Great memories of their last encounter ten years ago on a balmy evening in Newbridge with Ken Doyle kicking an injury time winner. I'd happily take the same outcome again with his cousin kicking the winner!
Think this suits Donegal down to the ground and I cant see Kildare winning this. donegal will suffocate the Kildare attack and it wont matter to them that Kildare play a sweeper with the way the counter attack.
I can only see one winner here.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 24, 2011, 07:03:45 PM
Great memories of their last encounter ten years ago on a balmy evening in Newbridge with Ken Doyle kicking an injury time winner. I'd happily take the same outcome again with his cousin kicking the winner!
Can remember that game well was a great atmosphere that night here's hoping for something similar next week with donegal coming out on top this year
I was in Newbridge myself that night. Was a sickening loss but a great game of football. Devenney destroyed the Kildare backs that night, but it just wasn't enough as we blew a five or six point lead in the first half. Can't see this tie finishing 1-17 to 1-16 or whatever that final score was. Very tough draw for us, but I see no reason why we should go in afraid of Kildare.
We already got good news for this game with the news that dermot Mollys knee injury isn't as bad as first feared and he will be available for this game that's great boost for us to know we have him to spring from the bench if needed
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 24, 2011, 07:23:05 PM
Think this suits Donegal down to the ground and I cant see Kildare winning this. donegal will suffocate the Kildare attack and it wont matter to them that Kildare play a sweeper with the way the counter attack.
I can only see one winner here.
Do you see dead people too?
Should be a great game..................fancy kildare in this one big style
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on July 24, 2011, 09:04:42 PM
Should be a great game..................fancy kildare in this one big style
No game involving Donegal will "be a great game". They don't do great games. They suffocate, frustrate and strangle the life out of their opposition. Awful to watch but very effective. I think McGeeney will be well up for this unlike Derry in the Ulster final who stupidly just treid to play their normal game. Kildare/McGeeney will be a very different test.
Yep interesting draw and no clear favourite would imagine Kildare will be marginal in bookies at maybe 10/11 with Donegal at 11/10 with a 1 point spread.
Both teams will fancy there chances of a win here and the match ups will be interesting, unless Donegal change game plans this won't be a classic, 2 of the meanest defences out there (only 2 goals in 10 games conceded between them).
Looking forward to it and who knows maybe away from Ulster Donegal will express themselves, they certainly have the tools..
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 24, 2011, 10:07:21 PM
Yep interesting draw and no clear favourite would imagine Kildare will be marginal in bookies at maybe 10/11 with Donegal at 11/10 with a 1 point spread.
Both teams will fancy there chances of a win here and the match ups will be interesting, unless Donegal change game plans this won't be a classic, 2 of the meanest defences out there (only 2 goals in 10 games conceded between them).
Looking forward to it and who knows maybe away from Ulster Donegal will express themselves, they certainly have the tools..
Totally disagree. I don't think Donegal do have the tools to be attacking or creative. Also I don't believe Jimmy McGuinness knows anything but putting everything behind the ball. If they went attacking and man to man they would get eaten alive and would have by both Dery and Tyrone. Donegal will not change system and Kildare forwards be ready to be tackled by 3 or 4 men each time. I do think Kildare will have enough to cope though and Croke Park will test Donegal to the max.
ulster team v mcgeeneys kildare.. as an armagh man i'm drawn to kildare sorry donegal. i think kildare have what it takes to win this one they have lads who can score from distance and that makes the blanket defence that donegal have used relatively useless. also the big forward guy kildare have cant think of his name will cause donegal loads of problems. kildare to win comfortably
What the Sunday Giveth they take away - from 3rd best team in Ireland to be beaten by Donegal next week. RIP Hype.
Quote from: ck on July 24, 2011, 10:43:38 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 24, 2011, 10:07:21 PM
Yep interesting draw and no clear favourite would imagine Kildare will be marginal in bookies at maybe 10/11 with Donegal at 11/10 with a 1 point spread.
Both teams will fancy there chances of a win here and the match ups will be interesting, unless Donegal change game plans this won't be a classic, 2 of the meanest defences out there (only 2 goals in 10 games conceded between them).
Looking forward to it and who knows maybe away from Ulster Donegal will express themselves, they certainly have the tools..
Totally disagree. I don't think Donegal do have the tools to be attacking or creative. Also I don't believe Jimmy McGuinness knows anything but putting everything behind the ball. If they went attacking and man to man they would get eaten alive and would have by both Dery and Tyrone. Donegal will not change system and Kildare forwards be ready to be tackled by 3 or 4 men each time. I do think Kildare will have enough to cope though and Croke Park will test Donegal to the max.
Eaten alive by Derry??? We beat them just two years ago in the championship under the clueless regime of John Joe Doherty (with the Bradleys playing), two weeks before Cork did eat us alive!! As for Tyrone, who knows.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 24, 2011, 11:19:29 PM
What the Sunday Giveth they take away - from 3rd best team in Ireland to be beaten by Donegal next week. RIP Hype.
Ah sure we've had a good run of it all things considered. Our distinct lack of anything resembling a "natural footballer" was always going to come back to haunt us. Rather go out to Donegal than lose to Dublin again. Hopefully the Juniors will give Warwickshire a good rattle in their semi-final to give the long suffering Flourbag masses something to shout about....
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 24, 2011, 11:19:29 PM
What the Sunday Giveth they take away - from 3rd best team in Ireland to be beaten by Donegal next week. RIP Hype.
Really? What reasons did they give?
This is the Sunday Game logic and reasoning don't come into it, Davis and Brolly both just said Donegal would win. 10 minutes previously they completely dissed James Kavanagh and the Kildare forwards for not scoring enough goals ???
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2011, 11:33:47 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 24, 2011, 11:19:29 PM
What the Sunday Giveth they take away - from 3rd best team in Ireland to be beaten by Donegal next week. RIP Hype.
Really? What reasons did they give?
To paraphrase: Kavanagh is yellow and won't do it in a big game. Donegal have better inside forwards.
This match will be a pure dog fight. The only Kildare match I've missed all year was the corresponding league fixture up in Letterkenny which Donegal would have won but for a Mick Foley goal with the last kick of the game. According to a few friends of mine who travelled up, it was among the worst games of football they've ever seen (that's saying something after following Kildare up and down the country for years!)
Two key issues in this I'd say:
Will Donegal's defensive tactics be as effective in Croke Park?
Do Kildare have enough dog in them to tough it out in a scrap?
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 24, 2011, 07:03:45 PM
Great memories of their last encounter ten years ago on a balmy evening in Newbridge with Ken Doyle kicking an injury time winner. I'd happily take the same outcome again with his cousin kicking the winner!
This game could be very tight--i couldnt call it--i would say goals may win this game but the question is who will get them and also going by this years championship whether or not the goal will stand. Tomas O'Connor looked very dangerous and the real deal tonight on the Sunday Game. Rob Kelly impressed me big time in Casement in the league earlier this year--i dont know if he scored that day but he won every ball that came near him and looked like he could break free and bang in 2/3 goals on his day-he's maybe not the most natural point taker and has therefore been taken off in a few games, including before half time last week--his style reminds me a bit of Eoghan O'Gara from Dublin--looking like he could do serious damage but more often than not flattering to deceive.
I was delighted for Donegal last week although the game was awful but even though i'm from Ulster i too like Kildare and hope they win. I've liked them since 98 and used to like Padraic Graven and Eddie McCormick etc so i hope they win but it's hard to keep producing week in week out without having an off day so i wouldnt be surprised if Donegal sneak it.
On an unrelated note Newbridge is a great venue and must always have balmy evenings, it was a great evening and great atmosphere when the Saffrons drew with Kildare in a 1st round qualifier last year.
Quote from: Gold on July 25, 2011, 12:07:41 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 24, 2011, 07:03:45 PM
Great memories of their last encounter ten years ago on a balmy evening in Newbridge with Ken Doyle kicking an injury time winner. I'd happily take the same outcome again with his cousin kicking the winner!
This game could be very tight--i couldnt call it--i would say goals may win this game but the question is who will get them and also going by this years championship whether or not the goal will stand. Tomas O'Connor looked very dangerous and the real deal tonight on the Sunday Game. Rob Kelly impressed me big time in Casement in the league earlier this year--i dont know if he scored that day but he won every ball that came near him and looked like he could break free and bang in 2/3 goals on his day-he's maybe not the most natural point taker and has therefore been taken off in a few games, including before half time last week--his style reminds me a bit of Eoghan O'Gara from Dublin--looking like he could do serious damage but more often than not flattering to deceive.
I was delighted for Donegal last week although the game was awful but even though i'm from Ulster i too like Kildare and hope they win. I've liked them since 98 and used to like Padraic Graven and Eddie McCormick etc so i hope they win but it's hard to keep producing week in week out without having an off day so i wouldnt be surprised if Donegal sneak it.
On an unrelated note Newbridge is a great venue and must always have balmy evenings, it was a great evening and great atmosphere when the Saffrons drew with Kildare in a 1st round qualifier last year.
Why?
Quote from: Jinxy on July 25, 2011, 12:32:39 AM
Quote from: Gold on July 25, 2011, 12:07:41 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 24, 2011, 07:03:45 PM
Great memories of their last encounter ten years ago on a balmy evening in Newbridge with Ken Doyle kicking an injury time winner. I'd happily take the same outcome again with his cousin kicking the winner!
This game could be very tight--i couldnt call it--i would say goals may win this game but the question is who will get them and also going by this years championship whether or not the goal will stand. Tomas O'Connor looked very dangerous and the real deal tonight on the Sunday Game. Rob Kelly impressed me big time in Casement in the league earlier this year--i dont know if he scored that day but he won every ball that came near him and looked like he could break free and bang in 2/3 goals on his day-he's maybe not the most natural point taker and has therefore been taken off in a few games, including before half time last week--his style reminds me a bit of Eoghan O'Gara from Dublin--looking like he could do serious damage but more often than not flattering to deceive.
I was delighted for Donegal last week although the game was awful but even though i'm from Ulster i too like Kildare and hope they win. I've liked them since 98 and used to like Padraic Graven and Eddie McCormick etc so i hope they win but it's hard to keep producing week in week out without having an off day so i wouldnt be surprised if Donegal sneak it.
On an unrelated note Newbridge is a great venue and must always have balmy evenings, it was a great evening and great atmosphere when the Saffrons drew with Kildare in a 1st round qualifier last year.
Why?
Ha! Same thing came into my mind, he was a good man to slot a free and eh! that was it!
He was another lad that had awful trouble maintaining verticality.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 25, 2011, 12:35:33 AM
He was another lad that had awful trouble maintaining verticality.
He was one of Micko's first prototypes, perfected this model with Laois.
(http://anacarlo.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/father-ted-careful-now.jpg)
(http://www.gosunshinetours.com/images/odonnell.jpg)
V
(http://www.thequeenshall.net/attachments/show_images/0000/4558/Christy_Moore_show_info.jpg?1285156759)
(http://api.ning.com/files/2o4QEgaIqLYhCQ5-jlKD3DxUUFdHPjjmPpAQ4IHSZLbntV2SQRfnCYKXb-9ilrDcF4ZPfl1W1QIgrdkZEf6H9MBhwZcwxJ3Z/FishingBoat.jpg?width=629&height=600)
V
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2533/4221692561_0103e4e6d6.jpg)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZISKp2k_DPcbPpb27BesTkU66do7edq0CqgH_hMNo4tNghLOi)
vs
(http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00208/No_name_208982t.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_X-AQvIgUjMc/Sbg1wScu3jI/AAAAAAAAAew/7hQ9vXpV_j0/s400/Donegal+Poitin.jpg)
v
(http://www.kvn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/p1000828.jpg)
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/donegal2.png) V (http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/kildare3.png)
(http://www.inpho.ie/cache/inpho/e1/af/1a/5500e6d15768244203beab8eb0/INPHO_00004955.jpg) v
(http://leinster.gaa.ie/photogallery/images/19201940/1928_seniorfootball_kildare.jpg)
(http://www.breakforball.com/images/jimmcguinness.jpg) v
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLX548Aak7VS_m__8WWshaoq4rUW7yqpS6QUjKKumlfINQc_Ki)
Is that photoshopped, I thought the Donegal WIN was in black and white too back in the day.
(http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/usa/images-5/drunk-guy.jpg)
V
(http://www.visualphotos.com/photo/2x3591800/a_young_man_drinking_a_bottle_of_water_lv0011008b.jpg)
Quote from: Kerry Mike on July 25, 2011, 12:12:17 PM
Is that photoshopped, I thought the Donegal WIN was in black and white too back in the day.
No just a very dark photo, is green not black.
(http://s11.allstarpics.net/images/orig/j/v/jvviz490hxnssn0.jpg)
v
(http://www.taramusic.com/images/liamo.jpg)
Looks like 6pm Saturday :-\
Would of preferred a sunday game what with the amount of travelling we have to do but will still be large support down from donegal
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4vSWn9nyhFfjoF8-0xGTxI25FU9DvV5mJwy3tK7dZbNQZP2fD)
vs
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT6lnJjO5Z0ApST1_1fsBn59zT0LWdc7_pj50c75xzx6THixBONsA)
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 25, 2011, 12:10:38 PM
(http://www.breakforball.com/images/jimmcguinness.jpg) v
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLX548Aak7VS_m__8WWshaoq4rUW7yqpS6QUjKKumlfINQc_Ki)
(http://img.rasset.ie/0004aa94189r.jpg)
V
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF737/535713.jpg)
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 24, 2011, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2011, 11:33:47 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 24, 2011, 11:19:29 PM
What the Sunday Giveth they take away - from 3rd best team in Ireland to be beaten by Donegal next week. RIP Hype.
Really? What reasons did they give?
To paraphrase: Kavanagh is yellow and won't do it in a big game. Donegal have better inside forwards.
This match will be a pure dog fight. The only Kildare match I've missed all year was the corresponding league fixture up in Letterkenny which Donegal would have won but for a Mick Foley goal with the last kick of the game. According to a few friends of mine who travelled up, it was among the worst games of football they've ever seen (that's saying something after following Kildare up and down the country for years!)
Two key issues in this I'd say:
Will Donegal's defensive tactics be as effective in Croke Park?
Do Kildare have enough dog in them to tough it out in a scrap?
One thing in Kildares favour is their ability to take long range points. They may miss a few but they are not afraid to shoot which is one way of beating the duvet defence.
Both teams have finsihed games strongly all year so should be an interesting one.
Donegal Catch
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF737/536027.jpg)
Dr. Kildare
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF741/539005.jpg)
This thread is like Ann and Barry, such are all the pics ;)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SoWTqfEqbSc/TCebnFa6YTI/AAAAAAAAAII/Az9ul5lGZcY/s1600/Ann+and+Barry.jpg)
see the geezer head on barry :)
Ah boy Ted! I hope we give em holly too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoWXk7aL5E0&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoWXk7aL5E0&feature=player_embedded)
That's quality.
Always liked Ted.
Poor oul Joe is getting hit from all angles. :D
lads if anyone is around post match on saturday the druids (kildare men) are playing in the harcourt hotel (donegal territory) after the match from 7.30pm.
free gig and even if ye dont make it down it's free in until midnight with a jersey.
feck dunno what way to call it saturday. as was pointed kildare's ability to kick long range could be a key factor. also mick foley has yet to be bettered although murphy is a step up from what he has been coming up against so far this year.
reckon kildare might just do it.
Heard tonight that donegal county board only took 5000 tickets for the game that is a serious drop from the number for the ulster final
I'm looking forward to going to this game. Myself and the auld fella, (two coaches of varying experience :D) and the brother (a current player) will be all looking for ways to counter Donegal's defence. It'll be interesting to see what Kildare do.
You may be shocked by what you're about to hear! ;D
http://www.donegaldaily.com/2011/07/29/ddtv-dublin-pub-uses-daniel-odonnell-spoof-voice-over-to-entice-donegal-fans/
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2011, 09:47:22 AM
I'm looking forward to going to this game. Myself and the auld fella, (two coaches of varying experience :D) and the brother (a current player) will be all looking for ways to counter Donegal's defence. It'll be interesting to see what Kildare do.
That's why the pundits who decry Donegal's style are missing the point. If you're interested in Gaelic football, how Donegal play the system and how Kildare try to counteract it will be fascinating.
My own tuppence worth,
Donegal will strangle the life out of the Kildare forwards forcing them to shoot from 40+ yards. Kildare are seen as a team that can score from long range, but they're also a team that can hit a lot of wides. Their forwards will be under pressure when in possession and when shooting like never before the season (Dublin included).
This defensive system that we play is only half the story.
When we don't have possession, Donegal will bring 11 men back into our own half. But when we have possession, we'll have a 8-10 man attack with the midfielders and defenders coming forward to support. (Donegal players from 5 to 9 have scored 1-6 in our four games to date, and have set up a pile more.)
Individually, the Donegal forwards are more skilful than their Kildare counterparts and have a better nose for goal. I'm happier have Murphy, McFadden, McBrearty and Hegarty than O'Connor, Kavanagh, Callaghan and O'Flaherty.
Our defenders, supplemented by our half forwards and midfield, is solid. Everyone knows about Lacey and Cassidy, but Neil McGee at full back has probably been our best defender this season and Anthony Thompson is as hard as nails. McGee will blot O'Connor out, I think, with either Lacey or Thompson taking Kavanagh. If Kavanagh can be kept quiet (and his head will be wrecked with the attacking play of both those defenders) then Donegal will be on the way to victory.
Our midfield isn't the strongest, but then neither is the injury hit Kildare one. Watch out for Durcan's kickouts - he's the new Cluxton.
This is Kildare's fourth game in four weeks. Donegal were off last weekend, we have no serious injuries and come into the game fresher. Like Kildare, we are a second half team and finish strongly. That's when the game will be won.
It's going to be fascinating.
Donegal are 2/1 with William Hill. I'll be having some of that.
QuoteIndividually, the Donegal forwards are more skilful than their Kildare counterparts
Near a natural forward in Kildare thanks god our converted backs are again close to been top scorers in championship for 3 years in a row.
There seems to be a lot of concern with how Kildare will cope with the Donegal style. I don't think they'll be that bothered with it personally. In recent times, Kildare have only been beaten by fast, open, attacking football in high scoring games - Louth, Down & Dublin. Unlike Kildare teams of the past, this team is well set up, if not suited, to a dogfight.
The team selection will be interesting. It's taken as a given that Chalky will be dropped after a few well below par displays. It would be hard on Ollie Lyons if he was overlooked but if McGeeney goes horses for courses then I'd expect to see Brian Flanagan starting instead. I thought Flanno had one of his finest games ever in the Kildare jersey when he came on in Navan and he brings a physical edge to the game that Ollie doesn't. Derry made hay through the centre of the Kildare defence in the first half last week and Flanno might be seen as the man to shore up the middle. Johnny will probably be named at midfield with Rob Kelly in the corner again. I'd expect them to switch throughout the game. Kelly played off Tomás Connor and Jimmers in the opening half the last day and that's exactly the type of role that Johnny is best suited to. It's hard to see any other changes unless there are further injuries.
I'm hopeful enough heading into this match. This is Kildare's fourth year in succession at this stage and I think that experience will stand to them. I actually don't think they are playing as well as they were last year, or even in '09 for that matter, but mentally they seem stronger. They could have easily folded in the last ten minutes up in Navan but they toughed it out and even though the match was tight enough for most of the way last week, there was always a certain inevitability about the result. Donegal are improving and any team that holds Tyrone to nine points deserves respect but I think Kildare might just be a little bit further down the road in terms of development.
There are signs that some of Kildare's key men are beginning to hit form. Jimmers was excellent last week and he will undoubtedly be fired up after Brolly's comments about him last Sunday (even though there was probably a degree of truth in what he was trying to say). Kelly finally put to bed the ridiculous notion that he's only effective as an impact sub while both Paudie O'Neill and Flaherty óg were very effective on the forty. Having Flynner back is hugely important if Kildare are to progress further and he should strip fitter again this weekend. This is the type of match that should suit him down to the ground. If the backs can maintain their stinginess then we have a right shout. Michael Murphy is obviously the danger man but Kildare have handled him quite well in the past. Mick Foley kept him quiet in the league earlier this year and Damien Hendy did a good job on him in the previous league encounter. Obviously there's a world of difference between Letterkenny/Newbridge in the winter and Croke Park in late July but Foley is playing the football of his life at present and I'm confident he'll more than hold his own in that duel. McLoughlin will probably take McBrearty with McGrillen on McFadden. It's a big ask but if Kildare can keep another clean sheet (only 4 goals conceeded this year between league and championship) then I'd be hopeful we'll be looking forward to another semi-final come tomorrow night.
Quote from: JHume on July 29, 2011, 01:21:28 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 29, 2011, 09:47:22 AM
I'm looking forward to going to this game. Myself and the auld fella, (two coaches of varying experience :D) and the brother (a current player) will be all looking for ways to counter Donegal's defence. It'll be interesting to see what Kildare do.
That's why the pundits who decry Donegal's style are missing the point. If you're interested in Gaelic football, how Donegal play the system and how Kildare try to counteract it will be fascinating.
My own tuppence worth,
Donegal will strangle the life out of the Kildare forwards forcing them to shoot from 40+ yards. Kildare are seen as a team that can score from long range, but they're also a team that can hit a lot of wides. Their forwards will be under pressure when in possession and when shooting like never before the season (Dublin included).
This defensive system that we play is only half the story.
When we don't have possession, Donegal will bring 11 men back into our own half. But when we have possession, we'll have a 8-10 man attack with the midfielders and defenders coming forward to support. (Donegal players from 5 to 9 have scored 1-6 in our four games to date, and have set up a pile more.)
Individually, the Donegal forwards are more skilful than their Kildare counterparts and have a better nose for goal. I'm happier have Murphy, McFadden, McBrearty and Hegarty than O'Connor, Kavanagh, Callaghan and O'Flaherty.
Our defenders, supplemented by our half forwards and midfield, is solid. Everyone knows about Lacey and Cassidy, but Neil McGee at full back has probably been our best defender this season and Anthony Thompson is as hard as nails. McGee will blot O'Connor out, I think, with either Lacey or Thompson taking Kavanagh. If Kavanagh can be kept quiet (and his head will be wrecked with the attacking play of both those defenders) then Donegal will be on the way to victory.
Our midfield isn't the strongest, but then neither is the injury hit Kildare one. Watch out for Durcan's kickouts - he's the new Cluxton.
This is Kildare's fourth game in four weeks. Donegal were off last weekend, we have no serious injuries and come into the game fresher. Like Kildare, we are a second half team and finish strongly. That's when the game will be won.
It's going to be fascinating.
Donegal are 2/1 with William Hill. I'll be having some of that.
Not too far off with that assessment. I think Kildare will get suffocated out of it.
I'd go as far as saying I think Donegal could win this comfortably.
QuoteThere seems to be a lot of concern with how Kildare will cope with the Donegal style. I don't think they'll be that bothered with it personally.
My only concern is that Kildare did struggle for longer periods against Dublin afer O'Gara got sent off and they dropped 12 players in behind the ball but we still managed to reduce a 6 point gap and Dublin on paper are a better side than Donegal.
But in saying that we have 13 players who can score so Donegal will have to work very very hard to close Kildare down as it's the not case of isolating one or two scoring fowards.
Quote
Paudie O'Neill and Flaherty óg were very effective on the forty
And leper as well as Lynchbhoy keeps reminding me but Flaherty óg was superb last week, he's like a new Declan Kerrigan accept more talented.
History is also against Donegal as teams that break through their province generally go out in the next round, mentally I can't see them been right for a battle as they will still be coming down off the high of winning Ulster.
As along as Kildare go toe to toe with Donegal for the first 50 I can Kildare pulling away in the the last 20 minutes.
I don't think donegal will still be on a high at all from the ulster win Jim had the lads at the beach the morning after the final for recovery session and they were all bck at full training the tuesday after the final and from talking to both the players and Jim after the final in clones they all have there eyes on a bigger prize
Looking forward to this, having seen both teams comfortably see off Derry over the past 2 weekends, I honestly don't have a clue who will win.
Both impressed me for totally different reasons and Kildare were a breath of fresh air to watch as opposed to what I witnessed the weekend before.
I think Kildare have more about them, but by fcuk that Donegal side could smother any team with their incredible work rate (Kildare's impressed last weekend too).
I think I'll have to side with kildare as I think they have more scoring potential, particularly if Murphy plays out the field like he's been forced to over the past few games.
Quote from: donegal lad on July 29, 2011, 03:03:59 PM
I don't think donegal will still be on a high at all from the ulster win Jim had the lads at the beach the morning after the final for recovery session and they were all bck at full training the tuesday after the final and from talking to both the players and Jim after the final in clones they all have there eyes on a bigger prize
Unless you have experience of winning finals it's very hard to regain focus, they are saying and doing all the right things but in a team dynamic it's very hard for all players to retain the right mental attitude, I don't think enough Donegal players will be mentally prepared for what Kildare bring to the table.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 29, 2011, 02:14:15 PM
There seems to be a lot of concern with how Kildare will cope with the Donegal style. I don't think they'll be that bothered with it personally. In recent times, Kildare have only been beaten by fast, open, attacking football in high scoring games - Louth, Down & Dublin. Unlike Kildare teams of the past, this team is well set up, if not suited, to a dogfight.
I agree with this. Systems ain't gonna win big games in Croke Park. Kildare won't be too fazed by men behind the ball and won't have their gameplan dictated by it. McGeeney and those Armagh boys invented this shit. Dublin are a year ahead of Donegal in playing this system and Kildare coped ok.
It's much easier to get round in Croke Park. Kildare also won't make the mistake of automatically granting Donegal license to sit back and counter. If you give Murphy and McFadden the freedom of your own half to attack like Derry did, you're not gonna win.
Donegal will need to post 18 points to win this and I can't see them doing it unless they get a few goals. Kildare have a better balance between defence and attack and are more evolved than Donegal. It's one thing bottling up toothless attacks in Ulster like Antrim, Cavan and Derry minus the Bradleys. It's another to do it to a team like Kildare who create more chances any nearly any other team and will run all day.
Tyrone should have been out of sight at half time v Donegal and faded badly in the second half missing half a dozen scorable frees. They're aiming to peak in August make no mistake and are a different outfit currently.
If Donegal can keep it very tight and low scoring they have a great chance. However, I don't think this will happen. Rarely does at this stage of the season on the big pitch.
My Kildare friend reckons they'll win this by at least 6 points.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 29, 2011, 03:29:20 PM
My Kildare friend reckons they'll win this by at least 6 points.
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z472/cilldara2/wereupforsam-Copy.jpg?t=1311953707)
No harm to yous but there is some crap written on this thread. As i predicted after the Ulster final, watch every ejit now jump on the bandwagon about "systems" and "11 men behind the ball". Anyone who knows anything will know there is much more to Donegal than getting men back into defence.
I also predict that Kildare will be well fit for Donegal and will match them for work rate, disciplined tackling and hunger.
The team who attacks most in this game will win!
It will be interesting to see if four games in four weeks catches up with Kildare. (It did with Donegal in 2009 :-\)
They're fit, no doubt about that, but so too are Donegal who will be fresher for the week's break.
Most opponents for both sides have died out in the last quarter - I don't think either side will fade tomorrow. Hammer and tongs until the end.
We'll see what Kildare's hunger and work rate is like tomorrow. In training this week they'll have been trying to replicate the Donegal challenge, but that's impossible to do, and they haven't faced the like of it all year.
Kildare gave the Derry attack far too much space - Muldoon and Mullan got through for some easy scores – Donegal will punish them if they do that again.
And no harm to the Derry defence, but they were miles off the men (esp Kavanagh and O'Connor). Donegal won't give them an inch of room and when Kavanagh or O'Connor or Doyle or Kelly wins the ball within 40 yards of the posts, he'll have 3/4 Donegal defenders for company.
Kildare are tough opponents, but Donegal will have the measure of them. ;)
Just noticed that Paddy Powers odds on this game have shifted considerably towards Kildare meaning that money is going on them. Kildare are now hot favs. I'm far from convinced and think it is possibly going to be the tightest game of the year so far. A draw?.. after extra time.
Cill Dara SF (v Dún na nGall):
1 Shane Connolly (Naomh Lorcan)
2 Aindriú MacLochlainn (Baile Eilis)
3 Mick Foley (Ath Í)
4 Hugh McGrillen (Cill Droichid)
5 Brian Flanagan (Baile Droichead Sheáin)
6 Morgan O'Flaherty (Cairbre)
7 Emmet Bolton (Baile Éide)
8 Johnny Doyle (Fíodh Alúine)
9 Daryl Flynn (Achadh Mhórdha)
10 Pádraig O'Neill (Naomh Lorcan)
11 Eoghan O'Flaherty (Cairbre)
12 Éamonn Callaghan (Nás na Ríogh)
13 Rob Kelly (Teach Srafáin)
14 Tomás O'Connor (Claonadh)
15 James Kavanagh (Baile Mór)
Flanno in for Chalky at right half back as anticipated.
Quote from: ck on July 29, 2011, 08:26:27 PM
Just noticed that Paddy Powers odds on this game have shifted considerably towards Kildare meaning that money is going on them. Kildare are now hot favs. I'm far from convinced and think it is possibly going to be the tightest game of the year so far. A draw?.. after extra time.
I'd agree, with the systems that both teams employ they'll each be hard to break down, I reckon it'll end up about 04 - 04 at the end of full time. Kildare will prevail in extra time because they have been playing their system for longer now and they'll have the greater confidence that their system will prevail.
Has there ever been a game before where both teams had scores in negative figures? ;)
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 29, 2011, 04:36:40 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 29, 2011, 03:29:20 PM
My Kildare friend reckons they'll win this by at least 6 points.
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z472/cilldara2/wereupforsam-Copy.jpg?t=1311953707)
I never saw the like of that hat before or since.
It's no wonder Seán Brady was trying to avoid him.
for one night only vs celebrity head chef.
kildare win prelims ..
All the best to Donegal & Jim today. This could be a cracker game of high intensity.
Ye never know it could be like 2005, an Ulster Semi with a Donegal v Mayo final.
Cant see how Donegal are being tipped for this one. Kildare pushed Derry aside and the Oakleafs were not to far away from taking Donegal in the Ulster Final.
Kildare have to much strength and not many Donegal players would be able to earn a White jersey
Kildare by 3
Quote from: alan partridge on July 30, 2011, 12:34:43 PM
Cant see how Donegal are being tipped for this one. Kildare pushed Derry aside and the Oakleafs were not to far away from taking Donegal in the Ulster Final.
Kildare have to much strength and not many Donegal players would be able to earn a White jersey
Kildare by 3
Donegal beat us by six points ........ as did Kildare. Define 'not too far' ............
Quote from: alan partridge on July 30, 2011, 12:34:43 PM
Cant see how Donegal are being tipped for this one. Kildare pushed Derry aside and the Oakleafs were not to far away from taking Donegal in the Ulster Final.
Kildare have to much strength and not many Donegal players would be able to earn a White jersey
Kildare by 3
First, looking around the Irish papers and media on the net, most pundits are tipping Kildare to win this, albeit narrowly, like yourself. Second, Donegal thoroughly outplayed Derry in the second half of the Ulster final. The range of opinions on which penalty decisions were or were not correct (and there's been every permutation as to that correctness presented here and in the press) doesn't change that. If you want to argue that goals change games and the Donegal penalty should not have been given (it should have, IMO), let's not forget the marginal call that went against Derry in the Kildare match (the tv angle I saw suggested Muldoon moved a split second early, but it could easily have been given, possibly correctly by other angles). Perhaps Kildare would have won anyway, but I'm pretty confident Donegal would have too, even without the penalty. As to your views on Kildare's apparent althletic (or is it squad depth?) superiority and the paucity of Donegal players who would make their team, well we'll have some idea in a few hours (allowing, of course, that any player or team can have an off-day).
(And please, let's not rehash the penalty debate. I'm convinced I'm right, so are all of you and every pundit out there who disagree of the rights and wrongs of those calls)
I agree that Kildare are marginal favourites, as they have the longer track record as a group under their manager and an intimidating athleticism and scoring record, especially from out the field, which is where Tyrone and Derry failed against us. There is also the psychological factor. By all accounts, the Donegal team got a rousing welcome back to Donegal Town two weeks ago. Maybe that will be enough for some boys at the back of their mind, for this year anyway. The Donegal lads are saying all the right things about not settling for an Ulster title, but in the midst of the intense contest this evening, who knows what their hunger levels will be. The "inches" stuff may be a cliche at this point, but it matters.
On the plus side, we are also very well drilled, and extremely fit and athletic. In all four games to date, we have strangled the life of the attacking forwards in the second halves of each game. Derry got three points in the second half, same as Tyrone. Think Cavan got a similar total, although they scored a goal from an injury time penalty when we were 12 points up. Given that Kildare, to date, HAVE been able to hit the long range scores and are reknowned as a team that can turn the screws in the second half, I would obviously doubt that we will be as efficient this time, but we'll see. It also remains to be seen how our lads up front will do, especially with a full back of the calibre of Foley on Murphy, but with the right ball in, I'd always be confident of Murphy more than holding his own. Whether the lads around can do the same and maintain the level of marksmanship that they have to date is another matter. I'll be very disappointed if we don't win it, but as long as the lads give it their best, you can't question them or ask for more. I certainly don't think we'll see any collapses or descents into petulant indiscipline from this team like we did in a number of games over the last decade. The opportunity to wave the white flag was presented 20 minutes in against Tyrone, but the team refused to lie down and stuck to it. At the time, Donegal received all kinds of criticism for that first league game this year when they drew with Sligo in Ballybofey, but that comeback from eight points down with 15-20 minutes to go was an encouraging and significant moment and I said so at the time. There wasn't too many comebacks like that from Donegal teams over the last decade. If they lose this evening, all you can ask as a supporter is that they go down with a fight, and that spirit and belief is something that McGuinness, so far, has definitely instilled in this team, along with the tactical system. And given our record in recent years, no matter what happens tonight (barring an indisciplined collapse!), this season will be considered a roaring success by Donegal supporters.
Donegal by 2 ;D
6-15pm
Donegal saying that Micheal Murphy won't be starting.
Quote from: drici on July 30, 2011, 05:22:27 PM
Donegal saying that Micheal Murphy won't be starting.
Bollocks! He'll hardly even be on the bench if he can't start then.
Come on Kildare... 8)
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2011, 05:39:35 PM
Quote from: drici on July 30, 2011, 05:22:27 PM
Donegal saying that Micheal Murphy won't be starting.
Bollocks! He'll hardly even be on the bench if he can't start then.
Looks like its true
I did a bet on Donegal 20 mins ago.
If I had have known Murphy wasn't starting, I'd never have placed that bet.
So f**k you McGuinness, and Donegal.
Marty Morrisey is making this game hard to watch, someone needs to explain the meaning of the word irony to him.
Quote from: bendurback on July 30, 2011, 06:27:42 PM
Marty Morrisey is making this game hard to watch, someone needs to explain the meaning of the word irony to him.
Or the term shut up
:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
This has the potential to be the lowest scoring quarter final ever...
This is almost unwatchable and not because of Marty.
This is Puke fistball.
Can't stand this Donegal team. They are a disgrace to the sport. And Ive always had a soft spot for Donegal, would always have cheered for them in years past. Not this year. Come on to **** Kildare, let this team get no further.
4-2 Lillywhites
Kildare are a wee bit too good here.
Donegal will need to scrap all these men behind the ball or they'll go nowhere in this game.
D'gal need to figure out how to get it past opponents 50yd line. Kildare will just let them fanny about 60 yrds out tiring themselves. D'gal defence is good though, first time viewing their new 'system'!
Double substitution from McGuinness - Murphy on
more kildare wides as usual - if they converted a higher percentage of their chances (of which they create a bucket load every single match without fail) they'd be the best team in Ireland
2 sets of f**king gym monkeys... This isn't football!!
I tell you what the 'minnows' in the curtain-raiser almost put on a better game than these 'big-boys'. ;)
Donegal lucky to get that last score before half time - ref played about 45 seconds more than he should have
5-3 at HT - kildare hopefully going to give us a usual second half performance and scrap this out by 5 points
Brutal stuff and its nothing to do with Marty . Imagine paying in to watch it
Quote from: screenexile on July 30, 2011, 06:53:38 PM
2 sets of f**king gym monkeys... This isn't football!!
Never a truer word spoken!
G'wan Pat!!
What is it about a blanket defence that makes footballers think they're capable of superhuman feats of kickpassing?
Here is a handy hint for all footballers. When your preferred target for a pass is being double-marked, this is not a challenge to your powers, but is a recommendation that you should choose a new target. Stopping kicking the ball away.
Still hating Donegal. There's no point in GAA officials asking for teams to be named if players don't take the field. It's wrong. Bookies are the only winners in these scanarios.
Spillane - "Don't know whether to laugh or cry"
This is all we need to do to make our sport better:
1 Reduce the number of players from 15 to 13.
2 Allow the hand pass to take any shape apart from a definite throw - open or closed hand, overhand striking action etc
3 Allow all free's to be taken by hand-pass if the team receiving the free wishes
4 Take away the 'too short' rule for free's and kick outs
5 Introduce immediate yellow cards for any pull of the jersey and immediate red cards for 'last man' tackle, or denying a clear goal scoring opportunity
This will get rid of an awful lot of the cynicism and disgusting displays of anti football we've seen in the past 15 years - I'm embarrassed watching this and comparing it to Aussie Rules and to a certain extent hurling
Get over it wobbler, believe or not but they don't play the game so you can win a punt in the bookies!
Yes Wobbler, thats another one:
6 Your team must be announced 1 hour before throw in and any changes between then and the start of the game will count as a substitution, of which you are only allowed 5 from 1 hour before throw in until the final whistle
Quote from: WeePeteIsALegend on July 30, 2011, 07:09:07 PM
Spillane - "Don't know whether to laugh or cry"
This is all we need to do to make our sport better:
1 Reduce the number of players from 15 to 13.
2 Allow the hand pass to take any shape apart from a definite throw - open or closed hand, overhand striking action etc
3 Allow all free's to be taken by hand-pass if the team receiving the free wishes
4 Take away the 'too short' rule for free's and kick outs
5 Introduce immediate yellow cards for any pull of the jersey and immediate red cards for 'last man' tackle, or denying a clear goal scoring opportunity
This will get rid of an awful lot of the cynicism and disgusting displays of anti football we've seen in the past 15 years - I'm embarrassed watching this and comparing it to Aussie Rules and to a certain extent hurling
With all the giving out about the hand pass, why not just ban it altogether, you'd definetly see "foot"ball then!
Can't believe I paid 20 bucks to watch this shite
What are you all on about?
This is the best game since Armagh vs Tyrone in 2005.
I would agree with my Kildare friend that they should win this by at least 6 points.
Quote from: screenexile on July 30, 2011, 07:03:38 PM
G'wan Pat!!
He's looking for a bit of 'gay abandon' in the 2nd half. Good luck with that.
Weepetesalegend should football ever become 13 a side, we might as well rename it 'running quickly into space'. Thanks, but I'd prefer the game we have.
Because there is nothing better than seeing a move that includes both a few punt passes with a few quick hand passes and then a great 30 yard point
Hand passes are essential for the speed and excitement of the game, but the GAA are stifling the game because there are now so many rules around it
Watch a full game of Aussie Rules and see just how exciting that sport is, with lots of advantage plays and quick hand passes to release players into space before a good kick down field
7 Where possible make our fields bigger by 10 metres in width and length
Donegal are a horrible team.
Hope Kildare score a few goals and win by 10. Heaven forbid that the next generation of football managers think the jim mcguiness way is the way forward.
Fair play they won Ulster but let it end here
Re Spillanes nonsense about "give me 13 rugby league players and 2 class forwards" would it not be easier to just get 13 superfit gaelic footballers like Kildare and give them 2 class forwards?
Quote from: thewobbler on July 30, 2011, 07:17:17 PM
Weepetesalegend should football ever become 13 a side, we might as well rename it 'running quickly into space'. Thanks, but I'd prefer the game we have.
I can't see how you could possibly prefer THIS to anything
13 a side creates more space which would mean more long kicking to forwards getting away from their men, not more quick running. Most inter county footballers are quick enough athletes anyway, most at about the same pace, so I don't see how taking two players away means more of running into space - just because theres more space does not mean more running - it means more kicking
Terrible decision on the square ball.
Ball of post and Mcstay says that is plays everyone onside!!! Hilarious
6-6
Disturbing
Anybody have a stream for the game?! Im in Switzerland so rte or bbc don't work!
8 Immediate yellow card for any blocking of a run of an opponent off the ball
I would be seriously annoyed if I paid to see this.
Future of Gaelic football...
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Goal for donegal
Donegal goal! worrying for Kildare. the disallowed goal could well be crucial.
Does persistent fouling count for nothing nowadays? There hasn't been a good tackle in it, constant grabbing of opponents rather than trying to tackle and stopping off the ball running. Pat Spillane's right, Donegal are a crowd of wankers...We need a referee who will book players who foul more than 3 or 4 times...
Kildare failing to convert 95% of their chances (apu) has cost them this game
Looks like kildare are gona be found out,just goes to show all the gym work of the day is no substitute for game play
Quote from: screenmachine on July 30, 2011, 07:42:36 PM
Does persistent fouling count for nothing nowadays? There hasn't been a good tackle in it, constant grabbing of opponents rather than trying to tackle and stopping off the ball running. Pat Spillane's right, Donegal are a crowd of w**kers...We need a referee who will book players who foul more than 3 or 4 times...
Yeah we need individual and team foul counts in football. But we've bother enough getting referees, getting a bunch of separate officials to count fouls and do the clock - no chance. Every 7(?) team fouls = 45 in front of posts. Seem to manage foul count in every high school basketball game, but to complex for us.
Can't miss those - very very poor
come on donegal!!!!!!!!!!
terrible wide.....not the standard of a team hoping to win an AI
I am usually neutral in these games as I only have eyes for Meath .....but Donegal are a horrible team. Hope kildare equalise.
Excellent second half, on the edge of my seat here
Play for the draw ref
ET or replay?
Come on Kildare! I'm a hypocrite but feck it - I have loved the second half
come on ref, blow it up, kildare will do them in ET
After that goal being disallowed you would have to have felt for Kildare if they had lost this. Especially since the Dublin game they were robbed too.
ET.
COME ON TO **** KILDARE!!!
McStay is disgracefully biased.
Exciting finish to a very poor 70 minutes. I know Kildare had a good goal disallowed. But I felt that last free was very soft. Cant see Donegal winning now.
QuoteMcStay is disgracefully biased.
Towards who? ???
Cill Dara Abu - First bit of excitment I have had in a while with this year's league.
That young no. 13 could be a good option to bring on in extra time for Donegal. Could cause trouble against tiring legs
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 30, 2011, 07:57:20 PM
After that goal being disallowed you would have to have felt for Kildare if they had lost this. Especially since the Dublin game they were robbed too.
ET.
Whatever about the disallowed goal, the ref done his bit to bring Kildare back for the draw. The last free was debatable and the one scored from the wing before that was a blatant pick up off the ground.
Quote from: oakleafgael on July 30, 2011, 08:08:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 30, 2011, 07:57:20 PM
After that goal being disallowed you would have to have felt for Kildare if they had lost this. Especially since the Dublin game they were robbed too.
ET.
Whatever about the disallowed goal, the ref done his bit to bring Kildare back for the draw. The last free was debatable and the one scored from the wing before that was a blatant pick up off the ground.
So what you're saying is the ref still owes Kildare a point...............?
2nd half a bit better anyway, exciting finish at least.
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3088d189fa14132a02b1485f3faed79e5426f6d37cd51a290f4cff57770981bd6g.jpg)
Some rare shooting from Kildare today.
McGeeney pulling a Harte with Doyle.
Geez, McFadden is having a stinker today....
O'Flaherty off is interesting; Must be feeling rough cos he was playing some excellent stuff.
Donegal need another green flag to have a chance now imo - can't get to grips with Kildare's midfield
hmm, not impressed with kildares last 2 challenges. Are they going to try to hold onto this 2 point lead for the rest of the game?
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/22b41f37fddf112d377671252304c296d36a992b74bfe09d9e304e90fd8d9bb06g.jpg)
Kildare doing a bit of cynical fouling here.
comon donegal
didn't see that coming!!
drici knew :D
How in the name of holy sweet **** did Kildare lose that game of 'football'
couldnt see donegal winning that at all at half time of extra time.
I was actually shouting for Donegal in extra time because Kildare were just too cynical. However, that definitely looked like a free in to me for Kildare towards the end, just before Donegal's last attack.
Clear foul not given to Kildare on the 21 yard line that would have won the match for them.
Hell of a score from Cassidy...still an awful team to watch...;)
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 30, 2011, 08:33:14 PM
Kildare doing a bit of cynical fouling here.
Hardly as cynical as trying to take John Doyle out of the game in the first couple of minutes :-\
QuoteClear foul not given to Kildare on the 21 yard line that would have won the match for them.
While I agree it was a foul, Kildare really only have themselves to blame for losing that game.
In fairness, they had a perfectly legitimate goal disallowed.
Just how much of a delay is there on Highland? is it over ;/
Fair play to Donegal really dug it out of the fire . Kildare very cynical when they had the upper hand . Well done Jim Mc Guiness
karl lacey had some game!
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 30, 2011, 08:41:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 30, 2011, 08:33:14 PM
Kildare doing a bit of cynical fouling here.
Hardly as cynical as trying to take John Doyle out of the game in the first couple of minutes :-\
I didn't see that but from what I could gauge it was unintentional...
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 30, 2011, 08:41:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 30, 2011, 08:33:14 PM
Kildare doing a bit of cynical fouling here.
Hardly as cynical as trying to take John Doyle out of the game in the first couple of minutes :-\
Is that a fact? Or your opinion? The coverage I saw wasn't exactly clear on that point.
Quote from: bcarrier on July 30, 2011, 08:01:23 PM
McStay is disgracefully biased.
Well, that's a load of crap.
Kildare cynicism cost them. Really enjoyable 2nd half and extra time. Fair play to Donegal lads- they certainly have guts
Disappointed to see kildare lose at the end. Thought it would be a draw.
I dont know the players but Kildare were on the attack when they were a point up and one of their players had the ball. Johnny Doyle broke free to his left and asked for the ball but the player kick passed it into the right corner where they lost the ball and the equaliser was scored from that. That was crucial. In fairness to Donegal their last two points were great scores.
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2011, 08:46:36 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 30, 2011, 08:41:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 30, 2011, 08:33:14 PM
Kildare doing a bit of cynical fouling here.
Hardly as cynical as trying to take John Doyle out of the game in the first couple of minutes :-\
Is that a fact? Or your opinion? The coverage I saw wasn't exactly clear on that point.
My opinion...maybe it was just coincidental that it happened to be Kildare's danger man.
Quote from: bridgegael on July 30, 2011, 08:44:28 PM
karl lacey had some game!
Agreed, he was my man of the match.
Jez, Marty Morrisey should have worn a white jersey! His commentry was all about Kildare (not Kildares fault). Kildare have been the love child of RTE for the last 2 years. had to watch extra time with the volume down.
Sweet f**king jesus that was intense!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Firstly, very hard luck to Kildare. Ref should probably have blown it up, and they had a perfectly good goal disallowed, an incident which appeared to sting Donegal into life for the rest of the game. We should have won that game in normal game when we missed a few easy chances after the goal, but I have never seen such a gutsy performance from a Donegal team as I did in that second period of extra time! I thought we were dead and buried, especially when Cassidy missed the first chance, but what a way to win it!! Lacey was immense and should be a cert for another All Star, but McGee and the rest of the defense and the likes of McHugh and Bradley had superb games as well. Midfield we struggled in at times, but Neil Gallagher and Cassidy were superb in the second period of extra time when we depserately needed to win some ball. Murphy, for a player who was plainly not fit, hit a couple of great scores and a pressure free towards the end to reduce it to a point. Bad day for McFadden, but he was surrounded by several players every time the ball went near him.
People talk about us with the systematic fouling... how many times was Ryan Bradley taken out in extra time?
delighted for donegal. fair play to them, they kept going when they looked dead and buried.
Quote from: bridgegael on July 30, 2011, 08:44:28 PM
karl lacey had some game!
Lacey outstanding covererd every blade of grass on the field
Most importantly fair play to the two teams, the slagging they got at half time from RTE was over the top in my opinion, from the second half onwards it was a fantastic game where every player but every ounce of energy to win any ball. That game will live long in the memory, cassidy had some balls on him going for that final score after missing from a similar distance just minutes before. Kildare will be devastated with the loss after being three points up in extra time as well as the dubious goal. A replay probably would have been a fair result but congratulations Donegal!!!! This coming from a Tyrone man, we look forward to meeting use in the semi ;)
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 30, 2011, 08:54:01 PM
Jez, Marty Morrisey should have worn a white jersey! His commentry was all about Kildare (not Kildares fault). Kildare have been the love child of RTE for the last 2 years. had to watch extra time with the volume down.
+1
Quote from: SHEEDY on July 30, 2011, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 30, 2011, 08:54:01 PM
Jez, Marty Morrisey should have worn a white jersey! His commentry was all about Kildare (not Kildares fault). Kildare have been the love child of RTE for the last 2 years. had to watch extra time with the volume down.
+1
+2 McStay is as bad.
What a nail biting finish to the game. Well done to Donegal, although a draw would have been a much fairer result. Should have been a free in for Kildare before donegals final attack, plus the disallowed goal was not right. Saying that, kildares overly obvious cynical fouling was annoying to watch, but the last 2 great Donegal scores were the best iv seen under such huge pressure.
Overall, didn't think much of either team, can't see Donegal progressing any further. Would like to meet them in the semi final if we can beat Dublin, which I doubt, although I think we, Tyrone, will book our place in the final if we overcome the dubs.
QuoteJez, Marty Morrisey should have worn a white jersey! His commentry was all about Kildare (not Kildares fault). Kildare have been the love child of RTE for the last 2 years. had to watch extra time with the volume down.
All I heard him saying over & over was what a tactical defensive game it was...
Ref shafted kildare, three up in the second half, disallows a perfect good goal, that would have put them 6 up, game over, never mind the foul 30 secs from the end in front of the goal, he thought Donegal wouldn't score you see. What a tosser of a ref, another major f**k up.
Quote from: bcarrier on July 30, 2011, 09:00:22 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on July 30, 2011, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 30, 2011, 08:54:01 PM
Jez, Marty Morrisey should have worn a white jersey! His commentry was all about Kildare (not Kildares fault). Kildare have been the love child of RTE for the last 2 years. had to watch extra time with the volume down.
+1
+2 McStay is as bad.
Army man, has alot of friends in the curragh!
10/10 for excitement and guts from both teams - 2nd half onwards.
Great for Donegal to win in that manner, out for the count in extra time but got up to take the game, they found a third wind from somewhere.
Wow what a game! i feel honoured to be there, defending at it's super scores end to end stuff. Feel sorry for kildare they gave everything but if they keep at it there will be all ireland in that team.
Isnt it amazing how 2 poor sides, going on today's display, could create such an exciting game. Very little skill from both teams, more a game of stamina and guts.
I'd be very confident that Tyrone will hammer donegal should we beat the dubs!
Quote from: bcarrier on July 30, 2011, 09:00:22 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on July 30, 2011, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 30, 2011, 08:54:01 PM
Jez, Marty Morrisey should have worn a white jersey! His commentry was all about Kildare (not Kildares fault). Kildare have been the love child of RTE for the last 2 years. had to watch extra time with the volume down.
+1
+2 McStay is as bad.
I'm fed up with the two of them myself.
Quote from: TyroneRahilly on July 30, 2011, 09:17:35 PM
Isnt it amazing how 2 poor sides, going on today's display, could create such an exciting game. Very little skill from both teams, more a game of stamina and guts.
I'd be very confident that Tyrone will hammer donegal should we beat the dubs!
Were you one of the boys singing "easy, easy" after 20 minutes the last day we played you? :D
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2011, 09:23:22 PM
Quote from: TyroneRahilly on July 30, 2011, 09:17:35 PM
Isnt it amazing how 2 poor sides, going on today's display, could create such an exciting game. Very little skill from both teams, more a game of stamina and guts.
I'd be very confident that Tyrone will hammer donegal should we beat the dubs!
Were you one of the boys singing "easy, easy" after 20 minutes the last day we played you? :D
I knew that was coming lol We had serious problems with accuracy that day. Should have been a cricket score result but hey Donegal won fair and square. let's hope we meet in the semis, to settle the score! My gf is from Donegal so I kinda had to show my support to Donegal today :)
Quote from: ross4life on July 30, 2011, 09:12:02 PM
Wow what a game! i feel honoured to be there, defending at it's super scores end to end stuff. Feel sorry for kildare they gave everything but if they keep at it there will be all ireland in that team.
Are you serious? Do you really think that? There is no guarantee that kildare will improve whic they must do if they are to get any further next year.
I wanted Kildare to win but they are well off winning an All-Ireland. This year was a great opportunity to progress and they failed to do so albeit unlucky because of the disallowed goal.
Quote from: TyroneRahilly on July 30, 2011, 09:17:35 PM
Isnt it amazing how 2 poor sides, going on today's display, could create such an exciting game. Very little skill from both teams, more a game of stamina and guts.
I'd be very confident that Tyrone will hammer donegal should we beat the dubs!
That remains to be seen, but in terms of football, it'll be a very dark day for our game if that shite succeeds
and heavens forbid wins an AI :-\
Quote from: ross4life on July 30, 2011, 09:12:02 PM
Wow what a game! i feel honoured to be there, defending at it's super scores end to end stuff. Feel sorry for kildare they gave everything but if they keep at it there will be all ireland in that team.
Extra time was exciting but I thought that overall it was a poor match. Possesion was given over very easily with slack passing and a lot of the shooting was poor. Gripping enough at the end but not much of a spectacle up to that point. Not that Donegal will care!
see mcgeeney's influence is getting through to kildare at last " take a yellow card each boys,just stop them playing" cynical to say the least.
Genuine hard luck to the kildare lads, I think the run off games caught ye in the end, that and a couple of strange subs by geezer..........................chin up lads
Very proud of the team, never gave up we just have no luck and with the amount of fluke deflections that went against us I just knew it wasn't our day. But we haven't played well this year, our midfield hasn't been great although Flynn was very good tonight and we just haven't had that creative spark in the middle third that we had in 09 and 10.
I have a feeling that might be McGeeney's last stand very non-committal after the game but we'll wait and see.
And best of luck to Donegal, showed greater hunger and defiance in extra time and just wouldn't lie down, f**k the begrudgers and drive her home.
Proud as always to be a Lily.
Just back.
Didnt enjoy it all.
Thought it was a horrible game to watch.
God help Gaelic Football if Donegal's style proves successful.
Bad day at the office for referees again.
Kildare robbed.
I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times. I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was. Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.
Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side. It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further. That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty. They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 10:14:00 PM
I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.
Where could you possibly be going with this Benny!
There's more chance of me managing Ourma than McGeeney under the current Co Board set up if you think that's where I'm going :-[
Why all the focus on Donegal's defensive tendencies? Kildare weren't exactly lacking for numbers in the backline from what I saw. And we were on the defensive for long stretches anyway, just given Kildare's periods of dominance at midfield. What are we supposed to do? Let them have all the space of Croke Park? And its not like we weren't throwing men forward, at least after half-time. Frank McGlynn, the corner back, provided the final pass for at least 1-1, from inside the Kildare 20m line. f**k me, you'd swear we'd invented the bloody tactic this year given the bleating. Or is just that its got us to an AI semi? Its especially ironic coming from some of the Tyrone men!
well done Donegal, you overcame Kildares strategic fouling in ET .
Although Kildares goal should have stood and would have seen them through, however what beat kildare was only going in at HT 2 points up when Donegal went 30 minutes without scoring.
Best of luck Donegal.
Well done to Donegal but I think even the most ardent Donegal fan would admit they were a bit lucky today. I'd like to see this team coming out and playing the expansive football they are capable of. I fear that if they try this defensive formation next time they may not be so lucky. Hard luck to Kildare, I really thought that you had a chance of making it to the AI final this year.
It was hard to watch at times compared to the free-scoring fare produced by Tyrone/Roscommon. A lot of the reason was the massed defences but that in itself doesn't excuse some of the faffing around passing two yards to each other thirty yards from goals before another aimless wide.
That said, it was edge of the seat stuff and the poor standard won't worry Donegal supporters tonight.
I thought Hugh McGrillen was outstanding tonight for Kildare and didn't deserve to be on the losing siide.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:12:30 PM
Just back.
Didnt enjoy it all.
Thought it was a horrible game to watch.
God help Gaelic Football if Donegal's style proves successful.
Bad day at the office for referees again.
Kildare robbed.
At this stage Indy, I'd expect the same response if you'd just been to Willie Wonkas Chocolate Factory the same day the Brazilian beach volleyball team were visiting.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 10:14:00 PM
I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times. I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was. Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.
Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side. It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further. That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty. They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.
Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.
Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.
Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.
As it should have.
Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 30, 2011, 10:46:33 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:12:30 PM
Just back.
Didnt enjoy it all.
Thought it was a horrible game to watch.
God help Gaelic Football if Donegal's style proves successful.
Bad day at the office for referees again.
Kildare robbed.
At this stage Indy, I'd expect the same response if you'd just been to Willie Wonkas Chocolate Factory the same day the Brazilian beach volleyball team were visiting.
At this stage you've nothing original to say. Bit like Meath football at present. Or their referees perhaps.
I said plenty about Cork's exhibition last week. Someone should lend the video to Mc Guinness.
Quote from: north down on July 30, 2011, 10:35:38 PM
Well done to Donegal but I think even the most ardent Donegal fan would admit they were a bit lucky today. I'd like to see this team coming out and playing the expansive football they are capable of. I fear that if they try this defensive formation next time they may not be so lucky. Hard luck to Kildare, I really thought that you had a chance of making it to the AI final this year.
No argument, Kildare were hard done by. That square ball decision was vital, and as things stood up at that point, it would have hard to see us claw them back completely from six points down (not impossible though - I for one thought we were down and out in extra time). But that's the way it goes. We've been on the wrong end of questionable decisions many times, and will be again.
What pleased me most, regardless of how the game finished or the tactics and styles of play, was the guts shown by the team. We have a Donegal squad that will not give up. For people who've followed this team over the past decade, that is just extraordinary!
I thought the first half was awful though. Had I not been a frustrated supporter, I wouldn't have tuned back in for the second! From that point on though, it was edge of seat!
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:49:39 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 30, 2011, 10:46:33 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:12:30 PM
Just back.
Didnt enjoy it all.
Thought it was a horrible game to watch.
God help Gaelic Football if Donegal's style proves successful.
Bad day at the office for referees again.
Kildare robbed.
At this stage Indy, I'd expect the same response if you'd just been to Willie Wonkas Chocolate Factory the same day the Brazilian beach volleyball team were visiting.
At this stage you've nothing original to say. Bit like Meath football at present. Or their referees perhaps.
I said plenty about Cork's exhibition last week. Someone should lend the video to Mc Guinness.
In fairness that was highly original, all sorts of imagery conjured up!
(http://www.anzeigervonsaanen.ch/images/2008/07/27/beachvolleysiegerherren2.jpg)
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 10:14:00 PM
I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times. I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was. Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.
Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side. It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further. That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty. They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.
Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.
Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.
Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.
As it should have.
Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.
A game takes on a different dynamic once a score is given, unless the ref was going to blow for full-time straight after the 'goal'? Donegal scored 4 points to win the game in extra time after being level at FT and down 3 in ET, so they were obviously well capable of clawing back a lead. To say Kildare would have won if their 'goal' had counted is an exercise in arithmetic that doesn't take into account the plethora of things that can happen in any game and once again it's the sort of short-sighted(shite) analysis that I'd expect from yourself.
I also doubt you were at the game.
to go from watching an entertaining and good game of football like Ros vs Tyrone to Donegal v Kildare was cruel
I was going to leave at half time in Donegal v Kildare, but luckily stayed on to see the tension in the end.
fair play to Donegal.
The negativity showered on Donegal this year is unbelievable.
They have taken the Armagh and (especially) Tyone template and prospered.
Kerry adopted it long since and I hear no outcry.
That is where Gaelic football is and unless you are a partisan spectator you will not get a spectacle unless you pin your colours to somebody's mast. (Or change the rules).
I pinned my colours to Donegal because at least they might bring some joie vivre to a champioship constrained by the dismal "work ethic" of our Ulster colleagues - and in extra time they did when they had to throw caution to the wind and come out and play.
McGuniness seems to have got a cameraderie going and although much of their progres to date has been owed to that dismal ethic that the rules so inadequately allow, when set free to win, they did,
Roll on the Ulster champions, the beautiful game can wait.
We think we play it in Down and we are long gone.
Tir Chonaill abu.
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 30, 2011, 09:32:40 PM
Quote from: TyroneRahilly on July 30, 2011, 09:17:35 PM
Isnt it amazing how 2 poor sides, going on today's display, could create such an exciting game. Very little skill from both teams, more a game of stamina and guts.
I'd be very confident that Tyrone will hammer donegal should we beat the dubs!
That remains to be seen, but in terms of football, it'll be a very dark day for our game if that shite succeeds
and heavens forbid wins an AI :-\
Pat Spillane said something similar in 2003, but i bet you didnt agree with him.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on July 30, 2011, 11:33:09 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 30, 2011, 09:32:40 PM
Quote from: TyroneRahilly on July 30, 2011, 09:17:35 PM
Isnt it amazing how 2 poor sides, going on today's display, could create such an exciting game. Very little skill from both teams, more a game of stamina and guts.
I'd be very confident that Tyrone will hammer donegal should we beat the dubs!
That remains to be seen, but in terms of football, it'll be a very dark day for our game if that shite succeeds
and heavens forbid wins an AI :-\
Pat Spillane said something similar in 2003, but i bet you didnt agree with him.
Spoy on
Puke football rules
Quote from: Leo on July 30, 2011, 11:38:26 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on July 30, 2011, 11:33:09 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 30, 2011, 09:32:40 PM
Quote from: TyroneRahilly on July 30, 2011, 09:17:35 PM
Isnt it amazing how 2 poor sides, going on today's display, could create such an exciting game. Very little skill from both teams, more a game of stamina and guts.
I'd be very confident that Tyrone will hammer donegal should we beat the dubs!
That remains to be seen, but in terms of football, it'll be a very dark day for our game if that shite succeeds
and heavens forbid wins an AI :-\
Pat Spillane said something similar in 2003, but i bet you didnt agree with him.
Spot on
Puke football rules
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2011, 10:52:56 PM
No argument, Kildare were hard done by. That square ball decision was vital,
What is the rule on that?
O'Connor clearly had a foot inside the square before the ball arrived. Is that not a square ball?
I would have thought one foot inside is a defined as being inside the square.
Kildare were not hard done by imo, they had the game in extra time,
but tough for either of them to lose after that effort.
Did anyone think that at the end Kildare should have got a free in but instead the ref let it go.
Then Donegal came down the field and got the winning point.
Its not easy on the eye for anyone, even the Donegal fans themselves but when yer winning and you come out on the right side of exciting games like today, you can't agree that McGuinness has made Donegal a much more mentally stronger team who will fight til the death
At Martin McHugh said on BBC after the game, most Donegal teams in the past would have lost that game. Their spirit, belief, system, work ethic and stubbornness kept them in the game.
I wonder would they prefer to meet the Dubs next and not Tyrone.
Quote from: Main Street on July 30, 2011, 11:42:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 30, 2011, 10:52:56 PM
No argument, Kildare were hard done by. That square ball decision was vital,
What is the rule on that?
O'Connor clearly had a foot inside the square before the ball arrived. Is that not a square ball?
I would have thought one foot inside is a defined as being inside the square.
Kildare were not hard done by imo, they had the game in extra time,
but tough for either of them to lose after that effort.
The rule is that you cannot be in the square before the ball. If was borderline form the replay, it looked like his feet were going in and out of the small square as the ball was coming in to the square prior to hitting the post.
Great day of football today, hats off to both teams for serving up an excellent match. The Tyrone game might have been more easy on the eye but in terms of atmosphere and pure intensity, that Donegal/Kildare game is the best I have seen all year and reminds me Armagh/Tyrone in 05.
Jim McGuinness has worked wonders with that Donegal team, the attitude and belief he has instilled in them is unreal. The end of ET was nearing and the whole stadium thought Kildare had it. But Donegal never gave up, that is a game that will stay long in my memory.
Negative tactics aside - Donegal have been damn lucky this year with big decisions, penalties not given against them, panalties given to them and a clear goal disallowed... can it continue?
Donegal deserve credit for raw hunger and work rate. McGuinness knows they are not good enough to compete in open attacking terms so has given them a game plan that is working. Awful to watch but there is not a team left in the c'ship who will want to play them now.
There is one thing that really bugs me though and that is the fact that Donegal have perfected the strategic foul. They foul consistantly in certain areas of the pitch to kill the pace and break attacks, allowing them to get back in numbers to swarm defence and gain turnovers. You will notice that different players do the fouling (never same player twice in a row) so as to avoid yellow cards. When referees start to act against cynical fouling then the game will be less defensive and Donegals game plan will drastically reduce its impact.
Quote from: tyssam5 on July 30, 2011, 10:56:24 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:49:39 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 30, 2011, 10:46:33 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:12:30 PM
Just back.
Didnt enjoy it all.
Thought it was a horrible game to watch.
God help Gaelic Football if Donegal's style proves successful.
Bad day at the office for referees again.
Kildare robbed.
At this stage Indy, I'd expect the same response if you'd just been to Willie Wonkas Chocolate Factory the same day the Brazilian beach volleyball team were visiting.
At this stage you've nothing original to say. Bit like Meath football at present. Or their referees perhaps.
I said plenty about Cork's exhibition last week. Someone should lend the video to Mc Guinness.
In fairness that was highly original, all sorts of imagery conjured up!
Someone must have said it to him before.
What are the odds!
Quote from: Jinxy on July 30, 2011, 07:13:13 PM
I would agree with my Kildare friend that they should win this by at least 6 points.
Your friend, as usual, is full of shite! :D
Quote from: ck on July 31, 2011, 12:16:34 AM
Negative tactics aside - Donegal have been damn lucky this year with big decisions, penalties not given against them, panalties given to them and a clear goal disallowed... can it continue?
Donegal deserve credit for raw hunger and work rate. McGuinness knows they are not good enough to compete in open attacking terms so has given them a game plan that is working. Awful to watch but there is not a team left in the c'ship who will want to play them now.
There is one thing that really bugs me though and that is the fact that Donegal have perfected the strategic foul. They foul consistantly in certain areas of the pitch to kill the pace and break attacks, allowing them to get back in numbers to swarm defence and gain turnovers. You will notice that different players do the fouling (never same player twice in a row) so as to avoid yellow cards. When referees start to act against cynical fouling then the game will be less defensive and Donegals game plan will drastically reduce its impact.
I know this is a discussion board and everyone is entitled to their opinion but jesus ck, every post I have read of yours over the past 3 weeks seems to be very anti-donegal!
Yes they have had a few lucky breaks, but theres no need to continue bringing them up in every post! Donegal are not the first and definetly wont be the last to be accused of cynical fouling. I think Kildare in extra time today proved they are not the only team that can be accused of it!
And I find it almost laughable that you casually confirm to us all how McGuinness feels about Donegals attacking ability! He has repeatedly stated how he feels Donegals forward line is one of the best in the country.
This Donegal team, and many that have passed before it have been praised as great "natural" footballers who have the skills and talents to match anyone, but just didnt try hard enough. Now that they are finally working hard with every player tracking back to defend- but also running forward to attack, they are being classed as a team with no ability that just scrap out the matches.
I think this team deserves a few lucky breaks!
Well, that's the Kildare lads for you.
That said, my friend reckons that if they did not have a perfectly good goal disallowed (which would have given them a 6 point lead midway through the 2nd half) they would have pushed on and won handy enough.
Hard to argue with him.
Well played Donegal! when it went to 0-13 to 1-8 I thought it was game over. Donegal teams in the past would have dropped the heads. Not this bunch though, What a sub Christy Toye turned out to be.
Hard luck for Kildare (again). How many times have they had poor refereeing decisions given against them ? I think maybe Geezer has taken them as far as he can. It must be very frustrating losing games in that manner. Psychologically it must be very hard to come back year after year with 'what might have beens' preying on your mind :-[.
I pity the poor ref, imo he was definitely trying for a draw and a big pat on the back from the GAA. Kildare should have been given the free with 2 minutes to go to put them two points up. They didn't get it and Donegal go on to equalize......the winning point must have come as a bit of a shocker to the ref....what a score it has to be said. I thought it was a cracking game with some mighty hard hits going in. Reminded me of the dubs v's meath epic saga when men were men.....
Can't see my fellow county men hitting as hard tomorrow.
Mayo men are lovers, not fighters.
Well done to donegal but anyone (obviously apart from Down supporters) has to feel for McGeeney. Shocking refereeing decisions. To be fair, both teams are a long way short of an All Ireland. McGuinness has done a fine job with Donegal considering their last performance in last year's championship against Armagh.
There was to be 3 mins of injury time to be played at the end of the first half yet Karl Lacey (i think) scored 30 seconds after this time was up. Again Donegal scored after injury time had lapsed at the end of the first half of extra time. How did the ref get 2 mins of injury time for the second half of extra time (this is the equivalent of 7 mins injury time in a normal half).
The ref's performance hovered between very good to excellent. Coldrick got the injury time spot on.
Some fans bitch and moan like a bunch of old hags.
Quote from: James91 on July 31, 2011, 12:56:40 AM
Quote from: ck on July 31, 2011, 12:16:34 AM
I know this is a discussion board and everyone is entitled to their opinion but jesus ck, every post I have read of yours over the past 3 weeks seems to be very anti-donegal!
Yes they have had a few lucky breaks, but theres no need to continue bringing them up in every post! Donegal are not the first and definetly wont be the last to be accused of cynical fouling. I think Kildare in extra time today proved they are not the only team that can be accused of it!
And I find it almost laughable that you casually confirm to us all how McGuinness feels about Donegals attacking ability! He has repeatedly stated how he feels Donegals forward line is one of the best in the country.
This Donegal team, and many that have passed before it have been praised as great "natural" footballers who have the skills and talents to match anyone, but just didnt try hard enough. Now that they are finally working hard with every player tracking back to defend- but also running forward to attack, they are being classed as a team with no ability that just scrap out the matches.
I think this team deserves a few lucky breaks!
Fair points raised James. I'm certainly not anti-Donegal and have praised and criticised them in equal measure on various issues. Also I have never mentioned the penalties or disallowed goal before so I can hardly be accused of "bringing them up in every post" The fact of the matter is that Donegal are the toughest team in Ireland to beat right now - much of the reason for this is through negative cynical play. But its not every team can play it, you work harder, be fitter and hungrier than the opposition, and Donegal certainly are that at the moment. There is much more to it than tactics. Credit to Donegal for setting themselves up to become a formidable opposition despite having some very limited players.
Quote from: ck on July 31, 2011, 12:16:34 AM
Negative tactics aside - Donegal have been damn lucky this year with big decisions, penalties not given against them, panalties given to them and a clear goal disallowed... can it continue?
Donegal deserve credit for raw hunger and work rate. McGuinness knows they are not good enough to compete in open attacking terms so has given them a game plan that is working. Awful to watch but there is not a team left in the c'ship who will want to play them now.
There is one thing that really bugs me though and that is the fact that Donegal have perfected the strategic foul. They foul consistantly in certain areas of the pitch to kill the pace and break attacks, allowing them to get back in numbers to swarm defence and gain turnovers. You will notice that different players do the fouling (never same player twice in a row) so as to avoid yellow cards. When referees start to act against cynical fouling then the game will be less defensive and Donegals game plan will drastically reduce its impact.
We were obviously very lucky with the goal today and, probably, not conceding a penalty against Derry, but that's it. I doubt if the Derry penalty would have made a difference the way that game was going anyway. Today's decision, leaving us six points down, would obviously have left us with a big mountain to climb. Would that have been too much? Who knows? We looked dead and buried in extra time and came back to win. We looked in big trouble when five points down to Tyrone, but reeled them back in.
To be fair the quality of attacking in this game left a lot to be desired... these 2 teams and Mayo would be the poorest attackers left atm.
Donegal were also extremely lucky with the goal incident. I was disgusted with the first half but what followed was probably the most intense 55 mins of football I have ever seen. The effort, commitment, defending and just honest to goodness heart shown by the 2 teams was amazing and for that both teams must be commended.
Karl Lacey put in one of the best individual performances I have ever seen or am ever likely to see. It looked like he could barely walk at the end. Fair play.
Having said that I still stand by my gym monkeys theory... Should either of these win the All Ireland our games are fcuked. When up against serious opposition at the business end of the Championship Donegal don't have the footballers to handle it.
Quote from: screenexile on July 31, 2011, 03:40:39 AM
To be fair the quality of attacking in this game left a lot to be desired... these 2 teams and Mayo would be the poorest attackers left atm.
Donegal were also extremely lucky with the goal incident. I was disgusted with the first half but what followed was probably the most intense 55 mins of football I have ever seen. The effort, commitment, defending and just honest to goodness heart shown by the 2 teams was amazing and for that both teams must be commended.
Karl Lacey put in one of the best individual performances I have ever seen or am ever likely to see. It looked like he could barely walk at the end. Fair play.
Having said that I still stand by my gym monkeys theory... Should either of these win the All Ireland our games are fcuked. When up against serious opposition at the business end of the Championship Donegal don't have the footballers to handle it.
Lacey should be a cert for a third All Star after that game. He'd be the first Donegal man to accomplish that.
I agree that we're unlikely to be able to handle Cork or Kerry, assuming we grind our way past Tyrone/Dublin. But we'll worry about that if we make it. Don't agree that our games will be fucked though. Tyrone/Armagh both won All Irelands using blanket defense and while they introduced the tactic, the game hasn't suffered. The difference in their cases was that their attacking units were further advanced and more potent than ours currently is, or perhaps ever will be.
Well I thought it was fantastic entertainment, I really enjoyed it.
Exactly like Geraghty v Kildare and Muldoon v Kildare, O'Connor's goal should have stood. From the TV, it looked like it was the umpire's decision. Overall I thought Coldrick had a very good game.
Donegal should certainly have won it in normal time. Had chances to go 4 and 5 points up, then stopped playing - but kudos to Kildare for clawing their way back and grabbing the draw.
At that stage I was confident Kildare would win out, and I was sure it was game over when they went 3 points up. But terrific fightback by Donegal, and the winning point was sensational - worthy of winning any game.
Hard luck to Kildare. If I was them I'd do all I could to keep McGeeney - but if he does walk away I'd guess Jason Ryan's door will be knocked at
The "goal" - even in slow motion a borderline decision. But if his foot was over the line as the ball was in flight - and it seemed to be - it is a square ball.
The cynical fouling - I think you'll find Kildare well ahead on that count, especially when they thought they had it in the bag in extra time. We could take a leaf out of rugby where the referee can warn the captain that for persistent fouling the next offender will see red.
The no-free near the end - no different to any number of decisions in any gaelic football game, this one included, so many can go either way.
And I thought the referee was very good.
MOM - in my opinion the Donegal full back McGee gave a real tour-de-force from start to finish.
He didn't even get a mention from the RTE panel & commentators who displayed a naked pro-Kildare bias throughout.
Fitness now rules football and we will only get football back when we restrict the handpass.
McGee diffently had a horse of a game I thought as well. Averaged enough player, but has been playing well so far. It's a shame when people pay their hard earned money to see games lost on a ref. Kildare diff should have had a free before the winner was scored by Cassidy. Was he afraid to give it? Certainly looked like it. As for the sq ball Leo regarding of weather he had his foot in the sq of not (which I don't think he had) once the ball came off the upright it was back in play and therefore the goal should have stood, end off.
The gave muldoon's sq ball the week before, but the clearest sq ball from last weeks games was Joe McMahons against Armagh and it didn't even get a mention oh sorry it didn't from that nob Tony Davis. Burns was right when he said on tv last night, once the ball leaves the foot of the kicker if the sq is clear its all to fight for.
Hitting the post is irrelevant - other than indicating the ball was in the square a long time.
The cynical fouling comments are nonsense IMO. There's hardly a field game in the world were tactical fouling does not play some element of defensive tactics. Most GAA teams fall into it when they are defending a lead - and its no more cynical than most fouls at most times! The Kildare fouls at the end were panic fouls rather than cynical fouls (exactly like Donegals fouls at the end of normal time - and you can undoubtedly pick out similar cases in other games).
Both teams defended very well without fouling. When the panic fouling started all it did was help the opposition back into the game, so I don't understand the moaning at all.
Quote from: screenexile on July 31, 2011, 03:40:39 AM
To be fair the quality of attacking in this game left a lot to be desired... these 2 teams and Mayo would be the poorest attackers left atm.
Donegal were also extremely lucky with the goal incident. I was disgusted with the first half but what followed was probably the most intense 55 mins of football I have ever seen. The effort, commitment, defending and just honest to goodness heart shown by the 2 teams was amazing and for that both teams must be commended.
Karl Lacey put in one of the best individual performances I have ever seen or am ever likely to see. It looked like he could barely walk at the end. Fair play.
Having said that I still stand by my gym monkeys theory... Should either of these win the All Ireland our games are fcuked. When up against serious opposition at the business end of the Championship Donegal don't have the footballers to handle it.
i wouldnt be so sure, and i wouldnt be backing against them
Kevin Cassidy the new Jody Devine.
Dreamt I drove my car into a canal last night ???
Who ended up getting man of the match for the game ?
I think Kildare were slightly the fitter team and made hay when Donegal were floundering in the last 10 minutes of normal time.
Also in ET, some Donegal players had hit another brick wall while Kildare racked up a lead.
Donegal will be hard to beat if they can build a bit more on that resolve.
Coldrick made a good call according to the rules with the disallowed goal, unfair or hard done-by doesn't come into it.
Quote from: Dinny Breen link=topic=19885.msg996367#msg996367
Proud as always to be a Lily.
/quote]
To be half Lilly ?
Kildare don't help themselves - missed a few handy frees during the match. They couldn't half be doing with a couple of extra forwards who can kick a point. They won't catch Cork, Kerry, Tyrone (even Dublin) unless they can find a few more natural forwards.
Karl Lacey was unreal, in fact that whole Donegal half back line are playing well. Thompson doesn't get a lot of headlines but he gets on the ball a lot.
Quote from: ck on July 31, 2011, 12:16:34 AM
Negative tactics aside - Donegal have been damn lucky this year with big decisions, penalties not given against them, panalties given to them and a clear goal disallowed... can it continue?
Donegal deserve credit for raw hunger and work rate. McGuinness knows they are not good enough to compete in open attacking terms so has given them a game plan that is working. Awful to watch but there is not a team left in the c'ship who will want to play them now.
There is one thing that really bugs me though and that is the fact that Donegal have perfected the strategic foul. They foul consistantly in certain areas of the pitch to kill the pace and break attacks, allowing them to get back in numbers to swarm defence and gain turnovers. You will notice that different players do the fouling (never same player twice in a row) so as to avoid yellow cards. When referees start to act against cynical fouling then the game will be less defensive and Donegals game plan will drastically reduce its impact.
for every time you have mentioned 'Donegal' in the above, you could and should have written ' Donegal and Kildare'.
I'd also not fully accept that both managers dont think they are good enough. Just they know that a defensive approach wins games in most major contact ball sports including gaelic football.
I really enjoyed that day out yesterday, and the intensity and sheer willpower both teams in the third match displayed was unreal. I felt Kildare were probably the more dominant in terms of battles around the field, but they did struggle against Donegal's defensive power. Especially any time when they dithered a little in getting the ball in. Kavanagh was disappointing, and I thought Geezer made a mistake bringing off O'Connor, or at least not replacing him with Sweeney immediately. That negated the Kildare option on the longer ball, which they were mixing well with the more measured buildup in the first half I thought.
Felt really sorry for Johnny Doyle, just didn't happen for him, and he looked like he was hampered all day, he got a bad auld dunt from the throw in that looked like a dead leg, and he wasn't really right. To lose by 1 point and for that game to be the first in 53 games that you don't score must be sickening.
Darren Flynn, Hugh McGrillen and Mick Foley were great, as was Morgan O'Flaherty at centre back. Kildare's tactic of attacking the blanket defence with normal numbers, and leaving O'Flaherty and a few others to mind the house in case of turnovers worked very well I thought.
For Donegal, Lacey was brilliant, as was McGee. Some substitution by Jimmy to bring on Christy Toye as well :)
We were sitting down near that goal that Tomás O'Connor's goal was disallowed, and we felt it wasn't a square ball, but it was fairly obvious the umpires were far from convinced. They dithered a bit, and I think the green flag lad only put it up because the ball crossed the line basically. As soon as Coldrick came in, he seemed very anxious to wave it off. (The umpire I mean).
I thought Kildare and Donegal showed great old fashioned guts as well, slugging it out like two heavyweights. Both of them coming back from leads that looked huge in the context of a tight game. When Donegal scored the goal, I thought Kildare were dead, but they came back brilliantly. When Kildare went 3 points up in the second period of extra time, I thought Donegal were dead, but they did likewise.
I do feel that Kildare tied up (whether it was a physical tiredness or a mental tiredness I can't say - either would have been excusable) when they went 3 points up. They looked like they were going into their shell and were using the tactical foul to give themselves breathing space. They didn't reckon on Michael Murphy kicking 50 metre frees though, especially after Johnny Doyle's hand trip on the Donegal lad outside the 45.
All that said, I felt the game was finally decided on an incident when Kildare were a point up with about 1 minute left of extra time. Donegal had gone from a position where they couldn't win a raffle in the middle of the field to a position where they were winning everything, in one of those ebbs and flows that happened. Kildare managed to win one ball, brought it out the field and a decent ball went into Alan Smith about 13 metres out. If he had managed to even kick the ball wide, I think Kildare might have held on. Instead he was dispossessed too easily, the ball was worked up the Donegal right, the Kildare forwards couldn't track back and Donegal equalised.
I wasn't surprised when Cassidy kicked the winner after that, because the equaliser felt like the real body blow.
It wasn't an open game, but I thought it was fascinating, and when you see the Donegal fans staying back to give Kildare a standing ovation coming off, you know it's been a hell of a battle.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 10:14:00 PM
I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times. I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was. Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.
Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side. It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further. That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty. They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.
Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.
Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.
Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.
As it should have.
Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.
A game takes on a different dynamic once a score is given, unless the ref was going to blow for full-time straight after the 'goal'? Donegal scored 4 points to win the game in extra time after being level at FT and down 3 in ET, so they were obviously well capable of clawing back a lead. To say Kildare would have won if their 'goal' had counted is an exercise in arithmetic that doesn't take into account the plethora of things that can happen in any game and once again it's the sort of short-sighted(shite) analysis that I'd expect from yourself.
I also doubt you were at the game.
With respect how would you know if I was at the game? :D. Have you got a webcam on me?
An imbecile could say Donegal werent coming back from a 6 point deficit. At that juncture of the game Donegal's efforts at scoring resembled watching the Faroe Islands trying to score at soccer.
The disallowed goal woke Donegal up for some proverbial reason and got Mc Guinness to actually send on a few forwards like Christy Toye ( a class player) in deference to some of the others we had ahead of him. Donegal decided to commit to attack for once.
The system was again shown up in the final 10 minutes of normal time when Donegal committed to defence- didnt win one breaking ball for the entire period and against a more competent forward line would have lost the game.
this system doesnt work and Donegal play their best football when in attack mode. Its depressing to watch a team with a lot of very good footballers play in such a negative fashion.
You'd have to admire lads like Lacey, Cassidy and Magee for theri defensive qualities though- they were brilliant yesterday and won them the game.
QuoteFrom GAA.ie Rules
2.4 (i) A maximum of five substitutions shall be
allowed during the playing of Normal Time.
A maximum of three Substitutions shall be
allowed during the playing of Extra Time.
Temporary Substitutions are also permitted]during the playing of both Normal Time and extra Time, as provided for in Rule 1.5(b) Rules
of Control - Injuries: Blood
According to the Kildare forum and boards.ie Donegal used 5 subs in ET - can anyone clarify this?
Indy, Christy Toye came on for Colm McFadden. That wasn't exactly a statement of intent, just a reflection that Hughie McGrillen had McFadden in his pocket. (Although McFadden had ironically just kicked a great point).
an enthralling game and while the purists might not like it, this was a fantastic display of how to defend.
not just the swarmed masses behind the ball, but the art of tackling, stripping the ball, a few blocks but
most of all defenders getting out in front of their man and reading the game.
I always thought before yesterday that Karl Lacey would be motm. He is in sensational form and is the key man in their
system if not team. He was equally aided byt the fantastic Neil and then Eamonn mcgee. Kevin Cassidy got better as the game wore on.
Kildare had men like McGrillen and the imo out of position Morgan oFlaherty vying for motm. Flynn was the outstanding player in the middle of the field yesterday. Wing half forwards OCallaghan and Oneill again outstanding.All all star nominees.
Doyle was obv hurt early on and with Murphy inj and mcfadden out of sorts we were robbed of the game's star forwards and thus the last hope of some scoring fireworks. Still as the film gladiator said ' are you not entertained' ?
Credit to both camps for their defensive work.
Its a lot harder to play as a defensive team AND have a potent attack.
Interesting to see two defensive system teams struggle against each other.
IMO Donegal didnt play as they can yesterday , partially because they werent let and they were not used to coming up against a team with similar system as themselves !
Kildare have faced a Dublin blnket defence and that taught them a lot .Kildare should have won this game yesterday .The notion after last week that kildare can score from distance was proven to be a long way off the mark. Derry dont mark tightly and even Mayo (sorry lads) would score a bagful in croker against us with such slack marking.
Maybe Donegal lacked croker experience but if they misfire again, they will be not win.
Also interesting to see both teams take the foot off the gas when up by three points, firstly Donegal 10 mins near the end, missing a couple of easy chances to score points and thus kill off the game, then it was Kildare in ET who had the game at their mercy and seemed to freeze rather than kill it off. this killer instinct is what makes champions- Tyrone, Kerry and on occasion Cork posess this.
McGuinness brings research and tactical thinking to the game that goes above and beyond what any person who has dabbled with management would want to have to devote to the game and I get a pain in the cranium contemplating the amount of work to replicate this.
Still football is a simple game - there has to be a better way ? Maybe not unless you have the squad of Cork at your disposal.
Kieran mcgeeney has done wonderful things for kildare. Brought them out of a shell and comfort zone,changes structures in the county squad setup. For years Kildare along with Cavan were the richest county board in the country - not because of any sheikh - but because (unlike Cavan) they just wouldnt spend a penny.
However, this is mcGeeneys first managerial job. He is still feeling and finding his way. No amount of other insightful rookies he
might bring in with him will be able to bring this up and on any further imo. He could 'get lucky' but McGeeney has outdone himself, but the kildare team need an experienced man, a tactician with a bit more flair to come in- not change the defensive structure too much, but enable a more potent attack. Glen Ryan or indeed Jason Ryan (imo the latter) would be the best men for this. Kildare have men who can score , but Kildare are not setup (apart from when playing a slack marking Derry for example) to allow these men to score under the current system.
Both teams can follow the Tyrone model though. They were ultra defensive in Hartes first years , but expanded their game to become more balanced and provide a more attacking threat thereafter- and not solely reliant on frees.
Two up and coming teams, though as I say, I fear that McGeeney needs a few more years elsewhere to really deliver on potential.
A Jason Ryan for example may be the final piece of the equation that Kildare need in order to compete for Sam.
McGuinness has coached previously in club and county u21 and can draw on this experience , they should be contenders for the next few seasons.
It might be beyond them this year, but if Murphy gets fit - dont rule them out.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 31, 2011, 11:34:55 AM
QuoteFrom GAA.ie Rules
2.4 (i) A maximum of five substitutions shall be
allowed during the playing of Normal Time.
A maximum of three Substitutions shall be
allowed during the playing of Extra Time.
Temporary Substitutions are also permitted]during the playing of both Normal Time and extra Time, as provided for in Rule 1.5(b) Rules
of Control - Injuries: Blood
According to the Kildare forum and boards.ie Donegal used 5 subs in ET - can anyone clarify this?
This again Dinny? :D
I was disappointed in the ref yesterday - he had a superb season last year , but has been a bit under par so far this year.
I know I harp on about hawkeye and video technology. The more games go on this season, the more I believe this is required.
OK I didnt have the best view of the Kildare square ball goal, but I thought the goal should have stood but yes, there is the question whether OConors foot was in the square. Video replays would answer this continual problem. Donegal and kildare both fouled cynically and if the ref had pulled this up early on, the game would have been a more flowing contest as yellow carded players would know thy couldnt pull or third man tackle/block a run all through the game as it then turned out.
Not trying to be hard on Donegal, but there were two scores they received that should have been frees out plus a free could have been awarded in the last kildare attack before Cassidy's winning score - the ref had been giving them all day long - an easier free was given to Kildare to equalise just before full time.
On the other hand that full time equaliser and a few other scores were gifted to kildare when they were not deserved. Kildare's first point came from in a john doyle free going wide and OConnor illegally going outside the playing area to jump back in and fist the ball to Flaherty to score.Yes ref anorak time, but that point should not have stood. Later illegal scores from a free (after Sweeney played the ball on the ground)
and that end of FT equaliser to me make it actually even - both teams ended up with an equal amount of incorrect scores for/against them that balances out equally.
That said, Kildare's general play for mean should have meant they won the game. It shows that posession doesnt always count for feck all in sport.
Credit to Donegal for staying in the game while being completely wiped out - though their giving the ball away so cheaply must worry McGuinness.
The ref didnt mean to make these mistakes but a second ref/video ref should be implemented to assist him and to give teams the fairest possible chance - but the ref and refs of all future games MUST address cynical fouling (not to mention the bit of gamesmanship and diving done by both teams as well as the feigning inj to eat up time) if we are to eradicate this systematic persistent cynical fouling out of the game.
Only asking the question, would be a serious advantage.
Ye feckers got away with it the last time, should have brought ye to the high court ;)
Only one man can sum up how the rest of us Kildare folk are feeling this morning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOG9C9oaHN0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOG9C9oaHN0)
:'(
Agree with you AZ - it made for great viewing.
And I see the parallels drawn to the Armagh Tyrone match in 05 - I have never seen two teams that wanted to win so much since then.
There are a lot of comments about negative tactics and crap football; I reckon that this is down to the amazing display of defensive work and tackling shown by both teams. No player had a second to settle on the ball. And how many times did we see the defender out in front of the forward winning the ball clean? Brilliant.
There was a very low free rate inside scoring areas for both teams which requires a tremendous discipline.
And all this crack about football and how it should be played. Down apparently aspire to that and look at what happened them last week. A nice team playing nice football.
The first port of call of any team is work rate, and willlingness to win - that was there in spades last night.
The ref did get some things wrong, but in a match of that intensity, I thought he performed very well.
Especially, one time, when McHugh fouled in midfield and there was a break on for Kildare. He let the free be taken so that Kildare still had the advantage, and called McHugh back for a yellow card after the attack had ended.
Excellent refereeing, which I would like to see instilled in all games, and which would minimise tactical fouling.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 31, 2011, 11:34:55 AM
QuoteFrom GAA.ie Rules
2.4 (i) A maximum of five substitutions shall be
allowed during the playing of Normal Time.
A maximum of three Substitutions shall be
allowed during the playing of Extra Time.
Temporary Substitutions are also permitted]during the playing of both Normal Time and extra Time, as provided for in Rule 1.5(b) Rules
of Control - Injuries: Blood
According to the Kildare forum and boards.ie Donegal used 5 subs in ET - can anyone clarify this?
according to the paper you are correct
Donegal used 5 subs in ET - you are only permitted to use 3 , I dont recall any of them being blood subs.
Rafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min
Gallagher came on for rafferty 80th min
Molloy came on for McFadden 82 min
McBrearth came on for Bradley 88 min
is there an objection coming from Kildare....?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 31, 2011, 11:36:03 AM
an enthralling game and while the purists might not like it, this was a fantastic display of how to defend.
not just the swarmed masses behind the ball, but the art of tackling, stripping the ball, a few blocks but
most of all defenders getting out in front of their man and reading the game.
I always thought before yesterday that Karl Lacey would be motm. He is in sensational form and is the key man in their
system if not team. He was equally aided byt the fantastic Neil and then Eamonn mcgee. Kevin Cassidy got better as the game wore on.
Kildare had men like McGrillen and the imo out of position Morgan oFlaherty vying for motm. Flynn was the outstanding player in the middle of the field yesterday. Wing half forwards OCallaghan and Oneill again outstanding.All all star nominees.
Doyle was obv hurt early on and with Murphy inj and mcfadden out of sorts we were robbed of the game's star forwards and thus the last hope of some scoring fireworks. Still as the film gladiator said ' are you not entertained' ?
Credit to both camps for their defensive work.
Its a lot harder to play as a defensive team AND have a potent attack.
Interesting to see two defensive system teams struggle against each other.
IMO Donegal didnt play as they can yesterday , partially because they werent let and they were not used to coming up against a team with similar system as themselves !
Kildare have faced a Dublin blnket defence and that taught them a lot .Kildare should have won this game yesterday .The notion after last week that kildare can score from distance was proven to be a long way off the mark. Derry dont mark tightly and even Mayo (sorry lads) would score a bagful in croker against us with such slack marking.
Maybe Donegal lacked croker experience but if they misfire again, they will be not win.
Also interesting to see both teams take the foot off the gas when up by three points, firstly Donegal 10 mins near the end, missing a couple of easy chances to score points and thus kill off the game, then it was Kildare in ET who had the game at their mercy and seemed to freeze rather than kill it off. this killer instinct is what makes champions- Tyrone, Kerry and on occasion Cork posess this.
McGuinness brings research and tactical thinking to the game that goes above and beyond what any person who has dabbled with management would want to have to devote to the game and I get a pain in the cranium contemplating the amount of work to replicate this.
Still football is a simple game - there has to be a better way ? Maybe not unless you have the squad of Cork at your disposal.
Kieran mcgeeney has done wonderful things for kildare. Brought them out of a shell and comfort zone,changes structures in the county squad setup. For years Kildare along with Cavan were the richest county board in the country - not because of any sheikh - but because (unlike Cavan) they just wouldnt spend a penny.
However, this is mcGeeneys first managerial job. He is still feeling and finding his way. No amount of other insightful rookies he
might bring in with him will be able to bring this up and on any further imo. He could 'get lucky' but McGeeney has outdone himself, but the kildare team need an experienced man, a tactician with a bit more flair to come in- not change the defensive structure too much, but enable a more potent attack. Glen Ryan or indeed Jason Ryan (imo the latter) would be the best men for this. Kildare have men who can score , but Kildare are not setup (apart from when playing a slack marking Derry for example) to allow these men to score under the current system.
Both teams can follow the Tyrone model though. They were ultra defensive in Hartes first years , but expanded their game to become more balanced and provide a more attacking threat thereafter- and not solely reliant on frees.
Two up and coming teams, though as I say, I fear that McGeeney needs a few more years elsewhere to really deliver on potential.
A Jason Ryan for example may be the final piece of the equation that Kildare need in order to compete for Sam.
McGuinness has coached previously in club and county u21 and can draw on this experience , they should be contenders for the next few seasons.
It might be beyond them this year, but if Murphy gets fit - dont rule them out.
Spot on Lynchbhoy - first time in a while that we agree. Too early for managerial discussions despite the sense spoken.
QuoteRafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min
They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 31, 2011, 11:47:33 AM
QuoteRafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min
They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.
sorry meant to clarify - during game
Murphy and E McGee on for McBrearty and mcgrath 27th min
McElhinney for Gallagher HT
Molloy for Hegarty 41st min
Toye for McFadden 58
thats 5 subs in normal time
the subs used prior to ET would be classed as substitutions availed of for the extra period.
so Donegal only had one sub available to them in ET thereafter.
The cute hoors got away with it as they did it at the break.
The officials are at fault, and compounds a bad day at the office for them !
unless of course I am wrong and you are indeed allowed 10 substitutions and subs during interval between FT and ET are allowed en masse. I dont think so though....
Quoteis there an objection coming from Kildare....?
that would be fun!
I wouldn't mind but poor Rafferty had an absolute stinker for the ten minutes he was on!
If Kildare do object (assuming Lynchboy's analysis is correct), what's the outcome should they win? Replay or forfeiture?
Is extra time not deemed a new game? If you have had a man sent off in normal time, you start ET with 15? Therefore you are alowed to bring on 3 subs.
Quote from: J70 on July 31, 2011, 12:12:08 PM
I wouldn't mind but poor Rafferty had an absolute stinker for the ten minutes he was on!
If Kildare do object (assuming Lynchboy's analysis is correct), what's the outcome should they win? Replay or forfeiture?
he did which is a pity as he was great earlier on in the season.
if Kildare object and it is upheld then its a replay at worst for Donegal.
~Denn - thats the part I am trying to figure out. must go upstairs and dig out the rule book.
It is classed as a new game, and a team can bring a man on to get back to 15 men. But I just dont know if this can be done by replacing men and that this does or does not count as substitutions.
initially I'd have thought it did, but that you can bring your team back to 15, this would be a point argued by Donegal , as it is classed as a new game.
this game is now providing more entertainment after the final whistle !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 31, 2011, 11:57:55 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 31, 2011, 11:47:33 AM
QuoteRafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min
They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.
sorry meant to clarify - during game
Murphy and E McGee on for McBrearty and mcgrath 27th min
McElhinney for Gallagher HT
Molloy for Hegarty 41st min
Toye for McFadden 58
thats 5 subs in normal time
the subs used prior to ET would be classed as substitutions availed of for the extra period.
so Donegal only had one sub available to them in ET thereafter.
The cute hoors got away with it as they did it at the break.
The officials are at fault, and compounds a bad day at the office for them !
unless of course I am wrong and you are indeed allowed 10 substitutions and subs during interval between FT and ET are allowed en masse. I dont think so though....
The changes made between the end of normal time and extra-time do not count. If you had a squad of 30 you could start a totally different 15 to begin extra-time and you could still make three subs during it.
2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.
(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players on
the List submitted to the Referee prior to the
game, except as provided for in (d) below, may
start Extra Time.
(c) The Referee shall be given a List of the 15
players starting Extra Time, or a Note clearly
indicating the changes made from that of
the finishing team in Normal Time. This List/
Note may be in single form but shall otherwise
comply with the provisions of Rule 2.5 - List of
Players.
(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.
(e) Substitutions/Temporary Substitutions shall
be allowed during the playing of Extra Time as
outlined in Rule 2.4(ii) and (iii).
(f) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued in Normal Time
shall carry over into Extra Time
First things first, heartiest congratulations to Donegal. Your style of football isn't the easiest on the eye but it's working for you. The Donegal support yesterday was a credit to the county.
I can't be arsed reading through the whole thread here but I'm sure Tomás Connor's 'goal' is discussed ad nauseum. Yet another Kildare match hinged on a square ball decision so what's new there? Some have gone with us and more have gone against us (Cussen '08, Coulter '10) but there isn't much point in cribbing about it. We lost that match in the first half of normal time. We seemed totally dominant yet we only went in two points up. We probably should have been six up and it would have forced Donegal to open up. Extra time was heartbreaking but it would be grossly unfair to say that Kildare lacked the mentality to close out the game. They were simply dead on their feet during the closing stages with the four games in consecutive weeks catching up with them.
Without naming names, it didn't happen for certain Kildare players yesterday which makes it all the more disappointing. I'm sure The Sunday Game will probably twist the knife tonight with their 'lack of natural forwards' thesis but that doesn't bother me in the slightest. Having followed this Kildare team up and down the country, I know where we are lacking. What them players don't lack though is honesty and heart and for that they deserve great plaudits.
I wasn't hopeful of a good run this year given all the injuries so there are reasons to be optimistic for the future. Hopefully Dermot Earley and Peter Kelly will be back next year. A full league campaign would also do wonders for the likes of Mikey Conway and Daryl Flynn who were both superb yesterday. Mikey has a touch of class and a level of skill that few Kildare players possess and Flynner is simply a warrior. I don't know how he kept going yesterday because that must be only his sixth or seventh match in twelve months. From 1 to 9 we are probably as good as there is in the country but we could do with one or two of the younger lads coming through up front to add a bit more creativity rather than functionality. Whether someone like Dowling, Fogarty or Mulhall are capable of really stepping up, remains to be seen. Without wishing to sound too pesimistic, I suspect Kildare's great white forward hope is plying his trade for Collingwood in Australia rather than with JTB.
You have to feel for Kildare this morning they were hard done by. Down got the rub of the green against them last year with Benny's goal and then to have perfectly good goal disallowed yesterday must be shattering. Depending on the character of the team and manager events like yesterday can have one of two outcomes. Kildare will disappear or come back stronger next year. I think the later will happen if McGeeney stays on board.
Donegal deserve massive credit for the character they showed yesterday there were a few times where they looked dead and buried but kept coming back for more. Kevin Cassidy epitomised their performance, he hit a bad wide in the dying stages but was big enough to stand up and take the winner when the chance came along. Maybe he was thinking time was up and there would be a replay if he missed so long as he put the ball dead but it still took some balls.
Very enjoyable game even though the football wasn't that great. Donegal will be hard beat by whoever they play. Of all the teams left I think Cork would give them the biggest problems due to their physical size and strength. Donegal should have no fear of any of the other teams.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 31, 2011, 11:33:42 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 10:14:00 PM
I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times. I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was. Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.
Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side. It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further. That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty. They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.
Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.
Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.
Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.
As it should have.
Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.
A game takes on a different dynamic once a score is given, unless the ref was going to blow for full-time straight after the 'goal'? Donegal scored 4 points to win the game in extra time after being level at FT and down 3 in ET, so they were obviously well capable of clawing back a lead. To say Kildare would have won if their 'goal' had counted is an exercise in arithmetic that doesn't take into account the plethora of things that can happen in any game and once again it's the sort of short-sighted(shite) analysis that I'd expect from yourself.
I also doubt you were at the game.
With respect how would you know if I was at the game? :D. Have you got a webcam on me?
An imbecile could say Donegal werent coming back from a 6 point deficit. At that juncture of the game Donegal's efforts at scoring resembled watching the Faroe Islands trying to score at soccer.
The disallowed goal woke Donegal up for some proverbial reason and got Mc Guinness to actually send on a few forwards like Christy Toye ( a class player) in deference to some of the others we had ahead of him. Donegal decided to commit to attack for once.
The system was again shown up in the final 10 minutes of normal time when Donegal committed to defence- didnt win one breaking ball for the entire period and against a more competent forward line would have lost the game.
this system doesnt work and Donegal play their best football when in attack mode. Its depressing to watch a team with a lot of very good footballers play in such a negative fashion.
You'd have to admire lads like Lacey, Cassidy and Magee for theri defensive qualities though- they were brilliant yesterday and won them the game.
Mainly because I really think you are an absolute chancer who is full of shite. You also posted on here at 6.36pm with no mobile icon, so that too.
How you can say 'the system doesn't work' is absolutely comical - take a look at where Donegal were last year and were they are now and think about what you've actually written. You also seem to miss that this is the start of something not the end product - a bit like the Dubs last year (your misguided and misjudged ramblings on Dublin last year still bring a smile to my face).Your 'analysis' is regularly awful, I've rarely read anything you have written and agreed with or thought it mildly insightful. Another poster who says what he sees without putting much thought into it or looking at the bigger picture.
Quote from: Craigyhill Terror on July 31, 2011, 12:28:03 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 31, 2011, 11:57:55 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 31, 2011, 11:47:33 AM
QuoteRafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min
They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.
sorry meant to clarify - during game
Murphy and E McGee on for McBrearty and mcgrath 27th min
McElhinney for Gallagher HT
Molloy for Hegarty 41st min
Toye for McFadden 58
thats 5 subs in normal time
the subs used prior to ET would be classed as substitutions availed of for the extra period.
so Donegal only had one sub available to them in ET thereafter.
The cute hoors got away with it as they did it at the break.
The officials are at fault, and compounds a bad day at the office for them !
unless of course I am wrong and you are indeed allowed 10 substitutions and subs during interval between FT and ET are allowed en masse. I dont think so though....
The changes made between the end of normal time and extra-time do not count. If you had a squad of 30 you could start a totally different 15 to begin extra-time and you could still make three subs during it.
2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.
(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players on
the List submitted to the Referee prior to the
game, except as provided for in (d) below, may
start Extra Time.
(c) The Referee shall be given a List of the 15
players starting Extra Time, or a Note clearly
indicating the changes made from that of
the finishing team in Normal Time. This List/
Note may be in single form but shall otherwise
comply with the provisions of Rule 2.5 - List of
Players.
(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.
(e) Substitutions/Temporary Substitutions shall
be allowed during the playing of Extra Time as
outlined in Rule 2.4(ii) and (iii).
(f) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued in Normal Time
shall carry over into Extra Time
Well that seems to clear that up! Thanks! :)
If there is any justce, McGrillen No. 2 or 4 on the All St5ar team.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2011, 12:38:57 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 31, 2011, 11:33:42 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 10:14:00 PM
I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times. I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was. Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.
Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side. It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further. That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty. They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.
Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.
Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.
Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.
As it should have.
Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.
A game takes on a different dynamic once a score is given, unless the ref was going to blow for full-time straight after the 'goal'? Donegal scored 4 points to win the game in extra time after being level at FT and down 3 in ET, so they were obviously well capable of clawing back a lead. To say Kildare would have won if their 'goal' had counted is an exercise in arithmetic that doesn't take into account the plethora of things that can happen in any game and once again it's the sort of short-sighted(shite) analysis that I'd expect from yourself.
I also doubt you were at the game.
With respect how would you know if I was at the game? :D. Have you got a webcam on me?
An imbecile could say Donegal werent coming back from a 6 point deficit. At that juncture of the game Donegal's efforts at scoring resembled watching the Faroe Islands trying to score at soccer.
The disallowed goal woke Donegal up for some proverbial reason and got Mc Guinness to actually send on a few forwards like Christy Toye ( a class player) in deference to some of the others we had ahead of him. Donegal decided to commit to attack for once.
The system was again shown up in the final 10 minutes of normal time when Donegal committed to defence- didnt win one breaking ball for the entire period and against a more competent forward line would have lost the game.
this system doesnt work and Donegal play their best football when in attack mode. Its depressing to watch a team with a lot of very good footballers play in such a negative fashion.
You'd have to admire lads like Lacey, Cassidy and Magee for theri defensive qualities though- they were brilliant yesterday and won them the game.
Mainly because I really think you are an absolute chancer who is full of shite. You also posted on here at 6.36pm with no mobile icon, so that too.
How you can say 'the system doesn't work' is absolutely comical - take a look at where Donegal were last year and were they are now and think about what you've actually written. You also seem to miss that this is the start of something not the end product - a bit like the Dubs last year (your misguided and misjudged ramblings on Dublin last year still bring a smile to my face).Your 'analysis' is regularly awful, I've rarely read anything you have written and agreed with or thought it mildly insightful. Another poster who says what he sees without putting much thought into it or looking at the bigger picture.
1- I live approx 10 mins from Croke Park. :D
2- I've been right about the Dubs every year so far. Unlike you who is nearly always wrong. I think I'll nickname you the Cooler.
3- I think Donegal are singularly awful team to watch playing and its my democratic right to say so. I admire some of their defenders like Lacey, Magee and Cassidy who are absolute warriors who would grace any team. Those three lads won that game for Donegal yesterday. Lacey's display is probably the most selfless display I've seen for about 20 years on a GAA pitch. It was Herculean in nature.
Its terrible to watch players like Murphy and Mc Brearty reduced to spectators. They may as well have been sitting in the premium seats beside me yesterday. The system utterly failed for most of that game. A bad decision and some poor shooting cost Kildare the game. Kildare continually get the wrong players in the best shooting positions.
Kildare have a number of good young forwards I've seen playing on their minor teams in the last few years. Its a mystery to me why we've seen so little of them so far. Especially when they are clocking up 15 wides on average per game.
Quote from: Craigyhill Terror on July 31, 2011, 12:28:03 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 31, 2011, 11:57:55 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 31, 2011, 11:47:33 AM
QuoteRafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min
They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.
sorry meant to clarify - during game
Murphy and E McGee on for McBrearty and mcgrath 27th min
McElhinney for Gallagher HT
Molloy for Hegarty 41st min
Toye for McFadden 58
thats 5 subs in normal time
the subs used prior to ET would be classed as substitutions availed of for the extra period.
so Donegal only had one sub available to them in ET thereafter.
The cute hoors got away with it as they did it at the break.
The officials are at fault, and compounds a bad day at the office for them !
unless of course I am wrong and you are indeed allowed 10 substitutions and subs during interval between FT and ET are allowed en masse. I dont think so though....
The changes made between the end of normal time and extra-time do not count. If you had a squad of 30 you could start a totally different 15 to begin extra-time and you could still make three subs during it.
2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.
(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players on
the List submitted to the Referee prior to the
game, except as provided for in (d) below, may
start Extra Time.
(c) The Referee shall be given a List of the 15
players starting Extra Time, or a Note clearly
indicating the changes made from that of
the finishing team in Normal Time. This List/
Note may be in single form but shall otherwise
comply with the provisions of Rule 2.5 - List of
Players.
(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.
(e) Substitutions/Temporary Substitutions shall
be allowed during the playing of Extra Time as
outlined in Rule 2.4(ii) and (iii).
(f) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued in Normal Time
shall carry over into Extra Time
thanks for that
my rule book that I was reding when you posted does not contain rule 2.6 !!
Still from my reading of this, rule 2.6 in conjunction with rule 2.5 do not clarify whether these changes draw from the further 3 substitutions allowed in inj or as you indicate, the ability to change the entire XV players.
the interpretation could be that the list the ref is given will be the same XV with/without substitutions. It does not say anywhere that this could be a completely new xv set of players (from the listed 26/30)
IMO this is a problem with our rule book also - things need to be defined properly so there is no ambiguity - which in this case I still think there is.
For Kildare, I expect that even if they do object, the question and excuse of interepretation will allow Croke park to uphold the result and an objection will fail.
This is what Croke park will want given that a replay would have to be next weekend Kildare need a rest !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 31, 2011, 11:37:54 AM
I was disappointed in the ref yesterday - he had a superb season last year , but has been a bit under par so far this year.
I know I harp on about hawkeye and video technology. The more games go on this season, the more I believe this is required.
OK I didnt have the best view of the Kildare square ball goal, but I thought the goal should have stood but yes, there is the question whether OConors foot was in the square. Video replays would answer this continual problem. Donegal and kildare both fouled cynically and if the ref had pulled this up early on, the game would have been a more flowing contest as yellow carded players would know thy couldnt pull or third man tackle/block a run all through the game as it then turned out.
Not trying to be hard on Donegal, but there were two scores they received that should have been frees out plus a free could have been awarded in the last kildare attack before Cassidy's winning score - the ref had been giving them all day long - an easier free was given to Kildare to equalise just before full time.
On the other hand that full time equaliser and a few other scores were gifted to kildare when they were not deserved. Kildare's first point came from in a john doyle free going wide and OConnor illegally going outside the playing area to jump back in and fist the ball to Flaherty to score.Yes ref anorak time, but that point should not have stood. Later illegal scores from a free (after Sweeney played the ball on the ground)
and that end of FT equaliser to me make it actually even - both teams ended up with an equal amount of incorrect scores for/against them that balances out equally.
That said, Kildare's general play for mean should have meant they won the game. It shows that posession doesnt always count for feck all in sport.
Credit to Donegal for staying in the game while being completely wiped out - though their giving the ball away so cheaply must worry McGuinness.
The ref didnt mean to make these mistakes but a second ref/video ref should be implemented to assist him and to give teams the fairest possible chance - but the ref and refs of all future games MUST address cynical fouling (not to mention the bit of gamesmanship and diving done by both teams as well as the feigning inj to eat up time) if we are to eradicate this systematic persistent cynical fouling out of the game.
I actually think Donegal didnt play as they could yesterday in that their full forward line didnt perform at all...if they had I think Donegal would have won well. Even in saying that, I think they should have won it in normal time.
The ref did make some balls ups alright....they probably did even themselves out though for both teams. The Kildare goal should have stood but then Kildare did get some soft frees towards the end of normal time to level the game.
I think Kildare are completely overrated. Just look at the Derry game....had the goal been allowed there when we were on top, we could well have went on to win even missing the players we were. they can score when they're not tightly marked, but most county teams can do this. Derry scored 13 against a blanket defence in normal time without 2 star forwards and without really playing for the last 20-25 mins of the game. That's not the sign of a good team for me. Kildare are average at best IMO.
Donegal remind me of Armagh in '02 and Tyrone in '03. I think they can win the AI and I think the more they play the more cohesive their attack will become. I believe Tyrone will beat Dublin, and Donegal will beat Tyrone again taking them to the final....then who knows what would happen.
As for the cynical fouling, Kildare are as cynical as Donegal. It's part and parcel of the Blanket game. It's not nice to watch but as long as it gets results teams will keep doing it. Kerry are also a cynical side remember and wait till you see Dublin and tyrone next week.
It happens all over.
The game was very exciting and as much as I cant listen to that wee ar*e McHugh, I'd like to see Donegal go on. I think they will get better in each game...as IMO Donegal didnt play as well yesterday as they did in the Ulster final.
Fantastic display of defending, disciplined tackling and winning the ball in the tackle by both teams.
That was always my understanding of Extra Time too Hardy....I dont think there's any wrong doing.
You're the ref, but its looks pretty clear to me Lynchboy. Its three subs DURING extra time. Any fifteen from the list of 26 given to the ref before the game can START extra time. Don't see any grounds for an objection there as, if I remember correctly, McFadden and Rafferty started extra time.
http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2011_Part_2.pdf (http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2011_Part_2.pdf)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 31, 2011, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: Craigyhill Terror on July 31, 2011, 12:28:03 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 31, 2011, 11:57:55 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 31, 2011, 11:47:33 AM
QuoteRafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min
They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.
sorry meant to clarify - during game
Murphy and E McGee on for McBrearty and mcgrath 27th min
McElhinney for Gallagher HT
Molloy for Hegarty 41st min
Toye for McFadden 58
thats 5 subs in normal time
the subs used prior to ET would be classed as substitutions availed of for the extra period.
so Donegal only had one sub available to them in ET thereafter.
The cute hoors got away with it as they did it at the break.
The officials are at fault, and compounds a bad day at the office for them !
unless of course I am wrong and you are indeed allowed 10 substitutions and subs during interval between FT and ET are allowed en masse. I dont think so though....
The changes made between the end of normal time and extra-time do not count. If you had a squad of 30 you could start a totally different 15 to begin extra-time and you could still make three subs during it.
2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.
(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players on
the List submitted to the Referee prior to the
game, except as provided for in (d) below, may
start Extra Time.
(c) The Referee shall be given a List of the 15
players starting Extra Time, or a Note clearly
indicating the changes made from that of
the finishing team in Normal Time. This List/
Note may be in single form but shall otherwise
comply with the provisions of Rule 2.5 - List of
Players.
(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.
(e) Substitutions/Temporary Substitutions shall
be allowed during the playing of Extra Time as
outlined in Rule 2.4(ii) and (iii).
(f) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued in Normal Time
shall carry over into Extra Time
thanks for that
my rule book that I was reding when you posted does not contain rule 2.6 !!
Still from my reading of this, rule 2.6 in conjunction with rule 2.5 do not clarify whether these changes draw from the further 3 substitutions allowed in inj or as you indicate, the ability to change the entire XV players.
the interpretation could be that the list the ref is given will be the same XV with/without substitutions. It does not say anywhere that this could be a completely new xv set of players (from the listed 26/30)
The key phrase is "
any fifteen players may start Extra Time" which is included without any reference to substitutions, so that suggests it's a clean slate but you're right, the rule book shouldn't suggest things, it should clearly define them
Quote from: INDIANA on July 31, 2011, 12:49:51 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2011, 12:38:57 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 31, 2011, 11:33:42 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 10:14:00 PM
I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times. I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was. Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.
Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side. It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further. That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty. They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.
Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.
Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.
Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.
As it should have.
Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.
A game takes on a different dynamic once a score is given, unless the ref was going to blow for full-time straight after the 'goal'? Donegal scored 4 points to win the game in extra time after being level at FT and down 3 in ET, so they were obviously well capable of clawing back a lead. To say Kildare would have won if their 'goal' had counted is an exercise in arithmetic that doesn't take into account the plethora of things that can happen in any game and once again it's the sort of short-sighted(shite) analysis that I'd expect from yourself.
I also doubt you were at the game.
With respect how would you know if I was at the game? :D. Have you got a webcam on me?
An imbecile could say Donegal werent coming back from a 6 point deficit. At that juncture of the game Donegal's efforts at scoring resembled watching the Faroe Islands trying to score at soccer.
The disallowed goal woke Donegal up for some proverbial reason and got Mc Guinness to actually send on a few forwards like Christy Toye ( a class player) in deference to some of the others we had ahead of him. Donegal decided to commit to attack for once.
The system was again shown up in the final 10 minutes of normal time when Donegal committed to defence- didnt win one breaking ball for the entire period and against a more competent forward line would have lost the game.
this system doesnt work and Donegal play their best football when in attack mode. Its depressing to watch a team with a lot of very good footballers play in such a negative fashion.
You'd have to admire lads like Lacey, Cassidy and Magee for theri defensive qualities though- they were brilliant yesterday and won them the game.
Mainly because I really think you are an absolute chancer who is full of shite. You also posted on here at 6.36pm with no mobile icon, so that too.
How you can say 'the system doesn't work' is absolutely comical - take a look at where Donegal were last year and were they are now and think about what you've actually written. You also seem to miss that this is the start of something not the end product - a bit like the Dubs last year (your misguided and misjudged ramblings on Dublin last year still bring a smile to my face).Your 'analysis' is regularly awful, I've rarely read anything you have written and agreed with or thought it mildly insightful. Another poster who says what he sees without putting much thought into it or looking at the bigger picture.
1- I live approx 10 mins from Croke Park. :D
2- I've been right about the Dubs every year so far. Unlike you who is nearly always wrong. I think I'll nickname you the Cooler.
3- I think Donegal are singularly awful team to watch playing and its my democratic right to say so. I admire some of their defenders like Lacey, Magee and Cassidy who are absolute warriors who would grace any team. Those three lads won that game for Donegal yesterday. Lacey's display is probably the most selfless display I've seen for about 20 years on a GAA pitch. It was Herculean in nature.
Its terrible to watch players like Murphy and Mc Brearty reduced to spectators. They may as well have been sitting in the premium seats beside me yesterday. The system utterly failed for most of that game. A bad decision and some poor shooting cost Kildare the game. Kildare continually get the wrong players in the best shooting positions.
Kildare have a number of good young forwards I've seen playing on their minor teams in the last few years. Its a mystery to me why we've seen so little of them so far. Especially when they are clocking up 15 wides on average per game.
Without getting into Columbo territory: 1- So does that explain your post at 6.36 when the game was due to start at 6 ???, if you are to be believed at all it means in all likelihood it would have been 7ish before you got into CP. I smell a rather large rodent. It really doesn't matter thou but why not just say you watched it on TV? which would bring me back to my original assertion that you are full of shite.
2- Lie, you entertained the whole board with your abuse of Gilroy and comical misreading of the Dubs progress.
3- Correct, the fact that you cannot see the Dubs of last year there thou is strange, although to be fair you did give them absolute dogs abuse for their style, but singularly failed to understand what Gilroy was trying to achieve and gave him no slack whatsoever. I guess you prefer style over substance, which would pretty much mirror the Dub's problems for the past decade pre-Pat.
Quote from: Craigyhill Terror on July 31, 2011, 01:12:57 PM
The key phrase is "any fifteen players may start Extra Time" which is included without any reference to substitutions, so that suggests it's a clean slate but you're right, the rule book shouldn't suggest things, it should clearly define them
for me and to close this completely this is still too ambiguous.
a certain frank murphy would destroy this if Cork were in Kildare's position.
Yes any XV player can start ET, but it doesnt say that these should or should not be the ones that finished normal time - only players that were listed on the original 26/30 player teamsheet- BUT not any player that was sent off.
(there will pobbily also need to be a line in the rule book stating that this applies for both a straight red and two yellow card sending offs ).
I know this is clutching at straws and nit picking what would seem like straightforward interpretation, but I think we all know that certain GAA men (ahem stand forward mr murphy) have fought against such tenuous terms and actually won !!
I cant see any objection being upheld though. (unless of course the disallowed goal weighs heavily on the minds of a few)
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2011, 01:24:05 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 31, 2011, 12:49:51 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2011, 12:38:57 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 31, 2011, 11:33:42 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 30, 2011, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 30, 2011, 10:14:00 PM
I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times. I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was. Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.
Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side. It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further. That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty. They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.
Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.
Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.
Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.
As it should have.
Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.
A game takes on a different dynamic once a score is given, unless the ref was going to blow for full-time straight after the 'goal'? Donegal scored 4 points to win the game in extra time after being level at FT and down 3 in ET, so they were obviously well capable of clawing back a lead. To say Kildare would have won if their 'goal' had counted is an exercise in arithmetic that doesn't take into account the plethora of things that can happen in any game and once again it's the sort of short-sighted(shite) analysis that I'd expect from yourself.
I also doubt you were at the game.
With respect how would you know if I was at the game? :D. Have you got a webcam on me?
An imbecile could say Donegal werent coming back from a 6 point deficit. At that juncture of the game Donegal's efforts at scoring resembled watching the Faroe Islands trying to score at soccer.
The disallowed goal woke Donegal up for some proverbial reason and got Mc Guinness to actually send on a few forwards like Christy Toye ( a class player) in deference to some of the others we had ahead of him. Donegal decided to commit to attack for once.
The system was again shown up in the final 10 minutes of normal time when Donegal committed to defence- didnt win one breaking ball for the entire period and against a more competent forward line would have lost the game.
this system doesnt work and Donegal play their best football when in attack mode. Its depressing to watch a team with a lot of very good footballers play in such a negative fashion.
You'd have to admire lads like Lacey, Cassidy and Magee for theri defensive qualities though- they were brilliant yesterday and won them the game.
Mainly because I really think you are an absolute chancer who is full of shite. You also posted on here at 6.36pm with no mobile icon, so that too.
How you can say 'the system doesn't work' is absolutely comical - take a look at where Donegal were last year and were they are now and think about what you've actually written. You also seem to miss that this is the start of something not the end product - a bit like the Dubs last year (your misguided and misjudged ramblings on Dublin last year still bring a smile to my face).Your 'analysis' is regularly awful, I've rarely read anything you have written and agreed with or thought it mildly insightful. Another poster who says what he sees without putting much thought into it or looking at the bigger picture.
1- I live approx 10 mins from Croke Park. :D
2- I've been right about the Dubs every year so far. Unlike you who is nearly always wrong. I think I'll nickname you the Cooler.
3- I think Donegal are singularly awful team to watch playing and its my democratic right to say so. I admire some of their defenders like Lacey, Magee and Cassidy who are absolute warriors who would grace any team. Those three lads won that game for Donegal yesterday. Lacey's display is probably the most selfless display I've seen for about 20 years on a GAA pitch. It was Herculean in nature.
Its terrible to watch players like Murphy and Mc Brearty reduced to spectators. They may as well have been sitting in the premium seats beside me yesterday. The system utterly failed for most of that game. A bad decision and some poor shooting cost Kildare the game. Kildare continually get the wrong players in the best shooting positions.
Kildare have a number of good young forwards I've seen playing on their minor teams in the last few years. Its a mystery to me why we've seen so little of them so far. Especially when they are clocking up 15 wides on average per game.
Without getting into Columbo territory: 1- So does that explain your post at 6.36 when the game was due to start at 6 ???, if you are to be believed at all it means in all likelihood it would have been 7ish before you got into CP. I smell a rather large rodent. It really doesn't matter thou but why not just say you watched it on TV? which would bring me back to my original assertion that you are full of shite.
2- Lie, you entertained the whole board with your abuse of Gilroy and comical misreading of the Dubs progress.
3- Correct, the fact that you cannot see the Dubs of last year there thou is strange, although to be fair you did give them absolute dogs abuse for their style, but singularly failed to understand what Gilroy was trying to achieve and gave him no slack whatsoever. I guess you prefer style over substance, which would pretty much mirror the Dub's problems for the past decade pre-Pat.
Sorry I resent the remark I abused anyone. pat Gilroy is a club mate of mine. I defy to find any post where I abused the manager.
If you cant find one- which you wont. It only underlnes the bluffer you are.
So go ahead and find a post where I abused Pat Gilroy Columbo.
Make sure you understand the term abuse- you pratt.
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 31, 2011, 01:10:18 PM
That was always my understanding of Extra Time too Hardy....I dont think there's any wrong doing.
Sorry about the confusion tbrick. I deleted my reference to ET subs when I saw it had already been dealt with.
What's ambiguous about the phrase "any fifteen"?
Fair enough point regarding use of the word 'abuse', stick would have been a better choice, but the jist of my post remains unaltered - your full of shite.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2011, 02:49:52 PM
Fair enough point regarding use of the word 'abuse', stick would have been a better choice, but the jist of my post remains unaltered - your full of shite.
Thanks you've now been outed as a bluffer and a spoofer.
Semantics chief, another thing you dont quite grasp by the looks of it. Clown.
Quote from: Hardy on July 31, 2011, 02:08:11 PM
What's ambiguous about the phrase "any fifteen"?
IMO it's ambiguous as it says any 15
A. From the panel of 26/30
B. But not any player that has been sent off
It does not clarify that the any 15 players may not have finished the game in normal time or may nit have featured in the game at all up until that point.
If you know how many challenges at county board level there are for similar things over wordi g etc that are upheld , you'd realize that the wording here is far from watertight and the likes of brolly regularly have field days when they used to represent players/clubs on such matters.
Not sure what happens these days with cc cc cc in place!
But the most harmless/obvious of 'rules/wording' are often ex
Belated congrats to both teams on a fascinating game to watch. Initially hoped that Kildare would win, however I have to say that I was unimpressed at their cynical fouling at the end of extra time. Contrasting views on their defeat as if Dublin were not to win AI I would love to see Kildare win it, but would have been gutted if they beat us on the way (obviously a real "what if" scenario with Tyrone ready to pounce.)
Honestly think that Kildare will be a huge force in the next 5 years at senior and underage level. They seem at long last to be getting the Dublin satellite towns in the county involved in their underage teams and the old sniffy approach towards these clubs seems to have been sidelined. Believe you me these boys will win AIs shortly.
Maybe a change of manager might freshen things up, even though McG has done a very good job, his raising of expetations in the county might be his undoing.
Watching the highlights there and Frankie Mc Glynn had a serious game, hasnt been singled out for much praise, mighty tight corner back
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
Wise up!!
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
Kildare have def got the rough end of the stick v Down last year and yesterday but they got the rub of the green v Derry and Meath this year.
The "goal" at the time it was at would have been decisive but there was still 20 mins of the game and then another 20 in ET to play.
If they hadn't fell asleep when Christy Toye wandered onto the field and stuck the ball in the net and if they hadn't continually carried the ball into tackles they probably would have won. The main difference was that Donegal had players to take long range points and Kildare didn't.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
Let it go man.if it's for ya, it's for ya! Kildare have nobody to blame but themselves. If you dwell on these things they eat you up!
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
Ask Derry or Meath.
kildare were involved in three matches this year where there was decisions made wrong two out three went in their favour when clearly they were both wrong so i believe they got what they derserved
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 31, 2011, 11:56:14 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
Let it go man.if it's for ya, it's for ya! Kildare have nobody to blame but themselves. If you dwell on these things they eat you up!
Sure Louth last year against Meath, Mayo the year before against Meath, it happens to everyone.
must be no barbers in kildare
it s a strimmer mc geeney needs
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 01, 2011, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 31, 2011, 11:56:14 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
Let it go man.if it's for ya, it's for ya! Kildare have nobody to blame but themselves. If you dwell on these things they eat you up!
Sure Louth last year against Meath, Mayo the year before against Meath, it happens to everyone.
I'll say one thing, you Mayo folk have very vivid imaginations.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
The umpire was correct. It was the ref at fault. As has already been pointed out there have been a whole host of incorrect decisions this year around square balls. Stupid rule and virtually impossible to police at full speed. Umpires are best placed to do so but in this case the ref wrongly overruled him. Donegal were fantastic and deserve great credit for the heart and never say die attitude they showed. I do believe however that had Kildare rightly gone 6 points up it would have been too much to claw back with the system Donegal play. They'd have to take chances then and would have gotten picked off at the back. Still we'll never know.
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 31, 2011, 01:07:13 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 31, 2011, 11:37:54 AM
I was disappointed in the ref yesterday - he had a superb season last year , but has been a bit under par so far this year.
I know I harp on about hawkeye and video technology. The more games go on this season, the more I believe this is required.
OK I didnt have the best view of the Kildare square ball goal, but I thought the goal should have stood but yes, there is the question whether OConors foot was in the square. Video replays would answer this continual problem. Donegal and kildare both fouled cynically and if the ref had pulled this up early on, the game would have been a more flowing contest as yellow carded players would know thy couldnt pull or third man tackle/block a run all through the game as it then turned out.
Not trying to be hard on Donegal, but there were two scores they received that should have been frees out plus a free could have been awarded in the last kildare attack before Cassidy's winning score - the ref had been giving them all day long - an easier free was given to Kildare to equalise just before full time.
On the other hand that full time equaliser and a few other scores were gifted to kildare when they were not deserved. Kildare's first point came from in a john doyle free going wide and OConnor illegally going outside the playing area to jump back in and fist the ball to Flaherty to score.Yes ref anorak time, but that point should not have stood. Later illegal scores from a free (after Sweeney played the ball on the ground)
and that end of FT equaliser to me make it actually even - both teams ended up with an equal amount of incorrect scores for/against them that balances out equally.
That said, Kildare's general play for mean should have meant they won the game. It shows that posession doesnt always count for feck all in sport.
Credit to Donegal for staying in the game while being completely wiped out - though their giving the ball away so cheaply must worry McGuinness.
The ref didnt mean to make these mistakes but a second ref/video ref should be implemented to assist him and to give teams the fairest possible chance - but the ref and refs of all future games MUST address cynical fouling (not to mention the bit of gamesmanship and diving done by both teams as well as the feigning inj to eat up time) if we are to eradicate this systematic persistent cynical fouling out of the game.
I actually think Donegal didnt play as they could yesterday in that their full forward line didnt perform at all...if they had I think Donegal would have won well. Even in saying that, I think they should have won it in normal time.
The ref did make some balls ups alright....they probably did even themselves out though for both teams. The Kildare goal should have stood but then Kildare did get some soft frees towards the end of normal time to level the game.
I think Kildare are completely overrated. Just look at the Derry game....had the goal been allowed there when we were on top, we could well have went on to win even missing the players we were. they can score when they're not tightly marked, but most county teams can do this. Derry scored 13 against a blanket defence in normal time without 2 star forwards and without really playing for the last 20-25 mins of the game. That's not the sign of a good team for me. Kildare are average at best IMO.
Donegal remind me of Armagh in '02 and Tyrone in '03. I think they can win the AI and I think the more they play the more cohesive their attack will become. I believe Tyrone will beat Dublin, and Donegal will beat Tyrone again taking them to the final....then who knows what would happen.
As for the cynical fouling, Kildare are as cynical as Donegal. It's part and parcel of the Blanket game. It's not nice to watch but as long as it gets results teams will keep doing it. Kerry are also a cynical side remember and wait till you see Dublin and tyrone next week.
It happens all over.
The game was very exciting and as much as I cant listen to that wee ar*e McHugh, I'd like to see Donegal go on. I think they will get better in each game...as IMO Donegal didnt play as well yesterday as they did in the Ulster final.
I have to disagree. Donegal aren't a team with an abundance of flair, and once they meet one of the big guns in Croke Park I think they will be beat. They just don't have that extra something that is required. Their workrate etc is great to see but that is not going to carry them to an All Ireland. I think Tyrone will end up making the final against Kerry.
You can make as many subs as you want between the end of normal time and the beginning of ET (subject to not putting on anyone who is inelligible of course).
Talk of an objection is just stupid. No rule was broken, and there's absolutely no ambuigity about it.
That rule was in place in 1991 (and probably long beforehand) and hasn't changed since
I may have missed it but has any reason been given as to why Murphy started on the bench for Donegal and then was fit enough to play the rest of the game coming on after twenty odd minutes and why McBrearty was subbed off for him after a promising start?
5-3 at half time. i've seen more scoring in funeral homes.
Quote from: Leo on July 31, 2011, 07:42:48 AM
The "goal" - even in slow motion a borderline decision. But if his foot was over the line as the ball was in flight - and it seemed to be - it is a square ball.
The cynical fouling - I think you'll find Kildare well ahead on that count, especially when they thought they had it in the bag in extra time. We could take a leaf out of rugby where the referee can warn the captain that for persistent fouling the next offender will see red.
The no-free near the end - no different to any number of decisions in any gaelic football game, this one included, so many can go either way.
And I thought the referee was very good.
MOM - in my opinion the Donegal full back McGee gave a real tour-de-force from start to finish.
He didn't even get a mention from the RTE panel & commentators who displayed a naked pro-Kildare bias throughout.
Fitness now rules football and we will only get football back when we restrict the handpass.
You need to check the VCR, slow mo on TV clearly shaows the player outside the small square when the ball struck the upright an came back at him so it could not have been a square ball. That said I don't think Kerry will be quaking in their boots after this weekends fare.
Quote from: twenty one yard free on August 01, 2011, 12:22:43 AM
kildare were involved in three matches this year where there was decisions made wrong two out three went in their favour when clearly they were both wrong so i believe they got what they derserved
Look any number of teams can say the same, it is about time that a TVO is introduced for major championship matches especially if they are knock out.
Quote from: sheamy on August 01, 2011, 07:52:38 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
The umpire was correct. It was the ref at fault. As has already been pointed out there have been a whole host of incorrect decisions this year around square balls. Stupid rule and virtually impossible to police at full speed. Umpires are best placed to do so but in this case the ref wrongly overruled him. Donegal were fantastic and deserve great credit for the heart and never say die attitude they showed. I do believe however that had Kildare rightly gone 6 points up it would have been too much to claw back with the system Donegal play. They'd have to take chances then and would have gotten picked off at the back. Still we'll never know.
I have correct this on a number of occasions now, umpires can not give a square ball it is strictly the ref's call. He isn't even allowed to consult. Having said that a lot of good refs who trust their umpires will have a signal if they are in doubt.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 01, 2011, 10:28:03 AM
Quote from: sheamy on August 01, 2011, 07:52:38 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
The umpire was correct. It was the ref at fault. As has already been pointed out there have been a whole host of incorrect decisions this year around square balls. Stupid rule and virtually impossible to police at full speed. Umpires are best placed to do so but in this case the ref wrongly overruled him. Donegal were fantastic and deserve great credit for the heart and never say die attitude they showed. I do believe however that had Kildare rightly gone 6 points up it would have been too much to claw back with the system Donegal play. They'd have to take chances then and would have gotten picked off at the back. Still we'll never know.
I have correct this on a number of occasions now, umpires can not give a square ball it is strictly the ref's call. He isn't even allowed to consult. Having said that a lot of good refs who trust their umpires will have a signal if they are in doubt.
Ah ok, fair enough. Didn't know that. A bit feckin stupid though given that for most high balls the ref will be 40 yards away with a crowd of players in front of him. An umpire will be 4-5 yards away at any time. Utter madness to think what lads go through only for their year to be made or broken on such decisions. It has to stop.
I think McGeeney's fast losing credibility with the constant whining about referee decisions going against them. The goal conceded against Down last year was obviously a square ball, but at the same time Kildare's goal in that game should also have been wiped off the scoreline. Some of the tackling from Kildare on Saturday was ridiculous and wouldn't have looked out of place on a rugby pitch but there was no mention of that oddly enough.
Quote from: Paddy Wan Kenobi on August 01, 2011, 10:57:49 AM
I think McGeeney's fast losing credibility with the constant whining about referee decisions going against them. The goal conceded against Down last year was obviously a square ball, but at the same time Kildare's goal in that game should also have been wiped off the scoreline. Some of the tackling from Kildare on Saturday was ridiculous and wouldn't have looked out of place on a rugby pitch but there was no mention of that oddly enough.
It was mentioned briefly on the Sunday game. One of the Kildare backroom team contacted the papers last week to say they hoped the referee would pay close attention to Donegal cynical fouling....McGuinness brought it up in his interview and McGeeney tried to respond but didnt make much of a job of it IMO. For me in this particular game, Kildare were more guilty of cynical fouling than Donegal, particularly in extra time.
Quote from: tbrick18 on August 01, 2011, 11:08:41 AM
Quote from: Paddy Wan Kenobi on August 01, 2011, 10:57:49 AM
I think McGeeney's fast losing credibility with the constant whining about referee decisions going against them. The goal conceded against Down last year was obviously a square ball, but at the same time Kildare's goal in that game should also have been wiped off the scoreline. Some of the tackling from Kildare on Saturday was ridiculous and wouldn't have looked out of place on a rugby pitch but there was no mention of that oddly enough.
It was mentioned briefly on the Sunday game. One of the Kildare backroom team contacted the papers last week to say they hoped the referee would pay close attention to Donegal cynical fouling....McGuinness brought it up in his interview and McGeeney tried to respond but didnt make much of a job of it IMO. For me in this particular game, Kildare were more guilty of cynical fouling than Donegal, particularly in extra time.
I think they all got yellows though. You can ask no more than that. They were also trying to hang on in last few minutes when most of it occurred. That's not systematic and any team in the country would do the same.
The problem is when the ref lets it go as it doesn't seem like a serious foul i.e. a slight pull on the arm etc. It's not a shoulder in the head so refs give a free and forget about it. Some of the fouls Kildare committed were downright laughable but everyone sees them. There's a 'skill' and cuteness to it like everything else.
Referees need more football intelligence to know when systematic fouls are taking place. The foul is as much a part of the blanket defense system as any other aspect. It's essential if your team loses the ball that the opposing team are stopped at all costs from attacking before you get all your men back into position. 3-4 secs are all that is needed.
Quote from: sheamy on August 01, 2011, 11:19:48 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on August 01, 2011, 11:08:41 AM
Quote from: Paddy Wan Kenobi on August 01, 2011, 10:57:49 AM
I think McGeeney's fast losing credibility with the constant whining about referee decisions going against them. The goal conceded against Down last year was obviously a square ball, but at the same time Kildare's goal in that game should also have been wiped off the scoreline. Some of the tackling from Kildare on Saturday was ridiculous and wouldn't have looked out of place on a rugby pitch but there was no mention of that oddly enough.
It was mentioned briefly on the Sunday game. One of the Kildare backroom team contacted the papers last week to say they hoped the referee would pay close attention to Donegal cynical fouling....McGuinness brought it up in his interview and McGeeney tried to respond but didnt make much of a job of it IMO. For me in this particular game, Kildare were more guilty of cynical fouling than Donegal, particularly in extra time.
I think they all got yellows though. You can ask no more than that. They were also trying to hang on in last few minutes when most of it occurred. That's not systematic and any team in the country would do the same.
The problem is when the ref lets it go as it doesn't seem like a serious foul i.e. a slight pull on the arm etc. It's not a shoulder in the head so refs give a free and forget about it. Some of the fouls Kildare committed were downright laughable but everyone seems them. There's a 'skill' and cuteness to it like everything else.
Referees need more football intelligence to know when systematic fouls are taking place. The foul is as much a part of the blanket defense system as any other aspect. It's essential if your team loses the ball that the opposing team are stopped at all costs from attacking before you get all your men back into position. 3-4 secs are all that is needed.
I agree with you 100%....ref did give yellows for it. I was just highlighting the fact the it was Kildare who brought it up in the media that they wanted the ref to clamp down on donegal for fouling cynically, then it was themselves who did the cynical fouling and got punished for it. A little ironic to say the least.
The goal decision aside the ref actually had a decent game I thought.
Quote from: sheamy on August 01, 2011, 10:43:25 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 01, 2011, 10:28:03 AM
Quote from: sheamy on August 01, 2011, 07:52:38 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
That is 3 championship games in a row where Kildare have been beaten by the ref. It looks so bad when the umpiring is this bad. It leaves you asking is it idiocy or corruption?
The umpire was correct. It was the ref at fault. As has already been pointed out there have been a whole host of incorrect decisions this year around square balls. Stupid rule and virtually impossible to police at full speed. Umpires are best placed to do so but in this case the ref wrongly overruled him. Donegal were fantastic and deserve great credit for the heart and never say die attitude they showed. I do believe however that had Kildare rightly gone 6 points up it would have been too much to claw back with the system Donegal play. They'd have to take chances then and would have gotten picked off at the back. Still we'll never know.
I have correct this on a number of occasions now, umpires can not give a square ball it is strictly the ref's call. He isn't even allowed to consult. Having said that a lot of good refs who trust their umpires will have a signal if they are in doubt.
Ah ok, fair enough. Didn't know that. A bit feckin stupid though given that for most high balls the ref will be 40 yards away with a crowd of players in front of him. An umpire will be 4-5 yards away at any time. Utter madness to think what lads go through only for their year to be made or broken on such decisions. It has to stop.
The rule was changed to suit club games where umpires aren't always neutral.
Quote from: tbrick18 on August 01, 2011, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: sheamy on August 01, 2011, 11:19:48 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on August 01, 2011, 11:08:41 AM
Quote from: Paddy Wan Kenobi on August 01, 2011, 10:57:49 AM
I think McGeeney's fast losing credibility with the constant whining about referee decisions going against them. The goal conceded against Down last year was obviously a square ball, but at the same time Kildare's goal in that game should also have been wiped off the scoreline. Some of the tackling from Kildare on Saturday was ridiculous and wouldn't have looked out of place on a rugby pitch but there was no mention of that oddly enough.
It was mentioned briefly on the Sunday game. One of the Kildare backroom team contacted the papers last week to say they hoped the referee would pay close attention to Donegal cynical fouling....McGuinness brought it up in his interview and McGeeney tried to respond but didnt make much of a job of it IMO. For me in this particular game, Kildare were more guilty of cynical fouling than Donegal, particularly in extra time.
I think they all got yellows though. You can ask no more than that. They were also trying to hang on in last few minutes when most of it occurred. That's not systematic and any team in the country would do the same.
The problem is when the ref lets it go as it doesn't seem like a serious foul i.e. a slight pull on the arm etc. It's not a shoulder in the head so refs give a free and forget about it. Some of the fouls Kildare committed were downright laughable but everyone seems them. There's a 'skill' and cuteness to it like everything else.
Referees need more football intelligence to know when systematic fouls are taking place. The foul is as much a part of the blanket defense system as any other aspect. It's essential if your team loses the ball that the opposing team are stopped at all costs from attacking before you get all your men back into position. 3-4 secs are all that is needed.
I agree with you 100%....ref did give yellows for it. I was just highlighting the fact the it was Kildare who brought it up in the media that they wanted the ref to clamp down on donegal for fouling cynically, then it was themselves who did the cynical fouling and got punished for it. A little ironic to say the least.
The goal decision aside the ref actually had a decent game I thought.
The way to deal with this is like dissent, first cynical foul gets a tick, second a yellow and third a red, even if its a different player, then start again. I think that how sinbins work in the rugby, team offences rather than individual.
Quote from: tbrick18 on August 01, 2011, 12:43:49 PM
I agree with you 100%....ref did give yellows for it. I was just highlighting the fact the it was Kildare who brought it up in the media that they wanted the ref to clamp down on donegal for fouling cynically, then it was themselves who did the cynical fouling and got punished for it. A little ironic to say the least.
The goal decision aside the ref actually had a decent game I thought.
The real irony was that at 3 points up in extra time, Kildare resorted to trying to defend the lead through cynical fouling rather than backing themselves to win it through playing the game properly.
The comments by Carew, given to a Kildare journalist with the Independent and accompanied by detailed – and unattributed – statistics on Donegal's fouling record that could only have been generated from within the Kildare set up, reflected terribly badly on them.
McGeeney's denial of knowledge of the comments was implausible. In fact, his first response when the RTE journalist asked him about it was the laugh like a wain caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
It was a ruse that back fired on two fronts. First, it handed additional motivation to the Donegal squad. And second, Kildare were shown to be the most cynical team in Croker this weekend with their rugby tackling* on Ryan Bradley in particular in extra time.
* Maybe that's what they brought Ronan O'Gara in for during the week. ;)
Some terrible rubbish written here as usual. McGuinness is fast becoming a soundbite and the sign of real class is to win and lose with good grace. Well done Donegal, ye got the breaks and deserved your win.
In all fairness Ronan wouldn't been known for his tackling. But McGeeney should know better, Armagh were caught a few times doing the same. Mind you the clamour for him to ride in on his charger to rescue Armagh seems to have ceased.
Is Jim McWhingess a youngest child, he's certainly doing his best to suck the romance out of Donegal.
Cry me a River Jim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DksSPZTZES0/)
or just
Don't Speak ya Whinger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR3Vdo5etCQ&ob=av2e/)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 01, 2011, 05:22:53 PM
Is Jim McWhingess a youngest child, he's certainly doing his best to suck the romance out of Donegal.
Cry me a River Jim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DksSPZTZES0/)
or just
Don't Speak ya Whinger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR3Vdo5etCQ&ob=av2e/)
But Carew should have kept his mouth shut.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 01, 2011, 05:28:44 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 01, 2011, 05:22:53 PM
Is Jim McWhingess a youngest child, he's certainly doing his best to suck the romance out of Donegal.
Cry me a River Jim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DksSPZTZES0/)
or just
Don't Speak ya Whinger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR3Vdo5etCQ&ob=av2e/)
But Carew should have kept his mouth shut.
I concur.
What did Carew say about Donegal?
I was away on Thursday and Friday so I didn't get to read any of the papers. I know there was an article doing the rounds earlier on in the week highlighting the off the ball treatment that Johnny received in the Derry match. Surely it wasn't that article that McGuinness was referring to?
He was 'suggesting' that the ref just might want to keep a close eye out for cynical, systematic fouling by the Donegal team.
Does anyone have a link to the offending article though? I'd like to read what was said.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 01, 2011, 06:05:58 PM
Does anyone have a link to the offending article though? I'd like to read what was said.
Think the Independent carried it on Friday or Saturday. Check their site.
(Sorry, can't post link... limitations of phone access!)
Thanks. Just read it there and in fairness it does read badly and it doesn't reflect well on Niall Carew. It was also a bit hypocritical of McGuinness to have a go back last night on the television. I thought McGeeney handled it quite well when quizzed about it.
Kildare were cynical in extra time yesterday - no doubt about it. However, I think it was a sign of a team that were simply completely knackered physically after playing four weeks on the trot. I don't agree that it was the case that they pulled back and tried to defend their lead. Donegal were that little bit fresher and it told in the final few minutes.
The truth is that every team nowadays is cynical and most of the successful teams of the past were as well. There is no need for bitching and crying about it in the media. The whole thing seems to be taken way too seriously by everyone concerned these days. A lot of managers should follow Mick O'Dwyer's example. In his ten years in charge of Kildare I struggle to remember a single occasion where he complained about an official or an opposing team. I remember one match in 2000 when Offaly made a late comeback to draw with Kildare. They were awarded a very controversial late free to win the match which their keeper Pádraig Kelly kicked narrowly wide. Micko was interviewed straight after the final whistle thinking that the free had gone over the bar and he had nothing but praise for Offaly when it would have been very easy for him to cut loose on the referee. I don't know why but it is always something that I have remembered.
On a similar note, reading this thread it is clear that some people seem to be under the illusion that Kildare have done nothing but whinge about decisions that have gone against us in the past twelve months. I thought the Kildare camp were typically gracious after another crushingly disappointing defeat as they were after the Down match last year. I would like someone to point out to me where anyone from Kildare has blamed the officials rather than admitting their own failings. The below interview with Johnny Doyle I think epitomises how magnanimous Kildare were in defeat:
http://www.kfmradio.com/kfm-podcasting/sport-podcasts/gaa-johnny-doyle-all-ireland-sfc-quarter-final-v-donegal-30-7-11.html (http://www.kfmradio.com/kfm-podcasting/sport-podcasts/gaa-johnny-doyle-all-ireland-sfc-quarter-final-v-donegal-30-7-11.html)
Can't say I heard any whinging from Kildare. McGeeney had a slight moan, but it was very restrained. Ronan Sweeney apparently tweeted about the square ball issue in terms of something needing to be done, but that is fair comment and being said left and right.
Cynical me arse. If I'd had Kildare backed (I hadn't, I backed Donegal at 24 for the AI before the match) and they hadn't made those fouls in the last five minute, I'D have been pretty cynical about it!
Kildare's "cynical " fouls were open and plain to see in the closing stages.
Donegal's on the other hand........ Doyle crocked after 20 seconds .........
Quote from: Rossfan on August 01, 2011, 07:58:08 PM
Kildare's "cynical " fouls were open and plain to see in the closing stages.
Donegal's on the other hand........ Doyle crocked after 20 seconds .........
The incident with john doyle was purely accidental sure hegarty wasn't right after it as well
Quote from: donegal lad on August 01, 2011, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 01, 2011, 07:58:08 PM
Kildare's "cynical " fouls were open and plain to see in the closing stages.
Donegal's on the other hand........ Doyle crocked after 20 seconds .........
The incident with john doyle was purely accidental sure hegarty wasn't right after it as well
Don't waste your breath. They like the narrative.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 01, 2011, 06:44:43 PM
A lot of managers should follow Mick O'Dwyer's example. In his ten years in charge of Kildare I struggle to remember a single occasion where he complained about an official or an opposing team. I remember one match in 2000 when Offaly made a late comeback to draw with Kildare. They were awarded a very controversial late free to win the match which their keeper Pádraig Kelly kicked narrowly wide. Micko was interviewed straight after the final whistle thinking that the free had gone over the bar and he had nothing but praise for Offaly when it would have been very easy for him to cut loose on the referee. I don't know why but it is always something that I have remembered.
That's right, I remember Micko interviewed and saying "replay, was it a draw" with a big cute head on him, but at the time (and I posted here or on whatever board we were on at the time) that Micko knew well it was a draw! Good crack all the same. Kildare destroyed us in the replay.
I have never been McGeeneys biggest fan (especially since that bollox of a picture of him with the Anglo-Celt the ref gave Armagh in 2005 when he had the thumb stuck out) but if anyone is whinging and whinging here it is McGuiness. The papers yesterday were full of his moaning, couldn't believe it. Not often I have heard a winning manager moan and moan about this, that and the other. He even had time to moan that he hurt his snout after ramming it into some boyoos camera.
Quote from: J70 on August 01, 2011, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: donegal lad on August 01, 2011, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 01, 2011, 07:58:08 PM
Kildare's "cynical " fouls were open and plain to see in the closing stages.
Donegal's on the other hand........ Doyle crocked after 20 seconds .........
The incident with john doyle was purely accidental sure hegarty wasn't right after it as well
Don't waste your breath. They like the narrative.
I saw that incident clearly from my seat, because I was looking at Hegarty coming in for the break. Obviously accidental I'd have thought. An unlucky dead leg for Doyle, and I think it affected his first two frees as well.
How has everyone become so obsessed with isolated referee decisions made against Kildare? This is bad for the sport when a bandwagon can form and one manager is seen to yap after every defeat implying that his team were robbed by a ref.
It is a game of 70 minutes and plenty of decisions are made. McGeeney didn't complain that Kildare should have beaten when they got a bad decision given in their favour against Meath. He didn't complain when Callaghan was allowed to take eleven steps to score a goal against Down, or that the referee allowed them to play six and a half minutes extra time when three had been allocated. He didn't complain about all the fouls they got away with on Bernard Brogan. He didn't complain about any bad decision given in Kildare's favour against Donegal. And as the manager of the team, fair enough why should he not want every advantage to go the way of his team?
But neutrals and most importantly media, really need to look at themselves and stop trying to pick isolated incidents out of context as excuses for defeats. That could be done in virtually every game if you so wished. The media are highly responsible for building a ridiculous "Poor Kildare" myth. It is wrong and it is dangerous. If it can be shown on balance that Kildare get an enormous ratio of bad decisions given against them over 70 minutes then that is fair enough but to highlight one decision without considering all the advantageous ones in a game is just narrow minded and self-serving.
It is dangerous because it effectively puts pressure on referees to call big calls in Kildare's favour because they know it will be highlighted. Effectively the situation is being generated where Kildare will have a better than favour advantage in marginal decisions.
For starters, he hardly ever complains about referees. He always says he wont talk about them. So you're clearly wrong. If you think Meath would have beaten us had Geraghtys goal been allowed, you clearly havent a clue about football.
Quote from: LilySavage on August 02, 2011, 11:28:57 AM
For starters, he hardly ever complains about referees. He always says he wont talk about them. So you're clearly wrong. If you think Meath would have beaten us had Geraghtys goal been allowed, you clearly havent a clue about football.
The momentum change would have been massive.
A body blow to Kildare having dominated so much of the game to have it back in the melting pot.
Impossible to know who would have won, but for sure Meath would have been right back in it.
Quote from: PAULD123 on August 02, 2011, 11:18:00 AM
How has everyone become so obsessed with isolated referee decisions made against Kildare?
Because us Kildare folk are generally seen as an affable, likeable (and modest!) lot and people like to see us doing well.
Quote from: PAULD123 on August 02, 2011, 11:18:00 AM
McGeeney didn't complain that Kildare should have beaten when they got a bad decision given in their favour against Meath.
Of course he didn't and sure why would he? Think of it as compensation for all those savage beatings that the angelic Martin Lynch was subjected to at the hands of various Meathmen down the years.
Quote from: PAULD123 on August 02, 2011, 11:18:00 AM
He didn't complain when Callaghan was allowed to take eleven steps to score a goal against Down
Sure poor Leper thought he was running around Punchestown given that he had a Downman up on his back at the time.
Quote from: PAULD123 on August 02, 2011, 11:18:00 AM
He didn't complain about all the fouls they got away with on Bernard Brogan.
What fouls? Sure everyone in Ireland (apart from Ollie Lyons and Andrew McLoughlin unfortunately) is fully aware of rule 55.2 in the GAA rulebook: Thou shalt not even fart within a five metre radius of Bernard Brogan.
Quote from: PAULD123 on August 02, 2011, 11:18:00 AM
The media are highly responsible for building a ridiculous "Poor Kildare" myth. It is wrong and it is dangerous.
You're damn right it's a myth and it is dangerous. Poor Kildare? Sure Kildare is the richest county in Ireland. Poverty is something that Kildare folk had never witnessed until the huddled masses from the big smoke started to colonise Leixlip/Maynooth/Celbridge/Clane/Kilcock/Naas/Newbridge etc during the 1990s. It's devestating that we lost on Saturday but at least our Range Rovers, our horses and our wrought iron remote controlled gates are of some comfort to us.
Quote from: PAULD123 on August 02, 2011, 11:18:00 AM
It is dangerous because it effectively puts pressure on referees to call big calls in Kildare's favour because they know it will be highlighted. Effectively the situation is being generated where Kildare will have a better than favour advantage in marginal decisions.
:D
That theory is working out well for us so far anyway!!
QuoteMcGeeney didn't complain that Kildare should have beaten when they got a bad decision given in their favour against Meath
Even the most ardent Meath realised that decision would not have affected the dynamic of the game to such an extent that they would have won the game if it was allowed stand, stop trying put a revisionist spin on it to suit your agenda. Kildare won by 6 points pulling up.
Quote
He didn't complain when Callaghan was allowed to take eleven steps to score a goal against Down, or that the referee allowed them to play six and a half minutes extra time when three had been allocated
Over-carrying happens in every game, some get called some don't, blatant square balls don't happen every game. Considering the amount of time-wasting Down did and all the hullabaloo over the last free 6 and a half minutes was probably fair. I notice you didn't counter anything to Alan Smith's perfectly legitimate point that was disallowed in the same game
Quote
He didn't complain about all the fouls they got away with on Bernard Brogan
More revisionism to suit your agenda.
McGeeney never complains about referee's directly, he will complain about inconsistency and the lack of accountability for errors they make. Referee's are there to adjudicate on the crucial decisions that is why they were appointed in the first place and too many times this season they have got it wrong.
The public and the media want better standards of refereeing, there is no bandwagon or public support of 'Poor Kildare'. You need to pull your head out of your arse and realise that the standard of refereeing has declined to desperate levels, they haven't kept pace with the modern approach and are making too many decisions from behind the play of the game.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 02, 2011, 12:15:44 PM
QuoteMcGeeney didn't complain that Kildare should have beaten when they got a bad decision given in their favour against Meath
Even the most ardent Meath realised that decision would not have affected the dynamic of the game to such an extent that they would have won the game if it was allowed stand, stop trying put a revisionist spin on it to suit your agenda. Kildare won by 6 points pulling up.
Quote
He didn't complain when Callaghan was allowed to take eleven steps to score a goal against Down, or that the referee allowed them to play six and a half minutes extra time when three had been allocated
Over-carrying happens in every game, some get called some don't, blatant square balls don't happen every game. Considering the amount of time-wasting Down did and all the hullabaloo over the last free 6 and a half minutes was probably fair. I notice you didn't counter anything to Alan Smith's perfectly legitimate point that was disallowed in the same game
Quote
He didn't complain about all the fouls they got away with on Bernard Brogan
More revisionism to suit your agenda.
McGeeney never complains about referee's directly, he will complain about inconsistency and the lack of accountability for errors they make. Referee's are there to adjudicate on the crucial decisions that is why they were appointed in the first place and too many times this season they have got it wrong.
The public and the media want better standards of refereeing, there is no bandwagon or public support of 'Poor Kildare'. You need to pull your head out of your arse and realise that the standard of refereeing has declined to desperate levels, they haven't kept pace with the modern approach and are making too many decisions from behind the play of the game.
As a county that has suffered similarly at the hands of disgraceful refereeing decisions (namely from a small little man from Armagh) I have a certain amount of sympathy for Kildare. i still to this day cannot understand how the great man didnt get a penalty against Cork last year. Not to mention the penalty Seanie Buckley should have had in the same match. I could go one but it will only put a strain on my brain
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 02, 2011, 12:15:44 PM
Over-carrying happens in every game, some get called some don't, blatant square balls don't happen every game. Considering the amount of time-wasting Down did and all the hullabaloo over the last free 6 and a half minutes was probably fair. I notice you didn't counter anything to Alan Smith's perfectly legitimate point that was disallowed in the same game
Firstly, for Alan Smiths shot, I was right in line with it and the umpire, the umpire was 100% correct, the ball was wide.
As for your illegal goal, Oh I see, that's why Kildare are so hard done by? I didn't understand that you are allowed to score a completely illegal goal because your goal was scored by over carrying. I didn't realise that the rules don't need to be applied equally to all cases. Clearly if it a rule broken that allows a Kildare goal then it isn't an important rule and doesn't matter, but if it a rule broken that allows a goal against you then it is terrible and an offence to all right minded people.
Now catch a grip of yourself, if you get a goal given against you because a player was not pulled up for a technical offence and then you get given a goal because your player was not pulled up for a technical offence it is the same thing exactly. And goals scored by over carrying eleven steps DO NOT happen in every game. Stop talking foolish nonsense, trying to imply that one is worse than the other.
Quit with the bleeding heart attitude.
Coldrick gave a great display of referring on Saturday apart from the one obvious exception. You couldn't even hold that decision against him, he simply guessed wrong. The square ball rule is unenforceable as is and the solution isn't the one from the league last year that is being lauded by the buckos on TSG. That too is equally unenforceable. There was one other decision that I thought Coldrick got horribly wrong towards the end of extra time when Smith (I think) looked to have being fouled. However another camera angle on TSG showed it clearly wasn't a foul so well done again Mr. Coldrick.
Sat was one of the worst halves of football followed by sheer compulsive viewing. You know a match is good when the wife ends up plonking herself on the couch to watch it. Kildare must feel they're cursed but they didn't help their cause by playing Rob Kelly so far from goal. Thought he should have been pulled around the 50th minute but he was still there in the second half of extra time, much more effective inside. Neil McGee gave the best display at full back I've seen this year and I've never seen anyone so exhausted after a match as Karl Lacey. Some fantastic points from both teams and what a winner from Kevin Cassidy, I'd have loved to have taken in the replay along with the Dublin Tyrone game this Sat but that was as good a score to win it as you will see.
I thought it was poor form from both managements regarding the newspaper comments, Kildare shouldn't have done it and Donegal shouldn't have responded. McGuinness should have followed Cody's example in 07 where he didn't acknowledge Loughnane's pre match comments about Kilkenny slapping the oppositions hands and their savagery. It was only when Loughnane repeated his comments before the final and the AI was won that Cody blew his top.
I would agree that by and large David Coldrick did a good job, I would disagree with the difficulty he had on the square ball, it was an easy decision to allow the goal, even from 40 yards it was never a square ball. That said Geezer and Co need only look to themselves for a reason for their defeat. Donegal should never have been close enough for that disallowed goal to matter. Donegal have good players despite what their system would suggest, you fail to put them away at your peril...a bit like Armagh when McGeeney was playing...touch of irony eh?
QuoteFirstly, for Alan Smiths shot, I was right in line with it and the umpire, the umpire was 100% correct, the ball was wide.
You're blind then, every TV angle showed conclusively it was over the bar and you are 100% wrong.
You will see dozens if incidents of over-carrying in any one game, you will not see dozens of square balls that is the subtle difference. The outcome of the over-carry is irrelevant in this context Down players over carried in that game as well, how many illegal square ball goals did Kildare score?
I have yet to see any Kildare fan profess a bleeding heart attitude, we know we're not good enough to win an All-Ireland and while we rue our bad luck we don't blame it. Kildare fans live in reality you live in a bubble and believe your opinion is absolute fact.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 02, 2011, 02:58:05 PM
QuoteFirstly, for Alan Smiths shot, I was right in line with it and the umpire, the umpire was 100% correct, the ball was wide.
You're blind then, every TV angle showed conclusively it was over the bar and you are 100% wrong.
You will see dozens if incidents of over-carrying in any one game, you will not see dozens of square balls that is the subtle difference. The outcome of the over-carry is irrelevant in this context Down players over carried in that game as well, how many illegal square ball goals did Kildare score?
I have yet to see any Kildare fan profess a bleeding heart attitude, we know we're not good enough to win an All-Ireland and while we rue our bad luck we don't blame it. Kildare fans live in reality you live in a bubble and believe your opinion is absolute fact.
What sort of bubble do you live in with a statement like that? In this context you were allowed a goal. That is about as far from irrelevant as can be imagined. In keeping with your own attitude, how many goals were scored where the scorer took eleven steps? Oh yeah that's right just the one, NOT DOZENS! Catch a grip, you were allowed a goal that should not have stood because of a technical offence. It is a simple as that. Down scored an illegal goal, Kildare scored an illegal goal. Neither goal should have been allowed. Seriously, catch yourself on.
What is it in your fantasy world? All rules are equal but some rules are more equal than others?????
You need to realise the world is not black and white, over-carrying while a technical offence is far more open to referee interpretation than a player standing in a square waiting for a ball to arrive hence you will get plenty of over carrying incidents in any match at any level, Down got away with some Kildare got away with some, O'Callaghan was been fouled the ref played an advantage and he happened to score a goal the consequences shouldn't matter as a ref will always allow incidents of over-carrying in every game. Jesus you swear Down lost the game with your whinging.
If you were a ref I bet you'd be a pedantic p***k. Not that I'm call you a p***k.
Why bother Dinny?
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 02, 2011, 03:23:46 PM
Why bother Dinny?
I know I know, I'm getting dragged down to his level and getting hammered on experience.
Typical flourbags.
Always causing rows.
Suprised Paddy Heaney's 'against the breeze' column in today's Irish News hasn't got a mention. A bit anti-geezer for my liking, i was a bit taken aback by it tbh.
Quote from: bennydorano on August 02, 2011, 05:18:27 PM
Suprised Paddy Heaney's 'against the breeze' column in today's Irish News hasn't got a mention. A bit anti-geezer for my liking, i was a bit taken aback by it tbh.
Actually for once I thought Heaney had a point and his assessment was reasonable and balanced.
Apples how is a suggestion that Kildare deserve better leadership than Geezer provided at the weekend "reasonable and balanced"? I thought it was a fairly cheap shot myself....he got a dig in about a comment that Geezer made after they beat Derry about the six day turnaround when Geezer went on record saying it was a disgrace that Derry were faced with that situation.
Geezer showed true class in his post match comments and doesn't deserve to be the subject of such one eyed articles like Heaney wrote.
I have to say I hadn't read it like that.
It was quite a personalised and inconsistent treatment of mcgeeney I thought. Many managers complain about refs and don't get that focus. Sure John Brennan wanted to meet Deegan to discuss the Ulster final :D As for planting stories in the press, well ahem, where would Paddy and the other journos be without that? He's just jealous it wasn't leaked to the Irish News.
I missed the Irish News yesterday.
Can anyone post up Heaney's article?