Rugby world cup 2015

[INDIANA]

There were seven Rugby Championship vs Six Nations games in this World Cup. In two of them the Six Nations team would have gained a losing bonus point.

Sums it up beautifully in my view . Southern Hemisphere play a different sport and it's one that people want to watch

[AZOffaly]

Very disappointing, but I'm still, stubbornly, sticking to my guns that that Ireland team was fit to beat Argentina, even with the injuries. I think most people knew it was going to be tough, but I expected Ireland to have enough, even with Sexton out.

However, despite all this talk about accuracy, attacking lines, ball handling skills, rugby remains, at it's core, a physical confrontation and you have to impose your will on the other team in order to move onto those finer details. This is Cup rugby, and you need to set the tone, set the agenda and prepare the groundwork for the implementation of tactical plans.

Ireland were just at a much lower pitch to Argentina for the first 20 minutes, and in my view that is when the damage was done. Every Argentina ball carry made ground. Ireland tackled going backwards. Our defensive line was jogging up to the gain line, Argentina's ball carriers were smashing through. They were committing 2 or 3 to the ruck and smashing our lads back to get quick ball. In contrast, when we had the ball our runners were getting smashed backwards. Our ruck clear outs were timid and we let them disrupt. In short we were the nail, and Argentina were the hammer. They were at a much higher pitch than us, and that was very disappointing.

However, if Argentina were that much better than us, we would not have been able to gather ourselves, get back into the game and have a kick to draw level. That's why I don't buy the simple analysis that 'oh Ireland were missing too many and Argentina were way better'. The period from say the 25th to the 60th minute, Ireland were better, and Argentina started to get panicky. That prop was very lucky not to get red.

After the missed penalty, Argentina, to their credit, were the ones to kick for home, but I feel that's where our injuries hurt us as our substitutions at that stage were not going to win the game. I also think we emptied the tank in the chase, you often see that in games of all sports, but my view is that if we had been at the correct pitch, and were the ones laying down the law to the ARgentinians from kick off, it would have been a very different game.


As for Scotland, oh Jaysus. That was brutal. I see where there is war with Joubert today, is that because the Prop picked up the ball, but it appeared to be batted back by the Aussie, not knocked on by a Scot? That's what I thought when I saw it, but I had to leave before any analysis. The Scots almost saved the Northern Hemisphere's blushes there, and the Welsh were possibly authors of their own downfall against South Africa.

[finbar o tool]

Very disappointing, but I'm still, stubbornly, sticking to my guns that that Ireland team was fit to beat Argentina, even with the injuries. I think most people knew it was going to be tough, but I expected Ireland to have enough, even with Sexton out.

However, despite all this talk about accuracy, attacking lines, ball handling skills, rugby remains, at it's core, a physical confrontation and you have to impose your will on the other team in order to move onto those finer details. This is Cup rugby, and you need to set the tone, set the agenda and prepare the groundwork for the implementation of tactical plans.

Ireland were just at a much lower pitch to Argentina for the first 20 minutes, and in my view that is when the damage was done. Every Argentina ball carry made ground. Ireland tackled going backwards. Our defensive line was jogging up to the gain line, Argentina's ball carriers were smashing through. They were committing 2 or 3 to the ruck and smashing our lads back to get quick ball. In contrast, when we had the ball our runners were getting smashed backwards. Our ruck clear outs were timid and we let them disrupt. In short we were the nail, and Argentina were the hammer. They were at a much higher pitch than us, and that was very disappointing.

However, if Argentina were that much better than us, we would not have been able to gather ourselves, get back into the game and have a kick to draw level. That's why I don't buy the simple analysis that 'oh Ireland were missing too many and Argentina were way better'. The period from say the 25th to the 60th minute, Ireland were better, and Argentina started to get panicky. That prop was very lucky not to get red.

After the missed penalty, Argentina, to their credit, were the ones to kick for home, but I feel that's where our injuries hurt us as our substitutions at that stage were not going to win the game. I also think we emptied the tank in the chase, you often see that in games of all sports, but my view is that if we had been at the correct pitch, and were the ones laying down the law to the ARgentinians from kick off, it would have been a very different game.


As for Scotland, oh Jaysus. That was brutal. I see where there is war with Joubert today, is that because the Prop picked up the ball, but it appeared to be batted back by the Aussie, not knocked on by a Scot? That's what I thought when I saw it, but I had to leave before any analysis. The Scots almost saved the Northern Hemisphere's blushes there, and the Welsh were possibly authors of their own downfall against South Africa.

agreed. good post AZ.
so much better than boring Indiana! its gas how some people like that seem to get joy from Ireland losing and spouting how bad we really are, that the rest of us supporters are delusional for being optimistic!

injuries or not we were a good enough team to win. but that's sport. we played bad and they played good! cant put it much simpler than that. not only should we have leveled things with that penalty we missed, but we should have actually came away from that passage of play with a try. we had the momentum there and we should have pushed hard for a try and took the lead. but we didn't, we blew our chances and that was that.
any news on Tommy Bowes injury?

it would be worse to be Scottish this morning. they only had to put in a solid lineout and keep the ball for 60 seconds and they fucked up!

as the panel suggested at the end of the game, is it a case of the southern hemisphere going with more speed than power. is it as simple as that? im not so sure, but the northern hemisphere in general do seem to be lacking something.

[AZOffaly]

In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.

[INDIANA]

In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.

AZ Wales had far more injuries then us and came out of a much tougher pool

They haven't complained about injuries once- they just got on with it. Gatland again today- injuries are not an excuse he said - we had the chances to win it.

Just as a point of information Argentina are down 3 tight-head props, and their first choice second row(who got a 9 week ban in the first game) and their first choice centre yesterday.

Injuries in a game like rugby union are just an excuse. All teams have them.

We lost because we were beaten by a better team and in my opinion we grossly underestimated them. If we really thought they could beat us we'd have prepared to defend our wider channels better. One of our wingers missed five tackles out of nine yesterday.

The 6 Nations is a second rate competition- we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.

It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.

Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC

[thewobbler]

I'd go along with AZ too.

Despite the horrific opening quarter, once Ireland got within 7 points, I went through 20 minutes of being convinced we would win. The scoreline really doesn't reflect how close Ireland got to turning the Pumas into a blubbering mess.

Ultimately, the absence of O'Brien and O'Mahoney was crucial. While Madigan made mistakes, there was very little any fly-half could have done to stem the rampant Argentine running and rucking of that opening quarter, and to be honest, I reckon POC would have been gasping for air after 10 minutes against their young locks. But, without O'Brien and O'Mahoney, the ability to drive a team backwards was missing. I'm a fan of Chris Henry, but him and Murphy just don't have the energy and intensity of the men they replaced.... and Heaslip and Ruddock are a step down again. It really is an awful shame that injury robbed of us of Ferris last year and O'Donnell this.

Credit to Luke Fitz. I have called him out since he wrongly took Trimble's place, and will continue to do so forever, but he showed something yesterday that was seemingly beyond the Kearneys or Henshaw i.e. a deftness on his feet, and would have been the hero of the day if more of his teammates had have also lifted the bar.

Not quite sure why Rory Best got replaced. You can watch heart monitors all you want, but replacing your best player on the day when the game is in the melting pot, is just bizarre.

Fair play to the Pumas. There is undoubtedly something to be said for facing NZ regularly; you either learn how to swim quickly, or you sink quickly.  It was All-Black reminiscent of how clinical they were, both from boot and open play, when they got a whiff of scoring.

[thewobbler]

Also, does anyone know why Ireland weren't pressurising Argentina under the high ball throughout the first half?

Were the kicks bad, or were our back-3 just taking a breather? It was most odd either way.

[AZOffaly]

In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.

AZ Wales had far more injuries then us and came out of a much tougher pool

They haven't complained about injuries once- they just got on with it. Gatland again today- injuries are not an excuse he said - we had the chances to win it.

Just as a point of information Argentina are down 3 tight-head props, and their first choice second row(who got a 9 week ban in the first game) and their first choice centre yesterday.

Injuries in a game like rugby union are just an excuse. All teams have them.

We lost because we were beaten by a better team and in my opinion we grossly underestimated them. If we really thought they could beat us we'd have prepared to defend our wider channels better. One of our wingers missed five tackles out of nine yesterday.

The 6 Nations is a second rate competition- we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.

It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.

Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC

I'm not using the injuries as an excuse, but they are a fact of life. Read what I said again, I said because we weren't at the required pitch and intensity, Argentina blew us away, and because it took such an effort to get back into the game, we were spent when Argentina came again. That's where the subs would have been useful, but we shouldn't have gotten ourselves in such a game chase early on. The opening 20 were the problem.

[NAG1]

In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.

AZ Wales had far more injuries then us and came out of a much tougher pool

They haven't complained about injuries once- they just got on with it. Gatland again today- injuries are not an excuse he said - we had the chances to win it.

Just as a point of information Argentina are down 3 tight-head props, and their first choice second row(who got a 9 week ban in the first game) and their first choice centre yesterday.

Injuries in a game like rugby union are just an excuse. All teams have them.

We lost because we were beaten by a better team and in my opinion we grossly underestimated them. If we really thought they could beat us we'd have prepared to defend our wider channels better. One of our wingers missed five tackles out of nine yesterday.

The 6 Nations is a second rate competition- we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.

It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.

Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC

I'm not using the injuries as an excuse, but they are a fact of life. Read what I said again, I said because we weren't at the required pitch and intensity, Argentina blew us away, and because it took such an effort to get back into the game, we were spent when Argentina came again. That's where the subs would have been useful, but we shouldn't have gotten ourselves in such a game chase early on. The opening 20 were the problem.

None of this disguises the fact that if the referee had not bottled a big decision Ireland would have been playing against 14 men for most of half an hour, this would have changed the complexion of the game immensely.

[Rudi]

Neil Francis article in Indo is mean spirited, thought Hookes report for once was spot on.

[AZOffaly]

Yeah, but that's the breaks of refereeing. Look at Scotland! At a macro level, Ireland started the game flat, for whatever reason, and they paid the penalty.

The fact that we had a situation where we were 3 points down, and probably should have been against 14 men, and then missed a kick to draw level, reinforces my point that there wasn't some massive talent deficit.

[INDIANA]

In fairness, Indiana was flagging the Argentine threat beforehand, so he can feel vindicated. I don't think sensible Irish were any way writing the Argentinians off, but it's the way the game unfolded that disappointed me.

AZ Wales had far more injuries then us and came out of a much tougher pool

They haven't complained about injuries once- they just got on with it. Gatland again today- injuries are not an excuse he said - we had the chances to win it.

Just as a point of information Argentina are down 3 tight-head props, and their first choice second row(who got a 9 week ban in the first game) and their first choice centre yesterday.

Injuries in a game like rugby union are just an excuse. All teams have them.

We lost because we were beaten by a better team and in my opinion we grossly underestimated them. If we really thought they could beat us we'd have prepared to defend our wider channels better. One of our wingers missed five tackles out of nine yesterday.

The 6 Nations is a second rate competition- we can see now why Argentina declined the offer to join the 6 Nations five years ago and instead joined the Rugby Championship.

It's funny there was serious opposition from the other Rugby Championship partners to letting them in and you can see why yesterday.

Argentina has a big population of people and stature wise they are genetically a physically big nation. Put your money on them now for the 2019 WC

I'm not using the injuries as an excuse, but they are a fact of life. Read what I said again, I said because we weren't at the required pitch and intensity, Argentina blew us away, and because it took such an effort to get back into the game, we were spent when Argentina came again. That's where the subs would have been useful, but we shouldn't have gotten ourselves in such a game chase early on. The opening 20 were the problem.

We got ourselves into a game chase because we didn't prepare for it. Over-confidence was all over that first 20 minutes yesterday. Poor line speed in defence, poor kicking and poor communication

Argentina played the same way they did versus NZ. I don't believe coaching staff underestimated them - I do believe the players did.

You know yourself you're going out of the dressing room to play a team you expect to beat. And when it goes wrong -sometimes you can't turn it around.

We've never won a game under JS where we're behind at half time. The game plan isn't setup for it

[AZOffaly]

Possibly. Certainly something was off in the opening exchanges, and our intensity. And you are right, it is hard to shift that, but in fairness to the players, they did raise the intensity levels, and we started winning the breakdown, and we suddenly started making yards. But it took so much out of us I think we had nothing left when we hit 60-65 minutes.

I would agree with you that that is a symptom of poor mental preparation of some sort.

As for the gameplan, I have been worried about the reliance on the box kick for a while. Good teams gobble that stuff up. And in the opening, even our bloody kick chases were slow and ponderous. The entire team seemed to suffer from that dreaded malaise that all coaches hate to see. Players waiting for the next player to do something to lift it, instead of taking it upon themselves to do something big to lift the team.

[Bord na Mona man]

Ireland started flat, but maybe that's partly because the Northern hemisphere tempo to games.

I've often heard the sage phrase that you have to 'earn the right to go wide'. Basically you're supposed to spend the first 20 minutes exchanging kicks and bashing the opposition with your pack and only then open up the play when you think you've tenderised them. Argentina went bananas from the off and caught Ireland in the headlights.

[finbar o tool]

it WAS a mental issue i think, but not a in the sense that the players underestimated Argentina. they are pros, and well coached pros at that. a bunch of pros who have just waved goodbye to 5 certain starters. 5 of their very best players. i really really dont see how they would have taken Argentina lightly.
they went out full of intentions etc but just didnt start as brightly as they wanted and Argentina were so good yesterday, they were punished early. and AZ makes a good point that a lot of effort and heart was then wasted trying to get back into the game. wasted is probably the wrong word there but, it takes its toll, things didnt go our way, unforced errors a plenty.
i think a lot of supporters really thought this was really our year to at least make it to the semis!
disappointing!