South Belfast North of Ireland Supporters Club

[Gnevin]

I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .

The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.

so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.

do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!

I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!

Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .

Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.

so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !

The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf

where and when have you ever seen/heard this being enforced - is the question that was put to you.
We all know it exists in print. But does it exist in reality.

(e.g. rem the death penalty exists in print for anyone that kills a copper - which means those guys released the other day should have been shot/hung)

so in your own time....

1 The death penalty no longer exists in any way shape or form in Ireland or the UK .
2 Your just attempting to deflect from the content of this rule by saying it's not enforced. If it's so unimportant why is it listed second after the GAA's name ?

I brought up the death penalty example toshow you that even when enshrined (written) in law the death penalty was not used or followed.
Thats legislative criminal law , not the charter of a sports organisation where 'aims' matter less.

so with that point made, please refrain from avoiding the question yet again and tell us where , when and who it was that you saw following this 'aim'.
Or is it as we all know a load of c**p from you again (admittedly with better spelling at long last)

You brought you the death penalty and where wrong as to its legal status
Would you join an organisation who's basic aim was

"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 6 County Northern Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."

I'd better off discussing this with a 2 year old .

[dublinfella]

I am not displaying double standards. The fact is that an organisation whose alleged aim is to promote soccer, a global sport, and nothing else in an extremely polarised society should not use the flags and emblems peratining to one side of that polarised community, particularly when that same organisation is under the mircoscope for its sectarian past

Analogies with the GAA are completely irrelevant.

So if the IFA went the other way and delcared themselves defenders of Ulster Protestant traditions etc, then it would be ok?

Like it or not the red hand flag is the official flag of the statelet. What else would you have them use?

[A Quinn Martin Production]

not too hard to pick these out from the prev posts

you still havent answered ....
what is a 'six county flag' ?
who does it represent?
Commissioned by who ?

is it 'political ' when in occurrence in co cork or co carlow ?
if so please tell me how (or relate to us how it is)
and when you and gnevin admit it isnt  then its the same for any part of Ireland
who in the GAA is calling for a united Ireland ?


yer starting to rack them up, then again typical soccer pigs head throwing louts dont know the meaning of manners !

In order - the white red hand of Ulster flag.

Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.

How would I know?

Yes

The rules of the GAA insist that the Irish flag and anthem are utiliised no matter where the game is played. Thats a statement that the GAA supports a version of Irishness others don't share so can be seen as exclusionary.

The rules of the GAA clearly call for a 32 county Irish entity. Surely you aren't a memeber of an association whose rulebook and aims you haven't read?

As for the insults, well thats par for the course with you, isn't it.

The rules state that national flag must be flown at all matches...not so sure the GAA insists on the anthem being played at all matches...but I could be wrong

[carribbear]

Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)

So lets take the first step and get rid of the flag and anthem in the GAA!
[/quote]

Why? We're talking about the IFA here.

[T Fearon]

DAublinfella if they did admit that I would have more respect for their honesty, its the Football for All and we have got rid of sectarianism crap that gets up my nose.

Can you not see how using the symbols of one side in a bitterly polarised community is so wrong and in fact is the principle reason why the team attracts no catholic support? I know in a normal society it would be perfectly normal for a football association to fly that nation's flag and use that nation's anthem but the fact is that this is not a normal society, this is a society whose sovereignty is disputed by almost half the population.

Again the analogy with the GAA is invalid (though used by unionist to justify the IFA). The GAA exists to promote Irish culture and games, the IFA like all other soccer associations is supposed to exist to promote soccer only. At the very least it could have some regard for the sensitivities of the flags and emblems issue

[Maguire01]

the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.

By whom? First time I've heard of it.

Like it or not, that flag (the "Ulster Banner") is recognised as representing NI, regardless of the fact that it's not an official flag for the 6 counties.
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43952/index.html

[T Fearon]

Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone

[Main Street]

I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .

The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.

so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.

do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!

I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!

The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
[/quote]
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To Gnevin
Lets look at this rule nr 2 THE BASIC AIM
"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."

The GAA is a 32 county association and it seeks to strengthen the national identity of a 32 county Ireland.
The components of the national identity that concern the GAA are clarified as  language, games and customs.
Dangerous stuff indeed to frighten the hearts and minds of people who have an anathema to a those components of a national identity -
LANGUAGE GAMES AND CUSTOMS.
This is the basic aim of the GAA.
Apart from moans,  I see no valid argument from you of a necessity to change the basic aim of the GAA constitution.
When I do, I would consider it.

The GAA was around for decades before you arrived Gnevin.
Do you have an appreciation of the neccessity for a Gaelic sports organisation which set it self up with those goals in mind, at that time?
Do you have an appreciation of the input the GAA has had on our national identity through the medium of Gaelic games?
Do you value that input?
Do you see the GAA these days as anything else other than a Gaelic sports focussed organisation but still true to its basic aim of nourishing that sporting component of irish national identity throughout the 32 counties?

[Maguire01]

Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone

...apart from FIFA clearly.

[Gnevin]

I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .

The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.

so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.

do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!

I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!

The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To Gnevin
Lets look at this rule nr 2 THE BASIC AIM
"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."

The GAA is a 32 county association and it seeks to strengthen the national identity of a 32 county Ireland.
The components of the national identity that concern the GAA are clarified as  language, games and customs.
Dangerous stuff indeed to frighten the hearts and minds of people who have an anathema to a those components of a national identity -
LANGUAGE GAMES AND CUSTOMS.
This is the basic aim of the GAA.
Apart from moans,  I see no valid argument from you of a necessity to change the basic aim of the GAA constitution.
When I do, I would consider it.

The GAA was around for decades before you arrived Gnevin.
Do you have an appreciation of the neccessity for a Gaelic sports organisation which set it self up with those goals in mind, at that time?
Do you have an appreciation of the input the GAA has had on our national identity through the medium of Gaelic games?
Do you value that input?
Do you see the GAA these days as anything else other than a Gaelic sports focussed organisation but still true to its basic aim of nourishing that sporting component of irish national identity throughout the 32 counties?

I've no problem with a national identity part ,it's the political statement of a 32 County Ireland I have a issue with and only because the GAA claim to be non political .
Yes, note the above aim is the modern goal of the GAA . I for one prefer the original goal(s)
Yes
Yes
Yes, the GAA is more than a sporting and cultural organisation and needs to shed the baggage.

[carribbear]

Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone

...apart from FIFA clearly.

If they had sent in a photo of a chimp eating a banana they would have used that image as the IFA have CLAIMED it was the national flag. I don't think FIFA would have turned around and said no, they'd have to take it at face value.

[A Quinn Martin Production]

The GAA exists to strengthen the national identity in a 32 county Ireland etc ...the GAA does not have any opinion on what is the best form of government for Irish people and nowhere in the rules does it say we should live in a 32 county socialist republic! And I presume were the political map to change in Ireland and the island was divided into 7 different jurisdictions this aim would allow the GAA to continue to run the All Ireland Championships.  The GAA allows London and New York to enter the Championship...I can't see the IFA allowing Bohemians to enter the Irish Cup

[red hander]

I am not displaying double standards. The fact is that an organisation whose alleged aim is to promote soccer, a global sport, and nothing else in an extremely polarised society should not use the flags and emblems peratining to one side of that polarised community, particularly when that same organisation is under the mircoscope for its sectarian past

Analogies with the GAA are completely irrelevant.

So if the IFA went the other way and delcared themselves defenders of Ulster Protestant traditions etc, then it would be ok?

Like it or not the red hand flag is the official flag of the statelet. What else would you have them use?

Wrong... the flag in question is completely unofficial and has never been formally adopted.  The official flag is the St Patrick's saltire, which appears on the butcher's apron.  If the bastardised red hand Star of David we're the lost tribe of Israel shitty rag was the official flag of the statelet, it would have a presence on the butcher's apron.  It is a loyalist invention .... and I don't have to 'like it or not'

[Maguire01]

Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone

...apart from FIFA clearly.

If they had sent in a photo of a chimp eating a banana they would have used that image as the IFA have CLAIMED it was the national flag. I don't think FIFA would have turned around and said no, they'd have to take it at face value.

Regardless of whether or not FIFA attempt to verify the validity of a particular flag, they have recognised it.

[A Quinn Martin Production]

Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone

...apart from FIFA clearly.

If they had sent in a photo of a chimp eating a banana they would have used that image as the IFA have CLAIMED it was the national flag. I don't think FIFA would have turned around and said no, they'd have to take it at face value.

Regardless of whether or not FIFA attempt to verify the validity of a particular flag, they have recognised it.

FIFA is a group of football associations...the UN it ain't!