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He was very average in my opinion and was protected by McGeeney and the blanket defence of armaghs half forwards. He was never going to be exposed being so well protected and he played on a cross team that were always practically unbeatable.

It depends what you consider average. For example, I would rate all Down players over the past 10 years as average. That being average, Francie is definitely well above average.

You can't honestly say McNulty showed Canavan up any time they crossed paths?

I can't think of any game where McNulty marked Canavan and did not have the measure of him.

Watching Peter Canavan and Kieran McKeever from Derry going head to head was a good honest battle.

That's funny. Careful Archie, you're starting to get very Mills & Boon-esque on us.

that would lead you to believe he knew what he was doing.

Ah, conjecture.

when he was up against a better opponent and stuck to the football, more often than not was caught out.

In much the same way that Peter Canavan was always "caught out" when he came up against Enda McNulty?

It may have been late, but he genuinely went for the ball and caught Toal after the ball was gone and was unfortunate the way things panned out. Francie on the other hand, deliberately went in late after he scored the point as S'ON had been giving him the run around for the whole game.

How do you know O'Neill genuinely went for the ball?
How do you know Francie deliberately went in late?

Francie Bellew Honours:
4 All-Ireland Club titles
7 Ulster SFC Club titles
13 Armagh SFC Club titles

1 All-Ireland SFC 2002
1 National Football League 2005
5 USFC 2002, '04, '05, '06, 08

1 Allstar 2003


By God there must be must a serious amount of exceptional footballers in Ireland if this man is only average.

she made a complete balls up in her introduction to the Cork V Wexford football report, saying the Corkmen had returned from strike action to-day. In fairness she apologised aftrewards and said that she was referring to the hurlers.

I noticed that too when were driving home. Seemed like a real amateur operation.

you should listen to jackie mccann reading the weather

I've have to mute or switch channel every time she comes on, she has a voice that would cut steel. I'd rather have tinfoil on my filings than listen to her!

My thoughts on the game for what they're worth. I'd agree with most of what the others have reported.

I'm generally an optimist, however I think a lot of people are letting the win on Sunday paper over the cracks. There is still a lot of work to be done and sill loads of room for improvement.

I thought Kildare were very poor, I couldn't believe how many times they tried to run through Armagh defenders and coughed up possession as result.

McEvoy made a couple of great saves, and his kick outs were the best from any Armagh keeper this season, which in turn contributed to Armagh's better midfield performance. However in the 2nd half he assumed a ball was going wide so left it; the ball actually hit the post and was recovered by a defender. A lucky let off! For a few kick outs Toner took up  a position and then the ball was kicked in the opposite direction. I don't know if there was a break down in their signals, but it is something to improve upon.

Toner had an excellent outing at midfield, he and Early had a right old battle. I would have said it was honours even, with Toner dominating more towards the end. Also Toner has learned to lay the ball back when there's a wall of opponents in front of him instead of trying to break through. Very encouraging performance.

I think Vernon is building with every game. I can't put my finger on the reason why, but I think Vernon is going to be immense. I've a feeling that he'll find his groove someday soon, and when he does he will become the fulcrum of the Armagh team.

I wouldn't be too quick to write off Lavery, I think he could be a useful back up option for midfield when he's back to full fitness.

For me the biggest improvement in midfield was that Armagh were winning more breakball.

Forker and Toal were the two men that won the game for Armagh against Fermanagh, yet neither featured yesterday which seems strange. I thought Forker, Toal and Henderson deserved at least 15 minutes ahead of the Kernans.

Good to see Donaghy back, more defensive options.

Finn Mo definitely struggled again yesterday; I too think he has lots to offer the team but perhaps in the half back line.

I don't think Brian Mallon is getting the credit he deserves. I thought he got through a torrent of work yesterday, and was involved in a lot attacks. He did kick a few bad passes, but he is a real worker.

I think Shannon and McClelland have both been acquitting themselves well. They're defenders first and foremost, fair enough the maybe don't get forward as much as AK would when he's in halfback, but they do a good defensive job.

Stevie had to come very deep at times yesterday, but he was involved a lot and his pass was generally good.

I also think KOR has great potential, and perhaps a few more games alongside Clarke will help their understanding.

Clarke is just sublime. Easily the best player on the pitch yesterday. He was always in front, won nearly every ball that came his way, and even won possession from poor passes. yesterday was the first game where his marker has not resorted to dragging him down.

I thought neither penalty decision was correct, and though Clarkes pass that was blown up for a throw ball was a perfectly legitimate pass.

The ref was poor (again), I think he got that hung up on trying to be consistent that he ended up being inconsistent. He seemed to favour one or other team for a spell. Decisions over the 70mins probably balanced out.

Again good to get the win that should at a minimum secure div 2 status.

PS God bless the Celtic Tiger and the EU... Armagh to Newbridge in under 2 hours.  

Gareth O'Neill got a lot of game time last year, and didn't really impress. He should be given a chance this year though to see if he has come along any. Would like to see Toner starting to see how he fares, he came on fresh last night after McGrath was gone. He definitely got involved straightaway but did get closed down very quickly by the opposition when he was in possession, just like he did many times during the championship last year. For a big lad Toner has difficultly breaking the tackle.

Monaghan keeper should have seen red.

Will video evidence be used against him?

Armagh have a lot if improving to do for the game on Sunday!  

Fermanagh pretty much at full strength

Aye dead on.   If you ignore the fact we were missing our two best backs (Owens and McCluskey), our midfielder / best performer in last years league (Murphy) as well as not having Shane McCabe, losing Marty McGrath relatively early on and losing one of our most in form players in the first ten minutes (Rory Foy).  Losing these players is, in relative terms, probably a bigger loss for Fermanagh than Armagh not having the Cross lads.  But aye you's beat Fermanagh's best team by a point. Well done.

Bit sensitive, aren't you? I perhaps should have qualified the "pretty much at full strength" comment by saying Fermanagh started pretty much at full strength. I thought it was a fair assumption to make that losing players through injury or yellow cards would clearly weaken the team. The only two Fermanagh players that I could think of that were missing were Owens and McCluskey. Forgot about Murphy, still 12 regular players from 15 is pretty much at full strength I would say. I thought McCabe had quit for the soccer, if so you can hardly count him?

Seriously though, is getting home after 10 on a Saturday night really a big deal?

It is if you have kids, or if you've done a days work. From south Armagh it's on the road to midnight before you're home from Enniskillen

As others have said the ref was awful. Ruined the game and gave some baffling decisions.

Ferm had very obviously decided to target McKeever with cynical tackles to provoke him. He took some heavy late tackles; including McGrath's for which mcGrath rightly saw yellow.

Ferm no 11, Keenan I think, landed a few blows on McKeever's face near the end of the game. Remarkably McKeever did not retaliate. Lines man ignored it.

Very poor game. Fermanagh pretty much at full strength and as usual their game plan is to spoil play and live off frees. Not pretty.

Armagh guilty of a serious amount of handling errors and loose passes. Armagh created only one goal chance which mallon blazed wide although a penalty was awarded. Couldn't work out what the penalty was for.

Armagh have nobody capable of taking a long range point. Continually trying to work the ball to the 21 yard line where they inevitably try to pass to man that is marked then loose possession.

I actually thought midfield was doing rightly, despite the usual problem of unpredictable kick outs. Lavery was working much harder, and made a few goal mouth catches helping out the defence. Charlie got through a mountain of work, and scored a nice point. He spills the ball quite a bit after doing well to win it.

When Toner came on he made a few clean catches and fought hard to win a few loose balls, but he has a frustrating knack of being slow to release it and ends up being bottled up and either gets blown for over carrying or gives the ball away. If he could improve on this he is a midfield contender.

Clarke takes some abuse over 70 mins. The full back was hanging off him all night and can have no complaints about seeing yellow. Clarke really is a class act, Armagh need to get him on the ball more.

All 5 first half points were from Stevie McDonnell, mainly from frees, though he missed a few from the right.

Henderson just never got going, but scored a nice point. Must be frustrating for him. I still think he has potential. Perhaps he is a sunny day, firm ground player?!? Kevin O'Rourke also had a quiet game, although again the quality of the ball going into the corners was poor.

Toal and, contrary to what other have said, Forker were both very lively when they came on. Forker won a couple of good balls and give an inch perfect cross field ball. He also scored a point that he worked hard for to put Armagh 10 - 9 up heading into the last few mins. Toal tagged on the next point to make it 11 - 9.

As others have said the Armagh full back line were 2nd to nearly every ball. Mallon is improving with each game, and got forward to help out the attack a few times tonight. He was involved in the build up to the goal chance.

Encouragingly I thought Shannon played well. He gave a few sloppy passes, but other than that I thought he played well.

AOR seems to be struggling for fitness/pace - he put the (dubious) penalty wide high and right. MOR gets through some work, passing let him down a few times. Still gets involved in too much silly nonsense and play acting.

Nice to get the win, albeit against a mediocre Fermanagh team. Encouraging signs that there will be real competition for places when all the missing players return.

Finally, disappointing turn out for Armagh supporters, although I guess the fact that it was going to leave most Armagh people home after 10 or 11 might explain that

Edit: Forgot to mention the unsporting behaviour of many of the Fermanagh fans - jeering Armagh wides and mistakes. Have to say have never encountered this much during NFL games from other counties. Mind you the Ferm supporter beside me did not know about the new yellow card rule and thought "too long" was when Armagh played several side way passes when trying to work the ball out of defence, so he was hardly a die hard GAA man. Good to see him taking an interest all the same!

I thought it was a very ppor game today, largely a scrappy afair.

I think a lot of peopl are being unduly harsh on Lavery and Vernon, especially the former. I think the big problem with Armagh's midfield performances is the inconsistent kickouts from the Armagh keeper. Neither Lavery or Vernon seemed at all sure of where the ball was going to directed, how high it would be kicked (therefore how long it woul hang in the air) so often ended up standing under the ball waiting for it to fall rather than attacking it.

It was frustrating to watch from Armagh point of view... Armagh seemed to labour trying to get the ball in, and often the quality of the ball being delivered to Henderson and Clarke was shocking... spining, dipping, too high, too low and often the Armagh half backs attempted to play a pass to man who was tightly marked.

I thought Vincent Martin was poor - he didn't seem to be alert, and was often 5 yards behind his man. Fin Mo had a poor day by his standards. McClelland had a good game.

Though Brian Mallon was playing well - suprised to see him taken off.

Stevie McDonnell had to come very deep to get the ball. Why play Clarke ar full forward if you're not to atleast test the full back by dropping some high balls in there for Clarke to win in the air?

Maybe I didn't see the McKeever incident clearly, seemed to me like he attempted to pull on a loose ball. It was a  wild kick, but did he actually connect with anybody? It didn't seem malicious, more a case of a fired up player trying to welly the ball as far up the field as he could.

I think Henderson can make it. He's a class finisher, but needs better service.

The trouble with all ticket games is that it is usually the so called fair weather fans that get the tickets, whilst fans that have followed their county team throughout the pre-season competitions and league are left without.

The new season ticket is a step in the right direction, however there are still too many restrictions on it to make it appealing to everyone. Take my own situation, I attend all matches and I take my da to as many games as he is fit to attend, if I got a season ticket I wouldn't be able to sit with him at many games as season ticket holders are placed in reserved seating. He needs me to be his eyes at the games, so there's no way I'd take a season ticket and leave him on his own.

(I did consider buying two season tickets, but I'm not exactly Rockefeller and as my da is a pensioner it would actually cost more for him than to pay at the gate).

There were many times more than 250 Armagh supporters that traveled down to Wexford for Sunday's game, those same supporters will be at all the Armagh league games, wouldn't it be a travesty if they missed the first round of the championship against the All-Ireland champions because of a shortage of tickets?

Having said that, Tyrone were drawn first and are entitled to home advantage. It's a tough call. The GAA/Ulster Council are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Move it to a bigger venue and they are accused of money grabbing, leave it in Omagh and they are accused of denying many thousands of people the opportunity to see the game.

The "bandwagon" thing always puzzles me, or rather peoples attitude to "bandwagon"/"sunshine supporters". Bandwagoners are sneered at and looked down upon, and yet if it weren't for them all championship matches and, indeed, the All-Ireland finals would be played in front of a few thousand "diehards".

Which do you think the players would prefer - running out on to Croke Park pitch in an All-Ireland final in front of a capacity 80,000 people or running out in front of 6,000 "real", "genuine" supporters?

Surely people with an interest in our games, whether it be total commitment or fleeting, should always be welcome?

Perhaps the decision on the Tyrone v Armagh 1st round game should be left with Tyrone. Home advantage is theirs to either exploit or to forego. I read Mickey Harte is in favour of moving to a larger venue in the interest of getting more supporters to the game.

Looks like it's going to be a lonely league campaign on here for me if no-one wants to talk about Wexford! 

I was going to offer a few thoughts on Wexford's performance, but decided against it as it is difficult not to sound condescending when the margin of Armagh's victory was as big as it was.

Obviously Wexford were missing a fair number of regulars, particular in defence and of course Mattie's absence was a big blow.

Armagh hit the ground running where as Wexford look a long time to get up to the speed of the game - perhaps that was due to Armagh's extended run in the McKenna Cup?

With the wind being such a big factor, Wexford would really have needed an 8 point cushion at half time. Bannville's shot off the crossbar - which I believe did actually cross the line - might have changed the complexion of the second half. It was certainly a big let off for Armagh.

Wexford also seemed to start going for goals very early - in fairness there were 2 or 3 attempts (not including Bannville's) that could have ended up in the back of the net.

Obviously Wexford are a much better team that their performance on Sunday would suggest, which I suppose is why most Armagh people are being cautious about reading too much into the result.

I thought Colfer was one of wexford's better players - he seemed to be involved a lot and took his goal well - especially since he had taken a bad thump to the head.

Hmm, none of that is  particularly insightful I know!