Surprised this hasn't been posted already...
QuoteMcCausland slams H-Block event
Sports Minister Nelson McCausland has criticised the staging of a hunger strike commemoration at a GAA ground.
It took place at Galbally, County Tyrone, after a procession on Sunday.
Speaking as a DUP MLA, he said: "It cannot be right that a sports ground should be used for commemorating and celebrating something as offensive as the whole H-Block episode."
Sinn Fein MLA Barry McElduff said there were no alternative venues for the rural, largely republican community.
"We were remembering, not terrorists but inspirational, politically-motivated Irish hunger strikers," said Mr McElduff, who was speaking in a party capacity rather than as chairman of the assembly's culture, arts and leisure committee.
"Many young people are curious to know the story of these hunger strikers who laid down their lives for Irish freedom."
However, Mr McCausland said the event was a breach of the GAA's rule 7a, which states the organisation should be non-party political.
"People will be disappointed to see a sports ground used for such a political event which glorifies Irish republican terrorism," he said.
He added: "The event in Tyrone was a retrograde step and I think it has reinforced division and political sectarianism."
Breach of the GAA's rule 7a carries a penalty of up to 24 weeks' suspension.
A GAA spokesperson said they had no comment to make on the matter.
The parade was staged near the home of IRA hunger striker Martin Hurson, who died in the Maze Prison in July 1981.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8206863.stm
It's a shame yet again that some people have felt it appropriate to use a GAA ground for such activities. And all it does is give the DUP another stick to beat the Association with.
QuoteIt took place at Galbally, County Tyrone, after a procession on Sunday.
I dont understand, what took place? The procession/march is normally the commemoration at these types of events, what took place at the club?
Big Deal
::)
DUP never need much reason to moan anyway
A Club in Down is hosting one of these events, think it is organised by the South Down Graves Association. Thought it strange myself that they were allowing their premises to be used
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 19, 2009, 07:44:33 PM
QuoteIt took place at Galbally, County Tyrone, after a procession on Sunday.
I dont understand, what took place? The procession/march is normally the commemoration at these types of events, what took place at the club?
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=116598
I assume it was the speeches(?)
Quote from: JMohan on August 19, 2009, 07:49:19 PM
Big Deal
::)
Well it is. It's a breach of GAA rules for a start.
Quote from: JMohan on August 19, 2009, 07:49:19 PM
DUP never need much reason to moan anyway
Exactly, so why give them a valid reason.
I'm with you Maguire01, it should never have been used.
Nor should the SDLP have let Alasdair McDonnell complain about it on Radio Ulster this morning. I could have put up a better argument myself.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 19, 2009, 07:44:33 PM
QuoteIt took place at Galbally, County Tyrone, after a procession on Sunday.
I dont understand, what took place? The procession/march is normally the commemoration at these types of events, what took place at the club?
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=116598
I assume it was the speeches(?)
Id be surprised maguire, normally the speeches on these marches would take place at the commemeration plaque, grave or something like that.
Quote from: hardstation on August 19, 2009, 08:38:33 PM
Don't see the big problem. They congregated at the GAA Club/Community centre. Think of the Fr. Ted episode where they hold the fair at "The Field". It's the same as all the other fields but has less rocks.
Tally's couldn't hold the crowd.
Are you sure that's all it was, I remember a kick up about one of these before and it turned out they had just congregated at the club, out on the road, nothing to do with the GAA or the Club.
Quote from: hardstation on August 19, 2009, 08:38:33 PM
Don't see the big problem. They congregated at the GAA Club/Community centre. Think of the Fr. Ted episode where they hold the fair at "The Field". It's the same as all the other fields but has less rocks.
What's the relevance of that comparison? Maybe they should have held the event in a local farmer's field? If so, i'd agree.
And the 'problem' is pretty clear, surely. The GAA club is for the purposes of GAA activities.
Nelson went out of his way to get all offended over this since he refused to attend any GAA event during his time in office months ago
Fact is that the GAA will deal with the club as they see fit. It's a bit rich of him to preach when he has no interest in the GAA
Total against this if it happened within the GAA premises.
So am I DTM
Eight years ago, in August 2001 when thousands marched to, and held a commeration in Casement Park for Bobby Sands and his comrades we had the same moaners out and the same discussion on the old GAA board. If Mr McCausland has a problem then all he has to do is go off and play golf or practice drum beating for the day but like then we have the usual exagerration of what is happening. Some will say nothing has changed, I disagree because on a thread way back I described to Evilgenius that I had no problem working on the Battle of The Boyne site for the Office Of Public Works when our government spent millions, I think 35 million, making a commerative site for the orangemen to celebrate King Billy. If this commeration the one in Galbally that is, was happening on my front lawn I would have no problem so I fail to see how it is such a big issue with GAA men much less Mr Causland, or McCausland or whoever he is. In the end thousands did turn up at Casement and the GAA did the right thing, the left the issue with the Ulater Council, and they, IMO, rightly did nothing either.
I don't agree with political events occurring on GAA grounds and i think my own views are borne out in GAA rules?
Why the feck do Sinn Fein feel the need to try to create the impression that they run football clubs in certain areas i'll never know. Is it an ego thing or a serving the community strategy?
Our clubhouse has had Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil meetings held in it in a small ante room.Afaik no complaints ever received.
QuoteI don't agree with political events occurring on GAA grounds
Fair enough but back then I am sure the taking over of Casement Park itself by the Para's represented not just a political event occurring on a GAA ground but a lot more when you include the airborne division. So Ok, we go along with the theory that ' that was then and this is now' so in two years time where do you think the 30th Anniversary of the Hunger Strikers should be celebrated? In some bog where nobody will see it and the Americans will make a sequel to the film 'Hunger' called 'Hide' about how strange and reclusive and submissive the Irish have become again. What harm will this commeration do to those who neither want to attend it or have anything to do with it?
http://www.politics.ie/sinn-fein/94548-masked-gunmen-yesterdays-hunger-strike-commemoration.html (http://www.politics.ie/sinn-fein/94548-masked-gunmen-yesterdays-hunger-strike-commemoration.html)
*head in hands*
Bud, I 100% believe the brave men who died on hunger strike should be remembered however, it is not up to the GAA to provide somewhere to do that.
Quote
Why the feck do Sinn Fein feel the need to try to create the impression that they run football clubs in certain areas i'll never know. Is it an ego thing or a serving the community strategy?
Sometimes it's not just an impression.
Dont see anything wrong with it myself. The premises doubles as the Galbally community centre, so a natural
venue IMO. There isn't a plethora of other venues around Cappagh/Galbally area.
Btw, there werent that many in Tallys HS :P
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 19, 2009, 09:59:08 PM
So Ok, we go along with the theory that ' that was then and this is now' so in two years time where do you think the 30th Anniversary of the Hunger Strikers should be celebrated? In some bog where nobody will see it and the Americans will make a sequel to the film 'Hunger' called 'Hide' about how strange and reclusive and submissive the Irish have become again.
Don't be ridiculous. It can be held in the farmer's field just beside the GAA ground. If people care so much to attend the commemoration, they'll walk a few yards further down the road. You don't need anyone else to see it.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 19, 2009, 09:59:08 PM
What harm will this commeration do to those who neither want to attend it or have anything to do with it?
It politicises the GAA. It contravenes GAA rules. It may well go against the wishes of other members of such GAA clubs.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 19, 2009, 10:02:32 PM
http://www.politics.ie/sinn-fein/94548-masked-gunmen-yesterdays-hunger-strike-commemoration.html (http://www.politics.ie/sinn-fein/94548-masked-gunmen-yesterdays-hunger-strike-commemoration.html)
*head in hands*
Indeed. That's all we need.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 19, 2009, 09:35:14 PM
Eight years ago, in August 2001 when thousands marched to, and held a commeration in Casement Park for Bobby Sands and his comrades we had the same moaners out and the same discussion on the old GAA board. If Mr McCausland has a problem then all he has to do is go off and play golf or practice drum beating for the day but like then we have the usual exagerration of what is happening. Some will say nothing has changed, I disagree because on a thread way back I described to Evilgenius that I had no problem working on the Battle of The Boyne site for the Office Of Public Works when our government spent millions, I think 35 million, making a commerative site for the orangemen to celebrate King Billy. If this commeration the one in Galbally that is, was happening on my front lawn I would have no problem so I fail to see how it is such a big issue with GAA men much less Mr Causland, or McCausland or whoever he is. In the end thousands did turn up at Casement and the GAA did the right thing, the left the issue with the Ulater Council, and they, IMO, rightly did nothing either.
100% correct Bud.
As Canalman says - FF and FG meetings are held on GAA premises but this does not constitute the 'politicising' of the GAA.
whingers like mccausland and some of our own serial whinging brigade are thankfully not empowered.
these twits whinging have no cop on obv.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2009, 10:18:55 PM
these twits whinging have no cop on obv.
Yes, a difference of opinion clearly equates to having "no cop on". ::)
Quotehttp://www.politics.ie/sinn-fein/94548-masked-gunmen-yesterdays-hunger-strike-commemoration.html
Assholes indeed but have nothing to do with my opinion, I would not let them into the field down the road much less a GAA ground. However, the difference between a commeration for the hunger strikers and what is displayed on the link are two totally different things.
That lad at the bottom is in the German army, according to his uniform. Were we invaded?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 10:21:55 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2009, 10:18:55 PM
these twits whinging have no cop on obv.
Yes, a difference of opinion clearly equates to having "no cop on". ::)
if the cap fits
any change of changing that cracked whinging record then - as theres obv no chance of ya finding any cop on?
Anecdotally, the pictures are supposed to the Ogra SF acting the twat (now there's a shocker ::)) rather than anything more sinister.
And to be really pedantic no rules were actually broken
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2009, 10:31:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 10:21:55 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2009, 10:18:55 PM
these twits whinging have no cop on obv.
Yes, a difference of opinion clearly equates to having "no cop on". ::)
if the cap fits
any change of changing that cracked whinging record then - as theres obv no chance of ya finding any cop on?
That doesn't even make sense.
Apart from the politics dot ie site, which I subscribe to by the way, are there any more photos or videos of this event showing our new army ?
News updated:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8210801.stm
Barry reckons it was a role play.
Maybe somebody should ask the people of Galbally what they think. I know what their answer would be.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 10:35:01 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2009, 10:31:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 10:21:55 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2009, 10:18:55 PM
these twits whinging have no cop on obv.
Yes, a difference of opinion clearly equates to having "no cop on". ::)
if the cap fits
any change of changing that cracked whinging record then - as theres obv no chance of ya finding any cop on?
That doesn't even make sense.
could have replied that very phrase after most of what you post !!!
is the clarion hotel group political/politicised?
is the bewleys hotel group political/politicised?
is the RDS political/politicised?
and many more examples of hotels and hotel chains etc etc etc
they all hold political party conferences and meetings.
so what then makes it different that if a GAA hall (often a community hall - but you over look that rather quickly and easily) is used for an event for a political party ?
Correct, they are not making the GAA or even the 'GAA hall' 'political.
The GAA is/are NOT political.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2009, 11:01:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 10:35:01 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2009, 10:31:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 10:21:55 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2009, 10:18:55 PM
these twits whinging have no cop on obv.
Yes, a difference of opinion clearly equates to having "no cop on". ::)
if the cap fits
any change of changing that cracked whinging record then - as theres obv no chance of ya finding any cop on?
That doesn't even make sense.
could have replied that very phrase after most of what you post !!!
is the clarion hotel group political/politicised?
is the bewleys hotel group political/politicised?
is the RDS political/politicised?
and many more examples of hotels and hotel chains etc etc etc
they all hold political party conferences and meetings.
so what then makes it different that if a GAA hall (often a community hall - but you over look that rather quickly and easily) is used for an event for a political party ?
Correct, they are not making the GAA or even the 'GAA hall' 'political.
The GAA is/are NOT political.
Exactly
For what its worth, FF, FG, SDLP, etc events should not occur at GAA grounds either.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 19, 2009, 11:05:58 PM
For what its worth, FF, FG, SDLP, etc events should not occur at GAA grounds either.
interesting opinion
why so though?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 10:09:06 PM
It politicises the GAA. It contravenes GAA rules. It may well go against the wishes of other members of such GAA clubs.
It does not contravene the rule as quoted by 'God is on my side' McCausland.
As I read the rule, it does not prohibit GAA premises to be used for such a commemoration, if the event is non party political.
Afaiu the Hunger Strike commemoration event is non party political.
Rule 7 "The Association shall be non-party political. Party
political questions shall not be discussed at its
meetings, and no Committee, Club, Council or
representative thereof shall take part, as such, in any
party political movement."
Maguire I have a question for you - what exactly did the hunger strikers do that you find so offensive?
I find this interesting everytime I see Irish men falling for stupid DUP tactics. The hunger strikers killed themselves! Who, apart from themselves and their families did they hurt by taking this extreme action? I've heard many unionists secretly admitting that they didn't know what to do after the hunger strikes because they couldn't play the victim or the martyr. A community celebrating this SELF Sacrafice in their local GAA club should not be heckled and demonised by any Irish man or woman. The hunger strikes should instead be analysed to see their significance, because whether you like it or not Maguire, if it hadn't have been for their actions, republicans would have taken much longer to politicise themselves and who knows how much longer the troubles would have lasted.
Political correctness can sometimes be a dangerous revisionist tactic. Just because something seems wrong in todays modern peaceful society, does not mean that it can be decontextualised and judged by the same standards, as we all know, you could have been shot dead yourself walking to a GAA ground in the early 80's, maybe then you wouldn't have been so quick to apply your PC outlook to those who fought and died for the right to walk to our grounds in peace.
Quote from: Aoise on August 20, 2009, 01:21:45 AM
Maguire I have a question for you - what exactly did the hunger strikers do that you find so offensive?
I find this interesting everytime I see Irish men falling for stupid DUP tactics. The hunger strikers killed themselves! Who, apart from themselves and their families did they hurt by taking this extreme action? I've heard many unionists secretly admitting that they didn't know what to do after the hunger strikes because they couldn't play the victim or the martyr. A community celebrating this SELF Sacrafice in their local GAA club should not be heckled and demonised by any Irish man or woman. The hunger strikes should instead be analysed to see their significance, because whether you like it or not Maguire, if it hadn't have been for their actions, republicans would have taken much longer to politicise themselves and who knows how much longer the troubles would have lasted.
Political correctness can sometimes be a dangerous revisionist tactic. Just because something seems wrong in todays modern peaceful society, does not mean that it can be decontextualised and judged by the same standards, as we all know, you could have been shot dead yourself walking to a GAA ground in the early 80's, maybe then you wouldn't have been so quick to apply your PC outlook to those who fought and died for the right to walk to our grounds in peace.
Excellent Post. As I said earlier, ask the people of Galbally what their thoughts would be. i'm sure a lot of them
can remember not being able to get to mass, never mind the GAA pitch.As regards McCauslands rants, they
wont lose any sleep.
Well said Aoise. Would that our compatriots could shed a tear of our blood for our brethren who gave all for every one of us... Catholic, Protestant, and Dissenter. White, Black or Other.
Fcuk off Maguire. Post this shite elsewhere, how about the OWC?
Cop on a Chara.
GAA asked to explain Sinn Féin rally
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 22:20
The SDLP wants the GAA to investigate why Sinn Féin was allowed to use its facilities in Co Tyrone last weekend to stage a hunger strike commemoration rally.
The event was held at the GAA grounds in Galbally on Sunday afternoon and Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams was the main speaker.
Northern Ireland Minister for Culture and Sport Nelson McCausland (DUP) has claimed that the rally was a clear breach of the GAA's rule 7a, which states that the organisation should be non-party political.
SDLP deputy leader Alasdair McDonnell has also criticised the event.
He said he would raise the issue when he met senior GAA executives in Dublin today.
SDLP response >:( what would you expect from a sow but a grunt?
Much ado about nothing.
Sow and grunts.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 19, 2009, 09:35:14 PM
Eight years ago, in August 2001 when thousands marched to, and held a commeration in Casement Park for Bobby Sands and his comrades we had the same moaners out and the same discussion on the old GAA board. If Mr McCausland has a problem then all he has to do is go off and play golf or practice drum beating for the day but like then we have the usual exagerration of what is happening. Some will say nothing has changed, I disagree because on a thread way back I described to Evilgenius that I had no problem working on the Battle of The Boyne site for the Office Of Public Works when our government spent millions, I think 35 million, making a commerative site for the orangemen to celebrate King Billy. If this commeration the one in Galbally that is, was happening on my front lawn I would have no problem so I fail to see how it is such a big issue with GAA men much less Mr Causland, or McCausland or whoever he is. In the end thousands did turn up at Casement and the GAA did the right thing, the left the issue with the Ulater Council, and they, IMO, rightly did nothing either.
Why did the OPW do that? Did you have no problem with the idea of it or just because you didnt want to lose your job?
QuoteWhy did the OPW do that? Did you have no problem with the idea of it or just because you didnt want to lose your job?
Sorry Sligonian, just to be clear on what I was trying to say. I had no problem whatsoever with the Battle Of The Boyne Site or the money the government gave. The point I make is that it was a "Hands Across The Border" type initative with Bertie presenting Paisley with a gun and all that. It was a huge peace building effort and there were constant visits from members of the Orange Order and even the hierarchy from Norway to observe the progress of this massive spend to allow people like Mr McCausland come down here and celebrate King Billy while as soon as there is a peep out of any Nationalist group to rightfully celebrate some of our comrades there is a big issue made of it.
On the second point, my job, while I don't feel I should be obliged to answer it I will for what it's worth. I was a subcontractor on the job doing cabling for CCTV and Security. One day I was on my knees inside the main entrance door along with an assistant and we were trying to fish a cable up inside the wood panels towards the window as it was a protected structure. One of the visits I referred to above were in place and these two orangemen were standing in the main reception area and they were all excited about the project and they came over t the window and one was pointing out in the direction of a big tree in front of the house saying, "R
ete beside thon tree, that's where King Billy was sitting and the c
onnon was fired from over there (him pointing) and the ball actually grazed Billy on the cheek and shoulder"
And I said to my mate, "It's a pity it didn't take the fooking head off him and we would not be here trying to get this wire out". Our Orangemen overherad what I said but were not in peacefull mode that day so they reported me and three days later I was asked to leave the site and the contract was awarded to another company. There is still a legal issue but any further questions will have to be asked to the Office Of Public Works and I can PM you the names of the persons dealing with it. You can ask them why the first security company were taken off site and how much it cost to get the second one to make sure Mr. McCausland and his mates were appeased and would they ask their counterparts in the North as a reciprocal gesture if they would spend a similar ammount to build a commerative site for us near Casement Park to help the next generation remember the hassle the brits gave to young lads going to GAA games.
Rule 7a ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
This is f**king ridiculous.
BTW Bud the armed men were there as an illustration. Hungerstrikers, Prison Wardens,the RUC and British Army were also portrayed along the route.
I'm away to work now for the day so I will leave a note in the door of Ballyboden St Enda's on my way that Tom Kitt, TD (FF) or any of the four County Councillors from three other parties are to be let in. Will someone who has a bit of time while I am gone make a list of all those boyo's that are T'Ds and County Managers and tell them they have to relenquish their Dail seats or leave the GAA. Seek out what political parties every county board chairman is a member of in the 26 counties and if he is from Sinn Fein throw him off the committee, he is an ego tripper. If on the other hand he is from Fianna Fail and is a TD then that's fine I suppose. Jeezus wept!
Mary McAleese is not allowed to meet players in Croker either.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 20, 2009, 07:38:04 AM
QuoteWhy did the OPW do that? Did you have no problem with the idea of it or just because you didnt want to lose your job?
Sorry Sligonian, just to be clear on what I was trying to say. I had no problem whatsoever with the Battle Of The Boyne Site or the money the government gave. The point I make is that it was a "Hands Across The Border" type initative with Bertie presenting Paisley with a gun and all that. It was a huge peace building effort and there were constant visits from members of the Orange Order and even the hierarchy from Norway to observe the progress of this massive spend to allow people like Mr McCausland come down here and celebrate King Billy while as soon as there is a peep out of any Nationalist group to rightfully celebrate some of our comrades there is a big issue made of it.
On the second point, my job, while I don't feel I should be obliged to answer it I will for what it's worth. I was a subcontractor on the job doing cabling for CCTV and Security. One day I was on my knees inside the main entrance door along with an assistant and we were trying to fish a cable up inside the wood panels towards the window as it was a protected structure. One of the visits I referred to above were in place and these two orangemen were standing in the main reception area and they were all excited about the project and they came over t the window and one was pointing out in the direction of a big tree in front of the house saying, "Rete beside thon tree, that's where King Billy was sitting and the connon was fired from over there (him pointing) and the ball actually grazed Billy on the cheek and shoulder"
And I said to my mate, "It's a pity it didn't take the fooking head off him and we would not be here trying to get this wire out". Our Orangemen overherad what I said but were not in peacefull mode that day so they reported me and three days later I was asked to leave the site and the contract was awarded to another company. There is still a legal issue but any further questions will have to be asked to the Office Of Public Works and I can PM you the names of the persons dealing with it. You can ask them why the first security company were taken off site and how much it cost to get the second one to make sure Mr. McCausland and his mates were appeased and would they ask their counterparts in the North as a reciprocal gesture if they would spend a similar ammount to build a commerative site for us near Casement Park to help the next generation remember the hassle the brits gave to young lads going to GAA games.
Well Bud, I was thinking I was missing something all right, fair play for clarifying...the OPW some joke, at the end of the day your comment, which I wholeheartly agree with btw, would not affect your ability to do the job..anyway I hope ye got payed compensation.
Was there any people protesting about this commenoration of the tryrant that tryed to destroy all things Irish. Its like someone shooting and killing your brother and then you going out building a statute for them to celebrate them killing your brother. F@#king crazy.
Saddest thing is the Irish people whinging about a GAA ground been used breaking rule 7a, common sense was used big deal :o. In fairness it was for a very worthy cause.
This in an era when we see public commemorations on a weekly basis in Britain of their fallen in Afghanistan and Iraq - Ive yet to see the venues questioned? Indeed what human being would ever question the honour entitled by their ultimate sacrifice, or belittle them posthumously, or deny their friends and community the right to keep them honoured. What about wreath laying in the centre of towns remembering the war dead, Who could criticise these military commemorations of people prepared to take the ultimate step for their ideals - even if they are not in tandem with our own. By their very nature military commemorations are the organised healing of the scars of war, providing comfort to those who lost their friends and family - in a strage way it shows the sadness and futility of war, if we dont let each side commemorate then each side will learn nothing. Honouring the soldier who pays the ultimate sacrifice shows the similarities between any man who fights for his country and ideal, brit or paddy included. Whether its a prayer into the ear in a muddy pit in the somme or a walk and a roleplay through Galbally those who have lost have every right to question whats going on, the venue, the costumes, the food etc. but it only highlights the ignorance of those who were fortunate enough to remain untouched.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 06:34:44 PM
Surprised this hasn't been posted already...
QuoteMcCausland slams H-Block event
Sports Minister Nelson McCausland has criticised the staging of a hunger strike commemoration at a GAA ground.
It took place at Galbally, County Tyrone, after a procession on Sunday.
Speaking as a DUP MLA, he said: "It cannot be right that a sports ground should be used for commemorating and celebrating something as offensive as the whole H-Block episode."
Sinn Fein MLA Barry McElduff said there were no alternative venues for the rural, largely republican community.
"We were remembering, not terrorists but inspirational, politically-motivated Irish hunger strikers," said Mr McElduff, who was speaking in a party capacity rather than as chairman of the assembly's culture, arts and leisure committee.
"Many young people are curious to know the story of these hunger strikers who laid down their lives for Irish freedom."
However, Mr McCausland said the event was a breach of the GAA's rule 7a, which states the organisation should be non-party political.
"People will be disappointed to see a sports ground used for such a political event which glorifies Irish republican terrorism," he said.
He added: "The event in Tyrone was a retrograde step and I think it has reinforced division and political sectarianism."
Breach of the GAA's rule 7a carries a penalty of up to 24 weeks' suspension.
A GAA spokesperson said they had no comment to make on the matter.
The parade was staged near the home of IRA hunger striker Martin Hurson, who died in the Maze Prison in July 1981.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8206863.stm
It's a shame yet again that some people have felt it appropriate to use a GAA ground for such activities. And all it does is give the DUP another stick to beat the Association with.
Im just glad to see that Mr McCausland is reading the rules!!
The GAA's longstanding policy of being non-party political has served it well and I think it would be a big mistake to abandon it. On a different level altogether from the Galbally commemoration, there was an incident in Cavan earlier this summer when a prominent Fianna Fail councillor lost his seat in the local elections and in comments to the media afterwards attacked his local GAA club, Kingscourt Stars, for allowing their website to be used by his opponents.
The club rebutted this allegation in the following letter which appeared in the Anglo Celt.
http://www.anglocelt.ie/opinion/letters/articles/2009/06/17/40721-gaa-denies-involvement-in-smear-campaign/
"Dear editor,
Kingscourt Stars GAA would like to express their disappointment at the statement made in last week"s edition of the Anglo Celt by Mr. Clifford Kelly, in the aftermath of the recent local elections. It was stated in the article that Mr Kelly 'expressed disappointment that the GAA allowed their website to be used by the opposition', adding that he 'didn"t expect I (he) would get this sort of treatment from them'.
Kingscourt Stars GAA would like to put on record that their website has never been used to promote any person running in the local elections nor have we any affiliation to any political organisation. The website has only ever been used to promote our national sport and Gaelic football in the Kingscourt area from underage up to senior level. Individual members of the GAA club along with members of the general public have the right to express their own political allegiances or views as they see fit.
However as a voluntary organisation, Kingscourt Stars GAA does not, and never has, supported nor opposed any political party.
Kingscourt Stars has always had a good relationship with Mr. Kelly and indeed he was often complimented at our AGMs for his contribution to the town of Kingscourt. As a result of this, we are bitterly disappointed that Mr. Kelly has expressed these recent views on a local organisation without any basis of truth as we would never intend to treat Mr Kelly wrongly.
Signed: Kingscourt Stars GAA"
If clubs and county boards let themselves get involved iin party politics, then I feel that this would be a recipe for needless division and rancour within the GAA - and we have enough of this as it is. Tony cites some very uncomfortable questions surrounding IFA and Irish League soccer clubs. Unless the GAA retains and adheres to its non-party political stance, it risks walking itself into the same sort of mess that the IFA continually finds itself.
And, for the record, there is a big difference between a club allowing its rooms to be used for local party meetings and allowing their halls or playing fields to host major political rallies.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 20, 2009, 09:27:45 AM
While I think it would be better for GAA grounds not to be used for such events Mr Mc Causland should get rojnd to addressing the following issues as well
1.The involvement of people who are, if not members of loyalist paramilitaries have strong associations with them in Irish League Soocer Clubs Boardrooms
2. The commemoration hosted on the pitch before an actual game, by Glentoran FC for the late David Ervine PUP/UVF
3. The regular violent fallouts between various rival loyalist factions in the social clubs of Irish League soccer clubs.
4. The alienation of 45% of the community in the 6 counties from local soccer in general and the IFA international team in particular
Is whataboutye the only argument you ever use?
Quote from: cornafean on August 20, 2009, 09:43:57 AM
And, for the record, there is a big difference between a club allowing its rooms to be used for local party meetings and allowing their halls or playing fields to host major political rallies.
curious to know what you think the difference is
fair play to Kingscourt stars. The GAA is NOT a political or politicised association. For all the attempts at portraying it as one on this thread , by serial re-offenders on the non-GAA part of the board, there has been nothing submitted that can even cast an iota of doubt in any way that it can be viewed as such.
Doesnt stop these 'people' continually throwing mud/accusation at it almost on a monthly basis.
Maybe its not a problem with the GAA or meetings but a more common general problem with alzheimers ?
I took photographs at the commemoration and have them on my flickr site,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16144312@N07/sets/72157622062520708/detail/
they clearly show that there were a number of re-enactments along the route of the event, (first of which I missed photographing) they ran from growing up, involvement with the struggle through active service, arrest, interrogation and the Hunger Strike itself.
Since this was a commemoration to remember the lives of all the Hunger Strikers I can't see the problem with that, perhaps now with the hullaballoo we will no longer see Orangemen with ceremonial swords or the re-enactments with muskets being banned and Scarva were real shotguns and live rounds are used to shoot the "fenian" flag from a pole .
As I heard being asked on the radio of the SDLP, why was it ok for Alban McGuinness to actively canvas for votes in a GAA ground but not for a commemoration which was open to all, be banned from the same gounds as being political, pot and kettle once again.
Should I not take pictures of commemorations and then use the same camera to take photos of a GAA game, such a quandry.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2009, 01:38:29 AM
Well said Aoise. Would that our compatriots could shed a tear of our blood for our brethren who gave all for every one of us... Catholic, Protestant, and Dissenter. White, Black or Other.
That's a hell of an assumption. you think everyone shares this opinion of the hungerstrikers?
If we assume that everyone doesn't, how do you think the locals who had their club taken over for this demonstration feel? Most likely intimidated by the whole thing and wishing the week away before getting the club back for its actual purpose.
Quote from: Zapatista on August 20, 2009, 08:02:16 AM
Mary McAleese is not allowed to meet players in Croker either.
what party does Mary McAleese belong to?
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 10:50:32 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 20, 2009, 08:02:16 AM
Mary McAleese is not allowed to meet players in Croker either.
what party does Mary McAleese belong to?
She represents Irish Political interests abroad.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 10:48:12 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2009, 01:38:29 AM
Well said Aoise. Would that our compatriots could shed a tear of our blood for our brethren who gave all for every one of us... Catholic, Protestant, and Dissenter. White, Black or Other.
how do you think the locals who had their club taken over for this demonstration feel?
Not taken over but requested and accepted.
Quote from: Zapatista on August 20, 2009, 10:56:01 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 10:50:32 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 20, 2009, 08:02:16 AM
Mary McAleese is not allowed to meet players in Croker either.
what party does Mary McAleese belong to?
She represents Irish Political interests abroad.
What party's that then?
Quote from: Zapatista on August 20, 2009, 10:56:01 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 10:48:12 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2009, 01:38:29 AM
Well said Aoise. Would that our compatriots could shed a tear of our blood for our brethren who gave all for every one of us... Catholic, Protestant, and Dissenter. White, Black or Other.
how do you think the locals who had their club taken over for this demonstration feel?
Not taken over but requested and accepted.
And how many of those who opposed this and rather their club was for sport, community and culture would have spoken up at a meeting? not likely.
The association's rules are to protect those people in instances like this.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 19, 2009, 09:35:14 PM
Eight years ago, in August 2001 when thousands marched to, and held a commeration in Casement Park for Bobby Sands and his comrades we had the same moaners out and the same discussion on the old GAA board. If Mr McCausland has a problem then all he has to do is go off and play golf or practice drum beating for the day but like then we have the usual exagerration of what is happening. Some will say nothing has changed, I disagree because on a thread way back I described to Evilgenius that I had no problem working on the Battle of The Boyne site for the Office Of Public Works when our government spent millions, I think 35 million, making a commerative site for the orangemen to celebrate King Billy. If this commeration the one in Galbally that is, was happening on my front lawn I would have no problem so I fail to see how it is such a big issue with GAA men much less Mr Causland, or McCausland or whoever he is. In the end thousands did turn up at Casement and the GAA did the right thing, the left the issue with the Ulater Council, and they, IMO, rightly did nothing either.
You are a first rate idiot Bud. This issue is not about McCausland but is all about the proper use of our GAA facilities.
If you can't see the good reason for the rule, go off to some other sport.
Quote from: Leo on August 20, 2009, 12:09:39 PM
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 19, 2009, 09:35:14 PM
Eight years ago, in August 2001 when thousands marched to, and held a commeration in Casement Park for Bobby Sands and his comrades we had the same moaners out and the same discussion on the old GAA board. If Mr McCausland has a problem then all he has to do is go off and play golf or practice drum beating for the day but like then we have the usual exagerration of what is happening. Some will say nothing has changed, I disagree because on a thread way back I described to Evilgenius that I had no problem working on the Battle of The Boyne site for the Office Of Public Works when our government spent millions, I think 35 million, making a commerative site for the orangemen to celebrate King Billy. If this commeration the one in Galbally that is, was happening on my front lawn I would have no problem so I fail to see how it is such a big issue with GAA men much less Mr Causland, or McCausland or whoever he is. In the end thousands did turn up at Casement and the GAA did the right thing, the left the issue with the Ulater Council, and they, IMO, rightly did nothing either.
You are a first rate idiot Bud. This issue is not about McCausland but is all about the proper use of our GAA facilities.
If you can't see the good reason for the rule, go off to some other sport.
I think there are two issues, but one is a much bigger issue than the other.
1) A sports minister, supposedly representing all his constituents, forever sniping at the GAA, refusing to attend any of their functions then jumping up and down with glee at the smell of success in his narrow minded objectives
2) A GAA ground being let out to the local community to celebrate an historic event
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 11:05:24 AM
And how many of those who opposed this and rather their club was for sport, community and culture would have spoken up at a meeting? not likely.
The association's rules are to protect those people in instances like this.
Wise up.
I just hope that some GAA club won't suffer the consequences of an attack now from some small minded loyalist. The mentality of these people are that any small justification is required for there actions and this may encourage some idiot with a can of petrol to do a bit of damage over the weekend to a clubhouse somewhere.
Quote from: bingobus on August 20, 2009, 12:58:35 PM
I just hope that some GAA club will suffer the consequences of an attack now from some small minded loyalist. The mentality of these people are that any small justification is required for there actions and this may encourage some idiot with a can of petrol to do a bit of damage over the weekend to a clubhouse somewhere.
Missed a word there bingo
Quote from: Zapatista on August 20, 2009, 12:53:46 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 11:05:24 AM
And how many of those who opposed this and rather their club was for sport, community and culture would have spoken up at a meeting? not likely.
The association's rules are to protect those people in instances like this.
Wise up.
I'm not sure exactly what it is that you disagree with here?
That there are people who don't want these things in their GAA cluba?
That there are people who are too intimidated to voice protests at these events occurring within their clubs?
Or that the GAA's rules don't prohibit these events from being held on GAA premises?
Quote from: Hereiam on August 20, 2009, 01:16:49 PM
Quote from: bingobus on August 20, 2009, 12:58:35 PM
I just hope that some GAA club will suffer the consequences of an attack now from some small minded loyalist. The mentality of these people are that any small justification is required for there actions and this may encourage some idiot with a can of petrol to do a bit of damage over the weekend to a clubhouse somewhere.
Missed a word there bingo
They cant be that evil, can they lads?
I'd like to straighten out few points re: this argument.
firstly, the community hall in Galbally where the event took place, is exactly that, a community hall.
It is NOT clubrooms belonging to the gaa.
AFAIK galbally pay rent to the community centre to use the changing facilities for their football club as it is right beside the football pitch.
it wasnt a decision for the gaa or galbally football club to make, as whether to allow the event to be partially staged there.(although i would imagine no-one in the club would have had a problem with it)
Also regarding the men in paramilitary dress,i admit the photos look bad, but what they donot show is that they were part of a reinactment of the troubles that included, prision guards, polices officers and maze prisioner.
They were NOT part of some sort of PIRA propaganda stunt
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 20, 2009, 03:08:00 PM
I'd like to straighten out few points re: this argument.
firstly, the community hall in Galbally where the event took place, is exactly that, a community hall.
It is NOT clubrooms belonging to the gaa.
AFAIK galbally pay rent to the community centre to use the changing facilities for their football club as it is right beside the football pitch.
it wasnt a decision for the gaa or galbally football club to make, as whether to allow the event to be partially staged there.(although i would imagine no-one in the club would have had a problem with it)
Also regarding the men in paramilitary dress,i admit the photos look bad, but what they donot show is that they were part of a reinactment of the troubles that included, prision guards, polices officers and maze prisioner.
They were NOT part of some sort of PIRA propaganda stunt
Well that's that cleared. Thanks
Where did they get the guns, as a matter of curiosity?
Quote from: Hardy on August 20, 2009, 03:18:43 PM
Where did they get the guns, as a matter of curiosity?
Toysrus?
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 20, 2009, 03:08:00 PM
I'd like to straighten out few points re: this argument.
firstly, the community hall in Galbally where the event took place, is exactly that, a community hall.
It is NOT clubrooms belonging to the gaa.
AFAIK galbally pay rent to the community centre to use the changing facilities for their football club as it is right beside the football pitch.
it wasnt a decision for the gaa or galbally football club to make, as whether to allow the event to be partially staged there.(although i would imagine no-one in the club would have had a problem with it)
Also regarding the men in paramilitary dress,i admit the photos look bad, but what they donot show is that they were part of a reinactment of the troubles that included, prision guards, polices officers and maze prisioner.
They were NOT part of some sort of PIRA propaganda stunt
Not trying to start anything but I thought the bits I seen on the news where that the speaches where made from a lorry on the pitch and the marchers, supporters, etc where out on the field.
May be wrong but i recall seeing Gerry Adams on the news like that.
Quote from: bingobus on August 20, 2009, 03:33:15 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 20, 2009, 03:08:00 PM
I'd like to straighten out few points re: this argument.
firstly, the community hall in Galbally where the event took place, is exactly that, a community hall.
It is NOT clubrooms belonging to the gaa.
AFAIK galbally pay rent to the community centre to use the changing facilities for their football club as it is right beside the football pitch.
it wasnt a decision for the gaa or galbally football club to make, as whether to allow the event to be partially staged there.(although i would imagine no-one in the club would have had a problem with it)
Also regarding the men in paramilitary dress,i admit the photos look bad, but what they donot show is that they were part of a reinactment of the troubles that included, prision guards, polices officers and maze prisioner.
They were NOT part of some sort of PIRA propaganda stunt
Not trying to start anything but I thought the bits I seen on the news where that the speaches where made from a lorry on the pitch and the marchers, supporters, etc where out on the field.
May be wrong but i recall seeing Gerry Adams on the news like that.
Any link to the footage anyone?
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 20, 2009, 03:08:00 PM
I'd like to straighten out few points re: this argument.
firstly, the community hall in Galbally where the event took place, is exactly that, a community hall.
It is NOT clubrooms belonging to the gaa.
AFAIK galbally pay rent to the community centre to use the changing facilities for their football club as it is right beside the football pitch.
it wasnt a decision for the gaa or galbally football club to make, as whether to allow the event to be partially staged there.(although i would imagine no-one in the club would have had a problem with it)
Also regarding the men in paramilitary dress,i admit the photos look bad, but what they donot show is that they were part of a reinactment of the troubles that included, prision guards, polices officers and maze prisioner.
They were NOT part of some sort of PIRA propaganda stunt
If this is the case then it changes the argument. If it weren't GAA grounds there's no case to answer
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 03:42:42 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 20, 2009, 03:08:00 PM
I'd like to straighten out few points re: this argument.
firstly, the community hall in Galbally where the event took place, is exactly that, a community hall.
It is NOT clubrooms belonging to the gaa.
AFAIK galbally pay rent to the community centre to use the changing facilities for their football club as it is right beside the football pitch.
it wasnt a decision for the gaa or galbally football club to make, as whether to allow the event to be partially staged there.(although i would imagine no-one in the club would have had a problem with it)
Also regarding the men in paramilitary dress,i admit the photos look bad, but what they donot show is that they were part of a reinactment of the troubles that included, prision guards, polices officers and maze prisioner.
They were NOT part of some sort of PIRA propaganda stunt
If this is the case then it changes the argument. If it weren't GAA grounds there's no case to answer
no case to answer even if there was.
Just that some people have an issue with it.
as it stands in such an instance (hypothetical as it is right now) we still have as yet to hear any reason why not or for someone to tell us how this politicises either the GAA, the club or the club grounds/buildings.
In short - it doesnt politicise anything.
However it is reasonable for some people to not want ff/fg/sdlp/sf/dup/dana to hold meetings/rallies on GAA premises. It just doesnt make it wrong.
If you genuinely believe (we both know you don't) that this type of rally, were it to be held on GAA premises, does not politicise that club and by Association the GAA then there's nothing to debate.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 04:05:01 PM
If you genuinely believe (we both know you don't) that this type of rally, were it to be held on GAA premises, does not politicise that club and by Association the GAA then there's nothing to debate.
and thankfully (observing common sense) obviously so does the GAA.
are you now telling me what I believe !
I think thats stretching 'personal opinion' into 'ramming it down other peoples throats' territory !
Again asI said, the GAA dont believe it does, otherwise they would prohibit the likes of FF/FG/SDLP/Sf etc from using these premises.
you can put away those jackboots now !
my understanding is that all political events are outlawed, including every party you name?
seriously, you think that a club hosting a hungerstriker rally does not politicise that club?
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 04:27:08 PM
my understanding is that all political events are outlawed, including every party you name?
seriously, you think that a club hosting a hungerstriker rally does not politicise that club?
correct, and the GAA viewpoint is that also.
would holding a farmers rally turn in it into a pro farming anti gov establishment/club
would holding a union meeting mean its a pro union movement establisment/club
would the selling of alcohol in the bar turn it into a pro alcoholism establishment/club
would holding race night/poker classic mean its a pro gambling establishment/club.
you take offence where you want to. However the GAA dont see these events as holding statements on the club/premises.
The GAA stance is clear and you might not like it but thats just tough luck on your part.
I dont like tyrone, but they still let theminto the ulster and All Ireland championships!
Surely this:
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2009, 11:50:29 PM
Rule 7 "The Association shall be non-party political. Party
political questions shall not be discussed at its
meetings, and no Committee, Club, Council or
representative thereof shall take part, as such, in any
party political movement."
says different?
Not liking tyrone is different from not wanting the biggest sporting organization in the country, and one which i'm sure we both hold dear, to be turned into a political football.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 04:38:29 PM
Surely this:
Quote from: Main Street on August 19, 2009, 11:50:29 PM
Rule 7 "The Association shall be non-party political. Party
political questions shall not be discussed at its
meetings, and no Committee, Club, Council or
representative thereof shall take part, as such, in any
party political movement."
says different?
Not liking tyrone is different from not wanting the biggest sporting organization in the country, and one which i'm sure we both hold dear, to be turned into a political football.
huge difference
this is where the actual club and club members in full representation of the club actively indulge in the activities of the political event being held on the premises.
As yet, no club has done this therefore the ruling has not been breached.
If that was the case you would be correct, and the club hauled over the coals for doing so.
But as it stands all the club/grounds are doing is providing a location for these third parties to use.
so the answer , most likely to your dissatisfaction is 'no, there is no breach of GAA rules'.
therefore no politicisation.
well if this demonstration had been held on GAA property i'd have had an issue with it, you are right. as it hasn't, i have no problem whatsoever.
In general i do not like even the subtle politicising of the GAA in the north that Sinn fein operates. The positioning of people by stealth within committees to influence clubs is the first thing that has to stop.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 20, 2009, 02:39:29 PM
As I said before the issue here is Mc Causland's hypocrisy, Unionist paramilitaries are in most Irish League clubs, knocking seven shades of shite out of each other and some are even on Boards of Directors.
The reality up here is that it would be a brave man who would stand up to paramilitaries of any hue and deny them use of facilities be they GAA or soccer
well said! that idiot mc causland is a bigot and it wouldn't matter what we were doing he'd snipe at the gaa. he complains about kevin lynch's dungiven being named after a hunger striker yet doesn't see why people object to a band named after a loyalist paramilitary (freeman memorial winyhall) marching by kevin mcdaid's house here in coleraine. bands in this town carry uvf and uda logos and there is never a mention of it. the gaa is part of the republican culture in the north and i feel it is no coincidence that the border counties of tyrone and armagh have been dominant this decade. if the hall is OWNED by the gaa ok it is wrong. if on the other hand it is a community hall the GAA has FECK ALL to do with it!!!
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 04:55:36 PM
well if this demonstration had been held on GAA property i'd have had an issue with it, you are right. as it hasn't, i have no problem whatsoever.
In general i do not like even the subtle politicising of the GAA in the north that Sinn fein operates. The positioning of people by stealth within committees to influence clubs is the first thing that has to stop.
firstly this instance it didnt happen on wholey GAA premises. The rules are not being broken for the other instances where FF/Fg/SDLP/SF/IFA/Texas holdem etc etc have the use of GAA club premises.
If so they would be taken to task.
your point about sf joining committees is a completely different matter.
As GAA people they are entitled to join clubs and join theclub executives etc.
However once they start trying to weild any kind of party stance within the club they are completely
wrong and that would breach that ruling.
However while I would agree with you on this - it is not the topic at hand (and thankfully this is not a common problem as yet at least).
Otherwise the GAA is not political and not politicised - certainly not by holding 'events' at or on their premises.
we're almost in agreement. even hosting partizan polical events on GAA premises is not on in my view, and contrary to that ruling.
I don't think texas holdem is political
So Nelson does not know who the current All Ireland champions are but does know exactly which clause of the GAA constitution applies in this case.
Quote from: dec on August 20, 2009, 05:13:31 PM
So Nelson does not know who the current All Ireland champions are but does know exactly which clause of the GAA constitution applies in this case.
Nelson is very good at finding things that offend him.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 20, 2009, 02:39:29 PM
As I said before the issue here is Mc Causland's hypocrisy, Unionist paramilitaries are in most Irish League clubs, knocking seven shades of shite out of each other and some are even on Boards of Directors.
The reality up here is that it would be a brave man who would stand up to paramilitaries of any hue and deny them use of facilities be they GAA or soccer
Tony you couldnt be more wrong if you tried. While what Ive highlighted is an issue, it is nowhere near the issue being highlighted by McCausland. That is THEIR issue. The correct use of GAA property is for the GAA to sort out, not what wankers are running irish league clubs.
QuoteYou are a first rate idiot Bud. This issue is not about McCausland but is all about the proper use of our GAA facilities.
If you can't see the good reason for the rule, go off to some other sport.
Well, well well, I would have to go off to another sport if there were knackers like you in the GAA. This is a discussion board, in case you don't know. I am entitled to my opinion, you to yours so keep the personal insults to yourself or you might get them back ten fold, oe worse.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 20, 2009, 10:54:59 AM
Gnevin, I don't ue whataboutery as an argument, I merely highlight hypocrisy
whataboutery in 2 easy steps
Step one grudging accept your side may be slightly at fault .
Step two quickly highlight how the other side are worse.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 20, 2009, 09:27:45 AM
While I think it would be better for GAA grounds not to be used for such events
Step 1 check!
Quote
Mr Mc Causland should get rojnd to addressing the following issues as well
1.The involvement of people who are, if not members of loyalist paramilitaries have strong associations with them in Irish League Soocer Clubs Boardrooms
2. The commemoration hosted on the pitch before an actual game, by Glentoran FC for the late David Ervine PUP/UVF
3. The regular violent fallouts between various rival loyalist factions in the social clubs of Irish League soccer clubs.
4. The alienation of 45% of the community in the 6 counties from local soccer in general and the IFA international team in particular
Step 2 check !
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 19, 2009, 09:43:39 PM
I don't agree with political events occurring on GAA grounds and i think my own views are borne out in GAA rules?
Why the feck do Sinn Fein feel the need to try to create the impression that they run football clubs in certain areas i'll never know. Is it an ego thing or a serving the community strategy?
I think it's an ego thing as it couldn't be a serving the community strategy since they only serve themselves
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2009, 01:38:29 AM
Well said Aoise. Would that our compatriots could shed a tear of our blood for our brethren who gave all for every one of us... Catholic, Protestant, and Dissenter. White, Black or Other.
Fcuk off Maguire. Post this shite elsewhere, how about the OWC?
Cop on a Chara.
:D :D :D :D
Sorry. There's some real pro IRA shite talk on this thread, but your effort wins the prize. Quality post!
Quote from: Aoise on August 20, 2009, 01:21:45 AM
Maguire I have a question for you - what exactly did the hunger strikers do that you find so offensive?
I have no problem with the hunger strikers, nor am I offended by them. And I would defend the right of anyone who wants to commemorate them. I just don't think that GAA grounds should be used for such events - there are plenty of alternatives.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2009, 01:38:29 AM
Fcuk off Maguire. Post this shite elsewhere, how about the OWC?
Cop on a Chara.
There's no need to get ignorant about it. Surely it's acceptable to discuss something relevant to the GAA on a GAA discussion board?
It's a shame that some people here - many of whom would call themselves Irish Republicans - feel that to be Irish or to be a GAA man you have to share one political opinion or share the same outlook on such matters, and dismiss any alternative view.
Quote from: rrhf on August 20, 2009, 08:48:29 AM
This in an era when we see public commemorations on a weekly basis in Britain of their fallen in Afghanistan and Iraq - Ive yet to see the venues questioned?
There was an army parade in Belfast last year that caused a bit of a fuss.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 20, 2009, 03:08:00 PM
I'd like to straighten out few points re: this argument.
firstly, the community hall in Galbally where the event took place, is exactly that, a community hall.
It is NOT clubrooms belonging to the gaa.
AFAIK galbally pay rent to the community centre to use the changing facilities for their football club as it is right beside the football pitch.
it wasnt a decision for the gaa or galbally football club to make, as whether to allow the event to be partially staged there.(although i would imagine no-one in the club would have had a problem with it)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2508/3829774946_daa1a89468.jpg)
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 20, 2009, 06:25:08 PM
Sorry. There's some real pro IRA shite talk on this thread, but your effort wins the prize. Quality post!
If it isn't the Stooper-in-chief himself.
Go and swap notes with your buddy Mc Causland, whose problem lies in the fact that his loyalist scum buddies could only refrain from food for about 9 days, before it dawned on them that they hadn't the energy to pull themselves off over their 'library' of porn mags. You could advise there.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 20, 2009, 06:35:39 PM
There's no need to get ignorant about it. Surely it's acceptable to discuss something relevant to the GAA on a GAA discussion board?
It's a shame that some people here - many of whom would call themselves Irish Republicans - feel that to be Irish or to be a GAA man you have to share one political opinion or share the same outlook on such matters, and dismiss any alternative view.
In your alacrity to have a bash, you posted it on the wrong board. This is about politics not sport, at least try to post in the right place.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 20, 2009, 06:44:38 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 20, 2009, 03:08:00 PM
I'd like to straighten out few points re: this argument.
firstly, the community hall in Galbally where the event took place, is exactly that, a community hall.
It is NOT clubrooms belonging to the gaa.
AFAIK galbally pay rent to the community centre to use the changing facilities for their football club as it is right beside the football pitch.
it wasnt a decision for the gaa or galbally football club to make, as whether to allow the event to be partially staged there.(although i would imagine no-one in the club would have had a problem with it)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2508/3829774946_daa1a89468.jpg)
*shakes head*
Why can't we leave the politics at the gate?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2009, 06:46:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 20, 2009, 06:35:39 PM
There's no need to get ignorant about it. Surely it's acceptable to discuss something relevant to the GAA on a GAA discussion board?
It's a shame that some people here - many of whom would call themselves Irish Republicans - feel that to be Irish or to be a GAA man you have to share one political opinion or share the same outlook on such matters, and dismiss any alternative view.
In your alacrity to have a bash, you posted it on the wrong board. This is about politics not sport, at least try to post in the right place.
I did consider posting on the General Discussion board. But I thought that, being a
GAA related matter, it was appropriate for discussion on the
GAA Discussion board.
But feel free to ask the mods to move it over if it's an issue for you.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 20, 2009, 06:56:20 PM
But feel free to ask the mods to move it over if it's an issue for you.
OK, I've asked the Mods to move it.
Quote from: Aoise on August 20, 2009, 01:21:45 AM
Maguire I have a question for you - what exactly did the hunger strikers do that you find so offensive?
I find this interesting everytime I see Irish men falling for stupid DUP tactics. The hunger strikers killed themselves! Who, apart from themselves and their families did they hurt by taking this extreme action? I've heard many unionists secretly admitting that they didn't know what to do after the hunger strikes because they couldn't play the victim or the martyr. A community celebrating this SELF Sacrafice in their local GAA club should not be heckled and demonised by any Irish man or woman. The hunger strikes should instead be analysed to see their significance, because whether you like it or not Maguire, if it hadn't have been for their actions, republicans would have taken much longer to politicise themselves and who knows how much longer the troubles would have lasted.
Political correctness can sometimes be a dangerous revisionist tactic. Just because something seems wrong in todays modern peaceful society, does not mean that it can be decontextualised and judged by the same standards, as we all know, you could have been shot dead yourself walking to a GAA ground in the early 80's, maybe then you wouldn't have been so quick to apply your PC outlook to those who fought and died for the right to walk to our grounds in peace.
2nd prize in the 'Complete Provie Bollix' competition. Just as detached from reality as the winner, but lacking the purple prose of the first place entry.
7 pages in and no owc comment on this! and i thought they peeked over into the gaa section every now and then.
for what its worth i would have no problem with a hunger strike commeroration (and admire the hunger strikers for their principles) but it should not be held at a gaa ground. no political event whatsoever should be left near the place and that includes ff/fg etc. . it has sweet f all to do with the gaa and should not be there
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 20, 2009, 06:35:39 PM
Quote from: Aoise on August 20, 2009, 01:21:45 AM
Maguire I have a question for you - what exactly did the hunger strikers do that you find so offensive?
I have no problem with the hunger strikers, nor am I offended by them. And I would defend the right of anyone who wants to commemorate them. I just don't think that GAA grounds should be used for such events - there are plenty of alternatives.
But therein lies the problem Maguire! The GAA is made up of a populace of opinion. I and many other GAA men and women think that a GAA ground is a good place to hold these events, for a start, in rural communities its quite often the only appropriate venue, or should I say the only possible venue and also, many of these men who died were very active members of the GAA. Just because you feel it shouldn't be held there does not and should not take precedence over those who do. Its not a fascist organisation thank god and nor should it be. A GAA club is for many, not just the local sports ground but usually the centre of that community. For many, not so long ago, that community was united in support for those men who committed self sacrafice. Luckily, not everyone has short memories!
Also if you have no problem with the hunger strikers and your not offended by them as you say, then why shouldn't it be held in a GAA club? Is it not just true to say that as soon as Unionists start attacking the GAA your political correctness overides some sense of logic , because it sounds as though you know deep down that lif we choose to be we can be offended by anything we want!
Quote
But therein lies the problem Maguire! The GAA is made up of a populace of opinion. I and many other GAA men and women think that a GAA ground is a good place to hold these events, for a start, in rural communities its quite often the only appropriate venue, or should I say the only possible venue and also, many of these men who died were very active members of the GAA. Just because you feel it shouldn't be held there does not and should not take precedence over those who do. Its not a fascist organisation thank god and nor should it be. A GAA club is for many, not just the local sports ground but usually the centre of that community. For many, not so long ago, that community was united in support for those men who committed self sacrafice. Luckily, not everyone has short memories!
Also if you have no problem with the hunger strikers and your not offended by them as you say, then why shouldn't it be held in a GAA club? Is it not just true to say that as soon as Unionists start attacking the GAA your political correctness overides some sense of logic , because it sounds as though you know deep down that lif we choose to be we can be offended by anything we want!
My question would be why was it held on the football field. I've seen dozens of these marches in south armagh and I've dont recall any speeches on football fields, the speeches generally take place in the graveyards or on the road, why was it moved to the GAA field in this case?
Why shouldnt it be held be held in a GAA club? because the GAA is a sporting organisation, no political views should have the monopoly in the GAA. If a club wants to hold something in memory of a deceased member then fair enough but when it comes to having Sinn Fein on a lorry in the football field it becomes political and the GAA should not be involved.
I couldnt give a shite what some bigotted unionist thinks or spouts, I care about the GAA being used by political parties and I care about our own members who don't share our views on the hunger strikers.
what he said
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 09:33:37 PM
Quote
But therein lies the problem Maguire! The GAA is made up of a populace of opinion. I and many other GAA men and women think that a GAA ground is a good place to hold these events, for a start, in rural communities its quite often the only appropriate venue, or should I say the only possible venue and also, many of these men who died were very active members of the GAA. Just because you feel it shouldn't be held there does not and should not take precedence over those who do. Its not a fascist organisation thank god and nor should it be. A GAA club is for many, not just the local sports ground but usually the centre of that community. For many, not so long ago, that community was united in support for those men who committed self sacrafice. Luckily, not everyone has short memories!
Also if you have no problem with the hunger strikers and your not offended by them as you say, then why shouldn't it be held in a GAA club? Is it not just true to say that as soon as Unionists start attacking the GAA your political correctness overides some sense of logic , because it sounds as though you know deep down that lif we choose to be we can be offended by anything we want!
My question would be why was it held on the football field. I've seen dozens of these marches in south armagh and I've dont recall any speeches on football fields, the speeches generally take place in the graveyards or on the road, why was it moved to the GAA field in this case?
Why shouldnt it be held be held in a GAA club? because the GAA is a sporting organisation, no political views should have the monopoly in the GAA. If a club wants to hold something in memory of a deceased member then fair enough but when it comes to having Sinn Fein on a lorry in the football field it becomes political and the GAA should not be involved.
I couldnt give a shite what some bigotted unionist thinks or spouts, I care about the GAA being used by political parties and I care about our own members who don't share our views on the hunger strikers.
Perhaps Galbally Pearses GFC may had something to do with that, or do you think they shouldnt be allowed to
assist in organising such commerations?
They shouldnt be involved in organising political events, no.
What really galls me about this whole thing is that that McCausland bigot suddenly knows the GAA Rulebook so well he is able to state thet the Galbally episode was contravening Rule 7a. Yet, only a couple of weeks ago , he claimed that he didn't even know that Tyrone were All Ireland Champions.
When he was in Donegal recently and was about to return home , he was asked by the TV reporter would he be taking in the beautiful scenery that he would witness on the route. He couldn t even bring himself to say that Donegal was a nice place to view. He muttered someting about being too busy reading Government papers to have time to look out the window.
The GAA can expect nothing from our Government as long as that arsehole is in it.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:01:42 PM
They shouldnt be involved in organising political events, no.
I dont believe it was a political event. It was a commeration to mark the death of one of the Hunger Strikers.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:01:42 PM
They shouldnt be involved in organising political events, no.
I dont believe it was a political event. It was a commeration to mark the death of one of the Hunger Strikers.
If a political party thinks centre stage it's a political event.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:30:01 PM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:01:42 PM
They shouldnt be involved in organising political events, no.
I dont believe it was a political event. It was a commeration to mark the death of one of the Hunger Strikers.
If a political party thinks centre stage it's a political event.
Ill agree with you that Sinn Fein were one of the main organisers, as were other local groups, as were Galbally GFC. However
it was a commeration, not a political event or rally, just the same as the previous Friday night in Strule Arts Centre in Omagh.
However on this point you have your opinion & i have mine.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 10:40:46 PM
However on this point you have your opinion & i have mine.
I suppose that is exactly it. We're bedeviled on this island where one man's (group's) commemoration is entirely something different to some body (group) else.
That's it Frank, but the day that I would be concerned about what a 'press exist here to offend' dinosaur like Mc Causland thinks is the day that I'll hang up the spurs.
The notion that the GAA is not a political organisation is a little flawed.
As has been noted in a number of other places, the preface to the GAA's constitution includes the following;
"Those who play its games, those who organise its activities and those who control its destinies see in the G.A.A.a means of consolidating our Irish identity. The games to them are more than games - they have a national significance - and the promotion of native pastimes becomes a part of the full national ideal, which envisages the speaking of our own language, music and dances. The primary purpose of the G.A.A. is the organisation of native pastimes and the promotion of athletic fitness as a means to create a disciplined, self- reliant, national-minded manhood. The overall result is the expression of a people's preference for native ways as opposed to imported ones."
"Since she has no control over all the national territory, Ireland's claim to nationhood is impaired. It would be still more impaired if she were to lose her language, if she failed to provide a decent livelihood for her people at home, or if she were to forsake her own games and customs in favour of the games and customs of another nation. If pride in the attributes of nationhood dies, something good and distinctive in our race dies with it. Each national quality that is lost makes us so much poorer as a Nation. Today, the native games take on a new significance when it is realised that they have been a part, and still are a part, of the Nation's desire to live her own life, to govern her own affairs."
This is hardly the preface to an organisation that has no political inclination, whether that be party political or not. The GAA is a nationalistic body. Furthermore we already have clubs and grounds named after patriots, so lets stop the nonsense, the GAA is a nationalist organisation. While I understand some people have genuine concerns (not Nelson however), the usual suspects (I'm a long time reader, first time poster) have appeared to continue with the usual Sinn Féin bashing that can usually be found in the non- GAA discussion.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2009, 10:53:10 PM
That's it Frank, but the day that I would be concerned about what a 'press exist here to offend' dinosaur like Mc Causland thinks is the day that I'll hang up the spurs.
My old man, Frank Senior, has a saying about fellows like that - "Some mothers do have them - and the b**tards do live". You're right though - lots of fellows can be suprisingly thin skinned when it suits.
QuoteThe GAA is a nationalistic body.
That's fine, but that does not mean it's a Sinn Fein one.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:30:01 PM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:01:42 PM
They shouldnt be involved in organising political events, no.
I dont believe it was a political event. It was a commemoration to mark the death of one of the Hunger Strikers.
If a political party thinks centre stage it's a political event.
Why? If the Green part Organised tree planting in Galbally would that make the planting of trees a political event?
SF (or any other party) do not own the Hungerstrikers. The Hunger strike is a huge part of our history and one Worth educating all the people of the island on, in particular the young. To highlight it by way of commemoration and generate discussion around it is a success. We might do better to remember the Hungerstrikers rather than the side show of SF, the SDlP, rule 7a and McCausland.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:57:43 PM
That's fine, but that does not mean it's a Sinn Fein one.
The SDLP (and DUP and UUP) were invited, but were otherwise disposed, apparently.
Quote from: Zapatista on August 20, 2009, 11:21:51 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:30:01 PM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:01:42 PM
They shouldnt be involved in organising political events, no.
I dont believe it was a political event. It was a commemoration to mark the death of one of the Hunger Strikers.
If a political party thinks centre stage it's a political event.
Why? If the Green part Organised tree planting in Galbally would that make the planting of trees a political event?
SF (or any other party) do not own the Hungerstrikers. The Hunger strike is a huge part of our history and one Worth educating all the people of the island on, in particular the young. To highlight it by way of commemoration and generate discussion around it is a success. We might do better to remember the Hungerstrikers rather than the side show of SF, the SDlP, rule 7a and McCausland.
Zap, that would depend on whether you wanted to pick holes or not :-[
Quote from: Zapatista on August 20, 2009, 11:21:51 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:30:01 PM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:01:42 PM
They shouldnt be involved in organising political events, no.
I dont believe it was a political event. It was a commemoration to mark the death of one of the Hunger Strikers.
If a political party thinks centre stage it's a political event.
Why? If the Green part Organised tree planting in Galbally would that make the planting of trees a political event?
SF (or any other party) do not own the Hungerstrikers. The Hunger strike is a huge part of our history and one Worth educating all the people of the island on, in particular the young. To highlight it by way of commemoration and generate discussion around it is a success. We might do better to remember the Hungerstrikers rather than the side show of SF, the SDlP, rule 7a and McCausland.
you'd have a job convincing sinn fein of that...
QuoteWhy? If the Green part Organised tree planting in Galbally would that make the planting of trees a political event?
If they were planting the trees for members of their party or people connected to their party and making speechs then yes it would be political.
I agree no one owns the hunger strikers zapatista but that's of little relevence to this and who was responsible for organising it.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 11:28:10 PM
you'd have a job convincing sinn fein of that...
It's called leadership.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 11:28:10 PM
you'd have a job convincing sinn fein of that...
Are you in SF as I'm having a job convincing you of it.
I'm sure if any GAA member has a problem with the commemoration being held at Galbally GFC / Galbally Community
Centre, then i suppose they could bring it up at their next club meeting, who could in turn have it raised at their
County Executive, who would or could then bring it to the attention of the Ulster Council, if they really felt that
strongly about it, that is.
Quote from: Aoise on August 20, 2009, 09:08:47 PM
Luckily, not everyone has short memories!
People with long memories will also remember when Sinn Fein used GAA clubs as recruitment grounds for volunteers at the time of the hunger strikes.
Now I was about a year old, and can only go on what I've been told by my father. But he fought to keep Sinn Fein out at the time, and luckily succeeded.
Why does being Irish have to involve some sort of political struggle? All my nationalist tendancies have been and are based on the Irish culture: language, sport, music, dance. Similar to what I believe the GAA is based on. Irish by what we do in our everyday lives, not by aligning ourselves with past 'heroes'.
Maybe this is a generation thing. And it's prob right and good that the generation who weren't around at the time are coming along behind.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 11:42:01 PM
I'm sure if any GAA member has a problem with the commemoration being held at Galbally GFC / Galbally Community
Centre, then i suppose they could bring it up at their next club meeting, who could in turn have it raised at their
County Executive, who would or could then bring it to the attention of the Ulster Council, if they really felt that
strongly about it, that is.
Aye, that's likely to happen or they're likely to be heard. And what club member would raise issues about the club with the county executive or ulster council?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 11:46:32 PM
Aye, that's likely to happen or they're likely to be heard. And what club member would raise issues about the club with the county executive or ulster council?
Get a small club in Roscommon to do it.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 11:46:32 PM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 11:42:01 PM
I'm sure if any GAA member has a problem with the commemoration being held at Galbally GFC / Galbally Community
Centre, then i suppose they could bring it up at their next club meeting, who could in turn have it raised at their
County Executive, who would or could then bring it to the attention of the Ulster Council, if they really felt that
strongly about it, that is.
Aye, that's likely to happen or they're likely to be heard. And what club member would raise issues about the club with the county executive or ulster council?
Why wouldnt it? Are you saying your club or the Ulster Council would turn a deaf ear to any concerns you might have
on this issue/
Quote from: Rois on August 20, 2009, 11:43:04 PM
Why does being Irish have to involve some sort of political struggle?
That you ask such a question is a sign of real progress Rois.
Quote from: Rois on August 20, 2009, 11:43:04 PM
All my nationalist tendancies have been and are based on the Irish culture: language, sport, music, dance. Similar to what I believe the GAA is based on. Irish by what we do in our everyday lives, not by aligning ourselves with past 'heroes'.
Again, that's progress. Time was when that was enough to have you severely inconvenienced, with the complicity of the powers that were.
Maybe some of us can't forget what it took to arrive there.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 11:51:43 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 11:46:32 PM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 11:42:01 PM
I'm sure if any GAA member has a problem with the commemoration being held at Galbally GFC / Galbally Community
Centre, then i suppose they could bring it up at their next club meeting, who could in turn have it raised at their
County Executive, who would or could then bring it to the attention of the Ulster Council, if they really felt that
strongly about it, that is.
Aye, that's likely to happen or they're likely to be heard. And what club member would raise issues about the club with the county executive or ulster council?
Why wouldnt it? Are you saying your club or the Ulster Council would turn a deaf ear to any concerns you might have
on this issue/
I can't see that happening, most club members worry about their own clubs first and foremost and concentrate on that at committee meetings. I dont know what it would achieve anyway.
Fear, you're of on a tangent, that has nothing to do with what we're discussing.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 11:57:21 PM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 11:51:43 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 11:46:32 PM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 11:42:01 PM
I'm sure if any GAA member has a problem with the commemoration being held at Galbally GFC / Galbally Community
Centre, then i suppose they could bring it up at their next club meeting, who could in turn have it raised at their
County Executive, who would or could then bring it to the attention of the Ulster Council, if they really felt that
strongly about it, that is.
Aye, that's likely to happen or they're likely to be heard. And what club member would raise issues about the club with the county executive or ulster council?
Why wouldnt it? Are you saying your club or the Ulster Council would turn a deaf ear to any concerns you might have
on this issue/
I can't see that happening, most club members worry about their own clubs first and foremost and concentrate on that at committee meetings. I dont know what it would achieve anyway.
Fear, you're of on a tangent, that has nothing to do with what we're discussing.
Correct, but a few posters on here feel that this matter is a big enough to be a GAA issue, not just Galbally or their
own club. So surely if that is the case then it should be brought to the attention of the powers that be in whatever
way possible? Or maybe its just not that big a deal at all?
Quote from: Rois on August 20, 2009, 11:43:04 PM
Quote from: Aoise on August 20, 2009, 09:08:47 PM
Luckily, not everyone has short memories!
People with long memories will also remember when Sinn Fein used GAA clubs as recruitment grounds for volunteers at the time of the hunger strikes.
Now I was about a year old, and can only go on what I've been told by my father. But he fought to keep Sinn Fein out at the time, and luckily succeeded.
Why does being Irish have to involve some sort of political struggle? All my nationalist tendancies have been and are based on the Irish culture: language, sport, music, dance. Similar to what I believe the GAA is based on. Irish by what we do in our everyday lives, not by aligning ourselves with past 'heroes'.
Maybe this is a generation thing. And it's prob right and good that the generation who weren't around at the time are coming along behind.
Rois On my calculation I'm exactly the same age as you, so its not a generation thing!
Secondly, all of those things you believe Irish Nationalism to be, I believe in also, however, whether you choose to agree or not, the political struggle was in defense of these things and are therefore intrinsically linked to my Nationalist tendencies. I accept that you are a GAA follower and Irish person, can't I be the same with my belief that Nationalism, the GAA and the political struggle weren't that far removed from each other? Do I have the same right?
I also don't know why Sinn Fein is constantly being mentioned in this. You have illustrated you and your fathers disdain for Sinn Fein, however the GAA was involved and connected to political struggle long before the troubles or the modern day Sinn Fein established itself. And whether you like it or not, some Sinn Fein members and sympathisers are also ardent Gaa people, are they not entitled to be? The GAA is not just the arena for PC plods and SDLPers.
unbelievable that when asked a couple of months back, did he know that Tyrone were All ireland champions..... he said he didn;t, yet he knows more about rule 7A than me :o
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 11:57:21 PM
Fear, you're of on a tangent, that has nothing to do with what we're discussing.
Was addressing Rois's (valid) points pints, though you're right in that they're not directly relevant here.
Quote from: Aoise on August 21, 2009, 12:30:51 AM
Quote from: Rois on August 20, 2009, 11:43:04 PM
Quote from: Aoise on August 20, 2009, 09:08:47 PM
Luckily, not everyone has short memories!
People with long memories will also remember when Sinn Fein used GAA clubs as recruitment grounds for volunteers at the time of the hunger strikes.
Now I was about a year old, and can only go on what I've been told by my father. But he fought to keep Sinn Fein out at the time, and luckily succeeded.
Why does being Irish have to involve some sort of political struggle? All my nationalist tendancies have been and are based on the Irish culture: language, sport, music, dance. Similar to what I believe the GAA is based on. Irish by what we do in our everyday lives, not by aligning ourselves with past 'heroes'.
Maybe this is a generation thing. And it's prob right and good that the generation who weren't around at the time are coming along behind.
Rois On my calculation I'm exactly the same age as you, so its not a generation thing!
Secondly, all of those things you believe Irish Nationalism to be, I believe in also, however, whether you choose to agree or not, the political struggle was in defense of these things and are therefore intrinsically linked to my Nationalist tendencies. I accept that you are a GAA follower and Irish person, can't I be the same with my belief that Nationalism, the GAA and the political struggle weren't that far removed from each other? Do I have the same right?
I also don't know why Sinn Fein is constantly being mentioned in this. You have illustrated you and your fathers disdain for Sinn Fein, however the GAA was involved and connected to political struggle long before the troubles or the modern day Sinn Fein established itself. And whether you like it or not, some Sinn Fein members and sympathisers are also ardent Gaa people, are they not entitled to be? The GAA is not just the arena for PC plods and SDLPers.
Aoise, its called Sinn Fein bashing, wouldn't worry too much about it.
I wrote my views on this 3 times, & I deleted my message all 3 times before publishing, it might have upset too many of our or brothers & sisters from Ulster.
I think the tone of this thread illustrates why precisely there is a need for a rule that the Association is non party political. Jesus H Christ, even when people are agreeing they're disagreeing. As the Chairman said to the Parish Priest "Thanks a lot for that now Father, but that's the kind of shite that sickens my hole"
However, since everyone else has thrown their tuppence in I'll follow suit. Technically, no rules have been broken. End of story. If the Galbally club and the wider Galbally and Cappagh communities haven't an issue with this then I don't see why anyone whose club it doesn't directly effect should be obsessing with it. Every club in the Association is autonomous and self governing - let them get on with it.
Quote from: tyrone86 on August 21, 2009, 01:29:22 AM
I think the tone of this thread illustrates why precisely there is a need for a rule that the Association is non party political. Jesus H Christ, even when people are agreeing they're disagreeing. As the Chairman said to the Parish Priest "Thanks a lot for that now Father, but that's the kind of shite that sickens my hole"
However, since everyone else has thrown their tuppence in I'll follow suit. Technically, no rules have been broken. End of story. If the Galbally club and the wider Galbally and Cappagh communities haven't an issue with this then I don't see why anyone whose club it doesn't directly effect should be obsessing with it. Every club in the Association is autonomous and self governing - let them get on with it.
But this reflects on all members of the association. And I would hesitate to suggest the majority of members esp. in the other 3 Provinces would feal it reflects badly on the association or at least gives a perception that GAA people are raging Republicans who approve of the actions of the hunger strikers. I know for certain I don't approve. Trust me Its shite like this I feal that gets thrown at the likes of me when I try and argue that non-GAA sports should not be played in assoication grounds & once our fellow Irishmen & women in the IRFU & FAI have reuilt their new stadium, they should relocated permanently out of Croke Park.
I was at the commemoration in Galbally on sunday the 16th August and can understand the opposition to the event by a number of posters . First and foremost yes It was sinn fein organised commemoration . secondly it was in the grounds of the football field as well as the community centre and thirdly it dd involve sppeches from politicians reiterating the struggles of the hunger strikers and the relevant political views held by Sinn Fein. Lets not beat about the bush here that what it was . Concerts that night were held in the community centre and many, not all though of the hunger strike families were present.
Galbally football club in my opinion has nothing to be answerable for . It hired out the use of the field to a political party. whether it was remimbursed or not well I am sure a member of the committee will inform you. No member of Galbally Gaelic football club openely stewarded the event other than to ensure safety regulation were up held at the ground. The club itself were not involved in Political discussions or debates. Those who hired out the field used it and left. Across the world sporting grounds are used for political meetings rallies etc . I was at meetings in San sebastion and Bilbao wherby Heirra Batisuna held open air meetings on behalf of the Basque Separtists. Football grounds in America are openly used for political rallies by either democrats or republicans. What is it with rule 7a . Is it because some of what we are saying is unpleasant. Is it because we are afraid of handing Nelson McCausalnd a political stick to beat us with when over half the clubs are called after republican patriots and indeed some even after dead hunger strikers . nelson doesnt need our stick he doesnt want it . He already has all the vitriol he needs against us there and ready for firing.
Lets be clear on this . The Gaa is a microcosm of our society a whole . It reflects the views of the community with which it inhabits . Very often it is the lynch pin of our community and remained so in days when the liight was a lot darker than what it is now. Each area has its own political persuasions . As it happens Galbally is seen as a strong republican area and the club reflect this . The votes at the last election when the ballot boxes for torrent were opened reflected this. I know not everyone in Galbally is a rabid republican and some may well have opposed it but the general feeling within the community is that its fine for Sinn fein to use the field as that is generally how the community feel and the Gaa is a community based organisation. Many other clubs that I know for example may have taken a totally different train of thought and may not have countenanced Sinnfein or the hunger strike commemoration for one moment. My own club would have taken this view.
Whether we like to admit it or not the Gaa is a politcal organisation.It may not be party political but Our clubs are called after Irish patriots in many cases . One of our basic aims is to promote Irish reunification to reflect ireland as one nation by the flying of our national flags at games by the playing of our national Anthem . To promote our culture language etc etc . When we go down this line you must remember that the train will stop at all the stations and more people will climb on board with stronger views etc etc . What happened at Galbally on sunday is only another stop on the way. Every area is different . Martin Hurson was a member of the Galbally club he was, like his family a strong member of the community and the Gaa . Do you think Galbally was going to turn his back on him . If you do well then you need to rethink what Tyrone and galbally are all about (and I am not from Tyrone ) .
If Galbally in the Future want to hire out the club to the SDLP or someother branch of the wider nationalist community it will be because the community decided it and the Gaa are not only central but the center of all that goes on in that area .
ps I respect all those who may not and most likely do not agree with my view point .. sorry for being so long winded.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 01:36:51 AM
Quote from: tyrone86 on August 21, 2009, 01:29:22 AM
I think the tone of this thread illustrates why precisely there is a need for a rule that the Association is non party political. Jesus H Christ, even when people are agreeing they're disagreeing. As the Chairman said to the Parish Priest "Thanks a lot for that now Father, but that's the kind of shite that sickens my hole"
However, since everyone else has thrown their tuppence in I'll follow suit. Technically, no rules have been broken. End of story. If the Galbally club and the wider Galbally and Cappagh communities haven't an issue with this then I don't see why anyone whose club it doesn't directly effect should be obsessing with it. Every club in the Association is autonomous and self governing - let them get on with it.
But this reflects on all members of the association. And I would hesitate to suggest the majority of members esp. in the other 3 Provinces would feal it reflects badly on the association or at least gives a perception that GAA people are raging Republicans who approve of the actions of the hunger strikers. I know for certain I don't approve. Trust me Its shite like this I feal that gets thrown at the likes of me when I try and argue that non-GAA sports should not be played in assoication grounds & once our fellow Irishmen & women in the IRFU & FAI have reuilt their new stadium, they should relocated permanently out of Croke Park.
You really think so? Interesting. Surely then the someone, somewhere in the other 3 provinces would feel the
need to have the Galbally club brought to task for breaking any GAA rules pertaining to the use of their grounds
for a commemoration? And by the way, there were a lot of GAA members there in Sunday, from all over Tyrone.
Surely if they felt that this commemoration was in any way compromising the association, they could have stayed
at home & watched the Hurling semi-finals instead.
Quote from: Rois on August 20, 2009, 11:43:04 PM
People with long memories will also remember when Sinn Fein used GAA clubs as recruitment grounds for volunteers at the time of the hunger strikes.
Now I was about a year old, and can only go on what I've been told by my father. But he fought to keep Sinn Fein out at the time, and luckily succeeded.
Why does being Irish have to involve some sort of political struggle? All my nationalist tendancies have been and are based on the Irish culture: language, sport, music, dance. Similar to what I believe the GAA is based on. Irish by what we do in our everyday lives, not by aligning ourselves with past 'heroes'.
Maybe this is a generation thing. And it's prob right and good that the generation who weren't around at the time are coming along behind.
SF recruiting at a GAA ground in the 80s makes perfest sense. I'd say they were doing the same at mass. People trying to keep them out makes sense too.
I feel lucky that I'm not a Nationalist and therefore not caught up in a silly Nationalist struggle. However, I do like to commemorate the hungerstrikers who give their lives for Human Rights.
I'm not sure which are worse - The Unionists who look for any excuse to be offended or the Pro-Unionist-West-Brit-Huggers in the Free State supporting them who take their freedom and freedom of expression for granted and.
Easy to know none of them have been harassed or abused going to training or mass down through the years, have had innocent colleagues shot through the back of the head going for cigarettes, been stopped and cars stripped to bits for no reason, denied basic human rights or have not been able to get work because their 'face doesn't fit'.
These are the same people are all too happy to condemn Sinn Fein, the IRA and the like but sing Provo songs on holidays in the Canaries and clap when a few drug dealers get summary justice when the Gardai do nothing about it.
Get over it, sure the GAA shouldn't be used nor should it be politicized and we'd all love to keep politics and sport apart, but we don't all have the benefit of 70 years of democracy to be able to do it. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have screwed around more with the GAA and used it more than anyone so get over it and move on.
Great credit has to be given to the Gallbally Gaa and the local community for helping to stage a great tribute to the brave men who gave their lives on hunger strike for the greater good.Who cares what Nelson and all other anti republicans think.Martin Hurson and the other hunger strikers were part of our community so they will always be remembered in the best way possible and if that means using GAA property then so be it.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 20, 2009, 11:28:10 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 20, 2009, 11:21:51 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:30:01 PM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 20, 2009, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 20, 2009, 10:01:42 PM
They shouldnt be involved in organising political events, no.
I dont believe it was a political event. It was a commemoration to mark the death of one of the Hunger Strikers.
If a political party thinks centre stage it's a political event.
Why? If the Green part Organised tree planting in Galbally would that make the planting of trees a political event?
SF (or any other party) do not own the Hungerstrikers. The Hunger strike is a huge part of our history and one Worth educating all the people of the island on, in particular the young. To highlight it by way of commemoration and generate discussion around it is a success. We might do better to remember the Hungerstrikers rather than the side show of SF, the SDlP, rule 7a and McCausland.
you'd have a job convincing sinn fein of that...
a bit daft n'est pas?
as the hunger strikers pre-date the current sf format.
What was there was hastily thrown up to participate in the 1981 Irish general election
so sf can claim all they like, its a bit like england claiming part of Ireland - without merit or real ownership and eventually to go back to the real owners!
Sinn Fein don't claim the hunger strikers,they commemorate them and always will as a lot of the present leadership were their comrades both inside and outside the prison.I would love to see the day that everyone on this island would get out, organise or take part in commemorations to the strikers.
Quote from: Rois on August 20, 2009, 11:43:04 PM
Quote from: Aoise on August 20, 2009, 09:08:47 PM
Luckily, not everyone has short memories!
People with long memories will also remember when Sinn Fein used GAA clubs as recruitment grounds for volunteers at the time of the hunger strikes.
Now I was about a year old, and can only go on what I've been told by my father. But he fought to keep Sinn Fein out at the time, and luckily succeeded.
Why does being Irish have to involve some sort of political struggle? All my nationalist tendancies have been and are based on the Irish culture: language, sport, music, dance. Similar to what I believe the GAA is based on. Irish by what we do in our everyday lives, not by aligning ourselves with past 'heroes'.
Maybe this is a generation thing. And it's prob right and good that the generation who weren't around at the time are coming along behind.
political parties will use any events (IFA, spring show, ploughing championships etc etc) to garner supporters if there is something they can ride on the coat tails of.
Right now when things are bad in the economy, enda kenny appears to lambast ff at any high profile event from teacher conferences to the aforementioned ploughing championships.
Sure the parties even collect for their own coffers outside the gates of mass once a year! Or used to at least.Dont see it as much if at all in dublin.
The GAA kept out of the political thing at that time too.
While a lot of people dont like the notion of GAA grounds being used, this obv does not transgress the current ruling.
Maybe a motion needs to go to congress next year. Then there will be a bit of a row as ff/fg et al wont be happy that they can no longer use GAA grounds and have a central location in each and every parish in the country in the 32 counties. I dont know what the percentage is as to who doesnt mind our grounds being used,but I would not expect enough support for the current rule to be overturned.
Also I didnt see any objection to Jimmy Deenihan, Sean Kelly and John omahony who were very much high profile GAA men in their respective couties and roles yet were known to be heading over to run for FG in elections (and all got elected).
If there is anything borderline political , then surely this is the example rather than idle grounds and buildings being called 'political.
Until the GAA rule is broken, then its all just personal dislike of the usage. No more. No less.
Quote from: glens abu on August 21, 2009, 10:27:21 AM
Sinn Fein don't claim the hunger strikers,they commemorate them and always will as a lot of the present leadership were their comrades both inside and outside the prison.I would love to see the day that everyone on this island would get out, organise or take part in commemorations to the strikers.
true enough, but only because no one else makes the effort to commemorate them.
Eventually as you say , with reunification, the Irish Gov will then do something about it like the 1916 men who are only in recent years being venerated and commemorated instead of being villified.
Sf wont be able to continue to hijack it then.
don't think they hijack anything,I think they help organise them as I think the IRSP and others organise as well its only that more attend the Sinn Fein events as they are the bigger party.Seven of the hunger strikers were members of the same Republican movement as Sinn Fein but they commemorate all 10 but don't try to hide the fact that the other 3 were INLA members and had nothing to do with their movement.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 21, 2009, 10:31:04 AM
Until the GAA rule is broken, then its all just personal dislike of the usage. No more. No less.
Surely the foollwing is direct evidence of a contravention of GAA rules:
Quote from: rionach 4 on August 21, 2009, 02:33:31 AM
I was at the commemoration in Galbally on sunday the 16th August and can understand the opposition to the event by a number of posters . First and foremost yes It was sinn fein organised commemoration . secondly it was in the grounds of the football field as well as the community centre and thirdly it dd involve sppeches from politicians reiterating the struggles of the hunger strikers and the relevant political views held by Sinn Fein. Lets not beat about the bush here that what it was .
while i commend much of what rionach says about the hunger strikers, it is entirely irrelevent to this debate.
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:27:21 AM
I'm not sure which are worse - The Unionists who look for any excuse to be offended or the Pro-Unionist-West-Brit-Huggers in the Free State supporting them who take their freedom and freedom of expression for granted and.
Easy to know none of them have been harassed or abused going to training or mass down through the years, have had innocent colleagues shot through the back of the head going for cigarettes, been stopped and cars stripped to bits for no reason, denied basic human rights or have not been able to get work because their 'face doesn't fit'.
These are the same people are all too happy to condemn Sinn Fein, the IRA and the like but sing Provo songs on holidays in the Canaries and clap when a few drug dealers get summary justice when the Gardai do nothing about it.
Get over it, sure the GAA shouldn't be used nor should it be politicized and we'd all love to keep politics and sport apart, but we don't all have the benefit of 70 years of democracy to be able to do it. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have screwed around more with the GAA and used it more than anyone so get over it and move on.
You see, it's gobshites like you who give northerners a bad name.
I'd wager rightly that i've suffered at least as much as the next man at the hands of the brits and had football interfered with by them far too many times to mention. that is irrelevent.
making the GAA some sort of totem poll for militancy, particularly at a time when we're inching closer to a more entwined community makes no sense in either a sporting or political sense.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 21, 2009, 10:55:42 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 21, 2009, 10:31:04 AM
Until the GAA rule is broken, then its all just personal dislike of the usage. No more. No less.
Surely the foollwing is direct evidence of a contravention of GAA rules:
Quote from: rionach 4 on August 21, 2009, 02:33:31 AM
I was at the commemoration in Galbally on sunday the 16th August and can understand the opposition to the event by a number of posters . First and foremost yes It was sinn fein organised commemoration . secondly it was in the grounds of the football field as well as the community centre and thirdly it dd involve sppeches from politicians reiterating the struggles of the hunger strikers and the relevant political views held by Sinn Fein. Lets not beat about the bush here that what it was .
while i commend much of what rionach says about the hunger strikers, it is entirely irrelevent to this debate.
aw come on
where in that piece does it say that GAA people are making or endorsing what anyone from sf says ?
THAT would be breaking the rules.
re-read that rule you posted. From what rionach describes above there is still nothing tha contravenes the rule.
Do you not read what you post yourself ?
Unless something political eminates from GAA mouths or on behalf of the GAA or that GAA people in their capacity as GAA representatives endorse what political stuff has been said, then there still as yet and to my knowledge has never been, a breaking of the rules.
If that was the case then the culprit should be taken to task.
However so far this is all peoples reaction to their dislike of GAA premises and grounds being used.
Ergo, the GAA are NOT a political organisation and these are NOt politicising the GAA !
If anyone can come up with something different, no amount of rewording or whinging about this will make it so.
You don't think the Galbally club has "taken part" in this event?
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 21, 2009, 11:43:21 AM
You don't think the Galbally club has "taken part" in this event?
was the clubhouse waving sf banners or something?
PEOPLE took part in the event who could be members of the GAA as well as members of the master bakers of Ireland association, it does NOT indicate or mean that the GAA have supported or endorsed this (or that the master bakers of Ireland support ay political event or support sf etc etc etc).
as I said you can try to word and indicate where you like but so far there has been nothing that contravenes the GAA rules and nothing that politicises the GAA .
FFS !
You are going a bit dougal-esque here !
Barry McElduff in the Irish News yesterday said that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have both recently held political events in GAA grounds in the South. If that is true then I don't see the issue with Sinn Féin doing the same thing though it would be fair to say I think that there would be have been historically more SF events at GAA grounds / clubhouses in the north than FF / FG events at GAA venues in the South.
Basically I think Croke Park needs to provide some clarification and guidance here. Does the hiring of GAA grounds / property to a political party for their use for a limited period of time for events organised by that party breach the GAA rules? If so, then the practice should stop and there should be no hiring of venues by SF, FG, FF, the SDLP or indeed the DUP or UUP were they so inclined.
My own view would be that it would be preferable to allow clubs to continue to hire their property to political parties. As well as enforcing our role as a provider of community facilities, it is a small income stream. But obviously this should apply to all parties.
Rightly or wrongly there would be those who would see the playing of the English Anthem at Croke Park as more offensive than a hungerstrike commemoration at Pearse Park, and Im sure the opposite applies. Each to their own is probably the best way forward.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 21, 2009, 11:00:15 AM
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:27:21 AM
I'm not sure which are worse - The Unionists who look for any excuse to be offended or the Pro-Unionist-West-Brit-Huggers in the Free State supporting them who take their freedom and freedom of expression for granted and.
Easy to know none of them have been harassed or abused going to training or mass down through the years, have had innocent colleagues shot through the back of the head going for cigarettes, been stopped and cars stripped to bits for no reason, denied basic human rights or have not been able to get work because their 'face doesn't fit'.
These are the same people are all too happy to condemn Sinn Fein, the IRA and the like but sing Provo songs on holidays in the Canaries and clap when a few drug dealers get summary justice when the Gardai do nothing about it.
Get over it, sure the GAA shouldn't be used nor should it be politicized and we'd all love to keep politics and sport apart, but we don't all have the benefit of 70 years of democracy to be able to do it. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have screwed around more with the GAA and used it more than anyone so get over it and move on.
You see, it's gobshites like you who give northerners a bad name.
I'd wager rightly that i've suffered at least as much as the next man at the hands of the brits and had football interfered with by them far too many times to mention. that is irrelevent.
making the GAA some sort of totem poll for militancy, particularly at a time when we're inching closer to a more entwined community makes no sense in either a sporting or political sense.
don't talk shite!! i live in the heights in coleraine! not much entwined round here i'll tell ya!
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
This is purely a question? It is a question, but I am unaware of why each of these men where in prison. Where any of these men convicted of murder, accessory to murder or any other form of terrorism or other crime?
Irish Free State 1922-1937, the correct name for the current 26 county Republic is Ireland (it is not called the Republic of Ireland for that matter either). Maybe those people who regularly bash the Independent State/Country and are neither tax-payers or residents won't want to be an Irish Passport Holder either. Bashing Ireland (Independent State) and claiming it does not exist, then applying for a passport of that country is hypocrisy. I am also proud to be part of the Irish nation (32 counties) land from the Island of Ireland. Sorry rant over, but we are allowed to disagree too.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:53:13 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. maggie thatcher did indeed say crime is crime is crime. pleased to see you are aligning yourself with that war criminal.
This is purely a question? It is a question, but I am unaware of why each of these men where in prison. Where any of these men convicted of murder, accessory to murder or any other form of terrorism or other crime?
Irish Free State 1922-1937, the correct name for the current 26 county Republic is Ireland (it is not called the Republic of Ireland for that matter either). Maybe those people who regularly bash the Independent State/Country and are neither tax-payers or residents won't be wanting an Irish Passport Holders either. Bashing Ireland (Independent State) and claiming it does not exist, then applying for a passport of that country is hypocracy. I am also proud to be part of the Irish nation (32 counties) land from the Island of Ireland. Sorry rant over, but we are allowed to disagree too.
in your opinion should IRELAND, the country you talk of, have 26 or 32 counties??
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 12:57:19 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:53:13 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. maggie thatcher did indeed say crime is crime is crime. pleased to see you are aligning yourself with that war criminal.[/i]
So because I am against terrorism I agree with that evil bitch, ok I get it, because I believe in having good roads I must like Hitler & because I'm Catholic I must agree with the Crusades, because I read books I think we should cut down all the rainforests. The U.N. should do something about me, eh!
This is purely a question? It is a question, but I am unaware of why each of these men where in prison. Where any of these men convicted of murder, accessory to murder or any other form of terrorism or other crime?
Irish Free State 1922-1937, the correct name for the current 26 county Republic is Ireland (it is not called the Republic of Ireland for that matter either). Maybe those people who regularly bash the Independent State/Country and are neither tax-payers or residents won't be wanting an Irish Passport Holders either. Bashing Ireland (Independent State) and claiming it does not exist, then applying for a passport of that country is hypocracy. I am also proud to be part of the Irish nation (32 counties) land from the Island of Ireland. Sorry rant over, but we are allowed to disagree too.
in your opinion should IRELAND, the country you talk of, have 26 or 32 counties??
The Island/Nation has 32
The Country/State had 26
The Reality is 26
The Dream would be 32
fair enough. for me, growing up in a town that is 79% protestant and 100% intimidating to catholics the gaa was a way of maintaining our identity. we had no pitch, were openly attacked on many occasions, had threats made to our families and this all when i was an under 16. you can realize that this debate is different for us in the north. with the best will in the world there is nothing sickens us more than moralizing southerners telling us to get over it. you might like to look at the fact it was michael bloody collins dropped us in this shite in the first place!
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 21, 2009, 11:00:15 AM
Quote from: JMohan on August 21, 2009, 07:27:21 AM
I'm not sure which are worse - The Unionists who look for any excuse to be offended or the Pro-Unionist-West-Brit-Huggers in the Free State supporting them who take their freedom and freedom of expression for granted and.
Easy to know none of them have been harassed or abused going to training or mass down through the years, have had innocent colleagues shot through the back of the head going for cigarettes, been stopped and cars stripped to bits for no reason, denied basic human rights or have not been able to get work because their 'face doesn't fit'.
These are the same people are all too happy to condemn Sinn Fein, the IRA and the like but sing Provo songs on holidays in the Canaries and clap when a few drug dealers get summary justice when the Gardai do nothing about it.
Get over it, sure the GAA shouldn't be used nor should it be politicized and we'd all love to keep politics and sport apart, but we don't all have the benefit of 70 years of democracy to be able to do it. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have screwed around more with the GAA and used it more than anyone so get over it and move on.
You see, it's gobshites like you who give northerners a bad name.
I'd wager rightly that i've suffered at least as much as the next man at the hands of the brits and had football interfered with by them far too many times to mention. that is irrelevent.
making the GAA some sort of totem poll for militancy, particularly at a time when we're inching closer to a more entwined community makes no sense in either a sporting or political sense.
::)
Hug a DUP day then is it?
Blind and an idiot. Read the last line of what I said. The GAA should be apolitical, but if some minor thing like this happens - Get to fcuk over it.
Quote from: rrhf on August 21, 2009, 12:29:32 PM
Rightly or wrongly there would be those who would see the playing of the English Anthem at Croke Park as more offensive than a hungerstrike commemoration at Pearse Park, and Im sure the opposite applies. Each to their own is probably the best way forward.
100% agree but you will never stop these people who have a problem with the hunger strikes crying,maybe with some it is a guilty conscience that they or their family sat back at the time and didn't try in any way to support the prisoners.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:58:35 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 12:57:19 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:53:13 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. maggie thatcher did indeed say crime is crime is crime. pleased to see you are aligning yourself with that war criminal.[/i]
So because I am against terrorism I agree with that evil bitch, ok I get it, because I believe in having good roads I must like Hitler & because I'm Catholic I must agree with the Crusades, because I read books I think we should cut down all the rainforests. The U.N. should do something about me, eh![/u]
This is purely a question? It is a question, but I am unaware of why each of these men where in prison. Where any of these men convicted of murder, accessory to murder or any other form of terrorism or other crime?
Irish Free State 1922-1937, the correct name for the current 26 county Republic is Ireland (it is not called the Republic of Ireland for that matter either). Maybe those people who regularly bash the Independent State/Country and are neither tax-payers or residents won't be wanting an Irish Passport Holders either. Bashing Ireland (Independent State) and claiming it does not exist, then applying for a passport of that country is hypocracy. I am also proud to be part of the Irish nation (32 counties) land from the Island of Ireland. Sorry rant over, but we are allowed to disagree too.
in your opinion should IRELAND, the country you talk of, have 26 or 32 counties??
The Island/Nation has 32
The Country/State had 26
The Reality is 26
The Dream would be 32
of course not. but you were using one of her famous quotes at the time of the hunger strikes. so the corollary is you are either being deliberately offensive or ignorant of the historical and political sensitivity of the issue.
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 01:03:19 PM
fair enough. for me, growing up in a town that is 79% protestant and 100% intimidating to catholics the gaa was a way of maintaining our identity. we had no pitch, were openly attacked on many occasions, had threats made to our families and this all when i was an under 16. you can realize that this debate is different for us in the north. with the best will in the world there is nothing sickens us more than moralizing southerners telling us to get over it. you might like to look at the fact it was michael bloody collins dropped us in this shite in the first place!
Micheal Collins did not drop us in this shit, Eamon DeValera dropped Collins in it. We had no choice, absolutly no choice, the Brits would have erased the Irish people green & orange alike. They had no problem gassing the Kurds. The fact that there is an Irish State, has kept the dream of a free Ireland alive. Had the Irish Free State and the bravery of Collins to take the tough choice happened, we would be a 32 county Kingdom of Ireland within the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland, Irish nationalism would be no more than it is in Scotland or Wales, in fact Irish nationalists would probably be members of Irish wings of the British parties, with a few Irish nationalist ones offering themselves up to prop up on British administration or another, we would be like many a Scot I meet, proud Scot, always giving it large about the English, shouting on about Braveheart, then joining the British army and flying off to Iraq or Afganistan. Only for the bravery of the few to take the right choice, we are not like the loveable but delusional Scottish semi-nationalist cousins.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:53:13 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
This is purely a question? It is a question, but I am unaware of why each of these men where in prison. Where any of these men convicted of murder, accessory to murder or any other form of terrorism or other crime?
Irish Free State 1922-1937, the correct name for the current 26 county Republic is Ireland (it is not called the Republic of Ireland for that matter either). Maybe those people who regularly bash the Independent State/Country and are neither tax-payers or residents won't want to be an Irish Passport Holder either. Bashing Ireland (Independent State) and claiming it does not exist, then applying for a passport of that country is hypocrisy. I am also proud to be part of the Irish nation (32 counties) land from the Island of Ireland. Sorry rant over, but we are allowed to disagree too.
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, not just in Ireland but wherever conflicts are taking place.
thanks for all the help you and your men gave us during the persecution of CATHOLICS from 1921 on.
we were
GHETTOISED
DISENFRACHISED
KEPT FROM EMPLOYMENT
RELIGOUSLY PERSECUTED
the only thing missing was a swastika
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 01:10:07 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:58:35 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 12:57:19 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:53:13 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. maggie thatcher did indeed say crime is crime is crime. pleased to see you are aligning yourself with that war criminal.[/i]
So because I am against terrorism I agree with that evil bitch, ok I get it, because I believe in having good roads I must like Hitler & because I'm Catholic I must agree with the Crusades, because I read books I think we should cut down all the rainforests. The U.N. should do something about me, eh![/u]
This is purely a question? It is a question, but I am unaware of why each of these men where in prison. Where any of these men convicted of murder, accessory to murder or any other form of terrorism or other crime?
Irish Free State 1922-1937, the correct name for the current 26 county Republic is Ireland (it is not called the Republic of Ireland for that matter either). Maybe those people who regularly bash the Independent State/Country and are neither tax-payers or residents won't be wanting an Irish Passport Holders either. Bashing Ireland (Independent State) and claiming it does not exist, then applying for a passport of that country is hypocracy. I am also proud to be part of the Irish nation (32 counties) land from the Island of Ireland. Sorry rant over, but we are allowed to disagree too.
in your opinion should IRELAND, the country you talk of, have 26 or 32 counties??
The Island/Nation has 32
The Country/State had 26
The Reality is 26
The Dream would be 32
of course not. but you were using one of her famous quotes at the time of the hunger strikes. so the corollary is you are either being deliberately offensive or ignorant of the historical and political sensitivity of the issue.
Neither its just my view on terrorism.
Like you said above I did not experience growing up in Northern Ireland. Often people in the North don't like us expressing any views on the 6 counties, which is a bit like saying your view of an ideal Irish State is where we can't have an opinion about 6 Ulster counties but you can have an opinion on 26 Connacht, Munster, Leinster & Ulster counties, that most of you did not grow up in and many have never lived in. You might notice many people in 25 of those 26 counties have a hostility towards 1 (Dublin) you don't understand the Culchies!!! (or maybe the Jackeens either) why do they slag our great! capital, sure some of it is historic fun, some of it is football, but alot of it (especially from people from the West of the Shannon) or the extreme West of Munster is down to paying taxes to a government in a Capital city that takes those taxes, then removes our services, doesn't improve infrastructure (in fact takes up railways) A Capital City(County) & surrounding counties that soak up all the development & tax money. About 3 years ago (about the time I stopped reading the FF mouthpiece) the Irish Independent printed a report that showed that the top two counties for producing graduates where 1. Galway & 2. Mayo, Clare, Kerry & Cork came next, with Sligo, Roscommon, Limerick, Tipp & Leitrim next. Out of the West = Taxes, Services, Graduates & skilled Labourers. Into the East = Taxes, Services, Graduates & skilled Labourers. You see we have things to moan about too, but nearly to a man any Nordie (excuse the term, I have used Culchie & Jackeen already) I meet thinks we have no right to these things and we should love the capital of the romantic 32 future super Ireland.
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 01:03:19 PM
fair enough. for me, growing up in a town that is 79% protestant and 100% intimidating to catholics the gaa was a way of maintaining our identity. we had no pitch, were openly attacked on many occasions, had threats made to our families and this all when i was an under 16. you can realize that this debate is different for us in the north. with the best will in the world there is nothing sickens us more than moralizing southerners telling us to get over it. you might like to look at the fact it was michael bloody collins dropped us in this shite in the first place!
Not strictly true. Had Collins been alive when the Boundary Commission was convened in 1925, he would have not been bullied like Eoin MacNeill was. MacNeill simply wasn't cut out for the job and Collins would have hammered out a better deal and the map of Ireland would look very different.
The North wasn't really a big issue in the Treaty debates because people believed that the inclusion of the Boundary Commission in the clauses of the Treaty would address this issue.
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 01:03:19 PM
fair enough. for me, growing up in a town that is 79% protestant and 100% intimidating to catholics the gaa was a way of maintaining our identity. we had no pitch, were openly attacked on many occasions, had threats made to our families and this all when i was an under 16. you can realize that this debate is different for us in the north. with the best will in the world there is nothing sickens us more than moralizing southerners telling us to get over it. you might like to look at the fact it was michael bloody collins dropped us in this shite in the first place!
I wonder sometimes why "yous" even want to be part of the same country as us "sountherners" at times.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 06:34:44 PM
Surprised this hasn't been posted already...
why were you surprised this had not already been posted?
surely the blighted views of Nelson McCausland merit no mention on a GAA forum?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 06:34:44 PMIt's a shame yet again that some people have felt it appropriate to use a GAA ground for such activities. And all it does is give the DUP another stick to beat the Association with.
why is it a shame?
and for who?
surely this is a decision for the people of Galbally, and the GAA community in County Tyrone to decide upon.
how does it affect you what the club facilities in Galbally are used for?
The 1981 Hunger Strike was a pivotal and emotional time for all Gaels on the island of Ireland, and the lives of the ten brave men who lost their lives deserve to be celebrated.
County Tyrone lost Vol. Martin Hurson during the Hunger Strike and the people of his local community (and the wider republican family) are completely within their rights to celebrate this young man's life within the locality.
Obviously this is another act of political point scoring by the DUP who are only concerned in the seeming rise in popularity by the TUV following the recent European Elections.
Shame on the SDLP for lowering themselves (once again) into siding with hardline unionism, and commenting on yet another 'non-issue'.
Tír Eoghain Abú!!
TÁL!!
Quote from: bingobus on August 21, 2009, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 01:03:19 PM
fair enough. for me, growing up in a town that is 79% protestant and 100% intimidating to catholics the gaa was a way of maintaining our identity. we had no pitch, were openly attacked on many occasions, had threats made to our families and this all when i was an under 16. you can realize that this debate is different for us in the north. with the best will in the world there is nothing sickens us more than moralizing southerners telling us to get over it. you might like to look at the fact it was michael bloody collins dropped us in this shite in the first place!
I wonder sometimes why "yous" even want to be part of the same country as us "sountherners" at times.
I'd pass no remarks if that came from someone in D4 but coming from a man who is the width of a pen stroke in 1921 away from having sterling as his currency it's short of amazing.
well said mohan.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 21, 2009, 01:40:39 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 01:03:19 PM
fair enough. for me, growing up in a town that is 79% protestant and 100% intimidating to catholics the gaa was a way of maintaining our identity. we had no pitch, were openly attacked on many occasions, had threats made to our families and this all when i was an under 16. you can realize that this debate is different for us in the north. with the best will in the world there is nothing sickens us more than moralizing southerners telling us to get over it. you might like to look at the fact it was michael bloody collins dropped us in this shite in the first place!
Not strictly true. Had Collins been alive when the Boundary Commission was convened in 1925, he would have not been bullied like Eoin MacNeill was. MacNeill simply wasn't cut out for the job and Collins would have hammered out a better deal and the map of Ireland would look very different.
The North wasn't really a big issue in the Treaty debates because people believed that the inclusion of the Boundary Commission in the clauses of the Treaty would address this issue.
the fact that there was a boundary commission at all was due to the deal collins signed in london after being thoroughly outsmarted by llyod george. the rest is just conjecture. stick to facts.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:53:13 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
great stuff!
someone with a Michael Collins avatar spouting Maggie Thatcherisms.
:o
Just what a GAA forum needs.
well done muppet.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 01:10:07 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:58:35 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 12:57:19 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:53:13 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. maggie thatcher did indeed say crime is crime is crime. pleased to see you are aligning yourself with that war criminal.[/i]
So because I am against terrorism I agree with that evil bitch, ok I get it, because I believe in having good roads I must like Hitler & because I'm Catholic I must agree with the Crusades, because I read books I think we should cut down all the rainforests. The U.N. should do something about me, eh![/u]
This is purely a question? It is a question, but I am unaware of why each of these men where in prison. Where any of these men convicted of murder, accessory to murder or any other form of terrorism or other crime?
Irish Free State 1922-1937, the correct name for the current 26 county Republic is Ireland (it is not called the Republic of Ireland for that matter either). Maybe those people who regularly bash the Independent State/Country and are neither tax-payers or residents won't be wanting an Irish Passport Holders either. Bashing Ireland (Independent State) and claiming it does not exist, then applying for a passport of that country is hypocracy. I am also proud to be part of the Irish nation (32 counties) land from the Island of Ireland. Sorry rant over, but we are allowed to disagree too.
in your opinion should IRELAND, the country you talk of, have 26 or 32 counties??
The Island/Nation has 32
The Country/State had 26
The Reality is 26
The Dream would be 32
of course not. but you were using one of her famous quotes at the time of the hunger strikes. so the corollary is you are either being deliberately offensive or ignorant of the historical and political sensitivity of the issue.
Neither its just my view on terrorism.
Like you said above I did not experience growing up in Northern Ireland. Often people in the North don't like us expressing any views on the 6 counties, which is a bit like saying your view of an ideal Irish State is where we can't have an opinion about 6 Ulster counties but you can have an opinion on 26 Connacht, Munster, Leinster & Ulster counties, that most of you did not grow up in and many have never lived in. You might notice many people in 25 of those 26 counties have a hostility towards 1 (Dublin) you don't understand the Culchies!!! (or maybe the Jackeens either) why do they slag our great! capital, sure some of it is historic fun, some of it is football, but alot of it (especially from people from the West of the Shannon) or the extreme West of Munster is down to paying taxes to a government in a Capital city that takes those taxes, then removes our services, doesn't improve infrastructure (in fact takes up railways) A Capital City(County) & surrounding counties that soak up all the development & tax money. About 3 years ago (about the time I stopped reading the FF mouthpiece) the Irish Independent printed a report that showed that the top two counties for producing graduates where 1. Galway & 2. Mayo, Clare, Kerry & Cork came next, with Sligo, Roscommon, Limerick, Tipp & Leitrim next. Out of the West = Taxes, Services, Graduates & skilled Labourers. Into the East = Taxes, Services, Graduates & skilled Labourers. You see we have things to moan about too, but nearly to a man any Nordie (excuse the term, I have used Culchie & Jackeen already) I meet thinks we have no right to these things and we should love the capital of the romantic 32 future super Ireland.
You can add in Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal there also as having its services etc taken away.West of the Shannon are not the only areas discriminated against in terms of distribution of taxpayers money. the last time I checked the trains still run to Mayo.
We can all cry and whinge about discrimination in parts of the Republic but lets be honest I don't think anybody who grew up in the Republic over the last 40 years could ever compare their hardship to the hardship and suffering encountered by the majority Nationalists/Republicans/Catholics in the 6 counties.If you do,then you are kidding yourself.
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 02:59:16 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:53:13 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
great stuff!
someone with a Michael Collins avatar spouting Maggie Thatcherisms.
:o
Just what a GAA forum needs.
well done muppet.
Ya & I can tell you anyone calling themselves the IRA after 1922 are terrorist criminals in my mind. The Irish people voted for the Treaty, the Irish people voted for The Good Friday Agreement. I am not spouting Thatcher I am saying that Terrorism is a criminal act, if she said the same, then that means that wow 2 people in a planet with 6 billion people once said the same obvious thing.
are you norman tebbit in disguise? if a territory is gerrymandered is it truly a democracy? you spout utter nonsense fella! you keep your tory love in there! i'd be angry if your weren't so obviously a tit.
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 02:42:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 06:34:44 PM
Surprised this hasn't been posted already...
why were you surprised this had not already been posted?
surely the blighted views of Nelson McCausland merit no mention on a GAA forum?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 06:34:44 PMIt's a shame yet again that some people have felt it appropriate to use a GAA ground for such activities. And all it does is give the DUP another stick to beat the Association with.
why is it a shame?
and for who?
surely this is a decision for the people of Galbally, and the GAA community in County Tyrone to decide upon.
how does it affect you what the club facilities in Galbally are used for?
The 1981 Hunger Strike was a pivotal and emotional time for all Gaels on the island of Ireland, and the lives of the ten brave men who lost their lives deserve to be celebrated. WAS IT REALLY, WAS IT, WAS IT, WAS IT? I am a Gael carrying a Gaelic surnname, a clan that has been in this area for at least 1,500 years, if you DARE say I'm not a Gael you truely are an idiot.
County Tyrone lost Vol. Martin Hurson during the Hunger Strike and the people of his local community (and the wider republican family) are completely within their rights to celebrate this young man's life within the locality.
Obviously this is another act of political point scoring by the DUP who are only concerned in the seeming rise in popularity by the TUV following the recent European Elections.
Shame on the SDLP for lowering themselves (once again) into siding with hardline unionism, and commenting on yet another 'non-issue'.
Tír Eoghain Abú!!
TÁL!!
True Gael this, true Gael that, bloody hell what racist drivel. Its often people with feck all Gaelic ancestory that spout this.
what has ancestry got to do with it. we all came from spain and northern france anyway. and those who didn't are vikings or saxons!
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
Ya & I can tell you anyone calling themselves the IRA after 1922 are terrorist criminals in my mind. The Irish people voted for the Treaty, the Irish people voted for The Good Friday Agreement. I am not spouting Thatcher I am saying that Terrorism is a criminal act, if she said the same, then that means that wow 2 people in a planet with 6 billion people once said the same obvious thing.
Pre 1922 the IRA were also classified as criminals by the powers that were, they executed them FFS.
You've just spouted the ultimate in hypocrisy -- those fighting for my freedom are freedom fighters, but those fighting for your freedom (in the same country from the same occupier) are criminals. Oh boy.
And if you want to talk about elections in the period, don't gloss over the election of 1918, which secured an SF majority for all Ireland.
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 03:20:35 PM
are you norman tebbit in disguise? if a territory is gerrymandered is it truly a democracy? you spout utter nonsense fella! you keep your tory love in there! i'd be angry if your weren't so obviously a tit.
Feck off will ya, there you go throwing around West Brit stuff, everyone knows that the Northern Ireland is a false entity that has no historical reference, except the ones it has created for itself since partition. Ulster would have made more sense, but the Brits knew that it might not take long for Nationalists to outvote Unionists. The Treaty had to happen because the British would have destroyed us all. The people knew the implications of voting for or against the Treaty, they voted for. The Good Friday Agreement was voted for North & South of the Border. Can people not accept that alot of people think what the Hunger Strikers did was Wrong, & many people can't stand Sinn Fein.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
Ya & I can tell you anyone calling themselves the IRA after 1922 are terrorist criminals in my mind.
...and what part of the six counties are you from mo chara?
The Bogside?
The Falls?
South Armagh?
South Derry?
Somewhere in Tyrone perhaps?
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population since their emergence in 1969 when people were being burnt out of their homes whilst the Free State 'Government' "stood idly by"
How an army born to defend an oppressed and under seige native community can be branded "terrorist" is beyond me...
???
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
The Irish people voted for the Treaty, the Irish people voted for The Good Friday Agreement.
yeah...where did i say they didn't?
what is your point here?!?
???
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PMI am not spouting Thatcher I am saying that Terrorism is a criminal act, if she said the same, then that means that wow 2 people in a planet with 6 billion people once said the same obvious thing.
it was quoted before, and i'll say it again, "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".
Without those who gave up their lives on the 1981 Hunger Strike there would never have been such a thing as political status for prisoners - republican or otherwise.
as for being in the same camp with Maggie, whatever makes you happy..it just was not so "obvious" for myself and the majority of my community during the Troubles...
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 02:42:47 PM
The 1981 Hunger Strike was a pivotal and emotional time for all Gaels on the island of Ireland, and the lives of the ten brave men who lost their lives deserve to be celebrated. WAS IT REALLY, WAS IT, WAS IT, WAS IT? I am a Gael carrying a Gaelic surnname, a clan that has been in this area for at least 1,500 years, if you DARE say I'm not a Gael you truely are an idiot.
True Gael this, true Gael that, bloody hell what racist drivel. Its often people with feck all Gaelic ancestory that spout this.
another great point well argued.
where did i claim you weren't a true Gael?
& how could such a thing be classified as racist??
one thing we will agree on, you are an idiot.
;)
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:35:03 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 02:42:47 PM
The 1981 Hunger Strike was a pivotal and emotional time for all Gaels on the island of Ireland, and the lives of the ten brave men who lost their lives deserve to be celebrated. WAS IT REALLY, WAS IT, WAS IT, WAS IT? I am a Gael carrying a Gaelic surnname, a clan that has been in this area for at least 1,500 years, if you DARE say I'm not a Gael you truely are an idiot.
True Gael this, true Gael that, bloody hell what racist drivel. Its often people with feck all Gaelic ancestory that spout this.
another great point well argued.
where did i claim you weren't a true Gael?
& how could such a thing be classified as racist??
one thing we will agree on, you are an idiot.
;)
Typical, just because someone disagrees with you, at least you don't shoot people for that anymore, or do you?
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 21, 2009, 01:40:39 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 01:03:19 PM
fair enough. for me, growing up in a town that is 79% protestant and 100% intimidating to catholics the gaa was a way of maintaining our identity. we had no pitch, were openly attacked on many occasions, had threats made to our families and this all when i was an under 16. you can realize that this debate is different for us in the north. with the best will in the world there is nothing sickens us more than moralizing southerners telling us to get over it. you might like to look at the fact it was michael bloody collins dropped us in this shite in the first place!
Not strictly true. Had Collins been alive when the Boundary Commission was convened in 1925, he would have not been bullied like Eoin MacNeill was. MacNeill simply wasn't cut out for the job and Collins would have hammered out a better deal and the map of Ireland would look very different.
The North wasn't really a big issue in the Treaty debates because people believed that the inclusion of the Boundary Commission in the clauses of the Treaty would address this issue.
the fact that there was a boundary commission at all was due to the deal collins signed in london after being thoroughly outsmarted by llyod george. the rest is just conjecture. stick to facts.
That is absolute nonsense. The Irish delegation were well aware travelling to London that a republic was never going to be on the table. This was clear from the truce negotiations.
As for Collins being outsmarted by Lloyd George - Collins didn't even lead the delegation, Arthur Griffith did. They were hoping for some sort of External Association for Ireland and it was Robert Barton as a solicitor who did most of the talking for the Irish side. The Treaty was the best that could have been hoped for. The IRA was already on its knees in Munster and G-Division were getting closer and closer to getting GHQ in Dublin. Had the Treaty been rejected the British would have crushed the IRA within months. The full-force of British artillery would have flushed out the flying columns in the hills of West Cork, Kerry, Limerick and Tipperary. Resistance elsewhere in the country outside of the IRA strongholds in Munster would have been futile. The Treaty afforded Ireland the opportunity to avoid this bloodshed and achieve further concessions through political negotiation.
The north was not an issue during the Treaty debates in the Mansion House because the Boundary Commission, had it functioned correctly would have solved this issue. It was believed that the alteration of the border would have left the north as too small a political entity to exist on its own and it would eventually be subsumed into the Irish Free State. However, Eoin MacNeill was a poor choice as he lacked conviction and he eventually resigned from the Commission after some of its contents were leaked to the press. Had Collins been alive in 1925 he would have undoubtedly hammered out a better deal because the British had a grudging respect for him. The mystique and aura that surrounded Collins would have afforded him some bargaining room. The madness of the Civil War had denied him the opportunity to build on the Treaty though so it is grossly unfair to suggest that Collins had sold Nationalists in the north down the river in 1921.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:38:41 PM
Typical, just because someone disagrees with you, at least you don't shoot people for that anymore, or do you?
ah yes, because me calling you an idiot for your incoherent 'argument' is so much worse than you calling me an idiot after claiming i said something which i clearly did not...sound logic.
i notice you failed to answer any of the actual questions posed in my response...google/wiki running a bit slow for you today?
;)
shoot people?
:o
sure did you not hear about decommisioning!!!
:'(
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
ah yes, the "hundreds"...
...hard to beat a concrete argument/statistic like that.
well done.
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
Ya & I can tell you anyone calling themselves the IRA after 1922 are terrorist criminals in my mind.
...and what part of the six counties are you from mo chara?
The Bogside?
The Falls?
South Armagh?
South Derry?
Somewhere in Tyrone perhaps?
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population since their emergence in 1969 when people were being burnt out of their homes whilst the Free State 'Government' "stood idly by" Was this a Free State Government in exile, because only an idiot would not know that the Free State did not exist in 1969.How an army born to defend an oppressed and under seige native community can be branded "terrorist" is beyond me...
???
Because of all the pubs, offices & streets they blew up killing people & destroying property. Thats why.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
The Irish people voted for the Treaty, the Irish people voted for The Good Friday Agreement.
yeah...where did i say they didn't?
what is your point here?!?
???
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PMI am not spouting Thatcher I am saying that Terrorism is a criminal act, if she said the same, then that means that wow 2 people in a planet with 6 billion people once said the same obvious thing.
it was quoted before, and i'll say it again, "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".
Without those who gave up their lives on the 1981 Hunger Strike there would never have been such a thing as political status for prisoners - republican or otherwise.
as for being in the same camp with Maggie, whatever makes you happy..it just was not so "obvious" for myself and the majority of my community during the Troubles...
Im not in the same camp as Maggie Thatcher, the British, the Tory party, etc. etc. camp
Ulster Council GAA statement..
Following recent reports of events at Galbally GAA Club, County Tyrone, the Central Council of the GAA have asked the Ulster Council GAA to establish the facts of the occurrences and the involvement of the Association in these events, if any. This process, the Council have already set in train and will issue a full statement of our findings in due course. The Ulster Council have had no direct or indirect involvement in this affair to date.
The GAA is a non party political organisation that is protective of its Rules and Constitution. The Association at County, Provincial and Central level were not aware of the events at Galbally GAA Club until after the events had taken place. The Ulster Council GAA are working to establish the exact circumstances surrounding these events that took place at Cappagh, Co. Tyrone on Sunday 16th August.
The GAA has clear policies in relation to the use of its property for non-sporting events detailed in our Rules which outlines the role of Central Council in respect to the control of property owned or controlled by a constituent unit of the GAA. The Association is a non party political and anti sectarian organisation whose position has been determined democratically by GAA Congress.
blah, blah...
FFS.... is this all to appease Nelson McCausland and his cohorts who would close every GAA ground in the country if they could? It would be scapegoating of the worst kind if Galbally are punished as loads of clubs hold tournaments to IRA volunteers etc. Also a lot of clubs in Tyrone mentioned the Galbally commemoration in their club notes... should they all be punished as well? If Galbally get punished Tyrone clubs should make some form of protest action.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 02:59:16 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 12:53:13 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
great stuff!
someone with a Michael Collins avatar spouting Maggie Thatcherisms.
:o
Just what a GAA forum needs.
well done muppet.
Ya & I can tell you anyone calling themselves the IRA after 1922 are terrorist criminals in my mind. The Irish people voted for the Treaty, the Irish people voted for The Good Friday Agreement. I am not spouting Thatcher I am saying that Terrorism is a criminal act, if she said the same, then that means that wow 2 people in a planet with 6 billion people once said the same obvious thing.
[/q
Surely it all depends on your definition of terrorism? Pre '22 the IRA are'nt terrorists yet after '22 they are? How so?
Quote from: longrunsthefox on August 21, 2009, 03:52:14 PM
Ulster Council GAA statement..
Following recent reports of events at Galbally GAA Club, County Tyrone, the Central Council of the GAA have asked the Ulster Council GAA to establish the facts of the occurrences and the involvement of the Association in these events, if any. This process, the Council have already set in train and will issue a full statement of our findings in due course. The Ulster Council have had no direct or indirect involvement in this affair to date.
The GAA is a non party political organisation that is protective of its Rules and Constitution. The Association at County, Provincial and Central level were not aware of the events at Galbally GAA Club until after the events had taken place. The Ulster Council GAA are working to establish the exact circumstances surrounding these events that took place at Cappagh, Co. Tyrone on Sunday 16th August.
The GAA has clear policies in relation to the use of its property for non-sporting events detailed in our Rules which outlines the role of Central Council in respect to the control of property owned or controlled by a constituent unit of the GAA. The Association is a non party political and anti sectarian organisation whose position has been determined democratically by GAA Congress.
blah, blah...
FFS.... is this all to appease Nelson McCausland and his cohorts who would close every GAA ground in the country if they could? It would be scapegoating of the worst kind if Galbally are punished as loads of clubs hold tournaments to IRA volunteers etc. Also a lot of clubs in Tyrone mentioned the Galbally commemoration in their club notes... should they all be punished as well? If Galbally get punished Tyrone clubs should make some form of protest action.
have to agree with you there fox
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
ah yes, the "hundreds"...
...hard to beat a concrete argument/statistic like that.
well done.
Well, that's me told! Silly of me to try punching above my weight.
Just to help me out, though - how many would be an acceptable number, if "hundreds" is indeed wrong?
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
Indeed, or what had the murder of a guard in Adare got to do with the struggle for Irish freedom??
Similarly the bombing of Mountbatten's boat in Sligo which also claimed the life of an innocent 15yo. Especially considering recent documents released have shown that Mountbatten was in favour of Irish unification.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:50:26 PM
Im not in the same camp as Maggie Thatcher, the British, the Tory party, etc. etc. camp
why do you insist on quoting entire posts of mine, then refuse to answer any of the questions posed directly to you in your replies?!?
:o
you can insist all you want that you're not in the same camp as Maggie Thatcher all you want, but as long as you keep repeating the same rhetoric as her you are only convincing yourself a chara.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 21, 2009, 04:14:53 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
Indeed, or what had the murder of a guard in Adare got to do with the struggle for Irish freedom??
Similarly the bombing of Mountbatten's boat in Sligo which also claimed the life of an innocent 15yo. Especially considering recent documents released have shown that Mountbatten was in favour of Irish unification.
Enough already! Soloheadbeg was a great operation though, wasn't it?
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 21, 2009, 04:02:17 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on August 21, 2009, 03:52:14 PM
FFS.... is this all to appease Nelson McCausland and his cohorts who would close every GAA ground in the country if they could? It would be scapegoating of the worst kind if Galbally are punished as loads of clubs hold tournaments to IRA volunteers etc. Also a lot of clubs in Tyrone mentioned the Galbally commemoration in their club notes... should they all be punished as well? If Galbally get punished Tyrone clubs should make some form of protest action.
have to agree with you there fox
good point well made...
...at least someone on this topic can argue a point.
;D
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 04:18:37 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 21, 2009, 04:14:53 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
Indeed, or what had the murder of a guard in Adare got to do with the struggle for Irish freedom??
Similarly the bombing of Mountbatten's boat in Sligo which also claimed the life of an innocent 15yo. Especially considering recent documents released have shown that Mountbatten was in favour of Irish unification.
Enough already! Soloheadbeg was a great operation though, wasn't it?
No Soloheadbeg was not a great operation - but neither were Kilmichael, Crossbarry etc.
Incidentally Soloheadbeg was not authorised by the Volunteer GHQ. Mulcahy in particular expressed his revulsion when he was informed of it. Breen and Treacy were loose cannons who believed that Sinn Féin were timid and would never achieve anything. Dan Breen himself was quoted that "if there had to be dead peelers at all, six would have created a better impression than two".
Them "peelers" were Irishmen born and bred like many of the other RIC and DMP members who were killed by the IRA during the Tan War.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 21, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
No Soloheadbeg was not a great operation - but neither were Kilmichael, Crossbarry etc.
In truth the War of Independence was no cleaner and no more noble than 1969-1997, but that's the way that wars are. And if you want to cast a critical eye over the operations of that period at this remove I'd prefer not to read about it on a sports board (I've heard it a thousand times before). I've already asked the Mods to move this thread to the General Discussion board, but they don't seem to be listening.
Hardy would have informants fraternising freely with operatives it would seem, which would be great for a few drunken nights, but would be totally useless as an effective way of prosecuting that war. And whether it sits comfortably with yourself and Hardy or not, the reality is that for that particular period, PIRA gave psychological succour to a good percentage of Republicans and Nationalists in a statelet that was severely inimical towards them.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 04:40:32 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 21, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
No Soloheadbeg was not a great operation - but neither were Kilmichael, Crossbarry etc.
In truth the War of Independence was no cleaner and no more noble than 1969-1997, but that's the way that wars are. And if you want to cast a critical eye over the operations of that period at this remove I'd prefer not to read about it on a sports board (I've heard it a thousand times before). I've already asked the Mods to move this thread to the General Discussion board, but they don't seem to be listening.
Hardy would have informants fraternising freely with operatives it would seem, which would be great for a few drunken nights, but would be totally useless as an effective way of prosecuting that war. And whether it sits comfortably with yourself and Hardy or not, the reality is that for that particular period, PIRA gave psychological succour to a good percentage of Republicans and Nationalists in a statelet that was severely inimical towards them.
Exactly. Some will argue that they had a mandate from the 1918 election but how many of the population voted for war?? You only need to read the conflicting accounts of the Kilmichael Ambush to realise that the Tan War was as dirty as the recent northern troubles.
all wars are dirty and should be avoided. unfortunately in 1969 we didn't really have much choice. come to coleraine and see how equal this society is and how wearing a gaelic top can put the lives of you and your families at risk. these are the facts of the situation here. we are supposed to be in a peaceful society yet we have people on here agreeing with nelson mccausland ffs!! the man is the foulest of the foul and people who stoop to try and placate these people are living in a dream world. come up here for a look around sometime!!
Quote from: Aoise on August 20, 2009, 09:08:47 PM
But therein lies the problem Maguire! The GAA is made up of a populace of opinion. I and many other GAA men and women think that a GAA ground is a good place to hold these events, for a start, in rural communities its quite often the only appropriate venue, or should I say the only possible venue and also, many of these men who died were very active members of the GAA. Just because you feel it shouldn't be held there does not and should not take precedence over those who do.
And surely as such my opinion is every bit as valid. You think it was an appropriate, location; I don't. Maybe it could have been held in the local Church, but no doubt many people wouldn't find that appropriate, and understandably so.
Quote from: Aoise on August 21, 2009, 12:30:51 AM
I also don't know why Sinn Fein is constantly being mentioned in this.
It should be pretty obvious. It was a SF event, was it not?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:01:53 PM
Quote from: Aoise on August 20, 2009, 09:08:47 PM
But therein lies the problem Maguire! The GAA is made up of a populace of opinion. I and many other GAA men and women think that a GAA ground is a good place to hold these events, for a start, in rural communities its quite often the only appropriate venue, or should I say the only possible venue and also, many of these men who died were very active members of the GAA. Just because you feel it shouldn't be held there does not and should not take precedence over those who do.
And surely as such my opinion is every bit as valid. You think it was an appropriate, location; I don't. Maybe it could have been held in the local Church, but no doubt many people wouldn't find that appropriate, and understandably so.
the same local churches who wouldn't let dead republicans be buried with the flag of their country??
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 02:42:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 06:34:44 PM
Surprised this hasn't been posted already...
why were you surprised this had not already been posted?
surely the blighted views of Nelson McCausland merit no mention on a GAA forum?
It's a GAA discussion board - for discussing GAA and GAA related issues. Regardless of the fact that McCausland is clearly a bigot with an undisguised hate for the Association, it's still a valid topic for discussion. And as you've joined in, you must agree.
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 02:42:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2009, 06:34:44 PMIt's a shame yet again that some people have felt it appropriate to use a GAA ground for such activities. And all it does is give the DUP another stick to beat the Association with.
why is it a shame?
and for who?
surely this is a decision for the people of Galbally, and the GAA community in County Tyrone to decide upon.
how does it affect you what the club facilities in Galbally are used for?
I've clearly said why I think it's a shame. And such things can come to have a wider impact; the club is part of an
Association.
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 04:20:01 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 21, 2009, 04:02:17 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on August 21, 2009, 03:52:14 PM
FFS.... is this all to appease Nelson McCausland and his cohorts who would close every GAA ground in the country if they could? It would be scapegoating of the worst kind if Galbally are punished as loads of clubs hold tournaments to IRA volunteers etc. Also a lot of clubs in Tyrone mentioned the Galbally commemoration in their club notes... should they all be punished as well? If Galbally get punished Tyrone clubs should make some form of protest action.
have to agree with you there fox
good point well made...
...at least someone on this topic can argue a point.
;D
You have to love this idea that the only people who can argue or debate a point are those who agree with you. ::)
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 04:40:32 PM
Hardy would have informants fraternising freely with operatives it would seem, which would be great for a few drunken nights, but would be totally useless as an effective way of prosecuting that war.
So let's not beat about the bush - does that mean the murder of Jean McConville was justified?
Quote
And whether it sits comfortably with yourself and Hardy or not, the reality is that for that particular period, PIRA gave psychological succour to a good percentage of Republicans and Nationalists in a statelet that was severely inimical towards them.
That must be why they voted for them in such huge numbers. (I'll take the ritual denials of equivalence between the Armalite and Ballot Box wings as read).
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
ah yes, the "hundreds"...
...hard to beat a concrete argument/statistic like that.
well done.
This isn't really the place for this debate, but of the (approximately) 1,800 people killed by the IRA, it is generally accepted that about 650 were civilians. The IRA apologised for these deaths in 2002.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 21, 2009, 11:30:07 AM
aw come on
where in that piece does it say that GAA people are making or endorsing what anyone from sf says ?
THAT would be breaking the rules.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 21, 2009, 11:30:07 AM
Unless something political eminates from GAA mouths or on behalf of the GAA or that GAA people in their capacity as GAA representatives endorse what political stuff has been said, then there still as yet and to my knowledge has never been, a breaking of the rules.
The endorsement is
implied by allowing the use of the grounds for this event. Do you think the club would have rented out the grounds for a loyalist commemoration? You don't have to explicitly state your endorsement in words to have demonstrated it.
If Windsor Park was opened for a loyalist commemoration, would you not agree that that would imply the IFA's or Linfield's endorsement of the loyalist cause?
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
ah yes, the "hundreds"...
...hard to beat a concrete argument/statistic like that.
well done.
The IRA were responsible for the death of more Catholics than the RUC and the British Army combined. Fact. As your man said, some defending.
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 05:04:57 PM
all wars are dirty and should be avoided. unfortunately in 1969 we didn't really have much choice. come to coleraine and see how equal this society is and how wearing a gaelic top can put the lives of you and your families at risk. these are the facts of the situation here. we are supposed to be in a peaceful society yet we have people on here agreeing with nelson mccausland ffs!! the man is the foulest of the foul and people who stoop to try and placate these people are living in a dream world. come up here for a look around sometime!!
Or travel round the coast a bit to Derry, put a Rangers top on and try walking round the town centre on a Friday night. See how far you get. Then when you get out of Altnagelvin, have a chat with the residents of the Fountain. You'll find you have a lot in common.
Not all the sectarian bigots are prods, and not all the victiims are Catholics.
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.
Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.
Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!
Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.
But thats not balck and white either.
You know and son of sam knows that the convictions as criminals handed down by the Brits on the prisoners was far from balck and white.
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 07:04:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.
But thats not balck and white either.
You know and son of sam knows that the convictions as criminals handed down by the Brits on the prisoners was far from balck and white.
Yes, I understand that. My point is exactly that - there's a loy of grey.
But that doesn't alter the fact that plenty of people convicted for republican activities were guilty as charged and opinions on whether such people were terrorists or heroes or terrorists will generally be determined by their wider political opinion.
And how many people in a civilised democracy are convicted as criminals for stealing a banana for a starving child?
Quote from: longrunsthefox on August 21, 2009, 03:52:14 PM
Ulster Council GAA statement..
Following recent reports of events at Galbally GAA Club, County Tyrone, the Central Council of the GAA have asked the Ulster Council GAA to establish the facts of the occurrences and the involvement of the Association in these events, if any. This process, the Council have already set in train and will issue a full statement of our findings in due course. The Ulster Council have had no direct or indirect involvement in this affair to date.
The GAA is a non party political organisation that is protective of its Rules and Constitution. The Association at County, Provincial and Central level were not aware of the events at Galbally GAA Club until after the events had taken place. The Ulster Council GAA are working to establish the exact circumstances surrounding these events that took place at Cappagh, Co. Tyrone on Sunday 16th August.
The GAA has clear policies in relation to the use of its property for non-sporting events detailed in our Rules which outlines the role of Central Council in respect to the control of property owned or controlled by a constituent unit of the GAA. The Association is a non party political and anti sectarian organisation whose position has been determined democratically by GAA Congress.
blah, blah...
FFS.... is this all to appease Nelson McCausland and his cohorts who would close every GAA ground in the country if they could? It would be scapegoating of the worst kind if Galbally are punished as loads of clubs hold tournaments to IRA volunteers etc. Also a lot of clubs in Tyrone mentioned the Galbally commemoration in their club notes... should they all be punished as well? If Galbally get punished Tyrone clubs should make some form of protest action.
What? Why is a GAA club mentioning a republican commemeration in their notes?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 07:17:06 PM
And how many people in a civilised democracy are convicted as criminals for stealing a banana for a starving child?
I don't know but I know there have been many convicted and imprisoned for doing less.
Looks like today had been designated "I'm a better irish man than you" day. peacetime provos indeed.
those of you talking about mccausland, who did what in the troubles, your da and all of the rest of the smoke screens are entirely missing the point.
surely we all want the gaa to be an inclusive and welcoming sporting organzation? this sort of carry on in gaa clubs makes members of our clubs uncomfortable at best and paints the whole association in an entirely bad light.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 06:44:38 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
ah yes, the "hundreds"...
...hard to beat a concrete argument/statistic like that.
well done.
The IRA were responsible for the death of more Catholics than the RUC and the British Army combined. Fact. As your man said, some defending.
From the Sutton database
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/crosstabs.html
Organisation Catholic Protestant nfNI Totals
British Security 303 43 17 363
Republican Paramilitary 447 981 629 2057
Loyalist Paramilitary 728 234 57 1019
not known 42 30 10 82
Irish Security 1 0 4 5
TOTALS 1521 1288 717 3526
Lads - could we have a good friday agreement on this one?
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 06:44:38 PM
The IRA were responsible for the death of more Catholics than the RUC and the British Army combined. Fact. As your man said, some defending.
Hallelujah, so you concede: the IRA were not sectarian. Religion didn't matter, it was the uniform. And the IRA were not about defending Catholics, it was about defending Republicans and Nationalists. D'oh!
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 06:21:38 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 04:40:32 PM
Hardy would have informants fraternising freely with operatives it would seem, which would be great for a few drunken nights, but would be totally useless as an effective way of prosecuting that war.
So let's not beat about the bush - does that mean the murder of Jean McConville was justified?
Perhaps if you'd any experience of living through it I could take that seriously. From your Meath and Cork redoubts you have no real idea, have you?
And this is what fcuks me off Hardy, the likes of yourself retrospectively pontificating about isolated incidents in a conflict you've no real idea about; a conflict you might have been arsed enough about to be superficially concerned about from afar, but not concerned enough to actually do anything. If any of us nordies actually felt that we had some protection from the IRA, there's nothing you can say or do now to disabuse us of that notion, except to piss us off big-time. You're entitled to do that, of course, but we're not entitled to take that crap without sharp rebuke.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 06:44:38 PM
The IRA were responsible for the death of more Catholics than the RUC and the British Army combined. Fact. As your man said, some defending.
Hallelujah, so you concede: the IRA were not sectarian. Religion didn't matter, it was the uniform. And the IRA were not about defending Catholics, it was about defending Republicans and Nationalists. D'oh!
How sad! You rejoice because the evidence seems to suggest that the IRA were prepared to kill Catholics just as easily as they killed prods. You think that makes them all liberal and tolerant? As for the uniform - most of the IRA 's victims weren't wearing one. What uniform were the victims of Bloody Friday wearing? Birmingham? Guildford? Enniskillen? La Mons? Darkley? Don't make me laugh! Those stats should be carefully examined by everyone on this thread, but particularly the young - those too young to remember the troubles first hand, and who are now fed the lie that the IRA were noble defenders / freedom fighters. They were the mirror image of the UDA / UVF- nothing more, nothing less.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 06:44:38 PM
The IRA were responsible for the death of more Catholics than the RUC and the British Army combined. Fact. As your man said, some defending.
Hallelujah, so you concede: the IRA were not sectarian. Religion didn't matter, it was the uniform. And the IRA were not about defending Catholics, it was about defending Republicans and Nationalists. D'oh!
Well that
would be the case if "sectarianism" was an exclusively religious term. But it also relates to political groupings.
Quote from: rrhf on August 21, 2009, 12:29:32 PM
Rightly or wrongly there would be those who would see the playing of the English Anthem at Croke Park as more offensive than a hungerstrike commemoration at Pearse Park, and Im sure the opposite applies. Each to their own is probably the best way forward.
Ummm no, what would be better would be the GAA sticking to their own rules, without exception.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 21, 2009, 09:40:57 PM
Quote from: rrhf on August 21, 2009, 12:29:32 PM
Rightly or wrongly there would be those who would see the playing of the English Anthem at Croke Park as more offensive than a hungerstrike commemoration at Pearse Park, and Im sure the opposite applies. Each to their own is probably the best way forward.
Ummm no, what would be better would be the GAA sticking to their own rules, without exception.
Indeed. And 'each to their own' wouldn't really be consistent with the idea of a Gaelic Athletic
Association.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 09:37:27 PM
How sad! You rejoice because the evidence seems to suggest that the IRA were prepared to kill Catholics just as easily as they killed prods. You think that makes them all liberal and tolerant? As for the uniform - most of the IRA 's victims weren't wearing one. What uniform were the victims of Bloody Friday wearing? Birmingham? Guildford? Enniskillen? La Mons? Darkley? Don't make me laugh! Those stats should be carefully examined by everyone on this thread, but particularly the young - those too young to remember the troubles first hand, and who are now fed the lie that the IRA were noble defenders / freedom fighters. They were the mirror image of the UDA / UVF- nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not rejoicing at anything, just relieved that you, Lord Lickspittle of Limp-Wristed Lane, finally seem to have grasped something, without your political masters having given you permission. There were mistakes in that war, of course there were; tell about one war where there weren't mistakes. That you have to mention Darkley shows just how devoid and desperate of reason you actually are. Do you actually know who was involved in that shameful incident?
That you equate the UDA and UVF with the IRA shows just how jaundiced you are -- when did the IRA ever perpetrate a Greysteel or Seán Grahams?
You've pathetically attempted to change the subject from your assertion about Catholic victims of the IRA, but since that backfired on you, you now attempt to change the subject. Pathetic.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 09:38:37 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 06:44:38 PM
The IRA were responsible for the death of more Catholics than the RUC and the British Army combined. Fact. As your man said, some defending.
Hallelujah, so you concede: the IRA were not sectarian. Religion didn't matter, it was the uniform. And the IRA were not about defending Catholics, it was about defending Republicans and Nationalists. D'oh!
Well that would be the case if "sectarianism" was an exclusively religious term. But it also relates to political groupings.
Indeed. The RUC, UDR and British Army were/are not political groupings. Or, by your rationale, has every war ever fought been sectarian?
And ask for this thread to be moved to the General Discussion board please, it's fecking political, not sporting.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:51:17 PM
And ask for this thread to be moved to the General Discussion board please, it's fecking political, not sporting.
I'm assuming the mods have ignored your request then?
The 'general discussion' part of the board falls under "Non GAA Discussion". Whilst there's a political element to this discussion, it's clearly relevant to GAA.
As i've said, I won't get excited if it's moved, but i'm not going to do it.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:51:17 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 09:38:37 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 06:44:38 PM
The IRA were responsible for the death of more Catholics than the RUC and the British Army combined. Fact. As your man said, some defending.
Hallelujah, so you concede: the IRA were not sectarian. Religion didn't matter, it was the uniform. And the IRA were not about defending Catholics, it was about defending Republicans and Nationalists. D'oh!
Well that would be the case if "sectarianism" was an exclusively religious term. But it also relates to political groupings.
Indeed. The RUC, UDR and British Army were/are not political groupings. Or, by your rationale, has every war ever fought been sectarian?
The RUC, UDR and British Army aren't polictical? Really?
Sorry I must have clicked the wrong link and wandered into Slugger O'Toole by mistake...
The whole issue of commemoration is an emotive one. We should have the freedom to express or commemorate who we want to, the problem lies in that some expressions of belief will offend others. But this should not be a discussion of how offensive republican commemorations are, instead should they be held on GAA grounds?
My problem is not so much that this was a hunger strike event, rather it was a Sinn Fein event. Why should one political party be allowed the utilise the resources of the GAA for its own ends. SF continually use the deaths of those ten men for its own political ends. In particular OSF, who last week where knocking on doors asking for sponsorship for "A weekend of activities...". Its difficult to say no without being labelled in some areas. I'd be happier giving money for a real charity rather than pay for god knows what for the youth wing of one of the richest political parties in Ireland.
2 points worth noting:
considering McCausland did not know who the current AI champions were, I find it quite extraordinary that he knew that such an event was taking place with no Live/TV coverage in the heart of Tyrone.
Also, if the event should not have taken place at a GAA/community arena, where does McCausland suggest it should have taken place instead? ???
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:17:50 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 06:21:38 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 04:40:32 PM
Hardy would have informants fraternising freely with operatives it would seem, which would be great for a few drunken nights, but would be totally useless as an effective way of prosecuting that war.
So let's not beat about the bush - does that mean the murder of Jean McConville was justified?
Perhaps if you'd any experience of living through it I could take that seriously. From your Meath and Cork redoubts you have no real idea, have you?
And this is what fcuks me off Hardy, the likes of yourself retrospectively pontificating about isolated incidents in a conflict you've no real idea about; a conflict you might have been arsed enough about to be superficially concerned about from afar, but not concerned enough to actually do anything. If any of us nordies actually felt that we had some protection from the IRA, there's nothing you can say or do now to disabuse us of that notion, except to piss us off big-time. You're entitled to do that, of course, but we're not entitled to take that crap without sharp rebuke.
FFS - are having a laugh with that bull shit?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 10:48:11 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:51:17 PM
And ask for this thread to be moved to the General Discussion board please, it's fecking political, not sporting.
I'm assuming the mods have ignored your request then?
It would seem so. An agreeable bunch, didn't have the decency to inform me of such. They want a playground for your like on this board apparently.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 10:48:11 PM
The 'general discussion' part of the board falls under "Non GAA Discussion". Whilst there's a political element to this discussion, it's clearly relevant to GAA.
It seems you don't have the intelligence to distinguish: you have a political axe to grind, which happens to involve the GAA. How you equate that to the football discussion board only you can discern.
The topic could be posted legitimately in either section but in the grand scale of things it is irrelevant.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 21, 2009, 11:58:28 PM
FFS - are having a laugh with that bull shit?
Says the genius who came out with this classic:
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 21, 2009, 11:00:15 AM
... particularly at a time when we're inching closer to a more entwined community makes no sense in either a sporting or political sense.
Been in Rasharkin lately?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 10:49:21 PM
The RUC, UDR and British Army aren't polictical? Really?
OK Maguire, answer my question then: has every war been sectarian?
And this one: Big fan of Bomber Harris are you?
That misty eyed wounded lamb act is frankly embarrassing.
catch yourself on
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 22, 2009, 12:08:22 AM
That misty eyed wounded lamb act is frankly embarrassing.
catch yourself on
Is that the best you can do?
SPIRIT OF FREEDOM SHOWING STRONG
MASSIVE TRIBUTE TO HUNGER STRIKERS IN REPUBLICAN TYRONE
The success of Sunday's National Hunger Strike Commemoration in Galbally, County Tyrone was down to months of hard work by the organisers. Republicans from across the country turned out in their thousands, on Sunday 16 August, to remember the sacrifice of the ten H Block Hunger Strikers as well as Mayomen Michael Gaughan and Frank Stagg who died while imprisoned in England during the 1970s and the 12 other republicans who died on prison fasts in the 20th century.
Sunday's march, the culmination of a weekend of events organised to mark the 28th anniversary of the H Block fast, saw as many as 10,000 people join with representatives of the families of the 1981 Hunger Strikers as they marched through Galbally, the birthplace of Martin Hurson, to a rally at Piarsaigh an Ghallbhaile GAA grounds.
The many banners that were carried along the three mile route were a colourful display of solidarity and a geographical pointer to the fact that people had travelled the length and breadth of Ireland to attend the march. From Tyrone there were banners from Brantry, Eglish, Kileeshill, Loughmacrory and Killyclogher. Then there were banners from Wexford, Dublin and Monaghan. Republican flute bands travelled from Dungiven, Belfast, Strabane, Armagh, Antrim and they all beat out their defiance, to the delight of the crowds. The bands from Scotland were a welcome addition. They are proud republicans who still face the rigours of sectarianism and racism in Scotland as they play their part in the struggle for a united Ireland.
The lines of former POWs came from all over Ireland, bringing their own memories of the prison struggle. The former H Block prisoners reminisced about Bobby, Francie, Ray McCreesh, Patsy, Big Joe, Hurson Boy, Big Doc, Kevin 'Barabbas' Lynch, Big Tom and Red Mick.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:13:10 AM
SPIRIT OF FREEDOM SHOWING STRONG
MASSIVE TRIBUTE TO HUNGER STRIKERS IN REPUBLICAN TYRONE
The success of Sunday's National Hunger Strike Commemoration in Galbally, County Tyrone was down to months of hard work by the organisers. Republicans from across the country turned out in their thousands, on Sunday 16 August, to remember the sacrifice of the ten H Block Hunger Strikers as well as Mayomen Michael Gaughan and Frank Stagg who died while imprisoned in England during the 1970s and the 12 other republicans who died on prison fasts in the 20th century.
Sunday's march, the culmination of a weekend of events organised to mark the 28th anniversary of the H Block fast, saw as many as 10,000 people join with representatives of the families of the 1981 Hunger Strikers as they marched through Galbally, the birthplace of Martin Hurson, to a rally at Piarsaigh an Ghallbhaile GAA grounds.
The many banners that were carried along the three mile route were a colourful display of solidarity and a geographical pointer to the fact that people had travelled the length and breadth of Ireland to attend the march. From Tyrone there were banners from Brantry, Eglish, Kileeshill, Loughmacrory and Killyclogher. Then there were banners from Wexford, Dublin and Monaghan. Republican flute bands travelled from Dungiven, Belfast, Strabane, Armagh, Antrim and they all beat out their defiance, to the delight of the crowds. The bands from Scotland were a welcome addition. They are proud republicans who still face the rigours of sectarianism and racism in Scotland as they play their part in the struggle for a united Ireland.
The lines of former POWs came from all over Ireland, bringing their own memories of the prison struggle. The former H Block prisoners reminisced about Bobby, Francie, Ray McCreesh, Patsy, Big Joe, Hurson Boy, Big Doc, Kevin 'Barabbas' Lynch, Big Tom and Red Mick.
What's that got to do with what we're talking about?
From the photos i've seen, those numbers are as exaggerated as some of the reported attendances at the Tall Ships.
And as PoG has said, none of that is really relevant to what is being discussed.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 12:15:33 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:13:10 AM
SPIRIT OF FREEDOM SHOWING STRONG
MASSIVE TRIBUTE TO HUNGER STRIKERS IN REPUBLICAN TYRONE
The success of Sunday's National Hunger Strike Commemoration in Galbally, County Tyrone was down to months of hard work by the organisers. Republicans from across the country turned out in their thousands, on Sunday 16 August, to remember the sacrifice of the ten H Block Hunger Strikers as well as Mayomen Michael Gaughan and Frank Stagg who died while imprisoned in England during the 1970s and the 12 other republicans who died on prison fasts in the 20th century.
Sunday's march, the culmination of a weekend of events organised to mark the 28th anniversary of the H Block fast, saw as many as 10,000 people join with representatives of the families of the 1981 Hunger Strikers as they marched through Galbally, the birthplace of Martin Hurson, to a rally at Piarsaigh an Ghallbhaile GAA grounds.
The many banners that were carried along the three mile route were a colourful display of solidarity and a geographical pointer to the fact that people had travelled the length and breadth of Ireland to attend the march. From Tyrone there were banners from Brantry, Eglish, Kileeshill, Loughmacrory and Killyclogher. Then there were banners from Wexford, Dublin and Monaghan. Republican flute bands travelled from Dungiven, Belfast, Strabane, Armagh, Antrim and they all beat out their defiance, to the delight of the crowds. The bands from Scotland were a welcome addition. They are proud republicans who still face the rigours of sectarianism and racism in Scotland as they play their part in the struggle for a united Ireland.
The lines of former POWs came from all over Ireland, bringing their own memories of the prison struggle. The former H Block prisoners reminisced about Bobby, Francie, Ray McCreesh, Patsy, Big Joe, Hurson Boy, Big Doc, Kevin 'Barabbas' Lynch, Big Tom and Red Mick.
What's that got to do with what we're talking about?
Maybe to show that it was a Hunger Strike commemoration, supported from all over the country and not a Sinn Fein rally as has been suggested by some?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 22, 2009, 12:00:54 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 10:48:11 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:51:17 PM
And ask for this thread to be moved to the General Discussion board please, it's fecking political, not sporting.
I'm assuming the mods have ignored your request then?
It would seem so. An agreeable bunch, didn't have the decency to inform me of such. They want a playground for your like on this board apparently.
My like? As opposed to
your like?
Surely there's nothing wrong with a discussion board where people with different opinions can discuss and debate?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 22, 2009, 12:00:54 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 10:48:11 PM
The 'general discussion' part of the board falls under "Non GAA Discussion". Whilst there's a political element to this discussion, it's clearly relevant to GAA.
It seems you don't have the intelligence to distinguish: you have a political axe to grind, which happens to involve the GAA. How you equate that to the football discussion board only you can discern.
Firstly, I have no problem discussing political matters and often do, in the general discussion area.
As for intelligence... well i thought that posting this in a specifically
NON GAA section would be a bit stupid. It's also much more likely to be hijacked by people who have no interest whatsoever in GAA. Furthermore, this is not a 'football' discission board - it's a
GAA discussion board.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
Maybe to show that it was a Hunger Strike commemoration, supported from all over the country and not a Sinn Fein rally as has been suggested by some?
How does that show that it wasn't a SF rally? Who
did organise it?
Also, out of interest, what's the source of that piece?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:29:41 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
Maybe to show that it was a Hunger Strike commemoration, supported from all over the country and not a Sinn Fein rally as has been suggested by some?
How does that show that it wasn't a SF rally? Who did organise it?
Also, out of interest, what's the source of that piece?
Can you use Google at all? As was stated before, it was organised by Sinn Fein, the NGA, & other local groupings.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:26:27 AM
My like? As opposed to your like?
Surely there's nothing wrong with a discussion board where people with different opinions can discuss and debate?
Firstly, I have no problem discussing political matters and often do, in the general discussion area.
As for intelligence... well i thought that posting this in a specifically NON GAA section would be a bit stupid. It's also much more likely to be hijacked by people who have no interest whatsoever in GAA. Furthermore, this is not a 'football' discission board - it's a GAA discussion board.
Look at the some of the contributors to this particular thread, who are now suffering from all sorts of malaises since they're well out of their natural habitats. In a week of the semi-final of the All-Ireland Football (remember that there's a hurling-specific board, and a local GAA board, in addition to the General board), you've managed to pollute the board with political crap. And it is crap, that's been cycled and recycled through a million times before. Well done.
I don't think that this posting was worth the effort, since it has done nothing but afford the usual suspects the opportunity to have a bash. Usually we can avoid that crap here, but not now.Thanks.
Quote from: redhandluke on August 21, 2009, 11:41:31 PM
2 points worth noting:
considering McCausland did not know who the current AI champions were, I find it quite extraordinary that he knew that such an event was taking place with no Live/TV coverage in the heart of Tyrone.
Also, if the event should not have taken place at a GAA/community arena, where does McCausland suggest it should have taken place instead? ???
Forget about McCausland - he's largely irrelevant and will have an issue with the GAA no matter what. No doubt the media went to McCausland and told him what had happened so that they had a 'reaction' to report. No doubt also, that some of his 'team' looked up the GAA rule book so that he could drop the reference. McCausland is a disctraction to the issue.
As for where it could have taken place... any other field?
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:29:41 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
Maybe to show that it was a Hunger Strike commemoration, supported from all over the country and not a Sinn Fein rally as has been suggested by some?
How does that show that it wasn't a SF rally? Who did organise it?
Also, out of interest, what's the source of that piece?
Can you use Google at all? As was stated before, it was organised by Sinn Fein, the NGA, & other local groupings.
Why should I google it? You posted it.
So, after all that it wasn't a Sinn Fein rally, but they organised it. Good to have that cleared up. :P
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:36:14 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:29:41 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
Maybe to show that it was a Hunger Strike commemoration, supported from all over the country and not a Sinn Fein rally as has been suggested by some?
How does that show that it wasn't a SF rally? Who did organise it?
Also, out of interest, what's the source of that piece?
Can you use Google at all? As was stated before, it was organised by Sinn Fein, the NGA, & other local groupings.
Why should I google it? You posted it.
So, after all that it wasn't a Sinn Fein rally, but they organised it. Good to have that cleared up. :P
Yeah of course youre right. No one else had any input into it. It was Sinn Fein Political Rally, no if's, but's or maybe's &
the Pearses club were willing co-horts, so should be banned for at least 48 weeks. Happy now? has that cleared everything
up for you?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 22, 2009, 12:33:23 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:26:27 AM
My like? As opposed to your like?
Surely there's nothing wrong with a discussion board where people with different opinions can discuss and debate?
Firstly, I have no problem discussing political matters and often do, in the general discussion area.
As for intelligence... well i thought that posting this in a specifically NON GAA section would be a bit stupid. It's also much more likely to be hijacked by people who have no interest whatsoever in GAA. Furthermore, this is not a 'football' discission board - it's a GAA discussion board.
Look at the some of the contributors to this particular thread, who are now suffering from all sorts of malaises since they're well out of their natural habitats. In a week of the semi-final of the All-Ireland Football (remember that there's a hurling-specific board, and a local GAA board, in addition to the General board), you've managed to pollute the board with political crap. And it is crap, that's been cycled and recycled through a million times before. Well done.
I don't think that this posting was worth the effort, since it has done nothing but afford the usual suspects the opportunity to have a bash. Usually we can avoid that crap here, but not now.Thanks.
And thank you for keeping it alive. :P
But seriously, it's hardly 'polluting' the board - it's one thread. There's plenty of space on the front page to discuss every aspect of the semi-finals.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:36:14 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:29:41 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
Maybe to show that it was a Hunger Strike commemoration, supported from all over the country and not a Sinn Fein rally as has been suggested by some?
How does that show that it wasn't a SF rally? Who did organise it?
Also, out of interest, what's the source of that piece?
BTW Maguire, I stated about 6 pages back who the organisers were.
Can you use Google at all? As was stated before, it was organised by Sinn Fein, the NGA, & other local groupings.
Why should I google it? You posted it.
So, after all that it wasn't a Sinn Fein rally, but they organised it. Good to have that cleared up. :P
BTW Maguire, I posted about 6 pages back who the organisers were.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 12:15:33 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:13:10 AM
SPIRIT OF FREEDOM SHOWING STRONG
MASSIVE TRIBUTE TO HUNGER STRIKERS IN REPUBLICAN TYRONE
The success of Sunday's National Hunger Strike Commemoration in Galbally, County Tyrone was down to months of hard work by the organisers. Republicans from across the country turned out in their thousands, on Sunday 16 August, to remember the sacrifice of the ten H Block Hunger Strikers as well as Mayomen Michael Gaughan and Frank Stagg who died while imprisoned in England during the 1970s and the 12 other republicans who died on prison fasts in the 20th century.
Sunday's march, the culmination of a weekend of events organised to mark the 28th anniversary of the H Block fast, saw as many as 10,000 people join with representatives of the families of the 1981 Hunger Strikers as they marched through Galbally, the birthplace of Martin Hurson, to a rally at Piarsaigh an Ghallbhaile GAA grounds.
The many banners that were carried along the three mile route were a colourful display of solidarity and a geographical pointer to the fact that people had travelled the length and breadth of Ireland to attend the march. From Tyrone there were banners from Brantry, Eglish, Kileeshill, Loughmacrory and Killyclogher. Then there were banners from Wexford, Dublin and Monaghan. Republican flute bands travelled from Dungiven, Belfast, Strabane, Armagh, Antrim and they all beat out their defiance, to the delight of the crowds. The bands from Scotland were a welcome addition. They are proud republicans who still face the rigours of sectarianism and racism in Scotland as they play their part in the struggle for a united Ireland.
The lines of former POWs came from all over Ireland, bringing their own memories of the prison struggle. The former H Block prisoners reminisced about Bobby, Francie, Ray McCreesh, Patsy, Big Joe, Hurson Boy, Big Doc, Kevin 'Barabbas' Lynch, Big Tom and Red Mick.
What's that got to do with what we're talking about?
Maybe to show that it was a Hunger Strike commemoration, supported from all over the country and not a Sinn Fein rally as has been suggested by some?
That article you posted doesnt mention who organised it.
I'm not sure there's any point with going on about this but I dread to imagine what someone who objected to this march would get at an agm or committee meeting if some of you boys are represenative of those who supported it being held on a football field.
HS I think the problem is a commemoration taking place on a football field, organised by Sinn Fein or whatever else names their going under this week.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:41:35 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:36:14 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:29:41 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
Maybe to show that it was a Hunger Strike commemoration, supported from all over the country and not a Sinn Fein rally as has been suggested by some?
How does that show that it wasn't a SF rally? Who did organise it?
Also, out of interest, what's the source of that piece?
BTW Maguire, I stated about 6 pages back who the organisers were.
Can you use Google at all? As was stated before, it was organised by Sinn Fein, the NGA, & other local groupings.
Why should I google it? You posted it.
So, after all that it wasn't a Sinn Fein rally, but they organised it. Good to have that cleared up. :P
BTW Maguire, I posted about 6 pages back who the organisers were.
A quick google... and your source was An Phoblacht.
I must have missed your earlier post - I was just going on the fact that you said that it wasn't a SF rally.
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:42:39 AM
Right, it appears that the problem is Sinn Fein and not the actual Hunger Strike commemoration.
Is this correct?
HS it appears that if the Pope of Rome had organised and Sinn Fein had any input at all, then it was a Sinn Fein
political rally of Nuremberg proportions.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:40:37 AM
And thank you for keeping it alive. :P
Not easy to be oblivious to a cesspit of ignorance.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:40:37 AM
But seriously, it's hardly 'polluting' the board - it's one thread. There's plenty of space on the front page to discuss every aspect of the semi-finals.
Call it what you try to, you're a litter lout.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:45:11 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:41:35 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:36:14 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:32:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:29:41 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
Maybe to show that it was a Hunger Strike commemoration, supported from all over the country and not a Sinn Fein rally as has been suggested by some?
How does that show that it wasn't a SF rally? Who did organise it?
Also, out of interest, what's the source of that piece?
BTW Maguire, I stated about 6 pages back who the organisers were.
Can you use Google at all? As was stated before, it was organised by Sinn Fein, the NGA, & other local groupings.
Why should I google it? You posted it.
So, after all that it wasn't a Sinn Fein rally, but they organised it. Good to have that cleared up. :P
BTW Maguire, I posted about 6 pages back who the organisers were.
A quick google... and your source was An Phoblacht.
I must have missed your earlier post - I was just going on the fact that you said that it wasn't a SF rally.
H U N G E R S T R I K E C O M M E M O R A T I O N .
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:42:39 AM
Right, it appears that the problem is Sinn Fein and not the actual Hunger Strike commemoration.
Is this correct?
I have no problem with people commemorating the hunger strikers. I've already said this.
The issue is with the GAA being dragged into it. These commemorations can take place anywhere, so why bring them into a sporting arena?
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:46:59 AM
Pints, is it the "Sinn Fein" or the "Hunger Strike commemoration"?
It's the GAA having any role in any such event.
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:46:59 AM
Pints, is it the "Sinn Fein" or the "Hunger Strike commemoration"?
It was the fact it was on a Football field.
I dont care who organised it, FF, SDLP, SF, DUP - I dont care.
No issue with the commemoration at all as long as it's not on GAA property.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:47:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:42:39 AM
Right, it appears that the problem is Sinn Fein and not the actual Hunger Strike commemoration.
Is this correct?
I have no problem with people commemorating the hunger strikers. I've already said this.
The issue is with the GAA being dragged into it. These commemorations can take place anywhere, so why bring them into a sporting arena?
Have you ever seen the facilities in Galbally / Cappagh?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 22, 2009, 12:45:33 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:40:37 AM
And thank you for keeping it alive. :P
Not easy to be oblivious to a cesspit of ignorance.
Ignorance? How so?
Difference of opinion maybe. I don't see what i'm ignorant about. I'm happy to be corrected if i've got the facts wrong. I can't really be ignorant on the basis of my opinion otherwise.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 12:50:26 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:46:59 AM
Pints, is it the "Sinn Fein" or the "Hunger Strike commemoration"?
It was the fact it was on a Football field.
I dont care who organised it, FF, SDLP, SF, DUP - I dont care.
No issue with the commemoration at all as long as it's not on GAA property.
So do you think Galbally GFC should be sanctioned in some way or other for allowing the Commemoration
to take place?
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:51:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:47:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:42:39 AM
Right, it appears that the problem is Sinn Fein and not the actual Hunger Strike commemoration.
Is this correct?
I have no problem with people commemorating the hunger strikers. I've already said this.
The issue is with the GAA being dragged into it. These commemorations can take place anywhere, so why bring them into a sporting arena?
Have you ever seen the facilities in Galbally / Cappagh?
These commemerations take place all over south armagh in graveyards and on roads - why not in Tyrone?
I wouldnt want to see any club punished TirE, all I'd ask is they show a little bit of consideration to other members of the GAA and their own club (because I'm sure not every member of the club was overjoyed with it) in future.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 12:54:45 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:51:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:47:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:42:39 AM
Right, it appears that the problem is Sinn Fein and not the actual Hunger Strike commemoration.
Is this correct?
I have no problem with people commemorating the hunger strikers. I've already said this.
The issue is with the GAA being dragged into it. These commemorations can take place anywhere, so why bring them into a sporting arena?
Have you ever seen the facilities in Galbally / Cappagh?
These commemerations take place all over south armagh in graveyards and on roads - why not in Tyrone?
I wouldnt want to see any club punished TirE, all I'd ask is they show a little bit of consideration to other members of the GAA and their own club (because I'm sure not every member of the club was overjoyed with it) in future.
Its a YES or NO question Pints.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 12:44:49 AM
I'm not sure there's any point with going on about this but I dread to imagine what someone who objected to this march would get at an agm or committee meeting if some of you boys are represenative of those who supported it being held on a football field.
We don't agree on very much PoG, but i'm with you on this one.
People can say that those from this club were fully behind this event. And maybe they were, i honestly don't know.
But if they were anything like some of the posters on here, it would be a brave man (or club member) that would stand up and voice their opposition.
A few years ago I helped my oul boy and a few of his old IRA and SF buddies fill Croke Park for a rally on behalf of the PTAA. Would anyone like to point out the difference between then and now or how the rules were breached on either occassion?
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:51:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:47:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:42:39 AM
Right, it appears that the problem is Sinn Fein and not the actual Hunger Strike commemoration.
Is this correct?
I have no problem with people commemorating the hunger strikers. I've already said this.
The issue is with the GAA being dragged into it. These commemorations can take place anywhere, so why bring them into a sporting arena?
Have you ever seen the facilities in Galbally / Cappagh?
Eh, it was held in a field. Now i'm not overly familiar with Galbally, but i'd imagine there's more than one field.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:56:56 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 12:54:45 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:51:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:47:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:42:39 AM
Right, it appears that the problem is Sinn Fein and not the actual Hunger Strike commemoration.
Is this correct?
I have no problem with people commemorating the hunger strikers. I've already said this.
The issue is with the GAA being dragged into it. These commemorations can take place anywhere, so why bring them into a sporting arena?
Have you ever seen the facilities in Galbally / Cappagh?
These commemerations take place all over south armagh in graveyards and on roads - why not in Tyrone?
I wouldnt want to see any club punished TirE, all I'd ask is they show a little bit of consideration to other members of the GAA and their own club (because I'm sure not every member of the club was overjoyed with it) in future.
Its a YES or NO question Pints.
and if you read my post you'll see I've answered it with a no.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:57:13 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 12:44:49 AM
I'm not sure there's any point with going on about this but I dread to imagine what someone who objected to this march would get at an agm or committee meeting if some of you boys are represenative of those who supported it being held on a football field.
We don't agree on very much PoG, but i'm with you on this one.
People can say that those from this club were fully behind this event. And maybe they were, i honestly don't know.
But if they were anything like some of the posters on here, it would be a brave man (or club member) that would stand up and voice their opposition.
that's exactly my concern.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:00:03 AM
Eh, it was held in a field. Now i'm not overly familiar with Galbally, but i'd imagine there's more than one field.
With public liability insurance?
Quote from: Donagh on August 22, 2009, 01:02:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:00:03 AM
Eh, it was held in a field. Now i'm not overly familiar with Galbally, but i'd imagine there's more than one field.
With public liability insurance?
Donagh, like myself, I'm sure you've stood at plenty of these events in graveyards and on the road, why wasnt this suitable for this event?
Also, I'd say this is an annual march, where did speeches take place in previous years?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:02:26 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:56:56 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 12:54:45 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 12:51:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:47:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:42:39 AM
Right, it appears that the problem is Sinn Fein and not the actual Hunger Strike commemoration.
Is this correct?
I have no problem with people commemorating the hunger strikers. I've already said this.
The issue is with the GAA being dragged into it. These commemorations can take place anywhere, so why bring them into a sporting arena?
Have you ever seen the facilities in Galbally / Cappagh?
These commemerations take place all over south armagh in graveyards and on roads - why not in Tyrone?
I wouldnt want to see any club punished TirE, all I'd ask is they show a little bit of consideration to other members of the GAA and their own club (because I'm sure not every member of the club was overjoyed with it) in future.
Its a YES or NO question Pints.
and if you read my post you'll see I've answered it with a no.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:57:13 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 12:44:49 AM
I'm not sure there's any point with going on about this but I dread to imagine what someone who objected to this march would get at an agm or committee meeting if some of you boys are represenative of those who supported it being held on a football field.
We don't agree on very much PoG, but i'm with you on this one.
People can say that those from this club were fully behind this event. And maybe they were, i honestly don't know.
But if they were anything like some of the posters on here, it would be a brave man (or club member) that would stand up and voice their opposition.
that's exactly my concern.
A little ambigious initially but no it is then. I think if you knew any of the members of Galbally GFC, they are more
than able to stand up for themselves. However, since the Ulster Council have issued a statement, i think we
should leave it in their capable hands for now.
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:06:13 AM
So Kevin Lynch's hurling club or Ó Dochartaigh/Mac Donáill park??
Both (I presume) got the go ahead from HQ.
From what I remember Kevin Lynch's, was it last year?, was organised by the club he was a member of.
I dont recall this croke park one donagh has mentioned.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:04:35 AM
Quote from: Donagh on August 22, 2009, 01:02:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:00:03 AM
Eh, it was held in a field. Now i'm not overly familiar with Galbally, but i'd imagine there's more than one field.
With public liability insurance?
Donagh, like myself, I'm sure you've stood at plenty of these events in graveyards and on the road, why wasnt this suitable for this event?
Also, I'd say this is an annual march, where did speeches take place in previous years?
Same place, same venue Pints. So why all the hullabuloo now, I wonder?
Quote from: Donagh on August 22, 2009, 01:02:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:00:03 AM
Eh, it was held in a field. Now i'm not overly familiar with Galbally, but i'd imagine there's more than one field.
With public liability insurance?
Would a GAA club's public liability insurance cover such an event (being outside of the normal activities such a venue would normally be insured for)?
Furthermore, if it did, would it be appropriate to have to claim on it as the result of an incident occuring at such an event?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:04:35 AM
Donagh, like myself, I'm sure you've stood at plenty of these events in graveyards and on the road, why wasnt this suitable for this event?
Also, I'd say this is an annual march, where did speeches take place in previous years?
In previous years it has been held in Casement or outside Belfast city hall. I presume the organisers are trying to bring it outside the city and as you say we've stood about in enough graveyards over the years to be going back to that kind of thing again.
I also have to wonder that if this happened south of the border would there be as much fuss, as I remember playing a football match against Ballyconnell a few years back before we unveiled the Kieran Doherty memorial. Wasn't a word said about that.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:09:36 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:04:35 AM
Quote from: Donagh on August 22, 2009, 01:02:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:00:03 AM
Eh, it was held in a field. Now i'm not overly familiar with Galbally, but i'd imagine there's more than one field.
With public liability insurance?
Donagh, like myself, I'm sure you've stood at plenty of these events in graveyards and on the road, why wasnt this suitable for this event?
Also, I'd say this is an annual march, where did speeches take place in previous years?
Same place, same venue Pints. So why all the hullabuloo now, I wonder?
It's in the field every year? I am surprised.
Hullabuloo about it now because a bigot has got wind of it and won't stop ranting until he gets his pound of flesh.
Well we know what happened when it was held in Casement as well Donagh. Sinn Fein, again, used the GAA and dont particularly care what back lash the GAA have to face. As far as I know repbulicans are still standing in graveyards and on roads listening to speeches.
What dont you understand HS?
What does everyone think about the Martin Hurson Memorial Tournament held every year? Is it OK for this
to take place, or should this be discontinued? I remember reading about some DUP'er complaining about this
as well, either last year or the year before.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:07:11 AM
I think if you knew any of the members of Galbally GFC, they are more
than able to stand up for themselves. However, since the Ulster Council have issued a statement, i think we
should leave it in their capable hands for now.
I think the point is that you'd have to know them
all.
As has already been said, there's little doubt that the majority of the club members had no issue with this. And maybe all of them were behind this. But neither you nor I can speak for all of them.
2. The commemoration hosted on the pitch before an actual game, by Glentoran FC for the late David Ervine PUP/UVF
Rem. the shinners who where at his funeral? Apart from that, do we have to give the DUP a big stick to attack the GAA?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:14:47 AM
Well we know what happened when it was held in Casement as well Donagh. Sinn Fein, again, used the GAA and dont particularly care what back lash the GAA have to face.
Again, I have to agree with this. This is no SF 'bashing' for the sake of it. If the party members cared about the GAA as much as they say, they shouldn't put the Association in such positions.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:14:47 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:09:36 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:04:35 AM
Quote from: Donagh on August 22, 2009, 01:02:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:00:03 AM
Eh, it was held in a field. Now i'm not overly familiar with Galbally, but i'd imagine there's more than one field.
With public liability insurance?
Donagh, like myself, I'm sure you've stood at plenty of these events in graveyards and on the road, why wasnt this suitable for this event?
Also, I'd say this is an annual march, where did speeches take place in previous years?
Same place, same venue Pints. So why all the hullabuloo now, I wonder?
It's in the field every year? I am surprised.
Hullabuloo about it now because a bigot has got wind of it and won't stop ranting until he gets his pound of flesh.
Well we know what happened when it was held in Casement as well Donagh. Sinn Fein, again, used the GAA and dont particularly care what back lash the GAA have to face. As far as I know repbulicans are still standing in graveyards and on roads listening to speeches.
What dont you understand HS?
So we should listen to one bigot, as opposed to what the vast majority of the local nationalist community want?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:10:03 AM
Would a GAA club's public liability insurance cover such an event (being outside of the normal activities such a venue would normally be insured for)?
Furthermore, if it did, would it be appropriate to have to claim on it as the result of an incident occuring at such an event?
GAA grounds are hired out for community events every night of the week. Of course they're covered and of course it's appropriate. I hired out my own club last year for an event commerating the 'Shoot to Kill' incidents and a neighbouring club held a football tournament. These were community events, not party political because some Shinner happened to attend or be invited.
Quote from: dillinger on August 22, 2009, 01:16:55 AM
2. The commemoration hosted on the pitch before an actual game, by Glentoran FC for the late David Ervine PUP/UVF
Rem. the shinners who where at his funeral? Apart from that, do we have to give the DUP a big stick to attack the GAA?
No you dont, they seem capable of attacking it anyway.
Quote from: Donagh on August 22, 2009, 01:19:22 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:10:03 AM
Would a GAA club's public liability insurance cover such an event (being outside of the normal activities such a venue would normally be insured for)?
Furthermore, if it did, would it be appropriate to have to claim on it as the result of an incident occuring at such an event?
GAA grounds are hired out for community events every night of the week. Of course they're covered and of course it's appropriate. I hired out my own club last year for an event commerating the 'Shoot to Kill' incidents and a neighbouring club held a football tournament. These were community events, not party political because some Shinner happened to attend or be invited.
as was the Hunger Strike Commemoration.
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:18:14 AM
I didn't understand your post at all, pints. I am not talking about a 'do'. I'm talking about the club's name.
Oh right, I misunderstood, thought you meant the march thing they had last year.
From what I can gather the club is called after him as he was an exceptional hurler rather than for his political activities and death. That's fair enough in my eyes.
QuoteSo we should listen to one bigot, as opposed to what the vast majority of the local nationalist community want?
The bigot only highlighted the interest, I couldnt give a shite about him, I said from the beginning of this thread I care about the GAA and it's members who may not like this.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:18:53 AM
So we should listen to one bigot, as opposed to what the vast majority of the local nationalist community want?
McCausland is merely a distraction. The GAA will never appease the likes of him, no matter what. Forget about him - that's not the point.
And as has already been said, the club is part of an
Association - they can't just do their own thing because that's what some of the locals want.
No you dont, they seem capable of attacking it anyway.
[/quote]
And they always will, but why give them a penelty kick at the GAA?
Quote from: Donagh on August 22, 2009, 01:19:22 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:10:03 AM
Would a GAA club's public liability insurance cover such an event (being outside of the normal activities such a venue would normally be insured for)?
Furthermore, if it did, would it be appropriate to have to claim on it as the result of an incident occuring at such an event?
GAA grounds are hired out for community events every night of the week. Of course they're covered and of course it's appropriate.
Thanks for clearing that up - it
was a genuine question.
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Pints, didn't we read a few pages back that Martin Hurson was a member of Galbally GAA? Perhaps he wasn't exceptional enough?
Difference is a political party or whoever, not the GAA club organised this event. If the club organised the event for a deceased member I wouldnt have a problem.
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Pints, didn't we read a few pages back that Martin Hurson was a member of Galbally GAA? Perhaps he wasn't exceptional enough?
To be fair, many GAA members and players die and don't have clubs/grounds/commemorations in their honour on account of their contribution to the Association.
And this was clearly a political event, rather than commemorating someone's sporting achievements.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:21:50 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:18:14 AM
I didn't understand your post at all, pints. I am not talking about a 'do'. I'm talking about the club's name.
Oh right, I misunderstood, thought you meant the march thing they had last year.
From what I can gather the club is called after him as he was an exceptional hurler rather than for his political activities and death. That's fair enough in my eyes.
QuoteSo we should listen to one bigot, as opposed to what the vast majority of the local nationalist community want?
The bigot only highlighted the interest, I couldnt give a shite about him, I said from the beginning of this thread I care about the GAA and it's members who may not like this.
Pints I stated earlier in this thread that im a member, either playing or otherwise for 40 years now. I have no
problem whatsoever with it. I agree some people may have, but to lambast Galbally GFC , the way some people have
is totally wrong in my opinion. And the way some have attempted to turn this into political points scoring is pathetic.
If you knew anything about the people of Galbally and the members of the club, you would realise that it they
didnt want something to happen, then it wouldnt, simple as that.
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:30:57 AM
Now, pints and Maguire, I did ask you before I took my route if it was the "Sinn Fein" or the "Hunger Strike commemoration" that annoyed you.
How did you answer?
As follows...
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:47:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:42:39 AM
Right, it appears that the problem is Sinn Fein and not the actual Hunger Strike commemoration.
Is this correct?
I have no problem with people commemorating the hunger strikers. I've already said this.
The issue is with the GAA being dragged into it. These commemorations can take place anywhere, so why bring them into a sporting arena?
You can see it here:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.msg625762#msg625762
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:29:42 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Pints, didn't we read a few pages back that Martin Hurson was a member of Galbally GAA? Perhaps he wasn't exceptional enough?
To be fair, many GAA members and players die and don't have clubs/grounds/commemorations in their honour on account of their contribution to the Association.
And this was clearly a political event, rather than commemorating someone's sporting achievements.
how many f**king times does it have to be said. It was a hunger strike commemoration. Were you there?
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:31:32 AM
If you knew anything about the people of Galbally and the members of the club, you would realise that it they
didnt want something to happen, then it wouldnt, simple as that.
How many times.....
a) Neither you nor I can speak for
every member of that club, so we don't know that everyone wanted it to happen; and
b) The club is part of an Association. A such, the club members can't just do what they want, even if 100% of them agree.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:21:50 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:18:14 AM
I didn't understand your post at all, pints. I am not talking about a 'do'. I'm talking about the club's name.
Oh right, I misunderstood, thought you meant the march thing they had last year.
From what I can gather the club is called after him as he was an exceptional hurler rather than for his political activities and death. That's fair enough in my eyes.
QuoteSo we should listen to one bigot, as opposed to what the vast majority of the local nationalist community want?
The bigot only highlighted the interest, I couldnt give a shite about him, I said from the beginning of this thread I care about the GAA and it's members who may not like this.
Pints I stated earlier in this thread that im a member, either playing or otherwise for 40 years now. I have no
problem whatsoever with it. I agree some people may have, but to lambast Galbally GFC , the way some people have
is totally wrong in my opinion. And the way some have attempted to turn this into political points scoring is pathetic.
If you knew anything about the people of Galbally and the members of the club, you would realise that it they
didnt want something to happen, then it wouldnt, simple as that.
You may not have a problem with it but others may.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:31:32 AM
If you knew anything about the people of Galbally and the members of the club, you would realise that it they
didnt want something to happen, then it wouldnt, simple as that.
How many times.....
a) Neither you nor I can speak for
every member of that club, so we don't know that everyone wanted it to happen; and
b) The club is part of an Association. A such, the club members can't just do what they want, even if 100% of them agree.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:37:52 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:31:32 AM
If you knew anything about the people of Galbally and the members of the club, you would realise that it they
didnt want something to happen, then it wouldnt, simple as that.
How many times.....
a) Neither you nor I can speak for every member of that club, so we don't know that everyone wanted it to happen; and
b) The club is part of an Association. A such, the club members can't just do what they want, even if 100% of them agree.
And thats where the Ulster Council come in.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:35:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:29:42 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Pints, didn't we read a few pages back that Martin Hurson was a member of Galbally GAA? Perhaps he wasn't exceptional enough?
To be fair, many GAA members and players die and don't have clubs/grounds/commemorations in their honour on account of their contribution to the Association.
And this was clearly a political event, rather than commemorating someone's sporting achievements.
how many f**king times does it have to be said. It was a hunger strike commemoration. Were you there?
Clearly I wasn't there. I'm not sure what difference that makes,
But surely the hunger strikes were a political event? If so, it would surely follow that a commemoration would also be a political event. It was hardly a sporting occasion.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:41:34 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:37:52 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:31:32 AM
If you knew anything about the people of Galbally and the members of the club, you would realise that it they
didnt want something to happen, then it wouldnt, simple as that.
How many times.....
a) Neither you nor I can speak for every member of that club, so we don't know that everyone wanted it to happen; and
b) The club is part of an Association. A such, the club members can't just do what they want, even if 100% of them agree.
And thats where the Ulster Council come in.
So if the UC find a problem with it you'll agree that this club was wrong to allow such an event?
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:41:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:34:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:30:57 AM
Now, pints and Maguire, I did ask you before I took my route if it was the "Sinn Fein" or the "Hunger Strike commemoration" that annoyed you.
How did you answer?
As follows...
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 12:47:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 12:42:39 AM
Right, it appears that the problem is Sinn Fein and not the actual Hunger Strike commemoration.
Is this correct?
I have no problem with people commemorating the hunger strikers. I've already said this.
The issue is with the GAA being dragged into it. These commemorations can take place anywhere, so why bring them into a sporting arena?
You can see it here:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13467.msg625762#msg625762
No mention of party politics in that answer.
Maybe not, but i've clearly stated my issue. Just because you only offered A or B as an answer doesn't mean I can't use C.
My issue is that this event was in a GAA ground - not that this event took place, nor that SF organised it.
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:45:23 AM
If the UC find a problem with this, they have a major problem on their hands. A can of worms.
It is indeed.
It will probably be swept under the carpet.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:35:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:29:42 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Pints, didn't we read a few pages back that Martin Hurson was a member of Galbally GAA? Perhaps he wasn't exceptional enough?
To be fair, many GAA members and players die and don't have clubs/grounds/commemorations in their honour on account of their contribution to the Association.
And this was clearly a political event, rather than commemorating someone's sporting achievements.
how many f**king times does it have to be said. It was a hunger strike commemoration. Were you there?
Clearly I wasn't there. I'm not sure what difference that makes,
But surely the hunger strikes were a political event? If so, it would surely follow that a commemoration would also be a political event. It was hardly a sporting occasion.
The Hunger strikes were an event that touched most of the nationalist people of Northern Ireland. And to most of those
people it showed how much Britain cared for the people allegedly under its control. People who normally didnt care
about such things were abhorred about what happened during the Hunger Strikes. And it doesnt therefore follow that a
hunger strike commemoration is a political event. Its just what is says, a commemoration.
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:37:51 AM
Maguire........Kevin Lynch's hurling club. Hunger Strike/GAA. GAA/Hunger Strike?
Why blow yer load now?
I'm not blowing any load, as you so nicely put it.
But this event doesn't appear to have any connection to the Association.
Regardless of my political opinion, I can appreciate that Kevin Lynch's club was named after a reportedly exceptional hurler. It's a different situation altogether
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:43:57 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:41:34 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:37:52 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:31:32 AM
If you knew anything about the people of Galbally and the members of the club, you would realise that it they
didnt want something to happen, then it wouldnt, simple as that.
How many times.....
a) Neither you nor I can speak for every member of that club, so we don't know that everyone wanted it to happen; and
b) The club is part of an Association. A such, the club members can't just do what they want, even if 100% of them agree.
And thats where the Ulster Council come in.
So if the UC find a problem with it you'll agree that this club was wrong to allow such an event?
Of course i will. I said earlier that i was a GAA member. I attended Sundays
event to show my support for the Hunger Strikers. I was there to attend a
commemoration, not a political rally. And that is exactly what i saw.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:47:17 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:45:23 AM
If the UC find a problem with this, they have a major problem on their hands. A can of worms.
It is indeed.
It will probably be swept under the carpet.
You dont have much faith in the GAA then?
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:50:28 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:35:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:29:42 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Pints, didn't we read a few pages back that Martin Hurson was a member of Galbally GAA? Perhaps he wasn't exceptional enough?
To be fair, many GAA members and players die and don't have clubs/grounds/commemorations in their honour on account of their contribution to the Association.
And this was clearly a political event, rather than commemorating someone's sporting achievements.
how many f**king times does it have to be said. It was a hunger strike commemoration. Were you there?
Clearly I wasn't there. I'm not sure what difference that makes,
But surely the hunger strikes were a political event? If so, it would surely follow that a commemoration would also be a political event. It was hardly a sporting occasion.
The Hunger strikes were an event that touched most of the nationalist people of Northern Ireland. And to most of those
people it showed how much Britain cared for the people allegedly under its control. People who normally didnt care
about such things were abhorred about what happened during the Hunger Strikes. And it doesnt therefore follow that a
hunger strike commemoration is a political event. Its just what is says, a commemoration.
Maybe you should read the speeches detailed in your quote from An Phoblacht - there are numerous explicit political references.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:37:52 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:21:50 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:18:14 AM
I didn't understand your post at all, pints. I am not talking about a 'do'. I'm talking about the club's name.
Oh right, I misunderstood, thought you meant the march thing they had last year.
From what I can gather the club is called after him as he was an exceptional hurler rather than for his political activities and death. That's fair enough in my eyes.
QuoteSo we should listen to one bigot, as opposed to what the vast majority of the local nationalist community want?
The bigot only highlighted the interest, I couldnt give a shite about him, I said from the beginning of this thread I care about the GAA and it's members who may not like this.
Pints I stated earlier in this thread that im a member, either playing or otherwise for 40 years now. I have no
problem whatsoever with it. I agree some people may have, but to lambast Galbally GFC , the way some people have
is totally wrong in my opinion. And the way some have attempted to turn this into political points scoring is pathetic.
If you knew anything about the people of Galbally and the members of the club, you would realise that it they
didnt want something to happen, then it wouldnt, simple as that.
You may not have a problem with it but others may.
i have noticed that Pints, especially some posters on this thread.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:55:19 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:47:17 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:45:23 AM
If the UC find a problem with this, they have a major problem on their hands. A can of worms.
It is indeed.
It will probably be swept under the carpet.
You dont have much faith in the GAA then?
Firstly, the Ulster Council is not
the GAA.
I think they're caught between a rock and a hard place and just think that it's regretable that they have been put in this situation at all. They're in a no win situation.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:57:48 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:50:28 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:35:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:29:42 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Pints, didn't we read a few pages back that Martin Hurson was a member of Galbally GAA? Perhaps he wasn't exceptional enough?
To be fair, many GAA members and players die and don't have clubs/grounds/commemorations in their honour on account of their contribution to the Association.
And this was clearly a political event, rather than commemorating someone's sporting achievements.
how many f**king times does it have to be said. It was a hunger strike commemoration. Were you there?
Clearly I wasn't there. I'm not sure what difference that makes,
But surely the hunger strikes were a political event? If so, it would surely follow that a commemoration would also be a political event. It was hardly a sporting occasion.
The Hunger strikes were an event that touched most of the nationalist people of Northern Ireland. And to most of those
people it showed how much Britain cared for the people allegedly under its control. People who normally didnt care
about such things were abhorred about what happened during the Hunger Strikes. And it doesnt therefore follow that a
hunger strike commemoration is a political event. Its just what is says, a commemoration.
Maybe you should read the speeches detailed in your quote from An Phoblacht - there are numerous explicit political references.
Of course there are. It was a Commemoration for men who died on Hunger Strike. I am going to Croke
Park on Sunday. If i look & listen hard enough i will find plenty of political references there as well. It doesnt
mean its a political rally though, just an all ireland semi final.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:58:02 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:37:52 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 22, 2009, 01:21:50 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:18:14 AM
I didn't understand your post at all, pints. I am not talking about a 'do'. I'm talking about the club's name.
Oh right, I misunderstood, thought you meant the march thing they had last year.
From what I can gather the club is called after him as he was an exceptional hurler rather than for his political activities and death. That's fair enough in my eyes.
QuoteSo we should listen to one bigot, as opposed to what the vast majority of the local nationalist community want?
The bigot only highlighted the interest, I couldnt give a shite about him, I said from the beginning of this thread I care about the GAA and it's members who may not like this.
Pints I stated earlier in this thread that im a member, either playing or otherwise for 40 years now. I have no
problem whatsoever with it. I agree some people may have, but to lambast Galbally GFC , the way some people have
is totally wrong in my opinion. And the way some have attempted to turn this into political points scoring is pathetic.
If you knew anything about the people of Galbally and the members of the club, you would realise that it they
didnt want something to happen, then it wouldnt, simple as that.
You may not have a problem with it but others may.
i have noticed that Pints, especially some posters on this thread.
And as such, i'm sure you appreciate that other members of the Association have similar issues.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:01:53 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:57:48 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:50:28 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:35:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:29:42 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Pints, didn't we read a few pages back that Martin Hurson was a member of Galbally GAA? Perhaps he wasn't exceptional enough?
To be fair, many GAA members and players die and don't have clubs/grounds/commemorations in their honour on account of their contribution to the Association.
And this was clearly a political event, rather than commemorating someone's sporting achievements.
how many f**king times does it have to be said. It was a hunger strike commemoration. Were you there?
Clearly I wasn't there. I'm not sure what difference that makes,
But surely the hunger strikes were a political event? If so, it would surely follow that a commemoration would also be a political event. It was hardly a sporting occasion.
The Hunger strikes were an event that touched most of the nationalist people of Northern Ireland. And to most of those
people it showed how much Britain cared for the people allegedly under its control. People who normally didnt care
about such things were abhorred about what happened during the Hunger Strikes. And it doesnt therefore follow that a
hunger strike commemoration is a political event. Its just what is says, a commemoration.
Maybe you should read the speeches detailed in your quote from An Phoblacht - there are numerous explicit political references.
Of course there are. It was a Commemoration for men who died on Hunger Strike. I am going to Croke
Park on Sunday. If i look & listen hard enough i will find plenty of political references there as well. It doesnt
mean its a political rally though, just an all ireland semi final.
Sunday will be about the football. I don't expect to have to listen to any politicians.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:00:28 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:55:19 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:47:17 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:45:23 AM
If the UC find a problem with this, they have a major problem on their hands. A can of worms.
It is indeed.
It will probably be swept under the carpet.
You dont have much faith in the GAA then?
Firstly, the Ulster Council is not the GAA.
I think they're caught between a rock and a hard place and just think that it's regretable that they have been put in this situation at all. They're in a no win situation.
No but theyre part of it. I'm sure though they can handle these rock & hard place situations , after all that what
we vote these people into.
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 02:04:52 AM
Surely it's not the recent event in Galbally that has done this though. It doesn't stop at the UC either.
No indeed. Any decisions made should cover all such events and should be applied across the whole Association. If the UC can't deal with it, it should go back to HQ.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:05:34 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:01:53 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:57:48 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:50:28 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:35:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:29:42 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Pints, didn't we read a few pages back that Martin Hurson was a member of Galbally GAA? Perhaps he wasn't exceptional enough?
To be fair, many GAA members and players die and don't have clubs/grounds/commemorations in their honour on account of their contribution to the Association.
And this was clearly a political event, rather than commemorating someone's sporting achievements.
how many f**king times does it have to be said. It was a hunger strike commemoration. Were you there?
Clearly I wasn't there. I'm not sure what difference that makes,
But surely the hunger strikes were a political event? If so, it would surely follow that a commemoration would also be a political event. It was hardly a sporting occasion.
The Hunger strikes were an event that touched most of the nationalist people of Northern Ireland. And to most of those
people it showed how much Britain cared for the people allegedly under its control. People who normally didnt care
about such things were abhorred about what happened during the Hunger Strikes. And it doesnt therefore follow that a
hunger strike commemoration is a political event. Its just what is says, a commemoration.
Maybe you should read the speeches detailed in your quote from An Phoblacht - there are numerous explicit political references.
Of course there are. It was a Commemoration for men who died on Hunger Strike. I am going to Croke
Park on Sunday. If i look & listen hard enough i will find plenty of political references there as well. It doesnt
mean its a political rally though, just an all ireland semi final.
Sunday will be about the football. I don't expect to have to listen to any politicians.
Correct and last Sunday was about the Hunger Strikers. However if You look closely around you, you will
see political references, even in the hallowed halls of Croke Park. If you want to see it, that is.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:07:31 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:00:28 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:55:19 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:47:17 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:45:23 AM
If the UC find a problem with this, they have a major problem on their hands. A can of worms.
It is indeed.
It will probably be swept under the carpet.
You dont have much faith in the GAA then?
Firstly, the Ulster Council is not the GAA.
I think they're caught between a rock and a hard place and just think that it's regretable that they have been put in this situation at all. They're in a no win situation.
No but theyre part of it. I'm sure though they can handle these rock & hard place situations , after all that what
we vote these people into.
Surely you're not naive enough to assume that just because people are voted into a position that they will be competent in their role? That's not making any judgement on the UC by the way - just a general observation on people who are elected.
As for the UC, you'd be extremely naive to believe that they won't be under considerable political pressure when considering this issue.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:08:13 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 02:04:52 AM
Surely it's not the recent event in Galbally that has done this though. It doesn't stop at the UC either.
No indeed. Any decisions made should cover all such events and should be applied across the whole Association. If the UC can't deal with it, it should go back to HQ.
Agree with that. And let them sort it out. coming round to my way of thinking Maguire.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:10:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:05:34 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:01:53 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:57:48 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:50:28 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:35:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:29:42 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Pints, didn't we read a few pages back that Martin Hurson was a member of Galbally GAA? Perhaps he wasn't exceptional enough?
To be fair, many GAA members and players die and don't have clubs/grounds/commemorations in their honour on account of their contribution to the Association.
And this was clearly a political event, rather than commemorating someone's sporting achievements.
how many f**king times does it have to be said. It was a hunger strike commemoration. Were you there?
Clearly I wasn't there. I'm not sure what difference that makes,
But surely the hunger strikes were a political event? If so, it would surely follow that a commemoration would also be a political event. It was hardly a sporting occasion.
The Hunger strikes were an event that touched most of the nationalist people of Northern Ireland. And to most of those
people it showed how much Britain cared for the people allegedly under its control. People who normally didnt care
about such things were abhorred about what happened during the Hunger Strikes. And it doesnt therefore follow that a
hunger strike commemoration is a political event. Its just what is says, a commemoration.
Maybe you should read the speeches detailed in your quote from An Phoblacht - there are numerous explicit political references.
Of course there are. It was a Commemoration for men who died on Hunger Strike. I am going to Croke
Park on Sunday. If i look & listen hard enough i will find plenty of political references there as well. It doesnt
mean its a political rally though, just an all ireland semi final.
Sunday will be about the football. I don't expect to have to listen to any politicians.
Correct and last Sunday was about the Hunger Strikers. However if You look closely around you, you will
see political references, even in the hallowed halls of Croke Park. If you want to see it, that is.
Yes, and you think that a commemoration wasn't political and I do... this is going in circles - no point in continuing down this road.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:08:13 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 02:04:52 AM
Surely it's not the recent event in Galbally that has done this though. It doesn't stop at the UC either.
No indeed. Any decisions made should cover all such events and should be applied across the whole Association. If the UC can't deal with it, it should go back to HQ.
Agree with that. And let them sort it out. coming round to my way of thinking Maguire.
Not at all. You just happen to have agreed with something I said.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:10:59 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:07:31 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:00:28 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:55:19 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:47:17 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:45:23 AM
If the UC find a problem with this, they have a major problem on their hands. A can of worms.
It is indeed.
It will probably be swept under the carpet.
You dont have much faith in the GAA then?
Firstly, the Ulster Council is not the GAA.
I think they're caught between a rock and a hard place and just think that it's regretable that they have been put in this situation at all. They're in a no win situation.
No but theyre part of it. I'm sure though they can handle these rock & hard place situations , after all that what
we vote these people into.
Surely you're not naive enough to assume that just because people are voted into a position that they will be competent in their role? That's not making any judgement on the UC by the way - just a general observation on people who are elected.
As for the UC, you'd be extremely naive to believe that they won't be under considerable political pressure when considering this issue.
You cant have it every way. If there was a problem (GAA wise) last Sunday with Galbally GFC, then its up to
the UC to sanction them. If the UC cant do it then its up to HQ to sort it out. Thats no naive, Its the way
things are supposed to work. Or are you suggesting that the UC & GAA in general are incompetent in such
things?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:15:08 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:08:13 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 02:04:52 AM
Surely it's not the recent event in Galbally that has done this though. It doesn't stop at the UC either.
No indeed. Any decisions made should cover all such events and should be applied across the whole Association. If the UC can't deal with it, it should go back to HQ.
Agree with that. And let them sort it out. coming round to my way of thinking Maguire.
Not at all. You just happen to have agreed with something I said.
Not necessarily, I agree with the way things are supposed to be.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:15:54 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:10:59 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:07:31 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:00:28 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:55:19 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:47:17 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:45:23 AM
If the UC find a problem with this, they have a major problem on their hands. A can of worms.
It is indeed.
It will probably be swept under the carpet.
You dont have much faith in the GAA then?
Firstly, the Ulster Council is not the GAA.
I think they're caught between a rock and a hard place and just think that it's regretable that they have been put in this situation at all. They're in a no win situation.
No but theyre part of it. I'm sure though they can handle these rock & hard place situations , after all that what
we vote these people into.
Surely you're not naive enough to assume that just because people are voted into a position that they will be competent in their role? That's not making any judgement on the UC by the way - just a general observation on people who are elected.
As for the UC, you'd be extremely naive to believe that they won't be under considerable political pressure when considering this issue.
You cant have it every way. If there was a problem (GAA wise) last Sunday with Galbally GFC, then its up to
the UC to sanction them. If the UC cant do it then its up to HQ to sort it out. Thats no naive, Its the way
things are supposed to work. Or are you suggesting that the UC & GAA in general are incompetent in such
things?
I'm not suggesting that at all.
I'm simply saying that it's not an easy decision.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:18:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:15:08 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:08:13 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 02:04:52 AM
Surely it's not the recent event in Galbally that has done this though. It doesn't stop at the UC either.
No indeed. Any decisions made should cover all such events and should be applied across the whole Association. If the UC can't deal with it, it should go back to HQ.
Agree with that. And let them sort it out. coming round to my way of thinking Maguire.
Not at all. You just happen to have agreed with something I said.
Not necessarily, I agree with the way things are supposed to be.
So you'll also acknowledge that it's not a case of me 'coming around to your way of thinking'.
Simply some common ground. :P
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:22:41 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:15:54 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:10:59 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:07:31 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:00:28 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 01:55:19 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 01:47:17 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 01:45:23 AM
If the UC find a problem with this, they have a major problem on their hands. A can of worms.
It is indeed.
It will probably be swept under the carpet.
You dont have much faith in the GAA then?
Firstly, the Ulster Council is not the GAA.
I think they're caught between a rock and a hard place and just think that it's regretable that they have been put in this situation at all. They're in a no win situation.
No but theyre part of it. I'm sure though they can handle these rock & hard place situations , after all that what
we vote these people into.
Surely you're not naive enough to assume that just because people are voted into a position that they will be competent in their role? That's not making any judgement on the UC by the way - just a general observation on people who are elected.
As for the UC, you'd be extremely naive to believe that they won't be under considerable political pressure when considering this issue.
You cant have it every way. If there was a problem (GAA wise) last Sunday with Galbally GFC, then its up to
the UC to sanction them. If the UC cant do it then its up to HQ to sort it out. Thats no naive, Its the way
things are supposed to work. Or are you suggesting that the UC & GAA in general are incompetent in such
things?
I'm not suggesting that at all.
I'm simply saying that it's not an easy decision.
Not saying it is but when i put a club member forward to the county executive, and he is in turn put forward
by the county to the UC, then i expect them to make decisions, however hard those decisions may be.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:24:12 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:18:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:15:08 AM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 22, 2009, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 22, 2009, 02:08:13 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 22, 2009, 02:04:52 AM
Surely it's not the recent event in Galbally that has done this though. It doesn't stop at the UC either.
No indeed. Any decisions made should cover all such events and should be applied across the whole Association. If the UC can't deal with it, it should go back to HQ.
Agree with that. And let them sort it out. coming round to my way of thinking Maguire.
Not at all. You just happen to have agreed with something I said.
Not necessarily, I agree with the way things are supposed to be.
So you'll also acknowledge that it's not a case of me 'coming around to your way of thinking'.
Simply some common ground. :P
Lets just agree to disagree.
QuoteLets just agree to disagree.
No....just agree to shut up. 23 pages of politics in the GAA section....you nordies are a tiresome bunch.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:48:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 09:37:27 PM
I'm not rejoicing at anything, just relieved that you, Lord Lickspittle of Limp-Wristed Lane, finally seem to have grasped something, without your political masters having given you permission. There were mistakes in that war, of course there were; tell about one war where there weren't mistakes. That you have to mention Darkley shows just how devoid and desperate of reason you actually are. Do you actually know who was involved in that shameful incident?
That you equate the UDA and UVF with the IRA shows just how jaundiced you are -- when did the IRA ever perpetrate a Greysteel or Seán Grahams?
You've pathetically attempted to change the subject from your assertion about Catholic victims of the IRA, but since that backfired on you, you now attempt to change the subject. Pathetic.
You've forgotten Kingsmill, obviously. A republican with a selective memory -quelle surprise. Your attempt to justify or explain away the killings of the IRA and other republican groupings is nauseating.
Quote from: Take Your Points on August 22, 2009, 08:38:53 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on August 22, 2009, 06:11:53 AM
QuoteLets just agree to disagree.
No....just agree to shut up. 23 pages of politics in the GAA section....you nordies are a tiresome bunch.
At last, the voice of reason.
I aim to please.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:17:50 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 06:21:38 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 04:40:32 PM
Hardy would have informants fraternising freely with operatives it would seem, which would be great for a few drunken nights, but would be totally useless as an effective way of prosecuting that war.
So let's not beat about the bush - does that mean the murder of Jean McConville was justified?
Perhaps if you'd any experience of living through it I could take that seriously. From your Meath and Cork redoubts you have no real idea, have you?
And this is what fcuks me off Hardy, the likes of yourself retrospectively pontificating about isolated incidents in a conflict you've no real idea about; a conflict you might have been arsed enough about to be superficially concerned about from afar, but not concerned enough to actually do anything. If any of us nordies actually felt that we had some protection from the IRA, there's nothing you can say or do now to disabuse us of that notion, except to piss us off big-time. You're entitled to do that, of course, but we're not entitled to take that crap without sharp rebuke.
Sorry, Fear. You're an intelligent and entertaining poster, but you seem to have lost the run of yourself in response to a simple question and I can't let the above pass.
My opinion is of less value than yours because of where I live? What's the point of discussion if you automatically win any argument because of your location? Are you not embarrassed to get into the ring with that kind of horseshoe in your glove?
And I note that I'm "pontificating". You, of course, are the soul of reason.
And don't be making any assumptions about how concerned I was or about what I did. I could just as easily ask what did YOU do, but I won't.
I asked a simple (but hard) question. Now that you've got the bluster and obfuscation out of the way, the question stands.
On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation
However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.
QuoteOn the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation
However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.
Hardy, for someone who doesn't live in the north I think you have got it spot on
Quote
On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation
However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.
Spot on and 100% correct.
I'll third that hardy.
I've been at as many and more marches as anyone on here i'd wager but this is not a pissing contest.
If we want to argue that this doesn't politicise a club with a straight face then we need to have a serious look in the mirror.
Those who gave their lives in the troubles need to be remembered by those who feel they should - that certainly includes me - but that doesn't include everyone within our community. far from it.
The gaa should be an all encompassing sporting organization with sporting ideals and sporting objectives. politics should be left at the door. This type of thing intimidates club members who do not agree - as this thread shows - but the sad thing about our society is this discussion cannot happen in a football club or at a parish meeting.
It's only happening here because anonymity leaves those with an alternative view safe from intimidation - though obviously there are those who are trying anyway.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 22, 2009, 07:49:17 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:48:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 09:37:27 PM
I'm not rejoicing at anything, just relieved that you, Lord Lickspittle of Limp-Wristed Lane, finally seem to have grasped something, without your political masters having given you permission. There were mistakes in that war, of course there were; tell about one war where there weren't mistakes. That you have to mention Darkley shows just how devoid and desperate of reason you actually are. Do you actually know who was involved in that shameful incident?
That you equate the UDA and UVF with the IRA shows just how jaundiced you are -- when did the IRA ever perpetrate a Greysteel or Seán Grahams?
You've pathetically attempted to change the subject from your assertion about Catholic victims of the IRA, but since that backfired on you, you now attempt to change the subject. Pathetic.
You've forgotten Kingsmill, obviously. A republican with a selective memory -quelle surprise. Your attempt to justify or explain away the killings of the IRA and other republican groupings is nauseating.
No, I didn't forget Kingsmill, but I knew you did. I also knew you would bring it up (eventually), but I also know that it's another example of how confused about it all that you are.
Kingsmill was not a sanctioned IRA operation, however, I don't deny that there may have been individual IRA personnel involved, which is not the same thing (except perhaps in your mind).
In the context of the time, where loyalists were mounting daily murderous attacks on Catholics in that specific area of Armagh, it was a 'successful' act in that those loyalist attacks ceased (largely), however, I would never condone the taking of, or attack on, a life based on religion, and can only be abhorred.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 22, 2009, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 22, 2009, 07:49:17 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:48:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 09:37:27 PM
I'm not rejoicing at anything, just relieved that you, Lord Lickspittle of Limp-Wristed Lane, finally seem to have grasped something, without your political masters having given you permission. There were mistakes in that war, of course there were; tell about one war where there weren't mistakes. That you have to mention Darkley shows just how devoid and desperate of reason you actually are. Do you actually know who was involved in that shameful incident?
That you equate the UDA and UVF with the IRA shows just how jaundiced you are -- when did the IRA ever perpetrate a Greysteel or Seán Grahams?
You've pathetically attempted to change the subject from your assertion about Catholic victims of the IRA, but since that backfired on you, you now attempt to change the subject. Pathetic.
You've forgotten Kingsmill, obviously. A republican with a selective memory -quelle surprise. Your attempt to justify or explain away the killings of the IRA and other republican groupings is nauseating.
No, I didn't forget Kingsmill, but I knew you did. I also knew you would bring it up (eventually), but I also know that it's another example of how confused about it all that you are.
Kingsmill was not a sanctioned IRA operation, however, I don't deny that there may have been individual IRA personnel involved, which is not the same thing (except perhaps in your mind).
In the context of the time, where loyalists were mounting daily murderous attacks on Catholics in that specific area of Armagh, it was a 'successful' act in that those loyalist attacks ceased (largely), however, I would never condone the taking of, or attack on, a life based on religion, and can only be abhorred.
Lads, can you take this stuff to the non gaa section please.
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation
However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.
Precisely.
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on August 22, 2009, 11:54:29 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 22, 2009, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 22, 2009, 07:49:17 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2009, 09:48:33 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 09:37:27 PM
I'm not rejoicing at anything, just relieved that you, Lord Lickspittle of Limp-Wristed Lane, finally seem to have grasped something, without your political masters having given you permission. There were mistakes in that war, of course there were; tell about one war where there weren't mistakes. That you have to mention Darkley shows just how devoid and desperate of reason you actually are. Do you actually know who was involved in that shameful incident?
That you equate the UDA and UVF with the IRA shows just how jaundiced you are -- when did the IRA ever perpetrate a Greysteel or Seán Grahams?
You've pathetically attempted to change the subject from your assertion about Catholic victims of the IRA, but since that backfired on you, you now attempt to change the subject. Pathetic.
You've forgotten Kingsmill, obviously. A republican with a selective memory -quelle surprise. Your attempt to justify or explain away the killings of the IRA and other republican groupings is nauseating.
No, I didn't forget Kingsmill, but I knew you did. I also knew you would bring it up (eventually), but I also know that it's another example of how confused about it all that you are.
Kingsmill was not a sanctioned IRA operation, however, I don't deny that there may have been individual IRA personnel involved, which is not the same thing (except perhaps in your mind).
In the context of the time, where loyalists were mounting daily murderous attacks on Catholics in that specific area of Armagh, it was a 'successful' act in that those loyalist attacks ceased (largely), however, I would never condone the taking of, or attack on, a life based on religion, and can only be abhorred.
Lads, can you take this stuff to the non gaa section please.
Yep, that line of discussion is dragging this out of the area of GAA discussion and isn't really that relevant to this topic anyway. Unless that's FoSB's plan, to try and have the mods move the thread. :P
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
My opinion is of less value than yours because of where I live? What's the point of discussion if you automatically win any argument because of your location? Are you not embarrassed to get into the ring with that kind of horseshoe in your glove?
And I note that I'm "pontificating". You, of course, are the soul of reason.
OK Hardy, by your usual posting standards, I though your initial posting in this thread was lazy ("Jean Mc Conville and hundreds..."), unreasonable, and provocative.
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
And don't be making any assumptions about how concerned I was or about what I did. I could just as easily ask what did YOU do, but I won't.
I asked a simple (but hard) question. Now that you've got the bluster and obfuscation out of the way, the question stands.
In relation to the question, an imperative of war is that informers within must be removed. I don't want to discuss the specifics of this particular case (or any case) on a public discussion forum, there may be relatives who may, through accident or design, happen across it.
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation
OK, fair enough.
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.
OK, but the facts of the matter have not yet been established, so there's no firm premise for the discussion, except what
might have been the case. So, it descends very quickly into the usual political mud slinging, where the subject of the thread is quickly submerged. It ain't primarily GAA.
The GAA should tell the shinners and marches and everyone and anyone connected with political ties to feck off and find some other premises to hold whatever sort of function they want to. The GAA up north gets bate over the head with this sort of thing and I think rightly so, why clubs feel the need to name clubs after men of violence is beyond me, they would be better served keeping their clubs seperate from political leanings and serve their communities free from political interests.
QuoteOn the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation
However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.
Sinn Féin members are not trying to 'infiltrate' the GAA in the north, they have been part and parcel of it for years in many areas of the north. In areas like Tyrone and south Armagh many GAA clubs have members who are the members of both the GAA and Sinn Féín.
As for infiltrating and hi-jacking the GAA, both Fianna Fáíl and Fine Gael have been shameless in their attempts to attract former and current GAA player and managers to run for office. Think Graham Gearghty, John O'Mahony, John O'Leary, Jimmy Deenihan and more recently at the last local elections Brian Whelahan. I could go on. Sinn Féin's position as regards GAA is no different to other parties.
Quote from: barelegs on August 22, 2009, 03:23:09 PM
QuoteOn the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation
However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.
Sinn Féin members are not trying to 'infiltrate' the GAA in the north, they have been part and parcel of it for years in many areas of the north. In areas like Tyrone and south Armagh many GAA clubs have members who are the members of both the GAA and Sinn Féín.
As for infiltrating and hi-jacking the GAA, both Fianna Fáíl and Fine Gael have been shameless in their attempts to attract former and current GAA player and managers to run for office. Think Graham Gearghty, John O'Mahony, John O'Leary, Jimmy Deenihan and more recently at the last local elections Brian Whelahan. I could go on. Sinn Féin's position as regards GAA is no different to other parties.
Recruiting popular sporting figures into a political party is one thing, staging a party rally on a GAA field is quite another. This whole thing was orchestrated and run by SF. The Graves Association is just another arm of SF.
There's a big enough car park and community centre in Galbally, why was the rally held on the pitch?
Are Sinn Fein paying for the re-sod of Galbally's pitch a la U2? ???
Quote from: barelegs on August 22, 2009, 03:23:09 PM
QuoteOn the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation
However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.
Sinn Féin members are not trying to 'infiltrate' the GAA in the north, they have been part and parcel of it for years in many areas of the north. In areas like Tyrone and south Armagh many GAA clubs have members who are the members of both the GAA and Sinn Féín.
As for infiltrating and hi-jacking the GAA, both Fianna Fáíl and Fine Gael have been shameless in their attempts to attract former and current GAA player and managers to run for office. Think Graham Gearghty, John O'Mahony, John O'Leary, Jimmy Deenihan and more recently at the last local elections Brian Whelahan. I could go on. Sinn Féin's position as regards GAA is no different to other parties.
Did you keep your face straight as you typed that?
It's well known that SF have been trying to infiltrate the GAA in the north for years - anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or extremely naive.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 22, 2009, 05:20:42 PM
It's well known that SF have been trying to infiltrate the GAA in the north for years - anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or extremely naive.
Rubbish
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation
Inded it might seem like that Hardy but unless you are on the ground you really don't know any more than the next man. A word of warning though, don't mistake genuine community activism for what the Sindo might like to portray as a SF plot.
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.
As above
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 02:17:32 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation
Inded it might seem like that Hardy but unless you are on the ground you really don't know any more than the next man. A word of warning though, don't mistake genuine community activism for what the Sindo might like to portray as a SF plot.
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.
As above
I don't read the Sindo, Donagh and I'm not claiming to know any more than the next man. As I said, SF's activities are seen by many who ARE on the ground as exactly as I've described.
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 02:10:19 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 22, 2009, 05:20:42 PM
It's well known that SF have been trying to infiltrate the GAA in the north for years - anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or extremely naive.
Rubbish
Absolutely true.
Shinner with no interest in football suddenly turns up at an agm and puts his hand to sit on executive committtee.
a year spent turning up to the odd meeting and doing a bit of fundraising.
next year nominated for secretary or pro or something.
everyone delighted to get some new blood in.
2 or 3 years in shinner sitting in almost every office of the club and everyone thinking back "how did that happen?"
Wouldn't be so much of an issue except usually that none of them ever kicked a ball or even went to eatch a match til HQ phone down with the assignment...
Pure tinfoil hat stuff DuffleKing and you haven't a shred of evidence to support it. Whats the motivation behind this SF plot? Are they gearing up for a run at the Sam Maguire or fix it so Cross win the club final every year? Maybe it's the first step on their plan for world domination? The GAA is a very democratic organiisation and reflective of the coummunity is which the clubs are based and as such the simple fact is that the vast majority of GAA members in the north are either SF members or voters. The same is also true for other organisations - I've already mentioned the PTAA filling Croke Park a few years ago. That organisation is also full of ex-IRA and SF members - what is going on there - a SF plot to fix the price of a pint?
Too many people losing the run of themselves on this thread.
Lads the conspiracy stuff is funny. I don't agree that they should have had the event on the field, it is too sensitive and open to condemnation by the most sensitive people in the world. The reality is that SF are more popular and consequently more people who are involved with SF will be involved in voluntary groups. They do a lot of "grass roots" work and providing sporting/social events is one of the basics of any voluntary organisation. To suggest that this is being politicized to strenghten SF hold over the community is ridiculous. Surely they would be more inclined to look at the structure of the party and the recent failures in the Local elections and how many people perceive them as being policy vacant.
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 11:18:49 AM
The GAA is a very democratic organiisation and reflective of the coummunity is which the clubs are based and as such the simple fact is that the vast majority of GAA members in the north are either SF members or voters.
And the evidence for this is?
Anyway regardless of the political allegiances of GAA members, the GAA is supposed to be a non party political organisation. It shouldn't matter is the GAA is 100% SF members, that wouldn't give them the right to use the GAA as they wish.
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 11:18:49 AM
I've already mentioned the PTAA filling Croke Park a few years ago. That organisation is also full of ex-IRA and SF members - what is going on there - a SF plot to fix the price of a pint?
Tell us more about this PTAA. Was it a SF event?
'No, I didn't forget Kingsmill, but I knew you did. I also knew you would bring it up (eventually), but I also know that it's another example of how confused about it all that you are.
Kingsmill was not a sanctioned IRA operation, however, I don't deny that there may have been individual IRA personnel involved, which is not the same thing (except perhaps in your mind).
In the context of the time, where loyalists were mounting daily murderous attacks on Catholics in that specific area of Armagh, it was a 'successful' act in that those loyalist attacks ceased (largely), however, I would never condone the taking of, or attack on, a life based on religion, and can only be abhorred.'
How do you know that Kingsmill was not a sanctioned IRA operation? Because the IRA leadership said so? This would be the same IRA leadership which denied for years any involvement in the fate of the Disappeared, the same leadership which lied and lied whenever it suited its purposes to do so and it thought it could get away with it? The same leadership which is even now having to explain to its own rank and file some of the discrepancies surrounding its account of the hunger strike negotiations with the British government? That's okay then - so long as you got it from a reliable source ::) Also, your explanation of the 'rationale' behind the Kingsmill attack is very familiar. It closely mirrors the justification used by loyalist paramilitaries for their murder of innocent Catholics, namely that it was aimed at putting pressure on republicans to stop their attacks on security forces by using the wider nationalist community almost as hostages. Like I said earlier, there was very little difference between loyalist and republican armed groups.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 23, 2009, 11:59:40 AM
And the evidence for this is?
Anyway regardless of the political allegiances of GAA members, the GAA is supposed to be a non party political organisation. It shouldn't matter is the GAA is 100% SF members, that wouldn't give them the right to use the GAA as they wish.
Tell us more about this PTAA. Was it a SF event?
1. voting patterns in areas where you find GAA clubs
2. no, it doesn't matter if it is full of SF members, I'm not the one who introduced SF to the thread. Equally being a SF member shouldn't preclude anyone from booking a GAA hall.
3. no it was a PTAA event.
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 12:29:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 23, 2009, 11:59:40 AM
And the evidence for this is?
Anyway regardless of the political allegiances of GAA members, the GAA is supposed to be a non party political organisation. It shouldn't matter is the GAA is 100% SF members, that wouldn't give them the right to use the GAA as they wish.
Tell us more about this PTAA. Was it a SF event?
1. voting patterns in areas where you find GAA clubs
2. no, it doesn't matter if it is full of SF members, I'm not the one who introduced SF to the thread. Equally being a SF member shouldn't preclude anyone from booking a GAA hall.
3. no it was a PTAA event.
1. I know plenty of people in such areas who wouldn't/don't vote for any party. There are few areas where electoral turnout is anywhere close to 100%. Therefore your 'vast majority' is merely an assumption. Anyway, as i've already said, it would be irrelevant even if 100% of GAA members were also SF members.
2. SF are central to this thread as it was their event. Of course being a SF member shouldn't preclude you from booking a GAA venue if it's for an appropriate use.
3. Then your reference to the PTAA event is as relevant as a Take That concert in Croke Park surely? I'm sure some SF members and voters were at Take That - it doesn't make it a political event as they weren't there as SF representatives.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 23, 2009, 02:19:44 PM
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 12:29:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 23, 2009, 11:59:40 AM
And the evidence for this is?
Anyway regardless of the political allegiances of GAA members, the GAA is supposed to be a non party political organisation. It shouldn't matter is the GAA is 100% SF members, that wouldn't give them the right to use the GAA as they wish.
Tell us more about this PTAA. Was it a SF event?
1. voting patterns in areas where you find GAA clubs
2. no, it doesn't matter if it is full of SF members, I'm not the one who introduced SF to the thread. Equally being a SF member shouldn't preclude anyone from booking a GAA hall.
3. no it was a PTAA event.
1. I know plenty of people in such areas who wouldn't/don't vote for any party. There are few areas where electoral turnout is anywhere close to 100%. Therefore your 'vast majority' is merely an assumption. Anyway, as i've already said, it would be irrelevant even if 100% of GAA members were also SF members.
2. SF are central to this thread as it was their event. Of course being a SF member shouldn't preclude you from booking a GAA venue if it's for an appropriate use.
3. Then your reference to the PTAA event is as relevant as a Take That concert in Croke Park surely? I'm sure some SF members and voters were at Take That - it doesn't make it a political event as they weren't there as SF representatives.
1. Do you disagree with the general point? Electoral stats are te best we have to go on and would probably provide a representative reflection. If you disagree then tell me why and give me some evidence as to the true stats.
2. Thank you. Now what is all the fuss about? The event was not party political and did not break any rules.
3. Exactly. The only reason this event is getting so much attention is because some people are upset that SF members have taken the lead and it happened in the north. And how exactly do you know which SF members were there as "SF representatives" and not as members of the commeration committee, or as historical witnesses to something that happened near 30 years ago or simply as community leaders?
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 06:21:21 PM
1. Do you disagree with the general point? Electoral stats are te best we have to go on and would probably provide a representative reflection. If you disagree then tell me why and give me some evidence as to the true stats.
But why do we have to "go on" anything? What does it matter if 100% of GAA members were SF members? It's irrelevant to this issue.
And I can't disprove anything any more than you can prove it.
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 06:21:21 PM
2. Thank you. Now what is all the fuss about? The event was not party political and did not break any rules.
It wasn't party political, yet it was organised by a political party, and members of a political party addressed the crowd, talking about their party's political policies? What relevance does SF's policy on the Lisbon Treaty, for example, have to a non party political commemoration?
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 06:21:21 PM
3. Exactly. The only reason this event is getting so much attention is because some people are upset that SF members have taken the lead and it happened in the north. And how exactly do you know which SF members were there as "SF representatives" and not as members of the commeration committee, or as historical witnesses to something that happened near 30 years ago or simply as community leaders?
No, the reason this event is getting so much attention is because it was in a GAA ground. If it had been on the road, no one would have known nor cared.
And it's pretty obvious that members were there as SF representatives. Do you really expect people to believe that Gerry Adams was there as a 'community leader'? No, he was there as SF President. If he wasn't there as a SF representative, why is his speech littered with references to his party and its policies?
It doesn't matter if the members are SF are not - that is my point. The event was organised by the commeration committee not SF. There may have been SF members on that committee but like the PTAA rally, that doesn't make it a SF or party political event. Adams was central to the Hunger Strikes regardless of his position in SF. No GAA rules were breached and this thread is only pandering to the agendas of the McDonnell and McCausland.
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 08:26:10 PM
It doesn't matter if the members are SF are not - that is my point. The event was organised by the commeration committee not SF. There may have been SF members on that committee but like the PTAA rally, that doesn't make it a SF or party political event. Adams was central to the Hunger Strikes regardless of his position in SF. No GAA rules were breached and this thread is only pandering to the agendas of the McDonnell and McCausland.
Okay, so this wasn't a party political event and the SF members in attendance we're there as representatives of the party. How do you explain the content of Gerry's speech then?
QuoteSinn Féin President Gerry Adams MP MLA [NOTE: Not attending as a 'community leader'] speaking at the National Hunger Strike Commemoration in Galbally, Co. Tyrone today said that Sinn Féin are not in the business of electoral politics for the sake of it but to bring about real change for the better in the lives of citizens.
Speaking about activism Mr Adams added:
"Activism for Irish republicans' means being firmly rooted and active in our local community; . . . and republican in our politics and motivation.
". . . our objectives are about a better Ireland, a reunited Ireland, a new inclusive society – and a new national Republic based on equality, freedom and justice."
In a strong attack on the Irish government Mr Adams said:
"The Irish government . . . is a bad government, taking bad decisions, in the interests of its money lender friends in the banks and among the developers.
"The decisions that have been taken so far and the decisions likely to emerge out of the McCarthy report and in the budget later this year, amount to an attack on the most vulnerable and disadvantaged in society.
"Instead of taxing the wealthy the Irish government is slashing public services and jobs and beating up on the unemployed, the elderly, the children and the sick."
Mr Adams said:
"The republican struggle was not and is not about bums on seats in the Executive or Parliament Buildings or Leinster House or the EU or any other forum just for the sake of it!
"Our representatives know this. They are about delivering. They are about using the political strength we have vested in them to deliver the rights and entitlements of citizens and to achieve our republican objectives.
"We are not in the business of electoral politics for the sake of it but to use the political mandate we receive to bring about real change for the better in the lives of citizens.
"Activism for Irish republicans means being firmly rooted and active in our local community; relevant in the work that we do; and republican in our politics and motivation.
"Republican politics are about the national and the social: the national and the local.
"In simple terms our objectives are about a better Ireland, a reunited Ireland, a new inclusive society – and a new national Republic based on equality, freedom and justice.
"There are a number of prongs to our activism and to our strategy.
"One is about bedding down the peace process.
"This means completing the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement; on the transfer of powers on policing and justice; on a Bill of Rights and on Acht na Gaeilge.
"It also means tackling disadvantage and poverty and injustice and delivering effective government.
"And it's also about reaching out to and engaging with unionism at all levels; community, church, political, the orange order, the working class and middle class.
"We who want a United Ireland must be prepared to persuade those who don't of the merits of our position.
"While all this is a huge challenge in many ways the work we do in the South is just as difficult.
"Since 1927 the politics of the southern state has been dominated by the two big conservative parties, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.
"The reality is that it is only in recent years that Sinn Féin has been able to seriously take on the task of building a long term political strategy in the south.
"It is a slow process but Republicans are about changing political conditions so that citizens are empowered to make their lives better, to reclaim their rights.
"The Irish government purports to be republican. There is nothing republican about its policies.
"It is not about equality or citizens rights.
"It is a bad government, taking bad decisions, in the interests of its money lender friends in the banks and among the developers.
"The decisions that have been taken so far and the decisions likely to emerge out of the McCarthy report and in the budget later this year, amount to an attack on the most vulnerable and disadvantaged in society.
"Instead of taxing the wealthy the Irish government is slashing public services and jobs and beating up on the unemployed, the elderly, the children and the sick.
"There is an urgent need to build opposition to the coalition government, and to the conservative forces in the state.
"They cannot be allowed to destroy the social fabric of Irish society.
"Our responsibility is to make republicanism relevant to our time by bringing forward commonsense and practical solutions to the chaos the conservative parties have caused.
"What is needed is a new politics delivering and implementing new policies that protect jobs, create new jobs, invest in public services and remove the threat of homelessness from tens of thousands of families.
"There are lots of potential allies out there. The prison protests in Armagh and the H Blocks brought together many people who disagreed on other issues.
"The hungerstrikes became a catalyst for a huge mass movement.
"In dire economic times, not dissimilar to today, prison candidates including Martin Hurson, received substantial votes and two prisoners were elected TDs.
"So while building Sinn Féin, we also have to help build an alliance for change.
"We have to come together with others to forge a stronger, united progressive and democratic movement for our country - one that aims to meet the needs of all citizens.
"Just as we did in that long hard summer of 1981.
"I believe that this can be done.
"The first hurdle we will face will be the re-run of the Lisbon Treaty.
"This was a bad treaty when it was first put to the electorate and it is still a bad treaty, negotiated by a bad government.
"Think about it: Would you buy a second hand treaty from this government?"
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17162
Now tell me, was this a commemoration or a party political broadcast?
I don't think anyone can deny that this speech was party political with only the briefest of references to the subject of the commemoration.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 23, 2009, 09:37:53 PM
Quote from: Donagh on August 23, 2009, 08:26:10 PM
It doesn't matter if the members are SF are not - that is my point. The event was organised by the commeration committee not SF. There may have been SF members on that committee but like the PTAA rally, that doesn't make it a SF or party political event. Adams was central to the Hunger Strikes regardless of his position in SF. No GAA rules were breached and this thread is only pandering to the agendas of the McDonnell and McCausland.
Okay, so this wasn't a party political event and the SF members in attendance we're there as representatives of the party. How do you explain the content of Gerry's speech then?
QuoteSinn Féin President Gerry Adams MP MLA [NOTE: Not attending as a 'community leader'] speaking at the National Hunger Strike Commemoration in Galbally, Co. Tyrone today said that Sinn Féin are not in the business of electoral politics for the sake of it but to bring about real change for the better in the lives of citizens.
Speaking about activism Mr Adams added:
"Activism for Irish republicans' means being firmly rooted and active in our local community; . . . and republican in our politics and motivation.
". . . our objectives are about a better Ireland, a reunited Ireland, a new inclusive society – and a new national Republic based on equality, freedom and justice."
In a strong attack on the Irish government Mr Adams said:
"The Irish government . . . is a bad government, taking bad decisions, in the interests of its money lender friends in the banks and among the developers.
"The decisions that have been taken so far and the decisions likely to emerge out of the McCarthy report and in the budget later this year, amount to an attack on the most vulnerable and disadvantaged in society.
"Instead of taxing the wealthy the Irish government is slashing public services and jobs and beating up on the unemployed, the elderly, the children and the sick."
Mr Adams said:
"The republican struggle was not and is not about bums on seats in the Executive or Parliament Buildings or Leinster House or the EU or any other forum just for the sake of it!
"Our representatives know this. They are about delivering. They are about using the political strength we have vested in them to deliver the rights and entitlements of citizens and to achieve our republican objectives.
"We are not in the business of electoral politics for the sake of it but to use the political mandate we receive to bring about real change for the better in the lives of citizens.
"Activism for Irish republicans means being firmly rooted and active in our local community; relevant in the work that we do; and republican in our politics and motivation.
"Republican politics are about the national and the social: the national and the local.
"In simple terms our objectives are about a better Ireland, a reunited Ireland, a new inclusive society – and a new national Republic based on equality, freedom and justice.
"There are a number of prongs to our activism and to our strategy.
"One is about bedding down the peace process.
"This means completing the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement; on the transfer of powers on policing and justice; on a Bill of Rights and on Acht na Gaeilge.
"It also means tackling disadvantage and poverty and injustice and delivering effective government.
"And it's also about reaching out to and engaging with unionism at all levels; community, church, political, the orange order, the working class and middle class.
"We who want a United Ireland must be prepared to persuade those who don't of the merits of our position.
"While all this is a huge challenge in many ways the work we do in the South is just as difficult.
"Since 1927 the politics of the southern state has been dominated by the two big conservative parties, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.
"The reality is that it is only in recent years that Sinn Féin has been able to seriously take on the task of building a long term political strategy in the south.
"It is a slow process but Republicans are about changing political conditions so that citizens are empowered to make their lives better, to reclaim their rights.
"The Irish government purports to be republican. There is nothing republican about its policies.
"It is not about equality or citizens rights.
"It is a bad government, taking bad decisions, in the interests of its money lender friends in the banks and among the developers.
"The decisions that have been taken so far and the decisions likely to emerge out of the McCarthy report and in the budget later this year, amount to an attack on the most vulnerable and disadvantaged in society.
"Instead of taxing the wealthy the Irish government is slashing public services and jobs and beating up on the unemployed, the elderly, the children and the sick.
"There is an urgent need to build opposition to the coalition government, and to the conservative forces in the state.
"They cannot be allowed to destroy the social fabric of Irish society.
"Our responsibility is to make republicanism relevant to our time by bringing forward commonsense and practical solutions to the chaos the conservative parties have caused.
"What is needed is a new politics delivering and implementing new policies that protect jobs, create new jobs, invest in public services and remove the threat of homelessness from tens of thousands of families.
"There are lots of potential allies out there. The prison protests in Armagh and the H Blocks brought together many people who disagreed on other issues.
"The hungerstrikes became a catalyst for a huge mass movement.
"In dire economic times, not dissimilar to today, prison candidates including Martin Hurson, received substantial votes and two prisoners were elected TDs.
"So while building Sinn Féin, we also have to help build an alliance for change.
"We have to come together with others to forge a stronger, united progressive and democratic movement for our country - one that aims to meet the needs of all citizens.
"Just as we did in that long hard summer of 1981.
"I believe that this can be done.
"The first hurdle we will face will be the re-run of the Lisbon Treaty.
"This was a bad treaty when it was first put to the electorate and it is still a bad treaty, negotiated by a bad government.
"Think about it: Would you buy a second hand treaty from this government?"
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17162
Now tell me, was this a commemoration or a party political broadcast?
I don't think anyone can deny that this speech was party political with only the briefest of references to the subject of the commemoration.
Doesn't matter a f**k what Adams had to say, all politicians will take an opportunity if it's given to them. THe simple fact is that this event was not organised by SF and was not in breach of any rules. Neither btw were any of Hunger Strike exhibitions which were held in GAA halls up and down the country a couple of years ago or the event in Cavan which I previously mentioned.
Quote from: Donagh on August 24, 2009, 12:49:47 AM
Doesn't matter a f**k what Adams had to say, all politicians will take an opportunity if it's given to them. THe simple fact is that this event was not organised by SF and was not in breach of any rules. Neither btw were any of Hunger Strike exhibitions which were held in GAA halls up and down the country a couple of years ago or the event in Cavan which I previously mentioned.
In your opinion.
we'll see
Quote from: Donagh on August 24, 2009, 12:49:47 AM
Doesn't matter a f**k what Adams had to say, all politicians will take an opportunity if it's given to them. THe simple fact is that this event was not organised by SF and was not in breach of any rules.
Is this the infiltration that was alluded to a few pages back then? It wasn't organised or planned as a party political event, but was hijacked by party politics?
Maguire1, you would think that yourself and Duffle King were two Uighurs living in China the way ye are going on. There was a commemeration of the hunger strikers in a field in Galbally and Gerry Adams said a few words which is about the size of it. As it happens what Mr adams said is not far off the mark in that if the Hunger Strikers could see today the Ireland they were prepared to die for they would not be very happy with what we have and what we have came about as the direct result of greed by a few builders and bankers. I have been to many commemerations of the Hunger Strike, I have been to see the play The Laughter of Our Children two times and on each occasion I have gone because I choose to go and on two occasions the play was held in a state funded facility. The people that attended the event in Galbally choose to go and those selective pictures of the boys with the guns were not in fact a team of terrorists rounding up people and forcing them into the field.
Last night while watching the last episode of 'The Wire' I noticed a Hunger Strikes poster hanging on the wall of a homeless shelter - looks like SF infiltrating the homeless community of Baltimore, USA. ::)
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:28:55 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 03:20:35 PM
are you norman tebbit in disguise? if a territory is gerrymandered is it truly a democracy? you spout utter nonsense fella! you keep your tory love in there! i'd be angry if your weren't so obviously a tit.
Feck off will ya, there you go throwing around West Brit stuff, everyone knows that the Northern Ireland is a false entity that has no historical reference, except the ones it has created for itself since partition. Ulster would have made more sense, but the Brits knew that it might not take long for Nationalists to outvote Unionists. The Treaty had to happen because the British would have destroyed us all. The people knew the implications of voting for or against the Treaty, they voted for. The Good Friday Agreement was voted for North & South of the Border. Can people not accept that alot of people think what the Hunger Strikers did was Wrong, & many people can't stand Sinn Fein.
pray tell how you arrive at that little cracker ?
(ps - did you find out if all the hs were killers etc yet?)
FFS , you are yet another clueless fool without the info , yet feels like they can write with authority on the topic !
::)
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
hundreds !!
come on hardy, artistic licence only goes so far.
Yes their 'defending' was of hundreds of thousands ...
plenty were grateful for it given what was heppening to the nationalist/Irish/catholic community
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.
Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!
Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.
its your (and people like you) a la carte cherry picking and lack of consistency that caused all the problems in the first place.
all very well taking 'high moral ground' ragarding people that used violence to counter violence.
Neither were right, but it was a necessity and has ended up granting a more peaceful and equal society in the north of Ireland.
easy for you when skulking below the border most of yer life.
I think Nelson McCausland would want to do a wee bit more studying of the rule book before he starts opening his cake hole. Perhaps a weekend in Cork with Frank Murphy is part of the education this man needs.
Regardless of who organised this event (so long as it wasn't actually the GAA club) it is clear that many non Sinn Féin people would support a commemoration of the hunger strikers. I don't in any way see this as SF hijacking the GAA. All this is is a cynicaly attempt by a nasty man to link the GAA to SF - the type of talk that caused many of our members to be slaughtered in cold blood. I wouldn't be at all fond of SF but its McCausland who is at fault here. And frankly the reaction of some on here is very disappointing if not unsurprising. No other sports organisation has been targetted like ours in the troubles and the pc, doff the cap attitude from some here actually disgusts me.
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 24, 2009, 03:35:17 PM
I think Nelson McCausland would want to do a wee bit more studying of the rule book before he starts opening his cake hole. Perhaps a weekend in Cork with Frank Murphy is part of the education this man needs.
Regardless of who organised this event (so long as it wasn't actually the GAA club) it is clear that many non Sinn Féin people would support a commemoration of the hunger strikers. I don't in any way see this as SF hijacking the GAA. All this is is a cynicaly attempt by a nasty man to link the GAA to SF - the type of talk that caused many of our members to be slaughtered in cold blood. I wouldn't be at all fond of SF but its McCausland who is at fault here. And frankly the reaction of some on here is very disappointing if not unsurprising. No other sports organisation has been targetted like ours in the troubles and the pc, doff the cap attitude from some here actually disgusts me.
Well said.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 06:50:20 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 05:04:57 PM
all wars are dirty and should be avoided. unfortunately in 1969 we didn't really have much choice. come to coleraine and see how equal this society is and how wearing a gaelic top can put the lives of you and your families at risk. these are the facts of the situation here. we are supposed to be in a peaceful society yet we have people on here agreeing with nelson mccausland ffs!! the man is the foulest of the foul and people who stoop to try and placate these people are living in a dream world. come up here for a look around sometime!!
Or travel round the coast a bit to Derry, put a Rangers top on and try walking round the town centre on a Friday night. See how far you get. Then when you get out of Altnagelvin, have a chat with the residents of the Fountain. You'll find you have a lot in common.
Not all the sectarian bigots are prods, and not all the victiims are Catholics.
unless you are a protestant from the fountain i fail to see what relevance this has. i was talking about my life!! not some hypothetical fantasy of yours you knob!
A member of a County Tyrone District Policing Partnership has defended taking part in a hunger strike rally.
Ruairí Gildernew, an independent member of Dungannon and South Tyrone DPP, was part of a colour party at the commemoration at Galbally GAA grounds.
Ulster Unionist Tom Elliott said his actions were "incompatible" with his DPP role and called on him to resign.
Mr Gildernew said he was on the DPP to represent republican views and would take part in such an event again.
"I think it is entirely a non-issue and Tom Elliott and the like of him are incensed that the republican movement can draw a crowd of 10,000 to 15,000 people into a nationalist area to commemorate the nationalist martyrs of the hunger strike and not one penny of policing resources was spent in policing this," he said.
Mr Gildernew said that he was "proud" to have been asked to represent the republican movement as part of the colour party.
Mr Elliott said that he had "overstepped the mark".
"Membership of a DPP means that you can't don a pseudo uniform and celebrate the life of terrorists. I would call upon Ruairí Gildernew to stand down from Dungannon DPP," Mr Elliott said.
DUP assembly member Arlene Foster has called on the Policing Board to investigate Mr Gildernew's presence at the event.
"That any member of a District Policing Partnership should don a paramilitary 'uniform' and take an active role in a ceremony commemorating what was the suicide of terrorists is totally unacceptable," she said.
"Ruairí Gildernew, on applying to take up his role as an independent member of Dungannon DPP, signed a declaration stating his opposition to terrorism.
"One wonders how his actions at Galbally can be consistent with such a pledge."
The rally hit the headlines last week when Culture Minister Nelson McCausland criticised the sporting body for hosting it.
SDLP deputy leader Alasdair McDonnell also called on the GAA to investigate why Sinn Fein was allowed to use its facilities to stage the commemoration rally.
The Policing Boards have to be representative of the community, I have no problems with Gildernew's place on the board.
Too many nationalist areas still struggling for proper policing too - not the thread to discuss this on though.
Quote from: talktothehand on August 24, 2009, 03:42:10 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 06:50:20 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 05:04:57 PM
all wars are dirty and should be avoided. unfortunately in 1969 we didn't really have much choice. come to coleraine and see how equal this society is and how wearing a gaelic top can put the lives of you and your families at risk. these are the facts of the situation here. we are supposed to be in a peaceful society yet we have people on here agreeing with nelson mccausland ffs!! the man is the foulest of the foul and people who stoop to try and placate these people are living in a dream world. come up here for a look around sometime!!
Or travel round the coast a bit to Derry, put a Rangers top on and try walking round the town centre on a Friday night. See how far you get. Then when you get out of Altnagelvin, have a chat with the residents of the Fountain. You'll find you have a lot in common.
Not all the sectarian bigots are prods, and not all the victiims are Catholics.
unless you are a protestant from the fountain i fail to see what relevance this has. i was talking about my life!! not some hypothetical fantasy of yours you knob!
This is a discussion board, not a therapy session. Get over yourself.
Quote from: orangeman on August 24, 2009, 04:47:43 PM
A member of a County Tyrone District Policing Partnership has defended taking part in a hunger strike rally.
Ruairí Gildernew, an independent member of Dungannon and South Tyrone DPP, was part of a colour party at the commemoration at Galbally GAA grounds.
You might have included the link - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8218022.stm - since we could also have seen the accompanying photograph:
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46259000/jpg/_46259452_ruari.jpg)
And so that there can be no misunderstanding of the venue for this event, as well as its nature, here is one which tells it pretty much like it is:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3829003947_a4303b388b_m.jpg)
And for the record, although described as an "independent" member of the DPP, Ruari Gildernew is a member of Sinn Fein, as is his sister Michelle (SF MP) and father Phelim (SF Councillor on Dungannon District Council).
Anyhow, GAA fans who are supportive of this sort of event can bleat all they like about the organisation being "non-political" and "open to all" etc, or blame everything on the outraged reaction of the likes of Nelson McCausland.
But in my opinion, so long as factions within the GAA are entirely happy to have their organisation associated with this sort of clearly political, non-sporting activity, and Central Council fails to take effective action to prevent it, then no-one should be surprised that Irish Unionists
of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation.
And whilst I have no idea whether GAA fans feel any sense of loss at their organisation's chronic failure to appeal significantly to around one million Irish people during the entire 125 years of its existence, as one of that million, I certainly feel no loss, merely cleaner.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.
Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!
Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.
its your (and people like you) a la carte cherry picking and lack of consistency that caused all the problems in the first place.
all very well taking 'high moral ground' ragarding people that used violence to counter violence.
Neither were right, but it was a necessity and has ended up granting a more peaceful and equal society in the north of Ireland.
easy for you when skulking below the border most of yer life.
I remember you once lecturing me that i
"assume too much". Once again you've shown your inconsistency and hypocricy (as in the case of posting the contents of a PM).
But for your information, I've lived more than two-thirds of my life north of the border.
trying to read into it as much as you want to as per usual.
The GAA did not organise or take part in this commemoration/event.
end of story.
if of course you mean you wont have any part of SF etc etc
then you will be one of many, but that has nothing to do with the GAA.
sf members are in the GAA. but they dont have any power or influence.
Even if they try to take over local club committees they will find there is little or nothing they can doother than be made lend a hand in local GAA admin and team organisation etc
get over it girls.
Nothing to do with GAA and no GAA rules were broken.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.
Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!
Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.
its your (and people like you) a la carte cherry picking and lack of consistency that caused all the problems in the first place.
all very well taking 'high moral ground' ragarding people that used violence to counter violence.
Neither were right, but it was a necessity and has ended up granting a more peaceful and equal society in the north of Ireland.
easy for you when skulking below the border most of yer life.
I remember you once lecturing me that i "assume too much". Once again you've shown your inconsistency and hypocricy (as in the case of posting the contents of a PM).
But for your information, I've lived more than two-thirds of my life north of the border.
am assuming nothing here, as for whatever length of time you have lived in the north of Ireland, you still know the square root of feck all about football as well as the topic of northern travesty etc !
you prove this time and again with your ill informed comments.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
hundreds !!
come on hardy, artistic licence only goes so far.
Yes their 'defending' was of hundreds of thousands ...
plenty were grateful for it given what was heppening to the nationalist/Irish/catholic community
Artistic licence?
There's a post earlier in this article showing that republican paramilitaries killed 447 Catholics. In total, approximately 650 IRA victims were civilians - I don't think it really matters whether they were Catholic or Protestant.
So whether or not you agree/agreed with IRA actions, or think they were justified, it's fact that these numbers are in the hundreds.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
hundreds !!
come on hardy, artistic licence only goes so far.
Yes their 'defending' was of hundreds of thousands ...
plenty were grateful for it given what was heppening to the nationalist/Irish/catholic community
Artistic licence?
There's a post earlier in this article showing that republican paramilitaries killed 447 Catholics. In total, approximately 650 IRA victims were civilians - I don't think it really matters whether they were Catholic or Protestant.
So whether or not you agree/agreed with IRA actions, or think they were justified, it's fact that these numbers are in the hundreds.
in comparison to the hundreds of thousands saved/protected... ::)
I'd still like to see the real stats though
anyhow, you dont do your research on the allegations you make yourself ....maybe better sit down and find out more before you spend/waste more of your life in the six counties ill informed and making dumb accusations/statements!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 06:36:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
hundreds !!
come on hardy, artistic licence only goes so far.
Yes their 'defending' was of hundreds of thousands ...
plenty were grateful for it given what was heppening to the nationalist/Irish/catholic community
Artistic licence?
There's a post earlier in this article showing that republican paramilitaries killed 447 Catholics. In total, approximately 650 IRA victims were civilians - I don't think it really matters whether they were Catholic or Protestant.
So whether or not you agree/agreed with IRA actions, or think they were justified, it's fact that these numbers are in the hundreds.
in comparison to the hundreds of thousands saved/protected... ::)
I'd still like to see the real stats though
We weren't talking about the numbers saved. And we can only make assumptions on such numbers anyway.
But you accused a poster of using artistic licence when he referred to 'hundreds' of Catholics killed by republicans when those numbers are an accepted fact.
I'm not sure what other 'real stats' you're referring to.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 06:36:15 PM
anyhow, you dont do your research on the allegations you make yourself ....maybe better sit down and find out more before you spend/waste more of your life in the six counties ill informed and making dumb accusations/statements!
Okay then.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 06:12:38 PM
you still know the square root of feck all about football as well as the topic of northern travesty etc !
you prove this time and again with your ill informed comments.
That was addressed to Maguire
I have come across an amount of "Northern Travesty", especially in the Derry threads.
I admit, there are some perplexing aspects :)
Maguire do you really believe that the hatred of all things Gael, directed at the GAA by right wing Unionist (which includes a few that come on to this thread), has actually any real connection to how GAA grounds are used on occasion in the North?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 06:12:38 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.
Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!
Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.
its your (and people like you) a la carte cherry picking and lack of consistency that caused all the problems in the first place.
all very well taking 'high moral ground' ragarding people that used violence to counter violence.
Neither were right, but it was a necessity and has ended up granting a more peaceful and equal society in the north of Ireland.
easy for you when skulking below the border most of yer life.
I remember you once lecturing me that i "assume too much". Once again you've shown your inconsistency and hypocricy (as in the case of posting the contents of a PM).
But for your information, I've lived more than two-thirds of my life north of the border.
am assuming nothing here, as for whatever length of time you have lived in the north of Ireland, you still know the square root of feck all about football as well as the topic of northern travesty etc !
you prove this time and again with your ill informed comments.
Well you assumed that I was
"skulking below the border most of [my] life". And you assumed wrong.
And as for your dig on my football knowledge - ooooh, it hurts sooo much :D You must really be running out of ideas.
Anyway, lets not pull this thread off-track.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 23, 2009, 12:00:16 PM
How do you know that Kingsmill was not a sanctioned IRA operation? Because the IRA leadership said so? This would be the same IRA leadership which denied for years any involvement in the fate of the Disappeared, the same leadership which lied and lied whenever it suited its purposes to do so and it thought it could get away with it? The same leadership which is even now having to explain to its own rank and file some of the discrepancies surrounding its account of the hunger strike negotiations with the British government? That's okay then - so long as you got it from a reliable source ::) Also, your explanation of the 'rationale' behind the Kingsmill attack is very familiar. It closely mirrors the justification used by loyalist paramilitaries for their murder of innocent Catholics, namely that it was aimed at putting pressure on republicans to stop their attacks on security forces by using the wider nationalist community almost as hostages. Like I said earlier, there was very little difference between loyalist and republican armed groups.
More blinkered bullshit from someone who's obviously ashamed of his Irishness. Try to learn to use the quotes eh? You're confused enough without that further obfuscation.
Yabba Dabba Do Any Taig Will Do or
Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out (originally used by the Jesuits, ironically, but then history isn't one of your loyalist friends' strong points) are not defenders' war-cries. Now, tell me, what are/were the Republican equivalents?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 06:36:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 21, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Mongander on August 21, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population
Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.
hundreds !!
come on hardy, artistic licence only goes so far.
Yes their 'defending' was of hundreds of thousands ...
plenty were grateful for it given what was heppening to the nationalist/Irish/catholic community
Artistic licence?
There's a post earlier in this article showing that republican paramilitaries killed 447 Catholics. In total, approximately 650 IRA victims were civilians - I don't think it really matters whether they were Catholic or Protestant.
So whether or not you agree/agreed with IRA actions, or think they were justified, it's fact that these numbers are in the hundreds.
in comparison to the hundreds of thousands saved/protected... ::)
I'd still like to see the real stats though
anyhow, you dont do your research on the allegations you make yourself ....maybe better sit down and find out more before you spend/waste more of your life in the six counties ill informed and making dumb accusations/statements!
:D :D :D :D
You're a gas, LB.
Quote from: Main Street on August 24, 2009, 06:47:04 PM
Maguire do you really believe that the hatred of all things Gael, directed at the GAA by right wing Unionist (which includes a few that come on to this thread), has actually any real connection to how GAA grounds are used on occasion in the North?
Main Street, I've already said explicitly that iIm not even slightly concerned with what McCausland and his 'colleagues' think about the GAA. I'm well aware that they'll never accept the GAA, no matter what. So it's not about appeasing the right-wing Unionists. At the same time, events like this just give them ammunition and publicity - an opportunity to throw mud.
For me, it's about keeping the sport and the politics separate, for the sake of the Association. It's not about doing it for anyone else. Although it's fair to say that such events aren't doing the Association any favours in the eyes of moderate Unionists or Protestants in the north and won't help the GAA's attempts to attract people from these communities.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.
Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!
Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.
its your (and people like you) a la carte cherry picking and lack of consistency that caused all the problems in the first place.
all very well taking 'high moral ground' ragarding people that used violence to counter violence.
Neither were right, but it was a necessity and has ended up granting a more peaceful and equal society in the north of Ireland.
easy for you when skulking below the border most of yer life.
I remember you once lecturing me that i "assume too much". Once again you've shown your inconsistency and hypocricy (as in the case of posting the contents of a PM).
But for your information, I've lived more than two-thirds of my life north of the border.
funny you should mention 'MY' hypocricy when you yerself broke you own pledge to me via your bleating pm some time ago professing that you wouldnt go commenting on my posts etc etc ....and you had no prob going back on yer own statement to break this in that other thread you mention....I let it pass then but as you are keen to keep up the bullsh*t, then check out yer own hypocricy ! !
Touche ! ! !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:21:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.
Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!
Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.
its your (and people like you) a la carte cherry picking and lack of consistency that caused all the problems in the first place.
all very well taking 'high moral ground' ragarding people that used violence to counter violence.
Neither were right, but it was a necessity and has ended up granting a more peaceful and equal society in the north of Ireland.
easy for you when skulking below the border most of yer life.
I remember you once lecturing me that i "assume too much". Once again you've shown your inconsistency and hypocricy (as in the case of posting the contents of a PM).
But for your information, I've lived more than two-thirds of my life north of the border.
funny you should mention 'MY' hypocricy when you yerself broke you own pledge to me via your bleating pm some time ago professing that you wouldnt go commenting on my posts etc etc ....and you had no prob going back on yer own statement to break this in that other thread you mention....I let it pass then but as you are keen to keep up the bullsh*t, then check out yer own hypocricy ! !
What can I say - I just don't have the will power! I see someone with a spade in their hand and I just have to help them dig.
But once again you break your own rules on internet etiquette by publicising the details of a PM. :o
But don't worry, i'm not that sensitive.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:21:31 PM
Touche ! ! !
And as i'm sure you're aware,
Touché is an acknowledgement of your
opponent's success. It's good to see that you came around in the end. :P
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 24, 2009, 05:44:55 PM
Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation.
That post contradicts itself a little.
Can certain posters edit the quotes to the post you are responding to please? It's very difficult to read.
More blinkered bullshit from someone who's obviously ashamed of his Irishness. Try to learn to use the quotes eh? You're confused enough without that further obfuscation.
Yabba Dabba Do Any Taig Will Do or Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out (originally used by the Jesuits, ironically, but then history isn't one of your loyalist friends' strong points) are not defenders' war-cries. Now, tell me, what are/were the Republican equivalents?
Apologies for the cut and paste - there's a glitch on my computer which means when I use the quote facility, I can't see what I'm typing. (that explains a lot, sez you :))
Enough of the pleasantries: why do you conclude that I'm ashamed to be Irish? Genuine question. As for your other comments - seriously, like, I'm not going to get into a discussion about which group of paramilitaries had the best sectarian chants. ::)
Maguire I agree 100% with you .
Quote from: Zapatista on August 24, 2009, 11:04:20 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 24, 2009, 05:44:55 PM
Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation.
That post contradicts itself a little.
Can certain posters edit the quotes to the post you are responding to please? It's very difficult to read.
is this better?
QuoteIrish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation.
Quote from: Main Street on August 24, 2009, 11:21:18 PM
is this better?
Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation.
I'm not sure of your point.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 24, 2009, 11:05:31 PM
Enough of the pleasantries: why do you conclude that I'm ashamed to be Irish? Genuine question. As for your other comments - seriously, like, I'm not going to get into a discussion about which group of paramilitaries had the best sectarian chants. ::)
Any neutral commentator or historian will adjudge that the loyalist paramilitaries were simply sectarian killers (Susan Mc Kay, a northern Protestant, for example), who in reality counted success by the dead body count of Catholics alone, where their victims' total innocence was an irrelevance to them. Those same commentators will concede that the IRA had political criteria as the primary determinant of their targets. Hence it didn't matter whether an RUC or UDR man was Catholic or Protestant. And I draw a fundamental distinction here between what you are born by chance and what you become by choice, and when you choose to become an armed player in a political conflict it's not unexpected that you'll be targeted as a result. The IRA expected that too, and it was all a fairly nasty business.
Of all the operations that the loyalists have carried out can you cite ten that didn't involve the deliberate targeting of innocent Catholics? I know you can cite ten dubious IRA operations of the thousands that they carried out, but I'll be surprised if can quote the reverse for the loyalists.
Therefore, if you see one as fundamentally bad as the other here, I can only conclude that you're guilt ridden about something, and therefore you have to tell yourself that one was as bad as the other to rationalise it within your own mind, i.e., if you're shameful of some aspect of your Irishness you need to pin it on something, and ascribing equal baseness to both the IRA and the loyalist paramilitaries would be one way of squaring that circle.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 24, 2009, 06:47:04 PM
Maguire do you really believe that the hatred of all things Gael, directed at the GAA by right wing Unionist (which includes a few that come on to this thread), has actually any real connection to how GAA grounds are used on occasion in the North?
Main Street, I've already said explicitly that iIm not even slightly concerned with what McCausland and his 'colleagues' think about the GAA. I'm well aware that they'll never accept the GAA, no matter what. So it's not about appeasing the right-wing Unionists. At the same time, events like this just give them ammunition and publicity - an opportunity to throw mud.
For me, it's about keeping the sport and the politics separate, for the sake of the Association. It's not about doing it for anyone else. Although it's fair to say that such events aren't doing the Association any favours in the eyes of moderate Unionists or Protestants in the north and won't help the GAA's attempts to attract people from these communities.
Fair enough then this is probaby what lynchboy was referring to when he talked of northern travesty.
The GAA is not a part of the forces that want to keep people apart or keep Irish sport away from schools.
Did you ever think it might be a good beginning to strip mcCausland of any political responsibility for his attempts to raise levels of hatred and vitriol against another section of the community who are merely engaging in a peacefull civil commemoration.
Quote from: Zapatista on August 24, 2009, 11:24:35 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 24, 2009, 11:21:18 PM
is this better?
Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation.
I'm not sure of your point.
you wrote
"Can certain posters edit the quotes to the post you are responding to please? It's very difficult to read."
I gave a demonstration that it is possible to edit the quote of the post you are responding to make it easier to read.
Obviously that was not an answer to your question even though it looked like it to me that it was an answer to your question.
Why do I bother? :)
So anyone who didn't support the most recent republican campaign "is ashamed of their irishness"?
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2009, 12:01:51 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 24, 2009, 06:47:04 PM
Maguire do you really believe that the hatred of all things Gael, directed at the GAA by right wing Unionist (which includes a few that come on to this thread), has actually any real connection to how GAA grounds are used on occasion in the North?
Main Street, I've already said explicitly that iIm not even slightly concerned with what McCausland and his 'colleagues' think about the GAA. I'm well aware that they'll never accept the GAA, no matter what. So it's not about appeasing the right-wing Unionists. At the same time, events like this just give them ammunition and publicity - an opportunity to throw mud.
For me, it's about keeping the sport and the politics separate, for the sake of the Association. It's not about doing it for anyone else. Although it's fair to say that such events aren't doing the Association any favours in the eyes of moderate Unionists or Protestants in the north and won't help the GAA's attempts to attract people from these communities.
Fair enough then this is probaby what lynchboy was referring to when he talked of northern travesty.
The GAA is not a part of the forces that want to keep people apart or keep Irish sport away from schools.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that(?)
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2009, 12:01:51 AM
Did you ever think it might be a good beginning to strip mcCausland of any political responsibility for his attempts to raise levels of hatred and vitriol against another section of the community who are merely engaging in a peacefull civil commemoration.
That's a strange one. Obviously, if I had my way, I wouldn't have him anywhere near government. And I would never have a DUP politician anywhere near the Culture, Arts & Leisure portfolio, such is their narrow view of what culture constitutes, and their constsnt attempts to try and undermine aspects of Irish culture.
But at the end of the day, he hasn't broken the law and this is democratic politics - he has a mandate, and like it or not, he's probably a fair reflection of the opinions and attitudes of a large proportion of his constituents (which is clearly a terrible thought) - so what can you do?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 10:44:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:21:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 24, 2009, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 21, 2009, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 21, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Son_of_Sam on August 21, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!
Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.
Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.
Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!
Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.
its your (and people like you) a la carte cherry picking and lack of consistency that caused all the problems in the first place.
all very well taking 'high moral ground' ragarding people that used violence to counter violence.
Neither were right, but it was a necessity and has ended up granting a more peaceful and equal society in the north of Ireland.
easy for you when skulking below the border most of yer life.
I remember you once lecturing me that i "assume too much". Once again you've shown your inconsistency and hypocricy (as in the case of posting the contents of a PM).
But for your information, I've lived more than two-thirds of my life north of the border.
funny you should mention 'MY' hypocricy when you yerself broke you own pledge to me via your bleating pm some time ago professing that you wouldnt go commenting on my posts etc etc ....and you had no prob going back on yer own statement to break this in that other thread you mention....I let it pass then but as you are keen to keep up the bullsh*t, then check out yer own hypocricy ! !
What can I say - I just don't have the will power! I see someone with a spade in their hand and I just have to help them dig.
But once again you break your own rules on internet etiquette by publicising the details of a PM. :o
But don't worry, i'm not that sensitive.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2009, 10:21:31 PM
Touche ! ! !
And as i'm sure you're aware, Touché is an acknowledgement of your opponent's success. It's good to see that you came around in the end. :P
FFS ::)
I did not 'post the contents of your whinging pm to me' ::)
so rebuttal number 1.
I put in touche as I know you would never admit back that I caught you out at your own game !
...so you now have no 'stats' that you referred to though were happy to quote them at me !
Artistic license stands !
so much time spent in the six counties yet so little understanding and knowledge !
Obv arrived late in the game and as a late sub you dont get any rating !
Quote from: Zapatista on August 24, 2009, 11:04:20 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 24, 2009, 05:44:55 PM
Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation.
That post contradicts itself a little.
Unless you are having difficulty with my describing myself as an "Irish Unionist" i.e. an Irishman who believes in the Union of (Northern) Ireland with Great Britain, I'm not sure what is contradictory about that? ???
Anyhow, the point I was making was that GAA fans should not try to ascribe Unionist anger at such events solely to hardline politicians like McCausland (someone who, since he is a DUP representative, I would never ever vote for, btw).
I have no doubt whatever that even the most moderate of Unionists find such a blithe mixing of "sport" with extreme Republican politics/terrorism/criminality etc to be utterly obnoxious and repellent.
Therefore when GAA fans who try to assert that sport is "open to all", they must be made to confront the hard reality that the GAA may retain its Republican/Nationalist ethos, or, it may hope to attract Irish Unionists, but it hasn't a snowball's chance in Hell of doing both.
"I have no doubt whatever that even the most moderate of Unionists find such a blithe mixing of "sport" with extreme Republican politics/terrorism/criminality etc to be utterly obnoxious and repellent."
As the hunger strikers commemoration would have sympathy right throughout the nationalist community in the 6 counties, that would translate to an obnoxious and repellant attitude towards the nationalist community from so called moderate Unionists, as well as an obnoxious and repellant attitude towards the GAA.
Not too dissimilar to the antics of so called hardliner McCausland.
It is nothing less than communal hatred.
Quote from: Main Street on August 25, 2009, 11:36:22 AM
"I have no doubt whatever that even the most moderate of Unionists find such a blithe mixing of "sport" with extreme Republican politics/terrorism/criminality etc to be utterly obnoxious and repellent."
As the hunger strikers commemoration would have sympathy right throughout the nationalist community in the 6 counties, that would translate to an obnoxious and repellant attitude towards the nationalist community from so called moderate Unionists, as well as an obnoxious and repellant attitude towards the GAA.
Not too dissimilar to the antics of so called hardliner McCausland.
It is nothing less than communal hatred.
If that's how you want to interpret my post, then knock yourself out.
I am merely pointing out that the average Unionist views displays of paramilitarism by men in dark glasses and black berets etc, or the "armed patrols" by men in balaclavas etc, such as those in and around Galbally to be obnoxious and repellent.
Of course, we also accept that such things go on, and have a degree of sympathy and support amongst our Nationalist neighbours etc.
Nonetheless, when the GAA turns a blind eye to member clubs hosting such demonstrations, indeed to organising childrens' tournaments in "honour" of someone like Joe Cahill (seen by us as an unrepentently sectarian, murderous monster), then as a group, we will decline to have anything to do with the GAA.
But then, as I've pointed out many times before on this Board, the GAA is your organisation and may do as you, its members, see fit. Just don't expect us to want anything to do with it if Galbally is the sort of thing we'd have to put up with as the "price" for our participation. >:(
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 12:16:39 PM
I am merely pointing out that the average Unionist views displays of paramilitarism by men in dark glasses and black berets etc, or the "armed patrols" by men in balaclavas etc, such as those in and around Galbally to be obnoxious and repellent.
So does the average nationalist.
Quote from: Hardy on August 25, 2009, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 12:16:39 PM
I am merely pointing out that the average Unionist views displays of paramilitarism by men in dark glasses and black berets etc, or the "armed patrols" by men in balaclavas etc, such as those in and around Galbally to be obnoxious and repellent.
So does the average nationalist.
(Assuming you are correct) I'm gratified that that is so.
Anyhow, Gail Walker offers an interesting perspective in today's Belly Telly:
How GAA scored an own goal over SF demonstration (Tuesday, 25 August 2009)
Gail Walker, Belfast Telegraph
Just because it's Nelson McCausland, it doesn't mean he's wrong. The events surrounding that Hunger Strike anniversary rally at Galbally GAA grounds pose very disturbing questions for the organisation.
Since McCausland's measured statement about his concerns, we've had a lot of flack raised in a bid to make the issue 'just go away'. The DUPer's refusal to attend Catholic services; the admission that he doesn't follow the sport; and, well, he's Nelson McCausland.
Nelson McCausland measured? Well, yes. In his statements, he's made it clear that he thinks many in the GAA will be horrified with the rally. He calls for a rapid investigation.
He hasn't foamed at the mouth, called for the GAA to be banned or hit by the withdrawal of public funds, just that it bring forward recommendations to ensure this won't happen again.
McCausland was simply reflecting the concerns of many here —and not just unionists.
Yet SF's defence of the rally has been surreal. While the military-style parade is beyond question following publication of photographs of men on the pitch, the balaclava'ed men with the guns were on the streets outside.
Anyway,according to SF, it was — and it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic —'street theatre' put on by actors. (Actors? Were they Equity members or are we talking AmDram? "No, we're not doing Run For Your Wife this year, but something more edgy, Armed Struggle. Frank, you're the Quartermaster ...") Oh, and lack of facilities in Tyrone meant the republicans had nowhere else to go.
Let's be blunt. This wasn't a vague cultural demonstration, but a Hunger Strike commemoratation, sponsored by Sinn Fein, addressed by Gerry Adams and celebrating the struggle not just of the Hunger Strikers but of the IRA itself.
Theatre or not, inside the ground or not, the pictures on the internet glorify terrorism. And yet we're meant to believe that somehow this isn't party political and flying in the face of the GAA's own constitution.
Party political? No, cry |the event's defenders, it also |commemorated INLA hunger strikers. And any part of the wider republican 'family' — left, mainstream SF or, er, dissident — were welcome to come along.
It was a broader 'community event'. So, er, 7A hasn't technically been breached.
Imagine the response to a rally at Windsor Park commemorating the sacrifice of UDA and UVF 'volunteers', complete with paramilitary trappings?
Linfield out of the Irish League? The NI footballing authorities in crisis? A withdrawal of public funds? A campaign to ban Northern Ireland from international sporting events?
None are ridiculous scenarios, yet we're meant to believe that it's 'just different' when it comes to the GAA.
The Association's response to the crisis has been less than convincing. After McCausland's complaints, the organisation made a terse 'No Comment'.
It was only after SDLP deputy leader Alasdair McDonnell complained to the GAA leadership in Dublin that the organisation creaked into action, changed tack and said that they were "not aware" of the event until afterwards and had determined to find out what happened and "the involvement of the association in these events, if any".Doesn't exactly sound like anyone's been given 24 hours to crack the case, does it? And what's this "if any" business?
Are the GAA seriously suggesting the Galbally ground was somehow "taken over" by republicans without the association's permission? Even though the event had, apparently, been advertised for weeks.
Good relations cut both ways. It isn't just up to unionists to be nice to nationalists. It works the other way round too. Many — and, yes, mainly unionists (but unionists are, in the final analysis, human beings too) — will not remember hunger strikers as 'martyrs' but as part of an organisation dedicated to low level ethnic cleansing. They will ask why is the GAA giving its blessing to Sinn Fein's version of the Troubles?
We're constantly being reminded by our betters, that it's time to move on, and it is. But that applies as much to the GAA — or (weary sigh) 'elements within it' — as anyone else. Instead of playing host to a sinister version of the Commemoration Game, it should get into the 21st century.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gail-walker/gail-walker-how-gaa-scored-an-own-goal-over-sf-demonstration-14467025.html
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 24, 2009, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 24, 2009, 03:42:10 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 21, 2009, 06:50:20 PM
Quote from: talktothehand on August 21, 2009, 05:04:57 PM
all wars are dirty and should be avoided. unfortunately in 1969 we didn't really have much choice. come to coleraine and see how equal this society is and how wearing a gaelic top can put the lives of you and your families at risk. these are the facts of the situation here. we are supposed to be in a peaceful society yet we have people on here agreeing with nelson mccausland ffs!! the man is the foulest of the foul and people who stoop to try and placate these people are living in a dream world. come up here for a look around sometime!!
Or travel round the coast a bit to Derry, put a Rangers top on and try walking round the town centre on a Friday night. See how far you get. Then when you get out of Altnagelvin, have a chat with the residents of the Fountain. You'll find you have a lot in common.
Not all the sectarian bigots are prods, and not all the victiims are Catholics.
unless you are a protestant from the fountain i fail to see what relevance this has. i was talking about my life!! not some hypothetical fantasy of yours you knob!
This is a discussion board, not a therapy session. Get over yourself.
in our estate we had a man kicked to death in front of his wife and another nearly so. if you think i'm going to listen to you spouting shite and let it go unchallenged you are very much mistaken. you may be ashamed of what you are pal but i'm not. you sound like an alliance candidate who has never lived in ireland. this is a GAA discussion board so i fail to see the point you were making. it was certainly off topic at the very least. no one said sectarianism was a one way street but my point was in relation to northern irish catholics having a gaelic/irish/republican viewpoint that is dangerous to your own safety. when the IRA walk into the fountain with 100 people(like the UDA did here) then i will agree with the arguement you were trying to make.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 12:42:27 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 25, 2009, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 12:16:39 PM
I am merely pointing out that the average Unionist views displays of paramilitarism by men in dark glasses and black berets etc, or the "armed patrols" by men in balaclavas etc, such as those in and around Galbally to be obnoxious and repellent.
So does the average nationalist.
(Assuming you are correct) I'm gratified that that is so.
It's fine to be gratified, but what does that achieve? It's not the average nationalist that you will have difficulty reaching an accommodation with. The man with his head in the freezer and his feet in the oven is, on average, at a comfortable temperature.
Gratification that the majority feels uncomfortable with paramilitary trappings doesn't do anything to help you live with the people who see their history in a different light than you (or me or whoever else). The point is that they exist in large numbers. Your disapproval won't make them change their minds, so you'll have to come to terms with their existence and their beliefs. Same as they'll have to come to terms with the OO marching through the streets proclaiming their contempt for the religion of their neighbours.
Personally, I'd like to see an end to all parades and commemorations, as an earnest from each side to accommodate the sensitivities of the other. But that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. Until it does, I think all we can do is our best to ignore the ones we don't like and try to resist the temptation to jump up and down about them and make an issue of every one as it arises.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 11:19:47 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on August 24, 2009, 11:04:20 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 24, 2009, 05:44:55 PM
Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation.
That post contradicts itself a little.
Unless you are having difficulty with my describing myself as an "Irish Unionist" i.e. an Irishman who believes in the Union of (Northern) Ireland with Great Britain, I'm not sure what is contradictory about that? ???
Anyhow, the point I was making was that GAA fans should not try to ascribe Unionist anger at such events solely to hardline politicians like McCausland (someone who, since he is a DUP representative, I would never ever vote for, btw).
I have no doubt whatever that even the most moderate of Unionists find such a blithe mixing of "sport" with extreme Republican politics/terrorism/criminality etc to be utterly obnoxious and repellent.
Therefore when GAA fans who try to assert that sport is "open to all", they must be made to confront the hard reality that the GAA may retain its Republican/Nationalist ethos, or, it may hope to attract Irish Unionists, but it hasn't a snowball's chance in Hell of doing both.
there will be a lot of people like you who will WANT to take offense at this and try to continue to insist that the GAA had anything to do with whatever demonstration etc took place or indeed takes place.
there are Irish unionists that play gaelic games and have the sense to realise that in the current pseudo-state that the 6 counties are, there will be demonstrations and marches etc on both sides until the renunification outlaws them all ( with a bit of luck) , but these are confined to a few areas where shows of patriotism run high. they mean feck all and dont affect these GAA players (no more than they affect the nationalist/catholic/Irishsoccer players that have to put up the sectarinism that still exists in the ifa and irish league/northern ireland soccer team.
but knock yourself out speaking for the 'Irish unionists' that you seem to think you are representing - I dont think the Irish unionist hurlers in fermanagh or down for example are heeding or listening to you !
Imagine the response to a rally at Windsor Park commemorating the sacrifice of UDA and UVF 'volunteers', complete with paramilitary trappings?
I have stayed out of this debate because TBH I couldn't really make my mind up about what I felt was right and wrong but I think the above line has done just that. I do not feel ashamed about the actions in the past of Volunteers such as the Hunger Strikers.I do not view them as terrorists like some on here.I also feel that it is important to remember the sacrifices these men and others have made to rid this country of a foreign ruler. What I do feel however is that the actions of these men were in a different time and different political climate and it is best that for the purpose of everybody moving on that demonstrations and paramilitary style shows like the pictures we have seen should be a thing of the past-Especially on GAA grounds.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 12:42:27 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 25, 2009, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 12:16:39 PM
I am merely pointing out that the average Unionist views displays of paramilitarism by men in dark glasses and black berets etc, or the "armed patrols" by men in balaclavas etc, such as those in and around Galbally to be obnoxious and repellent.
So does the average nationalist.
(Assuming you are correct) I'm gratified that that is so.
Anyhow, Gail Walker offers an interesting perspective in today's Belly Telly:
How GAA scored an own goal over SF demonstration (Tuesday, 25 August 2009)
Gail Walker, Belfast Telegraph
Just because it's Nelson McCausland, it doesn't mean he's wrong. The events surrounding that Hunger Strike anniversary rally at Galbally GAA grounds pose very disturbing questions for the organisation.
Since McCausland's measured statement about his concerns, we've had a lot of flack raised in a bid to make the issue 'just go away'. The DUPer's refusal to attend Catholic services; the admission that he doesn't follow the sport; and, well, he's Nelson McCausland.
Nelson McCausland measured? Well, yes. In his statements, he's made it clear that he thinks many in the GAA will be horrified with the rally. He calls for a rapid investigation.
He hasn't foamed at the mouth, called for the GAA to be banned or hit by the withdrawal of public funds, just that it bring forward recommendations to ensure this won't happen again.
McCausland was simply reflecting the concerns of many here —and not just unionists.
Yet SF's defence of the rally has been surreal. While the military-style parade is beyond question following publication of photographs of men on the pitch, the balaclava'ed men with the guns were on the streets outside.
Anyway,according to SF, it was — and it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic —'street theatre' put on by actors. (Actors? Were they Equity members or are we talking AmDram? "No, we're not doing Run For Your Wife this year, but something more edgy, Armed Struggle. Frank, you're the Quartermaster ...") Oh, and lack of facilities in Tyrone meant the republicans had nowhere else to go.
Let's be blunt. This wasn't a vague cultural demonstration, but a Hunger Strike commemoratation, sponsored by Sinn Fein, addressed by Gerry Adams and celebrating the struggle not just of the Hunger Strikers but of the IRA itself.
Theatre or not, inside the ground or not, the pictures on the internet glorify terrorism. And yet we're meant to believe that somehow this isn't party political and flying in the face of the GAA's own constitution.
Party political? No, cry |the event's defenders, it also |commemorated INLA hunger strikers. And any part of the wider republican 'family' — left, mainstream SF or, er, dissident — were welcome to come along.
It was a broader 'community event'. So, er, 7A hasn't technically been breached.
Imagine the response to a rally at Windsor Park commemorating the sacrifice of UDA and UVF 'volunteers', complete with paramilitary trappings?
Linfield out of the Irish League? The NI footballing authorities in crisis? A withdrawal of public funds? A campaign to ban Northern Ireland from international sporting events?
None are ridiculous scenarios, yet we're meant to believe that it's 'just different' when it comes to the GAA.
The Association's response to the crisis has been less than convincing. After McCausland's complaints, the organisation made a terse 'No Comment'.
It was only after SDLP deputy leader Alasdair McDonnell complained to the GAA leadership in Dublin that the organisation creaked into action, changed tack and said that they were "not aware" of the event until afterwards and had determined to find out what happened and "the involvement of the association in these events, if any".Doesn't exactly sound like anyone's been given 24 hours to crack the case, does it? And what's this "if any" business?
Are the GAA seriously suggesting the Galbally ground was somehow "taken over" by republicans without the association's permission? Even though the event had, apparently, been advertised for weeks.
Good relations cut both ways. It isn't just up to unionists to be nice to nationalists. It works the other way round too. Many — and, yes, mainly unionists (but unionists are, in the final analysis, human beings too) — will not remember hunger strikers as 'martyrs' but as part of an organisation dedicated to low level ethnic cleansing. They will ask why is the GAA giving its blessing to Sinn Fein's version of the Troubles?
We're constantly being reminded by our betters, that it's time to move on, and it is. But that applies as much to the GAA — or (weary sigh) 'elements within it' — as anyone else. Instead of playing host to a sinister version of the Commemoration Game, it should get into the 21st century.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gail-walker/gail-walker-how-gaa-scored-an-own-goal-over-sf-demonstration-14467025.html
not much of an argument - just a piece that tries to contnue to inflame.
Misses the goalposts though.
Rule 7A has not ben breached.
These people are obv trying to get so much press going that the GAA has to make a move to ban these marches etc.
will we see the same people in the media then turn their attention to the sectarian oo marches, the sectarian soccer practices or the sectarian un-eveness of the psni at places like coleraine ?
I wont be holding my breath.
Quote from: Hardy on August 25, 2009, 01:19:58 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 12:42:27 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 25, 2009, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 12:16:39 PM
I am merely pointing out that the average Unionist views displays of paramilitarism by men in dark glasses and black berets etc, or the "armed patrols" by men in balaclavas etc, such as those in and around Galbally to be obnoxious and repellent.
So does the average nationalist.
(Assuming you are correct) I'm gratified that that is so.
It's fine to be gratified, but what does that achieve? It's not the average nationalist that you will have difficulty reaching an accommodation with. The man with his head in the freezer and his feet in the oven is, on average, at a comfortable temperature.
It wasn't meant to "achieve" anything, it was merely a statement of my opinion, as well as an acknowledgement of yours.
Quote from: Hardy on August 25, 2009, 01:19:58 PM
Gratification that the majority feels uncomfortable with paramilitary trappings doesn't do anything to help you live with the people who see their history in a different light than you (or me or whoever else). The point is that they exist in large numbers.
Did you not notice my acknowledgement of that when I added in the same post:
"Of course, we also accept that such things go on, and [such things] have a degree of sympathy and support amongst our Nationalist neighbours etc" ???
Quote from: Hardy on August 25, 2009, 01:19:58 PM
Your disapproval won't make them change their minds, so you'll have to come to terms with their existence and their beliefs. Same as they'll have to come to terms with the OO marching through the streets proclaiming their contempt for the religion of their neighbours.
Jeez, talk about missing the [my] point!
Imo, everyone who lives in NI has a duty to "come to terms with" neighbours who hold differing views to his/her own (assuming, of course, there is no illegality involved).
Which is why I never claimed that political (or other) groups may not eg commemorate the Hunger Strikers. Indeed, I have never claimed that GAA clubs may not get involved, either. (Your organisation, your choice, remember).
But that is a hell of a sight away from requiring people (in this case, Unionists) to "approve", condone or overlook manifestations of contrary opinions which we find deeply repugnant and offensive.
For under the principle of freedom of speech and conscience, we Unionists must be allowed to express our contempt for such demonstrations every bit as freely as eg the organisers of this demonstration may express their contempt for us (i.e. the very people who were threatened, targeted and murdered by the men in black berets or balaclavas etc.)
Which principle applies exactly the same for the OO. I personally hold no brief for that organisation - I think it is anachronistic, needlessly provocative at times and dreadfully badly led (in particular), such that certain members have behaved disgracefully on occasion.
Which is why I have nothing to do with it (despite having a family history of involvement which goes back at least decades).
But in describing the OO as being:
"anachronistic*, needlessly provocative at times and dreadfully badly led (in particular), such that certain members have behaved disgracefully on occasion", I might just as easily make the same claim about the GAA, which is why I have nothing to do with that organisation, either.
However, I will make one significant distinction between the OO and the GAA. Namely, the OO is unreprentant about being a sectarian/political organisation, whose membership may be drawn only from one community in NI.
By contrast, the GAA claims to be "open to all", whilst at the same time retaining a sectional, partisan and controversial political ethos.
Which in itself would be bad enough, were it not that sport, which elsewhere in the world has proven capable of being a force for good and a means of bringing people together, should not imo allow itself to be hijacked by (collude with? promote?) any partisan political movement or other, especially in so controversial a context as Ireland.
* - I would not desribe the GAA as "anachronistic"
per se , however I do consider that it has an severely and unwelcome anachronitic streak to it, in the way it insists on clinging onto 19th Century political values, even whilst the rest of us are stumbling our way into the 21st Century.
Quote from: Hardy on August 25, 2009, 01:19:58 PM
Personally, I'd like to see an end to all parades and commemorations, as an earnest from each side to accommodate the sensitivities of the other. But that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. Until it does, I think all we can do is our best to ignore the ones we don't like and try to resist the temptation to jump up and down about them and make an issue of every one as it arises.
Fine.
If it suits you for us to "ignore" what goes on in GAA grounds and clubhouses etc, then we will do so.
Just don't try and blame
us for believing the GAA's claim to be "open to all" to be a crock of shit. Or for declining to get involved with such an organisation. Or for feeling aggrieved that taxpayers' money which ought by law to be allocated to sporting groups which are non-partisan, is instead going to clubs such as Galbally Pearses GAC, which prove unwilling and/or unwilling to live up to the spirit of such law, if not the letter:
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/qanda/2007mandate/writtenans/2008/090213.htm
Galbally Pearses GFC - Construction of a natural turf training pitch - £200,565
I see no issue whatsoever with a Hunger Strike commemoration, in fact it's something that should be remembered, however the fact that it was held in a GAA ground is regrettable and very short sighted indeed by the Sinn Fein leadership.I also feel that most Unionists don't understand why so many Nationalists/Republicans feel the need to commemorate these men and this period in our recent history. I would love to know if anyone has ever actually tried to explain to the wider Unionist community why we feel these events are so important.
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
I see no issue whatsoever with a Hunger Strike commemoration, in fact it's something that should be remembered, however the fact that it was held in a GAA ground is regrettable and very short sighted indeed by the Sinn Fein leadership.I also feel that most Unionists don't understand why so many Nationalists/Republicans feel the need to commemorate these men and this period in our recent history. I would love to know if anyone has ever actually tried to explain to the wider Unionist community why we feel these events are so important.
Yeah - thats the nub of it really. It seems to me all Unioniost just write off the Hunger Strikers as terrorists whereas a lot of very anti-IRA nationalists have sympathy for them and what they did.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 02:42:11 PM
Just don't try and blame us for believing the GAA's claim to be "open to all" to be a crock of shit. Or for declining to get involved with such an organisation. Or for feeling aggrieved that taxpayers' money which ought by law to be allocated to sporting groups which are non-partisan, is instead going to clubs such as Galbally Pearses GAC, which prove unwilling and/or unwilling to live up to the spirit of such law, if not the letter:
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/qanda/2007mandate/writtenans/2008/090213.htm
Galbally Pearses GFC - Construction of a natural turf training pitch - £200,565
Here we go, the crux of the matter. Begrudgery at its finest. Don't the club members of Galbally pay taxes as well? The plain and simple fact is that because a club/community like Galbally can get its shit together and do their planning, satisfy funders that the money will be spent were it is supposed to be spent and provide top quality facilities for a rural area, it's the way of the world people will try to knock their achievement. Lets be perfectly fair about this, every time Unionists representatives are "outraged" about something that happens within the GAA the funding issue is always dragged up. Where I'm standing, much of this faux outrage is blatantly attempting to take this funding away because of the inability of Unionist community groups to get their own houses in order.
Quote from: tyrone86 on August 25, 2009, 03:26:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 02:42:11 PM
Just don't try and blame us for believing the GAA's claim to be "open to all" to be a crock of shit. Or for declining to get involved with such an organisation. Or for feeling aggrieved that taxpayers' money which ought by law to be allocated to sporting groups which are non-partisan, is instead going to clubs such as Galbally Pearses GAC, which prove unwilling and/or unwilling to live up to the spirit of such law, if not the letter:
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/qanda/2007mandate/writtenans/2008/090213.htm
Galbally Pearses GFC - Construction of a natural turf training pitch - £200,565
Here we go, the crux of the matter. Begrudgery at its finest. Don't the club members of Galbally pay taxes as well? The plain and simple fact is that because a club/community like Galbally can get its shit together and do their planning, satisfy funders that the money will be spent were it is supposed to be spent and provide top quality facilities for a rural area, it's the way of the world people will try to knock their achievement. Lets be perfectly fair about this, every time Unionists representatives are "outraged" about something that happens within the GAA the funding issue is always dragged up. Where I'm standing, much of this faux outrage is blatantly attempting to take this funding away because of the inability of Unionist community groups to get their own houses in order.
when we hear and see action from the unionist (Irish or british) side of the house getting stuck into the still yet sectarian bodies and operations from the likes of n. Ireland soccer, psni, oo, dup etc - then I'll believe that this is anything other than a sectarian bleat.
Ultimately all these marches from both sides will be banned and rightly so.
Until there is equality on this front the hypocricy from unionist mouthpieces is laughable.
as for sf leadership giving a feck- they dont and wont because their own agenda is nothing to do with that of the GAA's.
the GAA could come out and ban events being held in their grounds by third party groups - but this would and could lead to the likes fo croke park being off limits to soccer/rugby/u2 when they all come cap in hand looking for the use of the stadium again...
I certanly dont want to ban stuff from our grounds that should be dealt with in legal areas in the sectarian north. looking at the ni soccer,oo and psni examples, I wont hold my breath for anything to be done.
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
I see no issue whatsoever with a Hunger Strike commemoration, in fact it's something that should be remembered, however the fact that it was held in a GAA ground is regrettable and very short sighted indeed by the Sinn Fein leadership.
On the contrary, imo the SF leadership is being rather far-sighted (or at least "cute"), in pursuing a strategy of entryism into the GAA in NI.
It is the
GAA (Central Council) which is being "short-sighted", if not blind, by failing to take effective action to bolster those ordinary members who may feel uneasy at seeing what should be primarily a sporting organisation being hijacked for nefarious political ends by partisan political/paramilitary figures.
Unless, of course, the leadership of the GAA does not actually object to events such as those at Galbally (or a previous similar event at Kevin Lynch's new pitch laying ceremony, when Nicky Brennan happily shared a platform with eg Martin McGuinness, whilst another "colour party" paraded along the pitch in front of him).
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
I also feel that most Unionists don't understand why so many Nationalists/Republicans feel the need to commemorate these men and this period in our recent history. I would love to know if anyone has ever actually tried to explain to the wider Unionist community why we feel these events are so important.
I dare say you are right that Unionists don't fully understand Republican attitudes towards eg the Hunger Strikes.
Indeed I would go further by agreeing that it would benefit us greatly to understand more.
But do you honestly believe that a carefully orchestrated display of pure propaganda, such as that mounted by SF etc at Galbally, is ever going to be taken seriously for its objectivity and "educational" value, by any but the most gullible of Unionists? Get real! ::)
Galbally was nothing to do with SF's "mission to explain" the Hunger Strikes etc to a Unionist audience, and everything to do with re-asserting their own Republican credentials to its (Ourselves Alone) own constituency, in the face of a potential leeching of support to the Dissidents. That is, SF can no longer be seen to be brandishing real weapons wearing its IRA beret or balaclava, so they march up and down with plastic weapons and term the "volunteers" in the berets and balaclavas "Historical re-enactors"... ::)
And the fact that they can drag the GAA into their politicking is merely "two for the price of one", since everyone knows that the GAA's "constituency" is a purely* Nationalist one, too.
* - At least since Darren Graham was (ahem) "disappeared"... ::)
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 04:21:31 PM
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
I see no issue whatsoever with a Hunger Strike commemoration, in fact it's something that should be remembered, however the fact that it was held in a GAA ground is regrettable and very short sighted indeed by the Sinn Fein leadership.
On the contrary, imo the SF leadership is being rather far-sighted (or at least "cute"), in pursuing a strategy of entryism into the GAA in NI.
It is the GAA (Central Council) which is being "short-sighted", if not blind, by failing to take effective action to bolster those ordinary members who may feel uneasy at seeing what should be primarily a sporting organisation being hijacked for nefarious political ends by partisan political/paramilitary figures.
Unless, of course, the leadership of the GAA does not actually object to events such as those at Galbally (or a previous similar event at Kevin Lynch's new pitch laying ceremony, when Nicky Brennan happily shared a platform with eg Martin McGuinness, whilst another "colour party" paraded along the pitch in front of him).
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
I also feel that most Unionists don't understand why so many Nationalists/Republicans feel the need to commemorate these men and this period in our recent history. I would love to know if anyone has ever actually tried to explain to the wider Unionist community why we feel these events are so important.
I dare say you are right that Unionists don't fully understand Republican attitudes towards eg the Hunger Strikes.
Indeed I would go further by agreeing that it would benefit us greatly to understand more.
But do you honestly believe that a carefully orchestrated display of pure propaganda, such as that mounted by SF etc at Galbally, is ever going to be taken seriously for its objectivity and "educational" value, by any but the most gullible of Unionists? Get real! ::)
Galbally was nothing to do with SF's "mission to explain" the Hunger Strikes etc to a Unionist audience, and everything to do with re-asserting their own Republican credentials to its (Ourselves Alone) own constituency, in the face of a potential leeching of support to the Dissidents. That is, SF can no longer be seen to be brandishing real weapons wearing its IRA beret or balaclava, so they march up and down with plastic weapons and term the "volunteers" in the berets and balaclavas "Historical re-enactors"... ::)
And the fact that they can drag the GAA into their politicking is merely "two for the price of one", since everyone knows that the GAA's "constituency" is a purely* Nationalist one, too.
* - At least since Darren Graham was (ahem) "disappeared"... ::)
"GET REAL"??
Did I suggest that the events of Galbally were supposed to be of educational value to Unionists?....or did you just imagine that part?
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 03:24:41 PM
It seems to me all Unioniost just write off the Hunger Strikers as terrorists whereas a lot of very anti-IRA nationalists have sympathy for them and what they did.
No doubt.
But As Gail Walker pointed out:
"Good relations cut both ways. It isn't just up to unionists to be nice to nationalists. It works the other way round too"On which point, do Nationalists ever consider the feelings of Unionists towards the Hunger Strikers? After all, those prisoners weren't in Long Kesh for dodging their TV Licence; nor were any of us taken in by the fact that for the sake of appearances, the IRA and INLA were careful to select prisoners who were not in for murder.
Equally, we are all too aware eg that Bobby Sand's place as "O.C." was taken over by Brendan 'Bik' McFarlane, a sectarian mass murderer of Bayardo Bar notoriety:
"In 1976 McFarlane was sentenced to life imprisonment in connection with a gun and bomb attack on the Bayardo Bar on Aberdeen street in the area of Belfast's Protestant Shankill Road that killed five people - two male civilians, two female civilians and a loyalist paramilitary. In a 1995 House of Lords debate Gerry Fitt, formerly nationalist MP for West Belfast, alleged that McFarlane had machine-gunned three female pedestrians who were passing by the Bayardo as it was blown up. The bar was attacked because it was allegedly frequented by member of the loyalist Ulster Volunteer Force, however, only one of the five people who were killed had links to loyalist paramilitaries. The IRA initially denied it had carried out the attack"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_McFarlane
Therefore, when a (so-called) "Historical Re-Enactment" such as that at Galbally goes beyond a simple portrayal of what it was like for the Hunger Strikers in their cells* etc, and out "onto the streets" to portray Gunmen in Balaclavas etc, it is murderers like Brendan McFarlane whom Unionists think of, just as much as "martyrs" [
sic] like Bobby Sands - you can't have it both ways.
* - On a point of accuracy, it is worth noting that the Hunger Strikers all died in the (scupulously clean) Hospital Wing at Long Kesh, not in excreta-smeared cells, as the "re-enactment" at Galbally attempted to portray.
Quote from: tyrone86 on August 25, 2009, 03:26:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 02:42:11 PM
Just don't try and blame us for believing the GAA's claim to be "open to all" to be a crock of shit. Or for declining to get involved with such an organisation. Or for feeling aggrieved that taxpayers' money which ought by law to be allocated to sporting groups which are non-partisan, is instead going to clubs such as Galbally Pearses GAC, which prove unwilling and/or unwilling to live up to the spirit of such law, if not the letter:
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/qanda/2007mandate/writtenans/2008/090213.htm
Galbally Pearses GFC - Construction of a natural turf training pitch - £200,565
Here we go, the crux of the matter. Begrudgery at its finest. Don't the club members of Galbally pay taxes as well? The plain and simple fact is that because a club/community like Galbally can get its shit together and do their planning, satisfy funders that the money will be spent were it is supposed to be spent and provide top quality facilities for a rural area, it's the way of the world people will try to knock their achievement. Lets be perfectly fair about this, every time Unionists representatives are "outraged" about something that happens within the GAA the funding issue is always dragged up. Where I'm standing, much of this faux outrage is blatantly attempting to take this funding away because of the inability of Unionist community groups to get their own houses in order.
I do not begrudge any sports club, including GAC's, from receiving public funding. However, it is a clear legal requirement that such funding should only go to clubs and organisations which are open to all sections of the community, without fear or favour.
As such, I am happy to accept that the majority of GAC's in NI comply with such a requirement (at least within the practicalities of the situation on the ground etc).
However, there are a number of clubs, of which Galbally Pearses GAC is one, whose involvement in events such as these paramilitary hunger strike commemorations are clearly incompatible with the law. Therefore, I feel strongly that these should be considered to be excluding themselves from any public funding whilst they permit such activity to be carried out on their premises.
And I would say exactly the same if it were eg a soccer club hosting a paramilitary parade by the UDA and UVF etc.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 25, 2009, 04:26:38 PM
Evil Genius I would appreciate your comments on the rival loyalist paramilitary fallout at the post Irish Cup Final dinner hosted by the winning club in Belfast a while back? How on earth did these paramilitaries get an official invite?
You are batting them away rightly EG
What about the above question??
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 03:24:41 PM
It seems to me all Unioniost just write off the Hunger Strikers as terrorists whereas a lot of very anti-IRA nationalists have sympathy for them and what they did.
No doubt.
But As Gail Walker pointed out: "Good relations cut both ways. It isn't just up to unionists to be nice to nationalists. It works the other way round too"
insofar as her pointless piece goes, lets see the long awaited unionist/loyalist action towards 'being nice' - lets see the actions getting rid of oo marches, sectarianism in ni soccer , psni intransigence and inequality etc
then we will have something 'equal'
so far there has been 'no moves' by unionists to eradicate this other than name changes and 'empty pr campaigns' stating that there are changes afoot...but in reality none forthcoming.
why should nationalists go out on a limb, after all its the unionists place to lead now by apology and actions after the apartheid regime by unionist/loyalists.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 05:25:47 PM
Quote from: tyrone86 on August 25, 2009, 03:26:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 02:42:11 PM
Just don't try and blame us for believing the GAA's claim to be "open to all" to be a crock of shit. Or for declining to get involved with such an organisation. Or for feeling aggrieved that taxpayers' money which ought by law to be allocated to sporting groups which are non-partisan, is instead going to clubs such as Galbally Pearses GAC, which prove unwilling and/or unwilling to live up to the spirit of such law, if not the letter:
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/qanda/2007mandate/writtenans/2008/090213.htm
Galbally Pearses GFC - Construction of a natural turf training pitch - £200,565
Here we go, the crux of the matter. Begrudgery at its finest. Don't the club members of Galbally pay taxes as well? The plain and simple fact is that because a club/community like Galbally can get its shit together and do their planning, satisfy funders that the money will be spent were it is supposed to be spent and provide top quality facilities for a rural area, it's the way of the world people will try to knock their achievement. Lets be perfectly fair about this, every time Unionists representatives are "outraged" about something that happens within the GAA the funding issue is always dragged up. Where I'm standing, much of this faux outrage is blatantly attempting to take this funding away because of the inability of Unionist community groups to get their own houses in order.
I do not begrudge any sports club, including GAC's, from receiving public funding. However, it is a clear legal requirement that such funding should only go to clubs and organisations which are open to all sections of the community, without fear or favour.
As such, I am happy to accept that the majority of GAC's in NI comply with such a requirement (at least within the practicalities of the situation on the ground etc).
However, there are a number of clubs, of which Galbally Pearses GAC is one, whose involvement in events such as these paramilitary hunger strike commemorations are clearly incompatible with the law. Therefore, I feel strongly that these should be considered to be excluding themselves from any public funding whilst they permit such activity to be carried out on their premises.
And I would say exactly the same if it were eg a soccer club hosting a paramilitary parade by the UDA and UVF etc.
people like yourself TAKe offence and FEEL excluded
as pointed out repeatedly, the GAA did not do anything untoward or wrong.
it you and the likes of you that will want to take offence to pretend that there is glass wall.
as I said, the numerous protestants that play hurling and football throughout the six counties dont think the same way as you thankfully.
keep trying to dress this up as the GAA wrongdoing, it isnt.
concentrate on yourown sectarian ni soccer team and association if you want to channel your energies into something useful !
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 04:40:06 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 04:21:31 PM
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
I see no issue whatsoever with a Hunger Strike commemoration, in fact it's something that should be remembered, however the fact that it was held in a GAA ground is regrettable and very short sighted indeed by the Sinn Fein leadership.
On the contrary, imo the SF leadership is being rather far-sighted (or at least "cute"), in pursuing a strategy of entryism into the GAA in NI.
It is the GAA (Central Council) which is being "short-sighted", if not blind, by failing to take effective action to bolster those ordinary members who may feel uneasy at seeing what should be primarily a sporting organisation being hijacked for nefarious political ends by partisan political/paramilitary figures.
Unless, of course, the leadership of the GAA does not actually object to events such as those at Galbally (or a previous similar event at Kevin Lynch's new pitch laying ceremony, when Nicky Brennan happily shared a platform with eg Martin McGuinness, whilst another "colour party" paraded along the pitch in front of him).
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
I also feel that most Unionists don't understand why so many Nationalists/Republicans feel the need to commemorate these men and this period in our recent history. I would love to know if anyone has ever actually tried to explain to the wider Unionist community why we feel these events are so important.
I dare say you are right that Unionists don't fully understand Republican attitudes towards eg the Hunger Strikes.
Indeed I would go further by agreeing that it would benefit us greatly to understand more.
But do you honestly believe that a carefully orchestrated display of pure propaganda, such as that mounted by SF etc at Galbally, is ever going to be taken seriously for its objectivity and "educational" value, by any but the most gullible of Unionists? Get real! ::)
Galbally was nothing to do with SF's "mission to explain" the Hunger Strikes etc to a Unionist audience, and everything to do with re-asserting their own Republican credentials to its (Ourselves Alone) own constituency, in the face of a potential leeching of support to the Dissidents. That is, SF can no longer be seen to be brandishing real weapons wearing its IRA beret or balaclava, so they march up and down with plastic weapons and term the "volunteers" in the berets and balaclavas "Historical re-enactors"... ::)
And the fact that they can drag the GAA into their politicking is merely "two for the price of one", since everyone knows that the GAA's "constituency" is a purely* Nationalist one, too.
* - At least since Darren Graham was (ahem) "disappeared"... ::)
"GET REAL"??
Did I suggest that the events of Galbally were supposed to be of educational value to Unionists?....or did you just imagine that part?
Well - any chance of an answer............you Evil Genius you.
in our estate we had a man kicked to death in front of his wife and another nearly so. if you think i'm going to listen to you spouting shite and let it go unchallenged you are very much mistaken. you may be ashamed of what you are pal but i'm not. you sound like an alliance candidate who has never lived in ireland. this is a GAA discussion board so i fail to see the point you were making. it was certainly off topic at the very least. no one said sectarianism was a one way street but my point was in relation to northern irish catholics having a gaelic/irish/republican viewpoint that is dangerous to your own safety. when the IRA walk into the fountain with 100 people(like the UDA did here) then i will agree with the arguement you were trying to make.
And when you've finished with the therapy, try an anger management course. :)
Quote from: hardstation on August 24, 2009, 11:18:14 PM
Myles, how did you find this board? What attracted you to it?
Genuine questions.
I go to Ravenhill to watch Ulster on a regular basis, so I started posting on the supporters' discussion board on the Ulster Rugby site. I followed up a few references to other discussion boards - Munster rugby, OWC - and started posting on those. On OWC I came across quite a few references to this board (mostly unflattering, it has to be said) so I had a look and here I is. On all of the boards, I tend to post more on the current affairs / non sporting sections, as this is what I find interesting.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 03:24:41 PM
It seems to me all Unioniost just write off the Hunger Strikers as terrorists whereas a lot of very anti-IRA nationalists have sympathy for them and what they did.
No doubt.
But As Gail Walker pointed out: "Good relations cut both ways. It isn't just up to unionists to be nice to nationalists. It works the other way round too"
On which point, do Nationalists ever consider the feelings of Unionists towards the Hunger Strikers? After all, those prisoners weren't in Long Kesh for dodging their TV Licence; nor were any of us taken in by the fact that for the sake of appearances, the IRA and INLA were careful to select prisoners who were not in for murder.
Equally, we are all too aware eg that Bobby Sand's place as "O.C." was taken over by Brendan 'Bik' McFarlane, a sectarian mass murderer of Bayardo Bar notoriety:
"In 1976 McFarlane was sentenced to life imprisonment in connection with a gun and bomb attack on the Bayardo Bar on Aberdeen street in the area of Belfast's Protestant Shankill Road that killed five people - two male civilians, two female civilians and a loyalist paramilitary. In a 1995 House of Lords debate Gerry Fitt, formerly nationalist MP for West Belfast, alleged that McFarlane had machine-gunned three female pedestrians who were passing by the Bayardo as it was blown up. The bar was attacked because it was allegedly frequented by member of the loyalist Ulster Volunteer Force, however, only one of the five people who were killed had links to loyalist paramilitaries. The IRA initially denied it had carried out the attack"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_McFarlane
EG - I'll add the bit that you must have missed by accident that in the same paragraph on McFarlane that you included. It goes as follows:
QuoteThe IRA killed 91 Protestant civilians in similar attacks in 1974-76, in reprisal for loyalist attacks on Catholics, which killed 250 civilians in the same period
That crucial last piece of information gives a clue to why McFarlane might have committed such an act. The Catholic/Nationalist community were being picked off at random by loyalist paramilitaries, fuelled up on the rhetoric of Paisley and his ilk (good, law abiding Christians). The police, the army, the state were doing nothing. They were second class citizens at best. I've no time for the provos or SF and never had but if I'd lived there at that time in that situation I ask myself - what would I have done? Good and all as I think I am I cannot say for sure what I'd have done and I doubt very many honest people can either.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 25, 2009, 03:40:19 PM
The people with, if not loyalist paramilitaries themselves, then with very strong links, currently serving as Directors at Irish League football clubs. FFS all hell broke loose not so long ago at a post Irish Cup Final Official Club dinner when rival loyalists fell out, that shows how closely the links are.
"Links" my hole!
What "links" are there between IL clubs and paramilitaries? When have paramilitaries been known to use IL premises for paramilitary-style, or even political, purposes? When has a soccer club/stadium/competition etc in NI ever been named after a convicted "Loyalist" [
sic] paramilitary, as has happened any number of times for Republican paramilitaries in GAA?
If you are claiming that some former (or even present) members of paramilitary organisations in NI are also known to be keen, even active fans of certain soccer clubs, then that is hardly surprising - Martin McGuinness/Derry City FC springs to mind, for one.
May we assume that no-one involved in the running of a GAC has ever also been "associated with" any Republican paramilitary organisation?
The fact is, events such as those at Galbally take such coincidences to a whole new level entirely, i.e from it just so happening that members of GAC's or soccer clubs may also be high profile individuals in their other life, to the club
actively and publicly identifying itself with an overtly political/paramilitary event, without either the club officials or County or Central authorities, seeming to be in the least bit concerned.
As for people getting drunk and fighting over politics at a Dinner - I suppose that is the first and only time such a thing ever happened in NI ::)
Quote from: T Fearon on August 25, 2009, 03:40:19 PM
But what Evil Genius and Miss Walker fail to understand is the impossibility (that is if they value their lives, limbs property etc) of a few GAA club men saying no to paramilitary linked organisations if they come calling as it were at Club grounds.
Even if "a few club men" at Galbally Pearses GAC were of a mind to object (something which I suspect may be unlikely?), such matter are not just down to them. For both the County Board and Central Council have a role to play in supporting their club members, as well as maintaining the sport's public image.
From what we have seen so far, I doubt very much whether either will mete out even the lightest slap on the wrist to disassociate themselves, their organisation or their sport, from what went on at Galbally (at least if precedent is anything to go by).
Which prompts the question, are they completely unable to do so, or merely unwilling? ::)
Quote from: T Fearon on August 25, 2009, 03:40:19 PM
I mean the PSNI ran a mile in the opposite direction last weekend when they chanced upon a real IRA checkpoint in Meigh. Now if the Police are afraid to tackle overt armed paramilitary displays, what chance has the ordinary GAA Club members?
Are you saying that the weapons on display in the "re-enactment" at Galbally were real, like the four sub-machine guns and the rocket launcher being brandished at Meigh, when the two community policemen happened to chance upon them the other evening?
If nothing else, it remains open to the Central council of the GAA to issue a Statement condemning the use of GAA premises for the staging of overtly political/paramilitary displays, such as we saw at Galbally, in the same way as Sir Hugh Orde unequivocally condemned the activities of the Real IRA in Meigh, during today's Press Conference.
But I won't be holding my breath to hear something similar about Galbally from Croke Park, if you don't mind... ::)
Quote from: T Fearon on August 25, 2009, 03:40:19 PM
I have spoken in the past about the hypocrisy here. The people with, if not loyalist paramilitaries themselves, then with very strong links, currently serving as Directors at Irish League football clubs. FFS all hell broke loose not so long ago at a post Irish Cup Final Official Club dinner when rival loyalists fell out, that shows how closely the links are.
But what Evil Genius and Miss Walker fail to understand is the impossibility (that is if they value their lives, limbs property etc) of a few GAA club men saying no to paramilitary linked organisations if they come calling as it were at Club grounds.
I mean the PSNI ran a mile in the opposite direction last weekend when they chanced upon a real IRA checkpoint in Meigh. Now if the Police are afraid to tackle overt armed paramilitary displays, what chance has the ordinary GAA Club members?
So Tony agrees as well. No one in such a GAA club is going to stand up to oppose an event like this happening in their club, for fear of their own safety. I have to assume you are referring to SF as the 'paramilitary linked' organisation in this case(?)
As such, it's with total disregard for the Association and its members that SF and/or their committees go near GAA grounds for such events and place GAA clubs and members in this situation.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 25, 2009, 04:26:38 PM
Evil Genius I would appreciate your comments on the rival loyalist paramilitary fallout at the post Irish Cup Final dinner hosted by the winning club in Belfast a while back? How on earth did these paramilitaries get an official invite?
I don't know what you are talking about, nor following past precedent, am I prepared to accept your version of alleged events at face value, especially when you are being totally vague.
So how about you present me with an objective, substantiated account of what you allege to have occurred,
then I'll compose a reply.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 25, 2009, 03:38:57 PM
the GAA could come out and ban events being held in their grounds by third party groups - but this would and could lead to the likes fo croke park being off limits to soccer/rugby/u2 when they all come cap in hand looking for the use of the stadium again...
Maybe they could just ban political events then?
Quote from: full back on August 25, 2009, 05:29:45 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 25, 2009, 04:26:38 PM
Evil Genius I would appreciate your comments on the rival loyalist paramilitary fallout at the post Irish Cup Final dinner hosted by the winning club in Belfast a while back? How on earth did these paramilitaries get an official invite?
You are batting them away rightly EG
What about the above question??
See my reply #446
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 25, 2009, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 03:24:41 PM
It seems to me all Unioniost just write off the Hunger Strikers as terrorists whereas a lot of very anti-IRA nationalists have sympathy for them and what they did.
No doubt.
But As Gail Walker pointed out: "Good relations cut both ways. It isn't just up to unionists to be nice to nationalists. It works the other way round too"
insofar as her pointless piece goes, lets see the long awaited unionist/loyalist action towards 'being nice' - lets see the actions getting rid of oo marches, sectarianism in ni soccer , psni intransigence and inequality etc
then we will have something 'equal'
so far there has been 'no moves' by unionists to eradicate this other than name changes and 'empty pr campaigns' stating that there are changes afoot...but in reality none forthcoming.
why should nationalists go out on a limb, after all its the unionists place to lead now by apology and actions after the apartheid regime by unionist/loyalists.
Why should the GAA wait on others to jump first? Can we not be the 'bigger man'? Can we not be progressive for the sake of our own Association, rather than looking to see what 'the other side' are doing?
Let the OO or the IFA live in the past if that's what they want. Why would we wait for them to get their house in order before we consider our own affairs?
It doesn't have to be about making changes to satisfy McCausland and his type. We shouldn't be waiting on the OO or the IFA to make any moves. GAA people loathe the ignorant comparisons with the OO (or the IFA), so why wait to mirror their progress (or lack thereof)?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 25, 2009, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 03:24:41 PM
It seems to me all Unioniost just write off the Hunger Strikers as terrorists whereas a lot of very anti-IRA nationalists have sympathy for them and what they did.
No doubt.
But As Gail Walker pointed out: "Good relations cut both ways. It isn't just up to unionists to be nice to nationalists. It works the other way round too"
insofar as her pointless piece goes, lets see the long awaited unionist/loyalist action towards 'being nice' - lets see the actions getting rid of oo marches, sectarianism in ni soccer , psni intransigence and inequality etc
then we will have something 'equal'
so far there has been 'no moves' by unionists to eradicate this other than name changes and 'empty pr campaigns' stating that there are changes afoot...but in reality none forthcoming.
why should nationalists go out on a limb, after all its the unionists place to lead now by apology and actions after the apartheid regime by unionist/loyalists.
You have your views on politics, I have mine. But whether we agree or disagree, the whole point of this thread is whether GAC's should be getting involved in politics, in the manner seen at Galbally Pearses GAC.
It is my firm opinion that it is incumbent upon all sports, including eg soccer, to avoid involving themselves in partisan politics wherever possible. As such, the overwhelming majority of sports do so successfully, even in the most trying of circumstances.
Imo, the GAA stands out as an exception* however, as evidenced by events such as Galbally. Shame on them. >:(
* - Uniquely so?
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 04:40:06 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 04:21:31 PM
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
I see no issue whatsoever with a Hunger Strike commemoration, in fact it's something that should be remembered, however the fact that it was held in a GAA ground is regrettable and very short sighted indeed by the Sinn Fein leadership.
On the contrary, imo the SF leadership is being rather far-sighted (or at least "cute"), in pursuing a strategy of entryism into the GAA in NI.
It is the GAA (Central Council) which is being "short-sighted", if not blind, by failing to take effective action to bolster those ordinary members who may feel uneasy at seeing what should be primarily a sporting organisation being hijacked for nefarious political ends by partisan political/paramilitary figures.
Unless, of course, the leadership of the GAA does not actually object to events such as those at Galbally (or a previous similar event at Kevin Lynch's new pitch laying ceremony, when Nicky Brennan happily shared a platform with eg Martin McGuinness, whilst another "colour party" paraded along the pitch in front of him).
Quote from: redhugh on August 25, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
I also feel that most Unionists don't understand why so many Nationalists/Republicans feel the need to commemorate these men and this period in our recent history. I would love to know if anyone has ever actually tried to explain to the wider Unionist community why we feel these events are so important.
I dare say you are right that Unionists don't fully understand Republican attitudes towards eg the Hunger Strikes.
Indeed I would go further by agreeing that it would benefit us greatly to understand more.
But do you honestly believe that a carefully orchestrated display of pure propaganda, such as that mounted by SF etc at Galbally, is ever going to be taken seriously for its objectivity and "educational" value, by any but the most gullible of Unionists? Get real! ::)
Galbally was nothing to do with SF's "mission to explain" the Hunger Strikes etc to a Unionist audience, and everything to do with re-asserting their own Republican credentials to its (Ourselves Alone) own constituency, in the face of a potential leeching of support to the Dissidents. That is, SF can no longer be seen to be brandishing real weapons wearing its IRA beret or balaclava, so they march up and down with plastic weapons and term the "volunteers" in the berets and balaclavas "Historical re-enactors"... ::)
And the fact that they can drag the GAA into their politicking is merely "two for the price of one", since everyone knows that the GAA's "constituency" is a purely* Nationalist one, too.
* - At least since Darren Graham was (ahem) "disappeared"... ::)
"GET REAL"??
Did I suggest that the events of Galbally were supposed to be of educational value to Unionists?....or did you just imagine that part?
Well - any chance of an answer............you Evil Genius you.
The organisers of Galbally have attempted to deny that the commemorations were "political", on the basis that they were "historical" and "cultural" etc.
As such, they justify their (so-called) "historical re-enactments" as being educational for those attending, especially those too young to remember the actual events.
Are we to take it that this educational function was only meant for Republicans/Nationalists i.e. not for the benefit of any Unionist who may have been passing?
After all, if we are to believe the likes of Lynchbhoy, there is no shortage of people from the Unionist community in NI who are also keen Gaelic footballers and hurlers etc.
Or is it that there are simply none whatever in Galbally Pearses GAC?
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 05:53:30 PM
EG - I'll add the bit that you must have missed by accident that in the same paragraph on McFarlane that you included. It goes as follows:
QuoteThe IRA killed 91 Protestant civilians in similar attacks in 1974-76, in reprisal for loyalist attacks on Catholics, which killed 250 civilians in the same period
That crucial last piece of information gives a clue to why McFarlane might have committed such an act. The Catholic/Nationalist community were being picked off at random by loyalist paramilitaries, fuelled up on the rhetoric of Paisley and his ilk (good, law abiding Christians). The police, the army, the state were doing nothing. They were second class citizens at best. I've no time for the provos or SF and never had but if I'd lived there at that time in that situation I ask myself - what would I have done? Good and all as I think I am I cannot say for sure what I'd have done and I doubt very many honest people can either.
Ah, the classic "Themmuns made me do it" defence... :o
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 06:24:29 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 05:53:30 PM
EG - I'll add the bit that you must have missed by accident that in the same paragraph on McFarlane that you included. It goes as follows:
QuoteThe IRA killed 91 Protestant civilians in similar attacks in 1974-76, in reprisal for loyalist attacks on Catholics, which killed 250 civilians in the same period
That crucial last piece of information gives a clue to why McFarlane might have committed such an act. The Catholic/Nationalist community were being picked off at random by loyalist paramilitaries, fuelled up on the rhetoric of Paisley and his ilk (good, law abiding Christians). The police, the army, the state were doing nothing. They were second class citizens at best. I've no time for the provos or SF and never had but if I'd lived there at that time in that situation I ask myself - what would I have done? Good and all as I think I am I cannot say for sure what I'd have done and I doubt very many honest people can either.
Ah, the classic "Themmuns made me do it" defence... :o
I'm not defending anyone. You asked me earlier had anyone explained to Unionists why many moderate nationalists do not write the hunger strikers off as terrorists and I've attempted to do so. Your throwaway reply to me says a lot about your willingness to listen to uncomfortable truths.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 25, 2009, 06:11:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 25, 2009, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 03:24:41 PM
It seems to me all Unioniost just write off the Hunger Strikers as terrorists whereas a lot of very anti-IRA nationalists have sympathy for them and what they did.
No doubt.
But As Gail Walker pointed out: "Good relations cut both ways. It isn't just up to unionists to be nice to nationalists. It works the other way round too"
insofar as her pointless piece goes, lets see the long awaited unionist/loyalist action towards 'being nice' - lets see the actions getting rid of oo marches, sectarianism in ni soccer , psni intransigence and inequality etc
then we will have something 'equal'
so far there has been 'no moves' by unionists to eradicate this other than name changes and 'empty pr campaigns' stating that there are changes afoot...but in reality none forthcoming.
why should nationalists go out on a limb, after all its the unionists place to lead now by apology and actions after the apartheid regime by unionist/loyalists.
Why should the GAA wait on others to jump first? Can we not be the 'bigger man'? Can we not be progressive for the sake of our own Association, rather than looking to see what 'the other side' are doing?
Let the OO or the IFA live in the past if that's what they want. Why would we wait for them to get their house in order before we consider our own affairs?
It doesn't have to be about making changes to satisfy McCausland and his type. We shouldn't be waiting on the OO or the IFA to make any moves. GAA people loathe the ignorant comparisons with the OO (or the IFA), so why wait to mirror their progress (or lack thereof)?
Maguire, whilst I sympathise and admire generally with your stance, as a soccer fan I object to your equating the OO and the IFA.
The OO is an unrepentantly sectarian organisation, with a clear political agenda. And whilst I know from experience that the average member is invariably decent enough etc, I have no time for his organisation.
Whereas the IFA is a sporting body, with no religious or political agenda whatever. Of course, this being NI, there are members and officials whose politics will not find favour in the wider community in NI. Worse, the actions of some of those members and officials may be informed by their politics etc, in the past, at least.
Nonetheless, I can unequivocally state that not only does the IFA now have no ulterior official (or unofficial) agenda whatever, but it is largely effective in deterring its members etc from furthering any personal agenda via soccer in NI, which they may have.
Indeed, not only have they been notably successful in deterring them, but they are increasingly publicly and objectively recognised for their success in rejecting and countering such unwelcome behaviour. Of course, it is still a work in progress, indeed one which may never be totally completed (at least until genuine "normality" comes to NI).
Nonetheless, there is nothing in the activities of the IFA - not even in Fearon's widest imagination - to compare with the sort of public display we regularly witness occurring on GAA premises, such as that seen at Galbally.
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 06:34:14 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 06:24:29 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 05:53:30 PM
EG - I'll add the bit that you must have missed by accident that in the same paragraph on McFarlane that you included. It goes as follows:
QuoteThe IRA killed 91 Protestant civilians in similar attacks in 1974-76, in reprisal for loyalist attacks on Catholics, which killed 250 civilians in the same period
That crucial last piece of information gives a clue to why McFarlane might have committed such an act. The Catholic/Nationalist community were being picked off at random by loyalist paramilitaries, fuelled up on the rhetoric of Paisley and his ilk (good, law abiding Christians). The police, the army, the state were doing nothing. They were second class citizens at best. I've no time for the provos or SF and never had but if I'd lived there at that time in that situation I ask myself - what would I have done? Good and all as I think I am I cannot say for sure what I'd have done and I doubt very many honest people can either.
Ah, the classic "Themmuns made me do it" defence... :o
I'm not defending anyone. You asked me earlier had anyone explained to Unionists why many moderate nationalists do not write the hunger strikers off as terrorists and I've attempted to do so. Your throwaway reply to me says a lot about your willingness to listen to uncomfortable truths.
It was not a "throwaway" reply, rather it was
shorthand.
But if you really do need it spelling out, I am well aware that self-styled "Loyalists" committed many foul atrocities during The Troubles, including naked sectarian assassinations etc. I have never denied, defended or condoned that in any way.
Nor would I deny that many in the Republican community were driven to take up arms as a response to such atrocities. But that does not make such a response right or justified imo, if only because many
more people in that community abjured such a response.
And these latter are the people, invariably overlooked and forgotten, whom I admire most and who I believe deserve all our support and appreciation.
Which, taking us back on-topic to Galbally, is where I would see the Hunger Strike commemorations. Of course those activists who were involved will want to commemorate and celebrate those whom they revere as heroes. But not everyone in the community from which the activists come would regard the Hunger Strikers and their colleagues (eg McFarlane) similarly.
Yet as Fearon has so graphically testified, were any such dissenters to voice their objections, they could expect severe, even brutal repercussions. Which is where it should be incumbent (imo) on the County Board and Central Council to stand up and make it clear that partisan political/paramilitary figures are not welcome when they seek to hijack the GAA for their own ends.
Unless, of course, those political/paramilitary figures are actually less unwelcome than the GAA might like to admit... ::)
Bigots will always find a reason to criticise the GAA
If prominent Unionist politicians can follow their respective counties throughout the championship, the bigots should take example from them and give it a go, or not.
Incidentally, if it was a SF organised event as it seems to have been then it shouldn't have been held on GAA property. That also applies to other political parties who would choose to use the GAA in this way, though I can't think of any offhand.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 25, 2009, 07:13:36 PM
Bigots will always find a reason to criticise the GAA
True, but that does not exonerate the GAA from valid criticism from non-bigoted quarters.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 25, 2009, 07:13:36 PM
If prominent Unionist politicians can follow their respective counties throughout the championship, the bigots should take example from them and give it a go, or not.
But if they (bigots) took their cue from other, more reasonable, politicians etc, then they wouldn't be bigots in the first place.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 25, 2009, 07:13:36 PM
Incidentally, if it was a SF organised event as it seems to have been then it shouldn't have been held on GAA property.
Indeed.
Still, I'm glad none of the various soccer or other sporting clubs I've been involved with down the years have never allowed themselves to be caught up in anything remotely like the events at Galbally, otherwise I'd feel compelled not to have anything to do with them ever again.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 06:00:28 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 25, 2009, 03:40:19 PM
The people with, if not loyalist paramilitaries themselves, then with very strong links, currently serving as Directors at Irish League football clubs. FFS all hell broke loose not so long ago at a post Irish Cup Final Official Club dinner when rival loyalists fell out, that shows how closely the links are.
"Links" my hole!
What "links" are there between IL clubs and paramilitaries? When have paramilitaries been known to use IL premises for paramilitary-style, or even political, purposes? When has a soccer club/stadium/competition etc in NI ever been named after a convicted "Loyalist" [sic] paramilitary, as has happened any number of times for Republican paramilitaries in GAA?
If you are claiming that some former (or even present) members of paramilitary organisations in NI are also known to be keen, even active fans of certain soccer clubs, then that is hardly surprising - Martin McGuinness/Derry City FC springs to mind, for one.
May we assume that no-one involved in the running of a GAC has ever also been "associated with" any Republican paramilitary organisation?
The fact is, events such as those at Galbally take such coincidences to a whole new level entirely, i.e from it just so happening that members of GAC's or soccer clubs may also be high profile individuals in their other life, to the club actively and publicly identifying itself with an overtly political/paramilitary event, without either the club officials or County or Central authorities, seeming to be in the least bit concerned.
As for people getting drunk and fighting over politics at a Dinner - I suppose that is the first and only time such a thing ever happened in NI ::)
Quote from: T Fearon on August 25, 2009, 03:40:19 PM
But what Evil Genius and Miss Walker fail to understand is the impossibility (that is if they value their lives, limbs property etc) of a few GAA club men saying no to paramilitary linked organisations if they come calling as it were at Club grounds.
Even if "a few club men" at Galbally Pearses GAC were of a mind to object (something which I suspect may be unlikely?), such matter are not just down to them. For both the County Board and Central Council have a role to play in supporting their club members, as well as maintaining the sport's public image.
From what we have seen so far, I doubt very much whether either will mete out even the lightest slap on the wrist to disassociate themselves, their organisation or their sport, from what went on at Galbally (at least if precedent is anything to go by).
Which prompts the question, are they completely unable to do so, or merely unwilling? ::)
Quote from: T Fearon on August 25, 2009, 03:40:19 PM
I mean the PSNI ran a mile in the opposite direction last weekend when they chanced upon a real IRA checkpoint in Meigh. Now if the Police are afraid to tackle overt armed paramilitary displays, what chance has the ordinary GAA Club members?
Are you saying that the weapons on display in the "re-enactment" at Galbally were real, like the four sub-machine guns and the rocket launcher being brandished at Meigh, when the two community policemen happened to chance upon them the other evening?
If nothing else, it remains open to the Central council of the GAA to issue a Statement condemning the use of GAA premises for the staging of overtly political/paramilitary displays, such as we saw at Galbally, in the same way as Sir Hugh Orde unequivocally condemned the activities of the Real IRA in Meigh, during today's Press Conference.
But I won't be holding my breath to hear something similar about Galbally from Croke Park, if you don't mind... ::)
EG,
Portadown and the Jameson family are very closely linked. Its bar has been a been a loyalist paramilitary drinking den for a long time.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 06:42:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 25, 2009, 06:11:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 25, 2009, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 03:24:41 PM
It seems to me all Unioniost just write off the Hunger Strikers as terrorists whereas a lot of very anti-IRA nationalists have sympathy for them and what they did.
No doubt.
But As Gail Walker pointed out: "Good relations cut both ways. It isn't just up to unionists to be nice to nationalists. It works the other way round too"
insofar as her pointless piece goes, lets see the long awaited unionist/loyalist action towards 'being nice' - lets see the actions getting rid of oo marches, sectarianism in ni soccer , psni intransigence and inequality etc
then we will have something 'equal'
so far there has been 'no moves' by unionists to eradicate this other than name changes and 'empty pr campaigns' stating that there are changes afoot...but in reality none forthcoming.
why should nationalists go out on a limb, after all its the unionists place to lead now by apology and actions after the apartheid regime by unionist/loyalists.
Why should the GAA wait on others to jump first? Can we not be the 'bigger man'? Can we not be progressive for the sake of our own Association, rather than looking to see what 'the other side' are doing?
Let the OO or the IFA live in the past if that's what they want. Why would we wait for them to get their house in order before we consider our own affairs?
It doesn't have to be about making changes to satisfy McCausland and his type. We shouldn't be waiting on the OO or the IFA to make any moves. GAA people loathe the ignorant comparisons with the OO (or the IFA), so why wait to mirror their progress (or lack thereof)?
Maguire, whilst I sympathise and admire generally with your stance, as a soccer fan I object to your equating the OO and the IFA.
The OO is an unrepentantly sectarian organisation, with a clear political agenda. And whilst I know from experience that the average member is invariably decent enough etc, I have no time for his organisation.
Whereas the IFA is a sporting body, with no religious or political agenda whatever. Of course, this being NI, there are members and officials whose politics will not find favour in the wider community in NI. Worse, the actions of some of those members and officials may be informed by their politics etc, in the past, at least.
Nonetheless, I can unequivocally state that not only does the IFA now have no ulterior official (or unofficial) agenda whatever, but it is largely effective in deterring its members etc from furthering any personal agenda via soccer in NI, which they may have.
Indeed, not only have they been notably successful in deterring them, but they are increasingly publicly and objectively recognised for their success in rejecting and countering such unwelcome behaviour. Of course, it is still a work in progress, indeed one which may never be totally completed (at least until genuine "normality" comes to NI).
Nonetheless, there is nothing in the activities of the IFA - not even in Fearon's widest imagination - to compare with the sort of public display we regularly witness occurring on GAA premises, such as that seen at Galbally.
I mentioned the OO and the IFA together in response to a previous poster. And because some people here appear to have double standards in terms of what is acceptable for the GAA and the IFA.
It was also relevant in terms of the wider image of the organisations and how many on here see the GAA as 'ours' and the IFA as 'yours'. Regardless of what the IFA does or doesn't do, or what progress it has made, it still has an image problem with a large number of people, and in that respect, there is a comparison to the GAA.
But my main point was
not to try and make comparisons with what the IFA may or may not be doing. My point is that the GAA should be progressive, as appropriate, for the sake of the Association itself and not to satisfy DUP dinosaurs; nor should we be looking over our shoulder to see if other organisation 'evolve' before we decide to.
Ah FFS, now Gail Walker from the Beal Feirste telegraph is jumping on the "bash the GAA" bandwagon.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gail-walker/gail-walker-how-gaa-scored-an-own-goal-over-sf-demonstration-14467025.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gail-walker/gail-walker-how-gaa-scored-an-own-goal-over-sf-demonstration-14467025.html)
Lots of whataboutery from Ms Walker, and sneering of the hunger strike commemoration. Whats the difference between 1690 battle commemoration and the hunger strike commemoration?
Answer is that we're not allowed to remember the hunger strike, and it must be erased from our memory, whereas 1690 must be commemorated for 3 months every year.
We've already 'had' Gail on the previous page.
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2009, 09:48:08 PM
Whats the difference between 1690 battle commemoration and the hunger strike commemoration?
Very little.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 25, 2009, 10:15:29 PM
We've already 'had' Gail on the previous page.
Whoops. Well, I hope you all washed yourselves clean afterwards.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 25, 2009, 10:18:35 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2009, 09:48:08 PM
Whats the difference between 1690 battle commemoration and the hunger strike commemoration?
Very little.
Well, 1690 celebrates protestant supremacy over catholics.
1981 celebrates the lives of 10 people who wanted to be recognised as political prisoners and not just criminals.
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2009, 10:42:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 25, 2009, 10:18:35 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2009, 09:48:08 PM
Whats the difference between 1690 battle commemoration and the hunger strike commemoration?
Very little.
Well, 1690 celebrates protestant supremacy over catholics.
1981 celebrates the lives of 10 people who wanted to be recognised as political prisoners and not just criminals.
I was referring to the act of commemoration itself, rather than the subject of the commemoration:
The parading up and down the road, in fancy dress, listening to unlistenable marching band music, waving flags, reaching a field to listen to some politician on their soapbox...
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 11:19:47 AM
Unless you are having difficulty with my describing myself as an "Irish Unionist" i.e. an Irishman who believes in the Union of (Northern) Ireland with Great Britain, I'm not sure what is contradictory about that? ???
Eh? I've no difficluty with how you discribe yourself. Are you that insecure?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 25, 2009, 10:48:58 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2009, 10:42:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 25, 2009, 10:18:35 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2009, 09:48:08 PM
Whats the difference between 1690 battle commemoration and the hunger strike commemoration?
Very little.
Well, 1690 celebrates protestant supremacy over catholics.
1981 celebrates the lives of 10 people who wanted to be recognised as political prisoners and not just criminals.
I was referring to the act of commemoration itself, rather than the subject of the commemoration:
The parading up and down the road, in fancy dress, listening to unlistenable marching band music, waving flags, reaching a field to listen to some politician on their soapbox...
Put like that. it sounds like a church fete in some sleepy quaint little village in Devon or Cornwall.... :P
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 06:14:22 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 25, 2009, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2009, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 25, 2009, 03:24:41 PM
It seems to me all Unioniost just write off the Hunger Strikers as terrorists whereas a lot of very anti-IRA nationalists have sympathy for them and what they did.
No doubt.
But As Gail Walker pointed out: "Good relations cut both ways. It isn't just up to unionists to be nice to nationalists. It works the other way round too"
insofar as her pointless piece goes, lets see the long awaited unionist/loyalist action towards 'being nice' - lets see the actions getting rid of oo marches, sectarianism in ni soccer , psni intransigence and inequality etc
then we will have something 'equal'
so far there has been 'no moves' by unionists to eradicate this other than name changes and 'empty pr campaigns' stating that there are changes afoot...but in reality none forthcoming.
why should nationalists go out on a limb, after all its the unionists place to lead now by apology and actions after the apartheid regime by unionist/loyalists.
You have your views on politics, I have mine. But whether we agree or disagree, the whole point of this thread is whether GAC's should be getting involved in politics, in the manner seen at Galbally Pearses GAC.
It is my firm opinion that it is incumbent upon all sports, including eg soccer, to avoid involving themselves in partisan politics wherever possible. As such, the overwhelming majority of sports do so successfully, even in the most trying of circumstances.
Imo, the GAA stands out as an exception* however, as evidenced by events such as Galbally. Shame on them. >:(
* - Uniquely so?
thats just it - galbally club and the GAA did not involve themselves in anything here....no matter how much you try to imply or say they did.
their premises were used. Thats it.
I have made plenty of similar cases/precedents on here that show that bodies that let out or allow third parties to use their premises are not responsible for what goes on at them.
Why is there no public outcry when such events happen at soccer clubs such as tobermore utd.
do unionists (Irish and british :D) go similarly mad when tax payers money is abused when oo and other loyalist/unionist groups march throughout the 'summer'. Are the taxpayers responsible for the riots and violence cause by these marches (eg drumcree) ?
I'd be interested to see if unionists felt as strongly about the use of the roads and the expense to the taxpayer, plus the culpablity of the violence and 'message sent out'/re-enactment of the battle of the boyne (a violent act from times past!) of the taxpayer !
Also the taxpayers hard earned cash also going out in grants to the sectarian soccer bodies.
if people like yourself evil myles whinge about the GAA, there are worse precedents from the unionist/loyalist side of the fence.
Get your own house in order first perhaps !
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 25, 2009, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 25, 2009, 03:38:57 PM
the GAA could come out and ban events being held in their grounds by third party groups - but this would and could lead to the likes fo croke park being off limits to soccer/rugby/u2 when they all come cap in hand looking for the use of the stadium again...
Maybe they could just ban political events then?
yep. That would exclude the likes of ff, fg, labour etc from using GAA premises also.
They use these facilities more than anyone else in the 26 counties.
I've been away for a while and missed the start of this but still want to throw in my twopwnce worth.
Lynchboy, You oversell your argument when you state that political parties in the south use GAA buildings - they do not - that is the whole point!! The GAA has made sure that this does not happen down here because the are only too wellaware of the dangers in allowing it.
As a republican who does not and never has supported the 'armed struggle' - ie terrorism I am ashamed that fellow northern GAA men have allowed this to happen but am also well aware that the more sensible and cautios Galbally members who did not agree with this would have needed foolhardy levels of courage to have publicly opposed it.
Croke Park must now make a stand on behalf of us non Sinn Fein supporting members and make it clear that any club who allow their facilities to be used in this manner in the future will bw suspended.
Please no more of this nonsense about it being a 'community event' - it was a Sinn Fein event full stop. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck!
Are we surprised at Sinn Fein behaviour in revisiting the Casemant Park strategy- hardly - a fascist organisation behaves like a fascist is expected to, even down to wearing the uniforms!
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
You oversell your argument when you state that political parties in the south use GAA buildings - they do not - that is the whole point!! The GAA has made sure that this does not happen down here because the are only too wellaware of the dangers in allowing it.
Rubbish, it does happen and in breach of GAA rules. Google it to see.
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
As a republican who does not and never has supported the 'armed struggle' - ie terrorism
You are entitled to your views but this one irrelevant and objectionable.
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
I am ashamed that fellow northern GAA men have allowed this to happen but am also well aware that the more sensible and cautios Galbally members who did not agree with this would have needed foolhardy levels of courage to have publicly opposed it.
More rubbish. The GAA in the north is as democratic as anywhere else and your insinuation that pressure would be put on anyone objecting is completely without foundation.
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
Croke Park must now make a stand on behalf of us non Sinn Fein supporting members and make it clear that any club who allow their facilities to be used in this manner in the future will bw suspended.
Considering that no rules were breached, under what procedure would you have them suspended?
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
Please no more of this nonsense about it being a 'community event' - it was a Sinn Fein event full stop. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck!
Produce your evidence Donald.
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
Are we surprised at Sinn Fein behaviour in revisiting the Casemant Park strategy- hardly - a fascist organisation behaves like a fascist is expected to, even down to wearing the uniforms!
Enough said. It's quite obvious that you are the one who is allowing your political views to cloud this issue.
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
I've been away for a while and missed the start of this but still want to throw in my twopwnce worth.
Lynchboy, You oversell your argument when you state that political parties in the south use GAA buildings - they do not - that is the whole point!! The GAA has made sure that this does not happen down here because the are only too wellaware of the dangers in allowing it.
As a republican who does not and never has supported the 'armed struggle' - ie terrorism I am ashamed that fellow northern GAA men have allowed this to happen but am also well aware that the more sensible and cautios Galbally members who did not agree with this would have needed foolhardy levels of courage to have publicly opposed it.
Croke Park must now make a stand on behalf of us non Sinn Fein supporting members and make it clear that any club who allow their facilities to be used in this manner in the future will bw suspended.
Please no more of this nonsense about it being a 'community event' - it was a Sinn Fein event full stop. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck!
Are we surprised at Sinn Fein behaviour in revisiting the Casemant Park strategy- hardly - a fascist organisation behaves like a fascist is expected to, even down to wearing the uniforms!
it prob was, but it was most def not a GAA event.
I also know of GAA gounds that are used in county clare and tipp by FF/FG etc - I am sure these are not isolated.
Quote from: Donagh on August 26, 2009, 11:03:53 AM
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
I am ashamed that fellow northern GAA men have allowed this to happen but am also well aware that the more sensible and cautios Galbally members who did not agree with this would have needed foolhardy levels of courage to have publicly opposed it.
More rubbish. The GAA in the north is as democratic as anywhere else and your insinuation that pressure would be put on anyone objecting is completely without foundation.
Many posters on this thread (including some that wouldn't be the most moderate of sorts) have agreed that there would be fear in standing up and opposing something like this. You probably wouldn't see it from your position, but that doesn't mean it isn't the case.
I was jumped on by numerous posters for having the audacity to question the appropriateness of this event - and that's as anonymous poster on an internet message board. Do you really think that any normal club member with objections would stand up and publically oppose an event like this?
And the issue here isn't really about whether or not the GAA is democratic - it's about the pressure placed on the GAA by third parties.
Quote from: Donagh on August 26, 2009, 11:03:53 AM
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
Croke Park must now make a stand on behalf of us non Sinn Fein supporting members and make it clear that any club who allow their facilities to be used in this manner in the future will bw suspended.
Considering that no rules were breached, under what procedure would you have them suspended?
It's your
opinion that no rules were breached. Many people consider this to have been a party political event - i.e. a Sinn Fein event. As such, would it not be a breach of the rules?
For those who don't think Rule 7a has been breached, what about the following:
QuoteCONTROL OF ASSOCIATION PROPERTY
Uses of Property
44(a)
All property including grounds, Club Houses, Halls, Dressing Rooms and Handball Alleys owned or controlled by units of the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.
Therefore, as rule 7 refers to the GAA being 'Non-Party Political/Non-Sectarian' (surely an
objective of the Association), was this use of the grounds not in breach of Rule 44?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
For those who don't think Rule 7a has been breached, what about the following:
QuoteCONTROL OF ASSOCIATION PROPERTY
Uses of Property
44(a)
All property including grounds, Club Houses, Halls, Dressing Rooms and Handball Alleys owned or controlled by units of the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.
Therefore, as rule 7 refers to the GAA being 'Non-Party Political/Non-Sectarian' (surely an objective of the Association), was this use of the grounds not in breach of Rule 44?
scraping the bottom of the barrel now at attempting to say that this was now sectarian and in breach of any GAA rule or law let alone 7 , 44 or anything else you poorly attempt to drag into the equation.
if it was against GAA laws to not allow political parties to use the facilities - then they woul dsurely not be allowed.
you cut off the point of the rules to attempt to prove you rpoint - 'the GAA shall not be party political or sectarian'.
no marks out of 10 for you there.
no rule or law has been broken.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 26, 2009, 06:59:51 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
For those who don't think Rule 7a has been breached, what about the following:
QuoteCONTROL OF ASSOCIATION PROPERTY
Uses of Property
44(a)
All property including grounds, Club Houses, Halls, Dressing Rooms and Handball Alleys owned or controlled by units of the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.
Therefore, as rule 7 refers to the GAA being 'Non-Party Political/Non-Sectarian' (surely an objective of the Association), was this use of the grounds not in breach of Rule 44?
scraping the bottom of the barrel now at attempting to say that this was now sectarian and in breach of any GAA rule or law let alone 7 , 44 or anything else you poorly attempt to drag into the equation.
Scraping the bottom of the barrel? How so? By having a read at the rules governing GAA grounds? Rule 7 is a bit vague, so I checked to see if there was a specific rule on the use of grounds to try and clarify the issue.
My logic is very simple:
1 - Rule 44 states that grounds shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such
other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association.
2 - It's a clear objective of the Association to be non party-political.
3 - The event in Galbally was organised by a political party (you admitted yourself that it "probably was" a SF event), therefore the grounds were used for party-political purposes.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 26, 2009, 06:59:51 PM
if it was against GAA laws to not allow political parties to use the facilities - then they woul dsurely not be allowed.
Yes, you'd think.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 26, 2009, 06:59:51 PM
you cut off the point of the rules to attempt to prove you rpoint - 'the GAA shall not be party political or sectarian'.
Can you explain - i can't understand what you're saying here - what did I cut off?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 26, 2009, 06:59:51 PM
no marks out of 10 for you there.
no rule or law has been broken.
Good job i'm not looking for marks.
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
Please no more of this nonsense about it being a 'community event' - it was a Sinn Fein event full stop. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck!
Produce your evidence Donald.
:D :D :D
Quote from: stew on August 26, 2009, 08:52:08 PM
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
Please no more of this nonsense about it being a 'community event' - it was a Sinn Fein event full stop. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck!
Produce your evidence Donald.
:D :D :D
QuoteCalling for a large mobilisation on Sunday were the three Sinn Féin MPs representing County Tyrone; Martin McGuinness, Michelle Gildernew and Pat Doherty.
In a joint statement the three MPs said:
"We are calling for people not only from County Tyrone but from across Ireland to make an effort to commemorate the sacrifices made and to celebrate the lives of the hunger strikers.
"We appeal to all those who recognise the contribution of the hunger strikers to the cause of Irish freedom to come to Galbally this Sunday. We would especially encourage ex-POWs to attend as a good opportunity to meet up with former comrades and show solidarity with the comrades who are no longer with us.
"We also encourage the republican and indeed the wider community to take part in many of the other events being organised throughout County Tyrone, these include processions, panel discussions, exhibitions and events coinciding with Na Fianna Éireann's centenary celebrations."
http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/38693
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 10:34:27 PM
Quote from: stew on August 26, 2009, 08:52:08 PM
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
Please no more of this nonsense about it being a 'community event' - it was a Sinn Fein event full stop. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck!
Produce your evidence Donald.
:D :D :D
QuoteCalling for a large mobilisation on Sunday were the three Sinn Féin MPs representing County Tyrone; Martin McGuinness, Michelle Gildernew and Pat Doherty.
In a joint statement the three MPs said:
"We are calling for people not only from County Tyrone but from across Ireland to make an effort to commemorate the sacrifices made and to celebrate the lives of the hunger strikers.
"We appeal to all those who recognise the contribution of the hunger strikers to the cause of Irish freedom to come to Galbally this Sunday. We would especially encourage ex-POWs to attend as a good opportunity to meet up with former comrades and show solidarity with the comrades who are no longer with us.
"We also encourage the republican and indeed the wider community to take part in many of the other events being organised throughout County Tyrone, these include processions, panel discussions, exhibitions and events coinciding with Na Fianna Éireann's centenary celebrations."
http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/38693
Can't argue with that. Fair play to them.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:12:13 PM
Many posters on this thread (including some that wouldn't be the most moderate of sorts) have agreed that there would be fear in standing up and opposing something like this. You probably wouldn't see it from your position, but that doesn't mean it isn't the case.
I was jumped on by numerous posters for having the audacity to question the appropriateness of this event - and that's as anonymous poster on an internet message board. Do you really think that any normal club member with objections would stand up and publically oppose an event like this?
Yes any active member who had a problem with it would, as would I if I thought it broke any rules.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:12:13 PM
It's your opinion that no rules were breached. Many people consider this to have been a party political event - i.e. a Sinn Fein event. As such, would it not be a breach of the rules?
And it's your opinion that a rule was breached - so what?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 10:34:27 PM
Quote from: stew on August 26, 2009, 08:52:08 PM
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
Please no more of this nonsense about it being a 'community event' - it was a Sinn Fein event full stop. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck!
Produce your evidence Donald.
:D :D :D
QuoteCalling for a large mobilisation on Sunday were the three Sinn Féin MPs representing County Tyrone; Martin McGuinness, Michelle Gildernew and Pat Doherty.
In a joint statement the three MPs said:
"We are calling for people not only from County Tyrone but from across Ireland to make an effort to commemorate the sacrifices made and to celebrate the lives of the hunger strikers.
"We appeal to all those who recognise the contribution of the hunger strikers to the cause of Irish freedom to come to Galbally this Sunday. We would especially encourage ex-POWs to attend as a good opportunity to meet up with former comrades and show solidarity with the comrades who are no longer with us.
"We also encourage the republican and indeed the wider community to take part in many of the other events being organised throughout County Tyrone, these include processions, panel discussions, exhibitions and events coinciding with Na Fianna Éireann's centenary celebrations."
http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/38693
Where does it say there that it's a SF event? I thought you had already conceded that the political allegiances of the participants are not relevant.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
For those who don't think Rule 7a has been breached, what about the following:
QuoteCONTROL OF ASSOCIATION PROPERTY
Uses of Property
44(a)
All property including grounds, Club Houses, Halls, Dressing Rooms and Handball Alleys owned or controlled by units of the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.
Therefore, as rule 7 refers to the GAA being 'Non-Party Political/Non-Sectarian' (surely an objective of the Association), was this use of the grounds not in breach of Rule 44?
No, it wasn't party political. It was a community based commeration. Why don't you take a run up to Galbally and check the book to see who hired it out?
Quote from: Donagh on August 27, 2009, 09:36:40 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
For those who don't think Rule 7a has been breached, what about the following:
QuoteCONTROL OF ASSOCIATION PROPERTY
Uses of Property
44(a)
All property including grounds, Club Houses, Halls, Dressing Rooms and Handball Alleys owned or controlled by units of the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.
Therefore, as rule 7 refers to the GAA being 'Non-Party Political/Non-Sectarian' (surely an objective of the Association), was this use of the grounds not in breach of Rule 44?
No, it wasn't party political. It was a community based commeration. Why don't you take a run up to Galbally and check the book to see who hired it out?
a clear case of his sticking his head in the sand so dont waste your time on him.
multiple pages later an he still hasnt got that the rules were not broken only in his own mind.
the rally and what it did , in no way 'conflicted' with the 'aims' of the GAA.
I see he tried to play the 'sectarian' card now FFS ::) - but failed miserably.
The rally was not a GAA rally and therefore did not cross into bringing the GAA into the party political realm.
but I am sure he will continue to try to find fault where there is none.
its quite obv that the GAA will have to ban all events (gambling - poker/race nights) , F/FG and other money making room/grounds hiring out to fund their clubs - if this is not going tohappen again.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 25, 2009, 05:37:13 PM
in our estate we had a man kicked to death in front of his wife and another nearly so. if you think i'm going to listen to you spouting shite and let it go unchallenged you are very much mistaken. you may be ashamed of what you are pal but i'm not. you sound like an alliance candidate who has never lived in ireland. this is a GAA discussion board so i fail to see the point you were making. it was certainly off topic at the very least. no one said sectarianism was a one way street but my point was in relation to northern irish catholics having a gaelic/irish/republican viewpoint that is dangerous to your own safety. when the IRA walk into the fountain with 100 people(like the UDA did here) then i will agree with the arguement you were trying to make.
And when you've finished with the therapy, try an anger management course. :)
TOOL
Quote from: Donagh on August 27, 2009, 09:25:22 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:12:13 PM
Many posters on this thread (including some that wouldn't be the most moderate of sorts) have agreed that there would be fear in standing up and opposing something like this. You probably wouldn't see it from your position, but that doesn't mean it isn't the case.
I was jumped on by numerous posters for having the audacity to question the appropriateness of this event - and that's as anonymous poster on an internet message board. Do you really think that any normal club member with objections would stand up and publically oppose an event like this?
Yes any active member who had a problem with it would, as would I if I thought it broke any rules.
I don't think they would. Many on here have agreed with me.
Just because you wouldn't have an issue with standing up and objecting to something doesn't mean others wouldn't.
Quote from: Donagh on August 27, 2009, 09:27:23 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 10:34:27 PM
Quote from: stew on August 26, 2009, 08:52:08 PM
Quote from: zoyler on August 26, 2009, 10:52:34 AM
Please no more of this nonsense about it being a 'community event' - it was a Sinn Fein event full stop. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck!
Produce your evidence Donald.
:D :D :D
QuoteCalling for a large mobilisation on Sunday were the three Sinn Féin MPs representing County Tyrone; Martin McGuinness, Michelle Gildernew and Pat Doherty.
In a joint statement the three MPs said:
"We are calling for people not only from County Tyrone but from across Ireland to make an effort to commemorate the sacrifices made and to celebrate the lives of the hunger strikers.
"We appeal to all those who recognise the contribution of the hunger strikers to the cause of Irish freedom to come to Galbally this Sunday. We would especially encourage ex-POWs to attend as a good opportunity to meet up with former comrades and show solidarity with the comrades who are no longer with us.
"We also encourage the republican and indeed the wider community to take part in many of the other events being organised throughout County Tyrone, these include processions, panel discussions, exhibitions and events coinciding with Na Fianna Éireann's centenary celebrations."
http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/38693
Where does it say there that it's a SF event? I thought you had already conceded that the political allegiances of the participants are not relevant.
Well SF were clearly
promoting it - does that make them 'the promoters'?
Quote from: Donagh on August 27, 2009, 09:36:40 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
For those who don't think Rule 7a has been breached, what about the following:
QuoteCONTROL OF ASSOCIATION PROPERTY
Uses of Property
44(a)
All property including grounds, Club Houses, Halls, Dressing Rooms and Handball Alleys owned or controlled by units of the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.
Therefore, as rule 7 refers to the GAA being 'Non-Party Political/Non-Sectarian' (surely an objective of the Association), was this use of the grounds not in breach of Rule 44?
No, it wasn't party political. It was a community based commeration. Why don't you take a run up to Galbally and check the book to see who hired it out?
What would that prove? You could write anything in the book.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 27, 2009, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: Donagh on August 27, 2009, 09:36:40 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
For those who don't think Rule 7a has been breached, what about the following:
QuoteCONTROL OF ASSOCIATION PROPERTY
Uses of Property
44(a)
All property including grounds, Club Houses, Halls, Dressing Rooms and Handball Alleys owned or controlled by units of the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.
Therefore, as rule 7 refers to the GAA being 'Non-Party Political/Non-Sectarian' (surely an objective of the Association), was this use of the grounds not in breach of Rule 44?
No, it wasn't party political. It was a community based commeration. Why don't you take a run up to Galbally and check the book to see who hired it out?
a clear case of his sticking his head in the sand so dont waste your time on him.
multiple pages later an he still hasnt got that the rules were not broken only in his own mind.
If I was 'sticking my head in the sand', i'd be ignoring the whole issue, just brushing it under the carpet.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 27, 2009, 10:01:59 AM
the rally and what it did , in no way 'conflicted' with the 'aims' of the GAA.
I see he tried to play the 'sectarian' card now FFS ::) - but failed miserably.
I didn't try and play the 'sectarian card' at all, I just quoted the full rule, which happened to mention the GAA being non-sectarian. I believe this event broke the rules on the basis of being party-political, not on the basis of the non-sectarian rule.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 27, 2009, 10:01:59 AM
The rally was not a GAA rally and therefore did not cross into bringing the GAA into the party political realm.
That's the whole point! It wasn't a GAA rally. It was a political one. But it was on a GAA ground.
Seriously.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 27, 2009, 06:04:18 PM
Well SF were clearly promoting it - does that make them 'the promoters'?
Ye wha? Is there a rule that says events in GAA grounds shall not be promoted by political parties? I passed pleasantries with Gerry Adams at the Ulster Final - where SF promoting that as well?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
What would that prove? You could write anything in the book.
Anytime I've booked a GAA facility, I've put my name in the book or that of the organisation I represent. Normally there will be someone in the club to vouch for my identity - are you saying this didn't happen on this occasion? Why have you so little faith in Galbally - because you think they're all rabid Shinners or the Shinners have infiltrated and taken over the club? As I said before tinfoil hat stuff.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 27, 2009, 05:59:44 PM
I don't think they would. Many on here have agreed with me.
Just because you wouldn't have an issue with standing up and objecting to something doesn't mean others wouldn't.
Well I would suggest that those who would agree you haven't thought it through because I yet to come across a club AGM where anyone given half a chance isn't more than happy to sound off ad nauseum about anything and everyone regardless of political or personal feelings.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 27, 2009, 06:10:21 PM
That's the whole point! It wasn't a GAA rally. It was a political one. But it was on a GAA ground.
It was a commemoration of events that happened almost 30 years ago. What is political is that other parties are trying to brand it as a SF rally for their own party political reasons.
Its a neat turn of events when people are claiming that a Hunger Strikes Commemoration is not "political" when the whole essence of the Hunger Strikes in the first instance was the prisoners' fight for political status.
Quote from: cornafean on August 28, 2009, 10:04:14 AM
Its a neat turn of events when people are claiming that a Hunger Strikes Commemoration is not "political" when the whole essence of the Hunger Strikes in the first instance was the prisoners' fight for political status.
So are you saying that the "events" which take place every year recalling the Battle of the Boyne, 1916 Easter Rising
or Bloody Sunday are all political rallys? All these events were political at the time, but are now commemorated by
the respective traditions?
Most of the Easter Rising commemorations, and indeed the annual Wolfe Tone & Beal na mBlath commemorations, are indeed political rallies. I don't know how else you could sensibly describe them. They are organised by politicans and political parties, including Sinn Fein, and the speakers are generally political figures.
The organisers of the 12th July commemorations each year would probably deny that they are political, but again they tend to have a heavy political flavour.
I don't know enough about the Bloody Sunday commemorations to comment about them.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 27, 2009, 06:10:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 27, 2009, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: Donagh on August 27, 2009, 09:36:40 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
For those who don't think Rule 7a has been breached, what about the following:
QuoteCONTROL OF ASSOCIATION PROPERTY
Uses of Property
44(a)
All property including grounds, Club Houses, Halls, Dressing Rooms and Handball Alleys owned or controlled by units of the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.
Therefore, as rule 7 refers to the GAA being 'Non-Party Political/Non-Sectarian' (surely an objective of the Association), was this use of the grounds not in breach of Rule 44?
No, it wasn't party political. It was a community based commeration. Why don't you take a run up to Galbally and check the book to see who hired it out?
a clear case of his sticking his head in the sand so dont waste your time on him.
multiple pages later an he still hasnt got that the rules were not broken only in his own mind.
If I was 'sticking my head in the sand', i'd be ignoring the whole issue, just brushing it under the carpet.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 27, 2009, 10:01:59 AM
the rally and what it did , in no way 'conflicted' with the 'aims' of the GAA.
I see he tried to play the 'sectarian' card now FFS ::) - but failed miserably.
I didn't try and play the 'sectarian card' at all, I just quoted the full rule, which happened to mention the GAA being non-sectarian. I believe this event broke the rules on the basis of being party-political, not on the basis of the non-sectarian rule.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 27, 2009, 10:01:59 AM
The rally was not a GAA rally and therefore did not cross into bringing the GAA into the party political realm.
That's the whole point! It wasn't a GAA rally. It was a political one. But it was on a GAA ground.
Seriously.
head in the sand over the fact being the rule wasnt broken - apart from maybe in your mind.
GAA have not had a problem thus far. But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.
if you reference the anti-sectarian aspect - what the hell are you talking about if you are not trying to imply that it has something to do with that.
youve been caught out and are digging deeper to try to justify your opinion.
To put the matter to bed, show us where the GAA are also in agreement with you over the rules being broken. you must have some statement issude by them stating such.
thanks.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.
I think you are grossly overestimating the regard in which "small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland" hold their politicians. I can't imagine that anyone in those areas would get too upset, let along alienated, if the GAA issued a directive banning clubs from allowing political parties & movements to hire their facilities for rallies, meetings and similar events.
Most GAA people I know would strongly welcome such a directive as they are sick and tired of being used by politicians for their own, self-serving ends. If you don't believe me, read this story (which I referenced earlier in this thread) about how Kingscourt Stars dealt with accusations of political favouritism earlier this year http://www.anglocelt.ie/opinion/letters/articles/2009/06/17/40721-gaa-denies-involvement-in-smear-campaign/
Quote from: cornafean on August 28, 2009, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.
I think you are grossly overestimating the regard in which "small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland" hold their politicians. I can't imagine that anyone in those areas would get too upset, let along alienated, if the GAA issued a directive banning clubs from allowing political parties & movements to hire their facilities for rallies, meetings and similar events.
Most GAA people I know would strongly welcome such a directive as they are sick and tired of being used by politicians for their own, self-serving ends. If you don't believe me, read this story (which I referenced earlier in this thread) about how Kingscourt Stars dealt with accusations of political favouritism earlier this year http://www.anglocelt.ie/opinion/letters/articles/2009/06/17/40721-gaa-denies-involvement-in-smear-campaign/
maybe so but the vast majority of the Nationalist people of Tyrone hold the Hunger Strikers in very high esteem.
Quote from: glens abu on August 28, 2009, 12:13:09 PM
maybe so but the vast majority of the Nationalist people of Tyrone hold the Hunger Strikers in very high esteem.
Indeed that may be so, but Lynchbhoy's comment was in relation to "small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland"
Quote from: cornafean on August 28, 2009, 10:04:14 AM
Its a neat turn of events when people are claiming that a Hunger Strikes Commemoration is not "political" when the whole essence of the Hunger Strikes in the first instance was the prisoners' fight for political status.
There's a difference between "party political" and "political".
Quote from: cornafean on August 28, 2009, 10:04:14 AM
Its a neat turn of events when people are claiming that a Hunger Strikes Commemoration is not "political" when the whole essence of the Hunger Strikes in the first instance was the prisoners' fight for political status.
sorry I missed this bit before.You are missing out a good bit on that.
That political status thing was one part of it but there were 4 other demands inc the right to wear their own clothes.
That the diplock courts could and were sentencing guys on suspicion - many who had no afiliation to ira etc (though after that and being locked up in long kesh when innocent- many then did).
The criminalisation of these guys was the problem and the political status was not 'poliitcal' per se, but to be NOT cited as ordinary anti social criminals - as the long kesh men , well with no tstats, but most who were locked up were for membership and the ones locked up for carrying out killing , bombing etc I would have thought were in a small minority.
Therefore the majority were guilty of actually doing nothing. Some would have had membership, but plenty didnt.
so its incorrect to simply state or imply that the HS was a thing of a 'political' requirements nature.
Then the commemoration was a political thing because of this.
I'd agree that SF speaches etc would have made it political, but the GAA had nothing to do this this and this does not infringe GAA rules or politicise the GAA no more than a FF TD holding a clinic in Feakle GAA club in clare.
Quote from: cornafean on August 28, 2009, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.
I think you are grossly overestimating the regard in which "small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland" hold their politicians. I can't imagine that anyone in those areas would get too upset, let along alienated, if the GAA issued a directive banning clubs from allowing political parties & movements to hire their facilities for rallies, meetings and similar events.
Most GAA people I know would strongly welcome such a directive as they are sick and tired of being used by politicians for their own, self-serving ends. If you don't believe me, read this story (which I referenced earlier in this thread) about how Kingscourt Stars dealt with accusations of political favouritism earlier this year http://www.anglocelt.ie/opinion/letters/articles/2009/06/17/40721-gaa-denies-involvement-in-smear-campaign/
I applaud what kingscourt stars did.
My point is that it is the politicians that request the use of the premises.
If the GA dont grnt them this, where else to hold these clinics and a lot of people would see them as important - never been to one myself therefore I dont but thats me not the population that requires something to be done in an area and in the present financial climate might be even more important.
if you know different then thats fine, but down the country there are no superpubs and numerous public/large building where to hold such meetings !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 02:25:52 PM
If the GA dont grnt them this, where else to hold these clinics and a lot of people would see them as important - never been to one myself therefore I dont but thats me not the population that requires something to be done in an area and in the present financial climate might be even more important.
if you know different then thats fine, but down the country there are no superpubs and numerous public/large building where to hold such meetings !
The vast majority of politicians clinics are held in pubs and hotels, normally because a supportive publican or hotelier wouldn't be charging the politican for the use of the room. The numbers attending a clinic would generally be small - similar I suppose to a doctor's or dentist's clinic - and certainly never big enough to need a large hall or other building. The only time a TD ever sees big crowds at a clinic is when he or his party is in trouble and attracting demonstrators. They love that! :)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.
And having political rallies in GAA grounds doesn't alienate anyone?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
if you reference the anti-sectarian aspect - what the hell are you talking about if you are not trying to imply that it has something to do with that.
youve been caught out and are digging deeper to try to justify your opinion.
I quoted the full rule. I didn't edit it. The rule mentioned that the GAA is 'Non-Sectarian'. I didn't delete that bit. Big deal.
As for being caught out, I have no problem in standing over what I have posted. The fact that you misunderstood is your problem.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
To put the matter to bed, show us where the GAA are also in agreement with you over the rules being broken. you must have some statement issude by them stating such.
Where did I say that the GAA was in agreement with me? Are you making stuff up?
All I have done is put forward my argument as to why I think it is against the rules.
You'll note that the GAA have not actually issued a proper statement on this as yet - they have not unequivocally stated that this
wasn't in breach of the rules. If it was as clear cut as you think, surely they'd just issue a statement and have it done with. So far, it has been pretty much 'no comment'.
And when pretty much the same thing happened in Casement a few years ago, the GAA denied SF All Ireland tickets. Maybe not a credible sanction, but surely an acknowledgement that their actions were inappropriate and not acceptable to the organisation(?)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 02:23:09 PM
That political status thing was one part of it but there were 4 other demands inc the right to wear their own clothes.
The right not to wear a prison uniform was one of the 5 demands
to reestablish political status. It was hardly a demand for reasons of style or comfort.
The demands were their
means of securing political status. There wasn't one demand for political status, and then 4 other demands. All 5 were about political status.
People being far too politically correct trying to score points.
The sacrafice made by the hunger strikers lit a flame that remained in peoples hearts and minds making the Irish people in the occupied 6 fight on against oppression and whether people like it or not this grew in to what we call the peace process today.
Any Gael that remembers going to football games being searched and stopped at check points for hours, sometimes missing games know how far things have come on and it is because of the courage and belief of these type of men that things were made possible.
As Bobby Sands famously said "OUR REVENGE WILL BE THE LAUGHTER OF OUR CHILDREN"
When you see kids running about in their club and county colours nowadays its a far cry from the days when this was forbidden in many areas.
THE GAA SHOULD BE PROUD TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THESE GREAT MEN.
Quote from: JUMBODEMPSEY on August 28, 2009, 11:53:27 PM
People being far too politically correct trying to score points.
The sacrafice made by the hunger strikers lit a flame that remained in peoples hearts and minds making the Irish people in the occupied 6 fight on against oppression and whether people like it or not this grew in to what we call the peace process today.
Any Gael that remembers going to football games being searched and stopped at check points for hours, sometimes missing games know how far things have come on and it is because of the courage and belief of these type of men that things were made possible.
As Bobby Sands famously said "OUR REVENGE WILL BE THE LAUGHTER OF OUR CHILDREN"
When you see kids running about in their club and county colours nowadays its a far cry from the days when this was forbidden in many areas.
THE GAA SHOULD BE PROUD TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THESE GREAT MEN.
Arse about face logic. The peace process was only possible because the comrades of the hunger strikers finally realised that their 'armed struggle' was not going to achieve its objectives and opened up channels of communication to the British government in order to bring the thing to an end. The peace that we enjoy today could have been enjoyed decades earlier had it not been for the stupidity and short sightedness of people like Sands and his comrades. Great men? Absolutely not. Men with great hatred and fanatic hearts, as Yeats said.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 29, 2009, 07:57:29 AM
Arse about face logic. The peace process was only possible because the comrades of the hunger strikers finally realised that their 'armed struggle' was not going to achieve its objectives and opened up channels of communication to the British government in order to bring the thing to an end. The peace that we enjoy today could have been enjoyed decades earlier had it not been for the stupidity and short sightedness of people like Sands and his comrades. Great men? Absolutely not. Men with great hatred and fanatic hearts, as Yeats said.
Either way the Hungershrike led to that.
I don't know were your getting your 'decades' from as the civil rights movement was only one decade before and during one demonstration the British Army shot 27 people killing 13. It's your definition of peace I suppose - "
Peace is not the absence of war but the presence of justice."
Quote from: Zapatista on August 29, 2009, 08:06:59 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 29, 2009, 07:57:29 AM
Arse about face logic. The peace process was only possible because the comrades of the hunger strikers finally realised that their 'armed struggle' was not going to achieve its objectives and opened up channels of communication to the British government in order to bring the thing to an end. The peace that we enjoy today could have been enjoyed decades earlier had it not been for the stupidity and short sightedness of people like Sands and his comrades. Great men? Absolutely not. Men with great hatred and fanatic hearts, as Yeats said.
Either way the Hungershrike led to that.
I don't know were your getting your 'decades' from as the civil rights movement was only one decade before and during one demonstration the British Army shot 27 people killing 13. It's your definition of peace I suppose - "Peace is not the absence of war but the presence of justice."
The ceasefires of the 1990's were a couple of decades after the civil rights marches (I said people like Sands and his comrades - I was referring to the republican movement in general). Most of the demands of the civil rights people had been met by the early 1970's - one man, one vote, an end to discrimination in housing and employment practices, etc. By this stage, however, Irish republicans had moved the goalposts. Equal treatment was no longer enough - the British presence in Ireland had to go.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 28, 2009, 06:20:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.
And having political rallies in GAA grounds doesn't alienate anyone?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
if you reference the anti-sectarian aspect - what the hell are you talking about if you are not trying to imply that it has something to do with that.
youve been caught out and are digging deeper to try to justify your opinion.
I quoted the full rule. I didn't edit it. The rule mentioned that the GAA is 'Non-Sectarian'. I didn't delete that bit. Big deal.
As for being caught out, I have no problem in standing over what I have posted. The fact that you misunderstood is your problem.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 28, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
To put the matter to bed, show us where the GAA are also in agreement with you over the rules being broken. you must have some statement issude by them stating such.
Where did I say that the GAA was in agreement with me? Are you making stuff up?
All I have done is put forward my argument as to why I think it is against the rules.
You'll note that the GAA have not actually issued a proper statement on this as yet - they have not unequivocally stated that this wasn't in breach of the rules. If it was as clear cut as you think, surely they'd just issue a statement and have it done with. So far, it has been pretty much 'no comment'.
And when pretty much the same thing happened in Casement a few years ago, the GAA denied SF All Ireland tickets. Maybe not a credible sanction, but surely an acknowledgement that their actions were inappropriate and not acceptable to the organisation(?)
at last - yes, this is your opinion.
thats all.
looks like its your opinion on the demands of the prisoners. but I am sure you can tell them or those that knew them what they actually meant ! ::)
Arse about face logic. The peace process was only possible because the comrades of the hunger strikers finally realised that their 'armed struggle' was not going to achieve its objectives and opened up channels of communication to the British government in order to bring the thing to an end. The peace that we enjoy today could have been enjoyed decades earlier had it not been for the stupidity and short sightedness of people like Sands and his comrades. Great men? Absolutely not. Men with great hatred and fanatic hearts, as Yeats said.
[/quote]
It took the bomb and the bullet to get the Brits to listen. John Hume wasn't a violent man and i recall a peaceful protest in which he got smacked in the head with a batton.
The Hunger Strikers gained the support for Irish Nationalism to press on and force the Brits to talk and solve the problem.
Whatever way you want to look at it things wouldn't be the way they are today without the help of men like the Hunger Strikers and the IRA. What happened when the Irish government said they were going to send troops up to protect the people? They stopped short of the border and stood idly by.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 29, 2009, 07:57:29 AM
Arse about face logic. The peace process was only possible because the comrades of the hunger strikers finally realised that their 'armed struggle' was not going to achieve its objectives and opened up channels of communication to the British government in order to bring the thing to an end. The peace that we enjoy today could have been enjoyed decades earlier had it not been for the stupidity and short sightedness of people like Sands and his comrades. Great men? Absolutely not. Men with great hatred and fanatic hearts, as Yeats said.
So you resurface again, eventually, how about answering the question I put to you a week ago?
Bullshit with it, as usual, the British realised that they were in a no-win situation (the British army moreso than their political masters), and stalemate didn't appeal to their imperial sensitivities. There would be no 'peace' today, and there still isn't for a whole lot of people that you can't see from your Ivory Tower, i.e., The Heights in Coleraine, except the 'peace' of discrimination and subjugation, were it not for the resolve of those 10 men and more.
The peace process produced nothing that wasn't on offer at Sunningdale in the 70's. The only difference this time around was that the penny finally dropped with both republicans and the DUP that this was as good as it gets. Republicans had to drop their opposition to the 'unionist veto' and accept unity by consent instead (no, I don't understand the difference either). They had to drop their demand for British withdrawal and instead take up their places at Stormont, helping administer British rule. The DUP, meanwhile, had to accept that majority rule was never coming back and that they were going to have share power with fenians. All this was evident to anyone with a bit of wit in the mid 70's. The hunger strikers needn't have died. They needn't even have been in prison, if only their leaders had displayed a bit more vision.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 29, 2009, 08:20:51 PM
The peace process produced nothing that wasn't on offer at Sunningdale in the 70's.
Bravo, slow learner. Now, tell us who brought that particular institution down?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 29, 2009, 08:27:40 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 29, 2009, 08:20:51 PM
The peace process produced nothing that wasn't on offer at Sunningdale in the 70's.
Bravo, slow learner. Now, tell us who brought that particular institution down?
It was brought down by loyalists, but republicans weren't supporting it either.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 29, 2009, 08:46:49 PM
It was brought down by loyalists, but republicans weren't supporting it either.
D'oh! Therefore the Brits caved in to the loyalists, ergo... plus ça change, oui?
Carry on Paddy, sure we'll just cave in here and you just continue to tug the forelock there as usual, there's a good lapdog!
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 29, 2009, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 29, 2009, 08:46:49 PM
It was brought down by loyalists, but republicans weren't supporting it either.
D'oh! Therefore the Brits caved in to the loyalists, ergo... plus ça change, oui? Carry on Paddy, sure we'll just cave in here and you just continue to tug the forelock there as usual, there's a good lapdog!
Haven't a clue what that means. Do you?
We're going well now :
GAA school names 'not released'
Eight controlled schools have worked with the GAA
The NI education minister will not release the names of eight controlled schools which offer GAA coaching because she fears it might endanger their security.
The DUP's Michelle McIlveen had requested the information.
Instead the minister, Catriona Ruane, has listed all the schools which receive coaching from either the GAA or the Irish Football Association (IFA).
She said he did not want to place any school in "an invidious position."
Controlled schools are attended mainly by Protestant children while the GAA is an organisation which draws it members almost exclusively from the Catholic community.
The eight schools in question are among 600 schools participating in the Primary Sports Programme.
It has been running since 2007 and involves coaches from the GAA and IFA working with children between the ages of four and eight.
Sixty two coaches work in 600 schools with over 32,000 children
Does controlled schools include so called integrated schools, or are these a separate category?
It's official
Hunger strike commemoration NOT linked to GAA'
"The main centre for the event, as publicly advertised, was Galbally community centre which is not a GAA property."
The report to the minister from the director of Ulster GAA Danny Murphy said the Tyrone county committee, the Ulster council, and the central council of the GAA were not involved in any way with the events.
The report added there was no evidence that Galbally Pearse's GAA club organised the event in contravention to GAA rules prohibiting use of premises for party political purposes.
The GAA plans to produce a clear policy document on the use of association property in the coming weeks and sent out a recent reminder of the rules to members.
Mr McCausland said he would be reviewing the GAA correspondence to ensure it adequately addressed all issues raised.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/uk-ireland/hunger-strike-not-linked-to-gaa-14803948.html#ixzz0nd42h0yD (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/uk-ireland/hunger-strike-not-linked-to-gaa-14803948.html#ixzz0nd42h0yD)
Quote from: Main Street on May 11, 2010, 02:56:39 PM
The GAA plans to produce a clear policy document on the use of association property in the coming weeks and sent out a recent reminder of the rules to members.
Good.
And I hope the GAA now exercise due litigation and fleece Maguire01 for gross libel ;)
A public flogging should suffiice... :D
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 11, 2010, 03:43:15 PM
And I hope the GAA now exercise due litigation and fleece Maguire01 for gross libel ;)
For what? I don't remember saying the GAA organised this.
I think Gort Na Mona in Belfast held a recent underage tournament in memory of one of the hunger strikers.
Minder, you're wrong. GNM didn't hold an event in memory of one of the hunger strikers. The event was in memory of one of their members who was gunned down by Brit terrorists whilst defending his community. The young hero in question was called John Dempsey.
It is only fitting and right that GNM remember this young man with the pride and dignity his courage and sacrifice deserve.
It is also worth noting that today, 12th May, is the anniversary of Francis Hughes
Some footage I took at Casement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpCozzKLO70 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpCozzKLO70)
Quote from: Ulick on May 12, 2010, 09:20:35 AM
Some footage I took at Casement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpCozzKLO70 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpCozzKLO70)
I can't access YouTube - is that Gerry with the helicopter?
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 12, 2010, 08:31:14 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 11, 2010, 03:43:15 PM
And I hope the GAA now exercise due litigation and fleece Maguire01 for gross libel ;)
For what? I don't remember saying the GAA organised this.
Quote
"The main centre for the event, as publicly advertised, was Galbally community centre which is not a GAA property."
Your thread title:
Hunger strike commemoration at a GAA ground Libellous enough for me.
Considering there are photographs on this thread of the event on the pitch, I'd say that the title was spot on. Also, I didn't make the story up - I posted a story already reported in the press.
You'll note again that I never said the GAA organised this event, whether that be the club, county or HQ. The GAA's statement contradicts nothing I said in fact. It's clever in saying that the "main" event was not "advertised" as being on GAA property - not quite the same as saying the event didn't take place on GAA property. It also said that the club didn't organise it - that wasn't the issue either.
The fact that they're issuing guidance on this probably says most about their report. Will be interesting to see how clear this is.
There was a spill-over on to the GAA ground, not the same as having the commemoration principally at a GAA ground, as your thread title very clearly implies.
Spill over? Were the speeches not on the pitch?
Where does it say anywhere that spill-overs can't have speeches?
It appeared to be set up with microphones and a PA. Does that sound like a "spill over"?
Anyway, regardless, it was on the pitch, therefore it was in the GAA ground. Significantly, the GAA's statement doesn't deny this.
What the GAA have said is that the "main" event was not "advertised" as being on GAA property. I never said it was.
It also said that the event was not organised by the GAA. Again, I never said it was.
It did not say that the event didn't actually take place on the GAA's property. Photos show that at least some of it did, including the speeches.
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2010, 10:41:17 PM
Was there not a lorry on the pitch with the speeches being given on the trailer?
I think I saw a picture of this on the board.
Where does it say anywhere that spill-overs can't have lorries?
:D
Now, that's what you call a spill-over!
A spill over?
Looks like they are 'holding the line' with impressive discipline.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16144312@N07/3829003101/in/set-72157622062520708/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/16144312@N07/3829003101/in/set-72157622062520708/)
Quote from: Ulick on May 13, 2010, 12:14:32 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16144312@N07/3829003101/in/set-72157622062520708/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/16144312@N07/3829003101/in/set-72157622062520708/)
Ah - the pitch was a spill-over area for the caterers.
Quote from: Ulick on May 13, 2010, 12:14:32 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16144312@N07/3829003101/in/set-72157622062520708/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/16144312@N07/3829003101/in/set-72157622062520708/)
Jaysus that lad at the front hasnt been shying away from the trough! ;D