Looks like Rishi is announcing a summer election.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69042935 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69042935)
Maybe hoping for a bit of Euros feel good from the electorate but surely they are on the road out.
Jeffrey about to lose his income and expenses too.
Bad timing for the DUP. "Safeguarding the Union" dead in the water, the ruling that the Rwanda act doesn't apply in NI. Big Gavin Robinson under pressure in East Belfast, South Antrim maybe in the mix. While I think he'll be re-elected, Eastwood's majority of 17,000 should be well reduced. For SF, there's Fermanagh & Sth Tyrone. Michelle Gildernew is standing in the Euro elections in the South. If she wins a seat she can't run for Westminster and even if she doesn't win, surely SF have to declare their candidate in FST before 7 June?
Half the country will be away on holiday here. I'll have to get the postal vote sorted.
Jamie worried about marching season
that was funny. Man was soaked to the soundtrack of things can only get better. West wing this was not
Sad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
Hopefully ye'll lose a DUPUDA MP or 2 in the 6!
Quote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
He's a politician but has less malign intent than the Tories.
A bit like Biden and Trump, you can have an unimpressive candidate or an outright dangerous one.
Loved the soundtrack in the background of Rishis announcement. Someone blaring out 'Things can only get better'
He kept that quiet! Or just said f**k it
The more you see of Sunak the more you realise he's just a rich kid cosplaying. Labour aren't perfect but I sure as shite know who I would be voting for if i were voting in GB, ABC!
https://members.parliament.uk/constituencies
Seems a lot of Tory MPs aren't happy with his decision.
Great stuff. Let the slaying begin.
Quote from: Nanderson on May 22, 2024, 06:06:38 PMLoved the soundtrack in the background of Rishis announcement. Someone blaring out 'Things can only get better'
I'd say Peter Cunnah will be getting a few quid in royalties over the coming weeks
Quote from: bennydorano on May 22, 2024, 06:24:44 PMHe kept that quiet! Or just said f**k it
The more you see of Sunak the more you realise he's just a rich kid cosplaying. Labour aren't perfect but I sure as shite know who I would be voting for if i were voting in GB, ABC!
https://members.parliament.uk/constituencies
Rumours of more letters of no confidence recently and further possible defections across the floor may have forced his hand.
I would say his hand was forced. Those ***** were hanging on robbing the place blind as much as they could and would do it for as long as they could. Something must have turned him.
Yeah he's an out of his depth rich kid.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2024, 05:50:38 PMQuote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
He's a politician but has less malign intent than the Tories.
A bit like Biden and Trump, you can have an unimpressive candidate or an outright dangerous one.
I'd say theres plenty in Gaza who'd say Bidens fair dangerous as well!
The British public will get bored of Starmer and Reeves very quickly, because they are very boring.
Quote from: Sportacus on May 22, 2024, 10:36:29 PMThe British public will get bored of Starmer and Reeves very quickly, because they are very boring.
They don't need to be interesting, just competent - and I think they are
Hopefully my local MP Fleggory Campbell won't be making a bid for reelection, surely served his time by now and has gotten alot quieter over the last few years
Quote from: Brendan on May 23, 2024, 07:42:05 AMHopefully my local MP Fleggory Campbell won't be making a bid for reelection, surely served his time by now and has gotten alot quieter over the last few years
Handy money is hard to turn down.
Never understood why folk look for some sort of celebrity type figure to run a country. As far as i'm concerned you want someone that is competent and just gets on with the job. The less controversial the better. In short do the job you were elected to do. Hated Major at the time but when i look back he was in different league to what came after him in his own party.
I'd say he'll still stand. Another few years on the gravy train.
The timing is interesting for the DUP.
There'll be some protests with Jamie and Jim at the band parades up until the election. It'll be all against the DUP sell-out and sea border.
Is Campell's seat a safe one for him? It could be an interesting election. A good few postal votes with people on holidays also.
Can see a few more independents getting in in Ingerland as both Labour and Tory are solidly pro zionist parties now. Hopefully that's a red line for many.
Sad reality is there are no major parties that I can see that are in good faith really operating in the prime interests of the electorate.
I'd take a benevolent dictator at this stage ahead of the sham democracies being served up in the west now.
Quote from: maddog on May 23, 2024, 07:50:23 AMNever understood why folk look for some sort of celebrity type figure to run a country. As far as i'm concerned you want someone that is competent and just gets on with the job. The less controversial the better. In short do the job you were elected to do. Hated Major at the time but when i look back he was in different league to what came after him in his own party.
He's not coming out of those blood scandal enquiries too well either.
England a complete basket case but then are we any different here.
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2024, 07:52:00 AMI'd say he'll still stand. Another few years on the gravy train.
The timing is interesting for the DUP.
There'll be some protests with Jamie and Jim at the band parades up until the election. It'll be all against the DUP sell-out and sea border.
Is Campell's seat a safe one for him? It could be an interesting election. A good few postal votes with people on holidays also.
Going by Stormont elections the Shinners are getting closer but the last Westminster was a disaster for them even the stoops overtook their candidate, a bit like Upper Bann, a perfect storm could see them cause an upset
Well whatever happens, we know that the next British PM will be a Tory.
Quote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
Agree with the sentiment.
My fervent hope is that Starmer has been coy in terms of his true intentions with issues such as Brexit, and that once in government, he will look to effectively ditch Brexit, address the desperate situation that the NHS (along with a range of social care services) finds itself in and renationalise things like water and transport.
My fear though is that he will simply be a Tory of a different colour, which will leave a very bleak outlook for us all, that only some sort of longer term seismic shift in politics will address.
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 23, 2024, 08:16:54 AMQuote from: maddog on May 23, 2024, 07:50:23 AMNever understood why folk look for some sort of celebrity type figure to run a country. As far as i'm concerned you want someone that is competent and just gets on with the job. The less controversial the better. In short do the job you were elected to do. Hated Major at the time but when i look back he was in different league to what came after him in his own party.
He's not coming out of those blood scandal enquiries too well either.
England a complete basket case but then are we any different here.
You'll be hearing a lot about Education from the Tories during the campaign, there's been recognised improvements in educational standards in England & Wales in recent years, Scotland has regressed, NI stalled or regressed.
My understanding is that Swann, Long and any other minister running will have to step down once Westminster is dissolved (next Friday). Not doing much for stability in NI. SF had already announced that no Stormont Minister will run for Westminster, so that's Archibald and O'Dowd (and prob Gildernew) not running in constituencies where they have a high profile.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 23, 2024, 09:40:30 AMQuote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
Agree with the sentiment.
My fervent hope is that Starmer has been coy in terms of his true intentions with issues such as Brexit, and that once in government, he will look to effectively ditch Brexit, address the desperate situation that the NHS (along with a range of social care services) finds itself in and renationalise things like water and transport.
My fear though is that he will simply be a Tory of a different colour, which will leave a very bleak outlook for us all, that only some sort of longer term seismic shift in politics will address.
You or I might wish Starmer do you these things. But he believe that people in England do not want this, otherwise he would propose them, and a politician that runs on one manifesto intending to do something else is no help.
However, without having seen the Labour proposals I expect that they will say something about practical cooperation with the EU and this will reduce the damage from Brexit. History shows that the NHS does better under Labour, the problem now is that there is not a lot of money in the bank. Some of the improvement will have to come from better management rather than just more money; the best hospitals, trusts etc perform much better than the worst ones.
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 23, 2024, 10:37:31 AMMy understanding is that Swann, Long and any other minister running will have to step down once Westminster is dissolved (next Friday). Not doing much for stability in NI. SF had already announced that no Stormont Minister will run for Westminster, so that's Archibald and O'Dowd (and prob Gildernew) not running in constituencies where they have a high profile.
However, Gildernew is running for the European parliament in the Midlands North West constituency, so not quite committed to Stormont alone.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2024, 10:50:02 AMa politician that runs on one manifesto intending to do something else is no help.
Well let's examine some of the pledges that Starmer made during his Labour Party leadership contest.
Back then, he pledged to nationalise Water, energy, rail and mail. By 2022, it was announced that Labour, under his leadership, would not nationalise water, energy or rail.
He had a list of other pledges on his website at the time, which included pledges on eg tuition fee abolition. Once he won the leadership, he rowed back on each of the pledges and the info was removed from his website.
Another of his pledges was to "bring back" free movement of people and to defend migrant's rights. By November 2022, he announced his intention to end 'immigration dependency', a stance so right wing that he won the priase of Nigel Farage (he also complained that there are too many foreigners working in the NHS).
He pledged that he would "work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people". Since taking the party leadership, he banned Labour frontbenchers from attending picket lines and even sacked one of his MPs for standing alongside striking RMT workers.
He pledged to tackle climate change with a £28bn spend. Then he got his bum in the seat and slashed that committment to £4.7bn.
He also pledged to end factionalism in the party and end attacks from within on Jeremy Corbyn, and I don't think I need to say more on how well he stuck to that one.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 23, 2024, 11:45:47 AMQuote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2024, 10:50:02 AMa politician that runs on one manifesto intending to do something else is no help.
Well let's examine some of the pledges that Starmer made during his Labour Party leadership contest.
Back then, he pledged to nationalise Water, energy, rail and mail. By 2022, it was announced that Labour, under his leadership, would not nationalise water, energy or rail.
He had a list of other pledges on his website at the time, which included pledges on eg tuition fee abolition. Once he won the leadership, he rowed back on each of the pledges and the info was removed from his website.
Another of his pledges was to "bring back" free movement of people and to defend migrant's rights. By November 2022, he announced his intention to end 'immigration dependency', a stance so right wing that he won the priase of Nigel Farage (he also complained that there are too many foreigners working in the NHS).
He pledged that he would "work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people". Since taking the party leadership, he banned Labour frontbenchers from attending picket lines and even sacked one of his MPs for standing alongside striking RMT workers.
He pledged to tackle climate change with a £28bn spend. Then he got his bum in the seat and slashed that committment to £4.7bn.
He also pledged to end factionalism in the party and end attacks from within on Jeremy Corbyn, and I don't think I need to say more on how well he stuck to that one.
A leader alone does not determine the party policy. As I said, the party has to propose policies that will get it elected or it will change nothing and free movement of people is a policy that does not seem popular in England.
Soem of you need to accept Corbyn is gone and isn't coming back ffs
You specifically referred to "a politician that runs on one manifesto intending to do something else"
I'm simply pointing out that Kier Starmer has some significant form when it comes to running on on the back of manifesto pledges that he has no intention of honouring.
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 23, 2024, 12:05:48 PMSoem of you need to accept Corbyn is gone and isn't coming back ffs
Who suggested otherwise, Kidder?
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 22, 2024, 09:02:54 PMQuote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2024, 05:50:38 PMQuote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
He's a politician but has less malign intent than the Tories.
A bit like Biden and Trump, you can have an unimpressive candidate or an outright dangerous one.
I'd say theres plenty in Gaza who'd say Bidens fair dangerous as well!
Biden hasn't stopped the Israelis in Gaza, but he did not cause it.
My prediction for this election in the North is that Nationalists will outpoll Unionists. This happened for first time ever at the local elections last year. The trend cannot be reversed and Unionists will never outpoll Natiobalists ever again, including in a Unity Referendum.
Quote from: Feckitt on May 23, 2024, 01:43:49 PMMy prediction for this election in the North is that Nationalists will outpoll Unionists. This happened for first time ever at the local elections last year. The trend cannot be reversed and Unionists will never outpoll Natiobalists ever again, including in a Unity Referendum.
They should but may also be giving up a few percentage points to help Farry in North Down and Long in East Belfast, whereas Unionists will step aside to help another Unionist and overall won't give up Unionist percentages.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 23, 2024, 11:45:47 AMQuote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2024, 10:50:02 AMa politician that runs on one manifesto intending to do something else is no help.
Well let's examine some of the pledges that Starmer made during his Labour Party leadership contest.
Back then, he pledged to nationalise Water, energy, rail and mail. By 2022, it was announced that Labour, under his leadership, would not nationalise water, energy or rail.
He had a list of other pledges on his website at the time, which included pledges on eg tuition fee abolition. Once he won the leadership, he rowed back on each of the pledges and the info was removed from his website.
Another of his pledges was to "bring back" free movement of people and to defend migrant's rights. By November 2022, he announced his intention to end 'immigration dependency', a stance so right wing that he won the priase of Nigel Farage (he also complained that there are too many foreigners working in the NHS).
He pledged that he would "work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people". Since taking the party leadership, he banned Labour frontbenchers from attending picket lines and even sacked one of his MPs for standing alongside striking RMT workers.
He pledged to tackle climate change with a £28bn spend. Then he got his bum in the seat and slashed that committment to £4.7bn.
He also pledged to end factionalism in the party and end attacks from within on Jeremy Corbyn, and I don't think I need to say more on how well he stuck to that one.
Like I said, the bastard couldn't lie straight in bed. You cannot trust a word that comes out of his mouth.
Quote from: Feckitt on May 23, 2024, 01:43:49 PMMy prediction for this election in the North is that Nationalists will outpoll Unionists. This happened for first time ever at the local elections last year. The trend cannot be reversed and Unionists will never outpoll Natiobalists ever again, including in a Unity Referendum.
Maybe, but there is no great incentive to turn out in some constituencies. Say in Newry and Armagh, where people could not name their Westminster MP and where there is no real doubt about who will be elected.
Quote from: weareros on May 23, 2024, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Feckitt on May 23, 2024, 01:43:49 PMMy prediction for this election in the North is that Nationalists will outpoll Unionists. This happened for first time ever at the local elections last year. The trend cannot be reversed and Unionists will never outpoll Natiobalists ever again, including in a Unity Referendum.
They should but may also be giving up a few percentage points to help Farry in North Down and Long in East Belfast, whereas Unionists will step aside to help another Unionist and overall won't give up Unionist percentages.
I wonder, for all the talk of infighting within unionism currently, will they come together and have a pact?
Christ almighty, alright there Sunak.
Quote from: Rebel84 on May 23, 2024, 07:03:13 PMQuote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
He was head of the CPS when they failed to prosecute Jimmy Saville back in 2009, though he claims he knew nothing about it. Sure.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/21/keir-starmer-not-told-about-dropping-of-jimmy-savile-case-say-sources-dpp-labour
Some of the lads need to familiarise themselves with the term "the lesser of two evils". By their very nature no politician is going to tick every box but if you find yourself rooting for the Tory candidate *ever* then you need to take a look at yourself.
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2024, 05:08:47 PMQuote from: weareros on May 23, 2024, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Feckitt on May 23, 2024, 01:43:49 PMMy prediction for this election in the North is that Nationalists will outpoll Unionists. This happened for first time ever at the local elections last year. The trend cannot be reversed and Unionists will never outpoll Natiobalists ever again, including in a Unity Referendum.
They should but may also be giving up a few percentage points to help Farry in North Down and Long in East Belfast, whereas Unionists will step aside to help another Unionist and overall won't give up Unionist percentages.
I wonder, for all the talk of infighting within unionism currently, will they come together and have a pact?
Belfast East : Alliance GAIN (only if Long candidate
Belfast West : SF HOLD
Belfast North : SF HOLD
Belfast South / Mid Down : SDLP HOLD
Strangford : DUP HOLD
Lagan Valley : DUP HOLD
North Down : INDEPENDENT GAIN
South Down : SF HOLD
Upper Bann : DUP HOLD
Newry Armagh : SF HOLD
Mid Ulster : SF HOLD
West Tyrone : SF HOLD
FST : SF HOLD (50/50 candidate massive)
Foyle : SDLP HOLD
East Derry : DUP HOLD
East Antrim : DUP HOLD
South Antrim : UUP GAIN
North Antrim : DUP HOLD
SF : 7
DUP : 6
SDLP : 2
ALLIANCE : 1
UUP : 1
IND : 1
I am not sure on Lagan Valley and north belfast there. I would have my doubts SF will get in again in north belfast. In lagan valley maybe? (though maybe wishful) DUP may be ousted.
Lagan Valley boundaries have changed, now bringing in some of north Lurgan (I will now be voting in Lagan Valley).
I voted in North Belfast last time when Dodds was ousted, I hope for the same luck in Lagan Valley this time round.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 23, 2024, 07:24:42 PMSome of the lads need to familiarise themselves with the term "the lesser of two evils". By their very nature no politician is going to tick every box but if you find yourself rooting for the Tory candidate *ever* then you need to take a look at yourself.
I haven't seen anyone here rooting for the Tory candidate. And there's no question that Labour is the lesser of two evils, but the point is that as far as Kier Starmer himself goes, you could barely more than slide a cigarette paper between himself and your average Tory.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 23, 2024, 08:23:18 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on May 23, 2024, 07:24:42 PMSome of the lads need to familiarise themselves with the term "the lesser of two evils". By their very nature no politician is going to tick every box but if you find yourself rooting for the Tory candidate *ever* then you need to take a look at yourself.
I haven't seen anyone here rooting for the Tory candidate. And there's no question that Labour is the lesser of two evils, but the point is that as far as Kier Starmer himself goes, you could barely more than slide a cigarette paper between himself and your average Tory.Quote from: Snapchap on May 23, 2024, 08:23:18 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on May 23, 2024, 07:24:42 PMSome of the lads need to familiarise themselves with the term "the lesser of two evils". By their very nature no politician is going to tick every box but if you find yourself rooting for the Tory candidate *ever* then you need to take a look at yourself.
I haven't seen anyone here rooting for the Tory candidate. And there's no question that Labour is the lesser of two evils, but the point is that as far as Kier Starmer himself goes, you could barely more than slide a cigarette paper between himself and your average Tory.
Look back over recent history- Blair was voted in, Corbyn was not and there is a reason for that. Starmer clearly closer to Blair than Corby. despite being part of his team at one stage.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 23, 2024, 08:23:18 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on May 23, 2024, 07:24:42 PMSome of the lads need to familiarise themselves with the term "the lesser of two evils". By their very nature no politician is going to tick every box but if you find yourself rooting for the Tory candidate *ever* then you need to take a look at yourself.
I haven't seen anyone here rooting for the Tory candidate. And there's no question that Labour is the lesser of two evils, but the point is that as far as Kier Starmer himself goes, you could barely more than slide a cigarette paper between himself and your average Tory.
The average Tory, as represented by people now driven out of the party, was fairly middle of the road, but the party left those behind in its recent governments. Someone close to middle ground is ideal.
Not sure why some are getting so exercised about Starmer, he has never been in power so whatever he has said has had no effect on anyone.
On some issues he has had to align closer to the Tory position, if the issue is popular with voters. In others he will have to detach Labour from it and hammer the Tories, that's opposition for you.
You can't do anything if you aren't in power. He and Labour should be judged when they are in office.
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 23, 2024, 07:43:15 PMI am not sure on Lagan Valley and north belfast there. I would have my doubts SF will get in again in north belfast. In lagan valley maybe? (though maybe wishful) DUP may be ousted.
SF would be strong favourites for North Belfast. They're very active on the ground and other parties have a despondency about them.
Corbyn standing as an Independent and not for ToryLite
Hope he gets in.
SF should be comfortable in North Belfast, boundary changes help. FST should be the same again boundary changes help I'm actually amazed with 20 yrs of demographic shift unionists still are competitive there. Turnout for Elliot amongst unionist must be very very high.
The other SF seats are nailed on
I think SDLP will hold their 2 seats but nothing like the majorities they had last time
Upper Bann and east Derry could be in play but nationalist turnout here for whatever reason is poor.
Alliance will win EB if long is standing and they will hold North Down. I think the gap in Lagan Valley is too big so will miss out there, they will also do well in East Antrim and Strangford.
UUP could win south Antrim.
Looking forward to it should be the most interesting Westminster election here for a while.
wonder would sdlp look at south down and think we have a chance
weren`t too far away last time
Quote from: naka on May 24, 2024, 01:53:18 PMwonder would sdlp look at south down and think we have a chance
weren`t too far away last time
I'd say the gap has grown since the last time. Who's going to stand that would make a difference?
Quote from: clonian on May 24, 2024, 02:16:22 PMQuote from: naka on May 24, 2024, 01:53:18 PMwonder would sdlp look at south down and think we have a chance
weren`t too far away last time
I'd say the gap has grown since the last time. Who's going to stand that would make a difference?
probably right, i am simply looking to see which constituencies could there be a shock.
SF have a slicker operation but chris Hazard has fallen away, a few years ago he was front and centre of a fair bit of SF publicity.
Quote from: naka on May 24, 2024, 03:55:56 PMQuote from: clonian on May 24, 2024, 02:16:22 PMQuote from: naka on May 24, 2024, 01:53:18 PMwonder would sdlp look at south down and think we have a chance
weren`t too far away last time
I'd say the gap has grown since the last time. Who's going to stand that would make a difference?
probably right, i am simply looking to see which constituencies could there be a shock.
SF have a slicker operation but chris Hazard has fallen away, a few years ago he was front and centre of a fair bit of SF publicity.
I've said this before. MPs in Westminister don't make a difference in reality.
Out of sight, out of mind. SF do the right thing.
I'd say, as a quiz, it'd be hard to name the 18 MPs from the north. Unless you're a political anarok. Stormont is local and in the news a lot more.
If you look at ni question time in London, there's about 5 people at it. Nobody cares. Only people interested in being an MP is someone like the SDLP's Richie and unionists like Dodds etc. who want to get a title bestowed on them after their time in up. That's what the senior DUP members are after - Paisley and Campbell.
Granted, people will vote in huge numbers but ultimately it's pointless.
In 2016, against Hillary, Trump ran a very successful deterrence campaign.
Target voter turnout in groups that historically voted Democrat, by targeting individuals within each of those groups, who then repeat the negative messaging.
You will hear that Starmer essentially is Jeremy Corbyn. He isn't, Corbyn isn't in Starmer's party and is standing and campaigning against Starmer's party.
You will hear that Labour can't be trusted on economics as they will blow the budget and separately that they will do nothing different as they will stick to the Tory rules and therefore by implication, to Tory policies. It can't be both, and in fact it's neither.
You will hear that Labour have an open door policy on immigration. They won't.
You will hear that Labour will nationalise industries whilst at the same time breaking Starmer's leadership campaign promise to nationalise industries. It doesn't matter that the 2 can't both be true, as long as 2 different groups of voters believe that one of them is true.
The Tory election campaign, such as it is, is all about Starmer, possibly with a hint of Raynor. Be prepared for every manner of dirt to be flung at him. The Jimmy Saville stuff will resurface. The donkey field etc. expect more and more of this to pop up in social media rather than the traditional press. The latter don't like backing losers, and so whilst they dearly want a Tory victory, they know it isn't possible so they might go softer on Labour than you would imagine.
The Tory campaign has more money than ever before. It also has less canvassers than ever before and in some places is struggling for candidates. The rules have been changed to allow more money to be spent. This is Sunak vs Starmer and a central, media driven, rather than local, candidate driven election.
Of the many reasons being proffered as to why so many sitting Tory MPs are not seeking reelection, one that is not discussed is that a few of them don't want anything to do with the campaign, and the direction it is likely to go.
So Rishi rich wants mandatory national service for 18 year olds. We need to get as far away as possible from these people... (though I suspect it's about as likely as a bridge to Scotland)
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 25, 2024, 10:36:32 PMSo Rishi rich wants mandatory national service for 18 year olds. We need to get as far away as possible from these people... (though I suspect it's about as likely as a bridge to Scotland)
National Service didn't happen in the occupied six countries during WW2 and wouldn't happen here this time either. Sunak pandering to the far right.
Long to stand for Alliance in East Belfast, this will pressurise the new leader of the DUP.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2024, 12:49:17 AMLong to stand for Alliance in East Belfast, this will pressurise the new leader of the DUP.
She was always going to stand. I don't know why she didn't just come out as say so months ago when it was reported that the decision was made. Two party leaders going for one seat now. Expect local media outlets to totally ignore every other constituency between now and polling day.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 27, 2024, 09:30:51 AMQuote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2024, 12:49:17 AMLong to stand for Alliance in East Belfast, this will pressurise the new leader of the DUP.
She was always going to stand. I don't know why she didn't just come out as say so months ago when it was reported that the decision was made. Two party leaders going for one seat now. Expect local media outlets to totally ignore every other constituency between now and polling day.
Probably just to make it look like there would be focus on her role as Justice Minister, when the reality is that one eye has always been on Westminster.
Word on the streets is that in North Down Alex Easton will be the "unified" Unionist candidate (i.e. TUV/Reform and DUP), but if he gets in he'll allocate his Stormont MLA post to a certain Donaghadee Bin Orator..
Alliance maybe planting this seed to scare anyone with a titter of wit away from him.
Tim "Nice but dim" Collins won't cause much of a wave in this area. Doug Beattie has made a major faux pas here in picking a fellow army buddy.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 28, 2024, 10:32:15 AMWord on the streets is that in North Down Alex Easton will be the "unified" Unionist candidate (i.e. TUV/Reform and DUP), but if he gets in he'll allocate his Stormont MLA post to a certain Donaghadee Bin Orator..
Alliance maybe planting this seed to scare anyone with a titter of wit away from him.
Tim "Nice but dim" Collins won't cause much of a wave in this area. Doug Beattie has made a major faux pas here in picking a fellow army buddy.
Please anybody win but Tim Collins, even the DUP. Imagine 4-5 years of listening to that ego bloviating on the radio. No thanks.
Edit: that surely can't be serious about the Binman.
Don't know a thing about Collins other than the bit about Bush loving his "let's not be conquerors" speech. What's he done since?!
Quote from: gallsman on May 28, 2024, 10:51:55 AMDon't know a thing about Collins other than the bit about Bush loving his "let's not be conquerors" speech. What's he done since?!
He's dined out on that since.
A bit like that móron, Johnny Mercer, no real intelligence to speak off even through the plummy voice.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113)
Abbott says Labour wont have her and Starmer says he doesnt know what she's on about.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 29, 2024, 12:29:17 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113)
Abbott says Labour wont have her and Starmer says he doesnt know what she's on about.
Shambles from Labour, but I doubt it will cost them a huge amount of votes.
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:38:31 PMQuote from: lurganblue on May 29, 2024, 12:29:17 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113)
Abbott says Labour wont have her and Starmer says he doesnt know what she's on about.
Shambles from Labour, but I doubt it will cost them a huge amount of votes.
The Muslim vote may not turn out and that may have an impact on several potential Labour candidates.
Starmer, Lammy and Nandy in particular are in the claws of the Israeli lobby and their funds.
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:18:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
She's been a member for years and years, would have been involved with canvassing and the like.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 29, 2024, 02:58:58 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:18:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
She's been a member for years and years, would have been involved with canvassing and the like.
I get the impression that Unionists (and the media) have been blindsided by this.
On current numbers, the Lib Dems will become the official opposition. First past the post is bollix.
Mind you some of the sitting Conservatives might retain their seats, owing to good local work and perhaps being remainers and anti Johnson, if there are any left.
LAB: 540 (+343)
CON: 29 (-347)
LIB: 46 (+38)
REF: 0 (-)
GRN: 2 (+1)
SNP: 12 (-36)
National Service for all 18yo's...
Tax relief on rented property
Cancelling "Mickey Mouse" degrees.
The Torys are throwing out policies two to a dozen to see if any of them will actually get traction with voters.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 29, 2024, 04:53:39 PMNational Service for all 18yo's...
Tax relief on rented property
Cancelling "Mickey Mouse" degrees.
The Torys are throwing out policies two to a dozen to see if any of them will actually get traction with voters.
That'll all go well with their voter base.
The Mickey Mouse degree thing is a good idea tbf
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 03:46:52 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 29, 2024, 02:58:58 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:18:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
She's been a member for years and years, would have been involved with canvassing and the like.
I get the impression that Unionists (and the media) have been blindsided by this.
I remember her saying that there should be a re-united Ireland as the health system would be a lot better...something like this?
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2024, 04:40:11 PMOn current numbers, the Lib Dems will become the official opposition. First past the post is bollix.
Mind you some of the sitting Conservatives might retain their seats, owing to good local work and perhaps being remainers and anti Johnson, if there are any left.
LAB: 540 (+343)
CON: 29 (-347)
LIB: 46 (+38)
REF: 0 (-)
GRN: 2 (+1)
SNP: 12 (-36)
Is the SNP in for a tanking in Scotland?
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 05:02:18 PMQuote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2024, 04:40:11 PMOn current numbers, the Lib Dems will become the official opposition. First past the post is bollix.
Mind you some of the sitting Conservatives might retain their seats, owing to good local work and perhaps being remainers and anti Johnson, if there are any left.
LAB: 540 (+343)
CON: 29 (-347)
LIB: 46 (+38)
REF: 0 (-)
GRN: 2 (+1)
SNP: 12 (-36)
Is the SNP in for a tanking in Scotland?
Yeah, I think they'll lose about half their seats - I think they have about 44 at the moment.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2024, 04:40:11 PMOn current numbers, the Lib Dems will become the official opposition. First past the post is bollix.
Mind you some of the sitting Conservatives might retain their seats, owing to good local work and perhaps being remainers and anti Johnson, if there are any left.
LAB: 540 (+343)
CON: 29 (-347)
LIB: 46 (+38)
REF: 0 (-)
GRN: 2 (+1)
SNP: 12 (-36)
Still 29 seats too many for the c***ts!
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 05:05:49 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 05:02:18 PMQuote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2024, 04:40:11 PMOn current numbers, the Lib Dems will become the official opposition. First past the post is bollix.
Mind you some of the sitting Conservatives might retain their seats, owing to good local work and perhaps being remainers and anti Johnson, if there are any left.
LAB: 540 (+343)
CON: 29 (-347)
LIB: 46 (+38)
REF: 0 (-)
GRN: 2 (+1)
SNP: 12 (-36)
Is the SNP in for a tanking in Scotland?
Yeah, I think they'll lose about half their seats - I think they have about 44 at the moment.
They have lost some momentum since Salmond and Sturgeon were flying high.
Quote from: markl121 on May 29, 2024, 05:01:09 PMThe Mickey Mouse degree thing is a good idea tbf
Would going to Oxford and studying Classics, ancient languages, literature, history, and philosophy be considered a Mickey Mouse degree?
Quote from: johnnycool on May 29, 2024, 05:35:05 PMQuote from: markl121 on May 29, 2024, 05:01:09 PMThe Mickey Mouse degree thing is a good idea tbf
Would going to Oxford and studying Classics, ancient languages, literature, history, and philosophy be considered a Mickey Mouse degree?
Uni should teach you two things:
- how to research and learn independently of tuition
- knowledge in topics of immediate value in society
Far too many courses in far too many universities aren't worth two sh!tes for either.
If Oxford were churning out hundreds of graduates a year in ancient languages, then I'd suggest most of those graduates will find the topics covered useless; but because of the standards and expectations, they will have learned how to dig up information and learn in other matters through the rest of their life.
Probably fair to say that the average student could pick a better subject than the classics in somewhere like Oxford, but it should still offer enough transferrable skills to be useful.
... and as for the general subject.
Representative democracy is a load of balls.
If the job of running the country were based on qualifications and interview, how many of them would even get beyond initial CV screening?
Something could probably be salvaged from it if there were two houses:
- elected house of commons to bring the will of the people to governance
- elected house of professionals (professional bodies electing technically adept individuals)
No bill can be passed into law without approval of both houses.
Funnily enough, no room there for lord and lady of the manor. Who have done f**k all but either lick the right arse or fall out of the right arse.
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 05:01:20 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 03:46:52 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 29, 2024, 02:58:58 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:18:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
She's been a member for years and years, would have been involved with canvassing and the like.
I get the impression that Unionists (and the media) have been blindsided by this.
I remember her saying that there should be a re-united Ireland as the health system would be a lot better...something like this?
Yes thats her. She's right.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 29, 2024, 07:54:25 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 05:01:20 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 03:46:52 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 29, 2024, 02:58:58 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:18:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
She's been a member for years and years, would have been involved with canvassing and the like.
I get the impression that Unionists (and the media) have been blindsided by this.
I remember her saying that there should be a re-united Ireland as the health system would be a lot better...something like this?
Yes thats her. She's right.
Originally from Carrickmore I believe so no surprise she has got on board with SF.
From seeing her being interviewed over the course of the nurses strike she comes across well. For SF she would have been a good person to have south of the border as they are a bit light when it comes to strong performers. I imagine she will win fairly easy but as an abstaining MP she will not do a lot or be seen much after that.
This is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
The thing with Health portfolio is that nobody with any sense wants to touch it from a political perspective.
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
You'd imagine someone with her background would be a prime candidate down the line.
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Can't see her trading being an MP for MLA.
I would be surprised to see her around Stormount that much as she would have ability to make some of her colleagues (dare I say party leader) look very average in terms of how she can handle herself / comes across.
She would be an asset to any political party as she has done the heavy lifting in the real world unlike the rest of them.
Quote from: LC on May 29, 2024, 09:39:09 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Can't see her trading being an MP for MLA.
I would be surprised to see her around Stormount that much as she would have ability to make some of her colleagues (dare I say party leader) look very average in terms of how she can handle herself / comes across.
She would be an asset to any political party as she has done the heavy lifting in the real world unlike the rest of them.
First bit- O'Neills improved big time imo since taking the job and comes across really well for the most part these days.
100% on the second.
DUP won't stand in FST official
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 29, 2024, 10:03:48 PMDUP won't stand in FST official
Didn't stand in 2019 did they?
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Bet there are a few Sinn Fein members pissed off in FST tonight who have worked their @@@@@ off the past few years and hoping that maybe they would in with a shout of being selected .............
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 29, 2024, 10:36:05 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Bet there are a few Sinn Fein members pissed off in FST tonight who have worked their @@@@@ off the past few years and hoping that maybe they would in with a shout of being selected .............
I wouldn't think so.
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 29, 2024, 10:36:05 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Bet there are a few Sinn Fein members pissed off in FST tonight who have worked their @@@@@ off the past few years and hoping that maybe they would in with a shout of being selected .............
The hard workers are usually overlooked these days anyway for someone who is the "right fit"
In the tightest seat in the whole 2019 election, I would imagine they would be backing the person who can retain the seat for the party.
A high profile big hitter is required in this seat for either side to get over the line.
Hopefully the demographics have shifted enough that its more comfortable this time.
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 29, 2024, 10:36:05 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Bet there are a few Sinn Fein members pissed off in FST tonight who have worked their @@@@@ off the past few years and hoping that maybe they would in with a shout of being selected .............
If people in grassroots politics are pissed off for not being personally rewarded then it's probably best they weren't selected.
Gavin admits there is an Irish Sea Border. Pathetic that Nolan had Jeffrey in front of him for hours and let him spoof away that checks and customs were gone - there are checks every day of the week at the ports in Belfast and Larne.
Quote from: Sportacus on May 30, 2024, 09:37:58 AMGavin admits there is an Irish Sea Border. Pathetic that Nolan had Jeffrey in front of him for hours and let him spoof away that checks and customs were gone - there are checks every day of the week at the ports in Belfast and Larne.
As there always has been?
What ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Neither candidate inspires. Least bad wins.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 30, 2024, 11:06:17 AMQuote from: Sportacus on May 30, 2024, 09:37:58 AMGavin admits there is an Irish Sea Border. Pathetic that Nolan had Jeffrey in front of him for hours and let him spoof away that checks and customs were gone - there are checks every day of the week at the ports in Belfast and Larne.
As there always has been?
Not on your Tesco groceries.
Quote from: Sportacus on May 30, 2024, 01:04:50 PMQuote from: lurganblue on May 30, 2024, 11:06:17 AMQuote from: Sportacus on May 30, 2024, 09:37:58 AMGavin admits there is an Irish Sea Border. Pathetic that Nolan had Jeffrey in front of him for hours and let him spoof away that checks and customs were gone - there are checks every day of the week at the ports in Belfast and Larne.
As there always has been?
Not on your Tesco groceries.
Is that why there were no bananas the other day. Stuck in Larne
SF not standing in Belfast East, Belfast South and Mid Down, Lagan Valley and North Down.
Another few votes for Alliance to stop the DUP.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 30, 2024, 03:47:20 PMSF not standing in Belfast East, Belfast South and Mid Down, Lagan Valley and North Down.
Another few votes for Alliance to stop the DUP.
Will alliance do the same in fst?
Quote from: armaghniac on May 30, 2024, 03:47:20 PMSF not standing in Belfast East, Belfast South and Mid Down, Lagan Valley and North Down.
Another few votes for Alliance to stop the DUP.
Are the SDLP standing in any of these?
Quote from: armaghniac on May 30, 2024, 03:47:20 PMBelfast South and Mid Down
Wasn't aware of that name change.
Quote from: LC on May 29, 2024, 09:39:09 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Can't see her trading being an MP for MLA.
Maybe Minister for Health in the Dail?
I see the SDLP are running in all 18 areas. Eastwood is a joke.
SF running in 14.
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2024, 07:27:12 AMI see the SDLP are running in all 18 areas. Eastwood is a joke.
SF running in 14.
Democracy is bad now?
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2024, 07:27:12 AMI see the SDLP are running in all 18 areas. Eastwood is a joke.
SF running in 14.
He's a p***k. Any chance he'll he'll booted out of Foyle
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
Another p***k!
Am I the only one who thinks this will be alot closer than what people think?
I'm just thinking of 2019 and the echo chamber on Twitter. There was speculation it could be no overall majority like 2017 (was 9/4 with the bookies) and the Tories ended up with a majority of 80!
I've no doubt that the gap will close the closer it gets to the GE. Those usual Tory voters will get itchy feet and the media will find some mud to sling at Labour.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 31, 2024, 08:42:17 AMAm I the only one who thinks this will be alot closer than what people think?
I'm just thinking of 2019 and the echo chamber on Twitter. There was speculation it could be no overall majority like 2017 (was 9/4 with the bookies) and the Tories ended up with a majority of 80!
I think there's going to be a complete obliteration, and we are unlikely the see the Tories contend for power again until the 2040s.
The parties themselves know it. The MSM know it. Twitter is now just polarised opinions instead of one way opinions, and isn't relevant.
It's a formality.
The key outcome in our futures isn't the result of this election, but when (if) Labour begin to implement socialist policies. I'd prefer they want hard and quick at it, but a slow bleed over the next decade is the more prudent approach in a country that innately is not socialist.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 31, 2024, 09:44:28 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 31, 2024, 08:42:17 AMAm I the only one who thinks this will be alot closer than what people think?
I'm just thinking of 2019 and the echo chamber on Twitter. There was speculation it could be no overall majority like 2017 (was 9/4 with the bookies) and the Tories ended up with a majority of 80!
I think there's going to be a complete obliteration, and we are unlikely the see the Tories contend for power again until the 2040s.
The parties themselves know it. The MSM know it. Twitter is now just polarised opinions instead of one way opinions, and isn't relevant.
It's a formality.
The key outcome in our futures isn't the result of this election, but when (if) Labour begin to implement socialist policies. I'd prefer they want hard and quick at it, but a slow bleed over the next decade is the more prudent approach in a country that innately is not socialist.
If you are expecting any socialist policies from Starmer you are going to be waiting a while.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 31, 2024, 09:44:28 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 31, 2024, 08:42:17 AMAm I the only one who thinks this will be alot closer than what people think?
I'm just thinking of 2019 and the echo chamber on Twitter. There was speculation it could be no overall majority like 2017 (was 9/4 with the bookies) and the Tories ended up with a majority of 80!
I think there's going to be a complete obliteration, and we are unlikely the see the Tories contend for power again until the 2040s.
The parties themselves know it. The MSM know it. Twitter is now just polarised opinions instead of one way opinions, and isn't relevant.
It's a formality.
The key outcome in our futures isn't the result of this election, but when (if) Labour begin to implement socialist policies. I'd prefer they want hard and quick at it, but a slow bleed over the next decade is the more prudent approach in a country that innately is not socialist.
There isn't much money in the kitty and any plan to borrow excessively will run into the same problems that Truss faced. Rapid change is probably impossible.
Quote from: NAG1 on May 31, 2024, 10:05:35 AMIf you are expecting any socialist policies from Starmer you are going to be waiting a while.
Adult policies would be good for a start.
The gap will narrow as we near polling day, it can't widen. The broadsheets are already wheeling out mildly anti Labour guff daily, its drip feed messaging. I'd love to see the Tories obliterated and with Reform coming from the opposite end it could happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we ultimately end up in hung parliament territory tbh.
Quote from: bennydorano on May 31, 2024, 10:28:35 AMThe gap will narrow as we near polling day, it can't widen. The broadsheets are already wheeling out mildly anti Labour guff daily, its drip feed messaging. I'd love to see the Tories obliterated and with Reform coming from the opposite end it could happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we ultimately end up in hung parliament territory tbh.
Given that Labour seem likely to win some Scottish seats then I do not anticipate a hung parliament, although the Labour majority may be reduced.
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
It's usually from Corbyn supporters, but as you say not grounded in any reality
The Tories have moved so far to the right to combat UKIP and now Reform growthbin popularity, Labour are following them in the drift right instead of sticking to what should be their principles
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
https://www.ft.com/content/f7394525-76a1-462c-a6e5-fe8273df4f7f
he is a tory
Nothing to do with his stance on Palestine - which I am not a fan of.
The IMA isnt the worst piece of legislation/policy. Starmer has highlighted immigration as a matter of serious concern also.
It may not be the most insightful piece of political analysis to be honest but it's how I feel about him.
Quote from: Brendan on May 31, 2024, 12:23:05 PMThe Tories have moved so far to the right to combat UKIP and now Reform growthbin popularity, Labour are following them in the drift right instead of sticking to what should be their principles
In what way? Economics? Social Policy?
The only I can think off is the 2 child cap. Something I think Labour will address but not straight away and possibly not quick enough.
I'm fairly confident that Labour just want to get over the line and get into office and then get on with fixing things. I'm braced for the frustration at how long it will take to fix everything. But better that, than another campaign where the right wing press just lampoon Labour and we end up with a Tory-led government that not only don't fix things but are happy to let them deteriorate???
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 12:47:43 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
https://www.ft.com/content/f7394525-76a1-462c-a6e5-fe8273df4f7f
he is a tory
Nothing to do with his stance on Palestine - which I am not a fan of.
The IMA isnt the worst piece of legislation/policy. Starmer has highlighted immigration as a matter of serious concern also.
It may not be the most insightful piece of political analysis to be honest but it's how I feel about him.
Tony Benn used to praise Thathcher for being a sign post rather than a weather vane ie she stuck to her guns. He wasn't praising the policy. Benn wasn't a Tory. Most have the wit to work that out.
Starmer once says Thatcher has the mission and the plan to get things done ie the same argument that Benn made hundreds of times over 20+ years and that makes him a Tory. That would fly in the face of all logic.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:58:34 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 12:47:43 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
https://www.ft.com/content/f7394525-76a1-462c-a6e5-fe8273df4f7f
he is a tory
Nothing to do with his stance on Palestine - which I am not a fan of.
The IMA isnt the worst piece of legislation/policy. Starmer has highlighted immigration as a matter of serious concern also.
It may not be the most insightful piece of political analysis to be honest but it's how I feel about him.
Tony Benn used to praise Thathcher for being a sign post rather than a weather vane ie she stuck to her guns. He wasn't praising the policy. Benn wasn't a Tory. Most have the wit to work that out.
Starmer once says Thatcher has the mission and the plan to get things done ie the same argument that Benn made hundreds of times over 20+ years and that makes him a Tory. That would fly in the face of all logic.
I appreciate the lesson and the much more in depth analysis. Suffice to say I just dont like him. I dont like how he back stabbed Corbyn. I dont like how he seems to be eroding the left wing nature of the LP and how he looks to be pandering to Tory voters in order to win.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all that
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
This post is incredibly illustrative of the shift in the overton window that's occurred in British politics.
IMO Starmer is further to the right on most issues than Blair, which would put him very close to 'normal' Tory territory
This breed of Tories are so far to the right that they make every previous Tory leader (apart from Thatcher) looks like a bleeding heart leftie
Quote from: Brendan on May 31, 2024, 12:23:05 PMThe Tories have moved so far to the right to combat UKIP and now Reform growthbin popularity, Labour are following them in the drift right instead of sticking to what should be their principles
This "growth" in Reform didn't really cut through in the local elections where they only got two Councillors elected in the whole of England and Wales.
The amount of screen time Farage and Tice get isn't representative of who people are actually voting for.
Their share of the vote was barely at double digits.
JC, this is first election we have to vote in the Strangford constituency. The nationalist choice isn't great compared to our previous constituency of South Down. I feel a bit dis-enfranchised! :o
Quote from: No1 on May 31, 2024, 01:59:36 PMJC, this is first election we have to vote in the Strangford constituency. The nationalist choice isn't great compared to our previous constituency of South Down. I feel a bit dis-enfranchised! :o
Welcome to the world of tactical voting ;D
Anyone but Jim Shannon, but I'd still struggle to put an X beside Mike Nesbitt and It seems that with the new boundary changes may cause the DUP issues if Alliance get those extra votes!
Haven't a clue about that particular Alliance candidate..
Never heard of Will Polland, the SDLP'er, but he's all the looks of a lad from a well heeled area like Kilclief ;D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOiCLWkWgAA7Qss?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2024, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
This post is incredibly illustrative of the shift in the overton window that's occurred in British politics.
IMO Starmer is further to the right on most issues than Blair, which would put him very close to 'normal' Tory territory
This breed of Tories are so far to the right that they make every previous Tory leader (apart from Thatcher) looks like a bleeding heart leftie
Which issues is Starmer to the right of Blair on?
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 01:23:18 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:58:34 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 12:47:43 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
https://www.ft.com/content/f7394525-76a1-462c-a6e5-fe8273df4f7f
he is a tory
Nothing to do with his stance on Palestine - which I am not a fan of.
The IMA isnt the worst piece of legislation/policy. Starmer has highlighted immigration as a matter of serious concern also.
It may not be the most insightful piece of political analysis to be honest but it's how I feel about him.
Tony Benn used to praise Thathcher for being a sign post rather than a weather vane ie she stuck to her guns. He wasn't praising the policy. Benn wasn't a Tory. Most have the wit to work that out.
Starmer once says Thatcher has the mission and the plan to get things done ie the same argument that Benn made hundreds of times over 20+ years and that makes him a Tory. That would fly in the face of all logic.
I appreciate the lesson and the much more in depth analysis. Suffice to say I just dont like him. I dont like how he back stabbed Corbyn. I dont like how he seems to be eroding the left wing nature of the LP and how he looks to be pandering to Tory voters in order to win.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all that
IMHO it's not actually suffice to say "I just don't like him".
I really not sure he back stabbed Corbyn. Corbyn lost the whip due to his own intransigence. The path back was straightforward and easy to do. Yet he didn't take it. All Starmer did was stick to his guns. Imagine if Starmer had watered down the Equality Commission findings or recommendations. He would have been toast long ago.
I do think Starmer is getting the NEC to grant winnable seats to certain individuals. These include people who are left wing but not on the left of the party. Every leader, including Corbyn, has done the same. Selections are also being granted to the favoured children of some unions. The latter is hardly a purge of the left and again is just something Labour as a party has always done. Starmer doesn't want his government to be shackled by the ERG of the left. He is probably correct in that.
And as for ex-Tory voters. Labour has never and can never win an election without the votes of people who previously voted Tory. You have never had and will never have a Labour government that doesn't successfully appeal to these numbers.
There is a lot of harm to be undone. Labour need a huge majority and at least 2 terms. That means way more ex-Tory voters that is required for a hung parliament or a narrow majority. The votes can't be magicked up. They have to be won.
The alternative to this is a Tory government and an Overton Window that drifts off into laalaa land.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMThat really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
I know I posted some of this before, but Starmer is very much in step with tory style politics on a lot of issues.
He rowed back on his pledge to nationalise water, energy and rail.
He rowed back on a pledge to abolish tuition fees.
In November 2022, he announced his intention to end 'immigration dependency', a stance so right wing that he won the priase of Nigel Farage (he also complained that there are too many foreigners working in the NHS).
He pledged that he would "work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people". Since taking the party leadership, he banned Labour frontbenchers from attending picket lines and even sacked one of his MPs for standing alongside striking RMT workers.
He has efectively led a purge of as many lef wing/socialists as possible form his party.
He backs the torys on a cap on child benefits and on bedroom taxes.
He has a looong history of antagonism towards the trans community, and backs the tories on a range of trans exclusionary policies.
When the tories announced their intention to cut their spening on tackling climate change, Saarmer was quick out of the blocks to criticise them, and pledged Labour would spend £28bn on it. Within a few months, he slashed that figure to £4.7bn.
Labour pledged to support "whatever measures the government takes" on covid and later praised the Tory response to the crisis as "an amazing piece of work".
He has refused to support calls to rejoin the EU single market or customs union.
He has refused to overturn the two child benefit rule.
Nobody is suggesting that he is identical to the tories, nor worse than them, but the fact is that on a lot of issues you could barely slide a cigarette paper between them. He certainly is not the personification of the sort of centre-left, union supporting Labour party that most people traditionally would have had.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 02:40:04 PMQuote from: Franko on May 31, 2024, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
This post is incredibly illustrative of the shift in the overton window that's occurred in British politics.
IMO Starmer is further to the right on most issues than Blair, which would put him very close to 'normal' Tory territory
This breed of Tories are so far to the right that they make every previous Tory leader (apart from Thatcher) looks like a bleeding heart leftie
Which issues is Starmer to the right of Blair on?
Immigration
Benefits
EU (Won't countenance rejoin)
Trade Union links
Middle East issues
to name a few
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 01:23:18 PMI appreciate the lesson and the much more in depth analysis. Suffice to say I just dont like him. I dont like how he back stabbed Corbyn. I dont like how he seems to be eroding the left wing nature of the LP and how he looks to be pandering to Tory voters in order to win.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all that
It is the business of politicians to represent the electorate, not complain about them. While the recent Tory governments are unpleasant, there are also middle-of-the-road policies that traditional Tory voters might support that are not unacceptable.
The idea that should impose policies on the majority because you are right and they are wrong recalls the recent attitude of the Brexiteers.
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2024, 03:25:34 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 02:40:04 PMQuote from: Franko on May 31, 2024, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
This post is incredibly illustrative of the shift in the overton window that's occurred in British politics.
IMO Starmer is further to the right on most issues than Blair, which would put him very close to 'normal' Tory territory
This breed of Tories are so far to the right that they make every previous Tory leader (apart from Thatcher) looks like a bleeding heart leftie
Which issues is Starmer to the right of Blair on?
Immigration
Benefits
EU (Won't countenance rejoin)
Trade Union links
Middle East issues
to name a few
In what way is Starmer to the right of Blair on immigration, Trade Union Links and the Middle East?
As for the EU is his policy to the right of Blair? Really? Even the Liberal Democrats are not countenancing rejoin now. Not sure who is? The last thing the UK needs right now is a rejoin debate. I am at the front of the queue in wanting back in but it would be hard for to take seriously any politician who thought now was the time for that debate.
The other issue was benefits. To be to the right of Blair essentially you are contending that in the economic circumstances Blair inherited (and then under Brown, cultivated) Starmer would have made decisions to the right of Blair or that in the circumstances that Starmer will inherit, Blair would make decisions to the left of Starmer. What would those decisions be? What polices are you talking about?
I know you have listed 5 "things" but have you made any "points"?
Quote from: Snapchap on May 31, 2024, 03:24:13 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMThat really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
I know I posted some of this before, but Starmer is very much in step with tory style politics on a lot of issues.
He rowed back on his pledge to nationalise water, energy and rail.
He rowed back on a pledge to abolish tuition fees.
In November 2022, he announced his intention to end 'immigration dependency', a stance so right wing that he won the priase of Nigel Farage (he also complained that there are too many foreigners working in the NHS).
He pledged that he would "work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people". Since taking the party leadership, he banned Labour frontbenchers from attending picket lines and even sacked one of his MPs for standing alongside striking RMT workers.
He has efectively led a purge of as many lef wing/socialists as possible form his party.
He backs the torys on a cap on child benefits and on bedroom taxes.
He has a looong history of antagonism towards the trans community, and backs the tories on a range of trans exclusionary policies.
When the tories announced their intention to cut their spening on tackling climate change, Saarmer was quick out of the blocks to criticise them, and pledged Labour would spend £28bn on it. Within a few months, he slashed that figure to £4.7bn.
Labour pledged to support "whatever measures the government takes" on covid and later praised the Tory response to the crisis as "an amazing piece of work".
He has refused to support calls to rejoin the EU single market or customs union.
He has refused to overturn the two child benefit rule.
Nobody is suggesting that he is identical to the tories, nor worse than them, but the fact is that on a lot of issues you could barely slide a cigarette paper between them. He certainly is not the personification of the sort of centre-left, union supporting Labour party that most people traditionally would have had.
Is your argument that the economic circumstances are there to a) buy back to those utilities? b) they should be bought back whether they are affordable or not or c) there should be enforced confiscation?
I assume you are not arguing that the economy has improved or stayed the same. What is your view on the policy of taking the rail franchises back for free as they expire? Maybe that's a policy you agree with?
Are you against GBE perse or it is the full nationalisation of the energy industry you want? Have you a costing and funding proposal for that? I don't think Starmer ever promised to nationalise that whole industry. I could be wrong? Surely someone would've accused him of talking bollix at the time if they thought that was what he meant?
Immigration dependency is a bad thing. Immigration is not. His stance on immigration is very far from the Tories.
The £28bn pledge has been cut. But not to £4.7bn. GBE alone is over £8bn.
Is it appropriate for font benchers to be on picket lines alongside people you have to negotiate with if you get into to power? The unions seemed pretty happy last week with Starmer. What are they getting wrong?
What is the long history antagonism on trans? I know the Tories lambaste him for being pro Trans. Don't know the wider story you refer to. Perhaps you have a long litany of evidence?
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2024, 01:33:50 PMQuote from: Brendan on May 31, 2024, 12:23:05 PMThe Tories have moved so far to the right to combat UKIP and now Reform growthbin popularity, Labour are following them in the drift right instead of sticking to what should be their principles
This "growth" in Reform didn't really cut through in the local elections where they only got two Councillors elected in the whole of England and Wales.
The amount of screen time Farage and Tice get isn't representative of who people are actually voting for.
Their share of the vote was barely at double digits.
Like Jim Allister.
f**king Farage. So tired of him.
Quote from: gallsman on June 03, 2024, 06:03:55 PMf**king Farage. So tired of him.
https://x.com/DUPleader/status/1797662088627994889
Quote from: dec on June 03, 2024, 06:51:40 PMQuote from: gallsman on June 03, 2024, 06:03:55 PMf**king Farage. So tired of him.
https://x.com/DUPleader/status/1797662088627994889
;D he fairly changed his tune! A ballbag.
Ball bag is too kind. A c**t at best. Doubt he even believes anything he even says. Making loads of money peddling his hate.
This Richard Tice lad is such a f**king cuck.
His girlfriend Oakenshit is even worse. Odious pair
Quote from: red hander on June 05, 2024, 12:06:01 PMHis girlfriend Oakenshit is even worse. Odious pair
+2
Just watching the bbcni news tonight about the East Belfast naoiscoil moving to Orangefield and becoming a Bunscoil. 40 kids for P1 and 200+ expressions of interest from parents. Astonishing symbolism of an Irish school being established in East Belfast on a site that is literally named after the Orange Field. The demographic tidal wave sweeping the North is unstoppable. Next month it is possible that of Belfast's 4 MP's, none will be Unionist. The GAA is also flourishing in East Belfast. Unbelievable for those of us who grew up during darker times. In last years local elections only 28% of people in Belfast voted for Unionist candidates. Nationalist votes outnumbered Unionists accross the 6 counties and this trend will be even more marked this year. Now that Unionism/Protestantism is a confirmed minority the continued dwindling of numbers will actually speed up at an astonishing pace. The end is nigh! Unionism is built on Supremacy, without that they have nothing.
Sweet reading that 🤝🤓
Quote from: Feckitt on June 05, 2024, 08:48:52 PMJust watching the bbcni news tonight about the East Belfast naoiscoil moving to Orangefield and becoming a Bunscoil. 40 kids for P1 and 200+ expressions of interest from parents. Astonishing symbolism of an Irish school being established in East Belfast on a site that is literally named after the Orange Field. The demographic tidal wave sweeping the North is unstoppable. Next month it is possible that of Belfast's 4 MP's, none will be Unionist. The GAA is also flourishing in East Belfast. Unbelievable for those of us who grew up during darker times. In last years local elections only 28% of people in Belfast voted for Unionist candidates. Nationalist votes outnumbered Unionists accross the 6 counties and this trend will be even more marked this year. Now that Unionism/Protestantism is a confirmed minority the continued dwindling of numbers will actually speed up at an astonishing pace. The end is nigh! Unionism is built on Supremacy, without that they have nothing.
Great post. Very true.
Even giving out about Pat Cullen standing as a candidate (and a quality one at that) in FST.
Them days of dictating to nationalists who's a suitable candidate etc. are long over.
All about demographics now and it's moving faster than anyone thinks.
Unionist supremacy is indeed over and they're still coming to terms with it, so be gentle with them, it is a culture shock.
The one niggling issue is that the PSNI very much have a unionist mindset and that still needs to be addressed.
Always knew riding would be the way out of this.
Make love not war - what genius said this?
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 06, 2024, 09:06:02 AMAlways knew riding would be the way out of this.
Make love not war - what genius said this?
Now I realise what the phrase Croppy lie down really referred to
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 06, 2024, 09:06:02 AMAlways knew riding would be the way out of this.
Make love not war - what genius said this?
;D ;D. From Wiki
"Several people claimed to be the inventor of the phrase, including Gershon Legman,[4][5] Rod McKuen,[6] radical activists Penelope and Franklin Rosemont and Tor Faegre,[7][8] and Diane Newell Meyer, a senior at the University of Oregon in 1965,[8] but the earliest uses in print appear to have been in anti-war protests in Berkeley, California earlier in 1965 than the April and May uses cited by Penelope Rosemont and Diane Newell Meyer. Articles mentioning signs and bumper stickers with the phrase were reported in the Daily Californian in February[9] and the Oakland Tribune in March.[10] Barbara Smoker claimed to have financed the manufacture of the first "Make Love, Not War" badges.[11] This quote is also attributed to Herbert Marcuse, a German philosopher who emigrated to the United States in the thirties and was an outspoken war critic (cit. quote.org)."
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 06, 2024, 09:06:02 AMAlways knew riding would be the way out of this.
Make love not war - what genius said this?
;D
Quote from: HiMucker on June 06, 2024, 09:36:52 AMQuote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 06, 2024, 09:06:02 AMAlways knew riding would be the way out of this.
Make love not war - what genius said this?
;D ;D. From Wiki
"Several people claimed to be the inventor of the phrase, including Gershon Legman,[4][5] Rod McKuen,[6] radical activists Penelope and Franklin Rosemont and Tor Faegre,[7][8] and Diane Newell Meyer, a senior at the University of Oregon in 1965,[8] but the earliest uses in print appear to have been in anti-war protests in Berkeley, California earlier in 1965 than the April and May uses cited by Penelope Rosemont and Diane Newell Meyer. Articles mentioning signs and bumper stickers with the phrase were reported in the Daily Californian in February[9] and the Oakland Tribune in March.[10] Barbara Smoker claimed to have financed the manufacture of the first "Make Love, Not War" badges.[11] This quote is also attributed to Herbert Marcuse, a German philosopher who emigrated to the United States in the thirties and was an outspoken war critic (cit. quote.org)."
Thanks Mucker I piqued your interest it would appear 🤓
Someone stick an oul Wiki edit that big jibbajabba off tinternet rekindled the phrases' popularity (9 months before Ireland became united)
Cheers
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 03, 2024, 09:19:33 PMBall bag is too kind. A c**t at best. Doubt he even believes anything he even says. Making loads of money peddling his hate.
Oh, he believes it, all right. Sure, only a fool wouldn't.
Rishi Sunak seems to have made a major blunder nipping out early from the D-Day commeration to do a TV interview.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 07, 2024, 09:36:56 AMRishi Sunak seems to have made a major blunder nipping out early from the D-Day commeration to do a TV interview.
Don't think it would matter what he does at the minute, he just goes from one disaster to the next.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 07, 2024, 09:42:09 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 07, 2024, 09:36:56 AMRishi Sunak seems to have made a major blunder nipping out early from the D-Day commeration to do a TV interview.
Don't think it would matter what he does at the minute, he just goes from one disaster to the next.
He'll find it tough to get a gig in politics after this, not that a multimillionaire will be too concerned about
Peter donaghy has his predictions on twitter. Some look right others I'm not sure but it's interesting to look at all the stats. It's almost like a free hit for nationalists this time. I can't see them losing any seats. A couple of long shots too although highly unlikely but you never know. The DUP could lose a couple to alliance and 1 to UUP. Bring it on
I wonder how good a chance has Robin Swann in south Antrim?
He seems level headed and comes across well as the ex-Health Minister/Covid etc.
Alliance, SF and SDLP could vote tacticalky in this one to boot the DUP out.
Quote from: marty34 on June 07, 2024, 10:27:06 AMI wonder how good a chance has Robin Swann in south Antrim?
He seems level headed and comes across well as the ex-Health Minister/Covid etc.
Alliance, SF and SDLP could vote tacticalky in this one to boot the DUP out.
Think this is one the DUP could lose for sure, Swann has a good profile and gets the farming vote out too.
I can imagine all AP voters will throw behind him as well to remove the DUP.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 07, 2024, 10:29:26 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 07, 2024, 10:27:06 AMI wonder how good a chance has Robin Swann in south Antrim?
He seems level headed and comes across well as the ex-Health Minister/Covid etc.
Alliance, SF and SDLP could vote tacticalky in this one to boot the DUP out.
Think this is one the DUP could lose for sure, Swann has a good profile and gets the farming vote out too.
I can imagine all AP voters will throw behind him as well to remove the DUP.
Who's Swann up against?
Paul Girvan DUP
He'd be surely more popular than that weasel?
Do the polls have it close?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2024, 11:05:06 AMHe'd be surely more popular than that weasel?
Do the polls have it close?
Very tight.
Quite a few seats this time will be close.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 07, 2024, 11:08:55 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2024, 11:05:06 AMHe'd be surely more popular than that weasel?
Do the polls have it close?
Very tight.
Quite a few seats this time will be close.
SF won't be a million miles away either in SA which may stop nationalists from tactically voting for swann otherwise he would be clear favourite
Would it be wiser from SF to have one less DUP seat?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2024, 11:13:00 AMWould it be wiser from SF to have one less DUP seat?
Think it makes so little difference either way.
I'm looking at the lesser of two evils ;)
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 07, 2024, 11:11:05 AMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 07, 2024, 11:08:55 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2024, 11:05:06 AMHe'd be surely more popular than that weasel?
Do the polls have it close?
Very tight.
Quite a few seats this time will be close.
SF won't be a million miles away either in SA which may stop nationalists from tactically voting for swann otherwise he would be clear favourite
Not sure about that. I think it's about Swann and the DUP.
Issue is that you can't really judge a party's vote in these type of elections as some parties aren't standing in certain areas and others are voting tactically etc.
Will that not always be the case though?
Rishi has touched a nerve heading home early from the D-Day commemoration.
It looks like he has completely ruined himself. The daily mail etc have even turned against him. Huge political own goal. The guy is an imbecile.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 07, 2024, 04:32:44 PMWill that not always be the case though?
Got to be moreseo in a ftp election though surely? Like a sensible person who might vote sdlp/sf usually in east belfast for talk sake might vote alliance as they have a realistic chance of being elected. If there were multiple candidates being elected they'd give a shinner first preference and maybe alliance second.
Yeah you are probably right
South Antrim is a dark horse constituency for SF. They made huge strides in this area in last years historic council elections. If the DUP and UUP are neck and neck and the TUV get a few votes then SF could be very close indeed.
Quote from: Feckitt on June 07, 2024, 05:19:45 PMSouth Antrim is a dark horse constituency for SF. They made huge strides in this area in last years historic council elections. If the DUP and UUP are neck and neck and the TUV get a few votes then SF could be very close indeed.
I think the reason the UUP will be in the running will be because of tactical voting by Alliance, SF and the SDLP.
Stormont elections are different.
That First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2024, 07:28:17 PMThat First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Needs Reform.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 07, 2024, 11:12:03 PMQuote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2024, 07:28:17 PMThat First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Needs Reform.
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas
Quote from: burdizzo on June 07, 2024, 11:12:03 PMQuote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2024, 07:28:17 PMThat First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Needs Reform.
Will they get many seats
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 07, 2024, 11:26:43 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 07, 2024, 11:12:03 PMQuote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2024, 07:28:17 PMThat First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Needs Reform.
Will they get many seats
Probably not much more than a handful.
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 07, 2024, 11:18:42 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 07, 2024, 11:12:03 PMQuote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2024, 07:28:17 PMThat First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Needs Reform.
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas
There was a referendum on the issue in the UK in 2011, one of the reasons there was a the Liberal/Tory coalition government. Tories opposed it.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 06, 2024, 10:28:31 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on June 03, 2024, 09:19:33 PMBall bag is too kind. A c**t at best. Doubt he even believes anything he even says. Making loads of money peddling his hate.
Oh, he believes it, all right. Sure, only a fool wouldn't.
Farage is a fascinating character. When I watch him in debates he just seems to abuse the questioner or the opponent. I cannot get a bead on his policy, line of thought of factual underpinning.
Would Burdizzo or any other poster be able to point to somewhere where Farage has set this out? Did he have a manifesto for the last election?
I would be worried that it's all fluff and he is just making money out of vulnerable supporters by abusing other vulnerable people.
Happy to be put right by quality evidence.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 08, 2024, 10:16:49 AMQuote from: burdizzo on June 06, 2024, 10:28:31 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on June 03, 2024, 09:19:33 PMBall bag is too kind. A c**t at best. Doubt he even believes anything he even says. Making loads of money peddling his hate.
Oh, he believes it, all right. Sure, only a fool wouldn't.
Farage is a fascinating character. When I watch him in debates he just seems to abuse the questioner or the opponent. I cannot get a bead on his policy, line of thought of factual underpinning.
Would Burdizzo or any other poster be able to point to somewhere where Farage has set this out? Did he have a manifesto for the last election?
I would be worried that it's all fluff and he is just making money out of vulnerable supporters by abusing other vulnerable people.
Happy to be put right by quality evidence.
It's no surprise he's a Trump acolyte.
Even for Boris this is spectacularly twattish. A complete and utter buffoon.
https://x.com/BorisJohnson/status/1799147254697304307
Talking of elections
https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2024/2024/0608/1453745-reaction/
Quote from: smelmoth on June 08, 2024, 10:16:49 AMQuote from: burdizzo on June 06, 2024, 10:28:31 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on June 03, 2024, 09:19:33 PMBall bag is too kind. A c**t at best. Doubt he even believes anything he even says. Making loads of money peddling his hate.
Oh, he believes it, all right. Sure, only a fool wouldn't.
Farage is a fascinating character. When I watch him in debates he just seems to abuse the questioner or the opponent. I cannot get a bead on his policy, line of thought of factual underpinning.
Would Burdizzo or any other poster be able to point to somewhere where Farage has set this out? Did he have a manifesto for the last election?
I would be worried that it's all fluff and he is just making money out of vulnerable supporters by abusing other vulnerable people.
Happy to be put right by quality evidence.
burdizzo is clearly taking his time to wade through the mountains of detailed policy documents and peer reviewed analysis that Team Farage have produced over the years before responding.
;D
Did ye hear that veteran English Labour chap's comnent about Farage?
Why is Farage celebrating D Day? His side lost!
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2024, 06:45:05 PM;D
Did ye gear that veteran English Labour chap's comnent about Farage?
Why is Farage celebrating D Day? His side lost!
Very good!
I see Farage, whose party just a week or so ago agreed an alliance with the TUV, has endorsed Sammy Wilson and Ian Og, who Jim Allister will be standing against. Jim is disappointed. Great to see him being shit on from a height
Also on Farage it's a clear illustration to whatever is left of the Tory party in 4 weeks time not to go near Farage. It was correctly said that Johnson was only interested in himself. Johnson is an amateur relative to Farage.
Farage is campaigning to become leader of the opposition. Don't think he has a chanve in that but, incredibly he has continuously said over the last 3 days that if a politician says they are sorry then that should be the end of any matter. That will work well when trying to hold a government to account.
I wouldn't undersell Johnson tbh. Johnson became the prime minister of the UK. You think about that and it's madness. He conned lots of people here there and everywhere and he is probably currently making a fortune on the private speaking circuit and will continue to do so for most of his life.
They're very comparable but I don't think Farage is as capable as Johnson. I always do wonder who is backing him mind you. He gets a massively disproportionate amount of airtime.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 10, 2024, 05:07:21 PMI see Farage, whose party just a week or so ago agreed an alliance with the TUV, has endorsed Sammy Wilson and Ian Og, who Jim Allister will be standing against. Jim is disappointed. Great to see him being shit on from a height
That's crazy. Jim has been double-crossed.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 10, 2024, 05:07:21 PMI see Farage, whose party just a week or so ago agreed an alliance with the TUV, has endorsed Sammy Wilson and Ian Og, who Jim Allister will be standing against. Jim is disappointed. Great to see him being shit on from a height
Would not take long to count the brain cells among that lot.
Maybe the D'dee KC might get an endorsement come the next local elections.
Quote from: marty34 on June 10, 2024, 05:59:13 PMQuote from: Dougal Maguire on June 10, 2024, 05:07:21 PMI see Farage, whose party just a week or so ago agreed an alliance with the TUV, has endorsed Sammy Wilson and Ian Og, who Jim Allister will be standing against. Jim is disappointed. Great to see him being shit on from a height
That's crazy. Jim has been double-crossed.
Wonder what shade of gammon red that's turned him ;D
I see the media doing a hatchet job on Pat Cullen.
Unionist politicians should be asked to condemn the murderous activities of the UDR/RUC and British Army.
Was UUP candidate who threw that up from 37 years ago. But you're right media did not ask Armstrong to condemn UDR collusion and murders, could have started with Patsy Kelly in nearby Trillick, which is subject to a current campaign to get the truth. Her recent leader Jeffrey and many of her colleagues and party members wore that disgraced uniform as well as RUC...
Quote from: marty34 on June 19, 2024, 05:41:37 PMI see the media doing a hatchet job on Pat Cullen.
Unionist politicians should be asked to condemn the murderous activities of the UDR/RUC and British Army.
Will only galvanise nationalist vote in constituency. Our people will take no lectures from these hypocrites. UUP ran an aparthied regime for 50 years, the conflict thereafter was no mere coincidence. DUP and TUV up to their necks in Ulster Resistance and other loyalist terror. King Canutes of unionism can't halt the incoming tide.
Could Patsy not just have answered the question truthfully?
Surely she could have condemned the Enniskillen bombers as poisonous rats and the scum of the earth and then demanded Diana do the same for the murderers of Patsy Kelly (or numerous others)?
Anyone with common decency would have done this. Regrettably that decency is absent in more places than you would care to imagine and various excuses are given to refuse to condemn.
Quote from: red hander on June 19, 2024, 09:09:30 PMQuote from: marty34 on June 19, 2024, 05:41:37 PMI see the media doing a hatchet job on Pat Cullen.
Unionist politicians should be asked to condemn the murderous activities of the UDR/RUC and British Army.
Will only galvanise nationalist vote in constituency. Our people will take no lectures from these hypocrites. UUP ran an aparthied regime for 50 years, the conflict thereafter was no mere coincidence. DUP and TUV up to their necks in Ulster Resistance and other loyalist terror. King Canutes of unionism can't halt the incoming tide.
100% correct.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 09:21:57 PMCould Patsy not just have answered the question truthfully?
Surely she could have condemned the Enniskillen bombers as poisonous rats and the scum of the earth and then demanded Diana do the same for the murderers of Patsy Kelly (or numerous others)?
Anyone with common decency would have done this. Regrettably that decency is absent in more places than you would care to imagine and various excuses are given to refuse to condemn.
Why should she condemn something that happened 37 years ago that was nothing to do with her I'm sure. You'd be there for a month back and forward with all happened here those 30 years or so. Armstrong was using those deaths back then to whip up her constituency. Totally cynical.
Quote from: Truthsayer on June 19, 2024, 10:22:27 PMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 09:21:57 PMCould Patsy not just have answered the question truthfully?
Surely she could have condemned the Enniskillen bombers as poisonous rats and the scum of the earth and then demanded Diana do the same for the murderers of Patsy Kelly (or numerous others)?
Anyone with common decency would have done this. Regrettably that decency is absent in more places than you would care to imagine and various excuses are given to refuse to condemn.
Why should she condemn something that happened 37 years ago that was nothing to do with her I'm sure. You'd be there for a month back and forward with all happened here those 30 years or so. Armstrong was using those deaths back then to whip up her constituency. Totally cynical.
Any significance to the 37 years or is there a cut off beyond which date we just ignore events?
There would be some craic if a politician or public figure said they would condemn an activity but wouldn't condemn a particular atrocity because it was beyond their cut off date. It's absolute horseshit and you know it.
But as I said above it it's incredible the excuses people will use to avoid using the decency they were born with.
Why are people being asked to condemn stuff they weren't involved in or in some cases no age when it happened. Horrible stuff was done by both sides. Obviously anyone would be disgusted at the killing of innocents no matter who they were or who killed them.
This attitude is doing nothing for the future of this place and why it'll never move on from the past.
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 19, 2024, 10:36:24 PMWhy are people being asked to condemn stuff they weren't involved in or in some cases no age when it happened. Horrible stuff was done by both sides. Obviously anyone would be disgusted at the killing of innocents no matter who they were or who killed them.
This attitude is doing nothing for the future of this place and why it'll never move on from the past.
The problem with that position is that it is abused. It's is used as a cover to gloss over things done by "your own side". To move on we need to call things for what they are.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 10:42:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on June 19, 2024, 10:36:24 PMWhy are people being asked to condemn stuff they weren't involved in or in some cases no age when it happened. Horrible stuff was done by both sides. Obviously anyone would be disgusted at the killing of innocents no matter who they were or who killed them.
This attitude is doing nothing for the future of this place and why it'll never move on from the past.
The problem with that position is that it is abused. It's is used as a cover to gloss over things done by "your own side". To move on we need to call things for what they are.
If every politician had to call out even a 10th of the bad things done by either side they'd get even less done than they do now!
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 19, 2024, 10:46:29 PMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 10:42:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on June 19, 2024, 10:36:24 PMWhy are people being asked to condemn stuff they weren't involved in or in some cases no age when it happened. Horrible stuff was done by both sides. Obviously anyone would be disgusted at the killing of innocents no matter who they were or who killed them.
This attitude is doing nothing for the future of this place and why it'll never move on from the past.
The problem with that position is that it is abused. It's is used as a cover to gloss over things done by "your own side". To move on we need to call things for what they are.
If every politician had to call out even a 10th of the bad things done by either side they'd get even less done than they do now!
Your right. There was was an awful power of good that Pat achieved in the time she shaved of the interview. 🙈
Quote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 10:29:58 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on June 19, 2024, 10:22:27 PMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 09:21:57 PMCould Patsy not just have answered the question truthfully?
Surely she could have condemned the Enniskillen bombers as poisonous rats and the scum of the earth and then demanded Diana do the same for the murderers of Patsy Kelly (or numerous others)?
Anyone with common decency would have done this. Regrettably that decency is absent in more places than you would care to imagine and various excuses are given to refuse to condemn.
Why should she condemn something that happened 37 years ago that was nothing to do with her I'm sure. You'd be there for a month back and forward with all happened here those 30 years or so. Armstrong was using those deaths back then to whip up her constituency. Totally cynical.
Any significance to the 37 years or is there a cut off beyond which date we just ignore events?
There would be some craic if a politician or public figure said they would condemn an activity but wouldn't condemn a particular atrocity because it was beyond their cut off date. It's absolute horseshit and you know it.
But as I said above it it's incredible the excuses people will use to avoid using the decency they were born with.
37 years ago was the Enniskillen bombing she was asked to condemn. What had it to do with Pat Cullen? So Pat says do you condemn... ? and yer woman replies and do you condemn? It's endless and using the trauma of decades ago cynically to try and win an election.. and you know it!
Quote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 10:29:58 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on June 19, 2024, 10:22:27 PMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 09:21:57 PMCould Patsy not just have answered the question truthfully?
Surely she could have condemned the Enniskillen bombers as poisonous rats and the scum of the earth and then demanded Diana do the same for the murderers of Patsy Kelly (or numerous others)?
Anyone with common decency would have done this. Regrettably that decency is absent in more places than you would care to imagine and various excuses are given to refuse to condemn.
Why should she condemn something that happened 37 years ago that was nothing to do with her I'm sure. You'd be there for a month back and forward with all happened here those 30 years or so. Armstrong was using those deaths back then to whip up her constituency. Totally cynical.
Any significance to the 37 years or is there a cut off beyond which date we just ignore events?
There would be some craic if a politician or public figure said they would condemn an activity but wouldn't condemn a particular atrocity because it was beyond their cut off date. It's absolute horseshit and you know it.
But as I said above it it's incredible the excuses people will use to avoid using the decency they were born with.
Funny I never hear FFG being asked to condemn stuff that happened decades ago?
Quote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 10:42:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on June 19, 2024, 10:36:24 PMWhy are people being asked to condemn stuff they weren't involved in or in some cases no age when it happened. Horrible stuff was done by both sides. Obviously anyone would be disgusted at the killing of innocents no matter who they were or who killed them.
This attitude is doing nothing for the future of this place and why it'll never move on from the past.
The problem with that position is that it is abused. It's is used as a cover to gloss over things done by "your own side". To move on we need to call things for what they are.
As opposed to the use of victims for political point scoring?
If you want to "call things for what they are", then maybe start by dropping the pretence that the UUPs antics have anything to do with the Enniskillen Bomb and everything to do with using and abusing the victims for he most cynical of purposes. And when you're doing so, bear in mind why Pat Cullen might be the candidate Unionism is so particularly determined to bring down.
Diana Armstrong would be better condemning her Da's role in us ending up where we are today.
These are marginal seats and the voters that she is looking to stoke up wouldn't be voting for SF anyways, Pat was very dignified and held her own while this one was pulling faces, She'll gain some votes with how she approached it.
As regards to apologies or showing remorse, that's down to those that carried that out, or those that organised it. But a simple "what happened that day was wrong and any loss of life is wrong" and moved on"
Pat will have known for sure that that would have been thrown up in her face and to use the death of the nurse as a means to get one-upmanship will backfire
Quote from: Truthsayer on June 19, 2024, 11:37:47 PMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 10:29:58 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on June 19, 2024, 10:22:27 PMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 09:21:57 PMCould Patsy not just have answered the question truthfully?
Surely she could have condemned the Enniskillen bombers as poisonous rats and the scum of the earth and then demanded Diana do the same for the murderers of Patsy Kelly (or numerous others)?
Anyone with common decency would have done this. Regrettably that decency is absent in more places than you would care to imagine and various excuses are given to refuse to condemn.
Why should she condemn something that happened 37 years ago that was nothing to do with her I'm sure. You'd be there for a month back and forward with all happened here those 30 years or so. Armstrong was using those deaths back then to whip up her constituency. Totally cynical.
Any significance to the 37 years or is there a cut off beyond which date we just ignore events?
There would be some craic if a politician or public figure said they would condemn an activity but wouldn't condemn a particular atrocity because it was beyond their cut off date. It's absolute horseshit and you know it.
But as I said above it it's incredible the excuses people will use to avoid using the decency they were born with.
37 years ago was the Enniskillen bombing she was asked to condemn. What had it to do with Pat Cullen? So Pat says do you condemn... ? and yer woman replies and do you condemn? It's endless and using the trauma of decades ago cynically to try and win an election.. and you know it!
Complete balls.
Nobody said Pat Cullen was involved. But republicans were and SF proclaim their republican credentials.
The reason SF politicians don't want to talk about atrocities is because it's awkward for them. The Enniskillen bomb didn't do Ireland, catholics or indeed Republicanism much good. It was roundly rejected by decent people. SF now reach well beyond their traditional base who would want nothing to do with the tramps that bombed Enniskillen or similar. Surely SF (and all) politicians should be open and vocal on their positions. Admittedly it will be easier for some than others. Pat should have been one of the ones who found the question easy to answer. And yes she should also have thrown the challenge back to her opponent.
Quote from: marty34 on June 20, 2024, 12:46:09 AMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 10:29:58 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on June 19, 2024, 10:22:27 PMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 09:21:57 PMCould Patsy not just have answered the question truthfully?
Surely she could have condemned the Enniskillen bombers as poisonous rats and the scum of the earth and then demanded Diana do the same for the murderers of Patsy Kelly (or numerous others)?
Anyone with common decency would have done this. Regrettably that decency is absent in more places than you would care to imagine and various excuses are given to refuse to condemn.
Why should she condemn something that happened 37 years ago that was nothing to do with her I'm sure. You'd be there for a month back and forward with all happened here those 30 years or so. Armstrong was using those deaths back then to whip up her constituency. Totally cynical.
Any significance to the 37 years or is there a cut off beyond which date we just ignore events?
There would be some craic if a politician or public figure said they would condemn an activity but wouldn't condemn a particular atrocity because it was beyond their cut off date. It's absolute horseshit and you know it.
But as I said above it it's incredible the excuses people will use to avoid using the decency they were born with.
Funny I never hear FFG being asked to condemn stuff that happened decades ago?
Well ask them. See how it goes. They will probably be ok with it.
Quote from: Snapchap on June 20, 2024, 01:08:19 AMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 10:42:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on June 19, 2024, 10:36:24 PMWhy are people being asked to condemn stuff they weren't involved in or in some cases no age when it happened. Horrible stuff was done by both sides. Obviously anyone would be disgusted at the killing of innocents no matter who they were or who killed them.
This attitude is doing nothing for the future of this place and why it'll never move on from the past.
The problem with that position is that it is abused. It's is used as a cover to gloss over things done by "your own side". To move on we need to call things for what they are.
As opposed to the use of victims for political point scoring?
If you want to "call things for what they are", then maybe start by dropping the pretence that the UUPs antics have anything to do with the Enniskillen Bomb and everything to do with using and abusing the victims for he most cynical of purposes. And when you're doing so, bear in mind why Pat Cullen might be the candidate Unionism is so particularly determined to bring down.
By all means hold both to account.
By all means call both actions out.
But failures to call out the wrongful actions of your own side (whichever side that may be) is not only cowardly but it does nothing to get this place sorted.
The act of asking the question in the first place, come from a background of inherent bias.
If you don't or won't call out one side for past atrocities it is completely unfair to call out the other.
By all means ask the question but ask the questions of both sides or not at all.
It was a stunt to gain attention and to try and to try and make her look bad. That was it.
I took a look at the Bel Tel website last night. The story didn't feature in its top 7 most read articles. I watched the UTV news at 10:45pm. The story wasn't covered in that bulletin. IMHO, I don't think it will cost Pat Cullen a vote.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 20, 2024, 03:49:44 PMThe act of asking the question in the first place, come from a background of inherent bias.
If you don't or won't call out one side for past atrocities it is completely unfair to call out the other.
By all means ask the question but ask the questions of both sides or not at all.
That's fairly helpful for those who want to gloss over the past but there is a major limitation to its helpfulness.
There is a growing body of people in NI who have no problem calling out both sides. What will the answer be when someone from the Green Party or Alliance asks the question?
The old stance of you shouldn't ask difficult questions because it would be difficult for me to answer them will only last so long and only fool so many.
I don't think the questions are difficult. She could have said something, but it's Political point scoring, if you are going back nearly 4 decades to get a rise you are clearly struggling
Really good questions could have been about
Infrastructure
Roads
Employment
Housing
Education
Child care
NHS
Cost of living
And so on
And how will you help that without being actually at Westminster?
Is there a time limit to when these atrocities can go back to? 40, 50, 75, 100?
Quote from: smelmoth on June 20, 2024, 03:47:44 PMQuote from: Snapchap on June 20, 2024, 01:08:19 AMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 10:42:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on June 19, 2024, 10:36:24 PMWhy are people being asked to condemn stuff they weren't involved in or in some cases no age when it happened. Horrible stuff was done by both sides. Obviously anyone would be disgusted at the killing of innocents no matter who they were or who killed them.
This attitude is doing nothing for the future of this place and why it'll never move on from the past.
The problem with that position is that it is abused. It's is used as a cover to gloss over things done by "your own side". To move on we need to call things for what they are.
As opposed to the use of victims for political point scoring?
If you want to "call things for what they are", then maybe start by dropping the pretence that the UUPs antics have anything to do with the Enniskillen Bomb and everything to do with using and abusing the victims for he most cynical of purposes. And when you're doing so, bear in mind why Pat Cullen might be the candidate Unionism is so particularly determined to bring down.
By all means hold both to account.
By all means call both actions out.
But failures to call out the wrongful actions of your own side (whichever side that may be) is not only cowardly but it does nothing to get this place sorted.
Hold both to account? So people who drag up victims names to use and abuse should be both called out, but also indulged? Nonsense.
The IRA apologised for Enniskillen. Anyone asking Pat Cullen (of all people!!!!) to comment on it at the height of an election campaign is doing so out of 100% cynical opportunism. They are USING victims pain for personal political gain. And then the likes of yourself comes along making excuses for them and backing up their calls for condemnation as if that's that they were really interested in. Thankfully most people don't get sucked in by that sort of guff quite as easily as you seem to have been.
Mark Carruthers is some operator.
Not a single vote I'd venture
Most people will see it for what it is - petty point scoring
In the same vein that EVERY interview with anyone expressing a supportive view of the Palestinian cause must begin with the obligatory condemnation of Hamas
IRA'ing as Brolly calls it
Should Simon Harris be asked to condemn Richard Mulcahy before every interview?
Had big Lurch going round in circles, unlike that lily livered dose Clarke on UTV.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2024, 07:58:51 PMI don't think the questions are difficult. She could have said something, but it's Political point scoring, if you are going back nearly 4 decades to get a rise you are clearly struggling
Really good questions could have been about
Infrastructure
Roads
Employment
Housing
Education
Child care
NHS
Cost of living
And so on
And how will you help that without being actually at Westminster?
Is there a time limit to when these atrocities can go back to? 40, 50, 75, 100?
By all means ask all those questions. The existence of those very good questions is neither a reason nor an excuse to ask other good questions.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:42:19 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2024, 07:58:51 PMI don't think the questions are difficult. She could have said something, but it's Political point scoring, if you are going back nearly 4 decades to get a rise you are clearly struggling
Really good questions could have been about
Infrastructure
Roads
Employment
Housing
Education
Child care
NHS
Cost of living
And so on
And how will you help that without being actually at Westminster?
Is there a time limit to when these atrocities can go back to? 40, 50, 75, 100?
By all means ask all those questions. The existence of those very good questions is neither a reason nor an excuse to ask other good questions.
But what are we gaining for asking questions on what happened that dreadful morning, which, I can remember very vividly at the time, give me one benefit that it will achieve?
It's not a good question though - it's a stunt.
Quote from: Snapchap on June 20, 2024, 11:09:32 PMQuote from: smelmoth on June 20, 2024, 03:47:44 PMQuote from: Snapchap on June 20, 2024, 01:08:19 AMQuote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2024, 10:42:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on June 19, 2024, 10:36:24 PMWhy are people being asked to condemn stuff they weren't involved in or in some cases no age when it happened. Horrible stuff was done by both sides. Obviously anyone would be disgusted at the killing of innocents no matter who they were or who killed them.
This attitude is doing nothing for the future of this place and why it'll never move on from the past.
The problem with that position is that it is abused. It's is used as a cover to gloss over things done by "your own side". To move on we need to call things for what they are.
As opposed to the use of victims for political point scoring?
If you want to "call things for what they are", then maybe start by dropping the pretence that the UUPs antics have anything to do with the Enniskillen Bomb and everything to do with using and abusing the victims for he most cynical of purposes. And when you're doing so, bear in mind why Pat Cullen might be the candidate Unionism is so particularly determined to bring down.
By all means hold both to account.
By all means call both actions out.
But failures to call out the wrongful actions of your own side (whichever side that may be) is not only cowardly but it does nothing to get this place sorted.
Hold both to account? So people who drag up victims names to use and abuse should be both called out, but also indulged? Nonsense.
The IRA apologised for Enniskillen. Anyone asking Pat Cullen (of all people!!!!) to comment on it at the height of an election campaign is doing so out of 100% cynical opportunism. They are USING victims pain for personal political gain. And then the likes of yourself comes along making excuses for them and backing up their calls for condemnation as if that's that they were really interested in. Thankfully most people don't get sucked in by that sort of guff quite as easily as you seem to have been.
I find the rationale that asking difficult questions about the past is abusing the victims both dubious and dangerous. It is of a piece with the government's legacy legislation. It plays on the idea of victim protection but it's really an attempt to cover up and deny the need to deal with the past. It's truly cynical and decent people see through it.
Do you see anyone arguing that the opposing side shouldn't be asked difficult questions because of its impacts on victims? Something to think about.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2024, 11:47:00 AMQuote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:42:19 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2024, 07:58:51 PMI don't think the questions are difficult. She could have said something, but it's Political point scoring, if you are going back nearly 4 decades to get a rise you are clearly struggling
Really good questions could have been about
Infrastructure
Roads
Employment
Housing
Education
Child care
NHS
Cost of living
And so on
And how will you help that without being actually at Westminster?
Is there a time limit to when these atrocities can go back to? 40, 50, 75, 100?
By all means ask all those questions. The existence of those very good questions is neither a reason nor an excuse to ask other good questions.
But what are we gaining for asking questions on what happened that dreadful morning, which, I can remember very vividly at the time, give me one benefit that it will achieve?
Good things that inter alia, politicians can do:
Recognise the horrors of the past.
Treat the atrocities of the past as atrocities irrespective of which side committed.
Empathising equally with all the victims of the past, irrespective of which side they are on.
Holding the wrongdoers to account irrespective of which side they were on.
Clearly showing that you are on the side of decency and accountability on these issue is a good thing for candidates to do. Many will fail. We should point out that failure.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 21, 2024, 11:47:52 AMIt's not a good question though - it's a stunt.
would that be the case if someone else asked the same question?
Would it be controversial to suggest that the conflict is still going on...in smelmoth's head?
Quote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:50:15 AMI find the rationale that asking difficult questions about the past is abusing the victims both dubious and dangerous. It is of a piece with the government's legacy legislation. It plays on the idea of victim protection but it's really an attempt to cover up and deny the need to deal with the past. It's truly cynical and decent people see through it.
Do you see anyone arguing that the opposing side shouldn't be asked difficult questions because of its impacts on victims? Something to think about.
OK so the UUP are not using the victims for electoral purposes, and to sugest otherwise is "cynical"? Gotcha.
So the UUP election candidate, who was trying to push the SF election candidate, mid way through an election campaign, to condemn only one specific bombing carried out (by remarkable coincidence) in the very constituency in which the candidates are running, is really a genuine attempt to "deal with the past" and has nothing to do with the forthcoming election? OK. I've a bridge to Scotland to for sale if you're interested?
For what it's worth, Diane Armstrong, the UUP candidate in question, has been in elected office since 2016. A quick google search for prior to this week throws up not one single uterance from her about the bombing she has taken a sudden interest in. But yeah, I'm sure her newfound concern for the victims is absolutely genuine.
On another note, it may have passed her by, but yesterday was the 30th Anniversary of the Loughinisland Massacre. I wonder was the new champion of victims rights out on the media demanding condemnation and answers from the DUP, given that it was the DUP which set up the Ulster Resistance Paramilitary group, whos weapons were used in the attack. Wait, what?? She didn't say a word??? Surely it can't be the case that those victims were the wrong religion, or worse, in the wrong electoral constituency, to be bothered about them? Perish the thought. After all, her tireless, almost week-long campaign for victims is absolutely genuine as you keep teling us.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:58:21 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2024, 11:47:00 AMQuote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:42:19 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2024, 07:58:51 PMI don't think the questions are difficult. She could have said something, but it's Political point scoring, if you are going back nearly 4 decades to get a rise you are clearly struggling
Really good questions could have been about
Infrastructure
Roads
Employment
Housing
Education
Child care
NHS
Cost of living
And so on
And how will you help that without being actually at Westminster?
Is there a time limit to when these atrocities can go back to? 40, 50, 75, 100?
By all means ask all those questions. The existence of those very good questions is neither a reason nor an excuse to ask other good questions.
But what are we gaining for asking questions on what happened that dreadful morning, which, I can remember very vividly at the time, give me one benefit that it will achieve?
Good things that inter alia, politicians can do:
Recognise the horrors of the past.
Treat the atrocities of the past as atrocities irrespective of which side committed.
Empathising equally with all the victims of the past, irrespective of which side they are on.
Holding the wrongdoers to account irrespective of which side they were on.
Clearly showing that you are on the side of decency and accountability on these issue is a good thing for candidates to do. Many will fail. We should point out that failure.
How far back are we going though? I think there was a an apology for all victims of the troubles when the ceasefire was announced by both sides?
Think you know that, but I think you'd still not be happy with a 30 page apology
oh wait
The IRA yesterday issued an unprecedented apology to the families of those it termed "non-combatants" whom it killed during its 30-year campaign of violence in Northern Ireland.
Okay Snapchat
Quote from: Snapchap on June 21, 2024, 01:16:43 PMOK so the UUP are not using the victims for electoral purposes, and to sugest otherwise is "cynical"? Gotcha.
I don't want to accuse you of being some sort of liar and clearly you have the right of reply but all of my posts are there to be read. When exactly did I defend the motivations of the UUP candidate or party?
Quote from: Snapchap on June 21, 2024, 01:16:43 PMSo the UUP election candidate, who was trying to push the SF election candidate, mid way through an election campaign, to condemn only one specific bombing carried out (by remarkable coincidence) in the very constituency in which the candidates are running, is really a genuine attempt to "deal with the past" and has nothing to do with the forthcoming election? OK. I've a bridge to Scotland to for sale if you're interested?
For what it's worth, Diane Armstrong, the UUP candidate in question, has been in elected office since 2016. A quick google search for prior to this week throws up not one single uterance from her about the bombing she has taken a sudden interest in. But yeah, I'm sure her newfound concern for the victims is absolutely genuine.
Again, I'm not defending Armstrong, simply saying Cullen should have answered the question, a refusal to answer the question and the reasons given for not answering the question are disingenuous.
The most frequently given reason to not answer a question about an atrocity has been out of respect of the victims. Firstly I would point out that more respect for the victims at the time might have been a good idea but too late for that now. But secondly it hard to imagine what would illustrate more clearly a disrespect for the victims that any sort of commemoration or glorification of the perpetrators or planners of an atrocity. If the republican or loyalist movements or those who defend the atrocities perpetrated by those in State uniforms are genuinely respectful of victims then no such commemoration or glorification would take place. But as the do, how genuine is this tactic of not answering questions out of respect for victims?
Quote from: Snapchap on June 21, 2024, 01:16:43 PMOn another note, it may have passed her by, but yesterday was the 30th Anniversary of the Loughinisland Massacre. I wonder was the new champion of victims rights out on the media demanding condemnation and answers from the DUP, given that it was the DUP which set up the Ulster Resistance Paramilitary group, whos weapons were used in the attack. Wait, what?? She didn't say a word??? Surely it can't be the case that those victims were the wrong religion, or worse, in the wrong electoral constituency, to be bothered about them? Perish the thought. After all, her tireless, almost week-long campaign for victims is absolutely genuine as you keep teling us.
Well as I said above. UUP can speak for itself. Republicanism can speak for itself. If it condemns one it must condemn all. If it seeks justice for one it must seek justice for all. The London government has shown it is not interested in justice for all. I am not allied to that view. People are entitled to justice and truth about all these incidents. We can't have truth unless we talk truthfully about these incidents. There is no integrity in calling for truth and justice about one set of incidents and covering up another set. And as we are all about supporting victims I'm sure we can all agree on that at least?
Anyone getting Sid Waddell flashbacks?
FFS the troubles are 30 years in the past or near as damn it. Any unionist raising this with anyone that never participated is bullshit what aboutery. How about pulling the log out of your own eye and address the ongoing existence of the UDA and UVF, terrorising their own communities or the ongoing sectarian antics of some of the OO/Flute Bands and their hangers on.
Tory betting scandal us some shit show
What a bunch of c***ts
And useless c***ts at that
I despise the Tories, every rotten one of them and what they have done over the last 14 years and what they done here long before that. But trying to screw over the bookies is actually something I could get on board with.
Quote from: pbat on June 23, 2024, 09:20:36 PMI despise the Tories, every rotten one of them and what they have done over the last 14 years and what they done here long before that. But trying to screw over the bookies is actually something I could get on board with.
Stupid pricks for even trying
Tech is too good at sniffing this nonsense out
Odious breed of people
Quote from: tiempo on June 23, 2024, 09:22:13 PMQuote from: pbat on June 23, 2024, 09:20:36 PMI despise the Tories, every rotten one of them and what they have done over the last 14 years and what they done here long before that. But trying to screw over the bookies is actually something I could get on board with.
Stupid pricks for even trying
Tech is too good at sniffing this nonsense out
Odious breed of people
They could have won a couple of thousand, which is feck all in the context of their jobs. Why on earth takes the risk. They are truly thick.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2024, 09:32:39 PMQuote from: tiempo on June 23, 2024, 09:22:13 PMQuote from: pbat on June 23, 2024, 09:20:36 PMI despise the Tories, every rotten one of them and what they have done over the last 14 years and what they done here long before that. But trying to screw over the bookies is actually something I could get on board with.
Stupid pricks for even trying
Tech is too good at sniffing this nonsense out
Odious breed of people
They could have won a couple of thousand, which is feck all in the context of their jobs. Why on earth takes the risk. They are truly thick.
No moral compass at all, just lining their pockets on the way out!
Sunak, Gove, the whole lot of them, during Covid giving their mates big Gov contracts for PPE even if they hadn't a clue how to get it and then to include these Billions wasted as a "record spend on the NHS".
Grifters.
Grifter is one thing. Flat out criminal is another...
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2024, 08:32:56 AMGrifter is one thing. Flat out criminal is another...
The only difference is the colour of the collar.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:56:20 PMI don't want to accuse you of being some sort of liar and clearly you have the right of reply but all of my posts are there to be read. When exactly did I defend the motivations of the UUP candidate or party?
You have repeatedly suggested that her "questions" are relevant and important. Even as far as to sugest thet it was an attempt top "deal with the past". "Do you condemn..." questions have nothing to do with "dealing with the past".
Quote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:56:20 PMAgain, I'm not defending Armstrong, simply saying Cullen should have answered the question, a refusal to answer the question and the reasons given for not answering the question are disingenuous.
No, the reasons for
asking the question was disingenuous. People (unionists, typically) have been throwing out the "do you condemn x" questions for decades. The rest of us can see through it, even if you cannot.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:56:20 PMThe most frequently given reason to not answer a question about an atrocity has been out of respect of the victims. Firstly I would point out that more respect for the victims at the time might have been a good idea but too late for that now.
So fire away with using and absuing them in the hunt for a few votes every election cycle?
Quote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:56:20 PMBut secondly it hard to imagine what would illustrate more clearly a disrespect for the victims that any sort of commemoration or glorification of the perpetrators or planners of an atrocity. If the republican or loyalist movements or those who defend the atrocities perpetrated by those in State uniforms are genuinely respectful of victims then no such commemoration or glorification would take place. But as the do, how genuine is this tactic of not answering questions out of respect for victims?
Kind of on to a separate debate there, but if you are suggesting that nobody should be allowed commemorate any organisation that ever carried out an atrocity, then I can only assume that you believe there isn't a single armed conflict/group anywhere in history that should be allowed to be commemorated?
Quote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:56:20 PMWell as I said above. UUP can speak for itself. Republicanism can speak for itself. If it condemns one it must condemn all. If it seeks justice for one it must seek justice for all.
Diana Armstrong, however, wasn't trying to condemn all. She was limiting her question to one specific event. When's the last time a unionist was asked to condemn the actions of the state? Those who indulge in the "do you condemn..." nonsense deserve to be called out, not indulged and defended. Their motivation has precisely NOTHING to do with "calling for truth and justice" and everything to do with stirring up division.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 21, 2024, 11:56:20 PMThe London government has shown it is not interested in justice for all. I am not allied to that view. People are entitled to justice and truth about all these incidents. We can't have truth unless we talk truthfully about these incidents. There is no integrity in calling for truth and justice about one set of incidents and covering up another set. And as we are all about supporting victims I'm sure we can all agree on that at least?
Indeed. Though again you're onto a totally differnt subject, becuase as I said above, asking someone two condemn x, y or z has absolutely nothing got to do with genuine attempts at "truth and justice". It's nothing more than Stephen Nolan-esque sectarian bear-baiting and ought not be legitimised as anything other than that.
Robin Livingstone (aka Squinter on twitter), who is the brother of Julie Livingstone, a 14 year old girl shot dea with a ruber bullet by a British Soldier in 1981, posted a couple of excellent tweets in realtion to this debate surrounding Pat Cullen:
-
"Pat Cullen – and others – shouldn't condemn a single thing people demand she condemn. I wouldn't condemn Bloody Sunday if someone had to the gall to demand it of me.
That exhausted tactic remains popular with a diminishing band of conflict addicts, but it's a busted flush."-
"If somebody asked me to say something in words they supplied then my reply would be two short words which they hadn't supplied."
Last year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
Quote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2024, 09:18:06 PMLast year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
The alliance vote is also considerably greener these days. There was a euro election in 99 were nationalists hit 45% hence why unionists keep saying the nationalist vote hasn't moved in 25 years they conveniently ignore the 15% drop in the unionist vote.
So after Tories apparently betting on the election date, a Labour candidate has bet on himself to lose?
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 25, 2024, 10:46:49 PMSo after Tories apparently betting on the election date, a Labour candidate has bet on himself to lose?
How does someone get a bookie willing to take a £100k stake on a market like that?
How does same person not expect it to be discussed out loud?
Quote from: thewobbler on June 25, 2024, 10:49:39 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on June 25, 2024, 10:46:49 PMSo after Tories apparently betting on the election date, a Labour candidate has bet on himself to lose?
How does someone get a bookie willing to take a £100k stake on a market like that?
How does same person not expect it to be discussed out loud?
100k? Jesus that is madness, only heard the headline didn't know it was that much.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2024, 10:43:07 PMQuote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2024, 09:18:06 PMLast year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
The alliance vote is also considerably greener these days. There was a euro election in 99 were nationalists hit 45% hence why unionists keep saying the nationalist vote hasn't moved in 25 years they conveniently ignore the 15% drop in the unionist vote.
Hopefully further traction for a border poll.
I would say you'd see them results a lot better on a graph. It'd be very visual.
£100. Not £100,000 ffs.
The £100,000 number was mentioned in connection with him as he has donated in excess of it to the party.
Quote from: gallsman on June 25, 2024, 11:31:04 PM£100. Not £100,000 ffs.
The £100,000 number was mentioned in connection with him as he has donated in excess of it to the party.
Ah that makes more sense!
More reading, less scanning for me ffs.
Quote from: marty34 on June 25, 2024, 11:17:30 PMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2024, 10:43:07 PMQuote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2024, 09:18:06 PMLast year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
The alliance vote is also considerably greener these days. There was a euro election in 99 were nationalists hit 45% hence why unionists keep saying the nationalist vote hasn't moved in 25 years they conveniently ignore the 15% drop in the unionist vote.
Hopefully further traction for a border poll.
I would say you'd see them results a lot better on a graph. It'd be very visual.
Nationalist does not mean a yes vote in a border poll
The vast majority are happy with the status quo
Alliance are unionists ffs ;D
They are aye ::)
Quote from: marty34 on June 25, 2024, 11:17:30 PMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2024, 10:43:07 PMQuote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2024, 09:18:06 PMLast year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
The alliance vote is also considerably greener these days. There was a euro election in 99 were nationalists hit 45% hence why unionists keep saying the nationalist vote hasn't moved in 25 years they conveniently ignore the 15% drop in the unionist vote.
Hopefully further traction for a border poll.
I would say you'd see them results a lot better on a graph. It'd be very visual.
In terms of the viewpoint of our politicians it is up there with asking if turkeys want to vote for Christmas.
What would happen to our 'hard working' MLAs and all the other sows who have their heads buried in the Stormont trough?
Quote from: LC on June 26, 2024, 09:36:24 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 25, 2024, 11:17:30 PMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2024, 10:43:07 PMQuote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2024, 09:18:06 PMLast year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
The alliance vote is also considerably greener these days. There was a euro election in 99 were nationalists hit 45% hence why unionists keep saying the nationalist vote hasn't moved in 25 years they conveniently ignore the 15% drop in the unionist vote.
Hopefully further traction for a border poll.
I would say you'd see them results a lot better on a graph. It'd be very visual.
In terms of the viewpoint of our politicians it is up there with asking if turkeys want to vote for Christmas.
What would happen to our 'hard working' MLAs and all the other sows who have their heads buried in the Stormont trough?
Will there be a Stormont in a federal Ireland in any UI proposal do you think?
Quote from: LC on June 26, 2024, 09:36:24 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 25, 2024, 11:17:30 PMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2024, 10:43:07 PMQuote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2024, 09:18:06 PMLast year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
The alliance vote is also considerably greener these days. There was a euro election in 99 were nationalists hit 45% hence why unionists keep saying the nationalist vote hasn't moved in 25 years they conveniently ignore the 15% drop in the unionist vote.
Hopefully further traction for a border poll.
I would say you'd see them results a lot better on a graph. It'd be very visual.
In terms of the viewpoint of our politicians it is up there with asking if turkeys want to vote for Christmas.
What would happen to our 'hard working' MLAs and all the other sows who have their heads buried in the Stormont trough?
I think that's the least of their worries.
Dublin must start planning now. We had Leo spoofing last week about this but, ironically, he was in charge for a few years and done f^#k all.
You'd think, by his chat, that he has no input into anything.
This election will be interesting again in regards to the % votes - unionist and nationalist.
Nationalist vote should remain steady/increase slightly while unionist vote will dip slightly. This will be the standard going forward. As I say, a graph over this past 40 years would show it better.
FPTP will be interesting in a few areas. I think Swann in South Antrim will be interesting as well as EB an LV. Will Alliance get over the line? T
Will disaffected unionists with the DUP give their X to the TUV or will the vote tacically against Alliance, even though they're not impressed with the DUP?
From a nationalist point of view, very disappointed with the SDLP standing in all these areas, including LV, NB and FST. Very disappointed. Typical Eastwood though - getting a clear run in SB but not replicating that generosity of spirit anywhere else. Typical Eastwood.
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2024, 09:59:28 AMQuote from: LC on June 26, 2024, 09:36:24 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 25, 2024, 11:17:30 PMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2024, 10:43:07 PMQuote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2024, 09:18:06 PMLast year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
The alliance vote is also considerably greener these days. There was a euro election in 99 were nationalists hit 45% hence why unionists keep saying the nationalist vote hasn't moved in 25 years they conveniently ignore the 15% drop in the unionist vote.
Hopefully further traction for a border poll.
I would say you'd see them results a lot better on a graph. It'd be very visual.
In terms of the viewpoint of our politicians it is up there with asking if turkeys want to vote for Christmas.
What would happen to our 'hard working' MLAs and all the other sows who have their heads buried in the Stormont trough?
I think that's the least of their worries.
Dublin must start planning now. We had Leo spoofing last week about this but, ironically, he was in charge for a few years and done f^#k all.
You'd think, by his chat, that he has no input into anything.
This election will be interesting again in regards to the % votes - unionist and nationalist.
Nationalist vote should remain steady/increase slightly while unionist vote will dip slightly. This will be the standard going forward. As I say, a graph over this past 40 years would show it better.
FPTP will be interesting in a few areas. I think Swann in South Antrim will be interesting as well as EB an LV. Will Alliance get over the line? T
Will disaffected unionists with the DUP give their X to the TUV or will the vote tacically against Alliance, even though they're not impressed with the DUP?
From a nationalist point of view, very disappointed with the SDLP standing in all these areas, including LV, NB and FST. Very disappointed. Typical Eastwood though - getting a clear run in SB but not replicating that generosity of spirit anywhere else. Typical Eastwood.
Wouldn't it be great if he got the road from Foyle.
Quote from: Father Murphy on June 26, 2024, 09:49:24 AMQuote from: LC on June 26, 2024, 09:36:24 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 25, 2024, 11:17:30 PMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2024, 10:43:07 PMQuote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2024, 09:18:06 PMLast year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
The alliance vote is also considerably greener these days. There was a euro election in 99 were nationalists hit 45% hence why unionists keep saying the nationalist vote hasn't moved in 25 years they conveniently ignore the 15% drop in the unionist vote.
Hopefully further traction for a border poll.
I would say you'd see them results a lot better on a graph. It'd be very visual.
In terms of the viewpoint of our politicians it is up there with asking if turkeys want to vote for Christmas.
What would happen to our 'hard working' MLAs and all the other sows who have their heads buried in the Stormont trough?
Will there be a Stormont in a federal Ireland in any UI proposal do you think?
There will be some type of Home Rule or Devolved Parliament.
I'm currently reading a book on the United Ireland subject. It's named, Making Sense of a United Ireland by Brendan O'Leary. It's a bit dry but interesting all the same.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 26, 2024, 10:42:54 AMQuote from: Father Murphy on June 26, 2024, 09:49:24 AMQuote from: LC on June 26, 2024, 09:36:24 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 25, 2024, 11:17:30 PMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2024, 10:43:07 PMQuote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2024, 09:18:06 PMLast year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
The alliance vote is also considerably greener these days. There was a euro election in 99 were nationalists hit 45% hence why unionists keep saying the nationalist vote hasn't moved in 25 years they conveniently ignore the 15% drop in the unionist vote.
Hopefully further traction for a border poll.
I would say you'd see them results a lot better on a graph. It'd be very visual.
In terms of the viewpoint of our politicians it is up there with asking if turkeys want to vote for Christmas.
What would happen to our 'hard working' MLAs and all the other sows who have their heads buried in the Stormont trough?
Will there be a Stormont in a federal Ireland in any UI proposal do you think?
There will be some type of Home Rule or Devolved Parliament.
It would be a colossal drain on resources. I can understand why Unionists might want it - would there be any actual benefit to the six counties in keeping Stormont?
I couldn't see it being kept in the present format, but there will be some transitional body required.
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 26, 2024, 12:14:17 AMNationalist does not mean a yes vote in a border poll
The vast majority are happy with the status quo
Alliance are unionists ffs ;D
Are you sure about that?
- many unionists are pro-european and have Irish passports
- many unionists are realising that english doesnt give a shit about them
- many uniontists would rather be a big fish in a wee pond in Dublin, than a wee fish in London
- many nationalists won't even vote in british elections, yet have to pay tax to the english
When you say the vast majority (??) of nationlaists are "happy with the status quo" you are clearly very wrong. Don't confuse "happy" with inertia.
Quote from: Orior on June 26, 2024, 01:32:12 PMQuote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 26, 2024, 12:14:17 AMNationalist does not mean a yes vote in a border poll
The vast majority are happy with the status quo
Alliance are unionists ffs ;D
Are you sure about that?
- many unionists are pro-european and have Irish passports
- many unionists are realising that english doesnt give a shit about them
- many uniontists would rather be a big fish in a wee pond in Dublin, than a wee fish in London
- many nationalists won't even vote in british elections, yet have to pay tax to the english
When you say the vast majority (??) of nationlaists are "happy with the status quo" you are clearly very wrong. Don't confuse "happy" with inertia.
Inertia is hard to shift from the status quo in such scenarios, Just ask the SNP..
Quote from: Orior on June 26, 2024, 01:32:12 PMQuote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 26, 2024, 12:14:17 AMNationalist does not mean a yes vote in a border poll
The vast majority are happy with the status quo
Alliance are unionists ffs ;D
Are you sure about that?
- many unionists are pro-european and have Irish passports
- many unionists are realising that english doesnt give a shit about them
- many uniontists would rather be a big fish in a wee pond in Dublin, than a wee fish in London
- many nationalists won't even vote in british elections, yet have to pay tax to the english
When you say the vast majority (??) of nationlaists are "happy with the status quo" you are clearly very wrong. Don't confuse "happy" with inertia.
Even if a unionist ticked the box for those top 3 criteria, when it came to ticking the box in a referendum they'd chose remain part of the UK. That's what unionism is.
Unionsits in a perverse way have more about them than Torys, at least they stand for something
Imagine being a Tory/voting Tory, they epitomise everything repugnant about being a 'tan'
Quote from: Father Murphy on June 26, 2024, 11:33:53 AMQuote from: Rossfan on June 26, 2024, 10:42:54 AMQuote from: Father Murphy on June 26, 2024, 09:49:24 AMQuote from: LC on June 26, 2024, 09:36:24 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 25, 2024, 11:17:30 PMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2024, 10:43:07 PMQuote from: Feckitt on June 25, 2024, 09:18:06 PMLast year in the 2022 Northern Ireland Local Elections, Nationalists outpolled Unionists for the first time ever in the 100 year history of the Northern state. My prediction for this election is that this will happen again next week. The demographic tide cannot be turned and Unionists will never ever win another election again, including the Unity Referendum.
1974 General Election, Unionists 61.9% - Nationalists 30.2%
1998 Assembly Election, Unionists 50.7% - Nationalists 39.6%
2019 General Election, Unionists 43.2% - Nationalists 40.1%
2022 Assembly Election, Unionists 42.3% - Nationalists 40.5%
2023 Local Election, Unionists 40.1% - Nationalists 43.9%
2024 General Election ?????????
The alliance vote is also considerably greener these days. There was a euro election in 99 were nationalists hit 45% hence why unionists keep saying the nationalist vote hasn't moved in 25 years they conveniently ignore the 15% drop in the unionist vote.
Hopefully further traction for a border poll.
I would say you'd see them results a lot better on a graph. It'd be very visual.
In terms of the viewpoint of our politicians it is up there with asking if turkeys want to vote for Christmas.
What would happen to our 'hard working' MLAs and all the other sows who have their heads buried in the Stormont trough?
Will there be a Stormont in a federal Ireland in any UI proposal do you think?
There will be some type of Home Rule or Devolved Parliament.
It would be a colossal drain on resources. I can understand why Unionists might want it - would there be any actual benefit to the six counties in keeping Stormont?
Does keeping Stormont when there's a United ireland mean there's not really a United ireland?
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 26, 2024, 01:48:58 PMDoes keeping Stormont when there's a United ireland mean there's not really a United ireland?
Many countries have sub-national parliaments.
Quote from: dec on June 26, 2024, 01:55:22 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on June 26, 2024, 01:48:58 PMDoes keeping Stormont when there's a United ireland mean there's not really a United ireland?
Many countries have sub-national parliaments.
Any the size of Ireland though?
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 26, 2024, 01:57:47 PMQuote from: dec on June 26, 2024, 01:55:22 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on June 26, 2024, 01:48:58 PMDoes keeping Stormont when there's a United ireland mean there's not really a United ireland?
Many countries have sub-national parliaments.
Any the size of Ireland though?
Ireland's population is over 7 million, Switzerland is about 8.5
Bosnia is half the size and has autonomous regions. Serbia is smaller and has autonomous regions. Both have a hell a lot of a bloodier recent history. Belgium is significantly smaller geographically, with a larger population.
As for "what benefit" might there be, it might help stop men with guns from killing people for one.
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 26, 2024, 01:48:58 PMDoes keeping Stormont when there's a United ireland mean there's not really a United ireland?
Only to imbeciles.
Conservatives are screwed with a week to go. Which is thoroughly deserved of course. Yet Labour will have an enormous majority despite still representing less than half the voters.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ_maYJWIAACjwg?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2024, 02:28:28 PMYet Labour will have an enormous majority despite still representing less than half the voters.
A lot of Tory politicians and voters are big fans of PR all of a sudden.
Quote from: gallsman on June 26, 2024, 02:24:00 PMBosnia is half the size and has autonomous regions. Serbia is smaller and has autonomous regions. Both have a hell a lot of a bloodier recent history. Belgium is significantly smaller geographically, with a larger population.
As for "what benefit" might there be, it might help stop men with guns from killing people for one.
Fair.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 26, 2024, 02:36:48 PMQuote from: gallsman on June 26, 2024, 02:24:00 PMBosnia is half the size and has autonomous regions. Serbia is smaller and has autonomous regions. Both have a hell a lot of a bloodier recent history. Belgium is significantly smaller geographically, with a larger population.
As for "what benefit" might there be, it might help stop men with guns from killing people for one.
Fair.
It isn't clear how it would do that. If Ireland is united it is because there is a nationalist majority in the 6 counties, leaving a parliament there would not provide a unionist majority.
No but there will be dual citizenship in accordance with GFA for 6Cos people so there will have to be a designated area.
The 6 and 26 as 2 home rule territories in an Irish Confederation.
Certain things under the Home Rule assemblies and bigger stuff under the Confederation Government.
See Switzerland, Belgium for example
I thought, by the recent chat, that Reform would beat the Tory party into 2nd place.
Reform could finish second or get absolutely nothing at all. Hard to know what will work out there.
They feel a bit like they are significantly over amplified. Guess time will tell.
Also hard to know how busted a flush the tories are. Lib dems might end up challenging them for 2nd (or 3rd depending on reform) or people may chicken out and they'll get far more votes than predicted.
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2024, 04:12:25 PMI thought, by the recent chat, that Reform would beat the Tory party into 2nd place.
Unlikely. The Brits are probably just as stuck in the mud when it comes to elections as we are.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 26, 2024, 04:17:26 PMReform could finish second or get absolutely nothing at all. Hard to know what will work out there.
They feel a bit like they are significantly over amplified. Guess time will tell.
Also hard to know how busted a flush the tories are. Lib dems might end up challenging them for 2nd (or 3rd depending on reform) or people may chicken out and they'll get far more votes than predicted.
Reform have many complete looneys, they just have not had the councillors etc to get decent candidates, whereas many of the Conservative MPs are solid representatives and not at all like Boris.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crggy73m2ero
What is the point in wasting your vote on a candidate who won't take their seat.
Asked and answered on here and elsewhere about 100million times as you well know lol
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2024, 05:56:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on June 26, 2024, 04:17:26 PMReform could finish second or get absolutely nothing at all. Hard to know what will work out there.
They feel a bit like they are significantly over amplified. Guess time will tell.
Also hard to know how busted a flush the tories are. Lib dems might end up challenging them for 2nd (or 3rd depending on reform) or people may chicken out and they'll get far more votes than predicted.
Reform have many complete looneys, they just have not had the councillors etc to get decent candidates, whereas many of the Conservative MPs are solid representatives and not at all like Boris.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crggy73m2ero
I don't think that's accurate any more. Johnson cleared out voices of sanity. In reality the current crew wouldn't be much different to reform- some of their current incumbents really are the dregs of society.
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 26, 2024, 09:53:14 PMAsked and answered on here and elsewhere about 100million times as you well know lol
I presumed it would be on here but honestly couldn't be bothered trawling through all the pages here.
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 26, 2024, 09:35:53 PMWhat is the point in wasting your vote on a candidate who won't take their seat.
To answer your question in my honest opinion. Just because a SF MP doesn't take their seat doesn't mean they don't work for their constituency. On the other hand if you ever watch politics live you'll see that the second there is any motions for Northern Ireland the chamber empties out to SDLP, Alliance and DUP MP's and about 4 or 5 80 year Tory MP's who are just waiting about for the canteen to open. Northern Ireland is nothing but an irrelevance to Westminster unfortunatley.
Quote from: Nanderson on June 26, 2024, 10:37:59 PMQuote from: nrico2006 on June 26, 2024, 09:35:53 PMWhat is the point in wasting your vote on a candidate who won't take their seat.
To answer your question in my honest opinion. Just because a SF MP doesn't take their seat doesn't mean they don't work for their constituency. On the other hand if you ever watch politics live you'll see that the second there is any motions for Northern Ireland the chamber empties out to SDLP, Alliance and DUP MP's and about 4 or 5 80 year Tory MP's who are just waiting about for the canteen to open. Northern Ireland is nothing but an irrelevance to Westminster unfortunatley.
I'd say that's typical for Welsh and Scottish motions
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 26, 2024, 09:35:53 PMWhat is the point in wasting your vote on a candidate who won't take their seat.
They sit on Westminster committees, they run constituency offices as usual. The only thing they can't do is enter the fancy talking shop.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 27, 2024, 07:19:41 AMQuote from: nrico2006 on June 26, 2024, 09:35:53 PMWhat is the point in wasting your vote on a candidate who won't take their seat.
They sit on Westminster committees, they run constituency offices as usual. The only thing they can't do is enter the fancy talking shop.
The place is empty when they speak anyway. Did you ever see the photos from it? Nobody in the place.
Only reason people go there is for a peerage I reckon.
Not one f**k could most of the english mps give.
It's not the only reason. There are several go for prestige, there are ones who would genuinely believe they're making a difference etc. The latter is a quality very few politicians have these days mind you - here or anywhere.
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2024, 04:12:25 PMI thought, by the recent chat, that Reform would beat the Tory party into 2nd place.
I think Farage's comments last weekend about Putin and Ukraine have actually stalled Reform's progress.
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 27, 2024, 09:55:34 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 26, 2024, 04:12:25 PMI thought, by the recent chat, that Reform would beat the Tory party into 2nd place.
I think Farage's comments last weekend about Putin and Ukraine have actually stalled Reform's progress.
These comments are not new from Farage, he followed them straight from the Trump playbook and has been on record with this type of sh*t before now.
They generally work but I am not sure he's read the room on this one. You almost wonder is he happier being runner up.
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 27, 2024, 09:55:34 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 26, 2024, 04:12:25 PMI thought, by the recent chat, that Reform would beat the Tory party into 2nd place.
I think Farage's comments last weekend about Putin and Ukraine have actually stalled Reform's progress.
When someone tells you who they are the first time, believe them.
Farage was always a stooge for Putin, follow the money.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 27, 2024, 11:51:36 AMQuote from: Pub Bore on June 27, 2024, 09:55:34 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 26, 2024, 04:12:25 PMI thought, by the recent chat, that Reform would beat the Tory party into 2nd place.
I think Farage's comments last weekend about Putin and Ukraine have actually stalled Reform's progress.
When someone tells you who they are the first time, believe them.
Farage was always a stooge for Putin, follow the money.
That other Brexiteer guy Aaron Banks is seriously dodgy.
Channel 4 did a good expose on Reform last night. Racist and homophobic was a constant theme.
I just read that Farage was never elected as a MP.
He was parachuted in this time, after a lad was already picked and spent £6k of his own money on PR and election material etc. He was told step aside, we'll refund you and we'll give you a key role in the campaign and set you up with a handy number basicalky after the election...if you mske no fuss.
What happened? He made a statement saying he supported Farage etc. stepped aside but has been sidelined ever since. Standing as an independent now.
Reform are are getting rid of a guy for saying they should use the refuges coming over in the boats as target practice.. These lads seem friendly enough
Quote from: marty34 on June 28, 2024, 09:32:45 AMChannel 4 did a good expose on Reform last night. Racist and homophobic was a constant theme.
I just read that Farage was never elected as a MP.
He was parachuted in this time, after a lad was already picked and spent £6k of his own money on PR and election material etc. He was told step aside, we'll refund you and we'll give you a key role in the campaign and set you up with a handy number basicalky after the election...if you mske no fuss.
What happened? He made a statement saying he supported Farage etc. stepped aside but has been sidelined ever since. Standing as an independent now.
Farage is a bad man and I don't think there's any other way to put it. Creates division and then thrives on the repercussions of it.
I would doubt he believes anything that comes out of his mouth.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 28, 2024, 11:15:54 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 28, 2024, 09:32:45 AMChannel 4 did a good expose on Reform last night. Racist and homophobic was a constant theme.
I just read that Farage was never elected as a MP.
He was parachuted in this time, after a lad was already picked and spent £6k of his own money on PR and election material etc. He was told step aside, we'll refund you and we'll give you a key role in the campaign and set you up with a handy number basicalky after the election...if you mske no fuss.
What happened? He made a statement saying he supported Farage etc. stepped aside but has been sidelined ever since. Standing as an independent now.
Farage is a bad man and I don't think there's any other way to put it. Creates division and then thrives on the repercussions of it.
I would doubt he believes anything that comes out of his mouth.
He looks up to Trump ffs....says it all!
Quote from: marty34 on June 28, 2024, 09:32:45 AMChannel 4 did a good expose on Reform last night. Racist and homophobic was a constant theme.
A set-up. Channel 4 employed an actor to pose as a Reform party worker. Scandalous, really. Mainstream media completely discredited.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 30, 2024, 08:30:41 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 28, 2024, 09:32:45 AMChannel 4 did a good expose on Reform last night. Racist and homophobic was a constant theme.
A set-up. Channel 4 employed an actor to pose as a Reform party worker. Scandalous, really. Mainstream media completely discredited.
Think you'll find that guy was an actor but also a fantasist and channel four didn't pay him and Reform didn't vet him either.
Unless you've evidence he was paid by channel four though
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2024, 08:50:45 AMQuote from: burdizzo on June 30, 2024, 08:30:41 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 28, 2024, 09:32:45 AMChannel 4 did a good expose on Reform last night. Racist and homophobic was a constant theme.
A set-up. Channel 4 employed an actor to pose as a Reform party worker. Scandalous, really. Mainstream media completely discredited.
Think you'll find that guy was an actor but also a fantasist and channel four didn't pay him and Reform didn't vet him either.
Unless you've evidence he was paid by channel four though
Fair enough, I can't prove he was paid, but it was almost certainly orchestrated.
I would say that I could believe both sides to this, it just depends which narrative you believe
I find it very unlikely that channel 4 did this.
Anyone who might have done this needs to have a look at themselves because reform do enough to discredit themselves without needing any plants. This is the party where one of their head men said they should let illegal immigrants drown in the channel. (Ben habib).
Nigel not a happy boy lol
https://x.com/bydonkeys/status/1807141707571454290?s=46
2 days out and the only leaflet I've got is from the Shinners themselves, havent had the usual avalanche of leaflets the post man brings every election time, is it as quiet elsewhere?
Quote from: Brendan on July 02, 2024, 09:42:45 PM2 days out and the only leaflet I've got is from the Shinners themselves, havent had the usual avalanche of leaflets the post man brings every election time, is it as quiet elsewhere?
Same here and that was hand delivered.
Have had one leaflet from SF through the post but have not heard tell of anyone at the door, and just to add it has been a fair few years since any of them were at the door
The skit by Jonathan Pie as a summary of the consecutive Conservative governments is a thing of beauty. It's hilarious, but also infuriating.
Voting Tory is worse than voting DUP
It's been a low key campaign (at least where I live). Ones to watch
North Down - Farry v Easton v Collins. Easton and Collins both have had gaffes in their campaigns. Farry just to hold on
FST - It's always going to be close - A couple of hundred votes could swing it either way. Too close to call.
South Down - SF defending a majority of just 1,600. SDLP running Colin McGrath, high profile and a decent media performer. Hazzard used to have a profile but not so much since he went to Westminster. I'm sticking my neck out here and going for the SDLP to nick this.
Foyle - Eastwood will not be beaten but it's a matter of how much SF reduce his 17,000 majority by.
South Antrim - Wee Robin Swann v the DUP. Swann to win by a small margin.
East Belfast - Robinson to hold on. Just my gut.
Lagan Valley - Buckley to spring a surprise and hold off Alliance.
As you were for the rest.
Quote from: Pub Bore on July 03, 2024, 10:53:22 AMIt's been a low key campaign (at least where I live). Ones to watch
North Down - Farry v Easton v Collins. Easton and Collins both have had gaffes in their campaigns. Farry just to hold on
FST - It's always going to be close - A couple of hundred votes could swing it either way. Too close to call.
South Down - SF defending a majority of just 1,600. SDLP running Colin McGrath, high profile and a decent media performer. Hazzard used to have a profile but not so much since he went to Westminster. I'm sticking my neck out here and going for the SDLP to nick this.
Foyle - Eastwood will not be beaten but it's a matter of how much SF reduce his 17,000 majority by.
South Antrim - Wee Robin Swann v the DUP. Swann to win by a small margin.
East Belfast - Robinson to hold on. Just my gut.
Lagan Valley - Buckley to spring a surprise and hold off Alliance.
As you were for the rest.
SF got 24k First preference Votes in South Down in Stormont elections where SDLP got 9k I don't think SDLP have a hope of winning South Down.
Will take a massive DUP turn out in the East I would think to get Robinson in.
Ever changing demographic on that side of the city.
Quote from: Pub Bore on July 03, 2024, 10:53:22 AMIt's been a low key campaign (at least where I live). Ones to watch
North Down - Farry v Easton v Collins. Easton and Collins both have had gaffes in their campaigns. Farry just to hold on
FST - It's always going to be close - A couple of hundred votes could swing it either way. Too close to call.
South Down - SF defending a majority of just 1,600. SDLP running Colin McGrath, high profile and a decent media performer. Hazzard used to have a profile but not so much since he went to Westminster. I'm sticking my neck out here and going for the SDLP to nick this.
Foyle - Eastwood will not be beaten but it's a matter of how much SF reduce his 17,000 majority by.
South Antrim - Wee Robin Swann v the DUP. Swann to win by a small margin.
East Belfast - Robinson to hold on. Just my gut.
Lagan Valley - Buckley to spring a surprise and hold off Alliance.
As you were for the rest.
If Alliance had of put up someone of substance in Strangford they were in with a shout of unseating that moron Jim Shannon due to the boundary changes.
I might still have to vote for her whoever she is just in the hope that she does do it.
FPTP is feckin depressing when you're surrounded by band loving, bone fire building retrobates.
If Labour do get this big majority I really hope they do bring in PR to really f**k the Tories over once and for all.
They won't because it would hurt them in the future.
On my recent trip to Omagh I was surprised to see so few posters, 4 I think, along the way.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2024, 11:14:38 AMThey won't because it would hurt them in the future.
On my recent trip to Omagh I was surprised to see so few posters, 4 I think, along the way.
How would it?
This "super" majority that's meant to be happening tomorrow is as much about how shíte the Tory's are as much as how good Labour may be.
Over the timeline of British democracy the Labour party has not been in power very much, PR could well change that for the longer term.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2024, 11:18:38 AMQuote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2024, 11:14:38 AMThey won't because it would hurt them in the future.
On my recent trip to Omagh I was surprised to see so few posters, 4 I think, along the way.
How would it?
This "super" majority that's meant to be happening tomorrow is as much about how shíte the Tory's are as much as how good Labour may be.
Over the timeline of British democracy the Labour party has not been in power very much, PR could well change that for the longer term.
First past the post suits the big parties. Didn't Labour oppose the change to P.R. in the referendum they had a few years ago? I see no reason for them to hand over the advantage they'll get with a huge majority. It's also the reason the likes of Reform, Greens, even Lib Dems, don't generally win that many seats.
Quote from: burdizzo on July 03, 2024, 11:28:21 AMQuote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2024, 11:18:38 AMQuote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2024, 11:14:38 AMThey won't because it would hurt them in the future.
On my recent trip to Omagh I was surprised to see so few posters, 4 I think, along the way.
How would it?
This "super" majority that's meant to be happening tomorrow is as much about how shíte the Tory's are as much as how good Labour may be.
Over the timeline of British democracy the Labour party has not been in power very much, PR could well change that for the longer term.
First past the post suits the big parties. Didn't Labour oppose the change to P.R. in the referendum they had a few years ago? I see no reason for them to hand over the advantage they'll get with a huge majority. It's also the reason the likes of Reform, Greens, even Lib Dems, don't generally win that many seats.
That was some hybrid PR shít that the Tory's concocted with the Lib Dems and was never going to pass but was enough for the Lib dems to tick a box in their manifesto under the Cameron/Clegg Government.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2024, 11:09:46 AMQuote from: Pub Bore on July 03, 2024, 10:53:22 AMIt's been a low key campaign (at least where I live). Ones to watch
North Down - Farry v Easton v Collins. Easton and Collins both have had gaffes in their campaigns. Farry just to hold on
FST - It's always going to be close - A couple of hundred votes could swing it either way. Too close to call.
South Down - SF defending a majority of just 1,600. SDLP running Colin McGrath, high profile and a decent media performer. Hazzard used to have a profile but not so much since he went to Westminster. I'm sticking my neck out here and going for the SDLP to nick this.
Foyle - Eastwood will not be beaten but it's a matter of how much SF reduce his 17,000 majority by.
South Antrim - Wee Robin Swann v the DUP. Swann to win by a small margin.
East Belfast - Robinson to hold on. Just my gut.
Lagan Valley - Buckley to spring a surprise and hold off Alliance.
As you were for the rest.
If Alliance had of put up someone of substance in Strangford they were in with a shout of unseating that moron Jim Shannon due to the boundary changes.
I might still have to vote for her whoever she is just in the hope that she does do it.
FPTP is feckin depressing when you're surrounded by band loving, bone fire building retrobates.
If Labour do get this big majority I really hope they do bring in PR to really f**k the Tories over once and for all.
East Antrim too. A chance to scare that twit Sammy. Alliance don't seem to have the resources to go for it in multiple constituencies. SF seem anonymous, I know they reckon they will hold their 7 seats without too much drama but their vote share will be well down. A real chance to kick the DUP and all the parties seem to be letting it pass
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 03, 2024, 11:58:17 AMQuote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2024, 11:09:46 AMQuote from: Pub Bore on July 03, 2024, 10:53:22 AMIt's been a low key campaign (at least where I live). Ones to watch
North Down - Farry v Easton v Collins. Easton and Collins both have had gaffes in their campaigns. Farry just to hold on
FST - It's always going to be close - A couple of hundred votes could swing it either way. Too close to call.
South Down - SF defending a majority of just 1,600. SDLP running Colin McGrath, high profile and a decent media performer. Hazzard used to have a profile but not so much since he went to Westminster. I'm sticking my neck out here and going for the SDLP to nick this.
Foyle - Eastwood will not be beaten but it's a matter of how much SF reduce his 17,000 majority by.
South Antrim - Wee Robin Swann v the DUP. Swann to win by a small margin.
East Belfast - Robinson to hold on. Just my gut.
Lagan Valley - Buckley to spring a surprise and hold off Alliance.
As you were for the rest.
If Alliance had of put up someone of substance in Strangford they were in with a shout of unseating that moron Jim Shannon due to the boundary changes.
I might still have to vote for her whoever she is just in the hope that she does do it.
FPTP is feckin depressing when you're surrounded by band loving, bone fire building retrobates.
If Labour do get this big majority I really hope they do bring in PR to really f**k the Tories over once and for all.
East Antrim too. A chance to scare that twit Sammy. Alliance don't seem to have the resources to go for it in multiple constituencies. SF seem anonymous, I know they reckon they will hold their 7 seats without too much drama but their vote share will be well down. A real chance to kick the DUP and all the parties seem to be letting it pass
SF's vote share in 2019 was 22.8% - the polls have them on course for something similar. They're not standing in every constituency so the share won't be as big as Assembly or Council elections. Anyway in FPTP vote share isn't as important as the number of seats you win. In 2017 SF's vote share was 29.4% and they got 7 seats, same as 2019.
Voted on my way into work this morning. Very quiet at about 8:15am.
I see Carla has been issuing out emails trying to rouse the troops.
"By voting Lockhart X you can ensure continued representation at Westminster. If you dont vote or split the unionist vote you will have an abstentionist MP with NO VOICE and NO VOTE."
Seems that she is quite concerned. I'd be surprised if she was caught really.
Quote from: Pub Bore on July 03, 2024, 12:55:55 PMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 03, 2024, 11:58:17 AMQuote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2024, 11:09:46 AMQuote from: Pub Bore on July 03, 2024, 10:53:22 AMIt's been a low key campaign (at least where I live). Ones to watch
North Down - Farry v Easton v Collins. Easton and Collins both have had gaffes in their campaigns. Farry just to hold on
FST - It's always going to be close - A couple of hundred votes could swing it either way. Too close to call.
South Down - SF defending a majority of just 1,600. SDLP running Colin McGrath, high profile and a decent media performer. Hazzard used to have a profile but not so much since he went to Westminster. I'm sticking my neck out here and going for the SDLP to nick this.
Foyle - Eastwood will not be beaten but it's a matter of how much SF reduce his 17,000 majority by.
South Antrim - Wee Robin Swann v the DUP. Swann to win by a small margin.
East Belfast - Robinson to hold on. Just my gut.
Lagan Valley - Buckley to spring a surprise and hold off Alliance.
As you were for the rest.
If Alliance had of put up someone of substance in Strangford they were in with a shout of unseating that moron Jim Shannon due to the boundary changes.
I might still have to vote for her whoever she is just in the hope that she does do it.
FPTP is feckin depressing when you're surrounded by band loving, bone fire building retrobates.
If Labour do get this big majority I really hope they do bring in PR to really f**k the Tories over once and for all.
East Antrim too. A chance to scare that twit Sammy. Alliance don't seem to have the resources to go for it in multiple constituencies. SF seem anonymous, I know they reckon they will hold their 7 seats without too much drama but their vote share will be well down. A real chance to kick the DUP and all the parties seem to be letting it pass
SF's vote share in 2019 was 22.8% - the polls have them on course for something similar. They're not standing in every constituency so the share won't be as big as Assembly or Council elections. Anyway in FPTP vote share isn't as important as the number of seats you win. In 2017 SF's vote share was 29.4% and they got 7 seats, same as 2019.
I would imagine this is the reason for the low key approach.
Yeah, majority of 8,200...only 5 candidates...Doug Beattie, Dolores Kelly and John O'Dowd, all high profile candidates not standing...you'd think she'd be safe enough?
Quote from: lurganblue on July 04, 2024, 11:46:00 AMI see Carla has been issuing out emails trying to rouse the troops.
"By voting Lockhart X you can ensure continued representation at Westminster. If you dont vote or split the unionist vote you will have an abstentionist MP with NO VOICE and NO VOTE."
Seems that she is quite concerned. I'd be surprised if she was caught really.
Yeah, majority of 8,200...only 5 candidates...Doug Beattie, Dolores Kelly and John O'Dowd, all high profile candidates not standing...you'd think she'd be safe enough?
Some difference in the amount of press outside the 2 stations!
QuoteIf Alliance had of put up someone of substance in Strangford they were in with a shout of unseating that moron Jim Shannon due to the boundary changes.
I might still have to vote for her whoever she is just in the hope that she does do it.
FPTP is feckin depressing when you're surrounded by band loving, bone fire building retrobates.
If Labour do get this big majority I really hope they do bring in PR to really f**k the Tories over once and for all.
What a shitshow of a constituency. Was hard to look past a hurling legend this morning in order to vote tactically! What did we do to deserve being thrown in with you lot JC?? :)
Quote from: Pub Bore on July 04, 2024, 11:52:10 AMQuote from: lurganblue on July 04, 2024, 11:46:00 AMI see Carla has been issuing out emails trying to rouse the troops.
"By voting Lockhart X you can ensure continued representation at Westminster. If you dont vote or split the unionist vote you will have an abstentionist MP with NO VOICE and NO VOTE."
Seems that she is quite concerned. I'd be surprised if she was caught really.
Yeah, majority of 8,200...only 5 candidates...Doug Beattie, Dolores Kelly and John O'Dowd, all high profile candidates not standing...you'd think she'd be safe enough?
Probably not this time, or the next, but Upper Bann will turn green in the not to distant future.
Just after voting at 12.30, straight in and out, no one there I noticed there was a Tory on the ballot paper, I would guess she's in with a chance of getting the fewest votes of any candidate in the whole election.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 04, 2024, 01:11:02 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on July 04, 2024, 11:52:10 AMQuote from: lurganblue on July 04, 2024, 11:46:00 AMI see Carla has been issuing out emails trying to rouse the troops.
"By voting Lockhart X you can ensure continued representation at Westminster. If you dont vote or split the unionist vote you will have an abstentionist MP with NO VOICE and NO VOTE."
Seems that she is quite concerned. I'd be surprised if she was caught really.
Yeah, majority of 8,200...only 5 candidates...Doug Beattie, Dolores Kelly and John O'Dowd, all high profile candidates not standing...you'd think she'd be safe enough?
Probably not this time, or the next, but Upper Bann will turn green in the not to distant future.
Just after voting at 12.30, straight in and out, no one there I noticed there was a Tory on the ballot paper, I would guess she's in with a chance of getting the fewest votes of any candidate in the whole election.
In fairness once the likes of upper Bann go green the game is over they will be constituencies for the Dail by then
Quote from: lurganblue on July 04, 2024, 11:46:00 AMI see Carla has been issuing out emails trying to rouse the troops.
"By voting Lockhart X you can ensure continued representation at Westminster. If you dont vote or split the unionist vote you will have an abstentionist MP with NO VOICE and NO VOTE."
Seems that she is quite concerned. I'd be surprised if she was caught really.
On the 'great smells' thread , someone talked about unionist desperation (that was the winner for me btw)
We're seeing it more and more. That's another example
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 04, 2024, 01:21:41 PMQuote from: lurganblue on July 04, 2024, 11:46:00 AMI see Carla has been issuing out emails trying to rouse the troops.
"By voting Lockhart X you can ensure continued representation at Westminster. If you dont vote or split the unionist vote you will have an abstentionist MP with NO VOICE and NO VOTE."
Seems that she is quite concerned. I'd be surprised if she was caught really.
On the 'great smells' thread , someone talked about unionist desperation (that was the winner for me btw)
We're seeing it more and more. That's another example
read today that her emailing people like that was a breach of GDPR
Called in at lunch time to vote in FST, very quiet at the polling station.
I will always vote as it wasn't long ago we didn't even have that right and the younger generation needs to be reminded of that.
Quote from: Hereiam on July 04, 2024, 03:12:21 PMCalled in at lunch time to vote in FST, very quiet at the polling station.
I will always vote as it wasn't long ago we didn't even have that right and the younger generation needs to be reminded of that.
100%
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 04, 2024, 04:06:50 PMQuote from: Hereiam on July 04, 2024, 03:12:21 PMCalled in at lunch time to vote in FST, very quiet at the polling station.
I will always vote as it wasn't long ago we didn't even have that right and the younger generation needs to be reminded of that.
100%
+1.
Funny enough, I got a Whatsapp from a political party today with message saying Vote For X.
Just a generic one I think.
Is this allowed? It had just come from a number (which I hadn't got in my contacts).
Hearing SF activists in F&ST reminding voters going into the polling station its Pat Cullen not Gerry Cullen is running for Sinn Féin!
Where wud you get it!
Just voted there was only 150 ballots done so far they had up on the wall.. Had a few party's knocking on the door asking if I'd voted yet. Turnout might be pretty low
Was speaking to someone this morning who didn't even know it was today!
Very quiet polling station. Only one party with a presence outside and only one with tellers (I think that's what they call them) inside. Same party btw.
I see the Unionists around Coleraine (East Derry) panicking over turnout :o
Shinners have knocked my door 3 times today and asked if I've voted and if I voted for their candidate.. Pretty sure that's a no no
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 04, 2024, 08:21:01 PMShinners have knocked my door 3 times today and asked if I've voted and if I voted for their candidate.. Pretty sure that's a no no
Your vote was hard won. You'd want to be taking a look at yourself if you aren't voting at all.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 04, 2024, 08:32:46 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 04, 2024, 08:21:01 PMShinners have knocked my door 3 times today and asked if I've voted and if I voted for their candidate.. Pretty sure that's a no no
Your vote was hard won. You'd want to be taking a look at yourself if you aren't voting at all.
Not sure it makes any difference in Westminster to local issues because not one **** do they give about this place... so I'm out. Council elections are more self governing and can make a difference locally.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 04, 2024, 08:32:46 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 04, 2024, 08:21:01 PMShinners have knocked my door 3 times today and asked if I've voted and if I voted for their candidate.. Pretty sure that's a no no
Your vote was hard won. You'd want to be taking a look at yourself if you aren't voting at all.
You've misunderstood him.
He has voted.
He doesn't believe SF should be asking people such questions.
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 04, 2024, 08:21:01 PMShinners have knocked my door 3 times today and asked if I've voted and if I voted for their candidate.. Pretty sure that's a no no
Why is it a No No?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 04, 2024, 09:21:23 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 04, 2024, 08:32:46 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 04, 2024, 08:21:01 PMShinners have knocked my door 3 times today and asked if I've voted and if I voted for their candidate.. Pretty sure that's a no no
Your vote was hard won. You'd want to be taking a look at yourself if you aren't voting at all.
You've misunderstood him.
He has voted.
He doesn't believe SF should be asking people such questions.
Read it as they asked did you vote and he's said no.
Don't think theres any harm in parties trying to get people out and vote but obviously it's none of their business who you vote for.
Quote from: Itchy on July 04, 2024, 09:29:38 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 04, 2024, 08:21:01 PMShinners have knocked my door 3 times today and asked if I've voted and if I voted for their candidate.. Pretty sure that's a no no
Why is it a No No?
It's not. Nothing wrong with canvassing on election day. Plus they have him down as a strong supporter from previous canvass if they are checking in with him on election day.
Alliance v DUP is the story here, across several constituencies.
Everything else to be as you were....
Quote from: Itchy on July 04, 2024, 09:29:38 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 04, 2024, 08:21:01 PMShinners have knocked my door 3 times today and asked if I've voted and if I voted for their candidate.. Pretty sure that's a no no
Why is it a No No?
Shouldn't be asking who I voted for imo - Maybe that's just me but I wouldn't ask anyone who they voted for.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 04, 2024, 04:06:50 PMQuote from: Hereiam on July 04, 2024, 03:12:21 PMCalled in at lunch time to vote in FST, very quiet at the polling station.
I will always vote as it wasn't long ago we didn't even have that right and the younger generation needs to be reminded of that.
100%
How long ago was it that you weren't allowed to vote?
Exit poll 410 for Labour, SNP almost wiped out.
Christ. That exit poll is astounding.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 04, 2024, 10:02:11 PMExit poll 410 for Labour, SNP almost wiped out.
SNP screwed :(
f**k the Tories. Nobody to blame but themselves.
Landslide but.. Bit lower than expected for Labour.
Hard to see SNP recover quickly from this spanking
Have the pro Independence voters given up on the SNP?
Is there an exit poll for the north of Ireland or is it just the mainland.
3 o clock they're expecting the first 6 counties seat to be declared, dont think I'll last that long ???
SNP is like Sinn Fein: pretend nationalists mired in cultural Marxism. Past its sell-by date.
The people have spoken, From humiliation to annihilation for the Conservative Party, Maggie will be turning in her grave.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 04, 2024, 10:20:37 PMIs there an exit poll for the north of Ireland or is it just the mainland.
None in the north no
Nigel's Reform Party vote predicted to be 3rd biggest share apparently
Quote from: burdizzo on July 04, 2024, 10:22:03 PMSNP is like Sinn Fein: pretend nationalists mired in cultural Marxism. Past its sell-by date.
Are the Nazi lites running many
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 04, 2024, 10:31:58 PMQuote from: burdizzo on July 04, 2024, 10:22:03 PMSNP is like Sinn Fein: pretend nationalists mired in cultural Marxism. Past its sell-by date.
Are the Nazi lites running many
Quote from: burdizzo on July 04, 2024, 10:22:03 PMSNP is like Sinn Fein: pretend nationalists mired in cultural Marxism. Past its sell-by date.
I forget what Marx's views on gender self-id were. Any chance you could remind me?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 04, 2024, 10:23:52 PMThe people have spoken, From humiliation to annihilation for the Conservative Party, Maggie will be turning in her grave.
Not complete annihilation unfortunately. If the exit poll is right, they've enough to start thinking about starting to build an opposition. I suspect a lot of these new labour MPs don't be carrying massive majorities and Starmer will have to perform to keep them next time around.
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 04, 2024, 10:25:34 PMNigel's Reform Party vote predicted to be 3rd biggest share apparently
But not the 3rd biggest share of seats
That's quite a big vote for Reform in the first result in Sunderland. Labour candidate got 18k and Reform got 11k.
I hope those Lockhart rumours are true but I'd be very surprised if it was.
Labour hold in Sunderland not the news. Nearly 12k for Reform is scary.
Reforms support going to be well well beyond the 13 or so seats they get.
FPTP hides alot of their support.
Now Gregory Campbell rumoured to be under pressure.
Where is everybody seeing these rumours? BBC playing it all down
Quote from: Brendan on July 04, 2024, 11:26:30 PMWhere is everybody seeing these rumours? BBC playing it all down
Allison Morris was on RTE about Lockhart and I seen an Irish News journalist tweeting about Gregory Campbell. Probably all bollox.
SF candidate says she's confident she can win. Still not a single box at the count centre though!!
Quote from: gallsman on July 04, 2024, 11:19:42 PMLabour hold in Sunderland not the news. Nearly 12k for Reform is scary.
And again in the 2nd result in. They are going to get a fairly big % of the vote.
Paul Givan struggling in South Antrim.
Robin Swann outpolling him 2 and 3 to 1 in some areas.
IF the DUP are in trouble in South Antrim they are going to really really struggle in Lagan Valley, East Belfast and dare I say... Upper Bann.
Reform predicted to have taken a seat of Labour in Barnsley... Some going to take a seat from Labour
Quote from: square_ball on July 04, 2024, 11:41:01 PMQuote from: gallsman on July 04, 2024, 11:19:42 PMLabour hold in Sunderland not the news. Nearly 12k for Reform is scary.
And again in the 2nd result in. They are going to get a fairly big % of the vote.
The Reform candidate actually looked shocked too when they read out 10,000 votes.
Sunderland not surprising considering they famously voted for Brexit despite the threat of Nissan pulling out of the area.
Lagan Valley looking very likely Alliance according to BBC.
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 04, 2024, 11:54:29 PMReform predicted to have taken a seat of Labour in Barnsley... Some going to take a seat from Labour
Owen Jones really bemoaning how this has played out, having spent the last 5 years crying over Corbyn and shitting all over anything remotely connected to Labour.
The left/right political spectrum is as good as dead, or at least should be. First off, as frequently evidenced by posters on this forum, it's largely misunderstood. Secondly, the likes of Jones, Corbyn, Galloway, McDonnell etc would have a huge amount in common with the likes of Farage. Brexit, Russia, China, Ukraine, NATO, protectionism etc. Farage just doesn't like brown people.
Quote from: square_ball on July 04, 2024, 11:41:01 PMQuote from: gallsman on July 04, 2024, 11:19:42 PMLabour hold in Sunderland not the news. Nearly 12k for Reform is scary.
And again in the 2nd result in. They are going to get a fairly big % of the vote.
Up north maybe, but less so as the counts head southwards.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 12:00:03 AMLagan Valley looking very likely Alliance according to BBC.
But Easton likely to win North Down.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 05, 2024, 12:05:40 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 12:00:03 AMLagan Valley looking very likely Alliance according to BBC.
But Easton likely to win North Down.
Christ he has the personality of a cardboard box.
And chat of him nominating Jonathan Bell if he does pick it up FFS.
Feel sorry for Farry if he loses. Always comes across as sincere and well meaning.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 05, 2024, 12:05:40 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 12:00:03 AMLagan Valley looking very likely Alliance according to BBC.
But Easton likely to win North Down.
Not sure what it is that stopped Collins from getting elected... 😳
https://x.com/davidsteen4/status/1809001395019760118?s=48&t=phQ2HHkWD0UVsLqr_FKpag
Pat cullen struggling in fermanagh south tyrone.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 01:14:22 AMPat cullen struggling in fermanagh south tyrone.
Can trust you's Tyronies with nothing
Was Carla Lockhart walking around with tissue up her nose?
Grim Allister pushing Junior in North Antrim.
Mark Francois the only Conservative elected, now favourite to be leader!
DUP conceding Lagan Valley.
Huge.
George Galloway gone
Potential recount in East Belfast
Reform win Ashfield
Fermanagh South-Tyrone
- earlier Diana Armstrong seemed very confident of winning the seat for UUP
- now it seems that Pat Cullen, SF, is around 2000 ahead.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on July 05, 2024, 03:19:06 AMFermanagh South-Tyrone
- earlier Diana Armstrong seemed very confident of winning the seat for UUP
- now it seems that Pat Cullen, SF, is around 2000 ahead.
Fingers crossed. I never understand how with demographic change over the years it's still remains so tight. Looks like DUP having a nightmare SF may regret not putting a bit more effort into some of those long shot seats
Luhid talk has long on 43.8 and Robinson on 43.3 after 90% of the votes counted :o
Buckley losing not a bad result. Horrible, smug c*nt
Quote from: Ghost on July 05, 2024, 03:26:06 AMBuckley losing not a bad result. Horrible, smug c*nt
Biggest shock was when he said he was 32 years of age 😳
Corbyn back as an independent
buckley some boy is bout to cry over the country wtf lad needs sleep
Buckley fella is fake through and through
Did he congratulate Sorcha during that tirade? I don't think he did.
Nearly 4am, wtf is taking so long with the counting, esp when turnout is down
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 03:37:34 AMDid he congratulate Sorcha during that tirade? I don't think he did.
He did wish her well.
She has now been formally declared.
Why is he talking again!
this is some soap opera 🤣
Corbyn elected as independent
So Carla had nothing to worry about FFS.
Robinson looks like winning East Belfast. A possible great night of results looking more meh all of a sudden
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 05, 2024, 03:58:47 AMSo Carla had nothing to worry about FFS.
As bad as Buckley
Jim Allister hardly an ideal candidate but if Paisley lost it would be hilarious.
Still think he'll edge it though.
Quote from: Ghost on July 05, 2024, 04:21:04 AMJim Allister hardly an ideal candidate but if Paisley lost it would be hilarious.
Still think he'll edge it though.
I think Jim has it
Jim Allister wins North Antrim by around 400
SF look to have won FST comfortably.
Gregory Campbell East Derry at risk a previous majority of 9k reduced to a mere 200 - recount possible
What an egotistical p***k Jim Allister is
Pretty ungracious speech by Diana Armstrong. Thought she was better than that.
Quote from: Pub Bore on July 05, 2024, 05:31:53 AMPretty ungracious speech by Diana Armstrong. Thought she was better than that.
A bit cocky early on
Eastwood wins in Foyle but his majority cut from 17,000 to 4,500. Share of vote down by 17%.
We've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
Ian Og gone lol
I don't know what made the SDLP think they'd spring a surprise win in South Down... 9000 votes between SF and them and they were giving it the big one that it could be a couple of hundred votes before boxes were counted.
They really need to look at putting up palatable candidates ala Hanna/O'Toole
Types
Full recount in East Derry. SF about 300 votes behind DUP but apparently they've found more votes!
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 05, 2024, 06:56:46 AMI don't know what made the SDLP think they'd spring a surprise win in South Down... 9000 votes between SF and them and they were giving it the big one that it could be a couple of hundred votes before boxes were counted.
They really need to look at putting up palatable candidates ala Hanna/O'Toole
Types
He's too busy holding the executive to account to be standing in general elections
No more grifting from Junior.
Labour got 34 percent of the vote, the conservatives goet 23 percent. It looks like reform won it for labour.
Quote from: Pub Bore on July 05, 2024, 06:58:02 AMFull recount in East Derry. SF about 300 votes behind DUP but apparently they've found more votes!
Has Gregory's curry yoghurt gone sour for him?
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 05, 2024, 07:20:12 AMQuote from: Pub Bore on July 05, 2024, 06:58:02 AMFull recount in East Derry. SF about 300 votes behind DUP but apparently they've found more votes!
Has Gregory's curry yoghurt gone sour for him?
I hope it has
While I don't like the TUV being in it's hilarious that Paisley is not. Did nothing for anyone and it finally caught up on him. Poor election for Alliance and no great for the DUP either.
It would seem now that SF rule the roost in NI in terms of councils, Stormount and now MPs.
To an extent you could argue that the councillors and MLAs do a bit and you would see them in the local media. But what have the MPs done / will do over the next 4 years? A lot of their MPs have been re-elected and I would say in the lead up to the election I had not come across them much in the past 4 years. The likes of John Finucane has a bit of a profile and while obviously he is not over in Westminster he is not sitting in the house scratching what with a legal practice to run and all that. If you had asked me to name others I would struggle and indeed as they keep a low profile what do they actually do other than lift the big ££££ and claim every expense going? Mind you I did see in the Ulster Herald a few weeks ago your woman in West Tyrone, cant remember her name, taking credit for Gortin Main Street getting resurfaced.....wonder what her objectives are for the next 4 years, fixing potholes in Plumbridge and Greencastle?
Fair play to Pat Cullen and her victory, a shame she will be sitting on the sidelines and not being allowed to do anything. Not saying she could work miracles but it would have been good to see her in Parliament raising the issues of the NHS in NI at a national level. People in England think the NHS is bad over there, here it is off the charts.
By the way great to see Ian Og getting the heave ho, there will not be to many holidays now.
Unionism looks very split too.
Quote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
They already (sort of) have one in Upper Bann, TUV don't stand. Lockhart hoovers up their votes
Flegory wina the recount by less than 200.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 05, 2024, 07:19:37 AMLabour got 34 percent of the vote, the conservatives goet 23 percent. It looks like reform won it for labour.
34% of the vote gets nearly 60% of the seats😲
Democracy me arse.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 07:24:55 AMWhile I don't like the TUV being in it's hilarious that Paisley is not. Did nothing for anyone and it finally caught up on him. Poor election for Alliance and no great for the DUP either.
Exactly my feelings too. Allister is a **** but he gets stuck in whereas Paisley has been living off his Da's name and filling his coffers.
Quote from: LC on July 05, 2024, 07:46:12 AMIt would seem now that SF rule the roost in NI in terms of councils, Stormount and now MPs.
To an extent you could argue that the councillors and MLAs do a bit and you would see them in the local media. But what have the MPs done / will do over the next 4 years? A lot of their MPs have been re-elected and I would say in the lead up to the election I had not come across them much in the past 4 years. The likes of John Finucane has a bit of a profile and while obviously he is not over in Westminster he is not sitting in the house scratching what with a legal practice to run and all that. If you had asked me to name others I would struggle and indeed as they keep a low profile what do they actually do other than lift the big ££££ and claim every expense going? Mind you I did see in the Ulster Herald a few weeks ago your woman in West Tyrone, cant remember her name, taking credit for Gortin Main Street getting resurfaced.....wonder what her objectives are for the next 4 years, fixing potholes in Plumbridge and Greencastle?
Fair play to Pat Cullen and her victory, a shame she will be sitting on the sidelines and not being allowed to do anything. Not saying she could work miracles but it would have been good to see her in Parliament raising the issues of the NHS in NI at a national level. People in England think the NHS is bad over there, here it is off the charts.
By the way great to see Ian Og getting the heave ho, there will not be to many holidays now.
And the people who voted for her knew the SF policy regarding westminister and were still happy to vote for her and the other 6 SF MP's.
Quote from: Pub Bore on July 05, 2024, 05:31:53 AMPretty ungracious speech by Diana Armstrong. Thought she was better than that.
Really ?
Based on what.
She has form in this regard
Gregory shockingly not overly humble in his interview with GMU.
Quote from: LC on July 05, 2024, 07:46:12 AMIt would seem now that SF rule the roost in NI in terms of councils, Stormount and now MPs.
To an extent you could argue that the councillors and MLAs do a bit and you would see them in the local media. But what have the MPs done / will do over the next 4 years? A lot of their MPs have been re-elected and I would say in the lead up to the election I had not come across them much in the past 4 years. The likes of John Finucane has a bit of a profile and while obviously he is not over in Westminster he is not sitting in the house scratching what with a legal practice to run and all that. If you had asked me to name others I would struggle and indeed as they keep a low profile what do they actually do other than lift the big ££££ and claim every expense going? Mind you I did see in the Ulster Herald a few weeks ago your woman in West Tyrone, cant remember her name, taking credit for Gortin Main Street getting resurfaced.....wonder what her objectives are for the next 4 years, fixing potholes in Plumbridge and Greencastle?
Fair play to Pat Cullen and her victory, a shame she will be sitting on the sidelines and not being allowed to do anything. Not saying she could work miracles but it would have been good to see her in Parliament raising the issues of the NHS in NI at a national level. People in England think the NHS is bad over there, here it is off the charts.
By the way great to see Ian Og getting the heave ho, there will not be to many holidays now.
Quite the opposite. Ian Og will be on holiday now flat out spending the thousands he fleeced from the tax payer tha last 14 years.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 05, 2024, 08:15:52 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 07:24:55 AMWhile I don't like the TUV being in it's hilarious that Paisley is not. Did nothing for anyone and it finally caught up on him. Poor election for Alliance and no great for the DUP either.
Exactly my feelings too. Allister is a **** but he gets stuck in whereas Paisley has been living off his Da's name and filling his coffers.
54 years a Paisley has been in that seat. Allister a disturbingly bitter man but t least he might make some effort unlike Paisley like you say.
Quote from: LC on July 05, 2024, 07:46:12 AMIt would seem now that SF rule the roost in NI in terms of councils, Stormount and now MPs.
To an extent you could argue that the councillors and MLAs do a bit and you would see them in the local media. But what have the MPs done / will do over the next 4 years? A lot of their MPs have been re-elected and I would say in the lead up to the election I had not come across them much in the past 4 years. The likes of John Finucane has a bit of a profile and while obviously he is not over in Westminster he is not sitting in the house scratching what with a legal practice to run and all that. If you had asked me to name others I would struggle and indeed as they keep a low profile what do they actually do other than lift the big ££££ and claim every expense going? Mind you I did see in the Ulster Herald a few weeks ago your woman in West Tyrone, cant remember her name, taking credit for Gortin Main Street getting resurfaced.....wonder what her objectives are for the next 4 years, fixing potholes in Plumbridge and Greencastle?
Fair play to Pat Cullen and her victory, a shame she will be sitting on the sidelines and not being allowed to do anything. Not saying she could work miracles but it would have been good to see her in Parliament raising the issues of the NHS in NI at a national level. People in England think the NHS is bad over there, here it is off the charts.
By the way great to see Ian Og getting the heave ho, there will not be to many holidays now.
guess youre not a SF fan? "your woman". Quite disrespectful
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on July 05, 2024, 07:08:43 AMNo more grifting from Junior.
The same boy will still be on the grifting scene. He'll latch onto Farage's coat tails on the mainland now I'd say.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 08:21:16 AM54 years a Paisley has been in that seat. Allister a disturbingly bitter man but t least he might make some effort unlike Paisley like you say.
Paisley and Dodds gone and Gregory and Sammy with a combined majority of 1600 odd. The days of the DUP being able to rely on big personalities to carry them over the line throughout the 6C are over and I'm pretty sure they don't have the brains in the party to do it any other way. Once Wilson and Campbell are gone, Robinson, Lokckhart and Jim f**king Shannon to be their "stars"? They're fucked.
Yep they are on their way out. Question is who's going to replace them I guess.
(Yeah I was very glad to see Corbyn in)
Quote from: Pub Bore on July 05, 2024, 05:34:41 AMEastwood wins in Foyle but his majority cut from 17,000 to 4,500. Share of vote down by 17%.
We'll get him out next time
Quote from: Itchy on July 05, 2024, 08:16:16 AMQuote from: LC on July 05, 2024, 07:46:12 AMIt would seem now that SF rule the roost in NI in terms of councils, Stormount and now MPs.
To an extent you could argue that the councillors and MLAs do a bit and you would see them in the local media. But what have the MPs done / will do over the next 4 years? A lot of their MPs have been re-elected and I would say in the lead up to the election I had not come across them much in the past 4 years. The likes of John Finucane has a bit of a profile and while obviously he is not over in Westminster he is not sitting in the house scratching what with a legal practice to run and all that. If you had asked me to name others I would struggle and indeed as they keep a low profile what do they actually do other than lift the big ££££ and claim every expense going? Mind you I did see in the Ulster Herald a few weeks ago your woman in West Tyrone, cant remember her name, taking credit for Gortin Main Street getting resurfaced.....wonder what her objectives are for the next 4 years, fixing potholes in Plumbridge and Greencastle?
Fair play to Pat Cullen and her victory, a shame she will be sitting on the sidelines and not being allowed to do anything. Not saying she could work miracles but it would have been good to see her in Parliament raising the issues of the NHS in NI at a national level. People in England think the NHS is bad over there, here it is off the charts.
By the way great to see Ian Og getting the heave ho, there will not be to many holidays now.
And the people who voted for her knew the SF policy regarding westminister and were still happy to vote for her and the other 6 SF MP's.
only thing they don't do is enter parliament. Which gets even less attention than wee Sheamy Byson standing on a bin talking shite. The Brit MP's clear out
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 08:42:00 AMQuote from: Pub Bore on July 05, 2024, 05:34:41 AMEastwood wins in Foyle but his majority cut from 17,000 to 4,500. Share of vote down by 17%.
We'll get him out next time
They say a week is a long time in politics, 5 years could throw up some change in that area
I'd say the SDLP would need to do something special to entice the new generation of voters in that area, but can't see it.
Could SF end up with 10 MP's next time or will the unionists get round the table and have a unionist front?
There's 8 unionist MPs in total so you would have thought this was a unionist front? Alliance only got 1 seat which must be hugely disappointing to them.
9 nationalist 8 unionist and 1 alliance. Is that the correct reading of it?
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 08:51:51 AMThere's 8 unionist MPs in total so you would have thought this was a unionist front? Alliance only got 1 seat which must be hugely disappointing to them.
9 nationalist 8 unionist and 1 alliance. Is that the correct reading of it?
In fairness think Alliance always going to get it tight in East Belfast and North Down. Happy for Eastwood in Lagan Valley
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 08:51:51 AMThere's 8 unionist MPs in total so you would have thought this was a unionist front? Alliance only got 1 seat which must be hugely disappointing to them.
9 nationalist 8 unionist and 1 alliance. Is that the correct reading of it?
If the unionists only put one unionist candidate in each area, would that not change the numbers? It will really be backs to the walls for them when they see the fragmentation of the various unionists parties..
Having unionists independence, TUV, DUP and UUP parties, while mainly having just two nationalist/republican parties really makes a difference?
Quote from: tintin25 on July 05, 2024, 08:53:45 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 08:51:51 AMThere's 8 unionist MPs in total so you would have thought this was a unionist front? Alliance only got 1 seat which must be hugely disappointing to them.
9 nationalist 8 unionist and 1 alliance. Is that the correct reading of it?
In fairness think Alliance always going to get it tight in East Belfast and North Down. Happy for Eastwood in Lagan Valley
Eastwood just another one looking for the higher MP salary
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 05, 2024, 08:57:31 AMQuote from: tintin25 on July 05, 2024, 08:53:45 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 08:51:51 AMThere's 8 unionist MPs in total so you would have thought this was a unionist front? Alliance only got 1 seat which must be hugely disappointing to them.
9 nationalist 8 unionist and 1 alliance. Is that the correct reading of it?
In fairness think Alliance always going to get it tight in East Belfast and North Down. Happy for Eastwood in Lagan Valley
Eastwood just another one looking for the higher MP salary
What makes you say that? Would you rather some of the other candidates in LV got in?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2024, 08:56:20 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 08:51:51 AMThere's 8 unionist MPs in total so you would have thought this was a unionist front? Alliance only got 1 seat which must be hugely disappointing to them.
9 nationalist 8 unionist and 1 alliance. Is that the correct reading of it?
If the unionists only put one unionist candidate in each area, would that not change the numbers? It will really be backs to the walls for them when they see the fragmentation of the various unionists parties..
Having unionists independence, TUV, DUP and UUP parties, while mainly having just two nationalist/republican parties really makes a difference?
I am not sure if it does. I think if there weren't so many unionist parties there'd just be larger majorities in a lot of these areas. Though I do wonder on Lagan Valley.
A lot of these parties struggling and won't be doing pacts any time soon I imagine. UUP fighting to survive with 1 MP, DUp floundering and TUV only 1 MP. I couldn't see many pacts any time soon. It's not like SDLP / SF have many anyway.
While nationalism did well to solidify NB and FST, looks like nationalist vote is at 40% if you include Aontu and PBF, whereas Unionism closer to 44%. Surprising considering a poor night for DUP and was hoping like locals it would exceed the Unionist vote. But perhaps reflective that it only needed the extra effort in the two marginal.
Quote from: weareros on July 05, 2024, 09:09:24 AMWhile nationalism did well to solidify NB and FST, looks like nationalist vote is at 40% if you include Aontu and PBF, whereas Unionism closer to 44%. Surprising considering a poor night for DUP and was hoping like locals it would exceed the Unionist vote. But perhaps reflective that it only needed the extra effort in the two marginal.
Alliance probably getting a lot of the green vote in places SF/SDLP had no hope. NB and FST looking very safe.
Quote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 05, 2024, 08:15:52 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 07:24:55 AMWhile I don't like the TUV being in it's hilarious that Paisley is not. Did nothing for anyone and it finally caught up on him. Poor election for Alliance and no great for the DUP either.
Exactly my feelings too. Allister is a **** but he gets stuck in whereas Paisley has been living off his Da's name and filling his coffers.
Ion Óg could do with a holiday!
One interesting thing was the BBC starting a narrative that SF hadn't got the vote out in FST. It was yer man Julian based on a couple of boxes open from around Dungannon. Mark Carruthers and Deirdre "Aren't I gorgeous" Heenan latched on to it and started criticising SF for parachuting a "celebrity candidate" into FST and that SF's focus had been too much on the South. Very strange.
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
Could you explain why you think this? (I'm not criticising your opinion - I'm interested in how you formed it.)
Quote from: Pub Bore on July 05, 2024, 09:19:37 AMOne interesting thing was the BBC starting a narrative that SF hadn't got the vote out in FST. It was yer man Julian based on a couple of boxes open from around Dungannon. Mark Carruthers and Deirdre "Aren't I gorgeous" Heenan latched on to it and started criticising SF for parachuting a "celebrity candidate" into FST and that SF's focus had been too much on the South. Very strange.
Yeah, Fowler was literally bouncing with excitement making that announcement early doos and the studio thn latching on to it.
They interviewed he 5 mins later, and by her chat, tou'd thought she'd won it by a landslide.
It's all about demographics now.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 09:20:25 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
Could you explain why you think this? (I'm not criticising your opinion - I'm interested in how you formed it.)
Hanna got a free run in SB & MD but the SDLP (by Eastwood's arrogance) didn't stand aside anywhere.
They stood in LV, East Derry and FST even (ffs).
As I say, a joke.
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
But you said in another thread no one cares about Westminster so what difference does it make if SF get one more MP there?
And for what its worth I agree with you regarding Westminster is an irrelevance over here in the grand scheme of things. MLA and local council elections are far more important in my eyes.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 09:20:25 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
Could you explain why you think this? (I'm not criticising your opinion - I'm interested in how you formed it.)
I don't think it's right. If SDLP stepped aside, TUV and UUP could follow. Their combined vote still exceeded Hunter by a few thousand. It's getting close and could go to SF next election. It's debatable whether it's easier won with a pact or a every party for themselves.
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:27:53 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 09:20:25 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
Could you explain why you think this? (I'm not criticising your opinion - I'm interested in how you formed it.)
Hanna got a free run in SB & MD but the SDLP (by Eastwood's arrogance) didn't stand aside anywhere.
They stood in LV, East Derry and FST even (ffs).
As I say, a joke.
Quit your yapping. Democracy is democracy. Standing candidates is not letting anyone down.
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
TBF if SDLP didn't stand maybe TUV/UUP wouldnt and theyve newr 8k between them.
If SF had got Aontu's 1k they'd have won it.
100% on your first 2 sentences though!
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:27:53 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 09:20:25 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
Could you explain why you think this? (I'm not criticising your opinion - I'm interested in how you formed it.)
Hanna got a free run in SB & MD but the SDLP (by Eastwood's arrogance) didn't stand aside anywhere.
They stood in LV, East Derry and FST even (ffs).
As I say, a joke.
A joke is right.
SF are quick to cry foul when unionists form pacts or one of them stands aside in marginal constituencies. See Elliott winning FST in 2015.
You have no right to anybody's vote. You have to earn it.
I wouldn't agree with that at all. SF stood aside in one place so SDLP should stand aside in 3... I am not sure how that stacks up?
I would agree on Eastwood's arrogance but I don't think the SDLP should stand aside just because you don't like it...
Quote from: square_ball on July 05, 2024, 09:29:48 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
But you said in another thread no one cares about Westminster so what difference does it make if SF get one more MP there?
And for what its worth I agree with you regarding Westminster is an irrelevance over here in the grand scheme of things. MLA and local council elections are far more important in my eyes.
Fair point. I stand over that re: Westminister.
What I'm saying SDLP didn't stand aside anywhere.
Going by the age profile of SFs Mps now they're no longer using it as a retirement home, Paul Maskey must be the oldest now, still young by political standards, and a couple of them are fairly big hitters in the party
Quote from: weareros on July 05, 2024, 09:30:36 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 09:20:25 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
Could you explain why you think this? (I'm not criticising your opinion - I'm interested in how you formed it.)
I don't think it's right. If SDLP stepped aside, TUV and UUP could follow. Their combined vote still exceeded Hunter by a few thousand. It's getting close and could go to SF next election. It's debatable whether it's easier won with a pact or a every party for themselves.
The TUV did step aside in more than one area. Did they stand in UB or FST?
SDLP stood in FST where a combined unionist candidate only got beat by 4 and 58 votes etc. over this past few campaigns.
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:49:23 AMQuote from: weareros on July 05, 2024, 09:30:36 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 09:20:25 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
Could you explain why you think this? (I'm not criticising your opinion - I'm interested in how you formed it.)
I don't think it's right. If SDLP stepped aside, TUV and UUP could follow. Their combined vote still exceeded Hunter by a few thousand. It's getting close and could go to SF next election. It's debatable whether it's easier won with a pact or a every party for themselves.
The TUV did step aside in more than one area. Did they stand in UB or FST?
SDLP stood in FST where a combined unionist candidate only got beat by 4 and 58 votes etc. over this past few campaigns.
Madness SDLP standing in FST. Not sure what they thought they'd gain there.
But no complaints elsewhere
They've stood in FST in every election since the Anti H-Block elections. Madness would be changing things to satisfy a few twats on the internet who think engaging in democracy is "letting down nationalists".
You can't reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount either. Yous are as bad as Bryson.
Quote from: Truthsayer on July 05, 2024, 10:07:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:05:24 AMYou can't reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount either. Yous are as bad as Bryson.
Don't know if that's reply to me.. maybe not... but unfortunately it is for the most part a sectarian headcount and pacts tend to compound that
Nah moreau the posts above you criticising the SDLP.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 09:37:13 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:15:28 AMQuote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 06:07:29 AMWe've seen unionist pacts in North Belfast, mid ulster and Fermanagh/ South Tyrone which have failed repeatedly, they're going to need pacts for Upper Bann and East Derry next time...
SDLP have let the nationalist people down badly.
Eastwood is a clown.
Imagine Campbell getting the boot in East Derry.
TBF if SDLP didn't stand maybe TUV/UUP wouldnt and theyve newr 8k between them.
If SF had got Aontu's 1k they'd have won it.
100% on your first 2 sentences though!
But those 1k people had the chance to vote SF and didn't. They voted against them, most likely on a pro life ticket.
You can't assume any these people row in behind SF just because they are nationalists.
It's so frustrating that Campbell escapes by a few votes. He won't stand next time so we will never have the satisfaction of seeing him get the boot. It's even crazier to think he wins by less than 200 votes yet over 1000 nationalists gave brolly a vote. I don't know if any of you caught her interview on TalkBack last week but it was atrocious, embarrassingly bad
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:05:24 AMYou can't reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount either. Yous are as bad as Bryson.
Here we go...it's sectarian that SF stand aside for progressive candiates in LV, EB and SB & MD etc? Is it?
No one mentioned religion...until a few people above mentioned it. Whay are they bringing religion into it?
Strange - shows up more about them than me.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:05:24 AMYou can't reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount either. Yous are as bad as Bryson.
If only there were actual policies to debate!
Bit of a strange one across the water, Labour vote really didn't go up that much (1.6%) from the Corbyn era and re-enforces my point that Labour didn't win this, the Tory's lost it in a big way.
Aside from that Farage, 50p Lee and Allister in Parliament is some mess for everyone.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 09:44:53 AMI wouldn't agree with that at all. SF stood aside in one place so SDLP should stand aside in 3... I am not sure how that stacks up?
McDonnell won South Belfast twice with a SF candidate running against him and Hanna won last time out with a 16k+ majority over Pengelly and this time with 12k over Alliance. She'd still win it handily enough even if SF stood.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 05, 2024, 10:17:26 AMIt's so frustrating that Campbell escapes by a few votes. He won't stand next time so we will never have the satisfaction of seeing him get the boot. It's even crazier to think he wins by less than 200 votes yet over 1000 nationalists gave brolly a vote. I don't know if any of you caught her interview on TalkBack last week but it was atrocious, embarrassingly bad
There are alot of pro life nationalists about. They were ignored by SF and it has cost them an 8th seat.
So the SDLP don't do pacts?
Answer me this.
Did the SDLP stand aside in NB at the last WM election?
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 10:20:03 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:05:24 AMYou can't reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount either. Yous are as bad as Bryson.
Here we go...it's sectarian that SF stand aside for progressive candiates in LV, EB and SB & MD etc? Is it?
No one mentioned religion...until a few people above mentioned it. Whay are they bringing religion into it?
Strange - shows up more about them than me.
Yes. It is a keep themmuns out mentality also shared by elements of hardline Loyalism.
Religion? Eh?? Sectarianism does not have to be about religion, so I have no idea where religion comes into it.
Quote from: gallsman on July 05, 2024, 10:20:21 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 09:44:53 AMI wouldn't agree with that at all. SF stood aside in one place so SDLP should stand aside in 3... I am not sure how that stacks up?
McDonnell won South Belfast twice with a SF candidate running against him and Hanna won last time out with a 16k+ majority over Pengelly and this time with 12k over Alliance. She'd still win it handily enough even if SF stood.
Yep.
Right, Starmer......
Troubles Legacy Bill
Will he go back on his word?
Looks like Reform won Labour the election moreso than Labour doing anything great.
The Tory scum still behind the big black door.
Probably all going around knicking the lightbulbs, bog rolls and the batteries out of the remote controls
Well , they've plundered everything else...
Shower of gangsters
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:26:11 AMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 05, 2024, 10:17:26 AMIt's so frustrating that Campbell escapes by a few votes. He won't stand next time so we will never have the satisfaction of seeing him get the boot. It's even crazier to think he wins by less than 200 votes yet over 1000 nationalists gave brolly a vote. I don't know if any of you caught her interview on TalkBack last week but it was atrocious, embarrassingly bad
There are alot of pro life nationalists about. They were ignored by SF and it has cost them an 8th seat.
No, there's not. Aontú's performance was brutal yesterday. 1% of the vote and down 0.2% in overall terms.
PBP got more votes than them and they only stood in a few areas.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:30:39 AMYes. It is a keep themmuns out mentality also shared by elements of hardline Loyalism.
Religion? Eh?? Sectarianism does not have to be about religion, so I have no idea where religion comes into it.
I don't know how many times I have to say this, but those who throw out the "sectarian headcount" line are talking through their hoop.
Having a view on the constitutional position of this place isn't sectarian. It's legitimate. Wanting as many political representatives as possible to be elected who best represesnt your constitutional preference also isn't sectarian. It's legitimate. Calling it sectarian is the laziest of lazy, cliched, nonsense soundbites.
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 10:35:26 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:26:11 AMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 05, 2024, 10:17:26 AMIt's so frustrating that Campbell escapes by a few votes. He won't stand next time so we will never have the satisfaction of seeing him get the boot. It's even crazier to think he wins by less than 200 votes yet over 1000 nationalists gave brolly a vote. I don't know if any of you caught her interview on TalkBack last week but it was atrocious, embarrassingly bad
There are alot of pro life nationalists about. They were ignored by SF and it has cost them an 8th seat.
No, there's not. Aontú's performance was brutal yesterday. 1% of the vote and down 0.2% in overall terms.
PBP got more votes than them and they only stood in a few areas.
There are a lot but it's probably not that massive an issue that they'd bother voting for no hopers instead of SF/SDLP/Alliance.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 10:34:05 AMLooks like Reform won Labour the election moreso than Labour doing anything great.
Labour will also have bled a not inconsiderable number of votes to Reform but will have picked them up elsewhere from Tories.
There's an element of Labour having it handed to them on a platter but there's no way to spin it as anything other than total victory. It'll keep Starmer on his toes.
You'd be hopeful that the Reform vote won't stand the test of time. Tories will move to the right and take some of them back. Higher profile for Farage, Tice and 30p Lee etc
should be exposed even more so for the goons they are.
Quote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:35:35 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:30:39 AMYes. It is a keep themmuns out mentality also shared by elements of hardline Loyalism.
Religion? Eh?? Sectarianism does not have to be about religion, so I have no idea where religion comes into it.
I don't know how many times I have to say this, but those who throw out the "sectarian headcount" line are talking through their hoop.
Having a view on the constitutional position of this place isn't sectarian. It's legitimate. Wanting as many political representatives as possible to be elected who best represesnt your constitutional preference also isn't sectarian. It's legitimate. Calling it sectarian is the laziest of lazy, cliched, nonsense soundbites.
No I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 10:35:26 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:26:11 AMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 05, 2024, 10:17:26 AMIt's so frustrating that Campbell escapes by a few votes. He won't stand next time so we will never have the satisfaction of seeing him get the boot. It's even crazier to think he wins by less than 200 votes yet over 1000 nationalists gave brolly a vote. I don't know if any of you caught her interview on TalkBack last week but it was atrocious, embarrassingly bad
There are alot of pro life nationalists about. They were ignored by SF and it has cost them an 8th seat.
No, there's not. Aontú's performance was brutal yesterday. 1% of the vote and down 0.2% in overall terms.
PBP got more votes than them and they only stood in a few areas.
Probably right enough but there were enough in East Derry.
Quote from: Christmas Lights on July 05, 2024, 09:01:41 AMQuote from: Saffrongael on July 05, 2024, 08:57:31 AMQuote from: tintin25 on July 05, 2024, 08:53:45 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 08:51:51 AMThere's 8 unionist MPs in total so you would have thought this was a unionist front? Alliance only got 1 seat which must be hugely disappointing to them.
9 nationalist 8 unionist and 1 alliance. Is that the correct reading of it?
In fairness think Alliance always going to get it tight in East Belfast and North Down. Happy for Eastwood in Lagan Valley
Eastwood just another one looking for the higher MP salary
What makes you say that? Would you rather some of the other candidates in LV got in?
That's two different, unrelated things, I could care less who gets in as none of them have any clout or influence in WM.
Eastwood the same as Swann, Nicholl in South Belfast & Claire Hanna previously - sitting MLAs that just want to get to Westminster for the vastly superior salary & expenses.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:26:11 AMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 05, 2024, 10:17:26 AMIt's so frustrating that Campbell escapes by a few votes. He won't stand next time so we will never have the satisfaction of seeing him get the boot. It's even crazier to think he wins by less than 200 votes yet over 1000 nationalists gave brolly a vote. I don't know if any of you caught her interview on TalkBack last week but it was atrocious, embarrassingly bad
There are alot of pro life nationalists about. They were ignored by SF and it has cost them an 8th seat.
Not really, nobody could have predicted how close East Derry was.
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 05, 2024, 10:46:23 AMQuote from: Christmas Lights on July 05, 2024, 09:01:41 AMQuote from: Saffrongael on July 05, 2024, 08:57:31 AMQuote from: tintin25 on July 05, 2024, 08:53:45 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 08:51:51 AMThere's 8 unionist MPs in total so you would have thought this was a unionist front? Alliance only got 1 seat which must be hugely disappointing to them.
9 nationalist 8 unionist and 1 alliance. Is that the correct reading of it?
In fairness think Alliance always going to get it tight in East Belfast and North Down. Happy for Eastwood in Lagan Valley
Eastwood just another one looking for the higher MP salary
What makes you say that? Would you rather some of the other candidates in LV got in?
That's two different, unrelated things, I could care less who gets in as none of them have any clout or influence in WM.
Eastwood the same as Swann, Nicholl in South Belfast & Claire Hanna previously - sitting MLAs that just want to get to Westminster for the vastly superior salary & expenses.
On what basis have you formed that conclusion??
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 05, 2024, 10:32:16 AMRight, Starmer......
Troubles Legacy Bill
Will he go back
on his word?
If you think anything from an NI perspective is a priority for Starmer you are in for a disappointment.
Suffice to say like the Tories Labour will not give 2 Fs about about this place.
Only visitor I see coming from across the pond will be Farage to see his new bestie Jimbo, no doubt Jim will give him a guided tour of all the lovely loyalist sh@t holes in North Antrim.
The cherry on top of this election had to be the odious George Galloway losing his seat.
He didn't even have the dignity or humility to attend the count and scurried off to lick his huge wounded ego.
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 05, 2024, 10:46:23 AMQuote from: Christmas Lights on July 05, 2024, 09:01:41 AMQuote from: Saffrongael on July 05, 2024, 08:57:31 AMQuote from: tintin25 on July 05, 2024, 08:53:45 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 08:51:51 AMThere's 8 unionist MPs in total so you would have thought this was a unionist front? Alliance only got 1 seat which must be hugely disappointing to them.
9 nationalist 8 unionist and 1 alliance. Is that the correct reading of it?
In fairness think Alliance always going to get it tight in East Belfast and North Down. Happy for Eastwood in Lagan Valley
Eastwood just another one looking for the higher MP salary
What makes you say that? Would you rather some of the other candidates in LV got in?
That's two different, unrelated things, I could care less who gets in as none of them have any clout or influence in WM.
Eastwood the same as Swann, Nicholl in South Belfast & Claire Hanna previously - sitting MLAs that just want to get to Westminster for the vastly superior salary & expenses.
thats a bold statement
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 05, 2024, 10:46:23 AMQuote from: Christmas Lights on July 05, 2024, 09:01:41 AMQuote from: Saffrongael on July 05, 2024, 08:57:31 AMQuote from: tintin25 on July 05, 2024, 08:53:45 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 08:51:51 AMThere's 8 unionist MPs in total so you would have thought this was a unionist front? Alliance only got 1 seat which must be hugely disappointing to them.
9 nationalist 8 unionist and 1 alliance. Is that the correct reading of it?
In fairness think Alliance always going to get it tight in East Belfast and North Down. Happy for Eastwood in Lagan Valley
Eastwood just another one looking for the higher MP salary
What makes you say that? Would you rather some of the other candidates in LV got in?
That's two different, unrelated things, I could care less who gets in as none of them have any clout or influence in WM.
Eastwood the same as Swann, Nicholl in South Belfast & Claire Hanna previously - sitting MLAs that just want to get to Westminster for the vastly superior salary & expenses.
Sure why wouldn't they?
Pete Byrne (SDLP candidate in Newry/South Armagh) who got his arse kicked came out and said you could put a Sinn Fein sticker on a donkey and people would vote for it here.
Gracious in defeat as always and respectful to his opponent. No wonder him and Colum get on so well
Quote from: Father Murphy on July 05, 2024, 11:03:13 AMThe cherry on top of this election had to be the odious George Galloway losing his seat.
He didn't even have the dignity or humility to attend the count and scurried off to lick his huge wounded ego.
Seems no length since he won the seat, must have made a great impression on the locals in his short time.
Quote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:55:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
If you really think this you are deluded.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:39 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:55:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
If you really think this you are deluded.
OK. Everyone is a big sectarian bigot except you. I thought I always voted for republican candidates because they represent my republican/constitutional position, but alas, it turns out it's because I just hate prods. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Classy stuff Ian and son
https://x.com/niamh_journo/status/1809065850780996040 (https://x.com/niamh_journo/status/1809065850780996040)
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:39 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:55:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
If you really think this you are deluded.
What percentage of people attend mass these days? I highly doubt its anywhere near the 40% who voted for Nationalist parties so where are all these sectarian voters coming from? I'm a Republican with absolutely no faith but been boxed off as "Catholic" simply because of the way this place is, I don't know anyone my age who attends mass other than funerals, weddings etc who go out and vote on constitutional lines because it's a legitimate aspiration,nothing to do with the religion they were brought up in, times have changed and you need to move on
Tim Collins having a condescending pop at the parochial oiks of North Down was also pleasing.
Quote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 11:16:48 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:39 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:55:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
If you really think this you are deluded.
OK. Everyone is a big sectarian bigot except you. I thought I always voted for republican candidates because they represent my republican/constitutional position, but alas, it turns out it's because I just hate prods. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Completely misrepresenting what I said, probably deliberately. You are entitled to vote for whoever you want. But if you expect all other candidates from your side to not run just so one of themmuns don't get in, then yes that is a sectarian pact. Continue to deny it if it want. I dont care, I'm sleep deprived and not engaging anymore.
Quote from: Brendan on July 05, 2024, 11:20:13 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:39 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:55:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
If you really think this you are deluded.
What percentage of people attend mass these days? I highly doubt its anywhere near the 40% who voted for Nationalist parties so where are all these sectarian voters coming from? I'm a Republican with absolutely no faith but been boxed off as "Catholic" simply because of the way this place is, I don't know anyone my age who attends mass other than funerals, weddings etc who go out and vote on constitutional lines because it's a legitimate aspiration,nothing to do with the religion they were brought up in, times have changed and you need to move on
Religion has nothing to do with it. I have no idea what mass has to do with anything. Sectarianism is not synomonous with religion.
This 'debate' was starred by a few who stated it was about a sectarian headcount.
I merely stated that some parties stood aside (SF) and other didn't (SDLP) in order to/not to give progressive candiates chance to get elected.
I never mentioned religion. It was brought up by others - a lazy narrative.
The same peope on here who pontificate about the SDLP being very noble in standing in every area and spoof about how that's democracy YET can't answer the questio:
Did the SDLP set aside in NB the last time?
Hyprocites!
Quote from: LC on July 05, 2024, 11:12:20 AMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 05, 2024, 11:03:13 AMThe cherry on top of this election had to be the odious George Galloway losing his seat.
He didn't even have the dignity or humility to attend the count and scurried off to lick his huge wounded ego.
Seems no length since he won the seat, must have made a great impression on the locals in his short time.
Easier to make an impact in a by-election.
I would prefer more cooperation among nationalist parties but there is little point a the unionists would just do the same and have been doing it way more over the years. I'm annoyed with east Derry because I can't stand Campbell. Those who voted for Aontu wasted their vote. I wouldn't be so harsh on the SDLP voters there as they had as many votes as SF last time. It was up to SF themselves to push the numbers game and get more people to vote tactically. They have been so quiet this election almost not even trying which has been frustrating. I'm amazed they got 27/28% of the vote across NI with no effort to be honest
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:27:16 AMThis 'debate' was starred by a few who stated it was about a sectarian headcount.
I merely stated that some parties stood aside (SF) and other didn't (SDLP) in order to/not to give progressive candiates chance to get elected.
I never mentioned religion. It was brought up by others - a lazy narrative.
The same peope on here who pontificate about the SDLP being very noble in standing in every area and spoof about how that's democracy YET can't answer the questio:
Did the SDLP set aside in NB the last time?
Hyprocites!
No, you said they had let down nationalists.
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:27:16 AMThe same peope on here who pontificate about the SDLP being very noble in standing in every area and spoof about how that's democracy YET can't answer the questio:
Did the SDLP set aside in NB the last time?
Hyprocites!
You seem to be confused by the fact that 2024 is not 2019.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:22:16 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 11:16:48 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:39 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:55:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
If you really think this you are deluded.
OK. Everyone is a big sectarian bigot except you. I thought I always voted for republican candidates because they represent my republican/constitutional position, but alas, it turns out it's because I just hate prods. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Completely misrepresenting what I said, probably deliberately. You are entitled to vote for whoever you want. But if you expect all other candidates from your side to not run just so one of themmuns don't get in, then yes that is a sectarian pact. Continue to deny it if it want. I dont care, I'm sleep deprived and not engaging anymore.
Ah now don't go running. What makes a pact sectarian rather than political other than your own cynicism? If I believe in electing as many pro-Irish Unity candidates as I'm pro-Irish Unity, then why is it sectarian to think maybe it might help if pro-unity candidates come to an electoral arrangement to strengthen their chances? Just because you don't like pacts doesn't mean they are sectarian rather than political.
The SDLP being on the ballot does not stop someone voting for another candidate either tactically to try and get someone out or as your preference. Was there even a proposal for SDLP to stand aside in East Derry or any debate on whether Campbell could be ousted.
On a different point with Jim Allister off to Westminster will it make the TUV less effective and less relevant. He will co-opt someone to Stormont with no profile and could be forgotten as an MP like most of our parliamentary representatives.
Quote from: gallsman on July 05, 2024, 11:36:27 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:27:16 AMThe same peope on here who pontificate about the SDLP being very noble in standing in every area and spoof about how that's democracy YET can't answer the questio:
Did the SDLP set aside in NB the last time?
Hyprocites!
You seem to be confused by the fact that 2024 is not 2019.
Ah, ok to do a 'sectarian pact' in 2019 but not ok in 2024.
Lol...stop digging.
Quote from: Father Murphy on July 05, 2024, 11:20:31 AMTim Collins having a condescending pop at the parochial oiks of North Down was also pleasing.
All about 'the hedges and potholes'.
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:50:12 AMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 05, 2024, 11:20:31 AMTim Collins having a condescending pop at the parochial oiks of North Down was also pleasing.
All about 'the hedges and potholes'.
It was car crash stuff. Bit where he said "people from Northern Ireland don't understand these things" as well. Madness.
In other news conservatives received a whopping total of 553 votes from 5 different candidates in the north.
East Derry: Claire Scull 187
West Tyrone: Stephen Lynch 91
Newry & Armagh: Samantha Raynor 83
South Down: Hannah Westropp 46
Strangford: Barry Hetherington 146
I have two questions.
1. Why are these conservatives evening bothering, especially in nationalist dominated area's like WT, N&A and SD?
2. Who the hell is voting for the conservatives in the north?
Quote from: general_lee on July 05, 2024, 10:54:13 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:26:11 AMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 05, 2024, 10:17:26 AMIt's so frustrating that Campbell escapes by a few votes. He won't stand next time so we will never have the satisfaction of seeing him get the boot. It's even crazier to think he wins by less than 200 votes yet over 1000 nationalists gave brolly a vote. I don't know if any of you caught her interview on TalkBack last week but it was atrocious, embarrassingly bad
There are alot of pro life nationalists about. They were ignored by SF and it has cost them an 8th seat.
Not really, nobody could have predicted how close East Derry was.
Rightly so they were ignorned. Are you saying a party with one position should go out and lie to people about that position to get a few votes? That's a ridiculous thing to say as if they did that they would lose more votes on the other side. Those people can vote for the DUP or other dinosaurs if they wish and good luck to them.
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 09:25:19 AMQuote from: Pub Bore on July 05, 2024, 09:19:37 AMOne interesting thing was the BBC starting a narrative that SF hadn't got the vote out in FST. It was yer man Julian based on a couple of boxes open from around Dungannon. Mark Carruthers and Deirdre "Aren't I gorgeous" Heenan latched on to it and started criticising SF for parachuting a "celebrity candidate" into FST and that SF's focus had been too much on the South. Very strange.
Yeah, Fowler was literally bouncing with excitement making that announcement early doos and the studio thn latching on to it.
They interviewed he 5 mins later, and by her chat, tou'd thought she'd won it by a landslide.
It's all about demographics now.
Armstrong taking the BBC's word on the result and basically celebrating the win before all the boxes had been opened, Col Blimp insulting the blue rinse brigade in Bangor for having the audacity not to elect him and his Rolls-Royce, and Ian og finally getting his comeuppance... what a night. f**k the DUP!!!
I stayed up to 4.30 last night. The coverage on BBC NI was a shambles. So after 6 Hours and only 4 results I managed to see only 1 declaration, West Tyrone was missed altogether and the other 2 they missed about half of it. I mean there are 3 podiums to have a camera on how do you screw it up
Why does it feel like the tories are going to do a DUP, and chase the smaller, hardline votes of reform (TUV), while losing the larger middle ground to Labour (Alliance).
Surely it's clear to see where the biggest ground can be made up?
That Collins interview was hilarious. The Alan Partridge of politicians.
Pity Gregory Campbell wasn't ousted.
Quote from: Pub Bore on July 05, 2024, 09:19:37 AMOne interesting thing was the BBC starting a narrative that SF hadn't got the vote out in FST. It was yer man Julian based on a couple of boxes open from around Dungannon. Mark Carruthers and Deirdre "Aren't I gorgeous" Heenan latched on to it and started criticising SF for parachuting a "celebrity candidate" into FST and that SF's focus had been too much on the South. Very strange.
I find that Heenan one a creep. Not too many women have creeped me out in my lifetime but she has - since the 1st moment she came on the airwaves for some reason.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 05, 2024, 01:03:07 PMI stayed up to 4.30 last night. The coverage on BBC NI was a shambles. So after 6 Hours and only 4 results I managed to see only 1 declaration, West Tyrone was missed altogether and the other 2 they missed about half of it. I mean there are 3 podiums to have a camera on how do you screw it up
Funny I was woken up in the wee hours and watched from 3.30 til 9am and I thought it was all great stuff on the BBC. They did a v good job IMO - especially the doll chasing Ian Og through the count centre half a dozen times!
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:47:24 AMQuote from: gallsman on July 05, 2024, 11:36:27 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:27:16 AMThe same peope on here who pontificate about the SDLP being very noble in standing in every area and spoof about how that's democracy YET can't answer the questio:
Did the SDLP set aside in NB the last time?
Hyprocites!
You seem to be confused by the fact that 2024 is not 2019.
Ah, ok to do a 'sectarian pact' in 2019 but not ok in 2024.
Lol...stop digging.
"Lol" I haven't used the word sectarian here once.
You want Cara Hunter's votes up in East Derry? Go and win them.
Farage's first day as an MP off to an interesting start. Non stop heckling at his peers conference.
Pat Bosco McFadden, kind of man that should be fit to progress Irish interests no end
Abstentionism works
f**k the Tories
Quote from: gallsman on July 05, 2024, 01:22:52 PMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:47:24 AMQuote from: gallsman on July 05, 2024, 11:36:27 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:27:16 AMThe same peope on here who pontificate about the SDLP being very noble in standing in every area and spoof about how that's democracy YET can't answer the questio:
Did the SDLP set aside in NB the last time?
Hyprocites!
You seem to be confused by the fact that 2024 is not 2019.
Ah, ok to do a 'sectarian pact' in 2019 but not ok in 2024.
Lol...stop digging.
"Lol" I haven't used the word sectarian here once.
You want Cara Hunter's votes up in East Derry? Go and win them.
Haha. Can't even answer the question re: SDLP in north Belfast the last time.
You should ask your mate Colum - as a matter of fact ask him how he got on with stopping Brexit on the green benches
Quote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 11:37:45 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:22:16 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 11:16:48 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:39 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:55:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
If you really think this you are deluded.
OK. Everyone is a big sectarian bigot except you. I thought I always voted for republican candidates because they represent my republican/constitutional position, but alas, it turns out it's because I just hate prods. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Completely misrepresenting what I said, probably deliberately. You are entitled to vote for whoever you want. But if you expect all other candidates from your side to not run just so one of themmuns don't get in, then yes that is a sectarian pact. Continue to deny it if it want. I dont care, I'm sleep deprived and not engaging anymore.
Ah now don't go running. What makes a pact sectarian rather than political other than your own cynicism? If I believe in electing as many pro-Irish Unity candidates as I'm pro-Irish Unity, then why is it sectarian to think maybe it might help if pro-unity candidates come to an electoral arrangement to strengthen their chances? Just because you don't like pacts doesn't mean they are sectarian rather than political.
Like many, I suspect RH has heard the phrase 'sectarian headcount' and thought he'd repeat it to make himself sound clever... without really understanding it. I wouldn't pay much heed
Because Reform and the DUP got so few seats, they are listed as "others" by the BBC while SF, who do not attend, are listed among the important parties
(https://i.postimg.cc/L5gYrxYb/voteshare.png)
Quote from: Franko on July 05, 2024, 04:01:38 PMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 11:37:45 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:22:16 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 11:16:48 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:39 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:55:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
If you really think this you are deluded.
OK. Everyone is a big sectarian bigot except you. I thought I always voted for republican candidates because they represent my republican/constitutional position, but alas, it turns out it's because I just hate prods. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Completely misrepresenting what I said, probably deliberately. You are entitled to vote for whoever you want. But if you expect all other candidates from your side to not run just so one of themmuns don't get in, then yes that is a sectarian pact. Continue to deny it if it want. I dont care, I'm sleep deprived and not engaging anymore.
Ah now don't go running. What makes a pact sectarian rather than political other than your own cynicism? If I believe in electing as many pro-Irish Unity candidates as I'm pro-Irish Unity, then why is it sectarian to think maybe it might help if pro-unity candidates come to an electoral arrangement to strengthen their chances? Just because you don't like pacts doesn't mean they are sectarian rather than political.
Like many, I suspect RH has heard the phrase 'sectarian headcount' and thought he'd repeat it to make himself sound clever... without really understanding it. I wouldn't pay much heed
Nice man playing there, maybe go for the ball next time Franko? Or is that the only thing you have in your playbook?
I know exactly what a sectarian headcount is. I suggest you learn it yourself.
When your election strategy is to remove any other candidates from your sectional interest purely so you can say "you must vote for our guy to remove the guy from the opposing sectional interest", you have by very definition a sectarian headcount. You are removing any real democratic choice for people from either side and turning the whole province into a orange and green carve up. And to what end? So either side can max out at 9-10 seats forever?
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 04:17:21 PMQuote from: Franko on July 05, 2024, 04:01:38 PMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 11:37:45 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:22:16 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 11:16:48 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:39 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:55:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
If you really think this you are deluded.
OK. Everyone is a big sectarian bigot except you. I thought I always voted for republican candidates because they represent my republican/constitutional position, but alas, it turns out it's because I just hate prods. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Completely misrepresenting what I said, probably deliberately. You are entitled to vote for whoever you want. But if you expect all other candidates from your side to not run just so one of themmuns don't get in, then yes that is a sectarian pact. Continue to deny it if it want. I dont care, I'm sleep deprived and not engaging anymore.
Ah now don't go running. What makes a pact sectarian rather than political other than your own cynicism? If I believe in electing as many pro-Irish Unity candidates as I'm pro-Irish Unity, then why is it sectarian to think maybe it might help if pro-unity candidates come to an electoral arrangement to strengthen their chances? Just because you don't like pacts doesn't mean they are sectarian rather than political.
Like many, I suspect RH has heard the phrase 'sectarian headcount' and thought he'd repeat it to make himself sound clever... without really understanding it. I wouldn't pay much heed
Nice man playing there, maybe go for the ball next time Franko? Or is that the only thing you have in your playbook?
I know exactly what a sectarian headcount is. I suggest you learn it yourself.
When your election strategy is to remove any other candidates from your sectional interest purely so you can say "you must vote for our guy to remove the guy from the opposing sectional interest", you have by very definition a sectarian headcount. You are removing any real democratic choice for people from either side and turning the whole province into a orange and green carve up. And to what end? So either side can max out at 9-10 seats forever?
Redhand, just because you use the term "sectional" interest to describe parties coming to an agreement, that doesn't mean it's "sectarian". A party by itself is a sectional interest after all, but that doesn't make it a sectarian organisation.
What makes two parties with similar chielf objectives coming to an electoral agreement "sectarian" rather than political? If I want to maximise the chances of getting pro-unity politicians into office becuase I'm pro-unity, why does that make me sectarian?
Quote from: armaghniac on July 05, 2024, 04:13:41 PMBecause Reform and the DUP got so few seats, they are listed as "others" by the BBC while SF, who do not attend, are listed among the important parties
(https://i.postimg.cc/L5gYrxYb/voteshare.png)
Shinners are number 5 partyzx that's a laugh.
Is it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 04:17:21 PMQuote from: Franko on July 05, 2024, 04:01:38 PMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 11:37:45 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:22:16 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 11:16:48 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 11:13:39 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 05, 2024, 10:55:33 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on July 05, 2024, 10:43:48 AMNo I'm sorry but it is. Reducing every single candidate to an ussun or themmuns based on what community they are from and throwing a strop because other ussuns didn't row in behind you to get rid of themmuns is absolutely 100% trying to reduce the thing to a sectarian headcount.
The constitutional question was not on the ballot paper yesterday!
Neither did the ballot paper make any reference to religion or community. If you think unionists voting for unionist parties isn't based on their unionism, but just on sectarianism, or that people voting for republican/nationalist parties has nothing to do with them holding republican/nationalists views, then, again you're arrogantly talking through your hoop.
I've never voted for a republican candidate because said candidate wasn't a unionist, but because they were republican and as such best represented my legitimate repubican politics. That's not sectarianism. Ditto for those who vote unionist candidates.
Some folk just like to think they are somehow 'above' the constituional debate and take pleasure in slapping a "sectarian" label on absolutely everyone who is excercised by it.
If you really think this you are deluded.
OK. Everyone is a big sectarian bigot except you. I thought I always voted for republican candidates because they represent my republican/constitutional position, but alas, it turns out it's because I just hate prods. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Completely misrepresenting what I said, probably deliberately. You are entitled to vote for whoever you want. But if you expect all other candidates from your side to not run just so one of themmuns don't get in, then yes that is a sectarian pact. Continue to deny it if it want. I dont care, I'm sleep deprived and not engaging anymore.
Ah now don't go running. What makes a pact sectarian rather than political other than your own cynicism? If I believe in electing as many pro-Irish Unity candidates as I'm pro-Irish Unity, then why is it sectarian to think maybe it might help if pro-unity candidates come to an electoral arrangement to strengthen their chances? Just because you don't like pacts doesn't mean they are sectarian rather than political.
Like many, I suspect RH has heard the phrase 'sectarian headcount' and thought he'd repeat it to make himself sound clever... without really understanding it. I wouldn't pay much heed
Nice man playing there, maybe go for the ball next time Franko? Or is that the only thing you have in your playbook?
I know exactly what a sectarian headcount is. I suggest you learn it yourself.
When your election strategy is to remove any other candidates from your sectional interest purely so you can say "you must vote for our guy to remove the guy from the opposing sectional interest", you have by very definition a sectarian headcount. You are removing any real democratic choice for people from either side and turning the whole province into a orange and green carve up. And to what end? So either side can max out at 9-10 seats forever?
An election is a headcount, so we can disregard that
The issue is with the sectarian bit
I notice Snapchap has put it better than I could so I'll leave it at that in terms of an explanation
The Reform Party (in Brexit Party guise) stood aside in many areas in England in 2019 to allow the Tories a clear run
Was the 2019 UK election a sectarian headcount?
Or is it only a sectarian headcount when the agreement is based around the constitutional status of the area?
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:27:16 AMThis 'debate' was starred by a few who stated it was about a sectarian headcount.
I merely stated that some parties stood aside (SF) and other didn't (SDLP) in order to/not to give progressive candiates chance to get elected.
I never mentioned religion. It was brought up by others - a lazy narrative.
The same peope on here who pontificate about the SDLP being very noble in standing in every area and spoof about how that's democracy YET can't answer the questio:
Did the SDLP set aside in NB the last time?
Hyprocites!
My tuppence.
If Sinn Fein really wanted East Derry, if Sinn Fein really wanted to see DUP trounced: they should have agreed to step out of South Down in return the the Derry seat.
Yes it would be 5 years when a sitting SDLP might change the current in South Down. So there would be a risk. But to be honest I think SF could run Jimmy Saville in South Down and would still win.
Maybe this discussion was mooted in the background. Maybe not. I don't know.
I just don't like the one eyed Uber Nationalist trolling and finger pointing going on over on Twitter.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 04:56:11 PMIs it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
There's a difference between wanting them to and calling them a joke if they don't...
Quote from: thewobbler on July 05, 2024, 05:03:34 PMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:27:16 AMThis 'debate' was starred by a few who stated it was about a sectarian headcount.
I merely stated that some parties stood aside (SF) and other didn't (SDLP) in order to/not to give progressive candiates chance to get elected.
I never mentioned religion. It was brought up by others - a lazy narrative.
The same peope on here who pontificate about the SDLP being very noble in standing in every area and spoof about how that's democracy YET can't answer the questio:
Did the SDLP set aside in NB the last time?
Hyprocites!
My tuppence.
If Sinn Fein really wanted East Derry, if Sinn Fein really wanted to see DUP trounced: they should have agreed to step out of South Down in return the the Derry seat.
Yes it would be 5 years when a sitting SDLP might change the current in South Down. So there would be a risk. But to be honest I think SF could run Jimmy Saville in South Down and would still win.
Maybe this discussion was mooted in the background. Maybe not. I don't know.
I just don't like the one eyed Uber Nationalist trolling and finger pointing going on over on Twitter.
Why on earth would you gave up a safe seat to go for one that's 50/50 at best?
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 05, 2024, 05:04:29 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 04:56:11 PMIs it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
There's a difference between wanting them to and calling them a joke if they don't...
Pete Byrne not doing much to disprove the SDLP are a joke narrative...
I don't know much about him and they are not a party going places let's face it but nor should they be expected to just stand aside either and then ridiculed if they don't.
There is probably plenty to give out about which is not that...
Clacton one of the most economically deprived areas in the UK. Voted 70% for Brexit and now have Farage in. Deserve all they get
Where ignorance is bliss.... .
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 04:56:11 PMIs it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
If it's because you've a prejudice against Protestant then yeah it is sectarian. I suspect you don't but I honestly can't see how narrowing the political spectrum into a binary choice could be viewed as a good thing by anyone.
If we did this across all the constituencies in NI we'd have only 2 candidates in a election. Unionist and non unionist. How is that democracy?
Quote from: trileacman on July 05, 2024, 06:07:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 04:56:11 PMIs it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
If it's because you've a prejudice against Protestant then yeah it is sectarian. I suspect you don't but I honestly can't see how narrowing the political spectrum into a binary choice could be viewed as a good thing by anyone.
If we did this across all the constituencies in NI we'd have only 2 candidates in a election. Unionist and non unionist. How is that democracy?
Nobody advocating for pacts is suggesting only nationalists and unionists should run, as far as I can see.
Quote from: trileacman on July 05, 2024, 06:07:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 04:56:11 PMIs it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
If it's because you've a prejudice against Protestant then yeah it is sectarian. I suspect you don't but I honestly can't see how narrowing the political spectrum into a binary choice could be viewed as a good thing by anyone.
If we did this across all the constituencies in NI we'd have only 2 candidates in a election. Unionist and non unionist. How is that democracy?
Even if the Alliance candidate is a Protestant? I've no idea of the religion of any of the Alliance candidates to be honest. I don't give a shite about the religion of the DUP'ers either and if a pro Irish Unity candidate ran who happened to be a Protestant I'd back them.
A picture worth framing.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/494d/live/546d3700-3a90-11ef-bdc5-41d7421c2adf.jpg)
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 05, 2024, 06:36:04 PMA picture worth framing.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/494d/live/546d3700-3a90-11ef-bdc5-41d7421c2adf.jpg)
Provos have updated there wardrobe
Quote from: trileacman on July 05, 2024, 06:07:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 04:56:11 PMIs it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
If it's because you've a prejudice against Protestant then yeah it is sectarian. I suspect you don't but I honestly can't see how narrowing the political spectrum into a binary choice could be viewed as a good thing by anyone.
If we did this across all the constituencies in NI we'd have only 2 candidates in a election. Unionist and non unionist. How is that democracy?
How is a party getting 63% of the seats with 36% of the vote democracy?
Kim Jong Un esque.....
Was there a pact or the SDLP standing aside in East Derry mentioned 6 weeks ago or is it a case of everyone being Captain Hindsight now that the count was close?
Quote from: Rossfan on July 05, 2024, 06:52:38 PMQuote from: trileacman on July 05, 2024, 06:07:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 04:56:11 PMIs it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
If it's because you've a prejudice against Protestant then yeah it is sectarian. I suspect you don't but I honestly can't see how narrowing the political spectrum into a binary choice could be viewed as a good thing by anyone.
If we did this across all the constituencies in NI we'd have only 2 candidates in a election. Unionist and non unionist. How is that democracy?
How is a party getting 63% of the seats with 36% of the vote democracy?
Kim Jong Un esque.....
Al Gore seconds this
Quote from: Rossfan on July 05, 2024, 06:52:38 PMQuote from: trileacman on July 05, 2024, 06:07:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 04:56:11 PMIs it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
If it's because you've a prejudice against Protestant then yeah it is sectarian. I suspect you don't but I honestly can't see how narrowing the political spectrum into a binary choice could be viewed as a good thing by anyone.
If we did this across all the constituencies in NI we'd have only 2 candidates in a election. Unionist and non unionist. How is that democracy?
How is a party getting 63% of the seats with 36% of the vote democracy?
Kim Jong Un esque.....
Quite an exaggeration there. Whatever the flaws of British democracy there's a ocean of difference between it and North Korea.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 05, 2024, 06:52:38 PMQuote from: trileacman on July 05, 2024, 06:07:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 04:56:11 PMIs it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
If it's because you've a prejudice against Protestant then yeah it is sectarian. I suspect you don't but I honestly can't see how narrowing the political spectrum into a binary choice could be viewed as a good thing by anyone.
If we did this across all the constituencies in NI we'd have only 2 candidates in a election. Unionist and non unionist. How is that democracy?
How is a party getting 63% of the seats with 36% of the vote democracy?
Kim Jong Un esque.....
Because the other parties got significantly less than 36%!
Less of the sensationalist north korea nonsense please.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 05, 2024, 06:52:38 PMQuote from: trileacman on July 05, 2024, 06:07:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2024, 04:56:11 PMIs it sectarian of me to want SF/SDLP to stand aside in places like EB to give Alliance the best chance?
If it's because you've a prejudice against Protestant then yeah it is sectarian. I suspect you don't but I honestly can't see how narrowing the political spectrum into a binary choice could be viewed as a good thing by anyone.
If we did this across all the constituencies in NI we'd have only 2 candidates in a election. Unionist and non unionist. How is that democracy?
How is a party getting 63% of the seats with 36% of the vote democracy?
Kim Jong Un esque.....
That's a leap!
Whilst it's a leap to compare it to N. Korea this election has shown what a shambles FPTP is. Reform received about 4 million votes for a return of 5 seats whilst the Lib Dems had 3.5 million with 71 MPs sitting. That's a disgrace (and I'm no fan of Farage!).
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 05, 2024, 07:28:13 PMWhilst it's a leap to compare it to N. Korea this election has shown what a shambles FPTP is. Reform received about 4 million votes for a return of 5 seats whilst the Lib Dems had 3.5 million with 71 MPs sitting. That's a disgrace (and I'm no fan of Farage!).
Used to be similar under UKIP. It's the same story, last time Labour weren't that far behind in the vote compared to the seats won.
SNP was a joke for it at their best
Jim Alister wasted an enormous amount of money asking nonsensical questions in Stormont.
I'm looking forward to english MPs telling him to eff off.
Quote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 03:49:17 PMQuote from: gallsman on July 05, 2024, 01:22:52 PMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:47:24 AMQuote from: gallsman on July 05, 2024, 11:36:27 AMQuote from: marty34 on July 05, 2024, 11:27:16 AMThe same peope on here who pontificate about the SDLP being very noble in standing in every area and spoof about how that's democracy YET can't answer the questio:
Did the SDLP set aside in NB the last time?
Hyprocites!
You seem to be confused by the fact that 2024 is not 2019.
Ah, ok to do a 'sectarian pact' in 2019 but not ok in 2024.
Lol...stop digging.
"Lol" I haven't used the word sectarian here once.
You want Cara Hunter's votes up in East Derry? Go and win them.
Haha. Can't even answer the question re: SDLP in north Belfast the last time.
You should ask your mate Colum - as a matter of fact ask him how he got on with stopping Brexit on the green benches
What question?! The one about did they step aside in 2019? Why ask a question that we all know the answer to? I had assumed it was rhetorical and therefore didn't need answering.
As for the "hypocrites" bit, I'm not aware of any SDLP statement this year that said electoral pacts are unacceptable. If there was, yes, of course that would be hypocritical.
I disagree with electoral pacts in principle. I think they're anti democratic and I think they lead political parties (and evidently their voters) to assume they have a right to someone's vote based on a narrow, or even single item, agenda. If that means some horrible f**ker like Elliott gets to go to Westminster for s couple of years, so be it. Notice that, again, I haven't used the word "sectarian" so maybe if you're reading prowess has improved in the last few hours you'll manage to not suggest this time that I did.
My issue, again, is your completely unfounded allegation that the SDLP failing to stand aside in East Derry has "let nationalists down". As mentioned above you presume her 6k voters would have pushed SF over the line. Do you think her voters feel let down by her or the party? Presumably if they felt let down, they'd have felt it prior to voting and cast their vote for someone else. Yet they didn't. Why do you think that might be?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 05, 2024, 07:28:13 PMWhilst it's a leap to compare it to N. Korea this election has shown what a shambles FPTP is. Reform received about 4 million votes for a return of 5 seats whilst the Lib Dems had 3.5 million with 71 MPs sitting. That's a disgrace (and I'm no fan of Farage!).
Humour chaps😉.
A proper democratic voting system would have seen the Labourites getting around 220 seats.
Quote from: Orior on July 05, 2024, 08:12:22 PMJim Alister wasted an enormous amount of money asking nonsensical questions in Stormont.
I'm looking forward to english MPs telling him to eff off.
It's probably best that he's off to Westminster where he will make no impression instead of constantly holding court in Stormont.
When interviewed after being elected one of his first comments was that he wished he was ten years younger.
Jim might just fade away now....hopefully.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on July 05, 2024, 09:03:46 PMQuote from: Orior on July 05, 2024, 08:12:22 PMJim Alister wasted an enormous amount of money asking nonsensical questions in Stormont.
I'm looking forward to english MPs telling him to eff off.
It's probably best that he's off to Westminster where he will make no impression instead of constantly holding court in Stormont.
When interviewed after being elected one of his first comments was that he wished he was ten years younger.
Jim might just fade away now....hopefully.
He'll have to compete with Farage for airtime
Jim will continue to do his monologues to an empty chamber and then will post the video on twitter about how brilliant Jim Allister KC performed in the chamber.
The only difference is he'll have to take a flight to have a rant to himself this time.
Quote from: Ghost on July 05, 2024, 09:52:00 PMJim will continue to do his monologues to an empty chamber and then will post the video on twitter about how brilliant Jim Allister KC performed in the chamber.
The only difference is he'll have to take a flight to have a rant to himself this time.
A free flight with meals and accommodation like the rest of them and get sucked n to the Westminster lifestyle like the rest.
I vote SF, I have no issue with the SDLP standing in all constituencies in General Elections. To be fair they put a nobody up in FST and from what Claire Hanna was saying they put resources into 3 seats only, Foyle, her own and South Down. I have had to work with all the political parties over the years, SF are always on message and get things done, the SDLP have more internal splits than Behan's republican agenda. Eastwood and Hanna are miles apart politically, and for a woman with roots in the West of Ireland she is more West Brit. The assertion that any MP from NI can do nay thing in parliament is a fantasy. Not two fcuks are given about this place. This election is more symbolic than useful. But one thing does concern me, why is the nationalist vote stuck on 40/41%? Where is the demographic change?
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 06, 2024, 10:31:40 AMI vote SF, I have no issue with the SDLP standing in all constituencies in General Elections. To be fair they put a nobody up in FST and from what Claire Hanna was saying they put resources into 3 seats only, Foyle, her own and South Down. I have had to work with all the political parties over the years, SF are always on message and get things done, the SDLP have more internal splits than Behan's republican agenda. Eastwood and Hanna are miles apart politically, and for a woman with roots in the West of Ireland she is more West Brit. The assertion that any MP from NI can do nay thing in parliament is a fantasy. Not two fcuks are given about this place. This election is more symbolic than useful. But one thing does concern me, why is the nationalist vote stuck on 40/41%? Where is the demographic change?
😂
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 06, 2024, 10:31:40 AM. But one thing does concern me, why is the nationalist vote stuck on 40/41%? Where is the demographic change?
A good question and there won't be a "Border poll" if that remains constant.
I see ye're new Gauleiter is the son of Anthony Wedgewood Benn, later Tony Benn.
At least he might have some interest in ye unlike the last 4 or 5 tulips ye got.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 06, 2024, 11:22:16 AMQuote from: Applesisapples on July 06, 2024, 10:31:40 AM. But one thing does concern me, why is the nationalist vote stuck on 40/41%? Where is the demographic change?
A good question and there won't be a "Border poll" if that remains constant.
I see ye're new Gauleiter is the son of Anthony Wedgewood Benn, later Tony Benn.
At least he might have some interest in ye unlike the last 4 or 5 tulips ye got.
Few reasons, a lot of people in safe seats don't bother their hole, people in places Alliance have a chance and a Shinner/Sdlp wouldn't will probably go with them.
Border poll by 2030.
Do the SF MPs receive any money from Westminster.Does it be published like the way it is in the Dail.
I'd imagine no salary but expenses and cost of maintaining Constituency office and 1 in London?
Quote from: Sportacus on July 06, 2024, 10:34:09 AMQuote from: Applesisapples on July 06, 2024, 10:31:40 AMI vote SF, I have no issue with the SDLP standing in all constituencies in General Elections. To be fair they put a nobody up in FST and from what Claire Hanna was saying they put resources into 3 seats only, Foyle, her own and South Down. I have had to work with all the political parties over the years, SF are always on message and get things done, the SDLP have more internal splits than Behan's republican agenda. Eastwood and Hanna are miles apart politically, and for a woman with roots in the West of Ireland she is more West Brit. The assertion that any MP from NI can do nay thing in parliament is a fantasy. Not two fcuks are given about this place. This election is more symbolic than useful. But one thing does concern me, why is the nationalist vote stuck on 40/41%? Where is the demographic change?
😂
I'd imagine there a quite a few nationalists voting Alliance in areas like North Down and Lagan Valley, where SF and the SDLP, have little or no chance of winning.
How much this would influence the overall %, I'm not so sure.
Cannot see Starmer ever granting border poll. He is unionist through and through. Now that the spineless yellow Scots are quietened he'll be all about the Union. His reference to all "4 nations" backing him shows what we are dealing with.
Quote from: weareros on July 06, 2024, 02:46:08 PMCannot see Starmer ever granting border poll. He is unionist through and through. Now that the spineless yellow Scots are quietened he'll be all about the Union. His reference to all "4 nations" backing him shows what we are dealing with.
Map of the North looks very Green.
Starmer is a p***k but maybe he'll mellow a bit now he's in. In fairness he was trying to appeal to c***ts that had voted Tory in the past.
Quote from: weareros on July 06, 2024, 02:46:08 PMCannot see Starmer ever granting border poll. He is unionist through and through. Now that the spineless yellow Scots are quietened he'll be all about the Union. His reference to all "4 nations" backing him shows what we are dealing with.
I cannot understand Scottish nationalism. How was there a big surge for SNP and the associated constitutional change, and now they've all changed their minds and gone back to Labour? Are they really nationalists?
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 02:51:03 PMQuote from: weareros on July 06, 2024, 02:46:08 PMCannot see Starmer ever granting border poll. He is unionist through and through. Now that the spineless yellow Scots are quietened he'll be all about the Union. His reference to all "4 nations" backing him shows what we are dealing with.
Map of the North looks very Green.
Starmer is a p***k but maybe he'll mellow a bit now he's in. In fairness he was trying to appeal to c***ts that had voted Tory in the past.
The map looks green but the nationalist/unionist vote split is roughly the same.
Leaving the border poll decision at the whim of the British SoS with no definition of what 'likely' means wasn't a great outcome in the GFA negotiations.
Maybe it was the best they could do at the time.
Quote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:04:19 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 02:51:03 PMQuote from: weareros on July 06, 2024, 02:46:08 PMCannot see Starmer ever granting border poll. He is unionist through and through. Now that the spineless yellow Scots are quietened he'll be all about the Union. His reference to all "4 nations" backing him shows what we are dealing with.
Map of the North looks very Green.
Starmer is a p***k but maybe he'll mellow a bit now he's in. In fairness he was trying to appeal to c***ts that had voted Tory in the past.
The map looks Green but the nationalist/unionist vote split is roughly the same.
Leaving the border poll decision at the whim of the British SoS with no definition of what 'likely' means wasn't a great outcome in the GFA negotiations.
Maybe it was the best they could do at the time.
Yeah there should have been something more definitive . Eg. When Nationalist parties have the most MLA's/MPs.
As it is, the SOS will just keep saying no regardless of demographics , and nationalist parties will just look like whinging children continually asking their ma for more pocket money
Some amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
Exactly. It's incredibly arrogant to get angry when other parties don't stand aside for you. You want the votes, you earn them.
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
SDLP had a higher poll than SF last time out as well.
The entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
in fairness I don't think anyone expected SF to get anywhere close in East Derry. I've no idea what the canvassing was like in Foyle and ED, if it wasn't great then definitely something to be looked at. Would expect both those seats to be in play in 5 years.
I do think the right thing to do would have been to step aside in FST given how tight it has been historically.
Quote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:25:19 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
SDLP had a higher poll than SF last time out as well.
The entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Has anyone yapped about East Derry?
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:27:32 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:25:19 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
SDLP had a higher poll than SF last time out as well.
The entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Has anyone yapped about East Derry?
Joe Brolly for one but don't worry Matthew O'Toole put him back in his box
Ahh mouthpieces on Twitter yapping.. Don't know what canvassing was like in ED and Foyle either but just mean if they want to get those seats in 5 years time they'll need to put the groundwork in.
Brolly was one but others on the bandwagon too. By Joes logic Derry just shouldn't field in AI as they've no chance of winning it 🙄 balloon
Quote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:28:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:27:32 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:25:19 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
SDLP had a higher poll than SF last time out as well.
The entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Has anyone yapped about East Derry?
Joe Brolly for one but don't worry Matthew O'Toole put him back in his box
Aw here. Is there anything Joe doesn't yap about lol.
In hindsight it is a pity they didn't step aside to get the seat off the DUP and get that p***k Campbell out but no one was calling for it pre election especially since SDLP were closer than SF the last time.
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:32:56 PMAhh mouthpieces on Twitter yapping.. Don't know what canvassing was like in ED and Foyle either but just mean if they want to get those seats in 5 years time they'll need to put the groundwork in.
Brolly was one but others on the bandwagon too. By Joes logic Derry just shouldn't field in AI as they've no chance of winning it 🙄 balloon
You'd imagine there'll be a big focus there the next time given both are definitely in play.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:33:07 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:28:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:27:32 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:25:19 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
SDLP had a higher poll than SF last time out as well.
The entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Has anyone yapped about East Derry?
Joe Brolly for one but don't worry Matthew O'Toole put him back in his box
Aw here. Is there anything Joe doesn't yap about lol.
In hindsight it is a pity they didn't step aside to get the seat off the DUP and get that p***k Campbell out but no one was calling for it pre election especially since SDLP were closer than SF the last time.
It's a nonsense debate really. It's no different than a DUPer saying 'Oh why didn't the UUP and TUV stand aside so Flegory isn't in such danger'.
If we go down the election pact road Unionism wins. For a while anyway.
Quote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:40:47 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:33:07 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:28:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:27:32 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:25:19 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
SDLP had a higher poll than SF last time out as well.
The entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Has anyone yapped about East Derry?
Joe Brolly for one but don't worry Matthew O'Toole put him back in his box
Aw here. Is there anything Joe doesn't yap about lol.
In hindsight it is a pity they didn't step aside to get the seat off the DUP and get that p***k Campbell out but no one was calling for it pre election especially since SDLP were closer than SF the last time.
It's a nonsense debate really. It's no different than a DUPer saying 'Oh why didn't the UUP and TUV stand aside so Flegory isn't in such danger'.
If we go down the election pact road Unionism wins. For a while anyway.
Yeah true.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:42:39 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:40:47 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:33:07 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:28:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:27:32 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:25:19 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
SDLP had a higher poll than SF last time out as well.
The entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Has anyone yapped about East Derry?
Joe Brolly for one but don't worry Matthew O'Toole put him back in his box
Aw here. Is there anything Joe doesn't yap about lol.
In hindsight it is a pity they didn't step aside to get the seat off the DUP and get that p***k Campbell out but no one was calling for it pre election especially since SDLP were closer than SF the last time.
It's a nonsense debate really. It's no different than a DUPer saying 'Oh why didn't the UUP and TUV stand aside so Flegory isn't in such danger'.
If we go down the election pact road Unionism wins. For a while anyway.
Yeah true.
Would have been nice to have seen Flegory out on his hole though.
Quote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 04:33:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:42:39 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:40:47 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:33:07 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:28:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:27:32 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:25:19 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
SDLP had a higher poll than SF last time out as well.
The entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Has anyone yapped about East Derry?
Joe Brolly for one but don't worry Matthew O'Toole put him back in his box
Aw here. Is there anything Joe doesn't yap about lol.
In hindsight it is a pity they didn't step aside to get the seat off the DUP and get that p***k Campbell out but no one was calling for it pre election especially since SDLP were closer than SF the last time.
It's a nonsense debate really. It's no different than a DUPer saying 'Oh why didn't the UUP and TUV stand aside so Flegory isn't in such danger'.
If we go down the election pact road Unionism wins. For a while anyway.
Yeah true.
Would have been nice to have seen Flegory out on his hole though.
He'll hardly run again will he?
Quote from: Sportacus on July 06, 2024, 03:00:07 PMQuote from: weareros on July 06, 2024, 02:46:08 PMCannot see Starmer ever granting border poll. He is unionist through and through. Now that the spineless yellow Scots are quietened he'll be all about the Union. His reference to all "4 nations" backing him shows what we are dealing with.
I cannot understand Scottish nationalism. How was there a big surge for SNP and the associated constitutional change, and now they've all changed their minds and gone back to Labour? Are they really nationalists?
SNP half a million votes down on 2019.
Turn out down too.
Hopefully a load of Independence supporters not bothering with a Westminster vote but it doesn't look good for them or their cause.
A Province once again.....
Quote from: Sportacus on July 06, 2024, 03:00:07 PMQuote from: weareros on July 06, 2024, 02:46:08 PMCannot see Starmer ever granting border poll. He is unionist through and through. Now that the spineless yellow Scots are quietened he'll be all about the Union. His reference to all "4 nations" backing him shows what we are dealing with.
I cannot understand Scottish nationalism. How was there a big surge for SNP and the associated constitutional change, and now they've all changed their minds and gone back to Labour? Are they really nationalists?
strange nation
Two things though - corruption in the party and the thing round definition of a woman which was very controversial. People in Scotland less inclined to vote purely on the nationalism thing particularly when there will be no referendum for a long time.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:27:32 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:25:19 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
SDLP had a higher poll than SF last time out as well.
The entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Has anyone yapped about East Derry?
The SDLP blade getting awful abuse on twitter.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 06, 2024, 05:27:16 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2024, 03:27:32 PMQuote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:25:19 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Also need to see their MPs doing something haven't seen Hazard doing anything in South Down bar leaving the kids off to nursery same time as I leave my own off
SDLP had a higher poll than SF last time out as well.
The entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Has anyone yapped about East Derry?
The SDLP blade getting awful abuse on twitter.
Clowns on there have too much time on their hands don't they ffs.
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Only themselves to blame? Almost makes it sound like closing a 9,000 vote gap down to 180 was a failure on their part. I'd imagine that gap wasn't closed (taking literally everyone by surprise in the process) through a lack of effort.
Quote from: Father Murphy on July 06, 2024, 03:25:19 PMThe entitlement of SF is off the chart.
Two things on that..
1. I haven't seen a single SF rep attacking the SDLP for not standing aside. Only a few randomers on twitter.
2. Perhaps unfair to claim entitlement in any case. Not only did they not request the SDLP to stand aside, but they themselves voluntarily stood aside in four constituencies: Belfast East, Belfast South and Mid Down, Lagan Valley and North Down in order to boost the chances of other progressive parties. And before anyone throws out the "sectarian pact" waffle. They didnt stand aside for the benefit of just progressive nationalist parties, but in three of those four, it was to aid the alliance party's chances.
Quote from: Snapchap on July 06, 2024, 06:41:02 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on July 06, 2024, 03:15:32 PMSome amount of yapping about SDLP not standing aside in ED.. If SF couldn't convince an extra 180 to vote for them then only themselves to blame.
They need to run a big canvass campaign in ED & Foyle if they want to get those two seats to get the votes they need time.
Only themselves to blame? Almost makes it sound like closing a 9,000 vote gap down to 180 was a failure on their part. I'd imagine that gap wasn't closed (taking literally everyone by surprise in the process) through a lack of effort.
Were did I say it was a failure? I'm saying don't go blaming Stoopers not stepping down for not winning.. They're be undecided voters in Aontu and SDLP and they couldn't convince them and for SF voters to say SDLP should have stood down for them to win a seat which as you said no one thought was up for grabs is a stupid thing to say.
Who are you arguing with? No one only a few ejits are saying they should have stood aside and absolutely no one was saying it before the election.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/cherry-sturgeon-owes-defeated-snp-mps-apology-after-voters-were-disillusioned/a1265954561.html
So Benn adamant that there's only one criteria for a border poll and SOS has to feel a majority would vote for a UI. So perhaps the likes of Joe Brolly should leave Carla Hunter alone and ask why Sinn Fein are stepping aside for Alliance. Those votes do not contribute to the overall nationalist vote and will only hold back that decision.
Quote from: weareros on July 07, 2024, 01:33:12 PMSo Benn adamant that there's only one criteria for a border poll and SOS has to feel a majority would vote for a UI. So perhaps the likes of Joe Brolly should leave Carla Hunter alone and ask why Sinn Fein are stepping aside for Alliance. Those votes do not contribute to the overall nationalist vote and will only hold back that decision.
I saw him having some back and forth with Matthew O'Toole of the SDLP on Twitter, he seemed pleased with himself as he was then retweeting his own replies for some reason, maybe didn't get the number of likes he was looking for.
I mean a 100% bona fide narcissist
Definitely a few more seats in play now.
It could well be Sammy and Gregory's last hurrah with Alliance in East Antrim and SF in East Londonderry :-X next time out.
LV will see a coordinated Unionist effort to win it back, much like EB, though FST probably no longer a marginal and solidly green.
Upper Bann needs a big Nationalist figurehead to put pressure on Lockhart.
This was probably also a last time lucky for Jim Allister and the TUV with no natural replacement.
Quote from: weareros on July 07, 2024, 01:33:12 PMSo Benn adamant that there's only one criteria for a border poll and SOS has to feel a majority would vote for a UI. So perhaps the likes of Joe Brolly should leave Carla Hunter alone and ask why Sinn Fein are stepping aside for Alliance. Those votes do not contribute to the overall nationalist vote and will only hold back that decision.
It's a brilliant criteria to be fair.
How many are going to call it East LondonDerry on here, hear enough of that shite from the West Brits at matches
I think there is a problem in nationalism though. The sdlp are falling away which gives no viable alternative to sf. Your problem there becomes that there will be people, and I suspect a reasonable few, who would be uncomfortable voting for sf. If their votes go to alliance then they don't go to nationalism. The whys and wherefores of why people would do that is irrelevant. Unionism is fractured but they do have multiple parties to vote for so you would find a home. The sdlp are falling away and nationalism doesn't really have a viable alternative if that downward spiral continues.
Also it's Cara...
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2024, 10:06:42 PMI think there is a problem in nationalism though. The sdlp are falling away which gives no viable alternative to sf. Your problem there becomes that there will be people, and I suspect a reasonable few, who would be uncomfortable voting for sf. If their votes go to alliance then they don't go to nationalism. The whys and wherefores of why people would do that is irrelevant. Unionism is fractured but they do have multiple parties to vote for so you would find a home. The sdlp are falling away and nationalism doesn't really have a viable alternative if that downward spiral continues.
Also it's Cara...
Aontu, PBP (might not be nationalist on paper but....)
I think the SDLP are dying a natural death. And I mean it in the most literal sense.
But yeah, moderates on both sides will go to Alliance. It's what they are there for I suppose.
Why do you think the sdlp are dying a natural death? I do wonder about whether Eastwood is the right man to lead them though maybe no alternative.
The age profile of the SDLP voter. They are literally dying.
Also, in many ways, have they not run out of road? Honestly, what would attract a new voter to them?
Not sure why you would vote for the sdlp at all tbh unless its them or a dup'er
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 07, 2024, 11:44:22 PMNot sure why you would vote for the sdlp at all tbh unless its them or a dup'er
People will vote for personalities, if someone comes across as genuine has good core values and you believe in what they say then you'll vote for that person, the party is immaterial.
For some SF still have some baggage, it'll take time yet for the older voters to be not around anymore, the young nationalists coming through will be voting SF,I think alliance will also get stronger over the next 20 years as they'll be a better choice to sensible younger voters who'd traditionally voted unionist
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 07, 2024, 10:43:57 PMThe age profile of the SDLP voter. They are literally dying.
Also, in many ways, have they not run out of road? Honestly, what would attract a new voter to them?
Currently not much I guess...
This is my final point on this issue. I see Eastwood and Hanna are giving out, complaining about the recent election and what people are saying about them standing/not standing in certain areas.
Now the key thing is that Eastwood wanted to stand everywhere to add to their percentage vote - as he knows that he's failing badly as their leader. People will say well, that's his job, isn't it? But he's not a team player - other parties stood aside in certain areas to aid progressive candidates. They didn't, regardless of who they put up. That's the difference.
Now SDLP and Hanna got a free run in south Belfast and MD but they didn't recipocrate anywhere. A few people on here are complaining saying, as above, why should they but they did it in north Belfast at the last WM election. That's my point. Why do it the last time but not this time? It suited them the last time - as I say, not a team player.
Isn't it ironic that any questioning/debate on this is labelled sectarian and trolling etc. by the SDLP whereas in the weeks before the election, they were joining in on the unionist/Nolan pile on on Pat Cullen in FST? The SDLP are spoofing about nationalist parties working together while a few days ago they put up pictures of a candiate V an empty chair (i.e. not taking seats in London). Their candidate in Newry area alledgely talking about putting stickers on a donkey. How ironic? Ah well, at least it wasn't a crocodile!
Anybody with any savvy can see what this is all about. This is a deflection from the SDLP's, and by extension, Eastwood's poor leadership. This is what this is all about - deflection by Eastwood and Hanna. But they'll be grand on the green benches.
I wonder will Benn and Labour cough up any more money re: Casement Park?
Does anybody know the date when UEFA hav their deadline? It couldn't be very far away now.
Quote from: marty34 on July 08, 2024, 10:09:12 AMThis is my final point on this issue. I see Eastwood and Hanna are giving out, complaining about the recent election and what people are saying about them standing/not standing in certain areas.
Now the key thing is that Eastwood wanted to stand everywhere to add to their percentage vote - as he knows that he's failing badly as their leader. People will say well, that's his job, isn't it? But he's not a team player - other parties stood aside in certain areas to aid progressive candidates. They didn't, regardless of who they put up. That's the difference.
Now SDLP and Hanna got a free run in south Belfast and MD but they didn't recipocrate anywhere. A few people on here are complaining saying, as above, why should they but they did it in north Belfast at the last WM election. That's my point. Why do it the last time but not this time? It suited them the last time - as I say, not a team player.
Isn't it ironic that any questioning/debate on this is labelled sectarian and trolling etc. by the SDLP whereas in the weeks before the election, they were joining in on the unionist/Nolan pile on on Pat Cullen in FST? The SDLP are spoofing about nationalist parties working together while a few days ago they put up pictures of a candiate V an empty chair (i.e. not taking seats in London). Their candidate in Newry area alledgely talking about putting stickers on a donkey. How ironic? Ah well, at least it wasn't a crocodile!
Anybody with any savvy can see what this is all about. This is a deflection from the SDLP's, and by extension, Eastwood's poor leadership. This is what this is all about - deflection by Eastwood and Hanna. But they'll be grand on the green benches.
Aye, and when they are finally fucked out on their ears no doubt they'll join Baroness Ritchie of West Britainshire on the red benches.
Quote from: red hander on July 08, 2024, 11:56:57 AMAye, and when they are finally fucked out on their ears no doubt they'll join Baroness Ritchie of West Britainshire on the red benches.
That was a disgraceful position for any so-called nationalist to take up. Not sure how Colm squares that in his quest for unity.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 07, 2024, 09:59:34 PMQuote from: weareros on July 07, 2024, 01:33:12 PMSo Benn adamant that there's only one criteria for a border poll and SOS has to feel a majority would vote for a UI. So perhaps the likes of Joe Brolly should leave Carla Hunter alone and ask why Sinn Fein are stepping aside for Alliance. Those votes do not contribute to the overall nationalist vote and will only hold back that decision.
It's a brilliant criteria to be fair.
It may be but it's a jam tomorrow never today criteria. What does a SOS look at to decide a majority would vote for a UI.
He can look at Census but only 29% see themselves as Irish. He's not going to take those who see themselves as Northern Irish first, not should he. If you want a UI, you'd imagine their nationality is Irish and not the made up our wee country statelet, even if a lot from Catholic gene pool are now picking "Northern Ireland" as their nationality.
He can look at opinion polls and the problem is those given most credence (eg Arins which has a lot of prominent academics involved) has it still at 30%. LucidTalk has it higher at 41%. But all the others are low too so in a combination of polls there's a long way to go. Of course it's asked in a way that keeps it low too.
Then there's the nationalist vote in general elections. It was 40% in 1997 and it's 40% now, which is why I said it's stupid conceding percentages to Alliance - who are still a status quo and therefore Unionist party. Yes Sorcha we saw your Union Jack dress. It was 44% in locals, so it's clearly a bit higher if nationalists maximized votes. Number of MPs at Westminster clearly mean nothing to SOS as there's already a nationalist majority.
Benn or Starmer have not a notion of granting a border poll. They will always be looking for a certain jam tomorrow never today majority before a date is even picked. If that number has to be comfortably over 50%, then that won't be happening any day soon.
Quote from: weareros on July 08, 2024, 01:58:29 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 07, 2024, 09:59:34 PMQuote from: weareros on July 07, 2024, 01:33:12 PMSo Benn adamant that there's only one criteria for a border poll and SOS has to feel a majority would vote for a UI. So perhaps the likes of Joe Brolly should leave Carla Hunter alone and ask why Sinn Fein are stepping aside for Alliance. Those votes do not contribute to the overall nationalist vote and will only hold back that decision.
It's a brilliant criteria to be fair.
It may be but it's a jam tomorrow never today criteria. What does a SOS look at to decide a majority would vote for a UI.
He can look at Census but only 29% see themselves as Irish. He's not going to take those who see themselves as Northern Irish first, not should he. If you want a UI, you'd imagine their nationality is Irish and not the made up our wee country statelet, even if a lot from Catholic gene pool are now picking "Northern Ireland" as their nationality.
He can look at opinion polls and the problem is those given most credence (eg Arins which has a lot of prominent academics involved) has it still at 30%. LucidTalk has it higher at 41%. But all the others are low too so in a combination of polls there's a long way to go. Of course it's asked in a way that keeps it low too.
Then there's the nationalist vote in general elections. It was 40% in 1997 and it's 40% now, which is why I said it's stupid conceding percentages to Alliance - who are still a status quo and therefore Unionist party. Yes Sorcha we saw your Union Jack dress. It was 44% in locals, so it's clearly a bit higher if nationalists maximized votes. Number of MPs at Westminster clearly mean nothing to SOS as there's already a nationalist majority.
Benn or Starmer have not a notion of granting a border poll. They will always be looking for a certain jam tomorrow never today majority before a date is even picked. If that number has to be comfortably over 50%, then that won't be happening any day soon.
What would be the birth rates nowadays in comparison to 20 plus years ago? I'd say on both sides its similar and with education on the nationalist side generating degrees, then the young ones here wouldn't all be staying home, living abroad seeking their fortune elsewhere seems to be popular on tiktok ;)
Border poll might not be held in the next ten years, just don't think the numbers are there yet, hopefully in my lifetime but, its been 100 years plus now, god knows what's ahead of us during that period, globally
There are none so blind as those that cannot see! The evidence of demographic change is overwhelming. It is clear to see in every facet of life here, not least in the election results if people can read them properly and stop swallowing the rhetoric of the loyal media.
Example 1. Lagan Valley. According to the 2021 Census, this constituency is 24% catholic. A minority, but a big enough minority to get behind a good Alliance candidate and help her win. Alliance got 38%, SDLP 2%, SF, PBP and Aontú did not stand. Therefore the line from Befast Telegraph/BBC/Fine Gael is that only 2% of the voters here support Irish Unity. Of course this is nonsense.
Example 2. Seats. It has been reported and requoted above on this page that the Nationalist vote is broadly the same as 1997!. In 1997 Unionists won West Tyrone, Fermanagh South Tyrone, North Belfast, South Belfast and Lagan Valley. The first four of those will never be won by a unionist again as long as the state exists.
Example 3. Belfast. The capital of Northern Ireland has an increasingly dwindling Unionist population. 3 of the 4 Westminster seats are held by Nationalists. In last years Belfast City Council elections, only 29% voted for Unionist parties.
So with all those facts, why hasn't taken place and when do you think it will?
Will there still be a need for so of themuns to vote for a UI or will there be enough of ussuns to get it over the line?
The game changer will be when the Irish Government decides this needs to happen. The SF setback in the South this year is a major blow in this regard. FF/FG can just continue to ignore it all, especially if they win the upcoming election and there are no more Northern elections until 2027.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 08, 2024, 03:22:51 PMSo with all those facts, why hasn't taken place and when do you think it will?
Will there still be a need for so of themuns to vote for a UI or will there be enough of ussuns to get it over the line?
Quite clearly the middle ground vote has been getting greener and greener. The nationalist vote has stagnated or even gone backwards from it's high point of 45% in the 99 euro election, however the middle ground is very different today. The greens were probably always looked on as a bit taigy but the Alliance party very much was a Unionist party all be it with a small u. Fast forward 25 yrs and a recent survey shows more alliance party members in favour of Unity, their voters transfer to nationalist over unionist at a rate of 3-1. Even the likes of former leader John Alderdice know which way things are going it's just the current leadership still seems a bit too hesitant and don't want to rock the boat. Let's not forget the PBP are also others yet are probably more keen on a UI than SF.
I wouldn't trust polling they are usually flawed especially the University of Liverpool junk. It should be a case of if there are more nationalist MLA's than unionist mla's in 2 or 3 assembly elections in a row then that should be time. If that doesn't happen I would full expect a Joe Bloggs (with SF and SDLP pulling the strings) to take the SoS to court.
Quote from: Feckitt on July 08, 2024, 03:16:25 PMThere are none so blind as those that cannot see! The evidence of demographic change is overwhelming. It is clear to see in every facet of life here, not least in the election results if people can read them properly and stop swallowing the rhetoric of the loyal media.
Example 1. Lagan Valley. According to the 2021 Census, this constituency is 24% catholic. A minority, but a big enough minority to get behind a good Alliance candidate and help her win. Alliance got 38%, SDLP 2%, SF, PBP and Aontú did not stand. Therefore the line from Befast Telegraph/BBC/Fine Gael is that only 2% of the voters here support Irish Unity. Of course this is nonsense.
What's the point of that. It only feeds the Ben Lowry nonsense. Sorcha Eastwood is from an Irish Catholic background that will take an oath of allegiance and support British rule. She's the type that sees Northern Ireland as its own nationality. Everyone knows there's nationalist votes in East Belfast and Lagan Valley but some think it's better to have a Moderate Unionist MP than demonstrate the strength of the Irish unity vote. Alliance don't step aside to help nationalists win in marginal like North Belfast and target South Belfast. Based on second preferences, they've taken a lot of what would be nationalist votes which now get interpreted as votes to maintain the status quo. It's of no value to nationalism in the long run.
Quote from: weareros on July 08, 2024, 03:44:59 PMQuote from: Feckitt on July 08, 2024, 03:16:25 PMThere are none so blind as those that cannot see! The evidence of demographic change is overwhelming. It is clear to see in every facet of life here, not least in the election results if people can read them properly and stop swallowing the rhetoric of the loyal media.
Example 1. Lagan Valley. According to the 2021 Census, this constituency is 24% catholic. A minority, but a big enough minority to get behind a good Alliance candidate and help her win. Alliance got 38%, SDLP 2%, SF, PBP and Aontú did not stand. Therefore the line from Befast Telegraph/BBC/Fine Gael is that only 2% of the voters here support Irish Unity. Of course this is nonsense.
What's the point of that. It only feeds the Ben Lowry nonsense. Sorcha Eastwood is from an Irish Catholic background that will take an oath of allegiance and support British rule. She's the type that sees Northern Ireland as its own nationality. Everyone knows there's nationalist votes in East Belfast and Lagan Valley but some think it's better to have a Moderate Unionist MP than demonstrate the strength of the Irish unity vote. Alliance don't step aside to help nationalists win in marginal like North Belfast and target South Belfast. Based on second preferences, they've taken a lot of what would be nationalist votes which now get interpreted as votes to maintain the status quo. It's of no value to nationalism in the long run.
I would still prefer an alliance MP than a full on Unionist but Alliance will have to come off that fence sooner or later the closer we get to to a border poll, they can't just keep spoofing on the subject. If they keep saying they are neither then as I noted earlier they should be discarded then on the numbers game hence more nationalist MLA's than unionist mla's as the indicator
How long before Joe is spotted naked in the street shouting at cars?
https://x.com/joebrolly1993/status/1810434521549910272?s=46
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 08, 2024, 03:22:51 PMSo with all those facts, why hasn't taken place and when do you think it will?
Will there still be a need for so of themuns to vote for a UI or will there be enough of ussuns to get it over the line?
Hard to tell. Turnout this time was a feeble 58%. Would we assume turnout for a Border Poll would be much higher, in which case there are a hell of a lot of votes to play for and which are not understood.
Serious work is now needed to present the case economically, culturally and socially.
Saw three boneheads hanging Union Jacks last night in a very mixed area, and went home half in bad form and half thinking their days are numbered.
If political Unionism had any wherewithal they would have had the border poll in the early 2000s after the GFA
With a multitude of other factors their death grip with be part of their undoing, as the old brigade die off that bit more over the next 5-10 years the arse will fall out of their numbers altogether
Quote from: Sportacus on July 09, 2024, 11:43:36 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 08, 2024, 03:22:51 PMSo with all those facts, why hasn't taken place and when do you think it will?
Will there still be a need for so of themuns to vote for a UI or will there be enough of ussuns to get it over the line?
Hard to tell. Turnout this time was a feeble 58%. Would we assume turnout for a Border Poll would be much higher, in which case there are a hell of a lot of votes to play for and which are not understood.
Serious work is now needed to present the case economically, culturally and socially.
Saw three boneheads hanging Union Jacks last night in a very mixed area, and went home half in bad form and half thinking their days are numbered.
Yeah, the fleg hanging in mixed areas is a pain in the hole, little or no respect for their neighbours, though I live in a mix'ish area, once I leave that I'm into the fleg waving Newtownabbey and it's a bit like tinnitus its annoying but you just live with it and before long its not noticeable! (as much)
The flags in mixed areas would annoy me I have to say - just like the paras flags. Very antagonistic. I drive through areas covered in union jacks all the time and couldn't give a shite but the likes of that mixed estate etc recently - it's just neanderthal knuckle dragging. It comes to a point from staunch areas being "gentrified" I think too which causes more insecurity on top of border poll talk etc.
It's the UVF flags down along Boucher I have a real issue with that are allowed to fly
There's a roundabout just outside Limavady that has been painted Red White and Blue for about 10 years now, they even have the audacity to freshen it up now and again without any hassle from the police. Limavady town itself wouldn't be far from 50/50 these days if not already a slight nationalist majority
Quote from: Brendan on July 09, 2024, 02:47:31 PMThere's a roundabout just outside Limavady that has been painted Red White and Blue for about 10 years now, they even have the audacity to freshen it up now and again without any hassle from the police. Limavady town itself wouldn't be far from 50/50 these days if not already a slight nationalist majority
Billybinghamvalley and Cookstownsizzleglen, gets me every time
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 09, 2024, 02:40:24 PMIt's the UVF flags down along Boucher I have a real issue with that are allowed to fly
They're all legit and commemorating the old UVF :o
Ai dead on...
If you are a flag fan, go ahead and put one up on your own property. As the saying goes "Nail your colours to the mast" Whatever the symbolism, it is linked to you the individual as is the maintenance of it where they are invariably filthy, ragged and torn within a week or two. If that's who you are, go ahead. But public property should be off limits, end of...
That Alister rat will get plenty of attention now stuck beside his buddy Nigel. (Even though Nigel was backing Ian Og)
Embarrassing Colum
https://x.com/columeastwood/status/1810712123980251148?s=46&t=aYPdMIWTWcvVcMF74de4YQ
Quote from: weareros on July 08, 2024, 03:44:59 PMEveryone knows there's nationalist votes in East Belfast and Lagan Valley but some think it's better to have a Moderate Unionist MP than demonstrate the strength of the Irish unity vote.
Anyone with more than two f**king brain cells to rub together knows its better to have Alliance in LV than the DUP.
Take a good look at yerself.
There won't be a border poll in the next 2 governments, nor should there be. No one is ready and there needs to be an awful lot of work done to get things ready.
When its clear that conditions are both ready in terms of frameworks, plans, processes
and the electorate, then go for it.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 09, 2024, 08:03:48 PMQuote from: weareros on July 08, 2024, 03:44:59 PMEveryone knows there's nationalist votes in East Belfast and Lagan Valley but some think it's better to have a Moderate Unionist MP than demonstrate the strength of the Irish unity vote.
Anyone with more than two f**king brain cells to rub together knows its better to have Alliance in LV than the DUP.
Take a good look at yerself.
There won't be a border poll in the next 2 governments, nor should there be. No one is ready and there needs to be an awful lot of work done to get things ready.
When its clear that conditions are both ready in terms of frameworks, plans, processes and the electorate, then go for it.
How will things be ready if unionists refuse to get involved in any planning or discussion?
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 09, 2024, 08:34:54 PMHow will things be ready if unionists refuse to get involved in any planning or discussion?
A very different question.
Also one whose answer probably doesn't lie in having more DUP representatives elected instead of Alliance.
It's all got a wee bit pathetic. Sinn Fein reps calling Hanna "performative" for taking the oath in Irish. Eastwood butting in to say Derry when Robinson said Londonderry.
Our waiting lists are off the charts ffs.
Fair play to Hanna for using Irish but a better gesture would be not to take the oath.
Not one blind bit of difference to waiting lists will they make in the HofC
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 09, 2024, 10:58:06 PMFair play to Hanna for using Irish but a better gesture would be not to take the oath.
Not one blind bit of difference to waiting lists will they make in the HofC
We should add public sector servants to that list the bastards of people who work for the government!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2024, 11:39:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 09, 2024, 10:58:06 PMFair play to Hanna for using Irish but a better gesture would be not to take the oath.
Not one blind bit of difference to waiting lists will they make in the HofC
We should add public sector servants to that list the bastards of people who work for the government!!
Especially in the dole office, degrading the Irish people with handouts from the King.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 09, 2024, 11:56:41 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2024, 11:39:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 09, 2024, 10:58:06 PMFair play to Hanna for using Irish but a better gesture would be not to take the oath.
Not one blind bit of difference to waiting lists will they make in the HofC
We should add public sector servants to that list the bastards of people who work for the government!!
Especially in the dole office, degrading the Irish people with handouts from the King.
And Traffic wardens and especially those feckers with the speed van! Cnuts
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 09, 2024, 10:58:06 PMFair play to Hanna for using Irish but a better gesture would be not to take the oath.
Not one blind bit of difference to waiting lists will they make in the HofC
Is the oath the main reason why the Shinners will not take their seats in Westminster?
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 09, 2024, 10:58:06 PMFair play to Hanna for using Irish but a better gesture would be not to take the oath.
Not one blind bit of difference to waiting lists will they make in the HofC
The Govt is powerless to do anything about the NHS now. It's largely a sick care money racket. Junior docs when they realise where they have landed themselves are dropping out or emigrating in significant numbers. Where's the satisfaction in medicating people to an acceptable level of sickness rather than fixing their ailments in the longer term. Throwing money at it just feeds the beast. We need Docs who can think for themselves not just administer pre determined protocols. How the medics have let it come to this??
Quote from: LC on July 10, 2024, 08:14:28 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 09, 2024, 10:58:06 PMFair play to Hanna for using Irish but a better gesture would be not to take the oath.
Not one blind bit of difference to waiting lists will they make in the HofC
Is the oath the main reason why the Shinners will not take their seats in Westminster?
No. They've been fairly consistent in saying that they can't be opposed to British politicians having a say in Irish affairs while simultaneously, as Irish politicians, going over to sit in Westminster and involving themselves in the political affairs of people in Britain.
Quote from: Snapchap on July 10, 2024, 08:55:26 AMQuote from: LC on July 10, 2024, 08:14:28 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 09, 2024, 10:58:06 PMFair play to Hanna for using Irish but a better gesture would be not to take the oath.
Not one blind bit of difference to waiting lists will they make in the HofC
Is the oath the main reason why the Shinners will not take their seats in Westminster?
No. They've been fairly consistent in saying that they can't say that they are opposed to British politicians have a say in Irish affairs while simultaneously, as Irish politicians, go over to sit in Westminster and involving themselves in the political affairs of people in Britain.
Would the resources and money then used to fight the seats for Westminster not be best used elsewhere?
Just watched view from stormont from the other night on itvx. Shirlow is some guy for trolling. He keeps repeating this gibberish that come border poll Alliance don't count so using his one eyed calculations nationalists need 51 out of every 85 votes in a referendum. That's 60% so not 50%+1. It's comical if it wasn't actually coming from an academic who produces polls that will be used to influence a SoS whether a border poll is needed or not. I don't understand why the likes of David McCann and Suzanne Breen co commentators on the panel just sit back and not challenge this garbage.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 10, 2024, 09:04:40 AMQuote from: Snapchap on July 10, 2024, 08:55:26 AMQuote from: LC on July 10, 2024, 08:14:28 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 09, 2024, 10:58:06 PMFair play to Hanna for using Irish but a better gesture would be not to take the oath.
Not one blind bit of difference to waiting lists will they make in the HofC
Is the oath the main reason why the Shinners will not take their seats in Westminster?
No. They've been fairly consistent in saying that they can't say that they are opposed to British politicians have a say in Irish affairs while simultaneously, as Irish politicians, go over to sit in Westminster and involving themselves in the political affairs of people in Britain.
Would the resources and money then used to fight the seats for Westminster not be best used elsewhere?
So a political party ought not be spending its money on getting people elected? There's a new angle to the abstentionism debate, just when I'd thought it was the most repetitive debate on earth.
They still operate a full constituency service. They only thing they don't do is attend the chamber.
I can't be the only one who's bored of this abstentionistm "debate" every five years? Surely even SFs most ardent critics are tired of it at this stage and can see that they're getting absolutley nowhere with it?
I'm not saying they are wrong btw, Westminster has been a pointless entity for here since the State began, and continues to pay lip service to most if not all things.
What would the duties be in a fully operational constituency office?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 10, 2024, 11:31:43 AMI'm not saying they are wrong btw, Westminster has been a pointless entity for here since the State began, and continues to pay lip service to most if not all things.
What would the duties be in a fully operational constituency office?
Fixing potholes and getting swastika's painted over depending on your constituency.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 10, 2024, 11:36:58 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 10, 2024, 11:31:43 AMI'm not saying they are wrong btw, Westminster has been a pointless entity for here since the State began, and continues to pay lip service to most if not all things.
What would the duties be in a fully operational constituency office?
Fixing potholes and getting swastika's painted over depending on your constituency.
Be a few more potholes this year with the weather we are currently having!
Quote from: johnnycool on July 10, 2024, 11:36:58 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 10, 2024, 11:31:43 AMI'm not saying they are wrong btw, Westminster has been a pointless entity for here since the State began, and continues to pay lip service to most if not all things.
What would the duties be in a fully operational constituency office?
Fixing potholes and getting swastika's painted over depending on your constituency.
If this is what MPs focus their energies on what do the MLAs and councillors, surely they all can not take credit for fixing potholes or getting roads surfaced. Regardless if anything is actually done we are not short in terms of a governance structures in this country.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 10, 2024, 11:36:58 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 10, 2024, 11:31:43 AMI'm not saying they are wrong btw, Westminster has been a pointless entity for here since the State began, and continues to pay lip service to most if not all things.
What would the duties be in a fully operational constituency office?
Fixing potholes and getting swastika's painted over depending on your constituency.
Are you Tim "nice but dim" Collins?
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on July 10, 2024, 01:16:41 PMQuote from: johnnycool on July 10, 2024, 11:36:58 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 10, 2024, 11:31:43 AMI'm not saying they are wrong btw, Westminster has been a pointless entity for here since the State began, and continues to pay lip service to most if not all things.
What would the duties be in a fully operational constituency office?
Glad somebody is on the ball today ;D
If off to get me rolls royce polished.
Fixing potholes and getting swastika's painted over depending on your constituency.
Are you Tim "nice but dim" Collins?
Petition Call a General Election I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election. (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143)
Only started a couple of days and there's 1.6 Million signatures
Quote from: theskull1 on November 24, 2024, 09:51:08 PMPetition Call a General Election I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election. (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143)
Only started a couple of days and there's 1.6 Million signatures
It's strange how this has grown legs and yet they were lied to about Brexit and none of them would dare mention it.
Could this not happen after every election? Given it could just all be p!ssed of Tories voting. Wouldn't be hard to get the numbers after any election.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 24, 2024, 09:51:08 PMPetition Call a General Election I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election. (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143)
Only started a couple of days and there's 1.6 Million signatures
Elon working his democratic magic.
He can fúck right off, the South African hoor!
Sure he's championing tommy robinson today ... some operator!
Quote from: Sportacus on November 24, 2024, 10:20:00 PMQuote from: theskull1 on November 24, 2024, 09:51:08 PMPetition Call a General Election I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election. (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143)
Only started a couple of days and there's 1.6 Million signatures
It's strange how this has grown legs and yet they were lied to about Brexit and none of them would dare mention it.
The very same "Revoke Article 50" poll achieved over 6 million signatures, not sure if that got the time of day either.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 25, 2024, 01:20:53 PMQuote from: Sportacus on November 24, 2024, 10:20:00 PMQuote from: theskull1 on November 24, 2024, 09:51:08 PMPetition Call a General Election I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election. (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143)
Only started a couple of days and there's 1.6 Million signatures
It's strange how this has grown legs and yet they were lied to about Brexit and none of them would dare mention it.
The very same "Revoke Article 50" poll achieved over 6 million signatures, not sure if that got the time of day either.
Breaking News: Conservative and Reform voters not happy with Labour in government. 38 million of the 48 million votes cast in the GE didn't go to labour so Keir has rightly laughed off this petition with a couple of million disgruntled voters from all across the globe
British borrowing hit new highs today. It won't be long until they have to abandon their last budget.
Not the general election but this is the nearest thing we have to a UK politics thread
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c39jedewxp8t
Reform win a by-election, a few mayors, a bunch of councils and most seats and votes
Now we will see if they can actually govern. Running something is a lot more difficult than being on the side complaining.
Quote from: dec on May 02, 2025, 07:19:48 PMNot the general election but this is the nearest thing we have to a UK politics thread
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c39jedewxp8t
Reform win a by-election, a few mayors, a bunch of councils and most seats and votes
Now we will see if they can actually govern. Running something is a lot more difficult than being on the side complaining.
Reform are all hat and no cattle.
They have no answers.
Peter Mandelson with one of the most Trump kiss ass interviews I've seen on BBC tonight.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/25156436.fury-scotland-wales-keir-starmers-speak-english-post/
Tory Lite are starting to go full Tory now. I wonder is that what people thought they were voting for.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 15, 2025, 09:33:40 AMhttps://www.thenational.scot/news/25156436.fury-scotland-wales-keir-starmers-speak-english-post/
Tory Lite are starting to go full Tory now. I wonder is that what people thought they were voting for.
Starmer pooing his pants over Reform's recent election results.