2009 Grand Slam Champions

[AZOffaly]

This will be interesting tactically. The Italians are more likely to rush up in defense, as you say wobbler, so don't be surprised if O'Gara, O'Leary, and even the centres especially Wallace, have a decent day with their 'positional' kicking. Ireland will want to turn those Italians around and look to play in their half. It will be a different game to last weekend.

[AZOffaly]

Good. Deccie is going with a relatively settled team. D'Arcy is unlucky to not make it, but Paddy Wallace doesn't deserve to be dropped on Saturday's match, especially in the circumstances he had to leave. That sort of thing breeds loyalty among players.

Having said that, Kidney has shown a hard edge down the years at Munster, and the likes of Anthony Foley will tell you what he thinks of sentimentality. So if changes need to be made, he'll make them.

Other than that, O'Leary will learn the more game time he gets, and there's no way either Heaslip or Ferris were in danger after last week, so Leamy will be chawing at the bit to get on again, which can only be a good thing.

Maybe we could put Leamy at scrum-half to even it up a bit?

I was confused there for a minute I doubt Bergamasco will be picked there ever again.

[An Fear Rua]

Good to see points going on the board late in the game, that was a slightly tender right eye sitting in the bench!

[An Fear Rua]

Italy 9 - Ireland 38

final score

[Capt Pat]

What a good result that was even if the performance wasn't brilliant. We are now in poll position for the 6 nations championship and I am pretty sure we will go into the final game against Wales unbeaten. I didn't hear Hook today but I suppose he said it was rubbish today but I thought it was acceptable.

Back to the game, O'Gara had one of his worst games in an Ireland shirt, O'Leary was better when he played there. O'gara has to remembeer he is there to kick and pass not run at the opposition. When we decided to play a bit of football we were much better than the Italians, they still don't know how to play the game. What aboth the 20 phases before Luke Fitzgeralds try, great stuff and a good try from Bow too.

Does anyone know what happened to Paddy Wallace, it looked like he got a bashing from the amount of cuts and bruises on his face.

[thewobbler]

Following their incessant moaning and calls for team changes, I'd suggest the pundits on RTE really have lost perspective of Irish rugby. Ireland won by 29 points in a competitive away match against a side boasting one of the best forward units in the game. They did so without ever looking like having their line breached, let alone conceding a try.

This isn't time for criticism, it's time for praise.

Yes, there were a number of poor handling errors. No, the backs never put too too many moves together. But when put in perspective, the handling errors were mostly enforced - then contained immediately, and the backs then showed a tremendous cutting edge when any opportunity arose. The point about the Italians is that they rarely if ever let backs do their business. They hit anything that moves, and hit it hard.

On a day when you needed your big, string forwards to lead the way, O'Connell, Ferris and Heaslip did exactly that.


One last thing for the rugby fellas on here. Every scrum-half in every game gets ridiculed by Hook and co. for their ponderous delivery. Except Stringer. Was there a golden age of scrum-halves with bullet-like deliveries that I somehow missed, that the modern players pale in comparision to? Or are Hook and co. being disingenuous by suggesting that the delivery of O'Leary, Boss et al is tortoise like.

[Roger]

One last thing for the rugby fellas on here. Every scrum-half in every game gets ridiculed by Hook and co. for their ponderous delivery. Except Stringer. Was there a golden age of scrum-halves with bullet-like deliveries that I somehow missed, that the modern players pale in comparision to? Or are Hook and co. being disingenuous by suggesting that the delivery of O'Leary, Boss et al is tortoise like.

Stringer has arguably the best pass in Irish rugby but it's not in front/far in front of Reddan and O'Leary.  Boss is actually quite slow and seems to take a step prior to passing which makes his pass slow in that the ball moves quickly yet it takes longer to commence moving.  The difference between all these players and Stringer is that they offer more than just passing a ball and yapping at the referee.  Apart from those Stringer is useless as everyone knows O'Gara's getting it and run like bats out of hell at him, putting him under pressure which he can't cope with and the knock on effect is f**king up one of the best back-lines in test rugby.  Each of the three scrum-halves mentioned is better than Stringer yet he continues to get selected and game time.  Unbelievable.  Someone in an important IRFU role must be buckin his missus or him, there is surely no other reason for his continued selection.

[Hardy]

I don't know much about rugby but the scrum half who only ever passes the ball to O'Gara didn't do too badly to score the winning try in a European final by capitalising on that perception of him.

Also, I appreciate O'Leary's footballing qualities, but it's surely a liability to the team that he takes more time over his passes than a kicker does with his place kicks. The opposition has enough time to take a rest, have a meeting, go for a slash and when they come back O'Leary is still thinking, pondering, wondering, planning - and then, unless he's inside the opposition 22 he'll kick it away anyhow. When Stringer comes on you can see the team immediately look more likely to score.  That's how it looks to me anyway.

[Hound]

I think using Stringer as a sub is a good idea. I don't like him because of his weaknessess, but he did very well in his cameo role.
No way would I start him though ahead of either O'Leary or Reddan.

[thewobbler]

There are two sides to the coin Hardy. If the bulk of your team is capable of thinking quickly, reacting quickly and moving quickly, then having a scrum-half who can fire the ball out without assessing the situation fully is a bonus. In reality, you're not going to have a team capable of doing all that regularly against top-class opposition, so having someone who assesses the situation and releases set move after set move is no bad thing. I don't have any statistics, but I don't believe for one second that Ireland have become less potent in terms of creating breaks since he was removed from the starting position.

But this is getting away from my point. I can't think of any other scrum-half of note who releases a ball as quickly as Stringer - and as a direct result of this, all of the more complete Irish scrum-halves are being tarred with having a slow delivery by eminent commentators. They don't have a slow delivery... just a slower one than Stringer.

The thing is that of the highest level of scrum-halves - in recent years, the likes of Van Der Westhuizen, Gregan, Pichot, Dawson, Healey, Peel and Phillips -  none of them zipped off quick passes like Stringer does. Not so much that they aren't/weren't capable, more because they weren't reliant on getting a quick pass away. In Gregan's case, I don't even know if he was capable, but he's still a legend in the position.

[Roger]

I don't know much about rugby but the scrum half who only ever passes the ball to O'Gara didn't do too badly to score the winning try in a European final by capitalising on that perception of him.

Stringer scored a good try against that team as he noticed the winger goes out of position.  However, if by chance that winger had stayed in position, Stringer would have been made to look a complete mug whereas other scrum halves would maybe have carried it off anyway. As it happened it was a well taken try.  Not worth basing his Ireland selection, and many many other caps on that though.

Also, I appreciate O'Leary's footballing qualities, but it's surely a liability to the team that he takes more time over his passes than a kicker does with his place kicks. The opposition has enough time to take a rest, have a meeting, go for a slash and when they come back O'Leary is still thinking, pondering, wondering, planning - and then, unless he's inside the opposition 22 he'll kick it away anyhow. When Stringer comes on you can see the team immediately look more likely to score.  That's how it looks to me anyway.

Reddan is better than O'Leary in my opinion.  Boss is better than O'Leary.  O'Leary is better than Stringer.

I take your point though that with those mad Italians intent on tackling like gangs of dervishes all game, a good option may be someone who can shift the ball as far away from the pack as possible regardless of where or why the ball goes there.  In that instance Stringer's forte would be applicable. However, against all other teams Stringer adds nothing these days at all.  He would be 4th choice #9 in Ireland for me.

[passedit]

One last thing for the rugby fellas on here. Every scrum-half in every game gets ridiculed by Hook and co. for their ponderous delivery. Except Stringer. Was there a golden age of scrum-halves with bullet-like deliveries that I somehow missed, that the modern players pale in comparision to? Or are Hook and co. being disingenuous by suggesting that the delivery of O'Leary, Boss et al is tortoise like.

Going back to the mid seventies I can think of two above average Irish scrum halves (Three if you count Kyran Bracken), Colm Patterson and John Robbie. Neither had particularly long careers so no, no golden age.

[Hardy]

However, if by chance that winger had stayed in position, Stringer would have been made to look a complete mug whereas other scrum halves would maybe have carried it off anyway.

We don't have any mountains in Meath, but if by chance we did, they'd be higher than your mountains (if you had any). 

[Roger]

Going back to the mid seventies I can think of two above average Irish scrum halves (Three if you count Kyran Bracken), Colm Patterson and John Robbie. Neither had particularly long careers so no, no golden age.

If this is the Colin Patterson who got three test caps for the Lions, I think only "above average" is a little stingy.  I'm no fan of Instonians but I couldn't really say anything other than he was a brilliant scrum half. 

[Roger]

However, if by chance that winger had stayed in position, Stringer would have been made to look a complete mug whereas other scrum halves would maybe have carried it off anyway.

We don't have any mountains in Meath, but if by chance we did, they'd be higher than your mountains (if you had any).