Time to start the discussion. Will the patience of England with coach and captain pay off?
Is it over yet?
Any chance England won't get outta the group?
Quote from: shoebox on September 13, 2015, 10:57:43 PM
When does it even start? P.s. the Lucozade sport ad is shit
Friday night. England v Fiji.
Quote from: ONeill on September 13, 2015, 10:53:02 PM
Any chance England won't get outta the group?
Not anymore with Wales' injuries!
England v NZ final for me
Headed over to the Romania match and the semi final (hopefully Ireland V England)
Can't wait
We have work prediction competition to list top 4 in order and winners and runners up in each group. Like Mayo4Sam I have an England v NZ final with Ireland battling RSA for 3rd place.
Ireland being ropeadoped big time by France coming up to the WC. Can't believe they cannot see it.
Lose to France I believe and it is NZ in the 1/4s and all over red rover again for us .
Shameful record of never having won a knockout game in the WC.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 05:35:56 PM
We have work prediction competition to list top 4 in order and winners and runners up in each group. Like Mayo4Sam I have an England v NZ final with Ireland battling RSA for 3rd place.
I think Samoa could take Scotland for second in that group
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 14, 2015, 11:23:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2015, 05:35:56 PM
We have work prediction competition to list top 4 in order and winners and runners up in each group. Like Mayo4Sam I have an England v NZ final with Ireland battling RSA for 3rd place.
I think Samoa could take Scotland for second in that group
I had Samoa in second and had a last minute change to Scotland. Will be all to play for probably in their match. f**k it's a long oul haul, nearly 6 weeks.
Quote from: ONeill on September 13, 2015, 10:53:02 PM
Any chance England won't get outta the group?
Not a chance. And that's regardless of Wales' injuries. England have both Wales & Australia at Twickenham.
They are extremely difficult to beat at home.
I can't see them losing either game but certainly not both.
At work competition I have the qtr finals as
England vs South Africa
New Zealand Vs Ireland
France vs Argentina
Australia vs Scotland
Semis as
England vs New Zealand
France vs Australia
With the Aussies to beat NZ in the final.
There's going to be some ugly games in this. Maybe some of these countries shouldn't be allowed enter?
They should have the Tommy Murphy Rugby World Cup or Rugby Bihatimber
The Rugby Bihatimber is the 6 nations.
https://youtu.be/ZlHS_Mn7nWE (https://youtu.be/ZlHS_Mn7nWE)
This should backfire nicely on england if they meet new zealand!
Quote from: andoireabu on September 18, 2015, 11:23:50 AM
https://youtu.be/ZlHS_Mn7nWE (https://youtu.be/ZlHS_Mn7nWE)
This should backfire nicely on england if they meet new zealand!
QuoteMatt Dawson: the great 'Hakarena' irritant who will never be truly important enough to hate (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11872204/Matt-Dawson-the-great-Hakarena-irritant-who-will-never-be-truly-important-enough-to-hate.html)
Dawson, who caused sides to split the country over with his oh-so-hilarious Haka parody, epitomises why people who hate rugby hate rugby
By Jonathan Liew
Mate, get over it. Mate, it's just a bit of fun. Mate, yeah?
In a way, it's hardly surprising that Matt Dawson has irritated the All Blacks with his utterly hilarious "Hakarena" video. Irritation is the operative word here; not anger, and certainly not hatred. Dawson will never be truly important enough to hate. And unlike genuine hatred, irritation is a tough quality to pin down, being attained not through individual acts of heinousness, but simply by a state of being.
New Zealanders temporarily outraged by Dawson's hilarious – no seriously, get some duct tape, my sides are coming apart – parody of the Maori haka are simply experiencing what all viewers of A Question of Sport or televised rugby have known for a while. Dawson would win a Nobel Prize for Irritation every year. He would turn up at the ceremony in Stockholm; make a few quips about Volvos and saunas in a needlessly loud voice; leave the stage holding aloft the giant cheque and hollering something about all the drinks being on him tonight.
If there is one definable quality to Dawson's indefinable offensiveness, it is petty aggression. He is the guy at the pub who always talk a little louder than he needs to. He is the guy who tries to race you at traffic lights. He is a Twitter banter account in human form. He is the sort of person for whom the word "mate" is not a term of endearment, but a grammatical punch in the face, an axiom to be deployed at the start of every sentence like a capital letter. There is a spiky competitiveness to him that probably came in very handy when he was playing rugby, but now just comes across as a bit weird and insecure. Mate, don't ruin this for me. Mate, don't kill my buzz. Mate, yeah?
Naturally, Dawson's achievements in the game have lent his words a certain weight, and so in retirement speaks as if utterly convinced that he is the wisest and most charismatic man in the room, even when all the available evidence contradicts this. Imagine how irritating Tim Lovejoy would be – how shamelessly self-aggrandising, how inoperably insufferable – if he had not just played professional football, but won the World Cup with England. Matt Dawson is the man you are imagining.
In fact, the two have shared a screen in the past: most notably on BT Sports Panel a couple of years ago, when Lovejoy announced with a beaming smile that the channel had secured live rights to the Champions League. Not to be outdone, Dawson's reaction was to celebrate wildly, punching the air with both fists before pointing at his studio guests and shouting: "You were here! You were here!"
Almost a decade after retirement, Dawson appears to have carved himself out a little niche, if that is what you call the curious cytoplasmic void in between the realms of the competent and the funny. It is the delusion of someone so utterly lacking in self-awareness that it is reasonable to ask whether he actually exists at all in his own right, rather than as some ghastly figment of our collective subconscious. Evidently, as this latest video demonstrates, Dawson is rather enchanted with the vision of himself as some sort of modern comedy genius: Milligan, Cleese, Everett, Dawson.
Yet while good humorists generally punch up, Dawson generally provides an object lesson in punching down, as he demonstrates by mocking a traditional indigenous Oceanian cultural expression of respect. Like many of the worst excuses for synthetic japery, it is conducted with a faintly condescending perma-sneer throughout.
Already, you can hear the rumbling sirens and flapping truncheons of the banter police. It's just a prank, though, yeah? Just a bit of fun? Like that fun prank when Derwyn Jones hit Dawson in the backside with a cactus on a 1994 Barbarians tour of Zimbabwe, and Dawson reacted with his customary good humour? "They wanted pain," Dawson recalled in his autobiography. "The blow cut me, blood started to ooze from my cheeks, and I exploded in rage."
In essence, people like Dawson epitomise why people who hate rugby hate rugby, and why people who hate England hate England. He represents the morons and the charlatans of the sport, its privileged and entitled side, and in so doing does it a grave disservice.
The truth is that rugby is much more of an inclusive, national pastime than many of its detractors would care to admit. Go to places like Bath and Exeter and Leicester and Northampton, and you will find an entirely different sort of game: a game watched by families, a game that resonates with all social classes, a reasonably-priced day out that brings communities together.
But to many casual observers, their first glance at the sport is something more prosaic. The unnervingly corporate sheen of Twickenham. Or the armies of moneyed, Jack-Wills-clad Home Counties hooligans you find in the pubs of south-west London. Or the witless, pseudo-ramblings of Dawson on television. And the danger is that people see these things, and think that's all the sport has to offer. It isn't.
And yet, perhaps it is Dawson that comes out of all this affair worse than anyone else. After all, one of the most arresting qualities of the "Hakarena" video is that the music being played bears little or no resemblance to "Macarena", the song made famous by Los del Rio in the mid-1990s. Instead, it is some of sort of generic Euro-pop track that presumably is supposed to sound like Macarena, but not enough to excite the copyright lawyers.
This, perhaps, is the final insult, the definitive yardstick of an ailing career: evidently, it costs less to hire Matt Dawson to dance to Macarena than it does to buy the rights to the song.
Mate, honestly?
Quote from: andoireabu on September 18, 2015, 11:23:50 AM
https://youtu.be/ZlHS_Mn7nWE (https://youtu.be/ZlHS_Mn7nWE)
This should backfire nicely on england if they meet new zealand!
Now England Rugby have hardly commissioned this. I would like to see a team go nose to nose with the All Black's when they're doing the haka.
Did the French do that at some stage? It was electric I remember. They ended up bringing in that rule that the other team has to stand on the 10 metre line or wherever it is.
This is what I was thinking of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn_ZyQ7jW9o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn_ZyQ7jW9o)
Willie Anderson did it first (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weUHwCjeD7s) - fat lot of good it did us.
Willie Anderson looks like a lad 'fake' fighting in a pub or something. Hould me back lads...
Or a Water Protester.
Loads of teams have fronted them up. All hammered no doubt! Ireland did it in the 80s. The aussies used to just ignore it. I think Martin Johnson went nose to nose with one of them years ago too.
France beat them that night I think. It was the 2007 World Cup.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 18, 2015, 11:52:02 AM
Loads of teams have fronted them up. All hammered no doubt! Ireland did it in the 80s. The aussies used to just ignore it. I think Martin Johnson went nose to nose with one of them years ago too.
It was actually the usually shy and retiring Richard Cockerill
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9hOZRHpleH8 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9hOZRHpleH8)
Christ but Matt Dawson is one annoying turd of a man
I know england rugby aren't behind it and i know it's a joke but from a new zealand players point of view, it is easy motivation. And it isn't hard to understand why they could take offence. You dont want to give new zealand any reason to play harder against you, and by disrespecting the haka you do just that.
Rarely you see an article that is just pitch perfect with every line and that one about Matt Dawson absolutely nailed it.
The video is hideous and anybody who has played Rugby should know that the Haka is used as a war cry yes but also as a mark of resepct and to undermine it like that is a huge slap in the face to New Zealand.
You can be sure that Lancaster and Robshaw won't be thanking 'Dawes' for it anytime soon the mouthy twat!!
https://youtu.be/8eGCsEQ15L4 (https://youtu.be/8eGCsEQ15L4)
The tongan's definitely weren't having it!
I'd say the English players are delighted alright. thanks for nothing Matt.
Meh, hardly anything really offensive about that video really but it's not that funny either.
That said if I were the NZ captain or coach I wouldn't hesitate to make use of it as motivation.
Can you pin a You Tube video to a dressing room wall? :)
David Campese stood kicking the ball to himself many's a time when the rest of his Australia team mates faced the haka.
Why should sides have to show New Zealand respect?? This is the nation who plunders the pacific islanders for their best talent year in year out.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 18, 2015, 12:53:44 PM
David Campese stood kicking the ball to himself many's a time when the rest of his Australia team mates faced the haka.
Why should sides have to show New Zealand respect?? This is the nation who plunders the pacific islanders for their best talent year in year out.
why not show respect?
for me its one of the great sights in sport. If I was playing against the All Blacks, the haka would have me fired up. Have many former international players come out against the haka ? I cant recall reading any
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 18, 2015, 11:52:02 AM
The aussies used to just ignore it.
Also you will notice that Aussie players and coaches never refer to the "All-Blacks", only New Zealand. This is a conscious thing to avoid creating an aura around them: treat them as just another team/country.
Contrast our gang with "If we don't beat France we should pack our bags and go home" routine.
/Jim
Quote from: JoG2 on September 18, 2015, 01:34:51 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 18, 2015, 12:53:44 PM
David Campese stood kicking the ball to himself many's a time when the rest of his Australia team mates faced the haka.
Why should sides have to show New Zealand respect?? This is the nation who plunders the pacific islanders for their best talent year in year out.
why not show respect?
for me its one of the great sights in sport. If I was playing against the All Blacks, the haka would have me fired up. Have many former international players come out against the haka ? I cant recall reading any
The Aussies aren't fans of it but that's the aussies. I just don't think we should be subjected to it. Just my opinion.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on September 18, 2015, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 18, 2015, 11:52:02 AM
The aussies used to just ignore it.
Also you will notice that Aussie players and coaches never refer to the "All-Blacks", only New Zealand. This is a conscious thing to avoid creating an aura around them: treat them as just another team/country.
Contrast our gang with "If we don't beat France we should pack our bags and go home" routine.
/Jim
Nail on the head!! Even if we do get over France we'll face a Argentina side on the rise!!
I think the main Rugby World Cup should be reduced to 16 teams (4 groups of 4, Q/F,S/F,F). This would get rid a week of the tournament and stop teams having to play two games withing four days. Then there should also be an 8 team tournament run at the same time for the next best 8 (2 groups of four, S/F, F) with those games played as double headers with games in the main tournament. The winner of the secondary competition gets entry into the next World Cup.
This would get rid of the weakest team in each group, and the one sided games that happen, it shortens the tournament and allows the weaker countries to play teams at their own level.
The opposition should be able to do what they want with regard the Haka, that rule to prevent teams from going towards the New Zealand team is farcical. It is nothing to do with the game and shouldn't have regulations in place to support it.
Quote from: nrico2006 on September 18, 2015, 02:14:54 PM
The opposition should be able to do what they want with regard the Haka, that rule to prevent teams from going towards the New Zealand team is farcical. It is nothing to do with the game and shouldn't have regulations in place to support it.
NZ are the 'Moneyball' for the game so basically I would say what ever they say goes.
As for the reduction of teams, the world cup is being used as a way of growing the game in the 'Non-Colonial' parts of the globe. So that reduction is not going to happen any time soon.
Quote from: nrico2006 on September 18, 2015, 02:14:54 PM
The opposition should be able to do what they want with regard the Haka, that rule to prevent teams from going towards the New Zealand team is farcical. It is nothing to do with the game and shouldn't have regulations in place to support it.
+
Spot on.. only reason it has regulations is because its the All blacks. Let them do it in the dressing room like every other teams psych up ritual.
Anyone propose an accumulator for the weekend's games? :P ;D
England,
Tonga,
Ireland,
South Africa,
France,
Samoa,
Wales,
New Zealand,
All to win is a good bet at 4/6
Quote from: Rossie11 on September 18, 2015, 02:29:05 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on September 18, 2015, 02:14:54 PM
The opposition should be able to do what they want with regard the Haka, that rule to prevent teams from going towards the New Zealand team is farcical. It is nothing to do with the game and shouldn't have regulations in place to support it.
+
Spot on.. only reason it has regulations is because its the All blacks. Let them do it in the dressing room like every other teams psych up ritual.
I know what you mean, but the punters feel short-changed if they don't see it. I knew lads in college who loved Ireland's Call...
Quote from: deiseach on September 18, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: Rossie11 on September 18, 2015, 02:29:05 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on September 18, 2015, 02:14:54 PM
The opposition should be able to do what they want with regard the Haka, that rule to prevent teams from going towards the New Zealand team is farcical. It is nothing to do with the game and shouldn't have regulations in place to support it.
+
Spot on.. only reason it has regulations is because its the All blacks. Let them do it in the dressing room like every other teams psych up ritual.
I know what you mean, but the punters feel short-changed if they don't see it. I knew lads in college who loved Ireland's Call...
It's definitely a good spectacle and I'm all for it, but they shouldn't expect the opposition to stand and admire it. If they want to treat it with disdain they should be allowed to as it is definitely used to gain a psychological advantage on their opponents.
What channel is the Rugby World Cup on lads? I know it is on TV3, but is it on any other channels available in this fair isle?
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 18, 2015, 05:45:37 PM
What channel is the Rugby World Cup on lads? I know it is on TV3, but is it on any other channels available in this fair isle?
Every match is on ITV if that's available "down there". Unfortunately ITV coverage of practically everything is fairly dire.
I hate the TV3 effort already. Dorties everywhere. And a female Marty Morrissey.
Dorties?
Denizens of the Dort belt.
Jaysus Woodie would tear your head off :)
Ah to be honest it's Hugo that's irritating me. The Nicholas Parsons of sport.
Seriously, though. It looks like a budget effort so far. All talking heads. They're talking about five great players and there have been no action shots at all!
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 18, 2015, 11:52:48 AM
France beat them that night I think. It was the 2007 World Cup.
Was at that game in Cardiff. The Haka was electric with the French singing Alla Le bleu and all togged out to represent the ti-colour. The game after was nuts as well, cracking stuff. Hope we get a few games like that this WC
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 18, 2015, 05:45:37 PM
What channel is the Rugby World Cup on lads? I know it is on TV3, but is it on any other channels available in this fair isle?
Here. (http://www.watching-paint-dry.com)
That's fu*kin it, I'm off to itv to watch the rest of the tournament. TV3 are a joke, Cooper in over his head. Woodie looks like he regrets taking the gig.
Jason Robinson on pitch side, he's an inch taller than me and he's looks like a dwarf between those two!!
They think the game will have two scores between them at the end, England mins 24, how do you see this panning out? Big scoring game??
Don't know what way this turn out to i need to see all the teams but if England play the All-Blacks, NZ would put 20pts on them after that video, no need for a pre match speech there. Woodward said he take the current England wing over Jonah Lomu, what drugs is he smoking round his neck of the woods
Quote from: laoislad on September 18, 2015, 07:30:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 18, 2015, 05:45:37 PM
What channel is the Rugby World Cup on lads? I know it is on TV3, but is it on any other channels available in this fair isle?
Here. (http://www.watching-paint-dry.com)
ITV.
TV3's studio is shocking.
Shocking pink.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 18, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Jason Robinson on pitch side, he's an inch taller than me and he's looks like a dwarf between those two!!
They think the game will have two scores between them at the end, England mins 24, how do you see this panning out? Big scoring game??
LOL the missus said he should have been made to stand on the box or he'll have a sore neck.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 18, 2015, 08:05:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 18, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Jason Robinson on pitch side, he's an inch taller than me and he's looks like a dwarf between those two!!
They think the game will have two scores between them at the end, England mins 24, how do you see this panning out? Big scoring game??
LOL the missus said he should have been made to stand on the box or he'll have a sore neck.
No thought in that set up!!
Apparently the Samoan players had to pay for their own flights. World Cup that is half pro and half amateur. Does make a bit of a mockery of it. But that's the state of rugby at the minute.
Hard luck Fiji!!
Get in!!
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 18, 2015, 11:42:11 AM
Did the French do that at some stage? It was electric I remember. They ended up bringing in that rule that the other team has to stand on the 10 metre line or wherever it is.
I thought you'd have liked the Haka, particularly the Munster version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8hzfrTPo6E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8hzfrTPo6E) ;D
that England Team aint going to win damn all, even on home turf!
Fuji have left 6 points behind them here with 2 misses
If Fiji had slotted a few more of these kicks England would be on the rack.
If Fiji had taken their f**king kicks they'd be in front!!!
England style is a standard bish bash team, when a team can match it like Fuji they haven't much else to offer, England lucky they run up an early 10pts start. Can England met South Africa in the Q/F? I take South Africa to walk over them
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 18, 2015, 09:41:48 PM
England style is a standard bish bash team, when a team can match it like Fuji they haven't much else to offer, England lucky they run up an early 10pts start. Can England met South Africa in the Q/F? I take South Africa to walk over them
Yes Pool A v Pool B if one of them comes second.
Hold them out Fiji!!! No bonus point could be huge in this pool!
I think that's try!
Job done for England despite being fairly pish for large parts of it.
Looked short to me. Australia and Wales should be pissed off with Fiji for not killing that game off with 1 min to go. Fiji with more discipline and a kicker would have had England in the shit and yet at full time England coasting with bonus point - ridiculous
Couldn't get my head around the Fiji 10 not kicking the penalties. That winger was a joke. Christ I've seen junior players kick better.
England very poor apart from Brown, Wood and T Youngs. The Welsh game is crucial. Think Aussies will eat England on the breakdown with Hooper and Pocock.
Quote from: muppet on September 18, 2015, 09:12:32 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 18, 2015, 11:42:11 AM
Did the French do that at some stage? It was electric I remember. They ended up bringing in that rule that the other team has to stand on the 10 metre line or wherever it is.
I thought you'd have liked the Haka, particularly the Munster version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8hzfrTPo6E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8hzfrTPo6E) ;D
I love the Haka, and I doubt any player in the world doesn't get a buzz from it, either facing it or doing it. That said, I thought the ka mate Haka was about a lad hiding in a hole, and being helped by women to avoid being captured. I'm not so sure it really is a war dance as such, or a challenge in any sense. I think it's actually a sort of joy/relief Haka, and all the war elements, the gestures and tongues etc are a bit of an All Black invention.
Here you go. Maybe the next time players face it they should just remember it's about a lad cowering in a hole, hiding under a woman's "bits" and they won't feel so intimidated.
http://www.marimari.com/content/categories/editorial/archives/kia_ora/ka_mate.html (http://www.marimari.com/content/categories/editorial/archives/kia_ora/ka_mate.html)
When's Northern Ireland playing?
Quote from: ONeill on September 19, 2015, 11:15:05 AM
When's Northern Ireland playing?
Check with OWC lads. They wanted a NI rugby team. Apparently despite the fact that at today's match Ireland will be represented by Ireland's Call and the Four provinces flag, some supporters with bring something called a "fleg" and this "fleg" is particularly bad as it's a "trickler " "fleg"...
Also in the event of a lull in the game they will sing the Fields of Athenry which is about eating protestant babies.
I'd wager as well that with the World Cup being in England well known OWC nemesis Holly, aged 8, from Kent could show her bigoted face.
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on September 19, 2015, 12:48:12 PM
Quote from: ONeill on September 19, 2015, 11:15:05 AM
When's Northern Ireland playing?
Check with OWC lads. They wanted a NI rugby team. Apparently despite the fact that at today's match Ireland will be represented by Ireland's Call and the Four provinces flag, some supporters with bring something called a "fleg" and this "fleg" is particularly bad as it's a "trickler " "fleg"...
Also in the event of a lull in the game they will sing the Fields of Athenry which is about eating protestant babies.
I'd wager as well that with the World Cup being in England well known OWC nemesis Holly, aged 8, from Kent could show her bigoted face.
/Jim.
That's a odious stroke you have with your brush their Jim, so it is
Quote from: gawa316 on September 19, 2015, 01:13:24 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on September 19, 2015, 12:48:12 PM
Quote from: ONeill on September 19, 2015, 11:15:05 AM
When's Northern Ireland playing?
Check with OWC lads. They wanted a NI rugby team. Apparently despite the fact that at today's match Ireland will be represented by Ireland's Call and the Four provinces flag, some supporters with bring something called a "fleg" and this "fleg" is particularly bad as it's a "trickler " "fleg"...
Also in the event of a lull in the game they will sing the Fields of Athenry which is about eating protestant babies.
I'd wager as well that with the World Cup being in England well known OWC nemesis Holly, aged 8, from Kent could show her bigoted face.
/Jim.
That's a odious stroke you have with your brush their Jim, so it is
Should I have used a smiley face?
/Jim
Quote from: highorlow on September 18, 2015, 03:03:46 PM
England,
Tonga,
Ireland,
South Africa,
France,
Samoa,
Wales,
New Zealand,
All to win is a good bet at 4/6
Beat already before 3rd game!!
D'Arcy the Phil Neville pf Rugby commentating...
"Actually Ted I think I have the most boring voice!"
Quote from: screenexile on September 19, 2015, 03:11:08 PM
D'Arcy the Phil Neville pf Rugby commentating...
"Actually Ted I think I have the most boring voice!"
Agreed the commentary is atrocious but it is ITV so it's going to be a mess anyway
MR2 ;D as discussed...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/columnists/gilessmith/article4561850.ece (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/columnists/gilessmith/article4561850.ece)
Earls is a donkey.
Paulie
Ireland in a decent place.
Japan playing great stuff in this one. SA making very hard work of it.
Amazing stuff from Japan. Level with ten to go.
Great try from Japan.
The Scotland team will be watching with interest :-\
Unbelievable!
Un f**king believable, Class!!!!! from Japan
What a match, what a finish.
World cup on the go from 1987, and that the biggest shock since it started, class stuff!
What a game of rugby!!!
Pure theatre. Class to watch history unfold before your eyes just absolutely phenomenal!!!
My thinking was to keep backing the so called weaker team on handicap. Japan plus 43!! Unreal.
Absolutely magnificent stuff from Japan.
Results like that makes any world cup. Well done Japan their own piece of rugby history.
Unbelievable,fair play to the captain for deciding to go for the win when a draw would've been a huge result for them. There'll be a movie like Cool runnings made about this in years to come.
This could be a good group now. 30 odd points against SA is no fluke so the Jocks and Samoa could get a slapping.
Brilliant! Some game and some balls by the Japanese at the end.
What a game. Unreal craic. Some nerve to go for it at the end when a draw against the Springboks would have been a huge result. Great to see
This next game on the box anywhere?
Tv3
Good man
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 19, 2015, 02:16:49 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 18, 2015, 03:03:46 PM
England,
Tonga,
Ireland,
South Africa,
France,
Samoa,
Wales,
New Zealand,
All to win is a good bet at 4/6
Beat already before 3rd game!!
Mad craic! Any other potential shocks on the list?
Quote from: beer baron on September 19, 2015, 06:49:02 PM
Unbelievable,fair play to the captain for deciding to go for the win when a draw would've been a huge result for them. There'll be a movie like Cool runnings made about this in years to come.
I am still buzzing. Wtf would we do without great sporting upsets?
World Cup in Japan in 2019 could be good craic.
I'm struggling to think of a bigger shock in any sport ever. With soccer you can get a couple of fluke goals but Japan beating South Africa at rugby at the world cup.
Quote from: dferg on September 19, 2015, 08:49:01 PM
I'm struggling to think of a bigger shock in any sport ever. With soccer you can get a couple of fluke goals but Japan beating South Africa at rugby at the world cup.
Japan beat Wales two years ago, Italy last year. Great form at their level heading into the tournament. Far from the biggest shock in sporting history but an amazing result all the same.
Well done Japan. Interesting group now if anything this makes Scotland's task even harder. Watching Italy France. This is the worst Italian team in years. Missing some key players and some others just way past their best. France in second gear and coasting.
Quote from: Syferus on September 19, 2015, 08:59:34 PM
Quote from: dferg on September 19, 2015, 08:49:01 PM
I'm struggling to think of a bigger shock in any sport ever. With soccer you can get a couple of fluke goals but Japan beating South Africa at rugby at the world cup.
Japan beat Wales two years ago, Italy last year. Great form at their level heading into the tournament. Far from the biggest shock in sporting history but an amazing result all the same.
not saying your wrong, but I'm struggling to think of any. List all the ones that you reckon are bigger shocks
Quote from: Syferus on September 19, 2015, 08:59:34 PM
Quote from: dferg on September 19, 2015, 08:49:01 PM
I'm struggling to think of a bigger shock in any sport ever. With soccer you can get a couple of fluke goals but Japan beating South Africa at rugby at the world cup.
Japan beat Wales two years ago, Italy last year. Great form at their level heading into the tournament. Far from the biggest shock in sporting history but an amazing result all the same.
There you go, I didn't know that. I stuck on the radio in the car to hear the soccer score and it said South Africa were winning 32 29 with time almost up and I wasn't sure if I had heard it right.
Just read an article that said South Africa were 500/1 on before the match. I wouldn't have put a cent on Japan at any price.
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rugby/odds-slashed-on-japan-to-win-rugby-world-cup-after-famous-win-over-south-africa-a2951451.html
This is most likely a stupid question. But, if a team scores 4 tries and loses by less than 7 points. Then they get 2 points from that game, is that right? Was wondering this during the last few minutes of the Japan game! So had Japan kicked the penalty for a draw they would have earned 3 points?
To be honest i cant recall a bigger shock in any sport, Upset beating Manowar in horse racing back in the 1920`s would been another but wasn't around then funny enough!
France didn't look any great shakes tonight. Horrendous amount of turnovers and penalties in the 2nd half. Joubert makes some shit out of games.
Awful bad luck on yougat. Looks like end of tournament for him.
I'm guessing SA's players tried to make a bit of money on the handicap today, and it backfired a little.
This is Down beating Tipperary in a hurling championship game kind of territory. Down might have a few lads who can swing a hurl, but play it 100 times and you would expect the same outcome 100 times.
The itv and tv3 coverage is shite. The licence fee obviously has a relevance with quality.
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 19, 2015, 11:30:09 PM
The itv and tv3 coverage is shite. The licence fee obviously has a relevance with quality.
I watch the game and judge the quality myself.. Very rarely take in what the commentators say as they normally go with their own agenda.. Chill ta feck out and enjoy the game
I'm talking about the studios, the adds, the commentry, the whole package. Enjoying the matches but all else is terrible.
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 19, 2015, 11:37:59 PM
I'm talking about the studios, the adds, the commentry, the whole package. Enjoying the matches but all else is terrible.
The BBC is fairly unique in it's coverage. Yes ads are an absolute pain in the hole but no avoiding them on most channels. To be fair to ITV they have pushed the boat out on the pundits but with ads you aren't going to get the same level as analysis you get elsewhere.
Quote from: hardstation on September 19, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 19, 2015, 11:37:59 PM
I'm talking about the studios, the adds, the commentry, the whole package. Enjoying the matches but all else is terrible.
I think that Milltown may be like me, not a big rugby fan, happy to watch the match but couldn't really give a ballix about analysis etc. Usually away making tea, banging the neighbour's wife, weeding the garden at intervals.
He's certainly not a big rugby fan. 5'6" at a push.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 19, 2015, 11:45:30 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 19, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 19, 2015, 11:37:59 PM
I'm talking about the studios, the adds, the commentry, the whole package. Enjoying the matches but all else is terrible.
I think that Milltown may be like me, not a big rugby fan, happy to watch the match but couldn't really give a ballix about analysis etc. Usually away making tea, banging the neighbour's wife, weeding the garden at intervals.
He's certainly not a big rugby fan. 5'6" at a push.
5'6 true... But fairly fit for me age ;D
The RTE are limited to 6 mins of ads.
TV3 are allowed 12.
Ads are ruining the analysis as everything is rushed.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 20, 2015, 12:48:14 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 19, 2015, 11:45:30 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 19, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 19, 2015, 11:37:59 PM
I'm talking about the studios, the adds, the commentry, the whole package. Enjoying the matches but all else is terrible.
I think that Milltown may be like me, not a big rugby fan, happy to watch the match but couldn't really give a ballix about analysis etc. Usually away making tea, banging the neighbour's wife, weeding the garden at intervals.
He's certainly not a big rugby fan. 5'6" at a push.
5'6 true... But fairly fit for me age ;D
Aye I saw you on Facebook a couple of weeks ago. You're in good nick but not my type ;D
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 20, 2015, 10:08:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 20, 2015, 12:48:14 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 19, 2015, 11:45:30 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 19, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 19, 2015, 11:37:59 PM
I'm talking about the studios, the adds, the commentry, the whole package. Enjoying the matches but all else is terrible.
I think that Milltown may be like me, not a big rugby fan, happy to watch the match but couldn't really give a ballix about analysis etc. Usually away making tea, banging the neighbour's wife, weeding the garden at intervals.
He's certainly not a big rugby fan. 5'6" at a push.
5'6 true... But fairly fit for me age ;D
Aye I saw you on Facebook a couple of weeks ago. You're in good nick but not my type ;D
Noted ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 19, 2015, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on September 19, 2015, 11:30:09 PM
The itv and tv3 coverage is shite. The licence fee obviously has a relevance with quality.
I watch the game and judge the quality myself.. Very rarely take in what the commentators say as they normally go with their own agenda.. Chill ta feck out and enjoy the game
Keith Wood is good.
The Japanese were awesome.
A pity the AI hurling didn't have a bit of that.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/WorldCup/Bookies-lose-faith-in-Springboks-20150920
Cape Town - The Springboks have plummetted down the list of favourites to lift this year's Webb Ellis Cup, according to bookmakers.
According to local bookies Sportingbet, after their opening shock loss to Japan in Brighton on Saturday, the Boks are now on offer at 9/1 to add a third World Cup title to their resumé.
Heyneke Meyer's men were, pre-tournament, among the favourites to emerge victorious.
New Zealand, who open their World Cup defence against Argentina at 17:45 on Sunday, remain 21/20 favourites, followed by England (21/5), Australia (7/1) and Ireland (8/1).
Scotland to beat Japan on Weds afternoon well worth an interest. Will Japan do the unthinkable again? I don't think so.
Surely NZ need to win, as the game against France will be a strange affair
The Argies are under serious pressure here, been defending flat out the whole 2nd half. Ireland beat France they beat Argentina. The winger who missed the Sonny Bill pass makes New Zealand decision to leave Cory Jane at home look silly.
the 2 teams look well matched, Carter has faded badly as a fly half, maybe not a strong a All-Black team as people think, McCaw and Kaino are old in the back row plus leaving Dagg and Jane at home looks strange too. they are very dangerous though when Williams plays centre, mans a class act. game so even as Argentina has a serious pack
England fans cheering on the Argies, Oh the Irony!!
Quote from: HiMucker on September 19, 2015, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 19, 2015, 08:59:34 PM
Quote from: dferg on September 19, 2015, 08:49:01 PM
I'm struggling to think of a bigger shock in any sport ever. With soccer you can get a couple of fluke goals but Japan beating South Africa at rugby at the world cup.
Japan beat Wales two years ago, Italy last year. Great form at their level heading into the tournament. Far from the biggest shock in sporting history but an amazing result all the same.
not saying your wrong, but I'm struggling to think of any. List all the ones that you reckon are bigger shocks
Any chance syf? :)
buster douglas beating tyson is up there
Cameroon beating Argentina in the first round of the WC in '94
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 20, 2015, 07:39:21 PM
Cameroon beating Argentina in the first round of the WC in '94
1990
Ah lads there upsets but not in the same league. As for the low scoring in soccer there is upsets, but unless it's San Marino beating a top team I wouldn't rank it up there. In boxing as a fight can be finished with a single blow I wouldn't rank it in the same league either. Ratman or whatever his name was beating Lewis was the biggest shock I seen in boxing. Maybe there is a few upsets in golf that would be up there. Miracle on ice as well.
Quote from: HiMucker on September 20, 2015, 08:14:34 PM
Ah lads there upsets but not in the same league. As for the low scoring in soccer there is upsets, but unless it's San Marino beating a top team I wouldn't rank it up there. In boxing as a fight can be finished with a single blow I wouldn't rank it in the same league either. Ratman or whatever his name was beating Lewis was the biggest shock I seen in boxing. Maybe there is a few upsets in golf that would be up there. Miracle on ice as well.
the boks have a lot of players on the way out.
The excitement was the thing about the match. Who cares if it wasn`t best ever ?
Quote from: HiMucker on September 20, 2015, 06:43:38 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 19, 2015, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 19, 2015, 08:59:34 PM
Quote from: dferg on September 19, 2015, 08:49:01 PM
I'm struggling to think of a bigger shock in any sport ever. With soccer you can get a couple of fluke goals but Japan beating South Africa at rugby at the world cup.
Japan beat Wales two years ago, Italy last year. Great form at their level heading into the tournament. Far from the biggest shock in sporting history but an amazing result all the same.
not saying your wrong, but I'm struggling to think of any. List all the ones that you reckon are bigger shocks
Any chance syf? :)
Ireland beating Pakistan and England at the cricket world cup?
90,000 at the match tonight. They are pulling in some serious cash as the tix were very expensive.
Really enjoying it, has been a good opening weekend. The Japanese performance being the standout.
We have to top the group as ye don't want to be facing the All Black's at the qf stage. The later the better
You weren't joking when you said the tickets were expensive. https://tickets.rugbyworldcup.com/site/assets/FixtureList.pdf
Quote from: JoG2 on September 20, 2015, 08:55:53 PM
90,000 at the match tonight. They are pulling in some serious cash as the tix were very expensive.
Really enjoying it, has been a good opening weekend. The Japanese performance being the standout.
We have to top the group as ye don't want to be facing the All Black's at the qf stage. The later the better
Top insight there, thanks for that. Argentina looked bloody good today too. Win the group and we'll likely play them, which would make me bloody nervous.
Argentina are a pack orientated team, they reply on the forwards to see out games, they wouldnt have the backs to threaten ireland if we match them up front.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 20, 2015, 06:09:56 PM
The Argies are under serious pressure here, been defending flat out the whole 2nd half. Ireland beat France they beat Argentina. The winger who missed the Sonny Bill pass makes New Zealand decision to leave Cory Jane at home look silly.
Butchered it alright, but if you have seen what he is capable of then is understandable.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 20, 2015, 11:58:42 PM
Argentina are a pack orientated team, they reply on the forwards to see out games, they wouldnt have the backs to threaten ireland if we match them up front.
You sound a bit too cocky there my friend given Ireland's previous at world cups. Argentina may not have creativity in the backs like NZ or Australia but then again Ireland's backs are far from devastating. I wouldn't expect us to be putting 10+ points on anyone from Scotland up in the rankings on a regular basis which means teams will always have a chance against Ireland.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 20, 2015, 11:58:42 PM
Argentina are a pack orientated team, they reply on the forwards to see out games, they wouldnt have the backs to threaten ireland if we match them up front.
Ffs, some of the back play from then yesterday was fantastic. Several great offloads and. Hernandez looked like it was 07 all over again, with some of the passes he was throwing little bits of genius that you would never see from Ireland.
Quote from: gallsman on September 21, 2015, 09:22:58 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 20, 2015, 11:58:42 PM
Argentina are a pack orientated team, they reply on the forwards to see out games, they wouldnt have the backs to threaten ireland if we match them up front.
Ffs, some of the back play from then yesterday was fantastic. Several great offloads and. Hernandez looked like it was 07 all over again, with some of the passes he was throwing little bits of genius that you would never see from Ireland.
Japan scored a try in the second half against the Bok's you'd do well to see better in this WC.. Fair play to them,
Really like the Uruguay jersey, where'd you get one?
Quote from: johnneycool on September 21, 2015, 11:30:57 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 21, 2015, 09:22:58 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 20, 2015, 11:58:42 PM
Argentina are a pack orientated team, they reply on the forwards to see out games, they wouldnt have the backs to threaten ireland if we match them up front.
Ffs, some of the back play from then yesterday was fantastic. Several great offloads and. Hernandez looked like it was 07 all over again, with some of the passes he was throwing little bits of genius that you would never see from Ireland.
Japan scored a try in the second half against the Bok's you'd do well to see better in this WC.. Fair play to them,
Really like the Uruguay jersey, where'd you get one?
http://www.rugbystore.co.uk/international/rugbyworldcup2015/rugbyshirts/otherteams/51900-345-rwc15-uruguay-home-shirt-s-s
Quote from: johnneycool on September 21, 2015, 11:30:57 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 21, 2015, 09:22:58 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 20, 2015, 11:58:42 PM
Argentina are a pack orientated team, they reply on the forwards to see out games, they wouldnt have the backs to threaten ireland if we match them up front.
Ffs, some of the back play from then yesterday was fantastic. Several great offloads and. Hernandez looked like it was 07 all over again, with some of the passes he was throwing little bits of genius that you would never see from Ireland.
Japan scored a try in the second half against the Bok's you'd do well to see better in this WC.. Fair play to them,
Really like the Uruguay jersey, where'd you get one?
Uruguay.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 21, 2015, 01:24:36 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 21, 2015, 11:30:57 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 21, 2015, 09:22:58 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 20, 2015, 11:58:42 PM
Argentina are a pack orientated team, they reply on the forwards to see out games, they wouldnt have the backs to threaten ireland if we match them up front.
Ffs, some of the back play from then yesterday was fantastic. Several great offloads and. Hernandez looked like it was 07 all over again, with some of the passes he was throwing little bits of genius that you would never see from Ireland.
Japan scored a try in the second half against the Bok's you'd do well to see better in this WC.. Fair play to them,
Really like the Uruguay jersey, where'd you get one?
Uruguay.
(http://files.sharenator.com/u_r_gay-s478x686-273308.jpg)
So are we really cheering on a West Brit organisation?
http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-west-brits-2343586-Sep2015/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-west-brits-2343586-Sep2015/)
When is this sh1te over?
Are Meath still in it?
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2015, 07:36:36 PM
So are we really cheering on a West Brit organisation?
http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-west-brits-2343586-Sep2015/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-west-brits-2343586-Sep2015/)
Is he not your mate?
(http://c1.thejournal.ie/media/2015/09/micheal-macdonncha-390x285.jpg)
(http://images.vectorhq.com/images/previews/6ef/beaker-psd-439014.png)
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2015, 07:36:36 PM
So are we really cheering on a West Brit organisation?
http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-west-brits-2343586-Sep2015/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-west-brits-2343586-Sep2015/)
This man is a proper republican . A hard barstweward !! He will united our isle.
MMD is a patriot .
England to go with Farrell and Burgess against the Welsh.
Jonathan Joseph carrying a knock apparently.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34324696
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 23, 2015, 10:13:25 AM
England to go with Farrell and Burgess against the Welsh.
Jonathan Joseph carrying a knock apparently.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34324696
Is this an all or nothing game for both as I cant see either beating Australia?
Quote from: NAG1 on September 23, 2015, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 23, 2015, 10:13:25 AM
England to go with Farrell and Burgess against the Welsh.
Jonathan Joseph carrying a knock apparently.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34324696
Is this an all or nothing game for both as I cant see either beating Australia?
Agreed. I fancy Australia to win the whole thing.
Think England will beat Wales by 7-10. They'll play a 10 man game and their pack will destroy the Welsh pack if Wyn-Jones doesn't start.
A few weeks ago I thought England wouldn't make it out of the group but the number of injuries the Welsh have suffered is catastrophic. Can't see them beating either of the other big two.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 23, 2015, 10:24:23 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on September 23, 2015, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 23, 2015, 10:13:25 AM
England to go with Farrell and Burgess against the Welsh.
Jonathan Joseph carrying a knock apparently.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34324696
Is this an all or nothing game for both as I cant see either beating Australia?
Agreed. I fancy Australia to win the whole thing.
Think England will beat Wales by 7-10. They'll play a 10 man game and their pack will destroy the Welsh pack if Wyn-Jones doesn't start.
The wings and fullbacks for both teams will only be kept warm returning kicks, will be crash bang wallop rugby at its worst. England to prevail with a penalty try or something exciting like that ::)
Japan looking OK when they get ball in hand but too many mistakes and penalties so far.
Quote from: gallsman on September 23, 2015, 02:55:58 PM
Japan looking OK when they get ball in hand but too many mistakes and penalties so far.
Yeah. Scotland are nowhere near as good as SA but the short turnaround will decide this one. Japan were sluggish getting going and will no doubt fade after 60 mins. Pity.
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 23, 2015, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: gallsman on September 23, 2015, 02:55:58 PM
Japan looking OK when they get ball in hand but too many mistakes and penalties so far.
Yeah. Scotland are nowhere near as good as SA but the short turnaround will decide this one. Japan were sluggish getting going and will no doubt fade after 60 mins. Pity.
All over now. Japan showing everything they did in the first game and putting the Scots under some real pressure but just keep making mistakes every time they come close to getting over the line and getting punished for them.
Romania are class!
France not a good side. They didn't commit to rucks against Italy and got away with it when Parisse wasn't about but the Romanians are getting well stuck in and are wiping the floor with them at the breakdown.
Romania won't win of course but France are poor. Add to that Saint Andre screaming at them like a bunch of schoolchildren at half time there and they look in trouble. Most of the lads seemed to be ignoring him!!!
I can't see France doing much unless they stage an England like mutiny and the players take over!!
Nice wee flying wedge from Romania there. Fair play to them. France definitely lacklustre but getting the job done.
Romania were terrific at the breakdown today before tiring towards the end. Ireland will be delighted to get then after only four days' rest.
Quote from: screenexile on September 23, 2015, 09:01:46 PM
France not a good side. They didn't commit to rucks against Italy and got away with it when Parisse wasn't about but the Romanians are getting well stuck in and are wiping the floor with them at the breakdown.
Romania won't win of course but France are poor. Add to that Saint Andre screaming at them like a bunch of schoolchildren at half time there and they look in trouble. Most of the lads seemed to be ignoring him!!!
I can't see France doing much unless they stage an England like mutiny and the players take over!!
In other words, exactly like the last world cup, which they won everywhere except on the referee's scorecard.
France are brutal you only have to look at the last day of the 6 nations. No English team should be beating France by twenty odd points yet it happened as they got sucked into playing headless chicken rugby. They have no discipline and their manager is completely clueless. Their only hope is Ireland choke which to be honest is fairly likely too going on previous tournaments. All big teams (except Wales) have played and I have not been too impressed by anyone.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 24, 2015, 08:48:55 AM
France are brutal you only have to look at the last day of the 6 nations. No English team should be beating France by twenty odd points yet it happened as they got sucked into playing headless chicken rugby. They have no discipline and their manager is completely clueless. Their only hope is Ireland choke which to be honest is fairly likely too going on previous tournaments. All big teams (except Wales) have played and I have not been too impressed by anyone.
Wales have played the Uruguay and didn't impress either, but I'd say some of the big nations are keeping their powder dry, keeping the middling nations at arms length for the bigger battles ahead.
Namibia up next today against the All Blacks, you'd gotta fear for Namibia shipping a big defeat here!
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 24, 2015, 08:48:55 AM
France are brutal you only have to look at the last day of the 6 nations. No English team should be beating France by twenty odd points yet it happened as they got sucked into playing headless chicken rugby. They have no discipline and their manager is completely clueless. Their only hope is Ireland choke which to be honest is fairly likely too going on previous tournaments. All big teams (except Wales) have played and I have not been too impressed by anyone.
I think of all the so called "Big Nations" Ireland did the most professional job of disposing of Canada!!
Quote from: screenexile on September 24, 2015, 10:01:29 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 24, 2015, 08:48:55 AM
France are brutal you only have to look at the last day of the 6 nations. No English team should be beating France by twenty odd points yet it happened as they got sucked into playing headless chicken rugby. They have no discipline and their manager is completely clueless. Their only hope is Ireland choke which to be honest is fairly likely too going on previous tournaments. All big teams (except Wales) have played and I have not been too impressed by anyone.
I think of all the so called "Big Nations" Ireland did the most professional job of disposing of Canada!!
I thought so too.
But beware England, France, and the rest when the games get serious. South Africa will still probably win that group as well.
Quote from: johnneycool on September 24, 2015, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 24, 2015, 08:48:55 AM
France are brutal you only have to look at the last day of the 6 nations. No English team should be beating France by twenty odd points yet it happened as they got sucked into playing headless chicken rugby. They have no discipline and their manager is completely clueless. Their only hope is Ireland choke which to be honest is fairly likely too going on previous tournaments. All big teams (except Wales) have played and I have not been too impressed by anyone.
Wales have played the Uruguay and didn't impress either, but I'd say some of the big nations are keeping their powder dry, keeping the middling nations at arms length for the bigger battles ahead.
Namibia up next today against the All Blacks, you'd gotta fear for Namibia shipping a big defeat here!
lol quite correct about Wales just goes to show what an impression or lack of they made on me. Keeping the minnows at arms length is one thing but SA were beaten, NZ were given a real fright. Australia missed a bonus point, England had to be gifted a bonus point and France really should have hammered a terrible Italian team and then also struggled for 60 mins against Romania :o. Ireland should fear no-one at this tournament they are as good as anyone else they just need to perform on the day and not go missing like they did against a very overrated Welsh team 4 years ago.
Quote from: screenexile on September 24, 2015, 10:01:29 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 24, 2015, 08:48:55 AM
France are brutal you only have to look at the last day of the 6 nations. No English team should be beating France by twenty odd points yet it happened as they got sucked into playing headless chicken rugby. They have no discipline and their manager is completely clueless. Their only hope is Ireland choke which to be honest is fairly likely too going on previous tournaments. All big teams (except Wales) have played and I have not been too impressed by anyone.
I think of all the so called "Big Nations" Ireland did the most professional job of disposing of Canada!!
Ireland's weakest XV should dispose of the likes of Canada with minimal ease. World Cups are a war of attrition and luck with injuries is as important as talent and application. If were up to to me, I'd be taking the 7-8 key Irish players aside and wrapping them in cotton wool until needed against a top-8 side.
I'm sure fellas who've played rugby will tell me that a team needs to play together regularly to gel, but from what I can see, formations and tactics are worked out on training grounds, not during matches, and no team has ever felt the need for a friendly match in preparation for a 6 Nations tournament.
That's what the Autumn internationals are really.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 24, 2015, 10:18:24 AM
That's what the Autumn internationals are really.
Were they not a complete waste of time? No-one showing anything, not picking full teams. A bit like the NFL preseason games.
In a world cup year, yes, but I think Wobbler is saying nobody plays warm ups for the 6 nations, but that is basically what the Autumn internationals are every year, albeit with a couple of months between them and the actual 6 nations. but those games are where lads are tried out with an eye on the 6 nations.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 24, 2015, 10:21:50 AM
In a world cup year, yes, but I think Wobbler is saying nobody plays warm ups for the 6 nations, but that is basically what the Autumn internationals are every year, albeit with a couple of months between them and the actual 6 nations. but those games are where lads are tried out with an eye on the 6 nations.
And also rake in a few quid.
Quote from: johnneycool on September 24, 2015, 10:24:18 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 24, 2015, 10:21:50 AM
In a world cup year, yes, but I think Wobbler is saying nobody plays warm ups for the 6 nations, but that is basically what the Autumn internationals are every year, albeit with a couple of months between them and the actual 6 nations. but those games are where lads are tried out with an eye on the 6 nations.
And also rake in a few quid.
Fundraisers.
Quote from: johnneycool on September 24, 2015, 10:24:18 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 24, 2015, 10:21:50 AM
In a world cup year, yes, but I think Wobbler is saying nobody plays warm ups for the 6 nations, but that is basically what the Autumn internationals are every year, albeit with a couple of months between them and the actual 6 nations. but those games are where lads are tried out with an eye on the 6 nations.
And also rake in a few quid.
True.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 24, 2015, 10:17:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 24, 2015, 10:01:29 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 24, 2015, 08:48:55 AM
France are brutal you only have to look at the last day of the 6 nations. No English team should be beating France by twenty odd points yet it happened as they got sucked into playing headless chicken rugby. They have no discipline and their manager is completely clueless. Their only hope is Ireland choke which to be honest is fairly likely too going on previous tournaments. All big teams (except Wales) have played and I have not been too impressed by anyone.
I think of all the so called "Big Nations" Ireland did the most professional job of disposing of Canada!!
Ireland's weakest XV should dispose of the likes of Canada with minimal ease. World Cups are a war of attrition and luck with injuries is as important as talent and application. If were up to to me, I'd be taking the 7-8 key Irish players aside and wrapping them in cotton wool until needed against a top-8 side.
I'm sure fellas who've played rugby will tell me that a team needs to play together regularly to gel, but from what I can see, formations and tactics are worked out on training grounds, not during matches, and no team has ever felt the need for a friendly match in preparation for a 6 Nations tournament.
Agreed just look at Wales and all their injuries. And what exactly did Ireland learn from all their warm up matches. Their B team played fantastic in Cardiff with an unbelievably low error count and then as they played more games and introduced the star players they actually became worse not better. If we lose Johnny Sexton then we are fooked so he should definitely be protected. Madigan can be brilliant but he can also be reckless and Paddy Jackson has potential but has never done it for Ireland
Madness for anyone to right off the French. In 6 World Cups they've made 3 semi finals and 3 finals!!
They might not have the superstars of past but you could argue they've 2 players of similar ability in every position and for a World Cup that is vital.
Strength in depth is key.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 24, 2015, 10:21:50 AM
In a world cup year, yes, but I think Wobbler is saying nobody plays warm ups for the 6 nations, but that is basically what the Autumn internationals are every year, albeit with a couple of months between them and the actual 6 nations. but those games are where lads are tried out with an eye on the 6 nations.
That's it. The autumn internationals are generally used to try out a few players among a semi-settled line-up. But then everyone goes away for a few months, and the team that starts in February is always, in terms of playing together, "cold".
I'd fully believe that almost every World Cup warm-up match was more vested in finances than team building. I can even understand that. What I can't understand is why the likes of Sexton, Murray, O'Connell, O'Brien and Ross are playing against B and C standard international teams. The modern game is too physical for these unnecessary risks.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 24, 2015, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 24, 2015, 10:21:50 AM
In a world cup year, yes, but I think Wobbler is saying nobody plays warm ups for the 6 nations, but that is basically what the Autumn internationals are every year, albeit with a couple of months between them and the actual 6 nations. but those games are where lads are tried out with an eye on the 6 nations.
That's it. The autumn internationals are generally used to try out a few players among a semi-settled line-up. But then everyone goes away for a few months, and the team that starts in February is always, in terms of playing together, "cold".
I'd fully believe that almost every World Cup warm-up match was more vested in finances than team building. I can even understand that. What I can't understand is why the likes of Sexton, Murray, O'Connell, O'Brien and Ross are playing against B and C standard international teams. The modern game is too physical for these unnecessary risks.
I think they'd play friendlies before the 6 nations too, at least one of them, if they weren't in the middle of the European Cup pool stages in January.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 24, 2015, 10:13:50 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 24, 2015, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 24, 2015, 08:48:55 AM
France are brutal you only have to look at the last day of the 6 nations. No English team should be beating France by twenty odd points yet it happened as they got sucked into playing headless chicken rugby. They have no discipline and their manager is completely clueless. Their only hope is Ireland choke which to be honest is fairly likely too going on previous tournaments. All big teams (except Wales) have played and I have not been too impressed by anyone.
Wales have played the Uruguay and didn't impress either, but I'd say some of the big nations are keeping their powder dry, keeping the middling nations at arms length for the bigger battles ahead.
Namibia up next today against the All Blacks, you'd gotta fear for Namibia shipping a big defeat here!
lol quite correct about Wales just goes to show what an impression or lack of they made on me. Keeping the minnows at arms length is one thing but SA were beaten, NZ were given a real fright. Australia missed a bonus point, England had to be gifted a bonus point and France really should have hammered a terrible Italian team and then also struggled for 60 mins against Romania :o. Ireland should fear no-one at this tournament they are as good as anyone else they just need to perform on the day and not go missing like they did against a very overrated Welsh team 4 years ago.
Argentina aren't minnows and are an established, improving Tier 1 test team. New Zealand didn't look great against them but it's nowhere near the same thing as a Tier 1 team looking bad against a Tier 2 one.
Argentina arent minnows correct but you would expect NZ to win by 20 or more points and bag an easy bonus point instead they only scored 2 tries in the final quarter to win pretty unconvincingly
Argentina have lost their lock for 9 weeks for eye gouging. Old habits die hard among the Argies.
If we meet them and aren't on the money they will give us bother.
People questioning NZ again after one game, again this is nuts. Why peak in game 1 or 2? They'll want to peak in 3 or 4 weeks time!
Thought this was good. And one of the best Anthems in the world.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/watch-moment-welsh-fans-shocked-10105177#ICID=FB-Wales-main (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/watch-moment-welsh-fans-shocked-10105177#ICID=FB-Wales-main)
Sonny Bill is some player. Would be on the all stars no hassle.
Jeez, Geordan Murphy is crap co-commentator. A dull, boring voice with poor comments and makes Phil Neville sound very excitable!!
Namibia playing well considering
Paddy power price for Ireland to get to the semi is 10/11. Very optimistic surely. Arg or NZ will be hard to get past.
And is Sergio Parisse injured ?
Quote from: seafoid on September 24, 2015, 09:59:21 PM
Paddy power price for Ireland to get to the semi is 10/11. Very optimistic surely. Arg or NZ will be hard to get past.
And is Sergio Parisse injured ?
We need to snap out of this inferior complex. Ireland even when they are shite are in the top 8 in the world, the fact they havent got to the semi finals once in 7 attempts is shocking. This current Ireland team have regularly beaten all the other big teams except New Zealand. Even New Zealand arent the all conquering invincibles they once were. If we meet Argentina it will be tough but we will win. If we meet NZ yes we willl probably lose but with a bit of luck you never know we could have beaten them twice recently if it wasnt for controversial late calls by Nigel Owens
Bullshit. Ireland bottled it in the game in 2013, nothing to do with referee decisions. If Sexton made a handy kick, we'd have won. He then missed the same kick in Paris a few months later.
I don't think there's any issue with an inferiority complex at all. Rather your attitude of "we will win" and that everyone else outside NZ are no great shakes smacks of an arrogance we've not earned.
Just saw New Zealand there for the first time, didn't see them in the Rugby Championship at all or the game v Argentina. I was struck by the pace they have in the side, but also the size of them. Relatively speaking, they look tiny. Is that something deliberate or what?
Quote from: gallsman on September 25, 2015, 08:33:29 AM
Bullshit. Ireland bottled it in the game in 2013, nothing to do with referee decisions. If Sexton made a handy kick, we'd have won. He then missed the same kick in Paris a few months later.
I don't think there's any issue with an inferiority complex at all. Rather your attitude of "we will win" and that everyone else outside NZ are no great shakes smacks of an arrogance we've not earned.
My missus said before the tournament started that Ireland wouldn't want to be relying on the boot of Sexton in the latter stages of a knockout match. Uncharted territory for them and not sure they'd have the mental toughness to kill of NZ or Australia.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 25, 2015, 08:43:34 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 25, 2015, 08:33:29 AM
Bullshit. Ireland bottled it in the game in 2013, nothing to do with referee decisions. If Sexton made a handy kick, we'd have won. He then missed the same kick in Paris a few months later.
I don't think there's any issue with an inferiority complex at all. Rather your attitude of "we will win" and that everyone else outside NZ are no great shakes smacks of an arrogance we've not earned.
My missus said before the tournament started that Ireland wouldn't want to be relying on the boot of Sexton in the latter stages of a knockout match. Uncharted territory for them and not sure they'd have the mental toughness to kill of NZ or Australia.
True. Sexton has a habit of missing easy kicks - that one against New Zealand in the drawn game was shocking.
Quote from: nrico2006 on September 25, 2015, 09:00:05 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 25, 2015, 08:43:34 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 25, 2015, 08:33:29 AM
Bullshit. Ireland bottled it in the game in 2013, nothing to do with referee decisions. If Sexton made a handy kick, we'd have won. He then missed the same kick in Paris a few months later.
I don't think there's any issue with an inferiority complex at all. Rather your attitude of "we will win" and that everyone else outside NZ are no great shakes smacks of an arrogance we've not earned.
My missus said before the tournament started that Ireland wouldn't want to be relying on the boot of Sexton in the latter stages of a knockout match. Uncharted territory for them and not sure they'd have the mental toughness to kill of NZ or Australia.
True. Sexton has a habit of missing easy kicks - that one against New Zealand in the drawn game was shocking.
Draw? We lost!
Quote from: gallsman on September 25, 2015, 08:33:29 AM
Bullshit. Ireland bottled it in the game in 2013, nothing to do with referee decisions. If Sexton made a handy kick, we'd have won. He then missed the same kick in Paris a few months later.
I don't think there's any issue with an inferiority complex at all. Rather your attitude of "we will win" and that everyone else outside NZ are no great shakes smacks of an arrogance we've not earned.
We have a history of choking I agree and I mentioned earlier regarding the QF against wales in 2011. The fact is Nigel Owens penalised Jack McGrath in 2013 with less than a min to go when Ireland had the ball and the decision was very iffy just like his decison to penalise Ireland in 2012 for wheeling a scrum with seconds to go. Ireland were ranked second in the world a few weeks back and are still ranked 5th in the world after all the meaningless warm up matches so I dont think it is arrogant at all to expect a SF berth and so far in this world cup the evidence is there for all to see that the other teams at the moment are no great shakes so it is wide open and the ultimate winner will be the team to come together at the right time and avoid injuries and there is no reason why that team cant be Ireland.
It's one thing to "expect", another to realise that it's an achievable possibility. I would be hopeful that Ireland can win the pool and then beat the Pumas. However, I realise that if France turn up, we could easily get beaten and then lose to the All Blacks heavily. Even if we win the pool, Argentina are good enough to beat us if they turn up, as are we them etc.
England and New Zealand are the teams we need to avoid. Since the last world cup are record against these teams is won 1 lost 8. The record against Argentina, Australia, South Africa and France is much much better won 8 drawn 2 lost 2.
I'd fancy us to beat England if we played them! I reckon Schmidt would have them well worked out as they'd have shown their full hand against Wales/Australia.
Quote from: screenexile on September 25, 2015, 09:38:07 AM
I'd fancy us to beat England if we played them! I reckon Schmidt would have them well worked out as they'd have shown their full hand against Wales/Australia.
If we are fully fit I would fancy ourselves against England but the English squad has more strength in depth so if we pick up a few injuries then we could be in trouble.
Wouldnt say the AB's are small AZ. They are fit and lean. NZ are the standard bearers for conditioning among all contact sports. Look at their front row. Dan Coles could beat most backs for pace.
They still have a vulnerable look about them however. It's making for an intriguing few weeks ahead.
That's what I meant. Lean. Their pack look like centres! Some of the other centres and wings in the competition look like tall props!
Wales v England is gonna be very interesting! Bit of slabbering going on.
12 changes made. Pretty happy with that selection. Henshaw's hamstring is a bit of a concern.
Ireland: Simon Zebo, Tommy Bowe, Jared Payne, Darren Cave, Keith Earls, Ian Madigan, Eoin Reddan; Cian Healy, Richardt Strauss, Nathan White, Donnacha Ryan, Devin Toner, Jordi Murphy, Chris Henry, Jamie Heaslip.
Replacements: Sean Cronin, Jack McGrath, Tadhg Furlong, Paul O'Connell, Sean O'Brien, Conor Murray, Paddy Jackson, Rob Kearney.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 25, 2015, 08:11:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 24, 2015, 09:59:21 PM
Paddy power price for Ireland to get to the semi is 10/11. Very optimistic surely. Arg or NZ will be hard to get past.
And is Sergio Parisse injured ?
We need to snap out of this inferior complex. Ireland even when they are shite are in the top 8 in the world, the fact they havent got to the semi finals once in 7 attempts is shocking.
Aye, but for the first four world cups Ireland were well down the pecking order and getting to the quarters was respectable.
Scheduling of games seems a bit mad with some teams getting way more advantage than others, Ireland been a great example. Not complaining this time though.
Quote from: Bingo on September 25, 2015, 01:57:22 PM
Scheduling of games seems a bit mad with some teams getting way more advantage than others, Ireland been a great example. Not complaining this time though.
Thought the same. Japan had to play SA and Scotland before Aus even touch a ball. It has worked out for Ireland mind so probably should say no more about it!
the schedules should have been make to suit the weaker teams leaving the world cup more competitive (It is already more competitive than previous world cups) as 2nd tier teams have made up alot of ground though still seem to fade out after 60mins.
good to see our partnership with South Africa bringing in an odd palyer lol
No.8 for Georgia is some animal, taking 3 or 4 Argies to bring him down, some player too.
I said it during the french match this italian team are awful. Fair play to canada though making a real game of it
Wtf is the Craic with singing sweet chariot or whatever when England aren't even playing!
Quote from: grounded on September 26, 2015, 05:14:20 PM
Wtf is the Craic with singing sweet chariot or whatever when England aren't even playing!
Its in England and mainly English fans watching?? Just a guess
any stream for the game tonight?
Tks
Would itv player have it on?
ITV Player (https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/itv) if you're in Britain/6 Co's.
TV3 Player (http://www.tv3.ie/3player/live/tv3/) rest of Ireland.
Jesus I can't have Owen Farrell... What is it with that f**king hand thing after he scores??
It was annoying me too, so I googled. It's showing support for a charity foundation for a terminally ill child. So I'll get over my annoyance, I suppose.
They look like trampling Wales here.
I feel like a right dickhead now :-[ :-[
I was that dickhead on my own sofa giving out.
Ah good man that explains it :o I suppose the same thing happened with the hosts of the previous rwc's
Had fancied Wales all week. Not so sure now. Had their spell.
Wales are being crucified with injuries.
England no 6 kicked yer man in the head and the lads ignore it.
The last man standing in Wales, get stripped your in for the next game!!
Couldnt see that England team beat New Zealand
Level fair play Wales.
Cmon te fook Wales.
Fine strike to take the lead. England pushing for the winning score now can Wales hold on?
Yehaaaaa swing low sweet chariot
You're going home England. (up the road)
What a finish. England imploded last 10. Still possible for England to qualify given the Welsh injury list, but big problems with the chariot.
Some guts from Wales!
Draw was enough for England as they could have thumped Uruguay on the last day.
By fcuk you have to admire those Welsh tonight. Losing men all over the place, plugging gaps in the team but they have some set of balls. Fair play.
Full credit to Wales but England lost the plot. Robshaw lost the plot there he wasn't thinking big picture and given Wales injuries a draw would have been grand and they could have taken there chances.
He'll be crucified for that in the papers!! Also the Burgess call was not a good one!
How did Wales do that with all there injuries and England so much in control.
PS. Garces was ridiculously quick on the whistle he gave a lot of penalties you wouldn't normally see.
Wales have always been like that. They can turn a wooden spoon into a grand slam in 12 months.
I wanted England to win. Hate Gatland and Wales! That's what happens when you have a Mayo man cheering for you! :P
That's what he get for looking into little boys bedroom windows, giants my hole
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 26, 2015, 10:04:54 PM
I wanted England to win. Hate Gatland and Wales! That's what happens when you have a Mayo man cheering for you! :P
Away with you. ABE
I think Farrell bottled it. He kicked well but made two major errors - missed touch in the first half and gave away a silly penalty in the second.
Why did they take off Flood? I thought he was very good.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 26, 2015, 10:35:02 PM
Why did they take off Flood? I thought he was very good.
Flood?
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 26, 2015, 10:35:02 PM
Why did they take off Flood? I thought he was very good.
Yer drunk.
AZ going retro on us here, do u mean Burgess been took off>?
England shit themselves, the same as the soccer team. It's all so easy when you're winning handy enough but the minute some pressure is applied it's a different story. Delighted for wales. Thats engerland in the same side of the draw as the all blacks and south Africa provided they get through. If wales manage to win the group we could be playing them for a place in the final. I know im getting ahead of myself
Quote from: An Watcher on September 26, 2015, 10:51:37 PM
England shit themselves, the same as the soccer team. It's all so easy when you're winning handy enough but the minute some pressure is applied it's a different story. Delighted for wales. Thats engerland in the same side of the draw as the all blacks and south Africa provided they get through. If wales manage to win the group we could be playing them for a place in the final. I know im getting ahead of myself
Australia have a say in that group!
the kick on the head to the wales full back was a serious knock. he looked in a bad way.
Quote from: bridgegael on September 26, 2015, 10:53:00 PM
the kick on the head to the wales full back was a serious knock. he looked in a bad way.
They're not faring too well in that position. If they assess him as having concussion he might not be back.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 26, 2015, 10:46:42 PM
AZ going retro on us here, do u mean Burgess been took off>?
Feck sorry, I meant youngs. The scrum half.
Youngs had an ankle injury.
Ah ok. I thought the game turned when he went off.
Quote from: ONeill on September 26, 2015, 10:52:44 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on September 26, 2015, 10:51:37 PM
England shit themselves, the same as the soccer team. It's all so easy when you're winning handy enough but the minute some pressure is applied it's a different story. Delighted for wales. Thats engerland in the same side of the draw as the all blacks and south Africa provided they get through. If wales manage to win the group we could be playing them for a place in the final. I know im getting ahead of myself
Australia have a say in that group!
Australia will win the group almost certainly.
Australia will beat wales and england will beat australia so bonus points here for 4 tries and losing by less than 7 will be the key.
The bookies still have England as second favourites at 6/1 which seems rather strange. I think England will beat Australia but it is pretty much 50/50 ie lose that match and they are gone.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 28, 2015, 07:58:47 AM
The bookies still have England as second favourites at 6/1 which seems rather strange. I think England will beat Australia but it is pretty much 50/50 ie lose that match and they are gone.
They weren't impressive against Fiji or Wales... What makes you think they will win against Australia?? Granted they will beat Wales as they have used up all their luck in beating England with the run of injuries they have sustained... But I'm not overly convinced as they lack a real leader on the pitch
Reading Stuart Barnes' assessment of England (& specifically Robshaw) in today's Times was absolutely brutal. The venom in the article was unreal.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2015, 09:07:08 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 28, 2015, 07:58:47 AM
The bookies still have England as second favourites at 6/1 which seems rather strange. I think England will beat Australia but it is pretty much 50/50 ie lose that match and they are gone.
They weren't impressive against Fiji or Wales... What makes you think they will win against Australia?? Granted they will beat Wales as they have used up all their luck in beating England with the run of injuries they have sustained... But I'm not overly convinced as they lack a real leader on the pitch
I think they will win and scrape through with their bonus points but it will be funny if Australia knock them out
Quote from: bennydorano on September 28, 2015, 09:32:53 PM
Reading Stuart Barnes' assessment of England (& specifically Robshaw) in today's Times was absolutely brutal. The venom in the article was unreal.
Aye :-\
If Stuart Lancaster was any sort of field marshal, he would dismiss his most decorated general after Saturday's appalling error when the battle for Twickenham was there to be saved. Chris Robshaw's inability to realise that a draw would have hurt the walking wounded of Wales more than his own men was the worst piece of captaincy I can remember in my playing or media days.
I thought at the time fair fcuks for going for it... They were winning the line outs handy and probably thought they'd at the very least force another penalty closer in... Hindsight is a wonderful thing
Billy vunipola out for the rest of the tournament is a big loss. The chariot wheels are getting loose...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
I thought at the time fair fcuks for going for it... They were winning the line outs handy and probably thought they'd at the very least force another penalty closer in... Hindsight is a wonderful thing
Me too, plus it was hardly a give me kick either (I watching on a stream with 3 kids round me feet so am open to correction here).
Quote from: gawa316 on September 28, 2015, 11:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
I thought at the time fair fcuks for going for it... They were winning the line outs handy and probably thought they'd at the very least force another penalty closer in... Hindsight is a wonderful thing
Me too, plus it was hardly a give me kick either (I watching on a stream with 3 kids round me feet so am open to correction here).
You are correct. Would have been a tough enough kick plus from the kick to touch they could have worked a drop goal attempt if the maul didn't get them over the line. If they missed the kick they were reliant on getting the ball on the restart or a quick turnover. Hindsight is great and if they made it they would have been heroes.
Quote from: gawa316 on September 28, 2015, 11:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
I thought at the time fair fcuks for going for it... They were winning the line outs handy and probably thought they'd at the very least force another penalty closer in... Hindsight is a wonderful thing
Me too, plus it was hardly a give me kick either (I watching on a stream with 3 kids round me feet so am open to correction here).
How are you watching it gawa?
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 28, 2015, 11:52:57 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on September 28, 2015, 11:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
I thought at the time fair fcuks for going for it... They were winning the line outs handy and probably thought they'd at the very least force another penalty closer in... Hindsight is a wonderful thing
Me too, plus it was hardly a give me kick either (I watching on a stream with 3 kids round me feet so am open to correction here).
How are you watching it gawa?
Watched that game on firstrowsports but it was awful. Since I have been told to download hola on chrome, then set my location to UK and watch it on ITV player. Seen the Ireland game like this and worked a treat apart from just a few occasions where it froze.
What about you?
Quote from: andoireabu on September 28, 2015, 10:22:42 PM
Billy vunipola out for the rest of the tournament is a big loss. The chariot wheels are getting loose...
injuries and bonus points will decide a England's group.
It is all about squad depth .
Quote from: gawa316 on September 29, 2015, 12:53:16 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 28, 2015, 11:52:57 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on September 28, 2015, 11:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
I thought at the time fair fcuks for going for it... They were winning the line outs handy and probably thought they'd at the very least force another penalty closer in... Hindsight is a wonderful thing
Me too, plus it was hardly a give me kick either (I watching on a stream with 3 kids round me feet so am open to correction here).
How are you watching it gawa?
Watched that game on firstrowsports but it was awful. Since I have been told to download hola on chrome, then set my location to UK and watch it on ITV player. Seen the Ireland game like this and worked a treat apart from just a few occasions where it froze.
What about you?
If you are abroad just download the filmon app and watch all freeview uk channels.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 28, 2015, 11:27:22 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on September 28, 2015, 11:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
I thought at the time fair fcuks for going for it... They were winning the line outs handy and probably thought they'd at the very least force another penalty closer in... Hindsight is a wonderful thing
Me too, plus it was hardly a give me kick either (I watching on a stream with 3 kids round me feet so am open to correction here).
You are correct. Would have been a tough enough kick plus from the kick to touch they could have worked a drop goal attempt if the maul didn't get them over the line. If they missed the kick they were reliant on getting the ball on the restart or a quick turnover. Hindsight is great and if they made it they would have been heroes.
But he hadn't missed a kick all day. I know it's easy to say, but as soon as they pointed for the corner I said 'wrong call', and I doubt I'll be attracting any interest for rugby coaching jobs. In one sense I admired their balls going for it, but pragmatically, I couldn't understand how you don't give a kicker who has missed nothing a bang at that. To be brutally frank, that's why he's there. It wasn't a gimme, but it wasn't 55 metres out into the wind either.
Can you imagine Jonny Wilkinson not kicking that?
Kicking to the corner may have been the brave thing to do, but they threw away any kudos they might get for that by taking the soft option of throwing it to the front of the lineout, a decision which was righteously punished by the cute Welsh hoors. How many wrong decisions can you make before it can't be dismissed as shit happens?
Quote from: deiseach on September 29, 2015, 10:45:35 AM
Kicking to the corner may have been the brave thing to do, but they threw away any kudos they might get for that by taking the soft option of throwing it to the front of the lineout, a decision which was righteously punished by the cute Welsh hoors. How many wrong decisions can you make before it can't be dismissed as shit happens?
Correct, I meant to say that. If you're going for the pushover, why fecking throw it to the front of the lineout where you have about 3 metres of space by the time everyone gathers around. So if you were brave going to the corner (debatable), then you were cowardly going to the first jumper.
O'Driscoll was very good on it on "Off The Ball" last night. Basically said that if the kickers didn't fancy it (which was the basic implication of Robshaw's post match interview) then the captain had to make his own decision. So he said the decision to go down the line (right or wrong) was strong captaincy - but then he said the decision to go to the front was the weakest piece of captaincy that Robshaw had displayed. BOD couldn't figure out how you could have two such contrasting decisions within seconds of each other.
I can't believe Farrell didn't fancy it. He was metronomic all day. It wasn't a crazy position.
When it comes to deciding whether to take a kick, is it the kicker's choice? Would a captain ever insist on it if the player said he didn't fancy it? It would be interesting to know what the done thing is in rugby.
Complicated by the fact Ford was on the pitch as well and involved in the discussion - apparently Ford was the most gung ho, basically saying to Robshaw they should go for a win.
deiseach, Ronan O'Gara said in his column he was very rarely consulted by B O'D, Paulie or Gallaimh. He was just told to kick it. But he said they always said stuff like kick it there ROG, not a bother to you, and it gave him a bit of a boost.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 29, 2015, 10:57:52 AM
I can't believe Farrell didn't fancy it. He was metronomic all day. It wasn't a crazy position.
I think Farrell was subbed off at that stage. Could be wrong
No, i think he had moved to centre to accomodate Ford coming in at outhalf.
Quote from: HiMucker on September 29, 2015, 11:10:08 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 29, 2015, 10:57:52 AM
I can't believe Farrell didn't fancy it. He was metronomic all day. It wasn't a crazy position.
I think Farrell was subbed off at that stage. Could be wrong
No, as easytiger says, Ford came on for Burgess, and Farrell moved to centre. (which was a strange move itself, the Welsh centres and back rowers targetted Ford straight away)
Quote from: easytiger95 on September 29, 2015, 10:55:29 AM
O'Driscoll was very good on it on "Off The Ball" last night. Basically said that if the kickers didn't fancy it (which was the basic implication of Robshaw's post match interview) then the captain had to make his own decision. So he said the decision to go down the line (right or wrong) was strong captaincy - but then he said the decision to go to the front was the weakest piece of captaincy that Robshaw had displayed. BOD couldn't figure out how you could have two such contrasting decisions within seconds of each other.
Now I'm no expert at this rugby game, Ards thirds doesn't really count in the bigger scheme of things, but even I knew the throw to the front of the line was an unmitigated disaster right when they did it and it gave the Welsh lads an easy target to force them over the sideline.
Considering the English line out was going reasonably well (granted the hooker had been changed), but throwing it deeper would have left England a blindside to attack as well meaning the patched up Welsh couldn't commit so many to the maul, but that's the way it goes.
Another thing,
The English rush defence of Farrell at inside centre and Barrit at outside centre made some balls of it for the Welsh try, a good long pass took both out of it and allowed the Welsh in behind where the wee kick ahead into the centre worked a treat.
I really can't see the point in these pre-planned substitutions. Unless a lad is out on his feet, why would you change him, especially if he's doing well. To get Ford on, England made three positional changes, Burgess off, Barrit to 13, not his natural position and Farrell to 12, also not his natural position!! Lancaster may have been trying to ride two horses with the one arse and come a cropper!
Great viewing all the same, wee Mike Brown was losing the plot and the Welsh lads were laying it on thick..
The England, Aus game should be a humdinger as the Aussies would take great pleasure in putting England out early doors!
Quote from: johnneycool on September 29, 2015, 11:33:16 AM
The England, Aus game should be a humdinger everyone would take great pleasure in putting England out early doors!
Fixed that for you.
Quote from: deiseach on September 29, 2015, 10:45:35 AM
Kicking to the corner may have been the brave thing to do, but they threw away any kudos they might get for that by taking the soft option of throwing it to the front of the lineout, a decision which was righteously punished by the cute Welsh hoors. How many wrong decisions can you make before it can't be dismissed as shit happens?
At this point they panicked. they obviously didn't trust throwing it to the back and decided that get it to the front safely (as they had won must of the rucks/scrums that match) and manoeuvre it in... either or I'm with the other poster that the Aussies would be mad not to get the host nation out as soon as possible as they could by whatever means meet them in the final!! be silly not to rub their noses in it ;D
Quote from: deiseach on September 29, 2015, 11:02:02 AM
When it comes to deciding whether to take a kick, is it the kicker's choice? Would a captain ever insist on it if the player said he didn't fancy it? It would be interesting to know what the done thing is in rugby.
If a kicker didn't fancy it I wouldn't be forcing it on them (if and when I get to captain the England rugby team) considering the mindsight those chaps have to get themselves into*. In that instance it's off the cards and if that was the situation with Robshaw then he had no option. Short lineout being another issue altogether.
*My lads have been really into the various quirks of the kickers. Biggar's chest-rubbing, hair fixing and banty impression the winner so far!
Ford looked to be calling the shots from what I saw. Robshaw was merely discussing at the end. Shane Horgan made a very valid point on Second Captains last night. There was 4 mins left when Biggar slotted the last penalty. More than enough time for a waterboy/medic to get info on to Robshaw that any kick within distance had to taken. Jesus lads I played outhalf and kicked many times myself. 32 metres with a rugby ball isn't far. Especially to a robot like Farrell. He's limited attacking wise but without doubt in the top 3 kickers in the world!
Shane Horgan also talked about the fact that Lancaster has left Robshaw out to dry in the media. There are even rumours Farrell wanted the kick. Doesn't bode well for the Australia game!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 29, 2015, 01:49:49 PM
Ford looked to be calling the shots from what I saw. Robshaw was merely discussing at the end. Shane Horgan made a very valid point on Second Captains last night. There was 4 mins left when Biggar slotted the last penalty. More than enough time for a waterboy/medic to get info on to Robshaw that any kick within distance had to taken. Jesus lads I played outhalf and kicked many times myself. 32 metres with a rugby ball isn't far. Especially to a robot like Farrell. He's limited attacking wise but without doubt in the top 3 kickers in the world!
Shane Horgan also talked about the fact that Lancaster has left Robshaw out to dry in the media. There are even rumours Farrell wanted the kick. Doesn't bode well for the Australia game!
I thought between the 3 of them (Lancaster, Robshaw and Farrell) they were very milk and watery in their comments. Robshaw certainly more than implicated the kickers in the decision. Farrell sounded more like he wouldn't have minded, but they 'wanted the win'. Lancaster has certainly implied criticism of the decision, and therefore the captain.
They need to regroup quick, but they don't seem very united in this one anyway. I'd have thought Robshaw would just say 'Yep, I thought we'd go for the win, and it just didn't work out'.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 29, 2015, 01:39:29 PM
If a kicker didn't fancy it I wouldn't be forcing it on them (if and when I get to captain the England rugby team) considering the mindsight those chaps have to get themselves into*. In that instance it's off the cards and if that was the situation with Robshaw then he had no option. Short lineout being another issue altogether.
*My lads have been really into the various quirks of the kickers. Biggar's chest-rubbing, hair fixing and banty impression the winner so far!
That makes sense. The thing is though, rugby puts great stock in the leadership skills of a captain. The battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton and all that. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a philosophy in the sport that a player should do as he is told by his captain, much like they would have done in Flanders.
I can see why England didn't want to take the kick as well. Get level and Wales still have a last shot at it. Get 7 from a try and it's the game virtually won.
Also they're the tournament hosts and England as well. Imagine the message it sends out that they're happy to grab a draw against poxy little Wales. It would be a Dunkirk like retreat on Twickenham's green and pleasant field, when in fact they're the land of the Crusaders, the empire builders and all that.
I'm sure they've spent months sitting through powerpoint presentations about how they aim to blaze through the group, excite the country and go on to win the tournament. Sometimes rationalising the immediate problem gets lost in the haze.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on September 29, 2015, 02:56:33 PM
I can see why England didn't want to take the kick as well. Get level and Wales still have a last shot at it. Get 7 from a try and it's the game virtually won.
Also they're the tournament hosts and England as well. Imagine the message it sends out that they're happy to grab a draw against poxy little Wales. It would be a Dunkirk like retreat on Twickenham's green and pleasant field, when in fact they're the land of the Crusaders, the empire builders and all that.
I'm sure they've spent months sitting through powerpoint presentations about how they aim to blaze through the group, excite the country and go on to win the tournament. Sometimes rationalising the immediate problem gets lost in the haze.
They really should have won that match. Wales are fairly crocked now.
Quote from: deiseach on September 29, 2015, 11:37:28 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 29, 2015, 11:33:16 AM
The England, Aus game should be a humdinger everyone would take great pleasure in putting England out early doors!
Fixed that for you.
I dunno. NZ might be playing France in the qf and who wants to see another southern hemisphere RWC win? the tans are the only team from the north to win the shagging thing.
so the more NH teams in the last 4 the better.
Quote from: ONeill on September 13, 2015, 10:53:02 PM
Any chance England won't get outta the group?
Depends on Wales vs Fiji and bonus points I think.
Wales are walking wounded.
England vs Oz should be a cracker.
Quote from: seafoid on September 29, 2015, 04:38:54 PM
I dunno. NZ might be playing France in the qf and who wants to see another southern hemisphere RWC win? the tans are the only team from the north to win the shagging thing.
so the more NH teams in the last 4 the better.
Ordinarily I'd agree with you. I rooted for England against Australia in 2003. But the rolling bandwagon of English self-congratulation as they rumble through the tournament on their own turf will become too much, guaranteed. Best to stop it before it starts. Sick bags at the ready: "Swing low..."
Who will the English support when they go out early? Us? :D
Be interesting to see who England go with on Saturday night. I reckon he'll stick with Farrell and Burgess. If Joseph doesnt return we might see Henry Slade get a shot at 13.
Quote from: seafoid on September 29, 2015, 04:43:12 PM
Quote from: ONeill on September 13, 2015, 10:53:02 PM
Any chance England won't get outta the group?
Depends on Wales vs Fiji and bonus points I think.
Wales are walking wounded.
England vs Oz should be a cracker.
If England don't win against Oz they are fooked. Wales should scrape past Fiji then bonus points won't matter.
Quote from: dferg on September 29, 2015, 06:02:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 29, 2015, 04:43:12 PM
Quote from: ONeill on September 13, 2015, 10:53:02 PM
Any chance England won't get outta the group?
Depends on Wales vs Fiji and bonus points I think.
Wales are walking wounded.
England vs Oz should be a cracker.
If England don't win against Oz they are fooked. Wales should scrape past Fiji then bonus points won't matter.
But what if Oz beats Wales, Eng beat Oz they will all be on the same points so bonus points will matter
Quote from: gawa316 on September 29, 2015, 12:53:16 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 28, 2015, 11:52:57 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on September 28, 2015, 11:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
I thought at the time fair fcuks for going for it... They were winning the line outs handy and probably thought they'd at the very least force another penalty closer in... Hindsight is a wonderful thing
Me too, plus it was hardly a give me kick either (I watching on a stream with 3 kids round me feet so am open to correction here).
How are you watching it gawa?
Watched that game on firstrowsports but it was awful. Since I have been told to download hola on chrome, then set my location to UK and watch it on ITV player. Seen the Ireland game like this and worked a treat apart from just a few occasions where it froze.
What about you?
Been restricted to highlights so far. >:( Which isnt that bigo deal as yet as I have been very busy but wud like to have seen Eng v Wal
Thanks for the tip tho will get on it now Irelands bigger matches are comin up
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 29, 2015, 06:46:58 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on September 29, 2015, 12:53:16 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 28, 2015, 11:52:57 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on September 28, 2015, 11:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
I thought at the time fair fcuks for going for it... They were winning the line outs handy and probably thought they'd at the very least force another penalty closer in... Hindsight is a wonderful thing
Me too, plus it was hardly a give me kick either (I watching on a stream with 3 kids round me feet so am open to correction here).
How are you watching it gawa?
Watched that game on firstrowsports but it was awful. Since I have been told to download hola on chrome, then set my location to UK and watch it on ITV player. Seen the Ireland game like this and worked a treat apart from just a few occasions where it froze.
What about you?
Been restricted to highlights so far. >:( Which isnt that bigo deal as yet as I have been very busy but wud like to have seen Eng v Wal
Thanks for the tip tho will get on it now Irelands bigger matches are comin up
Semi and Final is on NBC sports so at least you'll see Ireland on the tele for those games ;)
Fiji are available at 6/1 against the Welsh,i think that's cracking value. In theory that's a 14-15% chance. I'd be giving them a bigger shout than that,the Welsh were ordinary for most of the game the other night and as well as the boys missing there's bound to be a few knocks amongst the starters on Thursday.
Quote from: beer baron on September 29, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Fiji are available at 6/1 against the Welsh,i think that's cracking value. In theory that's a 14-15% chance. I'd be giving them a bigger shout than that,the Welsh were ordinary for most of the game the other night and as well as the boys missing there's bound to be a few knocks amongst the starters on Thursday.
The best would be to taken them with the plus handicap... Wales still better than Fiji and with more to play for than Fiji
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 29, 2015, 07:20:22 PM
Quote from: beer baron on September 29, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Fiji are available at 6/1 against the Welsh,i think that's cracking value. In theory that's a 14-15% chance. I'd be giving them a bigger shout than that,the Welsh were ordinary for most of the game the other night and as well as the boys missing there's bound to be a few knocks amongst the starters on Thursday.
The best would be to taken them with the plus handicap... Wales still better than Fiji and with more to play for than Fiji
Yeah in truth that's probably what will be my main bet with a little nibble on the win.
Quote from: deiseach on September 29, 2015, 04:57:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 29, 2015, 04:38:54 PM
I dunno. NZ might be playing France in the qf and who wants to see another southern hemisphere RWC win? the tans are the only team from the north to win the shagging thing.
so the more NH teams in the last 4 the better.
Ordinarily I'd agree with you. I rooted for England against Australia in 2003. But the rolling bandwagon of English self-congratulation as they rumble through the tournament on their own turf will become too much, guaranteed. Best to stop it before it starts. Sick bags at the ready: "Swing low..."
TF1 the French equivalent of RTE1 is as bad for jingoism as the worst Charioting.
Good article from D'Arcy.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby-world-cup-2015/gordon-d-arcy-burgess-is-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821
That is very good from D'Arcy. I see the media are running with the Sam Burgess comments even though they are constructive and well articulated by D'Arcy.
O'Gara wrote a good column in the examiner about the England penalty at the end saying that while it looked like he had the bottle to take pressure kicks more often than not it was O'Connell telling him he had no choice but to take them.
Quote from: deiseach on September 29, 2015, 04:57:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 29, 2015, 04:38:54 PM
I dunno. NZ might be playing France in the qf and who wants to see another southern hemisphere RWC win? the tans are the only team from the north to win the shagging thing.
so the more NH teams in the last 4 the better.
Ordinarily I'd agree with you. I rooted for England against Australia in 2003. But the rolling bandwagon of English self-congratulation as they rumble through the tournament on their own turf will become too much, guaranteed. Best to stop it before it starts. Sick bags at the ready: "Swing low..."
In fairness, the Irish media are giving their counterparts in England a good run for their money in this regard.
Honestly think the French have Ireland firmly in the crosshairs and have possibly ropeadoped us.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 30, 2015, 01:21:02 PM
Good article from D'Arcy.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby-world-cup-2015/gordon-d-arcy-burgess-is-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821
Absolutely a superb analysis on a game - he puts most rugby sports journalists to shame - why is he not on the TV3 panel????
Australia have named their team for Saturday!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34409615
England: Mike Brown; Anthony Watson, Jonathan Joseph, Brad Barritt, Jonny May; Owen Farrell, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Tom Youngs, Dan Cole, Joe Launchbury, Geoff Parling, Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw, Ben Morgan.
Replacements: Rob Webber, Mako Vunipola, Kieran Brookes, George Kruis, Nick Easter, Richard Wigglesworth, George Ford, Sam Burgess.
No real surprises in the English team either. Burgess back on the bench again.
Wales looked good in the first half, but Fiji haven't read the script here and are right back in the game.
Between the outhalf bottling simple kicks and genrerally being sh1te and Fiji butchering chance after chance in the 22 Wales are going to scrape through this.
Wales could have had another couple of tries in the first half. But they've done enough to win this one.
Fiji fumbled on practically on the line, the resulting penalty they missed prior to scoring their try.
Tickets sorted for Ireland v Italy on Sunday. Can't wait!!!
Wales could still easily miss the Q/Fs. If England beat Australia by 7 points or less and neither team getting a 4 try bonus then the table would be
Wales 13
Aus 10
Eng 10
Then England win and score four tries against Uruguay and Australia narrowly beat Wales
Eng 15
Aus 14
Wales 14
First tie breaker is head to head and Australia go through.
England beating Oz is the big if in that scenario.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 01, 2015, 08:09:31 PM
England beating Oz is the big if in that scenario.
Agreed, a couple of big hitters down or not, cannot see anything other than an Australian win
Should be a hard hitting affair
Canada making this interesting.
As I have said on numerous occasions I know fcuk all about the egg chasing but some of the games in this World Cup are brilliant. Come on Canada!!!!
Brilliant game
Quote from: BennyHarp on October 01, 2015, 07:25:53 PM
Tickets sorted for Ireland v Italy on Sunday. Can't wait!!!
Jaysus stay well clear of me ;)
Quote from: 5 Sams on October 01, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
As I have said on numerous occasions I know fcuk all about the egg chasing but some of the games in this World Cup are brilliant. Come on Canada!!!!
Some of the lesser lights are showing the so called first class nations how to throw the ball about the place. Fiji historically loved the 7's and that's always been part of their game, but Canada, the US, Japan also are pretty handy once the ball is in open play.
It's the kicking and set piece where they struggle, but are a joy to watch.
It has been a fantastic tournament to date. Have thoroughly enjoyed the games.
Looking forward to seeing the lads on Sunday and cannot wait for Cardiff next week.
Anyone heading over?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 30, 2015, 01:21:02 PM
Good article from D'Arcy.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby-world-cup-2015/gordon-d-arcy-burgess-is-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821
Is some of the criticism of Burgess based on anti-Ruby League snobbery? Know your place, don't be thinking our code can be picked up quickly.
Burgess might not have been great, but there were worse offenders, like the ones who gave away crucial penalties. Also, Burgess was already off when England went into reverse.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 02, 2015, 12:27:40 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 30, 2015, 01:21:02 PM
Good article from D'Arcy.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby-world-cup-2015/gordon-d-arcy-burgess-is-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821
Is some of the criticism of Burgess based on anti-Ruby League snobbery? Know your place, don't be thinking our code can be picked up quickly.
Burgess might not have been great, but there were worse offenders, like the ones who gave away crucial penalties. Also, Burgess was already off when England went into reverse.
Don't think D'Arcy wouldnt be that sort to be honest. Any union player worth his salt knows that plenty of aspects of league are of high quality. Decoy running, offloading and strong defence are all facets of league play.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 02, 2015, 09:06:02 AM
It has been a fantastic tournament to date. Have thoroughly enjoyed the games.
Looking forward to seeing the lads on Sunday and cannot wait for Cardiff next week.
Anyone heading over?
Heading from London for the France game, going to spend the night in Cardiff the night before. Still some decent deals on airbnb compared to the hotels. The trip from London to Cardiff for the Canada game was ridiculous , standing all the way to Cardiff. Anyone heading to the Italy game?
Team selected to face Italy.
Ireland: Simon Zebo, Tommy Bowe, Keith Earls, Robbie Henshaw, Dave Kearney, Jonathan Sexton, Conor Murray, Jack McGrath, Rory Best, Mike Ross, Iain Henderson, Paul O'Connell, Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip
Replacements: Sean Cronin, Cian Healy, Nathan White, Devin Toner, Chris Henry, Eoin Reddan, Ian Madigan, Luke Fitzgerald
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 02, 2015, 01:34:59 PM
Team selected to face Italy.
Ireland: Simon Zebo, Tommy Bowe, Keith Earls, Robbie Henshaw, Dave Kearney, Jonathan Sexton, Conor Murray, Jack McGrath, Rory Best, Mike Ross, Iain Henderson, Paul O'Connell, Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip
Replacements: Sean Cronin, Cian Healy, Nathan White, Devin Toner, Chris Henry, Eoin Reddan, Ian Madigan, Luke Fitzgerald
Payne and Kearney are obviously injured.
It could be a much more open game than we have seen before with Schmidt with those backs.
Things not really going to plan for the All Blacks. Lots of errors.
Would love to see England go out tonight. Aussie game next week to decide who is potentially in Irelands half of the draw provided we beat the french
Samoa looked really average versus Japan. You'd have to wonder at the advantage Scotland got rest wise in their first game against Japan.
Up the Sheilas
Australia are a decent price.. I don't think playing at Twickenham has actually helped England... Worth a fiver for an interest...
Aussie won't collapse from here surely.
Great chance of the bonus point for the Aussies.
Clive Woodward is optimistic. Thinks England are playing well. The man is almost mad enough to manage Mayo!
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 03, 2015, 08:52:49 PM
Clive Woodward is optimistic. Thinks England are playing well. The man is almost mad enough to manage Mayo!
We would at least make a semi. :D
This is mighty stuff. Next weekend our World Cup really starts. Bit mad to think England's WC looks like being done before ours starts.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 03, 2015, 08:52:49 PM
Clive Woodward is optimistic. Thinks England are playing well. The man is almost mad enough to manage Mayo!
England are 5/1 they have a lot of ball but feck up... They could run in a couple of tries... If they get next score... Could be interesting... Cash out @ 11 and have a pop at Brown to get next try for England...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Foley someone busy on the editing tonight.
Quote from: Dag Dog on October 03, 2015, 08:50:18 PM
Great chance of the bonus point for the Aussies.
They don't need a bonus point. Just to win. Australia look in a different class in first half.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 03, 2015, 08:52:49 PM
Clive Woodward is optimistic. Thinks England are playing well. The man is almost mad enough to manage Mayo!
If he put his name in the hat he might be lucky enough to get the Down job
England digging a big hole and at this stage I can't see them getting out of it. Terrible to think that the host nation may not make the quarter finals :'(
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 03, 2015, 08:52:49 PM
Clive Woodward is optimistic. Thinks England are playing well. The man is almost mad enough to manage Mayo!
Nobody is that mad? Are they?
They took May off!
Discipline going
Wrong decision to kick the penalty on 64 mins there. A draw is no good to them. Still need 2 more scores.
Game over... Lights out!! Even Scotland has a chance of making the Q/finals 😁
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2015, 09:42:45 PM
Game over... Lights out!! Even Scotland has a chance of making the Q/finals 😁
There will be a bunch of refugees in chariots camping on the English side of the Channel Tunnel tonight!
Foley is a surname which originated in Ireland, in the southeast Munster region. The name is derived from the original modern Irish Ó Foghlú and older Irish Ó Foghladha, meaning "plunderer".
Wonder if Woodward remains optimistic? While there was a brief stirring either side of their try they were abysmal
Robshaw is a surname which originated in England, in the southeast Kent region. The name is derived from the original modern Kentish, Ó Robdaw and older Saxon, Ó Robshite, meaning "blunderer". ;D
Could be looking at the World cup winners to be tonight.
bye bye
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:51:12 PM
Could be looking at the World cup winners to be tonight.
They need to keep Foley wrapped in cotton wool.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:51:12 PM
Could be looking at the World cup winners to be tonight.
In fairness England have been pathetic. A wrecked Wales will likely give them a better challenge.
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 09:53:33 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:51:12 PM
Could be looking at the World cup winners to be tonight.
In fairness England have been pathetic. A wrecked Wales will likely give them a better challenge.
Wales might realise they going to lose anyhow and just give there subs a game. Save whatever fit players they have for the 1/4 final.
Quote from: dferg on October 03, 2015, 09:56:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 03, 2015, 09:53:33 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2015, 09:51:12 PM
Could be looking at the World cup winners to be tonight.
In fairness England have been pathetic. A wrecked Wales will likely give them a better challenge.
Wales might realise they going to lose anyhow and just give there subs a game. Save whatever fit players they have for the 1/4 final.
The winners will likely play Scotland, the losers RSA so plenty to play for.
Christ it must be painful for English folk watching their team pass the ball out the back division. A local team's 3rds would have more craft. Unbelievably limited.
Its been a really enjoyable RWC so far.
Part of me wanted them to go a bit further. Knocked out in the semis would have been ideal.
The thing with England being out of the WC is there is no one left that we love to hate! Sort of leaves the competition a bit more empty?
It's mad that Englands world cup is over before Ireland's really starts!!! Cheerio chariots!
Quote from: JoG2 on October 03, 2015, 10:45:29 PM
Christ it must be painful for English folk watching their team pass the ball out the back division. A local team's 3rds would have more craft. Unbelievably limited.
Its been a really enjoyable RWC so far.
We aren't exactly the harlam globetrotters when it comes to back moves ourselves.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 03, 2015, 11:01:52 PM
It's mad that Englands world cup is over before Ireland's really starts!!! Cheerio chariots!
It was ye olde group of death. Always believed England wouldn't make it through.
Quote from: whitegoodman on October 03, 2015, 11:08:10 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 03, 2015, 10:45:29 PM
Christ it must be painful for English folk watching their team pass the ball out the back division. A local team's 3rds would have more craft. Unbelievably limited.
Its been a really enjoyable RWC so far.
We aren't exactly the harlam globetrotters when it comes to back moves ourselves.
fair enough, a good grounding cannot be underestimated
Australia were excellent tonight with probably the performance of the year. England weren't actually that bad until the Farrell sent off I didn't think but the Aussies were just exceptional and sometimes you just have to hold your hands up.
Reading D'Arcy s article from last week he was pretty much spot on in his analysis of England.
The Aussies though controlled the set piec, dominated the breakdown (is there a stronger word than dominated because it was more than that) and their back play was sublime with Foley giving an exhibition. They are the most impressive team so far it will be interesting to see how they progress!
Quote from: ONeill on October 03, 2015, 11:18:16 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 03, 2015, 11:01:52 PM
It's mad that Englands world cup is over before Ireland's really starts!!! Cheerio chariots!
It was ye olde group of death. Always believed England wouldn't make it through.
True but they went out very feebly in many ways.
Unless Australia prove to be by far the best in the competition.
Also who picks MOTM?? Launchbury???
I don't get it! Gorgodze got it for Georgia as well yesterday only playing 60mins there have been more than a few dodgy ones.
The Romania man had a big game and he was my man of the match too, great player, i seen he plays with Toulon, no suprise. Foley should been man of the match the night. South Africa and Australia have kicked into gear and will make the semi, the all-blacks are looking slack at the minute but i expect them to build up ahead of steam to the final and take South Africa in the final.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 04, 2015, 12:23:30 AM
The Romania man had a big game and he was my man of the match too, great player, i seen he plays with Toulon, no suprise. Foley should been man of the match the night. South Africa and Australia have kicked into gear and will make the semi, the all-blacks are looking slack at the minute but i expect them to build up ahead of steam to the final and take South Africa in the final.
The haka is great and all that but I love seeing the all blacks knocked on their arses, same goes with the aussies because of the compromise thing ( in part ) feck it, I just dont like to see either doing well, as long as they are not playing the Anglish or the French, then they are fine winning by me.
Only seen highlights but the Aussies looked super, that 2nd try was feckin unreal, although where the English defence a bit naive to be caught like that?
This is what I love about rugby. As England crawled back into the game, I was relishing the thought of Australia being humiliated. In the end, it was great to see England humiliated. Win-win!
David Pocock #mancrush
Australia were excellent last night . England played ok in second half but were not good enough.
Awfull stuff so far so many unforced errors against a terrible italian team. Only hoping that the italians will be out of puff after 60 mins
How can anyone say we've a chance in this tournament. We are shockingly bad
Jesus we're far from slick but a wake up call does no harm after handing out a couple of hammerings and thinkin we're great! Beat France and we top the group so the result is all that matters here!
At current rate we'll be lucky ton win this game never mind beat france.
Yep. Italy deserve to be winning.
Hard to see past a Southern Hemisphere winner.
Sexton when under pressure is a poor place kicker, the one at the end which we needed to cover our asses, he misses.
True worth or just a bad performance on the day? Will find out for sure against France.
Normally any win against italy is a good result but as i said earlier this italian team are very limited. So many basic mistakes and so many daft penalties. A wake up call can be a good thing but that was brutal. Play like that again in this tournament and we will be battered
Great to see how respectful of referees Paul O'Connell is.
3 wins from 3 qualification and a kick up the arse on the eve of the France match. Happy enough with that. France aren't any great shakes, especially on the road
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 04, 2015, 06:46:39 PM
Great to see how respectful of referees Paul O'Connell is.
This thing of Rugby respect for referees is overstated in my opinion. From what I've seen there's plenty of captains willing to have a go. Paulie has always had that in him though. Brian O'Driscoll too, in his early days especially, always came across as an awful whinger.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 04, 2015, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 04, 2015, 06:46:39 PM
Great to see how respectful of referees Paul O'Connell is.
This thing of Rugby respect for referees is overstated in my opinion. From what I've seen there's plenty of captains willing to have a go. Paulie has always had that in him though. Brian O'Driscoll too, in his early days especially, always came across as an awful whinger.
The propagandists will persist with the myth though.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 04, 2015, 07:09:21 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 04, 2015, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 04, 2015, 06:46:39 PM
Great to see how respectful of referees Paul O'Connell is.
This thing of Rugby respect for referees is overstated in my opinion. From what I've seen there's plenty of captains willing to have a go. Paulie has always had that in him though. Brian O'Driscoll too, in his early days especially, always came across as an awful whinger.
The propagandists will persist with the myth though.
It's not myth. On the whole, players have respect for the refs and take the decisions on the chin whether they think they are right or not. The odd man will voice his disapproval from time to time. With the adrenaline pumping, it's bound to happen. Compare this with crowds of soccer players continuously swarming around refs like a squad of big weans
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 04, 2015, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 04, 2015, 06:46:39 PM
Great to see how respectful of referees Paul O'Connell is.
This thing of Rugby respect for referees is overstated in my opinion. From what I've seen there's plenty of captains willing to have a go. Paulie has always had that in him though. Brian O'Driscoll too, in his early days especially, always came across as an awful whinger.
It depends what you compare it to. In comparison to professional soccer and GAA it's like night and day. You'll get the odd dissenting voice as you will in cricket but you won't see them screaming obscenities or swarming the ref. In the main it's very clear in Rugby Union that the man in the middle is the boss.
I'd take that amount of 'abuse' any day of the week!! Its great to see in the main that the referee is allowed and given the respect to referee the game...
QuoteHard to see past a Southern Hemisphere winner.
Presumably you mean hard to see past NZ or Australia given that South Africa are no big shakes? This Northern v Southern Hemisphere bollox is quite annoying. You'd think to hear it there were so many powerhouses of rugby worldwide that it took a global 50/50 divide to tell them apart while in fact there's at max 6 nations capable of lifting the trophy at each RWC.
Play again like that and it will be another QF exit irrespective of whether it NZ or Argentina. Don't think we would have got out of England's group
Quote from: CiKe on October 04, 2015, 08:14:41 PM
Play again like that and it will be another QF exit irrespective of whether it NZ or Argentina. Don't think we would have got out of England's group
Why not? Back to back 6 nations winners, England no great shakes and Wales missing a plethora of starters. I'd say we'd have finished 1st or 2nd in the group. But, we'll never know
Quote from: JoG2 on October 04, 2015, 08:26:53 PM
Quote from: CiKe on October 04, 2015, 08:14:41 PM
Play again like that and it will be another QF exit irrespective of whether it NZ or Argentina. Don't think we would have got out of England's group
Why not? Back to back 6 nations winners, England no great shakes and Wales missing a plethora of starters. I'd say we'd have finished 1st or 2nd in the group. But, we'll never know
A loss today would've been horrendus but they did enough. They aren't aiming to peak on 4 Oct v Italy, they are looking at the France game onwards, and even if they lose the France game they are looking to give the QF both barrels regardless of who its against.
Probably won't win the competition but have one huge performance in them and no point blowing the splodge today. Notice how they aren't being widely touted as possible winners, that'll suit them nicely.
I don't know if they have 3 massive performances in them (QF/SF/F) but I always have faith in Ireland teams entering the international arena as strange things have been known to happen, and the supporters tend to be a factor on those special occasions, with it being in England we can at least dare to dream.
Great to see the 'Supporters' out in force after an average performance. All of a sudden we haven't a chance and we were overhyped to begin with!!! Typical.
We were no great shakes today but a wins a win against Italy's most spirited performance for a long time. New Zealand, SA, Australia have all struggled at times. Along with that as has been said we aren't due to peak yet so Id imagine there are a lot of strike plays, tactics etc. That are yet to be unveiled. There's a lot of rugby to be played at least 2 but hopefully 3 games.
Quote from: StGallsGAA on October 04, 2015, 07:48:24 PM
QuoteHard to see past a Southern Hemisphere winner.
Presumably you mean hard to see past NZ or Australia given that South Africa are no big shakes? This Northern v Southern Hemisphere bollox is quite annoying. You'd think to hear it there were so many powerhouses of rugby worldwide that it took a global 50/50 divide to tell them apart while in fact there's at max 6 nations capable of lifting the trophy at each RWC.
I am not discounting South Africa at all. The three southern Hemisphere teams look a good bit better than anything else at the minute. Have a look at the odds in the bookies and pick another team if you disagree, you will get good odds. If Ireland beat France they will probably make semis but they will need to improve a lot to win from there.
Quote from: dferg on October 04, 2015, 09:06:26 PM
Quote from: StGallsGAA on October 04, 2015, 07:48:24 PM
QuoteHard to see past a Southern Hemisphere winner.
Presumably you mean hard to see past NZ or Australia given that South Africa are no big shakes? This Northern v Southern Hemisphere bollox is quite annoying. You'd think to hear it there were so many powerhouses of rugby worldwide that it took a global 50/50 divide to tell them apart while in fact there's at max 6 nations capable of lifting the trophy at each RWC.
I am not discounting South Africa at all. The three southern Hemisphere teams look a good bit better than anything else at the minute. Have a look at the odds in the bookies and pick another team if you disagree, you will get good odds. If Ireland beat France they will probably make semis but they will need to improve a lot to win from there.
South Africa, who were beaten by Japan look a good bit better than the rest? Interesting
By the way, there's more than 3 southern hemisphere nations
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2015, 07:47:10 PM
I'd take that amount of 'abuse' any day of the week!! Its great to see in the main that the referee is allowed and given the respect to referee the game...
Owen Farrell called the referee "sir" last night. Common occurrence for you? ;D
Quote from: JoG2 on October 04, 2015, 09:22:25 PM
Quote from: dferg on October 04, 2015, 09:06:26 PM
Quote from: StGallsGAA on October 04, 2015, 07:48:24 PM
QuoteHard to see past a Southern Hemisphere winner.
Presumably you mean hard to see past NZ or Australia given that South Africa are no big shakes? This Northern v Southern Hemisphere bollox is quite annoying. You'd think to hear it there were so many powerhouses of rugby worldwide that it took a global 50/50 divide to tell them apart while in fact there's at max 6 nations capable of lifting the trophy at each RWC.
I am not discounting South Africa at all. The three southern Hemisphere teams look a good bit better than anything else at the minute. Have a look at the odds in the bookies and pick another team if you disagree, you will get good odds. If Ireland beat France they will probably make semis but they will need to improve a lot to win from there.
South Africa, who were beaten by Japan look a good bit better than the rest? Interesting
By the way, there's more than 3 southern hemisphere nations
Only 3 in rugby terms.
Yes South Africa who lost to Japan.
Latest Odds
New Zealand 13/10
Australia 16/5
South Africa 8
Ireland 10
France 12
Wales 14
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 04, 2015, 09:32:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2015, 07:47:10 PM
I'd take that amount of 'abuse' any day of the week!! Its great to see in the main that the referee is allowed and given the respect to referee the game...
Owen Farrell called the referee "sir" last night. Common occurrence for you? ;D
In my last job yes.... But if I was refereeing travellers.. They always say sir
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 04, 2015, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 04, 2015, 06:46:39 PM
Great to see how respectful of referees Paul O'Connell is.
This thing of Rugby respect for referees is overstated in my opinion. From what I've seen there's plenty of captains willing to have a go. Paulie has always had that in him though. Brian O'Driscoll too, in his early days especially, always came across as an awful whinger.
That's bollocks. 'Have a go' might be 4-5 words. Be interesting to see this 'having a go' a refs.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 04, 2015, 09:22:25 PM
South Africa, who were beaten by Japan look a good bit better than the rest? Interesting.
France lost to Tonga four years ago and only missed out on winning the whole thing because of a dodgy referee.
The Boks are improving and very much still a threat in this tournament.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 04, 2015, 09:32:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2015, 07:47:10 PM
I'd take that amount of 'abuse' any day of the week!! Its great to see in the main that the referee is allowed and given the respect to referee the game...
Owen Farrell called the referee "sir" last night. Common occurrence for you? ;D
Probably only in the context that 'you sir are 2 ends of a bollix!!' 😜
Surely there is a better centre in Ireland than Keith Earls?
Sergio Parisse made a huge difference for Italy. I was thinking of the nearly match against NZ in Dublin when Sexton fluffed those 2 kicks. He has a problem with the pressure when the matches are tight and 'beyond 6 nations'. I hope that Schmidt has something up his sleeve for France cos it doesn't look at all good based on yesterday's performance.
Quote from: ONeill on October 05, 2015, 12:35:37 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 04, 2015, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 04, 2015, 06:46:39 PM
Great to see how respectful of referees Paul O'Connell is.
This thing of Rugby respect for referees is overstated in my opinion. From what I've seen there's plenty of captains willing to have a go. Paulie has always had that in him though. Brian O'Driscoll too, in his early days especially, always came across as an awful whinger.
That's bollocks. 'Have a go' might be 4-5 words. Be interesting to see this 'having a go' a refs.
It's not bollocks. I'm not saying that they chase referees around the pitch like lunatics, but there is this notion that there is unquestioning respect and deference to referees in rugby, and that is not what I have observed on many occasions. Captains, and other players, are not a bit afraid to question or disagree quite strongly with referee's decisions. Just last Friday night in Thomond Park a penalty was brought up 10 metres because of backchat by Munster after giving away a penalty.
If you watch Alain Roland's documentary on Setanta, he refers to it. Pat Lam was suspended or fined for comments he made about a ref last year.
I've been going to Thomond Park since 2001, and I've seen it and I've seen it on the increase as well. English teams are notorious for it, the open armed pleading their case and disagreeing with the ref. Paul O'Connell and Peter O'Mahoney as well.
As I said before, don't put words in my keyboard, and say I'm saying it's similar to soccer and GAA questioning of refs. What I'm saying is this notion that the 'ref is always right' is being eroded in rugby, and it's been happening for at least 5 or 6 years.
Quote from: lickthem on October 05, 2015, 09:03:34 AM
Surely there is a better centre in Ireland than Keith Earls?
BOD and D'Arcy are v hard to replace. At least Earls is scoring tries.
Quite a flat performance yesterday. Conor Murray was not his usual self with some wayward kicking. Ireland needed that however. A good test physically ahead of the French game.
Earls, Bowe and Henderson the pick of Irish players for me.
Yesterday was Italy's cup final.
It will focus Ireland for the French.
I don't think Earls is an international centre, in the new version of the game. He is just not a strong enough tackler in the days when you see the likes of Bastaraud running at you like a train. If Earls is going to play the bigger games, it has to be on the wing, and I'm not sure he's one of the best two wings Ireland have. He's got a knack for tries alright, but it does seem slightly wrong that Earls has more tries than B O'D at world cups, and is the Irish record world cup try scorer.
I thought O'Mahoney was excellent until his brain fart. I thought Heaslip was average. Henderson was great, O'Connell mixed the good with the bad. The Murray/Sexton axis will be grand, but Ireland still box kick too often for my liking. I'm not sure they'll get the return on investment from those kicks against the top teams.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2015, 09:29:05 AM
I don't think Earls is an international centre, in the new version of the game. He is just not a strong enough tackler in the days when you see the likes of Bastaraud running at you like a train. If Earls is going to play the bigger games, it has to be on the wing, and I'm not sure he's one of the best two wings Ireland have. He's got a knack for tries alright, but it does seem slightly wrong that Earls has more tries than B O'D at world cups, and is the Irish record world cup try scorer.
I thought O'Mahoney was excellent until his brain fart. I thought Heaslip was average. Henderson was great, O'Connell mixed the good with the bad. The Murray/Sexton axis will be grand, but Ireland still box kick too often for my liking. I'm not sure they'll get the return on investment from those kicks against the top teams.
In total agreement with that, god it was so obvious after a while and as pointed out by the commentators yesterday, the over reliance on it cost us a great try opportunity, plus the Italians had worked out how to cope with it well.
If Schmitt is keeping all these great moves up his sleeve, then he'd better ensure the Irish have them ready to go for next Sunday as the French backs will eat up those kicks and return with interest!
The Aussies were very impressive on Saturday evening. The try they got in the first half with the wing coming in and one-twoing with Foley totally bamboozled the English defence. A wing running at full tilt at a second row is always going to cause problems and Cheika seemed to have done his homework on how England line out their defence. In all fairness England had some good breaks, and when Ford came on, they looked like they might get back into it (for a while), but the Wallabies had enough to spare and with Farrells sin binning, Burgess should have went as well in the same play for a high tackle, the war was over.
Quote from: gallsman on October 05, 2015, 06:11:03 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 04, 2015, 09:22:25 PM
South Africa, who were beaten by Japan look a good bit better than the rest? Interesting.
France lost to Tonga four years ago and only missed out on winning the whole thing because of a dodgy referee.
The Boks are improving and very much still a threat in this tournament.
dferg (who insists there's only 3 southern hemisphere teams in the RWC) reckons the Springboks look a good bit better than the rest. I'm in no shape or form discounting them, but getting beat by Japan and beating current wooden spoon holders Scotland doesn't really back up his claim at this juncture of the tournament
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2015, 09:19:21 AM
If you watch Alain Roland's documentary on Setanta, he refers to it. Pat Lam was suspended or fined for comments he made about a ref last year.
That would be the Alain Rolland who was utterly slandered for making the correct decision in sending Sam Warburton off in the 2011 World Cup semi-final. It seems acceptable in rugby circles to make accusations that would make Jose Mourinho blush, e.g. Rolland was biased in favour of France because his dad is French.
Was at the game yesterday and there was 3 flags on show, The Italian flag, the Tricolour and the Ulster Flag ( The Yellow with the Red Hand) . Is this ulster flag always there for the rugby, never noticed it myself.
Quote from: ludermor on October 05, 2015, 09:53:06 AM
Was at the game yesterday and there was 3 flags on show, The Italian flag, the Tricolour and the Ulster Flag ( The Yellow with the Red Hand) . Is this ulster flag always there for the rugby, never noticed it myself.
Yep. As long as I've been going to games.
I noticed that myself against Romania. Nice for nationalists in the north to have two flags. Ye love yer flegs up there :)
I thought the IRFU had an Irish flag for Rugby, similar to the one the Cricket lads have? I thought they only flew the Tricolour at Lansdowne and the other flag everywhere else.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 05, 2015, 09:43:53 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 05, 2015, 06:11:03 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 04, 2015, 09:22:25 PM
South Africa, who were beaten by Japan look a good bit better than the rest? Interesting.
France lost to Tonga four years ago and only missed out on winning the whole thing because of a dodgy referee.
The Boks are improving and very much still a threat in this tournament.
dferg (who insists there's only 3 southern hemisphere teams in the RWC) reckons the Springboks look a good bit better than the rest. I'm in no shape or form discounting them, but getting beat by Japan and beating current wooden spoon holders Scotland doesn't really back up his claim at this juncture of the tournament
Everyone knows there is more than 3 Southern Hemisphere teams, you are just being pedantic!
I have no idea why they lost to Japan but as someone else says France also lost against Tonga in 2011. They beat Scotland comfortably who beat Japan 45-10. I think they will be hard to beat in the knock-out round.
call me an optimist but i think yesterdays result is excellent.
it gives us the kick up the arse we need heading into the most crucial game of our world cup. also, Italy was always a potential banana skin and the players would have known that. these games that we should win handy but might be up against it for 60 minutes etc, that affects the mentality of the players going into a game like that.
Henshaw showed flashes of what he can do and i think he needed that game under his belt before the france game. Henderson is a beast! Peter O'Mahony was also very good apart from, as someone else put it so well, that "brain fart"! ;D
we will be refocused and ready for the french now after 2 handy first games and the Italian job!
plus, its great that a few papers are writing us off now all of a sudden. stick that shit on the dressing room wall, always a great motivator!
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 05, 2015, 10:40:01 AM
call me an optimist but i think yesterdays result is excellent.
it gives us the kick up the arse we need heading into the most crucial game of our world cup. also, Italy was always a potential banana skin and the players would have known that. these games that we should win handy but might be up against it for 60 minutes etc, that affects the mentality of the players going into a game like that.
Henshaw showed flashes of what he can do and i think he needed that game under his belt before the france game. Henderson is a beast! Peter O'Mahony was also very good apart from, as someone else put it so well, that "brain fart"! ;D
we will be refocused and ready for the french now after 2 handy first games and the Italian job!
plus, its great that a few papers are writing us off now all of a sudden. stick that shit on the dressing room wall, always a great motivator!
Yeah you could be right. A lot depends on them beating France. If they lose against France they will get New Zealand in the quarter final. Which would mean 3 big games in a row to win it. If they win the group they will get Argentina. Win that they will have a crowd of 80000 mostly supporting Ireland in the semi final, that must be worth a few points. If it's p1ssing down the Up en Under/Box Kick tactic might not be as bad as it looked yesterday.
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 05, 2015, 10:40:01 AM
call me an optimist but i think yesterdays result is excellent.
it gives us the kick up the arse we need heading into the most crucial game of our world cup. also, Italy was always a potential banana skin and the players would have known that. these games that we should win handy but might be up against it for 60 minutes etc, that affects the mentality of the players going into a game like that.
Henshaw showed flashes of what he can do and i think he needed that game under his belt before the france game. Henderson is a beast! Peter O'Mahony was also very good apart from, as someone else put it so well, that "brain fart"! ;D
we will be refocused and ready for the french now after 2 handy first games and the Italian job!
plus, its great that a few papers are writing us off now all of a sudden. stick that shit on the dressing room wall, always a great motivator!
The decision to kick for the corner rather than take the 3 points was interesting. The Italian pack were well on top and zero points ensued.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2015, 09:29:05 AM
I don't think Earls is an international centre, in the new version of the game. He is just not a strong enough tackler in the days when you see the likes of Bastaraud running at you like a train. If Earls is going to play the bigger games, it has to be on the wing, and I'm not sure he's one of the best two wings Ireland have. He's got a knack for tries alright, but it does seem slightly wrong that Earls has more tries than B O'D at world cups, and is the Irish record world cup try scorer.
I thought O'Mahoney was excellent until his brain fart. I thought Heaslip was average. Henderson was great, O'Connell mixed the good with the bad. The Murray/Sexton axis will be grand, but Ireland still box kick too often for my liking. I'm not sure they'll get the return on investment from those kicks against the top teams.
Earls was lucky but BOD will always be remembered for what he did.
Hopefully he'll get some more at the weekend.
So far at this world cup all the contenders have had a bad game. Just look at the all blacks against Georgia the other evening.
We will beat France and then have a tough 3 games ahead of us
Quote from: oisinog on October 05, 2015, 05:07:44 PM
So far at this world cup all the contenders have had a bad game. Just look at the all blacks against Georgia the other evening.
We will beat France and then have a tough 3 games ahead of us
Exactly ... both England and Australia struggled for long periods against the Fijians and now Aus are beginning to look like favourites!!
England panel all set for the quarter finals.
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12088415_10206884551785049_6874186539338196439_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=27ca2f3c34ddbcbc59e31507818ed976&oe=569A3900)
Quote from: deiseach on October 05, 2015, 09:44:55 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2015, 09:19:21 AM
If you watch Alain Roland's documentary on Setanta, he refers to it. Pat Lam was suspended or fined for comments he made about a ref last year.
That would be the Alain Rolland who was utterly slandered for making the correct decision in sending Sam Warburton off in the 2011 World Cup semi-final. It seems acceptable in rugby circles to make accusations that would make Jose Mourinho blush, e.g. Rolland was biased in favour of France because his dad is French.
I'd say in rugby, re dissent on the pitch, the bar of tolerance is relatively low.
When O'Connell had that lengthy explanatory discussion with the ref while the clock was ticking away after the last penalty was awarded to Ireland, was he doing so on the one minute time allotted for the penalty?
The tournament is very open this year. No outstanding team and some great performances from the Tier 2 nations
Warren Gatland made a very good point after Englands early exit, i dont have the exact quote but he basically said there should have been no group of hell, it wouldnt happen in football. And hes right. He also said the draw for the pools was made 3 years ago! That surely needs to be looked at for the next world cup. It doesnt make sense to have teams like England, Wales and Australia in the same group, even 3 years ago it made no sense!
The football set up isnt exactly perfect either but it makes more sense than that!
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2015, 09:05:07 PM
The tournament is very open this year. No outstanding team and some great performances from the Tier 2 nations
New zealand, australia and south africa and a n other will be the 4 semi finalists so not really that open. The southern hemisphere teams are moving up a gear at this stage.
Quote from: lenny on October 05, 2015, 09:48:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2015, 09:05:07 PM
The tournament is very open this year. No outstanding team and some great performances from the Tier 2 nations
New zealand, australia and south africa and a n other will be the 4 semi finalists so not really that open. The southern hemisphere teams are moving up a gear at this stage.
If NZ, Australia and the Springboks all get to the semi final stage, it will only be the 2nd time this has happened in World Cup history. They'll be a big upset or 2 before then I reckon .
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 05, 2015, 09:17:30 PM
Warren Gatland made a very good point after Englands early exit, i dont have the exact quote but he basically said there should have been no group of hell, it wouldnt happen in football. And hes right. He also said the draw for the pools was made 3 years ago! That surely needs to be looked at for the next world cup. It doesnt make sense to have teams like England, Wales and Australia in the same group, even 3 years ago it made no sense!
The football set up isnt exactly perfect either but it makes more sense than that!
So be it that there's a group of hell, its a World Cup what do people expect?
Or would you prefer something like the Rugby League World Cup, two good games in the whole competition with the groups a complete joke.
As a neutral the group of hell is a great thing, I would rather watch this high end high stakes sport than Aus v the likes of Canada or whoever on Saturday night, in fact I wouldn't even tune into that.
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 05, 2015, 09:17:30 PM
Warren Gatland made a very good point after Englands early exit, i dont have the exact quote but he basically said there should have been no group of hell, it wouldnt happen in football. And hes right. He also said the draw for the pools was made 3 years ago! That surely needs to be looked at for the next world cup. It doesnt make sense to have teams like England, Wales and Australia in the same group, even 3 years ago it made no sense!
The football set up isnt exactly perfect either but it makes more sense than that!
There are 9 decent teams - the big 4 from the Southern hemisphere incl Argentina and 5 of the 6 nations to divide between 4 pools so one of them has to have 3 ... England Wales and Oz got chosen and that's it
Fair enough, i guess ye know better than Gatland!!
i always thought, to see the best rugby you need the best teams at the business end. Swapping England or Wales with Scotland for example would be a fairer set up in the pools when it comes to seeding.
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 05, 2015, 09:17:30 PM
Warren Gatland made a very good point after Englands early exit, i dont have the exact quote but he basically said there should have been no group of hell, it wouldnt happen in football. And hes right. He also said the draw for the pools was made 3 years ago! That surely needs to be looked at for the next world cup. It doesnt make sense to have teams like England, Wales and Australia in the same group, even 3 years ago it made no sense!
The football set up isnt exactly perfect either but it makes more sense than that!
The problem with the system is when the draw was made in Dec 2012 Samoa were ranked 7 in the world with Argentina in 8, Wales in 9 and Scotland in 10. If the draw was 1 week before the WC Group 1 would have 4 teams from the top ten, Aus, Eng, Wales and Fiji . Where SA's group only has one other, Scotland in 9. Samoa are 15th behind Japan 12th.
.Bit crazy.
Seeding for each group for the 2015 World Cup were based on their respective IRB Rankings. The draw, hosted by Will Greenwood, was conducted on 3 December 2012 in London, and used the World Rankings as of that day, just after the 2012 end-of-year rugby union internationals, which finished on 1 December 2012.[33] The 12 automatic qualifiers from 2011, were allocated to their respective bands based on their rankings;
Band 1, made up of the top 4 automatic qualifiers, (1–4)
Band 2, made up of the next 4 automatic qualifiers, (5–8)
Band 3, made up of the next 4 automatic qualifiers (9–12)
The remaining 8 qualifying places were allocated to Bands 4 and 5, based on previous World Cup playing strength;
Band 4, made up of Oceania 1, Europe 1, Asia 1 and Americas 1
Band 5, made up of Africa 1, Europe 2, Americas 2 and play-off winner
This meant the 20 teams, qualified and qualifiers, were seeded thus:
Pot 1
New Zealand (1)
South Africa (2)
Australia (3)
France (4)
Pot 2
England (5)
Ireland (6)
Samoa (7)
Argentina 8
Pot 3
Wales (9)
Italy (10)
Tonga (11)
Scotland (12)
Pot 4
Canada (Americas 1)
Japan (Asia 1)
Georgia (Europe 1)
Fiji (Oceania 1)
Pot 5
Namibia (Africa 1)
United States (Americas 2)
Romania (Europe 2)
Uruguay (Repechage)
The draw saw a representative randomly draw a ball from a pot, the first drawn ball goes to Pool A, the second Pool B, the third Pool C and the fourth Pool D. The draw began with Pot 5, drawn by All Blacks captain Richie McCaw, followed by Pot 4, drawn by RWC 2015 Ambassador Maggie Alphonsi, then Pot 3, drawn by Mayor of London Boris Johnson, Pot 2, drawn by the then Chief Executive for RWC 2015 Debbie Jevans, and finally Pot 1, drawn by IRB chairman Bernard Lapasset.
I presume Japan are going to be top seeds at the next World Cup. Or do some people think they should be dumped into the third or fourth tier lest, God forbid, three of the big guns find themselves scrapping it out for two places again?
Why would Japan be top seeds at the next world cup? At the moment I think they are 10th?
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 06, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Why would Japan be top seeds at the next world cup? At the moment I think they are 10th?
I 'presume' they will be as hosts. Could be wrong, of course.
Sorry, I completely forgot about that!
The group of hell can all be blamed on Wales.
Autumn Internationals 2012.
The Wallabies was an extra fixture created by the Welsh Rugby Union for financial gain that fell outside the IRB's autumn international window.
If Wales had not played that match they would have finished in seventh with Samoa (eighth) and Argentina (ninth) and avoided having to face England or Australia.
They knew they must avoid defeat against the Wallabies with defeat seeing them slip to ninth place as they lost ranking points.
But that is exactly what happened when Kurtley Beale scored a heartbreaking try with the final move of the match to consign Wales to defeat and see them ranked alongside Italy, Tonga and Scotland in tier three of the seedings.
Two days later the pool draw was made on December 3 and the damage was done.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-wales-end-up-same-10085793
Quote from: Estimator on October 06, 2015, 10:45:05 AM
The group of hell can all be blamed on Wales.
Autumn Internationals 2012.
The Wallabies was an extra fixture created by the Welsh Rugby Union for financial gain that fell outside the IRB's autumn international window.
If Wales had not played that match they would have finished in seventh with Samoa (eighth) and Argentina (ninth) and avoided having to face England or Australia.
They knew they must avoid defeat against the Wallabies with defeat seeing them slip to ninth place as they lost ranking points.
But that is exactly what happened when Kurtley Beale scored a heartbreaking try with the final move of the match to consign Wales to defeat and see them ranked alongside Italy, Tonga and Scotland in tier three of the seedings.
Two days later the pool draw was made on December 3 and the damage was done.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-wales-end-up-same-10085793
I think you will find it's called the "Group of Death". You need to pay more attention.
A 'Group of Hell' would be one in which 15 Mike Browns managed by Warren Gatland and eulogised by Brian Moore were the winners.
Quote from: deiseach on October 06, 2015, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 06, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Why would Japan be top seeds at the next world cup? At the moment I think they are 10th?
I 'presume' they will be as hosts. Could be wrong, of course.
Don't think its like soccer lads. Cant see Japan getting a top seed.
Wales were top seeds as hosts in 1999 when their standing hardly merited the honour. They hadn't finished ahead of England in the Five Nations since 1994 and England had reached the semi-finals in 1995 - you may recall that Lomu chap using Mike Catt as a doormat - yet the English were second seeds. Still, I can see Japan being told to take their place in the cheap seats. Bad enough that the Frogs have to occasionally be accommodated at the top table without going really crazy.
Anyone been to Cardiff for a game? Any pubs to recommend?
Quote from: deiseach on October 06, 2015, 11:44:00 AM
Wales were top seeds as hosts in 1999 when their standing hardly merited the honour. They hadn't finished ahead of England in the Five Nations since 1994 and England had reached the semi-finals in 1995 - you may recall that Lomu chap using Mike Catt as a doormat - yet the English were second seeds. Still, I can see Japan being told to take their place in the cheap seats. Bad enough that the Frogs have to occasionally be accommodated at the top table without going really crazy.
How come England weren't top seeds this time then?
Well, that torpedoes my entire argument. England were not top seeds this time round. I stand corrected.
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 05, 2015, 09:17:30 PM
Warren Gatland made a very good point after Englands early exit, i dont have the exact quote but he basically said there should have been no group of hell, it wouldnt happen in football. And hes right. He also said the draw for the pools was made 3 years ago! That surely needs to be looked at for the next world cup. It doesnt make sense to have teams like England, Wales and Australia in the same group, even 3 years ago it made no sense!
The football set up isnt exactly perfect either but it makes more sense than that!
I didn't read where Gatland said it would never happen in football. Are you sure that he made that comment?
It would be a very ignorant comparison to make because most every football finals has at least one group of death. At WC2014 it was Costa Rica, Italy and Uruguay
;D
Quote from: deiseach on October 06, 2015, 06:45:59 PM
Well, that torpedoes my entire argument. England were not top seeds this time round. I stand corrected.
Just think, all those f*ckers that are ignoring you missed the opportunity to correct you. :D
Another top article from Gordon D'Arcy
Being a recently retired player I know how everyone in the Ireland squad will be feeling. As Sunday comes closer public fears might be growing about France but not the lads.
They are thinking: 'this is brilliant. This is why we get out of bed. This is why we train. All that mind-numbing mental preparation just to have half a percentage over our opponents feels worth it. This is why we have shoulder or knee surgery, this is why we go through all that horrible rehab and those lonely hours in the dead zone. For this'. It's an unbelievable feeling, building up to a World Cup game of such magnitude.
Jared Payne taking part in Ireland's squad training session at Celtic Manor Resort, Newport, Wales. Dan Sheridan/InphoJared Payne and Rob Kearney set to return for Ireland
I will hold the memory of that week before beating Australia in Auckland four years ago with me until my dying day. We almost didn't know how to deal with ourselves, such was the desire to get out there.
Now, with that experience spread across so many in the squad, they will be thinking, 'okay, we can win this game, we can top this group, we can go further but we must ensure we are absolutely pumped come 4.45pm on Sunday'. So they will be.
I don't play poker much but I've a real sense that Ireland have been letting the blinds rise and rise without so much as a twitch. We have been a very predictable rugby team for some time now.
This is all our opponents are seeing; it's from this evidence that they are learning tell-tale signs to know when Ireland are about to play a big hand. And then we do the complete opposite.
That I feel is the ultimate bluff by Joe Schmidt and Johnny Sexton.
There is value in glancing back to Twickenham before moving on to Ireland versus France as it highlights the magic trick unfurled by Michael Cheika's Wallabies.
Planned move
Like all magic, Bernard Foley's intriguing second try happened because English focus was trained elsewhere and some rapid sleight of hand made it seem other worldly. It was definitely a planned move designed to isolate the far side ruck defender, which in that case was Joe Launchbury.
It came from forward momentum too. Australia won their lineout 30 metres out and David Pocock carried infield, right to left. Another carry around the corner by Rob Simmons gave the English a familiar picture so they stacked their defence on the shorter left side. That's where their pre-game analysis told them Australia would be going next.
A trend at the moment is for forwards to get the ball off the nine and play it out the back to the ten. That second line being the real running threat. England constantly do it and should have beaten Wales after creating a try for Jonny May off their second wave's angled assault.
But Australia flipped this form of attack on its head. Go to 34.25 on the clock, when Will Genia picks up the ball, there are three Australian forwards fixing seven English defenders with Foley and Kurtley Beale out the back.
But the two Waratahs, and that's important, change the point of attack at the last possible millisecond which forces all the Englishmen to turn backwards and go behind the ruck. Which leaves them stranded.
Launchbury can't get back through the ruck (and Kane Douglas) so he's left a hole for Beale.
This creates two two-on-one scenarios. The first on Ben Youngs (Foley inside to Beale), the second on Mike Brown after Beale flies past Launchbury and returns the favour to Foley.
Brilliant poker-faced rugby.
Show a team a play enough times until someone over folds. If even one of those England defenders, Chris Robshaw, had stayed on the other side of the ruck with Launchbury they could have defended it.
At 17-3 that was the game's major hand played.
That's rugby. Get someone to bet against you when they think you have nothing then stick them with a flush. Use their hours of painstaking analysis against them.
Exceptionally enjoyable
Ireland beat Italy, again, without showing their hand, which I think is important. Nothing concerned me from my day out at Olympic Park or when I looked at the game again at home. I felt we were going to win even if we went behind.
It was my first time going to a game as a fan. It was exceptionally enjoyable because I am in a good place mentally. The players who are there are should be there.
I did find the Jared Payne criticism so odd after Romania that I looked up the World Cup stats, as I thought he had carried a lot of ball, and sure enough he was in the top metres after contact and the number of carries after two games. The support for Jared is no surprise, he's a real players' player.
Anyway, France. I always loved playing them. That's still the Irish mentality.
One of the nicest things that ever happened to me was a gift I received the day after we beat them in 2009. Joanne Byrne had got the picture of my try celebration, got it printed, framed with a note saying: 'Congratulations, welcome back'.
It's the only rugby picture I have in my house. Big, dumb happy head on me.
Welcome back from the dead zone after a year-long injury. Winning the Grand Slam a few weeks later was the pinnacle but this will always stay with me because it seemed like I was finished. What was very nearly taken away was given back. Not many people get that feeling in life, never mind sport. I definitely enjoyed my rugby from there on out.
It happened against Italy during the 2008 Six Nations. Just a swinging arm tackle. I've done it loads of times before and since but this time I shattered my right arm like glass. Broken in eight places. I do have a theory on how it happened though. I had played three-and- a-half seasons of rugby without a break. Every minute of almost every game.
Everyone is talking about the Welsh boys and how unlucky they are with joint injuries. Now, this is just my opinion having played the game for my entire adolescent and adult life, it is not backed up by science; but I believe your body can only take so much punishment and for a certain amount of time before breaking down.
The Welsh, in preparation for this World Cup, and Warren Gatland has said it, pushed their players to breaking point. Well, now they are breaking. Losing 16 per cent of their starting XV can't be a coincidence. If it is then they are truly cursed.
We first went to Spala in Poland when Gatty was Ireland coach and Eddie O'Sullivan kept it going for a while. It's gruelling, hard work but the problem with it was the horrific mental punishment as well.
Usually you can take one or the other – physical pain then mentally stretching yourself on the field – but that isolated sports centre in a forest was a combination of both.
Wales say they are seeing the benefits but at what cost?
When I was at my most fatigued I went into an innocuous tackle, did what I always did, nothing dramatic, yet needed three operations and two bone grafts before, beyond all hope, it began to knit back together.
In those dark months I realised the value of having a genuine friend as your rugby agent. Fintan Drury has always been someone I trust, a confidant. We sat down and Fintan simply said "If the surgeon says he is retiring you, what's the worst that can happen?" "I'll never play rugby again. "Okay, and then?"
" Eh, I'll go back to college."
"'Great, and then..."
We formulated a plan for the rest of my life. I instantly felt better, stronger. Maybe it was one of the reasons my arm healed.
Shattered arm
My first game back was against Ulster. Every returning injured player will tell you there is a moment when they do something without thinking about the injury and realise it is healed.
My arm was tested on Stephen Ferris. I was on the wing and Fez got up a head of steam so I ran in, chopped him down and got straight on the ball. Hopped up and realised I was not in pain after tackling Stephen Ferris with a previously shattered arm.
I remember ringing Deccie Kidney to ask for one more game, for Lansdowne, before the French match and he said no problem, on one condition: you are only out there to practice playing 12. I don't want to read the match report about how you were carrying balls left, right and centre.
I got on against France at Croke Park on the hour mark. Within five minutes I stepped into first receiver, leaned to go outside Florian Fritz but stepped inside and twisted out of Thierry Dusautoir's tackle before carrying Benjamin Kayser over the line with the old leg drive.
It was a life changing experience. The lads mobbed me because they understood what their team-mate had been through, where he had to climb from to wear a green jersey again.
Yeah, I always liked playing France. My first Six Nations game was in Paris in 2004. Before walking out at Stade de France, Mal O'Kelly warned me, "It's like being hit on the back of the head by a baseball bat of noise, Darce".
When I heard what Mal was talking about all I was thinking was: 'This Is Brilliant. I can't wait to get my hands on the ball.' Then it was over. It was like playing schoolboys again for the first time in Donnybrook. Your relevant time disappears. It feels like 15 not 100 minutes.
This Ireland team has experienced all of this. Learned all these lessons.
France are quite well balanced in midfield with the skills of Freddie Michalak, the smooth running of Wesley Fofana and their sledgehammer. Bastareaud looks in great shape. You can always tell from the jerseys.
Game time
He is here to play but I still think he can be completely shut down. One of the things about Robbie Henshaw is he isn't giving up any inches to him and about two less stone that I was. Even when I made perfect entry into a tackle on Mathieu I didn't always slow him down.
I'm sure Robbie would like more game time but he looked strong in the contact against Italy. That was enough for me.
Bastareaud is the type of player you must hit on suspicion. Not in the manner Owen Farrell got sin-binned, and Sam Burgess should have, last Saturday. You do it without selling yourself and your team-mates up the river. If everybody is stepping in after Johnny Sexton the next man has to make sure his shoulder goes in on Bastareaud. He is not a man you want to be reading past the ball because he will free his arms and offload.
Morgan Parra is more of a worry for me. He's definitely a game changer, so different to the other French scrumhalves in that he can come on and take over the kicking. And take over the game.
When you play France you must do so with tempo. Do this and their power game can crumble. Keep them moving and find the mismatches where they least expect it. Now, where do they least expect Ireland to attack from?
That's where the sting will be revealed.
I know we have the players to do it. I can't wait to see the Irish forwards feeding off each other, the backs off Johnny and Jared.
But I don't want them to play the game of their lives – keep that for the World Cup final – but this has to be a game where Ireland hit an eight out of ten. If France do likewise we will get past them and then they become the All Blacks' problem.
The group of death talk is nonsense. Yes the draw should be made nearer the time but because world rugby has about 10 good teams then there will always be a difficult group. Ireland have had it pretty tough over the yesrs. In 95 we had NZ and Wales. In 99 the draw was so fecked up that despite finishing 2nd behind Aus we then had to play Argentina in a playoff for the QF. In 2003 we had Aus and Argentina. In 2007 we had France and Argentina and the last 2 times we have had italy as the 3rd team who on their day can compete with most. So those moaning about the draw need to suck it up.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 07, 2015, 02:28:43 PM
The group of death talk is nonsense. Yes the draw should be made nearer the time but because world rugby has about 10 good teams then there will always be a difficult group. Ireland have had it pretty tough over the yesrs. In 95 we had NZ and Wales. In 99 the draw was so fecked up that despite finishing 2nd behind Aus we then had to play Argentina in a playoff for the QF. In 2003 we had Aus and Argentina. In 2007 we had France and Argentina and the last 2 times we have had italy as the 3rd team who on their day can compete with most. So those moaning about the draw need to suck it up.
I'd disagree with this. Wales, Australia and England have each clearly been among the best 6 (not 10) teams throughout the professional rugby era, along with France, South Africa and New Zealand. Ireland's recent form might also push them among this higher tier, and having any more than two of these sides in one group is extremely unfair, in that at means at least of the next tier of sides, who are clearly not as strong, get a leg-up.
For example, I'd sooner face a full-strength Scotland, Italy or Argentina any day of the week, than face a second-string England side.
- - -
Wales did cause the problem with their shortsighted fixtures. This cannot be made clear enough.
I don't see why people have an issue with this. When the draw was made Wales were ranked 9th in the world!!
That's their own prerogative if they ended up in a group with Australia and England, everyone knew the score!
It was mad to have the draw for the 2015 World Cup in December 2012. But the draw has to be done at some point, and the chances of Wales (or Ireland, if you prefer) slipping out of the top eight at some point in any four-year cycle would be pretty high. I suppose you could average out scores over a number of years, but that would be telling the likes of Fiji, Samoa or Japan not to bother trying to get into the top eight.
Edit: I notice in that article that Estimator posted (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-wales-end-up-same-10085793) that a draw conducted in December 2013 would have had Wales 6th and Argentina 10th in the rankings. New Zealand, Wales and Argentina = group of you-know-what.
Yeah I get all of that but what's the alternative? Make the draw one year before the tournament? Surely you still have a high chance of a so called bigger nation slipping outside the top 8 in that period.
My point is that it was Wales' own fault they ended up in that group and in turn England deserve all they got for not getting out of it.
If it happens to Ireland in the future so be it. If you are good enough you'll get out of your group regardless.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 07, 2015, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 07, 2015, 02:28:43 PM
The group of death talk is nonsense. Yes the draw should be made nearer the time but because world rugby has about 10 good teams then there will always be a difficult group. Ireland have had it pretty tough over the yesrs. In 95 we had NZ and Wales. In 99 the draw was so fecked up that despite finishing 2nd behind Aus we then had to play Argentina in a playoff for the QF. In 2003 we had Aus and Argentina. In 2007 we had France and Argentina and the last 2 times we have had italy as the 3rd team who on their day can compete with most. So those moaning about the draw need to suck it up.
I'd disagree with this. Wales, Australia and England have each clearly been among the best 6 (not 10) teams throughout the professional rugby era, along with France, South Africa and New Zealand. Ireland's recent form might also push them among this higher tier, and having any more than two of these sides in one group is extremely unfair, in that at means at least of the next tier of sides, who are clearly not as strong, get a leg-up.
For example, I'd sooner face a full-strength Scotland, Italy or Argentina any day of the week, than face a second-string England side.
- - -
Wales did cause the problem with their shortsighted fixtures. This cannot be made clear enough.
You are giving Wales way too much respect here. Wales have been up and down like a yo yo one year a grand slam next year fighting for the wooden spoon. The 6 nations records show england, ireland and France on 55, 53 and 52 wins from 80 with wales trailing on 44. The other teams also have much better records against the big 3. Ireland over the last 10 years have an even record against SA and Australia won 7 lost 7 drawn 1. Gatlands record for Wales against the big 3 is something ridiculous like 2 wins in 30
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 07, 2015, 11:54:02 AM
Another top article from Gordon D'Arcy
Being a recently retired player I know how everyone in the Ireland squad will be feeling. As Sunday comes closer public fears might be growing about France but not the lads.
They are thinking: 'this is brilliant. This is why we get out of bed. This is why we train. All that mind-numbing mental preparation just to have half a percentage over our opponents feels worth it. This is why we have shoulder or knee surgery, this is why we go through all that horrible rehab and those lonely hours in the dead zone. For this'. It's an unbelievable feeling, building up to a World Cup game of such magnitude.
Jared Payne taking part in Ireland's squad training session at Celtic Manor Resort, Newport, Wales. Dan Sheridan/InphoJared Payne and Rob Kearney set to return for Ireland
I will hold the memory of that week before beating Australia in Auckland four years ago with me until my dying day. We almost didn't know how to deal with ourselves, such was the desire to get out there.
Now, with that experience spread across so many in the squad, they will be thinking, 'okay, we can win this game, we can top this group, we can go further but we must ensure we are absolutely pumped come 4.45pm on Sunday'. So they will be.
I don't play poker much but I've a real sense that Ireland have been letting the blinds rise and rise without so much as a twitch. We have been a very predictable rugby team for some time now.
This is all our opponents are seeing; it's from this evidence that they are learning tell-tale signs to know when Ireland are about to play a big hand. And then we do the complete opposite.
That I feel is the ultimate bluff by Joe Schmidt and Johnny Sexton.
There is value in glancing back to Twickenham before moving on to Ireland versus France as it highlights the magic trick unfurled by Michael Cheika's Wallabies.
Planned move
Like all magic, Bernard Foley's intriguing second try happened because English focus was trained elsewhere and some rapid sleight of hand made it seem other worldly. It was definitely a planned move designed to isolate the far side ruck defender, which in that case was Joe Launchbury.
It came from forward momentum too. Australia won their lineout 30 metres out and David Pocock carried infield, right to left. Another carry around the corner by Rob Simmons gave the English a familiar picture so they stacked their defence on the shorter left side. That's where their pre-game analysis told them Australia would be going next.
A trend at the moment is for forwards to get the ball off the nine and play it out the back to the ten. That second line being the real running threat. England constantly do it and should have beaten Wales after creating a try for Jonny May off their second wave's angled assault.
But Australia flipped this form of attack on its head. Go to 34.25 on the clock, when Will Genia picks up the ball, there are three Australian forwards fixing seven English defenders with Foley and Kurtley Beale out the back.
But the two Waratahs, and that's important, change the point of attack at the last possible millisecond which forces all the Englishmen to turn backwards and go behind the ruck. Which leaves them stranded.
Launchbury can't get back through the ruck (and Kane Douglas) so he's left a hole for Beale.
This creates two two-on-one scenarios. The first on Ben Youngs (Foley inside to Beale), the second on Mike Brown after Beale flies past Launchbury and returns the favour to Foley.
Brilliant poker-faced rugby.
Show a team a play enough times until someone over folds. If even one of those England defenders, Chris Robshaw, had stayed on the other side of the ruck with Launchbury they could have defended it.
At 17-3 that was the game's major hand played.
That's rugby. Get someone to bet against you when they think you have nothing then stick them with a flush. Use their hours of painstaking analysis against them.
Exceptionally enjoyable
Ireland beat Italy, again, without showing their hand, which I think is important. Nothing concerned me from my day out at Olympic Park or when I looked at the game again at home. I felt we were going to win even if we went behind.
It was my first time going to a game as a fan. It was exceptionally enjoyable because I am in a good place mentally. The players who are there are should be there.
I did find the Jared Payne criticism so odd after Romania that I looked up the World Cup stats, as I thought he had carried a lot of ball, and sure enough he was in the top metres after contact and the number of carries after two games. The support for Jared is no surprise, he's a real players' player.
Anyway, France. I always loved playing them. That's still the Irish mentality.
One of the nicest things that ever happened to me was a gift I received the day after we beat them in 2009. Joanne Byrne had got the picture of my try celebration, got it printed, framed with a note saying: 'Congratulations, welcome back'.
It's the only rugby picture I have in my house. Big, dumb happy head on me.
Welcome back from the dead zone after a year-long injury. Winning the Grand Slam a few weeks later was the pinnacle but this will always stay with me because it seemed like I was finished. What was very nearly taken away was given back. Not many people get that feeling in life, never mind sport. I definitely enjoyed my rugby from there on out.
It happened against Italy during the 2008 Six Nations. Just a swinging arm tackle. I've done it loads of times before and since but this time I shattered my right arm like glass. Broken in eight places. I do have a theory on how it happened though. I had played three-and- a-half seasons of rugby without a break. Every minute of almost every game.
Everyone is talking about the Welsh boys and how unlucky they are with joint injuries. Now, this is just my opinion having played the game for my entire adolescent and adult life, it is not backed up by science; but I believe your body can only take so much punishment and for a certain amount of time before breaking down.
The Welsh, in preparation for this World Cup, and Warren Gatland has said it, pushed their players to breaking point. Well, now they are breaking. Losing 16 per cent of their starting XV can't be a coincidence. If it is then they are truly cursed.
We first went to Spala in Poland when Gatty was Ireland coach and Eddie O'Sullivan kept it going for a while. It's gruelling, hard work but the problem with it was the horrific mental punishment as well.
Usually you can take one or the other – physical pain then mentally stretching yourself on the field – but that isolated sports centre in a forest was a combination of both.
Wales say they are seeing the benefits but at what cost?
When I was at my most fatigued I went into an innocuous tackle, did what I always did, nothing dramatic, yet needed three operations and two bone grafts before, beyond all hope, it began to knit back together.
In those dark months I realised the value of having a genuine friend as your rugby agent. Fintan Drury has always been someone I trust, a confidant. We sat down and Fintan simply said "If the surgeon says he is retiring you, what's the worst that can happen?" "I'll never play rugby again. "Okay, and then?"
" Eh, I'll go back to college."
"'Great, and then..."
We formulated a plan for the rest of my life. I instantly felt better, stronger. Maybe it was one of the reasons my arm healed.
Shattered arm
My first game back was against Ulster. Every returning injured player will tell you there is a moment when they do something without thinking about the injury and realise it is healed.
My arm was tested on Stephen Ferris. I was on the wing and Fez got up a head of steam so I ran in, chopped him down and got straight on the ball. Hopped up and realised I was not in pain after tackling Stephen Ferris with a previously shattered arm.
I remember ringing Deccie Kidney to ask for one more game, for Lansdowne, before the French match and he said no problem, on one condition: you are only out there to practice playing 12. I don't want to read the match report about how you were carrying balls left, right and centre.
I got on against France at Croke Park on the hour mark. Within five minutes I stepped into first receiver, leaned to go outside Florian Fritz but stepped inside and twisted out of Thierry Dusautoir's tackle before carrying Benjamin Kayser over the line with the old leg drive.
It was a life changing experience. The lads mobbed me because they understood what their team-mate had been through, where he had to climb from to wear a green jersey again.
Yeah, I always liked playing France. My first Six Nations game was in Paris in 2004. Before walking out at Stade de France, Mal O'Kelly warned me, "It's like being hit on the back of the head by a baseball bat of noise, Darce".
When I heard what Mal was talking about all I was thinking was: 'This Is Brilliant. I can't wait to get my hands on the ball.' Then it was over. It was like playing schoolboys again for the first time in Donnybrook. Your relevant time disappears. It feels like 15 not 100 minutes.
This Ireland team has experienced all of this. Learned all these lessons.
France are quite well balanced in midfield with the skills of Freddie Michalak, the smooth running of Wesley Fofana and their sledgehammer. Bastareaud looks in great shape. You can always tell from the jerseys.
Game time
He is here to play but I still think he can be completely shut down. One of the things about Robbie Henshaw is he isn't giving up any inches to him and about two less stone that I was. Even when I made perfect entry into a tackle on Mathieu I didn't always slow him down.
I'm sure Robbie would like more game time but he looked strong in the contact against Italy. That was enough for me.
Bastareaud is the type of player you must hit on suspicion. Not in the manner Owen Farrell got sin-binned, and Sam Burgess should have, last Saturday. You do it without selling yourself and your team-mates up the river. If everybody is stepping in after Johnny Sexton the next man has to make sure his shoulder goes in on Bastareaud. He is not a man you want to be reading past the ball because he will free his arms and offload.
Morgan Parra is more of a worry for me. He's definitely a game changer, so different to the other French scrumhalves in that he can come on and take over the kicking. And take over the game.
When you play France you must do so with tempo. Do this and their power game can crumble. Keep them moving and find the mismatches where they least expect it. Now, where do they least expect Ireland to attack from?
That's where the sting will be revealed.
I know we have the players to do it. I can't wait to see the Irish forwards feeding off each other, the backs off Johnny and Jared.
But I don't want them to play the game of their lives – keep that for the World Cup final – but this has to be a game where Ireland hit an eight out of ten. If France do likewise we will get past them and then they become the All Blacks' problem.
As more of casual follower of rugby I couldn't tell you if D'Arcy is talking sense here or not but it sure as hell sounds good!
Wales' recent record against the three heavyweight SH teams is pretty rotten all right. Which makes England's failure to appreciate the value of a draw against them all the more unforgivable.
This Georgia Namibia game is the most exciting game I've seen so far. Great stuff, loads of errors, yellow cards, running rugby and a few tries. Great stuff.
Georgia wouldn't be out of place in a revamped 7 Nations. They'd give anyone a game in Tbilisi.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on October 07, 2015, 10:53:06 PM
Georgia wouldn't be out of place in a revamped 7 Nations. They'd give anyone a game in Tbilisi.
They've been very impressive in this tournament and you'd hope those kind of ideas are being pitched. Gorgodze a bit of a totem for them like Parisse is for Italy.
Quote from: Franko on October 07, 2015, 04:54:23 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 07, 2015, 11:54:02 AM
Another top article from Gordon D'Arcy
As more of casual follower of rugby I couldn't tell you if D'Arcy is talking sense here or not but it sure as hell sounds good!
Intersting read about that 2nd Aussie try, the try looked great but it also looked like England had been sucked in.
Surprised he enjoyed playing France so much considering that "tackle" in 2011
Ed: sorrted ton
Can the next person to reply to the Gordon D'Arcy post not quote the entire article. Thanks in advance :)
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 08, 2015, 07:17:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 07, 2015, 04:54:23 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 07, 2015, 11:54:02 AM
Another top article from Gordon D'Arcy
As more of casual follower of rugby I couldn't tell you if D'Arcy is talking sense here or not but it sure as hell sounds good!
Intersting read about that 2nd Aussie try, the try looked great but it also looked like England had been sucked in.
Surprised he enjoyed playing France so much considering that "tackle" in 2011
Ed: sorrted ton
Door mat comes to mind, similar to the way Jonathan Davies walked over him in the 2011 QF (sorry correction Mike Phillips)
I can see TV suits raising objections to the TMO. There must have been some halves in this tournament that have taken over an hour to play.
Yesterdays was the longest apparently. It was over 60 minutes for the first half. In fairness a good spell of that was because of a penalty advantage that Georgia had and kept electing to scrummage or tap and go rather than kick for 3 points.
Quote from: deiseach on October 08, 2015, 10:02:02 AM
I can see TV suits raising objections to the TMO. There must have been some halves in this tournament that have taken over an hour to play.
The TMO needs be watching the game the full time and when there is a try review it instantly even before the ref asks him to do so, so he is ready for a quick decision. Some of the guys must be asleep during the game. Not only that some even make ridiculous decisons even after viewing it several times. Remeber the Aussie try against us last Autumn. Not only was the final pass forward but the ball wasnt event grounded past the line for a try and yet the TMO still managed to give it!!!!
Gift Grub did a good piss take on the TMOs on 'Radio ROG' ;D
it just might be an epic day on Sunday!... 2 green armies on the march!
interesting decision by Schmidt, if this is true, to put Henderson on the bench against France and start Toner. its probably a very clever move, once we are even within a few points of France at 55/60 minutes, it would be some boost to see Henderson coming on!
Yes strange decision all right. Has Henderson not been one of their better players so far?
IRELAND XV –R Kearney; Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, D Kearney; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Ross; Toner, O'Connell; O'Mahony, O'Brien, Heaslip.
Quote from: angermanagement on October 09, 2015, 10:35:21 AM
Yes strange decision all right. Has Henderson not been one of their better players so far?
IRELAND XV –R Kearney; Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, D Kearney; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Ross; Toner, O'Connell; O'Mahony, O'Brien, Heaslip.
Arguably our best player . . . 2 MOTM performances ( He got it in Italy game but he was our best player v Canada as well).
Sounds very much like this is going to be an attritional game with a lot of kicking so I would think Toner is in there for lineouts and driving mauls with Henderson to make an impact from the bench then after 60 mins. It's an interesting call!!
EDIT: Team naming has been delayed and there are injury worries!!!
the rumour apparently is Jared Payne is not fully fit...waiting on a decision on him?
Team as above except earls in for Payne so he mustn't be fit.
Earls will be smashed if the French run at him.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 09, 2015, 02:51:15 PM
Earls will be smashed if the French run at him.
Would Luke Fitz not have been a smarter option here physically?
JS must be looking to finish the game with his strongest side.
Could JS being thinking about using Big Iain in the back row for the last 20mins of Sunday's match?
Should Rob K need replaced, who is the stand in full back?
Another strange one there. Must be Luke Fitz as cover for full back.
It's hard to believe that some 3 years after the WC draw, Ireland's professional management team has ended up lining out Keith Earls against France's monster midfield, with the king tube himself, Luke Fitzgerald, as cover.
People like this shouldn't be allowed to pick squads. Just teams.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 09, 2015, 04:50:09 PM
It's hard to believe that some 3 years after the WC draw, Ireland's professional management team has ended up lining out Keith Earls against France's monster midfield, with the king tube himself, Luke Fitzgerald, as cover.
People like this shouldn't be allowed to pick squads. Just teams.
Who put 50p in this 'expert'!!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 09, 2015, 04:29:06 PM
Another strange one there. Must be Luke Fitz as cover for full back.
Madigan/Tommy Bowe/Dave Kearney can play there as well. I like Fitz especially as a winger or at 12 or 13 but god I hope he doesn't have to go in at fullback after the horror shows he had there for Ireland and Leinster in 2011!!!!
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 09, 2015, 02:51:15 PM
Earls will be smashed if the French run at him.
No more so than Jared Payne or Luke Fitz. Cave would probably the best defensive option against the French but probably lacks a bit of pace for playing 13 at international level.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 09, 2015, 04:57:49 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 09, 2015, 04:50:09 PM
It's hard to believe that some 3 years after the WC draw, Ireland's professional management team has ended up lining out Keith Earls against France's monster midfield, with the king tube himself, Luke Fitzgerald, as cover.
People like this shouldn't be allowed to pick squads. Just teams.
Who put 50p in this 'expert'!!
I'm no expert. But one of my big bugbears in sport is when soccer managers pick World Cup squads and they fill out the last positions with average utility players instead of horses for courses or potential game winners. For example, your last centre forward at a World Cup shouldn't be a winger-come-forward, it should be someone who has a shown ability to come off the bench and score goals, or else the best header of the ball not already in the squad. The rationale being that if you're calling on your 23rd player, then you've got a heap of injuries and suspensions, and are heading out of the competition anyway.... but if that no.23 can provide a genuine short term alternative from the bench, then he could be the difference in a World Cup bid.
Rugby has to operate on similar principles. And the reality is that starting from this weekend, Ireland will need to play 4 games to win a World Cup, and for at least 3 of those games, putting someone as small as Earls in the midfield is basically an act of surrender along the lines of "attack us right here, this is where we are weak". This is inexcusable. But to then have a plan B of the most uninspiring back of the past decade, to come in as needed. Well that's just horrendous planning.
It's just a pity you weren't available when the job came up a few years ago! If Joe Schmidt deems him good enough to play centre for Ireland then that's good enough for me.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 09, 2015, 05:40:50 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 09, 2015, 04:57:49 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 09, 2015, 04:50:09 PM
It's hard to believe that some 3 years after the WC draw, Ireland's professional management team has ended up lining out Keith Earls against France's monster midfield, with the king tube himself, Luke Fitzgerald, as cover.
People like this shouldn't be allowed to pick squads. Just teams.
Who put 50p in this 'expert'!!
I'm no expert. But one of my big bugbears in sport is when soccer managers pick World Cup squads and they fill out the last positions with average utility players instead of horses for courses or potential game winners. For example, your last centre forward at a World Cup shouldn't be a winger-come-forward, it should be someone who has a shown ability to come off the bench and score goals, or else the best header of the ball not already in the squad. The rationale being that if you're calling on your 23rd player, then you've got a heap of injuries and suspensions, and are heading out of the competition anyway.... but if that no.23 can provide a genuine short term alternative from the bench, then he could be the difference in a World Cup bid.
Rugby has to operate on similar principles. And the reality is that starting from this weekend, Ireland will need to play 4 games to win a World Cup, and for at least 3 of those games, putting someone as small as Earls in the midfield is basically an act of surrender along the lines of "attack us right here, this is where we are weak". This is inexcusable. But to then have a plan B of the most uninspiring back of the past decade, to come in as needed. Well that's just horrendous planning.
He's 2 cm smaller and 2 kilos lighter then Fofana. So I suppose France have no ambition either?
Ireland don't have Basteraud running down the throat of Foffana. I'm not worried about Earls with the ball in hand, except I think sometimes he butchers overlaps because he takes the wrong option, but he can make a line break, and he is a good finisher. I worry about him being able to tackle because I've watched him fall off tackles for several years at Munster, and if he is targetted by a big ball carrier, he will get hurt.
One thing about Payne is he is excellent defensively. Its a big call and could be pivotal but as said before we have to trust Schmidt. He's seeing these lads day in and day out and has proven he knows what he's at.
He'll know the risk and that he'll be slated for it if it backfires. I'll give it a chance.
Also the Henderson thing looks to be the idea of finishing strongly with Reddan in reserve there to speed things up cone the last twenty. Surprised Strauss is in there though Cronin is ideal for the impact game with his explosive carrying ability.
I still think France aren't what they were and we will beat them but the performance will be interesting. Will we go all out or still hold some things back for the QF. Its a big Sunday for Irish sport!!
Just looking at Tonga's Population and it is nearly the same as the population of County Waterford!
Lads England went like for like on the a welsh midfield and look where that got them. Bastareaud now has to think about Earls attacking him on the outside. Big fat Matty is as much a liability as anything else. Henshaw is the man to cut him down when he comes down either channel.
In Schmidt we trust. Cardiff in the morning. Bring it on!!!
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 09, 2015, 08:31:05 PM
Just looking at Tonga's Population and it is nearly the same as the population of County Waterford!
They don't have John Mullane.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 09, 2015, 11:41:09 PM
Lads England went like for like on the a welsh midfield and look where that got them. Bastareaud now has to think about Earls attacking him on the outside. Big fat Matty is as much a liability as anything else. Henshaw is the man to cut him down when he comes down either channel.
In Schmidt we trust. Cardiff in the morning. Bring it on!!!
;D ;D
Its true he is a defo liability in defence.
And I wouldnt be as worried as Earls as the 9/10 channel. If they give him alot of ball and he takes that channel, he could put those guys of their game. Also have to spread the wealth, cant rely on Henshaw for their runners backrow has to share the slog obviously.
Still a head scratcher about Henderson, make no mistake the power France is up there with anyone on the world stage, they just cant seem to get it all together as yet, but they wil,l and it could be Sunday. This is by no means a gimmie, cos we've had their recent number. Henderson would be a much better man than Toner to combat their physicality but maybe Schmidt is going for the kick and setpiece game as someone pointed out. If it is t'will be terrible to watch but who cares if we win it.
Payne ruled out for the rest of the tournament. No replacement confirmed yet.
Quote from: Estimator on October 10, 2015, 11:13:41 AM
Payne ruled out for the rest of the tournament. No replacement confirmed yet.
No coincidence that Walter Cronc is on the first flight over this morning. You heard it here first.
Trimble?
Payne is solid in defense and that will be missed I certainly wont miss his kicking which has been atrocious. Trimble is the cert replacement
how come it has taken this long to find out he has a broken foot?
What a game so far... I'm sure its full of mistakes but certainly enjoyable
Samoa giving away far too many penalties, indiscipline is letting scotland off the hook here
Quote from: tyroneboi on October 09, 2015, 06:19:46 PM
It's just a pity you weren't available when the job came up a few years ago! If Joe Schmidt deems him good enough to play centre for Ireland then that's good enough for me.
+1
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 10, 2015, 03:52:56 PM
Samoa giving away far too many penalties, indiscipline is letting scotland off the hook here
Scotland were quite poor.
Aussies awesome here.
Unbelievable defence - Wales are gone if they don't get something here.
Rugby like any team sport a good defense can make all the difference.
Wales will be kicking themselves. They had nearly 10 mins with 2 extra men and they couldn't score. They now have south Africa instead of Scotland doh. By the way one more loss and counting for gatlands Wales against the tri nations.
Aussie defence was excellent but I thought Wales' execution was poor when 2 men up. You could see Welsh players on either wing waving for the ball when it was just being recycled in the middle repeatedly. Albeit the two almost-tries held up were excellent pieces of defence.
I thought the Welsh scrum half Davies tries too many times to go on his own in that 10 minute spell which was never going to work against the Aussies. Though you have to hand it to the Aussie defence it was as good as you'll ever see.
Maybe it's time rugby looks at American football for how to deal with goal line decisions - too much penalising of the attacker for being illegally held up when he's crossed the try line. It's institutionalised and rules-supported cheating and too few seem to recognise it for what it is.
If it required only a simple breaking of the plane with the ball like American football rather than touching it down it might result in a faster-paced and better all-round spectacle.
Quote from: Syferus on October 10, 2015, 11:27:50 PM
Maybe it's time rugby looks at American football for how to deal with goal line decisions - too much penalising of the attacker for being illegally held up when he's crossed the try line. It's institutionalised and rules-supported cheating and too few seem to recognise it for what it is.
If it required only a simple breaking of the plane with the ball like American football rather than touching it down it might result in a faster-paced and better all-round spectacle.
I wouldn't subscribe to that at all Syf!!
Quote from: screenexile on October 10, 2015, 11:34:40 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 10, 2015, 11:27:50 PM
Maybe it's time rugby looks at American football for how to deal with goal line decisions - too much penalising of the attacker for being illegally held up when he's crossed the try line. It's institutionalised and rules-supported cheating and too few seem to recognise it for what it is.
If it required only a simple breaking of the plane with the ball like American football rather than touching it down it might result in a faster-paced and better all-round spectacle.
I wouldn't subscribe to that at all Syf!!
Wouldn't be 100% on it myself but there's an awful lot lot wrong with a system where willfully impeding a player grounding a ball results in the attacking team being pushed back at least five meters - the ball will nearly invariably come out of the resulting scrum at least a couple more meters away from the line. You are literally rewarding breaking the rules. Even pushing the scrum nearer the line would be a move in the right direction.
Quote from: Syferus on October 10, 2015, 11:27:50 PM
Maybe it's time rugby looks at American football for how to deal with goal line decisions - too much penalising of the attacker for being illegally held up when he's crossed the try line. It's institutionalised and rules-supported cheating and too few seem to recognise it for what it is.
If it required only a simple breaking of the plane with the ball like American football rather than touching it down it might result in a faster-paced and better all-round spectacle.
Definatley needs to be looked at...
As for the rest, i agree Cronin is a bit of a head scratcher, but, "in Schmidt we trust"!
For what its worth my picks at the minute are South Africa or Ireland to go all the way. I am hopeful that we are about to set the world cup on fire tomorrow evening!!
Quote from: Syferus on October 10, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 10, 2015, 11:34:40 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 10, 2015, 11:27:50 PM
Maybe it's time rugby looks at American football for how to deal with goal line decisions - too much penalising of the attacker for being illegally held up when he's crossed the try line. It's institutionalised and rules-supported cheating and too few seem to recognise it for what it is.
If it required only a simple breaking of the plane with the ball like American football rather than touching it down it might result in a faster-paced and better all-round spectacle.
I wouldn't subscribe to that at all Syf!!
Wouldn't be 100% on it myself but there's an awful lot lot wrong with a system where willfully impeding a player grounding a ball results in the attacking team being pushed back at least five meters - the ball will nearly invariably come out of the resulting scrum at least a couple more meters away from the line. You are literally rewarding breaking the rules. Even pushing the scrum nearer the line would be a move in the right direction.
Not having it. The rules are fine and the players know they need ti ground the ball correctly. Breaking the plane would make it too easy.
Quote from: Syferus on October 10, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 10, 2015, 11:34:40 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 10, 2015, 11:27:50 PM
Maybe it's time rugby looks at American football for how to deal with goal line decisions - too much penalising of the attacker for being illegally held up when he's crossed the try line. It's institutionalised and rules-supported cheating and too few seem to recognise it for what it is.
If it required only a simple breaking of the plane with the ball like American football rather than touching it down it might result in a faster-paced and better all-round spectacle.
I wouldn't subscribe to that at all Syf!!
Wouldn't be 100% on it myself but there's an awful lot lot wrong with a system where willfully impeding a player grounding a ball results in the attacking team being pushed back at least five meters - the ball will nearly invariably come out of the resulting scrum at least a couple more meters away from the line. You are literally rewarding breaking the rules. Even pushing the scrum nearer the line would be a move in the right direction.
That is madness, nail on head.
The selection of Earls at 13 is interesting.
Bastereaud has spent his games with us running at Sexton repeatedly. They have been insisting all week that they will target him, presumably with the back-row and Bastereaud.
But now with Earls, Schmidt has given them something to think about. Do French coaches prioritise attack or defence? What about PSE? Does he concentrate on stopping Ireland when the ball goes wide to the likes of Earls and the Irish back 3, or does he say f*ck it, we will outscore them like Kevin Keegan?
My prediction: Liverpool 4 Newcastle 3.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRCSEd5WcAA17Lt.jpg:large)
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 03:58:02 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRCSEd5WcAA17Lt.jpg:large)
Class!
Hope we turn up for this one!!
O'Mahony is playing like a man possessed.
A turnover and wins a scrum on their maul in the first 3 minutes.
Jaysus, how much longer do we have to endure this shite?
Sexton is actuallyquick on his feet. Good kick too
you useless bollix we were in there,
Conor Murray a very slow passer of the ball from the base of the scrum
For **** sake earls >:(
Amazing how open the game is.
Lots of errors. Earls should have held that but we cut them open very easily.
Owens will ping anyone that holds on for even a second, so maybe we should kick more when in our own half?
Thats tore ligaments there,and O`Connell gone too.
Leading but two key players gone through injury.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 11, 2015, 05:34:04 PM
Leading but two key players gone through injury.
The 2 players you don't want gone too.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2015, 05:33:03 PM
Thats tore ligaments there,and O`Connell gone too.
Looked bad alright.
If we could reduce the errors we can win it. Where are our big catches?
But the French are making errors too. They had a couple of clear overlaps and managed to screw them up.
Madigan has done well, hopefully Henderson can have an impact too.
Huge losses in terms of leadership, but the two replacements are probably better players at this stage of careers.
Ireland's back row, plus Rory Best, have been utterly immense. Need them to continue being the leaders now.
The next half of rugby is the defining moment of our World Cup.
No need to panic. Isn't the knockout stage yet.
Lose today with maybe Sexton, Def O`Connell, and likely O`Brien on suspension for the gut punch out for the next day out would lead us to a mauling from the All-Blacks. Must win today or we had it
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2015, 05:43:13 PM
Lose today with maybe Sexton, Def O`Connell, and likely O`Brien on suspension for the gut punch out for the next day out would lead us to a mauling from the All-Blacks. Must win today or we had it
What was that? On Pape right at the beginning?
TV3 never mentioned it.
That f**king ball hot or something??
Showed it on ITV, very open punch on pape, it be a def suspension
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2015, 05:51:00 PM
Showed it on ITV, very open punch on pape, it be a def suspension
Saw it on vine.
Minor enough but he will get a ban.
Let not do anything Crazy !!!! G some pass! TO THE FRENCH GUY
Madigan getting edgy.
O'Mahony is having a stormer.
Dropping like flies.
We players dropping like skittles like wales england game
2 converted penalties scores would win us this game i think
Far from over yet! Much better team but need to make it count. French never beat till final whistle!
Defending valiantly.
Henderson unbelievable!
Jaysus inspirational stuff!
So hard to watch,!
O'brien is a colossus here.
Henshaw, Henderson, O'Brien, Best and Murray all terrific.
O`Brien been a monster out there for a man who not really a number 7
Two tries... Safety net hopefully!
Great second half by the Irish, strength in depth makes up for the injuries.
we safe, only England would lose that game now lol
The replacements have done very well for us. In the past one injury, O'Driscoll, meant a loss to France.
France's are lacking imagination when they throw it about. I used to be terrified when they played off the cuff, but this lot are poor in that regard.
F*eck even our second choice front row are beating them up!
yeah on that form they probably go out and beat the all-blacks
Brilliant. By far the better team.
Replacements really shook it up.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 11, 2015, 06:38:39 PM
Brilliant. By far the better team.
Replacements really shook it up.
Bigtime. The subs all played huge roles. Henderson is turning into some player.
Next weekend should. Be some craic.
Any update on oconnell?
Quote from: JoG2 on October 11, 2015, 06:42:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 11, 2015, 06:38:39 PM
Brilliant. By far the better team.
Replacements really shook it up.
Bigtime. The subs all played huge roles. Henderson is turning into some player.
Next weekend should. Be some craic.
Any update on oconnell?
Hamstring will be scanned tomorrow. Didn't look good.
Great performance but serious personnel issues for the remainder of the tournament.
Can only worry about one game at a time now. O'brien a big loss if cited which is highly likely but i would say only sexton has a chance of making the game from the rest of the injured guys.
Hopefully *if* we win that one the other guys may have a chance.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 11, 2015, 06:54:44 PM
Can only worry about one game at a time now. O'brien a big loss if cited which is highly likely but i would say only sexton has a chance of making the game from the rest of the injured guys.
Hopefully *if* we win that one the other guys may have a chance.
What's the word on O'Mahony?
I can't remember the French threatening our line except for maybe one last ditch tackle by Earls. When has that happened before?
Anyone seen the clip of O'Brien tagging the French guy in the gut? Bound to be cited for that, no?
Quote from: Puckoon on October 11, 2015, 07:03:42 PM
Anyone seen the clip of O'Brien tagging the French guy in the gut? Bound to be cited for that, no?
Probably. It looked like an open hand, but this isn't the GAA disciplinary system we are talking about.
http://talksport.com/rugby-union/video-ireland-flanker-sean-obrien-punches-frances-pascal-pape-rugby-world-cup-clash
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 11, 2015, 07:03:42 PM
Anyone seen the clip of O'Brien tagging the French guy in the gut? Bound to be cited for that, no?
Probably. It looked like an open hand, but this isn't the GAA disciplinary system we are talking about.
At least one match I d say. Worst case scenario his World Cup is over.
Great stuff but the injuries will considerably lengthen the odds in the SF, provided we can beat Argentina of course. Any decent rugby playing Irish supporters attending the QF should think about bringing their boots.
Quote from: dferg on October 11, 2015, 07:08:24 PM
http://talksport.com/rugby-union/video-ireland-flanker-sean-obrien-punches-frances-pascal-pape-rugby-world-cup-clash
Delighted to be proven totally wrong. Didn't think we had the stones but that was incredible defence and took the opportunities well bar Earls butchering the first one. Henderson and Ma divan were both terrific.
I didn't think we would beat Argentina last week but am now a believer that even with Sexton , O'Connell out we can do it. Game was won by our back row, If O'Mahony is gone and O'brien suspended what is our srarting lock and back row combinations?
For all of O'Connell's leadership and presence, not to mention line-out & maul work, we have Henderson, Toner and a fit again Donnacha Ryan as cover in the 2nd row. They will do damage against any team.
O'Mahony & potentially O'Brien out of the back row would be a massive loss though.
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 07:22:57 PM
For all of O'Connell's leadership and presence, not to mention line-out & maul work, we have Henderson, Toner and a fit again Donnacha Ryan as cover in the 2nd row. They will do damage against any team.
O'Mahony & potentially O'Brien out of the back row would be a massive loss though.
All true, that said I am delighted Ireland played the way they did today, the game plan was outstanding, we won some great lineouts and for the most part controlled the game, we need to rest, heal, study and focus on the next opponent, Ireland have this!
Quote from: Puckoon on October 11, 2015, 07:03:42 PM
Anyone seen the clip of O'Brien tagging the French guy in the gut? Bound to be cited for that, no?
It was a yellow card offence, be a total joke if he is cited and banned
Argies by 10 next week. We'd be doing well to beat them with a full whack.
Sanchez and Hernandez are a different kettle of fish to Flaky Freddie and Fatsteauraud.
O Brien is a very silly boy I'm afraid
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2015, 07:30:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 07:22:57 PM
For all of O'Connell's leadership and presence, not to mention line-out & maul work, we have Henderson, Toner and a fit again Donnacha Ryan as cover in the 2nd row. They will do damage against any team.
O'Mahony & potentially O'Brien out of the back row would be a massive loss though.
All true, that said I am delighted Ireland played the way they did today, the game plan was outstanding, we won some great lineouts and for the most part controlled the game, we need to rest, heal, study and focus on the next opponent, Ireland have this!
Nearly schpat out me cornflakes there lad, good one
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 07:36:27 PM
Argies by 10 next week. We'd be doing well to beat them with a full whack.
Sanchez and Hernandez are a different kettle of fish to Flaky Freddie and Fatsteauraud.
O Brien is a very silly boy I'm afraid
You're infected with stage 4 negativity. Argentina aren't as good as France, no matter what way you add it up, and Ireland battered France tonight.
Quote from: tiempo on October 11, 2015, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2015, 07:30:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 07:22:57 PM
For all of O'Connell's leadership and presence, not to mention line-out & maul work, we have Henderson, Toner and a fit again Donnacha Ryan as cover in the 2nd row. They will do damage against any team.
O'Mahony & potentially O'Brien out of the back row would be a massive loss though.
All true, that said I am delighted Ireland played the way they did today, the game plan was outstanding, we won some great lineouts and for the most part controlled the game, we need to rest, heal, study and focus on the next opponent, Ireland have this!
Nearly schpat out me cornflakes there lad, good one
Ireland will be in the semi finals, injured players lends opportunity to squad players and our replacements are more than adequate.
I had Ireland at 3-1 today to beat le bleu by 10 or more, you gotta believe!
Quote from: thewobbler on October 11, 2015, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 07:36:27 PM
Argies by 10 next week. We'd be doing well to beat them with a full whack.
Sanchez and Hernandez are a different kettle of fish to Flaky Freddie and Fatsteauraud.
O Brien is a very silly boy I'm afraid
You're infected with stage 4 negativity. Argentina aren't as good as France, no matter what way you add it up, and Ireland battered France tonight.
Em Argentina beat France in paris last november. They are miles better.
That's the worst French team I've ever seen in my life. PSA should have been sacked pre -tournament. Just watch the AB's carve them to pieces next Saturday
QuoteArgies by 10 next week. We'd be doing well to beat them with a full whack.
Sanchez and Hernandez are a different kettle of fish to Flaky Freddie and Fatsteauraud.
O Brien is a very silly boy I'm afraid
You're infected with stage 4 negativity. Argentina aren't as good as France, no matter what way you add it up, and Ireland battered France tonight.rgies by 10 next week. We'd be doing well to beat them with a full whack.
Sanchez and Hernandez are a different kettle of fish to Flaky Freddie and Fatsteauraud.
O Brien is a very silly boy I'm afraid
You're infected with stage 4 negativity. Argentina aren't as good as France, no matter what way you add it up, and Ireland battered France tonight.
He's a Dublin GAA supporter. Negativity is their upbringing.
Quote from: StGallsGAA on October 11, 2015, 08:29:16 PM
QuoteArgies by 10 next week. We'd be doing well to beat them with a full whack.
Sanchez and Hernandez are a different kettle of fish to Flaky Freddie and Fatsteauraud.
O Brien is a very silly boy I'm afraid
You're infected with stage 4 negativity. Argentina aren't as good as France, no matter what way you add it up, and Ireland battered France tonight.rgies by 10 next week. We'd be doing well to beat them with a full whack.
Sanchez and Hernandez are a different kettle of fish to Flaky Freddie and Fatsteauraud.
O Brien is a very silly boy I'm afraid
You're infected with stage 4 negativity. Argentina aren't as good as France, no matter what way you add it up, and Ireland battered France tonight.
He's a Dublin GAA supporter. Negativity is their upbringing.
Winning is our strapline. You left that bit out ;)
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 07:51:21 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 11, 2015, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 07:36:27 PM
Argies by 10 next week. We'd be doing well to beat them with a full whack.
Sanchez and Hernandez are a different kettle of fish to Flaky Freddie and Fatsteauraud.
O Brien is a very silly boy I'm afraid
You're infected with stage 4 negativity. Argentina aren't as good as France, no matter what way you add it up, and Ireland battered France tonight.
Em Argentina beat France in paris last november. They are miles better.
That's the worst French team I've ever seen in my life. PSA should have been sacked pre -tournament. Just watch the AB's carve them to pieces next Saturday
Hernandez is 33 now.
Henshaw the obvious star of the four centres that will start. Exceptional today.
We all knew there'd be injuries in the squad, but not that many in one game.
I go with the heavies in the back row next time out with the injuries, Move Henderson to 6, Henry go at 7, bring in Ryan at Lock, leaves damn all on the bench though
Quote from: Syferus on October 11, 2015, 08:44:40 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 07:51:21 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 11, 2015, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 07:36:27 PM
Argies by 10 next week. We'd be doing well to beat them with a full whack.
Sanchez and Hernandez are a different kettle of fish to Flaky Freddie and Fatsteauraud.
O Brien is a very silly boy I'm afraid
You're infected with stage 4 negativity. Argentina aren't as good as France, no matter what way you add it up, and Ireland battered France tonight.
Em Argentina beat France in paris last november. They are miles better.
That's the worst French team I've ever seen in my life. PSA should have been sacked pre -tournament. Just watch the AB's carve them to pieces next Saturday
Hernandez is 33 now.
Henshaw the obvious star of the four centres that will start. Exceptional today.
Played well did Robbie today aside from the 3 silly grubber kicks tried when there was men outside him. He's not in Hernadez's league yet though
How big of a loss is O'Connell? Apart from vast big-game experience, and bearing in mind he's a player about to retire, will possible replacements offer the same and more?
Quote from: ONeill on October 11, 2015, 11:50:31 PM
How big of a loss is O'Connell? Apart from vast big-game experience, and bearing in mind he's a player about to retire, will possible replacements offer the same and more?
Talking about his loss I'd say terms of leadership on the field I'd say a fair bit. General play well I thought Henderson's second half was much better than O'Connell's first.
I reckon we need Sexton and O'Brien in the near games more than O'Connell so it will be an interesting week.
We were immense today. Never gave the frogs a sniff of the line and played intelligent powerful rugby. Henshaw was my MOTM although O'Brien also had a spectacular game.
The Argies will be another step up it'll be interesting to see how we will line up for it given injuries/tactics.
Schmidt showed his worth today. France threw everything at us from the start and our defence never looked like conceding a try.
Argentina around 2/1 to win.
I can't see complacency creeping into this squad after Wales 11 and Argentina themselves in 07. We're a better side than Argentina and with a better coach to boot. I'd be confident we'll finally make the last four. Then we'll have to assess what players are even available to us and if we can take the next step.
Tough to watch that O'Connell injury, looked like a hamstring tendon off the bone. Surgery, he'll do well to play again at his age.
Quote from: Syferus on October 11, 2015, 08:44:40 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 07:51:21 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 11, 2015, 07:42:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 11, 2015, 07:36:27 PM
Argies by 10 next week. We'd be doing well to beat them with a full whack.
Sanchez and Hernandez are a different kettle of fish to Flaky Freddie and Fatsteauraud.
O Brien is a very silly boy I'm afraid
You're infected with stage 4 negativity. Argentina aren't as good as France, no matter what way you add it up, and Ireland battered France tonight.
Em Argentina beat France in paris last november. They are miles better.
That's the worst French team I've ever seen in my life. PSA should have been sacked pre -tournament. Just watch the AB's carve them to pieces next Saturday
Hernandez is 33 now.
Henshaw the obvious star of the four centres that will start. Exceptional today.
So is Wes Hoolahan...and we all know he is a genuis.
Anyone who uses the term "Argies" goes down in my estimation (for what it is worth).
O'Mahony out of rest of world cup. Big miss with other potential injuries and suspensions.
Quote from: Canalman on October 12, 2015, 09:52:21 AM
Anyone who uses the term "Argies" goes down in my estimation (for what it is worth).
I'm devastated . . .
Brezzie touting it on Twitter that O'Connell has torn the hamstring off the bone and is in serious pain. Horrible injury!
Unfortunate for O'Mahony to miss out as well that's 2 big leaders gone. However Henderson and Henry have the experience now and can do a job as replacements.
Sexton and O'Brien missing would be a bigger calamity I feel. We could maybe get past Argentina without O'Brien but I don't think we'd beat Australia without him and definitely not without Sexton.
I thought O'Mahony was near man of the match before he got injured. He's going to be a big loss, but as said above, Henry and Henderson can provide top cover for Paulie and O'Mahony.
Sexton will need to come back in, and Sean O'Brien needs to stay fit, but more importantly, we need lads to step up like they did yesterday and drive it forward. Heaslip, O'Brien, Henderson, Murray, Toner, Best, Kearney, Henshaw.
We're suddenly gone quite thin though for depth. Will replacements be flown out? Any word on who they might be? Leinster have barely any players left :)
Quote from: tiempo on October 11, 2015, 07:35:32 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 11, 2015, 07:03:42 PM
Anyone seen the clip of O'Brien tagging the French guy in the gut? Bound to be cited for that, no?
It was a yellow card offence, be a total joke if he is cited and banned
Considering the Aussie lad got cited for dropping the shoulder into a ruck I really can't see O'Brien escape the citing official and get the one match ban mores the pity.
Strange as it seems but the introduction of Madigan and Henderson swung the game in Irelands favour, both were immense when introduced.
Madigan isn't as controlled or as disciplined as Sexton and the French hadn't a notion what he was going to do when he'd the ball and he kept them on their toes. He certainly upped the tempo on his introduction, but he's only one wild pass away from something mad and luckily his moment of madness yesterday went unpunished.
He reminds me of that Carlos Spencer lad who ended up playing second fiddle to Andrew Mehrtens, a less flamboyant outhalf for the All Blacks, his type are a coaches nightmare I'm sure.
As for Sexton, for all his undoubted ability its looking like he just hasn't got the physique for a long career in rugby, he's just not able to ship the big hits coming down on him.
Can't see O'Connell back in an Irish jersey again I'm afraid. A hamstring injury like that on a player his age would take months to heal and rehab. He's a lot to be proud off and has left a team well capable of leading themselves with Rory Best, Heaslip, Kearney (Robb) seemingly taking up the mantel yesterday. A sign of a good, well drilled unit.
Cian Healy is still a bit of a disappointment so far in this tournament, maybe still ring rusty after the long injury spell, but he'll need a vast improvement for the Pumas who will be no pushover and the team will need to dig deep to get the result, but there does seem to be something more resilient in the group that hasn't been seen in a good while, long may that continue.
Quote from: moysider on October 11, 2015, 07:14:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 11, 2015, 07:03:42 PM
Anyone seen the clip of O'Brien tagging the French guy in the gut? Bound to be cited for that, no?
Probably. It looked like an open hand, but this isn't the GAA disciplinary system we are talking about.
At least one match I d say. Worst case scenario his World Cup is over.
Really?
would it have been any more than a yellow card offense if the ref had seen it?
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 12, 2015, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 11, 2015, 07:14:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 11, 2015, 07:03:42 PM
Anyone seen the clip of O'Brien tagging the French guy in the gut? Bound to be cited for that, no?
Probably. It looked like an open hand, but this isn't the GAA disciplinary system we are talking about.
At least one match I d say. Worst case scenario his World Cup is over.
Really?
would it have been any more than a yellow card offense if the ref had seen it?
I wonder did below have anything to do with Pape getting a dig.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaO0v7435fs
Any of these injuries in isolation can be worked around, but now we're looking at big disruption.
Madigan and Henderson did well yesterday because the game suited them, fast and open. What's required for Argentina might be much tighter with more surgical kicking required.
Muldoon will be dusting down the Ireland jersey at this rate!
Rudduck you'd imagine anyway
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 12, 2015, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 11, 2015, 07:14:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 11, 2015, 07:03:42 PM
Anyone seen the clip of O'Brien tagging the French guy in the gut? Bound to be cited for that, no?
Probably. It looked like an open hand, but this isn't the GAA disciplinary system we are talking about.
At least one match I d say. Worst case scenario his World Cup is over.
Really?
would it have been any more than a yellow card offense if the ref had seen it?
Going by previous suspensions in this tournament I would say he looking at a game ban. Bad news for the team.
They should be able for Argentina without Sean O'Brien, if Sexton can play. If Madigan starts I'd be worried.
You're still looking at (probably)
Healy
Best
Ross
Toner
Henderson
Henry
O'Brien or Ryan 6 Henry 7
Murray
Sexton/Madigan
Bowe
Henshaw
Earls / Trimble if he's flown in
D Kearney
R Kearney
That side should be able to beat Argentina.
Who would be on the bench, the replacements yesterday played their part, I'm sure it will be the same in future games.
The front row bench will be the same I'd say, McGrath, Strauss and White. Luke Fitzgerald, Reddan, Madigan if Sexton is playing, Jackson if he's not, Ryan if O'Brien is playing, maybe Jordi Murphy if he's not, and maybe Trimble/Earls?
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 11:14:53 AM
They should be able for Argentina without Sean O'Brien, if Sexton can play. If Madigan starts I'd be worried.
You're still looking at (probably)
Healy
Best
Ross
Toner
Henderson
Henry
O'Brien or Ryan 6 Henry 7
Murray
Sexton/Madigan
Bowe
Henshaw
Earls / Trimble if he's flown in
D Kearney
R Kearney
That side should be able to beat Argentina.
Heaslip will obviously start and I would say Henderson 6 and Ryan at lock.
O'Mahony now confirmed as out with knee ligament injury. So at a minimum, Payne O'Mahony and O'Connell needing replaced!
A bit of patching up to be done for the Puma game.
Yeah, possibly. There's a bit of versatility there with Ryan and Henderson. But Henderson has been brilliant in the second row, I'd be inclined to leave him alone :)
Who comes in? Trimble, Tuohy and Ruddock maybe?
Special mention for Devin Toner yesterday I thought that was his best game in an Ireland shirt he caused havoc at lineout, defended well and carried well. I was skeptical about him starting ahead of Henderson but he was well worth his place.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 11:31:31 AM
Yeah, possibly. There's a bit of versatility there with Ryan and Henderson. But Henderson has been brilliant in the second row, I'd be inclined to leave him alone :)
Bizarredly Js said he was a backrow replacement if POC had not been injured.
A back 5 in the pack of Toner, Ryan, Henderson, Jordi, Henry and Heaslip will not beat Argentina in my view
Better hope SOB gets off
That would be 6 players, so we'd have a good chance :) I know what you're saying, and it won't be easy, but Argentina have not been great in this tournament either, and I think Ireland would have enough, even with a back 5 pack of say Ryan, Toner, Henderson, Henry, Heaslip.
Now a semi final against Australia? Fuggedabaddit. O'Brien would be back in that scenario, but that's where I think our new lack of depth would be exposed.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 12:11:26 PM
That would be 6 players, so we'd have a good chance :) I know what you're saying, and it won't be easy, but Argentina have not been great in this tournament either, and I think Ireland would have enough, even with a back 5 pack of say Ryan, Toner, Henderson, Henry, Heaslip.
Now a semi final against Australia? Fuggedabaddit. O'Brien would be back in that scenario, but that's where I think our new lack of depth would be exposed.
Definitely would need Sexton for that one. He can get to his opposite number and we would need that very badly with Foley in the form he is in.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 12:11:26 PM
That would be 6 players, so we'd have a good chance :) I know what you're saying, and it won't be easy, but Argentina have not been great in this tournament either, and I think Ireland would have enough, even with a back 5 pack of say Ryan, Toner, Henderson, Henry, Heaslip.
Now a semi final against Australia? Fuggedabaddit. O'Brien would be back in that scenario, but that's where I think our new lack of depth would be exposed.
Argentina have been fantastic AZ. Have you watched them at all?
Nearly beat the best team in the first game. Topping the charts in rucks hit, tries scored etc.
Georgia and Tonga are ranked higher then Canada and Romania let's not forget.
They had one softer game then we had.
2/1 phenomenal odds
Watched a bit of Argentina. Didn't think they were that impressive against Georgia or Tonga.Against the All Black, you'd expect a performance. They are playing them every year now, twice, and it was the first game of the tournament when New Zealand would only be getting going.
Ireland have been ramping up, the fixtures have fallen lovely for them, and the second half against France was their best so far. Anything near that level will beat Argentina.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 12:37:47 PM
Watched a bit of Argentina. Didn't think they were that impressive against Georgia or Tonga.Against the All Black, you'd expect a performance. They are playing them every year now, twice, and it was the first game of the tournament when New Zealand would only be getting going.
Ireland have been ramping up, the fixtures have fallen lovely for them, and the second half against France was their best so far. Anything near that level will beat Argentina.
Just have to disagree I think we're going to lose on Sunday
Sanchez- Hernandez- Bosch with Imoff in the back 3 is a much better backline then ours in my opinion
With the two pack leaders gone and possibly SOB it's going to be very difficult. They'll pick Madigan off as well and force him to start thinking which is never a good thing and he's an instinctive player and not a thinker
Its very easy to see reading the media today that
a) They don't watch the Rugby Championship
b) Haven't watched the WC to date
c) Have no idea what clubs the Argentina players play for
I think if Sexton plays we'll eke a narrow in. If he doesn't we'll lose in my view
I think you're doing a Dublin v Mayo, and Dublin v Kerry on it. When Ireland win, maybe with Sean O'Brien getting off beforehand, you'll be on uar.com.ar telling all the Argentinian lads that we own them, and they don't have any natural backs :)
Indiana.....if I told you at 3pm yesterday that we would be winning 9-6 at ht but that Sexton and O'Connell had been taken off injured would your view have been that we would have won 24-9?
The game between Argentina and Ireland could go either way. Events will happen before the game and during the game that will swing it one way or another. The beauty of sport is that we don't know what way a game like this will unfold.
I found my support for the team increasing with every injury blow they took and I have to say I was really proud of them yesterday. I cant wait for Sunday and hope that the support for the team will grow to an even higher crescendo both inside and outside the stadium.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 12:56:28 PM
I think you're doing a Dublin v Mayo, and Dublin v Kerry on it. When Ireland win, maybe with Sean O'Brien getting off beforehand, you'll be on uar.com.ar telling all the Argentinian lads that we own them, and they don't have any natural backs :)
There wouldnt be the same apprehension from the players going into this game, so even the replacements who come in will think that Ireland should be winning this game. That should mean a positive attitude from the players and hopefully a winning one.
Be a very tough ask and again will be a tough brutal encounter, serious hits flying in in these games. Unfortunately it will be the lack of back up (of sufficient standard) that could be Ireland's undoing in this tournament.
http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/world-cup/69382-france-accuse-o-brien-of-assault (http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/world-cup/69382-france-accuse-o-brien-of-assault)
This should help. The French are ludicrously overplaying the incident.
Remember PSE defended Pape for his cracking of Heaslip's vertebra with his knee. Hooper's tackle was more dangerous and there was hardly provocation by Brown as he was just standing over a ruck.
To divert for a while, something has to happen in Rugby rules. How could any parent watch that yesterday and wave little Johnny off to rugby training tonight? I know it's a different level, but international rugby is the flagship of the professional game. I've seen the same thing over and over again at Thomond Park as well. It's just unreal the hits and the physicality. The size of the players, and the punishment they are dishing out and taking is just gone beyond the beyond now. That yesterday, and other games at this world cup, is just not sustainable. Forget concussions, the sheer toll on a lad's body, for f*ck all money when you compare it to soccer, is just not right.
Quote from: The Trap on October 12, 2015, 12:59:16 PM
Indiana.....if I told you at 3pm yesterday that we would be winning 9-6 at ht but that Sexton and O'Connell had been taken off injured would your view have been that we would have won 24-9?
The game between Argentina and Ireland could go either way. Events will happen before the game and during the game that will swing it one way or another. The beauty of sport is that we don't know what way a game like this will unfold.
I found my support for the team increasing with every injury blow they took and I have to say I was really proud of them yesterday. I cant wait for Sunday and hope that the support for the team will grow to an even higher crescendo both inside and outside the stadium.
I've said France were crap from the start.
This idea that NZ won't beat them by 20-30 points at the weekend truly proves rugby is the ultimate bandwagon sport in Ireland.
France are absolutely shite under PSA. When Guy Noves takes the job the proper values of French rugby will be restored.
A shocking outfit. Look at that lineout where Henderson drove Le Roux back 25 yards.
The French secondrow takes the lineout and instead of pivoting himself as the fulcrum of the ensueing maul he hands the ball to an underpowered number 7 who hadn't even attached himself to the maul.
You wouldn't see that in AIL dIV 4
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 12:56:28 PM
I think you're doing a Dublin v Mayo, and Dublin v Kerry on it. When Ireland win, maybe with Sean O'Brien getting off beforehand, you'll be on uar.com.ar telling all the Argentinian lads that we own them, and they don't have any natural backs :)
Hahahahaha very good.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 01:05:08 PM
To divert for a while, something has to happen in Rugby rules. How could any parent watch that yesterday and wave little Johnny off to rugby training tonight? I know it's a different level, but international rugby is the flagship of the professional game. I've seen the same thing over and over again at Thomond Park as well. It's just unreal the hits and the physicality. The size of the players, and the punishment they are dishing out and taking is just gone beyond the beyond now. That yesterday, and other games at this world cup, is just not sustainable. Forget concussions, the sheer toll on a lad's body, for f*ck all money when you compare it to soccer, is just not right.
I will worry about it when my lads get older (if they are still interested). The World Cup has been heartening to a certain extent that the crocodile roll has been almost stamped out by the referees and I have seen a few lads pulled on doing a Superman dive through a ruck whilst bound to feck all. Having said that the pounding of the teams defending their try line in the match yesterday and Aussies v Wales the night before would make you want to lie in a darkened room :o
Sorry, Tony, that read slightly more 'pontificating' than I meant. I understand people encouraging their kids to play any sport, and all sport. I should have left the 'Will someone think of the children' out of it.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 02:04:50 PM
Sorry, Tony, that read slightly more 'pontificating' than I meant. I understand people encouraging their kids to play any sport, and all sport. I should have left the 'Will someone think of the children' out of it.
It didn't read that way to me and I know you weren't questioning the parenting skills of someone sending their children to rugby. What you wrote made sense and it does give pause for thought but I have a few years grace before telling them to take up knitting or golf :D
Rhys Ruddock on his way as cover for O'Mahony.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 12, 2015, 12:49:54 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 12:37:47 PM
Watched a bit of Argentina. Didn't think they were that impressive against Georgia or Tonga.Against the All Black, you'd expect a performance. They are playing them every year now, twice, and it was the first game of the tournament when New Zealand would only be getting going.
Ireland have been ramping up, the fixtures have fallen lovely for them, and the second half against France was their best so far. Anything near that level will beat Argentina.
Just have to disagree I think we're going to lose on Sunday
Sanchez- Hernandez- Bosch with Imoff in the back 3 is a much better backline then ours in my opinion
With the two pack leaders gone and possibly SOB it's going to be very difficult. They'll pick Madigan off as well and force him to start thinking which is never a good thing and he's an instinctive player and not a thinker
Its very easy to see reading the media today that
a) They don't watch the Rugby Championship
b) Haven't watched the WC to date
c) Have no idea what clubs the Argentina players play for
I think if Sexton plays we'll eke a narrow in. If he doesn't we'll lose in my view
The media maybe don't but I think Schmidt has a fairly good idea of what we're up against . . .
http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/joe-schmidt-had-reporters-laughing-with-his-361-word-answer-about-argentina/43849
Quote from: INDIANA on October 12, 2015, 01:14:43 PM
You wouldn't see that in AIL dIV 4
There's got to be a better rugger equivalent of "you wouldn't see that in the Phoenix Park" than this.
Indiana is wasted posting on a message board. He should really be involved in the Irish set up.
If anyone can come up with a rationale for how Sean O'Brien is not only innocent, but a victim, Indiana can.
Where's the guy that did the slow-mo video, with all the arrows and taglines, of the Diarmuid Connolly incident? That's the man for the job.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 12, 2015, 03:07:09 PM
Where's the guy that did the slow-mo video, with all the arrows and taglines, of the Diarmuid Connolly incident? That's the man for the job.
http://soberpaddy.com/should-dermot-connolly-have-been-sent-off/#more-2167
Sean O'Brien 'powered sideways' to rescue himself...
That's the guy that used to be a sub goalie for Dublin! He went off the rails for a while and is back on track now. A good story actually. Anyway, get him to do up another one of them and we'll be sound.
well lads im usually optimistic. im staying optimistic.
Argentina wont beat us next week.
it WILL be quite tough without O'Brien, O'Connell, O'Mahoney and unless Sexton makes a very quick recovery i dont think he will start. However... i believe now that no matter what players Schmidt goes with and in whatever position he chooses to put them, they will all deliver. such is the mentality within this squad and such is the genius of Schmidt!
the old chestnut of "lets do it for Paulie" in the dressing room is not to be underestimated either, not in this group of players, and no better man would you want in that unfortunate position than Paul O'Connell. he will lead as well off the field as he has done on it.
i am also hopeful that O'Brien will be banned for 1 game only. and he will be back for a semi final V Australia. and hopefully Sexton too, but hats off to Madigan yesterday, and the rest of the replacements!
the OZs are going very well as we all know but i cant help thinking they might have peaked too early. we are moving up the gears nicely now, and even with the injuries, the WHOLE squad has actually been given a lift by the result, and the manner of the result yesterday.
only time will tell but i think the stars are aligning for us this year!!!
Regarding calling up players, Madigan was 2nd choice out half, 3rd choice scrum half and an option at centre. He is likely to become 1st choice out half, for a while anyway, thus leaving us with 2 scrum halves.
If Schmidt has to call up two players for O'Connell & O'Mahoney, and Sexton remains with the squad, could he go for only 1 forward and an extra back? Put it this way, with Sexton injured, we have only 4 players covering 9 & 10. Compare that with 3 hookers.
I haven't read all the replies lads but does anyone think that O'Brien's actions were a cheap, stupid thing to do and not something someone of his experience and importance should be doing in one of the biggest games of his career and a key game for his country? We all see the red mist but he is paid a lot of money not to make stupid mistakes like that. If he is cited and misses the game he would want to hope that his team mates pull it off and beat Argentina because his actions could possibly have a huge impact on the rest of the tournament for Ireland in a very negative way.
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2015, 05:27:50 PM
Regarding calling up players, Madigan was 2nd choice out half, 3rd choice scrum half and an option at centre. He is likely to become 1st choice out half, for a while anyway, thus leaving us with 2 scrum halves.
If Schmidt has to call up two players for O'Connell & O'Mahoney, and Sexton remains with the squad, could he go for only 1 forward and an extra back? Put it this way, with Sexton injured, we have only 4 players covering 9 & 10. Compare that with 3 hookers.
O Mahony has been replaced by Ruddock
I reckon Touhy is either there or on-route but until O'Connell's scan they won't make formal replacement
Sexton will remain in squad.
The question is Payne. If he is gone do they go for a winger/centre such as Trimble or McFadden?
Or if Sexton is out for next game do you take it that Madigan is dedicated to being outhalf for coming weeks and get another scrum-half over?
/Jim.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 12, 2015, 05:36:58 PM
I haven't read all the replies lads but does anyone think that O'Brien's actions were a cheap, stupid thing to do and not something someone of his experience and importance should be doing in one of the biggest games of his career and a key game for his country? We all see the red mist but he is paid a lot of money not to make stupid mistakes like that. If he is cited and misses the game he would want to hope that his team mates pull it off and beat Argentina because his actions could possibly have a huge impact on the rest of the tournament for Ireland in a very negative way.
I'd be of the same opinion to do. Crazy thing to do
Quote from: Two Hands FFS on October 12, 2015, 05:39:14 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 12, 2015, 05:36:58 PM
I haven't read all the replies lads but does anyone think that O'Brien's actions were a cheap, stupid thing to do and not something someone of his experience and importance should be doing in one of the biggest games of his career and a key game for his country? We all see the red mist but he is paid a lot of money not to make stupid mistakes like that. If he is cited and misses the game he would want to hope that his team mates pull it off and beat Argentina because his actions could possibly have a huge impact on the rest of the tournament for Ireland in a very negative way.
I'd be of the same opinion to do. Crazy thing to do
His manager might see it that way too. And see him out for longer than citing commissioner might do?
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 12, 2015, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Two Hands FFS on October 12, 2015, 05:39:14 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 12, 2015, 05:36:58 PM
I haven't read all the replies lads but does anyone think that O'Brien's actions were a cheap, stupid thing to do and not something someone of his experience and importance should be doing in one of the biggest games of his career and a key game for his country? We all see the red mist but he is paid a lot of money not to make stupid mistakes like that. If he is cited and misses the game he would want to hope that his team mates pull it off and beat Argentina because his actions could possibly have a huge impact on the rest of the tournament for Ireland in a very negative way.
I'd be of the same opinion to do. Crazy thing to do
His manager might see it that way too. And see him out for longer than citing commissioner might do?
/Jim.
i dont think this will be the case.
but i do agree it was stupid. i dont actually know why he lost it, Pape didnt seem to do much to warrant that kind of response from O'Brien...
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 12, 2015, 05:43:56 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 12, 2015, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Two Hands FFS on October 12, 2015, 05:39:14 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 12, 2015, 05:36:58 PM
I haven't read all the replies lads but does anyone think that O'Brien's actions were a cheap, stupid thing to do and not something someone of his experience and importance should be doing in one of the biggest games of his career and a key game for his country? We all see the red mist but he is paid a lot of money not to make stupid mistakes like that. If he is cited and misses the game he would want to hope that his team mates pull it off and beat Argentina because his actions could possibly have a huge impact on the rest of the tournament for Ireland in a very negative way.
I'd be of the same opinion to do. Crazy thing to do
His manager might see it that way too. And see him out for longer than citing commissioner might do?
/Jim.
i dont think this will be the case.
but i do agree it was stupid. i dont actually know why he lost it, Pape didnt seem to do much to warrant that kind of response from O'Brien...
That would be my read on it too. Stupidity
It was absolutely moronic from O'Brien. 23 seconds into the game. A lot of people saying a yellow card offence might be a bit blinkered. If ref sees you throwing a punch, regardless of fact it was to the body, you'd do well to avoid a red card. Very, very lucky.
He probably deserved man of the match yesterday but he gave away a lot of penalties too. Needs reigned in a bit.
Perhaps retribution for Pape's tackle on Heaslip and resultant vertebral injury.
Stupid nonetheless!
Quote from: maximus on October 12, 2015, 07:27:21 PM
Perhaps retribution for Pape's tackle on Heaslip and resultant vertebral injury.
Stupid nonetheless!
If so, that would be even more idiotic. Ireland won that game and the six nations. Revenge enough in itself. If he was to hold that grudge for six months waiting to unleash it in Ireland's biggest game in four years, you'd question the sanity of it.
Anyway, the citing had been confirmed. Apparently low end of the suspensions for this particular offence is around two weeks. Hearing tomorrow at 1pm.
Quote from: gallsman on October 12, 2015, 07:37:29 PM
Quote from: maximus on October 12, 2015, 07:27:21 PM
Perhaps retribution for Pape's tackle on Heaslip and resultant vertebral injury.
Stupid nonetheless!
If so, that would be even more idiotic. Ireland won that game and the six nations. Revenge enough in itself. If he was to hold that grudge for six months waiting to unleash it in Ireland's biggest game in four years, you'd question the sanity of it.
Anyway, the citing had been confirmed. Apparently low end of the suspensions for this particular offence is around two weeks. Hearing tomorrow at 1pm.
Pape also was the main culprit for both O'Connell and O'Mahoney injuries yesterday. And considering the French talk all week was how they were going to target Sexton, I'd say taking no sh*t from Pape was talked about all week.
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2015, 07:39:46 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 12, 2015, 07:37:29 PM
Quote from: maximus on October 12, 2015, 07:27:21 PM
Perhaps retribution for Pape's tackle on Heaslip and resultant vertebral injury.
Stupid nonetheless!
If so, that would be even more idiotic. Ireland won that game and the six nations. Revenge enough in itself. If he was to hold that grudge for six months waiting to unleash it in Ireland's biggest game in four years, you'd question the sanity of it.
Anyway, the citing had been confirmed. Apparently low end of the suspensions for this particular offence is around two weeks. Hearing tomorrow at 1pm.
Pape also was the main culprit for both O'Connell and O'Mahoney injuries yesterday. And considering the French talk all week was how they were going to target Sexton, I'd say taking no sh*t from Pape was talked about all week.
ah i would think its a more professional set up than that. they wouldn't pay much heed to newspaper talk or keeping an eye on this fella or that fella.
as it was so early in the game he might have been a bit too wound up or something and lost the head for a second. sure the tank probably doesn't know his own strength!! it wasn't a closed fist so that might help his cause.
looking at Pape dropping like a bag of shite, i wouldn't like to get a closed fist clatter off Sean O 'Brien!!
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 12, 2015, 08:33:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2015, 07:39:46 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 12, 2015, 07:37:29 PM
Quote from: maximus on October 12, 2015, 07:27:21 PM
Perhaps retribution for Pape's tackle on Heaslip and resultant vertebral injury.
Stupid nonetheless!
If so, that would be even more idiotic. Ireland won that game and the six nations. Revenge enough in itself. If he was to hold that grudge for six months waiting to unleash it in Ireland's biggest game in four years, you'd question the sanity of it.
Anyway, the citing had been confirmed. Apparently low end of the suspensions for this particular offence is around two weeks. Hearing tomorrow at 1pm.
Pape also was the main culprit for both O'Connell and O'Mahoney injuries yesterday. And considering the French talk all week was how they were going to target Sexton, I'd say taking no sh*t from Pape was talked about all week.
ah i would think its a more professional set up than that. they wouldn't pay much heed to newspaper talk or keeping an eye on this fella or that fella.
as it was so early in the game he might have been a bit too wound up or something and lost the head for a second. sure the tank probably doesn't know his own strength!! it wasn't a closed fist so that might help his cause.
looking at Pape dropping like a bag of shite, i wouldn't like to get a closed fist clatter off Sean O 'Brien!!
I wonder how much of that was for the cameras.
regarding being the "culprit" in the Sexton and O'Connell injuries, I didn't see anything wrong with either tackle?
Would anybody on here not mention Australia or the semi, and get a grip, theres a quarter final to play and you take it one game at a time, if the players have the supporters attitude they are fucked. Its nearly like the Mayo bandwagon having a clean run to the all-lreland next year and disregarding the games in between. Ruddock a good player, Touhy will come for O`Connell. giving the hammering we taking up front i go for an additional pack player for Payne also
Quote from: CiKe on October 12, 2015, 08:43:41 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 12, 2015, 08:33:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2015, 07:39:46 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 12, 2015, 07:37:29 PM
Quote from: maximus on October 12, 2015, 07:27:21 PM
Perhaps retribution for Pape's tackle on Heaslip and resultant vertebral injury.
Stupid nonetheless!
If so, that would be even more idiotic. Ireland won that game and the six nations. Revenge enough in itself. If he was to hold that grudge for six months waiting to unleash it in Ireland's biggest game in four years, you'd question the sanity of it.
Anyway, the citing had been confirmed. Apparently low end of the suspensions for this particular offence is around two weeks. Hearing tomorrow at 1pm.
Pape also was the main culprit for both O'Connell and O'Mahoney injuries yesterday. And considering the French talk all week was how they were going to target Sexton, I'd say taking no sh*t from Pape was talked about all week.
ah i would think its a more professional set up than that. they wouldn't pay much heed to newspaper talk or keeping an eye on this fella or that fella.
as it was so early in the game he might have been a bit too wound up or something and lost the head for a second. sure the tank probably doesn't know his own strength!! it wasn't a closed fist so that might help his cause.
looking at Pape dropping like a bag of shite, i wouldn't like to get a closed fist clatter off Sean O 'Brien!!
I wonder how much of that was for the cameras.
regarding being the "culprit" in the Sexton and O'Connell injuries, I didn't see anything wrong with either tackle?
Not Sexton, O'Mahoney. I am not saying there was anything wrong with the tackles. Just that he has form injuring Irish players. I am sure it was discussed beforehand and for some of them, there was no way they would let him intimidate them.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/11/19/2D4EDF3700000578-0-Sean_O_Brien_appears_to_punch_Pascal_Pape_in_the_chest-a-121_1444587611249.jpg)
Here is a good shot of it.
You can see all of O'Brien's knuckles and at least half of his fingers. The is hardly a 'closed fist punch'. I'd say maximum one match.
Hope Trimble is called into the squad.
Class,exciting player
Squeaky bum time!
Quote from: Gold on October 12, 2015, 11:51:12 PM
Hope Trimble is called into the squad.
Class,exciting player
Squeaky bum time!
Schmidt is definitely a fan, having brought him in from the cold last year and Trimble really delivered for him. But surely he will look for 9, 10 &/or 13 cover, rather than 11, 13 & 14 cover?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 12, 2015, 11:13:38 PM
Would anybody on here not mention Australia or the semi, and get a grip, theres a quarter final to play and you take it one game at a time, if the players have the supporters attitude they are fucked. Its nearly like the Mayo bandwagon having a clean run to the all-lreland next year and disregarding the games in between. Ruddock a good player, Touhy will come for O`Connell. giving the hammering we taking up front i go for an additional pack player for Payne also
Will ye cop yerself on tf. If there is a train of thought out there like that it is coming from mischief makers and then projected onto us like the likes of you. Can you not tell the difference between Roscommon/Galway posters, obvious wums and actual Mayo posters. Catch a grip a stór tf.
Quote from: Gold on October 12, 2015, 11:51:12 PM
Hope Trimble is called into the squad.
Class,exciting player
Squeaky bum time!
Trimble yes. But are we losing a back for sure?
Mike McCarthy coming in for O'Connell apparently.
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2015, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: CiKe on October 12, 2015, 08:43:41 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 12, 2015, 08:33:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 12, 2015, 07:39:46 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 12, 2015, 07:37:29 PM
Quote from: maximus on October 12, 2015, 07:27:21 PM
Perhaps retribution for Pape's tackle on Heaslip and resultant vertebral injury.
Stupid nonetheless!
If so, that would be even more idiotic. Ireland won that game and the six nations. Revenge enough in itself. If he was to hold that grudge for six months waiting to unleash it in Ireland's biggest game in four years, you'd question the sanity of it.
Anyway, the citing had been confirmed. Apparently low end of the suspensions for this particular offence is around two weeks. Hearing tomorrow at 1pm.
Pape also was the main culprit for both O'Connell and O'Mahoney injuries yesterday. And considering the French talk all week was how they were going to target Sexton, I'd say taking no sh*t from Pape was talked about all week.
ah i would think its a more professional set up than that. they wouldn't pay much heed to newspaper talk or keeping an eye on this fella or that fella.
as it was so early in the game he might have been a bit too wound up or something and lost the head for a second. sure the tank probably doesn't know his own strength!! it wasn't a closed fist so that might help his cause.
looking at Pape dropping like a bag of shite, i wouldn't like to get a closed fist clatter off Sean O 'Brien!!
I wonder how much of that was for the cameras.
regarding being the "culprit" in the Sexton and O'Connell injuries, I didn't see anything wrong with either tackle?
Not Sexton, O'Mahoney. I am not saying there was anything wrong with the tackles. Just that he has form injuring Irish players. I am sure it was discussed beforehand and for some of them, there was no way they would let him intimidate them.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/11/19/2D4EDF3700000578-0-Sean_O_Brien_appears_to_punch_Pascal_Pape_in_the_chest-a-121_1444587611249.jpg)
Here is a good shot of it.
You can see all of O'Brien's knuckles and at least half of his fingers. The is hardly a 'closed fist punch'. I'd say maximum one match.
Cant say he didnt deserve it if was retribution but silly stuff none the less. There's plently of opportunity in rugby to get in a sly cheap dig, (quite often legally) if he really wanted revenge.
Them hoors wud be physced to the teeth before hand so he probably let it get the better of him momentarily, done that meself at football and got away with it :P
Need to get the Dublin team's lawyers on the job!
Quote from: moysider on October 13, 2015, 12:43:09 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 12, 2015, 11:13:38 PM
Would anybody on here not mention Australia or the semi, and get a grip, theres a quarter final to play and you take it one game at a time, if the players have the supporters attitude they are fucked. Its nearly like the Mayo bandwagon having a clean run to the all-lreland next year and disregarding the games in between. Ruddock a good player, Touhy will come for O`Connell. giving the hammering we taking up front i go for an additional pack player for Payne also
Will ye cop yerself on tf. If there is a train of thought out there like that it is coming from mischief makers and then projected onto us like the likes of you. Can you not tell the difference between Roscommon/Galway posters, obvious wums and actual Mayo posters. Catch a grip a stór tf.
A world cup rugby thread and Mayo posters start talking about Roscommon and Galway. Ballagh will get a mention yet. Sweet fu+k will they ever all fu@k off back to Bohola or Bonniconlon.
Quote from: Rudi on October 13, 2015, 09:44:55 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 13, 2015, 12:43:09 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 12, 2015, 11:13:38 PM
Would anybody on here not mention Australia or the semi, and get a grip, theres a quarter final to play and you take it one game at a time, if the players have the supporters attitude they are fucked. Its nearly like the Mayo bandwagon having a clean run to the all-lreland next year and disregarding the games in between. Ruddock a good player, Touhy will come for O`Connell. giving the hammering we taking up front i go for an additional pack player for Payne also
Will ye cop yerself on tf. If there is a train of thought out there like that it is coming from mischief makers and then projected onto us like the likes of you. Can you not tell the difference between Roscommon/Galway posters, obvious wums and actual Mayo posters. Catch a grip a stór tf.
A world cup rugby thread and Mayo posters start talking about Roscommon and Galway. Ballagh will get a mention yet. Sweet fu+k will they ever all fu@k off back to Bohola or Bonniconlon.
A rugby world cup thread and Rossie posters start talking about Bohola and Bonniconlon. ::)
Christ lads Touhy is no better!!
Second row is an area we have to develop more players
He's a bit better. You're right though, we've gone from the second row being a fairly deep position with Leo Cullen, Donnacha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell and others to now being fairly bare. Even Henderson and Ryan are probably back rows primarily. Dave Foley at Munster is not bad, but he's really a lineout operator.
What age is Foley? I suppose lads of 6'6 plus aren't exactly common in Ireland.
Any coming through in the last couple of strong U20 sides that we've had?
Why is there a delay in replacing Payne?
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 13, 2015, 10:18:25 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 13, 2015, 10:15:42 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 13, 2015, 12:57:18 AM
Mike McCarthy coming in for O'Connell apparently.
jaysus
Jaysus is right. Is Touhy not fit?
Touhy was not at the races in the few games Ire played prior to the World Cup - I suspect he is well down the pecking order at this stage - Mike Mc is not great either but he does bring a higher level of aggression than Touhy
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 10:26:54 AM
What age is Foley? I suppose lads of 6'6 plus aren't exactly common in Ireland.
Any coming through in the last couple of strong U20 sides that we've had?
Why is there a delay in replacing Payne?
I suppose JJ Hanrahan is still a year or two away from this level, but some prospect all the same.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 10:26:54 AM
What age is Foley? I suppose lads of 6'6 plus aren't exactly common in Ireland.
Any coming through in the last couple of strong U20 sides that we've had?
Why is there a delay in replacing Payne?
He's 27. another Tipp man. Made his debut in 2010 for Munster. He's had to serve his time behind O'Connell, O'Callaghan, and recently Donnacha Ryan. Anytime he's come in he's been solid enough, but he's not really international standard, yet at least.
Quote from: johnneycool on October 13, 2015, 10:29:57 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 10:26:54 AM
What age is Foley? I suppose lads of 6'6 plus aren't exactly common in Ireland.
Any coming through in the last couple of strong U20 sides that we've had?
Why is there a delay in replacing Payne?
I suppose JJ Hanrahan is still a year or two away from this level, but some prospect all the same.
JJ won't be mapped after moving to Northampton.
JS has no track record of selecting players playing abroad outside Sexton.
Quote from: johnneycool on October 13, 2015, 10:29:57 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 10:26:54 AM
What age is Foley? I suppose lads of 6'6 plus aren't exactly common in Ireland.
Any coming through in the last couple of strong U20 sides that we've had?
Why is there a delay in replacing Payne?
I suppose JJ Hanrahan is still a year or two away from this level, but some prospect all the same.
Not sure about JJ. He has talent, but his decision making is quite poor. I'd say that will obviously improve as he matures, and playing in England might help him. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as a centre long term, as opposed to a 10.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 13, 2015, 10:31:15 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on October 13, 2015, 10:29:57 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 10:26:54 AM
What age is Foley? I suppose lads of 6'6 plus aren't exactly common in Ireland.
Any coming through in the last couple of strong U20 sides that we've had?
Why is there a delay in replacing Payne?
I suppose JJ Hanrahan is still a year or two away from this level, but some prospect all the same.
JJ won't be mapped after moving to Northampton.
JS has no track record of selecting players playing abroad outside Sexton.
Which is ridiculous. And it's not just recently with JS either, it seems to be an IRFU policy. Don't pick them if they aren't under central contract. Leo Cullen didn't get as many games as he should, and Bob Casey and Trevor Brennan were probably discriminated against. Geordan Murphy is probably the one lad that has played a lot while being abroad, Sexton notwithstanding.
Maybe JJ will move back to Munster or Leinster when he gets a couple of years at Northampton. He'll still be young enough, if he's good enough.
Still have big hope for JJ. The move will make or break him.
It worked wonders for Tommy Bowe at Ospreys and with Jim Mallinder as his coach at Northampton he'll be working with one of the best in the business..
Saw few clips of Leinster recently. Ringrose seems to be going well. Imagine him and Henshaw as a midfield partnership down the line. Unreal.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 10:37:17 AM
Still have big hope for JJ. The move will make or break him.
It worked wonders for Tommy Bowe at Ospreys and with Jim Mallinder as his coach at Northampton he'll be working with one of the best in the business..
Saw few clips of Leinster recently. Ringrose seems to be going well. Imagine him and Henshaw as a midfield partnership down the line. Unreal.
Ringrose is a sublime talent. Leinster have moved heaven and earth to sign Henshaw in the last few months but Nucifora won't allow Ringrose and Henshaw to be at the same province.
Henshaw will end up at Munster next year.
I'd take that!! It's likely Munster's midfield will be two Kiwis this year.
Thats very interesting Indiana.
Is it not in the international teams interest to have both players at Leinster then??
They try to maximise game time, but that said I'd have thought they'd like a partnership at Leinster a lá BOD and D'Arcy.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 10:43:17 AM
Thats very interesting Indiana.
Is it not in the international teams interest to have both players at Leinster then??
Munster have no IQ centre bar Earls and he's probably more of a winger really.
I know they have hurley- I'm talking strictly international class here.
Nucifora wants the Australian model with a good spread of internationals across all 4 provinces eventually
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 13, 2015, 10:45:50 AM
They try to maximise game time, but that said I'd have thought they'd like a partnership at Leinster a lá BOD and D'Arcy.
For that point of view I think they are right at the IRFU. More young players should be encouraged to go to provinces where there is an apparent shortage in positions.
The last U20 panel was made up of about 60% Leinster players - the strong schools system gives the numbers.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 10:58:27 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 13, 2015, 10:45:50 AM
They try to maximise game time, but that said I'd have thought they'd like a partnership at Leinster a lá BOD and D'Arcy.
For that point of view I think they are right at the IRFU. More young players should be encouraged to go to provinces where there is an apparent shortage in positions.
The last U20 panel was made up of about 60% Leinster players - the strong schools system gives the numbers.
And yet Munster won the U20 and U19 interpros.
Jesus how does Indiana do it, he has the inside track on every sport in Ireland.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 10:58:27 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 13, 2015, 10:45:50 AM
They try to maximise game time, but that said I'd have thought they'd like a partnership at Leinster a lá BOD and D'Arcy.
For that point of view I think they are right at the IRFU. More young players should be encouraged to go to provinces where there is an apparent shortage in positions.
The last U20 panel was made up of about 60% Leinster players - the strong schools system gives the numbers.
The IRFU have done nothing. They are useless.
JS insisted on Nucifora being appointed otherwise he wouldn't take the job. The IRFU had to relent and a result he'd brought these changes in.
Lads at leinster in particular would prefer to play 2/3 Pro 12 games a year, quaffing champers in krystle and pretending to be rugby players rather then go to Connacht and be a real player.
I think the delay in announcing Payne's replacement is to see length if any of O Brien's suspension. Having 4 genuine backrowers ( Henderson with O Connell gone can really only be considered a 2nd row now as they unlikely to put Mc Carthy on bench) is very low with potentially 3 games left and it would make more sense to bulk up that area rather than at best a 5th choice centre.
Indeed alternatively I would also think that Isaac Boss will be seriously looked at as well now to replace Payne for the same reason that having a 3rd choice scrum half covers more bases ( late short term injury or going forward concussion or suspension to either scrumhalf) at this stage of the tournament that a 5th choice centre ( Henshaw. Earls , Fitzgerald , Cave and if Sexton fit even Madigan)
Quote from: Teeling Gael on October 13, 2015, 11:34:24 AM
I think the delay in announcing Payne's replacement is to see length if any of O Brien's suspension. Having 4 genuine backrowers ( Henderson with O Connell gone can really only be considered a 2nd row now as they unlikely to put Mc Carthy on bench) is very low with potentially 3 games left and it would make more sense to bulk up that area rather than at best a 5th choice centre.
Indeed alternatively I would also think that Isaac Boss will be seriously looked at as well now to replace Payne for the same reason that having a 3rd choice scrum half covers more bases ( late short term injury or going forward concussion or suspension to either scrumhalf) at this stage of the tournament that a 5th choice centre ( Henshaw. Earls , Fitzgerald , Cave and if Sexton fit even Madigan)
Is Marmion not ahead of Boss in the pecking order?
Quote from: screenexile on October 13, 2015, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: Teeling Gael on October 13, 2015, 11:34:24 AM
I think the delay in announcing Payne's replacement is to see length if any of O Brien's suspension. Having 4 genuine backrowers ( Henderson with O Connell gone can really only be considered a 2nd row now as they unlikely to put Mc Carthy on bench) is very low with potentially 3 games left and it would make more sense to bulk up that area rather than at best a 5th choice centre.
Indeed alternatively I would also think that Isaac Boss will be seriously looked at as well now to replace Payne for the same reason that having a 3rd choice scrum half covers more bases ( late short term injury or going forward concussion or suspension to either scrumhalf) at this stage of the tournament that a 5th choice centre ( Henshaw. Earls , Fitzgerald , Cave and if Sexton fit even Madigan)
Is Marmion not ahead of Boss in the pecking order?
He was SE but think his form dipped (young player still) and Cooney was starting more games at Connacht towards the end of last season.
Can any of the Leinster lads shed light on Luke McGraths development? I was really hoping he would challenge Murray over the next year or two. Did fat Matt stunt his development or is it a player issue?
Quote from: screenexile on October 13, 2015, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: Teeling Gael on October 13, 2015, 11:34:24 AM
I think the delay in announcing Payne's replacement is to see length if any of O Brien's suspension. Having 4 genuine backrowers ( Henderson with O Connell gone can really only be considered a 2nd row now as they unlikely to put Mc Carthy on bench) is very low with potentially 3 games left and it would make more sense to bulk up that area rather than at best a 5th choice centre.
Indeed alternatively I would also think that Isaac Boss will be seriously looked at as well now to replace Payne for the same reason that having a 3rd choice scrum half covers more bases ( late short term injury or going forward concussion or suspension to either scrumhalf) at this stage of the tournament that a 5th choice centre ( Henshaw. Earls , Fitzgerald , Cave and if Sexton fit even Madigan)
Is Marmion not ahead of Boss in the pecking order?
Horses for courses. With Sexton still doubtful then an injury to Murray/Madigan/Henshaw (or a combination) could leave you with a fairly light backline. If Paddy Jackson had to play he would need more than Reddan beside him. So I think that if Payne goes then both Boss and Trimble would be on Joe's mind. With Madigan now more critical cover for outhalf and centre, I think a scrum-half may yet be called for.
Also with back row issues I think McCarthy is ahead of Touhy as replacement for Paul O'Connell. Joe values versatility.
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 13, 2015, 11:42:15 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 13, 2015, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: Teeling Gael on October 13, 2015, 11:34:24 AM
I think the delay in announcing Payne's replacement is to see length if any of O Brien's suspension. Having 4 genuine backrowers ( Henderson with O Connell gone can really only be considered a 2nd row now as they unlikely to put Mc Carthy on bench) is very low with potentially 3 games left and it would make more sense to bulk up that area rather than at best a 5th choice centre.
Indeed alternatively I would also think that Isaac Boss will be seriously looked at as well now to replace Payne for the same reason that having a 3rd choice scrum half covers more bases ( late short term injury or going forward concussion or suspension to either scrumhalf) at this stage of the tournament that a 5th choice centre ( Henshaw. Earls , Fitzgerald , Cave and if Sexton fit even Madigan)
Is Marmion not ahead of Boss in the pecking order?
Horses for courses. With Sexton still doubtful then an injury to Murray/Madigan/Henshaw (or a combination) could leave you with a fairly light backline. If Paddy Jackson had to play he would need more than Reddan beside him. So I think that if Payne goes then both Boss and Trimble would be on Joe's mind. With Madigan now more critical cover for outhalf and centre, I think a scrum-half may yet be called for.
Also with back row issues I think McCarthy is ahead of Touhy as replacement for Paul O'Connell. Joe values versatility.
/Jim.
Not much of a statement given that McCarthy has already been called up as O'Connell's replacement ;)
Quote from: oakleaflad on October 13, 2015, 11:46:28 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 13, 2015, 11:42:15 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 13, 2015, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: Teeling Gael on October 13, 2015, 11:34:24 AM
I think the delay in announcing Payne's replacement is to see length if any of O Brien's suspension. Having 4 genuine backrowers ( Henderson with O Connell gone can really only be considered a 2nd row now as they unlikely to put Mc Carthy on bench) is very low with potentially 3 games left and it would make more sense to bulk up that area rather than at best a 5th choice centre.
Indeed alternatively I would also think that Isaac Boss will be seriously looked at as well now to replace Payne for the same reason that having a 3rd choice scrum half covers more bases ( late short term injury or going forward concussion or suspension to either scrumhalf) at this stage of the tournament that a 5th choice centre ( Henshaw. Earls , Fitzgerald , Cave and if Sexton fit even Madigan)
Is Marmion not ahead of Boss in the pecking order?
Horses for courses. With Sexton still doubtful then an injury to Murray/Madigan/Henshaw (or a combination) could leave you with a fairly light backline. If Paddy Jackson had to play he would need more than Reddan beside him. So I think that if Payne goes then both Boss and Trimble would be on Joe's mind. With Madigan now more critical cover for outhalf and centre, I think a scrum-half may yet be called for.
Also with back row issues I think McCarthy is ahead of Touhy as replacement for Paul O'Connell. Joe values versatility.
/Jim.
Not much of a statement given that McCarthy has already been called up as O'Connell's replacement ;)
I am quite confident that we can beat the French. Mark my words, it may come at a cost though. :D
Quote from: oakleaflad on October 13, 2015, 11:46:28 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 13, 2015, 11:42:15 AM
Quote from: screenexile on October 13, 2015, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: Teeling Gael on October 13, 2015, 11:34:24 AM
I think the delay in announcing Payne's replacement is to see length if any of O Brien's suspension. Having 4 genuine backrowers ( Henderson with O Connell gone can really only be considered a 2nd row now as they unlikely to put Mc Carthy on bench) is very low with potentially 3 games left and it would make more sense to bulk up that area rather than at best a 5th choice centre.
Indeed alternatively I would also think that Isaac Boss will be seriously looked at as well now to replace Payne for the same reason that having a 3rd choice scrum half covers more bases ( late short term injury or going forward concussion or suspension to either scrumhalf) at this stage of the tournament that a 5th choice centre ( Henshaw. Earls , Fitzgerald , Cave and if Sexton fit even Madigan)
Is Marmion not ahead of Boss in the pecking order?
Horses for courses. With Sexton still doubtful then an injury to Murray/Madigan/Henshaw (or a combination) could leave you with a fairly light backline. If Paddy Jackson had to play he would need more than Reddan beside him. So I think that if Payne goes then both Boss and Trimble would be on Joe's mind. With Madigan now more critical cover for outhalf and centre, I think a scrum-half may yet be called for.
Also with back row issues I think McCarthy is ahead of Touhy as replacement for Paul O'Connell. Joe values versatility.
/Jim.
Not much of a statement given that McCarthy has already been called up as O'Connell's replacement ;)
Apologies here was my first port of call ahead of paper.
/Jim.
A not very interesting fact, but O'Mahony's departure leaves just 4 Munster players on the squad. Now there are 18 Leinster players.
In the 2007 World Cup, of the team from 1-10, 9 were from Munster.
Question is then....why are Munster not producing the players?
Munster won the European cup in 2006 and 2008. Leinster have dominated Irish success since then. Not that surprising.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 01:26:56 PM
Question is then....why are Munster not producing the players?
The GAA gives all the money to Dublin 😄 Munster have always struggled to produce backs, outside the first 10. I think earls and zebo are very non Munster type backs.
In the forwards Munster are still producing decent players, and I think a lot of the close calls in this squad went to lads JS is more familiar with. Tommy O'Donnell, Jack O'Donoghue, James Cronin, and others have come through and been pretty solid. Young Holland may be a very good out half, and JJ as mentioned was a good product.
Leinster are miles ahead but hopefully the u19 and u20 wins last year are a sign the Munster academy is improving.
Such a pity about POC. Absolutely legendary player. Hopefully it can motivate the players to do something special this month.
I don't know much about the ins and outs of Rugby disciplinary panels but does this change anything in O'Brien's favour??
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRL-uQRWEAAa01j.jpg)
Can't see it playing any part as a mitigating factor.
It should be a 1 game ban but I think any more is harsh.
Hooper got a 1 game ban for near taking the head off Sanchez in the 4 Nations. Then he got cited against England. SOB has a very clean record.
http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/15175/9932523/hoopers-one-week-ban-has-been-confirmed-after-unsuccessful-sanzar-appeal
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 13, 2015, 01:28:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 01:26:56 PM
Question is then....why are Munster not producing the players?
The GAA gives all the money to Dublin 😄 Munster have always struggled to produce backs, outside the first 10. I think earls and zebo are very non Munster type backs.
In the forwards Munster are still producing decent players, and I think a lot of the close calls in this squad went to lads JS is more familiar with. Tommy O'Donnell, Jack O'Donoghue, James Cronin, and others have come through and been pretty solid. Young Holland may be a very good out half, and JJ as mentioned was a good product.
Leinster are miles ahead but hopefully the u19 and u20 wins last year are a sign the Munster academy is improving.
They weren't producing due to
A. Declan Kidney
B. The decline of the AIL
C. Leinster really working and developing it's structures of the 4 main under-age inter-pros 18s club 18s schools 19s and 20s, Leinster would expect to win at least 3 every year.
However McGahan and Penney really worked hard at improving Academy structures and they are now starting to produce. I would not have confidence in Foley to build on this, not convinced by him at all and less convinced by Cullen and Doak.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 13, 2015, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 13, 2015, 01:28:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 01:26:56 PM
Question is then....why are Munster not producing the players?
The GAA gives all the money to Dublin 😄 Munster have always struggled to produce backs, outside the first 10. I think earls and zebo are very non Munster type backs.
In the forwards Munster are still producing decent players, and I think a lot of the close calls in this squad went to lads JS is more familiar with. Tommy O'Donnell, Jack O'Donoghue, James Cronin, and others have come through and been pretty solid. Young Holland may be a very good out half, and JJ as mentioned was a good product.
Leinster are miles ahead but hopefully the u19 and u20 wins last year are a sign the Munster academy is improving.
They weren't producing due to
A. Declan Kidney
B. The decline of the AIL
C. Leinster really working and developing it's structures of the 4 main under-age inter-pros 18s club 18s schools 19s and 20s, Leinster would expect to win at least 3 every year.
However McGahan and Penney really worked hard at improving Academy structures and they are now starting to produce. I would not have confidence in Foley to build on this, not convinced by him at all and less convinced by Cullen and Doak.
Les Kiss is heading to Ulster post RWC so hopefully that should help things.
I think the F5 on my keyboard is about to break waiting for the news on O'Brien. . . 3hrs 20mins at this stage.
I would have thought these things are fairly clear cut. He struck out with an open hand 1 match ban and on you go!!
Obviously not!!
2 weeks reduced to 1 for good behaviour. Get through the argentines now!
There is a silver lining in this, in that O'Brien should be 100% flying fit for Aus (when it happens, and yes I am that confident), a game which has the makings of the toughest possible challenge for a back row forward.
After the abuse he put himself through on Sunday, I don't think any man could do that 3 weeks in a row.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 13, 2015, 09:01:30 PM
There is a silver lining in this, in that O'Brien should be 100% flying fit for Aus (when it happens, and yes I am that confident), a game which has the makings of the toughest possible challenge for a back row forward.
After the abuse he put himself through on Sunday, I don't think any man could do that 3 weeks in a row.
Agree, agree, agree!
Full of confidence for this team.
Great team - too many big players out now. Will struggle from here on.
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 09:47:07 PM
Great team - too many big players out now. Will struggle from here on.
Well kid, it does tend to tighten the closer ye get to the finale does it not?
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:12:29 PM
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
I'd have Argentina ahead of France. My money is on the South Americans this weekend. About £2 though.
Go each way and cover that
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:12:29 PM
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
Agreed. The game this weekend fills me full of fear. Will be a brutal affair in the pack. OBrien is built for games like these. A big loss
Could have been worse. Think a ban deserved and one match seems reasonable. Hope he doesn't end up living to regret it.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 13, 2015, 09:01:30 PM
There is a silver lining in this, in that O'Brien should be 100% flying fit for Aus (when it happens, and yes I am that confident), a game which has the makings of the toughest possible challenge for a back row forward.
After the abuse he put himself through on Sunday, I don't think any man could do that 3 weeks in a row.
Good point.
Going in without O Mahoney as well is not ideal to say the least.
It is interesting also that the coach was planning for Henderson as impact at 6 for French game but had to change tack after O Connell injury. Now Henderson will have to start. If Ryan was right then you would expect him to start with Henderson going to 6 and Henry at 7. But things are getting a bit stretched. The top teams are using the bench to kill off teams a rung down but apart from the front row will we have the quality now from the bench?
Any update on the Sexton injury? hard to see how a groin injury can be sorted enough that he can go and kick the ball confidently in a week, if at all. Ye can run a bit ( not necessarily sprint), with a dodgy groin but kicking?! V France it looked like Sexton picked up that injury in the first event tbh.
Give Joe some fecking credit lads... If you think that the management come to a tournament without thinking they will have injuries is mental... The players are professionals they have just been given a chance to get to the final... Ireland are better than Wales and a depleted Wales had good opportunities against the Aussies..... Bookies very rarely get it wrong... Won't be much in it and Ireland are not afraid of meeting Argentina or Australia ....
All those players have been hearing up for these games... 6 nation champions twice recently... They know how to close out games... Ireland just need to take their chance when it comes, and hope Earls doesn't drop the ball this time
Argentina have a young pack bar 1 or 2 so don't be expecting a ferocious forward battle. They have some very exciting backs who are real steppers. I'm still confident Heaslip, Henry and Murphy/Henderson can do a great job in the back row.
Any word on Bosch getting cited for Argentina?
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2015, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:12:29 PM
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
I'd have Argentina ahead of France. My money is on the South Americans this weekend. About £2 though.
Don't see where this Argentina love is coming from. Two wins in 21 Quad-Nations games. We have a far better record against the very same teams.
Bosch banned for a week also. Big loss for Argentina!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2015, 11:06:32 PM
Give Joe some fecking credit lads... If you think that the management come to a tournament without thinking they will have injuries is mental... The players are professionals they have just been given a chance to get to the final... Ireland are better than Wales and a depleted Wales had good opportunities against the Aussies..... Bookies very rarely get it wrong... Won't be much in it and Ireland are not afraid of meeting Argentina or Australia ....
All those players have been hearing up for these games... 6 nation champions twice recently... They know how to close out games... Ireland just need to take their chance when it comes, and hope Earls doesn't drop the ball this time
Agree, but ye need to get 'lucky' with injuries to push on. When England won it I can t remember them losing big players. Would they have coped without Johnson, Hill and Wilkinson? Still competitive yeah - but win? Of course Joe will have factored in injuries but would also have been hoping that these catastrophic injuries to engine room players would not happen. Need a bit of luck along the way. Performance the last day showed that pretty much everything had been thoroughly thought through.
Quote from: moysider on October 13, 2015, 11:23:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2015, 11:06:32 PM
Give Joe some fecking credit lads... If you think that the management come to a tournament without thinking they will have injuries is mental... The players are professionals they have just been given a chance to get to the final... Ireland are better than Wales and a depleted Wales had good opportunities against the Aussies..... Bookies very rarely get it wrong... Won't be much in it and Ireland are not afraid of meeting Argentina or Australia ....
All those players have been hearing up for these games... 6 nation champions twice recently... They know how to close out games... Ireland just need to take their chance when it comes, and hope Earls doesn't drop the ball this time
Agree, but ye need to get 'lucky' with injuries to push on. When England won it I can t remember them losing big players. Would they have coped without Johnson, Hill and Wilkinson? Still competitive yeah - but win? Of course Joe will have factored in injuries but would also have been hoping that these catastrophic injuries to engine room players would not happen. Need a bit of luck along the way. Performance the last day showed that pretty much everything had been thoroughly thought through.
Agreed luck plays a big part and having a panel that is able to push every position... Wales showed how with injuries that they could use it for them... They managed to have players fit in time for the Aussie game and nearly pulled off a win had things panned out... Don't think they are done either.... One or two shocks left yet.... Hopefully Argentina don't pull one
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 13, 2015, 11:20:16 PM
Bosch banned for a week also. Big loss for Argentina!
Massive loss and they are not as deep as us.
We got this, chill baby chill )
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2015, 11:29:55 PM
Quote from: moysider on October 13, 2015, 11:23:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2015, 11:06:32 PM
Give Joe some fecking credit lads... If you think that the management come to a tournament without thinking they will have injuries is mental... The players are professionals they have just been given a chance to get to the final... Ireland are better than Wales and a depleted Wales had good opportunities against the Aussies..... Bookies very rarely get it wrong... Won't be much in it and Ireland are not afraid of meeting Argentina or Australia ....
All those players have been hearing up for these games... 6 nation champions twice recently... They know how to close out games... Ireland just need to take their chance when it comes, and hope Earls doesn't drop the ball this time
Agree, but ye need to get 'lucky' with injuries to push on. When England won it I can t remember them losing big players. Would they have coped without Johnson, Hill and Wilkinson? Still competitive yeah - but win? Of course Joe will have factored in injuries but would also have been hoping that these catastrophic injuries to engine room players would not happen. Need a bit of luck along the way. Performance the last day showed that pretty much everything had been thoroughly thought through.
Agreed luck plays a big part and having a panel that is able to push every position... Wales showed how with injuries that they could use it for them... They managed to have players fit in time for the Aussie game and nearly pulled off a win had things panned out... Don't think they are done either.... One or two shocks left yet.... Hopefully Argentina don't pull one
Yeah. Our resources to push every position may be diluted a bit but every team is going to start hurting because this is savage stuff. A poster earlier said that this sport is not sustainable. When you see warriors like O Connell sucking on Oxygen/ gas and air and O Mahoney crumbled it is .......... savage and brilliant at the same time but you d have to wonder about the long term implications of what these players do. Apart from Scotland winning though is there a shock left. Argentina would not be a shock. Some posters here expect them to win. I expect we will beat Argentina if we manage the game. Madigan may well have the responsibility to do a lot of the managing and kick the penalties. It will probably come down to kicking the goals.
Madigan is liable to have a brain fart
got away with one or two last Sunday
the Argies have been improving, especially playing NZ, Aus and SA regularly
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 14, 2015, 12:10:26 AM
Madigan is liable to have a brain fart
got away with one or two last Sunday
the Argies have been improving, especially playing NZ, Aus and SA regularly
Yeah. But Sexton shanked an up and under off the side of his boot and picked up injury trying to make a recovering tackle after that kick gave French an attacking opportunity. Ye never know. This could be the making of Madigan.
At the end of the day we re only supporters. At half time the last day Joe Schmidt knew the implications of the injuries. He would
have been half expecting that Sexton would be a casualty along the way (everybody was). Madigan did well overall in fairness. They ve a week now to sort him as the main man ( that's not fair - he was already primed to step in the last day).
Madigan is more than good enough to give Argentina their fill.
Quote from: moysider on October 14, 2015, 01:04:20 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 14, 2015, 12:10:26 AM
Madigan is liable to have a brain fart
got away with one or two last Sunday
the Argies have been improving, especially playing NZ, Aus and SA regularly
Yeah. But Sexton shanked an up and under off the side of his boot and picked up injury trying to make a recovering tackle after that kick gave French an attacking opportunity. Ye never know. This could be the making of Madigan.
At the end of the day we re only supporters. At half time the last day Joe Schmidt knew the implications of the injuries. He would
have been half expecting that Sexton would be a casualty along the way (everybody was). Madigan did well overall in fairness. They ve a week now to sort him as the main man ( that's not fair - he was already primed to step in the last day).
I though the injury might have happened during that screwed up kick?[/list]
Quote from: muppet on October 14, 2015, 06:49:21 AM
Quote from: moysider on October 14, 2015, 01:04:20 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 14, 2015, 12:10:26 AM
Madigan is liable to have a brain fart
got away with one or two last Sunday
the Argies have been improving, especially playing NZ, Aus and SA regularly
Yeah. But Sexton shanked an up and under off the side of his boot and picked up injury trying to make a recovering tackle after that kick gave French an attacking opportunity. Ye never know. This could be the making of Madigan.
At the end of the day we re only supporters. At half time the last day Joe Schmidt knew the implications of the injuries. He would
have been half expecting that Sexton would be a casualty along the way (everybody was). Madigan did well overall in fairness. They ve a week now to sort him as the main man ( that's not fair - he was already primed to step in the last day).
I though the injury might have happened during that screwed up kick?[/list]
I thought that too, although he played on for a while until crunched by Pape a few minutes later.
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
There are not too many number 10's around that wouldnt have crumpled under that hit from Picamoles so there is no disgrace in that. He was definitely carrying the injury prior this happening anyway so that probably made him a bit of a sitting duck.
Will be some turn around to have any sort of groin tweak recovered in 7 days to play at this kind of level. I would have thought if possible to keep him in reserve and try to get past Argentina without him giving him an extra weeks recovery, but this is a big risk strategy too.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
He was concussed that's why he puked. Be under no illusions about that.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 10:30:47 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
He was concussed that's why he puked. Be under no illusions about that.
Yeah that seem to be in and why the medics made the call. Personally I'd rest him unless he's 100. With a groin strain thats unlikely. Madigan deserves his chance.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 10:30:47 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
He was concussed that's why he puked. Be under no illusions about that.
Yeah that seem to be in and why the medics made the call. Personally I'd rest him unless he's 100. With a groin strain thats unlikely. Madigan deserves his chance.
If he was concussed, he shouldn't play this weekend. Too soon.
Given the number of concussions Sexton has sustained in recent times he would most probably be ruled out for the remainder of the tournament if that was the reason for taking him off. This may be why a groin strain is being cited as the reason for his withdrawl. To return from a groin injury within a week especially as a kicker seems optimistic otherwise.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 10:43:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 10:30:47 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
He was concussed that's why he puked. Be under no illusions about that.
Yeah that seem to be in and why the medics made the call. Personally I'd rest him unless he's 100. With a groin strain thats unlikely. Madigan deserves his chance.
If he was concussed, he shouldn't play this weekend. Too soon.
Agreed but don't think the Irish Camp are above bending the concussion rules. The medical staff will rule him out . Others may not.
Rugby in ten years will be at the same stage as the NFL with medical claims in this area.
Professional sport tends to blur the lines where injuries don't have obvious physical symptoms.
A groin tweak won't recover in 7 days he won't be able to play without Cortisone
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 10:30:47 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
He was concussed that's why he puked. Be under no illusions about that.
Yeah that seem to be in and why the medics made the call. Personally I'd rest him unless he's 100. With a groin strain thats unlikely. Madigan deserves his chance.
Prior to Sunday I too would have shit a brick if told Madigan would be the starting outhalf, but I have to say he impressed me no end against the French. Yes he's a bit wayward, but he's skillfull, looks to have better hands than Sexton and good at creating space for the others.
Hopefully he's as good and a bit more consistent this Sunday if he gets the start.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 11:01:30 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 10:43:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 10:30:47 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
He was concussed that's why he puked. Be under no illusions about that.
Yeah that seem to be in and why the medics made the call. Personally I'd rest him unless he's 100. With a groin strain thats unlikely. Madigan deserves his chance.
If he was concussed, he shouldn't play this weekend. Too soon.
Agreed but don't think the Irish Camp are above bending the concussion rules. The medical staff will rule him out . Others may not.
Rugby in ten years will be at the same stage as the NFL with medical claims in this area.
Professional sport tends to blur the lines where injuries don't have obvious physical symptoms.
A groin tweak won't recover in 7 days he won't be able to play without Cortisone
That wasn't an argument, it was a statement. If he was, indeed, concussed then he shouldn't play this weekend. I didn't realise he was concussed.
As for groin tweak, I suppose it depends how severe it is, but I'd guess he would play with a shot alright. Another that may do more harm in the long run, but at least with a groin you could see the possibility. The brain is a different story.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 11:01:30 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 10:43:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 10:30:47 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
He was concussed that's why he puked. Be under no illusions about that.
Yeah that seem to be in and why the medics made the call. Personally I'd rest him unless he's 100. With a groin strain thats unlikely. Madigan deserves his chance.
If he was concussed, he shouldn't play this weekend. Too soon.
Agreed but don't think the Irish Camp are above bending the concussion rules. The medical staff will rule him out . Others may not.
Rugby in ten years will be at the same stage as the NFL with medical claims in this area.
Professional sport tends to blur the lines where injuries don't have obvious physical symptoms.
A groin tweak won't recover in 7 days he won't be able to play without Cortisone
Was about to say, the good ole cortisone injection would surely come in to play.
As for the concussion, if he hasn't properly recovered, then the medical staff should have the call on whether he's fit to play or not as no doubt Sexton himself will want to play and I'm sure Schmidt would want him there too.
Too big of a risk if he takes another clatter and you can be sure the Pumas will target him again.
Quote from: johnneycool on October 14, 2015, 11:02:02 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 10:30:47 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
He was concussed that's why he puked. Be under no illusions about that.
Yeah that seem to be in and why the medics made the call. Personally I'd rest him unless he's 100. With a groin strain thats unlikely. Madigan deserves his chance.
Prior to Sunday I too would have shit a brick if told Madigan would be the starting outhalf, but I have to say he impressed me no end against the French. Yes he's a bit wayward, but he's skillfull, looks to have better hands than Sexton and good at creating space for the others.
Hopefully he's as good and a bit more consistent this Sunday if he gets the start.
He's not a game manager and knockout rugby is all about game management.
Excellent goal kicker and a good passer but he's totally inexperienced for this on Sunday.
We played against a French side that never had the ball and when they did never switched the point of attack. I think he will be targeted when they have the ball
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 11:01:30 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 10:43:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 10:30:47 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 09:14:53 AM
Apparently the injury that had him in doubt is the groin, which apparently he tweaked in that kick. The Picamoles hit (not Pape I think) made dust of him (he puked on the pitch) but it was the groin that was troubling him.
He was concussed that's why he puked. Be under no illusions about that.
Yeah that seem to be in and why the medics made the call. Personally I'd rest him unless he's 100. With a groin strain thats unlikely. Madigan deserves his chance.
If he was concussed, he shouldn't play this weekend. Too soon.
Agreed but don't think the Irish Camp are above bending the concussion rules. The medical staff will rule him out . Others may not.
Rugby in ten years will be at the same stage as the NFL with medical claims in this area.
Professional sport tends to blur the lines where injuries don't have obvious physical symptoms.
A groin tweak won't recover in 7 days he won't be able to play without Cortisone
That wasn't an argument, it was a statement. If he was, indeed, concussed then he shouldn't play this weekend. I didn't realise he was concussed.
As for groin tweak, I suppose it depends how severe it is, but I'd guess he would play with a shot alright. Another that may do more harm in the long run, but at least with a groin you could see the possibility. The brain is a different story.
The Medical staff will rule him out but you'd be surprised the lengths players will go to ensure they play.
You don't have to hit your head to get concussed either. That tackle from Picamoles was severe. Big brute who lined him up.
I think his groin went when he sliced that kick before that tackle.
One week ban for O'Brien. Lucky lad. Now to beat the Pumas.
Quote from: Syferus on October 13, 2015, 11:13:47 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2015, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:12:29 PM
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
I'd have Argentina ahead of France. My money is on the South Americans this weekend. About £2 though.
Don't see where this Argentina love is coming from. Two wins in 21 Quad-Nations games. We have a far better record against the very same teams.
100% agree with this, Argentina are good and could win but to be building them up as clear favourites as some are here is nonsense. As you pointed out people are focusing on that win against SA but conveniently forgetting 18 of the other 20 matches in the Rugby Championship were they got beat. Rankings, recent head to head, recent form all points to Ireland. If we play well even with all the injuries we will win. If we dont turn up then yes we could be in for a scare.
You'll always get negative people - especially in ireland. Frig sake believe lads. I have never experienced anything like last Sunday in my life. If that passion is brought to the table once again we'll win. No question!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 11:41:15 AM
You'll always get negative people - especially in ireland. Frig sake believe lads. I have never experienced anything like last Sunday in my life. If that passion is brought to the table once again we'll win. No question!
Except amongst the rugby support. From what I am hearing this game to them "is in the bag" and they are sourcing tickets and accomodation for the semi final. Echoes of Wales game in 2011 imo.
For whatever reason, this country (and alot of counties in it) do not handle favouritism well.
Quote from: Canalman on October 14, 2015, 11:58:05 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 11:41:15 AM
You'll always get negative people - especially in ireland. Frig sake believe lads. I have never experienced anything like last Sunday in my life. If that passion is brought to the table once again we'll win. No question!
Except amongst the rugby support. From what I am hearing this game to them "is in the bag" and they are sourcing tickets and accommodation for the semi final. Echoes of Wales game in 2011 imo.
For whatever reason, this country (and alot of counties in it) do not handle favouritism well.
Whats with the them?? I've played rugby and GAA all my life and I don't come from a privileged background. Trust me any one who was in Cardiff last weekend that it was full of ordinary people over to support their country. In fact it was full of absolute head the balls from every county you can imagine! The days of the wealthy D4 heads is over lads!
He never said anything about D4 Walter. He said the 'rugby support'.
WC, think you picked me up there wrong.
Quote from: Canalman on October 14, 2015, 11:58:05 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 11:41:15 AM
You'll always get negative people - especially in ireland. Frig sake believe lads. I have never experienced anything like last Sunday in my life. If that passion is brought to the table once again we'll win. No question!
Except amongst the rugby support. From what I am hearing this game to them "is in the bag" and they are sourcing tickets and accomodation for the semi final. Echoes of Wales game in 2011 imo.
For whatever reason, this country (and alot of counties in it) do not handle favouritism well.
this is what you have to do though in a tournament like this. You look for tix and hotels further down the line ,then cancel if needed. That's the way it works. This gets spread around as cockiness and folk jump on it. You just try your best to book the hotel for the correct weekend though :-)
Re the game, it's far from 'in the bag', any sane person appreciates that. Its the quarter final. Outside of Scotland, any side we could have faced will be tough to, well very tough
Apologies CM. Reading back I must have picked you up wrong.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 14, 2015, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 13, 2015, 11:13:47 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2015, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:12:29 PM
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
I'd have Argentina ahead of France. My money is on the South Americans this weekend. About £2 though.
Don't see where this Argentina love is coming from. Two wins in 21 Quad-Nations games. We have a far better record against the very same teams.
100% agree with this, Argentina are good and could win but to be building them up as clear favourites as some are here is nonsense. As you pointed out people are focusing on that win against SA but conveniently forgetting 18 of the other 20 matches in the Rugby Championship were they got beat. Rankings, recent head to head, recent form all points to Ireland. If we play well even with all the injuries we will win. If we dont turn up then yes we could be in for a scare.
Wow
Just to fill you in . Argentina play better teams then we do on an annual basis .
Italy and Scotland are crap . England and France not far behind
Leaving Wales ( who we couldn't beat twice this year )
The ignorance on Argentina is extraordinary . They play the best three sides in the world every year twice . They spent one year playing them where their European players weren't released . So discount that year
They have had some sublime u20 sides recently and have players playing for Toulon , Saracens and Racing Metro. They are so under the radar for this game it's hard to believe
They beat France in Paris last November easily . Sanchez , Hernandez , lobbe , Cordova and Imoff - world class players
I'd be wary
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 14, 2015, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 13, 2015, 11:13:47 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2015, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:12:29 PM
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
I'd have Argentina ahead of France. My money is on the South Americans this weekend. About £2 though.
Don't see where this Argentina love is coming from. Two wins in 21 Quad-Nations games. We have a far better record against the very same teams.
100% agree with this, Argentina are good and could win but to be building them up as clear favourites as some are here is nonsense. As you pointed out people are focusing on that win against SA but conveniently forgetting 18 of the other 20 matches in the Rugby Championship were they got beat. Rankings, recent head to head, recent form all points to Ireland. If we play well even with all the injuries we will win. If we dont turn up then yes we could be in for a scare.
Wow
Just to fill you in . Argentina play better teams then we do on an annual basis .
Italy and Scotland are crap . England and France not far behind
Leaving Wales ( who we couldn't beat twice this year )
The ignorance on Argentina is extraordinary . They play the best three sides in the world every year twice . They spent one year playing them where their European players weren't released . So discount that year
They have had some sublime u20 sides recently and have players playing for Toulon , Saracens and Racing Metro. They are so under the radar for this game it's hard to believe
They beat France in Paris last November easily . Sanchez , Hernandez , lobbe , Cordova and Imoff - world class players
I'd be wary
Nobody is taking them for granted, especially with the injuries we have, but better them than the Aussies or the All Blacks.
Exactly. I don't know anyone that thinks we're going to piss all over them, but I'd play them every time before New Zealand or Australia. Argentina have given us our bellyful of it almost every time we've played them, but I still think that if the Irish lads perform at their best, we will beat Argentina. If we don't, then all bets are off.
Nobody is taking them for granted at all but Indiana seems an opportunity of "I told you so" and he is going for it. He done it all year with Dublin and it never happened.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 14, 2015, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 13, 2015, 11:13:47 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2015, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:12:29 PM
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
I'd have Argentina ahead of France. My money is on the South Americans this weekend. About £2 though.
Don't see where this Argentina love is coming from. Two wins in 21 Quad-Nations games. We have a far better record against the very same teams.
100% agree with this, Argentina are good and could win but to be building them up as clear favourites as some are here is nonsense. As you pointed out people are focusing on that win against SA but conveniently forgetting 18 of the other 20 matches in the Rugby Championship were they got beat. Rankings, recent head to head, recent form all points to Ireland. If we play well even with all the injuries we will win. If we dont turn up then yes we could be in for a scare.
Wow
Just to fill you in . Argentina play better teams then we do on an annual basis .
Italy and Scotland are crap . England and France not far behind
Leaving Wales ( who we couldn't beat twice this year )
The ignorance on Argentina is extraordinary . They play the best three sides in the world every year twice . They spent one year playing them where their European players weren't released . So discount that year
They have had some sublime u20 sides recently and have players playing for Toulon , Saracens and Racing Metro. They are so under the radar for this game it's hard to believe
They beat France in Paris last November easily . Sanchez , Hernandez , lobbe , Cordova and Imoff - world class players
I'd be wary
Wow, just to fill you in. Ireland also beat SA and Australia almost every time they come to the northern hemisphere these days too.
Maybe, just maybe, you could try evaluating Ireland by the same criteria as you do Argentina, and you might just come to the same conclusion as the bookies: that Ireland should win by a narrow margin.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 14, 2015, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 13, 2015, 11:13:47 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2015, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:12:29 PM
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
I'd have Argentina ahead of France. My money is on the South Americans this weekend. About £2 though.
Don't see where this Argentina love is coming from. Two wins in 21 Quad-Nations games. We have a far better record against the very same teams.
100% agree with this, Argentina are good and could win but to be building them up as clear favourites as some are here is nonsense. As you pointed out people are focusing on that win against SA but conveniently forgetting 18 of the other 20 matches in the Rugby Championship were they got beat. Rankings, recent head to head, recent form all points to Ireland. If we play well even with all the injuries we will win. If we dont turn up then yes we could be in for a scare.
Wow
Just to fill you in . Argentina play better teams then we do on an annual basis .
Italy and Scotland are crap . England and France not far behind
Leaving Wales ( who we couldn't beat twice this year )
The ignorance on Argentina is extraordinary . They play the best three sides in the world every year twice . They spent one year playing them where their European players weren't released . So discount that year
They have had some sublime u20 sides recently and have players playing for Toulon , Saracens and Racing Metro. They are so under the radar for this game it's hard to believe
They beat France in Paris last November easily . Sanchez , Hernandez , lobbe , Cordova and Imoff - world class players
I'd be wary
Jeez I think we are doing pretty decent in this area ourselves? England, NZ and SA dominate this age group due to sheer size alone.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 02:15:30 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 14, 2015, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 13, 2015, 11:13:47 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2015, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:12:29 PM
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
I'd have Argentina ahead of France. My money is on the South Americans this weekend. About £2 though.
Don't see where this Argentina love is coming from. Two wins in 21 Quad-Nations games. We have a far better record against the very same teams.
100% agree with this, Argentina are good and could win but to be building them up as clear favourites as some are here is nonsense. As you pointed out people are focusing on that win against SA but conveniently forgetting 18 of the other 20 matches in the Rugby Championship were they got beat. Rankings, recent head to head, recent form all points to Ireland. If we play well even with all the injuries we will win. If we dont turn up then yes we could be in for a scare.
Wow
Just to fill you in . Argentina play better teams then we do on an annual basis .
Italy and Scotland are crap . England and France not far behind
Leaving Wales ( who we couldn't beat twice this year )
The ignorance on Argentina is extraordinary . They play the best three sides in the world every year twice . They spent one year playing them where their European players weren't released . So discount that year
They have had some sublime u20 sides recently and have players playing for Toulon , Saracens and Racing Metro. They are so under the radar for this game it's hard to believe
They beat France in Paris last November easily . Sanchez , Hernandez , lobbe , Cordova and Imoff - world class players
I'd be wary
Jeez I think we are doing pretty decent in this area ourselves? England, NZ and SA dominate this age group due to sheer size alone.
NZ dominate because they are best . Our u20s on average by the way are not any smaller . We've nobody starting off our u20 sides bar Henderson and furlong in the extended squad . We wait too long to blood players in my view
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 02:17:45 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 14, 2015, 02:15:30 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 14, 2015, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 14, 2015, 11:36:28 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 13, 2015, 11:13:47 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2015, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:12:29 PM
Well picked up..I wouldn't rate Argentina at French levels stew, yet i am convinced that we won't get past them by more than a couple of points if at all.
I'd have Argentina ahead of France. My money is on the South Americans this weekend. About £2 though.
Don't see where this Argentina love is coming from. Two wins in 21 Quad-Nations games. We have a far better record against the very same teams.
100% agree with this, Argentina are good and could win but to be building them up as clear favourites as some are here is nonsense. As you pointed out people are focusing on that win against SA but conveniently forgetting 18 of the other 20 matches in the Rugby Championship were they got beat. Rankings, recent head to head, recent form all points to Ireland. If we play well even with all the injuries we will win. If we dont turn up then yes we could be in for a scare.
Wow
Just to fill you in . Argentina play better teams then we do on an annual basis .
Italy and Scotland are crap . England and France not far behind
Leaving Wales ( who we couldn't beat twice this year )
The ignorance on Argentina is extraordinary . They play the best three sides in the world every year twice . They spent one year playing them where their European players weren't released . So discount that year
They have had some sublime u20 sides recently and have players playing for Toulon , Saracens and Racing Metro. They are so under the radar for this game it's hard to believe
They beat France in Paris last November easily . Sanchez , Hernandez , lobbe , Cordova and Imoff - world class players
I'd be wary
Jeez I think we are doing pretty decent in this area ourselves? England, NZ and SA dominate this age group due to sheer size alone.
NZ dominate because they are best . Our u20s on average by the way are not any smaller . We've nobody starting off our u20 sides bar Henderson and furlong in the extended squad . We wait too long to blood players in my view
Agree in terms of not blooding players - Luke McGrath is a bug bearer of mine.
England have won the last two U20 championships and bar Maro Itoje havent had anyone in their extended squad.
Handre Pollard, Ian Henderson and Robbie Henshaw are big for their age.
A junior world cup like senior comes down to panel. England, SA and NZ have the panel at this age group and can take the injuries. We cant. Simple.
IRFU would save a lot of money by letting some promising young players off to France and England to develop
it might also develop a different sort of player - ie a different skillset, cause so many of the Irish players have poor offloading and line break skills
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 14, 2015, 02:45:16 PM
IRFU would save a lot of money by letting some promising young players off to France and England to develop
it might also develop a different sort of player - ie a different skillset, cause so many of the Irish players have poor offloading and line break skills
Not sure I agree with that. In France or England, you 'd be developed into a big bruiser, crash bang wallop recycle.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 14, 2015, 02:45:16 PM
IRFU would save a lot of money by letting some promising young players off to France and England to develop
it might also develop a different sort of player - ie a different skillset, cause so many of the Irish players have poor offloading and line break skills
Depends what club you go to I suppose. Going to Bath wouldn't be a bad move to improve your skills or even Harlequins try to play a decent running game but the likes of Saracens/Northampton/Leicester are fond of running over the top of men.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 02:56:39 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 14, 2015, 02:45:16 PM
IRFU would save a lot of money by letting some promising young players off to France and England to develop
it might also develop a different sort of player - ie a different skillset, cause so many of the Irish players have poor offloading and line break skills
Not sure I agree with that. In France or England, you 'd be developed into a big bruiser, crash bang wallop recycle.
I wouldnt personally caricature them all with the same brush.
Toulon, Clermont and Toulouse play sublime rugby and muller our provincial teams practically every year.
Bath, Harlequins and Wasps in England play excellent rugby.
The French national side has been trained by a wally for the last 4 years. Guy Noves who trained Toulouse for 17 years will take over after NZ tank them on Saturday. I'd put money on France now to win the 6 Nations when he brings them back to their values
England were playing excellent rugby until Lancaster threw a wobbler and started listening to Farrell and Rountree and picked Farrell Jnr at 10. Left Burrell at home- picked Burgess at centre and moved Barritt to 13.
(Robbed from FB)
An Englishman walks into a bar....
There should have been and Irishman, Scotsman and a Welshman there, but they're all at the World Cup.
Powerful stuff from James O'Connor:
A lot of things ran through my mind when contemplating releasing this to the public eye. The first thoughts that came were of the reception that I would receive and whether these comments would be seen as taking away from the extraordinary world cup performances of the Wallabies. I would like to make it clear to all who read this that the intention behind this letter is not to detract, but to support and finally set a precedent where it is not alright for former players and game commentators to incessantly deride current players for the on and off field mistakes.
I would like to acknowledge a video that I made that may have been a catalyst for Greg Martin's stinging remarks. I made this video in response to what I felt was unfair commentary toward the Wallaby team and their current world cup campaign. I would also like to make it clear that the video was made with light hearted intentions with the serious message that Greg Martin needed to support, and not put down the players giving their all on the field. How is ridiculing the players' going to help us bring home the cup? Isn't that what we all want?
I have learned to accept that criticism is part of the game. It's something that I have learned to accept and deal with, without it affecting the way I perform. I have chosen over my career to not give credence to such criticisms however it has evolved into something that is not only a personal attack but is detrimental to the game itself, and under these circumstances I feel like my voice needs to be heard.
Greg's words no longer pertain to just myself, and my reasons for responding is not just to protect my image but the well being of players that have yet to experience the insults and degradation from people like Greg.
Greg did not say these comments while I was present, he offered me no chance to respond and frankly from the position I stand he does not care. He has no interest in the truth; he has no interest in finding the real story. Greg's interest is his own opinion and making his own headlines, with no consideration to whom he drags through the mud.
In this statement, I will not insult Greg, I will not ridicule or abuse him, but I will seek to destroy the rationale and ignorance that forms the basis of his arguments.
Greg Martin cited a correlation between the current performance of the Australian side, and the fact that I was no longer in it. There can be no other interpretation than to say that I, singularly, am responsible for perceived poor performance and attitude among an entire squad of no less than thirty individuals and an extensive coaching and support team. I do not need to remind any Australian rugby supporter of the controversy late last year, and the resulting instatement of Michael Cheika as Wallaby coach. I feel Greg would be surprised to hear that I was not involved in this; in fact I was halfway around the world on another continent.
I am the first to recognise that my previous behaviour was not one of an upstanding individual, but like all people I wish to learn from my mistakes and look to improve upon myself. Greg's comment on "everyone else growing up, except for James O'Connor" implies that I have no recognition of the consequences of my previous actions. I find it ironic that the man accusing me of being immature then preceded to call me an 'immature twat', and 'a little punk' on live radio. A childish insult at best, from a 50 year old father.
Some may argue that Greg gave compromise in stating that he previously offered me support, as well as the Red's team. However these are nothing more than thinly veiled attempts to conceal the true message he wished to convey. Everything that was said was a stepping stone for him to base a whole personal attack on assumptions, citing irrelevant examples such as my supposed lack of guidance in Perth. Despite being under the tutelage of one of the great former All Black coaches in John Mitchell, as well as former Wallaby captains Nathan Sharpe, David Pocock and Matt Giteau.
The fact is, something is not right in our media for someone in a powerful and influential position toward the public and rugby union fans to walk around continuously making outlandish comments and is not being held accountable for them.
Greg then went on to question the legitimacy of my contractual release from the Red's due to my own personal issues. A recent headline that sticks out for me is the much-publicised story of another prominent athletes' own personal issues. However, the key difference in this, was that this person received support from not only his peers but also Australian media and was used as a tool to highlight the importance of recognition of mental illness. I do not need to answer the speculation of a man that obviously has little empathy toward fellow athletes. Instead of support, Greg felt it necessary to question my character when for all he knows; my mental state could be extremely unstable. Surely there is a duty of care for a man in his position with the power to produce media for mass-consumption. The fact is the man is trivialising mental health issues by making such comments when he knows nothing about the circumstances surrounding my release.
Greg likes to talk about the sacredness and brotherhood behind playing for the Wallabies. However he does not hesitate to insult those exact players that pull on that jersey. After playing just over a handful of caps, he's pulled on the Wallaby jersey enough times to know how devastating it could be to have fellow countrymen alienate you in the media. I can recall numerous times where Greg Martin has emphasised the importance of supporting the team while simultaneously stating things that are in direct conflict with what comes out of his mouth. You will never hear Ray Warren attack a player. Look at how Brad Fitler and Gorden Tallis spoke nothing but praise and admiration for their former constituents during State of Origin. Compare that to Greg's commentating of the Australia vs Uruguay world cup game, and what will be found is numerous comments deriding the efforts of players giving their all for their country.
I have tremendous respect for Australian rugby. One thing I can say without a doubt is that I have never taken for granted the opportunity and nor have I ever left the field thinking I could have done more for the gold jersey. Like every person that is afforded the opportunity to represent his country, it is a dream come true and will always remain that way.
This year, there were no headlines regarding my so-called off field antics, yet Greg does not hesitate to say I have not matured. While my season with the Red's was not as favourable as I would have expected for myself or my team, I did not come back to Australia expecting a warm reception, or a gauntlet welcoming me back to test rugby. I knew full well the mountain I had to climb to get back into the squad, and regardless of my form and injuries it was a huge disappointment to not be included. At no point though, was there an expectation of my inclusion as Greg implied.
This issue, I believe, goes beyond me. While I have gone to great lengths to address what Greg has said about me, the reasons for me doing this is to emphasise that these comments are unacceptable. I write these words so that other athletes, future or current do not have to be on the receiving end of tormenting comments that they have absolutely no hope of clarifying. It doesn't take a genius to realise the potential dangers of such blatant character assassination. Greg Martin has become a media lackey, willing to say whatever is put in front of him without contemplating the rippling effects it may have on those he is commenting on. There is a narrative today that builds athletes to astronomical proportions, leading them to be idolised and adored, to then be torn down by those exact people that helped build them up. Some would see what Greg has done as bullying, plain and simple.
With so much emphasis today on the importance of choosing words wisely, and showing tact and respect to others I sincerely hope that my words will open the Australian publics' eyes, and maybe even Greg Martins'. At the end of the day, while being somebody in the spotlight, I am a person. I may not talk the way you want me to, carry myself in such a way that is agreeable to some, but in what world does that give someone the right to destroy someone's integrity in a public forum.
I wish the boys well in their quarter-final clash against Scotland. Lets get behind them!
Regards James O'Connor
This is the James O'Connor who has just been released by the Queensland Reds? He's a head the ball.
Replace James O'Connor with a GAA players name, it sounds very familiar.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 15, 2015, 10:17:14 AM
This is the James O'Connor who has just been released by the Queensland Reds? He's a head the ball.
Is that a known mental illness?
here, whats the craic with Maradona hanging around with the Argentina rugby squad?!
we could be in trouble if he togs out!!
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 14, 2015, 02:45:16 PM
IRFU would save a lot of money by letting some promising young players off to France and England to develop
it might also develop a different sort of player - ie a different skillset, cause so many of the Irish players have poor offloading and line break skills
Plus 1, I have been saying this for years.
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 15, 2015, 04:54:38 PM
here, whats the craic with Maradona hanging around with the Argentina rugby squad?!
we could be in trouble if he togs out!!
Looks like he'll miss the game against us. Pity, it would have been a great privilege for the Irish fans to be in the same city as him.
(You can insert a 'not sure if serious' image here.)
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 15, 2015, 04:54:38 PM
here, whats the craic with Maradona hanging around with the Argentina rugby squad?!
we could be in trouble if he togs out!!
He might be good with his feet but he probably isn't much good with his hands.
As I am sure any Englishman could tell you.
Quote from: dec on October 15, 2015, 05:59:57 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 15, 2015, 04:54:38 PM
here, whats the craic with Maradona hanging around with the Argentina rugby squad?!
we could be in trouble if he togs out!!
He might be good with his feet but he probably isn't much good with his hands.
As I am sure any Englishman could tell you.
I am quite sure his hands are outstanding, God like almost! :P
Will the CCCC fine Ireland as a result of Schmit not naming his team in a timely fashion?
The programme is ruined for everyone
Booked a flight to Edinburgh today and realised it will be in the middle of the semi final v Australia :'(
"French outlet L'obs Sport is reporting that the players have "discreetly dismissed" the coach mid-tournament after the players had grown weary of his "lack of charisma". They are also reporting that the squad doesn't see Saint-Andre as a "leader of men".
As a result, it is understood that the players have made the remarkable decision to coach themselves against New Zealand."
well this is interesting.
if this is true, i reckon France might give New Zealand a bit of a scare, as strange as that sounds. it would be somewhat typical of a french team to come out and win after something like this happens, where other teams might crumble...
by the sounds of it they will be happier without him anyway!
Didn't the players fire lievermont in the last World Cup they are some headcases
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 15, 2015, 10:18:38 PM
"French outlet L'obs Sport is reporting that the players have "discreetly dismissed" the coach mid-tournament after the players had grown weary of his "lack of charisma". They are also reporting that the squad doesn't see Saint-Andre as a "leader of men".
As a result, it is understood that the players have made the remarkable decision to coach themselves against New Zealand."
well this is interesting.
if this is true, i reckon France might give New Zealand a bit of a scare, as strange as that sounds. it would be somewhat typical of a french team to come out and win after something like this happens, where other teams might crumble...
by the sounds of it they will be happier without him anyway!
It's the 2011 RWC all over again and yes they are the only team that would try this and yet beat NZ
Quote from: muppet on October 14, 2015, 07:58:36 PM
(Robbed from FB)
An Englishman walks into a bar....
There should have been and Irishman, Scotsman and a Welshman there, but they're all at the World Cup.
;D
Quote from: tiempo on October 15, 2015, 11:07:46 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 15, 2015, 10:18:38 PM
"French outlet L'obs Sport is reporting that the players have "discreetly dismissed" the coach mid-tournament after the players had grown weary of his "lack of charisma". They are also reporting that the squad doesn't see Saint-Andre as a "leader of men".
As a result, it is understood that the players have made the remarkable decision to coach themselves against New Zealand."
well this is interesting.
if this is true, i reckon France might give New Zealand a bit of a scare, as strange as that sounds. it would be somewhat typical of a french team to come out and win after something like this happens, where other teams might crumble...
by the sounds of it they will be happier without him anyway!
It's the 2011 RWC all over again and yes they are the only team that would try this and yet beat NZ
Are they feckin serious? Are they only discovering all of this now?
Quote from: Gmac on October 15, 2015, 10:49:32 PM
Didn't the players fire lievermont in the last World Cup they are some headcases
PSA is a clown. He belongs in a circus. He had no credentials to get the job in the first place. Has done nothing coaching wise anywhere.
The French captain Dusatoir begged Blanco to get rid of PSA after the dismal 6 Nations and install Guy Noves then and not after the WC and he wouldn't listen. He wishes now that he had.
Quote from: tiempo on October 15, 2015, 11:07:46 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 15, 2015, 10:18:38 PM
"French outlet L'obs Sport is reporting that the players have "discreetly dismissed" the coach mid-tournament after the players had grown weary of his "lack of charisma". They are also reporting that the squad doesn't see Saint-Andre as a "leader of men".
As a result, it is understood that the players have made the remarkable decision to coach themselves against New Zealand."
well this is interesting.
if this is true, i reckon France might give New Zealand a bit of a scare, as strange as that sounds. it would be somewhat typical of a french team to come out and win after something like this happens, where other teams might crumble...
by the sounds of it they will be happier without him anyway!
It's the 2011 RWC all over again and yes they are the only team that would try this and yet beat NZ
Quite separate from the joke of a coach that is Saint-André, I fear France are no longer capable of the devil-may-care style of rugby that saw them pull the rug from under New Zealand in 1999 and 2007. I know I'm an old fart for lamenting the eradication of national characteristics from the game, and it's not all bad. People starting out watching rugby now would be aghast at the 10-man game we used specialise in. Still, I think something has been lost that had value. It was glorious when France clicked, as New Zealand found out to their cost on those occasions. They might hope that this is a repeat of 2011, but New Zealand completely shat themselves at the thought of four-more-years. They are not carrying that burden this time, so the chances of this revolt working have to be slim.
Quote from: deiseach on October 16, 2015, 09:42:24 AM
Quote from: tiempo on October 15, 2015, 11:07:46 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 15, 2015, 10:18:38 PM
"French outlet L'obs Sport is reporting that the players have "discreetly dismissed" the coach mid-tournament after the players had grown weary of his "lack of charisma". They are also reporting that the squad doesn't see Saint-Andre as a "leader of men".
As a result, it is understood that the players have made the remarkable decision to coach themselves against New Zealand."
well this is interesting.
if this is true, i reckon France might give New Zealand a bit of a scare, as strange as that sounds. it would be somewhat typical of a french team to come out and win after something like this happens, where other teams might crumble...
by the sounds of it they will be happier without him anyway!
It's the 2011 RWC all over again and yes they are the only team that would try this and yet beat NZ
Quite separate from the joke of a coach that is Saint-André, I fear France are no longer capable of the devil-may-care style of rugby that saw them pull the rug from under New Zealand in 1999 and 2007. I know I'm an old fart for lamenting the eradication of national characteristics from the game, and it's not all bad. People starting out watching rugby now would be aghast at the 10-man game we used specialise in. Still, I think something has been lost that had value. It was glorious when France clicked, as New Zealand found out to their cost on those occasions. They might hope that this is a repeat of 2011, but New Zealand completely shat themselves at the thought of four-more-years. They are not carrying that burden this time, so the chances of this revolt working have to be slim.
Well lets be honest, the dung they played last Sunday against Ireland certainly isn't going to do the trick, its all duck, no dinner for the French at this stage.
Also,
Don't think New Zealand have been any great shakes either, so this game might be the one to watch.
Can't see either Wales or Scotland cause much anxiety for South Africa or Australia in the other two quarters.
Mystic Wob:
Wales, New Zealand, Ireland and Australia to progress to the semis (with each of them in a more comfortable win than the previous).
Then Wales to cause the shock of the tournament by beating NZ, and Australia seeing off Ireland in a penalty-kicking contest, 15-9.
Australia then open up in the final and win by 16+.
Quote from: johnneycool on October 16, 2015, 12:07:28 PM
Well lets be honest, the dung they played last Sunday against Ireland certainly isn't going to do the trick, its all duck, no dinner for the French at this stage.
Yeah, you'd think things can't get any worse for France. Ahem.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 16, 2015, 12:15:26 PM
Mystic Wob:
Wales, New Zealand, Ireland and Australia to progress to the semis (with each of them in a more comfortable win than the previous).
Then Wales to cause the shock of the tournament by beating NZ, and Australia seeing off Ireland in a penalty-kicking contest, 15-9.
Australia then open up in the final and win by 16+.
well thats a prediction and a half! Wales to win?! against SA
AND NZ??!!
Mystic Finbar says:
SA/Ireland/Australia and NZ to win the quarters, NZ JUST!
Ireland to beat Australia in the semi, SA to beat NZ in the other semi.
im not being patriotic in predicting Ireland to get to the final, i genuinely think we can/will. but i will give them a patriotic nod to win the whole thing if we got there as i just couldn't properly call it if it did come down to SA and Ireland.
Managed to get a ticket yesterday. On train heading for Cardiff. Surrounded by New Zealand fans
Quote from: Leonardo on October 16, 2015, 01:12:09 PM
Managed to get a ticket yesterday. On train heading for Cardiff. Surrounded by New Zealand fans
You're in for some treat. The Irish will take over Cardiff if its anything like last week!!
Sexton starts!!
Could be changes yet I'd say.
Ireland: R Kearney; Bowe, Earls, Henshaw, D Kearney; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Ross; Toner, Henderson; Murphy, Henry, Heaslip.
Replacements: R Strauss, J McGrath, N White, D Ryan, R Ruddock, E Reddan, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 16, 2015, 01:26:13 PM
Sexton starts!!
Could be changes yet I'd say.
Ireland: R Kearney; Bowe, Earls, Henshaw, D Kearney; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Ross; Toner, Henderson; Murphy, Henry, Heaslip.
Replacements: R Strauss, J McGrath, N White, D Ryan, R Ruddock, E Reddan, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.
Whilst Argentina are no pushovers, do you not think Ireland would beat them with Madigan at 10 and let Sexton rest to be fully fit for Australia?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 16, 2015, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 16, 2015, 01:26:13 PM
Sexton starts!!
Could be changes yet I'd say.
Ireland: R Kearney; Bowe, Earls, Henshaw, D Kearney; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Ross; Toner, Henderson; Murphy, Henry, Heaslip.
Replacements: R Strauss, J McGrath, N White, D Ryan, R Ruddock, E Reddan, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.
Whilst Argentina are no pushovers, do you not think Ireland would beat them with Madigan at 10 and let Sexton rest to be fully fit for Australia?
the same was said in 2011 pre the Welsh game
I'd say Indiana might be right here about Sexton. A groin would be a niggle, and Madigan would be on high alert. A concussion will probably physically appear ok, but if he gets another bang, he'll be in serious trouble.
Jesus Tony getting a bit far ahead there! These lads will test Ireland big time!!
Argentina's team talk: "Imagine that Sexton is O'Gara..."
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 16, 2015, 01:50:06 PM
Jesus Tony getting a bit far ahead there! These lads will test Ireland big time!!
Argentina, Australia, NZ. Sure it's only 3 matches ;D
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 16, 2015, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 16, 2015, 01:26:13 PM
Sexton starts!!
Could be changes yet I'd say.
Ireland: R Kearney; Bowe, Earls, Henshaw, D Kearney; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Ross; Toner, Henderson; Murphy, Henry, Heaslip.
Replacements: R Strauss, J McGrath, N White, D Ryan, R Ruddock, E Reddan, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.
Whilst Argentina are no pushovers, do you not think Ireland would beat them with Madigan at 10 and let Sexton rest to be fully fit for Australia?
i would agree. at least start Sexton on the bench and if Madigan/Ireland are struggling then spring Sexton.
but if we were going well surely a bit of extra rest for Sexton would be no harm?
Quote from: deiseach on October 16, 2015, 01:53:49 PM
Argentina's team talk: "Imagine that Sexton is O'Gara..."
Speed bump!
ROG played against Argentina 8 times, winning in 6 of them and scored 59 points. Lets see how Sexton gets on against them.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
I'd say Indiana might be right here about Sexton. A groin would be a niggle, and Madigan would be on high alert. A concussion will probably physically appear ok, but if he gets another bang, he'll be in serious trouble.
Anyone who things we can rest players missing our 3 best forwards is seriously deluded.
I can't see how sexton is fit - a groin does not clear up in a week
Rumour is neither him or earls are 100 percent and wouldn't be starting if it was a 6 nations game
Quote from: INDIANA on October 16, 2015, 02:18:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
I'd say Indiana might be right here about Sexton. A groin would be a niggle, and Madigan would be on high alert. A concussion will probably physically appear ok, but if he gets another bang, he'll be in serious trouble.
Anyone who things we can rest players missing our 3 best forwards is seriously deluded.
I can't see how sexton is fit - a groin does not clear up in a week
Rumour is neither him or earls are 100 percent and wouldn't be starting if it was a 6 nations game
We aren't missing our 3 best forwards. Much as its seems unpatriotic to suggest such things, Henderson of 2015 is clearly a step-up on O'Connell of 2015. I'd also suggest that Henry is a better open side than O'Brien, if perhaps not quite as good a player.
Start Sexton and see how long he lasts. If you bring him on after 55 minutes and he gets a dunt 10 minutes later, then you're back switching again.
Also, starting Sexton means Argentina are not going to spend as long focussing on Madigan in their preparations. It's easier to get players tuned in to how they are going to deal with the starting team than to plan for someone who will feature at some point. Players are better at sticking to plans early in games, but tend to go back to instinct as a game progresses.
I'm sure the French put a lot of thought into how they were going to create situations where various hitmen would land one on Sexton and presumably eventually see him off the field. Yet when it happened surprisingly early, it was of no great benefit to them and they didn't seem ready for the next man up. Sort of like the dog who chases the car and doesn't know what to do when it stops.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 02:17:05 PM
ROG played against Argentina 8 times, winning in 6 of them and scored 59 points. Lets see how Sexton gets on against them.
I presume deiseach is referring to the verbals and the banter that was a feature of ROG vs. Argentina?
(http://e1.365dm.com/15/10/768x432/rugby-felipe-contepomi-argentina-ronan-ogara-ireland_3364153.jpg?20151015111358)
I agree with that BnM man, but the only caveat I would say is if he has concussion, he probably shouldn't be playing at all. Not to rest him for a semi final, but out of safety concerns. He's had a few at this stage.
If it's a groin, I tend to side with you. It's balls out at this stage, so start him and if he breaks down, you lose 1 sub. If you bring him on, and he breaks down, it's a bigger blow.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 16, 2015, 02:24:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 02:17:05 PM
ROG played against Argentina 8 times, winning in 6 of them and scored 59 points. Lets see how Sexton gets on against them.
I presume deiseach is referring to the verbals and the banter that was a feature of ROG vs. Argentina?
(http://e1.365dm.com/15/10/768x432/rugby-felipe-contepomi-argentina-ronan-ogara-ireland_3364153.jpg?20151015111358)
I'm sure he is.
And I also know Sexton is unbeaten (I think) against Argentina, so I'm sure he'll do fine :)
I'm defensive of ROG though, I think he gets serious flak considering all he did for Ireland and Munster.
On a separate topic, does anyone else think Sexton has changed his game slightly? One of the huge differences between Sexton and O'Gara was the fact that Sexton played so flat. He really tested line defence, whereas ROG preferred to sit back and pull the strings with his kicking (he was a better passer than most people think, but because he played so deep it only came to the forefront rarely).
Watching Sexton recently, I think he's starting to sit a few yards deeper himself, and he's trying this wrap around pass nearly every time he gets it.
When Madigan came on against France, I thought he actually looked a lot more dangerous with the ball, because he was busy, flat and attacking the line.
I wonder is Sexton sitting back a bit more because he's getting a bit older, does he want to be more of a control type 10, or is it related to the knocks he has taken? Or maybe I'm imagining it :)
Quote from: INDIANA on October 16, 2015, 02:18:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
I'd say Indiana might be right here about Sexton. A groin would be a niggle, and Madigan would be on high alert. A concussion will probably physically appear ok, but if he gets another bang, he'll be in serious trouble.
Anyone who things we can rest players missing our 3 best forwards is seriously deluded.
I can't see how sexton is fit - a groin does not clear up in a week
Rumour is neither him or earls are 100 percent and wouldn't be starting if it was a 6 nations game
Neither can I but the good ole cortisone will be deployed pretty heavily this Sunday and next if things go ok.
If there really was concussion then its a very dangerous game they're playing with the lads long term health, Sexton shouldn't be involved in that particular discussion and the medical team should have the final say.
OConnell is a loss of sorts, but Henderson is like an O'Connell 10 years younger and TBH, I think we're a better team with him in. Ireland certainly had more potency in the second half against France.
O'Mahony is a big loss and so is O'Brien even if Chris Henry is a very capable flanker.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 02:25:45 PM
I agree with that BnM man, but the only caveat I would say is if he has concussion, he probably shouldn't be playing at all.
If he has concussion, I'd still go with the dummy team idea where Sexton will mysteriously tighten up before the game and not feature. If he announced the team with Madigan starting, it puts all the spotlight on Madigan - media and opposition wise.
Agree with that Johnny. O'Connell's loss on the pitch is more down to leadership than physical ability at this stage. He's far from a liability, but Henderson is ready to take up the playing mantle, I have no fears there.
I think the back row is a serious concern. I know a lot of lads are lukewarm about O'Mahony, and it might be Munster bias, but I think he's been playing well this world cup, and is another lad who will set the agression tone. He's also Munster captain and has that leadership experience. O'Brien is another huge loss, and while I'd be comfortable enough if Henry was in for O'Mahony, I am worried about a backrow of Henry, Murphy and Heaslip.
Heaslip was excellent the last day in the second half, but I am not convinced about him as a captain. I think in Leinster Cullen and O'Driscoll were the main men, and when he captained Ireland, I didn't think he really had that aura that O'Driscoll and O'Connell had. Maybe it's just because he seems to be a much more laid back lad off the pitch, but I can't see him getting the heart pumping before a game. In fairness he was excellent last week, so I hope he steps up like that this weekend too.
My sources tell me that Maddog will start. Sexton in getting a scan.
A scan on what?
i never heard anything about a concussion with Sexton, i only ever heard of a groin strain.
looking at his body language being walked off the pitch against France, shaking his head, he seemed pissed with something not being right. if its only a strain he might be alright.
all depends on Joe's plans really!!
Unless Sexton is 100% i'd go with Madigan, then reassess after 50 minutes. If Ireland look like winning give Sexton the extra week off to recover properly, if not bring him on, no point saving anyone for a semi final if they watching it on tv.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 16, 2015, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 16, 2015, 02:18:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
I'd say Indiana might be right here about Sexton. A groin would be a niggle, and Madigan would be on high alert. A concussion will probably physically appear ok, but if he gets another bang, he'll be in serious trouble.
Anyone who things we can rest players missing our 3 best forwards is seriously deluded.
I can't see how sexton is fit - a groin does not clear up in a week
Rumour is neither him or earls are 100 percent and wouldn't be starting if it was a 6 nations game
We aren't missing our 3 best forwards. Much as its seems unpatriotic to suggest such things, Henderson of 2015 is clearly a step-up on O'Connell of 2015. I'd also suggest that Henry is a better open side than O'Brien, if perhaps not quite as good a player.
You'd suggest wrong in my view Henry is seriously over rated - good but no more then that and I won't start on Jordi Murphy . Murphy can do the basics at 6 but he's essentially an 8 playing 6 and won't bring a lot either in terms of carrying or pilfering at 6. You also lose O Mahonys ability as a defensive jumper at 2. That's why I'm shocked he hasn't put Henderson at 6. But there is an argument that Argentinas young locks would run the legs of Toner and Ryan so maybe JS is right .
You can't put a price on O Connells experience in a knockout game . Henderson has none of that . He looked a bit lost against Italy when they stopped his carrying game .
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 02:37:04 PM
A scan on what?
I heard sexton pulled up in training this morning . That's the rumour.If he's getting a scan I'd say his WC is in jeopardy .
Quote from: INDIANA on October 16, 2015, 02:49:16 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 16, 2015, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 16, 2015, 02:18:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
I'd say Indiana might be right here about Sexton. A groin would be a niggle, and Madigan would be on high alert. A concussion will probably physically appear ok, but if he gets another bang, he'll be in serious trouble.
Anyone who things we can rest players missing our 3 best forwards is seriously deluded.
I can't see how sexton is fit - a groin does not clear up in a week
Rumour is neither him or earls are 100 percent and wouldn't be starting if it was a 6 nations game
We aren't missing our 3 best forwards. Much as its seems unpatriotic to suggest such things, Henderson of 2015 is clearly a step-up on O'Connell of 2015. I'd also suggest that Henry is a better open side than O'Brien, if perhaps not quite as good a player.
You'd suggest wrong in my view Henry is seriously over rated - good but no more then that and I won't start on Jordi Murphy . Murphy can do the basics at 6 but he's essentially an 8 playing 6 and won't bring a lot either in terms of carrying or pilfering at 6. You also lose O Mahonys ability as a defensive jumper at 2. That's why I'm shocked he hasn't put Henderson at 6. But there is an argument that Argentinas young locks would run the legs of Toner and Ryan so maybe JS is right .
You can't put a price on O Connells experience in a knockout game . Henderson has none of that . He looked a bit lost against Italy when they stopped his carrying game .
Indiana whats your thoughts on Jack Conan? I prefer him to Murphy personally.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 16, 2015, 02:52:20 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 16, 2015, 02:49:16 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 16, 2015, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 16, 2015, 02:18:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
I'd say Indiana might be right here about Sexton. A groin would be a niggle, and Madigan would be on high alert. A concussion will probably physically appear ok, but if he gets another bang, he'll be in serious trouble.
Anyone who things we can rest players missing our 3 best forwards is seriously deluded.
I can't see how sexton is fit - a groin does not clear up in a week
Rumour is neither him or earls are 100 percent and wouldn't be starting if it was a 6 nations game
We aren't missing our 3 best forwards. Much as its seems unpatriotic to suggest such things, Henderson of 2015 is clearly a step-up on O'Connell of 2015. I'd also suggest that Henry is a better open side than O'Brien, if perhaps not quite as good a player.
You'd suggest wrong in my view Henry is seriously over rated - good but no more then that and I won't start on Jordi Murphy . Murphy can do the basics at 6 but he's essentially an 8 playing 6 and won't bring a lot either in terms of carrying or pilfering at 6. You also lose O Mahonys ability as a defensive jumper at 2. That's why I'm shocked he hasn't put Henderson at 6. But there is an argument that Argentinas young locks would run the legs of Toner and Ryan so maybe JS is right .
You can't put a price on O Connells experience in a knockout game . Henderson has none of that . He looked a bit lost against Italy when they stopped his carrying game .
Indiana whats your thoughts on Jack Conan? I prefer him to Murphy personally.
All bosh and size and no footwork . I don't see the fuss.
Best young back row in Ireland is Jack O Donoghue at Munster . Can play 6 or 8 but preferably 8. A young David Wallace. Followed by Dan Leavy who starts tonight for Leinster . Josh de flier making great strides at 7.
But o Donoghue is the star .
Jack is coming on, but he is red raw. He needs loads of game time at Munster, but he'll get a bit this year I'd say. Donnacha Ryan will need to play as a lock I'd imagine, Tommy O'D is a long term injury, O'Mahony might be out a good while too, so CJ Stander is probably the only first choice back rower that's playing for Munster in the short term.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 02:58:45 PM
Jack is coming on, but he is red raw. He needs loads of game time at Munster, but he'll get a bit this year I'd say. Donnacha Ryan will need to play as a lock I'd imagine, Tommy O'D is a long term injury, O'Mahony might be out a good while too, so CJ Stander is probably the only first choice back rower that's playing for Munster in the short term.
Stander will be eligible for Ireland next year right? Worth a look?
O'Mahony's footwork last week was unreal. Didn't think he had it in his locker.
Stander is a strong boy, a good ball carrier. He's not as good being a ground hog. Maybe worth a look at number 8 behind Heaslip, but I can't see him troubling O'Brien/Henderson/O'Mahony for flanker spots.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 02:31:19 PM
On a separate topic, does anyone else think Sexton has changed his game slightly? One of the huge differences between Sexton and O'Gara was the fact that Sexton played so flat. He really tested line defence, whereas ROG preferred to sit back and pull the strings with his kicking (he was a better passer than most people think, but because he played so deep it only came to the forefront rarely).
Watching Sexton recently, I think he's starting to sit a few yards deeper himself, and he's trying this wrap around pass nearly every time he gets it.
When Madigan came on against France, I thought he actually looked a lot more dangerous with the ball, because he was busy, flat and attacking the line.
I wonder is Sexton sitting back a bit more because he's getting a bit older, does he want to be more of a control type 10, or is it related to the knocks he has taken? Or maybe I'm imagining it :)
He does look to be playing deeper and it's probably a combo of several reasons. I'd say mainly to protect him from hits and also to always leave him the option of launching kick-chase bombs which are important to Schmidt. Would a flat playing 10 put enough team mates through gaps to justify the inevitable crashes he'll take fixing someone in a tackle? I'd be certain it gets actuaried out.
As he is starting from deep, the wraparound is the best option to try and buy himself a bit of space ball in hand, otherwise he'd fairly early to line up starting further back.
Quote from: deiseach on October 16, 2015, 09:42:24 AM
Quote from: tiempo on October 15, 2015, 11:07:46 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on October 15, 2015, 10:18:38 PM
"French outlet L'obs Sport is reporting that the players have "discreetly dismissed" the coach mid-tournament after the players had grown weary of his "lack of charisma". They are also reporting that the squad doesn't see Saint-Andre as a "leader of men".
As a result, it is understood that the players have made the remarkable decision to coach themselves against New Zealand."
well this is interesting.
if this is true, i reckon France might give New Zealand a bit of a scare, as strange as that sounds. it would be somewhat typical of a french team to come out and win after something like this happens, where other teams might crumble...
by the sounds of it they will be happier without him anyway!
It's the 2011 RWC all over again and yes they are the only team that would try this and yet beat NZ
Quite separate from the joke of a coach that is Saint-André, I fear France are no longer capable of the devil-may-care style of rugby that saw them pull the rug from under New Zealand in 1999 and 2007 I know I'm an old fart for lamenting the eradication of national characteristics from the game, and it's not all bad. People starting out watching rugby now would be aghast at the 10-man game we used specialise in. Still, I think something has been lost that had value. It was glorious when France clicked, as New Zealand found out to their cost on those occasions. They might hope that this is a repeat of 2011, but New Zealand completely shat themselves at the thought of four-more-years. They are not carrying that burden this time, so the chances of this revolt working have to be slim.
A real pity. C'est l'argent, maleheureusement.
Quote from: johnneycool on October 16, 2015, 02:31:42 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 16, 2015, 02:18:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
I'd say Indiana might be right here about Sexton. A groin would be a niggle, and Madigan would be on high alert. A concussion will probably physically appear ok, but if he gets another bang, he'll be in serious trouble.
Anyone who things we can rest players missing our 3 best forwards is seriously deluded.
I can't see how sexton is fit - a groin does not clear up in a week
Rumour is neither him or earls are 100 percent and wouldn't be starting if it was a 6 nations game
Neither can I but the good ole cortisone will be deployed pretty heavily this Sunday and next if things go ok.
If there really was concussion then its a very dangerous game they're playing with the lads long term health, Sexton shouldn't be involved in that particular discussion and the medical team should have the final say.
OConnell is a loss of sorts, but Henderson is like an O'Connell 10 years younger and TBH, I think we're a better team with him in. Ireland certainly had more potency in the second half against France.
O'Mahony is a big loss and so is O'Brien even if Chris Henry is a very capable flanker.
Concussion is highly political and I wouldn't be sure the medical teams have the power to stop someone like Sexton playing.
He is really endangering his own long term health at this stage.
Quote from: seafoid on October 16, 2015, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on October 16, 2015, 02:31:42 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 16, 2015, 02:18:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 16, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
I'd say Indiana might be right here about Sexton. A groin would be a niggle, and Madigan would be on high alert. A concussion will probably physically appear ok, but if he gets another bang, he'll be in serious trouble.
Anyone who things we can rest players missing our 3 best forwards is seriously deluded.
I can't see how sexton is fit - a groin does not clear up in a week
Rumour is neither him or earls are 100 percent and wouldn't be starting if it was a 6 nations game
Neither can I but the good ole cortisone will be deployed pretty heavily this Sunday and next if things go ok.
If there really was concussion then its a very dangerous game they're playing with the lads long term health, Sexton shouldn't be involved in that particular discussion and the medical team should have the final say.
OConnell is a loss of sorts, but Henderson is like an O'Connell 10 years younger and TBH, I think we're a better team with him in. Ireland certainly had more potency in the second half against France.
O'Mahony is a big loss and so is O'Brien even if Chris Henry is a very capable flanker.
Concussion is highly political and I wouldn't be sure the medical teams have the power to stop someone like Sexton playing.
He is really endangering his own long term health at this stage.
I would bet my bottom dollar they'll have a slight input, but not to the extent they should when it comes to the hidden dangers of concussion!
Well landed in Cardiff there for the two matches. Don't know how a build goes before a big match other than GAA. GONNA BE STRANGE!!!
sexton out now as well. Boss called up . Don't know if Sexton's tournament is over or not.
If this was New Zealand, it be like playing without Carter, McCaw, Kaino, C Smith, Whitelock, you fancy playing New Zealand with that lot out. Argentina will be looking whats missing and say Ireland there for the taking. We haven't the replacements the All-Blacks have, Hope for the best but it started to look very favourably on Argentina.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 17, 2015, 01:42:13 PM
If this was New Zealand, it be like playing without Carter, McCaw, Kaino, C Smith, Whitelock, you fancy playing New Zealand with that lot out. Argentina will be looking whats missing and say Ireland there for the taking. We haven't the replacements the All-Blacks have, Hope fort he best but it started to look very favourably on Argentina.
Would Argentina have hammered France with nearly all those out in the second half last weekend? I doubt it. So we've a better panel than Argentina then. And an excellent coach too.
Argentina can fancy it all they want but honestly I'm happy we're not risking Sexton half fit. Both he and Ireland are better off naming actually fit players both tomorrow and hopefully next weekend also.
Boss just the delayed replacement for Payne - nothing to do with Sexton.
Quote from: Syferus on October 17, 2015, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 17, 2015, 01:42:13 PM
If this was New Zealand, it be like playing without Carter, McCaw, Kaino, C Smith, Whitelock, you fancy playing New Zealand with that lot out. Argentina will be looking whats missing and say Ireland there for the taking. We haven't the replacements the All-Blacks have, Hope fort he best but it started to look very favourably on Argentina.
Would Argentina have hammered France with nearly all those out in the second half last weekend? I doubt it. So we've a better panel than Argentina then. And an excellent coach too.
Argentina can fancy it all they want but honestly I'm happy we're not risking Sexton half fit. Both he and Ireland are better off naming actually fit players both tomorrow and hopefully next weekend also.
Boss just the delayed replacement for Payne - nothing to do with Sexton.
It is though Madigan is our 3rd choice scrum half and due to Sexton's fitness he cant be that anymore!
can you bring in unlimited number of replacements for injured parties or is it a max of 5??
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2015, 02:01:28 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 17, 2015, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 17, 2015, 01:42:13 PM
If this was New Zealand, it be like playing without Carter, McCaw, Kaino, C Smith, Whitelock, you fancy playing New Zealand with that lot out. Argentina will be looking whats missing and say Ireland there for the taking. We haven't the replacements the All-Blacks have, Hope fort he best but it started to look very favourably on Argentina.
Would Argentina have hammered France with nearly all those out in the second half last weekend? I doubt it. So we've a better panel than Argentina then. And an excellent coach too.
Argentina can fancy it all they want but honestly I'm happy we're not risking Sexton half fit. Both he and Ireland are better off naming actually fit players both tomorrow and hopefully next weekend also.
Boss just the delayed replacement for Payne - nothing to do with Sexton.
It is though Madigan is our 3rd choice scrum half and due to Sexton's fitness he cant be that anymore!
Yeah but he was always the #2 fly-half, Madigan playing 9 was only going to happen if Reddan and Murray were injured. His other duties were the key ones. They didn't replace Payne with a center because we still have four fit ones on the panel, assuming Earls is fit.
Quote from: Syferus on October 17, 2015, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 17, 2015, 01:42:13 PM
If this was New Zealand, it be like playing without Carter, McCaw, Kaino, C Smith, Whitelock, you fancy playing New Zealand with that lot out. Argentina will be looking whats missing and say Ireland there for the taking. We haven't the replacements the All-Blacks have, Hope fort he best but it started to look very favourably on Argentina.
Would Argentina have hammered France with nearly all those out in the second half last weekend? I doubt it. So we've a better panel than Argentina then. And an excellent coach too.
Argentina can fancy it all they want but honestly I'm happy we're not risking Sexton half fit. Both he and Ireland are better off naming actually fit players both tomorrow and hopefully next weekend also.
Boss just the delayed replacement for Payne - nothing to do with Sexton.
Argentina beat France in Paris quite convincingly in November.
Are you really that naive
Boss is being called up as the 3rd choice scrum half because Madigan was covering that. He's now the first choice outhalf.
If they thought Sexton was going to be fit next week they wouldn't have called Boss up.
Expect Keatley to be on a plane tomorrow evening IF Ireland win
And believe me it's a big if now.
I'm not at all convinced about the Springboks, Wales are battle hardened and look good value at 3-1.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 17, 2015, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 17, 2015, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 17, 2015, 01:42:13 PM
If this was New Zealand, it be like playing without Carter, McCaw, Kaino, C Smith, Whitelock, you fancy playing New Zealand with that lot out. Argentina will be looking whats missing and say Ireland there for the taking. We haven't the replacements the All-Blacks have, Hope fort he best but it started to look very favourably on Argentina.
Would Argentina have hammered France with nearly all those out in the second half last weekend? I doubt it. So we've a better panel than Argentina then. And an excellent coach too.
Argentina can fancy it all they want but honestly I'm happy we're not risking Sexton half fit. Both he and Ireland are better off naming actually fit players both tomorrow and hopefully next weekend also.
Boss just the delayed replacement for Payne - nothing to do with Sexton.
Argentina beat France in Paris quite convincingly in November.
Are you really that naive
Boss is being called up as the 3rd choice scrum half because Madigan was covering that. He's now the first choice outhalf.
If they thought Sexton was going to be fit next week they wouldn't have called Boss up.
Expect Keatley to be on a plane tomorrow evening IF Ireland win
And believe me it's a big if now.
Jesus your hard to listen to... Whether your right or wrong you are depressing
Quote from: INDIANA on October 17, 2015, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 17, 2015, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 17, 2015, 01:42:13 PM
If this was New Zealand, it be like playing without Carter, McCaw, Kaino, C Smith, Whitelock, you fancy playing New Zealand with that lot out. Argentina will be looking whats missing and say Ireland there for the taking. We haven't the replacements the All-Blacks have, Hope fort he best but it started to look very favourably on Argentina.
Would Argentina have hammered France with nearly all those out in the second half last weekend? I doubt it. So we've a better panel than Argentina then. And an excellent coach too.
Argentina can fancy it all they want but honestly I'm happy we're not risking Sexton half fit. Both he and Ireland are better off naming actually fit players both tomorrow and hopefully next weekend also.
Boss just the delayed replacement for Payne - nothing to do with Sexton.
Argentina beat France in Paris quite convincingly in November.
Are you really that naive
Boss is being called up as the 3rd choice scrum half because Madigan was covering that. He's now the first choice outhalf.
If they thought Sexton was going to be fit next week they wouldn't have called Boss up.
Expect Keatley to be on a plane tomorrow evening IF Ireland win
And believe me it's a big if now.
You keep beating the same drum about 1 match, now that's naivety. Until a week ago, most had no idea you were a rugby expert as well.
I'd be surprised if we don't win tomorrow. The players are there, the spirit is there, the right coach is there.
The Welsh need to stop giving away penalties or they are in big bother. Biggar is having a great tournament.
Considering the Welsh injuries, they are making South Africa look very limited.
Quote from: muppet on October 17, 2015, 05:13:41 PM
Considering the Welsh injuries, they are making South Africa look very limited.
South africa very ordinary for months now. Scotland should have given them more a game but choked. Still expect SA to nick this
How many times have SA dropped the ball inside the 22, unbelievable.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 17, 2015, 05:34:27 PM
How many times have SA dropped the ball inside the 22, unbelievable.
Incredible how many men are needed at each ruck to ensure the ball comes back.
Will tomorrow be like that, or is this a Wayne Barnes trait?
Cuthbert!!
Quote from: screenexile on October 17, 2015, 05:45:53 PM
Cuthbert!!
Caught shocking, like Zebo's try from O'Driscoll's run 2 years ago.
Looks like only Ireland have a shout of making the semis from the northern teams. And yet that SA team are nothing to write home about. NZ will need to shit the bed again not to make the final.
In fairness despite being poor SA should have won comfortably but fair play to wales for keeping it close. Feel for the welsh players but delighted gatland gets done over yet again.
How many times did the welsh players fail to clear out the SA tacklers at the ruck even when they had sufficient numbers? Last Welsh attack being a good example. Roberts took the crash ball and was tackled, SA player contested at the ruck, two Welsh players attempted to clear out but sort of just flopped down either side of the tackler, resulting in a penalty to SA for not releasing.
I suppose in the end the Welsh hadn't the depth in talent to replace the injuries earlier in the tournament, a real pity.
Quote from: Syferus on October 17, 2015, 05:55:33 PM
Looks like only Ireland have a shout of making the semis from the northern teams. And yet that SA team are nothing to write home about. NZ will need to shit the bed again not to make the final.
Bad news for Lucozade Sport , strictly for the home nations only.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2015, 04:03:40 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 17, 2015, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 17, 2015, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 17, 2015, 01:42:13 PM
If this was New Zealand, it be like playing without Carter, McCaw, Kaino, C Smith, Whitelock, you fancy playing New Zealand with that lot out. Argentina will be looking whats missing and say Ireland there for the taking. We haven't the replacements the All-Blacks have, Hope fort he best but it started to look very favourably on Argentina.
Would Argentina have hammered France with nearly all those out in the second half last weekend? I doubt it. So we've a better panel than Argentina then. And an excellent coach too.
Argentina can fancy it all they want but honestly I'm happy we're not risking Sexton half fit. Both he and Ireland are better off naming actually fit players both tomorrow and hopefully next weekend also.
Boss just the delayed replacement for Payne - nothing to do with Sexton.
Argentina beat France in Paris quite convincingly in November.
Are you really that naive
Boss is being called up as the 3rd choice scrum half because Madigan was covering that. He's now the first choice outhalf.
If they thought Sexton was going to be fit next week they wouldn't have called Boss up.
Expect Keatley to be on a plane tomorrow evening IF Ireland win
And believe me it's a big if now.
Jesus your hard to listen to... Whether your right or wrong you are depressing
Being right so often does get boring I admit.
Indiana also writes kids books:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRh_U7wWcAABjz0.jpg)
Not often I find myself cheering on the French.
Michalak wouldn't tackle Elmo.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 17, 2015, 07:55:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2015, 04:03:40 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 17, 2015, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 17, 2015, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 17, 2015, 01:42:13 PM
If this was New Zealand, it be like playing without Carter, McCaw, Kaino, C Smith, Whitelock, you fancy playing New Zealand with that lot out. Argentina will be looking whats missing and say Ireland there for the taking. We haven't the replacements the All-Blacks have, Hope fort he best but it started to look very favourably on Argentina.
Would Argentina have hammered France with nearly all those out in the second half last weekend? I doubt it. So we've a better panel than Argentina then. And an excellent coach too.
Argentina can fancy it all they want but honestly I'm happy we're not risking Sexton half fit. Both he and Ireland are better off naming actually fit players both tomorrow and hopefully next weekend also.
Boss just the delayed replacement for Payne - nothing to do with Sexton.
Argentina beat France in Paris quite convincingly in November.
Are you really that naive
Boss is being called up as the 3rd choice scrum half because Madigan was covering that. He's now the first choice outhalf.
If they thought Sexton was going to be fit next week they wouldn't have called Boss up.
Expect Keatley to be on a plane tomorrow evening IF Ireland win
And believe me it's a big if now.
Jesus your hard to listen to... Whether your right or wrong you are depressing
Being right so often does get boring I admit.
Classic Eamon Dunphy and George Hook shyte.
I'm sure if Ireland beat Argentina, you'll be dismissing as being down to some sort of bags up from the Argentinians.
Then you'll spend the rest of the week with a hard on about how much Australia will beat us by.
Turning into a right dicking here, doesn't help when Mr ever reliable Parra starts shanking kicks
A lot of teams could look at the speed at which the ABs recycle the ball. Very impressive stuff.
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 17, 2015, 08:57:02 PM
A lot of teams could look at the speed at which the ABs recycle the ball. Very impressive stuff.
Aside from everything else being spot on (Carter!), their wingers are beyond scary. I reckon Savea could run through Lomu!
New Zealand scored more in that first half than the Irish managed in eighty minutes against France?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 17, 2015, 09:00:07 PM
New Zealand scored more in that first half than the Irish managed in eighty minutes against France?
They've looked a broken team since we tore into them after half-time last weekend. Some of the French tackling has been utterly comical.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 17, 2015, 09:00:07 PM
New Zealand scored more in that first half than the Irish managed in eighty minutes against France?
True, but France actually have scored a try! They never even looked like scoring a try against us.
Just an unbelievable back line, i couldn't see Ireland get near them even at full strength, not a wonder the French game was all or nothing last week, we been creamed tonight
NZ have put on some display. Must say Ben Kay is v good at the old play analysis on ITV
Forward pass for that try! Does not matter!
Sweet jeepers. Some display
As we watch this demolition job it should be reminded it was New Zealand 26-16 Argentina in the group stages. Tough game ahead for the Irish tomorrow.
Conor McNamara is unbearable. Worse then Ryle Nugent ffs.
Dusatoir is my ultimate man crush. He doesn't deserve this. Much like NZ didn't deserve the world cup the ref stole for them 4 years ago
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 17, 2015, 09:38:54 PM
As we watch this demolition job it should be reminded it was New Zealand 26-16 Argentina in the group stages. Tough game ahead for the Irish tomorrow.
You cant even begin to compare the 2 NZ performances from those matches. Japan beat SA yet they are not the ones in a SF. One interesting thing at the end of the match, France kick to touch first chance they get to end match yet against England they decided several times to run from their line after time nearly costing us the championship.
Quote from: Syferus on October 17, 2015, 09:12:15 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 17, 2015, 09:00:07 PM
New Zealand scored more in that first half than the Irish managed in eighty minutes against France?
They've looked a broken team since we tore into them after half-time last weekend. Some of the French tackling has been utterly comical.
The French national team has been broken for quite a few years now - it's a by product of the dross that is churned out week in, week out in the T14, any of the decent teams are littered with imports and the national team suffers accordingly. Doubt Guy Noves has a magic wand either to cure all their ills when he takes over post WC.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 17, 2015, 09:31:58 PM
NZ have put on some display. Must say Ben Kay is v good at the old play analysis on ITV
Aye he's great. Commentary good is really good and provides great insight into a lot of the technical intricacies.
All-Blacks way better but shocking amount of forward passing and other transgressions allowed.
Quote from: weareros on October 17, 2015, 11:58:57 PM
All-Blacks way better but shocking amount of forward passing and other transgressions allowed.
Yeah, even one pass that ended up in a try that went to TMO and was allowed! All black play on the edge and that goes with passing the ball.
What happened to the big French performance some posters were sure was going to happen ?
Ah I see.......
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gordon-d-arcy-ireland-can-catch-argentina-in-a-double-bluff-1.2390629
another good read from D'Arcy
Quote from: INDIANA on October 18, 2015, 09:59:58 AM
What happened to the big French performance some posters were sure was going to happen ?
Ah I see.......
you can never dismiss the french, until now it seems!! they're fucked!
Quote from: weareros on October 17, 2015, 11:58:57 PM
All-Blacks way better but shocking amount of forward passing and other transgressions allowed.
Not as shocking as Richie McCaw being blown up for being offside! (just the once mind, ever!)
It's very easy to draw parallels between NZ and Kerry. Not only are they obviously more skilful and clinical than any other team, officials also seem to get swept up by their play and don't penalise them the way they do other teams.
Anyhow, I wouldn't read too much into the 2nd half last night. Once Picolot got the yellow, French intensity dipped about 50%. Then France tried running the ball from deep for the first time in years, and it looked like the first time in years. Most club teams would have picked them off at will too.
Not dismissing NZ's brilliance by the way, but any game where wingers knock in 5 tries out wide suggest that their opponents weren't in control of the basics.
I doubt they'll get over 25 points against Australia's defence. But that might just be enough in the final.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 18, 2015, 10:56:37 AM
It's very easy to draw parallels between NZ and Kerry. Not only are they obviously more skilful and clinical than any other team, officials also seem to get swept up by their play and don't penalise them the way they do other teams.
Anyhow, I wouldn't read too much into the 2nd half last night. Once Picolot got the yellow, French intensity dipped about 50%. Then France tried running the ball from deep for the first time in years, and it looked like the first time in years. Most club teams would have picked them off at will too.
Not dismissing NZ's brilliance by the way, but any game where wingers knock in 5 tries out wide suggest that their opponents weren't in control of the basics.
I doubt they'll get over 25 points against Australia's defence. But that might just be enough in the final.
Yeah, was thinking that myself. In fairness, I don't know the rules 50%. So who am I to judge?
McCaw got away with 3/4 yellow card offences yesterday
this helps them a lot
Jaysus the Argentinians are pumped!!!!
Oh feck here goes!
Very poorly contested in the air leading up to the try there, bad start
2 Kearneys badly caught out!
Holy shit we've 30 kilos on them we shouldn't be losing that badly!
Ireland are shocking 1st 10mins and a mile of the pace
f**k!!!
Do forward passes not count anymore.
Not looking good. :(
Mike Ross can't run!
An hour left lads. Relax. :P
Very poor contesting at the break down , been turned over 3 times, this is where O`Brien is missed plus Sexton game management and O`Connells leadship badly missed. Ireland not up to the pace or bite like the French game
Ireland back home tomorrow.
I think if we had McCaw at the breakdown we wouldnt be in the handling we in, we need to bring it to 7 b4 half time
Argentina won't keep their discipline for the full match. Ireland by 10.
Had a feeling Argentina would provide a challenge like this all not lost yet however a big second half performance from Irish needed.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2015, 01:54:50 PM
Argentina won't keep their discipline for the full match. Ireland by 10.
Agree. Ireland playing poor but only 10 down. Played better in 2nd quarter.
we cant even gather the kick off now, poor poor!!
Down to 3 pts in it and we played nothing, got to pick it up now
Touch and good 2nd yellow there, even if he lifted his left arm he going in head first into Best Back
Great try to finish us off. French game has taken it's toll.
That's that over for another 4 years. Thank feck!
in general even though we clawed our way back into it we been poor, had been at full strength would made a big difference. Somebody here say we win by 10 at Halftime? we need more speed and size in the backs
Still no quarterfinal win...
Well played Indiana.
Argentina just so much more skillful. Actually beautiful to watch compared to the dour English style we play.
That's our level really, around 8 in the world. Players missing, doesn't matter. All teams have men unavailable. Unable to turn it on when it really matters. So many players didn't perform. I'll single out Dave Kearney as one, lost count how many tackles he missed. Back to the 6 nations
Not happy to see the Rugby boys lose. But as least it will take them off their high horse when talking about their Soccer counterparts.
Irish strength in depth not as good as originally thought might have been different but for injuries however credit where credit is due to Argentina they have a habit of knocking the Irish out of world cups and you could see today why they gave New Zealand a competitive game in the group stages.
looking back, is the decision not sent off the prop for 2 yellows when only 3pts in itt he game changer? ireland very poor start cost them the game
We lost this in the first 15 mins when the players seemed to agree with the media and the public mood that having beaten France we had at least one hand on the Webb Ellis Trophy.
another heroic failure
Wasnt even Heroic!!
Quote from: JoG2 on October 18, 2015, 02:52:57 PM
That's our level really, around 8 in the world. Players missing, doesn't matter. All teams have men unavailable. Unable to turn it on when it really matters. So many players didn't perform. I'll single out Dave Kearney as one, lost count how many tackles he missed. Back to the 6 nations
That's all great in hindsight but we're missing too many starters and its not a regular injury list! As has been said take out Carter, Kaino, McCaw from NZ and they're beatable we're missing 5 starters!
I never underestimated Argentina but I did believe we'd beat them. Unfortunately it was a bridge too far.
Argentina will give the Aussies a right game!
Humiliation.
Injuries and arrogance (if the supporters were anything to go by) played their part.
As a nation we don't do favouritism very well.
Quote from: Canalman on October 18, 2015, 03:00:49 PM
Humiliation.
Injuries and arrogance (if the supporters were anything to go by) played their part.
As a nation we don't do favouritism very well.
There's no way the team underestimated Argentina. They're a good team and given what we were missing they were better than us its as simple as that! There'll be a big witch-hunt now to apportion blame but sometimes the other team are just better and you have to accept it.
Quote from: screenexile on October 18, 2015, 02:58:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 18, 2015, 02:52:57 PM
That's our level really, around 8 in the world. Players missing, doesn't matter. All teams have men unavailable. Unable to turn it on when it really matters. So many players didn't perform. I'll single out Dave Kearney as one, lost count how many tackles he missed. Back to the 6 nations
That's all great in hindsight but we're missing too many starters and its not a regular injury list! As has been said take out Carter, Kaino, McCaw from NZ and they're beatable we're missing 5 starters!
I never underestimated Argentina but I did believe we'd beat them. Unfortunately it was a bridge too far.
Argentina will give the Aussies a right game!
The WC is the benchmark. We've never been beyond the last 8, ever. That's our level.
Did having sexton, poc etc missing make Dave Kearney miss at least 5 tackles, make Murray kick like an ass. Make other fumble, miss passes etc...? No. We just can't perform when it really matters.
All I can say is, France must be s complete pile of merde!
Reality is Argentina were denied entry into 5 nations. Instead they now compete against ABs and Australia competitively and have moved far ahead of NH teams.
Madigan's miss to bring it level at 23 apiece was a huge moment. Instead we lose the momentum and Argentina knock over a penalty almost straight away for 6 point lead. In saying that Argentina were fantastic, their aggression was brutal.
Expect the usual overreactions, but the game hinged on a few moments with 10 or 15 to go. The non second yellow card of the Argentinian tight head for a head plunge. Madigan's miss that could have made it level and Murray fouling the ball in the scrum that reversed the scrum and lead to Argentina's match winning try.
Argentina are definitely top 3 in the world, but when you see Ireland having to bring on players that aren't even guaranteed starters for Leinster, it's obvious the talent pool is quite shallow.
Argentina any good fellas?
Testing , testing .....
Hernandez over the hill ?
Should be entertaining
Hard to luck to the players and management.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 18, 2015, 03:20:50 PM
Expect the usual overreactions, but the game hinged on a few moments with 10 or 15 to go. The non second yellow card of the Argentinian tight head for a head plunge. Madigan's miss that could have made it level and Murray fouling the ball in the scrum that reversed the scrum and lead to Argentina's match winning try.
Argentina are definitely top 3 in the world, but when you see Ireland having to bring on players that aren't even guaranteed starters for Leinster, it's obvious the talent pool is quite shallow.
Of course it is! It's a minority sport in this country. We have Three and a half professional clubs. There are a lot more kids not playing Rugby than playing it. Have to say I found the over confidence in the Rugby team uncomfortable.
Fair play to indiana. The ref was brutal. Both early tries had forward passes but not checked even when they went to the TMO. Nothing wrong with madigans quick take and try. Ref bottled the sending off. Even the final try came from the most crooked lineout. Looks like playing against the tri nations argentina have learnt to play on the edge and beyond the rules. Most frustrating bit was ireland had fought back to 3 points to only miss a couple of simple penalties and then fail to convert a good 15 mins of possesion and territory into any points. One final point we keep hearing about the intensity of last week blah blah but do we not play france every single year and follow it up a week later with another big game. Dont understand why the defence was so slow. Some of the argentinian passing was sloppy yet they still had time to recover and keep the ball moving. Only in the 2nd half did ireland start to pressure them.
Argentina far far better team and play a superior brand of rugby, that's the bottom line. Would sexton, o connell and o brien playing been enough to bridge the gap? Argentina looked far more dangerous in attack. They never committed too may to the breakdown and looked to move the ball out wide were they had identified how vulnerable we were(dave kearney caught out twice for tries). Like last night a clash of styles with the southern hemisphere proving superior. Case in point was big Mike Ross. Fine player for the 6 nations but in this type of game too slow to get to the breakdown let alone compete. Included for his scrummaging but tbh thats not enough. Same goes for toner to a lesser extent. Included for his lineout ability but doesnt offer as much in the loose. All the Argentinian forwards were quick enough to get to the breakdown and comfortable carrying and off loading ball. Happily Come 6 nations we will be able to compete again :)
That was an outstanding performance by the Argies ..... They were immense fir most of the game and were able to pressurise Ireland at ever opportunity.
Quote from: rrhf on October 13, 2015, 10:19:16 PM
Go each way and cover that
You're a bollox. Did £1 ew instead of 2 on the nose.
Couldn't believe the amount of people who disregarded Argentina. It was like no one had watched the tournament.
Anyway I'm off to buy a bottle of Lucozade.
This game was somewhat similar to the 2011 WC quarter final against Wales. Back then, Ireland were caught cold for early tries, spent 40-50 minutes bashing way reducing the lead and then fell off again at the end.
Poor defending of the wings in 2015 replaces the Dan Lydiate chop tackles of 2011 as the iceberg Ireland perished on.
Previous QF to that, in 2003 Ireland were also blown away in the first half by the French and spent the 2nd half trying to make it respectable.
You'd wonder does Irish rugby have the mentality for knock out games, or do they always shoot their bolt in the group stages.
The only people disregarding Argentina were the Matt Coopers and other interviewers of this world. The pundits and almost everyone else expected a tight game. And it wasn't unreasonable to expect us to win in a tight game. After all were ranked ahead of them and have beaten them in our recent encounters.
What sort of supporters would we be if we expected to lose?
Who wants to be Indiana?
The Argentine tighthead should have got a yellow for leading with the head on Best, except of course he already had a yellow. That was a huge decision and arguably changed the course of the game. I don't know enough about the rules to be certain either way but I heard the TMO saying 'yes he led with the left arm, but...' and then the ref cut him off. He didn't wait for the 'but..' It is small thing but yet......
As for the game, the scoreline after 12 minutes was a case of everything going right for one team, and nothing going right for the other team. A bit like us against the All-Blacks 2 years ago, except the other way round. Once things started going for us, Argentina started making mistakes and their infamous indiscipline reared its head.
Overall though, too many players for us played average or below. No point in pointing fingers though, as the same guys were heroes a week ago.
Fair play to the Scots. Some heart
Quote from: JoG2 on October 18, 2015, 05:23:03 PM
Fair play to the Scots. Some heart
But Indiana said they'd be annihilated and he's always right!
Who do we play next?
What a f**king lineout with 2 mins left!
Good effort. You have to feel sorry for Scotland.
Oz were poor. Scotland did very well.
The hooker will relive that throw a million times
Hard lines, great effort.
A ffs that was gutting for Scotland.
Cruel for Scotland. Aussies playing with one eye on the Semi (& prob the Final tbh) nearly come a cropper. Argentina will give them all they want, bookies will prob have it Argentina +5 for evs??? Been a fantastic tournament.
Jeez scotland now that was a typical irish heroic failure performance. Just goes to show you cant look at even a performance 1 week ago as an indicator. Aus thump england and look dead cert champs then are sh1te today. Scotland really were lucky to scrape past a poor samoa team and then play like tbat today, its mad
Joubert a tosser but the lineout team should have secured the ball and there was no decision to make.
Scotland had the Aussie beat with 2 mins to go, lineout should had been to the front and 3/4 phases of play,waste the clock and then be in the semi, now that's heartbreaking stuff. if Ireland showed that heart we be a different animal!
Now that was Heroic failure!!!
Quote from: Dag Dog on October 18, 2015, 05:27:10 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 18, 2015, 05:23:03 PM
Fair play to the Scots. Some heart
But Indiana said they'd be annihilated and he's always right!
At least he has the balls to call it as he sees it.
Its great that rugby has a TMO but why the feck can he not actually advice a ref, he can only look at what the ref asks him to look at. The touch judges can flag up incidents why the feck then cant the TMO. No idea now who i want to win as the rest are a shower of b@stards
Quote from: omagh_gael on October 18, 2015, 03:17:23 PM
Madigan's miss to bring it level at 23 apiece was a huge moment. Instead we lose the momentum and Argentina knock over a penalty almost straight away for 6 point lead. In saying that Argentina were fantastic, their aggression was brutal.
Pretty much what shane horgan has also said on rte. Despite being sh1te we still could have won it
Quote from: muppet on October 18, 2015, 05:07:23 PM
The only people disregarding Argentina were the Matt Coopers and other interviewers of this world. The pundits and almost everyone else expected a tight game. And it wasn't unreasonable to expect us to win in a tight game. After all were ranked ahead of them and have beaten them in our recent encounters.
What sort of supporters would we be if we expected to lose?
Who wants to be Indiana?
The Argentine tighthead should have got a yellow for leading with the head on Best, except of course he already had a yellow. That was a huge decision and arguably changed the course of the game. I don't know enough about the rules to be certain either way but I heard the TMO saying 'yes he led with the left arm, but...' and then the ref cut him off. He didn't wait for the 'but..' It is small thing but yet......
As for the game, the scoreline after 12 minutes was a case of everything going right for one team, and nothing going right for the other team. A bit like us against the All-Blacks 2 years ago, except the other way round. Once things started going for us, Argentina started making mistakes and their infamous indiscipline reared its head.
Overall though, too many players for us played average or below. No point in pointing fingers though, as the same guys were heroes a week ago.
True I mean who wants to be right all the time. Face facts Irish fans completely disrespected the Argentinians beforehand
Who was it that said we should rest Sexton for next week?
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 06:45:51 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on October 18, 2015, 03:17:23 PM
Madigan's miss to bring it level at 23 apiece was a huge moment. Instead we lose the momentum and Argentina knock over a penalty almost straight away for 6 point lead. In saying that Argentina were fantastic, their aggression was brutal.
Pretty much what shane horgan has also said on rte. Despite being sh1te we still could have won it
That's all well and good, but the main reason we lost was the missed tackles(imo) , 27 of them in total, many leading to 3 on 2 / 2 on 1 outfield. It was like watching the Ireland we all knew in the 80s and 90s. You miss tackles at this stage of the WC and you're gonna get severely punished.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 18, 2015, 07:15:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 18, 2015, 05:07:23 PM
The only people disregarding Argentina were the Matt Coopers and other interviewers of this world. The pundits and almost everyone else expected a tight game. And it wasn't unreasonable to expect us to win in a tight game. After all were ranked ahead of them and have beaten them in our recent encounters.
What sort of supporters would we be if we expected to lose?
Who wants to be Indiana?
The Argentine tighthead should have got a yellow for leading with the head on Best, except of course he already had a yellow. That was a huge decision and arguably changed the course of the game. I don't know enough about the rules to be certain either way but I heard the TMO saying 'yes he led with the left arm, but...' and then the ref cut him off. He didn't wait for the 'but..' It is small thing but yet......
As for the game, the scoreline after 12 minutes was a case of everything going right for one team, and nothing going right for the other team. A bit like us against the All-Blacks 2 years ago, except the other way round. Once things started going for us, Argentina started making mistakes and their infamous indiscipline reared its head.
Overall though, too many players for us played average or below. No point in pointing fingers though, as the same guys were heroes a week ago.
True I mean who wants to be right all the time. Face facts Irish fans completely disrespected the Argentinians beforehand
Who was it that said we should rest Sexton for next week?
You were wrong about Scotland. So you were 50/50 for today.
And it appears from the above that you just claimed you are right all the time, so in fact 1 for 3 today.
And please show me this fact is where 'Irish fans completely disrespected the Argentinians beforehand'? Fans hopeful of winning a match is not the same as 'completely disrespecting'.
If you can't prove the above you are 1 for 4 for today. Sounds about right. ;D
Quote from: muppet on October 18, 2015, 07:26:02 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 18, 2015, 07:15:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 18, 2015, 05:07:23 PM
The only people disregarding Argentina were the Matt Coopers and other interviewers of this world. The pundits and almost everyone else expected a tight game. And it wasn't unreasonable to expect us to win in a tight game. After all were ranked ahead of them and have beaten them in our recent encounters.
What sort of supporters would we be if we expected to lose?
Who wants to be Indiana?
The Argentine tighthead should have got a yellow for leading with the head on Best, except of course he already had a yellow. That was a huge decision and arguably changed the course of the game. I don't know enough about the rules to be certain either way but I heard the TMO saying 'yes he led with the left arm, but...' and then the ref cut him off. He didn't wait for the 'but..' It is small thing but yet......
As for the game, the scoreline after 12 minutes was a case of everything going right for one team, and nothing going right for the other team. A bit like us against the All-Blacks 2 years ago, except the other way round. Once things started going for us, Argentina started making mistakes and their infamous indiscipline reared its head.
Overall though, too many players for us played average or below. No point in pointing fingers though, as the same guys were heroes a week ago.
True I mean who wants to be right all the time. Face facts Irish fans completely disrespected the Argentinians beforehand
Who was it that said we should rest Sexton for next week?
You were wrong about Scotland. So you were 50/50 for today.
And it appears from the above that you just claimed you are right all the time, so in fact 1 for 3 today.
And please show me this fact is where 'Irish fans completely disrespected the Argentinians beforehand'? Fans hopeful of winning a match is not the same as 'completely disrespecting'.
If you can't prove the above you are 1 for 4 for today. Sounds about right. ;D
In fairness it's 4 from 4. I know life can be unfair sometimes. But I've learned to live with my talents
Whatever about the casual fans, most of the more informed pundits and past players were wary of Argentina. There was more than enough references to the beatings of Lens 1999 and Paris 2007. The most optimistic opinion was that Ireland would squeek it despite the absentees. Now, if someone had called how the Scotland Australia game would pan out, they'd deserve serious respect.
Also, let's not be getting carried away as if the pre-match opinions of random outsiders has much bearing on the outcome.
Jpgjohnnyg, I called you on discounting Argentina weeks ago when you lumped them in with the rest of a bunch of "minnows". Until the All Blacks yesterday, they'd played the best rugby of the tournament with the exception of maybe Australia against England.
Kindly pipe down with your moaning about forward passes etc. There was no forward pass, just like there wasn't for our second try. We were 17 down before we realised the game had started.
Hope the Argies manage to win the lot somehow.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 06:45:51 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on October 18, 2015, 03:17:23 PM
Madigan's miss to bring it level at 23 apiece was a huge moment. Instead we lose the momentum and Argentina knock over a penalty almost straight away for 6 point lead. In saying that Argentina were fantastic, their aggression was brutal.
Pretty much what shane horgan has also said on rte. Despite being sh1te we still could have won it
We were bate out the gate, Arg played all the rugby, other than Herny our backrow were anonymous in the first half. The 6 nations was shown up for what it really is this weekend.
If you want me to go back through the posts i will. You misread my original post about argentina which i then immediately agreed with you that argentina are NOT minnows but that NZ should be beating them by 20 as they have done the previous 8 occasions. Argentina deserved to win today but there were still some awfull decisions today which didnt help ireland. By the way if you want to go back over old posts for a laugh - sorry what was that wales wont get out of the group with all those injuries er yes indeed now pipe down yourself and allow people to have different opinions.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 18, 2015, 07:53:47 PM
Whatever about the casual fans, most of the more informed pundits and past players were wary of Argentina. There was more than enough references to the beatings of Lens 1999 and Paris 2007. The most optimistic opinion was that Ireland would squeek it despite the absentees. Now, if someone had called how the Scotland Australia game would pan out, they'd deserve serious respect.
Also, let's not be getting carried away as if the pre-match opinions of random outsiders has much bearing on the outcome.
In fairness all the bookies had ireland to win by 3 or 4 pts and seeing as it is their business to be right i reckon thats more than just some random outsider opinions
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 08:30:57 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 18, 2015, 07:53:47 PM
Whatever about the casual fans, most of the more informed pundits and past players were wary of Argentina. There was more than enough references to the beatings of Lens 1999 and Paris 2007. The most optimistic opinion was that Ireland would squeek it despite the absentees. Now, if someone had called how the Scotland Australia game would pan out, they'd deserve serious respect.
Also, let's not be getting carried away as if the pre-match opinions of random outsiders has much bearing on the outcome.
In fairness all the bookies had ireland to win by 3 or 4 pts and seeing as it is their business to be right i reckon thats more than just some random outsider opinions
The bookies job is to make a profit, or at least not make a loss rather than simply being right.
The handicap is more a reflection of there not being as many Hectors and Pedros walking into Paddy Power to back Argentina.
Even if people round these parts had an inkling that Ireland might lose, they would still be reluctant to back the opposition.
Ireland played fantastic rugby one week ago and deserved to win as easily as they did. Today Ireland were awful. I'm not sure POC, Sexton or O Brien would have made that difference. We looked stale and weary.
I'd say that was the main factor. A fresh team with an extra week playing a tired team who went to the well last Saturday and used up all their resources in doing so.
Would we best Argentina at least five or six times out of ten. Probably yes. But play today's game over again ten times, under the same circumstances and we would lose the most of them. Argentina have a real chance against Australia who today went to the well themselves to dig out a result.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 18, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 08:30:57 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 18, 2015, 07:53:47 PM
Whatever about the casual fans, most of the more informed pundits and past players were wary of Argentina. There was more than enough references to the beatings of Lens 1999 and Paris 2007. The most optimistic opinion was that Ireland would squeek it despite the absentees. Now, if someone had called how the Scotland Australia game would pan out, they'd deserve serious respect.
Also, let's not be getting carried away as if the pre-match opinions of random outsiders has much bearing on the outcome.
In fairness all the bookies had ireland to win by 3 or 4 pts and seeing as it is their business to be right i reckon thats more than just some random outsider opinions
The bookies job is to make a profit, or at least not make a loss rather than simply being right.
The handicap is more a reflection of there not being as many Hectors and Pedros walking into Paddy Power to back Argentina.
Even if people round these parts had an inkling that Ireland might lose, they would still be reluctant to back the opposition.
The worldwide internet betting is a slightly bigger market than sean going to paddy power and backing his team. Evidence shows that bookies odds are more accurate than polls and surveys because by and large people bet on what they think will happen rather than on what they want to happen.
Quote from: bannside on October 18, 2015, 08:42:14 PM
Ireland played fantastic rugby one week ago and deserved to win as easily as they did. Today Ireland were awful. I'm not sure POC, Sexton or O Brien would have made that difference. We looked stale and weary.
I'd say that was the main factor. A fresh team with an extra week playing a tired team who went to the well last Saturday and used up all their resources in doing so.
Would we best Argentina at least five or six times out of ten. Probably yes. But play today's game over again ten times, under the same circumstances and we would lose the most of them. Argentina have a real chance against Australia who today went to the well themselves to dig out a result.
We get through the 6 nations every year which has a tougher calendar but we were unlucky with the injuries. At the time we all felt the draw was kind with each test getting gradually tougher each week but with hindsight it would have been better to play france early then allowing more time for recovery by fielding weaker teams against canada etc but thats the way it goes. Look at england not great but not awful either but a cr@p draw screwed them big time
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: bannside on October 18, 2015, 08:42:14 PM
Ireland played fantastic rugby one week ago and deserved to win as easily as they did. Today Ireland were awful. I'm not sure POC, Sexton or O Brien would have made that difference. We looked stale and weary.
I'd say that was the main factor. A fresh team with an extra week playing a tired team who went to the well last Saturday and used up all their resources in doing so.
Would we best Argentina at least five or six times out of ten. Probably yes. But play today's game over again ten times, under the same circumstances and we would lose the most of them. Argentina have a real chance against Australia who today went to the well themselves to dig out a result.
We get through the 6 nations every year which has a tougher calendar but we were unlucky with the injuries. At the time we all felt the draw was kind with each test getting gradually tougher each week but with hindsight it would have been better to play france early then allowing more time for recovery by fielding weaker teams against canada etc but thats the way it goes. Look at england not great but not awful either but a cr@p draw screwed them big time
Ok. there are 4 teams in the semi-finals.
None are from the NH.
And we still think the 6 Nations is a tougher competition?
Hmm
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 08:23:15 PM
If you want me to go back through the posts i will. You misread my original post about argentina which i then immediately agreed with you that argentina are NOT minnows but that NZ should be beating them by 20 as they have done the previous 8 occasions. Argentina deserved to win today but there were still some awfull decisions today which didnt help ireland. By the way if you want to go back over old posts for a laugh - sorry what was that wales wont get out of the group with all those injuries er yes indeed now pipe down yourself and allow people to have different opinions.
You said they weren't minnows after you were pulled on it. I said weeks ago that I fancied England to go tumbling out and then after all the Welsh injuries, like everyone else, felt it was too big an ask for them. And it should have been.
We got absolutely outplayed today by a faster, stronger, more skillful side. Yet all you can do is (repeatedly) moan about forward passes and a missed sending off.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 18, 2015, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: bannside on October 18, 2015, 08:42:14 PM
Ireland played fantastic rugby one week ago and deserved to win as easily as they did. Today Ireland were awful. I'm not sure POC, Sexton or O Brien would have made that difference. We looked stale and weary.
I'd say that was the main factor. A fresh team with an extra week playing a tired team who went to the well last Saturday and used up all their resources in doing so.
Would we best Argentina at least five or six times out of ten. Probably yes. But play today's game over again ten times, under the same circumstances and we would lose the most of them. Argentina have a real chance against Australia who today went to the well themselves to dig out a result.
We get through the 6 nations every year which has a tougher calendar but we were unlucky with the injuries. At the time we all felt the draw was kind with each test getting gradually tougher each week but with hindsight it would have been better to play france early then allowing more time for recovery by fielding weaker teams against canada etc but thats the way it goes. Look at england not great but not awful either but a cr@p draw screwed them big time
Ok. there are 4 teams in the semi-finals.
None are from the NH.
And we still think the 6 Nations is a tougher competition?
Hmm
Try again tougher calendar not tougher competition. England france italy scotland wales over 6 weeks is tougher than canada romania italy france argentina over 5. As noted before in hindsight it would have worked in our favour to meet one of the smaller teams last to give more recovery time for key players but as also stated earlier others had it far worse
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 09:22:08 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 18, 2015, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: bannside on October 18, 2015, 08:42:14 PM
Ireland played fantastic rugby one week ago and deserved to win as easily as they did. Today Ireland were awful. I'm not sure POC, Sexton or O Brien would have made that difference. We looked stale and weary.
I'd say that was the main factor. A fresh team with an extra week playing a tired team who went to the well last Saturday and used up all their resources in doing so.
Would we best Argentina at least five or six times out of ten. Probably yes. But play today's game over again ten times, under the same circumstances and we would lose the most of them. Argentina have a real chance against Australia who today went to the well themselves to dig out a result.
We get through the 6 nations every year which has a tougher calendar but we were unlucky with the injuries. At the time we all felt the draw was kind with each test getting gradually tougher each week but with hindsight it would have been better to play france early then allowing more time for recovery by fielding weaker teams against canada etc but thats the way it goes. Look at england not great but not awful either but a cr@p draw screwed them big time
Ok. there are 4 teams in the semi-finals.
None are from the NH.
And we still think the 6 Nations is a tougher competition?
Hmm
Try again tougher calendar not tougher competition. England france italy scotland wales over 6 weeks is tougher than canada romania italy france argentina over 5. As noted before in hindsight it would have worked in our favour to meet one of the smaller teams last to give more recovery time for key players but as also stated earlier others had it far worse
Have you looked at the Rugby Championship Calendar. Are you telling me it's easier to play New Zealand, South Africa and Australia in a 6 week period like Argentina do?
Quote from: gallsman on October 18, 2015, 09:20:32 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 08:23:15 PM
If you want me to go back through the posts i will. You misread my original post about argentina which i then immediately agreed with you that argentina are NOT minnows but that NZ should be beating them by 20 as they have done the previous 8 occasions. Argentina deserved to win today but there were still some awfull decisions today which didnt help ireland. By the way if you want to go back over old posts for a laugh - sorry what was that wales wont get out of the group with all those injuries er yes indeed now pipe down yourself and allow people to have different opinions.
You said they weren't minnows after you were pulled on it. I said weeks ago that I fancied England to go tumbling out and then after all the Welsh injuries, like everyone else, felt it was too big an ask for them. And it should have been.
We got absolutely outplayed today by a faster, stronger, more skillful side. Yet all you can do is (repeatedly) moan about forward passes and a missed sending off.
Your dead right i mean a sending off with 30 mins to go would have made no difference lol. Yes we got hammered but funny things happen in sport just because a team deserve to win doesnt mean they actually win. The footballers the other night should have been thumped and yet won, it happens. Refs make mistakes and i think fans are entitled to be annoyed by bad calls. I guess you reckon those pesky scots are bad losers too when reality joubert robbed them of a SF with some bizarre decisions.
The worst team in the 6 nations should beat the no.2 ranked team, Wales could and possible should have beat South Africa, the bounce of a ball, injuries or a bad call can made all the difference in close games. the different between south and north not matter in the next few weeks when South Africa kick and rush game will get their ass handed to them by New Zealand, and i expect them to easily overwhelm Australia in the final.New Zealand 1997 and the 2005 are the 2 best teams in rugby i have seen, by the end of this tournament, this current All-Black team could surpass them
Quote from: INDIANA on October 18, 2015, 09:25:26 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 09:22:08 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 18, 2015, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 18, 2015, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: bannside on October 18, 2015, 08:42:14 PM
Ireland played fantastic rugby one week ago and deserved to win as easily as they did. Today Ireland were awful. I'm not sure POC, Sexton or O Brien would have made that difference. We looked stale and weary.
I'd say that was the main factor. A fresh team with an extra week playing a tired team who went to the well last Saturday and used up all their resources in doing so.
Would we best Argentina at least five or six times out of ten. Probably yes. But play today's game over again ten times, under the same circumstances and we would lose the most of them. Argentina have a real chance against Australia who today went to the well themselves to dig out a result.
We get through the 6 nations every year which has a tougher calendar but we were unlucky with the injuries. At the time we all felt the draw was kind with each test getting gradually tougher each week but with hindsight it would have been better to play france early then allowing more time for recovery by fielding weaker teams against canada etc but thats the way it goes. Look at england not great but not awful either but a cr@p draw screwed them big time
Ok. there are 4 teams in the semi-finals.
None are from the NH.
And we still think the 6 Nations is a tougher competition?
Hmm
Try again tougher calendar not tougher competition. England france italy scotland wales over 6 weeks is tougher than canada romania italy france argentina over 5. As noted before in hindsight it would have worked in our favour to meet one of the smaller teams last to give more recovery time for key players but as also stated earlier others had it far worse
Have you looked at the Rugby Championship Calendar. Are you telling me it's easier to play New Zealand, South Africa and Australia in a 6 week period like Argentina do?
I'm comparing Ireland 6 nations fixtures with their world cup fixtures why are you talking about the rugby championship
Don't know a lot about Rugby but isn't it as simple as Ireland were beaten by a much better team today? Seems to me Ireland fought hard, hung in there and even dragged themselves back into it but at the end of the day Argentina were just far superior and won deservedly.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 18, 2015, 09:46:09 PM
Don't know a lot about Rugby but isn't it as simple as Ireland were beaten by a much better team today? Seems to me Ireland fought hard, hung in there and even dragged themselves back into it but at the end of the day Argentina were just far superior and won deservedly.
I wouldn't be an expert myself, but I don't think Ireland had factored in how wired up the Argentines were from the beginning today. I thought that they would begin to fade in the second half, and they were beginning to fade. If only Madigan had put Ireland level then maybe it could have been different. Fair play to Argentina, played the best rugby and made the least mistakes today too. Didn't see the Scotland game as I thought they would get a hammering, but it must be really tough to out like that!
A key fact I missed in the build up was that Argentina only had five of their starting team today playing last weekend. That was huge considering the game we played last week. Their group focus was completely different than ours in that they had their (small) chance of winning the group early when they played the All Blacks. As soon as it was lost they had the massive advantage of coasting to the qf v Ireland/France. We had the complete reversal where we had to hit top gear 7 days ago and got absolutely gutted with injuries and walking wounded. We hit a shit storm of intensity in first fifteen minutes and (even with PoC et al) we couldn't handle it.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 18, 2015, 09:46:09 PM
Don't know a lot about Rugby but isn't it as simple as Ireland were beaten by a much better team today? Seems to me Ireland fought hard, hung in there and even dragged themselves back into it but at the end of the day Argentina were just far superior and won deservedly.
Was thinking the same myself. Fair play to Ireland for hanging in there, their effort was clear to see but the teams in the Southern Hemisphere are on a different level at the minute.
Lads that was a hiding by double scores and it was unfortunate but it probably reflects correctly that we are in the second tier of a four tier worldwide competetion
Quote from: muppet on October 18, 2015, 05:07:23 PM
And it wasn't unreasonable to expect us to win in a tight game. After all were ranked ahead of them and have beaten them in our recent encounters.
What sort of supporters would we be if we expected to lose?
Ah now, Muppet - you're too long in the tooth for those statements.
You know rightly that tournaments take a form of their own when the first game is played. Doesn't matter if they were first in the world and unbeaten in 33 games. The signs were there, both from how they performed in the group stages (Le France were dung) and how Argentina were improving game by game.
Also, blind support is for the youngsters. Not a lad like you in his 60s.
BTW, I lost my bet. Had Argentina to win between 11-15.
Good job they're beat. I fed up with this rugby sh**e and this Ireland's Call sh**e
Scotland / Australia one of the best games of rugby I have ever seen. The second half went by in the blink of an eye.
Know at least two people who I presume will be trying to offload 300 Euro tickets th ey bought for the semi finals full sure Ireland would be there. Wish them well but can't see too much of a take up with two SH teams in it.
There were seven Rugby Championship vs Six Nations games in this World Cup. In two of them the Six Nations team would have gained a losing bonus point.
Argentina still outsider of 4 to win it at 14/1. That's a big price.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on October 19, 2015, 12:59:44 AM
Argentina still outsider of 4 to win it at 14/1. That's a big price.
We made a good side look great. I'd only fancy them to beat SA of the remaining teams. Beating AUS and then NZ is the hardest run in of any of the remaining teams.
Quote from: The Raven on October 18, 2015, 10:56:51 PM
Good job they're beat. I fed up with this rugby sh**e and this Ireland's Call sh**e
Too roysh. PMSL.
Quote from: ONeill on October 18, 2015, 10:43:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 18, 2015, 05:07:23 PM
And it wasn't unreasonable to expect us to win in a tight game. After all were ranked ahead of them and have beaten them in our recent encounters.
What sort of supporters would we be if we expected to lose?
Ah now, Muppet - you're too long in the tooth for those statements.
You know rightly that tournaments take a form of their own when the first game is played. Doesn't matter if they were first in the world and unbeaten in 33 games. The signs were there, both from how they performed in the group stages (Le France were dung) and how Argentina were improving game by game.
Also, blind support is for the youngsters. Not a lad like you in his 60s.
BTW, I lost my bet. Had Argentina to win between 11-15.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Says the 70 year old who thinks Arsenal will win the league.
Quote from: Syferus on October 19, 2015, 01:27:45 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on October 19, 2015, 12:59:44 AM
Argentina still outsider of 4 to win it at 14/1. That's a big price.
We made a good side look great. I'd only fancy them to beat SA of the remaining teams. Beating AUS and then NZ is the hardest run in of any of the remaining teams.
Gotta love Roscommon GAA fans . Find solace in everything . Similar to Irish rugby fans .
Let's just be thankful we aren't in the semis based on your ahem "logic"
Quote from: dec on October 19, 2015, 12:28:39 AM
There were seven Rugby Championship vs Six Nations games in this World Cup. In two of them the Six Nations team would have gained a losing bonus point.
Sums it up beautifully in my view . Southern Hemisphere play a different sport and it's one that people want to watch
Very disappointing, but I'm still, stubbornly, sticking to my guns that that Ireland team was fit to beat Argentina, even with the injuries. I think most people knew it was going to be tough, but I expected Ireland to have enough, even with Sexton out.
However, despite all this talk about accuracy, attacking lines, ball handling skills, rugby remains, at it's core, a physical confrontation and you have to impose your will on the other team in order to move onto those finer details. This is Cup rugby, and you need to set the tone, set the agenda and prepare the groundwork for the implementation of tactical plans.
Ireland were just at a much lower pitch to Argentina for the first 20 minutes, and in my view that is when the damage was done. Every Argentina ball carry made ground. Ireland tackled going backwards. Our defensive line was jogging up to the gain line, Argentina's ball carriers were smashing through. They were committing 2 or 3 to the ruck and smashing our lads back to get quick ball. In contrast, when we had the ball our runners were getting smashed backwards. Our ruck clear outs were timid and we let them disrupt. In short we were the nail, and Argentina were the hammer. They were at a much higher pitch than us, and that was very disappointing.
However, if Argentina were that much better than us, we would not have been able to gather ourselves, get back into the game and have a kick to draw level. That's why I don't buy the simple analysis that 'oh Ireland were missing too many and Argentina were way better'. The period from say the 25th to the 60th minute, Ireland were better, and Argentina started to get panicky. That prop was very lucky not to get red.
After the missed penalty, Argentina, to their credit, were the ones to kick for home, but I feel that's where our injuries hurt us as our substitutions at that stage were not going to win the game. I also think we emptied the tank in the chase, you often see that in games of all sports, but my view is that if we had been at the correct pitch, and were the ones laying down the law to the ARgentinians from kick off, it would have been a very different game.
As for Scotland, oh Jaysus. That was brutal. I see where there is war with Joubert today, is that because the Prop picked up the ball, but it appeared to be batted back by the Aussie, not knocked on by a Scot? That's what I thought when I saw it, but I had to leave before any analysis. The Scots almost saved the Northern Hemisphere's blushes there, and the Welsh were possibly authors of their own downfall against South Africa.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 09:22:10 AM
Very disappointing, but I'm still, stubbornly, sticking to my guns that that Ireland team was fit to beat Argentina, even with the injuries. I think most people knew it was going to be tough, but I expected Ireland to have enough, even with Sexton out.
However, despite all this talk about accuracy, attacking lines, ball handling skills, rugby remains, at it's core, a physical confrontation and you have to impose your will on the other team in order to move onto those finer details. This is Cup rugby, and you need to set the tone, set the agenda and prepare the groundwork for the implementation of tactical plans.
Ireland were just at a much lower pitch to Argentina for the first 20 minutes, and in my view that is when the damage was done. Every Argentina ball carry made ground. Ireland tackled going backwards. Our defensive line was jogging up to the gain line, Argentina's ball carriers were smashing through. They were committing 2 or 3 to the ruck and smashing our lads back to get quick ball. In contrast, when we had the ball our runners were getting smashed backwards. Our ruck clear outs were timid and we let them disrupt. In short we were the nail, and Argentina were the hammer. They were at a much higher pitch than us, and that was very disappointing.
However, if Argentina were that much better than us, we would not have been able to gather ourselves, get back into the game and have a kick to draw level. That's why I don't buy the simple analysis that 'oh Ireland were missing too many and Argentina were way better'. The period from say the 25th to the 60th minute, Ireland were better, and Argentina started to get panicky. That prop was very lucky not to get red.
After the missed penalty, Argentina, to their credit, were the ones to kick for home, but I feel that's where our injuries hurt us as our substitutions at that stage were not going to win the game. I also think we emptied the tank in the chase, you often see that in games of all sports, but my view is that if we had been at the correct pitch, and were the ones laying down the law to the ARgentinians from kick off, it would have been a very different game.
As for Scotland, oh Jaysus. That was brutal. I see where there is war with Joubert today, is that because the Prop picked up the ball, but it appeared to be batted back by the Aussie, not knocked on by a Scot? That's what I thought when I saw it, but I had to leave before any analysis. The Scots almost saved the Northern Hemisphere's blushes there, and the Welsh were possibly authors of their own downfall against South Africa.
agreed. good post AZ.
so much better than boring Indiana! its gas how some people like that seem to get joy from Ireland losing and spouting how bad we really are, that the rest of us supporters are delusional for being optimistic!
injuries or not we were a good enough team to win. but that's sport. we played bad and they played good! cant put it much simpler than that. not only should we have leveled things with that penalty we missed, but we should have actually came away from that passage of play with a try. we had the momentum there and we should have pushed hard for a try and took the lead. but we didn't, we blew our chances and that was that.
any news on Tommy Bowes injury?
it would be worse to be Scottish this morning. they only had to put in a solid lineout and keep the ball for 60 seconds and they fucked up!
as the panel suggested at the end of the game, is it a case of the southern hemisphere going with more speed than power. is it as simple as that? im not so sure, but the northern hemisphere in general do seem to be lacking something.
In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 09:47:57 AM
In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.
AZ Wales had far more injuries then us and came out of a much tougher pool
They haven't complained about injuries once- they just got on with it. Gatland again today- injuries are not an excuse he said - we had the chances to win it.
Just as a point of information Argentina are down 3 tight-head props, and their first choice second row(who got a 9 week ban in the first game) and their first choice centre yesterday.
Injuries in a game like rugby union are just an excuse. All teams have them.
We lost because we were beaten by a better team and in my opinion we grossly underestimated them. If we really thought they could beat us we'd have prepared to defend our wider channels better. One of our wingers missed five tackles out of nine yesterday.
The 6 Nations is a second rate competition- we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.
It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.
Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC
I'd go along with AZ too.
Despite the horrific opening quarter, once Ireland got within 7 points, I went through 20 minutes of being convinced we would win. The scoreline really doesn't reflect how close Ireland got to turning the Pumas into a blubbering mess.
Ultimately, the absence of O'Brien and O'Mahoney was crucial. While Madigan made mistakes, there was very little any fly-half could have done to stem the rampant Argentine running and rucking of that opening quarter, and to be honest, I reckon POC would have been gasping for air after 10 minutes against their young locks. But, without O'Brien and O'Mahoney, the ability to drive a team backwards was missing. I'm a fan of Chris Henry, but him and Murphy just don't have the energy and intensity of the men they replaced.... and Heaslip and Ruddock are a step down again. It really is an awful shame that injury robbed of us of Ferris last year and O'Donnell this.
Credit to Luke Fitz. I have called him out since he wrongly took Trimble's place, and will continue to do so forever, but he showed something yesterday that was seemingly beyond the Kearneys or Henshaw i.e. a deftness on his feet, and would have been the hero of the day if more of his teammates had have also lifted the bar.
Not quite sure why Rory Best got replaced. You can watch heart monitors all you want, but replacing your best player on the day when the game is in the melting pot, is just bizarre.
Fair play to the Pumas. There is undoubtedly something to be said for facing NZ regularly; you either learn how to swim quickly, or you sink quickly. It was All-Black reminiscent of how clinical they were, both from boot and open play, when they got a whiff of scoring.
Also, does anyone know why Ireland weren't pressurising Argentina under the high ball throughout the first half?
Were the kicks bad, or were our back-3 just taking a breather? It was most odd either way.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 19, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 09:47:57 AM
In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.
AZ Wales had far more injuries then us and came out of a much tougher pool
They haven't complained about injuries once- they just got on with it. Gatland again today- injuries are not an excuse he said - we had the chances to win it.
Just as a point of information Argentina are down 3 tight-head props, and their first choice second row(who got a 9 week ban in the first game) and their first choice centre yesterday.
Injuries in a game like rugby union are just an excuse. All teams have them.
We lost because we were beaten by a better team and in my opinion we grossly underestimated them. If we really thought they could beat us we'd have prepared to defend our wider channels better. One of our wingers missed five tackles out of nine yesterday.
The 6 Nations is a second rate competition- we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.
It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.
Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC
I'm not using the injuries as an excuse, but they are a fact of life. Read what I said again, I said because we weren't at the required pitch and intensity, Argentina blew us away, and because it took such an effort to get back into the game, we were spent when Argentina came again. That's where the subs would have been useful, but we shouldn't have gotten ourselves in such a game chase early on. The opening 20 were the problem.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 10:05:56 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 19, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 09:47:57 AM
In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.
AZ Wales had far more injuries then us and came out of a much tougher pool
They haven't complained about injuries once- they just got on with it. Gatland again today- injuries are not an excuse he said - we had the chances to win it.
Just as a point of information Argentina are down 3 tight-head props, and their first choice second row(who got a 9 week ban in the first game) and their first choice centre yesterday.
Injuries in a game like rugby union are just an excuse. All teams have them.
We lost because we were beaten by a better team and in my opinion we grossly underestimated them. If we really thought they could beat us we'd have prepared to defend our wider channels better. One of our wingers missed five tackles out of nine yesterday.
The 6 Nations is a second rate competition- we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.
It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.
Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC
I'm not using the injuries as an excuse, but they are a fact of life. Read what I said again, I said because we weren't at the required pitch and intensity, Argentina blew us away, and because it took such an effort to get back into the game, we were spent when Argentina came again. That's where the subs would have been useful, but we shouldn't have gotten ourselves in such a game chase early on. The opening 20 were the problem.
None of this disguises the fact that if the referee had not bottled a big decision Ireland would have been playing against 14 men for most of half an hour, this would have changed the complexion of the game immensely.
Neil Francis article in Indo is mean spirited, thought Hookes report for once was spot on.
Yeah, but that's the breaks of refereeing. Look at Scotland! At a macro level, Ireland started the game flat, for whatever reason, and they paid the penalty.
The fact that we had a situation where we were 3 points down, and probably should have been against 14 men, and then missed a kick to draw level, reinforces my point that there wasn't some massive talent deficit.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 10:05:56 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 19, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 09:47:57 AM
In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.
AZ Wales had far more injuries then us and came out of a much tougher pool
They haven't complained about injuries once- they just got on with it. Gatland again today- injuries are not an excuse he said - we had the chances to win it.
Just as a point of information Argentina are down 3 tight-head props, and their first choice second row(who got a 9 week ban in the first game) and their first choice centre yesterday.
Injuries in a game like rugby union are just an excuse. All teams have them.
We lost because we were beaten by a better team and in my opinion we grossly underestimated them. If we really thought they could beat us we'd have prepared to defend our wider channels better. One of our wingers missed five tackles out of nine yesterday.
The 6 Nations is a second rate competition- we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.
It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.
Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC
I'm not using the injuries as an excuse, but they are a fact of life. Read what I said again, I said because we weren't at the required pitch and intensity, Argentina blew us away, and because it took such an effort to get back into the game, we were spent when Argentina came again. That's where the subs would have been useful, but we shouldn't have gotten ourselves in such a game chase early on. The opening 20 were the problem.
We got ourselves into a game chase because we didn't prepare for it. Over-confidence was all over that first 20 minutes yesterday. Poor line speed in defence, poor kicking and poor communication
Argentina played the same way they did versus NZ. I don't believe coaching staff underestimated them - I do believe the players did.
You know yourself you're going out of the dressing room to play a team you expect to beat. And when it goes wrong -sometimes you can't turn it around.
We've never won a game under JS where we're behind at half time. The game plan isn't setup for it
Possibly. Certainly something was off in the opening exchanges, and our intensity. And you are right, it is hard to shift that, but in fairness to the players, they did raise the intensity levels, and we started winning the breakdown, and we suddenly started making yards. But it took so much out of us I think we had nothing left when we hit 60-65 minutes.
I would agree with you that that is a symptom of poor mental preparation of some sort.
As for the gameplan, I have been worried about the reliance on the box kick for a while. Good teams gobble that stuff up. And in the opening, even our bloody kick chases were slow and ponderous. The entire team seemed to suffer from that dreaded malaise that all coaches hate to see. Players waiting for the next player to do something to lift it, instead of taking it upon themselves to do something big to lift the team.
Ireland started flat, but maybe that's partly because the Northern hemisphere tempo to games.
I've often heard the sage phrase that you have to 'earn the right to go wide'. Basically you're supposed to spend the first 20 minutes exchanging kicks and bashing the opposition with your pack and only then open up the play when you think you've tenderised them. Argentina went bananas from the off and caught Ireland in the headlights.
it WAS a mental issue i think, but not a in the sense that the players underestimated Argentina. they are pros, and well coached pros at that. a bunch of pros who have just waved goodbye to 5 certain starters. 5 of their very best players. i really really dont see how they would have taken Argentina lightly.
they went out full of intentions etc but just didnt start as brightly as they wanted and Argentina were so good yesterday, they were punished early. and AZ makes a good point that a lot of effort and heart was then wasted trying to get back into the game. wasted is probably the wrong word there but, it takes its toll, things didnt go our way, unforced errors a plenty.
i think a lot of supporters really thought this was really our year to at least make it to the semis!
disappointing!
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 19, 2015, 10:22:18 AM
Ireland started flat, but maybe that's partly because the Northern hemisphere tempo to games.
I've often heard the sage phrase that you have to 'earn the right to go wide'. Basically you're supposed to spend the first 20 minutes exchanging kicks and bashing the opposition with your pack and only then open up the play when you think you've tenderised them. Argentina went bananas from the off and caught Ireland in the headlights.
Not so sure about earning the right to go wide, but you certainly have to set the tone for the game, and from minute 1 Argentina were more physical and that allows you to do whatever the hell you like. They just blew our lads off the ball, and every tackle or ruck, the momentum was towards our goal, even when we had the ball in hand.
That's a serious issue to have!
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 19, 2015, 10:22:18 AM
Ireland started flat, but maybe that's partly because the Northern hemisphere tempo to games.
I've often heard the sage phrase that you have to 'earn the right to go wide'. Basically you're supposed to spend the first 20 minutes exchanging kicks and bashing the opposition with your pack and only then open up the play when you think you've tenderised them. Argentina went bananas from the off and caught Ireland in the headlights.
But that's the way they play in the Rugby Championship. What I couldn't get over was why our defence was aligned for a kick chase game against a team that run the ball.
It was bizarre.
Whilst watching the All blacks in the line for the anthems on Saturday evening my wife asked me where the fat ones who push in the scrum were and it was only then it struck me how lean they are in general, no real bulky lads on that team at all and when they played against a disheveled France, the speed and intensity of their play blew the French away. Their handling, offlaoding, even of second and third choice forwards would put many backs in the 6N's to shame.
They avoided the 'set piece' so loved by the 6N teams like a plague, quick throw ins, scrum ball is in and out with minimum fuss, not many mauls either and even at that, they held their own on the French put in, but absolutely creamed the French in open play.
They were a joy to behold, but you may sense that SA will try to get them into an arm wrestle in a slow moving game, but it'll be hard to see anything other than a New Zealand win.
As for Ireland, the Pumas were clearly the better team and initially opened Ireland up at will quickly going 17 points up. In all fairness to the Irish they battled their way back into the game and their period of dominance didn't get the points it deserved and they'd run out of steam when Madigan missed the kick to bring it to 23 each. After that the energy levels were still with the Pumas who were very fortunate to have 15 still on the field, but overall they had more about them, once again their handling, offloading far superior to Irelands.
Darcy in a recent article suggested that offloading is not something young rugby players in Ireland are coached or encouraged to do, but he reckons that's changing, so we're already a few years behind these other teams in this regard.
Scots were very unlucky and gave it a right go and probably deserved a semi-final spot, but for that little bit of wit when it mattered most even if the Scottish prop was harshly done for being offside at the end with the ball coming off the Aussie before it got to him. Should never have got to that. All they had to do was secure the line out and play out the clock!!
What I always wondered about was the end of season trips to the Southern Hemisphere, we don't seem to take them serious (apart from Clive Woodwards England) as they just wee glorified holidays and we regularly get tanked, but somehow we read everything into their equivalents in November when the southern hemisphere teams are at the end of their season.
Surely if Ireland are serious about competing with the best, the time to prove it is in June and July in NZ, Australia and South Africa!!
Quote from: johnneycool on October 19, 2015, 10:38:11 AM
Whilst watching the All blacks in the line for the anthems on Saturday evening my wife asked me where the fat ones who push in the scrum were and it was only then it struck me how lean they are in general, no real bulky lads on that team at all and when they played against a disheveled France, the speed and intensity of their play blew the French away. Their handling, offlaoding, even of second and third choice forwards would put many backs in the 6N's to shame.
They avoided the 'set piece' so loved by the 6N teams like a plague, quick throw ins, scrum ball is in and out with minimum fuss, not many mauls either and even at that, they held their own on the French put in, but absolutely creamed the French in open play.
They were a joy to behold, but you may sense that SA will try to get them into an arm wrestle in a slow moving game, but it'll be hard to see anything other than a New Zealand win.
As for Ireland, the Pumas were clearly the better team and initially opened Ireland up at will quickly going 17 points up. In all fairness to the Irish they battled their way back into the game and their period of dominance didn't get the points it deserved and they'd run out of steam when Madigan missed the kick to bring it to 23 each. After that the energy levels were still with the Pumas who were very fortunate to have 15 still on the field, but overall they had more about them, once again their handling, offloading far superior to Irelands.
Darcy in a recent article suggested that offloading is not something young rugby players in Ireland are coached or encouraged to do, but he reckons that's changing, so we're already a few years behind these other teams in this regard.
Scots were very unlucky and gave it a right go and probably deserved a semi-final spot, but for that little bit of wit when it mattered most even if the Scottish prop was harshly done for being offside at the end with the ball coming off the Aussie before it got to him. Should never have got to that. All they had to do was secure the line out and play out the clock!!
What I always wondered about was the end of season trips to the Southern Hemisphere, we don't seem to take them serious (apart from Clive Woodwards England) as they just wee glorified holidays and we regularly get tanked, but somehow we read everything into their equivalents in November when the southern hemisphere teams are at the end of their season.
Surely if Ireland are serious about competing with the best, the time to prove it is in June and July in NZ, Australia and South Africa!!
I remarked on that the first time I saw them at this world cup. I think I posted it here as well. And yet, I think the All Blacks were actually heavier in the pack than the French. Lean and Heavy versus just bulk I suppose. They certainly play at pace, and I'd say that's the body shape they need to do that.
The Southern Hemisphere teams seem so much fitter and more mobile. Ireland played a kick chase game yesterday but didn't have the energy for the chase part. They looked like they were dead on there feet.
Quote from: dferg on October 19, 2015, 10:43:45 AM
The Southern Hemisphere teams seem so much fitter and more mobile. Ireland played a kick chase game yesterday but didn't have the energy for the chase part. They looked like they were dead on there feet.
are you now including Argentina ?
Quote from: dferg on October 19, 2015, 10:43:45 AM
The Southern Hemisphere teams seem so much fitter and more mobile. Ireland played a kick chase game yesterday but didn't have the energy for the chase part. They looked like they were dead on there feet.
they play a different game. They seek space- we seek contact.
Less energy wasted because they spend less time tackling. However you have to be fitter to play their game. You have to be bulkier to play ours. But as we've seen bulk doesn't equate to power
And by "we" I mean the Northern Hemisphere.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2015, 10:46:46 AM
Quote from: dferg on October 19, 2015, 10:43:45 AM
The Southern Hemisphere teams seem so much fitter and more mobile. Ireland played a kick chase game yesterday but didn't have the energy for the chase part. They looked like they were dead on there feet.
are you now including Argentina ?
Yes I definitely underestimated them, though I did say about 2 weeks ago that the winner looked like it would come from the Southern Hemisphere based on the first few games :)
Quote from: dferg on October 04, 2015, 06:11:58 PM
Hard to see past a Southern Hemisphere winner.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 10:30:11 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 19, 2015, 10:22:18 AM
Ireland started flat, but maybe that's partly because the Northern hemisphere tempo to games.
I've often heard the sage phrase that you have to 'earn the right to go wide'. Basically you're supposed to spend the first 20 minutes exchanging kicks and bashing the opposition with your pack and only then open up the play when you think you've tenderised them. Argentina went bananas from the off and caught Ireland in the headlights.
Not so sure about earning the right to go wide, but you certainly have to set the tone for the game, and from minute 1 Argentina were more physical and that allows you to do whatever the hell you like. They just blew our lads off the ball, and every tackle or ruck, the momentum was towards our goal, even when we had the ball in hand.
That's a serious issue to have!
Absolutely, Ireland were falling off tackles, but this was mainly down to the speed at which Argentina were shifting the focus of the game. Against 6 nations teams you'd expect narrower bosh for the opening exchanges. I think Ireland were like the boxer who needs to get hit before he realises he's in the fight.
I still reckon that if Sexton was there Ireland would probably have sent the Argentinian wide players back into corners a lot more retrieving kicks. With Madigan there was little chance of pinning them back. The only deep kick I remember him trying went out on the full.
Quote from: dferg on October 19, 2015, 10:50:29 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2015, 10:46:46 AM
Quote from: dferg on October 19, 2015, 10:43:45 AM
The Southern Hemisphere teams seem so much fitter and more mobile. Ireland played a kick chase game yesterday but didn't have the energy for the chase part. They looked like they were dead on there feet.
are you now including Argentina ?
Yes I definitely underestimated them, though I did say about 2 weeks ago that the winner looked like it would come from the Southern Hemisphere based on the first few games :)
Quote from: dferg on October 04, 2015, 06:11:58 PM
Hard to see past a Southern Hemisphere winner.
you called it ! I'd love to see the Puma's get to the final (which they have a great chance of doing) and really put it up to NZ. Though SA could cause a shock, and it would be a fairly major shock. Its not beyond the realms.
Everything AZ is saying is reasonable in itself, but I think Dave Hannigan nailed the long-term problem on Twitter (https://twitter.com/daveyhannigan/status/655751005418729472):
QuoteIn terms of overinflated expectations matched by failure to deliver in major tournaments, Irish rugby starting to resemble English soccer
Harsh, but fair. This is the eighth World Cup and we haven't won a single knockout game. And the thing is, I don't know the question to ask, let alone the answer. The Tri Nations/Rugby Championship is clearly a superior competition - this is not news - but the Six Nations is at the heart of rugby in these islands. The moment you start picking at it, you run the risk of the whole thing unravelling. The mediocrity, for the want of a less inflammatory term, is built-in.
Come on Argentina.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 19, 2015, 10:57:22 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 10:30:11 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 19, 2015, 10:22:18 AM
Ireland started flat, but maybe that's partly because the Northern hemisphere tempo to games.
I've often heard the sage phrase that you have to 'earn the right to go wide'. Basically you're supposed to spend the first 20 minutes exchanging kicks and bashing the opposition with your pack and only then open up the play when you think you've tenderised them. Argentina went bananas from the off and caught Ireland in the headlights.
Not so sure about earning the right to go wide, but you certainly have to set the tone for the game, and from minute 1 Argentina were more physical and that allows you to do whatever the hell you like. They just blew our lads off the ball, and every tackle or ruck, the momentum was towards our goal, even when we had the ball in hand.
That's a serious issue to have!
Absolutely, Ireland were falling off tackles, but this was mainly down to the speed at which Argentina were shifting the focus of the game. Against 6 nations teams you'd expect narrower bosh for the opening exchanges. I think Ireland were like the boxer who needs to get hit before he realises he's in the fight.
I still reckon that if Sexton was there Ireland would probably have sent the Argentinian wide players back into corners a lot more retrieving kicks. With Madigan there was little chance of pinning them back. The only deep kick I remember him trying went out on the full.
Falling off tackles is one thing, but being murdered at our rucks, and their rucks was another as well. I just think it was a cumulative effect of the intensity they had, and we didn't.
Is the timing of the Rugby Championship and 6 nations an advantage to the southern hemisphere teams?
I wouldn't know too much about Rugby so should the Argie no 3 have seen red for that tackle?
Ireland is a small island with only have 3 1/2 teams to pick from and a large part of the population don't play rugby so it's hard to get to the level of teams like the All Blacks but in the NH the emphasis seems to be on eating a few extra steaks so that players bulk up then both teams charge at each other, the strongest team then generally wins. The SH teams are at least equally based on agility. It's ok having the ability to drive a guy back if he runs straight at you but if you can't catch him you can't tackle him. There is not enough players like Jason Robinson in the northern hemisphere that can cut a team open using there agility and pace. I think the Foley tries against England showed the difference in the type of players the southern hemisphere have.
And we don't trust those sort of guys. Zebo was probably lucky to make the squad, and was nowhere near the team for the big games.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 19, 2015, 11:06:34 AM
Is the timing of the Rugby Championship and 6 nations an advantage to the southern hemisphere teams?
I wouldn't know too much about Rugby so should the Argie no 3 have seen red for that tackle?
TMO decided that he led with his arm going into the ruck, therefore fine.
However, to most it looked like he threw himself in head first. Didn't look like he deliberately targeted anyone around the head area (which would have been dangerous play and an immediate red) but deserved a yellow. He'd already picked a yellow up in the first half, so he should have walked.
Quote from: gallsman on October 19, 2015, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 19, 2015, 11:06:34 AM
Is the timing of the Rugby Championship and 6 nations an advantage to the southern hemisphere teams?
I wouldn't know too much about Rugby so should the Argie no 3 have seen red for that tackle?
TMO decided that he led with his arm going into the ruck, therefore fine.
However, to most it looked like he threw himself in head first. Didn't look like he deliberately targeted anyone around the head area (which would have been dangerous play and an immediate red) but deserved a yellow. He'd already picked a yellow up in the first half, so he should have walked.
TMO did *not* say that. It wasn't fine, it was a penalty. He said he led with his left arm, but he was about to say he threw his right shoulder in when Garces cut him off. Plain to see the left arm but the right shoulder was what made the contact. You could tell Garces knew he would have to send him off. I bet if he wasn't on a yellow, he'd have received one right there.
Quote from: dferg on October 19, 2015, 11:14:55 AM
Ireland is a small island with only have 3 1/2 teams to pick from and a large part of the population don't play rugby so it's hard to get to the level of teams like the All Blacks but in the NH the emphasis seems to be on eating a few extra steaks so that players bulk up then both teams charge at each other, the strongest team then generally wins. The SH teams are at least equally based on agility. It's ok having the ability to drive a guy back if he runs straight at you but if you can't catch him you can't tackle him. There is not enough players like Jason Robinson in the northern hemisphere that can cut a team open using there agility and pace. I think the Foley tries against England showed the difference in the type of players the southern hemisphere have.
Crash ball rugby. It's a bit simplistic to say that the SH teams are all based on agility. The South African team would generally be the biggest beasts in world rugby. They obviously have quality players in the backline, but overall they'd be nowhere near the skill level of the All Blacks (or, as it transpires, Japan).
As for some of the comments here calling people out for "almost being happy Ireland lost", that's absolute horseshit. What people feel is vindication after an overwhelming display of arrogance and rugby snobbery. Comments to the effect of "South Africa can't be that good, they lost to Japan" completely ignore the fact that the Japan performance that day probably would have beaten everyone in the tournament outside maybe the All Blacks and New Zealand. The Tier 2 countries have come on absolutely massively in this tournament and I don't understand where the arrogance comes from - anyone in Ireland's group would have had it very, very tough against Georgia for example. We need to realise that we do not belong at the very top table. Instead, we reside firmly in a second tier that is much broader than originally thought.
Ireland were ranked third before the Argentina game. I suppose it depends where you draw the line at the top table. I would say Ireland, all things being equal, are competitive with the likes of Argentina, South Africa, England, France, Wales. Probably 5th or 6th in real rankings. If that's not top table, then so be it, they are not at the top table.
I think they are a level below Australia and New Zealand.
I think the likes of Japan and Georgia have probably closed the gap a bit, and even Romania would have the likes of Fiji and Italy in their sights.
Quote from: deiseach on October 19, 2015, 10:59:22 AM
Everything AZ is saying is reasonable in itself, but I think Dave Hannigan nailed the long-term problem on Twitter (https://twitter.com/daveyhannigan/status/655751005418729472):
QuoteIn terms of overinflated expectations matched by failure to deliver in major tournaments, Irish rugby starting to resemble English soccer
Harsh, but fair. This is the eighth World Cup and we haven't won a single knockout game. And the thing is, I don't know the question to ask, let alone the answer. The Tri Nations/Rugby Championship is clearly a superior competition - this is not news - but the Six Nations is at the heart of rugby in these islands. The moment you start picking at it, you run the risk of the whole thing unravelling. The mediocrity, for the want of a less inflammatory term, is built-in.
Come on Argentina.
Think same chap is not keen on rugby . Ireland went in to RWC with realistic hopes of reaching a semi final . Serious rugby folk thought that based on last two years . Of course certain media went OTT on this.
Injuries had a huge bearing but Argentina were just better yesterday.
The Southern Hemisphere teams are moving the ball quicker and playing a less physically demanding game. They avoid contact .
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 11:42:33 AM
Ireland were ranked third before the Argentina game. I suppose it depends where you draw the line at the top table. I would say Ireland, all things being equal, are competitive with the likes of Argentina, South Africa, England, France, Wales. Probably 5th or 6th in real rankings. If that's not top table, then so be it, they are not at the top table.
I think they are a level below Australia and New Zealand.
I think the likes of Japan and Georgia have probably closed the gap a bit, and even Romania would have the likes of Fiji and Italy in their sights.
I put NZ out in front at the top table and since Cheika came in, Australia have joined them. South Africa are a bit below them with the "better" 6 Nations teams and Argentina, then the "weaker" 6 Nations teams and the "newcomers" are a bit behind that. With the exception of NZ, obviously on any given day, any top team can beat one of the others (Aus-Sco yesterday for example) but at this stage I think the gap between what I'm labeling Tier 1 and Tier 2 is bigger than that between Tiers 2 and 3.
Canada were also largely excellent in this tournament and should have beaten Italy. Considering the disparity between the finances and infrastructure in some of these countries and the top teams, their achievements are all the more remarkable.
Is it time to look at fully democratizing World Rugby? Look at what a few years of regularly competing against the SANZAR teams has done for Argentina. Granted they were coming from a much stronger base (their 2007 team was bloody brilliant), but the likes of Romania and Georgia need to be testing themselves more regularly against the 6 Nations teams rather than beating on the likes of Spain etc in the ENC.
I think so. Romania and Georgia are certainly worthy of consideration for the 6 nations. They are no worse than Italy were when they were invited in. I wonder about the likes of Fiji, Samoa and Tonga though. It might be an unpopular thing to say, but I thought they were disappointing in this tournament. Japan were a breath of fresh air, but the rest of the pacific islands (I know I'm taking a liberty including Japan in that term) were poor. But is their an appetite down under to help them? New Zealand, for all their achievements and standing, have raped those countries for years for their best players. Would they really like to see Samoa, Tonga and Fiji given a better tournament to play in? Would they let them into an expanded Rugby Championship?
I have my doubts.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 19, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 09:47:57 AM
In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.
AZ Wales had far more injuries then us and came out of a much tougher pool
They haven't complained about injuries once- they just got on with it. Gatland again today- injuries are not an excuse he said - we had the chances to win it.
Just as a point of information Argentina are down 3 tight-head props, and their first choice second row(who got a 9 week ban in the first game) and their first choice centre yesterday.
Injuries in a game like rugby union are just an excuse. All teams have them.
We lost because we were beaten by a better team and in my opinion we grossly underestimated them. If we really thought they could beat us we'd have prepared to defend our wider channels better. One of our wingers missed five tackles out of nine yesterday.
The 6 Nations is a second rate competition-we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.
It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.
Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC
did they?
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 11:57:57 AM
I think so. Romania and Georgia are certainly worthy of consideration for the 6 nations. They are no worse than Italy were when they were invited in. I wonder about the likes of Fiji, Samoa and Tonga though. It might be an unpopular thing to say, but I thought they were disappointing in this tournament. Japan were a breath of fresh air, but the rest of the pacific islands (I know I'm taking a liberty including Japan in that term) were poor. But is their an appetite down under to help them? New Zealand, for all their achievements and standing, have raped those countries for years for their best players. Would they really like to see Samoa, Tonga and Fiji given a better tournament to play in? Would they let them into an expanded Rugby Championship?
I have my doubts.
Fiji could probably stand their ground. Samoa and Tonga aren't at that level. Tonga's win against France four years ago is a distant memory.
As you've pointed out, many of these countries could be better if they had their full pool of players available to them. Part of the issue here is the pillaging of youth players for the club teams in Aus and NZ but there is an additional, and more sinister, complication in that it's an open secret that professional teams, especially in France, will insist on Pacific Island players giving up on playing for their countries before they sign them.
It will be interesting to see what happens if/when there's a push to include Georgia and perhaps also Romania in an expanded Northern hemisphere tournament. The 6 Nations isn't administered by World Rugby, so even if democratised, there'll be little influence there and I imagine the English and French clubs wouldn't take too kindly to the tournament being extended for another three or four weeks. It would hopefully result in greater pressure on the established unions to budge though.
Alot of the Island nations' best players are poached by the big two and NZ in particular. If they had their full pick the Pacific Islanders team that represented them all would be a force at international level.
Brutal weekend for the Northern sides. We don't go for the bruises like Wales, England and France do but we don't have the cutting edge southern teams, SA excepted, have.
We're caught in a middle ground where we're better than the other European sides but the game we have to play to outfox them seems to leave us susceptible to the quick off-loading game played in the south.
Samoa played some played brilliant Rugby in the final group game against Scotland. They couldn't keep up the intensity in the second half but was great to watch. A pity they hadn't played like that from the beginning of the tournament
Quote from: Syferus on October 19, 2015, 12:44:59 PM
Alot of the Island nations' best players are poached by the big two and NZ in particular. If they had their full pick the Pacific Islanders team that represented them all would be a force at international level.
Brutal weekend for the Northern sides. We don't go for the bruises like Wales, England and France do but we don't have the cutting edge southern teams, SA excepted, have.
We're caught in a middle ground where we're better than the other European sides but the game we have to play to outfox them seems to leave us susceptible to the quick off-loading game played in the south.
I don't really think we're that much better than the other 6 Nations teams, Italy and probably Scotland aside, although I imagine this tournament will boost Scotland enormously. We've won the last two 6 Nations and deservedly so, but only on points difference.
This tournament is the deathknell of the ahem "fat" international rugby player imo.
Quote from: gallsman on October 19, 2015, 01:01:54 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 19, 2015, 12:44:59 PM
Alot of the Island nations' best players are poached by the big two and NZ in particular. If they had their full pick the Pacific Islanders team that represented them all would be a force at international level.
Brutal weekend for the Northern sides. We don't go for the bruises like Wales, England and France do but we don't have the cutting edge southern teams, SA excepted, have.
We're caught in a middle ground where we're better than the other European sides but the game we have to play to outfox them seems to leave us susceptible to the quick off-loading game played in the south.
I don't really think we're that much better than the other 6 Nations teams, Italy and probably Scotland aside, although I imagine this tournament will boost Scotland enormously. We've won the last two 6 Nations and deservedly so, but only on points difference.
Only one of the challengers not to play Bruiserball. Of all the teams who have a chance of living with the southern ones it should be us. Indeed we've proved we can multiple times just not in the WC apparently. Need to uptime our players' intelligence in attack and not just in defense. Schmidt will hopefully take stock for the Spring and set us on that road.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2015, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 19, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
The 6 Nations is a second rate competition-we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.
did they?
Can you prove it didn't happen?
Quote from: deiseach on October 19, 2015, 01:16:42 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2015, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 19, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
The 6 Nations is a second rate competition-we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.
did they?
Can you prove it didn't happen?
I've emailed Maradona. Will update asap
Quote from: Canalman on October 19, 2015, 01:08:44 PM
This tournament is the deathknell of the ahem "fat" international rugby player imo.
Too much Lucozade! In all seriousness you have a point when playing southern hemisphere sides except SA. Watched a replay of the game and Big Mike Ross couldn't make it to the breakdowns or tackles. He's included for the scrum but how many scrums was there and what was the difference in the scrum when McGrath came on? McGrath could at least offer some mobility. Ross will actually perform fine in the 6 nations should he be included as the way the other sides play suits his bulk/size.
The rugby calendar is pretty full so a 7 or 8 nations rugby championship in Europe is not going to happen. The only hope for Georgia and Romania is if promotion and relegation is introduced and I think that is unlikely. Rugby in both Italy and Scotland is struggling and if either nation is out of the 6 nations for a year or 2 well that could be terminal.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 19, 2015, 01:44:43 PM
The rugby calendar is pretty full so a 7 or 8 nations rugby championship in Europe is not going to happen. The only hope for Georgia and Romania is if promotion and relegation is introduced and I think that is unlikely. Rugby in both Italy and Scotland is struggling and if either nation is out of the 6 nations for a year or 2 well that could be terminal.
I agree it's unlikely, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed and analysed to determine a way forward. It's a fundamental problem when you have a professional sport based around club competition with national team representation. Unless centrally controlled (which the Celtic nations have, thankfully), you'll always end up with club priorities vs country priorities. And given that in England and France the clubs pay the players, that's fair enough really. Growing the game globally is good for everyone involved in the long run, and that will only work with buy in from the already established nations and their clubs.
The set-up of world rugby in terms of votes is one thing that can change pretty quickly.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2015, 01:36:23 PM
I've emailed Maradona. Will update asap
Did you deep-fry the email?
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 11:57:57 AM
I think so. Romania and Georgia are certainly worthy of consideration for the 6 nations. They are no worse than Italy were when they were invited in. I wonder about the likes of Fiji, Samoa and Tonga though. It might be an unpopular thing to say, but I thought they were disappointing in this tournament. Japan were a breath of fresh air, but the rest of the pacific islands (I know I'm taking a liberty including Japan in that term) were poor. But is their an appetite down under to help them? New Zealand, for all their achievements and standing, have raped those countries for years for their best players. Would they really like to see Samoa, Tonga and Fiji given a better tournament to play in? Would they let them into an expanded Rugby Championship?
I have my doubts.
Have they though? The majority of the All Blacks 'islanders' were actually born in New Zealand and the Likes of Tonga/Samoa and Fiji have loads of New Zealand born players playing for them.
Quote from: Canalman on October 18, 2015, 11:35:12 PM
Scotland / Australia one of the best games of rugby I have ever seen. The second half went by in the blink of an eye.
Know at least two people who I presume will be trying to offload 300 Euro tickets th ey bought for the semi finals full sure Ireland would be there. Wish them well but can't see too much of a take up with two SH teams in it.
Surely Ireland don't do offloads??
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 19, 2015, 03:11:45 PM
Quote from: Canalman on October 18, 2015, 11:35:12 PM
Scotland / Australia one of the best games of rugby I have ever seen. The second half went by in the blink of an eye.
Know at least two people who I presume will be trying to offload 300 Euro tickets th ey bought for the semi finals full sure Ireland would be there. Wish them well but can't see too much of a take up with two SH teams in it.
Surely Ireland don't do offloads??
Very good.
Suppose they will be now deemed "second phase tickets".
They certainly won't be getting over the gain line.
Quote from: gallsman on October 19, 2015, 11:36:02 AM
. Comments to the effect of "South Africa can't be that good, they lost to Japan" completely ignore the fact that the Japan performance that day probably would have beaten everyone in the tournament outside maybe the All Blacks and New Zealand.
Are they not the one and the same? ;)
/Jim.
Haven't really read through the posts lads but what's the solution now moving forward?
I think the 6 Nations have to go for bonus points for tries scored if we ever want to see a NH team challenging again.
As for Ireland where do we need strengthening?
Areas I feel we need to look at are:
Front Row - Mike Ross really struggled yesterday. The man has been a soldier for us!
Second Row - Realistically we have 3 international standard players here and with Ryan's recent injury record its essential we develop more
Back row - Probably the one area of the field we do tend to produce a high volume of players. Volume is one thing power and ability is another. Bar his try the gulf between Jordi and POM was vast. We've spoken before about young O'Donoghue at Munster - perhaps a bit raw but we'll need to fast track him.
Scrum Half - Really need to look at this area. Murray needs to be told to speed the thing up and not take that extra second to set himself - vital at test level. Redden getting no younger and Boss gone in my opinion. Who are the other options? McGrath cant even get a game for Leinster - very disappointing.
Out Half - Madigan showed real promise in this tournament. Lets be honest none of us thought he had the French performance in him. Yes yesterday there were a few iffy moments but he's certainly a good back up. I'm no fan of Paddy Jackson so who else could we look at? Indiana what about Ross Byrne? Do you rate him?
Wings - Can we please get our best finisher in the squad! Yes Gilroy might not be the best footballer in the Dave Kearney mould but jesus he can finish and at 24 has plenty in him! Any other Academy players?
Centres - Really need to look at this area. Darren Cave - no thanks! Just not at this level. I'd rather see Stuart McCloskey given a run. He's raw as hell but has freakish power and good hands! Is Harrison Brewer developing at Leinster? We've already spoken about Ringrose. Lets get him fast tracked.
Full Back - This is an area of concern. No real back up to Kearney long term. Zebo has talent but lacks the power perhaps. Still would give him a go.
That was just a brain dump so dont take it overly serious. Open to further suggestions/corrections!!
I'd like to see young Holland at Munster get a few games with the province this year. He's only a gasún, but he looks to have the skills. Second row is a worry. Maybe Foley can take another step forward, but Henderson would prefer to be in the back row probably, and donnacha Ryan is no spring chicken. Toner will be there for a while, but we need another lock.
Is it time for Ireland to ease off on chasing 6 nations and take a more long term approach? They've won the last two, though haven't really inspired.
Looking at the 2016 fixtures; Wales first, 6 days later a trip to Paris to play a presumably resurgent French. Then England in Twickenham in week 3.
I'd have my doubts that Ireland can win all three, especially with an ageing team. Maybe just accept this likelihood and try a different approach. New faces, a more creative style - ball in hand, risk taking, offloads etc.
Schmidt should also note that there is a prior form in managers playing themselves out of a job in the 6 nations campaign after a WC. Eddie O'Sullivan and Brian Ashton 2008, Kidney 2012 (he got another year but was a goner after 2012).
Will 2016 be another campaign that seemingly hinges on how much sellotape we can put on crocked big name players, or will it be a tournament where Ireland show more adventure and are prepared to lose 2-3 games?
Weren't Argentina great to watch - I thought it was an awesome display and to think it took them 28 years to develop into playing like that.
Its taken Ireland 136 years to develop into the crap that we have to endure - even when they are winning its hard to watch. Lets keep going to we get 3 metres out and then we'll all fall over the line and get a try!!!!! DUNG!
Quote from: WT4E on October 19, 2015, 05:56:09 PM
Weren't Argentina great to watch - I thought it was an awesome display and to think it took them 28 years to develop into playing like that.
Its taken Ireland 136 years to develop into the crap that we have to endure - even when they are winning its hard to watch. Lets keep going to we get 3 metres out and then we'll all fall over the line and get a try!!!!! DUNG!
I agree with your first paragraph. I wouldn't lose much sleep and don't when Ireland lose. Hopefully they can reproduce it and send the Aussies packing. Don't watch enough rugby to have an opinion on your second.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 10:08:48 AM
Yeah, but that's the breaks of refereeing. Look at Scotland! At a macro level, Ireland started the game flat, for whatever reason, and they paid the penalty.
The fact that we had a situation where we were 3 points down, and probably should have been against 14 men, and then missed a kick to draw level, reinforces my point that there wasn't some massive talent deficit.
It reminded me of Kilkenny matches. Competitive up to three quarters of the match and then they pull away. The other team (*any county) hit the post and then Kilkenny went down the field and scored a goal and followed up with 3 more sort of thing .
Not a talent deficit just better handling/stickwork etc
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 19, 2015, 05:47:37 PM
Is it time for Ireland to ease off on chasing 6 nations and take a more long term approach? They've won the last two, though haven't really inspired.
Looking at the 2016 fixtures; Wales first, 6 days later a trip to Paris to play a presumably resurgent French. Then England in Twickenham in week 3.
I'd have my doubts that Ireland can win all three, especially with an ageing team. Maybe just accept this likelihood and try a different approach. New faces, a more creative style - ball in hand, risk taking, offloads etc.
Schmidt should also note that there is a prior form in managers playing themselves out of a job in the 6 nations campaign after a WC. Eddie O'Sullivan and Brian Ashton 2008, Kidney 2012 (he got another year but was a goner after 2012).
Will 2016 be another campaign that seemingly hinges on how much sellotape we can put on crocked big name players, or will it be a tournament where Ireland show more adventure and are prepared to lose 2-3 games?
If Ireland went alone I wouldn't think there would be much patience in the media or amongst fans...
What about sending elite young players to NZ for a year ? Maybe England , France and Wales might start moving in the same direction?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 19, 2015, 06:09:18 PM
Quote from: WT4E on October 19, 2015, 05:56:09 PM
Weren't Argentina great to watch - I thought it was an awesome display and to think it took them 28 years to develop into playing like that.
Its taken Ireland 136 years to develop into the crap that we have to endure - even when they are winning its hard to watch. Lets keep going to we get 3 metres out and then we'll all fall over the line and get a try!!!!! DUNG!
I agree with your first paragraph. I wouldn't lose much sleep and don't when Ireland lose. Hopefully they can reproduce it and send the Aussies packing. Don't watch enough rugby to have an opinion on your second.
No expert myself just calling it as I see it!
Argentina have Graham Henry as assistant coach, he would know all about good attacking Rugby.
Everyone's a non-expert.
Quote from: seafoid on October 19, 2015, 06:11:15 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 10:08:48 AM
Yeah, but that's the breaks of refereeing. Look at Scotland! At a macro level, Ireland started the game flat, for whatever reason, and they paid the penalty.
The fact that we had a situation where we were 3 points down, and probably should have been against 14 men, and then missed a kick to draw level, reinforces my point that there wasn't some massive talent deficit.
It reminded me of Kilkenny matches. Competitive up to three quarters of the match and then they pull away. The other team (*any county) hit the post and then Kilkenny went down the field and scored a goal and followed up with 3 more sort of thing .
Not a talent deficit just better handling/stickwork etc
Not at all. Kilkenny don't build up 20 point leads and let you back in.
Watched the match again to see where it went wrong for the goys. Don't think it has been mentioned; the Argentine tan. Seemed more convincing and possibly played a major part. Especially seemed to result in the Kearney's losing focus. May have been the glare that made them miss all those tackles. Anyway, 6 Nations far more important.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 19, 2015, 04:40:13 PM
I think the 6 Nations have to go for bonus points for tries scored if we ever want to see a NH team challenging again.
yes!
very easy to implement and it should make for better rugby straight away...
Quote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2015, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 19, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 19, 2015, 09:47:57 AM
In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.
The 6 Nations is a second rate competition-we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.
It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.
Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC
did they?
Harsh as it might seem to northern hemisphere rugby, which is taking such a kicking right now, it may well be that Argentina got lucky.
For it may well be that the flat refusal by the Six Nations to their request for entry in 2007 was the best thing that could have happened to them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11941782/Fast-improving-Argentina-dodged-a-bullet-when-the-Six-Nations-rejected-their-proposal-to-join-the-competition.html
Very reasoned and sensible article from Kieran Shannon . . .
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/prophets-of-doom-having-field-day-offloading-blame-360307.html
Quote from: screenexile on October 20, 2015, 09:47:16 AM
Very reasoned and sensible article from Kieran Shannon . . .
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/prophets-of-doom-having-field-day-offloading-blame-360307.html
Good article SE. I think a bit of realism has to prevail in the coming days. When I started watching rugby in the early 90's Ireland used to continually get hammered. We have come a long way in the intervening period. However with a few subtle tweaks we can go further. Regarding offloads I think Argentina only had 1 more over the 80 mins than Ireland.
When the grim reapers in the media continually talk about us not doing it seeps into the psyche.
QuoteWatched the match again to see where it went wrong for the goys. Don't think it has been mentioned; the Argentine tan. Seemed more convincing and possibly played a major part. Especially seemed to result in the Kearney's losing focus. May have been the glare that made them miss all those tackles. Anyway, 6 Nations far more important.
Dickhead
Good analysis as usual here:
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-defence-argentina-analysis-rwc-15-2398472-Oct2015/
How do ye add a jpeg on this craic.
Got an interesting graphic on player numbers - albeit from 2011
Quote from: seafoid on October 19, 2015, 06:15:38 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 19, 2015, 05:47:37 PM
Is it time for Ireland to ease off on chasing 6 nations and take a more long term approach? They've won the last two, though haven't really inspired.
Looking at the 2016 fixtures; Wales first, 6 days later a trip to Paris to play a presumably resurgent French. Then England in Twickenham in week 3.
I'd have my doubts that Ireland can win all three, especially with an ageing team. Maybe just accept this likelihood and try a different approach. New faces, a more creative style - ball in hand, risk taking, offloads etc.
Schmidt should also note that there is a prior form in managers playing themselves out of a job in the 6 nations campaign after a WC. Eddie O'Sullivan and Brian Ashton 2008, Kidney 2012 (he got another year but was a goner after 2012).
Will 2016 be another campaign that seemingly hinges on how much sellotape we can put on crocked big name players, or will it be a tournament where Ireland show more adventure and are prepared to lose 2-3 games?
If Ireland went alone I wouldn't think there would be much patience in the media or amongst fans...
You could be right. When Tarquin hires a butler, he wants him to be able to mix mojitos from the off and not learn on the job.
When his old man forks out for a box in the Aviva, he and his clients want to be entertained with winning rogby. All the time! Give me Sexto at 10 and not some kid. Don't be serving me prosecco instead of champagne roysh.
Here's a thought experiment. Imagine we could compete in the Rugby Championship as if we were in the Six Nations, overcoming time and travel. We'd get battered black (ho ho) and blue for four years but hey, we'd be ready for the World Cup! Excluding those who would revel in seeing Drico and Dorce and the like made to eat humble pie on a regular basis (an understandable impulse), is this something people really want?
Yeah, but you'd improve so you wouldn't be battered in 6,7,8 years.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 20, 2015, 10:24:39 AM
Good analysis as usual here:
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-defence-argentina-analysis-rwc-15-2398472-Oct2015/
Enjoyed reading that. Whether you agree with the message or not, great to see a bit of detailed analysis. With pictures. Pictures are great.
Listened to Off the Ball last night around 8ish when they had the rugby pundits on talking about the game.
Hadn't a clue alot of the time what they were talkin about............... gibberish to me. Reminded me of that Nicholas Cage war movie with the Navajo radio operators.
General consensus seems to be Argentina were rotters to start brightly and get an early lead. Ireland never seemed to recover from this currish behaviour.
Quote from: screenexile on October 20, 2015, 09:47:16 AM
Very reasoned and sensible article from Kieran Shannon . . .
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/prophets-of-doom-having-field-day-offloading-blame-360307.html
Kieran actually follows me on Twitter and I was part of a group that got sucked into various "discussions" with Ewan MacKenna and Miguel Delaney amongst others. They couldn't wait to stick the knife in. Pair of clowns! A pair of professional trolls.
Ha ha!!! You finally coming round to my view of the Brazilian bombshell? :)
I thought that article from the 42 was fairly spot on. But that's because it agreed with me :)
Ewan MacKenna is four corners of a bollix. I remember him getting into a right lather of indignation at how RTÉ were unwilling to confront Cian O'Connor in interviews on his history of doping. It was a pity Ewan had no other outlet for expressing his disquiet...
(http://www.ybig.ie/forum/uploads/22/newbilloherlihy_cover.jpg)
I think he's suffering from some sort of bi-polar syndrome, he contributes to the Kildare GAA forum. Sometime he makes intelligent points and other times he's off the wall. I don't follow him on twitter, a professional troll. I think that the Sunday Tribune made himself, Delaney, Hannigan and Howard cover the Leinster SCT at some stage or another and they have all been deeply scarred by that experience.
What I will say is that with the Tribune when they those guys were writing along with Shannon McEvoy and a few others it was the best Sunday newspaper for sports by a country mile and I for one miss it.
MacKenna joined here, think Heffo ran him though ;D
Ewan McKenna seems to be very bitter about everything and anything.
Whats the story with him living out in Brazil at the minute? He reporting on the Olympics or just getting away from it all.
He was there for the world cup too. And never gave up whinging :) I think he's married out there?
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 20, 2015, 02:20:39 PM
He was there for the world cup too. And never gave up whinging :) I think he's married out there?
He's from Athy they whinge from birth to grave. His wife is Brazilian, with WC and Olympics probably saw an opportunity. He has been picked up by the New York Times among others, so he has talent. Just needs to lose the negativity, just comes across as Bingo points out as bitter. Of course when you address him and his ilk as being deliberately negative you are told you can't handle realism. You can't win with those guys, professional writers on high horses.
McKenna can make some very good points when he's not whinging, particularly about drugs, MMA and various organisational shambolics across the Irish sporting sphere. His problem is that he has his pet issues where he flat out refuses to consider a viewpoint other than his own.
Delaney can be good when writing about soccer but he should pretty much shut the f**k up about any other sport. He's also nowhere near as smart as he thinks himself to be.
Quote from: gallsman on October 20, 2015, 02:29:50 PM
Delaney can be good when writing about soccer but he should pretty much shut the f**k up about any other sport. He's also nowhere near as smart as he thinks himself to be.
(http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/2058306/original/?width=610&version=2058306)
Ha! I remember that one. In fairness, Linehan got on like a tosser. In fairness to him, Delaney was actually being extremely complimentary about Father Ted and mentioned that he thought the third season bombed compared to the others.
Yeah, Linehan's reaction was a wee bit disproportionate. Made me laugh though.
Japan should get a special prize for being the only Northern H team to beat a team in the Rugby Championship .
Quote from: seafoid on October 20, 2015, 03:47:42 PM
Japan should get a special prize for being the only Northern H team to beat a team in the Rugby Championship .
The game Japan needed to target was Scotland, they got their arses handed back to them in that one.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/19/argentina-six-nations-pablo-bouza
After Argentina reached the World Cup semi-finals for the first time in 2007 they implored the Six Nations committee to allow them to join the championship, not least because most of their players were based in Europe. It did not happen and eight years on their presence in the last four is less of a shock than it was then and they have a lot to thank the major European nations for.
Instead of being caught up in the rough and tumble of the Six Nations they have spent the last four years in the Rugby Championship, honing their game so that it is now a mixture of power and finesse rather than centred on the set pieces. Their progress contrasts with that of Italy, who are in much the same state today as they were when they joined the old Five Nations at the start of the century.
Some of them boys referred to above take themselves awful serious. Worse still they take their twitter personas awful serious .
Another top article by D'Arcy
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby-world-cup-2015/gordon-d-arcy-coaching-players-younger-must-become-priority-1.2399288
Lads at Whiff of Cordite with a top article.
That Sinking Feeling
Irish fans have been left with a familiar feeling, as their team has once again bowed out before the semi-finals of a World Cup. It was a heartbreaking, spirit-sapping defeat, one that leaves as many questions as answers. Just why were Ireland so passive in defending the advantage line? Might Ireland have pushed on had we drawn level with a late penalty, or had the Argentinians been reduced to 14 men for the last 20 minutes? And might everything have been different if we had something more closely resembling a fully fit line-up to choose from?
We'll never know, but chances are with our best team on the pitch the scoreline might have been closer, but Argentina's ability to change the point of attack with ambition and accuracy would likely have caused too much trouble in any case. They are a better footballing team than Ireland, and proved here that rugby really is a simple game. For all the changes the game has seen in the last 20 years, the combination of fast ruck ball and accurate passing will go a long way towards winning rugby matches.
What frustrates more than anything though, is that this team has continued the long-standing trend of Irish team's failing to arrive at the emotional intensity required for a world cup quarter-final. Ireland have shown up and given their best for precisely one such game: the 1991 Gordon Hamilton match. In 1995 we were trounced by France, and same again in 2003 when the team had put huge energy reserves into two very hard pool games. In 2011, the team was out-thought and out-muscled by Wales, and here we were simply outplayed by an at times rampant Argentina. Joe Schmidt is highly regarded for his ability to prepare teams for tournament rugby matches, but the feral aggression levels appeared to be stuck on the sidelines with O'Connell, O'Mahony and O'Brien.
Schmidt will be thorough in dissecting the defeat, but he'll also question his own decisions at length too. Jordi Murphy looked a curious pick at 6, and despite a couple of big plays, he was mostly on the fringes of the game. Donnacha Ryan at 4 and Henderson at 6 would surely have brought a bit more aggression and presence to the breakdown – yet the pair never saw the pitch together, and Ryan only came in when the game was lost. Meanwhile, the decision to start Cian Healy also has to be questioned. Healy 'forced' his way into the team after a non-impacting appearance off the bench against Romania. His pre-tournament injury has simply not allowed him to get any sort of form going, and there are shades of trying to play someone into form in a global tournament here; such strategies have a high chance of failure. Jack McGrath was a huge step up in energy and impact when he came on.
At outhalf, Madigan went into the tournament as our designated finisher, a role he performed with aplomb against France, with Wee Jacko as Sexton's backup (Keatley's role in the Six Nations). However, in time, the waters got muddied and Madigan assumed both roles. So when Sexton was confirmed as down, Madigan was the natural replacement – but it didn't quite work out, in attack or defence. Will Schmidt regret changing his planning? The lack of depth at centre also came back to bite – we picked only 3 specialists in our squad – Payne, Henshaw and Cave. After Jared Payne got injured, Earls stepped in and had a pretty good tournament in the group stages, but as the only player to start all games, he looked completely bushed by the time of the Argentina game, and the defensive solidity of Payne was sorely missed. Schmidt must be asking himself 2 things – why was Cave brought at all, and would there have been value in considering McCloskey or Luke Marshall in the summer camps?
And as for the Comical Ali injury updates (O'Mahony was walking around the changing rooms .. Payne has a bruised foot .. Sexton has been training fully), one sympathises with Schmidt – its not his job to fully brief the opposition – but the tone of briefings changed markedly from the open discussions from previous squad announcements and Six Nations. We can understand what they were trying to do (or not to do) but what was that about?
In the aftermath, much of the focus has been on the northern-southern hemisphere divide, and rightly so. The gulf is somewhat cavernous, and at times the European sides appear to be playing a different game. We can't help but cast our minds back to some of the pieces we wrote about the State Of The Game around the time of the Six Nations. Looking back, perhaps we were really writing about the State Of The Northern Hemisphere, and just needed to watch more southern hemisphere football. This world cup has, so far, been the greatest I can recall, vastly superior to 2007 and 2011 in any case. It's largely down to the brilliance of the Southern Hemisphere nations, as well as Japan. The supposed tightening up and reduction of gameplans to kick 'n' bosh so beloved of Irish commentators, who have ascribed it the title 'cup rugby', has thus far failed to materialise. New Zealand and Argentina refused to be dragged into trench warfare; why bother when you can use your superior skill to amass 100 points between you? Is that not cup rugby? And Michael Cheika spoke of his desire to keep playing the Australian way, even if it meant shooting themselves in the foot umpteen times. The two semi-finals are mouth-watering, and, sad as it is, the Northern Hemisphere sides (with the exception of the mighty Welsh) won't be missed
I wonder is the gap between North and South being over estimated? Wales and Scotland were far from outclassed, and Scotland arguably would have won that game but for a missed lineout and a horrible refereeing call. If it was New Zealand v Wales and Scotland v Argentina, would we be having this discussion?
All this talk of quick ball, attacking out wide, is correct. I've been bemoaning the crash ball centre fixation we have up here, and also Irelands reliance on box kicking, and kick chase turnovers to generate forward momentum.
However, the key thing in Rugby is still controlled physical aggression. Win your tackles, drive the man backwards. Contest and win turnover ball at ruck time. Go forward, forward, forward. Clear out your own rucks quickly and aggressively, recycle the ball quickly, get it moving again.
I don't believe any of that is beyond Ireland, and in a lot of games that's exactly what we have done. However, it was Argentina that did all that to us on Sunday. Never mind their brilliant attacking lines, or their ambition in running the ball wide, which was brilliant in fairness. But they could do that because they were smashing us physically, and that remains my biggest disappointment from Sunday.
If Ireland won those battles, set that level of intensity, and imposed themselves on Argentina, then the Irish way of playing would have been the pattern for the game, and I'm convinced we'd have a different result.
Agree with that AZ - I do think the hype junkies have been playing up the divide. Sure the divide has always existed.
In terms of Ireland's perform I managed to bring myself around to watching the game again. As pointed out in Murray Kinsella's analysis the first two Argentinian tries came from basic errors. The first we lost the aerial battle, Toner missed a tackle and Dave Kearney was stand-offish allowing the winger to dog leg him and create the overlap.
No to take anything away from their performance but we gave ourselves a mountain to claim in that opening 20 minutes!
South african fans feel the team/squad they have there is far from their best and are very unhappy with the coach. I think they feel if they had their best players from all clubs then they could win it. Apparently there are no players in the squad from their champions as the coach is a fan of one of the other clubs.
So the consensus is SA could be a lot better though that is coming from a south african.
I'm only a casual rugby fan but do tend to watch the international stuff if I can but from a general sports perspective I tend to agree with those saying the Irish team are getting off very lightly. The bottom line is surely we failed badly and were beaten out the gate by an Argentina team that previously lost the majority of their games to their southern hemisphere opponents. In a sport with small playing pool we lost to the first decent team we met and yet the analysis is on the soft side. Now, I wouldn't condone putting the boot into players or management when they lose (in any sport) but there does seem to be a reluctance on many people's part to acknowledge just how bad Ireland's world cup campaign has been. Even the France result was shown up for what it really was by the New Zealanders.
The gap between the hemispheres is real enough, but the perception of that gap has real world consequences. Craig Joubert's notorious penalty award wasn't an awful decision in itself. I didn't see anything wrong with it at the time and it was only reports the next day that highlighted the mistake. Ball pinging around like that, hands being flung at it from all angles . . . easy to get it wrong. The way he has been hung out to dry by World Rugby was disgraceful. However, if the roles had been reversed and it were Australia desperately defending and he had to make a decision which would likely give the win to Scotland, do you think he would have given it? I doubt it. Much easier to give the tough call to the heavyweight. And that's even before you factor in the likely reaction of a country who still have a chip on their shoulder over Bodyline. He was hardwired to make the decision he did.
If that seems overly conspiratorial, have a look at Richie McCaw's repeated 'lazy efforts', as Liam Toland wryly put it, to get back onside the previous evening. I'd say he has turned being offside into an art form, but that is to give it too much credit. He is repeatedly offside yet the referees seem to think it's acceptable because He Is Richie McCaw and They Are The All Blacks. It'd make me sick - if I cared.
Ritchie McCaw was born offside. As I said elsewhere, when he was taken off I was surprised he didn't go and sit on the French bench, he was on their side so often.
Quote from: deiseach on October 21, 2015, 02:07:18 PM
The gap between the hemispheres is real enough, but the perception of that gap has real world consequences. Craig Joubert's notorious penalty award wasn't an awful decision in itself. I didn't see anything wrong with it at the time and it was only reports the next day that highlighted the mistake. Ball pinging around like that, hands being flung at it from all angles . . . easy to get it wrong. The way he has been hung out to dry by World Rugby was disgraceful. However, if the roles had been reversed and it were Australia desperately defending and he had to make a decision which would likely give the win to Scotland, do you think he would have given it? I doubt it. Much easier to give the tough call to the heavyweight. And that's even before you factor in the likely reaction of a country who still have a chip on their shoulder over Bodyline. He was hardwired to make the decision he did.
If that seems overly conspiratorial, have a look at Richie McCaw's repeated 'lazy efforts', as Liam Toland wryly put it, to get back onside the previous evening. I'd say he has turned being offside into an art form, but that is to give it too much credit. He is repeatedly offside yet the referees seem to think it's acceptable because He Is Richie McCaw and They Are The All Blacks. It'd make me sick - if I cared.
did he get as much of a going over after the 2011 WC final? I canny mind. Watched a summary of his decisions that day on YouTube the other night. How he was even in a position to referee @ this WC is beyond me. Oh, and how Richie McCaw gets away with it, over and over and over again, is also beyond me
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 21, 2015, 02:10:25 PM
Ritchie McCaw was born offside.
;D
He produced the right result in 2011, just as Derek 'Gold Watch' Bevan did in 1995.
50% off northern hemisphere jerseys !
http://www.rwcshop.com/
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 21, 2015, 10:49:09 AM
I wonder is the gap between North and South being over estimated? Wales and Scotland were far from outclassed, and Scotland arguably would have won that game but for a missed lineout and a horrible refereeing call. If it was New Zealand v Wales and Scotland v Argentina, would we be having this discussion?
All this talk of quick ball, attacking out wide, is correct. I've been bemoaning the crash ball centre fixation we have up here, and also Irelands reliance on box kicking, and kick chase turnovers to generate forward momentum.
However, the key thing in Rugby is still controlled physical aggression. Win your tackles, drive the man backwards. Contest and win turnover ball at ruck time. Go forward, forward, forward. Clear out your own rucks quickly and aggressively, recycle the ball quickly, get it moving again.
I don't believe any of that is beyond Ireland, and in a lot of games that's exactly what we have done. However, it was Argentina that did all that to us on Sunday. Never mind their brilliant attacking lines, or their ambition in running the ball wide, which was brilliant in fairness. But they could do that because they were smashing us physically, and that remains my biggest disappointment from Sunday.
If Ireland won those battles, set that level of intensity, and imposed themselves on Argentina, then the Irish way of playing would have been the pattern for the game, and I'm convinced we'd have a different result.
I wonder did the plethora of injuries against France, and the players having their tournaments ended abruptly, affect our intensity at the start of the match? Were lads, at least subconsciously, concerned about getting an injury that would end their tournament. By the time they realised that their lack of intensity would end their tournament, it was too late.
Is now the time for Madigan to leave Leinster in order to get regular game time. Perhaps a 2 year contract with Munster?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 22, 2015, 10:27:22 AM
Is now the time for Madigan to leave Leinster in order to get regular game time. Perhaps a 2 year contract with Munster?
No chance, unless they move Krystle to Limerick ;D
Yes, the fuss about the hemispheres right now is excessive, given that only England around 2003 managed to ever lord it over the SH.
In 2 years times another Lions tour comes round and once again we'll be expected to suspend disbelief as the pick of four nations pooled together fails to beat one nation.
A 6 week junket makes journalists lose their critical faculties and instead write puff about 'what it takes to be a lion'.
Darcy's points about skills are probably valid, though Ireland have a come on a long way in the last 20 years, relative to other rugby nations. I remember when an Irish backline couldn't 3 consecutive passes together to get the ball to Simon Geoghegan on the wing, when putting the ball in his hand almost guaranteed a try. Under no pressure, someone would drop the ball, or knock it on, or pass it a yard over the next man's head.
Taking English soccer as a yardstick, I can remember as far back as 1993 when they failed to qualify for USA '94. The post mortems back then pointed to poor skills coaching - Winning over learning, low risk and knock it long. Every post mortem since then has raised roughly the same points. If England had succeeded in making the changes back then, they'd already have a generation of better coached lining out for them. I'm guessing that even if you recognise there is a problem and diagnose what it is, it isn't straightforard to fix.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 22, 2015, 11:03:35 AM
Yes, the fuss about the hemispheres right now is excessive, given that only England around 2003 managed to ever lord it over the SH.
In 2 years times another Lions tour comes round and once again we'll be expected to suspend disbelief as the pick of four nations pooled together fails to beat one nation.
A 6 week junket makes journalists lose their critical faculties and instead write puff about 'what it takes to be a lion'.
Darcy's points about skills are probably valid, though Ireland have a come on a long way in the last 20 years, relative to other rugby nations. I remember when an Irish backline couldn't 3 consecutive passes together to get the ball to Simon Geoghegan on the wing, when putting the ball in his hand almost guaranteed a try. Under no pressure, someone would drop the ball, or knock it on, or pass it a yard over the next man's head.
Taking English soccer as a yardstick, I can remember as far back as 1993 when they failed to qualify for USA '94. The post mortems back then pointed to poor skills coaching - Winning over learning, low risk and knock it long. Every post mortem since then has raised roughly the same points. If England had succeeded in making the changes back then, they'd already have a generation of better coached lining out for them. I'm guessing that even if you recognise there is a problem and diagnose what it is, it isn't straightforard to fix.
His comments about the Feile struck a chord with me. It is an issue in many sports. How many underage Managers / coaches are more concerned with getting wins at the various age groups than in developing players.
There is the flip side argument that winning tends to encourage players to stick with the game.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 22, 2015, 11:18:00 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 22, 2015, 11:03:35 AM
Yes, the fuss about the hemispheres right now is excessive, given that only England around 2003 managed to ever lord it over the SH.
In 2 years times another Lions tour comes round and once again we'll be expected to suspend disbelief as the pick of four nations pooled together fails to beat one nation.
A 6 week junket makes journalists lose their critical faculties and instead write puff about 'what it takes to be a lion'.
Darcy's points about skills are probably valid, though Ireland have a come on a long way in the last 20 years, relative to other rugby nations. I remember when an Irish backline couldn't 3 consecutive passes together to get the ball to Simon Geoghegan on the wing, when putting the ball in his hand almost guaranteed a try. Under no pressure, someone would drop the ball, or knock it on, or pass it a yard over the next man's head.
Taking English soccer as a yardstick, I can remember as far back as 1993 when they failed to qualify for USA '94. The post mortems back then pointed to poor skills coaching - Winning over learning, low risk and knock it long. Every post mortem since then has raised roughly the same points. If England had succeeded in making the changes back then, they'd already have a generation of better coached lining out for them. I'm guessing that even if you recognise there is a problem and diagnose what it is, it isn't straightforard to fix.
His comments about the Feile struck a chord with me. It is an issue in many sports. How many underage Managers / coaches are more concerned with getting wins at the various age groups than in developing players.
There is the flip side argument that winning tends to encourage players to stick with the game.
Also who is Sport for the 100 or so who make it to the top or the 100,000s that never play past 14, to spoil their games because Ireland choked again at some WC or Euro championship would be ridiculous even most of the Guy in provincial acamemies will never make it close to the top
Quote from: rosnarun on October 22, 2015, 12:13:19 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 22, 2015, 11:18:00 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on October 22, 2015, 11:03:35 AM
Yes, the fuss about the hemispheres right now is excessive, given that only England around 2003 managed to ever lord it over the SH.
In 2 years times another Lions tour comes round and once again we'll be expected to suspend disbelief as the pick of four nations pooled together fails to beat one nation.
A 6 week junket makes journalists lose their critical faculties and instead write puff about 'what it takes to be a lion'.
Darcy's points about skills are probably valid, though Ireland have a come on a long way in the last 20 years, relative to other rugby nations. I remember when an Irish backline couldn't 3 consecutive passes together to get the ball to Simon Geoghegan on the wing, when putting the ball in his hand almost guaranteed a try. Under no pressure, someone would drop the ball, or knock it on, or pass it a yard over the next man's head.
Taking English soccer as a yardstick, I can remember as far back as 1993 when they failed to qualify for USA '94. The post mortems back then pointed to poor skills coaching - Winning over learning, low risk and knock it long. Every post mortem since then has raised roughly the same points. If England had succeeded in making the changes back then, they'd already have a generation of better coached lining out for them. I'm guessing that even if you recognise there is a problem and diagnose what it is, it isn't straightforard to fix.
His comments about the Feile struck a chord with me. It is an issue in many sports. How many underage Managers / coaches are more concerned with getting wins at the various age groups than in developing players.
There is the flip side argument that winning tends to encourage players to stick with the game.
Also who is Sport for the 100 or so who make it to the top or the 100,000s that never play past 14, to spoil their games because Ireland choked again at some WC or Euro championship would be ridiculous even most of the Guy in provincial acamemies will never make it close to the top
I think D'Arcys point was not just about coaching and developing the elite, acadamy style, to develop international players but to develop the skills first. Like the GAA a lot of underage coaching is focussed on winning first (tactics, S&C) rather than on developing the skills (spatial awareness, handling) to develop a generation of skilled players who can then be developed.
Leo, when you say 'a lot' what do you mean? I'm involved quite a bit in development squads, and we coach the skills, and I'm pretty sure others are doing so too. We have a session tonight, and the skills focussed on tonight will be kicking, catching, and decision making/spatial awareness passing. Last weeks it was the pickup, kicking, and overlaps/decision making. the week before was kicking and support play .
In addition to this, as part of their development in tactical/gameplay areas, we also play games where we look for them to support the man in possession, not to balloon the ball aimlessly, and to try and deliver quick ball into forwards.
I don't think trying to encourage them to play as a team, and with a couple of different approaches, is mutually exclusive to coaching skills. In fact I think they complement each other.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 22, 2015, 12:41:26 PM
Leo, when you say 'a lot' what do you mean? I'm involved quite a bit in development squads, and we coach the skills, and I'm pretty sure others are doing so too. We have a session tonight, and the skills focussed on tonight will be kicking, catching, and decision making/spatial awareness passing. Last weeks it was the pickup, kicking, and overlaps/decision making. the week before was kicking and support play .
In addition to this, as part of their development in tactical/gameplay areas, we also play games where we look for them to support the man in possession, not to balloon the ball aimlessly, and to try and deliver quick ball into forwards.
I don't think trying to encourage them to play as a team, and with a couple of different approaches, is mutually exclusive to coaching skills. In fact I think they complement each other.
Maybe remove "a lot" and add "I am aware of". I am thinking mainly of clubs and schools rather than development academies.
Not every club has an excess of quality coaches and an integrated coaching charter focused on developing players with protocols for how multiple demands are handled.
Clubs can struggle to get sufficient coaches and very often there is a short term vision in that coaching. There are many examples of players being pulled in multiple directions by multiple managers because theirs is the most important team and their match is the most important match.
I agree with you on that score. There are 'some' (that's the word I'll use) lads that will love being able to have a pint in the pub and slap each other on the back after winning an U14 championship, and put that ahead of actually coaching the players (all the players, not just the strong ones) in the skills of the game.
These are the lads that will consider it a job well done if star man Johnny, a big lad for his age, scores 3-6 in a county final, and never passes to anyone. Meanwhile the team they beat handily in the group stages, who are focussing on developing the technical and game awareness skills of all their players will reap the rewards at a later stage when Johnny has been passed out in the size stakes, and the other teammates are completely lost.
Been looking at ireland play for 30 years and the one consistent is we cannot play or do not have the players to play the game at the pace of nz or aus and I'm not just talking about the backs take Reid from nz and heaslip 2 good players but the one great divide is pace . As a country we probably don't produce really fast players in any code played internationally . So while our forwards are killing themselves to get 3 yards with pure effort and power the kiwi forward is running like a back and flipping a pass with the ball held backwards in one hand. I think this is why we play so tight a game and don't take many risks just playing to what suits our talent and skill levels .
When zebo is not even in match day squad and he is supposed to be our fastest and most explosive player it shows what is valued most ,no mistakes stick to game plan must not offload .
I remarked on the pace of the New Zealand forwards alright. But the question is why is that? Genetically, most of their forwards are Caucasian, European stock. It's not like the genetic argument about sprinters. It's obviously the emphasis they are placing on it. They are not fixated on the set piece, they place a premium on pace, and power. We in Europe seem to value forwards who are big and powerful, but not necessarily fast. Marcas Horan was probably born in the wrong country :)
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2015, 03:13:24 PM
Been looking at ireland play for 30 years and the one consistent is we cannot play or do not have the players to play the game at the pace of nz or aus and I'm not just talking about the backs take Reid from nz and heaslip 2 good players but the one great divide is pace . As a country we probably don't produce really fast players in any code played internationally . So while our forwards are killing themselves to get 3 yards with pure effort and power the kiwi forward is running like a back and flipping a pass with the ball held backwards in one hand. I think this is why we play so tight a game and don't take many risks just playing to what suits our talent and skill levels .
When zebo is not even in match day squad and he is supposed to be our fastest and most explosive player it shows what is valued most ,no mistakes stick to game plan must not offload .
A lot of sense made here but our fastest and most explosive player is Craig Gilroy. He is automatically ruled out because he's not a good enough footballer. Same with Zebo regarding his defence. I think in this country we have a tendency to think of a players negative aspects before considering their positive contributions. The New Zealand wingers can't kick the ball 70 metres down the tram lines but they can finish off scores which wingers are supposed to do.
Plenty to mull over but I think we have to go with more explosive players if we are to succeed.
Problem is the six nations is Irelands bread and butter and we have been doing very well I it for last ten years plus so there is no incentive to change ,hopefully one of these World Cup years we hit the required standard and at least get to a semi final
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2015, 03:13:24 PM
Been looking at ireland play for 30 years and the one consistent is we cannot play or do not have the players to play the game at the pace of nz or aus and I'm not just talking about the backs take Reid from nz and heaslip 2 good players but the one great divide is pace . As a country we probably don't produce really fast players in any code played internationally . So while our forwards are killing themselves to get 3 yards with pure effort and power the kiwi forward is running like a back and flipping a pass with the ball held backwards in one hand. I think this is why we play so tight a game and don't take many risks just playing to what suits our talent and skill levels .
When zebo is not even in match day squad and he is supposed to be our fastest and most explosive player it shows what is valued most ,no mistakes stick to game plan must not offload .
Expect a new recruitment policy on GAA players to start. Best ball players in Ireland play the gah!!
Quote from: rrhf on October 22, 2015, 05:00:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2015, 03:13:24 PM
Been looking at ireland play for 30 years and the one consistent is we cannot play or do not have the players to play the game at the pace of nz or aus and I'm not just talking about the backs take Reid from nz and heaslip 2 good players but the one great divide is pace . As a country we probably don't produce really fast players in any code played internationally . So while our forwards are killing themselves to get 3 yards with pure effort and power the kiwi forward is running like a back and flipping a pass with the ball held backwards in one hand. I think this is why we play so tight a game and don't take many risks just playing to what suits our talent and skill levels .
When zebo is not even in match day squad and he is supposed to be our fastest and most explosive player it shows what is valued most ,no mistakes stick to game plan must not offload .
Expect a new recruitment policy on GAA players to start. Best ball players in Ireland play the gah!!
And can offload with the best of them according to Martin carney
Mike McGurn speaks extensively about GAA players who's got too bulky whilst losing explosive speed and agility. He should maybe head back to the rugby and preach the same message there.
Rugby is a minority sport on this island .. To be honest a q/f should be the limit of it if all other countries are reaching their potential .
Soccer sits atop the pile with 340,070 participants across the country in 2,500 clubs. The GAA finds itself in second place with 294, 577 registered players across 2,359 clubs. Rugby, though growing, is a distant third with 158,685 registered players and 236 clubs.
Not sure if these stats are correct as it would mean the Rugby clubs have 672 members on average. Gaelic club would have 124 on average. With Soccer clubs having an average membership per club of 136?
NZ not getting all their own way today.
Blacks starting to turn the screw a wee bit but giving away too many pens
Terrible game, South Africa catch and kick hard to watch, very little style to them, All-Blacks give away alot of penalties though ref seems to let the bok ones go, strange. Still expect All-Blacks to score a try as they had 65% in the South Africa half. Kaino hive away the most stupid penalty at the end of the half there.
Agree, poor enough game
South Africa will win this.
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 24, 2015, 05:04:31 PM
South Africa will win this.
Not if they continue to give away daft penalties. I hope they do though. I can't seem to warm to this All Black team
Terrible weather hasnt helped this game
I don't think SA could have any complaints, two tries to nil in those conditions means NZ deserved a narrow win
Nobody complain about Ireland inability to play an expansive game, South Africa have better backs than Ireland yet over 80 mins didn't go wide at all, could played to Monday and still wouldn't have scored a try, the fact they kept this game to 2pts is a miracle in itsself. Reminds me of the negative approach Derry took playing Dublin in the league earlier in the year, 0-06 to 0-04 with less than 5 mins to go before 2 late Dublin scores. Goes to show negativity can nearly see out a game, down the the luck of a wet ball or refs whistle, Wonder did Jim McGuinness gather his smothering approach from Rugby not soccer. 2 of the best attacking wingers in world rugby for either teams and barely 3 passes between them, chronic stuff.
Think new Zealand had 70% possession most of it in the South Africa half
SA kicking was very poor and meant that they never had territory .
Have to say that TV3 commentator is dire. So many errors. Matlock apparently knocked on at the end to finish the game. Great lawyer, shit rugby player.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 24, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Have to say that TV3 commentator is dire. So many errors. Matlock apparently knocked on at the end to finish the game. Great lawyer, shit rugby player.
;D
It must be the TV angles, but both of New Zealands tries looked to have a forward pass in the lead up to them. Were they both given without TMO?
I must say I have little or no interest in the competition since the northern hemisphere sides got knocked out.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 24, 2015, 05:31:12 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 24, 2015, 05:04:31 PM
South Africa will win this.
Not if they continue to give away daft penalties. I hope they do though. I can't seem to warm to this All Black team
They are a class team, the most successful team in any sport in the world with an 85 % win record. They are also remarkably humble with all their players taking their turn to sweep and clean their changing room after training and matches. Their thought process is to leave everything in better shape than they got it and that includes the changing room and also the All Black jersey which they see themselves as holding for a period of time before passing it on. I have total admiration for them and I love the exhilerating way they play the game.
They are a brilliant team alright, but they have't many other distractions in New Zealand. Rugby is their Religion.
The drop goal from Carter in those conditions, different class.
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 24, 2015, 08:14:05 PM
It must be the TV angles, but both of New Zealands tries looked to have a forward pass in the lead up to them. Were they both given without TMO?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg
Quote from: dferg on October 24, 2015, 08:34:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 24, 2015, 08:14:05 PM
It must be the TV angles, but both of New Zealands tries looked to have a forward pass in the lead up to them. Were they both given without TMO?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg
very interesting that video.
Quote from: lenny on October 24, 2015, 08:26:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 24, 2015, 05:31:12 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 24, 2015, 05:04:31 PM
South Africa will win this.
Not if they continue to give away daft penalties. I hope they do though. I can't seem to warm to this All Black team
They are a class team, the most successful team in any sport in the world with an 85 % win record. They are also remarkably humble with all their players taking their turn to sweep and clean their changing room after training and matches. Their thought process is to leave everything in better shape than they got it and that includes the changing room and also the All Black jersey which they see themselves as holding for a period of time before passing it on. I have total admiration for them and I love the exhilerating way they play the game.
They are an incredible team. Probably the fact they seem to get away with alot, which in fairness isn't their fault.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 24, 2015, 09:59:09 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 24, 2015, 08:26:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 24, 2015, 05:31:12 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 24, 2015, 05:04:31 PM
South Africa will win this.
Not if they continue to give away daft penalties. I hope they do though. I can't seem to warm to this All Black team
They are a class team, the most successful team in any sport in the world with an 85 % win record. They are also remarkably humble with all their players taking their turn to sweep and clean their changing room after training and matches. Their thought process is to leave everything in better shape than they got it and that includes the changing room and also the All Black jersey which they see themselves as holding for a period of time before passing it on. I have total admiration for them and I love the exhilerating way they play the game.
They are an incredible team. Probably the fact they seem to get away with alot, which in fairness isn't their fault.
They're just another team. One that has continually shat the bed at World Cups, and looked like doing it today for large periods of the game, too. Nonsense to think there isn't remarkable spirit and unity in other nations too. Part of the reason we've never beaten them is we're too quick to buy into the mythology of the 'All Blacks'.
Just another team lol, if you know anything about rugby over the past 25yrs it seems this could be the best team in the period i been watching rugby, had serious teams 1997 and 2005 better than Australia world cup teams of 1991 and 1999 and South Africa 2007 , they never were going to lose that game foreby the close scoreline. South Africa never remotely neared the touchline. The only time i thought they folded was 1999 when they had the game won and lost it, against France in 2007 the game could went either way!
Met a few of the All Blacks in their hotel last weekend. Very humble players - no airs or graces. Happy to speak to everyone and have pics taken. Gentlemen.
Pity Argentina didn't make them 2 stupid mistakes against us, we been playing the day!!
Sanchez is a beautiful striker of a rugby ball.
14-6 to Aus at 26 mins.
Arg being made to pay for basic mistakes
The Arg no 9 is taking too long at the breakdown
If I was a betting man I'd be backing Argentina to take this game. Expect Australia complacency and Argentina passion in 2nd half.
Is there any limits on the number of replacements?
Brilliant by Mitchell but do they not call forward passes in rugby anymore??
Wayne Barnes is a shit ref, screwing Argentina.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on October 25, 2015, 05:47:33 PM
Wayne Barnes is a shit ref, screwing Argentina.
I think Aus have deserved this, four tries to nil, but yeah Barnes has been "patchy". Tuculet at 15 has been one of the players of the tournament
Argentina are a no 10 with kicking ability short of really challenging at the top table.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 25, 2015, 05:53:15 PM
Argentina are a no 10 with kicking ability short of really challenging at the top table.
You mean like Nicolas Sanchez top point scorer at the WC??
No surprise to see Australia v New Zealand final most would have predicted that before the world cup.
Argentina robbed. Australia off side for all of second half.
you cant give a team a 14Pt's lead then expect to win the game without scoring a try, forwards pass didn't make a difference to how the game turned out but earlier in the tournament they were going back 2/3 phases before the try now, they not even going to TMO and Barnes is supposed to be a top class ref oops¬!!
Argentina's ball was noticeably slower this week than last. Their back row bossed us but they were given a lesson in that department today. Would have loved them to win but whereas they were clinical last week they botched their chances this week and Australia took just about every chance came their way.
Really looking forward to seeing the two back rows compete next week. Should be absolutely ferocious and unless the ref ruins things then I'd say whoever wins this battle is likely to come out on top. Although think is Owens who is generally very good so may the best team win.
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 25, 2015, 05:56:24 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 25, 2015, 05:53:15 PM
Argentina are a no 10 with kicking ability short of really challenging at the top table.
You mean like Nicolas Sanchez top point scorer at the WC??
From the tee, great. But not territory / game management and putting the opposition on the back foot. Maybe you think differently. For me, Argentina have the pack and the backs, but this is the one area that seems to be missing. They didn't change tact at all today, run, run, run, spill or get turned over... Repeat.
The hits going in from both sides today were ferocious. Something has to give.....
Reading there this morning about a young 2nd row Darren O'Shea. Left the Munster Academy last year to join Worcester. Seems to be getting more game time. 6'9 and 19st so he's a big unit. In light of our shortage of 2nd rows its great to see the lad had the ambition to play 1st team rugby.
AZ can you shed any light on him? Promising future ahead?
Looks like the Burgess gamble may have backfired completely now. He's been given time off from Bath to make a decision on a return to Rugby Leage. He could be heading back to South Sydney.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSeJduAUkAAnDC7.jpg)
Quote from: Declan on October 29, 2015, 09:29:35 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSeJduAUkAAnDC7.jpg)
That is the guiltiest looking seagull I have ever seen.
Aussie ramping it up
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSjvLNxWIAA6FIm.jpg)
Brian Moores article on McCaw was farirly good and puts to bed much of the "McCaw was born offside" fallacy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/newzealand/11961750/Rugby-World-Cup-final-2015-All-Blacks-captain-Richie-McCaw-might-test-referees-but-he-is-still-a-great.html
This is the law by which McCaw lives and the one that a lot of rugby fans do not appear to know, 15.4.(c): "The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then may play the ball from any direction." So many professional players are now taught to bring an opponent down, slide round to their own side of the tackle before releasing the man with the ball and then getting to their feet to contest. What McCaw does is simply get to his feet after the tackle and contest the ball from the 'wrong' side.
Moore sets up a straw man, then airily refers to the part of McCaw's game that pisses people off:
QuoteA technique he developed fairly quickly – and this is the other side of McCaw – is technically illegal but incredibly difficult to see. Sometimes he will not actually compete for the ball but will simply brace himself to take the hits from opposing players trying to clear out, leaving his colleagues to win it. To the letter of the law this is obstruction because if he does not play the ball he should immediately retire to his own side of the breakdown.
You have to love his use of 'technically illegal'. That means it's illegal, Brian. A text book example of someone being blinded by the aura of the 'All Blacks, which no doubt extends to referees. It really is the sporting of being a croppy.
South Africa lop sided nature of the game tonight and the lucky escape to Scotland would make me think Australia are not as good as many people think outside of a very good back row. New Zealand more than likely to take Australia on up front and try to wear the Aussies down but i expect just a few tries with the games decided on penalties.
Aussies way too cocky for their own good, couldn't`t bare them winning.
I didn't want Lomu record broke tonight, Mitchell might tomorrow, but Lomu only played in 2 world cups up to the age of 24 and if healthy would been there 2003 and 2007 and likely would have scored 10 more tries so players getting the same no of tries or just eclipsing him over more world cups doesn't compare in my opinion
Can't muster much excitement for the Tri Nations final.
Looks like the All-Blacks have turned up in spades today, Australia are not playing too bad and are very good at the turn over, they are struggling at the scrum and very severely at the lineout, they are lucky Zealand didn't score another try, Big worry for the Aussies they only been down in the New Zealand half 2 times in 40 mins
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 31, 2015, 04:52:37 PM
Looks like the All-Blacks have turned up in spades today, Australia are not playing too bad and are very good at the turn over, they are struggling at the scrum and very severely at the lineout, they are lucky Zealand didn't score another try, Big worry for the Aussies they only been down in the New Zealand half 2 times in 40 mins
A boring no contest tbh . Ffs it is on at 4 pm today because of the X factor.
NZ too good and too fresh .
Quote from: ashman on October 31, 2015, 04:57:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 31, 2015, 04:52:37 PM
Looks like the All-Blacks have turned up in spades today, Australia are not playing too bad and are very good at the turn over, they are struggling at the scrum and very severely at the lineout, they are lucky Zealand didn't score another try, Big worry for the Aussies they only been down in the New Zealand half 2 times in 40 mins
A boring no contest tbh . Ffs it is on at 4 pm today because of the X factor.
NZ too good and too fresh .
O rly?
there must be the most costly yellow card in a world cup, team domainting, you get a yellow and the other teams gets 2 tries.
Phenomenal stuff from Carter! Had he played 4 years ago they would have won with ease!
Fair play NZ well deserved Aussie tried hard but just not at that level.
best team of this or any generation, yellow card brought Australia back into it but New Zealand picked up the a gear and pushed on to greatness. Carter unbelievable with a serious game for McCaw too
Dan Carter, what talent. Aussies tried, always felt that when NZ got back to 15 they'd pull away again. Great team to watch. Well done them.
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
Quote from: INDIANA on October 31, 2015, 06:06:59 PM
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
On their day, once every so often with no injuries, cap weather and a dose of good luck they could beat Australia whose line out was terrible given Ireland play a total kivking/territory based game.
On the other hand they could play that NZ team a thousand times and wouldn't beat them. I mean, the luxury of being able to take off Conrad Smith at half time only to replace him with SB Williams is just staggering.
Glad to see Carter go out on a high. Never for a second though that drop goal was on, pure class.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 31, 2015, 06:06:59 PM
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
OR the delusion that Argentina are anywhere near that level.
Everyone on the team can play the game at an unbelievable pace ,the hooker got the ball on the wing at one stage and was flying .they must train at that speed and make sure no balls hit the ground , great to watch a team like that in full flow and great players playing great on the biggest stage
see Sonny Bill Williams gave some young lad his world cup medal after the game., Class act!!
poor game overall and its hard to believe Aussies were within a score with 5 to go without having a scrum or lineout and only about 25% possession. NZ by far and away the best team but hard to get excited about it. A bit like watching Kilkenny hammer everyone
Dan Carter kicks what would be a fairly handy point in football and people seem to be suggesting he's a Trevor Giles or something?
why could Trevor Giles drop kick it over the bar, how many of them have you seen in the Gaelic? a oval ball doesn't travel in a straight line the way a round ball would either! Fancy Maurice Fitz could do it though!
To be fair, Giles often scored after similar build up play.
At least carter wouldn't cut up his jersey.
Thank god that yawn fest is over! If ever there was a competition (and game) organised to keep the strong stronger, this is the one. People always go on about how organised Rugby is but there was so much wrong with this Tournament. Japan having to play their second game 5 days after a tough first game encounter against a team coming in fresh. How Wales, England and Australia Ended up the same group when you look at other groups. The forward pass does not seem to apply to southern hemisphere countries. Countless tries had forward passes. The off side rule only applies when it's not Richie McCaw. On top of all this we (Ireland) underachieved again. Any uproar? Nah! The boys done us proud beating a shipwrecked France and sure that'll do. I suppose the only consolation in the final this time round was that the Referee did not have to help the New Zealand win the final.
Most enjoyable RWC ever, watched every game bar 2/3, made some lovely £££ on Handicap betting.
Roll on Japan, it'll be interesting to see again the state of Tier 2 nations by then.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 31, 2015, 08:07:52 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 31, 2015, 06:06:59 PM
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
OR the delusion that Argentina are anywhere near that level.
Closer then we are- maybe that's not saying much. Difference is they are only getting better now with a team in the Super 15 next year for the first time. Being beaten by 20 points by a team way off that level tells us all the absolute bullshit spun about rugby in Ireland
Every chance Japan will pass Ireland out too in the coming years.
Anyway we have the Coca Cola Cup (6 nations) to look forward to in the Spring
Quote from: INDIANA on November 01, 2015, 12:25:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 31, 2015, 08:07:52 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 31, 2015, 06:06:59 PM
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
OR the delusion that Argentina are anywhere near that level.
Closer then we are- maybe that's not saying much. Difference is they are only getting better now with a team in the Super 15 next year for the first time. Being beaten by 20 points by a team way off that level tells us all the absolute bullshit spun about rugby in Ireland
Every chance Japan will pass Ireland out too in the coming years.
Anyway we have the Coca Cola Cup (6 nations) to look forward to in the Spring
Japan is it Indy. Troll so hard.
Thought Mr Owens was very hard on the Aussies, forward pass for a try (Barnes should have called it as well) and a blatant knock on which resulted in a penalty a few phases later all in the first half.
Best team still won though.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 31, 2015, 06:06:59 PM
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
Not meaning to be under dramatic, but Ireland beat Australia in the last world cup.
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 01, 2015, 09:54:22 AM
Thank god that yawn fest is over! If ever there was a competition (and game) organised to keep the strong stronger, this is the one. People always go on about how organised Rugby is but there was so much wrong with this Tournament. Japan having to play their second game 5 days after a tough first game encounter against a team coming in fresh. How Wales, England and Australia Ended up the same group when you look at other groups. The forward pass does not seem to apply to southern hemisphere countries. Countless tries had forward passes. The off side rule only applies when it's not Richie McCaw. On top of all this we (Ireland) underachieved again. Any uproar? Nah! The boys done us proud beating a shipwrecked France and sure that'll do. I suppose the only consolation in the final this time round was that the Referee did not have to help the New Zealand win the final.
if for nothing else, it bumped the feckin x-factor off its Saturday night slot !
I really enjoyed it apart from our usual early exit. The All Black were worthy winners, as someone mentioned above, the speed at which they operate is incredible.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 01, 2015, 12:25:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 31, 2015, 08:07:52 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 31, 2015, 06:06:59 PM
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
OR the delusion that Argentina are anywhere near that level.
Closer then we are- maybe that's not saying much. Difference is they are only getting better now with a team in the Super 15 next year for the first time. Being beaten by 20 points by a team way off that level tells us all the absolute bullshit spun about rugby in Ireland
Every chance Japan will pass Ireland out too in the coming years.
Anyway we have the Coca Cola Cup (6 nations) to look forward to in the Spring
lads whatever about the difference between southern hemisphere and northern hemisphere, thats another story, but the "bullshit spun" about rugby in Ireland wasnt just generated in Ireland! we were back to back 6 nations champions and ranked 2nd in the world coming into that world cup. we got savaged by injuries in a way that would have affected any team. a lot of bullshit being spun on this thread about how bad Ireland are IMO.
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 02, 2015, 10:14:36 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 01, 2015, 12:25:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 31, 2015, 08:07:52 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 31, 2015, 06:06:59 PM
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
OR the delusion that Argentina are anywhere near that level.
Closer then we are- maybe that's not saying much. Difference is they are only getting better now with a team in the Super 15 next year for the first time. Being beaten by 20 points by a team way off that level tells us all the absolute bullshit spun about rugby in Ireland
Every chance Japan will pass Ireland out too in the coming years.
Anyway we have the Coca Cola Cup (6 nations) to look forward to in the Spring
lads whatever about the difference between southern hemisphere and northern hemisphere, thats another story, but the "bullshit spun" about rugby in Ireland wasnt just generated in Ireland! we were back to back 6 nations champions and ranked 2nd in the world coming into that world cup. we got savaged by injuries in a way that would have affected any team. a lot of bullshit being spun on this thread about how bad Ireland are IMO.
Ireland have NEVER EVER won a knockout game in the WC since it began. In a 8/9 team tournament we have never gotten past the last eight.
Once again the happy clappy dribble is beginning. No doubt we will beat some SH team in a friendly in November in a year or two and the hype will begin again.
The vast amount of GAA senior club teams imo get more critical attention than the Irish rugby team.
Quote from: Canalman on November 02, 2015, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 02, 2015, 10:14:36 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 01, 2015, 12:25:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 31, 2015, 08:07:52 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 31, 2015, 06:06:59 PM
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
OR the delusion that Argentina are anywhere near that level.
Closer then we are- maybe that's not saying much. Difference is they are only getting better now with a team in the Super 15 next year for the first time. Being beaten by 20 points by a team way off that level tells us all the absolute bullshit spun about rugby in Ireland
Every chance Japan will pass Ireland out too in the coming years.
Anyway we have the Coca Cola Cup (6 nations) to look forward to in the Spring
lads whatever about the difference between southern hemisphere and northern hemisphere, thats another story, but the "bullshit spun" about rugby in Ireland wasnt just generated in Ireland! we were back to back 6 nations champions and ranked 2nd in the world coming into that world cup. we got savaged by injuries in a way that would have affected any team. a lot of bullshit being spun on this thread about how bad Ireland are IMO.
Ireland have NEVER EVER won a knockout game in the WC since it began. In a 8/9 team tournament we have never gotten past the last eight.
Once again the happy clappy dribble is beginning. No doubt we will beat some SH team in a friendly in November in a year or two and the hype will begin again.
The vast amount of GAA senior club teams imo get more critical attention than the Irish rugby team.
What are you people on about? The newspapers have been riddled with criticism of Schmidt's tactics, lack of quality in the 6 Nations and Ireland's failure to deliver a team with the skills required to beat a Southern Hemisphere team.
The only difference is it's actually constructive criticism and the manager isn't the one shouldering the blame!! Compare that to Gaelic where Mayo have been a top team for the last 5 years and the smallest margins mean they haven't reached the summit and people reckon they may as well give up!!
Ireland have a lot of work to do but we have a great coach (who by hook or by crook we need to keep in place for the next 4 years) and hopefully some decent young players coming through over the next few years which should allow us to build something better for 2019.
Yes we've lost O'Connell, Ross and Best but the rest will still be around and I think if we can get somebody better than Devin Toner in beside Henderson we will still be a force!
Quote from: Canalman on November 02, 2015, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 02, 2015, 10:14:36 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 01, 2015, 12:25:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 31, 2015, 08:07:52 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 31, 2015, 06:06:59 PM
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
OR the delusion that Argentina are anywhere near that level.
Closer then we are- maybe that's not saying much. Difference is they are only getting better now with a team in the Super 15 next year for the first time. Being beaten by 20 points by a team way off that level tells us all the absolute bullshit spun about rugby in Ireland
Every chance Japan will pass Ireland out too in the coming years.
Anyway we have the Coca Cola Cup (6 nations) to look forward to in the Spring
lads whatever about the difference between southern hemisphere and northern hemisphere, thats another story, but the "bullshit spun" about rugby in Ireland wasnt just generated in Ireland! we were back to back 6 nations champions and ranked 2nd in the world coming into that world cup. we got savaged by injuries in a way that would have affected any team. a lot of bullshit being spun on this thread about how bad Ireland are IMO.
Ireland have NEVER EVER won a knockout game in the WC since it began. In a 8/9 team tournament we have never gotten past the last eight.
Once again the happy clappy dribble is beginning. No doubt we will beat some SH team in a friendly in November in a year or two and the hype will begin again.
The vast amount of GAA senior club teams imo get more critical attention than the Irish rugby team.
There's no such thing as friendlies in rugby.
Quote from: Syferus on November 02, 2015, 03:30:01 PM
Quote from: Canalman on November 02, 2015, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 02, 2015, 10:14:36 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 01, 2015, 12:25:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 31, 2015, 08:07:52 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 31, 2015, 06:06:59 PM
when you watch that game you realise the absolute delusion that Ireland would be capable of beating either team
OR the delusion that Argentina are anywhere near that level.
Closer then we are- maybe that's not saying much. Difference is they are only getting better now with a team in the Super 15 next year for the first time. Being beaten by 20 points by a team way off that level tells us all the absolute bullshit spun about rugby in Ireland
Every chance Japan will pass Ireland out too in the coming years.
Anyway we have the Coca Cola Cup (6 nations) to look forward to in the Spring
lads whatever about the difference between southern hemisphere and northern hemisphere, thats another story, but the "bullshit spun" about rugby in Ireland wasnt just generated in Ireland! we were back to back 6 nations champions and ranked 2nd in the world coming into that world cup. we got savaged by injuries in a way that would have affected any team. a lot of bullshit being spun on this thread about how bad Ireland are IMO.
Ireland have NEVER EVER won a knockout game in the WC since it began. In a 8/9 team tournament we have never gotten past the last eight.
Once again the happy clappy dribble is beginning. No doubt we will beat some SH team in a friendly in November in a year or two and the hype will begin again.
The vast amount of GAA senior club teams imo get more critical attention than the Irish rugby team.
There's no such thing as friendlies in rugby.
There is when we go there in June. No one seems to give a shit if the All Blacks give us a thumping in Wellington, but we cream ourselves if we get close to them in November!!!
So Burgess is gone. Heading back to South Sydney.
Definitely doesn't reflect well on Lancaster or the RFU.
Quote from: Estimator on November 05, 2015, 09:29:17 PM
So Burgess is gone. Heading back to South Sydney.
Definitely doesn't reflect well on Lancaster or the RFU.
Farcical.
No matter how good he was 1 year was not enough to get up to International standard in a different code.
Good luck to him, the pressure will be back off.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 05, 2015, 09:35:09 PM
No matter how good he was 1 year was not enough to get up to International standard in a different code.
Good luck to him, the pressure will be back off.
Burgess coming in for a bit of criticism on 5 live this morning, being accused of using Bath as a gateway to playing in the Rugby Union world cup when he ultimately was going to go back to the RL as they've their world cup in two years time.
In saying that he's supposed to have family in Sydney and his girlfriend is an Aussie!
The mole with some great articles as usual.
http://dementedmole.com/
Good to see Leo Cullen giving the younger lads at Leinster a shot. Ringrose starting at 13 and Cian Kelleher on the wing v Scarlets.
Quote from: johnneycool on November 06, 2015, 09:18:58 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 05, 2015, 09:35:09 PM
No matter how good he was 1 year was not enough to get up to International standard in a different code.
Good luck to him, the pressure will be back off.
Burgess coming in for a bit of criticism on 5 live this morning, being accused of using Bath as a gateway to playing in the Rugby Union world cup when he ultimately was going to go back to the RL as they've their world cup in two years time.
In saying that he's supposed to have family in Sydney and his girlfriend is an Aussie!
He has plenty of family there - his brothers recently signed contract extensions with the Rabbitohs until 2018! The ma lives there too, so it's not a convenient cover story.
It may well have been his long term plan to go back to League but the RFU and England set up have let him down badly. he should never have been selected in the first place and was then subsequently hung out to dry. If he'd been let develop, he could be an absolutely top class flanker.
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2015, 11:14:17 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 06, 2015, 09:18:58 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 05, 2015, 09:35:09 PM
No matter how good he was 1 year was not enough to get up to International standard in a different code.
Good luck to him, the pressure will be back off.
Burgess coming in for a bit of criticism on 5 live this morning, being accused of using Bath as a gateway to playing in the Rugby Union world cup when he ultimately was going to go back to the RL as they've their world cup in two years time.
In saying that he's supposed to have family in Sydney and his girlfriend is an Aussie!
He has plenty of family there - his brothers recently signed contract extensions with the Rabbitohs until 2018! The ma lives there too, so it's not a convenient cover story.
It may well have been his long term plan to go back to League but the RFU and England set up have let him down badly. he should never have been selected in the first place and was then subsequently hung out to dry. If he'd been let develop, he could be an absolutely top class flanker.
That was the thing, Bath started him out at centre and quickly realised that he was a much better flanker and he played there for them right up to his call up when Lancaster was at pains to say he was in the squad as a centre!
I think Lancaster was wanting crash ball from him, time and time again as is the current England want.
Quote from: johnneycool on November 06, 2015, 02:05:41 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 06, 2015, 11:14:17 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 06, 2015, 09:18:58 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 05, 2015, 09:35:09 PM
No matter how good he was 1 year was not enough to get up to International standard in a different code.
Good luck to him, the pressure will be back off.
Burgess coming in for a bit of criticism on 5 live this morning, being accused of using Bath as a gateway to playing in the Rugby Union world cup when he ultimately was going to go back to the RL as they've their world cup in two years time.
In saying that he's supposed to have family in Sydney and his girlfriend is an Aussie!
He has plenty of family there - his brothers recently signed contract extensions with the Rabbitohs until 2018! The ma lives there too, so it's not a convenient cover story.
It may well have been his long term plan to go back to League but the RFU and England set up have let him down badly. he should never have been selected in the first place and was then subsequently hung out to dry. If he'd been let develop, he could be an absolutely top class flanker.
That was the thing, Bath started him out at centre and quickly realised that he was a much better flanker and he played there for them right up to his call up when Lancaster was at pains to say he was in the squad as a centre!
I think Lancaster was wanting crash ball from him, time and time again as is the current England want.
I think they saw him boss Sonny Bill in the last league world cup, figured SB plays centre in Union and then decided that he had to play centre. I don't think they're helped by the fact Farrell is the backs coach. He had a less than stellar Union career and was again someone who perhaps would have been better as a flanker than as the centre they tried to make him.
Lancaster is gone (http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/34500716). I initially thought he might survive, given he was a steady diplomat who had displayed some much-needed grace after the boorishness of Martin Johnson and was willing to work within the domestic players rule imposed on him by the Premiership clubs. But he was toast as soon as it became clear that he was making it up as he went along with regards to Sam Burgess. It's a pity. Ye Olde Fartonians will revert to someone who thinks being an asshole is a necessary condition for success.
Have to say I always admired the humility of Lancaster
And Ford is now sticking the boot into Burgess.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34783108
I's say Lancaster was taking in the lie of the land this past few weeks, very few sympathetic journos on board so his future looked very bleak. Stuart Barnes in the Times was brutal in his many assessments, other Times journos were every bit as harsh.
Back to Red Dwarf i suppose
Lancaster was doing really well with England. Then Sam Burgess happened, made a very good coach look very foolish. Wonder was there something in a contract somewhere that made Lancaster pick Burgess or did Farrell just have too much influence. Seems truly bizarre.
A club like London Irish that has lost it's way should look at Lancaster as an option.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 11, 2015, 02:25:53 PM
Lancaster was doing really well with England. Then Sam Burgess happened, made a very good coach look very foolish. Wonder was there something in a contract somewhere that made Lancaster pick Burgess or did Farrell just have too much influence. Seems truly bizarre.
A club like London Irish that has lost it's way should look at Lancaster as an option.
I think Farrell maybe had too much influence then add the fact that Farrell Junior had a few issues around the team probably left the management open for some criticism. Plus they played pretty rubbish, I think Robshaw has been a very poor captain for them since he took on the role, I dont think other teams respect him and he appears to be a bit of a non-entity around the games.
I'm looking forward to Lancaster cutting loose and saying that Chris Robshaw is the biggest fool this side of Pluto. One job, Captain Robshaw, you had one job!
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 11, 2015, 02:25:53 PM
Lancaster was doing really well with England. Then Sam Burgess happened, made a very good coach look very foolish. Wonder was there something in a contract somewhere that made Lancaster pick Burgess or did Farrell just have too much influence. Seems truly bizarre.
A club like London Irish that has lost it's way should look at Lancaster as an option.
I think how well he was doing was over estimated. I reckon picking Burgess was the easy option for a coach who had few ideas about getting a backline moving. A better coach would have backed himself in packing Slade. Same goes for Farrell over Ford.
Martin Johnson won the 6N in his final year which Lancaster never managed. The stuff about throwing dwarves and jumping off ferries at the 2011 WC was way overblown. Not particularly high jinx by rugby standards, but it was handy to beat Johnson with and propagate the story that England needed drastic rehabilitation.
Lancaster was given a free pass for a couple of years because he supposedly made England like dislikeable and less arrogant. But ffs, England rugby by definition should be arrogant and dislikeable. ;)
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 11, 2015, 03:12:17 PM
Martin Johnson won the 6N in his final year which Lancaster never managed.
That seems to be viewed as a bad thing these days.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 11, 2015, 02:25:53 PM
Lancaster was doing really well with England. Then Sam Burgess happened, made a very good coach look very foolish. Wonder was there something in a contract somewhere that made Lancaster pick Burgess or did Farrell just have too much influence. Seems truly bizarre.
A club like London Irish that has lost it's way should look at Lancaster as an option.
Lucozade Sport could sponsor them
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 11, 2015, 03:12:17 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 11, 2015, 02:25:53 PM
Lancaster was doing really well with England. Then Sam Burgess happened, made a very good coach look very foolish. Wonder was there something in a contract somewhere that made Lancaster pick Burgess or did Farrell just have too much influence. Seems truly bizarre.
A club like London Irish that has lost it's way should look at Lancaster as an option.
I think how well he was doing was over estimated. I reckon picking Burgess was the easy option for a coach who had few ideas about getting a backline moving. A better coach would have backed himself in packing Slade. Same goes for Farrell over Ford.
Martin Johnson won the 6N in his final year which Lancaster never managed. The stuff about throwing dwarves and jumping off ferries at the 2011 WC was way overblown. Not particularly high jinx by rugby standards, but it was handy to beat Johnson with and propagate the story that England needed drastic rehabilitation.
Lancaster was given a free pass for a couple of years because he supposedly made England like dislikeable and less arrogant. But ffs, England rugby by definition should be arrogant and dislikeable. ;)
Different barometer's of success, he is also only one of 3 coaches to inflict a defeat on NZ in the last 4 years. Also won in Australia, beat Ireland 4 out of 5. All while building towards this World Cup, he was developing a young exciting England team. For some reason he lost his philosophies and reverted in selection to the conservative, Robshaw in hindsight was indeed a poor choice as Captain but picking a captain is not an exact science and a captain can be made foolish by players. He was runners up 4 times in the 6 nations and should delivered have delivered. To me he is a good coach for whatever reasons lost his way, give him a club side and I'd be surprised if he wasn't a success.
At the risk of turning rugby talk on here into a Whiff of Cordite linkathon, he nailed (while talking about New Zealand) what let Lancaster down (http://whiffofcordite.com/2015/11/04/bnz-the-standard-bearers/):
QuoteOne argument that can now be canned is that winning tournaments requires something certain commentators refer to as 'cup rugby'. For 'cup rugby', see a dull, monotonous game plan involving aerial kicking and one-out runners. Long a bugbear of ours, it has never made sense that the sort of rugby required to beat an opponent in one form of competition would be different to that of another.
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2015, 04:20:00 PM
At the risk of turning rugby talk on here into a Whiff of Cordite linkathon, he nailed (while talking about New Zealand) what let Lancaster down (http://whiffofcordite.com/2015/11/04/bnz-the-standard-bearers/):
QuoteOne argument that can now be canned is that winning tournaments requires something certain commentators refer to as 'cup rugby'. For 'cup rugby', see a dull, monotonous game plan involving aerial kicking and one-out runners. Long a bugbear of ours, it has never made sense that the sort of rugby required to beat an opponent in one form of competition would be different to that of another.
Yep went conservative maybe he bought into this and if you look at the World Cup since 1995 this was seemingly the winning template. NZ fairly turned that on it's head.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 11, 2015, 04:25:14 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2015, 04:20:00 PM
At the risk of turning rugby talk on here into a Whiff of Cordite linkathon, he nailed (while talking about New Zealand) what let Lancaster down (http://whiffofcordite.com/2015/11/04/bnz-the-standard-bearers/):
QuoteOne argument that can now be canned is that winning tournaments requires something certain commentators refer to as 'cup rugby'. For 'cup rugby', see a dull, monotonous game plan involving aerial kicking and one-out runners. Long a bugbear of ours, it has never made sense that the sort of rugby required to beat an opponent in one form of competition would be different to that of another.
Yep went conservative maybe he bought into this and if you look at the World Cup since 1995 this was seemingly the winning template. NZ fairly turned that on it's head.
Not before they won ugly in 2011...
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2015, 02:43:00 PM
I'm looking forward to Lancaster cutting loose and saying that Chris Robshaw is the biggest fool this side of Pluto. One job, Captain Robshaw, you had one job!
Can anyone name another England captain that was further from a Lions first XV?
Even now the Welsh and Irish back rows would be miles ahead of him.
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2015, 08:36:15 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 11, 2015, 02:43:00 PM
I'm looking forward to Lancaster cutting loose and saying that Chris Robshaw is the biggest fool this side of Pluto. One job, Captain Robshaw, you had one job!
Can anyone name another England captain that was further from a Lions first XV?
Probably Phil De Glanville. Ability is not as key for the England captain though. It's the image they project.
Nice guy Robshaw was chosen as the antithesis of all that was supposedly toxic before him. Just like De Glanville was a switch away from the boorish and obnoxious Will Carling.
Who'll get the Lions gig??
I'd near give it to Gatland again - he's probably the best equipped coach and wouldn't lack confidence/motivation.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 13, 2015, 04:52:25 PM
Who'll get the Lions gig??
I'd near give it to Gatland again - he's probably the best equipped coach and wouldn't lack confidence/motivation.
But would it be Wales mark 2 this time?
Phil de Glanville. Proper English rugby name, that. Family came over with William the Ba$tard Conqueror. Then again, that's only one half of English rugby. The other half have names like Fester Harmanstreetbaugh (pronounced Harbow) and their family have been bothering sheep in the West Country since Æthelred the Unready.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 13, 2015, 04:52:25 PM
Who'll get the Lions gig??
I'd near give it to Gatland again - he's probably the best equipped coach and wouldn't lack confidence/motivation.
Why not Joe? Been the most successful coach of the current international sides since the last tour?
Eddie Jones the new England coach! Serious appointment. Man is a rugby genius!
Interesting. He had a fair cut at the English contractual and club system. I think he might either a) cause a major bust up with the clubs or b) get frustrated and leave.
Was this 'cut' since he's been appointed or some time back?
The RFU are wealthy enough to buy the top 20-30 players out of their club contracts if needs be.
Whether they do it or not is another thing.
A couple of days ago I saw it in the paper. Here you go. Has a go at Bath for their treatment of Burgess as well.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/17/sam-burgess-eddi-jones-treatment-england-bath (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/17/sam-burgess-eddi-jones-treatment-england-bath)
There was a lot of hand-wringing going on in the aftermath of England's calamitous exit about the folly of not picking foreign-based players, specifically Steffon Armitage. They seem to forget that the policy is at the heart of the compromise between the clubs and the RFU. It's designed to put players off taking the French euro, thus driving down the wage pressures in the English game. Jones can't be unaware of what is driving the policy. Whether he will be content to not agitate against it once he is in situ ("sources close to the English coach") is another matter.
Quote from: deiseach on November 20, 2015, 10:33:52 AM
There was a lot of hand-wringing going on in the aftermath of England's calamitous exit about the folly of not picking foreign-based players, specifically Steffon Armitage. They seem to forget that the policy is at the heart of the compromise between the clubs and the RFU. It's designed to put players off taking the French euro, thus driving down the wage pressures in the English game. Jones can't be unaware of what is driving the policy. Whether he will be content to not agitate against it once he is in situ ("sources close to the English coach") is another matter.
With the clubs holding the players I'd say Jones of whoever is England manager has a limited time with the players and can't be dictating to the clubs who plays where and when like Schmidt can.
I can see Jones throwing a few hissy fits if he doesn't get his way.
Quote from: johnneycool on November 20, 2015, 10:36:45 AM
With the clubs holding the players I'd say Jones of whoever is England manager has a limited time with the players and can't be dictating to the clubs who plays where and when like Schmidt can.
I can see Jones throwing a few hissy fits if he doesn't get his way.
I think you are right. The reason I initially thought Lancaster would survive (the revelation that he was making it up as he went along with Burgess are what did for him) is that he always maintained the impression that he was content to work with what he was given. There must have been moments when he thought 'if only I had Armitage' but, in public anyway, he just got on with it which kept the lid on the simmering tensions with the clubs. I don't think Jones will be quite so diplomatic. He's doing them the favour by taking the job.