Man Utd Thread:

[statto]

For context if a club player in gaa was absolutely chronic and was taken off in first half of the game would you not say  that's fair game? If I was poor and taken off while would be embarrassed at the time would go and have a look at myself, can't think of too many taken off in first half of gaa or soccer for playing well. The reaction of the "fans" was poor and probably a reflection of frustration at a number of things under the JR regime and probably created more of a storm than anything else.

[gallsman]

That's the point FFS. It's not the substitution that's being criticised; it's the subsequent abuse from the crowd. Zirkzee was/is awful but far from the only one. Amorim had to make a change, but it was his fault from the beginning by putting Eriksen and Casemiro up against a physical and capable Newcastle midfield. He chose to take Zirkzee off and move Eriksen forward.

Using your analogy, if someone was taken off after 25 mins in Croke Park, and 60,000 people started abusing him, I'd imagine they'd come in for some criticism. You'd certainly hear about it being unacceptable in an amateur sport.

[Armagh18]

That's the point FFS. It's not the substitution that's being criticised; it's the subsequent abuse from the crowd. Zirkzee was/is awful but far from the only one. Amorim had to make a change, but it was his fault from the beginning by putting Eriksen and Casemiro up against a physical and capable Newcastle midfield. He chose to take Zirkzee off and move Eriksen forward.

Using your analogy, if someone was taken off after 25 mins in Croke Park, and 60,000 people started abusing him, I'd imagine they'd come in for some criticism. You'd certainly hear about it being unacceptable in an amateur sport.

Aye but the amateur lad is giving up his time to represent his county, not some clown getting millions every year. And if the GAA lad has made it to Croker and 60k people you have to assume he's been playing rightly and putting in the effort all year and has had an off day for whatever reason. These clowns haven't had a good season collectively in over a decade. And yes this lad is new but he has been awful.

[SaffronSports]

Sometimes there's a sense of I'm paying money I can say or do as I like. To me there's probably a line in that if you boo a player that's played shite it's harsh on one of your own but if you're abusing that person in a personal nature or their family then that's way across the line. Personally, I don't think I'd ever actively boo one of my own but there's definitely times I'm not sorry to see the back of certain players in games.

[Look-Up!]

Jesus but Utd have missed some goals of late. If they could find the back of the net, last few results could and probably should have been very different. Granted they were absolute dogs**te for 30 mins against Newcastle but they got back into it a bit but horrific lack of goals is skewing the narrative a bit.
 Feel very sorry for the new man, I think he is a good manager but seems to have walked into a perfect storm. Forwards can't hit a barn, CHs don't know what their heads are for and a GK you wouldn't trust to collect the dole. Plus the usual bad attitudes in dressing room undermining him. Feels a bit like when Ralf Rangnick publicly challenged them, you saw a downing of the tools.
 Maybe that's over harsh and luck just needs to turn for them but if he cannot bring the dressing room with him it could be one of the shortest reigns yet. And that would be a pity. Or maybe he's just a fool who's got a completely one dimensional set of players who lack the talent to do what he's asking.

Either way important month coming up. Liverpool up next and even with suspended players back you can only see one winner but after that he's in bad need of goals and a few wins. A hammering in Anfield and bad results to follow, you'd feel it'll be more than Zirkzee feel the wrath of the mob.

[Armagh18]

Honestly anyone he even slightly suspects of downing tools- dropped to f**k, play a kid in his place that will show some balls. The big contracts are a serious problem though.

[Look-Up!]

Honestly anyone he even slightly suspects of downing tools- dropped to f**k, play a kid in his place that will show some balls. The big contracts are a serious problem though.

Contracts a problem for sure but you can't drop everyone. He's right to stick to his principles BUT if he doesn't have the squad to implement his game and he sticks with it, he's essentially hanging his players out to dry and will probably lose the dressing room. Whatever about all that, goals are a problem and will become a SERIOUS problem if nothing changes. 

[J70]

I know in the modern world of mental health awareness we are all supposed to feel sympathy with Zirkzee.

But really I just can't do it.

He was born with the natural talent to become a professional sportsperson, the direction and coaching to fulfil that talent, and has landed a guaranteed contract that will make him a multi-millionaire.

He could literally ride off into the sunset tomorrow and play golf every day for the rest of his life.

And the trade off from a a mental perspective? 70,000 people, most of whom wouldn't recognise him if standing beside him, saw him playing a sport badly one day.

Yes, because having loads of money makes everything OK

Look, someone like Zirkzee earns the equivalent of the national annual wage every 2.5 days, and this is guaranteed to happen to him every 2.5 days for 5 full years.

If this completely out-of-kilter reward is available to footballers, then the very least they should expect is public spotlight when they perform abjectly.

I wouldn't disagree with that.. What I disagree with is that money shields people from greeting it tight

I've asked, but seems it's been missed.. the guy gets subbed for whatever reason the manager gives, And?

Why are people losing it? And for that matter, why do supporters of other clubs actually care?

Don't give a shit about him getting subbed. It's the abuse from the crowd afterwards, as if United's problems were all down to him. He didn't go out there to perform badly.

Again, this is a very young person. All the money and fame in the world won't insulate you from the intensity and humiliation of that abuse from your own fans on such a major stage, just a few months into what is basically a major and very public promotion into a job where you're constantly under the microscope.

People need to grow the f**k up and have a bit of empathy.

[Armagh18]

I know in the modern world of mental health awareness we are all supposed to feel sympathy with Zirkzee.

But really I just can't do it.

He was born with the natural talent to become a professional sportsperson, the direction and coaching to fulfil that talent, and has landed a guaranteed contract that will make him a multi-millionaire.

He could literally ride off into the sunset tomorrow and play golf every day for the rest of his life.

And the trade off from a a mental perspective? 70,000 people, most of whom wouldn't recognise him if standing beside him, saw him playing a sport badly one day.

Yes, because having loads of money makes everything OK

Look, someone like Zirkzee earns the equivalent of the national annual wage every 2.5 days, and this is guaranteed to happen to him every 2.5 days for 5 full years.

If this completely out-of-kilter reward is available to footballers, then the very least they should expect is public spotlight when they perform abjectly.

I wouldn't disagree with that.. What I disagree with is that money shields people from greeting it tight

I've asked, but seems it's been missed.. the guy gets subbed for whatever reason the manager gives, And?

Why are people losing it? And for that matter, why do supporters of other clubs actually care?

Don't give a shit about him getting subbed. It's the abuse from the crowd afterwards, as if United's problems were all down to him. He didn't go out there to perform badly.

Again, this is a very young person. All the money and fame in the world won't insulate you from the intensity and humiliation of that abuse from your own fans on such a major stage, just a few months into what is basically a major and very public promotion into a job where you're constantly under the microscope.

People need to grow the f**k up and have a bit of empathy.

Yeah god love them all....

[Look-Up!]

I know in the modern world of mental health awareness we are all supposed to feel sympathy with Zirkzee.

But really I just can't do it.

He was born with the natural talent to become a professional sportsperson, the direction and coaching to fulfil that talent, and has landed a guaranteed contract that will make him a multi-millionaire.

He could literally ride off into the sunset tomorrow and play golf every day for the rest of his life.

And the trade off from a a mental perspective? 70,000 people, most of whom wouldn't recognise him if standing beside him, saw him playing a sport badly one day.

Yes, because having loads of money makes everything OK

Look, someone like Zirkzee earns the equivalent of the national annual wage every 2.5 days, and this is guaranteed to happen to him every 2.5 days for 5 full years.

If this completely out-of-kilter reward is available to footballers, then the very least they should expect is public spotlight when they perform abjectly.

I wouldn't disagree with that.. What I disagree with is that money shields people from greeting it tight

I've asked, but seems it's been missed.. the guy gets subbed for whatever reason the manager gives, And?

Why are people losing it? And for that matter, why do supporters of other clubs actually care?

Don't give a shit about him getting subbed. It's the abuse from the crowd afterwards, as if United's problems were all down to him. He didn't go out there to perform badly.

Again, this is a very young person. All the money and fame in the world won't insulate you from the intensity and humiliation of that abuse from your own fans on such a major stage, just a few months into what is basically a major and very public promotion into a job where you're constantly under the microscope.

People need to grow the f**k up and have a bit of empathy.

That is not soccer fans. Nowhere in the world. Never has been, never will be.

[snoopdog]

I think it was more cheers that Mainoo was coming on. The cheers weren't directly at zirkzee. And it was a minority of fans reacting.
It wasn't good for the lad. But I don't think it wa intentionally directed at him. Many more players have performed as poorly for longer and didn't get that. This isn't the norm from United fans to individual  players at utd.
Booing performances yes directed at the team not.an individual or manager.

[JoG2]

I know in the modern world of mental health awareness we are all supposed to feel sympathy with Zirkzee.

But really I just can't do it.

He was born with the natural talent to become a professional sportsperson, the direction and coaching to fulfil that talent, and has landed a guaranteed contract that will make him a multi-millionaire.

He could literally ride off into the sunset tomorrow and play golf every day for the rest of his life.

And the trade off from a a mental perspective? 70,000 people, most of whom wouldn't recognise him if standing beside him, saw him playing a sport badly one day.

Yes, because having loads of money makes everything OK

Look, someone like Zirkzee earns the equivalent of the national annual wage every 2.5 days, and this is guaranteed to happen to him every 2.5 days for 5 full years.

If this completely out-of-kilter reward is available to footballers, then the very least they should expect is public spotlight when they perform abjectly.

I wouldn't disagree with that.. What I disagree with is that money shields people from greeting it tight

I've asked, but seems it's been missed.. the guy gets subbed for whatever reason the manager gives, And?

Why are people losing it? And for that matter, why do supporters of other clubs actually care?

Don't give a shit about him getting subbed. It's the abuse from the crowd afterwards, as if United's problems were all down to him. He didn't go out there to perform badly.

Again, this is a very young person. All the money and fame in the world won't insulate you from the intensity and humiliation of that abuse from your own fans on such a major stage, just a few months into what is basically a major and very public promotion into a job where you're constantly under the microscope.

People need to grow the f**k up and have a bit of empathy.

Yeah god love them all....

You'll want a wee bit more compassion if it visits children, nieces, nephews etc*

* unless they're loaded, then f**K them, right

[Milltown Row2]

Some gymnastics style assumptions being made here about a player walking off and down the tunnel!

Now it's coming to a family near you!

Wise up

[Aaron Boone]

United would be a good addition to the Championship next season. Teams like Middlesbrough, Stoke & Blackburn have become stale in that League, so the extra buzz of United there would reinvigorate all the participants.
 
It's also a good opportunity to see Amorim's rebuild strategy close-up with all the star names plying their trade for the one year they will be in the Championship.

[tiempo]

The stadium rebuild/newbuild has generational fuckup written all over it, to saddle the club with investors debt for another 2 or 3 generations

Sir Alex and his high horse fucked the club, pardon the pun

Sunday could be another watershed moment, honestly don't see how the manager can remain in post if he flunks another 5 or 6 straight