Dún na nGall v Cill Dara

[tbrick18]

I was disappointed in the ref yesterday - he had a superb season last year , but has been a bit under par so far this year.
I know I harp on about hawkeye and video technology. The more games go on this season, the more I believe this is required.
OK I didnt have the best view of the Kildare square ball goal, but I thought the goal should have stood but yes, there is the question whether OConors foot was in the square. Video replays would answer this continual problem. Donegal and kildare both fouled cynically and if the ref had pulled this up early on, the game would have been a more flowing contest as yellow carded players would know thy couldnt pull or third man tackle/block a run all through the game as it then turned out.
Not trying to be hard on Donegal, but there were two scores they received that should have been frees out plus a free could have been awarded in the last kildare attack before Cassidy's winning score - the ref had been giving them all day long - an easier free was given to Kildare to equalise just before full time.
On the other hand that full time equaliser and a few other scores were gifted to kildare when they were not deserved. Kildare's first point came from in a john doyle free going wide and OConnor illegally going outside the playing area to jump back in and fist the ball to Flaherty to score.Yes ref anorak time, but that point should not have stood. Later illegal scores from a free (after Sweeney played the ball on the ground)
and that end of FT equaliser to me make it actually even - both teams ended up with an equal amount of incorrect scores for/against them that balances out equally.
That said, Kildare's general play for mean should have meant they won the game. It shows that posession doesnt always count for feck all in sport.
Credit to Donegal for staying in the game while being completely wiped out - though their giving the ball away so cheaply must worry McGuinness.
The ref didnt mean to make these mistakes but a second ref/video ref should be implemented to assist him and to give teams the fairest possible chance - but the ref and refs of all future games MUST address cynical fouling (not to mention the bit of gamesmanship and diving done by both teams as well as the feigning inj to eat up time) if we are to eradicate this systematic persistent cynical fouling out of the game.

I actually think Donegal didnt play as they could yesterday in that their full forward line didnt perform at all...if they had I think Donegal would have won well. Even in saying that, I think they should have won it in normal time.
The ref did make some balls ups alright....they probably did even themselves out though for both teams. The Kildare goal should have stood but then Kildare did get some soft frees towards the end of normal time to level the game.
I think Kildare are completely overrated. Just look at the Derry game....had the goal been allowed there when we were on top, we could well have went on to win even missing the players we were. they can score when they're not tightly marked, but most county teams can do this. Derry scored 13 against a blanket defence in normal time without 2 star forwards and without really playing for the last 20-25 mins of the game. That's not the sign of a good team for me. Kildare are average at best IMO.
Donegal remind me of Armagh in '02 and Tyrone in '03. I think they can win the AI and I think the more they play the more cohesive their attack will become. I believe Tyrone will beat Dublin, and Donegal will beat Tyrone again taking them to the final....then who knows what would happen.
As for the cynical fouling, Kildare are as cynical as Donegal. It's part and parcel of the Blanket game. It's not nice to watch but as long as it gets results teams will keep doing it. Kerry are also a cynical side remember and wait till you see Dublin and tyrone next week.
It happens all over.
The game was very exciting and as much as I cant listen to that wee ar*e McHugh, I'd like to see Donegal go on. I think they will get better in each game...as IMO Donegal didnt play as well yesterday as they did in the Ulster final.

[Hardy]

Fantastic display of defending, disciplined tackling and winning the ball in the tackle by both teams.

[tbrick18]

That was always my understanding of Extra Time too Hardy....I dont think there's any wrong doing.

[J70]

You're the ref, but its looks pretty clear to me Lynchboy. Its three subs DURING extra time. Any fifteen from the list of 26 given to the ref before the game can START extra time. Don't see any grounds for an objection there as, if I remember correctly, McFadden and Rafferty started extra time.

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2011_Part_2.pdf

[Craigyhill Terror]

Rafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min

They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.

sorry meant to clarify - during game
Murphy and E McGee on for McBrearty and mcgrath 27th min
McElhinney for Gallagher HT
Molloy for Hegarty 41st min
Toye for McFadden 58
thats 5 subs in normal time
the subs used prior to ET would be classed as substitutions availed of for the extra period.
so Donegal only had one sub available to them in ET thereafter.
The cute hoors got away with it as they did it at the break.
The officials are at fault, and compounds a bad day at the office for them !


unless of course I am wrong and you are indeed allowed 10 substitutions and subs during interval between FT and ET are allowed en masse. I dont think so though....

The changes made between the end of normal time and extra-time do not count. If you had a squad of 30 you could start a totally different 15 to begin extra-time and you could still make three subs during it.

2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.
(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players on
the List submitted to the Referee prior to the
game, except as provided for in (d) below, may
start Extra Time.
(c) The Referee shall be given a List of the 15
players starting Extra Time, or a Note clearly
indicating the changes made from that of
the finishing team in Normal Time. This List/
Note may be in single form but shall otherwise
comply with the provisions of Rule 2.5 - List of
Players.
(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.
(e) Substitutions/Temporary Substitutions shall
be allowed during the playing of Extra Time as
outlined in Rule 2.4(ii) and (iii).
(f) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued in Normal Time
shall carry over into Extra Time

thanks for that
my rule book that I was reding when you posted does not contain rule 2.6 !!

Still from my reading of this, rule 2.6 in conjunction with rule 2.5 do not clarify whether these changes draw from the further 3 substitutions allowed in inj or as you indicate, the ability to change the entire XV players.
the interpretation could be that the list the ref is given will be the same XV with/without substitutions. It does not say anywhere that this could be a completely new xv set of players (from the listed 26/30)

The key phrase is "any fifteen players may start Extra Time" which is included without any reference to substitutions, so that suggests it's a clean slate but you're right, the rule book shouldn't suggest things, it should clearly define them

[bennydorano]

I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times.  I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was.  Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.

Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side.  It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further.  That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty.  They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.

Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.

Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.

Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.

As it should have.

Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.

A game takes on a different dynamic once a score is given, unless the ref was going to blow for full-time straight after the 'goal'?  Donegal scored 4 points to win the game in extra time after being level at FT and down 3 in ET, so they were obviously well capable of clawing back a lead. To say Kildare would have won if their 'goal' had counted is an exercise in arithmetic that doesn't take into account the plethora of things that can happen in any game and once again it's the sort of short-sighted(shite) analysis that I'd expect from yourself. 

I also doubt you were at the game.

With respect how would you know if I was at the game?  . Have you got a webcam on me?

An imbecile could say Donegal werent coming back from a 6 point deficit. At that juncture of the game Donegal's efforts at scoring resembled watching the Faroe Islands trying to score at soccer.

The disallowed goal woke Donegal up for some proverbial reason and got Mc Guinness to actually send on a few forwards like Christy Toye ( a class player) in deference to some of the others we had ahead of him. Donegal decided to commit to attack for once.

The system was again shown up in the final 10 minutes of normal time when Donegal committed to defence- didnt win one breaking ball for the entire period and against a more competent forward line would have lost the game.

this system doesnt work and Donegal play their best football when in attack mode. Its depressing to watch a team with a lot of very good footballers play in such a negative fashion.

You'd have to admire lads like Lacey, Cassidy and Magee for theri defensive qualities though- they were brilliant yesterday and won them the game.

Mainly because I really think you are an absolute chancer who is full of shite.  You also posted on here at 6.36pm with no mobile icon, so that too.

How you can say 'the system doesn't work' is absolutely comical - take a look at where Donegal were last year and were they are now and think about what you've actually written.  You also seem to miss that this is the start of something not the end product - a bit like the Dubs last year (your misguided and misjudged ramblings on Dublin last year still bring a smile to my face).Your 'analysis' is regularly awful, I've rarely read anything you have written and agreed with or thought it mildly insightful.  Another poster who says what he sees without putting much thought into it or looking at the bigger picture.

1- I live approx 10 mins from Croke Park.

2- I've been right about the Dubs every year so far. Unlike you who is nearly always wrong. I think I'll nickname you the Cooler.

3- I think Donegal are singularly awful team to watch playing and its my democratic right to say so. I admire some of their defenders like Lacey, Magee and Cassidy who are absolute warriors who would grace any team. Those three lads won that game for Donegal yesterday. Lacey's display is probably the most selfless display I've seen for about 20 years on a GAA pitch. It was Herculean in nature.

Its terrible to watch players like Murphy and Mc Brearty reduced to spectators. They may as well have been sitting in the premium seats beside me yesterday. The system utterly failed for most of that game. A bad decision and some poor shooting cost Kildare the game. Kildare continually get the wrong players in the best shooting positions.

Kildare have a number of good young forwards I've seen playing on their minor teams in the last few years. Its a mystery to me why we've seen so little of them so far. Especially when they are clocking up 15 wides on average per game.

Without getting into Columbo territory: 1- So does that explain your post at 6.36 when the game was due to start at 6 , if you are to be believed at all it means in all likelihood it would have been 7ish before you got into CP.  I smell a rather large rodent.  It really doesn't matter thou but why not just say you watched it on TV? which would bring me back to my original assertion that you are full of shite.
2- Lie, you entertained the whole board with your abuse of Gilroy and comical misreading of the Dubs progress.
3- Correct, the fact that you cannot see the Dubs of last year there thou is strange, although to be fair you did give them absolute dogs abuse for their style, but singularly failed to understand what Gilroy was trying to achieve and gave him no slack whatsoever.  I guess you prefer style over substance, which would pretty much mirror the Dub's problems for the past decade pre-Pat.

[lynchbhoy]

The key phrase is "any fifteen players may start Extra Time" which is included without any reference to substitutions, so that suggests it's a clean slate but you're right, the rule book shouldn't suggest things, it should clearly define them

for me and to close this completely this is still too ambiguous.
a certain frank murphy would destroy this if Cork were in Kildare's position.
Yes any XV player can start ET, but it doesnt say that these should or should not be the ones that finished normal time - only players that were listed on the original 26/30 player teamsheet- BUT not any player that was sent off.
(there will pobbily also need to be a line in the rule book stating that this applies for both a straight red and two yellow card sending offs ).
I know this is clutching at straws and nit picking what would seem like straightforward interpretation, but I think we all know that certain GAA men (ahem stand forward mr murphy) have fought against such tenuous terms and actually won !!

I cant see any objection being upheld though. (unless of course the disallowed goal weighs heavily on the minds of a few)

[INDIANA]

I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times.  I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was.  Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.

Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side.  It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further.  That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty.  They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.

Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.

Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.

Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.

As it should have.

Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.

A game takes on a different dynamic once a score is given, unless the ref was going to blow for full-time straight after the 'goal'?  Donegal scored 4 points to win the game in extra time after being level at FT and down 3 in ET, so they were obviously well capable of clawing back a lead. To say Kildare would have won if their 'goal' had counted is an exercise in arithmetic that doesn't take into account the plethora of things that can happen in any game and once again it's the sort of short-sighted(shite) analysis that I'd expect from yourself. 

I also doubt you were at the game.

With respect how would you know if I was at the game?  . Have you got a webcam on me?

An imbecile could say Donegal werent coming back from a 6 point deficit. At that juncture of the game Donegal's efforts at scoring resembled watching the Faroe Islands trying to score at soccer.

The disallowed goal woke Donegal up for some proverbial reason and got Mc Guinness to actually send on a few forwards like Christy Toye ( a class player) in deference to some of the others we had ahead of him. Donegal decided to commit to attack for once.

The system was again shown up in the final 10 minutes of normal time when Donegal committed to defence- didnt win one breaking ball for the entire period and against a more competent forward line would have lost the game.

this system doesnt work and Donegal play their best football when in attack mode. Its depressing to watch a team with a lot of very good footballers play in such a negative fashion.

You'd have to admire lads like Lacey, Cassidy and Magee for theri defensive qualities though- they were brilliant yesterday and won them the game.

Mainly because I really think you are an absolute chancer who is full of shite.  You also posted on here at 6.36pm with no mobile icon, so that too.

How you can say 'the system doesn't work' is absolutely comical - take a look at where Donegal were last year and were they are now and think about what you've actually written.  You also seem to miss that this is the start of something not the end product - a bit like the Dubs last year (your misguided and misjudged ramblings on Dublin last year still bring a smile to my face).Your 'analysis' is regularly awful, I've rarely read anything you have written and agreed with or thought it mildly insightful.  Another poster who says what he sees without putting much thought into it or looking at the bigger picture.

1- I live approx 10 mins from Croke Park.

2- I've been right about the Dubs every year so far. Unlike you who is nearly always wrong. I think I'll nickname you the Cooler.

3- I think Donegal are singularly awful team to watch playing and its my democratic right to say so. I admire some of their defenders like Lacey, Magee and Cassidy who are absolute warriors who would grace any team. Those three lads won that game for Donegal yesterday. Lacey's display is probably the most selfless display I've seen for about 20 years on a GAA pitch. It was Herculean in nature.

Its terrible to watch players like Murphy and Mc Brearty reduced to spectators. They may as well have been sitting in the premium seats beside me yesterday. The system utterly failed for most of that game. A bad decision and some poor shooting cost Kildare the game. Kildare continually get the wrong players in the best shooting positions.

Kildare have a number of good young forwards I've seen playing on their minor teams in the last few years. Its a mystery to me why we've seen so little of them so far. Especially when they are clocking up 15 wides on average per game.

Without getting into Columbo territory: 1- So does that explain your post at 6.36 when the game was due to start at 6 , if you are to be believed at all it means in all likelihood it would have been 7ish before you got into CP.  I smell a rather large rodent.  It really doesn't matter thou but why not just say you watched it on TV? which would bring me back to my original assertion that you are full of shite.
2- Lie, you entertained the whole board with your abuse of Gilroy and comical misreading of the Dubs progress.
3- Correct, the fact that you cannot see the Dubs of last year there thou is strange, although to be fair you did give them absolute dogs abuse for their style, but singularly failed to understand what Gilroy was trying to achieve and gave him no slack whatsoever.  I guess you prefer style over substance, which would pretty much mirror the Dub's problems for the past decade pre-Pat.

Sorry I resent the remark I abused anyone. pat Gilroy is a club mate of mine. I defy to find any post where I abused the manager.

If you cant find one- which you wont. It only underlnes the bluffer you are.

So go ahead and find a post where I abused Pat Gilroy Columbo.

Make sure you understand the term abuse- you pratt.

[Hardy]

That was always my understanding of Extra Time too Hardy....I dont think there's any wrong doing.

Sorry about the confusion tbrick. I deleted my reference to ET subs when I saw it had already been dealt with.

[Hardy]

What's ambiguous about the phrase "any fifteen"?

[bennydorano]

Fair enough point regarding use of the word 'abuse', stick would have been a better choice, but the jist of my post remains unaltered - your full of shite. 

[INDIANA]

Fair enough point regarding use of the word 'abuse', stick would have been a better choice, but the jist of my post remains unaltered - your full of shite.

Thanks you've now been outed as a bluffer and a spoofer.

[bennydorano]

Semantics chief, another thing you dont quite grasp by the looks of it. Clown.

[lynchbhoy]

What's ambiguous about the phrase "any fifteen"?

IMO it's ambiguous as it says any 15
A. From the panel of 26/30
B. But not any player that has been sent off
It does not clarify that the any 15 players may not have finished the game in normal time or may nit have featured in the game at all up until that point.

If you know how many challenges at county board level there are for similar things over wordi g etc that are upheld , you'd realize that the wording here is far from watertight and the likes of brolly regularly have field days when  they used to represent players/clubs on such matters.
Not sure what happens these days with cc cc cc in place!

But the most harmless/obvious of 'rules/wording' are often ex

[Canalman]

Belated congrats to both teams on a fascinating game to watch. Initially hoped that Kildare would win, however I have to say that I was unimpressed at their cynical fouling at the end of extra time. Contrasting views on their defeat as if Dublin were not to win AI I would love to see Kildare win it, but would have been gutted if they beat us on the way (obviously a real "what if" scenario with Tyrone ready to pounce.)

Honestly think that Kildare will be a huge force in the next 5 years at senior and underage level. They seem at long last to be getting the Dublin satellite towns in the county involved in their underage teams and the old sniffy approach towards these clubs seems to have been sidelined. Believe you me these boys will win AIs shortly.

Maybe a change of manager might freshen things up,  even though McG has done a very good job, his raising of expetations in the county might be his undoing.