Hunger strike commemoration at a GAA ground

[Donagh]

That's the whole point! It wasn't a GAA rally. It was a political one. But it was on a GAA ground.

It was a commemoration of events that happened almost 30 years ago. What is political is that other parties are trying to brand it as a SF rally for their own party political reasons.

[cornafean]

Its a neat turn of events when people are claiming that a Hunger Strikes Commemoration is not "political" when the whole essence of the Hunger Strikes in the first instance was the prisoners' fight for political status.

[020304 Tir Eoghain]

Its a neat turn of events when people are claiming that a Hunger Strikes Commemoration is not "political" when the whole essence of the Hunger Strikes in the first instance was the prisoners' fight for political status.

So are you saying that the "events" which take place every year recalling the Battle of the Boyne, 1916 Easter Rising
or Bloody Sunday are all political rallys? All these events were political at the time, but are now commemorated by
the respective traditions?

[cornafean]

Most of the Easter Rising commemorations, and indeed the annual Wolfe Tone & Beal na mBlath  commemorations, are indeed political rallies. I don't know how else you could sensibly describe them. They are organised by politicans and political parties, including Sinn Fein, and the speakers are generally political figures.

The organisers of the 12th July commemorations each year would probably deny that they are political, but again they tend to have a heavy political flavour.

I don't know enough about the Bloody Sunday commemorations to comment about them.

[lynchbhoy]

For those who don't think Rule 7a has been breached, what about the following:

CONTROL OF ASSOCIATION PROPERTY
Uses of Property
44(a)
All property including grounds, Club Houses, Halls, Dressing Rooms and Handball Alleys owned or controlled by units of the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.

Therefore, as rule 7 refers to the GAA being 'Non-Party Political/Non-Sectarian' (surely an objective of the Association), was this use of the grounds not in breach of Rule 44?

No, it wasn't party political. It was a community based commeration. Why don't you take a run up to Galbally and check the book to see who hired it out?

a clear case of his sticking his head in the sand so dont waste your time on him.
multiple pages later an he still hasnt got that the rules were not broken only in his own mind.

If I was 'sticking my head in the sand', i'd be ignoring the whole issue, just brushing it under the carpet.

the rally and what it did , in no way 'conflicted' with the 'aims' of the GAA.
I see he tried to play the 'sectarian' card now FFS  - but failed miserably.

I didn't try and play the 'sectarian card' at all, I just quoted the full rule, which happened to mention the GAA being non-sectarian. I believe this event broke the rules on the basis of being party-political, not on the basis of the non-sectarian rule.

The rally was not a GAA rally and therefore did not cross into bringing the GAA into the party political realm.

That's the whole point! It wasn't a GAA rally. It was a political one. But it was on a GAA ground.
Seriously.

head in the sand over the fact being the rule wasnt broken - apart from maybe in your mind.
GAA have not had a problem thus far. But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.

if you reference the anti-sectarian aspect - what the hell are you talking about if you are not trying to imply that it has something to do with that.
youve been caught out and are digging deeper to try to justify your opinion.

To put the matter to bed, show us where the GAA are also in agreement with you over the rules being broken. you must have some statement issude by them stating such.

thanks.

[cornafean]

But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.

I think you are grossly overestimating the regard in which "small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland" hold their politicians. I can't imagine that anyone in those areas would get too upset, let along alienated, if the GAA issued a directive banning clubs from allowing political parties & movements to hire their facilities for rallies, meetings and similar events. 

Most GAA people I know would strongly welcome such a directive as they are sick and tired of being used by politicians for their own, self-serving ends. If you don't believe me, read this story  (which I referenced earlier in this thread) about how Kingscourt Stars dealt with accusations of political favouritism earlier this year http://www.anglocelt.ie/opinion/letters/articles/2009/06/17/40721-gaa-denies-involvement-in-smear-campaign/

[glens abu]

But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.

I think you are grossly overestimating the regard in which "small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland" hold their politicians. I can't imagine that anyone in those areas would get too upset, let along alienated, if the GAA issued a directive banning clubs from allowing political parties & movements to hire their facilities for rallies, meetings and similar events. 

Most GAA people I know would strongly welcome such a directive as they are sick and tired of being used by politicians for their own, self-serving ends. If you don't believe me, read this story  (which I referenced earlier in this thread) about how Kingscourt Stars dealt with accusations of political favouritism earlier this year http://www.anglocelt.ie/opinion/letters/articles/2009/06/17/40721-gaa-denies-involvement-in-smear-campaign/

maybe so but the vast majority of the Nationalist  people of Tyrone hold the Hunger Strikers in very high esteem.

[cornafean]

maybe so but the vast majority of the Nationalist  people of Tyrone hold the Hunger Strikers in very high esteem.

Indeed that may be so, but Lynchbhoy's comment was in relation to "small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland"

[magpie seanie]

Its a neat turn of events when people are claiming that a Hunger Strikes Commemoration is not "political" when the whole essence of the Hunger Strikes in the first instance was the prisoners' fight for political status.

There's a difference between "party political" and "political".

[lynchbhoy]

Its a neat turn of events when people are claiming that a Hunger Strikes Commemoration is not "political" when the whole essence of the Hunger Strikes in the first instance was the prisoners' fight for political status.

sorry I missed this bit before.You are missing out a good bit on that.
That political status thing was one part of it but there were 4 other demands inc the right to wear their own clothes.
That the diplock courts could and were sentencing guys on suspicion - many who had no afiliation to ira etc (though after that and being locked up in long kesh when innocent- many then did).
The criminalisation of these guys was the problem and the political status was not 'poliitcal' per se, but to be NOT cited as ordinary anti social criminals - as the long kesh men , well with no tstats, but most who were locked up were for membership and the ones locked up for carrying out killing , bombing etc I would have thought were in a small minority.
Therefore the majority were guilty of actually doing nothing. Some would have had membership, but plenty didnt.
so its incorrect to simply state or imply that the HS was a thing of a 'political' requirements nature.
Then the commemoration was a political thing because of this.
I'd agree that SF speaches etc would have made it political, but the GAA had nothing to do this this and this does not infringe GAA rules or politicise the GAA no more than a FF TD holding a clinic in Feakle GAA club in clare.

[lynchbhoy]

But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.

I think you are grossly overestimating the regard in which "small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland" hold their politicians. I can't imagine that anyone in those areas would get too upset, let along alienated, if the GAA issued a directive banning clubs from allowing political parties & movements to hire their facilities for rallies, meetings and similar events. 

Most GAA people I know would strongly welcome such a directive as they are sick and tired of being used by politicians for their own, self-serving ends. If you don't believe me, read this story  (which I referenced earlier in this thread) about how Kingscourt Stars dealt with accusations of political favouritism earlier this year http://www.anglocelt.ie/opinion/letters/articles/2009/06/17/40721-gaa-denies-involvement-in-smear-campaign/

I applaud what kingscourt stars did.
My point is that it is the politicians that request the use of the premises.
If the GA dont grnt them this, where else to hold these clinics and a lot of people would see them as important - never been to one myself therefore I dont but thats me not the population that requires something to be done in an area and in the present financial climate might be even more important.

if you know different then thats fine, but down the country there are no superpubs and numerous public/large building where to hold such meetings !

[cornafean]

If the GA dont grnt them this, where else to hold these clinics and a lot of people would see them as important - never been to one myself therefore I dont but thats me not the population that requires something to be done in an area and in the present financial climate might be even more important.

if you know different then thats fine, but down the country there are no superpubs and numerous public/large building where to hold such meetings !

The vast majority of politicians clinics are held in pubs and hotels, normally because a supportive publican or hotelier wouldn't be charging the politican for the use of the room.  The numbers attending a clinic would generally be small - similar I suppose to a doctor's or dentist's clinic - and certainly never big enough to need a large hall or other building. The only time a TD ever sees big crowds at a clinic is when he or his party is in trouble and attracting demonstrators. They love that! 

[Maguire01]

But I expect with whingers like you continuing the non-case, they will be harrassed into making some kind of move that will end up alienating small rural communities in the south/west regions of Ireland where the GAA club/pitch is the only place to hold events.

And having political rallies in GAA grounds doesn't alienate anyone?

if you reference the anti-sectarian aspect - what the hell are you talking about if you are not trying to imply that it has something to do with that.
youve been caught out and are digging deeper to try to justify your opinion.

I quoted the full rule. I didn't edit it. The rule mentioned that the GAA is 'Non-Sectarian'. I didn't delete that bit. Big deal.
As for being caught out, I have no problem in standing over what I have posted. The fact that you misunderstood is your problem.

To put the matter to bed, show us where the GAA are also in agreement with you over the rules being broken. you must have some statement issude by them stating such.

Where did I say that the GAA was in agreement with me? Are you making stuff up?
All I have done is put forward my argument as to why I think it is against the rules.

You'll note that the GAA have not actually issued a proper statement on this as yet - they have not unequivocally stated that this wasn't in breach of the rules. If it was as clear cut as you think, surely they'd just issue a statement and have it done with. So far, it has been pretty much 'no comment'.

And when pretty much the same thing happened in Casement a few years ago, the GAA denied SF All Ireland tickets. Maybe not a credible sanction, but surely an acknowledgement that their actions were inappropriate and not acceptable to the organisation(?)

[Maguire01]

That political status thing was one part of it but there were 4 other demands inc the right to wear their own clothes.

The right not to wear a prison uniform was one of the 5 demands to reestablish political status. It was hardly a demand for reasons of style or comfort.

The demands were their means of securing political status. There wasn't one demand for political status, and then 4 other demands. All 5 were about political status.

[JUMBODEMPSEY]

People being far too politically correct trying to score points.
The sacrafice made by the hunger strikers lit a flame that remained in peoples hearts and minds making the Irish people in the occupied 6 fight on against oppression and whether people like it or not this grew in to what we call the peace process today.
Any Gael that remembers going to football games being searched and stopped at check points for hours, sometimes missing games know how far things have come on and it is because of the courage and belief of these type of men that things were made possible.

As Bobby Sands famously said "OUR REVENGE WILL BE THE LAUGHTER OF OUR CHILDREN"

When you see kids running about in their club and county colours nowadays its a far cry from the days when this was forbidden in many areas.

THE GAA SHOULD BE PROUD TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THESE GREAT MEN.