could be worse a day out in HQ ;)
Or Dublin v Armagh?
Armagh are well capable of winning this.
GAA Qualifier draw – Football Round 3 – Sunday 11th July
http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2010/07/11/gaa-qualifier-draw-football-round-3-sunday-11th-july/
Tony Davis tips Armagh.
Another hard to call game for Armagh. Dublin have won their games through fitness, and Armagh are a team that will challenge them in this department.
tony has a thing for armagh always tips them. armagh by 2 or three points. kernan to shine this time.
Armagh's best effort under McDonnell's management was the league game against Dublin.
I hear Sludden got it.
:D sludsies days in croker are over, ::) seriously though if louth dont get a replay i want them to get til an all irl final against-- US!
Armagh will be clear favourites for this one. Dublin have struggled thus far and and will go in as rank outsiders after yesterday's game. Really if it was in Cross you'd be questioning whether you'd waste the petrol. Hopefully we can make it competitive for the cameras anyway.
Would fancy Armagh to win this one,and if they do they will have some confidence going into the next round.
The match will presumably be live which rules out 2pm and 4pm on Sunday. Could be 6pm on Sunday, but more likely to be Saturday.
Might be a double bill with Dubs v Antrim (or with Meath v Louth ;) )
Isnt it amazing that Dublin got a home draw again?
Will it be in Parnell Park :D ;D
Quote from: Hound on July 11, 2010, 07:45:48 PM
The match will presumably be live which rules out 2pm and 4pm on Sunday. Could be 6pm on Sunday, but more likely to be Saturday.
Might be a double bill with Dubs v Antrim (or with Meath v Louth ;) )
Armagh minors out on Sunday, so I'd say it'll definitely be on Saturday.
Yeah, they'll hardly let it clash with the Ulster Final.
Happy enough with this draw. It'll be a step up from Fermanagh and Donegal, but still very winnable. The Dubs here don't seem to rate their team, but we're nothing special ourselves. It really is a 50/50 game.
We put in a good showing next weekend and, regardless of the result, this year can go down as a success. League promotion achieved; the same number of Championship wins as the previous three years combined; several young players introduced and reintroduced; and a couple of run outs in Croke Park. Anything else achieved from next weekend on can be regarded as a bonus.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 11, 2010, 07:55:42 PM
Isnt it amazing that Dublin got a home draw again?
Will it be in Parnell Park :D ;D
It really should be to be honest, or say Navan, is it worthwhile opening Croke Park of 15,000? Not slagging the Dubs, no sets of fans are showing much support this year.
handy enough win for Dublin I'd expect !
Imo won't be the cakewalk all pundits forecast. Armagh will be the roaring favourites and I think the Dublin fans will flock back to this game.
Really hope though we don't disgrace/shame ourselves like we did in the 2nd half of the 2003 game (and indeed in both halves of the 1st 2003 game).
Quote from: Canalman on July 11, 2010, 08:44:46 PM
Imo won't be the cakewalk all pundits forecast. Armagh will be the roaring favourites and I think the Dublin fans will flock back to this game.
Really hope though we don't disgrace/shame ourselves like we did in the 2nd half of the 2003 game (and indeed in both halves of the 1st 2003 game).
:D feckin 'arse-boxing' canalman !!!
LOL
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 11, 2010, 08:36:09 PM
handy enough win for Dublin I'd expect !
I see you know as much about football as you do politics. Good lad
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 11, 2010, 08:49:41 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 11, 2010, 08:36:09 PM
handy enough win for Dublin I'd expect !
I see you know as much about football as you do politics. Good lad
I would rather a packed Parnell Park than the miserable atmosphere in Croke Park the other day. Armagh should defo go in as favourites but just because it is Dublin I reckon the bookies will have it even enough.
It is a pity they didnt get drawn away. Wouldn't it be great to get the Dubs playing an important game in somewhere like Newbridge or something. There would be a great atmosphere at the game.
Not being fancied to win though might suit Dublin and give them some freedom. However I imagine Stephie and Co. will fancy their chances big time of getting the better of the Dubs defence.
Quote from: put-it-up on July 11, 2010, 08:59:21 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 11, 2010, 08:49:41 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 11, 2010, 08:36:09 PM
handy enough win for Dublin I'd expect !
I see you know as much about football as you do politics. Good lad
I would rather a packed Parnell Park than the miserable atmosphere in Croke Park the other day. Armagh should defo go in as favourites but just because it is Dublin I reckon the bookies will have it even enough.
It is a pity they didnt get drawn away. Wouldn't it be great to get the Dubs playing an important game in somewhere like Newbridge or something. There would be a great atmosphere at the game.
Not being fancied to win though might suit Dublin and give them some freedom. However I imagine Stephie and Co. will fancy their chances big time of getting the better of the Dubs defence.
true but the brogans won't be quaking in their boots at the prospect of facing a defence demolished by Monaghan. As said above by AFS 2 very evenly matched average outfits. Could be very high scoring. 2 very leaky defences.
Will it be in Croker? Are the Dublin hurlers at home?
Quote from: INDIANA on July 11, 2010, 09:15:06 PM
Quote from: put-it-up on July 11, 2010, 08:59:21 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 11, 2010, 08:49:41 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 11, 2010, 08:36:09 PM
handy enough win for Dublin I'd expect !
I see you know as much about football as you do politics. Good lad
I would rather a packed Parnell Park than the miserable atmosphere in Croke Park the other day. Armagh should defo go in as favourites but just because it is Dublin I reckon the bookies will have it even enough.
It is a pity they didnt get drawn away. Wouldn't it be great to get the Dubs playing an important game in somewhere like Newbridge or something. There would be a great atmosphere at the game.
Not being fancied to win though might suit Dublin and give them some freedom. However I imagine Stephie and Co. will fancy their chances big time of getting the better of the Dubs defence.
true but the brogans won't be quaking in their boots at the prospect of facing a defence demolished by Monaghan. As said above by AFS 2 very evenly matched average outfits. Could be very high scoring. 2 very leaky defences.
Not sure about that. Monaghan and Down league game excepted, our defence has been solid enough this year. It's when we lose a man that things go belly up. If we're beat, it'll be because we haven't been able to get enough ball into our FF line.
Quote from: AFS on July 11, 2010, 09:27:12 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 11, 2010, 09:15:06 PM
Quote from: put-it-up on July 11, 2010, 08:59:21 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 11, 2010, 08:49:41 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 11, 2010, 08:36:09 PM
handy enough win for Dublin I'd expect !
I see you know as much about football as you do politics. Good lad
I would rather a packed Parnell Park than the miserable atmosphere in Croke Park the other day. Armagh should defo go in as favourites but just because it is Dublin I reckon the bookies will have it even enough.
It is a pity they didnt get drawn away. Wouldn't it be great to get the Dubs playing an important game in somewhere like Newbridge or something. There would be a great atmosphere at the game.
Not being fancied to win though might suit Dublin and give them some freedom. However I imagine Stephie and Co. will fancy their chances big time of getting the better of the Dubs defence.
true but the brogans won't be quaking in their boots at the prospect of facing a defence demolished by Monaghan. As said above by AFS 2 very evenly matched average outfits. Could be very high scoring. 2 very leaky defences.
Not sure about that. Monaghan and Down league game excepted, our defence has been solid enough this year. It's when we lose a man that things go belly up. If we're beat, it'll be because we haven't been able to get enough ball into our FF line.
solid against div2 outfits though. Ours isn't much better
Quote from: Rossfan on July 11, 2010, 07:55:42 PM
Isnt it amazing that Dublin got a home draw again?
Will it be in Parnell Park :D ;D
First team drawn out got home advantage.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 11, 2010, 09:44:16 PM
solid against div2 outfits though. Ours isn't much better
Aye, maybe. But I wouldn't dismiss their credentials on the back of the Monaghan game, where the second half circumstances did not allow for fair assessment.
Quote from: put-it-up on July 11, 2010, 08:59:21 PM
I would rather a packed Parnell Park than the miserable atmosphere in Croke Park the other day.
Sure it'd be grand if they had a double header with the Louth Meath replay! :P
When will we know where and when this is?
Hard to decide who i'd like see bate in this game
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 11, 2010, 10:39:41 PM
Hard to decide who i'd like see bate in this game
Well look on the brightside. Its rare Laois football fans have to worry about making any travel arrangements in July to attend inter county championship football games. Think of all the money being saved.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 11, 2010, 10:31:29 PM
When will we know where and when this is?
Tommorow afternoon I would imagine
Quote from: INDIANA on July 11, 2010, 11:07:22 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 11, 2010, 10:39:41 PM
Hard to decide who i'd like see bate in this game
Well look on the brightside. Its rare Laois football fans have to worry about making any travel arrangements in July to attend inter county championship football games. Think of all the money being saved.
Odd post... On the coke again
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 11, 2010, 10:25:47 PM
Quote from: put-it-up on July 11, 2010, 08:59:21 PM
I would rather a packed Parnell Park than the miserable atmosphere in Croke Park the other day.
Sure it'd be grand if they had a double header with the Louth Meath replay! :P
That would draw a fine crowd to Croke Park.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 11, 2010, 10:39:41 PM
Hard to decide who i'd like see bate in this game
Surely you can support our lads now that they won't be scourging laois?
Think that it's a great draw, hard to beat going down to Croker to play the Dubs, great to get away from the Ulster teams. I'd disagree with Indiana, if we can keep the Brogans quiet, which I believe we can, then we'll keep the Dubs fairly quiet up front. Bernard won't come up against a better FB this year and hopefully Andy Mallon can build on a good showing today............still worry about Vincie Martin though. Our HB line is solid.
It's further up the field I'd worry about with our MF and HF line looking very weak unless we can get Toner and Lavery fit.
McDonnell and Clarke will create havoc in the Dubs full back line if we can get possession into them.
A good draw for both teams who will fancy their chances, Dubs at home will probably be slight bookies favourites I'd imagine. i wouldn't go in full of confidence but certainly there's nothing to fear. MF would be our biggest fear, we really do need Toner and Lavery in there and I suspect they will be. I was really shocked that the team that was named v Fermanagh actually started, if we start with that side again, we will get gubbed - a HF line that has zero to offer at this level. Will be an excellent morale boost for the winner.
This year's championship really is shit btw, an awful lot of mediocre teams about. Cannon fodder for the Munster boyos. Tyrone can delude themselves for another few weeks yet that they are still at these boys level.
Dispite Dublin not taking the conventional route, they would have to fancy themselves against a weak Armagh side too heavily dependent on their aging marque forward.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 11, 2010, 10:39:41 PM
Hard to decide who i'd like see bate in this game
Whats your gripe with Armagh, apart from the pastings we have handed ye ?
Quote from: Bensars on July 12, 2010, 10:16:19 AM
Dispite Dublin not taking the conventional route, they would have to fancy themselves against a weak Armagh side too heavily dependent on their aging marque forward.
Go fish somewhere else.
Quotea weak Armagh side too heavily dependent on their aging marque forward.
perhaps you meant marquee?
(http://www.hireshopseaford.com.au/images/Marquee.JPG)
Fair enough !
On a serious note, if Mc Donnell is kept quiet by the Dubs is there enough of a scoring threat elsewhere ?
Quote from: Bensars on July 12, 2010, 12:23:37 PM
Fair enough !
On a serious note, if Mc Donnell is kept quiet by the Dubs is there enough of a scoring threat elsewhere ?
Have you missed J Clarke?
Quote from: Bensars on July 12, 2010, 12:23:37 PM
Fair enough !
On a serious note, if Mc Donnell is kept quiet by the Dubs is there enough of a scoring threat elsewhere ?
Who would Dublin put on McDonnell?
Is Ronan Clarke still out?
My first thought was that the Dubs get home advantage (again) but on second thoughts, that won't make a blind bit of difference to Armagh.
Almost sure I heard RTE refer to one of the Louth lads yesterday as Ronan Clarke (together with a heap more commentating mistakes).
Quote from: Orior on July 12, 2010, 12:45:57 PM
Quote from: Bensars on July 12, 2010, 12:23:37 PM
Fair enough !
On a serious note, if Mc Donnell is kept quiet by the Dubs is there enough of a scoring threat elsewhere ?
Who would Dublin put on McDonnell?
You mean how many?
Fixture confirmed:
Saturday 17th July
Croke Park
3pm Dublin v Antrim
5pm Dublin v Armagh
GAA Qualifier times dates and venues – Football Round 3 – Saturday 17th & Sunday 18th July
http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2010/07/12/weekend-gaa-fixtures-saturday-17th-sunday-18th-july-2010/
Quote from: bennydorano on July 12, 2010, 12:56:41 AM
A good draw for both teams who will fancy their chances, Dubs at home will probably be slight bookies favourites I'd imagine. i wouldn't go in full of confidence but certainly there's nothing to fear. MF would be our biggest fear, we really do need Toner and Lavery in there and I suspect they will be. I was really shocked that the team that was named v Fermanagh actually started, if we start with that side again, we will get gubbed - a HF line that has zero to offer at this level. Will be an excellent morale boost for the winner.
This year's championship really is shit btw, an awful lot of mediocre teams about. Cannon fodder for the Munster boyos. Tyrone can delude themselves for another few weeks yet that they are still at these boys level.
You'll get over 2003 and 2005 yet. Tyrone will be alright.
Didn't take much getting over, I'm not a child.
It's definately still bugging you when your coming out with comments like that in a thread about a game between Dublin and Armagh.
General comment fit for numerous threads, maybe I'll ask you next time I want to post something slightly of topic?
Good to see it doesn't bother you that I personally think Tyrone are not as good as they were ::) Big tickle lad
Quote from: Hotrocks on July 11, 2010, 07:09:12 PM
I hear Sludden got it.
Hopefully with both barrels at close range
Quote from: Orior on July 12, 2010, 12:45:57 PM
Quote from: Bensars on July 12, 2010, 12:23:37 PM
Fair enough !
On a serious note, if Mc Donnell is kept quiet by the Dubs is there enough of a scoring threat elsewhere ?
Who would Dublin put on McDonnell?
Gay O Driscoll.
Armaghs defence although nervous are slighty better than dublins, stevie and young clarke are gonna love cluxton leaving an empty net to go and take a 45' :) provided hearty can give it out quickly that is. it could be some fun. managing a team in croke park will be new ground for POR as well, the last crowd didnt really give him much opportunity :D
Quote from: lawnseed on July 12, 2010, 10:08:23 PM
managing a team in croke park will be new ground for POR as well, the last crowd didnt really give him much opportunity :D
NFL D2 final was in Croke Park...
in the championship! i do refer to "the last crowd" you know who...
Dublin are pure doirt at present, not much better than the worst in Ulster and Armagh will coast this one so put your house on them.
Quote from: lawnseed on July 12, 2010, 10:17:59 PM
in the championship! i do refer to "the last crowd" you know who...
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/4991/dowx.gif) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/dowx.gif/)
QuoteNFL D2 final was in Croke Park...
I am not at all sure that Dublin are that bad, but it is useful that the younger Armagh players have had a winning experience in Croke Pk.
Of the likely 30 starting players I would wonder who has played most times in Croker. I remember meeting an Armagh statistician in 2005 or 2006 and he said that Armagh played more games in Croke Park between 2000 and 2005 than any other team including Dublin
wonder if my old park space is still there, somebody bring a consaw just incase :)
Quote from: David McKeown on July 12, 2010, 11:18:49 PM
Of the likely 30 starting players I would wonder who has played most times in Croker. I remember meeting an Armagh statistician in 2005 or 2006 and he said that Armagh played more games in Croke Park between 2000 and 2005 than any other team including Dublin
For Armagh im guessing in order of appearances at Croke Park it would look something like this...
2000-2006
1. McDonnell - Would be safe to say that he was at almost all of them.
2. R Clarke - From 2002 he has been at almost every Croke Park appearance
3. Hearty - Has played in goal for Armagh since 2003
4. McKeever - 2005
5. A Kernan - 2005
6. P Duffy - Not sure
7. B Mallon - Not sure
8. A Mallon - Not sure
Also to add to that the U21 success in 2004 and in regards with the Cross players all Ireland club final appreances.
In 2008 initiation of Fin Mo; K Toner; C Vernon and M O'Rouke to the team.
And now in 2010 I would say all the team has played at croker.
Would say the Armagh team is more equipped for the big occassion.
6. P Duffy - 2006 v Kerry???
7. B Mallon - 2004
8. A Mallon - 2003
the Down game was helpful as it prevented the Wexford debacle being the last game.
McDonnell has been to Croke Park twice this year. U2 concert and NFL final
Quote from: armaghniac on July 13, 2010, 12:03:59 AM
6. P Duffy - 2006 v Kerry???
7. B Mallon - 2004
8. A Mallon - 2003
the Down game was helpful as it prevented the Wexford debacle being the last game.
P Duffy indeed played there against Kerry in 2006. Not sure about the Mallon's I can't remember how old they are.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 12, 2010, 11:47:25 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on July 12, 2010, 11:18:49 PM
Of the likely 30 starting players I would wonder who has played most times in Croker. I remember meeting an Armagh statistician in 2005 or 2006 and he said that Armagh played more games in Croke Park between 2000 and 2005 than any other team including Dublin
For Armagh im guessing in order of appearances at Croke Park it would look something like this...
2000-2006
1. McDonnell - Would be safe to say that he was at almost all of them.
2. R Clarke - From 2002 he has been at almost every Croke Park appearance
3. Hearty - Has played in goal for Armagh since 2003
4. McKeever - 2005
5. A Kernan - 2005
6. P Duffy - Not sure
7. B Mallon - Not sure
8. A Mallon - Not sure
Also to add to that the U21 success in 2004 and in regards with the Cross players all Ireland club final appreances.
In 2008 initiation of Fin Mo; K Toner; C Vernon and M O'Rouke to the team.
And now in 2010 I would say all the team has played at croker.
Would say the Armagh team is more equipped for the big occassion.
If you think playing the current Dublin team is a big occasion then you must enjoy watching Derby County play Notts Forest on TV.
QuoteIf you think playing the current Dublin team is a big occasion then you must enjoy watching Derby County play Notts Forest on TV.
Both remind us of the good old days.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 13, 2010, 12:28:20 AM
QuoteIf you think playing the current Dublin team is a big occasion then you must enjoy watching Derby County play Notts Forest on TV.
Both remind us of the good old days.
Ha Ha. I like that. ;D
Regardless of the result this game isn't going to give any team the answers they need.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 12:34:07 AM
Regardless of the result this game isn't going to give any team the answers they need.
It will simply remind us of better days. Because both teams are so far away from 2002 and 2003 models its not funny.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 12:34:07 AM
Regardless of the result this game isn't going to give any team the answers they need.
We should probably ask them to redo the draw then. Waste of time this game, by the sounds of things.
QuoteIt will simply remind us of better days. Because both teams are so far away from 2002 and 2003 models its not funny.
Hopefully we have both declined in the same proportion.
As an aside for me the 2002 game was one of the highlights of the whole Armagh saga, the first full new Croker in full colour, hot day, close game.
Quote from: AFS on July 13, 2010, 12:42:17 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 12:34:07 AM
Regardless of the result this game isn't going to give any team the answers they need.
We should probably ask them to redo the draw then. Waste of time this game, by the sounds of things.
Neither side will make an imprint on the all-ireland series this year . Teams that get tanked by monaghan and meath generally don't. Still we'd enjoy the win for past defeats to armagh. A win however won't paper over the cracks for either. Doesn't mean I won't enjoy the day. This is potentially our only highpoint of the season.
Quote from: AFS on July 13, 2010, 12:42:17 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 12:34:07 AM
Regardless of the result this game isn't going to give any team the answers they need.
We should probably ask them to redo the draw then. Waste of time this game, by the sounds of things.
In terms of performance.
If we lose to Dublin easily we have gone backwards. How bad does that make Armagh look if Meath annihilated them. If we beat Dublin the question still remains how well have we progressed?
We have won more games this year than last year but when you look at the quality in the teams we have beaten it tarnishes how well the team have done.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2010, 12:47:23 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 13, 2010, 12:42:17 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 12:34:07 AM
Regardless of the result this game isn't going to give any team the answers they need.
We should probably ask them to redo the draw then. Waste of time this game, by the sounds of things.
Neither side will make an imprint on the all-ireland series this year . Teams that get tanked by monaghan and meath generally don't. Still we'd enjoy the win for past defeats to armagh. A win however won't paper over the cracks for either. Doesn't mean I won't enjoy the day. This is potentially our only highpoint of the season.
Armagh and Dublin won't win the AI [unless a miracle happens] but there is potential for a bit more progress, maybe even a last 4 depending on if the draw is kind.
Quote
Armagh and Dublin won't win the AI [unless a miracle happens] but there is potential for a bit more progress, maybe even a last 4 depending on if the draw is kind.
Armagh were never very likely to do big things this year, but with Ronan Clarke we might have taken a scalp, now we are firing on 3 cylinders at best.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 12:49:35 AM
If we lose to Dublin easily we have gone backwards. How bad does that make Armagh look if Meath annihilated them. If we beat Dublin the question still remains how well have we progressed?
We have won more games this year than last year but when you look at the quality in the teams we have beaten it tarnishes how well the team have done.
If we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2010, 12:47:23 AM
Neither side will make an imprint on the all-ireland series this year .
We're well aware of this. Has anyone suggested otherwise?
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2010, 12:47:23 AMA win however won't paper over the cracks for either.
This game isn't about papering over anything. Armagh are a work in progress. I'm hoping a win in Croke Park over a big name (which the Dubs still are, regardless of their struggles), and in front of a decent crowd, will help lay a couple more blocks in the foundations of future success.
QuoteIf we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.
Dont get me wrong I am more than delighted and if we do go out against Dublin I think it will be a successful season. Although it may seem harsh, this year has made me the proudest I have been of Armagh since 2005 and that is some comparison and that's even thorough 2 heavy defeats. Im still going to think it will be hard to see how good this team really is. There is a big performance in both of these teams and hopefully it will be on Saturday. The good thing about Armagh is that apart from the Meath game we have lost with 14 men and thats when and the only time Armagh seems to falls apart.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
QuoteIf we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.
Dont get me wrong I am more than delighted and if we do go out against Dublin I think it will be a successful season. Im still going to think it will be hard to see how good this team really is. There is a big performance in both of these teams and hopefully it will be on Saturday. The good thing about Armagh is that apart from the Meath game we have lost with 14 men and thats when this is the only time Armagh falls apart.
I'll tell you exactly how good they are: about 5 or 6 players short of an AI winning team. But it isn't about how good they are now, it's how good they are in 2012 or 2013 that matters. Anything achieved before then is a bonus.
Quote from: AFS on July 13, 2010, 01:41:44 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
QuoteIf we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.
Dont get me wrong I am more than delighted and if we do go out against Dublin I think it will be a successful season. Im still going to think it will be hard to see how good this team really is. There is a big performance in both of these teams and hopefully it will be on Saturday. The good thing about Armagh is that apart from the Meath game we have lost with 14 men and thats when this is the only time Armagh falls apart.
I'll tell you exactly how good they are: about 5 or 6 players short of an AI winning team. But it isn't about how good they are now, it's how good they are in 2012 or 2013 that we should be looking at. Anything achieved before then is a bonus.
Very true AFS. Would be exciting to see the options in attack in a few years and the midefield should be experienced enough and the defence will only get better. Would dare say we are near pushing it now, just need the midfield to get some experience and have some more consistent fowards.
Tyrone and Monaghan would have begun the rebuilding progress by then so don't think it will be long till Armagh are back on top of Ulster ;D
Quote from: AFS on July 13, 2010, 01:41:44 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
QuoteIf we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.
Dont get me wrong I am more than delighted and if we do go out against Dublin I think it will be a successful season. Im still going to think it will be hard to see how good this team really is. There is a big performance in both of these teams and hopefully it will be on Saturday. The good thing about Armagh is that apart from the Meath game we have lost with 14 men and thats when this is the only time Armagh falls apart.
I'll tell you exactly how good they are: about 5 or 6 players short of an AI winning team. But it isn't about how good they are now, it's how good they are in 2012 or 2013 that matters. Anything achieved before then is a bonus.
Its no coincidence that Armagh's two big defeats this year have been when that tool
Martin Sludden from Tyrone was the "referee". We've only lost one other competitive game this year and that was a game we really should have won against Meath back in February in Navan.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2010/0606/monaghan_armagh.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0322/1224266809592.html
Armagh can beat Dublin provided Sludden is not the referee. He should immediately hang up the whistle after his disgraceful decision to award Meath "the goal" in Sunday's Leinster final. An obvious square ball infringement, followed by a goal more akin to a rugby style try and then a failure to consult with his umpires should mean Sludden is dropped as a referee similar to what happened to poor referees in the world cup.
Quote from: PatDaly on July 13, 2010, 02:03:52 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 13, 2010, 01:41:44 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
QuoteIf we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.
Dont get me wrong I am more than delighted and if we do go out against Dublin I think it will be a successful season. Im still going to think it will be hard to see how good this team really is. There is a big performance in both of these teams and hopefully it will be on Saturday. The good thing about Armagh is that apart from the Meath game we have lost with 14 men and thats when this is the only time Armagh falls apart.
I'll tell you exactly how good they are: about 5 or 6 players short of an AI winning team. But it isn't about how good they are now, it's how good they are in 2012 or 2013 that matters. Anything achieved before then is a bonus.
Its no coincidence that Armagh's two big defeats this year have been when that tool Martin Sludden from Tyrone was the "referee". We've only lost one other competitive game this year and that was a game we really should have won against Meath back in February in Navan.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2010/0606/monaghan_armagh.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0322/1224266809592.html
Armagh can beat Dublin provided Sludden is not the referee. He should immediately hang up the whistle after his disgraceful decision to award Meath "the goal" in Sunday's Leinster final. An obvious square ball infringement, followed by a goal more akin to a rugby style try and then a failure to consult with his umpires should mean Sludden is dropped as a referee similar to what happened to poor referees in the world cup.
Ive never really had a dislike against any referee but for him I make the exception. Luckily he will not be ruining any teams ambitions for the rest of the year. Would be happy enough with Maurice Deegan, McEnaney or Micheal Duffy.
Quote from: drici on July 13, 2010, 02:21:26 AM
Dublin v Armagh
5-00pm Páirc an Chrócaigh
Referee: Joe Mc Quillan
Extra Time if required
Quote from: PatDaly on July 13, 2010, 02:03:52 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 13, 2010, 01:41:44 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
QuoteIf we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.
Dont get me wrong I am more than delighted and if we do go out against Dublin I think it will be a successful season. Im still going to think it will be hard to see how good this team really is. There is a big performance in both of these teams and hopefully it will be on Saturday. The good thing about Armagh is that apart from the Meath game we have lost with 14 men and thats when this is the only time Armagh falls apart.
I'll tell you exactly how good they are: about 5 or 6 players short of an AI winning team. But it isn't about how good they are now, it's how good they are in 2012 or 2013 that matters. Anything achieved before then is a bonus.
Its no coincidence that Armagh's two big defeats this year have been when that tool Martin Sludden from Tyrone was the "referee". We've only lost one other competitive game this year and that was a game we really should have won against Meath back in February in Navan.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2010/0606/monaghan_armagh.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0322/1224266809592.html
Armagh can beat Dublin provided Sludden is not the referee. He should immediately hang up the whistle after his disgraceful decision to award Meath "the goal" in Sunday's Leinster final. An obvious square ball infringement, followed by a goal more akin to a rugby style try and then a failure to consult with his umpires should mean Sludden is dropped as a referee similar to what happened to poor referees in the world cup.
Unreal. So its all a referrees fault. I assume from the time of your post that the paranoia was at its height.
For the record whatever you think of Martin Sludden, he hasnt been the cause of Armagh failing to build on their success in 2002 never mind 2010.
Both counties very much going through a period of rebuilding after losing a lot of established players over recent years. You shouldnt feel the need to use a scapegoat to justify inadequacies in performance.
Dublin to sqeeze out a win in what will hopefully be a good game for the neutral
Breaking news:
No inter-county referee has ever gone out with the objective of beating one team.
If anyone can prove otherwise, then I'll eat my hat.
Quote from: AFS on July 13, 2010, 03:20:44 AM
Quote from: drici on July 13, 2010, 02:21:26 AM
Dublin v Armagh
5-00pm Páirc an Chrócaigh
Referee: Joe Mc Quillan
Extra Time if required
Always thought that McQuillan was one of the better referees we have so I'm glad to see that appointment. This year is definitely about rebuilding, you can't just write off two teams just because they won't win Sam. It will be a great experience for our younger players to play the Dubs in Croke Park with 40-50k watching. It'll be interesting to see how they react. A few posters seemed to think that we have no leaders on our team after the Monaghan debacle but I'd expect Ciaran McKeever, Brendan Donaghy and Stevie McDonnell to lead our younger players on Saturday.
It's imperative that the right team takes to the field....some big selection issues for the management to take.
Quote from: Orior on July 13, 2010, 09:42:19 AM
Breaking news:
No inter-county referee has ever gone out with the objective of beating one team.
If anyone can prove otherwise, then I'll eat my hat.
Nobody will ever convince me that Kinneavey didn't cheat us out of thon Meath league game this year, 2 totally unexplainable decisions late on that gifted Meath 2 points.
People saying neither will be there in the final shake up - eh... tell us something we don't know. It's about development for Armagh, not sure what Gilroy's trying to achieve, he just seems to have dismantled a fairly young team and replaced it with a less effect fairly young team.
If Ronan clarke was playing I'd be fairly confident, without him I wouldn't be sure at all. Think we've a bit of a soft underbelly tbh, Dublin mightn't be good enough to expose it, but it will be exposed before the year's out. If Lavery and Toner are fit and ready to go we might sneak it.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 13, 2010, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 13, 2010, 09:42:19 AM
Breaking news:
No inter-county referee has ever gone out with the objective of beating one team.
If anyone can prove otherwise, then I'll eat my hat.
Nobody will ever convince me that Kinneavey didn't cheat us out of thon Meath league game this year, 2 totally unexplainable decisions late on that gifted Meath 2 points.
People saying neither will be there in the final shake up - eh... tell us something we don't know. It's about development for Armagh, not sure what Gilroy's trying to achieve, he just seems to have dismantled a fairly young team and replaced it with a less effect fairly young team.
If Ronan clarke was playing I'd be fairly confident, without him I wouldn't be sure at all. Think we've a bit of a soft underbelly tbh, Dublin mightn't be good enough to expose it, but it will be exposed before the year's out. If Lavery and Toner are fit and ready to go we might sneak it.
Ah will ye all leave us alone FFS! :P
Benny - write to the Meath players and ask for a replay. They are the go-to group for decisions like this. Well, them and Joe Duffy.
Quote from: Hardy on July 13, 2010, 02:38:03 PM
Benny - write to the Meath players and ask for a replay. They are the go-to group for decisions like this. Well, them and Joe Duffy.
Ahem, I think you'll find it's Phillip Boucher Hayes this week. Now there's a name u won't see on many teamsheets...
Looking forward to the match, two teams evenly match (IMO) and should be a decent game as Armagh tend to play a better more open game against our Southern Brethren. I agree that neither of these two teams will break much delph this year but it's all about building for the next 2-3 years for a team that can challenge for Sam
Quote from: PatDaly on July 13, 2010, 02:03:52 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 13, 2010, 01:41:44 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
QuoteIf we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.
Dont get me wrong I am more than delighted and if we do go out against Dublin I think it will be a successful season. Im still going to think it will be hard to see how good this team really is. There is a big performance in both of these teams and hopefully it will be on Saturday. The good thing about Armagh is that apart from the Meath game we have lost with 14 men and thats when this is the only time Armagh falls apart.
I'll tell you exactly how good they are: about 5 or 6 players short of an AI winning team. But it isn't about how good they are now, it's how good they are in 2012 or 2013 that matters. Anything achieved before then is a bonus.
Its no coincidence that Armagh's two big defeats this year have been when that tool Martin Sludden from Tyrone was the "referee". We've only lost one other competitive game this year and that was a game we really should have won against Meath back in February in Navan.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2010/0606/monaghan_armagh.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0322/1224266809592.html
Armagh can beat Dublin provided Sludden is not the referee. He should immediately hang up the whistle after his disgraceful decision to award Meath "the goal" in Sunday's Leinster final. An obvious square ball infringement, followed by a goal more akin to a rugby style try and then a failure to consult with his umpires should mean Sludden is dropped as a referee similar to what happened to poor referees in the world cup.
Are you having a laugh? Monaghan beat Armagh by 12 points. Had scored about 1-3 in a row and were well on top before Mallons sending off. You really think Armagh would have won the game with a different referee?
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on July 13, 2010, 03:07:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 13, 2010, 02:38:03 PM
Benny - write to the Meath players and ask for a replay. They are the go-to group for decisions like this. Well, them and Joe Duffy.
Ahem, I think you'll find it's Phillip Boucher Hayes this week. Now there's a name u won't see on many teamsheets...
Is he one of the Boucher-Hayes' from Tang?
REDHAND SANTA! I would keep it shtum about what people think about refs. You lot moan, shout and cry about EVERY free that goes against you, sure wasnt it the ref that lost you the Ulster Final in 2005? Shhh mate, worry about Monaghan on Sunday and stop makin yourself out to be an eejit.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on July 13, 2010, 04:20:34 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on July 13, 2010, 02:03:52 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 13, 2010, 01:41:44 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 13, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
QuoteIf we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.
Dont get me wrong I am more than delighted and if we do go out against Dublin I think it will be a successful season. Im still going to think it will be hard to see how good this team really is. There is a big performance in both of these teams and hopefully it will be on Saturday. The good thing about Armagh is that apart from the Meath game we have lost with 14 men and thats when this is the only time Armagh falls apart.
I'll tell you exactly how good they are: about 5 or 6 players short of an AI winning team. But it isn't about how good they are now, it's how good they are in 2012 or 2013 that matters. Anything achieved before then is a bonus.
Its no coincidence that Armagh's two big defeats this year have been when that tool Martin Sludden from Tyrone was the "referee". We've only lost one other competitive game this year and that was a game we really should have won against Meath back in February in Navan.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2010/0606/monaghan_armagh.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0322/1224266809592.html
Armagh can beat Dublin provided Sludden is not the referee. He should immediately hang up the whistle after his disgraceful decision to award Meath "the goal" in Sunday's Leinster final. An obvious square ball infringement, followed by a goal more akin to a rugby style try and then a failure to consult with his umpires should mean Sludden is dropped as a referee similar to what happened to poor referees in the world cup.
Are you having a laugh? Monaghan beat Armagh by 12 points. Had scored about 1-3 in a row and were well on top before Mallons sending off. You really think Armagh would have won the game with a different referee?
If Sludden wasn't from Tyrone you'd be 100% in agreement with me. The man is easily the worst inter-county referee in Ireland at the moment. Why can't he do like Bannon did and retire now? I'm sure some of the Dublin newspapers could give him a job.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 13, 2010, 04:24:10 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on July 13, 2010, 03:07:28 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 13, 2010, 02:38:03 PM
Benny - write to the Meath players and ask for a replay. They are the go-to group for decisions like this. Well, them and Joe Duffy.
Ahem, I think you'll find it's Phillip Boucher Hayes this week. Now there's a name u won't see on many teamsheets...
Is he one of the Boucher-Hayes' from Tang?
No that's a different Boucher-Hayes', there's about 4 of them...
In my opinion Sludden isnt a good referee. However to suggest he made the difference between Monaghan beating Armagh by 12 and Armagh winning the game is laughable.
Think we're generous enough odds at 13/8 to win this one. I'd have thought the betting would have been much more even. I'd assess this game as fairly 50/50. Dublin can't be as bad as they appeared aginst Wexford and Meath. I'd be fairly hopeful of a win and possibly even another match or two.
QuoteThink we're generous enough odds at 13/8 to win this one. I'd have thought the betting would have been much more even. I'd assess this game as fairly 50/50
The weight of money is always on Dublin. The bookies have thousands laid on Dublin to win the AI and will be happy to pay out to anyone who beats them. If you always bet against Dublin you'd generally come out ahead because of this mispricing.
QuoteI'd be fairly hopeful of a win and possibly even another match or two.
After this come the provincial losers. Limerick could be tough enough, but their frame of mind in relation to qualifiers is difficult to judge, likewise Louth. Roscommon will be probably be in there and Dublin or Armagh could handle them, I expect. Either Tyrone or Monaghan would be a tricky, though.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on July 13, 2010, 06:25:56 PM
In my opinion Sludden isnt a good referee. However to suggest he made the difference between Monaghan beating Armagh by 12 and Armagh winning the game is laughable.
Same thing happened against Down in the league. Armagh were battered by Down in the opening minutes but then Armagh started getting into their stride and then player sent off and the team collapsed. Against Monaghan the same thing happened but against much better opposition. You can't say that after less than 12 months Monaghan are 12 points better than Armagh. Not taking anything away from Monaghan here but when Armagh are reduced to 14 they fall apart.
Wow, I know the odds are always skewed but Armagh 13/8 and Dublin 8/13 is extraordinary!
I expect only one change in the Dublin defence. The very young and inexperienced full back line that struggled badly v Meath got their deserved 2nd chance v Tipp and did reasonably well, if you excuse the slip that led to the goal. Of course Tipp werent all that good. If anyone is under pressure it'd be McMahon, but I reckon he'll hold on.
Henry and Brennan are certs for the half back line. I don't think Cullen is in the running for a half back spot, so that leaves Nolan, Cahill and Casey for the last spot. Nolan wasnt all that bad and may get another chance, but he didnt get involved enough. A Cahill recalll would be a good sign.
Be interesting to see whether Fennell gets the recall at midfield. Some doubt over his fitness, and I get the feeling the management like having the option of a big man off the bench. McAuley will definitely start as he played well v Tipp. McConnell still frustrates as he doesnt win his fair share of high balls. He uses the ball well though and he got two points at the weekend so he'll keep his place.
I really hope Cullen starts at wing forward. So one or both of Flynn and Corkery will lose out. Personally I'd leave both out. Thngs didnt go that well for McManamon, despite his best efforts, so I reckon he'll lose out to Keaney.
Would be nice to get a win over a decent non-Leinster team, but no doubt that Armagh are the value bet.
As an aside its interesting to see Anthony Daly criticising Gilroy for not releasing O'Carroll to play in the U21 Leinster hurling final on Wednesday night:
"It just seems to me that some people in Dublin football are more worried about Dublin hurling than Armagh.
"It's unbelievable. We'll have four guys playing in the under 21 match and against next Saturday (against Antrim in the All-Ireland hurling qualifiers). The football management's point of view is that it's too much to ask him to play on Wednesday and again on Saturday. But he's 20 - a fit, young fella.
"Sixty minutes of hurling on Wednesday is not going to make him unavailable for Saturday. It's a joke - look how fellas last in the World Cup with matches every three or four days.
"How do they last on the Lions tour when they go and play twice a week? Rubbish. It's very disappointing - it's Rory's last year at under 21 and he's always given commitment to hurling."
EDIT!
The DCB have intervened and instructed that O'Carroll be made available for the hurling game tonight.
EDIT EILE
He wasn't allowed play after all!
Great draw for Armagh, its an opportunity to gain real experience and see what the younger players are made of. I was at the fermanagh match on sunday, if we play anything like that next saturday we will be well beaten. It was quite a depressing perfromance. Both sides were appalling, Armagh agaion were very very negative, i lost cout the numbe rof times we broke into fermanaghs half of the field and there was only Clarke and mc donnell in our half of the field. Joe feeney had a nightmare, as did malachy mackin. Young clarke continues to impress, as doesswift who worked very hard. Hearty is playing very well at the moment. Big toner made a difference when he came on, I would start charlie in the half forwards against the dubs, who really struggle when run at. Looking forward to the match
QuoteThe DCB have intervened and instructed that O'Carroll be made available for the hurling game tonight.
Good news that
If Bastick is available I think he'll pick him in the HB line
Quote from: Declan on July 14, 2010, 09:53:37 AM
QuoteThe DCB have intervened and instructed that O'Carroll be made available for the hurling game tonight.
Good news that
If Bastick is available I think he'll pick him in the HB line
Forgot about Basto. I'm pretty sure he's available - suspension ended last Saturday night at midnight.
what was he suspended for ?
was it retrospective for breaking charlie vernon's jaw?
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 14, 2010, 10:45:58 AM
what was he suspended for ?
was it retrospective for breaking charlie vernon's jaw?
He challenge a player off the ball and got them with a high tackle.
I'm happy enough with Armagh's back six and goal keeper, 4 out of the six pick themselves and as for the other two positions I'm happy enough with whoever the put in as they're well capable. Midfield can hold it's own and break even with 80% of teams, our full forward line with Jamie Clarke and S McDonnell are two class acts. I know if Ronan clarke was fit that it would be the best full forward line in Ireland but it's Armagh's half forward line that's killing us and has been for the last 4 years, we just can't seem to pull a couple of natural scorers for that position.
We've tried everything the last few years and it hasn't worked, we have a defender playing at CF, we have midfielders playing wing half forward (and even corner forward) but until we get natural half forwards then we can forget about challenging for major honours. the Armagh team is fairly decent with only a few positions to fill to make us into a top team again.
A win on sat would be great and would give the young members of the team a major boost and i expect Armagh to win this one by 2pts
"natural half forwards" are a myth in the modern game. its a creative playmaker needed at centre forward - which we dont have - and two footballers at wing forward that can defend without the ball, win possession and support the attack.
Quote from: Uladh on July 14, 2010, 12:22:32 PM
"natural half forwards" are a myth in the modern game. its a creative playmaker needed at centre forward - which we dont have - and two footballers at wing forward that can defend without the ball, win possession and support the attack.
I think that Nippy is growing into this role and the fact that he isn't the finished article just yet is down to the previous management not even including him in last year's panel!! Some posters seem to think he's a midfielder but he has played a good bit of football in the forward line and can take a score. Young Grugan is my big hope for another wing forward and would like to see him taken through the ranks ASAP. CHF remains a problem though. We've been unlucky with injuries to Toner, Lavery and Ronan Clarke as we would be closer to a team challenging for honours with all these on board.
Quote from: Uladh on July 14, 2010, 12:22:32 PM
"natural half forwards" are a myth in the modern game. its a creative playmaker needed at centre forward - which we dont have - and two footballers at wing forward that can defend without the ball, win possession and support the attack.
Sorry don't agree with ya there, the Cf should yes in theory be a creative playmaker but the other two half forwards need to be scoring forwards who can put the ball over the bar, our problem is we have half forwards that are natural midfielders and are not known for their scoring abilities which snowballs more pressure on our FF line, yes they work hard and defend but cause little to no scoring threat whatsoever and until that changes we will not be competing for major honours.
Cork, Kerry and Tyrone have 6 scoring forwards and that's why they're the top 3 teams in the country
I agree with Mackers that Rory Grugan is perhaps a natural half forward and should be brought on asap. he started for U.21's this year and was one of the best players on view. next year should be his year to begin to establish himself. Brian Dooher was won an all-ireland minor in 1993 and was drafted on to the senior panel in 1995 it hasn't harmed him any.
Lyons backs Dubs
Former Dublin manager Tommy Lyons
14 July 2010
Tommy Lyons has tipped Dublin to beat what he regards as an over-rated Armagh team in Saturday's All-Ireland football qualifier at Croke Park.
The Orchard County put paid to Dublin's All-Ireland ambitions in 2002 and 2003 when Lyons was Dubs boss, but he is confident that the Metropolitans will avenge those defeats at the weekend.
"I think Dublin can only improve and I think Armagh haven't really improved," he said.
"They won the league (Division 2) and then they didn't play well the first day.
"Donegal were dispirited, it was local rivalry against Fermanagh, and Armagh aren't as good as people think they are - they are untested. I think if Dublin get pace into their play, they will win.
"The big problem is if they allow their full back line to be exposed again and Jamie Clarke and Steven McDonnell will do damage. I like (Eoghan) O'Gara, (Michael Darragh) McAuley and the two Brogans."
Tommy Lyons is my octopus in reverse. I'm lumping on Armagh.
What I would like to see next year is a lot of new young forwards for Armagh. Who better to learn from Stevie McDonnell and Ronan Clarke.
This was always my problem with our midfield. Toal and Loughran were always going to replace McGrane and McGeeney when they left. Unfortuantely Toal's career was ended and Loughran never played again and because of it the Midfielders were thrown in at the deep end.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 14, 2010, 10:45:58 AM
what was he suspended for ?
was it retrospective for breaking charlie vernon's jaw?
Vernon got a hospital ball and Bastic went for it with his eyes on the ball - that notwithstanding, I hear Mickey Linden is doing up his dental expenses arising out of a challenge from your erstwhile fullback..
Hound, I would not agree that the Dublin full back did well against Tipperary. The Tipperary full forward line scored 1-11, of which 1-6 was from play. Barry Grogan and Philip Austin are probably Tipp's best players, but Stevie McDonnell is something special and young Clarke looks to be a very promisiing player. I think the Dublin full back line will find the going tough on Saturday, but maybe the Brogans will swing it for Dublin.
In fairness Onlooker, Grogan got all his scores from frees, bar the goal which was a slip from O'Connell. Both Dublin and Armagh are very much in the chasing pack and I think that both teams have a great chance this weekend. As long as the doesn't meet Cork, Kerry or Tyrone (maybe) then they could go far. I fancy Dublin to win this but that maybe due to the fact that I haven't seen as much of Armagh so I can't really judge them. If the rumours of discontent in Dublin camp are true I may have to change my mind, but on the basis that things are ok I think Dublin have enough to win in CP and have a bit more on the bench to change things if needed.
Quote from: illdecide on July 14, 2010, 12:54:56 PM
Quote from: Uladh on July 14, 2010, 12:22:32 PM
"natural half forwards" are a myth in the modern game. its a creative playmaker needed at centre forward - which we dont have - and two footballers at wing forward that can defend without the ball, win possession and support the attack.
Sorry don't agree with ya there, the Cf should yes in theory be a creative playmaker but the other two half forwards need to be scoring forwards who can put the ball over the bar, our problem is we have half forwards that are natural midfielders and are not known for their scoring abilities which snowballs more pressure on our FF line, yes they work hard and defend but cause little to no scoring threat whatsoever and until that changes we will not be competing for major honours.
Cork, Kerry and Tyrone have 6 scoring forwards and that's why they're the top 3 teams in the country
eh, kerry play galvin and a midfielder in the half forward line - donnacha walsh at the min
Cork play goold and pearse o'neill in the half forward line - two midfielders
Tyrone play dooher and mcmahon there.
None of those six are natural scoring forwards. one or two points a game each, if that.
Quote from: heffo on July 14, 2010, 03:55:51 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 14, 2010, 10:45:58 AM
what was he suspended for ?
was it retrospective for breaking charlie vernon's jaw?
Vernon got a hospital ball and Bastic went for it with his eyes on the ball - that notwithstanding, I hear Mickey Linden is doing up his dental expenses arising out of a challenge from your erstwhile fullback..
Would agree with this and nobody from Armagh complained at the time. On saying that Brian Mallon got sent off against Monaghan for a much less dangerous tackle so you never know. But then again who was the referee in that game.
It is also relevant, zulu, that some or most of those frees, if I remember correctly were conceded by the Dublin full back line. Some defender has to be at fault for conceding the frees that are scored.
Quote from: heffo on July 14, 2010, 03:55:51 PM
Vernon got a hospital ball and Bastic went for it with his eyes on the ball - that notwithstanding, I hear Mickey Linden is doing up his dental expenses arising out of a challenge from your erstwhile fullback..
I was at the match and was fairly close to the incident. I am not sure if it was a hospital ball and I am not sure that Bastic went for the ball either, not complaining about it just saying it like I saw it.
In two minds. All the issues in the camp aren't going to help for the game. They aren't rumours unfortunately. However I don't believe Armagh are that good that Dublin on a good day couldn't beat them. However armagh's team represents a far better base for the future then ours.
50/50 game. Two teams coming off the back of tankings against average enough opposition. I'd be hoping dublin are due a win against armagh
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 14, 2010, 05:40:44 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 14, 2010, 03:55:51 PM
Vernon got a hospital ball and Bastic went for it with his eyes on the ball - that notwithstanding, I hear Mickey Linden is doing up his dental expenses arising out of a challenge from your erstwhile fullback..
I was at the match and was fairly close to the incident. I am not sure if it was a hospital ball and I am not sure that Bastic went for the ball either, not complaining about it just saying it like I saw it.
I was at it too and was also close to it and I don't remember anyone from Armagh complaining about it at the time
I'm more confident of Armagh beating Dublin than I was of them beating Fermanagh....strange.
QuoteI'm more confident of Armagh beating Dublin than I was of them beating Fermanagh....strange.
Strange indeed. I hope you are right. But the crannog dwellers have drawn with us and beaten us in the last 6 years, I am not quite sure when Dublin last beat us, but it is twice as long. But they are due a victory.
Last time Dublin beat Armagh in a championship game was in 1977.
Last time Dublin beat Armagh in All Competitions was in 1999 in an NFL game. The scoreline was 0-14 to 0-6
Overall their head to head record in all competitions is Dublin 12 wins. Armagh 8. Draws 4.
In the last 10 years Dublin have not beaten Armagh once.
In the last 10 years Dublin have only beaten 1 Northern team.
Although we have a great record against Dublin in recent years history means nothing.
Strangely im slightly more confident in playing Dublin than I was against Fermanagh but not a lot more confident. Im wary of Dublin because they are eventually going to put in a big performance and I don't think they are as bad as people think. They seem to have taken on a similiar persona to Tyrone and Kerry - Struggle in the qualifiers and then they will show their true selves.
QuoteIn the last 10 years Dublin have only beaten 1 Northern team.
They must be glad that Down is in the same division now!
Quote
They seem to have taken on a similiar persona to Tyrone and Kerry - Struggle in the qualifiers and then they will show their true selves.
I think Dublin can play better, but so can Mayo, and look where they are.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 14, 2010, 11:54:57 PM
QuoteIn the last 10 years Dublin have only beaten 1 Northern team.
They must be glad that Down is in the same division now!
Quote
They seem to have taken on a similiar persona to Tyrone and Kerry - Struggle in the qualifiers and then they will show their true selves.
I think Dublin can play better, but so can Mayo, and look where they are.
The reason I think Mayo went out is due to a lack of respect for opposition Longford are ranked something between 20-25. Same happened to Armagh in 2004 Fermanagh, although I will grant you that Fermanagh are better that Longford by a good bit.
Like I said im unconvinced, although it is 50/50 going on performances I think that there is something to be wary about with Dublin. Its a question of who is more disciplined and who looks more capable of putting in a big performance. Armagh look the more likely to do this. Im just going to talk myself out of my opinions again and watch Dublin vs Wexford all voer again
The game is so hard to call because no one has the first clue as to what Armagh and Dublin teams will turn up. Both have the possibility to be scintillating on their day, both have the distinct possibility of being complete crap as well. Thus the uncertainty.
Given the game is in Croke Park and with all the Dublin trappings that go with it, the Dubs would have to be favourite. But who knows, J. Clarke and McDonnell could knock in a couple of goals in the first 15 minutes and anything could happen......Carlsberg don't do games but.....
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 14, 2010, 11:41:39 PM
In the last 10 years Dublin have only beaten 1 Northern team.
Obviously you must be talking about championship given we've beaten Tyrone, Monaghan and Derry this year alone in the league.
Though, from memory, I believe you are wrong regarding the championship also.
In the last 10 years Dublin have beaten 2 Nothern teams in the championship (Derry and Donegal) and lost to 2 Northern teams in the championship (Tyrone and Armagh).
Quote from: Hound on July 15, 2010, 07:10:14 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 14, 2010, 11:41:39 PM
In the last 10 years Dublin have only beaten 1 Northern team.
Obviously you must be talking about championship given we've beaten Tyrone, Monaghan and Derry this year alone in the league.
Though, from memory, I believe you are wrong regarding the championship also.
In the last 10 years Dublin have beaten 2 Nothern teams in the championship (Derry and Donegal) and lost to 2 Northern teams in the championship (Tyrone and Armagh).
Not to mention the fact that Dublin have been taking a very direct route over the years leaving less opportunity to meet these teams.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 14, 2010, 04:47:15 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 14, 2010, 12:54:56 PM
Quote from: Uladh on July 14, 2010, 12:22:32 PM
"natural half forwards" are a myth in the modern game. its a creative playmaker needed at centre forward - which we dont have - and two footballers at wing forward that can defend without the ball, win possession and support the attack.
Sorry don't agree with ya there, the Cf should yes in theory be a creative playmaker but the other two half forwards need to be scoring forwards who can put the ball over the bar, our problem is we have half forwards that are natural midfielders and are not known for their scoring abilities which snowballs more pressure on our FF line, yes they work hard and defend but cause little to no scoring threat whatsoever and until that changes we will not be competing for major honours.
Cork, Kerry and Tyrone have 6 scoring forwards and that's why they're the top 3 teams in the country
eh, kerry play galvin and a midfielder in the half forward line - donnacha walsh at the min
Cork play goold and pearse o'neill in the half forward line - two midfielders
Tyrone play dooher and mcmahon there.
None of those six are natural scoring forwards. one or two points a game each, if that.
you've sort of proved rather than disproved the point there as well duffleking. The players you've mentioned arent recognised as the scoring threat of their teams but still REGULARLY post a couple of scores from play. Absolutely priceless from the half forward line. We dont have anyone who will post more than 1 (if any) score from play at the minute. I would surmise we contribute - on a regular basis - 2 points from HF. Tyrone, Cork, Kerry all post - regularly - 6 or 7 points from the HF line. that is the major over riding difference between them and teams like ourselves in the chasing pack IMO.
Correct Eireogatron thats the point i was trying to make, fair enough Duffleking said they're more natural midfielders and i take that point but they're playing half forward and as he pointed out they score 1-2pts a game each which we don't get and in my opinion that's Armagh's biggest downfall and has been for the last 4-5 years
That's a bit of a myth too. for each of the 6 "half forwards" named, they don't score at all in as many games as they do. for example, the munster final last weekend brought a point for darren o'sullivan (playing the galvin role) and nothing from donnacha walsh. Swift also scored a point last weekend
Nippy & Aaron seem to score regular enough... though Aaron less from play now that's he's in the forwards ironically.
I always thought he looked better coming from deep. His big brother Stephen can do what he's doing now...
Quote from: Hound on July 15, 2010, 07:10:14 AM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 14, 2010, 11:41:39 PM
In the last 10 years Dublin have only beaten 1 Northern team.
Obviously you must be talking about championship given we've beaten Tyrone, Monaghan and Derry this year alone in the league.
Though, from memory, I believe you are wrong regarding the championship also.
In the last 10 years Dublin have beaten 2 Nothern teams in the championship (Derry and Donegal) and lost to 2 Northern teams in the championship (Tyrone and Armagh).
Donegal isn't a northern team ;)
Quote from: eireogatron on July 15, 2010, 10:08:28 AM
Tyrone, Cork, Kerry all post - regularly - 6 or 7 points from the HF line. that is the major over riding difference between them and teams like ourselves in the chasing pack IMO.
The stats from this year's championship don't really bare this out. In Tyrone's two games, their starting half forward line have contributed 6 points from play in total, although they move about a fair bit so a lot of the time it's difficult to identify a Tyrone HF. In Cork's two and a half games against Kerry, ignoring their turkey shoot last weekend, their HFs also contributed 6 points from play. Kerry's HF line contributed just 4 points from play in those same games.
So I think the need for heavy scoring half forwards is overstated a bit. Each of those teams have excellent FF lines that do the lion's share of their scoring and have midfielders and HBs that chip in almost as regularly as their HFs.
Ignoring the Donegal match, Armagh's HF line this year have contributed around a point a game. A couple more points per game, not a massive improvement, from this line would be enough to see us begin to compete with the top teams in this regard. However, bringing about this improvement is not as simple as just sticking different lads into the 10, 11 and 12 jerseys, as some have suggested. A bit of a change in the style of play might be needed to get those lads closer to goals. I think a lot of it boils down to possession too. If you're on top in the possession stakes then your HFs can get forward more frequently and not have to worry as much about defending. Dangerous as it is to read too much into a game where the opposition gives up after 10 minutes, I think it's still worth noting that Armagh dominated possession against Donegal and we saw Aaron Kernan and Joe Feeney both get forward for a couple of points. In other games this year we've struggled for the ball, and it's probably obvious enough that this has played a part in the low totals posted, not just by the HF line, but the team as a whole.
Lads if a half forward contribute 6 scores, especially from play, then they are making a massive addition to a teams scoring potential. If you accept that your FF line get the same and you pick up another 2 scores from frees then you have 14 scores which woould give you a decent chance of winning most games. I agree with AFS, Armagh probably need to change their style of play a bit and try to get the HF line into scoring positions more often. If defences know that your HF line pose a threat then you tend to develop more space for your FF also.
look at these teams throughout the last 2-3 years, not just 2 matches and the stats should bear out. Galvin, Dooher, McMahon, McGuigan, Kerrigan etc all regularly contribute scores. Our half forward line does not I'm afraid - Dublin are another example (last year), they romped Leinster and all 6 forwards were scoring, as well as boys from the bench. monaghan this year are another example of scores all over the park and they are flying.
duffleking- nippy was named a full forward. fair enough he played around the middle but if he goes out then its another forward less that we have inside.
I dont actually think that the HF lines I mentioned are "prolific" but if you look at the scores that win championship matches these days - sometimes as low as 11 points is good enough, anywhere from 5 points up from the HF line is absolutely crucial. I cant see anyone disputing this rationally. As mentioned Kerry and Tyrone in particular have half backs in the mould of Harte, McMenamin, O'Se, Jordan etc who can pop up with 1 or 2 points a game - not in every game but remarkably often. We have a couple of guys who I can see already do this sporadically and if they push on to be more consistent we'll have a great platform.
In short, I dont think theres a great difference between the top 3 teams and teams like ourselves. They have the extra scoring nouse in the middle 3rd - not massive scores but they all add up, 5,6,7 points from HF and MF combined and another score or 2 from half back doesnt seem like much but its formidable platform to give your full forwards.
For saturday I'd play and keep nippy in full forward and pump in high ball allafternoon, with clarke and mc donnell feeding off him. The dublin backline is ropey. I'd also have charlie running at them at every opportunity drawing frees... thats where the game will be won... My only concern is ciaran mc keever, he been running a tightrope this past few games.... hes a prime candidate for gettingthe line sooner or later
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 15, 2010, 11:49:46 AM
My only concern is ciaran mc keever, he been running a tightrope this past few games.... hes a prime candidate for gettingthe line sooner or later
I think he will be fine. He has a serious thing for winding up the opposition though, but has also been able to keep his cool. McKeever at the first Armagh vs Down match - brilliant performance in front of the fans. In the Dublin vs Wexford match and even though the Dubs were coming back into the game one or two of the Dubs were dishing out some special treatment on the Wexford boys - who were eventually sent off.
How many times as Ciaran McKeever been sent of in a championship game? I can only remember him being sent off once - probably wrong.
would play
hearty, moriarity, donaghy,mallon
dyas, mc keever, duffy
toner, lavery
mallon, kernan, vernon
clarke, stevie, swift
croke park too wide open for vincy and mal mackin
would fancy plenty of frees against the dublin half back line as all the half forwards can run with the ball
really see armagh winning by 3
Quote from: naka on July 15, 2010, 12:03:37 PM
would play
hearty, moriarity, donaghy,mallon
dyas, mc keever, duffy
toner, lavery
mallon, kernan, vernon
clarke, stevie, swift
croke park too wide open for vincy and mal mackin
would fancy plenty of frees against the dublin half back line as all the half forwards can run with the ball
really see armagh winning by 3
I think that's as strong a team as we have! Looks good... on paper!
Looking forward to this game, two teams whose main strengths are based around fitness and upper body strength. Not feeling overly confident tbh, whatever about discontent in the Dub camp, they'll certainly relish this game and should be fired up. I'm happy enough with defence, Hearty in goals has been solid enough and a full back line of Mallon, Donaghy and Martin; a half back line of Finn Mo, McKeever and Duffy looks strong. That's the way I'd like our defence to line out anyway. In midfield I'd def have Toner and depending on fitness any one of Vernon/Lavery/Mackin. In half-forward line we are in a way kind of spoilt, not in that we have too many out and out half-fowards but we have so many players that can play there. We have players like Vernon and AK, both are too technically gifted to leave out of the side but have no real natural position as such IMO. I don't see the point in having two players playing the same role i.e. B Mallon and Vernon because all that does it take away any attacking edge we might have. I'd opt for Vernon, Kernan and Swift (who I think is real threat in HF). In FF I feel the Dubs will have taken notice of Jamie Clarke and will see him as a real threat, likewise McDonnell so hopefully that provides a few headaches for their fullback line. Still undecided who else I would play alongside them, Feeney or somebody lol.
I think this is the game Dublin needed at this stage.
Whether they'll win it or not, I really don't know.
If it's fast and loose it'll suit them down to the ground.
i dont think Dyas merits his place at this stage.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 15, 2010, 12:39:00 PM
i dont think Dyas merits his place at this stage.
x2. I'd have Finn Mo in ahead of him. HB line is probably our strongest line so its not unreasonable to exclude him. Wouldn't have AK there either.
i thought dyas was very poor the last day against fermanagh, his distribution (though not on his own) was appalling. I was watching him and he kicks the ball like an aussie rules ball, almost drop kicking it all the time
Did they state what crowd is expected for sat
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 15, 2010, 11:01:06 AM
Nippy & Aaron seem to score regular enough... though Aaron less from play now that's he's in the forwards ironically.
I always thought he looked better coming from deep. His big brother Stephen can do what he's doing now...
I agree.
AK is much more threatning as an attacking half back. He has scored some great points from play from there in the championship.
No real stand out contender for the CHF position for Armagh.
Crowd atm estimated 45k.
Weather muck here in Dublin................. a good Friday/Saturday will I think get it up over 50k.
Still alot of Dubs very disillusioned about August 2008 and 9.
Are Armagh people allowed on the Hill ?
QuoteWeather muck here in Dublin................. a good Friday/Saturday will I think get it up over 50k.
Met.ie
Saturday will start off bright with sunny spells and well scattered showers. Highs 17 to 20 C. But during the afternoon and evening, cloud will increase from the Atlantic and bring rain to western coastal counties. It should be decent on Saturday morning and those showers in the Atlantic won't reach Dublin before night.
QuoteStill alot of Dubs very disillusioned about August 2008 and 9.
Beating Armagh would encourage Dublin as they owe us a few, but it wouldn't prevent a tanking later on from the Munster lads.
Any idea on when paddy will announce the team? He did so this time last week
Quote from: ardchieftain on July 15, 2010, 07:36:42 PM
Are Armagh people allowed on the Hill ?
Check out www.Hill16.ie for a clue
;)
Dublin team named tonight, announced tomorrow. Not too many changes expected, at least 1, no more than 3. Cullen should be included.
Everyone going for Armagh, people and Journo's etc. Suits Dublin fine.
Il go for Dublin to win this one by 4 or 5 points.
Quote from: Hound on July 15, 2010, 10:16:16 PM
Quote from: ardchieftain on July 15, 2010, 07:36:42 PM
Are Armagh people allowed on the Hill ?
Dublin team named tonight, announced tomorrow. Not too many changes expected, at least 1, no more than 3. Cullen should be included.
I'm pretty sure there are two changes - one in each of the forward lines - Cullen & Keaney in.
Cahill has been told he's way down the pecking order - Gilroy is on a one way campaign to get rid of all the All-stars - tune in next year for Alan Brogan getting his marching orders
Looking forward to this. Some shower of hoors on the field as well as in the stands.
Think you took a wrong turn there somewhere, lad. This is the match in croke park, not clones.
I'm sure you lovely dublin chaps will look after me on the hill.
Off on a bit of a tangent here but there is a good article with Paul Grimley in the indo. He seems to be 100% set that he'll never take the Armagh job. Do you lads think that's a bit of arse-boxing and he'll take it a number of years down the line when there are new members in the county board and most ties are cut from the current regime?
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/monaghans-right-hand-man-2260928.html
Possibly but he's doing very well as a No. 2 at the minute, and that's his best role anyway. I'm not convinced he'd make a great manager even if he got it.
I think there is a clue in the article where he speaks about the parts of the Managers job he doesn't like and for that reason I think he'd rather stay working on the field - which is what he's well respected for now.
Dublin unchanged after all.
Stephen Cluxton
Michael Fitzsimons Rory O'Carroll Philly McMahon
Kevin Nolan Ger Brennan David Henry
Michael Dara McAuley Ross McConnell
Paul Flynn Alan Brogan Niall Corkery
Bernard Brogan Eoghan O'Gara Kevin McManamon
As an Armagh supporter I hope Mr. Grimley never gets the job. Money grabbing person. I won`t use the word I really mean.
Andy Mallon on Bernard Brogan I guess??
Be interesting to see if O'Carroll stays on McDonnel - I guess he will. Big ask of a ~20 year old to mark McDonnell if he does.
If Kernan drops back a bit then Brennan should attack him plenty. Might be the kind of player Brennan is suited to mark.
Alan Brogan vs Kieran McKeever should be interesting.
Donaghy will mark Brogan Martin on O Gara and Mallon on Mc Menamin if Dublin line up that way which id be surprised if they do.
Armagh name their team for Saturday's Qualifier against Dublin
1. Paul Hearty - Crossmaglen
2. Andy Mallon - Pearse Og
3. Brendan Donaghy - Clonmore
4. Vincent Martin - Dromintee
5. Paul Duffy – Pearse Og
6. Ciaran Mc Keever - Cullyhanna
7. Finnian Moriarty - Wolfe Tone
8. Charlie Vernon – Armagh Harps
9. Kieran Toner - Granemore
10. Malachy Mackin - Cullyhanna
11. Aaron Kernan - Crossmaglen
12. Gareth Swift - Armagh Harps
13. Brian Mallon – Tir na nOg
14. Steven Mc Donnell - Killeavy
15. Jamie Clarke - Crossmaglen
16. Philip McEvoy - Dromintee
17. Joe Feeney - Madden
18. Barry Shannon - Dromintee
19. James Lavery - Maghery
20. Kevin Dyas - Dromintee
21. Enda Mc Nulty - Mullaghbawn
22. Paul Mc Keown - Crossmaglen
23. Tony Kernan - Crossmaglen
24. Paul Kernan - Crossmaglen
25. Francis Hanratty - Crossmaglen
26. Martin O'Rourke - Dromintee
27. Stefan Campbell – Clan na Gael
28. Gavin Mc Parland - Ballymacnab
29. David Comiskey - Tullysaran
30. Eugene Mc Verry - Mullaghbawn
Football - Armagh GAA (http://www.armagh-gaa.com/Football/News/Armagh-name-team-to-play-Dublin.aspx)
As expected really. Pleased to see David Comiskey involved.
We need a big big game from Mal Mackin.
Thats probably our strongest team, though i'd swap lavery for Mackin. Looking forward to a good game
Looking forward to an open game also. I hope we express ourselves cos i would not only like to win with style but would like to lose with style (should that be the eventual outcome).
Quote from: you take er! on July 16, 2010, 10:42:59 AM
Looking forward to an open game also. I hope we express ourselves cos i would not only like to win with style but would like to lose with style (should that be the eventual outcome).
Lose with style?
fcuk me.
If the Dublin team thats named lines out, I expect an Armagh win
Prob as strong as armagh can be TBH, just not Mal Mackins biggest fan and if one of them young lads were to replace him it wouldn't be so bad. Would Martin O'rourke be fit to come on as the last 15-20 minutes would suit him and has the experience of big match days
I love it when rte predict the opposition to beat armagh, it nearly always results in an armagh win
Two teams that go into the campaign with high expectations every season, one will leave Croke Park and the Championship very disappointed this weekend.
Dublin and Armagh have done little to suggest they 'll be involved in the closing games in the competition.
Through the scoring ability of Pat Gilroy's men comes a chance to build momentum and advance through the qualifiers.
So far Dublin have been exploited by every team they've faced, and while they have survived scares against Wexford and Tipperary so far, the loss to Meath in between supported the theory that when the Dubs face decent opposition, they will be shown up as an average team.
They are better than what they have produced so far, but clicking as a team has been the problem.
There is no certainty in their play, individuals are unable to shake off past failures and the expectations of the (seemingly now decreasing) home support.
Armagh was probably the best tie they could have drawn.
Playing another 'weaker' county would not have done Dublin any favour, sooner or later they will have to step up and in the qualifiers there is no let-up.
The Orchard County have been efficient in their wins over Donegal and Fermanagh.
It was always going to be a long road back from the hammering they suffered at the hands of Monaghan and facing their Ulster rivals was exactly the tonic they needed to overcome what happened in Kingspan Breffni Park.
Armagh were quite wasteful against Fermanagh last weekend, the match was certainly by no means a walkover so they did well to see it out.
Jamie Clarke and Stephen McDonnell have led their revival and a lot will depend on how they perform this week.
The Meath forwards ripped Dublin to shreds by playing their own game and not getting sucked into the occasion, if Armagh can do that then it could spell the end of Dublin in this year's Championship.
The Dubs know what they have to do and if Gilroy can instil come composure into their game, they will survive at least another round.
Verdict: Dublin
Quote from: illdecide on July 16, 2010, 12:10:23 PM
Prob as strong as armagh can be TBH, just not Mal Mackins biggest fan and if one of them young lads were to replace him it wouldn't be so bad. Would Martin O'rourke be fit to come on as the last 15-20 minutes would suit him and has the experience of big match days
Is he still playing?
How old's he now?
O'Rourke is 29 I think. He seems to have slipped well back in the pecking order, although the poor performances of Hanratty and Feeney last week could see him move up a place or two. He hasn't played a minute's football for Armagh since last summer, so it would be surprising to see him at this stage really. If he's fit I'd have him ahead of Mackin.
what odds would you get on both armagh and monaghan losing by double digit scores this weekend ?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 16, 2010, 01:23:28 PM
what odds would you get on both armagh and monaghan losing by double digit scores this weekend ?
Would hazard a guess and say the same for Tyrone and Dublin to lose by double digit scores.
Anyone know, is Stefan Forker gone from the panel? If so, it' a pity!
That's as strong a team as we can put out at the minute. This year has been a real rollercoaster so it's impossible to make big predictions. Ciaran McKeever has been played as a sweeper all year so he's unlikely to take up Alan Brogan, Finn Mo did an excellent job on Martin Clarke on our last visit to Croker so maybe that's who will pick him up. We need Ciaran to take the ball forward and attack at every opportunity, don't want him sitting back. The battle between Bernard Brogan and Brendan Donaghy should be worth the entrance fee alone.
If we can get enough possession into Clarke and McDonnell they will get us a lot of scores. Stevie always raises his performance level a notch or two when he gets to Croke Park..........hope that continues.
if mor had been injury free this summer armagh's development curve would have been a lot steeper. we can't win a ball around the middle for long periods and that could be fatal if we disappear in the middle third again tomorrow. certainly i wouldn't expect the white flag to be hoisted as it was against monaghan if he were playing
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 16, 2010, 01:23:28 PM
what odds would you get on both armagh and monaghan losing by double digit scores this weekend ?
19/1 for both to lose by 6 points or more.
really fancy armagh to do the biz tomorrow but feel that they will struggle to progress any further after that
Dublin - First goalscorer
B Brogan - 11/2
E O'Gara - 15/2
K McManamon - 9/1
Armagh - First goalscorer
S McDonnell - 6/1
B Mallon - 8/1
J Clarke - 8/1
Quote from: naka on July 16, 2010, 02:21:26 PM
really fancy armagh to do the biz tomorrow but feel that they will struggle to progress any further after that
Why?? - You'd have to fancy their chances v Limerick, Louth, Roscommon/Sligo!!
Tyrone wouldn't want to mee Armagh either!!
Really don't know what Glroy is at with team named. He's either trying to be clever by naming same team as last day and then having different team line out or more likely he is a complete and utter idiot who does not know what the hell he is at. My money is most definitely on the latter
We are really struggling re any sort of gameplan, the players are confused & lacking confidence particularly in the full back line. yet despite all of this he leaves Cahill, Fennell, Keaney & Cullen on the bench and continues with McMennimen and Corkery who are pure and simple not good enough for this level. As quite a number of Dublin supporters said before, during and after game v Tipp last Sat if losing means we get rid of Gilroy & Whelan once and for all maybe that's no bad thing.
Armagh are no great team but we are a complete shambles!!!
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on July 16, 2010, 01:57:29 PM
if mor had been injury free this summer armagh's development curve would have been a lot steeper. we can't win a ball around the middle for long periods and that could be fatal if we disappear in the middle third again tomorrow. certainly i wouldn't expect the white flag to be hoisted as it was against monaghan if he were playing
couldnt disagree more. Hes done, and when he was in his prime i still didnt rate him, same as alot of folks. Against Derry we won midfield, against Monaghan we lost the first half but the introduction of Lavery saw us get to grips with it - with 14 men, Donegal were abysmal and Fermanagh was a scrap.
MOR wouldnt have made a blind bit of difference to any of this. Losing B Mallon was the problem as he was hoovering ball up all over the place against Derry and also Monaghan before he got the line.
Obviously we're both entitled to our opinion and mine would be very different from yours. there's a misguided belief among a lot of our younger contributers - and those who just don't know any better - that we need our 15 most skillful footballers on the pitch and that there is some sort of development plan to be followed to "build" a team. the reality of intercounty football is that you put the best players on the field to win matches, whether they're 18, 40 or 28. you put players in position to do jobs. playing lads like feeney (and ak for that matter) in the half forward line is poor judgement.
Brian mallon is a fantastic footballer and a strong lad who'll win ball when its near him. he won't, however, go looking for work or win ball beyond his comfort zone.
The blinkers with mor in our own county regarding mor is astonishing, given that most counties in the country search high and low for that type of player.
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on July 16, 2010, 02:46:04 PM
Obviously we're both entitled to our opinion and mine would be very different from yours. there's a misguided belief among a lot of our younger contributers - and those who just don't know any better - that we need our 15 most skillful footballers on the pitch and that there is some sort of development plan to be followed to "build" a team. the reality of intercounty football is that you put the best players on the field to win matches, whether they're 18, 40 or 28. you put players in position to do jobs. playing lads like feeney (and ak for that matter) in the half forward line is poor judgement.
Brian mallon is a fantastic footballer and a strong lad who'll win ball when its near him. he won't, however, go looking for work or win ball beyond his comfort zone.
The blinkers with mor in our own county regarding mor is astonishing, given that most counties in the country search high and low for that type of player.
mate, I'm 28 years old and not some pup who has watched 5 games and thinks he knows it all - I've been around the block a few times & I am well aware that we need horses for courses.
MOR will win break ball surely, but he will also kick 90% of that possession straight back to the opposition - he is well known for it. He is good at winning a free kick around the middle of the park, but is also as adept at giving these frees away and getting referees backs up. He has had his day and I dont think he should be anywhere near the line up. Counties do look for his "type" of player - but they would like one with some actual footballing ability as well as brute strength á la Dooher, McEntee etc - who can pick a pass or a score when they recycle the ball.
Agreed, B Mallon is a good player but to say he doesnt work or win dirty ball is an absolute joke! Watch the Derry match again and come back to me. He never stops running and has a knack of finding an orange jersey with a pass rather than an opposition one - see the first 15 mins against Monaghan as an example.
If you want a player who wins break ball, by all means pick MOR. If you want a player who wins break ball and then uses it properly, dont.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 16, 2010, 03:05:24 PM
MOR will win break ball surely, but he will also kick 90% of that possession straight back to the opposition - he is well known for it.
Such silly exaggerations do nothing for your argument.
Quote from: AFS on July 16, 2010, 03:11:18 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 16, 2010, 03:05:24 PM
MOR will win break ball surely, but he will also kick 90% of that possession straight back to the opposition - he is well known for it.
Such silly exaggerations do nothing for your argument.
aye dead on AFS. The man is well known for wasting ball. Why dont you get on your wee search engine and provide the statistics for it, I know you're dying to. I didnt realise a flippant remark about percentages, meant to merely highlight the point would be of such relevance to you.
God forbid the use of hyperbole in the deeply scientific argument that is MOR's inter county career. I trust you will never, or have never exagerrated slightly in an argument to highlight your point? If you have, get yourself down to confession immediately, if not sooner.... DAMN! I'VE USED HYPERBOLE AGAIN!!!
Thanks AFS, I thought he was alot older.
I also think Aghdavoyle, to say "if mor had been injury free this summer armagh's development curve would have been a lot steeper." is nonsense. You can't say one player would make that much of a difference and certainly not Martin O'Rourke.
Actually my concern with Martin O'Rourke was none of those points - I always thought he lacked the pace and fitness for full games and often lost his man and couldn't track back or mark. Which would be a concern in Croker above all places.
I do agree he's a cute, intelligent, tough player who wins dirty ball many don't, but I always (well recent years) saw him as a weak link to be honest that the opposition could exploit.
Mackin makes me think - Christ it is MOR all over again.
PS, MOR is 30 according to the match program.
I thought he was slightly older myself, I wonder if hes done a bit of number fiddling ha ha?
I think that while MOR is not the answer to all out ills at HF, he could certainly do a job coming in at some stage. ok he mightn't have the radar for a good pass like John mac or even his own brother Aidan but he is experienced can win dirty ball and also get under the skin of opponents would be good if that sector needed 'shaking up' a little. As regards how good he is....i dont think you can be ona a county panel for 9 years and not have some footballing ability...he does have his limits though.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 16, 2010, 02:30:24 PM
Quote from: naka on July 16, 2010, 02:21:26 PM
really fancy armagh to do the biz tomorrow but feel that they will struggle to progress any further after that
Why?? - You'd have to fancy their chances v Limerick, Louth, Roscommon/Sligo!!
Tyrone wouldn't want to mee Armagh either!!
actually think they would struggle against louth, limerick or monaghan, ok would probably beat Roscommon but hey thats not a great feat nowadays
Quote from: eireogatron on July 16, 2010, 03:05:24 PM
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on July 16, 2010, 02:46:04 PM
Obviously we're both entitled to our opinion and mine would be very different from yours. there's a misguided belief among a lot of our younger contributers - and those who just don't know any better - that we need our 15 most skillful footballers on the pitch and that there is some sort of development plan to be followed to "build" a team. the reality of intercounty football is that you put the best players on the field to win matches, whether they're 18, 40 or 28. you put players in position to do jobs. playing lads like feeney (and ak for that matter) in the half forward line is poor judgement.
Brian mallon is a fantastic footballer and a strong lad who'll win ball when its near him. he won't, however, go looking for work or win ball beyond his comfort zone.
The blinkers with mor in our own county regarding mor is astonishing, given that most counties in the country search high and low for that type of player.
mate, I'm 28 years old and not some pup who has watched 5 games and thinks he knows it all - I've been around the block a few times & I am well aware that we need horses for courses.
MOR will win break ball surely, but he will also kick 90% of that possession straight back to the opposition - he is well known for it. He is good at winning a free kick around the middle of the park, but is also as adept at giving these frees away and getting referees backs up. He has had his day and I dont think he should be anywhere near the line up. Counties do look for his "type" of player - but they would like one with some actual footballing ability as well as brute strength á la Dooher, McEntee etc - who can pick a pass or a score when they recycle the ball.
Agreed, B Mallon is a good player but to say he doesnt work or win dirty ball is an absolute joke! Watch the Derry match again and come back to me. He never stops running and has a knack of finding an orange jersey with a pass rather than an opposition one - see the first 15 mins against Monaghan as an example.
If you want a player who wins break ball, by all means pick MOR. If you want a player who wins break ball and then uses it properly, dont.
OF course you are entitled to hold that opinion, but i wouldn't subscribe to it. Don't know where the giving the ball line came from - must be from his poor shooting but it's certainly not true. in fact he's probably among the best distributers of direct ball in the county. then again i only watch him playing club football weekly and i don't know maybe.
not wanting to labour the brian mallon issue but he does not work at a sustained level and is not fit enough to play in the half forward line for me. The contributer who used mor's fitness and tracking back as an issue is having a laugh. in fact, the complete opposite of reality. there is not a harder worker for any team and in his career he has consistently been used to stifle the most attacking wing backs the opposition have.
A half forward to win us enough ball to win a game and use it well out of mor, swift, feeney, hanratty, mackin, kernan, vernon? mor top of that list for me but for other roles, swift, vernon and kernan have other strengths. this can be viewed as a superficial argument but armagh's lack of steel and work rate in this area has cost dearly this year.
By the way, replying to your post doen't make me your mate - you have to work much harder for that. and don't be so insecure as to outline your age and credentials to qualify your posts. we can judge the posts on their merits.
Gilroy sticks to his young guns
Friday July 16 2010
THE Dubs have gone with a novel approach for tomorrow's Croke Park showdown with Armagh -- they're sticking with an unchanged team!
After all the flux of recent weeks, during which Pat Gilroy has torn up several struggling team sheets and started again, the Dublin boss now feels sufficiently confident to name an unchanged starting 15 for the round three qualifier at GAA HQ (throw-in 5.00pm).
That means no change in the full-back line that again struggled at times against Tipperary last Saturday; no place at midfield for Eamon Fennell, whose build-up has again been hampered by a hip injury; and no recall either for Bryan Cullen.
Erstwhile centre-back Cullen was thought to be pushing strongly for a place at wing-forward, given that both Paul Flynn and Niall Corkery struggled on the flanks against Tipp.
Instead, when Gilroy announced his team at a press conference in DCU this morning, the selection offered a ringing endorsement to the team that started the round-two qualifier six days ago.
The most relieved party, apart from Flynn and Corkery, is likely to be Kevin McManamon who has been given another chance to nail down the No 15 jersey.
McManamon was replaced after 43 minutes against Tipperary, Conal Keaney coming on and converting three left-footed frees in the process. However, Keaney must again be satisfied with a bench role, having lost his starting place in the aftermath of Dublin's crushing defeat to Meath in the Leinster semi-finals.
Fennell sat out training on Tuesday night and is again held in reserve, despite putting in a solid 35-minute shift against Tipp. In his absence, management stick with a midfield pairing of Ross McConnell and Michael Darragh MacAuley, who hugely impressed on his full SFC debut.
Another debutant who caught the eye last weekend, Eoghan O'Gara, also retains his place at full-forward.
Meanwhile, the GAA grapevine is again suggesting that we'll have another sub 30,000 crowd for tomorrow's Croke Park
double-header, starting with the Dublin hurlers against Antrim at 3.00pm.
Only 22,084 turned up for last weekend's double-bill, constituting the lowest Croker crowd involving the Dublin footballers in recent memory except for really old people who might remember back longer.
DUBLIN(SFC v Armagh) P Cullen: G O'Driscoll S Doherty R Kelleher: T Drumm K Moran P O'Neill: B Mullins B Brogan: A O'Toole T Hanahoe D Hickey: B Doyle J Keaveney J McCarthy.
I can't believe the Dubs are staying away in such big numbers, when the draw first came out i was excited as nothing compares to playing the Dubs in croke Park with a full house but now with the small crowd it just won't have the same atmosphere. Although i suppose if I'm gonna be critical about supporters Armagh's has dwindled big time over the last 5 years.
Keavney will take holding
crowds are well down this year, people just can't afford it. I think the GAA have really slipped up this year. I went to the fermanagh match last sunday and they were looking £18 for the seated stand (which is uncovered) ridiclous, that kind of craic just sickens people.... Qualifiers whould be a tenner in, end of
Just picked up 2 tickets for hill 16 there, then Patrick Og tells me i got the 9th and 10th hill tickets sold in the county.
This is going to be an experience.
Lavery mustn't be fit enough to start, aye ? Decent lineup though.
I won't make a prediction but i just hope we play with no fear.
Really looking forward to it and the hurling as well. Hope Antrim put up a decent show.
There was a time when Armagh would have brought most of 22,000 to a game like this, our support has declined almost as much as the Dubs. There is a class of Dub supporter that isn't too interested in the GAA but who likes the buzz of the big crowd and these have stayed away.
All right, lads, anyone know what radio station is carrying the match?
Don't understand so much confidence. We got eaten alive by Monaghan, beat a Donegal team that played like juveniles, and Fermanagh, with all due respect, are much weaker than they once were.
Who's the ref?
Quote from: Oraisteach on July 16, 2010, 07:19:57 PM
All right, lads, anyone know what radio station is carrying the match?
Don't understand so much confidence. We got eaten alive by Monaghan, beat a Donegal team that played like juveniles, and Fermanagh, with all due respect, are much weaker than they once were.
Who's the ref?
Joe McQuillan [Cavan]
Tx. What do you know about him?
Is he fussy, or will he let them play?
Joe McQuillan
2010 games:
Armagh vs Kildare - NFL 2010
Down vs Donegal - Ulster 2010
Roscommon vs Leitrim - Connacht 2010 - Was rated as an efficient referee in that game.
Seems like a fair referee. Eugene McGee reviewed his performance against Down and Donegal and compared him to McEnaney saying....
referee Joe McQuillan obviously was reading the Pat McEnaney version of the rule book -- 'See no evil, hear no evil' -- and nobody was complaining!
Kildare didn't take to Joe.
Kildare blown apart by Armagh in Crossmaglen
National Football League Division 2 Round 4
Armagh: 0-12
Kildare: 0-05
MEET Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, otherwise known as the Kildare senior football team. One week superb, the next week terrible and it was the latter last Sunday in Crossmaglen.
The Lilywhites were atrocious and looked like a completely different side to the one that comprehensively beat Donegal the week previous despite the same team, bar one, lining out. Armagh weren't even that impressive, they just did the simple things right – something Kildare forgot to do and they paid the price.
The defeat doesn't mathematically rule out promotion but realistically, taking score difference in to consideration, Kildare will be stuck in Division 2 for a third season on the trot.
Boss Kieran McGeeney made one change to the team that comfortably and stylishly accounted for Donegal in round 3 with Paul Flood coming in in goal in place of Tom Corley. The Maynooth net minder was one of the very few positives to take from this encounter; he acquitted himself well and late in the day pulled off a magnificent point blank save from a Ronan Austin shot.
The only other Kildare player to put in a good performance was Sarsfields' Gary White, but otherwise it verged on the very mediocre to the downright awful.
Possession was needlessly given away all afternoon, the ball in to the forwards was poor to say the least, the free taking was dire from early on, the Lilywhites held on to the ball way too long and Armagh's full back line were incredibly dominant throughout.
It was a bad return home for Kieran McGeeney and selector Aidan O'Rourke, most definitely a day to forget and now they must pick up the pieces and prepare for this Sunday's visit of struggling Westmeath.
Right from the off in Crossmaglen things didn't go Kildare's way. Trailing by a point after Steven McDonnell split the posts, Kildare had a chance to restore early parity when Ken Donnelly was impeded by Andy Mallon. Johnny Doyle stepped forward with the resultant free from 21 yards out on the left but it hit the upright and was cleared by the Armagh rearguard.
Then came a spat of needless yellow cards from Cavan referee Joe McQuillan. He booked Johnny Doyle, Daryl Flynn and Paudie O'Neill and not one of the three deserved a card but of course the Cavan man was of a much different opinion.
Just nine minutes in the home side doubled their advantage when the impressive Stefan Forker raised a white flag after his initial shot was blocked by Damien Hendy before he collected the rebound and fired over.
Armagh could have been and should have been further ahead but terrible early wides only saw them lead by two (0-2 to 0-0).
It took Kildare over 24 minutes to open their account and their first point came from James Kavanagh following a pass in from Ken Donnelly and now the Lilywhites just trailed by the minimum.
Just three minutes later a line ball on the right by Johnny Doyle was sent in and Gary White was under the high ball to punch it over the bar to leave the sides with two points apiece.
That was all Kildare could manage for the first half and their opponents finished it strongly. With seven remaining a super point from Forker gave them back the advantage, while further points from Steven McDonnell (free), Paul Kernan, Forker and Aaron Kernan left Armagh leading 0-7 to 0-2 at the interval.
Even the early introduction of Eamonn Callaghan couldn't spurn Kildare on. The Naas man replaced David Whyte in the 16th minute after a long spell out with a groin injury and really didn't make any impact.
McGeeney's men showed some form of life during the early exchanges of the second half and drew first blood when Daryl Flynn split the posts but it was soon cancelled out by the opposition when Stefan Forker punched the ball over the bar after getting the better of Hendy yet again.
Johnny Doyle got his first of the afternoon just five minutes in to the final half when he sent over a free from close range after he was fouled by Paul Kernan but a further 15 minutes elapsed before Kildare added to their tally.
During that period Armagh kicked some terrible wides and Kildare could have and should have reduced the deficit down to just the minimum in the 42nd minute of play.
Paudie O'Neill sent a dangerous ball across the face of goal and substitute Willie Heffernan got the touch to send the ball to the net. However, the umpire signalled that the ball had gone out over the end line when O'Neill was in possession and the goal was ruled out of order. The St Laurence's club man was adament that the ball had not gone out and once again Joe McQuillan did Kildare no favours whatsoever.
Kildare's final score of the afternoon came from the boot of Johnny Doyle from a free but thereafter their opponents tagged on a further four points to seal a comfortable seven point victory.
The first of those points came from Steven McDonnell after a blunder from Emmet Bolton, while seconds after coming on as a sub Michael McNamee split the post. A sublime point from McDonnell from a free out on the left came just three minutes before Ronan Austin completed the scoring on a nightmare day for the Lilywhites.
Scorers: Armagh – Stefan Forker 0-4, Steven McDonnell 0-4 (1f), Paul Kernan 0-1, Aaron Kernan 0-1 (1f), Michael McNamee 0-1, Ronan Austin 0-1.
Kildare – Johnny Doyle 0-2 (2f), James Kavanagh 0-1, Gary White 0-1, Daryl Flynn 0-1.
Armagh:
Philip McEvoy; Andy Mallon, Brendan Donaghy, Paul Duffy; Paul Kernan, Ciaran McKeever, Finnian Moriarity; Ronan Austin, Kieran Toner; Joe Feeney, Aaron Kernan, Gareth Swift; Ryan Henderson, Steven McDonnell, Stefan Forker. Subs: Michael McNamee replaced J Feeney 60 minutes, Brian Mallon replaced A Kernan 69 minutes.
Kildare:Paul Flood; Hugh McGrillen, Damien Hendy, Emmet Bolton; Keith Cribbin, Mark Scanlon, Gary White; Daryl Flynn, Dermot Earley; David Whyte, Padraig O'Neill, Johnny Doyle; Ken Donnelly, James Kavanagh, Karl Ennis. Subs: Eamonn Callaghan replaced D Whyte 16 minutes, Ronan Sweeney replaced K Donnelly HT, Willie Heffernan replaced K Ennis HT, Mick Foley replaced K Cribbin 55 minutes, Hughie Lynch replaced D Flynn 65 minutes.
Referee:
Joe McQuillan (Cavan).
Joe is fond of th'oul cards alright and isnt big on physical stuff.
So expect a 12 aside finish tomorrow ?
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2010, 08:01:42 PM
Joe is fond of th'oul cards alright and isnt big on physical stuff.
So expect a 12 aside finish tomorrow ?
If we are the 1st to get someone sent off were fecked!
Quote from: drici on July 16, 2010, 07:54:53 PM
Kildare blown apart by Armagh in Crossmaglen
National Football League Division 2 Round 4
Armagh: 0-12
Kildare: 0-05
Scorers: Armagh – Stefan Forker 0-4, Steven McDonnell 0-4 (1f), Paul Kernan 0-1, Aaron Kernan 0-1 (1f), Michael McNamee 0-1, Ronan Austin 0-1.
Kildare – Johnny Doyle 0-2 (2f), James Kavanagh 0-1, Gary White 0-1, Daryl Flynn 0-1.
Armagh:
Philip McEvoy; Andy Mallon, Brendan Donaghy, Paul Duffy; Paul Kernan, Ciaran McKeever, Finnian Moriarity; Ronan Austin, Kieran Toner; Joe Feeney, Aaron Kernan, Gareth Swift; Ryan Henderson, Steven McDonnell, Stefan Forker. Subs: Michael McNamee replaced J Feeney 60 minutes, Brian Mallon replaced A Kernan 69 minutes.
Kildare:Paul Flood; Hugh McGrillen, Damien Hendy, Emmet Bolton; Keith Cribbin, Mark Scanlon, Gary White; Daryl Flynn, Dermot Earley; David Whyte, Padraig O'Neill, Johnny Doyle; Ken Donnelly, James Kavanagh, Karl Ennis. Subs: Eamonn Callaghan replaced D Whyte 16 minutes, Ronan Sweeney replaced K Donnelly HT, Willie Heffernan replaced K Ennis HT, Mick Foley replaced K Cribbin 55 minutes, Hughie Lynch replaced D Flynn 65 minutes.
Referee:
Joe McQuillan (Cavan).
Interesting that Stefan Forker Armagh's joint top scorer against Kildare only a few months ago is no longer even on the panel.
QuoteInteresting that Stefan Forker Armagh's joint top scorer against Kildare only a few months ago is no longer even on the panel.
Paul Kernan, Michael McNamee, and Ronan Austin probably won't be scoring tomorrow either.
Looking forward to tomorrow. Last time Armagh played Dublin in qualifiers, it was a great game. Is the lad Campbell any chance of getting amy time from the bench?
Quote from: armaghniac on July 16, 2010, 09:37:53 PM
QuoteInteresting that Stefan Forker Armagh's joint top scorer against Kildare only a few months ago is no longer even on the panel.
Paul Kernan, Michael McNamee, and Ronan Austin probably won't be scoring tomorrow either.
Is Forker dropped or injured?
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 16, 2010, 09:56:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 16, 2010, 09:37:53 PM
QuoteInteresting that Stefan Forker Armagh's joint top scorer against Kildare only a few months ago is no longer even on the panel.
Paul Kernan, Michael McNamee, and Ronan Austin probably won't be scoring tomorrow either.
Is Forker dropped or injured?
He has left going by reports from other posters.
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on July 16, 2010, 05:10:11 PM
Keavney will take holding
He might well have done in his prime forty years ago, but I don't Jimmy will do too much damage from his seat in from of me in in premium 532 tomorrow!
Last time we played dubs in qualifiers we reached final
would take that
Quote from: naka on July 16, 2010, 10:24:33 PM
Last time we played dubs in qualifiers we reached final
would take that
Beginning to sound like the England commentators at the world cup. Just because if we beat them it dosent mean we are going to get to the final
Quote from: hardstation on July 13, 2010, 12:45:17 AM
Jaysus, lads, I'm going to this game (supporting Armagh) hoping that it could re-ignite the flame for whoever wins it. It's a great draw for both counties.
Maybe I'm hoping too much but Come On Antrim Hurlers!!!!!
You on the train in the morning? Getting the 10.20 with a Teresas man.
Quote from: illdecide on July 16, 2010, 05:07:10 PM
I can't believe the Dubs are staying away in such big numbers, when the draw first came out i was excited as nothing compares to playing the Dubs in croke Park with a full house but now with the small crowd it just won't have the same atmosphere. Although i suppose if I'm gonna be critical about supporters Armagh's has dwindled big time over the last 5 years.
The days and times of these matches have a lot of influence in the numbers turning out. look at the armagh crowd in Fermanagh last week, would it have been the same if it had of been on a Saturday. Iim not going to the match tomorrow(raging tho!) because ive have to work and didnt have enough notice to change it and i know alot of 'die-hard' armagh fans are the same. its a pity because it has the makings of a great game and the atmosphere against the Dubs in Croker is cracker! Rememeber the first round of the league in 2003, 60000plus at that game!
A little bit of a tangent here but has anyone heard of any progress in R. Clarkes injury? No one has said he is defo out for the season (although thats what is rumoured) if for example we were to progress to Aug or even Sept (dreaming here i know) is there a possibility he could appear????
Quote from: you take er! on July 17, 2010, 12:37:31 AM
A little bit of a tangent here but has anyone heard of any progress in R. Clarkes injury? No one has said he is defo out for the season (although thats what is rumoured) if for example we were to progress to Aug or even Sept (dreaming here i know) is there a possibility he could appear????
The latest ive heard is that he was still in a cast last sunday!
Joe McQuillian is a poor enough referee.
Smaller version of Kinneavy/OCnamhna (or whatever), early on trys to stamp his 'authority' on the game and boss it, but he's hard to take seriously.
Good chance someone will walk for 2 yellows alright
I assume there are still tickets left?
Where is ticket office at in croke park?
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2010, 08:45:11 AM
Where is ticket office at in croke park?
Opposite Gills.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JY_9Pnqs9bU/SKr-ANFWrqI/AAAAAAAAA_k/WzEWayoaSC0/s320/IMG_4607.JPG)
Cheers.
There was a poor turnout in Fermanagh last week and hopefully there will be more of a crowd at todays game.
Armagh have the team to win here today there is no doubt but we need the half forward line to step up and get some scores. Happy with the changes Paddy made, hopefully the tactics work and Armagh continue their success against the Dubs.
Re: Clark - I can't see him coming back for Armagh this year. I have two close friends who suffered similar injuries and this is not something you bounce back from. He will be lucky to be back for the Og's this year I would imagine but time will tell. Good to see him on the side lines in Fermanagh though.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2010, 08:45:11 AM
I assume there are still tickets left?
Where is ticket office at in croke park?
Know anyone with premium level seats?
Get them to get you a couple online.
https://teamexchange.ticketmastereurope.com/html/eventlist.htmI?l=EN&team=crokepark
Quote from: armagh leg-end on July 17, 2010, 12:03:15 AM
Quote from: illdecide on July 16, 2010, 05:07:10 PM
I can't believe the Dubs are staying away in such big numbers, when the draw first came out i was excited as nothing compares to playing the Dubs in croke Park with a full house but now with the small crowd it just won't have the same atmosphere. Although i suppose if I'm gonna be critical about supporters Armagh's has dwindled big time over the last 5 years.
The days and times of these matches have a lot of influence in the numbers turning out. look at the armagh crowd in Fermanagh last week, would it have been the same if it had of been on a Saturday. Iim not going to the match tomorrow(raging tho!) because ive have to work and didnt have enough notice to change it and i know alot of 'die-hard' armagh fans are the same. its a pity because it has the makings of a great game and the atmosphere against the Dubs in Croker is cracker! Rememeber the first round of the league in 2003, 60000plus at that game!
People can't afford it. Many people with kids won't go if they can't afford to take the kids with them. Thats had the biggest knockon effect on Dublin's crowd this season.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 17, 2010, 10:13:13 AM
Quote from: armagh leg-end on July 17, 2010, 12:03:15 AM
Quote from: illdecide on July 16, 2010, 05:07:10 PM
I can't believe the Dubs are staying away in such big numbers, when the draw first came out i was excited as nothing compares to playing the Dubs in croke Park with a full house but now with the small crowd it just won't have the same atmosphere. Although i suppose if I'm gonna be critical about supporters Armagh's has dwindled big time over the last 5 years.
The days and times of these matches have a lot of influence in the numbers turning out. look at the armagh crowd in Fermanagh last week, would it have been the same if it had of been on a Saturday. Iim not going to the match tomorrow(raging tho!) because ive have to work and didnt have enough notice to change it and i know alot of 'die-hard' armagh fans are the same. its a pity because it has the makings of a great game and the atmosphere against the Dubs in Croker is cracker! Rememeber the first round of the league in 2003, 60000plus at that game!
People can't afford it. Many people with kids won't go if they can't afford to take the kids with them. Thats had the biggest knockon effect on Dublin's crowd this season.
There's kids tickets available at €5 which is great value. The adult tickets may be a bit overpriced but definately not the kids. Doubt you'd get tickets at such value for big games in other sports.
Quote from: Gaffer on July 17, 2010, 09:55:49 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2010, 08:45:11 AM
I assume there are still tickets left?
Where is ticket office at in croke park?
Know anyone with premium level seats?
Get them to get you a couple online.
https://teamexchange.ticketmastereurope.com/html/eventlist.htmI?l=EN&team=crokepark
gaffer, are they premium seat tickets?
Quote from: magickingdom on July 17, 2010, 11:15:04 AM
Quote from: Gaffer on July 17, 2010, 09:55:49 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2010, 08:45:11 AM
I assume there are still tickets left?
Where is ticket office at in croke park?
Know anyone with premium level seats?
Get them to get you a couple online.
https://teamexchange.ticketmastereurope.com/html/eventlist.htmI?l=EN&team=crokepark
gaffer, are they premium seat tickets?
They are . You need someone with premium levels seats to buy the for you through their account. Some good seats to be got
Where are Tankie and Gnevin? Time was you couldn't shut those boys up when Dublin were playing, and now there's no sign of them.
Teeming rain in Dublin today. Indiana's right about the ticket prices. I'm a neutral, but something like this should be attractive to me. But I'm not going. I'll watch it on telly. The GAA will need to have a serious think about fixtures in the winter.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on July 17, 2010, 10:55:35 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 17, 2010, 10:13:13 AM
Quote from: armagh leg-end on July 17, 2010, 12:03:15 AM
Quote from: illdecide on July 16, 2010, 05:07:10 PM
I can't believe the Dubs are staying away in such big numbers, when the draw first came out i was excited as nothing compares to playing the Dubs in croke Park with a full house but now with the small crowd it just won't have the same atmosphere. Although i suppose if I'm gonna be critical about supporters Armagh's has dwindled big time over the last 5 years.
The days and times of these matches have a lot of influence in the numbers turning out. look at the armagh crowd in Fermanagh last week, would it have been the same if it had of been on a Saturday. Iim not going to the match tomorrow(raging tho!) because ive have to work and didnt have enough notice to change it and i know alot of 'die-hard' armagh fans are the same. its a pity because it has the makings of a great game and the atmosphere against the Dubs in Croker is cracker! Rememeber the first round of the league in 2003, 60000plus at that game!
People can't afford it. Many people with kids won't go if they can't afford to take the kids with them. Thats had the biggest knockon effect on Dublin's crowd this season.
There's kids tickets available at €5 which is great value. The adult tickets may be a bit overpriced but definately not the kids. Doubt you'd get tickets at such value for big games in other sports.
There isn't enough of them mate. Costs 200 quid to bring the family between everything. Just can't do it every week.
Pissing rain in dublin again. Probably won't suit either side.
It will not rain much later, but like the Armagh v Monaghan game people will be reluctant to set off in rain.
Hard to now about this one, I imagine one team will get things going and the other will have a bad end to a poor season. Let's hope it is Armagh.
Safe journey to all the Armagh fans coming down, dont forget to spend loads of money. ;)
Up the Dubs.
dublin hitting or starting to hit form despite of a team that I wouldnt have picked in a million years
can see the brogans running riot and Dubs scoring 4 or 5 goals !
a year too soon for this emerging armagh side imo
Jaysus I'm praying this game is gonna be better than Derry - Kildare... after watching the game in Celtic Park not studying seems to have been a bad choice :(
You know what? David Brady is trying to invent his very own catchphrase. You know what? I hope we don't have to listen to it until half six. Because you know what? It's getting to be very irritating.
any live streams for this? TV3 showing it, but only to viewers in the ROI >:(
Quote from: Celt_Man on July 17, 2010, 04:28:09 PM
Jaysus I'm praying this game is gonna be better than Derry - Kildare... after watching the game in Celtic Park not studying seems to have been a bad choice :(
repeats alredy ??
;)
Quote from: Square Ball on July 17, 2010, 04:52:11 PM
any live streams for this? TV3 showing it, but only to viewers in the ROI >:(
+1, RTE aerial is banjaxed.
0-01 - 0-00 might win this one!
Quote from: gallsman on July 17, 2010, 05:03:46 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on July 17, 2010, 04:52:11 PM
any live streams for this? TV3 showing it, but only to viewers in the ROI >:(
+1, RTE aerial is banjaxed.
anyone?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 17, 2010, 04:57:23 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on July 17, 2010, 04:28:09 PM
Jaysus I'm praying this game is gonna be better than Derry - Kildare... after watching the game in Celtic Park not studying seems to have been a bad choice :(
repeats alredy ??
;)
yes and no!!!
Got that O'Gara lad is awful awkward.
Why was this game played in Croke Park?? Just heard there on the radio that there is 20,000 or so at it - so basically Croke Park is 1/4 full!!! Would this not have been a perfect game to have in some provincial ground packed to the rafters???
How many does Drogehda hold? I know Breffni holds about 24,000 fully loaded - there would have been a great atmosphere in such a ground with the same attendance as today
McAuley is a great man to tackle.
Dublin have loads of possession but it's the wrong people with the ball when it comes time to shoot.
Quote from: Celt_Man on July 17, 2010, 05:26:39 PM
Why was this game played in Croke Park?? Just heard there on the radio that there is 20,000 or so at it - so basically Croke Park is 1/4 full!!! Would this not have been a perfect game to have in some provincial ground packed to the rafters???
How many does Drogehda hold? I know Breffni holds about 24,000 fully loaded - there would have been a great atmosphere in such a ground with the same attendance as today
[/quot
armagh havn a good 1st half 6-2 up
Mackin must be one of the slowest inter county footballers playing at the moment though he scored an absolute beauty there.
Keaney must surely come on for O'Gara at HT.
Quote from: Celt_Man on July 17, 2010, 05:26:39 PM
Why was this game played in Croke Park?? Just heard there on the radio that there is 20,000 or so at it - so basically Croke Park is 1/4 full!!! Would this not have been a perfect game to have in some provincial ground packed to the rafters???
How many does Drogehda hold? I know Breffni holds about 24,000 fully loaded - there would have been a great atmosphere in such a ground with the same attendance as today
Loss making exercise today then ! Not worth opening the gates for that crowd.
Quote from: tyroneboi on July 17, 2010, 05:30:47 PM
Mackin must be one of the slowest inter county footballers playing at the moment though he scored an absolute beauty there.
Keaney must surely come on for O'Gara at HT.
O'Gara is just jogging around the place.
Looks to me like a lad that thinks he's a lot better than he is.
jezuz, right now Dublin are giving Derry a run for worst perf of the day...that would have taken some doing I'd have thought !
Bernard Brogan is the best forward in the country bar none.
He's doing it on his own.
putrid shit
If Dublin can get someone to help Brogan in the FF line they'll run away with this.
Keaney has to start the 2nd half.
Quote from: orangeman on July 17, 2010, 05:31:15 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on July 17, 2010, 05:26:39 PM
Why was this game played in Croke Park?? Just heard there on the radio that there is 20,000 or so at it - so basically Croke Park is 1/4 full!!! Would this not have been a perfect game to have in some provincial ground packed to the rafters???
How many does Drogehda hold? I know Breffni holds about 24,000 fully loaded - there would have been a great atmosphere in such a ground with the same attendance as today
Loss making exercise today then ! Not worth opening the gates for that crowd.
Aye indeed. Isn't it about 35,000 plus needed to cover themselves or is that just a popular myth?
Think Armagh have lost this.
Duffy + Vernon have been the main reasons for dublins scores, constantly running into tackles and losing the ball. Lavery musnt be fit if Feeney has to come on for Toner :-\
Toner off (presumably injured) to be replaced by joe Feeney. Management has money on the Dubs.
Niether of these teams deserve to go any further, really infuriatingly bad game. Dont want to put the blink on him but the much maligned Vincie Martin having a great game, few having nightmares.
The carbon copy tactics are neutering the game.
When we beat Derry I thought we did what we had to do to win, assuming when things were different we'd revert to a more expansive game, that's the great shame of this set up-we haven't it is the same oul shite.
Is it me or do a lot of Armagh players seem to be labouring.
Dublin seem physically sharper, does not mean they will will. Mind you I am impressed with their tackling.
Quote from: our_fella on July 17, 2010, 05:41:37 PM
Duffy + Vernon have been the main reasons for dublins scores, constantly running into tackles and losing the ball. Lavery musnt be fit if Feeney has to come on for Toner :-\
Spot on, Vernon very average footballer and thats being kind.
Only half watched that opening half... not great stuff at all... The Chronicles of Narnia on RTÉ 1 is looking very tempting....
Quote from: Square Ball on July 17, 2010, 04:52:11 PM
any live streams for this? TV3 showing it, but only to viewers in the ROI >:(
Watching in the States on this link
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/todaygaa
Armagh are going to have to be tighter in defence. Too many holes in the Armagh defence.
McDonnell barely getting anything nor is Jamie. Got 6 different scorers today and if we win that will be a positive. Armaggh also have to stop running into the tackles it isnt working.
Still got a feeling that Dublin are going to win this.
Both teams cancelling each other out...C Vernon as usual running into tackles, no suprise there (he must have cost at least two scores), Duffy been at it too but usually he is good at running at teams, breaking tackles and moving the ball first time if needed. Mackin doing rightly IMO, someone said he's slow, he ain't the only one sallying along in the HF line. Very delayed in getting the ball forward. Not dying about Feeney coming on :-\
Dublin's physicality seems to have suprised Armagh.
Carmen your being very harsh saying Vernon is an average footballer. IMO he is fabulous player!
BTW TV3 love their ads - very annoying!
If armagh are going to play the direct route from MF to the FF line, we need Swift in there to be contesting as J.Clarke is just getting muscled out altogether. Hopefully we dont see a repeat of last week with POR taking an eternity to make the necessary subs =/
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 17, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on July 17, 2010, 04:52:11 PM
any live streams for this? TV3 showing it, but only to viewers in the ROI >:(
Watching in the States on this link
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/todaygaa
Cant thank u enough!
Been searching for last hr in internet cafe in Munich.
Some Armagh talent on display there. In the crowd at least.
Quote from: tyroneboi on July 17, 2010, 05:51:46 PM
Carmen your being very harsh saying Vernon is an average footballer. IMO he is fabulous player!BTW TV3 love their ads - very annoying!
Really? Never when i seen him.
25,947 paid in plus the rest
Whats the score?
McKeever done rightly there. A goal in this game would be huge
great goal save by armagh
another let of
how many skinnings has Andy mallon got this year
come on armagh
I just keep thinking that Ronan Clarke is some loss for Armagh (obviously I suppose!)
Fair amount of wides hit from 35 metres plus out
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 17, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on July 17, 2010, 04:52:11 PM
any live streams for this? TV3 showing it, but only to viewers in the ROI >:(
Watching in the States on this link
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/todaygaa
Nice one Harp.
soccer supporters on the hill? Not sure why Armagh didn't get the free at the other end
Mallon missing/his goal chance saved looks to be a turning point in the game
Quote from: Celt_Man on July 17, 2010, 06:27:38 PM
Mallon missing/his goal chance saved looks to be a turning point in the game
yea i agree... they need a goal badly!!!!
Brogan will pay for dropping that ball into the keepers hands.
Dublin = Shite
Armagh = even worse shite
the booing of the so call dublin fans a disgrace when stevie taking his frees
Brogan on the pitch when he took that sideline ball maybe?? Terrible marking even so
Brutal game.... Need to the hurling to rescue a poor afternoon
Useless Armagh ! Just lost a bet! I was sure that they would take Dublin considering that they are shite too! Very poor fare today!
Shite.
Went out without getting the hiding that surely awaited from a better team.
They'll be calling for Paddy's head now in Armagh ... watch.
As for Gilroy, he gets a stay of execution, but a good win for him nonetheless.
Very impressed with McAuley again today.
Great worker and uses the ball well.
Pure shite - we got what we deserved and could not have done anymore to help Dublin win sort of tieing a pink ribbon round the ball and sending them a gift card with it.
Why must we year after year carry the ball into contact to loose it and pass the ball to the man with no space.
At least we wont be embarrased any more this year - very very disapointing
Once again, the downfall for Armagh has been their HF line. Anyone know what has happened to Charlie? Only 2-3 years back he beat Down on this own playing for Queens, but now insists in running into men and losing the ball. Is there nobody else POR can bring on into the attack that Feeney, im not saying that he is a bad player but surely we have somebody else who poses a more attacking threat?
It's what they're being coached to do obviously
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 17, 2010, 05:49:56 PM
Both teams cancelling each other out...C Vernon as usual running into tackles, no suprise there (he must have cost at least two scores), Duffy been at it too but usually he is good at running at teams, breaking tackles and moving the ball first time if needed. Mackin doing rightly IMO, someone said he's slow, he ain't the only one sallying along in the HF line. Very delayed in getting the ball forward. Not dying about Feeney coming on :-\
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 17, 2010, 05:49:38 PM
McDonnell barely getting anything nor is Jamie. Got 6 different scorers today and if we win that will be a positive. Armaggh also have to stop running into the tackles it isnt working.
Still got a feeling that Dublin are going to win this.
Quote from: our_fella on July 17, 2010, 06:39:57 PM
Once again, the downfall for Armagh has been their HF line. Anyone know what has happened to Charlie? Only 2-3 years back he beat Down on this own playing for Queens, but now insists in running into men and losing the ball. Is there nobody else POR can bring on into the attack that Feeney, im not saying that he is a bad player but surely we have somebody else who poses a more attacking threat?
Quote from: zoyler on July 17, 2010, 06:39:31 PM
Pure shite - we got what we deserved and could not have done anymore to help Dublin win sort of tieing a pink ribbon round the ball and sending them a gift card with it.
Why must we year after year carry the ball into contact to loose it and pass the ball to the man with no space.
At least we wont be embarrased any more this year - very very disapointing
The worry is ... if all these men on here see it but the line don't what is going on in their heads???
poor game armagh only have themselves to blame. got a bad feeling when brian mallon was named although he wasnt the worst vernon was crap, toner wasnt ready, dont start me on arron kernan ::) >:( stevie has been kicking low and to the left since the first day i ever saw him from outside 40m and still does let hearty take them, no diagonal balls. defence? only for mckeever it would have been a cricket score. our management were poor failed to see toner failed to spot vernon failed to get kernan to speed up his constant holding up the ball. paddy o rourke is a failure and will not get better time to go. one good bit hearty was good.
What a waste of an evening watching that durt. Worst two teams left in the championship by a county mile. Pity they couldn't both have went out. Whoever gets the dubs in the next round may as well get a by.
Quote from: The Konica on July 17, 2010, 06:44:52 PM
It's what they're being coached to do obviously
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 17, 2010, 05:49:56 PM
Both teams cancelling each other out...C Vernon as usual running into tackles, no suprise there (he must have cost at least two scores), Duffy been at it too but usually he is good at running at teams, breaking tackles and moving the ball first time if needed. Mackin doing rightly IMO, someone said he's slow, he ain't the only one sallying along in the HF line. Very delayed in getting the ball forward. Not dying about Feeney coming on :-\
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on July 17, 2010, 05:49:38 PM
McDonnell barely getting anything nor is Jamie. Got 6 different scorers today and if we win that will be a positive. Armaggh also have to stop running into the tackles it isnt working.
Still got a feeling that Dublin are going to win this.
Quote from: our_fella on July 17, 2010, 06:39:57 PM
Once again, the downfall for Armagh has been their HF line. Anyone know what has happened to Charlie? Only 2-3 years back he beat Down on this own playing for Queens, but now insists in running into men and losing the ball. Is there nobody else POR can bring on into the attack that Feeney, im not saying that he is a bad player but surely we have somebody else who poses a more attacking threat?
Quote from: zoyler on July 17, 2010, 06:39:31 PM
Pure shite - we got what we deserved and could not have done anymore to help Dublin win sort of tieing a pink ribbon round the ball and sending them a gift card with it.
Why must we year after year carry the ball into contact to loose it and pass the ball to the man with no space.
At least we wont be embarrased any more this year - very very disapointing
The worry is ... if all these men on here see it but the line don't what is going on in their heads???
It's what I call "Tacklebag Syndrome".
Yup ... wonder where that came from??? ;D
Your guess is as good as mine. ;D
Quote from: StGallsGAA on July 17, 2010, 06:56:58 PM
What a waste of an evening watching that durt. Worst two teams left in the championship by a county mile. Pity they couldn't both have went out. Whoever gets the dubs in the next round may as well get a by.
Could not agree more. Shite football from 2 shite teams. Both trying to stop each other rather than win the match. Endless grappling for breaking ball and brutal shooting. The honorable exception being Bernard Brogan. It would be great for the championship if both sides were out this evening.
Ultimately Dublin will have to find another scoring threat to help Brogan.
Keaney must have seriously dirtied his bib if Paddy Andrews is being brought on ahead of him.
Nice way to win. Very happy with work ethic in team............. a real welcome return after the last few years.
Thought referee was a tad harsh on Dublin, but not mindbogglingly so.
Very nice to still progress along under the radar with everyone belittling us.
Better subs swung game in our favour imo.
For a man piloried alot, I think Gilroy should get credit for his changes made. Nice to see a glimpse of a smile off him in TV3 interview post match.
Annoyed we didn't take any of the 4 goal chances............... Armagh nearly took there's(well done Philly).
I think Armagh should have a proper clear out for next year. They need to get rid of these average midfielders/half backs masquerading as half forwards. If I was an Armagh man I'd love to see a host of young lads from the last couple of years minor teams thrown into the squad. Lads like Grugan and Tasker who are natural footballers/finishers. Of course there is a place for a work horse/break ball man. However, one is plenty. Get men on who can do something different, the unexpected. It doesn't matter if they're given a couple of hard lessons early in the year let them develop and move away from the idea of 13 players to win ball and two inside men to do the scoring.
Quote from: omagh_gael on July 17, 2010, 07:16:04 PM
I think Armagh should have a proper clear out for next year. They need to get rid of these average midfielders/half backs masquerading as half forwards. If I was an Armagh man I'd love to see a host of young lads from the last couple of years minor teams thrown into the squad. Lads like Grugan and Tasker who are natural footballers/finishers. Of course there is a place for a work horse/break ball man. However, one is plenty. Get men on who can do something different, the unexpected. It doesn't matter if they're given a couple of hard lessons early in the year let them develop and move away from the idea of 13 players to win ball and two inside men to do the scoring.
Sound advice
Following on from Omagh_Gaels point, Armagh should blood the likes of McVerry, McKenna, Donnelly, Grugan, McParland, Murnin from the minors with members from last years u21 team like Comiskey, Harold etc next year during the McKenna Cup
Hopefully they do blood some younger players but what older players are going to make way? The team is specifically in need of HFs. I also wouldn't be calling for O'Rourke's head just yet, he wasn't given a chance at the start and tbh he hasn't been given a lot to work with.
Armagh need a HF line that can score big time. It would have made a huge difference this game because the FF 's were getting all the attention.
Lavery should have been put on earlier as he won some ball in midfield.
Defence need to tighten up.
Quicker ball upfield is needed. Too many hand passes and mistakes. Armagh looked like they had all the time in the world and at time there was no urgency.
Today Vernon never had a grea game, although he lost the ball a few times the Dublin defenders had to be drawn out, they absolutely flooded the Armagh FF's.
One positive that can be taken from today is the 6-7 different scorers.
I also think that both teams were crap and Dublin are heading for a hammering if they meet Monaghan/Tyrone - they are the two teams they have tp avoid. Also think that Limerick would run them close.
all POR has done is carryon where peter mcdonnell left off. peter got blasted with both barrels. once you hear a manager talking about enjoying the croke park experience or expressing themselves you know that he nothing but donkey pooh between his ears. our team were slow to the ball, they hand passed laterally and backwards instead of getting it up the fecken field quickly. we STILL have arron kernan holding up the ball, and passing the buck, getting caught in possession, a good manager would sit down with this guy and watch that game over and over, go through his stats, and tell him in no uncertain terms that hes one of the main reasons that we are getting beat, and that hes gonna be told to stay at home if he doesnt get the finger out. same story with charlie vernon his fecking around and shite passing cost us a handy win. the reason vernon didnt merit tight marking is because he cant shoot.. does no one ask how come stevie and young clarke were able to be double teamed? SIMPLE because our half fowards are in the half back line fouling and giving fellas who CAN shoot from distance easy scores from frees.
the only man imo that can turn this around is brian mc alinden and if i was on the county board i'd be at his door
happy with the result. Haven't beaten armagh for 30 years in the championship and we were owed one today.
An awful game though. Armagh are going nowhere really. Certainly thats the worst armagh team I've seen since the mid-90's. Its truly diffciult to put into words how bad armagh are. I can't find the right adjective they are so poor.
O Carroll had a fine game for dublin. Mc auley as well. Cullen played well at WF and B Brogan- well where would we be without him? A poor game though. the skills deficit on display though for senior inter county players was truly unbelievable.
Take the win anyway. But its the last 8 at best unless we get a really soft draw. Wouldn't mind a road trip. Only 25k in Croker. So no justification for having it on there.
Couldn't believe how many times Armagh both carried the ball into, and lost the ball in, the tackle. Not a great advertisement for McGurn's capabilities as a strength and conditioning coach.
Armagh look like a team who don't play much football in training. There is no fluency to their play at all, their play is so laboured and slow.
Quote from: gerry on July 17, 2010, 06:31:19 PM
the booing of the so call dublin fans a disgrace when stevie taking his frees
totally agree..they are the only fans in the country i have seen first hand do this and to be honest i taught it was a joke! stevie sud have been taken off frees wen tony kernan came on or tried them outa his hands or something...both stevie and clarke were doubled marked and we wud never win with such a senario as that!
Poor crowd, poor game. As noted by other Armagh had no sense of urgency whatsoever and often give the ball away needlessly. Yet we had our chances, apart from the goal and a silly turnover or two less and an ability to get a reasonable proportion of 45s. Dublin seem more determined in tacklling, but are not going to worry Kerry or Cork on today's display. McAuley seems a useful addition for Dublin, there was hardly a standout player for Armagh, but there will little good ball into the Stevie and Jamie. Vernon and Kernan are not without talent, but they haven't found a proper role.
Quote from: centrefield on July 17, 2010, 08:32:28 PM
Quote from: gerry on July 17, 2010, 06:31:19 PM
the booing of the so call dublin fans a disgrace when stevie taking his frees
totally agree..they are the only fans in the country i have seen first hand do this and to be honest i taught it was a joke! stevie sud have been taken off frees wen tony kernan came on or tried them outa his hands or something...both stevie and clarke were doubled marked and we wud never win with such a senario as that!
Ah yes its the dublins fans fault that Armagh have few players who can kick the ball accurately with one foot. Actually how many armagh players can even handpass properly? Unreal the amount of turnovers dublin got on basic handpassing errors. Armagh were physically bossed today. You'd wonder what Mc Gurn is doing with them.
Quote from: centrefield on July 17, 2010, 08:32:28 PM
Quote from: gerry on July 17, 2010, 06:31:19 PM
the booing of the so call dublin fans a disgrace when stevie taking his frees
totally agree..they are the only fans in the country i have seen first hand do this and to be honest i taught it was a joke! stevie sud have been taken off frees wen tony kernan came on or tried them outa his hands or something...both stevie and clarke were doubled marked and we wud never win with such a senario as that!
You mustn't go to many games.
Especially Louth games.
Quote from: centrefield on July 17, 2010, 08:32:28 PM
Quote from: gerry on July 17, 2010, 06:31:19 PM
the booing of the so call dublin fans a disgrace when stevie taking his frees
totally agree..they are the only fans in the country i have seen first hand do this and to be honest i taught it was a joke! stevie sud have been taken off frees wen tony kernan came on or tried them outa his hands or something...both stevie and clarke were doubled marked and we wud never win with such a senario as that!
Utter nonsensical utterances about the booing. Every county's fans are at it. Lazy anti-Dub waffle again.
your talking sh1t man was watching the Kildare Derry match and there was none of it and am watching the Cork Waterford match now and none of it either
there was plenty of it in the Kildare v Antrim games, the Kildare fans were particularly bad in Newbridge.
QuoteUtter nonsensical utterances about the booing. Every county's fans are at it. Lazy anti-Dub waffle again.
It may happen to some extent elsewhere, but Dublin are the main exponents. Other fans tend to boo only if they disagree with the decision to award the free. Dublin also jeer other teams coming on and off the pitch, like the Antrim hurlers today. In the 2003 league game I was astonished that many around me booed when Armagh came on the pitch, this after the previous years semi final which was without any spite or contention.
Quoteand am watching the Cork Waterford match now and none of it either
In fairness the Cork crowd did somewhat boo the Waterford entry for extra time.
We got a bit of it in Sligo, but it is usually kids rather than anything worth bothering about.
Let's face facts...Armagh were very poor and do not have the forwards to win a tight game. ::) For me the only player who played well today was McKeever...the rest were very poor. Sideline had no clue....never tried anyone else on Brogan. :o
Be thankful for Armagh exiting the fray with a 3 points defeat, for much worse surely lay ahead if they had progressed a round or two. Pure crap, and a serious amount of questions over the ability of a good few of that team today.
As for Dublin, they've lined themselves up for a serious tanking in the next few weeks.
Hardluck to Armagh.
Well done the Dubs.
About the booing lads, we have been doing that since the 70's, everyone knows what to expect coming to Croker, its not new and it will continue, get over it. Stevie missed a load of free chances shooting into the Canal end were there was no fans.
Dire game but at least we are still in the hat for the draw tomorrow, a trip to Roscommon would be nice please.
Quotethe booing of the so call dublin fans a disgrace when stevie taking his frees
Don't rule out that there might have been a few Armagh fans booing what their own team was serving up as football.
Can't say the booing thing ever really bothered me tbh.
Kind of like being at a panto. :P
Quote from: muppet on July 17, 2010, 09:01:16 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 17, 2010, 08:59:58 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on July 17, 2010, 07:24:56 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 17, 2010, 07:19:33 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 17, 2010, 06:29:48 PM
Dublin = Shite
Armagh = even worse shite
+1
Did no ever tell you LL that self praise is no praise ;)
+1
Did you forget to log out and back in under the other name?
-1
QuoteArmagh were very poor and do not have the forwards to win a tight game.
With Ronan Clarke missing , an allstar class forward, Armagh were always going to have problems. This defeat was as much our fault as Dublins, we would have been much worse off if we remained until meeting a big gun in a later round.
Pains me to hear what some are saying about Armagh. The nucleus of a good team is there but the way we have played at times this year has led some to use words like Crap, shite,useless etc. with the players at our disposal we should be better and i think its down to the way we are set out. Not knockin the management but we do need to change the way we approach games.
B. Brogan scored 5/6 from play today...is it worth playing a sweeper???
blooding some of last years minors will help us, but we need to be more forward thinking.
congrats Dublin- as physically strong a side as i have ever come across...BB needs help though.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 17, 2010, 09:13:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 17, 2010, 09:01:16 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 17, 2010, 08:59:58 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on July 17, 2010, 07:24:56 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 17, 2010, 07:19:33 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 17, 2010, 06:29:48 PM
Dublin = Shite
Armagh = even worse shite
+1
Did no ever tell you LL that self praise is no praise ;)
+1
Did you forget to log out and back in under the other name?
-1
The Real Leenie?
Jaysus that was poor, poor stuff. Said before the game that I wouldn't have been too disappointed to lose at this stage as a decent amount of progress had already be made this year, but you couldn't help but be frustrated by going out playing such ugly shite.
There'll probably be a bit of hyperbole about wholesale changes in personnel heading into next year, but that's not the problem. It's that horrible style of football that's holding us back. We won't win anything playing like that, regardless of who's in the jerseys. There's too much intricate hand passing and too much carrying into contact. We're like a rugby team, trying to offload the ball in the tackle. Every attack is slow and predictable. The reason the half forwards are so ineffective is because they're continuously drawn backwards to receive shit little five yard hand passes from the defenders coming out. Moves break down around the opposition 50 because we eventually run out of players to run backwards for another five yard pass. What I don't understand is the criticism of certain players for playing this way. The whole team has signed up to it, they're just doing what they've been sent out to do, focusing on any one in particular misses the point.
On the match itself, I was happy enough with Hearty, who's had a solid championship. Donaghy also had a decent game. Mallon struggled, worryingly not for the first time this year. Top forwards can outmuscle him. Martin was better than I expected, but he's not a corner back and there are better corner backs in the county.
McKeever was Armagh's best player in my eyes. Fantastic positional sense, although maybe it's easy to look good when you're not marking anyone. Duffy had his worst game in a good while, was one of the main culprits for carrying the ball into contact. Moriarty was quiet, he'll have a job holding onto his jersey with Comiskey, McKenna and a hopefully improved Dyas about next year. Aaron Kernan spending most of the game in this line epitomised the dour crap we were at.
Midfield was a disaster zone again. It's a pity our two best midfielders got injured at such a crucial stage of the year. Mackin just isn't good enough at this level and Vernon has had a very disappointing year in the middle. Vernon doesn't compete well enough in the air and needs to realise that he won't get away with trying to barge through 3 or 4 men at this level. Swift was probably the pick of out lads in this area, he's been a definite positive this year.
Feeney, like Mackin, seems a bit short of the quality needed for county football. He didn't bring much to the party. Brian Mallon was alright, far from our worst player on the day. This area needs to be the focus of attention next spring. I'd throw Rory Grugan in at the deep end and let him get on with it. The lads we have playing here will never reach the levels required to get us back to the top, but young fellas like Grugan might.
McDonnell and Clarke were well bottled up. Dublin had at least three men on the two of them at all times, sometimes four. High balls pumped in came straight back out. If we were to win we needed to give these two a steady supply of good ball, instead they were left feeding on scraps.
I'd still maintain that we've moved forward this year with a couple of useful additions and some invaluable experience garnered, but today showed us how far we still have to travel. It was probably better to go out on a respectable scoreline to a half decent team, than to face another mauling at the hands of a Cork or Kerry.
Fcuk it, minor football is where it's at anyway.
In fairness AFS you must have been starting from the abyss if that armagh team have moved on this year. I think you're up shit creek for the forseeable future. You'll see us paddling around in there as well.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 17, 2010, 09:54:53 PM
In fairness AFS you must have been starting from the abyss if that armagh team have moved on this year. I think you're up shit creek for the forseeable future. You'll see us paddling around in there as well.
Did you not see us last year?
exactly AFS. hooray for the minors. but it should be pointed out that some of the lads playing today are off probably the best u21 team of the decade, who apart from one game in their campaign won easily and convincingly. what have we done to them? theyre slow, ponderous, ethergys of the players they once were. since u21 level one poor manager after another, two rugby coaches, weights and more weights, all trying to emulate the 2002 team who were already battle hardened for 4 years when they won. armagh football is in a really crappy place right now, forget about losen the match we've managed to get rid of 20000 football fanatics who fought over tickets...
I thought that the reason that we carried so much ball into contact today was that time and again they had no half forward to play the ball to.
It was a decision to either kick it aimlessly or at least try to beat a man, unfortuantely the Dubs were way too strong for Duffy, Vernon & co today.
well done the dubs better team on the day and showed more hunger for the win but must be said (again) 2 bad teams who had/have no chance of winning sam. on armagh we bring in POR and i was thinking good an outsider with fresh ideas and a fresh start for the team and all players and who does he take as part of backroom only donal murtagh who only has time for the cross lads as shown again 2day got as many as he could a run out. while stevie is the main man why can he not hold his hands up when not on it and let some1 else like arron kernan hit the frees from distance,after all he is the captain and should put the team first.armagh dont deserve to win anything as long as they pack the defence and leave the forward line outnumbered,its ok turning over the ball in defence but when we go forward there no1 there only 2 forwards against 6 defenders. that was ok a few years back but the game has moved on its time to open up and play the game ie kerry,tyrone. its better getting beat having had a go than getting beat by sitting back trying to win by a point.
ffs every time they ended up on top of the ball i was waiting for them to hand it out through their legs like rugby league ::) brutal stuff.
:o :o jez how bad are donegal :o :o
Quote from: INDIANA on July 17, 2010, 08:22:38 PM
happy with the result. Haven't beaten armagh for 30 years in the championship and we were owed one today.
An awful game though. Armagh are going nowhere really. Certainly thats the worst armagh team I've seen since the mid-90's. Its truly diffciult to put into words how bad armagh are. I can't find the right adjective they are so poor.
O Carroll had a fine game for dublin. Mc auley as well. Cullen played well at WF and B Brogan- well where would we be without him? A poor game though. the skills deficit on display though for senior inter county players was truly unbelievable.
Take the win anyway. But its the last 8 at best unless we get a really soft draw. Wouldn't mind a road trip. Only 25k in Croker. So no justification for having it on there.
Indiana, you have been way too hard on the Dub footballers and way too soft on the hurlers. The Dublin hurlers lost to a poor Antrim team and the footballers beat a decent Armagh team, they deserve some credit. I thought they defended with tenacity and courage and in Bernard Brogan you have a better footballer than your likely to ever have a hurler, the man is a genius. Dublin won't win the AI but they are as good as most teams in Ireland and it is about time Gilroy got a small bit of slack.
QuoteI thought that the reason that we carried so much ball into contact today was that time and again they had no half forward to play the ball to.
When Armagh had the ball there weren't the runs to provide an outlet for the pass, so the man tended to carry the ball. Like my avatar you need players there to take the pass and so often there is nobody there. I am a bit disappointed with McGurns contribution, we are as ponderous as we were last year. There is none of the zip that characterises the likes of Tyrone who are capable of breaking at speed, even the likes of Aaron seems to have slowed down.
McAuley looks like he could be a massive player for Dublin over the next few years.
He has plenty to work on such as his kicking and the fact that he looks to be carrying a few pounds but the most important thing is that he has a bit of swagger and never drops his head.
Every time he got the ball today he looked to do something positive with it.
It's a pity for Dublin that Whelo didn't stick around for another year.
Quote from: Zulu on July 17, 2010, 10:28:00 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 17, 2010, 08:22:38 PM
happy with the result. Haven't beaten armagh for 30 years in the championship and we were owed one today.
An awful game though. Armagh are going nowhere really. Certainly thats the worst armagh team I've seen since the mid-90's. Its truly diffciult to put into words how bad armagh are. I can't find the right adjective they are so poor.
O Carroll had a fine game for dublin. Mc auley as well. Cullen played well at WF and B Brogan- well where would we be without him? A poor game though. the skills deficit on display though for senior inter county players was truly unbelievable.
Take the win anyway. But its the last 8 at best unless we get a really soft draw. Wouldn't mind a road trip. Only 25k in Croker. So no justification for having it on there.
Indiana, you have been way too hard on the Dub footballers and way too soft on the hurlers. The Dublin hurlers lost to a poor Antrim team and the footballers beat a decent Armagh team, they deserve some credit. I thought they defended with tenacity and courage and in Bernard Brogan you have a better footballer than your likely to ever have a hurler, the man is a genius. Dublin won't win the AI but they are as good as most teams in Ireland and it is about time Gilroy got a small bit of slack.
1- Zulu I haven't even started with the hurlers yet. I'm giving myself a day to cool off because If i posted what I think about them this evening I'll be permanently banned. But rest assured my thoughts are in the offing.
2- What happens if Bernard is marked? Are you telling me that was a good standard game today. We won thats what made it worthwhile. It was a very poor game of football though. We judge ourselves by the highest standards in Dublin. Thats the way we've always been. When we beat a good side I'll be happy. Note the emphasis on " good". That does not mean the top 3. It would be cruelty for us to face Cork or Kerry this year.
A good year for us would be beating Monaghan/Sligo/Tyrone etc in a knockout game.
the only team who hand pass the ball more than we do out of defence are donegal. we don't have Andrew mccann or keiran hughes tearing up the wings putting loads of diagonal balls into the forwards we have Vernon running into a wall of opposition jerseys and spilling the ball, even when hes got a clear run he runs toward defenders so he can bounce off them. then if he finally makes it through he'll either blaze it wide or pass to kernan who'll run back down the field out of the scoring zone and lay it off. in the meantime the hole opposition team have walked up the field and are now packing their defence. we are happy enough to conseed the ground between our full forwards and our mid field because our hf line is on our own 45, in the mistaken idea that because we don't have anyone willing to have a punt that our opposition are the same. this method of play is hiding the the undeniable truth that we have players who are not at the top level. if we are ever to discover who they are we must go man to man in what games are left this year and before the start of next years championship then we'll get a better idea what our best team is and take it from there
But in fairness Indiana what is a good team? Outside of the big three I think Dublin are there or thereabouts. Everybody keeps saying if they meet a good team they'll get beat but other than the big 3 I think they'd have a chance, don't you?
Daly has got a way too easy ride from Dub supports, who are just glad Dublin aren't getting hammered any more. The man has the easiest job in sport.
Well done Dublin but I wouldn't get carried away just yet. Brogan had a great day but there were two others in the full forward line that didn't trouble the scoreboard attendants. Shut him down and you shut the Dublin attack out.
One very big rant - this whistling and booing of the free takers is sickening and to be fair not just a Dublin issue. Heard it last week also at the Leinster Fiasco Final.
It happened at the Munster final too, it isn't a big deal IMO.
QuoteWe don't have the players of the quality of 99 to 05 and those that we have are regressing under the current regime.
The only possible exception to this is that Jamie Clark has shown a lot of potential. But under this system the ball will never reach him. :(
It is astonishing that having taken Donegal apart, Armagh have borrowed most of the same tactics.
totally agree typ. as i said theyve just stole peter mcdonnells game plan. but in fairness to the team its cabbage and bacon every day, weights tackle bags rowing machines and defending as if your life depended on it but dont fowl.. blah blah. these players have natural ability mal mackin didnt score that fantastic point through anything that mcgurn taught him, but the flare and creativity is being drummed out of them by coaches who are being picked themselves by panelists on our county board who are stuck in 2002. the clean out must be root and branch.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 17, 2010, 11:26:56 PMArmagh have not moved forward in the last year.
Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I see at least a couple of signs of progression. Promotion to the top division is a positive, and we will benefit from the exposure to better teams next spring. In Jamie Clarke and Gareth Swift, we may have filled two of the open slots in our forward line for the foreseeable future. Several of the promising U21s and minors from the last couple of years have been introduced to the panel, no doubt in advance of larger roles next year. And we've won championship games, which is not to be sniffed at. This year we've equalled our win tally for the three previous years combined. I wonder if those that say this year was not an improvement really appreciated how far we had fallen by the end of McDonnell's reign.
Terrible performance today. The simple fact is a number of them players are good enough to be starting that team (Martin, Mackin, Moriarty). And some players aren't played in the right positions (Kernan and Vernon)negative tactics, playing the half forward line in the half back line hence the reason why Dublin could double up on Clarke and McDonnell. TBH armagh were given a couple of handy frees which lead to them getting back into the game. With that second half performance there should have been 6 or 7 in it, we were lucky to be still in the game come the last 5 mins. Swift went down very easily to win a couple of them frees. And whats with bringing in hanratty when chasing the game in the last 5 mins? Didn't understand that one at all!!
Not long through the door here, not got much to say about the match yet, have read some of the comments on here and agree with some but disagree with others, I will get to that
I met Ulick and hardstation earlier, 2 nice blokes, especially Ulick, gushing over how beautiful my son is :D ;D
Don't worry, normal service will be resumed shortly
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 17, 2010, 06:29:48 PM
Dublin = Shite
Armagh = even worse shite
So where does that leave Laois? Pull out of Sam Maguire and enter the Junior AI?
Sure look on the bright side, your erstwhile IC star who retired from IC football and then engaged in a bidding war with a neighbouring club of yours (having done a lucrative two year stint with them) with the LCB emerging the winners has come off the payroll and the LCB wont have to pay anymore players to play IC football anymore, though Colm Parkinson said in a recent interview castigating Micko that he's 'thinking about playing for Laois next year'.
The future is bright. The future is Laois.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 17, 2010, 09:13:06 PM
Can't say the booing thing ever really bothered me tbh.
Kind of like being at a panto. :P
Well I hope it doesn't bother you Jinkxy cos both sets of fans were doing it last Sunday at Sludden-gate!
the ref was very good i thought although he made a couple of boobs in armaghs favour
QuoteAnd we've won championship games, which is not to be sniffed at. This year we've equalled our win tally for the three previous years combined.
Not so. We won an Ulster title two years ago, winning games in the process and beat Dublin well in the the league. The Ulster win was fortunate, to be sure, but McDonnell's first year was modest success until the second half of the Wexford game. Neither Derry, Donegal nor Fermanagh are as good as two or three years ago.
Well as me auntie said afterwards "Isnt it unbelievable that Armagh were worse". I think that sums it up.
Still, I'm delighted with the win.
Cluxton's kickouts were generally fantastic - what a player, definite All Star this year ;D
The full back line are young and green, and will get hammered from time to time. But I'm very happy that Gilroy is sticking with them, and I thought they did well today - particularly Philly.
I know one or two might have been advocating throwing Kevin Nolan to the scrapheap after he disappointed v Tipp, but again Gilroy was rewarded for showing some faith in a young lad. Super performance from Kev.
Midfield was generally awful. McConnell and Fennell caught no contested high ball. McAuley was very good in parts, but didnt win enough primary possession for me. However, he caught two super high balls in the last few minutes, which were instrumental in our win. I don't particularly rate Big Darren, but he's better than McConnell and Fennell, so time to bring him back.
I love Cullen, but thought he was very mediocre today. He never got into the game, contributed nothing, and was lucky to last as long as he did.
Corkery and O'Gara were disappointing IMO.
Al had a very good first half and was instrumental in bringing us back from 6-2 down to level. Not so hot in the 2nd half and I wish he wouldnt take on shots from ridiculous angles.
Bernard was sensational. Our best fielder today among other things.. I'd nearly play him midfield, only we'd have nobody to kick scores!
McManamon and Andrews were very medicore today, and did nothing to justify the calls from supporters for their inclusion. Conal Keaney is far better than either IMO. EDIT - Both were actually much better than I thought in replay, so I got that completely wrong! Tho I'd still prefer CK.
Flynn did reasonably well, and kicked a great point. The kick up the butt from Gilroy might have done the trick. If he could get rid of the hint of laziness, he could be a proper footballer, because he has all the ability.
Roll on Round 4!! 8)
Quote from: All of a Sludden on July 18, 2010, 12:36:41 AM
been told by a very good source that was Steven McDonnells last game.
Hopefully not - plenty left to contribute yet
JEZ! TYP i didnt think mal was armaghs worst offender. but your right vernon was crap and kernan was close behind him, the two cross lads comming on with seconds to go was the biggest joke of all and had to be murtaghs idea. forget that we needed every second to possibly fluke a "meathie" but neither of the lads have exactly lit up the championship. we already had a guy giving the ball away all the time ???
Quote from: heffo on July 18, 2010, 12:41:27 AM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on July 18, 2010, 12:36:41 AM
been told by a very good source that was Steven McDonnells last game.
Hopefully not - plenty left to contribute yet
I heard earlier this year that this would be his last year. He is carrying that team.
I think Armagh peaked in this years division 2 final, it's been all downhill since there apart from some facile wins over poor Uster teams.
IMO Steven McDonnell should have retired a couple of years ago. He was worse than useless last year. This year, he was far more enthusiastic, but the supporting cast are not up to the task.
Armagh are light years behind what's required and as other posters have said, they're better to be knocked out at this stage, than suffer a hiding at HQ from Cork or Kerry.
wouldn't blame Stevie if he did quit, he was definitely peed off there today but hes only 31 according to TV3. something tells me paddy mckeever is younger than that and he quit.
There were multiple schoolboy errors from men who should know better, men couldn't shoot, pass properly. It seemed to me the only thing most were confident in was handpassing. Half forwards were playing deep in our own half for the entire game! Bullshit, it didn't work under McDonnell, why would it suddenly work under O'Rourke? There seemed to be no ideas on the line, the substitutions they made were both stupid and too late in the day
That's the best I can do right now but it sums it up
Quote from: heffo on July 18, 2010, 12:13:19 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 17, 2010, 09:13:06 PM
Can't say the booing thing ever really bothered me tbh.
Kind of like being at a panto. :P
Well I hope it doesn't bother you Jinkxy cos both sets of fans were doing it last Sunday at Sludden-gate!
Us Meath fans were saying "Boo-urns!"
o'rourke must go. mc alinden is the man! and get rid of these rugby gym bunnies, our lads are like oil tankers its taking the whole pitch to get them turned
Quote from: lawnseed on July 18, 2010, 12:51:39 AM
wouldn't blame Stevie if he did quit, he was definitely peed off there today
What happened that he was peed off? I didnt see the game
stevie is playing good football he needs a bit of support from his team mates no one man can win a game on his own. >:( >:( stevie has been one of our best players over the last ten years 8) 8) hope this is only all talk
Quote from: Hound on July 18, 2010, 12:28:02 AM
Well as me auntie said afterwards "Isnt it unbelievable that Armagh were worse". I think that sums it up.
Still, I'm delighted with the win.
Cluxton's kickouts were generally fantastic - what a player, definite All Star this year ;D
The full back line are young and green, and will get hammered from time to time. But I'm very happy that Gilroy is sticking with them, and I thought they did well today - particularly Philly.
I know Indiana was advocating throwing Kevin Nolan to the scrapheap after he disappointed v Tipp, but again Gilroy was rewarded for showing some faith in a young lad. Super performance from Kev.
Midfield was generally awful. McConnell and Fennell caught no contested high ball. McAuley was very good in parts, but didnt win enough primary possession for me. However, he caught two super high balls in the last few minutes, which were instrumental in our win. I don't particularly rate Big Darren, but he's better than McConnell and Fennell, so time to bring him back.
I love Cullen, but thought he was very mediocre today. He never got into the game, contributed nothing, and was lucky to last as long as he did.
Corkery and O'Gara were shambolic. Neither should have lasted more than 15 minutes. Two mullockers with feck all ability. They might remind Pat of himself, but I dont want to see either again.
Al had a very good first half and was instrumental in bringing us back from 6-2 down to level. Not so hot in the 2nd half and I wish he wouldnt take on shots from ridiculous angles.
Bernard was sensational. Our best fielder today among other things.. I'd nearly play him midfield, only we'd have nobody to kick scores!
McManamon and Andrews were very medicore today, and did nothing to justify the calls from supporters for their inclusion. Conal Keaney is far better than either IMO.
Flynn did reasonably well, and kicked a great point. The kick up the butt from Gilroy might have done the trick. If he could get rid of the hint of laziness, he could be a proper footballer, because he has all the ability.
Roll on Round 4!! 8)
Jaysus I thought Cullen was as good as I've seen him these last couple of years..Stuck in everything resulting in a lot of fumbles,
Bernard Brogan is def as good as there is in the country, Armagh threw their finest at him and could do nothing at all with him
even McKeever sweeping couldn't get her done.
O'Gara was a bit of a joke alright...whoever said earlier about him running around like he thinks he's better than he is hit the nail on the head!
Armagh are carrying a fair few passengers in fairness and Paddy O might just be one of them... What was behind bringing on Hanratty
at the end ??? could someone enlighten me as to what it is I'm missing about that lad :-\
Quote from: fan01 on July 18, 2010, 01:03:37 AM
stevie is playing good football he needs a bit of support from his team mates no one man can win a game on his own. >:( >:( stevie has been one of our best players over the last ten years 8) 8) hope this is only all talk
Bernard Brogan did :P
Quote from: armaghniac on July 18, 2010, 12:17:50 AM
QuoteAnd we've won championship games, which is not to be sniffed at. This year we've equalled our win tally for the three previous years combined.
Not so. We won an Ulster title two years ago, winning games in the process and beat Dublin well in the the league. The Ulster win was fortunate, to be sure, but McDonnell's first year was modest success until the second half of the Wexford game. Neither Derry, Donegal nor Fermanagh are as good as two or three years ago.
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. We won three championship games from 2007 to 2009. This year we won three games. That's the only point I was making.
Quote from: lawnseed on July 18, 2010, 01:00:31 AM
o'rourke must go. mc alinden is the man! and get rid of these rugby gym bunnies, our lads are like oil tankers its taking the whole pitch to get them turned
As far as I remember lots of people wanted rid of McAlinden when he was part of the management team, I wonder if you were one of them? :D
This talk of O'Rourke must go should stop if you have half a brain, this is his first year and he has brought Armagh into Division 1 though after today's performance, I fear for the tankings they are going to get from everyone in Division 1 next year
Ciaran McKeever is a legend!
Quote from: anportmorforjfc on July 18, 2010, 12:05:59 AM
And whats with bringing in hanratty when chasing the game in the last 5 mins? Didn't understand that one at all!!
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 18, 2010, 01:09:57 AM
What was behind bringing on Hanratty
at the end ??? could someone enlighten me as to what it is I'm missing about that lad :-\
Quote from: lawnseed on July 18, 2010, 12:42:33 AM
the two cross lads comming on with seconds to go was the biggest joke of all and had to be murtaghs idea.
We needed a goal, so two forwards were brought on. It was a last throw of the dice. What's not to get?
QuoteI'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. We won three championship games from 2007 to 2009. This year we won three games. That's the only point I was making.
I suppose I am saying that it only the luck of the draw. If we had drawn Tyrone and then Monaghan we would not have performed better this year than last. We can probably beat any other Ulster team.
We did win Division 2 and that was good work, but last year we were third behind Monaghan and Cork, there weren't any teams that good in Div 2 this year.
As for tankings in Div 1, we have done as well as Galway or Mayo, losing our two games to Div 1 oppostion, not Div 3 or 4 opposition.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on July 18, 2010, 12:36:41 AM
been told by a very good source that was Steven McDonnells last game.
Pity he didn't let his mate Paddy know before he made a bollocks of himself talking about Stevie staying on for another few years.
http://www.armagh-gaa.com/Orchard-TV/News/AUDIO---Dublin-0-14-Armagh-0-11.aspx
Just Back. From an Armagh perspective, brutal stuff. No ideas in the final third.
Armagh players seemed to run into trouble too easily.
If there was a dead end, they seemed to find it.
Never looked like the management could affect things from the line.
Not sure where we go from here, feels like backwards at present.
Are we that better than we were under Mcdonnell? Not so sure.
Anyone watching Armagh the year knew that was coming. Beating
Down papered over cracks.
Some talented players there but don't think
we're gonna see the best of them until regime changes. Thankful we don't
have to face Cork, would have set some of the young lads back years.
Poor turnout. Dublin booing? Get over it. Enjoyed the craic in Drumcondra,
as always, with the Dubs. They've no illusions about progress this year, but are
better positioned than we are.
If it's Stevies last game, the man owes Armagh nothing. Emptied the tank
the last few years and our most consistent performer for a decade. Missed
a couple today but still scored 6/7 of our scores. Legend.
Quote from: AFS on July 17, 2010, 09:38:36 PM
There'll probably be a bit of hyperbole about wholesale changes in personnel heading into next year, but that's not the problem. It's that horrible style of football that's holding us back. We won't win anything playing like that, regardless of who's in the jerseys. There's too much intricate hand passing and too much carrying into contact. We're like a rugby team, trying to offload the ball in the tackle. Every attack is slow and predictable. The reason the half forwards are so ineffective is because they're continuously drawn backwards to receive shit little five yard hand passes from the defenders coming out.
Quote from: loughshore lad on July 17, 2010, 08:26:14 PM
Couldn't believe how many times Armagh both carried the ball into, and lost the ball in, the tackle. Not a great advertisement for McGurn's capabilities as a strength and conditioning coach.
Armagh look like a team who don't play much football in training. There is no fluency to their play at all, their play is so laboured and slow.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 17, 2010, 08:37:56 PM
Ah yes its the dublins fans fault that Armagh have few players who can kick the ball accurately with one foot. Actually how many armagh players can even handpass properly? Unreal the amount of turnovers dublin got on basic handpassing errors. Armagh were physically bossed today. You'd wonder what Mc Gurn is doing with them.
Quote from: lawnseed on July 17, 2010, 10:03:39 PM
exactly AFS. hooray for the minors. but it should be pointed out that some of the lads playing today are off probably the best u21 team of the decade, who apart from one game in their campaign won easily and convincingly. what have we done to them? theyre slow, ponderous, ethergys of the players they once were. since u21 level one poor manager after another, two rugby coaches, weights and more weights, all trying to emulate the 2002 team who were already battle hardened for 4 years when they won. armagh football is in a really crappy place right now, forget about losen the match we've managed to get rid of 20000 football fanatics who fought over tickets...
Quote from: armaghniac on July 17, 2010, 10:30:43 PM
When Armagh had the ball there weren't the runs to provide an outlet for the pass, so the man tended to carry the ball. Like my avatar you need players there to take the pass and so often there is nobody there. I am a bit disappointed with McGurns contribution, we are as ponderous as we were last year. There is none of the zip that characterises the likes of Tyrone who are capable of breaking at speed, even the likes of Aaron seems to have slowed down.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 17, 2010, 11:26:56 PM
McGurn has cost a fortune and the Armagh players have regressed in terms of fitness. Few were fast enough to track back. A Kernan and M Mackin were so slow it was embarassing. Few could hold the ball in the tackle, spilling the ball all over the field.
Tactically Armagh are lost. handpassing is fine if it works and allows fast and accurate interchange with the time moving forward. Armagh handpasses are being intercepted almost half of the time because they miss the target, they are loopy and too slow.
Quote from: lawnseed on July 18, 2010, 01:00:31 AM
o'rourke must go. mc alinden is the man! and get rid of these rugby gym bunnies, our lads are like oil tankers its taking the whole pitch to get them turned
Some great comments over the past few pages - just wanted to summarize them ...
- Poor emphasis and ability to kick pass across the team
- Excessive carrying the ball into the tackle
- Too much handpassing and not moving the ball fast enough
- No physical strength
- No speed, explosiveness or fluency to the teams play
- Still following the 2002 model - which is now out of date
- Hearty despite the criticism earlier before the championship started has been one of the best this year and solid
- Andy Mallon is struggling to regain form and lacking physicality
- McKeever has had a very good year - but as a free man.
- Good competition for places between Duffy, Moriarty, Dyas, McKenna and Comiskey, McKenna.
- Aaron Kernan is very slow and ponderous on the ball and is not playing in the best position.
- Vernon has had a poor season, struggles in the air at Midfield and carries the ball into contact too much.
- Mackin has struggled this year.
- Mallon tries hard and gave a decent account of himself this year.
- McDonnell tried very hard this year but is under severe pressure struggling to carry the full forward line
- Full Forward line is struggling without a Clarke or other quality support player to spread the threat.
- Minor players need to begin to be introduced
- Overall, a small improvement from last year and possibly going in the right direction.
Is that a fair synopsis?
Dublin now look like a team that could make a run for the semi finals!
And this is in a year where I think nearly everybody agrees they are a long way off their standards over the past 5 years.
Round 4 of the Qualifiers looks very winnable. And given the right draw they will have a good shot at a Quarter Final. You just never know what might happen from there.
Maybe it says something for the standard of this years championship.
Quote from: Hound on July 18, 2010, 12:28:02 AM
Well as me auntie said afterwards "Isnt it unbelievable that Armagh were worse". I think that sums it up.
Still, I'm delighted with the win.
Cluxton's kickouts were generally fantastic - what a player, definite All Star this year ;D
The full back line are young and green, and will get hammered from time to time. But I'm very happy that Gilroy is sticking with them, and I thought they did well today - particularly Philly.
I know one or two might have been advocating throwing Kevin Nolan to the scrapheap after he disappointed v Tipp, but again Gilroy was rewarded for showing some faith in a young lad. Super performance from Kev.
Midfield was generally awful. McConnell and Fennell caught no contested high ball. McAuley was very good in parts, but didnt win enough primary possession for me. However, he caught two super high balls in the last few minutes, which were instrumental in our win. I don't particularly rate Big Darren, but he's better than McConnell and Fennell, so time to bring him back.
I love Cullen, but thought he was very mediocre today. He never got into the game, contributed nothing, and was lucky to last as long as he did.
Corkery and O'Gara were shambolic. Neither should have lasted more than 15 minutes. Two mullockers with feck all ability. They might remind Pat of himself, but I dont want to see either again.
Al had a very good first half and was instrumental in bringing us back from 6-2 down to level. Not so hot in the 2nd half and I wish he wouldnt take on shots from ridiculous angles.
Bernard was sensational. Our best fielder today among other things.. I'd nearly play him midfield, only we'd have nobody to kick scores!
McManamon and Andrews were very medicore today, and did nothing to justify the calls from supporters for their inclusion. Conal Keaney is far better than either IMO.
Flynn did reasonably well, and kicked a great point. The kick up the butt from Gilroy might have done the trick. If he could get rid of the hint of laziness, he could be a proper footballer, because he has all the ability.
Roll on Round 4!! 8)
Nolan did not have a great game. Average. And Cullen was one of the reasons we won. His tracking and covering at wing forward was absolutely brilliant. Its taken the management the guts of 2 years to make a decision to play him at WF. that was a question that and Dublin fan could haveanswered during the commercial break for Coronation Street.
The full back line only had to mark two men!! Course they looked great.
I thought Mc Auley was great. Love the way he physically imposes himself. Great bit of stuff.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 17, 2010, 11:26:56 PM
Armagh have not moved forward in the last year. POR has brought little new to the table and with Donal Murtagh beside him, he is not left to carry the can on his own.
McGurn has cost a fortune and the Armagh players have regressed in terms of fitness. Few were fast enough to track back. A Kernan and M Mackin were so slow it was embarassing. Few could hold the ball in the tackle, spilling the ball all over the field.
Tactically Armagh are lost. handpassing is fine if it works and allows fast and accurate interchange with the time moving forward. Armagh handpasses are being intercepted almost half of the time because they miss the target, they are loopy and too slow.
Sideline has nothing to offer when things are not working out. No changes or substitions are made until it is too late. POR, Justin McNulty and donal Murtagh have not moved the team forward.
We don't have the players of the quality of 99 to 05 and those that we have are regressing under the current regime.
I'd have to agree with that. I honestly thought you were a complete shambles. For a recognised football county who live for Gaelic Football I couldn't get over how far back you've gone. For some of the weaker counties you'd expect that standard.
Quote from: Barney on July 18, 2010, 09:42:24 AM
Dublin now look like a team that could make a run for the semi finals!
And this is in a year where I think nearly everybody agrees they are a long way off their standards over the past 5 years.
Round 4 of the Qualifiers looks very winnable. And given the right draw they will have a good shot at a Quarter Final. You just never know what might happen from there.
Maybe it says something for the standard of this years championship.
Depends on the draw Barney. Lets get real here. Armagh are a poor team at present. I'd be lieing if I said I wouldn't like to get Roscommon next if that result goes the way the bookies think it will. I'm not sure I'd like to draw Louth next. I think every piece of fire will be delivered upon their next opponents. Having said that I'd prefer them to some of the others.
Limerick I want to avoid. A physically powerful team with good man markers and some good forwards. But they'd be preferable to Monaghan and Tyrone who I completely want to avoid for another round.
After that who knows. I think we can make the quarters. But after that depends on the draw. I would gladly donate money to avoid Cork and Kerry this year because another double digit defeat will finish us off.
In many ways reviewing the above. Its incredible how far back we've gone. We need more players like Rory O Carroll. Thats the reality. We need another 6/7 like him.
That's the first money I've taken off the bookies in about 2 years (apart from a refund).
Dublin are no world beaters but Armagh are hopeless. No real quality players of note apart from from McDonnell and the absent Clarke. Jamie Clarke is overhyped as Vernon was a year ago and was completely outmuscled yesterday. Reminded me of McComiskey's first year. Armagh are one-dimensional and until they rid themselves completely of the Kernan/Grimley type of player and tactics they're going nowhere fast. Dublin actually seemed more physical than Armagh but much more mobile and less obsessed with negating the opposition as an initial tactic as Armagh are.
However, Paddy O'Rourke now has the chance to unfurl a new era for Armagh football. They're in Division One next year and outside or 1-2 teams, there are no big shakes in that division. If he can usher in a few big changes in terms of personnel and approach then you never know. For me, McKeever as captain typifies all that's wrong with Armagh's approach even though some reckon he's had a good year.
Quote from: ONeill on July 18, 2010, 11:00:06 AM
That's the first money I've taken off the bookies in about 2 years (apart from a refund).
Dublin are no world beaters but Armagh are hopeless. No real quality players of note apart from from McDonnell and the absent Clarke. Jamie Clarke is overhyped as Vernon was a year ago and was completely outmuscled yesterday. Reminded me of McComiskey's first year. Armagh are one-dimensional and until they rid themselves completely of the Kernan/Grimley type of player and tactics they're going nowhere fast. Dublin actually seemed more physical than Armagh but much more mobile and less obsessed with negating the opposition as an initial tactic as Armagh are.
However, Paddy O'Rourke now has the chance to unfurl a new era for Armagh football. They're in Division One next year and outside or 1-2 teams, there are no big shakes in that division. If he can usher in a few big changes in terms of personnel and approach then you never know. For me, McKeever as captain typifies all that's wrong with Armagh's approach even though some reckon he's had a good year.
1. Ciaran isn't the captain
2. He plays where he's instructed to play by the management and he has played well there. Its a reasonable arguement to suggest that dropping a man back in front of the full back line is a negative and unconstructive tactic but once a player is instructed to play that role by his manager there's very little he can do.
Also Jamie Clarke has played well in every championship match he's ever competed in for Armagh. He has looked a constant scoring threat, even when effectively double marked. The faults in the side lie not with him but with the failure to provide himself and McDonnell with quality possession.
Quote from: The Konica on July 18, 2010, 09:20:02 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 17, 2010, 09:38:36 PM
There'll probably be a bit of hyperbole about wholesale changes in personnel heading into next year, but that's not the problem. It's that horrible style of football that's holding us back. We won't win anything playing like that, regardless of who's in the jerseys. There's too much intricate hand passing and too much carrying into contact. We're like a rugby team, trying to offload the ball in the tackle. Every attack is slow and predictable. The reason the half forwards are so ineffective is because they're continuously drawn backwards to receive shit little five yard hand passes from the defenders coming out.
Quote from: loughshore lad on July 17, 2010, 08:26:14 PM
Couldn't believe how many times Armagh both carried the ball into, and lost the ball in, the tackle. Not a great advertisement for McGurn's capabilities as a strength and conditioning coach.
Armagh look like a team who don't play much football in training. There is no fluency to their play at all, their play is so laboured and slow.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 17, 2010, 08:37:56 PM
Ah yes its the dublins fans fault that Armagh have few players who can kick the ball accurately with one foot. Actually how many armagh players can even handpass properly? Unreal the amount of turnovers dublin got on basic handpassing errors. Armagh were physically bossed today. You'd wonder what Mc Gurn is doing with them.
Quote from: lawnseed on July 17, 2010, 10:03:39 PM
exactly AFS. hooray for the minors. but it should be pointed out that some of the lads playing today are off probably the best u21 team of the decade, who apart from one game in their campaign won easily and convincingly. what have we done to them? theyre slow, ponderous, ethergys of the players they once were. since u21 level one poor manager after another, two rugby coaches, weights and more weights, all trying to emulate the 2002 team who were already battle hardened for 4 years when they won. armagh football is in a really crappy place right now, forget about losen the match we've managed to get rid of 20000 football fanatics who fought over tickets...
Quote from: armaghniac on July 17, 2010, 10:30:43 PM
When Armagh had the ball there weren't the runs to provide an outlet for the pass, so the man tended to carry the ball. Like my avatar you need players there to take the pass and so often there is nobody there. I am a bit disappointed with McGurns contribution, we are as ponderous as we were last year. There is none of the zip that characterises the likes of Tyrone who are capable of breaking at speed, even the likes of Aaron seems to have slowed down.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 17, 2010, 11:26:56 PM
McGurn has cost a fortune and the Armagh players have regressed in terms of fitness. Few were fast enough to track back. A Kernan and M Mackin were so slow it was embarassing. Few could hold the ball in the tackle, spilling the ball all over the field.
Tactically Armagh are lost. handpassing is fine if it works and allows fast and accurate interchange with the time moving forward. Armagh handpasses are being intercepted almost half of the time because they miss the target, they are loopy and too slow.
Quote from: lawnseed on July 18, 2010, 01:00:31 AM
o'rourke must go. mc alinden is the man! and get rid of these rugby gym bunnies, our lads are like oil tankers its taking the whole pitch to get them turned
Some great comments over the past few pages - just wanted to summarize them ...
- Poor emphasis and ability to kick pass across the team
- Excessive carrying the ball into the tackle
- Too much handpassing and not moving the ball fast enough
- No physical strength
- No speed, explosiveness or fluency to the teams play
- Still following the 2002 model - which is now out of date
- Hearty despite the criticism earlier before the championship started has been one of the best this year and solid
- Andy Mallon is struggling to regain form and lacking physicality
- McKeever has had a very good year - but as a free man.
- Good competition for places between Duffy, Moriarty, Dyas, McKenna and Comiskey, McKenna.
- Aaron Kernan is very slow and ponderous on the ball and is not playing in the best position.
- Vernon has had a poor season, struggles in the air at Midfield and carries the ball into contact too much. - Mackin has struggled this year.
- Mallon tries hard and gave a decent account of himself this year.
- McDonnell tried very hard this year but is under severe pressure struggling to carry the full forward line
- Full Forward line is struggling without a Clarke or other quality support player to spread the threat.
- Minor players need to begin to be introduced
- Overall, a small improvement from last year and possibly going in the right direction.
Is that a fair synopsis?
A fair synopsis, yes.
Hand passing - agree - interestingly, during the warm-up there was more time spent on hand passing than on kicking.
Vernon - without a doubt our most over-hyped player. I lost count of how many times he lost possession yesterday, including when Armagh were 6 - 2 up and his wayward pass resulted in a point after which Dublin forged on.
I'm not sure if we are moving in the right direction; at times yesterday it looked a bit like the Wexford game of two years ago including being caught by the short kick-outs.
both dublin and armagh were poor yesterday but dublin now get the chance to improve and no doubt they will. these games are all about surviving as kerry showed last year. if armagh had scored those two 45s yesterday it could have been a different story.
It's hard to know where to start..............the midfield & HF problem was an issue again with our passengers there for all to see. Vernon had a shocker along with AK. Toner was obviously unfit. I've never seen an Armagh team turned over in the tackle so much. In fairness Dublin tackled with great power and in the main with good discipline. We didn't handle Bernard Brogan as well as I thought we would but he's a real talent. Brendan Donaghy didn't go as well as he has been with Andy Mallon struggling again. Without Ciaran McKeever we would have been beaten more comprehensively but this sweeper system has to stop. He should've been up on Alan Brogan and gave him something to think about going backwards.
I think that the younger players have to be given a go last year as lads like Mal Mackin, Joe Feeney, Tony Kernan have been given their chances and unfortunately will never come up to the mark.
The management must learn from their mistakes both in terms of selection and also tactics. McGurn has to throw the fecking tackle bags away (a constant presence in pre game routines) and inject greater pace into the team. The real bright light of last year's minor win was the forwards and yes they probably are too young yet but are the players mentioned above good enough to keep them out of the team for another 2/3 years.
Best of luck to the Dubs who I reckon will beat Louth/Roscommon/Limerick but wouldn't want the losers of the Ulster final. Wouldn't get overly annoyed about the booing for the frees but cheering wides really gets my goat.
I think that we have moved on a little from last year, poor and all as we were yesterday it was better than the Monaghan game last year. Nobody can use the Ulster title in 08 as a pointer to no further progress made under this management as beating Cavan, Down and Fermanagh was no achievement at all.
Thought Dublin were extremely defensive and if they ever have a day when Brogan is poor could really get destroyed. Too many Armagh players had bad days. Would disagree that they played there previous defensive game. Dublin brought a man back which left McKeever free. He played his position and on many occasions carried the fight to Dublin. Our problem was we had no midfield at all due to injuries, poor form and absentees. Half forwrd line was poor with only Nippy having any real fight.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 18, 2010, 10:48:52 AM
Nolan did not have a great game. Average. And Cullen was one of the reasons we won. His tracking and covering at wing forward was absolutely brilliant. Its taken the management the guts of 2 years to make a decision to play him at WF. that was a question that and Dublin fan could haveanswered during the commercial break for Coronation Street.
The full back line only had to mark two men!! Course they looked great.
I thought Mc Auley was great. Love the way he physically imposes himself. Great bit of stuff.
I thought I remember you being on record as saying Cullen should be centre back?
But I totally agree he's a wing forward, and should be one of the first names on the teamsheet as he's way ahead of Flynn and Corkery. He worked really hard, forced a couple of turnovers, but only Fitzsimons for Dublin had less touches of the ball (for lads who played all/most of the game.) Maybe I'm being too harsh (probably am) or expecting too much but I believe there's more to come from Bryan. He's a good passer and a very good man to take a score, and he didnt get the opportunity to show that side of his game.
Not sure what your problem is with Nolan. Hoovered up lots of breaking ball, used it really well and also got some good tackles in. Missed a chance for a score alright but still IMO was probably our best half back on the day. Well done to him.
Quote from: Hound on July 18, 2010, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 18, 2010, 10:48:52 AM
Nolan did not have a great game. Average. And Cullen was one of the reasons we won. His tracking and covering at wing forward was absolutely brilliant. Its taken the management the guts of 2 years to make a decision to play him at WF. that was a question that and Dublin fan could haveanswered during the commercial break for Coronation Street.
The full back line only had to mark two men!! Course they looked great.
I thought Mc Auley was great. Love the way he physically imposes himself. Great bit of stuff.
I thought I remember you being on record as saying Cullen should be centre back?
But I totally agree he's a wing forward, and should be one of the first names on the teamsheet as he's way ahead of Flynn and Corkery. He worked really hard, forced a couple of turnovers, but only Fitzsimons for Dublin had less touches of the ball (for lads who played all/most of the game.) Maybe I'm being too harsh (probably am) or expecting too much but I believe there's more to come from Bryan. He's a good passer and a very good man to take a score, and he didnt get the opportunity to show that side of his game.
Not sure what your problem is with Nolan. Hoovered up lots of breaking ball, used it really well and also got some good tackles in. Missed a chance for a score alright but still IMO was probably our best half back on the day. Well done to him.
Henry is a better wing back then Nolan. Simple as Hound IMO. Nothing against him at all. Simple selection in my view. I've never got the hype about Nolan.
Quote from: Hound on July 18, 2010, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 18, 2010, 10:48:52 AM
Nolan did not have a great game. Average. And Cullen was one of the reasons we won. His tracking and covering at wing forward was absolutely brilliant. Its taken the management the guts of 2 years to make a decision to play him at WF. that was a question that and Dublin fan could haveanswered during the commercial break for Coronation Street.
The full back line only had to mark two men!! Course they looked great.
I thought Mc Auley was great. Love the way he physically imposes himself. Great bit of stuff.
I thought I remember you being on record as saying Cullen should be centre back?
But I totally agree he's a wing forward, and should be one of the first names on the teamsheet as he's way ahead of Flynn and Corkery. He worked really hard, forced a couple of turnovers, but only Fitzsimons for Dublin had less touches of the ball (for lads who played all/most of the game.) Maybe I'm being too harsh (probably am) or expecting too much but I believe there's more to come from Bryan. He's a good passer and a very good man to take a score, and he didnt get the opportunity to show that side of his game.
Not sure what your problem is with Nolan. Hoovered up lots of breaking ball, used it really well and also got some good tackles in. Missed a chance for a score alright but still IMO was probably our best half back on the day. Well done to him.
I've often felt that's been part of his problem - trying to do too much at times for the team. Nice to see him finding his feet again.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 18, 2010, 03:25:39 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 18, 2010, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 18, 2010, 10:48:52 AM
Nolan did not have a great game. Average. And Cullen was one of the reasons we won. His tracking and covering at wing forward was absolutely brilliant. Its taken the management the guts of 2 years to make a decision to play him at WF. that was a question that and Dublin fan could haveanswered during the commercial break for Coronation Street.
The full back line only had to mark two men!! Course they looked great.
I thought Mc Auley was great. Love the way he physically imposes himself. Great bit of stuff.
I thought I remember you being on record as saying Cullen should be centre back?
But I totally agree he's a wing forward, and should be one of the first names on the teamsheet as he's way ahead of Flynn and Corkery. He worked really hard, forced a couple of turnovers, but only Fitzsimons for Dublin had less touches of the ball (for lads who played all/most of the game.) Maybe I'm being too harsh (probably am) or expecting too much but I believe there's more to come from Bryan. He's a good passer and a very good man to take a score, and he didnt get the opportunity to show that side of his game.
Not sure what your problem is with Nolan. Hoovered up lots of breaking ball, used it really well and also got some good tackles in. Missed a chance for a score alright but still IMO was probably our best half back on the day. Well done to him.
I've never got the hype about Nolan.
Superb minor as I'm sure you know Indy - injuries over the last couple of years seem to have taken their toll - I hope he can fulfill his undoubted potential but I have my doubts.
If we get anyone other than Monaghan, the balance of the team up front will have to change the next day as I'd expect to see B Brogan doubled up the next day and there aren't enough other score takers up front
Quote from: heffo on July 18, 2010, 04:12:42 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 18, 2010, 03:25:39 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 18, 2010, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 18, 2010, 10:48:52 AM
Nolan did not have a great game. Average. And Cullen was one of the reasons we won. His tracking and covering at wing forward was absolutely brilliant. Its taken the management the guts of 2 years to make a decision to play him at WF. that was a question that and Dublin fan could haveanswered during the commercial break for Coronation Street.
The full back line only had to mark two men!! Course they looked great.
I thought Mc Auley was great. Love the way he physically imposes himself. Great bit of stuff.
I thought I remember you being on record as saying Cullen should be centre back?
But I totally agree he's a wing forward, and should be one of the first names on the teamsheet as he's way ahead of Flynn and Corkery. He worked really hard, forced a couple of turnovers, but only Fitzsimons for Dublin had less touches of the ball (for lads who played all/most of the game.) Maybe I'm being too harsh (probably am) or expecting too much but I believe there's more to come from Bryan. He's a good passer and a very good man to take a score, and he didnt get the opportunity to show that side of his game.
Not sure what your problem is with Nolan. Hoovered up lots of breaking ball, used it really well and also got some good tackles in. Missed a chance for a score alright but still IMO was probably our best half back on the day. Well done to him.
I've never got the hype about Nolan.
Superb minor as I'm sure you know Indy - injuries over the last couple of years seem to have taken their toll - I hope he can fulfill his undoubted potential but I have my doubts.
If we get anyone other than Monaghan, the balance of the team up front will have to change the next day as I'd expect to see B Brogan doubled up the next day and there aren't enough other score takers up front
Dont know if Monaghan can recover from that today tbh. Would expect Dublin to beat them easily.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on July 18, 2010, 04:16:19 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 18, 2010, 04:12:42 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 18, 2010, 03:25:39 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 18, 2010, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 18, 2010, 10:48:52 AM
Nolan did not have a great game. Average. And Cullen was one of the reasons we won. His tracking and covering at wing forward was absolutely brilliant. Its taken the management the guts of 2 years to make a decision to play him at WF. that was a question that and Dublin fan could haveanswered during the commercial break for Coronation Street.
The full back line only had to mark two men!! Course they looked great.
I thought Mc Auley was great. Love the way he physically imposes himself. Great bit of stuff.
I thought I remember you being on record as saying Cullen should be centre back?
But I totally agree he's a wing forward, and should be one of the first names on the teamsheet as he's way ahead of Flynn and Corkery. He worked really hard, forced a couple of turnovers, but only Fitzsimons for Dublin had less touches of the ball (for lads who played all/most of the game.) Maybe I'm being too harsh (probably am) or expecting too much but I believe there's more to come from Bryan. He's a good passer and a very good man to take a score, and he didnt get the opportunity to show that side of his game.
Not sure what your problem is with Nolan. Hoovered up lots of breaking ball, used it really well and also got some good tackles in. Missed a chance for a score alright but still IMO was probably our best half back on the day. Well done to him.
I've never got the hype about Nolan.
Superb minor as I'm sure you know Indy - injuries over the last couple of years seem to have taken their toll - I hope he can fulfill his undoubted potential but I have my doubts.
If we get anyone other than Monaghan, the balance of the team up front will have to change the next day as I'd expect to see B Brogan doubled up the next day and there aren't enough other score takers up front
Dont know if Monaghan can recover from that today tbh. Would expect Dublin to beat them easily.
I meant if Dublin draw Monaghan this evening, I'd expect them to line up in broadly the same way they did v Armagh
I'd like a different balance if they were to draw a more attacking team
Quote from: Hound on July 18, 2010, 12:28:02 AM
Well as me auntie said afterwards "Isnt it unbelievable that Armagh were worse". I think that sums it up.
Still, I'm delighted with the win.
Cluxton's kickouts were generally fantastic - what a player, definite All Star this year ;D
The full back line are young and green, and will get hammered from time to time. But I'm very happy that Gilroy is sticking with them, and I thought they did well today - particularly Philly.
I know one or two might have been advocating throwing Kevin Nolan to the scrapheap after he disappointed v Tipp, but again Gilroy was rewarded for showing some faith in a young lad. Super performance from Kev.
Midfield was generally awful. McConnell and Fennell caught no contested high ball. McAuley was very good in parts, but didnt win enough primary possession for me. However, he caught two super high balls in the last few minutes, which were instrumental in our win. I don't particularly rate Big Darren, but he's better than McConnell and Fennell, so time to bring him back.
I love Cullen, but thought he was very mediocre today. He never got into the game, contributed nothing, and was lucky to last as long as he did.
Corkery and O'Gara were disappointing IMO.
Al had a very good first half and was instrumental in bringing us back from 6-2 down to level. Not so hot in the 2nd half and I wish he wouldnt take on shots from ridiculous angles.
Bernard was sensational. Our best fielder today among other things.. I'd nearly play him midfield, only we'd have nobody to kick scores!
McManamon and Andrews were very medicore today, and did nothing to justify the calls from supporters for their inclusion. Conal Keaney is far better than either IMO. EDIT - Both were actually much better than I thought in replay, so I got that completely wrong! Tho I'd still prefer CK.
Flynn did reasonably well, and kicked a great point. The kick up the butt from Gilroy might have done the trick. If he could get rid of the hint of laziness, he could be a proper footballer, because he has all the ability.
Roll on Round 4!! 8)
fecking hell hound - Andrews was on all of 6 minutes !
I also dont rate nolan (yet at least).
Cullen def best at whf - I'd have flynn on the other wing.
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 18, 2010, 01:09:57 AM
Quote from: Hound on July 18, 2010, 12:28:02 AM
Well as me auntie said afterwards "Isnt it unbelievable that Armagh were worse". I think that sums it up.
Still, I'm delighted with the win.
Cluxton's kickouts were generally fantastic - what a player, definite All Star this year ;D
The full back line are young and green, and will get hammered from time to time. But I'm very happy that Gilroy is sticking with them, and I thought they did well today - particularly Philly.
I know Indiana was advocating throwing Kevin Nolan to the scrapheap after he disappointed v Tipp, but again Gilroy was rewarded for showing some faith in a young lad. Super performance from Kev.
Midfield was generally awful. McConnell and Fennell caught no contested high ball. McAuley was very good in parts, but didnt win enough primary possession for me. However, he caught two super high balls in the last few minutes, which were instrumental in our win. I don't particularly rate Big Darren, but he's better than McConnell and Fennell, so time to bring him back.
I love Cullen, but thought he was very mediocre today. He never got into the game, contributed nothing, and was lucky to last as long as he did.
Corkery and O'Gara were shambolic. Neither should have lasted more than 15 minutes. Two mullockers with feck all ability. They might remind Pat of himself, but I dont want to see either again.
Al had a very good first half and was instrumental in bringing us back from 6-2 down to level. Not so hot in the 2nd half and I wish he wouldnt take on shots from ridiculous angles.
Bernard was sensational. Our best fielder today among other things.. I'd nearly play him midfield, only we'd have nobody to kick scores!
McManamon and Andrews were very medicore today, and did nothing to justify the calls from supporters for their inclusion. Conal Keaney is far better than either IMO.
Flynn did reasonably well, and kicked a great point. The kick up the butt from Gilroy might have done the trick. If he could get rid of the hint of laziness, he could be a proper footballer, because he has all the ability.
Roll on Round 4!! 8)
Jaysus I thought Cullen was as good as I've seen him these last couple of years..Stuck in everything resulting in a lot of fumbles,
Bernard Brogan is def as good as there is in the country, Armagh threw their finest at him and could do nothing at all with him
even McKeever sweeping couldn't get her done.
O'Gara was a bit of a joke alright...whoever said earlier about him running around like he thinks he's better than he is hit the nail on the head!
Armagh are carrying a fair few passengers in fairness and Paddy O might just be one of them... What was behind bringing on Hanratty
at the end ??? could someone enlighten me as to what it is I'm missing about that lad :-\
How often have you seen him.?
there is not a chance mc gurn will be going anywhere. hes talks the talk about training mathodolgy but end of day knows nothing about gaelic so how is that man qualified to be training the team. get a football coach in. for all the talk about his unique power and speed training 3 things
1)lastrugby world cup - irelands fitness pathetic
2)bernard dunne - powder puff
3)armagh - overtrained - peaked in league fitness wise/no sharpness
And it a fact they were running up hills in nov. wat was that about. pure craziness for someone apparently in the know
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 18, 2010, 05:21:00 PM
fecking hell hound - Andrews was on all of 6 minutes !
Indeed. He had one decent chance for a point, and made a poor effort, leaving it short. But on replay I noticed that even in the limited time available he did a couple of other positive things, chasing back and getting a good tackle in, and carried the ball well and drew a free.
That's the Orangemen over for another year then:
http://bbc.co.uk/i/t2czm/
Armagh were only beat by 3 points at the weekend, which would maybe suggest that although they are poor Dublin are not far ahead of them. Armagh generally seemed to lack the footballers, none of their players apart from Stevie McDonnell seem like they have the confidence or the actual ability to strike a ball accurately over the bar from anywhere inside 40 metres, which was particularly evident towards the end when an Armagh man had the ball maybe 30 yards from goal and instead of shooting he handpassed to a team mate, who did the same and the third fella also did this too. These 3 short handpasses were unnecessary and on any decent team it would have been stroked over the bar first time.
There seems to be a few cumbersome and slow players in the Armagh team that actually have little ability to be honest, with the wing forward Swift being one of the most limited players I have seen in a long time in an Armagh jersey - what exactly is he there to offer? He has no speed, kicking ability or creativity, and seems to lack mobility as well. Brian Mallon does not look like a player up to inter-county football either. What happened to the fella McKenna from Crossmaglen who played Midfield for them during their last All Ireland success? He seemed to be a great player in the making, one in the Sean Cavanagh mould with his surging runs from the middle. As a lot of posters have said already, Armagh need to ditch the type of footballer that is far too frequent in their side at the minute (the Swifts, Mackins and Laverys etc), and bring in natural footballers who have a bit of pace and sharpness.
what are you drinking??? Swift I thought was one of the better performers on saturday, indeed he has probably been in the top 3 performers for us all season you clown. That said saturdays performance was very disappointing. Armagh were dreadful and should have been beaten by a lot more. For young lads, the lack of pace and pedestrian movement of the ball was unbelievable. They were so labored, and with stevie well marshalled we had no options. I have been very disappointed in armaghs last 3 performances we have reverted fromt he exciting football played int he league final to the negative conservative blanket defense, to play that type pof game you need fellas who can run
1. Why were armagh players so easily dispossessed
2. Why did they keep running the ball into contact
3. why was the finishing so poor
4. Why did they not look fit
5. How did vincie martin stay on the field, he was appaliing
Its time to blood teh like of tasker, mc kenna next year... this can't go on
The only person who came out of yesterdays game with any credit was hearty
The Dubs done what they had to do. Progression at this stage is the important factor not the manor. Would fancy them to progress against Louth. It will be difficult for Louth to raise it again.
As for Armagh, the glory days of Ulster finals and later stages of the All Ireland series are finished for a while anyway. Mindboggling how far such a team have gone back. The gameplan isnt there and although some scored other than Mc Donnell they were more as a result of circumstance. They looked lethargic and laboured.
One moment summed it up for me in the first half. Morriarty got the ball on the sideline and the corner back busted a gut to provide the inside support. Instead of playing the ball into the space to the supporting man he stops, slows the play down, turns inside and plays a ball backwards.
With the Armagh minors taking a whipping in the Ulster minor final too it was a bad week all around for Armagh
slightly off topic, but relevant to an earlier discussion re. Armagh's HF line. People were mentioning that not many counties nowadays have scoring lines outside the FF line - which I disagree with. The top 3 teams in the country have players scoring from HB, MF and HF. Tyrone, Kerry and Cork are blessed with great players but I feel its the attitude of their respective managers that yields the scores and therefore - the results. Yesterday Tyrones FF line registered just 3 points - 2 from frees. The rest of the team contributed 1-11 with all but 1 point coming from play.
This is the NEW blueprint for gaelic football IMO and until the likes of ourselves and Dublin develop a scoring threat from outside the FF line neither will be dining at the top table for a long while yet. If B Brogan has a bad day the Dubs are screwed - just like we were on Saturday when Stevie's radar was on the blink.
More footballers please, less spoilers.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 19, 2010, 09:47:51 AM
what are you drinking??? Swift I thought was one of the better performers on saturday, indeed he has probably been in the top 3 performers for us all season you clown. That said saturdays performance was very disappointing. Armagh were dreadful and should have been beaten by a lot more. For young lads, the lack of pace and pedestrian movement of the ball was unbelievable. They were so labored, and with stevie well marshalled we had no options. I have been very disappointed in armaghs last 3 performances we have reverted fromt he exciting football played int he league final to the negative conservative blanket defense, to play that type pof game you need fellas who can run
1. Why were armagh players so easily dispossessed
2. Why did they keep running the ball into contact
3. why was the finishing so poor
4. Why did they not look fit
5. How did vincie martin stay on the field, he was appaliing
Its time to blood teh like of tasker, mc kenna next year... this can't go on
The only person who came out of yesterdays game with any credit was hearty
Firstly well done Dublin
I thought McKeever had a good game too in fairness. Nippy did ok and has a future on the team. I said it before and i will say it again, play some guys that play as half forwards for their clubs. Its f**king obvious to me so why not to Armagh management.
You have to wonder sometimes what people want from a team? Armagh beaten by Dublin in Croke Park by 3 would have been acceptable 3 months ago and I think that the season as a whole needs to be accessed rather than just a single match.
Hearty re established himself as reliable keeper, consistent kicking and more assured, defence as a whole ok with duffy and mc keever playing reasonably well and donaghy growing each year, Mallon had an iffy year but form is temporary as the saying goes. Finn mo is a good player but hasn't been great, martin I'm not sure if he is talented enough. Certainly would have Shannon or Paul mc keown in front of him. Dyas still a bit green and should have had a full year at club football before stepping up.
MF is a worry. Toner and Lavery never established themselves through injury. I also don't think they compliment each other. Toner is the pick of the two ability wise but would need a different type of player beside him. Maybe if Titch mc Kenna gets back to himself he could be that player.
In the forwards is where the real problem is. There is too little fluidity. As many have said there is too much needless handpassing and too much taking the ball into contact. Very rugby league style. Mackin is not the required standard, vernon needs a lot of coaching, I never agreed with AK in the forward line as he is better attacking from deep. Swift has been a positive as has jamie. Forwards need to score though and there isnot enough from the forward line. I still think the like of franny and feeney have a part to play but there needs to be a more direct style of football. Ronan Clarke has to come back and that will provide a greater focal point in the attack.
A few personnel changes, a few positional changes and there could be a strong team. With the like of tasker, mc verry, grugan coming through and it is not all doom and gloom.
I reckon that this team will develop next year in Div 1 and what should happen is that the younger lads need to be given their head. Also certain more established players like Mallon and vernon need to step up.
Hearty
mallon. Donaghy. Mckeown
AK. Mckeever. Duffy/moriarty
toner. Mc kenna
vernon. B mallon. Swift
stevie. R Clarke. J Clarke
Time to look forward to next year.
1 - hearty or mcevoy
2 - a mallon
3 - b donaghy
4 - p mckeown
5 - p duffy
6 - c mckeever
7 - k dyas
8 - j lavery
9 - k toner
10 - a murnin
11 - r clarke
12 - g swift
13 - j clarke
14 - s mcdonnell
15 - s forker
I watched this game as a neutral and I could not believe what I was watching. It was hard to believe how poor the two teams were.
Armagh had no ideas and in particular no HF line. Dublin played a man in front of the FB line and all Armagh could do was lump high ball in there. Jamie Clarke must be 5'7'' or 5'8'' - there was no sense to it. The ball was continually carried into tackles because there was no movement - none. Stevie and Jamie were double teamed. I would have little confidence in a manager sending out a team playing like this to be honest.
The thing is Armagh have some strong individuals. How collectively they are so bad is beyond me. I thought Swift did ok in HF but I'd guess he's not a natural half forrward. Kernan should be in half back.
Dublin were not much better and their only saving grace was Bernard Brogan. There has to be better footballers in Dublin than some of those boys on that pitch. Keaney, Barry Cahill and Griffin should be on that team. Some of the players on are very mediocre.
The biggest thing that struck me in that match, and a few I have watched this year, is that a lot of managers seem to struggle to play against the sweeper system. Stevie and Jamie Clarke were effectively being double teamed. Why could they not go conventional 3 mand FF line to negate the spare man? Dublin's spare defender scored more than the forward he was supposed to be marking which said a lot. Had they negated that spare man Clarke and McDonnell could have made hay.
BC there may have been 3 points in it against a Dublin team but make no mistake about it - this is a bad bad Dublin team. I'd be surprised if there has ever been a worse Dublin team. If they have any say in where Sam goes I'll be very surprised.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 19, 2010, 11:02:34 AM
Jamie Clarke must be 5'7'' or 5'8''
He won't be a kick in the arse off six foot in fairness. Like Colm Cooper, because he's a bit wiry people tend to underestimate his height.
Oh - doesn't look it.
Most of what he got kicked in was aimless high ball and he had to scrap for it.
Have the dark days returned already ? The vibe i got was one akin to the mid 90's when you went to watch Armagh more for the day out, with little or no expectation of victory. It was depressing and now that the dust has settled, it still is depressing.
Many of you here have pointed out the problems.
1/Our style of play
2/several players short in terms of quality
3/the management - and this is not a knee jerk reaction - i don't think they have a clue what they're doing
4/ We lack leaders - many of you don't seem to understand this but the evidence speaks for itself. players fist passing backwards and then breathing a sigh of relief says it all really
It's time to blood the young talent. i know it's risky throwing young lads fresh out of minors in at the deep end but needs must i'm afraid.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 19, 2010, 11:02:34 AM
I watched this game as a neutral and I could not believe what I was watching. It was hard to believe how poor the two teams were.
Dublin were not much better and their only saving grace was Bernard Brogan. There has to be better footballers in Dublin than some of those boys on that pitch. Keaney, Barry Cahill and Griffin should be on that team. Some of the players on are very mediocre.
But bear in mind the quality of the rest of the country. There is going to be at least one relatively poor team in the semis! And even the 3 good teams don't play well all the time.
Griffin is a long term injury casualty, if fit he would have been playing and would have been captain. Barry Cahill was playing (17) - he hasn't reached the heights of previous seasons, although he improved on his earlier performances.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 19, 2010, 11:02:34 AM
I watched this game as a neutral and I could not believe what I was watching. It was hard to believe how poor the two teams were.
Armagh had no ideas and in particular no HF line. Dublin played a man in front of the FB line and all Armagh could do was lump high ball in there. Jamie Clarke must be 5'7'' or 5'8'' - there was no sense to it. The ball was continually carried into tackles because there was no movement - none. Stevie and Jamie were double teamed. I would have little confidence in a manager sending out a team playing like this to be honest.
The thing is Armagh have some strong individuals. How collectively they are so bad is beyond me. I thought Swift did ok in HF but I'd guess he's not a natural half forrward. Kernan should be in half back.
Dublin were not much better and their only saving grace was Bernard Brogan. There has to be better footballers in Dublin than some of those boys on that pitch. Keaney, Barry Cahill and Griffin should be on that team. Some of the players on are very mediocre.
The biggest thing that struck me in that match, and a few I have watched this year, is that a lot of managers seem to struggle to play against the sweeper system. Stevie and Jamie Clarke were effectively being double teamed. Why could they not go conventional 3 mand FF line to negate the spare man? Dublin's spare defender scored more than the forward he was supposed to be marking which said a lot. Had they negated that spare man Clarke and McDonnell could have made hay.
BC there may have been 3 points in it against a Dublin team but make no mistake about it - this is a bad bad Dublin team. I'd be surprised if there has ever been a worse Dublin team. If they have any say in where Sam goes I'll be very surprised.
Armagh played a spare man at the back as well which was why they had the 2 man full forward line and can you imagine what Brogan would have done without the spare man being back in front of him???
Barry Cahilll started, Griffen is out with a knee cruciate injury for the year and Keaney I believe had a knock
Armagh played a spare man at the back as well which was why they had the 2 man full forward line and
can you imagine what Brogan would have done without the spare man being back in front of him???Barry Cahilll started, Griffen is out with a knee cruciate injury for the year and Keaney I believe had a knock
[/quote]
That's a fair point, the number of times that McKeever saved other defenders was untrue, on Saturday there may have been some justification for a sweeper but we have been doing it most of the year. There's no need to be using sweepers against teams like Fermanagh for example, who have no stand out forward. Brendan Donaghy should have been on Bernard Brogan from start to finish IMO.
Quote from: ardchieftain on July 19, 2010, 01:41:33 PM
We lack leaders - many of you don't seem to understand this but the evidence speaks for itself. players fist passing backwards and then breathing a sigh of relief says it all really
It's time to blood the young talent. i know it's risky throwing young lads fresh out of minors in at the deep end but needs must i'm afraid.
I really don't buy into this theory, what more did you want the like of Ciaran McKeever and Steven McDonnell to do? They can't disguise glaring problems in our MF and HF line.
Next year's league is vital to this team's progression. If we can get Ronan Clarke fit and blood a couple of forwards out of Tasker/Grugan/McVerry and McParland and stay up in Division 1 then we will be in a much better place. The policy of not playing the u21s in league football until they exit the championship will have to be sidelined.
A freetaker has to be found also as Stevie's percentages from 30 yards+ isn't good enough, I've a feeling that Stevie is only doing it until somebody better comes along and will be glad to see this coming. Tony Kernan is an excellent freetaker but doesn't give enough to us from play, for me Stefan Forker has to be brought in from the cold and given his chance at the freetaking.
The most disappointing aspect of the last couple of weeks is the fact that we retreated into our old negative style of play after threatening to throw the shackles off earlier in the year.
I would contend that McKeever only partly played a sweeper role. Dublin brought a forward back to cover Stevie and Jamie and McKeever played his position which created an extra man at the back. I would have preferred to see him mark Brogan and let Mallon ( or less so Donaghy) play the centre roll. McKeever would have been strong enough for Brogan and Mallons pace may have given some bite to the forward runs.
Mackers I would definitely agree with your assertion about the U21s. Admirable as it may be it will hold us back even more.
Young Stefan Campbell got a short taste of isenior inter county football and he enjoyed it, if that lad is pursued and kept for next year at FF with McDonnell and JC each side of him it will be interesting. His free taking is very good and can only imagine will get better, the problem here is where will Ronan Clarke fit in as he would be an automatic choice for FF although i suppose either him or SMcD could play CF which would give us an attacking HF for once although going by recent management this will not be allowed. Like how dare we play with an attacking HF (sarcasm)
Quote from: regal on July 19, 2010, 10:54:35 AM
Time to look forward to next year.
1 - hearty or mcevoy
2 - a mallon
3 - b donaghy
4 - p mckeown
5 - p duffy
6 - c mckeever
7 - k dyas
8 - j lavery
9 - k toner
10 - a murnin
11 - r clarke
12 - g swift
13 - j clarke
14 - s mcdonnell
15 - s forker
What about the U21's are there any more that could come through?
QuoteThe thing is Armagh have some strong individuals. How collectively they are so bad is beyond me.
A comment (from a neutral) I would agree with. We have gone from a team which was more than the sum of its individuals (as any really successful team has to be) to one that is arguably less than sum of its individuals. OK we don't have the countries best playersin every position, but you work with what you have. Looking at Roscommon yesterday, a team we beat by 24 points not so long ago, they had one outstanding player Shine, but the whole team worked hard and showed a sense of urgency that was completely lacking in the Armagh performances.
Stevie definitely wont be coming back in 2011. Wont be made official until later in the year but he has definitely thrown the towel in. Hell of a player.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 19, 2010, 08:04:24 PM
I don't think our footballers are much behind those in many county teams which are doing much better. This has been the case since 2006. The decline has been partly due to the loss of major players who cannot be instantly replaced and have yet to be fully replaced.
However, the major part of the decline has been due to the management of the team. JK, PMcD and POR have not essentially changed the playing style/method while they no longer have the team from 99 to 05 which had the ability and strength to play to that style. other sides have progressed by evolving the physical and defensive method used by Armagh during their heyday but the Armagh management has not moved in the same way. Defence is always the first priority, if you can reduce the number of scores conceded then chances of winning are increased, if you mantain possession, the opposition cannot attack and you do not attempt a shot on target unless you are within 25m and in front of goal. This has produced a team with a mentality which is epitomised by AK, he goes to his own 30-40 m zone, collects the ball and runs out of defence but suddenly stops after crosing the opposition 40 m line and toe taps the ball before hand passing it to some else. The handpasses continue until someone breaks the defensive line which has now been established and attempts to score or more often the ball is turned over and the opposition breaks to score. Armagh are at their best when this doesn't happen, not often enough they are able to easily score when the ball is moved quickly from defence to the inside line and the ball over the bar or in the net.
Current management are just continuing on from PMcD and JK with no idea how to make improvements to to even try to see how the system has evolved with Tyrone. For many of the fifteen on the field for Tyrone at the throw in on Sunday, Armagh have an equivalent in terms of talent and ability but lacking in experience. However, Armagh do not have a system of play like Tyrone in which every player knows what he must do and the role of each of his team mates and a management team who know exactly how the team works and how to make changes which will be game altering/winning. In addition, Tyrone have also assumed the mantle of being unbeatable, unflappable and always playing to the whistle which has a devastating mental affect on their opponents, an advantage held by Armagh until 2006.
Armagh can compete with the best again but we need a management capable of bringing fresh ideas and a system of play, a trainer who can deliver players with the bursts of speed needed to move the ball quickly rather than running into the tackle and a renewed confidence in the system and themselves. POR does not carry all the blame, DM and JMN appear to have the say on the line. i don't know where we go for new management but it is essential.
I think you're miles off the top teams. Miles. Any reasonable team can do well in Tier 2. But armagh will take 5 years at least before they'll worry the top 2/3 teams again.
Indiana I don't see how you put an arbitary figure like 5 years on a resurgence. Surely Armagh are only as far away as the time it will take to get players on the team which will vastly improve the side. My own view is that there's a possibility such players are only 2 or 3 years away (last year's u21s were as good as anybody else in the country in my opinion, the Minors were better than the rest).
Maybe these lads will have ability and character to meet the challenges posed by Senior football, perhaps they won't. But if they do, it may not take them 5 years.
QuoteYep, that's what I thought in 2001 when we met Galway in Croke Park and everything that the two Brian's had worked on seemed to be dissolving away, taking Kerry to a replay in the previous year seemed a distant dream. Yet, a change of approach by new management, real self belief and determination produced success.
Two things about 2002. Firstly, the squad believed in themselves and the new management. Secondly, the new coming was a work in progress right through the season, in the present situation we show some promise in March but seem to regress as time goes on.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 19, 2010, 09:21:08 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 19, 2010, 08:16:16 PM
I think you're miles off the top teams. Miles. Any reasonable team can do well in Tier 2. But armagh will take 5 years at least before they'll worry the top 2/3 teams again.
Yep, that's what I thought in 2001 when we met Galway in Croke Park and everything that the two Brian's had worked on seemed to be dissolving away, taking Kerry to a replay in the previous year seemed a distant dream. Yet, a change of approach by new management, real self belief and determination produced success.
Come off it. That was a team that had been to a few all-ireland semi finals. Had a number of magnificent players. About 3 of your current side might make that 15 at best. Seriously you're miles off it. As I said earlier when that little wizard on your minor team last year is playing senior I'll start to believe you. Armagh suffer form the same syndrome we do. In thinking that physical size always wins.
Anyway how in Gods name did you turn Grimley down? Should have given him anything he wanted.
And Kildare seem to be doing alrite without him as well. The Grimley nonsense needs to be put to bed sharpish. I've stated before I firmly believe he'll take his chance when it suits him, he's shrewd enough to know when to come back - he'll be there in about 3 years when we have blooded our minors/U21's. No matter what outsiders may think, i firmly believe the talent is there, it's about managing it correctly. The style of play is the big problem, we promised a lot during the McKenna Cup and League and reverted to type when hardies came to hardies, that's the disappointing thing. As I stated elsewhere today, there's no way on this earth that thats the type of football that POR wants to play, it was McNulty written all over it. That would suggest to me that POR is perhaps weak as the No1.
O'Rourke deservers another year no matter what, hopefully he'll stamp his style of play on the team next season.
If McNulty and Murtagh was in charge, then I'd have expected there to have been a defender available at all times for a back-pass. But there wasnt and instead we had guys trying to run through tackles, and then being dispossessed.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on July 19, 2010, 05:43:59 PM
Stevie definitely wont be coming back in 2011. Wont be made official until later in the year but he has definitely thrown the towel in. Hell of a player.
http://www.armagh-gaa.com/Orchard-TV/News/AUDIO---Dublin-0-14-Armagh-0-11.aspx
According to Paddy O'Rourke Armagh will get another 4 years out of Stevie McDonnell
Artane Boys doing their drumming bit last Saturday...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tvc4ayEmWw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tvc4ayEmWw)
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 19, 2010, 08:41:06 PM
Indiana I don't see how you put an arbitary figure like 5 years on a resurgence. Surely Armagh are only as far away as the time it will take to get players on the team which will vastly improve the side. My own view is that there's a possibility such players are only 2 or 3 years away (last year's u21s were as good as anybody else in the country in my opinion, the Minors were better than the rest).
Maybe these lads will have ability and character to meet the challenges posed by Senior football, perhaps they won't. But if they do, it may not take them 5 years.
Not being smart or anything but who is there from that u21 side that will / could make the breakthrough. Obviously being away from home the knowledge of u21/minor is limited.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 19, 2010, 08:04:24 PM
I don't think our footballers are much behind those in many county teams which are doing much better. This has been the case since 2006. The decline has been partly due to the loss of major players who cannot be instantly replaced and have yet to be fully replaced.
However, the major part of the decline has been due to the management of the team. JK, PMcD and POR have not essentially changed the playing style/method while they no longer have the team from 99 to 05 which had the ability and strength to play to that style. other sides have progressed by evolving the physical and defensive method used by Armagh during their heyday but the Armagh management has not moved in the same way. Defence is always the first priority, if you can reduce the number of scores conceded then chances of winning are increased, if you mantain possession, the opposition cannot attack and you do not attempt a shot on target unless you are within 25m and in front of goal. This has produced a team with a mentality which is epitomised by AK, he goes to his own 30-40 m zone, collects the ball and runs out of defence but suddenly stops after crosing the opposition 40 m line and toe taps the ball before hand passing it to some else. The handpasses continue until someone breaks the defensive line which has now been established and attempts to score or more often the ball is turned over and the opposition breaks to score. Armagh are at their best when this doesn't happen, not often enough they are able to easily score when the ball is moved quickly from defence to the inside line and the ball over the bar or in the net.
Current management are just continuing on from PMcD and JK with no idea how to make improvements to to even try to see how the system has evolved with Tyrone. For many of the fifteen on the field for Tyrone at the throw in on Sunday, Armagh have an equivalent in terms of talent and ability but lacking in experience. However, Armagh do not have a system of play like Tyrone in which every player knows what he must do and the role of each of his team mates and a management team who know exactly how the team works and how to make changes which will be game altering/winning. In addition, Tyrone have also assumed the mantle of being unbeatable, unflappable and always playing to the whistle which has a devastating mental affect on their opponents, an advantage held by Armagh until 2006.
Armagh can compete with the best again but we need a management capable of bringing fresh ideas and a system of play, a trainer who can deliver players with the bursts of speed needed to move the ball quickly rather than running into the tackle and a renewed confidence in the system and themselves. POR does not carry all the blame, DM and JMN appear to have the say on the line. i don't know where we go for new management but it is essential.
Agree with a lot of what you have said TYP, but the statement in bold would be a bit far fetched IMO. Armagh will need to change how they play, and if they can successfully adapt to a more efficient gameplan then there could be potential, but pace and mobility is a key ingredient in the modern game and Armagh seem to lack these attributes in a few crucial areas of the field, and on top of that there seems to be a shortage of players who can take a score, or even attempt to take a score.
Quote from: PatDaly on July 20, 2010, 12:36:46 AM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on July 19, 2010, 05:43:59 PM
Stevie definitely wont be coming back in 2011. Wont be made official until later in the year but he has definitely thrown the towel in. Hell of a player.
http://www.armagh-gaa.com/Orchard-TV/News/AUDIO---Dublin-0-14-Armagh-0-11.aspx
According to Paddy O'Rourke Armagh will get another 4 years out of Stevie McDonnell
Stevie has confirmed that we
won't be retiring in this morning's Irish News..........good news for a change. He singles out Robbie Tasker for a mention in his interview as well. The lad is pure genius.
Quote
Stevie has confirmed that we won't be retiring in this morning's Irish News..........
You & Stevie an item then?
Quote from: under the bar on July 20, 2010, 09:44:23 AM
Quote
Stevie has confirmed that we won't be retiring in this morning's Irish News..........
You & Stevie an item then?
Sh1t..............we didn't want it to become public so soon........ :-X
Quote from: maddog on July 20, 2010, 08:31:04 AM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 19, 2010, 08:41:06 PM
Indiana I don't see how you put an arbitary figure like 5 years on a resurgence. Surely Armagh are only as far away as the time it will take to get players on the team which will vastly improve the side. My own view is that there's a possibility such players are only 2 or 3 years away (last year's u21s were as good as anybody else in the country in my opinion, the Minors were better than the rest).
Maybe these lads will have ability and character to meet the challenges posed by Senior football, perhaps they won't. But if they do, it may not take them 5 years.
Not being smart or anything but who is there from that u21 side that will / could make the breakthrough. Obviously being away from home the knowledge of u21/minor is limited.
Jamie Clarke, Kieran Toner, Paul McKeown, Stefan Forker, David Comiskey and Mark Shields would've been the the most impressive from that year's team. Obviously some have already come through, hopefully we'll see more of the rest next year. From this year's U21s, Anto Duffy and Franny Hanratty have also progressed to the senior panel. I suppose the point is that, although the 2009 minors harbour most of our hopes, there are at least a good half dozen lads under the age of 22 that deserve a run out as well.
Quote from: AFS on July 20, 2010, 10:06:33 AM
Quote from: maddog on July 20, 2010, 08:31:04 AM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 19, 2010, 08:41:06 PM
Indiana I don't see how you put an arbitary figure like 5 years on a resurgence. Surely Armagh are only as far away as the time it will take to get players on the team which will vastly improve the side. My own view is that there's a possibility such players are only 2 or 3 years away (last year's u21s were as good as anybody else in the country in my opinion, the Minors were better than the rest).
Maybe these lads will have ability and character to meet the challenges posed by Senior football, perhaps they won't. But if they do, it may not take them 5 years.
Not being smart or anything but who is there from that u21 side that will / could make the breakthrough. Obviously being away from home the knowledge of u21/minor is limited.
Jamie Clarke, Kieran Toner, Paul McKeown, Stefan Forker, David Comiskey and Mark Shields would've been the the most impressive from that year's team. Obviously some have already come through, hopefully we'll see more of the rest next year. From this year's U21s, Anto Duffy and Franny Hanratty have also progressed to the senior panel. I suppose the point is that, although the 2009 minors harbour most of our hopes, there are at least a good half dozen lads under the age of 22 that deserve a run out as well.
I was very impressed by the entire half back line, as well as Shields. Comiskey is the lad from Tullysarron who was traveling from Scotland isn't he? There was a young fella from Harps at centre half back as well who impressed me.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 20, 2010, 10:12:49 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 20, 2010, 10:06:33 AM
Quote from: maddog on July 20, 2010, 08:31:04 AM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 19, 2010, 08:41:06 PM
Indiana I don't see how you put an arbitary figure like 5 years on a resurgence. Surely Armagh are only as far away as the time it will take to get players on the team which will vastly improve the side. My own view is that there's a possibility such players are only 2 or 3 years away (last year's u21s were as good as anybody else in the country in my opinion, the Minors were better than the rest).
Maybe these lads will have ability and character to meet the challenges posed by Senior football, perhaps they won't. But if they do, it may not take them 5 years.
Not being smart or anything but who is there from that u21 side that will / could make the breakthrough. Obviously being away from home the knowledge of u21/minor is limited.
Jamie Clarke, Kieran Toner, Paul McKeown, Stefan Forker, David Comiskey and Mark Shields would've been the the most impressive from that year's team. Obviously some have already come through, hopefully we'll see more of the rest next year. From this year's U21s, Anto Duffy and Franny Hanratty have also progressed to the senior panel. I suppose the point is that, although the 2009 minors harbour most of our hopes, there are at least a good half dozen lads under the age of 22 that deserve a run out as well.
I was very impressed by the entire half back line, as well as Shields. Comiskey is the lad from Tullysarron who was travelled from Scotland isn't he? There was a young fella from Harps at centre half back as well who impressed me.
Yea, he's doing dentistry, so he's going to be over there a while which will hinder his progress on the county scene I'd imagine.
At the minute it looks like any progress this team is going to make over the next few years will be really incremental, one step forward, two steps back kind of thing. Get in some fresh blood next year from last year's minors and the u21s and hopefully things will develop but there has to be a reappraisal now by the management of the type of performance required and the template to play to. There is a real lack of urgency and hard work about this team, rather than a lack of pace. Individually a lot of those players are fairly pacy, but they don't play the game as if their lives depend on it. They don't put their bodies on the line and put in the hard yards closing down the opposition and providing support for each other (a la our friends in Tryone). Maybe the players are being restricted because they've been instructed to play a certain way but it pains me to say it, they look a lazy outfit and have done since 2006. The Armagh team of old were probably slower individually but they played the game with a rage and at a higher tempo - men on a mission, they supported each other. We don't have some of the quality of footballer that we had a few years back, especially in the forwards, but there is quality there - most of these players have won provincial or all-Ireland medals at minor or U21 level. That has to count for something and is more than a lot of counties can boast.
do you not mean we'll have to take two steps forward for every one step back? otherwise its the opposite of progress lol.
everything else is spot on. - not too many boys on the 02 team had any underage medals (not worth speaking of anyway), but recent Down teams have shown its no guarantee- we cant forget that either.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 19, 2010, 11:19:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 19, 2010, 10:24:23 PM
And Kildare seem to be doing alrite without him as well. The Grimley nonsense needs to be put to bed sharpish. I've stated before I firmly believe he'll take his chance when it suits him, he's shrewd enough to know when to come back - he'll be there in about 3 years when we have blooded our minors/U21's. No matter what outsiders may think, i firmly believe the talent is there, it's about managing it correctly. The style of play is the big problem, we promised a lot during the McKenna Cup and League and reverted to type when hardies came to hardies, that's the disappointing thing. As I stated elsewhere today, there's no way on this earth that thats the type of football that POR wants to play, it was McNulty written all over it. That would suggest to me that POR is perhaps weak as the No1.
O'Rourke deservers another year no matter what, hopefully he'll stamp his style of play on the team next season.
Exactly my point. McNulty and Murtagh are in charge and not to our advantage. I wouldn't be so much in favour of continuing with POR given his weakness as No1 and his lack of having a clue on his own.
Sorry, I'm struggling to follow your point TYP ...?
I know you don't rate POR, but do you also mean that McNulty and Murtagh shouldn't be there at all also?
Quote from: the goal was on on July 18, 2010, 08:38:26 PM
there is not a chance mc gurn will be going anywhere. hes talks the talk about training mathodolgy but end of day knows nothing about gaelic so how is that man qualified to be training the team. get a football coach in. for all the talk about his unique power and speed training 3 things
1)lastrugby world cup - irelands fitness pathetic
2)bernard dunne - powder puff
3)armagh - overtrained - peaked in league fitness wise/no sharpness
And it a fact they were running up hills in nov. wat was that about. pure craziness for someone apparently in the know
Well that points been raised by a good few by now - but don't you think you're being a tad harsh?
Although I'd be amazed if things stay the same in that whole area next year. They whole thing was a mess, too slow, going looking for contact, peaking for the league, injuries etc.
Then again they might just be stubborn and stick at it next year too!
Quote from: AFS on July 20, 2010, 10:06:33 AM
Quote from: maddog on July 20, 2010, 08:31:04 AM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 19, 2010, 08:41:06 PM
Indiana I don't see how you put an arbitary figure like 5 years on a resurgence. Surely Armagh are only as far away as the time it will take to get players on the team which will vastly improve the side. My own view is that there's a possibility such players are only 2 or 3 years away (last year's u21s were as good as anybody else in the country in my opinion, the Minors were better than the rest).
Maybe these lads will have ability and character to meet the challenges posed by Senior football, perhaps they won't. But if they do, it may not take them 5 years.
Not being smart or anything but who is there from that u21 side that will / could make the breakthrough. Obviously being away from home the knowledge of u21/minor is limited.
Jamie Clarke, Kieran Toner, Paul McKeown, Stefan Forker, David Comiskey and Mark Shields would've been the the most impressive from that year's team. Obviously some have already come through, hopefully we'll see more of the rest next year. From this year's U21s, Anto Duffy and Franny Hanratty have also progressed to the senior panel. I suppose the point is that, although the 2009 minors harbour most of our hopes, there are at least a good half dozen lads under the age of 22 that deserve a run out as well.
Comiskey is rated very highly I hear, why was Hannratty only given a couple of minutes?
Because there was enough ball being dropped
or kicked straight to Dublin :o
Minor genius to senior star is a tricky enough move. See Raymie Mulgrew and Peter Donnelly for good examples.
Tasker has all the potential but realising it is a different matter.
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 20, 2010, 03:23:34 PM
Because there was enough ball being dropped
or kicked straight to Dublin :o
Can't agree with you there, Hannratty has impressed in the limited time he has had before.
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 20, 2010, 04:41:48 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 20, 2010, 03:23:34 PM
Because there was enough ball being dropped
or kicked straight to Dublin :o
Can't agree with you there, Hannratty has impressed in the limited time he has had before.
Could you elaborate? Against Donegal he got a lot of ball and either ran into a donegal player or kicked it away. Then against fermanagh he got taken off after the 1st half. Also he got 5 mins against Dublin and still managed to give the ball away once! What am i not getting?
Is it correct that S Forker has left the panel?? Always thought he was useful player.
Quote from: tyroneman on July 20, 2010, 05:04:36 PM
Is it correct that S Forker has left the panel?? Always thought he was useful player.
Yeah he left after the Donegal match. Deserves a run in the McKenna Cup / NFL next year though.
Think it would be fair to say that Kevin orourk should also be given his chance. IMO he was disregarded far too early by POR. Joke the way forker was treated.
Agreed. Forker is far too good a player to be kicking his heels while guys like O'Rourke and McNulty are brought back.
Would it not have been far better to have had Forker there or another younger minor U21 player - even if only at training etc - for the experience at least - than them two warming the bench?
To be fair to the management, any player who isn't getting a shot at first team action (e.g. Forker) is probably left out for a good reason, i.e injured or not cutting it at training.
Quote from: Armamike on July 20, 2010, 07:57:15 PM
To be fair to the management, any player who isn't getting a shot at first team action (e.g. Forker) is probably left out for a good reason, i.e injured or not cutting it at training.
I'll accept that, but McNulty and O'Rourke instead?
Quote from: eireogatron on July 20, 2010, 12:28:56 PM
do you not mean we'll have to take two steps forward for every one step back? otherwise its the opposite of progress lol.
everything else is spot on. - not too many boys on the 02 team had any underage medals (not worth speaking of anyway), but recent Down teams have shown its no guarantee- we cant forget that either.
Enda McNulty - Ulster Minor
Justin McNulty-Ulster Minor
Andrew McCann- Ulster minor
Paul McGrane-Ulster Minor
John Toal-Ulster U21
Paddy McKeever-Ulster Minor and Ulster U21
John McEntee Ulster Minor and Ulster U21
Diarmuid Marsden-Ulster Minor
Steve McDonnell-Ulster U21
Subs who played
Tony McEntee Ulster Minor and Ulster U21
Barry O'Hagan-Ulster Minor
Thats a fair bit of under age pedigree??
Just seen the game, as a neutral, :o Im sure the ref wont get clamped in Dublin for awhile! From when the score was 0-10 to 0-10 until the end, Armagh were 'rode' bareback!
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 20, 2010, 10:19:02 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 20, 2010, 12:28:56 PM
do you not mean we'll have to take two steps forward for every one step back? otherwise its the opposite of progress lol.
everything else is spot on. - not too many boys on the 02 team had any underage medals (not worth speaking of anyway), but recent Down teams have shown its no guarantee- we cant forget that either.
Enda McNulty - Ulster Minor
Justin McNulty-Ulster Minor
Andrew McCann- Ulster minor
Paul McGrane-Ulster Minor
John Toal-Ulster U21
Paddy McKeever-Ulster Minor and Ulster U21
John McEntee Ulster Minor and Ulster U21
Diarmuid Marsden-Ulster Minor
Steve McDonnell-Ulster U21
Subs who played
Tony McEntee Ulster Minor and Ulster U21
Barry O'Hagan-Ulster Minor
Thats a fair bit of under age pedigree??
i dont dispute that theres a few Ulster medals in that team, however you're missing the point of my argument - which is that minor success is a long term payout not something that (for the most part) reaps rewards in the following few years which is what some believe will happen, and also in the cases of Down and Derry in particular it is no guarantee of senior success at all.
most of these ULSTER medals came 10 years before the AI win, and there wasnt a single AI inter county medal between them (some had club medals).
Therefore we should be looking at last years minors to be successful AT ALL IRELAND STANDING in 2019, not 2011 which is what some people think.
It very much depends on who is added year on year and how good they are. Down relied solely on the 1999 AI minors for the last 10 years many of whom were forwards - No defence. Derry - AI minor champs 1989 Senior champs 1993 Trone AI Minor champs 1998 senior champs 2003. My point is it should not take 10 years ,you can concievably challenge in 4/5 years but it depends a lot on the quality of the other players both younger and older.
even 1/2 players added each year can make a big difference. R. Clarkes Co. minor team was nothing special nor stevie McDonnells and yet they were added to the squad at different times to a team that included sucessful minors (even if it was 8/ 10 years previous)
Quote from: you take er! on July 22, 2010, 02:45:38 PM
It very much depends on who is added year on year and how good they are. Down relied solely on the 1999 AI minors for the last 10 years many of whom were forwards - No defence. Derry - AI minor champs 1989 Senior champs 1993 Trone AI Minor champs 1998 senior champs 2003. My point is it should not take 10 years ,you can concievably challenge in 4/5 years but it depends a lot on the quality of the other players both younger and older.
even 1/2 players added each year can make a big difference. R. Clarkes Co. minor team was nothing special nor stevie McDonnells and yet they were added to the squad at different times to a team that included sucessful minors (even if it was 8/ 10 years previous)
i will agree with you there. I was meant to type "
by that logic we could be looking at 2019" rather than stating we would be waiting til 2019.
I would say we wont know for sure until perhaps 2012/13 who will make the grade and what way they will stand in all ireland terms rather than just producing decent inter county footballers, and would imagine it would be 2014 perhaps before these guys are experienced enough to bed in properly with the likes of the Clarkes, Vernon, Toner, Donaghy, Moriarty, Aaron etc. and challenge for Sam. I think this would have a great age profile of 7 or 8 28-31 yr olds and 7 or 8 20-24 yr olds in the team, which I think is ideal for a tilt at the title - (without discounting anyone else of a different age, just trying to highlight what I think the make up of the team could be)