Saint Theresa of Calcutta

[smelmoth]

On a not directly related issue,my 87 year old father was recently honoured for 50 years service to St Vincent De Paul Society.He is to be featured in a forthcoming article in the Irish Catholic.Truly proud Moment for the family.He and my late mother were privileged to meet Pope John Paul II in Rome back in the late 80s.

Actually it is "directly related". Its directly related to you and whats this thread all about???

[omaghjoe]

She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?

Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.

As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.

So if someone set up a hospice today, staffed it with volunteers with little medical qualification and the proceeded to turn away medicines, turn away medical assistance even after been told that the medical and hygiene practices were not up to snuff and actually endangering life, withheld medicines and said that people were sent to the hospice by god to die and treatment was not necessary, you would say "crack on"

I find that view dangerous.

Thatnks for telling me my opinion. Obviously not in Ireland in the 21st century where those services are available. But we are talking about India in the mid 20th century where people would have been lying rotting in the street only for her charities

What was the drugs? Was there any1 in her facilities trained in administering them? Large pharmaceutical companies give away drugs to poor populations in the 3rd world before releasing them in the West as a sort of large scale trail? What was the circumstances

[omaghjoe]

Joe the big 3 monotheistic religions all have this inbuilt notion of progress. And climate change will show that to be nonsense.

Progress, I do wonder if you are a bot sometimes

But would the end of the human race not be far bigger factor in their demise?

[smelmoth]

She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?

Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.

As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.

So if someone set up a hospice today, staffed it with volunteers with little medical qualification and the proceeded to turn away medicines, turn away medical assistance even after been told that the medical and hygiene practices were not up to snuff and actually endangering life, withheld medicines and said that people were sent to the hospice by god to die and treatment was not necessary, you would say "crack on"

I find that view dangerous.

Thatnks for telling me my opinion. Obviously not in Ireland in the 21st century where those services are available. But we are talking about India in the mid 20th century where people would have been lying rotting in the street only for her charities

What was the drugs? Was there any1 in her facilities trained in administering them? Large pharmaceutical companies give away drugs to poor populations in the 3rd world before releasing them in the West as a sort of large scale trail? What was the circumstances

The drugs were simple. Acute pain relief and anti-biotics.

The missionaries of charity operate at the same time and in the same locations as other charities. It had greater resources and yet spent less on medicine. Why would that be? This was the 1980s, 90s and into the current century. The drugs are well established, widely used and the missionaries of charity don't lack the resources to buy them never mind accepting donations.
Why provide aspirin to those in the throws of cancer but turn away donations of acute pain relief? Why not use pain relief even if it was bought?
Why turn away anti-biotics that can treat a disease when you also don't refer the patient to hospitals that do provide proper treatment? And more to the point why would be a policy of not referring on to the available hospitals? Is this lined to the dogma that poverty is a gift from god, necessary in building character and that the people were sent to her to die? There were and are hospitals available. Many operated by western charities. Why not use them if the defence is that we are not medically trained?
Why re-use needles? Why wash needles in cold water and not sterilise them? Its not as if the means was not available to the missionaries of charity

We don't even have to get into where the donations were coming from. After all Mother Teresa wasn't picky as to where the cash came from. And on't accept Tony's crap that MT was taking it from the gangsters to put it to good use. She did more than take their money. She shared the platform and spoke in the favour of barbarous tyrants. She helped them do their thing

[Rois]

On a not directly related issue,my 87 year old father was recently honoured for 50 years service to St Vincent De Paul Society.He is to be featured in a forthcoming article in the Irish Catholic.

Fair play to him Tony, the organisation does good work.

[omaghjoe]

She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?

Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.

As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.

So if someone set up a hospice today, staffed it with volunteers with little medical qualification and the proceeded to turn away medicines, turn away medical assistance even after been told that the medical and hygiene practices were not up to snuff and actually endangering life, withheld medicines and said that people were sent to the hospice by god to die and treatment was not necessary, you would say "crack on"

I find that view dangerous.

Thatnks for telling me my opinion. Obviously not in Ireland in the 21st century where those services are available. But we are talking about India in the mid 20th century where people would have been lying rotting in the street only for her charities

What was the drugs? Was there any1 in her facilities trained in administering them? Large pharmaceutical companies give away drugs to poor populations in the 3rd world before releasing them in the West as a sort of large scale trail? What was the circumstances

The drugs were simple. Acute pain relief and anti-biotics.

The missionaries of charity operate at the same time and in the same locations as other charities. It had greater resources and yet spent less on medicine. Why would that be? This was the 1980s, 90s and into the current century. The drugs are well established, widely used and the missionaries of charity don't lack the resources to buy them never mind accepting donations.
Why provide aspirin to those in the throws of cancer but turn away donations of acute pain relief? Why not use pain relief even if it was bought?
Why turn away anti-biotics that can treat a disease when you also don't refer the patient to hospitals that do provide proper treatment? And more to the point why would be a policy of not referring on to the available hospitals? Is this lined to the dogma that poverty is a gift from god, necessary in building character and that the people were sent to her to die? There were and are hospitals available. Many operated by western charities. Why not use them if the defence is that we are not medically trained?
Why re-use needles? Why wash needles in cold water and not sterilise them? Its not as if the means was not available to the missionaries of charity

We don't even have to get into where the donations were coming from. After all Mother Teresa wasn't picky as to where the cash came from. And on't accept Tony's crap that MT was taking it from the gangsters to put it to good use. She did more than take their money. She shared the platform and spoke in the favour of barbarous tyrants. She helped them do their thing

Im not saying they couldnt have improved their methods and management especially if they where doing things like washing dirty needles in cold water, but are we all not continually complaining about our own Health service? And was it policy to do this or was there just not a clear instructions, I doubt if they had too many detailed procedures in the place, in fact I am sure it would have fairly disorganised leading to mishaps and unintended consequences.

20th century 21 century people are still rotting in the streets in India.

Again what were the drugs and did they need a medical professional to administer them? Lots of those NGO hospitals are  rife with the pharmaceutical companies testing Im talking about. And what was the exact circumstances and reason given for not moving patients on? Where patients never moved?

Is there an actual reason for some of the things that you are accusing or are you just lumping it all in to this suffering thing for handiness? It seems like there was a premeditated attempt to smear Mother Theresa as some sort of sadist by opportunistic antireligous journalists in England. It seems that there was no attempt to pursue explanations from the organisation or what their current policy is....... But more to the point there was no attempt to analyse how those people would have fared without their help.

And as I said Im not saying she or her organisation was perfect but what I am saying is that she did alot of good work in areas that needed her help and those people would have been a lot worse of than without their help. Im sure we can both agree to that?

[seafoid]

She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?

Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.

As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.

This is a good place to start.

Can you reference the Bible's criteria on saints?

Whats the bible got to do with it?

For a start, to answer Tony's question, Papal Infallibility cannot conflict with scripture. So that is why I was asking where the church's criteria for Sainthood comes from. Because if it isn't in the Bible, it is garbage under the church's own rules.

It is like employee of the month.
The Church''s audience is no longer in Europe despite the sterling efforts of Tony. It is in poorer countries in Latin America, Africa and bits of Asia where people are less likely to question the process.

[Applesisapples]

Don't you understand Papal infallibility thus his unique powers to confer sainthood?

The Pope can only invoke infallibility on matters of faith, I didn't think that covered saints. But how f**king arrogant of any human being to take on the notion that he is infallible delusions of being God without any foundation in scripture and embarrassing.

[screenexile]

Don't you understand Papal infallibility thus his unique powers to confer sainthood?

The Pope can only invoke infallibility on matters of faith, I didn't think that covered saints. But how f**king arrogant of any human being to take on the notion that he is infallible delusions of being God without any foundation in scripture and embarrassing.

Are all the popes infallible? What about the ones that covered up the child abuse or the Borgias who had mistresses and illegitimate children etc?

[theskull1]

Some of the voices still revering MT despite the evidence and ethical arguments being put forward should remember that Jimmy Saville (he's the new hitler ya know  ) also helped a lot of people.

[omaghjoe]

The evidence is she set up a religous congregation to assist people who where the the poorest of the poor in the poorest countires, and inspired many others to do the same.

I fail to see the connection to those motivated by ethnic cleansing and child abuse myself, but sure knock yerself out.

[theskull1]

The connection is that you are choosing to cast your gaze only in certain directions so as to claim her saintliness as a person whilst at the same time giving no weight to the arguments that others are using to claim she is the opposite.

Similar to how someone would look at the thousands of people Jimmy Saville helped through all his fundraising and jim'll fix it's and chose to define him as a great person.   

[omaghjoe]

Actually Jimmy Saville was motivated to do "good things" to provide cover and access for his depraved needs.

MT aim was to assist the poor and dying and in doing so may have used some unconventional/poor practices.

So unless your suggesting MT's purpose was some sort of sadist whose goal was to inflinct suffering your anology is arse about face. Not to mention that your putting poor medical practices on a par with child abuse and giving 1st world kids treats is on a par with tending to the sick and dying in some of the worlds worst slums.

[Applesisapples]

The evidence is she set up a religous congregation to assist people who where the the poorest of the poor in the poorest countires, and inspired many others to do the same.

I fail to see the connection to those motivated by ethnic cleansing and child abuse myself, but sure knock yerself out.

Personally I'm not disputing any of this. I do dispute the Pope's right to declare her a Saint.

[theskull1]

Actually Jimmy Saville was motivated to do "good things" to provide cover and access for his depraved needs.

MT aim was to assist the poor and dying and in doing so may have used some unconventional/poor practices.

So unless your suggesting MT's purpose was some sort of sadist whose goal was to inflinct suffering your anology is arse about face. Not to mention that your putting poor medical practices on a par with child abuse and giving 1st world kids treats is on a par with tending to the sick and dying in some of the worlds worst slums.

Of course I'm not comparing like for like ... don't be silly man

MTs aim was to assist the poor and dying and as a result of her belief that suffering would be what Christ wanted for the poor, she was happy to draw the line at the level of care they provided and whore herself on the global stage with the highest bidder to pay for it giving no regard to where and who the money was coming from. That's a perserve form of kindness, to point of being sadistic if you ask me.