gaaboard.com

Should be grateful to have got in in the first place without firing this parting shot

Delaney hits out at GAA's stance on Croker
John Delaney has claimed the FAI and IRFU might not have gone ahead with the Aviva Stadium development if they had known Croke Park would be available to them in the long term.
The GAA only agreed to open its doors to soccer and rugby in 2007 on a temporary basis, but the financial success of staging international games at Croke Park has seen a change in attitude in the GAA, and it is expected that a motion will passed at Congress in April which will give Central Council the power to open the stadium to other sports in the future.
But speaking after yesterday's announcement that the Republic of Ireland's glamour friendly on March 3 against Brazil will take place in Arsenal's Emirates Stadium and not Croke Park, the FAI chief executive again ruled out a return for the international soccer team to GAA headquarters for at least 10 years, stating that the GAA's initial position forced soccer and rugby chiefs to redevelop Lansdowne Road and sign long-term contracts with sponsors and suppliers.
"Had it been made clear going in that Croke Park would remain open in the longer term, I think that discussion could have taken place," the Waterford native said.
"But it was made clear to both Philip Browne (IRFU CEO) and myself when we attended the first meetings that Croke Park was not going to become available to us in the longer haul."

This is good news. They can feck off ;D

What a shower of knackers.

Croker offered to reduce the normal rent/fee by about 500k for the Brazil game and this clown tries to deflect the attention from the deal the FAI did with that promotions company that brought the game to Highbury.

PS - if anyone wants a tasty bit of info on that clown, pm me..

"Had it been made clear going in that Croke Park would remain open in the longer term, I think that discussion could have taken place," the Waterford native said.
"But it was made clear to both Philip Browne (IRFU CEO) and myself when we attended the first meetings that Croke Park was not going to become available to us in the longer haul."

I don't see any 'parting shot' or anyone 'hitting out' when you examine what was actually said instead of being seduced by a headline writer, in fairness. I'n no big fan of Delaney's etc. but I wouldn't have him brought out and shot for this, unless there's fuller quotes elsewhere where he comes across as ungrateful.

Sounds ungrateful to me... Why has the FAI not managed to put a decent stadium together rather than act like the GAA and Rugby crowd owe them something?   

Quote from: cavanmaniac on January 16, 2010, 05:54:42 PM
"Had it been made clear going in that Croke Park would remain open in the longer term, I think that discussion could have taken place," the Waterford native said.
"But it was made clear to both Philip Browne (IRFU CEO) and myself when we attended the first meetings that Croke Park was not going to become available to us in the longer haul."

I don't see any 'parting shot' or anyone 'hitting out' when you examine what was actually said instead of being seduced by a headline writer, in fairness. I'n no big fan of Delaney's etc. but I wouldn't have him brought out and shot for this, unless there's fuller quotes elsewhere where he comes across as ungrateful.

True. I didn't see all that much wrong with it. He bascially said if they knew that Croke Park would be available long-term they would have had to have had discussions regarding any redevelopment of Lansdowne.

I think the IRFU were set on redeveloping LR anyway so it probably makes little difference.

dont see where he thanked the gaa either

He did thank the GAA a while ago. How many times does he have to say thanks? I don't see what he's done wrong here, and I'm no fan of his.

Basically he's said that when the GAA initially said it was until the completion of Lansdowne Road, he's right. And that's what a lot of our members said at the time too. Of course it was always likely to be available after that, once you've opened it up, it's a lot easier to stay open, and Delaney could be accused of being a bit disingenuous with his comment, but on face value he's 100% correct.

He's also correct to say they've done a deal with Aviva for the naming rights, etc, so they'd be fairly unhappy if the biggest and best games (the only ones you'd need Croker for) were transferred out of the stadium they've paid millions to name.

Storm teacup methinks.

It is not a storm at all but he comes across as ungrateful and has forgotten the begging bowl he arrived at the GAA's doors with.

There isn't even a tea cup let alone a storm in one.

If this kind of thing can annoy or preoccupy you longrunthefox, then you mustn't have enough going on your life.

I know, I thought of nothing else all day and am considering going to the FAI's headquarters and setting myself on fire  ::) 

What a shower of knackers.

That's a non sequiter Hardy, or maybe a moot point. :D

I totally agree with you Longrunstheffox but graciousness is not what you would expect from him.  How ironic it is that he should say it yesterday after our so called great body prostituting themselves during the week re Brazil game.

The knackers in this case are on the gaa side,who reluctantly made Croke Park available at exorbitant rental charges (my soccer tickets increased from 45 euro to 70 at

Croker) and the GAA are begging both the soccer and rugby associations to stay as they see the cash cow running dry.

Of course Delaney is right. Croke Park should have been designated the National Sports Stadium at Bertie's request all those years ago

Quote from: longrunsthefox on January 16, 2010, 06:50:38 PM
I know, I thought of nothing else all day and am considering going to the FAI's headquarters and setting myself on fire  ::)

Are you a Dundalk fan by any chance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jEJLy34RBQ&feature=PlayList&p=290028333D6ABF15&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=26

Quote from: T Fearon on January 16, 2010, 10:24:52 PM

Of course Delaney is right. Croke Park should have been designated the National Sports Stadium at Bertie's request all those years ago

Can't agree Tony.

The Govt met with the FAI, IRFU and GAA around the time of Italia 90 and wanted a joint venture stadium between all four parties - the FAI & IRFU both scoffed at the prospect as they believed they didn't need the GAA.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 16, 2010, 10:20:13 PM
The knackers in this case are on the gaa side,who reluctantly made Croke Park available at exorbitant rental charges (my soccer tickets increased from 45 euro to 70 at

I wouldn't call €1.3m in rent for 75,000 seats exorbirant - I think it's the FAI who are being a little greedy with their margins..

Croker was offered to the FAI for €830,000 for the Brazil game.

should never have let the beggars in

Quote from: T Fearon on January 16, 2010, 10:20:13 PM
The knackers in this case are on the gaa side,who reluctantly made Croke Park available at exorbitant rental charges (my soccer tickets increased from 45 euro to 70 at

will the prices go back to €45 when they move back to Lansdowne

Agree they should never have been allowed in. Shows the nature of delaney and co that even as a "professional" organisation, they would happily scrouge off a proudly amateur organisation for a stadium rather than get off their asses and build their own.

Bye Bye
Don't wanna be a fool for you
Just another player in your game for two
You may hate me but it ain't no lie,
Baby, bye, bye, bye...
Bye Bye
Don't really wanna make it tough,
I just wanna tell you that I had enough.
It might sound crazy,
But it ain't no lie,
Baby, bye, bye, bye

It seems to me that the GAA are now the beggars and just watch the corporate sector up sticks to the new Aviva leaving the boxes at Croker empty,gaa tickets (now at 20 quid for first round championship games) going through the roof, more championship matches being diverted from headquarters in the summer to facilititate money making ventures like Bono and his mates etc.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2010, 11:19:13 AM
It seems to me that the GAA are now the beggars and just watch the corporate sector up sticks to the new Aviva leaving the boxes at Croker empty,gaa tickets (now at 20 quid for first round championship games) going through the roof, more championship matches being diverted from headquarters in the summer to facilititate money making ventures like Bono and his mates etc.

International soccer friendly games were charged at over 3 times the price of 1st round championship games. Having watched bits of these friendlys on tv I know were the better value is. How much does is cost you to run to Spurs to watch premier league games? The gaa don't have that many games in the year and need to generate money some were. The day we go begging to the IRFU or FAI is the day we are in trouble.

The FAI and IRFU made more profit out of the games in Croke Park than they were making in the old Landsdowne so that crap about you paying more for your soccer tickets was rubbish.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2010, 11:19:13 AM
It seems to me that the GAA are now the beggars and just watch the corporate sector up sticks to the new Aviva leaving the boxes at Croker empty,gaa tickets (now at 20 quid for first round championship games) going through the roof, more championship matches being diverted from headquarters in the summer to facilititate money making ventures like Bono and his mates etc.

A few facts for you Tony. The FAI can't sell their corporate boxes. My workplace and many others who had intended to do so- told them to shove it when they came with the prices they quoted. The FAI are in serious financial difficulty.

The Aviva Stadium is a shite development. 37,500 seats for the ordinary punter- 12,500 for corporate sector. Too few. Arguably the biggest white elephant in Irish society today. Then again anything with Bertie's fingerprints on it we shouldn't be surprised.
When the Irish rugby team were bad Landsdowne could still get 50000. So what do they do when rugby is on a high? They build the same size of a stadium. What a laugh- and what a let-off for the Gaa.

It is time you stopped "dreaming" and woke up. The GAA is now effectively begging the FAI and IRFU to stage more games at Croker, even after they move into their new stadium.

Incidentally the term "begging" implies petitioning goods or services for free, and thats certainly not what the IRFU and FAI got Croke Park for.

Indiana, with the current popularity of rugby and soccer reviving, I'd say when a lot of the corporate deals run out at Croker the box owners will move swiftly to the Aviva.

Hard to judge what size of stadium is adequate given capital and maintenance costs. Aviva is arguably too small then again by the same argument Croker is too large, given that the only two GAA fixtures guaranteed to fill it annually are the two All Ireland Finals, and by all accounts it can't be opened at all without losing money unless a minimum crowd of 35,000 or so is in attendance.

I think the GAA should be open to criticism for the mistakes and incompetency just as the FAI is continually

By all accounts the FAI are the ones missing their tickets sales targets for the Aviva, as the prices are sky high.
Corporate Ireland doesn't seem greatly wowed at the prospect of a string of meaningless friendlies (that only the ROI seem to take seriously) and qualifier games mostly against numpties.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fai-finances-cast-shadow-over-stadium-1873260.html (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fai-finances-cast-shadow-over-stadium-1873260.html)

Since there is no major debt on Croke Park, the GAA aren't under the same pressure to make ticket sales.
The GAA exceeded all Croke Park ticket sales expectations back in 1993 when the country wasn't flush, so I'd be surprised if there is a capitulation now.

On the Croke Park ticket prices - the FAI and IRFU all added on much more than the CP rental premium onto their ticket prices. I'm sure they were aware they'd the average GAA bashing Joe would naturally blame the GAA for the price increase.
The GAA rental figure was 26% of gate receipts. Only slightly above the accepted stadium benchmark range of 22%.
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/01/22/story11181.asp (http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/01/22/story11181.asp)

Prices won't be dropping back in the Aviva...but sure that's the GAA's fault!  :D

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2010, 11:38:22 AM
It is time you stopped "dreaming" and woke up. The GAA is now effectively begging the FAI and IRFU to stage more games at Croker, even after they move into their new stadium.

Incidentally the term "begging" implies petitioning goods or services for free, and thats certainly not what the IRFU and FAI got Croke Park for.

I do not agree with the vast majority of what you have said but if you change 'begging ' to 'prostituting' (the use of a skill or ability in a way that is considered unworthy, usually for financial gain) then we have grounds for negotiations to commence

I'm not blaming the GAA, they took advantage of a situation and made a lot of money in the process. The deal with the IRFU and FAI was simply a business deal and its laughable to suggest that the FAI are beggars etc. They got a service and paid handsomely for it.

No I don't expect the ticket prices at Aviva to revert to their Lansdowne levels or anything like it, but how much have GAA tickets inflated in the same period?

But the fact remains here that it is the GAA who are now bpleading with the FAI and IRFU to consider still using Croke Park and it is inevitable that the corporate facilities available at the Aviva will impact seriously on Croke Park.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2010, 11:43:36 AM
Indiana, with the current popularity of rugby and soccer reviving, I'd say when a lot of the corporate deals run out at Croker the box owners will move swiftly to the Aviva.

Hard to judge what size of stadium is adequate given capital and maintenance costs. Aviva is arguably too small then again by the same argument Croker is too large, given that the only two GAA fixtures guaranteed to fill it annually are the two All Ireland Finals, and by all accounts it can't be opened at all without losing money unless a minimum crowd of 35,000 or so is in attendance.

I think the GAA should be open to criticism for the mistakes and incompetency just as the FAI is continually

What clown told you that Croke Park can't be opened without losing money unless there is a crowd of 35,000?.  The eejit that told you that must have been drunk or else he was winding you up.

I thought it was common knowledge that unless there was a substantial 5 figure attendance,Croke Park loses money? In any event this whole debate has been brought about by the GAA petitioning soccer and rugby to continue using Croker, indicating that they covet the rental income, and Delaney politely pointing out that the GAA had ruled out any prospect of a shared national sports stadium (which is effectively what they are now seeking), back in the mid to late 90s, when the FAI and IRFU were quite willing to embrace this scenario?

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2010, 11:43:36 AM
Indiana, with the current popularity of rugby and soccer reviving, I'd say when a lot of the corporate deals run out at Croker the box owners will move swiftly to the Aviva.

Hard to judge what size of stadium is adequate given capital and maintenance costs. Aviva is arguably too small then again by the same argument Croker is too large, given that the only two GAA fixtures guaranteed to fill it annually are the two All Ireland Finals, and by all accounts it can't be opened at all without losing money unless a minimum crowd of 35,000 or so is in attendance.

I think the GAA should be open to criticism for the mistakes and incompetency just as the FAI is continually

I've spoken to a lot of rugby people on this. i follow the game myself. And they were delighted having internationals in Croker. Because they could get tickets. they are routinely pissed off now that they have no chance of getting a ticket for the Aviva with the old boys network than dominates the allocation of rugby tickets for games. It is a massive own goal building a stadium of that size especially for rugby. The D4 networks will be back in vogue and only a small enclave around Kielys will be guaranteed tickets. Because to make up the shortfall for the loss in revenue they will have to charge extotionate prices for tickets which only the aristocrats will play in a recession.

The breakeven point in Croker is 35,000 for people's info. Personally i'd prefer to have a stadium too big then too small where it is the national flagship stadium for a particular code. You'd struggle to attract other events to the Aviva with 50,000. Thats smaller than some of the stadiums in the Africans Nations Cup.

The Gaa shouldn't be immune to criticism I agree. But the FAI and IRFU have made a balls of this one in my opinion. I think you'll find the IRFU would be happy to ditch the FAI at this stage.

From all of this it is now obvious that developing Croke Park as the national sports stadium (as it effectively has been for the last three years) 10 or 15 years ago was the most sensible route and the GAA stopped this at the time, and Delaney is only pointing this out.

PS How many genuine fans can't get tckets for All Ireland Football or Hurling finals? This is a pain for all sports fans regardless of stadium size.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2010, 12:29:07 PM
From all of this it is now obvious that developing Croke Park as the national sports stadium (as it effectively has been for the last three years) 10 or 15 years ago was the most sensible route and the GAA stopped this at the time, and Delaney is only pointing this out.

PS How many genuine fans can't get tckets for All Ireland Football or Hurling finals? This is a pain for all sports fans regardless of stadium size.

Not true. The FAI decided they didn't to be part of a National Stadium in the late 80's and pulled out of it because they didn't nee dus. So delaney is talking crap and he knows it. He's under huge pressure because he can't sell the corporate boxes and this shows how much under pressure he is.

It is but 38,500 vs 70,000 for public tickets. I know which one I'd fancy my chances of getting a ticket for.

Sorry but the last attempt to forge a consensus for a national stadium was in the late 9s and the GAA wouldn't play ball. Delaney is only responding on this occasion to overtures from the GAA to mainatin using Croker for soccer games.

I suppose we are where we are, no doubt all three bodies will survive, but rugby and soccer internationals will for the most part bsell out at the New AQviva and the GAA will lose out in terms of the three year aqdditional revenue stream it enjoyed, and GAA followers will be the only losers in terms of increased ticket prices to compensate and inevitable development reduction

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2010, 01:44:55 PM
Sorry but the last attempt to forge a consensus for a national stadium was in the late 9s and the GAA wouldn't play ball. Delaney is only responding on this occasion to overtures from the GAA to mainatin using Croker for soccer games.

Nonsense.
As Liam Mulvihil mentioned in his (circa) 2005 annual report, in the early 90s the GAA were the only organised willing to get on board when the government proposed national stadium.

In the late 90s, the FAI were the ones who wouldn't play ball when the National Stadium project came back on the agenda. Instead pushing ahead with the doomed Arena/Eircom Park project. It took much manoeuvring and pay offs from Bertie Ahern to get them on board for the Bertie Bowl alternative.
The GAA actually indicated a luke warm willingness to play the occasional game in the proposed Abbotstown venue, even though the Croke Park redeveloped was almost done.

The GAA are not begging, they are simply pleading for an extension of a business deal.Neither were the FAI and IRFU begging when they entered into a business arrangement to hire Croke Park.

Ticket prices were inflated mostly due to the rental charge and partly due to an opportunistic ploy to increase revenue. Nowadays GAA,IRFU and FAI treat patrons as customers.

The FAI is no more competent or incompetent than the GAA and some people need to divest themselves of an irrational hatred of soccer and its governing body in Ireland

The GAA never ever envisioned the development of Croke Park as a national stadium, which was the government's plan, and half of the rednecks had to be overcome before consent was given to rent Croke Park out.

Note also it is the GAA who are now crying not the FAI or IRFU

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2010, 02:28:25 PM
The GAA never ever envisioned the development of Croke Park as a national stadium, which was the government's plan, and half of the rednecks had to be overcome before consent was given to rent Croke Park out.

Note also it is the GAA who are now crying not the FAI or IRFU

Where are the GAA crying?

You need to divest yourself of you irrational need to blame the GAA for the failings of Irish soccer.

Also, I thought the 35,000 figure was based on opening the whole of Croker, ie all sections, upper and lower decks of the stands, the hill etc etc. Goes back to policing, stewarding, catering etc etc.

When the upper decks are closed, the break even point goes down. At least that was the impression I got.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2010, 02:26:01 PM
The GAA are not begging, they are simply pleading for an extension of a business deal.Neither were the FAI and IRFU begging when they entered into a business arrangement to hire Croke Park.

Ticket prices were inflated mostly due to the rental charge and partly due to an opportunistic ploy to increase revenue. Nowadays GAA,IRFU and FAI treat patrons as customers.

The FAI is no more competent or incompetent than the GAA and some people need to divest themselves of an irrational hatred of soccer and its governing body in Ireland

You said earlier the gaa were begging, make your mind up. In relation to the ticket prices the fact that the FAI made more profit out of games in Croke Park than they did in Landsdowne surely means that it was their fault that the ticket prices went up. They would have charged the same amount no matter what the rental was to make maximum revenue.

Quote from: AZOffaly on January 17, 2010, 05:08:36 PM
Also, I thought the 35,000 figure was based on opening the whole of Croker, ie all sections, upper and lower decks of the stands, the hill etc etc. Goes back to policing, stewarding, catering etc etc.

When the upper decks are closed, the break even point goes down. At least that was the impression I got.

Think that figure of 33,000 or 35,000 was nonsense I think. If that was the minimum for opening the ground they must make huge losses for intermediate club finals etc - say €600,000 (30,000 x 20euro as only 5,000 would attend). That figure was widely used in the media but think it was totally misleading.

Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on January 17, 2010, 05:13:09 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on January 17, 2010, 05:08:36 PM
Also, I thought the 35,000 figure was based on opening the whole of Croker, ie all sections, upper and lower decks of the stands, the hill etc etc. Goes back to policing, stewarding, catering etc etc.

When the upper decks are closed, the break even point goes down. At least that was the impression I got.

Think that figure of 33,000 or 35,000 was nonsense I think. If that was the minimum for opening the ground they must make huge losses for intermediate club finals etc - say €600,000 (30,000 x 20euro as only 5,000 would attend). That figure was widely used in the media but think it was totally misleading.

Remember this discussion on the board before, and it was agreed that it was nonsense since there were too many variables, not least of which ticket prices, to have a set break even number applied to every game. At best it might have been the average figure over the course of a year.

Surely the point is that it is economic suicide that Dublin has one super state of the art stadium accommodating 82,000 and another accomodating 50,000, financiaqlly pressurising all three major sporting bodies, whereas Croke Park could have been designated as the N

National Sports Stadium, had the GAA agreed,obviating the need to redevelop Lansdowne, and resulting in relative prosperity for all three bodies, and an 82,000 ncapacity stadium filled to capacity 10 times a year.

Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on January 17, 2010, 05:13:09 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on January 17, 2010, 05:08:36 PM
Also, I thought the 35,000 figure was based on opening the whole of Croker, ie all sections, upper and lower decks of the stands, the hill etc etc. Goes back to policing, stewarding, catering etc etc.

When the upper decks are closed, the break even point goes down. At least that was the impression I got.

Think that figure of 33,000 or 35,000 was nonsense I think. If that was the minimum for opening the ground they must make huge losses for intermediate club finals etc - say €600,000 (30,000 x 20euro as only 5,000 would attend). That figure was widely used in the media but think it was totally misleading.

It is a fact not nonsense. i'd like your evidence to the contrary where its nonsense please. The running costs are nowhere near as big as you're saying. They hardly need 200 stewards for a 5,000 strong crowd. They lose money opening those for games- no question- but not as much as you think. But anything but under 35k means they lose money. But if its a 5k crowd- then the amount of people needed in the ground are next to nothing. They lose more money on matches where the crowds are from 23k-35k. Those games shouldn't be in croke park in my view.

Tony has shown his true colours today. Haven't you a soccer match you could be watching?

Look as one of the few (but growing steadily) people involved at ground roots in both soccer and football, i feel i can give a unbiased look the situation. Soccer and Rugby in Ireland by and large are AMATEUR sports in Ireland. A Trickle of both sports get re-imbursed for their exploits (mostly abroad). Most of my friend like both sports and encourage their kids to play both sports. We all take great pride when achievements such as a player making the county team, an international trial or the rare trophies that come back to our Parishes or Districts. Every now and then we get hard line people involved in one of the organisations who tries to be-little the other or will try and ruin it for the kids, for the sake of their own agenda.

In the case of the argument raised. I have to say that Both the GAA and FAI did what was right for their respective organisations at the time. Hindsight is great but you have to realise that the GAA originally took a chance letting FAI/IRFU in. Part of this deal for FAI/IRFU to have stadium built. If the GAA knew what they knew now, that they would have no bother from members then there would have been no time limit on renting of Croker. The FAI/IRFU would probably done a smaller development for Club finals etc. Everybody would be happy. Except the IRFU/FAI would be under the monopoly of the GAA for the use of Croker.

All said there is no winner.

The best thing about soccer and rugby moving out of Croke Park is that it might focus the minds of those running the gaa to try to fill the stadium more for our own games. The gaa showed last year with the Dublin Tyrone game under lights what is possible with the right advertising and it was a great night - unfortunately they haven't built on it and come up with more ways to sell our games, instead they have been happy to take easy money of the fai and irfu.

The gaa obviously don't want to reduce price's to much as it would reduce revenue which is needed to run the organisation. For a big match they might say be guarenteed 50,000 who would pay the current rates. One way of selling more seats imo would be to attract neutrals. Under the season ticket scheme why not offer at the start of the championship people the option to pay 20 or 25 euro which would allow them to gain entry to all championship matches (except all ireland finals) in hurling or football in which there own county wasn't involved. You would have to apply for whatever matches you wanted a week before or whatever but they would be free (would have to be identity check so you weren't giving tickets away or selling them). This way your promoting the scheme, rewarding loyal fans and helping to fill venues by attracting people who other wise probably wouldn't have bothered going.

That's just one initiative, I'm sure they could come up with many others like free tickets in schools or deals with the tourist board etc.

I read somewhere that London Irish had increased their gates from 4 - 5,000 to 10 - 15,000 for home games by, in part, making the games more family friendly. Face painting for the kids, hospitality tents with food and drink etc., the point was made that people want to be part of something (supporting a team) so if you make the effort you'll get the crowds. We should be doing this as a matter of priority, CP should be a promotional tool that we can utilize, not simply a stadium to host games. Are Dublin schools targeted and given free tickets for matches, with food and some entertainment thrown in? Obviously not, we need to remember that sport is an entertainment to the majority of people and if we can't get 50,000+ into certain games we need to target that audience. It's madness to allow our competitors free reign at that population while we comfort ourselves in pride of the parish nonsense.

Being a soccer and gaa fan I never gratuitously criticise either body, but wish there was more co operation between the two for the sake of irish sport. At the end of the day neither should feel threatened by the other as both are firmly established.

The GAA does some crazy things. What other sporting body could market the opening fixture in one of its major touraments to attract a full house of 82,000, yet more or less ignore the final of the same tournament  which struggles to attract a 1/3 of that crowd?

The lesson surely now of two major stadia, one two small and the other too big, should be to co operate and think strategically together and learn from each other

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2010, 09:00:50 PM
Being a soccer and gaa fan I never gratuitously criticise either body, but wish there was more co operation between the two for the sake of irish sport. At the end of the day neither should feel threatened by the other as both are firmly established.

The GAA does some crazy things. What other sporting body could market the opening fixture in one of its major touraments to attract a full house of 82,000, yet more or less ignore the final of the same tournament  which struggles to attract a 1/3 of that crowd?

The lesson surely now of two major stadia, one two small and the other too big, should be to co operate and think strategically together and learn from each other

I disagree. i'd happily do business with the IRFU. But as far as I'm concerned after the weekends comments John Delaney and the FAi can f*** off.

the real story is with out super sized croke park the knackers and the egg chasers would never have been able to afford their tiny share of the cost of rebuilding lansdowne road.
there attitude is that of  one of a tenant , build us some stadiums well sell tickets then well pay our way . they took no risk and were still able to develop their games at the same time, at the expense of thier own local clubs and competitions.
we all know the LOI is a joke but the destruction of the ail and there fore any meaning senior rugby competition in Ireland will come back to haunt the irfu.
in 10 years time there will a situation similar to soccer which is if your any good you wont be playing in ireland

Lets go back to the article

Delaney hits out at GAA's stance on Croker

John Delaney has claimed the FAI and IRFU might not have gone ahead with the Aviva Stadium development if they had known Croke Park would be available to them in the long term.
Nothing wrong with that statement

The GAA only agreed to open its doors to soccer and rugby in 2007 on a temporary basis, but the financial success of staging international games at Croke Park has seen a change in attitude in the GAA, and it is expected that a motion will passed at Congress in April which will give Central Council the power to open the stadium to other sports in the future.

Journalist commentry

But speaking after yesterday's announcement that the Republic of Ireland's glamour friendly on March 3 against Brazil will take place in Arsenal's Emirates Stadium and not Croke Park, the FAI chief executive again ruled out a return for the international soccer team to GAA headquarters for at least 10 years, stating that the GAA's initial position forced soccer and rugby chiefs to redevelop Lansdowne Road and sign long-term contracts with sponsors and suppliers.

Journalist commentry

"Had it been made clear going in that Croke Park would remain open in the longer term, I think that discussion could have taken place," the Waterford native said.

Same as first comment so there is nothing of malice there

"But it was made clear to both Philip Browne (IRFU CEO) and myself when we attended the first meetings that Croke Park was not going to become available to us in the longer haul."

Noting there we have not heard before.

So where in all of this does Delaney give a parting shot? Where is the ungratefulness?

By the way where was this piece sourced?

Emirates confirmed for Brazil friendly

from Ireland.com

http://www.ireland.com/home/Emirates_confirmed_Brazil_friendly/maxi/fast/news/irnews/246407


Soccer: The FAI today confirmed the Republic of Ireland will play Brazil in a friendly at Arsenal's Emirates Stadium on Tuesday, March 2nd, subject to final approval from the English FA.

Kentaro, the international sports promoter involved with the fixture, announced the Emirates as the venue for the friendly. Kentaro are expected to announce kick-off time and ticket details next week.

Kentaro, who have staged a number of Brazil matches at the north London venue previously, including matches against Italy, Argentina and Portugal, had been in talks with Arsenal football club for some time while the FAI had been negotiating with the GAA.

Croke Park had been interested in staging the game, and stadium director Peter McKenna expressed his regret that the match was being taken abroad yesterday, but the final decision was Kentaro's to make.

"I would love for the game to be at Croke Park in Dublin," explained FAI chief executive John Delaney. "But Kentaro have the European rights for Brazil . . . we've been invited to play the game but had no input into where the game was staged.

"It would have been nice to play the game in Croke Park, it would probably have been our last game in Croke Park, but it's not to be."

Exactly, Delaney was only presenting facts, but the rednecks on here who can't stand soccer and see it as a threat, interpret any thing Delaney says as an insult.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 18, 2010, 10:40:24 AM
Exactly, Delaney was only presenting facts, but the rednecks on here who can't stand soccer and see it as a threat, interpret any thing Delaney says as an insult.

So by that token will an obviously illiterate individual like yourself accept that the FAI refused to get involved in a National Stadium in the late 80's when asked to do so by the other sporting bodies because they felt they didn't need us? And thats its entirely hypocritical of Delaney to suggest that somehow the Gaa put  a roadblock in place to the provisions of a National Stadium. Just on behalf of us rednecks.

Delaney is essentially a 2nd hand car salesman. And a bad one at that. Even soccer people will tell you that Tony. Its amazing not one of my soccer friends have a good word to say about him. And these are people who deal with him directly. And I'll bet any money off the record the IRFU will tell you the same.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 18, 2010, 10:40:24 AM
Exactly, Delaney was only presenting facts, but the rednecks on here who can't stand soccer and see it as a threat, interpret any thing Delaney says as an insult.

Only when he's being a p***k.

Quote from: From the Bunker on January 18, 2010, 01:13:40 AM
Lets go back to the article

That's not fair. You can't just pass through the sensational newspaper headline as if it were invisible, read and comprehend the article,  then separate the actual quotes from the surmises and accurately conclude that there is no parting shot never mind ungratefulness from Delaney.
Think of all those all those who jump into the thread blindfold, blowing hot air.

Indiana you are being disingenuous to suggest that the GAA ever consented to sharing their facilities with soccer. FFS back in 1991 they wouldn't even countenance letting Dublin and Down play a challenge game at the RDS because soccer was on the menu as well.

The GAA is to blame totally here. If they had consented to allowing Croke Park to become the national sports stadium 10 years ago there would have been no need to redevelop Lansdowne, and sure the vote was only carried to rent out to soccer and rugby on the basis of a strictly time limited deal.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 18, 2010, 09:30:08 PM
Indiana you are being disingenuous to suggest that the GAA ever consented to sharing their facilities with soccer. FFS back in 1991 they wouldn't even countenance letting Dublin and Down play a challenge game at the RDS because soccer was on the menu as well.

The GAA is to blame totally here. If they had consented to allowing Croke Park to become the national sports stadium 10 years ago there would have been no need to redevelop Lansdowne, and sure the vote was only carried to rent out to soccer and rugby on the basis of a strictly time limited deal.

What exactly are they to blame for? Having the vision to build the best stadium in the country despite not having an international dimension and the finacial benefits. Managing the stadium in such a way that the debt is almost cleared and well ahead of schedule (and this was happening before the stadium was opened to soccer and rugby). I can understand why soccer and rugby would want a national stadium but the gaa has and will manage just fine without one.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 18, 2010, 09:30:08 PM
The GAA is to blame totally here. If they had consented to allowing Croke Park to become the national sports stadium 10 years ago there would have been no need to redevelop Lansdowne, and sure the vote was only carried to rent out to soccer and rugby on the basis of a strictly time limited deal.

Look at it from the GAA's point of view, rather than a jack of all sports view.
Where is the benefit for the GAA in building stadia and facilities for other organisations?
The GAA is a lot of things, but it isn't a charity.

The FAI have for a long time held a desire to have their own stadium, going back to Eircom Park (which you seem to be conveniently ignoring). A couple of years Delaney himself stated that the FAI needed a national stadium of its own.
This latest ball hopping effort by Delaney is to take the heat off the FAI for selling the Brazilian friendly to the highest bidder.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 18, 2010, 09:30:08 PM
Indiana you are being disingenuous to suggest that the GAA ever consented to sharing their facilities with soccer.

Sorry to blow your agenda out of the water, but it is on the record that the GAA were the only sporting organisation willing to get involved in a National Stadium project at the start of the 90s.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 18, 2010, 11:05:23 PM
The GAA is a lot of things, but it isn't a charity.

And therein lies the problem. A lot of these soccer eejits within the FAI and fans (Tony included) think that the GAA is and that have an automatic right to get into Croke Park.

Well once the gates closed, I for one will be wanting to keep it closed.

Quote from: ziggysego on January 18, 2010, 11:23:35 PM

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 18, 2010, 11:05:23 PM
The GAA is a lot of things, but it isn't a charity.

And therein lies the problem. A lot of these soccer eejits within the FAI and fans (Tony included) think that the GAA is and that have an automatic right to get into Croke Park.

That does seem to be the default position of soccer people at all levels from officials all the way up to supporters.

remeber Eircom park every one . back then the fai they wanted their own Stadium with no regard to what the GAA or irfu for that matter did or said .
it blew up mainly because they would not tell their own reasurer, Brendan Menton the truth about the project and it seems this mendacity continues in relation to the 10 year tickets. no one can get a stright answer.
Rember they wanted it built quickly so ireland could stage euro 08 and to make the sums add up the were going to stage 57 events a year. these are not people you want to be doing financial deals with

Quote from: ziggysego on January 18, 2010, 11:23:35 PM

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 18, 2010, 11:05:23 PM
The GAA is a lot of things, but it isn't a charity.

And therein lies the problem. A lot of these soccer eejits within the FAI and fans (Tony included) think that the GAA is and that have an automatic right to get into Croke Park.

Well once the gates closed, I for one will be wanting to keep it closed.

Please refer to one quote  from the FAI where they state that they should have an automatic right to use Croke Park, since the time the FAI were mulling over stadium projects.
Or is this yet another -  I believe the FAI have this opinion so therefore they have?

Afair, the FAI/IRFU negotiations (as they were reported in the media) with the GAA, were carried out with appropriate respect towards the GAA tradition and the GAA constitution.
Once the GAA agreed to give the green light then it became a mutual business relationship that all parties agree to abide by and richly benefit from.
Years ago when the negotiations commenced, Delaney would not have expected Croke Park to be made available to the FAI for a game such as the Brazil international.

Afaiu, the soccer fans are looking forward to the new Lansdowne Rd.
As to being glad the Croke Park gates will be shut according to the rules, that will also be a case of the vast majority respecting the wishes of the minority.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 18, 2010, 09:30:08 PM
Indiana you are being disingenuous to suggest that the GAA ever consented to sharing their facilities with soccer. FFS back in 1991 they wouldn't even countenance letting Dublin and Down play a challenge game at the RDS because soccer was on the menu as well.

In fairness Tony, the joint venture suggestion between the Govt, FAI, IRFU & GAA is a matter of public record.

Peter Quinn has frequently mentioned it in the past.

I have no axe to grind with the FAI and have no particular first hand knowledge of Delaney, but I anyone I know involved in Irish soccer - from Saturday league pub teams, to FAI committee level has never had a good word to say about him..

Quote from: Main Street on January 19, 2010, 02:23:03 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on January 18, 2010, 11:23:35 PM

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 18, 2010, 11:05:23 PM
The GAA is a lot of things, but it isn't a charity.

And therein lies the problem. A lot of these soccer eejits within the FAI and fans (Tony included) think that the GAA is and that have an automatic right to get into Croke Park.

Well once the gates closed, I for one will be wanting to keep it closed.

Please refer to one quote  from the FAI where they state that they should have an automatic right to use Croke Park, since the time the FAI were mulling over stadium projects.
Or is this yet another -  I believe the FAI have this opinion so therefore they have?

Afair, the FAI/IRFU negotiations (as they were reported in the media) with the GAA, were carried out with appropriate respect towards the GAA tradition and the GAA constitution.
Once the GAA agreed to give the green light then it became a mutual business relationship that all parties agree to abide by and richly benefit from.
Years ago when the negotiations commenced, Delaney would not have expected Croke Park to be made available to the FAI for a game such as the Brazil international.

Afaiu, the soccer fans are looking forward to the new Lansdowne Rd.
As to being glad the Croke Park gates will be shut according to the rules, that will also be a case of the vast majority respecting the wishes of the minority.

I think you're right about the IRFU, MS, but definitely not the FAI or the soccer community. They have been grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful and acted like a crowd of knackers (I used the word deliberately earlier) that you let into your field and who proceed to treat the place as if they owned it, complain about it and wonder out loud about why it took you so long to let them in in the first place.

It's nothing that's written in the official contracts - it's just the attitude that comes across from the soccer community and it's totally at variance with that of the rugby people I talk to.

One simple example - Ronnie Whelan on RTÉ saying (I paraphrase) "they were always going to have to give in and let us in eventually".

I was always in favour of opening up, purely for practical purposes - we can use the money - but that attitude would test your conviction that it was worth it.

Delaney embarassed our country with his whinging after the Henry incident . He has some cheektaking a cheap shot like that at the GAA. If he was unhappy with the original agreement, why di d the simpleton agree to it? Also, the GAA may have received 1.3m per game or whatever but the FAI sold an extra 30000 seats for France, Italy games and consequently they were quids in as well.

Of course as soon as the FAI got a lend of the keys they renamed Hill 16 as the "North End". I have a classic email from them when I emailed in a complaint saying this was for "logistical" reasons.

Delaney is a clown and this is all a deflection attempt to cover the embarrassment of poor advance ticket sales on Aviva Stadium and the financial joke that is the League of Ireland.

There was more at the recent O'Byrne Cup clash between Longford and Meath (2,000) than at most LOI games.

Lads, Lads, Lads.......we have had a great couple of years. Soccer got the use of a HOME stadium for Matches. They made decent revenue from the extra seats. The GAA made extra revenue also. To see organisations as a threat is worring. If everybody played GAA alone we would never have had a Brian O'Driscoll, Paul McGrath, Eamon Coughlan, Ken Doherty, Barry McGuigan, Stephen Roche etc. Variety is the spice of life. True the FAI and IRFU have their faults, so do the GAA. To err is human. As a Soccer and Football fan i took great pride in both organisations working together for over this period. It is regretful that due to circumstances beyond both organisations this could not continue. 

This thread is perfectly summed up by the fact that the first 5 pages constantly had a go at the FAI and Delaney (a bit of a spanner in fairness) for not holding the Brazil game in croker when it was offered. These people hadn't the cop on or understanding to realise that this game was not an FAI game but basically a third party running the show with the FAI just been one of the teams involved.

Delaney was only commenting on the current situation, nothing too ungrateful in what he said and has always praised the GAA for croke park and use of it.

A nothing story but hey, why miss out on a cheap shot at the evil FAI.  ::)

Just to be clear: I certainly don't see the FAI as a threat. I don't think of other sports in competitive terms really. But if I did, I would be delighted with the FAI. I don't think we could chose more ludicrous competitors if we got to design them ourselves.

Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 05:54:50 PM
Just to be clear: I certainly don't see the FAI as a threat. I don't think of other sports in competitive terms really. But if I did, I would be delighted with the FAI. I don't think we could chose more ludicrous competitors if we got to design them ourselves.

But, both Soccer and Rugby are threats, just look at the figures, more and more clubs springing up in the most unlikliest of places. You are looking from the top but at roots level things are alot different.

Quote from: From the Bunker on January 19, 2010, 06:05:07 PM

Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 05:54:50 PM
Just to be clear: I certainly don't see the FAI as a threat. I don't think of other sports in competitive terms really. But if I did, I would be delighted with the FAI. I don't think we could chose more ludicrous competitors if we got to design them ourselves.

But, both Soccer and Rugby are threats, just look at the figures, more and more clubs springing up in the most unlikliest of places. You are looking from the top but at roots level things are alot different.

Throw a bag of balls over your shoulder and you have a soccer club but where are all these new rugby clubs coming from, there are less rugby clubs in Leinster now than there was 20 years ago.

As far as I'm concerned, the more kids playing sport of any kind the better. I don't see it as a competition for playing members. There's enough room for all sports and the best thing we can do to make sure we always have enough players to keep the games strong is to make the GAA experience as good as it can be for kids. The important thing is to get them away from the TVs and Nintendoes and, when they get a bit older, booze, fags and chemicals of whatever kind. .

Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 06:12:49 PM
As far as I'm concerned, the more kids playing sport of any kind the better. I don't see it as a competition for playing members. There's enough room for all sports and the best thing we can do to make sure we always have enough players to keep the games strong is to make the GAA experience as good as it can be for kids. The important thing is to get them away from the TVs and Nintendoes and, when they get a bit older, booze, fags and chemicals of whatever kind. .

Agreed :)

for the record the FAI and its fans are not knackers. They paid over the odds for facilities grudingly hired by the GAA and have had to listen to insults and abuse for decades from GAA sources and have with dignity not responded in kind.

It is the GAA who are making the running now begging both the IRFU and the FAI to continue using Croker.Mr Delaney is only pointing out that had this option been available ten years ago they would never have gone ahead with the Lansdowne development.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 08:19:51 PM
for the record the FAI and its fans are not knackers. They paid over the odds for facilities grudingly hired by the GAA and have had to listen to insults and abuse for decades from GAA sources and have with dignity not responded in kind.

It is the GAA who are making the running now begging both the IRFU and the FAI to continue using Croker.Mr Delaney is only pointing out that had this option been available ten years ago they would never have gone ahead with the Lansdowne development.

As per the article posted earlier, the FAI paid 26% of gate receipts in rent as opposed to the 19%-22% average in other countries. No one forced them to play in Croke Park, they would have had plenty of other takers from British soccer stadiums.
Using Croke Park allowed them to hike up prices and make their biggest windfall in history on gate receipts.

If a person had his foot in either camp would that make him a kn**ker when he was involved in FAI matters and a Saint when with his GAA counterparts? I have a brother at home in Clare who manages a U12 soccer team but also plays hurling himself.I would imagine there is hundreds if not thousands of people and fellow Gaa members who are like him though I'll let him know his fellow Gaels consider him to be a kn**ker when he is training the kids.....
Some very small minded people around here

Dakota, I've no problem with soccer. I've friends and family involved in it. It's the begging bowl element to some of them I dislike. The world owes them a living and it's their right to it. Whether it be the rugby in Lansdowne Road or the GAA in Croke Park.

Hows about soccer do something themselves. They're supposed to be a professional sporting organisation.

Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 03:11:46 PM
I think you're right about the IRFU, MS, but definitely not the FAI or the soccer community. They have been grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful and acted like a crowd of knackers (I used the word deliberately earlier) that you let into your field and who proceed to treat the place as if they owned it, complain about it and wonder out loud about why it took you so long to let them in in the first place.

It's nothing that's written in the official contracts - it's just the attitude that comes across from the soccer community and it's totally at variance with that of the rugby people I talk to.

One simple example - Ronnie Whelan on RTÉ saying (I paraphrase) "they were always going to have to give in and let us in eventually".

I was always in favour of opening up, purely for practical purposes - we can use the money - but that attitude would test your conviction that it was worth it.

That was pretty much my own experience.
The rugby people I know seemed appreciative of the dig out, impressed with the stadium and possibly had their middle class sensibilities a little bit dented at ending up homeless.

The soccer people were a different kettle of trout. The attitude always seemed to be - Croke Park is shite, the pitch is terrible, the terracing is stupid, Anfield/Old Trafford/The Emirates is miles better. Sure our money built it anyway. I hate having to give money to the gah etc. Befitting of the self-entitled, handout culture they seem to exist in.

Huge generalization there BordnaMonaman if you don't mind me saying

Quote from: Dakota on January 19, 2010, 09:32:13 PM
Huge generalization there BordnaMonaman if you don't mind me saying

There were own experiences only, so there is no generalisation.

Fair enough if you say so, I feel you are  exaggerating a little though, which no doubt you will deny

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 08:19:51 PM

It is the GAA who are making the running now begging both the IRFU and the FAI to continue using Croker.Mr Delaney is only pointing out that had this option been available ten years ago they would never have gone ahead with the Lansdowne development.

Bullshit statement for a start. What's going to happen is:

*Very soon Ireland are going to draw England or another big nation in Qualifiers.
*What happens then is that people will want to know why Croke Park is not being used to host the match because it can hold far more people.
*Knowing that the FAI cannot break their contract with the Aviva Stadium they will still shift the blame on the GAA saying that the GAA won't let them use it anyway
*Once again the GAA are the bad guys

What the GAA are doing is actually very smart. It's not about wanting to host more games. It's about keeping it open so that them moaney b******'s in the FAI don't go blaming the GAA because they haven't the capacity to host a major sporting event.

complete and utter cobblers.

The FAI always acknowledged the assistance of the GAA in match programmes etc and I never heard a soccer fan complain about Croker or the GAA.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 10:12:51 PM
complete and utter cobblers.

The FAI always acknowledged the assistance of the GAA in match programmes etc and I never heard a soccer fan complain about Croker or the GAA.

I remember the first thing the FAI did when they got into Croke Park. They complained about the state of the pitch.

Quote from: ziggysego on January 19, 2010, 10:18:03 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 10:12:51 PM
complete and utter cobblers.

The FAI always acknowledged the assistance of the GAA in match programmes etc and I never heard a soccer fan complain about Croker or the GAA.

I remember the first thing the FAI did when they got into Croke Park. They complained about the state of the pitch.

If you rent a house and the floors are dirty when you move in would you complain? Especially if it's costing you over a million to rent?

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 10:12:51 PM
complete and utter cobblers.

The FAI always acknowledged the assistance of the GAA in match programmes etc and I never heard a soccer fan complain about Croker or the GAA.

I would expect nothing less. It is only right that you would thank someone for their help. The point I was trying to make concerned what happens when Lansdown Road is finished. You were the one who said that the Croke Park are begging the Soccer and Rugby to keep on using them. I replied by saying that there will be trouble when there's big demand for tickets and their ground only holds 50,000. That's when the tabloids will start calling for Croke Park to be opened for it. Everyone know's that the contract for Lansdown can't be broken but you can be sure the blame would be placed firmly at the GAA's door if they didn't keep it open.

Soccer fans do indeed knock the GAA and call them the Grab All Association and have a right laugh so you must not be talking to too many of them

Can you not be a fan of both?

Quote from: Dakota on January 19, 2010, 10:33:38 PM
Can you not be a fan of both?

You can be a fan of both. I was really disappointed with the Henry incident but I'm a GAA man first and foremost and I didn't like the comment that the GAA are going begging the FAI and IRFU to keep on using Croker

Quote from: Dakota on January 19, 2010, 10:31:54 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on January 19, 2010, 10:18:03 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 10:12:51 PM
complete and utter cobblers.

The FAI always acknowledged the assistance of the GAA in match programmes etc and I never heard a soccer fan complain about Croker or the GAA.

I remember the first thing the FAI did when they got into Croke Park. They complained about the state of the pitch.

If you rent a house and the floors are dirty when you move in would you complain? Especially if it's costing you over a million to rent?

There was nothing wrong with the pitch then and the rugby ones were very gracious when they came. None of this rubbish.

I think perhaps the complaint was from the manager and akin to something like its not what soccer players are used to.

As a paying supporter (ie GAA Season ticket holder and FAI Block Booker) I enjoy and am loyal to both codes but I think neither the gaa nor the FAI should be above criticism. They both make howlers but are both largely successful so they do a hell of a lot more thats right.

Thankfully criticism of the FAI from GAA sources is now reduced to the few neanderthals who are typical of some of the posters on this thread. It is a welcome by product of soccer at Croker that barriers have been broken down and a new maturity exists. If the present GAA officialdom had been in charge in 1996/97 I have no doubt Croker would have become a national sports stadium and there would have been no redevlopment at Lansdowne.

I think when alls said and done and the chips are down, one has only to examine the pitiful attendance at the start of the Ulster semi final between Donegal and Derry in 2002 which just happened to overlap with the crucial Ireland V Spain World Cup tie. On that day I think we got a glimpse of where the average irish sports fan priotises his allegiance these days.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 11:36:58 PM
I think perhaps the complaint was from the manager and akin to something like its not what soccer players are used to.

As a paying supporter (ie GAA Season ticket holder and FAI Block Booker) I enjoy and am loyal to both codes but I think neither the gaa nor the FAI should be above criticism. They both make howlers but are both largely successful so they do a hell of a lot more thats right.

Thankfully criticism of the FAI from GAA sources is now reduced to the few neanderthals who are typical of some of the posters on this thread. It is a welcome by product of soccer at Croker that barriers have been broken down and a new maturity exists. If the present GAA officialdom had been in charge in 1996/97 I have no doubt Croker would have become a national sports stadium and there would have been no redevlopment at Lansdowne.

I think when alls said and done and the chips are down, one has only to examine the pitiful attendance at the start of the Ulster semi final between Donegal and Derry in 2002 which just happened to overlap with the crucial Ireland V Spain World Cup tie. On that day I think we got a glimpse of where the average irish sports fan priotises his allegiance these days.

Bit of an extreme example, Ireland has only been to 4 tournaments ever and the buckin things are on every 2 years, and it was a knockout match.  The attendance picked up after the penos and was a lot higher than you'd ever see for a soccer game apart from an international.

and thry krpt thsnking them till the thought they didnt need Croke park any more and then delany started blaaaming the GAA for making them build a pitch.
eaten bread is soon forgotten
Rule 1 in how to act like a kn**ker

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 11:36:58 PM
I think perhaps the complaint was from the manager and akin to something like its not what soccer players are used to.

As a paying supporter (ie GAA Season ticket holder and FAI Block Booker) I enjoy and am loyal to both codes but I think neither the gaa nor the FAI should be above criticism. They both make howlers but are both largely successful so they do a hell of a lot more thats right.

Thankfully criticism of the FAI from GAA sources is now reduced to the few neanderthals who are typical of some of the posters on this thread. It is a welcome by product of soccer at Croker that barriers have been broken down and a new maturity exists. If the present GAA officialdom had been in charge in 1996/97 I have no doubt Croker would have become a national sports stadium and there would have been no redevlopment at Lansdowne.

I think when alls said and done and the chips are down, one has only to examine the pitiful attendance at the start of the Ulster semi final between Donegal and Derry in 2002 which just happened to overlap with the crucial Ireland V Spain World Cup tie. On that day I think we got a glimpse of where the average irish sports fan priotises his allegiance these days.

I marvel at such "scholars" as yourself Tony who continually fail to acknowledge the facts of the situation that it was the FAi who refused any avenue of a National Stadium being pursued. Until such time as you produce concrete evidence as to the GAA's reluctance in such an arrangement the rest of us will simply scoff at level of bullshit you go on with -like the post above. We have our evidence- you unfortunately have none. Except idle speculation based on the meanderings of John Delaney who can't sell his corporate boxes to fund his half of the bargain with the Aviva Stadium. What a laugh for an alleged professional organisation.

By the way i support the irish soccer team and have travelled abroad to watch them. But the FAI are the Fianna Fail equivalent of a sporting organisation. An ignorant boorish organisation which has delusions of grandeur and run by incompetents who have sucked the well dry over the years. Any you're asking us to take anything John Delaney says seriously
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The underlying issue is that majority of Irish sports fans have no particularly strong allegiance to any sporting organisation over another, as Tony described. Their main kick is the big days out they get from soccer, GAA, rugby etc.

The issue of how stadiums are funded, who builds them is a moot point to the average fan. The problem with the Croke Park usage debate was that it very often boiled down to a huge amount of sports fans simply wanting to enjoy their big day out soccer experiences in a big modern stadium - rather than any concept of what was in the GAA's best interests.
Even if the FAI never coughed up a penny to the construction and the GAA raised 300 million, there was still the concept of shared entitlement to the ground,

Look at how the GAA gets lectured from all angles that it should act in the "national interest" and how it would have been a national embarrassment if Irish teams played abroad (ironic given where the Brazil fixture will be played). Its as if the GAA is some sort of publicly owned utility there to serve the whims of the citizenry.

Tony complaining that the GAA should have gone out of its way to the save the FAI, IRFU and the taxpayer millions by building them a "National Stadium" takes the biscuit entirely.  :D
By that logic, Arsenal should be the good neighbour and save Spurs having to spend millions on a stadium upgrade by handing them the keys to the Emirates.

It was my understanding that if the GAA had consented to Croke Park becoming a national sports stadium, they would have provided a major portion of the funding as indeed would the IRFU and FAI.

Also central to the Croke Park usage debate was the economic factor, and the amount of money that would be lost to the Dublin and indeed Irish economy in general if the soccer and rugby international home games had to be moved to the UK.

If you wish to examine laughable anomalies you only have to look at the Ulster GAA counties who opposed opening Croke Park but are happy to accept grants for development funded largely by Rugby and soccer followers money

Tony calm it my old son, i think you have made ur point as you wanted too. You are intitled to ur opinion at all times but so are others and who is right or wrong is a matter of opinion again.

I am not losing it. I have indeed made my point, supported as usual by lucid, logical and irrefutable arguments, and happy to leave it at that. ;D

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 10:12:51 PM
complete and utter cobblers.

The FAI always acknowledged the assistance of the GAA in match programmes etc and I never heard a soccer fan complain about Croker or the GAA.

Utter nonsense. A cursory glance at foot.ie whenever the GAA are discussed would correct your mis-apprehension.

Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on January 20, 2010, 11:08:20 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 10:12:51 PM
complete and utter cobblers.

The FAI always acknowledged the assistance of the GAA in match programmes etc and I never heard a soccer fan complain about Croker or the GAA.

Utter nonsense. A cursory glance at foot.ie whenever the GAA are discussed would correct your mis-apprehension.

In fairness TAM, if they where having the same discussion over there about a GAA matter and someone said they'd never heard a GAA fan complain about soccer, it would be very easy to reference this website to correct the statement.

Also, the Rugby people  have just been as critical as the soccer people of Croke park - lack of atmosphere, demensions not right, hard for kickers, can't wait for new landsdowne etc - have all been discussed on the tv and in papers. They have been appreciative as well but to say they've been devoid of criticism, unlike the soccer crowd, is just misstating facts to suit an argument.

All in all soccer and rugby at Croker has been of benefit to the GAA and not just financially. It has undoubtedly raised the awareness of the GAA among people who had previously no connections with it, and probably vice versa as well.

I think that all three major sports have demonstrated that they can work together and hopefully this new relationship will blossom and who knows they might even learn from and enrich each other.

In 2008 in the premium section at Croker prior to a Leinser Championship game, I saw a famous former Irish internatonal soccer  goalkeeper who knows a thing about saving penalties having a pint and a laugh with a former Dublin midfield great. I suspect there's the same huge degree of respect between all the practitoners of the three sports at the highest level.

Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 03:11:46 PM

I think you're right about the IRFU, MS, but definitely not the FAI or the soccer community. They have been grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful and acted like a crowd of knackers (I used the word deliberately earlier) that you let into your field and who proceed to treat the place as if they owned it, complain about it and wonder out loud about why it took you so long to let them in in the first place.

It's nothing that's written in the official contracts - it's just the attitude that comes across from the soccer community and it's totally at variance with that of the rugby people I talk to.

One simple example - Ronnie Whelan on RTÉ saying (I paraphrase) "they were always going to have to give in and let us in eventually".

I was always in favour of opening up, purely for practical purposes - we can use the money - but that attitude would test your conviction that it was worth it.

I have neither seen nor heard nothing, reported or quoted  (or even interpreted with a degree of rationality) to support any one of these contentions that the FAI have been grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful and acted like a crowd of knackers.
Please if it is possible take me out of my ignorance and refer to accurately reported speech from the mouth of Delaney anywhere in the WWW in the last 4 years

Quote from: T Fearon on January 20, 2010, 10:01:05 AM
I am not losing it. I have indeed made my point, supported as usual by lucid, logical and irrefutable arguments, and happy to leave it at that. ;D

All based on groundless evidence You don't work for Fianna Fail do you?

Quote from: T Fearon on January 20, 2010, 01:07:22 PM
All in all soccer and rugby at Croker has been of benefit to the GAA and not just financially. It has undoubtedly raised the awareness of the GAA among people who had previously no connections with it, and probably vice versa as well.

I think that all three major sports have demonstrated that they can work together and hopefully this new relationship will blossom and who knows they might even learn from and enrich each other.

In 2008 in the premium section at Croker prior to a Leinser Championship game, I saw a famous former Irish internatonal soccer  goalkeeper who knows a thing about saving penalties having a pint and a laugh with a former Dublin midfield great. I suspect there's the same huge degree of respect between all the practitoners of the three sports at the highest level.

As much as I've disagreed with you in the rest of the thread, that's true enough. Mind you, I think you've slightly romancised it a bit.

Still glad to see Rule 42 back ;)

Quote from: ziggysego on January 19, 2010, 10:18:03 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 10:12:51 PM
complete and utter cobblers.

The FAI always acknowledged the assistance of the GAA in match programmes etc and I never heard a soccer fan complain about Croker or the GAA.

I remember the first thing the FAI did when they got into Croke Park. They complained about the state of the pitch.

The usual thing to substantiate a claim and refresh your memory is give a link. 

Are you referring to the refusal of the GAA to allow the soccer team to train before the game against Wales?

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2006/12/14/story20752.asp (http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2006/12/14/story20752.asp)

December 14, 2006
Delaney
"The GAA deserve a lot of credit for the Rule 42 change. I understand the sensitivities involved. With that in mind, we ensured the San Marino game was at home in November and not at home in February because from my perspective it was a better idea if the IRFU played the first games in there. I also said that it would be preferable if an IRFU training session took place there before a soccer one.

"But I've got to say that on an operational level, and when I meet with Nicky Brennan and Liam Mulvihill, relations are very cordial and very professional.

"For obvious reasons the GAA pointed out that they couldn't accommodate us on February 5 — they have a rugby game the following weekend and Dublin play Tyrone there on February 3. That's the explanation that was given and I have to accept it.

"Of course every manager would love to have more training sessions. But I'm very happy with how we're progressing with the GAA, particularly in terms of the negotiations around 2008."

I can only see examples of the FAI's gratitude and respect, as far as the GAA is concerned,and this was alluded to in every match programme.

In any event I think the sensible sane supporters of all three codes are grateful for the last three years

Quote from: Main Street on January 20, 2010, 01:41:56 PM

Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 03:11:46 PM

I think you're right about the IRFU, MS, but definitely not the FAI or the soccer community. They have been grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful and acted like a crowd of knackers (I used the word deliberately earlier) that you let into your field and who proceed to treat the place as if they owned it, complain about it and wonder out loud about why it took you so long to let them in in the first place.

It's nothing that's written in the official contracts - it's just the attitude that comes across from the soccer community and it's totally at variance with that of the rugby people I talk to.

One simple example - Ronnie Whelan on RTÉ saying (I paraphrase) "they were always going to have to give in and let us in eventually".

I was always in favour of opening up, purely for practical purposes - we can use the money - but that attitude would test your conviction that it was worth it.

I have neither seen nor heard nothing, reported or quoted  (or even interpreted with a degree of rationality) to support any one of these contentions that the FAI have been grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful and acted like a crowd of knackers.
Please if it is possible take me out of my ignorance and refer to accurately reported speech from the mouth of Delaney anywhere in the WWW in the last 4 years

Just for the record and for the sake of whattaboutery, an FAI official was quoted in the press referring to Croke Park a "monument to bigotry" 3 or 4 years ago.
Not that one official should be interpreted as the voice for all, this fella's mistake was not being cute enough to keep his mouth shut.
The notion being peddled here of unanimous appreciation is far fetched.

Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on January 20, 2010, 11:08:20 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2010, 10:12:51 PM
complete and utter cobblers.

The FAI always acknowledged the assistance of the GAA in match programmes etc and I never heard a soccer fan complain about Croker or the GAA.

Utter nonsense. A cursory glance at foot.ie whenever the GAA are discussed would correct your mis-apprehension.

Mentioning the GAA on soccer forums like foot.ie is like discussing the merits of African-American rap artists on a KKK forum!

No one is arguing that there are not those among the soccer fraternity who have an irrational hatred for the GAA and vice versa as this thread proves.

But hopefully the number of neanderthals on both sides has reduced substantially as a result of the last three years

Quote from: T Fearon on January 20, 2010, 01:07:22 PM
In 2008 in the premium section at Croker prior to a Leinser Championship game, I saw a famous former Irish internatonal soccer  goalkeeper who knows a thing about saving penalties having a pint and a laugh with a former Dublin midfield great. I suspect there's the same huge degree of respect between all the practitoners of the three sports at the highest level.

no big deal tone - same man played midfield for donegal at minor and I think u21 if not senior level in league/challenge game.
He was giving us a tour of Celtic park and I asked him with a laugh if he regretted leaving Gaelic football - he smiled and said he did miss football a bit !!

Quote from: ziggysego on January 18, 2010, 11:23:35 PM
]

And therein lies the problem. A lot of these soccer eejits within the FAI and fans (Tony included) think that the GAA is and that have an automatic right to get into Croke Park.

Well once the gates closed, I for one will be wanting to keep it closed.

Thats ridicilious. The background here is the GAA approaching the FAI to try and have a Brazil home game played in Croke Park.

And now we have people who were opposed to soccer being in Croker in the first place giving the FAI dogs for not having even more there. Its surreal.

Quote from: dublinfella on January 21, 2010, 01:21:38 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on January 18, 2010, 11:23:35 PM
]

And therein lies the problem. A lot of these soccer eejits within the FAI and fans (Tony included) think that the GAA is and that have an automatic right to get into Croke Park.

Well once the gates closed, I for one will be wanting to keep it closed.

Thats ridicilious. The background here is the GAA approaching the FAI to try and have a Brazil home game played in Croke Park.

And now we have people who were opposed to soccer being in Croker in the first place giving the FAI dogs for not having even more there. Its surreal.

Not often it happens dublinfella, but I agree with you.

Quote from: dublinfella on January 21, 2010, 01:21:38 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on January 18, 2010, 11:23:35 PM
]

And therein lies the problem. A lot of these soccer eejits within the FAI and fans (Tony included) think that the GAA is and that have an automatic right to get into Croke Park.

Well once the gates closed, I for one will be wanting to keep it closed.

Thats ridicilious. The background here is the GAA approaching the FAI to try and have a Brazil home game played in Croke Park.

And now we have people who were opposed to soccer being in Croker in the first place giving the FAI dogs for not having even more there. Its surreal.

I'm happy Brazil aren't coming into Croke Park, never wanted Rule 42 done away with anything. However I accepted the decision once it was made.

It's more the attitude of Delaney and the FAI that's getting my goat up now.

Quote from: ziggysego on January 21, 2010, 03:46:10 PM

I'm happy Brazil aren't coming into Croke Park, never wanted Rule 42 done away with anything. However I accepted the decision once it was made.

It's more the attitude of Delaney and the FAI that's getting my goat up now.

What attitude? This is the most contrived offence I have seen in a long time.

Delaney said that if the current situation of Croker being available long term to the FAI as it currently is the situation was the state of play at the start of the LR project, it would have been a factor to take into consideration in whether the FAI got involved or not.

What exactly is wrong with that statement?

Fearon hit the nail on the head with one of his posts - people will find absolutely any excuse to have a go at the FAI as being chancers regardless of the situation. And in this situation we have the quite frankly embarrassing spectacle of the GAA offering the wrong people use of Croke Park because they need the revenue the FAI used to bring them.

We are all very sorry if you were embarrassed dublinfella.

Quote from: Onlooker on January 21, 2010, 04:22:10 PM
We are all very sorry if you were embarrassed dublinfella.

I'm embarrassed for some of the posters on this thread as well.

They should ring Joe Duffy - they would fit right in with the auld wans there.

Quote from: dublinfella on January 21, 2010, 03:57:08 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on January 21, 2010, 03:46:10 PM

I'm happy Brazil aren't coming into Croke Park, never wanted Rule 42 done away with anything. However I accepted the decision once it was made.

It's more the attitude of Delaney and the FAI that's getting my goat up now.

What attitude? This is the most contrived offence I have seen in a long time.

Delaney said that if the current situation of Croker being available long term to the FAI as it currently is the situation was the state of play at the start of the LR project, it would have been a factor to take into consideration in whether the FAI got involved or not.

What exactly is wrong with that statement?

Fearon hit the nail on the head with one of his posts - people will find absolutely any excuse to have a go at the FAI as being chancers regardless of the situation. And in this situation we have the quite frankly embarrassing spectacle of the GAA offering the wrong people use of Croke Park because they need the revenue the FAI used to bring them.

Well said

The GAA is being seen as begging for the guests to stay and it is they who are loking like clowns as mst people see the irony of the decades spent keeping so called foreign games out of Croker, but now they are begging them to stay.

What soccer heads really think about the GAA sporting Hari kiri of a decision to help the knackers and the toffs and they have sucked it dry to build their  own wee stadium

http://www.thebohs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12405&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=62cebd78aa48fe09172a3e19f41e3695
   The Taliban don't know where to look. They sold-out their long held racist and biggoted stance and now they are more or less begging the FAI to stay. 1.5 million per game was criminal, why they think the FAI or IRFU would be interested in paying that amount when they have other options is beyond me.
Their anti-english rhetoric no longer carries weight and the money they got for selling it off is running out. No more money and no more racist rhetoric, what will they use to brainwash the rural children of Ireland with now?
'HQ' is resembling a white elephant more and more by the day. There was never a need to build such a monstrosity for any of their strange minority sports.

Another nothing story from the Indo, this time taking the old & trusted GAH angle against the evil demented soccer demons. Their historical bigotry has fucked the organisation over a barrel, reap what you sow lads.

and the real give away

Is no-one else happy with the prospect of a piss up in one of the best cities on the planet


So excited to be going home to the mainland

So an isolated extremist view from a so called soccer fan is mean't to be interpreted as the authentic voice of Irish soccer? In truth this moron is no more or less bigotted than some of the clowns on this thread, from a GAA perspective.

I think the main points of the arguments have now been done to death. The simple fact is that the GAA is going to miss the money from soccer and rugby big time in the coming years, and this is bound to have an impact on infrastructural development/ GAA ticket prices, or probably both. It is a pity that the Croke Park option for development as a national sports stadium wasn't taken ten or fifteen years ago.

As for the forthcoming Ireland V Brazil game, well if it is in any way as unexciting and drab as the same fixture in Croke Park two years ago it will be well worth travelling a long distance to miss!

Some of you should know Mr Fearon by now.

You must have some idea now how the owcers feel.

Is it a home game for Brazil?

Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2010, 03:45:09 PM
Is it a home game for Brazil?

Yes. They play a couple of games a year in London.

Quote from: dublinfella on January 22, 2010, 03:49:40 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2010, 03:45:09 PM
Is it a home game for Brazil?

Yes. They play a couple of games a year in London.

Fair enough.

Brazil played in Dublin twice in the last 5 or 6 years, a 0-0 draw at Lansdowne in 2004 and a 1-0 win for Brazil at Croke Park in 2008. Both games were instantly forgettable, and in fact in 2008 the big names like Kaka and Ronaldinho didn't even appear.

I agree that the GAA, rather sadly, have come out of this looking like clowns.

Can't believe there has been ten pages written about a Misinterpreted and unsourced piece.

Quote from: From the Bunker on January 22, 2010, 07:04:31 PM
Can't believe there has been ten pages written about a Misinterpreted and unsourced piece.

Welcome to the gaaboard  :D

Quote from: T Fearon on January 22, 2010, 04:18:10 PM
Brazil played in Dublin twice in the last 5 or 6 years, a 0-0 draw at Lansdowne in 2004 and a 1-0 win for Brazil at Croke Park in 2008. Both games were instantly forgettable, and in fact in 2008 the big names like Kaka and Ronaldinho didn't even appear.

I agree that the GAA, rather sadly, have come out of this looking like clowns.

Yeah the same clowns who have had to help out the 2 "professional" organisations who couldn't manage to build a single decent stadium between them. If anyone looks like clowns its soccer fans like yourself who cried about croke park having to open up for national interest and the good of the economy and now at a time when the south is in economic trouble are quite happy for the fai to support taking a money generating game out of Dublin. As pointed out before the gaa were doing perfectly well before opening up Croke Park and will do perfectly well without the FAI or IRFU.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 22, 2010, 04:18:10 PM
Brazil played in Dublin twice in the last 5 or 6 years, a 0-0 draw at Lansdowne in 2004 and a 1-0 win for Brazil at Croke Park in 2008. Both games were instantly forgettable, and in fact in 2008 the big names like Kaka and Ronaldinho didn't even appear.

I agree that the GAA, rather sadly, have come out of this looking like clowns.

Good then bugger off to the Aviva Stadium with you. I'm sure John  will appreciate the funds for the corporate boxes he can't sell. How many corporate boxes did the Gaa not sell - Oh thats right none. Not bad for a bunch of clowns.

If The Gaa are a bunch of clowns then the FAI must be mentally impaired then so.

Quote from: INDIANA on January 23, 2010, 01:11:14 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 22, 2010, 04:18:10 PM
Brazil played in Dublin twice in the last 5 or 6 years, a 0-0 draw at Lansdowne in 2004 and a 1-0 win for Brazil at Croke Park in 2008. Both games were instantly forgettable, and in fact in 2008 the big names like Kaka and Ronaldinho didn't even appear.

I agree that the GAA, rather sadly, have come out of this looking like clowns.

Good then bugger off to the Aviva Stadium with you. I'm sure John  will appreciate the funds for the corporate boxes he can't sell. How many corporate boxes did the Gaa not sell - Oh thats right none. Not bad for a bunch of clowns.

If The Gaa are a bunch of clowns then the FAI must be mentally impaired then so.

Would take one to know one I'd reckon...

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 20, 2010, 07:04:59 PM

Quote from: Main Street on January 20, 2010, 01:41:56 PM

Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 03:11:46 PM

I think you're right about the IRFU, MS, but definitely not the FAI or the soccer community. They have been grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful and acted like a crowd of knackers (I used the word deliberately earlier) that you let into your field and who proceed to treat the place as if they owned it, complain about it and wonder out loud about why it took you so long to let them in in the first place.

It's nothing that's written in the official contracts - it's just the attitude that comes across from the soccer community and it's totally at variance with that of the rugby people I talk to.

One simple example - Ronnie Whelan on RTÉ saying (I paraphrase) "they were always going to have to give in and let us in eventually".

I was always in favour of opening up, purely for practical purposes - we can use the money - but that attitude would test your conviction that it was worth it.

I have neither seen nor heard nothing, reported or quoted  (or even interpreted with a degree of rationality) to support any one of these contentions that the FAI have been grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful and acted like a crowd of knackers.
Please if it is possible take me out of my ignorance and refer to accurately reported speech from the mouth of Delaney anywhere in the WWW in the last 4 years

Just for the record and for the sake of whattaboutery, an FAI official was quoted in the press referring to Croke Park a "monument to bigotry" 3 or 4 years ago.
Not that one official should be interpreted as the voice for all, this fella's mistake was not being cute enough to keep his mouth shut.
The notion being peddled here of unanimous appreciation is far fetched.

3 or 4 years ago? Cant be that difficult to provide a link can it?  A quote like that would certainly had the GAABoard flaming for weeks.
Or just maybe you might find that the  "monument to bigotry" was a common term of disparagement used by some journalists ( such as Diarmaid Doyle?) to support their ramblings that CP should be opened up.

Neither Ziggy or Hardy have the grace to acknowledge that they have no sourced links to back up their absurd statements about the conduct of the FAI since they entered into negotiations with the GAA over use of Croke Park.

Quote from: Main Street on January 23, 2010, 02:13:20 PM

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 20, 2010, 07:04:59 PM

Quote from: Main Street on January 20, 2010, 01:41:56 PM

Quote from: Hardy on January 19, 2010, 03:11:46 PM

I think you're right about the IRFU, MS, but definitely not the FAI or the soccer community. They have been grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful and acted like a crowd of knackers (I used the word deliberately earlier) that you let into your field and who proceed to treat the place as if they owned it, complain about it and wonder out loud about why it took you so long to let them in in the first place.

It's nothing that's written in the official contracts - it's just the attitude that comes across from the soccer community and it's totally at variance with that of the rugby people I talk to.

One simple example - Ronnie Whelan on RTÉ saying (I paraphrase) "they were always going to have to give in and let us in eventually".

I was always in favour of opening up, purely for practical purposes - we can use the money - but that attitude would test your conviction that it was worth it.

I have neither seen nor heard nothing, reported or quoted  (or even interpreted with a degree of rationality) to support any one of these contentions that the FAI have been grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful and acted like a crowd of knackers.
Please if it is possible take me out of my ignorance and refer to accurately reported speech from the mouth of Delaney anywhere in the WWW in the last 4 years

Just for the record and for the sake of whattaboutery, an FAI official was quoted in the press referring to Croke Park a "monument to bigotry" 3 or 4 years ago.
Not that one official should be interpreted as the voice for all, this fella's mistake was not being cute enough to keep his mouth shut.
The notion being peddled here of unanimous appreciation is far fetched.

3 or 4 years ago? Cant be that difficult to provide a link can it?  A quote like that would certainly had the GAABoard flaming for weeks.
Or just maybe you might find that the  "monument to bigotry" was a common term of disparagement used by some journalists ( such as Diarmaid Doyle?) to support their ramblings that CP should be opened up.

Neither Ziggy or Hardy have the grace to acknowledge that they have no sourced links to back up their absurd statements about the conduct of the FAI since they entered into negotiations with the GAA over use of Croke Park.

Apologies, the actual quote was "built on bigotry". Bigot seemed the mot de jours for anyone pontificating on the usage of Croke Park for a few years there.
Either way, it demonstrates the fallacy of T Fearon's initial attempts to portray the soccer fraternity as being utterly and entirely magnanimous.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/bigotry-remark-angered-gaa-as-lansdowne-doubt-increases-138186.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/bigotry-remark-angered-gaa-as-lansdowne-doubt-increases-138186.html)

Main Street - I am deeply ashamed of my grace deficit. You're absolutely right - I do not have any sourced links to support my contention that the FAI are a bunch of knackers.

As you can well imagine, I have searched the internet, scoured the libraries and ransacked the archives every waking hour for days now for the elsusive evidence on this matter of such vital importance because I couldn't trust my opinion on this. But regrettably it was without success. I must therefore withdraw my statement and concede that the FAI are as fine a bunch of gentlemen as ever ended up after a century of mismanagement without a field to play in.

For the record I believe the number of neanderthals on the soccer side is equal to the number on he GAA side.

I will continue to attend games at both the Aviva and Croke Park, and financially support both the GAA and FAI, and criticise either when they act clown like

I touched on it earlier but it would be great if the gaa tried to promote their own games from January to May now that soccer and rubgy won't be using Croke Park. Quite a bit of money has been spent on the lights and they could be used to promote our games.

A target of 2-3 full houses from January to April with live rte tv coverage should be put in place. These games don't have make huge profits but could be a huge promotional tool. 1 such game could be the first night of the leagues. Like last year have a big kick off to them. Maybe have the All Ireland hurling and football champions both playing. Put on a light show or other entertainment, keep the tickets cheap say €15 and free for kids and really try to promote it.

Do something similar for the league finals. Could also consider a big night on St Patricks night with the club finals and Railway Cup final or one of Dublins big league games. The gaa are definately losing ground to soccer and rugby during the winter and initiatives like these could only be a good thing.

Novelty is wearing off for both the lights and these big fanfare occasions I'm afraid, and in any event it is another example of the GAA's folly to promote the opening league game involving Dublin, and a full house at Croker, when the final itself is played out in front of a 3 quarters empty stadium, that is if its even played at Croker at all.

On a happier note, I took delivery yesterday of two class lower Cusack Tickets for the Club Finals on St Patrick's Day, which season ticket holders like myself were able to purchase for a mere five euros each ;)

With All Ireland Final tickets secure if my county's senior and/or minor team feature, plus a seat block booked at the new Aviva for Messi's visit in August, It's gonna be a great sporting year ;D

Quote from: T Fearon on January 24, 2010, 11:28:17 AM
Novelty is wearing off for both the lights and these big fanfare occasions I'm afraid, and in any event it is another example of the GAA's folly to promote the opening league game involving Dublin, and a full house at Croker, when the final itself is played out in front of a 3 quarters empty stadium, that is if its even played at Croker at all.

On a happier note, I took delivery yesterday of two class lower Cusack Tickets for the Club Finals on St Patrick's Day, which season ticket holders like myself were able to purchase for a mere five euros each ;)

With All Ireland Final tickets secure if my county's senior and/or minor team feature, plus a seat block booked at the new Aviva for Messi's visit in August, It's gonna be a great sporting year ;D

If your talking about through the season ticket scheme I think your wrong in saying you have a ticket secured for the final if Armagh minors are there. I know there is a new initiative this year but don't think it guarentee's you a ticket if minors are there, just says you have a chance.

I was there last yer, and I'll be there this year if either Armagh seniors or minors are involved ;)

Quote from: dublinfella on January 21, 2010, 01:21:38 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on January 18, 2010, 11:23:35 PM
]

And therein lies the problem. A lot of these soccer eejits within the FAI and fans (Tony included) think that the GAA is and that have an automatic right to get into Croke Park.

Well once the gates closed, I for one will be wanting to keep it closed.

Thats ridicilious. The background here is the GAA approaching the FAI to try and have a Brazil home game played in Croke Park.

And now we have people who were opposed to soccer being in Croker in the first place giving the FAI dogs for not having even more there. Its surreal.

there are two thing i want to spew about here. . the gaa and the fai

the gaa dropped the ball here with the begrudging way they opened croke park supposedly to keep diehards on side when in fact there were very few diehards in the first place. the gaa has made tens of millions in rent but the problem would be much bigger if the gaa had budget forward with that income (structural deficit anyone), fortunately they set it aside for specific projects which will now end. that some people still believe it was a mistake to open croke park beggars belief imo. the gaa should have pitched cp as the national stadium from day one and made money out of soccer and rugby, failing that they should have looked for gaa in the new stadium as they need a smaller stadium in dublin.

the fai and delaney in particular get dogs abuse dublinfella because they are incompetent beyond words. ireland is soccer mad yet hows that league of ireland going for you? they have the biggest sports franchise in the world and have a bankrupt business plan, its like having a mcdonalds franchise in tallaght and losing money. i dont really care that much as gaa is my first love along with golf and american football tho i was gutted when ireland didnt make the wc and would have gone as i've done to previous wcs. there was an article in one of the papers during the week about the gaa having literally no presence in large parts of urban ireland, which has basically been left to soccer, thats something the gaa need to work at fulltime imo. as for the fai what have they done to promote their league in these areas? nothing. finally what i really dont understand is the irfu now handing over half their stadium to the fai when they could have financed it themselves. .

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 23, 2010, 02:42:03 PM
Apologies, the actual quote was "built on bigotry". Bigot seemed the mot de jours for anyone pontificating on the usage of Croke Park for a few years there.
Either way, it demonstrates the fallacy of T Fearon's initial attempts to portray the soccer fraternity as being utterly and entirely magnanimous.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/bigotry-remark-angered-gaa-as-lansdowne-doubt-increases-138186.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/bigotry-remark-angered-gaa-as-lansdowne-doubt-increases-138186.html)

There would appear to be some dispute as to when the chance remark was heard.
That chance remark has a lot of milage. Maybe whenever a FAI employee visits Croke Park they just cant help making the same chance remark within earshot of 'Lugs' the sharp eared GAA official. But I have my reasonable doubts.
Here is the 2003 version.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/the-odd-couple-soccer-and-gaa-remain-bitter-enemies-51143.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/the-odd-couple-soccer-and-gaa-remain-bitter-enemies-51143.html)
"a chance remark by a highly prominent FAI employee of the time at the opening of the Special Olympics in 2003 that "the place (Croke Park) was built on bigotry" reflects an attitude that still exists in soccer circles."

Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2010, 04:13:45 PM
Main Street - I am deeply ashamed of my grace deficit. You're absolutely right - I do not have any sourced links to support my contention that the FAI are a bunch of knackers.

You did claim the FAI were  grudging, ungrateful and disrespectful  as well as  acting like a crowd of knackers. I take it, you cannot substantiate any of that :)

QuoteAs you can well imagine, I have searched the internet, scoured the libraries and ransacked the archives every waking hour for days now for the elsusive evidence on this matter of such vital importance because I couldn't trust my opinion on this. But regrettably it was without success. I must therefore withdraw my statement and concede that the FAI are as fine a bunch of gentlemen as ever ended up after a century of mismanagement without a field to play in.

Incompetence is a common enough ailment for a sports association but even the FAI "knackers" had the dignity to respect the contract, abide by the terms of the contract and act with appropriate diplomacy towards the landlord. And when proven to have done this to complete satisfaction, to such an extent that the landlord was willing to accomodate an extension to the contract, an extension that they would not have contemplated in the contract discussions, suggests that (in the total absence of anything to the contrary)  the FAI acted with due propriety throughout the tenure.

Main St you are crediting the addressee of your posts with far to much intelligence and showing far too much respect.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 24, 2010, 09:23:55 PM
Main St you are crediting the addressee of your posts with far to much intelligence and showing far too much respect.

Since you're so interested in the fortunes of the garrison game Tony why don't you bugger off to their websites. this is a Gaa website- if you want to talk soccer take it to the non-gaa discussion board. I don't see the relevence of this thread on this section of the website

It has taken you 11 pages to discern that? Why would a thread debating the continued use of GAA Headquarters for other sports not merit inclusion on a GAA Board?

Don't throw a hissy fit just cause you lose an argument!

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 08:59:29 AM
It has taken you 11 pages to discern that? Why would a thread debating the continued use of GAA Headquarters for other sports not merit inclusion on a GAA Board?

Don't throw a hissy fit just cause you lose an argument!

I'm still trying to fathom why an alleged GAA fan defends soccer more vehemently than any interest he's had in the Gaa and then tries to claim he's a Gaa Fan.
Seems to me Tony you don't know what side of the fence you're on. You and dublinfella must be drinking buddies.

Its not a question of sports competing for my criticism. I believe that soccer and gaa are very strong in Ireland, therefore both governing bodies are doing an awful lot right.

I think the GAA erred big time on this issue (ie of not designating Croke Park as the National Sports Stadium, just as the FAI erred big time on the Eircom Park fiasco) and resent the gratuitous insults meted out to the FAI and soccer supporters in general (including the outrageous labelling of us all as "knackers" by one poster who has been quick in the past to draw attention to others who have used terms of abuse on this Board and who sees himself as some sort of moral guardian), by some posters.

As I have said previously I put my money where my mouth is and am a current GAA season ticket holder and FAI Blockbooker, and generally admire the work of both associations.

By the way you are not the "addressee" I was referring to in my post to Main St.

Happened upon this. Mr Fearon has obviously forgotten it.

Diarmuid Doyle - Viva Aviva – but a stadium by any other name would still beat Croker

If you have to sell the name of your stadium for wads of cash, then you could do worse than have it called 'the Aviva', as Lansdowne Road (under construction, above) will be known from now on.

There's a soft, unthreatening, sound to it; the last four letters make up a word that is often heard in sports grounds, albeit in Spain and Italy. It could have been called the Burger King Stadium.

Whatever it's called, it can't open soon enough. Last Wednesday's match between Ireland and Georgia proved yet again that Croke Park is not fit to be a modern soccer stadium. A terrible surface and unusable terracing contributed to a scrappy match and a terrible atmosphere, and highlighted the mistake the FAI made in not investigating the idea of playing our home matches in fully equipped, atmospheric stadiums in England.

We've plundered the diaspora for players long enough. When we had the opportunity, we should have given them a look at the team.

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/diarmuid-doyle-viva-aviva-but-a-stadium-by-any-oth/?q=croke%20park%20surface (http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/feb/15/diarmuid-doyle-viva-aviva-but-a-stadium-by-any-oth/?q=croke%20park%20surface)

A state of having no fixed abode; an attitude that society owes you something, of expecting as a right access to the property and premises of others, of doing little or nothing to provide yourself with an abode but waiting for others to provide it for you; being so ungrateful, when you are provided with a place to play as to suggest "well, you had to let us in anyway"; perpetrating and tolerating abuse of members of visiting teams, something that no other set of Irish sportsmen I can think of has ever been guilty of; embarrassing the country with a global whinge about the outcome of a game and even begging to be admitted to a tournament as a special case; encouraging supporters to abuse their own players.

We have experienced all of the above from various strata of the Irish soccer community from officials to players, journalists and supporters. This kind of behaviour rings a bell with me. What can it be?

You are joking right?

You obviosuly didn't see Joe Kernan's post match tv interview after Armagh's game in the NFL with Derry at Celtic Park a few years ago,when he claimed about the torrent of foul mouthed abuse both he and the Armagh team received from grown men and young kids.

And of course the death threat to the then Cork Hurling manager last year never happened?

Or haven't you heard Hill 16 resonate with "You'll never beat the Irish" whenever Dublin confront a Northern team?

The FAI or its supporters never expected anything from anyone and they hired Croke Park, as did the IRFU, at exorbitant rates, principally because even the rednecks within the GAA were intelligent enough to realise the folly of depriving Dublin city of millions of euros in the event of big sporting occasions being transferred to the UK.

As for "whingeing"  (or as I would prefer, airing a legitimate grievance at an obvious injustice with terrible consequences), ffs Tyrone are still whingeing about Charlie staying on the field for a few minutes back in 1995 and Peter's disallowed "equalising" point, and practically every red card issued by a referee in a major Championship game is disputed and comes before the DRA.

Pot, Kettle and black comes to mind

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 11:28:06 AM
You are joking right?

You obviosuly didn't see Joe Kernan's post match tv interview after Armagh's game in the NFL with Derry at Celtic Park a few years ago,when he claimed about the torrent of foul mouthed abuse both he and the Armagh team received from grown men and young kids.

And of course the death threat to the then Cork Hurling manager last year never happened?

Or haven't you heard Hill 16 resonate with "You'll never beat the Irish" whenever Dublin confront a Northern team?

The FAI or its supporters never expected anything from anyone and they hired Croke Park, as did the IRFU, at exorbitant rates, principally because even the rednecks within the GAA were intelligent enough to realise the folly of depriving Dublin city of millions of euros in the event of big sporting occasions being transferred to the UK.

As for "whingeing"  (or as I would prefer, airing a legitimate grievance at an obvious injustice with terrible consequences), ffs Tyrone are still whingeing about Charlie staying on the field for a few minutes back in 1995 and Peter's disallowed "equalising" point, and practically every red card issued by a referee in a major Championship game is disputed and comes before the DRA.

Pot, Kettle and black comes to mind

I object to being called a redneck by a hypocrite like yourself Tony. If it was somone making rational reasoned arguments then I'd say fair enough. But not by someone who isn't quite sure what he is and has constantly contradicted himself in the course of the 11 page thread.
Shall I put up some youtube footage of Shamrock Rover fans and Bohs fans to remind you of the people you call "fans". I've yet to see 2 gaelic football sets of fans outside a pub engaged in a pitched battle with the Gardai throwing empty kegs at each other. And you have the temerity to call me a red-neck?
Away with you you gombeen.

Quote from: INDIANA on January 25, 2010, 11:43:55 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 11:28:06 AM
You are joking right?

You obviosuly didn't see Joe Kernan's post match tv interview after Armagh's game in the NFL with Derry at Celtic Park a few years ago,when he claimed about the torrent of foul mouthed abuse both he and the Armagh team received from grown men and young kids.

And of course the death threat to the then Cork Hurling manager last year never happened?

Or haven't you heard Hill 16 resonate with "You'll never beat the Irish" whenever Dublin confront a Northern team?

The FAI or its supporters never expected anything from anyone and they hired Croke Park, as did the IRFU, at exorbitant rates, principally because even the rednecks within the GAA were intelligent enough to realise the folly of depriving Dublin city of millions of euros in the event of big sporting occasions being transferred to the UK.

As for "whingeing"  (or as I would prefer, airing a legitimate grievance at an obvious injustice with terrible consequences), ffs Tyrone are still whingeing about Charlie staying on the field for a few minutes back in 1995 and Peter's disallowed "equalising" point, and practically every red card issued by a referee in a major Championship game is disputed and comes before the DRA.

Pot, Kettle and black comes to mind

I object to being called a redneck by a hypocrite like yourself Tony. If it was somone making rational reasoned arguments then I'd say fair enough. But not by someone who isn't quite sure what he is and has constantly contradicted himself in the course of the 11 page thread.
Shall I put up some youtube footage of Shamrock Rover fans and Bohs fans to remind you of the people you call "fans". I've yet to see 2 gaelic football sets of fans outside a pub engaged in a pitched battle with the Gardai throwing empty kegs at each other. And you have the temerity to call me a red-neck?
Away with you you gombeen.

Interesting. Probably did little to quell the disturbances between the rival fans.

I didn't call you a redneck. Neither did I say every soccer fan in Ireland is a saint. I have constantly said that the rednecks on both sides are as bad as each other, but are thankfully in an ever decreasing minority

It really is time to move on, I believe the overwhelming majority of sports fans in Ireland are like myself,and  follow GAA, Soccer and Rugby, and bear no ill will to any of the three sports mentioned, and want to see them all thrive, like they are doing currently. All three have made mistakes in the past but whats the point in dwelling on these?

Very Good, Saffrom Sam  :D :D :D :D

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 11:56:32 AM
I didn't call you a redneck. Neither did I say every soccer fan in Ireland is a saint. I have constantly said that the rednecks on both sides are as bad as each other, but are thankfully in an ever decreasing minority

It really is time to move on, I believe the overwhelming majority of sports fans in Ireland are like myself,and  follow GAA, Soccer and Rugby, and bear no ill will to any of the three sports mentioned, and want to see them all thrive, like they are doing currently. All three have made mistakes in the past but whats the point in dwelling on these?

I follow all 3 but I have no time for anyone within the FAI  and the way they have conducted their affairs since the late 80's. Where did all the money go that they generated from 88-94. Yet the same people turn around and criticise the GAA that allowed them the use of their premises and yet never asked any questions of their own organisation and where all the money went. How a professional organsiation can't build its own stadium and can't even sell the corporate boxes to go with it when the Govt builds one for them. I find people involved in junior soccer in Ireland are the only ones who ever ask any questions of the FAI - which is the very reason they are generally abandoned by the FAI.
How anyone can have any respect for that organisation is beyond me.

Where did all the money go?

I would suggest a lot of it has gone on soccer infrastructure (Like Abbotstown, Tolka Park, Dalymount Park etc, not too mention a whole hosty of junior clubs) just like the GAA, and don't forget that soccer is a professional sport, unlike the GAA, and had far less opportunities to make money in comparison to the GAA.

Can you provide proof of the FAI officially criticising the GAA, because I am unaware of this?

I have read a lot of transsubstantion, a process of transforming dubious opinions about the FAI to factual status,
has anyone got one quote (from drunken FAI official perhaps?) to even mildly allude to a substantiation of said opinions?


The FAI and IRFU both rejected recent overtures from the GAA asking them would they consider to play some games there after the new Lansdowne was built.
Both the FAI and IRFU said thanks but no dice.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0110/1231515468207.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0110/1231515468207.html)

'"The reality is Lansdowne Road has been built on the premise that we will play our full fixture list there. It is funded by way of commercial contracts with our suppliers, our 10-year ticket holders, with our box holders, potentially with a naming rights holder and with our catering franchise, all of whom have entered commercial arrangements on the basis that there is going to be a full set of rugby internationals and a full set of soccer internationals and a number of concerts every year."'

Now that the estimated Eur35m earned from the FAI and IRFU has been realised,
the reality for the GAA is that vast majority of members would accept the renting out of Croke Park for non GAA events and empower the CC  to decide, as long as it did not interfere with GAA schedule or pitch condition.
The GAA woke up too late from its strict condition of usage after the Congress vote and both the FAI and IRFU have moved on to be contracted to play all games including the block busters at the new Lansdowne.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 12:37:09 PM
Where did all the money go?

I would suggest a lot of it has gone on soccer infrastructure (Like Abbotstown, Tolka Park, Dalymount Park etc, not too mention a whole hosty of junior clubs) just like the GAA, and don't forget that soccer is a professional sport, unlike the GAA, and had far less opportunities to make money in comparison to the GAA.

Can you provide proof of the FAI officially criticising the GAA, because I am unaware of this?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gaa-puzzled-by-delaneys-croke-park-claim-2017428.html

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 11:28:06 AM
Or haven't you heard Hill 16 resonate with "You'll never beat the Irish" whenever Dublin confront a Northern team?

first I have ever heard that Tony - though I would expect that if any Hill 16 fans did, it woul dbe tongue in cheek
I recall them baa-ing like sheep in 1991 at the Meath fans and everyone had a good laugh at it rather than take it as an insult to sexual preferences etc..

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 12:37:09 PM
Where did all the money go?
I would suggest a lot of it has gone on soccer infrastructure (Like Abbotstown, Tolka Park, Dalymount Park etc, not too mention a whole hosty of junior clubs) just like the GAA, and don't forget that soccer is a professional sport, unlike the GAA, and had far less opportunities to make money in comparison to the GAA.
Can you provide proof of the FAI officially criticising the GAA, because I am unaware of this?

Cant say that theres a whole lot of money been poured into abbottstown - and feck all into dalymount and tolka. Certainly not much of the proceeds from the 'good years'.

Junior soccer clubs never saw feck all - apart from the option of tickets for games.

The money was wasted on instances like the first class plane tickets for officials (50 of them apparently) and their wives heading to usa 94 world cup while players travelled in economy class.
fai I dont think even lifted a finger to help fund the rovers stadium - it was left to the council !!

Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 25, 2010, 02:51:31 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 11:28:06 AM
Or haven't you heard Hill 16 resonate with "You'll never beat the Irish" whenever Dublin confront a Northern team?

first I have ever heard that Tony - though I would expect that if any Hill 16 fans did, it woul dbe tongue in cheek

I've never heard that either..

Not saying that the FAI haven't made mistakes. The "loans" to previous Chief Executives being one.

But the GAA have as well, and they initiated this whole debate by their offer of Croker for a soccer friendly and the offer was politely turned down without a hint of malice as far as I could see on the FAI's part.

I think both the GAA and FAI have improved immeasuarbly in terms of administration, disbursement of funds etc, and surely government bodies such as the Sports Council  etd wouldn't totlerate any form of inefficieny or incompetence nowadays.

Anyone that dismisses the FAI or indeed the GAA as a shower of incompetent fools is being as best naive or at worst totally stupid. At the end of the day both are highly successful currently, and this would not have been achieved if they were run by fools

Ask any Armagh fan who was on the hill at the AI semi final in 2002 to confirm what I've said about you'll never beat the Irish chant.Not saying its the worst form of abuse but surely Hardy must be the only person on this Board, who has never heard a GAA player or Official being abused by rival fans, because thats what he alleges in his last post?

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 03:07:36 PM
Not saying that the FAI haven't made mistakes. The "loans" to previous Chief Executives being one.

But the GAA have as well, and they initiated this whole debate by their offer of Croker for a soccer friendly and the offer was politely turned down without a hint of malice as far as I could see on the FAI's part.

I think both the GAA and FAI have improved immeasuarbly in terms of administration, disbursement of funds etc, and surely government bodies such as the Sports Council  etd wouldn't totlerate any form of inefficieny or incompetence nowadays.

Anyone that dismisses the FAI or indeed the GAA as a shower of incompetent fools is being as best naive or at worst totally stupid. At the end of the day both are highly successful currently, and this would not have been achieved if they were run by fools

A list of achievements by the FAI Tony please?

I'll give a quick resume

- The Eircom League is a shambles
- Junior soccer clubs are largely ignored by the FAI. Just talk to junior soccer people about it.
- No Stadium of their own. Needed a Government handout
- Can't sell the coroprate boxes of the above
- Squandered the finance created in 88-94 on corporate lunches, private jet excursions etc
- Saipan
- The most shambolic preparation for any international soccer team in the developed world pre-Saipan
- Had to get a private individual to pay for their manager

Hardly a glowing resume

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 03:10:31 PMHardy must be the only person on this Board, who has never heard a GAA player or Official being abused by rival fans, because thats what he alleges in his last post?

Read it again, Einstein.

Here's a few.

Nuturing and Development of World Class players such as Keane, Mc Grath, Giles, Brady

Eircom League clubs making big inroads in European Competition

Qualifiers for three of the last 5 World Cup qualifiers

Ability to attract a world renowned manager

Will host a major European Tournament Final next year.

Undefeated in three out of four recent meetings with 2006 World Champions and Runners Up.

Ability to attract the likes of Brazil, Argentina etc for friendlies

"perpetrating and tolerating abuse of members of visiting teams, something that no other set of Irish sportsmen I can think of has ever been guilty of"

Seems pretty unambiguous to me. Of course no GAA player engages in "trash talk" to opponents, and there wasn't even a mass brawl at the 1996 All Ireland Final, or indeed at yesterday's Laois Kildare game?

So you consider Armagh v. Dublin at GAA HQ an international event?

But never mind that. I note your acceptance of the manifestations of knackerism you didn't challenge.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 03:48:57 PM
Here's a few.
Nuturing and Development of World Class players such as Keane, Mc Grath, Giles, Brady

Fcukin eck Tone, thats stretching it a good bit
I'd say all their nurturing was done in england !!!

as for attracting high profile opposition, yep , we are 'attracting' them to London !! :D

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 03:48:57 PM
Here's a few.

Nuturing and Development of World Class players such as Keane, Mc Grath, Giles, Brady

Eircom League clubs making big inroads in European Competition

Qualifiers for three of the last 5 World Cup qualifiers

Ability to attract a world renowned manager

Will host a major European Tournament Final next year.

Undefeated in three out of four recent meetings with 2006 World Champions and Runners Up.

Ability to attract the likes of Brazil, Argentina etc for friendlies

Nuturing of the players is done in England

Eircom League is a shambles. Complete and utter jokeshop. No players left. Fact.

Needed Denis O brien to pay for a manager. Steve Staunton is a world class manager?

Undefeated usually means drew. Greece have won a major international competition . Why haven't we? Havn't qualified for one for 8 years.

It appears to me according to yourself that a certain management company attracts those countries you're talking about for high profile friendlies


This is better than watching a one-armed man tryig to swim.

Quote from: INDIANA on January 25, 2010, 06:20:38 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 03:48:57 PM
Here's a few.

Nuturing and Development of World Class players such as Keane, Mc Grath, Giles, Brady

Eircom League clubs making big inroads in European Competition

Qualifiers for three of the last 5 World Cup qualifiers

Ability to attract a world renowned manager

Will host a major European Tournament Final next year.

Undefeated in three out of four recent meetings with 2006 World Champions and Runners Up.

Ability to attract the likes of Brazil, Argentina etc for friendlies

Nuturing of the players is done in England

Eircom League is a shambles. Complete and utter jokeshop. No players left. Fact.

Needed Denis O brien to pay for a manager. Steve Staunton is a world class manager?

Undefeated usually means drew. Greece have won a major international competition . Why haven't we? Havn't qualified for one for 8 years.

It appears to me according to yourself that a certain management company attracts those countries you're talking about for high profile friendlies


This is better than watching a one-armed man tryig to swim.

Another all soccer quote on this GAA thread and this is deleted... blasphemy

How many GAA managers are paid by outside benefactors?

Also Brady, Keane and Mc Grath came to the attention of English clubs via the FAI's underage structures.

Why can so many on this thread not stand soccer? Do you hate great Gaels and All Ireland winners and finalists like Niall Quinn and Kevin Moran, who were happy to play for the FAI for years.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 06:42:22 PM
How many GAA managers are paid by outside benefactors?

Also Brady, Keane and Mc Grath came to the attention of English clubs via the FAI's underage structures.

Why can so many on this thread not stand soccer? Do you hate great Gaels and All Ireland winners and finalists like Niall Quinn and Kevin Moran, who were happy to play for the FAI for years.

If that is reference to my last post, I can stand soccer but this debate is about GAA and FAI. An all soccer debate goes elsewhere. I was at Niall Quinn's final by the way. Bet you can't tell me the year, the teams and how many he scored.   

Dublin V Galway MH, 1983, was there myself but don't remember how many he scored

Was at Lansdowne in 1996 the day he scored twice against Croatia as well ;)

As it took you nine minutes to answer, I suspect you may have googled that answer. I was going to suggest you used phone a friend but that's unlikely  ;)   (just kiddin Tony)

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 06:42:22 PM
How many GAA managers are paid by outside benefactors?

Also Brady, Keane and Mc Grath came to the attention of English clubs via the FAI's underage structures.

Why can so many on this thread not stand soccer? Do you hate great Gaels and All Ireland winners and finalists like Niall Quinn and Kevin Moran, who were happy to play for the FAI for years.

I have travelled to watch the Irish soccer team abroad many many times. I was in Paris in November. I however have no time for the organisation that represents soccer in this country. Why you are attempting to defend such a ramshackle organisation is beyond me. Noyt even die-hard soccer supporters will defend them so why are you?

Another non interesting fact about Niall Quinn is that his missus used to do the washing powder ads.

Quote from: Zapatista on January 25, 2010, 07:08:25 PM
Another non interesting fact about Niall Quinn is that his missus used to do the washing powder ads.

Fine pair of tits on her too

Indiana what exactly is your beef with the FAI and how really are they any better or worse than the gaa?

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 07:23:56 PM
Indiana what exactly is your beef with the FAI and how really are they any better or worse than the gaa?

C'mon I've outlined how incompetent they are above.
My beef is the squandermania of 88-94 by the FAI. They've been leeching off everybody else since. Enough their for a Tribunal.
The inadequate Harry Ramsden preparation at international level
Don't look after the grassroots especially junior soccer
No domestic professional leage. it is now officially the laughing stock of Europe in this respect
Can we have a replay please- I was never so embarrassed to be an Irishman when Delaney started whingeing about that.

All of the above are down to the incompetent management by the FAI.

The Gaa has its issues but its immeasurably better run than the FAI.
Mind you the FAI is such a jokeshop thats not saying much

In my opinion the FAI are the Fianna Fail in the context of World Sporting Organisations.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 07:23:56 PM
Indiana what exactly is your beef with the FAI and how really are they any better or worse than the gaa?

get real tony, the gaa are miles ahead of them with facilities in most towns in ireland. there is a serious lack of brains in the fai and look no further then the league of ireland if you doubt that

Sorry I don't see what the squandermania of 20 years ago has to do with the present FAI and hey they are about to occupy a new stadium.

They have improved domestic soccer significantly, facilities are immeasurably better than 10 years ago, and have been brave enough to go for summer soccer, full time professionalism etc, but what chance have you got when you are effectively up against the English Premiership and endless amounts of cash. Look how Scottish soccer has declined in the last 5 years.

Tme to wise up and realise there are no easy answers to intractable problems.

QuoteThey have improved domestic soccer significantly, facilities are immeasurably better than 10 years ago, and have been brave enough to go for summer soccer, full time professionalism etc

Why is that brave as oppossed to stupid?

Its brave because it was and is a gamble and has undoubtedly raised standards, which they are being berated for on this thread for allegedly not doing.

What standards has it raised Tony? I think a few lads are going overboard here in their criticism, but equally I think you are stretching a lot. I remember Limerick giving Real Madrid a good couple of games, and various other performances by Rovers etc.

I think the 'standards' have been raised in relation to European competition because the Irish teams are in the midst of their season when the qualifying rounds come along, unlike the majority of the teams they play.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 08:46:23 PM
Sorry I don't see what the squandermania of 20 years ago has to do with the present FAI and hey they are about to occupy a new stadium.

They have improved domestic soccer significantly, facilities are immeasurably better than 10 years ago, and have been brave enough to go for summer soccer, full time professionalism etc, but what chance have you got when you are effectively up against the English Premiership and endless amounts of cash. Look how Scottish soccer has declined in the last 5 years.

Tme to wise up and realise there are no easy answers to intractable problems.

Tony will stop digging a bigger hole for yourself. You are talking through your arse .

Shelbourne - folded professionally- now plays in div 1- totally part time

Cork City- almost in administration - couldn't pay their taxes or players

Derry City- relegated after found to be paying players off the books.

Pats- totally part-time. Entire board gone- all the players too. Kerr went- sadlier gone etc etc.

Bohemians are in serious, serious financial difficullty. No within the Eircom League can understand why they haven't been investigated.

The likes of Longford, Waterford, Galway UNited are a all finished. All part time.

Stop talking about things as an alleged soccerman when you haven't an absolute rashers as to whats going on. You look like a plonker at this stage. I actually follow my local Eircom team because a relation of mine plays for them. You don't have a notion of how bad things are. More people go to watch our junior championship football team in the summer then go to watch our local Eircom League team

And this is something the FAI should be proud of?

Its the same in the North, with Junior soccer more popular than senior soccer. The question is what can the FAI do about it, except disburse the limited funding it has as fairly as possible, encourage facility improvement, provide for better coaching, promotion, all of whoch they seem to be doing very well. Reading the international match programmes I am amazed to see soccer thriving oin places like Mayo, Kerry etc.

In short, tell us what more in your opinion, the FAI could and should do, and be realistic. Should the FA in England be responsible for Man Ure's vast debt? How then can the FAI be responsible if certain clubs live beyond their means, with double contracts etc unbeknownst to anyone. At least the FAI dealt severely and appropriately with Derry when their misdemeanours came to light.

By the way Indiana, I followed the great Dundalk team (Keely, Dunning, Muckian, Carlyle, Dainty, the Lawlors etc) of the late 70s and early 80s all over Ireland, and saw the likes of Liverpool, Celtic, PSV Eindhoven and Spurs all get pinned to their collars in European action at Oriel Park. Were you even born at that stage? I played Junior soccer up here for nearly 15 years, and have played with and against the likes of Nigel Worthington, Neil Lennon and Gerry Taggart. I think I know what I'm talking about.

I would have thought that soccer in Ireland is on a par with other European countries outside the five mega-leagues in England, Spain, France, Italy and Germany.  In the European competitions, the Eircom League teams appear to compete favourably with sides from the other leagues, regularly. 

I don't argue with the contention that FAI management could be better, or that the Aviva gamble has gone spectacularly wrong, but there is a following and a large playing contingent in Irish soccer.  They just don't (at present) choose to watch Eircom League soccer in comparable numbers to the GAA inter-county competitions. 

Quote from: T Fearon on January 26, 2010, 09:38:05 AM
Its the same in the North, with Junior soccer more popular than senior soccer. The question is what can the FAI do about it, except disburse the limited funding it has as fairly as possible, encourage facility improvement, provide for better coaching, promotion, all of whoch they seem to be doing very well. Reading the international match programmes I am amazed to see soccer thriving oin places like Mayo, Kerry etc.

In short, tell us what more in your opinion, the FAI could and should do, and be realistic. Should the FA in England be responsible for Man Ure's vast debt? How then can the FAI be responsible if certain clubs live beyond their means, with double contracts etc unbeknownst to anyone. At least the FAI dealt severely and appropriately with Derry when their misdemeanours came to light.

By the way Indiana, I followed the great Dundalk team (Keely, Dunning, Muckian, Carlyle, Dainty, the Lawlors etc) of the late 70s and early 80s all over Ireland, and saw the likes of Liverpool, Celtic, PSV Eindhoven and Spurs all get pinned to their collars in European action at Oriel Park. Were you even born at that stage? I played Junior soccer up here for nearly 15 years, and have played with and against the likes of Nigel Worthington, Neil Lennon and Gerry Taggart. I think I know what I'm talking about.

I suggest then you're living in a time warp. The FAI never told anyone about the clubs that have been breaking the rules for over 5 years Tony- why did it take them 5 years to make an example of someone? Why didn't Drogheda get relegated last year for instance? Poor administration really. They knew about it and did nothing.

With good management in the early 90's there was enough money to help setup clubs as viable semi-pro outfits. Attendences were still reasonably good back then. They ignored this and left the league to rot. The onset of the permiership ensured the Eircom League was reduced to nothing in terms of attendecnes.

what can they do? Revert back to amateur or semi-pro and leave it at that for the time being. Professional soccer full time is finished in Ireland and will probably never rear its head again. And its their fault.

Indiana, you sound like a lad that didn't get his autograph book signed or something. Are you Roy Keane in disguise?

Of course mistakes were made by the FAI just as mistakes have been made by the GAA etc, and every organisation (from Church and State downwards) has tried to cover up its errors for the sake of credibility retention.

The FAI has produced underage European Champions at under age level, teams that have qualifid for three recent World Cup Finals and will host a major European Final next year, so it must be doing something right.

I prefer to accentuate the positive instead of dwelling on the negative. If you are typical of the Junior Soccer fraternity in the 26 counties why don't you get representation on the various FAI councils etc and effect change?

Quote from: T Fearon on January 26, 2010, 10:09:36 AM
Indiana, you sound like a lad that didn't get his autograph book signed or something. Are you Roy Keane in disguise?

Of course mistakes were made by the FAI just as mistakes have been made by the GAA etc, and every organisation (from Church and State downwards) has tried to cover up its errors for the sake of credibility retention.

The FAI has produced underage European Champions at under age level, teams that have qualifid for three recent World Cup Finals and will host a major European Final next year, so it must be doing something right.

I prefer to accentuate the positive instead of dwelling on the negative. If you are typical of the Junior Soccer fraternity in the 26 counties why don't you get representation on the various FAI councils etc and effect change?

Mistakes weren't made Tony- where did the money go? Would you describe that as a mistake. I could think of a few other words for it.

The Irish u21 team can't beat Estonia or Armenia We haven't qualified for any underage tournament at any grade for a decade? The future looks bright alright.

The Junior Soccer people can't get representation. People make sure of it. Why do you think the same incompetents get elected.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 26, 2010, 09:38:05 AM
Its the same in the North, with Junior soccer more popular than senior soccer. The question is what can the FAI do about it, except disburse the limited funding it has as fairly as possible, encourage facility improvement, provide for better coaching, promotion, all of whoch they seem to be doing very well. Reading the international match programmes I am amazed to see soccer thriving oin places like Mayo, Kerry etc.

In short, tell us what more in your opinion, the FAI could and should do, and be realistic. Should the FA in England be responsible for Man Ure's vast debt? How then can the FAI be responsible if certain clubs live beyond their means, with double contracts etc unbeknownst to anyone. At least the FAI dealt severely and appropriately with Derry when their misdemeanours came to light.

By the way Indiana, I followed the great Dundalk team (Keely, Dunning, Muckian, Carlyle, Dainty, the Lawlors etc) of the late 70s and early 80s all over Ireland, and saw the likes of Liverpool, Celtic, PSV Eindhoven and Spurs all get pinned to their collars in European action at Oriel Park. Were you even born at that stage? I played Junior soccer up here for nearly 15 years, and have played with and against the likes of Nigel Worthington, Neil Lennon and Gerry Taggart. I think I know what I'm talking about. :D

I think you're the only one who thinks that.

Quote from: INDIANA on January 26, 2010, 10:16:03 AM


Mistakes weren't made Tony- where did the money go? Would you describe that as a mistake. I could think of a few other words for it.

The grassroots. Just because people like yourself on GAA internet forums talk about the FAI lining their pockets doesn't mean it actually happened.

This thread has gone beyond demeaning and Indiana, you have excelled yourself here. Watch for your comments to be cut and pasted onto soccer forums as proof that good auld fashioned bigotry is alive and well in GAA circles. Take a bow.

Quote from: dublinfella on January 26, 2010, 10:57:35 AM

Quote from: INDIANA on January 26, 2010, 10:16:03 AM


Mistakes weren't made Tony- where did the money go? Would you describe that as a mistake. I could think of a few other words for it.

The grassroots. Just because people like yourself on GAA internet forums talk about the FAI lining their pockets doesn't mean it actually happened.

This thread has gone beyond demeaning and Indiana, you have excelled yourself here. Watch for your comments to be cut and pasted onto soccer forums as proof that good auld fashioned bigotry is alive and well in GAA circles. Take a bow.

Just taken a large bow.  How are the ultras these days?

Quote from: INDIANA on January 26, 2010, 11:29:55 AM

Just taken a large bow.  How are the ultras these days?

How would I know? Why not go onto their forum and ask them? But then again, they presumably will chop your liabelous allegations of FAI theft and you will be back on here crying like a girl that the big bad soccer boys censored you....

Quote from: Billys Boots on January 26, 2010, 09:57:24 AM
I would have thought that soccer in Ireland is on a par with other European countries outside the five mega-leagues in England, Spain, France, Italy and Germany.  In the European competitions, the Eircom League teams appear to compete favourably with sides from the other leagues, regularly. 

I don't argue with the contention that FAI management could be better, or that the Aviva gamble has gone spectacularly wrong, but there is a following and a large playing contingent in Irish soccer.  They just don't (at present) choose to watch Eircom League soccer in comparable numbers to the GAA inter-county competitions.

LOI is the 30th best league in Europe according to UEFA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_ranking_.282010-11_UEFA_competitions.29). Irish League is joint 47th with the Faroese League.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 26, 2010, 09:38:05 AM
By the way Indiana, I followed the great Dundalk team (Keely, Dunning, Muckian, Carlyle, Dainty, the Lawlors etc) of the late 70s and early 80s all over Ireland, and saw the likes of Liverpool, Celtic, PSV Eindhoven and Spurs all get pinned to their collars in European action at Oriel Park. Were you even born at that stage?

You've completely contradicted yourself there.  ;D
A few posts earlier you were praising the FAI for raising the standards of the Eircom league.

Now you have highlighted that a few years ago Irish teams used to compete with the best, whereas nowadays everyone knows an Eircom League team would get slaughtered against good European opposition!

So a lot of people would agree with Roy Keane's assertion of Delaney then I take it???

er 1982 is nearly 30 years go, and its only comparatively recently since Eircom League sides became competitive in Europe again.

For a small country (or 3/4s of a country) were soccer has always played second fiddle to GAA an has suffered prejudice as well, the FAI have done quite a tremendous job overall

Let us look to why we do not have an infastructure in Ireland for Soccer. Until 1971, Rule 27 of the GAA constitution stated that a member of the GAA could be banned from playing its games if found to be also playing, or even attending matches of other sports such as soccer, rugby or cricket which were in conflict with the interests of the GAA.
The rule read "Any member of the association who plays or encourages in any way rugby, football, hockey or any imported game which is calculated to injuriously affect our national pastimes, is suspended from the association."
The rule was examined by GAA committees in 1965 and again in 1971 and under the guidance of Tom Loftus was abolished later in 1971.
As we all know Catholic Ireland was the norm. The Parish priest and the GAA were one. The parish priest was part of the set up of the clubs and he ruled the parish. For a large proportion of the people soccer was a game only available in 'Towns'. You had the GAA and religion against you if you tried to set up a rural local team. Basically there was no chance of setting up a soccer club in rural Ireland in this era.
In any sport 'tradition' plays a large part in the progress and development of the infrastructures of a game. Most soccer clubs in rural Ireland are little more than 30 years old ( as most were set up post 1971) where as most Gaelic clubs are looking to centenary celebrations. Because of this Soccer is still in its infancy in most regions.
I am in my mid-thirties and most (if not all) of the generation before me have never played Soccer competitively, where as most of our Parents, Grand parents even Great grand parents have played Gaelic Football. They look on the soccer strangely when presented at a local level, even though supporting Man u, Liverpool etc on the telly (often with relative passion).
You may ask then how come soccer had success in '88, '90 and 94. This is because we piggy backed on the diaspora rule. Realistically a country like Ireland where Soccer played second or no fiddle to Gaa could not compete on an international level depending on local players from small pockets of the country.
The present squad of Irish players come from various parts of the country, we still depend on the diaspora rule to get the extra bit of qualty, but not like the late 80's early 90's.
The voice of rural areas in Soccer in Ireland is growing. And over time there will be more than a trickle of this voice in FAI headquarters

Quote from: From the Bunker on January 27, 2010, 12:19:57 AM
As we all know Catholic Ireland was the norm. The Parish priest and the GAA were one. The parish priest was part of the set up of the clubs and he ruled the parish.

This wasn't fully the case. There are Catholic orders who maintain a good distance from the GAA.
Take the Jesuit and Holy Ghost Orders for example, who promote rugby primarily and also soccer.
To this day there are Catholic schools who play everything from rugby to soccer to tiddlywinks, but not gaelic games. And it isn't by accident either.

Also, the biggest boost that soccer in Ireland has ever received is from television. The current boom has little or nothing to do with any FAI initiatives, monies, strategies or coaching. Great players like John Giles, Roy Keane, Paul McGrath were produced by playing the game in their local streets and parks. I'd be surprised if they ever had any sort of interaction with any arm of the FAI until they were in their late teens and already on the road to greatness.

To laud the FAI for producing great players is stretching a bit.
The standard has actually dropped in our players who were born and reared during the Charlton era and beyond. Ireland has less world class player now, than a couple of decades ago.

Quote from: AFS on January 26, 2010, 05:14:14 PM

Quote from: Billys Boots on January 26, 2010, 09:57:24 AM
I would have thought that soccer in Ireland is on a par with other European countries outside the five mega-leagues in England, Spain, France, Italy and Germany.  In the European competitions, the Eircom League teams appear to compete favourably with sides from the other leagues, regularly. 

I don't argue with the contention that FAI management could be better, or that the Aviva gamble has gone spectacularly wrong, but there is a following and a large playing contingent in Irish soccer.  They just don't (at present) choose to watch Eircom League soccer in comparable numbers to the GAA inter-county competitions.

LOI is the 30th best league in Europe according to UEFA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_ranking_.282010-11_UEFA_competitions.29). Irish League is joint 47th with the Faroese League.

Yes, and accordingly UEFA rank the top English side, in the history of competitions since the late 1950s as, yes you've guessed it, Leeds Utd.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/kerry-gaa-star-paul-galvin-hit-pupil-with-duster-14653330.html

Now, I'll bet you wouldn't see Robbie Keane or Richard Dunne carrying on like that. >:(

Quote from: Premier Emperor on January 26, 2010, 06:53:48 PM

You've completely contradicted yourself there.  ;D
A few posts earlier you were praising the FAI for raising the standards of the Eircom league.

Now you have highlighted that a few years ago Irish teams used to compete with the best, whereas nowadays everyone knows an Eircom League team would get slaughtered against good European opposition!

It hasn't been the Eircom League for a fair few years....

Pats turned over a Russian team last year, Bohs were the bounce of a ball away from beating the Rapid Vienna side that are still in Europe having beaten Lazio and Villareal, in recent years Swedish, Dutch, Belarrusian, Latvian etc sides have been beaten consistantly as well as beating teams from countries you would expect.

Only a blinkered fool would say that European results haven't been consistantly improving. Years ago Irish sides got into the draw against the Real Madrids and Milans and sometimes gave it a good rattle. Today they beat teams of a standard that is slowly improving.

But the question that must seriously be asked is - what sort of results would be classed as 'good' for a nation of 4m?

Quote from: T Fearon on January 27, 2010, 09:27:05 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/kerry-gaa-star-paul-galvin-hit-pupil-with-duster-14653330.html

Now, I'll bet you wouldn't see Robbie Keane or Richard Dunne carrying on like that. >:(

You sure wouldn't, but you may well see two high profile soccer internationals snub Paul McGrath and his guest (sponsor) in the players lounge after a game - even when McGrath allegedly asked the duo to come over and say a word..

Years ago there was a more level playing field. I watched Dundalk come within the width of a goal post of beating Celtic 1-0 at Oriel Park back in 1979, a result that would have taken them into the quarter finals of the European Cup (now the Champions League), and believe it or not Linfield/IFA did reach the quarter finals of the European Cup in 1967 (the year Celtic won it) and were only beaten by a goal.

I think there is also the question of how far the FAI'S (or any Governing Body's )influence extends. Like the top four in England are good currently primarily because of foreign money, not as a result of any great plan by the English FA.

In the core areas of soccer promotion (in the midst of decades of hostility in that part of Ireland under its jurisdiction), improvement of facilities,and production of an international side that was cheated out of a World Cup Finals place, the FAI ticks most of the boxes

Quote from: Billys Boots on January 27, 2010, 09:24:48 AM

Quote from: AFS on January 26, 2010, 05:14:14 PM

Quote from: Billys Boots on January 26, 2010, 09:57:24 AM
I would have thought that soccer in Ireland is on a par with other European countries outside the five mega-leagues in England, Spain, France, Italy and Germany.  In the European competitions, the Eircom League teams appear to compete favourably with sides from the other leagues, regularly. 

I don't argue with the contention that FAI management could be better, or that the Aviva gamble has gone spectacularly wrong, but there is a following and a large playing contingent in Irish soccer.  They just don't (at present) choose to watch Eircom League soccer in comparable numbers to the GAA inter-county competitions.

LOI is the 30th best league in Europe according to UEFA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_ranking_.282010-11_UEFA_competitions.29). Irish League is joint 47th with the Faroese League.

Yes, and accordingly UEFA rank the top English side, in the history of competitions since the late 1950s as, yes you've guessed it, Leeds Utd.

Hmmm, that bit seems more like some clever stats manipulation by a devious Leeds fan than anything to do with UEFA.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2010, 08:42:24 AM
Great players like John Giles, Roy Keane, Paul McGrath were produced by playing the game in their local streets and parks. I'd be surprised if they ever had any sort of interaction with any arm of the FAI until they were in their late teens and already on the road to greatness.

cant agree with that at all , if you had read any of their books you would know that played all the way up at underage levels in soccer ( and also in gaelic football)

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2010, 08:42:24 AM
Great players like John Giles, Roy Keane, Paul McGrath were produced by playing the game in their local streets and parks. I'd be surprised if they ever had any sort of interaction with any arm of the FAI until they were in their late teens and already on the road to greatness.

All three were underage internationals. All three played schoolboy football. Keane and McGrath played in the LoI before moving to England (as did Giles at the end of his career).

To say English scouts spotted them playing in the streets is patronising in the extreme to the soccer people who helped them on their way. To say none recieved any coaching here is ludicrious. Bad form actually. 

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2010, 08:42:24 AMTo laud the FAI for producing great players is stretching a bit.

But they deserve credit for creating the leagues and coaching structures that allowed their talent to be spotted and flourish before they moved abroad for more money. Look at the Irish squad now. A large number of the younger players in or near the panel started out in the LoI and moved on transfers in their late teens and early twenties, wheras before they moved aged 15. Doyle, Long, Hunt, Hoolihan, Ward, Delaney, Fahey, Gamble, Mooney, Meyler, Coleman etc and McGiinn and McCourt for the 6 counties. All produced at home and moved on later. That change in how talent progresses in in everyones interest and is to the credit of the FAI.

People are writing off the FAI as incompetent at their peril.

Quote from: AFS on January 27, 2010, 09:48:25 AM

Quote from: Billys Boots on January 27, 2010, 09:24:48 AM

Quote from: AFS on January 26, 2010, 05:14:14 PM

Quote from: Billys Boots on January 26, 2010, 09:57:24 AM
I would have thought that soccer in Ireland is on a par with other European countries outside the five mega-leagues in England, Spain, France, Italy and Germany.  In the European competitions, the Eircom League teams appear to compete favourably with sides from the other leagues, regularly. 

I don't argue with the contention that FAI management could be better, or that the Aviva gamble has gone spectacularly wrong, but there is a following and a large playing contingent in Irish soccer.  They just don't (at present) choose to watch Eircom League soccer in comparable numbers to the GAA inter-county competitions.

LOI is the 30th best league in Europe according to UEFA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_ranking_.282010-11_UEFA_competitions.29). Irish League is joint 47th with the Faroese League.

Yes, and accordingly UEFA rank the top English side, in the history of competitions since the late 1950s as, yes you've guessed it, Leeds Utd.

Hmmm, that bit seems more like some clever stats manipulation by a devious Leeds fan than anything to do with UEFA.

Check the website you gave me!!  ;D

Quote from: dublinfella on January 27, 2010, 11:41:47 AM
People are writing off the FAI as incompetent at their peril.

This has gotten serious now.
Peril!
grave peril?

Quote from: Main Street on January 27, 2010, 03:27:33 PM

This has gotten serious now.
Peril!
grave peril?

The gravest...  ;D

You have said it yourself. Certain GAA folk simply dismiss the FAI as chancers etc with no basis in reality. Didn't that CSO report say they have more players than hurlers and footballers combined? If people want to simply dismiss them as irrelevant, more players will be lost in areas soccer has never had a presence in before. It actually suits them that the rank and file GAA think they are a joke.

Quote from: RogerMilla on January 27, 2010, 11:10:49 AM

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2010, 08:42:24 AM
Great players like John Giles, Roy Keane, Paul McGrath were produced by playing the game in their local streets and parks. I'd be surprised if they ever had any sort of interaction with any arm of the FAI until they were in their late teens and already on the road to greatness.

cant agree with that at all , if you had read any of their books you would know that played all the way up at underage levels in soccer ( and also in gaelic football)

I've no doubt there were and are many grassroots volunteers helping run teams
But how much coaching did these players receive from FAI coaches during their formative years?
How much did their coaches get coached and what are we supposed to give FAI credit for?

If Irish players are getting properly coached, then why have Irish players much less technical ability than their continental counterparts?

Quote from: dublinfella on January 27, 2010, 11:41:47 AM
People are writing off the FAI as incompetent at their peril.

Certainly not incompetent, but generally irrelevant to the health of soccer in Ireland.

If the central FAI ceased to exist, soccer would still remain the number one participation sport in Ireland for the foreseeable future. Because the game is marketed from abroad, with the Premiership being the biggest show in town in Ireland.

Just like the exploits of Jack Charlton's team caused the explosion of life at local level. It was what was beamed into people's living rooms that sold them.
Could you point out one FAI strategy, initiative or policy (apart from appointing Jack) that caused this upsurge?

Soccer is like golf ...many play at it as a social thing ...few play it well.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2010, 07:18:37 PM

I've no doubt there were and are many grassroots volunteers helping run teams
But how much coaching did these players receive from FAI coaches during their formative years?
How much did their coaches get coached and what are we supposed to give FAI credit for?

Could the exact same not be said about the GAA in that case?

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2010, 07:38:08 PM

Certainly not incompetent, but generally irrelevant to the health of soccer in Ireland.

I think thats a very naive way of looking at it.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2010, 07:38:08 PM
If the central FAI ceased to exist, soccer would still remain the number one participation sport in Ireland for the foreseeable future. Because the game is marketed from abroad, with the Premiership being the biggest show in town in Ireland.

People would still watch soccer. But the FAI are far better able to run leagues and finish them on time than the GAA, which is one of the reasons people play soccer.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2010, 07:38:08 PM
Just like the exploits of Jack Charlton's team caused the explosion of life at local level. It was what was beamed into people's living rooms that sold them.
Could you point out one FAI strategy, initiative or policy (apart from appointing Jack) that caused this upsurge?

Did I not read something that the GAA are copying the FAI's grassroots model? Don't they have some dutch lad who played for Holland in that 70's with Cruff doing their strategy?

Surely people have read the Indo article on the number of GAA clubs [6] as compared to Soccer clubs[22]  in Mullingar and Athlone....
maybe that is only 2 towns, sure - but I reckon it is the same story elsewhere.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/westmeath-board-to-tackle-athlone-numbers-game-2047356.html


I get a bit cheesed off with self appointed spokesmen for the GAA people calling FAI incompetent....The fact is that we DO have to get our own house in order, and that is going to be a big job. So

Quote from: magickingdom on January 25, 2010, 07:54:26 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2010, 07:23:56 PM
Indiana what exactly is your beef with the FAI and how really are they any better or worse than the gaa?

get real tony, the gaa are miles ahead of them with facilities in most towns in ireland. there is a serious lack of brains in the fai and look no further then the league of ireland if you doubt that

There is also a very big debt problem associate with quite a few of those facilities!!! Portlaoise, Mullinahoran Louth County Board - need I go on.
There is too much of an obsession on Bricks and Mortar in the GAA - face facts!

Quotebut I reckon it is the same story elsewhere.

In fairness it isn't and many soccer clubs don't have any facilities at all so they are teams rather than clubs. But I agree, the FAI aren't as bad as some here have painted and the GAA have plenty to do too.

 you say it isn't , but I am far from convinced.
Some of these new estates happened to be near existing GAA clubs,places like Dunshaughlin and that, so that is fine - but plenty of them aren't.

But again - it doesnt come down to facilities.....It comes down to fellas getting out of bed in the morning to coach kids and drive them to matchs.

I used to live near Donore avenue in Dublin - the clubhouse of the local soccer team seems to be a disused shop or something....they change there and drive to matchs. Nothing special , by an stretch of the imagination. but it doesnt matter. I have walked by there many weekends to see plenty of young lads all togged out jumping into a minivan...

Morale of the story : Bricks and Mortar dont matter a jot at the end of the day - it is the dedication of the members that counts!

So what is your take on the debt problems

Going back to the original topic.
The FAI have finished using Croke Park.  They going to play away games or in Thomond park until August. Fine ! Good luck to them. What has it got to do with us?  It was the deal that was made after all - so why all this fuss.

I dont get why they have to be "grateful"? We let them use Croker,  They paid for it , everything went as it was supposed to. End of story. What does being "grateful" mean anyway ? Saying Thanks - They actually said Thanks plenty of times

This whole controversy is being stirred up by Martin Breheny of the Indo - almost single-handedly.  He is campaigning for the FAI and IRFU to stick with Croker for big games.

Dont get me wrong , I agree with him on quite a lot of issues, but I do wish he drop this whole thing and let us have some peace and quiet. In light of the draw there this morning - Russia , Slovakia etc - I dont reckon we will see any big hue and cry to get them played in Croker.

At the end of the day, the GAA can be proud of Croke Park, the IRFU/FAI can or will be proud of the new Aviva, all three sports have made enormous strides and all three will have bright futures with most Irish sports fans fully supportive of and taking pride in all three. Lets hope the new era of co operation continues between all three as they have much to learn from,and share with each other.

In all seriousness Tony, what would the GAA or IRFU have to learn from the FAI, that would be of benefit to either organisation ?

Yawn!

Quote from: Big Dave the Wave on February 06, 2010, 08:03:09 PM
Surely people have read the Indo article on the number of GAA clubs [6] as compared to Soccer clubs[22]  in Mullingar and Athlone....
maybe that is only 2 towns, sure - but I reckon it is the same story elsewhere.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/westmeath-board-to-tackle-athlone-numbers-game-2047356.html

You can almost assume that in towns with a population of over 10k the GAA is playing second fiddle to soccer in terms of participation.
Exceptions aren't that common.

Quote from: Bensars on February 07, 2010, 04:38:47 PM
In all seriousness Tony, what would the GAA or IRFU have to learn from the FAI, that would be of benefit to either organisation ?

Well lets be honest - I think the GAA needs to get its house in order when it comes to on pitch discipline. SEROUSLY needs to...

Secondly - and this is a big one ...Fixture management!!... here is where i do agree with Breheny! 

The nonsense which applies nowadays, where some players get no club games throughout summer and then face a fixtures glut in the autumn, will be no more as there will be a general recognition that had things not changed, the GAA would have been irretrievably undermined.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/how-the-gaa-will-look-in-2029-1835630.html

[In that article he seems to be saying what I say - The Bricks and mortar obsession has to go]

Quote from: Bensars on February 07, 2010, 04:38:47 PM
In all seriousness Tony, what would the GAA or IRFU have to learn from the FAI, that would be of benefit to either organisation ?

How have they gone from third most played sport in Ireland to first in less than ten years?

Yeh - that was wonderful work by the FAI. 90% of the people who are playing probably never heard of the FAI. It wouldn't have anything to do with saturation Sky coverage and Merchandise United?

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 07, 2010, 06:30:01 PM

Quote from: Big Dave the Wave on February 06, 2010, 08:03:09 PM
Surely people have read the Indo article on the number of GAA clubs [6] as compared to Soccer clubs[22]  in Mullingar and Athlone....
maybe that is only 2 towns, sure - but I reckon it is the same story elsewhere.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/westmeath-board-to-tackle-athlone-numbers-game-2047356.html

You can almost assume that in towns with a population of over 10k the GAA is playing second fiddle to soccer in terms of participation.
Exceptions aren't that common.

I wouldn't even go that far to be honest. Certainly Athlone is a soccer town, but Mullingar has four good GAA clubs in it's environs and would have no soccer club that would compare to any of them in terms of membership. On the other hand, if that were expanded out to the county of Westmeath as a whole, then the numbers would be very different.

Even Westmeath in itself is an exception. It's no coincidence that the county chosen was one which (1) has a terrible record of success in the GAA, and (2) has a (historically at least) successful LOI soccer club. Longford to the north of them might be the same, I don't know the sporting geography of Longford town nearly as well, but if you were to look at the main urban centres in Meath to the east, Roscommon to the west or Offaly to the South, Soccer is not nearly as prominent. That's not to say that the GAA hasn't a fair bit of work to do in towns like Tullamore and Boyle in particular, but in any of those counties the town GAA clubs would be much more prominent than the town soccer clubs.

Also, absolute club numbers is hardly a valid comparison. In Ferbane (my home town) we have a soccer club. They field one adult team - the GAA club fields three adult teams, not counting under 21. Add in the fifteen a side and that's 4:1. An extreme example maybe, but still it shows that club for club is not a fair comparison.

Taking that on further, by my count, in the CCFL there are 26 Offaly clubs. (I say that advisedly since there are a few names I'm not sure of where they're from so i'm taking a guess.) Of those, 18 field one team, 7 field two and one field three - that's 35 teams, at an average of eighteen players per squad giving 630 players. Add in three extra squads for Tullamore twice (Leinster Senior League and LOI A Championship) and Edenderry town and you're up to 684 in total.

Now let's look at the Gaelic football clubs - 32 in Offaly. So far only a narrow advantage. Now factor in the teams that played in last year's championship - 10 clubs fielded one team, 18 fielded two and 4 fielded three - making 58 in total. Giving 24 per squad, which is comparably the same as the soccer, that's 1392 players - over twice as many.

That's a long winded way of saying that there is a lot more to it than just comparing clubs. However the point about the GAA having to do better in urban areas is well made.

I'll grant you that the soccer has teams

Too many people, from the gaa side particularly, still see soccer as a threat, unnecessarily. Hopefully the last three years has broken down barriers though you'll always have rednecks on the gaa side, the sporting equivalents of dissident republicans or the TUV.

Quote from: Hardy on February 09, 2010, 06:29:07 PM
Yeh - that was wonderful work by the FAI. 90% of the people who are playing probably never heard of the FAI. It wouldn't have anything to do with saturation Sky coverage and Merchandise United?

But the coaching and league structures still have to be in place to facilitate these kids, regardless of where they get the inspiration to play soccer.

You could also say the same about the GAA - kids don't play football because they like the idea of the association. They see the Jay Shelocks of the world and want to emulate.

its clear that people have one set of rules for the GAA and even IRFU but beat the FAI regardless of whether its fair or not. Its quite peculiar and a strategically bad idea.

they are rednecks Dublinfella, and thankfully they are becoming an ever decreasing minority

Quote from: dublinfella on February 09, 2010, 06:03:35 PM

Quote from: Bensars on February 07, 2010, 04:38:47 PM
In all seriousness Tony, what would the GAA or IRFU have to learn from the FAI, that would be of benefit to either organisation ?

How have they gone from third most played sport in Ireland to first in less than ten years?

just as a matter of interest dublinfella where are you getting your info from

Quote from: tyronefan on February 09, 2010, 07:47:39 PM

just as a matter of interest dublinfella where are you getting your info from

There was a series of ESRI reports on sports participation in Ireland (26) that showed soccer as having the most participants at both a formal league level and scratch 5 and 7 a side games. GAA playing numbers had remained constant over the time frame. Done extensively on here a few years ago.

Quote from: T Fearon on February 09, 2010, 07:36:44 PM
they are rednecks Dublinfella, and thankfully they are becoming an ever decreasing minority

What is your obsession with that Ulster invention - the redneck?
Do you win a prize if you manage to mention the word a certain amount of times?

I don't know exactly which report you are referring to but the ERSI report that was discussed on this board some time ago

http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20080410120627/RS002.pdf (http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20080410120627/RS002.pdf)

defines participation as

''recreational sport'' means all forms of physical activity which, through casual or regular participation, aim at expressing or improving physical fitness and mental well-being and at forming social relationships;


'Under Part 1, Section 6(1)(b) of the same act, one of the statutory functions of the Council is to develop strategies for increasing participation in recreational sport, as defined. In effect, the above definition is adopted throughout this report. Thus, in addition to traditional competitive games, doing non-competitive exercise activities, such as going to the gym, attending fitness classes or swimming, is counted as 'playing sport'. Moreover, playing sport casually among friends is given the same status as playing organised sport in a club setting. '

So no differentiation is made between casual and registered.
Not that I have an inclination to be involved in a pissing contest but afair GAA comes out strong in surveys around actual club membership sporting activity.

Dublinbucko and Tony Fearon mustnt have seen this story ot I'm sure they'd have commented on it   ;D ;D ;D ;D :P :P
No security on Luas as football thugs ran riot
THERE were no security guards on a Luas tram when warring football fans clashed last week.

The incident happened on the Red Line as supporters of Shamrock Rovers and Shelbourne FC travelled home after a pre-season 'friendly' in Tallaght Stadium last Friday night.

Witnesses reported that a group of known Shelbourne fans, who have been banned from the team's home stadium, Tolka Park, began shouting abuse at Rovers supporters at the Belgard stop. A mass fight between the two groups ensued.

Gardai in Tallaght are investigating the incident and Luas operator Veolia Transport said it had handed over CCTV footage taken from the tram.

No passengers or staff were hurt in the incident, which occurred at about 10.30pm.

However, terrified passengers on the packed tram said they were left "very exposed" due to a lack of security guards.

The decision may not have been ultimately the FAI's but wonder did it cost money playing the game Ireland game in England tonight instead of Croke Park. There was 40,000 at it. You'd imagine it would have attracted 76,000 to Croke Park including a full corporate section.

Tyrone Dreamer. What is about the fact that the promoters of the Brazil Ireland game insisted that it take place in London, that you don't understand?

Quote from: T Fearon on March 03, 2010, 09:11:11 AM
Tyrone Dreamer. What is about the fact that the promoters of the Brazil Ireland game insisted that it take place in London, that you don't understand?

they did?
where was this 'insistence'?
do you not smell a 'cover up'*?

*ie that this is an excuse for bringing the game over to london, when Ireland have always played brazil in Dublin/Ireland !
Or are we seeing some weird precedent where fai and the soccer people no longer want to hold Ireland home games or any Ireland games in Ireland any more - didnt we play in London last year too?
Or is it that the fai would rather lose money than allow the GAA get any more than they have to ?

Ach no. But last year Italy played Brazil in London at the Emirates in a friendly, so you might as well ask why that game didn't take place in Italy. Obviously whoever is controlling the Brazilians are insisting on the London venue. I reckon as Tyrone Dreamer says, the FAI could have made more money had it been at Croker, but obviously the gun was held to their head and it was a case of either London or no game.

I thought the FAI were receiving a set fee, no matter what the venue. Just like the Brazilians (although not as much  :)  ).

The Brazilians didnt care whether it was held in Dublin or London. It was completely down to the promoters who got a much better deal from Arsenal than the GAA were offering. Croke Park has long been the most expensive stadium in Europe to rent out, even though they did offer to reduce their price for this.

Quote from: Main Street on February 11, 2010, 07:23:42 PM
I don't know exactly which report you are referring to but the ERSI report that was discussed on this board some time ago

http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20080410120627/RS002.pdf (http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20080410120627/RS002.pdf)

defines participation as

''recreational sport'' means all forms of physical activity which, through casual or regular participation, aim at expressing or improving physical fitness and mental well-being and at forming social relationships;


'Under Part 1, Section 6(1)(b) of the same act, one of the statutory functions of the Council is to develop strategies for increasing participation in recreational sport, as defined. In effect, the above definition is adopted throughout this report. Thus, in addition to traditional competitive games, doing non-competitive exercise activities, such as going to the gym, attending fitness classes or swimming, is counted as 'playing sport'. Moreover, playing sport casually among friends is given the same status as playing organised sport in a club setting. '

So no differentiation is made between casual and registered.
Not that I have an inclination to be involved in a pissing contest but afair GAA comes out strong in surveys around actual club membership sporting activity.

Fair play I never saw that before.
I always had a feeling they were counting lads that kicked a ball around on the green.

Quote from: Hound on March 03, 2010, 01:23:23 PM
I thought the FAI were receiving a set fee, no matter what the venue. Just like the Brazilians (although not as much  :)  ).

The Brazilians didnt care whether it was held in Dublin or London. It was completely down to the promoters who got a much better deal from Arsenal than the GAA were offering. Croke Park has long been the most expensive stadium in Europe to rent out, even though they did offer to reduce their price for this.

Don't know if that's the case. I believe the organiser of the Brazlian friendlies have a deal with Arsenal to bring Brazil to their grounds over the next number of years. Sure, as someone highlighted earlier, Italy was brought to the London club to play Brazil also.

I think the plan is also to allow Arsenal supporters to watch some good football at least once a season ;D

Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 03, 2010, 09:24:44 AM
they did?
where was this 'insistence'?
do you not smell a 'cover up'*?

*ie that this is an excuse for bringing the game over to london, when Ireland have always played brazil in Dublin/Ireland !
Or are we seeing some weird precedent where fai and the soccer people no longer want to hold Ireland home games or any Ireland games in Ireland any more - didnt we play in London last year too?
Or is it that the fai would rather lose money than allow the GAA get any more than they have to ?

What are you trying to get at? You do understand that this was a Brazil home game? Thje FAI get a fee and have none of the expense/hassle/risk of organising anything.

Quote from: Hound on March 03, 2010, 01:23:23 PM
I thought the FAI were receiving a set fee, no matter what the venue. Just like the Brazilians (although not as much  :)  ).

The Brazilians didnt care whether it was held in Dublin or London. It was completely down to the promoters who got a much better deal from Arsenal than the GAA were offering. Croke Park has long been the most expensive stadium in Europe to rent out, even though they did offer to reduce their price for this.

According to Breheny in the Indo on Monday, the GAA refused to tender for the game full stop....

Quote from: dublinfella on March 03, 2010, 04:09:58 PM

Quote from: Hound on March 03, 2010, 01:23:23 PM
I thought the FAI were receiving a set fee, no matter what the venue. Just like the Brazilians (although not as much  :)  ).

The Brazilians didnt care whether it was held in Dublin or London. It was completely down to the promoters who got a much better deal from Arsenal than the GAA were offering. Croke Park has long been the most expensive stadium in Europe to rent out, even though they did offer to reduce their price for this.

According to Breheny in the Indo on Monday, the GAA refused to tender for the game full stop....

Well that's lies.

Quote from: Hound on March 03, 2010, 01:23:23 PM
I thought the FAI were receiving a set fee, no matter what the venue. Just like the Brazilians (although not as much  :)  ).

The Brazilians didnt care whether it was held in Dublin or London. It was completely down to the promoters who got a much better deal from Arsenal than the GAA were offering. Croke Park has long been the most expensive stadium in Europe to rent out, even though they did offer to reduce their price for this.

The deal from Arsenal must have been good if it covered what they lost out on ticket sales. They missed out on 36,000 tickets being sold at 60 or 70 euro a go (the corporate one's would probably be dearer again). Croke Park might have been dearer but they'd surely have made more money out of it.

Quote from: dublinfella on March 03, 2010, 04:08:59 PM

? You do understand that this was a Brazil home game? .

London's in Brazil ??? Now you're really on the wind up .....or do you believe some of the stuff you post  ::) :o

is it true Irelands next two games are in the RDS? why no croker??