In 2011 and 2013 they All Ireland marginally.
The last 2 years they are on a different planet physically to all teams .
Is the sport of inter county football sustainable if this continues . Many will say it is a phase but I am certain it is not as the dice is totally loaded in their favour :
- financial power
- population
- rural depopulation and urban growth
- ultra modern infrastructure.
- A pile of super clubs.
- Massive GAA funds pumped in .
Attendances will drop this year and it is really hard to drum up any enthusiasm for the summer ahead.
Any views??
Quote from: ashman on April 24, 2016, 05:17:08 PM
In 2011 and 2013 they All Ireland marginally.
The last 2 years they are on a different planet physically to all teams .
Is the sport of inter county football sustainable if this continues . Many will say it is a phase but I am certain it is not as the dice is totally loaded in their favour :
- financial power
- population
- rural depopulation and urban growth
- ultra modern infrastructure.
- A pile of super clubs.
- Massive GAA funds pumped in .
Attendances will drop this year and it is really hard to drum up any enthusiasm for the summer ahead.
Any views??
Yep try training a bit harder .
yeah, it would be far better if we went back to Kerry winning 3 and 4s in a row
Sure nobody watches hurling now given how dominant Kilkenny have been in the last decade or more
Who can stop Dublin? Or get within 5 of them?
"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"
They won't win 2 in a row. Leinster football is the problem. Meath, Kildare, Louth and Laois have all recently visited Division 3. Offaly are familiar with Division 4. None of them bother making an effort. Yeah the Dubs are great on their day but they often slip up. They are not as ruthless as they could be.
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 05:36:55 PM
They won't win 2 in a row. Leinster football is the problem. Meath, Kildare, Louth and Laois have all recently visited Division 3. Offaly are familiar with Division 4. None of them bother making an effort. Yeah the Dubs are great on their day but they often slip up. They are not as ruthless as they could be.
Yeah. They'll win a lot more than two in a row by the looks of things. AIG will be happy bunnies at least.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 24, 2016, 05:22:04 PM
Who can stop Dublin? Or get within 5 of them?
We're no better than last year and Mayo are no worse
Personally Mayo are the only team I fear, but things can change quickly, and when Kerry add O'Donoghue they'll close the gap for sure
There are certainly issues that need adressed though.
The deck stacked heavily in their favour in terms of population and funding, every game played at home and a completely uncompetitive provincial championship giving them a free pass though to the quarter final stage.
The lack of hope in other counties is a real killer too.
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 05:36:55 PM
They won't win 2 in a row. Leinster football is the problem. Meath, Kildare, Louth and Laois have all recently visited Division 3. Offaly are familiar with Division 4. None of them bother making an effort. Yeah the Dubs are great on their day but they often slip up. They are not as ruthless as they could be.
They comfortably beat Kerry and Donegal in their last two games and you think it's a Leinster problem! You are better than that.
It is beyond Leinster now . Good luck to Dublin , a fine team and a decent and humble bunch of lads.
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 05:36:55 PM
They won't win 2 in a row. Leinster football is the problem. Meath, Kildare, Louth and Laois have all recently visited Division 3. Offaly are familiar with Division 4. None of them bother making an effort. Yeah the Dubs are great on their day but they often slip up. They are not as ruthless as they could be.
22 games unbeaten. No ruthlessness there at all
Very good team hard to stop them Kerry old guard felt the heat today red card poor kick out aside Dublins Youngblood very good don't know who can stop them
Don't be getting too uptight lads. Dublin have always had the population, decent finances and big clubs. They are just going though a great period in their history and they happen to have in their squad right now some of the best players to represent the county in their history and when we look back in years to come indeed some of the best players to ever play the game Connolly, Brogan, Cluxton to name a few. These players won't go on forever and while they will be replaced by good good players they won't totally dominate like they do now.
Quote from: Karl Kennedy on April 24, 2016, 06:19:24 PM
Don't be getting too uptight lads. Dublin have always had the population, decent finances and big clubs. They are just going though a great period in their history and they happen to have in their squad right now some of the best players to represent the county in their history and when we look back in years to come indeed some of the best players to ever play the game Connolly, Brogan, Cluxton to name a few. These players won't go on forever and while they will be replaced by good good players they won't totally dominate like they do now.
Totally agree. Some way over the top whinging. Dublin are still well behind Kerry in the number of all Irelands won. They have a great team at the moment but are not unbeatable. Teams like kerry, mayo, donegal could all beat them on their day.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 05:36:55 PM
They won't win 2 in a row. Leinster football is the problem. Meath, Kildare, Louth and Laois have all recently visited Division 3. Offaly are familiar with Division 4. None of them bother making an effort. Yeah the Dubs are great on their day but they often slip up. They are not as ruthless as they could be.
They comfortably beat Kerry and Donegal in their last two games and you think it's a Leinster problem! You are better than that.
Leinster is a huge problem for the GAA. Dubs have 10 of the last 11. They are the best team since Throne 03 to 08 and would win stuff anyway but Leinster is abysmal.
And anyway it is only the league. I am pretty sure the Dubs won the league after their previous Sam and the board gave up and endorsed them to win 6 in a row and they were unbackable until they arsed up in August.
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 07:09:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 05:36:55 PM
They won't win 2 in a row. Leinster football is the problem. Meath, Kildare, Louth and Laois have all recently visited Division 3. Offaly are familiar with Division 4. None of them bother making an effort. Yeah the Dubs are great on their day but they often slip up. They are not as ruthless as they could be.
They comfortably beat Kerry and Donegal in their last two games and you think it's a Leinster problem! You are better than that.
Leinster is a huge problem for the GAA. Dubs have 10 of the last 11. They are the best team since Throne 03 to 08 and would win stuff anyway but Leinster is abysmal.
And anyway it is only the league. I am pretty sure the Dubs won the league after their previous Sam and the board gave up and endorsed them to win 6 in a row and they were unbackable until they arsed up in August.
3 titles in 5 years - we will take it. If our hit rate is one every two years we can live with it. ;D
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 07:32:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 07:09:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 05:36:55 PM
They won't win 2 in a row. Leinster football is the problem. Meath, Kildare, Louth and Laois have all recently visited Division 3. Offaly are familiar with Division 4. None of them bother making an effort. Yeah the Dubs are great on their day but they often slip up. They are not as ruthless as they could be.
They comfortably beat Kerry and Donegal in their last two games and you think it's a Leinster problem! You are better than that.
Leinster is a huge problem for the GAA. Dubs have 10 of the last 11. They are the best team since Throne 03 to 08 and would win stuff anyway but Leinster is abysmal.
And anyway it is only the league. I am pretty sure the Dubs won the league after their previous Sam and the board gave up and endorsed them to win 6 in a row and they were unbackable until they arsed up in August.
3 titles in 5 years - we will take it. If our hit rate is one every two years we can live with it. ;D
Dubs don't have the elixir of eternal youth either
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 07:32:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 07:09:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 24, 2016, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2016, 05:36:55 PM
They won't win 2 in a row. Leinster football is the problem. Meath, Kildare, Louth and Laois have all recently visited Division 3. Offaly are familiar with Division 4. None of them bother making an effort. Yeah the Dubs are great on their day but they often slip up. They are not as ruthless as they could be.
They comfortably beat Kerry and Donegal in their last two games and you think it's a Leinster problem! You are better than that.
Leinster is a huge problem for the GAA. Dubs have 10 of the last 11. They are the best team since Throne 03 to 08 and would win stuff anyway but Leinster is abysmal.
And anyway it is only the league. I am pretty sure the Dubs won the league after their previous Sam and the board gave up and endorsed them to win 6 in a row and they were unbackable until they arsed up in August.
3 titles in 5 years - we will take it. If our hit rate is one every two years we can live with it. ;D
Dubs don't have the elixir of eternal youth either
Not sure I'd agree we are definitely the most handsome team out there.
Er, Kerry x2, Donegal x2 and Mayo all lost in the league to Dublin this year. As Hound said Mayo may be the team capable of stopping Dublin, but everything would have to stack in Mayo's favour foe that to happen. That usually doesn't happen on the big stage.
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
A team of Donald Trumps would show them no respect, but they might need a bit more than that.
Quote from: muppet on April 24, 2016, 07:58:02 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
A team of Donald Trumps would show them no respect, but they might need a bit more than that.
Donald is an awful man for the hospital pass. I wouldn't play him
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
That ship sailed in 2008
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
That ship sailed in 2008
New team now. By respect I mean would have no fear. Not like these other clowns on here who seem to be shitting themselves over Dublin.we would have as good as devolpment structures as there is and if not this year then soon. Dublin is lucky that they have such a good bunch of players but give it a few years and the cycle will change
I'd be more worried about Derry reddening your checks there horse.
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
That ship sailed in 2008
New team now. By respect I mean would have no fear. Not like these other clowns on here who seem to be shitting themselves over Dublin.we would have as good as devolpment structures as there is and if not this year then soon. Dublin is lucky that they have such a good bunch of players but give it a few years and the cycle will change
It will change with a few retirees. I can see the field being very even between 5/6 counties in about 3-5 years. Leinster will be still a cesspit however
Quote from: bennydorano on April 24, 2016, 08:23:58 PM
I'd be more worried about Derry reddening your checks there horse.
This made me laugh. Sure the derry club season started there the other week and they've half the panel dropping out or clearing off to America. Tyrone will make wee boys out of them
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 24, 2016, 07:53:46 PM
Er, Kerry x2, Donegal x2 and Mayo all lost in the league to Dublin this year. As Hound said Mayo may be the team capable of stopping Dublin, but everything would have to stack in Mayo's favour foe that to happen. That usually doesn't happen on the big stage.
Of all the teams Mayo have the best athleticism to get near the Dubs.
Last year they were a lot closer to Dubs than Kerry but even the dice is loaded against them . 7 of their panel live in dublin and they have two midweek training trips .
Last year they drew with the Dubs on a Sunday and had to travel home that night ( those living in mayo). The replay was fixed for the following Saturday and they travelled to Dublin Friday night.
Quote from: ashman on April 24, 2016, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 24, 2016, 07:53:46 PM
Er, Kerry x2, Donegal x2 and Mayo all lost in the league to Dublin this year. As Hound said Mayo may be the team capable of stopping Dublin, but everything would have to stack in Mayo's favour foe that to happen. That usually doesn't happen on the big stage.
Of all the teams Mayo have the best athleticism to get near the Dubs.
Last year they were a lot closer to Dubs than Kerry but even the dice is loaded against them . 7 of their panel live in dublin and they have two midweek training trips .
Last year they drew with the Dubs on a Sunday and had to travel home that night ( those living in mayo). The replay was fixed for the following Saturday and they travelled to Dublin Friday night.
Now don't be making excuses. Sleeping in ones own bed the night before. Using the same dressing rooms. Warming up in from of the home crowd. Offer little or no advantage what so ever. If you are good enough you'll win away from home! Look at the statistics and they will tell you!
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 24, 2016, 08:57:47 PM
Quote from: ashman on April 24, 2016, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 24, 2016, 07:53:46 PM
Er, Kerry x2, Donegal x2 and Mayo all lost in the league to Dublin this year. As Hound said Mayo may be the team capable of stopping Dublin, but everything would have to stack in Mayo's favour foe that to happen. That usually doesn't happen on the big stage.
Of all the teams Mayo have the best athleticism to get near the Dubs.
Last year they were a lot closer to Dubs than Kerry but even the dice is loaded against them . 7 of their panel live in dublin and they have two midweek training trips .
Last year they drew with the Dubs on a Sunday and had to travel home that night ( those living in mayo). The replay was fixed for the following Saturday and they travelled to Dublin Friday night.
Now don't be making excuses. Sleeping in ones own bed the night before. Using the same dressing rooms. Warming up in from of the home crowd. Offer little or no advantage what so ever. If you are good enough you'll win away from home! Look at the statistics and they will tell you!
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/rampant-dublin-dismantle-mayo-in-castlebar-1.2141627
http://www.the42.ie/dublin-mayo-castlebar-2589254-Feb2016/
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
That ship sailed in 2008
New team now. By respect I mean would have no fear. Not like these other clowns on here who seem to be shitting themselves over Dublin.we would have as good as devolpment structures as there is and if not this year then soon. Dublin is lucky that they have such a good bunch of players but give it a few years and the cycle will change
It will change with a few retirees. I can see the field being very even between 5/6 counties in about 3-5 years. Leinster will be still a cesspit however
The dubs must have some great diet or some other such formula to do what they are doing!
I don't know what people are expecting?? Dublin have the population, the money, the facilities and all their games at home...
The question that should be asked is how come it took them so long to get their act together!!! They've won 3 in 5 years and the fact that for all their advantages they've only 7 in 40 is quite ridiculous... They will f**k up again though but I think it'll be 10/15 years until we see it happen!!! I can see them winning 7/10 10/15 over the next while!!!
Very impressed with Mannion for the Dubs today.
Scary forward options.
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2016, 11:17:59 PM
I don't know what people are expecting?? Dublin have the population, the money, the facilities and all their games at home...
The question that should be asked is how come it took them so long to get their act together!!! They've won 3 in 5 years and the fact that for all their advantages they've only 7 in 40 is quite ridiculous... They will f**k up again though but I think it'll be 10/15 years until we see it happen!!! I can see them winning 7/10 10/15 over the next while!!!
That's it. There have been game changers over the last couple of years. All of Dublins Home League games moving from Parnell Park to Croker. This set the ball rolling. Dublin did not have to wait until the Summer to get game practice there. Money! Most of what was thrown toward Hurling, but ended up with the big ball. They are the Celtic of Gaelic now! Imagine Celtic with all their important games at Parkhead. Can you imagine this advantage in any other Sport? That's the way it's set up, to sell corporate boxes to Big Dublin Business. To keep the Pubs busy on Dorset St and Drumcondra. There's Dublin sitting pretty in Croker, the rest of us take turns going to their home patch and try knocking them off their perch! Meanwhile we are sold this crazy line about how great it is to play in Croker and the Dubs don't really have an advantage playing all knockout games at home. ;D
When the GAA was founded Dublin was comparable with several counties, its population was only a bit bigger than other counties and a lot of those were in British Army barracks, TCD, and Unionist suburbs.
Now of course it has a population of the order of 10 times that of other "populous" counties, it is ridiculous and even Gerry Adams could hardly deny that there is an issue.
(http://s31.postimg.org/c9rm783gb/Dub_Ky_Mo.png)
Quote from: ashman on April 24, 2016, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 24, 2016, 07:53:46 PM
Er, Kerry x2, Donegal x2 and Mayo all lost in the league to Dublin this year. As Hound said Mayo may be the team capable of stopping Dublin, but everything would have to stack in Mayo's favour foe that to happen. That usually doesn't happen on the big stage.
Of all the teams Mayo have the best athleticism to get near the Dubs.
Last year they were a lot closer to Dubs than Kerry but even the dice is loaded against them . 7 of their panel live in dublin and they have two midweek training trips .
Last year they drew with the Dubs on a Sunday and had to travel home that night ( those living in mayo). The replay was fixed for the following Saturday and they travelled to Dublin Friday night.
It remains to be seen how Mayo kick on during the summer. How this new management can make a mark with this panel as well. Saying that, even if Mayo do get through Connacht and further and meet Dublin in September in rude good health, their chances would be slim.
Now maybe Rochford and McEntee might be more savvy. We ll see. But to beat this Dublin team in CP at the pinnacle of the championship would mean a team has to be much better than them on the day. Is that possible? This, after all, is the best Dublin team ever.
Today's game with Kerry was strange. Kerry were poor but Dublin gave them respect that they don t give others and could have put 20 on Kerry today if they cut loose. So maybe Kerry still the most likely team to catch them out - but hard to see it in fairness either.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 09:46:32 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
That ship sailed in 2008
New team now. By respect I mean would have no fear. Not like these other clowns on here who seem to be shitting themselves over Dublin.we would have as good as devolpment structures as there is and if not this year then soon. Dublin is lucky that they have such a good bunch of players but give it a few years and the cycle will change
It will change with a few retirees. I can see the field being very even between 5/6 counties in about 3-5 years. Leinster will be still a cesspit however
Can't see that happening. The imbalance between urban and rural areas, the capital in particular, will continue to grow at a steadily increasing pace. According to Marty Morrissey in a report on Ballyboden, the club fields over 50 teams. I mentioned this to a friend in Skerries and he told me that the Harps field over 70 teams! I'd wager that the dozen of Mayo's larger clubs wouldn't match that amount. Back in '91 (I think) a report commissioned by Central Council, stated that 5 Dublin clubs could field more underage players than any of five named counties. The situation has not gotten any better in the interim and that's for sure.
The main purpose of the report however was to examine and and assess the rate of fallout as younger players start to move up to the grades.
Dublin was by far the county with the highest drop out. Far more kids, percentage wise, joined GAA clubs than in any other county but the numbers leaving were equally well in front of any other county. Another big concern was that the percentage of those former players severed connection with the club they had played for.
I'd say that 90% plus of the population of Castlebar were solidly behind the Mitchels as they prepared for the final. The commission report referred to the penetration rate, the percentage of the local population that would support the local club.
Would the 'penetration rate' in Firhouse be in double figures? I very much doubt it. The GAA are losing their share of the market as it were, and nowhere as pronounced as in Dublin. The number of super clubs in Dublin is increasing while clubs in Mayo are amalgamating due to the effects of rural depopulation. There are many other counties in the same boat as Mayo and things are not going to change for any of them anytime soon.
If Dublin keep mopping up national titles while at the same time losing a larger and larger share of potential members and supporters, the outlook is bleak for the GAA in general.
Every time I listen to the News it's so many new jobs in Dublin.
FFS we haven't even got a bloody job bridge post round here.
Don't know how many pubs, shops and other businesses have gone in the last 5 years .
Farm prices have gone to fcuk and with no broadband we haven't a fcukn chance of picking up any passing or multi national trade.
Monster created in the East and will devour us all unless the "amateur" GAA steps in to even things up.
I concur with redzone, the only team that really has a chance of beating them is Tyrone.
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 25, 2016, 08:11:41 AM
I concur with redzone, the only team that really has a chance of beating them is Tyrone.
;D
Based on what? No disrespect to Tyrone they are going in the right direction. But who was their last big scalp? Monaghan? Winning a McKenna Cup and Division 2 Title means nothing. Do you think Tyrone would have fared better than Kerry yesterday? Kerry will be the closest. Up to the sending off they were in the game yesterday. They were missing JOD, Scanlon and Maher. Their fitness is different to what it will be in August.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 25, 2016, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on April 25, 2016, 08:11:41 AM
I concur with redzone, the only team that really has a chance of beating them is Tyrone.
;D
Based on what? No disrespect to Tyrone they are going in the right direction. But who was their last big scalp? Monaghan? Winning a McKenna Cup and Division 2 Title means nothing. Do you think Tyrone would have fared better than Kerry yesterday? Kerry will be the closest. Up to the sending off they were in the game yesterday. They were missing JOD, Scanlon and Maher. Their fitness is different to what it will be in August.
Kerry will be beaten in the AISF.
Mayo will beat the Dubs in the AIF. Something will happen in the dressing room at half time and all 6 forwards will score in the second half. Nobody will believe it. It will be like the last 10 minutes of the hurling in 94.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bceb42XNhOM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EdmHSTwmWY
The Dubs were unbackable in 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGU9kAtZ3CU
They can be beaten in a one off it's not like they're going to win 8/9 in a row or anything but I just think it's set up for them to dominate over the next 10/15 years!
Quote from: armaghniac on April 25, 2016, 12:30:27 AM
When the GAA was founded Dublin was comparable with several counties, its population was only a bit bigger than other counties and a lot of those were in British Army barracks, TCD, and Unionist suburbs.
Now of course it has a population of the order of 10 times that of other "populous" counties, it is ridiculous and even Gerry Adams could hardly deny that there is an issue.
(http://s31.postimg.org/c9rm783gb/Dub_Ky_Mo.png)
This is the key to it IMO. The money is a factor, it has to be otherwise why spend it? However, it isn't the key factor. You could spend all the money you want in the small counties and it wouldn't turn them into the Dubs. Any county with a big population advantage will, if they go about their business properly, do better than a smaller county and the Dubs have a massive advantage in that sense. That's the challenge for all other counties and I've limited sympathy for the counties that aren't getting the best out of themselves.
Clare just won the division 3 title with a lot less going for them than Kildare, Tipperary have a much better recent underage record than many football counties, Cavan and Monaghan are doing more with less than a lot of other counties. Some counties need to look at themselves before giving out about the Dubs or anyone else.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2016, 02:03:08 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 09:46:32 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
That ship sailed in 2008
New team now. By respect I mean would have no fear. Not like these other clowns on here who seem to be shitting themselves over Dublin.we would have as good as devolpment structures as there is and if not this year then soon. Dublin is lucky that they have such a good bunch of players but give it a few years and the cycle will change
It will change with a few retirees. I can see the field being very even between 5/6 counties in about 3-5 years. Leinster will be still a cesspit however
Can't see that happening. The imbalance between urban and rural areas, the capital in particular, will continue to grow at a steadily increasing pace. According to Marty Morrissey in a report on Ballyboden, the club fields over 50 teams. I mentioned this to a friend in Skerries and he told me that the Harps field over 70 teams! I'd wager that the dozen of Mayo's larger clubs wouldn't match that amount. Back in '91 (I think) a report commissioned by Central Council, stated that 5 Dublin clubs could field more underage players than any of five named counties. The situation has not gotten any better in the interim and that's for sure.
The main purpose of the report however was to examine and and assess the rate of fallout as younger players start to move up to the grades.
Dublin was by far the county with the highest drop out. Far more kids, percentage wise, joined GAA clubs than in any other county but the numbers leaving were equally well in front of any other county. Another big concern was that the percentage of those former players severed connection with the club they had played for.
I'd say that 90% plus of the population of Castlebar were solidly behind the Mitchels as they prepared for the final. The commission report referred to the penetration rate, the percentage of the local population that would support the local club.
Would the 'penetration rate' in Firhouse be in double figures? I very much doubt it. The GAA are losing their share of the market as it were, and nowhere as pronounced as in Dublin. The number of super clubs in Dublin is increasing while clubs in Mayo are amalgamating due to the effects of rural depopulation. There are many other counties in the same boat as Mayo and things are not going to change for any of them anytime soon.
If Dublin keep mopping up national titles while at the same time losing a larger and larger share of potential members and supporters, the outlook is bleak for the GAA in general.
Was driving around the area just before the club final and couldn't see ONE flag stuck out the window of a house. Apart from the flags and bunting outside their grounds you wouldn't have a clue anything was going on.
Good man seafoid. I hope you're right. ;D
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 10:24:23 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2016, 02:03:08 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 09:46:32 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
That ship sailed in 2008
New team now. By respect I mean would have no fear. Not like these other clowns on here who seem to be shitting themselves over Dublin.we would have as good as devolpment structures as there is and if not this year then soon. Dublin is lucky that they have such a good bunch of players but give it a few years and the cycle will change
It will change with a few retirees. I can see the field being very even between 5/6 counties in about 3-5 years. Leinster will be still a cesspit however
Can't see that happening. The imbalance between urban and rural areas, the capital in particular, will continue to grow at a steadily increasing pace. According to Marty Morrissey in a report on Ballyboden, the club fields over 50 teams. I mentioned this to a friend in Skerries and he told me that the Harps field over 70 teams! I'd wager that the dozen of Mayo's larger clubs wouldn't match that amount. Back in '91 (I think) a report commissioned by Central Council, stated that 5 Dublin clubs could field more underage players than any of five named counties. The situation has not gotten any better in the interim and that's for sure.
The main purpose of the report however was to examine and and assess the rate of fallout as younger players start to move up to the grades.
Dublin was by far the county with the highest drop out. Far more kids, percentage wise, joined GAA clubs than in any other county but the numbers leaving were equally well in front of any other county. Another big concern was that the percentage of those former players severed connection with the club they had played for.
I'd say that 90% plus of the population of Castlebar were solidly behind the Mitchels as they prepared for the final. The commission report referred to the penetration rate, the percentage of the local population that would support the local club.
Would the 'penetration rate' in Firhouse be in double figures? I very much doubt it. The GAA are losing their share of the market as it were, and nowhere as pronounced as in Dublin. The number of super clubs in Dublin is increasing while clubs in Mayo are amalgamating due to the effects of rural depopulation. There are many other counties in the same boat as Mayo and things are not going to change for any of them anytime soon.
If Dublin keep mopping up national titles while at the same time losing a larger and larger share of potential members and supporters, the outlook is bleak for the GAA in general.
Was driving around the area just before the club final and couldn't see ONE flag stuck out the window of a house. Apart from the flags and bunting outside their grounds you wouldn't have a clue anything was going on.
I saw plenty of flags around Rathfarnham.
Not buying that this is a special Dublin team and when a few of them retire they will come back into the pack. The last three Dubs to get Footballer of the Year, Jack McCaffrey (travelling), MDMA (a sub) and Alan Brogan (retired), haven't been involved much this year and they are head and shoulders above everyone else. It's their strength in depth that is their biggest asset. It was said by one of the Dunne family who were responsible for introducing heroin into Ireland that "If you think we were bad, just wait till you see what's coming after us." Well wait until you see what is coming down the Dublin production line, the inequality is only going to grow.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2016, 02:51:42 AM
Every time I listen to the News it's so many new jobs in Dublin.
FFS we haven't even got a bloody job bridge post round here.
Don't know how many pubs, shops and other businesses have gone in the last 5 years .
Farm prices have gone to fcuk and with no broadband we haven't a fcukn chance of picking up any passing or multi national trade.
Monster created in the East and will devour us all unless the "amateur" GAA steps in to even things up.
That is neoliberalism for you Rossfan . Everything gets centralised. Same in England with London.
Money goes to a small elite. But it is falling apart
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 10:44:39 AM
Well wait until you see what is coming down the Dublin production line, the inequality is only going to grow.
So how come they won't win the U-21 final this year?!
Quote from: screenexile on April 25, 2016, 10:10:27 AM
They can be beaten in a one off it's not like they're going to win 8/9 in a row or anything but I just think it's set up for them to dominate over the next 10/15 years!
No way. Galway will be back before then. Kerry will find their mojo. Throne will be in the mix. Meath might even resuscitate.
Quote from: blast05 on April 25, 2016, 10:55:20 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 10:44:39 AM
Well wait until you see what is coming down the Dublin production line, the inequality is only going to grow.
So how come they won't win the U-21 final this year?!
What's that got to do with Senior Football? If you can get 2/3 out of an U21 team each season that's more than enough to supplement the Senior team they already have!
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 25, 2016, 10:10:27 AM
They can be beaten in a one off it's not like they're going to win 8/9 in a row or anything but I just think it's set up for them to dominate over the next 10/15 years!
No way. Galway will be back before then. Kerry will find their mojo. Throne will be in the mix. Meath might even resuscitate.
And maybe they will win one and Kerry a few as well but the Dubs are going to be the new Kilkenny!
Kilkenny have 11/16 All Irelands and Hurling is fucked because of it. The game can't grow anywhere outside its main base because how is anyone from a non Hurling County going to have a chance at winning the big prize?
Quote from: blast05 on April 25, 2016, 10:55:20 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 10:44:39 AM
Well wait until you see what is coming down the Dublin production line, the inequality is only going to grow.
So how come they won't win the U-21 final this year?!
I'll say it again, Jim Gavin is managing the Dublin seniors. Not the u21s. If only people could see this. If Dublin continue to win games without breaking sweat when he goes, then I'll get worried.
Quote from: screenexile on April 25, 2016, 11:06:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 25, 2016, 10:10:27 AM
They can be beaten in a one off it's not like they're going to win 8/9 in a row or anything but I just think it's set up for them to dominate over the next 10/15 years!
No way. Galway will be back before then. Kerry will find their mojo. Throne will be in the mix. Meath might even resuscitate.
And maybe they will win one and Kerry a few as well but the Dubs are going to be the new Kilkenny!
Kilkenny have 11/16 All Irelands and Hurling is fucked because of it. The game can't grow anywhere outside its main base because how is anyone from a non Hurling County going to have a chance at winning the big prize?
Not quite the same situation, Kilkenny don't have an unfair advantage, other than perhaps not giving football any opportunity whatsoever. There is no reason why Cork, Tipp should match them any year (if those counties were well organised), and Clare, Waterford, Limerick, Galway, Wexford, Dublin, and even Offaly and Antrim in some years.
Quote from: blast05 on April 25, 2016, 10:55:20 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 10:44:39 AM
Well wait until you see what is coming down the Dublin production line, the inequality is only going to grow.
So how come they won't win the U-21 final this year?!
Because they were beaten by one point in the semi-final. Not a particularly strong age group but there are a couple there who will follow in Cormac Costello and Brian Fentons footprints, challenge for a starting spot and increase the strength in depth.
Quote from: screenexile on April 25, 2016, 11:06:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 25, 2016, 10:10:27 AM
They can be beaten in a one off it's not like they're going to win 8/9 in a row or anything but I just think it's set up for them to dominate over the next 10/15 years!
No way. Galway will be back before then. Kerry will find their mojo. Throne will be in the mix. Meath might even resuscitate.
And maybe they will win one and Kerry a few as well but the Dubs are going to be the new Kilkenny!
Kilkenny have 11/16 All Irelands and Hurling is fucked because of it. The game can't grow anywhere outside its main base because how is anyone from a non Hurling County going to have a chance at winning the big prize?
The Dubs have won 4 all Irelands in the last 25 years.
The skill barriers to entry are lower in football so it won't turn out the same as hurling imo
If Jim Gavin could swap any player on the Dublin team for a player from another county that would make Dublin significantly stronger how many players would he swap? Michael Murphy would get in, Conor McManus might be there or there abouts but they already have Brogan, Dean Rock, Ciaran Kilkenny .. in the forward line. Midfield they have Michael Dara Macauley coming on as sub. It's pretty scary the strength in depth that Dublin have.
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 11:27:39 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 25, 2016, 11:06:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 25, 2016, 10:10:27 AM
They can be beaten in a one off it's not like they're going to win 8/9 in a row or anything but I just think it's set up for them to dominate over the next 10/15 years!
No way. Galway will be back before then. Kerry will find their mojo. Throne will be in the mix. Meath might even resuscitate.
And maybe they will win one and Kerry a few as well but the Dubs are going to be the new Kilkenny!
Kilkenny have 11/16 All Irelands and Hurling is fucked because of it. The game can't grow anywhere outside its main base because how is anyone from a non Hurling County going to have a chance at winning the big prize?
The Dubs have won 4 all Irelands in the last 25 years.
The skill barriers to entry are lower in football so it won't turn out the same as hurling imo
Nonsense... lads in Clare/Tipperary/Cork/Waterford/Galway are as skilful as the lads in Kilkenny. Yes it's not the same situation as Dublin of course as Kilkenny's is less about money/home games/population and more to do with Cody but the end result is the same in that a team is dominating!!
Kilkenny are dominating as another blind eye is turned to their non promotion of football. They pour all their resources and money into hurling, not a fair situation either.
As much as it kills me to defend the Dubs, at least they are dominating in style.
Some of the football they played yesterday was a joy to watch.
There was one score in particular where they worked it down the Cusack side, a long ball was kicked into the FF line, Brogan fielded it cleanly over Marc O'Sé, turned and stuck it over the bar with his left foot.
I'd watch that sort of football all day.
Now, if they were dominating the game using a Donegal-style system, I'd be worried for the future.
And before anyone says the Dubs are just as defensive as any other team, for me they a great testament to the age old adage, "When we don't have the ball everyone is a defender, when we do have the ball everyone is an attacker".
For me, the closest team to them in playing style at the moment is Tyrone, however, I still think Mayo are the only team who can put it up to them this year.
One thing that was very apparent yesterday was they absolutely have Kerry's number. It's over. The frustration levels of the Kerry lads was quite stark. From Donaghy's constant flailing (although he often does that) to things like Gooch berating his team mates, Darran O'Sullivan pulling and dragging, and then just hunched on his knees waiting for what he probably thought was a black card. Then Sheehan's spat with Paul Flynn afterwards.
Kerry have been beaten before, they've been annoyed before, but even in that Tyrone hoodoo era, they never looked so deflated to me.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 25, 2016, 12:10:05 PM
One thing that was very apparent yesterday was they absolutely have Kerry's number. It's over. The frustration levels of the Kerry lads was quite stark. From Donaghy's constant flailing (although he often does that) to things like Gooch berating his team mates, Darran O'Sullivan pulling and dragging, and then just hunched on his knees waiting for what he probably thought was a black card. Then Sheehan's spat with Paul Flynn afterwards.
Kerry have been beaten before, they've been annoyed before, but even in that Tyrone hoodoo era, they never looked so deflated to me.
Kerry have been in decline for a while. Of their last few all Irelands 2 were won beating Cork and 2 beating Mayo, neither of which are ever likely to beat Kerry in an AIF given psychological issues.
They have failed to beat either Tyrone or Dublin in recent finals.
There's undoubtedly a good chance the Dubs will dominate for a good number of years as they won't need 10 good lads coming through but only 3 or 4 every few years and Con O'Callaghan is another forward on the production line at least. Kerry could go back before they go forward when O'Se, O'Mahoney, Gooch etc. leave the scene. But as Jinxy said, they are a joy to watch and a team that are very hard to dislike if you enjoy football.
Zulu
A fair point and all Dublin really need going forward is 2 from each u21 to push on .
My point is not anti Dublin per se but more the sustainability of IC football .
The Dublin team are on another level physically to any side in the GAA history. The dice is loaded . There is no beauty in the current situation where the sport is not competitive.
Yesterday is a close as it will get for at least 5 years . Of course there might be an occasional ambush but in the main the AISF is going to be as competitive as the Armagh SFC in the coming years.
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Looked to me like they came together and O'Mahoney was drawing back his right arm just as they went out of shot.
Are the Dubs fitter/more physical than Donegal were in 2012 or Tyrone in 2005?
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 12:40:32 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 25, 2016, 12:10:05 PM
One thing that was very apparent yesterday was they absolutely have Kerry's number. It's over. The frustration levels of the Kerry lads was quite stark. From Donaghy's constant flailing (although he often does that) to things like Gooch berating his team mates, Darran O'Sullivan pulling and dragging, and then just hunched on his knees waiting for what he probably thought was a black card. Then Sheehan's spat with Paul Flynn afterwards.
Kerry have been beaten before, they've been annoyed before, but even in that Tyrone hoodoo era, they never looked so deflated to me.
Kerry have been in decline for a while. Of their last few all Irelands 2 were won beating Cork and 2 beating Mayo, neither of which are ever likely to beat Kerry in an AIF given psychological issues.
They have failed to beat either Tyrone or Dublin in recent finals.
2008 in the scheme of things is not a recent final.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 25, 2016, 01:44:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 12:40:32 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 25, 2016, 12:10:05 PM
One thing that was very apparent yesterday was they absolutely have Kerry's number. It's over. The frustration levels of the Kerry lads was quite stark. From Donaghy's constant flailing (although he often does that) to things like Gooch berating his team mates, Darran O'Sullivan pulling and dragging, and then just hunched on his knees waiting for what he probably thought was a black card. Then Sheehan's spat with Paul Flynn afterwards.
Kerry have been beaten before, they've been annoyed before, but even in that Tyrone hoodoo era, they never looked so deflated to me.
Kerry have been in decline for a while. Of their last few all Irelands 2 were won beating Cork and 2 beating Mayo, neither of which are ever likely to beat Kerry in an AIF given psychological issues.
They have failed to beat either Tyrone or Dublin in recent finals.
2008 in the scheme of things is not a recent final.
I had to go back to 2004 for the last 5 Kerry all Ireland wins because they can't beat the Dubs
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
And yet no team has won a back to back All-Ireland since Cork in 1990? Let them achieve that first before we even start to worry about a crisis in our game.
Edit: Kerry in 2007.
The Dubs are number 2 in Sams won and had a bad run for about 25 years post 1983 . 4 all Irelands including 95 is less than the long term average.
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 01:28:28 PM
Are the Dubs fitter/more physical than Donegal were in 2012 or Tyrone in 2005?
Definitely more physical and fitter than Tyrone 2005... Donegal I'm not so sure but Donegal's age demographic and lack of depth has meant they were unable to sustain it for more than one season.
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
Message from Arnold on the current Dublin senior football team.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K-STYUTGbDU
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
I know they started from a lower base in the hurling, but they don't look like dominating it any time soon.
They're now reasonably competitive, but that's the same as half a dozen other hurling counties and I'd include Cork in that!
There's only so much a gym program will bring your hurling on 8)
The hurlers need more money.
The only reason they aren't much further up the pecking order in hurling is that the best young hurlers go to football. If they picked hurling Dublin would probably be only behind Kilkenny.
There should undoubtedly be targeted funding for other counties, starting with the bigger ones, but many of them still have to ask themselves why they're so far off the standard of Dublin.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Sweeney concludes that Dublin cannot be split up which is missing the point.
It is desirable that there be a lot of people playing GAA in Dublin and the application of funding to achieve that is perfectly reasonable. What is not fair is that this large number of people playing is aggregated into population units, either club or county, which creates teams that distort national competitions.
And of course other counties too need to get their act together, which doesn't negate the above point.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
You've got another stalker Dinny https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968 (https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968)
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 05:06:11 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
You've got another stalker Dinny https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968 (https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968)
He's a Mayo man living in Kildare, does a lot of good work on the GAA PR scene in North Kildare. He's just another anti-dub.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 25, 2016, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Sweeney concludes that Dublin cannot be split up which is missing the point.
It is desirable that there be a lot of people playing GAA in Dublin and the application of funding to achieve that is perfectly reasonable. What is not fair is that this large number of people playing is aggregated into population units, either club or county, which creates teams that distort national competitions.
And of course other counties too need to get their act together, which doesn't negate the above point.
I think, to be fair to everyone, we should split all of the counties that have won Sam since 2000.
And Roscommon, just in case like.
Quote from: muppet on April 25, 2016, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 25, 2016, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Sweeney concludes that Dublin cannot be split up which is missing the point.
It is desirable that there be a lot of people playing GAA in Dublin and the application of funding to achieve that is perfectly reasonable. What is not fair is that this large number of people playing is aggregated into population units, either club or county, which creates teams that distort national competitions.
And of course other counties too need to get their act together, which doesn't negate the above point.
I think, to be fair to everyone, we should split all of the counties that have won Sam since 2000.
And Roscommon, just in case like.
I'd actually be in favour of amalgamating Roscommon and Mayo. Mosco has a nice ring to it.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 05:35:31 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 05:06:11 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
You've got another stalker Dinny https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968 (https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968)
He's a Mayo man living in Kildare, does a lot of good work on the GAA PR scene in North Kildare. He's just another anti-dub.
I could be wrong on this but I think Cormac is back living in Mayo now.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 25, 2016, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 05:35:31 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 05:06:11 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
You've got another stalker Dinny https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968 (https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968)
He's a Mayo man living in Kildare, does a lot of good work on the GAA PR scene in North Kildare. He's just another anti-dub.
I could be wrong on this but I think Cormac is back living in Mayo now.
What did he do to deserve that?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 05:58:13 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 25, 2016, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 05:35:31 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 05:06:11 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
You've got another stalker Dinny https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968 (https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968)
He's a Mayo man living in Kildare, does a lot of good work on the GAA PR scene in North Kildare. He's just another anti-dub.
I could be wrong on this but I think Cormac is back living in Mayo now.
What did he do to deserve that?
There are too many Dubs moving out to north Kildare driving up rents and house prices which is squeezing the poor country migrants out of the market.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 25, 2016, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 05:58:13 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 25, 2016, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 05:35:31 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 05:06:11 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
You've got another stalker Dinny https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968 (https://twitter.com/cormacpro/status/724623483465043968)
He's a Mayo man living in Kildare, does a lot of good work on the GAA PR scene in North Kildare. He's just another anti-dub.
I could be wrong on this but I think Cormac is back living in Mayo now.
What did he do to deserve that?
There are too many Dubs moving out to north Kildare driving up rents and house prices which is squeezing the poor country migrants out of the market.
Dubs and their money, is there no end to it..
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
Nobody is more consistent about whingeing then Kildare fans Dinny.
Quote from: ashman on April 25, 2016, 12:57:23 PM
Zulu
A fair point and all Dublin really need going forward is 2 from each u21 to push on .
My point is not anti Dublin per se but more the sustainability of IC football .
The Dublin team are on another level physically to any side in the GAA history. The dice is loaded . There is no beauty in the current situation where the sport is not competitive.
Yesterday is a close as it will get for at least 5 years . Of course there might be an occasional ambush but in the main the AISF is going to be as competitive as the Armagh SFC in the coming years.
Dublin have been doing one pitch session one gym session a week during the league. They train less then everyone else.
I've no idea what half the counties do when they train 6 days a week.
We're not allowed have a great team. Only Kerry and Kilkenny are.
Kilkenny' dominance is greater then any other sports team in the world yet no word of it here
Doesn't suit the agenda
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 05:53:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 25, 2016, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 25, 2016, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Sweeney concludes that Dublin cannot be split up which is missing the point.
It is desirable that there be a lot of people playing GAA in Dublin and the application of funding to achieve that is perfectly reasonable. What is not fair is that this large number of people playing is aggregated into population units, either club or county, which creates teams that distort national competitions.
And of course other counties too need to get their act together, which doesn't negate the above point.
I think, to be fair to everyone, we should split all of the counties that have won Sam since 2000.
And Roscommon, just in case like.
I'd actually be in favour of amalgamating Roscommon and Mayo. Mosco has a nice ring to it.
Kildare and Mayo would be a good merger
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2016, 06:46:56 PM
We're not allowed have a great team. Only Kerry and Kilkenny are.
Kilkenny' dominance is greater then any other sports team in the world yet no word of it here
Doesn't suit the agenda
Kilkenny hasn't got 1.3 m of a population, doesn't get more funds than the other 31 Counties put together, don't get 80% of their games in Nowlan Park.........and anyway it's only oul Hurley stuff.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2016, 06:46:56 PM
Quote from: ashman on April 25, 2016, 12:57:23 PM
Zulu
A fair point and all Dublin really need going forward is 2 from each u21 to push on .
My point is not anti Dublin per se but more the sustainability of IC football .
The Dublin team are on another level physically to any side in the GAA history. The dice is loaded . There is no beauty in the current situation where the sport is not competitive.
Yesterday is a close as it will get for at least 5 years . Of course there might be an occasional ambush but in the main the AISF is going to be as competitive as the Armagh SFC in the coming years.
Dublin have been doing one pitch session one gym session a week during the league. They train less then everyone else.
I've no idea what half the counties do when they train 6 days a week.
We're not allowed have a great team. Only Kerry and Kilkenny are.
Kilkenny' dominance is greater then any other sports team in the world yet no word of it here
Doesn't suit the agenda
the Dubs should have won 3 in a
I always enjoy watching oul Bernard Brogan on tsg
I love the Dub reaction. Very Herald ie "begrudgery" or like the line from welcome to St Tropez. Haters keep hating, f#cking these models.
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 05:53:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 25, 2016, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 25, 2016, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Sweeney concludes that Dublin cannot be split up which is missing the point.
It is desirable that there be a lot of people playing GAA in Dublin and the application of funding to achieve that is perfectly reasonable. What is not fair is that this large number of people playing is aggregated into population units, either club or county, which creates teams that distort national competitions.
And of course other counties too need to get their act together, which doesn't negate the above point.
I think, to be fair to everyone, we should split all of the counties that have won Sam since 2000.
And Roscommon, just in case like.
I'd actually be in favour of amalgamating Roscommon and Mayo. Mosco has a nice ring to it.
Kildare and Mayo would be a good merger
So would Waterford and Galway in Hurling! :P
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2016, 10:42:13 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 10:24:23 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2016, 02:03:08 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 09:46:32 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
That ship sailed in 2008
New team now. By respect I mean would have no fear. Not like these other clowns on here who seem to be shitting themselves over Dublin.we would have as good as devolpment structures as there is and if not this year then soon. Dublin is lucky that they have such a good bunch of players but give it a few years and the cycle will change
It will change with a few retirees. I can see the field being very even between 5/6 counties in about 3-5 years. Leinster will be still a cesspit however
Can't see that happening. The imbalance between urban and rural areas, the capital in particular, will continue to grow at a steadily increasing pace. According to Marty Morrissey in a report on Ballyboden, the club fields over 50 teams. I mentioned this to a friend in Skerries and he told me that the Harps field over 70 teams! I'd wager that the dozen of Mayo's larger clubs wouldn't match that amount. Back in '91 (I think) a report commissioned by Central Council, stated that 5 Dublin clubs could field more underage players than any of five named counties. The situation has not gotten any better in the interim and that's for sure.
The main purpose of the report however was to examine and and assess the rate of fallout as younger players start to move up to the grades.
Dublin was by far the county with the highest drop out. Far more kids, percentage wise, joined GAA clubs than in any other county but the numbers leaving were equally well in front of any other county. Another big concern was that the percentage of those former players severed connection with the club they had played for.
I'd say that 90% plus of the population of Castlebar were solidly behind the Mitchels as they prepared for the final. The commission report referred to the penetration rate, the percentage of the local population that would support the local club.
Would the 'penetration rate' in Firhouse be in double figures? I very much doubt it. The GAA are losing their share of the market as it were, and nowhere as pronounced as in Dublin. The number of super clubs in Dublin is increasing while clubs in Mayo are amalgamating due to the effects of rural depopulation. There are many other counties in the same boat as Mayo and things are not going to change for any of them anytime soon.
If Dublin keep mopping up national titles while at the same time losing a larger and larger share of potential members and supporters, the outlook is bleak for the GAA in general.
Was driving around the area just before the club final and couldn't see ONE flag stuck out the window of a house. Apart from the flags and bunting outside their grounds you wouldn't have a clue anything was going on.
I saw plenty of flags around Rathfarnham.
`There was bound to be plenty of flags and bunting in some places as Boden is a big club but as Croi says, he was driving about the area and failed to see any. I mentioned Firhouse, in Boden's catchment region, as I have a nephew there who played underage hurling with the club and was a mad supporter in his younger days. Four or five of his mates played there with him so I expected to see a good few houses with Boden's colours but not a single one was to be seen.
The nephew doesn't dislike the club and he'd class himself as a Dub supporter but wearing a Dub jersey and heading to the pub to meet up with his mates whenever a Dublin match is televised is about as far as it goes for him.
Once one of his crowd dropped out, the rest followed suit and I know none of them bothers going near the club, let alone support it in any way. Needless, to say neither any of parents nor neighbours have the same sense of identification with the local club as you'll find in the small rural areas like Castlebar.
My point is that while, Boden is a successful club with a large number of members, it's share of the total market of potential supporters is slipping. When you realise that this is happening onn a county-wide scale, it's time to start worrying a bit....
Short term, doesn't matter...mid-term, maybe time to see what can be done... long-term, a niche sport for an elitist minority.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 25, 2016, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2016, 06:46:56 PM
We're not allowed have a great team. Only Kerry and Kilkenny are.
Kilkenny' dominance is greater then any other sports team in the world yet no word of it here
Doesn't suit the agenda
Kilkenny hasn't got 1.3 m of a population, doesn't get more funds than the other 31 Counties put together, don't get 80% of their games in Nowlan Park.........and anyway it's only oul Hurley stuff.
We could play all our games in Nowlan Park we'd still win. It's what great teams do.
But even great teams have a shelf life.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2016, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2016, 10:42:13 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 10:24:23 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2016, 02:03:08 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 09:46:32 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
That ship sailed in 2008
New team now. By respect I mean would have no fear. Not like these other clowns on here who seem to be shitting themselves over Dublin.we would have as good as devolpment structures as there is and if not this year then soon. Dublin is lucky that they have such a good bunch of players but give it a few years and the cycle will change
It will change with a few retirees. I can see the field being very even between 5/6 counties in about 3-5 years. Leinster will be still a cesspit however
Can't see that happening. The imbalance between urban and rural areas, the capital in particular, will continue to grow at a steadily increasing pace. According to Marty Morrissey in a report on Ballyboden, the club fields over 50 teams. I mentioned this to a friend in Skerries and he told me that the Harps field over 70 teams! I'd wager that the dozen of Mayo's larger clubs wouldn't match that amount. Back in '91 (I think) a report commissioned by Central Council, stated that 5 Dublin clubs could field more underage players than any of five named counties. The situation has not gotten any better in the interim and that's for sure.
The main purpose of the report however was to examine and and assess the rate of fallout as younger players start to move up to the grades.
Dublin was by far the county with the highest drop out. Far more kids, percentage wise, joined GAA clubs than in any other county but the numbers leaving were equally well in front of any other county. Another big concern was that the percentage of those former players severed connection with the club they had played for.
I'd say that 90% plus of the population of Castlebar were solidly behind the Mitchels as they prepared for the final. The commission report referred to the penetration rate, the percentage of the local population that would support the local club.
Would the 'penetration rate' in Firhouse be in double figures? I very much doubt it. The GAA are losing their share of the market as it were, and nowhere as pronounced as in Dublin. The number of super clubs in Dublin is increasing while clubs in Mayo are amalgamating due to the effects of rural depopulation. There are many other counties in the same boat as Mayo and things are not going to change for any of them anytime soon.
If Dublin keep mopping up national titles while at the same time losing a larger and larger share of potential members and supporters, the outlook is bleak for the GAA in general.
Was driving around the area just before the club final and couldn't see ONE flag stuck out the window of a house. Apart from the flags and bunting outside their grounds you wouldn't have a clue anything was going on.
I saw plenty of flags around Rathfarnham.
`There was bound to be plenty of flags and bunting in some places as Boden is a big club but as Croi says, he was driving about the area and failed to see any. I mentioned Firhouse, in Boden's catchment region, as I have a nephew there who played underage hurling with the club and was a mad supporter in his younger days. Four or five of his mates played there with him so I expected to see a good few houses with Boden's colours but not a single one was to be seen.
The nephew doesn't dislike the club and he'd class himself as a Dub supporter but wearing a Dub jersey and heading to the pub to meet up with his mates whenever a Dublin match is televised is about as far as it goes for him.
Once one of his crowd dropped out, the rest followed suit and I know none of them bothers going near the club, let alone support it in any way. Needless, to say neither any of parents nor neighbours have the same sense of identification with the local club as you'll find in the small rural areas like Castlebar.
My point is that while, Boden is a successful club with a large number of members, it's share of the total market of potential supporters is slipping. When you realise that this is happening onn a county-wide scale, it's time to start worrying a bit....
Short term, doesn't matter...mid-term, maybe time to see what can be done... long-term, a niche sport for an elitist minority.
Boden hasn't got enough pitches to service the demand. Country people always make the mistake that GAA clubs can't survive in a large urban setting. They don't just survive - they thrive and are as closely knit as any rural parish.
Rugby has all the market penetration of sex under a wheelbarrow in Dublin if the truth be told. Nobody plays it after 18. GAA is king.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
One of the comments says several U14 Dublin club teams went to Portugal for a week warm weather training before feile. Surely that can't be true.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2016, 10:52:27 PM
Boden hasn't got enough pitches to service the demand. Country people always make the mistake that GAA clubs can't survive in a large urban setting.
That suggests they are too big. Time to split them up.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2016, 06:46:56 PM
Quote from: ashman on April 25, 2016, 12:57:23 PM
Zulu
A fair point and all Dublin really need going forward is 2 from each u21 to push on .
My point is not anti Dublin per se but more the sustainability of IC football .
The Dublin team are on another level physically to any side in the GAA history. The dice is loaded . There is no beauty in the current situation where the sport is not competitive.
Yesterday is a close as it will get for at least 5 years . Of course there might be an occasional ambush but in the main the AISF is going to be as competitive as the Armagh SFC in the coming years.
Dublin have been doing one pitch session one gym session a week during the league. They train less then everyone else.
I've no idea what half the counties do when they train 6 days a week.
We're not allowed have a great team. Only Kerry and Kilkenny are.
Kilkenny' dominance is greater then any other sports team in the world yet no word of it here
Doesn't suit the agenda
AHEM!!!
Quote from: screenexile on April 25, 2016, 11:06:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 25, 2016, 10:10:27 AM
They can be beaten in a one off it's not like they're going to win 8/9 in a row or anything but I just think it's set up for them to dominate over the next 10/15 years!
No way. Galway will be back before then. Kerry will find their mojo. Throne will be in the mix. Meath might even resuscitate.
And maybe they will win one and Kerry a few as well but the Dubs are going to be the new Kilkenny!
Kilkenny have 11/16 All Irelands and Hurling is fucked because of it. The game can't grow anywhere outside its main base because how is anyone from a non Hurling County going to have a chance at winning the big prize?
Clare will win the hurling this year.
Kilkenny's period of dominance is over.
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2016, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 05:53:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 25, 2016, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 25, 2016, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Sweeney concludes that Dublin cannot be split up which is missing the point.
It is desirable that there be a lot of people playing GAA in Dublin and the application of funding to achieve that is perfectly reasonable. What is not fair is that this large number of people playing is aggregated into population units, either club or county, which creates teams that distort national competitions.
And of course other counties too need to get their act together, which doesn't negate the above point.
I think, to be fair to everyone, we should split all of the counties that have won Sam since 2000.
And Roscommon, just in case like.
I'd actually be in favour of amalgamating Roscommon and Mayo. Mosco has a nice ring to it.
Kildare and Mayo would be a good merger
Clare & Down?
Quote from: angermanagement on April 25, 2016, 11:02:32 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
One of the comments says several U14 Dublin club teams went to Portugal for a week warm weather training before feile. Surely that can't be true.
Nope. One team went after winning the Dublin Feile iirc. Funded it themselves. Not from one of the affluent areas of the city also.
Certainly eyebrows were raised, but afaik it was never done since or before.
Was definitely frowned upon
I thought Brigids did something mental like that a few years ago. I know they sent a 'dummy' team to march in the parade, while the players were tucked up preparing for their first match :)
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2016, 06:46:56 PM
Quote from: ashman on April 25, 2016, 12:57:23 PM
Zulu
A fair point and all Dublin really need going forward is 2 from each u21 to push on .
My point is not anti Dublin per se but more the sustainability of IC football .
The Dublin team are on another level physically to any side in the GAA history. The dice is loaded . There is no beauty in the current situation where the sport is not competitive.
Yesterday is a close as it will get for at least 5 years . Of course there might be an occasional ambush but in the main the AISF is going to be as competitive as the Armagh SFC in the coming years.
Dublin have been doing one pitch session one gym session a week during the league. They train less then everyone else.
I've no idea what half the counties do when they train 6 days a week.
We're not allowed have a great team. Only Kerry and Kilkenny are.
Kilkenny' dominance is greater then any other sports team in the world yet no word of it here
Doesn't suit the agenda
Plenty of words if you bothered to read them.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 25, 2016, 11:23:18 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2016, 10:52:27 PM
Boden hasn't got enough pitches to service the demand. Country people always make the mistake that GAA clubs can't survive in a large urban setting.
That suggests they are too big. Time to split them up.
Problem with that is that there isn't the green areas inside the M50 to host new clubs. You could base one in UCD but after that......
Quote from: Canalman on April 26, 2016, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: angermanagement on April 25, 2016, 11:02:32 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 03:22:42 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on April 25, 2016, 01:03:19 PM
Was there an replay for the OMahoney Johnny Cooper incident?
Two lads well able to throw their weight around. O Mahoney at it for years and can't forget Coopers rake on Diarmuid O Connor in drawn semi and got in Seamus O Shea face enough to draw a black card in the replay.
Distant footage from the Canal End that really only shows that Kinsella didn't see the incident himself so the linesman must have made the call.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 25, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0425/784105-dublin-gaa/)
No name credited but whoever wrote this definitely reads this board.
Peter Sweeney credited there now, hello Peter.
Comments below it are great, in fairness to the Dubs they are all on the same page. It's all just begrudgery.
One of the comments says several U14 Dublin club teams went to Portugal for a week warm weather training before feile. Surely that can't be true.
Nope. One team went after winning the Dublin Feile iirc. Funded it themselves. Not from one of the affluent areas of the city also.
Certainly eyebrows were raised, but afaik it was never done since or before.
Was definitely frowned upon
Every underage team should try and have one tour overseas, great way to bond young players to a club. Creates great memories and positive reinforcement about what a team and club culture is all about. Our U12s recently spent the weekend away in Birmingham.
I agree Dinny, but just in relation to warm weather trips/people losing the run of themselves over Feile teams, I remember I was down in Kilkenny the time Castleknock broke through in the hurling feile and their semi final opponents (Blackrock from Cork) had brought several cryogenic baths with them on a flatbed so they could use them between matches.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-s-dominance-undermining-football-s-spectator-appeal-says-giles-1.2624172
As the dust settles on Dublin's record equalling four-in-a-row in the Allianz Football League, there are concerns that the county's ongoing domination runs the risk of undermining the game's spectator appeal.
That is the view of an old rival of Dublin, former Meath selector, double All-Ireland winner and footballer of the year Trevor Giles, speaking as an Eirgrid football ambassador at an event to mark Saturday's final between Cork and Mayo in the All-Ireland under-21 championship, which the company sponsors.
"I think they've just become dominant and I think they're going to stay that way for a few years, which for a neutral probably isn't ideal in terms of, if Dublin are playing somebody – are you going to watch it; because it's going to be one-sided?
This should not be a bashing thread . The whole feile thing had gone mad and the dublin teams were no better or worse in this regard .
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 26, 2016, 09:41:20 AM
I agree Dinny, but just in relation to warm weather trips/people losing the run of themselves over Feile teams, I remember I was down in Kilkenny the time Castleknock broke through in the hurling feile and their semi final opponents (Blackrock from Cork) had brought several cryogenic baths with them on a flatbed so they could use them between matches.
They're called 'mortar tubs' where I come from.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 25, 2016, 10:52:27 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2016, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 25, 2016, 10:42:13 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 25, 2016, 10:24:23 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 25, 2016, 02:03:08 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 09:46:32 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 24, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
If there's one team to topple the dubs it the red hands. We would aboulstey show them zero respect
That ship sailed in 2008
New team now. By respect I mean would have no fear. Not like these other clowns on here who seem to be shitting themselves over Dublin.we would have as good as devolpment structures as there is and if not this year then soon. Dublin is lucky that they have such a good bunch of players but give it a few years and the cycle will change
It will change with a few retirees. I can see the field being very even between 5/6 counties in about 3-5 years. Leinster will be still a cesspit however
Can't see that happening. The imbalance between urban and rural areas, the capital in particular, will continue to grow at a steadily increasing pace. According to Marty Morrissey in a report on Ballyboden, the club fields over 50 teams. I mentioned this to a friend in Skerries and he told me that the Harps field over 70 teams! I'd wager that the dozen of Mayo's larger clubs wouldn't match that amount. Back in '91 (I think) a report commissioned by Central Council, stated that 5 Dublin clubs could field more underage players than any of five named counties. The situation has not gotten any better in the interim and that's for sure.
The main purpose of the report however was to examine and and assess the rate of fallout as younger players start to move up to the grades.
Dublin was by far the county with the highest drop out. Far more kids, percentage wise, joined GAA clubs than in any other county but the numbers leaving were equally well in front of any other county. Another big concern was that the percentage of those former players severed connection with the club they had played for.
I'd say that 90% plus of the population of Castlebar were solidly behind the Mitchels as they prepared for the final. The commission report referred to the penetration rate, the percentage of the local population that would support the local club.
Would the 'penetration rate' in Firhouse be in double figures? I very much doubt it. The GAA are losing their share of the market as it were, and nowhere as pronounced as in Dublin. The number of super clubs in Dublin is increasing while clubs in Mayo are amalgamating due to the effects of rural depopulation. There are many other counties in the same boat as Mayo and things are not going to change for any of them anytime soon.
If Dublin keep mopping up national titles while at the same time losing a larger and larger share of potential members and supporters, the outlook is bleak for the GAA in general.
Was driving around the area just before the club final and couldn't see ONE flag stuck out the window of a house. Apart from the flags and bunting outside their grounds you wouldn't have a clue anything was going on.
I saw plenty of flags around Rathfarnham.
`There was bound to be plenty of flags and bunting in some places as Boden is a big club but as Croi says, he was driving about the area and failed to see any. I mentioned Firhouse, in Boden's catchment region, as I have a nephew there who played underage hurling with the club and was a mad supporter in his younger days. Four or five of his mates played there with him so I expected to see a good few houses with Boden's colours but not a single one was to be seen.
The nephew doesn't dislike the club and he'd class himself as a Dub supporter but wearing a Dub jersey and heading to the pub to meet up with his mates whenever a Dublin match is televised is about as far as it goes for him.
Once one of his crowd dropped out, the rest followed suit and I know none of them bothers going near the club, let alone support it in any way. Needless, to say neither any of parents nor neighbours have the same sense of identification with the local club as you'll find in the small rural areas like Castlebar.
My point is that while, Boden is a successful club with a large number of members, it's share of the total market of potential supporters is slipping. When you realise that this is happening onn a county-wide scale, it's time to start worrying a bit....
Short term, doesn't matter...mid-term, maybe time to see what can be done... long-term, a niche sport for an elitist minority.
Boden hasn't got enough pitches to service the demand. Country people always make the mistake that GAA clubs can't survive in a large urban setting. They don't just survive - they thrive and are as closely knit as any rural parish.
Rugby has all the market penetration of sex under a wheelbarrow in Dublin if the truth be told. Nobody plays it after 18. GAA is king.
G'man Indy, you're making my case far better than I can!
Of course Boden, with over 50 teams, could use more pitches if there were green field sites available and so could most clubs in the capital.
Between the lot of them, they deserve unstinting praise from a high percentage of parents in the Dublin area. After all, they provide an unparalleled child minding service to harassed adults of all creeds and colours.
However, the dropout rate here is far higher than the national average and that was a cause of concern for Central Council as far back as 1991. Clubs may well have 4 or 5 teams or more in each of the under 15s but will only have at most two at minor level. (Heck, I'm only going by the findings of this report. Right now, I'm not taking sides in the overall debate.)
You may think Rugby has little or no penetration rate but somehow or another, there no problem filling the Aviva or the RDS for an interprovincial game. Money spent on following rugby activities is a potential loss to the GAA's coffers.
BTW, I never had sex under a wheelbarrow so I can't really comment on what it's like but I'll take you at your word. ;D
Lar, as someone who lives in Dublin and has a good knowledge of the general sports scene on both sides of the river, I can tell you it is the GAA that's eating into rugby's participation base, not the other way around.
Nationally, where rugby is making inroads is in the provincial towns and more traditional 'rural' GAA areas, where they are coming from a very low base.
If you look at the traditional rugby powers in Dublin, they are tiny operations compared with the GAA superclubs like Kilmacud Crokes and Ballyboden.
And they're getting smaller by the year, which is why Blackrock were so desperate to enter into a ground-sharing deal with Cuala at Stradbrook.
The provincial scene has strangled club rugby in this country.
Jinxy the way things are going Leinster and Munster rugby will be a good bit lower profile over the next 5 to 10 years.
The concussion thing doesn't help either.
If you're a yummy mummy in Stillorgan and its a choice between sending little Fionn down to the nursery in Crokes or sending him to a rugby club, you'll probably go with the former.
The GAA is now an acceptable middle class pursuit in what would previously have been considered rugby heartlands.
The dominance of the schools rugby scene over the juvenile club rugby scene is another factor.
For those that make their schools senior cup team, that will be the pinnacle of their rugby career.
If you don't get an academy contract, it's a choice between playing in front of two men and a dog for the rest of your rugby career, or just giving it up altogether.
As most of them will not have played for a club during their secondary school years, they don't have the same ties a footballer or hurler of the same age would have with their local club.
Its easy enough to just walk away.
Why are the Dubs so defensive on this?
http://www.balls.ie/gaa/its-not-appropriate-jim-gavin-critical-of-drug-testers-in-aftermath-of-league-final/331603
Quote from: highorlow on April 26, 2016, 12:07:23 PM
Why are the Dubs so defensive on this?
http://www.balls.ie/gaa/its-not-appropriate-jim-gavin-critical-of-drug-testers-in-aftermath-of-league-final/331603
mmmmm interesting
I actually agree with him on this. I'm in favour of drug testing, but does it really have to be immediately after a game? Even in soccer, it seems wrong. I'm sure the tests would show the same results the next morning or afternoon.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 12:11:18 PM
I actually agree with him on this. I'm in favour of drug testing, but does it really have to be immediately after a game? Even in soccer, it seems wrong. I'm sure the tests would show the same results the next morning or afternoon.
I actually saw a clip of Martial getting pulled for a drug test as he came down the tunnel after scoring the winner against Everton in the FA cup and thought that must be so hateful, when all you want to do is get into the changing room with your teamates.
Maybe its so they can test for some substances that can leave the system very quickly?
If not, surely there is no harm in giving them an hour or so at elast after the games before pulling them in.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 12:11:18 PM
I actually agree with him on this. I'm in favour of drug testing, but does it really have to be immediately after a game? Even in soccer, it seems wrong. I'm sure the tests would show the same results the next morning or afternoon.
Gavin knows as well as anyone that it has to be done quickly after the match. I'd say he is publicly airing a complaint made to him by his players, but he wouldn't mean much by it.
Quote from: muppet on April 26, 2016, 12:20:14 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 12:11:18 PM
I actually agree with him on this. I'm in favour of drug testing, but does it really have to be immediately after a game? Even in soccer, it seems wrong. I'm sure the tests would show the same results the next morning or afternoon.
Gavin knows as well as anyone that it has to be done quickly after the match. I'd say he is publicly airing a complaint made to him by his players, but he wouldn't mean much by it.
Why though? Why immediately after a game like that. I mean do the traces disappear as quickly as that?
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 12:40:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 26, 2016, 12:20:14 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 12:11:18 PM
I actually agree with him on this. I'm in favour of drug testing, but does it really have to be immediately after a game? Even in soccer, it seems wrong. I'm sure the tests would show the same results the next morning or afternoon.
Gavin knows as well as anyone that it has to be done quickly after the match. I'd say he is publicly airing a complaint made to him by his players, but he wouldn't mean much by it.
Why though? Why immediately after a game like that. I mean do the traces disappear as quickly as that?
You are guaranteed to have the players there, no excuses....they might not hear the doorbell at home for example ::)
No scientific reason other than that?
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 12:48:34 PM
No scientific reason other than that?
Not as far as I'm aware. Maybe certain stimulants which are banned and are taken before games are easier to catch.
Quote from: muppet on April 26, 2016, 12:20:14 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 12:11:18 PM
I actually agree with him on this. I'm in favour of drug testing, but does it really have to be immediately after a game? Even in soccer, it seems wrong. I'm sure the tests would show the same results the next morning or afternoon.
Gavin knows as well as anyone that it has to be done quickly after the match. I'd say he is publicly airing a complaint made to him by his players, but he wouldn't mean much by it.
It can take hours to give a urine sample after a game.
I remember Niall Kelly years ago being kept in Croke Park after a Meath game, unable to give a sample, after he'd received a belt in the kidneys during the game.
He had to be hospitalised that evening.
They can take blood immediately but I don't know if they do one or both now for the GAA.
I doubt the players themselves were bothered about missing the show itself, but I know it rankles when they are kept away from their teammates and the general celebrations after a game.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 12:40:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 26, 2016, 12:20:14 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 12:11:18 PM
I actually agree with him on this. I'm in favour of drug testing, but does it really have to be immediately after a game? Even in soccer, it seems wrong. I'm sure the tests would show the same results the next morning or afternoon.
Gavin knows as well as anyone that it has to be done quickly after the match. I'd say he is publicly airing a complaint made to him by his players, but he wouldn't mean much by it.
Why though? Why immediately after a game like that. I mean do the traces disappear as quickly as that?
If the winners of whatever the event is aren't tested immediately after the main event the system has no integrity. We have seen in other sports how difficult it is to get athletes tested 'out of competition', so the obvious reaction to that is to make sure tests are conducted 'in competition'. Especially the winners.
This is what the Sports Council said today:
"The players could have watched the show under supervision and been tested afterwards.
"We are always as accommodating as we can be. We know testing can cause frustration for sportspeople so we do our best to work with them."http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/players-should-not-have-missed-croker-laochra-show-because-of-drug-tests-sports-council-34659269.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/players-should-not-have-missed-croker-laochra-show-because-of-drug-tests-sports-council-34659269.html)
That seems reasonable to me. They try to be accommodating, but there is no question of going looking for players the next day or later that week.
Micro dosing is all the rage now, drugs get flushed out pretty quickly, so if you take a stimulant with that particular game in mind and take only a small dosage it will be out of the system by the next day.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 26, 2016, 01:11:26 PM
Micro dosing is all the rage now, drugs get flushed out pretty quickly, so if you take a stimulant with that particular game in mind and take only a small dosage it will be out of the system by the next day.
Fair enough Dinny. Maybe they should just do the blood test so, and forget urine? Anyhow, you seem to be something of an expert with regard to doping in general. I'm getting very suspicious of Kildare and Leinster Rugby :)
Quote from: Zulu on April 25, 2016, 04:32:32 PM
The only reason they aren't much further up the pecking order in hurling is that the best young hurlers go to football. If they picked hurling Dublin would probably be only behind Kilkenny.
There should undoubtedly be targeted funding for other counties, starting with the bigger ones, but many of them still have to ask themselves why they're so far off the standard of Dublin.
If you seriously believe that, then you're smoking something special...
Lowndes and Kilkenny were decent enough underage hurlers, hardly world beaters..
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 26, 2016, 01:11:26 PM
Micro dosing is all the rage now, drugs get flushed out pretty quickly, so if you take a stimulant with that particular game in mind and take only a small dosage it will be out of the system by the next day.
Fair enough Dinny. Maybe they should just do the blood test so, and forget urine? Anyhow, you seem to be something of an expert with regard to doping in general. I'm getting very suspicious of Kildare and Leinster Rugby :)
(http://www.castrol.com/content/dam/castrolcountry/en_za/Products/Other-products/GTX-20W-50-High-Mileage_resized.jpg)
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 26, 2016, 01:11:26 PM
Micro dosing is all the rage now, drugs get flushed out pretty quickly, so if you take a stimulant with that particular game in mind and take only a small dosage it will be out of the system by the next day.
Fair enough Dinny. Maybe they should just do the blood test so, and forget urine? Anyhow, you seem to be something of an expert with regard to doping in general. I'm getting very suspicious of Kildare and Leinster Rugby :)
Rugby has it's own problems with drugs and other things indeed Jinxy is quite perceptive with his ramblings above.
You would need drugs to watch Kildare never mind play for them.
I only got to watch highlights of the league final now, and after all I'd read, I was expecting a massacre.
Jaysus, there was a point in it with nearly an hour gone. I understand why Dublin are favourites for Sam, but I wouldn't be handing out medals yet. It's April.
Maybe investment is needed in other counties but I wouldn't be panicking. Dublin have won three out of five AIs and the winning margin in all three was narrow. Kerry won seven out of nine so I think everyone needs to relax.
Quote from: johnneycool on April 26, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 25, 2016, 04:32:32 PM
The only reason they aren't much further up the pecking order in hurling is that the best young hurlers go to football. If they picked hurling Dublin would probably be only behind Kilkenny.
There should undoubtedly be targeted funding for other counties, starting with the bigger ones, but many of them still have to ask themselves why they're so far off the standard of Dublin.
If you seriously believe that, then you're smoking something special...
Lowndes and Kilkenny were decent enough underage hurlers, hardly world beaters..
They were always better footballers than hurlers. Was no surprise that they opted for the big ball.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 26, 2016, 02:30:57 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 26, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 25, 2016, 04:32:32 PM
The only reason they aren't much further up the pecking order in hurling is that the best young hurlers go to football. If they picked hurling Dublin would probably be only behind Kilkenny.
There should undoubtedly be targeted funding for other counties, starting with the bigger ones, but many of them still have to ask themselves why they're so far off the standard of Dublin.
If you seriously believe that, then you're smoking something special...
Lowndes and Kilkenny were decent enough underage hurlers, hardly world beaters..
They were always better footballers than hurlers. Was no surprise that they opted for the big ball.
I have in my head that Lowndes was similar level at football and hurling, therefore, would be a bigger loss to the hurlers.
Kilkenny had been rated a better hurler at U14, U15, U16 level (and was raved about by those who saw him as something very special), but by minor I thought he was clearlly a better footballer, while still being a strong hurler of course.
It would have been very interesting to see how Costello might have developed at intercounty hurling. He was very different, abundance of pace and skill.
O'Conghaile was certainly a loss to the hurlers. In my view, a very good footballer, but a better hurler. And while struggling to get game time for the footballers, you would have expected him to be a certain starter for the hurlers by now.
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on April 26, 2016, 01:57:29 PM
I only got to watch highlights of the league final now, and after all I'd read, I was expecting a massacre.
Jaysus, there was a point in it with nearly an hour gone. I understand why Dublin are favourites for Sam, but I wouldn't be handing out medals yet. It's April.
Maybe investment is needed in other counties but I wouldn't be panicking. Dublin have won three out of five AIs and the winning margin in all three was narrow. Kerry won seven out of nine so I think everyone needs to relax.
Dublin totally dominated midfield, which wasn't really expected, but we didn't make that count for most of the game. Our footpassing was terrible. Flynn and, even moreso, Connolly turned over a mountain of ball, and a good few others chipped in with poor passes.
Then we did get two pieces of good fortune to kill the game - although Kerry have only themselves to blame for it - i.e. the sending off and the keeper handing an easy goal to Flynn. Albeit I'd still maintain that Flynn's finish was a poor one - the right option was to pass it to Bernard who would have had an empty net, but he lashed it straight and hard and the keeper kindly got out of the way.
The penalty and the 2nd goal both game from missed efforts at points that hit the post. So both a mix of luck and good play to react quickest.
I don't like being lucky in the league (and we were nothing short of blessed to beat both Monaghan and Roscommon) as I just feel its inevitable that luck will turn.
Clearly favourites, but I don't think we're as far ahead as we were in May 2014. Then I honestly thought we could win the All Ireland with no team getting within 5 or 6 points of us. Then Donegal happened. There'll be tight and exciting games ahead
Quote from: johnneycool on April 26, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 25, 2016, 04:32:32 PM
The only reason they aren't much further up the pecking order in hurling is that the best young hurlers go to football. If they picked hurling Dublin would probably be only behind Kilkenny.
There should undoubtedly be targeted funding for other counties, starting with the bigger ones, but many of them still have to ask themselves why they're so far off the standard of Dublin.
If you seriously believe that, then you're smoking something special...
Lowndes and Kilkenny were decent enough underage hurlers, hardly world beaters..
Nonsense, Kilkenny was a star of his team, Con O'Callaghan is very highly rated and Cormac Costello was a star in the making. That's three potential forwards, not to mention Rory O'Carroll and Diarmuid Connolly (who is apparently a brilliant hurler) as others who could have made the Dubs hurling team. There are other, less high profile guys as well, now if you seriously think 6 to 8 guys who could potentially make the county team wouldn't bring Dublin up a level and beyond a poor Cork, handy Limerick, inconsistent Galway and a host of poor teams like Offaly and Wexford then it's you smoking something. Clare were awful last year and Waterford are still very young, so yeah, second to Kilkenny is not an unreasonable comment.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 26, 2016, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 26, 2016, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 26, 2016, 01:11:26 PM
Micro dosing is all the rage now, drugs get flushed out pretty quickly, so if you take a stimulant with that particular game in mind and take only a small dosage it will be out of the system by the next day.
Fair enough Dinny. Maybe they should just do the blood test so, and forget urine? Anyhow, you seem to be something of an expert with regard to doping in general. I'm getting very suspicious of Kildare and Leinster Rugby :)
Rugby has it's own problems with drugs and other things indeed Jinxy is quite perceptive with his ramblings above.
You would need drugs to watch Kildare never mind play for them.
Watching Kildare is a natural depressant.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 26, 2016, 11:14:18 AM
Lar, as someone who lives in Dublin and has a good knowledge of the general sports scene on both sides of the river, I can tell you it is the GAA that's eating into rugby's participation base, not the other way around.
Nationally, where rugby is making inroads is in the provincial towns and more traditional 'rural' GAA areas, where they are coming from a very low base.
If you look at the traditional rugby powers in Dublin, they are tiny operations compared with the GAA superclubs like Kilmacud Crokes and Ballyboden.
And they're getting smaller by the year, which is why Blackrock were so desperate to enter into a ground-sharing deal with Cuala at Stradbrook.
The provincial scene has strangled club rugby in this country.
I accept what you are saying without any bother but it's not the numbers of underage players that worries HQ, it's the drop off rate. BTW, most of what I'm saying here is on foot of a chat I had with Pat Daly and a few mutual acquaintances some years ago. (Has anyone else even heard of the report I have been referring to?)
In junior player numbers, rugby is nothing more than a minor distraction in the capital but the money spent on Leinster jerseys, scarves etc. is another matter entirely. So is the amount of people who turn up for interprovincials and Pro 12s and the likes.
It's percentages not actual numbers than worry HQ. I once played junior football with Bective down your way. If there was a derby with Dunderry, just about every living soul would turn up too cheer, heckle, fight or sometimes all three. "Market penetration" was close to 100%.
The pubs in Robinstown ad Bective and the Balreask Arms were packed til closing time and well beyond. The club was and is the heart and soul of this small, rural community and the same could be said of hundreds of others throughout the land. My local club, Ciarans in Donnycarney, does a brisk pub business but find it hard to get managers for underage sides. I live within 500 yards of the place and yet most of the people in my vicinity wouldn't be aware of or interested in any of the games played there. Ciarans to the vast majority means the bar and nothing else.
The worry of the Croke Park heads seems to be that, while the population is growing at an ever increasing rate, the numbers who actively identify with their local club or indeed the GAA in general are not growing at the same pace.
Quote from: johnneycool on April 26, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 25, 2016, 04:32:32 PM
The only reason they aren't much further up the pecking order in hurling is that the best young hurlers go to football. If they picked hurling Dublin would probably be only behind Kilkenny.
There should undoubtedly be targeted funding for other counties, starting with the bigger ones, but many of them still have to ask themselves why they're so far off the standard of Dublin.
If you seriously believe that, then you're smoking something special...
Lowndes and Kilkenny were decent enough underage hurlers, hardly world beaters..
Kikenny was the best minor hurler in the country at his age group in 2011. Even Mattie Murphy said so. He's ten times the hurler then he is at football.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 26, 2016, 06:49:25 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 26, 2016, 11:14:18 AM
Lar, as someone who lives in Dublin and has a good knowledge of the general sports scene on both sides of the river, I can tell you it is the GAA that's eating into rugby's participation base, not the other way around.
Nationally, where rugby is making inroads is in the provincial towns and more traditional 'rural' GAA areas, where they are coming from a very low base.
If you look at the traditional rugby powers in Dublin, they are tiny operations compared with the GAA superclubs like Kilmacud Crokes and Ballyboden.
And they're getting smaller by the year, which is why Blackrock were so desperate to enter into a ground-sharing deal with Cuala at Stradbrook.
The provincial scene has strangled club rugby in this country.
I accept what you are saying without any bother but it's not the numbers of underage players that worries HQ, it's the drop off rate. BTW, most of what I'm saying here is on foot of a chat I had with Pat Daly and a few mutual acquaintances some years ago. (Has anyone else even heard of the report I have been referring to?)
In junior player numbers, rugby is nothing more than a minor distraction in the capital but the money spent on Leinster jerseys, scarves etc. is another matter entirely. So is the amount of people who turn up for interprovincials and Pro 12s and the likes.
It's percentages not actual numbers than worry HQ. I once played junior football with Bective down your way. If there was a derby with Dunderry, just about every living soul would turn up too cheer, heckle, fight or sometimes all three. "Market penetration" was close to 100%.
The pubs in Robinstown ad Bective and the Balreask Arms were packed til closing time and well beyond. The club was and is the heart and soul of this small, rural community and the same could be said of hundreds of others throughout the land. My local club, Ciarans in Donnycarney, does a brisk pub business but find it hard to get managers for underage sides. I live within 500 yards of the place and yet most of the people in my vicinity wouldn't be aware of or interested in any of the games played there. Ciarans to the vast majority means the bar and nothing else.
The worry of the Croke Park heads seems to be that, while the population is growing at an ever increasing rate, the numbers who actively identify with their local club or indeed the GAA in general are not growing at the same pace.
Lar the participation levels in Dublin are ridiculous. GAA are the best games in the world for kids to play and parents see that now. Rugby is the sport you want everyone's else's kids to play
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2016, 10:19:41 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 26, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 25, 2016, 04:32:32 PM
The only reason they aren't much further up the pecking order in hurling is that the best young hurlers go to football. If they picked hurling Dublin would probably be only behind Kilkenny.
There should undoubtedly be targeted funding for other counties, starting with the bigger ones, but many of them still have to ask themselves why they're so far off the standard of Dublin.
If you seriously believe that, then you're smoking something special...
Lowndes and Kilkenny were decent enough underage hurlers, hardly world beaters..
Kikenny was the best minor hurler in the country at his age group in 2011. Even Mattie Murphy said so. He's ten times the hurler then he is at football.
He was a fine hurler but had a huge swing that was found out. Cormac Costelloe was a far tidier hurler tbh.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 26, 2016, 06:49:25 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 26, 2016, 11:14:18 AM
Lar, as someone who lives in Dublin and has a good knowledge of the general sports scene on both sides of the river, I can tell you it is the GAA that's eating into rugby's participation base, not the other way around.
Nationally, where rugby is making inroads is in the provincial towns and more traditional 'rural' GAA areas, where they are coming from a very low base.
If you look at the traditional rugby powers in Dublin, they are tiny operations compared with the GAA superclubs like Kilmacud Crokes and Ballyboden.
And they're getting smaller by the year, which is why Blackrock were so desperate to enter into a ground-sharing deal with Cuala at Stradbrook.
The provincial scene has strangled club rugby in this country.
I accept what you are saying without any bother but it's not the numbers of underage players that worries HQ, it's the drop off rate. BTW, most of what I'm saying here is on foot of a chat I had with Pat Daly and a few mutual acquaintances some years ago. (Has anyone else even heard of the report I have been referring to?)
In junior player numbers, rugby is nothing more than a minor distraction in the capital but the money spent on Leinster jerseys, scarves etc. is another matter entirely. So is the amount of people who turn up for interprovincials and Pro 12s and the likes.
It's percentages not actual numbers than worry HQ. I once played junior football with Bective down your way. If there was a derby with Dunderry, just about every living soul would turn up too cheer, heckle, fight or sometimes all three. "Market penetration" was close to 100%.
The pubs in Robinstown ad Bective and the Balreask Arms were packed til closing time and well beyond. The club was and is the heart and soul of this small, rural community and the same could be said of hundreds of others throughout the land. My local club, Ciarans in Donnycarney, does a brisk pub business but find it hard to get managers for underage sides. I live within 500 yards of the place and yet most of the people in my vicinity wouldn't be aware of or interested in any of the games played there. Ciarans to the vast majority means the bar and nothing else.
The worry of the Croke Park heads seems to be that, while the population is growing at an ever increasing rate, the numbers who actively identify with their local club or indeed the GAA in general are not growing at the same pace.
If it's the same report I seen that was compiled by the National Research committee, it concluded that the drop out rate from 13-18 was a phenomenon across all Irish sport and sport in general in Europe and the drop out rate was no higher in Dublin than elsewhere (pro-rata) - it was created by Daragh Sheridan (IIRC)
Quote from: Zulu on April 26, 2016, 05:12:13 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 26, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 25, 2016, 04:32:32 PM
The only reason they aren't much further up the pecking order in hurling is that the best young hurlers go to football. If they picked hurling Dublin would probably be only behind Kilkenny.
There should undoubtedly be targeted funding for other counties, starting with the bigger ones, but many of them still have to ask themselves why they're so far off the standard of Dublin.
If you seriously believe that, then you're smoking something special...
Lowndes and Kilkenny were decent enough underage hurlers, hardly world beaters..
Nonsense, Kilkenny was a star of his team, Con O'Callaghan is very highly rated and Cormac Costello was a star in the making. That's three potential forwards, not to mention Rory O'Carroll and Diarmuid Connolly (who is apparently a brilliant hurler) as others who could have made the Dubs hurling team. There are other, less high profile guys as well, now if you seriously think 6 to 8 guys who could potentially make the county team wouldn't bring Dublin up a level and beyond a poor Cork, handy Limerick, inconsistent Galway and a host of poor teams like Offaly and Wexford then it's you smoking something. Clare were awful last year and Waterford are still very young, so yeah, second to Kilkenny is not an unreasonable comment.
When Tomás Brady (limited footballer by Dublin standards) picks sitting on the Dublin bench over a central role with the hurlers you can see the difficulties that the hurlers still face in attracting the cream of the crop.
Disagree with Indy about Kilkenny as a hurler. Much better footballer imo.
Major losses to Dublin hurling imo are Costello, McHugh and Tomás Brady. Sutcliffe not playing a catastrophe. Pretty much the rest of our best underage hurlers in recent years on the senior panel.
Think Cormac would have been a superstar hurler.
All imo of course.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 26, 2016, 10:19:41 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 26, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 25, 2016, 04:32:32 PM
The only reason they aren't much further up the pecking order in hurling is that the best young hurlers go to football. If they picked hurling Dublin would probably be only behind Kilkenny.
There should undoubtedly be targeted funding for other counties, starting with the bigger ones, but many of them still have to ask themselves why they're so far off the standard of Dublin.
If you seriously believe that, then you're smoking something special...
Lowndes and Kilkenny were decent enough underage hurlers, hardly world beaters..
Kikenny was the best minor hurler in the country at his age group in 2011. Even Mattie Murphy said so. He's ten times the hurler then he is at football.
I must say I saw him hurl a few times at underage and I don't think he was even the best player on the pitch any time I saw him. He was certainly very decent though but that sounds like typical Mattie hyperbole if he did actually say that.
Quote from: heffo on April 27, 2016, 08:43:48 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 26, 2016, 06:49:25 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 26, 2016, 11:14:18 AM
Lar, as someone who lives in Dublin and has a good knowledge of the general sports scene on both sides of the river, I can tell you it is the GAA that's eating into rugby's participation base, not the other way around.
Nationally, where rugby is making inroads is in the provincial towns and more traditional 'rural' GAA areas, where they are coming from a very low base.
If you look at the traditional rugby powers in Dublin, they are tiny operations compared with the GAA superclubs like Kilmacud Crokes and Ballyboden.
And they're getting smaller by the year, which is why Blackrock were so desperate to enter into a ground-sharing deal with Cuala at Stradbrook.
The provincial scene has strangled club rugby in this country.
I accept what you are saying without any bother but it's not the numbers of underage players that worries HQ, it's the drop off rate. BTW, most of what I'm saying here is on foot of a chat I had with Pat Daly and a few mutual acquaintances some years ago. (Has anyone else even heard of the report I have been referring to?)
In junior player numbers, rugby is nothing more than a minor distraction in the capital but the money spent on Leinster jerseys, scarves etc. is another matter entirely. So is the amount of people who turn up for interprovincials and Pro 12s and the likes.
It's percentages not actual numbers than worry HQ. I once played junior football with Bective down your way. If there was a derby with Dunderry, just about every living soul would turn up too cheer, heckle, fight or sometimes all three. "Market penetration" was close to 100%.
The pubs in Robinstown ad Bective and the Balreask Arms were packed til closing time and well beyond. The club was and is the heart and soul of this small, rural community and the same could be said of hundreds of others throughout the land. My local club, Ciarans in Donnycarney, does a brisk pub business but find it hard to get managers for underage sides. I live within 500 yards of the place and yet most of the people in my vicinity wouldn't be aware of or interested in any of the games played there. Ciarans to the vast majority means the bar and nothing else.
The worry of the Croke Park heads seems to be that, while the population is growing at an ever increasing rate, the numbers who actively identify with their local club or indeed the GAA in general are not growing at the same pace.
If it's the same report I seen that was compiled by the National Research committee, it concluded that the drop out rate from 13-18 was a phenomenon across all Irish sport and sport in general in Europe and the drop out rate was no higher in Dublin than elsewhere (pro-rata) - it was created by Daragh Sheridan (IIRC)
No it was commissioned at the time Peter Quinn was Uachtarán so that would date it c 1995. Colm O'Rourke and Eugene Magee were members of the committee that produced it. The conclusions of the report were generally we-received, apart from the major one, that is. This was the recommendation that Dublin should be split in two, north and south.
The reaction to that was predictable and in the Dubs v the rest controversy that followed, the entire list of recommendations was shelved.
IMO, that was a great pity as much of the reports contents made a lot of sense to me.
I'd stress that while the numbers who dropped out were of concern, the primary focus was on seeing what could be done to keep those who left involved in GAA activities. It seems an inordinately high number of those who left, for one reason or another, severed connections with the GAA.
Superclubs were just starting to become an issue at the time and the pros and cons of huge clubs vs smaller more intimate ones was examined in detail.The conclusion was that the larger ones had, pro rata, a much higher drop out and switch off rate than their smaller, more intimate counterparts. In short, a superclub might have a couple of dozen teams of boys at u10 or u11, hurling and football but the number of teams decreases sharply as the age limit increases. If, say, three smaller clubs covered the same region, they would field more teams between them at minor level and upwards.
One can look at August bank holiday in 2009 when Kerry utterly tanked Dublin and the view at that time was that Dublin would win a hurling AI before a football .
Quote from: ashman on April 27, 2016, 03:13:33 PM
One can look at August bank holiday in 2009 when Kerry utterly tanked Dublin and the view at that time was that Dublin would win a hurling AI before a football .
It's funny that a lot of the talk since Sunday is about how Dublin were far more mobile and their S&C was far superior.
In October 2009 after Kerry hammered us in August, Gilroy met the Dublin panel and told them we had to adopt the Kerry S&C model.
He thought they were lighter, stronger and faster and anyone who didn't comply was shipped out.
Away went bench pressing & dumbbells etc
I remember seeing the gym programme at the time and thinking it was mad.
Funny enough these programmes often take 2 years to bear fruit . Dublin gassed badly in the last 15 mins v Cork in 2010 semi . It has not happened since and won't in future.
https://apoemforireland.rte.ie/shortlist/dublin/
She is not an Irish town
And she is not English,
Historic with guns and vermin
And the cold renown
Of a fragment of Church latin,
Of an oratorical phrase.
But oh the days are soft,
Soft enough to forget
The lesson better learnt,
The bullet on the wet
Streets, the crooked deal,
The steel behind the laugh,
The Four Courts burnt.
Fort of the Dane,
Garrison of the Saxon,
Augustan capital
Of a Gaelic nation,
Appropriating all
The alien brought,
You give me time for thought
And by a juggler's trick
You poise the toppling hour –
O greyness run to flower,
Grey stone, grey water,
And brick upon grey brick.
Jaysus
As I've said loads of times on here before, it always seems to be when Dublin get their first goal that it marks the end of the match. Kerry were staying with them quite well on Sunday up until the hour mark and then all of a sudden it was over. A man sent off and a simple goal given away.
Dublin have some very talented footballers but they have combined that now with ferocious work rate all over the team. So many players like McMahon, McCarthy, Johnny Cooper are able to run all day and defend like tigers but then break forward at speed. They are all able to kick scores and even goals if left unmarked. I'd like to see how often Dublin lose possession from their own kickouts these days. With such an accurate kick passer from their keeper and also with 3 good midfielders then in my eyes this Dublin team is pretty much the best SQUAD I've ever seen.
Then as most teams begin to tire a bit in the last 10 mins and this is where true champions often crush their closest rivals, Dublin have an amazing group of subs to come on.
Dublin's forwards used to be their weak point for years and was probably why they hadn't won Sam for so long but now they have a plethora of talented score getters.
Brogan really cleaned out Mark O'Shea on Sunday with some great fielding, turning and shooting. Rock is the new Darling Charlie where he top scores usually from frees. McManamon though is the guy that often scores the goals that kills off teams.
Only Kerry & Mayo in my eyes can really give them a game any more and even they tend to fall away in the last 10-15 mins of a game. Donegal were the last team to really catch them on the hop and I think Gavin and his squad learnt a huge lesson that day which they will not repeat I think. Dublin are no longer scared to put bodies behind the ball and play defensively if they have to close a game out.
Personally I can't see anyone getting near to them but of course we all know football doesn't always pan out like you expect it.
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 28, 2016, 03:31:03 PM
As I've said loads of times on here before, it always seems to be when Dublin get their first goal that it marks the end of the match. Kerry were staying with them quite well on Sunday up until the hour mark and then all of a sudden it was over. A man sent off and a simple goal given away.
Dublin have some very talented footballers but they have combined that now with ferocious work rate all over the team. So many players like McMahon, McCarthy, Johnny Cooper are able to run all day and defend like tigers but then break forward at speed. They are all able to kick scores and even goals if left unmarked. I'd like to see how often Dublin lose possession from their own kickouts these days. With such an accurate kick passer from their keeper and also with 3 good midfielders then in my eyes this Dublin team is pretty much the best SQUAD I've ever seen.
Then as most teams begin to tire a bit in the last 10 mins and this is where true champions often crush their closest rivals, Dublin have an amazing group of subs to come on.
Dublin's forwards used to be their weak point for years and was probably why they hadn't won Sam for so long but now they have a plethora of talented score getters.
Brogan really cleaned out Mark O'Shea on Sunday with some great fielding, turning and shooting. Rock is the new Darling Charlie where he top scores usually from frees. McManamon though is the guy that often scores the goals that kills off teams.
Only Kerry & Mayo in my eyes can really give them a game any more and even they tend to fall away in the last 10-15 mins of a game. Donegal were the last team to really catch them on the hop and I think Gavin and his squad learnt a huge lesson that day which they will not repeat I think. Dublin are no longer scared to put bodies behind the ball and play defensively if they have to close a game out.
Personally I can't see anyone getting near to them but of course we all know football doesn't always pan out like you expect it.
They were holding on by their fingernails really, the expected points graph shows that they should have been further behind.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg48ferW4AAMzwk.jpg:large)
They failed to retain possession from 2 kick outs out of 16 and scored 7 points out of those 14 successful kick out possessions.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg6Clq7WYAANVzk.jpg:large)
Impressive Cro.
How does the expected points tally be worked out?
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 29, 2016, 01:51:13 PM
Impressive Cro.
How does the expected points tally be worked out?
From a statistical record of the results of the shots taken from that position.
Tomás agrees with my point that Dublin learnt a lot from that Donegal defeat 2 years ago and won't let that happen again.
Tomás Ó Sé: We will never beat Dublin if this failing system isn't overhauled quickly (http://"http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-we-will-never-beat-dublin-if-this-failing-system-isnt-overhauled-quickly-34655760.html")
I drove home from Croke Park with a storm raging inside my head last night because these Dubs have me half depressed. Making hard judgements on old team-mates isn't something that comes easy to me but, for Kerry to not perform again against this team just struck me as inexcusable. And it leaves me asking uncomfortable questions.
I thought that Kerry had learned tactically from last year's All-Ireland final, but Dublin are just so forceful and relentless in what they're doing, Kerry actually don't have the legs to stay with them.
How we were just a point behind when Aidan O'Mahony was sent off is a tribute to how hard the team worked. But, let's cut to the chase here. Dublin are on a different level.
The dismissal was foolish on Aidan's part, but he's been sailing close to the wind too often in my view. I know he's a bit of a marked man, but what he did was ridiculous, basically ending the game
I thought Brendan Kealey was having a howler on his kick-outs long before he spooned one to Paul Flynn for Dublin's opening goal
Defensively, we tried to do our best, but my brother Marc wasn't at the races, Mahony wasn't at the races, Fionn Fitzgerald wasn't at the races.
We're playing Mahony as a sweeper and I don't think he's the man for that role. The system might work against 30 other counties, but it's against the Dubs you'll ultimately get measured.
And, against them, it's not fit for purpose.
Dublin just look so far ahead of everyone else, it's actually quite worrying now.
At the start yesterday, Marc and Peter Crowley were driving forward and I though we were going to have a real cut. But we stopped. 'Gooch' had been causing problems inside but we stopped putting ball in to him. Or, maybe more accurately, we weren't able.
The Dubs' back-line was outstanding, Jonny Cooper and Philly McMahon brilliant coming forward. James McCarthy is the best defender in the country today. He's gliding into position, but he has this bull strength that just stops an opponent in his tracks.
'They are now being spoken as 'invincible' and with some justification.' Photo: Sportsfile4
'They are now being spoken as 'invincible' and with some justification.' Photo: Sportsfile
I think Dublin learned a big lesson in the 2014 All-Ireland semi-final defeat to Donegal. They were playing this lovely, pure attacking football at the time and got caught with sucker punches.
That was the day, I suspect, they came up with the role that Cian O'Sullivan now plays to virtual perfection. It means they still carry that same attacking threat, but they also have a defensive blanket that is so difficult to penetrate.
And Jim Gavin has this team exactly where he wants them now.
I saw Philly McMahon having an argument with one of the selectors and he was taken off in a flash. Diarmuid Connolly not going well? Off too. The Dubs have so many options, they can send out these messages to their players.
They got an impact from nearly everybody who went in off the bench. Between them, Kevin McManamon, Cormac Costello and Eric Lowndes kicked 1-3. Kerry just didn't have that kind of impact in reserve.
So we were fighting an uphill battle on so many levels. Our bale-out card, the height of David Moran, Bryan Sheehan and Kieran Donaghy under high ball, just never came into play. Overall, our kick-out strategy was a disaster.
But we were physically bossed too. Once yesterday, I saw Paul Mannion up-ending Sheehan to turn over ball. The Dubs have a nasty streak in them that I can only respect. Every time Ciaran Kilkenny did something well, he'd smash into Fitzgerald on the way back out the field, driving him back a few yards, every time.
He's not a dirty player, but he was leaving the kind of calling card I said last week that Kerry needed to start leaving
It's not all doom and gloom for Kerry, we did have a positive National League. But I felt disgusted going home because we just didn't answer any of the important questions.
The trouble is, we'd get away with this again in Munster. Now I'm not saying that the likes of Marc and Mahony are finished, but we simply cannot handle Dublin one-on-one.
It was never a close match in my view. Dublin's pace seemed to have us in trouble all over the field. I wouldn't say the race for Sam Maguire is over, it's just Dublin have every card marked.
Brian Fenton was terrific in midfield, Denis Bastick worked his socks off. Then Michael Darragh Macauley comes in. Where else would you get that? We certainly can't match it.
I would say one thing, the summer is long. But my worry is that Dublin will improve and that's the scary thing
If there is a positive for Kerry, it's that at least it happened now. I don't doubt that men like Marc and Mahony will be on a mission now to get back to Croke Park and prove a point.
But this is the best Dubs team of all time.
That's not just Kerry's problem. It's everybody's.
Tomás doing his Plámásing again. Dublin HAMMERED the hammer as he might say. He already talking like all Kerry teams do about the 'Hurt' when they lose. You'd swear Kerry men hurt more from defeat? And he get paid for that?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 29, 2016, 03:51:57 PM
Tomás doing his Plámásing again. Dublin HAMMERED the hammer as he might say. He already talking like all Kerry teams do about the 'Hurt' when they lose. You'd swear Kerry men hurt more from defeat? And he get paid for that?
Marc looked seriously off the pace on Sunday too. And Benny B is no spring chicken himself.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 29, 2016, 03:51:57 PM
Tomás doing his Plámásing again. Dublin HAMMERED the hammer as he might say. He already talking like all Kerry teams do about the 'Hurt' when they lose. You'd swear Kerry men hurt more from defeat? And he get paid for that?
Plámás Ó'Sé probably had that article written before the match. ;)
Marc & Eamonn were probably comh-scríobhnóirí.
Yep. Plámás Central.
Is this Greatest Dublin Team Of All Time, the same one that got their arses handed to them by Donegal 18 months ago?
Quote from: Beffs on April 29, 2016, 09:11:17 PM
Yep. Plámás Central.
Is this Greatest Dublin Team Of All Time, the same one that got their arses handed to them by Donegal 18 months ago?
Donegal fairly handed it back a few weeks ago. Donegal aren't even AI contenders anymore.
Quote from: Syferus on April 29, 2016, 09:16:52 PM
Quote from: Beffs on April 29, 2016, 09:11:17 PM
Yep. Plámás Central.
Is this Greatest Dublin Team Of All Time, the same one that got their arses handed to them by Donegal 18 months ago?
Donegal fairly handed it back a few weeks ago. Donegal aren't even AI contenders anymore.
And that is exactly what Dublin thought 18 months ago. The truly great teams don't underestimate the opposition.
Eh? So a great team, athlete, boxer never got beaten by an opponent they should have been too good for?
Dublin are a great team, one of the best ever, and an odd blip doesn't change that. Jesus, if this team can't be viewed as a great team then we've had a holy heap of shite All Ireland winning teams.
Quote from: Beffs on April 29, 2016, 10:30:40 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 29, 2016, 09:16:52 PM
Quote from: Beffs on April 29, 2016, 09:11:17 PM
Yep. Plámás Central.
Is this Greatest Dublin Team Of All Time, the same one that got their arses handed to them by Donegal 18 months ago?
Donegal fairly handed it back a few weeks ago. Donegal aren't even AI contenders anymore.
And that is exactly what Dublin thought 18 months ago. The truly great teams don't underestimate the opposition.
Donegal of 2014 had Jimmy. Now they have mad Rory and creaking bones. Similarly age has caught Kerry in a big way too. Neither have the capacity even on their best day to beat Dublin. Maybe only Mayo do and that's a stretch.
Exactly Beffs, 18 months ago. A lot has changed since then. Maybe if Dublin scored an early goal chance they missed it might have been different too.
Quote from: Syferus on April 29, 2016, 10:41:25 PM
Donegal of 2014 had Jimmy. Now they have mad Rory and creaking bones. Similarly age has caught Kerry in a big way too. Neither have the capacity even on their best day to beat Dublin. Maybe only Mayo do and that's a stretch.
Mayo were at the level required the last two years, if things click for them again this year they should be there again. They cannot have more than a couple of seasons left at their peak though. After that plenty of people think Tyrone can step up but I am extremely sceptical as they have been here before a couple of times since 2008.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 29, 2016, 11:04:29 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 29, 2016, 10:41:25 PM
Donegal of 2014 had Jimmy. Now they have mad Rory and creaking bones. Similarly age has caught Kerry in a big way too. Neither have the capacity even on their best day to beat Dublin. Maybe only Mayo do and that's a stretch.
Mayo were at the level required the last two years, if things click for them again this year they should be there again. They cannot have more than a couple of seasons left at their peak though. After that plenty of people think Tyrone can step up but I am extremely sceptical as they have been here before a couple of times since 2008.
That team is already past its peak. Just not as far past it as Donegal or Kerry. Tyrone not contenders either. Can't see why people tip them when there's nothing between them, Donegal and Monaghan.
Quote from: Zulu on April 29, 2016, 10:40:45 PM
Eh? So a great team, athlete, boxer never got beaten by an opponent they should have been too good for?
Dublin are a great team, one of the best ever, and an odd blip doesn't change that. Jesus, if this team can't be viewed as a great team then we've had a holy heap of shite All Ireland winning teams.
I am not questioning their being a great team. I am questioning their being the greatest Dublin team of all time, which is what Tomas O'Se is claiming.
The famous Dublin team of the 1970's made it to 6 All Ireland finals in a row. This Dublin team have not been in 6 finals, never mind 6 on the trot. The team of the 1970's had no semi final brain farts, or bad losses, the way that this one suffered in 2010, 2012 & 2014. Therefore I think it calls into question, Tomas O'Se's assertion that this is the greatest Dublin team ever.
Then there is the fact that 1970's team beat the greatest Kerry team of all time, on the way to winning their All Irelands. The current Dubin won their recent 3 titles against a fading & aging Kerry team and Mayo, who have won fcuk all.
Kerry also annialated Dublin in 1979 and with a lot of under 21s beat them in 1975... was a great team but i think this team is up there
It was an easier road to the finals back in the 70's too. Ulster teams had yet to emerge as a serious force, and no back door meant that good teams like Cork or Offaly were out once they lost a single game.
This team is better than the 70's Dublin team without question; they've a few more AI's left in them before they're done too.
I suppose if anyone else were saying it, I'd be more open to being convinced that it is a valid, agenda free argument. I just get suspicious at Kerry men putting that level of spin, on losing a relatively meaningless league game in April. Is it legit, or are they playing silly buggers to get the Dublin hype train charging ahead, even faster than usual? The cute hoors !
I know it was "only the league" but you only have to look at the post-game expressions/reactions of Cooper and Sheehan to know that this wasn't a meaningless game either.
That is why I said "relatively" meaningless.
Ten years from now, no one will remember who won the 2016 league. It will be a trivia question in a pub quiz. It will be an appendices to the over all story of the 2016 AI championship....a far bigger and flashier appendices than normal, given the full house at Croker, it was Dublin v Kerry, the historical weigh of it being 1916 etc, but it will be an appendices none the less.
Who wins Sam is what matters. Losing the league final - and losing it in the manner that they did - meant that Kerry are even further away from cracking the conundrum that is Dublin. It also meant that they failed to atone for their performance last September. That is what led to the sad faces imo, not any sense of loss over losing the league final, as a stand alone competition, taken on it's own merits.
Fair enough.
tomas corrigan has had a short dublin club championship run for 2016
Quote from: Canalman on April 26, 2016, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: angermanagement on April 25, 2016, 11:02:32 PM
One of the comments says several U14 Dublin club teams went to Portugal for a week warm weather training before feile. Surely that can't be true.
Nope. One team went after winning the Dublin Feile iirc. Funded it themselves. Not from one of the affluent areas of the city also.
Certainly eyebrows were raised, but afaik it was never done since or before.
Was definitely frowned upon
I see Dublin are sending Division 1 champions (Castleknock) to National Feile Division 1 this year (along with the Dublin Div 2 and Div 3 champions going to play in lower divisions at National).
Last year we sent the Division 3 and 4 champions to National Feile, while the four Division 1 semi-finalists all played in smaller Regional tournaments - I think there were 6 or 8 Regional Feiles played.
So looks like there's a big change and we're back to having a genuine All Ireland National Feile, good in one sense, but apparently a lot trouble in prior years about how competitive this gets!
I remember hearing last year that Austin Stacks deliberately played Division 2 in Kerry so as to be able to go to National Feile as Kerry's representatives (the Division 1 Kerry champs only got to go to a Regional Feile), and Stacks went on to win the National Feile. Dunno if that has anything to do with the change this year and all the best teams going to Feile.
Quote from: Hound on May 03, 2016, 04:22:05 PM
Quote from: Canalman on April 26, 2016, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: angermanagement on April 25, 2016, 11:02:32 PM
One of the comments says several U14 Dublin club teams went to Portugal for a week warm weather training before feile. Surely that can't be true.
Nope. One team went after winning the Dublin Feile iirc. Funded it themselves. Not from one of the affluent areas of the city also.
Certainly eyebrows were raised, but afaik it was never done since or before.
Was definitely frowned upon
I see Dublin are sending Division 1 champions (Castleknock) to National Feile Division 1 this year (along with the Dublin Div 2 and Div 3 champions going to play in lower divisions at National).
Last year we sent the Division 3 and 4 champions to National Feile, while the four Division 1 semi-finalists all played in smaller Regional tournaments - I think there were 6 or 8 Regional Feiles played.
So looks like there's a big change and we're back to having a genuine All Ireland National Feile, good in one sense, but apparently a lot trouble in prior years about how competitive this gets!
I remember hearing last year that Austin Stacks deliberately played Division 2 in Kerry so as to be able to go to National Feile as Kerry's representatives (the Division 1 Kerry champs only got to go to a Regional Feile), and Stacks went on to win the National Feile. Dunno if that has anything to do with the change this year and all the best teams going to Feile.
Kerry do the same with their Intermediate and Junior Grading hence their great success at AI level!
Dublin Seniof Championship over for 16 Clubs before May... Club players getting a raw deal there!!!
Quote from: screenexile on May 04, 2016, 12:07:28 AM
Dublin Seniof Championship over for 16 Clubs before May... Club players getting a raw deal there!!!
Is there not a 'Senior B' championship. All the teams that lost in the first round are placed within in competition which is run in parallel to the 'A' Championship.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 04, 2016, 04:46:39 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 04, 2016, 12:07:28 AM
Dublin Seniof Championship over for 16 Clubs before May... Club players getting a raw deal there!!!
Is there not a 'Senior B' championship. All the teams that lost in the first round are placed within in competition which is run in parallel to the 'A' Championship.
There is, but it carries no weight whatsoever.
Relegation championship there as well to clarify minds for alot of clubs.
What teams won and lost anyway?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 04, 2016, 10:33:27 AM
What teams won and lost anyway?
http://www.dublingaa.ie/competitions/results/107502 (http://www.dublingaa.ie/competitions/results/107502)
Some tasty draws in the next round
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChjLd4aWEAE_fQk.jpg:large)
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 04, 2016, 04:46:39 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 04, 2016, 12:07:28 AM
Dublin Seniof Championship over for 16 Clubs before May... Club players getting a raw deal there!!!
Is there not a 'Senior B' championship. All the teams that lost in the first round are placed within in competition which is run in parallel to the 'A' Championship.
There is, but no one really cares about it. When its is over, its over. The winner doesn't go anywhere in any other competition. They don't get to represent Dublin in Leinster or beyond.
I'd say Jim Gavin loves the straight knockout of their club championship. When the club season resumes after Dublin's intercounty season is done, only a handful of players will have any meaningful club games left to play. The majority of them will be done playing with their club for the year. They won't be likely to pick up any more injuries & they can get straight to work rehabbing any knocks they picked up over the summer. He makes out like a bandit.
Don't see anything wrong with knockout club championship in Dublin.
Nothing unfair about Lose and You're Out!
There is 15 rounds of league matches to play, and clubs can take that as seriously as they want. That gets played whether the county lads are around or not, so at least the club player has a good idea of when he has a match for most of the season.
In a year that the Dubs got to a league final and an All Ireland final, a round robin system for the club championship would be a complete and utter disaster, because the games wouldn't get played and everyone would blame the county board!
And anyway the last time we had a round robin system, there were a load of dead rubbers. The best championship games are knockout games. If the first round losers are crying, well they should be - that's why its championship!
Forgive my ignorance but was there many league games/competitive club games played before the championship ties?
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on May 04, 2016, 03:39:17 PM
Forgive my ignorance but was there many league games/competitive club games played before the championship ties?
In Dublin there has been 4 rounds of football league games (Feb 28, Mar 13, Apr 2, Apr 16) so far.
There are another 3 rounds of league matches fixed for May, so everyone will have played 7 league games by the end of this month.
There were cups games earlier in Feb that the majority of clubs take part in, but some opt out.
Ah right, thought it was strange that such a competitive championship would have been played this early, but by the sounds of things teams had enough matches to prepare for it!
The league & the championship are two different competitions. The league goes on all year around, regardless of whether the inter county players are available or not. The championship only takes place when the intercounty players are available...when the national league ends & when the Dubs get knocked out of the AI series.
Very little coverage of O'Se's sc**bag comment on here.
He's at the aul cute hoorism I think as he's much smarter than to use 'sc**bag' when there are 10 others he could have used.
He's not wrong either if the Dubs need to get involved in the nastiness they're well able for it!!!
As Jim Gavin said last year -we don't pay too much attention to what the Kerry lads say ;)
To be fair the line was "They have a mixture of, for the want of a better word, a sc**bag when they need somebody on the team to do the nasty things." sc**bag a bit strong alright and I'd say O Sé has been on to RTE as the headline has changed from sc**bag to mental strength ;D
He probably wanted to use the word 'animal', but decided that 'sc**bag' was the safer option.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on May 09, 2016, 10:38:53 AM
To be fair the line was "They have a mixture of, for the want of a better word, a sc**bag when they need somebody on the team to do the nasty things." sc**bag a bit strong alright and I'd say O Sé has been on to RTE as the headline has changed from sc**bag to mental strength ;D
good to bring it up.
There would be some craic if he used the same term to describe the behaviour of some of his own former team mates. A few of them would be well deserving of it.
Quote from: Jinxy on May 09, 2016, 11:28:25 AM
He probably wanted to use the word 'animal', but decided that 'sc**bag' was the safer option.
Well it is different from his usual bagload of cliches, or the standard "Look I suppose".
A great footballer but generally very predictable with his comments or columns.
Quote from: Declan on May 09, 2016, 10:00:45 AM
As Jim Gavin said last year -we don't pay too much attention to what the Kerry lads say ;)
It's not supposed to be towards the players. It's getting into heads of the regulators and referees! Mayo a couple of years ago were '
Streetwise'. Everyone one of them from Liston, to Spillane to Keane to the O'Se's horsed it out one by one and the Referees heard them!
He retracts then with the usual Plámásing!
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 09, 2016, 01:34:34 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 09, 2016, 10:00:45 AM
As Jim Gavin said last year -we don't pay too much attention to what the Kerry lads say ;)
It's not supposed to be towards the players. It's getting into heads of the regulators and referees! Mayo a couple of years ago were 'Streetwise'. Everyone one of them from Liston, to Spillane to Keane to the O'Se's horsed it out one by one and the Referees heard them!
He retracts then with the usual Plámásing!
+1
All this backtracking and apologising is daft. He knew full well what he was doing when he used the word sc**bag at a press conference. He knew the media would be all over it. You can't use a word like that and then just meekly take it back. It's like lobbing a hand grenade into a creche. This persona that he is has cultivated, of the plain speaking man of the people, who just calls it like it is, with no hidden agenda, is pure bullshit.
Its just more of the Kerry mind games. They did it with Tyrone because they cant accept that Tyrone beat them in two finals. Now they are under the Dublin cosh and have no option but to try and undermine a very good panel of players. This media inspired rubbish about the purity of Kerry football is completely undrrmined when you see the antics of Galvin O Mahony The O Se brothers and many more who are experts inthe dark arts
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on May 09, 2016, 10:38:53 AM
To be fair the line was "They have a mixture of, for the want of a better word, a sc**bag when they need somebody on the team to do the nasty things." sc**bag a bit strong alright and I'd say O Sé has been on to RTE as the headline has changed from sc**bag to mental strength ;D
Yes the headline didn't quite do justice to the context of the comment.
Not even a thread on the Division 1 league final, but loads of comments on a throwaway remark by an ex-player. This place is gas.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on May 09, 2016, 10:16:06 PM
Not even a thread on the Division 1 league final, but loads of comments on a throwaway remark by an ex-player. This place is gas.
And why did you not start a thread on the National League final CT?
Tomás is not just a ex-player anymore he is a Column writer with Irish Independent and a regular pundit with the Sunday game. He gets high exposure to two big media outlets and you'd expect anything that he says/writes enters the gaa realm of scrutiny. Referees start to look for things that might not be there. The use of the word
sc**bag, along with it being derogatory also draws the audience to the topic! Mission accomplished!
Tomas O'Se is 100% on a mission to portray the Dubs in as the bad guys, in the minds of refs and officials. If it wins the opposition a few handy frees, or gets Dublin players sent off, then it's job done, as far as Tomas is concerned. However, the dogs on the street already know that the likes of Philly McMahon are going to come under a lot more additional scrutiny from refs this year. We don't really need Tomas O'Se to tell us that.
I've seen O Se at games. When play stops up the field he would have a bit of a chat with the linesman or umpire making himself out to be a real nice fella. Then when it comes to the crunch he will get the 50 50 decision. O Dwyer was the same. When with Kildare he met the ref coming out of the dressing room and said "Im glad we have a good strict ref for this game" Kildare won by a point from a soft free
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 10, 2016, 08:25:26 AM
I've seen O Se at games. When play stops up the field he would have a bit of a chat with the linesman or umpire making himself out to be a real nice fella. Then when it comes to the crunch he will get the 50 50 decision. O Dwyer was the same. When with Kildare he met the ref coming out of the dressing room and said "Im glad we have a good strict ref for this game" Kildare won by a point from a soft free
What's wrong with that??!!
Use every advantage you have I'd rather have him on my time than the dickhead who constantly shouts at the referee. . . he's never getting a free!!
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 09, 2016, 04:42:00 PM
Its just more of the Kerry mind games. They did it with Tyrone because they cant accept that Tyrone beat them in two finals. Now they are under the Dublin cosh and have no option but to try and undermine a very good panel of players. This media inspired rubbish about the purity of Kerry football is completely undrrmined when you see the antics of Galvin O Mahony The O Se brothers and many more who are experts inthe dark arts
Agree with all of this
Imagine the reaction if this was an ex Tyrone player?
Quote from: rrhf on May 10, 2016, 11:13:22 AM
Imagine the reaction if this was an ex Tyrone player?
HAHAHAHA!!!!
Wind yer neck in this has zero to do with Tyrone for a change. . . contrary to the fact Tyrone are in the Irish News every day the world doesn't revolve around you!!!
Yet another paranoid Tyrone thread infection.
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 10, 2016, 08:25:26 AM
I've seen O Se at games. When play stops up the field he would have a bit of a chat with the linesman or umpire making himself out to be a real nice fella. Then when it comes to the crunch he will get the 50 50 decision. O Dwyer was the same. When with Kildare he met the ref coming out of the dressing room and said "Im glad we have a good strict ref for this game" Kildare won by a point from a soft free
The late Gerry McDermott used to tell that story regularly:
QuoteHe often told the story about one of the many championship wins they shared together in Kildare.
"At half-time Micko was annoyed with some of the [referee's] decisions but told the players to accept them even if they were wrong. As we were walking back across to the dugout, who came along but the referee. I said to myself, 'God, there's going to be some confrontation here'. Instead Micko said, 'Jesus, Johnny, you're having a mighty game! You're the best referee in the country! I'm telling yoouuu!' wagging his finger like this here.
"Well, Johnny went away with his tail wagging and the next thing we got a free in which should definitely have been a free out. We won that game by a point. When the final whistle went, Micko gave me a nudge and winked, 'It pays to praise people, you know'."
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/gerry-loved-the-game-more-so-than-the-association-178880.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/gerry-loved-the-game-more-so-than-the-association-178880.html)
Quote from: Main Street on May 10, 2016, 04:38:32 PM
Yet another paranoid Tyrone thread infection.
As the song goes
'Just because you're paranoid. Don't mean they're not after you'.
To be fair to Tomás, he got it right first time, there isn't a better word than what he used. to describe that element. "Mental strength" just sounds embarrassingly corny, like an alibi that could be only listened to in a Judge O'Connor court.
Gougers would've been a good term to use but would probably be too specific. When I was younger gouger was a more common term but incidentally the act of gouging seems more prevalent in recent years. Although I'm unsure whether the act of gouging and the term gouger have any link to one another.
Scuts.
Seriously though what the fcuk makes someone eye gouge
Dublin are winning because they are fine footballers and are on another level physically and athletically to all other teams .
A "nasty streak" has little or nothing to do with it .
Agreed they are probably good enough to win even without the eye gouging.
Quote from: rrhf on May 11, 2016, 10:18:33 PM
Seriously though what the fcuk makes someone eye gouge
Roid rage is the only thing I can think off, would explain why it is so common in Rugby. No normal person would do it.
Quote from: rrhf on May 11, 2016, 10:26:24 PM
Agreed they are probably good enough to win even without the eye gouging.
Well Ricey and Gormley gave masterclasses in it for years and you never cried foul so pot and kettle
Bullshit
Quote from: INDIANA on May 11, 2016, 10:54:17 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 11, 2016, 10:26:24 PM
Agreed they are probably good enough to win even without the eye gouging.
Well Ricey and Gormley gave masterclasses in it for years and you never cried foul so pot and kettle
Now RRHF, Ricey and Gormley were great footballers but they were no angels either.... :-)
Quote from: rrhf on May 11, 2016, 10:56:51 PM
Bullshit
They wrote the last Testament on being dirty footballers. So you have zero credibility on the subject. So toddle off would be advice
Eye eye captain
Quote from: thebuzz on May 11, 2016, 11:19:11 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 11, 2016, 10:54:17 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 11, 2016, 10:26:24 PM
Agreed they are probably good enough to win even without the eye gouging.
Well Ricey and Gormley gave masterclasses in it for years and you never cried foul so pot and kettle
Now RRHF, Ricey and Gormley were great footballers but they were no angels either.... :-)
They certainly weren't, but i cant remember either of them ever eye gouging anyone.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 11, 2016, 11:21:00 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 11, 2016, 10:56:51 PM
Bullshit
They wrote the last Testament on being dirty footballers. So you have zero credibility on the subject. So toddle off would be advice
The Dubs are Machiavellian , Indy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDHidMlViMc
Interesting article in the Irish Times today (http://"http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/blue-sky-thinker-jim-gavin-the-more-we-see-the-less-we-know-1.2640842")
A good few Dub fans I know were worried Jim was too nice a guy to manage the Dubs and was naive when it came to the new defensive systems but he looks like he's learned a lot in the past few years. His calmness on the sideline reminds me of Mickey Harte in the earlier years though it would be interesting to see how Jim would deal with playing Ulster teams all the time. I didn't like his smugness in his first season as he talked about how they play the game in the attacking way its mean't to be played which is easy to say when playing in Leinster but he's learned you have to be able to mix it to get over the line sometimes and the defeat to Donegal has taught him a lot.
There is a terrific black and white photograph of Kevin Heffernan in which the Dublin manager is walking in front of the wire-meshing where the terrace is already filling up but for some reason nobody is looking at him; they are all distracted, finding their seats. Heffo could be a ghost.
It is summer, 1981: Dublin are playing Laois. Heffernan is wearing dark pants, dark shirt and a dark sports jacket, left hand in pocket and right hand cupped around the cigarette in his mouth. His hair is silver and tousled and he looks lost in thought. In that moment, Heffernan comes as close as any GAA manager ever will to looking like Lee Marvin.
At Heffernan's funeral in Marino in 2013, the ex-Dublin gods gathered not by club but by era. All-Ireland vintages stand out. Many of the fabled 1970s figures had a role to play in the funeral ceremony but you could see Kieran Duff and the '83 gang standing together and across the lawn were members of the 1995 team.
Dark coat
Jim Gavin was a member of that side but he was also the newly appointed Dublin football manager that morning and as he stood in a dark coat paying his respects, people came up to wish him well.
All future Dublin managers will be judged against Heffernan. How could they not be? He was the creator and he burned with a charisma to which he feigned obliviousness. The stories became legion, depicting a man of a hugely bright, restless, passionate nature; a 1920s city boy made good with an absolute contrary streak.
You can be sure that Jim Gavin has plenty of interesting stories and observations about the godfather of Dublin football and you can also be sure that he will reserve them for private company. In his early days, Gavin pointedly name-checked Heffernan in setting out his vision for how he wanted his Dublin teams to play: open, expressive, go-forward football. He couldn't have made his respect for that tradition any clearer.
This summer, Gavin will attempt to guide Dublin to its third All-Ireland in four seasons and become the first manager to successfully defend an All-Ireland title since Billy Morgan of Cork in 1990. He is, in short, approaching the rarer rooms of GAA managerial success. And he has become part of the summer furniture.
If Brian Cody is a portrait photographer's dream, an Easter Island statue in a peaked cap as he stands on the side line radiating a force field of must-win, marble invincibility, then Gavin is a trickier proposition. The summer audience has become used to his ways: always seated, holding that neat folder; the precise, occasional sips of water; the considered way he re-screws the cap on the bottle and the cool appraisal of all he surveys. Everything about his body language invites the eye to pass by.
Jim Gavin watches broiling championship matches with the emotion of a man attending a long afternoon meeting of the company's midterm financial returns. If that has left him open to the accusation of smugness, then he can live with it.
Gavin is unfailingly polite in his media duties and sees them as just that. He hasn't shown the remotest interest in palling-up to the GAA's media fraternity.
After-match, he is always on message and pretty much says the same thing. The only time he ever gets thorny is when he is questioned about disciplinary matters on the pitch. Beyond that, Gavin's remarks tend to carry the soothing briskness of a public relations man; formal and officious and respectful of whatever team the Dubs have just demolished.
Metamorphosis
The approach seems in keeping with the national perception that Dublin GAA has made a frightening metamorphosis in the past half decade: the flashy AIG sponsorship; the emergence of the city clubs as regular All-Ireland winners; the fund-raising sprees; the daunting talent and depth within the senior squad.
The view elsewhere is that 'Dublin' isn't so much a county team now as a huge, businesslike entity that is just going to keep on growing and growing. It is the Google of the GAA world. And Jim Gavin is its CEO.
But that's from the outside looking in.
"One thing about Jim: a spade is a spade," says former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, who first met Gavin in his days as minister for defence and developed a friendship through Dublin GAA.
"He is an army man through and through. I used to be minister of state in defence and you know with all army people, discipline and camaraderie is a huge part of it. United team: no hostilities, no enmities. Clear facts. He is not an arrogant kind of person who would give it shouting down a microphone. The facts and analysis would be given but it would stay in-house.
"The camaraderie would be there as long as you can carry out your instructions and do your best. Then, you can cry on his shoulder. And don't expect anything other than harsh treatment if you don't do that. And I think that's why things are so organised in the squad.
"And I think people appreciate the huge time commitment he puts in. Preparation, one to one, all winter, talking to guys, analysing guys, making it clear what you need to do to do better, to get more game time, what to do in the gym, all that. After the All-Ireland last year, he was doing that a week later. In the old days, we all know where they would have been. That takes huge discipline, but it takes a passion as well."
That word 'passion' is one of the most common in the GAA lexicon but it is hugely relevant when it comes to Gavin, precisely because he manages to keep his own emotions disguised.
One of the contradictions about Dublin GAA is that although the current team are held up as proof that standards are moving towards professionalism, Gavin is absolute in his support for the amateur ethos. And behind the veneer of professionalism, he is a volunteer.
"Automatically people assume you have loads of resources, people with you, a big squad and plenty of options," says Paddy Christie, Gavin's former team-mate and the manager of the Dublin minors.
"That would be very far off the mark. Firstly, if you have a bigger backroom team, you have to manage those people also. So he has to allow them to operate and yet keep tabs on what is going on. The sheer volume of people is one thing that can be underestimated.
"People always assume the bigger, the better. That's true to an extent, but it has its drawbacks. That goes with the squad as well. There might be only 18 or 19 getting a run on the field and that leaves half your panel, whether it is substitutes or guys not getting into the match-day squad, who are likely to be unhappy. And that is a real challenge. Jim's a modest fella and wouldn't want anyone making a big deal, but one of the very practical things he has done is allow fellas to go off and play with their clubs if they are not involved in match-day panels. And I do think that is a clever idea."
Christie is aware of the perception that Dublin have all the cards, all the advantages. He accepts that the GAA set-up within the county is strong right now and isn't downplaying it. But for instance, when he takes his minor team on away trips, his jaw drops at some of the centres of excellence around the country.
His Dublin team moves from ground to ground. The main hub is DCU. "Which is brilliant but it belongs to DCU. It's not as if there is a place we go and you'll see Jim there and Dessie Farrell and we have a big clubhouse where all the stuff is hung."
Volunteer work
His point is simple. "If you scratch beneath the surface, it still very much depends a lot on volunteer work. That's why I feel people going on about the financial thing is unfair: because it disrespects the work already done over a number of years. Whatever success there is – and let's not get carried away, we have won a few All-Irelands – was based on the volunteer work that was done by people in clubs and by development squads where nobody saw it and got not much thanks for it."
One of the areas where Dublin have made a significant impact in the past 15 years is at under-21 level. Gavin and Declan Darcy were invited by Tommy Lyons to coach the 2003 vintage and duly delivered the county's first All-Ireland at the grade. "He stood out a mile as a leader," Lyons said of Gavin afterwards. And he did, in a low-key single-minded way.
In retrospect, Gavin was always a likely contender. He wasn't precocious but he was always a presence and always achieving at a phenomenal rate.
At Round Towers, they still list the six Cumann na mBunscol medals he won with Clonburris NS with pride. He was a Dublin minor in 1988 and 1989 and spent the following years concentrating on the Army life – one of the 30 accepted to that year's cadet corps; one of six to qualify to the Air Corps.
When Ahern was taoiseach, his pilot on the government jet was often Jim Gavin.
"He was on what was called the beach-craft. When we had to go to Brussels or England or up and down to the North a lot during the talks. So you got to know him. He is a kind of a guy where sometimes when you are with him you'd think that the only thing that the fella has in his life is aviation. He is passionate about air safety, standards. And he flies the aircraft himself.
"But he manages to compartmentalise so well, family, aviation, sport. Jim always says it's a match and a bit of fun as well. But there are ways of making fun . . . better organised."
Gavin played a full decade for Dublin; never a star but always there. His apprenticeship as a manager followed. In 2009, he put himself forward for interview for the Dublin senior post which went to Pat Gilroy. His response was to win another All-Ireland Under-21 title as manager the following year. It was always a matter of when.
"Not surprised in some ways but I suppose just how quickly it all happened is something else," says Sean Finnegan, his former manager with the Defence Forces team.
"I'm delighted for him and he was always going to be in management. It was a perfect storm with the quality of players he has. It is the volume of success they are having that is incredible. It can appear very easy but it's certainly not. He is a very shrewd, methodical, calm individual who logically processes things."
Conspicuous failure
Gavin is operating under a burden of what, for many, would be considered intolerable expectation. Dublin won the 2013 All-Ireland final against Mayo by a single point. By the following August, they were considered virtually unbeatable when they faced Donegal in that year's semi-final; that defeat and the manner in which it was conjured by Jim McGuinness stands as the lone, conspicuous failure of Gavin's championship form line.
"People talk about the Donegal match as casting a shadow on the overall record. In fairness, Donegal were very good that year and I think they probably should have won the All-Ireland," says Christie.
"If that is the only thing that is held against them, well, that's unfair. That's why we play a championship: to see if these things happen. Pat Gilroy's team in 2010 will still be haunted by that Cork game. Nobody talks about that anymore but I felt that was one that got away from Dublin. If you go back further to Pillar's era, the team was being built up and had to deal with some bad defeats."
By his own standards, Gavin looked a little ruffled on the sideline that afternoon against Donegal in that he actually left his seat. Afterwards, he said the right things, disappeared and re-emerged for the 2015 season having drafted the blueprint for a sticky and diligent Dublin drift-defence revolving around the excellent positional versatility of Cian O'Sullivan. Dublin retained the league and won the All-Ireland championship back. As a managerial response, it couldn't have been more comprehensive.
This year, Dublin will defend their All-Ireland title without the reigning footballer of the year, Jack McCaffrey. They will contest it without the current All-Star fullback Rory O'Carroll. Both men have decided to take a year off to pursue the world beyond football. Gavin wished them luck but it wasn't what he said that was significant as much as how he sounded: proud of them; that they were able to step outside the bubble for a season, and proud that his squad could facilitate that.
His Dublin team are 6/5 favourites to win the All-Ireland title. They are 1/16 to retain Leinster. Kildare, the second favourites are 14/1. Gavin manages in an environment which presumes the Dubs will win, week in and week out. Their combination of physical prowess, foot-passing, sophisticated movement, collective understanding and deathless hunger means they will overwhelm teams by posting scores which will leave counties dispirited of ever beating the city team again. This is Jim Gavin's Dublin and he will watch on impassively.
"I'd say there is more tension than he shows on his face," says Ahern.
Next five minutes
"He is a thinker. He is all the time working out the next move. He used to give out about Pillar; that Pillar was slow to bring in substitutes. And he was a bit, even though Pillar is a great friend of mine. But Jim uses the bench all the time and I think he is always working out the next five minutes; looking to see what the stats are telling him. He doesn't do the jumping up and down and losing it with linesmen. He is very calm and methodical. He is a planner and a strategist."
Ahern's first memory of Dublin football teams is of Down visiting for a national league game in 1959. The metropolitans were All-Ireland champions. It was a chimera: after winning the Sam Maguire again in 1963, Dublin's fortunes plummeted and the team disappeared.
"I used to say to my brothers and Da: will we ever see Dublin win a big match?"
So he belongs to the generation of Dublin supporters for whom what is happening is faintly miraculous. Ahern is impatient at the notion that Dublin are simply too good and too big now: that the city machine will roll eternally through the seasons.
"We have been very good players coming through but the reality is that there are seven or eight guys that are the core of that team. Most of that core has three medals now; some have two. And they will move on as sure as night follows day. There won't be eight guys to fill those eight positions. It doesn't happen like that. Even this year will be difficult. In the 1970s we were in six All-Ireland finals in a row. The idea that Dublin will win the next five or six All-Irelands . . . it won't happen. I keep saying that to the younger supporters. These things come and they go."
He might be right. If this year's football championship stays obedient to the deeply grooved form lines, then Kerry and Dublin will meet in the All-Ireland semi-final. It will be a reprise of April's league final but more than that, it will be the most eagerly anticipated clash between the football's glamour counties since Heffernan gave the city game its first narcotic rush.
If Dublin are still champions next September, the acknowledgements may flow that this is the greatest city team of all time. Expect no emotional outburst from the manager. Jim Gavin always insists that it is not about him; he is merely there to facilitate the players. And he always deflects the emphasis onto them when the game is over. But he has turned an extremely good team into an exceptional one.
Carry on
"There is no big swagger about them," says Christie. "They go out and play. There's a bit of humility about them. I think they have more options on the bench now. They've a better mix of players. There is a confidence and composure there that when things go wrong, they can carry on and function. They do something simple, settle it down. That was absent in years before. It's very grounded. Nobody goes berserk about it anymore and some people would say that's a pity because there's not as much excitement. But that's the way to do it. That's how Tyrone did it during their successful era."
Is this just an era then? Time will tell. The more we see of Jim Gavin, the less we know of him other than that this fastidious, detached public figure has designed a breathtaking Gaelic football team. Maybe that's the message. If you want to know what Jim Gavin is about, you only have to watch his team.
The Times do a profile of Jim Gavin & Bertie Ahern is their main go to guy for an opinion?
Um, ok then. ::)
Quote from: Beffs on May 12, 2016, 12:49:29 PM
The Times do a profile of Jim Gavin & Bertie Ahern is their main go to guy for an opinion?
Um, ok then. ::)
Yeah I struggled through it up to that point and then stopped reading. What a load of wánk.
Getting the input of someone who knows him from his aviation days is fine.... but Jesus, could they not find someone who doesn't make readers want to kick their cat, whenever they see his name in print?
Gavin didn't design the team> Didn't Pillar win the al Ireland with them a few years ago ?
Quote from: seafoid on May 12, 2016, 01:22:06 PM
Gavin didn't design the team> Didn't Pillar win the al Ireland with them a few years ago ?
You mean Gilroy?
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 12, 2016, 11:17:21 AM
...
This summer, Gavin will attempt to guide Dublin to its third All-Ireland in four seasons and become the first manager to successfully defend an All-Ireland title since Billy Morgan of Cork in 1990. He is, in short, approaching the rarer rooms of GAA managerial success. And he has become part of the summer furniture.
...
When Ahern was taoiseach, his pilot on the government jet was often Jim Gavin.
"He was on what was called the beach-craft. When we had to go to Brussels or England or up and down to the North a lot during the talks. So you got to know him. He is a kind of a guy where sometimes when you are with him you'd think that the only thing that the fella has in his life is aviation. He is passionate about air safety, standards. And he flies the aircraft himself.
What a fooking shoddy article, they'll be going krackers in the Kingdom at that shite! ;)
And lord knows what a 'beach-craft' [sic] is, but I wouldn't fancy taking to the skies in it! :P
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 12, 2016, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 12, 2016, 11:17:21 AM
...
This summer, Gavin will attempt to guide Dublin to its third All-Ireland in four seasons and become the first manager to successfully defend an All-Ireland title since Billy Morgan of Cork in 1990. He is, in short, approaching the rarer rooms of GAA managerial success. And he has become part of the summer furniture.
...
When Ahern was taoiseach, his pilot on the government jet was often Jim Gavin.
"He was on what was called the beach-craft. When we had to go to Brussels or England or up and down to the North a lot during the talks. So you got to know him. He is a kind of a guy where sometimes when you are with him you'd think that the only thing that the fella has in his life is aviation. He is passionate about air safety, standards. And he flies the aircraft himself.
What a fooking shoddy article, they'll be going krackers in the Kingdom at that shite! ;)
And lord knows what a 'beach-craft' [sic] is, but I wouldn't fancy taking to the skies in it! :P
WTF are you on about. He will be the first since Billy Morgan. Kerry changed their manager between 2006-07.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 12, 2016, 09:32:55 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 12, 2016, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 12, 2016, 11:17:21 AM
...
This summer, Gavin will attempt to guide Dublin to its third All-Ireland in four seasons and become the first manager to successfully defend an All-Ireland title since Billy Morgan of Cork in 1990. He is, in short, approaching the rarer rooms of GAA managerial success. And he has become part of the summer furniture.
...
When Ahern was taoiseach, his pilot on the government jet was often Jim Gavin.
"He was on what was called the beach-craft. When we had to go to Brussels or England or up and down to the North a lot during the talks. So you got to know him. He is a kind of a guy where sometimes when you are with him you'd think that the only thing that the fella has in his life is aviation. He is passionate about air safety, standards. And he flies the aircraft himself.
What a fooking shoddy article, they'll be going krackers in the Kingdom at that shite! ;)
And lord knows what a 'beach-craft' [sic] is, but I wouldn't fancy taking to the skies in it! :P
WTF are you on about. He will be the first since Billy Morgan. Kerry changed their manager between 2006-07.
After a while on this board you realise the education system in the North of Ireland isn't what it's cracked up to be
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 12, 2016, 09:32:55 PM
WTF are you on about. He will be the first since Billy Morgan. Kerry changed their manager between 2006-07.
Fair cop guv'nor, though I'm still taking to no skies in a 'beach-craft' (maybe take her for a run out on Dollymount)! ;)
It's a wonder Bertie isn't part of the Dublin backroom team by now.
Quote from: muppet on May 12, 2016, 01:24:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 12, 2016, 01:22:06 PM
Gavin didn't design the team> Didn't Pillar win the al Ireland with them a few years ago ?
You mean Gilroy?
I wasn't following it that closely tbh. someone else won it .Must have been gilroy
Definitely Gilroy - we only got to a couple of semi finals under Pillar.
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 13, 2016, 04:48:11 PM
Definitely Gilroy - we only got to a couple of semi finals under Pillar.
Didn't Pillar and Gilroy do a lot of the work.of building the current team?
I think the hyperbole about the Dubs taking over is over the top. 4 all Irelands in over 30 years is below the long term average.
I would agree on the hyperbole, and most of it comes from outside the county - I remember the same stuff being written on this board in Spring 2014, all about Dublin's Thousand Year Reich. I said then that we had only beaten Mayo by a point the previous year, and the Kerry team we had beaten in the semi final was transitioning at the time.
I certainly wasn't happy to be proven right that year, but right I was. If there is a difference between then and now it is that we are not running up the same scores against the weaker teams as we did then but the control we exert over the stronger teams is startling - look at Kerry and Donegal twice in the league this year and I still maintain you could replay last year's AIF 10 times and we would win it ten times. But this has more to do with the standard of teams against us, rather than us taking a quantum leap. Don't get me wrong. I think we are the best team in the country, but I also think that other teams haven't figured out the questions we ask yet.
Kerry I think are really interesting, as there are a lot of parallels between them coming to the end of the last decade and where they are now. They seem to have a fetish for holding onto players for a lot longer than would be viable in other counties. Some of them are great players, but I remember them refashioning Eoin Brosnan as a centre back, back then, and I think that kind of stuff just doesn't work at the highest level. Players like Marc O Se and Aidan O'Mahony, Donnacha Walsh, even the Gooch to some extent, are all well and good in the league and in Munster - because their natural ability and muscle memory gets them through - but they are not able physically anymore for the very highest level, which is Dublin at the moment. If the answer is Kieran Donaghy at full forward, you are asking the wrong question. Kerry don't seem prepared for the years of retrenchment which are needed to rebuild a side (especially since they got an All Ireland out of them in 2014, but I'd argue that was a championship the Dubs threw away rather than Kerry dominated)
People seem to forget that it was in Gilroy's third year he won an All Ireland - in the years leading up to it, he took Cullen from centre back to wing forward, unearthed gems like McCauley, resolved the full back issue with Rory O'Carroll, recast the half back line with Brennan, Nolan and McCarthy, shifted Barry Cahill to third midfielder/CF, gave Alan Brogan a roving brief from corner forward to CF and put Berno and Diarmud Brogan inside. To do all this, he dropped a load of Pillar's stalwarts, endured a hiding from Kerry in 2009, went to extra time against Wexford in Leinster the following year, before a hiding from Meath in the final (where a load of lads I know from Meath told me in Jurys after that we were ten years away from Sam), before losing a narrow semi to Cork.
You have to go through that to rebuild and Gilroy was just the kind of hard-bitten Vincents man we neeed to do it. But Gavin's genius, and he does have a genius for it, I think, was to do the same kind of thing that Pep Guardiola did at Barca after Rijkaard's reign (who also won a Champions League, though it is often forgotten). He changed the squad and changed the style (remember Gilroy was criticized for the defensiveness of his teams) and turned what was a tank into a Maserati.
However - even he will be up against it to replace McCaffrey and O'Carroll. McCaffrey's pure pace gave an extra dimension to our attacking play, and we are lot more lateral when he isn't skinning players. Rory is, pure and simple, the best full back of this decade, not flashy, not brash, but a pure old school Darren Fay type of intelligent defender. You don't replace guys like that.
Throw in Berno coming to the end of his career (sharp and all as he was against Kerry in the League Final), Gavin's reliance on Bastick at the expense of McAuley (we need him back firing - him and Fenton would be a savage midfield) and the kind of carelessness that Philly and Dermo showed against Kerry, and we might be a different animal in Champo then people think. We certainly won't dominate the rest of the decade as most people seem to assume.
That said, the poverty of Leinster football will mean we will be regulars in quarters and semis, no matter what happens. Meath, Kildare and Offaly need to get it together, for their own sakes as much as for Leinster football.
Quote from: seafoid on May 13, 2016, 05:23:17 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 13, 2016, 04:48:11 PM
Definitely Gilroy - we only got to a couple of semi finals under Pillar.
Didn't Pillar and Gilroy do a lot of the work.of building the current team?
I think the hyperbole about the Dubs taking over is over the top. 4 all Irelands in over 30 years is below the long term average.
As Mark Twain once put it; there are three types of lie, namely lies,
damn lies and statistics. No offence intended but your post belongs to the third category, without doubt.
Dunno why you went back thirty years because for 25 of them, Dublin won just a single title. You could feel sorry for the poor buggers if you let statistics go to your head. Kerry won a total of 8 in the Last 3w0 years- if you go by ststs, Kerry must be 8 times better than the Dubs.
In a rapidly changing world, only about a max of five years can be taken as an accurate barometer of anything. The Dubs' dominance is set to continue for the foreseeable future and I believe that an average of five out of every ten years will see the Dubs winning Sam. (Same as the trend has been over the last five years.)
Between 20005 and 2015, Dublin failed to win the Leinster title only once.
From a long-term point of view, there is cause for worry there.
If the likes of, say, Meath, Kildare and Laois couldn't win one between then in the last ten years, there's something wrong with the structures and it's going to get worse not better.
One can talk about Kerry and Kilkenny having long periods of dominance but no valid comparison can be drawn between those two and Dublin.
In terms of population, playing numbers and wealth, neither stands out from their competitors. Kilkenny has far fewer clubs than Cork, Tipp and I imagine Dublin. Kerry has won far more Sams than their playing numbers and resources would warrant.
Dublin have as fine a team as I've seen in a long, long time but there's no denying that the odds of them landing Sam in any year in the future are shortening all the time.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 13, 2016, 07:27:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 13, 2016, 05:23:17 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 13, 2016, 04:48:11 PM
Definitely Gilroy - we only got to a couple of semi finals under Pillar.
Didn't Pillar and Gilroy do a lot of the work.of building the current team?
I think the hyperbole about the Dubs taking over is over the top. 4 all Irelands in over 30 years is below the long term average.
As Mark Twain once put it; there are three types of lie, namely lies,
damn lies and statistics. No offence intended but your post belongs to the third category, without doubt.
Dunno why you went back thirty years because for 25 of them, Dublin won just a single title. You could feel sorry for the poor buggers if you let statistics go to your head. Kerry won a total of 8 in the Last 3w0 years- if you go by ststs, Kerry must be 8 times better than the Dubs.
In a rapidly changing world, only about a max of five years can be taken as an accurate barometer of anything. The Dubs' dominance is set to continue for the foreseeable future and I believe that an average of five out of every ten years will see the Dubs winning Sam. (Same as the trend has been over the last five years.)
Between 20005 and 2015, Dublin failed to win the Leinster title only once.
From a long-term point of view, there is cause for worry there.
If the likes of, say, Meath, Kildare and Laois couldn't win one between then in the last ten years, there's something wrong with the structures and it's going to get worse not better.
One can talk about Kerry and Kilkenny having long periods of dominance but no valid comparison can be drawn between those two and Dublin.
In terms of population, playing numbers and wealth, neither stands out from their competitors. Kilkenny has far fewer clubs than Cork, Tipp and I imagine Dublin. Kerry has won far more Sams than their playing numbers and resources would warrant.
Dublin have as fine a team as I've seen in a long, long time but there's no denying that the odds of them landing Sam in any year in the future are shortening all the time.
Lar they have a good team . Might win another 2. And Leinster is a mess. But domination is a pipe dream.
And Mayo will win stuff once the duck is broken. And they could pick.up 3 in the next decade ceteris pari Roscommon bus.
What is most interesting about now is the regularity with which Kerry get their arses handed to them in all Ireland finals.
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 13, 2016, 06:03:46 PM
People seem to forget that it was in Gilroy's third year he won an All Ireland - in the years leading up to it, he took Cullen from centre back to wing forward, unearthed gems like McCauley, resolved the full back issue with Rory O'Carroll, recast the half back line with Brennan, Nolan and McCarthy, shifted Barry Cahill to third midfielder/CF, gave Alan Brogan a roving brief from corner forward to CF and put Berno and Diarmud Brogan inside. To do all this, he dropped a load of Pillar's stalwarts, endured a hiding from Kerry in 2009, went to extra time against Wexford in Leinster the following year, before a hiding from Meath in the final (where a load of lads I know from Meath told me in Jurys after that we were ten years away from Sam), before losing a narrow semi to Cork.
You have to go through that to rebuild and Gilroy was just the kind of hard-bitten Vincents man we neeed to do it. But Gavin's genius, and he does have a genius for it, I think, was to do the same kind of thing that Pep Guardiola did at Barca after Rijkaard's reign (who also won a Champions League, though it is often forgotten). He changed the squad and changed the style (remember Gilroy was criticized for the defensiveness of his teams) and turned what was a tank into a Maserati.
He did all that and he also was responsible for the current steely, never-say-die resolve that was noticeably absent in earlier Dublin teams. For all the praise that Gavin gets, I don't think that Gilroy gets near enough the credit that he deserves. Gavin has done a lot of things right in his time, but he is constructing his Dublin team, from a foundation that Gilroy largely was responsible for laying, especially in the mental strength department.
Ok lets look at the Myth of Leinster Football.
Looking beyond Dublin, Meath up to lately used to win 50% of the titles Dublin won. A 2:1 Ratio. That has collapsed lately. Dublin and meath have 75 titles between them. Looking at the rest of the counties they have 54 between. Which looks ok until you see that 33 were won before the end of WW2. Offaly came good in the 60's through to the 70's and the 80's. Kildare were there or there abouts in the late 90's.
Really when we say Leinster is weak, we really mean Meath are Weak?
Kildare who we say (think) are a strong county have won two Leinster titles in the last 60 years. They have not won a Leinster since 2000.
Offaly One title in the last 34 years. Last title 1997.
Wexford Last title 1945.
Louth Last title 1957.
Laois One title in 70 years. Last title 2003.
Carlow last title and only 1945.
Longford Last title and only 1968.
Westmeath last and only title 2004.
Kilkenny last title 1911
Wake me up when HQ admits they've consciously created a world devouring monster.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 13, 2016, 10:09:39 PM
Ok lets look at the Myth of Leinster Football.
Looking beyond Dublin, Meath up to lately used to win 50% of the titles Dublin won. A 2:1 Ratio. That has collapsed lately. Dublin and meath have 75 titles between them. Looking at the rest of the counties they have 54 between. Which looks ok until you see that 33 were won before the end of WW2. Offaly came good in the 60's through to the 70's and the 80's. Kildare were there or there abouts in the late 90's.
Really when we say Leinster is weak, we really mean Meath are Weak?
Kildare who we say (think) are a strong county have won two Leinster titles in the last 60 years. They have not won a Leinster since 2000.
Offaly One title in the last 34 years. Last title 1997.
Wexford Last title 1945.
Louth Last title 1957.
Laois One title in 70 years. Last title 2003.
Carlow last title and only 1945.
Longford Last title and only 1968.
Westmeath last and only title 2004.
Kilkenny last title 1911
In last 20 years Dublin have won 11 Leinsters, Meath 4, Kildare 2, Laois, Offaly & Westmeath 1 each
In 20 years before that Dublin won 12 Leinsters, Meath 5 and Offaly 3
So what exactly is your point? Dublin dominate Leinster, always have and always will. Kerry do the same in Munster. Mayo now doing so in Connacht.
The other teams in Leinster have regressed because of their own failings and inadequacies. They will continue to fail until they get their heads out of their backsides, put proper structures in place as many non Leinster counties have done and stop constantly whinging & moaning about Dublin.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 13, 2016, 11:48:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 13, 2016, 10:09:39 PM
Ok lets look at the Myth of Leinster Football.
Looking beyond Dublin, Meath up to lately used to win 50% of the titles Dublin won. A 2:1 Ratio. That has collapsed lately. Dublin and meath have 75 titles between them. Looking at the rest of the counties they have 54 between. Which looks ok until you see that 33 were won before the end of WW2. Offaly came good in the 60's through to the 70's and the 80's. Kildare were there or there abouts in the late 90's.
Really when we say Leinster is weak, we really mean Meath are Weak?
Kildare who we say (think) are a strong county have won two Leinster titles in the last 60 years. They have not won a Leinster since 2000.
Offaly One title in the last 34 years. Last title 1997.
Wexford Last title 1945.
Louth Last title 1957.
Laois One title in 70 years. Last title 2003.
Carlow last title and only 1945.
Longford Last title and only 1968.
Westmeath last and only title 2004.
Kilkenny last title 1911
In last 20 years Dublin have won 11 Leinsters, Meath 4, Kildare 2, Laois, Offaly & Westmeath 1 each
In 20 years before that Dublin won 12 Leinsters, Meath 5 and Offaly 3
So what exactly is your point? Dublin dominate Leinster, always have and always will. Kerry do the same in Munster. Mayo now doing so in Connacht.
The other teams in Leinster have regressed because of their own failings and inadequacies. They will continue to fail until they get their heads out of their backsides, put proper structures in place as many non Leinster counties have done and stop constantly whinging & moaning about Dublin.
''Enfin je me rappelai le pis-aller d'une grande princesse à qui l'on disait que les paysans n'avaient pas de pain, et qui répondit : Qu'ils mangent de la brioche''
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 13, 2016, 11:48:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 13, 2016, 10:09:39 PM
Ok lets look at the Myth of Leinster Football.
Looking beyond Dublin, Meath up to lately used to win 50% of the titles Dublin won. A 2:1 Ratio. That has collapsed lately. Dublin and meath have 75 titles between them. Looking at the rest of the counties they have 54 between. Which looks ok until you see that 33 were won before the end of WW2. Offaly came good in the 60's through to the 70's and the 80's. Kildare were there or there abouts in the late 90's.
Really when we say Leinster is weak, we really mean Meath are Weak?
Kildare who we say (think) are a strong county have won two Leinster titles in the last 60 years. They have not won a Leinster since 2000.
Offaly One title in the last 34 years. Last title 1997.
Wexford Last title 1945.
Louth Last title 1957.
Laois One title in 70 years. Last title 2003.
Carlow last title and only 1945.
Longford Last title and only 1968.
Westmeath last and only title 2004.
Kilkenny last title 1911
In last 20 years Dublin have won 11 Leinsters, Meath 4, Kildare 2, Laois, Offaly & Westmeath 1 each
In 20 years before that Dublin won 12 Leinsters, Meath 5 and Offaly 3
So what exactly is your point? Dublin dominate Leinster, always have and always will. Kerry do the same in Munster. Mayo now doing so in Connacht.
The other teams in Leinster have regressed because of their own failings and inadequacies. They will continue to fail until they get their heads out of their backsides, put proper structures in place as many non Leinster counties have done and stop constantly whinging & moaning about Dublin.
They have regressed because of their thoughts and their words as well as what they have done and failed to do.
Meath and Kildare are the most shocking cases.
The Dubs would look a lot less impressive if Mayo were winning their share of Sams.
Winning is in large part psychological and the Dubs have the edge over Kerry as well. But the notion of a thousand year Reich is nuts .
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 06:03:56 AM
The Dubs would look a lot less impressive if Mayo were winning their share of Sams.
Winning is in large part psychological and the Dubs have the edge over Kerry as well. But the notion of a thousand year Reich is nuts .
Dublin win because at the minute they have the best team, better footballers and a desire & hunger to keep winning as all great teams do.
Share of SAMs?? Mayo have not won because of physchological shortcomings. More so because they are not as good as Dublin and the year recently Dublin didn't make it to the final they got done by inept& incompetent ref in semi replay v Kerry. No guarantee they would have beaten Donegal in final but you would have fancied them to.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 06:03:56 AM
The Dubs would look a lot less impressive if Mayo were winning their share of Sams.
Winning is in large part psychological and the Dubs have the edge over Kerry as well. But the notion of a thousand year Reich is nuts .
Dublin win because at the minute they have the best team, better footballers and a desire & hunger to keep winning as all great teams do.
Share of SAMs?? Mayo have not won because of physchological shortcomings. More so because they are not as good as Dublin and the year recently Dublin didn't make it to the final they got done by inept& incompetent ref in semi replay v Kerry. No guarantee they would have beaten Donegal in final but you would have fancied them to.
the psych thing is what prevented Mayo from winning 2 of the last 5 all Irelands
the Dubs had it 91 to 94 as well of course...
But they made it over the line in 95
If Mayo can win one Sam they will kick on and develop even further
dubs have been going since 09 maybe so have a lot of mileage on the clock
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 06:03:56 AM
The Dubs would look a lot less impressive if Mayo were winning their share of Sams.
Winning is in large part psychological and the Dubs have the edge over Kerry as well. But the notion of a thousand year Reich is nuts .
Dublin win because at the minute they have the best team, better footballers and a desire & hunger to keep winning as all great teams do.
Share of SAMs?? Mayo have not won because of physchological shortcomings. More so because they are not as good as Dublin and the year recently Dublin didn't make it to the final they got done by inept& incompetent ref in semi replay v Kerry. No guarantee they would have beaten Donegal in final but you would have fancied them to.
the psych thing is what prevented Mayo from winning 2 of the last 5 all Irelands
the Dubs had it 91 to 94 as well of course...
But they made it over the line in 95
If Mayo can win one Sam they will kick on and develop even further
dubs have been going since 09 maybe so have a lot of mileage on the clock
If they were to win one they would obviously get great lift from it. However Mayo team has as much if not more mileage on the clock than current Dublin team. Recent additions to starting 15 include Byrne, Cooper, Small, McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny, Rock, Mannion & Costello. Another 4 or 5 younger lads close to getting a chance / breaking into the team. Granted the likes of Connolly, Flynn, McCarthy are around 5/6 years now but they're only in mid to late 20s so plenty of football in those guys yet.
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 06:03:56 AM
The Dubs would look a lot less impressive if Mayo were winning their share of Sams.
Winning is in large part psychological and the Dubs have the edge over Kerry as well. But the notion of a thousand year Reich is nuts .
Dublin win because at the minute they have the best team, better footballers and a desire & hunger to keep winning as all great teams do.
Share of SAMs?? Mayo have not won because of physchological shortcomings. More so because they are not as good as Dublin and the year recently Dublin didn't make it to the final they got done by inept& incompetent ref in semi replay v Kerry. No guarantee they would have beaten Donegal in final but you would have fancied them to.
the psych thing is what prevented Mayo from winning 2 of the last 5 all Irelands
the Dubs had it 91 to 94 as well of course...
But they made it over the line in 95
If Mayo can win one Sam they will kick on and develop even further
dubs have been going since 09 maybe so have a lot of mileage on the clock
If they were to win one they would obviously get great lift from it. However Mayo team has as much if not more mileage on the clock than current Dublin team. Recent additions to starting 15 include Byrne, Cooper, Small, McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny, Rock, Mannion & Costello. Another 4 or 5 younger lads close to getting a chance / breaking into the team. Granted the likes of Connolly, Flynn, McCarthy are around 5/6 years now but they're only in mid to late 20s so plenty of football in those guys yet.
Mayo and Kerry will fade away in a year or two. Donegal are nearly gone. Tyrone are moving up a level, but that level is only equal to the teams named. Leinster is a graveyard. The game is up. Dublin will have it all to themselves, Leagues, Leinsters and All Irelands. There is no doubt about it. They hold all the ace cards! Can you tell me one disadvantage they have from the beginning of the League to the All Ireland final? One? Their fans don't want to let on, but in their heart of hearts they know. Everybody knows. Crowds are falling year after year. Even the Dubs won't be bothered in time to come.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 14, 2016, 01:18:00 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 06:03:56 AM
The Dubs would look a lot less impressive if Mayo were winning their share of Sams.
Winning is in large part psychological and the Dubs have the edge over Kerry as well. But the notion of a thousand year Reich is nuts .
Dublin win because at the minute they have the best team, better footballers and a desire & hunger to keep winning as all great teams do.
Share of SAMs?? Mayo have not won because of physchological shortcomings. More so because they are not as good as Dublin and the year recently Dublin didn't make it to the final they got done by inept& incompetent ref in semi replay v Kerry. No guarantee they would have beaten Donegal in final but you would have fancied them to.
the psych thing is what prevented Mayo from winning 2 of the last 5 all Irelands
the Dubs had it 91 to 94 as well of course...
But they made it over the line in 95
If Mayo can win one Sam they will kick on and develop even further
dubs have been going since 09 maybe so have a lot of mileage on the clock
If they were to win one they would obviously get great lift from it. However Mayo team has as much if not more mileage on the clock than current Dublin team. Recent additions to starting 15 include Byrne, Cooper, Small, McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny, Rock, Mannion & Costello. Another 4 or 5 younger lads close to getting a chance / breaking into the team. Granted the likes of Connolly, Flynn, McCarthy are around 5/6 years now but they're only in mid to late 20s so plenty of football in those guys yet.
Mayo and Kerry will fade away in a year or two. Donegal are nearly gone. Tyrone are moving up a level, but that level is only equal to the teams named. Leinster is a graveyard. The game is up. Dublin will have it all to themselves, Leagues, Leinsters and All Irelands. There is no doubt about it. They hold all the ace cards! Can you tell me one disadvantage they have from the beginning of the League to the All Ireland final? One? Their fans don't want to let on, but in their heart of hearts they know. Everybody knows. Crowds are falling year after year. Even the Dubs won't be bothered in time to come.
And some people want to get rid of the provincial championships so everyone can experience the hopelessness of being a Leinster county.
Quote from: Syferus on May 14, 2016, 01:20:52 PM
And some people want to get rid of the provincial championships so everyone can experience the hopelessness of being a Leinster county.
At this stage the best solution would be to have the 10 impoverished Leinster teams playing in a separate championship and let Dublin have a bye to the AI quarter finals. May as well forget about qualifiers as no other Leinster team will get close to an AI final for the forseeable future.
Two groups of 5 with each team guaranteed a minimum 4 games. The two top teams progress to the semi finals while the second and third teams from each group meet in the quarter finals.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 14, 2016, 01:18:00 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 06:03:56 AM
The Dubs would look a lot less impressive if Mayo were winning their share of Sams.
Winning is in large part psychological and the Dubs have the edge over Kerry as well. But the notion of a thousand year Reich is nuts .
Dublin win because at the minute they have the best team, better footballers and a desire & hunger to keep winning as all great teams do.
Share of SAMs?? Mayo have not won because of physchological shortcomings. More so because they are not as good as Dublin and the year recently Dublin didn't make it to the final they got done by inept& incompetent ref in semi replay v Kerry. No guarantee they would have beaten Donegal in final but you would have fancied them to.
the psych thing is what prevented Mayo from winning 2 of the last 5 all Irelands
the Dubs had it 91 to 94 as well of course...
But they made it over the line in 95
If Mayo can win one Sam they will kick on and develop even further
dubs have been going since 09 maybe so have a lot of mileage on the clock
If they were to win one they would obviously get great lift from it. However Mayo team has as much if not more mileage on the clock than current Dublin team. Recent additions to starting 15 include Byrne, Cooper, Small, McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny, Rock, Mannion & Costello. Another 4 or 5 younger lads close to getting a chance / breaking into the team. Granted the likes of Connolly, Flynn, McCarthy are around 5/6 years now but they're only in mid to late 20s so plenty of football in those guys yet.
Mayo and Kerry will fade away in a year or two. Donegal are nearly gone. Tyrone are moving up a level, but that level is only equal to the teams named. Leinster is a graveyard. The game is up. Dublin will have it all to themselves, Leagues, Leinsters and All Irelands. There is no doubt about it. They hold all the ace cards! Can you tell me one disadvantage they have from the beginning of the League to the All Ireland final? One? Their fans don't want to let on, but in their heart of hearts they know. Everybody knows. Crowds are falling year after year. Even the Dubs won't be bothered in time to come.
Tyrone and Galway will be close enough within 3 or 4 years. Mayo will still be interested. Cork will be around Kerry will have another team. Meath might even come around.
The Dubs will do a Man Utd. Too long with the same winning formula.
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 05:39:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 14, 2016, 01:18:00 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 06:03:56 AM
The Dubs would look a lot less impressive if Mayo were winning their share of Sams.
Winning is in large part psychological and the Dubs have the edge over Kerry as well. But the notion of a thousand year Reich is nuts .
Dublin win because at the minute they have the best team, better footballers and a desire & hunger to keep winning as all great teams do.
Share of SAMs?? Mayo have not won because of physchological shortcomings. More so because they are not as good as Dublin and the year recently Dublin didn't make it to the final they got done by inept& incompetent ref in semi replay v Kerry. No guarantee they would have beaten Donegal in final but you would have fancied them to.
the psych thing is what prevented Mayo from winning 2 of the last 5 all Irelands
the Dubs had it 91 to 94 as well of course...
But they made it over the line in 95
If Mayo can win one Sam they will kick on and develop even further
dubs have been going since 09 maybe so have a lot of mileage on the clock
If they were to win one they would obviously get great lift from it. However Mayo team has as much if not more mileage on the clock than current Dublin team. Recent additions to starting 15 include Byrne, Cooper, Small, McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny, Rock, Mannion & Costello. Another 4 or 5 younger lads close to getting a chance / breaking into the team. Granted the likes of Connolly, Flynn, McCarthy are around 5/6 years now but they're only in mid to late 20s so plenty of football in those guys yet.
Mayo and Kerry will fade away in a year or two. Donegal are nearly gone. Tyrone are moving up a level, but that level is only equal to the teams named. Leinster is a graveyard. The game is up. Dublin will have it all to themselves, Leagues, Leinsters and All Irelands. There is no doubt about it. They hold all the ace cards! Can you tell me one disadvantage they have from the beginning of the League to the All Ireland final? One? Their fans don't want to let on, but in their heart of hearts they know. Everybody knows. Crowds are falling year after year. Even the Dubs won't be bothered in time to come.
Tyrone and Galway will be close enough within 3 or 4 years. Mayo will still be interested. Cork will be around Kerry will have another team. Meath might even come around.
The Dubs will do a Man Utd. Too long with the same winning formula.
If the dubs do a Man United then you are looking at another 15 years of Dublin dominance. Lack of competition could mean that Dublin will stroll to All Ireland titles in the years ahead at least right now Kerry,Mayo been competitive against them.
GF goes through phases. Meath kerry Galway lasted 6 years. Tyrone won 3 in 5. Kerry picked up a few other than the finals against Tyrone. Now the Dubs have 3. Players age. Tactics evolve. Managers lose their mojo. Hunger pops up elsewhere. It is very hard to win an all Ireland.
I would be surprised if the Dubs won 2 out of the next 10.
Prepare to be surprised so. The Dubs will win at least 4 of the next ten, probably more.
Quote from: Syferus on May 14, 2016, 01:20:52 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 14, 2016, 01:18:00 PM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: Hill16 Blues on May 14, 2016, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2016, 06:03:56 AM
The Dubs would look a lot less impressive if Mayo were winning their share of Sams.
Winning is in large part psychological and the Dubs have the edge over Kerry as well. But the notion of a thousand year Reich is nuts .
Dublin win because at the minute they have the best team, better footballers and a desire & hunger to keep winning as all great teams do.
Share of SAMs?? Mayo have not won because of physchological shortcomings. More so because they are not as good as Dublin and the year recently Dublin didn't make it to the final they got done by inept& incompetent ref in semi replay v Kerry. No guarantee they would have beaten Donegal in final but you would have fancied them to.
the psych thing is what prevented Mayo from winning 2 of the last 5 all Irelands
the Dubs had it 91 to 94 as well of course...
But they made it over the line in 95
If Mayo can win one Sam they will kick on and develop even further
dubs have been going since 09 maybe so have a lot of mileage on the clock
If they were to win one they would obviously get great lift from it. However Mayo team has as much if not more mileage on the clock than current Dublin team. Recent additions to starting 15 include Byrne, Cooper, Small, McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny, Rock, Mannion & Costello. Another 4 or 5 younger lads close to getting a chance / breaking into the team. Granted the likes of Connolly, Flynn, McCarthy are around 5/6 years now but they're only in mid to late 20s so plenty of football in those guys yet.
Mayo and Kerry will fade away in a year or two. Donegal are nearly gone. Tyrone are moving up a level, but that level is only equal to the teams named. Leinster is a graveyard. The game is up. Dublin will have it all to themselves, Leagues, Leinsters and All Irelands. There is no doubt about it. They hold all the ace cards! Can you tell me one disadvantage they have from the beginning of the League to the All Ireland final? One? Their fans don't want to let on, but in their heart of hearts they know. Everybody knows. Crowds are falling year after year. Even the Dubs won't be bothered in time to come.
And some people want to get rid of the provincial championships so everyone can experience the hopelessness of being a Leinster county.
That's one way to look at it, another imminently more sensible way of looking at it is Dublin would be far less likely to win every year if they had to face all the top teams each year - you know, the way most sports go about it.
There is no top teams. There is one top team. Manufactured and fully endorsed by the GAA because they were afraid of the egg ball's growth in the capital. What a wonderful organisation the GAA is.
Remind what Dublin have beaten Mayo, Donegal and Kerry by in recent championships? Of course Dublin are ahead of the pack but if they had to meet the top teams regularly then the chances of them getting caught are increased. The GAA correctly invested in the main population centre in Ireland and that, allied to the great work volunteer GAA members do in Dublin, has delivered results. Similar investment should go to other counties but it won't produce the same results because of the population but Kildare, Meath and many others could close the gap significantly and Dublin won't produce Cluxtons, Connollys and Brogans every decade. Anyone who thinks the provincial system will improve the game is daft IMO. The sooner we acknowledge the different levels in the GAA the better.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on May 14, 2016, 03:06:30 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 14, 2016, 01:20:52 PM
And some people want to get rid of the provincial championships so everyone can experience the hopelessness of being a Leinster county.
At this stage the best solution would be to have the 10 impoverished Leinster teams playing in a separate championship and let Dublin have a bye to the AI quarter finals. May as well forget about qualifiers as no other Leinster team will get close to an AI final for the forseeable future.
Two groups of 5 with each team guaranteed a minimum 4 games. The two top teams progress to the semi finals while the second and third teams from each group meet in the quarter finals.
Surely Donegal are the proof that that is not necessarily true. Donegal were ranked 19th in the country at the end of 2010. Nine months later they were Ulster champions and a kick of the ball from the AI final. True, we had a few outstanding players, but those lads were all there in the period 2007-2010 when we were very poor and poorly managed. Everyone says that none of the Leinster counties have the players to challenge at the very top, but you would have said the same about us going into 2011. The likes of Karl Lacey, Michael Murphy and Kevin Cassidy had achieved All Star and Young Player of the Year awards, but our squad was hardly the source of envy. Yes, Dublin being as they are mean none of the Leinster counties will win a provincial for the next couple of years, but there is nothing stopping them upping their game and making a run at an AI semi through the qualifiers if they get the right man in to run things. Especially as the likes of Mayo and Kerry follow Donegal into transition.
You're clutching at straws, J70. Dublin have sapped away any fight left in Leinster counties. And they're in the process of doing the same to everyone else. Can you really blame them when the deck is so heavily stacked in the favour of Dublin? It's a shell game, one or two upsets are no more than a passing distraction. Nonsense talk that it's even those counties' faults is just that. Very easy for the ivory tower dwellers to blame the poor feckers on the ground floor.
Quote from: Syferus on May 14, 2016, 10:21:09 PM
You're clutching at straws, J70. Dublin have sapped away any fight left in Leinster counties. And they're in the process of doing the same to everyone else. Can you really blame them when the deck is so heavily stacked in the favour of Dublin? It's a shell game, one or two upsets are no more than a passing distraction. Nonsense talk that it's even those counties' faults is just that. Very easy for the ivory tower dwellers to blame the poor feckers on the ground floor.
What the blue blazes does that mean? Dublin have a huge population and are now utilizing that so of course they'll dominate counties with less than 100,000 people. What do you suggest the GAA do?
Quote from: Zulu on May 14, 2016, 10:45:51 PM
What the blue blazes does that mean? Dublin have a huge population and are now utilizing that so of course they'll dominate counties with less than 100,000 people. What do you suggest the GAA do?
At a very minimum development funds for Dublin should not be greater than other counties on a per capita basis. This would not achieve much but at least it would remove one source of unfairness.
Ok, that's fair enough in a way but we shouldn't be throwing money at everybody in a 'lets be fair about it' way. Before a county gets extra funding they need to prove they'll use it to make a difference. Certain counties are underperforming and they could do a bit better through better organisation and coaching alone.
I just don't see the point in giving out about the Dubs when it's obvious that a county with over 1 million people will beat counties with around 100,000 more often than not if they have their act together. This is the system we have and it's brilliant in many ways but fair it isn't or ever was.
Quote from: Zulu on May 14, 2016, 10:45:51 PM
Quote from: Syferus on May 14, 2016, 10:21:09 PM
You're clutching at straws, J70. Dublin have sapped away any fight left in Leinster counties. And they're in the process of doing the same to everyone else. Can you really blame them when the deck is so heavily stacked in the favour of Dublin? It's a shell game, one or two upsets are no more than a passing distraction. Nonsense talk that it's even those counties' faults is just that. Very easy for the ivory tower dwellers to blame the poor feckers on the ground floor.
What the blue blazes does that mean? Dublin have a huge population and are now utilizing that so of course they'll dominate counties with less than 100,000 people. What do you suggest the GAA do?
I'd tell 'em to go and f**k off but I imagine Syf is more conciliatory type of chap than I am.
But if he says that they should take the logical step of dividing the greater Dublin in four since it has been so divided into four separate local government areas. I mean Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, Fingal, Dublin City and South Dublin are now to all intents and purposes, separate and distinct counties. Since all other counties can only field one team, and many are finding it harder and harder to do even that, it's not fair that four counties can continue to play as a single unit.
Now if Syf doesn't intend to state the obvious and point out the glaring anomaly in the present system, I won't be able to agree with him, will I?
Won't stop me thinking that way although. ;D
Dublin minor hurlers knocked Kilkenny out of the championship yesterday. Kilkenny really need to get their act together.
Quote from: Syferus on May 14, 2016, 10:21:09 PM
You're clutching at straws, J70. Dublin have sapped away any fight left in Leinster counties. And they're in the process of doing the same to everyone else. Can you really blame them when the deck is so heavily stacked in the favour of Dublin? It's a shell game, one or two upsets are no more than a passing distraction. Nonsense talk that it's even those counties' faults is just that. Very easy for the ivory tower dwellers to blame the poor feckers on the ground floor.
What is happening with Meath and Kildare now is embarrassing, irrespective of how close they are to Dublin, they should be at the very least competing seriously at the business end of the Championship. Kildare getting a 30 odd point hammering from Kerry last year was scary. I think both Meath and Kildare have the players to be top 10 teams at the minute, but there is something badly lacking in their approach and mentality to the game.
Martin McHugh may have had a point when he said the Celtic Tiger ruined Meath. Both Meath and Kildare would have double the gaelic football playing population of any Ulster county with the exception of Donegal.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0515/788523-longford-determined-despite/
I think Connerton's comments speak volumes really. When even the manager of a county in Leinster is saying there's nothing really to play for in terms of winning silverware, the province is f*cked.
Quote from: Zulu on May 14, 2016, 11:41:36 PM
Ok, that's fair enough in a way but we shouldn't be throwing money at everybody in a 'lets be fair about it' way. Before a county gets extra funding they need to prove they'll use it to make a difference. Certain counties are underperforming and they could do a bit better through better organisation and coaching alone.
I just don't see the point in giving out about the Dubs when it's obvious that a county with over 1 million people will beat counties with around 100,000 more often than not if they have their act together. This is the system we have and it's brilliant in many ways but fair it isn't or ever was.
By your own logic, then surely the way to instill even a modicum of fairness would be to split Dublin?
But then again, that wouldn't do anything to help Leitrim or Fermanagh.
The population disparity effects are built into the GAA system at all levels, from the club up.
I wouldn't say it's logical to split Dublin and, as you say, it wouldn't help most counties anyway but the GAA created a system that was never fair and never will be. Now that counties properly prepare and invest in development of players the bigger counties will rarely be beaten by smaller ones. The current system is going to be very uncompetitive from here on in.
We have Senior, Intermediate and Junior clubs.
Can we not have the same for Counties??
Quote from: Zulu on May 15, 2016, 11:50:49 AM
I wouldn't say it's logical to split Dublin and, as you say, it wouldn't help most counties anyway but the GAA created a system that was never fair and never will be. Now that counties properly prepare and invest in development of players the bigger counties will rarely be beaten by smaller ones. The current system is going to be very uncompetitive from here on in.
Convenient.
Implement spending caps at county board level.
We regularly hear it costed X to prepare such and such team last year.
Now there would be ways around it, but if you stuck a cap on what a county could spend on an individual senior team, would that make it any better?
The county boards would love a rule like that.
Making it apply to each individual team would avoid the likes of KK getting a leg up on Cork, Dublin etc. who have to support competitive teams in both codes.
I'll start the ball rolling and say you cannot spend more than €500,000 preparing a team.
Now that's way more than most counties will spend, but you have to start somewhere and that will specifically target the top teams.
Quote from: Syferus on May 15, 2016, 12:30:53 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 15, 2016, 11:50:49 AM
I wouldn't say it's logical to split Dublin and, as you say, it wouldn't help most counties anyway but the GAA created a system that was never fair and never will be. Now that counties properly prepare and invest in development of players the bigger counties will rarely be beaten by smaller ones. The current system is going to be very uncompetitive from here on in.
Convenient.
Eh?
Quote from: Jinxy on May 15, 2016, 12:55:06 PM
Implement spending caps at county board level.
We regularly hear it costed X to prepare such and such team last year.
Now there would be ways around it, but if you stuck a cap on what a county could spend on an individual senior team, would that make it any better?
The county boards would love a rule like that.
Making it apply to each individual team would avoid the likes of KK getting a leg up on Cork, Dublin etc. who have to support competitive teams in both codes.
I'll start the ball rolling and say you cannot spend more than €500,000 preparing a team.
Now that's way more than most counties will spend, but you have to start somewhere and that will specifically target the top teams.
But you can't monitor that effectively, which you admit yourself, and why should we be looking at solutions that bring the best back into the pack rather than looking to improve the chasing pack?
You can monitor it effectively.
The way around it is all the external funding that bigger counties are able to bring in, that would allow them to bypass the 'transparent' funding pathways.
Your solution Zulu, is no solution.
The money is not there to bring most counties anywhere near to Dublins standard, although it's not purely a question of money.
By your rationale, if one of the Sheikhs decided to hand Kildare a blank cheque every year it would be up to everyone else to find some russian oligarch or chinese tycoon to bankroll them.
It's a race to the bottom and to be honest I find it immoral that counties would spend exorbitant amounts of money preparing one team.
That money could be put to much better use developing and supporting the game within their own county.
Quote from: Zulu on May 15, 2016, 01:06:53 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 15, 2016, 12:55:06 PM
Implement spending caps at county board level.
We regularly hear it costed X to prepare such and such team last year.
Now there would be ways around it, but if you stuck a cap on what a county could spend on an individual senior team, would that make it any better?
The county boards would love a rule like that.
Making it apply to each individual team would avoid the likes of KK getting a leg up on Cork, Dublin etc. who have to support competitive teams in both codes.
I'll start the ball rolling and say you cannot spend more than €500,000 preparing a team.
Now that's way more than most counties will spend, but you have to start somewhere and that will specifically target the top teams.
But you can't monitor that effectively, which you admit yourself, and why should we be looking at solutions that bring the best back into the pack rather than looking to improve the chasing pack?
The 'other sports' you referred to earlier do it already.
Quote from: Jinxy on May 15, 2016, 01:22:41 PM
You can monitor it effectively.
The way around it is all the external funding that bigger counties are able to bring in, that would allow them to bypass the 'transparent' funding pathways.
Your solution Zulu, is no solution.
The money is not there to bring most counties anywhere near to Dublins standard, although it's not purely a question of money.
By your rationale, if one of the Sheikhs decided to hand Kildare a blank cheque every year it would be up to everyone else to find some russian oligarch or chinese tycoon to bankroll them.
It's a race to the bottom and to be honest I find it immoral that counties would spend exorbitant amounts of money preparing one team.
That money could be put to much better use developing and supporting the game within their own county.
How do you expect the GAA to be able to enforce a €500,000 cap for all 32 counties and in both codes? It's impossible.
I'm also not saying we should be spending huge sums of money on IC but I don't see how capping spending so that we all can only invest X amount is a workable solution to anything.
Where should we force counties to cut down their spend - on S&C? On medical care? On travelling expenses? On gear or food for players?
Quote from: Syferus on May 15, 2016, 01:22:52 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 15, 2016, 01:06:53 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 15, 2016, 12:55:06 PM
Implement spending caps at county board level.
We regularly hear it costed X to prepare such and such team last year.
Now there would be ways around it, but if you stuck a cap on what a county could spend on an individual senior team, would that make it any better?
The county boards would love a rule like that.
Making it apply to each individual team would avoid the likes of KK getting a leg up on Cork, Dublin etc. who have to support competitive teams in both codes.
I'll start the ball rolling and say you cannot spend more than €500,000 preparing a team.
Now that's way more than most counties will spend, but you have to start somewhere and that will specifically target the top teams.
But you can't monitor that effectively, which you admit yourself, and why should we be looking at solutions that bring the best back into the pack rather than looking to improve the chasing pack?
The 'other sports' you referred to earlier do it already.
Care to elaborate? I hope you're not referring to salary caps either as that's entirely different but enlighten us on what happens in these sports
Quote from: Zulu on May 15, 2016, 02:01:53 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 15, 2016, 01:22:41 PM
You can monitor it effectively.
The way around it is all the external funding that bigger counties are able to bring in, that would allow them to bypass the 'transparent' funding pathways.
Your solution Zulu, is no solution.
The money is not there to bring most counties anywhere near to Dublins standard, although it's not purely a question of money.
By your rationale, if one of the Sheikhs decided to hand Kildare a blank cheque every year it would be up to everyone else to find some russian oligarch or chinese tycoon to bankroll them.
It's a race to the bottom and to be honest I find it immoral that counties would spend exorbitant amounts of money preparing one team.
That money could be put to much better use developing and supporting the game within their own county.
How do you expect the GAA to be able to enforce a €500,000 cap for all 32 counties and in both codes? It's impossible.
I'm also not saying we should be spending huge sums of money on IC but I don't see how capping spending so that we all can only invest X amount is a workable solution to anything.
Where should we force counties to cut down their spend - on S&C? On medical care? On travelling expenses? On gear or food for players?
I think the training weekends abroad should be banned personally.Not necessary.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 15, 2016, 02:27:13 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 15, 2016, 02:01:53 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 15, 2016, 01:22:41 PM
You can monitor it effectively.
The way around it is all the external funding that bigger counties are able to bring in, that would allow them to bypass the 'transparent' funding pathways.
Your solution Zulu, is no solution.
The money is not there to bring most counties anywhere near to Dublins standard, although it's not purely a question of money.
By your rationale, if one of the Sheikhs decided to hand Kildare a blank cheque every year it would be up to everyone else to find some russian oligarch or chinese tycoon to bankroll them.
It's a race to the bottom and to be honest I find it immoral that counties would spend exorbitant amounts of money preparing one team.
That money could be put to much better use developing and supporting the game within their own county.
How do you expect the GAA to be able to enforce a €500,000 cap for all 32 counties and in both codes? It's impossible.
I'm also not saying we should be spending huge sums of money on IC but I don't see how capping spending so that we all can only invest X amount is a workable solution to anything.
Where should we force counties to cut down their spend - on S&C? On medical care? On travelling expenses? On gear or food for players?
I think the training weekends abroad should be banned personally.Not necessary.
To a certain extent I agree with this, but at the same time it's a nice reward for the players who train hard all year round with little reward.
I'm having a hard time seeing how a 5 day, warm weather training camp in the middle of April is going to benefit you massively in August or September. I understand the sports science behind them, but there is such a big gap between when these training camps take place and the champo really gets going, can they really be of that much use, in the heat of championship? I think it's interesting that the Dubs don't go on them.
Quote from: Beffs on May 15, 2016, 02:59:26 PM
I'm having a hard time seeing how a 5 day, warm weather training camp in the middle of April is going to benefit you massively in August or September. I understand the sports science behind them, but there is such a big gap between when these training camps take place and the champo really gets going, can they really be of that much use, in the heat of championship? I think it's interesting that the Dubs don't go on them.
Dublin's riches are of far more interest to everyone else. Distraction tactics by Indiana, as usual.
Quote from: Syferus on May 15, 2016, 03:19:17 PM
Quote from: Beffs on May 15, 2016, 02:59:26 PM
I'm having a hard time seeing how a 5 day, warm weather training camp in the middle of April is going to benefit you massively in August or September. I understand the sports science behind them, but there is such a big gap between when these training camps take place and the champo really gets going, can they really be of that much use, in the heat of championship? I think it's interesting that the Dubs don't go on them.
Dublin's riches are of far more interest to everyone else. Distraction tactics by Indiana, as usual.
What that has to do with my post, I have no idea.
Read your last line. Thanks.
Yeah, the Dubs don't go on them. Which backs up the point that they are of limited value/over rated. What does that have to do with anyone else's posts?
Quote from: Beffs on May 15, 2016, 02:59:26 PM
I'm having a hard time seeing how a 5 day, warm weather training camp in the middle of April is going to benefit you massively in August or September. I understand the sports science behind them, but there is such a big gap between when these training camps take place and the champo really gets going, can they really be of that much use, in the heat of championship? I think it's interesting that the Dubs don't go on them.
I think the primary benefit of them would be the team bonding aspect that comes with it.
Yeah, that worked out real well for the Cork footballers, didn't it? ::)
You can do plenty of team bonding at Carton House or Fota. Or at any number of other venues around the country. You don't need to get on a plane and fly to Portugal to do that.
Quote from: Beffs on May 15, 2016, 04:10:00 PM
Yeah, that worked out real well for the Cork footballers, didn't it? ::)
You can do plenty of team bonding at Carton House or Fota. Or at any number of other venues around the country. You don't need to get on a plane and fly to Portugal to do that.
I said that was the benefit to the teams from a training/tactical point of view. As I said in a different post, I wouldn't begrudge IC players a week away after all that they put into the game. Is going abroad that much more expensive than Carlton House? Honest question, is the place not meant to cost a fortune? Besides, anyone can turn up and watch what you're doing.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on May 15, 2016, 04:55:47 PM
Quote from: Beffs on May 15, 2016, 04:10:00 PM
Yeah, that worked out real well for the Cork footballers, didn't it? ::)
You can do plenty of team bonding at Carton House or Fota. Or at any number of other venues around the country. You don't need to get on a plane and fly to Portugal to do that.
I said that was the benefit to the teams from a training/tactical point of view. As I said in a different post, I wouldn't begrudge IC players a week away after all that they put into the game. Is going abroad that much more expensive than Carlton House? Honest question, is the place not meant to cost a fortune? Besides, anyone can turn up and watch what you're doing.
It'd be cheaper to go to portugal or similar, flights, accommodation and better weather included than either of the venues you cite.
Quote from: Zulu on May 15, 2016, 02:01:53 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 15, 2016, 01:22:41 PM
You can monitor it effectively.
The way around it is all the external funding that bigger counties are able to bring in, that would allow them to bypass the 'transparent' funding pathways.
Your solution Zulu, is no solution.
The money is not there to bring most counties anywhere near to Dublins standard, although it's not purely a question of money.
By your rationale, if one of the Sheikhs decided to hand Kildare a blank cheque every year it would be up to everyone else to find some russian oligarch or chinese tycoon to bankroll them.
It's a race to the bottom and to be honest I find it immoral that counties would spend exorbitant amounts of money preparing one team.
That money could be put to much better use developing and supporting the game within their own county.
How do you expect the GAA to be able to enforce a €500,000 cap for all 32 counties and in both codes? It's impossible.
I'm also not saying we should be spending huge sums of money on IC but I don't see how capping spending so that we all can only invest X amount is a workable solution to anything.
Where should we force counties to cut down their spend - on S&C? On medical care? On travelling expenses? On gear or food for players?
The quickest and easiest way to reduce spending is to have fewer training sessions.
Everyone agrees the ratio of training sessions to games is ridiculous anyway.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 15, 2016, 08:58:20 AM
Dublin minor hurlers knocked Kilkenny out of the championship yesterday. Kilkenny really need to get their act together.
Ran in to the father in law this morning.
Dublin beat the minors he said, exasperatedly.
The footballers or hurlers I asked.
Great start to the week.
21 pages of slander, jealousy and self pity.!
Cap the money all you want, Dublin teams with their natural footballing ability will be dominating for the foreseeable future, so get use to it unless you go and join the set up in your own counties and get your own counties in order.
Kerry have one of the biggest companies in the world sponsoring them and get anything they want. for example GPS trackers for their U-16 Girls team.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on May 16, 2016, 01:05:05 PM
21 pages of slander, jealousy and self pity.!
Cap the money all you want, Dublin teams with their natural footballing ability will be dominating for the foreseeable future, so get use to it unless you go and join the set up in your own counties and get your own counties in order.
Kerry have one of the biggest companies in the world sponsoring them and get anything they want. for example GPS trackers for their U-16 Girls team.
When the Kerry U16 girls are winning the league and Sam Maguire every year hammering all in sight we'll start worrying about them.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-matching-the-dubs-is-proving-a-costly-affair-1.2651067
There are few GAA tropes more boring than the 'ball-hopping' Kerry man.
Quote from: ballinaman on May 18, 2016, 12:09:16 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-matching-the-dubs-is-proving-a-costly-affair-1.2651067
At least he is being honest when he says Kerry have the biggest and wealthiest sponsor in the country and they get everything the want. I dont begrudge them.
But they have a serious problem down there that their money is not good enough anymore to beat the most naturally gifted footballing team ever to play the game in Dublin.
The best part of the article is the comments at the end.
Just to highlight a lot of Kerry's all Irelands in the years gone by are flawed due to lack of opposition. Take away 20 All Irelands.
Nobody complained at the "Munster Championship" farce with Kerry having to beat just a couple of hurling counties every year. It ensured success and provided confidence and motivation. In Mick O'Dwyer's first year in charge, Kerry had a bye to the Munster Final. That is the type of opposition that they faced. Of course it was a scandal but nobody complained.
Quote from: Jinxy on May 18, 2016, 12:21:01 PM
There are few GAA tropes more boring than the 'ball-hopping' Kerry man.
Objection!!!
Quote from: The Aristocrat on May 18, 2016, 11:54:51 PM
Just to highlight a lot of Kerry's all Irelands in the years gone by are flawed due to lack of opposition. Take away 20 All Irelands.
Nobody complained at the "Munster Championship" farce with Kerry having to beat just a couple of hurling counties every year. It ensured success and provided confidence and motivation. In Mick O'Dwyer's first year in charge, Kerry had a bye to the Munster Final. That is the type of opposition that they faced. Of course it was a scandal but nobody complained.
Not true, there was a year later on at their peak (1980?) that Kerry did get a bye through to the final, might have been following on from the Miltown Malbay massacre probably. They played Tipp in 1975 before meeting Cork I think.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on May 19, 2016, 10:11:36 AM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on May 18, 2016, 11:54:51 PM
Just to highlight a lot of Kerry's all Irelands in the years gone by are flawed due to lack of opposition. Take away 20 All Irelands.
Nobody complained at the "Munster Championship" farce with Kerry having to beat just a couple of hurling counties every year. It ensured success and provided confidence and motivation. In Mick O'Dwyer's first year in charge, Kerry had a bye to the Munster Final. That is the type of opposition that they faced. Of course it was a scandal but nobody complained.
Not true, there was a year later on at their peak (1980?) that Kerry did get a bye through to the final, might have been following on from the Miltown Malbay massacre probably. They played Tipp in 1975 before meeting Cork I think.
Owenmoresider correct here...in 1980 Kerry played only three championship games - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon. Was that a "handy" title for Kerry, beating teams with players who would be very close to being the best of all time in Matt Connor and Dermot Earley? Or was 1997 "handier" beating Clare, Tipp, Cavan and Mayo?
Imo Kerry desparately trying to shake off the flat track bully tag. They need a blue ribbon win in the AIF (Dublin but I think Tyrone would be acceptable).
For all the great players Kerry had the last decade and a half or so, they imo again cannot really brag too much amongst their own down there as they will be brought down a peg or two by fans used to the 1970s/1980s successes.
Tyrone and recently Dublin really grates with them.
Quote from: Canalman on May 19, 2016, 11:44:24 AM
Imo Kerry desparately trying to shake off the flat track bully tag. They need a blue ribbon win in the AIF (Dublin but I think Tyrone would be acceptable).
For all the great players Kerry had the last decade and a half or so, they imo again cannot really brag too much amongst their own down there as they will be brought down a peg or two by fans used to the 1970s/1980s successes.
Tyrone and recently Dublin really grates with them.
Sure they beat Tyrone last year. Or do you mean just in the Final itself?
A lot of ye seem to thinking Tyrone are back in the top 3 or 4 teams of Ireland again.
Whilst we have got to the semis in 2013 and last year it has been a LONG time (2008) since we beat one of the big guns including Cork, Donegal, Mayo, Kerry and Dublin.
In 2013 we beat Monaghan in the 1/4 final and lost by 6 points to Mayo.
In 2015 we again beat Monaghan in the 1/4 final and lost by 4 points to Kerry.
I think we have made progress but when it comes to those big games you need a little bit extra to get you over the line. Sean Cavanagh isn't the player he was 5 years ago.
We no longer have the forwards to compete against the main contenders and I can see us struggle again in Ulster v Donegal or Monaghan if we get that far.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2016, 11:45:35 AM
Quote from: Canalman on May 19, 2016, 11:44:24 AM
Imo Kerry desparately trying to shake off the flat track bully tag. They need a blue ribbon win in the AIF (Dublin but I think Tyrone would be acceptable).
For all the great players Kerry had the last decade and a half or so, they imo again cannot really brag too much amongst their own down there as they will be brought down a peg or two by fans used to the 1970s/1980s successes.
Tyrone and recently Dublin really grates with them.
Sure they beat Tyrone last year. Or do you mean just in the Final itself?
Yeah, meant the final itself. No good winning a great semi final and losing the final as Donegal learnt the hard way in 2014.
Forgot to add Down to the earlier post about a blue ribbon win for Kerry. Possibly Galway or Meath also.
In fairness to them , it is a great situation to be in to be picky about who they beat in an AIF. Imo of course.
To be honest, I don't think Kerry really rank All Irelands in that way. It annoys them when they feel they are struggling with a given team (Tyrone in the noughties, Dublin now) but I don't think winning an All Ireland against anyone else is ranked any lower. Beating the Dubs or Tyrone at any stage does them.
I'm sure they'd love to win an All Ireland v Dublin, but if you offered them 1 v Dublin or 2 or 3 v 'others', they'd take the 2 or 3. They are all about the notches on the belt.
I disagree AZ and not just cos I'm from Tyrone.
I think listening to a few of that team what lost to Tyrone those 3 times during the noughties, now that they are retired I think they would have happily sacrificed two wins v Mayo or Cork for one against us, to put us in our place.
It's the same now against Dublin I feel. They have really got under their skin and when you have as many AIs as Kerry have its all about beating your biggest rivals not to just add another one to the belt. I could be wrong though.
You tend to notice Kerry can be nice in defeat if a team beats them in a once off but they are a different animal when they reckon you are getting one over on them. They are used to coming to Croker ever summer expecting to win but they now find themselves expecting to lose to the Dubs year after year.
You could be right. But the lads I speak to would say differently, at least. But then I suppose they all have different opinions too, they hardly all believe the same thing. That said, I do know Kerry just love winning All Irelands. They regard it as their duty, and I don't think they really weigh up the opponent at the end of the year.
I dont think any of the Dublin panel believe this we are unbeatable talk. Once August comes knockout matches come and any of the top five can raise their game to win once.
But certainly resources are coming more and more in to it and players in weaker counties just wont do it any more. Can we really see a day when good traditonal counties like Offaly will compete for an All Ireland?
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 19, 2016, 02:23:06 PM
I disagree AZ and not just cos I'm from Tyrone.
I think listening to a few of that team what lost to Tyrone those 3 times during the noughties, now that they are retired I think they would have happily sacrificed two wins v Mayo or Cork for one against us, to put us in our place.
It's the same now against Dublin I feel. They have really got under their skin and when you have as many AIs as Kerry have its all about beating your biggest rivals not to just add another one to the belt. I could be wrong though.
You tend to notice Kerry can be nice in defeat if a team beats them in a once off but they are a different animal when they reckon you are getting one over on them. They are used to coming to Croker ever summer expecting to win but they now find themselves expecting to lose to the Dubs year after year.
Not so sure about that. Watched Daragh O'Se being interviewed last year. He was asked that very question - would you trade a couple of your "softer" All Irelands (sorry Mayo & Cork) for one win against Tyrone in their pomp. He said no way...having the Celtic Cross is what matters most, not who you had to beat, or didn't beat, to get it.
Then again, a Tyrone man was sitting beside him on the sofa. He was smirking widely at the question even being asked. So maybe Daragh didn't want to give him the satisfaction of knowing how badly all the loses to Tyrone hurt.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 19, 2016, 02:23:06 PM
I disagree AZ and not just cos I'm from Tyrone.
I think listening to a few of that team what lost to Tyrone those 3 times during the noughties, now that they are retired I think they would have happily sacrificed two wins v Mayo or Cork for one against us, to put us in our place.
It's the same now against Dublin I feel. They have really got under their skin and when you have as many AIs as Kerry have its all about beating your biggest rivals not to just add another one to the belt. I could be wrong though.
You tend to notice Kerry can be nice in defeat if a team beats them in a once off but they are a different animal when they reckon you are getting one over on them. They are used to coming to Croker ever summer expecting to win but they now find themselves expecting to lose to the Dubs year after year.
Madness... History will show Kerry were the team of the Noughties winning 5 All Ireland to Tyrone's 3 not that Tyrone beat them a few times over the decade. People make it out as if Tyrone weren't in the same competition the years they didn't win it or that they took time off or something!
I'm sure it hurts them not have beaten Tyrone more often, and I'm sure the current lads are sick of the sight of Dublin. But in Kerry they ask 'How many All Irelands medals have you?', not 'Who did you beat to get them?'.
Quote from: Beffs on May 19, 2016, 02:36:49 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 19, 2016, 02:23:06 PM
I disagree AZ and not just cos I'm from Tyrone.
I think listening to a few of that team what lost to Tyrone those 3 times during the noughties, now that they are retired I think they would have happily sacrificed two wins v Mayo or Cork for one against us, to put us in our place.
It's the same now against Dublin I feel. They have really got under their skin and when you have as many AIs as Kerry have its all about beating your biggest rivals not to just add another one to the belt. I could be wrong though.
You tend to notice Kerry can be nice in defeat if a team beats them in a once off but they are a different animal when they reckon you are getting one over on them. They are used to coming to Croker ever summer expecting to win but they now find themselves expecting to lose to the Dubs year after year.
Not so sure about that. Watched Daragh O'Se being interviewed last year. He was asked that very question - would you trade a couple of your "softer" All Irelands (sorry Mayo & Cork) for one win against Tyrone in their pomp. He said no way...having the Celtic Cross is what matters most, not who you had to beat, or didn't beat, to get it.
Then again, a Tyrone man was sitting beside him on the sofa. He was smirking widely at the question even being asked. So maybe Daragh didn't want to give him the satisfaction of knowing how badly all the loses to Tyrone hurt.
Are you joking me? Did you see how Kerry players celebrated when they beat Tyrone in 2012. Paul Galvin cried like a baby! The last couple of years Dara has worked as a co-commentator for Sky. In every game involving Tyrone, You can hear in his voice the disgust when Tyrone would pull away at the end of a game. The hurt is there!
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2016, 02:40:33 PM
I'm sure it hurts them not have beaten Tyrone more often, and I'm sure the current lads are sick of the sight of Dublin. But in Kerry they ask 'How many All Irelands medals have you?', not 'Who did you beat to get them?'.
Of course Only medals are looked at - It's the same in every county, nobody ever looks at the loser. But that group were/are haunted by their record against Tyrone during that period.
You're mixing up two things. The hypothesis was that Kerry value the All Irelands they have won less than one they would have won v Tyrone (or Dublin). I do not believe that to be the case, because as I've said, all they care about is celtic crosses in their arse pocket. They don't give a shite who they beat in a final, as long as they are the ones winning it.
*However* I do agree that the problems they had with Tyrone did get under their skin, no doubt about it, and the same with the current lads and Dublin. But beating them (Tyrone or Dublin) anywhere would go a long way to relieving that, it doesn't have to be an All Ireland.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 19, 2016, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: Beffs on May 19, 2016, 02:36:49 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 19, 2016, 02:23:06 PM
I disagree AZ and not just cos I'm from Tyrone.
I think listening to a few of that team what lost to Tyrone those 3 times during the noughties, now that they are retired I think they would have happily sacrificed two wins v Mayo or Cork for one against us, to put us in our place.
It's the same now against Dublin I feel. They have really got under their skin and when you have as many AIs as Kerry have its all about beating your biggest rivals not to just add another one to the belt. I could be wrong though.
You tend to notice Kerry can be nice in defeat if a team beats them in a once off but they are a different animal when they reckon you are getting one over on them. They are used to coming to Croker ever summer expecting to win but they now find themselves expecting to lose to the Dubs year after year.
Not so sure about that. Watched Daragh O'Se being interviewed last year. He was asked that very question - would you trade a couple of your "softer" All Irelands (sorry Mayo & Cork) for one win against Tyrone in their pomp. He said no way...having the Celtic Cross is what matters most, not who you had to beat, or didn't beat, to get it.
Then again, a Tyrone man was sitting beside him on the sofa. He was smirking widely at the question even being asked. So maybe Daragh didn't want to give him the satisfaction of knowing how badly all the loses to Tyrone hurt.
Are you joking me? Did you see how Kerry players celebrated when they beat Tyrone in 2012. Paul Galvin cried like a baby! The last couple of years Dara has worked as a co-commentator for Sky. In every game involving Tyrone, You can hear in his voice the disgust when Tyrone would pull away at the end of a game. The hurt is there!
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2016, 02:40:33 PM
I'm sure it hurts them not have beaten Tyrone more often, and I'm sure the current lads are sick of the sight of Dublin. But in Kerry they ask 'How many All Irelands medals have you?', not 'Who did you beat to get them?'.
Of course Only medals are looked at - It's the same in every county, nobody ever looks at the loser. But that group were/are haunted by their record against Tyrone during that period.
No, I'm not joking. I just recounted what the man said. I didn't make it up. I never said that finally beating Tyrone in 2012 didn't mean a lot to them. Of course it did. But that Tyrone team in 2012, was no longer in their pomp. They had been on the slide for a couple of years. Kerry beating them in a qualifier at home, when both teams were in rebuilding mode, is not going to ease the sting of losing 3 All Ireland finals in a row to them in Croke Park, when both counties where at the peak of their powers.
Do players really put All Ireland medals in their are pockets??
Quote from: Rossfan on May 19, 2016, 03:03:14 PM
Do players really put All Ireland medals in their are pockets??
In Kerry they sometimes get mixed up with 2 euro coins.
Quote from: Beffs on May 15, 2016, 02:59:26 PM
I'm having a hard time seeing how a 5 day, warm weather training camp in the middle of April is going to benefit you massively in August or September. I understand the sports science behind them, but there is such a big gap between when these training camps take place and the champo really gets going, can they really be of that much use, in the heat of championship? I think it's interesting that the Dubs don't go on them.
Dublin don't have to . All the players are based in dublin and the facilities at DCU are as good as most.
Quote from: Beffs on May 19, 2016, 03:02:32 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 19, 2016, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: Beffs on May 19, 2016, 02:36:49 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 19, 2016, 02:23:06 PM
I disagree AZ and not just cos I'm from Tyrone.
I think listening to a few of that team what lost to Tyrone those 3 times during the noughties, now that they are retired I think they would have happily sacrificed two wins v Mayo or Cork for one against us, to put us in our place.
It's the same now against Dublin I feel. They have really got under their skin and when you have as many AIs as Kerry have its all about beating your biggest rivals not to just add another one to the belt. I could be wrong though.
You tend to notice Kerry can be nice in defeat if a team beats them in a once off but they are a different animal when they reckon you are getting one over on them. They are used to coming to Croker ever summer expecting to win but they now find themselves expecting to lose to the Dubs year after year.
Not so sure about that. Watched Daragh O'Se being interviewed last year. He was asked that very question - would you trade a couple of your "softer" All Irelands (sorry Mayo & Cork) for one win against Tyrone in their pomp. He said no way...having the Celtic Cross is what matters most, not who you had to beat, or didn't beat, to get it.
Then again, a Tyrone man was sitting beside him on the sofa. He was smirking widely at the question even being asked. So maybe Daragh didn't want to give him the satisfaction of knowing how badly all the loses to Tyrone hurt.
Are you joking me? Did you see how Kerry players celebrated when they beat Tyrone in 2012. Paul Galvin cried like a baby! The last couple of years Dara has worked as a co-commentator for Sky. In every game involving Tyrone, You can hear in his voice the disgust when Tyrone would pull away at the end of a game. The hurt is there!
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2016, 02:40:33 PM
I'm sure it hurts them not have beaten Tyrone more often, and I'm sure the current lads are sick of the sight of Dublin. But in Kerry they ask 'How many All Irelands medals have you?', not 'Who did you beat to get them?'.
Of course Only medals are looked at - It's the same in every county, nobody ever looks at the loser. But that group were/are haunted by their record against Tyrone during that period.
No, I'm not joking. I just recounting what the man said. I didn't make it up. I never said that finally beating Tyrone in 2012 didn't mean a lot to them. Of course it did. But that Tyrone team in 2012, was no longer in their pomp. They had been on the slide for a couple of years. Kerry beating them in a qualifier at home, when both teams were in rebuilding mode, is not going to ease the sting of losing 3 All Ireland finals in a row to them in Croke Park, when both counties where at the peak of their powers.
2 finals and a semi final
2003, 2005 and 2008 are not 3 years in a row ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on May 19, 2016, 03:11:54 PM
2003, 2005 and 2008 are not 3 years in a row ;)
I meant 3 defeats to them in a row. ;)
ScreenExile it doesn't take much to get a rise out of you although you've not been saying much in the Derry v Tyrone thread except play down your chances.
I don't think there is much doubt Kerry won more AIs than Tyrone and so were the best team of the "noughties" so I don't know why you are making that point again.
The point I and a few others were making on here was that Tyrone really got under Kerry's skin and annoyed them during those years the same way that the Dubs are now.
The fact they beat Donegal in the 2014 AI final rather than Dublin will be an annoyance for them and their fans in a similar way than they had with Tyrone 10 years earlier. You would imagine Kerry are going to fall further behind with some of their better players getting old and struggling to match Dublin's athleticism.
On another note, I think it's always more rewarding for counties to beat Kerry in an AI final or along the way so you would imagine it would be the same now for Kerry to beat the Dubs rather than win one without beating them.
Heffo always said beating Kerry in a final was like a double All Ireland. I'd say if Kerry beat us in a final this year, no matter what kind of way they do it, it will be immediately put into the pantheon alongside 55, 75 and 78.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 19, 2016, 03:39:39 PM
ScreenExile it doesn't take much to get a rise out of you although you've not been saying much in the Derry v Tyrone thread except play down your chances.
I don't think there is much doubt Kerry won more AIs than Tyrone and so were the best team of the "noughties" so I don't know why you are making that point again.
The point I and a few others were making on here was that Tyrone really got under Kerry's skin and annoyed them during those years the same way that the Dubs are now.
The fact they beat Donegal in the 2014 AI final rather than Dublin will be an annoyance for them and their fans in a similar way than they had with Tyrone 10 years earlier. You would imagine Kerry are going to fall further behind with some of their better players getting old and struggling to match Dublin's athleticism.
On another note, I think it's always more rewarding for counties to beat Kerry in an AI final or along the way so you would imagine it would be the same now for Kerry to beat the Dubs rather than win one without beating them.
I don't argue at all with the point that Tyrone got under Kerry's skin they most definitely did but you were trying to imply that they would have sacrificed one of their "handy" All Ireland's for beating Tyrone in one?!!
I don't think that would ever be the case.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 19, 2016, 03:11:54 PM
2003, 2005 and 2008 are not 3 years in a row ;)
Nor were they all finals
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2016, 02:53:53 PM
You're mixing up two things. The hypothesis was that Kerry value the All Irelands they have won less than one they would have won v Tyrone (or Dublin). I do not believe that to be the case, because as I've said, all they care about is celtic crosses in their arse pocket. They don't give a shite who they beat in a final, as long as they are the ones winning it.
*However* I do agree that the problems they had with Tyrone did get under their skin, no doubt about it, and the same with the current lads and Dublin. But beating them (Tyrone or Dublin) anywhere would go a long way to relieving that, it doesn't have to be an All Ireland.
Tyrone really got on their tits as the euphoria that followed a qualifier win over them recently enough showed. Gooch lost more finals than he won. Kerry are not the power they were.
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2016, 09:11:27 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2016, 02:53:53 PM
You're mixing up two things. The hypothesis was that Kerry value the All Irelands they have won less than one they would have won v Tyrone (or Dublin). I do not believe that to be the case, because as I've said, all they care about is celtic crosses in their arse pocket. They don't give a shite who they beat in a final, as long as they are the ones winning it.
*However* I do agree that the problems they had with Tyrone did get under their skin, no doubt about it, and the same with the current lads and Dublin. But beating them (Tyrone or Dublin) anywhere would go a long way to relieving that, it doesn't have to be an All Ireland.
Tyrone really got on their tits as the euphoria that followed a qualifier win over them recently enough showed. Gooch lost more finals than he won. Kerry are not the power they were.
The GAA All Ireland's are 130 years old and Kerry have won 37. That is approx a 28% percent win rate . Since say the millennium kerry have won 6 all Ireland from 16 which is 37% . In the last 7 years it in 2 which is 28 %. These stats show kerry as being broadly the same over the the history of the GAA.
Your comments highlighting Gooch"s record in finals confirm your unrelenting commitment to being the sites foremost w**ker.
How did a thread about Dublin, titled Dublin, get hi-jacked by Tyronies?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 20, 2016, 01:20:46 PM
How did a thread about Dublin, titled Dublin, get hi-jacked by Tyronies?
Did you hear Tyrone won a few AIs, Dinny?
I think Canalman started the Tyrone talk
Tyrone and recently Dublin really grates with them
I don't even think Kerry would beat Dublin if they played it in Killarney now, that's how far ahead Dublin are of them.
It would be an amazing game though on a warm summer's day.
Quote from: ashman on May 20, 2016, 02:28:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2016, 09:11:27 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2016, 02:53:53 PM
You're mixing up two things. The hypothesis was that Kerry value the All Irelands they have won less than one they would have won v Tyrone (or Dublin). I do not believe that to be the case, because as I've said, all they care about is celtic crosses in their arse pocket. They don't give a shite who they beat in a final, as long as they are the ones winning it.
*However* I do agree that the problems they had with Tyrone did get under their skin, no doubt about it, and the same with the current lads and Dublin. But beating them (Tyrone or Dublin) anywhere would go a long way to relieving that, it doesn't have to be an All Ireland.
Tyrone really got on their tits as the euphoria that followed a qualifier win over them recently enough showed. Gooch lost more finals than he won. Kerry are not the power they were.
The GAA All Ireland's are 130 years old and Kerry have won 37. That is approx a 28% percent win rate . Since say the millennium kerry have won 6 all Ireland from 16 which is 37% . In the last 7 years it in 2 which is 28 %. These stats show kerry as being broadly the same over the the history of the GAA.
Your comments highlighting Gooch"s record in finals confirm your unrelenting commitment to being the sites foremost w**ker.
The stats by decade show that this team has a lower strike rate than even the 60s Kerry team who won 2 out of 5 .
4 of the last few all Irelands were won beating Mayo and Cork. Since 2000 Kerry have played in 11 finals and only beaten 2 teams who have a better than 30% record in all Ireland finals.
In previous eras they could beat anybody
Quote from: seafoid on May 20, 2016, 10:18:20 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 20, 2016, 02:28:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2016, 09:11:27 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2016, 02:53:53 PM
You're mixing up two things. The hypothesis was that Kerry value the All Irelands they have won less than one they would have won v Tyrone (or Dublin). I do not believe that to be the case, because as I've said, all they care about is celtic crosses in their arse pocket. They don't give a shite who they beat in a final, as long as they are the ones winning it.
*However* I do agree that the problems they had with Tyrone did get under their skin, no doubt about it, and the same with the current lads and Dublin. But beating them (Tyrone or Dublin) anywhere would go a long way to relieving that, it doesn't have to be an All Ireland.
Tyrone really got on their tits as the euphoria that followed a qualifier win over them recently enough showed. Gooch lost more finals than he won. Kerry are not the power they were.
The GAA All Ireland's are 130 years old and Kerry have won 37. That is approx a 28% percent win rate . Since say the millennium kerry have won 6 all Ireland from 16 which is 37% . In the last 7 years it in 2 which is 28 %. These stats show kerry as being broadly the same over the the history of the GAA.
Your comments highlighting Gooch"s record in finals confirm your unrelenting commitment to being the sites foremost w**ker.
The stats by decade show that this team has a lower strike rate than even the 60s Kerry team who won 2 out of 5 .
4 of the last few all Irelands were won beating Mayo and Cork. Since 2000 Kerry have played in 11 finals and only beaten 2 teams who have a better than 30% record in all Ireland finals.
In previous eras they could beat anybody
Not so
in the forties Cavan beat them and they came back and won AIs
In the sixties galway and down but they came back
In the seventies Dublin and came back and won more
In the eighties and early nineties cork and they came back
In the noughties Tyrone (3) and armagh (1) but they came back and won AIs .
The current dublin dominance could well be permanent as every metric is now loaded in Dublin's favour but even if this is the case I suspect it will probably be kerry leading the chase .
Quote from: ashman on May 21, 2016, 01:09:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 20, 2016, 10:18:20 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 20, 2016, 02:28:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2016, 09:11:27 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 19, 2016, 02:53:53 PM
You're mixing up two things. The hypothesis was that Kerry value the All Irelands they have won less than one they would have won v Tyrone (or Dublin). I do not believe that to be the case, because as I've said, all they care about is celtic crosses in their arse pocket. They don't give a shite who they beat in a final, as long as they are the ones winning it.
*However* I do agree that the problems they had with Tyrone did get under their skin, no doubt about it, and the same with the current lads and Dublin. But beating them (Tyrone or Dublin) anywhere would go a long way to relieving that, it doesn't have to be an All Ireland.
Tyrone really got on their tits as the euphoria that followed a qualifier win over them recently enough showed. Gooch lost more finals than he won. Kerry are not the power they were.
The GAA All Ireland's are 130 years old and Kerry have won 37. That is approx a 28% percent win rate . Since say the millennium kerry have won 6 all Ireland from 16 which is 37% . In the last 7 years it in 2 which is 28 %. These stats show kerry as being broadly the same over the the history of the GAA.
Your comments highlighting Gooch"s record in finals confirm your unrelenting commitment to being the sites foremost w**ker.
The stats by decade show that this team has a lower strike rate than even the 60s Kerry team who won 2 out of 5 .
4 of the last few all Irelands were won beating Mayo and Cork. Since 2000 Kerry have played in 11 finals and only beaten 2 teams who have a better than 30% record in all Ireland finals.
In previous eras they could beat anybody
Not so
in the forties Cavan beat them and they came back and won AIs
In the sixties galway and down but they came back
In the seventies Dublin and came back and won more
In the eighties and early nineties cork and they came back
In the noughties Tyrone (3) and armagh (1) but they came back and won AIs .
The current dublin dominance could well be permanent as every metric is now loaded in Dublin's favour but even if this is the case I suspect it will probably be kerry leading the chase .
The Dubs will fade out like they always do.
But Kerry didn't beat Tyrone or Dublin in 4 finals and that is unusual imo
Maybe the minor generation will be different.
I wonder have the qualifiers had an influence.
Or it could be the Ulster thing with the end of the troubles.
Armagh and Tyrone won 3 all Irelands off them
Down never had a problem beating them in all Irelands either
Quote from: ashman on April 24, 2016, 05:17:08 PM
In 2011 and 2013 they All Ireland marginally.
The last 2 years they are on a different planet physically to all teams .
Is the sport of inter county football sustainable if this continues . Many will say it is a phase but I am certain it is not as the dice is totally loaded in their favour :
- financial power
- population
- rural depopulation and urban growth
- ultra modern infrastructure.
- A pile of super clubs.
- Massive GAA funds pumped in .
Attendances will drop this year and it is really hard to drum up any enthusiasm for the summer ahead.
Any views??
Dublin Minors were hammered by Meath on Saturday and are out of the Leinster Champiionship. The second year in a row Dublin have not even reached a Leinster Final at this grade. Dublin's abysmal minor record of 1 All Ireland in 30 odd years looks like extending further. Not exactly the form of a County who are going to ruin Gaelic Football for everyone by winning every All Ireland for the next 20 years?
Then again maybe Dublin are losing these matches on purpose to shut up "screaming Marys" like yourself.