gaaboard.com

4 June 2012 Last updated at 15:27

Mother's anger over GAA club's 'IRA medals' for under-12s

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60685000/jpg/_60685948_medal1.jpg)
The medal carries a photograph of IRA man Martin McCaughey

The mother of an 11-year-old boy is angry that children at a Gaelic Athletic Club football blitz at the weekend were given medals bearing the picture of a dead IRA man.

The medals given to the Under-12 boys at Galbally Pearses Club in Tyrone featured Martin McCaughey.

He and IRA man Dessie Grew were shot dead by the SAS in October 1990.

"It was outrageous. My son was asking what the hero did," said the mother who did not want to be named.

"We had no warning that the medals would be dedicated to a dead IRA man.

""I think we should have at least been told what the medals would have on them and given a chance to decide whether we wanted our children to take part or not."

A press officer for Tyrone Gaelic Athletic Association said: "If the mother has a comment, she should make it to Tyrone County offices, they would obviously look at it."

A spokesman for the GAA's Ulster Council said: "The Ulster Council has no comment to make until we receive official notification from the individual involved."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18322046

Thanks for pointing out (again) how awful we are.

Was at a friends last night, big rugby man who loves the gaelic also, asked me about this carry on of giving out the hero medals in Tyrone. Did know anything about it till today

Can we not seperate the politics from sport? Gaa shooting themselves in the foot and keeping other peoples (prods) views of Gaa firmly in the past.

Do we not want to involve everyone in our sports?

From the same clowns who staged the hunger strike commemoration on GAA property a couple of years back. The fact that they're at the same sort of thing again shows the lack of will on the part of the GAA to deal with it.

I see there is no mention of it but is there a possibility that McCaughey was involved in the GAA in Galbally prior to his death and thus that being the reason for his placement on the medal?

Quote from: DownFanatic on June 05, 2012, 02:19:24 PM
I see there is no mention of it but is there a possibility that McCaughey was involved in the GAA in Galbally prior to his death and thus that being the reason for his placement on the medal?

Yeah I've no doubt that he probably was, as was Kevin Lynch and a lot more I'm sure but this was always going to raise concerns and give people reasons to beat the GAA.

Great tournament by the way Hardstation.

Quote from: DownFanatic on June 05, 2012, 02:19:24 PM
I see there is no mention of it but is there a possibility that McCaughey was involved in the GAA in Galbally prior to his death and thus that being the reason for his placement on the medal?

I'm sure that would be the position of the club if pressed. I think in any of these clubs you could find a bigger clubman to name a trophy after than a dead terrorist.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 02:35:23 PM

Quote from: DownFanatic on June 05, 2012, 02:19:24 PM
I see there is no mention of it but is there a possibility that McCaughey was involved in the GAA in Galbally prior to his death and thus that being the reason for his placement on the medal?

I'm sure that would be the position of the club if pressed. I think in any of these clubs you could find a bigger clubman to name a trophy after than a dead terrorist.

Agree with that. Moronic decision by the club involved.

Quote from: Geoff Tipps on June 05, 2012, 02:37:34 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 02:35:23 PM

Quote from: DownFanatic on June 05, 2012, 02:19:24 PM
I see there is no mention of it but is there a possibility that McCaughey was involved in the GAA in Galbally prior to his death and thus that being the reason for his placement on the medal?

I'm sure that would be the position of the club if pressed. I think in any of these clubs you could find a bigger clubman to name a trophy after than a dead terrorist.

Agree with that. Moronic decision by the club involved.

Totally agree.

They were flying Italian flags. That made me sick to the stomach.

Clearly, for some, provocation and confrontation are more important than sport. Flags, emblems and photographs.

What a shitty looking yoke to hand out to a youngster, ffs  this crowd are trying to attract attention with that load of bollocks.

There is no need for the likes of this sort of thing, it is divisive and does nothing to further the sport, rather it sullies it's name and gives the likes of haters like EG opportunities to hammer the association.

Your woman has every right to be upset because she obviously has no gra for Republician freedom fighters/terrorists (take your pick) and she should not have someone else's politics rammed down her throat via her sons sporting prowess.

The GAA need to come out and take this issue seriously, it is counter productive in the extreme.

When the IFA were letting their clubs lease out their facilities to known terrorists who then almost kill a man by beating him and hitting him with a car..................................where was the evil one???? :o

She pays her taxes to a government in which Martin McGuinness is Deputy First Minister. It doesn't mean she should expect her tax forms to come with a picture of Bobby Sands.

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 03:37:27 PM
She let her son play in a tournament run by Galbally PEARSES and then shit her pants because the medal had a 'terrorist' on it.

Fcuk me....

That's it Hardstation, dig your heels in and stick two fingers out.

Thankfully, most people in Northern Ireland have recognised that it's an easier and better life not to wind each other up.

This club should face some kind of punishment from GAA HQ. This is nothing like the GAA I grew up supporting and playing (with several clubs in a few counties and countries).

Hardstation because the world has moved on since the Pearses were formed.


You should try it sometime.

It's a better world. I promise.

Big mistake by the club, no doubt.

Hardstation because there was no outcry at your club everyone should have the same view?

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 03:46:14 PM
That makes no sense, hardy.

My point is that it's unnecessarily divisive and clearly provocative, not just to non-nationalists but to the wider GAA membership who are, at least, uncomfortable with, at best totally opposed to the invocation of IRA figures in the GAA context.

For me, the James Connolly argument doesn't stand up. There is no equivalence, in purely GAA terms, between the IRA of the War of Independence and the IRA of the troubles or between James Connolly and Martin McCaughey. That is not to go into the political argument about relative legitimicacies of the Old IRA and the Provos - I'm happy to have that debate, but it's not the point here.

I mean that James Connolly, Padraig Pearse, etc. are not divisive figures among the present day GAA membership, never mind the wider public (nationalist, at least, and even beyond that to some extent). We can argue about whether the reason for that is simply the passage of time or some substantive difference in their acceptability. Whatever - the point is that invoking latter-day Provisional IRA figures is deliberately divisive and provocative and effectively bending the party-political rule because those doing it know that the majority of members are very unhappy about it and don't subscribe to the political philosophy being so obviously touted. What good does it do for an organisation whose primary purpose is community service and development?

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 03:56:06 PM
As I said, our club recently ran a Joe McKelvey tournament. No outcry.

Why is that?

If I reverse out of my driveway everyday without looking, and never hit anyone, does that mean i get a pardon on the day I finally do hit someone? No it doesn't. Especially not when I've had umpteen near misses.

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 03:56:06 PM
As I said, our club recently ran a Joe McKelvey tournament. No outcry.

Why is that?

Joe McKelvey died ninety years ago. Enough time has passed to ensure that there are few around today who would have been directly effected by anything he did in pursuit of his politics. He is a part of history. The same can't be said for the more recent generation of 'heroes' who killed and died in pursuit of a power sharing assembly in Stormont and to guarantee for all of us the right to see the union flag fly above Belfast City Hall on designated days only.

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 04:14:02 PM
I'm not talking about yer woman getting offended, I'm talking about the views of people on here.

Hardy seems to get it but seems to think that non divisive "terrorists" should stay and divisive "terrorists" kept out which is all very subjective.

Again, it's cherry picking your "terrorists".

If we rid ourselves of politics, we rid ourselves of all politics.

There's a lot of sense in what you say hardstation, but I'm sure most people instinctively know which are likely to cause most offence, and which are deemed acceptable. For example George Washington is not a terrorist anymore, but he probably was back in the 1700s.

It is undoubtedly vague, but I think the 'gut feel' check is normally fairly spot on here. Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmett, Padraig Pearse are undoubtedly seen in a different light to Bobby Sands, Martin McCaughey or any other participant in the most recent troubles.

Whether it's right or not that they are seen differently can be debated all day, but they are seen differently by most of the people in this country, I would suggest, even if seen as the same by a sizeable minority.

It is noticeable that no-one has a Michael Collins GAA club, or an Eamonn De Velera club though, at least that I'm aware of? Then again that Collins is a woeful ref so why would you?

I'm all for rememberance but I don't think doing it on medals for children playing GAA is really the appropriate time or place to do it.

Why is there a need to commemorate anyone on a set of u12 medals?

All 11 and 12 year olds want to do is go out and play matches. They couldn't care less about symbols, flags, plaques, club names etc. If everyone else on this island adopted a similar attitude we'd all be in a much better place.

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 04:14:02 PM
I'm not talking about yer woman getting offended, I'm talking about the views of people on here.

Hardy seems to get it but seems to think that non divisive "terrorists" should stay and divisive "terrorists" kept out which is all very subjective.

Again, it's cherry picking your "terrorists".

If we rid ourselves of politics, we rid ourselves of all politics.

I do get it, I think, but I never mentioned "terrorists" (we can have that debate separately too). I mentioned deliberate divisiveness and provocation.

Does anyone know how long this particular tournament has been going on and is this the first time a complaint has been aired about such a medal or such a tournament ?.

With the onset of peace, it seems that there's a move ( I'm not sure where it has come from but I suspect it's high level ) on to try and "clean up" our act and to get rid of the "rednecks" in the association who would seem to be causing it huge embarassment by continuing with tournaments like these. Does this woman really exist who made the complaint ?.

It was not very long ago, fine and dandy to promote republicanism within our GAA grounds. GAA clubs were seen as the IRA at play and individuals within clubs in the North suffered greatly.

But now, with peace, the peace dividend and Peter Robinson giving us a pile of money for the development of GAA, it's now time to cleanse ourselves and consign people like Martin Mc Caughey to the history books. The war's over. The GAA have served their purpose. Time to move on. The history of the troubles has been written. There's a big book called " Tyrone's Struggle for Irish Freedom" available at £25.

It's called progress. But that logic appears to be lost on those who persist with the running of these tournaments and presentation of medals.

The issue of whether it's right to differentiate between Pearse and Sands, Emmett and Mc Caughey is a different concept altogether. Right now, the policy is to pack up the suitcase and move on to a new place and leave the dirty past behind us.

HS is right. One out, all out. You can't cherry pick.

QuoteMy point is that it's unnecessarily divisive and clearly provocative, not just to non-nationalists but to the wider GAA membership who are, at least, uncomfortable with, at best totally opposed to the invocation of IRA figures in the GAA context

I am not sure whether this is the case or not. It is Galbally we are talking about here which was and still is a very strong, traditionally republican area.

For a place like this it is unlikely that such a tournament was divisive or indeed provocative (Sorry couldn't resist) to the vast majority of the parents who allowed their children to play. 

If there is a debate then it should be focused on why the majority of parents think it is acceptable that a youth football tournament should be played in honour of a dead IRA volunteer/terrorist and not on one lady who thinks it was not.

If this particular lady was offended then that is her right to be so - as is her right to have nothing more to do with the club or any of its football teams.

I would suggest that her disgust is a general anti republican stance (again her absolute right) rather than some well thought out cohesive objection to this particular tournament.

Reminds me of the famous Groucho Marx comment "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."

When the new rules are introduced, what date, decade, year or event will be decided upon as the cut off point ?

Were those who fought in the border campaign heroes or terrorists ?

Clady club in Armagh could be in bother.

'Terrorists' up to and including 1957 are tolerated without much ado.
Irish status quo opinion has become very comfortable with the terrorists of previous generations.
So, it probably needs to wait a generation before contention about McCaughey is not an issue.

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 04:57:50 PM
Does anyone know how long this particular tournament has been going on and is this the first time a complaint has been aired about such a medal or such a tournament ?.

With the onset of peace, it seems that there's a move ( I'm not sure where it has come from but I suspect it's high level ) on to try and "clean up" our act and to get rid of the "rednecks" in the association who would seem to be causing it huge embarassment by continuing with tournaments like these. Does this woman really exist who made the complaint ?.

It was not very long ago, fine and dandy to promote republicanism within our GAA grounds. GAA clubs were seen as the IRA at play and individuals within clubs in the North suffered greatly.

But now, with peace, the peace dividend and Peter Robinson giving us a pile of money for the development of GAA, it's now time to cleanse ourselves and consign people like Martin Mc Caughey to the history books. The war's over. The GAA have served their purpose. Time to move on. The history of the troubles has been written. There's a big book called " Tyrone's Struggle for Irish Freedom" available at £25.

It's called progress. But that logic appears to be lost on those who persist with the running of these tournaments and presentation of medals.

The issue of whether it's right to differentiate between Pearse and Sands, Emmett and Mc Caughey is a different concept altogether. Right now, the policy is to pack up the suitcase and move on to a new place and leave the dirty past behind us.

HS is right. One out, all out. You can't cherry pick.

Of course you can cherry pick. If you were a terrorist in living memory (call it 80 years) are out.

Clubs etc. that are already on the books at HQ would be exempt. Stricter rules should be brought in regarding naming new clubs, grounds and competitions even down to individual trophies organised by the club. By membership you agree to comply with the rules. Break them you get hammered, assuming the GAA have the balls for it.

God save the Queen.

























Happy now?

ffs its an underage medal! my kids have cupboards full of them! some of them have the name of the local chipper on them! why did this woman go to the press? why didnt she go to her club and complain? her county secretary? her county chairman? there are procedures... tell you what if getting your name on a underage medal is all you get for getting shot 30 times by the sas...its not alot? in this world people are honoured for everything charity work, bravery, longevity. kings of england gave vast estates to their best generals even though they didnt fire a shot.. ITS ALL IN THE TIMING!! had these men not been shot they could have been great leaders in the peace process or charity workers or something completely different. as it is their lives and their memory is frozen on the day they were killed. as are the lives of their relatives and friends and they want to keep their memory alive and relevant in a completely new enviroment they see this as something to keep their names alive. try to put yourself in their place. maybe theres something else they could do. as for the complainent i have no time for her. she should have followed proper procedure and if she doesnt like "terrorists" then take her kid out of the "pearses" shes only a bollix

Quote from: lawnseed on June 05, 2012, 06:35:48 PM
ffs its an underage medal! my kids have cupboards full of them! some of them have the name of the local chipper on them! why did this woman go to the press? why didnt she go to her club and complain? her county secretary? her county chairman? there are procedures... tell you what if getting your name on a underage medal is all you get for getting shot 30 times by the sas...its not alot? in this world people are honoured for everything charity work, bravery, longevity. kings of england gave vast estates to their best generals even though they didnt fire a shot.. ITS ALL IN THE TIMING!! had these men not been shot they could have been great leaders in the peace process or charity workers or something completely different. as it is their lives and their memory is frozen on the day they were killed. as are the lives of their relatives and friends and they want to keep their memory alive and relevant in a completely new enviroment they see this as something to keep their names alive. try to put yourself in their place. maybe theres something else they could do. as for the complainent i have no time for her. she should have followed proper procedure and if she doesnt like "terrorists" then take her kid out of the "pearses" shes only a bollix

Forgive the whataboutery but would you be as equally understanding if Portadown FC had a Billy Wright memorial trophy for underage players?

Divisive?? One parent complained. One. It was a Galbally tournament. Organised by a club with a freedom fighter fighter to it's name (Galbally Pearses) so no reason not to have a LOCAL freedom fighter (Vol. Martin McCaughey) on the medals. He was a man held in the highest of regards in the local area, (something many posters here refuse to contemplate), and this is in an area which suffered more than most rural villages during the war. So it's just back to the old chestnut of Old IRA=good but PIRA=bad. Some folks just need to confront their own hypocricies. If the club name isn't an issue then the medals shouldn't be either.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 06:42:07 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on June 05, 2012, 06:35:48 PM
ffs its an underage medal! my kids have cupboards full of them! some of them have the name of the local chipper on them! why did this woman go to the press? why didnt she go to her club and complain? her county secretary? her county chairman? there are procedures... tell you what if getting your name on a underage medal is all you get for getting shot 30 times by the sas...its not alot? in this world people are honoured for everything charity work, bravery, longevity. kings of england gave vast estates to their best generals even though they didnt fire a shot.. ITS ALL IN THE TIMING!! had these men not been shot they could have been great leaders in the peace process or charity workers or something completely different. as it is their lives and their memory is frozen on the day they were killed. as are the lives of their relatives and friends and they want to keep their memory alive and relevant in a completely new enviroment they see this as something to keep their names alive. try to put yourself in their place. maybe theres something else they could do. as for the complainent i have no time for her. she should have followed proper procedure and if she doesnt like "terrorists" then take her kid out of the "pearses" shes only a bollix

Forgive the whataboutery but would you be as equally understanding if Portadown FC had a Billy Wright memorial trophy for underage players?

Great question, I would be offended and can see why Unionists would object to this situation.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 05, 2012, 02:08:32 PM
From the same clowns who staged the hunger strike commemoration on GAA property a couple of years back. The fact that they're at the same sort of thing again shows the lack of will on the part of the GAA to deal with it.

Well that was at the Galbally Community Centre beside the GAA grounds but not part of the GAA club - as verified by a GAA investigation. But sure why let the truth get in the way of a good story eh!

Evil Genius is having a good snigger, he starts this, this sits back whilst GAA MEN argue about it !

If there is/was a Billy Wright memorial soccer tournament, you can be sure the BBC website wont have a story on it.

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 05, 2012, 09:12:45 PM
Evil Genius is having a good snigger, he starts this, this sits back whilst GAA MEN argue about it !

If there is/was a Billy Wright memorial soccer tournament, you can be sure the BBC website wont have a story on it.

regardless, talking about it rather than ignoring it is far better, don't you think?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2012, 09:20:26 PM

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 05, 2012, 09:12:45 PM
Evil Genius is having a good snigger, he starts this, this sits back whilst GAA MEN argue about it !

If there is/was a Billy Wright memorial soccer tournament, you can be sure the BBC website wont have a story on it.

regardless, talking about it rather than ignoring it is far better, don't you think?

maybe, but perhaps im showing my age, cause pre-internet age, the bbc news, or the prods, or anyone else wouldnt have gotten hold of this news.

It could have been discussed on the high stools, or street corners etc, and the dirty linen wouldnt be hung out in public.

I hate this shite all the time. No doubt i will get some young cub in his early twenties say to me in work this week "i see the GAA are at it again". Gets on my tits.

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 05, 2012, 09:37:02 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2012, 09:20:26 PM

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 05, 2012, 09:12:45 PM
Evil Genius is having a good snigger, he starts this, this sits back whilst GAA MEN argue about it !

If there is/was a Billy Wright memorial soccer tournament, you can be sure the BBC website wont have a story on it.

regardless, talking about it rather than ignoring it is far better, don't you think?

maybe, but perhaps im showing my age, cause pre-internet age, the bbc news, or the prods, or anyone else wouldn't have gotten hold of this news.

It could have been discussed on the high stools, or street corners etc, and the dirty linen wouldn't be hung out in public.

I hate this shite all the time. No doubt i will get some young cub in his early twenties say to me in work this week "i see the GAA are at it again". Gets on my tits.

I didn't even know about it till last night. I don't watch the news so I'm beat there. But we manage to score a few own goals the odd time. I know plenty prods who want to get involved, mainly rugby men who'd love their kids playing Gaelic during the summer to improve their ball handling/kicking skills but we are missing a trick here I think. Though there seems to be many (here anyways) who rather not have prods playing.

i have nothing against the prods, certainly not. It's the real anti-GAA ones who love to see the GAA painted in a bad light and thrive on this news.

Lads it's not all about the prods. Believe it or not some Catholics aren't fussed on the practice of naming competitions etc. after modern day terrorists. I'm not long home from a match in Gerard McGleenan Park, Keady. As far as I know he was a young, entirely innocent club hurler murdered by the infamous Glenanne Gang. There is a huge difference between that and possibly naming the ground after someone who perpetrated such an act on neighbours up the road. Would the family of the victims be expected to drive past this every day and just suck it up?

A little silver medal with "mc caughey memorial cup" on it would have been fine. Nobody would have batted an eye lid. The picture is what done the damage here.  It caught people's eye. It is also as tacky as f**k. Not the wisest decision by the galbally people but hardly surprising.  ::)

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 05, 2012, 08:18:59 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 02:56:52 PM
In for a penny, in for a pound then. Pearse, Casement, Rossa, McDermotts, Wolfe Tones etc etc. Do away with the lot. You can't handpick which 'terrorists' you would like to include.

Actually, yes you can, people do and people will and for a good reason - they are entitled to disassociate themselves from those who take actions supposedly in their name, their belief or their views. For example, those that planted the car bomb which seen the murder of Ronan Kerr would likely see themselves in the same mould as those you list above yet almost everyone else whom aspires to a politically unified Ireland had reactions from distancing themselves to revulsion - including Sinn Fein, whom have a high proportion of their membership that didn't see the same tactics during the troubles to be as much of a problem. Same goes for the killing of Stephen Carroll and the two sappers at Massereene, seemingly unacceptable these days in the eyes of many prominent republicans not associated with dissident or fringe groups but would have been anything but during the 70's and 80's. Take a flip side to "themmuns" and Remembrance Sunday services - every year Loyalist paramilitaries carry out their own such services in which they remember their 'volunteers' whom lost their lives during the troubles putting them on the same level as those who have fought and died in the British armed forces. Most other unionists OTOH find this idea disgraceful, repulsed at the thought of the likes of George Seawright and Billy Wright being mentioned in the same service as like the fodder whom were sent into the human mincing machines in the trenches in World War I.

One thing about the likes of those whom were behind the Easter Rising is that first no one here is likely to have any living memory of when they were still alive, therefore their legacy is through their writings and recordings by others. It can be easy to romanticise when you don't be there in the moment but that's nothing anyone can do about here. In any case, at least they actually put their heads on the line alongside things like helping Gaelic cultural movements. It's dangerous to assume what those no longer with us would have thought about things beyond their death, but I would like to think that Clarke, Connolly, Pearse etc. would not have been too keen on the idea of proxy bombing.

One in, all in? Nope, it's not quite as simple as that. Michael Stone's epic fail getting stuck in a door at Stormont in 2006 while claiming to defend the union of the UK certainly doesn't mean that he is represents all northerner that regard themselves as unionists.

So no evil actions were committed back then ? Nothing on a par with what went on in the troubles ? Nothing ?

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:26:11 PM

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 05, 2012, 08:18:59 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 02:56:52 PM
In for a penny, in for a pound then. Pearse, Casement, Rossa, McDermotts, Wolfe Tones etc etc. Do away with the lot. You can't handpick which 'terrorists' you would like to include.

Actually, yes you can, people do and people will and for a good reason - they are entitled to disassociate themselves from those who take actions supposedly in their name, their belief or their views. For example, those that planted the car bomb which seen the murder of Ronan Kerr would likely see themselves in the same mould as those you list above yet almost everyone else whom aspires to a politically unified Ireland had reactions from distancing themselves to revulsion - including Sinn Fein, whom have a high proportion of their membership that didn't see the same tactics during the troubles to be as much of a problem. Same goes for the killing of Stephen Carroll and the two sappers at Massereene, seemingly unacceptable these days in the eyes of many prominent republicans not associated with dissident or fringe groups but would have been anything but during the 70's and 80's. Take a flip side to "themmuns" and Remembrance Sunday services - every year Loyalist paramilitaries carry out their own such services in which they remember their 'volunteers' whom lost their lives during the troubles putting them on the same level as those who have fought and died in the British armed forces. Most other unionists OTOH find this idea disgraceful, repulsed at the thought of the likes of George Seawright and Billy Wright being mentioned in the same service as like the fodder whom were sent into the human mincing machines in the trenches in World War I.

One thing about the likes of those whom were behind the Easter Rising is that first no one here is likely to have any living memory of when they were still alive, therefore their legacy is through their writings and recordings by others. It can be easy to romanticise when you don't be there in the moment but that's nothing anyone can do about here. In any case, at least they actually put their heads on the line alongside things like helping Gaelic cultural movements. It's dangerous to assume what those no longer with us would have thought about things beyond their death, but I would like to think that Clarke, Connolly, Pearse etc. would not have been too keen on the idea of proxy bombing.

One in, all in? Nope, it's not quite as simple as that. Michael Stone's epic fail getting stuck in a door at Stormont in 2006 while claiming to defend the union of the UK certainly doesn't mean that he is represents all northerner that regard themselves as unionists.

So no evil actions were committed back then ? Nothing on a par with what went on in the troubles ? Nothing ?

So you can't see the difference between acts 100 years ago and a couple of years ago - the deeds might be the same but I can't imagine many families are dealing with their losses 100 years ago, losses they would be reminded of every day if they had to drive past Billy Wright Memorial Park or Sean Kelly Park? I know you're not that dumb despite your best efforts to make yourself look that way.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 10:31:35 PM

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:26:11 PM

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 05, 2012, 08:18:59 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 02:56:52 PM
In for a penny, in for a pound then. Pearse, Casement, Rossa, McDermotts, Wolfe Tones etc etc. Do away with the lot. You can't handpick which 'terrorists' you would like to include.

Actually, yes you can, people do and people will and for a good reason - they are entitled to disassociate themselves from those who take actions supposedly in their name, their belief or their views. For example, those that planted the car bomb which seen the murder of Ronan Kerr would likely see themselves in the same mould as those you list above yet almost everyone else whom aspires to a politically unified Ireland had reactions from distancing themselves to revulsion - including Sinn Fein, whom have a high proportion of their membership that didn't see the same tactics during the troubles to be as much of a problem. Same goes for the killing of Stephen Carroll and the two sappers at Massereene, seemingly unacceptable these days in the eyes of many prominent republicans not associated with dissident or fringe groups but would have been anything but during the 70's and 80's. Take a flip side to "themmuns" and Remembrance Sunday services - every year Loyalist paramilitaries carry out their own such services in which they remember their 'volunteers' whom lost their lives during the troubles putting them on the same level as those who have fought and died in the British armed forces. Most other unionists OTOH find this idea disgraceful, repulsed at the thought of the likes of George Seawright and Billy Wright being mentioned in the same service as like the fodder whom were sent into the human mincing machines in the trenches in World War I.

One thing about the likes of those whom were behind the Easter Rising is that first no one here is likely to have any living memory of when they were still alive, therefore their legacy is through their writings and recordings by others. It can be easy to romanticise when you don't be there in the moment but that's nothing anyone can do about here. In any case, at least they actually put their heads on the line alongside things like helping Gaelic cultural movements. It's dangerous to assume what those no longer with us would have thought about things beyond their death, but I would like to think that Clarke, Connolly, Pearse etc. would not have been too keen on the idea of proxy bombing.

One in, all in? Nope, it's not quite as simple as that. Michael Stone's epic fail getting stuck in a door at Stormont in 2006 while claiming to defend the union of the UK certainly doesn't mean that he is represents all northerner that regard themselves as unionists.

So no evil actions were committed back then ? Nothing on a par with what went on in the troubles ? Nothing ?

So you can't see the difference between acts 100 years ago and a couple of years ago - the deeds might be the same but I can't imagine many families are dealing with their losses 100 years ago, losses they would be reminded of every day if they had to drive past Billy Wright Memorial Park or Sean Kelly Park? I know you're not that dumb despite your best efforts to make yourself look that way.

I can indeed but do you have a suitable cut off date ?

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 05, 2012, 06:45:45 PM
Divisive?? One parent complained. One. It was a Galbally tournament. Organised by a club with a freedom fighter fighter to it's name so no reason not to have a LOCAL freedom fighter on the medals. And a man held in the highest of regards in the local area at that and in an area which suffered more than most rural villages. Back to the old chestnut of Old IRA=good but PIRA=bad. Some folks just need to confront their own hypocricies. If the club name isn't an issue then the medals shouldn't be either.

Well if that woman pulls her kid from GAA it's one less GAA player.

What is more important:  commemorating provo or promoting the games?

I'm sure non-republicans can rationalise (if not like) historical names such as Pearse, Wolfe Tone etc... but surely you can see that memories of this guys are raw for people? 

The Ulster council are running a community outreach program for unionists.   They should save the money and give it up if the allow clubs hand out medals like this.

/Jim.

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:34:37 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 10:31:35 PM

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:26:11 PM

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 05, 2012, 08:18:59 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 02:56:52 PM
In for a penny, in for a pound then. Pearse, Casement, Rossa, McDermotts, Wolfe Tones etc etc. Do away with the lot. You can't handpick which 'terrorists' you would like to include.

Actually, yes you can, people do and people will and for a good reason - they are entitled to disassociate themselves from those who take actions supposedly in their name, their belief or their views. For example, those that planted the car bomb which seen the murder of Ronan Kerr would likely see themselves in the same mould as those you list above yet almost everyone else whom aspires to a politically unified Ireland had reactions from distancing themselves to revulsion - including Sinn Fein, whom have a high proportion of their membership that didn't see the same tactics during the troubles to be as much of a problem. Same goes for the killing of Stephen Carroll and the two sappers at Massereene, seemingly unacceptable these days in the eyes of many prominent republicans not associated with dissident or fringe groups but would have been anything but during the 70's and 80's. Take a flip side to "themmuns" and Remembrance Sunday services - every year Loyalist paramilitaries carry out their own such services in which they remember their 'volunteers' whom lost their lives during the troubles putting them on the same level as those who have fought and died in the British armed forces. Most other unionists OTOH find this idea disgraceful, repulsed at the thought of the likes of George Seawright and Billy Wright being mentioned in the same service as like the fodder whom were sent into the human mincing machines in the trenches in World War I.

One thing about the likes of those whom were behind the Easter Rising is that first no one here is likely to have any living memory of when they were still alive, therefore their legacy is through their writings and recordings by others. It can be easy to romanticise when you don't be there in the moment but that's nothing anyone can do about here. In any case, at least they actually put their heads on the line alongside things like helping Gaelic cultural movements. It's dangerous to assume what those no longer with us would have thought about things beyond their death, but I would like to think that Clarke, Connolly, Pearse etc. would not have been too keen on the idea of proxy bombing.

One in, all in? Nope, it's not quite as simple as that. Michael Stone's epic fail getting stuck in a door at Stormont in 2006 while claiming to defend the union of the UK certainly doesn't mean that he is represents all northerner that regard themselves as unionists.

So no evil actions were committed back then ? Nothing on a par with what went on in the troubles ? Nothing ?

So you can't see the difference between acts 100 years ago and a couple of years ago - the deeds might be the same but I can't imagine many families are dealing with their losses 100 years ago, losses they would be reminded of every day if they had to drive past Billy Wright Memorial Park or Sean Kelly Park? I know you're not that dumb despite your best efforts to make yourself look that way.

I can indeed but do you have a suitable cut off date ?

Scroll back a couple of pages.

Living memory ? That's a good one.

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:47:47 PM
Living memory ? That's a good one.

Thanks.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 10:51:34 PM

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:47:47 PM
Living memory ? That's a good one.

Thanks.

What's the logic of combatants engaged in conflict / war / murder or whatever you want to call it allowed to be admitted if they were involved pre 1932 with everyone else kicked out ?. You specifically refeered to terrorists. Who were these terrorists according to your classification ?.


What should the GAA do with Kevin Lynchs, Clady Sean Souths ? Should the GAA now take decisive action and ban ALL association with those involved in conflict post 1932 ?.

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 11:03:45 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 10:51:34 PM

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:47:47 PM
Living memory ? That's a good one.

Thanks.

What's the logic of combatants engaged in conflict / war / murder or whatever you want to call it allowed to be admitted if they were involved pre 1932 with everyone else kicked out ?. You specifically refeered to terrorists. Who were the terrorists according to your classification ?.


What should the GAA do with Kevin Lynchs, Clady Sean Souths ? Should the GAA now take decisive action and ban ALL association with those involved in conflict post 1932 ?.

No. Would target all new business re. naming of clubs, grounds, competitions, trophies etc. after terrorists. The past has passed but surely enough good men have passed through the GAA annals of the last 30-50 years to merit commemoration.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 11:10:50 PM

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 11:03:45 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 10:51:34 PM

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:47:47 PM
Living memory ? That's a good one.

Thanks.

What's the logic of combatants engaged in conflict / war / murder or whatever you want to call it allowed to be admitted if they were involved pre 1932 with everyone else kicked out ?. You specifically refeered to terrorists. Who were the terrorists according to your classification ?.


What should the GAA do with Kevin Lynchs, Clady Sean Souths ? Should the GAA now take decisive action and ban ALL association with those involved in conflict post 1932 ?.

No. Would target all new business re. naming of clubs, grounds, competitions, trophies etc. after terrorists. The past has passed but surely enough good men have passed through the GAA annals of the last 30-50 years to merit commemoration.

A lot of good men have passed through is right - but what should the GAA do with these tournaments now that are held in Galbally and in other places ? Should they be banned cos one mother supposedly contacted the BBC ( which I doubt very much happened but that's by the by ) ?.

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 11:16:15 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 11:10:50 PM

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 11:03:45 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 10:51:34 PM

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:47:47 PM
Living memory ? That's a good one.

Thanks.

What's the logic of combatants engaged in conflict / war / murder or whatever you want to call it allowed to be admitted if they were involved pre 1932 with everyone else kicked out ?. You specifically refeered to terrorists. Who were the terrorists according to your classification ?.


What should the GAA do with Kevin Lynchs, Clady Sean Souths ? Should the GAA now take decisive action and ban ALL association with those involved in conflict post 1932 ?.

No. Would target all new business re. naming of clubs, grounds, competitions, trophies etc. after terrorists. The past has passed but surely enough good men have passed through the GAA annals of the last 30-50 years to merit commemoration.

A lot of good men have passed through is right - but what should the GAA do with these tournaments now that are held in Galbally and in other places ? Should they be banned cos one mother supposedly contacted the BBC ( which I doubt very much happened but that's by the by ) ?.

The number of contentious clubs, competitions etc must be miniscule and the various councils probably aren't aware of club awards etc. so it is a difficult one to tackle other than ensuring all clubs are aware of standards expected of them for future naming etc.

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 11:33:54 PM
Fionntamhnach, on an individual basis a person can decide which 'terrorist' he or she likes. A national organisation cannot be so willy nilly on which 'terrorist' it endorses, especially if it wants to be seen as a non political and all inclusive organisation.

Anyway, the GAA will not be non political in my lifetime. On the founds of Irish nationalism it was built and it would need to be completely knocked down and started again in order to remove all fragments of politicisation. Anything else is papering the cracks.

Outside of Ulster it seems to have largely and organically moved to a non-political organisation as far as I can see. I know people will always have their own politics and will be members of an organisation, but this is not the same as endorsements from an organisation itself.

See that bastard Francis Drake was involved in the Rathlin Island massacre of 1575. They wiped out Sorley Boy MacDonnell's family but I'd have no love for Sorley after the dirty trick he pulled on Shane O'Neill in Cushendun though to be fair O'Neill had held him captive for a lock of years and was riding Sorley's wife who was Shane's own half sister.

Is the Campbell/McGirr Cup still on the go?

Let's hope yer woman's son doesn't head til the wiles of Derry and wins the Intermediate championship, winning the Bateson, Sherdian and Lee cup.

For the sake of a quiet life would it kill people to commemorate the activists killed in a more appropriate manner? I mean I like to commemorate my dead gran but I won't be asking the club to put her photo on the U-12 medals.

Given all that was lost during the troubles is it too costly to try and not aggravate the situation, either that or when you do cause divisions don't act with such f**king bewilderment as to what's wrong. Reminds me of how the IFA are so annoyed at losing catholic players, completely under the assumption they themselves shoulder none of the blame. Or that orangemen are oblivious to the fact that marching down Drumcree serves solely as a confrontation and not at all as a commemoration.

Legislating for the fact this thread was started by a shit-stirring WUM, and in light of the jubilee bilge we've had forced down our throats in the last fortnight by c***ts who think this place is british, I for one, as a Tyrone man, am proud of a guy who went head to head with the sas in Cappagh and defeated them. The proof is on the sas memorial in hereford.

 I'm also unreservedly proud of Martin McCaughey but the issue is whether he should be commemorated on a medal or should we wait another 20 years to do so?

Does Linfield fc commemorating the memory of David Ervine  strike fear and loathing throughout the 6 counties or is it understood that he was a longtime club member?

I have no difficulty with people remembering in some way the sacrifices made by freedom fighters in their locality. However, I think it is completely wrong to be involving 10 or 11 year old children in this process. Many counties (including Tyrone I thought) don't allow kids to play competitively at U12 but apparently it is OK to give them medals with IRA men on it. What next, have them parade in military uniform down the street to remember the hunger strikers? We have a terrible past in this country which should be respected but not shoved down the throats of innocent wee kids that are not old enough to decide whether the believe it to be right or wrong.

Ok then, the general consensus is that we continue to have tournaments remembering freedom fighters and never worry what others think? Those who'd complain about these things would normally complain about anything the GAA would do anyway.

By doing this though I think we will never be able to include everybody on the island into GAA. That probably sits better with most

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 02:35:23 PM

Quote from: DownFanatic on June 05, 2012, 02:19:24 PM
I see there is no mention of it but is there a possibility that McCaughey was involved in the GAA in Galbally prior to his death and thus that being the reason for his placement on the medal?

I'm sure that would be the position of the club if pressed. I think in any of these clubs you could find a bigger clubman to name a trophy after than a dead terrorist.

Always been of the same opinion myself.  I doubt McCaughey is the greatest figure from the clubs history or anywhere near it.

Quote from: nrico2006 on June 06, 2012, 09:44:54 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 02:35:23 PM

Quote from: DownFanatic on June 05, 2012, 02:19:24 PM
I see there is no mention of it but is there a possibility that McCaughey was involved in the GAA in Galbally prior to his death and thus that being the reason for his placement on the medal?

I'm sure that would be the position of the club if pressed. I think in any of these clubs you could find a bigger clubman to name a trophy after than a dead terrorist.

Always been of the same opinion myself.  I doubt McCaughey is the greatest figure from the clubs history or anywhere near it.

That's for the people of Galbally to decide and I'd be fairly sure that Vol Martin McCaughey would be one of the first names mentioned by anyone you cared to ask there.

And Tony....one man's terrorist etc. As far as the people of Galbally are concerned, the real terrorists in this case are the people who shot Martin in the back when he posed no threat, then shot him in the head as he lay on the ground wounded.

Its a GAA club and you should be trying to inspire U12's with pictures of County players on medals.

Will one of the GAA clubs in Derry or Lurgan get some dissidents dressed in combat year and balaclava in for the next underage medal presentation?

If the club loses one player over this, then shame on them. If no picture was on the medal, no players or parents would be lost or offended.

Each year the GAA asks people to pay to stand on a terrace in Clones named after a fascist blueshirt. Any objectors would need to think long and hard before criticising the people of Galbally.

Quote from: Bingo on June 06, 2012, 10:05:20 AM
Will one of the GAA clubs in Derry or Lurgan get some dissidents dressed in combat year and balaclava in for the next underage medal presentation?

saying that those pricks burn down GAA clubs in Derry City, I'd doubt it.

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 09:47:34 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2012, 09:41:30 AM
Ok then, the general consensus is that we continue to have tournaments remembering freedom fighters and never worry what others think? Those who'd complain about these things would normally complain about anything the GAA would do anyway.

By doing this though I think we will never be able to include everybody on the island into GAA. That probably sits better with most

Milltown, the point is that the GAA carries a lot more political baggage than that tournament in Galbally.

While we continue to play Amhran na bhFiann, fly a tricolour, have clubs and grounds named after republicans, we are never going to be all inclusive. People are kidding themselves that we will suddenly become all inclusive if we stop honouring any more republicans but retain the memory of the ones we already honour.

I know we won't win everyone over but would be nice to not have the constant 'GAA is the IRA at play' gibe I know it's more common now to see GAA tops all over the place, but would be great to see a prod team playing in the Antrim leagues or Tyrone leagues :o

http://ulster.gaa.ie/community/community-outreach/

You didn't happen to mention any of this EG?

Quote from: Franko on June 06, 2012, 10:22:31 AM
http://ulster.gaa.ie/community/community-outreach/

You didn't happen to mention any of this EG?

1.  I mentioned it in an earlier post.  I say again, the Ulster Council should save their money rather than paying community officers, running these tournaments and flying kids abroad.  In the grand scheme of things it is an utter waste of GAA time and money if you allow clubs to hand out medals with pictures of provos.

2. Yes, if you read the GAA Official Guide and it's preamble you will find stuff of a political/nationalist bent but it also has a lot about promoting Gaelic games.  Putting controversial figures on medals for kids does not promote sport.  If people put promoting this quasi-political stuff ahead of promoting the sport, then they need to get a sense of perspective.

3.  A lot of clubs have grounds, cups, names associated with past nationalists/republicans.  They are a product of those times when the GAA was exclusively nationalist.  Why not accept that times have changed and discontinue the practice?   If Ulster GAA wants to remain exclusively republican the go back to question no.1.

/Jim. 

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 10:20:41 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2012, 10:10:59 AM
I know we won't win everyone over but would be nice to not have the constant 'GAA is the IRA at play' gibe

That jibe long outdates this Galbally tournament, Milltown. It was also there long before any GAA club honoured a 'recent republican' and would still be there if those 'recent republicans' hadn't been honoured.

Yeah, possibly right. We can't really argue then if other sporting organisations have tournaments honouring recent loyalist. As I'm sure they do on the Shankill

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 06, 2012, 10:45:32 AM
3.  A lot of clubs have grounds, cups, names associated with past nationalists/republicans.  They are a product of those times when the GAA was exclusively nationalist.  Why not accept that times have changed and discontinue the practice?   If Ulster GAA wants to remain exclusively republican the go back to question no.1.

Would you change the name of the Sam Maguire Cup?

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 06, 2012, 10:45:32 AM

Quote from: Franko on June 06, 2012, 10:22:31 AM
http://ulster.gaa.ie/community/community-outreach/

You didn't happen to mention any of this EG?

1.  I mentioned it in an earlier post.  I say again, the Ulster Council should save their money rather than paying community officers, running these tournaments and flying kids abroad.  In the grand scheme of things it is an utter waste of GAA time and money if you allow clubs to hand out medals with pictures of provos.

2. Yes, if you read the GAA Official Guide and it's preamble you will find stuff of a political/nationalist bent but it also has a lot about promoting Gaelic games.  Putting controversial figures on medals for kids does not promote sport.  If people put promoting this quasi-political stuff ahead of promoting the sport, then they need to get a sense of perspective.

3.  A lot of clubs have grounds, cups, names associated with past nationalists/republicans.  They are a product of those times when the GAA was exclusively nationalist.  Why not accept that times have changed and discontinue the practice?   If Ulster GAA wants to remain exclusively republican the go back to question no.1.

/Jim.

It isn't.

I will contribute in more detail later, when I've finished my bag pack at Tesco.

Quote from: deiseach on June 06, 2012, 10:50:09 AM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 06, 2012, 10:45:32 AM
3.  A lot of clubs have grounds, cups, names associated with past nationalists/republicans.  They are a product of those times when the GAA was exclusively nationalist.  Why not accept that times have changed and discontinue the practice?   If Ulster GAA wants to remain exclusively republican the go back to question no.1.

Would you change the name of the Sam Maguire Cup?

deiseach,

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I wouldn't change any historical cups etc.. but discontinue the practice as of now. 

/Jim.

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 06, 2012, 11:16:25 AM

Quote from: deiseach on June 06, 2012, 10:50:09 AM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 06, 2012, 10:45:32 AM
3.  A lot of clubs have grounds, cups, names associated with past nationalists/republicans.  They are a product of those times when the GAA was exclusively nationalist.  Why not accept that times have changed and discontinue the practice?   If Ulster GAA wants to remain exclusively republican the go back to question no.1.

Would you change the name of the Sam Maguire Cup?

deiseach,

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I wouldn't change any historical cups etc.. but discontinue the practice as of now. 

/Jim.

Gotcha.

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 05, 2012, 06:50:41 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 05, 2012, 02:08:32 PM
From the same clowns who staged the hunger strike commemoration on GAA property a couple of years back. The fact that they're at the same sort of thing again shows the lack of will on the part of the GAA to deal with it.

Well that was at the Galbally Community Centre beside the GAA grounds but not part of the GAA club - as verified by a GAA investigation. But sure why let the truth get in the way of a good story eh!

Exactly, let's not.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.90 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.90)

Look at the picture posted by Maguire01 in reply #92.

Wally.

Handing out medals to u12 kids bearing a picture of a dead IRA activist was always going to provoke widespread controversy and those who did so were well aware of this.
In the lead-up to the GFA the overwhelming majority of people in this island proved they had no desire to prolong the Troubles and voted decisively for peace and reconciliation.
Does the right to freedom of expression take precedence over the rights of the overwhelming majority of Irish people?
IMO, it does not in this particular case.
An overriding consideration for me is that politics should be kept out of sport.
Another one is that children should not be exploited in any way for political ends.
If the organisers and their supporters want to honour the memory of Martin McCaughey, they should find more generally acceptable ways to do so.

What may or may not have happened in other places or at other times can be a matter for conjecture and debate in an appropriate arena but I am addressing what happened here.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 06, 2012, 11:23:32 AM

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 05, 2012, 06:50:41 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 05, 2012, 02:08:32 PM
From the same clowns who staged the hunger strike commemoration on GAA property a couple of years back. The fact that they're at the same sort of thing again shows the lack of will on the part of the GAA to deal with it.

Well that was at the Galbally Community Centre beside the GAA grounds but not part of the GAA club - as verified by a GAA investigation. But sure why let the truth get in the way of a good story eh!

Exactly, let's not.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.90 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.90)

Look at the picture posted by Maguire01 in reply #92.

Wally.

;D

QuoteHanding out medals to u12 kids bearing a picture of a dead IRA activist was always going to provoke widespread controversy and those who did so were well aware of this.

This is the nub of the matter. This was not something designed to advance the GAA.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 06, 2012, 11:23:32 AM

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 05, 2012, 06:50:41 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 05, 2012, 02:08:32 PM
From the same clowns who staged the hunger strike commemoration on GAA property a couple of years back. The fact that they're at the same sort of thing again shows the lack of will on the part of the GAA to deal with it.

Well that was at the Galbally Community Centre beside the GAA grounds but not part of the GAA club - as verified by a GAA investigation. But sure why let the truth get in the way of a good story eh!

Exactly, let's not.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.90 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.90)

Look at the picture posted by Maguire01 in reply #92.

Wally.

People standing on the pitch :o Shocker!! The GAA carried out it's own investigation and was satisfied that the club had absolutely nothing to do with this occurance. But saying as we are all getting het up about politics and the GAA, and things like the Hunger Stike rally in Casement was such a touchy subject for some, I assume the same people were all disgusted at this event which couldn't have possibly been more political and took place on GAA property? Or is it only some political events which get blood boiling?
(http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2011/May/Week3/15996363.jpg)

I suppose you were all on this board a few years back demanding action when FF held a selection convention in Portarlington GAA club (twice in the past decade actually)? Or when Tony Kileen was holding meetings in GAA property in County Clare? etc etc?

p.s.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 06, 2012, 11:23:32 AM
Wally.

Classy fella  ::)

QuoteI assume the same people were all disgusted at this event which couldn't have possibly been more political and took place on GAA property? Or is it only some political events which get blood boiling?

The issue here is whether the event is in the interests of the GAA generally, or whether a faction is acting in its own interest against the interests of the GAA generally.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 06, 2012, 11:55:02 AM

QuoteI assume the same people were all disgusted at this event which couldn't have possibly been more political and took place on GAA property? Or is it only some political events which get blood boiling?

The issue here is whether the event is in the interests of the GAA generally, or whether a faction is acting in its own interest against the interests of the GAA generally.

It seems to me that there was more anger at that visit to Croke Park than there curently is about medals at an U12 tournament in rural Tyrone. To my mind, that visit in Croke Park was very much a faction acting in it's own interests, who banned GAA reps from speaking their minds about it and in doing so, alienated most of the entire province of Ulster who refused to send reps to the event. Alienating most of a province was hardly in the interests of the GAA.

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 06, 2012, 12:04:34 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 06, 2012, 11:55:02 AM

QuoteI assume the same people were all disgusted at this event which couldn't have possibly been more political and took place on GAA property? Or is it only some political events which get blood boiling?

The issue here is whether the event is in the interests of the GAA generally, or whether a faction is acting in its own interest against the interests of the GAA generally.

It seems to me that there was more anger at that visit to Croke Park than there curently is about medals at an U12 tournament in rural Tyrone. To my mind, that visit in Croke Park was very much a faction acting in it's own interests, who banned GAA reps from speaking their minds about it and in doing so, alienated most of the entire province of Ulster who refused to send reps to the event. Alienating most of a province was hardly in the interests of the GAA.

So your solution is to reply in kind?

Did this U12 medal alienate almost an entire province in the way that this visit did? My point is, if the GAA and GAA supporters and members are prepared to allow clubs to be named after political people and support political events like that particular visit to Croke Park (something far more divisive to the national organisation than an U12 medal in Galbally), then they cannot pick and choose which political events are "an outrage" and which are not, depending on whether the political event mirrors their own political views. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Quotethen they cannot pick and choose which political events are "an outrage" and which are not, depending on whether the political event mirrors their own political views. In for a penny, in for a pound.

The GAA is an organisation devoted to the national interest of Ireland. It absolutely must choose between things that are in the interest of Ireland and those that are not.

Nally do you think these medals were a good idea?

Quote from: armaghniac on June 06, 2012, 12:25:03 PM

Quotethen they cannot pick and choose which political events are "an outrage" and which are not, depending on whether the political event mirrors their own political views. In for a penny, in for a pound.

The GAA is an organisation devoted to the national interest of Ireland. It absolutely must choose between things that are in the interest of Ireland and those that are not.

And alienating most of Ulster and banning freedom of speech on the visit was in the national interest? And are you now advocating the use of the GAA for political purposes?

Quote from: EC Unique on June 06, 2012, 12:26:52 PM
Nally do you think these medals were a good idea?

While the GAA is happy to allow itself be used for political events, then as far as I am concerned, the medals are not an issue.

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 06, 2012, 12:30:30 PM

Quote from: EC Unique on June 06, 2012, 12:26:52 PM
Nally do you think these medals were a good idea?

While the GAA is happy to allow itself be used for political events, then as far as I am concerned, the medals are not an issue.

2 wrongs do not make a right.

Quote from: EC Unique on June 06, 2012, 12:36:18 PM

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 06, 2012, 12:30:30 PM

Quote from: EC Unique on June 06, 2012, 12:26:52 PM
Nally do you think these medals were a good idea?

While the GAA is happy to allow itself be used for political events, then as far as I am concerned, the medals are not an issue.

2 wrongs do not make a right.

No more than one wrong is right, but I'm sure plenty of the folks here giving off about medals were happy to see Her Majesty grace Croke Park with her presence.

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 06, 2012, 12:04:34 PMAlienating most of a province was hardly in the interests of the GAA.

Indeed.

The issue of the medals and the complaint by the "mother" of one of the lads supposedly has served and is serving its purpose. There is now an open debate on the subject of medals, commemorations etc.

The GAA are very good at forcing change through but only when it suits them. The GAA is awash with politics - always has been. If the movers and shakers decide that it's time to get rid of the like of the Martin Mc Caughey tournament etc etc, then there'll be a vote at congress whenever, and Martin Mc Caughey etc will never be heard of again until someone decides it's ok to remember people like him in an "appropriate" way.

It's all part of the choreography.

I'd pay money to watch the 'movers and shakers' head over to Galbally to tell them that  :D

When they're finished there they can head up to Dungiven to take the hurls off the 'Lynch's and take all the jerseys and tracksuits and hoodies with his name on it off the kids...then get rid of all the ex-prisoners who play a role in their club...

Now everyone just go and wise the fck up and enjoy this overcast but enjoyable Wednesday...

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 06, 2012, 12:30:30 PM

Quote from: EC Unique on June 06, 2012, 12:26:52 PM
Nally do you think these medals were a good idea?

While the GAA is happy to allow itself be used for political events, then as far as I am concerned, the medals are not an issue.

Do you think the GAA should allocate hundreds of thousands of euro to a community outreach programme to win over unionists to the GAA?

Do you not think that money is wasted while medals with pictures of IRA men are being handed out?

/Jim.

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 06, 2012, 01:07:35 PM

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 06, 2012, 12:30:30 PM

Quote from: EC Unique on June 06, 2012, 12:26:52 PM
Nally do you think these medals were a good idea?

While the GAA is happy to allow itself be used for political events, then as far as I am concerned, the medals are not an issue.

Do you think the GAA should allocate hundreds of thousands of euro to a community outreach programme to win over unionists to the GAA?

Do you not think that money is wasted while medals with pictures of IRA men are being handed out?

/Jim.

If you are naive enough to believe a community outreach programme which you describe as being worth "hundreds of thousands of euros" is fatally compromised by medals at at U12 tournament in a small, near bottom of Division 2 club in rural Tyrone, then more fool you. I suspect that in a few days time, few people will be talking about this story. The programme meanwhile, will be ongoing.

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 01:17:09 PM
How do people feel about naming cups after priests, bishops, brothers etc or clubs named after saints or anything else to do with that "makey up bullshit" in the GAA?

Who referred to "makey up bullshit"?

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 06, 2012, 11:49:29 AM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 06, 2012, 11:23:32 AM

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 05, 2012, 06:50:41 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 05, 2012, 02:08:32 PM
From the same clowns who staged the hunger strike commemoration on GAA property a couple of years back. The fact that they're at the same sort of thing again shows the lack of will on the part of the GAA to deal with it.

Well that was at the Galbally Community Centre beside the GAA grounds but not part of the GAA club - as verified by a GAA investigation. But sure why let the truth get in the way of a good story eh!

Exactly, let's not.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.90 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.90)

Look at the picture posted by Maguire01 in reply #92.

Wally.

People standing on the pitch :o Shocker!! The GAA carried out it's own investigation and was satisfied that the club had absolutely nothing to do with this occurance. But saying as we are all getting het up about politics and the GAA, and things like the Hunger Stike rally in Casement was such a touchy subject for some, I assume the same people were all disgusted at this event which couldn't have possibly been more political and took place on GAA property? Or is it only some political events which get blood boiling?
(http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2011/May/Week3/15996363.jpg)

I suppose you were all on this board a few years back demanding action when FF held a selection convention in Portarlington GAA club (twice in the past decade actually)? Or when Tony Kileen was holding meetings in GAA property in County Clare? etc etc?

p.s.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 06, 2012, 11:23:32 AM
Wally.

Classy fella  ::)

If you look really closely at the picture from Galbally, you might be able to see the goal posts moving.

QuoteNally do you think these medals were a good idea?

EC Unique, you'll be quare and annoyed to learn that your club won the tournament!

Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 06, 2012, 01:44:05 PM

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 06, 2012, 11:49:29 AM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 06, 2012, 11:23:32 AM

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 05, 2012, 06:50:41 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 05, 2012, 02:08:32 PM
From the same clowns who staged the hunger strike commemoration on GAA property a couple of years back. The fact that they're at the same sort of thing again shows the lack of will on the part of the GAA to deal with it.

Well that was at the Galbally Community Centre beside the GAA grounds but not part of the GAA club - as verified by a GAA investigation. But sure why let the truth get in the way of a good story eh!

Exactly, let's not.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.90 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.90)

Look at the picture posted by Maguire01 in reply #92.

Wally.

People standing on the pitch :o Shocker!! The GAA carried out it's own investigation and was satisfied that the club had absolutely nothing to do with this occurance. But saying as we are all getting het up about politics and the GAA, and things like the Hunger Stike rally in Casement was such a touchy subject for some, I assume the same people were all disgusted at this event which couldn't have possibly been more political and took place on GAA property? Or is it only some political events which get blood boiling?
(http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2011/May/Week3/15996363.jpg)

I suppose you were all on this board a few years back demanding action when FF held a selection convention in Portarlington GAA club (twice in the past decade actually)? Or when Tony Kileen was holding meetings in GAA property in County Clare? etc etc?

p.s.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 06, 2012, 11:23:32 AM
Wally.

Classy fella  ::)

If you look really closely at the picture from Galbally, you might be able to see the goal posts moving.

Goalposts moving? Try pointing out double standards.

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 01:40:05 PM
I think that one was from mayogodhelpus.

Ah, Jaysus don't drag that fella into it. ;D

Quote from: EC Unique on June 06, 2012, 12:26:52 PM
Nally do you think these medals were a good idea?

EC, your club ground is named after a cardinal who openly supported a fascist regime in Spain. An individual who helped rise a force of Irish blueshirts under O'Duffy (him of the Clones terrace) to go kill republicans in Spain, including men from Tyrone.

Jesus, give me the men from Galbally any day!

Cardinal Joseph MacRory: "There is no room any longer for any doubts as to the issue at stake in the Spanish conflict . . . It is a question of whether Spain will remain as she has been so long, a Christian and Catholic land, or a Bolshevist and anti-God one."

The same man who lends his name to the biggest schools GAA competition in Ulster. Did you hear the one about the bishop and the school boy?

The hypocrisy in all this would choke a horse.

Quote from: sheamy on June 06, 2012, 01:53:27 PM

Quote from: EC Unique on June 06, 2012, 12:26:52 PM
Nally do you think these medals were a good idea?

EC, your club ground is named after a cardinal who openly supported a fascist regime in Spain. An individual who rose a force of Irish blueshirts under O'Duffy (him of the Clones terrace) to go kill republicans in Spain, including men from Tyrone.

Jesus, give me the men from Galbally any day!

Cardinal Joseph MacRory: "There is no room any longer for any doubts as to the issue at stake in the Spanish conflict . . . It is a question of whether Spain will remain as she has been so long, a Christian and Catholic land, or a Bolshevist and anti-God one."

The same man who lends his name to the biggest schools GAA competition in Ulster. Did you hear the one about the bishop and the school boy?

The hypocrisy in all this would choke a horse.

+1

QuoteIf you are naive enough to believe a community outreach programme which you describe as being worth "hundreds of thousands of euros" is fatally compromised by medals at at U12 tournament in a small, near bottom of Division 2 club in rural Tyrone, then more fool you. I suspect that in a few days time, few people will be talking about this story. The programme meanwhile, will be ongoing.

This may not fatally compromise the outreach programme, but it damages it and units of the GAA should not be damaging their own organisation.

QuoteHow do people feel about naming cups after priests, bishops, brothers etc or clubs named after saints or anything else to do with that "makey up bullshit" in the GAA?

There are entire towns named after Saints all over Europe. That doesn't justify medals for GAA tournaments in the style of Catholic medals with picture of the the Blessed Virgin.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 06, 2012, 02:01:09 PM

QuoteIf you are naive enough to believe a community outreach programme which you describe as being worth "hundreds of thousands of euros" is fatally compromised by medals at at U12 tournament in a small, near bottom of Division 2 club in rural Tyrone, then more fool you. I suspect that in a few days time, few people will be talking about this story. The programme meanwhile, will be ongoing.

This may not fatally compromise the outreach programme, but it damages it and units of the GAA should not be damaging their own organisation.

So I assume you were opposed to the "royal" visit to Croke Park last year then?

GAA clubs will always reflect the community in which they are established and this is as true in Galbally as it is in Ballinalee. If Galbally Pearse's think it's appropriate to honour Martin McCaughey with a tournament, then that's their business. They're not breaking any rules of the Association (as McCaughey is dead) so don't be squawking on here about "terrorists" when as has been pointed out, half the clubs in the country are named after "terrorists" of one sort or another.  If you want the Association to dictate to clubs who is a fit and proper person/"terrorist" then the rules will have to be changed via the usual processes. Good luck with that though. IMO there has to be tolerance shown in these matters. The community in Galbally obviously hold Martin McCaughey in very high esteem so it's not for us or the Association to question that. If there's a community in Portadown that want to form Billy Wright's CLG or the Lily Windsor Stars then we should give them every assistance to get up and running but we don't interfere with the internal running of their club and competitions.

For the gaelic to call one of their stands in Dublin after Hulk Hogan was an insult to men like Big Daddy who didn't put it on at all. John Cusack was brilliant in High Fidelity. His mother, Nancy Carolan, and da Dick are extremely proud.

I think if we want to start talking about renaming clubs and competitions that have bishops and priests named after them then we should start up a new thread.

I think the main part of the thread to date is whether it was a good call to have these medals handed out to the kids with a Republican on them? We have managed to get away off topic (as normally happens) so a simple poll with say if it was a good idea or bad.

Quote from: Ulick on June 06, 2012, 02:18:16 PM
If there's a community in Portadown that want to form Billy Wright's CLG or the Lily Windsor Stars then we should give them every assistance to get up and running but we don't interfere with the internal running of their club and competitions.

And if they want to fly the Butcher's Apron, we'll change the Clár Offiguil to "give them every assistance"

Quote from: deiseach on June 06, 2012, 02:25:40 PM
And if they want to fly the Butcher's Apron, we'll change the Clár Offiguil to "give them every assistance"

There's nothing to prevent them flaying the Butcher's Apron or any other flag, so no need to change an Clár Offiguil.

QuoteGAA clubs will always reflect the community in which they are established and this is as true in Galbally as it is in Ballinalee.

This is true and why the matter is complex. However, the choice of a tournament with naff medals as a form of memorial brings other clubs and people from other places in the equation. It is not enough to say that this is not prohibited by rule, why does a GAA club seek to actively promote disagreement?

Quote from: Ulick on June 06, 2012, 02:29:57 PM

Quote from: deiseach on June 06, 2012, 02:25:40 PM
And if they want to fly the Butcher's Apron, we'll change the Clár Offiguil to "give them every assistance"

There's nothing to prevent them flaying the Butcher's Apron or any other flag, so no need to change an Clár Offiguil.

Quote1.8 National Flag and Anthem (http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2010_Part1.pdf)
(a) The National Flag should be flown at games in
accordance with protocol.
(b) Where the National Anthem precedes a game,
teams shall stand to attention, facing the Flag, in a
respectful manner.

So you really think this means a club can fly whatever flag they like?

Quote from: deiseach on June 06, 2012, 02:35:00 PM

Quote from: Ulick on June 06, 2012, 02:29:57 PM

Quote from: deiseach on June 06, 2012, 02:25:40 PM
And if they want to fly the Butcher's Apron, we'll change the Clár Offiguil to "give them every assistance"

There's nothing to prevent them flaying the Butcher's Apron or any other flag, so no need to change an Clár Offiguil.

Quote1.8 National Flag and Anthem (http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2010_Part1.pdf)
(a) The National Flag should be flown at games in
accordance with protocol.
(b) Where the National Anthem precedes a game,
teams shall stand to attention, facing the Flag, in a
respectful manner.

So you really think this means a club can fly whatever flag they like?

Nothing in that preventing then from flying the Butcher's Apron.

Quote from: deiseach on June 06, 2012, 02:35:00 PM
So you really think this means a club can fly whatever flag they like?

When Roscommon played New York in Connacht championship a few years back, the star spangled banner was played and flown as well as Amhrán nabhFiann/Tricolour.  Never at Ruislip but somehow I doubt a similar protocol is in place.

/Jim.

Quote from: Ulick on June 06, 2012, 02:41:07 PM
Nothing in that preventing then from flying the Butcher's Apron.

Tosh. Remember the old Rule 42 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_42#Wording_of_the_rule)?

QuoteGrounds controlled by Association units shall not be used or permitted to be used, for horse racing, greyhound racing, or for field games other than those sanctioned by Central Council

There was "nothing in that" to prevent Central Council from simply sanctioning soccer and rugby as sports that can be played in Association units. Yet they didn't because the custom and practice was well established. It is equally well established with respect to the Butcher's Apron, and for you to suggest otherwise is totally disingenuous

Quote from: armaghniac on June 06, 2012, 02:33:50 PM

QuoteGAA clubs will always reflect the community in which they are established and this is as true in Galbally as it is in Ballinalee.

This is true and why the matter is complex. However, the choice of a tournament with naff medals as a form of memorial brings other clubs and people from other places in the equation. It is not enough to say that this is not prohibited by rule, why does a GAA club seek to actively promote disagreement?

You and others may say they are actively promoting disagreement but the community in Galbally would probably disagree with you. They elected McCaughey to represent them, he played for their club and county and he was killed by foreign soldiers. If they choose to honour such a man with tacky medals then that's their choice and others should leave them to it. If the Tyrone County Board organise a similar tournament then others might be able to make a debate on this but as it is, other clubs and individuals had the option not to play in the tournament.

Quote from: deiseach on June 06, 2012, 02:47:40 PM

Quote from: Ulick on June 06, 2012, 02:41:07 PM
Nothing in that preventing then from flying the Butcher's Apron.

Tosh. Remember the old Rule 42 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_42#Wording_of_the_rule)?

QuoteGrounds controlled by Association units shall not be used or permitted to be used, for horse racing, greyhound racing, or for field games other than those sanctioned by Central Council

There was "nothing in that" to prevent Central Council from simply sanctioning soccer and rugby as sports that can be played in Association units. Yet they didn't because the custom and practice was well established. It is equally well established with respect to the Butcher's Apron, and for you to suggest otherwise is totally disingenuous

deiseach, the only requirement is to fly the tricolour when protocol calls for it. There is nothing to stipulate what else can be flown. I've seen many different flags flown alongside the tricolour at matches including the stars and stripes in the US.

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 02:28:21 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2012, 02:24:07 PM
I think if we want to start talking about renaming clubs and competitions that have bishops and priests named after them then we should start up a new thread.

I think the main part of the thread to date is whether it was a good call to have these medals handed out to the kids with a Republican on them? We have managed to get away off topic (as normally happens) so a simple poll with say if it was a good idea or bad.

Do you oppose this?


(https://p.twimg.com/AukuExdCIAAAmn0.jpg:large)

I haven't opposed anything here, just asking if it was a good call or not. I've played and taken teams to many tournaments over the years, I only went to hurl or play football. It's only when you are older that you start to understand the politics of these things.

If a parent is opposed to what happened then she is allowed to question it.

Quote from: Ulick on June 06, 2012, 02:54:16 PM
deiseach, the only requirement is to fly the tricolour when protocol calls for it. There is nothing to stipulate what else can be flown. I've seen many different flags flown alongside the tricolour at matches including the stars and stripes in the US.

Then why was there a necessity to change the rule book with respect to Rule 42? And what if your notional Billy Wright club refuses to fly the Tricolour?

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:34:37 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2012, 10:31:35 PM

Quote from: orangeman on June 05, 2012, 10:26:11 PM

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 05, 2012, 08:18:59 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2012, 02:56:52 PM
In for a penny, in for a pound then. Pearse, Casement, Rossa, McDermotts, Wolfe Tones etc etc. Do away with the lot. You can't handpick which 'terrorists' you would like to include.

Actually, yes you can, people do and people will and for a good reason - they are entitled to disassociate themselves from those who take actions supposedly in their name, their belief or their views. For example, those that planted the car bomb which seen the murder of Ronan Kerr would likely see themselves in the same mould as those you list above yet almost everyone else whom aspires to a politically unified Ireland had reactions from distancing themselves to revulsion - including Sinn Fein, whom have a high proportion of their membership that didn't see the same tactics during the troubles to be as much of a problem. Same goes for the killing of Stephen Carroll and the two sappers at Massereene, seemingly unacceptable these days in the eyes of many prominent republicans not associated with dissident or fringe groups but would have been anything but during the 70's and 80's. Take a flip side to "themmuns" and Remembrance Sunday services - every year Loyalist paramilitaries carry out their own such services in which they remember their 'volunteers' whom lost their lives during the troubles putting them on the same level as those who have fought and died in the British armed forces. Most other unionists OTOH find this idea disgraceful, repulsed at the thought of the likes of George Seawright and Billy Wright being mentioned in the same service as like the fodder whom were sent into the human mincing machines in the trenches in World War I.

One thing about the likes of those whom were behind the Easter Rising is that first no one here is likely to have any living memory of when they were still alive, therefore their legacy is through their writings and recordings by others. It can be easy to romanticise when you don't be there in the moment but that's nothing anyone can do about here. In any case, at least they actually put their heads on the line alongside things like helping Gaelic cultural movements. It's dangerous to assume what those no longer with us would have thought about things beyond their death, but I would like to think that Clarke, Connolly, Pearse etc. would not have been too keen on the idea of proxy bombing.

One in, all in? Nope, it's not quite as simple as that. Michael Stone's epic fail getting stuck in a door at Stormont in 2006 while claiming to defend the union of the UK certainly doesn't mean that he is represents all northerner that regard themselves as unionists.

So no evil actions were committed back then ? Nothing on a par with what went on in the troubles ? Nothing ?

So you can't see the difference between acts 100 years ago and a couple of years ago - the deeds might be the same but I can't imagine many families are dealing with their losses 100 years ago, losses they would be reminded of every day if they had to drive past Billy Wright Memorial Park or Sean Kelly Park? I know you're not that dumb despite your best efforts to make yourself look that way.

I can indeed but do you have a suitable cut off date ?

Joining this thread a bit late here............... but to the above point, Republicanism has no cut off date mucker....... never will. Follow the beliefs never the leader.

Quote from: sheamy on June 06, 2012, 10:07:31 AM

Quote from: Bingo on June 06, 2012, 10:05:20 AM
Will one of the GAA clubs in Derry or Lurgan get some dissidents dressed in combat year and balaclava in for the next underage medal presentation?

saying that those pricks burn down GAA clubs in Derry City, I'd doubt it.

ohhhhhhhhhhhh................................................................................saying that the person 'supposedly' behind this was seen elsewhere at the time doesnt matter; sure don't let truth get in the way of a good story and all that craic.

religious and social, yes. Don't forget political as well.

Yes, I agree it's a slippery slope. In fact, that is exactly the point of my post i.e the hypocrisy of this criticism in a country and organisation jam packed full of politicisation.

Personally, I wouldn't have commissioned those medals but that's only because they are tacky. However, I'd not condemn anyone for doing so either.

As Nally said, it's a small rural club somewhere among the bushes in Tyrone. Probably impossible to actually find it. People need to get a life and let communities run their own affairs.

A few pointers lads...........

It is very degrading reading through the posts that some people label Protestants as 'Prods'. We all know that this is a jibe similar in the way as 'Taig' is used as a Catholic, so please be mindful and be courteous. If i had the choice to remove all different forms of Christianity I would as it is totally decisive.

There is a general conscience on certain ideological threads that the same people take certain sides; if you read through them all it is clearly to be seen. This thread has turned into another Republican bashing thread.

I was at the Martin McCaughey tournament 2 years ago with my club and found the whole day a fantastic experience where teams from all over Ulster came along and enjoyed a feast of football. Galbally were absolutely fantastic hosts and I can mind a fella who gave a speech to everyone present about the work Martin did in the local club and community. This club set up this competition and there success in doing so was clear to be seen with teams from all over Ulster taking part, and have nothing but praise for the way it was run that day.

QuoteIt is very degrading reading through the posts that some people label Protestants as 'Prods'. . We all know that this is a jibe similar in the way as 'Taig' is used as a Catholic

I dont think anyone cares too much about this - taig would be a more offensive effort, akin to "black b" etc

Quote from: theticklemister on June 06, 2012, 03:42:07 PM
A few pointers lads...........

It is very degrading reading through the posts that some people label Protestants as 'Prods'. We all know that this is a jibe similar in the way as 'Taig' is used as a Catholic, so please be mindful and be courteous. If i had the choice to remove all different forms of Christianity I would as it is totally decisive.

There is a general conscience on certain ideological threads that the same people take certain sides; if you read through them all it is clearly to be seen. This thread has turned into another Republican bashing thread.

I was at the Martin McCaughey tournament 2 years ago with my club and found the whole day a fantastic experience where teams from all over Ulster came along and enjoyed a feast of football. Galbally were absolutely fantastic hosts and I can mind a fella who gave a speech to everyone present about the work Martin did in the local club and community. This club set up this competition and there success in doing so was clear to be seen with teams from all over Ulster taking part, and have nothing but praise for the way it was run that day.

Prods use the word prods (I know cause I've been teaching them for years!!), you'll never hear too many of them say any different.

I don't think that anyone will have a dig at Galbally for running what seems to be a great tournament, as we all know this really makes the summers for kids. It's whether it is ok for running a competition in the name of a recent Republican. If you were a 'prod' ;) from a nearby village which lost a love one to a republican, you'd have something to say about the GAA's policy of inclusiveness.

Quote from: theticklemister on June 06, 2012, 03:42:07 PM
It is very degrading reading through the posts that some people label Protestants as 'Prods'. We all know that this is a jibe similar in the way as 'Taig' is used as a Catholic, so please be mindful and be courteous. If i had the choice to remove all different forms of Christianity I would as it is totally decisive.

I have many Prod friends

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 06, 2012, 04:18:36 PM

Quote from: sheamy on June 06, 2012, 03:41:42 PM
religious and social, yes. Don't forget political as well.

Yes, I agree it's a slippery slope. In fact, that is exactly the point of my post i.e the hypocrisy of this criticism in a country and organisation jam packed full of politicisation.

Of course there are many aspects of life not only in Ireland but around the world that are politicised, but there is a difference between the general politics of everyday activities e.g. politicking at the workplace, community groups, religious congregations etc. and party politics. The GAA has a clear rule against the latter.

Quote from: sheamy on June 06, 2012, 03:41:42 PMPersonally, I wouldn't have commissioned those medals but that's only because they are tacky. However, I'd not condemn anyone for doing so either.

As Nally said, it's a small rural club somewhere among the bushes in Tyrone. Probably impossible to actually find it. People need to get a life and let communities run their own affairs.

First off, Galbally is hardly a small club. It's membership numbers in 2011 according to the report in the last Tyrone County Convention was 748, the biggest in the county. Bigger than Errigal Ciaran, bigger than Carrickmore, bigger than Omagh, bigger than Ardboe etc. Also local communities are free to run their own local affairs - what they are not entitled to do is act in a manner which can bring the GAA or any other group/person e.g. sponsors into disrepute. And no, it's not impossible to find.

right, I'll tell you what you do. Since you know how to find it (but are missing a sense of humour), go to Galbally and tell them yourself that they are bringing the GAA into disrepute. If you don't want to do that, then put your name to a letter to them.

You seem to completely neglect the fact that here we have a club who choose to commemorate, not an republican volunteer, but someone who seemingly was a passionate and hard working club member, and also happened to be a republican volunteer. You will not find one rule in the GAA rulebook against that. There was no rally and no political party involvement. The fact that the club crest bears an image of Padraig Pearse must surely sit very uncomfortably with you...

Galbally was a hell of a place to find I mind well!!! They were doing up the other pitch the last time I was down; how is the set up now? Some club set up altogether.lovely people too.

Quote from: raff on June 06, 2012, 01:45:46 PM

QuoteNally do you think these medals were a good idea?

EC Unique, you'll be quare and annoyed to learn that your club won the tournament!

Why?

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 02:28:21 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2012, 02:24:07 PM
I think if we want to start talking about renaming clubs and competitions that have bishops and priests named after them then we should start up a new thread.

I think the main part of the thread to date is whether it was a good call to have these medals handed out to the kids with a Republican on them? We have managed to get away off topic (as normally happens) so a simple poll with say if it was a good idea or bad.

Do you oppose this?


(https://p.twimg.com/AukuExdCIAAAmn0.jpg:large)

I oppose the Russian keeper borrowing that for a week from the foyer of our school and not returning it.

Any chance of you doing the right thing and dropping it back up?

Although it does look an awful lot better that it did when it left.

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 01:17:09 PM
How do people feel about naming cups after priests, bishops, brothers etc or clubs named after saints or anything else to do with that "makey up bullshit" in the GAA?

Have an early night.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 06, 2012, 09:37:58 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 01:17:09 PM
How do people feel about naming cups after priests, bishops, brothers etc or clubs named after saints or anything else to do with that "makey up bullshit" in the GAA?

Have an early night.

One fight at a time  ;)

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 09:36:31 PM
This is kept in a school?

I do despair.

BTW, the Russian goalkeeper will be happy tonight after we hate the Huns.

Was kept in a school. Your da walked past it every morning for years. Should be returned.

Good, but irrelevant news regarding tonight's result.

Can't make out the name or image on that trophy. What is the competition for?

I can make out:

always there when the sports centre closes, when schools stop supporting extracurricular sports with their students, when parents need a baby sitting service, a wake, a wedding reception, a hall for a silver jubilee.

He who has not sinned....................................

Ah mind a few songs where Joe McKelvey is mentioned, in 'Take it down from the Mast'.......'.ye murdered our brave Liam and Roryn you butchered young Richard and Joe.....'

The other one then is a lovely ballad called 'Belfast Graves' .....' Joe McKelvey through death's gate......'

I don't know any specific ballad about Joe McKelvey however.

For the love of Gawd can someone make out a list of who we can commemorate.

The local club want to name a trophy after a fella (RIP) who did sterling work for the club. We're all in agreement. But years ago he robbed the PO in the neighbouring village and shot their labrador. They're up in arms about it. We want to forge ahead as the committee are 100% behind it. We've decided to have a poll in the hut tomorrow.

Who can we commemorate is the theme:

Burglar.
Whore.
Freedom Fighter/Rebel/Terrorist/Murderer (this section has been broken down into year of conviction 1940-1950, 50-60 etc/reason for conviction - attempted murder, murder, stockpiling manure/grave oration)
Wino.
Pyromaniac.
Crooked doctor.
Ordinary man who took secrets to grave.
Tight b**tard in the shop.
Dodgy priest though never proven.
Man who shot a man over land.

Let Galbally do what they want. If parents don't like it - ask for a meeting with club reps and talk it over. If still not satified, head to Kildress or Greencastle, or be happy that your reservations were made known and move on to U14. Until the GAA HQ (congress?) come out and say no commemorations of anyone convicted (or not in many cases - Brigid got away with it for years) of 'terrorist'offences or known to be a member or a paramilitary organisation post 1968 (war heroes allowed) then Galbally can do what they want if it's OK with the vast majority of club members.

Up Sir Roger Casement and his journals.

On another note as ye may know GAA is not big in Derry City where I'm from but there are a lot of soccer summer tournaments named after local republicans

Pat Harkin (Derry City reserves take part in this)
Bronco Bradley

There is also a huge soccer tournament named after Oscar Traynor.

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 11:40:32 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodyrsquos-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-14521633.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodyrsquos-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-14521633.html)

Interesting, as was the headline below (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/nurses-caught-having-sex-in-parked-cars-16163782.html)

Quote from: ONeill on June 06, 2012, 11:45:33 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 11:40:32 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodyrsquos-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-14521633.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodyrsquos-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-14521633.html)

Interesting, as was the headline below (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/nurses-caught-having-sex-in-parked-cars-16163782.html)

As was the indignant peeping tom neighbour's name: Kelly Peurvor.

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 11:40:32 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodyrsquos-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-14521633.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodyrsquos-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-14521633.html)

Would the Belfast Tele get upset if the Ulster Council did away with all the individual competitions named there and rolled it all into one big Terrorist/Freedom Fighter Supporting Club of the Year? The trophy could be made of the melted bars from a H Block cell and gets awarded accompanied by a volley of shots from a masked colour party. No?

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 01:40:05 PM
I think that one was from mayogodhelpus.

Mayo's own ground is named after an Archbishop. Castlebar have taken the name Mitchels. Ballina have named their ground in honour of James Stephens. My own club's ground i Dt. Joseph's Park. I don't think he has any issue. Also wasn't Patrick Sarsfield a bit of a murdering general too. 3 clubs in Mayo use him in their name. I''m sure mghu has no problem hs but don't quote me!

I think its great that Galbally have honored a great Gael and Republican like Martin McGaughey who was murdered in cold blood by the SAS.Think more clubs should do likewise as it happened in the past and did the GAA no harm whatsoever.As for all this nonsense regarding reaching out to Rugby players etc;what shall we do next start playing Irelands Call before games.The GAA has a very long and proud tradition that has lasted over 100 years so if it isn't broke don't try and fix it.I played for a club in the 70's and there were 5 Prods on the team who enjoyed the game and respected the GAA even if they didn't agree with everything it stood for.

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 08:41:49 AM
I played for a club in the 70's and there were 5 Prods on the team who enjoyed the game and respected the GAA even if they didn't agree with everything it stood for.

Would they have played in tournaments dedicated to IRA men?
I have plenty of respect for the GAA, and have attended games - but I wouldnt go to a tournament like this.

Not sure if still the case but a few years back the Honorary President of the hurling team in Strabane was Pearse McCauley.

Quote from: nifan on June 07, 2012, 08:51:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 08:41:49 AM
I played for a club in the 70's and there were 5 Prods on the team who enjoyed the game and respected the GAA even if they didn't agree with everything it stood for.

Would they have played in tournaments dedicated to IRA men?
I have plenty of respect for the GAA, and have attended games - but I wouldnt go to a tournament like this.

Don't know answer to that but played with Republicans and with family members of IRA prisoners.

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 09:09:59 AM

Quote from: nifan on June 07, 2012, 08:51:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 08:41:49 AM
I played for a club in the 70's and there were 5 Prods on the team who enjoyed the game and respected the GAA even if they didn't agree with everything it stood for.

Would they have played in tournaments dedicated to IRA men?
I have plenty of respect for the GAA, and have attended games - but I wouldnt go to a tournament like this.

Don't know answer to that but played with Republicans and with family members of IRA prisoners.

I would see that as different. They where playing the game, it was not in honour of them.

Hardstation, you have a fan !!!!

You posted a 2 year old link to a Belfast Telegraph article which encourages people to hate the GAA.  Well Willie Frazer has picked it up, and put it on his website.

This was posted in the Telegraph 2 years ago, but on here 2 days ago.  Wullie is trolling this site.  Magic.

I dont think he posts on this site, because you would spot the spelling mistakes and bad grammar a mile off.

Quote from: nifan on June 07, 2012, 09:48:42 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 09:09:59 AM

Quote from: nifan on June 07, 2012, 08:51:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 08:41:49 AM
I played for a club in the 70's and there were 5 Prods on the team who enjoyed the game and respected the GAA even if they didn't agree with everything it stood for.

Would they have played in tournaments dedicated to IRA men?
I have plenty of respect for the GAA, and have attended games - but I wouldnt go to a tournament like this.

Don't know answer to that but played with Republicans and with family members of IRA prisoners.

I would see that as different. They where playing the game, it was not in honour of them.

Well I think they either have to play in it our leave that's up to them,I have friends who play soccer in the Amateur League in Belfast they play for the Border Regiment Cup,some think its great when they win this trophy but i know others who loved winning it as part of their team but afterwards put the medal in the bin because as far as they were concerned the cup was named after a shower of murdering ########. The NIAFL are not going to change the name on the cup because it offends some people. Unionists who wish to play GAA will have to learn to live with things they dislike about the GAA  or just stick to the Rugby.

Quote from: Feckitt on June 07, 2012, 10:27:13 AM
I dont think he posts on this site, because you would spot the spelling mistakes and bad grammar a mile off.

Hmmm.

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 11:11:23 AM

Quote from: nifan on June 07, 2012, 09:48:42 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 09:09:59 AM

Quote from: nifan on June 07, 2012, 08:51:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 08:41:49 AM
I played for a club in the 70's and there were 5 Prods on the team who enjoyed the game and respected the GAA even if they didn't agree with everything it stood for.

Would they have played in tournaments dedicated to IRA men?
I have plenty of respect for the GAA, and have attended games - but I wouldnt go to a tournament like this.

Don't know answer to that but played with Republicans and with family members of IRA prisoners.

I would see that as different. They where playing the game, it was not in honour of them.

Well I think they either have to play in it our leave that's up to them,I have friends who play soccer in the Amateur League in Belfast they play for the Border Regiment Cup,some think its great when they win this trophy but i know others who loved winning it as part of their team but afterwards put the medal in the bin because as far as they were concerned the cup was named after a shower of murdering ########. The NIAFL are not going to change the name on the cup because it offends some people. Unionists who wish to play GAA will have to learn to live with things they dislike about the GAA  or just stick to the Rugby.

Can you see that the unionist see the IRA, as you have put it 'a shower of murdering ########.' who shot people in the back or when they opened the door?

Do we move on and be positive or do we continue to have grievances with the 'others'

A fair percentage of our (Nordies) wages is paid by the British Government, the same British Government that has murdered innocent civilians over the years. We still take the money and vote during election time for Members of the British Parliament!!

We don't throw the money in the bin when they give us it

QuoteA fair percentage of our (Nordies) wages is paid by the British Government, the same British Government that has murdered innocent civilians over the years. We still take the money and vote during election time for Members of the British Parliament!!

We don't throw the money in the bin when they give us it

What alternative is there? Other than up sticks and 'move to Ireland if we don't like it'.  ::)

Taken straight from the boul' Wullie's rant on his webpage . . .

Quote
This is a concerning development as there would be many within British Protestant and British Catholic communities that would view the GAA as little more than a branch of the IRA that is little different than Franco's fascist regime when he set up football teams in every village in Spain.

I would call on all within the British Protestant and British Catholic communities to keep an open mind regarding the GAA but never lose sight of the fact that down through the generations they have supported both financially and logistically the development and sustaining of various groups of Irish Republican terrorist murder gangs.

Jesus wept!!

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 09:09:59 AM

Quote from: nifan on June 07, 2012, 08:51:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 08:41:49 AM
I played for a club in the 70's and there were 5 Prods on the team who enjoyed the game and respected the GAA even if they didn't agree with everything it stood for.

Would they have played in tournaments dedicated to IRA men?
I have plenty of respect for the GAA, and have attended games - but I wouldnt go to a tournament like this.

Don't know answer to that but played with Republicans and with family members of IRA prisoners.

Glens Abu- ye didn't by any chance play in the sevens blitz in Castlereagh prison ???

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 11:59:12 AM
We don't throw the money in the bin when they give us it

We pay our taxes so why the f**k should we bin it?

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 07, 2012, 12:40:37 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 11:59:12 AM
We don't throw the money in the bin when they give us it

We pay our taxes so why the f**k should we bin it?

The North's taxes only cover about less than 4/5ths of is public expenditure every year, so no matter what way you try to dress it Westminster and British taxes currently bankroll the North's public service and grants etc. Not that it bothers me, we couldn't bleed them dry enough.

Quote from: theticklemister on June 07, 2012, 12:23:11 PM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 09:09:59 AM

Quote from: nifan on June 07, 2012, 08:51:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 08:41:49 AM
I played for a club in the 70's and there were 5 Prods on the team who enjoyed the game and respected the GAA even if they didn't agree with everything it stood for.

Would they have played in tournaments dedicated to IRA men?
I have plenty of respect for the GAA, and have attended games - but I wouldnt go to a tournament like this.

Don't know answer to that but played with Republicans and with family members of IRA prisoners.

Glens Abu- ye didn't by any chance play in the sevens blitz in Castlereagh prison ???

Was never in Castlereagh prison,wherever that is.

Quote from: fitzroyalty on June 07, 2012, 12:02:18 PM

QuoteA fair percentage of our (Nordies) wages is paid by the British Government, the same British Government that has murdered innocent civilians over the years. We still take the money and vote during election time for Members of the British Parliament!!

We don't throw the money in the bin when they give us it

What alternative is there? Other than up sticks and 'move to Ireland if we don't like it'.  ::)

There is none, by fcuk we work hard enough for the money, but can we not fooking get on with each other and be sensible?

This thread has and always will be littered with the examples of other shite that is not relevant to the core subject.

It's a simple thread, good idea or not? That's all.

If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 11:59:12 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 11:11:23 AM

Quote from: nifan on June 07, 2012, 09:48:42 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 09:09:59 AM

Quote from: nifan on June 07, 2012, 08:51:35 AM

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 08:41:49 AM
I played for a club in the 70's and there were 5 Prods on the team who enjoyed the game and respected the GAA even if they didn't agree with everything it stood for.

Would they have played in tournaments dedicated to IRA men?
I have plenty of respect for the GAA, and have attended games - but I wouldnt go to a tournament like this.

Don't know answer to that but played with Republicans and with family members of IRA prisoners.

I would see that as different. They where playing the game, it was not in honour of them.

Well I think they either have to play in it our leave that's up to them,I have friends who play soccer in the Amateur League in Belfast they play for the Border Regiment Cup,some think its great when they win this trophy but i know others who loved winning it as part of their team but afterwards put the medal in the bin because as far as they were concerned the cup was named after a shower of murdering ########. The NIAFL are not going to change the name on the cup because it offends some people. Unionists who wish to play GAA will have to learn to live with things they dislike about the GAA  or just stick to the Rugby.

Can you see that the unionist see the IRA, as you have put it 'a shower of murdering ########.' who shot people in the back or when they opened the door?
Do we move on and be positive or do we continue to have grievances with the 'others'

A fair percentage of our (Nordies) wages is paid by the British Government, the same British Government that has murdered innocent civilians over the years. We still take the money and vote during election time for Members of the British Parliament!!

We don't throw the money in the bin when they give us it

Of course I do,so we just scrap 100 years of GAA tradition to please them don't think so.If they don't like the GAA faults and all let them stick to the Rugger.When I was telling about the people who binned the medals I was trying to explain that's what your friends could do if they are lucky enough to play in and win a competition called after an IRA volunteer,as it seems to be bugging you bigtime.   

Nothing bugging me at all, I'm grand, I have played in tournaments for dead republicans, makes no difference to me I only want to hurl/football.

We have been going 100 years and will continue to go I'm sure for another 100 years, where we are now in terms of how we set out is great. I'm sure the GAA will continue to develop and change for the better, dont you think?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 01:21:49 PM
Nothing bugging me at all, I'm grand, I have played in tournaments for dead republicans, makes no difference to me I only want to hurl/football.

We have been going 100 years and will continue to go I'm sure for another 100 years, where we are now in terms of how we set out is great. I'm sure the GAA will continue to develop and change for the better, dont you think?

Yes but as long as the club or community from which it exists are happy with the changes.I am sure the Galbally club and surrounding community would be very unhappy if they were told to change the name of the U 12 competition because one parent was unhappy and we wanted to please Unionist people who someday might or mightnot play the  games.

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 01:52:37 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 01:21:49 PM
Nothing bugging me at all, I'm grand, I have played in tournaments for dead republicans, makes no difference to me I only want to hurl/football.

We have been going 100 years and will continue to go I'm sure for another 100 years, where we are now in terms of how we set out is great. I'm sure the GAA will continue to develop and change for the better, dont you think?

Yes but as long as the club or community from which it exists are happy with the changes.I am sure the Galbally club and surrounding community would be very unhappy if they were told to change the name of the U 12 competition because one parent was unhappy and we wanted to please Unionist people who someday might or mightnot play the  games.

Its a decent topic, I try not and get involved with politics, I don't have and was never brought up with a strong view on politics, was always encouraged to find out for yourself and make a judgement. I would class myself as a GAA man (whatever that means) and i love the way the GAA (my club) looked after us during the height of the troubles, idle hands and all that.

I have moved out of West Belfast a right few years and live in a mixed enough area so my dealings with the rugby fraternity is more frequent now than before. They are mad keen to have coaches come in a take training ball handling and kicking skills. I was just pointing out (in my view) that it may be better to look at what the headlines are going to say rather than how good a tournament is. Cnuts like Willie distort things for the uneducated mongrels that feed off bad press for the GAA. Before you know it a club hall will get burned down or glass scattered all over the pitches FFS

Quote from: glens abu on June 07, 2012, 01:52:37 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 01:21:49 PM
Nothing bugging me at all, I'm grand, I have played in tournaments for dead republicans, makes no difference to me I only want to hurl/football.

We have been going 100 years and will continue to go I'm sure for another 100 years, where we are now in terms of how we set out is great. I'm sure the GAA will continue to develop and change for the better, dont you think?

Yes but as long as the club or community from which it exists are happy with the changes.I am sure the Galbally club and surrounding community would be very unhappy if they were told to change the name of the U 12 competition because one parent was unhappy and we wanted to please Unionist people who someday might or mightnot play the  games.

But Galbally aren't a single entity. They are a unit of the GAA, which covers the length and breadth of the country. So they are as responsible for maintaining the image of the GAA as the top brass in Croke Park.
It all comes down to what the GAA as an organisation deems to be acceptable. There are obviously very differing views. Maybe it is time to have some more defined rules about who/what it is acceptable to have medals/cups/competitions/grounds dedicated to.

The Tipp SHC cup is called the Dan Breen cup. I'm sure he killed an RIC man back in 1919.

Quote from: ONeill on June 06, 2012, 11:14:23 PM
Up Sir Roger Casement and his journals.

How appropriate, if the journals are to be believed

Quote from: trileacman on June 07, 2012, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 07, 2012, 12:40:37 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 11:59:12 AM
We don't throw the money in the bin when they give us it

We pay our taxes so why the f**k should we bin it?

The North's taxes only cover about less than 4/5ths of is public expenditure every year, so no matter what way you try to dress it Westminster and British taxes currently bankroll the North's public service and grants etc. Not that it bothers me, we couldn't bleed them dry enough.

Devolution for England, I'm sick of paying for you lot  ;)

Quote from: Nally Stand on June 07, 2012, 12:40:37 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 11:59:12 AM
We don't throw the money in the bin when they give us it

We pay our taxes so why the f**k should we bin it?

And the Ministry of Defence are thankful of it.

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 05, 2012, 09:12:45 PM
Evil Genius is having a good snigger, he starts this, this sits back whilst GAA MEN argue about it !

If there is/was a Billy Wright memorial soccer tournament, you can be sure the BBC website wont have a story on it.

if there was a billy king rat memorial soccer tournament the bbc would televise it! why would anyone care what portadown club do inside their own grounds? they're not a government organisation.
  yet again the bbc throw a grenade into the gaa then walk away.. will fat nolan return to the story? NO! you bet you ass he wont. we had the exact same thing with the prod fermanagh hurler (i cant think of his name) he ran to the papers to complain that he was a victim of sectarian abuse. the bbc in the shape of dunsieth (gaa hater) ran the story for a week. we had all the "IRA at play" crew queued up on the phones blah blah.. that guy had his problem solved in minutes at club level and ended up sitting beside the president of our association at an all ireland final. the bbc never returned to the story to inform the listeners of the outcome. the bbc always do something like this at this time of the year just the same time when their lack of proper coverage of the championship comes under scrutiny. ie last week we had BMX biking instead of fermanagh v down.
  its easy to forget that linfield fc were selling UVF Cd's and various paramilitary trappings in their shop at Windsor park at the same time the fans were slagging off Neil Lennon for being playing for Celtic/being catholic/ what ever else they could think of.. the home of norn iron soccer.. "we want catholics to support our wee country"
why doesn't EG contact the bbc to enquire as to the outcome of this complaint. they wouldn't know what he was talking about is the simple answer. this is a throw away story the woman wont go on air and doesn't want to be named and wont go to her club rep so she should shut her mouth. shes another one of the growing number of eejits who think that clubs exist to make sure their kids get football but don't want to get involved and criticise those who give up their free time to offer their kids sport. nobody can change the gaa from without. if you want to change it you must do it from within.

Any of you lads heading to this gig ? Free tickets - the grub is bound to be good if nothing else. The GAA are bound to get a good few tickets.


Stormont to host Diamond Jubilee party for 10,000Ten thousand people are to be invited to a huge Diamond Jubilee party when the Queen visits Belfast.

The event will be held in the grounds of Parliament Buildings, Stormont, on 27 June, the Northern Ireland Office has announced.

Representatives from youth organisations, the emergency services, government departments, local councils, health trusts, ex-service associations as well as education and library boards are also being invited. It would nice to be there to see Marty and Lizzy exchange pleasantries in another ground breaking move.

Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly, including the First Minister Peter Robinson and the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, are also expected to be at Stormont as well that day.

There is intense speculation that Mr McGuinness, the Sinn Fein MP and former IRA commander in Londonderry, will shake hands with the Queen.

Details on how the 10,000 free tickets are to be distributed to the public will be released soon.

The Queen is due to arrive in Northern Ireland on 26 June with plans to visit Co Fermanagh.

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 09:47:34 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2012, 09:41:30 AM
Ok then, the general consensus is that we continue to have tournaments remembering freedom fighters and never worry what others think? Those who'd complain about these things would normally complain about anything the GAA would do anyway.

By doing this though I think we will never be able to include everybody on the island into GAA. That probably sits better with most

Milltown, the point is that the GAA carries a lot more political baggage than that tournament in Galbally.

While we continue to play Amhran na bhFiann, fly a tricolour, have clubs and grounds named after republicans, we are never going to be all inclusive. People are kidding themselves that we will suddenly become all inclusive if we stop honouring any more republicans but retain the memory of the ones we already honour.

Where is all this clamour coming from to make the GAA non Irish and all-inclusive? Surely the whole rasion d'etre of the GAA is about promoting an Irish cultural and sporting identity, albeit one that is non party political. You can't seperate the GAA from an Irish identity and it is the one organisation that gave northern nationalists a sense of their Irishness from the dark days of partition, gerrymandering and discrimination through to the present. We still live in a society that doesn't quite believe in parity of esteem, look at Craigavon Borough Council, and one that promotes British idenity and culture at every cahnce, the various jubilees, weddings, orange marches, flags on state buildings etc...The GAA ground is one of the few places you can go as a nationalist and sing your national anthem and respect the flag you hold dear, official NI doesn't give you any recognition. So why would we take this part of our identity and culture away? We are forced to grit our teeth and suck it up in the face of all this British celebration. I am all for attracting Protestants to our games but not at the expense of our own identity.

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 08, 2012, 02:36:30 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 09:47:34 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2012, 09:41:30 AM
Ok then, the general consensus is that we continue to have tournaments remembering freedom fighters and never worry what others think? Those who'd complain about these things would normally complain about anything the GAA would do anyway.

By doing this though I think we will never be able to include everybody on the island into GAA. That probably sits better with most

Milltown, the point is that the GAA carries a lot more political baggage than that tournament in Galbally.

While we continue to play Amhran na bhFiann, fly a tricolour, have clubs and grounds named after republicans, we are never going to be all inclusive. People are kidding themselves that we will suddenly become all inclusive if we stop honouring any more republicans but retain the memory of the ones we already honour.

Where is all this clamour coming from to make the GAA non Irish and all-inclusive? Surely the whole rasion d'etre of the GAA is about promoting an Irish cultural and sporting identity, albeit one that is non party political. You can't seperate the GAA from an Irish identity and it is the one organisation that gave northern nationalists a sense of their Irishness from the dark days of partition, gerrymandering and discrimination through to the present. We still live in a society that doesn't quite believe in parity of esteem, look at Craigavon Borough Council, and one that promotes British idenity and culture at every cahnce, the various jubilees, weddings, orange marches, flags on state buildings etc...The GAA ground is one of the few places you can go as a nationalist and sing your national anthem and respect the flag you hold dear, official NI doesn't give you any recognition. So why would we take this part of our identity and culture away? We are forced to grit our teeth and suck it up in the face of all this British celebration. I am all for attracting Protestants to our games but not at the expense of our own identity.

Where do you think it's emanating from ?.

Ulster council seem to be doing a great job at pushing boundaries and breaking new ground. But who's behind those efforts ?.

What I really meant there, was I hear no such clamour from within the GAA, infact I don't really hear it at all.

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 08, 2012, 02:51:57 PM
What I really meant there, was I hear no such clamour from within the GAA, infact I don't really hear it at all.

I think there's not a clamour for change but Ulster council are definitely breaking new ground and trying to make progress with Unionists.

I thought our former president, Nicky Brennan instituted a programme of reaching out to "Protestants" as I distinctly remember he put it. Does anyone know how that went?

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 08, 2012, 02:36:30 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 09:47:34 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2012, 09:41:30 AM
Ok then, the general consensus is that we continue to have tournaments remembering freedom fighters and never worry what others think? Those who'd complain about these things would normally complain about anything the GAA would do anyway.

By doing this though I think we will never be able to include everybody on the island into GAA. That probably sits better with most

Milltown, the point is that the GAA carries a lot more political baggage than that tournament in Galbally.

While we continue to play Amhran na bhFiann, fly a tricolour, have clubs and grounds named after republicans, we are never going to be all inclusive. People are kidding themselves that we will suddenly become all inclusive if we stop honouring any more republicans but retain the memory of the ones we already honour.

Where is all this clamour coming from to make the GAA non Irish and all-inclusive? Surely the whole rasion d'etre of the GAA is about promoting an Irish cultural and sporting identity, albeit one that is non party political. You can't seperate the GAA from an Irish identity and it is the one organisation that gave northern nationalists a sense of their Irishness from the dark days of partition, gerrymandering and discrimination through to the present. We still live in a society that doesn't quite believe in parity of esteem, look at Craigavon Borough Council, and one that promotes British idenity and culture at every cahnce, the various jubilees, weddings, orange marches, flags on state buildings etc...The GAA ground is one of the few places you can go as a nationalist and sing your national anthem and respect the flag you hold dear, official NI doesn't give you any recognition. So why would we take this part of our identity and culture away? We are forced to grit our teeth and suck it up in the face of all this British celebration. I am all for attracting Protestants to our games but not at the expense of our own identity.

Are we not setting up GAA clubs in England, America, Austrialia and beyond? Even Amsterdam have it going on!!

My-self as an Unionist/Protestant G.A.A. fan will not see this as a slap in the face. I know this is only to do with one club and not the G.A.A. in general. Others will see it as a slap in the face and a move by that club that was probably intended to be as such.

Quote from: dillinger on June 08, 2012, 05:43:55 PM
My-self as an Unionist/Protestant G.A.A. fan will not see this as a slap in the face. I know this is only to do with one club and not the G.A.A. in general. Others will see it as a slap in the face and a move by that club that was probably intended to be as such.

It is one thing to name tournaments/clubs after a local "hero" as such, but putting a picture on a medal is stretching it. That said I always feel putting an image of any deceased person aon a medal, memorila, headstone or whatever is in bad taste.

Quote from: lawnseed on June 08, 2012, 10:29:06 AM
this is a throw away story the woman wont go on air and doesn't want to be named and wont go to her club rep so she should shut her mouth. shes another one of the growing number of eejits who think that clubs exist to make sure their kids get football but don't want to get involved and criticise those who give up their free time to offer their kids sport. nobody can change the gaa from without. if you want to change it you must do it from within.

Maybe the woman wouldn't feel comfortable about raising this issue directly with the club? Maybe she doesn't think she'd get a good reaction.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 12:59:08 PM
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 08, 2012, 11:59:23 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 12:59:08 PM
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 06:20:24 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 08, 2012, 11:59:23 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 12:59:08 PM
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 06:20:24 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 08, 2012, 11:59:23 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 12:59:08 PM
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

What??????

Quote from: eddie d on June 09, 2012, 11:34:00 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 06:20:24 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 08, 2012, 11:59:23 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 12:59:08 PM
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/victims-of-punishment-beatings-only-14-years-old-503665.html
or which leaves bombs in places which puts their lives and safety at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18112881
but anyone who sexually abuses them is beyond the pale?
Just trying to establish where you draw the line...

Can everyone please ignore the troll.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 02:15:20 PM

Quote from: eddie d on June 09, 2012, 11:34:00 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 06:20:24 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 08, 2012, 11:59:23 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2012, 12:59:08 PM
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/victims-of-punishment-beatings-only-14-years-old-503665.html
or which leaves bombs in places which puts their lives and safety at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18112881
but anyone who sexually abuses them is beyond the pale?
Just trying to establish where you draw the line...

Is your post directed to my post? If it is then read it again, I've posted that if they did a tournament for Pat it would be about his services to the club and nothing else, I also posted that he'd be the first to say that there are far better people with 60 plus years of service to the club who'd be more worthy of the honour of a tournament being named after them.

We do have a very successful hurling tournament named after a Pat Sheehan, though it's his uncle who did nearly 65 years service for the club.

QuoteSo it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,

Are you saying that it is not appropriate to honour someone in such an organisation? Do you apply this to all sports? So it is necessary to remove all of those who fought in armies, navies or air forces to say nothing of the RUC or UDR?

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 08, 2012, 02:36:30 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2012, 09:47:34 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2012, 09:41:30 AM
Ok then, the general consensus is that we continue to have tournaments remembering freedom fighters and never worry what others think? Those who'd complain about these things would normally complain about anything the GAA would do anyway.

By doing this though I think we will never be able to include everybody on the island into GAA. That probably sits better with most

Milltown, the point is that the GAA carries a lot more political baggage than that tournament in Galbally.

While we continue to play Amhran na bhFiann, fly a tricolour, have clubs and grounds named after republicans, we are never going to be all inclusive. People are kidding themselves that we will suddenly become all inclusive if we stop honouring any more republicans but retain the memory of the ones we already honour.

Where is all this clamour coming from to make the GAA non Irish and all-inclusive? Surely the whole rasion d'etre of the GAA is about promoting an Irish cultural and sporting identity, albeit one that is non party political. You can't seperate the GAA from an Irish identity and it is the one organisation that gave northern nationalists a sense of their Irishness from the dark days of partition, gerrymandering and discrimination through to the present. We still live in a society that doesn't quite believe in parity of esteem, look at Craigavon Borough Council, and one that promotes British idenity and culture at every cahnce, the various jubilees, weddings, orange marches, flags on state buildings etc...The GAA ground is one of the few places you can go as a nationalist and sing your national anthem and respect the flag you hold dear, official NI doesn't give you any recognition. So why would we take this part of our identity and culture away? We are forced to grit our teeth and suck it up in the face of all this British celebration. I am all for attracting Protestants to our games but not at the expense of our own identity.

That a fair statement. Those calling for rules should remember that this is a 'bottom up' not 'top down' organization. Clubs should have minimal interference in their own affairs.

(the picture on the medal was a bad idea though)

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 02:15:20 PM

Quote from: eddie d on June 09, 2012, 11:34:00 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 06:20:24 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 08, 2012, 11:59:23 PM

quote author=Milltown Row2 link=topic=21722.msg1119161#msg1119161 date=1339070348]
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/victims-of-punishment-beatings-only-14-years-old-503665.html
or which leaves bombs in places which puts their lives and safety at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18112881
but anyone who sexually abuses them is beyond the pale?
Just trying to establish where you draw the line...
[/quote]


I have no doubt that the club were proud that Martin McCaughey was a club member and and IRA volunteer. The competition was named after him for that fact. The competition has been run for years without any bad publicity; one woman decides to contact the media.............and then we have this thread.

Let's remember without a lot of Republican support some clubs on the north would not exist.

Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2012, 02:47:28 PM
Can everyone please ignore the troll.

+1

Quote from: theticklemister on June 09, 2012, 09:48:16 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 02:15:20 PM

Quote from: eddie d on June 09, 2012, 11:34:00 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 06:20:24 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 08, 2012, 11:59:23 PM

quote author=Milltown Row2 link=topic=21722.msg1119161#msg1119161 date=1339070348]
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/victims-of-punishment-beatings-only-14-years-old-503665.html
or which leaves bombs in places which puts their lives and safety at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18112881
but anyone who sexually abuses them is beyond the pale?
Just trying to establish where you draw the line...

I have no doubt that the club were proud that Martin McCaughey was a club member and and IRA volunteer. The competition was named after him for that fact. The competition has been run for years without any bad publicity; one woman decides to contact the media.............and then we have this thread.

Let's remember without a lot of Republican support some clubs on the north would not exist.

[/quote]

Republican support is ok, terrorist scum support is not. Please stop this pretence that the perfectly acceptable and honourable political ideology of Republicanism has ever had anything to do with these murderous scum.

HoW does it feel to bask in the freedom won for you by people considered 'murderous scum' and 'terrorist scum' by the people they wrested that freedom from? You display the same naivity your county displays every time they run out at Croke Park against Kerry

Quote from: red hander on June 09, 2012, 10:08:15 PM
You display the same naivity your county displays every time they run out at Croke Park against Kerry

;D ;D ;D ;D

A bit harsh there redhander  ;D

About the inclusiveness or non inclusiveness of the GAA- I attended the Cayman islands GAA finals last sun week and apart from the Irish, Aussies, locals, yanks, Canadians and south Africans playing ( men's and woman's leagues) there were a few lads playing from unionist/loyalist background from the six counties, plus a few Glaswegian rangers fans - all who apparantly would berate the GAA when back in their home domiciles but were happy enough to play , enjoy and really get into Gaelic football on grand cayman island! ( info from the friends I was visiting who are friendly with these guys!!)
So maybe the problem is. It with the GAA , or Ireland - but the 'communities'' from
Where these people come from at 'home' !!!

While I think the pic in the medals looked dilly, in a few short years, these clubs and competitions will no longer be contentious - they will be assimilated into society just like Connolly station, wife tone quay, Robert Emmett st etc etc

Time will move on, as will people - reunification will happen and help this also - so there is no point in flustering over something that is a non entity .
Eventually people will not look for offence and just grow up!!

Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 09, 2012, 10:31:54 PM
About the inclusiveness or non inclusiveness of the GAA- I attended the Cayman islands GAA finals last sun week and apart from the Irish, Aussies, locals, yanks, Canadians and south Africans playing ( men's and woman's leagues) there were a few lads playing from unionist/loyalist background from the six counties, plus a few Glaswegian rangers fans - all who apparantly would berate the GAA when back in their home domiciles but were happy enough to play , enjoy and really get into Gaelic football on grand cayman island!
So maybe the problem is. It with the GAA , or Ireland - but the 'commu ities' fri
Where these people come format 'home' !!!

While I think the pic in the medals looked dilly, in a few short years, these clubs and competitions will no longer be contentious - they will be assimilated into society just like Connolly station, wife tone quay, Robert Emmett st etc etc

Time will move on, as will people - reunification will happen and help this also - so there is no point in flustering over something that is a non entity .
Eventually people will not look for offence and just grow up!!

Go on, tell us when ?

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on June 09, 2012, 09:53:04 PM

Quote from: theticklemister on June 09, 2012, 09:48:16 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 02:15:20 PM

Quote from: eddie d on June 09, 2012, 11:34:00 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 09, 2012, 06:20:24 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 08, 2012, 11:59:23 PM

quote author=Milltown Row2 link=topic=21722.msg1119161#msg1119161 date=1339070348]
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/victims-of-punishment-beatings-only-14-years-old-503665.html
or which leaves bombs in places which puts their lives and safety at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18112881
but anyone who sexually abuses them is beyond the pale?
Just trying to establish where you draw the line...

I have no doubt that the club were proud that Martin McCaughey was a club member and and IRA volunteer. The competition was named after him for that fact. The competition has been run for years without any bad publicity; one woman decides to contact the media.............and then we have this thread.

Let's remember without a lot of Republican support some clubs on the north would not exist.

Republican support is ok, terrorist scum support is not. Please stop this pretence that the perfectly acceptable and honourable political ideology of Republicanism has ever had anything to do with these murderous scum.
[/quote]
Who in particular do you mean mghu ??
Ruc, IRA, udr, British army, British gov, irish gov..??

Quote from: red hander on June 09, 2012, 10:08:15 PM
HoW does it feel to bask in the freedom won for you by people considered 'murderous scum' and 'terrorist scum' by the people they wrested that freedom from? You display the same naivity your county displays every time they run out at Croke Park against Kerry

(http://mayogaablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Mayo-v-Kerry-Final-Score-League-Semi-Final-20121.jpg)

;D

Yeah, everybody remembers those historic wins in the league, you'd swap those anytime for Sam... I'll go and get the baler out of the shed so you will have enough straw to grasp at, but while you're waiting you can iron some lovely creases into your blue shirt

Quote from: red hander on June 09, 2012, 10:08:15 PM
HoW does it feel to bask in the freedom won for you by people considered 'murderous scum' and 'terrorist scum' by the people they wrested that freedom from? You display the same naivity your county displays every time they run out at Croke Park against Kerry

Ah you see the Old IRA were positively angelic you see  ::) Pay no heed to that Mayo clampit and his made-to-measure history.

1922 - The year Irish history began. Take it down from the mast and hang your heads in shame.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2012, 06:20:44 PM

QuoteSo it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,

Are you saying that it is not appropriate to honour someone in such an organisation? Do you apply this to all sports? So it is necessary to remove all of those who fought in armies, navies or air forces to say nothing of the RUC or UDR?

That's what I'm saying. I'm not aware of anyone from the RUC or UDR being honoured by the GAA, nor of any sailors or airmen. The only 'military' people who seem to get a club / competition / named after them tend to be Irish republicans. Why is this? Why do GAA people feel the need to recognise those who belonged to an organisation which killed and maimed women and children on a regular basis?

(other sports I'll leave to other message boards)

You went onto another thread discussing another sports and decided to comment about the GAA. So don't start giving out if this tread if it moves to other sports you hypocrite.

No issue with it if they were a good GAA person.

If there was any deserving polce or army person then there may be things named after them!
Obv there have been no worthy candidates up until now !

Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 10, 2012, 07:08:29 PM
No issue with it if they were a good GAA person.

If there was any deserving polce or army person then there may be things named after them!
Obv there have been no worthy candidates up until now !

I think it would be a great idea to have a tournament in dedication of Peadar Heffron. The work that man did in the PSNI for the GAA was unreal and I think he would deserve something named after him.

Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2012, 12:15:29 AM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 10, 2012, 07:08:29 PM
No issue with it if they were a good GAA person.

If there was any deserving polce or army person then there may be things named after them!
Obv there have been no worthy candidates up until now !

I think it would be a great idea to have a tournament in dedication of Peadar Heffron. The work that man did in the PSNI for the GAA was unreal and I think he would deserve something named after him.

Yes, but most (all?) such tournaments are named posthumously.

I think that competitions named after the likes of Joe McKelvey and Sean Larkin are important to show what sort of a fcuk up of a place the Free State was (and still is).

Screenexile has put a cat or two amongst the pigeons.

All very quiet here now.  :D

Quote from: orangeman on June 11, 2012, 02:38:49 PM
Screenexile has put a cat or two amongst the pigeons.

All very quiet here now.  :D

Jesus! I forgot I had even typed that. I had a few beers in me at that stage!!

Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2012, 12:15:29 AM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 10, 2012, 07:08:29 PM
No issue with it if they were a good GAA person.

If there was any deserving polce or army person then there may be things named after them!
Obv there have been no worthy candidates up until now !

I think it would be a great idea to have a tournament in dedication of Peadar Heffron. The work that man did in the PSNI for the GAA was unreal and I think he would deserve something named after him.

Sounds like a good idea alright, but as SS2 suggested, most dedications are posthumous. Any recognition of a member of police or army is also likely to be in relation to a police club/tournament.

Quote from: screenexile on June 11, 2012, 03:07:44 PM

Quote from: orangeman on June 11, 2012, 02:38:49 PM
Screenexile has put a cat or two amongst the pigeons.

All very quiet here now.  :D

Jesus! I forgot I had even typed that. I had a few beers in me at that stage!!

You mean you were full ?  :D

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 13, 2012, 02:42:33 AM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 10, 2012, 07:08:29 PM
No issue with it if they were a good GAA person.

If there was any deserving polce or army person then there may be things named after them!
Obv there have been no worthy candidates up until now !

Actually threw the question in as I found out there was such a case. There's a trophy in Ulster named in honour of a person for their work in the GAA where a few years ago it was discovered they had once served in the British armed forces. This info is very low key though, and I'm not really in a position to say in public which trophy or competition it is for the sake of privacy.

Don't worry, the BBC & Tele will make it front page news.  ::)
Hope the medals are a bit more discreet.

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 13, 2012, 02:42:33 AM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 10, 2012, 07:08:29 PM
No issue with it if they were a good GAA person.

If there was any deserving polce or army person then there may be things named after them!
Obv there have been no worthy candidates up until now !

Actually threw the question in as I found out there was such a case. There's a trophy in Ulster named in honour of a person for their work in the GAA where a few years ago it was discovered they had once served in the British armed forces. This info is very low key though, and I'm not really in a position to say in public which trophy or competition it is for the sake of privacy.

thats good. Certainly I think so anyway. If a man (or woman) has given great service to the GAA then I cannot see how or why anyone would have a problem with it.

Quote from: DownFanatic on June 14, 2012, 03:13:06 PM
Outrage as Union Jack is raised at GAA pitch
14 June 2012

Members of a GAA club in Co. Down awoke on Tuesday morning to discover vandals had wreaked havoc at a pitch that is used by their juvenile players.

A day after a Union Jack flag was tied to the top of one of the goalposts at the Newry and Mourne District Council pitch near Kilkeel, which is being used by Ballymartin GAA while their own pitch is being redeveloped, bigots used heavy cutting equipment to remove the metal uprights, which left the goal-frame looking like soccer goals. They also used a stencil to paint the word 'British' on the remainder of each post.

Sinn Fein Councillor Sean Doran has accused the vandals of trying to drive Catholics out of the area.

"It is exclusively used by juveniles. Over 50 children under the age of 14 have been using the pitch for training," he explained to The Irish News.

"For what I can only call sectarian bigots to vandalise this pitch is a total disgrace."

Astonishingly, Harold McKee of the UUP stopped short of condemning the vandalism.

"The Protestant community have a fear that if the Gaelic posts are up they will be up forever," he said.

Despite the attack, Ballymartin juvenile players have continued to train at the pitch, which is part of a site that also includes several soccer pitches.

A spokesman for the club said: "Ballymartin GAC are most disappointed at the recent intimidating actions of others, following the creation of a Gaelic pitch at the council-owned facility at Carginagh Road, Kilkeel.

"Ballymartin GAC trusts the council will continue to maintain the facilities to enable Gaelic games be played and appeal that everyone in the wider community affords our youth members the opportunity to enjoy their sport in a neutral environment."

Hardly "Slghtly on Topic", as you initially posted.

This thread is about a GAA club endorsing controversial/divisive Republican figures at a childrens' event (and the subsequent effect this might have on Unionist participation in GAA etc.)

Whereas your post is about the GAA suffering the effects of Loyalist sectarianism elsewhere.

Therefore unless you feel that there is some sort of causal link between the GAA's Republican posturing in Galbally and the subsequent Loyalist vandalism in Kilkeel, then you might be advised to delete this post (to prevent the thread being dragged off topic), especially since the Kilkeel incident is already being discussed here:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=21749.30

Quote from: Evil Genius on June 14, 2012, 03:21:00 PM

Quote from: DownFanatic on June 14, 2012, 03:13:06 PM
Outrage as Union Jack is raised at GAA pitch
14 June 2012

Members of a GAA club in Co. Down awoke on Tuesday morning to discover vandals had wreaked havoc at a pitch that is used by their juvenile players.

A day after a Union Jack flag was tied to the top of one of the goalposts at the Newry and Mourne District Council pitch near Kilkeel, which is being used by Ballymartin GAA while their own pitch is being redeveloped, bigots used heavy cutting equipment to remove the metal uprights, which left the goal-frame looking like soccer goals. They also used a stencil to paint the word 'British' on the remainder of each post.

Sinn Fein Councillor Sean Doran has accused the vandals of trying to drive Catholics out of the area.

"It is exclusively used by juveniles. Over 50 children under the age of 14 have been using the pitch for training," he explained to The Irish News.

"For what I can only call sectarian bigots to vandalise this pitch is a total disgrace."

Astonishingly, Harold McKee of the UUP stopped short of condemning the vandalism.

"The Protestant community have a fear that if the Gaelic posts are up they will be up forever," he said.

Despite the attack, Ballymartin juvenile players have continued to train at the pitch, which is part of a site that also includes several soccer pitches.

A spokesman for the club said: "Ballymartin GAC are most disappointed at the recent intimidating actions of others, following the creation of a Gaelic pitch at the council-owned facility at Carginagh Road, Kilkeel.

"Ballymartin GAC trusts the council will continue to maintain the facilities to enable Gaelic games be played and appeal that everyone in the wider community affords our youth members the opportunity to enjoy their sport in a neutral environment."

Hardly "Slghtly on Topic", as you initially posted.

This thread is about a GAA club endorsing controversial/divisive Republican figures at a childrens' event (and the subsequent effect this might have on Unionist participation in GAA etc.)

Whereas your post is about the GAA suffering the effects of Loyalist sectarianism elsewhere.

Therefore unless you feel that there is some sort of causal link between the GAA's Republican posturing in Galbally and the subsequent Loyalist vandalism in Kilkeel, then you might be advised to delete this post (to prevent the thread being dragged off topic), especially since the Kilkeel incident is already being discussed here:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=21749.30

I'll delete it. Didn't realise it was being discussed elsewhere.

And by the way, it was 'slightly on topic' in terms of how our recent history shapes the actions of some sections of our society in relation to how they express themselves in relation to the GAA.

Quote from: DownFanatic on June 14, 2012, 03:13:06 PM
Outrage as Union Jack is raised at GAA pitch
14 June 2012

Members of a GAA club in Co. Down awoke on Tuesday morning to discover vandals had wreaked havoc at a pitch that is used by their juvenile players.

A day after a Union Jack flag was tied to the top of one of the goalposts at the Newry and Mourne District Council pitch near Kilkeel, which is being used by Ballymartin GAA while their own pitch is being redeveloped, bigots used heavy cutting equipment to remove the metal uprights, which left the goal-frame looking like soccer goals. They also used a stencil to paint the word 'British' on the remainder of each post.

Sinn Fein Councillor Sean Doran has accused the vandals of trying to drive Catholics out of the area.

"It is exclusively used by juveniles. Over 50 children under the age of 14 have been using the pitch for training," he explained to The Irish News.

"For what I can only call sectarian bigots to vandalise this pitch is a total disgrace."

Astonishingly, Harold McKee of the UUP stopped short of condemning the vandalism.

"The Protestant community have a fear that if the Gaelic posts are up they will be up forever," he said.

Despite the attack, Ballymartin juvenile players have continued to train at the pitch, which is part of a site that also includes several soccer pitches.

A spokesman for the club said: "Ballymartin GAC are most disappointed at the recent intimidating actions of others, following the creation of a Gaelic pitch at the council-owned facility at Carginagh Road, Kilkeel.

"Ballymartin GAC trusts the council will continue to maintain the facilities to enable Gaelic games be played and appeal that everyone in the wider community affords our youth members the opportunity to enjoy their sport in a neutral environment."

What do they mean by the the last sentence (paricularly the part that is emboldened)?

I assume they mean "neutral" in that they are community pitches serving soccer, rugby, GAA and owned by the council.

I see we still havent managed to reach out as far as Jim Allister who stated on Nolan this morning that the GAA was a 'recruiting ground for the IRA'.

That fat cnut Nolan let him away with it too.

Playing to the gallery remaining backwoodsmen. He knows that some DUP members will not be happy with Peter going to the Cooperation Ireland dinner yesterday.

Mr Robinson also paid tribute to the GAA.

"In the last few years Co-Operation Ireland has celebrated the role of rugby and football in peace-building and it is fitting that tonight we very publicly acknowledge the important role of the GAA.

"It is a testament to the progress that we have all made that tonight we can acknowledge the GAA's role in peace-building by inviting a first minister from the unionist tradition to the lectern.

Worth remembering that while Robinson comes across as the moderate there, the blame for the bulk of loyalist violence this year lies squarely with Robinson and the DUP. They started the ball rolling on "the fleg"/alliance party and have stoked the flames and heartily excused the violence throughout.

Quote from: Nally Stand on October 18, 2013, 01:12:11 PM
Worth remembering that while Robinson comes across as the moderate there, the blame for the bulk of loyalist violence this year lies squarely with Robinson and the DUP. They started the ball rolling on "the fleg"/alliance party and have stoked the flames and heartily excused the violence throughout.

100% and he will continue to do so if/when the cnuts start hitting Christmas trade again. Forked-tongued hoor.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2013, 01:18:31 PM

Quote from: Nally Stand on October 18, 2013, 01:12:11 PM
Worth remembering that while Robinson comes across as the moderate there, the blame for the bulk of loyalist violence this year lies squarely with Robinson and the DUP. They started the ball rolling on "the fleg"/alliance party and have stoked the flames and heartily excused the violence throughout.

100% and he will continue to do so if/when the cnuts start hitting Christmas trade again. Forked-tongued hoor.

We can think all of those things and still give him a teeny bit of credit for last night, no?

Quote from: deiseach on October 18, 2013, 01:19:56 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2013, 01:18:31 PM

Quote from: Nally Stand on October 18, 2013, 01:12:11 PM
Worth remembering that while Robinson comes across as the moderate there, the blame for the bulk of loyalist violence this year lies squarely with Robinson and the DUP. They started the ball rolling on "the fleg"/alliance party and have stoked the flames and heartily excused the violence throughout.

100% and he will continue to do so if/when the cnuts start hitting Christmas trade again. Forked-tongued hoor.

We can think all of those things and still give him a teeny bit of credit for last night, no?

Surely. A tiny bit of credit. Though I wouldn't dwell on it while he remains one of the biggest threats to peace and stability here. He is a deeply sectarian bigot ('imagine selling land to themmuns'), who in his desire to win back East Belfast from Alliance and in his pandering to the lowest by caving in to Jim Allister's every demand, is responsible (himself and his party) for the mayhem created by loyalists in the past twelve months. Never mind just about 'the fleg', but parades too was an area of contention which was stoked up by Robinson. He is the man who in the summer signed letter widely seen as encouraging loyalist bands to defy the PC ruling on Black Saturday parades and warning (threatening?) loyalist violence if they did not get their way.

Quote from: deiseach on October 18, 2013, 01:19:56 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2013, 01:18:31 PM

Quote from: Nally Stand on October 18, 2013, 01:12:11 PM
Worth remembering that while Robinson comes across as the moderate there, the blame for the bulk of loyalist violence this year lies squarely with Robinson and the DUP. They started the ball rolling on "the fleg"/alliance party and have stoked the flames and heartily excused the violence throughout.

100% and he will continue to do so if/when the cnuts start hitting Christmas trade again. Forked-tongued hoor.

We can think all of those things and still give him a teeny bit of credit for last night, no?

Fair enough, teeny bit of credit it is. However he is supposed to be first minister for ALL the population of NI whatever their race, religion, politics etc. What is the problem with attending a function for the biggest sporting organisation in his jurisdiction. It shouldn't be a big deal, probably not even newsworthy. After Allister's attack today, expect an ' I'm a better Unionist than you ' statement from the boul Peter as per the last time. with one hand giveth, the other taketh away.

Credit to Robinson indeed for this gesture, which is high risk, particularly with the backwoodsmen (not least in his own party) at his heels, and PUP pushing hard for votes in loyalists working class areas.

As for that little turd Allister, his wife is happy enough to sell land to Fermanagh gaels.

Quote from: grounded on October 18, 2013, 01:59:01 PM
Fair enough, teeny bit of credit it is. However he is supposed to be first minister for ALL the population of NI whatever their race, religion, politics etc. What is the problem with attending a function for the biggest sporting organisation in his jurisdiction. It shouldn't be a big deal, probably not even newsworthy. After Allister's attack today, expect an ' I'm a better Unionist than you ' statement from the boul Peter as per the last time. with one hand giveth, the other taketh away.

Point taken.

Surprise surprise, there is no mention of this outburst on the BBC website yet we have them gleefully reporting this from Brolly;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24584058

GAA TV commentator Joe Brolly has said it is "nobody else's business" if GAA clubs or tournaments are named after dead republican paramilitaries.

Unionist politicians say the practice glorifies terrorism.

Mr Brolly said he was "proud" that a hurling club in his home town Dungiven was named after the INLA hunger striker Kevin Lynch, who was a club member.

"It's nobody else's business - it's as simple as that. People can either like it or lump it," he said.

"That's the way societies and communities work. Kevin played hurling for Dungiven and for Derry, and the hurling club was named for that reason. We're very proud of him."

The former Derry player was speaking after some unionists, including TUV leader Jim Allister, renewed criticism of the GAA following an appearance by First Minister Peter Robinson on Thursday at a Co-Operation Ireland dinner, organised to acknowledge the efforts of the GAA to forge better community relations.

Mr Brolly said concern about GAA club names was "just a sideshow" and it was "important" that Mr Robinson had attended the event.

"The GAA is working furiously at cross-community relations, as far as that's possible," he said.

"He's gone as far as he can go - he had to say the stuff about not being particularly content about clubs like Kevin Lynch's.

"The most important thing about last night's event was that he was there."

Mr Robinson paid tribute to the GAA in his speech on Thursday.

"In the last few years Co-Operation Ireland has celebrated the role of rugby and football in peace-building and it is fitting that tonight we very publicly acknowledge the important role of the GAA.

"It is a testament to the progress that we have all made that tonight we can acknowledge the GAA's role in peace-building by inviting a first minister from the unionist tradition to the lectern.

"Not so many years ago it would have been unimaginable that I would have been invited to speak at an event of this kind - or that I would have accepted.

"Thankfully the world has moved on. We are all on a journey. Although I think we each recognise that there is still some distance to travel.

"For my part I want to see my party reaching out further in the years to come and I am certain that the GAA leadership will want to do the same."

Quote from: Franko on October 18, 2013, 03:20:29 PM
Surprise surprise, there is no mention of this outburst on the BBC website yet we have them gleefully reporting this from Brolly;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24584058

GAA TV commentator Joe Brolly has said it is "nobody else's business" if GAA clubs or tournaments are named after dead republican paramilitaries.

Unionist politicians say the practice glorifies terrorism.

Mr Brolly said he was "proud" that a hurling club in his home town Dungiven was named after the INLA hunger striker Kevin Lynch, who was a club member.

"It's nobody else's business - it's as simple as that. People can either like it or lump it," he said.

"That's the way societies and communities work. Kevin played hurling for Dungiven and for Derry, and the hurling club was named for that reason. We're very proud of him."

The former Derry player was speaking after some unionists, including TUV leader Jim Allister, renewed criticism of the GAA following an appearance by First Minister Peter Robinson on Thursday at a Co-Operation Ireland dinner, organised to acknowledge the efforts of the GAA to forge better community relations.

Mr Brolly said concern about GAA club names was "just a sideshow" and it was "important" that Mr Robinson had attended the event.

"The GAA is working furiously at cross-community relations, as far as that's possible," he said.

"He's gone as far as he can go - he had to say the stuff about not being particularly content about clubs like Kevin Lynch's.

"The most important thing about last night's event was that he was there."

Mr Robinson paid tribute to the GAA in his speech on Thursday.

"In the last few years Co-Operation Ireland has celebrated the role of rugby and football in peace-building and it is fitting that tonight we very publicly acknowledge the important role of the GAA.

"It is a testament to the progress that we have all made that tonight we can acknowledge the GAA's role in peace-building by inviting a first minister from the unionist tradition to the lectern.

"Not so many years ago it would have been unimaginable that I would have been invited to speak at an event of this kind - or that I would have accepted.

"Thankfully the world has moved on. We are all on a journey. Although I think we each recognise that there is still some distance to travel.

"For my part I want to see my party reaching out further in the years to come and I am certain that the GAA leadership will want to do the same."
[/quote
Clearly that will not be terribly far if people like Brolly don't care if the names used by clubs are offensive to the people the GAA is trying to attract.

Quote from: michaelg on October 18, 2013, 06:02:26 PM

Quote from: Franko on October 18, 2013, 03:20:29 PM
Surprise surprise, there is no mention of this outburst on the BBC website yet we have them gleefully reporting this from Brolly;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24584058

GAA TV commentator Joe Brolly has said it is "nobody else's business" if GAA clubs or tournaments are named after dead republican paramilitaries.

Unionist politicians say the practice glorifies terrorism.

Mr Brolly said he was "proud" that a hurling club in his home town Dungiven was named after the INLA hunger striker Kevin Lynch, who was a club member.

"It's nobody else's business - it's as simple as that. People can either like it or lump it," he said.

"That's the way societies and communities work. Kevin played hurling for Dungiven and for Derry, and the hurling club was named for that reason. We're very proud of him."

The former Derry player was speaking after some unionists, including TUV leader Jim Allister, renewed criticism of the GAA following an appearance by First Minister Peter Robinson on Thursday at a Co-Operation Ireland dinner, organised to acknowledge the efforts of the GAA to forge better community relations.

Mr Brolly said concern about GAA club names was "just a sideshow" and it was "important" that Mr Robinson had attended the event.

"The GAA is working furiously at cross-community relations, as far as that's possible," he said.

"He's gone as far as he can go - he had to say the stuff about not being particularly content about clubs like Kevin Lynch's.

"The most important thing about last night's event was that he was there."

Mr Robinson paid tribute to the GAA in his speech on Thursday.

"In the last few years Co-Operation Ireland has celebrated the role of rugby and football in peace-building and it is fitting that tonight we very publicly acknowledge the important role of the GAA.

"It is a testament to the progress that we have all made that tonight we can acknowledge the GAA's role in peace-building by inviting a first minister from the unionist tradition to the lectern.

"Not so many years ago it would have been unimaginable that I would have been invited to speak at an event of this kind - or that I would have accepted.

"Thankfully the world has moved on. We are all on a journey. Although I think we each recognise that there is still some distance to travel.

"For my part I want to see my party reaching out further in the years to come and I am certain that the GAA leadership will want to do the same."
[/quote
Clearly that will not be terribly far if people like Brolly don't care if the names used by clubs are offensive to the people the GAA is trying to attract.

As Joe said like it or lump it,reach out yes but remember our dead the same way as every other country in the world.

It seems the GAA will be only be acceptable to certain segments of Unionism if they stop being what they are and become good little unionists.

Quote from: Rossfan on October 18, 2013, 07:19:09 PM
It seems the GAA will be only be acceptable to certain segments of Unionism if they stop being what they are and become good little unionists.

Correct. If you look at the basic aims of the GAA, it just is incompatible with what Unionism sees as acceptable.
1.2 Basic Aim
The Association is a National Organisation which has as
its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity
in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and
promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes.

To be acceptable would involve a total change in the GAA's core ethos not just the window dressing exercise of renaming a few clubs/grounds. Forsake everything the GAA has stood for, in the HOPE of being more attractive to the Unionist community. Foster good relations surely but if you're hoping for an uptake of GAA CULTUR you can forget it. I suppose its an Irish thing but Why is the GAA obsessed by what other people think of it?

Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a twat, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a twat.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the twat.

Wasn't there a loyalist hunger strike?.......think it lasted until lunch time ;D

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a twat.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM
  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does.

Do the 70% or whatever of Nationalists who vote SF in the North  pay any taxes to contribute to those public funds.???
Who in a divided polarised society should decide who or what is an acceptable body to receive public funding made up of contributions from both sides of society?
Shades of turning the clock back to 1967 Mylesín.... ::)

For thye record I think that basic aim should be amended to read  "....its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity
in Ireland  and abroad through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes

Quote from: Rossfan on October 19, 2013, 12:43:49 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM
  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does.

Do the 70% or whatever of Nationalists who vote SF in the North  pay any taxes to contribute to those public funds.???
Who in a divided polarised society should decide who or what is an acceptable body to receive public funding made up of contributions from both sides of society?
Shades of turning the clock back to 1967 Mylesín.... ::)

For thye record I think that basic aim should be amended to read  "....its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity
in Ireland  and abroad through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes

So it's only northern Shinners' votes that count? That's a bit partitionist, is it not? Why not canvas the views of everyone on the island? I think you'd find that the great majority of people don't see the provos as heroes worthy of commemoration, least of all by an organisation which claims to have an outreach programme aimed at northern unionists.

I assumed you were talking about public finds in the 6 Cos going to the GAA??? If the Nordie Executive or Sports Department go down the road of asking the people of the 26 Cos for their views before giving out public money I'd expect there might be a lot of very upset Unionists around  ;D
If the only way the GAA can "outreach" to unionists is by doing whatever Allister and Campbell want....... it's hardly worth their while is it?

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

QuoteThe GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does.

There are significant public funds being paid out in pensions and salaries to people linked to organisation which committed atrocities. Are you advocating that these also be discontinued. This could be helpful in balancing public expenditure.

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

I literally do not know what else to say.

The club is named so because he was a former member who died on hungerstrike. That is why it is named so.

They don't commemorate him because of the actions of the organisation with which he was a member. The sentiment isn't to celebrate INLA violence or killings. Kevin Lynch was never convicted of killing anyone. He was a local who died on hungerstrike. It is literally as simple as that. If you are saying that KL HC is named so simply because he was an INLA member then why aren't there clubs named after other PIRA/INLA members in Belfast, South Armagh, East Tyrone, South Derry etc.?

And yes you're correct, on occasion Republicans do like draw comparisons with the British Army; because some Unionists like yourself tend to forget that the role the British Army played here i.e. killing Nationalists, or helping Loyalists kill Nationalists.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was the INLA responsible for all of these?

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

You are an absolute idiot. He wasn't a member of the IRA, he was a member of the INLA. If you're going to get all high and mighty about something then why not actually research it properly beforehand.

What the people of the 32 counties feel about the IRA or INLA is completely and utterly secondary to what the members of Kevin Lynch's want their club to be named.

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 03:03:02 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

I literally do not know what else to say.

The club is named so because he was a former member who died on hungerstrike. That is why it is named so.

They don't commemorate him because of the actions of the organisation with which he was a member. The sentiment isn't to celebrate INLA violence or killings. Kevin Lynch was never convicted of killing anyone. He was a local who died on hungerstrike. It is literally as simple as that. If you are saying that KL HC is named so simply because he was an INLA member then why aren't there clubs named after other PIRA/INLA members in Belfast, South Armagh, East Tyrone, South Derry etc.?

And yes you're correct, on occasion Republicans do like draw comparisons with the British Army; because some Unionists like yourself tend to forget that the role the British Army played here i.e. killing Nationalists, or helping Loyalists kill Nationalists.

1. I'm not a unionist
2. I'm well aware of the actions of the British Army here
3. The actions of the British Army do not excuse or justify IRA / INLA atrocities
4. What difference does it make that Kevin Lynch was never convicted of killing anyone? He joined the INLA, didn't he? I'm pretty sure that means he was willing to kill people. Whether or not he achieved what he set out to do is irrelevant.
5. Kevin Lynch 'was a local who died on hunger strike'. Is it as simple as that? Is everyone who goes on hunger strike and dies worthy of commemoration? If Lynch had been a convicted paedophile and had gone on hunger strike to protest about his prison conditions, would the local club still have been named after him had he died? No, I don't think so either. Honouring Lynch is not just about the hunger strike. It's about showing support and solidarity with the man and what he stood for. That's why it causes such a fuss. A national organisation like the GAA is allowing itself to be linked with the Droppin Wells bombers. 

Quote from: stibhan on October 19, 2013, 03:38:40 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

You are an absolute idiot. He wasn't a member of the IRA, he was a member of the INLA. If you're going to get all high and mighty about something then why not actually research it properly beforehand.

What the people of the 32 counties feel about the IRA or INLA is completely and utterly secondary to what the members of Kevin Lynch's want their club to be named.

Judean People's Front, People's Front of Judea... ::)

Their club is a member of the GAA, which a 32 county body. So really, it isn't just a matter for people in Dungiven, or at least it shouldn't be.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 03:48:28 PM

Quote from: stibhan on October 19, 2013, 03:38:40 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

You are an absolute idiot. He wasn't a member of the IRA, he was a member of the INLA. If you're going to get all high and mighty about something then why not actually research it properly beforehand.

What the people of the 32 counties feel about the IRA or INLA is completely and utterly secondary to what the members of Kevin Lynch's want their club to be named.

Judean People's Front, People's Front of Judea... ::)

Their club is a member of the GAA, which a 32 county body. So really, it isn't just a matter for people in Dungiven, or at least it shouldn't be.

Sorry but if you're going to start claiming that the organisation he was affiliated to was 'responsible' for a number of atrocities, then you are going to have to admit that you were wrong. It also demonstrates the casual relationship your posts seem to have with the truth - you're pretending to be offended on the basis of something Jim Allister said.


Nobody in the GAA is going to start drawing those lines, but can I ask if you're affiliated to the GAA? If so please feel free to bring a motion to your club or county AGM and see what support it wins.

How many other clubs were named after 1981 Hunger Strikers, by the way?

There is little point arguing with this clown.

I had a look through his previous postings and on the same topic a number of years ago he referred to the GAA in NI as "basically Sinn Fein in football boots".

This from a man who claims not to be a Unionist.

From a PR perspective the custom of commemorating those who fought and died for their beliefs is a major headache for the GAA. I have no issue with it whatsoever but I am very proud of the GAA and what it stands for as a cultural and sporting organisation. I want to see my association portrayed in the best possible light at all times and I feel that naming a GAA ground, competition or team after a deceased member of the IRA or any other organisation, is counterproductive. It goes against the inclusive message that we are trying our damnedest to get out there and it is used by others to demean and belittle our beloved organisation AND the memories of those we are attempting to commemorate.
I just don't feel it is appropriate in 2013 - the GAA is a modern and forward thinking organisation that continues to grow from strength to strength and has become the very backbone of many of our communities.

Maybe we should grow with it.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

How do you know that?

Out of interest, do any members from Portglenone think that their club name actively encourages homosexual activity? Do Antrim GAA have a case to answer on this ground also? ;)

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 03:43:19 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 03:03:02 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

I literally do not know what else to say.

The club is named so because he was a former member who died on hungerstrike. That is why it is named so.

They don't commemorate him because of the actions of the organisation with which he was a member. The sentiment isn't to celebrate INLA violence or killings. Kevin Lynch was never convicted of killing anyone. He was a local who died on hungerstrike. It is literally as simple as that. If you are saying that KL HC is named so simply because he was an INLA member then why aren't there clubs named after other PIRA/INLA members in Belfast, South Armagh, East Tyrone, South Derry etc.?

And yes you're correct, on occasion Republicans do like draw comparisons with the British Army; because some Unionists like yourself tend to forget that the role the British Army played here i.e. killing Nationalists, or helping Loyalists kill Nationalists.

1. I'm not a unionist
2. I'm well aware of the actions of the British Army here
3. The actions of the British Army do not excuse or justify IRA / INLA atrocities
4. What difference does it make that Kevin Lynch was never convicted of killing anyone? He joined the INLA, didn't he? I'm pretty sure that means he was willing to kill people. Whether or not he achieved what he set out to do is irrelevant.
5. Kevin Lynch 'was a local who died on hunger strike'. Is it as simple as that? Is everyone who goes on hunger strike and dies worthy of commemoration? If Lynch had been a convicted paedophile and had gone on hunger strike to protest about his prison conditions, would the local club still have been named after him had he died? No, I don't think so either. Honouring Lynch is not just about the hunger strike. It's about showing support and solidarity with the man and what he stood for. That's why it causes such a fuss. A national organisation like the GAA is allowing itself to be linked with the Droppin Wells bombers.

If you feel strongly enough you could:

1: Join your local Gaa club;
2: Propose a motion regarding all club names at it's AGM;
3: If your motion succeeds you could then bring it to Congress;
4: If it succeeds at Congress you are laughing.

OR

1. You could argue strongly about it anonymously on the internet.

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
There is little point arguing with this clown.

I had a look through his previous postings and on the same topic a number of years ago he referred to the GAA in NI as "basically Sinn Fein in football boots".

This from a man who claims not to be a Unionist.

An Irish nationalist is someone who believes that Ireland is one country which should be independent and governed as a 32 county state. It is possible to hold that view and, simultaneously, to be indifferent about gaelic games and Sinn Fein. So what point are you trying to make, clown?

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 06:18:19 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
There is little point arguing with this clown.

I had a look through his previous postings and on the same topic a number of years ago he referred to the GAA in NI as "basically Sinn Fein in football boots".

This from a man who claims not to be a Unionist.

An Irish nationalist is someone who believes that Ireland is one country which should be independent and governed as a 32 county state. It is possible to hold that view and, simultaneously, to be indifferent about gaelic games and Sinn Fein. So what point are you trying to make, clown?

It's even possible to be a nationalist and be a right wing reactionary, idiot and a liar.
What are your probabilities, clown? A liar for sure and not just indifferent about gaelic games, totally ignorant about gaelic games. Never had  anything more than the slightest contact with gaelic games. It's not a question of  liking or having indifference to gaelic games, it's that you have what can only be regarded as a chronic  unionist antagonist connection to gaelic games one that is only associated with reactionary unionists. Usually, no matter what antipathy a person has to gaelic games, one can scratch a bit and see what's under it.
it's like your name,  a 99.9% probability that you  had not read Brian O'Nolan, before picking a pen name of his when registering here. It was picked to create a false impression.

Quote from: Main Street on October 19, 2013, 06:49:22 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 06:18:19 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
There is little point arguing with this clown.

I had a look through his previous postings and on the same topic a number of years ago he referred to the GAA in NI as "basically Sinn Fein in football boots".

This from a man who claims not to be a Unionist.

An Irish nationalist is someone who believes that Ireland is one country which should be independent and governed as a 32 county state. It is possible to hold that view and, simultaneously, to be indifferent about gaelic games and Sinn Fein. So what point are you trying to make, clown?

It's even possible to be a nationalist and be a right wing reactionary, idiot and a liar.
What are your probabilities, clown? A liar for sure and not just indifferent about gaelic games, totally ignorant about gaelic games. Never had  anything more than the slightest contact with gaelic games. It's not a question of  liking or having indifference to gaelic games, it's that you have what can only be regarded as a chronic  unionist antagonist connection to gaelic games one that is only associated with reactionary unionists. Usually, no matter what antipathy a person has to gaelic games, one can scratch a bit and see what's under it.
it's like your name,  a 99.9% probability that you  had not read Brian O'Nolan, before picking a pen name of his when registering here. It was picked to create a false impression.

I'm indifferent to gaelic games, not antagonistic towards them at all. The actual games, that is. I played both gaelic football and hurling as a child, both at school and with a club. I lost interest as I got older, preferring both soccer and rugby. I still watch the odd gaelic football match on tv, but I wouldn't call myself a fan. The GAA as an organisation does antagonise me because I see it as a reactionary body stuck in the past and too close in politics to Sinn Fein. As for my interest in Myles - I've a decent 2:1 degree in English from a reputable British university that says that I have more than a passing interest in literature. What have you got, amadon?

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 07:07:38 PM

Quote from: Main Street on October 19, 2013, 06:49:22 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 06:18:19 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
There is little point arguing with this clown.

I had a look through his previous postings and on the same topic a number of years ago he referred to the GAA in NI as "basically Sinn Fein in football boots".

This from a man who claims not to be a Unionist.

An Irish nationalist is someone who believes that Ireland is one country which should be independent and governed as a 32 county state. It is possible to hold that view and, simultaneously, to be indifferent about gaelic games and Sinn Fein. So what point are you trying to make, clown?

It's even possible to be a nationalist and be a right wing reactionary, idiot and a liar.
What are your probabilities, clown? A liar for sure and not just indifferent about gaelic games, totally ignorant about gaelic games. Never had  anything more than the slightest contact with gaelic games. It's not a question of  liking or having indifference to gaelic games, it's that you have what can only be regarded as a chronic  unionist antagonist connection to gaelic games one that is only associated with reactionary unionists. Usually, no matter what antipathy a person has to gaelic games, one can scratch a bit and see what's under it.
it's like your name,  a 99.9% probability that you  had not read Brian O'Nolan, before picking a pen name of his when registering here. It was picked to create a false impression.

I'm indifferent to gaelic games, not antagonistic towards them at all. The actual games, that is. I played both gaelic football and hurling as a child, both at school and with a club. I lost interest as I got older, preferring both soccer and rugby. I still watch the odd gaelic football match on tv, but I wouldn't call myself a fan. The GAA as an organisation does antagonise me because I see it as a reactionary body stuck in the past and too close in politics to Sinn Fein. As for my interest in Myles - I've a decent 2:1 degree in English from a reputable British university that says that I have more than a passing interest in literature. What have you got, amadon?

Oooooh, get her! What a complete w**ker you are...

Brolly's f**king dead right, it is nobodies business if a nationalist based organisation commemorates individuals who fought and died for their nation's independence. Queen's University, Craigavon and  many other 'namings' could be deemed offensive to nationalists, I don't see them shouting their mouths off about it.  It is time for people to accept that the 'Troubles' was a war and that there are people who died during it are deemed as heros by a lot of people.  The GAA should not be used as a political tool for tools like Allister. If you have a problem with it do what we were told to do with the RUC, join up and change from within,  if you're not prepared to that piss off with your opinions.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

Are you Gregory Campbell? You certainly sound like him.

Dungiven just up the road from me, kevin Lynchs have have won alot of hurling championships in derry, the lads playing now will maybe be only vaguely aware of why the hurling is not called dungiven, they not care they are there to play hurling, the committee who renamed the hurling club and the reasons and political climate at the times it was understandable why they renamed the club, these days no club would name a club under a players name been guilty of certain activities, changed times, but to ask to rename the club now after 30 odd yrs who now has a hurling tradition that is wrong, should they have named the club after him, looking at it 30yrs later probably no but at the time its what Dungiven wanted.

My issue with renamed the club is that unionists are only using this to bitch about over the past couple of yrs when they cant get their ownway any more. Its up to Dungiven what they want to do with the name in the future, no the Gaa nobody brought it up to recently, why no southern outcry before.

The washington redskins are getting the same hassle to rename their team to was it deemed racist. On another matter was Eamon de Valera not in the Ira and responsible for peoples death, yet u picked him president of ireland, like i said circumstances change over time!!

Myles if as you have said you haven't much of an interest in the gaa would do you bother with this forum, i have noticed on other topics u bring aloot of friction with certain posters, sometimes i agree with u other times not, i have a big interest in the gaa and can understand why i post on here, i don't know why u bother if u have only a passing interest. Are u not better posting on soccer or rugby forums if that's what u into??

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 19, 2013, 08:08:41 PM
Dungiven just up the road from me, kevin Lynchs have have won alot of hurling championships in derry, the lads playing now will maybe be only vaguely aware of why the hurling is not called dungiven, they not care they are there to play hurling, the committee who renamed the hurling club and the reasons and political climate at the times it was understandable why they renamed the club, these days no club would name a club under a players name been guilty of certain activities, changed times, but to ask to rename the club now after 30 odd yrs who now has a hurling tradition that is wrong, should they have named the club after him, looking at it 30yrs later probably no but at the time its what Dungiven wanted.

My issue with renamed the club is that unionists are only using this to bitch about over the past couple of yrs when they cant get their ownway any more. Its up to Dungiven what they want to do with the name in the future, no the Gaa nobody brought it up to recently, why no southern outcry before.

The washington redskins are getting the same hassle to rename their team to was it deemed racist. On another matter was Eamon de Valera not in the Ira and responsible for peoples death, yet u picked him president of ireland, like i said circumstances change over time!!

Agree.

There is a difference, from a Gaa Club using a name offensive to Unionists which let's face it, has little or no impact on them versus their long history of demonstrations which cause chaos to everyone, including the economy on which they themselves rely.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 19, 2013, 08:22:07 PM
Myles if as you have said you haven't much of an interest in the gaa would do you bother with this forum, i have noticed on other topics u bring aloot of friction with certain posters, sometimes i agree with u other times not, i have a big interest in the gaa and can understand why i post on here, i don't know why u bother if u have only a passing interest. Are u not better posting on soccer or rugby forums if that's what u into??

He is posting in the Non-GAA Discussion section.

Reading this thread I would make the following observations.

Technically Brolly and others are right.It's no one's business other than the individual club's, who they choose to name themselves after.

But,unfortunately this does have wider ramifications about how the club, and by extension, the association is perceived by non GAA communities.

Now we know all about the arguments, discrimination,abuse meted out to GAA members by security forces,loyalist paramilitaries,but we are where we are,in 2013, and if we are seeking to build bridges,it might be better if clubs steered clear of politics altogether in terms of names,tournaments etc.

Would we not all be up in arms (pardon the pun) if Shankhill Lenny Murphys were competing in a local junior soccer league.Would any of us think of even joining such a club?

Ok lads own up,  who worked out Tonys password?

yes it doesnt sit well with some, even when i was young i didnt know why dungiven hurling was Kevin lynchs, i thought it was a team outside dungiven, i didnt know any better, to come now to this club and tell them to change their name for the better good of the gaa will not work, it will actually have the opposite effect round dungiven and they will never drop it and would probably just stop hurling if forced to change it by the gaa authorities. the gaa is been getting lotto funding etc but has dungiven ever got any which seems to be an easy brush to beat them with. Abit of tact from J brolly was required on the issue, but asking a gaa man and not a dungiven man would probably have went down better, the bbc knew brollys stance before they even asked him given his father background.

Compare this to Robinson underhand outbrust about selling land to Catholics, which deserved the more air time saying Robinson supposed to represent all of the north communities, but is as sectarian as they come only in a very underhand way, too worried about the money more than anything

Quote from: CD on October 19, 2013, 04:49:59 PM
From a PR perspective the custom of commemorating those who fought and died for their beliefs is a major headache for the GAA. I have no issue with it whatsoever but I am very proud of the GAA and what it stands for as a cultural and sporting organisation. I want to see my association portrayed in the best possible light at all times and I feel that naming a GAA ground, competition or team after a deceased member of the IRA or any other organisation, is counterproductive. It goes against the inclusive message that we are trying our damnedest to get out there and it is used by others to demean and belittle our beloved organisation AND the memories of those we are attempting to commemorate.
I just don't feel it is appropriate in 2013 - the GAA is a modern and forward thinking organisation that continues to grow from strength to strength and has become the very backbone of many of our communities.

Maybe we should grow with it.

If you take your argument to its logical conclusion you will have to include Sam Maguire, Dan Breen, Casement Park, Sarsfields, Wolfe Tone's, John Mitchels etc and rename the lot of them. If not, were do you want to draw the line? Who gets to define who were the Good Republicans and who were the Bad ones? Like you say at the heart of the GAA are the small Parishes dotted throughout the country. The clubs themselves are defined by the people that live in that area and their experiences. Like it or not, in the North many of those experiences involved the troubles and the memories are still fairly painful on both sides. Time heals all wounds. View if any people would bat an eyelid at the Dan Breen Cup. Who's to say in 15 - 20 years time it won't be the same for the Kevin Lynch's Club. I often feel that as an organisation we in the GAA are obsessed with the opinions of others and how we are perceived.  I mean considering what some members of the Clergy perpetrated against the people should we start removing Religious names from grounds/trophies as well? 
            In my opinion Joe Brolly was right, it really is no one else's business.         

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 07:07:38 PM

Quote from: Main Street on October 19, 2013, 06:49:22 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 06:18:19 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
There is little point arguing with this clown.

I had a look through his previous postings and on the same topic a number of years ago he referred to the GAA in NI as "basically Sinn Fein in football boots".

This from a man who claims not to be a Unionist.

An Irish nationalist is someone who believes that Ireland is one country which should be independent and governed as a 32 county state. It is possible to hold that view and, simultaneously, to be indifferent about gaelic games and Sinn Fein. So what point are you trying to make, clown?

It's even possible to be a nationalist and be a right wing reactionary, idiot and a liar.
What are your probabilities, clown? A liar for sure and not just indifferent about gaelic games, totally ignorant about gaelic games. Never had  anything more than the slightest contact with gaelic games. It's not a question of  liking or having indifference to gaelic games, it's that you have what can only be regarded as a chronic  unionist antagonist connection to gaelic games one that is only associated with reactionary unionists. Usually, no matter what antipathy a person has to gaelic games, one can scratch a bit and see what's under it.
it's like your name,  a 99.9% probability that you  had not read Brian O'Nolan, before picking a pen name of his when registering here. It was picked to create a false impression.

I'm indifferent to gaelic games, not antagonistic towards them at all. The actual games, that is. I played both gaelic football and hurling as a child, both at school and with a club. I lost interest as I got older, preferring both soccer and rugby. I still watch the odd gaelic football match on tv, but I wouldn't call myself a fan. The GAA as an organisation does antagonise me because I see it as a reactionary body stuck in the past and too close in politics to Sinn Fein. As for my interest in Myles - I've a decent 2:1 degree in English from a reputable British university that says that I have more than a passing interest in literature. What have you got, amadon?

I never seen a worse post on this board in my life.

So we have Robinson misquoted (he never said land shouldn't be sold to Catholics/republicans/ nationalists,merely pointed out Allister's hypocrisy) and whataboutery.

As I said,I don't think any GAA clubs should be named after anyone with political affiliations,as to do so will obviously leave it open to accusations of being partisan.

Quote from: T Fearon on October 19, 2013, 08:59:15 PM
Reading this thread I would make the following observations.

Technically Brolly and others are right.It's no one's business other than the individual club's, who they choose to name themselves after.

But,unfortunately this does have wider ramifications about how the club, and by extension, the association is perceived by non GAA communities.

Now we know all about the arguments, discrimination,abuse meted out to GAA members by security forces,loyalist paramilitaries,but we are where we are,in 2013, and if we are seeking to build bridges,it might be better if clubs steered clear of politics altogether in terms of names,tournaments etc.

Would we not all be up in arms (pardon the pun) if Shankhill Lenny Murphys were competing in a local junior soccer league.Would any of us think of even joining such a club?

Tony, i think you are correct in all your points there.

I as a Unionist don't expect or even dare i say it, believe these clubs should be re named.

I don't believe any more clubs or trophies in the future should be named after people
who most people view as terrorists though.

To do this in the future only gives ammo to GAA haters.

Jim Allister is a twat anyway and Joe Brolly just loves to get him-self in print/press.

The GAA is not about appeasing unionists or anyone else.If is about outreach though,hey there was a big dinner last Thursday celebrating this! Unfortunately though this is being hampered somewhat by the names controversy.

I think it's also unfair to name any club after a deceased member.After all,who is to say that any deceased member is better than any other or more deserving than any other as an accolade.

No doubt the names issue will go, as did the ban on foreign games,playing foreign games at Croke Park,ban on British forces etc, all went, in the name of progress and ensuring grant money flows on.

That's back to whataboutery again I'm afraid.

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

+1

Never had time for Brolly, never will.
He's sitting now on Malone Road laughing at the new debate he's caused.

Are they going to rename Craigavon?

I have said it before but shit like this takes the attention off the gabshite loyalists who are making themselves look like cnuts on a daily basis.. Brolly would have been better keeping his trap shut.

Quote from: theticklemister on October 19, 2013, 10:06:15 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 07:07:38 PM

Quote from: Main Street on October 19, 2013, 06:49:22 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 06:18:19 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
There is little point arguing with this clown.

I had a look through his previous postings and on the same topic a number of years ago he referred to the GAA in NI as "basically Sinn Fein in football boots".

This from a man who claims not to be a Unionist.

An Irish nationalist is someone who believes that Ireland is one country which should be independent and governed as a 32 county state. It is possible to hold that view and, simultaneously, to be indifferent about gaelic games and Sinn Fein. So what point are you trying to make, clown?

It's even possible to be a nationalist and be a right wing reactionary, idiot and a liar.
What are your probabilities, clown? A liar for sure and not just indifferent about gaelic games, totally ignorant about gaelic games. Never had  anything more than the slightest contact with gaelic games. It's not a question of  liking or having indifference to gaelic games, it's that you have what can only be regarded as a chronic  unionist antagonist connection to gaelic games one that is only associated with reactionary unionists. Usually, no matter what antipathy a person has to gaelic games, one can scratch a bit and see what's under it.
it's like your name,  a 99.9% probability that you  had not read Brian O'Nolan, before picking a pen name of his when registering here. It was picked to create a false impression.

I'm indifferent to gaelic games, not antagonistic towards them at all. The actual games, that is. I played both gaelic football and hurling as a child, both at school and with a club. I lost interest as I got older, preferring both soccer and rugby. I still watch the odd gaelic football match on tv, but I wouldn't call myself a fan. The GAA as an organisation does antagonise me because I see it as a reactionary body stuck in the past and too close in politics to Sinn Fein. As for my interest in Myles - I've a decent 2:1 degree in English from a reputable British university that says that I have more than a passing interest in literature. What have you got, amadon?

I never seen a worse post on this board in my life.

That's the funniest post I've ever read on this board. And there are some very funny posts on this board.

How the hell can you be indifferent to the GAA when you clearly have strong opinions on GAA matters ya toolbag.

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

The contemporary v historic terrorist arguement was well shot down on The BBC Sunday Sequence programme when Jim Allister refused to accept that Edward Carson was a terrorist

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

As long as openly anti-GAA doesn't involve assaulting GAA members, burning out Clubhouses/damaging GAA property or in anyway disrupting its activities that's fine by me.

Quote from: grounded on October 20, 2013, 12:06:15 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

As long as openly anti-GAA doesn't involve assaulting GAA members, burning out Clubhouses/damaging GAA property or in anyway disrupting its activities that's fine by me.

I'm pretty sure that most unionists have in the past and will continue to meet your request.

Meanwhile, unionists can expect to do whatever they like because it's no business of anyone else (Brolly, 2013) and can expect that nationalists will not burn out or attack Orange Order property or, in any way, disrupt its activities.

Yes, that's a solution, both communities can live side by side, doing whatever they like but simultaneously pretend that the other side doesn't exist.  Why didn't we think of that before?

Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 20, 2013, 12:03:12 AM
The contemporary v historic terrorist arguement was well shot down on The BBC Sunday Sequence programme when Jim Allister refused to accept that Edward Carson was a terrorist

What illegal organisation was Carson a member of?

QuoteWhat illegal organisation was Carson a member of?

Like Gerry Adams, he probably wasn't in any illegal organisations.

Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2013, 12:16:29 AM

QuoteWhat illegal organisation was Carson a member of?

Like Gerry Adams, he probably wasn't in any illegal organisations.

I didn't ask anything about Gerry Adams.

Quote from: Tonto on October 20, 2013, 12:13:32 AM

Quote from: grounded on October 20, 2013, 12:06:15 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

As long as openly anti-GAA doesn't involve assaulting GAA members, burning out Clubhouses/damaging GAA property or in anyway disrupting its activities that's fine by me.

I'm pretty sure that most unionists have in the past and will continue to meet your request.

Meanwhile, unionists can expect to do whatever they like because it's no business of anyone else (Brolly, 2013) and can expect that nationalists will not burn out or attack Orange Order property or, in any way, disrupt its activities.

Yes, that's a solution, both communities can live side by side, doing whatever they like but simultaneously pretend that the other side doesn't exist.  Why didn't we think of that before?

Just interested on your views on this one. Dan Breen was a leading member of the IRA during the war of independence and would have fulfilled all your criteria of a terrorist. The Dan Breen cup is presented each year in Tipperary. Is this acceptable in your eyes?

Quote from: grounded on October 20, 2013, 12:25:20 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 20, 2013, 12:13:32 AM

Quote from: grounded on October 20, 2013, 12:06:15 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

As long as openly anti-GAA doesn't involve assaulting GAA members, burning out Clubhouses/damaging GAA property or in anyway disrupting its activities that's fine by me.

I'm pretty sure that most unionists have in the past and will continue to meet your request.

Meanwhile, unionists can expect to do whatever they like because it's no business of anyone else (Brolly, 2013) and can expect that nationalists will not burn out or attack Orange Order property or, in any way, disrupt its activities.

Yes, that's a solution, both communities can live side by side, doing whatever they like but simultaneously pretend that the other side doesn't exist.  Why didn't we think of that before?

Just interested on your views on this one. Dan Breen was a leading member of the IRA during the war of independence and would have fulfilled all your criteria of a terrorist. The Dan Breen cup is presented each year in Tipperary. Is this acceptable in your eyes?

When this was last debated on here it was said that it was acceptable as long as it was far enough back in history. Some people mentioned a 100 years, some less than that. Living memory was also mentioned.

So is it the Dan Breen cup acceptable ?

Quote from: grounded on October 20, 2013, 12:25:20 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 20, 2013, 12:13:32 AM

Quote from: grounded on October 20, 2013, 12:06:15 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

As long as openly anti-GAA doesn't involve assaulting GAA members, burning out Clubhouses/damaging GAA property or in anyway disrupting its activities that's fine by me.

I'm pretty sure that most unionists have in the past and will continue to meet your request.

Meanwhile, unionists can expect to do whatever they like because it's no business of anyone else (Brolly, 2013) and can expect that nationalists will not burn out or attack Orange Order property or, in any way, disrupt its activities.

Yes, that's a solution, both communities can live side by side, doing whatever they like but simultaneously pretend that the other side doesn't exist.  Why didn't we think of that before?

Just interested on your views on this one. Dan Breen was a leading member of the IRA during the war of independence and would have fulfilled all your criteria of a terrorist. The Dan Breen cup is presented each year in Tipperary. Is this acceptable in your eyes?

He was a terrorist to my mind (and based on the little information I have just read, a Nazi supporter). I do, however, accept that, enough time has now passed since he carried out his activities to deem it less offensive, so I would be in no rush to have things like that changed.

That said, shooting someone in the 1920s has the same end result as doing it in the 1970s or in 2012.  I think it's clear that, from this point on, the GAA really need to look at how they act.  They can't, in 2013, do the same things that they did 100 years ago if they are really serious about promoting better community relations.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 07:07:38 PM

Quote from: Main Street on October 19, 2013, 06:49:22 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 06:18:19 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
There is little point arguing with this clown.

I had a look through his previous postings and on the same topic a number of years ago he referred to the GAA in NI as "basically Sinn Fein in football boots".

This from a man who claims not to be a Unionist.

An Irish nationalist is someone who believes that Ireland is one country which should be independent and governed as a 32 county state. It is possible to hold that view and, simultaneously, to be indifferent about gaelic games and Sinn Fein. So what point are you trying to make, clown?

It's even possible to be a nationalist and be a right wing reactionary, idiot and a liar.
What are your probabilities, clown? A liar for sure and not just indifferent about gaelic games, totally ignorant about gaelic games. Never had  anything more than the slightest contact with gaelic games. It's not a question of  liking or having indifference to gaelic games, it's that you have what can only be regarded as a chronic  unionist antagonist connection to gaelic games one that is only associated with reactionary unionists. Usually, no matter what antipathy a person has to gaelic games, one can scratch a bit and see what's under it.
it's like your name,  a 99.9% probability that you  had not read Brian O'Nolan, before picking a pen name of his when registering here. It was picked to create a false impression.

I'm indifferent to gaelic games, not antagonistic towards them at all. The actual games, that is. I played both gaelic football and hurling as a child, both at school and with a club. I lost interest as I got older, preferring both soccer and rugby. I still watch the odd gaelic football match on tv, but I wouldn't call myself a fan. The GAA as an organisation does antagonise me because I see it as a reactionary body stuck in the past and too close in politics to Sinn Fein.As for my interest in Myles - I've a decent 2:1 degree in English from a reputable British university that says that I have more than a passing interest in literature. What have you got, amadon?

Wtf?

Tonto...the way unionist power brokers treated the nationalist community as second class citizens for decades are you telling me that any military response and support from sections of the nationalist community to that "fight back" had nothing to do with unionism? It absolutely did so if anything we should all accept the part both sides contributed to the troubles.

If we can see that then the whataboutery argument disappears and we can accept that in a lot of communities these men were seen to be fighting their corner because of the political bias. It is what it is because of our history. This is a reason for people who have zero interest in the GAA to blacken what is one of the  best organisations in the world. Take this argument away and as HS suggested the next reason will present itself.

I personally have many friends from the protestant community who could testify to what the GAA brings to a local community. Real shame the hard liners want to believe what they want to believe

It suits a very particular agenda for unionists/loyalists to associate the handful of GAA teams perceived as controversially named with violent republicanism. It is downright dangerous and totally misrepresents the Association. I had the privilege of being amongst the 82,000 in Croke Park for the first Clare v Cork match and believe it or not the IRA and Sinn Fein didn't feature heavily that day. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for OO days out which tend to be hate filled.

Quote from: hardstation on October 20, 2013, 12:43:26 AM
Can I ask for the name of Cromwell Road to be changed?

Thanks.

Now we are moving into the world of politics.

Cromwell Road in return for say Kevin Lynches.

Piss off a few Unionists here for a Gaa club there.

Next trade please?

Quote from: hardstation on October 20, 2013, 12:43:26 AM
Can I ask for the name of Cromwell Road to be changed?

Thanks.

Populated almost entirely of Catholic students and GAA people from QUB and the Poly.

Sadly, these names like Rossa or St Gall's have no connection to the current generation bar a few.

I'd be shocked if a third of the current St Gall's side knew who St Gall was or would care to know.

Quote from: Tonto on October 20, 2013, 12:36:27 AM

Quote from: grounded on October 20, 2013, 12:25:20 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 20, 2013, 12:13:32 AM

Quote from: grounded on October 20, 2013, 12:06:15 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

As long as openly anti-GAA doesn't involve assaulting GAA members, burning out Clubhouses/damaging GAA property or in anyway disrupting its activities that's fine by me.

I'm pretty sure that most unionists have in the past and will continue to meet your request.

Meanwhile, unionists can expect to do whatever they like because it's no business of anyone else (Brolly, 2013) and can expect that nationalists will not burn out or attack Orange Order property or, in any way, disrupt its activities.

Yes, that's a solution, both communities can live side by side, doing whatever they like but simultaneously pretend that the other side doesn't exist.  Why didn't we think of that before?

Just interested on your views on this one. Dan Breen was a leading member of the IRA during the war of independence and would have fulfilled all your criteria of a terrorist. The Dan Breen cup is presented each year in Tipperary. Is this acceptable in your eyes?

He was a terrorist to my mind (and based on the little information I have just read, a Nazi supporter). I do, however, accept that, enough time has now passed since he carried out his activities to deem it less offensive, so I would be in no rush to have things like that changed.

That said, shooting someone in the 1920s has the same end result as doing it in the 1970s or in 2012.  I think it's clear that, from this point on, the GAA really need to look at how they act.  They can't, in 2013, do the same things that they did 100 years ago if they are really serious about promoting better community relations.

So the logic of the argument is ' old Terrorist that I can't remember is ok, but recent terrorist is bad '
I take your point about promoting better community relations but the inherent ethos of the GAA is not compatible with the current thinking of Unionism. For the likes of Jim Allister, it will never be acceptable because of those core ethos, its political old boy. Thankfully the GAA accepts people from every section of society regardless of their race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc. In the South religion doesn't seem to be an issue for aspiring GAA members(accepted the disgraceful sectarian remarks re Drew Wylie in Monaghan) and appears not to be a barrier to rising up the ladder of officialdom. 
           Frankly asking the GAA to change these core ethos is akin to asking the Orange order to admit Catholics or to allow their members to attend a catholic ceremony without the fear of being expelled. I can accept that from the orange order, that is part of their core beliefs. However, parading into neighbourhoods and disrupting other people's everyday lives is another thing. Doesn't give anyone the right to assault any LOL members, damage their property or disrupt their lawful day to day business.
         As to your point
'Yes, that's a solution, both communities can live side by side, doing whatever they like but simultaneously pretend that the other side doesn't exist.  Why didn't we think of that before'?
         Hopefully with the gradual normalisation of society here there will be an increase in the level of integration between the two communities starting with schooling. Its only when the dinosaurs die off that things will move on 

Quote from: Tonto on October 20, 2013, 12:15:04 AM

Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 20, 2013, 12:03:12 AM
The contemporary v historic terrorist arguement was well shot down on The BBC Sunday Sequence programme when Jim Allister refused to accept that Edward Carson was a terrorist

What illegal organisation was Carson a member of?

He set up and armed a militia that was prepared to fight against the Government. That in my mind is enough to be getting on with

It's still whataboutery though.I see in the paper today Allister argues it's not just the club's business who it names itself after,and says the £245k in public grants allocated to Kevin lynch Hurling Club Dungiven makes it everybody's business.

Now you can indulge in whataboutery,argue violence was necessary and indeed moral,but in 2013,is the naming of clubs after combatants going to help or hinder the outreach project?

Quote from: theskull1 on October 20, 2013, 01:00:37 AM
Tonto...are you telling me that any military response and support from sections of the nationalist community to that "fight back" had nothing to do with unionism?

Well firstly, I never said anything even remotely like that.

Secondly, I wouldn't consider it a 'military', but a 'paramilitary' response.

Thirdly, there were those who took a peaceful line against the injustices of bygone years and I have infinitely more respect for those people than I do for those who CHOSE the path of violence.

Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 20, 2013, 09:50:53 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 20, 2013, 12:15:04 AM

Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 20, 2013, 12:03:12 AM
The contemporary v historic terrorist arguement was well shot down on The BBC Sunday Sequence programme when Jim Allister refused to accept that Edward Carson was a terrorist

What illegal organisation was Carson a member of?

He set up and armed a militia that was prepared to fight against the Government. That in my mind is enough to be getting on with

The Ulster Volunteers were not an illegal organisation. 

There is also a difference between sabre rattling and actual willingness to carry out actions.  Besides, the Curragh Mutiny meant that they wouldn't have had anyone to fight against!

It is a fact that one of the reasons for the formation of the UVF was as an attempt to bring discipline into the loyalist community to help prevent mass sectarian murder.

The only people killed by members of the UVF in the period 1913-1918 (which is the only period we are referring to as far as Carson is concerned) were on the battlefields of WWI when they fought and died alongside, not against, the Irish Volunteers.

To compare the UVF (or, indeed, the IVF) of 1913-1914 to the PIRA or the INLA is ludicrous and quite frankly betrays a breathtaking ignorance of your own history.

Don't play semantics here. I don't give 2 tosses what the legal status of the Ulster Volunteers was. As far as any right minded person is concerned any man who arms a militia with the intent of fighting a decision taken by a Government is a terrorist. But this goes to the crux of another issue. For the past 90 years we have heard unionists cast scorn on those who tried to influence things by any means other than democracy. Now that the demographics are changing and they don't have the majority thus allowing Belfast Council to take the flag decision suddenly activities from which violence is an inevitable consequence are ok. 

Quote from: ONeill on October 20, 2013, 01:37:44 AM
Sadly, these names like Rossa or St Gall's have no connection to the current generation bar a few.

I'd be shocked if a third of the current St Gall's side knew who St Gall was or would care to know.

Or St Pauls, St Johns and I'd be really shocked if most members of clubs that have saints names as their club name would know.

Quote from: Tonto on October 20, 2013, 11:24:29 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on October 20, 2013, 01:00:37 AM
Tonto...are you telling me that any military response and support from sections of the nationalist community to that "fight back" had nothing to do with unionism?

Well firstly, I never said anything even remotely like that.

Secondly, I wouldn't consider it a 'military', but a 'paramilitary' response.

Thirdly, there were those who took a peaceful line against the injustices of bygone years and I have infinitely more respect for those people than I do for those who CHOSE the path of violence.

Re.. Your third point

I'm asking you to try to 'understand' not to respect their decision to take up arms (which is how I view it). Across the nationalist demographic the lack of respect and rights given to them for decades was going to result on some thinking it was the only way. Its a very base instinct to abhor what took place during the troubles (it was a shameful part of our past), but both sides of the community have to accept and understand the deep seated reasons why people rightly or wrongly took up arms. Unionist intransigence has a lot to answer for. We can move on to a better place if we accept that we all had a part to play in creating the monster.

That money (grant) did it not go to dungiven football club not Keven Lynch and yes i now they both play on the same pitch,

They used to but not anymore. KLs have their own pitch

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 20, 2013, 01:08:25 PM
That money (grant) did it not go to dungiven football club not Keven Lynch and yes i now they both play on the same pitch,

Where have u been? Kevin Lynch's no longer play on St. Canice's pitch. They got their own pitch maybe 5 years ago...

I knew there was a 2nd pitch but thought it was joint use by both teams, the way Bellaghy, Ballinderry and other clubs has 2 pitches

Quote from: theskull1 on October 20, 2013, 01:00:37 AM
Tonto...the way unionist power brokers treated the nationalist community as second class citizens for decades are you telling me that any military response and support from sections of the nationalist community to that "fight back" had nothing to do with unionism? It absolutely did so if anything we should all accept the part both sides contributed to the troubles.

If we can see that then the whataboutery argument disappears and we can accept that in a lot of communities these men were seen to be fighting their corner because of the political bias. It is what it is because of our history. This is a reason for people who have zero interest in the GAA to blacken what is one of the  best organisations in the world. Take this argument away and as HS suggested the next reason will present itself.

I personally have many friends from the protestant community who could testify to what the GAA brings to a local community. Real shame the hard liners want to believe what they want to believe

The IRA's so called armed struggle wasn't aimed at reforming the north - republicans were always clear about that. It was about ending partition. Neither was it a new struggle. It was a continuation of IRA campaigns which had been running in every decade since the the 1920s. The outbreak of inter communal violence at the end of the 1960s was the fuel republicans used to re energise what was an old struggle.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 20, 2013, 01:30:09 PM
. The outbreak of inter communal violence at the end of the 1960s was the fuel republicans used to re energise what was an old struggle.

Inter Communal violence as you call it started by Unionists trying to prevent non violent Civil rights marches.
This violence was brought to a new level on Bloody Sunday and certainly strengthened the PIRA cause as it seemed the only way to get anywhere.
And of course the gun was first brought into Irish politics in the 20th Century by Carson and his terrorists resisting the will of the majority of the Irish people and their own Parliament.

Even Malachi O'Doherty has said that it's the view of one club in Dungiven. Malachi isn't reknowned for his like of republicanism, to put it mildly.

Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2013, 02:31:02 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 20, 2013, 01:30:09 PM
. The outbreak of inter communal violence at the end of the 1960s was the fuel republicans used to re energise what was an old struggle.

Inter Communal violence as you call it started by Unionists trying to prevent non violent Civil rights marches.
This violence was brought to a new level on Bloody Sunday and certainly strengthened the PIRA cause as it seemed the only way to get anywhere.
And of course the gun was first brought into Irish politics in the 20th Century by Carson and his terrorists resisting the will of the majority of the Irish people and their own Parliament.

That fact that it was unionists, led by Paisley and his followers, who triggered the violence isn't disputed by too many people. Bloody Sunday undoubtedly brought levels of violence to a new level, but don't forget that the IRA had already killed well over 100 people by that stage, more than the British Army, the RUC and loyalist paramiltaries put together. As for Carson being the person who introduced the gun into 20th century Irish politics, many would argue that the IRB have a better claim to this achievement.

The IRB was a minor little bunch of extremists until the Irish Volunteers were formed AFTER Carson's threats of terrorism and gun running.
The IRB only began to get anywhere after the Volunteers split over Redmond deciding to fight for the Brits even though Home Rule wasn't yet introduced.

On one hand, I have some understanding over the naming of the Kevin Lynch's club - on the basis that he was by all accounts a great hurler. Although I wonder if he'd have had that honour if he hadn't died under the circumstances he did.

From the wider GAA perspective, I think it's unfortunate that the club is named as such. I'm all for outreach, although I wouldn't be bending over backwards for the likes of Gregory Campbell or Jim Allister - they've no interest in being friends of the GAA no matter what we do. At the same time, the name of this club, and a handful of competitions, is an open goal for the GAA's critics - a stick to beat the Association with.

I also think that Joe Brolly's input was less than helpful - it could have been a bit more diplomatic. The 'like it or lump it' attitude on a matter like this isn't consistent with being serious about getting those from a Protestant background involved.

Our own club had protestants playing for us at underage it was no big deal, we were a small club and welcomed the additional input, Willie anderson lad would have been playing for the loop round the same time. The only problem arose was that the lads got hassle at their local high school when it was found out they were playing gaelic football, so basically outside of one of them an English lad the rest dropped off out of been hassled. in saying that we wouldnt have made it known to other clubs who the lads were, encase they did receive any abuse, teenagers do say silly things without knowing they can cross the line.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 20, 2013, 05:21:45 PM
Our own club had protestants playing for us at underage it was no big deal, we were a small club and welcomed the additional input, Willie anderson lad would have been playing for the loop round the same time. The only problem arose was that the lads got hassle at their local high school when it was found out they were playing gaelic football, so basically outside of one of them an English lad the rest dropped off out of been hassled. in saying that we wouldnt have made it known to other clubs who the lads were, encase they did receive any abuse, teenagers do say silly things without knowing they can cross the line.

Unfortunately it's not just teenagers.

Mike Nesbitt leader of the Ulster Unionist Party at the Down County Final today.

Don't know why Brolly didn't reference to his Gaelic Life piece on the issue of Kevin Lynchs. It said all that was needed on the issue of the naming of the Dungiven club.

The "f**k off if you don't like" attitude damaged the GAA position and is also a copy of the knuckle dragging PUL groups attitude that is quite rightly ridiculed on this board.

Quote from: Feckitt on October 20, 2013, 06:12:59 PM
Mike Nesbitt leader of the Ulster Unionist Party at the Down County Final today.

His wife is from Kilcoo.

Quote from: Agent Orange on October 21, 2013, 12:02:36 AM

Quote from: Feckitt on October 20, 2013, 06:12:59 PM
Mike Nesbitt leader of the Ulster Unionist Party at the Down County Final today.

His wife is from Kilcoo.

Did she have any family playing in the match today ?

Or was this just to appeal to the moderates ?

Members of the the GAA should never hide away their involvement in our games. Its only a problem to people with the mindset of Jim Alistair. There's no way people like him should shame anyone from discussing their passion for it because its all good foreby the odd headline grabber. Protestant communities would really benefit from being involved if they could only find the confidence to do so.

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

Quote from: Agent Orange on October 21, 2013, 12:02:36 AM

Quote from: Feckitt on October 20, 2013, 06:12:59 PM
Mike Nesbitt leader of the Ulster Unionist Party at the Down County Final today.

His wife is from Kilcoo.

How did he manage for the National anthem??

Quote from: trileacman on October 20, 2013, 11:43:26 PM
Don't know why Brolly didn't reference to his Gaelic Life piece on the issue of Kevin Lynchs. It said all that was needed on the issue of the naming of the Dungiven club.

The "f**k off if you don't like" attitude damaged the GAA position and is also a copy of the knuckle dragging PUL groups attitude that is quite rightly ridiculed on this board.

The fck off if you don't like it attitude is the appropriate response to a bunch of politicans looking to put themselves at the vanguard of the loyalist fascist protest to the democratic process, like the UUP and their new found fanatic (jihadish) opposition to the proposed Maze centre and with this pick up a magnifying glass and lets look at  the odd gaa club.
We just might be collectively poisoned by the toxic discharge from republican tradition. And we all know, republicans are the true bogeymen in Ulster  ::)   It's the ulster tradition, kowtow to the chosen majority.

The Axis of evil,  British Army/Unionists/UDR/Loyalist murder gangs has broken up.  Just stand up to the political bullies and tell them to go to fck and to focus on something pro active for a change.

Sometimes reality breaks through the mesh of the media and the results are refreshing. They can also be embarrassing or infuriating or revelatory but they are always refreshing, because they're the voice of real life, not the media's version of real life, and that in itself is refreshing.


Such a rare moment came yesterday when Joe Brolly spoke about the fact that Dungiven's GAA club is named after Kevin Lynch, a local man who was a member of both the local hurling team and  the Derry county hurling team. He was also a member of the INLA and one of the ten men who died on hunger-strike in 1981. Joe said that he was proud that the club was named after Kevin Lynch and that it was nobody else's business what name the club chose. "If they don't like it, they can lump it".


You don't hear that kind of blunt language on air as a rule. To be fair to him, when the Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore spoke at a function in Derry last night he tiptoed delicately towards endorsing Joe's stand: "I think these are issues that the GAA decides. What we have to work at here is how we build bridges, how we move beyond the difficulties of the past".


Joe's remarks have been greeted with outrage from the TUV's Jim Allister. And I'd feel fairly safe in suggesting people like Gregory Campbell would be equally aghast. In which case  I sugggest Jim  and Gregory  be taken by the hand and brought on a guided tour of Belfast. They could start at Windsor Park. Maybe view the Queen's Bridge, check out the King's Hall,  look up at Windsor House, make their way down Royal Avenue,drive out to Carnmoney and zip along Prince Charles Way. Lots of people, it's true,  think this royal naming is a very good idea. Others, like nearly half the population of the state, think it's a pretty imperialist idea. But the bridges and buildings and roads have been named and I haven't heard anyone from the nationalist or republican community saying they were outraged or demanding a name-change.


Joe Brolly says the Dungiven club was named after Kevin Lynch because he played for the club and for the Derry Senior hurling team. I expect that's true. But I also expect that part of the reason the club was named after him was that he was one of ten men who died on hunger-strike rather than accept that republicans were common criminals.  You have to believe very firmly in an idea if you're prepared to die for it, in this case very slowly and very painfully.  So that kind of heroic resolve may well have been part of what the club admired in this local man.  Unionists of course will argue that the INLA and the IRA were groups of common criminals. Republicans, nationalists and most GAA members, I'd venture to suggest, see things rather differently.


The part of Joe's remark that strikes home with sharp-edged truth is "It's none of their business".  The 'they' he's referring to are those who would presume to tell the GAA, Sinn Féin, the Catholic Church, Catholic schools, the southern government - all sort of organisations and institutions to which they do not now  belong, never have belonged, and have no intention of ever belonging to - that they would presume to tell  these groupings how to manage their affairs. 


Fact: Gaelic games are not played on a competitive basis in any State/Protestant school, except you include Integrated schools. No unionist politician I can think of plays Gaelic games, no unionist that I know of attends Gaelic games. And yet unionist politicians would presume to tell the GAA how they should act, what names they should or should not use, what rules should govern their organisation. What next -  the proposed names of children born into republican/nationalist families  to be submitted to the likes of Jim and Gregory for approval, before proceeding with the infant's birth registration? 


There comes a point where, if you dance to the piper's every tune, the piper begins to feel contempt for you. Joe Brolly has just called time on the dancing. 















Posted by Jude Collins at 2:54:00 pm   
Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to Facebook

Is there any Unionist figure - a public figure, not an anonymous voice online - who could give a nuanced opinion on the scruples they might have about the GAA? Someone to say that they don't mind the GAA doing its own thing but many of the trappings of the association make them uncomfortable and it puts them off encouraging their children (I don't expect any adult to be converted to the joys of a sport) to participate? Offhand, Trevor Ringland is the only guy I can think of who might be capable of pricking GAA consciences on these matters. But instead, we get Jim Allister. It strikes me as being the same as the fleg issue - no Unionist figure is going to say anything in public that might see them outflanked by the extremists, thus leading to a race to see who can be the most extreme.

Quote from: deiseach on October 21, 2013, 01:11:50 PM
Is there any Unionist figure - a public figure, not an anonymous voice online - who could give a nuanced opinion on the scruples they might have about the GAA? Someone to say that they don't mind the GAA doing its own thing but many of the trappings of the association make them uncomfortable and it puts them off encouraging their children (I don't expect any adult to be converted to the joys of a sport) to participate? Offhand, Trevor Ringland is the only guy I can think of who might be capable of pricking GAA consciences on these matters. But instead, we get Jim Allister. It strikes me as being the same as the fleg issue - no Unionist figure is going to say anything in public that might see them outflanked by the extremists, thus leading to a race to see who can be the most extreme.

That's about the height of it. There's no "leading" going on within unionism because of the fear of losing electorate. Appealing to the lowest common denominator is where its at.

Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2013, 11:47:53 AM

Quote from: Agent Orange on October 21, 2013, 12:02:36 AM

Quote from: Feckitt on October 20, 2013, 06:12:59 PM
Mike Nesbitt leader of the Ulster Unionist Party at the Down County Final today.

His wife is from Kilcoo.

How did he manage for the National anthem??

Probably the same as everyone else, cringed the whole way through because it was so shit.

Quote from: glens abu on October 21, 2013, 12:55:46 PM
Sometimes reality breaks through the mesh of the media and the results are refreshing. They can also be embarrassing or infuriating or revelatory but they are always refreshing, because they're the voice of real life, not the media's version of real life, and that in itself is refreshing.


Such a rare moment came yesterday when Joe Brolly spoke about the fact that Dungiven's GAA club is named after Kevin Lynch, a local man who was a member of both the local hurling team and  the Derry county hurling team. He was also a member of the INLA and one of the ten men who died on hunger-strike in 1981. Joe said that he was proud that the club was named after Kevin Lynch and that it was nobody else's business what name the club chose. "If they don't like it, they can lump it".


You don't hear that kind of blunt language on air as a rule. To be fair to him, when the Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore spoke at a function in Derry last night he tiptoed delicately towards endorsing Joe's stand: "I think these are issues that the GAA decides. What we have to work at here is how we build bridges, how we move beyond the difficulties of the past".


Joe's remarks have been greeted with outrage from the TUV's Jim Allister. And I'd feel fairly safe in suggesting people like Gregory Campbell would be equally aghast. In which case  I sugggest Jim  and Gregory  be taken by the hand and brought on a guided tour of Belfast. They could start at Windsor Park. Maybe view the Queen's Bridge, check out the King's Hall,  look up at Windsor House, make their way down Royal Avenue,drive out to Carnmoney and zip along Prince Charles Way. Lots of people, it's true,  think this royal naming is a very good idea. Others, like nearly half the population of the state, think it's a pretty imperialist idea. But the bridges and buildings and roads have been named and I haven't heard anyone from the nationalist or republican community saying they were outraged or demanding a name-change.


Joe Brolly says the Dungiven club was named after Kevin Lynch because he played for the club and for the Derry Senior hurling team. I expect that's true. But I also expect that part of the reason the club was named after him was that he was one of ten men who died on hunger-strike rather than accept that republicans were common criminals.  You have to believe very firmly in an idea if you're prepared to die for it, in this case very slowly and very painfully.  So that kind of heroic resolve may well have been part of what the club admired in this local man.  Unionists of course will argue that the INLA and the IRA were groups of common criminals. Republicans, nationalists and most GAA members, I'd venture to suggest, see things rather differently.


The part of Joe's remark that strikes home with sharp-edged truth is "It's none of their business".  The 'they' he's referring to are those who would presume to tell the GAA, Sinn Féin, the Catholic Church, Catholic schools, the southern government - all sort of organisations and institutions to which they do not now  belong, never have belonged, and have no intention of ever belonging to - that they would presume to tell  these groupings how to manage their affairs. 


Fact: Gaelic games are not played on a competitive basis in any State/Protestant school, except you include Integrated schools. No unionist politician I can think of plays Gaelic games, no unionist that I know of attends Gaelic games. And yet unionist politicians would presume to tell the GAA how they should act, what names they should or should not use, what rules should govern their organisation. What next -  the proposed names of children born into republican/nationalist families  to be submitted to the likes of Jim and Gregory for approval, before proceeding with the infant's birth registration? 


There comes a point where, if you dance to the piper's every tune, the piper begins to feel contempt for you. Joe Brolly has just called time on the dancing. 















Posted by Jude Collins at 2:54:00 pm   
Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to Facebook

Very good, could have been a post by you Glens abu

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2013, 02:01:13 PM

Quote from: glens abu on October 21, 2013, 12:55:46 PM
Sometimes reality breaks through the mesh of the media and the results are refreshing. They can also be embarrassing or infuriating or revelatory but they are always refreshing, because they're the voice of real life, not the media's version of real life, and that in itself is refreshing.


Such a rare moment came yesterday when Joe Brolly spoke about the fact that Dungiven's GAA club is named after Kevin Lynch, a local man who was a member of both the local hurling team and  the Derry county hurling team. He was also a member of the INLA and one of the ten men who died on hunger-strike in 1981. Joe said that he was proud that the club was named after Kevin Lynch and that it was nobody else's business what name the club chose. "If they don't like it, they can lump it".


You don't hear that kind of blunt language on air as a rule. To be fair to him, when the Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore spoke at a function in Derry last night he tiptoed delicately towards endorsing Joe's stand: "I think these are issues that the GAA decides. What we have to work at here is how we build bridges, how we move beyond the difficulties of the past".


Joe's remarks have been greeted with outrage from the TUV's Jim Allister. And I'd feel fairly safe in suggesting people like Gregory Campbell would be equally aghast. In which case  I sugggest Jim  and Gregory  be taken by the hand and brought on a guided tour of Belfast. They could start at Windsor Park. Maybe view the Queen's Bridge, check out the King's Hall,  look up at Windsor House, make their way down Royal Avenue,drive out to Carnmoney and zip along Prince Charles Way. Lots of people, it's true,  think this royal naming is a very good idea. Others, like nearly half the population of the state, think it's a pretty imperialist idea. But the bridges and buildings and roads have been named and I haven't heard anyone from the nationalist or republican community saying they were outraged or demanding a name-change.


Joe Brolly says the Dungiven club was named after Kevin Lynch because he played for the club and for the Derry Senior hurling team. I expect that's true. But I also expect that part of the reason the club was named after him was that he was one of ten men who died on hunger-strike rather than accept that republicans were common criminals.  You have to believe very firmly in an idea if you're prepared to die for it, in this case very slowly and very painfully.  So that kind of heroic resolve may well have been part of what the club admired in this local man.  Unionists of course will argue that the INLA and the IRA were groups of common criminals. Republicans, nationalists and most GAA members, I'd venture to suggest, see things rather differently.


The part of Joe's remark that strikes home with sharp-edged truth is "It's none of their business".  The 'they' he's referring to are those who would presume to tell the GAA, Sinn Féin, the Catholic Church, Catholic schools, the southern government - all sort of organisations and institutions to which they do not now  belong, never have belonged, and have no intention of ever belonging to - that they would presume to tell  these groupings how to manage their affairs. 


Fact: Gaelic games are not played on a competitive basis in any State/Protestant school, except you include Integrated schools. No unionist politician I can think of plays Gaelic games, no unionist that I know of attends Gaelic games. And yet unionist politicians would presume to tell the GAA how they should act, what names they should or should not use, what rules should govern their organisation. What next -  the proposed names of children born into republican/nationalist families  to be submitted to the likes of Jim and Gregory for approval, before proceeding with the infant's birth registration? 


There comes a point where, if you dance to the piper's every tune, the piper begins to feel contempt for you. Joe Brolly has just called time on the dancing. 















Posted by Jude Collins at 2:54:00 pm   
Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to Facebook

Very good, could have been a post by you Glens abu

Ha ha I wish

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 21, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM
That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

I'd agree with that. Dungiven is one of those working class catholic villages and they should be respected within the GAA to democratically amongst themselves decide what they want to name their club regardless of what I or Jim Alister thinks. Too many people living history from a very one sided perspective.

Quote from: glens abu on October 21, 2013, 12:55:46 PM
Joe's remarks have been greeted with outrage from the TUV's Jim Allister. And I'd feel fairly safe in suggesting people like Gregory Campbell would be equally aghast. In which case  I sugggest Jim  and Gregory  be taken by the hand and brought on a guided tour of Belfast. They could start at Windsor Park. Maybe view the Queen's Bridge, check out the King's Hall,  look up at Windsor House, make their way down Royal Avenue,drive out to Carnmoney and zip along Prince Charles Way. Lots of people, it's true,  think this royal naming is a very good idea. Others, like nearly half the population of the state, think it's a pretty imperialist idea. But the bridges and buildings and roads have been named and I haven't heard anyone from the nationalist or republican community saying they were outraged or demanding a name-change.

I'm pretty sure Windsor Park isn't named after the royals.

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 21, 2013, 07:25:22 PM

Quote from: glens abu on October 21, 2013, 12:55:46 PM
Joe's remarks have been greeted with outrage from the TUV's Jim Allister. And I'd feel fairly safe in suggesting people like Gregory Campbell would be equally aghast. In which case  I sugggest Jim  and Gregory  be taken by the hand and brought on a guided tour of Belfast. They could start at Windsor Park. Maybe view the Queen's Bridge, check out the King's Hall,  look up at Windsor House, make their way down Royal Avenue,drive out to Carnmoney and zip along Prince Charles Way. Lots of people, it's true,  think this royal naming is a very good idea. Others, like nearly half the population of the state, think it's a pretty imperialist idea. But the bridges and buildings and roads have been named and I haven't heard anyone from the nationalist or republican community saying they were outraged or demanding a name-change.

I'm pretty sure Windsor Park isn't named after the royals.

I think its named after the area where it is

There is a Facebook page to name a West Belfast street after Bobby Sands

Falls Road was named after Falls' Pub in Derrylaughan.
Andytown Road after Andy Cole.
Glen Road after Glenn Close

Quote from: ONeill on October 21, 2013, 08:29:40 PM
Falls Road was named after Falls' Pub in Derrylaughan.
Andytown Road after Andy Cole.
Glen Road after Glenn Close

Monagh Bypass after Mona Lisa.

Springfield Road had a narrow escape. They were going to call it Dusty.

Isn't Shankill an Irish name or something?

There's outreaching for you.

Quote from: hardstation on October 21, 2013, 08:47:33 PM
Brian Kennedy Way.

Handily goes both ways.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

Please give us some evidence to back up you claim here Myles.
I'm looking forward to this ....should  be good!
Can't wait in fact!!!!

Quote from: Tonto on October 20, 2013, 12:36:27 AM

Quote from: grounded on October 20, 2013, 12:25:20 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 20, 2013, 12:13:32 AM

Quote from: grounded on October 20, 2013, 12:06:15 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

As long as openly anti-GAA doesn't involve assaulting GAA members, burning out Clubhouses/damaging GAA property or in anyway disrupting its activities that's fine by me.

I'm pretty sure that most unionists have in the past and will continue to meet your request.

Meanwhile, unionists can expect to do whatever they like because it's no business of anyone else (Brolly, 2013) and can expect that nationalists will not burn out or attack Orange Order property or, in any way, disrupt its activities.

Yes, that's a solution, both communities can live side by side, doing whatever they like but simultaneously pretend that the other side doesn't exist.  Why didn't we think of that before?

Just interested on your views on this one. Dan Breen was a leading member of the IRA during the war of independence and would have fulfilled all your criteria of a terrorist. The Dan Breen cup is presented each year in Tipperary. Is this acceptable in your eyes?

He was a terrorist to my mind (and based on the little information I have just read, a Nazi supporter). I do, however, accept that, enough time has now passed since he carried out his activities to deem it less offensive, so I would be in no rush to have things like that changed.

That said, shooting someone in the 1920s has the same end result as doing it in the 1970s or in 2012.  I think it's clear that, from this point on, the GAA really need to look at how they act.  They can't, in 2013, do the same things that they did 100 years ago if they are really serious about promoting better community relations.

So you had to do a bit of research in order to be offended


You could prob do a bit more on Kevin Lynch before casting your dispersions

Not for handing out sweets but for feck all - one fabricated charge (assault)

Quote from: ONeill on October 21, 2013, 08:50:04 PM
Isn't Shankill an Irish name or something?

There's outreaching for you.

Old Church i mBéarla.
Surely the PULs will want it re named Aulkirk  ;D

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 21, 2013, 08:58:08 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

Please give us some evidence to back up you claim here Myles.
I'm looking forward to this ....should  be good!
Can't wait in fact!!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kevin Lynch died when he was about 25. He'd been in prison for 4 or 5 years before that. So when exactly did he play football or hurling 'with distinction'? Did he play for the senior teams at all, or was his success just in the minor teams? If his contribution to his club / county was all done by the age of 20 (or earlier) is that really the best Dungiven could do? Have there been no distinguished players or club men or women who have played with distinction, before going on to play a role in running junior teams, or helping administer the affairs of the club or county? How many other minor players have had clubs named after them?

Why all the fuss about the name of one club's out of about 2,500 clubs.

One feckin club and suddenly we are all 'The IRA at Play'.

Eff off and find a real reason to criticise the GAA.

what was Connolly railway station named before it was changed

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2013, 11:14:53 PM
what was Connolly railway station named before it was changed

Amiens Street

Rathcoole was named after the

Rathcoole Kai.  ::)

And Hackballscross was named after Jim Hacker of "Yes, Prime Minister " fame.

Protestant Coalition
4 hours ago
The innocent victims demand that Marty McGunniness be arrest over bloody Sunday,after all he said he was walking about with a Thompson machine gun but he was no danger to anyone.And if you be leave that, i may as well tell you the pope is a prod.The innocent victims of south armagh thank the parachute regiment for what they did,so tell the PSNI to go get stuffed boys ulster stands with yous on this.

Surely this statement by frazier/and buddies is an arrestable offence thanking the parachute basically for what they done on blood sunday

I don't be leave it!!

Ballymena Ring Road named after Christy Ring

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 22, 2013, 01:02:12 AM
Protestant Coalition
4 hours ago
The innocent victims demand that Marty McGunniness be arrest over bloody Sunday,after all he said he was walking about with a Thompson machine gun but he was no danger to anyone.And if you be leave that, i may as well tell you the pope is a prod.The innocent victims of south armagh thank the parachute regiment for what they did,so tell the PSNI to go get stuffed boys ulster stands with yous on this.

Surely this statement by frazier/and buddies is an arrestable offence thanking the parachute basically for what they done on blood sunday

It is quite amusing watching the tit for tat between that LAD page and those guys.

Some of those posts on those kind of pages are beyond ridiculous. The bitterness of guys like this know no bounds. The worst is that people actually listen to this guy.

I read on one of those posts that Frazer said Irish dancing was "a rythmical form of terrorism". If it was anyone else I would think someone was taking the piss but not so sure with this guy...

Absolutely insane.

I take it there will be a campaign to rename 'Cromwell Street' in the Botanic area in Belfast!? Might as well be Adolf Avenue!

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 09:37:23 PM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 21, 2013, 08:58:08 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

Please give us some evidence to back up you claim here Myles.
I'm looking forward to this ....should  be good!
Can't wait in fact!!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kevin Lynch died when he was about 25. He'd been in prison for 4 or 5 years before that. So when exactly did he play football or hurling 'with distinction'? Did he play for the senior teams at all, or was his success just in the minor teams? If his contribution to his club / county was all done by the age of 20 (or earlier) is that really the best Dungiven could do? Have there been no distinguished players or club men or women who have played with distinction, before going on to play a role in running junior teams, or helping administer the affairs of the club or county? How many other minor players have had clubs named after them?

Yer last comment there Myles........my club in Ireland is named after one of our club minors, Brian Og McKeever and by God every member of the club is proud of that fact.

Quote from: theticklemister on October 22, 2013, 10:30:22 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 09:37:23 PM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 21, 2013, 08:58:08 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: qubdub on October 19, 2013, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Wonder what Joe feels about loyalist flute bands which carry the names of dearly departed sectarian killers on their drums / uniforms? Wonder if he feels that's noone else's business too? Wonder if he'd feel it was noone else's business if those same bands were receiving public funding for their activities and claiming to be 'reaching out' to nationalists at the same time?

You're a t**t, Joe. Sorry, but you are. If you can't see that naming grounds after members of the organisation responsible for La Mons, Shankill, Enniskillen, Teebane, Darkley, Kingsmill, etc etc etc while holding your hand out for tax payers money might be an issue, then you're a t**t.

Was Kevin Lynch a sectarian killer? McDonnell or Doherty sectarian killers?

I mean if Loyalists named their flutebands after a UVF man that died on hungerstrike then may be you'd have a point. If the GAA named clubs after individuals who actively engaged in sectarian killings then you'd have a point.

These men died on hungerstrike which was an emotive issue for the broader nationalist community, not just republicans. If you are unable to differentiate between the circumstances in which these men died (whether you agree or not with their politics) and the likes of the much eulogized Brian Robinson who randomly shot the first fenian he could find then maybe you are the t**t.

Kingsmill was sectarian, was it not? Prods lined up against a van, the sole Catholic identified and told to take himself off. If that isn't sectarian murder, then I don't know what is. Maybe not as random as Brian Robinson's attack, but hey, no brownie points for being better organised sectarian killers, eh? Darkley, an attack on prods in a prod church. Is that not sectarian? That's the organisation that the hunger strikers belonged to. One of the guns used at Kingsmill was linked to hunger striker  Raymond McCreesh.  The GAA should not allow itself to be linked to an organisation which committed such sectarian atrocities. It should not receive public funding while it does. Joe's an intelligent man, he should be able to see that. The fact that he can't makes him a t**t.

This has been done to death but....

As Joe Brolly clearly stated, Kevin Lynch hurled for both Derry and Dungiven with distinction.

Their decision to rename their club reflects the sentiment held in Dungiven at that time that a former and well decorated player such as KL was worthy of commemoration. Given the exceptional circumstances of his death, and that of the other hungerstrikers, I don't see anything untoward with ONE out of thousands of GAA clubs being re-named after a hungerstriker given the links he had with that club.

As for your examples of Darkley and Kingsmill; yes they were abhorrent sectarian crimes. Are they being glorified? NO. It's the exact same as me saying the laying of a wreath at a British Army war memorial is somehow glorifying Bloody Sunday or The Ballymurphy Massacre. Should wreath laying be discontinued because of the hurt, pain and killings inflicted on Nationalists by the British Army? What do you think?

The decision to name the club after Kevin Lynch has nothing to do with his talent as a hurler. There must be countless players down through the decades who have served their club and county longer and with more distinction - why not honour them? Lynch was singled out because of his activities off the pitch and therein lies the problem: some people within the GAA think that a member of the provisional IRA is a suitable person to commemorate. The vast majority of people throughout the 32 counties view that organisation as  a bunch of murderers, on the same level as the UDA or UVF, rather than on the same level as the British Army, which is the comparison republicans (and only republicans) like to make.

Please give us some evidence to back up you claim here Myles.
I'm looking forward to this ....should  be good!
Can't wait in fact!!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kevin Lynch died when he was about 25. He'd been in prison for 4 or 5 years before that. So when exactly did he play football or hurling 'with distinction'? Did he play for the senior teams at all, or was his success just in the minor teams? If his contribution to his club / county was all done by the age of 20 (or earlier) is that really the best Dungiven could do? Have there been no distinguished players or club men or women who have played with distinction, before going on to play a role in running junior teams, or helping administer the affairs of the club or county? How many other minor players have had clubs named after them?

Yer last comment there Myles........my club in Ireland is named after one of our club minors, Brian Og McKeever and by God every member of the club is proud of that fact.

http://www.derryjournal.com/sport/steelstown-s-finest-brian-og-mckeever-1-2131501

touching story

That is a very moving piece,he must have been an amazing lad and I am sure everyone involved with his club must be so proud to have know him.RIP

Just reading that back brings ye to tears again

Quote from: theticklemister on October 22, 2013, 10:54:28 AM
Just reading that back brings ye to tears again

Very moving. Who wrote that article?

Quote from: stephenite on October 22, 2013, 11:48:51 AM

Quote from: theticklemister on October 22, 2013, 10:54:28 AM
Just reading that back brings ye to tears again

Very moving. Who wrote that article?

joe brolly

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 21, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

What exact part of the north did you grow up in? I am not from a working class background. I and my family would not have had any support for the IRA's killing. But at that time to be catholic was to be second class, to play GAA was to be a terrorist and that was evident from the actions of the state, unionism and state forces. So with the exception of the uncle toms most catholic nationalists whilst not on the face of it supportive of some of the IRA's actions would have had an understanding. This is a fact lost on a lot of Southerners and conveniently forgotton by some nationalists. You drew the line and everyone new which side to stand on.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 21, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

I'd imagine that the areas you describe would have accounted for a huge majority of the Catholic population at the time.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 09:37:23 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kevin Lynch died when he was about 25. He'd been in prison for 4 or 5 years before that. So when exactly did he play football or hurling 'with distinction'? Did he play for the senior teams at all, or was his success just in the minor teams? If his contribution to his club / county was all done by the age of 20 (or earlier) is that really the best Dungiven could do? Have there been no distinguished players or club men or women who have played with distinction, before going on to play a role in running junior teams, or helping administer the affairs of the club or county? How many other minor players have had clubs named after them?

ok myles, you obv dont know.your full extent of your research was to find out how old he was when he died. yes 25.
He was a hugely influential and popular player in Dungiven.
various stories about how he was 'setanta-esque' as a young hurler but off the top of my head these
-played feile u14 hurling competition 10 or 14 days after an appendix opperation after sneaking out of his house
-was listed as one of the XV best ever feile players , others on the team sean og ohailpin, brian whelahan, michael Duignan..
-was captain of the Derry u16 team to win the all Ireland B championship (I asked a team mate of his from that team once when I was in america how good was he and the man told me that he was the team)
- Kevin Lynch's oldest brother was on holidaysand bumped into a guy from Offaly on holiday. Two Gaa men had a good chat,The Offaly man saying he was from the hurling area and into the small ball game- KL's brother said that he was from a place that wasnt much good at hurling - Derry. The other man replied, no thats not true. Feile was on in our parish a number of years prev and there was a young Derry player that was the best out of all 14 players at all levels on show that weekend. He often wondered how he would fare out, but heard since that the lad had died on hunger strike. KL's brother said , that was his youngest sibling. The man shook his hand and said that he was the best underage player he had ever seen.

so myles, these ar some of the stories that I recall. kl played in home club at older levels with even more distinction for a while until he went to England to work with his brothers. He played football and hurling over there too - getting on their county minor squads.

no harm to you, but your anti republican bias blinds you.
You dont know the reasons why KL joined the INLA (most could hazzard a good guess...clue ...retaliation after severe provocation to him and his family)
you dont understand why he was on two hunger strikes not one or his reasons to even go on them in the first place.

you dont understand GAA, you are for all intents and purposes a unionist. nothing wrong with that , but dont perport to be a taig.

you dont understand the feelings of the people and club members in Dungiven.
if you want to find out what they think, just read page 63-65 of Pat Spillanes second book - no pat on the back.
you will realise that there is no way that the club will ever be changed from Kevin Lynch's.

In 50-100 years time all about the war will be forgotten, and like the men of 1916, the Hunger strikers will be remembered as heroes who helped break the second class citizen ceiling for nationalists/catholics/republicans. Hume et al on their own were not getting to it. The 10 men and many more helped in tandem to win this equality.

Club names will not irritate those who want to be irritated.
Likewise the street names in belfast dont matter to rationally minded folk.
Clubs like Banagher's pitch names after the great Fr McNally wont preturb idiots then either.

its great to have an opinion, but if you dont know what you are talking about myles, then youd be better keeping it to yourself.
youd look less like an 'amadan' then !

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 22, 2013, 04:39:15 PM
In 50-100 years time all about the war will be forgotten, and like the men of 1916, the Hunger strikers will be remembered as heroes who helped break the second class citizen ceiling for nationalists/catholics/republicans. Hume et al on their own were not getting to it. The 10 men and many more helped in tandem to win this equality.

I wonder when the Oscar Traynor Cup stopped being a celebration of a terrorist and became a memorial to a man who (presumably; the intrawebs isn't very helpful in this regard) did the Irish soccer world some service.

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 22, 2013, 01:46:37 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 21, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

What exact part of the north did you grow up in? I am not from a working class background. I and my family would not have had any support for the IRA's killing. But at that time to be catholic was to be second class, to play GAA was to be a terrorist and that was evident from the actions of the state, unionism and state forces. So with the exception of the uncle toms most catholic nationalists whilst not on the face of it supportive of some of the IRA's actions would have had an understanding. This is a fact lost on a lot of Southerners and conveniently forgotton by some nationalists. You drew the line and everyone new which side to stand on.

I grew up in north Belfast, where something like 25% of all the killings during the troubles took place. Who did I fear in those dark days? The tartan gangs; the sectarian killers of the uvf and uda, who trawled the streets looking for random Catholics to kill; and the IRA, with their indiscriminate, no warning bombs. Of that list, only the IRA was a threat to me personally. The others were more of a threat to my father and older members of my family, but IRA bombs killed children too. Did I fear the security forces? No, they were no threat or bother to me. Nor did they ever bother the older members of my family who were members of GAA clubs. Do I 'understand' the IRA? Yes, but then I also 'understand' why the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but I still think that those actions were immoral and unjustifiable. I also 'understand', to an extent, what motivates Islamist extremists to strap themselves with bombs and blow themselves up in crowded places, but not for a moment do I think what they're doing is right. Most Catholics in the north knew where the IRA came from, most Catholics may have shared some of their aims, but not for a second do I believe that the majority of Catholics were supportive of their actions. And your Uncle Toms jibe is an insult to people like John Hume who believed passionately in non violence and did far more to bring about conditions of equality than McGuinness, Adams or Kelly ever did.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 22, 2013, 10:36:21 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 22, 2013, 01:46:37 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 21, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

What exact part of the north did you grow up in? I am not from a working class background. I and my family would not have had any support for the IRA's killing. But at that time to be catholic was to be second class, to play GAA was to be a terrorist and that was evident from the actions of the state, unionism and state forces. So with the exception of the uncle toms most catholic nationalists whilst not on the face of it supportive of some of the IRA's actions would have had an understanding. This is a fact lost on a lot of Southerners and conveniently forgotton by some nationalists. You drew the line and everyone new which side to stand on.

I grew up in north Belfast, where something like 25% of all the killings during the troubles took place. Who did I fear in those dark days? The tartan gangs; the sectarian killers of the uvf and uda, who trawled the streets looking for random Catholics to kill; and the IRA, with their indiscriminate, no warning bombs. Of that list, only the IRA was a threat to me personally. The others were more of a threat to my father and older members of my family, but IRA bombs killed children too. Did I fear the security forces? No, they were no threat or bother to me. Nor did they ever bother the older members of my family who were members of GAA clubs. Do I 'understand' the IRA? Yes, but then I also 'understand' why the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but I still think that those actions were immoral and unjustifiable. I also 'understand', to an extent, what motivates Islamist extremists to strap themselves with bombs and blow themselves up in crowded places, but not for a moment do I think what they're doing is right. Most Catholics in the north knew where the IRA came from, most Catholics may have shared some of their aims, but not for a second do I believe that the majority of Catholics were supportive of their actions. And your Uncle Toms jibe is an insult to people like John Hume who believed passionately in non violence and did far more to bring about conditions of equality than McGuinness, Adams or Kelly ever did.

Ye are very lucky then

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 22, 2013, 10:36:21 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 22, 2013, 01:46:37 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 21, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

What exact part of the north did you grow up in? I am not from a working class background. I and my family would not have had any support for the IRA's killing. But at that time to be catholic was to be second class, to play GAA was to be a terrorist and that was evident from the actions of the state, unionism and state forces. So with the exception of the uncle toms most catholic nationalists whilst not on the face of it supportive of some of the IRA's actions would have had an understanding. This is a fact lost on a lot of Southerners and conveniently forgotton by some nationalists. You drew the line and everyone new which side to stand on.

I grew up in north Belfast, where something like 25% of all the killings during the troubles took place. Who did I fear in those dark days? The tartan gangs; the sectarian killers of the uvf and uda, who trawled the streets looking for random Catholics to kill; and the IRA, with their indiscriminate, no warning bombs. Of that list, only the IRA was a threat to me personally. The others were more of a threat to my father and older members of my family, but IRA bombs killed children too. Did I fear the security forces? No, they were no threat or bother to me. Nor did they ever bother the older members of my family who were members of GAA clubs. Do I 'understand' the IRA? Yes, but then I also 'understand' why the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but I still think that those actions were immoral and unjustifiable. I also 'understand', to an extent, what motivates Islamist extremists to strap themselves with bombs and blow themselves up in crowded places, but not for a moment do I think what they're doing is right. Most Catholics in the north knew where the IRA came from, most Catholics may have shared some of their aims, but not for a second do I believe that the majority of Catholics were supportive of their actions. And your Uncle Toms jibe is an insult to people like John Hume who believed passionately in non violence and did far more to bring about conditions of equality than McGuinness, Adams or Kelly ever did.

I've read some shite on this board but that takes the biscuit.

Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 22, 2013, 10:36:21 PM
Did I fear the security forces? No, they were no threat or bother to me. Nor did they ever bother the older members of my family who were members of GAA clubs.

It's possible that an individual or a handful of individual members of the GAA might have never suffered harassment at the hands of the security forces. But that these people would not hear chapter and verse about it from their fellow GAA members and not be influenced by that is unbelievable - in the sense of not being plausible, not the Chris Kamara type of unbelievable.

As a matter of interest, did your father and older siblings wear any GAA paraphernalia out on the streets at this time?

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 22, 2013, 10:36:21 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 22, 2013, 01:46:37 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 21, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

What exact part of the north did you grow up in? I am not from a working class background. I and my family would not have had any support for the IRA's killing. But at that time to be catholic was to be second class, to play GAA was to be a terrorist and that was evident from the actions of the state, unionism and state forces. So with the exception of the uncle toms most catholic nationalists whilst not on the face of it supportive of some of the IRA's actions would have had an understanding. This is a fact lost on a lot of Southerners and conveniently forgotton by some nationalists. You drew the line and everyone new which side to stand on.

I grew up in north Belfast, where something like 25% of all the killings during the troubles took place. Who did I fear in those dark days? The tartan gangs; the sectarian killers of the uvf and uda, who trawled the streets looking for random Catholics to kill; and the IRA, with their indiscriminate, no warning bombs. Of that list, only the IRA was a threat to me personally. The others were more of a threat to my father and older members of my family, but IRA bombs killed children too. Did I fear the security forces? No, they were no threat or bother to me. Nor did they ever bother the older members of my family who were members of GAA clubs. Do I 'understand' the IRA? Yes, but then I also 'understand' why the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but I still think that those actions were immoral and unjustifiable. I also 'understand', to an extent, what motivates Islamist extremists to strap themselves with bombs and blow themselves up in crowded places, but not for a moment do I think what they're doing is right. Most Catholics in the north knew where the IRA came from, most Catholics may have shared some of their aims, but not for a second do I believe that the majority of Catholics were supportive of their actions. And your Uncle Toms jibe is an insult to people like John Hume who believed passionately in non violence and did far more to bring about conditions of equality than McGuinness, Adams or Kelly ever did.

I think you'd need to look in the mirror for an uncle tom, but if you read what I wrote I did not claimthat most catholics supported their actions. I don't consider Hume to be an uncle tom, but the SDLP have a few. I do not belie.ve you grew up in north belfast as a catholic and did not experience harrassment from the British Army/UDR...

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 26, 2008, 12:58:19 PM

Most of that post is just standard Irish republican revisionism, especially the attempt to make some equivalence between the state forces and the IRA. That doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny at all, but that's for another thread. You compare the Garnerville Gaels with the Dungiven club and hint that you have some difficulty in seeing them as Gaels. Why? Who died and made you arbiter of all things Irish? Because they happen to be police recruits you think that makes them somehow less Irish than you?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see your first ever post was about the Kevin Lynchs club also.

Jarlath Burns article in the Irish News today hits the nail exactly on the head.

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim.

I hold very similar views to you Jim. I'm very proud of the GAA. It is something we should all be very proud of. I don't think the celebration of patriot dead in 2013 is appropriate or in the interests of the Association. At the moment, the Protestant/Loyalist community have been led into one PR disaster after another by their public representatives. This is a time when we should sit back quietly and allow the rest of the world to see their narrow, bigotted sectarianism in all its horrendous glory. The last thing we should be doing is giving their representatives any ammunition with which to attack the GAA.

There may be a time again in the future when it will be OK to hold a tournament or name a trophy in honour of a volunteer but this isn't the time. We have worked hard to cultivate a positive public image and these things do nothing to help. By all means, clubs should celebrate the lives of their team mates and members and I would encourage this, but there are more subtle and dignified ways of doing it than putting a sticker on the back of a medal.

Quote from: CD on October 23, 2013, 11:39:23 AM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim.

I hold very similar views to you Jim. I'm very proud of the GAA. It is something we should all be very proud of. I don't think the celebration of patriot dead in 2013 is appropriate or in the interests of the Association. At the moment, the Protestant/Loyalist community have been led into one PR disaster after another by their public representatives. This is a time when we should sit back quietly and allow the rest of the world to see their narrow, bigotted sectarianism in all its horrendous glory. The last thing we should be doing is giving their representatives any ammunition with which to attack the GAA.

There may be a time again in the future when it will be OK to hold a tournament or name a trophy in honour of a volunteer but this isn't the time.  We have worked hard to cultivate a positive public image and these things do nothing to help. By all means, clubs should celebrate the lives of their team mates and members and I would encourage this, but there are more subtle and dignified ways of doing it than putting a sticker on the back of a medal.

Yip. Honour people when it suits sure.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 22, 2013, 10:36:21 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 22, 2013, 01:46:37 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 21, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

What exact part of the north did you grow up in? I am not from a working class background. I and my family would not have had any support for the IRA's killing. But at that time to be catholic was to be second class, to play GAA was to be a terrorist and that was evident from the actions of the state, unionism and state forces. So with the exception of the uncle toms most catholic nationalists whilst not on the face of it supportive of some of the IRA's actions would have had an understanding. This is a fact lost on a lot of Southerners and conveniently forgotton by some nationalists. You drew the line and everyone new which side to stand on.

I grew up in north Belfast, where something like 25% of all the killings during the troubles took place. Who did I fear in those dark days? The tartan gangs; the sectarian killers of the uvf and uda, who trawled the streets looking for random Catholics to kill; and the IRA, with their indiscriminate, no warning bombs. Of that list, only the IRA was a threat to me personally. The others were more of a threat to my father and older members of my family, but IRA bombs killed children too. Did I fear the security forces? No, they were no threat or bother to me. Nor did they ever bother the older members of my family who were members of GAA clubs. Do I 'understand' the IRA? Yes, but then I also 'understand' why the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but I still think that those actions were immoral and unjustifiable. I also 'understand', to an extent, what motivates Islamist extremists to strap themselves with bombs and blow themselves up in crowded places, but not for a moment do I think what they're doing is right. Most Catholics in the north knew where the IRA came from, most Catholics may have shared some of their aims, but not for a second do I believe that the majority of Catholics were supportive of their actions. And your Uncle Toms jibe is an insult to people like John Hume who believed passionately in non violence and did far more to bring about conditions of equality than McGuinness, Adams or Kelly ever did.

ha ha that is the greatest load of balls I have ever read on this board.Where in N.Belfast as a "Catholic" did you grow up without harassment from the Brits but lived in fear of no warning IRA bombs and felt no threat from the UDA/UFF/UVF/RED HAND/UDR or any other Loyalist killer gangs.

Quote from: theticklemister on October 23, 2013, 11:54:28 AM

Quote from: CD on October 23, 2013, 11:39:23 AM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim.

I hold very similar views to you Jim. I'm very proud of the GAA. It is something we should all be very proud of. I don't think the celebration of patriot dead in 2013 is appropriate or in the interests of the Association. At the moment, the Protestant/Loyalist community have been led into one PR disaster after another by their public representatives. This is a time when we should sit back quietly and allow the rest of the world to see their narrow, bigotted sectarianism in all its horrendous glory. The last thing we should be doing is giving their representatives any ammunition with which to attack the GAA.

There may be a time again in the future when it will be OK to hold a tournament or name a trophy in honour of a volunteer but this isn't the time.  We have worked hard to cultivate a positive public image and these things do nothing to help. By all means, clubs should celebrate the lives of their team mates and members and I would encourage this, but there are more subtle and dignified ways of doing it than putting a sticker on the back of a medal.

Yip. Honour people when it suits sure.

History has a habit of changing our perceptions Tickle.

with history all the bile will be forgotten, just as our men of 1916 are now venerated, when at the time they were spat on and villified.

I dont fully agree with Jim or CD, but I certainly understand their points. Valid enough.

However, the club (plus others and tournaments) are now named and thats done.

It is a bit different for Kevin Lynch Hurling club though.
The Lynch family were and still are steeped in GAA history. Kevins father played a few games at full back for Derry and was a huge GAA man.
Kevins brothers all played football - withvarious levels of success- only kevin and Gerald played hurling.
Kevins oldest brother was hounded out of Derry mostly because he was captain of the Banagher team and the security forces wanted to choose leaders in the communty to harrass and show everyone that by targetting their leaders, they controlled the people.
The Lynch family remain involved in GAA. Kevins nephew won an all Ireland u21 football medal as part of the Derry u21 all Ireland winning side - containing Lockhart muldoon et al.
So its not a simple political action that meant the hurling club was named after him. The family were humbled by the notuon and gratefully accepted.
you have to know the man , the family and the area and its GAA people to fully understand.

however, I accept Jim and CD's points.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 23, 2013, 02:43:15 PM
with history all the bile will be forgotten, just as our men of 1916 are now venerated, when at the time they were spat on and villified.

The idea that the men (and women) of 1916 were universally despised at the time is a myth (http://ansionnachfionn.com/2012/04/08/the-myths-of-easter-1916-and-the-truth/).

As is the idea that the IRA were universally despised in 80's.

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2013, 03:13:13 PM
As is the idea that the IRA were universally despised in 80's.

Who claims that?

Quote from: deiseach on October 23, 2013, 03:19:55 PM

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2013, 03:13:13 PM
As is the idea that the IRA were universally despised in 80's.

Who claims that?

It's claimed fairly regularly on here (most recently by MNaG) that the IRA only drew it's support from 'hardcore' nationalist areas and outside that they were thought of as murderers.

I was just re-inforcing the fact that this is also a myth.

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2013, 03:25:52 PM

Quote from: deiseach on October 23, 2013, 03:19:55 PM

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2013, 03:13:13 PM
As is the idea that the IRA were universally despised in 80's.

Who claims that?

It's claimed fairly regularly on here (most recently by MNaG) that the IRA only drew it's support from 'hardcore' nationalist areas and outside that they were thought of as murderers.

I was just re-inforcing the fact that this is also a myth.

Not according to the voters of that period, post hunger strike (83) the votes improved and we have in Sinn Fein the biggest party now. Sinn Fein couldn't buy a vote before the hunger strike.

A vote for Cobain is a vote for Sinn Féin.

Sorry, don't know where that came from...

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
What did it say on the ballot, milltown?

Tick here if you despise the RA and your vote goes to the SDLP too btw __

Can you read? I said before 83 Sinn Fein couldn't by a vote. Explain your last part in relation to me?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
What did it say on the ballot, milltown?

Tick here if you despise the RA and your vote goes to the SDLP too btw __

Can you read? I said before 83 Sinn Fein couldn't by a vote. Explain your last part in relation to me?

Sinn Fein didn't stand in any elections before 83

Quote from: glens abu on October 23, 2013, 04:07:05 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
What did it say on the ballot, milltown?

Tick here if you despise the RA and your vote goes to the SDLP too btw __

Can you read? I said before 83 Sinn Fein couldn't by a vote. Explain your last part in relation to me?

Sinn Fein didn't stand in any elections before 83

Owen Carron was an MP form 81 to 83 was he an independent at the time? maybe he was. Politics in northern ireland is shite

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:12:20 PM

Quote from: glens abu on October 23, 2013, 04:07:05 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
What did it say on the ballot, milltown?

Tick here if you despise the RA and your vote goes to the SDLP too btw __

Can you read? I said before 83 Sinn Fein couldn't by a vote. Explain your last part in relation to me?

Sinn Fein didn't stand in any elections before 83

Owen Carron was an MP form 81 to 83 was he an independent at the time? maybe he was. Politics in northern ireland is shite

Didn't stand on a Sin Fein ticket,but if you think he did he got 30,000 votes so kind of disproves your argument.

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 04:09:51 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
What did it say on the ballot, milltown?

Tick here if you despise the RA and your vote goes to the SDLP too btw __

Can you read? I said before 83 Sinn Fein couldn't by a vote. Explain your last part in relation to me?

I am asking you if they clarified on the ballot paper that ticking the box for an SDLP vote was also a declaration of hatred towards the IRA.

No (though in 83 i was only 11), it didn't but if on the ballot it had Sinn Fein on it they would have ticked it instead I would have imagined. Politics here is very annoying

Quote from: glens abu on October 23, 2013, 04:15:01 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:12:20 PM

Quote from: glens abu on October 23, 2013, 04:07:05 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
What did it say on the ballot, milltown?

Tick here if you despise the RA and your vote goes to the SDLP too btw __

Can you read? I said before 83 Sinn Fein couldn't by a vote. Explain your last part in relation to me?

Sinn Fein didn't stand in any elections before 83

Owen Carron was an MP form 81 to 83 was he an independent at the time? maybe he was. Politics in northern ireland is shite

Didn't stand on a Sin Fein ticket,but if you think he did he got 30,000 votes so kind of disproves your argument.

I didn't try and disprove it, he stood on the back of Bobby Sands and got that vote then it changed I already said that. But based on the political votes at the time people voted differently, I have no axe to grind here btw, politics is for other people to worry about I don't vote and didn't send in my letter for voting last month

But when he did go on the Sinn Fein ticket he lost out to Maginnis in 83

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
What did it say on the ballot, milltown?

Tick here if you despise the RA and your vote goes to the SDLP too btw __

Can you read? I said before 83 Sinn Fein couldn't by a vote. Explain your last part in relation to me?

Before 1983, SF barely looked for a vote. It was a political party by name only. They weren't even legalised until the mid '70's. Realistically it was merely a group of community activists/protesters.

QuoteI have no axe to grind here btw, politics is for other people to worry about I don't vote and didn't send in my letter for voting last month

This is a rather irresponsible approach for a person concerned about the next generation.

Quote from: Nally Stand on October 23, 2013, 04:19:59 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
What did it say on the ballot, milltown?

Tick here if you despise the RA and your vote goes to the SDLP too btw __

Can you read? I said before 83 Sinn Fein couldn't by a vote. Explain your last part in relation to me?

Before 1983, SF barely looked for a vote. It was a political party by name only. They weren't even legalised until the mid '70's. Realistically it was merely a group of community activists/protesters.

I know that's what I said, but they were a party formed in 1970. I'm not sure if they tried local elections first before trying to go mainstream. My neighbour Danny said at the time "Who here really believes we can win the war through the ballot box? But will anyone here object if, with a ballot paper in this hand and an Armalite in the other, we take power in Ireland?" that was in 81

Since they took the armalite out they have went into power sharing with the DUP

Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2013, 04:23:35 PM

QuoteI have no axe to grind here btw, politics is for other people to worry about I don't vote and didn't send in my letter for voting last month

This is a rather irresponsible approach for a person concerned about the next generation.

I'm concerned with mortages, bills, work, rates, education, my kids my parents and rest of the family. If you want to fight the fight go ahead.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:18:52 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 04:09:51 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
What did it say on the ballot, milltown?

Tick here if you despise the RA and your vote goes to the SDLP too btw __

Can you read? I said before 83 Sinn Fein couldn't by a vote. Explain your last part in relation to me?

I am asking you if they clarified on the ballot paper that ticking the box for an SDLP vote was also a declaration of hatred towards the IRA.

No (though in 83 i was only 11), it didn't but if on the ballot it had Sinn Fein on it they would have ticked it instead I would have imagined. Politics here is very annoying

Quote from: glens abu on October 23, 2013, 04:15:01 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:12:20 PM

Quote from: glens abu on October 23, 2013, 04:07:05 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
What did it say on the ballot, milltown?

Tick here if you despise the RA and your vote goes to the SDLP too btw __

Can you read? I said before 83 Sinn Fein couldn't by a vote. Explain your last part in relation to me?

Sinn Fein didn't stand in any elections before 83

Owen Carron was an MP form 81 to 83 was he an independent at the time? maybe he was. Politics in northern ireland is shite

Didn't stand on a Sin Fein ticket,but if you think he did he got 30,000 votes so kind of disproves your argument.

I didn't try and disprove it, he stood on the back of Bobby Sands and got that vote then it changed I already said that. But based on the political votes at the time people voted differently, I have no axe to grind here btw, politics is for other people to worry about I don't vote and didn't send in my letter for voting last month

But when he did go on the Sinn Fein ticket he lost out to Maginnis in 83

Well don't think it was because he was on SF ticket,think it was because the Nationalist vote was split when the SDLP entered this election and won 10,000 votes to Carrons 20,000,combined they would probably have won the seat,thank God that has changed over the past few years although its always going to be tight down there.

Quote from: CD on October 23, 2013, 11:39:23 AM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim.

I hold very similar views to you Jim. I'm very proud of the GAA. It is something we should all be very proud of. I don't think the celebration of patriot dead in 2013 is appropriate or in the interests of the Association.

interests of the Association

And there in lies the nub.  People point to nationalist/32 county references in GAA rules but to me the primary aim is to promote the games.

I accept that Kevin Lynch's is named and done.  That doesn't mean that in 2013 we should do the same.

My primary interest is in Gaelic Games (or to be brutally honest, hurling) and the other stuff only really bothers me if it gets in the way of that.  I know to some the other stuff is just as important but it just isn't for me.  I would fear that sticking pictures of RA men on the back of medals could get in the way promoting the games.

Equally I am not motivated by the likes of Myles or McAllister's comments, they are not worthy of engagement or consideration because along with the genuine concerns they throw up complete rubblish.

/Jim.

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 05:45:43 PM
And there in lies the nub.  People point to nationalist/32 county references in GAA rules but to me the primary aim is to promote the games.

And there in lies the nub. It's not about what you regard the primary aims to be. The "nationalist/32 county references in GAA rules" are just that: in the GAA rules.

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 05:45:43 PM
I would fear that sticking pictures of RA men on the back of medals could get in the way promoting the games.

How many tournaments have medals with a picture of "RA men" on them? I can think of only one, (the Vol. Martin McCaughey one) but it isn't an official GAA tournament.

Most GAA people and followers only see the GAA as a games playeing organisation no matter what load of politicised stuff might be written at the start of the T.O.
Let's leave the politics to the politicians and let the GAA concentrate on its games and rewrite the basic aim.

Anyway who needs the GAA to strengthen their National Identity in 2013? And who reads the start of the T.O?

Quote from: Nally Stand on October 23, 2013, 07:03:55 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 05:45:43 PM
And there in lies the nub.  People point to nationalist/32 county references in GAA rules but to me the primary aim is to promote the games.

And there in lies the nub. It's not about what you regard the primary aims to be. The "nationalist/32 county references in GAA rules" are just that: in the GAA rules.

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 05:45:43 PM
I would fear that sticking pictures of RA men on the back of medals could get in the way promoting the games.

How many tournaments have medals with a picture of "RA men" on them? I can think of only one, (the Vol. Martin McCaughey one) but it isn't an official GAA tournament.

They have changed a lot of rules lately, letting players play rugby and soccer, soccer and rugby play in certain grounds and police teams in the Gaa, these rules aren't set in stone, with it being a democracy these things can come up for debate and changed

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim

Can you provide a link to those posts? They don't ring a bell with me.

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 09:24:10 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 22, 2013, 10:36:21 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 22, 2013, 01:46:37 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 21, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

What exact part of the north did you grow up in? I am not from a working class background. I and my family would not have had any support for the IRA's killing. But at that time to be catholic was to be second class, to play GAA was to be a terrorist and that was evident from the actions of the state, unionism and state forces. So with the exception of the uncle toms most catholic nationalists whilst not on the face of it supportive of some of the IRA's actions would have had an understanding. This is a fact lost on a lot of Southerners and conveniently forgotton by some nationalists. You drew the line and everyone new which side to stand on.

I grew up in north Belfast, where something like 25% of all the killings during the troubles took place. Who did I fear in those dark days? The tartan gangs; the sectarian killers of the uvf and uda, who trawled the streets looking for random Catholics to kill; and the IRA, with their indiscriminate, no warning bombs. Of that list, only the IRA was a threat to me personally. The others were more of a threat to my father and older members of my family, but IRA bombs killed children too. Did I fear the security forces? No, they were no threat or bother to me.

Eh, run that one by me again.

I was too young to be targeted  by loyalists, but I wasn't too young to be caught up in a no warning bomb.

Quote from: theticklemister on October 23, 2013, 11:28:39 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 26, 2008, 12:58:19 PM

Most of that post is just standard Irish republican revisionism, especially the attempt to make some equivalence between the state forces and the IRA. That doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny at all, but that's for another thread. You compare the Garnerville Gaels with the Dungiven club and hint that you have some difficulty in seeing them as Gaels. Why? Who died and made you arbiter of all things Irish? Because they happen to be police recruits you think that makes them somehow less Irish than you?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see your first ever post was about the Kevin Lynchs club also.

At least I'm consistent then. ;)

Quote from: glens abu on October 23, 2013, 11:56:21 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 22, 2013, 10:36:21 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 22, 2013, 01:46:37 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 21, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

Quote from: Tonto on October 19, 2013, 11:57:46 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2013, 10:26:09 PM
I'm gonna be honest here. Since when was the GAA about appeasing Unionists?

Some people might argue that the Orange Order was never "about appeasing" nationalists, but it doesn't mean that some people from the "other side" don't find some parts of their organisations/ activities offensive.

Are we still content in 2013 to operate an "I don't give a f*** what they think" attitude?  We know Brolly is, but I was hoping to come on here and see more liberal/ open-minded thinking from some others here.

The truth is that, whatever the circumstances of Lynch's death, he wasn't put away for handing out sweeties to sick children, but was, in fact, a member of a terrorist organisation. No amount of revisionism from Irish Republicans will change that and, although I have no time for Robinson or the DUP, I agree with him that there is no difference between historical or contemporary terrorism.  The scum who murdered Mr Black or Constable Carroll or the soldiers in Antrim a few years ago are exactly the same class of human being as those who carried out similar acts in the 70s, 80s or 90s.

If people don't understand why the name "Kevin Lynch" attached to a sports club can be deemed offensive then, to be honest, I don't see much evidence of community outreach. But if you don't understand that, then here is a heads-up: don't bother criticising unionists for being openly anti-GAA.

OK then, if that is a fact then NI was founded on historic terrorist violence and the threat of inssurection. That makes it an illegal entity...applying your logic. I have said before I suspect that many of those debating the troubles were either not born or too young to remember the '60's, '70's and early '80's. There would have been widespread support and sympathy for the IRA and the hunger strikers in that period when catholics and nationalists were very much under siege from the British and Unionists. Time have changed and we are inching towards equality, it is therefore hard to judge that period by what we have today. I applaude Joe Brolly for saying what he said, whatever his motives. Unionism still cherry picks what is terrorism and what is acceptable violence.

That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s. The IRA may have enjoyed support in Catholic working class areas, but it was by no means universal and it didn't extend much outside those areas. The SDLP was the largest supported nationalist party right up to the 1980s. Sinn Fein only became the best supported nationalist party after the peace process had started and when they showed they were prepared to move beyond violence, after John Hume had opened the door for them and shown them the road forward.

What exact part of the north did you grow up in? I am not from a working class background. I and my family would not have had any support for the IRA's killing. But at that time to be catholic was to be second class, to play GAA was to be a terrorist and that was evident from the actions of the state, unionism and state forces. So with the exception of the uncle toms most catholic nationalists whilst not on the face of it supportive of some of the IRA's actions would have had an understanding. This is a fact lost on a lot of Southerners and conveniently forgotton by some nationalists. You drew the line and everyone new which side to stand on.

I grew up in north Belfast, where something like 25% of all the killings during the troubles took place. Who did I fear in those dark days? The tartan gangs; the sectarian killers of the uvf and uda, who trawled the streets looking for random Catholics to kill; and the IRA, with their indiscriminate, no warning bombs. Of that list, only the IRA was a threat to me personally. The others were more of a threat to my father and older members of my family, but IRA bombs killed children too. Did I fear the security forces? No, they were no threat or bother to me. Nor did they ever bother the older members of my family who were members of GAA clubs. Do I 'understand' the IRA? Yes, but then I also 'understand' why the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but I still think that those actions were immoral and unjustifiable. I also 'understand', to an extent, what motivates Islamist extremists to strap themselves with bombs and blow themselves up in crowded places, but not for a moment do I think what they're doing is right. Most Catholics in the north knew where the IRA came from, most Catholics may have shared some of their aims, but not for a second do I believe that the majority of Catholics were supportive of their actions. And your Uncle Toms jibe is an insult to people like John Hume who believed passionately in non violence and did far more to bring about conditions of equality than McGuinness, Adams or Kelly ever did.

ha ha that is the greatest load of balls I have ever read on this board.Where in N.Belfast as a "Catholic" did you grow up without harassment from the Brits but lived in fear of no warning IRA bombs and felt no threat from the UDA/UFF/UVF/RED HAND/UDR or any other Loyalist killer gangs.

You've got that wrong mucker.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 08:25:21 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim

Can you provide a link to those posts? They don't ring a bell with me.

Search out the topic on Michael O Neill and Gerry Armstrong's efforts to recruit nationalists to play for OWC. You criticized the GAA for not dealing with Joe Brolly for an article saying nationalist would not be happy playing for OWN. Equally you proposed that Jarlath Burns be disciplined for attending a canvassing event for Martin McGuinness.

/Jim

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:45:22 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 08:25:21 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim

Can you provide a link to those posts? They don't ring a bell with me.

Search out the topic on Michael O Neill and Gerry Armstrong's efforts to recruit nationalists to play for OWC. You criticized the GAA for not dealing with Joe Brolly for an article saying nationalist would not be happy playing for OWN. Equally you proposed that Jarlath Burns be disciplined for attending a canvassing event for Martin McGuinness.

/Jim

I don't want to go searching for them, thanks - too much like hard work.  The onus is on you to do that. I'm happy to stand over what I've written on here, but I don't think I should be expected to defend edited versions of what I'm alleged to have said, or to go trawling through pages of old stuff to find out what I actually did say.

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 08:36:21 PM
Were the IRA the only group who bombed? Were the other groups not responsible for the deaths of children in nationalist areas?
I'm genuinely baffled by this.

Loyalists did plant bombs - McGurks Bar and the Dublin and Monaghan bombs spring immediately to mind - but  they were nowhere near as prolific as the provos.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 10:14:43 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 08:36:21 PM
Were the IRA the only group who bombed? Were the other groups not responsible for the deaths of children in nationalist areas?
I'm genuinely baffled by this.

Loyalists did plant bombs - McGurks Bar and the Dublin and Monaghan bombs spring immediately to mind - but  they were nowhere near as prolific as the provos.

Only because they did not have the capability to have a prolonged bombing campaign rather than their conscious got the better of them

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 10:02:30 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:45:22 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 08:25:21 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim

Can you provide a link to those posts? They don't ring a bell with me.

Search out the topic on Michael O Neill and Gerry Armstrong's efforts to recruit nationalists to play for OWC. You criticized the GAA for not dealing with Joe Brolly for an article saying nationalist would not be happy playing for OWN. Equally you proposed that Jarlath Burns be disciplined for attending a canvassing event for Martin McGuinness.

/Jim

I don't want to go searching for them, thanks - too much like hard work.  The onus is on you to do that. I'm happy to stand over what I've written on here, but I don't think I should be expected to defend edited versions of what I'm alleged to have said, or to go trawling through pages of old stuff to find out what I actually did say.

There's the thread

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=20907.0

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:30:55 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2013, 04:23:35 PM

QuoteI have no axe to grind here btw, politics is for other people to worry about I don't vote and didn't send in my letter for voting last month

This is a rather irresponsible approach for a person concerned about the next generation.

I'm concerned with mortages, bills, work, rates, education, my kids my parents and rest of the family. If you want to fight the fight go ahead.

That's all politics.

Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 23, 2013, 10:21:03 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 10:14:43 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 08:36:21 PM
Were the IRA the only group who bombed? Were the other groups not responsible for the deaths of children in nationalist areas?
I'm genuinely baffled by this.

Loyalists did plant bombs - McGurks Bar and the Dublin and Monaghan bombs spring immediately to mind - but  they were nowhere near as prolific as the provos.

Only because they did not have the capability to have a prolonged bombing campaign rather than their conscious got the better of them

More than likely the British Army stopped making the bombs for them.

Quote from: reddgnhand on October 24, 2013, 07:14:02 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:30:55 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2013, 04:23:35 PM

QuoteI have no axe to grind here btw, politics is for other people to worry about I don't vote and didn't send in my letter for voting last month

This is a rather irresponsible approach for a person concerned about the next generation.

I'm concerned with mortages, bills, work, rates, education, my kids my parents and rest of the family. If you want to fight the fight go ahead.

That's all politics.

It's political issues in normal countries, when they try to get the working man a better way of life instead of talking about marching and bringing up the past I might be interested, if thats you're type of politics then you're sorted

Quote from: reddgnhand on October 24, 2013, 07:14:02 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2013, 04:30:55 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2013, 04:23:35 PM

QuoteI have no axe to grind here btw, politics is for other people to worry about I don't vote and didn't send in my letter for voting last month

This is a rather irresponsible approach for a person concerned about the next generation.

I'm concerned with mortages, bills, work, rates, education, my kids my parents and rest of the family. If you want to fight the fight go ahead.

That's all politics.

It's not NI politics

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 21, 2013, 06:28:19 PM
That's not true, and I speak as someone old enough to remember the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 08:27:07 PM
I was too young to be targeted by loyalists, but I wasn't too young to be caught up in a no warning bomb.

Rare boy.

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 10:20:30 PM
No harm, myles, but you are just telling lies to suit your agenda. I don't think anyone is buying them.

According to this, of the 156 children under the age of 16 murdered, 47 were killed by the IRA.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/cgi-bin/tab2.pl

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 10:02:30 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:45:22 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 08:25:21 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim

Can you provide a link to those posts? They don't ring a bell with me.

Search out the topic on Michael O Neill and Gerry Armstrong's efforts to recruit nationalists to play for OWC. You criticized the GAA for not dealing with Joe Brolly for an article saying nationalist would not be happy playing for OWN. Equally you proposed that Jarlath Burns be disciplined for attending a canvassing event for Martin McGuinness.

/Jim

I don't want to go searching for them, thanks - too much like hard work.  The onus is on you to do that. I'm happy to stand over what I've written on here, but I don't think I should be expected to defend edited versions of what I'm alleged to have said, or to go trawling through pages of old stuff to find out what I actually did say.

Here you go (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=20907.msg1070099#msg1070099).

QuoteIn the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.

You only felt threatened by the IRA and nobody else because...

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 08:27:07 PM
I was too young to be targeted  by loyalists, but I wasn't too young to be caught up in a no warning bomb.

OK so ignoring the facts that:

- Loyalists planted countless no warning bombs
- Loyalists/security forces between them were responsible for many more children's deaths than the IRA (almost twice as many)

Can I also ask, were loyalists/security forces no threat to your older family members and neighbours, or was your only concern for yourself?

Quote from: Nally Stand on October 24, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
You only felt threatened by the IRA and nobody else because...

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 08:27:07 PM
I was too young to be targeted  by loyalists, but I wasn't too young to be caught up in a no warning bomb.

OK so ignoring the facts that:

- Loyalists planted countless no warning bombs
- Loyalists/security forces between them were responsible for many more children's deaths than the IRA (almost twice as many)

Can I also ask, were loyalists/security forces no threat to your older family members and neighbours, or was your only concern for yourself?

MNaG's argument lies in tatters yet again...  ;D

Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 23, 2013, 10:21:03 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 10:14:43 PM

Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2013, 08:36:21 PM
Were the IRA the only group who bombed? Were the other groups not responsible for the deaths of children in nationalist areas?
I'm genuinely baffled by this.

Loyalists did plant bombs - McGurks Bar and the Dublin and Monaghan bombs spring immediately to mind - but  they were nowhere near as prolific as the provos.

Only because they did not have the capability to have a prolonged bombing campaign rather than their conscious got the better of them

Absolutely right.

Quote from: deiseach on October 24, 2013, 10:21:20 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 10:02:30 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:45:22 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 23, 2013, 08:25:21 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Times have changed since Dungiven named their club, if it was to renamed today I am not it would happen but I don't think that you can retrospectively change these things.

I think the GAA/Ulster Council should be harder on clubs that host tournaments in honour of terrorists etc..  (Looking at the example that started this thread).  As a GAA member I entitled to have an opinion on what a club does if I feel it reflects on the rest of the organisation.

I also think the GAA should engage with those that want to constructively engage with them, accept their suggestions and act on them where appropriate.  There is no point in engaging with the Jim McAllisters of the world.  Nothing the GAA could ever do will appease them (short of disbanding). However someone who is genuninely interested in supporting/playing the games should always be listen to.

Myles Na G is one that there is no point engaging with and will take umbrage with everything.  Previously he has criticised the GAA for not having a formal view on candidates for the Irish Presidency and eligibility rules of international soccer.  Not only did he want them to have such formal views but ranted that members were no disciplined for expressing contrary positions to these views.

That's what you are dealing with here.

/Jim

Can you provide a link to those posts? They don't ring a bell with me.

Search out the topic on Michael O Neill and Gerry Armstrong's efforts to recruit nationalists to play for OWC. You criticized the GAA for not dealing with Joe Brolly for an article saying nationalist would not be happy playing for OWN. Equally you proposed that Jarlath Burns be disciplined for attending a canvassing event for Martin McGuinness.

/Jim

I don't want to go searching for them, thanks - too much like hard work.  The onus is on you to do that. I'm happy to stand over what I've written on here, but I don't think I should be expected to defend edited versions of what I'm alleged to have said, or to go trawling through pages of old stuff to find out what I actually did say.

Here you go (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=20907.msg1070099#msg1070099).

QuoteIn the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.

Thanks for that. I'm happy to stand over what I wrote there. I also think it shows that Jim's summary of my views was a misrepresentation.