireland won was handed to them out of pity !
QuoteNo your doing something much worse .Your claiming that only the 2nd gland slam Ireland won was handed to them out of pity !
I don't know how you can extrapolate that from what I'm saying.
It's an interesting theory. Initially, it seemed outlandish to me, but there are few factors that lend it credence. There's no doubt that the kick was well within his range. He had one in the first half that was almost identical - not quite as straight in front and almost exactly the same distance, or, if anything, a little longer, given the wider angle. That one sailed at least a metre over the crossbar. I can't believe the strength in his legs would diminish so much that he couldn't kick a ball the anywhere close to the same distance as he could earlier. If you're going to miss, it would be easier to kick it wide, but that's seen as a miss and blameworhty, whereas if you drop it short, you're seen as having given it your best and it's not your fault it didn't have the distance, etc.
I still find it hard to believe a professional player would effectively throw a top level match. But ...
How do they get paid, by the way? If there are win bonuses, etc. that would be evidence against the deliberate miss theory.
Deliberate miss or not, I firmly believe he did not give that last kick his all, whether consciously or unconsciously. Place kickers are anal in their routines and he did not stick to his. That would suggest to me someone who just wanted the kick out of the way. If he was so tired that his legs were too tired to kick it that length ten logic would suggest he take a few extra seconds to compose himself. He looked to me like someone who did not want to take the kick and got it out of the way as quickly as he could.
It was a very, very high pressure kick, possibly the most important one of his career (?) That sort of pressure can do funny things, big difference between kicking practice and in the last 10 seconds of the last game of the competition with millions of eyes on you.
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 10:59:37 AM
QuoteNo your doing something much worse .Your claiming that only the 2nd gland slam Ireland won was handed to them out of pity !
I don't know how you can extrapolate that from what I'm saying.
I don't know how you can't . Your saying he felt of the Irish players , I can only assume he felt sorry/pity for them and so he missed .
Why did O'Gara miss the penalty in the first half? Why did Dessie Dolan blast a sitter wide against Meath a few years back? I'm a cynical git at the best of times and it was the first thing that crossed my mind, but I'm not buying it now I've thought about it
QuoteIf he was so tired that his legs were too tired to kick it that length ten logic would suggest he take a few extra seconds to compose himself. He looked to me like someone who did not want to take the kick and got it out of the way as quickly as he could.
Strange discussion, it was the last kick of the game, there would have enormous lactic acid build up in the muscles, he was tired, he rushed the kick as suggested above therefore his breathing technique would have been all over the place and the mental strain alone would be immense, the kick was too high and although accurate was never going to travel far with that trajectory. Conciously or subconciously SJ did not miss that kick on purpose. Also SJ dd not play a full 80 in the six nations until Saturday he just was mentally or physically prepared to take such an important kick. Interesting theory though.
Any Liginds the whole lot of them.
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 11:17:37 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 10:59:37 AM
QuoteNo your doing something much worse .Your claiming that only the 2nd gland slam Ireland won was handed to them out of pity !
I don't know how you can extrapolate that from what I'm saying.
I don't know how you can't . Your saying he felt of the Irish players , I can only assume he felt sorry/pity for them and so he missed .
I'm saying nothing of the sort - you're the only one who seems to think I am. You could just as easily (if you weren't displaying partisan behaviour) read that he felt sorry/pity/despondent for Wales that they couldn't achieve their goal and that there was little point in giving his all to the kick.
QuoteStrange discussion, it was the last kick of the game, there would have enormous lactic acid build up in the muscles, he was tired, he rushed the kick as suggested above therefore his breathing technique would have been all over the place and the mental strain alone would be immense, the kick was too high and although accurate was never going to travel far with that trajectory. Conciously or subconciously SJ did not miss that kick on purpose. Also SJ dd not play a full 80 in the six nations until Saturday he just was mentally or physically prepared to take such an important kick. Interesting theory though.
I accept all that, with the proviso that he is a professional sportsman, and irrespective of his fatigue etc., all of his training/preparation would surely have made him do something different with so much at stake. Am I reading too much into this?
And why, why, why, after his famous rant about 'the jersey', did O'Gara not wear it when he should have been most proud to wear it?
Quote from: stephenite on March 23, 2009, 11:21:05 AM
Why did Dessie Dolan blast a sitter wide against Meath a few years back?
because he's shit ?
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 11:27:45 AM
QuoteStrange discussion, it was the last kick of the game, there would have enormous lactic acid build up in the muscles, he was tired, he rushed the kick as suggested above therefore his breathing technique would have been all over the place and the mental strain alone would be immense, the kick was too high and although accurate was never going to travel far with that trajectory. Conciously or subconciously SJ did not miss that kick on purpose. Also SJ dd not play a full 80 in the six nations until Saturday he just was mentally or physically prepared to take such an important kick. Interesting theory though.
I accept all that, with the proviso that he is a professional sportsman, and irrespective of his fatigue etc., all of his training/preparation would surely have made him do something different with so much at stake. Am I reading too much into this?
And why, why, why, after his famous rant about 'the jersey', did O'Gara not wear it when he should have been most proud to wear it?
Because he did the sporting thing and went to speak to and exchange shirts with his opposite number immediately after the whistle? He was most proud to wear it during the match, the fact he wasn't during the presentation is irrelevant.
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 11:27:45 AM
QuoteStrange discussion, it was the last kick of the game, there would have enormous lactic acid build up in the muscles, he was tired, he rushed the kick as suggested above therefore his breathing technique would have been all over the place and the mental strain alone would be immense, the kick was too high and although accurate was never going to travel far with that trajectory. Conciously or subconciously SJ did not miss that kick on purpose. Also SJ dd not play a full 80 in the six nations until Saturday he just was mentally or physically prepared to take such an important kick. Interesting theory though.
I accept all that, with the proviso that he is a professional sportsman, and irrespective of his fatigue etc., all of his training/preparation would surely have made him do something different with so much at stake. Am I reading too much into this?
Yes.
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 11:27:45 AM
QuoteStrange discussion, it was the last kick of the game, there would have enormous lactic acid build up in the muscles, he was tired, he rushed the kick as suggested above therefore his breathing technique would have been all over the place and the mental strain alone would be immense, the kick was too high and although accurate was never going to travel far with that trajectory. Conciously or subconciously SJ did not miss that kick on purpose. Also SJ dd not play a full 80 in the six nations until Saturday he just was mentally or physically prepared to take such an important kick. Interesting theory though.
I accept all that, with the proviso that he is a professional sportsman, and irrespective of his fatigue etc., all of his training/preparation would surely have made him do something different with so much at stake. Am I reading too much into this?
And why, why, why, after his famous rant about 'the jersey', did O'Gara not wear it when he should have been most proud to wear it?
I'm sorry now BB's I'm not having that. O'Gara has had more than his share of criticism - some deserved, a lot not deserved. On Saturday he was battered and targetted by the Welsh as they knew he was one of our key men. He took it on the chin, dusted himself down and like a true champion produced the goods when the chips were down. After the final whistle he went over he showed he is a true sportsman commiserating with his opponent. If he is to take flak for that then I think that's very wrong.
Some people are never happy.
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 23, 2009, 11:34:13 AM
I'm sorry now BB's I'm not having that. O'Gara has had more than his share of criticism - some deserved, a lot not deserved. On Saturday he was battered and targetted by the Welsh as they knew he was one of our key men. He took it on the chin, dusted himself down and like a true champion produced the goods when the chips were down. After the final whistle he went over he showed he is a true sportsman commiserating with his opponent. If he is to take flak for that then I think that's very wrong.
Or that they knew he was a weak link? Which he was for a fair bit of that game. Fair play to the man though he stepped up when it mattered with the drop goal and thats testament to him after a poor game.
I really cant believe anybody is suggesting Jones missed the kick on purpose. Look at the way the Welsh played that match, no quarter asked or given and clear enough there was no love lost between the sides, and its ludicrous to suggest he didnt want to land the kick. His reaction itself told a story, the man looked gutted.
I'm not having a go at anyone, I'm just interested in the psychology of it all. I thought it was acceptable practice (for a 'final' or deciding game in any sport) that the winning side did not exchange jersies with their opponents, in accepting the trophy, photocalls etc. I'm perfectly happy to accept that it was a sporting gesture on O'Gara's part - but Gnevin tells me that sporting gestures aren't possible in high-level sport.
Billy, I think you're more interest in the pyschology of Gnevin than Stephen Jones. I agree with Seanie I'm not O'Gara's biggest fan but what he did at the end was a testament to the man, rugby and sport in general.
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 11:45:56 AM
I'm not having a go at anyone, I'm just interested in the psychology of it all. I thought it was acceptable practice (for a 'final' or deciding game in any sport) that the winning side did not exchange jersies with their opponents, in accepting the trophy, photocalls etc. I'm perfectly happy to accept that it was a sporting gesture on O'Gara's part - but Gnevin tells me that sporting gestures aren't possible in high-level sport.
The GAA had to outright ban the practice of exchanging jerseys as too many team where showing up in the wrong jerseys maybe the IRFU do to. There are sporting gestures such as kicking a ball out for a injured player and there is throwing a game. One is a sporting gesture the other isn't
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 11:55:30 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 11:45:56 AM
I'm not having a go at anyone, I'm just interested in the psychology of it all. I thought it was acceptable practice (for a 'final' or deciding game in any sport) that the winning side did not exchange jersies with their opponents, in accepting the trophy, photocalls etc. I'm perfectly happy to accept that it was a sporting gesture on O'Gara's part - but Gnevin tells me that sporting gestures aren't possible in high-level sport.
The GAA had to outright ban the practice of exchanging jerseys as too many team where showing up in the wrong jerseys maybe the IRFU do to. There are sporting gestures such as kicking a ball out for a injured player and there is throwing a game. One is a sporting gesture the other isn't
Your hardly arguein over whether o'Gara should exchange jerseys with jones or not? What the f**k has it to do with anybody who disagrees, its not your jersey hes swapping, unless your the president of the IRFU then I sincerely apologise. Otherwise catch a grip, he kicked the winning points.
I'm not having a go at O'Gara, genuinely. I thought he showed great guts to take on the drop-goal, when his general play should have dictated (to his own head) that he wasn't having the best of games, and ... he might miss. I just think it was odd, when he was the guy who pointed out (quite rightly IMO, as a bystander) that there appeared be be less passion for the Irish jersey (than the provincial jersies) in the squad, that he chose (consciously or subconsciously,as Dinny might say) this occasion to don the Welsh jersey. I just don't understand why he did it - the idea that he considered that Jones had dropped it short, as a sporting gesture, and did it as an acknowledgement just seems credible to me, as do other theories presented here (apart from Dublin giving Tyrone a dig-out). Will we ever know?
Class :D
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 12:02:59 PM
I'm not having a go at O'Gara, genuinely. I thought he showed great guts to take on the drop-goal, when his general play should have dictated (to his own head) that he wasn't having the best of games, and ... he might miss. I just think it was odd, when he was the guy who pointed out (quite rightly IMO, as a bystander) that there appeared be be less passion for the Irish jersey (than the provincial jersies) in the squad, that he chose (consciously or subconsciously,as Dinny might say) this occasion to don the Welsh jersey. I just don't understand why he did it - the idea that he considered that Jones had dropped it short, as a sporting gesture, and did it as an acknowledgement just seems credible to me, as do other theories presented here (apart from Dublin giving Tyrone a dig-out). Will we ever know?
Does the fact the he wore it inside out help his arguement? Im not sure it will, i think he should just play for wales from now on the dorty turncoat :D :D :D
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 23, 2009, 12:02:59 PM
I'm not having a go at O'Gara, genuinely. I thought he showed great guts to take on the drop-goal, when his general play should have dictated (to his own head) that he wasn't having the best of games, and ... he might miss. I just think it was odd, when he was the guy who pointed out (quite rightly IMO, as a bystander) that there appeared be be less passion for the Irish jersey (than the provincial jersies) in the squad, that he chose (consciously or subconsciously,as Dinny might say) this occasion to don the Welsh jersey. I just don't understand why he did it - the idea that he considered that Jones had dropped it short, as a sporting gesture, and did it as an acknowledgement just seems credible to me, as do other theories presented here (apart from Dublin giving Tyrone a dig-out). Will we ever know?
Yes your talking balls, he didn't drop it short as a sporting gesture, we did land on the moon, a lone nut killed JFK. God conspiracy nuts drive me mad.
The other thing lads is that a lot of these lads will be in the Lions squad together, I for one would find it hard to talk to someone after I had shattered their sporting dreams for the sake of a second place trophy. I think the whole lot got to Jones and he just couldn't hack it, which for such a highly trained sports man is very strange and that is why I suspect there may be more to his thought process.
Is this actually a serious discussion or have a whole load of wind up merchants got together this morning and decided to peddle this theory to the annoyance of the general population? Probably the most ridiculous pile of clap trap seen in a thread that is not started by T Fearon/based on Northern political arguments.
The final kick on Saturday was 48 metres out
His earlier kick was 49 metres, so it was well within his reach
While I acknowledge the doubters, is it really possible for him to drop it short by the minimum amount (short of hitting the crossbar) ?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 12:11:47 PM
I think the whole lot got to Jones and he just couldn't hack it, which for such a highly trained sports man is very strange and that is why I suspect there may be more to his thought process.
The fact that he missed certainly means he couldn't hack it, however history is littered with those who have choked when the last kick of a game decides the outcome of the tournament. Did Baggio deliberatley miss the penalty in the shoot out of the World Cup final in 1994?
It's more mental than anything and all the training and coaching in the world won't help you when you're on the pitch and everyone is staring at you, the brain starts wondering about what'll happen if you miss and you're fucked.
Wouldn't watch much rugby apart from the internationals but really enjoyed the game on Saturday. Thought it was a horrible way to end it what with Jones dropping it short but the debate here is making up for that :D (well apart from GNevins contributions). Thought we should have wound down the last few minutes by going from ruck to ruck. Fair play to O'Gara, nightmare in the first half but pulled it out in the second. O'Driscoll this year has led by example, has cut out the smirking, been focussed on the job and played some outstanding rugby. O'Connell has been rightly lauded as well but the unsung hero for me on Sat was Tommy Bowe. Made some fantastic breaks and didn't put a foot wrong. Great day for Irish sport, well apart from the Westmeath U21s...
Quote from: Tim Buzaglo on March 23, 2009, 12:15:58 PM
Is this actually a serious discussion or have a whole load of wind up merchants got together this morning and decided to peddle this theory to the annoyance of the general population? Probably the most ridiculous pile of clap trap seen in a thread that is not started by T Fearon/based on Northern political arguments.
Somebody has to be takin the piss, i definitely was. Although now that i think about it, Jones' kick at the end was definitely as easy one from 48yds, so he obviously dropped it short on purpose, deep down he wanted Ireland to win the Grand Slam, so he was tellin me anyway...but i reckon he got a big payoff. He does look good in green, maybe we should swap him for O'Gara.
Surprised no-one has suggested that ROG probably had a couple of grand on Ireland with a -1 handicapp and that's the real reason he went over to SJ in the end..maybe SJ was in on it as well.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 23, 2009, 12:31:06 PM
Surprised no-one has suggested that ROG probably had a couple of grand on Ireland with a -1 handicapp and that's the real reason he went over to SJ in the end..maybe SJ was in on it as well.
You'll never believe it but Jones had 5 grand on Wales -2
WHAT ABOUT HER EYES ? !!! :D
Quote from: mrsandman on March 23, 2009, 12:35:05 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 23, 2009, 12:31:06 PM
Surprised no-one has suggested that ROG probably had a couple of grand on Ireland with a -1 handicapp and that's the real reason he went over to SJ in the end..maybe SJ was in on it as well.
You'll never believe it but Jones had 5 grand on Wales -2
I heard his family where the subject to a tiger kidnapping before the game too
I don't think it's anything to do with money Dinny, but I'd not be surprised if Jones just, sub consciously or not, didn't go all out with that last kick. Maybe he just felt that with the Lions tour coming up it would have destroyed the Irish lads? I dunno, but I'd have backed him to kick that all day, he never looked like missing.
I was tongue in cheek AZ anyway hopefully Niall McNamee will feel something similar in the summer when he has his last minute peanlty and Offaly are 2 points down to Kildare ;D
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 23, 2009, 12:39:21 PM
I was tongue in cheek AZ anyway hopefully Niall McNamee will feel something similar in the summer when he has his last minute peanlty and Offaly are 2 points down to Kildare ;D
Different circumstances. Nialler will be trying to win the same prize as Kildare that day, i.e. into the next round. If Jones had made that kick, Wales would have won a Triple Crown they don't care about, and Ireland would have won a hollow Championship, which would have sickened his Lion's teammates.
I doubt it was a conscious decision to miss, but something held him back.
QuoteI doubt it was a conscious decision to miss, but something held him back.
That's the beauty of sport and why Greg Norman has only 2 majors to his name.
Rugby league legend Don Fox
The former Featherstone, Wakefield and Great Britain scrum-half and loose forward will always be remembered for his missed conversion attempt in the famous 1968 'watersplash' Challenge Cup Final between Wakefield and Leeds at Wembley.
He had already been named as man of the match and winner of the prestigious Lance Todd Trophy when he had the chance to win the match for Trinity but fluffed the goal from in front of the posts in atrocious conditions to leave Leeds 11-10 winners.
Kevin McCabe-Bill McCorry- Steve Davis 1985 final... sport is littered with these misses and that is the beauty of it...
WHAT ABOUT HER EYES?!!
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 23, 2009, 12:50:11 PM
QuoteI doubt it was a conscious decision to miss, but something held him back.
That's the beauty of sport and why Greg Norman has only 2 majors to his name.
Jimmy White is glad to see another choker in sport now I would say...
What you slabbering about eyes for fox?
Has Gnev been on the sauce?
Quote from: longrunsthefox on March 23, 2009, 12:56:12 PM
Rugby league legend Don Fox
The former Featherstone, Wakefield and Great Britain scrum-half and loose forward will always be remembered for his missed conversion attempt in the famous 1968 'watersplash' Challenge Cup Final between Wakefield and Leeds at Wembley.
He had already been named as man of the match and winner of the prestigious Lance Todd Trophy when he had the chance to win the match for Trinity but fluffed the goal from in front of the posts in atrocious conditions to leave Leeds 11-10 winners.
Kevin McCabe-Bill McCorry- Steve Davis 1985 final... sport is littered with these misses and that is the beauty of it...
WHAT ABOUT HER EYES?!!
John Terry in the CL Final. :'(
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 12:36:28 PM
I dunno, but I'd have backed him to kick that all day, he never looked like missing.
Well one of his did hit the post and go over so he went close to missing that one.
Thought he would definitely nail the last one though. It was on target. Just didn't have the legs. He was probably knackered at that stage though and just couldn't get the extra couple of yards out of his kick.
Anyone think it was strange to see Denis Hickey and Shane Horgan in the crowd at the boxing? surely they would have favoured going to see their own lads?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2009, 01:01:50 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on March 23, 2009, 12:56:12 PM
Rugby league legend Don Fox
The former Featherstone, Wakefield and Great Britain scrum-half and loose forward will always be remembered for his missed conversion attempt in the famous 1968 'watersplash' Challenge Cup Final between Wakefield and Leeds at Wembley.
He had already been named as man of the match and winner of the prestigious Lance Todd Trophy when he had the chance to win the match for Trinity but fluffed the goal from in front of the posts in atrocious conditions to leave Leeds 11-10 winners.
Kevin McCabe-Bill McCorry- Steve Davis 1985 final... sport is littered with these misses and that is the beauty of it...
WHAT ABOUT HER EYES?!!
John Terry in the CL Final. :'(
Maybe should be another thread of classic penalty misses but England soccer teams have given the most joyous moments... Southgate-Batty- Pearson-Waddle-Beckham-Carragher... absolute bliss
QuoteAnyone think it was strange to see Denis Hickey and Shane Horgan in the crowd at the boxing? surely they would have favoured going to see their own lads?
Bittter sweet moment for them been so close to the squad and probably couldn't face watching the game, most professional sportsmen are poor spectators...
Quote from: gerrykeegan on March 23, 2009, 01:07:40 PM
Anyone think it was strange to see Denis Hickey and Shane Horgan in the crowd at the boxing? surely they would have favoured going to see their own lads?
No sure they knew the result before hand. ;)
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 01:47:32 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on March 23, 2009, 01:07:40 PM
Anyone think it was strange to see Denis Hickey and Shane Horgan in the crowd at the boxing? surely they would have favoured going to see their own lads?
No sure they knew the result before hand. ;)
Did ROG tip them off?
You have to feel sorry for them though, so near and yet so far. At least Brian and the boys helped make the breakthrough a reality, maybe this will help Leinster get over their mental problems as well.
Horgan looked miserable at the boxing. I'm sure he was delighted for the team but he's been a regular in the squad for the best part of a decade up until very recently. Hickie at least has had a bit more seperation since his retirement.
QuoteAt least Brian and the boys helped make the breakthrough a reality, maybe this will help Leinster get over their mental problems as well.
rancid!!!
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 23, 2009, 02:39:57 PM
QuoteAt least Brian and the boys helped make the breakthrough a reality, maybe this will help Leinster get over their mental problems as well.
rancid!!!
What's wrong with you Dinny? Do you not think that this will help Leinster as much as anything else.? When you have players who know how to win playing with players who don't it will bring up the level of performance through extension of confidence and that is a fact that I know full well.
Dinny, you seem strangely removed from your analytical best today - surely belonging to a winning team can only help the Leinster players?
Yep it's all dow n to Munster players knowing how to win and I suppose if they lost it was all down to Leinster players been mentally weak.
Looks like Denis watched the game at home, BC maybe you should read his last paragraph.
http://blog.ireland.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?webtag=itb_DenisHickie (http://blog.ireland.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?webtag=itb_DenisHickie)
I'm hungover and tired truth be told, really today should be about Ireland and not the provinces but in case people don't realise it Leinster are current league Champions, topped their HEC group and have the best defence in Europe, somehow I think they already belong to a winning team. Rugby doesn't being and end with the Heineken Cup.
QuoteRugby doesn't being and end with the Heineken Cup.
Have you
being hanging out with Gnevin?
That's a low blow :-[
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 23, 2009, 03:20:52 PM
Yep it's all dow n to Munster players knowing how to win and I suppose if they lost it was all down to Leinster players been mentally weak.
Looks like Denis watched the game at home, BC maybe you should read his last paragraph.
http://blog.ireland.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?webtag=itb_DenisHickie (http://blog.ireland.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?webtag=itb_DenisHickie)
I am not saying it is all about munster players, I am not a Munster fan in the grander scheme. I am saying that this situation will help Leinster and you take the hump. I knwo Armagh beat Kildare as well but I am trying to be positive. Boots is right, you seem to have a GNevin thing going on there!
Ok Ok, hands up I read the post again and mis-interpruted first time maybe I am turning into Gnevin, no offence Gnevin but you're a fierce sensitive soul, anyway yes I agree off course winning the Grand Slam will give these players more confidence and confidence breeds confidence and belief so yes Leinster hopefully will benefit. Apologies.
GROUP HUG ( with gnevin watching)
Quote from: ludermor on March 23, 2009, 03:53:29 PM
GROUP HUG ( with gnevin watching)
More like crouch, touch, hold, engage!!!!
Ì think Leinster will win the HEC this season now.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 23, 2009, 03:52:19 PM
Ok Ok, hands up I read the post again and mis-interpruted first time maybe I am turning into Gnevin, no offence Gnevin but you're a fierce sensitive soul, anyway yes I agree off course winning the Grand Slam will give these players more confidence and confidence breeds confidence and belief so yes Leinster hopefully will benefit. Apologies.
Well I just get a little worked up when people who don't even know how a scrum begins attempts to taint a great a achievement .
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 03:56:14 PM
Ì think Leinster will win the HEC this season now.
Imagine that semi final should things go to plan. What a wonderful opportunity to showcase and promote Irish rugby it will be.
Actually GNevin, I've heard it both ways. Crouch, Touch, Pause, Engage, and Crouch, Touch, Hold, Engage. I've even heard, Crouch, Touch, Attendez, Engage. :D
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 23, 2009, 03:59:32 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 03:56:14 PM
Ì think Leinster will win the HEC this season now.
Imagine that semi final should things go to plan. What a wonderful opportunity to showcase and promote Irish rugby it will be.
I'd be sick watching it. I'd fear Leinster this year. The forwards are better now, and if the backs get clicking, they are as good as anyone in the tournament. The fact that Munster have won it twice now will make it a bit easier to swallow, if Leinster had won in 2006 that would have been Samaritans time.
Quoteyes I agree off course winning the Grand Slam will give these players more confidence
More proof! Dinny and Gnevin are as one - the truth is out. ;)
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 04:00:29 PM
Actually GNevin, I've heard it both ways. Crouch, Touch, Pause, Engage, and Crouch, Touch, Hold, Engage. I've even heard, Crouch, Touch, Attendez, Engage. :D
Well that clears that up. I used to think it was refs being a bit disrespectful to prop forwards -
Crouch, Touch paws, Engage.
Quote from: Hardy on March 23, 2009, 04:06:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 04:00:29 PM
Actually GNevin, I've heard it both ways. Crouch, Touch, Pause, Engage, and Crouch, Touch, Hold, Engage. I've even heard, Crouch, Touch, Attendez, Engage. :D
Well that clears that up. I used to think it was refs being a bit disrespectful to prop forwards -
Crouch, Touch paws, Engage.
Very good. :D
I love when the game is hot and heavy, and the ref knows he's losing the Front Rows a bit. Then the scrum call is more like 'Crouchtouchpauseengage'
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 04:00:29 PM
Actually GNevin, I've heard it both ways. Crouch, Touch, Pause, Engage, and Crouch, Touch, Hold, Engage. I've even heard, Crouch, Touch, Attendez, Engage. :D
Pause , engage is the only correct one.
Like AZ I have heard it both ways. I do not claim to be an expert on the minutiae of the game, so I will bow to your great knowledge of that. Curiousity GNevin, have you played rugby before?
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 04:00:29 PM
Actually GNevin, I've heard it both ways. Crouch, Touch, Pause, Engage, and Crouch, Touch, Hold, Engage. I've even heard, Crouch, Touch, Attendez, Engage. :D
Pause , engage is the only correct one.
Possibly. I don't have the rules in front of me. But it's definitely splitting hairs, and I've heard it a few ways. It's the intention rather than the words that is important.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 04:08:53 PM
Like AZ I have heard it both ways. I do not claim to be an expert on the minutiae of the game, so I will bow to your great knowledge of that. Curiousity GNevin, have you played rugby before?
Yes.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 04:13:58 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 04:00:29 PM
Actually GNevin, I've heard it both ways. Crouch, Touch, Pause, Engage, and Crouch, Touch, Hold, Engage. I've even heard, Crouch, Touch, Attendez, Engage. :D
Pause , engage is the only correct one.
Possibly. I don't have the rules in front of me. But it's definitely splitting hairs, and I've heard it a few ways. It's the intention rather than the words that is important.
http://www.irb.com/ELVs/
Now you do :D
What's your point GNevin? I said that it possibly is 'Pause', but I said I've heard it a few different ways, and to imply that it betrays some sort of ignorance of Rugby is a fairly lame argument.
Well "crouch, touch, hold, engage" must have been in the old rules cos I definitely heard it as well.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 04:24:18 PM
What's your point GNevin? I said that it possibly is 'Pause', but I said I've heard it a few different ways, and to imply that it betrays some sort of ignorance of Rugby is a fairly lame argument.
Well you all stand corrected on this contentious issue . ;)
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 04:27:33 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2009, 04:24:18 PM
What's your point GNevin? I said that it possibly is 'Pause', but I said I've heard it a few different ways, and to imply that it betrays some sort of ignorance of Rugby is a fairly lame argument.
Well you all stand corrected on this contentious issue . ;)
I'd have thought someone with your infamous attention to detail in the written word would have been a little more forgiving.
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 23, 2009, 04:24:38 PM
Well "crouch, touch, hold, engage" must have been in the old rules cos I definitely heard it as well.
It used to be crouch , hold ,engage but the hold wasn't long enough so it was changed to crouch , pause ,engage. However the distance between the front rows was getting to big so it is now. Crouch , touch ,pause ,engage.
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 23, 2009, 04:24:38 PM
Well "crouch, touch, hold, engage" must have been in the old rules cos I definitely heard it as well.
It used to be crouch , hold ,engage but the hold wasn't long enough so it was changed to crouch , pause ,engage. However the distance between the front rows was getting to big so it is now. Crouch , touch ,pause ,engage.
Well there you go. Obviously this rules me completely incapable of ever commenting on anything to do with rugby.
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 23, 2009, 04:39:53 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 23, 2009, 04:24:38 PM
Well "crouch, touch, hold, engage" must have been in the old rules cos I definitely heard it as well.
It used to be crouch , hold ,engage but the hold wasn't long enough so it was changed to crouch , pause ,engage. However the distance between the front rows was getting to big so it is now. Crouch , touch ,pause ,engage.
Well there you go. Obviously this rules me completely incapable of ever commenting on anything to do with rugby.
Ye see seanie, we made the mistake of having an opinion about something we know nothing about so The Oracle has put us right. Tis great to be educated from the city, us poor old culchies, what would a Sligo ad an Armagh man know about it anyway :P
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 23, 2009, 04:43:24 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 23, 2009, 04:39:53 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 23, 2009, 04:24:38 PM
Well "crouch, touch, hold, engage" must have been in the old rules cos I definitely heard it as well.
It used to be crouch , hold ,engage but the hold wasn't long enough so it was changed to crouch , pause ,engage. However the distance between the front rows was getting to big so it is now. Crouch , touch ,pause ,engage.
Well there you go. Obviously this rules me completely incapable of ever commenting on anything to do with rugby.
Ye see seanie, we made the mistake of having an opinion about something we know nothing about so The Oracle has put us right. Tis great to be educated from the city, us poor old culchies, what would a Sligo ad an Armagh man know about it anyway :P
Look lads you seem like a good bunch . Just don't let it happen again and we will forget this ever happened , Ok?
ps http://sligocity.olx.ie/ <-Sligo ad's :D
When O´Driscoll hit the international scene with a bullet wasn't he the D4 pin up golden boy of the Rugby scene?
Nowadays, especially at the end of a game game, he looks like he has morphed into a punch drunk docker with 10 thousand hangovers notched.
Nobody can complain about his working class cred.
Quote from: Gnevin on March 23, 2009, 04:32:39 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 23, 2009, 04:24:38 PM
Well "crouch, touch, hold, engage" must have been in the old rules cos I definitely heard it as well.
It used to be crouch , hold ,engage but the hold wasn't long enough so it was changed to crouch , pause ,engage. However the distance between the front rows was getting to big so it is now. Crouch , touch ,pause ,engage.
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-1632.html
Good discussion from refs when the new rules were introduced.
Watched my first FULL rugby match ever on saturday i have to say the level of discipline towards the referee is unreal and then when game was over the level of respect the players seem to have for each other, this is maybe something us gaa folk could do in perfecting i really enjoyed the game i was never a rugby fan before saturday i would even say i was a "begrudger" now i would describe myself as nearly converted after seeing what it means to alot of people in every corner of ireland as a result of all i have seen and heard this last few days well done to all concerned i hope you all really enjoy your moment of glory.
Just to add to the debate earlier today about whether Jones missed on purpose or whatever, I genuinely dont believe that to be the case. People said that he took the kick quickly, Jones has a pretty quick routine as it is and the last kick was no different to his other kicks really. Then there was the way he charged/threw himself at O'Gara's drop goal at the end suggests that he desperately wanted to win the game. The kick at the end brought together a mixture of pressure and tiredness and both these factors were a massive influence in missing the kick. 80 minutes of heavy tackling is bound to take its toll on any player. The similar kick in the first half that he scored was done with very little pressure attached to it at that time with half time in 2 minutes.
As someone said out earlier though, some people are never happy!
In 2003 (I think) Jones dropped a late goal to put Wales ahead with a couple of minutes to go. O'Gara who had just come on for Humphries then mishit a drop goal attempt but it limped over to give us the win.
Jones would have wished to have had another kick that day for the win and when the offer turned up last saturday there is no way he would have wanted to miss it.
Id say Jones actually kicked ball further than Hensons earlier effort.
See brian moore is gracious as usual..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/5032640/Greatness-is-still-unproven-for-Irelands-euphoric-Grand-Slam-winners.htm
some good responses.
Lads, I can't believe any of ye are seriously taking the bait that has been thrown about in regard to Jones? Have ye been drinking since Saturday? :D
Back from a fantastic weekend in Cardiff. What an occassion. And how close we were to despair. (The comments about Jones missing on purpose are pure idiotic).
The noise in the stadium when Philips made the late break in the 2nd half that led to the DG, was the loudest I've ever heard at a match. The Millenium Stadium is a magnificent venue.
Did anyone hear Eddie O'Sullivan on the last word yesterday? I must say he came across very well and was extremely gracious and genuine.
Quote from: ludermor on March 24, 2009, 10:42:21 AM
Did anyone hear Eddie O'Sullivan on the last word yesterday? I must say he came across very well and was extremely gracious and genuine.
He was never anything but. Half the bad words said about O'Sullivan stem from that plank Hook. On RTE's homecoming programme, he refused to acknowledge that O'Sullivan deserved any praise or recognition whatsoever, much to the amusement of Pope and McGurk.
Quote from: tyroneboi on March 23, 2009, 08:16:48 PM
Just to add to the debate earlier today about whether Jones missed on purpose or whatever, I genuinely dont believe that to be the case. People said that he took the kick quickly, Jones has a pretty quick routine as it is and the last kick was no different to his other kicks really. Then there was the way he charged/threw himself at O'Gara's drop goal at the end suggests that he desperately wanted to win the game. The kick at the end brought together a mixture of pressure and tiredness and both these factors were a massive influence in missing the kick. 80 minutes of heavy tackling is bound to take its toll on any player. The similar kick in the first half that he scored was done with very little pressure attached to it at that time with half time in 2 minutes.
As someone said out earlier though, some people are never happy!
He did not miss that kick on purpose, that is an absolutely ridiculous assertion. The other thing is if I was to attempt such a thing I would put it wide or drop ot well short, it actually dropped about a yard short. What sort of a man do you think Stephen Jones is that he would try such a thing.
I would be more concerned with all the players kissing the president. Have they no decorum?
She seemed to be enjoying herself.
Quote from: gallsman on March 24, 2009, 10:47:00 AM
Quote from: ludermor on March 24, 2009, 10:42:21 AM
Did anyone hear Eddie O'Sullivan on the last word yesterday? I must say he came across very well and was extremely gracious and genuine.
He was never anything but. Half the bad words said about O'Sullivan stem from that plank Hook. On RTE's homecoming programme, he refused to acknowledge that O'Sullivan deserved any praise or recognition whatsoever, much to the amusement of Pope and McGurk.
You'd have to feel a bit Eddie O'Sullivan.
For the first couple of years he was going up against the best team in the world in the 6 nations. Something Kidney hasn't had to contend with.
In 2007 Ireland were good for the Grand Slam and were unlucky to lose to France.
Granted he let things slip towards the end of his reign, but he definitely brought Ireland a long way on from the "give it a lash" days of old.
Have to echo the comments above from Eddie O'Sullivan. His managerial stint might have ended acrimoniously, but he couldn't have come across as more gracious or more supportive when on the Last Word the other evening. The mark of a leader.
RTE finally get something right...brings a tear to the eye
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT9FyZEwh1c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT9FyZEwh1c)
Season Ticket special on tonight at 10.45 on BBC1
Quote from: Doogie Browser on March 25, 2009, 01:14:34 PM
Season Ticket special on tonight at 10.45 on BBC1
what a joke of a show that was. no interview with BOD, O'connell, OGara etc, just the ulster men and ex ulster man. They even interviewed an aussie prop forward who was a sub ! Even humphries in the studio had a go at the southern media in their previous criticism of Tommy Bowe. Paddy Wallace is getting some air time after his near f**k up. What would it have been like if he scored the winning try !
A real ulster fest but what else would you expect with watson and bbc >:(
Well done tyo the Grand Slam heroes. My take on the whole thing is that the grand slam win was one of the greatest Irish team performances I have ever witnessed, and I personally was so glad to see it replace the jolly failures of the FAI teams over the years with something of tangible importance. Sporting success now rests with winners in Ireland not heroic failures. Include Kidney and the 3 o ds in the mix along with a great team but make no mistake about it the GAAs role in this success is no small one. It unified the masses behind the oval ball game by legitimising its presence in Irelands holiest church of sport. The significance of rugby in Croke Park stoked the residual embers of national pride and found a glow somewhere and a flicker of life. For any national team to achieve success they must be proud of their entire nation - The Ulsterman proudly took his place under the national flag and gave it great service and honour. Ireland was proud of its Ulstermen too (and we forgive them for giving away so many penalties) National pride leads way to passion and if talent and management are there then success is possible. The rugby guys borrowed from the nations old self pride over generations fostered in GAA circles mainly, and it worked a treat for them. Croke Park stimulated the men in green, and it moved their supporters. When they make the short trek back to Lansdowne will they forget the lessons learned and return to the dark old days which lacked ideology and national togetherness but promoted class structures and division and shame of our irishness . Who knows time will tell - surely 61 more years is far too long to wait before we realise the importance of national pride and spirit.