After being told that the "homecoming" parade for Irish murderers mercenaries currently serving in the British Army was not aimed to offend anyone, the Parades Commission website now tells us that this obscene procession will end up at Lanyon Place, between the only two nationalist areas in the city – The Markets and Short Strand.
http://www.paradescommission.org/parades/?parade=25270 (http://www.paradescommission.org/parades/?parade=25270)
Date of Parade 2nd November 2008
Start Time of Outward Route 12.45
Proposed Outward Route Front gate RBAI
College Square
Howard Street
Donegall Square
Cenotaph
Donegall Square North
City Hall
Chicester Street
Crown Courts Plaza
Oxford Street
Lanyon Place
City Council Reception
End Time of Outward Route 13.05
Number of Bands 1
Expected Number of Participants 240
Expected Number of Supporters 300 (yeah right :o)
Expected Number of RUC to 'police' the parade: 2000
Expected Number of lockdown hours for nationalist residents: 48
QuoteExpected Number of RUC to 'police' the parade: 2000
Expected Number of lockdown hours for nationalist residents: 48
Expected number of days rioting - 7
We haven't had a good riot in a long time.
Why can't the march up and down the shankhill or something?
On the bright side, there shouldn't be any problems finding a parking space for a few days.
Quote from: Donagh on October 08, 2008, 12:16:36 PM
On the bright side, there shouldn't be any problems finding a parking space for a few days.
You'd need to hide the babies and Puppy dogs though, in case they go blood thirsty again and think it's Iraq.
Quote from: Donagh on October 08, 2008, 11:58:43 AM
After being told that the "homecoming" parade for Irish murderers mercenaries currently serving in the British Army was not aimed to offend anyone, the Parades Commission website now tells us that this obscene procession will end up at Lanyon Place, between the only two nationalist areas in the city – The Markets and Short Strand.
Expected Number of lockdown hours for nationalist residents: 48
Eh? Lanyon place is outside the Waterfront, city centre and 'public/shared' space - Short Strand is close to a mile away! And the only 2 Nationalist areas in the city? Sure there's only a few thousand living in both!
Also, where's the 'lockdown' coming from? Most of the people who live in these Nationalist areas don't enter or exit them anywhere near Lanyon Place.
Just ignore the parade if you're not interested in it. Let anyone who wants join in and everyone else just ignore it. Peacefully portest if you must.
Did anyone here ever consider joining the army?
I've often wondered what it would be like to kill people and get away with it. (Eeek, men in white coats have just appeared at my desk). But imagine being faced with an Arfghan 15 yr old and seeing the white of his eyes and the fear in his face and saying to yourself its the end of the line you you boyo and pull the trigger. You can just switch off the fact that this boy has a father and a mother and brothers and sisters and they'll never see him again. You can revel in the fact that unionists will applaud you and pin medals on your lapel.
But at the end of the day, you've killed another human being. How can you live with yourself?
Quote from: Orior on October 08, 2008, 01:21:59 PM
Did anyone here ever consider joining the army?
I've often wondered what it would be like to kill people and get away with it. (Eeek, men in white coats have just appeared at my desk). But imagine being faced with an Arfghan 15 yr old and seeing the white of his eyes and the fear in his face and saying to yourself its the end of the line you you boyo and pull the trigger. You can just switch off the fact that this boy has a father and a mother and brothers and sisters and they'll never see him again. You can revel in the fact that unionists will applaud you and pin medals on your lapel.
But at the end of the day, you've killed another human being. How can you live with yourself?
Not that i'd ever consider joining the army or want to kill anyone, but if it was a case of 'shoot or be shot', it propbably makes the decision making a bit easier.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2008, 01:18:42 PM
Eh? Lanyon place is outside the Waterfront, city centre and 'public/shared' space - Short Strand is close to a mile away! And the only 2 Nationalist areas in the city? Sure there's only a few thousand living in both!
Also, where's the 'lockdown' coming from? Most of the people who live in these Nationalist areas don't enter or exit them anywhere near Lanyon Place.
Just ignore the parade if you're not interested in it. Let anyone who wants join in and everyone else just ignore it. Peacefully portest if you must.
Lanyon Place borders the only exit from the Short Strand (which is not into a loyalist no-go area) and opposite the Markets. You can be damn sure the RUC will have both of these areas surrounded well in advance to accommodate this obscenity. If they wanted a parade it could have been held in many much less contentious areas of the city or up in the cathedral where they wouldn't be annoying anyone.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2008, 01:29:14 PM
Not that i'd ever consider joining the army or want to kill anyone, but if it was a case of 'shoot or be shot', it propbably makes the decision making a bit easier.
Yes but by joining the army and going to Iraq or Afghanstan they are knowingly and deliberately putting themselves in that position.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 01:04:24 PM
Do they even have these parades in England?
They do indeed - that was what kick-started this idea.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2008, 01:41:37 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 01:04:24 PM
Do they even have these parades in England?
They do indeed - that was what kick-started this idea.
They why have it here? The RIR are based in England. Let them parade away til their hearts content instead of shipping them in here for a days trouble. Took us 30 years to get rid of the cnuts and have a bit of normality, now the unionists want to behave like Belfast is as British as Finchley again. Look where that got us last time...
There are I believe 4 separate Easter Parades along the main streets of Newry every Easter, attended by a handful in each instance, disrupting the entire town for half the day. Not all the town, or the people who live on the route and nationalist - and anyway plenty of nationalists are fed up with these parades.
Quote from: Donagh on October 08, 2008, 01:36:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2008, 01:18:42 PM
Eh? Lanyon place is outside the Waterfront, city centre and 'public/shared' space - Short Strand is close to a mile away! And the only 2 Nationalist areas in the city? Sure there's only a few thousand living in both!
Also, where's the 'lockdown' coming from? Most of the people who live in these Nationalist areas don't enter or exit them anywhere near Lanyon Place.
Just ignore the parade if you're not interested in it. Let anyone who wants join in and everyone else just ignore it. Peacefully portest if you must.
Lanyon Place borders the only exit from the Short Strand (which is not into a loyalist no-go area) and opposite the Markets. You can be damn sure the RUC will have both of these areas surrounded well in advance to accommodate this obscenity. If they wanted a parade it could have been held in many much less contentious areas of the city or up in the cathedral where they wouldn't be annoying anyone.
Eh? Short Strand is across the river from Lanyon Place - the people from Short Strand would surely use Bridge End and Queen's Bridge to access the city centre - this is well away from Lanyon Place. And can the people in The Markets not use the Ormeau Road? No one has reason to be 'locked down'.
Quote from: Donagh on October 08, 2008, 01:45:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2008, 01:41:37 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 01:04:24 PM
Do they even have these parades in England?
They do indeed - that was what kick-started this idea.
They why have it here? The RIR are based in England. Let them parade away til their hearts content instead is shipping them in here for a days trouble. Took us 30 years to get rid of the cnuts and have a bit of normality, now the unionists want to behave like Belfast is as British as Finchley again. Look where that got us last time...
I'd say there'll be a few hoax phonecalls that day from west Belfast... just an excuse for arseholes to wave mini butchers' aprons at columns of khaki-clad child and women killers
Quote from: Leo on October 08, 2008, 01:47:14 PM
There are I believe 4 separate Easter Parades along the main streets of Newry every Easter, attended by a handful in each instance, disrupting the entire town for half the day. Not all the town, or the people who live on the route and nationalist - and anyway plenty of nationalists are fed up with these parades.
4 seperate parades? No there's not. Stop telling lies to suit your own agenda.
Quote from: Donagh on October 08, 2008, 01:36:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2008, 01:18:42 PM
Eh? Lanyon place is outside the Waterfront, city centre and 'public/shared' space - Short Strand is close to a mile away! And the only 2 Nationalist areas in the city? Sure there's only a few thousand living in both!
Also, where's the 'lockdown' coming from? Most of the people who live in these Nationalist areas don't enter or exit them anywhere near Lanyon Place.
Just ignore the parade if you're not interested in it. Let anyone who wants join in and everyone else just ignore it. Peacefully portest if you must.
Lanyon Place borders the only exit from the Short Strand (which is not into a loyalist no-go area) and opposite the Markets. You can be damn sure the RUC will have both of these areas surrounded well in advance to accommodate this obscenity. If they wanted a parade it could have been held in many much less contentious areas of the city or up in the cathedral where they wouldn't be annoying anyone.
Balls! The exit of the short strand is coming over the Albert Bridge beside Central Station. I know as I walk it every bloody day. I also work beside Lanyon place and you don't need to go anywhere near it to get to town from the short strand. Yes, it is slightly shorter to take a shortcut through there and then through the courthouses, but it's not a neccessity.
Add to that the fact it is on a Sunday and the town doesn't even open until 1 anyway and you can see it's nowhere near the disturbance you are making out.
Edit: I forgot about using Queens bridge. That's a shorter route again...
Quote from: Donagh on October 08, 2008, 01:45:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2008, 01:41:37 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 01:04:24 PM
Do they even have these parades in England?
They do indeed - that was what kick-started this idea.
They why have it here? The RIR are based in England. Let them parade away til their hearts content instead of shipping them in here for a days trouble. Took us 30 years to get rid of the cnuts and have a bit of normality, now the unionists want to behave like Belfast is as British as Finchley again. Look where that got us last time...
I think the point is that the soldiers are from here. It's a Newsletter thing. I think it's a pointless exercise anywhere, but if no one was to protest, it would come and go and no one would even notice.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2008, 01:49:24 PM
No one has reason to be 'locked down'.
You tell that to the RUC on the morning of the parade.
Quote from: Doohicky on October 08, 2008, 01:51:50 PM
Balls! The exit of the short strand is coming over the Albert Bridge beside Central Station. I know as I walk it every bloody day. I also work beside Lanyon place and you don't need to go anywhere near it to get to town from the short strand. Yes, it is slightly shorter to take a shortcut through there and then through the courthouses, but it's not a neccessity.
Add to that the fact it is on a Sunday and the town doesn't even open until 1 anyway and you can see it's nowhere near the disturbance you are making out.
1. The parade route is beside two nationalist areas
2. Due to 1 (above) the RUC will have all access to the parade route blocked from these areas
3. In order to enforce 2 (above) this will necessitate a security force operation probably starting the day before and ending after the reception has finished (approx 24 hours)
4. A weekends peace and quite (or as much as you can get in those areas) ruined due to a needless parade.
There should be a parade alright that we can go to and throw old fruit at these idiots. At best they are fools who were sold a lie and who actually thought they went to Iraq to liberate people. At worst they are blood thirsty scum who enjoy shooting and bombing people. Either way there is nothing here to celebrate. It makes me sad to see our rich 1st world country celebrate people who went to a 2nd world country, turned it into a 3rd world country and made it a worse place than it ever was under the leadership of a brutal murdering dictator.
Quote from: Orior on October 08, 2008, 01:21:59 PM
Did anyone here ever consider joining the army?
I've often wondered what it would be like to kill people and get away with it. (Eeek, men in white coats have just appeared at my desk). But imagine being faced with an Arfghan 15 yr old and seeing the white of his eyes and the fear in his face and saying to yourself its the end of the line you you boyo and pull the trigger. You can just switch off the fact that this boy has a father and a mother and brothers and sisters and they'll never see him again. You can revel in the fact that unionists will applaud you and pin medals on your lapel.
But at the end of the day, you've killed another human being. How can you live with yourself?
I always wanted to join the army or wondered what it would have been like. Something about being tested, putting your life on the line for your country and a real transition to manhood is very appealing.
Part of it is wondering what affect killing someone would have on me. I am not talking dropping a bomb on a building where you don't see the faces but up close and personal hand to hand combat kill or be killed. I doubt I am the only poster to wonder this. (White coats on the way). Some people never get over it. I have read a lot of books about various wars and the general consensus is that only 5% of soldiers get over killing someone.
QuoteI've often wondered what it would be like to kill people and get away with it.
For as long as I can remember I often wonder if I committed murder would I get away with it or what could I do to ensure I get away with it - almost plan it.
I probably need the men in white coats too.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 03:00:58 PM
QuoteI've often wondered what it would be like to kill people and get away with it.
For as long as I can remember I often wonder if I committed murder would I get away with it or what could I do to ensure I get away with it - almost plan it.
I probably need the men in white coats too.
That's hardly surprising you hate everybody and everything!! ;D
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 08, 2008, 02:49:49 PM
There should be a parade alright that we can go to and throw old fruit at these idiots. At best they are fools who were sold a lie and who actually thought they went to Iraq to liberate people. At worst they are blood thirsty scum who enjoy shooting and bombing people. Either way there is nothing here to celebrate. It makes me sad to see our rich 1st world country celebrate people who went to a 2nd world country, turned it into a 3rd world country and made it a worse place than it ever was under the leadership of a brutal murdering dictator.
Well said.
Quote from: lfdown2 on October 08, 2008, 03:04:30 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 03:00:58 PM
QuoteI've often wondered what it would be like to kill people and get away with it.
For as long as I can remember I often wonder if I committed murder would I get away with it or what could I do to ensure I get away with it - almost plan it.
I probably need the men in white coats too.
That's hardly surprising you hate everybody and everything!! ;D
The only person in this world I hate is the sister's boyfriend, and I've never planned his murder, just fantasise about thumping the head of him.
why dont they parade down the shankill??
they can wave their flags in peace there...oh wait, theres no fun in that
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on October 08, 2008, 03:04:30 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 03:00:58 PM
QuoteI've often wondered what it would be like to kill people and get away with it.
For as long as I can remember I often wonder if I committed murder would I get away with it or what could I do to ensure I get away with it - almost plan it.
I probably need the men in white coats too.
That's hardly surprising you hate everybody and everything!! ;D
The only person in this world I hate is the sister's boyfriend, and I've never planned his murder, just fantasise about thumping the head of him.
Is he from Cullyhanna by any chance :D
No I wouldn't let anyone from Cullyhanna in to my family!
Quote from: Leo on October 08, 2008, 01:47:14 PM
There are I believe 4 separate Easter Parades along the main streets of Newry every Easter, attended by a handful in each instance, disrupting the entire town for half the day. Not all the town, or the people who live on the route and nationalist - and anyway plenty of nationalists are fed up with these parades.
Republicians marching on Easter Sunday to me is, was, and always will be a disgrace. I never went to an Easter parade and never would.
I never went to a republician march either for that matter and I never would.
I have attended the funerals of some republicians that I have known and that is the extent of my interest and support for Republicianism.
As for the loyal Irish soldiers having a parade in Belfast, that is disgusting and unacceptable, the parades commission is toothless for the most part.
The RIR are scum, they always were and to their dying day they always will be.
not a nice thing to say to your fellow GAA members Dunclug ;)
Seen that earlier donagh, surely it can't be real. No one is that stupid?
so The Bard of Dunclug is a UUP councillor.
Jaysus i can say now,This aint going to be the end of this :o
Quote from: full back on October 08, 2008, 03:47:47 PM
Not even Neil would be that stupid ::)
The same address turns up in the 'Official Newsletter of Ballymena Borough Council Winter 2005'. Unless of course he signed up under another address and changed it later to that one later, but then again he doesn't come across as the brightest of characters - would fit right in at the UUP.
The sad thing is he probably feels like a hard man for typing that.
The type that usually type stuff like that are the most cowardly and would never dream of saying it to anyones face.
Perhaps someone should contact the councillors office?
If its not him I bet Neil would be interested to know this stuff is being spouted in his name.
Donagh I think you should change the name of the thread to reflect the course it has taken.
How hard would it have been for him to open up an account with one e-mail address and then change his address on his profile to that one?
I don't know the ins and outs of the forum, but I know you can change your e-mail address after registering. I, however, do not know if you must have access to the new account to confirm the change.
Suggesting people ring up someones place of work to confront them.
Did we not have a bit of hubris about posting details like this recently?
Though given what he actually posted probably deserved......
Good to see you are utilising your time there as an elected member
I am sure the people who elected you would be happy you are spending your time on a GAA board
BTW, the staff in there are the salt of the earth, allegedly ::)
Yours Sincerely,
Martin Mc Guinness full back
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 01:51:31 PM
Quote from: Leo on October 08, 2008, 01:47:14 PM
There are I believe 4 separate Easter Parades along the main streets of Newry every Easter, attended by a handful in each instance, disrupting the entire town for half the day. Not all the town, or the people who live on the route and nationalist - and anyway plenty of nationalists are fed up with these parades.
4 seperate parades? No there's not. Stop telling lies to suit your own agenda.
Look I may be poor at counting but don't dare call me a liar. I stayed in Newry Easter 2007 and there was:
Sinn Fein
Workers'Party
Rep Sinn Fein
and another group (calling themselves some Graves commemoration or something like that) - possibly IRSP or whatever new band of lunatics wanted to lead the lemmings that day.
That Dunclug character has to be a wind-up, no-one could be that foolish!
He is UUP Fred so anything is possible.
Ive read his previous contributions to the board and i dont believe for a second he didnt post that disgraceful comment.
I've read the previous posts of the Cllr, they all seem of similar intent to be honest and look to me as if the same person wrote them all.
If this is wrong, can you maybe tell us which posts you did and didnt post?
Or did you not realise your e-mail was on public display and are now desperately trying to rectify things?
I think some of the newspapers and radio stations would be greatly interested in your comments.
Maybe we should let them decide??
Fat boy Nolan will be creamin his pants at this story
Quote from: Yes I Would on October 08, 2008, 04:19:48 PM
He is UUP Fred so anything is possible.
Ive read his previous contributions to the board and i dont believe for a second he didnt post that disgraceful comment.
Same here, he's walked a tight rope in his previous posts, he made the comment and now he's shitting it.
I can't believe people vote for such an obvious baboon.
Neill, maybe you want to tell us what you are currently doing in your office to find out who did post the comments and discipline them?
As for calling you, no thanks, I'll leave that to the papers.
Hes probably a DUP man happy to get a UUP man in a bit of bother! :P
I would not be surprised if the comment was posted by this guy. At the end of the day anyone who supports the war in Iraq also supports the bombing of a baghdad market place at lunch time as a suspected "terrorist" may have been present. Scores of people (men, women and children) were blasted to bits. The victims are then called colletal damage by the war apologosts. Maybe board members are also potenial collateral damage to the bard
if you are a UUP counciller who is a member on a GAA board and you don't log out you are at the very least an idiot.
This is gonna roll on a bit :o
Has anyone contacted the local newspapers or radio yet?
I think you should speak to the Mods before doing this.
Mods?
He knows how to make his presence invisible so he's not the techy dumbass he's making himself out to be.
Quote from: full back on October 08, 2008, 04:47:37 PM
Has anyone contacted the local newspapers or radio yet?
No need. There's a fair few people who read this board. Word'll soon spread.
Quote from: The Iceman on October 08, 2008, 04:49:50 PM
I think you should speak to the Mods before doing this.
Mods?
That's what I was thinking, because we can't go accusing him of these comments because he can deny it and the board will be in trouble however can't we contact the papers or radio and advise them to look at this thread?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 04:53:03 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 08, 2008, 04:49:50 PM
I think you should speak to the Mods before doing this.
Mods?
That's what I was thinking, because we can't go accusing him of these comments because he can deny it and the board will be in trouble however can't we contact the papers or radio and advise them to look at this thread?
I think you'll be reading about it in the papers tomorrow, PoG, rest assured ;)
Seriously, this guy is a public representative and has been clearly caught out. He has posted several comments on different days to suggest its him that made the comment. And even if he didnt post that ONE, his other posts must be of interest to the voting public in his area.
He hasnt even told us which posts he actually did send.
One reason, he didnt realise the e-mail address was on public view and has caught himself out big time.
For god sake, someone up north copy the text of this thread quickly before mods delete it and get it to the local radio and papers!!!
Its our responsibility to show the public his true intentions and not be involved in a cover up.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 08, 2008, 04:56:26 PM
Seriously, this guy is a public representative and has been clearly caught out. He has posted several comments on different days to suggest its him that made the comment. And even if he didnt post that ONE, his other posts must be of interest to the voting public in his area.
Yup, the area he's is from he'll get twice the number of votes next time out.
Quote from: Donagh on October 08, 2008, 04:59:06 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 08, 2008, 04:56:26 PM
Seriously, this guy is a public representative and has been clearly caught out. He has posted several comments on different days to suggest its him that made the comment. And even if he didnt post that ONE, his other posts must be of interest to the voting public in his area.
Yup, the area he's is from he'll get twice the number of votes next time out.
Yeah, but he'll probably be standing as an Indepenent Donagh
I've the entire text of the thread up till this point copied and pasted.
Just in case ;)
Quote from: red hander on October 08, 2008, 05:00:20 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 08, 2008, 04:59:06 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 08, 2008, 04:56:26 PM
Seriously, this guy is a public representative and has been clearly caught out. He has posted several comments on different days to suggest its him that made the comment. And even if he didnt post that ONE, his other posts must be of interest to the voting public in his area.
Yup, the area he's is from he'll get twice the number of votes next time out.
Yeah, but he'll probably be standing as an Indepenent Donagh
Would youse all quit, it is just the boul shaney oneill messing about again. :P
Me thinks he thought he was posting anonomously and just got caught out!!!
As delboy would say "what a plonker!"
When reading this earlier i thought his comments were bad, but coming from a elected representative!!
Priceless!
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on October 08, 2008, 05:29:31 PM
Me thinks he thought he was posting anonomously and just got caught out!!!
As delboy would say "what a plonker!"
When reading this earlier i thought his comments were bad, but coming from a elected representative!!
Priceless!
I see he has now hidden his email address - you could be right!
Edit: and now he has made it visible again. Poor diddums is in a little flap :-*
:D :D
The only thing i'm surprised at is Tony hasn't posted anything yet..... ;D
Probably drafting a letter for the Telegraph as we speak!
I wonder what the UUP press office will make of it all?
This is what you miss when your internet access is blocked during working hours!
I know who this is and he is a decent man. I think if he apologises that should be enough and we can all move on. I will call him when I am finished with lunch and ask him to apologise.
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 08, 2008, 07:18:18 PM
I know who this is and he is a decent man. I think if he apologises that should be enough and we can all move on. I will call him when I am finished with lunch and ask him to apologise.
Who do you know, the cllr or the this apparenlty person who snuck on to his computer?
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 08, 2008, 07:18:18 PM
I know who this is and he is a decent man. I think if he apologises that should be enough and we can all move on. I will call him when I am finished with lunch and ask him to apologise.
Surely his constituents have a right to know how he really feels??
This cant be swept under the carpet.
Of all the scumbags ever to come here, his comments were worse than any!!
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 08, 2008, 07:18:18 PM
I know who this is and he is a decent man. I think if he apologises that should be enough and we can all move on. I will call him when I am finished with lunch and ask him to apologise.
Maybe a public apology in the papers would suffice..
Saying i was one of the posters he was refering too.
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on October 08, 2008, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 08, 2008, 07:18:18 PM
I know who this is and he is a decent man. I think if he apologises that should be enough and we can all move on. I will call him when I am finished with lunch and ask him to apologise.
Maybe a public apology in the papers would suffice..
Saying i was one of the posters he was refering too.
Same here, I'll accept a public apology in the papers - or radio, doesn't matter.
As was I, he can apologise to me in the paper, radio or tv, I'm not fussy.
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 08, 2008, 07:18:18 PM
I know who this is and he is a decent man. I think if he apologises that should be enough and we can all move on. I will call him when I am finished with lunch and ask him to apologise.
lunch at 7.18pm? you do work strange hours, assuming of course that you work.
What's happened here? A unionist councillor tells us about the pleasure he would take in members of Gaaboard being taken out and killed by the British army and then all reference to his posts mysteriously disappear!
Does this solve the mystery of the Mods identity? Is he/she housed up in the big MI5 building in Holywood? A cover-up of Kincora proportions...
Nah Donagh I'd say the mod has just deleted it because it was reported (by me anyway, before i realised they should stay up) and not read the whole thread.
Everything is saved/printed anyway.
Quote from: The bard of dunclug on October 08, 2008, 04:01:58 PM
Hi
This is Neill Armstrong its been reported to me that someone has been using my name and password to type comments on the forums first and formost i never typed these comments i must have left the general discussion page open when i left a computer i was using.
I strongly condem anybody who wishes violence on anybody and i would condem anybody who has made these remarks
Neill
are you 4 yet? this is as dumb as it gets. the darwin awards are for fcukwits like you
no need for personal abuse MK, i mean you wouldnt want to give the poor lad something to deflect the attention with ;)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 07:58:37 PM
Nah Donagh I'd say the mod has just deleted it because it was reported (by me anyway, before i realised they should stay up) and not read the whole thread.
Everything is saved/printed anyway.
Its still on Deel Rovers post at 5.19....
Quote from: The bard of dunclug on October 08, 2008, 03:20:33 PM
Its a real pity that the army whilst they were in Northern Ireland hadnt taken some of the recent contributors to this thread out and killed them, that would have caused me real pleasure.
Ah I see it now. Apologies Mod, I didn't really believe you were an MI5 plant.
Quote from: An Fear Rua on October 08, 2008, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 08, 2008, 07:18:18 PM
I know who this is and he is a decent man. I think if he apologises that should be enough and we can all move on. I will call him when I am finished with lunch and ask him to apologise.
lunch at 7.18pm? you do work strange hours, assuming of course that you work.
I am working in Chicago for three weeks.
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 08, 2008, 08:19:54 PM
Quote from: An Fear Rua on October 08, 2008, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 08, 2008, 07:18:18 PM
I know who this is and he is a decent man. I think if he apologises that should be enough and we can all move on. I will call him when I am finished with lunch and ask him to apologise.
lunch at 7.18pm? you do work strange hours, assuming of course that you work.
I am working in Chicago for three weeks.
So what did your mate say when you called him?
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 08, 2008, 08:19:54 PM
Quote from: An Fear Rua on October 08, 2008, 07:33:22 PM
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 08, 2008, 07:18:18 PM
I know who this is and he is a decent man. I think if he apologises that should be enough and we can all move on. I will call him when I am finished with lunch and ask him to apologise.
lunch at 7.18pm? you do work strange hours, assuming of course that you work.
I am working in Chicago for three weeks.
Good stuff, pm me with any decent bars and restaurants out there, Im flying in myself at the end of the month!
Quote from: An Fear Rua on October 08, 2008, 08:13:28 PM
no need for personal abuse MK, i mean you wouldnt want to give the poor lad something to deflect the attention with ;)
it wasnt me afr, someone else posted when i wasnt looking ;)
I usually miss out when any scandal happens on the Board thats why I cant believe what Im reading.I dunno lads,them posts couldnt be from Cllr Neill Armstrong,he couldnt really be that stupid?
Anyway Im a bit slow on the uptake- What does '' Poor Diddums'' mean???
;D
Great thread, progressing from a good old moan to a public defrocking.
I don't know what the féck is a diddum is, I am not offended.
I leave the GAABoard page open most of the time.
If anyone has been offended by anything I wrote then it must have some of the side streets getting in on the action
Am I the only one doesn't find this shocking. I think a lot of people are getting a wee bit carried away with themselves, although it's nice that we don't have to listen to all the keyboard commandos moaning about illegal wars, killing children etc.
Is yer man named after the astronaut or is it just a happy coincidence?
Threads like this should have a big red arrow pointing at them. Had a quick look in earlier, thought the usual faces were having the usual arguments and left. If it is O'Neill it's his biggest catch yet... :D
It has to be a wind up.
It's no wind-up. I see from his Bebo, he's an avid NI soccer supporter - I take it you'll be challenging his fascist attitudes next time you spot him in Windsor Park?
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 09, 2008, 06:50:22 AM
It has to be a wind up.
Off course its a wind-up.
An upstanding member of the community like Mr Campbell would never say anything like that ::)
How does people who vote for this clown feel about him sitting on the GAA board during working time?
Quote from: full back on October 09, 2008, 08:04:58 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 09, 2008, 06:50:22 AM
It has to be a wind up.
Off course its a wind-up.
An upstanding member of the community like Mr Campbell would never say anything like that ::)
How does people who vote for this clown feel about him sitting on the GAA board during working time?
[/b]
I'd say they'd be happy enough - he's doing a good job as far as a lot of them would be concerned - I'd say he'll top the poll next time out as a member of the DUP - He looks to be a real DUP type.
I would say the hard-liners will be delighted that Neil is taking the fight to them 'terrorists in the GAA' , but any right thinking voter will wonder what the fcuk he is doing spending his time reading a GAA board while he is supposed to be at work.
Wonder do the 2 Gerry's, Martin & the lads spend their day reading the owc board??
Quote from: full back on October 09, 2008, 08:23:11 AM
I would say the hard-liners will be delighted that Neil is taking the fight to them 'terrorists in the GAA' , but any right thinking voter will wonder what the fcuk he is doing spending his time reading a GAA board while he is supposed to be at work.
Wonder do the 2 Gerry's, Martin & the lads spend their day reading the owc board??
[/b]
Would anything really surprise you now about Northern Irish politics / politicians ???
Any public apologies in the papers today lads ?..Havent had a chance to look yet....
I'm still deeply traumatised by the whole episode......
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on October 09, 2008, 09:07:07 AM
Any public apologies in the papers today lads ?..Havent had a chance to look yet....
I'm still deeply traumatised by the whole episode......
Nothing yet......... but as I said I couldn't sleep last night and am going to see my GP later in the morning to get something prescribed to help me deal with the trauma of yesterday. The solicitor's office is right next door to the GPs and I might just call in there as well.
So Neil, tell us, did any members of the media contact you last night or this morning?
how is this poster not banned after this incident??
Quote from: fred the red on October 09, 2008, 09:16:40 AM
how is this poster not banned after this incident??
You can't get banned for revealing your inner most thoughts and what you sincerely believe in, can you ??
The bard is banned. Whether or not he is who he might seem is another matter. Having said that, any communications, or PMs, to that username would have ended up in the email address specified, so if he isn't, it may cause the person in question to come on here and take a look at what's going on. I'm therefore clipping those posts, rather than deleting them entirely, just to be on the safe side.
I have my doubts. Surely an elected representative can spell 'Condemn' rather than 'condem' (sic).
Oh he is who he says. The UUP press office isn't that smart either.
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on October 09, 2008, 10:25:57 AM
The bard is banned. Whether or not he is who he might seem is another matter. Having said that, any communications, or PMs, to that username would have ended up in the email address specified, so if he isn't, it may cause the person in question to come on here and take a look at what's going on. I'm therefore clipping those posts, rather than deleting them entirely, just to be on the safe side.
I have my doubts. Surely an elected representative can spell 'Condemn' rather than 'condem' (sic).
Now now Mod !!! Surely you should understand that some of them aren't their for their intellect - just their extreme views !!
Why dont you call him & ask him Mod?
Would make for a good conversation
If it was Mc Afee you would do it for him ;) :D
This thread is no down to 7 pages - it was 7 this morning !
Quote from: full back on October 09, 2008, 09:13:48 AM
So Neil, tell us, did any members of the media contact you last night or this morning?
Heard it through the grapevine that there could well be something in tomorrow's Belfast Telegraph ... we shall see
I see this is front page news in the Irish News today.
Quote from: TORGAEL on October 10, 2008, 07:49:36 AM
I see this is front page news in the Irish News today.
Can ye post it?
I didn't sleep last night either - my doctor ( and solicitor ) has told me just to keep a record of my disturbed sleep pattern and has made a note of it in my file. ;)
I near fell over this morning in the shop when i seen this!
Can anyone post it?
The Irish News website isn't updated from yesterday yet
He looks pretty 'innocent' from the way the paper reported it - it doesn't seem to acknowledge that the username and account are actually his or that you couldn't set up an account without access to that email address. It reads like he was never on the baord at all!
Unionist: 'Kill' web remarks not mine By Rebecca Black
10/10/08
AN ULSTER Unionist councillor last night said his life had been ruined by imposters making sectarian comments in his name on a GAA website.
Neil Armstrong said he was devastated and was now reconsidering his position on Ballymena Borough Council.
He said he had previously posted on the website www.gaaboard.com using the username 'The Bard of Dunclug' but that a spate of increasingly violent comments had since been posted by an unknown person using his name and personal email address.
The conversation in which the remarks were made was about the Royal Irish Regiment troops participating in a homecoming parade in Belfast after serving in Afghanistan in a six-month tour.
One of the comments posted on Tuesday at 3.20pm read: "It's a real pity that the army whilst they were in Northern Ireland hadn't taken some of the recent contributors to this thread out and killed them.
"That would have caused me real pleasure."
An emotional Mr Armstrong said last night that he and his wife were at their wits' end.
"I honestly don't know who would do this," he said.
"Anyone who knows me in Ballymena, whether they be nationalist or unionist, knows this is not me. I have worked for eight years in the community and never sought publicity for good work and now all this.
"It has just ruined my life."
Quote from: el_cuervo_fc on October 10, 2008, 08:58:07 AM
"I honestly don't know who would do this," he said.
What a load of f**king sh1te
Off course he knows who it was. If it wasnt him ::) , then it was someone in his office
If the IN cant tell the true story then they shouldnt report it at all
Looks like Neill & the IN are in cohorts here in a damage limitation exercise ::)
have to agree sounds like a cover up, if was not him ,it someone close to him that posted it
BTW is that the full report on it from the IN, seems very small
In fairness anyone who can boot up a browser reading that will know he's lying through his teeth. The paper had to give him a bit of cover for his work and family.
What do you expect the IN to do, one of the admins of this board even said "i have my doubts". Whether those doubts are right or wrong i wouldnt expect a decent media organization to go in all guns blazing.
Quote from: gerry on October 10, 2008, 09:06:42 AM
have to agree sounds like a cover up, if was not him ,it someone close to him that posted it
BTW is that the full report on it from the IN, seems very small
Yes that's the full report. I was hoping for a bit more delving >:(
His story doesn't add up. On this thread he said that he had left himself logged in when someone made the remark about the RIR shooting people.
Now hes making out as if someone is impersonating him online. Didn't he read any of the previous remarks posted by the 'Bard of Dunclug' and become concerned if it wasn't him?
I originally thought the whole thing was a wind up.
Lads - you all understand how the media works - this is only the start of a very rough ride for Mr. Armstrong who has been caught out and who will, given the right touch, will have to resign.
Where are you Mr. Mc Elduff ?
So he admits that he used to post on here, didnt all the bards posts have a unique style and "point of view"?
Just shows that you need to be careful about what you post here.
There are probably a few other choice posts that some people might look back at with regret if they where to grace the front page of a newspaper.
But how many people hold a public office after being elected by the people?
i think some of ye boys owe o' neill an apology ;)
Quote from: nifan on October 10, 2008, 09:40:00 AM
Just shows that you need to be careful about what you post here.
There are probably a few other choice posts that some people might look back at with regret if they where to grace the front page of a newspaper.
I think you'll find that not many of us are Unionist councillors !!! ;) ;) ;)
What's the bets we get a influx of new posters over this!!
Quote from: supersarsfields on October 10, 2008, 09:52:11 AM
What's the bets we get a influx of new posters over this!!
Councillor Armsrtrong might even join again. He could have more time on his hands.
Magnificently funny, if it had been kept out of the press and solely on the board. This incident probably outdoes the numptiness of Fearon's hotel booking fiasco.
Whilst I believe that his defence, either here or in the paper, doesn't stack up, and that he is the author of his own misfortune, I don't think that anyone's life outside the board should suffer because of something written on here. It matters not if he is an elected representative. Had he hidden his email address, this wouldn't be news worthy. A quiet laugh at the idiot would have been much better than going to the papers. There are other clowns who posted on here and forget to hide their email addresses - I'm thinking of the out half for a Belast rugby club's 5th XV here.
I would be a wee bit concerned about the future of the board after this.
Agreed sam, the mods should not accept new members for a while
Quote from: An Fear Rua on October 10, 2008, 09:37:05 AM
So he admits that he used to post on here, didnt all the bards posts have a unique style and "point of view"?
This is what I'm thinking AFR, shouldn't someone leak the previous posts of this man to the media, if memory serves me well, most of his posts were tinged with a massive dose of bitterness - the mask slips, hope this is pursued. He has admitted to posting on here!
Nifan, the man is an elected public representative (in a council area with alot of sectarian problems - eg Michael McIlveen RIP), at the least he's an idiot, at the worst he's a sectarian bigot who has just "outed" himself accidentally (all allegedlly btw)!
If Mr Armstrong can live with the shame of being a councillor in Ballymena then surely he will ride this out fairly easily.
I think me should all rally round him...after 7pm mass in Harryville tomorrow night ;D
Quote from: full back on October 10, 2008, 09:41:44 AM
But how many people hold a public office after being elected by the people?
Very true, but as has been said before there has been a few comments close to the line of libel. Councilors or not a few lawsuits would put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Oul tonys media career could be on the line given the difference in vitriol in his posts here and his letters to the press.
Quote from: nifan on October 10, 2008, 10:02:07 AM
Quote from: full back on October 10, 2008, 09:41:44 AM
But how many people hold a public office after being elected by the people?
Very true, but as has been said before there has been a few comments close to the line of libel. Councilors or not a few lawsuits would put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Oul tonys media career could be on the line given the difference in vitriol in his posts here and his letters to the press.
So might your oul friend Neil's !
Also concerned about what direction this board will head now. An Irish News Journalist told me by email that they were avid readers of the board for titbits that might interest them to follow up. I thought they'd perhaps attempt to keep it that way instead of trying to fill a front page with it. I knew I should have given the journalist write-off to Kenny Archer.
If a SF councillor posted something on owc regarding the Provo's taking out & shooting posters on a particular thread (allegedly) & was found out, what would the reaction be?
Do you think the Newsletter would look at his side of the story?
Do you think people would be on 'defending' him?
I agree with SS2, whoever alerted the IN on this will probably make us all regret his actions. Was there any need for the board to "go public", surely an "internet forum" would have been wiser than actually naming the baord. Some on here are obsessed with the board achieving publicity/notoriety. We should have had a laugh at his expense and forgot about it as he would have retreated back into the shadows.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 10, 2008, 10:01:04 AM
If Mr Armstrong can live with the shame of being a councillor in Ballymena then surely he will ride this out fairly easily.
I think me should all rally round him...after 7pm mass in Harryville tomorrow night ;D
:D :D :D
Quote from: Minder on October 10, 2008, 10:09:46 AM
I agree with SS2, whoever alerted the IN on this will probably make us all regret his actions. Was there any need for the board to "go public", surely an "internet forum" would have been wiser than actually naming the baord. Some on here are obsessed with the board achieving publicity/notoriety. We should have had a laugh at his expense and forgot about it as he would have retreated back into the shadows.
Someone attached a link to a thread on Slugger and I'd wager that's where the IN got hold of it
What exactly are yous worried about - new members?
Quote from: full back on October 10, 2008, 10:08:08 AM
If a SF councillor posted something on owc regarding the Provo's taking out & shooting posters on a particular thread (allegedly) & was found out, what would the reaction be?
Do you think the Newsletter would look at his side of the story?
Do you think people would be on 'defending' him?
The reaction would have been revulsion, a banning and of course media attention would have been sought by some. Same as here.
The newsletter is a shite paper. The IN is much more savvy.
I dont see him defended. They have quoted what he has said. They do not have all the evidence I am sure so are wary about going too hard.
Internet forums grow and change, thats the nature of the beast. I've been about this one for near ten years now and it's as entertaining now as it was then, although in a very different way and with over a thousand extra members. Same goes for AFR. A bit of new blood won't do any harm.
Looks like the shit has hit the fan on this one :o.
Which of the many offensive posts is the councillor claiming ownership of or is he now washing his hands of them all??
Why should the future of the board be compromised over this??
Each member is responsible for their postings and are aware of the impilcations of offensive postings. The fact that he was an elected councillor i would have thought would have ensured that this individual would have been more careful with the tone and slant his postings were taking.
From today's Belfast Telegraph:
Councillor denies forum slur
I've been set up says Ulster Unionist over offensive comments on GAA website
BY LESLEY-ANNE HENRY
lhenry@belfasttelegraph.co.uk
AN ULSTER Unionist councillor today denied posting offensive comments on a GAA discussion forum.
Neill Armstrong, a member of Ballymena Council, claimed an opportunist used his name and password to post the abusive remarks during an online conversation about next month's Royal Irish Regiment parade.
The discussion, entitled 'Irish mercenaries and unionist coat trailers', took place on the gaaboard.com website on Wednesday afternoon.
At about 3.20pm a controversial comment was posted from Mr Armstrong's username "The bard of dunclug". It read: "It's a real pity that the Army whilst they were in Northern Ireland hadn't taken some of the recent contributors to his thread out and killed them, that would have caused me real pleasure."
The post was in response to a previous comment which read: "As for the loyal Irish soldiers having a parade in Belfast, that is disgusting and unacceptable, the Parades Commission is toothless for the most part."
Just over half an hour later, at 4.01pm, Mr Armstrong intervened to say that someone had sabotaged his web address.
Mr Armstrong, a public representative of eight years experience, admitted he had been logged on to the Gaelic sports site earlier in the day, but said he had "forgotten to log out properly".
He wrote: "Hi, this is Neil Armstrong — it has been reported to me that someone has been using my name and password to type comments on the forums and first and foremost I never typed these comments. I must have left the general discussion page open when I left a computer I was using. I strongly condemn anybody who wishes violence on anybody and I would condemn anybody who has made these remarks. Neill."
Speaking to the Belfast Telegraph, Mr Armstrong said he had been set up and that his reputation had been "run into the ground and covered in muck" by the incident.
"I just didn't log off. I fully expected to be dragged through the coal. It was a simple error. People just believe the absolute worst of you. I am absolutely gutted. I really am. I have got up and I have said anybody on the noticeboard who wants to contact me, can. All I ask is to be judged on what I have done over the last eight years.
"I have gone on the noticeboard when someone told me what was said and I have condemned it unreservedly.
"This is what really aggravates me, if I had wanted to say something really controversial, I could be doing that every five minutes on it, couldn't I? This is what irks me because no matter what I say or do, I am an Ulster Unionist councillor, therefore I am going to be guilty anyway aren't I?
"I am hurt and disappointed. I am not trying to hide anything. This has broken my heart."
Mr Neill declined to say where he had been using the computer.
"I don't know who you contact about these sorts of things. The reality is if I contact a solicitor and people put these things on the board, what can you do?"
"I am taking steps and when I get the person who did it, I will give his or her name and I will get this sorted. But I am not really at liberty to give away the address. All I am saying is just give me a fair crack of the whip."
There are that many people on here anonymously..
The story could get to the papers very easily without anyone calling them.....For all we know there are IN journalists as members...
It's not the point of how it got to the press as far as I'm concerned....
I'm just glad it was reported!
Aw, red hander - you could have edited thon last line for the craic - "I am taking steps and when I get the person who did it, I ......."
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 10, 2008, 10:31:58 AM
Its well known that most if not all the press & media on a national, regional and local basis that provides GAA coverage do look at this board. Jerome Quinn at one time was a poster here. I also remember earlier this year a plant from the Irish DMoS tried to make up a story about the Louth County Football squad as part of a piece for a story they were running about Gaelic Games message boards. Sure not too long ago Dessie Farrell was calling those who on message boards like this didn't support the GPA stance on the grants scheme as "f**king jealous" along with some other choice words! :D
Yes but they'd mainly be journalists of the sporting variety who'd treat the board as a resource. News journalists would treat a political blog like Slugger in a similar fashion and frequent it much more often. But I do get what you're saying, this board is more widely accessed than people think, I remember in 2002/03 a group at a coaching course having a conversation about something that was posted on the board. I was also 'outed' by clubmate under a previous incarnation because I'd said too much about something.
I hope to god he finds the person who posted this comment!!
Why have the mods/admin moved to help this idiot by deleting his account??? It is plainly obvious that he posted these comments and when he was pulled up on them and came out with a c**k and bull story about his account being hacked. The mods should be working to out this sectarian bigot instead of protecting him and his evil words. This idiot should be out of a job, if it was anywhere other than Norn Iron this man wouldnt be employable, but to make matters worse its Ballymena. Its par for the course up there and now the people who run this site are siding with this bigot.
I have gone on the noticeboard when someone told me what was said and I have condemned it unreservedly.
Who would have told him what was posted? Who would have known his user name? This doesnt seem like a site that his mates would be reading.
It seems a bit farfetched that someone would hack into his account then half an hour later one of mates who happened to be reading the baord and happened to be reeading the thread spotted that his user name was used. He was very quick off the mark!
At least the BT reporter had the guts to press him on where he was using the computer unlike the IN ::)
Quote"This is what really aggravates me, if I had wanted to say something really controversial, I could be doing that every five minutes on it, couldn't I?
*chokes*
You made a few controversial comments Neill!!
BT done a better job.
If his comments weren't bad enough, the fact he's bringing his wife into it (IN quotes) to elicit some sort of sympathy shows him up to be a particualrly pathetic arsehole
Quote from: ludermor on October 10, 2008, 10:52:05 AM
I have gone on the noticeboard when someone told me what was said and I have condemned it unreservedly.
Who would have told him what was posted? Who would have known his user name? This doesnt seem like a site that his mates would be reading.
It seems a bit farfetched that someone would hack into his account then half an hour later one of mates who happened to be reading the baord and happened to be reeading the thread spotted that his user name was used. He was very quick off the mark!
Maybe it was bignifanatic? ;)
Does anyone have his previous posts as some of theses were as equally unpalatable as the one he's getting done for, and he's admitted to posting these ones!
Quote from: red hander on October 10, 2008, 11:05:55 AM
If his comments weren't bad enough, the fact he's bringing his wife into it (IN quotes) to elicit some sort of sympathy shows him up to be a particualrly pathetic arsehole
Did your man Berry not wheel out his wife as well around the time he had booked a "massage" ??. ;)
Quote from: orangeman on October 10, 2008, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: red hander on October 10, 2008, 11:05:55 AM
If his comments weren't bad enough, the fact he's bringing his wife into it (IN quotes) to elicit some sort of sympathy shows him up to be a particualrly pathetic arsehole
Did your man Berry not wheel out his wife as well around the time he had booked a "massage" ??. ;)
Must be a unionist thing ;)
I would have bet my mortguage that the bard was a hoax. Glad i didn't.
It's all a plot by GDA to divert from the Special Branch slur ;D
At a minimum it demonstrates that Neil is in close company with some deranged people.
What other stuff did Neil (the real Bard) post?
Anybody got it on record?
How did it all get to the papers?
I seem to remember he was in agreement with that Rangers song about pedophile priests and something about the Famine being over so the Irish should go home (presumably from Scotland). That was an ironic one :-\
Quote from: Minder on October 10, 2008, 10:09:46 AM
I agree with SS2, whoever alerted the IN on this will probably make us all regret his actions. Was there any need for the board to "go public", surely an "internet forum" would have been wiser than actually naming the baord. Some on here are obsessed with the board achieving publicity/notoriety. We should have had a laugh at his expense and forgot about it as he would have retreated back into the shadows.
I'd say he went himself or at least the UUP press office went to the IN with it.
The stroy I heard was that he went to the UUP to sort a stroy out before it came out in the press. So they were ready when the journalisits came knocking on their keyboards.
Quote from: Main Street on October 10, 2008, 11:50:23 AM
It's all a plot by GDA to divert from the Special Branch slur ;D
Lies all lies I tell you, now where's me notebook! ;)
Here are some that were posted by the bard of dunclug. Which bard I don't know.
1. In relation to the famine song.
As far as Im (sic) concerned the song states a very simple question the famine is over go back to your own country? (sic, that's a statement bard, not a question)
What is wrong with that?
2. In the our hero's (sic) thread
Good to see nationalists and republicans showing their true colours need i (sic) say that far to (sic) many catholics (sic) were more than willing to support a terrorist group who killed their unionist neighbours so get off the f**king highground so less crap about illegal wars
Someone appears to have stolen his idenity and his punctuation.
3. Something about the uppity Fenians
Allowing priests to sexually abuse children
Stoning buses filled with Protestants coming back from the Boys (sic) and Girls (sic) Model school (sic)
Attacking kids who wear Northern ireland (sic) tops
Voting for a party in the midst of the troubles who were butchering their neighbours.
Jumping on a kids (sic) head in Ardonye (sic)
And you have the cheek to come on hear (sic) and say catholics (sic) are whiter than white yeah
4. In the why isn't the bbc showing the AI quarter-finals thread (although, I am of the opinion this is quite humourous)
Just watch it on rte (sic) you moaning bastids. (sic)
The saddest thing about the whole escapade is that he feels the need to create an email address like the one he had. That's why I thought it was a piss take. I remember a neighbour once getting elected as a councillor for the SDLP (I have a long memory) and one of his first acts was to order a stamp bearing the legend F****** M******* DC. He then proceeded to stamp every book he owned. He had to get the Tippex out at the next election.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 10, 2008, 12:17:36 PM
Here are some that were posted by the bard of dunclug. Which bard I don't know.
1. In relation to the famine song.
As far as Im (sic) concerned the song states a very simple question the famine is over go back to your own country? (sic, that's a statement bard, not a question)
What is wrong with that?
2. In the our hero's (sic) thread
Good to see nationalists and republicans showing their true colours need i (sic) say that far to (sic) many catholics (sic) were more than willing to support a terrorist group who killed their unionist neighbours so get off the f**king highground so less crap about illegal wars
Someone appears to have stolen his idenity and his punctuation.
3. Something about the uppity Fenians
Allowing priests to sexually abuse children
Stoning buses filled with Protestants coming back from the Boys (sic) and Girls (sic) Model school (sic)
Attacking kids who wear Northern ireland (sic) tops
Voting for a party in the midst of the troubles who were butchering their neighbours.
Jumping on a kids (sic) head in Ardonye (sic)
And you have the cheek to come on hear (sic) and say catholics (sic) are whiter than white yeah
4. In the why isn't the bbc showing the AI quarter-finals thread (although, I am of the opinion this is quite humourous)
Just watch it on rte (sic) you moaning bastids. (sic)
The saddest thing about the whole escapade is that he feels the need to create an email address like the one he had. That's why I thought it was a piss take. I remember a neighbour once getting elected as a councillor for the SDLP (I have a long memory) and one of his first acts was to order a stamp bearing the legend F****** M******* DC. He then proceeded to stamp every book he owned. He had to get the Tippex out at the next election.
There were no computers round at that time !!!!
The guy was asked at the time which posts he actually did post under the username, he hasnt admitted to any of them.
So we have 3 possibilities.
1 - someone has been sneaking onto his computer every time he turns his back (apparantly he always forgets to log off) and posting these comments over the few weeks / months.
2 - he DID post the previous ones, but cant admit it, as admitting to those posts wont cover him in glory, and would strongly suggest it was him to make the death comments due to the similar tone.
Or 3 - he went to the hassle of registering and never posted on the site, which makes no sense.
I hope someone keeps the papers informed of these facts!
Did Neil say he had been on the board posting before but forgot to log off?
I dont think he said he didnt post any previous posts, did he?
Quote from: full back on October 10, 2008, 01:36:36 PM
Did Neil say he had been on the board posting before but forgot to log off?
I dont think he said he didnt post any previous posts, did he?
That's correct.
He is being very clever, he hasnt said he DID post, for example, the famine comments.
Obviously it would be too much to expect the public to believe that he was victim of sneak attacks on his computer on more than one occassion. Then throw in the 3 or 4 other dodgy comments, on different days.
So he wont deny it, and hope nobody brings the other comments on the other days up.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 10, 2008, 01:48:39 PM
He is being very clever, he hasnt said he DID post, for example, the famine comments.
Nah, I'd say one of the UUP PR troubleshooters is being clever.
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it's got us a few more visitors anyway hopefully they might be able to give a few tips to the new dublin manager how not to bottle it in croker against tyrone
(http://i34.tinypic.com/qqokrn.gif)
Brilliant Stalin!!!!
My GP says I shoul still take the midicines that I've been prescried for the trauma - my solicitor says to cme back next week to fill in the forms. ;)
I'm at my wits end :o
I remember on OWC when "big rab" posted about his burgeoning homosexuality, when in fact he hadn't logged off properly.
The fact is that this could happen is most likely why the media wont state "he did it".
Quote from: nifan on October 10, 2008, 03:48:32 PM
I remember on OWC when "big rab" posted about his burgeoning homosexuality, when in fact he hadn't logged off properly.
The fact is that this could happen is most likely why the media wont state "he did it".
:D :D
Still not convinced about him!!
(sorry, Rab) ;)
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 10, 2008, 03:30:34 PM
I'm at my wits end :o
Me too! Don't think i'll be able to go out tonight!
I'd be watching over my shoulder all nite!
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on October 10, 2008, 05:18:55 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 10, 2008, 03:30:34 PM
I'm at my wits end :o
Me too! Don't think i'll be able to go out tonight!
I'd be watching over my shoulder all nite!
my heart goes out to you boys as orangeman said i live in mayo and even i am watching my back, worst thing i have seen has been the 2004 and 2006 Ai finals ;) so i don't think i'll ever be the same after have reading those shocking comments the other day i have been trembling with fear ever since, be brave lads
Quote from: the Deel Rover on October 10, 2008, 05:29:56 PM
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on October 10, 2008, 05:18:55 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 10, 2008, 03:30:34 PM
I'm at my wits end :o
Me too! Don't think i'll be able to go out tonight!
I'd be watching over my shoulder all nite!
my heart goes out to you boys as orangeman said i live in mayo and even i am watching my back, worst thing i have seen has been the 2004 and 2006 Ai finals ;) so i don't think i'll ever be the same after have reading those shocking comments the other day i have been trembling with fear ever since, be brave lads
I'll try my best.....Might have to have a few in the house to pluck up the courage!
oh go on, what was the Fearon hotel story?
Quote from: nifan on October 10, 2008, 03:48:32 PM
I remember on OWC when "big rab" posted about his burgeoning homosexuality, when in fact he hadn't logged off properly.
The fact is that this could happen is most likely why the media wont state "he did it".
nifan, if a libel comes up, under the libel laws, the media HAS to prove he said it, the boul Neil doesn't have to prove he didn't say it... but the fact there are 16-17 other comments from the 'bard', several of them disgusting, i'd venture the Sundays, which have more cahones than the Dailys, will be on the phone to Neil over the next 24 hours just to ask which, IF ANY, of the comments he was responsible for...
Quote from: iluvni on October 10, 2008, 05:53:31 PM
oh go on, what was the Fearon hotel story?
He wanted to book a hotel in Dublin for the All-Ireland Final between Armagh v Tyrone. He was boasting how he got the room at such a good price and how Armagh would destroy Tyrone.
Tyrone won.
and Tony booked the hotel for the wrong weekend! ;)
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 10, 2008, 12:17:36 PM
Here are some that were posted by the bard of dunclug. Which bard I don't know.
1. In relation to the famine song.
As far as Im (sic) concerned the song states a very simple question the famine is over go back to your own country? (sic, that's a statement bard, not a question)
What is wrong with that?
2. In the our hero's (sic) thread
Good to see nationalists and republicans showing their true colours need i (sic) say that far to (sic) many catholics (sic) were more than willing to support a terrorist group who killed their unionist neighbours so get off the f**king highground so less crap about illegal wars
Someone appears to have stolen his idenity and his punctuation.
3. Something about the uppity Fenians
Allowing priests to sexually abuse children
Stoning buses filled with Protestants coming back from the Boys (sic) and Girls (sic) Model school (sic)
Attacking kids who wear Northern ireland (sic) tops
Voting for a party in the midst of the troubles who were butchering their neighbours.
Jumping on a kids (sic) head in Ardonye (sic)
And you have the cheek to come on hear (sic) and say catholics (sic) are whiter than white yeah
4. In the why isn't the bbc showing the AI quarter-finals thread (although, I am of the opinion this is quite humourous)
Just watch it on rte (sic) you moaning bastids. (sic)
The saddest thing about the whole escapade is that he feels the need to create an email address like the one he had. That's why I thought it was a piss take. I remember a neighbour once getting elected as a councillor for the SDLP (I have a long memory) and one of his first acts was to order a stamp bearing the legend F****** M******* DC. He then proceeded to stamp every book he owned. He had to get the Tippex out at the next election.
Jaysus this one's a terra altogether. Given that there's not a hell of a lot of difference in the sentiments he's expressed above and the quote from the Irish news today, I think the bould Mr Armstrong is in a spot of bother here, particularly when you taken into account the disgusting way he has tried to use the Church abuse scandals for his own political oneupmanship. Yes, certainly somebody could have gone into his account without him noticed. I've seen it happen many times in the past Once would be unfortunate, 3 or 4 is stretching the bounds of credibility a bit.
I think there's a lesson here for anybody who uses the anonymity of the internet to get away with saying things they wouldn't dare to say in public. It really isn't difficult for epople to work out who some of us are on here and its happened me many times. The best way to treat boards like this is not to post anything you wouldn't put your name.
I'm a big gay homosexual.
OK, I went for a piss. Who wrote that?
Your boyfriend, I think ;)
Nobody cares what you call yourself, even darling Neil knew that, you have to abuse somebody else to raise the ante.
Couldn't be force fed a mushroom.
I don't eat things that suck shíte for a living.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 10, 2008, 10:20:37 PM
The best way to treat boards like this is not to post anything you wouldn't put your name.
Well said. If you're not willing to stand over it, don't post it.
Love mushrooms. Feck sake even shifted a Monaghan woman for 2 years! Lovely girl.
This bigot needs to be taken to task, his other comments on this board have been just as bad! Lets not lose sight of that.
This is so hilarious.
Neil Armstrong. Up and coming politician or just a 'simple' spaceman?
Opps, I may now be a dead man walking.
Quote from: ziggysego on October 10, 2008, 07:46:05 PM
Quote from: iluvni on October 10, 2008, 05:53:31 PM
oh go on, what was the Fearon hotel story?
He wanted to book a hotel in Dublin for the All-Ireland Final between Armagh v Tyrone. He was boasting how he got the room at such a good price and how Armagh would destroy Tyrone.
Tyrone won.
and Tony booked the hotel for the wrong weekend! ;)
:D
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 11, 2008, 12:04:13 AM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 10, 2008, 10:20:37 PM
The best way to treat boards like this is not to post anything you wouldn't put your name.
Well said. If you're not willing to stand over it, don't post it.
Some times i write things when i'm drunk and i try to stand over it...But its just not possible!! But i'll stagger over it!!
Is that OK?
Talk about shooting the messenger...
From today's Irish News:
Calls for website to be shut down
The chairman of the Antrim County Board last night called for an online GAA discussion forum to be shut down.
Dr John McSparran said there was no control over the site, www.gaaboard.com, which meant that anyone could post offensive comments while hiding behind pseudonyms or even using other members' log-in names.
"People can make any kind of statements behind an anonymous name without having to justify themselves," Dr McSparran said.
"We should be entitled to challenge someone who is making accusations about players."
His comments came as Ballymena UUP councillor Neil Armstrong denied posting violent sectarian remarks on the message board claiming they had been written by someone else under his user name The Bard of Dunclug.
During a debate about a homecoming parade for RIR soldiers returning from Afghanistan remarks appeared under his user name stating: "It's a real pity that the army while while in Northern Ireland hadn't taken some of the recent contributors to this thread out and killed them. That would have caused me real pleasure."
Mr Armstrong's username has now been removed from the website.
The website's moderators say they have doubts as to whether the controversial comments were made by Mr Armstrong.
Dr McSparran said it would probably be in everyone's interests to have the site taken off the internet.
Meanwhile, a spokesman for the UUP said yesterday that the party would take no action against Mr Armstrong.
"Neil is someone in the party who is noted for his liberal views and his involvement with wider community politics," the spokesman said.
"I think it is very unlikely that he would have said these sorts of things."
1. McSparran is talking shite and obviously isn't aware of the facts... "People can make any kind of statements behind an anonymous name without having to justify themselves," Dr McSparran said. Er, doc, it wasn't anonymous, the clown forgot to hide his email address on his profile.
2. The website's moderators say they have doubts as to whether the controversial comments were made by Mr Armstrong. Do they indeed? Surely the Mods have the IP address of where the posts (plural) emanated from. If it's the same IP address owned by Armstrong then need I say more?
3. "I think it is very unlikely that he would have said these sorts of things." Very unlikely? Not exactly a ringing endorsement for their councillor. Was it very unlikely he said all the other things posted by The Bard of Dunclug, or did he forget to log off on those occasions allowing the 'mystery man' to get working with his fingers?
Nice manoeuvring there. Use one ill-informed prominent GAA member with an axe to grind to discredit his own, helping to brush other comments made by the Bard under the carpet. Right there in microcosm - the manipulation of and by the media to look after their paymasters at the expense of the common man. And now the GAA discussion board is the bad guy. Two easy moves to check, let's hope it's not mate.
McSparran is obviously trying to use this little episode to his own end to silence dissenting voices on how things are run in Antrim GAA. He obviously doesn't like what he reads over at the Antrim Hurling thread. He should be ashamed of himself.
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on October 11, 2008, 10:22:28 AM
McSparran is obviously trying to use this little episode to his own end to silence dissenting voices to how things are run in Antrim GAA. He obviously doesn't like what he reads over at the Antrim Hurling thread. He should be ashamed of himself.
Pitting us against our own, it's a story centuries old.
QuoteDr John McSparran said there was no control over the site, www.gaaboard.com, which meant that anyone could post offensive comments while hiding behind pseudonyms or even using other members' log-in names.
"People can make any kind of statements behind an anonymous name without having to justify themselves," Dr McSparran said.
"We should be entitled to challenge someone who is making accusations about players."
:D
Yes I agree, lets close down the internet, lets close down radio stations that allow callers to call in or newspapers that print readers letters. Actually, lets go one step further and stop all opinion! ::)
If this is who is in charge of Antrim county board no wonder they are in a state!
You've more ability to challenge what's been said on here than you do when they're talking about you in the pubs and clubs in Antrim.
The boul Neil is not answering his landline or mobile phones. I thought he said he was willing to speak to anyone from the board offended by that disgusting comment he didn't post ???
what a fockin idiot armstrong is but i agree with nifan, the board should not take new members for a few days until this dies down. the place will be flooded with fools and wum..
Why should all internet forums be shut down (after all they are all anonymous arent they??) just because a politician made the mistake of putting his name to vile comments on one???
It's time for Orwell's "thought police" to make a return...
Lads will yous stop giving his comments the time of day, you're playing in to Armstrong's hands
Have a laugh (like I did) and move on.
Mc Sparran is my GP !!!!! The compensation cliam is going to be massive !!!!!!!!! ;) ;) :D :D ;D ;D ;D
havent seen many of our owc friends coming out to slate mr armstrong for this. whereare our guardians of morality and righteousness evil genius/sammyg/MW? then we have bignifanatic coming on to give a personal reference for his friend neil. makes me laugh. i wonder how things would pan out if his holiness or t fearon came out and said that they wished some of the contributors to owc should be taken out and shot? me thinks there would be uproar.
bottom line is mr armstrong was caught out. he showed his true colours. even should we forget about his most recent comment he should still be confronted about others comments he has made on this site.
It's a pity they didn't have their homecoming 'celebration' parade to Lanyon Place a week earlier on October 26th.......they could have finished off their celebrations by attending The Wolfe Tones in the Waterfront that night :o
Only noticed this thread now!!
I thought the only story this week was the world's financial system disappearing into some unidentifiable black hole.
But the real story was in Ballymena.
I am not surprised to find a UUP councillor spout bigoted crap, although I am a little surprised that a UUP councillor would be posting on the GAA board. I'm sure his party colleagues are equally surprised! I am, however, shocked at the statement made by John McSparran of the Antrim County Board. The man is clearly not fit to hold office. In one ill timed brainless statement he has turned the tide against a GAA board frequented by GAA members and fans instead of shining the spotlight firmly on an anti gaa muppet from the UUP. I reckon everyone in GAA circles in Antrim should be informed of what this guy has said and the circumstances surrounding it and for the sake of GAA in Antrim he should be booted out of office. Who the f*ck does he think he is, requesting the shut down of a independent GAA board.
McSparran has been waiting his chance to sink the board - he has form in this regard:
From a year ago:
http://www.irishnews.com/searchlog.asp?reason=denied_empty&script_name=/pageacc.asp&path_info=/pageacc.asp&tser1=ser&par=ben&sid=562568
The boys on the Antrim thread better watch out - only say nice things from now on or you'll have the good doctor on your case.
Good research there O'Neill -
Well done today by the way.
Quote from: red hander on October 11, 2008, 11:39:29 AM
The boul Neil is not answering his landline or mobile phones. I thought he said he was willing to speak to anyone from the board offended by that disgusting comment he didn't post ???
Thats funny, I am having lunch overlooking the skyline in Chicago, I picked up my phone and called Neil, lo and behold he answered the call.
For my part, I think a lot of you are very quick to denounce this man for carrying on in this site, you all do it all the time but since he is a protestant he feels that you are hanging him out to dry.
I am away to watch our boys get three valuable world cup points but in the meantime. LEAVE NEIL ALONE!!!!!!
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 07:50:38 PM
Neil is happy to talk to anyone about what he said, what he said was meant in jest and was not meant to cause harm.
So he did say it
Quote from: the green man on October 11, 2008, 07:52:43 PM
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 07:50:38 PM
Neil is happy to talk to anyone about what he said, what he said was meant in jest and was not meant to cause harm.
So he did say it
Say what exactly?
Neil says a lot of things.
Quote from: ONeill on October 11, 2008, 07:00:20 PM
McSparran has been waiting his chance to sink the board - he has form in this regard:
From a year ago:
http://www.irishnews.com/searchlog.asp?reason=denied_empty&script_name=/pageacc.asp&path_info=/pageacc.asp&tser1=ser&par=ben&sid=562568
The boys on the Antrim thread better watch out - only say nice things from now on or you'll have the good doctor on your case.
He can stick his oakley wrap around shades up his hole,the gloves are off.
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 07:58:47 PM
Quote from: the green man on October 11, 2008, 07:52:43 PM
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 07:50:38 PM
Neil is happy to talk to anyone about what he said, what he said was meant in jest and was not meant to cause harm.
So he did say it
Say what exactly?
Neil says a lot of things.
haha. "oops" i hear u cry
I agree with the good doctor. Given the way people on this site shamelessly lambast British citizens in good standing the site should be closed down.
If you knew Neil you would know he is a decent man and leave him alone.
See, I missed the start of our game. Bye Bye.
No one is arguing that he may or may not be a decent man, but he made an incredibly poor lapse in judgement for someone in public office to post the comment and previous comments that he did. You sound ridiculous trying to defend him by saying "leave him alone" and "the board should be closed down". Its the playground defense of a child !
I think since this has gone national now is time for the mods to step in and tell us whether all the bards posts were from the same IP address and also whether there are any other posters on here posting from the same IP address as the bard. I smell something very odd about this, especially with these brainless defences from Bignifanatic. What are the mods afraid of???
Unless I missed something
Can we say for sure that this was indeed the person in question, or at the very least it was him who registered and it was his computer(ip address) that those comments were being posted from?
Surely this is needed before we say anything more. If I was the councilor in question, I would be demanding that this information was made available, so that he could clear his name?
(http://www.da.mod.uk/colleges/rcds/CollegeNews/SHD_MichaelMates.jpg)
Don't let the buggers get you down, Neil
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 07:50:38 PM
Thats funny, I am having lunch overlooking the skyline in Chicago, I picked up my phone and called Neil, lo and behold he answered the call.
Talking a bout funny i'am only a puck of the ball away from there right now. Are you residing here or are you in for the marathon?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 11, 2008, 08:34:29 PM
I think since this has gone national now is time for the mods to step in and tell us whether all the bards posts were from the same IP address and also whether there are any other posters on here posting from the same IP address as the bard. I smell something very odd about this, especially with these brainless defences from Bignifanatic. What are the mods afraid of???
They are afraid of offending the OWC crowd. The Mods need to grow some balls and be honest with genuine patrons who frequent their forums on this issue
Quote from: theskull1 on October 11, 2008, 08:38:06 PM
Unless I missed something
Can we say for sure that this was indeed the person in question, or at the very least it was him who registered and it was his computer(ip address) that those comments were being posted from?
Surely this is needed before we say anything more. If I was the councilor in question, I would be demanding that this information was made available, so that he could clear his name?
Skull, it's his email address and as Fionn pointed out in some thread he would have had to use his address to verify his account - I don't think he's denying the bard is him, just that he's made one of the disgraceful comments.
I don't know what the mods can do?
Bignifanatic, if you're a fan of Armstrong's I suggest you button it because you're making things worse for him.
Are we over reacting a bit here? The shooting comment, I don't really have a problem with. People write things on message boards to get a reaction without actually meaning it. Its the 'priest' comment I'd find more offensive, to be honest.
Quote from: the green man on October 11, 2008, 08:40:40 PM
(http://www.da.mod.uk/colleges/rcds/CollegeNews/SHD_MichaelMates.jpg)
Don't let the buggers get you down, Neil
Think it was more than buggers !!
Quote from: orangeman on October 11, 2008, 09:01:59 PM
Think it was more than buggers !!
I initially had bastards down, but the font of knowledge Wiki said buggers.
If someone does ring this fella will you ask him if he really landed on the moon or was it all a hoax.
Regards,
Laoislad
Quote from: the green man on October 11, 2008, 09:00:23 PM
Are we over reacting a bit here? The shooting comment, I don't really have a problem with. People write things on message boards to get a reaction without actually meaning it. Its the 'priest' comment I'd find more offensive, to be honest.
Assuming he made those comments.....
Offensive ugly prejudiced comments yes. It is a great insight however to hear such commentary come from someone you would expect a more balanced perspective from (him being a "leader" within his community :-\). I think it's fair to use these comments as a finger in the air evaluation to gage just how far hearts and minds need to travel before the north could be considered anywhere close to normal. If large swathes of the unionist community hold those views then I don't quite know what to think ???
Agree with those comments that it is quite unbelievable how this board is being made to be the problem rather than the person making the comments in the first place. Any word of them wanting to find out?
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 07:50:38 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 11, 2008, 11:39:29 AM
The boul Neil is not answering his landline or mobile phones. I thought he said he was willing to speak to anyone from the board offended by that disgusting comment he didn't post ???
Thats funny, I am having lunch overlooking the skyline in Chicago, I picked up my phone and called Neil, lo and behold he answered the call.
For my part, I think a lot of you are very quick to denounce this man for carrying on in this site, you all do it all the time but since he is a protestant he feels that you are hanging him out to dry.
I am away to watch our boys get three valuable world cup points but in the meantime. LEAVE NEIL ALONE!!!!!!
howd that one work out for you? hasnt been the best of weeks, eh?
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 11, 2008, 09:13:32 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 11, 2008, 09:09:23 PM
If someone does ring this fella will you ask him if he really landed on the moon or was it all a hoax.
Regards,
Laoislad
While we're on the subject LL, you might want to change the link to your "webpage" before any complaints could come in... :o
Christ how did that link get there? I think I left my laptop unattended and someone put it there
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 11, 2008, 09:34:24 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 11, 2008, 09:20:02 PMAgree with those comments that it is quite unbelievable how this board is being made to be the problem rather than the person making the comments in the first place. Any word of them wanting to find out?
Remember, guns don't kill people...
Rappers do.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 11, 2008, 10:32:45 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 11, 2008, 09:34:24 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 11, 2008, 09:20:02 PMAgree with those comments that it is quite unbelievable how this board is being made to be the problem rather than the person making the comments in the first place. Any word of them wanting to find out?
Remember, guns don't kill people...
Rappers do.
Rabbits do
Damn and blast, we held out until five minutes from the end, in fact we should have scored a hatful before they scored twice at the end of the game.
Very disappointing result but we will continue to fight and hopefully we can qualify yet.
Today has been a rough day, I wish I was at home to take care of my friend who so many of you wish to destroy.
After some of the filth Fearon has posted here and what some of you have said about OWC and their members I find that this board has more than it's fair share of intolerant people.
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 10:42:47 PM
Damn and blast, we held out until five minutes from the end, in fact we should have scored a hatful before they scored twice at the end of the game.
Very disappointing result but we will continue to fight and hopefully we can qualify yet.
Today has been a rough day, I wish I was at home to take care of my friend who so many of you wish to destroy.
After some of the filth Fearon has posted here and what some of you have said about OWC and their members I find that this board has more than it's fair share of intolerant people.
(http://www.etcmag.co.uk/photos/Lou-and-Andy_LB_BBC.jpg)
Quote from: Minder on October 11, 2008, 10:45:42 PM
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 10:42:47 PM
Damn and blast, we held out until five minutes from the end, in fact we should have scored a hatful before they scored twice at the end of the game.
Very disappointing result but we will continue to fight and hopefully we can qualify yet.
Today has been a rough day, I wish I was at home to take care of my friend who so many of you wish to destroy.
After some of the filth Fearon has posted here and what some of you have said about OWC and their members I find that this board has more than it's fair share of intolerant people.
(http://www.etcmag.co.uk/photos/Lou-and-Andy_LB_BBC.jpg)
Where did you find that picture of Ziggy and Hardstation?
FBI 10 most wanted
Quote from: Minder on October 11, 2008, 10:45:42 PM
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 10:42:47 PM
Damn and blast, we held out until five minutes from the end, in fact we should have scored a hatful before they scored twice at the end of the game.
Very disappointing result but we will continue to fight and hopefully we can qualify yet.
Today has been a rough day, I wish I was at home to take care of my friend who so many of you wish to destroy.
After some of the filth Fearon has posted here and what some of you have said about OWC and their members I find that this board has more than it's fair share of intolerant people.
(http://www.etcmag.co.uk/photos/Lou-and-Andy_LB_BBC.jpg)
:D :D :D
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 07:50:38 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 11, 2008, 11:39:29 AM
The boul Neil is not answering his landline or mobile phones. I thought he said he was willing to speak to anyone from the board offended by that disgusting comment he didn't post ???
Thats funny, I am having lunch overlooking the skyline in Chicago, I picked up my phone and called Neil, lo and behold he answered the call.
For my part, I think a lot of you are very quick to denounce this man for carrying on in this site, you all do it all the time but since he is a protestant he feels that you are hanging him out to dry.
I am away to watch our boys get three valuable world cup points but in the meantime. LEAVE NEIL ALONE!!!!!!
Poorly edited. A massive gap missing in the middle.
Exactly Mid Louth, the "Antrim Hurling Thread" would probably make his eyes water (shit i forgot he has been monitoring it lately), basically if it is a shit we call it a shit, Im not sure what he wants, some sort of media blackout if you are criticising Aontroim? Everyone that posts on the Antrim hurling thread wants the best for Antrim hurling but they also want certain people to be held accountable.......perhaps thats where the problem is.
Quote from: theskull1 on October 11, 2008, 09:20:02 PM
Quote from: the green man on October 11, 2008, 09:00:23 PM
Are we over reacting a bit here? The shooting comment, I don't really have a problem with. People write things on message boards to get a reaction without actually meaning it. Its the 'priest' comment I'd find more offensive, to be honest.
Assuming he made those comments.....
Offensive ugly prejudiced comments yes. It is a great insight however to hear such commentary come from someone you would expect a more balanced perspective from (him being a "leader" within his community :-\). I think it's fair to use these comments as a finger in the air evaluation to gage just how far hearts and minds need to travel before the north could be considered anywhere close to normal. If large swathes of the unionist community hold those views then I don't quite know what to think ???
Agree with those comments that it is quite unbelievable how this board is being made to be the problem rather than the person making the comments in the first place. Any word of them wanting to find out?
Almost everyone on this site purports to be against bigotry of all kinds and that only themmuns are bigots. In light of that would any board members (OWCers excepted) have been running to the papers if it was discovered that a Sinn Fein councillor was on here making equally disparaging comments about themmuns? I think it would be safe to say we know the answer to that one! Remember the one about people living in glass houses ;)
Exactly Tony, i actually think a few of them came in their y fronts. Did you get my PM?
I got your message and pm. Heading to the pit now. It's alright for a boy like you...
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2008, 12:41:47 AM
I got your message and pm. Heading to the pit now. It's alright for a boy like you...
Die mother f**ker
After being told of McSparrans comments today (some of us still don't buy that rag John after they shit all over the funeral of an Antrim gael, do you not remember?, but enough of that) I tried to call Mr Armstrong with a view to deleting this thread if I got a reasonable explanation. Neither of the numbers Mr Armstrong provided nor the UUP offices were answering.
I'm not surprised that unionist politicians hold such opinions but I'm disgusted that when exposed the so called independent media don't hold them to account. Fair play to the Belfast Tele, the paper that wouldn't put a GAA story on the back page, is the one that asks the most probing questions.
What Antrim gael Donah?
Quote from: Minder on October 12, 2008, 12:51:38 AM
What Antrim gael Donah?
Best not brought up again in detail Minder but the IN cynically cast the sins of the father onto the son (at his wake). They never forgave Dinny Cahill for making a principled stand against them by refusing interviews.
Quote from: Donagh on October 12, 2008, 01:17:50 AM
Quote from: Minder on October 12, 2008, 12:51:38 AM
What Antrim gael Donah?
Best not brought up again in detail Minder but the IN cynically cast the sins of the father onto the son (at his wake). They never forgave Dinny Cahill for making a principled stand against them by refusing interviews.
PM then Donagh, im intrigued
Mental.
Quote from: Minder on October 12, 2008, 01:19:35 AM
Quote from: Donagh on October 12, 2008, 01:17:50 AM
Quote from: Minder on October 12, 2008, 12:51:38 AM
What Antrim gael Donah?
Best not brought up again in detail Minder but the IN cynically cast the sins of the father onto the son (at his wake). They never forgave Dinny Cahill for making a principled stand against them by refusing interviews.
PM then Donagh, im intrigued
Sent
bignifanatic your attempts to support mr armstrong are pathetic. to say anyones death ould 'cause me great pleasure' is sick to say the least. how you try to make out that he somehow 'didn't really mean it' is a bit disgusting. it is clear from mr armstrongs previous posts what his agenda is (was) on this board, to me and many others it isnt really capable of being defended.
but thats right, neil isnt a bad lad. we should just forget about it and leave him alone. (by the way, i could see the outrage there would be had an sdlp elected representative made the comments)
mr armstrong is a bigot belonging to a bygone age and your attempts to appease the situation are laughable to say the least.
the only problem with i have with this board at the minute is that the mods havent been acting in a transparent nature.
Quote from: Donagh on October 12, 2008, 12:48:06 AM
I'm not surprised that unionist politicians hold such opinions but I'm disgusted that when exposed the so called independent media don't hold them to account. Fair play to the Belfast Tele, the paper that wouldn't put a GAA story on the back page, is the one that asks the most probing questions.
What probing questions did the Belfast Tele ask?
Quote from: Donagh on October 12, 2008, 12:48:06 AM
I'm not surprised that unionist politicians hold such opinions but I'm disgusted that when exposed the so called independent media don't hold them to account. Fair play to the Belfast Tele, the paper that wouldn't put a GAA story on the back page, is the one that asks the most probing questions.
They do now.
Quote from: Main Street on October 12, 2008, 12:58:13 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 12, 2008, 12:48:06 AM
I'm not surprised that unionist politicians hold such opinions but I'm disgusted that when exposed the so called independent media don't hold them to account. Fair play to the Belfast Tele, the paper that wouldn't put a GAA story on the back page, is the one that asks the most probing questions.
What probing questions did the Belfast Tele ask?
See here:
Quote from: red hander on October 10, 2008, 10:39:41 AM
From today's Belfast Telegraph:
Councillor denies forum slur
I've been set up says Ulster Unionist over offensive comments on GAA website
BY LESLEY-ANNE HENRY
lhenry@belfasttelegraph.co.uk
AN ULSTER Unionist councillor today denied posting offensive comments on a GAA discussion forum.
Neill Armstrong, a member of Ballymena Council, claimed an opportunist used his name and password to post the abusive remarks during an online conversation about next month's Royal Irish Regiment parade.
The discussion, entitled 'Irish mercenaries and unionist coat trailers', took place on the gaaboard.com website on Wednesday afternoon.
At about 3.20pm a controversial comment was posted from Mr Armstrong's username "The bard of dunclug". It read: "It's a real pity that the Army whilst they were in Northern Ireland hadn't taken some of the recent contributors to his thread out and killed them, that would have caused me real pleasure."
The post was in response to a previous comment which read: "As for the loyal Irish soldiers having a parade in Belfast, that is disgusting and unacceptable, the Parades Commission is toothless for the most part."
Just over half an hour later, at 4.01pm, Mr Armstrong intervened to say that someone had sabotaged his web address.
Mr Armstrong, a public representative of eight years experience, admitted he had been logged on to the Gaelic sports site earlier in the day, but said he had "forgotten to log out properly".
He wrote: "Hi, this is Neil Armstrong — it has been reported to me that someone has been using my name and password to type comments on the forums and first and foremost I never typed these comments. I must have left the general discussion page open when I left a computer I was using. I strongly condemn anybody who wishes violence on anybody and I would condemn anybody who has made these remarks. Neill."
Speaking to the Belfast Telegraph, Mr Armstrong said he had been set up and that his reputation had been "run into the ground and covered in muck" by the incident.
"I just didn't log off. I fully expected to be dragged through the coal. It was a simple error. People just believe the absolute worst of you. I am absolutely gutted. I really am. I have got up and I have said anybody on the noticeboard who wants to contact me, can. All I ask is to be judged on what I have done over the last eight years.
"I have gone on the noticeboard when someone told me what was said and I have condemned it unreservedly.
"This is what really aggravates me, if I had wanted to say something really controversial, I could be doing that every five minutes on it, couldn't I? This is what irks me because no matter what I say or do, I am an Ulster Unionist councillor, therefore I am going to be guilty anyway aren't I?
"I am hurt and disappointed. I am not trying to hide anything. This has broken my heart."
Mr Neill declined to say where he had been using the computer.
"I don't know who you contact about these sorts of things. The reality is if I contact a solicitor and people put these things on the board, what can you do?"
"I am taking steps and when I get the person who did it, I will give his or her name and I will get this sorted. But I am not really at liberty to give away the address. All I am saying is just give me a fair crack of the whip."
Thanks Maguire but I don't see the probing questions asked, that Donagh referred to, in the article.
Quote from: sledge hammer on October 12, 2008, 11:55:17 AM
bignifanatic your attempts to support mr armstrong are pathetic. to say anyones death ould 'cause me great pleasure' is sick to say the least. how you try to make out that he somehow 'didn't really mean it' is a bit disgusting. it is clear from mr armstrongs previous posts what his agenda is (was) on this board, to me and many others it isnt really capable of being defended.
but thats right, neil isnt a bad lad. we should just forget about it and leave him alone. (by the way, i could see the outrage there would be had an sdlp elected representative made the comments)
mr armstrong is a bigot belonging to a bygone age and your attempts to appease the situation are laughable to say the least.
the only problem with i have with this board at the minute is that the mods havent been acting in a transparent nature.
Grand so, you'll have no problem then with the Mods putting your name as the legally responsible owner of this site then? For trivial legal reasons and the like.
usual oul sihte but this time one was caught out.
two apologists (one the usual suspect nifan) were 'making the case' that it may very well have been someone else that posted this after the sectarian mr armstrong had 'left his computer unattended'.
While this is 'possible' - the one escape chance that armstrong and nifan & bignifan cling to - its highly unlikely.
Even if it was, it does not clear the guy from his previous sectarian bigoted posts on here.
he was consistent in his sectarian bile previously (while demonstrating a half witted grasp of reality) so the contentious post
is hard to dismiss as the work of another person.
it was easy for the bard to hide behind his computer screen making such threats and bigoted comments, until his stupidity caused his cloak of anonimity to fall !
as for these claims that moderators 'have doubts whether it was he or not' thats bollix - the mods have said they didnt know - effectively as they had not conducted any admin query on the origins of the post ip address etc so couldnt say either way - that does not say they have doubts or that there is any proof yet leading us to believe that the ip add was or was not belonging to armstrong.
compelling electronic evidence against him to be honest I'd say - despits what the usual apologist/'equalisers' are trying to water down and claim ! ::)
when i exit from this forum and go back to it several hours later, i am still logged in under my account, so it is possible that this is what has happened to neil armstrong. however it is more likely that armstrong left the comment himself as bignifanatic said he did and i think it was o'neill gave us a list of previous comments of a similar nature (though not as extreme) left by the bard
How come bignifanatic stated on this board that the moonman did post the offensive message and then edited his message deleting that part.
Bignifanatic, did Armstrong post the message or not?
By the way, your support of this man makes you as bad as he is in my opinion.
Quote from: stew on October 12, 2008, 04:30:30 PM
How come bignifanatic stated on this board that the moonman did post the offensive message and then edited his message deleting that part.
Bignifanatic, did Armstrong post the message or not?
By the way, your support of this man makes you as bad as he is in my opinion.
His name is Neil and i am quite sure he has never visited our nearest neighbour in the cosmos.
I did delete something in a post however i do not believe I ever wrote that Neil did it.
Neil said something out loud as he was horrified at some of the posts on that thread and what he said was twisted and distorted and posted by a person or persons unknown at this time and he is very, very upset about it.
Neil has his suspicions as to who posted the message and he is working with the police and also with a very well know QC who he is convinced will see that he is completely exonerated from blame in this situation.
Again, I am disappointed that Neil is involved in this at all, that he is involved is an embarassment to those of us that love him and for what he stands for. I will also say that there was provocation here and that said person or persons reacted to that provocation.
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 12, 2008, 04:44:19 PM
Quote from: stew on October 12, 2008, 04:30:30 PM
How come bignifanatic stated on this board that the moonman did post the offensive message and then edited his message deleting that part.
Bignifanatic, did Armstrong post the message or not?
By the way, your support of this man makes you as bad as he is in my opinion.
His name is Neil and i am quite sure he has never visited our nearest neighbour in the cosmos.
I did delete something in a post however i do not believe I ever wrote that Neil did it.
Neil said something out loud as he was horrified at some of the posts on that thread and what he said was twisted and distorted and posted by a person or persons unknown at this time and he is very, very upset about it.
Neil has his suspicions as to who posted the message and he is working with the police and also with a very well know QC who he is convinced will see that he is completely exonerated from blame in this situation.
Again, I am disappointed that Neil is involved in this at all, that he is involved is an embarassment to those of us that love him and for what he stands for. I will also say that there was PROVOcation here and that said person or persons reacted to that PROVOcation.
Very existential bignifanatic.
So Neil is going to sue somebody to clear his name blah blah blah. the fact that he can hire a big shot barrister just tells me that he is as guilty as feck, and at the very least, guilty of stupidity, however i suspect it is a lot more than stupidity.
You did post that he did it, I saw it and hopefully others did too.
And now it is the fault of the PROVO'S :D :D :D :D :D you couldnt make it up.
here, what Hotel are you staying at in Chicago, I wouldnt mind meeting you for a pint to discuss the issue of the day. ;)
Another Paul Berry situation.
Deny deny deny and then get caught out.....
you said that neil said it bignifanatic. denying it now just makes his denial look equally weak
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 12, 2008, 04:44:19 PM
AI will also say that there was PROVOcation here and that said person or persons reacted to that PROVOcation.
That is pure and utter bigotry.
The police are working on it? Lets say for a minute someone else did post using your mates username what exactly do the police plan on charging him with? ::) what crime was committed?
Are you talking shite?
Why did you say Neill said it?
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 12, 2008, 04:44:19 PM
Quote from: stew on October 12, 2008, 04:30:30 PM
How come bignifanatic stated on this board that the moonman did post the offensive message and then edited his message deleting that part.
Bignifanatic, did Armstrong post the message or not?
By the way, your support of this man makes you as bad as he is in my opinion.
I will also say that there was PROVOcation here and that said person or persons reacted to that PROVOcation.
Absolutely pathetic.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 12, 2008, 04:55:08 PM
Why did you say Neill said it?
Because Big NI fanatic believed that was something Neil would say and as Big Nif claims, he knows Neils every inner thought.
Bigni if you were really his friend you'd be advised to butt out of this thread as you are digging an even deeper hole for him!
I hear Joe Brolly is available if he is looking for a good barrister ;)
DISCLAIMER: This post is a work of fiction and is based solely on the (twisted) imagination of the author. Any similarity to persons living or brain-dead is purely coincidental, and exists solely in the mind of the reader. Should I be accused of composing this post, I will deny it and claim person or impersonators unknown did it while I was momentarily distracted.
Ring-Ring Ring-Ring Ring-Ring
- Hello?
- Hello. Jock Mocksporran here, Commander of Antrim GGA. Is this Councillor Noel Amstrad?
- Yes. I mean no. Ahh ... what ... who?
- John Mickspartan. I wanted to talk to you about the GAA discussion board.
- Talk to who?
- Councillor Ned Ormstrod.
- Ah ... right. Well I'm not here. I mean he's not here at the minute. Somebody else is using my phone. His phone.
- Are you the "somebody else"?
- Ahh ... I suppose so. Yes. Maybe.
- Right, well I just wanted to say that, as Commodore-in-Chief of the Antrim GGA, I sympathise with you on your disgraceful treatment on the GAA discussion board.
- Right. Well thanks very much. I appreciate that. I mean on behalf of the Councillor, y'know.
- Not at all. We here in Antrim GGA know you didn't make those comments about wanting people shot.
- I didn't? I mean he didn't? Yes – no I ... he didn't. No. Definitely not. I'm heartbroken, sure.
- Niall, you and me have more in common than you think. I'm a crusader. I want you to join my crusade.
- Crusader? I thought the like of you priest-ridden taigs who should all have been shot ... Sorry. Sorry. That was somebody else there on the phone for a second. Go away other bad man from my phone. I thought you'd be more of a Cliftonville man, y'know?
- What? Listen. You and me should work together to shut down that bloody internet chat yoke.
- Did I mention I'm heart-broken? And my wife ... the wife's counsellor ... the councillor's wife, I mean.
- I know, I know. Listen. That interweb chat-up thing is a menace. We should work together. You clearly have the technical expertise and I can work from the inside. I want to propose that the Antrim GGA and your party form a united front.
- United? I'd be a Rangers man myself. But I've been run into the ground, dy'know? And covered in muck, as well. And dragged through the coal. I'm telling ye, if I wasn't an Ulster Onanist councillor ... which I'm not, of course ... but I mean the councillor that owns my computer and phone. It's not fair. Suggest someone should be shot and people just believe the absolute worst of you ...
- Yes, yes. Look – what do you say we shut down the whole feckin internet? Wha?
- You're starting to cause me real pleasure, d'ye know that? Can we shoot someone?
- First things first. Where's the plug for that internet? Somewhere in America I think. We'll buy the tickets.
- Who can I shoot? When?
- You and me's going to make a great team, Ned. A great team.
Some of bignifanatics' posts bear a striking resemblance to some of the boul Bards' posts, in terms of grammar etc. Hmm...was also at pains to inform us he was in Chicago...hmmm
The Board should be in line to receive some civic awards.
How about,
the 'discussion board scoop of the year' award.
The 'thread that made the most newspaper headlines' award.
The 'Nelson Mandela Most Successfull Outing of a Repressed Bigot' award
QuoteCan't see how the board could be implicated though i assume there are posts which I didn't see where the bard true identity is "outed". Can't think how you could sue for this. Possible breach of privacy but I think its very unlikely.
The Bard had the email address "cllrneillarmstrong@hotmail.com" for public viewing on his profile :D Can't see a legal case there.
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 07:50:38 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 11, 2008, 11:39:29 AM
The boul Neil is not answering his landline or mobile phones. I thought he said he was willing to speak to anyone from the board offended by that disgusting comment he didn't post ???
Thats funny, I am having lunch overlooking the skyline in Chicago, I picked up my phone and called Neil, lo and behold he answered the call.
For my part, I think a lot of you are very quick to denounce this man for carrying on in this site, you all do it all the time but since he is a protestant he feels that you are hanging him out to dry.
I am away to watch our boys get three valuable world cup points but in the meantime. LEAVE NEIL ALONE!!!!!!
That's funny, in a previous post you boasted he was a big pal of yours, so it's no stretch to suggest he's got your number on his mobile and when you rang your name flashed up, so he knew it wasn't an uppity Fenian like myself who he invited to call him to discuss the disgraceful comment(s) he didn't post and is now refusing to discuss ... Chicago? That's where the gangsters came from, isn't it? BTW, Congrats to the mighty Slovenia who 'killed' the statelet, the last 10 minutes of that game ... as the boul Neil would say ... gave me great pleasure indeed
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 12, 2008, 05:43:12 PM
QuoteCan't see how the board could be implicated though i assume there are posts which I didn't see where the bard true identity is "outed". Can't think how you could sue for this. Possible breach of privacy but I think its very unlikely.
The Bard had the email address "cllrneillarmstrong@hotmail.com" for public viewing on his profile :D Can't see a legal case there.
Right enough. And he's since admitted that is his email address hasn't he?
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 12, 2008, 05:46:57 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 12, 2008, 05:43:12 PM
QuoteCan't see how the board could be implicated though i assume there are posts which I didn't see where the bard true identity is "outed". Can't think how you could sue for this. Possible breach of privacy but I think its very unlikely.
The Bard had the email address "cllrneillarmstrong@hotmail.com" for public viewing on his profile :D Can't see a legal case there.
Right enough. And he's since admitted that is his email address hasn't he?
Well an fear rua put up something from some website that lists it as a contact address. He's never denied it wasn't him making the other comments.
It's even made the football365 site
http://forum.football365.com/index.php?t=msg&th=136629&start=0&
Quote from: Two Hands FFS on October 12, 2008, 07:52:34 PM
It's even made the football365 site
http://forum.football365.com/index.php?t=msg&th=136629&start=0&
QuoteThe Bard of Dunclug [message #4728288] Sun, 12 October 2008 19:48
Veritas
Messages: 859
Registered: January 2008
Location: . Geekstinkbreath
Quote:
AN Ulster Unionist councillor has said his life has been ruined by someone impersonating him to make violent and sectarian comments on a GAA website.
Neil Armstrong, a member of Ballymena Borough Council, has had his reputation damaged by the remarks which he made clear were not made by him.
He said he had previously contributed to the www.gaaboard.com site, under the name the Bard of Dunclug, engaging in debates about the GAA and political affairs.
But this week postings began appearing in his own name, talking about killing people who contributed to the site and the "pleasure" this would involve.
Mr Armstrong - who is known inside the UUP for his liberal and non sectarian views, and an easy-going nature - said: "i honestly don't know who would do this.
"Anyone who knows me in Ballymena, whether they are nationalist or unionist, knows this is not me.
"It has just ruined my life."
The full article contains 163 words and appears in n/a newspaper.
Posted less than 5 minutes before you posting here......suspicious, very suspicious.
Definately not myself :D
Damage limitation from Neill, so he now doesnt deny the previous posts in which he "engaged in debate" by asking why Celtic fans dont go back home as the famine is over, and other vile comments about paedophilia among other topics.
He just hopes these comments arent also picked up by the media as he cant deny them.
Sounds like a desperate, desperate man.
Even without the death post, which was quite obviously written by the same person as the previous posts, which he doesnt deny was him!!, the others dont exactly show him to be the open minded liberal his mates would have us believe.
Guilty as f**k!
In what way hardstation?
Hard to know HS - a bit of initial confusion I suppose.
I remember smashing the wife's favourite plate one morning. I could hear her coming down the stairs and in sheer panic I set myself on fire on purpose to deflect attention.
Quote from: ONeill on October 12, 2008, 08:53:08 PM
Hard to know HS - a bit of initial confusion I suppose.
I remember smashing the wife's favourite plate one morning. I could hear her coming down the stairs and in sheer panic I set myself on fire on purpose to deflect attention.
Did she notice you?
Just saw this on official Antrim website guestbook......
Name : Full Of ??? 11 October 2008
Just to let Doctor........
Reply :You might well get away with posting this type of crap on another webiste that allows this sort of nonsense, but it wont happen here. This sort of vile and filthy abuse is not tolerated on this site or any other forum that exerts even a modicum of control over what is posted. Contemptible, anonymous lunatics like you are the cause of serious personal abuse and unacceptable pressures on players, coaches and managers. Their family lives have been affected by some of the comments posted on "GAABoard" and the County Chairman called for this website to be shut down in his speech to convention last year. We are certain that if you were prepared to identify yourself, he would gladly let you know exactly the harm that has been done to individuals and families as result of comments posted on this wewbsite. Undoubtedly a coward like you won't do that!
What was posted to spark that reply?
(this is all getting to be mad craic!)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 12, 2008, 09:26:26 PM
What was posted to spark that reply?
(this is all getting to be mad craic!)
Dunno as it was all edited, Mc Sparran does quite lot of the replies on that guestbook & replies like that are very common
The reples on the official Antrim website are hilarious. They always sound like the person writing them is foaming at the mouth. Who does the county chairman think he is, asking for an independent website to be shut down?
"Contemptible, anonymous lunatics....." :D :D :D :D
Quote from: sledge hammer on October 11, 2008, 04:14:20 PM
havent seen many of our owc friends coming out to slate mr armstrong for this. whereare our guardians of morality and righteousness evil genius/sammyg/MW?
Believe it or not old son, I don't read anything like all the threads on this forum. Having glanced at the first page I decided I didn't have the inclination to get involved in what looked like a fairly predictable thread. Have only come back to it thanks to the media attention. Fairly mind-boggling it is too having read it, and if it was indeed Cllr Armstrong who made these reprehensible remarks he should resign his council seat and be disciplined by his party.
"Guardian of morality and righeousness", BTW...aye, alright :D
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 12, 2008, 04:44:19 PM
AI will also say that there was PROVOcation here and that said person or persons reacted to that PROVOcation.
That is a worse line than any of our self-styled bard's. With friends like you taking up his case, Cllr Armstrong certainly doesn't need enemies.
Now, when you do get home from Chicago and when you do call round to Cllr. Armstrong's for a jolly chin wag, here's a DVD the two of you could watch.
(http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/film_images/dumb_and_dumber_dvd_film_cover.jpg)
Quote from: MW on October 12, 2008, 10:57:27 PM
Fairly mind-boggling it is too having read it, and if it was indeed Cllr Armstrong who made these reprehensible remarks he should resign his council seat and be disciplined by his party.
If you are talking about all of the Bard's posts then fair play to you MW
Quote from: Minder on October 12, 2008, 09:23:05 PM
Just saw this on official Antrim website guestbook......
Name : Full Of ??? 11 October 2008
Just to let Doctor........
Reply :You might well get away with posting this type of crap on another webiste that allows this sort of nonsense, but it wont happen here. This sort of vile and filthy abuse is not tolerated on this site or any other forum that exerts even a modicum of control over what is posted. Contemptible, anonymous lunatics like you are the cause of serious personal abuse and unacceptable pressures on players, coaches and managers. Their family lives have been affected by some of the comments posted on "GAABoard" and the County Chairman called for this website to be shut down in his speech to convention last year. We are certain that if you were prepared to identify yourself, he would gladly let you know exactly the harm that has been done to individuals and families as result of comments posted on this wewbsite. Undoubtedly a coward like you won't do that!
This post and reply have now been removed from the guestbook...........mysterious
Quote from: Minder on October 13, 2008, 10:27:52 AM
Quote from: Minder on October 12, 2008, 09:23:05 PM
Just saw this on official Antrim website guestbook......
Name : Full Of ??? 11 October 2008
Just to let Doctor........
Reply :You might well get away with posting this type of crap on another webiste that allows this sort of nonsense, but it wont happen here. This sort of vile and filthy abuse is not tolerated on this site or any other forum that exerts even a modicum of control over what is posted. Contemptible, anonymous lunatics like you are the cause of serious personal abuse and unacceptable pressures on players, coaches and managers. Their family lives have been affected by some of the comments posted on "GAABoard" and the County Chairman called for this website to be shut down in his speech to convention last year. We are certain that if you were prepared to identify yourself, he would gladly let you know exactly the harm that has been done to individuals and families as result of comments posted on this wewbsite. Undoubtedly a coward like you won't do that!
This post and reply have now been removed from the guestbook...........mysterious
What's going on here ????????
Quote from: ONeill on October 12, 2008, 08:53:08 PM
Hard to know HS - a bit of initial confusion I suppose.
I remember smashing the wife's favourite plate one morning. I could hear her coming down the stairs and in sheer panic I set myself on fire on purpose to deflect attention.
Did you do thr Stop, drop and roll?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 12, 2008, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 12, 2008, 05:46:57 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 12, 2008, 05:43:12 PM
QuoteCan't see how the board could be implicated though i assume there are posts which I didn't see where the bard true identity is "outed". Can't think how you could sue for this. Possible breach of privacy but I think its very unlikely.
The Bard had the email address "cllrneillarmstrong@hotmail.com" for public viewing on his profile :D Can't see a legal case there.
Right enough. And he's since admitted that is his email address hasn't he?
Well an fear rua put up something from some website that lists it as a contact address. He's never denied it wasn't him making the other comments.
http://www.ballymena.gov.uk/infocus/Ballymena%20In%20Focus%20Winter%2005.pdf (http://www.ballymena.gov.uk/infocus/Ballymena%20In%20Focus%20Winter%2005.pdf)
I can only presume from the deathly silence on here and in the media that the councillor does not deny posting the famine or paedophelia comments on here, just the death ones??
Surely he can clarify this??
The silence is deafening.
We wont let this go Neill.
This thread has definately got the attention of the OWC too, I see blast from the past Roger is back.
Welcome back!!!
It's a f**king joke
As I said before, if it was the SDLP or SF there would be f**king uproar
Some things never change - eh :-\
"This thread has definately got the attention of the OWC too, I see blast from the past Roger is back."
:D
I usually check in on this board from time to time. Don't post though. I was only on to post about a tits and a pussy. Couldn't resist.
Thanks for the welcome mind.
someone logged into my email and emailed all the posts to Citybeat
Citybeat called him up for comment but he didn't want it to be on the radio and his solicitor would be in touch if any comments were used
Silence is golden as far as Neill is concerned ! ;)
Quote from: Roger on October 13, 2008, 02:06:58 PM
I was only on to post about a tits and a pussy
Gotta admit, it was a hard one to resist!
I note that Mr Armstrong spells his first name with a double l, as in Neill, rather than the more usual Neil.
Second page lads, ffs.
It was spelled with 2 LLs on both the e-mail address on here, and the one on the website.
They havent changed it since have they?
Quote from: red hander on October 12, 2008, 05:44:22 PM
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 11, 2008, 07:50:38 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 11, 2008, 11:39:29 AM
The boul Neil is not answering his landline or mobile phones. I thought he said he was willing to speak to anyone from the board offended by that disgusting comment he didn't post ???
Thats funny, I am having lunch overlooking the skyline in Chicago, I picked up my phone and called Neil, lo and behold he answered the call.
For my part, I think a lot of you are very quick to denounce this man for carrying on in this site, you all do it all the time but since he is a protestant he feels that you are hanging him out to dry.
I am away to watch our boys get three valuable world cup points but in the meantime. LEAVE NEIL ALONE!!!!!!
That's funny, in a previous post you boasted he was a big pal of yours, so it's no stretch to suggest he's got your number on his mobile and when you rang your name flashed up, so he knew it wasn't an uppity Fenian like myself who he invited to call him to discuss the disgraceful comment(s) he didn't post and is now refusing to discuss ... Chicago? That's where the gangsters came from, isn't it? BTW, Congrats to the mighty Slovenia who 'killed' the statelet, the last 10 minutes of that game ... as the boul Neil would say ... gave me great pleasure indeed
" Congrats to the mighty Slovenia who 'killed' the statelet, the last 10 minutes of that game " ;D ;D ;D
Anyone get talking to the bard of yet?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 14, 2008, 08:26:24 AM
Anyone get talking to the bard of yet?
Seems he's on holidays ! ;)
Few owcers seem to be on holiday as well :-\
I never bother too much with the political threads on here too much (See Fionn's comments). I have not seen any of the papers to prompt me, but wondered how the fook is this thread at 20 odd pages, and as an aside I wondered who the feck is this Neil Armstrong that is getting mentioned on other threads.
Now I know :D
PS... I am crap at English, but I do know that I, as in me, should be a biggun and not a weeun.
Quote from: full back on October 14, 2008, 09:15:13 AM
Few owcers seem to be on holiday as well :-\
Not sure what it has to do with OWC?
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:07:52 PM
Not sure what it has to do with OWC?
He's one of you - would his views be typical of the average OWC supporter?
If it was an SDLP or SF councillor there would be an influx of posts from OWCers
Anyone who says different is full of sh1t
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:13:06 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:07:52 PM
Not sure what it has to do with OWC?
He's one of you - would his views be typical of the average OWC supporter?
I didn't know he was one of me :o
http://www.ballymenatimes.com/news/Armstrong-wont-give-up-Council.4586772.jp (http://www.ballymenatimes.com/news/Armstrong-wont-give-up-Council.4586772.jp)
Armstrong won't give up Council post
"This has caused myself and my family great distress but I am now determined that I will not be driven from office "
Cllr. Neill Armstrong
13 October 2008
By Des Blackadder
BALLYMENA Councillor Neill Armstrong has pledged to continue his political career despite being at the centre of a 'distressing' internet impersonation scam last week.
The UUP representative admitted he had been stunned and angered when he was made aware that he was being impersonated on a GAA web site by someone making 'outrageous and inflammatory comments' under his name.
Cllr. Armstrong, who represents Ballymena North, told the Times: "I have no idea who is doing this or what their motives are and I immediately requested that the comments be removed, which I understand has been done.
"I would wish to completely disassociate myself from the comments which in no way reflect my views. I am happy to stand on my public record as a councillor over the past eight years where I have treated all constituents equally and have always opposed violence or extremism in any form."
He added: "This has caused myself and my family great distress but I am now determined that I will not be driven from office by bigots from whatever quarter and will continue to serve people from all sections of the community in Ballymena equally."
The full article contains 197 words and appears in n/a newspaper.
Page 1 of 1
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:13:06 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:07:52 PM
Not sure what it has to do with OWC?
He's one of you - would his views be typical of the average OWC supporter?
I didn't know he was one of me :o
Sorry, meant to include this link with that:
http://uk.myspace.com/votearmstrong1 (http://uk.myspace.com/votearmstrong1)
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:13:06 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:07:52 PM
Not sure what it has to do with OWC?
He's one of you - would his views be typical of the average OWC supporter?
I didn't know he was one of me :o
Sorry, meant to include this link with that:
http://uk.myspace.com/votearmstrong1 (http://uk.myspace.com/votearmstrong1)
I've recently taken up golf but wouldn't say I was an avid golfer. I still think some reflection and soul searching is required on my part right enough.
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:20:03 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:13:06 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:07:52 PM
Not sure what it has to do with OWC?
He's one of you - would his views be typical of the average OWC supporter?
I didn't know he was one of me :o
Sorry, meant to include this link with that:
http://uk.myspace.com/votearmstrong1 (http://uk.myspace.com/votearmstrong1)
I've recently taken up golf but wouldn't say I was an avid golfer. I still think some reflection and soul searching is required on my part right enough.
would his views be typical of the average OWC supporter?
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:15:46 PM
http://www.ballymenatimes.com/news/Armstrong-wont-give-up-Council.4586772.jp (http://www.ballymenatimes.com/news/Armstrong-wont-give-up-Council.4586772.jp)
Armstrong won't give up Council post
"This has caused myself and my family great distress but I am now determined that I will not be driven from office "
Cllr. Neill Armstrong
13 October 2008
By Des Blackadder
BALLYMENA Councillor Neill Armstrong has pledged to continue his political career despite being at the centre of a 'distressing' internet impersonation scam last week.
The UUP representative admitted he had been stunned and angered when he was made aware that he was being impersonated on a GAA web site by someone making 'outrageous and inflammatory comments' under his name.
Cllr. Armstrong, who represents Ballymena North, told the Times: "I have no idea who is doing this or what their motives are and I immediately requested that the comments be removed, which I understand has been done.
"I would wish to completely disassociate myself from the comments which in no way reflect my views. I am happy to stand on my public record as a councillor over the past eight years where I have treated all constituents equally and have always opposed violence or extremism in any form."
He added: "This has caused myself and my family great distress but I am now determined that I will not be driven from office by bigots from whatever quarter and will continue to serve people from all sections of the community in Ballymena equally."
The full article contains 197 words and appears in n/a newspaper.
Page 1 of 1
Why the fcuk wont anyone ask him about the other comments? (bar the NL, who touched on it)
Quote from: full back on October 14, 2008, 12:28:36 PM
Why the fcuk wont anyone ask him about the other comments? (bar the NL, who touched on it)
AFAIK this paper and most of the locals are owned by John Taylor, ex UUP MP.
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:32:17 PM
Quote from: full back on October 14, 2008, 12:28:36 PM
Why the fcuk wont anyone ask him about the other comments? (bar the NL, who touched on it)
AFAIK this paper and most of the locals are owned by John Taylor, ex UUP MP.
:D
That explains it
Although it doesnt explain the spineless reporting by the Irish News
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:23:35 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:20:03 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:13:06 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:07:52 PM
Not sure what it has to do with OWC?
He's one of you - would his views be typical of the average OWC supporter?
I didn't know he was one of me :o
Sorry, meant to include this link with that:
http://uk.myspace.com/votearmstrong1 (http://uk.myspace.com/votearmstrong1)
I've recently taken up golf but wouldn't say I was an avid golfer. I still think some reflection and soul searching is required on my part right enough.
would his views be typical of the average OWC supporter?
FFS! Would his views be typical of your average avid Golfer which he also claims to be?
If he posted what he posted on OWC I have no doubt that he would have been dealt with in the same way there as he was here.
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:35:05 PM
If he posted what he posted on OWC I have no doubt that he would have been dealt with in the same way there as he was here.
Really? I would have doubts.
Quote from: full back on October 14, 2008, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:15:46 PM
http://www.ballymenatimes.com/news/Armstrong-wont-give-up-Council.4586772.jp (http://www.ballymenatimes.com/news/Armstrong-wont-give-up-Council.4586772.jp)
Armstrong won't give up Council post
"This has caused myself and my family great distress but I am now determined that I will not be driven from office "
Cllr. Neill Armstrong
13 October 2008
By Des Blackadder
BALLYMENA Councillor Neill Armstrong has pledged to continue his political career despite being at the centre of a 'distressing' internet impersonation scam last week.
The UUP representative admitted he had been stunned and angered when he was made aware that he was being impersonated on a GAA web site by someone making 'outrageous and inflammatory comments' under his name.
Cllr. Armstrong, who represents Ballymena North, told the Times: "I have no idea who is doing this or what their motives are and I immediately requested that the comments be removed, which I understand has been done.
"I would wish to completely disassociate myself from the comments which in no way reflect my views. I am happy to stand on my public record as a councillor over the past eight years where I have treated all constituents equally and have always opposed violence or extremism in any form."
He added: "This has caused myself and my family great distress but I am now determined that I will not be driven from office by bigots from whatever quarter and will continue to serve people from all sections of the community in Ballymena equally."
The full article contains 197 words and appears in n/a newspaper.
Page 1 of 1
Why the fcuk wont anyone ask him about the other comments? (bar the NL, who touched on it)
They would do if he would answer his mobile phone to unrecognised numbers of reply to his emails ... I know of at least two Sunday tabloid reporters who have been trying to talk to the man who said he was willing to talk to anyone about the disgraceful comments he didn't make...
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:43:08 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:35:05 PM
If he posted what he posted on OWC I have no doubt that he would have been dealt with in the same way there as he was here.
Really? I would have doubts.
So you think the average OWC fan thinks like him?
I would say the average OWCer doesnt think anyone form this thread should be taken out and shot.
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:15:46 PM
http://www.ballymenatimes.com/news/Armstrong-wont-give-up-Council.4586772.jp (http://www.ballymenatimes.com/news/Armstrong-wont-give-up-Council.4586772.jp)
Armstrong won't give up Council post
"This has caused myself and my family great distress but I am now determined that I will not be driven from office "
Cllr. Neill Armstrong
13 October 2008
By Des Blackadder
BALLYMENA Councillor Neill Armstrong has pledged to continue his political career despite being at the centre of a 'distressing' internet impersonation scam last week.
The UUP representative admitted he had been stunned and angered when he was made aware that he was being impersonated on a GAA web site by someone making 'outrageous and inflammatory comments' under his name.
Cllr. Armstrong, who represents Ballymena North, told the Times: "I have no idea who is doing this or what their motives are and I immediately requested that the comments be removed, which I understand has been done.
"I would wish to completely disassociate myself from the comments which in no way reflect my views. I am happy to stand on my public record as a councillor over the past eight years where I have treated all constituents equally and have always opposed violence or extremism in any form."
He added: "This has caused myself and my family great distress but I am now determined that I will not be driven from office by bigots from whatever quarter and will continue to serve people from all sections of the community in Ballymena equally."
The full article contains 197 words and appears in n/a newspaper.
Page 1 of 1
So what about the rest of the bard's comments Neill? Were they yours? Any chance of a journalist properly questioning him on this?
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 14, 2008, 01:09:07 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:15:46 PM
http://www.ballymenatimes.com/news/Armstrong-wont-give-up-Council.4586772.jp (http://www.ballymenatimes.com/news/Armstrong-wont-give-up-Council.4586772.jp)
Armstrong won't give up Council post
"This has caused myself and my family great distress but I am now determined that I will not be driven from office "
Cllr. Neill Armstrong
13 October 2008
By Des Blackadder
BALLYMENA Councillor Neill Armstrong has pledged to continue his political career despite being at the centre of a 'distressing' internet impersonation scam last week.
The UUP representative admitted he had been stunned and angered when he was made aware that he was being impersonated on a GAA web site by someone making 'outrageous and inflammatory comments' under his name.
Cllr. Armstrong, who represents Ballymena North, told the Times: "I have no idea who is doing this or what their motives are and I immediately requested that the comments be removed, which I understand has been done.
"I would wish to completely disassociate myself from the comments which in no way reflect my views. I am happy to stand on my public record as a councillor over the past eight years where I have treated all constituents equally and have always opposed violence or extremism in any form."
He added: "This has caused myself and my family great distress but I am now determined that I will not be driven from office by bigots from whatever quarter and will continue to serve people from all sections of the community in Ballymena equally."
The full article contains 197 words and appears in n/a newspaper.
Page 1 of 1
So what about the rest of the bard's comments Neill? Were they yours? Any chance of a journalist properly questioning him on this?
They would do, if he would answer his phone to them or reply to his emails ... Neil, if you're reading the board, this isn't going to go away anytime soon ;)
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:56:13 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:43:08 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 14, 2008, 12:35:05 PM
If he posted what he posted on OWC I have no doubt that he would have been dealt with in the same way there as he was here.
Really? I would have doubts.
So you think the average OWC fan thinks like him?
No idea, that's what I asked you.
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 01:05:33 PM
I would say the average OWCer doesnt think anyone form this thread should be taken out and shot.
And the rest of his comments nifan?
Whats average?
Id say some agree with some of them others not.
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 12:15:46 PM
I am now determined that I will not be driven from office by bigots
Most ironic statement in quite some time.
I presume the bigots he refers to are the posters here who are merely asking very valid questions about his posts on here.
So he wants us dead, and we are bigots for pointing this out.
Neill, its only a matter of time before a paper or radio show is found with the balls to look at all the facts and let your voters make up their minds.
This wont go away you know ;)
Given some of the other specimens that pass for politicians up here he might be able to remain
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 01:05:33 PM
I would say the average OWCer doesnt think anyone form this thread should be taken out and shot.
Hmmmmm Sickboy......................
is that average?
not the same thing
So what you are saying is that views like those held by Armstrong are tolerated on OWC but are banned here. Think that answers your question Chris, though being a patron on OWC and being able to read the hidden sections, you'd be aware of that anyway.
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 01:31:20 PM
not the same thing
Aye, but some of his views on GAA and its fans are pretty reprehensible.
No I am saying they may agree with it.
You could have whatever view you like about whatever you want donagh and the mods of this site can do nothing about it. They can only act on your comments.
Im not aware of any one on OWC suggesting posters on here should be shot.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 14, 2008, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 01:31:20 PM
not the same thing
Aye, but some of his views on GAA and its fans are pretty reprehensible.
Agreed and I argued with him in the past about this.
Doesnt make his view average, or even average of mods there.
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 01:39:04 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 14, 2008, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 01:31:20 PM
not the same thing
Aye, but some of his views on GAA and its fans are pretty reprehensible.
Agreed and I argued with him in the past about this.
Doesnt make his view average, or even average of mods there.
Was only giving one example, who may not be mainstream average, but their are alot on OWC who have a dislike bordering on hatred of all things GAA and its supporters.
Is this about Neil Armstrong the spaceman or Neil Armstrong the astronaut ??? ;)
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 14, 2008, 01:51:25 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 01:39:04 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 14, 2008, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 01:31:20 PM
not the same thing
Aye, but some of his views on GAA and its fans are pretty reprehensible.
Agreed and I argued with him in the past about this.
Doesnt make his view average, or even average of mods there.
Was only giving one example, who may not be mainstream average, but their are alot on OWC who have a dislike bordering on hatred of all things GAA and its supporters.
Could exactly the same thing not be said of a lot of supporters on here and their views about the IFA and Northern Ireland supporters.
This IS Northern Ireland - a lot of people have "dislike bordering on hate" for things they
perceive to be traits or, yes, even pasttimes exclusviely for "themmuns".
Quote from: Tonto on October 14, 2008, 03:52:41 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 14, 2008, 01:51:25 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 01:39:04 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 14, 2008, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 01:31:20 PM
not the same thing
Aye, but some of his views on GAA and its fans are pretty reprehensible.
Agreed and I argued with him in the past about this.
Doesnt make his view average, or even average of mods there.
Was only giving one example, who may not be mainstream average, but their are alot on OWC who have a dislike bordering on hatred of all things GAA and its supporters.
Could exactly the same thing not be said of a lot of supporters on here and their views about the IFA and Northern Ireland supporters.
This IS Northern Ireland - a lot of people have "dislike bordering on hate" for things they perceive to be traits or, yes, even pasttimes exclusviely for "themmuns".
Let's try and stick to the topic lads instead of getting embroiled in the 'whataboutary'.
Is suggesting the thoughts of the average OWCer not whataboutary?
Quote from: nifan on October 14, 2008, 04:39:27 PM
Is suggesting the thoughts of the average OWCer not whataboutary?
I'm very bad and will try to quell my curiosity in future.
Quote from: Donagh on October 14, 2008, 04:36:35 PM
Quote from: Tonto on October 14, 2008, 03:52:41 PM
Could exactly the same thing not be said of a lot of supporters on here and their views about the IFA and Northern Ireland supporters.
This IS Northern Ireland - a lot of people have "dislike bordering on hate" for things they perceive to be traits or, yes, even pasttimes exclusviely for "themmuns".
Let's try and stick to the topic lads instead of getting embroiled in the 'whataboutary'.
Well I don't think it was "whataboutary", just that it was a (IMO valid) question to consider that hate/distrust/dislike is a two-way street and is not exclusively the domain of one section of society.
But, as NIfan points out, it was you who took the subject off track in order to engage in petty points-scoring as if 'one of themmuns said it so all of themmuns think it'. :-\
Straw poll time then owcers.
1. Do you, like the bard of dunclug (or whoever hacked into his account), think the famine song is acceptable?
Yes / No.
Next question to follow when this thread threatens to dip off page 1.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 14, 2008, 09:34:02 PM
Straw poll time then owcers.
1. Do you, like the bard of dunclug (or whoever hacked into his account), think the famine song is acceptable?
Yes / No.
Next question to follow when this thread threatens to dip off page 1.
Why are you asking "owcers" that question? The Bard, AFAIK, is not/has not been a member of OWC and, even if he was, this kind of stereotype that you seem intent on promoting (or at least implying) that themmuns're all the same is the very reason that people like the Bard (alledgedly) hold views like they do.
Quote from: Tonto on October 14, 2008, 11:31:01 PM
this kind of stereotype that you seem intent on promoting (or at least implying) that themmuns're all the same is the very reason that people like the Bard (alledgedly) hold views like they do.
Very dodgy logic there. Just because someone presumes you hold one set of views is no justification for you in fact actually holding those beliefs.
Quote from: Mentalman on October 14, 2008, 11:48:31 PM
Quote from: Tonto on October 14, 2008, 11:31:01 PM
this kind of stereotype that you seem intent on promoting (or at least implying) that themmuns're all the same is the very reason that people like the Bard (alledgedly) hold views like they do.
Very dodgy logic there. Just because someone presumes you hold one set of views is no justification for you in fact actually holding those beliefs.
I meant that the logic that "the other side" are all the same is the reason for so much distrust because if you can't trust one, you can't trust any. If one deserved to be "taken out and shot", they all deserve it.
Yes tonto it's our fault Mr Armstrong would like to see us dead. ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 14, 2008, 11:58:17 PM
Yes tonto it's our fault Mr Armstrong would like to see us dead. ::)
Eh?
Who said that? I said that when people try to put others in neat little boxes that bigoted and stereotypical views spread, I was only saying that an example of that was SS2 and Donagh's entirely irrelevant reference to "owcers" as if they would be able to shed some light on how why themmuns feel like that.
I see now the impostor out on a path destroy Armstrong's life created an account in Armstrong's name also. I didn't see any of these posts. The only offencive posts I seen were from 'the bard of dunclug' which is Armstrong's own account. Is this story in the Newsletter right?
this week postings began appearing in his own name,
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/UUP-councillor-caught-up-in.4581052.jp
Quote from: Tonto on October 14, 2008, 11:31:01 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 14, 2008, 09:34:02 PM
Straw poll time then owcers.
1. Do you, like the bard of dunclug (or whoever hacked into his account), think the famine song is acceptable?
Yes / No.
Next question to follow when this thread threatens to dip off page 1.
Why are you asking "owcers" that question? The Bard, AFAIK, is not/has not been a member of OWC and, even if he was, this kind of stereotype that you seem intent on promoting (or at least implying) that themmuns're all the same is the very reason that people like the Bard (alledgedly) hold views like they do.
I am not implying anything, quite the opposite in fact. The allegation about yousuns (specifically NI fans) was made, I don't agree with the allegation. So, given that the vast majority of NI fans on this site also post on owc, it seems reasonable to address my question to owcers.
I would be 100% confident that I already know the answer MW, nifan and ChrisOWC for starters will provide. Hardly then in the best interests of someone attempting to promote a stereotype if I know several responses will not conform to that stereotype.
Now answer the question you contemptible, anonymous lunatic.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 15, 2008, 08:44:11 AM
I am not implying anything, quite the opposite in fact. The allegation about yousuns (specifically NI fans) was made, I don't agree with the allegation. So, given that the vast majority of NI fans on this site also post on owc, it seems reasonable to address my question to owcers.
I would be 100% confident that I already know the answer MW, nifan and ChrisOWC for starters will provide. Hardly then in the best interests of someone attempting to promote a stereotype if I know several responses will not conform to that stereotype.
Now answer the question you contemptible, anonymous lunatic.
Sorry, I actually did laugh out loud I read that last bit, fair play! :D
I still don't think the question is relevant, though, so I don't see why it should be asked...
How on earth did this thread get to be about the OWC?
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on October 15, 2008, 09:00:45 AM
How on earth did this thread get to be about the OWC?
Exactly!!
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on October 15, 2008, 09:00:45 AM
How on earth did this thread get to be about the OWC?
The Bard is a member of OWC and it was asked if he would be banned over there if he made the same comments. I was just curious because I was recently banned from there for comments I made here and I was wondering if they'd be doing the same to the Bard.
Quote from: Tonto on October 15, 2008, 08:52:11 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 15, 2008, 08:44:11 AM
I am not implying anything, quite the opposite in fact. The allegation about yousuns (specifically NI fans) was made, I don't agree with the allegation. So, given that the vast majority of NI fans on this site also post on owc, it seems reasonable to address my question to owcers.
I would be 100% confident that I already know the answer MW, nifan and ChrisOWC for starters will provide. Hardly then in the best interests of someone attempting to promote a stereotype if I know several responses will not conform to that stereotype.
Now answer the question you contemptible, anonymous lunatic.
Sorry, I actually did laugh out loud I read that last bit, fair play! :D
I still don't think the question is relevant, though, so I don't see why it should be asked...
I thought I might have been reported. The phrase is copyrighted by the moderator of the message board on the official Antrim GAA website. It refers to all posters on gaaboard.com - a real stereotype if you like.
"The Bard is a member of OWC and it was asked if he would be banned over there if he made the same comments. I was just curious because I was recently banned from there for comments I made here and I was wondering if they'd be doing the same to the Bard."
Well, if you follow that logic then I spose he should be banned, all things being equal.
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on October 15, 2008, 10:51:41 AM
Well, if you follow that logic then I spose he should be banned, all things being equal.
All things are equal, just like Animal Farm :-\
He has never made a post on owc has he?
Quote from: nifan on October 15, 2008, 10:57:35 AM
He has never made a post on owc has he?
He hasn't but then again neither did I.
What was your username?
Surely you did post on OWC - 143 posts?
The bard of dunclug has never made a post.
Hes more of a gaaboarder than an owcer - you'se can keep him.
Quote from: nifan on October 15, 2008, 11:07:33 AM
Surely you did post on OWC - 143 posts?
The bard of dunclug has never made a post.
Hes more of a gaaboarder than an owcer - you'se can keep him.
I made those posts over 4 years ago. So I had been a member for the last four years without making a post. The Bard has been a member for four months without making a post.
Quote from: Donagh on October 15, 2008, 09:16:51 AM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on October 15, 2008, 09:00:45 AM
How on earth did this thread get to be about the OWC?
The Bard is a member of OWC and it was asked if he would be banned over there if he made the same comments. I was just curious because I was recently banned from there for comments I made here and I was wondering if they'd be doing the same to the Bard.
Is it possible that you were mistaken with one connection that you made known here.
How did I never see this thread before? :o
Quote from: Main Street on October 15, 2008, 12:59:24 PM
Is it possible that you were mistaken with one connection that you made known here.
Not sure I'm with you MS. That he's a member of OWC? He is, well he's listed as a member on their website.
I'm not thinking of the Bard.
I can't recall exactly, the last Tony controversy, something to do with the name of one member here and the name you thought he used on the OWC site.
Could well have been my misunderstanding.
Quote from: Main Street on October 15, 2008, 01:57:11 PM
I'm not thinking of the Bard.
I can't recall exactly, the last Tony controversy, something to do with the name of one member here and the name you thought he used on the OWC site.
Could well have been my misunderstanding.
Oh donalmac and Belfast Owl? No they're the same person. Definite about that one.
Okay so, it was just me thinking that Belfast Owl can type properly and construct sentences when posting there but here he turns into an illiterate troll.
Bump
Come back Mr Armstrong, all is forgiven..................
Quote from: Donagh on October 15, 2008, 01:59:55 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 15, 2008, 01:57:11 PM
I'm not thinking of the Bard.
I can't recall exactly, the last Tony controversy, something to do with the name of one member here and the name you thought he used on the OWC site.
Could well have been my misunderstanding.
Oh donalmac and Belfast Owl? No they're the same person. Definite about that one.
i'm not, but we all know exactly what you are Donagh :D
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 16, 2008, 10:00:12 AM
i'm not, but we all know exactly what you are Donagh :D
Please fill us in donal. You were exposed on here for being an outright liar. How long till your little loyalist chums on OWC realise the same I wonder... ::)
Quote from: Donagh on October 16, 2008, 10:23:25 AM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 16, 2008, 10:00:12 AM
i'm not, but we all know exactly what you are Donagh :D
Please fill us in donal. You were exposed on here for being an outright liar. How long till your little loyalist chums on OWC realise the same I wonder... ::)
post reported
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 16, 2008, 11:56:00 AM
post reported
Good, now clear of back to OWC with the Bard of Dunclug and the other bigots and congratulate yourselves on how great it was to beat a hill in Italy last night.
Whats your views on the bards posts anyway Donal? Do you believe it was Neil Armstrong?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 14, 2008, 09:34:02 PM
Straw poll time then owcers.
1. Do you, like the bard of dunclug (or whoever hacked into his account), think the famine song is acceptable?
Yes / No.
Next question to follow when this thread threatens to dip off page 1.
For what it's worth I don't think it's acceptable, since it invites an ethnic/religious group (or perceived one, anyway) to "go home".
Getting back to the original topic of the thread, it seems the opposition to the parade is starting to organise.
(http://eirigi.org/images/rir_poster.jpg)
The Shinners have also lodged an application for a separate parade on the same day. The purpose is still undisclosed but doesn't take a brain surgeon work out it'll be an attempt to keep a lid on the days protests. Feeling is running that high over this and other issues, I can't see it working...
http://www.paradescommission.org/parades/?parade=25333 (http://www.paradescommission.org/parades/?parade=25333)
REFERENCE NUMBER ORGANISATION TOWN OF PARADE
36325 Sinn Fein Belfast
Date of Parade 2nd November 2008
Date that Parade is to be Considered 22nd November 2008
Start Time of Outward Route 12.00
Proposed Outward Route
Bank Square
Chapel Lane
Castle Street
Castle Junction
Donegall Place
End Time of Outward Route 13.0
If both parades go ahead it will be pandemonium in the city that day
It gives all the wee spides a chance to riot when there is no Celtic/Rangers game on............
Quote from: full back on October 17, 2008, 08:01:10 AM
If both parades go ahead it will be pandemonium in the city that day
It gives all the wee spides a chance to riot when there is no Celtic/Rangers game on............
Dunno. Can't see too many of them being out of their pits on a Sunday morning. Will be interesting to see what happens when Éirígí protest runs into the Shinner one though.
Parade bingo starts again. Depressing.
:D It must be great fun to work at the Parades Commission Office all the same. Imagine the scence, you've the feet up looking forward to a quiet cushy wee time up to Xmas, after a heavy 6 or 7 months workload that started back last easter, then this happens :D
Reroute both parades I say.
incredible, supporters of a vile murdering terrorist organisation protesting at the return of the vile murdering british forces
you couldn't make it up, or maybe you could when you have a look at the 'type' involved, on both sides, come that cold sunday morning :D :D
Have you not something to tell us donal?
Quote from: Donagh on October 17, 2008, 10:39:51 AM
Have you not something to tell us donal?
have you not been warned by the mods about your constant intimidation regarding myself?
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 17, 2008, 10:45:33 AM
Quote from: Donagh on October 17, 2008, 10:39:51 AM
Have you not something to tell us donal?
have you not been warned by the mods about your constant intimidation regarding myself?
you are easily intimidated , what exactly is your agenda on this board?
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 17, 2008, 10:45:33 AM
Quote from: Donagh on October 17, 2008, 10:39:51 AM
Have you not something to tell us donal?
have you not been warned by the mods about trying to intimidate me?
Edit: you're not worth a response...
Just to say,
I've been mediating between Donagh and Donalmac99. Basically this whole 'feud' thing is about an allegation that donalmac99 made a while ago about 'threats' made by Donagh. Donagh denies this, and therefore is constantly challenging every post made by the other poster.
This situation needs to stop, because it's very annoying for a lot of people. Therefore, donal has until 12.00 to send me some evidence of these threats, which will result in a ban for Donagh, as threatening behaviour is pretty serious, even on an internet forum. If donal cannot furnish some evidence, and refuses to retract the allegation, then he will be banned for 1 week.
As for the spats between them, I expect them to cease from now on, regardless of the outcome, and this episode should end.
This does not mean that any other posts from either user in the future are exempt from action being taken if the need arises.
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on October 17, 2008, 10:59:46 AM
This situation needs to stop, because it's very annoying for a lot of people. Therefore, donal has until 12.00 to send me some evidence of these threats, which will result in a ban for Donagh, as threatening behaviour is pretty serious, even on an internet forum. If donal cannot furnish some evidence, and refuses to retract the allegation, then he will be banned for 1 week.
You can add a few 0's to that mod.
Complete WUM whose sole aim is to annoy people on this board
Quote from: full back on October 17, 2008, 11:01:48 AM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on October 17, 2008, 10:59:46 AM
This situation needs to stop, because it's very annoying for a lot of people. Therefore, donal has until 12.00 to send me some evidence of these threats, which will result in a ban for Donagh, as threatening behaviour is pretty serious, even on an internet forum. If donal cannot furnish some evidence, and refuses to retract the allegation, then he will be banned for 1 week.
You can add a few 0's to that mod.
Complete WUM whose sole aim is to annoy people on this board
As I said
QuoteThis does not mean that any other posts from either user in the future are exempt from action being taken if the need arises.
In this situation, and this situation alone, the action I mentioned is what will happen. All other posts, in future, will be treated on their own merits.
Quote from: full back on October 17, 2008, 11:01:48 AM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on October 17, 2008, 10:59:46 AM
This situation needs to stop, because it's very annoying for a lot of people. Therefore, donal has until 12.00 to send me some evidence of these threats, which will result in a ban for Donagh, as threatening behaviour is pretty serious, even on an internet forum. If donal cannot furnish some evidence, and refuses to retract the allegation, then he will be banned for 1 week.
You can add a few 0's to that mod.
Complete WUM whose sole aim is to annoy people on this board
I concur
I see he has created a thread that you cant reply to in order to apologise to Donagh :D
Unsubstantiated claims for so long ::)
Sums his persona up
Quote from: full back on October 17, 2008, 11:22:26 AM
I see he has created a thread that you cant reply to in order to apologise to Donagh :D
Unsubstantiated claims for so long ::)
Sums his persona up
FFS ::)
your obsession with me is tedious to say the least.
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 17, 2008, 11:25:04 AM
Quote from: full back on October 17, 2008, 11:22:26 AM
I see he has created a thread that you cant reply to in order to apologise to Donagh :D
Unsubstantiated claims for so long ::)
Sums his persona up
FFS ::)
your obsession with me is tedious to say the least.
Much like your obsession with telling lies ::)
"In the past I made an allegation that Donagh had threatened me via pm. I unfortunately do not have the evidence to back up this claim so therefore, in this instance, I must retract the allegation regarding Donagh and his threatening behaviour.
D."
I take it by this that you mean you were lying when you made the allegations then, for surely, nobody would be stupid enough to delete the only evidence they had to substantiate an allegation like this ?
Quote from: full back on October 17, 2008, 11:26:19 AM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 17, 2008, 11:25:04 AM
Quote from: full back on October 17, 2008, 11:22:26 AM
I see he has created a thread that you cant reply to in order to apologise to Donagh :D
Unsubstantiated claims for so long ::)
Sums his persona up
FFS ::)
your obsession with me is tedious to say the least.
Much like your obsession with telling lies ::)
im not getting dragged down to your pathetic level
may i remind you of rule 9
now try ignoring my posts if the annoy you so much, it's not rocket science.
I usually ignore yours, not because thay annoy me but because thay are just not interesting and they are always below the level of intellect needed to stimulate the brain (no matter how big or small that brain may be)
so as ive said, ignore me like i ignore you. :)
Quote from: TORGAEL on October 17, 2008, 11:28:28 AM
"In the past I made an allegation that Donagh had threatened me via pm. I unfortunately do not have the evidence to back up this claim so therefore, in this instance, I must retract the allegation regarding Donagh and his threatening behaviour.
D."
I take it by this that you mean you were lying when you made the allegations then, for surely, nobody would be stupid enough to delete the only evidence they had to substantiate an allegation like this ?
I have nothing left to say on the matter.
now folks, what's more important: unionist coat trailers, irish mercenaries, thae bard of dunclug.............................or me?
No response needed.
Okay, TORGAEL, fullback, et al. Please let this one lie now.
He has done what I asked him to do, and what Donagh has agreed to as well. People can make their own minds up about the initial claims, but as I explained to donalmac99, an unproven allegation must be treated as a false allegation by ourselves.
In any case, this draws a line under the episode, and I would ask ye not to spark another one on the back of it.
Thanks.
I'm just glad we are all friends again ;)
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 17, 2008, 11:25:04 AM
In the past I made an allegation that Donagh had threatened me via pm. I unfortunately do not have the evidence to back up this claim so therefore, in this instance, I must retract the allegation regarding Donagh and his threatening behaviour.
Firstly, I'd like to thank donal for retracting his allegations. It's obviously not the full apology I would like but I fully understand how sometimes one can paint themselves into a corner in a way that makes it difficult to retreat from certain positions. For the record I'd like to state that there were no PMs between myself and donal on this forum or on OWC. Any interaction between us was on the public boards of this forum only but if he found my posts intimidatory I'd like to fully apologise as that was never the intention though I admit that out of exasperation I may have crossed the line from what is the usual cut and thrust of debate on this side of Gaaboard.
Secondly, I'd like to apologise to the Mods of this board who I think we all agree do a great job keeping the good ship Gaaboard afloat despite hostility from some both within our Association and without. The last thing I would intend would be to threaten the future of the board by anything I might post whether in jest, seriousness or plain wind-up. It's to the credit of the Mods that they've been able to keep this forum free and open to the general public and thereby being able to demonstrate that our Association is a broad church, with nothing to hide, made up of members with many different opinions and none.
My slightly over-the-top reaction to donal in recent weeks was probably a reaction in my own attempt to defend the board and the Association. I suspected donal's motive for his, shall we say somewhat deceiving posts since joining the forum was to damage the credibility of the GAA and this forum. But as one of the Mods has reminded me, I am not a bouncer, and besides, the integrity of this board and Association has withstood much more hostile full frontal attacks from other more able individuals and organisations. Most of us here I suppose hide behind anonymous pseudonyms and if someone wants to take on another persona it's none of my business – after all, I've been told that O'Neill does it all the time.
In saying all of that, I'd like to draw a line under this unsavoury donalmac99 issue and I look forward to sparing with him on more substantive matters. So as the Bard of Dunclug probably wouldn't say, the experience has been one small step for Donagh and a smaller step still for Gaaboard.
Did anyone ever get a response from the bard with regards to the other posts made? I see that his council email is public on ballymena council site.
Donagh
The apology is not sincere, as it was made under duress, Donalmac remains an unreconstructed "alligator" as Pat Short would say, (ie maker of false allegations), and needs to do more.
We need an allegation retraction decommissioning body to verify independently all allegation retractions
does anyone think that the bards comments on this board didn't get the media attention it deserved? I personally thought it deserved more exposure.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 17, 2008, 12:52:15 PM
Donalmac remains an unreconstructed "alligator" as Pat Short would say, (ie maker of false allegations), and needs to do more.
Pot, kettle, black?
Quote from: kumquat on October 17, 2008, 12:54:59 PM
does anyone think that the bards comments on this board didn't get the media attention it deserved? I personally thought it deserved more exposure.
The moderators of the board were very quick to remove the bards comments. The comments should have been investigated. Were they from the same ip address as the rest of the bards sectarian comments?
Didnt get near enough media attention IMHO
As has been said if an SDLP/SF councillor made similar comments on OWC there would have been uproar.
The local journalists need to grow a set of balls & ask him about the other comments that were posted, but then again some things never change
The Bards comments were deleted for a couple of reasons. The initial reason was because they were disgusting, hence the bard got banned. Then as we scrolled down through the thread, we saw other ones where this idea of an imposter was mooted. To be on the safe side, in case it was 'identity theft' the rest of those posts were clipped, and they are saved.
We can also tell the IPs used in all the bards messages (there was more than one IP in question). If there is any comeback in the board's direction, we still have the posts. As have a lot of other posters who copied them before they were clipped here.
Has their been any contact with the mods/board to discuss the source of the posts?
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on October 17, 2008, 01:14:57 PM
The Bards comments were deleted for a couple of reasons. The initial reason was because they were disgusting, hence the bard got banned. Then as we scrolled down through the thread, we saw other ones where this idea of an imposter was mooted. To be on the safe side, in case it was 'identity theft' the rest of those posts were clipped, and they are saved.
We can also tell the IPs used in all the bards messages (there was more than one IP in question). If there is any comeback in the board's direction, we still have the posts. As have a lot of other posters who copied them before they were clipped here.
How is your investigation coming along?
Well done for keeping the posts.
None. And I'd say all of us are not disappointed about that. I think the reporters have all the ammo they need if they want to use it. The less the board is involved the better, in my opinion.
Quote from: kumquat on October 17, 2008, 01:17:20 PM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on October 17, 2008, 01:14:57 PM
The Bards comments were deleted for a couple of reasons. The initial reason was because they were disgusting, hence the bard got banned. Then as we scrolled down through the thread, we saw other ones where this idea of an imposter was mooted. To be on the safe side, in case it was 'identity theft' the rest of those posts were clipped, and they are saved.
We can also tell the IPs used in all the bards messages (there was more than one IP in question). If there is any comeback in the board's direction, we still have the posts. As have a lot of other posters who copied them before they were clipped here.
How is your investigation coming along?
We are not investigating anything. Why would we?
Poster was being out of order -> poster got banned.
If anyone asks us to 'investigate' the IPs, I suppose we could do it, because there's a record of them, but we haven't. All I can tell you is there's more than one IP used.
Those of us who have access to the Internet at work and home will probably have two IP addresses logged. As I remember Neill Armstrong's defence was that he had not logged out correctly and someone else used his account. If this is true, then surely the posts would all have been logged under the same IP address? (making the two IP address issue irrelevant)
I printed the full transcript of the thread before it was ammended. I have it in an envelope in the boot of my car should I ever feel the need to dig it up again ;)
It wont go away you know.
Incidentally re the Donagh v Donalmac shite. how this has been portrayed as no more than a personal spat is beyond me, this Donalmac guy has been posting offensive crap and personal abuse to many posters, not just Donal.
Donal reacted more, which from my own experience, wont get you anywhere on here.
That said, Mods do an unforgiving job and their efforts to avoid letting the site descend into freefall are to be acknowledged, even if we dont always agree with the methods.
Even if Donal has not admitted his allegation was false we have to treat his allegation as 100% false.
I would expect in future that the terms of accepting a retraction should include a complete withdrawal of said allegation and a complete retraction of any insinuation that there was a reason for the allegation.
If someone is going to claim threats, via pm specifically, they should report it straight away.
All the active PMs will be saved by the board and are accessible by the mods.
Well said Nifan, now back to page one with the Bard!!!
That is not the point here.
The tragedy here is that the troll Donal has had his retraction accepted by the board but at the same time he is allowed to insinuate that he did receive a threatening pm from Donagh.
I say he should withdraw the claim totally and state that he did not receive any pm from Donagh at any time.
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on October 17, 2008, 11:34:24 AM
Okay, TORGAEL, fullback, et al. Please let this one lie now.
He has done what I asked him to do, and what Donagh has agreed to as well. People can make their own minds up about the initial claims, but as I explained to donalmac99, an unproven allegation must be treated as a false allegation by ourselves.
In any case, this draws a line under the episode, and I would ask ye not to spark another one on the back of it.
Thanks.
that outrageous you should bar him, how long will you put up with his crap?
He lied about donagh threatening him and he should be banned.
Some posters desperate to win a battle might end up losing the Board.
We have been asked to let it lie.
Surely this takes all the attention away from the Bigoted Bard ??
Let's get back to Neill.
Any more death wishes from the UUP over the weekend??
Is Mr Armstrong getting over the 'trauma' of someone using into his account?
How are the police investigations going?
Quote from: full back on October 21, 2008, 09:22:35 AM
Is Mr Armstrong getting over the 'trauma' of someone using into his account?
How are the police investigations going?
I wonder if he still at his wits end?
Lets face it, if he thought for one second that he could prove his innocence, he would have this site shut down in a heartbeat. The truth is, he knows the evidence is stacked against him and in instead hoping this all blows over quietly and the likes of his holiness stops bumping the thread back to the top of page one :-*
To be honest hhn, im not sure this being on page 1 of the gaa board registers with anyone outside this site anymore already
It all seems to have been swept under the carpet ::)
Bump away HHnb ;)
Who is bumping who ?
Quote from: nifan on October 21, 2008, 01:54:41 PM
To be honest hhn, im not sure this being on page 1 of the gaa board registers with anyone outside this site anymore already
Reasonable point, but you can be damn sure that Mr Armstrongs people are watching it like a hawk.
It is genuinely amazing how quietly they managed to sweep this under the carpet and make out like an imposter did it all without being confronted about his other controversial posts.
I suppose it will drop off page one sometime soon. But the important thing is that what was said has been kept by a few people and can be dragged back out should the need arise.
I think it would be ideal around an election time to be honest.
What if a new thread was started with an attention grabbing name? :o :o
Quote from: kumquat on October 21, 2008, 02:02:29 PM
What if a new thread was started with an attention grabbing name? :o :o
It seems there is quite enough attention on it presently.
http://www.politics.ie/northern-ireland/35883-uup-space-cadet-lets-mask-slip.html
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 21, 2008, 02:01:37 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 21, 2008, 01:54:41 PM
To be honest hhn, im not sure this being on page 1 of the gaa board registers with anyone outside this site anymore already
Reasonable point, but you can be damn sure that Mr Armstrongs people are watching it like a hawk.
It is genuinely amazing how quietly they managed to sweep this under the carpet and make out like an imposter did it all without being confronted about his other controversial posts.
I suppose it will drop off page one sometime soon. But the important thing is that what was said has been kept by a few people and can be dragged back out should the need arise.
I think it would be ideal around an election time to be honest.
i guess no one outside of this board will take it seriously when it's being 'bumped' and discussed by some people that are afraid to use their own names, as usernames, but instead use childish and ridiculous usernames as 'his holiness or main street'
I can see it now, Armstrong caking himself because some beaut , going by the name 'his holiness' has bumped, and will continue to bump, a thread about him on an internet forum.
At one stage this even became the donalmac thread and Armstrong was forgotten :D :D
FFS, comedy at its very best :D :D
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 02:27:44 PM
discussed by some people that are afraid to use their own names, as usernames, but instead use childish and ridiculous usernames as 'his holiness or main street'
Possibly the most ironic and idiotic post ever made on an anonymous internet forum. :D :D :D :D
Especially given the Councillor himself posted under an anonymous username and was only revealed when he was too stupid to realise he posted his e-mail address for all to see :D
That said, given the sentiment shown by the bard, and the prior carry on of some owc members who regularly view this site, its probably no harm that we dont reveal our real names.
Quote from: orangeman on October 21, 2008, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: kumquat on October 21, 2008, 02:02:29 PM
What if a new thread was started with an attention grabbing name? :o :o
It seems there is quite enough attention on it presently.
What if a thread was called "UUP councillor makes disgraceful comments on GAA website allegedly" That would grab more attention, would it not?
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 21, 2008, 02:35:22 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 02:27:44 PM
discussed by some people that are afraid to use their own names, as usernames, but instead use childish and ridiculous usernames as 'his holiness or main street'
Possibly the most ironic and idiotic post ever made on an anonymous internet forum. :D :D :D :D
Especially given the Councillor himself posted under an anonymous username and was only revealed when he was too stupid to realise he posted his e-mail address for all to see :D
That said, given the sentiment shown by the bard, and the prior carry on of some owc members who regularly view this site, its probably no harm that we dont reveal our real names.
exactly, just think you and the idiotic councillor are alike in many ways :D
or let me guess, someone has also hacked your account explaining the numerous idiotic posts under the username 'his holiness' :D :D
did they also change your name to 'his holiness' just for a laugh as well? :D
Be careful not to send anything by PM to donalmac his holiness as he's a hoor for squirrel away PMs... :P
way too many smilies
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 21, 2008, 02:44:31 PM
Be careful not to send anything by PM to donalmac his holiness as he's a hoor for squirrel away PMs... :P
are we turning this into the 'donalmac' thread again or can we just concentrate on Armstrong. Im sure if the media are looking at this thread they are pissing themselves laughing at how some, on here, see my goodself as more important than a unionist councillor that has made disgusting comments on a GAA forum :D :D
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 02:48:37 PM
are we turning this into the 'donalmac' thread again
Nope but you are sure trying hard to do so. Did you not get enough attention as a child? You seem to crave it here.
Id say they are pissing themselves alright
Donal, your comment about hiding behind usernames is bound to invite criticism.
It is more common than not to use such names on forums like this.
Quote from: nifan on October 21, 2008, 02:53:22 PM
Donal, your comment about hiding behind usernames is bound to invite criticism.
It is more common than not to use such names on forums like this.
so why the criticism of armstrong in that case ???
he might p***k, but he was only doing what most of those on here do, post shite under an alias :D
doohicky: i dont crave it, it's just that people like you keep giving me it, are you looking for a father figure mate :D :D :D
<now watch as doohicky & co give me even more attention :D>
The Belfast Owl is at it again ::)
Quote from: full back on October 21, 2008, 02:58:30 PM
The Belfast Owl is at it again ::)
another brilliant and articulate post from the forums finest
ffs ::)
can everyone please try to keep this thread on track and refrain from turning it into the donalmac thread. We need to highlight Armstrongs posts, not me ffs :D (isnt that right his holiness?)
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 02:57:10 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 21, 2008, 02:53:22 PM
Donal, your comment about hiding behind usernames is bound to invite criticism.
It is more common than not to use such names on forums like this.
so why the criticism of armstrong in that case ???
he might p***k, but he was only doing what most of those on here do, post shite under an alias :D
doohicky: i dont crave it, it's just that people like you keep giving me it, are you looking for a father figure mate :D :D :D
<now watch as doohicky & co give me even more attention :D>
The extended Browser family will not appreciate your flippant comments, I was going to post shite also but no point in fighting fire with fire.
::)
You should be spending your time writing apologies or telling lies about posters
AFAIK, you have already been warned about sh1te stirring so watch yourself (PS that is not a threat, incase you were going to fire off a PM to the mods again)
Quote from: full back on October 21, 2008, 03:05:06 PM
::)
You should be spending your time writing apologies or telling lies about posters
AFAIK, you have already been warned about sh1te stirring so watch yourself (PS that is not a threat, incase you were going to fire off a PM to the mods again)
oh look, full back , yet again, turns the thread into a personal feud ??? ???
so ive been warned and i better watch myself??? that is not a threat???
As I said it isnt a threat ::)
Now run along back to your mates & have a good laugh about how good you are at winding people up ;)
Quote from: full back on October 21, 2008, 03:09:39 PM
As I said it isnt a threat ::)
Now run along back to your mates & have a good laugh about how good you are at winding people up ;)
my suggestion to you, before you dig yourself any deeper, is to ignore me, like i do you, and concentrate on what's important:
the councillor and his posts.
The irony is that Donalmac is doing more than anyone to keep this thread at the top of the page.
:D
ffs donalmac he obviously was implying that the mods may take action if you continue to shite stir.
stop that shite
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 03:13:46 PM
Quote from: full back on October 21, 2008, 03:09:39 PM
As I said it isnt a threat ::)
Now run along back to your mates & have a good laugh about how good you are at winding people up ;)
my suggestion to you, before you dig yourself any deeper, is to ignore me and concentrate on what's important:
the councillor and his posts.
Really appreciate the suggestion ::)
People of your ilk should keep the suggestions to yourself
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 21, 2008, 03:14:26 PM
The irony is that Donalmac is doing more than anyone to keep this thread at the top of the page.
:D
the irony is that your obsession with me is continuing to deflect attention from the councillior :D :D
maybe armstrong could employ me as his 'sand bag' with people like you around :D :D
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 21, 2008, 03:14:26 PM
The irony is that Donalmac is doing more than anyone to keep this thread at the top of the page.
:D
the irony is that your obsession with me is continuing to deflect attention from the councillior :D :D
maybe armstrong could employ me as his 'sand bag' with people like you around :D :D
Oh, you are a 'bag', just not a 'sand bag'
Quote from: full back on October 21, 2008, 03:19:55 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 21, 2008, 03:14:26 PM
The irony is that Donalmac is doing more than anyone to keep this thread at the top of the page.
:D
the irony is that your obsession with me is continuing to deflect attention from the councillior :D :D
maybe armstrong could employ me as his 'sand bag' with people like you around :D :D
Oh, you are a 'bag', just not a 'sand bag'
that's not that funny a play on words 'fool' back ::) :D
Belfast Owl :-X
now inorder to stop the attention being deflected from what's important, ie the councillor, i'm leaving this thread and not re visiting it :D :D,
I must admit though that i'm flattered by all the attention . It just enforces the belief that I am one of the most important people, in your eyes, on this forum and possibly beyond.
:-*
now ffs armstrong have the balls to admit it was you YCY :D :D
Having sorted out the Donagh and donalmac99 PM saga to everyone's satisfaction (well everyone bar donal obviously), it is time to sort out the spurious Belfast Owl allegation. Donagh says he is 100% sure that donalmac99 is indeed Belfast Owl. I say prove it and if you can't, then everyone on the board has to stop calling donalmac99 Belfast Owl, otherwise they will be banned for a week.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 21, 2008, 03:27:31 PM
Having sorted out the Donagh and donalmac99 PM saga to everyone's satisfaction (well everyone bar donal obviously), it is time to sort out the spurious Belfast Owl allegation. Donagh says he is 100% sure that donalmac99 is indeed Belfast Owl. I say prove it and if you can't, then everyone on the board has to stop calling donalmac99 Belfast Owl, otherwise they will be banned for a week.
agree 110%
it's becoming tiresome. I make a post and it's jumped on 'belfast owl' blah blah blah....troll blah blah blah
FFS im allowed to have a different opinion. I AM NOT, NEVER HAVE BEEN, AND I HOPE NEVER WILL BE belfast f**king owl
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 21, 2008, 03:27:31 PM
Having sorted out the Donagh and donalmac99 PM saga to everyone's satisfaction (well everyone bar donal obviously), it is time to sort out the spurious Belfast Owl allegation. Donagh says he is 100% sure that donalmac99 is indeed Belfast Owl. I say prove it and if you can't, then everyone on the board has to stop calling donalmac99 Belfast Owl, otherwise they will be banned for a week.
donalmac99 is Belfast Owl.
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 03:17:46 PM
the irony is that your obsession with me is continuing to deflect attention from the councillior :D :D
Anyone looking to see the defination of irony should go back to see how this "conversation" started :D
An all round gem is this lad ;D
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 03:36:21 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 21, 2008, 03:27:31 PM
Having sorted out the Donagh and donalmac99 PM saga to everyone's satisfaction (well everyone bar donal obviously), it is time to sort out the spurious Belfast Owl allegation. Donagh says he is 100% sure that donalmac99 is indeed Belfast Owl. I say prove it and if you can't, then everyone on the board has to stop calling donalmac99 Belfast Owl, otherwise they will be banned for a week.
donalmac99 is Belfast Owl.
no im not and i ask you to retract that allegation. i would ask you for proof, but of course you have none, why??? because i am not belfast owl and you are continuing to make false allegations regarding me.
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 03:39:15 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 03:36:21 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 21, 2008, 03:27:31 PM
Having sorted out the Donagh and donalmac99 PM saga to everyone's satisfaction (well everyone bar donal obviously), it is time to sort out the spurious Belfast Owl allegation. Donagh says he is 100% sure that donalmac99 is indeed Belfast Owl. I say prove it and if you can't, then everyone on the board has to stop calling donalmac99 Belfast Owl, otherwise they will be banned for a week.
donalmac99 is Belfast Owl.
no im not and i ask you to retract that allegation
Why? Are you ashamed of BelfastOwl or should BelfastOwl be ashamed by you?
I too can confirm that Donalmac is indeed Belfast Owl as I spotted his picture on OWC under this monicker and then spotted him in real life in the establishment where he is gainfully employed (allegedly) in Belfast ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on October 21, 2008, 03:40:45 PM
I too can confirm that Donalmac is indeed Belfast Owl as I spotted his picture on OWC under this monicker and then spotted him in real life in the establishment where he is gainfully employed (allegedly) in Belfast ;D
you are full of shite ;)
the sooner you get strip searched in dubai the better :D :D
oh and can we have a link to this 'monicker'. Surely if there's proof then there it is..............didnt think so. Why???? because im not belfast owl ::)
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 03:40:37 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 03:39:15 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 03:36:21 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 21, 2008, 03:27:31 PM
Having sorted out the Donagh and donalmac99 PM saga to everyone's satisfaction (well everyone bar donal obviously), it is time to sort out the spurious Belfast Owl allegation. Donagh says he is 100% sure that donalmac99 is indeed Belfast Owl. I say prove it and if you can't, then everyone on the board has to stop calling donalmac99 Belfast Owl, otherwise they will be banned for a week.
donalmac99 is Belfast Owl.
no im not and i ask you to retract that allegation
Why? Are you ashamed of BelfastOwl or should BelfastOwl be ashamed by you?
post reported
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 03:42:49 PM
post reported
For which of the ten rules?
the mods sent us both the same pm, i refer you to that
i have no more to say on the matter except that i am asking you to retract your false allegation regarding my identity.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 21, 2008, 03:38:24 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 03:17:46 PM
the irony is that your obsession with me is continuing to deflect attention from the councillior :D :D
Anyone looking to see the defination of irony should go back to see how this "conversation" started :D
An all round gem is this lad ;D
anyone looking for the spelling and meaning of 'definition' should....................too easy :D
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 03:48:12 PM
the mods sent us both the same pm, i refer you to that
Quote from: gaaboardmod
Donagh has agreed to cease the badgering of donalmac99's every post
In case you didn't notice, I never addressed your post and as I started this thread in the first place, I think I have the right to respond to posts on it.
You have the right to remain silent.
I had it confirmed to me a while back by a member of OWC that donalmac is in fact BelfastOwl.
However after I first revealed this here and by coincidence the false allegations were then made against me by donalmac, I was banned from OWC. An even stranger coincidence shortly after was the 'sinister' allegation by Mac on OWC that a member of OWC was being intimidated by someone from here. I wonder did Mac ask for proof or has someone over on OWC been telling porkies as well.
Anyway the upshot is that as I have been locked out of my account on OWC I cannot at this time prove that donalmac is BelfastOwl. But as soon as get proof or could be bothered paying £5 to OWC, I will post it. In the meantime, if anyone wants evidence that donalmac is less than stringent when it comes to telling the truth or is in fact a member of OWC a cursory reading of his posts since he joined should be enough.
Quote from: Zapatista on October 21, 2008, 03:53:19 PM
You have the right to remain silent.
But anything you do say will be........... ;)
Its clear this belfastowl guy is out to get a particular few "enemies" of the OWC barred from here.
This is his sole mission here.
The sooner mods realise this and boot him out the better.
A further irony is that he hides behind the name "belfastowl" on OWC and wont give his true name whilst slagging everyone on here for doing the same :-\
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 21, 2008, 04:13:02 PM
Its clear this belfastowl guy is out to get a particular few "enemies" of the OWC barred from here.
This is his sole mission here.
The sooner mods realise this and boot him out the better.
I think you have just about summed it up
To be honest I couldn't give two hoots about this not so wise an owl :P
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 04:06:40 PM
I had it confirmed to me a while back by a member of OWC that donalmac is in fact BelfastOwl.
However after I first revealed this here and by coincidence the false allegations were then made against me by donalmac, I was banned from OWC. An even stranger coincidence shortly after was the 'sinister' allegation by Mac on OWC that a member of OWC was being intimidated by someone from here. I wonder did Mac ask for proof or has someone over on OWC been telling porkies as well.
Anyway the upshot is that as I have been locked out of my account on OWC I cannot at this time prove that donalmac is BelfastOwl. But as soon as get proof or could be bothered paying £5 to OWC, I will post it. In the meantime, if anyone wants evidence that donalmac is less than stringent when it comes to telling the truth or is in fact a member of OWC a cursory reading of his posts since he joined should be enough.
post reported for, yet again, making fasle and unfounded allegations regarding my identity. I would ask the mods to either ask donagh for hard proof or that his allegations be treated as false and that he is suspended for constant rule breaking. Remember as even Main Street stated, unless there is proof regarding an allegation then it must be treated as false.
Again , agreeing with Main Street: I
would expect in future that the terms of accepting a retraction should include a complete withdrawal of said allegation and a complete retraction of any insinuation that there was a reason for the allegation
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:18:40 PM
post reported for, yet again, making fasle and unfounded allegations regarding my identity. I would ask the mods to either ask donagh for hard proof or that his allegations be treated as false and that he is suspended for constant rule breaking. Remember as even Main Street stated, unless there is proof regarding an allegation then it must be treated as false.
Which of the ten rules are you claiming that I have broken?
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 04:20:35 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:18:40 PM
post reported for, yet again, making fasle and unfounded allegations regarding my identity. I would ask the mods to either ask donagh for hard proof or that his allegations be treated as false and that he is suspended for constant rule breaking. Remember as even Main Street stated, unless there is proof regarding an allegation then it must be treated as false.
Which of the ten rules are you claiming that I have broken?
i refer you to the pm sent by the mods.
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:21:59 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 04:20:35 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:18:40 PM
post reported for, yet again, making fasle and unfounded allegations regarding my identity. I would ask the mods to either ask donagh for hard proof or that his allegations be treated as false and that he is suspended for constant rule breaking. Remember as even Main Street stated, unless there is proof regarding an allegation then it must be treated as false.
Which of the ten rules are you claiming that I have broken?
i refer you to the pm sent by the mods.
I've read them and I can't see anything. Perhaps you would like to reproduce them?
Otherwise, stop badgering me or I'll have to report you for "feuding". Now back to the topic under discussion on the thread title.
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 04:23:48 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:21:59 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 04:20:35 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:18:40 PM
post reported for, yet again, making fasle and unfounded allegations regarding my identity. I would ask the mods to either ask donagh for hard proof or that his allegations be treated as false and that he is suspended for constant rule breaking. Remember as even Main Street stated, unless there is proof regarding an allegation then it must be treated as false.
Which of the ten rules are you claiming that I have broken?
i refer you to the pm sent by the mods.
I've read them and I can't see anything. Perhaps you would like to reproduce them?
Otherwise, stop badgering me or I'll have to report you for "feuding". Now back to the topic under discussion on the thread title.
Ive saved all my pms, from the mods, this time, ill forward them to the mods if needed
post reported
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 04:28:08 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:24:57 PM
post reported
Stop ruining this thread.
lets just leave this in the hands of the mods, a few days off might be good for you.
Now could everyone, including donagh, please concentrate on the topic of the thread and not, as per usual, me.
thanks
Quote from: hardstation on October 21, 2008, 04:24:20 PM
A parliament of owls.
the 'owl' ones are the best :P
now , what's happening with armstrong?
I think Irish mercenaries should be more patriotic and pay more Tax to the Irish State,
unionist coat trailers employ page boys to eliminate the constant trailing
and the Bard of Dunclug should resign.
Quote from: hardstation on October 21, 2008, 04:31:45 PM
hOWL on, what were we talking about before this broke out?
this cannot be OWLlowed to continue
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:34:48 PM
this cannot be OWLlowed to continue
You sir, are clearly not Belfast Owl.
looks like there is a lot in common with donal/belfast howl and the bard of dumbfcuk -
twits twoo as the owl fella might say !
:D
Attn Mods, I'd like to think you can see what this guy is doing.
If Donagh is banned over this it would be an absolute disgrace.
This isnt a feud, its Donalmac99/belfast owls or whatever he is called deliberately targetting Donagh to try to get him banned.
Donagh shouldnt take, or share the blame here.
The sooner you kick this WUM out the better.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 21, 2008, 04:40:14 PM
looks like there is a lot in common with donal/belfast howl and the bard of dumbfcuk -
twits twoo as the owl fella might say !
:D
the media are watching us and this is what you come up with FFS
this forum is like a fish bOWL for those looking in , sorry but that's moorfOWL play on your part LB
:D
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 21, 2008, 04:43:09 PM
Attn Mods, I'd like to think you can see what this guy is doing.
If Donagh is banned over this it would be an absolute disgrace.
This isnt a feud, its Donalmac99/belfast owls or whatever he is called deliberately targetting Donagh to try to get him banned.
Donagh shouldnt take, or share the blame here.
The sooner you kick this WUM out the better.
do us OWL a favour and try not to think. :-*
try keeping the topic on track
thanks
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:24:57 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 04:23:48 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:21:59 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 21, 2008, 04:20:35 PM
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:18:40 PM
post reported for, yet again, making fasle and unfounded allegations regarding my identity. I would ask the mods to either ask donagh for hard proof or that his allegations be treated as false and that he is suspended for constant rule breaking. Remember as even Main Street stated, unless there is proof regarding an allegation then it must be treated as false.
Which of the ten rules are you claiming that I have broken?
i refer you to the pm sent by the mods.
I've read them and I can't see anything. Perhaps you would like to reproduce them?
Otherwise, stop badgering me or I'll have to report you for "feuding". Now back to the topic under discussion on the thread title.
Ive saved all my pms, from the mods, this time, ill forward them to the mods if needed
post reported
:D :D :D
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 21, 2008, 03:27:31 PM
Having sorted out the Donagh and donalmac99 PM saga to everyone's satisfaction (well everyone bar donal obviously),
Not quite everyones satisfaction.
Especially those that took the time to read Donalmacs "retraction" and took issue with it.
He in no way retracted his clear insinuation that he received threatening emails from Donagh.
This troll got off very lightly, his obvious purpose here is to stir shite.
Give Donalmac a break boys, unrequited love is a real killer.
He got off very lighty with the accusations against Donal. Basically suggested they were true but he couldnt prove it. The suggestion that it happened was therefore well and truly left out there.
He was also on thin ice having received warnings from the mods for personal abuse towards me before. He followed me into threads he wasnt involved in just to throw insults. He did the same on this thread today, jumped onto one of my posts that had nothing to do with him to get personal, then had the cheek to say I was obsessed with him.
I've said it before, the guy came here from OWC to get people banned, pure and simple.
Quote from: donalmac99 on October 21, 2008, 04:45:00 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 21, 2008, 04:40:14 PM
looks like there is a lot in common with donal/belfast howl and the bard of dumbfcuk -
twits twoo as the owl fella might say !
:D
the media are watching us and this is what you come up with FFS
this forum is like a fish bOWL for those looking in , sorry but that's moorfOWL play on your part LB
:D
well fair play to you for getting into the spirit of the joke
I dont care if you are owc or omc - either way I have to say 'how bizzare'
however, if ya think the worlds media are looking at us and reading this thread, holee fcuk you need to get a girlfriend or something, maybe a household pet or stronger hoover ;)
the only person that needs watching is the bigot of dunclug and his sectarian tirades
a real blast from the sectarian past there !
Lads am i the only one who is lost with the continual refernences to owls??
what is this in relation to?
Quote from: fred the red on October 21, 2008, 06:02:59 PM
Lads am i the only one who is lost with the continual refernences to owls??
what is this in relation to?
I'ma bit lost meself. I think belfastowl is a poster Ourweecountry. Is he the fella who is from a Nationalist background but "saw the light" and starting supporting NI? Such people exist ya know. Just not a lot of them.
This cant be true, sure Donal Mac is a big Ireland fan! why would he be a member of owc??
Quote from: fred the red on October 21, 2008, 06:22:22 PM
This cant be true, sure Donal Mac is a big Ireland fan! why would he be a member of owc??
Do you mean ROI fan? Now i'm confused.
Quote from: hardstation on October 21, 2008, 06:13:21 PM
Donalmac may be called BelfastOwl on the OWC board. Then again, he may not be.
Nobody knows except Donalmac and Donagh (who recently won the Fermanagh championship.)
:D
What's this thread all about, in a nutshell?
In no more than 30 words and extra marks for poetry.
I'll do the first line
Twas a man (allegedly) called the Bard of Dunclug
Quote from: ONeill on October 22, 2008, 03:33:27 PM
What's this thread all about, in a nutshell?
In no more than 30 words and extra marks for poetry.
Quote from: hardstation on October 22, 2008, 03:50:07 PM
For f**k sake, you used nine words, you greedy b**tard.
11 words left for someone.
Points lost for poor maths
For Tony Fearon to bug
That's only five as the greedy so and so before me used 11.
BTW, Hardstation, your adding isn't too hot today; nine and eleven should leave ten outta thirty!
italics don't count
Very contempory prose BTW
pity the next man that has to tie that together
Twas a man (allegedly) called the Bard of Dunclug
Who turned out to be a bit of a mug
Left his email bare
Had a bit of a 'mare
And now he's not so god damn smug!
2/10
Allegedly
He was known as the Bard
He looked like a lump of lard
He left his computer
For someone else to futter
The Mrs says he needs a new suiter
GAAboards got Talent
Im a great poet
and God Only knows
should i sing it as song
or proclaim it as prose
Would my ditty be witty
would my words come from depths
or should I stick with my sidewalk
and my bottle of meths
Quote from: hardstation on October 22, 2008, 04:11:35 PM
Is Donalmac an owl?
On the gaaboard to prowl?
He says he is not
And Donagh's a t**t
He emails the mods to shout FOUL
So he does, you know.
30 words and the winner.
Winner me bollox
Mine is better :P
Bard of dunclug
You sectarian thug
A silly old git
Whose hate got him in shit
Now did you want us all shot, or just hung?
Quote from: hardstation on October 22, 2008, 04:11:35 PM
Is Donalmac an owl?
On the gaaboard to prowl?
He says he is not
And Donagh's a t**t
He emails the mods to shout FOUL
So he does, you know.
30 words and the winner.
(http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/images/heaney_seamus.jpg)
The bard of dunclug was a terrible mug,
he wanted us took out and shot.
The affair got unreal as the bard was wee Neill,
Now he's at his wits end with us lot!
FAO Hardstation
Who put you in charge, that could judge our poems?
You cannot grade us all on your own.
The story of the bard i am out of touch,
Not that i care all that very much.
You could report me to the admin,
If I told the board you were <insert your name>
I'd like to prefix the following with a great big allegedly - edited for one word just to bring it to the 30
There was a man from near Moyle,
And the gaaboard made his blood boil,
All the posters should die,
The papers asked why?,
And a councillor's life it did spoil
Quote from: tyrone86 on October 22, 2008, 04:31:34 PM
I'd like to prefix the following with a great big allegedly
There once was a man from near Moyle,
And the gaaboard made his blood boil,
All the posters should die,
The papers asked why?,
And a councillor's life it did spoil
A tie for the lead with myself
Puck next with hardstation propping us up
I swayed upon the gaudy stern
The butt-end of a steering-oar,
And saw wherever I could turn
A crown upon the shore.
And though I would have hushed the crowd,
There was no mother's son but said,
'What is the figure in a shroud
Upon a gaudy bed?'
And after running at the brim
Cried out upon that thing beneath
--It had such dignity of limb--
By the sweet name of Death.
Though I'd my finger on my lip,
What could I but take up the song?
And running crowd and gaudy ship
Cried out the whole night long,
Crying amid the glittering sea,
Naming it with ecstatic breath,
Because it had such dignity,
By the sweet name of Death.
Just off the top of my head. I know i know...must try harder.
Broke the rules
30, I repeat 30 words
exactly 30 words?
This was the tale of the the Bard that bites
much ado about last rites.
Buckets to the papers he did cry
It wasn't me, Dunclug did deny
Im still in the lead ;D
For those who want a recap
(Allegedly)
He was known as the Bard
He looked like a lump of lard
He left his computer
For someone else to futter
The Mrs says he needs a new suiter
Twas a man (allegedly) called the Bard of Dunclug
Crying amid the glittering sea,
Naming it with ecstatic breath,
Because it had such dignity,
By the sweet name of Death.
With the original nine words. Genius ;D
Its quality hs, pure quality
SK, I think you need to have a long hard look at yourself
Mr Yeats would be ashamed
Which was better than mine?
Quote from: full back on October 22, 2008, 04:38:55 PM
Im still in the lead ;D
For those who want a recap
(Allegedly)
He was known as the Bard
He looked like a lump of lard
He left his computer
For someone else to futter
The Mrs says he needs a new suiter
Disqualified as a Limerick has to have the same rhyme in lines 1, 2 & 5 and 3 & 4.
Yours rhymes in 1 & 2 and 3, 4 & 5.
Im sure he rather I stole his work than came up with material like yours ;D
Give it another go FB come on!
Im gald i have beaten you but HS you're not the boss of me, I'm putting myself in 1st. Nobody said anything about plagiarism.
Quote from: tyrone86 on October 22, 2008, 04:46:04 PM
Quote from: full back on October 22, 2008, 04:38:55 PM
Im still in the lead ;D
For those who want a recap
(Allegedly)
He was known as the Bard
He looked like a lump of lard
He left his computer
For someone else to futter
The Mrs says he needs a new suiter
Disqualified as a Limerick has to have the same rhyme in lines 1, 2 & 5 and 3 & 4.
Yours rhymes in 1 & 2 and 3, 4 & 5.
Who the fcuk said it was a Limerick?
It is poetry man, poetry
Quote from: full back on October 22, 2008, 04:48:00 PM
Who the fcuk said it was a Limerick?
It is poetry man, poetry
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck........
Quote from: full back on October 22, 2008, 04:48:00 PM
Quote from: tyrone86 on October 22, 2008, 04:46:04 PM
Quote from: full back on October 22, 2008, 04:38:55 PM
Im still in the lead ;D
For those who want a recap
(Allegedly)
He was known as the Bard
He looked like a lump of lard
He left his computer
For someone else to futter
The Mrs says he needs a new suiter
Disqualified as a Limerick has to have the same rhyme in lines 1, 2 & 5 and 3 & 4.
Yours rhymes in 1 & 2 and 3, 4 & 5.
Who the fcuk said it was a Limerick?
It is poetry man, poetry
I fet it was going for the limerick as well and was dissappointed you didnt rhyme bard with fucktard personally
The king wore a mask and threw stones at the world,all in the name of a peasant.
A peasant removed the mask to reveal his face, was it his?
Quote from: SidelineKick on October 22, 2008, 04:46:59 PM
Im sure he rather I stole his work than came up with material like yours ;D
Give it another go FB come on!
Im gald i have beaten you but HS you're not the boss of me, I'm putting myself in 1st. Nobody said anything about plagiarism.
Why would I give it another go
I won
Quote from: hardstation on October 22, 2008, 04:46:47 PM
Most, if not all. Puck's was probably the worst. Shite.
Nothing like a bit of constructive criticism there.
What exactly was wrong with mine?
f**king oxford brogues indeed.
Quote from: tyrone86 on October 22, 2008, 04:50:49 PM
Quote from: full back on October 22, 2008, 04:48:00 PM
Who the fcuk said it was a Limerick?
It is poetry man, poetry
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck........
Im intrigued. I have always liked ducks.
Mine was deep dont you think?
and 30 words bang on the fanny!
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck........
[/quote]
Then it is probably an aquatic bird of which duck is one of the species
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 22, 2008, 04:55:49 PM
Mine was deep dont you think?
and 30 words bang on the fanny!
Long time since you done that hh
Well I was typing on the phone.
So its just a typo problem? Im trying here - help me out.
It read like something from Seamus Heany after a few bottles of stout.
Ill fix it now.
His Holiness shouldn't be at that sorta caper at all!
That was the best part! Ack now.
Ive a poetry certificate from cadburys on the wall.
Quote from: SidelineKick on October 22, 2008, 04:59:56 PM
His Holiness shouldn't be at that sorta caper at all!
??
setting the bar too high?
His Holiness isnt as Holy as I thought!Talking about fannies and asses!!
Dunclug sent forth a bright young bard
Who'd never showed balls at school in the yard
But behind a laptop - "Gaaboard posters should be shot!"
Definitely, no doubt - a fucktard.
A new winner emerges - since we are all on the self praise=no praise wagon.
30 words on the button.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on October 08, 2008, 03:04:30 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 03:00:58 PM
QuoteI've often wondered what it would be like to kill people and get away with it.
For as long as I can remember I often wonder if I committed murder would I get away with it or what could I do to ensure I get away with it - almost plan it.
I probably need the men in white coats too.
That's hardly surprising you hate everybody and everything!! ;D
The only person in this world I hate is the sister's boyfriend, and I've never planned his murder, just fantasise about thumping the head of him.
Family get togethers must be a real laugh down your way POG. ???
Quote from: SidelineKick on October 22, 2008, 05:05:05 PM
His Holiness isnt as Holy as I thought!Talking about fannies and asses!!
;D
Go forth and multiply I say ;D
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 22, 2008, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on October 22, 2008, 05:05:05 PM
His Holiness isnt as Holy as I thought!Talking about fannies and asses!!
;D
Go forth and multiply I say ;D
Actually I'll go first and multiply: 4 x 10 = 40; 3 x 4 = 12 :D
:D
Anyway, I trust once the messing is over by Hardstation I will be awarded first place for my deep thoughtful bit it poetry. At exactly 30 words too.
Surely?
Hardstation has somehow been put in charge of this poetry class!
If I had not have stolen mine from Yeats I probably would have won. Personally I would give everybody joint last. They were all shocking!
Edit: Especially Full Backs!!!
Hardtation= Judge
Sideline Kick= Jury
Now, all we need is an executioner...
Quote from: SidelineKick on October 22, 2008, 05:36:08 PM
Hardstation has somehow been put in charge of this poetry class!
He slept with the boy who suggested a bit of poetry.
I might be a hoor but I'm not a whore :)
Neil Neil where ever you may be
a rogue voice in the UUP
worshipping the army and the RUC
your beliefs laid bare for all to see
Quote from: An Fear Rua on October 22, 2008, 06:09:00 PM
Neil Neil where ever you may be
a rogue voice in the UUP
worshipping the army and the RUC
your beliefs laid bare for all to see
And we have a winner!!
Congratulations An Fear!
With the wooden spoon going to Full Back.
Quote from: An Fear Rua on October 22, 2008, 06:09:00 PM
Neil Neil where ever you may be
a rogue voice in the UUP
worshipping the army and the RUC
your beliefs laid bare for all to see
Congratulations AFR
So what do I get for second and third?
AFR's is clearly the best
but should face a stewards inquiry into
"a rogue voice in the UUP"
The bould bard would be just one of a chorus of rogue voices in the UUP.
Quote from: Main Street on October 22, 2008, 06:26:58 PM
AFR's is clearly the best
but should face a stewards inquiry into
"a rogue voice in the UUP"
The bould bard would be just one of a chorus of rogue voices in the UUP.
Well spotted Main Street. Award taken back and
temporarily given to Puckoon to shut him up.
Neil Neil where ever you may be
another rogue voice in the UUP
worshipping the army and the RUC
your beliefs laid bare for all to see
Puckoon, your glory was short lived!
Award reawarded to An Fear!
feck off Puck ;)
Well there is no "i" in team. A collective effort - I think Donagh should get man of the match.
Late entry
Dunclug
Computer bug
What a mug
30 words minus 6 = 24 bonus points. I can bring it down to 2 if necessary. Where's me prize?
Quote from: billy the kid on October 22, 2008, 05:18:06 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on October 08, 2008, 03:04:30 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 08, 2008, 03:00:58 PM
QuoteI've often wondered what it would be like to kill people and get away with it.
For as long as I can remember I often wonder if I committed murder would I get away with it or what could I do to ensure I get away with it - almost plan it.
I probably need the men in white coats too.
That's hardly surprising you hate everybody and everything!! ;D
The only person in this world I hate is the sister's boyfriend, and I've never planned his murder, just fantasise about thumping the head of him.
Family get togethers must be a real laugh down your way POG. ???
They aren't bad actually, it's just yon **** no one likes.
Quote from: Hardy on October 22, 2008, 07:31:05 PM
Late entry
Dunclug
Computer bug
What a mug
30 words minus 6 = 24 bonus points. I can bring it down to 2 if necessary. Where's me prize?
6 words used - 30 required
-24 handicap, before the appraisal.
I´m a bit more optimistic of not getting last place.
Bard
Armstrong?
Red-faced
Die posters!
Oh
Fcuk!
Dunclug
Username
Neil?
Computer
Left
Unguarded
Gaaboard
Look - is there gonna be a feckin riot or wha on the day of the parade? Haven't had a good riot here since 1997 (Drumcree) - only thing is - it feckin freezing!
Looks like the Brits are calling in the heavy artillery for their "parade".
RAF Harrier jets lined up for forces' fly-past
Published Date: 22 October 2008
PLANS are being made for a military fly-past at the armed forces' Belfast homecoming parade.
RAF and Army Air Corps' aircraft are scheduled to fly over the city centre parade route, under preparations being drawn up by the Ministry of Defence (MoD).
Depending on the weather and operational requirements, it is expected that two RAF Harrier GR7 fighter-bomber aircraft, two Army Air Corps' Gazelle helicopters and an RAF Puma transport helicopter will take part in the flypast.
Yesterday the MoD also moved to quell rumours that the regiments on parade at the November 2 homecoming parade had been ordered not to display their regimental colours.
A News Letter reader yesterday complained that the Royal Irish Regiment had been 'ordered' not to take their colours on parade in Belfast
"Why can the colours be carried in England and not in the capital city of the regiment?" he asked.
But an MoD spokesman said that the decision to decline regimental colours on parade had been a matter of 'courtesy' between the numerous Army regiments and other branches of the armed services taking part in the parade, rather than any reaction to republican criticism of the parade.
The Belfast parade will include local members of the Royal Irish Regiment, the Irish Guards, the Queen's Royal Dragoon Guards, TA units who been deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, 152 Transport Regiment RLC TA, RAF 230 Squadron, RAF ground personnel and members of the Royal Navy.
The MoD spokesman confirmed that the Royal Irish will carry their colours at the homecoming parades in Ballymena and Larne, where they will be the only regiment on parade.
"It is a matter of courtesy as there are so many regiments on parade in Belfast," he said, adding it would be difficult to decide whose colour should take precedence
"They will have their colours in Larne and Ballymena," he added.
It is also expected that the Belfast parade will see two Irish wolfhounds leading the parade — the mascots of both the Royal Irish and Irish Guards.
Would be an idea for the protesters to have a couple of Kerry Blues leading their parade.
A poetry competition, excellent. Can I play too?
Unlike my namesake, life's really hard.
He's been to the moon, I'm just a bard.
Denounced and derided by papists of Rome.
Plantation is over, I'll just f**k off home.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 23, 2008, 08:27:59 AM
A poetry competition, excellent. Can I play too?
Unlike my namesake, life's really hard.
He's been to the moon, I'm just a bard.
Denounced and derided by papists of Rome.
Plantation is over, I'll just f**k off home.
Sorry, I already won, but nice poem
This is probably the most ineptly run competition of all time - no rules, end time, judges (except for the competitors themselves)
A noted comper like fearon didnt even sully himself with this amateurish effort.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 23, 2008, 08:27:59 AM
A poetry competition, excellent. Can I play too?
Unlike my namesake, life's really hard.
He's been to the moon, I'm just a bard.
Denounced and derided by papists of Rome.
Plantation is over, I'll just f**k off home.
superb ss
however I am not sure about your use of them there full stops !
;) :D
Quote from: nifan on October 23, 2008, 09:59:43 AM
This is probably the most ineptly run competition of all time - no rules, end time, judges (except for the competitors themselves)
A noted comper like fearon didnt even sully himself with this amateurish effort.
He's waiting for the "Colour In Neill Armstrong" competition.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 23, 2008, 10:04:34 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 23, 2008, 08:27:59 AM
A poetry competition, excellent. Can I play too?
Unlike my namesake, life's really hard.
He's been to the moon, I'm just a bard.
Denounced and derided by papists of Rome.
Plantation is over, I'll just f**k off home.
superb ss
however I am not sure about your use of them there full stops !
;) :D
I thought about leaving the full stop out at the end of second line and making lines 2 & 3 one sentence. However I felt the poem didn't read as well without a defined break half way through it.
artistic licence then SS
as its not 'traditional' !
;)
by feck you love semantics and grammar !
:D
It wasn't me who stole the full stop key from your keyboard, by the way. :)
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 23, 2008, 10:34:57 AM
It wasn't me who stole the full stop key from your keyboard, by the way. :)
I type the same way I speak.....you know that ! :D
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 23, 2008, 10:26:25 AM
He's waiting for the "Colour In Neill Armstrong" competition.
You have to fill his face in red for a start!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 23, 2008, 10:40:30 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 23, 2008, 10:34:57 AM
It wasn't me who stole the full stop key from your keyboard, by the way. :)
I type the same way I speak.....you know that ! :D
With a burger in your mouth? ;)
Quote from: wherefromreferee? on October 23, 2008, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 23, 2008, 10:40:30 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 23, 2008, 10:34:57 AM
It wasn't me who stole the full stop key from your keyboard, by the way. :)
I type the same way I speak.....you know that ! :D
With a burger in your mouth? ;)
jeez you must know me well ! :o :D
Know Belfast Owl quite well and can confirm he is not Donal Mac. He is a long time supporter of Down GAA (not old enough to remember all 5 Sams) and highly opiniated as well. Will buy his round and drinks in the Bot. Don't know what he posts in the OWC as I have no interest in that board; supporting Tyrone will do it for me.
Good luck in tracking down this man of mystery. Watch thhis space
I hope its as cold and wet for the parade as it is today
As well as those by Éirígí and SF, protests will also be held by the IRSP and 32CSM in the Markets. Other protests will be held by RNU (Republican Network for Unity) and the WSM (Workers Solidarity Movement). No I've never heard of them either but I think the latter is an anarchist grouping.
Quote from: Donagh on October 28, 2008, 10:24:51 AM
As well as those by Éirígí and SF, protests will also be held by the IRSP and 32CSM in the Markets. Other protests will be held by RNU (Republican Network for Unity) and the WSM (Workers Solidarity Movement). No I've never heard of them either but I think the latter is an anarchist grouping.
Donagh you'll be spoilt for choice! ;)
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 28, 2008, 10:31:43 AM
Quote from: Donagh on October 28, 2008, 10:24:51 AM
As well as those by Éirígí and SF, protests will also be held by the IRSP and 32CSM in the Markets. Other protests will be held by RNU (Republican Network for Unity) and the WSM (Workers Solidarity Movement). No I've never heard of them either but I think the latter is an anarchist grouping.
Donagh you'll be spoilt for choice! ;)
Nah, I'll be with the Éirígí protest as they were the first to organise opposition. The Shinners are doing it for their own reasons, while I suspect some of the others might be out to start trouble.
I believe the Royal Irish march is divisive and sectarian
Mark Thompson
Monday, 27 October 2008
In England there was a self imposed moratorium by the British Army on homecoming parades because of anti-war protests.
In Ireland the British Army is responsible for the use of lethal force, shoot-to-kill, the use of rubber and plastic bullets, collusion, internment and torture — all with official impunity.
In Belfast we do not have to look to Iraq or Afghanistan. We have Ballymurphy, Springhill, and New Lodge massacres among a litany of events that claimed several hundred lives across the city yet there is to be a march in Belfast. This defies all logic, given the last 40 years, including this past decade seeking to move beyond conflict — unless the objective is otherwise.
If we are real about having a shared future with genuine respect for the views of all citizens, then unionists need to reflect upon the real implications of what this march means beyond political point scoring, given the legacy of unresolved hurt. The irony — the clear contradiction and double standard — is that it was the same unionists who sponsored this motion who reacted most when Casement Park was used to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the hunger strike — an event in the heart of west Belfast that in no way infringed upon unionists, civic space or used ratepayers' money.
This is not to deny that there exists a section of unionism that is genuine in their views concerning this event. Rather, it is the intention of a significant element that is more about the domination of nationalists, at the heart of which lies a campaign to thwart equality and rights in which extremism is intertwined and indistinguishable from.
A cabal of unionists, the same people who, on a regular basis, ridicule, belittle and undermine our Irish identity, culture and language, now want to parade through our city the British Army that unsuccessfully sought to subjugate us, killing our loved ones in the process. For them the primary objective is not about celebration but rather a guise for the continued attempt to humiliate. This is totally unacceptable.
Unionists need to fully understand the level of hurt and pain inflicted within the nationalist and republican community at the hands of the British Army which resonates deeply if they are to appreciate the import of this event. For the majority of Belfast citizens, and those bereaved by the British Army, the parade is crass and offensive. Is this the message unionism really wants to promote?
For example, would it be acceptable to unionists for former republican prisoners to march through the city centre, never mind receive a civic reception?
This issue goes to the heart of the truth about our past and the role the British Army played as we inclusively seek a way to address the actions of all actors to the conflict. The march is divisive and sectarian and will attract hangers-on who simply want to cheerlead in a triumphalist way. Those shops promoting loyalist paramilitary regalia across Belfast which during early summer were selling the Irish tricolour to be burned at Twelfth bonfires are now selling RIR welcome home union flags.
The relationship in particular between this regiment of the British Army, loyalist paramilitarism, collusion, sectarianism and criminality are well documented, which make this all the more unacceptable for the majority of citizens within Belfast who look on in horror at the antics of unionists in both putting forward this motion and those who supported it.
If it is the intention of those who sponsored the motion to maintain division and prevent change then they may succeed. If it is the will of those who genuinely want to foster better relations and understanding then they can find a better way of marking this event which is not contentious or provocative. The choice is theirs. They can put forward a motion suspending the parade and create a space where we can have positive dialogue about what is acceptable and unacceptable in celebrating such events. And which can contribute towards better understanding, assisting in dealing with our past constructively, and in creating a united city. However, they need to demonstrate leadership.
Last week the RUC George Cross Foundation held a service at St Anne's Cathedral. This was a dignified and fitting event for all those involved without controversy and one which the overwhelming majority of citizens across the city would have no objection to. Surely this is the type of event those who genuinely want to celebrate the return of the RIR can participate in without provocation and to which others, especially those affected by the actions of the British Army, are not insulted or their views made irrelevant.
Unionists, particularly the Alliance Party, need to reflect and weigh up the overall view and not the failed agendas of sectarian politics at Halla na Cathair.
Mark Thompson is director of Relatives for Justice
Just got this text message forwarded to me, Jesus now whose upping the anti!!
Sunday 2nd November
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS IN BELFAST CITY CENTRE, DON'T LET SEIN FEIN (sp) RUIN OUR SALUTE TO THE BRAVE THAT HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED FOR OUR QUEEN AND CROWN,.HE WHO DARES WINS! pass this on to all prods
Copied as I received it, this text is doing the rounds of the brethren as we speak.
B Specials with passports.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 28, 2008, 12:53:36 PM
Just got this text message forwarded to me, Jesus now whose upping the anti!!
Sunday 2nd November
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS IN BELFAST CITY CENTRE, DON'T LET SEIN FEIN (sp) RUIN OUR SALUTE TO THE BRAVE THAT HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED FOR OUR QUEEN AND CROWN,.HE WHO DARES WINS! pass this on to all prods
Copied as I received it, this text is doing the rounds of the brethren as we speak.
Thats what you get for giving your £5 to OWC.
Sad that its been turned into a SF V Unionist thing again. It shouldnt even be connected with the British Army and its history here. Plain and simple, the protestors should be from an "anti war" point of view, based purely on what they are doing in Iraq.
Sadly its not possible in the North, as it will end up being another "one side V the other" row.
I will be there simply to thank the brave men for their service, nothing more, nothing less.
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 28, 2008, 04:00:21 PM
I will be there simply to thank the brave men for their service, nothing more, nothing less.
What service is this?
I wish Sinn fein would put as much effort into running the country as they do organising Protests, the whole country is on its knees with the economy, job losses, education, the executive have not met now in 3-4 months and here they are organising a protest rally. Personally i couldnt give a f**k if the Britsh Army march up and down the street all day everyday, i wont go to see them, out of sight out of mind, and if it comes on tv turn the tv off. nobody is asking anyone to watch it,
I would love to have the power to pull each and everyone of the executives huge salaries until they get the country sorted, and we will soon see changes, its an absolute disgrace the way it is at the min
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 28, 2008, 04:00:21 PM
I will be there simply to thank the brave men for their service, nothing more, nothing less.
Yes I'ts true, Northern Ireland is now a safer place thanks to these mens "actions" in Iraq ::)
Murderous bloodthirsty cowards.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 28, 2008, 04:27:14 PM
Quote from: bignifanatic on October 28, 2008, 04:00:21 PM
I will be there simply to thank the brave men for their service, nothing more, nothing less.
Yes I'ts true, Northern Ireland is now a safer place thanks to these mens "actions" in Iraq ::)
Murderous bloodthirsty cowards.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 28, 2008, 04:27:14 PM
Yes I'ts true, Northern Ireland is now a safer place thanks to these mens "actions" in Iraq ::)
Murderous bloodthirsty cowards.
Do you think every member of the military in Iraq is a murderous bloodthirsty coward?
Quote from: nifan on October 28, 2008, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 28, 2008, 04:27:14 PM
Yes I'ts true, Northern Ireland is now a safer place thanks to these mens "actions" in Iraq ::)
Murderous bloodthirsty cowards.
Do you think every member of the military in Iraq is a murderous bloodthirsty coward?
The majority of them nifan. The ones with a bit of intelligence anyway. Enough to know fine well that what they are doing is plain wrong.
Maybe theres some there who honestly think they are there to liberate and spread democracy.
I wouldnt call them murderous or cowards, just incredibly stupid.
There's a certain amount of collective responsibility that has to be accepted by all members of the British armed forces for the actions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Ireland.
I think some people (of a Unionist persuasion) will support them purely because they are serving the british army, even if deep down they know what they are doing is wrong.
Sure certain politicians would even support them murdering innocent internet board members for having differing opinions on the subject.
Quote from: Donagh on October 28, 2008, 10:47:25 AM
I believe the Royal Irish march is divisive and sectarian
Mark Thompson
Monday, 27 October 2008
"In England there was..." etc
No doubt Donagh unintentionally overlooked the reply to the above in the following day's Belfast Telegraph:
March won't celebrate war, it will honour armed forces
By Michael Copeland
Tuesday, 28 October 2008
There is an old saying that there is nothing new under the sun, and if proof of that is required, we need look no further than the furore building around the incorrectly named RIR homecoming parade set to take place in Belfast this Sunday, November 2.
The event is actually a Combined or TriService parade organised by the Ministry of Defence through Headquarters Northern Ireland in response to an invitation extended by Belfast City Council. The event will see members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and others assemble and parade in the vicinity of Belfast City Hall
In an entirely reprehensible way, Sinn Fein has organised a counter demonstration in the same area on the same date and at a similar time. Incidentally, this tactic was adopted by supporters of Ian Paisley on November 30, 1968, when they attempted to thwart a civil rights march in Armagh City. Of even more concern are the intentions of so-called dissident republicans who are inviting people from all over the island of Ireland to a protest at Divis flats. Since they haven't notified the Parades Commission, they are pretty much free to do what they like in terms of the parading legislation.
Those who have set our society on this collision course would do well to examine the history of service given by the men and women of this island to the British Armed Forces and services over many centuries.
The Royal Irish is the last Irish infantry regiment of the line serving in the British Army, and is therefore the inheritor of traditions going back as far as 1688. In common with all its predecessors, it is unashamedly Irish in its traditions, uniform, music and mascot; it has as its motto the phrase Faugh a Ballagh from the Irish Fag an Bealach.
According to tradition, this was first used on March 5, 1811, at the battle of Barossa when a British attack against the French had faltered. The Coldstream Guards, who were in front of the 2nd Batt, 87th Regiment of Foot (forerunners of the Royal Irish) were not displaying much stomach to press the attack, but the Irish-speaking soldiers of the 87th roared 'Fag an Bealach' (clear the way), successfully attacking the French through the Coldstream lines. During the same engagement, Ensign Keogh lost his life attempting to take a French Eagle, their equivalent of a Regimental Colour. The Eagle however, was captured shortly afterwards by Sgt Patrick Masterson with the immortal words 'be jabbers, boys, oi have the cuckoo'
During the First World War almost 300,000 Irish men and women volunteered for service in the British Forces with almost 50,000 giving their lives. This story, forgotten for almost 100 years, is now the subject of much welcome research in the Irish Republic.
For me, one of the most poignant stories from that time relates to an incident in 1917 when elements of the 36th Ulster Division were to be withdrawn from the line to rest before a planned attack. They were replaced by soldiers of the 16th Irish Division. During the handover inspection, the two respective Commanding Officers visited a sandbagged bastion. The Northern Colonel said: "My men have built this place and called it Derry's walls; I daresay your men will change its name." With much emotion and handshaking, the Southern Officer declared that the men of Leinster "would hold Derry's walls on behalf of their northern comrades".
The end of the Great War saw an event that has, perhaps, the most relevance to that proposed for November 2, when several Irish Battalions of the British Army accompanied by their Bands paraded in the Falls Road district of Belfast to attend a Mass at St Peter's Cathedral to celebrate their safe return from that conflict.
The parade on November 2 cannot be taken as a celebration of war and can only be properly viewed as an appropriate recognition of those 'who must conduct the business of war when the business of politics fails'.
When we live in a democracy and accept the notions of freedom of speech and freedom of expression, we should not be surprised when we hear and see things with which we disagree. However, we must never forget that these freedoms were won and are guarded by the young men and women of the Armed Forces. No matter how much the organisers of these counter demonstrations attempt to disguise their motives, their actions will be judged as nasty, shallow, spiteful, indefensible and inappropriate.
Without doubt, republicans do have a right to fly in the face of the history of this island, if they so choose. Without doubt they have the right to seek permission to hold a protest on November 2. The question is whether they are morally correct to exercise such rights on this occasion.
Michael Copeland is an Ulster Unionist councillor and former member of the UDRhttp://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/march-wonrsquot-celebrate-war-it-will-honour-armed-forces-14017864.html
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 12:22:40 PM
Without doubt, republicans do have a right to fly in the face of the history of this island, if they so choose. Without doubt they have the right to seek permission to hold a protest on November 2. The question is whether they are morally correct to exercise such rights on this occasion.
Is it morally correct to invade countries & kill and maim countless women & children ??? :-\
IMHO, this debate is dead in the water. There is going to be parades on Sunday as as much rioting as you want, is going to occur because of these parades esp with the spides drinking all weekend & plenty of people from outside the city coming in to 'take part' in the parades
Quote from: full back on October 29, 2008, 12:32:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 12:22:40 PM
Without doubt, republicans do have a right to fly in the face of the history of this island, if they so choose. Without doubt they have the right to seek permission to hold a protest on November 2. The question is whether they are morally correct to exercise such rights on this occasion.
Is it morally correct to invade countries & kill and maim countless women & children ??? :-\
IMHO, this debate is dead in the water. There is going to be parades on Sunday as as much rioting as you want, is going to occur because of these parades esp with the spides drinking all weekend & plenty of people from outside the city coming in to 'take part' in the parades
As far as I'm concerned, the invasion of Afghanistan was and is entirely justified. (More importantly, according to the UN, it was, as well.) By contrast, I feel the invasion of Iraq was not justified. But that is not the point. It was not the various coalition armies who decided to invade. Rather, it was their (democratically elected) political masters who made these decisions and it was for the soldiers, sailors and airmen to do their duty and serve, as they pledged when they signed up.
Consequently, this Parade is not a referendum on the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq. Rather, it is an opportunity for the families, friends and loved ones of these servicemen and women to welcome them home safe and sound from the battlefield. As such, a short parade on a Sunday morning, through an otherwise quiet Belfast City centre, need trouble no-one who doesn't wish to be troubled.
Clearly the death of an Irish guy against the french 100 years ago is justification for the invasion of Iraq. There was no need to make up the weapons of mass destruction story at all.
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 12:45:25 PM
Rather, it is an opportunity for the families, friends and loved ones of these servicemen and women to welcome them home safe and sound from the battlefield.
And rally more young men and women to the call of Britan in their next invasion.
Quote from: Zapatista on October 29, 2008, 12:47:02 PM
Clearly the death of an Irish guy against the french 100 years ago is justification for the invasion of Iraq. There was no need to make up the weapons of mass destruction story at all.
Not for me it isn't. But my gripe over Iraq is with the politicians - chiefly Blair and Bush - who led us into this unnecessary and cruel war. Consequently, it is they whom anti-War protestors should be demonstrating against, not the "poor bloody infantry" who are sent in to clear up the politicians' mess.
Quote from: Zapatista on October 29, 2008, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 12:45:25 PM
Rather, it is an opportunity for the families, friends and loved ones of these servicemen and women to welcome them home safe and sound from the battlefield.
And rally more young men and women to the call of Britan in their next invasion.
The young men and women of Britain are (or should be) quite capable of making their up own minds on whether to join up or not. And if they should, they need only go to their nearest recruiting office, or recruitment display, of which there are any number open every day of the week throughout the UK, including NI.
Parades such as Sunday's might "inspire" some individuals to pursue an interest in the military which they might not otherwise have had. But any professional volunteer army worth its salt will not want recruits who are motivated solely by pipes and drums and banners etc. The business of war is much more serious than all that.
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 01:26:09 PM
The young men and women of Britain are (or should be) quite capable of making their up own minds on whether to join up or not.
So why the concern for the "poor bloody infantry" evil genius?
Everyone knows why you sign up
Quote from: full back on October 29, 2008, 01:30:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 01:26:09 PM
The young men and women of Britain are (or should be) quite capable of making their up own minds on whether to join up or not.
So why the concern for the "poor bloody infantry" evil genius?
Everyone knows why you sign up
They sign up to serve their country, in the knowledge that they may be asked to give their lives in battle.
They do not sign up to serve politicians who seek only to further their own selfish interests, even when these are contrary to the interests of the country as a whole.
Consequently, whilst I feel enormous personal sympathy for any soldier who falls in Afghanistan, I would agree that it "goes with the territory" of being a professional soldier.
Whereas in Iraq, my sympathy for the fallen individual is reinforced by my anger at the charlatans who sent him there in the first place.
Operation Ending Freedom (whatever was left of it) in Afghanistan has been acclaimed by Heroin traders/dealers/importers/users all around the world as a resounding success.
The Opium production must be close to hitting 9,000 tons a year compared to 185 tons before the invasion.
God bless the B Specials/UDR/RIR for their professional services rendered in helping to establish the circumstances for restoring Afghanistan's dominance and thereby ending the severe drought of heroin that hit the world market in 2001.
Quote from: Main Street on October 29, 2008, 02:52:50 PM
Operation Ending Freedom (whatever was left of it) in Afghanistan has been acclaimed by Heroin traders/dealers/importers/users all around the world as a resounding success.
The Opium production must be close to hitting 9,000 tons a year compared to 185 tons before the invasion.
God bless the B Specials/UDR/RIR for their professional services rendered in helping to establish the circumstances for restoring Afghanistan's dominance and thereby ending the severe drought of heroin that hit the world market in 2001.
If thats the case it should reduce costs to the user meaning they don't have to mug/rob as much, meaning we get to live in a safer society ;D
Quote from: Main Street on October 29, 2008, 02:52:50 PM
Operation Ending Freedom (whatever was left of it) in Afghanistan has been acclaimed by Heroin traders/dealers/importers/users all around the world as a resounding success.
The Opium production must be close to hitting 9,000 tons a year compared to 185 tons before the invasion.
God bless the B Specials/UDR/RIR for their professional services rendered in helping to establish the circumstances for restoring Afghanistan's dominance and thereby ending the severe drought of heroin that hit the world market in 2001.
Al Quaida launched a vicious terrorist attack on 9/11. Their leadership was in Afghanistan as guests of the ruling (but unelected) Taliban. The (democratically elected) US Government requested the Taliban to give them up. When they refused to do so, the US led an invasion to try to get Al Quaida for themselves. They did so with the full and unconditional backing of the United Nations. I am pleased that the UK agreed to join this operation. During the course of this invasion, the Taliban chose to ally itself with Al Quaida and so became part of the enemy faced by the Coalition forces. As such, I have no sympathy whatever for the Taliban, since they are medieval barbarians who, for instance, execute small girls for committing the "offence" of being able to read.
I greatly regret, however, that other Western nations, whose interests are equally threatened by Al Quaida, have declined to join the coalition in Afghanistan, since this means that the battle is so much harder to win. And one of the worst consequences of the present military stalemate is that it has allowed the heroin trade to flourish, thereby poisoning (mostly young) people throughout the world with addiction etc.
Of course, I don't expect people like Main Street, who are so clearly blinded by anti-British hatred, to see it that way. After all, such hatred is no different from e.g. that which saw other Irish people side with the Nazis against the Allies during the Second World War, two generations ago.
But just as the Nazis used anti-Semitism to further their cause, then the Taliban is using Heroin to further theirs. Or would Main Street deny that it is this latter who are controlling the heroin trade in Afghanistan and by extension, throughout the rest of the world?
Without wading through the previous pages my own opinion is that I dont agree with the parade. Leaving aside morality arguments about the validity of the campaigns, I think Soldiers should be paid a helluva lot more for the job they do, parades et al are a nonsense way to 'compensate' soldiers IMO.
'Al Quaida launched a vicious terrorist attack on 9/11.'
So, that was year zero? Nothing happened before that date involving America or American foreign policy? It was bin Laden who started it? The Israelis aren't c***ts? It's those nasty Arabs?
I find it interesting that huge amounts of northern Unionists support the war in Iraq, while proportionately far far less people in England, Scotland and Wales do.
I dont have stats or links to back this up, it's purely from experience, but it seems quite clearly the case.
I think this is because supporting the war (even when you know its wrong) equals showing your "Britishness"
Thats a sad state of affairs in my mind.
Quote from: red hander on October 29, 2008, 04:17:03 PM
'Al Quaida launched a vicious terrorist attack on 9/11.'
So, that was year zero? Nothing happened before that date involving America or American foreign policy? It was bin Laden who started it? The Israelis aren't c***ts? It's those nasty Arabs?
Bin Laden launched a murderous attack on the USA, killing over 3,000 innocent people, of every race and creed, from every part of the world.
Do you consider that he was justified in doing so, on account of US foreign policy?
Do you not accept the US had the right to pursue him for this?
Do you consider that the Taliban was justified in protecting him?
These are simple questions, which may be answered by a simple "Yes" or "No" and without recourse to idiotic and abhorrent "whataboutery"...
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 29, 2008, 04:52:18 PM
I find it interesting that huge amounts of northern Unionists support the war in Iraq, while proportionately far far less people in England, Scotland and Wales do.
I dont have stats or links to back this up, it's purely from experience, but it seems quite clearly the case.
I think this is because supporting the war (even when you know its wrong) equals showing your "Britishness"
Thats a sad state of affairs in my mind.
What is "your experience"?
EG, due to whats happened in the past I've decided to refrain from any interaction with you from this post on, which includes posting to you directly, commenting on your posts or replying to your posts directed to me.
Its for the best.
Evil Genius. Your understanding of the events leading up to and after Sep 11th are not clear enough for me. Firstly, it is not so simple to talk about "US Foreign Policy" without defining exactly what it was up to this point. US policy included the backing of Israel in their illegal incursions into Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. These brutal attacks resulted in the murder of 1000's of innocent muslim in these countries. Indeed, the Israelis watched on as Christian militias butchered all around them in refugee camps in lebanon. Most of Israels weapons and support and funding comes from the USA. Extreme muslims make the link that the US is equally responsible for their plight as israel are. The US helps dictators to susceed in countries like Iraq and saudi because the play ball. The dictator gets rich, the people stay poor. It is these people that Bin Laden fights for - muslims that are hard done by. I am not excusing the horrendous attacks of 9/11 but these are the reasons that they happened.
The Taliban are no more than a smattering of tribal war lords that couldn't have done anything about Bin Laden even if they wanted to. Afghanistan was already a wasteland destroyed by Saudi sponsored wars most recently and by Russian invasions before that (where the good old US trained Bin Laden holy warriors - knowing full well what his end objectives were). So the US, who forced the UN to obey by the way by threatening to go it alone anyway, blow the crap out of the wasteland that is Afghanistan dropping Cluster bombs on villages, torturing civilians - all the usual stuff they claim never happened. Of course Bin Laden is never caught.
Then suddenly, Bin Laden leaves the TV screen to be replaced by Sadam. Osama Bin Laden is on record as stating his total hatred for Sadam - the puppet of the west. Yet George W and Tony Blair ILLEGALLY invade Iraq, make up LIES about weapons of mass destruction and the rest is a bloody mess. BTW, both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been lost by the allies. Both countries are totally out of control. If you want evidence I suggest you read the last couple of chapters of Robert Fisks - The Great War for Civilisation and there you will find exactly what your british and US governments are. Murdering scum, just like Bin Laden.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 29, 2008, 05:13:31 PM
EG, due to whats happened in the past I've decided to refrain from any interaction with you from this post on, which includes posting to you directly, commenting on your posts or replying to your posts directed to me.
Its for the best.
It was a simple, unperjorative question, entirely objectively phrased. Perhaps if someone else asks the same question, you will feel able to answer it?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 29, 2008, 05:29:19 PM
Evil Genius. Your understanding of the events leading up to and after Sep 11th are not clear enough for me. Firstly, it is not so simple to talk about "US Foreign Policy" without defining exactly what it was up to this point. US policy included the backing of Israel in their illegal incursions into Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. These brutal attacks resulted in the murder of 1000's of innocent muslim in these countries. Indeed, the Israelis watched on as Christian militias butchered all around them in refugee camps in lebanon. Most of Israels weapons and support and funding comes from the USA. Extreme muslims make the link that the US is equally responsible for their plight as israel are. The US helps dictators to susceed in countries like Iraq and saudi because the play ball. The dictator gets rich, the people stay poor. It is these people that Bin Laden fights for - muslims that are hard done by. I am not excusing the horrendous attacks of 9/11 but these are the reasons that they happened.
The Taliban are no more than a smattering of tribal war lords that couldn't have done anything about Bin Laden even if they wanted to. Afghanistan was already a wasteland destroyed by Saudi sponsored wars most recently and by Russian invasions before that (where the good old US trained Bin Laden holy warriors - knowing full well what his end objectives were). So the US, who forced the UN to obey by the way by threatening to go it alone anyway, blow the crap out of the wasteland that is Afghanistan dropping Cluster bombs on villages, torturing civilians - all the usual stuff they claim never happened. Of course Bin Laden is never caught.
Then suddenly, Bin Laden leaves the TV screen to be replaced by Sadam. Osama Bin Laden is on record as stating his total hatred for Sadam - the puppet of the west. Yet George W and Tony Blair ILLEGALLY invade Iraq, make up LIES about weapons of mass destruction and the rest is a bloody mess. BTW, both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been lost by the allies. Both countries are totally out of control. If you want evidence I suggest you read the last couple of chapters of Robert Fisks - The Great War for Civilisation and there you will find exactly what your british and US governments are. Murdering scum, just like Bin Laden.
Believe it or not, there are elements of what you post with which I don't disagree. It's just that right or wrong, I do not see
any of it as justifying 9/11, nor preventing the USA from pursuing the 9/11 attackers into Afghanistan, when the Taliban refused to co-operate in doing so.
Sadly, however, I get the clear impression from your post that you must feel that prior US policy in Israel etc in some way
did justify Bin Laden's attack, or at least removed the moral justification of the USA in pursuing him and his allies (as well as being an implied condemnation of the United Nations when they authorised at the very highest level the invasion of Afghanistan)
Back to you.
He's not saying there was justification for 9/11, just that the USA aren't totally innocent.
Quote from: ziggysego on October 29, 2008, 05:48:27 PM
He's not saying there was justification for 9/11, just that the USA aren't totally innocent.
I agree the US aren't wholly innocent when it comes to their foreign policy etc (far from it, imo). But when he replies to a clear condemnation of the 9/11 attack with a rant about what the USA is doing in Israel etc, indeed refuses to condemn 9/11 unequivocally, the inference is clear. Namely, that he is less than sympathetic to the 3,000 entirely innocent victims of that atrocity, as well as unsympathetic to the actions of the USA in trying to bring the perpetrators to justice. Worse still he appear less than condemnatory of Al Quaida and the Taliban, who I personally think are some of the most odious barbarians on earth.
But hey, one man's terrorist... ::)
Meanwhile, back on the subject of the parade itself, here is this Board's favourite columnist's take from last week. I must say, I particularly appreciated his closing lines (emboldened) and look forward with fond anticipation to reading Donagh et als forensic, line-by-line rebuttal of the piece ("Load of Sh1te", "Myer's a bollox", "Stopped reading after the first sentence" etc)
Enjoy! ;)
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnis...ts-1505001.html
Shinners again show they are bitter infants
By Kevin Myers
Wednesday October 22 2008
All good men and women should rejoice at the decision of the Shinners to have counter-marches in Belfast to greet the return of the Royal Irish Regiment from active service in Afghanistan. I'm only sorry that I can't be there on the street, applauding them for their honesty and their decency in revealing, yet again, what a shower of pitiful and bitter infants they actually are.
And dear God, to think these people, not so long ago, were killing left, right and centre, and using the same moral compass that now causes them to protest at the return of Irish soldiers from UN-authorised duties fighting Islamo-fascists.
I imagine the debate preceding the decision to have counter-marches against the Royal Irish was probably conducted with the same intellectual gravity that the Shinners' forefathers had shown before throwing in their lot with Hitler.
If something is Brit, it's bad. Hence the Nazi agents being smuggled into Ireland with IRA assistance: hence the IRA lighting fires on the Black Mountain to guide Nazi bombers to Belfast; hence IRA U-boat missions to Ireland -- all in all, the Shinners' contribution to the Final Solution. And the Shinners can't say that all this was just part of a confused and ignorant past, because until recently, before someone cut it down, they continued to have annual commemorations at the statue of Sean Russell, the Nazi stooge who died in on his way to further the aims of the Third Reich in Ireland.
Grateful
Now, I confess, I'm profoundly grateful to the Shinner leadership that they've stopped killing people, even though I really don't know why they've done that, any more than I understand why they thought they had the right to start killing people in the first place. But there you are: having Shinners about the place is rather like having a demented uncle in the attic. You've no idea when he's going to stop knitting tea-cosies and instead, reach for the carving knife and resume his feud with the neighbours.
The timing and the reason are for him to decide, though not to explain; for no explanation is possible. And I have to say, that if the mad uncle in the attic is going to expend his energies complaining about Irish soldiers serving in Afghanistan, that's a considerable improvement on what he was doing before, which was murdering them in their homes.
Of course, it is irrelevant that in my lifetime there has barely been a more lawful war than that in Afghanistan: it is being fought on a UN mandate against an enemy which is an active ally of al-Qai'da. We know the calibre of this enemy; we know his project; it was encapsulated by the murder of Gayle Williams, the British aid worker who was assassinated the other day in Kabul, and by the regular murder of little girls in Talmand province who are guilty of the heinous crime of being able to spell. And of course, to remind you all, these were the fine people behind 9/11.
What I'd really, really like to do is to put some Afghan women democrats in the same room as a group of Shinners, and to get the latter to outline their position on Afghanistan to the former. Similarly, I'd love to have got the Shinners of yesteryear to sit down with a train-load of Jews bound for Auschwitz and explain to them why they supported the Nazis.
Or equally, I would love to have heard Mary Lou McDonald, MEP for Dublin, get up in the European Parliament and explain why three years ago she gave the annual oration at the statue to Sean Russell, the Nazi collaborator.
Ah well. It is not to be: alas, life is full of such little disappointments. And another little disappointment is that the general furore over the US presidential election means the US media are unlikely to notice that Sinn Fein is now taking an effectively pro-Taliban, pro-al-Qai'da stance. At least, the Shinners have sought permission from the Parades Commission to have their anti-Royal Irish march. Dissident republicans (who actually are visitors from the planet Zog) have announced that since they don't recognise the Parades Commission, they're not going to seek permission to have their Royal Irish counter-marches, and they're just going to go ahead with them anyway.
Which of course makes their marches illegal: and you can be reasonably sure that if the peelers enforce the law against the loonies from Zog, then the other Shinners, their slightly less demented cousins from Xog, will revert to type and start complaining about police brutality. But I suppose, at one level, one can understand the position the mad Zog-Xog family are in. The Provisional IRA has largely disarmed, though it prides itself on being an undefeated army: yet here the Shinners will see the British army marching through the streets of Belfast, thereby reminding people what an undefeated army really looks like, and worse, how utterly pointless the IRA war really was.
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 03:54:43 PM
I greatly regret, however, that other Western nations, whose interests are equally threatened by Al Quaida, have declined to join the coalition in Afghanistan, since this means that the battle is so much harder to win. And one of the worst consequences of the present military stalemate is that it has allowed the heroin trade to flourish, thereby poisoning (mostly young) people throughout the world with addiction etc.
Of course, I don't expect people like Main Street, who are so clearly blinded by anti-British hatred, to see it that way. After all, such hatred is no different from e.g. that which saw other Irish people side with the Nazis against the Allies during the Second World War, two generations ago.
But just as the Nazis used anti-Semitism to further their cause, then the Taliban is using Heroin to further theirs. Or would Main Street deny that it is this latter who are controlling the heroin trade in Afghanistan and by extension, throughout the rest of the world?
;D
I suppose that's what years of EG getting his arse kicked and ridiculed on this Board does to him.
Disagree with EG and you are similar to a Nazi supporter ;D
Drug Trafficking
It was the CIA backed Mujahideen who raised funds through Opium trade. It was called the US sponsored Drug trade.
Richard Davenport-Hines, an expert in the history of narcotics. eminent prize winning historian, author of
"The Pursuit of Oblivion: A Global History of Narcotics"
states
"US government agencies have been crucial in escalating this supply of heroin to the western world".on UK claims that Al Quaida profiteering from the drug trade
"This may be overstated, for drug trafficking does not seem to be a major source of money for his al-Qaeda network"
rather it is their opponents who are into the production.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1590827.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1590827.stm)
Gen. James L. Jones, the supreme allied commander for NATO,
Washington Post]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101654.html]Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101654.html)
"It is truly the Achilles' heel of Afghanistan," said in a recent speech at the Council on Foreign Relations. Afghanistan is NATO's biggest operation, with more than 30,000 troops. Drug cartels with their own armies engage in regular combat with NATO forces deployed in Afghanistan, he said. "It would be wrong to say that this is just the Taliban. I think I need to set that record straight," he added.
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 29, 2008, 04:17:03 PM
'Al Quaida launched a vicious terrorist attack on 9/11.'
So, that was year zero? Nothing happened before that date involving America or American foreign policy? It was bin Laden who started it? The Israelis aren't c***ts? It's those nasty Arabs?
Bin Laden launched a murderous attack on the USA, killing over 3,000 innocent people, of every race and creed, from every part of the world.
Do you consider that he was justified in doing so, on account of US foreign policy?
Do you not accept the US had the right to pursue him for this?
Do you consider that the Taliban was justified in protecting him?
These are simple questions, which may be answered by a simple "Yes" or "No" and without recourse to idiotic and abhorrent "whataboutery"...
Sorry, but it's not as SIMPLE as that ... nowhere do I say US policy justified 9/11 - it was a despicable attack - but it certainly helps to explain why those boyos crashed those planes into the buildings, killing 3000 innocent people
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 06:15:08 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on October 29, 2008, 05:48:27 PM
He's not saying there was justification for 9/11, just that the USA aren't totally innocent.
I agree the US aren't wholly innocent when it comes to their foreign policy etc (far from it, imo). But when he replies to a clear condemnation of the 9/11 attack with a rant about what the USA is doing in Israel etc, indeed refuses to condemn 9/11 unequivocally, the inference is clear. Namely, that he is less than sympathetic to the 3,000 entirely innocent victims of that atrocity, as well as unsympathetic to the actions of the USA in trying to bring the perpetrators to justice. Worse still he appear less than condemnatory of Al Quaida and the Taliban, who I personally think are some of the most odious barbarians on earth.
But hey, one man's terrorist... ::)
Well I called Bin Laden a murdering scum. I of course condemn the murder of 3000 innocents. Unlike you however, I don't think that the 3000 in the twin towers were more important than the 10's of thousands murder by the US, British and Israeli. I tried to show you why these things happen becasue if you don't understand the cause it can never be fixed. Since you state that I didn't unequivalently condemn the 9/11 killings may I ask you if you are willing to condemn the following...
- Israel incursion and murder of Palestinian Contrary to UN resolutions calling this act illegal
- Britain and US illegal invasion of Iraq.
- Britain and US torture of prisoners, as listed numerously on Amnesty Internationals website, contrary to the Geneva convention.
- Quantanamo Bay - Holding of men without trial or representation contrary to Geneva Convention.
- Britain and US use of depleted uranium in their weapons during Iraq war which has more than quadrupled cancer in Iraq.
- Britain and US use of cluster bomb in residential areas in both Iraq and Afghanistan contrary to the Geneva convention.
- Britain and US sponsor sanctions against Iraq preventing the sale of food and medicine and the net effect of the deaths of 500,000 children during the length of those sanctions (which did nothing to get rid of Sadam)
- Britain, US and German sale of poison gas to Iraq for use against Iran which was also used against their own people (Kurds)
I could go one but my fingers are soar!
well take them down then!
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 06:23:34 PM
The Provisional IRA has largely disarmed, though it prides itself on being an undefeated army: yet here the Shinners will see the British army marching through the streets of Belfast, thereby reminding people what an undefeated army really looks like, and worse, how utterly pointless the IRA war really was.
dear God , while the start of it was meaningless diatribe, the end above in bold really turns this around and instead of the shinners looking like the bitter infants which is the obv reason for this poor article, he shows himself up for being one.
why would sf or anyone with human compassion like a public commemoration of pre-meditated cold blooded killers parading through streets anywhere in an unbrainwashed world to celebrate their 'being' (if not their killing).
::)
as for the bigot of dunclug
any further development on the unionist party at least trying to hide themselves when they come onto 'fenian' websites in future?
that is if they cant contain themselves and feel obliged to disgracefully sectarianly rant at ordinary GAA folk !
Does Ziggylego ever post an opinion of his own? Just a question. His hole must be awful sore sitting on that fence all day long.
The Shinners have got this one badly wrong IMO.
In an attempt to take over leadership of the protests from Eirrigi (Sp) they risk destroying a lot of what they have achieved in the last 10 years. Sometimes preception is the reality and the preception in unionist areas is that this is a direct attack on them. They will react the way they always have done and we'll end up with a riot that will set relationships in the city back years. I work with lads from East Belfast. They are all going to the city centre on Sunday and one of them told me feelings in his area are now running as high as they were at the hight of Drumcree.
Sinn Fein leadership should do the right thing and call it off but unfortuantly they now find themselves unable to call of their protest without being seen to cave into pressure from unionists and Protestant church leaders.
So we all drift towards the waterfall in our little raft arguing over whos fault it is. I used to think the Shinners had a clever plan but now I know they just react to situations and have learned nothing from the Peace Process.
So why don't MoD call of the match? I don't know why they agreed to it in the first and I don't know why they won't call it off.
Hard to estimate stupidity of unionist councillors
Brian Feeney
By Brian Feeney The Wednesday Column
29/10/08
In Liverpool in November 2006, a group of marines were asked to leave a bar because they were in uniform. They'd been attending the funeral of a colleague killed in Basra.
At Birmingham airport earlier this year, 200 soldiers returning from Afghanistan were asked to change into civilian clothes after their flight had been diverted from RAF Brize Norton.
In March this year, it emerged that the commanding officer at RAF Wittering had an order in force banning air force personnel from wearing uniform in nearby Peterborough.
In each of these examples an angry reaction from local people to the role of the British armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan was the reason the soldiers were advised not to wear uniform.
Soldiers in uniform and their wives have been subjected to a torrent of abuse. In one case in Peterborough two men kicked the car of the wife of a RAF officer because they saw his mess uniform hanging in the back of the car.
It's not just in Belfast that people object to the British army. The deployment of British forces in an illegal invasion of Iraq and the questionable motives for supporting the Americans in Afghanistan have raised hackles all over the world.
In Belfast however there's the added dimension of the legacy of British forces in the north.
Unionist councillors in Belfast knew full well what they were doing when they proposed a parade through the city centre.
Past experience shows it's impossible to underestimate the stupidity and sheer bloody-mindedness of unionist councillors. Their real motivation in demanding such a parade is only made more obvious in every specious, dishonest and disingenuous interview you listen to.
They knew perfectly well that insisting on such a parade against the wishes of half the population of Belfast meant making a political football out of the men and women marching. They knew perfectly well that it is a divisive proposal and proposed it because it is.
They knew that there would be protest demonstrations. They knew there would be counter-demonstrations leading to potential trouble. Some unionist councillors are now actively encouraging such counter-demonstrations.
There are posters all over loyalist districts in east, west and north Belfast urging people to 'Support our Troops'. It is widely believed that the UDA are involved in this poster campaign.
You might think that before the motion got to council someone in authority in the DUP would have had a word with one of his eejits in Belfast city council and said "don't even think about this. You're going to cause trouble on the streets and in the city centre".
No chance. That might have been acting responsibly. Unionist councillors of all shades are only too delighted to have a chance to claim ownership of the British army and reinforce its identification with loyalism.
The insistence on a march past in Belfast and the poster campaign are open invitations for every loyalist yahoo in Belfast to come out and strike a blow in the name of loyalty.
Unionists who pressed ahead in the full knowledge of these consequences also knew that such a provocative parade in a divided city would inevitably produce an outraged response from groups like Eirigi who see a glorious opportunity to bring out any fenian yahoo available to strike a blow for republicanism.
Some guys will travel a good distance to have their chance. Better still, they have a chance to upstage Sinn Fein who intend to obey the law in their parade.
Unionist councillors have succeeded in creating the circumstances for potentially the most serious confrontation in Belfast for years. They must be delighted because that was exactly what they had in mind.
Voting through a march past was like what you do with a firework – light the blue touch paper and retire. Nothing to do with me guv. The yahoos on each side will do the job for you.
Sit back now and listen to the nauseating excuses and pretexts from these same unionists who set the scene for what will happen at the weekend.
Bear in mind that major cities across Britain have deemed it too controversial to have parades and the soldiers really are 'their' soldiers instead of being identified with one community.
QuoteThey knew that there would be protest demonstrations. They knew there would be counter-demonstrations leading to potential trouble.
The "look what you made me do" argument.
I agree with Feeney's main point about the bloody-mindedness of those who are insisting on having this parade. But do the other side have to facilitate them and fulfill their agenda with the Pavlovian response that's required - a protest parade/demonstration? Is that not just about the stupidest response imaginable, on every level? Doesn't it portray those organising the protest as mere puppets of the malign forces behind the original parade, doing exactly as they are required, expected and programmed to do?
Wouldn't the most sensible, sophisticated and devastatingly effective response on just about every conceivable level have been to deny the parade its only purpose by ignoring it. That would also have scored propaganda points for the side of the argument that not only refuses to initiate provocative taunting, but is also sophisticated and advanced enough to ignore it or laugh at it. But no, the programmed response is too powerful.
What, very precisely please, is the counter demonstration expected to achieve?
Quote from: Hardy on October 30, 2008, 10:10:47 AM
QuoteThey knew that there would be protest demonstrations. They knew there would be counter-demonstrations leading to potential trouble.
The "look what you made me do" argument.
I agree with Feeney's main point about the bloody-mindedness of those who are insisting on having this parade. But do the other side have to facilitate them and fulfill their agenda with the Pavlovian response that's required - a protest parade/demonstration? Is that not just about the stupidest response imaginable, on every level? Doesn't it portray those organising the protest as mere puppets of the malign forces behind the original parade, doing exactly as they are required, expected and programmed to do?
Wouldn't the most sensible, sophisticated and devastatingly effective response on just about every conceivable level have been to deny the parade its only purpose by ignoring it. That would also have scored propaganda points for the side of the argument that not only refuses to initiate provocative taunting, but is also sophisticated and advanced enough to ignore it or laugh at it. But no, the programmed response is too powerful.
What, very precisely please, is the counter demonstration expected to achieve?
I agree with you Hardy but Sinn Fein only organised their parade when they found out Eirigi were organising one. They are reacting to them rather than the unionists. The Shinners are more worried about Eirigi being seen to lead a "republican protest" than they are about how things pan out on the streets on Sunday.
Quote from: Hardy on October 30, 2008, 10:10:47 AM
QuoteThey knew that there would be protest demonstrations. They knew there would be counter-demonstrations leading to potential trouble.
The "look what you made me do" argument.
I agree with Feeney's main point about the bloody-mindedness of those who are insisting on having this parade. But do the other side have to facilitate them and fulfill their agenda with the Pavlovian response that's required - a protest parade/demonstration? Is that not just about the stupidest response imaginable, on every level? Doesn't it portray those organising the protest as mere puppets of the malign forces behind the original parade, doing exactly as they are required, expected and programmed to do?
Wouldn't the most sensible, sophisticated and devastatingly effective response on just about every conceivable level have been to deny the parade its only purpose by ignoring it. That would also have scored propaganda points for the side of the argument that not only refuses to initiate provocative taunting, but is also sophisticated and advanced enough to ignore it or laugh at it. But no, the programmed response is too powerful.
What, very precisely please, is the counter demonstration expected to achieve?
Hardy you're missing the point that I outlined 46 pages ago. As the proposed route of this parade passes by two nationalist enclaves it will be impossible to ignore it due to the security operation which will be put in place before and after. The proposed protest is an attempt to keep a lid on the inevitable unrest and channel the protest in a more peaceful direction. However the Shinners were too late on the ball this time as the pace had already be set by Éirígí. They may keep their own protest peaceful, but while the SF heavy hitters are concentrating on keeping their own in line in the city centre, the real potential for trouble lies in the Markets and Short Strand where the IRSP and 32CSM will be organising the counter demonstrations
Of course. All politicians are more wary of their opponents on their "own" side than those on the opposite side. (For clarity, I was including the combination of groupings organising the protests against the main parade - éirigí, SF, etc. - as "the other side").
Fair enough, Donagh, if that's Éirigí's purpose. What form will the éirigí demonstration take and how is it expected to keep a lid on things? (Sorry if it's been covered - 46 pages is a bit too much research at present).
Quote from: Hardy on October 30, 2008, 10:40:46 AM
Fair enough, Donagh, if that's Éirigí's purpose. What form will the éirigí demonstration take and how is it expected to keep a lid on things? (Sorry if it's been covered - 46 pages is a bit too much research at present).
I was thinking more of the Shinners trying to keep a lid on things by using their protest as a valve to release the tension over the security operation and everything that will come with that. As far as Éirigí is concerned, I came into contact with them quite a bit during the recent referendum campaign so I'm prepared at this stage to give them the benefit of the doubt and take it at face value that their's is a principled protest against the actions of the British Army in recent conflicts. In saying that most of the Éirigí people I know as southern based lefties. How the recent influx of northern ex-IRA people into their ranks will change their methods, I've no idea.
Quote from: Main Street on October 29, 2008, 06:34:57 PM
Disagree with EG and you are similar to a Nazi supporter ;D
No, my point was that anti-British hatred amongst a section of the Irish population is no different now from it was e.g. two generations ago, when it manifested itself in support for Nazism. (Besides, don't you mean disagree with President McAleese or Father Alex Reid, and find yourself labelled a Nazi supporter? ::))
Quote from: Main Street on October 29, 2008, 06:34:57 PM
Drug Trafficking
It was the CIA backed Mujahideen who raised funds through Opium trade. It was called the US sponsored Drug trade.
Richard Davenport-Hines, an expert in the history of narcotics. eminent prize winning historian, author of
"The Pursuit of Oblivion: A Global History of Narcotics"
states
"US government agencies have been crucial in escalating this supply of heroin to the western world".
And how does the present UN-approved war in Afghanistan qualify as "US government agencies escalating the supply of heroin to the western world"?
Quote from: Main Street on October 29, 2008, 06:34:57 PM
on UK claims that Al Quaida profiteering from the drug trade
"This may be overstated, for drug trafficking does not seem to be a major source of money for his al-Qaeda network"
rather it is their opponents who are into the production.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1590827.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1590827.stm)
I didn't claimn Al Quiada was profiting from Heroin, but the Taliban. And the Taliban are their Allies, not their opponents.
Quote from: Main Street on October 29, 2008, 06:34:57 PM
Gen. James L. Jones, the supreme allied commander for NATO,
Washington Post]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101654.html]Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101654.html)
"It is truly the Achilles' heel of Afghanistan," said in a recent speech at the Council on Foreign Relations. Afghanistan is NATO's biggest operation, with more than 30,000 troops. Drug cartels with their own armies engage in regular combat with NATO forces deployed in Afghanistan, he said. "It would be wrong to say that this is just the Taliban. I think I need to set that record straight," he added.
Obviously the Taliban do not control the Heroin trade in the areas which they do not control. That was the case even before they were deposed from power in Kabul. But the key point is that the US-led forces are fighting both the Taliban and the various other warlords etc who remain outside the elected coalition Government of President Karzai.
More to the point - which you appear to ignore as an inconvenience, perhaps? - is that the war in Afghanistan is entirely UN-approved. And moving back to the subject of this thread, regardless of what one thinks about Aghanistan etc, that conflict is the responsibility of the politicians who ordered it. Sunday's Parade is an opportunity for the friends, families and loved ones of the RIR to welcome them home safe and sound from their Tour of Duty.
The fact that various Republican groups feel the need to catch buses from all over the country to get into Belfast City Centre on a Sunday morning, when the place is otherwise pretty quiet, so as to be properly "offended", is what is significant (and repellent, imo)
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 29, 2008, 08:21:29 PM
Well I called Bin Laden a murdering scum. I of course condemn the murder of 3000 innocents. Unlike you however, I don't think that the 3000 in the twin towers were more important than the 10's of thousands murder by the US, British and Israeli. I tried to show you why these things happen becasue if you don't understand the cause it can never be fixed. Since you state that I didn't unequivalently condemn the 9/11 killings may I ask you if you are willing to condemn the following...
- Israel incursion and murder of Palestinian Contrary to UN resolutions calling this act illegal
- Britain and US illegal invasion of Iraq.
- Britain and US torture of prisoners, as listed numerously on Amnesty Internationals website, contrary to the Geneva convention.
- Quantanamo Bay - Holding of men without trial or representation contrary to Geneva Convention.
- Britain and US use of depleted uranium in their weapons during Iraq war which has more than quadrupled cancer in Iraq.
- Britain and US use of cluster bomb in residential areas in both Iraq and Afghanistan contrary to the Geneva convention.
- Britain and US sponsor sanctions against Iraq preventing the sale of food and medicine and the net effect of the deaths of 500,000 children during the length of those sanctions (which did nothing to get rid of Sadam)
- Britain, US and German sale of poison gas to Iraq for use against Iran which was also used against their own people (Kurds)
I could go one but my fingers are soar!
I would condemn most of what you list, actually (forgive me if I don't specify which, my fingers are soar).
But that is hardly the point. What happened on 9/11 was quite simply wrong and the US was entirely justified in leading a coalition to try to seize the perpetrators. Which is not just my judgement, but that of the United Nations (something which all the anti-American and anti-British posters on this Board refuse to address, btw).
Therefore, the RIR were perfectly entitled to be in Afghanistan and those people in NI who wish to, should be perfectly entitled to welcome them home safe and sound.
Of course, those people who think differently should be entitled to demonstrate their opposition. However, it is the height of irresponsibility to do so in the cynical manner of Sinn Fein, whereby they deliberately organised a time and route to clash with the RIR parade, even changing the time following the MOD changing the time of their parade. Worse still that they were at least partly motivated by the activities of Eirige i.e. SF were less concerned about proper protest, and more fearful of losing ground to other Republican groupings in the struggle to demonstrate their true Anti-Brit credentials.
There is no earthly reason why SF couldn't have organised an anti-War demo of their own in West Belfast on Sunday morning, or in Central Belfast at another time, except that they'd rather have a "battleground", than the "moral high ground".
Consequently, as Kevin Myers so perceptively pointed out, with these tactics, they are not one whit different from e.g. Paisley, when he organised his own counter demonstrations at the time of the Civil Rights campaign.
Disgraceful.
Andytown News is agin it.
Editorial
It didn't work for Paisley and it isn't going to work for us today
Andersonstown News Thursday
Counterdemonstrations – often ugly and bitter – were the modus operandi of Paisleyism, that twisted and nihilistic political philosophy which caused to so much mayhem.
Thankfully, they have never been part of the toolbox of nationalism — not least because counter-protests are usually counterproductive.
Paisley, of course, for all his bluster, merely served to give an elevated platform to the civil rights cause and to expose the narrow-mindedness of his own supporters.
Therefore, the news that republicans are to stage a counterdemonstration to the 'welcome home' parade and rally for the British army came as a surprise to many nationalists. It's a fact that Belfast is split — fairly evenly — between those who regard the returning troops as heroes and those who regard them as representatives of a foreign army involved in an illegal war and occupation.
Unionists, especially working class unionists who historically provided the cannon-fodder for the British army, will view the welcome home reception as an opportunity to fly the flag for the union. Nationalists, however, will view with some distaste the glorification of war and the fact that the reception has been given the official seal of approval by Belfast City Council. But no matter how split the city may be, surely we should now be mature enough to allow both views to have their day.
When nationalists won the right – at the cost of many lives – to protest for civil rights in Belfast city centre, it was never the intention to deny anyone else the same right. That means nationalists, no matter how upset at the heroes' welcome being given one of the most discredited regiments in the discredited British army, must tolerate and make space for this welcome home rally. They can disassociate themselves from the welcome home reception – this paper does that in no uncertain terms – and should exercise their right to protest against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the record of the UDR/RIR.
However, bringing nationalists on to the streets of downtown Belfast to stage a counterdemonstration against the returning troops will be counterproductive to the republican cause.
The counterdemonstration runs the risk of being hijacked by the type of people who attacked the police and engaged in rioting in Lurgan recently. It may also encourage loyalists to stage a counterdemonstration to the next republican march into Belfast city centre. But most importantly, the anti-war message will be lost in the media focus on the confrontation between the opposing demonstrations. Note that to date, many more column inches have been spent discussing the protest rather than its purpose.
Even at this late stage, would it not of more benefit to the republican cause if the anti-war and anti-UDR/RIR protest was moved to another date? The same points could be made as forcefully and would be heard much more clearly without the risk of damaging steadily improving inter-community relations in Belfast
Quote from: Bacon on October 30, 2008, 09:24:59 AM
I used to think the Shinners had a clever plan but now I know they just react to situations and have learned nothing from the Peace Process.
Oh SF understand the "Peace Process" [
sic] only too well - they were part of it, after all. No, the problem for them is twofold. On the one hand, they're no longer a "physical force movement", so they can't impose their former brand of "community justice" in their natural constituencies. Nor are they ready unequivocably to endorse the PSNI as the force of law and order in their stead. Consequently, various dissident groups, hoods, anti-social elements, drug-dealers etc are moving in to fill the vacuum, to the dismay and discomfort of SF.
On the other hand, in their new role as constitutional politicians in Stormont etc, far from this being seen to move us all closer to the United Ireland they promised us, it is increasingly being seen as just their helping to administer British Rule in Ireland, on British-funded salaries. Which, as the Border question recedes in peoples' minds, might be fair enough if the people in their constituencies were seeing significant benefit in their daily lives (jobs, health, education etc). But they manifestly are not.
Therefore SF cannot move the border issue forward; they are unable to make progress over "normal" political issues; they have foresworn use of the bomb and bullet. Which means their only political strategy is to go back to the old days of street demonstrations and protests. Which would be bad enough, were it not for the tactics they have cynically chosen for Sunday. That is, their demo will comprise a tightly marshalled 500, so that they will be able to claim that they were there in the vanguard opposing "Bruddish Imperialisum", but should violence break out, then they can claim that this was because other Republicans were only defending themselves in the face of intolerable Brit provocation and blah, blah blah...
Quote from: Bacon on October 30, 2008, 09:24:59 AM
So why don't MoD call of the match? I don't know why they agreed to it in the first and I don't know why they won't call it off.
Why should they? This was a perfectly peaceful opportunity for friends and family to welcome their loved ones home, in a location and at a time which was offending nobody (at least nobody who wasn't absolutely determined to be offended). Moreover, when they heard SF were organising a counter demo, the MOD moved the time of their parade, to avoid a clash. SF then moved the time of
their parade, to
ensure a clash.
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 30, 2008, 11:48:28 AM
Oh SF understand the "Peace Process" [sic] only too well - they were part of it, after all. No, the problem for them is twofold. On the one hand, they're no longer a "physical force movement", so they can't impose their former brand of "community justice" in their natural constituencies. Nor are they ready unequivocably to endorse the PSNI as the force of law and order in their stead. Consequently, various dissident groups, hoods, anti-social elements, drug-dealers etc are moving in to fill the vacuum, to the dismay and discomfort of SF.
On the other hand, in their new role as constitutional politicians in Stormont etc, far from this being seen to move us all closer to the United Ireland they promised us, it is increasingly being seen as just their helping to administer British Rule in Ireland, on British-funded salaries. Which, as the Border question recedes in peoples' minds, might be fair enough if the people in their constituencies were seeing significant benefit in their daily lives (jobs, health, education etc). But they manifestly are not.
Therefore SF cannot move the border issue forward; they are unable to make progress over "normal" political issues; they have foresworn use of the bomb and bullet. Which means their only political strategy is to go back to the old days of street demonstrations and protests. Which would be bad enough, were it not for the tactics they have cynically chosen for Sunday. That is, their demo will comprise a tightly marshalled 500, so that they will be able to claim that they were there in the vanguard opposing "Bruddish Imperialisum", but should violence break out, then they can claim that this was because other Republicans were only defending themselves in the face of intolerable Brit provocation and blah, blah blah...
If you must insist on contributing to this thread, please stay on topic. There's a good lad...
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 30, 2008, 11:04:10 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 29, 2008, 06:34:57 PM
Disagree with EG and you are similar to a Nazi supporter ;D
No, my point was that anti-British hatred amongst a section of the Irish population is no different now from it was e.g. two generations ago, when it manifested itself in support for Nazism. (Besides, don't you mean disagree with President McAleese or Father Alex Reid, and find yourself labelled a Nazi supporter? ::))
Quote from: Main Street on October 29, 2008, 06:34:57 PM
Drug Trafficking
It was the CIA backed Mujahideen who raised funds through Opium trade. It was called the US sponsored Drug trade.
Richard Davenport-Hines, an expert in the history of narcotics. eminent prize winning historian, author of
"The Pursuit of Oblivion: A Global History of Narcotics"
states
"US government agencies have been crucial in escalating this supply of heroin to the western world".
And how does the present UN-approved war in Afghanistan qualify as "US government agencies escalating the supply of heroin to the western world"?
Quote from: Main Street on October 29, 2008, 06:34:57 PM
on UK claims that Al Quaida profiteering from the drug trade
"This may be overstated, for drug trafficking does not seem to be a major source of money for his al-Qaeda network"
rather it is their opponents who are into the production.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1590827.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1590827.stm)
I didn't claimn Al Quiada was profiting from Heroin, but the Taliban. And the Taliban are their Allies, not their opponents.
Quote from: Main Street on October 29, 2008, 06:34:57 PM
Gen. James L. Jones, the supreme allied commander for NATO,
Washington Post]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101654.html]Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101654.html)
"It is truly the Achilles' heel of Afghanistan," said in a recent speech at the Council on Foreign Relations. Afghanistan is NATO's biggest operation, with more than 30,000 troops. Drug cartels with their own armies engage in regular combat with NATO forces deployed in Afghanistan, he said. "It would be wrong to say that this is just the Taliban. I think I need to set that record straight," he added.
Obviously the Taliban do not control the Heroin trade in the areas which they do not control. That was the case even before they were deposed from power in Kabul. But the key point is that the US-led forces are fighting both the Taliban and the various other warlords etc who remain outside the elected coalition Government of President Karzai.
More to the point - which you appear to ignore as an inconvenience, perhaps? - is that the war in Afghanistan is entirely UN-approved. And moving back to the subject of this thread, regardless of what one thinks about Aghanistan etc, that conflict is the responsibility of the politicians who ordered it. Sunday's Parade is an opportunity for the friends, families and loved ones of the RIR to welcome them home safe and sound from their Tour of Duty.
The fact that various Republican groups feel the need to catch buses from all over the country to get into Belfast City Centre on a Sunday morning, when the place is otherwise pretty quiet, so as to be properly "offended", is what is significant (and repellent, imo)
Yet again EG your facts are wrong. When the Taliban took power in Afghanistan, the export of Heroin dropped to record lows. The Taliban were totally against drug use as per their strict code of sharia law. Anyone caught with drugs would have their head cut off! When the Taliban were overthrown and the heros from the US and UK joined forces with the northern alliance (another bunch of nasty butchers) heroin trade got up to highest levels ever experienced by Afghanistan as local warlords found that no one was policiing their activities and so selling heroin again was the crop of choice. There is zero evidence that the Taliban or Al Quaida were selling drugs to fund war efforts. Of course, the invading armies would like to tells us otherwise.
Quote from: Donagh on October 30, 2008, 11:54:40 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 30, 2008, 11:48:28 AM
Oh SF understand the "Peace Process" [sic] only too well - they were part of it, after all. No, the problem for them is twofold. On the one hand, they're no longer a "physical force movement", so they can't impose their former brand of "community justice" in their natural constituencies. Nor are they ready unequivocably to endorse the PSNI as the force of law and order in their stead. Consequently, various dissident groups, hoods, anti-social elements, drug-dealers etc are moving in to fill the vacuum, to the dismay and discomfort of SF.
On the other hand, in their new role as constitutional politicians in Stormont etc, far from this being seen to move us all closer to the United Ireland they promised us, it is increasingly being seen as just their helping to administer British Rule in Ireland, on British-funded salaries. Which, as the Border question recedes in peoples' minds, might be fair enough if the people in their constituencies were seeing significant benefit in their daily lives (jobs, health, education etc). But they manifestly are not.
Therefore SF cannot move the border issue forward; they are unable to make progress over "normal" political issues; they have foresworn use of the bomb and bullet. Which means their only political strategy is to go back to the old days of street demonstrations and protests. Which would be bad enough, were it not for the tactics they have cynically chosen for Sunday. That is, their demo will comprise a tightly marshalled 500, so that they will be able to claim that they were there in the vanguard opposing "Bruddish Imperialisum", but should violence break out, then they can claim that this was because other Republicans were only defending themselves in the face of intolerable Brit provocation and blah, blah blah...
If you must insist on contributing to this thread, please stay on topic.
I thought the topic was Sunday's parade, which inevitably led to discussion of SF's counter demonstration, which I attempted to put in context with my post.
Are you embarrassed at SF's discomfort being exposed for all the world to see - even in that august organ, the "Angrytown News"? :D
Or are you more embarrassed at having been excluded from the "Famous Five Hundred", and having to slum it with the southern Lefties and Northern ex-Provos of Eirige? ;)
Quote from: Donagh on October 30, 2008, 11:54:40 AM
There's a good lad...
It's always a sign of your personal discomfort when you resort to condescension and petty personal jibes. And that always amuses me.
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 30, 2008, 11:20:12 AM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 29, 2008, 08:21:29 PM
Well I called Bin Laden a murdering scum. I of course condemn the murder of 3000 innocents. Unlike you however, I don't think that the 3000 in the twin towers were more important than the 10's of thousands murder by the US, British and Israeli. I tried to show you why these things happen becasue if you don't understand the cause it can never be fixed. Since you state that I didn't unequivalently condemn the 9/11 killings may I ask you if you are willing to condemn the following...
- Israel incursion and murder of Palestinian Contrary to UN resolutions calling this act illegal
- Britain and US illegal invasion of Iraq.
- Britain and US torture of prisoners, as listed numerously on Amnesty Internationals website, contrary to the Geneva convention.
- Quantanamo Bay - Holding of men without trial or representation contrary to Geneva Convention.
- Britain and US use of depleted uranium in their weapons during Iraq war which has more than quadrupled cancer in Iraq.
- Britain and US use of cluster bomb in residential areas in both Iraq and Afghanistan contrary to the Geneva convention.
- Britain and US sponsor sanctions against Iraq preventing the sale of food and medicine and the net effect of the deaths of 500,000 children during the length of those sanctions (which did nothing to get rid of Sadam)
- Britain, US and German sale of poison gas to Iraq for use against Iran which was also used against their own people (Kurds)
I could go one but my fingers are soar!
I would condemn most of what you list, actually (forgive me if I don't specify which, my fingers are soar).
But that is hardly the point. What happened on 9/11 was quite simply wrong and the US was entirely justified in leading a coalition to try to seize the perpetrators. Which is not just my judgement, but that of the United Nations (something which all the anti-American and anti-British posters on this Board refuse to address, btw).
Therefore, the RIR were perfectly entitled to be in Afghanistan and those people in NI who wish to, should be perfectly entitled to welcome them home safe and sound.
Of course, those people who think differently should be entitled to demonstrate their opposition. However, it is the height of irresponsibility to do so in the cynical manner of Sinn Fein, whereby they deliberately organised a time and route to clash with the RIR parade, even changing the time following the MOD changing the time of their parade. Worse still that they were at least partly motivated by the activities of Eirige i.e. SF were less concerned about proper protest, and more fearful of losing ground to other Republican groupings in the struggle to demonstrate their true Anti-Brit credentials.
There is no earthly reason why SF couldn't have organised an anti-War demo of their own in West Belfast on Sunday morning, or in Central Belfast at another time, except that they'd rather have a "battleground", than the "moral high ground".
Consequently, as Kevin Myers so perceptively pointed out, with these tactics, they are not one whit different from e.g. Paisley, when he organised his own counter demonstrations at the time of the Civil Rights campaign.
Disgraceful.
Why don't you tell me which ones you don't condemn?
If it is ok for the USA to invade a country to catch those responsible for 9/11 is it then ok for the 1000's of families of people blown to smithereens by the US and UK in Iraq/Afghanistan to launch a military action against the UK and US. If it is by your logic, then that excuses the people who blew up the twin towers as they were acting out of a sense of revenge for US policy in the middle east. So it is clear your argument is self defeating.
The war in Afghanistan was sanctioned by UN only after the US threatened to act unilatarily. They forced the hand of the UN by attempted discrediting of them. The same as they did in Iraq when they tried to discredit the arms inspectors and even told us all they would invade Iraq even if no weapons of mass destruction were found. Legal or not the invasion of Afghanistan was a ppointless exercise that did not achieve one goal. The country is now an even more lawless place than it ever was and the US are cutting troops and are leaving the warlords, northern alliance and taliban to blow the crap out of each other.
Robin Livingstone would need to watch that he does not receive any more angry phone calls from Gerry after that editorial.
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 30, 2008, 12:08:55 PM
I thought the topic was Sunday's parade, which inevitably led to discussion of SF's counter demonstration, which I attempted to put in context with my post.
The thread topic is obvious and there was no mention of the parade in anything you posted. Now as I said please keep on topic and stop ruining the thread with your irrelevant diatribes. We wouldn't want you having to serve out another ban. Now be a good lad and play nice.
Hardy,
I object to the britsh army parade simply because its an armed force marching through an occupied territory. Quite simply, in my view they shouldnt be there in the first place.
But, relaxing a little, did the GFA mean anything to anyone? Didnt it recognise that there is a large percentage of the six counties that dont consider themselves british? Therefore why are they trying to rub our noses in it? Unionist arrogance continues unabatted - they wouldn't even welcome the Tyrone team up here, but they want us to welcome the british military.
Orior, why are you telling me that? I'm against the parade too, pretty much for the reasons Feeney states. My point was that holding a counter parade was not the appropriate response.
Quote from: Hardy on October 30, 2008, 12:48:42 PM
Orior, why are you telling me that? I'm against the parade too, pretty much for the reasons Feeney states. My point was that holding a counter parade was not the appropriate response.
Oh, okay, fair enough.
Quote from: Donagh on October 30, 2008, 10:36:04 AM
Hardy you're missing the point that I outlined 46 pages ago. As the proposed route of this parade passes by two nationalist enclaves it will be impossible to ignore it due to the security operation which will be put in place before and after. The proposed protest is an attempt to keep a lid on the inevitable unrest and channel the protest in a more peaceful direction. However the Shinners were too late on the ball this time as the pace had already be set by Éirígí. They may keep their own protest peaceful, but while the SF heavy hitters are concentrating on keeping their own in line in the city centre, the real potential for trouble lies in the Markets and Short Strand where the IRSP and 32CSM will be organising the counter demonstrations
Have you not missed the point re the fact that the parade doesn't actually pass by either of these areas? That was probably about 45 pages ago, before this thread got sidetracked.
Furthermore, had a big deal not been made of this, most people would still have been in bed on a Sunday morning. And the attendance at the parade (i.e. support) would most likely have been insignificant.
(P.S. Just for the record again, i do think the parade is daft and i was/am against the war in Iraq - but i wouldn't be going out of my way on a Sunday morning just to be confrontational.)
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 30, 2008, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 30, 2008, 10:36:04 AM
Hardy you're missing the point that I outlined 46 pages ago. As the proposed route of this parade passes by two nationalist enclaves it will be impossible to ignore it due to the security operation which will be put in place before and after. The proposed protest is an attempt to keep a lid on the inevitable unrest and channel the protest in a more peaceful direction. However the Shinners were too late on the ball this time as the pace had already be set by Éirígí. They may keep their own protest peaceful, but while the SF heavy hitters are concentrating on keeping their own in line in the city centre, the real potential for trouble lies in the Markets and Short Strand where the IRSP and 32CSM will be organising the counter demonstrations
Have you not missed the point re the fact that the parade doesn't actually pass by either of these areas? That was probably about 45 pages ago, before this thread got sidetracked.
Furthermore, had a big deal not been made of this, most people would still have been in bed on a Sunday morning. And the attendance at the parade (i.e. support) would most likely have been insignificant.
(P.S. Just for the record again, i do think the parade is daft and i was/am against the war in Iraq - but i wouldn't be going out of my way on a Sunday morning just to be confrontational.)
In case you missed it:
"it will be impossible to ignore it due to the security operation which will be put in place before and after"
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 30, 2008, 12:06:11 PM
Yet again EG your facts are wrong. When the Taliban took power in Afghanistan, the export of Heroin dropped to record lows. The Taliban were totally against drug use as per their strict code of sharia law. Anyone caught with drugs would have their head cut off! When the Taliban were overthrown and the heros from the US and UK joined forces with the northern alliance (another bunch of nasty butchers) heroin trade got up to highest levels ever experienced by Afghanistan as local warlords found that no one was policiing their activities and so selling heroin again was the crop of choice. There is zero evidence that the Taliban or Al Quaida were selling drugs to fund war efforts. Of course, the invading armies would like to tells us otherwise.
EG is just swallowing NATO propaganda wholesale.
The Taliban were able to reduce the opium production in 2001 to a trickle with the help of the UN, ironically.
Now the propoganda is that the Taliban are responsible for the supplying of 90% of the worlds supply of Heroin.
The reality is that the Warlords and their armies control the production and the export.
In some areas the Taliban can collect a tax on the growers.
The Nato forces are in league with some of the Warlords in the South and tolerate their opium production in return for other favours which support Nato.
Not only that but if Nato did all of a sudden decide to wreak havoc on the growers and drug Warlords they would most certainly risk total alienation in Afghanistan.
It is estimated that about 500,000 people earn a decent enough salary by Afghan standards through the opium production.
It is a direct serious consequence of this invasion of Afghanistan that thousands of tons of Heroin flood into the impovershed urban areas around the world.
Though this is a diversion from the political ploy of the holding of and the location of celebrations for the returning British soldiers from this dirty war.
There is nothing to celebrate about this war nor should any animosity be directed at these soldiers.
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 29, 2008, 05:13:31 PM
EG, due to whats happened in the past I've decided to refrain from any interaction with you from this post on, which includes posting to you directly, commenting on your posts or replying to your posts directed to me.
Its for the best.
It was a simple, unperjorative question, entirely objectively phrased. Perhaps if someone else asks the same question, you will feel able to answer it?
"EG, due to whats happened in the past I've decided to refrain from any interaction with you from this post on, which includes posting to you directly, commenting on your posts or replying to your posts directed to me.
Its for the best"
Quote from: Donagh on October 30, 2008, 01:39:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 30, 2008, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 30, 2008, 10:36:04 AM
Hardy you're missing the point that I outlined 46 pages ago. As the proposed route of this parade passes by two nationalist enclaves it will be impossible to ignore it due to the security operation which will be put in place before and after. The proposed protest is an attempt to keep a lid on the inevitable unrest and channel the protest in a more peaceful direction. However the Shinners were too late on the ball this time as the pace had already be set by Éirígí. They may keep their own protest peaceful, but while the SF heavy hitters are concentrating on keeping their own in line in the city centre, the real potential for trouble lies in the Markets and Short Strand where the IRSP and 32CSM will be organising the counter demonstrations
Have you not missed the point re the fact that the parade doesn't actually pass by either of these areas? That was probably about 45 pages ago, before this thread got sidetracked.
Furthermore, had a big deal not been made of this, most people would still have been in bed on a Sunday morning. And the attendance at the parade (i.e. support) would most likely have been insignificant.
(P.S. Just for the record again, i do think the parade is daft and i was/am against the war in Iraq - but i wouldn't be going out of my way on a Sunday morning just to be confrontational.)
In case you missed it:
"it will be impossible to ignore it due to the security operation which will be put in place before and after"
No, i didn't miss the bit in bold - i was referring to the fact that the parade does not 'pass by two nationalist enclaves'.
And yes, of course there will be a visible security operation, but there will be no need for anyone to be trapped in their homes, so lets not sensationalise this element.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 30, 2008, 06:21:23 PM
No, i didn't miss the bit in bold - i was referring to the fact that the parade does not 'pass by two nationalist enclaves'.
And yes, of course there will be a visible security operation, but there will be no need for anyone to be trapped in their homes, so lets not sensationalise this element.
Whether there is a need to and whether the RUC will mount an OTT operation is two different things. You and I know fine well that when it comes to these two areas robocops will be out in force. I was once trapped in a shop on the Ormeau Rd when a landrover backed up to the door with the engine running, in order to prevent people going near a parade. There was no need for them to half choke me and the ten other people in the shop that morning but they did it all the same.
Whether there were to be protests or not, both the Short Stand and the Markets would be ringed with RUC from about 6 hours before and after this parade and that is not sensationalist. Given the history and experiences of both areas, that is unacceptable.
Quote from: Donagh on October 30, 2008, 07:46:14 PM
Whether there is a need to and whether the RUC will mount an OTT operation is two different things. You and I know fine well that when it comes to these two areas robocops will be out in force. I was once trapped in a shop on the Ormeau Rd when a landrover backed up to the door with the engine running, in order to prevent people going near a parade. There was no need for them to half choke me and the ten other people in the shop that morning but they did it all the same.
Whether there were to be protests or not, both the Short Stand and the Markets would be ringed with RUC from about 6 hours before and after this parade and that is not sensationalist. Given the history and experiences of both areas, that is unacceptable.
Did they settle out of court?
Quote from: BillyMc on October 31, 2008, 01:00:05 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 30, 2008, 07:46:14 PM
Whether there is a need to and whether the RUC will mount an OTT operation is two different things. You and I know fine well that when it comes to these two areas robocops will be out in force. I was once trapped in a shop on the Ormeau Rd when a landrover backed up to the door with the engine running, in order to prevent people going near a parade. There was no need for them to half choke me and the ten other people in the shop that morning but they did it all the same.
Whether there were to be protests or not, both the Short Stand and the Markets would be ringed with RUC from about 6 hours before and after this parade and that is not sensationalist. Given the history and experiences of both areas, that is unacceptable.
Did they settle out of court?
Settle what out of court?
The British Army have decided to leave their weapons and aeroplanes back in Britain while the Shinners have altered their protest to give them a bit of distance.
Meanwhile eirigi have changed the timing of their protest:
(http://www.eirigi.org/images/rir_cover.png)
I heard that all right but just wondered what it had to do with "court"?
Quote from: Donagh on October 31, 2008, 01:10:22 PM
The British Army have decided to leave their weapons and aeroplanes back in Britain while the Shinners have altered their protest to give them a bit of distance.
Meanwhile eirigi have changed the timing of their protest:
(http://www.eirigi.org/images/rir_cover.png)
Now the word is out and it looks like the hoods are going to take Belfast apart, they want to distance themselves from the impending trouble. "RIR Britain's murder machine" I have a question for you Donagh, how many innocent people did the RIR kill in Northern Ireland and how many did the IRA kill?
Answer it if you can.
Quote from: BillyMc on October 31, 2008, 01:17:57 PM
Now the word is out and it looks like the hoods are going to take Belfast apart, they want to distance themselves from the impending trouble. "RIR Britain's murder machine" I have a question for you Donagh, how many innocent people did the RIR kill in Northern Ireland and how many did the IRA kill?
Answer it if you can.
Tell you what Billy, if you are still around these parts to reach 1002 posts I'll answer that for you.
Any word as to whether the UUP councillor Neil Armstrong will be attending the parade to support the troops he hopes will kill me and other posters?
BillyMc, whats that got to do with the subject being discussed ? What do we have here, a newly registerd member, trying to be a WUM ?
Quote from: Donagh on October 31, 2008, 01:20:02 PM
Tell you what Billy, if you are still around these parts to reach 1002 posts I'll answer that for you.
Like i said, "if you can"
Quote from: BillyMc on October 31, 2008, 01:17:57 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 31, 2008, 01:10:22 PM
The British Army have decided to leave their weapons and aeroplanes back in Britain while the Shinners have altered their protest to give them a bit of distance.
Meanwhile eirigi have changed the timing of their protest:
(http://www.eirigi.org/images/rir_cover.png)
Now the word is out and it looks like the hoods are going to take Belfast apart, they want to distance themselves from the impending trouble. "RIR Britain's murder machine" I have a question for you Donagh, how many innocent people did the RIR kill in Northern Ireland and how many did the IRA kill?
Answer it if you can.
Why just in Northern Ireland? Doesnt matter about all the other people the RIR murder machine have killed all over the world....
Are you the bard?
Billymac, whats your view on the parade, do they deserve to be honoured?
Seeing how this is the topic under dicussion here.
Answer "if you can"
Quote from: TORGAEL on October 31, 2008, 01:21:24 PM
a newly registerd member, trying to be a WUM ?
Not a very good one going on his first three posts. Taking his cue from the Bard, BillyMc has left his email open to us all and guess what he adopted the name of a UDA gangster.
Ohh I'm so scared and intimidated. Don't know what I'll do... ::)
Saw the e-mail address alright, very Bardlike!!! :D
Quote from: Donagh on October 31, 2008, 01:20:02 PM
Quote from: BillyMc on October 31, 2008, 01:17:57 PM
Now the word is out and it looks like the hoods are going to take Belfast apart, they want to distance themselves from the impending trouble. "RIR Britain's murder machine" I have a question for you Donagh, how many innocent people did the RIR kill in Northern Ireland and how many did the IRA kill?
Answer it if you can.
Tell you what Billy, if you are still around these parts to reach 1002 posts I'll answer that for you.
Spotted this in the paper earlier this week...
(http://www.irishnews.com/webimages/20081025/knox.jpg)
Dount its him - the web site is in washington state
Spotted this one in the shop yesterday.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3064/2988544544_3034daa812_m.jpg)
The people taking up the UFF 'C Company' stance in front of the flag with "No Surrender" written on it are serving members of the RIR in Afghanistan.
Quote from: Donagh on October 31, 2008, 01:36:58 PM
Spotted this one in the shop yesterday.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3064/2988544544_3034daa812_m.jpg)
The people taking up the UFF 'C Company' stance in front of the flag with "No Surrender" written on it are serving members of the RIR in Afghanistan.
Brave honourable men indeed ::)
Quote from: Donagh on October 31, 2008, 01:28:08 PM
Not a very good one going on his first three posts. Taking his cue from the Bard, BillyMc has left his email open to us all and guess what he adopted the name of a UDA gangster.
Ohh I'm so scared and intimidated. Don't know what I'll do... ::)
Email open, UDA!?
ok what is this all about, I'm not in the UDA. Are you saying I'm in the UDA?
scared and intimidated?
Hi Donagh, I think you better watch what it is you are trying to say here.
Quote from: BillyMc on October 31, 2008, 04:58:20 PM
Quote from: Donagh on October 31, 2008, 01:28:08 PM
Not a very good one going on his first three posts. Taking his cue from the Bard, BillyMc has left his email open to us all and guess what he adopted the name of a UDA gangster.
Ohh I'm so scared and intimidated. Don't know what I'll do... ::)
Email open, UDA!?
ok what is this all about, I'm not in the UDA. Are you saying I'm in the UDA?
scared and intimidated?
Hi Donagh, I think you better watch what it is you are trying to say here.
Billy, I have a feeling you will have a very short lifespan on here and rightly so.
Eejit.
I think what he's saying is that if you check your profile you will realise that your email address is not hidden [fool] and that your name is the same as a well known UDA man ! Read before posting !
Boys, there'll be a couple of coded phone warnings on Sunday morning and the parade by the brave heroes of the rir will be cancelled... end of story
I assume the British Army paid for the advertisement they just had on BBC Newsline.
I must have missed that - was there an advertisement?
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2008, 06:30:49 PM
Boys, there'll be a couple of coded phone warnings on Sunday morning and the parade by the brave heroes of the rir will be cancelled... end of story
Calling people UDA members and now this.
Dear God!
What the f**k is this place? So red hander you know there will be some bomb warnings? coded no less?
Nobody called you a UDA member Billymc, merely noted that you named yourself after one.
Cut the mock victimisation you troublemaker :-*
Quote from: BillyMc on October 31, 2008, 07:13:45 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 31, 2008, 06:30:49 PM
Boys, there'll be a couple of coded phone warnings on Sunday morning and the parade by the brave heroes of the rir will be cancelled... end of story
Calling people UDA members and now this.
Dear God!
What the f**k is this place? So red hander you know there will be some bomb warnings? coded no less?
Look gobshite, having that awful gobshite as yer avatar doesn't wash ... i'll put my f****** house on it!
Men. I'm from Northern Ireland, I now live and work state side, with that said i'm back in the UK right now.
I'm not in the UDA, I did not name myself after anyone in the UDA and if you knew me you would know how wrong doing something like that would be!
Then we have red hander telling this chat room that "Boys, there'll be a couple of coded phone warnings on Sunday morning and the parade by the brave heroes of the rir will be cancelled"
???
This place is a bit scary men!
To tell you the truth, this is my last post, I only wanted to come and debate a few things, but I just feel totally intimidated and jumped on right now, people thinking I'm part of the UDA or named myself after the UDA, people that seem to know for sure that some bomb warnings will be called and coded no less.
It's not been a pleasant experience I tell you, goodbye.
No one gives a toss billy ! cheerio !
Slan Billy
Quote from: BillyMc on October 31, 2008, 09:45:26 PM
To tell you the truth, this is my last post, I only wanted to come and debate a few things, but I just feel totally intimidated and jumped on right now, people thinking I'm part of the UDA or named myself after the UDA, people that seem to know for sure that some bomb warnings will be called and coded no less.
It's not been a pleasant experience I tell you, goodbye.
Billy take yourself into a wee dark room and do one. WUM cnut.
This parade should not be happening, unionist started, unionist run and manipulated - those cnuts in the DUP and UUP have played this brilliantly, and some of you lads south of Monaghan have bought it hook line and sinker!
Why the fcuk shouldn't people protest against them!
The "british army" aren't even allowed to march in most of England, why the fcuk here - hmmmm??? Unionists
Quote from: BillyMc on October 31, 2008, 09:39:46 PM
Men. I'm from Northern Ireland, I now live and work state side, with that said i'm back in the UK right now.
I'm not in the UDA, I did not name myself after anyone in the UDA and if you knew me you would know how wrong doing something like that would be!
Then we have red hander telling this chat room that "Boys, there'll be a couple of coded phone warnings on Sunday morning and the parade by the brave heroes of the rir will be cancelled"
???
This place is a bit scary men!
Jee-sus Chriist!
BillyMc you are a WUM if I ever saw one.
Go do one elsewhere.
Thanks in advance 8)
Seeya Billy, enjoy the parade :-*
Fair play to Sinn Fein, because they have given this home coming parade so much publicity there are now thousands of Unionists/Protestants/Loyalists on the streets of Belfast to welcome these soldiers home. Instead of just ignoring it and giving it as little publicity as it deserves, Gerry & Co. have turned a parade that would have attracted a few hundred people into a Prod Fest.
Sinn Fein 1 - 0 Common Sense
I agree - apart from the score. I don't see how SF have won.
Are any of the Gaa Board vigilantes going to the march?
MW will probably head to it on the way back from the solicitor's office.
Quote from: Minder on November 02, 2008, 01:07:52 PM
Are any of the Gaa Board vigilantes going to the march?
Yep, just back. Great to see the young lads looking proud as they marched through their city, "reminding Sinn Fein what an undefeated army really looks like".
:)
Not hard to be undefeated when you're murdering women and children.
Is it over already?
Quote from: Tonto on November 02, 2008, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 02, 2008, 01:07:52 PM
Are any of the Gaa Board vigilantes going to the march?
Yep, just back. Great to see the young lads looking proud as they marched through their city, "reminding Sinn Fein what an undefeated army really looks like".
:)
It's good that you went for the right reasons.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 01:15:37 PM
Quote from: Tonto on November 02, 2008, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 02, 2008, 01:07:52 PM
Are any of the Gaa Board vigilantes going to the march?
Yep, just back. Great to see the young lads looking proud as they marched through their city, "reminding Sinn Fein what an undefeated army really looks like".
:)
It's good that you went for the right reasons.
I certainly did and I was planning on going long before Gerry and the Troublemakers organised their protest.
I only added in the quote because it was in the Irish Independent(??) last week.
When's the Eirigi march?
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 01:15:37 PM
Quote from: Tonto on November 02, 2008, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 02, 2008, 01:07:52 PM
Are any of the Gaa Board vigilantes going to the march?
Yep, just back. Great to see the young lads looking proud as they marched through their city, "reminding Sinn Fein what an undefeated army really looks like".
:)
It's good that you went for the right reasons.
Exactly, he's probably gone to annoy the taigs though I suppose it's better than going to honour and support child and women murderers (there'll be a march for Gary Gliter next ::)) bet he's got his poppy on too.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7704929.stm
see a banner with eoghan quigg's name on it around 1.15 in the video ???
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 01:25:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 01:15:37 PM
Quote from: Tonto on November 02, 2008, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 02, 2008, 01:07:52 PM
Are any of the Gaa Board vigilantes going to the march?
Yep, just back. Great to see the young lads looking proud as they marched through their city, "reminding Sinn Fein what an undefeated army really looks like".
:)
It's good that you went for the right reasons.
Exactly, he's probably gone to annoy the taigs though I suppose it's better than going to honour and support child and women murderers (there'll be a march for Gary Gliter next ::)) bet he's got his poppy on too.
Sorry to disappoint, POG, but like most people I went down to beside City Hall and once the parade was over I left, didn't see any protesters at all which was good because it would have taken away from the sense of occasion I think.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to contribute to the veterans fund and get a poppy because I didn't see anyone collecting.
QuoteSorry to disappoint, POG, but like most people I went down to beside City Hall and once the parade was over I left, didn't see any protesters at all which was good because it would have taken away from the sense of occasion I think.
How many child murderers did you see?
Quote from: hardstation on November 02, 2008, 01:10:26 PM
I believe there was a bit of squib throwing etc at Divis flats.
You are mistaken.
I'm glad to hear it all went off peacefully. I was there was going to be trouble makers at it from both sides.
Quote from: ziggysego on November 02, 2008, 01:49:05 PM
I'm glad to hear it all went off peacefully. I was there was going to be trouble makers at it from both sides.
Indeed ziggy, there were a lot of big mouths in a bar I was in last night saying how they were going to do this and that etc. Fortunately, they were probably still in bed nursing their hangovers this morning.
A bit of selective reading there hs. Take it into context and then you can see a different story altogether.
At one point Sinn Féin protesters and supporters of the parade were less than 100m apart.
There were brief skirmishes and a number of bottles were thrown, however, police moved in to restore calm.
Police stopped a separate dissident republican counter parade from marching into the centre of Belfast at the bottom of the Falls Road. They dispersed after a number of speeches were made.
Oh and I live within eyeshot of Divis so I knew there had been no trouble there from the bunch of misfits calling themselves Eirigi.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before but here we go anyway.
When the 'Minister for Sport' for the North of Ireland was asked if he would be attending the All-Ireland football final back in September, he said that he wouldn't be attending with one of his reasons being that it was on a Sunday, how funny it is then that when the MOD organise a military show of strength on a Sunday that the bould Gregory is one of the first hoors out cheering them on ??? ??? ???
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 02, 2008, 01:55:22 PM
Oh and I live within eyeshot of Divis so I knew there had been no trouble there from the bunch of misfits calling themselves Eirigi.
I was very impressed with the éirígí protest. Very far from the rabble and spides some people would have you believe. It was a disciplined and dignified protest with representation from all parts of Ireland - good to see so many making the early journey up from Dublin and Cork. Not one Celtic shirt on display and even Hardstation would be impressed by the amount of Gaelic being spoken among the crowd. In music terms you could say it was more Damian Dempsey than the Wolfe Tones.
Fivetimes now supports British troops marching on Irish streets. Whatever next...
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 02, 2008, 02:40:25 PM
What or who is Eirigi?
http://www.eirigi.org/ (http://www.eirigi.org/)
The British Army werent marching in Dundalk today, they were marching in Belfast. The last time I checked Belfast was still part of the UK. A dose of realism would do you fantasists in Sinn Fein no harm at all. Still it will be great when you get your salary from the British Exchequer, Sterling is on the up at the minute. Meanwhile here in Ireland we`ll just keep plodding away with the Euro. ;)
Donagh can we not agree that if Sinn Fein had ignored this silly parade it would have had a much smaller attendance and been given much less publicity.
Quote from: Donagh on November 02, 2008, 02:43:07 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 02, 2008, 02:40:25 PM
What or who is Eirigi?
http://www.eirigi.org/ (http://www.eirigi.org/)
From Eirigi:
"There is not an activist in Belfast city who will not be in attendance at one of the many republican and socialist demonstrations now taking place"
Was this them?
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45166000/jpg/_45166264_-13.jpg)
Or was this them?
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45166000/jpg/_45166266_-27.jpg)
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 02, 2008, 02:45:15 PM
Donagh can we not agree that if Sinn Fein had ignored this silly parade it would have had a much smaller attendance and been given much less publicity.
Probably, but unfortunately those on the receiving end of their overseas exploits don't have the luxury of being able to ignore them when they drop another bomb on a wedding. Not in my name do these toe-rag mercenaries murder and pilage their way around the world.
Quote from: mournerambler on November 02, 2008, 02:02:06 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before but here we go anyway.
When the 'Minister for Sport' for the North of Ireland was asked if he would be attending the All-Ireland football final back in September, he said that he wouldn't be attending with one of his reasons being that it was on a Sunday, how funny it is then that when the MOD organise a military show of strength on a Sunday that the bould Gregory is one of the first hoors out cheering them on ??? ??? ???
I'm sure his answer would be that if he was in Croke Park on a Sunday it would have been in his capacity as (then) Minister for Culture Arts and Leisure and he would therefore be 'working' on a Sunday, whereas he wasn't on the streets today to work.
On his logic, that works.
Quote from: Donagh on November 02, 2008, 02:56:16 PM
Probably, but unfortunately those on the receiving end of their overseas exploits don't have the luxury of being able to ignore them when they drop another bomb on a wedding. Not in my name do these toe-rag mercenaries murder and pilage their way around the world.
So this Sinn Fein protest was really about the illegal war in Iraq/Afghanistan? Or was it because themmuns were marching in Belfast?
I couldnt give two flying f**ks who marches were, as long as it doesnt effect me. It seems that some people have to travel a long way to be offended. What really bugs me is that the protestors pick up their salaries from the British Government, that same Government who pay those soldiers who are marching through Belfast today. Is there really much of a difference between both sides of todays argument? They are in the pay of the same people after all.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 02, 2008, 03:04:38 PM
So this Sinn Fein protest was really about the illegal war in Iraq/Afghanistan? Or was it because themmuns were marching in Belfast?
Couldn't tell you. I wasn't at the SF protest.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 02, 2008, 03:04:38 PM
So this Sinn Fein protest was really about the illegal war in Iraq/Afghanistan?
Clearly from the banners and placards it was about British Army activity in NI.
did anyone spot the Bard showing his support?
Quote from: fred the red on November 02, 2008, 03:13:58 PM
did anyone spot the Bard showing his support?
(http://www.jeanquan.org/PhotoGallery/AstronautFloat.JPG)
5ivetimes your anti Sinn Fein stance to the point of becoming pro British really is hilarious.
Quote from: Donagh on November 02, 2008, 02:24:14 PM
I was very impressed with the éirígí protest.
Ahhh, I'm pleased for you. Does it make up for not being allowed to join the Big Boys in the SF protest? ;)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 03:55:25 PM
5ivetimes your anti Sinn Fein stance to the point of becoming pro British really is hilarious.
There is nothing pro-British about me. Unlike your good self, I pay my taxes to the Irish Government, my VAT bill comes from them, my car has an Irish registration, in fact I couldnt really be any more Irish, though I would prefer to pay a bit less tax, but still my 40% goes to running this little country, yours and Donaghs goes to the British Exchequer.
What I find hilarious is the about turn that Sinn Fein have managed to pull off, with the support of their electorate. Not only have Gerry and Martin overseen the surrender and disarming of the IRA, but they are now being paid to run Northern Ireland from a nice comfy office in Stormont. You really couldn`t make this shit up. Still, its you and your ilk who voted them in and its your taxes that pay their wages.
QuoteThere is nothing pro-British about me. Unlike your good self, I pay my taxes to the Irish Government, my VAT bill comes from them, my car has an Irish registration, in fact I couldnt really be any more Irish, though I would prefer to pay a bit less tax, but still my 40% goes to running this little country, yours and Donaghs goes to the British Exchequer.
We can't all run away move to the south ::) You criticise Sinn Fein and the IRA yet what would be your alternative? More war? With you tucked up in your bed across the border?
QuoteStill, its you and your ilk who voted them in and its your taxes that pay their wages.
I didn't vote for them.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 04:45:28 PM
We can't all run away move to the south ::)
Maybe we should all run to England and work for Tesco :D
So what's your alternative to what the shinners are doing?
No answer?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 05:07:13 PM
So what's your alternative to what the shinners are doing?
No answer?
Can't speak for 5ive Times, but my alternative for the Shinners is to accept that they lost "the war", that NI is a part of the UK and will remain so as long as a majority of people in NI so wish it, and in that spirit of reality start conducting some normal politics - jobs, health, education etc - instead of forever trying to keep the pot stirred, with their politics of provocation (e.g. Brit-hating counter-demonstrations like this morning) or their pointless gesture politics (e.g. painting pillar boxes green).
What baffles me is that 5times supports the British co Down in the AI.
EG
QuoteCan't speak for 5ive Times, but my alternative for the Shinners is to accept that they lost "the war", that NI is a part of the UK and will remain so as long as a majority of people in NI so wish it, and in that spirit of reality start conducting some normal politics - jobs, health, education etc - instead of forever trying to keep the pot stirred, with their politics of provocation (e.g. Brit-hating counter-demonstrations like this morning) or their pointless gesture politics (e.g. painting pillar boxes green).
Aye well you're a unionist I'd expect you to want that.
What I find funny though is that you have the nerve to talk about the Shinners "politics of provocation", this from someone from a bigotted section of the communtiy that want to parade through areas they're not wanted and look forward to November to wear a "I am British" badge ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 05:51:17 PM
EG
QuoteCan't speak for 5ive Times, but my alternative for the Shinners is to accept that they lost "the war", that NI is a part of the UK and will remain so as long as a majority of people in NI so wish it, and in that spirit of reality start conducting some normal politics - jobs, health, education etc - instead of forever trying to keep the pot stirred, with their politics of provocation (e.g. Brit-hating counter-demonstrations like this morning) or their pointless gesture politics (e.g. painting pillar boxes green).
Aye well you're a unionist I'd expect you to want that.
It appear to be not just Unionists who require "normal politics" from SF. The objections to their Counter-demonstration which were raised even in their Republican heartlands (e.g Anderstown News), plus the paltry numbers which they were actually able to bring out onto the streets, surely demonstrates this.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 05:51:17 PM
What I find funny though is that you have the nerve to talk about the Shinners "politics of provocation", this from someone from a bigotted section of the communtiy that want to parade through areas they're not wanted
This morning's (one-off) parade did not pass through "areas where they are not wanted" and need have offended no-one who was not absolutely determined to be offended.
If, however, you are referring to certain annual Orange Parades, then you are once more engaging in blatant "whataboutery", to distract from criticism of this morning's unnecessary counter-demo, with its clear potential for sparking violence (happily not realised).
For the record, I am not an Orangeman, nor would never become one. And whilst as a Libertarian I feel that in principle, anyone should be able to parade lawfully* where he/she likes, in practice I deplore the lack of restraint and sensitivity displayed by the OO over a percentage of their Parades.
* - Or demonstrate peacefully against
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 05:51:17 PM
and look forward to November to wear a "I am British" badge ::)
And as I have said before, different people wear Poppies for different reasons. If you are determined on draw only one narrow-minded conclusion from everybody doing so, then that says a great deal more about you than it does about those who wear them.
Do you think the people of Belfast (everyone that is) wanted this daft parade to go through the City centre? Why couldnt they march up and down the Shankhill, where they would be welcomed?
welcome by the unionist population
So called Republicans on this board and in general in the North of Ireland need to take their heads out of the sand or in the case of pints, take your head from up your own arse and have a look around you. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, in fact the union with Britain is probably stronger than ever. Ireland now has no constitutional claim over the six counties. Idiots fantasists like Donagh can bullsh*t all they want about smashing the system from within, but we cannot get away from the fact that Sinn Fein are now happily administering British rule in the North of Ireland and they are a laughing stock in the South. The IRA have gone away, they have surrendered their arms and been disbanded. Thanks to Adams & Co. Republicanism is nothing more than a romantic ideal. We wont see a United Ireland in my lifetime or indeed the lifetime of anyone on this board.
I hate Britain with a passion, I hate everything about it and what it stands for. I`ve just watched a cheating black british racing driver cheat his way to the FIA world title. I managed to say that without using the N word. I hate the fact the the RIR are parading round Belfast today after their time in Iraq/Afghanistan, but I have to accept that Belfast is still under British rule and will continue to be so indefinitely. Sinn Fein are not only kidding themselves, but each and every idiot that votes for them, by saying anything different. Sinn Fein seems to have divided loyalties these days, they are torn between the Crown and the half crown. Either way they are still taking the queens shilling.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 06:58:46 PM
Do you think the people of Belfast (everyone that is) wanted this daft parade to go through the City centre? Why couldnt they march up and down the Shankhill, where they would be welcomed?
30,000 prods "welcomed" their troops home today, while a Sinn Fein backed rabble of 200 turned up to protest. There were probably more people in Casement today to watch St Galls than at the protest and that says enough about how interested the Nationalist people of Belfast are in such a protest. Would 30,000 people have turned up if Sinn Fein hadnt kicked up such a fuss?
Pints if you are so concerned about the parade why didnt you fly home and take Donagh to it. They could do with another 2 idiots, at least you would make the crowd bigger.
Quote from: hardstation on November 02, 2008, 07:23:28 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 02, 2008, 01:55:22 PM
A bit of selective reading there hs. Take it into context and then you can see a different story altogether.
At one point Sinn Féin protesters and supporters of the parade were less than 100m apart.
There were brief skirmishes and a number of bottles were thrown, however, police moved in to restore calm.
Police stopped a separate dissident republican counter parade from marching into the centre of Belfast at the bottom of the Falls Road. They dispersed after a number of speeches were made.
Oh and I live within eyeshot of Divis so I knew there had been no trouble there from the bunch of misfits calling themselves Eirigi.
What the f**k? From what you have posted, only one line relates to what I posted.
You are a bit dim.
Anyone who really gives a shit will read the article themselves and conclude from it that you are totally thick.
5ivetimes, I'd be one of those that would say the Shinners should have ignored the protest.
However, back to my question and your anti Sinn Fein stance, what's the alternative to what they're doing?
DO you support these dissident republicans blowing hot air (and you'd know all about that)? Are they going to get a united Ireland?
btw, nice that you avoided using "Nigger" in your last post, makes a change from talking about "chinkys" ::)
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 02, 2008, 07:19:41 PM
So called Republicans on this board and in general in the North of Ireland need to take their heads out of the sand or in the case of pints, take your head from up your own arse and have a look around you. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, in fact the union with Britain is probably stronger than ever. Ireland now has no constitutional claim over the six counties. Idiots fantasists like Donagh can bullsh*t all they want about smashing the system from within, but we cannot get away from the fact that Sinn Fein are now happily administering British rule in the North of Ireland and they are a laughing stock in the South. The IRA have gone away, they have surrendered their arms and been disbanded. Thanks to Adams & Co. Republicanism is nothing more than a romantic ideal. We wont see a United Ireland in my lifetime or indeed the lifetime of anyone on this board.
I hate Britain with a passion, I hate everything about it and what it stands for. I`ve just watched a cheating black british racing driver cheat his way to the FIA world title. I managed to say that without using the N word. I hate the fact the the RIR are parading round Belfast today after their time in Iraq/Afghanistan, but I have to accept that Belfast is still under British rule and will continue to be so indefinitely. Sinn Fein are not only kidding themselves, but each and every idiot that votes for them, by saying anything different. Sinn Fein seems to have divided loyalties these days, they are torn between the Crown and the half crown. Either way they are still taking the queens shilling.
What is your point? are u a dissie? What do you suggest mainstream republicanism should do then?
QuoteWhat do you suggest mainstream republicanism should do then?
I've asked him that three times and so far all I can gather is that we should all move to Dundalk.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/2995618968_ffe87975a2.jpg?v=0)
Eirig on the march.
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 02, 2008, 07:12:39 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 02, 2008, 06:58:46 PM
Do you think the people of Belfast (everyone that is) wanted this daft parade to go through the City centre? Why couldnt they march up and down the Shankhill, where they would be welcomed?
Seems quite a welcome to me.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7704929.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7704929.stm)
Looks more like a National Front demo :)
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45166000/jpg/_45166726_b31d6e35-7543-4a98-92f5-c832906518af.jpg)
Quote from: Guillem2 on November 02, 2008, 08:17:39 PM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/2995618968_ffe87975a2.jpg?v=0)
Eirig on the march.
...look at them there.What a great bunch o lads
Class HS anyone who can link carey faughs to shankill loyalists has earned a pint when I run into them!
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 02, 2008, 07:27:52 PM
30,000 prods "welcomed" their troops home today, while a Sinn Fein backed rabble of 200 turned up to protest. There were probably more people in Casement today to watch St Galls than at the protest and that says enough about how interested the Nationalist people of Belfast are in such a protest. Would 30,000 people have turned up if Sinn Fein hadnt kicked up such a fuss?
Pints if you are so concerned about the parade why didnt you fly home and take Donagh to it. They could do with another 2 idiots, at least you would make the crowd bigger.
You're a very bitter man 5iveTimes. Sad that, but before you lose the run of yourself, let me point out a few things. Firstly the SF protest had closer to 2000 people and not the 200 you say. That's 2000 people who came onto the street to make a dignified protest against these murderers being allowed to walk through an Irish city. Now you might like to condemn them as a "rabble" from the comfort of your bolt hole across the border but from what I could see before and after they set off, the vast majority were good respectable and conscientious people, something which was clearly evident from the way they conducted themselves.
I didn't attend the SF protest because I was already committed to going along with a few friends from éirígí and I wanted to get a look around the town when the RIR were marching through, something I wouldn't have been able to do from behind the SF lines. Now besides the fact that this figure of 30,000 is an absolutely ridiculous inflation of the numbers and the éirígí numbers have been underestimated, what I saw in town was extremely depressing. On the numbers, both sides (footpaths) of Wellington Place and Chichester St were jammed packed. Big crowd yes, but nowhere near the numbers that participated in the Hunger Strike rally there two years ago and that was estimated at between 15-20k.
What was depressing was the type and behaviour of people that turned out to "welcome the boys home". Rather than being there to welcome anyone home, a large proportion of that crowd where there simply to wind-up the nationalists protesters. The foul sectarian language was probably the worst I have ever experienced. I can see now why they reckon a large percentage of the unionist middle class don't vote - if this bunch of venomous spidy scumbags is the best the unionist parties can drag onto the streets to support them, no respectable person would want to be associated with them. The cheers and support of the bystanders not just of the RIR when they came past but from the UDA gangsters who openly paraded themselves up and down the road with their faces covered was sad and bewildering.
All credit of the day must go to the SF and to a lesser extent the éirígí protesters who conducted themselves in a dignified way in the face of enormous provocation. The unionists wanted republicans to present themselves a the mirror image of the lowlife loyalists by wrecking the city. That they didn't despite the best efforts of the DUP and UDA is credit to those on the protest and big Bobby Storey who seemed to be organising the marshals. Looks like Peter the Punt will have to scrapping around for another reason to deny the devolution of P&J now that ploy didn't work.
The SF demonstrators could easily have stopped that parade today of they had resorted to violence but they didn't. The fact that it took thousands of PSNI and loyalists gangsters to enable a walk for the RIR through your so called British city was enough to see the point made and to make sure it's not attempted again.
The War of Terror against Afghanis has cost the US about $173 Billion so far.
Those B Specials did not come cheap.
The War of Terror against Iraq has cost $657 Billion
Report for US Congress in a pdf file
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf)
It's no wonder Western Capitalism has gone broke.
Ironic that it was fighting in Afghanistan which was the straw that emptied the Soviet coffers too. ::)
Quote from: Donagh on November 02, 2008, 08:46:47 PM
What was depressing was the type and behaviour of people that turned out to "welcome the boys home". Rather than being there to welcome anyone home, a large proportion of that crowd where there simply to wind-up the nationalists protesters. The foul sectarian language was probably the worst I have ever experienced. I can see now why they reckon a large percentage of the unionist middle class don't vote - if this bunch of venomous spidy scumbags is the best the unionist parties can drag onto the streets to support them, no respectable person would want to be associated with them. The cheers and support of the bystanders not just of the RIR when they came past but from the UDA gangsters who openly paraded themselves up and down the road with their faces covered was sad and bewildering.
Eh, these people would never have been on the streets in the first place had the protests not been called. It was the protests that raised the profile of today's march and in turn attracted this loyalist support. Otherwise today's crowd would most likely have been a scattering of old people and soldiers' families.
It wasn't the march that brough these people out - it was the protests.
And what about the people in Short Strand and The Markets? Were the residents under house arrest for the weekend? Or was that really your sensationalism I referred to before the march?
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2008, 09:42:05 PM
Eh, these people would never have been on the streets in the first place had the protests not been called. It was the protests that raised the profile of today's march and in turn attracted this loyalist support. Otherwise today's crowd would most likely have been a scattering of old people and soldiers' families.
It wasn't the march that brough these people out - it was the protests.
And what about the people in Short Strand and The Markets? Were the residents under house arrest for the weekend? Or was that really your sensationalism I referred to before the march?
A march by the RIR had to be opposed on principle. The only thing to be decided then was the nature of that protest. That was sucessfully achieved.
Yes, from what I hear the Short Strand and Markets were under siege for quite a long time.
Quote from: Donagh on November 02, 2008, 09:53:37 PM
A march by the RIR had to be opposed on principle. The only thing to be decided then was the nature of that protest. That was sucessfully achieved.
The point still stands that it was these protests that brought loyalists onto the streets. I respect the standpoint that some will want to protest on principle, but don't think you necessarily have to be out on the streets to register a protest.
Quote from: Donagh on November 02, 2008, 09:53:37 PM
Yes, from what I hear the Short Strand and Markets were under siege for quite a long time.
Define 'under siege'? From my understanding, i would have expected this to be headline news.
Sounds like Windsor Park on a 'good' night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb00agFsZko (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb00agFsZko)
The news said one person was arrested. Which side?
Quote from: Donagh on November 02, 2008, 10:32:30 PM
Sounds like Windsor Park on a 'good' night:
You've been?
I don't know when the last time Windsor would have had 30,000 people in it, though. :D
Must have been an away game Tonto ;)
The release of the black ballons was a good stunt and a fitting tribute.
Looked to be a very dignified, good natured and well behaved demonstration.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 02, 2008, 07:19:41 PM
So called Republicans on this board and in general in the North of Ireland need to take their heads out of the sand or in the case of pints, take your head from up your own arse and have a look around you. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, in fact the union with Britain is probably stronger than ever. Ireland now has no constitutional claim over the six counties. Idiots fantasists like Donagh can bullsh*t all they want about smashing the system from within, but we cannot get away from the fact that Sinn Fein are now happily administering British rule in the North of Ireland and they are a laughing stock in the South. The IRA have gone away, they have surrendered their arms and been disbanded. Thanks to Adams & Co. Republicanism is nothing more than a romantic ideal. We wont see a United Ireland in my lifetime or indeed the lifetime of anyone on this board.
I hate Britain with a passion, I hate everything about it and what it stands for. I`ve just watched a cheating black british racing driver cheat his way to the FIA world title. I managed to say that without using the N word. I hate the fact the the RIR are parading round Belfast today after their time in Iraq/Afghanistan, but I have to accept that Belfast is still under British rule and will continue to be so indefinitely. Sinn Fein are not only kidding themselves, but each and every idiot that votes for them, by saying anything different. Sinn Fein seems to have divided loyalties these days, they are torn between the Crown and the half crown. Either way they are still taking the queens shilling.
So, 5ive Times, how did Lewis Hamilton cheat his way to a world title this year?
And what difference does it make if he is black or white?
Your racism on this topic is a disgrace, so grow up.
People who want to remain part of British rule in Ireland are now down to a majority in two Counties. We just have to be patient. Since the IRA British ceasefire I have seen a massive change in some Unionists. Example being some people in our village who are of British dissent will no longer fly Union Jacks in July. Only out of respect for their Irish neighbors. Small steps but over all we are going in the right direction. Ireland is far too small to be divided. These triumphalist parades are a step back but we must remain focused in building the new Ireland with equality and tolerance for its people. A Unionist politician told my brother recently "we know an All-Ireland is inevitable we are just trying to slow the process down". It was never going to happen with the flick of a switch.
5ive times you really are a clueless sc**bag!
Careful you dont upset 5ivetimes, he's been know to...shall we say, overreact.
I can't believe some of the stuff I've been reading on this thread. All I can say is that those of you who felt that a protest shouldn't have happened today have never lost a loved one or family member through the hands of the British army, who lets not forget had the seal of approval and the weaponry handed down from a state government to murder and maim the people who share the same constitution as their own.
I too felt at the beginning that maybe the best policy would be to ignore the parade as undoubtedly it was proposed as a means of provocation. But as I thought more on it, I realised that I ws being sucked in to exactly what the DUP are hoping Nationalists will feel. All you had to do was listen to the DUP conference. These bunch of idiots still use words such as "control" and "power" when they speak of the politics their involved in. 30 years taught them nothing and sometimes I wonder what we as Irish people collectively learned from it. If the ku Klux Klan wanted to walk throught he streets of Alabama or if the Nazi's demanded the right to march through Warsaw, there would be global outcry, but for our victims, ah sure just put up and shut up. If the last 30 years has taught me anything as an Irish person, it has been to be respectful of others and proud to be what I am. I wouldn't feel it to be right for the IRA to receive a state military procession through Belfast, but I do, as an equal citizen, expect the respect shown to my community and it wasn't.
I was proud of Sinn Fein today and proud of the victims who held themselves with such dignity - I am proud to be Irish and I no longer have to be "controlled" by fascist unionists, however if our own people don't reaalise this, hen we're just giving them ammunition for another 30 years of "control" its our choice!!!
Donagh it appears that all the bitterness on this thread is coming from you, after all you started another sectarian thread not me. I dont give a toss who marches where, as long as they dont annoy me or my family. Unlike yourself, I`m not a tea boy or a paper seller, I actually spent a few years behind bars, another member of my family served 14 years and a member of my mothers family was killed on active service. What we all have to realise is that the day the first pound was diverted from the military campaign to Sinn Fein we lost. If you read Eamon Collins` book, he said something similar. He also sums up your old mate Gerry very very well. Adams has led Republicanism into a cul-de-sac and because the IRA have been dismantled and disarmed they have no way out. So what we have is a stalemate, in reality Unionism has won and no matter how you dress it up our side has lost. The IRA completed the final act of surrender when it decomissioned the last of its arms, it seems that decomissioning is a nice way of saying surrender.
For anyone wanting to know what we should do, I dont have the answers. Maybe we should try to get on with our neighbours as best we can. let them parade all they want, to me they look pathetic, but unless they parade past Faughart Shrine they wont annoy me. The border is here to stay, no matter what way Sinn Fein dress it up. An old friend of mine* used to say, "he who pays the piper calls the tune". Its very true. Sinn Fein are being paid very well to run Northern Ireland by the British Government. They have thrown the dolly out of the pram over policing and justice, but they will be back round the table with the DUP once Gordon Brown has time to deal with them. Out in the real world, real politicians are dealing with an economic crisis. Jobs are being lost, the cost of living is effecting more and more, but that doesnt concern too many in Stormont. As long as themmuns aren`t getting anything thats all that matters up there.
Build a bridge and move on Donagh, the rest of us have. Maybe its hard for those at the bottom to see what those at the top have done to you.
* edited to add that that old friend of mine is no longer with us, he was murdered by the IRA as he was seen as a threat to the peace process. He was a great lad when he was doing their dirty work, but after the ceasefires of 94 and 96 he was persona non grata.
Well as far as i can see if this was a coat-trailing exercise then sinn fein stepped on it.
Perhaps the army should drop their adverts on TV and pay sinn fein to picket recruitment offices, on yesterdays evidence it would have people flocking to sign up.
5ive times, I cant work out whether:
a) you've surrendered to the british
b) you've still aspirations of a Unitied Ireland by force
c) you've aspirations of a Unitied Ireland by stealth
or something else. Which is it?
The only thing you know about me 5iveTimes is that I chose to not to run away. The rest of your rant is just embarrassing. If you had any sense you'd stop with the MOPE, we've enough of that going on with the OWCers.
We will never achieve the Nation we say we want and that is because most of us really don't want it. If history and the present have proved anything it has proved that the majority of the Irish people are selfish and scared. We are a proud nation and that pride has overcome everything else. The DUP epitomise the Irish people. If we never admit to being wrong we will never be wrong.
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2008, 10:10:17 AM
5ive times, I cant work out whether:
a) you've surrendered to the british
b) you've still aspirations of a Unitied Ireland by force
c) you've aspirations of a Unitied Ireland by stealth
or something else. Which is it?
Orior, I was going to ask why you would want to know more of the opinion of someone who is capable of something like this:
Quote from: 5iveTimes on 2008-11-02, 19:19:41:
QuoteI`ve just watched a cheating black british racing driver cheat his way to the FIA world title. I managed to say that without using the N word.
Then I thought maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to shed a little more light on the Ireland of equals this character and his ilk would have in mind for us.
Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2008, 10:10:17 AM
5ive times, I cant work out whether:
a) you've surrendered to the british
b) you've still aspirations of a Unitied Ireland by force
c) you've aspirations of a Unitied Ireland by stealth
or something else. Which is it?
How curious the use of the word "stealth". For having failed to achieve a United Ireland by force, do you really believe that you can in some way "trick" one million unwilling Unionists into a United Ireland without their noticing? Is that the purpose behind Barry McElduff's campaign to paint pillar boxes green? That they'll all suddenly forget themselves some morning when they go to post a letter?
I don't know whether 5ive Times would concur, but surely the reasonable answer to your question must be "something else". And for me, that "something else" is quite simple. Namely, that the people on the ground in NI need to remember what has already been agreed by London, Dublin, Washington and the UN (i.e. everyone that truly counts), indeed what they themselves overwhelmingly
voted for. That is, NI is British and will remain so as long as a majority of the people of NI so desire.
Which, if we are truly honest, was only what yesterday's Parade was all about. For this was not some "Army of Occupation" sent over by Westminster to kick down doors in Ballymurphy and drag the occupants off to a compound in Long Kesh. Rather, it was a Regiment of Irish soldiers, Protestant and Catholic, from North
and South, marching through their home city, after a tour of duty in Afghanistan, where they had been flying the Queen's Colours and operating under the mandate of the United Nations. Which in 2008 is the reality of "the British presence in Ireland"
And it seems to me that if that is ever going to change, then the Nationalist population of Ireland need first to recognise and accept that reality. Moreover, they need to learn the same lesson that Unionists needed to learn earlier. Namely, just as they (Unionists) could never coerce or trick an unwilling population of Nationalists in NI into freely accepting a United Kingdom, then Nationalists will never coerce or trick an unwilling population of Unionists in NI into a (genuinely) United Ireland.
Which leaves those who still retain an aspiration towards a United Ireland with only two possible courses of action. The first is to wait for demographics to overturn the pro-Union majority in NI. And the second is to try to persuade that majority to change their opinion and join with them.
As regards the former, I have no idea when or even whether it will come about. And if I were a Nationalist, I might not be willing just to wait, either. Which leaves persuasion. Now in truth, that course is probably no easier than either coercion or stealth, and a sight less fun than demographics (outbreeding!). But it is at least the principled approach and therefore the only one (imo) which ought to be followed.
Which only leaves one final question. When confronted yesterday with the symbolic, tangible and undeniable truth of the
real nature of the British presence in Ireland, what did SF and Eirige etc think they were going to achieve with their counter demonstration? For such a display did nothing to persuade Unionists; in fact it was quite the opposite - it served only to harden attitudes amongst the Unionist population of NI. And considering that it also seemingly did little to persuade NI
Nationalists (if the paltry numbers who bothered to get out of bed and be offended on Donegall Place are anything to go by), then yesterday was in fact a triumph for Ulster Unionism and a spectacular "own goal" for the cause of Irish Nationalism.
Clear the Way!
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 11:12:12 AM
Which, if we are truly honest, was only what yesterday's Parade was all about. For this was not some "Army of Occupation" sent over by Westminster to kick down doors in Ballymurphy and drag the occupants off to a compound in Long Kesh. Rather, it was a Regiment of Irish soldiers, Protestant and Catholic, from North and South, marching through their home city, after a tour of duty in Afghanistan, where they had been flying the Queen's Colours and operating under the mandate of the United Nations. Which in 2008 is the reality of "the British presence in Ireland"
And it seems to me that if that is ever going to change, then the Nationalist population of Ireland need first to recognise and accept that reality.
Hmmm an awful lot of "somes" ignored there EG.
Some people may have opposed the march because:
a) Where the soldiers are returning from. People from all walks of life, countries etc.. have conscientious objections to the "War on Terror"
b) The origins of the RIR (Were they not formed from the UDR, a regiment who had almost 300 members convicted of terrorist offenses?)
c) They are unhappy with past British Army actions in Northern Ireland (Bloody Sunday etc..)
d) They were on the direct receiving end of British Army actions in Northern Ireland. (Families of victims such as Aidan McAnespie's)
By defining yesterday's protests in purely tribal terms you are just as bad as thosed you are criticising.
/Jim.
QuoteI`ve just watched a cheating black british racing driver cheat his way to the FIA world title. I managed to say that without using the N word.
Well done, it must have been difficult to hold in ::)
Perhaps youd have been happier with a member of the aryan race winning, but unfortunately it was Hamilton or Massa so youd have been disappointed either way.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 02, 2008, 07:19:41 PM
I hate Britain with a passion, I hate everything about it and what it stands for. I`ve just watched a cheating black british racing driver cheat his way to the FIA world title. I managed to say that without using the N word.
Did you drink a gallon of whiskey while watching it?
Jaysus 5ivetimes, that is some sh1te to be spouting
5times is exhibiting what most of the disident republicans I have come across do. Real bitterness and anger. The fact you bring Lewis Hamilton and the colour of his skin into the debate really shows your true colours to me. Conflict cannot continue indefinetely and the winning by conflict alone was never going to happen when you are in stalemate 30 years later. A political solution, a truce or a treaty of some sort ends most of these conflicts. In such a agreement both sides need to compromise and that is what happened. You are a tiny minority within the republican family and maybe you should remember that.
As for EG going on about republicans having to convince 1 million unionists on the benefits of a United Ireland. Again, that is wrong. Republicans only need to convince 50.1% of the whole of the 6 counties. That could means as little as 5% of unionists would have to vote for a united Ireland (if all catholics voted for). Now, if that happened what would the unionist attitude to democracy be I wonder?? Why, I'm sure there would be parades everywhere celebrating a truly historical democratic decision. What would you do EG?
Lots of pictures of the loyalist rent-a-mobs in today's Irish News. Evil Genius's smugness seems misplaced to me.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 12:00:42 PM
5times is exhibiting what most of the disident republicans I have come across do. Real bitterness and anger. The fact you bring Lewis Hamilton and the colour of his skin into the debate really shows your true colours to me. Conflict cannot continue indefinetely and the winning by conflict alone was never going to happen when you are in stalemate 30 years later. A political solution, a truce or a treaty of some sort ends most of these conflicts. In such a agreement both sides need to compromise and that is what happened. You are a tiny minority within the republican family and maybe you should remember that.
As for EG going on about republicans having to convince 1 million unionists on the benefits of a United Ireland. Again, that is wrong. Republicans only need to convince 50.1% of the whole of the 6 counties. That could means as little as 5% of unionists would have to vote for a united Ireland (if all catholics voted for). Now, if that happened what would the unionist attitude to democracy be I wonder?? Why, I'm sure there would be parades everywhere celebrating a truly historical democratic decision. What would you do EG?
I'd happily attend an Orange parade in a Unitied Ireland :o
It seemed to me that the protesters had great confidence in themselves. They continued with a protest (which some predicted to cause mass rioting) in the confidence that the protestors would remain calm and dignified. In spite of all the hype and hysteria in the media and made real by the loyalists the protestors did exactly what they said they would do. The organisers of the protest had enough faith in themselves and their followers to continue their important and just protest. I find it funny if not expected, to see so many disappointed that the protestors did not lower themselves to the level craved by the Unionists. All the predictions made by Unionists and the trouble to come which was blamed on Republicans (even before there was any protest) is now forgotten and the attacks are now directed in a different direction. Well done to all concerned in the protest!!!
Quote from: Zapatista on November 03, 2008, 12:38:43 PM
It seemed to me that the protesters had great confidence in themselves. They continued with a protest (which some predicted to cause mass rioting) in the confidence that the protestors would remain calm and dignified. In spite of all the hype and hysteria in the media and made real by the loyalists the protestors did exactly what they said they would do. The organisers of the protest had enough faith in themselves and their followers to continue their important and just protest. I find it funny if not expected, to see so many disappointed that the protestors did not lower themselves to the level craved by the Unionists. All the predictions made by Unionists and the trouble to come which was blamed on Republicans (even before there was any protest) is now forgotten and the attacks are now directed in a different direction. Well done to all concerned in the protest!!!
Not all, but some. But yes, I noticed the same.
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 12:44:21 PM
Not all, but some. But yes, I noticed the same.
RTE have spent the last 10 years reporting that parades past off peacefully. What will they report next week? The USA did not invade Canada today?
Quote from: Zapatista on November 03, 2008, 12:50:28 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 12:44:21 PM
Not all, but some. But yes, I noticed the same.
RTE have spent the last 10 years reporting that parades past off peacefully. What will they report next week? The USA did not invade Canada today?
The found someone from Limerick who's in the British Army to say it's all a bit o' craic last night on the news too.
I found some of the Loyalists at the parade to be quite frightening. It's a credit to the protesters that they kept dignified and didn't take the bait that so many were hoping for. Thankfully it's over now. I'm just worried that they'll try and up the stakes next time.
See the Unionists weren't happy with it yesterday as there was no RAF flyover, therefore isn't a proper homecoming.
I was delighted with the nationalist response to this march at the weekend, they made their feelings of oppositiion well known and articulated their discomfort in a peaceful legitimate protest.
The coat tailers of dissident republicanism I cannot answer for nor wish to, but it was plain for all to see that the Loyalist community viewed this as another chance to assert perceived superiority over the nationalist population, we will see no such similar parades in Cardiff, Edinburgh or indeed London.
A service alone in St Annes would have been more dignified but would not have offended anyone so was never an option, instead the people of the six counties got their opportunity to welcome home 'their' troops with dignity....
In many ways Donagh is to Sinn Fein what Tony Fearon is to Tottenham Hotspur. fearon can see no wrong in his beloved Spurs, near bottom of the table, going nowhere fast, will do well to survive. Yet the odd result like a draw with Arsenal or a fortuitous win over Liverpool is enough to give him hope that better times are around the corner, those lucky results are simply papering over the cracks that the rest of us can see. The same is true with Sinn Fein and lackies like Donagh, they blindly cling to the idea of a United Ireland, the idea of an Irish language act or a stadium for all the good citizens of the North to use at the Maze, is the equivalent of a 4-4 draw with Arsenal to them. Enough to give them hope, but in truth not what they set out to achieve.
Sinn Fein voters can dress it up whatever way the chose, but the fact of the matter is that Sinn Fein are administering British rule in the North. They have settled way short of a United Ireland because it was the best deal they could get. There is nothing else on offer. Republicanism is dead. Dreams of a United Ireland have faded. We cannot do away with 1 million Unionists in the North, so like it or not we have to work with them. In a democracy it is majority rule and they are in the majority.
It may also be a bitter pill to swallow for Sinn Feiners to swallow, but no one here in the South really cares about the North. Its another world up there, a strange place and yes to many it is a different country. People down here have too much to worry about, the economy, house prices, job security and everyday living to worry about people who can stop bickering over who walks down what road. Southerners see yesterdays events as the British Army parading through Belfast, nothing more and nothing to get all worked up about.
I'd also like to wholeheartedly congratulate 5Times for having the strength and courage to be very tempted to call Lewis Hamiltons a nigger, but to refrain from doing so.
You are an inspiration to us all 5Times ::)
On topic, good too see the protests held in a dignified manner.
Anyone who has a position of "We cannot do away with 1 million Unionists in the North" is deluded. Deluded to think it was ever the position of anyone and deluded to think it ever will be.
A united Ireland s Organic and will probably come to pass. Republicanism and Unionism is not the problem. The problem is Nationalism!!! Republicanism and Unionism are Political ideals while Nationalism is a tool of control. Nationalism is more divisive here than religion. It will always be as long as we buy in to the patriotic bullshit we are brain washed in. Nationalism is a tool of war appealing to the emotion of the most vulnerable (most stupid) in society in order to keep us loyal to one or another. The 'them and us" mentality of the British and Irish Nationalism was clear to see with the Loyalist mobs yesterday. Those Loyalists were covered in their UJs and British symbolism looking for a confrontation with people they expected to be Irish Nationals and were disappointed when they were meet with Republicans. While all the flagless and colourless Unionists were in the city centre having a nice day the most vulnerable (and stupid) of brain washed British Nationalists were trowing bottles and singing sectarian songs. Republicanism and Nationalism need to be separated as widely as possible for Republicanism to show its true potentail.
Quote from: his holiness nb on November 03, 2008, 01:58:15 PM
On topic, good too see the protests held in a dignified manner.
When I was talking to the local protesters afterwards they said there is no credit in behaving in a dignified manner. It should be expected by everyone and it was expected by those locals in attendance. I think much of this false credit comes from RTE reports of nothing over 10 years.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 03, 2008, 01:44:54 PM
In many ways Donagh is to Sinn Fein what Tony Fearon is to Tottenham Hotspur. fearon can see no wrong in his beloved Spurs, near bottom of the table, going nowhere fast, will do well to survive. Yet the odd result like a draw with Arsenal or a fortuitous win over Liverpool is enough to give him hope that better times are around the corner, those lucky results are simply papering over the cracks that the rest of us can see. The same is true with Sinn Fein and lackies like Donagh, they blindly cling to the idea of a United Ireland, the idea of an Irish language act or a stadium for all the good citizens of the North to use at the Maze, is the equivalent of a 4-4 draw with Arsenal to them. Enough to give them hope, but in truth not what they set out to achieve.
Sinn Fein voters can dress it up whatever way the chose, but the fact of the matter is that Sinn Fein are administering British rule in the North. They have settled way short of a United Ireland because it was the best deal they could get. There is nothing else on offer. Republicanism is dead. Dreams of a United Ireland have faded. We cannot do away with 1 million Unionists in the North, so like it or not we have to work with them. In a democracy it is majority rule and they are in the majority.
It may also be a bitter pill to swallow for Sinn Feiners to swallow, but no one here in the South really cares about the North. Its another world up there, a strange place and yes to many it is a different country. People down here have too much to worry about, the economy, house prices, job security and everyday living to worry about people who can stop bickering over who walks down what road. Southerners see yesterdays events as the British Army parading through Belfast, nothing more and nothing to get all worked up about.
What the f**k is your problem - do you want me to petition Gerry for a medal on your behalf? I attended the funeral this morning of a man who did time for the Republic in every decade from the '40's to the '80's. He also lost his health and members of his family. For the Mass I sat with a woman who had dedicated her life to the Republic, lost a son and saw her husband remaining sons do long stretches both north and south, and lost quite considerable family fortune, all in the name of the Republic. I watched a number of men do Guard of Honour beside the coffin, all 50's men, my father included, who've done long stretches and all made personal sacrifices for the Republic. Never once have I ever heard any of these people do anywhere near the amount of bitching I see coming from you every time you post on this Board, or express the kind of vitriol or bitterness than seeps from every one of your posts, even though God knows they would probably have justification to do so. To a person, everyone of them are still proud of their sacrifice, who they are and where they come from and to a person they'd do the same again and to a person would still help out in anyway they could if it would assist the 'movement'. If your bitterness has driven you into being a partitionist 'Free Stater' and happy with your lot, that's grand, but let's not pretend you are some sort of grand hero for doing so. There are many better, more experienced and more intelligent men then you who have chosen to continue the struggle and improve things for out people (in both jurisdictions) by whatever means suit the times.
I agree Donagh, there are too many men in the North who made their sacrafices with quiet dignity and who don't need preached to from someone who ran across the border for protection!
5times you seem to be somewhat confused! You come across on some of your posts as a supporter of some form of dissidents then you turn around and talk about the people of the south not caring about what happens in the North that the only thing they care about is economics therefore by presumption, you say that the only people who could have done something was Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein. Sure Sinn Fein and the republican people of the North are not asking anyone's permission to live on the island of Ireland in a free and democratic way. You seem to be mistaken that I and other republican's care about what the people of the south think - this is no surprise to us to hear that they think its a different country - shock horror! What Sinn Fein have done is give us the confidence not to care and the faith that we can reach self-determination through the art of political persuasion using our own intelligence and philosophies, ones in which we have confidence in.
If you had a reasoned political and philosophical mind, you would know that to still be using bullet and bomb would only be ammunition against us. Don't forget, as you keep reminding us of the fact that SF are administering British Rule that it is more efficient to take someting apart from within, than trying to get into something from outside, implosion will happen, thats always been SF's policy, how can we do that if not from within and all this when Unionists can't hold anything against us i.e violence. As far as I can see things are going very much to plan!!!
Sf should get the F out of stormont. Things were much better when there wasn't "a catholic about the place". :o
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 03, 2008, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 11:12:12 AM
Which, if we are truly honest, was only what yesterday's Parade was all about. For this was not some "Army of Occupation" sent over by Westminster to kick down doors in Ballymurphy and drag the occupants off to a compound in Long Kesh. Rather, it was a Regiment of Irish soldiers, Protestant and Catholic, from North and South, marching through their home city, after a tour of duty in Afghanistan, where they had been flying the Queen's Colours and operating under the mandate of the United Nations. Which in 2008 is the reality of "the British presence in Ireland"
And it seems to me that if that is ever going to change, then the Nationalist population of Ireland need first to recognise and accept that reality.
Hmmm an awful lot of "somes" ignored there EG.
Some people may have opposed the march because:
a) Where the soldiers are returning from. People from all walks of life, countries etc.. have conscientious objections to the "War on Terror"
b) The origins of the RIR (Were they not formed from the UDR, a regiment who had almost 300 members convicted of terrorist offenses?)
c) They are unhappy with past British Army actions in Northern Ireland (Bloody Sunday etc..)
d) They were on the direct receiving end of British Army actions in Northern Ireland. (Families of victims such as Aidan McAnespie's)
By defining yesterday's protests in purely tribal terms you are just as bad as thosed you are criticising.
/Jim.
I have no doubt that the various protestors will have many motives for having been out yesterday - if I gave the impression that it was all one "tribe", with one, single motive then OK, I might have been more careful with what I posted.
But that does not detract from my main point, which is that when protestors demand an end to the presence of "British troops in Ireland", they are not just talking about squaddies from some anonymous English town, sent to Belfast to crack a few Paddy skulls, before flying into Baghdad to rough up the ragheads etc, thence to Kabul to take a shot at the Taliban etc.
Those soldiers are as Irish* as any protestor, and as they march up Royal Avenue, they are marching through a city which is as much their home as that of the protestors. Moreover, the crowds who turned out to welcome them, were cheering for their own sons, brothers and fathers etc, and have just as much right to do so as any other person on the island.
Which is what Irish Republicans must face up to. Unless they (Reps) can somehow manage to drive a million people off the island - and they've not managed it in 400 years - then the Unionists are in Ireland to stay. And it must be obvious to all but the bitter or self-deluded, that whilst they are in Ireland, they will not be coerced, tricked or finessed into a United Ireland against their will.
* - The name "Royal Irish Regiment" is a bit of a giveaway, I find... ;)
What's your point EG? I don't think it really matters where they are from, If they are Irish or British or Chinese? The protest was against actions carried out by these people not about where they are from. Should the pensioners not have protested last week as Brian Lenihan is from Castleknock and Briian Cowen is from Tullamore (or close by)?
I thought we'd had an end to this nonsense when Sammy left. Let's get something clear, there are not nor have there ever been a million unionists in the six counties.
2005 election
Combined unionist (DUP, UUP, Alliance, Conservatives) vote: 400,179
Currently between 8%-12% of these unionists would need to change their voting preference now to trigger an UI or if we leave it a few years about 5%. Not an unrealistic target and the reason why unionist political parties will do their damnedest to stoke the tribal/sectarian fires for as long as possible.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 12:00:42 PM
As for EG going on about republicans having to convince 1 million unionists on the benefits of a United Ireland. Again, that is wrong. Republicans only need to convince 50.1% of the whole of the 6 counties. That could means as little as 5% of unionists would have to vote for a united Ireland (if all catholics voted for). Now, if that happened what would the unionist attitude to democracy be I wonder?? Why, I'm sure there would be parades everywhere celebrating a truly historical democratic decision. What would you do EG?
Fair enough, I'll accept your point about it only taking 50% +1, thereby only requiring maybe 5% of Unionists to switch. But I would add two further points of my own.
First, do you think the tactics of those who advocate a United Ireland, such as we saw yesterday, are actually achieving anything in terms of persuading the necessary 5%? Clearly the only answer must be "no". In fact, such activities only strengthen the resolve of Unionists. Which actually exposes the inherent contradiction in Irish Republicanism, namely, that the more they try to inveigle Unionists into a UI, whether by force or otherwise, the more they resist.
Second, even if you manage to persuade your 5% of Unionists, how much can you take for granted the "catholics" [sic] of NI to continue to vote pretty much unanimously for a United Ireland? These things can flow both ways. In fact, when you consider the increasing apathy of the people South of the border towards all things NI, plus the difficult economic times ahead of us, whereby GB is likely to prove a more secure haven for a beleagured NI than the Republic, I wouldn't be surprised if the tide were now flowing in our direction.
After all, if large numbers of Nationalists were not prepared to get out of bed on Sunday morning in order to be "offended", who's to say they'll all stride out on some future Thursday to a Polling Station, so as to be "liberated" via the stroke of a pencil?
No-one, but the mindless few EG, want to drive the million or so Unionists off the island. They'd hope to show that a United Ireland is beneficial to the Unionist community, as well as the Nationalist / Republican community.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 03, 2008, 12:09:08 PM
Lots of pictures of the loyalist rent-a-mobs in today's Irish News. Evil Genius's smugness seems misplaced to me.
I've no doubt that the presence of SF and eirige etc persuaded their "Loyalist" counterparts to see their first Sunday morning in years, and join the crowds on the streets of Belfast. And I'm hardly surprised that when choosing which photos to use in this morning's paper, the Editor of the IN focused on the most "dramatic" of those - i.e. those lowlife which you correctly characterise as "loyalist rent-a-mobs".
But I am a long way from being "smug" about this. I daresay I find these scumbags just as objectionable as you do and deplore their presence yesterday equally forceably.
But their presence as a clearly small minority on the streets does not detract from the overwhelming message of the day, any more than the presence of an equally small number of SF/eirige protestors: Namely, that the RIR is perfectly entitled to parade through the streets of their home city, to a rousing welcome from their friends, families and loved ones, and there's not a damned thing you, Loyalist hoods, SF protestors or anyone else can do to stop them.
And if that last sentence is, indeed, "smug", then I make no apology for it, since I and many others have waited a long time for this moment.
Faugh a Ballagh! ;)
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 03:44:00 PM
First, do you think the tactics of those who advocate a United Ireland, such as we saw yesterday, are actually achieving anything in terms of persuading the necessary 5%? Clearly the only answer must be "no". In fact, such activities only strengthen the resolve of Unionists. Which actually exposes the inherent contradiction in Irish Republicanism, namely, that the more they try to inveigle Unionists into a UI, whether by force or otherwise, the more they resist.
Second, even if you manage to persuade your 5% of Unionists, how much can you take for granted the "catholics" [sic] of NI to continue to vote pretty much unanimously for a United Ireland? These things can flow both ways. In fact, when you consider the increasing apathy of the people South of the border towards all things NI, plus the difficult economic times ahead of us, whereby GB is likely to prove a more secure haven for a beleagured NI than the Republic, I wouldn't be surprised if the tide were now flowing in our direction.
After all, if large numbers of Nationalists were not prepared to get out of bed on Sunday morning in order to be "offended", who's to say they'll all stride out on some future Thursday to a Polling Station, so as to be "liberated" via the stroke of a pencil?
EG, you obviously weren't there yesterday so let me just point something out as you seem to be harbouring some sort of notion that yesterday was a victory of sorts for unionism. Living abroad you've probably missed it, but the overwhelming impression of yesterday was that the worst of the loyalist underclass were again on display and managed to disgrace the whole unionist community with their vile behaviour. That no unionist leaders have come out and condemned this despite the fact it's been over all of the papers and tv reports will ensure the long term drift from unionism will continue as it has for the last 20 years. With populations trend continuing 5% of unionism might not even be needed as no self respecting person would want to be anywhere near this type of gutter snipe nileist unionism that offers nothing to society.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 03:44:00 PM
After all, if large numbers of Nationalists were not prepared to get out of bed on Sunday morning in order to be "offended", who's to say they'll all stride out on some future Thursday to a Polling Station, so as to be "liberated" via the stroke of a pencil?
I think the rest of us would see that as a sign of community confidence rather than what happened in the unionist community who had to rely on the mobilsation of the worst of the loyalist gangsters, lumpenproletariat and armed paramilitaries in order to secure a march for a few dozen wee lads in funny suits.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 03:44:00 PM
After all, if large numbers of Nationalists were not prepared to get out of bed on Sunday morning in order to be "offended", who's to say they'll all stride out on some future Thursday to a Polling Station, so as to be "liberated" via the stroke of a pencil?
It was pointed out to you earlier in the thread that not all things done in the north are tribal. You accepted this. You then revert back to continue to use tribalism to justify your weak arguments.
Your misuse of quotes above is condescending and insulting.
You seem to accept that things have changed but are continually adamant that things will not change. I don't understand how someone can think in this way. I can understand why someone claims they think in this way.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 03:26:43 PM
[But that does not detract from my main point, which is that when protestors demand an end to the presence of "British troops in Ireland", they are not just talking about squaddies from some anonymous English town, sent to Belfast to crack a few Paddy skulls, before flying into Baghdad to rough up the ragheads etc, thence to Kabul to take a shot at the Taliban etc.
Okay but........watching the news reports I didn't see a protest about "British troops in Ireland" but a protest about "actions of British troops in Ireland". Hence the names of victims on placards, the releasing of balloons. I thought that Sinn Féin played it clever in that regard. Is there a chance that some people just presumed what the protest was about?.
Looking at the media reports the only ones
portrayed as playing the tribal card were the loyalist crew and their chanting. Of course all and sundry are playing propaganda games here but from the outside looking in that's how it seemed.
/Jim.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 03, 2008, 04:01:44 PM
I don't understand how someone can think in this way.
Happens to most exiles, who when they begin to lose touch, retreat back to into what they know best, despite the rest of the world moving on.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 03:44:00 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 12:00:42 PM
As for EG going on about republicans having to convince 1 million unionists on the benefits of a United Ireland. Again, that is wrong. Republicans only need to convince 50.1% of the whole of the 6 counties. That could means as little as 5% of unionists would have to vote for a united Ireland (if all catholics voted for). Now, if that happened what would the unionist attitude to democracy be I wonder?? Why, I'm sure there would be parades everywhere celebrating a truly historical democratic decision. What would you do EG?
Fair enough, I'll accept your point about it only taking 50% +1, thereby only requiring maybe 5% of Unionists to switch. But I would add two further points of my own.
First, do you think the tactics of those who advocate a United Ireland, such as we saw yesterday, are actually achieving anything in terms of persuading the necessary 5%? Clearly the only answer must be "no". In fact, such activities only strengthen the resolve of Unionists. Which actually exposes the inherent contradiction in Irish Republicanism, namely, that the more they try to inveigle Unionists into a UI, whether by force or otherwise, the more they resist.
Second, even if you manage to persuade your 5% of Unionists, how much can you take for granted the "catholics" [sic] of NI to continue to vote pretty much unanimously for a United Ireland? These things can flow both ways. In fact, when you consider the increasing apathy of the people South of the border towards all things NI, plus the difficult economic times ahead of us, whereby GB is likely to prove a more secure haven for a beleagured NI than the Republic, I wouldn't be surprised if the tide were now flowing in our direction.
After all, if large numbers of Nationalists were not prepared to get out of bed on Sunday morning in order to be "offended", who's to say they'll all stride out on some future Thursday to a Polling Station, so as to be "liberated" via the stroke of a pencil?
I don't buy this either. If you consider that the majorty of people in the UK and the USA are against the current war in Iraq then I don't believe that this protest could have a negative effect on 95% of unionists. Surely, within Unionism, there is a large amount of people who are against the war in Iraq.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 03:56:51 PM
I've no doubt that the presence of SF and eirige etc persuaded their "Loyalist" counterparts to see their first Sunday morning in years, and join the crowds on the streets of Belfast. And I'm hardly surprised that when choosing which photos to use in this morning's paper, the Editor of the IN focused on the most "dramatic" of those - i.e. those lowlife which you correctly characterise as "loyalist rent-a-mobs".
:D :D
oh for fux sake
this guy gets better...
more loyalist violence apologisim :D
where does he stop ...
I suppose the next one will be that 'cromwell was just a tourist that was misunderstood and attacked' .... :D
I wonder if it had of been Republicans firing missiles in at the Loyalists, would there been a bigger uproar about it on the news, the papers and the politicians.
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 04:32:49 PM
I wonder if it had of been Republicans firing missiles in at the Loyalists, would there been a bigger uproar about it on the news, the papers and the politicians.
I think you know the answer to that one !
I reckon those 'text yer answer a , b or c ' tele quizes are harder to answer that than one !
:D
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 03, 2008, 04:36:51 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 04:32:49 PM
I wonder if it had of been Republicans firing missiles in at the Loyalists, would there been a bigger uproar about it on the news, the papers and the politicians.
I think you know the answer to that one !
I reckon those 'text yer answer a , b or c ' tele quizes are harder to answer that than one !
:D
We could run a telephone scam lynch and make a fortune. I believe Gs Man made a fortune off us at the beginning of the year. Niece my arse!
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 04:38:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 03, 2008, 04:36:51 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 04:32:49 PM
I wonder if it had of been Republicans firing missiles in at the Loyalists, would there been a bigger uproar about it on the news, the papers and the politicians.
I think you know the answer to that one !
I reckon those 'text yer answer a , b or c ' tele quizes are harder to answer that than one !
:D
We could run a telephone scam lynch and make a fortune. I believe Gs Man made a fortune off us at the beginning of the year. Niece my arse!
...how about an 'orangeathon'
:D
maybe get the bard of dunclug to come out of his hiding place and give us his szichoprenia impressions
and witty 'camp fire' tales of 'infiltrating the fenian enemy' (by looking at GAA websites)
and some of the hilarious banter he's reknown for ! :D
Quote from: Zapatista on November 03, 2008, 02:10:22 PM
Anyone who has a position of "We cannot do away with 1 million Unionists in the North" is deluded. Deluded to think it was ever the position of anyone and deluded to think it ever will be.
A united Ireland s Organic and will probably come to pass. Republicanism and Unionism is not the problem. The problem is Nationalism!!! Republicanism and Unionism are Political ideals while Nationalism is a tool of control. Nationalism is more divisive here than religion. It will always be as long as we buy in to the patriotic bullshit we are brain washed in. Nationalism is a tool of war appealing to the emotion of the most vulnerable (most stupid) in society in order to keep us loyal to one or another. The 'them and us" mentality of the British and Irish Nationalism was clear to see with the Loyalist mobs yesterday. Those Loyalists were covered in their UJs and British symbolism looking for a confrontation with people they expected to be Irish Nationals and were disappointed when they were meet with Republicans. While all the flagless and colourless Unionists were in the city centre having a nice day the most vulnerable (and stupid) of brain washed British Nationalists were trowing bottles and singing sectarian songs. Republicanism and Nationalism need to be separated as widely as possible for Republicanism to show its true potentail.
Whilst I would hardly agree with your characterisation of yesterday's events(!), I will run with your general thesis, and put this back to you. If for the sake of argument we remove the trappings of Nationalism, both British and Irish, from the debate, so that we are left with pure versions of Republicanism and Unionism to battle for the hearts and minds of the people of Ireland, you appear to assume that a United Ireland would (probably) come to pass, almost as if it were pre-ordained. Which would imply that Republicanism must in some way be more inherently attractive than Unionism; or that Unionists in some way lack fully critical faculties, so that they have almost been "brainwashed" into taking their stance.
Well I've news for you. Unionism does not exist merely as a riposte to Irish Nationalism, so that if Irish Nationalism were to be removed, then Unionism would suddenly evaporate before our eyes. Nor is Unionism something which has been imposed upon us by our Masters in England etc. In fact, Unionism has been a proud, principled and legitmate political movement in Ireland for every bit as long as Republicanism. Consequently, it will not be enough for the latter to clear away the offensive or threatening trappings of Irish Nationalism, put on its best suit and tie, present us with a fresh bunch of flowers and quote a few of Yeats's more lyrical verses, for our Unionist Heart to melt.
For Unionsim has its own coherence and attractions, dearly held by its adherents and not to be forsaken lightly.
Which brings us right back to yesterday's parade. One of (the?) chief attractions of Unionism is that it allows us to take our place in the United Kingdom, alongside our British brothers and sisters. As such, there can be few, if any, more powerful affirmations of this than that demonstrated by voluntary enlistment in a (common) British Army, allowing us to serve Queen and Country as our ancestors have done for centuries before, from Normandy to the Somme, to Waterloo and beyond. Which is why, when Republicans and Nationalists determined to attach a greater meaning upon the parade, it became for Unionists so much more than merely a chance to welcome home our fathers, sons and brothers home from the latest conflict. Rather, that parade became a representation of an entire people, indeed, a people "whose day had come" (if I may borrow an apposite phrase!)
Faugh a Ballagh!
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 03:43:36 PM
I thought we'd had an end to this nonsense when Sammy left. Let's get something clear, there are not nor have there ever been a million unionists in the six counties.
2005 election
Combined unionist (DUP, UUP, Alliance, Conservatives) vote: 400,179
Currently between 8%-12% of these unionists would need to change their voting preference now to trigger an UI or if we leave it a few years about 5%. Not an unrealistic target and the reason why unionist political parties will do their damnedest to stoke the tribal/sectarian fires for as long as possible.
Sinn fein seem to be doing a damn fine job of helping to this end.
"The day will come when we fight them, today is not that day" - A line from Brian Leeson's speech yesterday,
perhaps I've taken that out of context but that sounds chilling, I hope we're not meant to take that on face value.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 04:21:48 PM
I don't buy this either. If you consider that the majorty of people in the UK and the USA are against the current war in Iraq then I don't believe that this protest could have a negative effect on 95% of unionists. Surely, within Unionism, there is a large amount of people who are against the war in Iraq.
You miss one very important part of the equation, yes lots of people in the UK and USA are against the war but almost all are in favour of the troops and thats a very important disctinction.
Yesterdays protests would be construed as anti-troops and therefore not very popular to say the least.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 04:49:06 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 03, 2008, 02:10:22 PM
Anyone who has a position of "We cannot do away with 1 million Unionists in the North" is deluded. Deluded to think it was ever the position of anyone and deluded to think it ever will be.
A united Ireland s Organic and will probably come to pass. Republicanism and Unionism is not the problem. The problem is Nationalism!!! Republicanism and Unionism are Political ideals while Nationalism is a tool of control. Nationalism is more divisive here than religion. It will always be as long as we buy in to the patriotic bullshit we are brain washed in. Nationalism is a tool of war appealing to the emotion of the most vulnerable (most stupid) in society in order to keep us loyal to one or another. The 'them and us" mentality of the British and Irish Nationalism was clear to see with the Loyalist mobs yesterday. Those Loyalists were covered in their UJs and British symbolism looking for a confrontation with people they expected to be Irish Nationals and were disappointed when they were meet with Republicans. While all the flagless and colourless Unionists were in the city centre having a nice day the most vulnerable (and stupid) of brain washed British Nationalists were trowing bottles and singing sectarian songs. Republicanism and Nationalism need to be separated as widely as possible for Republicanism to show its true potentail.
Whilst I would hardly agree with your characterisation of yesterday's events(!), I will run with your general thesis, and put this back to you. If for the sake of argument we remove the trappings of Nationalism, both British and Irish, from the debate, so that we are left with pure versions of Republicanism and Unionism to battle for the hearts and minds of the people of Ireland, you appear to assume that a United Ireland would (probably) come to pass, almost as if it were pre-ordained. Which would imply that Republicanism must in some way be more inherently attractive than Unionism; or that Unionists in some way lack fully critical faculties, so that they have almost been "brainwashed" into taking their stance.
Well I've news for you. Unionism does not exist merely as a riposte to Irish Nationalism, so that if Irish Nationalism were to be removed, then Unionism would suddenly evaporate before our eyes. Nor is Unionism something which has been imposed upon us by our Masters in England etc. In fact, Unionism has been a proud, principled and legitmate political movement in Ireland for every bit as long as Republicanism. Consequently, it will not be enough for the latter to clear away the offensive or threatening trappings of Irish Nationalism, put on its best suit and tie, present us with a fresh bunch of flowers and quote a few of Yeats's more lyrical verses, for our Unionist Heart to melt.
For Unionsim has its own coherence and attractions, dearly held by its adherents and not to be forsaken lightly.
Which brings us right back to yesterday's parade. One of (the?) chief attractions of Unionism is that it allows us to take our place in the United Kingdom, alongside our British brothers and sisters. As such, there can be few, if any, more powerful affirmations of this than that demonstrated by voluntary enlistment in a (common) British Army, allowing us to serve Queen and Country as our ancestors have done for centuries before, from Normandy to the Somme, to Waterloo and beyond. Which is why, when Republicans and Nationalists determined to attach a greater meaning upon the parade, it became for Unionists so much more than merely a chance to welcome home our fathers, sons and brothers home from the latest conflict. Rather, that parade became a representation of an entire people, indeed, a people "whose day had come" (if I may borrow an apposite phrase!)
Faugh a Ballagh!
An alternative view would be that it was the dying, damp squib of loyalism waving wee union jacks at £180 a week Taliban and al-Qaida cannonfodder who are too thick to get a job doing anything else but dying for some parasite in buck house. unionism has never been a proud, principled and legitimate movement in ireland ... unionism has been all about keeping the native Irish people down by violent and political means, an aparthied system practised by foreigners who always thought they were superior to the people they attempted to control ... but who never for a second of this centuries-long domination accepted that control, despite being labelled 'terrorists' ... and talking of being deluded, if you think your british brothers and sisters give a flying fiddler's f**k about the scarf-wearing scum on the scaffodling yesterday, who were the REAL representation of an entire people ... now, go and swig a bottle of gaviscon, i'm sure you're suffering severe indigestion after swallowing that oxford english dictionary
Quote from: Zapatista on November 03, 2008, 03:31:57 PM
The protest was against actions carried out by these people not about where they are from.
Really? I listened to the 15 minute speech at the barricade yesterday by Brian Leeson of eirige on YouTube, and there was no mention e.g. of the rights of the people of Helmand Province that I heard. Rather, it was all about "undying resistance", "getting the Brits Out" and the maintenance of "physical force" to establish the "United Irish Republic our fathers and forefathers fought and died for blah, blah, blah"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1072306004065845106&ei=RhgOSfGaBoT22gLn4u3BBQ&q=eirigi
P.S. On a lighter note, in observing the way Leeson continually had to stop, even sometimes mid-sentence, to suck in breath, chew his tongue and find his place on the page again etc, was anyone else reminded of that glorious episode where Alan Partridge had to give a speech to a Conference of Heating Engineers? Perhaps Leeson had impaled his foot on a British spike? Hilarious. :D
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uIqa11NCbmA&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ytDCZS9oM&feature=related
ETG, you completely wasted that post on me :D
Either you miss my point entirely or you are an example of my point.
Your ramble is not the Unionism I was holding separate as a political ideal but a Unionism steeped in Nationalism. Your longings to be connected with your British brothers and sisters and your place in the UK is entirely a product of British Nationalism and no more than an emotion rather than a political ideal. It is of no realistic benefit to anyone other than someone who is politically attached to the UK. Then your heavy Nationalism can be tapped into to serve the political needs of those politically attached to the UK. You are merely a tool at the whim of British politicians who attach a Union Jack to anything which is wrong but needs support. The faithfull British Nationalist will jump to support the cause and the true meaning of the Union Jack and the Queen, God save her. Ireland boast these robots too.
Unionism as a political ideal is at home in Ireland. Political Unionism and Republicanism are not connected to Nationalism. Political Unionism and Republicanism tap into the resourceful emotion of Nationalism to gain support and justify their actions in the view of many.
Unionism is an ideal whereas we (they) are better placed if a Union is maintained with Britain which is a monarchy. Republicanism is an ideal were no one is born with a title and political leaders and heads of state are elected (as is the Republic oI). Two political ideals not connected to Nationalism.
I did not say Unionism would dissapear in a UI. You seem overly defencive there ???
There was a united Ireland before which was not a Republic but there were Republicans in that UI. The Rep. o Ire is a Republic yet it has some Unionists among it's citizens. I am not naive enough to think a UI will bring an end to Unionism I just believe an end to Nationalism will bring a UI, and a Republic.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 04:49:06 PM
Which brings us right back to yesterday's parade. One of (the?) chief attractions of Unionism is that it allows us to take our place in the United Kingdom, alongside our British brothers and sisters.
In that case, you could have no possible objection to a referendum on the north's position within the 'United' Kingdom been held on an all-UK basis, given that they're your "brothers and sisters", or could you?
Quote from: Zapatista on November 03, 2008, 05:32:32 PM
Unionism as a political ideal is at home in Ireland. Political Unionism and Republicanism are not connected to Nationalism. Political Unionism and Republicanism tap into the resourceful emotion of Nationalism to gain support and justify their actions in the view of many.
Unionism is an ideal whereas we (they) are better placed if a Union is maintained with Britain which is a monarchy. Republicanism is an ideal were no one is born with a title and political leaders and heads of state are elected (as is the Republic oI). Two political ideals not connected to Nationalism.
I did not say Unionism would dissapear in a UI. You seem overly defencive there ???
There was a united Ireland before which was not a Republic but there were Republicans in that UI. The Rep. o Ire is a Republic yet it has some Unionists among it's citizens. I am not naive enough to think a UI will bring an end to Unionism I just believe an end to Nationalism will bring a UI, and a Republic.
So...... if that's all 'republicans' are concerned about, if British republicanism won the day and created the 'United Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland', would republicanism in Northern Ireland cease to exist? Would it have to find a new name for itself?
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 03:43:36 PM
I thought we'd had an end to this nonsense when Sammy left. Let's get something clear, there are not nor have there ever been a million unionists in the six counties.
2005 election
Combined unionist (DUP, UUP, Alliance, Conservatives) vote: 400,179
Taking your figures from the 2005 Election, 400,179 amounts to 55.77% of the turnout:
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/rw2005.htm
Therefore, we may conclude that 55.77% of the population of NI is Unionist. The nearest reliable population figure I can get for 2005 is (an estimated) 1,741,600 in 2006:
http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news/news-dfp/news-dfp-february-2008/news-dfp-280208-overall-population-growth.htm
And 55.77% of 1,741,600 works out at 971,290.
Fair enough, if you want to make a liar out of me for 28,710 people then go ahead, knock yourself out...
P.S. I'd enjoy your little victory whilst you can, for as the NIO points out
"...The population of Northern Ireland is projected to increase by seventy thousand people (4%) over the five years from 2006 to 2011". With 55.77% of 70,000 amounting to 39,039, I'd say Unionism will hit the million mark some time towards the end of next year, or early 2010! :D
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 03:43:36 PM
Currently between 8%-12% of these unionists would need to change their voting preference now to trigger an UI or if we leave it a few years about 5%.
That would only work if the Nationalist vote remains solid. You appear not to accept the possibility that Nationalists might be just as easily persuaded to change their voting preference as Unionists.
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 03:43:36 PM
Not an unrealistic target and the reason why unionist political parties will do their damnedest to stoke the tribal/sectarian fires for as long as possible.
I daresay some Unionists/Loyalists will attempt to maintain the vote along tribal/sectarian lines, just as their counterparts within Nationalism/Republicanism will do likewise. However, just as the more perceptive and far-sighted Nationalists (at least) appreciate that their quickest hope towards a UI is to persuade Unionists to switch, so do the more perceptive and far-sighted of those in Unionism appreciate that their best hope lies within persuading Nationalists to switch.
On which latter point, now that the Border is an evermore less important issue for ordinary people in NI, then I suspect that "normal" politics such as health, jobs and education etc will assume greater significance in determining how people vote. And these issues are inevitably both an engine of, and a product of, our wider economic prospects*, I feel that remaining within the United Kingdom will offer greater security than joining the (ailing) Celtic Tiger to our South, at least for the next decade or so.
Which is why it is actually in the interests of Republicans like SF and Eirige to keep the pot boiling over the Border Question as much as possible. Hence their need to come out onto the streets of Belfast yesterday to be "offended", when any normal person will have pulled the duvet over his head and copped an extra hour's kip on a Sunday morning...
* - Was it Bill Clinton who proclaimed: "It's the Economy, Stupid!"?
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 02:21:31 PM
There are many better, more experienced and more intelligent men then you who have chosen to continue the struggle and improve things for out people (in both jurisdictions) by whatever means suit the times.
Donagh you are really outdoing yourself this time. Continue what struggle? Sitting in Stormont drinking tea with Peter Robinson and Reg Empty is in no way a continuing a struggle. The 1994 ceasefire was the unconditional surrender of the IRA. Sinn Fein taking their seats in Stormont was the final nail in the coffin. They are administering British rule in the North and the only thing more pathetic than that is the fact that you are in denial.
You spoke of a man who was imprisoned in every decade from the 40s to the 80s, is it any wonder we lost with volunteers of that caliber. Then again the people he trusted were probably working for the other side. Its not as if you arent riddled with informers now is it? :D How is Scap keeping these days? I believe he has a lovely little villa in Tuscany, I wonder who paid for that? Then again, where did the money for all those holiday homes in Donegal come from? Maybe Donaldson couldnt keep up his repayments :D
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 03:44:22 PM
No-one, but the mindless few EG, want to drive the million or so Unionists off the island. They'd hope to show that a United Ireland is beneficial to the Unionist community, as well as the Nationalist / Republican community.
When I hear what SF and Eirige etc were saying yesterday, I saw absolutely no benefit for the Unionist community in their manifesto - quite the opposite, in fact.
Anyhow, I suppose I should qualify my "drive a million Unionists off the island" remark to "accept a United Ireland on
our terms, or clear off", which was effectively the choice offered to those Unionists who were caught on the Southern side of the Border in 1921. And as we've seen that population decline from something over 10% then, to less than 3% now (or "Statistically Insignificant", as the demographers call it), that choice is hardly very appealing.
P.S. I don't imagine for one moment imagine that the modern Irish Republic of 2008 is anything like the Free State of 1921 when I say that. But if there is even a 1% chance that our joining a UI would deliver us into the hands of the likes of Brian Leeson or Gerry Adams, then it will be a Cold Day in Hell before any Unionist will take that risk.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 03, 2008, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on November 03, 2008, 01:58:15 PM
On topic, good too see the protests held in a dignified manner.
When I was talking to the local protesters afterwards they said there is no credit in behaving in a dignified manner. It should be expected by everyone and it was expected by those locals in attendance. I think much of this false credit comes from RTE reports of nothing over 10 years.
I'd agree 100%. You shouldn't get a gold star for not being a thug - it should be the minimum standard of conduct.
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 04:00:38 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 03:44:00 PM
After all, if large numbers of Nationalists were not prepared to get out of bed on Sunday morning in order to be "offended", who's to say they'll all stride out on some future Thursday to a Polling Station, so as to be "liberated" via the stroke of a pencil?
I think the rest of us would see that as a sign of community confidence rather than what happened in the unionist community who had to rely on the mobilsation of the worst of the loyalist gangsters, lumpenproletariat and armed paramilitaries in order to secure a march for a few dozen wee lads in funny suits.
Does that mean that those who did turn out to protest
don't share the confidence of the wider Nationalist Community?
Quote from: Tonto on November 03, 2008, 05:58:16 PM
So...... if that's all 'republicans' are concerned about, if British republicanism won the day and created the 'United Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland', would republicanism in Northern Ireland cease to exist? Would it have to find a new name for itself?
It would not cease to exist anyway, how could you run a Republic without Republicans? Irish Nationalism would probably raise it's ugly head to take the lead in the call for a UI. There are Republicans who are also Nationalists and the over lap would prob keep the issue of a UI high on the agenda.
There would still be Unionists and Irish Nationalists and the issue of cultural and ethnic unity among the Irish people.
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 03:03:59 PM
You seem to be mistaken that I and other republican's care about what the people of the south think
You don't? Why not? SF obviously care enough to contest elections and northern republicans aspire to be united with people in the south, do they not?
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 03:03:59 PM
If you had a reasoned political and philosophical mind, you would know that to still be using bullet and bomb would only be ammunition against us.
Whereas previously it was the right approach? Its use was not previously ammunition against the Republican cause?
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 03:03:59 PM
Don't forget, as you keep reminding us of the fact that SF are administering British Rule that it is more efficient to take someting apart from within, than trying to get into something from outside, implosion will happen, thats always been SF's policy, how can we do that if not from within and all this when
So what's the argument for not taking seats at Westminster then? Working from the inside has most definitely
not always been SF's policy. History lesson required.
Quote from: thejuice on November 03, 2008, 05:05:58 PM
"The day will come when we fight them, today is not that day" - A line from Brian Leeson's speech yesterday,
perhaps I've taken that out of context but that sounds chilling, I hope we're not meant to take that on face value.
How else was it meant to be taken?
In the end, whilst people on the Nationalist side see the antics of a few Loyalist rent-a-mob types yesterday and get seriously discomforted, their counterparts on the Unionsit side are no less disturbed when they hear the likes of Leeson issued his scarcely veiled threats.
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2008, 05:12:02 PM
An alternative view would be that it was the dying, damp squib of loyalism waving wee union jacks at £180 a week Taliban and al-Qaida cannonfodder who are too thick to get a job doing anything else but dying for some parasite in buck house. unionism has never been a proud, principled and legitimate movement in ireland ... unionism has been all about keeping the native Irish people down by violent and political means, an aparthied system practised by foreigners who always thought they were superior to the people they attempted to control ... but who never for a second of this centuries-long domination accepted that control, despite being labelled 'terrorists' ... and talking of being deluded, if you think your british brothers and sisters give a flying fiddler's f**k about the scarf-wearing scum on the scaffodling yesterday, who were the REAL representation of an entire people ... now, go and swig a bottle of gaviscon, i'm sure you're suffering severe indigestion after swallowing that oxford english dictionary
You know, you're quite right, I'd never seen it that way! Anyhow, that's me persuaded and no mistake. Where do I sign up to join eirige?
P.S. Who was it predicted the following last Friday?
« Reply #720 on: October 31, 2008, 06:30:49 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Boys, there'll be a couple of coded phone warnings on Sunday morning and the parade by the brave heroes of the rir will be cancelled... end of story"What went wrong, eh? Was your Mobile Phone out of Credit and your Mammy wouldn't give you an advance on your pocket money until you'd tidied your bedroom?
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 03, 2008, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 02:21:31 PM
There are many better, more experienced and more intelligent men then you who have chosen to continue the struggle and improve things for out people (in both jurisdictions) by whatever means suit the times.
Donagh you are really outdoing yourself this time. Continue what struggle? Sitting in Stormont drinking tea with Peter Robinson and Reg Empty is in no way a continuing a struggle. The 1994 ceasefire was the unconditional surrender of the IRA. Sinn Fein taking their seats in Stormont was the final nail in the coffin. They are administering British rule in the North and the only thing more pathetic than that is the fact that you are in denial.
You spoke of a man who was imprisoned in every decade from the 40s to the 80s, is it any wonder we lost with volunteers of that caliber. Then again the people he trusted were probably working for the other side. Its not as if you arent riddled with informers now is it? :D How is Scap keeping these days? I believe he has a lovely little villa in Tuscany, I wonder who paid for that? Then again, where did the money for all those holiday homes in Donegal come from? Maybe Donaldson couldnt keep up his repayments :D
So what 5ivetimes, do you think armed struggle should have continued?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 03, 2008, 07:01:28 PMSo what 5ivetimes, do you think armed struggle should have continued?
Aww, would you look at that.
"The struggle".
Did the poor souls "struggle" to murder, maim and bomb their way into a United.... er Kingdom Parliament in Belfast?
The f**king "struggle". What a barrel of shite.
QuoteDid the poor souls "struggle" to murder, maim and bomb
Yeah, unlike your lot they hadn't a government and "security forces" to back them up or do it for them.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 06:55:31 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 03, 2008, 05:12:02 PM
An alternative view would be that it was the dying, damp squib of loyalism waving wee union jacks at £180 a week Taliban and al-Qaida cannonfodder who are too thick to get a job doing anything else but dying for some parasite in buck house. unionism has never been a proud, principled and legitimate movement in ireland ... unionism has been all about keeping the native Irish people down by violent and political means, an aparthied system practised by foreigners who always thought they were superior to the people they attempted to control ... but who never for a second of this centuries-long domination accepted that control, despite being labelled 'terrorists' ... and talking of being deluded, if you think your british brothers and sisters give a flying fiddler's f**k about the scarf-wearing scum on the scaffodling yesterday, who were the REAL representation of an entire people ... now, go and swig a bottle of gaviscon, i'm sure you're suffering severe indigestion after swallowing that oxford english dictionary
You know, you're quite right, I'd never seen it that way! Anyhow, that's me persuaded and no mistake. Where do I sign up to join eirige?
P.S. Who was it predicted the following last Friday?
« Reply #720 on: October 31, 2008, 06:30:49 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Boys, there'll be a couple of coded phone warnings on Sunday morning and the parade by the brave heroes of the rir will be cancelled... end of story"
What went wrong, eh? Was your Mobile Phone out of Credit and your Mammy wouldn't give you an advance on your pocket money until you'd tidied your bedroom?
Nah, ran outta 10 pences oh lord knowitall shipyard historian and master of verbosity ... where's yer wee bastardised Irish RIR motto at the bottom of yer posts, i'm really missing it...
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 03, 2008, 07:09:59 PM
QuoteDid the poor souls "struggle" to murder, maim and bomb
Yeah
Says it all, really.
What does it say?
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 04:00:38 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 03:44:00 PM
After all, if large numbers of Nationalists were not prepared to get out of bed on Sunday morning in order to be "offended", who's to say they'll all stride out on some future Thursday to a Polling Station, so as to be "liberated" via the stroke of a pencil?
I think the rest of us would see that as a sign of community confidence
You couldn't make this sort of stuff up - except you did!
So the fact that SF and eirige etc were unable to persuade more than a fraction of their usual supporters to forsake a couple of hours in bed, in order to be "offended" in person is a sign of "community confidence"? :D :D :D
And there was me thinking that none but the most bitter and self-deluded amongst them (that includes you, btw) can be arsed to bother any longer with this sort of thing....
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 04:00:38 PM
rather than what happened in the unionist community who had to rely on the mobilsation of the worst of the loyalist gangsters, lumpenproletariat and armed paramilitaries in order to secure a march for a few dozen wee lads in funny suits.
You know, I really think you believe that, don't you? Well as someone who has actually spoken to some of the Unionists who were there - unlike you - and who has a closer insight as to what makes Unionists tick than you, let me put my own interpretation on events.
This "Welcome Home Parade" would likely have persuaded a few thousand of the most committed i.e. friends and family, to come out to greet their loved ones back in Belfast. However, as soon as it became clear that SF were holding a counter-demonstration, thereby politicising the whole event, that prompted many more from the wider Unionist community to turn out than would otherwise have done so, in order to demonstrate the general goodwill which they hold towards the troops .
And when the temperature was raised even further, paricularly by the likes of eirige, with their provocative posters about "child murderers" etc, then that brought out their knuckle-dragging counterparts on the "Loyalist" [
sic] side.
Which in turn allowed SF to come up with a new, almost clever, but nonetheless utterly misleading soundbite about so-called "Loyalist Mobilisation" ::) (It also served to distract from the utterly pathetic turnout they managed to attract).
Anyhow, the vast majority of Unionists on the pavements yesterday will have been as disgusted at seeing those paramilitary hoods attempt to hi-jack their day out, just as they will have been by the likes of SF and eirige, whom likewise tried to hi-jack it for their own ends.
As for the Loyalist hoods themselves, never mind "mobilisation", as someone said on Friday, these days their ability to organise collectively doesn't go beyond arranging a p1ss-up in a shebeen... ::)
Quote from: delboy on November 03, 2008, 05:07:22 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 04:21:48 PM
I don't buy this either. If you consider that the majorty of people in the UK and the USA are against the current war in Iraq then I don't believe that this protest could have a negative effect on 95% of unionists. Surely, within Unionism, there is a large amount of people who are against the war in Iraq.
You miss one very important part of the equation, yes lots of people in the UK and USA are against the war but almost all are in favour of the troops and thats a very important disctinction.
Yesterdays protests would be construed as anti-troops and therefore not very popular to say the least.
Is that why numerous cities in the UK decided against similar parades?
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 04:49:06 PM
Well I've news for you. Unionism does not exist merely as a riposte to Irish Nationalism, so that if Irish Nationalism were to be removed, then Unionism would suddenly evaporate before our eyes. Nor is Unionism something which has been imposed upon us by our Masters in England etc. In fact, Unionism has been a proud, principled and legitmate political movement in Ireland for every bit as long as Republicanism. Consequently, it will not be enough for the latter to clear away the offensive or threatening trappings of Irish Nationalism, put on its best suit and tie, present us with a fresh bunch of flowers and quote a few of Yeats's more lyrical verses, for our Unionist Heart to melt.
Really? Perhaps you would like to outline for us some of the principles and ideology behind this political movement? While you are at it perhaps you might like to tell us who were the main unionist figures around the time the first Irish republican movement was setup in 1791.
Quote from: thejuice on November 03, 2008, 05:05:58 PM
"The day will come when we fight them, today is not that day" - A line from Brian Leeson's speech yesterday,
perhaps I've taken that out of context but that sounds chilling, I hope we're not meant to take that on face value.
The context was asking permission from the Brits to walk down Irish roads.
Quote from: Donagh on November 02, 2008, 02:24:14 PM
I was very impressed with the éirígí protest. Very far from the rabble and spides some people would have you believe. It was a disciplined and dignified protest with representation from all parts of Ireland - good to see so many making the early journey up from Dublin and Cork. Not one Celtic shirt on display and even Hardstation would be impressed by the amount of Gaelic being spoken among the crowd. In music terms you could say it was more Damian Dempsey than the Wolfe Tones.
Fivetimes now supports British troops marching on Irish streets. Whatever next...
I had refrained till now to reply to this post as I saw something completely different myself on Sunday morning. As a resident of the Lower Falls, with a clear view of all events I saw clearly loads of spides and wannabee RA 'men' complete with Celtic jerseys I might add. I know that some former Provo prisoners showed their heads as well. I am not saying that the crowd was full of rabble as it most clearly was not, there were people there purely out of conviction and truthfully there were more there out of conviction than there were scumbags.
The point I am making is that things were not as you portrayed them. Scumbags were present and also... I spotted loads of Shinners in close proximity to events outside StMarys school. It had been suggested in one of the Sunday papers that the Shinners did some sort of deal with the various dissident groups. From what I witnessed on Sunday, I am inclined to believe it.
By the way, the reference to Celtic jerseys I made is borne out by pics in local newspapers this morning :)
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: thejuice on November 03, 2008, 05:05:58 PM
"The day will come when we fight them, today is not that day" - A line from Brian Leeson's speech yesterday,
perhaps I've taken that out of context but that sounds chilling, I hope we're not meant to take that on face value.
The context was asking permission from the Brits to walk down Irish roads.
Yes, but what was meant by 'fight'? I think that is what is being questioned.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 06:07:41 PM
Taking your figures from the 2005 Election, 400,179 amounts to 55.77% of the turnout:
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/rw2005.htm
Therefore, we may conclude that 55.77% of the population of NI is Unionist. The nearest reliable population figure I can get for 2005 is (an estimated) 1,741,600 in 2006:
And 55.77% of 1,741,600 works out at 971,290.
Fair enough, if you want to make a liar out of me for 28,710 people then go ahead, knock yourself out...
P.S. I'd enjoy your little victory whilst you can, for as the NIO points out "...The population of Northern Ireland is projected to increase by seventy thousand people (4%) over the five years from 2006 to 2011". With 55.77% of 70,000 amounting to 39,039, I'd say Unionism will hit the million mark some time towards the end of next year, or early 2010!
No you may not conclude any such thing other than there are 400k unionists. Just as valid, or more likely than your conclusion, is the assert that the those who don't vote don't give a feck, so you may not presume they are unionist. Those kind of arrogant assumptions is tribalism at it worst, as is the rest of that particular post. There are not and never have been 1 million unionists or anywhere near it.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 08:24:52 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: thejuice on November 03, 2008, 05:05:58 PM
"The day will come when we fight them, today is not that day" - A line from Brian Leeson's speech yesterday,
perhaps I've taken that out of context but that sounds chilling, I hope we're not meant to take that on face value.
The context was asking permission from the Brits to walk down Irish roads.
Yes, but what was meant by 'fight'? I think that is what is being questioned.
I took it to mean to walk up the road.
Sorry Maguire01, but without getting derogatory about it, a history lesson is most certainly not required. Whilst abstentionism was definitely a part of the pre-1986 brigade, SF felt from that moment in time that participation using physical abstentionism was a better course of action than totally abstaining altogether, hence the sitting of SF as members of parliament without attendance. You can pick me up on the word "always" however the context I refer to is post 1986 split and although not acted upon, SF was already debating this policy from within the cages of long kesh as early as 1973 after internment.
Regarding the bullet and bomb aspect, I just want to ask you a fair and reasoned question - Do you think that without physical force republicanism, catholics would be able to have the freedoms we currently have in the North of Ireland such as equality (on the whole) and cultural freedom (to a certain extent - we're not there yet)? Do you think that somewhere along the line the unionist controlled parliament here would have found it in their hearts to give us the freedoms we deserve as human beings? Its not a loaded question but if you could give a non-derogatory answer I would be very grateful!
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 07:24:47 PM
So the fact that SF and eirige etc were unable to persuade more than a fraction of their usual supporters to forsake a couple of hours in bed, in order to be "offended" in person is a sign of "community confidence"?
How do you mean a "fraction of their usual supporters"? As far as I was aware that's the largest protest éirígí have staged in the two years of their existence and many of those present were on the road a long time before the loyalist knuckledraggers that turned out to disgrace us all. As for SF, 2000 at a protest is a very respectable figure. Their dignified and respectable protest came over a lot better than the masses of drunken spides hanging from the scaffolding chanting the Windsor Park playlist.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 07:24:47 PM
You know, I really think you believe that, don't you? Well as someone who has actually spoken to some of the Unionists who were there - unlike you - and who has a closer insight as to what makes Unionists tick than you, let me put my own interpretation on events.
I think they would call that 'hearsay'. I attended the days proceedings, you did not. I have also spoken to unionist friends and they were totally disgusted by the behaviour of the unionist Neanderthals and appalled by the presence of gangsters associating themselves with the events and receiving cheers from the onlookers.
Just to qualify, I know the protests should be always held without incident, this SHOULD be a given.
But this is the North and quite ofter is not the case, as we saw in the actions of Loyalist paramilitaries at the homecoming parade.
This is nothing to do with SF or eirigi or anyone else encouraging the loyalists out, its simple, hold a parade for the likes of these soldiers and people of their own level will turn out to welcome them, thats why we saw the scumbags in abundance.
The soldiers are no better, in fact possibly worse than the UDA /loyalists scum we saw attend.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 08:21:45 PM
I had refrained till now to reply to this post as I saw something completely different myself on Sunday morning. As a resident of the Lower Falls, with a clear view of all events I saw clearly loads of spides and wannabee RA 'men' complete with Celtic jerseys I might add. I know that some former Provo prisoners showed their heads as well. I am not saying that the crowd was full of rabble as it most clearly was not, there were people there purely out of conviction and truthfully there were more there out of conviction than there were scumbags.
The point I am making is that things were not as you portrayed them. Scumbags were present and also... I spotted loads of Shinners in close proximity to events outside StMarys school. It had been suggested in one of the Sunday papers that the Shinners did some sort of deal with the various dissident groups. From what I witnessed on Sunday, I am inclined to believe it.
By the way, the reference to Celtic jerseys I made is borne out by pics in local newspapers this morning :)
I'm not sure what you are getting at or what part of my post you are objecting to. Is it the bit about Celtic tops? I didn't see any at éirígí protest and there were no spides taking part in the protest. A few hangers-on came up behind while the protest was at the PSNI lines but the were quickly dealt with by the marshals.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on November 03, 2008, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 02:21:31 PM
There are many better, more experienced and more intelligent men then you who have chosen to continue the struggle and improve things for out people (in both jurisdictions) by whatever means suit the times.
Donagh you are really outdoing yourself this time. Continue what struggle? Sitting in Stormont drinking tea with Peter Robinson and Reg Empty is in no way a continuing a struggle. The 1994 ceasefire was the unconditional surrender of the IRA. Sinn Fein taking their seats in Stormont was the final nail in the coffin. They are administering British rule in the North and the only thing more pathetic than that is the fact that you are in denial.
You spoke of a man who was imprisoned in every decade from the 40s to the 80s, is it any wonder we lost with volunteers of that caliber. Then again the people he trusted were probably working for the other side. Its not as if you arent riddled with informers now is it? :D How is Scap keeping these days? I believe he has a lovely little villa in Tuscany, I wonder who paid for that? Then again, where did the money for all those holiday homes in Donegal come from? Maybe Donaldson couldnt keep up his repayments :D
5iveTimes I think you've clearly shown on this thread that your not worth replying to, so I think this will be the last.
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 08:21:45 PM
I had refrained till now to reply to this post as I saw something completely different myself on Sunday morning. As a resident of the Lower Falls, with a clear view of all events I saw clearly loads of spides and wannabee RA 'men' complete with Celtic jerseys I might add. I know that some former Provo prisoners showed their heads as well. I am not saying that the crowd was full of rabble as it most clearly was not, there were people there purely out of conviction and truthfully there were more there out of conviction than there were scumbags.
The point I am making is that things were not as you portrayed them. Scumbags were present and also... I spotted loads of Shinners in close proximity to events outside StMarys school. It had been suggested in one of the Sunday papers that the Shinners did some sort of deal with the various dissident groups. From what I witnessed on Sunday, I am inclined to believe it.
By the way, the reference to Celtic jerseys I made is borne out by pics in local newspapers this morning :)
I'm not sure what you are getting at or what part of my post you are objecting to. Is it the bit about Celtic tops? I didn't see any at éirígí protest and there were no spides taking part in the protest. A few hangers-on came up behind while the protest was at the PSNI lines but the were quickly dealt with by the marshals.
Your intimations that eirigi are a sound bunch of people ring hollow with what I saw for myself.
Do you understand?
Quote from: his holiness nb on November 03, 2008, 08:45:17 PM
Just to qualify, I know the protests should be always held without incident, this SHOULD be a given.
But this is the North and quite ofter is not the case, as we saw in the actions of Loyalist paramilitaries at the homecoming parade.
This is nothing to do with SF or eirigi or anyone else encouraging the loyalists out, its simple, hold a parade for the likes of these soldiers and people of their own level will turn out to welcome them, thats why we saw the scumbags in abundance.
The soldiers are no better, in fact possibly worse than the UDA /loyalists scum we saw attend.
Sure they are all one UDR/ RIR whatever you want to call them. Bad shower of c***ts. Manys an innocent taig was murdered at their hands.
A shinner protest was justified, and on the whole part seemed to be dignified and peaceful.
The rent a mob on the other side just couldnt behave and yet again showed themselves up for what they are in front of the world media.
Did they even acknowledge the homecoming as they adjusted their rangers scarves up around their faces, and chanted obscene sectarian insults ??
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 08:47:20 PM
5iveTimes I think you've clearly shown on this thread that your not worth replying to, so I think this will be the last.
The truth hurts Donagh :D
I used to think you had to wait until Connolly house opened in the morning to get an opinion, but I was wrong, you probably just call your handlers like everyone else in Sinn fein :D
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 08:52:17 PM
Your intimations that eirigi are a sound bunch of people ring hollow with what I saw for myself.
Do you understand?
He is incapable of understanding, his head is firmly buried in the sand.
Donagh I suppose ardmhachaabu had an agenda, or is he bitter and twisted? He couldnt be right, how could he, he was only there. Maybe you could buy him a pair of Sinn Fein blinkers, are they still available by mail order from An Phoblacht.
This is so f*cked up that I am agreeing with someone called ardmhachaabu, well done Donagh, you`ll have me going to mass next.
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 08:28:10 PM
Sorry Maguire01, but without getting derogatory about it, a history lesson is most certainly not required. Whilst abstentionism was definitely a part of the pre-1986 brigade, SF felt from that moment in time that participation using physical abstentionism was a better course of action than totally abstaining altogether, hence the sitting of SF as members of parliament without attendance. You can pick me up on the word "always" however the context I refer to is post 1986 split and although not acted upon, SF was already debating this policy from within the cages of long kesh as early as 1973 after internment.
Well it was on the basis of 'always' that i picked you up on it. That and the continued abstention from Westminster. If the policy was to "take something apart from within", then surely they'd be in London too. I'm also hoping they're in the Assembly for constructive purposes - to work for the poeple who put them there, and not just to "take
it apart from within ".
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 08:28:10 PM
Regarding the bullet and bomb aspect, I just want to ask you a fair and reasoned question - Do you think that without physical force republicanism, catholics would be able to have the freedoms we currently have in the North of Ireland such as equality (on the whole) and cultural freedom (to a certain extent - we're not there yet)? Do you think that somewhere along the line the unionist controlled parliament here would have found it in their hearts to give us the freedoms we deserve as human beings? Its not a loaded question but if you could give a non-derogatory answer I would be very grateful!
And i'll ask you a question in return - Was it a price worth paying?
In answering your question, i believe that democratic policies - and a lot of external pressure - would have yielded the same result. Possibly sooner, and without the bloodshed. I don't believe that Unionists would have been able to continue as they had been. But that's a whole other thread and there's no point in taking this way off track.
Cat got your tongue 5ivetimes, what's your alternative?
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 08:40:46 PM
How do you mean a "fraction of their usual supporters"? As far as I was aware that's the largest protest éirígí have staged in the two years of their existence
Does that in itself not prove that they have no popular support?
My alternative is to live out the rest of my life in peace with my neighbours. I`ll spend 3 months of the year in my holiday home in Florida and continue to pay my taxes here in Ireland. I dont care what happens anymore. But the hypocrisy of Idiots like Donagh who would like to take the moral high ground sickens my hole, they (Sinn Fein) are in the pay of their sworn enemy. They are running NI on behalf of Her Majesty`s Government, but if the truth be told, Her Majestys Government has been running the Republican movement for some time.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 08:18:21 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 03, 2008, 05:07:22 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 04:21:48 PM
I don't buy this either. If you consider that the majorty of people in the UK and the USA are against the current war in Iraq then I don't believe that this protest could have a negative effect on 95% of unionists. Surely, within Unionism, there is a large amount of people who are against the war in Iraq.
You miss one very important part of the equation, yes lots of people in the UK and USA are against the war but almost all are in favour of the troops and thats a very important disctinction.
Yesterdays protests would be construed as anti-troops and therefore not very popular to say the least.
Is that why numerous cities in the UK decided against similar parades?
So you think britsh troops are unpopular in the UK?
I see you also conviently left the US out of your reply, i wonder why??
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 08:52:17 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 08:21:45 PM
I had refrained till now to reply to this post as I saw something completely different myself on Sunday morning. As a resident of the Lower Falls, with a clear view of all events I saw clearly loads of spides and wannabee RA 'men' complete with Celtic jerseys I might add. I know that some former Provo prisoners showed their heads as well. I am not saying that the crowd was full of rabble as it most clearly was not, there were people there purely out of conviction and truthfully there were more there out of conviction than there were scumbags.
The point I am making is that things were not as you portrayed them. Scumbags were present and also... I spotted loads of Shinners in close proximity to events outside StMarys school. It had been suggested in one of the Sunday papers that the Shinners did some sort of deal with the various dissident groups. From what I witnessed on Sunday, I am inclined to believe it.
By the way, the reference to Celtic jerseys I made is borne out by pics in local newspapers this morning :)
I'm not sure what you are getting at or what part of my post you are objecting to. Is it the bit about Celtic tops? I didn't see any at éirígí protest and there were no spides taking part in the protest. A few hangers-on came up behind while the protest was at the PSNI lines but the were quickly dealt with by the marshals.
Your intimations that eirigi are a sound bunch of people ring hollow with what I saw for myself.
Do you understand?
My what? I said the protest was disciplined, dignified and respectful. What part of that are you disagreeing with?
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 09:02:35 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 08:40:46 PM
How do you mean a "fraction of their usual supporters"? As far as I was aware that's the largest protest éirígí have staged in the two years of their existence
Does that in itself not prove that they have no popular support?
I'm sorry, did I say somewhere they had popular support? As far as I know they are a fairly recently formed pressure group and as such I wouldn't expect them to have much popular support. Are you trying to say only groups with popular support are entitled to protest?
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 06:07:41 PM
Taking your figures from the 2005 Election, 400,179 amounts to 55.77% of the turnout:
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/rw2005.htm
Therefore, we may conclude that 55.77% of the population of NI is Unionist. The nearest reliable population figure I can get for 2005 is (an estimated) 1,741,600 in 2006:
And 55.77% of 1,741,600 works out at 971,290.
Fair enough, if you want to make a liar out of me for 28,710 people then go ahead, knock yourself out...
P.S. I'd enjoy your little victory whilst you can, for as the NIO points out "...The population of Northern Ireland is projected to increase by seventy thousand people (4%) over the five years from 2006 to 2011". With 55.77% of 70,000 amounting to 39,039, I'd say Unionism will hit the million mark some time towards the end of next year, or early 2010!
No you may not conclude any such thing other than there are 400k unionists. Just as valid, or more likely than your conclusion, is the assert that the those who don't vote don't give a feck, so you may not presume they are unionist. Those kind of arrogant assumptions is tribalism at it worst, as is the rest of that particular post. There are not and never have been 1 million unionists or anywhere near it.
Then by your logic, if there only 400,179 Unionists in NI, then there are only 301,825 Nationalists in NI. Or, to express it another way, 55.3% of the voting population of NI is Unionist, whereas only 41.7% is Nationalist.
Or if you prefer, 23.0% of the total population of NI is Unionist, and 17.3% is Nationalist.
Either way, I'm beginning to like this Psephology mullarkey more and more... ;)
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 09:22:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 09:02:35 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 08:40:46 PM
How do you mean a "fraction of their usual supporters"? As far as I was aware that's the largest protest éirígí have staged in the two years of their existence
Does that in itself not prove that they have no popular support?
I'm sorry, did I say somewhere they had popular support? As far as I know they are a fairly recently formed pressure group and as such I wouldn't expect them to have much popular support. Are you trying to say only groups with popular support are entitled to protest?
They're entitled to protest, if the so wish. But they're unlikely to be taken seriously.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 09:33:09 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 06:07:41 PM
Taking your figures from the 2005 Election, 400,179 amounts to 55.77% of the turnout:
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/rw2005.htm
Therefore, we may conclude that 55.77% of the population of NI is Unionist. The nearest reliable population figure I can get for 2005 is (an estimated) 1,741,600 in 2006:
And 55.77% of 1,741,600 works out at 971,290.
Fair enough, if you want to make a liar out of me for 28,710 people then go ahead, knock yourself out...
P.S. I'd enjoy your little victory whilst you can, for as the NIO points out "...The population of Northern Ireland is projected to increase by seventy thousand people (4%) over the five years from 2006 to 2011". With 55.77% of 70,000 amounting to 39,039, I'd say Unionism will hit the million mark some time towards the end of next year, or early 2010!
No you may not conclude any such thing other than there are 400k unionists. Just as valid, or more likely than your conclusion, is the assert that the those who don't vote don't give a feck, so you may not presume they are unionist. Those kind of arrogant assumptions is tribalism at it worst, as is the rest of that particular post. There are not and never have been 1 million unionists or anywhere near it.
Then by your logic, if there only 400,179 Unionists in NI, then there are only 301,825 Nationalists in NI. Or, to express it another way, 55.3% of the voting population of NI is Unionist, whereas only 41.7% is Nationalist.
Or if you prefer, 23.0% of the total population of NI is Unionist, and 17.3% is Nationalist.
Either way, I'm beginning to like this Psephology mullarkey more and more... ;)
I have already said that you are wrong when you say there are 1 million unionists. Now if you would like to contradict that and produce evidence there are more than 400k, then go ahead. Otherwise, let's try to stay on topic.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 09:34:44 PM
They're entitled to protest, if the so wish. But they're unlikely to be taken seriously.
Perhaps, but they have to start somewhere.
Donagh, it was your contention in the post I quoted you from initially where you said there wasn't a Celtic top to be seen.
That is blatantly bullshit. There are photos of eirigi ones in the local media clearly showing several punters towards the forefront of the eirigi ones who are wearing Celtic jerseys.
I didn't suggest that eirigi had misbehaved in any way, from what I have heard of the speeches, the leaders would have had a different outcome if they had had their way.
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 09:35:23 PM
I have already said that you are wrong when you say there are 1 million unionists. Now if you would like to contradict that and produce evidence there are more than 400k, then go ahead. Otherwise, let's try to stay on topic.
I assume the 1m figure is based on the 'Protestant' population from the last NI census (which is around 900,000). Obviously Protestant = Unionist isn't entirely scientific, but it's probably close enough(?)
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 09:35:23 PM
I have already said that you are wrong when you say there are 1 million unionists. Now if you would like to contradict that and produce evidence there are more than 400k, then go ahead.
Fine. You are quite correct. There are only 400k Unionists in NI. So remind me again, how many Nationalists are there?
Why does it have to be a nationist parade against the war in Iraq? Why not just a parade against the war? To me it is a moral issue and nothing to do with who a person would vote for.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 09:48:41 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 09:35:23 PM
I have already said that you are wrong when you say there are 1 million unionists. Now if you would like to contradict that and produce evidence there are more than 400k, then go ahead. Otherwise, let's try to stay on topic.
I assume the 1m figure is based on the 'Protestant' population from the last NI census (which is around 900,000). Obviously Protestant = Unionist isn't entirely scientific, but it's probably close enough(?)
It was I who cited the "1 million Unionists in NI" claim. Donagh disputed this, on the basis that Unionist Parties (DUP, UUP, Alliance, Conservative) only received 400,179 votes in the 2005 Election.
Which caused me to post the following:
Taking your figures from the 2005 Election, 400,179 amounts to 55.77% of the turnout:
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/rw2005.htm
Therefore, we may conclude that 55.77% of the population of NI is Unionist. The nearest reliable population figure I can get for 2005 is (an estimated) 1,741,600 in 2006:
http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news/news-dfp/news-dfp-february-2008/news-dfp-280208-overall-population-growth.htm
And 55.77% of 1,741,600 works out at 971,290.
Fair enough, if you want to make a liar out of me for 28,710 people then go ahead, knock yourself out...
P.S. I'd enjoy your little victory whilst you can, for as the NIO points out "...The population of Northern Ireland is projected to increase by seventy thousand people (4%) over the five years from 2006 to 2011". With 55.77% of 70,000 amounting to 39,039, I'd say Unionism will hit the million mark some time towards the end of next year, or early 2010!
Quote from: Maiden1 on November 03, 2008, 09:52:52 PM
Why does it have to be a nationist parade against the war in Iraq? Why not just a parade against the war? To me it is a moral issue and nothing to do with who a person would vote for.
Eh, because it was organised by SF?
EDIT: And on the basis of RIR activity in NI, against Nationalists.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 09:54:33 PM
P.S. I'd enjoy your little victory whilst you can, for as the NIO points out "...The population of Northern Ireland is projected to increase by seventy thousand people (4%) over the five years from 2006 to 2011". With 55.77% of 70,000 amounting to 39,039, I'd say Unionism will hit the million mark some time towards the end of next year, or early 2010!
Yes, but whatever about the rest of your argument, this doesn't really stack up as the Protestant population is generally regarded as being in decline - so the majority of these extra 70,000 will likely be Catholic. Or neither.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 09:46:33 PM
Donagh, it was your contention in the post I quoted you from initially where you said there wasn't a Celtic top to be seen.
That is blatantly bullshit. There are photos of eirigi ones in the local media clearly showing several punters towards the forefront of the eirigi ones who are wearing Celtic jerseys.
I didn't suggest that eirigi had misbehaved in any way, from what I have heard of the speeches, the leaders would have had a different outcome if they had had their way.
Perhaps you would like to post these photos or tell me who published them. I said I didn't see any Celtic tops and as I was telling the truth, it wasn't bullshit. I also mentioned the same to a few mates who were up from Dublin and they confirmed it also. Now we were all in amongst the crowd and perhaps didn't notice those on the outside as you may have done, but we were mingling for about half an hour beforehand and didn't see any.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 09:54:33 PM
P.S. I'd enjoy your little victory whilst you can, for as the NIO points out "...The population of Northern Ireland is projected to increase by seventy thousand people (4%) over the five years from 2006 to 2011". With 55.77% of 70,000 amounting to 39,039, I'd say Unionism will hit the million mark some time towards the end of next year, or early 2010!
Yes, but whatever about the rest of your argument, this doesn't really stack up as the Protestant population is generally regarded as being in decline - so the majority of these extra 70,000 will likely be Catholic. Or neither.
I'm not going by the Protestant headcount, whether in decline or otherwise. And even if the Unionist population is decreasing as a percentage of the overall NI population, that merely means it will take a few months longer than I predicted for Unionism to pick up the extra 29k they need to hit the Magic Million Mark, from the population increase of 70k which NI is projected to receive by 2011.
Anyhow, I'm still waiting to hear from Donagh about how many Nationalists there are in NI, so keep the lines open! :D
Maguire01 in answer to your question, do I think that physical force republicanism was worth it? - Only in so far that we now have a society which is more or less based on the principle of equality and it is mere conjecture to suggest that we would have achieved it without it. I can see the point that your making however I don't agree that we would have had the same outcome as the Unionist government already had 50 years to try and put things right before we had the onset of the troubles infact if anything at that stage things were getting worse for the catholic people of the six counties. Physical force was the last resort for many nationalists and was more of a reaction to provocation than anything else. I hate the fact that so many people lost their lives as a result of this situation but if your suggesting that things would have changed anyway, when the British and Irish governments had done nothing to control the fundamentalist fascism controlling the catholic people within our own country, then I think that is being very revisionist without any fact to base it on. The reason why this is very relevent to this topic is because SF have now got to a stage where physical force is no longer utilised as observed by yesterdays parade. A United Ireland can be fought on a political front, the search for democracy and equality had to be the first stage and that could not have been done without the use of physical force. To me yesterdays protest was just an example that we've completed the first stage, now we have to focus on the long term objective and thats the constitutional question - politically!
BTW - how do you post quotes on this?
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 10:10:24 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 09:54:33 PM
P.S. I'd enjoy your little victory whilst you can, for as the NIO points out "...The population of Northern Ireland is projected to increase by seventy thousand people (4%) over the five years from 2006 to 2011". With 55.77% of 70,000 amounting to 39,039, I'd say Unionism will hit the million mark some time towards the end of next year, or early 2010!
Yes, but whatever about the rest of your argument, this doesn't really stack up as the Protestant population is generally regarded as being in decline - so the majority of these extra 70,000 will likely be Catholic. Or neither.
I'm not going by the Protestant headcount, whether in decline or otherwise. And even if the Unionist population is decreasing as a percentage of the overall NI population, that merely means it will take a few months longer than I predicted for Unionism to pick up the extra 29k they need to hit the Magic Million Mark, from the population increase of 70k which NI is projected to receive by 2011.
Anyhow, I'm still waiting to hear from Donagh about how many Nationalists there are in NI, so keep the lines open! :D
You firstly asserted that there were 1 million unionists and then backed down to agree with me that there are 400k. Are you now saying there are a million again? If so where is your evidence?
Quote from: delboy on November 03, 2008, 09:15:45 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 08:18:21 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 03, 2008, 05:07:22 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 04:21:48 PM
I don't buy this either. If you consider that the majorty of people in the UK and the USA are against the current war in Iraq then I don't believe that this protest could have a negative effect on 95% of unionists. Surely, within Unionism, there is a large amount of people who are against the war in Iraq.
You miss one very important part of the equation, yes lots of people in the UK and USA are against the war but almost all are in favour of the troops and thats a very important disctinction.
Yesterdays protests would be construed as anti-troops and therefore not very popular to say the least.
Is that why numerous cities in the UK decided against similar parades?
So you think britsh troops are unpopular in the UK?
I see you also conviently left the US out of your reply, i wonder why??
The UK is the closest comparison to what happened in the Belfast. So can you tell me why similar parades were stopped in England? BTW, I don't oppose the parade because of the soldiers on the parade or their families or what side of the community they are from. I oppose the parade as I totally disagree with both the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq and the mass murder of innocent people there. I oppose torture of prisoners, I oppose countries that throw the geneva convention into the dustbin when it suits them, I oppose evil sanctions on Iraq, I oppose dropping cluster bombs on residential areas. I don't see anything worth celebrating in any of this and I feel depressed that anyone would pat someone on the back and say "well done" for the job in Afghanistan and Iraq. If southern Irish troops were taking part I'd be protesting against them marching in Dublin too.
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:12:31 PM
Maguire01 in answer to your question, do I think that physical force republicanism was worth it? - Only in so far that we now have a society which is more or less based on the principle of equality and it is mere conjecture to suggest that we would have achieved it without it. I can see the point that your making however I don't agree that we would have had the same outcome as the Unionist government already had 50 years to try and put things right before we had the onset of the troubles infact if anything at that stage things were getting worse for the catholic people of the six counties. Physical force was the last resort for many nationalists and was more of a reaction to provocation than anything else. I hate the fact that so many people lost their lives as a result of this situation but if your suggesting that things would have changed anyway, when the British and Irish governments had done nothing to control the fundamentalist fascism controlling the catholic people within our own country, then I think that is being very revisionist without any fact to base it on. The reason why this is very relevent to this topic is because SF have now got to a stage where physical force is no longer utilised as observed by yesterdays parade. A United Ireland can be fought on a political front, the search for democracy and equality had to be the first stage and that could not have been done without the use of physical force. To me yesterdays protest was just an example that we've completed the first stage, now we have to focus on the long term objective and thats the constitutional question - politically!
BTW - how do you post quotes on this?
At the top right of each post is a "quote" button. Click on that instead of hitting reply and you'll get the comment window with the text you wanted to quote already there. You can then go in and highlight stuff on that post in bold or whatever. Evil Genius could give you a tutorial on it ;)
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:12:31 PM
Maguire01 in answer to your question, do I think that physical force republicanism was worth it? - Only in so far that we now have a society which is more or less based on the principle of equality and it is mere conjecture to suggest that we would have achieved it without it. I can see the point that your making however I don't agree that we would have had the same outcome as the Unionist government already had 50 years to try and put things right before we had the onset of the troubles infact if anything at that stage things were getting worse for the catholic people of the six counties. Physical force was the last resort for many nationalists and was more of a reaction to provocation than anything else. I hate the fact that so many people lost their lives as a result of this situation but if your suggesting that things would have changed anyway, when the British and Irish governments had done nothing to control the fundamentalist fascism controlling the catholic people within our own country, then I think that is being very revisionist without any fact to base it on. The reason why this is very relevent to this topic is because SF have now got to a stage where physical force is no longer utilised as observed by yesterdays parade. A United Ireland can be fought on a political front, the search for democracy and equality had to be the first stage and that could not have been done without the use of physical force. To me yesterdays protest was just an example that we've completed the first stage, now we have to focus on the long term objective and thats the constitutional question - politically!
BTW - how do you post quotes on this?
At the top right of each post is a "quote" button. Click on that instead of hitting reply and you'll get the comment window with the text you wanted to quote already there. You can then go in and highlight stuff on that post in bold or whatever. Evil Genius could give you a tutorial on it ;)
Thanks Myles - I think I'll give EG a miss though - don't want my head too wrecked on a Monday evening! ;)
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 09:46:33 PM
Donagh, it was your contention in the post I quoted you from initially where you said there wasn't a Celtic top to be seen.
That is blatantly bullshit. There are photos of eirigi ones in the local media clearly showing several punters towards the forefront of the eirigi ones who are wearing Celtic jerseys.
I didn't suggest that eirigi had misbehaved in any way, from what I have heard of the speeches, the leaders would have had a different outcome if they had had their way.
Donagh, please reread and concentrate on the bit in bold.
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 10:13:58 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 10:10:24 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 09:54:33 PM
P.S. I'd enjoy your little victory whilst you can, for as the NIO points out "...The population of Northern Ireland is projected to increase by seventy thousand people (4%) over the five years from 2006 to 2011". With 55.77% of 70,000 amounting to 39,039, I'd say Unionism will hit the million mark some time towards the end of next year, or early 2010!
Yes, but whatever about the rest of your argument, this doesn't really stack up as the Protestant population is generally regarded as being in decline - so the majority of these extra 70,000 will likely be Catholic. Or neither.
I'm not going by the Protestant headcount, whether in decline or otherwise. And even if the Unionist population is decreasing as a percentage of the overall NI population, that merely means it will take a few months longer than I predicted for Unionism to pick up the extra 29k they need to hit the Magic Million Mark, from the population increase of 70k which NI is projected to receive by 2011.
Anyhow, I'm still waiting to hear from Donagh about how many Nationalists there are in NI, so keep the lines open! :D
You firstly asserted that there were 1 million unionists and then backed down to agree with me that there are 400k. Are you now saying there are a million again? If so where is your evidence?
"Backed down"? Bit of an overstatement there, Donagh.
For the record, I still contend there are 1 million Unionists in NI (or as near as dammit) and have clearly outlined my reasoning for doing so.
However,
for the sake of argument, I accepted your assertion that there are only 400k Unionists in NI, since I wanted to hear from you how many Nationalists you think there are in NI.
so have you an answer for me on this?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 09:46:33 PM
Donagh, it was your contention in the post I quoted you from initially where you said there wasn't a Celtic top to be seen.
That is blatantly bullshit. There are photos of eirigi ones in the local media clearly showing several punters towards the forefront of the eirigi ones who are wearing Celtic jerseys.
I didn't suggest that eirigi had misbehaved in any way, from what I have heard of the speeches, the leaders would have had a different outcome if they had had their way.
Donagh, please reread and concentrate on the bit in bold.
Only if you would like to do the same:
"Perhaps you would like to post these photos or tell me who published them. I said I didn't see any Celtic tops and as I was telling the truth, it wasn't bullshit. I also mentioned the same to a few mates who were up from Dublin and they confirmed it also. Now we were all in amongst the crowd and perhaps didn't notice those on the outside as you may have done, but we were mingling for about half an hour beforehand and didn't see any."Not that I don't believe you or anything, but I'm curious as I didn't see any and would like to see for myself.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 10:27:08 PM
"Backed down"? Bit of an overstatement there, Donagh.
For the record, I still contend there are 1 million Unionists in NI (or as near as dammit) and have clearly outlined my reasoning for doing so.
However, for the sake of argument, I accepted your assertion that there are only 400k Unionists in NI, since I wanted to hear from you how many Nationalists you think there are in NI.
so have you an answer for me on this?
What are you on? Are you saying there are 1 million unionists? Give me the hard evidence and less of your "reasoning" please.
Irish News, Newsletter. I daresay the Telegraph got a few as well, whether they published them or not is a different matter. There was also coverage on news items which showed spides in Celtic tops. Of course though, you managed not to see any of them. Good for you.
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:12:31 PM
Maguire01 in answer to your question, do I think that physical force republicanism was worth it? - Only in so far that we now have a society which is more or less based on the principle of equality and it is mere conjecture to suggest that we would have achieved it without it.
Well i can hardly
prove that that is what would have happened - you asked for my
opinion.
To give a parallel, has progress with regard to racial equality throughout the world been achieved through the violence of racial minorities?
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 10:30:15 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 10:27:08 PM
"Backed down"? Bit of an overstatement there, Donagh.
For the record, I still contend there are 1 million Unionists in NI (or as near as dammit) and have clearly outlined my reasoning for doing so.
However, for the sake of argument, I accepted your assertion that there are only 400k Unionists in NI, since I wanted to hear from you how many Nationalists you think there are in NI.
so have you an answer for me on this?
What are you on? Are you saying there are 1 million unionists? Give me the hard evidence and less of your "reasoning" please.
OK, you are correct, There are only 400k Unionists in NI. And 300k Nationalists. Or am I wrong about this latter figure, as well?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 10:31:56 PM
Irish News, Newsletter. I daresay the Telegraph got a few as well, whether they published them or not is a different matter. There was also coverage on news items which showed spides in Celtic tops. Of course though, you managed not to see any of them. Good for you.
I have the Irish News in front of me now and there are none. Looked at the Tele earlier and there were none in that either. Have just looked through the Newsletter website and I can't see any there either. Could it be possible that you are mistaken?
To give a parallel, has progress with regard to racial equality throughout the world been achieved through the violence of racial minorities?
[/quote]
In essence yes - look at the situation in South Africa would apartheid have been demolished without the use of physical force? We now have a situation where once a terrorist in many people's eyes (Nelson Mandella) is now regarded as a force of right for those seeking rights of their own. There are many examples of this on a racial front but also on a global front. Would Hitler have been defeated without the use of physical force reaction - no, we would have been living in a very different world today if this reaction hadn't have been utilised!
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 10:35:00 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 10:30:15 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 03, 2008, 10:27:08 PM
"Backed down"? Bit of an overstatement there, Donagh.
For the record, I still contend there are 1 million Unionists in NI (or as near as dammit) and have clearly outlined my reasoning for doing so.
However, for the sake of argument, I accepted your assertion that there are only 400k Unionists in NI, since I wanted to hear from you how many Nationalists you think there are in NI.
so have you an answer for me on this?
What are you on? Are you saying there are 1 million unionists? Give me the hard evidence and less of your "reasoning" please.
OK, you are correct, There are only 400k Unionists in NI. And 300k Nationalists. Or am I wrong about this latter figure, as well?
Thank you. I neither know nor care how many nationalists there are in the north, but while we are in the game of demanding answers, I think you may have missed those queries I had regarding your other claims about unionism, it's ideology and history.
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 10:31:56 PM
Irish News, Newsletter. I daresay the Telegraph got a few as well, whether they published them or not is a different matter. There was also coverage on news items which showed spides in Celtic tops. Of course though, you managed not to see any of them. Good for you.
I have the Irish News in front of me now and there are none. Looked at the Tele earlier and there were none in that either. Have just looked through the Newsletter website and I can't see any there either. Could it be possible that you are mistaken?
Nope.
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 10:31:56 PM
Irish News, Newsletter. I daresay the Telegraph got a few as well, whether they published them or not is a different matter. There was also coverage on news items which showed spides in Celtic tops. Of course though, you managed not to see any of them. Good for you.
I have the Irish News in front of me now and there are none. Looked at the Tele earlier and there were none in that either. Have just looked through the Newsletter website and I can't see any there either. Could it be possible that you are mistaken?
There's one hiding on page 5 of the Irish News - left hand side, under a coat. :P
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:41:32 PM
QuoteTo give a parallel, has progress with regard to racial equality throughout the world been achieved through the violence of racial minorities?
In essence yes - look at the situation in South Africa would apartheid have been demolished without the use of physical force? We now have a situation where once a terrorist in many people's eyes (Nelson Mandella) is now regarded as a force of right for those seeking rights of their own. There are many examples of this on a racial front but also on a global front. Would Hitler have been defeated without the use of physical force reaction - no, we would have been living in a very different world today if this reaction hadn't have been utilised!
So the whites in South Africa gave in due to violence. And the whites in the US gave in because the blacks were shooting whites and bombing cities? And you think without 'this violence', there would still be apartheid in SA and the US?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 10:43:57 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 10:31:56 PM
Irish News, Newsletter. I daresay the Telegraph got a few as well, whether they published them or not is a different matter. There was also coverage on news items which showed spides in Celtic tops. Of course though, you managed not to see any of them. Good for you.
I have the Irish News in front of me now and there are none. Looked at the Tele earlier and there were none in that either. Have just looked through the Newsletter website and I can't see any there either. Could it be possible that you are mistaken?
Nope.
Well you said they were pictured in the Irish News and the Tele and they are not. As I was there and you were looking on from a distance, my tendency is to think you are mistaken.
Maguire, my point is that Donagh was covering the truth. See, while he was saying yesterday there were no spides in Celtic tops, that's exactly what I saw a lot of yesterday morning. I couldn't say anything until I saw at least one image in the papers to say otherwise coz Donagh would have just said he didn't see it... much like he's doing now :D
Donagh, I said Irish News and Newsletter. The IN clearly shows a spide complete with Celtic top. I can assure you he wasn't on his own. The Newsletter captured some as well.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:45:23 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 03, 2008, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 10:31:56 PM
Irish News, Newsletter. I daresay the Telegraph got a few as well, whether they published them or not is a different matter. There was also coverage on news items which showed spides in Celtic tops. Of course though, you managed not to see any of them. Good for you.
I have the Irish News in front of me now and there are none. Looked at the Tele earlier and there were none in that either. Have just looked through the Newsletter website and I can't see any there either. Could it be possible that you are mistaken?
There's one hiding on page 5 of the Irish News - left hand side, under a coat. :P
Is that the young one where you can see a single stripe just above some boys head? I squinted at that but am not convinced. Besides he's ahead of the banner of which all the protesters were asked to stay behind. Looks like a some wee lad having a nosey. Very different profile from the protesters.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 03, 2008, 10:55:37 PM
The IN clearly shows a spide complete with Celtic top. I can assure you he wasn't on his own. The Newsletter captured some as well.
What page? Listen let's agree to disagree. From a distance you may have seen a few spides in the vicinity of the protest. I was on the protest and can assure you, the vast vast majority on the protest were not. There may have been a few arseholes hanging around the fringes in the hope that the media hype of trouble would come to pass, but there were none involved in the protest. I had spotted a few dicks with hoodies and covered faces in the bus stop opposite Divis tower before the protest started but they weren't involved and soon pissed off when they realised it wasn't their thing. As I mentioned before, about four, probably drunk spides joined the back of the crowd when we were at PSNI lines and started shouting "f**k Sin Fein" but they were quickly dealt with and sent on their way.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:48:43 PM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:41:32 PM
QuoteTo give a parallel, has progress with regard to racial equality throughout the world been achieved through the violence of racial minorities?
In essence yes - look at the situation in South Africa would apartheid have been demolished without the use of physical force? We now have a situation where once a terrorist in many people's eyes (Nelson Mandella) is now regarded as a force of right for those seeking rights of their own. There are many examples of this on a racial front but also on a global front. Would Hitler have been defeated without the use of physical force reaction - no, we would have been living in a very different world today if this reaction hadn't have been utilised!
So the whites in South Africa gave in due to violence. And the whites in the US gave in because the blacks were shooting whites and bombing cities? And you think without 'this violence', there would still be apartheid in SA and the US?
I absolutely do especially with reference to South Africa. Listen - I'm no advocate of violence however to use the analogy of our canine friend - if you punch and kick a dog long enough sooner or later it will bite the arm off you and what more could you expect? I ask you, what was being done in 1967 in the North when Catholics were being shot dead in their homes (prior to IRA reactionary violence), those who were'nt business class could not vote, nationalists were not allowed to have another identity other than British and families were being evicted to the streets to let single protestant women move in? Have we revised history so much that these social facts are now ignored - as I said earlier, 50 years of neglect and co-ercion was always going to have a breaking point!
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 11:04:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:48:43 PM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:41:32 PM
QuoteTo give a parallel, has progress with regard to racial equality throughout the world been achieved through the violence of racial minorities?
In essence yes - look at the situation in South Africa would apartheid have been demolished without the use of physical force? We now have a situation where once a terrorist in many people's eyes (Nelson Mandella) is now regarded as a force of right for those seeking rights of their own. There are many examples of this on a racial front but also on a global front. Would Hitler have been defeated without the use of physical force reaction - no, we would have been living in a very different world today if this reaction hadn't have been utilised!
So the whites in South Africa gave in due to violence. And the whites in the US gave in because the blacks were shooting whites and bombing cities? And you think without 'this violence', there would still be apartheid in SA and the US?
I absolutely do especially with reference to South Africa. Listen - I'm no advocate of violence however to use the analogy of our canine friend - if you punch and kick a dog long enough sooner or later it will bite the arm off you and what more could you expect? I ask you, what was being done in 1967 in the North when Catholics were being shot dead in their homes (prior to IRA reactionary violence), those who were'nt business class could not vote, nationalists were not allowed to have another identity other than British and families were being evicted to the streets to let single protestant women move in? Have we revised history so much that these social facts are now ignored - as I said earlier, 50 years of neglect and co-ercion was always going to have a breaking point!
You say you're no advocate of violence here, but then you pretty much advocate it.
No one is ignoring these social facts. They were what spawned the Civil Rights movement - that was a breaking point.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 11:13:45 PM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 11:04:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:48:43 PM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:41:32 PM
QuoteTo give a parallel, has progress with regard to racial equality throughout the world been achieved through the violence of racial minorities?
In essence yes - look at the situation in South Africa would apartheid have been demolished without the use of physical force? We now have a situation where once a terrorist in many people's eyes (Nelson Mandella) is now regarded as a force of right for those seeking rights of their own. There are many examples of this on a racial front but also on a global front. Would Hitler have been defeated without the use of physical force reaction - no, we would have been living in a very different world today if this reaction hadn't have been utilised!
So the whites in South Africa gave in due to violence. And the whites in the US gave in because the blacks were shooting whites and bombing cities? And you think without 'this violence', there would still be apartheid in SA and the US?
I absolutely do especially with reference to South Africa. Listen - I'm no advocate of violence however to use the analogy of our canine friend - if you punch and kick a dog long enough sooner or later it will bite the arm off you and what more could you expect? I ask you, what was being done in 1967 in the North when Catholics were being shot dead in their homes (prior to IRA reactionary violence), those who were'nt business class could not vote, nationalists were not allowed to have another identity other than British and families were being evicted to the streets to let single protestant women move in? Have we revised history so much that these social facts are now ignored - as I said earlier, 50 years of neglect and co-ercion was always going to have a breaking point!
You say you're no advocate of violence here, but then you pretty much advocate it.
No one is ignoring these social facts. They were what spawned the Civil Rights movement - that was a breaking point.
Yes and look what happened to that it was beaten into the ground - your right that was breaking point, it was the torchpaper for what followed. If civil rights had have been accepted in the nature that it was intended then I don't believe the troubles would have become a reality again as I say - reaction!
I do stand by what I said, I do not advocate violence but I do believe that if a people have no other means by which to defend themselves then they are entitled to use means that wouldn't ordinarily have been used. That said, I do think the troubles degenerated into a sectarian war which many republicans did not want, including Gerry Adams and Bobby Sands who even at a very early stage recognised that sectarian tit for tat just played into the hands of the constitutional holders. They advocated an economic war with economic targets and when I speak of violence I suppose I recognise this as a legitimate reaction to what was happening in Ireland>
This thread has taken the direction I thought it might. EG has managed to turn it into a numbers game to justify his position in defence of British Nationalism. The numbers quoted whether they are accurate or not can't justify the actions carried out by the RIR. Be it in Ireland or Afghanistan there is no moral justification for the murder and torture of those people. The support of for the RIR among Unionists is misdirected by the Butchers apron. It is not support for the brave men and women of the RIR but support for an illusion of Birish superiority. The defenders of the RIR parade are no more than brain washed fools being used and abused as justification for the RIR to defend and continue in their murder and torture. The numbers (or lack of) out supporting the protest do not take away from the act itself or its meaning.
There is no moral justification for the behaviour of the British in Ireland or in Afghanistan. The support for these actions is taken from something entirely different- British Nationalism. This thread has lost its direction due to the inability of British Nationalists to put up a moral defence. The defence is then taken from somewhere different. You can take the support of British Nationalism as justification and convince yourself it actually is justification but you are not being honest with youself. Sometimes the truth does hurt so we stop looking for it or look for ways of denying it. We are often unable to come to terms with the fact that we have been fooled and lied to and we have innocently defended those lies for such a long time we are now part of the problem. That is exactly what we have with the support shown for the RIR.
I'm tending to agree with you. The decent into ritual tribalism by some and a silly game of spot the non-existent Celtic shirt by others are surely indications this thread has come to and end. Thread locked. If anyone has a reason as to why it should be reopened send me a PM.
Thanks for opening the thread again Donagh.
So why aren't you protesting against the British Army up at Whiterock this morning?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7707742.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7707742.stm)
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 04, 2008, 10:57:48 AM
Thanks for opening the thread again Donagh.
So why aren't you protesting against the British Army up at Whiterock this morning?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7707742.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7707742.stm)
If they were engaging in another coat-trailing exercise by marching up it I would be. As they're not, I won't be.
Quote from: Donagh on November 04, 2008, 11:01:23 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 04, 2008, 10:57:48 AM
Thanks for opening the thread again Donagh.
So why aren't you protesting against the British Army up at Whiterock this morning?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7707742.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7707742.stm)
If they were engaging in another coat-trailing exercise by marching up it I would be. As they're not, I won't be.
If its a coat trailing exercise surely the sensible thing is not to step on it or is it some sort of pavlovian response with you guys ???
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 11:04:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:48:43 PM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:41:32 PM
QuoteTo give a parallel, has progress with regard to racial equality throughout the world been achieved through the violence of racial minorities?
In essence yes - look at the situation in South Africa would apartheid have been demolished without the use of physical force? We now have a situation where once a terrorist in many people's eyes (Nelson Mandella) is now regarded as a force of right for those seeking rights of their own. There are many examples of this on a racial front but also on a global front. Would Hitler have been defeated without the use of physical force reaction - no, we would have been living in a very different world today if this reaction hadn't have been utilised!
So the whites in South Africa gave in due to violence. And the whites in the US gave in because the blacks were shooting whites and bombing cities? And you think without 'this violence', there would still be apartheid in SA and the US?
I absolutely do especially with reference to South Africa. Listen - I'm no advocate of violence however to use the analogy of our canine friend - if you punch and kick a dog long enough sooner or later it will bite the arm off you and what more could you expect? I ask you, what was being done in 1967 in the North when Catholics were being shot dead in their homes (prior to IRA reactionary violence), those who were'nt business class could not vote, nationalists were not allowed to have another identity other than British and families were being evicted to the streets to let single protestant women move in? Have we revised history so much that these social facts are now ignored - as I said earlier, 50 years of neglect and co-ercion was always going to have a breaking point!
So you don't think the passage of 41 years, the formation of a modern europe etc would have produced a single jot of movement for the good.
Left to there own devices i think the civil rights movement would have got where we are now a hell of a lot quicker than any armed conflict, lets face it the conflict was used as the justification for the removal of a huge amount of civil rights.
This is a chicken and egg discussion.
Quote from: delboy on November 04, 2008, 11:37:35 AM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 11:04:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:48:43 PM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:41:32 PM
QuoteTo give a parallel, has progress with regard to racial equality throughout the world been achieved through the violence of racial minorities?
In essence yes - look at the situation in South Africa would apartheid have been demolished without the use of physical force? We now have a situation where once a terrorist in many people's eyes (Nelson Mandella) is now regarded as a force of right for those seeking rights of their own. There are many examples of this on a racial front but also on a global front. Would Hitler have been defeated without the use of physical force reaction - no, we would have been living in a very different world today if this reaction hadn't have been utilised!
So the whites in South Africa gave in due to violence. And the whites in the US gave in because the blacks were shooting whites and bombing cities? And you think without 'this violence', there would still be apartheid in SA and the US?
I absolutely do especially with reference to South Africa. Listen - I'm no advocate of violence however to use the analogy of our canine friend - if you punch and kick a dog long enough sooner or later it will bite the arm off you and what more could you expect? I ask you, what was being done in 1967 in the North when Catholics were being shot dead in their homes (prior to IRA reactionary violence), those who were'nt business class could not vote, nationalists were not allowed to have another identity other than British and families were being evicted to the streets to let single protestant women move in? Have we revised history so much that these social facts are now ignored - as I said earlier, 50 years of neglect and co-ercion was always going to have a breaking point!
So you don't think the passage of 41 years, the formation of a modern europe etc would have produced a single jot of movement for the good.
Left to there own devices i think the civil rights movement would have got where we are now a hell of a lot quicker than any armed conflict, lets face it the conflict was used as the justification for the removal of a huge amount of civil rights.
You can't make an omlette without breaking eggs
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 11:04:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:48:43 PM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:41:32 PM
QuoteTo give a parallel, has progress with regard to racial equality throughout the world been achieved through the violence of racial minorities?
In essence yes - look at the situation in South Africa would apartheid have been demolished without the use of physical force? We now have a situation where once a terrorist in many people's eyes (Nelson Mandella) is now regarded as a force of right for those seeking rights of their own. There are many examples of this on a racial front but also on a global front. Would Hitler have been defeated without the use of physical force reaction - no, we would have been living in a very different world today if this reaction hadn't have been utilised!
So the whites in South Africa gave in due to violence. And the whites in the US gave in because the blacks were shooting whites and bombing cities? And you think without 'this violence', there would still be apartheid in SA and the US?
I absolutely do especially with reference to South Africa. Listen - I'm no advocate of violence however to use the analogy of our canine friend - if you punch and kick a dog long enough sooner or later it will bite the arm off you and what more could you expect? I ask you, what was being done in 1967 in the North when Catholics were being shot dead in their homes (prior to IRA reactionary violence), those who were'nt business class could not vote, nationalists were not allowed to have another identity other than British and families were being evicted to the streets to let single protestant women move in? Have we revised history so much that these social facts are now ignored - as I said earlier, 50 years of neglect and co-ercion was always going to have a breaking point!
I completely agree with this guy
as you have seen from the start of this threat, the mindset of many like the bard of dunclug is such that amicable relations and so on are
still not forthcoming from a large majority of unionists it seems who are still trying to live in the old apartheid-like ways. So peaceful means were not going to cut it against such mindsets and aggression towards innocent nationalists. They didnt get anyone anywhere for decades. However a few decades of violence (unfortunately)seems to have (sadly) raised the stakes that caused the change and allowed nationalist people to finally become part of the same level as the opressing fraternity enjoyed. Peaceful means only received aggressive violence from the unionist/loyalist establishment.
it matters not who wore what jerseys to a protest, or how many protestants/catholics are in NI as the English Gov wants to jettison NI back to Ireland and this will happen once economic factors are right and the majority of people changes from protestant to catholic - (as I have said all along).
Nothing will stop this eventual unification....apart from the south not being able to afford it initially!
the bard has 'done a runner' now and his protests that 'it wasnt me' are a bit hard to believe given his sectarian posts previously.
how can it not matter how many prods and catholics there are if you then say we are waiting til there are more catholics than prods?
Dont forget the bard is an elected representative of the Unionist people too.
Quote from: his holiness nb on November 04, 2008, 01:34:09 PM
Dont forget the bard is an elected representative of the Unionist people too.
Looking at the other elected representatives up here it cant be a surprise.
Quote from: nifan on November 04, 2008, 01:20:10 PM
how can it not matter how many prods and catholics there are if you then say we are waiting til there are more catholics than prods?
Good question.
Come on Lynchboy ;D
Quote from: nifan on November 04, 2008, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on November 04, 2008, 01:34:09 PM
Dont forget the bard is an elected representative of the Unionist people too.
Looking at the other elected representatives up here it cant be a surprise.
Ah but wishing murder on someone for opposing a march on a website, thats shocking, even by Northern Politicians standards.
Its disgraceful yes, but again looking at politicians up here more than a few have dodgier pasts than a few shocking comments on a website!
May I ask a question of the posters that support the parade. Do you agree with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Its a simple question - answers please.
Quote from: Main Street on November 04, 2008, 01:38:13 PM
Quote from: nifan on November 04, 2008, 01:20:10 PM
how can it not matter how many prods and catholics there are if you then say we are waiting til there are more catholics than prods?
Good question.
Come on Lynchboy ;D
democracy
while the majority in NI want to remain part of the 'union' neither the English gov, the Irish gov or supporters of unification can force this to go ahead.
in short the answer is 'Democracy'.
thats not an answer to any question.
You said the number of prods/catholics doesnt matter only to say that the important thing is when there are more catholics than prods.
That doesnt make any sense.
Are the numbers important or not?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 04, 2008, 12:45:07 PM
it matters not who wore what jerseys to a protest, or how many protestants/catholics are in NI as the English Gov wants to jettison NI back to Ireland and this will happen once economic factors are right and the majority of people changes from protestant to catholic - (as I have said all along).
My take on this was that it doesn't matter right now about the numbers as the Brits have made their decision on the future. They are just waiting on an excuse to implement that decision. He then concludes this will happen when the numbers change.
For petes sake, Mr Armstrong is and was innocent in all of this. I spoke with him on Sunday in belfast and he is still very upset about everything however he has had many letters and calls from people that believe his side of the story, including some from the nationalist community.
Leave him alone chaps, he has done no wrong.
Have they found the culprit yet?
Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 03:03:48 PM
Have they found the culprit yet?
He is a well known poster on this board and the police tell us that they are continuing their investigation and expect to move on this soon.
Quote from: bignifanatic on November 04, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
For petes sake, Mr Armstrong is and was innocent in all of this. I spoke with him on Sunday in belfast and he is still very upset about everything however he has had many letters and calls from people that believe his side of the story, including some from the nationalist community.
Leave him alone chaps, he has done no wrong.
its hard to accept that really when the posts coming from him prior to that were of a similar nature.
also when you see dup clapping a bitter twisted little fool out of the assembley its hard to think that the bard is an isolated case....
yes Zapatisata - the numbers do not matter right now - as the economic climate is not right, but I was referring to the dispute over how many there are of catholics and how many there are of protestants - a spat between posters in a couple of prev posts,
its smoke and mirrors (or cloak and mirrors - (C) bertie) to take the thread away from the real point - the bard and his sectarian posts ....
Quote from: bignifanatic on November 04, 2008, 03:04:53 PM
He is a well known poster on this board and the police tell us that they are continuing their investigation and expect to move on this soon.
Load of bollocks! Armstrong posted it and we all know it.
Quote from: bignifanatic on November 04, 2008, 03:04:53 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 04, 2008, 03:03:48 PM
Have they found the culprit yet?
He is a well known poster on this board and the police tell us that they are continuing their investigation and expect to move on this soon.
I am sure all the 5 year olds on this board will believe that at least... ::)
Quote from: bignifanatic on November 04, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
For petes sake, Mr Armstrong is and was innocent in all of this. I spoke with him on Sunday in belfast and he is still very upset about everything however he has had many letters and calls from people that believe his side of the story, including some from the nationalist community.
Leave him alone chaps, he has done no wrong.
I thought his defence was he left his computer unattended in his office :o Hardly too many 'GAAboard types' employed in his office I'd dare say.
I suppose this could offer definitive proof one way or another - either we will be kept up to date with the progress of the PSNI 'investigation' or you/him are full of mad dog's sh1te.
bignifanatic, unless something concrete comes to light there is no point in telling us that he denies it - what else would he do.
Quote from: bignifanatic on November 04, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
For petes sake, Mr Armstrong is and was innocent in all of this. I spoke with him on Sunday in belfast and he is still very upset about everything however he has had many letters and calls from people that believe his side of the story, including some from the nationalist community.
Leave him alone chaps, he has done no wrong.
FFS, catch a grip of yourself
There is no proof to say he didnt post it
As for the police investigation, I wont be holding my breath ::)
BTW, this gave me a little chuckle "he has had many letters and calls from people that believe his side of the story,
including some from the nationalist community.
:D
Quote from: bignifanatic on November 04, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
For petes sake, Mr Armstrong is and was innocent in all of this. I spoke with him on Sunday in belfast and he is still very upset about everything however he has had many letters and calls from people that believe his side of the story, including some from the nationalist community.
Leave him alone chaps, he has done no wrong.
I heard that Martin McGuiness was the phantom poster. He wanted to take down a really big player on the unionist side.
Is no one going to answer my question if they are for or against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I think EG already stated his position on Iraq and Afghanistan.
Quote from: red hander on November 04, 2008, 12:18:24 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 04, 2008, 11:37:35 AM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 11:04:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2008, 10:48:43 PM
Quote from: Aoise on November 03, 2008, 10:41:32 PM
QuoteTo give a parallel, has progress with regard to racial equality throughout the world been achieved through the violence of racial minorities?
In essence yes - look at the situation in South Africa would apartheid have been demolished without the use of physical force? We now have a situation where once a terrorist in many people's eyes (Nelson Mandella) is now regarded as a force of right for those seeking rights of their own. There are many examples of this on a racial front but also on a global front. Would Hitler have been defeated without the use of physical force reaction - no, we would have been living in a very different world today if this reaction hadn't have been utilised!
So the whites in South Africa gave in due to violence. And the whites in the US gave in because the blacks were shooting whites and bombing cities? And you think without 'this violence', there would still be apartheid in SA and the US?
I absolutely do especially with reference to South Africa. Listen - I'm no advocate of violence however to use the analogy of our canine friend - if you punch and kick a dog long enough sooner or later it will bite the arm off you and what more could you expect? I ask you, what was being done in 1967 in the North when Catholics were being shot dead in their homes (prior to IRA reactionary violence), those who were'nt business class could not vote, nationalists were not allowed to have another identity other than British and families were being evicted to the streets to let single protestant women move in? Have we revised history so much that these social facts are now ignored - as I said earlier, 50 years of neglect and co-ercion was always going to have a breaking point!
So you don't think the passage of 41 years, the formation of a modern europe etc would have produced a single jot of movement for the good.
Left to there own devices i think the civil rights movement would have got where we are now a hell of a lot quicker than any armed conflict, lets face it the conflict was used as the justification for the removal of a huge amount of civil rights.
You can't make an omlette without breaking eggs
Answering something with the platitude of a sabre rattling general is a pretty poor response.
How about another one.
'Theres more than one way to skin a cat'
Who had the biggest impact, martin luther king or malcom X?
"There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for."
The words of ghandi, the man that brought about the independence of india, the dismantling of the british empire, who inspired the american civil righs movement and all by non-violent means.
The armed conflict did nothing but hurt ordinary people and hold back the enevitable.
Quote from: nifan on November 04, 2008, 03:30:55 PM
I think EG already stated his position on Iraq and Afghanistan.
The question wasn't addressed to EG alone, but to anyone who supported the march and I suppose to anyone who has a problem with a protest made against it.
I was replying to your question "is no one going to answer"
Personally I am neither a supporter of the march nor the protest particulalry
Quote from: his holiness nb on November 04, 2008, 01:44:01 PM
Quote from: nifan on November 04, 2008, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on November 04, 2008, 01:34:09 PM
Dont forget the bard is an elected representative of the Unionist people too.
Looking at the other elected representatives up here it cant be a surprise.
Ah but wishing murder on someone for opposing a march on a website, thats shocking, even by Northern Politicians standards.
Disagree. Being a "Keyboard Warrior" hardly compares with the activities of the real thing:
http://www.village.ie/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=206
And, of course, the above list by Breen excludes Paul Butler, SF MLA from Lisburn, who as an IRA member was convicted of the murder of a 50 year old Police Reservist, when he sneaked up behind him and shot him in the back of the head.
Or Martina Anderson -
"Anderson was born in Derry into a large republican family. She has six sisters and three brothers, and one brother, Paul, is currently a Sinn Féin councillor. She was arrested aged 18 leaving a furniture store in Derry, and charged with possession of a firearm and causing an explosion. Anderson was released on bail after spending two months in Armagh Women's Prison, and fled across the border to Buncrana in County Donegal.[2]
She was arrested on 24 June 1985 at a flat in Glasgow with four other IRA members including Brighton bomber Patrick Magee. On 11 June 1986 all five were convicted of conspiring to cause explosions in England, although Magee was the only person convicted in relation to the Brighton bombing.[3][4] In 1989 she married fellow IRA prisoner Paul Kavanagh at Full Sutton Prison near York. In 1994 she was transferred from Durham Prison to Maghaberry Prison in Northern Ireland, and she was released on 10 November 1998 under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement and has since renounced violence"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martina_Anderson
Or Billy Page (Derry City Councillor) - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northwest-edition/daily/councillor-conviction-move-13440922.html
Or Conor Murphy MLA -
"According to An Phoblacht, Murphy first became involved with the Irish Republican Army (IRA) during the 1981 hunger strikes.[1] In 1982 he was sentenced to five years in prison for IRA membership and possession of explosives."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conor_Murphy
Or Caral Ni Chuilin MLA -
"The north Belfast councillor was jailed for nine years in the 1980s for her part in a foiled Provo bomb plot to wipe out RUC officers. She served four years of her sentence for a string of terrorist offences, including possession of explosives with intent and membership of the IRA"http://saoirse32.blogsome.com/2006/05/21/alliance-in-sinn-fein-or-unionist-lord-mayor-dilemma/
Or Eamon Mac Con Midhe (Councillor) -
"Mac Con Midhe himself served a jail term for firearms possession in May 1976, after he was arrested during an incident in which shots were fired at a police car in the grounds of Downe Hospital in Downpatrick. At the time he was known as Eamon McConvey. Both he and O'Donnell served their jail terms in the Provisional IRA wings of the Maze Prison."http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/conviction-shows-sf-is-still-linked-to-ira-crime-despite-new-bid-for-power-131919.html
Or Dickie O'Donnell (Full-Time SF Election Agent) -
"O'Donnell was sentenced to 12 years in March 1982, after being convicted for his part in an attempted IRA bombing in January 1981. He was the driver of a car which was stopped by an RUC patrol which found two beer kegs filled with explosives. The bomb was being taken from a store in Killough, Co Down, for a bombing attack in Belfast. In recent years he has been a full-time and prominent Sinn Fein election worker in the South Down constituency. According to local people, it is well known that he remained a member of the IRA" Or Jennifer McCann MLA -
"McCann was born in the Twinbrook area of Belfast, and was friends with Bobby Sands and his sister Bernadette. She joined the republican movement as a schoolgirl, becoming a member of Cumann na mBan then joining the Provisional Irish Republican Army aged 17. McCann was arrested aged 20, after shooting a Royal Ulster Constabulary police officer, and subsequently sentenced to 20 years imprisonment"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_McCann
Or Fra McCann MLA - "
Fra McCann is an Irish politician. McCann became active in the Irish republican movement and during the 1970s was jailed on a number of occasions. In 1987, he was elected to Belfast City Council, representing Sinn Féin. McCann was elected to the Northern Ireland Assembly representing West Belfast in 2003 and again in 2007.[1] He was imprisoned during the 1970s for firearms offences. While being held in H-Block 3 of the Maze, McCann befriended Kieran Nugent and participated in the blanket protest.[2][3] In June 2006 McCann was charged with assault and disorderly behaviour following an incident in west Belfast. The incident occurred as the PSNI were attempting to arrest a teenager for attempted robbery. However McCann alleged heavy handedness and stated "I tried to put myself between one of the officers and the girl when the police officer radioed for assistance. McCann was released on bail"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fra_McCann
Oliver McMullan (Mourne District Councillor) - Sept.2002 Agreed to pay damages on the steps of the Court after being served with a writ for Assault by MDC Tourism Officer, Kevin McGarry (B.Telegraph, 22/04/04)
Barry McElduff MLA - Active in the campaign to secure a United Ireland by illegally painting Pillar Boxes green...
The above list, whilst by no means exhaustive, was compiled by simply going through the list of Stormont Candidates (only) on SF's own website and Googling them. I daresay there are politicians from other parties with other "indiscretions" on their CV's - other posters are welcome to do their bit to shine a light on the activities of our esteemed political representatives.
did these folks above hack into the bard of dunclugs account to post all those 'sectarian posts' then ?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 02:30:16 PM
May I ask a question of the posters that support the parade. Do you agree with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Its a simple question - answers please.
I agree with the UN-authorised war in Afghanistan, I disagree with the non-UN authorised war in Baghdad. And for the record, I hold no grudge against the soldiers who are doing their duty in Iraq as they pledged to do when they signed up. The real villains who should be held accountable are Bush and Blair.
EG, will you please stay on topic. You've been asked before.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 02:30:16 PM
May I ask a question of the posters that support the parade. Do you agree with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Its a simple question - answers please.
I agree with the UN-authorised war in Afghanistan, I disagree with the non-UN authorised war in Baghdad. And for the record, I hold no grudge against the soldiers who are doing their duty in Iraq as they pledged to do when they signed up. The real villains who should be held accountable are Bush and Blair.
So have you a problem if people like you who are against a war, go out on the streets and peacefully protest against it? For the record, I am against both wars as they are unjust. I also think there is nothing wrong with a protest in these circumstances as I believe the celebrating of returning soldiers from a foreign war that has been barbaric is wrong. I don't believe my feelings are much different to many in your own unionist community.
Quote from: Donagh on November 04, 2008, 04:00:09 PM
EG, will you please stay on topic. You've been asked before.
In fairness Donagh I believe EG was responding to me and I also believe that it was relevant to the topic.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 04, 2008, 04:00:09 PM
EG, will you please stay on topic. You've been asked before.
In fairness Donagh I believe EG was responding to me and I also believe that it was relevant to the topic.
I don't see how it's relevant. As far as I can see it's spam. It he wants to make a 'whatabout' point in relation to SF all he has to do is state it without bombarding the Board with this rubbish at every opportunity.
Donagh is right it is spam and opportunistic. You should lock this thread again Donagh as the topic is now about who did what as the original argument seems to have run it's course or is being avoided.
It might let the Bard off the hook too easily though?
Quote from: Donagh on November 04, 2008, 04:00:09 PM
EG, will you please stay on topic. You've been asked before.
You opened a thread about the Bard of Dunclug.
Another poster offered the following opinion -
"Ah but wishing murder on someone for opposing a march on a website, thats shocking, even by Northern Politicians standards"I disagreed, giving specific, referenced examples of why I thought so. (Post #975, above, in case anyone has missed it)
That all seems pretty much standard Discussion Board protocol to me. But if you feel I'm out of order, why don't you report it to the Mods, and let them sort it out? After all, surely you would rather have any offending posts deleted, rather than have to lock the thread again, with the offending posts still there for all to read? ;)
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 04:25:59 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 04, 2008, 04:00:09 PM
EG, will you please stay on topic. You've been asked before.
You opened a thread about the Bard of Dunclug.
Another poster offered the following opinion - "Ah but wishing murder on someone for opposing a march on a website, thats shocking, even by Northern Politicians standards"
I disagreed, giving specific, referenced examples of why I thought so. (Post #975, above, in case anyone has missed it)
That all seems pretty much standard Discussion Board protocol to me. But if you feel I'm out of order, why don't you report it to the Mods, and let them sort it out? After all, surely you would rather have any offending posts deleted, rather than have to lock the thread again, with the offending posts still there for all to read? ;)
If your field of comparison is reduced to - someone who would wish it within the last month - could you come up with eveidence other than that of the Bard?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 04:03:39 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 02:30:16 PM
May I ask a question of the posters that support the parade. Do you agree with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Its a simple question - answers please.
I agree with the UN-authorised war in Afghanistan, I disagree with the non-UN authorised war in Baghdad. And for the record, I hold no grudge against the soldiers who are doing their duty in Iraq as they pledged to do when they signed up. The real villains who should be held accountable are Bush and Blair.
So have you a problem if people like you who are against a war, go out on the streets and peacefully protest against it? For the record, I am against both wars as they are unjust. I also think there is nothing wrong with a protest in these circumstances as I believe the celebrating of returning soldiers from a foreign war that has been barbaric is wrong. I don't believe my feelings are much different to many in your own unionist community.
I have no problem with people protesting against either Iraq or Afghanistan. I am not impressed by people whose
real motives may be simple anti-Brit prejudice, or a desire to prove their Republican credentials (SF) in a "Let's see who can p1ss highest up the wall" competition against other organisations (eirige), under the guise of anti-War protests. But I don't suppose there's anything one may reasonably do about that.
I am amused, as it happens, by the fact that the SF protest actually stirred many thousands more to join the Welcome Home than would otherwise be the case, but regret that this also encouraged a small minority (several hundreds?) of lowlife "Loyalists" [sic] also to crawl out from under their stone and disgrace the Parade. But again, there's not much anyone can easily do about them, either.
Anyhow, I know of more than one person who joined the Welcome Home parade, who had previously joined anti-Iraq demonstrations in NI. I do not see any contradiction in that.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 04, 2008, 04:28:34 PM
If your field of comparison is reduced to - someone who would wish it within the last month - could you come up with eveidence other than that of the Bard?
I have no idea what you mean by that.
its this kind of forked tonguedness that the bard seems guilty of indulging in....
I mean , he may have one escape card that someone used his account to post that last highly offensive sectarian remark, but the same excuse cannot be given for the previous incidents of lesser sectarian type posts on here
what would be the defence here, the and all have gone very quiet on this front
are these exclamations that the psni are 'very close' to catching the culprit the usual rubbish of sidestepping the issue and as per usual , nothing is being done ....and I mean here that nothing is being done to prove the bard guilty - because we know nothing is being done to catch a non-existant 'culprit' !
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 04:38:00 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 04, 2008, 04:28:34 PM
If your field of comparison is reduced to - someone who would wish it within the last month - could you come up with eveidence other than that of the Bard?
I have no idea what you mean by that.
All those you mentioned have renounced violence since atleast 10 years ago. And none have called for vilolence as elected reps. Can you make comparisons of elected reps advoctaing violence in the past 10 years other than that of the Bard?
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 04:25:59 PM
You opened a thread about the Bard of Dunclug.
Another poster offered the following opinion - "Ah but wishing murder on someone for opposing a march on a website, thats shocking, even by Northern Politicians standards"
I disagreed, giving specific, referenced examples of why I thought so. (Post #975, above, in case anyone has missed it)
That all seems pretty much standard Discussion Board protocol to me. But if you feel I'm out of order, why don't you report it to the Mods, and let them sort it out? After all, surely you would rather have any offending posts deleted, rather than have to lock the thread again, with the offending posts still there for all to read? ;)
EG, it's irrelevant spam and there's no point there you couldn't say in five or six words. Apart from what 5Times might like to say I'm no tout, so I would prefer to sort out any such issues between ourselves without bothering the mods.
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 04:36:03 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 04:03:39 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 02:30:16 PM
May I ask a question of the posters that support the parade. Do you agree with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Its a simple question - answers please.
I agree with the UN-authorised war in Afghanistan, I disagree with the non-UN authorised war in Baghdad. And for the record, I hold no grudge against the soldiers who are doing their duty in Iraq as they pledged to do when they signed up. The real villains who should be held accountable are Bush and Blair.
So have you a problem if people like you who are against a war, go out on the streets and peacefully protest against it? For the record, I am against both wars as they are unjust. I also think there is nothing wrong with a protest in these circumstances as I believe the celebrating of returning soldiers from a foreign war that has been barbaric is wrong. I don't believe my feelings are much different to many in your own unionist community.
I have no problem with people protesting against either Iraq or Afghanistan. I am not impressed by people whose real motives may be simple anti-Brit prejudice, or a desire to prove their Republican credentials (SF) in a "Let's see who can p1ss highest up the wall" competition against other organisations (eirige), under the guise of anti-War protests. But I don't suppose there's anything one may reasonably do about that.
I am amused, as it happens, by the fact that the SF protest actually stirred many thousands more to join the Welcome Home than would otherwise be the case, but regret that this also encouraged a small minority (several hundreds?) of lowlife "Loyalists" [sic] also to crawl out from under their stone and disgrace the Parade. But again, there's not much anyone can easily do about them, either.
Anyhow, I know of more than one person who joined the Welcome Home parade, who had previously joined anti-Iraq demonstrations in NI. I do not see any contradiction in that.
And isn't also possible that a Sinn Fein member might protest, not because their "motives may be simple anti-Brit prejudice, or a desire to prove their Republican credentials" but because they are against the war in Iraq or Afghanistan as well as previous british army behaviour in the north. I don't see anything wrong with that. The best solution to this parade would have been a welcome home "function" in a hall somewhere, behind closed doors with family and friends, there was no need to flaunt it about the place - especially considering the horrendous death tolls in the countries that these soldiers have just left. I believe that this parade was manipulated by some unionist elements that wanted to start trouble, looking for a violent reaction and some point scoring over republicans. If that is not the case why are similar parades not happening in cities in Britain?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 04:52:17 PM
And isn't also possible that a Sinn Fein member might protest, not because their "motives may be simple anti-Brit prejudice, or a desire to prove their Republican credentials" but because they are against the war in Iraq or Afghanistan as well as previous british army behaviour in the north. I don't see anything wrong with that. The best solution to this parade would have been a welcome home "function" in a hall somewhere, behind closed doors with family and friends, there was no need to flaunt it about the place - especially considering the horrendous death tolls in the countries that these soldiers have just left. I believe that this parade was manipulated by some unionist elements that wanted to start trouble, looking for a violent reaction and some point scoring over republicans. If that is not the case why are similar parades not happening in cities in Britain?
It was a low down dirty trick that Republicans did not fall for. They were counting on trouble from protesters in order to claim that there is no confidence in the community for devolved policing. This has back fired immensely and rather than show there is no confidence it has only strengthend the case (as if it needed futher strengthening) that there is enough confidence to devolve policing. The DUP are holding up the Assembly and are holding the people of the north to ransom. There bluff has been called.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 04, 2008, 04:43:17 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 04:38:00 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 04, 2008, 04:28:34 PM
If your field of comparison is reduced to - someone who would wish it within the last month - could you come up with eveidence other than that of the Bard?
I have no idea what you mean by that.
All those you mentioned have renounced violence since atleast 10 years ago. And none have called for vilolence as elected reps. Can you make comparisons of elected reps advoctaing violence in the past 10 years other than that of the Bard?
Ah, so that's all right, then. Crimes such as murder, or their victims, don't really count, seeing as their assailants have since renounced violence, then.
And that renunciation, of course, has nothing whatever to do with the fact that as a criminal offence, calling for violence would be grounds for revocation of early release from prison and disbarment from standing as a candidate in elections, or serving on public bodies such as Policing Boards?
Gerry Adams was never in the IRA and I was born on 03 November 2008...
Dodge
Quote from: Donagh on November 04, 2008, 04:45:05 PM
EG, it's irrelevant spam and there's no point there you couldn't say in five or six words. Apart from what 5Times might like to say I'm no tout, so I would prefer to sort out any such issues between ourselves without bothering the mods.
It's not "irrelevant", nor is it "spam", since it was in direct response to a point made by another poster about the Bard of Dunclug - one of the subjects of this thread.
As for "five or six words", some of those cited have a charge sheet as long as your arm. If I had just said they "Are a bunch of criminals" (5 words), you'd have criticised me for making it up.
As for "touting", I'm pleased that you and i are both opposed to such a practice, not least because I now know you weren't the pathetic little creep who sneaked on me to the Mods last time, over something pretty innocuous.
Anyhow, you've asked me directly not to post such comments, so I'll give you a direct answer: I'll post what I like! ::)
EG, I've asked you not to spam the Board with irrelevant nonsense. If you can't behave like an adult without resorting to your tribal rants, I'll lock the thread and you can go piss over someone else's with your juvenile techniques.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 04:52:17 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 04:36:03 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 04:03:39 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 04, 2008, 02:30:16 PM
May I ask a question of the posters that support the parade. Do you agree with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Its a simple question - answers please.
I agree with the UN-authorised war in Afghanistan, I disagree with the non-UN authorised war in Baghdad. And for the record, I hold no grudge against the soldiers who are doing their duty in Iraq as they pledged to do when they signed up. The real villains who should be held accountable are Bush and Blair.
So have you a problem if people like you who are against a war, go out on the streets and peacefully protest against it? For the record, I am against both wars as they are unjust. I also think there is nothing wrong with a protest in these circumstances as I believe the celebrating of returning soldiers from a foreign war that has been barbaric is wrong. I don't believe my feelings are much different to many in your own unionist community.
I have no problem with people protesting against either Iraq or Afghanistan. I am not impressed by people whose real motives may be simple anti-Brit prejudice, or a desire to prove their Republican credentials (SF) in a "Let's see who can p1ss highest up the wall" competition against other organisations (eirige), under the guise of anti-War protests. But I don't suppose there's anything one may reasonably do about that.
I am amused, as it happens, by the fact that the SF protest actually stirred many thousands more to join the Welcome Home than would otherwise be the case, but regret that this also encouraged a small minority (several hundreds?) of lowlife "Loyalists" [sic] also to crawl out from under their stone and disgrace the Parade. But again, there's not much anyone can easily do about them, either.
Anyhow, I know of more than one person who joined the Welcome Home parade, who had previously joined anti-Iraq demonstrations in NI. I do not see any contradiction in that.
And isn't also possible that a Sinn Fein member might protest, not because their "motives may be simple anti-Brit prejudice, or a desire to prove their Republican credentials" but because they are against the war in Iraq or Afghanistan as well as previous british army behaviour in the north. I don't see anything wrong with that. The best solution to this parade would have been a welcome home "function" in a hall somewhere, behind closed doors with family and friends, there was no need to flaunt it about the place - especially considering the horrendous death tolls in the countries that these soldiers have just left. I believe that this parade was manipulated by some unionist elements that wanted to start trouble, looking for a violent reaction and some point scoring over republicans. If that is not the case why are similar parades not happening in cities in Britain?
Nonsense.
Such Parades are happening in towns and cities all over Britain.
Why, this isn't even the first Welcome parade organised for the RIR:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fAaRdosqwXo&eurl=http://www.hatchetsandhammers.co.uk/hnh/showthread.php?t=3609&page=5
Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town
that same week:
http://www.irishnews.com/articles/540/5860/2008/10/30/601531_361839542962FirstRIR.html
Quote from: Donagh on November 04, 2008, 05:15:01 PM
EG, I've asked you not to spam the Board with irrelevant nonsense. If you can't behave like an adult without resorting to your tribal rants, I'll lock the thread and you can go piss over someone else's with your juvenile techniques.
1. It's not your Board;
2. You've asked and I've said "No";
3. Whatever else, there is nothing "juvenile" about what I'm posting, or "tribal";
4. Lock the thread if you like - posts which appear to be upsetting you, such as those which outline the various dastardly crimes committed by your heroes in Connolly House, will still remain on the record, for all to see and you will be exposed as someone who doesn't mind dishing the dirt out on others, but cannot take it when some of it gets returned to you...
point four makes absolutely no sense whatsoever apart from idiotic subjectiveness from the writer
talk about the first things that come to mind etc etc etc
intentionally move the goalposts from the 'bard and his sectarianism' to the usual tactic of whinging about 'SF, IRA , I can post what I like' etc etc
its toys out of the pram time in little girlie fashion for evil loyalist!
anything but address the issue of what the bard of dunclug did...
please can we have some opinion on what he did and what measures should be taken against him as this person is meant to hold public office (and in public office he 'represents' more than the orange order)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 04, 2008, 05:45:50 PM
anything but address the issue of what the bard of dunclug did...
OK. If the Bard is who he appears to be and he knowingly posted those comments, then I have no problem condemning him.
However, when His Holiness attempted to put the offending comments into perspective (i.e. serious even by the standards of NI elected representatives), I pointed out they were nothing like so serious as e.g. actual murder, as committed by other NI elected representatives.
Which of us do
you think has got it right? His Holiness (the person who originally raised the idea), or me (the person who responded to him)?
It's gas when the libertarian veneer slips and the hateful wee cxnt emerges
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 04, 2008, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Donagh on November 04, 2008, 05:15:01 PM
EG, I've asked you not to spam the Board with irrelevant nonsense. If you can't behave like an adult without resorting to your tribal rants, I'll lock the thread and you can go piss over someone else's with your juvenile techniques.
1. It's not your Board;
2. You've asked and I've said "No";
3. Whatever else, there is nothing "juvenile" about what I'm posting, or "tribal";
4. Lock the thread if you like - posts which appear to be upsetting you, such as those which outline the various dastardly crimes committed by your heroes in Connolly House, will still remain on the record, for all to see and you will be exposed as someone who doesn't mind dishing the dirt out on others, but cannot take it when some of it gets returned to you...
That you actually think people read half the rubbish you post on here is laughable. They come across as the ramblings of an adolescent being let loose on Google for the first time - the scattergun approach lacking in intelligence, reflection or clarity of thought. Your posts weren't even addressed to me so you're loosing the run of yourself there. I am simply attempting to keep a long thread on track by giving a little bit of friendly advice. That you choosen not to heed that advice while prematurely ejaculating your inane but angry venom over the keyboard at every new post, while conveniently forgetting those were you have been challenged, merely shows you for the sad case you are. Your posts are adding nothing to this thread or to Gaaboard, so it's time for a little timeout on this thread. If you want to continue to be a keybaord warrior for bigotry do it on another thread, this one's closed for now...
Hey, this thread is unlocked again :D ;)
Quote from: Zapatista on November 06, 2008, 08:22:14 AM
Hey, this thread is unlocked again :D ;)
Yes, that's my fault. I asked for it to be unlocked because I heard (from a usually relaible source) that at the army parade in Ballymena at the weekend someone attending the parade was spotted wearing a Neill Armstrong mask and carrying a placard bearing the legend "Youse should of killed more of them uppity Fenians when youse had the chance so youse should of". Can anyone confirm this rumour?
Yes, I can conform that this is now a romour.
'Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town that same week:'
Belfast isn't in Britain, thesaurus boy
Quote from: red hander on November 06, 2008, 01:01:32 PM
'Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town that same week:'
Belfast isn't in Britain, thesaurus boy
Thanks for the geography lesson.
It's a British City though.
I see Willie Frazer was venting his twisted spleen in yesterday's Irish News, I am sure there will be a few replies tomorrow and Saturday. He was quick to point out the past activities of some of the marshalls employed at the protest, conveniently Willie forgot to mention the glorious pasts and indeed current misdemeanours of the UDA brigadiers who enjoyed prominent positions on the front line with loyal UDR/RIR supporters on Sunday.
Doogie, hardly unexpected from Frazer. He sees only one side of any story.
From Reuters... http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4A44EW20081105
KABUL (Reuters) - Afghan President Hamid Karzai said on Wednesday an air strike by coalition forces earlier this week killed some 40 civilians and wounded about 28 in Kandahar province.
Karzai called on U.S. President-elect Barack Obama to make it his priority to stop the killing of civilians.
Scores of Afghans have been killed in U.S. air strikes this year, leading to resentment against the presence of foreign troops and a rift between Karzai and his Western backers.
The air strike took place on Monday in the Shah Wali Kot district in the southern Taliban heartland of Kandahar province.
"By bombing Afghanistan, the war against terrorism cannot be won," Karzai told a news conference.
Several villagers who had taken a group of wounded to the hospital in Kandahar city said the air strike hit a wedding party.
The U.S. military said it was checking reports.
"The coalition and Afghan authorities are investigating reports of non-combatant casualties in the village of Wech Baghtu," said U.S. forces spokesman Commander Jeff Bender.
"If innocent people were killed in this operation, we apologize and express our condolences to the families and the people of Afghanistan," he said in a statement.
U.S.-AFGHAN TENSION
Reuters television pictures from the village of Wech Baghtu showed a burned car and half a dozen men shoveling white, dusty rubble from an area surrounded by a wall. The villagers showed Reuters white material soaked in blood.
The bride was among the wounded brought to the main hospital in Kandahar city, her relative Juma Khan said. The air strike happened during a clash between foreign troops and Taliban insurgents in Shah Wali Kot district, Khan said.
A Reuters witness saw three children with shrapnel wounds and seven wounded women in the hospital.
Karzai requested Obama make it his priority to end civilian casualties.
"The main problem, which has become a matter of tension (with the United States), is civilian casualties," Karzai said. "Civilian casualties should completely stop. The war in the villages of Afghanistan will never give fruit."
Some 4,000 people, around a third of them civilians, have been killed this year in fighting with the Taliban, who have expanded the scope and scale of their insurgency trying to oust Karzai's Western-backed government and eject foreign forces.
Lets have another parade for these heroes when they come home.
Yep, real heroes indeed ... good job the brave chaps of RAF didn't flyover on sunday, they'd have probably dropped bombs on the RVH or a couple of scout huts in south Belfast
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 06, 2008, 01:10:09 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 06, 2008, 01:01:32 PM
'Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town that same week:'
Belfast isn't in Britain, thesaurus boy
Thanks for the geography lesson.
It's a British City though.
No it's not ya eejit - look at the map - it's in Ireland not in Britain( that's the big Island to the east of us) ;)
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 06, 2008, 01:10:09 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 06, 2008, 01:01:32 PM
'Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town that same week:'
Belfast isn't in Britain, thesaurus boy
Thanks for the geography lesson.
It's a British City though.
Only fools think that a part of one island (Ireland, and
Irish) can be classified as being of a different island (Britain, and
British), but being the unmercifully charitable being that I am, my glowing light of optimism shines eternally for more horrifically benighted individuals, and such is the glorious bounty of my desire to enlighten all, there are no lengths to which I will not reach to unshackle even the most intransigent of shuttered minds.
Your time will come ;)
The empire used to be this size O but now its only this size o
Poor owc :(
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 06, 2008, 02:37:21 PM
From Reuters... http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4A44EW20081105
KABUL (Reuters) - Afghan President Hamid Karzai said on Wednesday an air strike by coalition forces earlier this week killed some 40 civilians and wounded about 28 in Kandahar province.
Karzai called on U.S. President-elect Barack Obama to make it his priority to stop the killing of civilians.
Scores of Afghans have been killed in U.S. air strikes this year, leading to resentment against the presence of foreign troops and a rift between Karzai and his Western backers.
The air strike took place on Monday in the Shah Wali Kot district in the southern Taliban heartland of Kandahar province.
"By bombing Afghanistan, the war against terrorism cannot be won," Karzai told a news conference.
Several villagers who had taken a group of wounded to the hospital in Kandahar city said the air strike hit a wedding party.
The U.S. military said it was checking reports.
"The coalition and Afghan authorities are investigating reports of non-combatant casualties in the village of Wech Baghtu," said U.S. forces spokesman Commander Jeff Bender.
"If innocent people were killed in this operation, we apologize and express our condolences to the families and the people of Afghanistan," he said in a statement.
U.S.-AFGHAN TENSION
Reuters television pictures from the village of Wech Baghtu showed a burned car and half a dozen men shoveling white, dusty rubble from an area surrounded by a wall. The villagers showed Reuters white material soaked in blood.
The bride was among the wounded brought to the main hospital in Kandahar city, her relative Juma Khan said. The air strike happened during a clash between foreign troops and Taliban insurgents in Shah Wali Kot district, Khan said.
A Reuters witness saw three children with shrapnel wounds and seven wounded women in the hospital.
Karzai requested Obama make it his priority to end civilian casualties.
"The main problem, which has become a matter of tension (with the United States), is civilian casualties," Karzai said. "Civilian casualties should completely stop. The war in the villages of Afghanistan will never give fruit."
Some 4,000 people, around a third of them civilians, have been killed this year in fighting with the Taliban, who have expanded the scope and scale of their insurgency trying to oust Karzai's Western-backed government and eject foreign forces.
Lets have another parade for these heroes when they come home.
Could you imagine the Taliban blowing up a wedding party in London or New York and then heading back to Afghanistan for a homecoming parade. There would be some outrage.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 06, 2008, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 06, 2008, 01:10:09 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 06, 2008, 01:01:32 PM
'Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town that same week:'
Belfast isn't in Britain, thesaurus boy
Thanks for the geography lesson.
It's a British City though.
Only fools think that a part of one island (Ireland, and Irish) can be classified as being of a different island (Britain, and British), but being the unmercifully charitable being that I am, my glowing light of optimism shines eternally for more horrifically benighted individuals, and such is the glorious bounty of my desire to enlighten all, there are no lengths to which I will not reach to unshackle even the most intransigent of shuttered minds.
Your time will come ;)
There is about a grain of sand of truth in that, the rest of it... oh just shut up
Quote from: reddgnhand on November 06, 2008, 09:14:31 PM
Could you imagine the Taliban blowing up a wedding party in London or New York and then heading back to Afghanistan for a homecoming parade. There would be some outrage.
At least they'd be going back to their own country to march, prance, triumphalise, and fart about, not to a neighbouring country that they unerringly use for cannon-fodder and trench digging, whenever the need arises, for the odd little squalid dirty invasion or 'war'. And rewarded with divisive 'homecoming' parades. As usual, when there's a danger of too much unity of purpose and cohesion in Ireland, Britannia exercises her un-prerogative to divide, and thereby rule. Trouble is, it's fallen for, every time.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 06, 2008, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 06, 2008, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 06, 2008, 01:10:09 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 06, 2008, 01:01:32 PM
'Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town that same week:'
Belfast isn't in Britain, thesaurus boy
Thanks for the geography lesson.
It's a British City though.
Only fools think that a part of one island (Ireland, and Irish) can be classified as being of a different island (Britain, and British), but being the unmercifully charitable being that I am, my glowing light of optimism shines eternally for more horrifically benighted individuals, and such is the glorious bounty of my desire to enlighten all, there are no lengths to which I will not reach to unshackle even the most intransigent of shuttered minds.
Your time will come ;)
There is about a grain of sand of truth in that, the rest of it... oh just shut up
You again whacky, the conspiracy theorist par paranoia. I'm so sorry I annoy you so much, truly, I am. ;D
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 06, 2008, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 06, 2008, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 06, 2008, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 06, 2008, 01:10:09 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 06, 2008, 01:01:32 PM
'Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town that same week:'
Belfast isn't in Britain, thesaurus boy
Thanks for the geography lesson.
It's a British City though.
Only fools think that a part of one island (Ireland, and Irish) can be classified as being of a different island (Britain, and British), but being the unmercifully charitable being that I am, my glowing light of optimism shines eternally for more horrifically benighted individuals, and such is the glorious bounty of my desire to enlighten all, there are no lengths to which I will not reach to unshackle even the most intransigent of shuttered minds.
Your time will come ;)
There is about a grain of sand of truth in that, the rest of it... oh just shut up
You again whacky, the conspiracy theorist par paranoia. I'm so sorry I annoy you so much, truly, I am. ;D
Well whenever I see posts that indicate that the poster really has a mental problem, I tend to stay away from the thread(s) as I like it here. However, sometimes, I just can't help myself and I give in to the temptation and reply. Whenever I reply, my initial thoughts are usually in tune with my perception of the poster. Thus is the case again with you :)
Only a fool can say that Northern Ireland as a political entity is not British, yet you managed that in the above post. Congratulations! ::)
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 06, 2008, 09:51:15 PM
Well whenever I see posts that indicate that the poster really has a mental problem, I tend to stay away from the thread(s) as I like it here. However, sometimes, I just can't help myself and I give in to the temptation and reply. Whenever I reply, my initial thoughts are usually in tune with my perception of the poster. Thus is the case again with you :)
Only a fool can say that Northern Ireland as a political entity is not British, yet you managed that in the above post. Congratulations! ::)
I take it you've forgotten to take your tablets today?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 06, 2008, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 06, 2008, 01:10:09 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 06, 2008, 01:01:32 PM
'Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town that same week:'
Belfast isn't in Britain, thesaurus boy
Thanks for the geography lesson.
It's a British City though.
Only fools think that a part of one island (Ireland, and Irish) can be classified as being of a different island (Britain, and British),
Not sure where you picked up that I said that one part of the island of Ireland was part of a different island?
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 06, 2008, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 06, 2008, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 06, 2008, 01:10:09 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 06, 2008, 01:01:32 PM
'Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town that same week:'
Belfast isn't in Britain, thesaurus boy
Thanks for the geography lesson.
It's a British City though.
Only fools think that a part of one island (Ireland, and Irish) can be classified as being of a different island (Britain, and British),
Not sure where you picked up that I said that one part of the island of Ireland was part of a different island?
The Irish Sea divides one from the other, not me. Britons are from Britain, no one from anywhere else.
I think you need serious help
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 06, 2008, 10:09:30 PM
I think you need serious help
The British Army needs you... NOW!
You are on another planet, probably one inhabited by leprechauns
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 06, 2008, 10:13:17 PM
You are on another planet, probably one inhabited by leprechauns
That's right whacky, you're just so right.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 06, 2008, 10:16:43 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 06, 2008, 10:13:17 PM
You are on another planet, probably one inhabited by leprechauns
That's right whacky, you're just so right.
Jee-zus Christ! You need serious help.
Be careful FoS. He might report you. Poor HS went that way for engaging with this fellow.
Thanks Shane, I'd better not say too much about that incredibly feeble and fawningly fetid fag of a yoke again then.
Ah sure what a bout an old song to lighten the mood. Everyone now, come on Chris ;D
The Sea Around Us
They say that the lakes of Killarney are fair
No stream like the Liffey could ever compare
If it's water you want you'll find nothing more rare
Than the stuff they make down by the ocean
The sea, oh the sea is the gradh geal mo croide
Long may it stay between Britain and me
It's a sure guarantee that some hour we'll be free
Oh thank God we're surrounded by water
Tom Moore made his waters made fame and renown
A great lover of anything dressed in a crown
In brandy the bandy old Saxon he'd drown
But throw ne'er a one into the ocean
The sea, oh the sea is the gradh geal mo croide
Long may it stay between Britain and me
It's a sure guarantee that some hour we'll be free
Oh thank God we're surrounded by wate
The Scots have their whisky, the Welsh have their speech
And their poets are paid about tenpence a week
Provided no hard words on Britain they speak
Oh Lord! What a price for devotion
The sea, oh the sea is the gradh geal mo croide
Long may it stay between Britain and me
It's a sure guarantee that some hour we'll be free
Oh thank God we're surrounded by wate
The Danes came to Ireland with nothing to do
But dream of the plundered old Irish they slew
Yeh will in your Viking, said Brian Boru
And he threw them back into the ocean
The sea, oh the sea is the gradh geal mo croide
Long may it stay between Britain and me
It's a sure guarantee that some hour we'll be free
Oh thank God we're surrounded by water
Two foreign old monarchs in battle did join
Each wanting each head on the back of a coin
If the Irish had sense they'd drowned both in the Boyne
And partition throw into the ocean
The sea, oh the sea is the gradh geal mo croide
Long may it stay between Britain and me
It's a sure guarantee that some hour we'll be free
Oh thank God we're surrounded by water
That oul guff would bring a tear to the eye.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 06, 2008, 10:07:55 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 06, 2008, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 06, 2008, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on November 06, 2008, 01:10:09 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 06, 2008, 01:01:32 PM
'Indeed, Belfast wasn't even the first Welcome Home Parade organised for the RIR in a British town that same week:'
Belfast isn't in Britain, thesaurus boy
Thanks for the geography lesson.
It's a British City though.
Only fools think that a part of one island (Ireland, and Irish) can be classified as being of a different island (Britain, and British),
Not sure where you picked up that I said that one part of the island of Ireland was part of a different island?
The Irish Sea divides one from the other, not me. Britons are from Britain, no one from anywhere else.
Great Britan is the island of England, Scotland and Wales, but anywhere in the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is 'officially' British.
Hence whilst NI isn't in Great Britain, it is still officially 'British', consistent with the people of NI being able to hold a 'British' passport and be 'British' citizens, if they so wish.
Someone told me that there were more children injured with fireworks this week, than RIRers injured during their last tour of duty to Afghanistan. Could this be true?
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 07, 2008, 01:10:53 PM
Great Britan is the island of England, Scotland and Wales, but anywhere in the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is 'officially' British.
Hence whilst NI isn't in Great Britain, it is still officially 'British', consistent with the people of NI being able to hold a 'British' passport and be 'British' citizens, if they so wish.
Where did you get that from?
Being an automatic British National does not make it officially British.
The entitlement to British Citizenry is because of NI being a part of the UK.
For it to be a British city, Belfast would have to be in Britain, just like Cardiff
Belfast is a city in that part of ireland which is in the UK
Well my rationale was that Great Britain and Britain aren't necessarily the same thing. The British Empire wasn't confined to GB and those countries and cities within the Empire were regarded as 'British', were they not?
The 'Great' in GB is a French assignation AFAIK, to distinguish it from Brittany the French called Britain Grande Bretagne.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 07, 2008, 01:59:19 PM
Well my rationale was that Great Britain and Britain aren't necessarily the same thing. The British Empire wasn't confined to GB and those countries and cities within the Empire were regarded as 'British', were they not?
I am not too hot on the history of British Empire, "Calcutta was a British city" somehow doesn't ring any bells.
its another tiny issue that people are not going to agree on. Why worry about it?
The country is called "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". It was called "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" when all of Ireland was part of it. To call it "Britain" is a lazy contraction that has been prevalent for centuries, as far as I can gather, and was/is typically dismissive and insulting to Ireland then and Northern Ireland now. It always surprises me that Northern unionists are happy to acquiesce in this casual insult to their identity and call themselves "British" when clearly that appellation is a nonsense in their case.
You don't hear New Yorkers referring to the USA as "Washington" because that's the seat of power or Japanese people calling their country "Honshu" because that's the name of the largest of the islands that make up the political entity of Japan.
OK "UKish" is a bit cumbersome, but certainly there's no such countrtry as Britain. That's the name of one of the constituents of the UK. Therefore to call Belfast a British city is a nonsense.
Next sermon: on the arrogance of the USA in styling itself "America" in blithe dismissal of the remaining constituent entities of that continent.
(http://www.virginmedia.com/images/tony-the-tiger---frosties.jpg)
They're great!!
Is ireland and the Uk mainland not known collectively as the British isles ??? I suppose you could then argue that dublin and cork were british cities ;)
You could, but you wouldn't expect to win the argument.
(And the British Isles are comprised of more than Ireland and the "UK mainland").
QuoteIs ireland and the Uk mainland not known collectively as the British isles
Thats been another can of worms as well
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:36:29 PM
You could, but you wouldn't expect to win the argument.
(And what, pray tell, is the "UK mainland"?)
That would be the big chunk of land to the right of ireland between it and france but not including offshore places such as the isle of man etc.
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
From the mighty wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:British_Isles_Euler_diagram.svg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:British_Isles_Euler_diagram.svg)
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 03:47:52 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:36:29 PM
You could, but you wouldn't expect to win the argument.
(And what, pray tell, is the "UK mainland"?)
That would be the big chunk of land to the right of ireland between it and france but not including offshore places such as the isle of man etc.
As you see, I withdrew the question before you answered it because I couldn't pretend not to know what you meant. "Mainland" is an unusual name for a land mass that is itself an offshore island, but I'll concede that it's technically supportable as it is the largest single chunk of the UK.
Quote from: nifan on November 07, 2008, 03:52:42 PM
From the mighty wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:British_Isles_Euler_diagram.svg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:British_Isles_Euler_diagram.svg)
That's pretty good.
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:49:22 PM
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
Agreed, geography shouldn't be used to map out politcal boundaries.
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:49:22 PM
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
Agreed, geography shouldn't be used to map out politcal boundaries.
No, and neither should ignoring the wishes of the vast majority of the Irish people in the 1918 general election
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:49:22 PM
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
Agreed, geography shouldn't be used to map out politcal boundaries.
Ehhh ... that's not what I said, so I'll take your sentence as two separate statements, the second of which is self evident (despite what Sarah Palin may think).
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 04:05:15 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:49:22 PM
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
Agreed, geography shouldn't be used to map out politcal boundaries.
Ehhh ... that's not what I said, so I'll take your sentence as two separate statements, the second of which is self evident (despite what Sarah Palin may think).
Fair enough, it was meant as two seperate statements anyway.
Northwest European Archipelago it is then! A shinner concoction I believe?? Was it McElduff who tried to bring it's usage into the mainstream?
Quote from: red hander on November 07, 2008, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:49:22 PM
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
Agreed, geography shouldn't be used to map out politcal boundaries.
No, and neither should ignoring the wishes of the vast majority of the Irish people in the 1918 general election
That has one problem though in that the irish 1918 general election was part of the greater 1918 United kingdom election, so you could argue that you would have required the vast majority of the total populace of the UK for that vote.
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 07, 2008, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:49:22 PM
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
Agreed, geography shouldn't be used to map out politcal boundaries.
No, and neither should ignoring the wishes of the vast majority of the Irish people in the 1918 general election
That has one problem though in that the irish 1918 general election was part of the greater 1918 United kingdom election, so you could argue that you would have required the vast majority of the total populace of the UK for that vote.
You're completely ignoring the the home rule vote passed in the house of commons by the representatives of the total populace of the uk which was opposed by the threat of violence and of mutiny of the british army, the self-same heroes who provoked this thread in the first place ... democracy, eh? any wonder people become 'terrorists'
Besides, it's the Western European Isles anyway
What does Iceland think about that?
Quote from: red hander on November 07, 2008, 04:22:20 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 07, 2008, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:49:22 PM
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
Agreed, geography shouldn't be used to map out politcal boundaries.
No, and neither should ignoring the wishes of the vast majority of the Irish people in the 1918 general election
That has one problem though in that the irish 1918 general election was part of the greater 1918 United kingdom election, so you could argue that you would have required the vast majority of the total populace of the UK for that vote.
You're completely ignoring the the home rule vote passed in the house of commons by the representatives of the total populace of the uk which was opposed by the threat of violence and of mutiny of the british army, the self-same heroes who provoked this thread in the first place ... democracy, eh? any wonder people become 'terrorists'
Besides, it's the Western European Isles anyway
As far as i know any home rule votes that passed through the commons were defeated in the lords, or am i wrong?
Quote from: Main Street on November 07, 2008, 02:33:17 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 07, 2008, 01:59:19 PM
Well my rationale was that Great Britain and Britain aren't necessarily the same thing. The British Empire wasn't confined to GB and those countries and cities within the Empire were regarded as 'British', were they not?
I am not too hot on the history of British Empire, "Calcutta was a British city" somehow doesn't ring any bells.
There are many examples of such usage - the term 'British India' being one - there are numerous others. The following colonies are/were also widely regarded as 'British', even though they are outside of Great Britain:
Falkland Islands
Gibraltar
Hong Kong
Obviously, from a personal point of view, i see Belfast as an
Irish city - i'm just pointing out that there is logic/rationale for those who call it a 'British' city, despite the fact that it is not on the GB island.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 07, 2008, 01:59:19 PM
Well my rationale was that Great Britain and Britain aren't necessarily the same thing.
They absolutely are, the one and the same thing. In antiquity, the Romans or some such called Britain 'Great' to distinguish it from a 'Little' Britain. That particular moniker (the 'Great') fell into complete disuse, until some insufferable jingoists in Victorian times thought it an opportune and splendidly appropriate time to resurrect that tag, even though it's of no functional use whatsoever, but gave the frightful tosspots a warm feeling of grandeur and superiority (and momentarily took their minds off little boys).
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 07, 2008, 05:23:10 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 07, 2008, 01:59:19 PM
Well my rationale was that Great Britain and Britain aren't necessarily the same thing.
They absolutely are, the one and the same thing.
Yes, okay, i didn't put that across well - see my more recent post above, being the argument that something doesn't have to be in Britain (or Great Britain) to be 'British'. I suppose being British meant/means being ultimately controlled from/by Britain.
The SNP´s leader was on about the "Arc of Solvency" a while ago, Iceland Norway and Scotland (no one ever remembers the Faroes).
After October, Labour retorted about the "Arc of Insolvency" - seriously píssing off the solvent Norwegians.
Kolkata was a "British" city in the sense that the British invaded it and then "owned" it. Belfast is "British" in this sense, I suppose. And I suppose as as a slave is owned by its master and often took his name then its people are "British" too.
Quote from: red hander on November 07, 2008, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:49:22 PM
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
Agreed, geography shouldn't be used to map out politcal boundaries.
No, and neither should ignoring the wishes of the vast majority of the Irish people in the 1918 general election
Aye, I know - and the bastards partitioned Ulster!
We want the occupied 3 back again!!
Quote from: Tonto on November 07, 2008, 10:44:23 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 07, 2008, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:49:22 PM
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
Agreed, geography shouldn't be used to map out politcal boundaries.
No, and neither should ignoring the wishes of the vast majority of the Irish people in the 1918 general election
Aye, I know - and the b**tards partitioned Ulster!
We want the occupied 3 back again!!
thats actually quite funny !
anyhow
all this talk if uk, britain etc
what about any sightings of lord lucan or the bard of sunclug, are they both escaping the law atop of shergar right now ?
has the 'inquest' into whoever hacked onto the bards (unprotected) computer been tracked down yet?
has the bard admitted that he posted the previous numerous sectarian quotes onto this board yet ?
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 04:27:58 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 07, 2008, 04:22:20 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 07, 2008, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: delboy on November 07, 2008, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:49:22 PM
I have no problem with the British Isles as a geographic designation that has no political implications. It wouldn't be uncommon for a group of islands to be designated by the name of the biggest one. (Please don't ask me ...)
Agreed, geography shouldn't be used to map out politcal boundaries.
No, and neither should ignoring the wishes of the vast majority of the Irish people in the 1918 general election
That has one problem though in that the irish 1918 general election was part of the greater 1918 United kingdom election, so you could argue that you would have required the vast majority of the total populace of the UK for that vote.
You're completely ignoring the the home rule vote passed in the house of commons by the representatives of the total populace of the uk which was opposed by the threat of violence and of mutiny of the british army, the self-same heroes who provoked this thread in the first place ... democracy, eh? any wonder people become 'terrorists'
Besides, it's the Western European Isles anyway
As far as i know any home rule votes that passed through the commons were defeated in the lords, or am i wrong?
An unelected body of pro-unionist toffs and chinless bastards sodomised thru the classrooms of eton ... my understanding is at the time mutiny in the british army was a capital offence ... did any of the heroes of the curragh receive a smack on the wrists let alone a bullet thru the heart for their obvious treachery? The same goes for the 'loyalists' of ulster who imported weapons to oppose the democratic wishes of a parliament they claimed loyalty to... was that not treachery too?
So have the police moved to arrest the board member responsible for the whole bard fiasco??
I hear arrests are imminent.
:D :D :D
The third Home Rule act passed both the house of Commons and the house of Lords in 1914.
Quote from: Hardy on November 07, 2008, 03:55:51 PM
Quote from: nifan on November 07, 2008, 03:52:42 PM
From the mighty wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:British_Isles_Euler_diagram.svg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:British_Isles_Euler_diagram.svg)
That's pretty good.
The Isle of Man is on the wrong side
Quote from: his holiness nb on November 09, 2008, 08:21:06 PM
So have the police moved to arrest the board member responsible for the whole bard fiasco??
I hear arrests are imminent.
:D :D :D
I am still at a lose as to what the actual crime was. Certainly the 'culprit' doesn't have a case to answer under the Computer Misuse Act. If anything, it would appear that Neill Armstrong is in acting otuside the principles of the Data Protection Act by (as Lynchbhoy aluded to earlier) not ensuring adequate security for the information held on his PCs. Surely someone should report him to the Information Commissioner, the bard that is not Lynchbhoy.
I have no idea what you're talking about drici.
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on November 09, 2008, 10:41:42 PM
The third Home Rule act passed both the house of Commons and the house of Lords in 1914.
Aye, and the Government of Ireland Act was passed 6 years later.
Since when did republicans care about British law anyway?
...actually, it's probably since they started administering it. :D
Quote from: Tonto on November 11, 2008, 08:51:37 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on November 09, 2008, 10:41:42 PM
The third Home Rule act passed both the house of Commons and the house of Lords in 1914.
Since when did republicans care about British law anyway?
Unionists only cared about Brit Law when it suited them ;)
Neil's been very quiet lately - any word of him ? I wasn't able to sleep last night either.
Don't know about the Bard, but on the subject of "Irish mercenaries" [sic], there was some more good news today of our boys fighting alongside comrades-in-arms from Fiji and St. Helena:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/RIR-soldiers-make-military-history.5046187.jp
RIR soldiers make military history
Published Date: 06 March 2009
(http://editorial.jpress.co.uk/web/Upload/BELF//TH1_63200957RIRISH%20Soldiers%20A.jpg)
(Members of the Royal Irish Regiment - Sgt McConnell, Lcpl Toge, Ranger Owens and Cpl Stevens)
ROYAL Irish soldiers have made British military history by receiving more medals for extreme bravery than any regiment has ever received during a single tour of duty.
As details began to emerge of the heroism shown by Ulster soldiers in Afghanistan last year, citations for selfless courage detailed actions of "superhuman strength" and situations where non-commissioned officers led Afghan soldiers from the front after commanding officers were hit by Taliban fire.
Among a host of medals for Ulster troops, three Royal Irish soldiers, Corporal Robert William McClurg from Portavogie, Corporal Alwyn John Stevens from St Helena and Fiji-born Lance Corporal Bruce Jone Toge, were told that they will be travelling to Buckingham Palace to receive the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross, the Army's second-highest award for bravery, from the Queen.
Since 1993, there have been just over 30 of the medals awarded.
Cpl Stevens was leading an Afghan National Army (ANA) patrol in Helmand Province on September 12 when a local national approached the soldiers to warn them of a sizable Taliban presence in the area.
As Cpl Stevens pushed forward to secure mud compounds, the enemy appeared and he charged forward to confront them, firing from the hip as he advanced, forcing the enemy to temporarily retreat, before regrouping to attack from several sides.
Cpl Stevens "displayed extraordinary courage, selflessness and leadership" as he personally killed several Taliban fighters and managed to withdraw his men. His actions ensured that the Taliban never again appeared in that area in such strength.
LCpl Toge had to take over an ANA patrol when the commander was incapacitated by Taliban fire in July.
Under heavy Taliban small arms fire and rockets, the lance corporal demonstrated tactical presence of mind as he manoeuvered his troops and, demonstrating inspirational leadership, repeatedly exposed himself to Taliban fire to keep the ANA advancing, disregarding his personal safety.
Later, in the scorching heat of midday, LCpl Toge's vehicle was hit 10 times by grenades, seriously injuring the ANA sergeant and blasting the Royal Irish soldier off his feet.
But, his citation reads, "undeterred, he got up and personally extracted the casualty into cover and administered first aid. He then set about dealing with the enemy again, leading the advance with grenade and rifle fire to within a hundred metres of the enemy."
Four Afghan soldiers were injured close to Toge and, "with supreme strength and selflessness", he extracted each one from the area and treated their wounds.
On July 26, Cpl McClurg was in the "eye of the storm" during a battle in a village near Musa Qaleh.
The ANA commander was injured and Cpl McClurg took command, rallying his forces, and, over a period of six hours, mounting assaults on the enemy positions.
He covered more than two kilometres, fighting through 17 defended compounds, while being attacked by enemy flanking attacks and mortar fire.
His citation states that McClurg's intervention turned the battle: "His command, firepower and example inspired the ANA, giving them the confidence to unpick the enemy from their defences".
Wonder does the bloke from Fiji know Sean Og's ma?
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 06, 2009, 05:02:36 PM
Don't know about the Bard, but on the subject of "Irish mercenaries" [sic], there was some more good news today of our boys fighting alongside comrades-in-arms from Fiji and St. Helena:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/RIR-soldiers-make-military-history.5046187.jp
RIR soldiers make military history
are you trying to set some kind of record for the 'most irellevant posts' per day/week/year ?
::)
break his current record you mean?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 06, 2009, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 06, 2009, 05:02:36 PM
Don't know about the Bard, but on the subject of "Irish mercenaries" [sic], there was some more good news today of our boys fighting alongside comrades-in-arms from Fiji and St. Helena:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/RIR-soldiers-make-military-history.5046187.jp
RIR soldiers make military history
are you trying to set some kind of record for the 'most irellevant posts' per day/week/year ?
::)
When Donagh opened this thread a while back, it was specifically about the Royal Irish Regiment (or "Mercenaries" as he terms them). Orangeman having "bumped" the thread for no apparent reason, I merely posted a topical piece of news which was published today about the RIR, including some of its Commonwealth members.
Now you may not find that very interesting, even pleasing, but whatever else, you cannot claim it to be "irrelevant" to the thread - quite the opposite, in fact.
Quote from: Doogie Browser on March 06, 2009, 05:10:23 PM
Wonder does the bloke from Fiji know Sean Og's ma?
wonder does Evil Genius know who Sean Og is? :P
If EG's heroes were at home in their own country nobody would be shooting at them( not since 1994 anyway ;))
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on March 06, 2009, 05:47:50 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on March 06, 2009, 05:10:23 PM
Wonder does the bloke from Fiji know Sean Og's ma?
wonder does Evil Genius know who Sean Og is? :P
We all know who sean og is, neither of his parents from a hurling stronghold ;)
Quote from: nifan on March 06, 2009, 06:21:53 PM
We all know who sean og is, neither of his parents from a hurling stronghold ;)
THey could be from any one of twenty counties so. :D
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 06, 2009, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 06, 2009, 05:02:36 PM
Don't know about the Bard, but on the subject of "Irish mercenaries" [sic], there was some more good news today of our boys fighting alongside comrades-in-arms from Fiji and St. Helena:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/RIR-soldiers-make-military-history.5046187.jp
RIR soldiers make military history
are you trying to set some kind of record for the 'most irellevant posts' per day/week/year ?
::)
He is more like Our Wee Toy Soldier poring over his war games map, completly ignorant of the horrors and havoc this war is causing while advertising the glorification of the perceptions of great deeds in battle.
The BBC correspondant in his latest dispatch braces the world for
A SUMMER OF VIOLENCE just ahead
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_7920000/newsid_7920500/7920533.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_7920000/newsid_7920500/7920533.stm)
"Helmand (where the Brits are) is afflicted by a violent insurgency, widespread poverty and drugs. The province remains the largest centre of opium production in the world."
"The millions of pounds spent and the hundreds of lives lost in Helmand have failed to reduce the violence.
The province is bracing itself for what's expected to be a summer of violence, as thousands of US troops arrive here in the coming months."
Quote from: nifan on March 06, 2009, 06:21:53 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on March 06, 2009, 05:47:50 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on March 06, 2009, 05:10:23 PM
Wonder does the bloke from Fiji know Sean Og's ma?
wonder does Evil Genius know who Sean Og is? :P
We all know who sean og is, neither of his parents from a hurling stronghold ;)
He's not from a hurling stronghold himself anymore.
I see the Bard of Dunclug and made a comeback:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/shots-fired-at-house-after-flags-row-14373348.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/shots-fired-at-house-after-flags-row-14373348.html)
Shots fired at house after flags row
Tuesday, 30 June 2009
Up to three shots have been fired at a house in a row over flags.
Nobody was injured but a man and woman were left shocked and windows damaged following the attack shortly after midnight in the Rossdale area of Ballymena, Co Antrim.
Ulster Unionist Party (UUP) councillor Neil Armstrong said there had been a dispute in the largely unionist area over flags.
"I just think this is truly a despicable act against people who are good hard-working members of society trying to do their best," he said.
"For them to be attacked like this is an absolute and utter shame and it is unforgivable."
This was the second time the property has been targeted after the victims, a couple in their mid-30s involved in community relations, asked for flags to be taken down until the start of July as per an earlier agreement, Mr Armstrong added.
Police patrols in the area have been stepped up after local police commander, Chief Inspector Ryan Henderson, condemned the shooting as totally reckless.
He said: "I utterly condemn those responsible for the shooting incident. It was a totally reckless act and sheer good fortune that no-one was injured."
His thoughts were first and foremost with the householders for whom it had been a terrible ordeal.
"I can reassure them and other residents in Rossdale that we are treating this matter very seriously and have already increased neighbourhood patrols in the area," he said.
He never did tell us if he found out who used his computer :D
Wonder how this eejit is getting on these days.
Building bridges I'm sure and reresenting all sides. ;)
You're obviously in need of some light hearted entertainment Puck. Start at page 1.