Irish mercenaries, unionist coat trailers and the Bard of Dunclug

[his holiness nb]

Sad that its been turned into a SF V Unionist thing again. It shouldnt even be connected with the British Army and its history here. Plain and simple, the protestors should be from an "anti war" point of view, based purely on what they are doing in Iraq.

Sadly its not possible in the North, as it will end up being another "one side V the other" row.

[bignifanatic]

I will be there simply to thank the brave men for their service, nothing more, nothing less.

[SidelineKick]

I will be there simply to thank the brave men for their service, nothing more, nothing less.

What service is this?

[Onion Bag]

I wish Sinn fein would put as much effort into running the country as they do organising Protests, the whole country is on its knees with the economy, job losses, education, the executive have not met now in 3-4 months and here they are organising a protest rally. Personally i couldnt give a f**k if the Britsh Army march up and down the street all day everyday, i wont go to see them, out of sight out of mind, and if it comes on tv turn the tv off. nobody is asking anyone to watch it,
I would love to have the power to pull each and everyone of the executives huge salaries until they get the country sorted, and we will soon see changes, its an absolute disgrace the way it is at the min

[his holiness nb]

I will be there simply to thank the brave men for their service, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes I'ts true, Northern Ireland is now a safer place thanks to these mens "actions" in Iraq 
Murderous bloodthirsty cowards.

[SidelineKick]

I will be there simply to thank the brave men for their service, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes I'ts true, Northern Ireland is now a safer place thanks to these mens "actions" in Iraq 
Murderous bloodthirsty cowards.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[nifan]

Yes I'ts true, Northern Ireland is now a safer place thanks to these mens "actions" in Iraq 
Murderous bloodthirsty cowards.

Do you think every member of the military in Iraq is a murderous bloodthirsty coward?

[his holiness nb]

Yes I'ts true, Northern Ireland is now a safer place thanks to these mens "actions" in Iraq 
Murderous bloodthirsty cowards.

Do you think every member of the military in Iraq is a murderous bloodthirsty coward?

The majority of them nifan. The ones with a bit of intelligence anyway. Enough to know fine well that what they are doing is plain wrong.

Maybe theres some there who honestly think they are there to liberate and spread democracy.
I wouldnt call them murderous or cowards, just incredibly stupid.

[Donagh]

There's a certain amount of collective responsibility that has to be accepted by all members of the British armed forces for the actions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Ireland.

[his holiness nb]

I think some people (of a Unionist persuasion) will support them purely because they are serving the british army, even if deep down they know what they are doing is wrong.

Sure certain politicians would even support them murdering innocent internet board members for having differing opinions on the subject.

[Evil Genius]

I believe the Royal Irish march is divisive and sectarian

Mark Thompson
Monday, 27 October 2008

"In England there was..."  etc

No doubt Donagh unintentionally overlooked the reply to the above in the following day's Belfast Telegraph:


March won't celebrate war, it will honour armed forces

By Michael Copeland
Tuesday, 28 October 2008

There is an old saying that there is nothing new under the sun, and if proof of that is required, we need look no further than the furore building around the incorrectly named RIR homecoming parade set to take place in Belfast this Sunday, November 2.

The event is actually a Combined or TriService parade organised by the Ministry of Defence through Headquarters Northern Ireland in response to an invitation extended by Belfast City Council. The event will see members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and others assemble and parade in the vicinity of Belfast City Hall

In an entirely reprehensible way, Sinn Fein has organised a counter demonstration in the same area on the same date and at a similar time. Incidentally, this tactic was adopted by supporters of Ian Paisley on November 30, 1968, when they attempted to thwart a civil rights march in Armagh City. Of even more concern are the intentions of so-called dissident republicans who are inviting people from all over the island of Ireland to a protest at Divis flats. Since they haven't notified the Parades Commission, they are pretty much free to do what they like in terms of the parading legislation.

Those who have set our society on this collision course would do well to examine the history of service given by the men and women of this island to the British Armed Forces and services over many centuries.

The Royal Irish is the last Irish infantry regiment of the line serving in the British Army, and is therefore the inheritor of traditions going back as far as 1688. In common with all its predecessors, it is unashamedly Irish in its traditions, uniform, music and mascot; it has as its motto the phrase Faugh a Ballagh from the Irish Fag an Bealach.

According to tradition, this was first used on March 5, 1811, at the battle of Barossa when a British attack against the French had faltered. The Coldstream Guards, who were in front of the 2nd Batt, 87th Regiment of Foot (forerunners of the Royal Irish) were not displaying much stomach to press the attack, but the Irish-speaking soldiers of the 87th roared 'Fag an Bealach' (clear the way), successfully attacking the French through the Coldstream lines. During the same engagement, Ensign Keogh lost his life attempting to take a French Eagle, their equivalent of a Regimental Colour. The Eagle however, was captured shortly afterwards by Sgt Patrick Masterson with the immortal words 'be jabbers, boys, oi have the cuckoo'

During the First World War almost 300,000 Irish men and women volunteered for service in the British Forces with almost 50,000 giving their lives. This story, forgotten for almost 100 years, is now the subject of much welcome research in the Irish Republic.

For me, one of the most poignant stories from that time relates to an incident in 1917 when elements of the 36th Ulster Division were to be withdrawn from the line to rest before a planned attack. They were replaced by soldiers of the 16th Irish Division. During the handover inspection, the two respective Commanding Officers visited a sandbagged bastion. The Northern Colonel said: "My men have built this place and called it Derry's walls; I daresay your men will change its name." With much emotion and handshaking, the Southern Officer declared that the men of Leinster "would hold Derry's walls on behalf of their northern comrades".

The end of the Great War saw an event that has, perhaps, the most relevance to that proposed for November 2, when several Irish Battalions of the British Army accompanied by their Bands paraded in the Falls Road district of Belfast to attend a Mass at St Peter's Cathedral to celebrate their safe return from that conflict.

The parade on November 2 cannot be taken as a celebration of war and can only be properly viewed as an appropriate recognition of those 'who must conduct the business of war when the business of politics fails'.

When we live in a democracy and accept the notions of freedom of speech and freedom of expression, we should not be surprised when we hear and see things with which we disagree. However, we must never forget that these freedoms were won and are guarded by the young men and women of the Armed Forces. No matter how much the organisers of these counter demonstrations attempt to disguise their motives, their actions will be judged as nasty, shallow, spiteful, indefensible and inappropriate.

Without doubt, republicans do have a right to fly in the face of the history of this island, if they so choose. Without doubt they have the right to seek permission to hold a protest on November 2. The question is whether they are morally correct to exercise such rights on this occasion.

Michael Copeland is an Ulster Unionist councillor and former member of the UDR
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/march-wonrsquot-celebrate-war-it-will-honour-armed-forces-14017864.html

[full back]

Without doubt, republicans do have a right to fly in the face of the history of this island, if they so choose. Without doubt they have the right to seek permission to hold a protest on November 2. The question is whether they are morally correct to exercise such rights on this occasion.

Is it morally correct to invade countries & kill and maim countless women & children  

IMHO, this debate is dead in the water. There is going to be parades on Sunday as as much rioting as you want, is going to occur because of these parades esp with the spides drinking all weekend & plenty of people from outside the city coming in to 'take part' in the parades

[Evil Genius]

Without doubt, republicans do have a right to fly in the face of the history of this island, if they so choose. Without doubt they have the right to seek permission to hold a protest on November 2. The question is whether they are morally correct to exercise such rights on this occasion.

Is it morally correct to invade countries & kill and maim countless women & children  

IMHO, this debate is dead in the water. There is going to be parades on Sunday as as much rioting as you want, is going to occur because of these parades esp with the spides drinking all weekend & plenty of people from outside the city coming in to 'take part' in the parades

As far as I'm concerned, the invasion of Afghanistan was and is entirely justified. (More importantly, according to the UN, it was, as well.) By contrast, I feel the invasion of Iraq was not justified. But that is not the point. It was not the various coalition armies who decided to invade. Rather, it was their (democratically elected) political masters who made these decisions and it was for the soldiers, sailors and airmen to do their duty and serve, as they pledged when they signed up.

Consequently, this Parade is not a referendum on the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq. Rather, it is an opportunity for the families, friends and loved ones of these servicemen and women to welcome them home safe and sound from the battlefield. As such, a short parade on a Sunday morning, through an otherwise quiet Belfast City centre, need trouble no-one who doesn't wish to be troubled.

[Zapatista]

Clearly the death of an Irish guy against the french 100 years ago is justification for the invasion of Iraq. There was no need to make up the weapons of mass destruction story at all.

[Zapatista]

Rather, it is an opportunity for the families, friends and loved ones of these servicemen and women to welcome them home safe and sound from the battlefield.

And rally more young men and women to the call of Britan in their next invasion.