Cork V Mayo - What odds on a draw?

[Tubberman]

The main concern in Mayo is Full Back.........and with good reason.  We have had a few terrible experiences in the past ........despite playing a talented footballer like David Heaney there.
When you pull on the No.3 jersey at IC level look who you will probably be facing - Paddy Bradley, Kieran Donaghy, Bernard Brogan, Declan Meehan, Mattie Forde, Sean Kavanagh, Stephen O Neill etc etc.  Need I say any more?  You might not win a game at full back but you can certainly lose a winnable game by being dodgy in that position.
Mayo are no where near ready in that position yet.  And this I fear will be our undoing yet again come the summer.  Certainly if I was an opposing manager I would be targeting that position.
Maybe that's why Billy Joe is being brought back? Not that this will be an automatic fix but what other options are there?

We don't have any obvious options that you could parachute straight into the team for the Championship. So we will probably continue on with Ger Cafferkey and Kieran Conroy, depending on the opposing full forward. As others have said, I can see this being our downfall later in the year.
But I was at the Westport v Ballintubber league match at the weekend, and I couldn't believe how much Kevin Keane had bulked up in the last year. I wasn't at either of the U21 games this year, so hadn't seen him play since last years U21s. He played midfield for Westport the last day, so I couldn't judge him on his full-back play, but he is very big, strong and well able to catch a high ball and deliver it long and accurately.
Is he training with the senior panel at the moment? If not, I really think he's worth bringing in for a few training matches and see how he gets on. It's not like we have many other options. If nothing else, it would give Keane experience for next year, and Johnno could decide if he's a real option for starting FB next year (if not sooner).

[Foreverhopeful]

Can i ask Mayo posters to mention full backs that they know from club football / schools football in years gone past that they thought were the real deal in that position.( Might not be playing there anymore) Want to get an idea of possible players who could play there. JOM has sent me on this scouting mission! So if you know or coached players who wore the no. 3 and had potential please post.

I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final

[Farrandeelin]

Shane McHale. Played there for most of Knockmore's championship games last year. Maybe that's why Dempsey played Keane at cornerback in U-21s. I think his best position is at number 3, but others say he is a versatile player and can play anywhere. He will be u-21 next year again.

[Mayo4Sam]

I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final

Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also

[muppet]

I'll start: Paddy Navin - excellent reader of the game. Got injured in 05/06 and curtailed his progress. They say he has lost a bit of pace but if he was training with Mayo his sharpness would improve. He is 26 years old now.
P.S. - only Mayo player to make his debut in an All-Ireland final

Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also

I thought Dempsey definitely played before the final in 1989 maybe in the Connacht Final. There is a picture of him with Willie Joe leaving the field after the Tyrone game. In fact I believe he didn't start that one only due to a personal bereavement.

Mick Conroy in 2004 though?

[Foreverhopeful]

there goes my quiz question!

Not sure thats true, thought Ray Dempsey did also

Did conroy come on against NY that year? It's all gone up in smoke

[rosnarun]

I never said a creditable performance in an AIF was the limit of mayos ambition only that it would signal a decent year for mayo and would be an improvrment on whare JOM was parachuted onto the team in the 1st place.
his reign was meant to the final step instead he has taken the team well backwards thought the talent available has improved greatly .
id far prefer to lose any AIF than be put out in the qualifiers against a derry or meath even a quater final against tyrone
Mayos excellent 12 (13)
Clarke/or omalley 2 class keepers
K hiiggins
T howley
P gardiner
Rmcgarrity
S Osé
Tom parsons
A dillion
A oSé
A moran
C Mortimer
A kilcoyne
these guys would get their place on any team on the country/ even though some will have to be in top notch shape to get on the mayo team with the like of ronaldson bMoran Cunniffe Liam o malley pressing hard.
Talenrt is not the problem its the guy in the Blueshirt

[Zulu]

Clarke/or omalley 2 class keepers
K hiiggins
T howley
P gardiner
Rmcgarrity
S Osé
Tom parsons
A dillion
A oSé
A moran
C Mortimer
A kilcoyne
these guys would get their place on any team on the country

Sorry now, I don't want to be overly negative about these lads but I don't believe there is anyone in Mayo let alone anywhere else that would agree with that statement. If what you say is true, a manager would want to be plying these lads with drink before every game for them not to win an AI. Poor tactics or a dodgy team selection wouldn't prevent a team so laden down with talent win an AI. Sure what chance does a manager have of a fair assessment of his reign if you've got supporters who are so delusional about the standard of player he has got at his disposal.

[western exile]

Clarke/or omalley 2 class keepers
K hiiggins
T howley
P gardiner
Rmcgarrity
S Osé
Tom parsons
A dillion
A oSé
A moran
C Mortimer
A kilcoyne
these guys would get their place on any team on the country

Sorry now, I don't want to be overly negative about these lads but I don't believe there is anyone in Mayo let alone anywhere else that would agree with that statement. If what you say is true, a manager would want to be plying these lads with drink before every game for them not to win an AI. Poor tactics or a dodgy team selection wouldn't prevent a team so laden down with talent win an AI. Sure what chance does a manager have of a fair assessment of his reign if you've got supporters who are so delusional about the standard of player he has got at his disposal.

Nothing delusional there.  With the exception of Kerry and Tyrone (and only because they have had a proven winning formula in recent years with the players they have),  all those Mayo men would get on the panel of every other county with half of them making a starting 15 on most.

[moysider]

Clarke/or omalley 2 class keepers
K hiiggins
T howley
P gardiner
Rmcgarrity
S Osé
Tom parsons
A dillion
A oSé
A moran
C Mortimer
A kilcoyne
these guys would get their place on any team on the country

Sorry now, I don't want to be overly negative about these lads but I don't believe there is anyone in Mayo let alone anywhere else that would agree with that statement. If what you say is true, a manager would want to be plying these lads with drink before every game for them not to win an AI. Poor tactics or a dodgy team selection wouldn't prevent a team so laden down with talent win an AI. Sure what chance does a manager have of a fair assessment of his reign if you've got supporters who are so delusional about the standard of player he has got at his disposal.

Nothing delusional there.  With the exception of Kerry and Tyrone (and only because they have had a proven winning formula in recent years with the players they have),  all those Mayo men would get on the panel of every other county with half of them making a starting 15 on most.

Thing is fellas until these fellas actually put in a serious championship they will never get any respect from neutrals. I would also rate highly most of those listed but might swap a couple of my own - def have a McL on my list. However I can imagine the mirth this causes to neutrals. I honestly believe that Mayo players have often been let down by management- and not just this managemant. My biggest fear about this current set-up is that it is too conservative and safe. Even a little bit fearful of trying new things. An indication of that is when change is slow and things that dont work are tried again. What are the odds that we will revert to type again and end up with the same 3 and 11 again for Sligo as played last championship match. Or even Vaughan shuffled back to corner to accomodate Peadar but no hard choice made for the 5 shirt. Many managers would look at Keane now as possibly the best general purpose fb going forward( with Shane Mchale probably coming into the frame too). I m delighted to see BJP back but why not freshen up things and add in Keane too. And surely yet again Aidan Higgins cant be ignored.

A lot of talk about full-back and rightly so. But there is no 'general purpose' full-back in the country, capable of dealing with Donaghy when he gets good ball, not even in Kerry or Cork. Or even a Cussen.That takes something extra again. Griffin or Shields wouldn't do it and I think we need to be realistic about what a full- back can do one-on-one against what is an assortement of top inter-county forwards.
Bradleys, Brogans, SON, Murphy, Donaghy ask different questions of a full-back.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Clarke/or omalley 2 class keepers
K hiiggins
T howley
P gardiner
Rmcgarrity
S Osé
Tom parsons
A dillion
A oSé
A moran
C Mortimer
A kilcoyne
these guys would get their place on any team on the country

Sure what chance does a manager have of a fair assessment of his reign if you've got supporters who are so delusional about the standard of player he has got at his disposal.

Zulu I can tell you obviously haven't spent much time amongst Mayo people.

[Zulu]

rosnarun claimed they'd make any team in the country and that is simply not true, most starting players from an IC team ranked in the top 10 would make the panel of the other top 10 counties with some of them making the team. But what rosnarun is saying is that these players are excellent IC players, how can you say that about the O'Shea brothers for example when neither of them have started two full seasons of senior IC football?

I think the problem with some lads is they see loads of football in their own county but little in any other county. Look at Micheal O'Se from Kerry as an example, he was the outstanding midfielder for St. Vincents when they won the AI. I saw him play Sigerson with UCC and I thought he'd be a senior Kerry footballer for sure but he can't even make the panel. I can assure you he would be on the Mayo team as he is an outstanding ball winner. I would also wager a small fortune that Aidan O'Shea wouldn't be on the Cork panel at the moment and C Mort wouldn't be on the team. That's not to say i think any of these lads are poor footballers, far from it, they are very good footballers but when you're talking about winning AI's the bar is set very high and I'm not sure some you appreciate that.

I'd liken some of the Mayo players to Ricky Hatton (the boxer), undoubtedly very good but when you get to the very highest levels they don't quite match up. Only Dillion has shown himself to be comfortable at the very highest level for me, C Mort, on occasion, has looked good, Parsons and Kilcoyne look to have the ability but haven't proven themselves yet but the rest aren't quite top level IMO.

[Foreverhopeful]

We need a full-back who can mark the Eoin Bradleys, Bernard Brogans, Stephen O'neills. We have Kieran Conroy to mark the Donaghy's/Bergins (if FF). These first 3 mentioned are all no. 14's  who are all strong men capable on winning their own ball. Ger Cafferkey is not strong enough or aggressive enough to mark these type of players. He is a good defender but not at no.3.
Kevin Keane appears to be an aggressive no. 3 in the mould of Kevin Cahill. Surely he has to be brought in. I think we must be the worst county for not recognising players  who should be in our panel. I follow other counties threads and speak a fair bit with lads from other counties about football stuff. Why do Mayo above any other county (i know it happens in all counties) have so many players not on the panel that should be.
If you were to run a poll Aidan Higgins would top it as the player who most would want to see in the panel, let alone the team. Kevin keane and Shane Mchale to a lesser extent are now mentioned as players who should be on the panel. Aidan Campbell and the Kilcullens are players who have had problems with management but are needed if we want to get competition for all places on the team.

Is JOM not a good manager that he can't deal with these players??? To manage involves looking after ego's etc. You see this year we have a new Conor Mort. He has finally copped on after sitting down with JOM. I dont think we'll be seeing any MJ Mort stuff. And i don't even mind that stuff (it does get people talking about the game) It was Conor's absolute shit attitude and arrogance that bothered me but i think he has seen the light and fair play. He is a good player and has done good things for Mayo but i think he prevented himself from being a great. He has time perhaps to rectify this.
Now why cant JOM bring in Campbell and sit him down. I'd say his wild days are behind him now. Tell him to put his mind on the football and see if he is good enough. Campbell made mistakes but he's not the first one. Is his punishment now never to play for Mayo. He has represented Mayo at all underage groups so surely his dedication there entitles him to a second chance?
There is undoubtedly a new vibe within the Mayo camp this year. Keith Higgins spoke about them being less reliant on Dillon etc. It is true. Seamie O'Shea, Varley, McLoughlin have been a breath of fresh air. Mcgarrity and Parsons look up for it. D Vaughan is looking like an absolute top player. Conor is running around tackling. There is a good attitude amongst the players. They look like they have bonded with each other as a team. I hate saying it but maybe with Nallen and heaney gone the last links to 96 & 97 are gone and this has released the team. The huge cloud of the Nineties may have shifted. Its a little baggage that the panel has had to carry.

[western exile]

Also, with Dillan and C. Mort  being away for the winter was not only a good thing for them, it made the others stand up to their responsibilities too

[macdanger2]

Some awful sh*te being spouted on here. It's time we stopped over-rating our players, it's unfair to them and creates completely unrealistic expectations among supporters.

Without doubt Higgins should be brought into the panel (and probably the team). Keane did have a spell training with the squad during the FBD, he obviously didn't do enough to impress but he's still young so hopefully next year or the following year he will come through.

Campbell should also be given another chance, he appeared to be good enough at underage level. How has he been doing last year/this year for Swinford? Was he U21 this year again?

Good to see BJP back in the squad, for me he as done very little wrong since being one of our best players in 06 AIF. Good utility player and a hard grafter to have on the panel.

For all the criticism of Johnno, there's no recognition of the good performances he finally got out of Kilcoyne last year and SO'S so far this year. No mention of him bringing Varley on to where he's looking like a definite championship starter.

As regards FB, we don't have a star no 3 in the county but Johnno looks like he'll be playing a mixture of Conroy & Caff there - it mightn't be great but for now it's as good as we can get. Pity Feeney got injured, would have liked to see more of him in there. At least the return of Conroy there shows that Johnno knows Caff isn't a natural FB but clearly thinks he may be his best option some of the time anyway.

JOM hasn't done eveything right in his tenure and has made some major mistakes but the bottom line is that he's doing a hell of a lot better than most people thought he would at the start of the year. Long may it continue......

Maigh Eo abu