2009 Grand Slam Champions

[Dinny Breen]

Cheers AZ for spotting that, have edited  

Not having a go at O'Gara per se, moreso at the selection policy over-all, if you look at Heaslip's performance was it a co-incidence he was so good and Leamy sitting on the bench. Likewise BOD now has Fitzgrearld, D'Arcy, Wallace and Cave all looking for a midfield slot and all are playing well. O'Gara has more competition in Munster than he does in Ireland, when Humphs senior was challenging O'Gara rose to the contest and he's simply not raising his game anymore, just a concern of my mine plus I have to admit O'Gara is a bit mouthy and that annoys me too.

Part of the game-plan was obviously to kick the ball to France and force them to play, prior to this game most teams would have just kicked the ball back but France ran it back brilliantly and I think we adjusted by not kicking as deep and getting our line defence up quicker.

Also have tickets for the England game and I've been whinging like f*ck about the price too, delighted I have them now though...

[Dinny Breen]

In fairness as regards rugby more than other sport a team has to adapt to the referee's interpretation. The Irish guys would have Owens week in week out in the Magners League plus he refs a lot of the Munster European games, being a top ref and all that. We had an advantage before the game and Kidney to his credit had his use and we were playing on the edge but discipline was excellent and in fairness it was a fanastic game of rugby and credit has to go to the ref for that. Hook is a knob and hasn't clue, he's just the Spillane of rugby puditry.....

[AZOffaly]

We'll have to meet up for a pint so...

[thewobbler]

The problem with O'Gara is not that he is poor, but that he is more and more prone to poor displays, yet still seems untouchable in the eyes of the Irish management and media. As mooted above, I don't think any of his quaities are so distinct that even when on form, he should be untouchable.

Since O'Sullivan made ROG his clear number one, I can only recall one game that O'Gara did not play every important minute of; that against the Pacific Islands, when Wallace started, and kicked something like 10 out of 11, and had a hand in couple of tries. Wallace's reward for that performance was to watch almost every minute of every game since.

I'm not suggesting Wallace is a better player, or even that he is capable of playing international fly-half. It's just that along with Sexton and Humphreys Jr, he'll never find out unless O'Gara suffers a serious injury. So until that happens, we will continue to be fed the (in my opinion) bullsh1t line from the media that O'Gara is irreplaceable.

[Minder]

Any room on the Irish bandwagon?

[Capt Pat]

What a game!

When we kicked possession away, France caused us all sorts of problems, but when we ran with it we were superb. Took us a fair long time to figure it out, but when we did we were superb. (Hope Cheika too note)

Strong performances throughout the team, but Heaslip and O'Driscoll were supreme.

Kearney's leg/ankle didnt look too clever, so I doubt he'll be ready for Italy. Paddy Wallace's face/head looked really sore (not sure what happened) and Darce did well so that'll be a decision for Kidney.

Kearney loooked alright last night when I saw him after 12 0'clock with Geordan Murphy and Bowe. It looked like they were about to head out for a night on the tiles, so the leg couldn't have been that bad. He didn't have the manner of someone who had been told he was ruled out of the next game he seemed in good form.

[Declan]

Great game and some fantastic performances all round. I thought the french flanker was ahead of the ball when it was chipped ahead in the run up to the first try?

[Bord na Mona man]

In the 3 games this season, O'Gara has been a weak link.  Against NZ he fed them the ball with every kick.  Yesterday, he was at the same.  His kicking is poor apart from the low grubber kick which he manages maybe 1/2 times a game.  Even in Thomond Park his magical goal scoring is beginning to breakdown.  His kicking to touch from penalties is getting shorter.  It's a natural decline with age and falling prowess that affects everyone.

I can't see Kidney dropping O'Gara, if necessary he will change the game plan to keep him on the field and accept his declining percentages.

O Gara's kicking has definitely declined in recent years.
When he first came on the scene for Ireland, several times in a game, he could put kicks in from inside his own half that would bounce into touch in the opposition's 22.
Nowadays, you'll notice that when he is kicking for touch from a penalty, he has to kick the ball at a 45 degree angle towards the touchline and gains very little distance.

I never considered him in the same league of Carter, Wilkinson etc and a some of his reputation is down to the Munster tendency to big up everything and anything from the province, but you have to wonder about the paucity of possible replacements coming through. I don't think Paddy Wallace would be up to scratch in the role.

[AZOffaly]

Ara I'm sick of this 'the only reason people say he's good is he's from Munster' shite. Ronan O'Gara is one of the main reasons why Munster qualified for 4 European Cup Finals and won 2 of them. You may have issues with Munster's 'hype' and the idiotic ravings of fellas in the media who, by the way, will be the first to stick the knife in when Munster fall on their faces, as they will. Munster play the media very well, but they don't tell them what to write, and if the performances were as bad as ye seem to think, every writer in the country would be having a pop.

I don't have an issue with people dissecting his game, or anyone's game, with critical analysis, and I will say that I agree that this season especially O'Gara is struggling at times, and he has had stinkers in the past for Ireland, like everyone else but the man has consistently delivered in big games for both Ireland and Munster over the past 10 years almost.

However to say he is rated because Munster 'big up' themselves is churlish in the extreme, and reflects badly on your argument. Which Munster players, or coaches, bigs themselves or the team up? They are notorious for quite the opposite, especially under Kidney. Does Paul O'Connell or Bull or Horan or O'Callaghan or anybody else ever be in media talking about how good they are? If so, I haven't seen it.

It's like the reverse situation of lads who haven't a good word to say about Brian O'Driscoll because he's from Leinster, and it is because O'Gara has been outspoken at times, and is the exception to the rule in Munster. He's not afraid to put his reputation on the line, and if he fails, as he has done, he comes back for more. If you can't see that O'Gara has been one of the better out halves in the northern hemisphere for at least 5 years, I think you are letting your 'anti' Munster bias cloud your judgment.

[The GAA]

personally i don't have an antii munster biias, far from it. i think o'gara is just short of international class, as fantastic as he is for his club.
i would take issue with the assertion that he has consistently performed in big games for ireland, quite the contrary inho.
the world cup last year was the real stage when ireland needed him to deliver and he failed miserably. granted, he was not on his own but he was particularly poor. he has also malfunctioned spectacularly in big 6 nations games, particularly the welsh game.

one thing i can't understand is why such a fantastic tactical kicker at club level is so poor in the same regard for his country?

[C_Berg_316]

Great result for Ireland - very pleased with the team performance - only thing that annoyed me was the amount of 'box' kicks O'Leary was doing - overall though good to get a win and hopefully be able to back it up with a good performance in Rome and start building momentum - concerned about this brutal Mitre ball is it i think they use in Rome - o'gara has struggled with it kicking wise before but if they play bergamsco at scrum half we'll be landed.....

[AZOffaly]

What is international class? Is Andy Goode international class? Or Stephen Jones? Or Bauxise(sp?)

Or are you judging him by say, Dan Carter and Johnny Wilkinson in his prime?

Look, I'd be the first to admit that O'Gara needs good ball, but what outhalf doesn't? I'd also admit his tackling is poor enough, but at least he tries to tackle.

I think that if you weighed up his good games versus his bad games for Ireland over the past 5 or 6 years, he's had more good than bad. The World Cup was obviously a low, low point, but every single player was cat then.

How many games has his boot won for Ireland? How many points has he scored? He has scored tries, kicked for position and kicked goals well for a long time, and his passing is often ignored, but it brings the other backs into it very well. See how flat his passes for Heaslip and  O'Driscoll were yesterday? That means the man coming onto the ball can explode through the first tackle, rather than being lined up from a deeper position.

I'll never claim he's the best outhalf to have ever played the game, nor even the best Irish out half, but I'd contend that over the whole of his career, with Ireland and Munster, he's proved himself a bloody good one, and the Munster bandwagon would still be stuck in the station if it wasn't for his contribution alongside the others.

[Bord na Mona man]

If you can't see that O'Gara has been one of the better out halves in the northern hemisphere for at least 5 years, I think you are letting your 'anti' Munster bias cloud your judgment.

That's hardly much of an achievement in fairness, given the amount of NH rugby nations that are actually any good.
I don't think he warrants the hype. Brian O'Driscoll for example genuinely compares to the best centres in the world, and on occasion has been considered the best in his position.
O'Gara doesn't stand up to the really top drawer no 10s in my view.

[AZOffaly]

So who is better? What standard are we judging him by?

I know Dan Carter, and Jonny Wilkinson in his pomp were/are better. What about Michelak? Contempomi? Hernandez? Skrtel? Bauxise? Stephen Jones?

I know on a bad day O'Gara can be really bad, but I'd not have had any of those 'what abouts' before him.

So if he's not 'international class' then there are very few who are.

And by the way, when you say O'Driscoll has 'on occasion been considered the best in the world at his position', who considered him that? The media? The pundits? The very same people who praise O'Gara in other words? Or does that only count against you if you are bigged up from Munster?

[GalwayBayBoy]

If you can't see that O'Gara has been one of the better out halves in the northern hemisphere for at least 5 years, I think you are letting your 'anti' Munster bias cloud your judgment.

That's hardly much of an achievement in fairness, given the amount of NH rugby nations that are actually any good.
I don't think he warrants the hype. Brian O'Driscoll for example genuinely compares to the best centres in the world, and on occasion has been considered the best in his position.
O'Gara doesn't stand up to the really top drawer no 10s in my view.

There was definitely a time a couple of years ago when he was probably the best 10 in the NH. He was superb in the 2007 6 Nations for example when he scored a try in every single game but one. Had Ireland hung on for 30 more seconds against France and won the GS he would probably have gotten player of the tournament that year. Hasn't really reached those levels since though. The World Cup was obviously a disaster while his form for Ireland since has been up and down.