GAA Outreach in Action...

[Milltown Row2]

If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

What???

[Myles Na G.]

If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/victims-of-punishment-beatings-only-14-years-old-503665.html
or which leaves bombs in places which puts their lives and safety at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18112881
but anyone who sexually abuses them is beyond the pale?
Just trying to establish where you draw the line...

[Franko]

Can everyone please ignore the troll.

[Milltown Row2]

If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/victims-of-punishment-beatings-only-14-years-old-503665.html
or which leaves bombs in places which puts their lives and safety at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18112881
but anyone who sexually abuses them is beyond the pale?
Just trying to establish where you draw the line...

Is your post directed to my post? If it is then read it again, I've posted that if they did a tournament for Pat it would be about his services to the club and nothing else, I also posted that he'd be the first to say that there are far better people with 60 plus years of service to the club who'd be more worthy of the honour of a tournament being named after them.

We do have a very successful hurling tournament named after a Pat Sheehan, though it's his uncle who did nearly 65 years service for the club.

[armaghniac]

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,

Are you saying that it is not appropriate to honour someone in such an organisation? Do you apply this to all sports? So it is necessary to remove all of those who fought in armies, navies or air forces to say nothing of the RUC or UDR?

[tyssam5]

Ok then, the general consensus is that we continue to have tournaments remembering freedom fighters and never worry what others think? Those who'd complain about these things would normally complain about anything the GAA would do anyway.

By doing this though I think we will never be able to include everybody on the island into GAA. That probably sits better with most

Milltown, the point is that the GAA carries a lot more political baggage than that tournament in Galbally.

While we continue to play Amhran na bhFiann, fly a tricolour, have clubs and grounds named after republicans, we are never going to be all inclusive. People are kidding themselves that we will suddenly become all inclusive if we stop honouring any more republicans but retain the memory of the ones we already honour.

Where is all this clamour coming from to make the GAA non Irish and all-inclusive? Surely the whole rasion d'etre of the GAA is about promoting an Irish cultural and sporting identity, albeit one that is non party political. You can't seperate the GAA from an Irish identity and it is the one organisation that gave northern nationalists a sense of their Irishness from the dark days of partition, gerrymandering and discrimination through to the present. We still live in a society that doesn't quite believe in parity of esteem, look at Craigavon Borough Council, and one that promotes British idenity and culture at every cahnce, the various jubilees, weddings, orange marches, flags on state buildings etc...The GAA ground is one of the few places you can go as a nationalist and sing your national anthem and respect the flag you hold dear, official NI doesn't give you any recognition. So why would we take this part of our identity and culture away? We are forced to grit our teeth and suck it up in the face of all this British celebration. I am all for attracting Protestants to our games but not at the expense of our own identity.

That a fair statement. Those calling for rules should remember that this is a 'bottom up' not 'top down' organization. Clubs should have minimal interference in their own affairs.

(the picture on the medal was a bad idea though)

[theticklemister]

quote author=Milltown Row2 link=topic=21722.msg1119161#msg1119161 date=1339070348]
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/victims-of-punishment-beatings-only-14-years-old-503665.html
or which leaves bombs in places which puts their lives and safety at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18112881
but anyone who sexually abuses them is beyond the pale?
Just trying to establish where you draw the line...
[/quote]


I have no doubt that the club were proud that Martin McCaughey was a club member and and IRA volunteer. The competition was named after him for that fact. The competition has been run for years without any bad publicity; one woman decides to contact the media.............and then we have this thread.

Let's remember without a lot of Republican support some clubs on the north would not exist.

[red hander]

Can everyone please ignore the troll.

+1

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

quote author=Milltown Row2 link=topic=21722.msg1119161#msg1119161 date=1339070348]
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/victims-of-punishment-beatings-only-14-years-old-503665.html
or which leaves bombs in places which puts their lives and safety at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18112881
but anyone who sexually abuses them is beyond the pale?
Just trying to establish where you draw the line...

I have no doubt that the club were proud that Martin McCaughey was a club member and and IRA volunteer. The competition was named after him for that fact. The competition has been run for years without any bad publicity; one woman decides to contact the media.............and then we have this thread.

Let's remember without a lot of Republican support some clubs on the north would not exist.

[/quote]

Republican support is ok, terrorist scum support is not. Please stop this pretence that the perfectly acceptable and honourable political ideology of Republicanism has ever had anything to do with these murderous scum.

[red hander]

HoW does it feel to bask in the freedom won for you by people considered 'murderous scum' and 'terrorist scum' by the people they wrested that freedom from? You display the same naivity your county displays every time they run out at Croke Park against Kerry

[Rossfan]

You display the same naivity your county displays every time they run out at Croke Park against Kerry

A bit harsh there redhander 

[lynchbhoy]

About the inclusiveness or non inclusiveness of the GAA- I attended the Cayman islands GAA finals last sun week and apart from the Irish, Aussies, locals, yanks, Canadians and south Africans playing ( men's and woman's leagues) there were a few lads playing from unionist/loyalist background from the six counties, plus a few Glaswegian rangers fans - all who apparantly would berate the GAA when back in their home domiciles but were happy enough to play , enjoy and really get into Gaelic football on grand cayman island! ( info from the friends I was visiting who are friendly with these guys!!)
So maybe the problem is. It with the GAA , or Ireland - but the 'communities'' from
Where these people come from at 'home' !!!

While I think the pic in the medals looked dilly, in a few short years, these clubs and competitions will no longer be contentious - they will be assimilated into society just like Connolly station, wife tone quay, Robert Emmett st etc etc

Time will move on, as will people - reunification will happen and help this also - so there is no point in flustering over something that is a non entity .
Eventually people will not look for offence and just grow up!!

[Saffrongael]

About the inclusiveness or non inclusiveness of the GAA- I attended the Cayman islands GAA finals last sun week and apart from the Irish, Aussies, locals, yanks, Canadians and south Africans playing ( men's and woman's leagues) there were a few lads playing from unionist/loyalist background from the six counties, plus a few Glaswegian rangers fans - all who apparantly would berate the GAA when back in their home domiciles but were happy enough to play , enjoy and really get into Gaelic football on grand cayman island!
So maybe the problem is. It with the GAA , or Ireland - but the 'commu ities' fri
Where these people come format 'home' !!!

While I think the pic in the medals looked dilly, in a few short years, these clubs and competitions will no longer be contentious - they will be assimilated into society just like Connolly station, wife tone quay, Robert Emmett st etc etc

Time will move on, as will people - reunification will happen and help this also - so there is no point in flustering over something that is a non entity .
Eventually people will not look for offence and just grow up!!

Go on, tell us when ?

[lynchbhoy]

quote author=Milltown Row2 link=topic=21722.msg1119161#msg1119161 date=1339070348]
If Pat Sheehan from our club died tomorrow (hope he's not reading this, he'll hit me a slap) A great clubman who has played (when not in jail) for the club many years and taken teams within the club, MLA for West Belfast and a hunger striker who was days away from dying, if they wanted to honour his name for a competition then that would be grand, as it would be based on his service to the club. No one is really going to argue about that, it won't be based on his involvement for the IRA. The Galbally tournament is also doing this for a past playing member.

But outsiders will look in and decide that it's been done to commemorate his involvement in the RA. Pat will be the first to admit that there are far more worthy members of our club with 70 years involvement at all levels more worthy of tournaments to be named after them.

Hard for people to tell whether that is the case a lot of the time though. Who knows what the motivations might be for 'recognising' a past club member - a club doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's understandable that the politics of its members might influence a club's decisions on some matters. It's easier to point to the 'service to the club' when it is clear that there was some 'exceptional' service worthy of special recognition - it is my understanding that Kevin Lynch, for example, was an exceptional talent in his club and represented it at a high level. It's very conceivable that he could have been recognised as he has been if he had died of natural causes, or in an accident, for example. I don't know McCaughey's contribution to his club, so it's not clear to me on what basis he is recognised.

If someone was a great club member, but then was convicted of (say) child abuse, would a club go ahead and name a competition / ground / club after him? Stick his photo on medals?

hardly.

So it's okay to honour someone belonging to an organisation which beats and shoots children,
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/victims-of-punishment-beatings-only-14-years-old-503665.html
or which leaves bombs in places which puts their lives and safety at risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18112881
but anyone who sexually abuses them is beyond the pale?
Just trying to establish where you draw the line...

I have no doubt that the club were proud that Martin McCaughey was a club member and and IRA volunteer. The competition was named after him for that fact. The competition has been run for years without any bad publicity; one woman decides to contact the media.............and then we have this thread.

Let's remember without a lot of Republican support some clubs on the north would not exist.

Republican support is ok, terrorist scum support is not. Please stop this pretence that the perfectly acceptable and honourable political ideology of Republicanism has ever had anything to do with these murderous scum.
[/quote]
Who in particular do you mean mghu ??
Ruc, IRA, udr, British army, British gov, irish gov..??

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

HoW does it feel to bask in the freedom won for you by people considered 'murderous scum' and 'terrorist scum' by the people they wrested that freedom from? You display the same naivity your county displays every time they run out at Croke Park against Kerry