South Belfast North of Ireland Supporters Club

[dublinfella]

The GAA exists to strengthen the national identity in a 32 county Ireland etc ...the GAA does not have any opinion on what is the best form of government for Irish people and nowhere in the rules does it say we should live in a 32 county socialist republic! And I presume were the political map to change in Ireland and the island was divided into 7 different jurisdictions this aim would allow the GAA to continue to run the All Ireland Championships.  The GAA allows London and New York to enter the Championship...I can't see the IFA allowing Bohemians to enter the Irish Cup

Spurious. The IFA can't let Bohs into the Irish Cup because FIFA won't let them. The GAA can do what they like.

[Maguire01]

I am not displaying double standards. The fact is that an organisation whose alleged aim is to promote soccer, a global sport, and nothing else in an extremely polarised society should not use the flags and emblems peratining to one side of that polarised community, particularly when that same organisation is under the mircoscope for its sectarian past

Analogies with the GAA are completely irrelevant.

So if the IFA went the other way and delcared themselves defenders of Ulster Protestant traditions etc, then it would be ok?

Like it or not the red hand flag is the official flag of the statelet. What else would you have them use?

Wrong... the flag in question is completely unofficial and has never been formally adopted.  The official flag is the St Patrick's saltire, which appears on the butcher's apron.  If the bastardised red hand Star of David we're the lost tribe of Israel shitty rag was the official flag of the statelet, it would have a presence on the butcher's apron.  It is a loyalist invention .... and I don't have to 'like it or not'

Also wrong. The Union flag is the only official flag for NI.

[lynchbhoy]

I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.

Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?

Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)

So lets take the first step and get rid of the flag and anthem in the GAA!

as the rugby example has shown, the Irish flag and anthem are not causing a problem

[lynchbhoy]

I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.

Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?

Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)

Agreed. But if NI as a whole can't do so, its a tad unfair to expect the IFA to sort it all out. Also, could the GAA not make a similar step and not fly tricolours in the 6 or is it all up to themmuns to change?

as the rugby example has shown, the Irish flag and anthem are not causing a problem

[Maguire01]

I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.

Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?

Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)

Agreed. But if NI as a whole can't do so, its a tad unfair to expect the IFA to sort it all out. Also, could the GAA not make a similar step and not fly tricolours in the 6 or is it all up to themmuns to change?

as the rugby example has shown, the Irish flag and anthem are not causing a problem

What bubble have you been living in?

[Gnevin]

Lynchboy answer the question I asked you!

[lynchbhoy]

I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .

The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.

so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.

do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!

I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!

Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .

Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.

so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !

The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf

where and when have you ever seen/heard this being enforced - is the question that was put to you.
We all know it exists in print. But does it exist in reality.

(e.g. rem the death penalty exists in print for anyone that kills a copper - which means those guys released the other day should have been shot/hung)

so in your own time....

1 The death penalty no longer exists in any way shape or form in Ireland or the UK .
2 Your just attempting to deflect from the content of this rule by saying it's not enforced. If it's so unimportant why is it listed second after the GAA's name ?

I brought up the death penalty example toshow you that even when enshrined (written) in law the death penalty was not used or followed.
Thats legislative criminal law , not the charter of a sports organisation where 'aims' matter less.

so with that point made, please refrain from avoiding the question yet again and tell us where , when and who it was that you saw following this 'aim'.
Or is it as we all know a load of c**p from you again (admittedly with better spelling at long last)

You brought you the death penalty and where wrong as to its legal status
Would you join an organisation who's basic aim was

"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 6 County Northern Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."

I'd better off discussing this with a 2 year old .

OK try to make it easier for you to understand
WHEN the legislation was in place and a garda was killed, there was no one executed for his death.
That depicts how something written is not always cast in stone (and thats from our legal system)

so given that even the most serious of legislation doesnt always mean it has to be followed, then some small part of an ancient charter in the early beginnings of the GAA could hardly be most definitely applied at all times?

Anyhow back to your answer,
When have you heard, seen and who was it that have enforced , implemented or followed up on this 'aim'

Still waiting for an answer despite your attempts to squirm out of answering it and proving my point correct!

[dublinfella]

DAublinfella if they did admit that I would have more respect for their honesty, its the Football for All and we have got rid of sectarianism crap that gets up my nose.

They have made an effort and things are better than they were. Fairs fair.

Can you not see how using the symbols of one side in a bitterly polarised community is so wrong and in fact is the principle reason why the team attracts no catholic support? I know in a normal society it would be perfectly normal for a football association to fly that nation's flag and use that nation's anthem but the fact is that this is not a normal society, this is a society whose sovereignty is disputed by almost half the population.

Yes. But the same applies to the GAA. Use the same benchmark of flags and anthems.

Again the analogy with the GAA is invalid (though used by unionist to justify the IFA). The GAA exists to promote Irish culture and games, the IFA like all other soccer associations is supposed to exist to promote soccer only. At the very least it could have some regard for the sensitivities of the flags and emblems issue

The GAA exists to promote a version of Irish culture invented in the late 19th century. Football was invented in a hotel bar and hurling was ressurected from a thousand year slumber. Unionists don't identify with it, nor do large swathes of urban Ireland.

I ask again. What flag and anthem should the IFA use to appease you?

[lynchbhoy]

I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.

Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?

Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)

Agreed. But if NI as a whole can't do so, its a tad unfair to expect the IFA to sort it all out. Also, could the GAA not make a similar step and not fly tricolours in the 6 or is it all up to themmuns to change?

as the rugby example has shown, the Irish flag and anthem are not causing a problem

What bubble have you been living in?

do ulster players not stand for the anthem and the flag ?

[lynchbhoy]

Lynchboy answer the question I asked you!

tell you what, answer the question I asked you a long time ago in this thread and I'll answer yours no problem.
(what was your question?)

[lynchbhoy]

DAublinfella if they did admit that I would have more respect for their honesty, its the Football for All and we have got rid of sectarianism crap that gets up my nose.

They have made an effort and things are better than they were. Fairs fair.

good God !

[Chrisowc]

I took a look at this club on google maps to see what tony is on about.

In the pic there is a SCOTLAND flag flying outside. Is this normal practise?

Check the thread from last year. Scotland where NI's next opponent is the explanation the OWC lads gave.

That was my understanding - I mentioned the german flag that caused some contention at the time as well.
However seems like the scotland flag is now a permanent fixture

Thats akin to the lad in the celtic top protesting outside croke park to foreign sports!

Agreed if that is the case.

[Gnevin]

I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .

The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.

so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.

do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!

I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!

Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .

Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.

so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !

The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf

where and when have you ever seen/heard this being enforced - is the question that was put to you.
We all know it exists in print. But does it exist in reality.

(e.g. rem the death penalty exists in print for anyone that kills a copper - which means those guys released the other day should have been shot/hung)

so in your own time....

1 The death penalty no longer exists in any way shape or form in Ireland or the UK .
2 Your just attempting to deflect from the content of this rule by saying it's not enforced. If it's so unimportant why is it listed second after the GAA's name ?

I brought up the death penalty example toshow you that even when enshrined (written) in law the death penalty was not used or followed.
Thats legislative criminal law , not the charter of a sports organisation where 'aims' matter less.

so with that point made, please refrain from avoiding the question yet again and tell us where , when and who it was that you saw following this 'aim'.
Or is it as we all know a load of c**p from you again (admittedly with better spelling at long last)

You brought you the death penalty and where wrong as to its legal status
Would you join an organisation who's basic aim was

"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 6 County Northern Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."

I'd better off discussing this with a 2 year old .

OK try to make it easier for you to understand
WHEN the legislation was in place and a garda was killed, there was no one executed for his death.
That depicts how something written is not always cast in stone (and thats from our legal system)

so given that even the most serious of legislation doesnt always mean it has to be followed, then some small part of an ancient charter in the early beginnings of the GAA could hardly be most definitely applied at all times?

Anyhow back to your answer,
When have you heard, seen and who was it that have enforced , implemented or followed up on this 'aim'

Still waiting for an answer despite your attempts to squirm out of answering it and proving my point correct!

And for the forth time it's not from ancient time or the early beginnings as I posted the original aims of the association .

The fact it's not implemented is not the point , answer my question with a simple yes or no please .

[Maguire01]

I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.

Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?

Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)

Agreed. But if NI as a whole can't do so, its a tad unfair to expect the IFA to sort it all out. Also, could the GAA not make a similar step and not fly tricolours in the 6 or is it all up to themmuns to change?

as the rugby example has shown, the Irish flag and anthem are not causing a problem

What bubble have you been living in?

do ulster players not stand for the anthem and the flag ?

They do. But that doesn't mean there hasn't been a flags or anthems issue with rugby. Why do we have 'Ireland's Call'? Why was there a big flags and anthems issue for the game in Ravenhill only a few years ago? Have you been living on another planet? Just because there's no problem for you or me doesn't mean there's no problem.

[Maguire01]

Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone

...apart from FIFA clearly.

If they had sent in a photo of a chimp eating a banana they would have used that image as the IFA have CLAIMED it was the national flag. I don't think FIFA would have turned around and said no, they'd have to take it at face value.

Regardless of whether or not FIFA attempt to verify the validity of a particular flag, they have recognised it.

FIFA is a group of football associations...the UN it ain't!

I do apologise - i thought the discussion was about soccer...