Dún na nGall v Cill Dara

[Dinny Breen]

Rafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min

They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.

[lynchbhoy]

Rafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min

They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.

sorry meant to clarify - during game
Murphy and E McGee on for McBrearty and mcgrath 27th min
McElhinney for Gallagher HT
Molloy for Hegarty 41st min
Toye for McFadden 58
thats 5 subs in normal time
the subs used prior to ET would be classed as substitutions availed of for the extra period.
so Donegal only had one sub available to them in ET thereafter.
The cute hoors got away with it as they did it at the break.
The officials are at fault, and compounds a bad day at the office for them !


unless of course I am wrong and you are indeed allowed 10 substitutions and subs during interval between FT and ET are allowed en masse. I dont think so though....

[mckieran]

is there an objection coming from Kildare....?

that would be fun!

[J70]

I wouldn't mind but poor Rafferty had an absolute stinker for the ten minutes he was on!

If Kildare do object (assuming Lynchboy's analysis is correct), what's the outcome should they win? Replay or forfeiture?

[Denn Forever]

Is extra time not deemed a new game?  If you have had a man sent off in normal time, you start ET with 15?  Therefore you are alowed to bring on 3 subs.

[lynchbhoy]

I wouldn't mind but poor Rafferty had an absolute stinker for the ten minutes he was on!

If Kildare do object (assuming Lynchboy's analysis is correct), what's the outcome should they win? Replay or forfeiture?

he did which is a pity as he was great earlier on in the season.
if Kildare object and it is upheld then its a replay at worst for Donegal.

~Denn - thats the part I am trying to figure out. must go upstairs and dig out the rule book.
It is classed as a new game, and a team can bring a man on to get back to 15 men. But I just dont know if this can be done by replacing men and that this does or does not count as substitutions.

initially I'd have thought it did, but that you can bring your team back to 15, this would be a point argued by Donegal , as it is classed as a new game.

this game is now providing more entertainment after the final whistle  !

[Craigyhill Terror]

Rafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min

They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.

sorry meant to clarify - during game
Murphy and E McGee on for McBrearty and mcgrath 27th min
McElhinney for Gallagher HT
Molloy for Hegarty 41st min
Toye for McFadden 58
thats 5 subs in normal time
the subs used prior to ET would be classed as substitutions availed of for the extra period.
so Donegal only had one sub available to them in ET thereafter.
The cute hoors got away with it as they did it at the break.
The officials are at fault, and compounds a bad day at the office for them !


unless of course I am wrong and you are indeed allowed 10 substitutions and subs during interval between FT and ET are allowed en masse. I dont think so though....

The changes made between the end of normal time and extra-time do not count. If you had a squad of 30 you could start a totally different 15 to begin extra-time and you could still make three subs during it.

2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.
(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players on
the List submitted to the Referee prior to the
game, except as provided for in (d) below, may
start Extra Time.
(c) The Referee shall be given a List of the 15
players starting Extra Time, or a Note clearly
indicating the changes made from that of
the finishing team in Normal Time. This List/
Note may be in single form but shall otherwise
comply with the provisions of Rule 2.5 - List of
Players.
(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.
(e) Substitutions/Temporary Substitutions shall
be allowed during the playing of Extra Time as
outlined in Rule 2.4(ii) and (iii).
(f) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued in Normal Time
shall carry over into Extra Time

[Donnellys Hollow]

First things first, heartiest congratulations to Donegal. Your style of football isn't the easiest on the eye but it's working for you. The Donegal support yesterday was a credit to the county.

I can't be arsed reading through the whole thread here but I'm sure Tomás Connor's 'goal' is discussed ad nauseum. Yet another Kildare match hinged on a square ball decision so what's new there? Some have gone with us and more have gone against us (Cussen '08, Coulter '10) but there isn't much point in cribbing about it. We lost that match in the first half of normal time. We seemed totally dominant yet we only went in two points up. We probably should have been six up and it would have forced Donegal to open up. Extra time was heartbreaking but it would be grossly unfair to say that Kildare lacked the mentality to close out the game. They were simply dead on their feet during the closing stages with the four games in consecutive weeks catching up with them.

Without naming names, it didn't happen for certain Kildare players yesterday which makes it all the more disappointing. I'm sure The Sunday Game will probably twist the knife tonight with their 'lack of natural forwards' thesis but that doesn't bother me in the slightest. Having followed this Kildare team up and down the country, I know where we are lacking. What them players don't lack though is honesty and heart and for that they deserve great plaudits.

I wasn't hopeful of a good run this year given all the injuries so there are reasons to be optimistic for the future. Hopefully Dermot Earley and Peter Kelly will be back next year. A full league campaign would also do wonders for the likes of Mikey Conway and Daryl Flynn who were both superb yesterday. Mikey has a touch of class and a level of skill that few Kildare players possess and Flynner is simply a warrior. I don't know how he kept going yesterday because that must be only his sixth or seventh match in twelve months. From 1 to 9 we are probably as good as there is in the country but we could do with one or two of the younger lads coming through up front to add a bit more creativity rather than functionality. Whether someone like Dowling, Fogarty or Mulhall are capable of really stepping up, remains to be seen. Without wishing to sound too pesimistic, I suspect Kildare's great white forward hope is plying his trade for Collingwood in Australia rather than with JTB.

[amallon]

You have to feel for Kildare this morning they were hard done by.  Down got the rub of the green against them last year with Benny's goal and then to have perfectly good goal disallowed yesterday must be shattering.  Depending on the character of the team and manager events like yesterday can have one of two outcomes.  Kildare will disappear or come back stronger next year.  I think the later will happen if McGeeney stays on board.

Donegal deserve massive credit for the character they showed yesterday there were a few times where they looked dead and buried but kept coming back for more.  Kevin Cassidy epitomised their performance, he hit a bad wide in the dying stages but was big enough to stand up and take the winner when the chance came along.  Maybe he was thinking time was up and there would be a replay if he missed so long as he put the ball dead but it still took some balls.

Very enjoyable game even though the football wasn't that great.  Donegal will be hard beat by whoever they play.  Of all the teams left I think Cork would give them the biggest problems due to their physical size and strength.  Donegal should have no fear of any of the other teams.

[bennydorano]

I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times.  I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was.  Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.

Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side.  It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further.  That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty.  They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.

Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.

Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.

Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.

As it should have.

Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.

A game takes on a different dynamic once a score is given, unless the ref was going to blow for full-time straight after the 'goal'?  Donegal scored 4 points to win the game in extra time after being level at FT and down 3 in ET, so they were obviously well capable of clawing back a lead. To say Kildare would have won if their 'goal' had counted is an exercise in arithmetic that doesn't take into account the plethora of things that can happen in any game and once again it's the sort of short-sighted(shite) analysis that I'd expect from yourself. 

I also doubt you were at the game.

With respect how would you know if I was at the game?  . Have you got a webcam on me?

An imbecile could say Donegal werent coming back from a 6 point deficit. At that juncture of the game Donegal's efforts at scoring resembled watching the Faroe Islands trying to score at soccer.

The disallowed goal woke Donegal up for some proverbial reason and got Mc Guinness to actually send on a few forwards like Christy Toye ( a class player) in deference to some of the others we had ahead of him. Donegal decided to commit to attack for once.

The system was again shown up in the final 10 minutes of normal time when Donegal committed to defence- didnt win one breaking ball for the entire period and against a more competent forward line would have lost the game.

this system doesnt work and Donegal play their best football when in attack mode. Its depressing to watch a team with a lot of very good footballers play in such a negative fashion.

You'd have to admire lads like Lacey, Cassidy and Magee for theri defensive qualities though- they were brilliant yesterday and won them the game.

Mainly because I really think you are an absolute chancer who is full of shite.  You also posted on here at 6.36pm with no mobile icon, so that too.

How you can say 'the system doesn't work' is absolutely comical - take a look at where Donegal were last year and were they are now and think about what you've actually written.  You also seem to miss that this is the start of something not the end product - a bit like the Dubs last year (your misguided and misjudged ramblings on Dublin last year still bring a smile to my face).Your 'analysis' is regularly awful, I've rarely read anything you have written and agreed with or thought it mildly insightful.  Another poster who says what he sees without putting much thought into it or looking at the bigger picture.

[J70]

Rafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min

They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.

sorry meant to clarify - during game
Murphy and E McGee on for McBrearty and mcgrath 27th min
McElhinney for Gallagher HT
Molloy for Hegarty 41st min
Toye for McFadden 58
thats 5 subs in normal time
the subs used prior to ET would be classed as substitutions availed of for the extra period.
so Donegal only had one sub available to them in ET thereafter.
The cute hoors got away with it as they did it at the break.
The officials are at fault, and compounds a bad day at the office for them !


unless of course I am wrong and you are indeed allowed 10 substitutions and subs during interval between FT and ET are allowed en masse. I dont think so though....

The changes made between the end of normal time and extra-time do not count. If you had a squad of 30 you could start a totally different 15 to begin extra-time and you could still make three subs during it.

2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.
(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players on
the List submitted to the Referee prior to the
game, except as provided for in (d) below, may
start Extra Time.
(c) The Referee shall be given a List of the 15
players starting Extra Time, or a Note clearly
indicating the changes made from that of
the finishing team in Normal Time. This List/
Note may be in single form but shall otherwise
comply with the provisions of Rule 2.5 - List of
Players.
(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.
(e) Substitutions/Temporary Substitutions shall
be allowed during the playing of Extra Time as
outlined in Rule 2.4(ii) and (iii).
(f) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued in Normal Time
shall carry over into Extra Time

Well that seems to clear that up! Thanks!

[Denn Forever]

If there is any justce, McGrillen No. 2 or 4 on the All St5ar team.

[INDIANA]

I really enjoyed that, second half on was class IMO, the intensity reminded me of the Armagh v Tyrone 2005 semi at times.  I watched it on BBC 2 and Sky+ RTE's coverage - which failed so I didn't hear their take on it at all, BBC weren't pushing it as a great game - but I really thought it was.  Lady luck probably deserted Kildare again but 3 or 4 years in row with excuses probably means there is something missing there? I think McGeeney will go as well, I doubt he can bring them on any further.

Fair play to Donegal, they will be really hard to talk to in the coming years as the turnaround within 1 season is unreal, if they remain committed they will develop into a serious side.  It can be hard to watch at times, but it's all about getting the defence right and building from there, I fully expect that they'll become more expansive as they gel further.  That game alone will bring them on a bagful. Cassidy's winner was a thing of beauty.  They've no reason to fear the winner of next week's game.

Lady Luck didnt desert Kildare they were done out of it by the officials.

Thats the bottom line. O Connor's goal stands its game over.

Cant take anything away from Donegal- great comeback in extra time but they were beaten had O Connor's goal stood.

As it should have.

Kildare arent good enough to win the all-ireland but they were good enough to win today. And they would have had the goal stood.

A game takes on a different dynamic once a score is given, unless the ref was going to blow for full-time straight after the 'goal'?  Donegal scored 4 points to win the game in extra time after being level at FT and down 3 in ET, so they were obviously well capable of clawing back a lead. To say Kildare would have won if their 'goal' had counted is an exercise in arithmetic that doesn't take into account the plethora of things that can happen in any game and once again it's the sort of short-sighted(shite) analysis that I'd expect from yourself. 

I also doubt you were at the game.

With respect how would you know if I was at the game?  . Have you got a webcam on me?

An imbecile could say Donegal werent coming back from a 6 point deficit. At that juncture of the game Donegal's efforts at scoring resembled watching the Faroe Islands trying to score at soccer.

The disallowed goal woke Donegal up for some proverbial reason and got Mc Guinness to actually send on a few forwards like Christy Toye ( a class player) in deference to some of the others we had ahead of him. Donegal decided to commit to attack for once.

The system was again shown up in the final 10 minutes of normal time when Donegal committed to defence- didnt win one breaking ball for the entire period and against a more competent forward line would have lost the game.

this system doesnt work and Donegal play their best football when in attack mode. Its depressing to watch a team with a lot of very good footballers play in such a negative fashion.

You'd have to admire lads like Lacey, Cassidy and Magee for theri defensive qualities though- they were brilliant yesterday and won them the game.

Mainly because I really think you are an absolute chancer who is full of shite.  You also posted on here at 6.36pm with no mobile icon, so that too.

How you can say 'the system doesn't work' is absolutely comical - take a look at where Donegal were last year and were they are now and think about what you've actually written.  You also seem to miss that this is the start of something not the end product - a bit like the Dubs last year (your misguided and misjudged ramblings on Dublin last year still bring a smile to my face).Your 'analysis' is regularly awful, I've rarely read anything you have written and agreed with or thought it mildly insightful.  Another poster who says what he sees without putting much thought into it or looking at the bigger picture.

1- I live approx 10 mins from Croke Park.

2- I've been right about the Dubs every year so far. Unlike you who is nearly always wrong. I think I'll nickname you the Cooler.

3- I think Donegal are singularly awful team to watch playing and its my democratic right to say so. I admire some of their defenders like Lacey, Magee and Cassidy who are absolute warriors who would grace any team. Those three lads won that game for Donegal yesterday. Lacey's display is probably the most selfless display I've seen for about 20 years on a GAA pitch. It was Herculean in nature.

Its terrible to watch players like Murphy and Mc Brearty reduced to spectators. They may as well have been sitting in the premium seats beside me yesterday. The system utterly failed for most of that game. A bad decision and some poor shooting cost Kildare the game. Kildare continually get the wrong players in the best shooting positions.

Kildare have a number of good young forwards I've seen playing on their minor teams in the last few years. Its a mystery to me why we've seen so little of them so far. Especially when they are clocking up 15 wides on average per game.

[lynchbhoy]

Rafferty and McFadden came on for McElhinney and Molloy 70th min

They did happen before extra-time started, if so then no rule broken.

sorry meant to clarify - during game
Murphy and E McGee on for McBrearty and mcgrath 27th min
McElhinney for Gallagher HT
Molloy for Hegarty 41st min
Toye for McFadden 58
thats 5 subs in normal time
the subs used prior to ET would be classed as substitutions availed of for the extra period.
so Donegal only had one sub available to them in ET thereafter.
The cute hoors got away with it as they did it at the break.
The officials are at fault, and compounds a bad day at the office for them !


unless of course I am wrong and you are indeed allowed 10 substitutions and subs during interval between FT and ET are allowed en masse. I dont think so though....

The changes made between the end of normal time and extra-time do not count. If you had a squad of 30 you could start a totally different 15 to begin extra-time and you could still make three subs during it.

2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.
(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players on
the List submitted to the Referee prior to the
game, except as provided for in (d) below, may
start Extra Time.
(c) The Referee shall be given a List of the 15
players starting Extra Time, or a Note clearly
indicating the changes made from that of
the finishing team in Normal Time. This List/
Note may be in single form but shall otherwise
comply with the provisions of Rule 2.5 - List of
Players.
(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.
(e) Substitutions/Temporary Substitutions shall
be allowed during the playing of Extra Time as
outlined in Rule 2.4(ii) and (iii).
(f) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued in Normal Time
shall carry over into Extra Time

thanks for that
my rule book that I was reding when you posted does not contain rule 2.6 !!

Still from my reading of this, rule 2.6 in conjunction with rule 2.5 do not clarify whether these changes draw from the further 3 substitutions allowed in inj or as you indicate, the ability to change the entire XV players.
the interpretation could be that the list the ref is given will be the same XV with/without substitutions. It does not say anywhere that this could be a completely new xv set of players (from the listed 26/30)

[lynchbhoy]

IMO this is a problem with our rule book also - things need to be defined properly so there is no ambiguity - which in this case I still think there is.
For Kildare, I expect that even if they do object, the question and excuse of interepretation will allow Croke park to uphold the result and an objection will fail.
This is what Croke park will want given that a replay would have to be next weekend Kildare need a rest !