DUBLIN V ARMAGH sat 17th @ 5.00pm croke park

[nrico2006]

I don't think our footballers are much behind those in many county teams which are doing much better.  This has been the case since 2006.  The decline has been partly due to the loss of major players who cannot be instantly replaced and have yet to be fully replaced.

However, the major part of the decline has been due to the management of the team.  JK, PMcD and POR have not essentially changed the playing style/method while they no longer have the team from 99 to 05 which had the ability and strength to play to that style.  other sides have progressed by evolving the physical and defensive method used by Armagh during their heyday but the Armagh management has not moved in the same way.  Defence is always the first priority, if you can reduce the number of scores conceded then chances of winning are increased, if you mantain possession, the opposition cannot attack and you do not attempt a shot on target unless you are within 25m and in front of goal.  This has produced a team with a mentality which is epitomised by AK, he goes to his own 30-40 m zone, collects the ball and runs out of defence but suddenly stops after crosing the opposition 40 m line and toe taps the ball before hand passing it to some else.  The handpasses continue until someone breaks the defensive line which has now been established and attempts to score or more often the ball is turned over and the opposition breaks to score.  Armagh are at their best when this doesn't happen, not often enough they are able to easily score when the ball is moved quickly from defence to the inside line and the ball over the bar or in the net.

Current management are just continuing on from PMcD and JK with no idea how to make improvements to to even try to see how the system has evolved with Tyrone.  For many of the fifteen on the field for Tyrone at the throw in on Sunday, Armagh have an equivalent in terms of talent and ability but lacking in experience.  However, Armagh do not have a system of play like Tyrone in which every player knows what he must do and the role of each of his team mates and a management team who know exactly how the team works and how to make changes which will be game altering/winning.  In addition, Tyrone have also assumed the mantle of being unbeatable, unflappable and always playing to the whistle which has a devastating mental affect on their opponents, an advantage held by Armagh until 2006. 

Armagh can compete with the best again but we need a management capable of bringing fresh ideas and a system of play, a trainer who can deliver players with the bursts of speed needed to move the ball quickly rather than running into the tackle and a renewed confidence in the system and themselves.  POR does not carry all the blame, DM and JMN appear to have the say on the line.  i don't know where we go for new management but it is essential.

Agree with a lot of what you have said TYP, but the statement in bold would be a bit far fetched IMO.  Armagh will need to change how they play, and if they can successfully adapt to a more efficient gameplan then there could be potential, but pace and mobility is a key ingredient in the modern game and Armagh seem to lack these attributes in a few crucial areas of the field, and on top of that there seems to be a shortage of players who can take a score, or even attempt to take a score.

[mackers]

Stevie definitely wont be coming back in 2011. Wont be made official until later in the year but he has definitely thrown the towel in. Hell of a player.

http://www.armagh-gaa.com/Orchard-TV/News/AUDIO---Dublin-0-14-Armagh-0-11.aspx

According to Paddy O'Rourke Armagh will get another 4 years out of Stevie McDonnell

Stevie has confirmed that we won't be retiring in this morning's Irish News..........good news for a change. He singles out Robbie Tasker for a mention in his interview as well. The lad is pure genius.

[under the bar]

Stevie has confirmed that we won't be retiring in this morning's Irish News..........

You & Stevie an item then?

[mackers]

Stevie has confirmed that we won't be retiring in this morning's Irish News..........

You & Stevie an item then?

Sh1t..............we didn't want it to become public so soon........

[mountainboii]

Indiana I don't see how you put an arbitary figure like 5 years on a resurgence. Surely Armagh are only as far away as the time it will take to get players on the team which will vastly improve the side. My own view is that there's a possibility such players are only 2 or 3 years away (last year's u21s were as good as anybody else in the country in my opinion, the Minors were better than the rest).

Maybe these lads will have ability and character to meet the challenges posed by Senior football, perhaps they won't. But if they do, it may not take them 5 years.

Not being smart or anything but who is there from that u21 side that will / could make the breakthrough. Obviously being away from home the knowledge of u21/minor is limited.

Jamie Clarke, Kieran Toner, Paul McKeown, Stefan Forker, David Comiskey and Mark Shields would've been the the most impressive from that year's team. Obviously some have already come through, hopefully we'll see more of the rest next year. From this year's U21s, Anto Duffy and Franny Hanratty have also progressed to the senior panel. I suppose the point is that, although the 2009 minors harbour most of our hopes, there are at least a good half dozen lads under the age of 22 that deserve a run out as well.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Indiana I don't see how you put an arbitary figure like 5 years on a resurgence. Surely Armagh are only as far away as the time it will take to get players on the team which will vastly improve the side. My own view is that there's a possibility such players are only 2 or 3 years away (last year's u21s were as good as anybody else in the country in my opinion, the Minors were better than the rest).

Maybe these lads will have ability and character to meet the challenges posed by Senior football, perhaps they won't. But if they do, it may not take them 5 years.

Not being smart or anything but who is there from that u21 side that will / could make the breakthrough. Obviously being away from home the knowledge of u21/minor is limited.

Jamie Clarke, Kieran Toner, Paul McKeown, Stefan Forker, David Comiskey and Mark Shields would've been the the most impressive from that year's team. Obviously some have already come through, hopefully we'll see more of the rest next year. From this year's U21s, Anto Duffy and Franny Hanratty have also progressed to the senior panel. I suppose the point is that, although the 2009 minors harbour most of our hopes, there are at least a good half dozen lads under the age of 22 that deserve a run out as well.

I was very impressed by the entire half back line, as well as Shields. Comiskey is the lad from Tullysarron who was traveling from Scotland isn't he? There was a young fella from Harps at centre half back as well who impressed me.

[mackers]

Indiana I don't see how you put an arbitary figure like 5 years on a resurgence. Surely Armagh are only as far away as the time it will take to get players on the team which will vastly improve the side. My own view is that there's a possibility such players are only 2 or 3 years away (last year's u21s were as good as anybody else in the country in my opinion, the Minors were better than the rest).

Maybe these lads will have ability and character to meet the challenges posed by Senior football, perhaps they won't. But if they do, it may not take them 5 years.

Not being smart or anything but who is there from that u21 side that will / could make the breakthrough. Obviously being away from home the knowledge of u21/minor is limited.

Jamie Clarke, Kieran Toner, Paul McKeown, Stefan Forker, David Comiskey and Mark Shields would've been the the most impressive from that year's team. Obviously some have already come through, hopefully we'll see more of the rest next year. From this year's U21s, Anto Duffy and Franny Hanratty have also progressed to the senior panel. I suppose the point is that, although the 2009 minors harbour most of our hopes, there are at least a good half dozen lads under the age of 22 that deserve a run out as well.

I was very impressed by the entire half back line, as well as Shields. Comiskey is the lad from Tullysarron who was travelled from Scotland isn't he? There was a young fella from Harps at centre half back as well who impressed me.

Yea, he's doing dentistry, so he's going to be over there a while which will hinder his progress on the county scene I'd imagine.

[Armamike]

At the minute it looks like any progress this team is going to make over the next few years will be really incremental, one step forward, two steps back kind of thing.  Get in some fresh blood next year from last year's minors and the u21s and hopefully things will develop but there has to be a reappraisal now by the management of the type of performance required and the template to play to. There is a real lack of urgency and hard work about this team, rather than a lack of pace. Individually a lot of those players are fairly pacy, but they don't play the game as if their lives depend on it. They don't put their bodies on the line and put in the hard yards closing down the opposition and providing support for each other (a la our friends in Tryone).  Maybe the players are being restricted because they've been instructed to play a certain way but it pains me to say it, they look a lazy outfit and have done since 2006.  The Armagh team of old were probably slower individually but they played the game with a rage and at a higher tempo - men on a mission, they supported each other. We don't have some of the quality of footballer that we had a few years back, especially in the forwards, but there is quality there - most of these players have won provincial or all-Ireland medals at minor or U21 level. That has to count for something and is more than a lot of counties can boast.

[eireogatron]

do you not mean we'll have to take two steps forward for every one step back? otherwise its the opposite of progress lol.

everything else is spot on. - not too many boys on the 02 team had any underage medals (not worth speaking of anyway), but recent Down teams have shown its no guarantee- we cant forget that either.

[The Konica]

And Kildare seem to be doing alrite without him as well.  The Grimley nonsense needs to be put to bed sharpish.  I've stated before I firmly believe he'll take his chance when it suits him, he's shrewd enough to know when to come back - he'll be there in about 3 years when we have blooded our minors/U21's.  No matter what outsiders may think, i firmly believe the talent is there, it's about managing it correctly.  The style of play is the big problem, we promised a lot during the McKenna Cup and League and reverted to type when hardies came to hardies, that's the disappointing thing.  As I stated elsewhere today, there's no way on this earth that thats the type of football that POR wants to play, it was McNulty written all over it. That would suggest to me that POR is perhaps weak as the No1. 

O'Rourke deservers another year no matter what, hopefully he'll stamp his style of play on the team next season.

Exactly my point.  McNulty and Murtagh are in charge and not to our advantage.  I wouldn't be so much in favour of continuing with POR given his weakness as No1 and his lack of having a clue on his own.

Sorry, I'm struggling to follow your point TYP ...?

I know you don't rate POR, but do you also mean that McNulty and Murtagh shouldn't be there at all also?

[The Konica]

there is not a chance mc gurn will be going anywhere. hes talks the talk about training mathodolgy but end of day knows nothing about gaelic so how is that man qualified to be training the team. get a football coach in. for all the talk about his unique power and speed training 3 things

1)lastrugby world cup - irelands fitness pathetic
2)bernard dunne - powder puff
3)armagh - overtrained - peaked in league fitness wise/no sharpness

And it a fact they were running up hills in nov. wat was that about. pure craziness for someone apparently in the know

Well that points been raised by a good few by now - but don't you think you're being a tad harsh?

Although I'd be amazed if things stay the same in that whole area next year. They whole thing was a mess, too slow, going looking for contact, peaking for the league, injuries etc. 

Then again they might just be stubborn and stick at it next year too!

[Applesisapples]

Indiana I don't see how you put an arbitary figure like 5 years on a resurgence. Surely Armagh are only as far away as the time it will take to get players on the team which will vastly improve the side. My own view is that there's a possibility such players are only 2 or 3 years away (last year's u21s were as good as anybody else in the country in my opinion, the Minors were better than the rest).

Maybe these lads will have ability and character to meet the challenges posed by Senior football, perhaps they won't. But if they do, it may not take them 5 years.

Not being smart or anything but who is there from that u21 side that will / could make the breakthrough. Obviously being away from home the knowledge of u21/minor is limited.

Jamie Clarke, Kieran Toner, Paul McKeown, Stefan Forker, David Comiskey and Mark Shields would've been the the most impressive from that year's team. Obviously some have already come through, hopefully we'll see more of the rest next year. From this year's U21s, Anto Duffy and Franny Hanratty have also progressed to the senior panel. I suppose the point is that, although the 2009 minors harbour most of our hopes, there are at least a good half dozen lads under the age of 22 that deserve a run out as well.

Comiskey is rated very highly I hear, why was Hannratty only given a couple of minutes?

[Tyrones own]

Because there was enough ball being dropped
or kicked straight to Dublin

[tyroneman]

Minor genius to senior star is a tricky enough move. See Raymie Mulgrew and Peter Donnelly for good examples.

Tasker has all the potential but realising it is a different matter.

[Applesisapples]

Because there was enough ball being dropped
or kicked straight to Dublin

Can't agree with you there, Hannratty has impressed in the limited time he has had before.