Ard Mhacha v Muineacháin - Athletic Grounds - 08/03/09

[The GAA]

The postives i can see coming out of today is that an armagh team with a very weak defence was able to be on the shoulder of a monaghan team almost at championship stength. i'll temper that by saying that my estimation of monaghan as championship contenders would be quite low.

The major stubling block with armagh is going to be along the line. they don't seem to be remotely near cool or calculating enough. few things i couldn't understand today... Why was Lavery left at midfield the whole game when he wasn't able to win any sort of ball and particularly not able to track the lumbering lennon? who thought it'd be a good idea to play a o'rourke full back and why was he not moved out when the half back line was clearly out of the game? why was stevie left at half forward when he couldn't get on the ball and certainly couldn't stey with mcmanus' runs?

The forward line as was there today has plenty of potential but didn't get enoguh ball. oover the 70 minutes we were outplayed in the middle third. why was m o'rourke always some distance to wher our kick outs were going when that is his forte - incidentally he had a shocker. clarke and kevin o'r were dangerous inside all day but for me henderson was hiding again for most of the game.

vernon is working hard and things didn't go his way but i cannot understand the lavery fascination. i don't see what he offers.

Is the current defence the worst to play national league football for armagh for 10 / 12 years? Martin and McClelland are so green its unreal and yet both are occupying central positions. both were poor but mcclelland in particular is miles off this standard. half backs are meant to be all things to all men. mark, tackle, cover, break out. mcclelland wins an odd dirty ball and thats it. Mallon needs a lot of game time as he looks rusty and moriarty is turning into a fouling machine.

a defence a defence, my kingdom for a defence!

[The GAA]

So you disagree that Barry Duffy could have been on the pitch before the Monaghan goal? By the way I mentioned 5 Cross lads. Neither the rules nor counting seem to be your strong point.

a yellow card replacement is not allowed on until after the next break in play - part of the punishment

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

So you disagree that Barry Duffy could have been on the pitch before the Monaghan goal? By the way I mentioned 5 Cross lads. Neither the rules nor counting seem to be your strong point.

a yellow card replacement is not allowed on until after the next break in play - part of the punishment

By the way, obviously there's a typo there and it should have been Paul Duffy.

I know the replacement isn't allowed on until the next break in play but there was a free given for Ciaran's kick and then another free a few seconds later when Paul Duffy should have been on but wasn't. Monaghan scored their goal from the resultant attack.

[pintsofguinness]

TACADOIR

You are dead right it is inexcusable that we were a man down when Monaghan scored their goal _It's time Mckeever caught himself on, or perhaps it is time he was dropped for a few games to teach him some discipline

For god sake how long have we been saying that for?

[Benny Barnaveld]

Lol a fouling machine! I like that, funny but very accurate!
As i mentioned in an earlier post, not all his fouls were captured, he got away with plenty. It has taken me a long time to see his worth but I think he is fairly established in the corner now. Think we are still in the market for a full back though.

Mallon needs a lot of game time as he looks rusty and moriarty is turning into a fouling machine.!

[mountainboii]

TACADOIR

You are dead right it is inexcusable that we were a man down when Monaghan scored their goal _It's time Mckeever caught himself on, or perhaps it is time he was dropped for a few games to teach him some discipline

For god sake how long have we been saying that for?

In fairness Pints, Crossfire is talking balls. McKeever's attempt for the ball was more silly and reckless rather than the result of any red mist setting in. To me it seemed more of an error in judgment rather than any sort of discipline issue.

[pintsofguinness]

TACADOIR

You are dead right it is inexcusable that we were a man down when Monaghan scored their goal _It's time Mckeever caught himself on, or perhaps it is time he was dropped for a few games to teach him some discipline

For god sake how long have we been saying that for?

In fairness Pints, Crossfire is talking balls. McKeever's attempt for the ball was more silly and reckless rather than the result of any red mist setting in. To me it seemed more of an error in judgment rather than any sort of discipline issue.

reckless, redmist whatever, we all know he's a complete liability - which is nothing new.

[Maguire01]

So you disagree that Barry Duffy could have been on the pitch before the Monaghan goal? By the way I mentioned 5 Cross lads. Neither the rules nor counting seem to be your strong point.

a yellow card replacement is not allowed on until after the next break in play - part of the punishment

By the way, obviously there's a typo there and it should have been Paul Duffy.

I know the replacement isn't allowed on until the next break in play but there was a free given for Ciaran's kick and then another free a few seconds later when Paul Duffy should have been on but wasn't. Monaghan scored their goal from the resultant attack.

So do you think that Monaghan's goal would have been much less likely had Armagh had 14 men on the field?

[mountainboii]

TACADOIR

You are dead right it is inexcusable that we were a man down when Monaghan scored their goal _It's time Mckeever caught himself on, or perhaps it is time he was dropped for a few games to teach him some discipline

For god sake how long have we been saying that for?

In fairness Pints, Crossfire is talking balls. McKeever's attempt for the ball was more silly and reckless rather than the result of any red mist setting in. To me it seemed more of an error in judgment rather than any sort of discipline issue.

reckless, redmist whatever, we all know he's a complete liability - which is nothing new.

He's also one of our top couple of players. Its laughable to suggest leaving him out of the team.

[HalfFitHalfBack]

I thought it was a very ppor game today, largely a scrappy afair.

I think a lot of peopl are being unduly harsh on Lavery and Vernon, especially the former. I think the big problem with Armagh's midfield performances is the inconsistent kickouts from the Armagh keeper. Neither Lavery or Vernon seemed at all sure of where the ball was going to directed, how high it would be kicked (therefore how long it woul hang in the air) so often ended up standing under the ball waiting for it to fall rather than attacking it.

It was frustrating to watch from Armagh point of view... Armagh seemed to labour trying to get the ball in, and often the quality of the ball being delivered to Henderson and Clarke was shocking... spining, dipping, too high, too low and often the Armagh half backs attempted to play a pass to man who was tightly marked.

I thought Vincent Martin was poor - he didn't seem to be alert, and was often 5 yards behind his man. Fin Mo had a poor day by his standards. McClelland had a good game.

Though Brian Mallon was playing well - suprised to see him taken off.

Stevie McDonnell had to come very deep to get the ball. Why play Clarke ar full forward if you're not to atleast test the full back by dropping some high balls in there for Clarke to win in the air?

Maybe I didn't see the McKeever incident clearly, seemed to me like he attempted to pull on a loose ball. It was a  wild kick, but did he actually connect with anybody? It didn't seem malicious, more a case of a fired up player trying to welly the ball as far up the field as he could.

I think Henderson can make it. He's a class finisher, but needs better service.

[Throw ball]

I have to agree with AFS in that McKeevers tackle was reckless rather than deliberate. In this case I think the new rules gave a fair sentence. The referee was well off the pace today and I believe he missed a couple of other incidents similar in recklessness to McKeevers and at least two I considered worse - one from each side. In the first half Clarke got awful abuse but hardly got a free. From a Monaghan point of view Hughes looks a terrific defender and much more of a footballing fullback than Corey who just keeps fouling when in there - he looks a much better footballer out the field.
Our full back line got destroyed and I think Finn Mo. would have found Freeman easier to handle than Hanratty based on previous experience. I thought McClelland had a good game although he faded when McKeever left. Shannon is a much better half back than full. Midfield improved on the last day. Lavery has been getting alot of criticism but as he has been out for a year and some midfielders do not develop until their mid twenties I would hold fire yet. Today I would have liked to have seen O'Neill replace him in the last ten to see if he had anything to offer - no use having him there and not giving him a chance. The forwards showed promise. Although Henderson did little I always get the feeling that if he gets a chance he will take it and that could prove useful later - maybe as a sub coming on when there is more space. Kevin O'Rourke looks the real bonus to come out of the matches so far. I thought Brian Mallon was having his best game in a while and wonder was he injured and that is why he was taken off. MOR is having a poor year and I think he and Mallon struggle to play together as they seem to be looking for the same runs. If John Mac does make a return I would like to see him, Toal and Mallon in the half forward line in a match to see if it would work. All in all though the result was better than expected even though we lost. I also keep wondering that if Toner and Donaghy had been fit would we be sitting with 4 or even 6 points now?
Finally back to the new rules. Many pro new rules pundits have stated that they are helping promote the skills of our game and reducing negative play. Having watched Armagh's last two matches I would tend to disagree. As defenders are now afraid to tackle will the tendency not be to play more men behind the ball to reduce space for runners while trying to hit on the break with fast nippy forwards. Even the big midfielder and the high catch could be reduced further. This was reinforced to me today by the amount of time Monaghan had three or four players around the man and how at times when Monaghan got the ball in their full back line Armagh players just seemed to turn and run into defensive positions. Mickey Harte may have complained yesterday but to me these rules would play right into Tyrone's hands in the summer!

[David McKeown]

In relation to Mallon going off, I thought he looked injured about 5 to 10 minutes before the substitution and certainly wasnt running at full pace so I assumed at the time that all though it looked like it was improving he was probably being taken off as a precaution.

[rootthemout]

happy enough with todays showing,in the league without the cross men it has given us a chance to look at what is on the panel come championship,kevin o rourke will prove to be the find i think,not convinced with henderson,lavery and some of our other panel players.if we can get injured players back and cross men focused still think we will be hard team to beat,my champonship 15
               rodgers
mallon       donaghy       mckeown

kernan       vernon        mckeever

   mcgrane  toner

mcclelland    mallon      toal

k orourke     clarke      mcdonnell

[mountainboii]

Finally back to the new rules. Many pro new rules pundits have stated that they are helping promote the skills of our game and reducing negative play. Having watched Armagh's last two matches I would tend to disagree. As defenders are now afraid to tackle will the tendency not be to play more men behind the ball to reduce space for runners while trying to hit on the break with fast nippy forwards. Even the big midfielder and the high catch could be reduced further. This was reinforced to me today by the amount of time Monaghan had three or four players around the man and how at times when Monaghan got the ball in their full back line Armagh players just seemed to turn and run into defensive positions. Mickey Harte may have complained yesterday but to me these rules would play right into Tyrone's hands in the summer!

Very good point.

The rules make each individual defender's job even more difficult (rightly or wrongly). So to combat this teams are naturally going to filter even more men back to protect their defence. Safety in numbers. You can't actually tackle anyone anymore so the next best thing to try is to crowd them out. I wonder did the brains behind the rules think of this eventuality when trying to transform the game into some sort of viewer friendly, b**tard, scorefest?

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

TACADOIR

You are dead right it is inexcusable that we were a man down when Monaghan scored their goal _It's time Mckeever caught himself on, or perhaps it is time he was dropped for a few games to teach him some discipline

For god sake how long have we been saying that for?

In fairness Pints, Crossfire is talking balls. McKeever's attempt for the ball was more silly and reckless rather than the result of any red mist setting in. To me it seemed more of an error in judgment rather than any sort of discipline issue.

reckless, redmist whatever, we all know he's a complete liability - which is nothing new.

No we don't "all know" that. You think it because you've had a vendetta against, and obsession with, Ciaran McKeever for years now. He's our best defender by some distance and whatever small chance we have of challenging for honours would be almost non-existent if he wasn't available.

So you disagree that Barry Duffy could have been on the pitch before the Monaghan goal? By the way I mentioned 5 Cross lads. Neither the rules nor counting seem to be your strong point.

a yellow card replacement is not allowed on until after the next break in play - part of the punishment

By the way, obviously there's a typo there and it should have been Paul Duffy.

I know the replacement isn't allowed on until the next break in play but there was a free given for Ciaran's kick and then another free a few seconds later when Paul Duffy should have been on but wasn't. Monaghan scored their goal from the resultant attack.

So do you think that Monaghan's goal would have been much less likely had Armagh had 14 men on the field?

I think with 6 backs rather than 5 we'd have had a better chance of keeping the goal out, yes.