2009 Grand Slam Champions

AZOffaly · February 08, 2009, 09:34:14 PM

And the south. I know a few Kearneys and they are pronounced Carney as well. I dunno why he fell though, maybe the ghost of Michael Hogan tripped him up?

AZOffaly · February 08, 2009, 09:38:30 PM

I think O'Gara's game with regard to out of hand kicking has suffered a bit with the ELVs as well. In fact I think all out halves have, but it was such a staple of his that it's noticeable. Defenses are expecting kicks now a lot more, and are playing a bit deeper at wing and full back, so the little knock over the top that bounces into touch is harder to execute. Also the fact that a ball passed back over the '22 is not allowed go out on the full means a lot more kicking up the middle.

He hasn't really adapted to that yet, but on those occasions when the defence is flat, after a turnover or a lot of phases, O'Gara can still ping the corners at times. It's just not as often these days, and it looks like poor kicking.

Bord na Mona man · February 08, 2009, 09:42:34 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2009, 09:22:39 PM
And by the way, when you say O'Driscoll has 'on occasion been considered the best in the world at his position', who considered him that? The media? The pundits? The very same people who praise O'Gara in other words? Or does that only count against you if you are bigged up from Munster?

O'Driscoll has been nominated for world player of the year and was made Lions captain in 2005.
To my memory O'Gara hasn't been decorated in the same manner. For several years, he hadn't even nailed down the starting position on the Ireland team.
My belief that his profile is high because he is surfing the crest of the Munster factor.
I still stand by the ascertion that Munster rugby, hurling, soccer and everything else tend to overhyped and mostly from within and that O'Gara's elevated status is just another manifestion of this.
This is not something I came with on a whim and funnily enough it isn't a unique view either.

AZOffaly · February 08, 2009, 10:12:56 PM

Again I ask you, who other than media is overhyping anything to do with Munster? Unless you mean fans? Are Munster fans capable of having observers from all over the NH come to the same conclusion about O'Gara. Come off it now.

O'Gara hadn't nailed down his position because a) he was young and b) Humphrey's wasn't a bad player himself.

Since he has nailed it down he has been a good player for Ireland, and recognised as such by commentators from other parts as well, not just Munster fans or Irish media.

And he is one of the reasons why Munster are on this 'crest' you mention.

I'll not contest that Munster are over hyped in the media, but that's a bizarre reason to talk down one of the key players for Munster and Ireland. Ask Brian O'Driscoll what O'Gara means to that team.

Don't let your hatred of Munster hurling or soccer cloud you on the individual merits of one of their rugby players, just because he is a Langer

thewobbler · February 08, 2009, 10:32:45 PM

AZ - the funny thing in all your argument is that apart from not being built like a beer keg, O'Gara offers no improvement over Andy Goode. And this is where the media play their part. While O'Gara is lauded by the Irish media for leading Munster's charge, Goode is ridiculed by the Irish media for playing an almost identical role for one of the biggest clubs in England. I don't get it.

My last point on all this is that while your list of inconsistent internationals below have had careers where they've continually been dropped, replaced and substituted when off form, Ronan O'Gara has not. Instead, he's had a free run at performing to whatever level he's up to for the best part of 50 odd games.

The only other top nation fly-halves who've had an unqualified hold of their jersey during that time have been Wilkinson, Carter and Larkham. Three men who simply dwarf the Munster man's abilities. Three men who've consistently been on top of their game. Spot the anomaly yet?

AZOffaly · February 08, 2009, 10:37:56 PM

O'Gara is not only lauded by the Irish media wobbler. Plenty of commentators across the NH agree that he is a fine fly half, especially over the last 5-6 years.

I'm not saying O'Gara is one of the best in the world, although I'm not that sure Larkham is that much better.

What I do know is that O'Gara has been immense for Munster in their European campaigns, and has been a good player for Ireland as well. It's not his fault that there's no serious opposition for his jersey, and I don't think it's fair to criticise him for that.

O'Gara is Ireland's top point scorer, the HEC top points scorer, has 2 European medals and 2 runners up medals. He didn't get all that by being a weak link.

As for your contention about Andy Goode, I think that's nuts. O'Gara is a much better passer than Goode, a much better goal kicker, and a much better game manager when he is in the groove. Goode is a poor man's O'Gara.

Dinny Breen · February 08, 2009, 11:14:38 PM

Quotethink O'Gara's game with regard to out of hand kicking has suffered a bit with the ELVs as well. In fact I think all out halves have, but it was such a staple of his that it's noticeable. Defenses are expecting kicks now a lot more, and are playing a bit deeper at wing and full back, so the little knock over the top that bounces into touch is harder to execute. Also the fact that a ball passed back over the '22 is not allowed go out on the full means a lot more kicking up the middle.

Great observation AZ and I agree it has affected his game. However on another point Larkham was a superb talent and simply the best distributor of a rugby ball I have ever seen ROG is not in that class but he is a good International out-half who is lacking competition and I agree that is not his fault but it is something that Kidney will have to work on and in fairness he brought Warwick in to Munster and he provides tremendous competition to ROG so I'm sure he's thinking about it. I suppose anyone involved in team sport hate to see anyone guaranteed their place, I mean competition for places is vibrate for any team sport, the Cats been the best example of that and a lot of our frustration with O'Gara stems from that.

Funnily enough I often thought the same for Hayes but these days I just sit back and admire that man, we won't know what have there till he's gone...

David McKeown · February 08, 2009, 11:41:05 PM

Im with AZ on this one whilst I didnt think hes had his best games for Ireland recently I think he is an excellent player. If I remember correctly I think I said at one stage after last years 6 nations that to me he looked like the only player playing consistently world class rugby. Mind you I may be wrong as I try to blank out last years 6 nations as much as possible

Tankie · February 08, 2009, 11:51:42 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on February 08, 2009, 11:41:05 PM
Im with AZ on this one whilst I didnt think hes had his best games for Ireland recently I think he is an excellent player. If I remember correctly I think I said at one stage after last years 6 nations that to me he looked like the only player playing consistently world class rugby. Mind you I may be wrong as I try to blank out last years 6 nations as much as possible

I think its wrong to say O'Gara is a bad player but when people compare him to Dan Carter or Johnny Wilko (his form before his injuries) is just ridiculous and laughable. There is no doubt he seem to play great when he has the Munster safety net but once he steps onto the international stage he is shown to be a good player but not a great player!

Joxer · February 09, 2009, 10:38:47 AM

Due to not been in the country I didnt get to see the game but my Father and Uncle was at it. Dad bought one of them Ref miics but it wouldnt work and was getting some news station?

Anyone else at the game have this problem?

magpie seanie · February 09, 2009, 11:32:58 AM

O'Gara is a good international out half. Playing for Munster he is usually outstanding. He is always picked for Ireland because he is realisitically the only show in town. I cannot see Sexton being good enough for Leinster, never mind Ireland. Young Humphreys might be the man to take over, looks to have lots of potential.

GaillimhIarthair · February 09, 2009, 11:39:01 AM

Quote from: Joxer on February 09, 2009, 10:38:47 AM
Due to not been in the country I didnt get to see the game but my Father and Uncle was at it. Dad bought one of them Ref miics but it wouldnt work and was getting some news station?

Anyone else at the game have this problem?

Yup, they were bolloxed for the whole game.

Best rugby match I have been at for a long while. The pack were superb, with Heaslip and O'Connell particularly leading the line. The amount of lineout ball that POC called on himseld in the second half was unreal. He gave ROG a well deserved rollocking too at one point after another loose kick. Definitely Lions captain material IMHO. Great to see such a big support over from France for the game also, really added to a superb occassion.

And to the 3 rugby intellects sitting around me in section 510 of the Cusack stand -

Stade Francis is the rugby club in Paris; Paris St Germain is the soccer club

Overthebar! · February 09, 2009, 11:40:03 AM

joxer i may be wrong but I think you have to be at the game to benefit from one of those ref mics!

ludermor · February 09, 2009, 11:44:00 AM

Must say i was very surprised by the French support, in numbers and in character! We went to the bridge bar on amien st after the match and it was at least 60% french, they were mighty craic (think they were all Bretons). They had bagpipes with them and were singing away for the night.
Would love to see the reaction if they went tot he same bar on a normal Saturday night!

mackers · February 09, 2009, 11:49:38 AM

It was great to see the back line moving with some purpose again when we decided to hold on to the ball and not kick it away as covered earlier in the thread. On a seperate issue, does Jonathan Davies bug the sh1te out of any other posters? I know it's difficult when your own country are playing but the cheerleading style of commentary really got my goat. It was either him or Ryle Nugent! Not good!