Can't see either team busting themselves, a draw will see them both through to the final & I think Cork will prefer us to the Dubs in the final.
So if Mayo lose and Dublin win is it the Dubs and Cork in the final?
Dublin would take us on the head to head, so yes.
I think Tyrone will beat Dublin and next weeks game in Cork will just be shadow boxing.
If the Dubs leave someone in the Tyrone half to give Bernard Brogan a hand they have a good chance.
is the final fixed for croke park or neutral venue
Don't know, but if the Dubs are not involved, you'd be as well playing it in Limerick or Ennis.
Would like to travel back for a league final if we get there, but if the details are announced quite late it becomes difficult for those overseas to arrange flights etc.
Quote from: mortified on March 28, 2010, 06:15:57 PM
is the final fixed for croke park or neutral venue
I assumed the Division 1 and 2 finals would be played in Croke Park on the same day.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 28, 2010, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: mortified on March 28, 2010, 06:15:57 PM
is the final fixed for croke park or neutral venue
I assumed the Division 1 and 2 finals would be played in Croke Park on the same day.
Yeah I think that's correct.
It is unusual for a league campaign to complete without at least one game ending in a draw. There has been no draws yet in Division 1 this year, so there is a good chance there will be one in the final round. It might as well be this one 8)
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 28, 2010, 04:05:58 PM
Can't see either team busting themselves, a draw will see them both through to the final & I think Cork will prefer us to the Dubs in the final.
Cork are already there. Which do you reckon the Gaa would prefer playing them?
What are the odds on a Dublin/Cork double next week?
QuoteIt is unusual for a league campaign to complete without at least one game ending in a draw.
The new rule at the end has more to do with that IMO.
The old 'about 3 mins' or 'about 4 mins' left is gone so the ref can't blow up at the end when it's level or play on for the draw if there is only a point in it.
I'd imagine if Mayo and Cork are level with 5 mins to go it will turn into a farce with both teams playing for the draw. This won't suit Mayo as we could do with a break now anyhow. League finals are a waste of time and effort and we need to preserve our lads now for the Championship and not have any more injuries like Keith Higgins got today.
Ah now, highorlow in all fairness it would be nice to win the league final all the same.
Quote from: highorlow on March 28, 2010, 08:39:44 PM
QuoteIt is unusual for a league campaign to complete without at least one game ending in a draw.
The new rule at the end has more to do with that IMO.
The old 'about 3 mins' or 'about 4 mins' left is gone so the ref can't blow up at the end when it's level or play on for the draw if there is only a point in it.
I'd imagine if Mayo and Cork are level with 5 mins to go it will turn into a farce with both teams playing for the draw. This won't suit Mayo as we could do with a break now anyhow. League finals are a waste of time and effort and we need to preserve our lads now for the Championship and not have any more injuries like Keith Higgins got today.
Won't happen.
It wouldn't do Mayo any harm to play a big game in Croke Park.
It would do them even less harm to win a big game in Croke Park.
QuoteIt wouldn't do Mayo any harm to play a big game in Croke Park.
It would do them even less harm to win a big game in Croke Park.
I think we won a league under Pat Holmes back in the nougities, League followers will remember better. I wouldn't call a league final in a 3/4 empty Croke Park a 'big game'.
Fair enough though for some youth followers a piece of silverware can inspire a new Aidan O'Shea which never does any harm.
He is the finest footballer we have since John Morley RIP - hope he stays clear of injury for the championship. If he was in Kerry he would be minded.
Quote from: highorlow on March 29, 2010, 08:55:31 AM
QuoteIt wouldn't do Mayo any harm to play a big game in Croke Park.
It would do them even less harm to win a big game in Croke Park.
I think we won a league under Pat Holmes back in the nougities, League followers will remember better. I wouldn't call a league final in a 3/4 empty Croke Park a 'big game'.
Fair enough though for some youth followers a piece of silverware can inspire a new Aidan O'Shea which never does any harm.
He is the finest footballer we have since John Morley RIP - hope he stays clear of injury for the championship. If he was in Kerry he would be minded.
Yeah, we beat Galway in the 2001 league final. Then had a disastrous Championship when Gerry Lohan got that infamous injury time goal for the Rossies, then we lost to Westmeath in what was the first year of the qualifiers.
So a league win is no guarantee of a long summer!
Not sure what you mean with the 'If he was in Kerry he would be minded' comment. O'Shea is a big lad and well able to look after himself. The U21s are finished for the year so he's not facing any more football than the other players.
Kerry aren't shy about throwing young lads into the fray either.
Aidan just needs to play his way out of this patch of bad form - hopefully yesterday's goal will have given him the confidence he's been lacking. For some reason, he hasn't been able to hold onto a ball at all this year...
A draw means nothing to Cork. They are already in the final.
The question is will they bother beating Mayo. I don't think they'd want to show anything like there full hand if its likely they'll be playing the same opposition in the next game, the final.
I don't think its likely the Dubs would beat Tyrone. But I reckon the Cork management, players and fans would largely favour a final against Dublin.
dubs could beat tyrone, I would not cry if we do not see a league final with Mayo. As for Sligo, they should realistically be a warmup game for Mayo unless something serious happens to them or Mayo between now and the championship.
Bloody hell, there are people out there who don't want Mayo to win the league who follow football in Mayo. Nice to meet ye lads. I know championship is all that matters, but remind me who won last year's leagues?
I'm up for Mayo Farrandeelin if that's any use.
I think it would do Mayo good to get to the league final, and even better to win it. Its good to be in a winning habit.
I dont buy into the thinking that they need a rest - it is only one game after all.
I know the league is often used as merely a warm up for Championship, but its one of only two national competitions, and its not as if we are winning so much that we can turn our noses up at it! I guarantee if the Kerrys or Tyrones of this world were in Mayo's position they'd be doing all they could to win.
As for the game, I cant see Cork busting a gut, and it would probably suit them better to play Mayo than Dublin in a final....
QuoteNot sure what you mean with the 'If he was in Kerry he would be minded' comment
Not playing the lad in the league and saving him for the Championship.
It's games he needs.
He's too heavy.
He's not too heavy, he's a big lad and doesn't look fast but once he learns to play to his strengths he'll be an unreal footballer. He's strong and has a great eye for goal, once he gets going its impossible to stop him.
All he needs is a chance and to take some of the pressure off himself
simple question....simple answer
the odds are 7/1...the rest of use stop talking shite
Quote from: Jinxy on March 30, 2010, 11:55:30 AM
It's games he needs.
He's too heavy.
He's just big-boned.
Lads is it defo head-to-heads if Mayo & Dublin end on the same points, or even Cork & Dublin. Why did the match programme waste time going on about points difference if it won't matter anyways.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 30, 2010, 05:12:05 PM
Lads is it defo head-to-heads if Mayo & Dublin end on the same points, or even Cork & Dublin. Why did the match programme waste time going on about points difference if it won't matter anyways.
Yes, definitely head to head.
in fairness to the programme makers they are not clairvoyant and were not to know the results of last weekends games. If Mayo, Dublin and Cork had ended up on the same number of points then score difference would have come into play. Head to head only applies when two teams end equal.
QuoteIt's games he needs.
He's too heavy
Ya he needs to watch the skinfolds alright.
He's bringing the mullet back. Overweight and a mullet, great look Aidan!
Ah no he's a big lad who has to be very conscious of his weight.
Could it be that there are no langers hanging about on this board? Come to think of it, there isn't a langerette to be found either.
The Republic of Langerland hasn't sent an ambassador along to discuss surrender terms either. Hasn't anyone by the Lee realised yet the mortal danger to their pride and football prowess that has appeared on their radar screens?
Apart from Jinxy and Hound, a pair of sensible lads who do join in on a wide number of Mayo-related threads, it's shamrock and heather stuff all the way - so far at any rate. Ne'er a sign of Indy or Zulu either.
Maybe it's the sight of Aidan O'Shea's mullet that is giving them all the heebie jeebies.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 01, 2010, 09:24:03 AM
Could it be that there are no langers hanging about on this board? Come to think of it, there isn't a langerette to be found either.
The Republic of Langerland hasn't sent an ambassador along to discuss surrender terms either. Hasn't anyone by the Lee realised yet the mortal danger to their pride and football prowess that has appeared on their radar screens?
Apart from Jinxy and Hound, a pair of sensible lads who do join in on a wide number of Mayo-related threads, it's shamrock and heather stuff all the way - so far at any rate. Ne'er a sign of Indy or Zulu either.
Maybe it's the sight of Aidan O'Shea's mullet that is giving them all the heebie jeebies.
Reillers is from a Dual club - he should really be posting on football too..
This time next our fate will be decided and I'd say that Cork will not want to lose their last home game in the league so they will be odds on favourites I'd say. Added to Dublin's necessity to beat Tyrone in Omagh and the fact Mayo won in Omagh and Dublin beat Mayo it all boils down to a Dublin v Cork league final which will sell out.
Hard to comment on this game, we just don't know how seriously will Cork take it. I suspect they'll play a weakened side which makes predicting the winner difficult. Mayo are coming along nicely but they often do well in the league and struggle in the championship, particularly at the business end, so I'm not convinced that their current position is any cause for summer optimism. Considering the heat JOM was getting here at the start of the year I don't see too many lads giving him the credit he deserves, is that fair or have I just missed those posts?
Quote from: Zulu on April 04, 2010, 09:02:05 PM
Hard to comment on this game, we just don't know how seriously will Cork take it. I suspect they'll play a weakened side which makes predicting the winner difficult. Mayo are coming along nicely but they often do well in the league and struggle in the championship, particularly at the business end, so I'm not convinced that their current position is any cause for summer optimism. Considering the heat JOM was getting here at the start of the year I don't see too many lads giving him the credit he deserves, is that fair or have I just missed those posts?
its a bit early to be handing out the plaudits yet as regards humble pie have you made any comments about the performances of seamus o' shea ;)?
Touche! And I will gladly acknowledge his improvement though the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned, he will need to produce championship performances before I am convinced. In saying that, he is performing much better than I thought he would and it is great to see him develop as he is a decent skin and I'd love to see him be part of an AI winning Mayo team. As for JOM, I think he has been doing a good job (like Gilroy in Dublin) with a good, but not outstanding, panel of players and he is simply continuing that good work but isn't getting much credit for it. When Mayo go through a bad patch or lose however lads are never slow to get the digs in.
Quote from: Zulu on April 04, 2010, 09:20:01 PM
Touche! And I will gladly acknowledge his improvement though the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned, he will need to produce championship performances before I am convinced. In saying that, he is performing much better than I thought he would and it is great to see him develop as he is a decent skin and I'd love to see him be part of an AI winning Mayo team. As for JOM, I think he has been doing a good job (like Gilroy in Dublin) with a good, but not outstanding, panel of players and he is simply continuing that good work but isn't getting much credit for it. When Mayo go through a bad patch or lose however lads are never slow to get the digs in.
well thank you zulu 8) no more than the jury is out on o' shea the same can be said for o' mahony remember we got to the league final in his 1st year in charge in 2007 and look what happened it will be later on in the summer that o'mahony will be judged
Big competition for places in Cork so I don't think they'll be taking it handy. Mayo better bring their A game.
I think Cork would prefer Dublin in the final to get the younger lads used to playing in front of big crowds.
Quote from: small white mayoman on April 04, 2010, 09:51:53 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 04, 2010, 09:20:01 PM
Touche! And I will gladly acknowledge his improvement though the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned, he will need to produce championship performances before I am convinced. In saying that, he is performing much better than I thought he would and it is great to see him develop as he is a decent skin and I'd love to see him be part of an AI winning Mayo team. As for JOM, I think he has been doing a good job (like Gilroy in Dublin) with a good, but not outstanding, panel of players and he is simply continuing that good work but isn't getting much credit for it. When Mayo go through a bad patch or lose however lads are never slow to get the digs in.
well thank you zulu 8) no more than the jury is out on o' shea the same can be said for o' mahony remember we got to the league final in his 1st year in charge in 2007 and look what happened it will be later on in the summer that o'mahony will be judged
In fairness swm, JOM has been doing a pretty good job over the three years so I think he warrants a bit more credit than he gets. Other than the defeat to Meath last year I think he has got as much out the Mayo teams as could be expected. Anyway things look to be going alright at the moment but it will be a tough championship this year with Mayo capable of beating most of the top teams out there but also capable of being beaten by 7 or 8 of them too. If Mayo happen to get beaten by Galway and then lose to, lets say Kildare, I don't think that would mean JOM has done a bad job as I don't think Mayo are so far ahead of either of those teams to be sure they'd beat either. No FB, an average midfield and a forward line devoid of a Gooch, SON, B. Brogsn type forward will be your undoing I fear. Hope I'm wrong though.
Quote from: Zulu on April 04, 2010, 10:05:14 PM
Quote from: small white mayoman on April 04, 2010, 09:51:53 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 04, 2010, 09:20:01 PM
Touche! And I will gladly acknowledge his improvement though the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned, he will need to produce championship performances before I am convinced. In saying that, he is performing much better than I thought he would and it is great to see him develop as he is a decent skin and I'd love to see him be part of an AI winning Mayo team. As for JOM, I think he has been doing a good job (like Gilroy in Dublin) with a good, but not outstanding, panel of players and he is simply continuing that good work but isn't getting much credit for it. When Mayo go through a bad patch or lose however lads are never slow to get the digs in.
well thank you zulu 8) no more than the jury is out on o' shea the same can be said for o' mahony remember we got to the league final in his 1st year in charge in 2007 and look what happened it will be later on in the summer that o'mahony will be judged
In fairness swm, JOM has been doing a pretty good job over the three years so I think he warrants a bit more credit than he gets. Other than the defeat to Meath last year I think he has got as much out the Mayo teams as could be expected. Anyway things look to be going alright at the moment but it will be a tough championship this year with Mayo capable of beating most of the top teams out there but also capable of being beaten by 7 or 8 of them too. If Mayo happen to get beaten by Galway and then lose to, lets say Kildare, I don't think that would mean JOM has done a bad job as I don't think Mayo are so far ahead of either of those teams to be sure they'd beat either. No FB, an average midfield and a forward line devoid of a Gooch, SON, B. Brogsn type forward will be your undoing I fear. Hope I'm wrong though.
I quite like that we have a good selection of forwards rather than one out and out star that we're always relying on. If we only had one, but he was outstanding, and then he got injured. we'd be finished. Teams are going to put extra focus on Aidan O'Shea this year, hopefully this should free up some space for the other forwards and they'll go well. With McGarrity back fit, Parsons back to form (thought he played great against Monaghan) and Seamus O'Shea winning plenty of dirty ball, I think that's a fair decent midfield too.
I just wish we were a bit more agressive in the backs though, they're all lovely footballers but I wish we had a few more tough men to put a bit of fear into opposition forwards. That, I fear, could be our undoing this year.
Don't know Cosmo, I don't rate McGarrity as a top midfielder and Parsons, though talented, or O'Shea have yet to prove themselves at championship level. I also think every AI winning team has, at least, one go to forward, they have other decent forwards but you have to have one top notch forward and I don't think Mayo have.
Quote from: Zulu on April 04, 2010, 10:22:15 PM
Don't know Cosmo, I don't rate McGarrity as a top midfielder and Parsons, though talented, or O'Shea have yet to prove themselves at championship level. I also think every AI winning team has, at least, one go to forward, they have other decent forwards but you have to have one top notch forward and I don't think Mayo have.
You are right, Zulu; Parsons and O'Shea aren't quite ready yet but they are coming along nicely. Give them another year. I don't think McGarrity has enough of the grafter in him to be truly effective. He's a brave and dedicated individual but he is not a leader.
No, we don't have any top class forwards, not yet at any rate. But there is a very good spread of talent there all the same and things are coming along nicely. By this time next year, I expect our attack will be able to trouble any defence in the country.
Right now, I'm happy that the team has made it to the business end of the league. They have managed to do so without having a single easy match and without playing exceptionally well at any time either. They made plenty of mistakes along the way and totally lost the plot at times –as any developing side tends to do but they showed no sign whatever of throwing in the towel in any game so far.
We can only wait to see what happens next week and what interest Mayo may have in further proceedings but I'm happy they will continue to develop and improve.
It may well take another year before this team is ready for all comers but I'm reasonably happy with their progress so far.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 04, 2010, 06:56:59 PM
This time next our fate will be decided and I'd say that Cork will not want to lose their last home game in the league so they will be odds on favourites I'd say. Added to Dublin's necessity to beat Tyrone in Omagh and the fact Mayo won in Omagh and Dublin beat Mayo it all boils down to a Dublin v Cork league final which will sell out.
You do a hard sell. Dont think Dublin v Cork final would sell out much. Would you go? Dont think a Mayo final would sell much either looking at home attendances this year. The GAA have a problem. People dont go to games.
Quote from: Zulu on April 04, 2010, 09:02:05 PM
Hard to comment on this game, we just don't know how seriously will Cork take it. I suspect they'll play a weakened side which makes predicting the winner difficult. Mayo are coming along nicely but they often do well in the league and struggle in the championship, particularly at the business end, so I'm not convinced that their current position is any cause for summer optimism. Considering the heat JOM was getting here at the start of the year I don't see too many lads giving him the credit he deserves, is that fair or have I just missed those posts?
I, for one, have given him a little praise, perhaps. Why you believe he deserves credit is not obvious to me. If he has got it right for the business end ok but right now we can enjoy a nice early run but the ? marks remain and if we struggle in the championship as you point out we usually do, then Johnno must get the credit he deserves for that as well, right?
Anybody with a smidereen of sense would have done the positive things that have been done this spring. Things like playing Seamus Ó Sé and not playing Donal Vaughan corner back. But his failure over the years not to take the full back problem seriously is probably going to come back to haunt us again. He may have done something about our fitness preparation, and if he has I will give him credit for that - even though his card was marked on that more than a year ago and he should have changed things last year.
We re still tactically innocent and as I ve said in an earlier post players are still required to come up with the answer on the pitch - if they can.
The continued absence ot Aidan Higgins from the panel is beyond belief. Looked in great shape at the weekend league game. Pace to burn still. A hardness and an awareness that would be priceless in this panel without seasoned defenders. If he brings him into the panel then he deserves credit for admitting he got it wrong and would be a better man and manager, in my book, if he did so. I wont hold my breath though. Since his second coming in Mayo he has markedly refused to reverse poor decisions. I think he must feel, as a politician, he does nt want to be seen to back down when he s wrong. That he would put his own posture ahead of the county team is a cause for concern imo.
I would expect Mayo managed by anybody with a clue, would be in a similar position right now. Let alone a manager of about 26 years intercounty experience and a double AI winner. He s got a conveyour belt of talent most counties could only dream about. So much so he can discard players while they still have a lot to offer. Johnno will be judged on his championships. Or maybe not. I detect a spin machine revving up. Goes something like this. Johnno shows great managerial skill to get Mayo teams to overachieve in the league. Spineless Mayo players let Johnno down in Championship.
Not buying it. If Johnno manages a good championship then he ll get credit.
Quote from: Zulu on April 04, 2010, 09:20:01 PM
Touche! And I will gladly acknowledge his improvement though the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned, he will need to produce championship performances before I am convinced. In saying that, he is performing much better than I thought he would and it is great to see him develop as he is a decent skin and I'd love to see him be part of an AI winning Mayo team. As for JOM, I think he has been doing a good job (like Gilroy in Dublin) with a good, but not outstanding, panel of players and he is simply continuing that good work but isn't getting much credit for it. When Mayo go through a bad patch or lose however lads are never slow to get the digs in.
Dont usually like to be sarcastic Zulu, but I m running out of fingers and toes counting all the super counties with not just good, but outstanding panels of players.
I, for one, have always got digs in before the bad event. And I think I was very restrained in my digs after Meath last year. The stumblin blocks for a probable Mayo demise in championship this year are obvious now. That gives Johnno weeks to work on it. If he addresses those obvious problems then people would appreciate that. Nobody expectiong miracles. Just the best possible.
did i really see some one say apart from meath last year We have seen pretty good Preformances???? Meath was a late laspse in concentration Derry was probably the worst performace i gave seen from a mayo championship team in the last 20 years . including ALL Ireland finals . at least against kerry we lost to the best team since the 1980's against derry we were humiliated by a bunch of also rans, no wonder Pearse hanley got out of here Pronto.
If mayo get to a league Final he will finally get them back to where her found them(providing we get to the AIF as well this year.)
the only occasion that came close for bad performances was the display against sligo under pat holmes and Mayo won the friggin league that year.
A wee bit soon be be even cooking any humble pie yet.
Quote from: moysider on April 05, 2010, 11:56:53 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 04, 2010, 09:20:01 PM
Touche! And I will gladly acknowledge his improvement though the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned, he will need to produce championship performances before I am convinced. In saying that, he is performing much better than I thought he would and it is great to see him develop as he is a decent skin and I'd love to see him be part of an AI winning Mayo team. As for JOM, I think he has been doing a good job (like Gilroy in Dublin) with a good, but not outstanding, panel of players and he is simply continuing that good work but isn't getting much credit for it. When Mayo go through a bad patch or lose however lads are never slow to get the digs in.
Dont usually like to be sarcastic Zulu, but I m running out of fingers and toes counting all the super counties with not just good, but outstanding panels of players.
I, for one, have always got digs in before the bad event. And I think I was very restrained in my digs after Meath last year. The stumblin blocks for a probable Mayo demise in championship this year are obvious now. That gives Johnno weeks to work on it. If he addresses those obvious problems then people would appreciate that. Nobody expectiong miracles. Just the best possible.
And I, for one, think your comments about the Meath match were bang on! My only reservation was when you called for coaching techniques for the players as they were lacking in the basics – or something along those lines. Well, you can't teach an old dog new tricks and with the CVs some of those on show that day have, there is no point in even trying.
By any rational standards, it was pure GUBU all the way and was only matched, in my 50 years experience, by some of the other championships displays since John O'Mahony returned. In the clueless stakes, the manager beat the players by a short head.
I also wasn't expecting miracles, just the best possible and I was, and am, wishing everyone concerned the very best. If it turns out that Johnno has only a clutch of gluggers in the nest, he can't be asked to work miracles. Same goes for the players; they are only amateurs after all and if their best isn't good enough, then so be it.
This year, for me anyway, things are beginning to shape up a bit and I'd like to think that I give team and manager due credit at all times. Winning an All Ireland may well be beyond them this year or any other but all concerned seem to be making progress. There have been plenty of mistakes along the way but the ability and willingness to learn from those mistakes is all-important.
With God's help, we'll see some improvement over previous years in the months ahead.
QuoteI, for one, have given him a little praise, perhaps. Why you believe he deserves credit is not obvious to me.
Because if Mayo were fighting relegation you can be sure many would be calling for his head, you can't knock a manager when things go wrong in the league and then shrug your shoulders and say it's only the league when they go right. Fair is fair.
Quotef we struggle in the championship as you point out we usually do, then Johnno must get the credit he deserves for that as well, right?
I think you can only judge a manager on whether he is getting the most out of the players he has at his disposal and in that respect JOM hasn't done too bad IMO. I'm not sure what I would regard as a good championship for Mayo this year, I think they can and should win Connacht and if they avoid Kerry/Cork in their QF then a SF is a realistic goal. If they achieve that then I think he will have done a very good job.
QuoteAnybody with a smidereen of sense would have done the positive things that have been done this spring.
So if it goes right, anyone would have done it but if it goes wrong we'll blame the manager, seems like a lose lose situation for the manager to me. Mayo had a tough league draw this year and only for some bad kicking would be in the league final with a game to spare, he surely deserves credit for that especially when it was done without Dillon and C Mort initially, and McGarrity or Harte for long periods (and a misfiring A. O'Shea for good measure).
QuoteWe re still tactically innocent and as I ve said in an earlier post players are still required to come up with the answer on the pitch - if they can.
That's a wishy washy criticism for me, what do you mean by that and how would you have them play? From my experience it is very hard to get a team to play to a plan and I know many county teams don't focus on that aspect of their play till after the league so that their card isn't marked from a long way out.
QuoteThe continued absence ot Aidan Higgins from the panel is beyond belief. Looked in great shape at the weekend league game. Pace to burn still. A hardness and an awareness that would be priceless in this panel without seasoned defenders. If he brings him into the panel then he deserves credit for admitting he got it wrong and would be a better man and manager, in my book, if he did so. I wont hold my breath though. Since his second coming in Mayo he has markedly refused to reverse poor decisions. I think he must feel, as a politician, he does nt want to be seen to back down when he s wrong. That he would put his own posture ahead of the county team is a cause for concern imo.
I can't comment on Aidan as I don't see any Mayo club football but it could be he simply doesn't rate him as highly as you and feels he has enough defenders as it is. There will always be one or two players in a county like Mayo that you could make a case for but I don't think Aidan being in the panel is a make or break type decision so it isn't something that is as poor a reflection on JOM as you are making out IMO.
QuoteI would expect Mayo managed by anybody with a clue, would be in a similar position right now. Let alone a manager of about 26 years intercounty experience and a double AI winner.
Again, the you do well and anyone could do it argument, getting into the top 3 of a league containing Kerry, Tyrone, Cork, Galway etc. is an achievement regardless of a managers past record and should be acknowledged by any fair minded fan.
QuoteHe s got a conveyour belt of talent most counties could only dream about. So much so he can discard players while they still have a lot to offer.
I wouldn't agree with that necessarily, Tyrone, Cork and Down have as much or more coming through based on recent underage results, even Dublin have put two U21 Leinsters back to back in the past two years. In fairness Mayo have won Connacht U21 titles but have failed to win AI's on the back of those so the real quality of those teams is debatable.
QuoteJohnno will be judged on his championships. Or maybe not. I detect a spin machine revving up. Goes something like this. Johnno shows great managerial skill to get Mayo teams to overachieve in the league. Spineless Mayo players let Johnno down in Championship.
That's a bit paranoid for me.
QuoteIf Johnno manages a good championship then he ll get credit.
Which would be what?
QuoteDont usually like to be sarcastic Zulu, but I m running out of fingers and toes counting all the super counties with not just good, but outstanding panels of players.
Not sure what you mean by that but I would only rate Cork, Kerry and Tyrone as counties with outstanding panels, and even Tyrone are slipping a bit on that score IMO. I said this last year and i still think it is true, Mayo have a panel of players that could beat any country, bar Cork or Kerry, but are not so strong that counties like Dublin, Galway, Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry, Donegal, Kildare and a few more couldn't beat them.
Quotedid i really see some one say apart from meath last year We have seen pretty good Preformances????
Have you not? The Connacht final was pretty good wasn't it or the QF performance against Tyrone for that matter?
Zulu I respect your opinion and while on a lot of occasions it is beneficial to hear someone with a detached view give their opinion, some of your comments here are very general comment looking at things from a distance and not fully aware of some of the specifics. And I mean that in the best possible sense.
For instance, the Aidan Higgins one is strange to me considering we are so lacking in specialised full-back line players. But, you are right, it is not a huge selection blunder all the same. I could point out some of those but we're best leave them in the past.
Regarding the underage teams, I think you are looking at the success of the teams rather than the individual merits of players in those sides. You can have a very strong team at U-21 level but only two or three good enough to go on to play at Senior. Conversely you could have an-21 team that underachieves yet could produce a high yield of senior players.
Mayo have had successful U-21 teams and we've had plenty of players in there to provide a very good stream for management.
On the basis of the league, so far, John has done very well. That is not in doubt for me. But it comes with the caveat that we don't know where each team is at in terms of their prep for championship. The Kerry players were nowhere near the same pitch as Mayo players in their league clash, for instance. So we are going to be careful to hype up very good league performances. It is, of course, better to play well in the league than not, but they have a habit of being misleading.
We will be able to truly assess how John O'Mahony has done after championship. And what will a good year be, I hear you ask?
Well I'm not going to say a Connacht title, a quarter final or semi-final place or anything like that. Because that would be to look at Mayo in isolation and not leave room for if Mayo get beaten on a day by a very high performing Galway or Kildare or Derry team, for instance.
A good year for me would be Mayo playing close to their potential, not naive about how they line up against the opposition, able for the fight when it comes down to it, fit enought to keep going for 70 minutes and if that isdn't good enough, then I'll take my hat off to the better team.
QuoteRegarding the underage teams, I think you are looking at the success of the teams rather than the individual merits of players in those sides. You can have a very strong team at U-21 level but only two or three good enough to go on to play at Senior. Conversely you could have an-21 team that underachieves yet could produce a high yield of senior players.
Mayo have had successful U-21 teams and we've had plenty of players in there to provide a very good stream for management.
I'd agree with that 100% and I didn't mean to imply that you judge players abilities on the success of the teams they play in, I was just pointing out that a number of counties could have as many good young players coming through as Mayo. I purposefully left Kerry out, which proves your point, they have had very limited success at underage in recent years but they still bring through lads who become good seniors.
I think Mayo have produced some great young players recently but they are quite similar and none of them is a real gem of a scoring forward, a Heslin or Murphy (Carlow) type midfielder or a real quality FB. If you could field 15 attacking wing backs I'm sure Mayo would win most AI's but you can't (as you lads know more than most) and as such I wouldn't be too confident about the future.
QuoteOn the basis of the league, so far, John has done very well. That is not in doubt for me. But it comes with the caveat that we don't know where each team is at in terms of their prep for championship. The Kerry players were nowhere near the same pitch as Mayo players in their league clash, for instance. So we are going to be careful to hype up very good league performances. It is, of course, better to play well in the league than not, but they have a habit of being misleading.
Again I agree, but you can only look after your own game and if your opponents aren't up as well prepared as they should be then what can you do? It should be acknowledge that Mayo were, and are, missing a few players too so they have done well IMO and considering the negativity of Mayo fans prior to the league it wouldn't go amiss for lads to give the management a pat on the back for a job well done.
QuoteWe will be able to truly assess how John O'Mahony has done after championship. And what will a good year be, I hear you ask?
Well I'm not going to say a Connacht title, a quarter final or semi-final place or anything like that. Because that would be to look at Mayo in isolation and not leave room for if Mayo get beaten on a day by a very high performing Galway or Kildare or Derry team, for instance.
A good year for me would be Mayo playing close to their potential, not naive about how they line up against the opposition, able for the fight when it comes down to it, fit enought to keep going for 70 minutes and if that isdn't good enough, then I'll take my hat off to the better team.
Once again, I'm in full agreement. You can't judge a team by what stage of the championship they get to as they might have to play a Kerry or Cork early on (for example) while another county could reach a SF without ever playing a top 4 or 5 opponent. Nevertheless, I think some Mayo posters already have their knives sharpened if Mayo do stumble later on and I don't think that is justified. As you've pointed out Mayo could get beaten by a Galway or Kildare, this isn't something that would happen to Cork or Kerry IMO, so Mayo are very close to too many teams, talentwise, for the manager to be slated if they were to meet and be narrowly beaten by one of those teams.
It often amuses me when I see fans criticize manager after manager before it begins to dawn on them that the players aren't up to much. The only managers that will have definitely failed if they don't lead their team to an AI is Counihan, O'Connor and Harte. I don't think Mayo have an AI in them this year so JOM has to be judged by that standard IMO.
Zulu I don't think tyrone have one in them either this year. I can't see beyond kerry and cork. The likes of dublin, mayo , galway are below this level. Tyrone are just below kerry and cork.
I think mayo need to look at the type of underage players they are developing and start targetting the areas of the senior team where they are weak. My own county could do with the same approach. Mayo need to find one absolute top drawer 1% forward and a full back. In a football mad county like Mayo it should be easy. Could also do with finding another Liam Mc Hale.
Mayo are probably 4 players away from challenging the top 2. Its not that far. Supporters are too gloomy at times. I think they are in a far better place then Dublin are at present.
Quote from: Zulu on April 06, 2010, 09:25:19 PM
Once again, I'm in full agreement. You can't judge a team by what stage of the championship they get to as they might have to play a Kerry or Cork early on (for example) while another county could reach a SF without ever playing a top 4 or 5 opponent. Nevertheless, I think some Mayo posters already have their knives sharpened if Mayo do stumble later on and I don't think that is justified. As you've pointed out Mayo could get beaten by a Galway or Kildare, this isn't something that would happen to Cork or Kerry IMO, so Mayo are very close to too many teams, talentwise, for the manager to be slated if they were to meet and be narrowly beaten by one of those teams.
It often amuses me when I see fans criticize manager after manager before it begins to dawn on them that the players aren't up to much. The only managers that will have definitely failed if they don't lead their team to an AI is Counihan, O'Connor and Harte. I don't think Mayo have an AI in them this year so JOM has to be judged by that standard IMO.
My point is not where and who we lose to, but how we lose. That will be what will dictate my analysis of the year. I don't know about knives being sharpened. We had a terrible 2007 championship, a good 2008 and what looked like a good 2009 after the Connacht final but ended up as a poor enough year because of the collapse against Meath. I personally think we have underachieved so far under John O'Mahony but am willing to be patient (not that there's much of a choice!).
As regards how things might go this year, I actually think Mayo would be capable of beating Kerry or Tyrone in the championship. As would a lot of other teams - and hence the amount of tams who will feel they can beat Mayo is not that low. But Cork are out on their own in my humble opinion.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 06, 2010, 09:33:57 PM
Zulu I don't think tyrone have one in them either this year. I can't see beyond kerry and cork. The likes of dublin, mayo , galway are below this level. Tyrone are just below kerry and cork.
I think mayo need to look at the type of underage players they are developing and start targetting the areas of the senior team where they are weak. My own county could do with the same approach. Mayo need to find one absolute top drawer 1% forward and a full back. In a football mad county like Mayo it should be easy. Could also do with finding another Liam Mc Hale.
Mayo are probably 4 players away from challenging the top 2. Its not that far. Supporters are too gloomy at times. I think they are in a far better place then Dublin are at present.
Not sure you can do that to a 16-year old Indy. 'We need a corner forward so put our star midfieldr inside and try to make an O'Neill out of him'. Could ruin more players than players you'd make.
QuoteMayo are probably 4 players away from challenging the top 2. Its not that far. Supporters are too gloomy at times. I think they are in a far better place then Dublin are at present.
I agree with that but I think you are a bit too gloomy in the capital too. Gilroy is another coach going about his business pretty well IMO but that's for another thread.
QuoteMy point is not where and who we lose to, but how we lose. That will be what will dictate my analysis of the year.
Yep, that is the only way to properly judge how a team have developed but I think Mayo are going in theright direction but, as Indiana points out, are short a few players.
QuoteI don't know about knives being sharpened. We had a terrible 2007 championship, a good 2008 and what looked like a good 2009 after the Connacht final but ended up as a poor enough year because of the collapse against Meath. I personally think we have underachieved so far under John O'Mahony but am willing to be patient (not that there's much of a choice!).
That's my point R&GS, developing a team is a process and even when you are doing everything right it isn't always a smooth upward development but I like the way Mayo are going. It is easy for supporters to say we need a FB, midfielder or whatever but they aren't always about and a coach can't always find the solution to the problems that exist if the players aren't there.
QuoteAs regards how things might go this year, I actually think Mayo would be capable of beating Kerry or Tyrone in the championship. As would a lot of other teams - and hence the amount of tams who will feel they can beat Mayo is not that low. But Cork are out on their own in my humble opinion
I agree once more but I've got watch what I say about Cork at this stage, if Cork was a female movie star the authorities would be keeping a close eye on me such has been my enthusiasm for their football!!
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 06, 2010, 09:45:14 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 06, 2010, 09:33:57 PM
Zulu I don't think tyrone have one in them either this year. I can't see beyond kerry and cork. The likes of dublin, mayo , galway are below this level. Tyrone are just below kerry and cork.
I think mayo need to look at the type of underage players they are developing and start targetting the areas of the senior team where they are weak. My own county could do with the same approach. Mayo need to find one absolute top drawer 1% forward and a full back. In a football mad county like Mayo it should be easy. Could also do with finding another Liam Mc Hale.
Mayo are probably 4 players away from challenging the top 2. Its not that far. Supporters are too gloomy at times. I think they are in a far better place then Dublin are at present.
Not sure you can do that to a 16-year old Indy. 'We need a corner forward so put our star midfieldr inside and try to make an O'Neill out of him'. Could ruin more players than players you'd make.
Thats not what I mean at all. I mean actively coaching guys playing in those areas and perhaps casting the net wider then you are and looking for a different type of player. The type of player who may be good at 20 rather than 17.
QuoteI don't think Mayo have an AI in them this year so JOM has to be judged by that standard IMO.
Classic Omahony type defence keep expectation as low as possible then try and and boost any win as a hige bonus.
Few other counties have had the patience of mayo with a manger that so far has taken the team back years .
you ask what makes a good season. Very simple this year a creditable performance in an AllIreland Final which wa the only thing lacking in the team he took over. he is now there ;ong enough to have made a team in his own image . and championship wise so far it has been Ugly.
While I have high hope for mayo to win the league. it will count for little as it will be probaly 3 months before mayo have a serious Championship game. while mayo team may not change that much till then everyone else will have.
Mayo have plenty of players to win Sam . there isnt a team in the country who have 15 excellent players and mayo have at least 12 with maybe 10 pretty decent ones.
No excuses now or never.(until next year)
QuoteBut his failure over the years not to take the full back problem seriously is probably going to come back to haunt us again
Is there a top quality FB knocking about the county that isn't in the panel??????
QuoteMayo have plenty of players to win Sam
Eh.........we have plenty of players alright........not good enough to win Sam at the minute though.....
Quote from: INDIANA on April 06, 2010, 09:59:36 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 06, 2010, 09:45:14 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 06, 2010, 09:33:57 PM
Zulu I don't think tyrone have one in them either this year. I can't see beyond kerry and cork. The likes of dublin, mayo , galway are below this level. Tyrone are just below kerry and cork.
I think mayo need to look at the type of underage players they are developing and start targetting the areas of the senior team where they are weak. My own county could do with the same approach. Mayo need to find one absolute top drawer 1% forward and a full back. In a football mad county like Mayo it should be easy. Could also do with finding another Liam Mc Hale.
Mayo are probably 4 players away from challenging the top 2. Its not that far. Supporters are too gloomy at times. I think they are in a far better place then Dublin are at present.
Not sure you can do that to a 16-year old Indy. 'We need a corner forward so put our star midfieldr inside and try to make an O'Neill out of him'. Could ruin more players than players you'd make.
Thats not what I mean at all. I mean actively coaching guys playing in those areas and perhaps casting the net wider then you are and looking for a different type of player. The type of player who may be good at 20 rather than 17.
Fair enough. But that would require a coherent coaching structure, where senior, Under 21, Minor, U-16 and Devopment coaches work together with the County Board in a united front. That has never happened in Mayo and doesn't look like it will start soon either.
The division between Zulu and most of the Mayo posters here has to do with what constitutes a good year for Mayo. As far as Zulu is concerned,
Quote from: Zulu on April 06, 2010, 06:02:47 PM
... they can and should win Connacht and if they avoid Kerry/Cork in their QF then a SF is a realistic goal. If they achieve that then I think he will have done a very good job.
Which is grand, if you're not from Mayo and don't live and die with the green and red. Mayo people think Sam, which people outside Mayo think this is a ridiculous ambition. Who do they think they are, sitting there among bog and heather and dreaming of sitting at the top table?
But people in Mayo think we were seventy minutes away in 2006, 2004, 1997 and only minutes from the damn thing in 1996, so that's what we're basing the ambition on. When you're so close to something that you can nearly reach out and touch it - well, it leaves a certain want when you don't close the deal. A certain longing. A constant craving, as k.d. lang put it.
But this isn't really registering with Zulu, not because of any fault in the man, because he's looking in from the outside. Zulu will have watched that capitulation against Meath and shrugged. Can you remember what you thought about that game Zulu? You might have thought bit unlucky, Kilcoyne injured, hop of a ball, whatever. Or maybe you thought lots of things. I don't know.
But once you had drawn your conclusions, would you then have gone off and had your tea and maybe cut the grass and watched a few episodes of The Wire and did some posting on GAABoard.com?
With respect Zulu, that's not what we did in Mayo. We tore our hair out in chunks about how a team that were - sorry Hardy and the Meath boys - dead men walking at four o'clock and who had turned into the Harlem Globetrotters by half-five. We didn't like it, and still don't. I got one of the most bitter text messages I ever got after that game. It hurt. It still hurts. And we want to know whose damn fault it is that we're hurting.
John Maughan gets cursed at home over the Dermot Flanagan substitution in 1997. Nobody ever says well, Flanagan got injured, no wonder Mayo lost. But they do say well, Kilcoyne was injured, what chance had Mayo then about that game against Meath last year. Johnno gets a softer ride in terms of current analysis because of what he did in Galway, and that's given him more rope than other men have got. The analysis is not always based on his current body of work.
So what constitutes a good year for Mayo? Mayo could have a good year and not win a game. They could lose in Sligo or else to a Galway revival and then end up away against Cork/Kerry or some Northern power and still lose.
It's a knockout Championship. There have been teams that have got to a semi and never been as good before or since. Distance in Championship isn't always a true measure. People say of Mayo in our All-Ireland final years that we over-achieved. We would argue that we were serial over-achievers though, and that the potential for Championship is there if only we could unlock the key. Sisyphus rolling that boulder is only trotting after us.
We know that the luck can be against you too, as it was in 1996 (in both games, thanks to Pat McEneany's noble admission last year, for which he deserves thanks) and 1998. It's a knockout Championship. Bodies of work don't count. It's all about making it happen on the day. We just have to be sure that the Mayo team is performing as well as it can. And if that means we sound harsh on Johnno, well, tough. We're pretty harsh on ourselves too.
But that doesn't mean we'll go playing rugger either, of course. Up Mayo.
Quote from: Zulu on April 06, 2010, 09:55:48 PM
QuoteMayo are probably 4 players away from challenging the top 2. Its not that far. Supporters are too gloomy at times. I think they are in a far better place then Dublin are at present.
I agree with that but I think you are a bit too gloomy in the capital too. Gilroy is another coach going about his business pretty well IMO but that's for another thread.
QuoteMy point is not where and who we lose to, but how we lose. That will be what will dictate my analysis of the year.
Yep, that is the only way to properly judge how a team have developed but I think Mayo are going in theright direction but, as Indiana points out, are short a few players.
QuoteI don't know about knives being sharpened. We had a terrible 2007 championship, a good 2008 and what looked like a good 2009 after the Connacht final but ended up as a poor enough year because of the collapse against Meath. I personally think we have underachieved so far under John O'Mahony but am willing to be patient (not that there's much of a choice!).
That's my point R&GS, developing a team is a process and even when you are doing everything right it isn't always a smooth upward development but I like the way Mayo are going. It is easy for supporters to say we need a FB, midfielder or whatever but they aren't always about and a coach can't always find the solution to the problems that exist if the players aren't there.
QuoteAs regards how things might go this year, I actually think Mayo would be capable of beating Kerry or Tyrone in the championship. As would a lot of other teams - and hence the amount of tams who will feel they can beat Mayo is not that low. But Cork are out on their own in my humble opinion
I agree once more but I've got watch what I say about Cork at this stage, if Cork was a female movie star the authorities would be keeping a close eye on me such has been my enthusiasm for their football!!
Yeah I'm with you on Cork! Dangerously attractive football they're playing. . I look forward to seeing how we measure up.
I take your point on not always having the players available but I fel we have had them at mdifield. In my opinion Kieran Conroy, James Kilcullen and Seamus O'Shea have all been options to play a physical role beside McGarrity and/or Parsons. But its only this year that any of them have been given that scope and I still can't say with certainly that they midfield pairing won't be Parsons and McGarrity for championshiop. They re too similar and while it may work with S O'Shea coming back from the half-forward line, I don't think that's the best use of our resources.
Full-back remains a problem. MacDanger is right, every decent full-back at club level is in the panel.
O'Shea got injured too.
QuoteClassic Omahony type defence keep expectation as low as possible then try and and boost any win as a hige bonus.
Every manager in the country attempts to dampen expectations so I don't see how that is classic JOM. And if saying a county hasn't an AI in them this year is keeping expectations low then all bar 2 or 3 counties should have low expectations.
QuoteFew other counties have had the patience of mayo with a manger that so far has taken the team back years .
Back from where, humiliating AI defeats? I don't think any rational football observer would have ranked Mayo any higher than 4th or 5th in the country over the past 3 years and you could make a strong arguement that they've been 7th or 8th so AI QF defeats to Derry, Tyrone and Meath isn't a disaster, though I do think the Meath defeat was poor.
Quoteyou ask what makes a good season. Very simple this year a creditable performance in an AllIreland Final which wa the only thing lacking in the team he took over. he is now there ;ong enough to have made a team in his own image . and championship wise so far it has been Ugly.
See R&GS for a bit of reasonable analysis, who wants a credible performance in an AI, if you get there winning it is all that should matter.
QuoteWhile I have high hope for mayo to win the league. it will count for little as it will be probaly 3 months before mayo have a serious Championship game. while mayo team may not change that much till then everyone else will have.
Kerry and Tyrone will have some noteable changes but Dublin, Cork, Galway, Monaghan and many more will be using many of the same players they used in the league.
Quotethere isnt a team in the country who have 15 excellent players and mayo have at least 12
Will you stop FFS. If Mayo had 12 excellent players they'd be AI favourites, Cork don't have 12 excellent players let alone Mayo. Some very good players yes, but only Dillon would be a nailed on brilliant IC footballer for me.
Maith an fear Iolar, fine post.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 06, 2010, 10:32:42 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 06, 2010, 09:59:36 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 06, 2010, 09:45:14 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 06, 2010, 09:33:57 PM
Zulu I don't think tyrone have one in them either this year. I can't see beyond kerry and cork. The likes of dublin, mayo , galway are below this level. Tyrone are just below kerry and cork.
I think mayo need to look at the type of underage players they are developing and start targetting the areas of the senior team where they are weak. My own county could do with the same approach. Mayo need to find one absolute top drawer 1% forward and a full back. In a football mad county like Mayo it should be easy. Could also do with finding another Liam Mc Hale.
Mayo are probably 4 players away from challenging the top 2. Its not that far. Supporters are too gloomy at times. I think they are in a far better place then Dublin are at present.
Not sure you can do that to a 16-year old Indy. 'We need a corner forward so put our star midfieldr inside and try to make an O'Neill out of him'. Could ruin more players than players you'd make.
Thats not what I mean at all. I mean actively coaching guys playing in those areas and perhaps casting the net wider then you are and looking for a different type of player. The type of player who may be good at 20 rather than 17.
Fair enough. But that would require a coherent coaching structure, where senior, Under 21, Minor, U-16 and Devopment coaches work together with the County Board in a united front. That has never happened in Mayo and doesn't look like it will start soon either.
Doesn't happen in Dublin either but it does up the North and thats the difference. Cork through sheer weight of numbers get players through. it certainly isn't by design. Kerry just produce naturals.
For example Dublin have an enormous problem at midfield going right back through the system and nothing has been done to change it.
Gaelic Football is huge in Mayo and I think directing your development structures in the areas where your senior team is weak would raise big dividends down the line.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 06, 2010, 10:34:05 PM
The division between Zulu and most of the Mayo posters here has to do with what constitutes a good year for Mayo. As far as Zulu is concerned,
Quote from: Zulu on April 06, 2010, 06:02:47 PM
... they can and should win Connacht and if they avoid Kerry/Cork in their QF then a SF is a realistic goal. If they achieve that then I think he will have done a very good job.
Which is grand, if you're not from Mayo and don't live and die with the green and red. Mayo people think Sam, which people outside Mayo think this is a ridiculous ambition. Who do they think they are, sitting there among bog and heather and dreaming of sitting at the top table?
But people in Mayo think we were seventy minutes away in 2006, 2004, 1997 and only minutes from the damn thing in 1996, so that's what we're basing the ambition on. When you're so close to something that you can nearly reach out and touch it - well, it leaves a certain want when you don't close the deal. A certain longing. A constant craving, as k.d. lang put it.
But this isn't really registering with Zulu, not because of any fault in the man, because he's looking in from the outside. Zulu will have watched that capitulation against Meath and shrugged. Can you remember what you thought about that game Zulu? You might have thought bit unlucky, Kilcoyne injured, hop of a ball, whatever. Or maybe you thought lots of things. I don't know.
But once you had drawn your conclusions, would you then have gone off and had your tea and maybe cut the grass and watched a few episodes of The Wire and did some posting on GAABoard.com?
With respect Zulu, that's not what we did in Mayo. We tore our hair out in chunks about how a team that were - sorry Hardy and the Meath boys - dead men walking at four o'clock and who had turned into the Harlem Globetrotters by half-five. We didn't like it, and still don't. I got one of the most bitter text messages I ever got after that game. It hurt. It still hurts. And we want to know whose damn fault it is that we're hurting.
John Maughan gets cursed at home over the Dermot Flanagan substitution in 1997. Nobody ever says well, Flanagan got injured, no wonder Mayo lost. But they do say well, Kilcoyne was injured, what chance had Mayo then about that game against Meath last year. Johnno gets a softer ride in terms of current analysis because of what he did in Galway, and that's given him more rope than other men have got. The analysis is not always based on his current body of work.
So what constitutes a good year for Mayo? Mayo could have a good year and not win a game. They could lose in Sligo or else to a Galway revival and then end up away against Cork/Kerry or some Northern power and still lose.
It's a knockout Championship. There have been teams that have got to a semi and never been as good before or since. Distance in Championship isn't always a true measure. People say of Mayo in our All-Ireland final years that we over-achieved. We would argue that we were serial over-achievers though, and that the potential for Championship is there if only we could unlock the key. Sisyphus rolling that boulder is only trotting after us.
We know that the luck can be against you too, as it was in 1996 (in both games, thanks to Pat McEneany's noble admission last year, for which he deserves thanks) and 1998. It's a knockout Championship. Bodies of work don't count. It's all about making it happen on the day. We just have to be sure that the Mayo team is performing as well as it can. And if that means we sound harsh on Johnno, well, tough. We're pretty harsh on ourselves too.
But that doesn't mean we'll go playing rugger either, of course. Up Mayo.
Although I'm not from Mayo Iolar, I do feel your pain and I don't know why but I almost feel like a Mayo man when it comes to your football so I don't simply brush off Mayo defeats as I might those of other counties I'd like to see do well. Don't ask me to explain it because I can't, there's just something about Mayo football that's intoxicating (there I go again if it isn't the current Cork footballers it's bloody Mayo football).
Although I can't fully appreciate what it's like for Mayo people I do think that Mayo folk are going to have to be a bit more realistic and patient if they are going to see their dreams come to pass. Getting rid of JOM won't solve anything, regardless of championship results, because if you do, the process starts again. New man, new ideas and a pressure to 'change' things often leads to the baby going out with the bathwater.
I'm not saying Mayo fans shouldn't dream and some self confidence never hurt anyone but it has to be matched by realistic evaluations of your players, which I think is a little bit lacking.
Quote from: Zulu on April 06, 2010, 06:02:47 PM
QuoteI, for one, have given him a little praise, perhaps. Why you believe he deserves credit is not obvious to me.
Because if Mayo were fighting relegation you can be sure many would be calling for his head, you can't knock a manager when things go wrong in the league and then shrug your shoulders and say it's only the league when they go right. Fair is fair.
Quotef we struggle in the championship as you point out we usually do, then Johnno must get the credit he deserves for that as well, right?
I think you can only judge a manager on whether he is getting the most out of the players he has at his disposal and in that respect JOM hasn't done too bad IMO. I'm not sure what I would regard as a good championship for Mayo this year, I think they can and should win Connacht and if they avoid Kerry/Cork in their QF then a SF is a realistic goal. If they achieve that then I think he will have done a very good job.
QuoteAnybody with a smidereen of sense would have done the positive things that have been done this spring.
So if it goes right, anyone would have done it but if it goes wrong we'll blame the manager, seems like a lose lose situation for the manager to me. Mayo had a tough league draw this year and only for some bad kicking would be in the league final with a game to spare, he surely deserves credit for that especially when it was done without Dillon and C Mort initially, and McGarrity or Harte for long periods (and a misfiring A. O'Shea for good measure).
QuoteWe re still tactically innocent and as I ve said in an earlier post players are still required to come up with the answer on the pitch - if they can.
That's a wishy washy criticism for me, what do you mean by that and how would you have them play? From my experience it is very hard to get a team to play to a plan and I know many county teams don't focus on that aspect of their play till after the league so that their card isn't marked from a long way out.
QuoteThe continued absence ot Aidan Higgins from the panel is beyond belief. Looked in great shape at the weekend league game. Pace to burn still. A hardness and an awareness that would be priceless in this panel without seasoned defenders. If he brings him into the panel then he deserves credit for admitting he got it wrong and would be a better man and manager, in my book, if he did so. I wont hold my breath though. Since his second coming in Mayo he has markedly refused to reverse poor decisions. I think he must feel, as a politician, he does nt want to be seen to back down when he s wrong. That he would put his own posture ahead of the county team is a cause for concern imo.
I can't comment on Aidan as I don't see any Mayo club football but it could be he simply doesn't rate him as highly as you and feels he has enough defenders as it is. There will always be one or two players in a county like Mayo that you could make a case for but I don't think Aidan being in the panel is a make or break type decision so it isn't something that is as poor a reflection on JOM as you are making out IMO.
QuoteI would expect Mayo managed by anybody with a clue, would be in a similar position right now. Let alone a manager of about 26 years intercounty experience and a double AI winner.
Again, the you do well and anyone could do it argument, getting into the top 3 of a league containing Kerry, Tyrone, Cork, Galway etc. is an achievement regardless of a managers past record and should be acknowledged by any fair minded fan.
QuoteHe s got a conveyour belt of talent most counties could only dream about. So much so he can discard players while they still have a lot to offer.
I wouldn't agree with that necessarily, Tyrone, Cork and Down have as much or more coming through based on recent underage results, even Dublin have put two U21 Leinsters back to back in the past two years. In fairness Mayo have won Connacht U21 titles but have failed to win AI's on the back of those so the real quality of those teams is debatable.
QuoteJohnno will be judged on his championships. Or maybe not. I detect a spin machine revving up. Goes something like this. Johnno shows great managerial skill to get Mayo teams to overachieve in the league. Spineless Mayo players let Johnno down in Championship.
That's a bit paranoid for me.
QuoteIf Johnno manages a good championship then he ll get credit.
Which would be what?
QuoteDont usually like to be sarcastic Zulu, but I m running out of fingers and toes counting all the super counties with not just good, but outstanding panels of players.
Not sure what you mean by that but I would only rate Cork, Kerry and Tyrone as counties with outstanding panels, and even Tyrone are slipping a bit on that score IMO. I said this last year and i still think it is true, Mayo have a panel of players that could beat any country, bar Cork or Kerry, but are not so strong that counties like Dublin, Galway, Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry, Donegal, Kildare and a few more couldn't beat them.
Quotedid i really see some one say apart from meath last year We have seen pretty good Preformances????
Have you not? The Connacht final was pretty good wasn't it or the QF performance against Tyrone for that matter?
Just a few things. First of all I dont think anybody was going to look into this league too much.The touchstone performances for this team and management were the Galway and Meath games last Championship. Nice leagu e so far for the form of Clarke, McL,Vaughan, Andy and more. The revival of Parsons( one player that managemant did not get best out of last year). McGar looks to have more drive this year. And of course the emergence of Varley and Ó Sé. These are important but now managemant must translate this potential into a Championship team. So far the players have shown that they can mix in a league where a lot of stuff is off the cuff. Mayo players have the quality to thrive in this environment. But in a more tactical championship is where the better managers give their their team an edge and now Johnno needs to show he has it in the Harte/Kernan/O Connor era. He s not sparring with Paudi now - except in print.
When I mentioned tactical innocence I was referring to a specific observation I made in another thread. Far from being wishy washy it was very specific. I wasn't so much worried about how we go about things as much as how we respond to others set up. We only found out how to play Monaghan as they game progressed. The players did not look prepared for how Monaghan play - even though they had already struggled against a similar situation v Dublin. We always do well even against the best Galway teams because the players are familiar with each others games and ways but when we go outside of Connacht we re usually not clued into the opposition. Like Meath last year and the ridiculous Joe Sheridan scenario. Management must do better sussing out opposition and get match ups and tactics better than has usually been the case in Mayo. You mention that several teams can beat Mayo in the championship. That of course is true. If we have to play Monaghan in August I wouldn't be bullish about beating them even though I wouldn't take many of their players. 5 maybe. Still I know they have the ability to out think and out fight us. That is where Johnno must earn his credits. To deliver on potential he needs to put distance between Mayo and the Donegals, Kildare,Meath, Monaghans etc.
The Aidan Higgins ommission is huge. Would have made the difference last year v Meath for one thing. It was a break decision last year and will be again I fear as we struggle to find a fb line.Johnno may feel he has enough defenders. Numbers yes but most can't defend. Higgins can and is a cool head and a leader. That s stuff we dont have. We ve lost crucial matches because likes of Mac and now Higgins were left out before natural successors emerged.
You pretty much confirmed up my fingers and toes sarcasm. You have named 3 teams with very strong panels. I wouldn't fawn over Cork yet while some of Kerry and Tyrone second tier players look very ordinary and even seasoned players like Tom O Sullivan look decidedly uncomfortable without the likes of Tomás, Dara and McCarty around. But Kerry still have about 8 elite players and nobody else can match that. I m talking about Tomás, Marc, Declan Ó Sull, Galvin, Gooch, Donaghy and McCarty if he comes back. But they ve lost some giants from last year in Dara, Kennelly, Murphy, Walsh and maybe McCarty. Also very few counties have as much coming through. Even though we went out early U21 this year there was still certain senior players in the team. But there was no midfield so.... Minor as well has a few A listers regardless how far they progress. Check out Mayo colleges performances this year. Senior A league and championship winners. 3 mayo schools in the provincial semis.
I might be paranoid but that does nt mean I m not right. Punters like stars and Johnno is a messiah for many people and there has been a clear flavour of ' Mayo God help us, if O Mahoney cant do anything with them then....'
As regards what a successful Summer would be? The season still has to pan out but I suspect that you are pigeon- holing us before a ball is kicked. If Kerry and Cork are as good as we fear they might then yeah they would probably be too big an ask. If we give ourselves a chance againt these by clever selection/match-ups/ tactics we could nt ask for more. However if we implode and self-destruct again against teams we were clearly better than like Galway( ok I know we fell over the line but it was a horror show in last quarter and the writing was on the wall. Problems not addressed either) and Meath last year, then that wont be accectable. If we lose to Sligo and pull ourselves together and get to a semi or final through the back door, then that will be accectable too - as long as we re beaten by a better team after doing our best.
All pretty reasonable Moysider, even if hard to read (paragraphs and spacing needed ;)) However I'd still disagree on one or two things;
QuoteThe Aidan Higgins ommission is huge. Would have made the difference last year v Meath for one thing. It was a break decision last year and will be again I fear as we struggle to find a fb line.Johnno may feel he has enough defenders. Numbers yes but most can't defend. Higgins can and is a cool head and a leader.
Like I said I don't see Mayo club football but I have seen a good bit of Aidan Higgins over the years from his college days through and I don't rate him as highly as you and I don't think he'd bring a huge amount to the party. I think he probably should be on the panel but I don't feel he is a major point of contention. I also remember AOM being used as a stick to beat Maughan with yet when he got his chance Maughans judgement of him was proved right. There's always one or two boarderline players, I can't agree that Higgins is anymore than that.
QuoteYou pretty much confirmed up my fingers and toes sarcasm. You have named 3 teams with very strong panels. I wouldn't fawn over Cork yet while some of Kerry and Tyrone second tier players look very ordinary
Cork are the real deal, believe me and they've better players still to mature and come in. As for Kerry and Tyrone I feel both are mentally stronger than Mayo and have the firepower and bit of real class Mayo don't have - Gooch Declan O'Sull, SON, Sean Cavanagh for example. I do think both will be weaker than they have been in the past few years but Mayo don't have a Gormley, Tomas or Marc O'Se in the backs or a Gooch Declan O'Sull, SON, Sean Cavanagh up front and that's why I feel they'd lose to these teams in CP.
QuoteThe season still has to pan out but I suspect that you are pigeon- holing us before a ball is kicked.
Like I say, there'd be no happier non-Mayo man than myself if (when) Mayo win an AI but I think some of the Mayo posters have been unduly harsh on JOM and are a bit unrealistic about the quality of player available to them. I certainly hope we are both proved wrong and JOM proves he has what you fear he lacks and the players prove more capable than I'm giving them credit for but we'll find out shortly I suppose.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 06, 2010, 09:59:36 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 06, 2010, 09:45:14 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 06, 2010, 09:33:57 PM
Zulu I don't think tyrone have one in them either this year. I can't see beyond kerry and cork. The likes of dublin, mayo , galway are below this level. Tyrone are just below kerry and cork.
I think mayo need to look at the type of underage players they are developing and start targetting the areas of the senior team where they are weak. My own county could do with the same approach. Mayo need to find one absolute top drawer 1% forward and a full back. In a football mad county like Mayo it should be easy. Could also do with finding another Liam Mc Hale.
Mayo are probably 4 players away from challenging the top 2. Its not that far. Supporters are too gloomy at times. I think they are in a far better place then Dublin are at present.
Not sure you can do that to a 16-year old Indy. 'We need a corner forward so put our star midfieldr inside and try to make an O'Neill out of him'. Could ruin more players than players you'd make.
Thats not what I mean at all. I mean actively coaching guys playing in those areas and perhaps casting the net wider then you are and looking for a different type of player. The type of player who may be good at 20 rather than 17.
I know what you re saying Indiana but you would need some crystal ball to see the awkward, gangly 17yr old as a future Liam McHale or Darren Fay. They just usually end up as junior midfielders no matter what you do with them. McHale, Brady, Harte or McGarrity famously never played county minor but should have and would have been better for it if they had. The fact that they didn't is down to selection policy and wouldnt happen now thankfully. Harte was left out when he was clearly the best minor midfielder around but selection was regional based with each regional selector given the option of picking 1 midfielder. The north selector picked a player from his own club and so avoided the pitchforks and torches.
Most of this years minor team will come from 4 or 5 schools. These guys have been developing at a level above club football since early teens and have good habits ingrained since early 12/13. There are no rough diamonds out there to be discovered, believe me. A natural full back or a McHale is a matter of chance unfortunately. But county managers in Mayo are getting a lot of material to bring on. They cant expect alll the work be done for them. A bit of coaching wouldn't go astray.
Lads, in all fairness what constitutes a good summer in Mayo football terms is as Iolar put it in his extremely well put post is SAM. Nothing less comes close. And that failing at the last hurdle 5 times over the last 20 yrs just makes the thought of actually winning one even more exciting, or would it be relief to some of the older posters??? But every year that we end up losing in the champoinship we do tear our hair out...
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 06, 2010, 10:31:21 PM
QuoteBut his failure over the years not to take the full back problem seriously is probably going to come back to haunt us again
Is there a top quality FB knocking about the county that isn't in the panel??????
QuoteMayo have plenty of players to win Sam
Eh.........we have plenty of players alright........not good enough to win Sam at the minute though.....
As regards the full back thing the answer is no. That s why it should have been taken seriously. Caff was never going to be serious fb for obvious so why persist there? Because he had played there underage? That s just lazy, or even worse, rank poor judgement. Ballina dont even rate him no1 fb. Probably 3rd or 4th choice all being fit and well. However the last day he looked like he might be able to play 2 very well. Kerry and Tyrone has shown it is possible to relocate bigger men and make them full back - I m thinking about Griffin and McCarty recent years and McMahon and McAnallen. Johnno tried it with Conroy but was not an established player and just didnt have the radar for it either. A lot of the best club players out there play midfield but only 2 can play for the county in midfield. One of those lads could be the answer if anybody is looking hard enough. It s unlikely you ll find a club player wearing 3 able for it.
Quote from: Zulu on April 06, 2010, 11:39:33 PM
All pretty reasonable Moysider, even if hard to read (paragraphs and spacing needed ;)) However I'd still disagree on one or two things;
QuoteThe Aidan Higgins ommission is huge. Would have made the difference last year v Meath for one thing. It was a break decision last year and will be again I fear as we struggle to find a fb line.Johnno may feel he has enough defenders. Numbers yes but most can't defend. Higgins can and is a cool head and a leader.
Like I said I don't see Mayo club football but I have seen a good bit of Aidan Higgins over the years from his college days through and I don't rate him as highly as you and I don't think he'd bring a huge amount to the party. I think he probably should be on the panel but I don't feel he is a major point of contention. I also remember AOM being used as a stick to beat Maughan with yet when he got his chance Maughans judgement of him was proved right. There's always one or two boarderline players, I can't agree that Higgins is anymore than that.
QuoteYou pretty much confirmed up my fingers and toes sarcasm. You have named 3 teams with very strong panels. I wouldn't fawn over Cork yet while some of Kerry and Tyrone second tier players look very ordinary
Cork are the real deal, believe me and they've better players still to mature and come in. As for Kerry and Tyrone I feel both are mentally stronger than Mayo and have the firepower and bit of real class Mayo don't have - Gooch Declan O'Sull, SON, Sean Cavanagh for example. I do think both will be weaker than they have been in the past few years but Mayo don't have a Gormley, Tomas or Marc O'Se in the backs or a Gooch Declan O'Sull, SON, Sean Cavanagh up front and that's why I feel they'd lose to these teams in CP.
QuoteThe season still has to pan out but I suspect that you are pigeon- holing us before a ball is kicked.
Like I say, there'd be no happier non-Mayo man than myself if (when) Mayo win an AI but I think some of the Mayo posters have been unduly harsh on JOM and are a bit unrealistic about the quality of player available to them. I certainly hope we are both proved wrong and JOM proves he has what you fear he lacks and the players prove more capable than I'm giving them credit for but we'll find out shortly I suppose.
Apologies about the typing but I was belting stuff out as I m spending too much time on this board. Also cant do the fancy editing with quotes that you and Indiana seem to have mastered.
I just cant let the Higgins thing go. It s not like the poor Austy situation at all. Only 10 year olds took that seriously. Nice fella but .... Crazy thing is Johnno carried him along for 3 years as well and is still fond of carrying baggage. There are at least 4 in the panel that wont play Championship football this year or any year.
I know Aidan is no Marc O Sé but he s as good as it gets for us. Most of our backs are a ball of nerves. Aidan was a kid in 99 and a bit exposed. Now he s a mature confident player and out in the cold. Only Keith Higgins plays with the type of confidence you need but does make blunders. Likes of Vaughan, McLoughlin, Caff, Howley need a bit of steadiness around - something likes of Gardiner cannot provide. Only Clarkie and Keith are giving us that steadiness and it wont be enough. I would have Aidan as one of my first picks on the team with Keith, Clarkie and Dillon and work from there.
I d be inclined to agree about Cork being the real deal - most of the time. But they weren't last September were they. What McCarty and Tomás did to O Neill and Kerrigan should have been censored for kids. Corks capitulations in AI finals v Kerry almost as bad as ours. Worse in fact because they can beat them a few months earlier and then.... bam. Cork are on intimate terms with Kerry so there s no excuse for their beatings while in our case you could make 'going into unknown territory' excuse. Cork/Kerry is like a Mayo/Galway game and Mayo/Galway is not as fickle as that.
Right now Tyrone and Kerry have proven quality that likes of us don't. But nothing stays the same. Block was a nobody until he made that block. It s up to Johnno to try and get these players to take that push on more. Those quality players you mention have been the best last no. of years but things change. I would nt beat myself up about winning Sam this year. I ve survived many a year without Sam. But I want to see structure, shape, form, power, ambition, tactical astuteness, smart selection, heart, endeavour, fortitude, cunning, ruthlessness, etc. That would indicate that we re going in the right direction and that if we re the best team some year we might win it, rather than just hoping to win it sometime. Dont think I m asking for too much. Just good practice.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 06, 2010, 11:46:53 PM
Lads, in all fairness what constitutes a good summer in Mayo football terms is as Iolar put it in his extremely well put post is SAM. Nothing less comes close. And that failing at the last hurdle 5 times over the last 20 yrs just makes the thought of actually winning one even more exciting, or would it be relief to some of the older posters??? But every year that we end up losing in the champoinship we do tear our hair out...
For me it would have been relief in 96. No kidding. Ok 'only' saw us lose 89 before but the soft capitulations of talented teams in years like 86 and 97 and 90 and 91 were hard to take. Then there were the horror shows like 82 in Tuam and of course 92,93 and 94 to Donegal, Cork and Leitrim. I d have taken your hand off for a win in 96.
I believed we would win in 97 and still believe we should have. I ll never forget pickin up mid west drivin through Meath and the late Willie The Shoe pulling the plug early on his programme. He was too depressed to continue.
04 and 06 were numbness for me. Couldn't convince myself beforehand we had any hope but had to sit through it anyway. I could only compare it to watching somebody hack your kids to death and you have to sit and watch it. And worse, you knew it was goin to happen for weeks in advance but nobody could or would do anything about it. That s why I m still iffy about this new look league Mayo. Seasoned coaches should be able to see large chinks and they will exploit them. We, as we always do, will play our own game and hope for the best. We ll focus on ourselves and let the opposition worry about us. I mean that strategy has served us well in the past. Right?
The main concern in Mayo is Full Back.........and with good reason. We have had a few terrible experiences in the past ........despite playing a talented footballer like David Heaney there.
When you pull on the No.3 jersey at IC level look who you will probably be facing - Paddy Bradley, Kieran Donaghy, Bernard Brogan, Declan Meehan, Mattie Forde, Sean Kavanagh, Stephen O Neill etc etc. Need I say any more? You might not win a game at full back but you can certainly lose a winnable game by being dodgy in that position.
Mayo are no where near ready in that position yet. And this I fear will be our undoing yet again come the summer. Certainly if I was an opposing manager I would be targeting that position.
Maybe that's why Billy Joe is being brought back? Not that this will be an automatic fix but what other options are there?
Quote from: diehard on April 07, 2010, 11:57:27 AM
The main concern in Mayo is Full Back.........and with good reason. We have had a few terrible experiences in the past ........despite playing a talented footballer like David Heaney there.
When you pull on the No.3 jersey at IC level look who you will probably be facing - Paddy Bradley, Kieran Donaghy, Bernard Brogan, Declan Meehan, Mattie Forde, Sean Kavanagh, Stephen O Neill etc etc. Need I say any more? You might not win a game at full back but you can certainly lose a winnable game by being dodgy in that position.
Mayo are no where near ready in that position yet. And this I fear will be our undoing yet again come the summer. Certainly if I was an opposing manager I would be targeting that position.
Maybe that's why Billy Joe is being brought back? Not that this will be an automatic fix but what other options are there?
We don't have any obvious options that you could parachute straight into the team for the Championship. So we will probably continue on with Ger Cafferkey and Kieran Conroy, depending on the opposing full forward. As others have said, I can see this being our downfall later in the year.
But I was at the Westport v Ballintubber league match at the weekend, and I couldn't believe how much Kevin Keane had bulked up in the last year. I wasn't at either of the U21 games this year, so hadn't seen him play since last years U21s. He played midfield for Westport the last day, so I couldn't judge him on his full-back play, but he is very big, strong and well able to catch a high ball and deliver it long and accurately.
Is he training with the senior panel at the moment? If not, I really think he's worth bringing in for a few training matches and see how he gets on. It's not like we have many other options. If nothing else, it would give Keane experience for next year, and Johnno could decide if he's a real option for starting FB next year (if not sooner).
Can i ask Mayo posters to mention full backs that they know from club football / schools football in years gone past that they thought were the real deal in that position.( Might not be playing there anymore) Want to get an idea of possible players who could play there. JOM has sent me on this scouting mission! So if you know or coached players who wore the no. 3 and had potential please post.
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Shane McHale. Played there for most of Knockmore's championship games last year. Maybe that's why Dempsey played Keane at cornerback in U-21s. I think his best position is at number 3, but others say he is a versatile player and can play anywhere. He will be u-21 next year again.
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 07, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.
Mick Conroy in 2004 though?
there goes my quiz question!
QuoteNot sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
Did conroy come on against NY that year? It's all gone up in smoke
I never said a creditable performance in an AIF was the limit of mayos ambition only that it would signal a decent year for mayo and would be an improvrment on whare JOM was parachuted onto the team in the 1st place.
his reign was meant to the final step instead he has taken the team well backwards thought the talent available has improved greatly .
id far prefer to lose any AIF than be put out in the qualifiers against a derry or meath even a quater final against tyrone
Mayos excellent 12 (13)
Clarke/or omalley 2 class keepers
K hiiggins
T howley
P gardiner
Rmcgarrity
S Osé
Tom parsons
A dillion
A oSé
A moran
C Mortimer
A kilcoyne
these guys would get their place on any team on the country/ even though some will have to be in top notch shape to get on the mayo team with the like of ronaldson bMoran Cunniffe Liam o malley pressing hard.
Talenrt is not the problem its the guy in the Blueshirt
QuoteClarke/or omalley 2 class keepers
K hiiggins
T howley
P gardiner
Rmcgarrity
S Osé
Tom parsons
A dillion
A oSé
A moran
C Mortimer
A kilcoyne
these guys would get their place on any team on the country
Sorry now, I don't want to be overly negative about these lads but I don't believe there is anyone in Mayo let alone anywhere else that would agree with that statement. If what you say is true, a manager would want to be plying these lads with drink before every game for them not to win an AI. Poor tactics or a dodgy team selection wouldn't prevent a team so laden down with talent win an AI. Sure what chance does a manager have of a fair assessment of his reign if you've got supporters who are so delusional about the standard of player he has got at his disposal.
Quote from: Zulu on April 07, 2010, 09:44:51 PM
QuoteClarke/or omalley 2 class keepers
K hiiggins
T howley
P gardiner
Rmcgarrity
S Osé
Tom parsons
A dillion
A oSé
A moran
C Mortimer
A kilcoyne
these guys would get their place on any team on the country
Sorry now, I don't want to be overly negative about these lads but I don't believe there is anyone in Mayo let alone anywhere else that would agree with that statement. If what you say is true, a manager would want to be plying these lads with drink before every game for them not to win an AI. Poor tactics or a dodgy team selection wouldn't prevent a team so laden down with talent win an AI. Sure what chance does a manager have of a fair assessment of his reign if you've got supporters who are so delusional about the standard of player he has got at his disposal.
Nothing delusional there. With the exception of Kerry and Tyrone (and only because they have had a proven winning formula in recent years with the players they have), all those Mayo men would get on the panel of every other county with half of them making a starting 15 on most.
Quote from: western exile on April 07, 2010, 10:04:31 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 07, 2010, 09:44:51 PM
QuoteClarke/or omalley 2 class keepers
K hiiggins
T howley
P gardiner
Rmcgarrity
S Osé
Tom parsons
A dillion
A oSé
A moran
C Mortimer
A kilcoyne
these guys would get their place on any team on the country
Sorry now, I don't want to be overly negative about these lads but I don't believe there is anyone in Mayo let alone anywhere else that would agree with that statement. If what you say is true, a manager would want to be plying these lads with drink before every game for them not to win an AI. Poor tactics or a dodgy team selection wouldn't prevent a team so laden down with talent win an AI. Sure what chance does a manager have of a fair assessment of his reign if you've got supporters who are so delusional about the standard of player he has got at his disposal.
Nothing delusional there. With the exception of Kerry and Tyrone (and only because they have had a proven winning formula in recent years with the players they have), all those Mayo men would get on the panel of every other county with half of them making a starting 15 on most.
Thing is fellas until these fellas actually put in a serious championship they will never get any respect from neutrals. I would also rate highly most of those listed but might swap a couple of my own - def have a McL on my list. However I can imagine the mirth this causes to neutrals. I honestly believe that Mayo players have often been let down by management- and not just this managemant. My biggest fear about this current set-up is that it is too conservative and safe. Even a little bit fearful of trying new things. An indication of that is when change is slow and things that dont work are tried again. What are the odds that we will revert to type again and end up with the same 3 and 11 again for Sligo as played last championship match. Or even Vaughan shuffled back to corner to accomodate Peadar but no hard choice made for the 5 shirt. Many managers would look at Keane now as possibly the best general purpose fb going forward( with Shane Mchale probably coming into the frame too). I m delighted to see BJP back but why not freshen up things and add in Keane too. And surely yet again Aidan Higgins cant be ignored.
A lot of talk about full-back and rightly so. But there is no 'general purpose' full-back in the country, capable of dealing with Donaghy when he gets good ball, not even in Kerry or Cork. Or even a Cussen.That takes something extra again. Griffin or Shields wouldn't do it and I think we need to be realistic about what a full- back can do one-on-one against what is an assortement of top inter-county forwards.
Bradleys, Brogans, SON, Murphy, Donaghy ask different questions of a full-back.
Quote from: Zulu on April 07, 2010, 09:44:51 PM
QuoteClarke/or omalley 2 class keepers
K hiiggins
T howley
P gardiner
Rmcgarrity
S Osé
Tom parsons
A dillion
A oSé
A moran
C Mortimer
A kilcoyne
these guys would get their place on any team on the country
Sure what chance does a manager have of a fair assessment of his reign if you've got supporters who are so delusional about the standard of player he has got at his disposal.
Zulu I can tell you obviously haven't spent much time amongst Mayo people. ;D
rosnarun claimed they'd make any team in the country and that is simply not true, most starting players from an IC team ranked in the top 10 would make the panel of the other top 10 counties with some of them making the team. But what rosnarun is saying is that these players are excellent IC players, how can you say that about the O'Shea brothers for example when neither of them have started two full seasons of senior IC football?
I think the problem with some lads is they see loads of football in their own county but little in any other county. Look at Micheal O'Se from Kerry as an example, he was the outstanding midfielder for St. Vincents when they won the AI. I saw him play Sigerson with UCC and I thought he'd be a senior Kerry footballer for sure but he can't even make the panel. I can assure you he would be on the Mayo team as he is an outstanding ball winner. I would also wager a small fortune that Aidan O'Shea wouldn't be on the Cork panel at the moment and C Mort wouldn't be on the team. That's not to say i think any of these lads are poor footballers, far from it, they are very good footballers but when you're talking about winning AI's the bar is set very high and I'm not sure some you appreciate that.
I'd liken some of the Mayo players to Ricky Hatton (the boxer), undoubtedly very good but when you get to the very highest levels they don't quite match up. Only Dillion has shown himself to be comfortable at the very highest level for me, C Mort, on occasion, has looked good, Parsons and Kilcoyne look to have the ability but haven't proven themselves yet but the rest aren't quite top level IMO.
We need a full-back who can mark the Eoin Bradleys, Bernard Brogans, Stephen O'neills. We have Kieran Conroy to mark the Donaghy's/Bergins (if FF). These first 3 mentioned are all no. 14's who are all strong men capable on winning their own ball. Ger Cafferkey is not strong enough or aggressive enough to mark these type of players. He is a good defender but not at no.3.
Kevin Keane appears to be an aggressive no. 3 in the mould of Kevin Cahill. Surely he has to be brought in. I think we must be the worst county for not recognising players who should be in our panel. I follow other counties threads and speak a fair bit with lads from other counties about football stuff. Why do Mayo above any other county (i know it happens in all counties) have so many players not on the panel that should be.
If you were to run a poll Aidan Higgins would top it as the player who most would want to see in the panel, let alone the team. Kevin keane and Shane Mchale to a lesser extent are now mentioned as players who should be on the panel. Aidan Campbell and the Kilcullens are players who have had problems with management but are needed if we want to get competition for all places on the team.
Is JOM not a good manager that he can't deal with these players??? To manage involves looking after ego's etc. You see this year we have a new Conor Mort. He has finally copped on after sitting down with JOM. I dont think we'll be seeing any MJ Mort stuff. And i don't even mind that stuff (it does get people talking about the game) It was Conor's absolute shit attitude and arrogance that bothered me but i think he has seen the light and fair play. He is a good player and has done good things for Mayo but i think he prevented himself from being a great. He has time perhaps to rectify this.
Now why cant JOM bring in Campbell and sit him down. I'd say his wild days are behind him now. Tell him to put his mind on the football and see if he is good enough. Campbell made mistakes but he's not the first one. Is his punishment now never to play for Mayo. He has represented Mayo at all underage groups so surely his dedication there entitles him to a second chance?
There is undoubtedly a new vibe within the Mayo camp this year. Keith Higgins spoke about them being less reliant on Dillon etc. It is true. Seamie O'Shea, Varley, McLoughlin have been a breath of fresh air. Mcgarrity and Parsons look up for it. D Vaughan is looking like an absolute top player. Conor is running around tackling. There is a good attitude amongst the players. They look like they have bonded with each other as a team. I hate saying it but maybe with Nallen and heaney gone the last links to 96 & 97 are gone and this has released the team. The huge cloud of the Nineties may have shifted. Its a little baggage that the panel has had to carry.
Also, with Dillan and C. Mort being away for the winter was not only a good thing for them, it made the others stand up to their responsibilities too
Some awful sh*te being spouted on here. It's time we stopped over-rating our players, it's unfair to them and creates completely unrealistic expectations among supporters.
Without doubt Higgins should be brought into the panel (and probably the team). Keane did have a spell training with the squad during the FBD, he obviously didn't do enough to impress but he's still young so hopefully next year or the following year he will come through.
Campbell should also be given another chance, he appeared to be good enough at underage level. How has he been doing last year/this year for Swinford? Was he U21 this year again?
Good to see BJP back in the squad, for me he as done very little wrong since being one of our best players in 06 AIF. Good utility player and a hard grafter to have on the panel.
For all the criticism of Johnno, there's no recognition of the good performances he finally got out of Kilcoyne last year and SO'S so far this year. No mention of him bringing Varley on to where he's looking like a definite championship starter.
As regards FB, we don't have a star no 3 in the county but Johnno looks like he'll be playing a mixture of Conroy & Caff there - it mightn't be great but for now it's as good as we can get. Pity Feeney got injured, would have liked to see more of him in there. At least the return of Conroy there shows that Johnno knows Caff isn't a natural FB but clearly thinks he may be his best option some of the time anyway.
JOM hasn't done eveything right in his tenure and has made some major mistakes but the bottom line is that he's doing a hell of a lot better than most people thought he would at the start of the year. Long may it continue......
Maigh Eo abu
Sorry Zulu, but which ones wouldn't come near a starting place on 'other teams'?
Campbell is not U-21 this year, don't think he was last year either if memory serves me correctly. He had great potential. Suppose BJP will be doing his usual grafting around the field... Chris Barrett, whom I made a grave error is well up to it and I acknowledge I was wrong about him.
Good point made there by somebody about our "attacking wing backs" - why is it that we have an abundance of these yet no sticky corner backs?
At underage, we probably need to be picking the most suitable players for each position rather than just the best 15 footballers and slotting them into various positions as required, you'll get away with this underage but not at senior level.......
Quote from: Zulu on April 07, 2010, 11:04:58 PM
rosnarun claimed they'd make any team in the country and that is simply not true, most starting players from an IC team ranked in the top 10 would make the panel of the other top 10 counties with some of them making the team. But what rosnarun is saying is that these players are excellent IC players, how can you say that about the O'Shea brothers for example when neither of them have started two full seasons of senior IC football?
I think the problem with some lads is they see loads of football in their own county but little in any other county. Look at Micheal O'Se from Kerry as an example, he was the outstanding midfielder for St. Vincents when they won the AI. I saw him play Sigerson with UCC and I thought he'd be a senior Kerry footballer for sure but he can't even make the panel. I can assure you he would be on the Mayo team as he is an outstanding ball winner. I would also wager a small fortune that Aidan O'Shea wouldn't be on the Cork panel at the moment and C Mort wouldn't be on the team. That's not to say i think any of these lads are poor footballers, far from it, they are very good footballers but when you're talking about winning AI's the bar is set very high and I'm not sure some you appreciate that.
I'd liken some of the Mayo players to Ricky Hatton (the boxer), undoubtedly very good but when you get to the very highest levels they don't quite match up. Only Dillion has shown himself to be comfortable at the very highest level for me, C Mort, on occasion, has looked good, Parsons and Kilcoyne look to have the ability but haven't proven themselves yet but the rest aren't quite top level IMO.
If Mícheál Ó Sé is not on the Kerry county panel ( looks a genuine horse of a man) then it s Jacko Connors judgement. He obviously thinks Maher and Moran are better options and if there was a transfer option those two boys would not be on my shopping list. Both fared poorly against a much maligned Mayo midfield of Parsons and Conroy a few weeks ago in Tralee. Ball winners not top of our list anyway
You could be right about Aidan and C Mort. Aidan on this form does nt look great but Counihan always looked a smart type and its only April. He ll also remember, all too painfully how Murphy was scuttled yet again( how does this keep happening the poor fella) O Connor lost his nerve again and Kerrigan had to be rescued against Tomás. I suspect you might be more confident about Cork s season than Conor is. But I see where you re coming from. When they re in a groove they look unbeatable. But its been that way since Anthony Lynch looked like a Hitler Youth leader. Dublin used to have that aura as well with Rhino and Whelo and Jayo and Cosgravo and the handsome Collie ( if he actually played a few games he would probably have as many all stars as darling Clucko, such was his reputation). Look, we all realise that Cork are deadly looking. Your preaching to the converted here Zulu. I have regular nightmares of Cork teams of years ago still, and I see the potential to destroy in this lot, believe me. But until they actually win the AI (it s been 20 years and back then they needed 2 Kildare men to do it) they re in the same boat as we are, as far as I m concerned. They lose AIs to Kerry- and indeed Meath. And they have no excuse. They know Kerry inside out, usually play each other 3 times a year. You probably think that if they shake off Kerry then they ll bury everybody else? That would be the logical way to read it. I would be kinda goin the same way. That s what should happen. Until it does happen.....
What that means is that Mayo, and others, are in a nice place if they can get things kinda right. There ll always be a Cork, Kerry or Tyrone who look invincible in any given year. Those teams dont always win it. This year there is huge pressure on Cork above anybody else. Most people under 25 remember the other 2 alpha teams winning the bloody thing.
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 11:16:37 PM
We need a full-back who can mark the Eoin Bradleys, Bernard Brogans, Stephen O'neills. We have Kieran Conroy to mark the Donaghy's/Bergins (if FF). These first 3 mentioned are all no. 14's who are all strong men capable on winning their own ball. Ger Cafferkey is not strong enough or aggressive enough to mark these type of players. He is a good defender but not at no.3.
Kevin Keane appears to be an aggressive no. 3 in the mould of Kevin Cahill. Surely he has to be brought in. I think we must be the worst county for not recognising players who should be in our panel. I follow other counties threads and speak a fair bit with lads from other counties about football stuff. Why do Mayo above any other county (i know it happens in all counties) have so many players not on the panel that should be.
If you were to run a poll Aidan Higgins would top it as the player who most would want to see in the panel, let alone the team. Kevin keane and Shane Mchale to a lesser extent are now mentioned as players who should be on the panel. Aidan Campbell and the Kilcullens are players who have had problems with management but are needed if we want to get competition for all places on the team.
Is JOM not a good manager that he can't deal with these players??? To manage involves looking after ego's etc. You see this year we have a new Conor Mort. He has finally copped on after sitting down with JOM. I dont think we'll be seeing any MJ Mort stuff. And i don't even mind that stuff (it does get people talking about the game) It was Conor's absolute shit attitude and arrogance that bothered me but i think he has seen the light and fair play. He is a good player and has done good things for Mayo but i think he prevented himself from being a great. He has time perhaps to rectify this.
Now why cant JOM bring in Campbell and sit him down. I'd say his wild days are behind him now. Tell him to put his mind on the football and see if he is good enough. Campbell made mistakes but he's not the first one. Is his punishment now never to play for Mayo. He has represented Mayo at all underage groups so surely his dedication there entitles him to a second chance?
There is undoubtedly a new vibe within the Mayo camp this year. Keith Higgins spoke about them being less reliant on Dillon etc. It is true. Seamie O'Shea, Varley, McLoughlin have been a breath of fresh air. Mcgarrity and Parsons look up for it. D Vaughan is looking like an absolute top player. Conor is running around tackling. There is a good attitude amongst the players. They look like they have bonded with each other as a team. I hate saying it but maybe with Nallen and heaney gone the last links to 96 & 97 are gone and this has released the team. The huge cloud of the Nineties may have shifted. Its a little baggage that the panel has had to carry.
Liked this post. Great antidote to my misery to see an upbeat poster that nails things.
However I just highlighted a couple of things.
Your correct in saying we need a full-back for Brogans, Meehan, Bradleys etc. But nobody can mark top forwards given good ball one-on-one.
As regards Conroy marking Donaghy in a Championship match. Dont think so to be honest, and I like Conroy. But his feet are all wrong to mark Donaghy. Against Monaghan was left like a trailer, twice. What makes Donaghy probably the scariest 14 of all time is that he brings foreign abilities to the position. He plays like a basketball player under the boards in there. His footwork is like nothing gaelic footballers ever do in drills. Tall with longer than normal reach, moves differently than a gaelic player - does nt need to turn his back to keep the ball. Off loads like hes laying it up for somebody else and can kick the ball excellently as well. There is nt a back in the country that can survive against him ,if he s healthy, one-on-one. Ask Francy Bellew. And that was obvious in 06. Mayo management at the time almost nailed it but probably didn't fancy they might upset more people than they had done already. Tyrone got a solution 2 years after. Cork didn't even try I d say- cant remember but probably Derek Kavanagh ffs. Kavanagh a good type but needs likes of Austy to flourish. Good managers find a way. There s an obvious answer in the Mayo v Kerry match-up. And a sweeper of course as well - like Enda Mcginley did for Tyrone when Tyrone played rope-a-dope and Canavan applied the coup-de-grace. That s what we have to do.
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 08, 2010, 12:01:09 AM
Good point made there by somebody about our "attacking wing backs" - why is it that we have an abundance of these yet no sticky corner backs?
At underage, we probably need to be picking the most suitable players for each position rather than just the best 15 footballers and slotting them into various positions as required, you'll get away with this underage but not at senior level.......
Because it's the position where you need the least grey matter and depend more on fitness and athleticism than anything else. It's also the position in which you can pass the buck on to someone else as quickly and as painlessly as possible!
For my money, Noel Connelly was the only top class 'attacking wing back' we have had in a long, long time. Knowing when to go forward and when to attend to the primary duty of defending, many others fall, or fell, short.
Despite his many fine qualities, Peadar Gardiner is not a good defender and he moves up field far too often, leaving gaps behind him. Centre half backs were prone to this also and James Nallen comes to mind. In his prime, he was an inspirational player but his accuracy let him down badly even back then. David Heaney would move forward at every opportunity – no matter what position he was listed to fill and his shooting skills were on par with my own.
Remember the '07 game in Salthill, when Mayo were piling on the pressure coming up to the end; Heaney suddenly materialised in front of goal and took a pot shot at something or other. He was probably trying for a point but his shot was blocked down easily and he surrendered hard-won possession without a bother at all. He was supposed to be FB at the time!
We presently have a surplus of lads who can play at half back and this has been so since the late 90s. All seem willing and able to run themselves into the ground and link up and handball all day but damn few are confident enough to take on an opponent in a one to one and dispossess him.
Like you say, we need the best fifteen as a unit and not for individual talent. Someone else made the point recently that Kevin Cahill was our best full back in ages, in part because he has two superb corner backs alongside him. Keith Higgins apart, I haven't seen a corner back with the self-discipline necessary to stick to his primary duties since the days of Mortimer—and Flanagan in '96 anyway.
Maybe Johnno is up to something as he seems reluctant to make sweeping changes in his defence any more. I'd imagine that the Cork game will reveal a lot about his plans for the summer.
Great discussion here boys.
I wonder is Zulu correct in setting the bar for players as high as he sets it? We set it very high at home too. We look at this player and that player and say "he'd never survive the white heat of the third Sunday" and rend another garment. But if you look at All-Ireland winning teams, you'll see gluggers and passengers in there among the stars too.
You only have to beat what's in front in you. If you set a new standard in football like Down in the 60s, Kerry in the 70s and 80s, Meath in the late 80s or Tyrone in the last decade, good for you. But I'd be content for Mayo to just win an All-Ireland, and be the 126th best team to ever win one, than to be sitting here crying in the ashes as usual.
Analysing players is something we do badly. See how Moysider put the fine tooth comb through Kieran Donaghy, and how Donaghy uses his basketball skills as a footballer? Whereas in Mayo we use basketballer as a term of abuse, synonymous with "soft lad." Who's right?
Moysider makes another interesting point about team composition, to do with how some teams are more than the sum of their parts because of heart (Harte?), belief and sideline acumen, while some are less, like Cork, Mayo and Dublin. Some of that has to do with football culture, but a lot of it has to do with management too. And that's why Johnno gets such a hard time.
If you treat someone as shabbily as John Maughan and Mickey Moran were both treated by the Mayo County Board it doesn't make sense that the same standards aren't applied to their successor, Johnno, as were applied to Maughan and Moran.
Johnno says this criticism is unfair but he was much less coy about accepting the Messiah mantle before he got the job – or was elected to Dáil Éireann, for that matter, as Rosnarun isn't shy about reminding people. It's was only after he had his shoes under the bed we heard all this chat about rebuilding and patience and lowering expectations.
Johnno's done well this year but he did well his first year in charge too, when Mayo got to the League final. Here's the team that started that final against Donegal (with all praise and thanks to Willie Joe of the Mayo GAA Blog http://mayogaablog.com/ (http://mayogaablog.com/)):
MAYO: D Clarke; K Higgins, J Kilcullen, L O'Malley; E Devenney, BJ Padden, P Gardiner; J Nallen, D Heaney; P Harte, G Brady, A Dillon; A Moran, C Mortimor, M Conroy. Subs: A Higgins for Kilcullen (19 mins), K O'Neill for Conroy (42 mins), T Howley for A Higgin, A Kilcoyne for Dillon (both 71 minutes), A Campbell for Nallen (75 mins).
So I don't think we'll go counting any chickens just yet. Anyway. There it is. Go n-éirí linn cois Laoi. Maigh Eo abú.
Quote from: muppet on April 07, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 07, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.
I didn't think so Muppet but I'm open to correction.
Ros ur an awful man for the anti JOM, so I wont bother arguing with you over it, theres a lot of FFs in Mayo who dont like JOM for his politics and slate him whether he's doing well or not.
As for Keane being the next Cahill, isn;t that exactly what we said about Caff? I think we're too quick to write off Caff, he style is different to what we've seen before, he's never likely to beat his man to the ball everytime but what he does do is get a hand in where he shouldn't or stick to them like glue when they have it. I'd stick with him, he'll learn and grow.
2 seperate notes, we see have to have kevin cahill up on a pedestal, yes a great full back but i think he's getting better with every failed FB we get. Also current FBs have probably the toughest full forward to deal with since the Bomber, maybe ever, I think Donaghy will be viewed as the outstanding footballer of his generation, ahead of O'Neill, Gooch etc.
If ye were to find someone to mark Donaghy on the current Mayo squad who would it be? I see your point about Conroy and his feet. He seems to take a lot of smaller steps. He doesn't seem to have a long stride. He got burned a good bit against Monaghan for that.
Thing with Donaghy is that he pivots off this standing position. He has such a huge frame and his step is massive. His style of kicking is funny. Funny in that for such a big man he fairly wraps his foot around the ball, curling it over.
What height is Conroy? He does seem the best equipped to try and break ball away from Donaghy. The think with Kerry is they play it in diagonally to Donaghy. That way its harder for a full back to break it. Thats Mayo's problem with the ball into A O'S is that its too straight. It allows the full back to attack it head on and get a fist onto or else put him off. Donaghy knows from basketball that he's better getting it diagonally. It allows him to catch turn and fire with his right foot. You watch the goal he got against Heaney, the one against bellew. It's the same side. The defender gets caught out on the wrong side because of the way they try and attack it. Donaghy has the option of shooting himself or laying it off which he does so well.
In order to defend Donaghy you have to stop the likes of Galvin who angles in the ball from his position. You do need a sweeper. Someone like Seamie O'Shea maybe even Pat Harte. Strong Athletic types
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 08, 2010, 01:37:15 PM
If ye were to find someone to mark Donaghy on the current Mayo squad who would it be? I see your point about Conroy and his feet. He seems to take a lot of smaller steps. He doesn't seem to have a long stride. He got burned a good bit against Monaghan for that.
Thing with Donaghy is that he pivots off this standing position. He has such a huge frame and his step is massive. His style of kicking is funny. Funny in that for such a big man he fairly wraps his foot around the ball, curling it over.
What height is Conroy? He does seem the best equipped to try and break ball away from Donaghy. The think with Kerry is they play it in diagonally to Donaghy. That way its harder for a full back to break it. Thats Mayo's problem with the ball into A O'S is that its too straight. It allows the full back to attack it head on and get a fist onto or else put him off. Donaghy knows from basketball that he's better getting it diagonally. It allows him to catch turn and fire with his right foot. You watch the goal he got against Heaney, the one against bellew. It's the same side. The defender gets caught out on the wrong side because of the way they try and attack it. Donaghy has the option of shooting himself or laying it off which he does so well.
In order to defend Donaghy you have to stop the likes of Galvin who angles in the ball from his position. You do need a sweeper. Someone like Seamie O'Shea maybe even Pat Harte. Strong Athletic types
Why not the guy who is a better basketballer?
QuoteSorry Zulu, but which ones wouldn't come near a starting place on 'other teams'?
I'm just looking back at my posts there Farrandeelin and I don't see where I said that. I said Aidan O'Shea wouldn't make the Cork panel and that C Mort wouldn't make the team and I'd stand over that. I don't want to focus on other teams as I feel that they also have players that aren't up to it, Ger Brennan in Dublin or Alan O'Connor in Cork for example but I do think the supporters of those counties recognize that, whereas Mayo supporters might be a bit less circumspect.
From reading the Mayo threads over the years I think there is a trend, when you do well you elevate the players beyond what most of them deserve. And when things are going wrong you hammer the players and management far more than they deserve, probably because you built them up to more than they ever were.
The only point I've tried to make is that JOM hasn't done too bad so far because he hasn't had a brilliant squad of players to work with and it takes time to learn about players at IC level and it takes time for them to adapt to what you want them to do. IMO JOM is doing a far better job in Mayo than Counihan is doing in Cork who is probably getting 4-5 players wrong and 3-4 positions wrong. This weekends game will be interesting but if they both make the league final a game in CP could really tell us a thing or two about Mayo.
Quote from: muppet on April 08, 2010, 02:28:46 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 08, 2010, 01:37:15 PM
If ye were to find someone to mark Donaghy on the current Mayo squad who would it be? I see your point about Conroy and his feet. He seems to take a lot of smaller steps. He doesn't seem to have a long stride. He got burned a good bit against Monaghan for that.
Thing with Donaghy is that he pivots off this standing position. He has such a huge frame and his step is massive. His style of kicking is funny. Funny in that for such a big man he fairly wraps his foot around the ball, curling it over.
What height is Conroy? He does seem the best equipped to try and break ball away from Donaghy. The think with Kerry is they play it in diagonally to Donaghy. That way its harder for a full back to break it. Thats Mayo's problem with the ball into A O'S is that its too straight. It allows the full back to attack it head on and get a fist onto or else put him off. Donaghy knows from basketball that he's better getting it diagonally. It allows him to catch turn and fire with his right foot. You watch the goal he got against Heaney, the one against bellew. It's the same side. The defender gets caught out on the wrong side because of the way they try and attack it. Donaghy has the option of shooting himself or laying it off which he does so well.
In order to defend Donaghy you have to stop the likes of Galvin who angles in the ball from his position. You do need a sweeper. Someone like Seamie O'Shea maybe even Pat Harte. Strong Athletic types
Why not the guy who is a better basketballer?
Nailed that in one. Abc really when you think about it.
Colm O'Rourke, the poor hoor, let off a bit of steam last Sunday when he gave out about the upsurge of GAA-related sites that allow anonymous posters put up scurrilous comments about players, managers and officials that are unfounded and insulting. I fully accept that what he wrote of is a most unwelcome and ever growing menace but he was way off the mark when it came to making suggestions as to what should be done about it.
That's a horse for another course however; it's the fact that Paidi's piece at the top of the same page generated no tangible reaction at all. For those who didn't read it, Paidi's banner headline was:
'Confidence boost can fire Mayo to All-Ireland glory'
He went on to tell us that he feels it in his bones that Mayo are going to break the jinx this year. I sincerely hope he is right but somehow I think the only thing Paidi will feel in his bones will be breaks of a different nature—if John O'Mahony ever manages to get within ass-kicking distance of him.
If it were to come to a matter of stating the obvious and missing the point, I'd find it impossible to separate O'Rourke and O'Shea last Sunday.
Years ago when O'Rourke began writing his Indo articles, he did pass a very insightful comment about the nature of Mayo football. Mayo, sez he, were lovely to watch but had no self-belief whatsoever. The Meath players and management knew they had always the beating of Mayo—all they had to do was to stick with their own game plan and leave the showboarding stuff to their opponents until the final stages.
Automatically, when Meath stepped up the pace, Mayo heads would all drop.
QuoteMoysider makes another interesting point about team composition, to do with how some teams are more than the sum of their parts because of heart (Harte?), belief and sideline acumen, while some are less, like Cork, Mayo and Dublin. Some of that has to do with football culture, but a lot of it has to do with management too. And that's why Johnno gets such a hard time.
That's from moysider, via Iolar, and it sums up the Meath team of O'Rourke's time to perfection. Meath had a number of genuine artists but they had a larger number of equally genuine artisans. They were widely unpopular and unattractive to watch but they were also very successful. They number of times they managed to come back from the dead by their refusal to accept defeat until the final whistle was astounding. Mayo will long remember Colm Coyle and the drawn final of '96. Mickey Harte managed to bring out the same qualities, more than a decade after Sean Boylan turned his sows' ears into silk purses.
Pat Spillane may have fumed about 'puke' football but the pukers had the last laugh.
But Meath, and later Tyrone, didn't succeed purely on their work ethics alone; each was blessed with having a shrewd and forceful manager who made the best sum of the individual talents at his disposal. You could add in the fact that they also had plenty of hard men who weren't averse to stepping outside the rules, whenever they got a chance to do so.
Paidi may indeed be more than just a pretty face but I'd need a hell of a lot of convincing that he would ever turn out to be the real Messiah. Diagnosing our problem is one thing but coming up with a cure is quite another.
QuoteQuote from: muppet on Today at 02:28:46 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on Today at 01:37:15 PM
If ye were to find someone to mark Donaghy on the current Mayo squad who would it be? I see your point about Conroy and his feet. He seems to take a lot of smaller steps. He doesn't seem to have a long stride. He got burned a good bit against Monaghan for that.
Thing with Donaghy is that he pivots off this standing position. He has such a huge frame and his step is massive. His style of kicking is funny. Funny in that for such a big man he fairly wraps his foot around the ball, curling it over.
What height is Conroy? He does seem the best equipped to try and break ball away from Donaghy. The think with Kerry is they play it in diagonally to Donaghy. That way its harder for a full back to break it. Thats Mayo's problem with the ball into A O'S is that its too straight. It allows the full back to attack it head on and get a fist onto or else put him off. Donaghy knows from basketball that he's better getting it diagonally. It allows him to catch turn and fire with his right foot. You watch the goal he got against Heaney, the one against bellew. It's the same side. The defender gets caught out on the wrong side because of the way they try and attack it. Donaghy has the option of shooting himself or laying it off which he does so well.
In order to defend Donaghy you have to stop the likes of Galvin who angles in the ball from his position. You do need a sweeper. Someone like Seamie O'Shea maybe even Pat Harte. Strong Athletic types
Why not the guy who is a better basketballer?
Nailed that in one. Abc really when you think about it.
Mcgarritty is a different type of basketballer lads. He isn't the power forward like Donaghy! Did he not say he would quit Mayo football if he was moved to no.14 around the time the furore arose over Donaghy's switch there. So i suppose no.3 means the same!
Ah no i suppose he is the obvious one but i don't know if he is strong enough.
Is Deora still around??!!
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 08, 2010, 06:37:50 PM
QuoteQuote from: muppet on Today at 02:28:46 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on Today at 01:37:15 PM
If ye were to find someone to mark Donaghy on the current Mayo squad who would it be? I see your point about Conroy and his feet. He seems to take a lot of smaller steps. He doesn't seem to have a long stride. He got burned a good bit against Monaghan for that.
Thing with Donaghy is that he pivots off this standing position. He has such a huge frame and his step is massive. His style of kicking is funny. Funny in that for such a big man he fairly wraps his foot around the ball, curling it over.
What height is Conroy? He does seem the best equipped to try and break ball away from Donaghy. The think with Kerry is they play it in diagonally to Donaghy. That way its harder for a full back to break it. Thats Mayo's problem with the ball into A O'S is that its too straight. It allows the full back to attack it head on and get a fist onto or else put him off. Donaghy knows from basketball that he's better getting it diagonally. It allows him to catch turn and fire with his right foot. You watch the goal he got against Heaney, the one against bellew. It's the same side. The defender gets caught out on the wrong side because of the way they try and attack it. Donaghy has the option of shooting himself or laying it off which he does so well.
In order to defend Donaghy you have to stop the likes of Galvin who angles in the ball from his position. You do need a sweeper. Someone like Seamie O'Shea maybe even Pat Harte. Strong Athletic types
Why not the guy who is a better basketballer?
Nailed that in one. Abc really when you think about it.
Mcgarritty is a different type of basketballer lads. He isn't the power forward like Donaghy! Did he not say he would quit Mayo football if he was moved to no.14 around the time the furore arose over Donaghy's switch there. So i suppose no.3 means the same!
Ah no i suppose he is the obvious one but i don't know if he is strong enough.
Is Deora still around??!!
Not sure its a question of strength and mcgarrity is no weakling. Besides he has the better of Star anytime they meet on the court and I would fancy him to take Donaghy around the middle as well. Ronan has good defensive instincts too and would have the instinct to cover Donaghys moves and not end up on his hole. Only McG has the feet to go toe to toe with Donaghy. And the height as well. Funny you mention Deora. A coach once told me the only reason he wasn't an NBA player was because his defensive game was weaker than his offensive game. And that he claimed was down to his footwork. Ronan I believe is considered better defensively. Not that I m suggesting he should mark Paddy Bradley.
The Cork Senior Football team to play Mayo:
Alan Quirke Valley Rovers
Eoin Cotter Douglas
Michael Shields St. Finbarr's
Anthony Lynch Naomh Aban
Kieran O'Connor Aghada
Ger Spillane Ballygarvan
Graham Canty Bantry
Aidan Walsh Kanturk
Derek Kavanagh Nemo Rangers
Fintan Goold Macroom
Donncha O'Connor Ballydesmond
Kevin McMahon Carbery Rangers
Colm O'Neill Ballyclough
Ciaran Sheehan Eire Og
John Hayes Carbery Rangers
That's a pretty strong team on paper but Lynch and Canty will be seeing action for the first time this year so it may not be as good as it first appears. Ciaran Sheehan at FF has been tipped for stardom from a long way out so it will be interesting to see how it gets on, it's a very strong full forward line anyway with O'Neill and Hayes there. Spillane, K O'Connor and Shields are weak links though and will struggle I suspect.
I'd be very worried about what that full forward line could do to us. I've heard a lot about Sheehan but only saw him play against Dublin but he looked serious. We will miss Keith Higgins badly.
Cork's defence is suspect though. Glad to see Cadogan isn't starting and, for all the talk of how much strength in depth Cork have, the fact that Kieran O'Connor continues to get a sniff beggars belief. I know he's from the same club as Counihan. Has that much to do with it? Worst top level county defender since Paul Casey.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 08, 2010, 10:08:19 PM
I'd be very worried about what that full forward line could do to us. I've heard a lot about Sheehan but only saw him play against Dublin but he looked serious. We will miss Keith Higgins badly.
Cork's defence is suspect though. Glad to see Cadogan isn't starting and, for all the talk of how much strength in depth Cork have, the fact that Kieran O'Connor continues to get a sniff beggars belief. I know he's from the same club as Counihan. Has that much to do with it? Worst top level county defender since Paul Casey.
Me too. Good to get a taste of this kind of a full forward line now and see how we get on. If we cant cope now no use anybody codding themselves that we d be able to do any better later with the same personnel. We still dont know how we ll match up do we? Any team yet?
Doesn't appear to be a team which would make it the fourth week in a row that Johnno has shite-acted with not naming it until the day of the game. I'd imagine Chris Barrett will come in for Keith Higgins and I'd like to think they'd move Kevin McLoughlin into the corner.
If Varley doesn't start, Ronaldson will probably come in. I wouldn't say C Mortimer is guaranteed to start. If not, they might play Dillon inside, move Seamie O'Shea to 11 and start McGarrity.
Will be interesting to see if they start Conroy. If they do then Johnno's horses for courses talk will be bunyuck. Cafferkey would have a much better chance on Sheehan and wouldn't struggle physically with him.
there's no doubting there is strength involved here. Donaghy is a big man, not just height wise. He is very good at holding off defenders with left-hand while shooting right-footed. Ask David Brady about the strength of Donaghy. It would i must admit be an absolutely fascinating battle
No mayo team until Sunday again....
I would suspect Chris Barrett for Keith and McLoughlin back. Tough task for him on Colm O'Neill.
Also Sheehan will be a big problem for whoever is selected at no.3. That's going to be a very interesting call.
Why do i think there is going to be something dramatic about one selection. I have a feeling in my bones that we will see someone totally not expected... Don't know why but guess we'll find out Sunday...
P.s. I had a feeling Nani would be a star for Utd last night before the match and i wasn't wrong!
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 08, 2010, 10:25:40 PM
No mayo team until Sunday again....
I would suspect Chris Barrett for Keith and McLoughlin back. Tough task for him on Colm O'Neill.
Also Sheehan will be a big problem for whoever is selected at no.3. That's going to be a very interesting call.
Why do i think there is going to be something dramatic about one selection. I have a feeling in my bones that we will see someone totally not expected... Don't know why but guess we'll find out Sunday...
P.s. I had a feeling Nani would be a star for Utd last night before the match and i wasn't wrong!
Ciaran McDonald!!
You better be right for starting that rumour......
There could be a bit shuffling in the Cork backs, Shields has been roasted all league at FB and I wouldn't be surprised if he and Canty switch. R&GS, you're dead right about O'Connor but Spillane is poor too so Mayo could get a lot of joy here. Lynch might be a weak link this weekend too as it can take older lads a bit more time to get up to speed after a lay off and you would think the likes of Varley would be close to peak fitness now. Outside of the FF line I think Mayo will compete very well, I don't think Kavanagh is anywhere near an IC midfielder so Mayo might dominate the middle this weekend but Cork have players to come off the bench if need be and they may not be taking this game as seriously as Mayo will.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 08, 2010, 10:18:44 PM
Doesn't appear to be a team which would make it the fourth week in a row that Johnno has shite-acted with not naming it until the day of the game. I'd imagine Chris Barrett will come in for Keith Higgins and I'd like to think they'd move Kevin McLoughlin into the corner.
If Varley doesn't start, Ronaldson will probably come in. I wouldn't say C Mortimer is guaranteed to start. If not, they might play Dillon inside, move Seamie O'Shea to 11 and start McGarrity.
Will be interesting to see if they start Conroy. If they do then Johnno's horses for courses talk will be bunyuck. Cafferkey would have a much better chance on Sheehan and wouldn't struggle physically with him.
HORSES FOR COURSES ,
You really think thats why Cafferkey isn't getting a game any more? nothing to do with the fact he hasnot been able to catch a ball all year?
BJP has returned he may not be back ready sunday but untill JOM gives keane his head BLP is not the outstanding Full back candidate
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 08, 2010, 10:08:19 PM
I'd be very worried about what that full forward line could do to us. I've heard a lot about Sheehan but only saw him play against Dublin but he looked serious. We will miss Keith Higgins badly.
Cork's defence is suspect though. Glad to see Cadogan isn't starting and, for all the talk of how much strength in depth Cork have, the fact that Kieran O'Connor continues to get a sniff beggars belief. I know he's from the same club as Counihan. Has that much to do with it? Worst top level county defender since Paul Casey.
Cork have only conceded 3 more points than Mayo over the 6 games. It is goals that they have been leaking, 9 so far compared to Mayo 5
QuoteCiaran McDonald!!
You better be right for starting that rumour......
Hold on there was no mention of the great one! No i think we may see a keegan/nally/padden/mcdonagh/kelly/Feeney
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 08, 2010, 10:37:23 PM
QuoteCiaran McDonald!!
You better be right for starting that rumour......
Hold on there was no mention of the great one! No i think we may see a keegan/nally/padden/mcdonagh/kelly/Feeney
I certainly wouldn't rule out the last named there. In for Conroy perhaps? If that were to happen, it would spell the end for Ger Caff at three. Hard to know.
It s shite not having a team until the day of the game again. Looks like their waiting to see how the hamstrings are coming along. Can't see Varley play if he even felt a slight pull last weekend. No point risking more damage this time of year. McGarrity looked fine last Sunday but the pitch was heavy for an iffy hamstring and both his feet skid from under him at one stage as well. He was replaced shortly after and it looked like he had tweaked it a bit. He seemed to be feeling it a bit.
I d say we might be looking at Clarkie, O Mal, Conroy, Kevin Mac, Vaughan, Howley, Barrett, O Sé, Parsons, Harte, Dillon, Trevor, Conoreen, Aidan, Ronnie.
Full back will be a big call. If Caff doesn't make this one it wont look good for him but they played Conroy v Monaghan on what looked like a player more suited to Ger. I would nt be surprised if Barry Moran gets some time if he s nearly right at all.
mayo midfield should be looking to get upper hand on that cork duo. No need to risk Mcgarrity. What's the story with Pat Harte? Is he back in the country full-time? I really dont know where he could be played.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2010, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 07, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 07, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.
I didn't think so Muppet but I'm open to correction.
Ros ur an awful man for the anti JOM, so I wont bother arguing with you over it, theres a lot of FFs in Mayo who dont like JOM for his politics and slate him whether he's doing well or not.
As for Keane being the next Cahill, isn;t that exactly what we said about Caff? I think we're too quick to write off Caff, he style is different to what we've seen before, he's never likely to beat his man to the ball everytime but what he does do is get a hand in where he shouldn't or stick to them like glue when they have it. I'd stick with him, he'll learn and grow.
2 seperate notes, we see have to have kevin cahill up on a pedestal, yes a great full back but i think he's getting better with every failed FB we get. Also current FBs have probably the toughest full forward to deal with since the Bomber, maybe ever, I think Donaghy will be viewed as the outstanding footballer of his generation, ahead of O'Neill, Gooch etc.
Dempsey played in the CF replay in '89. Refer WJs excellent site: http://mayogaablog.com/
Wasnt there a Reilly came on in the replay in 96?
Navin and Conroy both made their debuts from the bench in 04
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 08, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2010, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 07, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 07, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.
I didn't think so Muppet but I'm open to correction.
Ros ur an awful man for the anti JOM, so I wont bother arguing with you over it, theres a lot of FFs in Mayo who dont like JOM for his politics and slate him whether he's doing well or not.
As for Keane being the next Cahill, isn;t that exactly what we said about Caff? I think we're too quick to write off Caff, he style is different to what we've seen before, he's never likely to beat his man to the ball everytime but what he does do is get a hand in where he shouldn't or stick to them like glue when they have it. I'd stick with him, he'll learn and grow.
2 seperate notes, we see have to have kevin cahill up on a pedestal, yes a great full back but i think he's getting better with every failed FB we get. Also current FBs have probably the toughest full forward to deal with since the Bomber, maybe ever, I think Donaghy will be viewed as the outstanding footballer of his generation, ahead of O'Neill, Gooch etc.
Dempsey played in the CF replay in '89. Refer WJs excellent site: http://mayogaablog.com/
Wasnt there a Reilly came on in the replay in 96?
Navin and Conroy both made their debuts from the bench in 04
Tom Reilly, believe me it wasn't his debut. Search youtube for a cracking goal against the Rossies in 1988 (I think) set up by a young Liam McHale.
Quote from: muppet on April 08, 2010, 11:22:03 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 08, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2010, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 07, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 07, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.
I didn't think so Muppet but I'm open to correction.
Ros ur an awful man for the anti JOM, so I wont bother arguing with you over it, theres a lot of FFs in Mayo who dont like JOM for his politics and slate him whether he's doing well or not.
As for Keane being the next Cahill, isn;t that exactly what we said about Caff? I think we're too quick to write off Caff, he style is different to what we've seen before, he's never likely to beat his man to the ball everytime but what he does do is get a hand in where he shouldn't or stick to them like glue when they have it. I'd stick with him, he'll learn and grow.
2 seperate notes, we see have to have kevin cahill up on a pedestal, yes a great full back but i think he's getting better with every failed FB we get. Also current FBs have probably the toughest full forward to deal with since the Bomber, maybe ever, I think Donaghy will be viewed as the outstanding footballer of his generation, ahead of O'Neill, Gooch etc.
Dempsey played in the CF replay in '89. Refer WJs excellent site: http://mayogaablog.com/
Wasnt there a Reilly came on in the replay in 96?
Navin and Conroy both made their debuts from the bench in 04
Tom Reilly, believe me it wasn't his debut. Search youtube for a cracking goal against the Rossies in 1988 (I think) set up by a young Liam McHale.
Tom must've been a ripe old age when he came on in 1996
Quote from: stephenite on April 08, 2010, 11:23:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 08, 2010, 11:22:03 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 08, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2010, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 07, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 07, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.
I didn't think so Muppet but I'm open to correction.
Ros ur an awful man for the anti JOM, so I wont bother arguing with you over it, theres a lot of FFs in Mayo who dont like JOM for his politics and slate him whether he's doing well or not.
As for Keane being the next Cahill, isn;t that exactly what we said about Caff? I think we're too quick to write off Caff, he style is different to what we've seen before, he's never likely to beat his man to the ball everytime but what he does do is get a hand in where he shouldn't or stick to them like glue when they have it. I'd stick with him, he'll learn and grow.
2 seperate notes, we see have to have kevin cahill up on a pedestal, yes a great full back but i think he's getting better with every failed FB we get. Also current FBs have probably the toughest full forward to deal with since the Bomber, maybe ever, I think Donaghy will be viewed as the outstanding footballer of his generation, ahead of O'Neill, Gooch etc.
Dempsey played in the CF replay in '89. Refer WJs excellent site: http://mayogaablog.com/
Wasnt there a Reilly came on in the replay in 96?
Navin and Conroy both made their debuts from the bench in 04
Tom Reilly, believe me it wasn't his debut. Search youtube for a cracking goal against the Rossies in 1988 (I think) set up by a young Liam McHale.
Tom must've been a ripe old age when he came on in 1996
U-21 CHB this this was his son Eoghan I believe.
QuoteKeith Higgins apart, I haven't seen a corner back with the self-discipline necessary to stick to his primary duties since the days of Mortimer—and Flanagan in '96 anyway
That's probably true although A Higgins and G Ruane were both genuine backs rather than just good footballers which is what we have an awful lot of.
McG vs Donaghy?? Would be interesting to see but not a hope of it happening. IMO, McG wouldn't have a hope against Donaghy. If he would, then we should be playing him FF instead of at MF.
I think Caff is still worth a go in the corner. He's ok at FB if he gets cover from the corners and might still be our best option if Conroy/Feeney aren't up to it.
Cahill was a great FB (probably not recognised as being great outside Mayo/Connacht though) partly because 1) he had two good corner backs 2) Mayo probably had the top midfield/Half backs/half forwards in terms of ball-winning in the country. Not to take away from the man but it's easy to be a great FB when you have that kind of protection instead of the opposition having all the time in the world to rain ball in on top of you as happened Heaney in 04/06.
Johnno not naming the team til Sunday again.......Off with his head!!! ;)
I think Reilly was 38 when he came on in 96 but I could be wrong on that. Exceptionally foolish move by Maughan......
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 08, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2010, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 07, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 07, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.
I didn't think so Muppet but I'm open to correction.
Ros ur an awful man for the anti JOM, so I wont bother arguing with you over it, theres a lot of FFs in Mayo who dont like JOM for his politics and slate him whether he's doing well or not.
As for Keane being the next Cahill, isn;t that exactly what we said about Caff? I think we're too quick to write off Caff, he style is different to what we've seen before, he's never likely to beat his man to the ball everytime but what he does do is get a hand in where he shouldn't or stick to them like glue when they have it. I'd stick with him, he'll learn and grow.
2 seperate notes, we see have to have kevin cahill up on a pedestal, yes a great full back but i think he's getting better with every failed FB we get. Also current FBs have probably the toughest full forward to deal with since the Bomber, maybe ever, I think Donaghy will be viewed as the outstanding footballer of his generation, ahead of O'Neill, Gooch etc.
Dempsey played in the CF replay in '89. Refer WJs excellent site: http://mayogaablog.com/
Wasnt there a Reilly came on in the replay in 96?
Navin and Conroy both made their debuts from the bench in 04
There was indeed; Tom Reilly from Kiltimagh if my memory is right. He had been a fringe player for some time never could nail down a regular spot. No disrespect whatever to Tom, but many Mayo fans took his coming on to mean Maughan would have fielded Paddy Bluett before he's give Kevin O'Neill a run.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 08, 2010, 11:35:10 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 08, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2010, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 07, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 07, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.
I didn't think so Muppet but I'm open to correction.
Ros ur an awful man for the anti JOM, so I wont bother arguing with you over it, theres a lot of FFs in Mayo who dont like JOM for his politics and slate him whether he's doing well or not.
As for Keane being the next Cahill, isn;t that exactly what we said about Caff? I think we're too quick to write off Caff, he style is different to what we've seen before, he's never likely to beat his man to the ball everytime but what he does do is get a hand in where he shouldn't or stick to them like glue when they have it. I'd stick with him, he'll learn and grow.
2 seperate notes, we see have to have kevin cahill up on a pedestal, yes a great full back but i think he's getting better with every failed FB we get. Also current FBs have probably the toughest full forward to deal with since the Bomber, maybe ever, I think Donaghy will be viewed as the outstanding footballer of his generation, ahead of O'Neill, Gooch etc.
Dempsey played in the CF replay in '89. Refer WJs excellent site: http://mayogaablog.com/
Wasnt there a Reilly came on in the replay in 96?
Navin and Conroy both made their debuts from the bench in 04
There was indeed; Tom Reilly from Kiltimagh if my memory is right. He had been a fringe player for some time never could nail down a regular spot. No disrespect whatever to Tom, but many Mayo fans took his coming on to mean Maughan would have fielded Paddy Bluett before he's give Kevin O'Neill a run.
Tom was from Monaghan and transferred to Castlebar while still a teenager as he was a bank official I believe.
He would smile at being referred to as a Kiltimagh man. One of his long time Mitchels teammates was though.
I thought Reilly was from Mitchells??
My recollection was that they had played together for Mayo & Mitchells and he was just giving him a run for the last few minutes as we had already won the game...... :(
i think full forwards have changed unbelievably in last fifteen/twenty years. Likes of Stephen O'neill, Bernard Brogan, Bradley would have been corner forwards then. Now with the work they do in the gym they have become target men well capable of winning the hard ball themselves. That is why the no.3 role has become so hard. We now have quick strong players playing there kicking off either foot. The gym work they do is crazy. Bernard Brogan is a tank now. 20 yrs ago he would have been a wirey corner forward!
Quote from: muppet on April 08, 2010, 11:38:09 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 08, 2010, 11:35:10 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 08, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2010, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 07, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 07, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.
I didn't think so Muppet but I'm open to correction.
Ros ur an awful man for the anti JOM, so I wont bother arguing with you over it, theres a lot of FFs in Mayo who dont like JOM for his politics and slate him whether he's doing well or not.
As for Keane being the next Cahill, isn;t that exactly what we said about Caff? I think we're too quick to write off Caff, he style is different to what we've seen before, he's never likely to beat his man to the ball everytime but what he does do is get a hand in where he shouldn't or stick to them like glue when they have it. I'd stick with him, he'll learn and grow.
2 seperate notes, we see have to have kevin cahill up on a pedestal, yes a great full back but i think he's getting better with every failed FB we get. Also current FBs have probably the toughest full forward to deal with since the Bomber, maybe ever, I think Donaghy will be viewed as the outstanding footballer of his generation, ahead of O'Neill, Gooch etc.
Dempsey played in the CF replay in '89. Refer WJs excellent site: http://mayogaablog.com/
Wasnt there a Reilly came on in the replay in 96?
Navin and Conroy both made their debuts from the bench in 04
There was indeed; Tom Reilly from Kiltimagh if my memory is right. He had been a fringe player for some time never could nail down a regular spot. No disrespect whatever to Tom, but many Mayo fans took his coming on to mean Maughan would have fielded Paddy Bluett before he's give Kevin O'Neill a run.
Tom was from Monaghan and transferred to Castlebar while still a teenager as he was a bank official I believe.
He would smile at being referred to as a Kiltimagh man. One of his long time Mitchels teammates was though.
Who??
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 08, 2010, 11:39:02 PM
I thought Reilly was from Mitchells??
My recollection was that they had played together for Mayo & Mitchells and he was just giving him a run for the last few minutes as we had already won the game...... :(
A Jeysus I don't mind a bit of bashing some facts wouldn't go amiss. Tom came on in the replay not the drawn game. We never had a lead to give anyone a run in the replay.
His entry was memorable though as he ran through two Meathmen as he ran onto the pitch hitting them both at the same time.
Quote from: stephenite on April 08, 2010, 11:23:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 08, 2010, 11:22:03 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 08, 2010, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 08, 2010, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 07, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 07, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: Foreverhopeful on April 07, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final
Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also
I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.
I didn't think so Muppet but I'm open to correction.
Ros ur an awful man for the anti JOM, so I wont bother arguing with you over it, theres a lot of FFs in Mayo who dont like JOM for his politics and slate him whether he's doing well or not.
As for Keane being the next Cahill, isn;t that exactly what we said about Caff? I think we're too quick to write off Caff, he style is different to what we've seen before, he's never likely to beat his man to the ball everytime but what he does do is get a hand in where he shouldn't or stick to them like glue when they have it. I'd stick with him, he'll learn and grow.
2 seperate notes, we see have to have kevin cahill up on a pedestal, yes a great full back but i think he's getting better with every failed FB we get. Also current FBs have probably the toughest full forward to deal with since the Bomber, maybe ever, I think Donaghy will be viewed as the outstanding footballer of his generation, ahead of O'Neill, Gooch etc.
Dempsey played in the CF replay in '89. Refer WJs excellent site: http://mayogaablog.com/
Wasnt there a Reilly came on in the replay in 96?
Navin and Conroy both made their debuts from the bench in 04
Tom Reilly, believe me it wasn't his debut. Search youtube for a cracking goal against the Rossies in 1988 (I think) set up by a young Liam McHale.
Tom must've been a ripe old age when he came on in 1996
Ripe! Almost rotten on the tree. Monaghan man in the bank that played with Mitchels and became 'more Mayo than the Mayos themselves' His son was 6 on U21 s this year. How he was embraced in Mayo. We loved him with his long curly blonde hair and always a hint of a tummy.
I still cant get over his appearance in Sept 96. And it was nt just that he was well past the 35 mark. Hell he was hardly a serious player at club level by then - but had been it has to be said. Then he runs straight in and the first thing he does is slaps Darren Fay straight in the jaw. It wasn't a good sign that Fay didn't bother gettin annoyed. Mother of God, what were they thinking?
QuoteWe never had a lead to give anyone a run in the replay.
Didn't we have a six point cushion at one stage in the 2nd half of the replay as well???
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 08, 2010, 11:55:50 PM
QuoteWe never had a lead to give anyone a run in the replay.
Didn't we have a six point cushion at one stage in the 2nd half of the replay as well???
Didn't think it was as big a lead late on as the drawn game.
love the way we have ended up at 96 final after my original statement about paddy navin! Ya can't beat the football talk.
Anyone have an idea of the A v B teams that played trial game last weekend.
From reading mayogaablog.com, it appears that BJP played CHF on Howley and scored 1-1. Not sure how he got on other than that.........
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 08, 2010, 11:28:55 PM
QuoteKeith Higgins apart, I haven't seen a corner back with the self-discipline necessary to stick to his primary duties since the days of Mortimer—and Flanagan in '96 anyway
That's probably true although A Higgins and G Ruane were both genuine backs rather than just good footballers which is what we have an awful lot of.
McG vs Donaghy?? Would be interesting to see but not a hope of it happening. IMO, McG wouldn't have a hope against Donaghy. If he would, then we should be playing him FF instead of at MF.
I think Caff is still worth a go in the corner. He's ok at FB if he gets cover from the corners and might still be our best option if Conroy/Feeney aren't up to it.
Cahill was a great FB (probably not recognised as being great outside Mayo/Connacht though) partly because 1) he had two good corner backs 2) Mayo probably had the top midfield/Half backs/half forwards in terms of ball-winning in the country. Not to take away from the man but it's easy to be a great FB when you have that kind of protection instead of the opposition having all the time in the world to rain ball in on top of you as happened Heaney in 04/06.
Johnno not naming the team til Sunday again.......Off with his head!!! ;)
I think Reilly was 38 when he came on in 96 but I could be wrong on that. Exceptionally foolish move by Maughan......
You may well be right about him not having a hope. And your spot on about it never happening. we re too sensible to try anything like that. We would never have played a midfielder like McAnnallen at fb or relocated the second McMahon from hf to corner back to do a marking job. But if he cant mark Donaghy then we certainly have nobody else that could even drag him down. But I can t think of a county that has including Tommy Griffin. Cork s Shields? No. McCloy, Bastic, Hanley, none.
On the subject of versatility, Kerry is a great example of a study in versatility. In my time you had John O Keefe (midfield to full-back) Paudie Lynch ( 11, Midfield, hb and corner) Power ( wing back and half forward) Seanie Walsh ( FF, Midfield and Full back) Paudie ( midfield, wing back and corner) Moynihan( midfield, hb and fb) Griffin ( midfield, hb and fb) McCarty ( cb, fb and chb). These fellas were prepared to be adaptable to suit the teams needs and as their careers evolved. In this county we seem to think players were branded with a number on their arses at birth. Kerry have also been unashamed about playing basketball players and have had more of them than ourselves, but unlike us they dont seem to beat themselves up about it. There s Quirke and Donaghy at the moment. There was a Brian ? Walsh? played against Mayo in 96. And even before Der Bomber Dwyer was unashamededly tring out a fathach at 14 straight out of the hoops game. It didn't work but he knew what he was at. Cant remember yer mans name but I ll find out.
I ve no doubt that McGar would make a good target man himself but like McHale before him I d say you d have a job convincing him playing anywhere except midfield - unfortunately. Mayo players can be a bit inflexible at times for some reason.
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 08, 2010, 11:55:50 PM
QuoteWe never had a lead to give anyone a run in the replay.
Didn't we have a six point cushion at one stage in the 2nd half of the replay as well???
Christ above, I hope not. Maybe it was worse than I remember. And believe me I ve tried very hard to forget. f**king thing should never have gone to a replay. Reilly substitution was an act of desperation tbh. Even in the canal end it was clear we were brown bread by then.
ya it's crazy that stuff. If i was Mcgarrity i'd be running for the 14 jersey. Maybe his ego won't be massaged enough if he thinks he's not needed in midfield and someone else is pulling down the skyscrapers?
I'm not saying that Mcgarrity has an ego but it may be a reason. He's used to being the one doing all the high-fielding in the middle and he gets on ball around there a fair bit laying it off etc. (getting his hands on plenty of the ball just like basketball). In FF he wouldn't be getting that same fix if you get me? McGarrity wouldn't be a traditional GAA player in that sense so he wouldn't be a "give me any old jersey" type of lad
Quote from: moysider on April 09, 2010, 12:38:27 AM
You may well be right about him not having a hope. And your spot on about it never happening. we re too sensible to try anything like that. We would never have played a midfielder like McAnnallen at fb or relocated the second McMahon from hf to corner back to do a marking job. But if he cant mark Donaghy then we certainly have nobody else that could even drag him down. But I can t think of a county that has including Tommy Griffin. Cork s Shields? No. McCloy, Bastic, Hanley, none.
On the subject of versatility, Kerry is a great example of a study in versatility. In my time you had John O Keefe (midfield to full-back) Paudie Lynch ( 11, Midfield, hb and corner) Power ( wing back and half forward) Seanie Walsh ( FF, Midfield and Full back) Paudie ( midfield, wing back and corner) Moynihan( midfield, hb and fb) Griffin ( midfield, hb and fb) McCarty ( cb, fb and chb). These fellas were prepared to be adaptable to suit the teams needs and as their careers evolved. In this county we seem to think players were branded with a number on their arses at birth. Kerry have also been unashamed about playing basketball players and have had more of them than ourselves, but unlike us they dont seem to beat themselves up about it. There s Quirke and Donaghy at the moment. There was a Brian ? Walsh? played against Mayo in 96. And even before Der Bomber Dwyer was unashamededly tring out a fathach at 14 straight out of the hoops game. It didn't work but he knew what he was at. Cant remember yer mans name but I ll find out.
I ve no doubt that McGar would make a good target man himself but like McHale before him I d say you d have a job convincing him playing anywhere except midfield - unfortunately. Mayo players can be a bit inflexible at times for some reason.
Brian Clarke from Dr Crokes. Handy basketballer back in the day alright.
Quote from: moysider on April 09, 2010, 12:38:27 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 08, 2010, 11:28:55 PM
QuoteKeith Higgins apart, I haven't seen a corner back with the self-discipline necessary to stick to his primary duties since the days of Mortimer—and Flanagan in '96 anyway
That's probably true although A Higgins and G Ruane were both genuine backs rather than just good footballers which is what we have an awful lot of.
McG vs Donaghy?? Would be interesting to see but not a hope of it happening. IMO, McG wouldn't have a hope against Donaghy. If he would, then we should be playing him FF instead of at MF.
I think Caff is still worth a go in the corner. He's ok at FB if he gets cover from the corners and might still be our best option if Conroy/Feeney aren't up to it.
Cahill was a great FB (probably not recognised as being great outside Mayo/Connacht though) partly because 1) he had two good corner backs 2) Mayo probably had the top midfield/Half backs/half forwards in terms of ball-winning in the country. Not to take away from the man but it's easy to be a great FB when you have that kind of protection instead of the opposition having all the time in the world to rain ball in on top of you as happened Heaney in 04/06.
Johnno not naming the team til Sunday again.......Off with his head!!! ;)
I think Reilly was 38 when he came on in 96 but I could be wrong on that. Exceptionally foolish move by Maughan......
You may well be right about him not having a hope. And your spot on about it never happening. we re too sensible to try anything like that. We would never have played a midfielder like McAnnallen at fb or relocated the second McMahon from hf to corner back to do a marking job. But if he cant mark Donaghy then we certainly have nobody else that could even drag him down. But I can t think of a county that has including Tommy Griffin. Cork s Shields? No. McCloy, Bastic, Hanley, none.
On the subject of versatility, Kerry is a great example of a study in versatility. In my time you had John O Keefe (midfield to full-back) Paudie Lynch ( 11, Midfield, hb and corner) Power ( wing back and half forward) Seanie Walsh ( FF, Midfield and Full back) Paudie ( midfield, wing back and corner) Moynihan( midfield, hb and fb) Griffin ( midfield, hb and fb) McCarty ( cb, fb and chb). These fellas were prepared to be adaptable to suit the teams needs and as their careers evolved. In this county we seem to think players were branded with a number on their arses at birth. Kerry have also been unashamed about playing basketball players and have had more of them than ourselves, but unlike us they dont seem to beat themselves up about it. There s Quirke and Donaghy at the moment. There was a Brian ? Walsh? played against Mayo in 96. And even before Der Bomber Dwyer was unashamededly tring out a fathach at 14 straight out of the hoops game. It didn't work but he knew what he was at. Cant remember yer mans name but I ll find out.
I ve no doubt that McGar would make a good target man himself but like McHale before him I d say you d have a job convincing him playing anywhere except midfield - unfortunately. Mayo players can be a bit inflexible at times for some reason.
Am I missing something here? Heaney's been playing FB for the best part of ten years!!
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 09, 2010, 03:54:58 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 09, 2010, 12:38:27 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 08, 2010, 11:28:55 PM
QuoteKeith Higgins apart, I haven't seen a corner back with the self-discipline necessary to stick to his primary duties since the days of Mortimer—and Flanagan in '96 anyway
That's probably true although A Higgins and G Ruane were both genuine backs rather than just good footballers which is what we have an awful lot of.
McG vs Donaghy?? Would be interesting to see but not a hope of it happening. IMO, McG wouldn't have a hope against Donaghy. If he would, then we should be playing him FF instead of at MF.
I think Caff is still worth a go in the corner. He's ok at FB if he gets cover from the corners and might still be our best option if Conroy/Feeney aren't up to it.
Cahill was a great FB (probably not recognised as being great outside Mayo/Connacht though) partly because 1) he had two good corner backs 2) Mayo probably had the top midfield/Half backs/half forwards in terms of ball-winning in the country. Not to take away from the man but it's easy to be a great FB when you have that kind of protection instead of the opposition having all the time in the world to rain ball in on top of you as happened Heaney in 04/06.
Johnno not naming the team til Sunday again.......Off with his head!!! ;)
I think Reilly was 38 when he came on in 96 but I could be wrong on that. Exceptionally foolish move by Maughan......
You may well be right about him not having a hope. And your spot on about it never happening. we re too sensible to try anything like that. We would never have played a midfielder like McAnnallen at fb or relocated the second McMahon from hf to corner back to do a marking job. But if he cant mark Donaghy then we certainly have nobody else that could even drag him down. But I can t think of a county that has including Tommy Griffin. Cork s Shields? No. McCloy, Bastic, Hanley, none.
On the subject of versatility, Kerry is a great example of a study in versatility. In my time you had John O Keefe (midfield to full-back) Paudie Lynch ( 11, Midfield, hb and corner) Power ( wing back and half forward) Seanie Walsh ( FF, Midfield and Full back) Paudie ( midfield, wing back and corner) Moynihan( midfield, hb and fb) Griffin ( midfield, hb and fb) McCarty ( cb, fb and chb). These fellas were prepared to be adaptable to suit the teams needs and as their careers evolved. In this county we seem to think players were branded with a number on their arses at birth. Kerry have also been unashamed about playing basketball players and have had more of them than ourselves, but unlike us they dont seem to beat themselves up about it. There s Quirke and Donaghy at the moment. There was a Brian ? Walsh? played against Mayo in 96. And even before Der Bomber Dwyer was unashamededly tring out a fathach at 14 straight out of the hoops game. It didn't work but he knew what he was at. Cant remember yer mans name but I ll find out.
I ve no doubt that McGar would make a good target man himself but like McHale before him I d say you d have a job convincing him playing anywhere except midfield - unfortunately. Mayo players can be a bit inflexible at times for some reason.
Am I missing something here? Heaney's been playing FB for the best part of ten years!!
And Barry Moran moved from MF (fair enough, he was never regular there) to FF. And Moran is far more suited to FF than McG in my eyes, even though it didn't really appear that way last year. McGs best position is MF, and we should leave him there.
I don't think he's mobile enough to be playing FB on the likes of Donaghy, and it would weaken our midfield to move him back. We've played Conroy on Donaghy before and he did very well, so let's not try to create more problems for ourselves than we already have - we have enough of them after all ;)
R&GS mentioned that he wouldn't be surprised to see Alan Feeney get the No 3 jersey on Sunday. I would have liked to see Feeney get a chance at number 3 (or even 2 or 4) earlier in the league, but R&GS said he was injured. I think it could be a bit unfair on him to throw him in on Sunday against that FF line without having had a couple of games to bed in. But I suppose if he did well, at least we know we have a real option.
Like Moysider, I can't see why Aidan Higgins was dispensed with a couple of years ago. He was a calm, tough, defend-first, experienced defender - God knows, they're not plentiful in the squad.
I see Cork have made nine changes to the team for Sunday.
I don't think for a moment that means Counihan is not taking the result seriously; most of the incomers are very experienced and capable performers. Given the hype that has built up, the dogfight for championship places is going to be interesting. For many who will be on show, this could be their last chance to catch Counihan's eye.
Still, all those changes have to disturb the sides's rhythm; I'm far happier to see nine changes than none at all!
Mayo have been cat at times throughout the league. But when you think about it, the wins they had were deserved-even if they were very lucky at times and the one they lost was down to their own shortcomings. Dublin didn't outclass them but they shot fewer wides.
Mistakes and inexperience are part and parcel of the learning process and Mayo have made plenty of the former because of the latter. They are still very much on course and even if they don't win the league, Johnno and his troops have given a good account of themselves.
I've been thinking about goals at either end of the field and I have to say Mayo have done quite well in both cases. The total of goals conceded has been skewed by the last gasp ones by Derry and Kerry. If either had been scored earlier in the respective games, I'd be concerned alright but they were due to lapses of concentration and the quare fella on the sideline can be relied on to make sure the backs stay awake to the end from now on. To my way of thinking, the said quare fella can stick Conoreen or Ronny in at fullback as long as Cork has no more success at beating Clarkie than any other side to date.
Up front, I think it's fair to say we have been doing quite well and Conoreen damn near added to the total in spectacular fashion. With all their stumbling and fumbling, the lads have still managed to knock in a total any one could reasonably be proud of.
I plan to go along to see them continue the good work and, win or lose, I think the result will be a positive one and will bring the side along a good deal.
BTW: I'm taking up Paddy Power's odds; any other takers?
And even before Der Bomber Dwyer was unashamededly tring out a fathach at 14 straight out of the hoops game. It didn't work but he knew what he was at. Cant remember yer mans name but I ll find out.
[/quote]
Tim Regan from Spa was tried full forward without success...was probably that little bit too old at the time to adapt to a new style of game. Tim never played a championship game for Kerry.
From 1975 until Bomber started in 1978 the following started at 14 for Kerry:
Ray Prendiville, John Bunyan, Mike Sheehy, John Egan, John O'Keeffe, and Sean Walsh.
1974 had ex-corner back Seamus MacGearailt there, while 1973's 2 games featured one Mick O'Dwyer at 14.
If I was JOM I would want to find out three things from the Cork game:
1. Who will play at FB in the championship?
2. Who will play at FF in the championship?
3. How might our defence cope with a big powerful forward line?
Now is the time to know the answers to these questions - not later in the year when the stakes are much higher.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on April 09, 2010, 02:33:18 PM
And even before Der Bomber Dwyer was unashamededly tring out a fathach at 14 straight out of the hoops game. It didn't work but he knew what he was at. Cant remember yer mans name but I ll find out.
Tim Regan from Spa was tried full forward without success...was probably that little bit too old at the time to adapt to a new style of game. Tim never played a championship game for Kerry.
From 1975 until Bomber started in 1978 the following started at 14 for Kerry:
Ray Prendiville, John Bunyan, Mike Sheehy, John Egan, John O'Keeffe, and Sean Walsh.
1974 had ex-corner back Seamus MacGearailt there, while 1973's 2 games featured one Mick O'Dwyer at 14.
[/quote]
Both Prendiville and Bunyan are mentioned in Tom Humphries book on Kerry v Dublin. Prendiville scored the first championship goal of the Dwyer era but then was dropped, I think, and did get a medal before moving to Meath. I think Bunyan preferred the hurling but was involved at the start too.
Its amazing what the passage of time and a degree of bile and bias will do to history. Reading some posts lately I was left wondering how many Mayo posters saw any NfL league games in1995/96 or did they all wait for the final stages of championship!.... but just for the record:
Tom Reilly (Mitchels and Castlebar) came out of retirement in 1995 and played in all/nearly all Mayo's league campaign in Div3! In fact the two stars of that campaign were Flanagan in defence and Reilly in attack. I'm sure reports of these games are archived by Western/Mayo News/Telegraph. There might have been no championship revival in '96 had it not been for the foresight of Maughan to bring Flanagan, Holmes and Reilly back to mix with the youngsters in what was a torrid campaign( Match v Wexford moved to a bog of a pitch stands out in my mind). Any player who dons the Green and Red should been given respect especially by those of us who wouldn't tie their laces. Excuse the rant. I'm right fine now.
Quote from: mrhardyannual on April 09, 2010, 05:03:37 PM
Its amazing what the passage of time and a degree of bile and bias will do to history. Reading some posts lately I was left wondering how many Mayo posters saw any NfL league games in1995/96 or did they all wait for the final stages of championship!.... but just for the record:
Tom Reilly (Mitchels and Castlebar) came out of retirement in 1995 and played in all/nearly all Mayo's league campaign in Div3! In fact the two stars of that campaign were Flanagan in defence and Reilly in attack. I'm sure reports of these games are archived by Western/Mayo News/Telegraph. There might have been no championship revival in '96 had it not been for the foresight of Maughan to bring Flanagan, Holmes and Reilly back to mix with the youngsters in what was a torrid campaign( Match v Wexford moved to a bog of a pitch stands out in my mind). Any player who dons the Green and Red should been given respect especially by those of us who wouldn't tie their laces. Excuse the rant. I'm right fine now.
I thought they were one club. :P PS, there was a six point cushion in the replay... We went 1-4 to 0-1 up after the brawl I do believe. :-\
I hope that these suggestions that McG wouldn't play at all if he was put in FF are rubbish?? If they are even partially true, he (or any other player with that attitude) should be told to sling his hook. As I said, I doubt it's true
Would be interesting to see a FB line of O'Malley Feeney Caff.
Quote from: mrhardyannual on April 09, 2010, 05:03:37 PM
Its amazing what the passage of time and a degree of bile and bias will do to history. Reading some posts lately I was left wondering how many Mayo posters saw any NfL league games in1995/96 or did they all wait for the final stages of championship!.... but just for the record:
Tom Reilly (Mitchels and Castlebar) came out of retirement in 1995 and played in all/nearly all Mayo's league campaign in Div3! In fact the two stars of that campaign were Flanagan in defence and Reilly in attack. I'm sure reports of these games are archived by Western/Mayo News/Telegraph. There might have been no championship revival in '96 had it not been for the foresight of Maughan to bring Flanagan, Holmes and Reilly back to mix with the youngsters in what was a torrid campaign( Match v Wexford moved to a bog of a pitch stands out in my mind). Any player who dons the Green and Red should been given respect especially by those of us who wouldn't tie their laces. Excuse the rant. I'm right fine now.
The results are there alright and, courtesy of Willie Joe's mayogaablog.com, I had a brief look at them. Maybe, just maybe, you should have done the same. If you had taken the trouble to do this, you mightn't have wasted a perfectly good rant!
Tom Reilly took no part in the first two games; against Galway and Roscommon respectively.
He came on as a sub for the third one (v Antrim) and scored 0-1.
He played the next one against Monaghan but was held scoreless.
He held his place for the game v Wexford, the one that stands out in your mind, but he was taken off and replaced by Pat Fallon.
He played no part in the next one v Sligo.
The last game of the league series was against Fermanagh and here he came on as a sub and scored 0-1.
He took no part in the QF against Meath.
Finally, he played his second full game in the semi final defeat where he scored a total of 0-3, 0- 2 from frees.
Mayo were involved in a total of 9 games in the league campaign you refer to.
He started in 3 but managed to finish only two of these.
He didn't figure at all in 4 out of 9 games. That's hardly "and played in all/nearly all Mayo's league campaign in Div3!"
Along the way, he scored 0-3 from play and 0-2 from placed balls.
Indeed there may not have been a championship revival in 1996 if Maughan hadn't the 'foresight' to bring him back but I'm curious to know how you can see any connection between his form in the league and Mayo's subsequent championship run. After all, Maughan saw fit to ignore him throughout the campaign until the last few minutes of the replay.
Maybe I'm missing something; would you please start up another rant and enlighten me?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 09, 2010, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on April 09, 2010, 05:03:37 PM
Its amazing what the passage of time and a degree of bile and bias will do to history. Reading some posts lately I was left wondering how many Mayo posters saw any NfL league games in1995/96 or did they all wait for the final stages of championship!.... but just for the record:
Tom Reilly (Mitchels and Castlebar) came out of retirement in 1995 and played in all/nearly all Mayo's league campaign in Div3! In fact the two stars of that campaign were Flanagan in defence and Reilly in attack. I'm sure reports of these games are archived by Western/Mayo News/Telegraph. There might have been no championship revival in '96 had it not been for the foresight of Maughan to bring Flanagan, Holmes and Reilly back to mix with the youngsters in what was a torrid campaign( Match v Wexford moved to a bog of a pitch stands out in my mind). Any player who dons the Green and Red should been given respect especially by those of us who wouldn't tie their laces. Excuse the rant. I'm right fine now.
I thought they were one club. :P PS, there was a six point cushion in the replay... We went 1-4 to 0-1 up after the brawl I do believe. :-\
The 6 point lead in the replay was mentioned in the context of the much maligned JM giving a mate a run out presumably assuming the game was won. I seriously doubt any manager has ever emptied the bench after going up 6 points early in a game, especially it is was a replay of a game where you had lost a 6 pint lead late on.
Thanks Lar for the kick in the ass. I think I made my own point re. each of us distorting history to a degree. I may have been a little heavy with the butter but still contend that Reilly made a huge contribution within the squad that year. In training he and Gary Ruane( who didn't feature on any c/ship team that year) were immense. Reilly was bedevilled by injury. He continued to play post All-Ire and featured in 3 league games in Div.2. I would have checked the archive but hadn't come across Willie Joe's blog until you cited it. Jam on the bread! It's a great source.
Finally no rant today. Few pints last night, breakfast delivered to the bed this morning, sun shining, sky blue..... what more could a man want. Bring on the Langers ;D
Quote from: mrhardyannual on April 10, 2010, 02:31:19 PM
Thanks Lar for the kick in the ass. I think I made my own point re. each of us distorting history to a degree. I may have been a little heavy with the butter but still contend that Reilly made a huge contribution within the squad that year. In training he and Gary Ruane( who didn't feature on any c/ship team that year) were immense. Reilly was bedevilled by injury. He continued to play post All-Ire and featured in 3 league games in Div.2. I would have checked the archive but hadn't come across Willie Joe's blog until you cited it. Jam on the bread! It's a great source.
Finally no rant today. Few pints last night, breakfast delivered to the bed this morning, sun shining, sky blue..... what more could a man want. Bring on the Langers ;D
No problem at all. Glad to see you onboard and I think you have what it takes to last the pace. As you may already have noticed, a true
blue green & red supporter never lets facts get in the way of a good row; opinions or, better still, prejudices are all you need to get started!
Talking of that sound man, Willie Joe, I have one or two with him but I don't think it did either of us any harm.
I'll plump on a draw myself. 1-12 to 0-15. Mayo with the goal.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 09, 2010, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: mrhardyannual on April 09, 2010, 05:03:37 PM
Its amazing what the passage of time and a degree of bile and bias will do to history. Reading some posts lately I was left wondering how many Mayo posters saw any NfL league games in1995/96 or did they all wait for the final stages of championship!.... but just for the record:
Tom Reilly (Mitchels and Castlebar) came out of retirement in 1995 and played in all/nearly all Mayo's league campaign in Div3! In fact the two stars of that campaign were Flanagan in defence and Reilly in attack. I'm sure reports of these games are archived by Western/Mayo News/Telegraph. There might have been no championship revival in '96 had it not been for the foresight of Maughan to bring Flanagan, Holmes and Reilly back to mix with the youngsters in what was a torrid campaign( Match v Wexford moved to a bog of a pitch stands out in my mind). Any player who dons the Green and Red should been given respect especially by those of us who wouldn't tie their laces. Excuse the rant. I'm right fine now.
I thought they were one club. :P PS, there was a six point cushion in the replay... We went 1-4 to 0-1 up after the brawl I do believe. :-\
Sure Breaffy is a suburb of the town now, have the Breaffy lads decided to rename themselves Castlebar Breaffys.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2010, 02:15:02 PM
I see Cork have made nine changes to the team for Sunday.
I don't think for a moment that means Counihan is not taking the result seriously; most of the incomers are very experienced and capable performers. Given the hype that has built up, the dogfight for championship places is going to be interesting. For many who will be on show, this could be their last chance to catch Counihan's eye.
Still, all those changes have to disturb the sides's rhythm; I'm far happier to see nine changes than none at all!
Mayo have been cat at times throughout the league. But when you think about it, the wins they had were deserved-even if they were very lucky at times and the one they lost was down to their own shortcomings. Dublin didn't outclass them but they shot fewer wides.
Mistakes and inexperience are part and parcel of the learning process and Mayo have made plenty of the former because of the latter. They are still very much on course and even if they don't win the league, Johnno and his troops have given a good account of themselves.
I've been thinking about goals at either end of the field and I have to say Mayo have done quite well in both cases. The total of goals conceded has been skewed by the last gasp ones by Derry and Kerry. If either had been scored earlier in the respective games, I'd be concerned alright but they were due to lapses of concentration and the quare fella on the sideline can be relied on to make sure the backs stay awake to the end from now on. To my way of thinking, the said quare fella can stick Conoreen or Ronny in at fullback as long as Cork has no more success at beating Clarkie than any other side to date.
Up front, I think it's fair to say we have been doing quite well and Conoreen damn near added to the total in spectacular fashion. With all their stumbling and fumbling, the lads have still managed to knock in a total any one could reasonably be proud of.
I plan to go along to see them continue the good work and, win or lose, I think the result will be a positive one and will bring the side along a good deal.
BTW: I'm taking up Paddy Power's odds; any other takers?
Yep. I am taking them at 15/2 (any draw).
My feeling is 1-11 each
Mayo to win here. On the basis that they need to more. Tyrone don't look too scary and Dublin will go hard for the win. Besides with this new more accountable timing draws are as rare as hen's teeth.
QuoteIndeed there may not have been a championship revival in 1996 if Maughan hadn't the 'foresight' to bring him back
Reilly and Larry Finnerty were the the gel of experience, character and humour that brought that panel together. Without them i doubt very much that Mayo team would ahve got out of Connacht never mind beat Kerry.
Cork 0-01 Mayo 0-01
Howley long ball to Aidan O'Shea who fed Dillon - scored from a tight angle.
Fintan Gould shot pushed over the bar by David Clarke.
Cork 0-01 Mayo 0-02
Aidan O'Shea fouled, Dillon points the free. Mayo seem to be winning all the breaks around the middle
Cork 0-02 Mayo 0-03
Missed who got the Cork score. Conor Mortimer free after a fould on Aidan O'Shea. Aidan seems to be really up for it.
Another fould on Aidan O'Shea. Dillon points the free. 4 points to 2.
Cork 0-04 Mayo 0-04
Two points in a minute for Cork. O'Connor with the last score from a free.
Cork 0-05 Mayo 0-04
Colm O'Neill free. Sounds like a fast tempo game.
Cork 0-05 Mayo 0-05
Andy Moran to Aidan O'Shea who fed Conor Mort to score.
Cork 0-07 Mayo 0-05
Two points from play by John Hayes.
In Omagh, Dublin after getting a goal. Dub 1-09 Tyrone 0-07
Chris Barrett from 40 yards. And Seamie O'Shea takes the kick-out and thumps it over.
7 points apiece. Sounds like a great game.
Dublin gone 9 points up.
Level at half-time. Mayo will need to do at least the same in second half as it looks like the Dubs will win.
8 wides, should have another couple of scores but sounds like a good performance overall.
Clipping along nicely now.
Cork 0-07 Mayo 0-11
Great start to 2nd half. Ronaldson, Andy Moran (2) and Conor Mort with 4 points in 4 mins
Cork 0-08 Mayo 0-12
Dillon with free for Mayo. Ciaran Sheehan from play for Cork.
Pat Harte on for uninfluential Tom Parsons.
Cork 0-08 Mayo 0-13
Donie Vaughan took a point from similar position to the goal he got against Monaghan
Cork 0-09 Mayo 0-14
Free from O'Connor for Cork.
Aidan O'Shea from play for Mayo
Cork 0-09 Mayo 0-15
Another from Aidan O'Shea from play.
Mayo dominating now, Cork don't seem too bothered in the second half
Cork 0-10 Mayo 0-15
Game has slowed down now.
Cork 0-10 Mayo 0-16
Aidan O'Shea fouled off the ball, free pointed by Dillon or Mort - didnt hear which.
Alan Freeman on for Mayo, didn't hear who he replaced.
Minds wandering to 2 weeks time I'd say (mine has, that why I heard nothing!), teams just playing out the last few mins.
Why does Vaughan play with Mayo if he is born and breed in Cork....per Mid West?
Cork 0-11 Mayo 0-16
Hopefully we get the same result in 2 weeks time! But Cork didn't play at all in the 2nd half, so it will be a much different game.
Vaughan was born in Cork but the family moved to Ballinrobe a few years ago (not sure how long ago). I wouldn't say he was bred in Cork though... he played underage for Mayo
Nice one. Good to get a run in Croker early in the season.
Of course this result will count for nothing next time out.
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 11, 2010, 04:03:12 PM
Why does Vaughan play with Mayo if he is born and breed in Cork....per Mid West?
Do you think he should drive down to Cork three nights a week for training? :P
Tryone and Derry have been relegated. i believe this means that Mayo now hold the longest uninterupted run in Division 1 without being relegated, dating back to 1999.
(http://www.rte.ie/aertel/images/217-01.gif)
Hmmm.
Well I guess we know now who Cork would rather play in a final in Croke Park. :o
Quote from: Jinxy on April 11, 2010, 04:20:11 PM
Hmmm.
Well I guess we know now who Cork would rather play in a final in Croke Park. :o
Ya, I think we knew that during the week when they made 10 changes! :)
It's nice to win any game and that's my philosophy. I couldn't believe my ears when Mike Finnerty said Mayo don't have to score any more points when they went 5/6 points up with a couple of minutes to go! My own school of thought is that you punish the opponents at every opportunity.
Another win on the road, against a largely experimental Cork team, but someone alluded to the fact that Eugene McGee reckons Cork's squad is the strongest in the country, well to me it seems that Mayo's squad is damn good too. Whether or not they will win the league will be another thing as Cork's big men will be back for that one.
Parsons never got going today. I wonder if he will be a liability in the championship when the stakes are high? Caff didn't do too bad at full back, Barett was very good again and got motm on the radio. To be honest, I can't see Gardiner winning back his place that easily. Also it was nice to hear that Tom Cunniffe was on the panel once again. And if anyone told Mayo fans in general before the league campaign started that we would be in a league final we would have probably laughed and scoffed at the notion.
Just back from Cork. Well what can I say, a fantastic display from Mayo today. They defended from numer 1 to number 15. No real stars in my opinion just an all round team performance, and Mayo where quite accurate today. Everytime a Cork man touched the ball there where 1-4 Mayomen at him. The Cork lads where hounded throughout. Unlike other counties who defend tightly I have seen this year Mayo also attacked and attacked in numbers, mixing up our running game with long balls. Ronaldson seemed to be in a sweeper role again. Mayo made very few errors forced or otherwise and nearly punished Cork every time, twice in succession they punished Cork just before the half, a misspass by a Cork player was punished with a quick free, Quirke kicked the ball out quick, but Mayo where alert, won the kick out and score. A few Mayo players nearly scored off rebounds by blocking balls right up near the Cork goal. I would find it hard to find a man of the match as it was a team effort. Mayo blitzed Cork at the start of the second half, scoring 4 in 3 minutes. In the last 5 minutes Cork did give up, because they where unable to make any headway in the previous 30 of the second half when they had tried. In that last 5 minutes they manage to get Mayo's lead from 6 to 5.
Well, I'm just back from the City of the Funny Porter and had a very pleasant day it has to be said. Especially when I know I will be recouping most of my expenses from Paddy Power tomorrow.
No doubt about it, we are not the finished article yet; it's more a case of a work in progress but things are coming along just fine. I was extremely impressed at the way all our backs stuck to their tasks even when Cork threatened to run riot.
I had nightmares of a complete rout early on in the first half as Cork were dominating midfield and launched attack after attack. It seemed an endless stream of strapping big langers were cleaving our defence at will but it became apparent that their FF line was going to have a hard time getting close to goal.
I think Clarkie was only tested once and he was equal to the task. I can't recall him being seriously tested after that. Throughout the field the amount of ball that Mayo won by harrying and hounding was unreal.
The lilt of Cork voices around me changed to growls and snarls as the game wore on. The likes of 'Glory, Colm, glory' began to change to 'Will you stop running around in circles and do something with the bloody ball, you big b*****ks?'
Colm wasn't the only one either to get this treatment; if there ever was a conspiracy theory, nobody told the Cork fans. Counihan wasn't a happy bunny either or if he was, he has a funny way of showing it. He became increasingly agitated as the game progressed.
I definitely think Cork eased off in the second half as they didn't attempt to step up a gear when Mayo surged ahead. However, part of that was due to the fact that Mayo weren't slackening off one bit.
Cork will definitely be stronger and more focused for the final but then so will Mayo. Cork were by no means an experimental side; most of the replacements have plenty of IC experience but the changes unsettled the overall team. they lacked the cohesion Mayo had.
I intend paying another visit to Paddy Power when he posts the odds.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 11, 2010, 04:20:11 PM
Hmmm.
Well I guess we know now who Cork would rather play in a final in Croke Park. :o
Dublin ???
Quote from: Jen Cui on April 11, 2010, 11:13:52 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 11, 2010, 04:20:11 PM
Hmmm.
Well I guess we know now who Cork would rather play in a final in Croke Park. :o
Dublin ???
Kilkenny footballers!
Counihan didn't show his hand at all. He rested Carey, Shields, Lynch, O Leary, Kissane, Alan O Connor, Kelly, Goulding and Kerrigan. Cadogan is in Portugal with the hurlers, Miskella and P O Neill still injured. Also heard that they are in the middle of very heavy training. He took them to Bere Island last weekend for 3 days of a Boot camps .
and
they played in the wrong studs and the grass was too long the sun was shining too bright so couldn't see mayo in the white shirts
yada yada yada
Quote from: marym on April 11, 2010, 11:52:36 PM
Counihan didn't show his hand at all. He rested Carey, Shields, Lynch, O Leary, Kissane, Alan O Connor, Kelly, Goulding and Kerrigan. Cadogan is in Portugal with the hurlers, Miskella and P O Neill still injured. Also heard that they are in the middle of very heavy training. He took them to Bere Island last weekend for 3 days of a Boot camps .
Delighted. A Cork person at last.
We know all that above by the way. Everybody knows Counihans A list. Well most of them anyway. As much as he does himself anyway. It s fairly obvious.
The three main men for Cork in this league are Kerrigan , Goulding and Kelly. If any of these have an off day or get injured, Mayo have a great chance.
Great day in cork yesterday, weather was fantastic & the day was brightened up no end by Feeneys fan club down the river end.
Cork weren't at the races today at all.
Thought AOS was MOTM, cleaned out 2 men, tormented them. Thought Vaughan did v well & caff had a fine game. There's no way i'd let peadar back in the team. Was v disappointed in Conor, his runs were pathetic, token efforts and more getting in the way than anything else. In contrast to Ronaldo who was busting a gut to make runs, he wouldn't make my championship 15.
What really worries me is that we have no place kicker, it switches between Dillon, mort, varley. Cld one of them not spend an hour a day kicking frees a la Maurice Sheridan, practice makes perfect and all that.
Think the criticism of parsons was a bit harsh, I didn't think he had a stinker.
Enjoyed the few pints in cork last nite & was nice to be able to say a 5 pt win when people asked how the match went
Quote from: rosnarun on April 12, 2010, 12:08:15 AM
and
they played in the wrong studs and the grass was too long the sun was shining too bright so couldn't see mayo in the white shirts
yada yada yada
I hope JOM is a bit more self-critical than yourself, there is nothing wrong with acknowledging the fact your opponents were understrength and that this has to be considered when evaluating your own performance. In saying that it was still a very good win for Mayo and they seem to be coming along nicely, still the league final will tell us more.
For the next day O Shea willl probably be marked by either Cadogan or Canty.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on April 12, 2010, 05:49:07 PM
Great day in cork yesterday, weather was fantastic & the day was brightened up no end by Feeneys fan club down the river end.
...
Did we miss something? ???
Just a bunch of kids that had a big Feeney flag, Feeney is fantastic or something and were quite cheery, did plenty of shouting and even had a cheer for the MacDanger and myself when we came in
Quote from: Zulu on April 12, 2010, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on April 12, 2010, 12:08:15 AM
and
they played in the wrong studs and the grass was too long the sun was shining too bright so couldn't see mayo in the white shirts
yada yada yada
I hope JOM is a bit more self-critical than yourself, there is nothing wrong with acknowledging the fact your opponents were understrength and that this has to be considered when evaluating your own performance. In saying that it was still a very good win for Mayo and they seem to be coming along nicely, still the league final will tell us more.
#
that was written in response to a long whinge of excuses . mayo Easily beat the cork team that put out last sunday . what more could they do?
if Cork don't have enough respect for themselves their fans or the competition to even try .they should have warned people to keep their money in their pockets and saved a lot of people a lot of time. including My 8 year old Corkonian Nephew at His 1st GAA game . will some one please think of the children.
Cork were pathetic as soon as they went a few points down they even the crap team they pick stopped trying and made the whole day fell like an A V B match in a county with 15 good players.
I know the game has No bearing on the league final but please spare us the Excuses
Most worrying for mayo i see some on reckons Cafferkey had a good game despite the fact the he again failed to catch a single ball first time and was marked absent any time cork ran on the mayo goal in the 1st half. This is a disaster waiting to happen let just hope its not in Croker.
Quote from: Tubberman on April 11, 2010, 04:05:27 PM
Vaughan was born in Cork but the family moved to Ballinrobe a few years ago (not sure how long ago). I wouldn't say he was bred in Cork though... he played underage for Mayo
Just listened to this Mayo News podcast of Mike Finnerty talking to Donie Vaughan after the match on Sunday.
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9474:donal-vaughan-enjoyed-his-return-to-cork&catid=85:sports-news-audio&Itemid=100164
Finnerty mentioned that it must be nice to come down to the county of his birth and win. Got to love Vaughan's reply, paraphrasing a well known Cork man:
"Cork by birth, Mayo by the grace of God" :D :D