Irish mercenaries, unionist coat trailers and the Bard of Dunclug

[Donagh]

Taking your figures from the 2005 Election, 400,179 amounts to 55.77% of the turnout:
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/rw2005.htm
Therefore, we may conclude that 55.77% of the population of NI is Unionist. The nearest reliable population figure I can get for 2005 is (an estimated) 1,741,600 in 2006:

And 55.77% of 1,741,600 works out at 971,290.
Fair enough, if you want to make a liar out of me for 28,710 people then go ahead, knock yourself out...

P.S. I'd enjoy your little victory whilst you can, for as the NIO points out "...The population of Northern Ireland is projected to increase by seventy thousand people (4%) over the five years from 2006 to 2011". With 55.77% of 70,000 amounting to 39,039, I'd say Unionism will hit the million mark some time towards the end of next year, or early 2010!

No you may not conclude any such thing other than there are 400k unionists. Just as valid, or more likely than your conclusion, is the assert that the those who don't vote don't give a feck, so you may not presume they are unionist. Those kind of arrogant assumptions is tribalism at it worst, as is the rest of that particular post. There are not and never have been 1 million unionists or anywhere near it.   

[Donagh]

"The day will come when we fight them, today is not that day"  - A line from Brian Leeson's speech yesterday,

perhaps I've taken that out of context but that sounds chilling, I hope we're not meant to take that on face value.

The context was asking permission from the Brits to walk down Irish roads.

Yes, but what was meant by 'fight'? I think that is what is being questioned.

I took it to mean to walk up the road.

[Aoise]

Sorry Maguire01, but without getting derogatory about it, a history lesson is most certainly not required.  Whilst abstentionism was definitely a part of the pre-1986 brigade, SF felt from that moment in time that participation using physical abstentionism was a better course of action than totally abstaining altogether, hence the sitting of SF as members of parliament without attendance.  You can pick me up on the word "always" however the context I refer to is post 1986 split and although not acted upon, SF was already debating this policy from within the cages of long kesh as early as 1973 after internment.  

Regarding the bullet and bomb aspect, I just want to ask you a fair and reasoned question - Do you think that without physical force republicanism, catholics would be able to have the freedoms we currently have in the North of Ireland such as equality (on the whole) and cultural freedom (to a certain extent - we're not there yet)?  Do you think that somewhere along the line the unionist controlled parliament here would have found it in their hearts to give us the freedoms we deserve as human beings?  Its not a loaded question but if you could give a non-derogatory answer I would be very grateful!

[Donagh]

So the fact that SF and eirige etc were unable to persuade more than a fraction of their usual supporters to forsake a couple of hours in bed, in order to be "offended" in person is a sign of "community confidence"?  

How do you mean a "fraction of their usual supporters"? As far as I was aware that's the largest protest éirígí have staged in the two years of their existence and many of those present were on the road a long time before the loyalist knuckledraggers that turned out to disgrace us all. As for SF, 2000 at a protest is a very respectable figure. Their dignified and respectable protest came over a lot better than the masses of drunken spides hanging from the scaffolding chanting the Windsor Park playlist. 

You know, I really think you believe that, don't you? Well as someone who has actually spoken to some of the Unionists who were there - unlike you - and who has a closer insight as to what makes Unionists tick than you, let me put my own interpretation on events.

I think they would call that 'hearsay'. I attended the days proceedings, you did not. I have also spoken to unionist friends and they were totally disgusted by the behaviour of the unionist Neanderthals and appalled by the presence of gangsters associating themselves with the events and receiving cheers from the onlookers. 

[his holiness nb]

Just to qualify, I know the protests should be always held without incident, this SHOULD be a given.

But this is the North and quite ofter is not the case, as we saw in the actions of Loyalist paramilitaries at the homecoming parade.

This is nothing to do with SF or eirigi or anyone else encouraging the loyalists out, its simple, hold a parade for the likes of these soldiers and people of their own level will turn out to welcome them, thats why we saw the scumbags in abundance.

The soldiers are no better, in fact possibly worse than the UDA /loyalists scum we saw attend.

[Donagh]

I had refrained till now to reply to this post as I saw something completely different myself on Sunday morning.  As a resident of the Lower Falls, with a clear view of all events I saw clearly loads of spides and wannabee RA 'men' complete with Celtic jerseys I might add.  I know that some former Provo prisoners showed their heads as well.  I am not saying that the crowd was full of rabble as it most clearly was not, there were people there purely out of conviction and truthfully there were more there out of conviction than there were scumbags.

The point I am making is that things were not as you portrayed them.  Scumbags were present and also... I spotted loads of Shinners in close proximity to events outside StMarys school.  It had been suggested in one of the Sunday papers that the Shinners did some sort of deal with the various dissident groups.  From what I witnessed on Sunday, I am inclined to believe it.

By the way, the reference to Celtic jerseys I made is borne out by pics in local newspapers this morning  

I'm not sure what you are getting at or what part of my post you are objecting to. Is it the bit about Celtic tops? I didn't see any at éirígí protest and there were no spides taking part in the protest. A few hangers-on came up behind while the protest was at the PSNI lines but the were quickly dealt with by the marshals.

[Donagh]

There are many better, more experienced and more intelligent men then you who have chosen to continue the struggle and improve things for out people (in both jurisdictions) by whatever means suit the times.

Donagh you are really outdoing yourself this time. Continue what struggle? Sitting in Stormont drinking tea with Peter Robinson and Reg Empty is in no way a continuing a struggle. The 1994 ceasefire was the unconditional surrender of the IRA. Sinn Fein taking their seats in Stormont was the final nail in the coffin. They are administering British rule in the North and the only thing more pathetic than that is the fact that you are in denial.
You spoke of a man who was imprisoned in every decade from the 40s to the 80s, is it any wonder we lost with volunteers of that caliber. Then again the people he trusted were probably working for the other side. Its not as if you arent riddled with informers now is it?   How is Scap keeping these days?  I believe he has a lovely little villa in Tuscany, I wonder who paid for that? Then again, where did the money for all those holiday homes in Donegal come from? Maybe Donaldson couldnt keep up his repayments  

5iveTimes I think you've clearly shown on this thread that your not worth replying to, so I think this will be the last.

[ardmhachaabu]

I had refrained till now to reply to this post as I saw something completely different myself on Sunday morning.  As a resident of the Lower Falls, with a clear view of all events I saw clearly loads of spides and wannabee RA 'men' complete with Celtic jerseys I might add.  I know that some former Provo prisoners showed their heads as well.  I am not saying that the crowd was full of rabble as it most clearly was not, there were people there purely out of conviction and truthfully there were more there out of conviction than there were scumbags.

The point I am making is that things were not as you portrayed them.  Scumbags were present and also... I spotted loads of Shinners in close proximity to events outside StMarys school.  It had been suggested in one of the Sunday papers that the Shinners did some sort of deal with the various dissident groups.  From what I witnessed on Sunday, I am inclined to believe it.

By the way, the reference to Celtic jerseys I made is borne out by pics in local newspapers this morning  

I'm not sure what you are getting at or what part of my post you are objecting to. Is it the bit about Celtic tops? I didn't see any at éirígí protest and there were no spides taking part in the protest. A few hangers-on came up behind while the protest was at the PSNI lines but the were quickly dealt with by the marshals.

Your intimations that eirigi are a sound bunch of people ring hollow with what I saw for myself.

Do you understand?

[Yes I Would]

Just to qualify, I know the protests should be always held without incident, this SHOULD be a given.

But this is the North and quite ofter is not the case, as we saw in the actions of Loyalist paramilitaries at the homecoming parade.

This is nothing to do with SF or eirigi or anyone else encouraging the loyalists out, its simple, hold a parade for the likes of these soldiers and people of their own level will turn out to welcome them, thats why we saw the scumbags in abundance.

The soldiers are no better, in fact possibly worse than the UDA /loyalists scum we saw attend.

Sure they are all one UDR/ RIR whatever you want to call them. Bad shower of c***ts.  Manys an innocent taig was murdered at their hands.
A shinner protest was justified, and on the whole part seemed to be dignified and peaceful.

The rent a mob on the other side  just couldnt behave and yet again showed themselves up for what they are in front of the world media.
Did they even acknowledge the homecoming as they adjusted their rangers scarves up around their faces, and chanted obscene sectarian insults ??

[5iveTimes]

5iveTimes I think you've clearly shown on this thread that your not worth replying to, so I think this will be the last.

The truth hurts Donagh  
I used to think you had to wait until Connolly house opened in the morning to get an opinion, but I was wrong, you probably just call your handlers like everyone else in Sinn fein

[5iveTimes]

Your intimations that eirigi are a sound bunch of people ring hollow with what I saw for myself.

Do you understand?

He is incapable of understanding, his head is firmly buried in the sand.
Donagh I suppose ardmhachaabu had an agenda, or is he bitter and twisted? He couldnt be right, how could he, he was only there. Maybe you could buy him a pair of Sinn Fein blinkers, are they still available by mail order from  An Phoblacht.
This is so f*cked up that I am agreeing with someone called ardmhachaabu, well done Donagh, you`ll have me going to mass next.

[Maguire01]

Sorry Maguire01, but without getting derogatory about it, a history lesson is most certainly not required.  Whilst abstentionism was definitely a part of the pre-1986 brigade, SF felt from that moment in time that participation using physical abstentionism was a better course of action than totally abstaining altogether, hence the sitting of SF as members of parliament without attendance.  You can pick me up on the word "always" however the context I refer to is post 1986 split and although not acted upon, SF was already debating this policy from within the cages of long kesh as early as 1973 after internment.  

Well it was on the basis of 'always' that i picked you up on it. That and the continued abstention from Westminster. If the policy was to "take something apart from within", then surely they'd be in London too. I'm also hoping they're in the Assembly for constructive purposes - to work for the poeple who put them there, and not just to "take it apart from within ".

Regarding the bullet and bomb aspect, I just want to ask you a fair and reasoned question - Do you think that without physical force republicanism, catholics would be able to have the freedoms we currently have in the North of Ireland such as equality (on the whole) and cultural freedom (to a certain extent - we're not there yet)?  Do you think that somewhere along the line the unionist controlled parliament here would have found it in their hearts to give us the freedoms we deserve as human beings?  Its not a loaded question but if you could give a non-derogatory answer I would be very grateful!

And i'll ask you a question in return - Was it a price worth paying?
In answering your question, i believe that democratic policies - and a lot of external pressure - would have yielded the same result. Possibly sooner, and without the bloodshed. I don't believe that Unionists would have been able to continue as they had been. But that's a whole other thread and there's no point in taking this way off track.

[pintsofguinness]

Cat got your tongue 5ivetimes, what's your alternative?

[Maguire01]

How do you mean a "fraction of their usual supporters"? As far as I was aware that's the largest protest éirígí have staged in the two years of their existence

Does that in itself not prove that they have no popular support?

[5iveTimes]

My alternative is to live out the rest of my life in peace with my neighbours. I`ll spend 3 months of the year in my holiday home in Florida and continue to pay my taxes here in Ireland. I dont care what happens anymore. But the hypocrisy of Idiots like Donagh who would like to take the moral high ground sickens my hole, they (Sinn Fein) are in the pay of their sworn enemy. They are running NI on behalf of Her Majesty`s Government, but if the truth be told, Her Majestys Government has been running the Republican movement for some time.