Programme is about the shameful poaching by the IFA of Irish passport holders. >:( The excerpts shown by way of advertising the programme show big ears Poots defending the IFA, and that arse licking cretin Gerry Armstrong saying and I quote "I regard myself as an Ulsterman. I would never ever have considered representing the Republic of Ireland" >:(
[Edited by Mod3]
Ive heard the likes of this from you before tony - if someone from OWC said the same about Darron Gibson youd go off your head so wise up.
Quote from: hardstation on January 28, 2008, 04:41:50 PM
Don't be fooled by the sash that he's got
He's still, he's still Gerry from the 'rock.
Used to be sound but he's now a c**k
Forgets where he came frooom.
:D :D :D :D
very good HS...Give us a few more
[Edited by Mod3]
I dont think T Fearon represents even 0.01% of the GAABOARD membership with that type of talk. Mods, just delete the thread and dont be giving this malcontent a soapbox to stand on.
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2008, 07:09:47 PM
I dont think T Fearon represents even 0.01% of the GAABOARD membership with that type of talk. Mods, just delete the thread and dont be giving this malcontent a soapbox to stand on.
it wouldn't last too long
Jumping to conclusions lads. It should be made clear to the cnut that he is not welcome on the Falls Road. I wouldn't want anyone to get into trouble for causing him harm. He simply is not worth it. I do not understand how anyne from a nationalist background can represent the IFA side but I respect those who do. But Armstrong's comments are outrageous.
Don't try and defend yourself Tony. Paisley used to pull the same shit. >:(
I wouldnt wish any harm on Gerry Armstrong, but he is a complete twat. I just dont understand how someone from the Falls who played gaelic can sell his soul like that. Maybe it is a city thing. I couldnt imagine any country lad coming out with such garbage.
Well, it takes all sorts. I hope Gerry does get that gong from Lizzie, and there's an open top bus ride up the Falls to show it off.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 28, 2008, 04:34:53 PM
arse licking cretin Gerry Armstrong saying and I quote "I regard myself as an Ulsterman. I would never ever have considered representing the Republic of Ireland"
I wonder what he thinks of Ulsterman Shay Given then?
QuoteI wouldnt wish any harm on Gerry Armstrong, but he is a complete twat.
agree
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2008, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 28, 2008, 04:34:53 PM
arse licking cretin Gerry Armstrong saying and I quote "I regard myself as an Ulsterman. I would never ever have considered representing the Republic of Ireland"
I wonder what he thinks of Ulsterman Shay Given then?
Probably thinks he's a good goalkeeper.
Quote from: Orior on January 28, 2008, 07:28:06 PM
I wouldnt wish any harm on Gerry Armstrong, but he is a complete twat. I just dont understand how someone from the Falls who played gaelic can sell his soul like that. Maybe it is a city thing. I couldnt imagine any country lad coming out with such garbage.
Well, it takes all sorts. I hope Gerry does get that gong from Lizzie, and there's an open top bus ride up the Falls to show it off.
Chris Baird? He has already knocked back the 26 county splinter group when they approached him. ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on January 28, 2008, 07:20:20 PM
Jumping to conclusions lads. It should be made clear to the cnut that he is not welcome on the Falls Road. I wouldn't want anyone to get into trouble for causing him harm. He simply is not worth it. I do not understand how anyne from a nationalist background can represent the IFA side but I respect those who do. But Armstrong's comments are outrageous.
Tony
just for clarification are you from the Falls? what makes you think that he is not welcome there? is it because he played for Norn Iron? Just because he doesnt conform to your ideas doesnt mean he shouldnt be made welcome on the Falls. You need to have a long hard look at yourslf and wise the feck up.
Just because someone's from the Falls road doesn't automatically mean they are or have to be a republican Tony- you're conforming to typical lazy media generalisations. I don't think you'd have made that comment if Gerry Armstrong came from anywhere else bar west Belfast, or perhaps south Armagh.
QuoteI do not understand how anyne from a nationalist background can represent the IFA side but I respect those who do
No you don't Tony- thats a flat out lie, not only do you not respect them but you give them crap at any given opportunity- witness how you start the thread on Gerry Armstrong. If you're going to start a thread like this at least have the courage of your convictions, if you don't respect them; that's fine its your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't make it out to be about respect for someone's opinion that's different to your because thats a load of crap and you know it.
Tony is a [Edited by Mod3] but to be fair to him at least he's consistent and despite having his views ripped to pieces by posters on the board and numerous journalists in the main papers (anyone see the IN last Thur?) he still continues to offer up this tripe!
As for this documentary on tomorrow well it will be interesting to see if it gives a decent account of both sides of the story without trying to force the issue either way! Some chance huh?
Complete rubbish heganboy. I had two young nephews of my wife's doing a bit of work in the house the other night. Both are dyed in the wool North East of Ireland supporters, but I neither killed nor insulted them. I have no objection with anyone from any background playing for the IFA team I do object to Armstrong coming out with this patronising crap though and saying it in such a presumptious way, as if he was speaking for all of us. >:(
Quote from: T Fearon on January 28, 2008, 09:27:46 PM
Complete rubbish heganboy. I had two young nephews of my wife's doing a bit of work in the house the other night. Both are dyed in the wool North East of Ireland supporters, but I neither killed nor insulted them. I have no objection with anyone from any background playing for the IFA team I do object to Armstrong coming out with this patronising crap though and saying it in such a presumptious way, as if he was speaking for all of us. >:(
Just out of curiousity Tony, do these two lads follow the "one true faith" as you like to call it?
One weekend in Glasgow many years ago, a young lady (with a face like the back end of my balls) recognised my accent and asked if I was an Ulsterman. When I said I was, she proceeded to call me all the orange cnuts of the day. Needless to say that relationship was over before it began.
Gerry Armstrong is not and has never been the most popular man from "the Falls" (whatever that means - must ask Let's All Do The Bouncy). This has nothing to do with his footballing career. Fire enough mud and some of it sticks.
However on the topic of the thread and Tony Fearon's initial contribution. Despicable, as is the attempted justification / clarification.
I'll still have respect for anyone who managed to forge an entire career off a routine finish from an outrageous goalkeeping error.
Up to Armstrong who he wants to play for or support. Personally I could never idenitfy with NI, nor do I subscribe to the farcical notion that they are a "country" but if that's Gerry Armstrong's view that he's entitled to it whether he's from the Falls Road, Ballymena or Crossmaglen.
No need for anybody to do the so called right thing to Gerry.
It's the start of a propoganda campaign with Gerry Armstrong doing the Kitchener Ulster Needs You bit.
Probably a sign that these are desperate times for the OWC (not the fanclub)
Already as we speak 2 or 3 young lads from Derry are in the panel for an upcoming u19 International friendly. The football eligibility issue is not up for debate. These lads have a choice and their first choice is not up for debate and that scares a few people.
Quote from: Main Street on January 29, 2008, 12:02:50 AM
No need for anybody to do the so called right thing to Gerry.
It's the start of a propoganda campaign with Gerry Armstrong doing the Kitchener Ulster Needs You bit.
Probably a sign that these are desperate times for the OWC (not the fanclub)
Already as we speak 2 or 3 young lads from Derry are in the panel for an upcoming u19 International friendly. The football eligibility issue is not up for debate. These lads have a choice and their first choice is not up for debate and that scares a few people.
I thought that the debate was about the fact that these lads have a choice, and that riles OWC (the fanclub, not the statelet).
Quote from: screenexile on January 28, 2008, 09:04:11 PM
Tony is a narrow minded twat but to be fair to him at least he's consistent and despite having his views ripped to pieces by posters on the board and numerous journalists in the main papers (anyone see the IN last Thur?) he still continues to offer up this tripe!
As for this documentary on tomorrow well it will be interesting to see if it gives a decent account of both sides of the story without trying to force the issue either way!
Indeed it will. This issue cannot be investigated without looking at the reasons why young nationalists feel uncomfortable playing for NI, what role (if any) the history of blatant sectarianism within football in the north may have had in their decision, what role (if any) the IFA's insistence on GSTQ and the Ulster banner may have had in their decision etc. or it is just gloryhunting?
Will poeple from a nationalist background who have genuine non-political interest in soccer be interviewed or will it be footballing experts like Paul Butler?
The programme has potential to be very interesting, but I doubt that it will.
QuoteThis issue cannot be investigated without looking at the reasons why young nationalists feel uncomfortable playing for NI
I think you mean some young nationalists
Hi All,
To everybody who reported posts on this thread sorry for the delay.
Firstly, Tony, I have deleted that comment in your original post. I have also deleted or modified replies to that comment which directly reference it. At best, that comment was very careless and crass. At worst it was malicious and disgusting. This board allows you to post your contentious views with very little interference, barring something totally out of order. If you repeat something like that again, you will be banned.
Secondly, whilst understandable, some of the personal abuse that Tony got was just as bad in it's own way. Many of you were able to let him know how strongly you disagreed with his statement without resorting to foul language or abuse. I have modified the abusive posts, and new devil, ziggysego, 5Sams and screenexile are now on a warning.
Lads, I know it's very frustrating to read some stuff like that, and I also apologise for not addressing it sooner, but we are trying, fairly successfully, to get away from all that name calling stuff. Everyone is in the same boat.
Thanks for your understanding.
Gerry did not help himself with his partitionist take on things, I am sick of the 'I am an Ulsterman' crap, he is as much of an Ulsterman as Shay Given & Packie Bonner.
Just out of interest I was told that Gerry and his family are originally from Fintona, so bit of a theme him and the Red Hand ;)
Moderator, could I ask you to explain what is offensive about the phrase "Do the right thing?". Did Mick Hucknall get banned from Radio 1 for releasing a song with this lyric?
The fact is that no one had any idea what I had in mind by using this phrase, and I did clarify it. The fact that the majority of people seemed to erroneously misinterpret my comment in the worst possible way,is hardly my fault.
I concur wholeheartedly with your sentiments in terms of abuse, and have, in my opinion, modified my views considerably in the last 12 months. But I am more sinned against than a sinner, I think.
PS Don't be too hard on 5Sams. Down have just won the Mc Kenna Cup and he has obviously lost the run of himself ;D
Well what did you mean by "do the right thing" Tony?
You know very well that the way you left if, it did look like something sinister.
And even after the warning you havent clarified what you actaully meant.
Feck sake you even got Ziggy a warning with that one. He's my OWC buddy!
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 29, 2008, 08:30:51 AM
the IFA's insistence on GSTQ and the Ulster banner may have had in their decision etc. or it is just gloryhunting?
Were talking about joining the ROI squad, you can rule glory-hunting out :D ,we're not Brazil either you know
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on January 29, 2008, 09:19:36 AM
and new devil, ziggysego, 5Sams and screenexile are now on a warning.
:D :D
FFS mods, how can these 4 be on the same warning as Fearon?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 29, 2008, 10:59:51 AM
Moderator, could I ask you to explain what is offensive about the phrase "Do the right thing?". Did Mick Hucknall get banned from Radio 1 for releasing a song with this lyric?
The fact is that no one had any idea what I had in mind by using this phrase, and I did clarify it. The fact that the majority of people seemed to erroneously misinterpret my comment in the worst possible way,is hardly my fault.
Perhaps you mean't he shouldn't be allowed back on the Falls? Something which you have stated in the past.
Quote from: full back on January 29, 2008, 11:14:02 AM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on January 29, 2008, 09:19:36 AM
and new devil, ziggysego, 5Sams and screenexile are now on a warning.
:D :D
FFS mods, how can these 4 be on the same warning as Fearon?
Sometimes people will try to provoke a reaction from you. Its troublemaking but if you respond it could spiral into a tit for tat merry go round.
This is why the mods have to do this.
Frustrating yes, but I myself have fallen for it also (sureyouwill) and understand why the warnings need to go out.
Its like we are the kids and the mods are bating discipline into us, its working for me. I've been good as gold lately :)
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on January 29, 2008, 09:19:36 AM
Hi All,
I have modified the abusive posts, and new devil, ziggysego, 5Sams and screenexile are now on a warning.
Some craic...5000 posts later and ziggysego is hanging by a thread :D :D
Come ziggy ya tool...take the bait ;) :D
Quote from: T Fearon on January 29, 2008, 10:59:51 AM
Moderator, could I ask you to explain what is offensive about the phrase "Do the right thing?". Did Mick Hucknall get banned from Radio 1 for releasing a song with this lyric?
The fact is that no one had any idea what I had in mind by using this phrase, and I did clarify it. The fact that the majority of people seemed to erroneously misinterpret my comment in the worst possible way,is hardly my fault.
I concur wholeheartedly with your sentiments in terms of abuse, and have, in my opinion, modified my views considerably in the last 12 months. But I am more sinned against than a sinner, I think.
PS Don't be too hard on 5Sams. Down have just won the Mc Kenna Cup and he has obviously lost the run of himself ;D
Hi Tony, et al.
Your comment was, as I've said before, was at best careless and at word malicious. Either way it's out of order, in the context in which it was used. Incidentaly I would agree that you have been fine with regard to personal abuse etc.
With regard to the other posters ban, yes it was unfortunate, as most of them are perfectly fine normally, and have never given any hassle. Sadly, because the mods cannot be left open to a charge of 'why do you favour certain posters' or 'how come xxx didn't get a warning for the same thing', we have to apply the rules across the board. (no pun intended).
In this case, I'm sure the warnings are meaningless because I don't expect the same posters to repeat the abuse (much like Bud, Hardy and Tony himself). I'm sure this was a one off because of Tony's original post. A yellow card for retaliation if you like.
So I don't think Ziggy is 'hanging by a thread' at all :)
Hope that helps.
I think any warning/sanction that New Devil receives must be applauded.
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on January 29, 2008, 09:19:36 AM
Hi All,
To everybody who reported posts on this thread sorry for the delay.
Firstly, Tony, I have deleted that comment in your original post. I have also deleted or modified replies to that comment which directly reference it. At best, that comment was very careless and crass. At worst it was malicious and disgusting. This board allows you to post your contentious views with very little interference, barring something totally out of order. If you repeat something like that again, you will be banned.
I would like to refer you to this thread, http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6273.15 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6273.15), where you can see that Tony was issued with a yellow card. Surely this repeated offence should mean a second yellow, followed by a red.
Or are you Gerry Kinneavy is disguise*?
*Please don't interpret this as personal abuse.
Quote from: Minder on January 29, 2008, 11:39:12 AM
I think any warning/sanction that New Devil receives must be applauded.
Why is that minder?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 29, 2008, 11:53:10 AM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on January 29, 2008, 09:19:36 AM
Hi All,
To everybody who reported posts on this thread sorry for the delay.
Firstly, Tony, I have deleted that comment in your original post. I have also deleted or modified replies to that comment which directly reference it. At best, that comment was very careless and crass. At worst it was malicious and disgusting. This board allows you to post your contentious views with very little interference, barring something totally out of order. If you repeat something like that again, you will be banned.
I would like to refer you to this thread, http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6273.15 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6273.15), where you can see that Tony was issued with a yellow card. Surely this repeated offence should mean a second yellow, followed by a red.
Or are you Gerry Kinneavy is disguise*?
*Please don't interpret this as personal abuse.
Correct saffronsam, Tony did indeed get a warning for personal abuse on that thread. However, the way the warning have been working is if you commit the same offence again, then you get the ban. (It's actually 2 Day, 5 Day, Permanent Ban).
We felt it was a bit harsh to ban someone for breaking a totally different rule while under a warning about something else. It's benefit of the doubt.
Tony now has two warnings, 1 for personal abuse issued a while ago, and 1 for inappropriate content today. Another offence in either of these categories will earn a ban.
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 29, 2008, 11:03:01 AM
Well what did you mean by "do the right thing" Tony?
You know very well that the way you left if, it did look like something sinister.
And even after the warning you havent clarified what you actaully meant.
he did imply his concern would be more with an attacker than with Gerry :-
"I wouldn't want anyone to get into trouble for causing him harm. He simply is not worth it. "
Apparently he sees the falls as an area where only those of a similar opinion as himself should be allowed to set foot
Quote from: Orior on January 29, 2008, 05:58:30 AM
I thought that the debate was about the fact that these lads have a choice, and that riles OWC (the fanclub, not the statelet).
I suppose that it's a bit of both, remember
"I regard myself as an Ulsterman".
The fact that the lads have a choice, are now declaring for the Republic, turning their backs on the OWC, riles more than just the fan club.
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on January 29, 2008, 11:59:10 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 29, 2008, 11:53:10 AM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on January 29, 2008, 09:19:36 AM
Hi All,
To everybody who reported posts on this thread sorry for the delay.
Firstly, Tony, I have deleted that comment in your original post. I have also deleted or modified replies to that comment which directly reference it. At best, that comment was very careless and crass. At worst it was malicious and disgusting. This board allows you to post your contentious views with very little interference, barring something totally out of order. If you repeat something like that again, you will be banned.
I would like to refer you to this thread, http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6273.15 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6273.15), where you can see that Tony was issued with a yellow card. Surely this repeated offence should mean a second yellow, followed by a red.
Or are you Gerry Kinneavy is disguise*?
*Please don't interpret this as personal abuse.
Correct saffronsam, Tony did indeed get a warning for personal abuse on that thread. However, the way the warning have been working is if you commit the same offence again, then you get the ban. (It's actually 2 Day, 5 Day, Permanent Ban).
We felt it was a bit harsh to ban someone for breaking a totally different rule while under a warning about something else. It's benefit of the doubt.
Tony now has two warnings, 1 for personal abuse issued a while ago, and 1 for inappropriate content today. Another offence in either of these categories will earn a ban.
Can I have a complete list of the different offences - I've got a number of things I'd like to say to and about Fearon and I reckon if I spread them out, I can get most of them in before I'm banned... ;)
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 29, 2008, 11:53:10 AM
I would like to refer you to this thread, http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6273.15 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=6273.15), where you can see that Tony was issued with a yellow card. Surely this repeated offence should mean a second yellow, followed by a red.
Or are you Gerry Kinneavy is disguise*?
*Please don't interpret this as personal abuse.
As the player fouled on that first occasion, I'm going to do an Oisín and have a word with the ref :
"Go easy on him ref, he's more to be pitied ..", etc.
However I must point out that Fearon's attempt to re-write his original comment is a clear lie. There is no way that hoping that Armstrong is made unwelcome on the Falls is a possible interpretation of the original statement that "somebody should do the right thing". One person would not be enough to make him unwelcome. So perhaps Mr. Fearon could explain what he hoped this "somebody" would do.
I will explain the context of my remark. Just about a year ago, Gerry Armstrong was the feature of a BBC Back to my Roots programme, where he returned to the Falls, chatted with Gerry Adams and agreed with his opinion that the people thereof were unfairly maligned. He also donned his old St John's GAA jersey, visited a few mates from his youth, and all through was the attitude of "this is my culture, these are my people". I recall also he got abuse on OWC after this. I was simply inferring that someone (and it only needs to be one person) should remind him about this programme the next time he visits the Falls and where he came from.
However having played in the same soccer team as his brother for years, I am well aware of the Armstrong family's megolmaniacal tendencies and wont be holding my breath for any sign of humility
Quote from: Main Street on January 29, 2008, 12:19:25 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 29, 2008, 05:58:30 AM
I thought that the debate was about the fact that these lads have a choice, and that riles OWC (the fanclub, not the statelet).
I suppose that it's a bit of both, remember "I regard myself as an Ulsterman".
The fact that the lads have a choice, are now declaring for the Republic, turning their backs on the OWC, riles more than just the fan club.
My cousin chose to play for R.O.I U21'S despited numerous attempts by the IFA over the past year to play for them....This is what the programme is about and I will watch with anticipation to see the IFA view about the so called tapping up of players...He has told me that they phoned him 4-5 times in the space of 1 wk before a match last year to try and get him in the squad even though he has already stated that he has chosen and represented ROI u21's....
Quote from: T Fearon on January 29, 2008, 12:52:31 PMI was simply inferring that someone (and it only needs to be one person) should remind him about this programme the next time he visits the Falls and where he came from.
Grand. Nobody believes that's what you meant. The earlier programme is a Bertie-like rabbit out of the hat. Nobody is fooled.
A couple of years back(?), BBC 6 counties [sic] screened a series of personal profiles featuring well known people from NI, scripted basically by the people themselves, where they were given a camera crew to follow them whilst they explored their roots, formative influences, childhood experiences etc.
One of those featured was Gerry Armstrong. Iirc, he is actually from Beechmount, but he spent most of his childhood at his Aunt? Granny? who lived on the Falls, which was where the programme was mostly set.
Anyhow, they covered his school, GAA club, teachers, priests etc and he told a few yarns about local characters, prominent people etc, as he toured the district. Of course, it will have been edited to suit; nonetheless, there was no sign whatever that anyone was in the least bit unwelcoming, and certainly not his last "guest", whom he interviewed at length as they walked along the street. What was his name again? Adams or something. Involved in politics maybe?
It'll come to me...
Edit: Just noticed Fearon's post about the "Back to my Roots" programme (above). Once again, he's giving an utterly false and misleading impression when he says that "he [Armstrong] got abuse on OWC" for it. The pretty much unanimous verdict was that it was an interesting programme, since it showed an aspect of Armstrong's character and background which wasn't really known to most NI football fans.
If anything, respect for him was enhanced, since posters appreciated his ability to take people as he found them, whether they be his former GAA-playing mates, or his present NI soccer friends, each of whom he seemed to value equally. There was absolutely no resentment that he gave a platform to Gerry Adams* to talk about what life was like on the Falls when they were both young. I wouldn't normally seek to speak for an entire group, but I can say without fear of contradiction that Gerry Armstrong is an all-time hero of every NI soccer fan, whether this is due to a "lucky goal from a goalkeeping error" or not( ;)). Indeed, when Sanchez left, there were quite a few people proposing that Gerry (Armstong, not Adams!) be his replacement, even despite the fact that he's never managed at any significant level before.
Oh, and Fearon's attempt to smear the entire Armstrong family for alleged "megalomania" on the basis of knowing Gerry's brother proves absolutely nothing, other than to confirm just what a prejudiced individual he (Fearon) is.
* - There aren't too many people who could provide a platform for Adams to receive a fair hearing on OWC, but Armstrong managed it, entirely without adverse comment.
so now the right thing was to remind him of a tv show from a year ago ::)
i dont recall much abuse on owc for this show - certainly nobody stated that anyone seeing him at windsor park should do the right thing anyway.
he obviously still has time for the gaa and his old area, but just because he doesnt fit your view of what someone from the falls should be like you think the man shouldnt be allowed back ::)
Oh dear....
I guess I better go back to my anger management programme.
Ziggy, try 5 Sams long weekend Mc Kenna binge. It has finally helped him to erase the memories of Clones 1999 ;D
about time too. weve beatebn spain, england sweden, iceland. we've ha d the ormeou bakery, soin mills flazx, bucshmills whishry, harland and wolf, the ship factory, the crisps factory thats tatyo. , the mall in armagh thats cricketk, the ultsler fry, snow partol, ash, the corrs, free presepertarianism, samus heney, mary peter,. persifdent ulyssess grant in america, ill think of more later/
I'm still dining out on the 2003 All-Ireland Final and 2005 All-Ireland Semi-Final Tony :D
Quote from: wesaysanchez on January 29, 2008, 01:53:45 PM
about time too. weve beatebn spain, england sweden, iceland. we've ha d the ormeou bakery, soin mills flazx, bucshmills whishry, harland and wolf, the ship factory, the crisps factory thats tatyo. , the mall in armagh thats cricketk, the ultsler fry, snow partol, ash, the corrs, free presepertarianism, samus heney, mary peter,. persifdent ulyssess grant in america, ill think of more later/
the corrs :D
Quote from: Solomon Kane on January 28, 2008, 09:52:41 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 28, 2008, 09:27:46 PM
Complete rubbish heganboy. I had two young nephews of my wife's doing a bit of work in the house the other night. Both are dyed in the wool North East of Ireland supporters, but I neither killed nor insulted them. I have no objection with anyone from any background playing for the IFA team I do object to Armstrong coming out with this patronising crap though and saying it in such a presumptious way, as if he was speaking for all of us. >:(
Just out of curiousity Tony, do these two lads follow the "one true faith" as you like to call it?
Tony - will you please answer my question?
Quote from: Solomon Kane on January 29, 2008, 05:24:35 PM
Tony - will you please answer my question?
Solomon, hope you dont mind me asking, but why do you want to know which religion they are?
What difference would that make?
Quote from: wesaysanchez on January 29, 2008, 01:53:45 PM
about time too. weve beatebn spain, england sweden, iceland. we've ha d the ormeou bakery, soin mills flazx, bucshmills whishry, harland and wolf, the ship factory, the crisps factory thats tatyo. , the mall in armagh thats cricketk, the ultsler fry, snow partol, ash, the corrs, free presepertarianism, samus heney, mary peter,. persifdent ulyssess grant in america, ill think of more later/
Don't forget William Ferguson Massey!
Beca
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 29, 2008, 05:31:01 PM
Quote from: Solomon Kane on January 29, 2008, 05:24:35 PM
Tony - will you please answer my question?
Solomon, hope you dont mind me asking, but why do you want to know which religion they are?
What difference would that make?
Because Tony constantly says that few/no Catholics support Northern Ireland. if these lads are Catholics, it's a point against him. I'd imagine that's SK's motivation for the question. Trying to trip poor Tony up. Sneaky that.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 29, 2008, 05:37:43 PM
BecaQuote from: his holiness nb on January 29, 2008, 05:31:01 PM
Quote from: Solomon Kane on January 29, 2008, 05:24:35 PM
Tony - will you please answer my question?
Solomon, hope you dont mind me asking, but why do you want to know which religion they are?
What difference would that make?
Because Tony constantly says that few/no Catholics support Northern Ireland. if these lads are Catholics, it's a point against him. I'd imagine that's SK's motivation for the question. Trying to trip poor Tony up. Sneaky that.
Thats what I thought, but given the tit Tony has made of himself on this thread I would have presumed there was no need to trip him up further, he is already lying face down in the mud ;)
Quote from: T Fearon on January 28, 2008, 09:27:46 PM
I had two young nephews of my wife's doing a bit of work in the house the other night. Both are dyed in the wool North East of Ireland supporters, but I neither killed nor insulted them.
Ah, the old "Some of my best friends are black" defence... ::) Anyhow, why would anyone consider "killing" or "insulting" someone merely because they follow another team? Do you expect some sort of credit for your restraint? Or were you merely afraid of your wife (poor woman)?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 28, 2008, 09:27:46 PM
I have no objection with anyone from any background playing for the IFA team
Nonsense! You're forever banging on about how the NI team is "sectarian/monocultural/loyalist blah blah blah". If you really believe this crap, then to be principled and consistent, you should have to object to people representing them. Which of course you do, seeing as how in the past you've variously insulted and misrepresented any number of NI players, such as Jennings, Lennon, Armstrong etc, as well as the fans and just about anyone connected with the team.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 28, 2008, 09:27:46 PM
I do object to Armstrong coming out with this patronising crap though and saying it in such a presumptious way, as if he was speaking for all of us. >:(
Very poor and transparent attempt to justify the offensive, even intimidatory, insult against Armstrong with which you opened this thread. >:(
Maybe while he is lying face down in the mud he wants to stand on his head, just to rub it in.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 29, 2008, 05:47:32 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 28, 2008, 09:27:46 PM
I had two young nephews of my wife's doing a bit of work in the house the other night. Both are dyed in the wool North East of Ireland supporters, but I neither killed nor insulted them.
Ah, the old "Some of my best friends are black" defence... ::)
EG, I agree with you entire post.
But re the "some of my best freinds are black" defence. Some of the OWC boys are the worst offenders here. I dont know how many times its been mentioned that guys go to games with nationalist, or catholic freinds to NI games.
You just have to give the benefit of the doubt in these cases.
QuoteAnyhow, why would anyone consider "killing" or "insulting" someone merely because they follow another team?
I ask myself this also when i hear norn iron supporters referring to southeners as 'beggars' ???
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 29, 2008, 05:55:30 PM
But re the "some of my best freinds are black" defence. Some of the OWC boys are the worst offenders here. I dont know how many times its been mentioned that guys go to games with nationalist, or catholic freinds to NI games.
You are falsely conflating about two different things when you compare Fearons "defence", with those OWC fans who point out that a number of NI fans come from a Catholic/Nationalist background.
Re. the former, Fearon consistently slates the IFA/NI team etc on the basis that they're "sectarian", "monocultural" etc and uses this as a basis for his criticism of anyone associated with them. However, with his reference to Gerry Armstrong, he revealed that he simply hates anyone connected with the team in an utterly unreasonable and prejudiced manner. Of course, having realised that he had let his mask slip, he attempted to retrieve the situation. First, he attempted to defend himself by pretending he only meant someone should "have a word with" Armstrong - a palpable lie. So next he came out with the amazing revelation about NI fans that he would, in fact, have them "about the house" - as if that somehow proves his liberal and tolerant credentials.
Whereas, with the latter, OWC fans only point to the small (but increasing) number of NI fans from a Catholic/Nationalist background who attend NI games in order to demonstrate what can only be a good thing - namely that they want the NI team to be open to all. Therefore, it is not a question of our being "offenders" like Fearon with something to "defend" or conceal - we are proud of it for its own sake.
And for the record, whilst it is still a minority and we still have our share of meatheads in our support, in each of the last four NI matches I personally have attended, home and away, it has been in mixed company.
Onwards and Upwards
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 29, 2008, 05:37:43 PM
BecaQuote from: his holiness nb on January 29, 2008, 05:31:01 PM
Quote from: Solomon Kane on January 29, 2008, 05:24:35 PM
Tony - will you please answer my question?
Solomon, hope you dont mind me asking, but why do you want to know which religion they are?
What difference would that make?
Because Tony constantly says that few/no Catholics support Northern Ireland. if these lads are Catholics, it's a point against him. I'd imagine that's SK's motivation for the question. Trying to trip poor Tony up. Sneaky that.
Exactly right.
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 29, 2008, 05:55:30 PM
But re the "some of my best freinds are black" defence. Some of the OWC boys are the worst offenders here. I dont know how many times its been mentioned that guys go to games with nationalist, or catholic freinds to NI games.
You just have to give the benefit of the doubt in these cases.
I have said this, and its true. The difference is i dont insult catholics continually, then get pulled on it, only to try and excuse myself based on my friendships
Incidently tony has claimed on many many occasions that he does not know a single catholic who is a NI fan.
Quote from: nifan on January 29, 2008, 06:58:39 PM
Incidently tony has claimed on many many occasions that he does not know a single catholic who is a NI fan.
I don't think its fair to presume someone's religion based on the religion of a relative.
In fairness I think Fearon's basic point is correct. In my experience the vast majority of those from a Catholic background in the north with any interest in soccer support Ireland rather than NI. I'm sure there are exceptions (Marty Clarke for example) but as a basic point its fair enough.
There are quite a few young fellas who play or have played for NI. I've heard that some young aspiring footballers from a Nationalists background, when selected for NI, jump at the chance. They do this,not because of any love of NI, indeed often they would much prefer to play for the Republic but simply because NI offer them a schoolboy cap first and gaining this recognition is pivotal to what they really want more than anything else - a professional career. Its not necessary what fans of either side would like to see but I can understand why young fellas would be tempted to do this.
i cant believe ziggys got a warning! whats up with that. hope you learn your lesson there ziggy, the pen is mightier than the sword ;)
as to the thread itself, cant understand myself how a nationalist would square the idea of playing for the north with his nationalism but then that would be an individual thing so its very possible. as for gerry armstrong who said he's a nationalist? he may not be... tonys initial comments were the pits (and you know that tony).
I wouldn't be too hard on this Armstronge fella as I doubt he has had any other option but to nail his colours to the OWC mast. Not only did he not have the choice to play for Ireland when he was starting his soccer career but don't forget he grew up in very different times when the old Stormont regime had done its damndest to suffocate any expression of Irish identity in the six counties.
Belfast in the fifties and sixties didn't have RTE beaming into homes but the clipped Oxbridge accented voices of the BBC. There was no internet but the Belfast Telegraph and don't forget that even the Irish News's extensive coverage of Gaelic games has been a recent enough phenomenon. That's the way it was, and for many especially those in the urban centres away from the border, you didn't have the space to question the status quo.
So in many ways like the lifer 20 years into his sentence is easy to understand how he was 'institutionalised' or 'conditioned' to the extent that opting for the north wasn't so much a choice but something you just did unthinkingly. A bit like those Irish who left for London at the same time and who'd rather live out the rest of their days staring down the bottom of another bottle than come home again, this fella has to stick with OWC – to do anything else would be to admit his life has been a failure.
What sort of balax sits down and reports what someone said on this board. Next you'll be suing each other.
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2008, 07:33:24 PM
as to the thread itself, cant understand myself how a nationalist would square the idea of playing for the north with his nationalism but then that would be an individual thing so its very possible.
There have been plenty of nationalists who have represented Northern Ireland at all sorts of activities. To take that idea to an extreme would mean no nationalist would work for the Northern Ireland Civil Service as it was against their political beliefs, or sit on the Northern Ireland Executive or Assembly. They may not be representing the idea of an Ireland they prefer but they are not representing Britain either.
Donagh, anyone with a different opinion than yourself must be somehow brainwashed ::)
Quote from: nifan on January 29, 2008, 08:24:11 PM
Donagh, anyone with a different opinion than yourself must be somehow brainwashed ::)
No 'brainwashing' infers that something has been applied to this man to induce him to do something whereas I'm suggesting he just adapted to the situation he found himself in i.e. it wasn't a deliberate action rather subconscious mental process. Either way, wouldn't blame him for choosing to play for OWC as it wasn't as though he would ever have won anything in Antrim. After playing for the Johnnies, progressing to another bunch of hateful feckers was just natural progression. ;)
Quote from: Solomon Kane on January 29, 2008, 08:20:01 PM
[
There have been plenty of nationalists who have represented Northern Ireland at all sorts of activities.
care to name one?
Feck me. Anyone throwing things at the TV at the narrator's lilt?
Tis like a primary school story.
To be honest its a bit disappointing to hear players saying they'll play for the best team or the one that approaches them first. I understand why they all want to play international football to further their careers but it'd be nice to see some national pride. At 23 I think Mark McChrystal can't change to ROI anyway.
Disappointed that the FAI didn't go on camera and defend their position, especially considering they have a much stronger case than Howard Wells.
All in all, I didn't hear that much I didn't already know.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 29, 2008, 08:30:51 AM
Indeed it will. This issue cannot be investigated without looking at the reasons why young nationalists feel uncomfortable playing for NI, what role (if any) the history of blatant sectarianism within football in the north may have had in their decision, what role (if any) the IFA's insistence on GSTQ and the Ulster banner may have had in their decision etc. or it is just gloryhunting?
Gloryhunting it is then.
Quote from: Chrisowc on January 29, 2008, 11:16:11 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 29, 2008, 08:30:51 AM
Indeed it will. This issue cannot be investigated without looking at the reasons why young nationalists feel uncomfortable playing for NI, what role (if any) the history of blatant sectarianism within football in the north may have had in their decision, what role (if any) the IFA's insistence on GSTQ and the Ulster banner may have had in their decision etc. or it is just gloryhunting?
Gloryhunting it is then.
get over it. and what would you call guys from the north who want to play for the roi but dont make it and then play for the north?
Very poor show I thought.
But was glad the likes of Felix Healy highlighted that the IFA did not actively pursue players from the north West when he was at Derry. For years underage teams be they schoolboy, U19, U21 have systematically ignored people from the North West.
Its the old 'I want the better looking car' scenario the IFA seen the FAI attracting players they didn't even realise were eligible and then kicked up a fuss. Your man Wells didn't even have an insight into the amount of people affected. Although to be fair at least he faced the camera.
Eamon McCann - what a legend though eh?
Only caught the end of the show as i was playing football (scouts from neither NI or ROI present >:() but it looked the same old.
The main point it knocked home to me is how much i dislike howard wells
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2008, 11:21:12 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on January 29, 2008, 11:16:11 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 29, 2008, 08:30:51 AM
Indeed it will. This issue cannot be investigated without looking at the reasons why young nationalists feel uncomfortable playing for NI, what role (if any) the history of blatant sectarianism within football in the north may have had in their decision, what role (if any) the IFA's insistence on GSTQ and the Ulster banner may have had in their decision etc. or it is just gloryhunting?
Gloryhunting it is then.
get over it. and what would you call guys from the north who want to play for the roi but dont make it and then play for the north?
I was being flippant but that is more or less what it a lot of it boils down to. That, and typical IFA incompetence. I don't care who plays for 'the north' so long as he gives 100% for the shirt.
Quote from: Doogie Browser on January 29, 2008, 11:23:03 PM
Eamon McCann - what a legend though eh?
The type of people who wear suits and polish the buttons! :D
Quote from: Chrisowc on January 29, 2008, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on January 29, 2008, 11:23:03 PM
Eamon McCann - what a legend though eh?
The type of people who wear suits and polish the buttons! :D
The man is a walking soundbite, always entertaining.
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2008, 08:58:01 PM
Quote from: Solomon Kane on January 29, 2008, 08:20:01 PM
[
There have been plenty of nationalists who have represented Northern Ireland at all sorts of activities.
care to name one?
Eamonn Magee - Commonwealth games.
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2008, 11:21:12 PM
get over it. and what would you call guys from the north who want to play for the roi but dont make it and then play for the north?
Failures?
Quote from: thejuice on January 29, 2008, 11:12:14 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 29, 2008, 08:30:51 AM
it is just gloryhunting?
Were talking about joining the ROI squad, you can rule glory-hunting out :D ,we're not Brazil either you know
To quote myself from page 2,
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 29, 2008, 06:20:13 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 29, 2008, 05:55:30 PM
But re the "some of my best freinds are black" defence. Some of the OWC boys are the worst offenders here. I dont know how many times its been mentioned that guys go to games with nationalist, or catholic freinds to NI games.
You are falsely conflating about two different things when you compare Fearons "defence", with those OWC fans who point out that a number of NI fans come from a Catholic/Nationalist background.
Re. the former, Fearon consistently slates the IFA/NI team etc on the basis that they're "sectarian", "monocultural" etc and uses this as a basis for his criticism of anyone associated with them. However, with his reference to Gerry Armstrong, he revealed that he simply hates anyone connected with the team in an utterly unreasonable and prejudiced manner. Of course, having realised that he had let his mask slip, he attempted to retrieve the situation. First, he attempted to defend himself by pretending he only meant someone should "have a word with" Armstrong - a palpable lie. So next he came out with the amazing revelation about NI fans that he would, in fact, have them "about the house" - as if that somehow proves his liberal and tolerant credentials.
Whereas, with the latter, OWC fans only point to the small (but increasing) number of NI fans from a Catholic/Nationalist background who attend NI games in order to demonstrate what can only be a good thing - namely that they want the NI team to be open to all. Therefore, it is not a question of our being "offenders" like Fearon with something to "defend" or conceal - we are proud of it for its own sake.
And for the record, whilst it is still a minority and we still have our share of meatheads in our support, in each of the last four NI matches I personally have attended, home and away, it has been in mixed company.
Onwards and Upwards
EG I get your point, and am not saying who is right or wrog here, as I have already give my opinion on that, but just pointing out that when Fearon points out how very few catholics go to games, out comes the OWC boys with reports of nationalist freinds being with them at the last game.
Note, I am NOT saying anyone is telling lies, just pointing out that you need to give the benefit of the doubt when these things are said. If you say you go to games with nationalists Nifan, Ibelieve you, even though I have no way of proving it, and these reports do help the image some have of the OWC so some skeptical people might say its bullshit.
Same goes with Tony. He has come out with some shite on here, but that doesnt mean we should automatically dismiss it when he says he has OWC relations.
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2008, 08:58:01 PM
Quote from: Solomon Kane on January 29, 2008, 08:20:01 PM
[
There have been plenty of nationalists who have represented Northern Ireland at all sorts of activities.
care to name one?
Martin McGuinness....
hhn, Fearon has stated that he knows NO catholics who support NI.
He has also continually insulted and derided NI fans, and now he pulls out these 2 nephews. I wonder does he class them as the same as the NI fans he is so keen to attack in general.
Quote from: nifan on January 30, 2008, 10:17:28 AM
hhn, Fearon has stated that he knows NO catholics who support NI.
He has also continually insulted and derided NI fans, and now he pulls out these 2 nephews. I wonder does he class them as the same as the NI fans he is so keen to attack in general.
Ok you may have a point, but it was the whole "I have lots of black freinds" comment from EG that got me thinking.
It is possible however that the nephews are protestants of course. Jayus I hope they dont read this site! :o
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 30, 2008, 10:24:02 AM
It is possible however that the nephews are protestants of course. Jayus I hope they dont read this site! :o
It is possible, which i guess was the point of the whole "one true faith" which fearon has espoused - he can be pretty rough on the prods as well :P
Quote from: nifan on January 30, 2008, 10:44:38 AM
he can be pretty rough on the prods as well :P
I wouldnt see that as a dig at ye though, most OWC guys declare themselves as atheists on here ;)
It isnt a dig at me certainly - though id say agnostic rather than atheist
Quote from: nifan on January 30, 2008, 10:54:50 AM
It isnt a dig at me certainly - though id say agnostic rather than atheist
Agnostic / atheist / protestant, doesnt matter yer all going to hell ;)
Quote from: Chrisowc on January 29, 2008, 11:16:11 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 29, 2008, 08:30:51 AM
Indeed it will. This issue cannot be investigated without looking at the reasons why young nationalists feel uncomfortable playing for NI, what role (if any) the history of blatant sectarianism within football in the north may have had in their decision, what role (if any) the IFA's insistence on GSTQ and the Ulster banner may have had in their decision etc. or it is just gloryhunting?
Gloryhunting it is then.
Or indeed expediency if you like. Few if any professional footballers are likely to be the martyr or conscientious objector. Even those who are, like Oleguer at Barcelona, are denounced as not good enough.
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 30, 2008, 10:57:28 AM
Quote from: nifan on January 30, 2008, 10:54:50 AM
It isnt a dig at me certainly - though id say agnostic rather than atheist
Agnostic / atheist / protestant, doesnt matter yer all going to hell ;)
Sitting here at work suffering from hangover from hell after the Reds mighty win over Portadown last night, but that made me laugh. :D ;D :D ;)
Taped this programme last nite as I was watching Shameless....Probably a more realistic programme...When i went to watch it the sound didn't come out properly...
Does anyone know if you can watch it online anywhere?
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on January 30, 2008, 12:26:57 PM
Taped this programme last nite as I was watching Shameless....Probably a more realistic programme...When i went to watch it the sound didn't come out properly...
Does anyone know if you can watch it online anywhere?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/programmes/spotlight/index.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/programmes/spotlight/index.shtml)
bbc.co.uk/iplayer You've only 7 days to watch it.
Quote from: An Fear Rua on January 30, 2008, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on January 30, 2008, 12:26:57 PM
Taped this programme last nite as I was watching Shameless....Probably a more realistic programme...When i went to watch it the sound didn't come out properly...
Does anyone know if you can watch it online anywhere?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/programmes/spotlight/index.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/programmes/spotlight/index.shtml)
Cheers....
It's not worth watching Pat. It was the most patronising and amateurish production I've ever seen on the telly. I recently helped my 16 yo niece with her GCSE media project and I'd safely say that had higher production values than that rubbish last night. When your one was standing with the inflatable globe pointing out Brazil to the viewers, I actually began to think it was Chris Morris's latest instalment of 'Brass Eye'.
Quote from: Donagh on January 30, 2008, 12:41:48 PM
It's not worth watching Pat. It was the most patronising and amateurish production I've ever seen on the telly. I recently helped my 16 yo niece with her GCSE media project and I'd safely say that had higher production values than that rubbish last night. When your one was standing with the inflatable globe pointing out Brazil to the viewers, I actually began to think it was Chris Morris's latest instalment of 'Brass Eye'.
Aye, the globe bit was awful. As soon as I saw Mandy McAuley's name in the introduction, I had an idea the whole thing would be quite crap. Gerry Armstrong needs to sort that hair out - what did he have in it? Felix could do with a bit chopped off his too.
TBH, I thought Felix's moustache stole the show. There should be more moustached men on TV.
Quote from: ONeill on January 30, 2008, 02:47:39 PM
TBH, I thought Felix's moustache stole the show. There should be more moustached men on TV.
(http://www.luckylohn.de/freddymercury1.jpg)
Good programme, but Mandy didn't present it very well. She should stick to dog fighting ;D
On the positive side fair play to Felix Healy for drawing attention to the sectarian rampant in Northern soccer which was ignored for decades, and still outrageously palyed down (ie its half a dozen Rangers fans) by OWC. Also Eamon Mc Cann rightly pointed out that the majority of Northern Nationalists supported England in 2005.
On the negative side is it only Derry wans that are opting for the FAI? I want to see players from all over the 6 counties doing this ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on January 30, 2008, 04:35:20 PM
Also Eamon Mc Cann rightly pointed out that the majority of Northern Nationalists supported England in 2005.
How so?
Quote from: full back on January 30, 2008, 04:43:49 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 30, 2008, 04:35:20 PM
Also Eamon Mc Cann rightly pointed out that the majority of Northern Nationalists supported England in 2005.
How so?
Aye Tone, I don't know anyone who supported England in 2005!
Quote from: T Fearon on January 30, 2008, 04:35:20 PM
On the positive side fair play to Felix Healy for drawing attention to the sectarian rampant in Northern soccer
Would that be you?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 30, 2008, 04:35:20 PM
Also Eamon Mc Cann rightly pointed out that the majority of Northern Nationalists supported England in 2005.
Yet when they went up the Falls Road to ask if they supported Norn Iron or England last year, everyone said Norn Iron...
:D :D :D :D Who was he HS ??? :P
Was he "doing the right thing"
Quote from: T Fearon on January 30, 2008, 04:35:20 PM
Also Eamon Mc Cann rightly pointed out that the majority of Northern Nationalists supported England in 2005.
You poor, deluded idiot.
Whether correct or not with his observation (majority of NI Nats supporting England), McCann was using that to illustrate that just as there are bigots on the Unionist side who infect soccer in NI, they also have their exact counterparts on the Nationalist side, who are so prejudiced that they'd sooner support England - their oppressor for 800 years - than lend support to their fellow Irish neighbours. Mirror image, Chuckle Brothers and all that?
Anyhow, by the way he also pointed out that the NI team is just as valid a choice for an Irishman as the ROI team, plus his Blazers with Buttons remark, I actually thought the boul Eamonn's contribution was the second* most valuable in the whole programme.
* - After Spurs and NI Legend Gerry Armstrong, of course! ;)
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 30, 2008, 06:52:29 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 30, 2008, 04:35:20 PM
Also Eamon Mc Cann rightly pointed out that the majority of Northern Nationalists supported England in 2005.
You poor, deluded idiot.
Whether correct or not with his observation (majority of NI Nats supporting England), McCann was using that to illustrate that just as there are bigots on the Unionist side who infect soccer in NI, they also have their exact counterparts on the Nationalist side, who are so prejudiced that they'd sooner support England - their oppressor for 800 years - than lend support to their fellow Irish neighbours.
So what you are trying to say is that northern nationalists who support and follow the republic are bigots? :S
Actually Mc Cann's point was that such is the degree of alienation from the IFA team, experienced by Northern Nationalists, that they would actually prefer to see the team beaten by anyone...even England. Now who is responsible for this scenario? Answers on a postcard, email, or 30p phone call, to Windsor Avenue
But surely Tony, the following bit when the BBC went out to the streets of Belfast proved Eamon wrong.
Two people on the Falls hardly constitutes a straw poll. I myself wanted Engalnd to win that night as did most nationalists. Alan Mc Bride in his Sunday Life column said he watched the North East of Ireland V Denmark game recently, and the whole pub in N Belfast was cheering for Denmark. Mc Cann had it right
Funny, I was supporting Norn Iron. Any Nationalist I spoke to was of the same mindset.
Fearon, it is shocking you are so bigotted you cant see the wood for the trees
Supporting Denmark against NI is no comparison at all with supporting England against NI
BTW, WTF was Lawro at ???
When picking the best 11 players on the island he had John O Shea in central midfield
Lawros team:
Given
Hughes
Finnan
Dunne
Evans
O 'Shea
Carsley
McGeady
Keane
Healy
Duff
I wouldnt have Hughes near that team, move O'shea left back and finna right back. That leaves a spot in centre midfield, possibly Steven or Andy Reid to fill in.
You would have a strong bench with the likes of Doyle and Lafferty.
Quote from: stiffler on January 30, 2008, 06:59:03 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 30, 2008, 06:52:29 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 30, 2008, 04:35:20 PM
Also Eamon Mc Cann rightly pointed out that the majority of Northern Nationalists supported England in 2005.
You poor, deluded idiot.
Whether correct or not with his observation (majority of NI Nats supporting England), McCann was using that to illustrate that just as there are bigots on the Unionist side who infect soccer in NI, they also have their exact counterparts on the Nationalist side, who are so prejudiced that they'd sooner support England - their oppressor for 800 years - than lend support to their fellow Irish neighbours.
So what you are trying to say is that northern nationalists who support and follow the republic are bigots? :S
Good grief, you're worse than Fearon!
What I'm saying is that northern Nats who support
England, solely because they are playing NI (i.e. their fellow Irishmen) are exhibiting the exact same bigotry as those "Loyalists" [
sic] who e.g. booed Lennon for signing for Celtic.
I don't expect every northern Nat to have supported NI when they played England, though if the posters on this Board are indicative, then it is encouraging that a fair a number did.
But support their Saxon Oppressors?
Some Irish Nationalists those are, eh? ::)
Quote from: full back on January 30, 2008, 07:33:27 PM
Fearon, it is shocking you are so bigotted you cant see the wood for the trees
Supporting Denmark against NI is no comparison at all with supporting England against NI
Thank you Full Back.
Quote from: full back on January 30, 2008, 07:33:27 PM
BTW, WTF was Lawro at ???
When picking the best 11 players on the island he had John O Shea in central midfield
He may have been a fine player in a fine team, but Lawrenson's punditry should always be put in the context that his his most significant non-playing roles in football were as manager of Oxford United (sacked) and defensive coach at Kevin "I'd Love It" Keegan's 10 Man Attackers at Newcastle.
He is also possibly the unfunniest man on TV (after Patrick Kielty), though if the following really is genuine, then he may be the most unintentionally funny man on the planet:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=61670736
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 30, 2008, 07:57:50 PM
Quote from: stiffler on January 30, 2008, 06:59:03 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 30, 2008, 06:52:29 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 30, 2008, 04:35:20 PM
Also Eamon Mc Cann rightly pointed out that the majority of Northern Nationalists supported England in 2005.
You poor, deluded idiot.
Whether correct or not with his observation (majority of NI Nats supporting England), McCann was using that to illustrate that just as there are bigots on the Unionist side who infect soccer in NI, they also have their exact counterparts on the Nationalist side, who are so prejudiced that they'd sooner support England - their oppressor for 800 years - than lend support to their fellow Irish neighbours.
So what you are trying to say is that northern nationalists who support and follow the republic are bigots? :S
Good grief, you're worse than Fearon!
What I'm saying is that northern Nats who support England, solely because they are playing NI (i.e. their fellow Irishmen) are exhibiting the exact same bigotry as those "Loyalists" [sic] who e.g. booed Lennon for signing for Celtic.
I don't expect every northern Nat to have supported NI when they played England, though if the posters on this Board are indicative, then it is encouraging that a fair a number did.
But support their Saxon Oppressors?
Some Irish Nationalists those are, eh? ::)
Never heard of freedom of choice? Northern Nationalist's have every right to support England over NI if they choose to...I would support most teams that play against NI not because i'm a bigot.I simply dont like them.....
Quote from: Donagh on January 30, 2008, 12:41:48 PM
It was the most patronising and amateurish production I've ever seen on the telly.
For you to complain about being "patronised", after you posted this about Gerry Armstrong takes the biscuit:
"I wouldn't be too hard on this Armstronge fella as I doubt he has had any other option but to nail his colours to the OWC mast. Not only did he not have the choice to play for Ireland when he was starting his soccer career but don't forget he grew up in very different times when the old Stormont regime had done its damndest to suffocate any expression of Irish identity in the six counties.
Belfast in the fifties and sixties didn't have RTE beaming into homes but the clipped Oxbridge accented voices of the BBC. There was no internet but the Belfast Telegraph and don't forget that even the Irish News's extensive coverage of Gaelic games has been a recent enough phenomenon. That's the way it was, and for many especially those in the urban centres away from the border, you didn't have the space to question the status quo.
So in many ways like the lifer 20 years into his sentence is easy to understand how he was 'institutionalised' or 'conditioned' to the extent that opting for the north wasn't so much a choice but something you just did unthinkingly. A bit like those Irish who left for London at the same time and who'd rather live out the rest of their days staring down the bottom of another bottle than come home again, this fella has to stick with OWC – to do anything else would be to admit his life has been a failure"Mr Kettle, have you met Mr. Pot? ::)
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on January 30, 2008, 08:16:11 PM
Never heard of freedom of choice? Northern Nationalist's have every right to support England over NI if they choose to...I would support most teams that play against NI not because i'm a bigot.I simply dont like them.....
Of course people are free to choose who they support - I never denied them their choice.
But equally, the rest of us are free to judge them on their choice, according to their motives.
P.S. You say you would support "most" teams who play NI. Which are the ones who wouldn't command your support?
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 30, 2008, 08:25:31 PM
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on January 30, 2008, 08:16:11 PM
Never heard of freedom of choice? Northern Nationalist's have every right to support England over NI if they choose to...I would support most teams that play against NI not because i'm a bigot.I simply dont like them.....
Of course people are free to choose who they support - I never denied them their choice.
But equally, the rest of us are free to judge them on their choice, according to their motives.
P.S. You say you would support "most" teams who play NI. Which are the ones who wouldn't command your support?
Why should anyone be free to judge me just because i have said I dont like N.I? I have my reasons why I dont like them and it is nothing bigoted....Same way as I have a Intense hatred of Man U...Not being bigoted just dont like or support them...As for the other teams i wouldn't support that's not relevant to the subject...
When I say that I dont support N.I because i dont like them...take it as that..people should not be so hasty to judge any more in to it.....
Quote from: stiffler on January 30, 2008, 07:40:05 PM
Lawros team:
Given
Hughes
Finnan
Dunne
Evans
O 'Shea
Carsley
McGeady
Keane
Healy
Duff
I wouldnt have Hughes near that team, move O'shea left back and finna right back. That leaves a spot in centre midfield, possibly Steven or Andy Reid to fill in.
You would have a strong bench with the likes of Doyle and Lafferty.
A silly, silly time filler which only highlighted the weakness of the overall programme.
As for the team itself, I actually would have Hughes on, partnering Dunne at centre-half which I feel is his best position. Given in goals with Finnan and Evans as full-backs.
O'Shea and McGeady can get to feck, Stephen Hunt would come in for McGeady with either Damien Johnston or Steve Davis in for O'Shea (and possibly the other for Carsley). Doyle would be a tad unlucky and Lafferty could maybe make it as a foil for Keane.
Or Healy.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 30, 2008, 08:45:41 PM
Quote from: stiffler on January 30, 2008, 07:40:05 PM
Lawros team:
Given
Hughes
Finnan
Dunne
Evans
O 'Shea
Carsley
McGeady
Keane
Healy
Duff
I wouldnt have Hughes near that team, move O'shea left back and finna right back. That leaves a spot in centre midfield, possibly Steven or Andy Reid to fill in.
You would have a strong bench with the likes of Doyle and Lafferty.
A silly, silly time filler which only highlighted the weakness of the overall programme.
As for the team itself, I actually would have Hughes on, partnering Dunne at centre-half which I feel is his best position. Given in goals with Finnan and Evans as full-backs.
O'Shea and McGeady can get to feck, Stephen Hunt would come in for McGeady with either Damien Johnston or Steve Davis in for O'Shea (and possibly the other for Carsley). Doyle would be a tad unlucky and Lafferty could maybe make it as a foil for Keane.
Or Healy.
Agree, a pointless exercise, but of all the omissions, the one which most puzzles me is that of George McCartney, not only the only recognised Irish Left Back playing in the Premiership, but one of the better ones at that level.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 30, 2008, 09:11:19 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 30, 2008, 08:45:41 PM
Quote from: stiffler on January 30, 2008, 07:40:05 PM
Lawros team:
Given
Hughes
Finnan
Dunne
Evans
O 'Shea
Carsley
McGeady
Keane
Healy
Duff
I wouldnt have Hughes near that team, move O'shea left back and finna right back. That leaves a spot in centre midfield, possibly Steven or Andy Reid to fill in.
You would have a strong bench with the likes of Doyle and Lafferty.
A silly, silly time filler which only highlighted the weakness of the overall programme.
As for the team itself, I actually would have Hughes on, partnering Dunne at centre-half which I feel is his best position. Given in goals with Finnan and Evans as full-backs.
O'Shea and McGeady can get to feck, Stephen Hunt would come in for McGeady with either Damien Johnston or Steve Davis in for O'Shea (and possibly the other for Carsley). Doyle would be a tad unlucky and Lafferty could maybe make it as a foil for Keane.
Or Healy.
Agree, a pointless exercise, but of all the omissions, the one which most puzzles me is that of George McCartney, not only the only recognised Irish Left Back playing in the Premiership, but one of the better ones at that level.
You are correct. Had forgotten about George. Fire him in ahead of Evans, then.
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on January 30, 2008, 08:37:11 PM
Why should anyone be free to judge me just because i have said I dont like N.I?
We are all free to express out opinions and preferences, in the knowledge that others are free to react accordingly. You can't have one without the other.
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on January 30, 2008, 08:37:11 PM
I have my reasons why I dont like them and it is nothing bigoted....
Fine. But as an NI fan, I'd be interested to hear them.
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on January 30, 2008, 08:37:11 PM
As for the other teams i wouldn't support that's not relevant to the subject...
I had no way of knowing whether they were relevant or not when I asked the question, since you hadn't indicated why you dislike NI, never mind why you appear to dislike certain other teams even more. I'm just curious, that's all.
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on January 30, 2008, 08:37:11 PM
When I say that I dont support N.I because i dont like them...take it as that..people should not be so hasty to judge any more in to it.....
I haven't actually judged you over your dislike of NI, since I don't know your reasons for doing so. It appears that many northern Nationalists dislike the NI team for political reasons which, though I dislike seeing politics intruding unnecessarily in sport, is fair enough, I suppose.
But when certain Nationalists extend their political dislike to the extent that they would even support England, then if they're entitled to hold those opinions (which they are), I'm equally entitled to deplore them for it.
But because I try to avoid stereotyping people, I have not assumed
your dislike of the NI team derives from the same motives, which is why I am asking what your reasons are. You can tell me, you know, I'm a big boy, so I doubt I'll be offended or embarrassed by your answer... ;)
QuoteMcCann was using that to illustrate that just as there are bigots on the Unionist side who infect soccer in NI, they also have their exact counterparts on the Nationalist side, who are so prejudiced that they'd sooner support England - their oppressor for 800 years - than lend support to their fellow Irish neighbours.
I've got to contradict you there NIFAN, i don't know a single person, with the exception of some very nice english gentlemen I play soccer with that wanted England to win. you can talk all you like about the ABMU crowd but pretty much the rest of the planet is ABE.
Quote from: heganboy on January 30, 2008, 09:46:21 PM
QuoteMcCann was using that to illustrate that just as there are bigots on the Unionist side who infect soccer in NI, they also have their exact counterparts on the Nationalist side, who are so prejudiced that they'd sooner support England - their oppressor for 800 years - than lend support to their fellow Irish neighbours.
I've got to contradict you there NIFAN, i don't know a single person, with the exception of some very nice english gentlemen I play soccer with that wanted England to win. you can talk all you like about the ABMU crowd but pretty much the rest of the planet is ABE.
I know they all sound the same but Nifan has more sense than to write that type of crap.
It is well documented that a lot of owc in the big stand were wearing england tops that night. Figure that one out.
England? would be a fair % of Nationalists supporting them, well supporting would be the wrong word - not supporting NI would be better
Too much water under the bridge
I wouldnt support either side over the other. I wouldnt support England because of the entire British Empires history, especially in Ireland.
NI because politically I dont think they should exist, in conjunction with my dislike of the history of the British empire in Ireland.
Does this make me a bigot? Yes or no?
Quote from: Orior on January 30, 2008, 11:35:02 PM
It is well documented that a lot of owc in the big stand were wearing england tops that night. Figure that one out.
Where was this documented and by whom?
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 10:05:23 AM
Does this make me a bigot? Yes or no?
YES!! Wait 'till I tell the OWC crowd this evening! :D
Quote from: ziggysego on January 31, 2008, 10:56:02 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 10:05:23 AM
Does this make me a bigot? Yes or no?
YES!! Wait 'till I tell the OWC crowd this evening! :D
Mods Ziggy called me a bigot, he's out of control I'm telling ya!!
;)
Quote from: heganboy on January 30, 2008, 09:46:21 PM
QuoteMcCann was using that to illustrate that just as there are bigots on the Unionist side who infect soccer in NI, they also have their exact counterparts on the Nationalist side, who are so prejudiced that they'd sooner support England - their oppressor for 800 years - than lend support to their fellow Irish neighbours.
I've got to contradict you there NIFAN, i don't know a single person, with the exception of some very nice english gentlemen I play soccer with that wanted England to win. you can talk all you like about the ABMU crowd but pretty much the rest of the planet is ABE.
It was me, not nifan, who posted that. Of course, I have no way of knowing how many NI Nats were hoping England would win, but there is no doubt that Fearon was not the only one. Below is an article from the late-lamented Daily Ireland, written on the eve of the match, by Robin Livingstone, Editor of the Andersonstown News. It is followed by a reply from Eamonn McCann - note the section which I have
emboldened!
Here's hoping England give Norn Iron a good spanking
Robin Livingstone
"At first I thought a lizard or a cicada had made its way up the leg of my shorts, so when it turned out that it was the silently vibrating mobile I was relieved.
Relieved even though I was on holiday and the text was from work, which normally is not good news. I pressed the button and read.
"Truth now. Wed night. Ulster v England. Who r u cheering on?"
To be honest, I was surprised and a little disappointed. Surprised that the sender of the text would be in any doubt about where I stand on the matter in hand, and disappointed that the the bottomless pit of enmity and the cavernous morass of malice that I bear towards Our Wee Pravince has not by this time articulated itself to everyone who knows me. The thumb fairly flew over the keys.
"Three lions on the shirt fella."
I've mentioned before in this column that the dread words 'Northern Ireland' never pass my lips. Not only that, but I physically wince every time I hear them. Indeed, when the plane bringing me back from holiday landed at Belfast and the flight attendant with a Ballymena accent said that on behalf of the entire flight crew she'd like to welcome everybody on board to Northern Ireland, I looked up from my book and fired off a dirty look, but she didn't catch my eye and the gesture went fizzing past her averted head like a badly-aimed RPG.
So it should come as no surprise if I tell you that come Wednesday night, I will be cheering not only for an England win, but an emphatic England win; a trouncing, a rout, a spanking, a tanking, an embarrassment (but not a national embarrassment, of course).
Some people say politics has no place in sport, but then some people say Jackie Fullerton's a good commentator; some people say Lawrie Sanchez knows what he's doing; and some people say the IFA have kicked sectarianism out of Windsor Park. I've been there a few times and I have to say I'd feel more at home in the cheap seats at a Balkan derby. It's like the eleventh night but without a bonfire for entertainment.
And although this is not a prime reason for me opposing the statelet of my birth, let's face it, Lawrie's green and blue army aren't very good, are they? The sheepskin-coated clichés, that elsewhere help us towards a concise understanding of the game and the players, are used by the local BBC as a way of avoiding having to state the obvious:
• He'd die for the badge (And let's hope he does fairly soon);
• He's a good reader of the game (A bottle of milk would turn quicker);
• He's currently out of favour at Clacton Rovers (Even though the team has only ten players);
• He always gives 110 per cent (what of we're not entirely certain)"Eamonn's reply:
Rooting for England
(Eamonn McCann, Sunday Journal)
"Here's hoping England give Norn Iron a good spanking," Andersonstown News editor Robin Livingstone breathed a fervent wish at the beginning of the week.
Many Nationalists across the North will have been wholly in agreement. Few will be fooled by ex-post-facto claims of satisfaction that, in the wondrous event, it was England took the spanking. Certain politicians pressed for a quote on Thursday morning made the best they could of their sad situation. Those who'd most fanatically hoped to see the North hammered were the ones with rictus grins now affixed to their faces as they forced themselves to say, sure, they were pleased the oul' enemy had left chastened and chased, with a flea in the ear and no points in the bag.
At the beginning of the week I took part in a handful of radio programmes in which I expressed my hope-against-hope that Lawrie's lads would eviscerate the Brit mixum-gatherum of millionaire mediocrities. One common Nationalist reaction was sheer incredulity. Ah, come on, you can't mean it...
Dunphy, Dunseith and Cooper separately suggested there was a stark contradiction here: militant Nationalists cheering on England (never-ending source of all our ills, and so forth) against an Irish eleven.
Maybe. And maybe not.
Take a closer look at Robin Livingstone's rant.
He would be disappointed, he reckoned, if "the bottomless pit of enmity and the cavernous morass of malice that I bear towards Our Wee Pravince has not by this time articulated itself to everyone who knows me."
The scornful mimicry of a supposedly distinctive Protestant/Unionist accent may not be as bad-minded as Bernard Manning jeering at the speech-patterns of "Pakis." The Andytown editor won't have seen it like that. But the parallels are close enough to be concerning.
Recalling "a flight attendant with a Ballymena accent" welcoming passengers to "Northern Ireland," Livingstone, "looked up from my book and fired off a dirty look (which) went fizzing past her averted head like a badly-aimed RPG." We won't ponder the significance of that choice of simile, for fear of being driven to a disturbing conclusion, but might wonder instead at the derisive reference, again, to an assumed Prod/Unionist accent.
I have a minibus load of nieces from Ballymena. Brilliant broad Ballymena accents, every one of them, that they are not the slightest bit coy about. But I hope they take care to speak sotto voce in the vicinity of Robin Livingstone. He might fire off only verbal missiles. But you never know how others within hearing range might opt to ape him.
"The dread words 'Northern Ireland' never pass my lips," he continued. " I physically wince every time I hear them."
Does he now? He must do an awful lot of wincing.
What's the name of the Assembly the Andytown News is mad keen to see up and running again? The Northern Ireland Assembly.
What Executive did politicians the 'paper admires serve in with distinction? The Northern Ireland Executive.
What police force has Robin Livingstone's preferred party pledged to endorse as soon as a few changes (NOT including a name-change) are in place? The Police Service of Northern Ireland.
Strange as it might seem to mainstream broadcasters, the attitudes aren't contradictory, but complementary.
It's because some Nationalists are uneasy at their own acceptance of Northern Ireland that they feel they have to make a show of rhetorical opposition to it.
It is because, in practical terms, they have endorsed the legitimacy of the Northern Ireland State that they denounce symbolic representations of it all the more loudly.
The campaign to obliterate Northern Ireland having halted, they turn to battle on who'll rule the roost within it. Communal hostility replaces the struggle for an all-Ireland. This is a pattern of play which corresponds ever more closely with the political mind-set of the Mad Mullahs of Orangeism.
It's in this context that militant Nationalism comes to be expressed in a desire to see blue noses ground into the dirt, even by Brits. In fact, especially by Brits.
It is now the main perspective of a growing tendency within Nationalism that a united Ireland can best and maybe only be brought about by England hammering the Prods until they see that there's no point persisting with, as Robin Livingstone would put it, Our Wee Pravince, and reconcile themselves instead to an all-Ireland arrangement.
It makes sense for such Nationalists to roar England on as they suppress Northern Ireland.
Except that it didn't work out like that at all, did it? Nor will it in the real world.
Wonderful result at Windsor on Wednesday. Pity the Free State let us down But shouldn't we be used to that, too, by now?
September 12, 2005________________
This article appeared in the September 11, 2005 edition of the Sunday Journal.
P.S. How curious that Livingstone should take exception to a Ballymena accent, presumably on the basis of what it connotes about the speaker. Someone should introduce him to Liam Neesson - and watch him knock Livingstone's pan in! :D
QuoteGeorge McCartney, not only the only recognised Irish Left Back playing in the Premiership, but one of the better ones at that level.
Stephen Kelly's played at both left and right-back for Birmingham, and has done reasonably well in both spots. I wouldn't have McGeady on it either, or O'Shea in midfield - would replace with Hunt and Davis respectively. Evans/Dunne at centre-halves - toss-up between Doyle and Healy off Keane.
Evil Genuis, why are you so desperate to prove that the vast majority of the Nationalist community wanted England to beat Northern Ireland? Granted there was a sizeable minority that hoped for that. These are usually the people that write letters to the press and phone in radio stations.* I would safely bet the majority wanted Northern Ireland to win.
To turn the tables, would 100% of the GAWA want RoI to win in a given match? I doubt it, I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to see RoI win, even if they don't activity support them.
Quote from: ziggysego on January 31, 2008, 10:56:02 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 10:05:23 AM
Does this make me a bigot? Yes or no?
YES!! Wait 'till I tell the OWC crowd this evening! :D
They already know Ziggy, my comments have been mentioned ::) Perhaps their version of Fearon looking for confrontation, I dont know.
Seems the rest of them are fine so far. No point letting one guy looking for a row put you off!
I dont know why some take it so personally if people want us to get beat. Doesnt bother me in the slightest - i just dont like when they start the tony fearon road of rationale.
of course many (most) of OWC fans will want to see ROI beaten in pretty much every game, for reasons varying from bigotry, disagreement over players to general local rivalries.
The same of course is reciprocated.
Never took you for a bigot nifan ;)
I mean zig that various fans will have various reasons, rather than an individual fan will have *all* those reasons
As it stands im happy for the ROI to do well - for the in laws more than anything.
Quote from: Orior on January 30, 2008, 11:35:02 PM
It is well documented that a lot of owc in the big stand were wearing england tops that night. Figure that one out.
The following extracted from an article written in a Man.City fanzine by Sean Riley, also an England fan:
"The FA confirmed the allocation made available to them was a meagre 1,086 tickets. Only the top 700 cappers (those who had been to every England game home and away over the last 2 years) were guaranteed a ticket, with the balance of 300 or so being balloted between 10,000 members who had applied!
With my ticket safe, I set about getting some cheap flights with a few pals who were going out to the game, ticketless."He later added:
"Back to footballing matters, and once we had got in to Windsor Park (and England fans were present all around the ground courtesy of forged tickets and paying over the odds etc), it was clear that tonight was not going to be a walk over."He concluded with:
"The result was a bitter pill to swallow, but our experiences of our trip to Belfast will live long in the memory, it really was that special. A big thanks to all the Northern Ireland based Blues who came over to the City flag and wished us well, we hope to see you all in England soon! To all the Blues out there (including Wilky and Bev in our group) with England, how did you all end up getting tickets?! But that's City fans for you, they will always turn up and get in, no matter how high the odds are stacked against them doing so!" There were also stories of England fans slipping £50 notes to a couple of turnstile operators - may or may not be true. And, of course, there were quite a few English people living in NI who got tickets legitimately (via sponsors, mates etc), either for themselves or for friends and family back in England who were travelling over.
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 10:05:23 AM
I wouldnt support either side over the other. I wouldnt support England because of the entire British Empires history, especially in Ireland.
NI because politically I dont think they should exist, in conjunction with my dislike of the history of the British empire in Ireland.
Does this make me a bigot? Yes or no?
No.
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 31, 2008, 11:06:23 AM
QuoteGeorge McCartney, not only the only recognised Irish Left Back playing in the Premiership, but one of the better ones at that level.
Stephen Kelly's played at both left and right-back for Birmingham, and has done reasonably well in both spots.
Stephen Kelly has been a RB since his earliest days at Spurs. Brum only pick him at LB in an emergency. In truth, he's not really up to international football in his normal position, never mind out of position, and especially compared with Finnan or (Aaron) Hughes - both of whom have also filled in at LB from time to time.
Anyhow, McCartney is a better LB than the three of them (imo)
Quote from: nifan on January 31, 2008, 11:38:23 AM
I mean zig that various fans will have various reasons, rather than an individual fan will have *all* those reasons
As it stands im happy for the ROI to do well - for the in laws more than anything.
I'm only winding you up :D
Quote from: ziggysego on January 31, 2008, 11:10:30 AM
Evil Genuis, why are you so desperate to prove that the vast majority of the Nationalist community wanted England to beat Northern Ireland? Granted there was a sizeable minority that hoped for that. These are usually the people that write letters to the press and phone in radio stations.* I would safely bet the majority wanted Northern Ireland to win.
I'm not "desperate", I can't "prove" it, I never said it was the "vast majority", or even a simple "majority"; I was merely responding to some people on here who basically stated that Fearon was the only NI Nat cheering on England thast night - patently untrue. And as for their "right" to do so - of course they're entitled to, for whatever reason or none.
But by exactly the same freedom of expression as they must be accorded, I am entitled to make my feelings clear about them, at least when they support England out of nothing more bigotry and hatred, as expressed by the likes of Robin Livingstone. That's all.
Quote from: ziggysego on January 31, 2008, 11:10:30 AM
To turn the tables, would 100% of the GAWA want RoI to win in a given match? I doubt it, I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to see RoI win, even if they don't activity support them.
If it were ROI v England, I've no doubt the reaction of the GAWA would run the whole range from some wanting their "fellow Brits" to spank the "Beggars", through some not minding either way, to some supporting their fellow Irishmen all the way, in the spirit of "Anyone But England!" There will undoubtedly will be some NI fans (even if a minority) who will support ROI simply they are a sort of "second team" - at least those NI fans who come from the Nationalist community!
I don't know, but perhaps it's a bit like e.g. asking a Tyrone fan who he'd support if Armagh were playing Dublin in an All-Ireland Final (or vice versa). Would it be his fellow Ulster county? Or whoever's playing his traditional rival? And would you get the same answer from a Down or a Derry supporter? Or one from Donaegal or Cavan? (Btw, I may, in my ignorance, have chosen a poor example, but I hope you get my point).
As for me, I actually have ambivalent feelings towards the ROI team, sometimes wanting to see them win, sometimes happy to see them lose, mostly not unduly bothered. This ambiguity stems from a variety of experiences down the years, some good, some not so good. But I can honestly say that I am overwhelmingly motivated by sporting, rather than political considerations and whatever the score, I do not "hate" the ROI team, nor their supporters, in whose company I have spent manys a good time. In the end, it's only a game, after all.
Like any large group of people, you can expect a wide range of opinions and emotions - unless you happen to think "Sure themmuns is all the same, anyway" (which I know you don't, btw)
EG, Dublin are Tyrones traditional rival??
I'll make allowances for that as you aint a GAA man EG and dont claim to be, but that gave me a good old chuckle!!
I supported N Ireland V England. Does this make me a freak? :'(
Also EG Dublin hasnt beaten Tyrone since 1995 in championship football Thats 13 years of failure for the jackeens.
Quote from: rrhf on January 31, 2008, 12:33:44 PM
Also EG Dublin hasnt beaten Tyrone since 1995 in championship football Thats 13 years of failure for the jackeens.
13 years of failure which consisted of two games. One draw and one win for Tyrone. They really have swept the boards with us :D :D :D :D
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 12:15:37 PM
EG, Dublin are Tyrones traditional rival??
I'll make allowances for that as you aint a GAA man EG and dont claim to be, but that gave me a good old chuckle!!
No, what I meant was that Armagh and Tyrone are rivals i.e. would each prefer to see their traditional rival lose, or a fellow Ulster county win?
As I said, it's not an exact analogy, but was merely meant to show that you can have mixed feelings about such things - unless you're a bigot of the Fearon type, or one of his "Loyalist" counterparts, such as Billy Hutchinson, who's actually an Ingurland supporter! :o
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 12:37:22 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 12:15:37 PM
EG, Dublin are Tyrones traditional rival??
I'll make allowances for that as you aint a GAA man EG and dont claim to be, but that gave me a good old chuckle!!
No, what I meant was that Armagh and Tyrone are rivals i.e. would each prefer to see their traditional rival lose, or a fellow Ulster county win?
As I said, it's not an exact analogy, but was merely meant to show that you can have mixed feelings about such things - unless you're a bigot of the Fearon type, or one of his "Loyalist" counterparts, such as Billy Hutchinson, who's actually an Ingurland supporter! :o
Sincere apologies! :-X
One thing I dont get about people who cheer for Enland against Northern Ireland for political reasons is this.
If you hate NI for political reasons from a nationalist point of view, surely you would hate England equally if not more for being responsible for the creation of, and maintanence of NI?
I dont get how, if politics is your motive, you could prefer England to NI.
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 12:42:36 PM
One thing I dont get about people who cheer for Enland against Northern Ireland for political reasons is this.
If you hate NI for political reasons from a nationalist point of view, surely you would hate England equally if not more for being responsible for the creation of, and maintanence of NI?
Indeed. Even the mathematics are simple: "400 years of oppression" by Planters versus "800 years of oppression" by those who sent the Planters over. Perhaps someone should remind them that Cromwell - the last successful England manager before Sir Alf Ramsey ;) - was English... :D
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 12:42:36 PM
I dont get how, if politics is your motive, you could prefer England to NI.
Except that it's not even politics (though that may be the ostensible reason). For some, at least, it's bigotry, pure and simple.
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 12:52:24 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 31, 2008, 12:48:22 PM
Perhaps someone should remind them that Cromwell - the last successful England manager before Sir Alf Ramsey ;) - was English... :D
Extremely poor taste EG. >:(
On reflection, I see what you mean. Sorry. I actually meant it as a dig at the England
football team!
I'd be careful to edit it EG, could be reported under the new rules.
Quote from: his holiness nb on January 31, 2008, 12:57:00 PM
I'd be careful to edit it EG, could be reported under the new rules.
Bollox to that. It's not as if I slagged off anyone personally, so unless any one of Cromwell's victims (or the English Royal family, for that matter) want to complain, then too bad.
After all, if there's no room for bad taste on this Board, then half the threads in this section will need to be closed down!
Jeez - and I'm the one who's usually accused of being over-sensitive... ::)
EG, I dont mind saying its in poor taste, thus making my point, then ignoring it.
Just mentioning that it may leave you open to some people with personal grudges reporting you under the new rules.
Leave it there if you want, I dont care, was just trying to be helpful ;)
QuoteIn truth, he's not really up to international football in his normal position, never mind out of position, and especially compared with Finnan or (Aaron) Hughes - both of whom have also filled in at LB from time to time.
Anyhow, McCartney is a better LB than the three of them (imo)
Yeah, I wouldn't disagree (would probably pick McCartney) - Kelly was absolutely awful in his few first international outings at left-back (Staunton picked O'Shea at right-back for some of those lineups too, go figure), but he has improved considerably in the interim, and played quite well against the Czechs (for half an hour), Slovakia and Germany in that position.
another case of A.D.D
Quote from: rrhf on January 31, 2008, 01:08:36 PM
another case of A.D.D
Come on, quit the personal stuff.
Quote from: gawa316 on January 31, 2008, 10:48:02 AM
Quote from: Orior on January 30, 2008, 11:35:02 PM
It is well documented that a lot of owc in the big stand were wearing england tops that night. Figure that one out.
Where was this documented and by whom?
Have a looksee on the owc site, going way back. There were quite a few disgusted at the site of england tops, while others were quite honest with their support of a team that compised their soccer heros.
Quote from: Orior on January 31, 2008, 02:02:08 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on January 31, 2008, 10:48:02 AM
Quote from: Orior on January 30, 2008, 11:35:02 PM
It is well documented that a lot of owc in the big stand were wearing england tops that night. Figure that one out.
Where was this documented and by whom?
Have a looksee on the owc site, going way back. There were quite a few disgusted at the site of england tops, while others were quite honest with their support of a team that compised their soccer heros.
Any of the England tops I saw in the stands were worn by English-born England fans, surprisingly enough. Of course, there is a small minority in the "Loyalist" community in NI who actually support England at every match - we've all seen the photos of Johnny Adair and Billy Hutchinson
et al proudly wearing their Ingurland tops (short-sleeved, of course, so as to show off their Ulster Tattoos ::)) Perhaps some of these were at Windsor that night, though if they were, they'll have been competing with the travelling England fans from over the water to buy from the touts, since none of them will be block-bookers at Windsor, that's for sure.
Anyhow, it seems that they follow England because they're "more British" than the NI team. Or as one of these plastic John Bulls put it: "The Northern Ireland players don't sing GSTQ with enough pride" (Code for "Too Many Fenians").
In my experience, whatever NI fans think about NI-born people who support ROI, they have nothing but total scorn for these idiots - and would tell them so, if it weren't usually too dangerous. :o
P.S. What was your point, Orior? ???
Quote from: Orior on January 31, 2008, 02:02:08 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on January 31, 2008, 10:48:02 AM
Quote from: Orior on January 30, 2008, 11:35:02 PM
It is well documented that a lot of owc in the big stand were wearing england tops that night. Figure that one out.
Where was this documented and by whom?
Have a looksee on the owc site, going way back. There were quite a few disgusted at the site of england tops, while others were quite honest with their support of a team that compised their soccer heros.
Like the boy in work who was questioning me for the need for so many England flags at the match ::)
It hadn't occured to him that they belonged to England fans :o
Clarification as to why I , and most nationalists lend to support to whoever is in opposition to the IFA side, including England. It has nothing to do with irrational hatred either.
1.Decades of sectarianism, on field and off field, that has been brushed under the carpet
2.The monocultural composition of the team's support and IFA Executive.
3. The role of the IFA in being responsible for the split in Irish soccer accruing from its unionist ethos.
4.The specifc sectarian abuse on individuals such as Lennon and Rogan
5. The pure naked hatred of November 1993 which would be replaicted tomorrow (I have no doubt) if the FAI team was to re appear at Windsor Park
6. The exclusiv use of unionist symbols at Windsor Park, showing that the IFA is unwilling to even try to represent the whole community here.
7. The monotonous repeats of goalkeeping errors from 25 years ago which gave the IFA team hollow victories against average World Cup hosts.
Twice recently our esteemed Sports Minister has abused GAA hospitality to inform his hosts how the sport needs to become more attractive to protestant/unionists. When is he going to do likewise as far as the IFA is concerned towards catholic/nationalists
Quote from: nifan on January 31, 2008, 11:32:07 AM
of course many (most) of OWC fans will want to see ROI beaten in pretty much every game, for reasons varying from bigotry, disagreement over players to general local rivalries.
The same of course is reciprocated.
I find that an incredible statement.
I have not come across this personally. In fact the vast majority of fans who follow the Republic have a range of feelings towards the NI team from mostly apathetic to well wishing. The NI team is not regarded as a rival.
The OWC majority mindset is not reciprocated by the vast majority
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2008, 03:32:53 PM
Clarification as to why I , and most nationalists lend to support to whoever is in opposition to the IFA side, including England. It has nothing to do with irrational hatred either.
1.Decades of sectarianism, on field and off field, that has been brushed under the carpet
2.The monocultural composition of the team's support and IFA Executive.
3. The role of the IFA in being responsible for the split in Irish soccer accruing from its unionist ethos.
4.The specifc sectarian abuse on individuals such as Lennon and Rogan
5. The pure naked hatred of November 1993 which would be replaicted tomorrow (I have no doubt) if the FAI team was to re appear at Windsor Park
6. The exclusiv use of unionist symbols at Windsor Park, showing that the IFA is unwilling to even try to represent the whole community here.
7. The monotonous repeats of goalkeeping errors from 25 years ago which gave the IFA team hollow victories against average World Cup hosts.
Twice recently our esteemed Sports Minister has abused GAA hospitality to inform his hosts how the sport needs to become more attractive to protestant/unionists. When is he going to do likewise as far as the IFA is concerned towards catholic/nationalists
Shouln't you be out doing something about it, like "having a word with" Gerry Armstrong? After all, he's got it coming to him... >:(
Quote from: Main Street on January 31, 2008, 03:40:38 PM
Quote from: nifan on January 31, 2008, 11:32:07 AM
of course many (most) of OWC fans will want to see ROI beaten in pretty much every game, for reasons varying from bigotry, disagreement over players to general local rivalries.
The same of course is reciprocated.
I find that an incredible statement.
I have not come across this personally. In fact the vast majority of fans who follow the Republic have a range of feelings towards the NI team from mostly apathetic to well wishing. The NI team is not regarded as a rival.
The OWC majority mindset is not reciprocated by the vast majority
I don't know where you come from, MS, but at the risk of repeating unfair generalisations, from my personal experience, I have few or no problems with ROI fans actually from the Republic. However, amongst those ROI fans who come from NI, I sometimes see a section display an antipathy, even hostility, towards the NI team and its fans which is rarely replicated by those from south of the border.
Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I am not accusing every northern ROI fan by any means. I daresay most are only concerned with supporting their own team, rather than doing another team down. But the sort of bile exhibited by Robin Livingstone of the Angrytown News, or even by Fearon on this very site, is not exclusive to those two individuals. Sad to say, this antagonism is to be found e.g. after NI matches when cars carrying soccer fans away from Windsor along the Westway/Ormeau Road/Markets etc are regularly stoned by wee spides wearing ROI tops, or those of a certain well-known Scottish club* etc.
* - No disrespect to the overwhelmingly decent majority of Celtic fans, btw.
P.S. I have absolutley no desire to get dragged into a blame game, or another dreary and endless slanging match along the lines of "Aye, but youssuns are far worse than ussuns etc". Rather, I am merely recounting the experience of NI fans on the ground.
Quote from: Main Street on January 31, 2008, 03:40:38 PM
Quote from: nifan on January 31, 2008, 11:32:07 AM
of course many (most) of OWC fans will want to see ROI beaten in pretty much every game, for reasons varying from bigotry, disagreement over players to general local rivalries.
The same of course is reciprocated.
I find that an incredible statement.
I have not come across this personally. In fact the vast majority of fans who follow the Republic have a range of feelings towards the NI team from mostly apathetic to well wishing. The NI team is not regarded as a rival.
The OWC majority mindset is not reciprocated by the vast majority
Many people have varying views, but a lot will want to see NI lose in every game. Others will be apathetic. Some will support us.
In general most people i know who support the ROI enjoyed slagging us off when we went through a horrendous run - particular highlights included losing to armenia and canada.
I wouldnt know about the vast majority, and id say it would be very hard to know the breakdown, but I would say the vast majority would be apathetic at best to us.
To say that you dont see us as rivals asks the question who do you see as rivals?
Don't see how any of you see this as relevant as there are many NI fans who would act in the same way and like to see the Republic lose... In fairness I'm not blaming anyone for this particular stance as I had the misfortune of watching Scotland come close to qualification for Euro 2008 in an English pub where the English fans took great delight in the fact the Scots were beaten by the Italians even though it had no possible bearing on England's performance or whether they made the Euro's or not... not particularly pretty but that is the mentality of a lot of supporters of football... Liverpool Everton... Celtic Rangers... Man U City! It's nothing new and it's not a particularly big deal IMO.
Quote from: nifan on January 31, 2008, 04:51:04 PM
Many people have varying views, but a lot will want to see NI lose in every game. Others will be apathetic. Some will support us.
In general most people i know who support the ROI enjoyed slagging us off when we went through a horrendous run - particular highlights included losing to armenia and canada.
I wouldnt know about the vast majority, and id say it would be very hard to know the breakdown, but I would say the vast majority would be apathetic at best to us.
To say that you dont see us as rivals asks the question who do you see as rivals?
Did you lose to Canada? you deserved your slaggin then, doesn´t mean much though. If you say the vast majority would be apathetic, that means they don´t care enough to bothered one way or the other
then you are contradicting your other statements.
For instance NI beating England would not have registered that much because on the same night the Republic got beaten by France and as you know yourself it's hard to get worked up one way or other on what's happening elsewhere.
Rivals would obviously be England, that's a dumb question actually :)
Wales, Scotland and NI not
NI has more nuisance value than the other 2 if we have them in a group, even if they have nothing to play for in terms of qualifying they still take the game more serious as if we are perfidious foes.
I heard about a bar in Spain the night NI were recently playing England and the 26 county crowd were playing who I'm not sure. Well this was an Irish bar but the English lads piled in in numbers and demanded their game be put on the big TV, so the siazable contingent who wanted to see the "RoI"game has to watch on a tiny screen in the corner. Anyway the nordies scored and their couple of supporters erupted in joy and were promptly turned upon by some of the English. Que the Irish of a republican presuasion, incoluding some hard core Derry lads to come to their counrtymens aid! English backed off and the NI suporters could revel in their rare victory in peace!
I meant the attitudes would be reciprocated, I would of course be guessing at numbers from both sides.
Im not contradicting anything - the attitudes exist from both sides.
QuoteRivals would obviously be England, that's a dumb question actually
Wales, Scotland and NI not
England are a team that are talked about as contenders for most tournaments, though they are generally short.
They have won a WC albeit a long time ago.
I think you need to realise you are more at NIs level than you think. Im not fully up to date with the latest figures but i suspect our rankings are also somewhat similar, and while not a perfect measure, the relative rankings of european teams is usually reasonable.
If you can seriously claim we arent rivals but england are i think you need to ponder why you really believe that.
Quote from: scalder on January 31, 2008, 05:36:26 PM
I heard about a bar in Spain the night NI were recently playing England and the 26 county crowd were playing who I'm not sure. Well this was an Irish bar but the English lads piled in in numbers and demanded their game be put on the big TV, so the siazable contingent who wanted to see the "RoI"game has to watch on a tiny screen in the corner. Anyway the nordies scored and their couple of supporters erupted in joy and were promptly turned upon by some of the English. Que the Irish of a republican presuasion, incoluding some hard core Derry lads to come to their counrtymens aid! English backed off and the NI suporters could revel in their rare victory in peace!
Reminds me of the time a wee while back when NI were playing in Copenhagen. The day after our fighting 0-0 draw, a few of us went to an Irish Bar for a few pints of lunch. The staff and a few of the customers were from the Republic, but all were very very amiable. Anyhow, as we all sat round trying to find that elusive balance between being unable to face another drink and desperately needing another one, a sports round-up came up on the TV, including our game.
When this was followed by pictures of the goals from the Republic's "seven goal thriller" in Cyprus, we were very disappointed for you.
Were we f**k! It was hilarious - the few local Danes in the bar couldn't understand how all these Irish football fans were struggling to sing "One Team in Ireland" whilst holding their sides with laughing and giggling... :D
Quote from: nifan on January 31, 2008, 05:37:15 PM
I meant the attitudes would be reciprocated, I would of course be guessing at numbers from both sides.
Im not contradicting anything - the attitudes exist from both sides.
QuoteRivals would obviously be England, that's a dumb question actually
Wales, Scotland and NI not
England are a team that are talked about as contenders for most tournaments, though they are generally short.
They have won a WC albeit a long time ago.
I think you need to realise you are more at NIs level than you think. Im not fully up to date with the latest figures but i suspect our rankings are also somewhat similar, and while not a perfect measure, the relative rankings of european teams is usually reasonable.
If you can seriously claim we arent rivals but england are i think you need to ponder why you really believe that.
Rivals in football, as in some team you don´t like who you want to beat and who you like to see lose - that´s England. NI don´t come near that standard of rivalry.
You claimed that most Republic would want to see NI lose
Having a similar standard has little to do with football rivalry.
it´s not a Glentoran Linfield situation.
That´s why I said this doesn´t make sense
Quotemany (most) of OWC fans will want to see ROI beaten in pretty much every game, for reasons varying from bigotry, disagreement over players to general local rivalries.
The same of course is reciprocated.
most was in brackets as it was an estimate by myself. Many is certainly fact.
I have met many ROI fans who want NI to lose generally. Against england the results would be skewed by the abe lot, but in general i have met numerous other who want ni to be beaten generally for the various reasons above. Many may not be vociferous about it, but they take enjoyment to the level of enjoyin slagging the NI fans they know - this is the same level that a lot of the "many (most)" ni fans treat the roi.
If you dont see us as rivals thats fair enough, many i know do - there was a dvd released recently about the ROIs "greatest ever victories". What was the featured match? NI vs ROI 4-0. Some people obviously see it as a rival.
Quote from: ziggysego on January 31, 2008, 11:10:30 AM
Evil Genuis, why are you so desperate to prove that the vast majority of the Nationalist community wanted England to beat Northern Ireland? Granted there was a sizeable minority that hoped for that. These are usually the people that write letters to the press and phone in radio stations.* I would safely bet the majority wanted Northern Ireland to win.
To turn the tables, would 100% of the GAWA want RoI to win in a given match? I doubt it, I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to see RoI win, even if they don't activity support them.
it took me about 6 month to work out what owc stood for and now this? gawa? whatz it stand for...
Green And White Army
got it first time ziggy! thought you were barred ;)
Just on a warning magic ;)
:D
I watched the Ireland France game in New York and if I remember correctly it was on at the same time as the NI England game. Thierry Henry scored a belter for France, but Healy nailed the English coffin firmly shut, this was the only moment of relief for most of the Ireland fans in attendance.
The fact that England got beat mostly to "fair play to the wee north" style comments and some of my mates (OWC fans) who were there's amusement asking why I didn't transfer my allegiances. I'd say the got the guts of a months grief about it. However the English lads on our 5 a side are still hearing about it, "Healey" seems to be the shout every goal scored.
ps sorry for the attribution of the quote to NIFAN and not EG who it should have been.
And anyone who thinks that TF is in a position to claim he knows what "most nationalists" are thinking deserves to listen to him.
QuoteI , and most nationalists
my hole
quick edit to say that in the new non freedom of speech board I hope "my hole" doesn't constitute a warning offense.
Quote from: heganboy on January 31, 2008, 07:58:45 PM
quick edit to say that in the new non freedom of speech board I hope "my hole" doesn't constitute a warning offense.
well said, the mods really need to get lost on this board. once upon a time you never heard from them..
Quote from: nifan on January 31, 2008, 07:05:09 PM
If you dont see us as rivals thats fair enough, many i know do - there was a dvd released recently about the ROIs "greatest ever victories". What was the featured match? NI vs ROI 4-0. Some people obviously see it as a rival.
It's funny but if I had any doubt you have removed it.
If that was the highlighted match on the Dvd, quite honestly the promotors are not Republic soccer fans.
We in the Republic soccer world have had countless discussions. In the last 20 years only one away win is mentioned - beating Scotland at Hampden 1987. Go on to any discussion board and see what they have mention as great victories and you would not find that 4-0 mentioned in the top 20 victories.
But you might get the 3-0 Lansdowne rd one in there and the main reason for that is that it was a pressure game, the 3-0 meant certain WC qualifying.
I forgot about all that, we have really tanked you boys in the past, 3-0 4-0
Edit - and another 3-0 there someplace. ;D
Quote from: heganboy on January 31, 2008, 07:58:45 PM
I watched the Ireland France game in New York and if I remember correctly it was on at the same time as the NI England game. Thierry Henry scored a belter for France, but Healy nailed the English coffin firmly shut, this was the only moment of relief for most of the Ireland fans in attendance.
The fact that England got beat mostly to "fair play to the wee north" style comments and some of my mates (OWC fans) who were there's amusement asking why I didn't transfer my allegiances. I'd say the got the guts of a months grief about it. However the English lads on our 5 a side are still hearing about it, "Healey" seems to be the shout every goal scored.
ps sorry for the attribution of the quote to NIFAN and not EG who it should have been.
And anyone who thinks that TF is in a position to claim he knows what "most nationalists" are thinking deserves to listen to him. QuoteI , and most nationalists
my hole
quick edit to say that in the new non freedom of speech board I hope "my hole" doesn't constitute a warning offense.
I was watching the Ireland France game in a bar in New York (Behan's) too which was packed full of Irish nationalists, northerners and southerners, and the NI v England result got a big cheer also.
I think there were a good few people didnt really give a sh1t about the outcome of the norn iron and england game. The outcome of the game was irrelevant as England qualified for the tournament anyway.
Quote from: Main Street on January 31, 2008, 08:40:10 PM
Go on to any discussion board and see what they have mention as great victories and you would not find that 4-0 mentioned in the top 20 victories.
Funny it has been mentioned on here many times, and it has been mentioned to me by roi fans on numerous occasions.
And i also seem to remember when i used to read foot.ie having it mentioned there
I guess it comes down to your definition of rivals - in the international arena your rivals change from one campaign to the next - perhaps NI isnt one fo the scores you check out, but ive watched the results from away games come in in my ex-adopted home town of drogheda and heard various comments positive and negative from the locals (the nackers from the north side are always worse;))
On an unrelated topic, I have a couple of questions.
#1. Will the GAWA of OWCers have a special welcome in store for any individuals in the Bulgarian squad on Wednesday?
#2. If yes, who would the individual(s) be and why would they receive such a special welcome?
I assume you are asking about petrov, as he played for celtic.
I assume he will get some stick - as will others in the team.
Will he get more than the others? maybe - there are no united or liverpool players but Berbatov might get some as well.
Is it really that much of a problem as long as the stick he receives isnt sectarian?
Quote from: nifan on February 01, 2008, 10:03:54 AM
Is it really that much of a problem as long as the stick he receives isnt sectarian?
Isnt this the reason he will be getting stick in the first place nifan?
Quote from: nifan on February 01, 2008, 10:03:54 AM
I assume you are asking about petrov, as he played for celtic.
I assume he will get some stick - as will others in the team.
Will he get more than the others? maybe - there are no united or liverpool players but Berbatov might get some as well.
Is it really that much of a problem as long as the stick he receives isnt sectarian?
The problem is that it will be perceived as sectarian, because most likely that is exactly what it is. We have in the past seen players with Celtic connections being singled out for special treatment at Windsor Park; we have also seen in the past where owcers have listed myraid reasons why this might be the case. None of those reason ever, ever had anything to do with the players' Celtic connections. I can only see one reason why Petrov (S) would get more stick than Berbatov. I was hoping other posters might be able to list other reasons for me.
Because there are more rangers fans than arsenal fans in the crowd?
when rangers players have got stick at ROI games before i wouldnt call it "sectarian" necessarily. as with most things of this ilk people have different motivations, some of which may be based in sectarianism others not.
If you believe supporting the old firm is purely sectarian then you could assume that i suppose, as i see man u fans booing liverpool players at games, and everyone booing united players in the past etc.
Quote from: nifan on February 01, 2008, 10:23:46 AM
Because there are more rangers fans than arsenal fans in the crowd?
Who are Rangers playing?
Quote from: nifan on February 01, 2008, 10:23:46 AM
when rangers players have got stick at ROI games before i wouldnt call it "sectarian" necessarily. as with most things of this ilk people have different motivations, some of which may be based in sectarianism others not.
If you believe supporting the old firm is purely sectarian then you could assume that i suppose, as i see man u fans booing liverpool players at games, and everyone booing united players in the past etc.
I don't believe that supporting the Old Firm is purely sectarian (I would have more than a passing interest in the hoops), but there are those who quite clearly do. Such individuals are found on both sides of the Old Firm. I think that NI fans booing a Celtic player or free state fans booing a Rangers player is not the same as a player from Man U or Arsenal or Spurs or Billingham Synthonia being booed because of their club. There is something more insidious about the former.
I dont believe i said rangers where playing anyone, similarly celtic were not playing anyone when people booed rangers players at the roi game.
Liverpool werent playing when people gave wayne rooney stick, nor united when riise got a lock of abuse.
NI fans booing a celtic player, or ROI fans booing a rangers player (or more likely rangers fans within the ni support or celtic fans within the roi support) is only more insidius if accompanied by sectarianism.
I find booing any player based on his club loyalties at an international match ridiculous anyway, but it happens all over the world. I dont boo man u players or applaud liverpool players in the opposition. I will boo a man u or liverpool player equally if they dive, kick one of my players etc.
But the fact that something happens the world over is somehow going to dissappear at NI/ROI games is unlikely.
Do Celtic and Rangers players get booed at internationals the world over?
Well what about booing your own players because of their club affiliation nifan?
I get your point Nifan, but you go to an ROI game where a Rangers player or ex player is in the opposition, and you will get way more booes than any Liverpool or Man Utd player would, not slightly more, a huge amount more.
And I dont beleive for a second thats its because there are way for Celtic fans there than Liverpool or United.
Rangers = the protestant team to many.
Celtic = the catholic team to many.
Unfortunately there are a lot more of these people out there than makes me comfortable and I would have to say that, to me, much of the booing of these Celtic and Rangers players is down to bigotry.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 01, 2008, 12:25:17 PM
Do Celtic and Rangers players get booed at internationals the world over?
No, and thats not what i said
HHN,
i would say some of it is, but i genuinely think there would be a good few more celtic fans in a ROI crowd than man u fans say (id say a lot of the liverpool fans would also be celtic fans for example, same for man u fans)
Im not denying that some are driven by sectarianism, but i believe most celtic fans you talk about here dislike rangfers players regardless of religion.
Quote from: nifan on February 01, 2008, 12:38:23 PM
but i believe most celtic fans you talk about here dislike rangfers players regardless of religion.
They probably dont know the religion of many, but I think they are booed for playing for the "protestant" team.
So instead of getting booed for being protestant, its for being "protestant lovers" to put a very childish term on it.
Just my opinion anyway, not claiming it as fact.
im not entirely disagreeing, just that there is a large range of opinions.
It comes down to the same point as to why they suppor the team in the first place IMO, is it because they support the "catholic" team, or they are brought up supporting the team as a football team. Predominantly the latter i would hope.
I know many celtic fans who despise rangers and it players (particulalry ferguson) but are far from being bigots or being concerned with "protestant lovers"
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 01, 2008, 08:38:38 AM
On an unrelated topic, I have a couple of questions.
#1. Will the GAWA of OWCers have a special welcome in store for any individuals in the Bulgarian squad on Wednesday?
#2. If yes, who would the individual(s) be and why would they receive such a special welcome?
I can't speak for the GAWA but personally I won't be giving any opposition player a 'special welcome'. I'm particularly looking forward to seeing Berbatov. I expect him to show touches of class but he probably won't be too bothered as he doesn't look bothered at the best of times (que a hat-trick).
If the Bulgarian team play good football, which I expect them to do, then I will be applauding them off the pitch.
I would hope that the sectarian idiots are becoming less in number as time goes on and any stick dished out to Petrov will be based on his performance on the night.
If not, (maybe even if so) I'm sure there will be a 20 page thread by this time next week on the subject.
Home crowd boos an away player - soccer shocker.
Quote from: his holiness nb on February 01, 2008, 12:28:55 PM
I get your point Nifan, but you go to an ROI game where a Rangers player or ex player is in the opposition, and you will get way more booes than any Liverpool or Man Utd player would, not slightly more, a huge amount more.
And I dont beleive for a second thats its because there are way for Celtic fans there than Liverpool or United.
Rangers = the protestant team to many.
Celtic = the catholic team to many.
Unfortunately there are a lot more of these people out there than makes me comfortable and I would have to say that, to me, much of the booing of these Celtic and Rangers players is down to bigotry.
Can't argue with too much of that, except to say that when NI/Rangers fans boo Celtic players, it seems to receive greater attention/condemnation than when ROI/Celtic fans boo Rangers players. Oh well, the way of the world.
P.S. Never mind the booing, but although it's not in his nature, I wouldn't be altogether surprised if Stevie Davis gave Petrov a dig or two during the game; nothing to do with Rangers/Celtic, rather the way O'Neill brought in Petrov to replace Davis at Villa, even though Davis had been starring for them and Petrov had a terrible first season in his place.
'P.S. Never mind the booing, but although it's not in his nature, I wouldn't be altogether surprised if Stevie Davis gave Petrov a dig or two during the game; nothing to do with Rangers/Celtic, rather the way O'Neill brought in Petrov to replace Davis at Villa, even though Davis had been starring for them and Petrov had a terrible first season in his place.'
Davis had been playing brilliant for Villa and scoring very highly Fantasy Football-wise, but he went off the boil big-style, so it's no wonder O'Neill got rid of him. Although Fulham played him very regularly - and he's playing in a poor team - he was doing nothing for them, he was a major disappointment, so he's away to Ibrox. He's a far better player than he's been showing for the past 18 months.
Petrov - an international captain at 19, don't forget - was a Celtic legend, but he's only now starting to show how good he is at Villa after nearly 2 years.
Quote from: Chrisowc on February 01, 2008, 06:04:25 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 01, 2008, 08:38:38 AM
On an unrelated topic, I have a couple of questions.
#1. Will the GAWA of OWCers have a special welcome in store for any individuals in the Bulgarian squad on Wednesday?
#2. If yes, who would the individual(s) be and why would they receive such a special welcome?
I can't speak for the GAWA but personally I won't be giving any opposition player a 'special welcome'. I'm particularly looking forward to seeing Berbatov. I expect him to show touches of class but he probably won't be too bothered as he doesn't look bothered at the best of times (que a hat-trick).
If the Bulgarian team play good football, which I expect them to do, then I will be applauding them off the pitch.
And that is exactly how I would look at things too.
It looks like someone in West Belfast has been reading this thread, particularly Tony's calls for Gerry Armstrong to be some sort of legitimate target ;)
http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/Launch.aspx?referral=other&refresh=8y0JgE513b1Y&PBID=b944e2d0-c973-41d7-a624-57c93df6fada
Page 14 if you can be bothered flicking through.
Keep up the good work Tony!
Quote from: Solomon Kane on February 16, 2008, 02:45:23 PM
It looks like someone in West Belfast has been reading this thread, particularly Tony's calls for Gerry Armstrong to be some sort of legitimate target ;)
http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/Launch.aspx?referral=other&refresh=8y0JgE513b1Y&PBID=b944e2d0-c973-41d7-a624-57c93df6fada
Page 14 if you can be bothered flicking through.
Keep up the good work Tony!
Good to see you read the Andytown News Solomon.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on February 16, 2008, 07:08:26 PM
Quote from: Solomon Kane on February 16, 2008, 02:45:23 PM
It looks like someone in West Belfast has been reading this thread, particularly Tony's calls for Gerry Armstrong to be some sort of legitimate target ;)
http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/Launch.aspx?referral=other&refresh=8y0JgE513b1Y&PBID=b944e2d0-c973-41d7-a624-57c93df6fada
Page 14 if you can be bothered flicking through.
Keep up the good work Tony!
Good to see you read the Andytown News Solomon.
LOL. Must be a lot of work defending the indefencable.
Quote from: Orior on February 16, 2008, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on February 16, 2008, 07:08:26 PM
Quote from: Solomon Kane on February 16, 2008, 02:45:23 PM
It looks like someone in West Belfast has been reading this thread, particularly Tony's calls for Gerry Armstrong to be some sort of legitimate target ;)
http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/Launch.aspx?referral=other&refresh=8y0JgE513b1Y&PBID=b944e2d0-c973-41d7-a624-57c93df6fada
Page 14 if you can be bothered flicking through.
Keep up the good work Tony!
Good to see you read the Andytown News Solomon.
LOL. Must be a lot of work defending the indefencable.
To be fair to the Andytown News they have been doing just that for many years now. ;)