DUBLIN V ARMAGH sat 17th @ 5.00pm croke park

[bennydorano]

Breaking news:

No inter-county referee has ever gone out with the objective of beating one team.

If anyone can prove otherwise, then I'll eat my hat.

Nobody will ever convince me that Kinneavey didn't cheat us out of thon Meath league game this year, 2 totally unexplainable decisions late on that gifted Meath 2 points.

People saying neither will be there in the final shake up - eh... tell us something we don't know.  It's about development for Armagh, not sure what Gilroy's trying to achieve, he just seems to have dismantled a fairly young team and replaced it with a less effect fairly young team.

If Ronan clarke was playing I'd be fairly confident, without him I wouldn't be sure at all.  Think we've a bit of a soft underbelly tbh, Dublin mightn't be good enough to expose it, but it will be exposed before the year's out.  If Lavery and Toner are fit and ready to go we might sneak it.

[Jinxy]

Breaking news:

No inter-county referee has ever gone out with the objective of beating one team.

If anyone can prove otherwise, then I'll eat my hat.

Nobody will ever convince me that Kinneavey didn't cheat us out of thon Meath league game this year, 2 totally unexplainable decisions late on that gifted Meath 2 points.

People saying neither will be there in the final shake up - eh... tell us something we don't know.  It's about development for Armagh, not sure what Gilroy's trying to achieve, he just seems to have dismantled a fairly young team and replaced it with a less effect fairly young team.

If Ronan clarke was playing I'd be fairly confident, without him I wouldn't be sure at all.  Think we've a bit of a soft underbelly tbh, Dublin mightn't be good enough to expose it, but it will be exposed before the year's out.  If Lavery and Toner are fit and ready to go we might sneak it.

Ah will ye all leave us alone FFS! 

[Hardy]

Benny - write to the Meath players and ask for a replay. They are the go-to group for decisions like this. Well, them and Joe Duffy.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Benny - write to the Meath players and ask for a replay. They are the go-to group for decisions like this. Well, them and Joe Duffy.

Ahem, I think you'll find it's Phillip Boucher Hayes this week. Now there's a name u won't see on many teamsheets...

[illdecide]

Looking forward to the match, two teams evenly match (IMO) and should be a decent game as Armagh tend to play a better more open game against our Southern Brethren. I agree that neither of these two teams will break much delph this year but it's all about building for the next 2-3 years for a team that can challenge for Sam

[Redhand Santa]

If we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.

Dont get me wrong I am more than delighted and if we do go out against Dublin I think it will be a successful season. Im still going to think it will be hard to see how good this team really is. There is a big performance in both of these teams and hopefully it will be on Saturday. The good thing about Armagh is that apart from the Meath game we have lost with 14 men and thats when this is the only time Armagh falls apart.

I'll tell you exactly how good they are: about 5 or 6 players short of an AI winning team. But it isn't about how good they are now, it's how good they are in 2012 or 2013 that matters. Anything achieved before then is a bonus.

Its no coincidence that Armagh's two big defeats this year have been when that tool Martin Sludden from Tyrone was the "referee". We've only lost one other competitive game this year and that was a game we really should have won against Meath back in February in Navan.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2010/0606/monaghan_armagh.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0322/1224266809592.html

Armagh can beat Dublin provided Sludden is not the referee. He should immediately hang up the whistle after his disgraceful decision to award Meath "the goal" in Sunday's Leinster final. An obvious square ball infringement, followed by a goal more akin to a rugby style try and then a failure to consult with his umpires should mean Sludden is dropped as a referee similar to what happened to poor referees in the world cup.

Are you having a laugh? Monaghan beat Armagh by 12 points. Had scored about 1-3 in a row and were well on top before Mallons sending off. You really think Armagh would have won the game with a different referee?

[Jinxy]

Benny - write to the Meath players and ask for a replay. They are the go-to group for decisions like this. Well, them and Joe Duffy.

Ahem, I think you'll find it's Phillip Boucher Hayes this week. Now there's a name u won't see on many teamsheets...

Is he one of the Boucher-Hayes' from Tang?

[you take er!]

REDHAND SANTA! I would keep it shtum about what people think about refs. You lot moan, shout and cry about EVERY free that goes against you, sure wasnt it the ref that lost you the Ulster Final in 2005? Shhh mate, worry about Monaghan on Sunday and stop makin yourself out to be an eejit.

[PatDaly]

If we win it would take some twisting of logic to suggest that progress hasn't been made. Four wins will better the previous three years combined. Given our abysmal form of late I don't think we are in any position to be dismissive of the calibre of the opposition in those victories. We should be delighted with any sort win.

Dont get me wrong I am more than delighted and if we do go out against Dublin I think it will be a successful season. Im still going to think it will be hard to see how good this team really is. There is a big performance in both of these teams and hopefully it will be on Saturday. The good thing about Armagh is that apart from the Meath game we have lost with 14 men and thats when this is the only time Armagh falls apart.

I'll tell you exactly how good they are: about 5 or 6 players short of an AI winning team. But it isn't about how good they are now, it's how good they are in 2012 or 2013 that matters. Anything achieved before then is a bonus.

Its no coincidence that Armagh's two big defeats this year have been when that tool Martin Sludden from Tyrone was the "referee". We've only lost one other competitive game this year and that was a game we really should have won against Meath back in February in Navan.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2010/0606/monaghan_armagh.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0322/1224266809592.html

Armagh can beat Dublin provided Sludden is not the referee. He should immediately hang up the whistle after his disgraceful decision to award Meath "the goal" in Sunday's Leinster final. An obvious square ball infringement, followed by a goal more akin to a rugby style try and then a failure to consult with his umpires should mean Sludden is dropped as a referee similar to what happened to poor referees in the world cup.

Are you having a laugh? Monaghan beat Armagh by 12 points. Had scored about 1-3 in a row and were well on top before Mallons sending off. You really think Armagh would have won the game with a different referee?

If Sludden wasn't from Tyrone you'd be 100% in agreement with me. The man is easily the worst inter-county referee in Ireland at the moment. Why can't he do like Bannon did and retire now? I'm sure some of the Dublin newspapers could give him a job.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Benny - write to the Meath players and ask for a replay. They are the go-to group for decisions like this. Well, them and Joe Duffy.

Ahem, I think you'll find it's Phillip Boucher Hayes this week. Now there's a name u won't see on many teamsheets...

Is he one of the Boucher-Hayes' from Tang?

No that's a different Boucher-Hayes', there's about 4 of them...

[Redhand Santa]

In my opinion Sludden isnt a good referee. However to suggest he made the difference between Monaghan beating Armagh by 12 and Armagh winning the game is laughable.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Think we're generous enough odds at 13/8 to win this one. I'd have thought the betting would have been much more even. I'd assess this game as fairly 50/50. Dublin can't be as bad as they appeared aginst Wexford and Meath. I'd be fairly hopeful of a win and possibly even another match or two.

[armaghniac]

Think we're generous enough odds at 13/8 to win this one. I'd have thought the betting would have been much more even. I'd assess this game as fairly 50/50

The weight of money is always on Dublin. The bookies have thousands laid on Dublin to win the AI and will be happy to pay out to anyone who beats them. If you always bet against Dublin you'd generally come out ahead because of this mispricing.

I'd be fairly hopeful of a win and possibly even another match or two.

After this come the provincial losers. Limerick could be tough enough, but their frame of mind in relation to qualifiers is difficult to judge, likewise Louth. Roscommon will be probably be in there and Dublin or Armagh could handle them, I expect. Either Tyrone or Monaghan would be a tricky, though.

[Armaghgeddon]

In my opinion Sludden isnt a good referee. However to suggest he made the difference between Monaghan beating Armagh by 12 and Armagh winning the game is laughable.

Same thing happened against Down in the league. Armagh were battered by Down in the opening minutes but then Armagh started getting into their stride and then player sent off and the team collapsed. Against Monaghan the same thing happened but against much better opposition. You can't say that after less than 12 months Monaghan are 12 points better than Armagh. Not taking anything away from Monaghan here but when Armagh are reduced to 14 they fall apart.

[Hound]

Wow, I know the odds are always skewed but Armagh 13/8 and Dublin 8/13 is extraordinary!

I expect only one change in the Dublin defence. The very young and inexperienced full back line that struggled badly v Meath got their deserved 2nd chance v Tipp and did reasonably well, if you excuse the slip that led to the goal. Of course Tipp werent all that good. If anyone is under pressure it'd be McMahon, but I reckon he'll hold on.

Henry and Brennan are certs for the half back line. I don't think Cullen is in the running for a half back spot, so that leaves Nolan, Cahill and Casey for the last spot. Nolan wasnt all that bad and may get another chance, but he didnt get involved enough. A Cahill recalll would be a good sign.

Be interesting to see whether Fennell gets the recall at midfield. Some doubt over his fitness, and I get the feeling the management like having the option of a big man off the bench. McAuley will definitely start as he played well v Tipp. McConnell still frustrates as he doesnt win his fair share of high balls. He uses the ball well though and he got two points at the weekend so he'll keep his place.

I really hope Cullen starts at wing forward. So one or both of Flynn and Corkery will lose out. Personally I'd leave both out. Thngs didnt go that well for McManamon, despite his best efforts, so I reckon he'll lose out to Keaney.

Would be nice to get a win over a decent non-Leinster team, but no doubt that Armagh are the value bet.

As an aside its interesting to see Anthony Daly criticising Gilroy for not releasing O'Carroll to play in the U21 Leinster hurling final on Wednesday night:

"It just seems to me that some people in Dublin football are more worried about Dublin hurling than Armagh.

"It's unbelievable. We'll have four guys playing in the under 21 match and against next Saturday (against Antrim in the All-Ireland hurling qualifiers). The football management's point of view is that it's too much to ask him to play on Wednesday and again on Saturday. But he's 20 - a fit, young fella.

"Sixty minutes of hurling on Wednesday is not going to make him unavailable for Saturday. It's a joke - look how fellas last in the World Cup with matches every three or four days.

"How do they last on the Lions tour when they go and play twice a week? Rubbish. It's very disappointing - it's Rory's last year at under 21 and he's always given commitment to hurling."

EDIT!
The DCB have intervened and instructed that O'Carroll be made available for the hurling game tonight.

EDIT EILE
He wasn't allowed play after all!